# Why do some SAHM's insist they have to shop at Walmart?



## fourgrtkidos

I am not trying to be critical. I am just really trying to understand why I keep seeing posts that say in order to continue to be a SAHM they have to shop at Walmart. I have several SAHM friends and I have fairly low incomes with alot of kids and we manage to stay away from WM.

Why do you _have_ to shop somewhere that really does so much damage to children, women and families? I really want to know.

Can't you buy second hand? if money is the issue?

Thanks, Michelle


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## Laurel

Well, I am not a big fan of Walmart though I do shop there sometimes. In my case, it's because Walmart is literally the only store in town. We have a few grocery stores, hardware stores, a drug store, etc. But there is no other place in town to buy clothing, household goods, or the myriad of other things Walmart sells. When I can I try to go into the city (40 minutes away) because I do prefer to shop at other places. But when I need something in a hurry, Walmart is my only choice.

Oops! I just reread the OP and realized that my reasons had nothing to do with financial, so my post is probably completely irrelevant!


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## Summertime Mommy

Well, I can give you my situation. In my town, there are 2 grocery stores, a Walmarta few dollar stores a couple pharmacies and a JC Penney.We try to get most of our household good from the grocery store or the dollar stores around here, but if my child needs clothes or aomething along those lines, I will go to Walmart. I don't have enough money to pay for clothes and shoes and such at a department store, and I have not learned how to sew well enough to even attempt to make anything, so for those occassions I will go to Walmart. We try to avoid it is muxh as possible, but it is not entirely avoidable for us.


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## alliwenk

I despise WalMart and would never shop there...BUT I'm lucky enough to be able to spend extra time (and money) doing business with locally owned businesses or more "responsible" chains (like Whole Foods, etc.) I see the necessity of shopping there as a part of a continuous cycle of poverty and dependence. Think about it: Wal Marts especially flourish in smaller towns where they are basically the only game in town (I saw this first hand in the late 80's in the tiny Texas town where I went to high school). They undercut prices so that they put other smaller stores out of business. They hire people at just above minumum wage and keep their working hours low enough so that they aren't eligible for Wal Mart's overpriced "benefits". It just seems that they create the kind of situation that makes people dependent upon them. So, although I won't shop there, I can see why other people are put into a situation where they have little other choice.

Allison


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## momsgotmilk4two

Well, I basically said that on the other thread so I'll answer. It's not so much that I have to shop at Walmart in particular as my need to get the best deal on whatever it is that I'm buying. I buy the meat that is on sale for any given week (at the grocery store, not Walmart), I buy a lot of clothes for my kids at Target because they are much cheaper than dept. stores, etc. Sometimes I will go to Walmart for paper towels, laundry detg., t.p., etc. because it is cheaper, sometimes by a few dollars, than the grocery store. I don't really have the luxery of going to Whole Foods and spending $4 on 6 rolls of organic recycled t.p. or some such nonsense, nor $30 on a onesie made from organic cotton for the baby to be. So for the most part, yes, I can avoid Walmart, but are the other stores I'm shopping at (Target, Ralphs, Old Navy) any better? As far as I know, dept. stores, Gap, other expensive clothing stores and Target do not pay thier workers a living wage or offer great benefits either. I even remember Gap having been accused of having sweatshops overseas a few years back. So where are we supposed to shop? Is it anywhere but Walmart? There is a serious lack of small independantly run stores that are anywhere in the vicinity of reasonably priced in my area. The only clothing stores I can think of that are independantly run in my area are wildly expensive (like a boutique that sells children's p.j's for $80). Um, I don't think so. I will spend a couple extra bucks on say, books or cd's from a local bookstore, but why should I spend $3 extra dollars on laundry detg. from Ralphs as opposed to Walmart when they are both big corporations?


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## bubbles

I am fortunate to have many other options and don't shop at WalMart. However, I know that not everyone has many options. I don't know if you shop there or not, but it is very, very cheap! You can really make your dollar go far and provide for your families needs. I wish that everyone had good options, but I know that the prices, availability, and selection are all a major draw for those that don't have a lot to spend.


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## fourgrtkidos

Ok Walmart is cheap but what about buying at yard sales and consignment or thrift stores?


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## magemom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourgrtkidos*
Ok Walmart is cheap but what about buying at yard sales and consignment or thrift stores?










Never seen TP at a garage sale.







: sorry, i had to.

Dh likes one kind of hair gel. I get that at Wal-Mart. (can't find it anywhre else) Other than that, I try super hard to stay out. A locally owned grocery is opening up closer to us and I can't wait. I like to shop at their old location and plan to start at their new location. Less gas!

Clothes are from the 2x a year mega consignment shop or mail order/gift. No children's thrift stores in town, and I haven't bought anything new for me in a year except 1 pair of maternity pants.

Yes, Walmart is super cheap, but you get what you pay for. I need my kids clothes to last through 2 seasons- not happening at Wal-Mart. I do not want to spend all day inside their store trying to get out for the crowds. I am trying to think of something there I can't get elsewhere other than the hair gel.

Our farmer's market is 8-12 on Saturdays during soccer season.







: But I don't get my produce from Wal-Mart.


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## momsgotmilk4two

I bought almost all of the boys baby clothes at consignment shops, but try finding them in size 3T and larger and it's not so easy. The Goodwills that I've looked at have only horribly run down clothes in those sizes since so many people will sell the few nice ones that they have left on ebay. And in my experience, ebay isn't that great a bargain for kids clothes once the shipping has been factored in. Maybe I'm missing something, but I have seen clothes on ebay go for MORE than they would in the store once the shipping is factored in.


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## Avonlea

I don't shop at Hell-mart because I LIKE it. I shop at that black hole because I cannot afford to go other places.

Here is an expmle. I need dishwasher soap. I can pay $1.97 at wal-mart for a box of this that will last me almost a month. OR I can pay $3.89 at Safeway Or $2.99 at Freed Meyers OR $3.50 at Thriftway OR $3.99 at Albertsons Or$3.78 at Roths. Now, at these other places and pices I have mentioned..it is the size of box that will only last me two weeks. So then I will have to buy the next larger box..so just add another dollar to every price I have listed.

This price comparison applies to pretty much every product we use. For Example, Cat food at Wal-mart is $7.47 for a 40lb bag. I have four cats, and they would like to have food. If I buy 40lbs of catfood at the feed store I will have to pay about $10.00 for it. If I go to the grocery stores listed..it is always over the price from wal-mart.

Toilet paper costs me about $4.64 for enough to last me 2 months.

I buy disposable diapers as i don't have many cloth AND because my son pees very heavily in his sleep I buy over night type pants for him. Diapers at wal-mart are $5.74 for a weeks worth for Emily, and a package of 17 overnight pull ups for Paul is $9. something..cannot recall the exact change amount. I know if I bought diapers for Emily at Safeway it would be roughly 13.00 for a weeks worth. Think about that .The choice between $5.74, and $13.00 for the same amount of a product. Which one would you choose if your weekly grocery and etc. budget was about $125.00 ??

yes, I realize how awful a place wal-mart is. But right now, that is the way things are. I am glad to know you and your friends do well enough in YOUR area to avoid having to go to Wal-mart. My hat is off to you alll.

However, this is my reality. I have options of other stores and they cost a considerable mount more. I spend every week searching throiugh the sales adds,.carefully making out my list, trying to spread my money out and buy things that we relly must have, and also trying to save about 10 or 15 dollars so we can go to the pool and swim or somewhere else 'fun' for my son. I mean, just because we don't hvae a lot of money does not mean he has to miss out on stuff just so I can join the " I would NEVER shop THERE!" club.

I assume you are not trying to judge, but the way you stated the title relly has me feeling very judged and a little angry. I don't ENJOY going to wal-mart, it makes my stomach hurt being in there and I hate the entire thing..but when I have to keep with in a budget then either we go to wal-mart and have enough stuff to make it through the week or month or what ever, or we go elsewhere and run out of stuff and then we can just go stand in line with the rest of the struggling people and wait for our box of food. Or even more fun, borrow toilet paper from family. Gee, what fun that would be.

I am glad you do not have to enter wal-amrt. i wish I could avoid it, and I try to not go more than twice a month...but please understand that you have to do things at times to save money..even if they are not that great.

And if you don't like me using disposable diapers, then please feel free to send me some large cloth ones..because i have a few but not enough to go past about 3 days and i cannot afford to get any more. Pleaes don't think i enjoy the darn things any more than the next person.

I do what I must to get by and if I could do better I would.

ps. i also do shop at the local goodwill, the kiwanis , the local resale shop, and any yardsale I can get too....but if I cannot find it used, then my next option is wal-mart..sorry. failure once more i guess.


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## Boobiemama

I do all my shopping at walmart. They have a super WM here and we get all our groceries there. I dont buy clothes there tho, I go to the thrift store or I get theings from my friend.
WM is LOTS cheapre than albertsons. I am not going to go the another store that is more expensive just because so many people say Walmart is evil.

We are very poor now. IN the old days, a couple years ago, I shopped only at henrys, a whole foods market. And if $$ permitted it, I would drive 45 mins to the co-op to get organic foods.
But $$ does not permit it. So in the meantime I shop at WM. call me bad, but I like WM and have no problem going there. I am tired of reading things saying that those of us who do shop at WM are terrible people.


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## Meiri

Not every necessity is available second hand.

Why don't you take those posters' word that this is the best they can do and don't have the options that you have?

And occasionally there's something decent at WM that is Not available elsewhere for more....


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## Summertime Mommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourgrtkidos*
Ok Walmart is cheap but what about buying at yard sales and consignment or thrift stores?

I try to buy at those places, but the reality is, that you can't always find everything you need at a thrift store or yard sale. or at least not the ones around here.


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## magemom

FWIW, Albertson's is the store leaving town- maybe they will leave your area next? I can not belive how expensive they are! Surprise surprise they aren't doing well??


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## Changed

Is there something I missed?


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## phathui5

Quote:

Sometimes I will go to Walmart for paper towels, laundry detg., t.p., etc. because it is cheaper, sometimes by a few dollars, than the grocery store. I don't really have the luxery of going to Whole Foods and spending $4 on 6 rolls of organic recycled t.p. or some such nonsense,
That's us.


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## littleaugustbaby

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
I've read a few of these threads about walmart. I just don't get it. I can see why some boycott it for the NIP issues but I do not accept the other reasons I have heard for this. Wages ect.... No one IS FORCED to work there. Yes, it may be their best option and pay crapola but it's still optional. I've known alot of people who worked at walmart and no one ever complained. I guess I just don't really understnad why I should spend extra money when walmart employees think it's good enough to put up with. If they didn't i'm sure they could find the door. Is there something I missed?









Well said!

As far as shopping thrift/consignment shops and yard sales goes, sometimes it's really hard to find stuff secondhand, and some people just don't *want* to buy secondhand. Also, as a few other people have mentioned, there are some things that you can't buy secondhand, like TP and other household items.

Overall, WalMart has lower prices on just about everything. It's also the type of store that carries just about everything, and that makes it really convenient. It's so much easier to be able to buy everything that you need in one place, rather than having to drive all over town to several places, especially if you're a busy mom.


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## weebitty2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
I've read a few of these threads about walmart. I just don't get it. I can see why some boycott it for the NIP issues but I do not accept the other reasons I have heard for this. Wages ect.... No one IS FORCED to work there. Yes, it may be their best option and pay crapola but it's still optional. I've known alot of people who worked at walmart and no one ever complained. I guess I just don't really understnad why I should spend extra money when walmart employees think it's good enough to put up with. If they didn't i'm sure they could find the door. Is there something I missed?











I've worked for WalMart before, and various places that "treat women and children like crap et c et c" ..
I guess it's just subjective. Not ALL walmart stores are anti-NIP, and not ALL walmart employees will say anything about it. It's the few that do who give the whole a bad name. Our front-end supervisor used to bring in his twins on his days off so their mama (who worked in ladies' clothing) could nurse the munchkins, instead of him giving them bottles.

Yep, the wages are crappy. But you know what? They're not that hot anywhere else, either. VERY FEW companies that provide retail or grocery services pay a living wage - as a matter of fact, the only one that I can think of is Trader Joe's. When your only options are $7.25 an hour or food stamps/TANF/welfare (and that only for a limited time), what choice do you have? Please please please stop blaming the companies for the country's lack of support for its' people.

For some people, it IS the only option. I'd love to shop more at our local natural foods store, but honestly? With 5 kids and another on the way, DH, Me, two dogs, a mortgage, and regular monthly bills.. I can't afford the $7 a lb for flour - or even the $10.99 at the grocery store for 20lbs. I go to walmart, and get 20lbs of GOOD flour .. for $3.99.

Why should I pay $1 a roll for tp, or even $.50 a roll for tp, when I can get *20* rolls for $3.00? We're potty training three kids right now, and we go through a LOT of it.

WalMart as a company was really crappy to me, I'll be the first to admit that. I was fired for a dress code violation in my 90-day trial period. But honestly? That's MY fault. I chose not to remove or cover a piercing with a band-aid because I'm allergic to medical grade adhesive.

*sigh*
I REALLY wish that people would stop letting the minority give a bad name to ALL ..

Being a conscientous consumer is a good thing, but if it comes to boycotting a company or feeding/clothing my kids .. My kids win every time.

OT : littleaugustbaby - i







the quote in your sig!


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## AmandasMom

I"m a bit taken aback by the tone of the title of this thread. I think it's pretty crappy to judge someone by where they shop. That being said, I don't feel the need to justify where I shop or why to anyone, but I will answer your question anyway. I do most of my shopping at Sam's. Does that count as Walmart since they are owned by the same people? We are on a very tight budget, I make most of what we eat from bulk items from Sam's. Also get TP there. What I can't buy at Sam's I buy at Walmart because you can't beat the prices. I have 4 grocery stores (Publix, Kroger, another Kroger and Food Lion) all in the same area as the Walmart Super Center. Literally across the street and next door. The prices at Walmart for food are at least half of what I would have to pay at the other stores. Sometimes I have to go to Kroger (slightly cheaper then Publix) and get vegetarian items because unfortunately Walmart doesn't have what I need. I also go to thrift stores, but some of them are really scarry, and it's hard to find any decent toddler clothes. I have bought all of the new baby's clothes at thrift stores. Just yesterday we went to the Goodwill outlet downtown where you can buy clothes for $1.49 per pound. I walked out with 12 nice outfits for the baby for $1.60! Some things I just don't like to buy used. Like pots and pans, dishes, toys. So I go to Walmart, where my limited dollars go farther.


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## Bernie

Well, I am a SAHM, not poor by any means and enjoy the whole Walmart experience so much that we will actually travel across the border to Germany just for that. I will also occasionally go to thrift stores for clothing, as DD is growing like a weed, so nothing fits for long (I also love searching consignment shops and ebay for "gently used" designer clothing). I don't think that it is a matter of money as much as a matter of being sensible with your money. I have to agree with some of the others. No one is forced to work there, and I love to get the most for my money.

Just my 2 cents.


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## grisandole

When I lived in cities/suburbs I rarely, if ever, shopped at WalMart. I went to Trader Joes for most of my food, and then farmers markets and chain grocer for the rest. Costco for TP and other bulk buying. Thrift and consignment stores for clothes. I had access to all these places, and our money situation was decent.

Now we live in rural Arizona. Like other posters to this thread, WalMart is the only game in town. There aren't any family owned shops or grocers here. There are "botique" clothing stores, but they are very expensive. We are in a very poor county, and the thrift stores here are a joke- they hardly have anything! Our wal-mart is a super walmart and the grocery prices are way less than my other choices- Basha's or Safeway.

Walmart is a crappy company. But Safeway isn't much better- they treat their employees pretty bad as well (at least the one here). I don't see why spending more at Safeway is better somehow.

Our walmart is NIP friendly- I see women nursing there all the time. Actually, our walmart is the friendliest, most well-run wal mart I've ever been to. Not sure why- if it's management or what, but it is.

Kristi


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## Meiri

While questioning the judgmentalness of the whole anti-WM at any level of use concept, I have to say I can't agree with the "no one is forced to work there" concept either.

When your unemployment's about to run out and no one is hiring, you just may be Forced to work somewhere that you would not Choose to work IF YOU HAD THE OPTION. DH's working at the place he works falls into that "take this job or risk having nothing to live on" catagory, and while it's a far cry from a Walmart job (lab with decent pay), he did not have a choice at the time if we were going to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table.

Once Wallie world has succeeded in running the competition out of a town, or if they are the only such store in a rural area in the first place (parts of WV fall into this catagory), then they may well be the ONLY job opportunity available. I don't know about you all, but I don't call that a CHOICE.

ETA: I wish we had a Costco within reasonable driving distance. I'd drop Sam's Club for that in a heartbeat. Sunday Morning did a story on CEO pay this morning and Costco has a policy of the CEO getting only 10 times what the highest paid Floor Personel gets paid. That equates to $350,000/year. Compare that to the millions CEO "stars"







are getting at other companies that aren't doing nearly so well! They pay their employees more than the WM's and such too.







Unfortunately, the closest one to us would be just about a half tank trip, even with our little cars.


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## Peppamint

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grisandole*
Now we live in rural Arizona. Like other posters to this thread, WalMart is the only game in town. There aren't any family owned shops or grocers here. There are "botique" clothing stores, but they are very expensive. We are in a very poor county, and the thrift stores here are a joke- they hardly have anything! Our wal-mart is a super walmart and the grocery prices are way less than my other choices- Basha's or Safeway.

Walmart is a crappy company. But Safeway isn't much better- they treat their employees pretty bad as well (at least the one here). I don't see why spending more at Safeway is better somehow.

Ditto on the small town stuff.









Over the last year, our consumption of paper products has dramatically reduced, so we use a package or two of TP per month (dd and ds use cloth TP and I use cloth TP when I don't grab paper TP out of habit, dh uses paper TP) and a roll of paper towels for greasy messes per month.

I do shop at walmart occassionally, but don't see them much, if any, more evil than Target, Kmart etc. I prefer Target for aesthetic reasons, but Target is over a 30 minute drive away.









And another example, our contact disinfectant is $8 at walmart and over $10 at CVS Pharmacy. IMO, CVS isn't locally owned either so why should I pay $2 more just to avoid shopping at walmart?







They don't sell it at my health food store, although I could ask the locally owned pharmacy to carry it, although I don't know if they would or not (I'll have to ask though!







). See, I'm continually finding new ways to do things!









I find for me, it's another one of those things that takes time... and I'm often fortunate enough that MIL and my mom occassionally buy made in USA shirts for the kids from places like Cracker Barrel and I can find pretty good deals on quality clothes at Kohl's when they have those clearance sales. There is a good children's second hand store 30 minutes away, but I don't make it there very often unfortunately (I usually end up spending an 8 hour day away running errands in the city as it is







).

I get better all the time... but still shop at walmart once a month or so. I'm doing my best and I think making the effort is what counts. Maybe someday the moms who have to shop at wm for financial reasons will be able to make choices for reasons other than financial _necessity_. Some weeks we don't get to buy Organic because our grocery budget is tighter than normal. Other weeks we do okay and I buy the Organic that is available.


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## polka123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmandasMom*
I"m a bit taken aback by the tone of the title of this thread. I think it's pretty crappy to judge someone by where they shop. That being said, I don't feel the need to justify where I shop or why to anyone, but I will answer your question anyway. Walmart, where my limited dollars go farther.

ITA









I don't feel I'm bad b/c we go to place like this!
Why isn't Kmart mentioned at all.
Their just as bad !
My adult DD worked both places & likes Walmart better even tho' the pay was a tad lower.
BTW- I've never had any trouble NIP in either palce -in fact, both place shave been NIP friendly !

I buy most of my babes clothes off EBAY.


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## TiredX2

I do not boycott WalMart because of their NIP problems.

There are lists and lists of other reasons. Personally, I see big differences between Wal-Mart and their competitors. And, sometimes, going after the "big guy" is the best way (just like w/Nestle).

JMO,
Kay


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## Meiri

Quote:

Like I said It might not be the best choice or one that you want to make but all the same it's a choice. If that's the only job in town, that sucks but then again *no one is forcing you to live there*. ... They all choose to work there like it or not. Just my opinion.
And if a family is that hard up for funds, how pray tell will they be able to afford to move?

Life is full of choices, I agree, but sometimes the choices you are suggesting are Not available. I've been lucky in my life to have had choices, including supporting DH in his decision to take the job he's got rather than gambling on something better coming along, including knowing we could get help(and have) from my parents, but I do not assume that everyone has those same choices or resources available.


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## Meiri

Quote:

BTW, if you were that hard up per say, wht would you do if walmart wasn't hiring?
I don't know what we'd do, not having ever been in such a position. I suspect the people that poor in areas where WM is the only merchant are the ones on welfare/TANF shopping there to stretch a buck. What they do after that? go hungry, it happens in this country.


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## IdentityCrisisMama

There is 'choice' then there's 'choice', YK? You must know.

That said, I do think it's a good idea to raise consciousness about bad businesses. I've shopped at Wal-Mart only once in my life but there are still things that I could do better with as far as supporting positive businesses.

So, I think this is about both things ~ understanding the circumstances, which persuade a person to shop at Wal-Mart AND being conscious about their policies.

BTW, I don't go for the "no one is forced to work there" logic either. I don't think the majority of sweatshop workers are literally forced to work either.


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## sincitymama

People shop at walmart because that's where they are in life. If some of you have the time, money, energy, resources, and know-how to never go there, and know and understand all the reasons you feel nobody should, good for you. The rest of us are working on it.

I don't like spending my money there, but sometimes we do. Because it's the best price, or it's the easiest way to get everything I need in one go instead of dragging an infant all over creation. I think giving my money to walmart stinks, but I also think giving my money to just about any big chain/corporation stinks.

I also worked there, and really am constantly baffled by everyones railing on about how horribly they treat their employees.
I've worked in retail for years, and from my experience and talking to coworkers, it's actually one of the better places.

Yes, I just said that walmart was the best retail job I've had. The pay was better than anywhere else (more than a dollar over min. wage starting) and the benefits were also the best I've ever seen or heard of for a cashier or salesperson (ok, except cosco, they're supposedly awsome).

It's not that I was getting rich, or had benefits to rival what we get now through my husbands computer job, of course not. It's RETAIL! People expect to walk in off the street with zero education or experience, unload boxes from the truck, and get pay and benefits comparable to software programming or management or nursing, and that's just so unrealistic and, IMHO, quite silly.

So like I said if you have the ability, and care about it enough, to never shop there, that's wonderful. And I don't even mean it sarcastically, that really is good.

The rest of us will keep on doing the best WE can. Maybe we just have a different focus to our lives right now, maybe a lot of us (like me) are working really hard to change our whole way of life and can only change so much at one time while expecting it to stick.

So, there you go. My two cents.


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## mom2x

I don't shop at walmart or sam's for soooo many reasons. Money is always real tight at our house and some people would say that I'm shooting myself in the foot, but I just won't go there. I even have a free business membership to sam's (through a family member). I've found other ways to make up the difference. Oh, and I am a sahm. That is just what works for me.


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## Persephone

I know I'll prolly get flamed for this, but I really feel passionately about it.

I wrote this in my LJ after another recent Wal Mart thread. I didn't feel it was appropriate at the time, but now I do.

"So on a board I post on, there's this discussion about whether people shop at Wal Mart. A lot of people (including me) think it's evil. And some don't, and that's fine, I don't care. But what gets me is the people who are like, "Well, I don't like WalMart, but I have no choice but to shop there." WTF??? Where in the world does someone live that there are NO stores around other than WalMart? What did they do before WalMart? And I know that WalMart has cheap stuff, but at what price to the community?

So, I started thinking about the goods you can buy at WalMart, and how to get them cheaply from other (sustainable) sources.

Food is a biggie: Well, there are the OTHER stores, Kroger, etc. Not particularly sustainable, but anything is better than WalMart. There are also farmer's markets, and growing your own. Sure, some of these take energy (and gas, if your farmer's market is far away), but you'd be supporting local people, and that's really important in a time when lots of local buinesses are being wiped out by these huge corporate conglomerates. Also, you can make better food choices. If you eat more grains (whole grains here, not wonderbread, people), fruits and veggies, and beans, then you'd be able to afford more food. Boxed stuff is expensive. You're paying for a label and for packaging. If you HAVE to shop at Wal Mart, you could just buy produce there... it's so cheap, that WalMart doesn't really make a profit off of it. But if you shop in season, and buy loss leaders, then you can usually get stuff for the same price or less than you'd spend at WalMart.

Right. Moving on.

Clothing: This is one of the easiest, IMO, to get cheaply. First, look at what you own. Do you really NEED all that? Yes? Do you REALLY need anything new? Ok, fine. Shop first at garage and yard sales. This is stuff people don't want anymore. They'll do ANYTHING to get rid of it. Usually you can bargain an already cheap price down. Nothing cute at the garage sales? Thrift store shopping is the next best choice. That or consignment stores. You'll have to sift through more at thrift stores to find something good, unless you have a gift with a sewing machine or a really good eye. But consignment stores often have good name brand clothes for a great price. At one near my house, I get American Eagle shirts for $6. It's where all the rich kids go to drop off their week old shirts they're bored of. Barring that, try the dept stores at sale time. And buy off season. If you buy next summer's clothes at the end of the season, then you can get 70% off some really good clothes. Even plus sized me has been able to find decent stuff then. My fave store for that is Kohl's. If you're keeping track, 70% off of a dept store price will NOT make the store a profit, so regardless of business practices, this is a good time to shop.

