# hit him back!



## Triniity (Jul 15, 2007)

hi,

i have a very dear friend, she is very nice and calm and gentle with her child. her son is nearly two and he is quite aggressive at times, biting, hitting pushing towards other children and esp towards my dd. but, they do love each other dearly.

when we get together, it takes usually five minutes of fighting and redirecting and tears at times, but then they play lovely.

now, my friend found out that her little one stopped fighting when the victim hit back . she said it worked wonderfully and it made her life so much better (she is pregnant)

she wants me to teach my little one to hit back now.







it does not feel right for me, but than she started talking about how a little girl needs to learn how to protect herself (my dd is not exactly shy or gentle







)...and she got me thinking. but it stills feels wrong for me...

i know that it will pass like everything, dd was the same six month ago and she doesn't do it at all anymore. wdyt?


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

my kids hit eachother back, and they still hit eachother lol


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## VroomieMama (Oct 9, 2008)

An old babysitter that used to babysit my daughter told me that my daughter need to fight back if she ever gets bullied at school setting or etc to protect/stand up for herself. I've always disagree with this because from my experience, the 2nd person seems to always get caught and be in trouble instead of the person who starts it.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Triniity* 
hi,

i have a very dear friend, she is very nice and calm and gentle with her child. her son is nearly two and he is quite aggressive at times, biting, hitting pushing towards other children and esp towards my dd. but, they do love each other dearly.

when we get together, it takes usually five minutes of fighting and redirecting and tears at times, but then they play lovely.

now, my friend found out that her little one stopped fighting when the victim hit back . she said it worked wonderfully and it made her life so much better (she is pregnant)

she wants me to teach my little one to hit back now.







it does not feel right for me, but than she started talking about how a little girl needs to learn how to protect herself (my dd is not exactly shy or gentle







)...and she got me thinking. but it stills feels wrong for me...

i know that it will pass like everything, dd was the same six month ago and she doesn't do it at all anymore. wdyt?

Umm nope. Hands are not for hitting. Period. And I don't care if my kid hitting your kid makes less work for you as a parent because then you get to blame my child instead of teach yours. Sorry. If I had a friend that said this I'd say no, we teach nonviolence in our home. I won't teach my child to hit your child.

OMG some people make me insane. I swear it. LOL


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## Triniity (Jul 15, 2007)

yeah, that is what i feel, too. Plus, I don´t think if I teach her to hit someone younger than she is (he is bigger though) - or anybody at her age -that that would make her be able to stand up for herself when she is like twelve. I don't think that this is the same thing.

my friend says that at their age they communicate through hitting and can't talk it over...







- and she honestly believes that there would be less violence at our schools if we would not stop the "little" fights that kids have in kindergarten and school. I am not sure about that ...

I won't tell my dd to hit back. Hitting is no form of communication. And we don't hit. And she runs to me for safety very well.


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## AmyB736 (Oct 21, 2006)

I always told my daughter and still tell my son that "you have to use your words", and "we don't hit", "hitting is not nice and you need to come tell Mommy, Daddy or another adult". But my daughter started getting picked on by a little girl. Whether they were playing at home, on the bus, or in preschool my daughter would always come home sad and say that this girl was hitting her and pushing her, among other things. And no matter how much I talked to her parents, teachers or bus driver it kept happening. I finally told my daughter that if this girl ever hit her again than she needs to hit her back. She did hit her back and yes the girl stopped hitting her. When I was in school I can remember hitting back and I rarely got picked on so I think when it comes to "school age" I will allow my kids to hit back if telling an adult doesn't work. For my son who is only 2 1/2 I will continue to enforce a "using nice touches" policy until he is old enough to understand standing up for yourself.


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

Nope - not for me either, and I have the example - ds is 3.5 he was playing yesterday with some kids and a little girl (2) started hitting ds with the big schleich cows - he still has marks, she then bit him, and that was enough for him .... but he didn't bit or hit he yelled very loud that she had to stop, and she did, sadly I wasn't in the same room, I was doing a cooking demo and the other moms were with me and not watching the kids (








) we'll have to re-think that one out, but my point is that in teaching your kids to stand up for themselves does not necessarily mean that they have to resort to violence.