Beauty Supplies: This is a bit more tricky. I just make my own. There are tons of easy recipes out there for things to clean your face, body and teeth with. And my biggest beauty product is water, which is virtually free. I rarely use anything else to clean my body or face with. Also, don't forget the second part of the three R's. Reduce, REUSE, recycle. Things like menstrual pads and TP can be made from cloth, and then you don't have to keep buying new! If you cut costs in places like this, then you'll have enough money to spend on the things you can't make, like shampoo or razors. (Of course, you could always go no shampoo and quite shaving if you were REALLY poor.)

Cleaning supplies: Make them. Seriously, why even buy these from the store at all?

Electronics: Go secondhand. Seriously, with technology moving as fast as it is, there is good stuff out there. We just got a router for half the price of a new one from a secondhand computer store. Same with videos and CDs. Of course, with videos at least, you can rent them too. If you love it so much that you'll watch it enough to make owning it worthwhile, then go ahead and buy it. But not from WalMart. With CDs, all I have to say is MP3.

Dishes/Kitchen Supplies: Yard sales, and secondhand stores. I swear, I've found the BEST stuff that way.

Garden supplies: If you live in an agricultural area AT ALL, you'll be able to find locally owned garden supply stores. Use them, and don't tell them you can find the same stuff at WalMart for cheaper. They know that. Go in and tell them you support local busniess.

I can't think of anything more that WalMart has. If there's something I missed, I'm still sure that you have other options than to get it at WalMart. Check the Yellow Pages.

Don't forget the internet. Lots of people are selling things on Ebay and on their own sites. Googling for something will link you to lots of people who are making the very thing you're looking for. And you can afford it when you save all that money on clothes and food!

If you don't think you have these kinds of places near you, I encourage you to open your eyes as you drive down the road. You'll see the neatest lil stores. I've found some gems just driving by on the way to something else. Small businesses are still out there, struggling. It's up to us to find them and give them our business. Then they can thrive, and our communities will have flavor and diversity again. I'm willing to pay for that. "


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## mom2x

Thank you Persephone!


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## Peppamint

second-hand clothes: I have had very little luck with this... the kids clothes are usually formula or kool-aid stained, yes, even infant clothing.


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## Alkenny

Ethics aside, I don't care for Wal-mart. Grocery-wise, they are the most expensive place around here, hardly any sales and the "coupon police" make it not worth it niether. For clothes, I've found that Penney's is just as cheap if you watch what you're buying.


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## China white

I think it's great to educate people about companys and their policies - knowledge is power.







That being said, to question another person because of where they shop & why they shop there is never going to result in something positive. I *know* the OP wasn't intending to come across as judgmental, but the title and post give that impression. When these mamas say that saving 2.00 here and there makes a huge difference in their abilities to feed their families, take their word for it and let that be the end of it. It should be good enough that you are able avoid shopping there. JMHO


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## Peppamint

Quote:


Originally Posted by *China white*
I think it's great to educate people about companys and their policies - knowledge is power.







That being said, to question another person because of where they shop & why they shop there is never going to result in something positive. I *know* the OP wasn't intending to come across as judgmental, but the title and post give that impression. When these mamas say that saving 2.00 here and there makes a huge difference in their abilities to feed their families, take their word for it and let that be the end of it. It should be good enough that you are able avoid shopping there. JMHO

I missed a couple bills last month, so we are hard up for money this month. We had $20 for groceries this week, so yes if an item is $2 less at walmart- I'm going to shop there.


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## Changed

That's all based around money.


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## Peppamint

what is HEB?


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## Changed

It's a grocery store chain in the southern US.


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## Aura_Kitten

i've only skimmed the other replies but wanted to add my 2 cents ~

we're very low income. we don't shop at hel*mart... because it's not the cheapest store around! they SAY they are, but they aren't ~ comparitively, the sales at the local grocery stores, and k-mart, are cheaper than hel*mart. they also sell crap that breaks very soon after you buy it, clothes that don't hold up in the wash, and don't even get me started on their business practices.

i buy second-hand, reuse everything, and get things like tp, toothpaste, deodorant, etc cheaper or on sale elsewhere.

there's no reason to shop at The Big Scary Grey Box.


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## 2much2luv

Interesting thread. My dh and I just decided, last night actually, that we were going to bite the bullet and stop shopping at WalMart completely.








I think I can agree with the op and say that for *most* people it is possible to not shop at WalMart. Easy? no. But possible. WalMart is the only major store in our town and is cheaper on everything, but I am starting to feel strongly about not shopping there so we will find a way to avoid it. We are by no means rich, btw.
The things we do to live without walmart-cloth diaper, cloth tp, unpaper towels, no make up, shop consignment, shop clearance online







for clothes, when we need to replace an electronic (TV DVD Computer) we will order online or do without, columbia house for movies, clip coupons for other grocery stores, shop sales, shop less, cook more whole foods (cheaper), blah blah blah.
Anyway, I think what the OP was saying is that she gets kind of annoyed with people saying the *have* to shop there when most people actually *could* not shop there if they felt so inclined. So maybe people could say they find it easier to shop at Walmart.???


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## MamaMonica

I don't like Walmart and have never shopped there. We have one and I've never been in it. I'm a SAHM.

I don't buy paper towels, napkins, baby wipes, disposable diapers or pads.

A bottle of shampoo lasts us 6 mos or more. The basics I get at the health food store. I refill soap dispensers with diluted Dr. Bronners now- use water to wash the kids hair most baths.

All that cuts down on the need to buy a lot of stuff.


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## Aura_Kitten

monnie makes a good point ~ when you decrease consumption, you decrease the need for much of what people say they "must" buy at wal*mart... or anywhere else.


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## TiredX2

That is the tactic I have been trying to take (of course, then DH goes and has a hay day at Costco







). I try really hard to *know* I actually want/need/will use any item before I get it (even if its free). All the free plastic junk is costing us more than we can afford!


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## *Erin*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
I guess we will have to disagree.

yep. you're coming from a very comfortable vantage point. we aren't seeing eye to eye.

ita with what you said avonlea.







that's why we go there too.

there are sacrifices i'm willing to make and there are sacrifices that i am not going to make. i use makeup, paper towel, paper napkins, toilet paper and shampoo.

we live way to close to the cuff to spend extra money we don't have on alternatives right now. the prices of food and detergent, tp and other staples are OUTRAGEOUS at our hfs. i do shop for our produce at bi lo, where at least it's mostly locally grown, and organic is affordable. and i shop at kroger for canned, refridgerated and boxed organic stuff. but there's no way i can feed us all, keep our clothes, house and backsides clean without some wal mart supplementing.

though i admire other posters resourcefullness and hard work searching out cheap alternatives to the evil empire, i'd rather spend the time with my dd playing or swimming or reading. she's extremely demanding and i just don't have it in me to do it right now. i feel good if get thru the day and have enough energy to eat dinner and shower, and get on here for a while. i feel bad about it, but we should be in a better place in another 2 months. then we won't shop there.

i don't feel evil at all. i feel like i'm doing the best i can do right now.


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## fourgrtkidos

I would like to say I am sorry the OP came across as judgemental. However, I was trying to understand why ppl still shop at Walmart. After reading the posts I can see that it is because some of you don't know about some of their worst practices. I am also a SAHM, we have 4 kids living with us and a stepson to support. My husband makes less than 34,000$ a year.

I have been able to find other ways to stretch my dollar , than go to WM or Target, Kmart, JC Penny, Sears, or a bunch of others. I do not boycott because of the way they treat in store employees although I do not like it. I do not boycott because I disagree with how some stores treat NIP mothers (customers) although I do not like it.

I will not spend my mother there because WM gets most of its goods from oversea sweatshops. And sorry but one poster wrote she doesn't believe ppl are forced to work in sweatshops. There are Asian workers here in the US under our governments care awaiting to testify to the house or senate about how they are tricked and then forced to stay in WM sponsored sweatshops.They are beaten, watched in the bathroom, given anphetamins and forced to work 48 hr shifts to meet deadlines, locked in, dorms in the factory and can't get home. The worse thing is some are brought to US teritories like Somoa from for example Vietnam. How do you escape that? How do you get home to Vietnam from Somoa? How do you, the intelligent and informed mothers here at MDC not know of things like when children laborers died in a sweatshop fire because they were locked in forced to work more than 12 hour shifts to produce Cabbage Patch dolls for Walmart before Christmas? My child does not need anything soooo badly that it is ok for me not to think of where the point of origin for manufacture is; and care about someone elses child halfway around the world and if that child's childhood is being spent in a swaetshop, not in school, not playing, to make my kids childhood full of unimportant material things. You should see the pictures of 7 yr old girls hands swollen from working at a loom to make cheap rugs for us, here in the land of plenty.

It is wrong for us not to find ways to provide for our families without hurting someone else along the way.

I do not think any mother who has to shop there or chooses to shop there is "bad", just uninformed or misinformed. Maybe doesn't know the hidden price to our world, environment, families to shop Walmart, Target or Kmart, etc........ Many of you wouldn't accept someone saying we feed our baby koolaid instead of formula. You'd jump on that person , because you know better, even if formula is more expensive than koolaid. You'd say BF not FF. No circ, not circ. Parent with gentleness and kindness not corporel punishment . Because you know better. I am just trying to get people to put there money where their mouth is, because money talks. If ppl didn't demand more, cheaper we could avoid burdening the world with our consumerism.

People are suffering, so that we can have more, cheaper. I just don't think it's right and really don't think you do either. Maybe you just don't see your options.


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## fourgrtkidos

Please *check this out.* http://www.sweatshops.org/scorecard.html


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## *Erin*

fourgrtkidos, you are totally right, and that is my biggest biggest problem with wm. we only buy food and paper stuff, we don't consume the stuff that is made outside the us. i know that is no absolution, but i am totally aware of the origin of all that cheap plastic stuff, and all the cheap clothes. we don't buy any of it.


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## *Erin*

i meant to also say thank you for the link, and for talking about sweatshop labor.


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## IdentityCrisisMama

I'm the one who talked about sweatshop labor. I'm educated about it and you misunderstood me. I was commenting about a statement that US workers are not "forced" to work for low wages, which I *disagree with*. I do believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the majority of sweatshop laborers are not *literally* forced to work either but they are coerced and manipulated nonetheless. I'm on "your side", mama.

I think we can *all* do better and I believe the other posters when they say they try. I also agree that lowering consumption and buying from locals is probably one of the best solutions (and they have *SO* many additional benefits!). It's baby steps for me. Personally, I worry that Target, Ikea and H&M are going to take over the world and I'm now making the next step to avoid those.

Also, an awareness campaign about Wal-Mart is a great idea but it seems a touch like an ambush to ask people why they must shop at Wal-Mart first. Like I said, there are two issues - one is understanding the circumstances as to why someone shops there and I think that is genuinely a nice thing to try to understand. Perhaps we're due for another thread about Wal-Mart practices.

You know the cloth toilet paper thing got me to thinking of where I'm "scattered" with some consumption issues. Last night, I was realizing that our TP consumption is really low and I could probably make the leap to no-TP. The thing is, is that we have much greater consumption problems thn TP, which I feel I should be working on first.


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## JessicaS

I do not shop at Walmart.

That said, I live in a large city and have lots of better options. Costco is actually closer to me than walmart and there is a LOVELY farmers market not 5 mins from my house. (YUM) I really have a lot of options that are just as cheap as Walmart so I really don't have much room to talk. And if it is 3 am and I am in dire need of something (er..I dunno what) yeah, I will bite the bullet and go there (if there isn't a 24 hour grocery store that is open and I don't have to drive very much further to get there.)

I don't like Walmart because I don't like how they do buisness. Walmart is one of the ONLY companies that has so many ex employees that refuse to shop there, it is actually affecting their sales.

Frankly anyone that says people have a choice about whether or not to work there knows very very little about working class America. Perhaps you should read Nickle and Dimed on (Not) Getting by in America by Barbara Ehrenreich.


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## fourgrtkidos

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abimommy*
Frankly anyone that says people have a choice about whether or not to work there knows very very little about working class America. Perhaps you should read Nickle and Dimed on (Not) Getting by in America by Barbara Ehrenreich.

this is a great book.

Thanks for reminding us to read or re-read it,
Michelle


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## DebraBaker

One thing I've noticed reading other posts is if you live in a wealthier suburban or wealthy urban area there are a lot of alternatives to shopping at Walmart.

If you live in an impoverished rural area there seems to be no viable alternative to shopping at Walmart.

I live in a wealthy suburb of Philadelphia. We have quite a few upscale resale shops and a couple of decent bottomfeeder thrift shops. You can find good-quality gently used designer clothing there for less $$ than at Walmart.

Also if you shop the sales rack of the GAP you can find clothing much lower priced than Walmart (and all the other lesser evil alternatives to Walmart)

But if you don't live near a mall or close to a wealthy suburb (the source for the good secondhand clothing) you don't have the *option* of buying good quality gently used clothing (and as far as I'm concerned the clothing at ebay becomes expensive when you factor in the shipping costs.)

If you're into natural living you can cut the diaper costs, the paper towel costs and the paper plates-cups costs you can even get rid of pads and tampons but you really can't work your way around toilet paper!!!!

But, relative to the rest of the costs tp is a minor issue.

If I were faced with an extremely tight budget I might shop walmart once in a blue moon for tp and cleaning supplies but I can't imagine buying clothing or electronics there (poor quality)

I think another factor (not judging anyone personally) is how much stuff do we *really* need? I think a lot of cheap poorly made crap sold at walmart is impulse buying rather than meeting a true need.

Debra Baker


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## Changed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DebraBaker*
I think another factor (not judging anyone personally) is how much stuff do we *really* need? I think a lot of cheap poorly made crap sold at walmart is impulse buying rather than meeting a true need.

Debra Baker


Oh that's SOOO true! How many keychain flashights does one person NEED?
They really set up for impulse buying. That's alot of the reason I rarely shop there. With the crowds in our walmart plus the screaming children (not even my own) then the 4 year old in the basket begging for fruit snacks while I drag the stroller behind me... It's all to much to make rational decisions. I get home, unpack the groceries and then wonder what the heck I just spent 300 bucks on!


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## alliwenk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abimommy*
Frankly anyone that says people have a choice about whether or not to work there knows very very little about working class America. Perhaps you should read Nickle and Dimed on (Not) Getting by in America by Barbara Ehrenreich.

Great point abimommy AND great book recommendation! I'm reading "The Working Poor" by David Shipler right now. While not as well written as Ehrenreich's book, it's similar in it's outlook and basically makes the same point about "choice" that several posters are making here.

Allison


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## Lucky Charm

Quote:

the prices of food and detergent, tp and other staples are OUTRAGEOUS at our hfs
Same here. We recently got a Whole foods market, and although i love it, i just cant spend there on any kind of regular basis ( i do go for fruits and veggies sometimes, or a particular item). We have a Wild Oats, and they are wildly expensive too. I have shopped at Safeway, and Cub foods, but its literally 30-40% higher at those stores.

I know that walmart is evil, my husband hates them. But, part of my job is to make the most of mine and my husbands incomes, and although we make a good living, i just cant go into those stores and spend 30-40% more for the same or similar stuff. I cant and wont spend 8 bucks on a small container of raspberries.

Even at walmart prices are creeping up.


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## PapayaVagina

I do shop at Wal-Mart (we have 2 in our town with one being remodeled into a Super Wal-Mart). We actually really like it along with Shop-Ko, Costco, Fred Meyer, etc. I can get really cheap laundry detergent, sandals, socks, film developing, shampoo, toothpaste, etc. Of course, I know what they're EVIL deep down, but I just feel exhausted trying to battle with everything Nestle, Wal-Mart, Johnson and Johnson, McDonald's (almost put our local A&W out of business), Hollywood Video (put 3 GREAT movie rental places out of business in my town), Disney, etc. Everything is EVIL somewhere. I do enjoy supporting smaller businesses when I can, but dang, everything is a big chain now.

Quote:

Walmart is a crappy company. But Safeway isn't much better- they treat their employees pretty bad as well (at least the one here). I don't see why spending more at Safeway is better somehow.
Just a few years ago in the small town that I live in our Safeway remodeled into a HUGE store and Roth's (originally a small town grocery store that did well and expanded more in the area) moved into town and put our 2 other smaller and much nicer markets totally out of business. I see Roth's spreading out all over the place now and smaller grocery stores getting put out of business. I feel like if given the opportunity, any business would turn into a Wal-Mart if it could. It's sad.


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## sohj

First, truth in advertising: (1) I am _not_ a SAHM...as I'm pretty sure all of you know; (2) I am a fanatical recycler and consumption-reducer...as some of you may know--I am the one who even reuses AND then recycles the wires that close the bread bags







; and (3) I am fortunate enough to live in New York City where, although we are getting a HUGE amount of chains, there still are mom-and-pop places. And, (4) I have a partner who really picks up his share of the parenting and working-to-keep-the-household-running tasks. Like, we really split domestic chores and try to organize so no one gets totally run into the ground. (This does fall apart occasionally. On both sides.







Life happens)

All that said, I do spend a lot of time in other places. I am not one of these "urban provincials", OK?

There ARE places with nothing more than a Mall Wart. Really. I've been there. There are places that even have nothing more than one really, really expensive "general store" -- like some towns in South Dakota with high aboriginal populations. Or even some places in upstate NY. And, even if they don't have a Wall-Mart, they've probably already gotten rid of the local mom-and-pop withthe help of OTHER chain stores.

Yeah, in some of these places, if the shopper is willing to drive an extra half hour, _maybe_ there is another store available. Wanna do that in February with probably-should-be-replaced 4-season tires? Nope, me neither. And there is no guarantee that the other place will (a) have what you want or (b) be cheaper ... and now a whole lot of fuel has been used up...not to mention that you better have brought a picnic lunch for yourself and the little one(s).

And, if it were me, well, I am really well-organized. And I lived "out-back" when I was young and the idea of only going shopping once a month or less frequently and doing _that_ with a pickup or a small trailer attached to the ball hitch on the car is not totally foreign. And, I've inherited my father's ability to be totally anal about keeping the car in working order and being prepared for emergencies. [







T Talk to me about what to always keep in _your_ trunk...seasonally adjusted!!







]

BUT, not everyone is as well-organized. It is a skill, not a moral failing.

SO,what to do?

Well, I agree with fourgrtkiddos about the sweatshop problem. I try not to buy products made in countries with lousy worker-protection laws and no enforcement. BUT, there are sweatshops here, too. Lots of those illegal immigrants are brought in to indentured servitude here. It is hard to keep track of this.

I do my best. (Which is all anyone can do.) For example, I buy t-shirts from http://www.americanapparel.net/ ... which, at their store in NY, the prices ARE the same (and on the less-expensive side) as stuff made in Bangladesh and Nicaragua. Makes me wonder who is getting the profits.







. $10 - 12 for a snap-crotch undershirt, for example. Of course, I haven't visited the factory myself, so I guess I don't _know_.

And I think that no one here really LIKES going to the Wall-Mart. I mean, it's not like it has red plush "fainting couches" in the Women's Room and soft music piped in while you shop. :LOL

Once a Wall-Mart (And, yes, they are worse than other on this, Costco and so forth are not so universally pushy about how they compete. Really. Even though they are pretty bad.) has moved in, frequently everyone else gets pushed out because of the loss-leaders and their quantity buying. Wall-Mart OWNS factories abroad. In some cases, there is no "direct" competition for price comparison. They've put a lot of energy and resources into getting rid of the competition, not just competing against them. Then, Wall-Mart effectively owns the town, and can set the rules...INCLUDING LOCAL ZONING & PLANNING RULES AND TAX CODES. This affects your local democracy.

Keeping small business alive in your locality means you keep more local control. They are _removing_ the profits made off of you. With the exception of the low wages they pay, those profits go OUTSIDE OF YOUR AREA. They are not spending their money at your local shoe-repair place, your local garage, your 5 & 10, your diner, restaurant, gas station, flooring store, well-driller, builder, hardware store, lawyer, accountant, etc.

You may think "Well, the employees are still local"....but, think about it, the BOSS isn't. The PROFITS are going elsewhere.

Just food for thought.


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## Cajunmomma

I am trying to cut down my WalMart shopping, but dh loves WalMart because it is so convenient. That being said, for the most part he lets me decide where we shop, although sometimes we end up at WalMart anyway.

We live in an urban area, and there are a lot of huge corporate alternatives to WalMart (Target, Albertson's, Winn-Dixie, etc). In the last 15 years, I've watched a lot of small, local businesses go under because they couldn't compete with the lower prices that WalMart can provide. I think that that's a shame. And I know, that the American way, right? Competition uber alles. But I also know that those local retailers provided for their employees in ways that huge mega-corporations have trouble doing.

I can understand why people shop at different places. We all do the best we can in the situations that we find ourselves in. But I think that the very least we can do is try to educate ourselves about the practices of those companies that we do business with, so that if/when our situations change we can make informed decisions.


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## Avonlea

Thank you DB, that is something I think is not taken into account as well..what area a person lives in can and does affect what selection they may have as far as retail outlets.

Here is what I buy at wal-mart, and why:

Toilet paper( I am not washing my or my husbands poo off of ANYTHING, sorry.)
Dishwasher soap.
Vinegar. (I can get the huge gallon things of white vinegar there for less than anywhere else, and I go through a lot of vinegar.)
Laundry detergant.
Borax.
Dryer sheets( we like them here..)

Cat food, because it is the least exspensive place to get so large a bag, and I have a few cats.

Filters for our fish tank. Wal-mart is the ONLY place I have found the type of filters we need to have for our fish tank.

Canned Beans for meals.98 cents a can...I can make chili and have enough left over to freeze for less than $5.00 worth of canned beans and a can of chopped tomatoes.

Canned spaghetti sauce.99 cents a can at WM, $1.59 at safeway! Think about that! Either 99 cents or a $1.59 for ONE CAN of sauce. I can do a lot with one can of sauce.

Bananas.Steadily 48 cents a pound there. We go through them pretty quickly lately.

Diapers and (GASP) diaper wipes.

Pull-ups.

Soap, Shampoo, Toothpaste.

Razors for me. I refuse to have hairy legs..the sensation of this can keep me awake at night. Not gonna do it!

I also have bought clothes at wal-mart, because they have Lay Away.I do try to buy stuff used if and when I can. What I cannot find used I then go to the next least expensive place ..which means that I go to wal-mart and put it on lay-away so I can put 5.00 or 10.00 dollars at a time...which is important for me.

I do have access to an outlet mall, so I have gone there and bought things when/if I can find it on clearance. It has a Gap, an Osh Kosh, a Stride right, and a Carters and a Motherhood maternity. I can find things there occasionally that I can afford..but not on a _steady_ basis.

My kids need clothes. I have to provide them with clothes. I utilize all options before going to wal-mart...but when it comes down to it, I have to dress my kids.

I could quit using shampoo, and ob tampons,and toilet paper.. but I am not going to.

I could let my kids walk around in the same five articles of clothing to make a statement, but I am not going to do that either.

I guess I should not respond to this thread, because it really does cause me to be angry. I am doing the best that I can right now.

I am glad that others can and have done better. Good job.









In the meanwhile, please accept that I am, once again, doing the best that I can do with what I have.


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## China white

Avonlea

You know what bothers me the most about this whole thing? It's the fact that you have to _defend_ your choices. _None_ of us here are any better than the next mama, and to make people feel like they have to explain their choices......I just don't see the point.
Like I said before, to educate people is awesome, and I thank the OP for her willingness to do this







(*I* didn't know about the sweatshops), but what people do with this information is up to the individual. Personally, I have other choices where I live,(Zellers, Superstore, etc. ) but reading this thread, it sounds like not everyone does, and I wonder how those mamas will feel now that they know about the practices, but can't get around shopping there. For all I know, maybe the other stores I mentioned have the same practices









To the OP, you have definately given us some things to think about in regards to our consumption, and some great ideas on how to reduce what we use. Thanks!!


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## Meiri

Quote:

If you live in an impoverished rural area there seems to be no viable alternative to shopping at Walmart.
It's not a matter of agreeing to disagree or not MHD. It's not a matter of "seems" either. In parts of WV there is NOTHING. You get the occasional news story like the one a few years back about the father and son living in an unheated bus in the winter, with no food and frostbite starting, but for some of these people, they'd sooner starve than get assistance. I don't know whether it's from pride or not knowing that welfare of some sort is available (that's rather difficult to imagine actually), but that's how it is in some areas. That family wasn't going to move to another town, they didn't have money for flour, let along gas (if the bus was even roadworthy). If they had 2 dimes to rub together, WM would have been their only shot at getting something they might afford.

THAT's the kind of thing I'm talking about when I mention people not having choices.


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## fourgrtkidos

*WOW*, I really wish people would stop assumeing that anyone is being judgemental and thinks that they are better than anyone else. People are posting here that they have either found a way to avoid WM or alternatively _have_ to shop at Walmart. IMHO, I think that the people who are feeling like they have to defend themselves are dealing with some internal guilt or insecurity, becasue I have not seen even one post that says that if you shop at WM you are "bad".

I didn't start this tread so that I could say "I am better than you because I don't shop at Walmart". I have shopped there 2 different times this year when I could not afford a specific item I needed, and Walmart was the cheapest (my son's baseball shorts were 5$ there and 20$ apiece everywhere else.) BUT, THIS IS the ACTIVISM FORUM! I want to point out why the shorts were only 5$ at WM...... there overhead is lower for more reasons than "it is a big chain." They cut costs everywhere, including where it hurts it's human workers..... whether it be in our country in a store or another country in a sweatshop.








Michelle


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## Changed

I


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## BBMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meiri*
Not every necessity is available second hand.

Why don't you take those posters' word that this is the best they can do and don't have the options that you have?

And occasionally there's something decent at WM that is Not available elsewhere for more....











I can't afford (with gas prices these days) to travel to shop. The grocery stores here are very expensive compared to WM...I try to shop around, but that gets to be a pain having to travel from store to store when WM has what I need all at one place. I think it's important that each person is given the respect to make the right decisions for her family. I used to work for WM years ago and I know the crap they pull with women...I know how small businesses leave because they can't compete...I can't support small businesses when I can get something cheaper at WM. I have to think about my family first. We don't have many choices here...and it's not like there were many choices before WM came either. The same stores are here...just more expensive for some reason! The two other grocery stores are major chains here in the midwest and their prices still are higher for some things than WM. My job as a consumer is not to help keep higher priced places in business...it's to pay the lowest price I can for items (if I choose too that is).


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## BBMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourgrtkidos*
*WOW*, I really wish people would stop assumeing that anyone is being judgemental and thinks that they are better than anyone else. People are posting here that they have either found a way to avoid WM or alternatively _have_ to shop at Walmart. IMHO, I think that the people who are feeling like they have to defend themselves are dealing with some internal guilt or insecurity, becasue I have not seen even one post that says that if you shop at WM you are "bad".


I don't think those are the feelings anyone has had until they read comments that SUGGEST that maybe they SHOULD feel bad or guilty! I think that's why people get all up in arms...all of a sudden there are comments suggesting that one is wrong or bad or whatever for choosing to shop at a certain place, not use cloth, not use natural products, whatever the case may be...then one starts to wonder and possibly get defensive.

You have to put everything into perspective...what came first really. In many of these cases no one feels guilty until there is a suggestion or implication of guilt.


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## mountain

...or unless the reason to feel guilty rings true to them.

I feel guilty b/c I don't always follow what I know is right. I'll buy organic food, but can't always buy organic cotton. I once went and bought a sports bra at walmart. I suck. I bought some of those camping chairs there for 5 bucks. I way suck.

The reason I feel guilty is I know that when ANYTHING gets too big, it gets OUT OF CONTROL. I don't want to support that. I want to support a simple & sustainable life. No stretch of my imagination can create WM to be a carrier of simple & sustainable life.

I get sick when I see people buying all those ridiculous plastic unnecessary items from WM...a cart full of disposable toilet brushes & barbie dolls. I feel strongly that we have a commitment to the next generation of children to NOT completely ruin the earth...that's why I feel my guilt.


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## WithHannahsHeart

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meiri*
Not every necessity is available second hand.

Why don't you take those posters' word that this is the best they can do and don't have the options that you have?

And occasionally there's something decent at WM that is Not available elsewhere for more....

That.
I must say i do not appreciate such hostility directed towards those of us who choose to shop there for whatever reason. Surely you must have better things to do with your emotional and mental energy than harsh on those of us who really do not have much choice? I don't think it's very productive at all. Until there truly are options for me, and if there were i whould certainly use them, i will continue to shop there without guilt.


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## cancat

I have been to many towns in the US and Canada where the only store is a walmart (or kmart, etc.). They really do exist, and I don't see how its any "better" to use a full tank of gas to drive to a "good" store where alot of the things are made in sweatshops anyway!

That being said, I live in a city, in a "crappy" part of town, where I don't need to drive to buy all of those staples for relatively cheap. I figure I save the difference between walmart goods and local goods buy not driving my car to the store. This was a conscious choice I made, specifically because I didn't want to be limited to walmart or the mall, but I know it's not a choice everyone could/would make!

I think we should all think about the impact our ENTIRE lives have on the earth and its population, and try to reduce that negative impact OURSELVES before "outlawing" specific things. I read an article about celebrities who buy hybrid cars and mock those who drive SUVs, but live in huge 5000 feet air-conditioned houses themselves. I'm an atheist, but believe in the concept of "letting he who is without sin" cast the first stone.

We can all do better, right? Isn't the point to live in such a way that we set the best example we can, for our children, and for others? Far better to educate people gently about their choices, and let them decide, than judge them too harshly.


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## China white

Cancat, the last line of your post sums up what I have been trying to say perfectly:

"Far better to educate people gentley about their choices, and let *them* decide, than to judge them too harshly."

Thankyou!


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## Changed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cancat*
I read an article about celebrities who buy hybrid cars and mock those who drive SUVs, but live in huge 5000 feet air-conditioned houses themselves..


What's bad about that (other than mocking other people)? Yes, Im serious.


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## kama'aina mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cancat*
I read an article about celebrities who buy hybrid cars and mock those who drive SUVs, but live in huge 5000 feet air-conditioned houses themselves..


Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
What's bad about that (other than mocking other people)? Yes, Im serious.

The hypocricy of it. "Look at me! Look at me! I'm energy concious! I'm saving energy! (Except for back home where I'm throwing it away by the truckload...) Shame on your resource hogging SUV drivers! Boooo Shwartzenegar!"

BTW, I finally realised that it is GREAT that Ah-nold owns 15 Hummers. That means that on any given day at least 14 of them are sitting idle. If they were owned by 15 different people they would probably all be driven almost every day. Hurrah for conspicuous consuption!


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## MamaOui

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kama'aina mama*
The hypocricy of it. "Look at me! Look at me! I'm energy concious! I'm saving energy! (Except for back home where I'm throwing it away by the truckload...) Shame on your resource hogging SUV drivers! Boooo Shwartzenegar!"

BTW, I finally realised that it is GREAT that Ah-nold owns 15 Hummers. That means that on any given day at least 14 of them are sitting idle. If they were owned by 15 different people they would probably all be driven almost every day. Hurrah for conspicuous consuption!

:LOL









I'll resume my lurking now














:


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## cancat

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
What's bad about that (other than mocking other people)? Yes, Im serious.


The hypocrisy! It's trendy to put down SUVs (not that I'm a fan of them, either), but not yet trendy to put down people who waste the same amount of energy (more!) to cool their house (or three houses), or who take private jets across the country.

Edited to add: I should have read kamaaina's post above before posting...


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## grisandole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alliwenk*
Great point abimommy AND great book recommendation! I'm reading "The Working Poor" by David Shipler right now. While not as well written as Ehrenreich's book, it's similar in it's outlook and basically makes the same point about "choice" that several posters are making here.

Allison


I'm reading this book, too!

You know, one thing that hasn't been brought up is that if other stores lowered their prices a bit, maybe people who don't want to shop walmart but do WOULD go elsewhere. For example, our local HFS is WAY over priced. I know how much their lease is, and I know the msrp and wholesale cost of most of their products, and they charge more than msrp. There is another HFS about 25 minutes away with more reasonable prices, set at msrp or slightly less. I won't go to the hfs near me, as I feel totally ripped off that they charge what they do.

Safeway charges much more than Walmart, and their entry-level employees don't make more than Walmart employees.........their benefits are similar as well (at least here, not sure about other states).

Of course stores should make a profit. But do they need such a high profit margin?

ETA- I'm talking about food; not clothing and such, as I understand about sweatshops and how WM gets certain items for much cheaper than other retailers that way.


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## Changed

who waste the same amount of energy (more!) to cool their house (or three houses.
[/QUOTE said:


> Just curious, do most of you mamas air condition your home?


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## IdentityCrisisMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grisandole*
You know, one thing that hasn't been brought up is that if other stores lowered their prices a bit, maybe people who don't want to shop walmart but do WOULD go elsewhere.

We struggle with this issue also. In Santa Cruz we supported local businesses but I had gotten burned really badly by a few and it was making me really disillusioned. One time I was so upset with a small company and I realized that I could have called the "supervisor" of larger provider and gotten results.

So, yea, the other stores, IMO, should make a bigger effort to compete with the chains. I understand that they will not be able to fully compete but some places don't seem to even try to compete with prices and some services (like returns).

Oh and, a big nod at the hypocrisy issue. I try not to dwell on it because, otherwise, I would see it everywhere. That's kind of what I was talking about with the TP thing. Yea, I could cut TP and it would be a nice "radical" addition to my resume but there would still be far greater consumption issues that I should be dealing.

No air conditoning here. I really don't like it so it isn't even tempting for me. We do consume like crazy in the winter because we have an oversized old house...I'll do better with the next rental (just wasn't thinking...I was drawn like a moth)


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## Changed

WOW, I can't believe that. It's too hot here, my a/c is never ever off. I run the a/c more in the winter than I do the heat. We have a fireplace but i've never used it. I'd love to live somewhere that you don't have to use a/c all the time. I bet you save a lot of money that way!


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## AnnMarie

I shop at Walmart because other than that all we have here is Kmart and they don't have everything I need, and when they do it's a lot more expensive. I do buy clothing and other sale items at Kmart whenever I can though.


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## IdentityCrisisMama

It gets hot here in the - hot enough that many shops don't sell chocolate in the summer months. Man, last year it was like 115 but that was unusual.

A better person than me would conserve better with the heat. All of the rooms have 2 doors, which would be used so you just heat the section of the house that you're using. I hate doors and we removed them without thinking but I'm probably going to put them back on this winter because I felt bad about all the waste.

Living in Europe has given me an amazing perspective on consumption&#8230;the things I couldn't even imagine living without most of my friends don't even have a use for. It takes a shock to the system(for me)to be able to see them though.

My goal is to go no clothes dryer because it seems like such a waste to use one when nature does it for free. It's gonna be hard though.


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## MamaMonica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kama'aina mama*
BTW, I finally realised that it is GREAT that Ah-nold owns 15 Hummers. That means that on any given day at least 14 of them are sitting idle. If they were owned by 15 different people they would probably all be driven almost every day. Hurrah for conspicuous consuption!









:LOL

on the hybrid stuff- a lot of us ordinary people (non-movie stars) who drive hybrid cars also compost, recycle and turn our thermostats way down- and don't have air conditioners. It's a part of an overall plan- no one is perfect- we're all doing our best.


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## cancat

Quote:


Originally Posted by *monnie*







:LOL

on the hybrid stuff- a lot of us ordinary people (non-movie stars) who drive hybrid cars also compost, recycle and turn our thermostats way down- and don't have air conditioners. It's a part of an overall plan- no one is perfect- we're all doing our best.


Just want to say: I wasn't trying to beat up on the hybrid-drivers! Or the house air-conditioners either! It was just to show how it's easy to criticise someone given just one example from their lives (ie, shopping at walmart) rather than looking at the BIG PICTURE...the "overall plan" monnie mentions above.

I mean, what's better, to drop a few hundred bucks every month at organic food stores/clothes boutiques, or to spend 20 bucks here or there at walmart?
I don't have an answer to this, but its just something to consider...


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## Peppamint

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
Just curious, do most of you mamas air condition your home?

Yes, but it's set at 80* right now... if we don't use A/C we get mold on the walls and it gets over 95* in the house.

I love spring and fall because I can open windows and use fans if necessary, I miss that!


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## MamaMonica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cancat*
Just want to say: I wasn't trying to beat up on the hybrid-drivers! Or the house air-conditioners either! It was just to show how it's easy to criticise someone given just one example from their lives (ie, shopping at walmart) rather than looking at the BIG PICTURE...the "overall plan" monnie mentions above.

I mean, what's better, to drop a few hundred bucks every month at organic food stores/clothes boutiques, or to spend 20 bucks here or there at walmart?
I don't have an answer to this, but its just something to consider...

I know you weren't beating up on hybrid drivers. Just have to always step in and defend the image of hybrid drivers as being movie stars :LOL

I do think it is important to not criticize people for one aspect of their lives- all of us after all are many-faceted and it's hard to get a real picture from just one thing. Like a person getting their TP at Walmart but biking to work and growing their own garden using a recycled bedspring as a trellis for their tomatoes and pole beans!


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## AmyB

It is interesting to see the vairous perspectives in this thread.

My family of three lives on about $25K/year (after taxes) so we aren't exactly poor but we aren't rich either. However, I find that we are much too poor to shop at places like Wal-Mart.

The reason is that the stuff is such poor quality. I wear my work clothes and shoes for years. I can't afford cheap stuff that falls apart in the wash or shoes that wear out in less than a year. I can't afford to keep replacing kitchenware that breaks or furniture that sags and delaminates when you use it. I can't afford to pay a big corporation to process my food for me when it's so much cheaper to buy staples like rice and lentils and supplement them with in-season fruits and veggies.

I guess this will sound elitist to some, but when I shop at yard sales, thrift stores or overstock stores at least there is a possibility that I'll find a real treasure for cheap. At Wal-Mart they promise to stock the cheapest product and that means those hidden treasures don't even exist in the store. I hate the feeling that just because I don't have much money the cheap junk they sell is all that I deserve.

BTW, I'm not saying that expensive = good quality. Even nicer stores stock marked up cheap stuff in order to make a profit. What I'm saying is that buying cheap without considering quality essentially means buying disposable products and that is almost always more expensive in the long run.

--AmyB


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## Peppamint

Hi Amy,

I've noticed the same thing with clothing. Walmart is cheaper, but pills up or falls apart... so I can get the same item of clothing off the clearance rack at baby gap for $1-$2 more and it will last through 2-3 kids.









I was thrilled to come across a link for americanapparelstore.com (I think earlier in this thread?) ... they a tee for $14 just like the ones I purchased at Eddie Bauer for about the same price. If I would have bought from aas, I would have supported non-sweatshop US jobs. So now I know... next time I can afford some new clothing, guess where I'll go?









Everytime I think I've caught up, I find someone else that can be improved. And to think it all started with recycling! (for me anyway)


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## IdentityCrisisMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *busybusymomma*
Everytime I think I've caught up, I find someone else that can be improved.

That's me to a tee! It's a total work in progress and I'm not even close to where I feel I should be from a moral perspective. I am workin' on it, which I'm proud of. It's something to be proud of regardless of where one is on the path...as long as they're on it!


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## DebraBaker

Yes, I use air conditioning. I lived most of my adult life without it and have been miserable in this humid climate.

I keep it at 74 but I keep the heat set at 65 in the winter.

I consider air more important than heat in winter because I feel the heat (more accurately humidity) much more acutely than the cold.

I have relatively few clothes, few possessions but I want what I have to be of good quality.

I tend to shop and eat more like a European than an American.

Debra Baker


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## TiredX2

Quote:

Everytime I think I've caught up, I find someone else that can be improved.










That fact does let me be easier on myself. I just pick what I am trying to do *right now* and know that when I have that under my belt, I'll go onto the next thing.


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## janerose

Have to admit that I'm torn on this one. In lots of way I do agree that in small towns Mall-Wart is often the only answer for basics. I live in rural VT, so I deal with this first hand. Also, we're a single income family making less than $40K a year, so I know about tight budgets. That said, I think a lot of what Americans consider "basics" aren't really necessary & in lots of cases are toxic. Both environmentally & socially.

We do still go to WM but are steadily going less & less. How are we cutting down? Well, I've started making most of our cleaners using good old vinegar, baking soda, washing soda, borax & Dr Bronner's. I've stopped buying Swiffer refills. Once the ones we have are gone I'll be using microfiber towels to refill the Swiffer. We'll hopefully be joining Costco soon, which will let us get the necessities I can't make & we can't afford to by eco-friendly (TP, Dove for DH eczema, tissues, pet food, etc). I use some of the $$ saved on not buying tons of cleaning products to upgrade the ones I don't like the homemade versions of to eco-friendly brands from the local health food store. Most of Emi's clothing will come from gifts, garage sales, or the kids thrift store. She'll be totally cloth diapered/wiped/breastfed so no worries about buying that stuff.

Honestly, I might still be tempted to shop at Mall-Wart, but they don't carry *any* of the enviro friendly stuff we're trying to change over to. That's a pretty big negative in my book.

Holly


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## sohj

T janerose, does your husband drink dandelion tea? I have found all the kidney/hepatic tonics to be excellent for excema. Much better than topical aids.

dandelion root
cleavers (leaves)
burdock root or seed or flowers (but the last isn't as strong)
nettle leaf
milk thistle seed


----------



## janerose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sohj*







T janerose, does your husband drink dandelion tea? I have found all the kidney/hepatic tonics to be excellent for excema. Much better than topical aids.

dandelion root
cleavers (leaves)
burdock root or seed or flowers (but the last isn't as strong)
nettle leaf
milk thistle seed

Really? Thanks a ton for the tip! I'll have to try it & pass it onto my best friend who's suffered with awful eczema since her 2nd was born. I'm sure DH would gladly drink dandelion tea if he thought it would help. Actually, he finally stopped using his steroid cream a few months ago. Discovered that if he just moisturizes a little bit each day he doesn't need it. Amazing huh? Yay for natural living!









Holly


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## sohj

Yeah, janerose. Now you have something to do with all that dandelion and burdock that is probably growing in your yard....since you are in VT.









ALRIGHT, now back to your regularly scheduled thread.


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## Meiri

I don't get where people are saying that everything at Walmart is junk and of poor quality. No doubt some is. But I see the same brands at WM that I see at higher priced places. Does Ovaltine send different product to WM than it does to Giant Eagle that the price should be over a $1 higher at GE?

Is the Sugar and Cream brand cotton yarn I buy there of a different quality than the exact same brand in the exact same colors that are $1 more at Pat Catan's?

Is Rubbermaid sending seconds to WM and firsts to Target?

I think that it's like with any other shopping, including secondhand, you have to examine what you're buying. When I took Home Ec, back in the 70's, we were taught to examine all articles of clothing for acceptable workmanship. As far as I can tell, nothing's changed. You still have to do this whether you're shopping at WM or Macy's.


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## *Erin*

OT a little..i would love to read "the working poor", but i can't afford to buy it-dh and i got a laugh out of that at the bookstore the other day....

also, i'd never buy clothes at walmart, unless it's something on super clearence (a dollar or less, and something she needs, like tshirts or shorts) for dd-they're crappy in addition to being made by slave labor. we have a carters, gap, and an old navy outlet close by, and i can get really nice clothing for dd on clearence in those stores for a couple dollars, it's made by slave labor too, but at least if i buy it on super markdown, i'm buying the crumbs and not the whole pie...i wish i could buy organic, fair trade cotten wahm clothes, but i'd rather eat. it's that simple for us right now...but i'm being redundant..

mhl, we air condition. round the clock, b/c it's muggy and H.O.T. yesterday, it was 105 with the heat index. our apt is poorly insulated, and we'd be ill if we didnt keep it running all the time. we can't really do anything to fix it either, except move, which we're doing in about 2 months.


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## DesireeH

I go to Walmart sometimes too. Not because it allows me to SAHM, because I will be one regardless. I can go to Target and get the same deals usually. The way I figure it is every big company probably does something I dont agree with or donates money to something I dont agree with (whether it be military efforts, certain religious affiliations, etc etc). If I x'd out all of the places I dont agree with, I would have to make everything myself/grow everything myself.

About the low wages thing, that is more than just Walmart, I worked my butt off for JCPenney for 3 years and you know what I was making when I quit, after 3 years (oh ya, and it was 2002 when I left)........7.10! I worked overtime alot (not because I wanted to) and half of the time, in order to get lunch, I'd have to call and threaten to quit. So its not just Walmart that treats their employees crappy. My friend worked for Sears and she got paid crappy too.

I am not sticking up for Walmart because maybe there is more to the story that I havent investigated, but I am just saying that there are plenty of other places that have crappy work environments.


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## Jennifer Z

I have said before that I am poor, but now that it looks to improve soon, let me tell you how poor. $8-10K/year (after tuition - maybe less if you count in school supplies for dh). Now, take out $485/month rent, utilities at $70-300/month, phone & internet $40/month, YMCA $40/year (walking distance) and let me see how far my "excess" income would get you. When I say every penny counts, I am not exagerating.

"Reduce" is a way of life. I don't wear make-up, wear my hair back so that I only have to wash it every week or two (although since I started working out, I do rinse it almost every day, but there isn't money for that much shampoo usage), use watered down soap, only shave my legs with razors my husband can't use on his face any more, don't use deoderant unless I am going to be in close proximity to people, get through heavy periods by jumping in the shower and rinsing all day so that I only have to use one pad /day (haven't been able to get money together for the cloth pads yet), cut my families hair, and have not bought a single pair of shoes or of clothing for myself in several years. (the only clothes dh & I have gotten is from our parents...a pair of jeans when the holes are too big to patch for dh and some misc. hand-me-downs from my grandma for me), no cable, no long distance ( a calling card for emergencies - our folks all have 800 numbers), no backyard to grow a garden, can't container garden or hang out clothes because it is against apt. regulations (even if I could afford the containers, soil & seeds, which I can't), and all of ds clothing is bought twice a year at an Old Navy or Carter's outlet (and my mom usually pitches in on that), and we have only gone out to eat when my mom gave us money with the stipulation we must use the money for going out and having some fun.

Now add this: Walmart is across the street, Kroger is a short drive. Farmer's market is once a week and costs about $5 in gas and parking fees. There is no Kmart (unless on the other side of town, which I never go to - gas money). Target is 20 minutes away and pricey. The only HFS in town are small indys which I would love to support except they cost 4x what I used to pay at Wild Oats (before I moved to this town) and about 6x the price of walmart. I do end up going there when I can because it is the only place in town that sells organic normal fat yogurt for ds. There are a few items I get at Krogers that aren't available at Walmart also.

Now, food. I am on food stamps. I am not going to say how much, but it is a really, really tight squeeze to feed our family on them and we never buy any prepackaged anything (except fruit & veggies - generic). We only buy whole foods, and not much meat. We have to be really careful because there are times when there is no money left to fill in the gap if we overspend, and dh and I are stuck eating noodles (made with white flour and water...cheap)

There is simply no place else for me to cut. There is a LOT we do without. This time has taught us that there is a lot more you can do without than I would have imagined before, and I am really grateful to have what we do. I am a SAHM because if I worked, at this point, I would have a net loss (childcare, loss of foodstamps/ health ins for ds, clothes, gas, makeup, soap). If something costs $1 more, there is a good chance we can't get it. There IS a point where your family has to come before politics, especially when you can't routinely get the basics.

eta: Two more weeks and then dh has a degree. Even if he doesn't get an outside "real world" job (resumes are out), grad school money is much, much better. I just laugh when people tell us that he will be a "poor grad student" if he works as a GA...it will be more than we have ever made. We might be well enough off in two months to turn down the food stamps when they are up for renewal after August.

I did NOT write this for sympathy or anything like that. I just felt like it needed to be illustrated that some of us really don't have the options some suggest.


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## shine

After reading the OP and skimming responses, I just wanted to add that while the OP may feel good about patting herself on the back for shopping at WholeFoods, it's still a huge corporation with typical corporate/profit motive problems and they (and others like them, i.e. Wild Oats) damage local economies in similar ways that WalMart does. I'm not supporting Walmart -- not by a long stretch -- but lets not pretend that WholeFoods and Wild Oats are such fantastically community oriented corporations. The Wild Oats here in Nashville drove out one of the only locally owned health food stores and Whole Foods in Austin hasn't done great things for the local co-op. And their pay isn't great either, nor are the benefits. They do get involved in local charities but then so does Walmart -- and why? Tax write off, PR, etc. They all carry organic products (yes, even walmart), they all have their share of snake-oil too.

How about instead of judging folks for where they shop, help locate local businesses that we can support. Yeah, ok maybe we'll buy our TP at Walmart, but then on the way home we'll stop and get our oil changed at the family-owned local repair shop and get a sandwich at the locally owned not-a-chain sub shop. We're not going to be citizen-saints, but we can balance our choices and make tracks toward more community living. Another way to support community business is to volunteer our time. Volunteering time at a locally run co-op is a great way to focus energy into the community and away from corporate headquarters.

anyway, that's all I've got.
sorry to butt in.

Sandi


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## *Erin*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shine*
After reading the OP and skimming responses, I just wanted to add that while the OP may feel good about patting herself on the back for shopping at WholeFoods, it's still a huge corporation with typical corporate/profit motive problems and they (and others like them, i.e. Wild Oats) damage local economies in similar ways that WalMart does. ----
How about instead of judging folks for where they shop, help locate local businesses that we can support. Yeah, ok maybe we'll buy our TP at Walmart, but then on the way home we'll stop and get our oil changed at the family-owned local repair shop and get a sandwich at the locally owned not-a-chain sub shop. We're not going to be citizen-saints, but we can balance our choices and make tracks toward more community living. Another way to support community business is to volunteer our time. Volunteering time at a locally run co-op is a great way to focus energy into the community and away from corporate headquarters.
---

Sandi


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## CarrieMF

I am a SAHM of 3, I live in a town of 25,000, dh makes $35,000 US. We live in a crappy double wide trailer and need a border to pay us rent in order to live. We have 2 vehicles, none brand new. We do not own extravagent things, nor do we spend money on things we do not need or eat out.

I walk everywhere and I KNOW exactly what types of local businesses there are locally. I shop at Walmart, my other choices are Superstore(same stuff different name, Canadian owned), Safeway(way too expensive), Co-op(again way too expensive), Zellers(again same stuff, different name), Sears(ha! and I thought Co-op and Safeway were expensive) or Sobeys

I HAVE to buy products at Walmart. I comparison shop every purchase I make so I do know if something is cheaper at walmart or not and I will buy it at the cheaper store even if it means I am going to 6 different stores.

The girls have enough clothes for a week, they are all either Superstore Brand or Wal-mart brand. Anything else that they own which is higher quality has been bought by other people. My sister likes to buy them Please Mum, I hate having to repair every single item she's bought them. Their cheap brand clothes from WM and SS, well they are on their 3rd kid now. IMO it was worth it to pay $5 for a shirt instead of $30.