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## Mom2J (Oct 16, 2006)

I agree that hitting back is NOT the answer. I would work on showing her an alternative though- for example, have her hold out a hand in a "stop" fashion, and say confidently. "No! We don't hit!" or "I don't like that!" You can definitely stand up for yourself without resorting to violence.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

You can teach your child how to fight back in better ways. Yes, I do thing kids need to learn physical self defensive but in a class setting....like karate were the main goal is to do as little as possible and get away. You are not out to hurt anyone just protect yourself.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

I'm probably in the minority here, but I agree with her. I allow my ds to "hit back" when someone is aggressive to him. Even though at home and as a rule I teach him "gentle hands," when we are out and about, like at the children's museum, for example, and another child won't leave him alone, my ds, who is naturally more aggressive, tends to hit back. I don't reprimand him. OTOH, if my ds is the aggressor and the kid he is bothering socks it to him, i won't be upset.

It is very true that sometimes, in the real world, that is the only way to get the point across to a determined bully.


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## sewcool (Jan 25, 2009)

we have a strict no hitting no hurting rule in and out of our home


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## Shera971 (Nov 26, 2008)

I'm torn in this situation. We have always told our son that you don't hit and you should use your words. And since he's only 3, this is what we want to teach him. (and for the OP that is what I would suggest as well) When he gets older though I really want him to be able to defend himself. I don't want him to feel afraid and not in control of a situation b/c some one is hitting him and his "words" are not a deterrant. Another poster mentioned karate and I'm thinking that I would like to sign my son up for that when he is older.


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## zansmama (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
I'm probably in the minority here, but I agree with her. I allow my ds to "hit back" when someone is aggressive to him. Even though at home and as a rule I teach him "gentle hands," when we are out and about, like at the children's museum, for example, and another child won't leave him alone, my ds, who is naturally more aggressive, tends to hit back. I don't reprimand him. *OTOH, if my ds is the aggressor and the kid he is bothering socks it to him, i won't be upset.
*









:
I agree: ds is allowed to hit someone back, though I wouldn't _encourage_ him to. By the same token, however, if he is hit back after being aggressive (maybe twice, ever) I have told him: "well, you have to watch out: that's what happens when you hit someone".
I have reprimanded him for going overboard, however, and explained that if someone whacks you on the arm, it's not okay to throw them in the pond, as an extreme example.
Even the law allows self-defense! How could we deny that right to our kids?


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## Ks Mama (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VroomieMama* 
An old babysitter that used to babysit my daughter told me that my daughter need to fight back if she ever gets bullied at school setting or etc to protect/stand up for herself. I've always disagree with this because from my experience, the 2nd person seems to always get caught and be in trouble instead of the person who starts it.

But for me, life isn't about doing things in order to avoid getting caught.

Our behavior towards others should be how we expect to be treated by others. If you don't want to be hit, don't hit. I can't believe anyone would ecourage hitting. Now, I haven't gotten to the bully stage yet, but I still would not encourage either of my children to hit if they have been hit. Words, protecting onesself, avoidance, telling a grown-up, all acceptable. Hitting, not.

People shouldn't hit other people, ever.


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## tanyam926 (May 25, 2005)

Wow, you all make really good points. I see the validity of all the arguments.

We have a no hurting policy at our house. I do see the value of teaching kiddos self defense when there is no other way to get away but I can't imagine a situation for my kids (6 and 3) where this would occur. Plus, it's kind of a hard concept to grasp. Maybe we should discuss this when my kids are older. My kids mostly smack each other when arguing and it is always possible for them to walk away, tell me or dad, use words, etc.

Very thought provoking topic though.


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## smibbo (Jan 14, 2009)

people shouldn't hit other people, but they do. sadly, many parents are more or less okay with a "little" hitting with the attitude of "boys will be boys" or "toughen them up"

That's just reality. Unless you plan on sheltering your child for life, they are going to run into someone somewhere who does not express themselves in socially acceptable manner.