Thrift stores, consignment stores and garage sales. Anything at a garage sale is either crappier than what I have bought them or worn and is going to fall apart anyhow. We have gotten some toys at them, but unless you're up at 6am and one of the sales happens to land on a Thurs or Fri morning that just happens to be payday and I have extra money to spend on toys for Xmas and bdays(all in the winter or spring) good luck getting them. Consignment stores, barely 10% off the ticket price at the counter IF I was shopping at a high end store. There is never anything within my price range. Thrift stores, again the same problem as with the garage sales but worse.

I grow my own veggies but we live in town, I do not have a large garden and there are no community gardens around so I run out halfway through winter. My parents give us our beef for free, I buy chicken and pork. I buy almost all my groceries at Superstore and not Wal-mart but I do not know Superstore's policies other than from when i worked there and they are equal to WM.

Farmer's Market, Yeah I could buy the girls clothes there IF I wanted to spend $40 on a sundress from material that is bought at Walmart that I could make for $6 by buying the material and making it myself. Food from there, more expensive than in the stores. I have my own business and I put a table in the market every other week so I know exactly what is at the market.

I do what I can for my family to minimalize our life(and to me that includes not wasting my money spending 4 times as much on food and clothing) and I try to help my local community as much as possible but if I can get a better deal at WM, SS or any of the other large corporations and I need to save money you bet I will.

I am quite proudly wearing my $12 outfit from walmart that I got on clearance allowing my girls to have food on their table, clothes on their bodies and a roof over their heads.


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## littleteapot

We shop at Wal*Mart maybe .5% of the time...
But we don't have a car, and it's 5 miles away.
We normally shop at the Sav-On which is just down the road.
We have a budget of about $100 maximum to spend every week, and not just on groceries. That's on a good month.

We live in a small town, and Wal*Mart has driven out all the local business'. Zellers, Extra foods, all the corner markets... there's less and less places to shop at, and falling fast.
We live in an apartment, and while I'd love to grow our own food I don't have the cash to spend on getting started, nor the space. Unless you want to give me some?








We rarely buy new clothes. In this entire year I've bought two shirts, one pair of jeans, and two packs of underwear. All that thrift, the undies at a Fields for $1. My husband has bought a pair of shorts at a Value Village.
We don't ever buy clothes new.
All our baby stuff came off Ebay, we make all our meals from scratch, in large amounts. Believe me, we penny pinch.

I've bought a baby gate at Wal*Mart, I'm going to buy a memory card for my camera there (these are purchases we've saved for), I bought a fan there too - all because there is literally no place in town to buy them. Yes, I checked the TWO, incredibly crappy thrift stores we have here, and local businesses. Fan for $19, fan for $40 - we have $50 for the rest of the week, it's 100 degrees, in a south-facing apartment, with no A/C and a baby that is so hot she runs fevers. Where would you go?

We don't make purchases there often, but will do when we need to. And yes, there are times when we need to... as with the fan thing.


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## green betty

I don't think there's a single person posting on this list who SUPPORTS unfair wages, sweatshops, or worker discrimination. And of course, lots of people can't afford to NOT shop there or just don't have much in the way of choice. That's not a very useful conversation.

So my question is this: how do we ,as members of the communities that Walmart serves, put pressure on the store to move in the direction of more fair practices? I think we can be a lot more creative than reducing the debate to "shop there=bad and not shop there=good". Any ideas? (Extra points for funny ones!)


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## moongazer

I have only skimmed these posts so I hope I'm not being redundent. I am thinking that maybe the OP means that we need to take responsibilities for our choices. Very few of us actually have NO choice but to shop at WM. I could choose to make my DS, who gets very car sick, endure and extra 40mins in the car to shop at Meijer instead. Or I could spend the one day my DH gets off from work doing the shopping instead of going to the park as a family. Or I could lose sleep by shopping after he gets home at night and the kids are asleep. But I am 7 mos. pregnant and TIRED. These are not the choices I want to make for my family.
Other moms here could choose to spend more for the items they buy or spend more on gas to get to other stores but they choose to use that money to buy enough food so their kids won't be hungry. It seems like an easy choice to me.
I think most of us are well aware of WM and other big corporation's business practices. We are just making the best choices for our family right now.


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## kimisaur

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meiri*
I don't get where people are saying that everything at Walmart is junk and of poor quality. No doubt some is. But I see the same brands at WM that I see at higher priced places. Does Ovaltine send different product to WM than it does to Giant Eagle that the price should be over a $1 higher at GE?


Actually, some of the fabric manufacturers do exactly that...it's lower quality, same print. But yes, most of the brand names are the same, and wal-mart can squeeze the lowest price usually. I understand that some mamas need to be so tight a few dollars make a difference.

But, I don't want to buy my food from someplace that gets a great deal buying volume, at the cheapest price. I want to buy my food, certified organic, from small local farms whenever possible. I don't want it coming soaked in pesticide from central america, or wherever the cheapest price is. I am fortunate to be in a large city with lots of good options for small shops, where I find the service and selection to be much, much better. I haven't been in one of the big stores for years, nor do I have any plans to go back.

That said, again, I understand that lots of other people don't have the options available to me.

-Kimberly


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## pilesoflaundry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magemom*
FWIW, Albertson's is the store leaving town- maybe they will leave your area next? I can not belive how expensive they are! Surprise surprise they aren't doing well??


They just bought out shaw's and are screwing the employees of the now soon to be former shaw's royally. My brother just called me to rant, I feel bad for the kid! I am no fan of walmart but I will never ever shop in albertson's.

BTW they got in mucho trouble in florida a few years ago when 20/20 exposed them for selling expired meat, they just slapped new labels with new sell by dates on them







:

As for why I shop at walmart?

Because I don't have a whole heck of a lot of choice in this small town. The only other option is a very tiny target with half the selection, and not even a pharmacy. There are NO children's consignment shops, and the only thrift shops are goodwill where I have seen literal garbage there except for once in a great while when target dumps their rejected clearance stuff there. And yard sales are not always full of great stuff anymore because ebay makes you more on used clothing.

We also have no whole foods, trader joes, co-op or other hfs. I'm not thrilled to love here and can't really wait to go but we have to sit for awhile. Yeah I do sometimes drive an hour away to give my money to a better store but it's not possible all of the time and I don't want to use the gas weekly either. Not only because of the pollution issue but because we can't afford it.

I call it hell mart and rumble under my breath when I have to shop there but seriously is target, kmart etc any better? Possibly larger department stores and if I can find a clearance sale right then yeah I do give my money to sears, pennys etc instead. But our tiny mall has zero selection so again hard to do when there is a *need* and I have checked everywhere else.


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## attachmentfeminist

I shop at walmart, even though I hate myself for it, because it's the only game in town.


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## pilesoflaundry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
It's a grocery store chain in the southern US. I know it's all over Texas and i believe in Flordia too. Probably all over. Funny thing about HEB is that my family was friends with the original owner Howard Butt. My mother shared a bed as an infant on the weekends with their son. It's gone to pot and the prices stink. Like all large co's the intention of the original owner gets lost somewhere.


AFAIK it's just a TX chain, I have never seen it before I moved here and I was like what the heck is HEB until someone clued me in :LOL. I know they aren't up north and pretty sure not in most of the rest of the south. Either I've lived there or driven through and never saw another one outside TX. I could be wrong about it not being anywhere else because I haven't traveled/lived through the midwest or the west coast.

I walked in once saw how expensive they are and went right back to the commisary. If I didn't have that choice it would be HEB or walmart in this tiny town.








:


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## mamadodson

I shop at walmart all the time...I dont see why everyone hates it so bad, and as far as them treating employees bad, and not paying well...I worked for our local walmart for 3 years and was treated just fine and fairly..infact in the first year of work there I went from min wag to almost 10 bucks an hour and went from sales associate to department manager in the first 6 months...I dont think that is being treated bad...jmo....I dont have much money so it helps, but even if i did i would still shop there...


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## KermitMissesJim

My little HEB near me in Houston (I lived in a low-income area) was not the prettiest store but it had great prices. They built some sort of gorgeous, clean Super HEB a few miles further (but in Houston traffic, it took a long time to get there) and I guess they had to mark the prices accordingly? It was stinking expensive!

We do WalMart though I've been going to Smith's Marketplace the most lately (a little more expensive but I like the Natural Foods and Remedies section a LOT, plus they have that milk that tastes like 2% but is skim--WM has Viva milk the same, but it's vile-tasting). Dh is still driven to have *stuff* and I sure get caught up in it myself. The one thing we both want to have are hundreds of good books in a nice library in our own home. Someday...

I have good luck with rompers for toddlers and Garanimals at WM. OTT, not much appeals.

I'm sure as I age and dh's income expands, I will find a way to use WM less. Baby steps, everyone gets there at her own pace. A year ago I was not CD-ing nor even thinking about it, and now I use family cloth TP and am saving to buy mama pads.


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## momto l&a

Our local (70+miles away) Walmart pays more per hour for most of its help than dh makes per hour as a police officer. This Wal-Mart is a great place to work from the people I have talked to.

We have 3 main places we shop on our once a month shopping trip.Wal_mart, Costco and Grocery Outlet.

I could shop locally and have no selection and terrible prices and terrible service or go to Wal-Mart and have a wonderful selection, good prices, great service and a nice return policy.

I buy the girls and I clothes at yard/thrift shops but dh get his clothes at Wa-Mart most times because of his size.


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## fourgrtkidos

I really wish a mod would just delete this whole thread. I can't believe how many people got so defensive instead of wanting to be informed. Everyone wants to champion bf, cd, no circ'ing but "don't mess with my convienience or comfort". I am so disappointed with where this thread ended up.


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## Nicole77

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momto l&a*
Our local (70+miles away) Walmart pays more per hour for most of its help than dh makes per hour as a police officer.

This would seem to me to be a bad reflection on society's value of public service positions rather than a good reflection on Walmart. It is undeniable that they pay their employees low wages, refuse to allow most of them to work enough hours on the books to qualify for health insurance and retirement benefits, have unequal policies towards female and male employees, refuse to allow unions in to better working conditions, have unsafe work policies, and drive smaller local businesses out because of these and other shady tactics.

Just because something else is equally bad or worse does not mean that what you know is wrong is suddenly acceptable. I will continue to boycott Walmart, and continue working towards a change in other societal issues as well.

(Sorry if this is slightly incoherent...it is really late and I am nak since my daughter just woke up)


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## IdentityCrisisMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourgrtkidos*
I really wish a mod would just delete this whole thread. I can't believe how many people got so defensive instead of wanting to be informed. Everyone wants to champion bf, cd, no circ'ing but "don't mess with my convienience or comfort". I am so disappointed with where this thread ended up.

Friendly criticism ahead&#8230;

I think the problem was the nature of the OP and, especially the tread title. The thread wasn't originally aimed at informing people and it _seemed_ to be trying to understand the position of people who shop at WM but at the same time seemed to be making a dig at them. In the end, I didn't love the style of this thread and I don't even shop at Walmart (and am not defensive) -mostly because I think it's better to focus on what I can do better than what other people can do, YK? But also because it seems like a trap.

I've had the same experience posting about something that I care deeply about. I posted "Why is merchandise the only consideration for auto safety" and did NOT get a positive response. Looking deeper at *why* that was, I could see that my intentions were not that great ~ I was trying to change people at the same time that I was insulting them or making my self feel superior - that combination just does NOT work. So, I posted again a few months later, "Anyone limiting time in the car" and got great responses. I'm not saying that that's what you're doing but it came off that way, to me.

I think there would be better feed back if you just asked people what they were doing to be more conscious consumers (this way you may get some tips for yourself - maybe even from some WM shoppers







). And/or just post a FYI on WM practices. Or, "Ideas for supporting a sustainable economy!" Or, "Whom do you boycott and why?" (existing thread)

It's the difference between asking "Why do ABM mothers insist they need formula?" and posting "Why I boycott Nestlé&#8230;"

Yea, to some extent the way a thread goes is random but this one could have used a better start, IMO ~ especially because some people just post w/out reading the whole thread, which I think has made this thread somewhat frustrating to you (and me).

Perhaps, at the very lest there could have been a link to a WM boycott site on the OP.

Do you see what I'm saying?

I hope you take this in the spirit it was intended - that I've been there with a thread gone wrong and would have appreciated someone help me understand how they think I could done better.


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## obeyacts2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nicole77*
This would seem to me to be a bad reflection on society's value of public service positions rather than a good reflection on Walmart. It is undeniable that they pay their employees low wages, refuse to allow most of them to work enough hours on the books to qualify for health insurance and retirement benefits, have unequal policies towards female and male employees, refuse to allow unions in to better working conditions,

The point is, it isnt just WalMart, but other retailers as well. Early in my work life, I worked for a major department store (Macys) I was the ladies ready to wear stocker. I remember one sale we were putting out these nice ladies brand name sweaters for half-price, $79. I pulled a rack out to put more sweaters out and found the invoice. Macys paid $13 each for them and they were made in Malaysia. At the sale price, the profit margin is 600%. At full price, about 1200%. Macys also paid the employees 1.00 over minimum wage, and pressured the help into wearing Macys clothing. Retail is crummy for anybody who is not management, period. WalMart doesnt have the market cornered. BTW, the single Moms were drawing Medicaid due to no health coverage or unaffordable coverage.

LLaura


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## fourgrtkidos

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IdentityCrisisMama*
Friendly criticism ahead&#8230;

I think the problem was the nature of the OP and, especially the tread title. The thread wasn't originally aimed at informing people and it _seemed_ to be trying to understand the position of people who shop at WM but at the same time seemed to be making a dig at them.

I was not trying to make a dig. I really wanted to know and made that disclaimer in the OP.

I think there would be better feed back if you just asked people what they were doing to be more conscious consumers (this way you may get some tips for yourself - maybe even from some WM shoppers







). And/or just post a FYI on WM practices. Or, "Ideas for supporting a sustainable economy!" Or, "Whom do you boycott and why?" (existing thread)

I tried that with a thread titled: OK, I'll try again. Where do you shop that is socially conscious and why? I asked for links. and info. There were a total of 10-12 posts, half mine.

Yea, to some extent the way a thread goes is random but this one could have used a better start, IMO ~ especially because some people just post w/out reading the whole thread, which I think has made this thread somewhat frustrating to you (and me).

Perhaps, at the very lest there could have been a link to a WM boycott site on the OP.

There was.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Yes, thanks.

I hope you take this in the spirit it was intended - that I've been there with a thread gone wrong and would have appreciated someone help me understand how they think I could done better.









Thankyou for your kind and honest, helpfull input. -Michelle


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## momto l&a

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nicole77*
Just because something else is equally bad or worse does not mean that what you know is wrong is suddenly acceptable. I will continue to boycott Walmart, and continue working towards a change in other societal issues as well.



Well, I must say for my family, we dont know that its 'wrong' to shop at Wal-Mart because for us its not wrong.


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## IdentityCrisisMama

Quote:

=fourgrtkidos]
(RE: Walmart links in the OP)

Just so you know, a link for a anti-WM site doesn't come up on the OP for me. Thanks for not taking my post personally.

If I have time, I'll do my part by bumping up the posts with some good WM informaion because I can see they're needed.

I suggest that anyone interested in debating Walmart do a little search on their business practices first because it goes much deeper than how they treat their domestic workers.

In the end, one of the biggest issues that I have with WM is that they are big contributors in ruining our sustainable economies and local "independent community" culture.

BUT, I have never lived anywhere that WM or other chains are "the only game in town." And, I am not currently in a position where I am counting my pennies to the extent that many other people are and I don't really feel that I can judge a person in that place.

That said, I do think a little research on the shops you use is a good idea - even it that's your only choice at this time, YK?

That's where I am with imported foods and air travel. I've done some research. I know these two things are not completely within my value systems but I'm not "there yet" so to speak with regards to changing my habits. Somehow it just feels good to know that I'm aware and that I'll work on it when I'm ready.


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## fourgrtkidos

Sorry, I meant that there were links in the thread. There were links on page 3. One from me and one from another mamma.


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## fourgrtkidos

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=167343

This is the more "positive" discussion that I tried to start, that went no where fast.

This is a link to a consumer information magazine. www.co-opamerica.org

-Michelle


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## scorpioqueen

I'm now lucky enough to love in a city big enough to beable to take bussiness else where so while I don't 100% boycott Walmart its extremly rare to go there (been maybe twice since we moved) in June 2003. However I did move from a place where there was literly NO choice.
We had a Furrs groccery Store and an Alco Store (a kinda Walmart mini wanna be) That was it no famers markets, no consignment shops, thrift stores, ect.. It just didn't exist. That was it and forbid you needed anything past 9pm too bad stores were closed. Dare to need it on a sunday? 6pm. Anyways all food items were generally gotton at the groccery and Clothing ect at the Alco. We did this because there was no choice.
BTW it was an hour drive to get to the nearest Walmart.

Deanna


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## KirstenMary

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourgrtkidos*
*WOW*, I really wish people would stop assumeing that anyone is being judgemental and thinks that they are better than anyone else. People are posting here that they have either found a way to avoid WM or alternatively _have_ to shop at Walmart. IMHO, I think that the people who are feeling like they have to defend themselves are dealing with some internal guilt or insecurity, becasue I have not seen even one post that says that if you shop at WM you are "bad".

I didn't start this tread so that I could say "I am better than you because I don't shop at Walmart". I have shopped there 2 different times this year when I could not afford a specific item I needed, and Walmart was the cheapest (my son's baseball shorts were 5$ there and 20$ apiece everywhere else.) BUT, THIS IS the ACTIVISM FORUM! I want to point out why the shorts were only 5$ at WM...... there overhead is lower for more reasons than "it is a big chain." They cut costs everywhere, including where it hurts it's human workers..... whether it be in our country in a store or another country in a sweatshop.








Michelle

But you did say that people who shop there are uninformed. That, imo, is being judgemental.


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## edamommy

in years! And we live on a budget. I think it's just convienant and some folks may just say that to defend it's convienance.?


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## KirstenMary

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vegiemom*
in years! And we live on a budget. I think it's just convienant and some folks may just say that to defend it's convienance.?

It is convenient, but it's also the cheapest game in town for me. Why would I pay $7.99 for diaper cream at my local pharmacy when I can get the exact same thing at Wal-Fart for $3.50???? While I would love to support local business, that act is not going to put food on my table.

And I _am_ informed. My sister worked there. I have several students who work there. Wal-Fart sends workers to our Adult Basic Education Program and pays them to attend classes. I have heard great things from Wal-Fart employees. Not all Wal-Farts are evil.


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## mamadodson

I agree with walmart not being so bad...As far as employees being treated badly...where do you get this info, from a few employees who didnt like the way they were treated..boohoo...did you personally work at walmart...probably not, if you have enough money to boycott walmart and shop at pricey competitors then obviously you have never worked at walmart therefore you have no room to say anything about how people are treated...This thread really disturbs me...I think people take what a handful of people say to literally without correct facts to support their feelings...I agree not all walmarts are evil...and who cares where anyone else shops people shop where it is feasable for them to expense wise...no one is better then anyone because they can afford to boycott walmart


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## IdentityCrisisMama

Look, there are at least two issues going on here.

One is that some people may really have to shop at Walmart, another is that Walmart is not a place that most parents would, dare I say should, want to support.

But, this thread shouldn't be only about Walmart. It should be about being a conscious consumer and I firmly believe that someone that does necessity shopping at Wamart can be more conscious and less damaging than someone that doesn't ever set foot in the place.

That said, please do a search through this thread about WM or do one of your own before accusing anyone of not having the correct facts, K?


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## mamadodson

k, what?

I thoroughly read this entire thread...and there are people here whom are discriminating about the work ethics at walmart just because of what they heard, not there own personal experience...so that is why I said what I did...and I toally agree this thread shouldnt be all about walmart...but as in the title, you will see that it is...so maybe you should read the whole thread starting with the title.....!!!!!!


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## TiredX2

Quote:

whom are discriminating about the work ethics at walmart just because of what they heard, not there own personal experience
Well, I'm willing to take the word of 1.6 MILLION women who are involved in the current lawsuit. I don't really consider a single positive personal experience to have more weight than that.

Quote:

if you have enough money to boycott walmart and shop at pricey competitors then obviously you have never worked at walmart therefore you have no room to say anything about how people are treated...
This really rubbed me wrong. Just because I have never *worked* at Wal-Mart before does NOT mean I have "no room to say anything about how people are treated." There are a lot of people who don't make the big $$$ but still boycott Wal-Mart, pretending that is not true is neither helpful or honest. I remember well the days of having less than $150 monthly for food & "stuff" (tp, clothes, etc...).


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## mamadodson

ok...out of those 1.6 million women..how many of them really just are in the lawsuit mainly just to get a paycheck....hmmm? makes you wonder huh


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## the sunshine

Wooooo!!!! We have another feminist in our midst!!!

Not.


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## Autumnschild

I also find the title of this thread to be offensive. I shop at Walmart and will be the first to admit it. I also shop at the dollar stores and the (3) second-hand/thrift stores in town. Garage sales aren't an easy task this summer, with a new baby and a 2 year old, but I've made it to a few. Walmart gets my business because the prices are reasonable and one-stop shopping has it's appeal to a harried mother. I support the local butcher (dh must have his meat!) and besides that, there aren't any local grocers to give my business to. This town is small and my options are limited. But even if they weren't, I wouldn't like to be judged by where I shop! It's ridiculous. Employees at Taco Bell make crap for wages, but I still get my kid tacos there...what kind of standards are we trying to live up to?

Sheri - loving momma to Sophia and baby Claire


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## huggerwocky

...we don't have super walmarts here anyway, so that question doesn't evena rise

I buy my stuff at cub foods, better quality and is cheaper than super target,too

as for clothes etc: never understood why anyone would buy anything from wal-mart if you can get brand name clothes of a much betetr quality for the same price during sale times..or maybe it's juts that I'm living in a shopping centre and have too many places to choose from


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## huggerwocky

Quote:


Originally Posted by *weebitty2*









.

Yep, the wages are crappy. But you know what? They're not that hot anywhere else, either. VERY FEW companies that provide retail or grocery services pay a living wage - as a matter of fact, the only one that I can think of is Trader Joe's.
OT : littleaugustbaby - i







the quote in your sig!


ever heard of Aldi? They are very cheap AND pay very well considering it's a grocery chain.but then they are not hat big and don't have stores everywhere


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## huggerwocky

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadodson*
I agree with walmart not being so bad...As far as employees being treated badly...where do you get this info, from a few employees who didnt like the way they were treated..boohoo...did you personally work at walmart...probably not, if you have enough money to boycott walmart and shop at pricey competitors then obviously you have never worked at walmart therefore you have no room to say anything about how people are treated...This thread really disturbs me...I think people take what a handful of people say to literally without correct facts to support their feelings...I agree not all walmarts are evil...and who cares where anyone else shops people shop where it is feasable for them to expense wise...no one is better then anyone because they can afford to boycott walmart










I can't really agree on this. It is absolutely possible to judge a situation without having been there yourself....though this might not be true for EVERYTHING, it is certainly true for things like store policies,wages,benefits etc...


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## Peppamint

Quote:


Originally Posted by *huggerwocky*
ever heard of Aldi? They are very cheap AND pay very well considering it's a grocery chain.but then they are not hat big and don't have stores everywhere

I used to go there, but had to wait in line forever. That was before I had kids... I'm not brave enough or broke enough to wait in line for 30 minutes to save a couple dollars. If I had to, I would but thankfully I don't.


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## girlzmommy00

I actually live in an area where we don't have Walmart (they haven't invaded everywhere yet). No farmers market either. We also don't have thrift stores, but just consignment shops. The consignment shops mark the "used" clothing up so much, that I can buy cheaper things on sale at the Gap than used there. After seeing those prices, I skip the consignment shops all together with. We have small mom & pop health food stores but no Trader Joe's or Whole Foods. It's hard to find a large selection of organic foods here beyond the tofu at the grocery store. Garage sales are great in theory but with 3 children, doesn't work so well.

I buy clothing from Ebay or watch the sales at the Gap and the outlets (I found leggings at the Gap that were 47 cents last year and jeans for $75 cents, this wasn't the outlet). I also have 3 children of the same sex, so there is a lot of handing down going on here.

I shop at the grocery store for food and again, just watch sales and coupons. I do receive food stamps so I only have certain stores that I can shop at who accept them. I just hit the grocery store this evening and saved 67% with coupons(they tally it for you at the bottom of your receipt).

I think that it all depends not only on your income but what stores you have available to you. It does sound like for some, Walmart is the only option. Personally, it's not even an option for me (like it or not) so I just search out any and every sale. I refuse to pay full price.


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## jeca

:

so where do you buy cheap TP and household goods oh and food too, certainly not albertsons. Not rally an issue since I shop commissary but I do visit hellmart occasionally,.


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## magnoliablue

I have tried to stay true to my convictions of not supporting big corporations, boycotting sweatshop labor, buying organics, etc.. I have done this even when my budget is far from able to support these choices. It may in the end make the world a better place, but not unless everyone is doing it.

I get criticized for choosing places like Trader Joes and Whole Foods because some people feel I don't have the money to shop there. So I guess because they think that way, I have to compromise principles and another person's lifestyle by shopping at a place that either pays their workers substandard wages or uses sweatshop labor? I might save a few bucks, but at what cost to these people?

Its tough to keep my principles on a 125.00 food budget for 2 adults, three kids, 2 cats and a bird. I go through laundry soap like you wouldnt believe. But I bought the big bottle of Dr. Bronners almost 6 months ago, and it is still half full.