But raising children is all about teaching them the nuances of social interaction. I dont' think there's ANY social rule I can make a total blanket "non-negotiable" statement about. I may start teaching my kids a simplified version of a rule but as they grow I teach them the various nuances and exceptions to the rules. Sorry but a bully is a bully and part of who they choose to pick on is the kid who doesn't fight back. Fighting back doesn't have to mean whaling on them but telling on a bully often just means the bully will learn to harrass the kid when no one is looking.

It really depends on the age-developmental level of the child. Rules start simple and become more complex as they get older. I wouldn't tell a friend that she was wrong for fighting back at a mugger, why would I want my child doing differently when caught in a child-version of the same?


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## lld (Jul 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ks Mama* 
But for me, life isn't about doing things in order to avoid getting caught.

Our behavior towards others should be how we expect to be treated by others. If you don't want to be hit, don't hit. I can't believe anyone would ecourage hitting. Now, I haven't gotten to the bully stage yet, but I still would not encourage either of my children to hit if they have been hit. Words, protecting onesself, avoidance, telling a grown-up, all acceptable. Hitting, not.

People shouldn't hit other people, ever.

I agree completely! And as a third grade, public school teacher, I would say that school age children can continue being taught that hitting is not an acceptable means of problem solving. And as for grown ups, war is not an acceptable means of problem solving. If a lot more people in this world believed that hurting other people does NOT make the world a better place, the world may actually be a better place! The only way we can change this is by teaching and modeling it to young people constantly. Hold up Gandhi, civil rights leaders and others who have participated in nonviolent struggles to overcome problems. It works, but only with dedication. A child hitting back may stop another child from hitting him/her for the moment, but what is it teaching the child about how to resolve conflicts?

I will honestly say that I am a bit surprised to see parents advocating children hitting other children on the Gentle Discipline forum...


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## treehugginhippie (Nov 29, 2004)

In our home, hitting is NEVER ok...period!


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
I'm probably in the minority here, but I agree with her. I allow my ds to "hit back" when someone is aggressive to him. Even though at home and as a rule I teach him "gentle hands," when we are out and about, like at the children's museum, for example, and another child won't leave him alone, my ds, who is naturally more aggressive, tends to hit back. I don't reprimand him. OTOH, if my ds is the aggressor and the kid he is bothering socks it to him, i won't be upset.

It is very true that sometimes, in the real world, that is the only way to get the point across to a determined bully.

While I agree that a kid hitting back is usually accepted more readily than a parent coming over and saying "Hey, you, leave my kid alone", why on earth would you encourage that? If you're observing things well enough to tell that your son was 'justified' in hitting back, why on earth weren't you stepping in BEFORE it got to that point? And using that chance to demonstrate to your son how to handle the situation without hitting?

Because in the real world, someone is aggressive to you and then you hit them back, they can still have you arrested.


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## by-the-lake (Jul 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Because in the real world, someone is aggressive to you and then you *hit them back*, they can still have you arrested.

This means a jail trip for both parties, then, not just the one defending oneself.


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Personally, I disagree with the whole hitting back thing since it will not work in the real world. I'd rather teach the child to walk away and handle problems with her brains, and not her fists.

I was a fighter as a child. I was always beating people up for bothering me or picking on a person who was weak, as I did not like when people bullied someone who could not fight back, and if a person tried to bully me thinking they were all that, I'd show them a good lesson. But when I look back at how I handled things, I kind of get disgusted because I wish I had not done it like that. My father, who was a professional light weight champion boxer encouraged my behavior. He told me it was okay to "punish them and teach them a lesson," but I'm so glad I know better now. Fighting makes you seem like you are stooping to their level; however, my father always disagreed saying that if I fought better than the others through the use of skill, then I'd be the toughest and the hero. Somehow, I now disagree. Oh, how I wish I rose up.

Now, I do believe in self defense when it is absolutely necessary, such as when a life is being threatened, or if it is not at all possible to walk away. But in most cases, it is possible. I think that the important lesson is to know when that is.

I wish you well in all this. And you are very right. It soon will pass.