I do shop consignment shops and yard sales for clothes all the time, and when the kids need new, I go to Target..which is really not much better than WalMart, or Kohls when there is a sale.

I might only get to Whole Foods or Trader Joes once a month, in between I go to a little mom and pop grocer with the greatest meats and produce selection around..somehow they manage to keep their prices lower than the chain grocery stores..they have been in business since they immigrated to America from Italy in 1920..so they know the best buyers and get great deals.

If we compromise our ideals because we can't do it, either because of our budget or no other options, then sadly, things will never take a turn for the better, and those of us boycotting and making these choices to hopefully make the world a better place for our kids are banging our heads against the wall. I am not trying to guilt anyone into changing, I do understand it is hard, but the less we do to make the change in the world, the less likely it will.


----------



## huggerwocky

Quote:


Originally Posted by *busybusymomma*
I used to go there, but had to wait in line forever. That was before I had kids... I'm not brave enough or broke enough to wait in line for 30 minutes to save a couple dollars. If I had to, I would but thankfully I don't.


oh, is it that bad? It's fine here if you go during the day time, but don't try during the weekends...too full!







:


----------



## huggerwocky

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlzmommy00*
I actually live in an area where we don't have Walmart (they haven't invaded everywhere yet). No farmers market either. .


you don't have wal-mart? Are you kidding? where do you live...on Mars?









just kidding..


----------



## DebraBaker

It's only been in the past twoish years that I knew where a Walmart was located.

Perhaps that's why I don't feel the need to shop there, I got by well without one lo these many years.

db


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## IdentityCrisisMama

So true! It's hella east to avoid shopping at WM when you don't know how to get there, LOL!


----------



## EyesOfTheWorld

I noticed in this thread that alot of people mentioned shopping sales at the Gap as an alternative to Wal-mart. Isn't the Gap just as bad (or worse) as far as sweatshop labor?

In all honesty, I think most big chains are pretty horrible. However, shopping at them in most areas and on most budgets is unavoidable.


----------



## jannan

there is not even a walmart in sf. i went to the one in sac when i visited my mother. it is junky. i don't like it . it is too bright and visually stimulating. and it was hot. but if i was on a limited budget i would definately shop there and pray to god for forgiveness.


----------



## AahRee

I'm a SAHM and I don't usually shop at the stuff-mart, but that's mostly because Target is closer. Honestly, short of buying everything at mom and pop stores (which I'd love to do, but definitely can't afford), I don't know how you can truly avoid shopping at a place like wal-mart, target, etc. I do resent the implication, though, that it is only, or even mostly, SAHMs who shop there. There are PLENTY of two-income families who also shop at wal-mart.


----------



## Peppamint

That is very true. I see lots of families who can afford to shop wherever they like that spend a lot of money at walmart (whether two income or just doing well on one income). My MIL is financially sound and she loves to shop at walmart. Sometimes she goes there for something to do!









Me on the other hand, I rarely go there for a variety of reasons. Over the past four years I've gone from shopping there weekly to shopping about monthly. We only buy TP (for dh mostly), distilled water (I'm prone to kidney stones now







) and our contact disinfectant ($7 a bottle at WM and way more at CVS which is just as bad IMO) and I usually make dh go because I hate it so much!









Kroger bought out all but one of our local groceries, so even though they didn't change the name they are Kroger stores. The other store is a chain, but only in my state I think. Four years ago we had four different stores to choose from. We do have three local pharmacies all owned by the same man and CVS and Walgreens. Little by little it's all disappearing.


----------



## famousmockngbrd

It's probably way too late to point this out, but I noticed some people a while back saying they buy disposable diapers at Wal-Mart - Target has the cheapest diaper prices.







Better yet, pick up some used prefolds on the TP! But I understand some people have laundry problems, etc.

I haven't shopped at Walmart in two years. I used to shop there all the time. Ironically, this was back when DH and I were a two income, childless couple. Now that I am a SAHM I never go there.









You know, some people don't have a lot of job options. I think it's a little heartless to say "Well, nobody is forcing you to work there, if you don't like it go somewhere else." It may not be that simple. What if Walmart is the only place that will accomodate your schedule so you can be home with your kids when they get home from school? What if it's a choice between working at McDonald's or Walmart? What if you don't have a car and Walmart is the only place you can get to that would hire you? I guess it could be argued that such a person should be grateful to Walmart for providing them with a job, but that doesn't mean they should put up with all kinds of crap from them, too. These types of people are the ones who need us to advocate for them the most, because they have no power and are afraid to speak up anyway for fear they will lose their job. Being poor and having limited options does not mean your employer gets to throw labor rights out the window.

Even if Walmart was the greatest employer in the land, I would still not shop there because of the way they deliberately force out small businesses, etc. You know, for most people, if you really don't want to shop there, you don't have to. Some people may really have no other feasible choice but I think in most cases, it's a matter of convenience more than anything else.


----------



## pln

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadodson*
ok...out of those 1.6 million women..how many of them really just are in the lawsuit mainly just to get a paycheck....hmmm? makes you wonder huh

Um, no. Actually it makes me wonder how many paychecks or raises or promotions they were denied, and where you get your information.

Not all people who "need" to shop at Wal-Mart do so. That's what this thread is trying to point out. We don't go to Wal-Mart. I don't like the way they treat their employees, the sweatshops they own in the Third World, their anti-union policies, and the way they have bankrupted many small businesses in the US and abroad, retailers and producers. We choose to buy fewer things and to buy locally when we can afford it.

However, for some people, Wal-Mart is the cheapest game in town. THose people have to shop there (I guess). I see my boycott as making up for one of those people.


----------



## huggerwocky

don't understand is why people say wal-mart is the cheapest

Aldi is cheaper,Target is cheaper...and the Pop is always 20 $ less at cub foods.

Wal Mart has ugly designs, cheap quality clothes and looks dirty,too

tc,


----------



## huggerwocky

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EyesOfTheWorld*
I noticed in this thread that alot of people mentioned shopping sales at the Gap as an alternative to Wal-mart. Isn't the Gap just as bad (or worse) as far as sweatshop labor?

In all honesty, I think most big chains are pretty horrible. However, shopping at them in most areas and on most budgets is unavoidable.


well,i'd love to buy clothes at non-chains tores but could find many so far in the twin cities, it was normal for me to do at least half of my shopping in europe at individually owned stores , i msis it a lot because i also keep on thinking that everybody wears the same *sigh*


----------



## jeca

Quote:


Originally Posted by *huggerwocky*
don't understand is why people say wal-mart is the cheapest

Aldi is cheaper,Target is cheaper...and the Pop is always 20 $ less at cub foods.

Wal Mart has ugly designs, cheap quality clothes and looks dirty,too

tc,

hwta's an ALDI? if we're talking about clothes than I don't know, I rarely buy new clothes but I've been to target and they are not cheaper here as far as TP, soap, toys, books or anything else.


----------



## root*children

The OP was talking just about clothes, books and stuff, right? I'd totally agree that all this stuff can be bought at thrift strores/yardsales, etc. Think you have too many kids and yardsaling isn't reality for you? Read the Tightwad Gazette, she's got 6 kids and does it regularly!

Walmart is definatly cheaper than Target. I've price checked their food, and Walmart wins. I don't know about Aldi, though. That's not really a common store. I don't know of any that are closer than 8 hrs. away.

OTHO, my goal is to be as frugal as possible and not have to shop at Walmart. So right now I'm going there at most once a month. We only buy TP, crackers (the $1/box Ritz knock-offs that DH *can't* live without







), and sometimes cheese (they offer the lowest price around - even compared to our mail-order buying club - on rennet-free cheese). Oh, and also photo-developing is cheapest there. Everything else food-wise, I've found I can keep a price book and buy things only on sale at regular groceries and buy in bulk. Enough to last until the next sale.

BTW, Walmart did just start selling their own brand of Organic Soymilk for $2.12/half-gallon. If I wasn't already stocked up with 8 cases of Silk from the Kroger sale, I'd probably be buying that too.


----------



## grisandole

I love Aldi! They are cheaper than Walmart on many food items.......but, they aren't all over. I know we don't have them here in AZ. Food4Less was another one of my favorites when I lived in CA, not sure where else they are.

Like I said before, I didn't shop WalMart much when I lived in cities/suburbs. There were many other choices. Unfortunately, all we have here (within a 3hour radius) is WalMart and Safeway, and Safeway is way more expensive unless there's a good sale. There is a tiny discount grocery place, and I go there twice a month, but their prices are actually more than WalMart on most things, too (they sell dented and close to expiriation date canned and packaged food). They only have good prices on organics.

Kristi


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## fourgrtkidos

As the OP, ....... would some moderator _PLEASE_ kill this thread allready!!!









Thank you!
















-Michelle Geeze, everytime I see it come up on the board I feel like I am stuck in pergatory or something. I have repented of starting this thread a million times!!!!! Please, I beg you, die!


----------



## jeca

I can kill it!!

vagina.....







:


----------



## fourgrtkidos

:














:







:














:

Thank you jeca!!!!


----------



## magnoliablue

I can try to, but I'll probably get myself banned for a day...lol. Or at least get a severe PM.


----------



## famousmockngbrd

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourgrtkidos*
everytime I see it come up on the board I feel like I am stuck in pergatory or something. I have repented of starting this thread a million times!!!!! Please, I beg you, die!

:LOL







Sorry!


----------



## TiredX2

Quote:

vagina.....
adding in







should get it pulled ASAP







:

edited to add:

When did "finger sex" stop working?


----------



## Aherne

oh good (on the idea of killing the thread)... my blood was starting to boil.


----------



## jeca

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
When did "finger sex" stop working?
















well, I don't know about on you, but it's never done a thing for me.


----------



## TiredX2

:


----------



## Montana Mom

Because of the snazzy commercials...


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## DebraBaker

Commercials? Like the ones that make SAHM's look like braying asses??


----------



## TiredX2

Thanks for bumping this so I can laugh at Jeca's post again. :LOL


----------



## tj25

I didn't read the whole thread but I just wanted to add my opinion. I think there are lots of generalized comments in this thread. Even just in the first page I read. I worked for Target and Walmart in the last 8 years. And guess what?? Walmart paid me more! Guaranteed Target was more fun to work at, but nothing at Walmart was bad for me. I stood up for myself. I got the money and the job I wanted because I asked for it. In each job I have been in everyone says oh they only give 10 cent raises or such. Well I got a buck every single time I asked for it. I deserved it and the employers knew it. Maybe if people worked harder and enjoyed their jobs they would get paid better. My philos. has always been that when I don't enjoy going to work I should find a new one. So I think the lame excuse that they don't pay well is the employees fault. I agree with the pp that said its your choice to work there. And I love shopping period no matter where it's at. And I don't understand why you don't slam Target or KMart or such...they all buy the same products from the supply or manufacturer...What's the difference??


----------



## DebraBaker

When my daughter turned 14 she got a job at the local garden center.

She made more than the average Walmart employee.

db


----------



## meco

Quote:


Originally Posted by *huggerwocky*
you don't have wal-mart? Are you kidding? where do you live...on Mars?









just kidding..


Or NYC. Thank God we have no Wal Mart or Target here. There is a Target in Brooklyn. But in Manhattan we have been spared the Wal Mart sprawl.

And yes, what a fun thread to revive :LOL


----------



## luvtjones

I just wanted to point out most of the "biggie" stores have their problems. I've seen people mention that they go to Whole Foods or Wild Oats...both are virulently anti-union and their anti-labor and harassment practices, though not quite up to par as Wal-Mart's, are disturbing and wretched nonetheless.

I shop at Walmart because I save my time and energy for other causes that are important to *me* personally. Yes, I feel guilty when I shop there. But I also have bought Proctor & Gamble products, and shopped at Wild Oats, and bought non-US made clothes. I try my best but the reality is that the four of us living on a teacher's salary sometimes means that I have to look at our budget over other things.

And yes, I do buy used whenever I can, or trade, or accept hand me downs.


----------



## julielenore

People on these threads keeps saying that they shop at Walmart because it is the "only" option. Don't you realise that every penny that you spend is a statement? If you support local business, then Walmart won't be the only option. Your dollars keep the other businesses afloat.
Also, maybe you don't "need" that febreeze cd player, or that swiffer or most of the other useless crap that Walmart thrives on.


----------



## grisandole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *julielenore*
People on these threads keeps saying that they shop at Walmart because it is the "only" option. Don't you realise that every penny that you spend is a statement? If you support local business, then Walmart won't be the only option. Your dollars keep the other businesses afloat.
Also, maybe you don't "need" that febreeze cd player, or that swiffer or most of the other useless crap that Walmart thrives on.

What if there aren't any "local" businesses that sell household products and clothes? What if the only other option is Kmart, which isn't really any better than walmart? What if you're over three hours away from options?


----------



## julielenore

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grisandole*
What if there aren't any "local" businesses that sell household products and clothes? What if the only other option is Kmart, which isn't really any better than walmart? What if you're over three hours away from options?

Then I guess that it is too late for your town, but I am lucky. Walmart has only been here for two years, but I have seen the stores close, and I am not going to be part of the problem.


----------



## momto l&a

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeca*







:

so where do you buy cheap TP and household goods oh and food too, certainly not albertsons. Not rally an issue since I shop commissary but I do visit hellmart occasionally,.

We buy our tp at Costco, but being Costco doesnt carry my favorite paper towels I buy those at Costco.

Our food we buy at a canned food outlet, Costco, and regular grocery store.

Everything else is Wal-mart


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## Mama Bee

We moved to DC about two years ago and it's quite a hike to the nearest Wal-Mart. I quit going and have never looked back. I don't know whether or not I'll go back to it when it's more convenient but I hope I can stay away. I have only been to Target twice since the beginning of the year- once was on a specific mission for a homebirth supply. The thing is, I don't use many items from those places anymore. I do my grocery shopping at the commissary (for non- organic, non-parishables, and the two commercial cleaning products I use), I shop at Whole Foods for organic groceries and meat, and I use local CSA (community supported agriculture) for as much produce as I can. Not shopping at Wal-Mart and Target have cut back on my consumerism tremendously! It's so nice not having to shop at those places.


----------



## AnnMarie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *julielenore*
People on these threads keeps saying that they shop at Walmart because it is the "only" option. Don't you realise that every penny that you spend is a statement? If you support local business, then Walmart won't be the only option. Your dollars keep the other businesses afloat.
Also, maybe you don't "need" that febreeze cd player, or that swiffer or most of the other useless crap that Walmart thrives on.

We don't even have local businesses that sell what Walmart does. Come to my city if you don't believe me. :LOL We have NOTHING here except 2 big name grocery stores, Walmart, and Kmart. A few specialty shops that all close around 5PM, and that's about it; besides bars. If I want to go to the mall I have to drive almost 2 hours to get to one. I HATE this town and I can't wait to sell my house and get out of here. But I'll still probably have to shop at Walmart or Kmart because I'm poor. That's really the bottom line for a lot of us. $$$


----------



## Medusa

I live in a very small town...and as of next week Walmart will have killed the last local grocery story.
Which means in the winter months (when the farmers market is closed ) there will be *NO WHERE* but walmart to shop









So for all of you out there who claim "You *HAVE* to shop at walmart." Keep it up and you'll find it to be true.


----------



## AnnMarie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Medusa*
So for all of you out there who claim "You *HAVE* to shop at walmart." Keep it up and you'll find it to be true.

Exactly what other stores are we supposed to shop at if all we have is Walmart, Kmart, and 2 other big name grocery stores? Thrift stores? Can't buy toilet paper and food there. We don't have any locally owned grocery stores. And what about those that don't have the money to shop elsewhere? What other types of stores are people supposed to shop at? Seriously because I don't have a clue because we have nothing here. What other stores would be a good choice?

Don't be so mad at us because that IS the only place we have to shop, or because we can't afford to shop anywhere else. Be mad at Walmart for the way they treat the people that work for them, and all the other beefs you have with them, and try to change that.

Oh, and the "farmers market" here is a joke. It's not like the one where I used to live where people actually sold food. :LOL It's like a little flea market.


----------



## Medusa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AnnMarie*
Exactly what other stores are we supposed to shop at if all we have is Walmart, Kmart, and 2 other big name grocery stores? Thrift stores? Can't buy toilet paper and food there. We don't have any locally owned grocery stores. And what about those that don't have the money to shop elsewhere? What other types of stores are people supposed to shop at? Seriously because I don't have a clue because we have nothing here. What other stores would be a good choice?

Don't be so mad at us because that IS the only place we have to shop, or because we can't afford to shop anywhere else. Be mad at Walmart for the way they treat the people that work for them, and all the other beefs you have with them, and try to change that.

Oh, and the "farmers market" here is a joke. It's not like the one where I used to live where people actually sold food. :LOL It's like a little flea market.









AnneMarie, don't get me wrong...I'm in the same boat you are. I either have to start shopping at Walmart or move to a differant town. Honestly I think shopping at even a big chain grocery store is a better choice than Walmart.

I AM mad at Walmart! From where I stand it looks like their doing their Level best to destroy small towns.
I feel pretty trapped because the only way I can see getting Walmart to change is mass boycotts (which obviously ain't happenin'). As long as we keep giving them our money there going to keep doing what ever they want...which in the long run leaves people like you and me without the option of boycotting them.

My orginal post was intended as more of a warning for those who still have options...literaly use 'em or lose 'em.


----------



## julielenore

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Medusa*
So for all of you out there who claim "You *HAVE* to shop at walmart." Keep it up and you'll find it to be true.


----------



## AnnMarie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Medusa*
Honestly I think shopping at even a big chain grocery store is a better choice than Walmart.

I agree, and that is where I do almost all of my grocery shopping, but for clothing and other items it's Walmart or Kmart.


----------



## Peppamint

I love get good deals on the clearance rack at Eddie Bauer, but half the clothes there are made in countries I'm not even aware of







:. So in terms of Fair Trade, I guess it's better (maybe) for the employees, but not necessarily better in terms of the origins of the products.

70% OF WAL-MART PRODUCTS NOW MADE IN CHINA (I assume that does not include any other countries where items are produced using slave labor







)


----------



## Viola

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AnnMarie*
Exactly what other stores are we supposed to shop at if all we have is Walmart, Kmart, and 2 other big name grocery stores?

Kmart, big chain grocery stores. :LOL I just try not to put all my eggs in one basket. I'm not quite as good at boycotting and perhaps I'm just not as passionate. I often buy toiletries at the grocery store because it works out to be cheaper in the long run for me (since I'm not good about not buying other things when I go to Target or the like).

We have a Trader Joe's here, and I buy toilet paper there. My husband hates that kind of toilet paper, so he buys the kind he likes at the grocery store. He refuses to set foot at any store like Wal-Mart, Target or KMart just because he doesn't want to stand in the lines or deal with the parking lot. He'd probably order it online if he could (and he actually could, I'm sure, but I won't bring that up to him.







).


----------



## Red

So, Walmart came to my town a few years back. People fought it, said it would shut down the local businesses.

WHAT local businesses? We haven't had a store for over 15 years that sold department type goods, clothes, shoes, laundry items, etc. FOr 15 years, it was either drive to Ames, a small, really dirty Ames that closed a year or so before Walmart even opened, or to drive 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes, EACH WAY, to go to a mall that had a Bradlees, or the other one that has a JC Penney. Even going all that way there wasn't anywhere else....and I live in Mass. Wouldn't you think we'd have LOADS of great stores, everywhere?

I dont' like Walmart. But where else can I get the dog food? The supermarket is a big chain, is it any better? The dog food sure is more expensive there. So are cat food and laundry detergent, etc. And YES, we do need those things.

I do shop at the smaller food coops, and try to get my veggies, eggs and meat from local sources.

Oh, and no businesses shut down. Cause there weren't any. But a new one did open up. The woman has her house right near the driveway to Walmart and sells things Walmart wouldn't. Flowers and crafts, etc.


----------



## Viola

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Red*
I dont' like Walmart. But where else can I get the dog food? The supermarket is a big chain, is it any better? The dog food sure is more expensive there. So are cat food and laundry detergent, etc. And YES, we do need those things.

I'm not a huge fan of grocery stores or unions, I guess, but it seems like grocery stores pay their employees more, perhaps because many grocery stores have a union presence. My sister has worked for two different grocery chains (Giant and Shopper's Food Warehouse) and she chose to join the union in each store. The union seems kind of weird to me because it offers benefits, but it doesn't actually seem to protect her from certain things that I would think it should. On the other hand, she definitely makes more money than she would working at KMart or Wal-Mart at her level.


----------



## Benji'sMom

Someone asked about A/C our homes:

I sure do - when it's 99 degrees outside with 99% humidity, I'm not going to let my house turn into an oven!


----------



## DebraBaker

I am a different person now that I have centra AC.

I would give up heat in winter before cool in summer.

db


----------



## grisandole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Red*
So, Walmart came to my town a few years back. People fought it, said it would shut down the local businesses.

WHAT local businesses? We haven't had a store for over 15 years that sold department type goods, clothes, shoes, laundry items, etc. FOr 15 years, it was either drive to Ames, a small, really dirty Ames that closed a year or so before Walmart even opened, or to drive 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes, EACH WAY, to go to a mall that had a Bradlees, or the other one that has a JC Penney. Even going all that way there wasn't anywhere else....and I live in Mass. Wouldn't you think we'd have LOADS of great stores, everywhere?

I dont' like Walmart. But where else can I get the dog food? The supermarket is a big chain, is it any better? The dog food sure is more expensive there. So are cat food and laundry detergent, etc. And YES, we do need those things.

I do shop at the smaller food coops, and try to get my veggies, eggs and meat from local sources.

Oh, and no businesses shut down. Cause there weren't any. But a new one did open up. The woman has her house right near the driveway to Walmart and sells things Walmart wouldn't. Flowers and crafts, etc.

This is how it is/was where I live, too. As it is, I have to drive 45 minutes just to get to the WalMart. Before it came, people would drive 3.5 hours to Phoenix to shop.

Safeway does have some stuff like toiletries and dog food.....but not clothes or household stuff, yk?

Kristi


----------



## Autumnschild

Our town is the same. There are very few small businesses, and in the past six months I have stopped shopping at Walmart and have taken my business to the small local businesses, as few as they are. We will be getting a Target soon, but the Kmart is already going out of business. The economy is bad here. The only thing that I see these superstores offering are jobs, which are scarce. I don't know. I don't agree with it, but I don't have a solution either.


----------



## luvtjones

Wal-Mart is one of the most profitable corporations in the world. I honestly don't believe that unless a mass movement/boycott happens against this company, that the few who do boycott will have any significant impact. I believe that the fight against Wal-Mart will be most effective in the court system and any changes that happen will be because of court battles that are won.


----------



## fourgrtkidos

I am the OP and I thought I killed this thread long ago?


----------



## TiredX2

Quote:

I honestly don't believe that unless a mass movement/boycott happens against this company, that *the few who do boycott will have any significant impact.*
Even if Wal-Mart never changes, if their business practices continue, they put small (and even large long-term) businesses out of business, if they keep their employees down and continue to siphon off the US's $ through tax loopholes and exploitation of the welfare system *there* will have been a significant impact for MY family...

We will have fought against it and not contributed to this downfall.

And sometimes, if that is the only outcome, at least you have that.


----------



## Book Addict Jen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DebraBaker*
If you're into natural living you can cut the diaper costs, the paper towel costs and the paper plates-cups costs you can even get rid of pads and tampons but you really can't work your way around toilet

We have been using cloth wipes for over a year now. I love it. I hate using public restrooms. I just don't feel as clean with TP.


----------



## Peppamint

Yeah, TP (especially the stuff in public restrooms that my dad calls Sandpaper Grade :LOL) just doesn't leave you feeling as clean. Sometimes I use a damp diaper washcloth and sometimes I use the peri bottle and dry off with a diaper washcloth.

BTW... the peri bottle is a great way to rinse off when you're on your period. I use a Mooncup and between the Mooncup and my peri bottle I use waaaay less TP/cloth wipes that I would otherwise.


----------



## captain crunchy

I only use wal-mart for my our prescriptions







: because we don't have insurance and they are literally over 50$ cheaper combined each month....and I rarely buy anything else unless I have a very short, written list that I STICK TO...because yes, some things are less expensive and while I am there sometimes I pick up a couple of things (which I am not too proud of)...but I REFUSE to be one of those people who goes in for one thing and comes out with a cartful of absolute crap.

The last thing I bought there (besides the prescriptions) was a 20 pack of washcloths for about $4 which was a great deal and prevents the use of paper products which we have all but cut out... so that was worth it to me...

Hopefully when we get into a better financial situation or insurance we can cut the prescriptions all together from there...so I don't NEED it to be a sahm but when you add up that over $600 a year in savings from prescriptions..well...


----------



## alliegad

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourgrtkidos*
I am the OP and I thought I killed this thread long ago?









Some things never die, momma.







You know it!

I'm a wal-mart shopper and I am SO not ashamed of it. Please. I don't *have* to shop there-- but I like to spend OUR extra dollars from the MONEY that we do save from shopping at WalMart on things like-- christmas/bday gifts, nice dinners out on weekends once in a while, date nights in general, and heck-- our IRA's 529 plans. Not that we save thousands and thousands of dollars but it does add up. I'm not into getting the "nicest" stuff from the "nicest" places. That's now where we're at in life right now. We are not poor, and we are not nearly rolling in the dough, but it is a choice that comes down to financial frugality-- if that's a word!







It is a choice that we made and continue to make each time we go to wal mart, several times a month.
Target, in my opinion is not much better, I say that only b/c I worked there in a distribution center (not a retail store) and know some of the "stuff" that goes on with them. Very cult-ish. Very... um... shall we say- inappropriate in many ways. So knowing what I know and experiencing what I've experienced with the evil red T, I continue to shop at and support WalMart.
I do love to garage sale and browse consignment stores, but as it's been said a zillion times in this thread, it's hard to find 3T in consignment, and rummage sales are not year round here in Wisconsin. Toilet paper, personal hygiene items and other "stuff" is not available second-hand.
That is why I/we "insist" on shopping at wal mart.


----------



## Cullens_Girl

This has been a very interesting thread to peruse through. I'm glad I live in an area where the are soo many other alternatives on where to shop. Just as recently as a few months ago I was in there (before I researched and realized how family oriented it was NOT) I was asked to leave a dressing room for nursing my son in there. I got up and went next door to target. I'm lucky that I can spend that few extra dollars. DH hates walmart and wondered why I was shopping there to begin with. Used consigment clothes are a higher quality then the some of the things I can get at Walmart.


----------



## desertpenguin

Well, as far as grocery stores, we don't have a lot of options around here. There's Albertson's, the health food store, and some smaller rink-a-dink stores on the other side of town. DH does not like to shop at Albertson's. He doesn't like to shop at the health food store because it's too expensive, they don't have an extensive selection because organic isn't in high demand in this town, and I've yet to convince him to get a membership (20$ annually) for the 10% discount, even though we've started shopping there more frequently since ds was born. As far as clothes go, Walmart associates get a 10% discount (on anything but groceries.







go figure.) We mostly only buy ds's clothing there.


----------



## Losgann

We shop a little bit everywhere and usually hit Walmart as a quickie stop when we are out of something or just to get a quick something for dinner if we're having a busy day. I've really cut down on how much shopping I do at one place just because I've found we get better deals by shopping around, and shopping smarter.

I went with a mooncup to get rid of the monthly trip to Walmart for pads. Best thing I ever did!

We go to the little pagan shop in town for stuff like toothpaste, deodorant stones, probiotics and incense.

We get our Bronners soap and our shampoo (dh likes Jason's tea tree oil shampoo) at Kroger.

We buy all the kids clothes at Once Upon a Child about twice a year- once for warm weather and again for cold. That's about $500 a year, much cheaper than if we bought everything off the rack at Walmart.

My ds has food issues- he can have zero casein and we severely limit corn and Red 40 food dye as well as wheat to some degree. We can easily spend $400 a month on groceries FOR HIM ALONE what with his food issues and finding stuff he will actually EAT. We do most of his grocery shopping at Central Market, Kroger and Whole Foods, and we gave up our Sam's membership for our bulk items at Costco's a little farther distance the other way. The people were friendlier and there is more selection at Costco's. By the time we're done shopping for ds it leaves very little left over so we try to make it stretch. Sometimes Walmart is all we can afford and still get what we feel is important.

We've found that buying the few little things here and there at Walmart (toilet paper, cat food, etc) saves a few dollars so that we can afford other things we need or want from other 'better' places. Though we are slowly cutting down the walmart trips for the 99cents only grocery store that just opened down the street..

Eventually I think we'll be Walmart free. I like getting out of the house and shopping around better than finding everything in one store. But that's just me! I don't drive so grocery shopping is the only time I really get out of the house.


----------



## Cullens_Girl

I must live in a more urban area. I am in driving distance to two stop & shops, and two shaw's as well as 2 locally owned grocerettes. All the stop and shop's and shaw's have organic foods... I really don't have to look far for anything. I don't buy bulk because of space issues.


----------



## Treasuremapper

I just want to mention for those with Albertsons, they have higher prices overall but they also have excellent deals. Many of my coupon buddies and I have scored literally hundreds of dollars in free groceries from Albertsons on their special double/triple coupon deals or with the big "bandaid deal" they had last week.

As a SAHM, I still don't get the focus on SAHMs. Actually, SAHMs are in a great position to learn about coupons, sales, and deals and to figure out alternatives more than working mothers, so that really doesn't make any sense to me. Is it just those hideous Walmart commercials?


----------



## the_lissa

I never shop at WalMart.


----------



## Aherne

It is interesting to continue reading this thread (MDC keeps emailing me updates, I can't help myself!)

I think with anything it is always a matter of balance. I'm buying as much as I can from a food coop which means I am supporting farmers and the local economy right at the source. I take my dollar to wherever I find the best prices and service. If I'm greeted with dirty stores and crappy service, I would for sure take my money elsewhere as well!

What I don't understand is why Target/Kmart/grocery stores are held in such an angelic light when compared to walmart. The wonderbread truck stops at the same stores on their way to walmart, so the quality of goods isn't always better. Yes, walmart is a huge company with lots of profits but so are these other places. With any job you hear horror stories of the practices, the backstabbing and feelings of being unappreciated. Walmart is no different because there are thousands of stores so now there are millions of people and there are always going to be people that ruin it for everyone. Many times it is *people* that fail, not really a company per say. Such as the person telling you not to nurse in the dressing room. How sad







You should write a letter of complaint because she had no right to do that. I've nursed sitting on the bench in the front, I've been given the biggest dressing room and been given nothing but kindness (and no, this isn't the store my husband worked at so there was no favoritism!)

Walmart *is* family friendly, and gives a huge amount of money to the communities and to disaster around the world. It is only recently that they started advertising this because people would judge. How sad that they have to stand on a soapbox and say "look at how much we give" so that people would stop thinking they don't do anything. Instead of just being the silent good guys.


----------



## mainegirl

Mom and pop stores and fewer and farther between in my town, which is why I love me some Goodwill and some farmer's markets.

ETA: Actually, come to think of it, I'd like to challenge anyone who claims Wal-Fart is the ONLY place to shop to give me their zip code and I will compile a list of alternatives for them.


----------



## sohj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mainegirl*
...ETA: Actually, come to think of it, I'd like to challenge anyone who claims Wal-Fart is the ONLY place to shop to give me their zip code and I will compile a list of alternatives for them.

























I wanted to post this myself, but I am often pressed for time and wouldn't have been able to keep my side of the bargain.


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sohj*























I wanted to post this myself, but I am often pressed for time and wouldn't have been able to keep my side of the bargain.

Oh, I'll do it. I get both bothered and challenged when people make absolute claims.

Bring those zip codes on!!!


----------



## Book Addict Jen

I would much rather stop at one place to get all my stuff cheaply, than run around to 5-6 mom & pop shops and pay more, plus the extra gas running around. I shop online a lot & would do more if shipping costs weren't so high.


----------



## grisandole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mainegirl*
Mom and pop stores and fewer and farther between in my town, which is why I love me some Goodwill and some farmer's markets.

ETA: Actually, come to think of it, I'd like to challenge anyone who claims Wal-Fart is the ONLY place to shop to give me their zip code and I will compile a list of alternatives for them.

85941. There is WalMart, and Kmart about 15minutes further than the WalMart. Kmart isn't much better IMO, and the one here is tiny w/a horrible selection.

There is a Safeway, and I do go there, but they aren't so great- they treat their employees horribly (that might just be the one here), purposely keep them under full time so they don't have to give benefits. AZ is a right to work state, so no strong union for grocery store workers.

So, find me a better place to shop


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## DebraBaker

I am profoundly blessed to have a plethora of shopping options. I don't shop at Walmart and it isn't a strain for me to live my life as though it doesn't exist at all.

We have a good assortment of "box stores" chain stores, upscale strip malls, the real mall, mom and pop stores, resale shops, and a whole foods store (wf within walking distance)

Go one county west and there is a *huge* megahuge walmart and there isn't nearly as much of a selection for shopping so I can see why some moms shop there if there isn't much in the way of choice.

DB


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grisandole*
85941. There is WalMart, and Kmart about 15minutes further than the WalMart. Kmart isn't much better IMO, and the one here is tiny w/a horrible selection.

There is a Safeway, and I do go there, but they aren't so great- they treat their employees horribly (that might just be the one here), purposely keep them under full time so they don't have to give benefits. AZ is a right to work state, so no strong union for grocery store workers.

So, find me a better place to shop









Anything that's not in 85941 has the number of miles away in parens.

*Wal-Mart Supercenter*
(928) 537-3141
5401 S White Mountain Rd
Show Low, AZ (21.5 miles from Whiteriver, AZ)

Unless I'm mistaken, you're going to Show Low to go to Wal-Mart. Since you're already traveling 20 miles away from home anyway, why not visit some of these other stores?

*Discount Grocery Stores*

*Food Box Discount Grocery*
(928) 368-4880
4367 W White Mountain Blvd
Lakeside, AZ (19.3)

*Natural/Organic Food Stores*

*Health Touch*
(928) 537-2012
4431 S White Mountain Rd # C8
Show Low, AZ Map (22.2)

*Natures Realm*
(928) 532-0359
11 E Deuce Of Clubs
Show Low, AZ Map (25.2)

*La Vida Health Foods*
(928) 367-4297
13 W White Mountain Blvd
Pinetop, AZ Map (16.1)

*Grocery Stores*

*Bashas Market*
(928) 338-4956
1001 S Supermarket Dr
Whiteriver, AZ

*Eddie's Country Store*
(928) 367-2161 1753 E White Mountain Blvd
Pinetop, AZ (16.1)

*Safeway*
(928) 367-6677
20 E White Mountain Blvd
Lakeside, AZ (17.2)

*Safeway*
(928) 532-5656
900 W Deuce Of Clubs
Show Low, AZ (25.0)

*Lakeside Bell*
(928) 368-8111
3557 W White Mountain Blvd
Lakeside, AZ (18.9)

*Thrift Stores*

*Salvation Army*
(928) 532-4673
161 E Deuce Of Clubs
Show Low, AZ (25.2)

*Mission Of Grace Thrift Shop*
(928) 537-7770
1041 E Deuce Of Clubs
Show Low, AZ (25.3)

*Canyon Creek Pawn & Retail*
(928) 537-1804
1100 E Hall # A
Show Low, AZ (25.2)

*Blue Ridge Furniture*
(928) 368-6645
3100 W White Mountain Blvd
Lakeside, AZ (18.8)

*Humane Society Thrift Store*
(928) 368-8694
3951 Rainbow Lake Dr
Lakeside, AZ (19.1)

*St Vincent De Paul*
(928) 367-2029
1525 S Mc Coy St
Pinetop, AZ (15.7)

I'm really not trying to be a pain, but have you tried Yahoo! Yellow Pages? If you're looking for alternatives it's a great way to go about getting started.

http://yp.yahoo.com/


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Diaper_Addict_Jen*
I would much rather stop at one place to get all my stuff cheaply

And so would most people, which is why locally owned and operated establishments are so hard to find close together any more, and what they do offer can't even start to compete with cheap goods made by cheap labor overseas. It's a sad, sad situation.

What's ironic in my town is all the big box stores (Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Lowes, BJs) are literally down the road from a whole slew of local businesses, yet people still go there to the boxes. I'm convinced that the Burger King IN THE PARKING LOT of the Wal-Mart helps. A very scary, symbiotic relationship that illustrates the American way of life, IMO.


----------



## DebraBaker

Oh, that's the way the Hellmart in Lancaster Co is a McD's and Arbies in the same asphalt as hellmart.

oy

db


----------



## Peppamint

Isn't Circle K a gas station? I doubt anyone wants to grocery shop there.


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *busybusymomma*
Isn't Circle K a gas station? I doubt anyone wants to grocery shop there.









Is it? Being in Maine and not Arizona, I went with what I found listed under "Grocery Stores" as I've never even heard of Circle K. No need to head-scratch at me.

I suppose the other nine listings will just have to do.


----------



## Book Addict Jen

Yes it is. Poor choice for sure.


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Diaper_Addict_Jen*
Yes it is. Poor choice for sure.

Okay - hello? I live in Maine, no Circle Ks here.

Look for the positive, please, instead of harping on the negative.


----------



## Peppamint

It was just a question. Sheesh.


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *busybusymomma*
It was just a question. Sheesh.

And it was just an answer!


----------



## Peppamint

I have suddenly seen a bunch of signs that are a red K in a white circle at gas stations. I live in Indiana. I wasn't sure if that was the same thing and it was a legitimate question. So is this one... How can a nationwide gas station be a better choice than walmart? Does that gas station sell American gasoline?

And those *9* choices may be like the supposed health food stores in my area. Two, maybe three aisles of supplements. Wonderful if you need acidopholus and don't mind paying an arm and a leg... but not so great if you're looking for food. My grocery has 1/2 of one side of one aisle of "health" foods and they always carry the weird variety of something.. like extra spicy black refried beans but no refried beans. KWIM? It's weird.









I happen to drive 30 minutes to my "co-op" which charges retail







when I can afford it but otherwise I shop at our "local" grocery store which is now owned by Kroger.

Ah, coporate America.


----------



## member

I lived on the rez in Lake Andes, SD for a while. I don't drive. There was one tiny store with moldy fruit and meat ran by a man who was full of racist drivel (regular use of "prairie n-word" could be heard daily) that I could barely walk past the place. Of course, it was independently owned, a m&p place.

I was an intern living with extened family and several other young women from all over the country. We received a food pantry allowance (don't even get me started on what we received... I could have eaten my 200+ pounds in Twizzlers) but needed to supplement so we started off going to the smaller groceries in Wagner and Corsica, which were a 20-30 minute drive each way. The $3.25 an hour (stipend) did not go far at these places and we soon ended up at the Wal-Mart in Mitchell, which was an hour each way. Wal-Mart was the only place that sold actual masa harina and queso fresco for my Chicana girlfriend too.

I digress. I hate Wal-Mart. I do, and I prefer not to shop at any of the big box stores including K-Mart, Target, and Sam's. But prioriries come and go and get reordered. At that time and in that place, shopping at Wal-Mart was a better experience than shopping with the idependent grocer. I think this whole convo/debate comes down to privilege. I got mad privilege now with my 3 block walk to my co-op and a TJ's and WO in driving distance. I order my priorities with food and consumption at the top of the list. But that's me now, I consciously made different choices before.


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *busybusymomma*
I have suddenly seen a bunch of signs that are a red K in a white circle at gas stations. I live in Indiana. I wasn't sure if that was the same thing and it was a legitimate question. So is this one... How can a nationwide gas station be a better choice than walmart? Does that gas station sell American gasoline?

And those *9* choices may be like the supposed health food stores in my area. Two, maybe three aisles of supplements. Wonderful if you need acidopholus and don't mind paying an arm and a leg... but not so great if you're looking for food. My grocery has 1/2 of one side of one aisle of "health" foods and they always carry the weird variety of something.. like extra spicy black refried beans but no refried beans. KWIM? It's weird.









I happen to drive 30 minutes to my "co-op" which charges retail







when I can afford it but otherwise I shop at our "local" grocery store which is now owned by Kroger.

Ah, coporate America.









Let me reiterate that I used a simple online yellow pages tool to look up listings near a certain zip code. I do not live in Arizona, nor have I ever been there. We do not have Circle K gas stations in Maine, so I have never seen one. Please relax on this point, I'm not saying that gas stations are good places to shop because I didn't realize that they'd be listed under "Grocery Stores" and assumed that's what they were - grocery stores. I've removed them from the list.

(sheesh!)

I can't say anything about what the health food stores in Arizona are like, again because I'm about 2600 miles away - though you are implying they might be like yours...to get ancedotal, the one in my town has a nice selection of groceries. So...?

And to be perfectly honest, I would much rather drive a little further and/or pay retail prices for something that's not from a box store. Why fuel the corporate machine if I don't have to? I never buy clothing new any more, I get everything from thrift stores and yard sales when they're in season. I'm not saying that this makes me a better person than someone who shops at a box store, but I can say that I've managed to make small changes to the way I do things that make me feel a LOT better about where my dollars are going.

People on this thread were saying that they had "no choice" but to shop at Wal-Mart and other such places...I simply do not believe that there is NO choice other than Wal-Mart. There are always other options, it's all a matter of finding them.


----------



## mainegirl

I thought perhaps I should add that the initial reason I stopped shopping at Wal-Mart (back before I became a mama) was because all of the produce I would buy there was indeed very cheap, but would go bad within 1-2 days of bringing it home. It really made me mad!


----------



## grisandole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mainegirl*
Anything that's not in 85941 has the number of miles away in parens.

*Wal-Mart Supercenter*
(928) 537-3141
5401 S White Mountain Rd
Show Low, AZ (21.5 miles from Whiteriver, AZ)

Unless I'm mistaken, you're going to Show Low to go to Wal-Mart. Since you're already traveling 20 miles away from home anyway, why not visit some of these other stores?

*Discount Grocery Stores*

*Food Box Discount Grocery*
(928) 368-4880
4367 W White Mountain Blvd
Lakeside, AZ (19.3)

*Natural/Organic Food Stores*

*Health Touch*
(928) 537-2012
4431 S White Mountain Rd # C8
Show Low, AZ Map (22.2)

*Natures Realm*
(928) 532-0359
11 E Deuce Of Clubs
Show Low, AZ Map (25.2)

*La Vida Health Foods*
(928) 367-4297
13 W White Mountain Blvd
Pinetop, AZ Map (16.1)

*Grocery Stores*

*Bashas Market*
(928) 338-4956
1001 S Supermarket Dr
Whiteriver, AZ

*Eddie's Country Store*
(928) 367-2161 1753 E White Mountain Blvd
Pinetop, AZ (16.1)

*Safeway*
(928) 367-6677
20 E White Mountain Blvd
Lakeside, AZ (17.2)

*Safeway*
(928) 532-5656
900 W Deuce Of Clubs
Show Low, AZ (25.0)

*Lakeside Bell*
(928) 368-8111
3557 W White Mountain Blvd
Lakeside, AZ (18.9)

*Thrift Stores*

*Salvation Army*
(928) 532-4673
161 E Deuce Of Clubs
Show Low, AZ (25.2)

*Mission Of Grace Thrift Shop*
(928) 537-7770
1041 E Deuce Of Clubs
Show Low, AZ (25.3)

*Canyon Creek Pawn & Retail*
(928) 537-1804
1100 E Hall # A
Show Low, AZ (25.2)

*Blue Ridge Furniture*
(928) 368-6645
3100 W White Mountain Blvd
Lakeside, AZ (18.8)

*Humane Society Thrift Store*
(928) 368-8694
3951 Rainbow Lake Dr
Lakeside, AZ (19.1)

*St Vincent De Paul*
(928) 367-2029
1525 S Mc Coy St
Pinetop, AZ (15.7)

I'm really not trying to be a pain, but have you tried Yahoo! Yellow Pages? If you're looking for alternatives it's a great way to go about getting started.

http://yp.yahoo.com/

First, I truly take issue with telling me to use the yellow pages. I am not an idiot. I am well aware of the listings you provied. However, here's some info:
I DO shop at some of those places, I never said I ONLY shop Walmart. I shop Nature's Realm when finances allow for some health food. La Vida mainly has vitamins and is pretty worthless, so I don't go there; Health Touch doesn't exist anymore. The pawn shop mainly sells jewlery, not an item I'm in the market for. The thrift stores....sure, we do browse them, however, these are not like thrift stores in regular areas, we are very rural, very poor (the entire county), so there is very, very little. In fact, your trusty list is outdated, the Salvation Army one closed a few months ago (the SA is still around, but not the thrift store) becuase they didn't have enough donations and business!

The Food Box is a total joke. All of the stuff in there is expired. All of it. It also isn't very cheap, it's almost the same price as normal, un-expired stuff. And they only have boxed/canned foods.

Eddie's country store isn't really a country store, it's a small market that caters to the tourist crowed; super high prices and extremely small selection.

Bashas I do shop, but, it is TINY! The selection is tiny. We do get some basics there, though. It is the only place to shop where we live. Safeway (which I do shop, but fail to see how they are better than walmart) is 30 minutes away, WalMart 45, the thrift stores and Natures Realm are about 50 minutes away.

We shop at multiple locations, WalMart included. There are things that we cannot get at the other stores that we can only get there. I have to run, will update later


----------



## Book Addict Jen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mainegirl*
Okay - hello? I live in Maine, no Circle Ks here.

Look for the positive, please, instead of harping on the negative.


Regardless none of those places will allow me one stop shopping. With one DS with ADD & one DD with ADHD & one DD that has wicked temper tantrums, one stop is ALL I have! I can't drag them to one store for groceries, one store for toys, one store for hardware & one store for material. You would have to comit me if I did.


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grisandole*
First, I truly take issue with telling me to use the yellow pages. I am not an idiot. I am well aware of the listings you provied.

Well...you're the one who gave me a zip code, what did you expect? It's not like I can hop in my private jet and come out there to find places in person!

:LOL

There's no need to get mad.


----------



## Peppamint

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mainegirl*
Let me reiterate that I used a simple online yellow pages tool to look up listings near a certain zip code. I do not live in Arizona, nor have I ever been there. We do not have Circle K gas stations in Maine, so I have never seen one. Please relax on this point, I'm not saying that gas stations are good places to shop because I didn't realize that they'd be listed under "Grocery Stores" and assumed that's what they were - grocery stores. I've removed them from the list.

(sheesh!)

I can't say anything about what the health food stores in Arizona are like, again because I'm about 2600 miles away - though you are implying they might be like yours...to get ancedotal, the one in my town has a nice selection of groceries. So...?

And to be perfectly honest, I would much rather drive a little further and/or pay retail prices for something that's not from a box store. Why fuel the corporate machine if I don't have to? I never buy clothing new any more, I get everything from thrift stores and yard sales when they're in season. I'm not saying that this makes me a better person than someone who shops at a box store, but I can say that I've managed to make small changes to the way I do things that make me feel a LOT better about where my dollars are going.

People on this thread were saying that they had "no choice" but to shop at Wal-Mart and other such places...I simply do not believe that there is NO choice other than Wal-Mart. There are always other options, it's all a matter of finding them.

All I meant is that you could probably put my zip code in the YP and get businesses that no longer exist or don't provide the service you would be expecting (ie. a dumb gas station or a hole-in-the-wall supplement store under "groceries").

In truth, sometimes options *are* pretty slim. I live 30 min from Indiana University... granted in a small town, but you would think more amenities would be available. I go to my grocery store and the big sign says by the front door "Produce available: 198 varieties, Organic produce available: 5 varieties". Woohoo... I worked in a library and many of my coworkers didn't know what Organic truly meant. Yup.

I do mean to go into Goodwill again soon... my brother finds great deals but when I've been in there they didn't have any clothes left in my kid's sizes and the only ones in my size were either teeny-bopper style or old lady and I don't "do" either.







Maybe if I planned ahead far enough I could get clothesthere... instead of realizing in the middle of a growth spurt that ds needs the next size up.







I did patronize a local resale shop last falland managed to pick up some items for my kids but it wasn't much cheaper (if any) than buying new clothes... so once again it comes down to the almighty dollar.

So I could do better, but I'm doing pretty darn good considering my options. I truly can't always afford to drive 30 minutes away when gas is this expensive knowing I'll possibly pay twice as much for some items. When I can afford I do it, when I can't- well, I wish things were different.

BTW, I don't fund the multimillion dollar medical industry unless it's trauma or something I just cannot treat or diagnose myself. My kids haven't been to the doctor but once in the last year, or maybe more.







I'm thankful to avoid that industry and pray I can continue!

Walmart isn't the only evil out there.


----------



## MamaFae

I am pretty sure I posted on this thread before, but time doesn't allow me to go back through 12 pages of posts to find out!

I wanted to say a couple of things. First, it disturbs me at the intolerance floating around in this thread. While I can personally dislike Wally world and other stores of that ilk, my opinion doesn't give me the right to criticize another mama for her choices. In all things I feel one must "walk a mile" before jumping to conclusions and judging someone else's choices.

Ok that said here is how I avoid Walmart. (It does help that the closest one is 20 mins away!)

I SAH, and I do go to about 3 different places to buy what I need grocery wise, Safeway, Fred Meyer (similar to WM but not as cheap), and New Seasons. I sometimes go to Trader Joes as well. I shop for different things on different days and buy my produce weekly. (once the farmer's market is back up I will buy it all there.) I have a tight budget and this is one way to cut costs. I also watch sale adds and keep an eye out for coupon deals. I agree that being a SAHM helps give me the time to do those things.

For clothing for the kids I shop almost exclusively at the local resale shop or online. I will on occasion if I need something that I can't find at the resale shop and can't wait for it to be shipped, I go to Target. For myself it is Target or Goodwill. Sometimes I will splurge and hit the clearance racks at the department stores or go to Ross or Marshalls. I am new to the area though and am looking for adult consignment shops for DH and I.

I recognize that many may see Target as just as bad as Walmart, but having actually worked there I disagree. Again that is just my opinion.

Blessings,
N~


----------



## Book Addict Jen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mainegirl*
Well...you're the one who gave me a zip code, what did you expect? It's not like I can hop in my private jet and come out there to find places in person!

Then maybe you shouldn't judge someone situation since you don't live there...


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Diaper_Addict_Jen*
Then maybe you shouldn't judge someone situation since you don't live there...

*sigh*


----------



## Book Addict Jen

You challenged her, now I challenge you. Maybe you can help me shop this week. I need book for me, a bike, 3 yard flannel, 2 gallons of paint, soap, shampoo, bandaids, butter, milk, motor oil, flip-flops, panty hose, shorts for kids, light bulbs, food processor, cannimg jars, pectin & dish towels. My zip is 93728. Please make sure it is in only 1-2 places, close together.


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## sohj

I didn't think that mainegirl was "judging".

I thought that the zip code search was a great idea. And going over the choices that popped up and explaining what can actually be gotten at each of those places is great, too.

The problem some people don't see is the idea of "nothing" and "nowhere". I, personally, make sure I use those words precisely.