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyB736* 
I always told my daughter and still tell my son that "you have to use your words", and "we don't hit", "hitting is not nice and you need to come tell Mommy, Daddy or another adult". But my daughter started getting picked on by a little girl. Whether they were playing at home, on the bus, or in preschool my daughter would always come home sad and say that this girl was hitting her and pushing her, among other things. And no matter how much I talked to her parents, teachers or bus driver it kept happening. I finally told my daughter that if this girl ever hit her again than she needs to hit her back. She did hit her back and yes the girl stopped hitting her. When I was in school I can remember hitting back and I rarely got picked on so I think when it comes to "school age" I will allow my kids to hit back if telling an adult doesn't work. For my son who is only 2 1/2 I will continue to enforce a "using nice touches" policy until he is old enough to understand standing up for yourself.










I have to say that I agree with you. This is one of the situations I'd allow my children to hit. When the adults, who are SUPPOSED to be responsable, and not that I used the operative word "supposed" since they sometimes fail to uphold things, I think it is fitting for the kids to take matters into their own hands, as ALL else has failed. I know that some of you may not agree, but I feel this way since I had encountered situations like that when I was a child. Yeah, and nobody messed with me too much because I had a reputation for never losing a single fight. Now, I don't condone violence, but I DO condone self defense.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Because in the real world, someone is aggressive to you and then you hit them back, they can still have you arrested.

And in my case, being arrested would have been just fine. Instead, I was left for dead in the middle of a busy street. All because I wanted to be "good" and not hit back and use words instead. Ha!

Yeah, I was 13 and assaulted by some so-called male "friends". And all my life it was instilled that people don't hit, ever. Period. No exceptions. So when they started attacking me, I just stood there and attempted to talk sense into them. That didn't exactly work out well for me, especially once I was unconcious.

So while I don't necessarily advocate a blanket "hit them back" policy, I definitely don't agree with the "never hit" rule. Because sometimes you _do_ need to hit. I like the idea of taking a self-defense class or learning a martial art.

Now, my oldest is only 3.5 and has yet to encounter someone really aggressive. She's also not aggressive, so physical fights haven't happened yet. I'm not sure what I'm going to do, exactly, but I'm leaning towards treating each instance as it's own. Probably most of the time I'll deem the hitting to be unnecessary, but there may be times where I don't say anything.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *by-the-lake* 
This means a jail trip for both parties, then, not just the one defending oneself.

Yeah, I realized after posting that by "aggressive" the previous posters had been referring to hitting. But the basic point still stands, the law does not support "hitting back" and it's an idiotic thing to teach your kids.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Yeah, I realized after posting that by "aggressive" the previous posters had been referring to hitting. But the basic point still stands, the law does not support "hitting back" and it's an idiotic thing to teach your kids.

But it does support self-defense and "hitting back" can be part of that. I don't want my kids growing up thinking they can't defend themselves.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazydiamond* 
And in my case, being arrested would have been just fine. Instead, I was left for dead in the middle of a busy street. All because I wanted to be "good" and not hit back and use words instead. Ha!

Yeah, I was 13 and assaulted by some so-called male "friends". And all my life it was instilled that people don't hit, ever. Period. No exceptions. So when they started attacking me, I just stood there and attempted to talk sense into them.

And if you'd be taught to recognize when the situation was beyond your abilities and to go for help, you would have been even more fine than if you'd tried to fight multiple attackers.

Self-defense is something that everyone should know, but it has to be a means to get away from a conflict not a way to end a conflict. You should be able to say after using any self-defense skill that you used the minimum amount of force necessary to get away from a conflict--not to end a conflict to get away from a conflict.

But that sort of thing requires judgment calls that children shouldn't be asked to make and with proper adult supervision there is no reason for a child to need to make them.









Part of why the "hit them back" concept makes me so annoyed is that I've got friends who think they have all these skills and think they'd take an attackers' head off if it came down to it and I know they'd just end up getting in a fight and getting seriously injured.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazydiamond* 
But it does support self-defense and "hitting back" can be part of that. I don't want my kids growing up thinking they can't defend themselves.

With an adult right there? You go ahead and "hit back" in front of a cop.

I am not in the "no hitting ever" camp, but there are choices beyond teaching kids to hit back when they get attacked.