Yeah, sometimes selection is limited. So, then, I adjust. But, I don't use the word "nothing".

I've been places where there is "nothing". Places where you can _just_ get food...if you are lucky. And it probably won't be what you are used to. Times like that make you realize you probably don't need a lot of the stuff that we all take for granted as "necessities".


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Diaper_Addict_Jen*
You challenged her, now I challenge you. Maybe you can help me shop this week. I need book for me, a bike, 3 yard flannel, 2 gallons of paint, soap, shampoo, bandaids, butter, milk, motor oil, flip-flops, panty hose, shorts for kids, light bulbs, food processor, cannimg jars, pectin & dish towels. My zip is 93728. Please make sure it is in only 1-2 places, close together.

I'm not even going to honor this seriously because now you're just being rude.


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## MontanaMommy

I live in the biggest city in Montana (Billings), home to two Super Wal*Mart stores. Out of pure curiosity, I plugged my zip code into the Yahoo! Yellow Pages search engine for local grocers and got 48 results. None of which were Wal*Mart.

A couple were gas stations, but I also happen to know that in the event that I need, say, butter or panty hose I can get it there if I have to.

It's nice to see that my locally owned and operated grocers are still alive and kicking despite having several run out of town by the Wal*Mart Machine.

I'm just saying.


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## the_lissa

Whoa. That was unnecessarily rude to mainegirl. She was just helping out someone who *asked* for WalMart alternatives in her area. She also didn't realize Circle K was a gas station. Why all the animosity? At least she is trying to be helpful instead of just sitting there complaining.


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## Book Addict Jen

I feel she was being rude. Someone didn't ASK for alternaitves, she mearly replied to the challenge. Off to wal-mart to grab what I need.


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## grisandole

Actually, I didn't ask for suggestions, I was rising to her challenge







And, I still hold firm that other than Kmart and Safeway, which I did mention in my post, there are things that I can ONLY get at Walmart. In fact, even with Kmart and Safeway, there are still things that I can ONLY get at Walmart.

Now, I do have a credit card, so I can order online, but that isn't always an option due to time constraints; and while that works for me, not everyone has a credit card and internet, and extra money for shipping.

That being said, here are some real life examples of recent things that I needed to buy at Walmart:
Carseat and stroller. Can't/won't buy used carseat, Kmart had two instock (and offer a dismal selection when they are stocked) that weren't what I needed (they had an infant seat and a booster seat, I needed a convertible). Bought at Walmart. Stroller- none of the thrift stores had any (did I mention the thrift stores here are pathetic?), so being I was at WalMart for the carseat, got it there.

Gluten free cereal- we are gf, and though Safeway makes a generic gluten free cereal, neither of ours carries it, so I go to walmart to get it (malt-o-meal brand).

Genisoy bars- Nature's realm doesn't carry them, Safeway doesn't carry the specific gluten free flavors, walmart does.

Glasses- WalMart is the only place within 60miles that accepts Ds1's insurance for his glasses.

Now, I don't claim that I *must* always shop at WalMart, and I certainly don't *only* shop there; however, for *some* items, I must get them at WalMart. One of the downsides to where I live. While it is possible, in theory, to completely avoid it for grocery shopping, it is the only place to get certian things (other than online).

I don't feel guilty about it. I try to patronize mom and pop stores, but as you see from the list that showed shopping in my zip code, we don't have any mom/pop grocers (Eddies country store is owned by a corp, and is really just an overpriced tourist trap for the Phoenix crowd, so that they can "feel" like they are shopping in a mom/pop store, lol!). Oh, and Blue Ridge Furniture just went out of business, though I did buy my dining room table there a few months ago.


----------



## grisandole

Oh, and play sand. Home Depot (another big box) stopped carrying it, the locally owned Ace Hardware was out of it and had no clue if or when they would get some more, so we got that at WalMart.

Where I live, most people that can afford it drive 3.5 hours to Phoenix once a month to shop "real" stores. Seriously. The rest of us are left with our meager options here.


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grisandole*
So, find me a better place to shop



















Quote:


Originally Posted by *Diaper_Addict_Jen*
Someone didn't ASK for alternaitves, she mearly replied to the challenge.









:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grisandole*
Actually, I didn't ask for suggestions, I was rising to her challenge



















*okey dokey!!!*













































Quote:


Originally Posted by *Diaper_Addict_Jen*
Off to wal-mart to grab what I need.

Perhaps it's time to re-evaluate what you truly _need_?


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## the_lissa

I still think she was trying to be helpful because a lot of people say they shop at WalMart because they have no choice and want alternatives. Where was she rude?


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa*
I still think she was trying to be helpful because a lot of people say they shop at WalMart because they have no choice and want alternatives. Where was she rude?

I am rude, mean, nasty person. I mean, imagine! Getting upset about a store that pays foreign workers a whopping 0.17 an hour!

I need a good talking to.


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## Got_Cloth

I am at walmart almost daily. they just opened a SWM about 1 mile from my home. Hubby and I arent broke, but why spend alot more money elsewhere when I can take my kids bowling(not cheap) once a month, and hubby adn I can have a date to remember how important a marriage is and to be alone without kids??
They have about everyhting i need, a box of cereal, or tp or towels.
I am not embarrased to say I shop there, and with my kids and my pets, (5 frogs, 2 turtles, 140 lb dog, and 2 cats, and 2 hermit crabs? it is just better. and i have walked around walmart SEVERAL time with my baby nursing and NEVER had an issue. thats just me i guess. LOL

I am new here and I just dont understand all the walmart negativity.....

they helo some families reach goals of a nice vacation, or to put some money for a rainy day...


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NothingButtCloth*
I am new here and I just dont understand all the walmart negativity.....

they helo some families reach goals of a nice vacation, or to put some money for a rainy day...

As long as they're not the employees!


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## onlyzombiecat

If anyone wants to help me find affordable Walmart alternatives in my area I'd be grateful. (Not being rude- a sincere request) We already shop other places for groceries and spend more than we did when we lived in a city with more than one grocery store.
Our zip code is 66434.
Something around 15- 20 miles would be best.


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## SoHappy

Some (not all, so don't flame me) people will just never get it.
It's all about them and their stuff. They deserve, need, etc. more stuff and cheaper.
Sadly, we live in a convenience and bargain-oriented society where the acquisition of more cheap crap has priority over sustainability, environment, and good health for us and our global neighbors. So let's all tie on the Nikes, hop in the SUV, and head over to WalMart for a little shopping. We'll get tired, but we can stop at McDonald's on the way home and grab a little something at the drive-through.


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlyzombiecat*
If anyone wants to help me find affordanle Walmart alternatives in my area I'd be grateful. (Not being rude- a sincere request)
Our zip code is 66434.

I would be happy to try--and I will PM you!

I don't want to start the whole Circle K debacle again!

:LOL :LOL :LOL


----------



## TiredX2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NothingButtCloth*
I am new here and I just dont understand all the walmart negativity.....

Have you even read this whole thread? Including links & cited statistics?

How about this thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=285630

Or this one:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=WalMart

Or any of thses:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=WalMart

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=WalMart

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=WalMart

If you want tto do a search (there is a little search button up by "Members List" and "New Posts") you'll come across a lot more info.

I think it is pretty clear why many of us are against Wal-Mart. And while you might not agree with our reasoning, I would hope you could acknowledge our *reasons*.


----------



## grisandole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mainegirl*

















:










*okey dokey!!!*













































Perhaps it's time to re-evaluate what you truly _need_?

Are you serious? I don't NEED a freaking CARSEAT????







I should put the 17month old placement we got on a moments notice (we do foster care) in a seat belt? WTH? And I shouldn't ever give my kids cereal? Tell, me, oh great one, if the Kmart was out of seats, where was I supposed to get a seat other than Walmart? Should I drive 3.5 hours each way to Target or another big box store in Phoenix? Should I have ordered online and payed 30.00 shipping and waited at least a week to get it (which I couldn't do as I needed to take this little one to various apts)?

Yes, I consider carseats and food neccessities. I'm so materialistic that way


----------



## mainegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grisandole*
Are you serious? I don't NEED a freaking CARSEAT????







I should put the 17month old placement we got on a moments notice (we do foster care) in a seat belt? WTH? And I shouldn't ever give my kids cereal? Tell, me, oh great one, if the Kmart was out of seats, where was I supposed to get a seat other than Walmart? Should I drive 3.5 hours each way to Target or another big box store in Phoenix? Should I have ordered online and payed 30.00 shipping and waited at least a week to get it (which I couldn't do as I needed to take this little one to various apts)?

Yes, I consider carseats and food neccessities. I'm so materialistic that way









I'm sorry, I just cannot have a conversation with you when you insist on picking things out to quote them completely out of context, and then putting words in my mouth. It's really frustrating and rude.


----------



## SoHappy

Jeez-Louise, Gris, she didn't even say that to you, she said it in response to Diaper_Addict_Jen. Feeling a little defensive, eh?

Maybe you could pick up one of those Relaxing Gentle Breezes sniffy scented plug-in thingies at WalMart and chill a little.


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## grisandole

Oops, my apologies, I mis-read the quotes, I thought the last comment about evaluating what I need was in respone to my post; I now see it was specifically directed at Jen.....

I was wondering why someone wouldn't consider a carseat a necessity!


----------



## grisandole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SoHappy*
Jeez-Louise, Gris, she didn't even say that to you, she said it in response to Diaper_Addict_Jen. Feeling a little defensive, eh?

Maybe you could pick up one of those Relaxing Gentle Breezes sniffy scented plug-in thingies at WalMart and chill a little.

Not defensive, just outraged that someone would consider a carseat a non-necessity. However, I do see now that the comment wasn't directed at me. Hard to focus with five boys going crazy over here!

I don't feel the need to defend my choice to shop at WalMart. I do like to post to these threads to explain that not everyone has multiple options for shopping, particularly multiple AFFORDABLE options. I've lived in places where there was no reason to ever step foot in a WalMart, and when I lived there, I didn't. I'm not fond of big box stores in general, and try to avoid all of them! However, the reality is that in some areas, there isn't much in the way of choice, and IMO it is necessary to shop Walmart.

I have no regrets, guilt, or apologies. I just like to present all the facts


----------



## mamajama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grisandole*
I do like to post to these threads to explain that not everyone has multiple options for shopping, particularly multiple AFFORDABLE options. I've lived in places where there was no reason to ever step foot in a WalMart, and when I lived there, I didn't. I'm not fond of big box stores in general, and try to avoid all of them! However, the reality is that in some areas, there isn't much in the way of choice, and IMO it is necessary to shop Walmart.

I have no regrets, guilt, or apologies. I just like to present all the facts









I just have to say that I used to feel the same way as you about this. I am a single mom working minimum wage raising two small boys. You may be surprised to find that if you stop shopping at Walmart you will actually save money _and_ improve your quality of life at the same time. Since I stopped shopping there (and I live in a touristy port-town $$$) I buy less stuff and the things I do buy are better quality, more meaningful, and chosen with more care. I no longer think it's necessary to shop at Walmart.
Edited to add irony: I actually bought my kids cloth diapers at Walmart.


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## Mothra

I've re-evaluated my stance on this issue a bit.

I haven't been to Wal-Mart in months. The last time I went I took my father, who is disabled and can't go on his own, because he wanted something very specific that we couldn't find anywhere else. Wal-Mart is very inconveinent where we live now so that makes it a less attractive option. Actually, I did go to Wal-Mart about a month ago, but they didn't have what I needed and I vowed never to return.

I agree with what mamajama said about how you will find that you buy less and consider your purchases more carefully when you swear off the big box stores. We do have a military exchange available to us, but we rarely shop there anymore, either. We occasionally make more expensive purchases there to avoid sales tax, but most of what we really need we can get at the grocery store or other local shops.

That said, it is a priviledge to have other options. I have a car. I have a partner to care for my kids while I chase what I need all over town. I have more money than I did a few years ago to pay for the fair trade products that cost more. I have parents and in-laws that buy most of my children's clothes and toys. I live in a fairly big city with lots of higher quality second-hand shops and local merchants (Hawaii isn't quite as inundated with the box shops at other locales).

I have lived in Arizona and options in Show Low are pretty limited, from what I remember. I've only been there once. All I'm saying is that I do think that most people have options they don't realize and that I understand why those options aren't as attractive to some as they are to others.


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## DebraBaker

I don't understand this, either, but I live in a nice area and have many shopping choices.

I don't want to judge any individual mother here, I think thats important not only because I want to be respectful I also want mothers whose opinions differ with mine to be able to freely express their opinions so I can understand their perspective.

That being said I also think when people are more conscious of their choices they usually buy *less* and consume *less* which is, overall, better for the enviornment but also better for the family because the more mindful people are the better.

Debra Baker


----------



## sohj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SoHappy*
Some (not all, so don't flame me) people will just never get it.
It's all about them and their stuff. They deserve, need, etc. more stuff and cheaper...











Let's look at some of these "needs" a different way.

Earlier someone posted getting gluten-free cereal. (Definately being gluten-free is a NECESSITY if one has a wheat allergy.)

Guess what gluen-free cereal I have nearly every morning? OATMEAL. It is really, really cheap. I get organic, steel cut oats for 37 cents a pound at my co-op and I bring my own container to put it in. No waste. If I lived in the middle of nowhere, I'd have room for a serious pantry and I'd buy a 100 lb grain sack of oatmeal at one go.

You say you don't like oatmeal? Well, how many ways have you tried to make it? I find the steel-cut oats to be less "gluey" than the rolled oats, for instance.

Like fruit? Add raisins, or cut up dried or fresh
pineapple,
apple,
mango,
pear,
cranberries,
blueberries,
gooseberries,
etc., etc.










Just an idea. Another point of view.


----------



## grisandole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sohj*









Let's look at some of these "needs" a different way.

Earlier someone posted getting gluten-free cereal. (Definately being gluten-free is a NECESSITY if one has a wheat allergy.)

Guess what gluen-free cereal I have nearly every morning? OATMEAL. It is really, really cheap. I get organic, steel cut oats for 37 cents a pound at my co-op and I bring my own container to put it in. No waste. If I lived in the middle of nowhere, I'd have room for a serious pantry and I'd buy a 100 lb grain sack of oatmeal at one go.

You say you don't like oatmeal? Well, how many ways have you tried to make it? I find the steel-cut oats to be less "gluey" than the rolled oats, for instance.

Like fruit? Add raisins, or cut up dried or fresh
pineapple,
apple,
mango,
pear,
cranberries,
blueberries,
gooseberries,
etc., etc.










Just an idea. Another point of view.

Oatmeal isn't considered gluten free, it's one of the danger grains due to cross contamination. Trust me, I know all the gluten free foods and tricks


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## MontanaMommy

My husband used to work for Toys R Us and was telling me about how dangerous (some, not all) play sand can be. Some sand companies add chemicals and junk like asbestiform tremolite to sand to aid in the "sticking" action when making sand castles. He was also telling me that while the big boxes that the bags come in will often carry the warning, the bags themselves do not always state this fact.

Found this link: http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/...sp?Main_ID=949

I'm not trying to start a fight with anyone, I just shocked when he first told me about it some time ago and remembered it when I read about the play sand comment.


----------



## grisandole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MontanaMommy*
My husband used to work for Toys R Us and was telling me about how dangerous (some, not all) play sand can be. Some sand companies add chemicals and junk like asbestiform tremolite to sand to aid in the "sticking" action when making sand castles. He was also telling me that while the big boxes that the bags come in will often carry the warning, the bags themselves do not always state this fact.

Found this link: http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/...sp?Main_ID=949

I'm not trying to start a fight with anyone, I just shocked when he first told me about it some time ago and remembered it when I read about the play sand comment.

Wow, thanks for the info! What we buy *appears* to be the beach sand (I hope!), but I will defnintely check it out. Thanks again


----------



## MontanaMommy

Quote:

Wow, thanks for the info! What we buy *appears* to be the beach sand (I hope!), but I will defnintely check it out. Thanks again
No problem! I'm happy to be able to pass the information on!


----------



## mamamillie

Okay, first I have to admit that I haven't read every post in this long thread. But I have read pages and pages.

You don't have to shop at Wal-Mart.

Look, we are below the poverty line financially. In my town, there is Wal-Mart and one other locally owned grocery store that does not carry organics at all. I am working on them and the manager called me yesterday w a question about my list, so I think he is working on helping me out. There is no csa or farmer's market around here at all. So, I load 2 coolers in my dh's car and carpool w him into the city (45 mins away) to the natural grocery twice a month. I buy my eggs from a nice old lady down the road. Her chickens are most likely not eating organic but they are allowed to freely roam and I don't have to buy packaging. I grow what vegs I can, although I have to do it in containers because the river floods. I try to make my city trips on Saturdays so I can visit the farmers market.

As far as the other arguments I am seeing made as to why folks have to shop at Wal-Mart- okay, first of all you do not need paper towels. Please do not use paper towels. Talk about wastefullness. You really do not even need tp. I balked at the idea of cloth tp for a long time but recycled tp is expensive and hard to find. So I keep a roll on the dispenser for guests and yes, I use cloth tp. I do not use "beauty products" or else I make them myself. I do not buy deoderant, shampoo, razors, cleaning products, paper products, otc medications, air fresheners, lotion, laundry detergent, or anything else I can do without or make myself from simple, natural ingredients.

And wrt the groceries...if I wasn't concerned at all about the social and environmental and ethical reasons for avoiding Wal-Mart, I would still not shop there for nutritional reasons. Their aisles are crammed w genetically modified, processed junk. They carry Horizon "organic" milk which is not really organic, as the cows are kept penned and not allowed to graze in the grass (much), and they have very limited choices for other organics. I don't think they carry any frozen or canned organics, only a few fresh items like carrots and apples. Someone mentioned cereal being a necessity...I doubt they carry a single box I would feed myself or my family. They do not carry staples such as whole grains and flax. They do not carry foods I will feed my family.

And for the record, I don't have a huge problem w the wages they are paying their workers here. It is the .23 CENTS an hour they pay their workers in China (kids, too, I am sure) who work like 70+ hours a week in their gulags over there.


----------



## Peppamint

I don't like walmart and only go when I "need" to. I already went into the "why's" on the previous post. Anyway...

I got into an altercation with an old fart who cussed me out yesterday. The old guy couldn't park and had his bumper pressed right into my minivan... if it wasn't for the dealer license plate I've been intending to remove he'd have smashed my bumper. I left a note on his windshield suggesting he be more careful parking and he just happened to walk out then.







Threw the note in my window and cussed me out... I drove away (and hopefully ran over his foot :LOL). So it was stupid of me, people are weird and crazy and I'm probably lucky he didn't have a gun. And I certainly didn't drive straight home (he was behind me on the main street for awhile).

I took my MIL there to look for curtains for my room last week (after trying Kmart, Target, eBay, Froogle and a small mail order/online business who only had my sizes in imported curtains for triple the price of walmart curtains) and someone parked literally six inches away from my passenger door in their 2-door Cougar. I'd like to know how they got out of their car. My MIL almost threw her back out trying to get in cause she didn't want to wait for me to back out.

One more reason to avoid walmart I guess... people who can't park their Cadillacs, sport cars and Suburbans.


----------



## fourgrtkidos

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyB*
It is interesting to see the vairous perspectives in this thread.

My family of three lives on about $25K/year (after taxes) so we aren't exactly poor but we aren't rich either. However, I find that we are much too poor to shop at places like Wal-Mart.

The reason is that the stuff is such poor quality. I wear my work clothes and shoes for years. I can't afford cheap stuff that falls apart in the wash or shoes that wear out in less than a year. I can't afford to keep replacing kitchenware that breaks or furniture that sags and delaminates when you use it. I can't afford to pay a big corporation to process my food for me when it's so much cheaper to buy staples like rice and lentils and supplement them with in-season fruits and veggies.

I guess this will sound elitist to some, but when I shop at yard sales, thrift stores or overstock stores at least there is a possibility that I'll find a real treasure for cheap. At Wal-Mart they promise to stock the cheapest product and that means those hidden treasures don't even exist in the store. I hate the feeling that just because I don't have much money the cheap junk they sell is all that I deserve.

BTW, I'm not saying that expensive = good quality. Even nicer stores stock marked up cheap stuff in order to make a profit. What I'm saying is that buying cheap without considering quality essentially means buying disposable products and that is almost always more expensive in the long run.

--AmyB


EXACTLY!!!!!!


----------



## fourgrtkidos

AND BYTHE WAY>>>>>>>I am the OP and I have ordered this thread to die several times. I can kill EVERY OTHER thread just by showing up. But not my OWN??? HELLO!!!!!!

Seriously. Walmart is evil.


----------



## dixie1972

consumerism happens-not just at walmart or other box stores-just look at Organic Style magazine LOL
it would be best if we could all buy local (when we actually truly *needed* to buy something) and support our local economies and not use cars at all and have towns that were true centers of society and talk to our neighbors again, survive without TV, etc. etc(i am dreaming i know).-obviously this thread demonstrates that in some areas walmart has already taken over, if someone has no other choice i don't fault them in any way-i have experienced it first hand!
oh and i grew up in FL with no a/c- and many in my family did the same-although now my mom has it. i don't remember being particularly bothered by the heat, we spent lots of time in the water-i am not sure how we survived LOL


----------



## felicite

I see posts about this often and I wonder why, too. There are other places to get the items WalMart carries. Additionally, many things people claim to "need" aren't necessities.

DH and I aren't wealthy by any stretch of the imagination but it makes me sick to go into walmart and see "Made in China" on everything. You think Walmart would want to put some of that income into the U.S. population in order to see it returned.

MY BIL works for Wal-Mart and is treated awfully but still stays on because there are no jobs where he lives. Of course, he sees nothing wrong with the economics of walmart, he just doesn't like his job or his pay.







:


----------



## Treasuremapper

OP, why do you want this thread to die?


----------



## Peppamint

Quote:


Originally Posted by *félicité*
DH and I aren't wealthy by any stretch of the imagination but it makes me sick to go into walmart and see "Made in China" on everything. You think Walmart would want to put some of that income into the U.S. population in order to see it returned.

80% of walmart stuff is Made in China. That leaves 20% to be split amongst all the other nations and maybe the handful of items Made in USA.

BTW- another thing that irks me. I am seeing *tons* of imported cars around... what is up with that? Is it cool to have an imported car?







I've been hearing a lot of commercials for incentives for foreign car brands... I hope GM and Ford get on the ball and start bringing in more sales or a large population in my town (including my dad) will be out of a job.









I definitely prefer American... but in the case of my curtains even the expensive ones from a family owned mail order business were imported. It was the difference between affordable and not affordable.

Michelle- who does not pay for cable, satellite TV, internet, monthly cell phone bills etc. On a budget with one income, one car payment, one mortgage, utilities and one credit card. I *know* what necessities are and we do without things a lot of people consider imperative to survive.







And yes, sometimes I go to walmart. Sometimes I get organic clothes through coops. Depends on our income and how hard Uncle Sam is squeezing us. And he is squeezing us hard as hell right now.


----------



## onlyzombiecat

I'm a SAHM who is shopping at Walmart sometimes but still looking for other affordable options. I forgot to say why I shop at Walmart in my earlier post and why I don't like to shop there.

Right now we shop there because we don't know anywhere else to go in the area & price. There don't appear to be many other options nearby. We don't buy stuff we don't need very often. We went to Pamida in another town yesterday but I'm not very fond of that store either. Not super quality stuff either IMO.
When we lived in a city we rarely set foot in Walmart if we could help it because they were crowded and I hate their store layouts. They sell guns which I object to also. What I really hate the most about Walmart will probably sound strange... it is the other customers. It seems like every time we go to a Walmart the vast majority of fellow customers have angry and rude attitudes. Not a nice shopping atmosphere. Maybe because none of them really want to be there? Plastic fumes? I dunno.

I don't have complaints about the quality of goods we purchased there. Clothes haven't fallen apart more than clothes from other stores. I've never had an employee be rude to me there either. When we lived in the city we didn't exactly go to non-chain stores- we went to Target, the mall, the huge chain bookstore, the cheapest grocery store. We did shop at thrift stores for dd's clothes- they never had anything decent in my size though.


----------



## TiredX2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *busybusymomma*
BTW- another thing that irks me. I am seeing *tons* of imported cars around... what is up with that? Is it cool to have an imported car?







I've been hearing a lot of commercials for incentives for foreign car brands... I hope GM and Ford get on the ball and start bringing in more sales or a large population in my town (including my dad) will be out of a job.









While shopping for a mini-van the Dodge dealer was emphatic that it wasn't *really* an American car, so we didn't have to worry about reliability







From what I have heard, at this point Toyota (we do not own one) is about the most "American Made" car readily available.


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## Peppamint

Yeah, a few GM vehicles have Mexican-made engines etc (which ticks my dad off as he works for GM).







I bought a Pontiac that was US made.


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## the_lissa

I live within a half hour of a GM plant and a Ford plant that make cars for the U.S. too. Just because it is an American name does not mean it is American made.


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## orangebird

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajama*
I just have to say that I used to feel the same way as you about this. I am a single mom working minimum wage raising two small boys. You may be surprised to find that if you stop shopping at Walmart you will actually save money _and_ improve your quality of life at the same time. Since I stopped shopping there (and I live in a touristy port-town $$$) I buy less stuff and the things I do buy are better quality, more meaningful, and chosen with more care. I no longer think it's necessary to shop at Walmart.
Edited to add irony: I actually bought my kids cloth diapers at Walmart.