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## Cherry Alive (Mar 11, 2007)

Jeez. I think that by encouraging other children to hit her son, your friend isn't necessarily teaching her kid not to hit, but encouraging him to secretly target children who aren't able to defend themselves. I can understand her not having the energy to be consistent very easily while pregnant, but it still smacks loudly of lazy parenting on her part.

If you want your daughter to learn self-defense, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to check out some martial arts classes geared to children. Really good ones teach kids how to avoid conflicts before they arise and how to deal with them when they happen (and that doesn't always include using physical force). They can also be very fun and a nice way for a little one to get exercise.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
And if you'd be taught to recognize when the situation was beyond your abilities and to go for help, you would have been even more fine than if you'd tried to fight multiple attackers.

What makes you think that was even a possibility?? I was ATTACKED!!! Excuse me, but you're doing the typical "blame the victim" thing here. I was a victim in a brutal attack, I had NOTHING to do with how it started.

For what it's worth, I had just gotten off the school bus and was walking to my house. The walk involved crossed a large field. It was a very quiet neighborhood and just about everyone worked. There wasn't a soul in sight. The 4 kids (all ages 16-18) had been driving in a car and following the school bus, just waiting for me to get off. As soon as I did and the school bus was out of sight, they jumped out of the car and started pushing me and shoving me and harassing me. At first I told them to stop, repeatedly. When that didn't work, I started running. But they could run faster than me so I didn't get away. At that point I should have defending myself and attacking back, but no, I just stood there while they bashed my head in. After I was unconscious, they left me in the middle of a street. Thankfully some time later a car came by and helped me.

There were no adults to go to. There was no way for me to avoid the situation escalating because they already had it in their heads what they wanted to do. So for you to imply that there was something *I* should have done is extremely insulting.

And when I pressed charges, all of the cops asked me why I didn't hit them back. They all said that I should have because by _not_ defending myself, it made it sound like I wasn't really attacked. That hurt my case, but I still won.

And you can bet that if I'm attacked in front of a police officer, you can be absolutely certain I _will_ fight back, at least until the officer can help. But I'm not going to stand their idle as someone attacks me.


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## ~girlsmum~ (May 10, 2008)

My teen COULD have gotten into plenty of trouble if she had decided to "hit back" in school; she was always bigger than her classmates so I taught her to be a gentle giant. PLUS she became an Irish dancer and taught to do high kicks, the kind that look great in shows but can literally be lethal if used on an unsuspecting student. I told her that I was never to receive a phone call from the school saying that she used any force against anyone, BUT I did teach her how to pin someone to the ground to call a teacher to deal with an altercation. A young child can be taught to yell at a hitting child that "you are NOT allowed to hit me!" If there's an adult present close by, which there should be, then an adult can deal with a hitting child, there should be no need to hit back, violence breeds violence.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazydiamond* 
What makes you think that was even a possibility?? I was ATTACKED!!! Excuse me, but you're doing the typical "blame the victim" thing here. I was a victim in a brutal attack, I had NOTHING to do with how it started.

I thought it was a possibility for you to get away because you said:
"I just stood there and attempted to talk sense into them"

Which, to me, read as though you choose to stay and talk. But even in the version I pictured, I was not blaming you for choosing to talk to them, I was blaming the people who never gave you the skills to see that you needed to run. Again, in the situation I envisioned from your first post on the topic.

Your description of the attack, and thank you for being willing to type out the attack I'm sure that was very hard and I'm so sorry that it happened to you, makes it clear that you did know to run. You are 100% correct that you needed more self-defense skills. Again absolutely not your fault in any way that you did not have those skills, especially not your fault that you didn't have self-defense skills of a level that would allow you to take on multiple attackers who had planned to attack you in particular.

I think the cops were idiots, frankly, talk about blaming the victim. Thank goodness whoever tried your case had more of a brain.

If there's a cop right there, like as close as a parent watching kids play, and you can run, you're going to be asked why you didn't run to the cop.

Anyway, to go back to the topic of the OP. Teaching a 2 year old to hit an another 2 year old back isn't anywhere close to self-defense training. And isn't going to result in the 2 year old being safe at age 13 if something, heaven forfend, happens to them like what happened to you.


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