While I was a single mom and going through nursing school making $7 an hour living in a tiny one car garage turned into a studio apartment with my son I can honestly say I never had to once step foot into a WalMart. We got by on nearly nothing. I totally agree that WalMart costs you more in the long run because most of the stuff it crap! I think there is a time and a place and if someone honestly needs to shop there, fine. But if someone can avoid it and they don't so they can save a few bucks, well, that makes me really sad. I would do almost anything in my power to avoid the place. But I think some people are really forced into it, part of what makes WalMart so evil! They open up in a rural area and they are the only game in town, a single parent without much time or money to drive hours round trip to go to another town or time to wait for stuff by mail has practically no choice. WalMart loves to take advantage of these people.

Quote:

I am new here and I just dont understand all the walmart negativity.....

they helo some families reach goals of a nice vacation, or to put some money for a rainy day...
This is really sad. You've totally bought in to their whole campaign.


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## Benji'sMom

I usually buy all my grocieries at Walmart, because it seems so cheap. (I don't buy clothes there or anything else, because it's cheap crap, but the grocieries are good...) So I was thinking of this thread and did a little experimentation. I usually buy a weeks worth of food at a time, from preprinted shopping lists that I made myself, so I know how much everything will cost me, right? So, recently instead of going to walmart for grocieries, I went to other stores in town, just to see if Walmart really was cheaper. Let's just say I spent so much $ on food I think we will be eating leaves and grass by the end of the month!







Not just a little bit more money, I mean at least $40 a week more than usual! I really _can't_ afford that. I can maybe do $40 extra a _month_ if it would keep me out of walmart, but I don't _have_ $40 extra a _week_! And these meals aren't fancy, lots of beans and rice and all that cheap stuff. And yes, most of it was "on sale," though _still_ more expensive than walmart. I was really disappointed - I was hoping to be pleasantly suprised.







I have to say, when the total cost passed $100 and the clerks kept ringing up more food, I was in shock.







That has NEVER happened to me at walmart. Oh well...


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## Peppamint

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa*
I live within a half hour of a GM plant and a Ford plant that make cars for the U.S. too. Just because it is an American name does not mean it is American made.

no, but more than a freakin' Hyndai (uh, how do you spell that), Mitsibishi etc.







And like I said, I buy Union made, American made vehicles from American companies.


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## fluffernutter

Quote:


Originally Posted by *félicité*

DH and I aren't wealthy by any stretch of the imagination but it makes me sick to go into walmart and see "Made in China" on everything. You think Walmart would want to put some of that income into the U.S. population in order to see it returned.

I actually saw a car in the Wal-Mart parking lot with a "Buy American" bumper sticker.







I didn't know whether to laugh, cry or cuss.


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## Doodlebugsmom

I think the difference between cars and other items is that the cars aren't made in sweatshops. Car-factory workers in other countries earn a true living wage. I have no problem buying a car from a country other than the US if I'm confident that the person who put it together is able to support their family. I hate what car manufacturers have done here in the US. They've picked up and moved to other countries so they can pay people pennies to work, and they've left lots of Americans without jobs. I'd rather support a decent company in another country than one who contributes to poverty in both the US and the countries it's moved to. Sorry to go so off topic!


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## the_lissa

Good point. INot to mention there are goreign car factories in u.s. and canada too, so you could still be supporting your fellow resident.


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## Peppamint

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fluffernutter*
I actually saw a car in the Wal-Mart parking lot with a "Buy American" bumper sticker.







I didn't know whether to laugh, cry or cuss.

Yup, I see it too.

And I when I go to buy a new flag for our flagpole. I check Target... American flag is made in Taiwan







... I check the local hardware store and it's made in China







. Amazingly Walmart had one made in USA. We'll see what luck I have now that it's time to replace our flag again.









I still prefer to buy an American made car from an American owned company... but then again I have three close family members who depend on jobs from GM and Ford, not to mention the local economy and several local factories depend on the GM and Ford plants in town staying open.


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## kittywitty

We go to walmart because it is literally the only thing around us. We live in the middle of NOWHERE. It is over 2 hours to the nearest anything besides walmart. I order stuff as much as possible on the internet. There is a natural food sotre that has *some* stuff. But they only carry specialty stuff and not things like all purpose flour, and sugar, and such. So we do have to go to walmart. There is a grocery store here, and we get our "natural" meat there, but everything else is (the meat, too, actually, it's just better) twice the price. So we have no choice. Believe me, I think walmart is the devil, but you gotta do what you gotta do...


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## kittywitty

Forgot to mention-I am surrounded by farms. HOWEVER-all of the farms in the area ship off their goods so there is nothing left to sell to the community. We have also had a drought this year so nothing is growing well. I used to help out with my friend's family fruit stand with all local fresh picked fruits & veggies but this year we live far away from there and the stuff here isn't growing. I would die for some fresh tomatoes off of the vine and some fresh green beans and nectarines. But too bad for me. The farmers market is bare and the only thing growing in my garden is one pumpkin and a crap load of grasshoppers and beetles this year.


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## aisraeltax

i just had to stick my nose in here and confess b/c i am one of those people who rant and rave against Walmart. I had union clients and was sworn off Walmart. but now i am not working and i am trying to learn to sew. i went to our local sewing store today (cute little building, exclusively sewing, etc.) and the prices were outrageous! my dh is already going to kill me for the $$ i spent on the CD's and im trying to make that up by making some covers, etc. but i really didnt want to spend more than $50 on a ruler, cutting board (i think thats what its called), a roller cutter (??), thread, velcro and elastic. i gave up and went to Walmart (i bought some cute fabric at the other place for $4 for 1/2 yard!!! i coudlnt believe it but one of my sons loves baseball and it was flannel, so i thought what the heck but i cant spend $8 a yard!!). at Walmart i got buy with purchasing everything for about $32...it would have been way more than $50 at the other place!!!! the people who worked at walmart werent helpful and the inventory was drab, but i wanted to get started. i will just do everything on line from now on but i really really wanted this.
Walmart treats their employees horribly..they treat US companies horribly! they actually demand companies open oversees plants (i dont know if anyone has seen the MSNBC documentary on Walmart, but its very interesting).
i have been in Walmart 2x in the last 4 or 5 years, but THIS IS WHY SAHMs shop at Walmart!!!! until Walmart is put in line (and they wont be anytime soon), they will continue to underprice the competition...by alot! with 2 incomes, its easier to stay out...with one...in this economy, and esp. with children, its more difficult.
what people have to do is show the SAHMs and others what is going on with Walmart. the child labor issues, the employee discrimination, etc. until they see an impact in their own neighborhood, they will continue shopping there. and like someone else said sometimes its not a choice. right now i dont think it would be a good thing to spenf $40 a week more on groceries for us but im not even going to tell dh that. he stops at Walmart on his way home sometimes but he doesnt shop enough (food) to notice there is a substantial difference.
we have to give each other a break and work on awareness. Walmart has thrived in certain areas b/c they target areas where people don't have much money, good jobs, etc. thats where they get alot of their customers and employees.
i feel badly for the employees of Walmart. most are part time b/c Walmart refused to provide decent health benefits; and in rural America alot of employees were working for the competition with benefits that Walmart closed down.
its a sad state!
sorry to make this so long..but thought some would find this interesting....

Connecticut just fined Wal-Mart for child labor law violations. And in January, Wal-Mart agreed to pay $134,540 after being cited for child labor violations in Connecticut, Arkansas and New Hampshire.

Really-that's not the kind of place we want to shop for our children's back-to-school supplies, is it?

This is a great opportunity to send a strong message to Wal-Mart and start the children in your life on the way to activism. Help them write letters by Aug. 1 to Wal-Mart CEO Lee Scott telling him why their families won't buy school supplies from Wal-Mart this year. Here are some unpleasant facts about Wal-Mart they can use as they write their letters:

* Wal-Mart has racked up huge fines for child labor law violations. The rich company reportedly makes children younger than 18 work through their meal breaks, work very late and even work during school hours. Several states have found Wal-Mart workers younger than 18 operating dangerous equipment, such as chain saws, and working in dangerous areas like trash compactors. (The New York Times, 1/13/04; The Associated Press, 2/18/05; The Hartford Courant, 6/18/05)

* Wal-Mart pays poverty-level wages and fails to provide affordable health insurance to more than 600,000 employees. That means Wal-Mart workers and their families have a hard time paying the bills and getting the health care they need. (Wal-Mart annual reports; BusinessWeek, 10/2/03)

* Wal-Mart has a shameful record of paying women less than men-discriminating against moms. Wal-Mart paid full-time male employees $5,000 more than women on average in 2001. Some 1.6 million women are eligible to join a class-action lawsuit charging Wal-Mart with discrimination. (Richard Drogin, Ph.D., 2/03; Los Angeles Times, 12/30/04)

* Wal-Mart sells products made by young people in other countries who work in horrible conditions over long hours for little money doing dangerous jobs. In Africa, workers who make clothing for Wal-Mart are forced to put in too many hours, are yelled at by their bosses, are not paid enough to take care of their families and can't even take breaks to use the bathroom. Wal-Mart refused to investigate stories that shoes and jeans from Asia were being made by workers in forced labor camps. (Cleveland Plain Dealer, 11/14/04; China Labor Watch, the National Labor Committee and Clean Clothes Campaign reports)

* Wal-Mart can afford to do better. Wal-Mart-America's largest private employer-raked in $10 billion in profits last year. CEO Lee Scott landed nearly $23 million in total compensation last year alone. Wal-Mart has no excuse for its behavior.

Help your children write letters telling Scott his company is hurting families, communities and children here and around the world-and that's why your family won't be shopping for back-to-school supplies at Wal-Mart this year. Please send the letters to:

Lee Scott
C/O Wal-Mart Campaign
AFL-CIO
815 16th St., N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20006

We'll see that Scott gets the message-loud and clear.

Thank you for working to stop the Wal-Marting of America's jobs and for getting the children involved.

To learn more about how Wal-Mart affects your community, go to:

http://www.walmartcostsyou.com

Thanks for all that you do for working families.

In solidarity,

Working Families e-Activist Network, AFL-CIO
July 12, 2005

P.S. Help us get thousands of letters from children to Wal-Mart CEO Lee Scott. Please forward this e-mail to parents you know who also want to stop the Wal-Marting of America's jobs. Thanks!


----------



## ksmommy

Well, I do live in an area with more options and at least 3-4 local groceries chains... HOWEVER, I can not afford the prices on food at those stores. Our groceries come from Aldi's and WM. Produces from local groceries just because they are better. I hate clothes from WM, so I shop at yard sales and Children's Orchard for the kids.
As much as I dislike their policy, I feel like I have to give up on what I feel that is right for the sake of my family.







C'est la vie!!!


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## Chiromom

I'm a thread killer. Evil Cackle! :LOL


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## eightyferrettoes

DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Curl up and dieeeeeeeeeeeeee

myabe i shuold sep;ell words wrong,and put commas colser cuz that always killsa thread.


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## gracklegirl

I can try to write something insightful and then have it come awkward and dorky, that usually kills a thread....


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## aisraeltax

i didnt mean to kill the thread...just had some opinions on the subject. sorry if it was too long and dorky.
Rach


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## eightyferrettoes

No, no, the original poster WANTS the thread to die-- she posted about it in Talk Amongst Ourselves.

You're not dorky. :LOL I'm just tryin' to help.

DIEEEEEEE THREAD DIEEEEEE!


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## Mom4tot

I know how to kill this thread....









Let's see....post a picture of someone who shall remain nameless :LOL

Talk about dolphin sex










Espouse the wonders of koolaid drinking and dyeing


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## gracklegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aisraeltax*
i didnt mean to kill the thread...just had some opinions on the subject. sorry if it was too long and dorky.
Rach

Oh, mama, no! Please don't be offended! The OP asked this thread to be killed, and I just posted what I usually post, nothing directed to you!

I really thank you for your information, since I did admire your post before I made my joke! I think education is the only true way to change behaviour, and I'll shut up now before I say something dorky again. Sorry!!!







:


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## stirringleaf

hi i just traveled here from Talk Amongst Ourselves too. no one take it personally but the origianal poster asked us to help her kill this thread.

so could people stop posting to it now? pretty please? if you would like to talk about walmart, start a new one instead of ressurrecting an old one. i havent read this one but she said there were feelings hurt and that sort of thing, so its like dredging up some not-so-good stuff. even though i havent read it i have been involved in plenty of threads like it so i can just imagine....

i think its a good thing to discuss, but it might be better to start fresh and try again.


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## Treasuremapper

Why does she want the thread to die? :LOL


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## pilesoflaundry

I'm just here to kill this thread! So as requested....

When was the last time anyone got laid? And where is that car parking thread when I need it?

There that should do it! If not someone quick mention dolphin sex!


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## Lucky

just popped in from TAO


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## eightyferrettoes

Menage a trois with a dolphin!!!! :LOL

Report this thread!


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## pilesoflaundry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eightyferrettoes*
Menage a trois with a dolphin!!!! :LOL

Report this thread!









: I wonder if we can get it shut down if we all start swearing, that has to do it right?


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## BusyMommy

Why just last night I got laid by 3, count 'em, 3 dolphins. But...shhhh







I wouldn't wanna brag.


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## fljen

why stop with dolphins? move through the whole family of cetacea and finish off with killer whales, humpbacks and the great sperm whale for a thrill


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## Maeve

Oh, I love a good hump by a humpback. mmmmm......
But don't get me started on the sperm whale....lets just say it was messy.

(there, is that gross enough to get it shut down or should I go into more detail...)


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## sohj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stirringleaf*
hi i just traveled here from Talk Amongst Ourselves too. no one take it personally but the origianal poster asked us to help her kill this thread.

Quite a few threads over the years have been removed or locked by the mods at the request of the original poster. I'd assume that if the OP has asked for this roundabout way of "killing" the thread, that means that the _logical_ removal method was unsuccessful?










_[PS: stirringleaf, I've said it before, but I'll say it again -- dig yer siggie.







]_


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## Sharlla

I shop at walmart for a few reasons. I save money and lots of it. At least $200 a month on our household items and groceries. I'm comparing this to shopping at Safeway and Albertsons.

When another store is having a sale Walmart will match their competitors price so I don't have to run all over town to save money.

If Walmart rings up something the wrong price I either get the item for free or a $3 discount.

Walmart has their own brand which often time is just as good as the name brand and better than other generics.

Walmart has a better selection of products and It's one stop shopping for a lot of my needs.

Walmart has inexpensive clothes. My tank tops are cute and only cost $4.48. We have thrift stores here but they don't really charge much less and it's hard to find exactly what I want in my size. A few weeks ago I went to 4 different thrift stores and could only find 2 tank tops that I liked.

Walmart has my bank inside so I can do my banking without going to another store.

I get my photos developed while I shop, same for getting my oil changed.

I do buy a lot of my items used but when I can't I choose to go to walmart.


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## Treasuremapper

OK, I just have to point out again, that if you use coupons in a smart way, you can shop at Albertsons, Safeway, Randalls, etc., the big name, overpriced grocery stores that use unions and have benefits -- for a fraction of the cost of Walmart for most items. There is no reason to pay full price for basic items like toothbrushes and deoderant. It's like paying full price for a car, and those dollars add up very fast. Organic produce and even organic meat can be purchased for less with coupons. It is worth investigating before going to WM if you have an ethical concern with WM.


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## Sharlla

But I use those same coupons at walmart (who charges less fot that item) for an even bigger discount, I wouln't be paying full price. Just curious, where do you get coupons for organic produce and meat?


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## sohj

Apropros of this thread, I had an idea. And I posted it: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=315652

A little acorn...


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## momo7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Avonlea*
I don't shop at Hell-mart because I LIKE it. I shop at that black hole because I cannot afford to go other places.

Here is an expmle. I need dishwasher soap. I can pay $1.97 at wal-mart for a box of this that will last me almost a month. OR I can pay $3.89 at Safeway Or $2.99 at Freed Meyers OR $3.50 at Thriftway OR $3.99 at Albertsons Or$3.78 at Roths. Now, at these other places and pices I have mentioned..it is the size of box that will only last me two weeks. So then I will have to buy the next larger box..so just add another dollar to every price I have listed.

This price comparison applies to pretty much every product we use. For Example, Cat food at Wal-mart is $7.47 for a 40lb bag. I have four cats, and they would like to have food. If I buy 40lbs of catfood at the feed store I will have to pay about $10.00 for it. If I go to the grocery stores listed..it is always over the price from wal-mart.

Toilet paper costs me about $4.64 for enough to last me 2 months.

I buy disposable diapers as i don't have many cloth AND because my son pees very heavily in his sleep I buy over night type pants for him. Diapers at wal-mart are $5.74 for a weeks worth for Emily, and a package of 17 overnight pull ups for Paul is $9. something..cannot recall the exact change amount. I know if I bought diapers for Emily at Safeway it would be roughly 13.00 for a weeks worth. Think about that .The choice between $5.74, and $13.00 for the same amount of a product. Which one would you choose if your weekly grocery and etc. budget was about $125.00 ??

yes, I realize how awful a place wal-mart is. But right now, that is the way things are. I am glad to know you and your friends do well enough in YOUR area to avoid having to go to Wal-mart. My hat is off to you alll.

However, this is my reality. I have options of other stores and they cost a considerable mount more. I spend every week searching throiugh the sales adds,.carefully making out my list, trying to spread my money out and buy things that we relly must have, and also trying to save about 10 or 15 dollars so we can go to the pool and swim or somewhere else 'fun' for my son. I mean, just because we don't hvae a lot of money does not mean he has to miss out on stuff just so I can join the " I would NEVER shop THERE!" club.

I assume you are not trying to judge, but the way you stated the title relly has me feeling very judged and a little angry. I don't ENJOY going to wal-mart, it makes my stomach hurt being in there and I hate the entire thing..but when I have to keep with in a budget then either we go to wal-mart and have enough stuff to make it through the week or month or what ever, or we go elsewhere and run out of stuff and then we can just go stand in line with the rest of the struggling people and wait for our box of food. Or even more fun, borrow toilet paper from family. Gee, what fun that would be.

I am glad you do not have to enter wal-amrt. i wish I could avoid it, and I try to not go more than twice a month...but please understand that you have to do things at times to save money..even if they are not that great.

And if you don't like me using disposable diapers, then please feel free to send me some large cloth ones..because i have a few but not enough to go past about 3 days and i cannot afford to get any more. Pleaes don't think i enjoy the darn things any more than the next person.

I do what I must to get by and if I could do better I would.

ps. i also do shop at the local goodwill, the kiwanis , the local resale shop, and any yardsale I can get too....but if I cannot find it used, then my next option is wal-mart..sorry. failure once more i guess.


I totally agree with this post.

I hate Wal-Mart but I live in an rural area where that is just about my only choice. There are very few consignment shops and I have to say that they sell clothes that cost almost the same as something new and frankly if I'm going to spend that much, I would rather it be new. I don't buy very many clothes at Wal-Mart because I like other clothing stores better. The majority of my wal-Mart spending is done in household products like cleaning aids, dish soap, bath soap, personal higene products, t-paper or paper towels. With nine people in our family I use these things up very quickly...at my local grocery store these things cost twice or three times as much than they do at Wal-Mart.

My husband makes enough for all of us to live on and we send four children to private school...I owe it to him to save money where I can. Home schooling isn't an option for me, and government schooling is out of the question.
Running a large household also means I don't get out as much as I'd like, but I do buy things that I need when I run across garage sales.

I really believe that I do the best I can. I don't think shopping at the "wrong" place makes me a bad mother or a bad human...for me and mine it works and I have to concentrate on that.


----------



## Treasuremapper

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sharlla*
But I use those same coupons at walmart (who charges less fot that item) for an even bigger discount, I wouln't be paying full price. Just curious, where do you get coupons for organic produce and meat?

I used to think exactly like you do. Albertsons? You gotta be kidding. They have the highest prices in town, I would never waste money at a place like that.

But... it would be highly unlikely that you could get a better discount at Walmart using coupons than I do at Albertsons and Safeway using coupons. I can prove it with boxes of receipts. The reason is simple: Safeway, Randalls, Albertsons, etc., have lots of special promotions where they DOUBLE and TRIPLE the coupons. Walmart is very unfriendly towards coupons -- as a general rule.

Our local Albertsons runs deals where coupons are doubled to 1.00, meaning that an item is 2.00 off regular price, and tripled up to .75, meaning that it is 2.25 off the regular price. Very few simple grocery items cost that much more at Alby's than Walmart, but there are some. Most of the time, you can just walk around getting stuff for free or dirt cheap. Add to that the other promos, like coupons for 5.00 off 50.00 and pretty soon it is much cheaper to shop at Alby's than Wally's. It is a bit harder than Walmart, but possibly more ethical AND much much cheaper for most items that have coupons. That includes things like organic produce, meat, flowers, etc.

I have the receipts to prove it.







I regularly get things free or dirt cheap. Then, when that item is chipped off my bill, the entire bill gets smaller and smaller over time.


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## Treasuremapper

Oh, regarding organic meat and produce. You can find meat coupons for "any meat" (usually with an exclusion for ground meat) on winetags at the grocery stores (no purchase required). Same with produce. You can also find organic produce coupons through mambo sprouts and other booklets at health food stores. I have info on it if you are curious, feel free to PM me.


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## dillonandmarasmom

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../synopsis.html

Please copy and paste this article to your address bar to learn why Wal_Mart is not a place to shop...also google is Wal_mart bad for America? There is so much good literature out there explaining why Wal_Mart is slowly demolishing our ways of life. Please take what little time you have to learn about this. Yeah, the Beast saves you some change, but it also eats at the soul of its employees as well as our small towns...









I had written much more about this money-sucking, employee-hating corporate demon, but my DS found the ONE button that could wipe it all out.

Let me just say this, for small towners like me who have to drive to get to a decent store, there is a very good reason why Wal-Mart is your "only" option...it has eaten all of the others!







:

Please support the places that can really make a difference in the world. Not the ones that are trying to destroy it!

WAL_MART is NOT for ME!!!!


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## Celine

I have to agree with others who say they don't like the tone of this thread. Having lived in urban areas where there are walmarts along with trader joes, whole foods, regular grocery chains, I can understand why some people don't understand why shopping at walmart can be a necessity. Having moved to a rural "city" where we have walmart, and two other grocery stores, i can now understand why walmart becomes a necessity for those on a tight budget. The prices at the regular grocery stores here in this rural area are the same as what i paid in Manhattan. Now, keep in mind how much higher wages are for those in manhattan. It might be possible to get better deals using coupons and double coupon days on SOME items at the regular grocery store, but it is not possible to do that for an entire shopping list. I personally limit my shopping at walmart to consumable goods - clothes, shoes, whatever else, i save for our occasional hour drive to a real city. But for food, regularly staying out of walmart is simply not an option. Also, i have to say, getting a job at the walmart distribution center here is a highly coveted job - better pay and benefits than are possible at any other company here without a college education. walmart might be "evil" but what about the other stores that are taking advantage of the lack of competition and charging whatever they please in a town where people are making less than the average american?


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## eden/averymum

I boycott Walmart and am very vocal about it.

It make me crazy when people say they can't afford to ahop anywhere el;se. I say we can't afford to shop there. I say buy less stuff. I have heard people say there was nowhere else in their town to buy certain items and that is the most frightening of all. I ask them where they shopped before walmart came to their town and what happened to those stores?

argh. this is an extreme peeve of mine. I so hate walmart.


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## UUMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eden/averymum*
I boycott Walmart and am very vocal about it.

It make me crazy when people say they can't afford to ahop anywhere el;se. I say we can't afford to shop there. I say buy less stuff. I have heard people say there was nowhere else in their town to buy certain items and that is the most frightening of all. I ask them where they shopped before walmart came to their town and what happened to those stores?

argh. this is an extreme peeve of mine. I so hate walmart.









In some communites, there were never any other stores...or homes or anything but nature.

Have you been south? Whole areas of Florida, fi, which were woods only 5 years ago or fewer years ago are now communities to tens of thousands of people.

These developing areas skip the Mom & Pop shops altogther and go straight to Lowes, Target & Walmart.


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## slinginhipmama

I don't shop at walmart simply because they don't have a good selection of vegetarian or organic food. I used to shop there and would have to cart myself and two kids to 2-3 other stores looking for the things that I couldn't get at Walmart. When I thought about it, I was actually using the money saved from Walmart prices on gas (which keeps going up and up and up).

I also can't stand the clothes there ! You certainly get what you pay for I'd wash a shirt and it would be half its size when it was dry!!! I never can find good 2nd hand things so I go to The childrens place, the gap and old navy and ONLY buy from their clearance rack.I have found some really great deals that are comparable to walmart prices and last twice as long!

Anyway, just my 2 cents


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## Meiri

We've gotten to where we buy little if anything at WM except a few food items. What we save there allows us to buy other things WM doesn't carry elsewhere and thus support other businesses, or at least makes it a tad bit easier....

We don't buy much of any clothing there because it simply doesn't last. DH has noticed this with his work jeans. They wear out in half the time or less.

I think all of us could stand to be less judgmental about how others make their decisions. Until one has walked that mile in the other's mocassins....


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## counterGOPI

i LOVE that this thread exists!! I htought i was the only one to hate walmart!! ha,ha. my husband and i always didnt like them for putting other stores out of business and for their really low quality cheap items(sadly MIL loves the store and buys us everything from there no matter how vocal we are about it..ughh!!) but then we saw the news about the women sueing them for discrimination or something and how the employees would use bible quotes for explaining why women at walmart get paid less than men. that was kinda the icing on the cake for me and i havent gone since. plus its so sad to see them take over the world like mcdonalds and every other evil company like that. ughhhhhhhh...


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