# Car seat placement on airplane



## Heidi74 (Jan 21, 2009)

*Updated in #16--please help if you can*

At the end of this month, I will be flying from the US to Europe, with a toddler (2 yrs old) and baby in tow. (Yes, I know, I am dreading this!) I have flown alone with our older DS many times (even while pregnant), but the only flight with two kids so far has been with my husband along. This time, I'm on my own.

Unfortunately, by the time DS2 was born, the airfares had jumped to over 1500 dollars, so we were unable to get him a ticket at a decent price. In other words, he doesn't have a seat. Judging from the seat availability chart on Orbitz, I'm hoping for a seat for him, but of course I can't be sure that we'll get one. I will definitely be bringing his infant car seat to the gate, though, just in case.

We usually fly with DS1 in a CARES harness, but I am seriously considering bringing his convertible car seat on this flight. It's an overnight flight, and our experience is that he sleeps a lot better in a car seat. Yes, it will mean more of a hassle getting to the gate, but my in laws said they would buy us a car seat cart-type contraption as an early Christmas gift. With baby on my back in a Mei Tai, and the diaper bag in the infant car seat in one hand, I would probably be able to pull DS1 behind me, in his car seat.

So, here are a few questions, for those of you in the know:
-How likely is the infant car seat to get damaged if we don't get an extra seat and I have to gate-check it? I'm thinking of bringing a roll of bubble wrap to protect it.
-Can I sit between the car seats in a row of three seats, if the one next to the aisle is forward facing? DS1 has a tendency to hit DS2 these days, so I'm not sure placing them next to each other would be wise. Plus, I need to be able to help both of them.
-If I can't sit between them in a regular row, could I sit between them at the bulkhead (should I be lucky enough to get bulkhead?) Sadly, I won't know that until 24 hours in advance.
-Does anyone know if a Britax Boulevard is too big for a plane? I might be able to find a used Cosco carseat on craigslist, if that would be significantly easier.

Thanks for any ideas!


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## Miss Chris (May 7, 2007)

From what I understand you are not allowed to have a car seat in the aisle seat because FAA regulations prevent installing anything that might impede your ability to exit the plane in the case of an emergency. In fact, in any row with only one car seat, it must be installed in the window position. For two seats they could be installed in the middle and window positions, but you would not be allowed to sit between them.

I know all this because a flight attendant INCORRECTLY made me remove my daughter's CARES harness because I had her in the middle seat when I was seated in the aisle and she had misinterpreted the regulation.

I double checked with CARES and they sent me a link to the relevant regulation. Because CARES does not impede progress through the aisle it can be installed in any position. If you must sit between your children than the one at the aisle would have to be in the harness instead of the seat.

You might be best off planning to carry the small one in your sling or carrier while the older child takes the car seat. It seems like the method most likely to produce sleep for both kids.

Good luck on that flight. Just remember, whatever happens, it's temporary. As we like to say, soon this will all be but a happy memory.









Miss Chris


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## GardenStream (Aug 21, 2007)

I've flown internationally with my Britax Boulevard. It does fit, but it's difficult. The latch ends up in a really bad place that's hard to get to when the seat is facing forward. I seem to remember someone on here having a really great tip on how to install the Boulevard so that you can still get your hand back there to release the latch. I'll do some searching and see if I can find it.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *atobols* 
I've flown internationally with my Britax Boulevard. It does fit, but it's difficult. The latch ends up in a really bad place that's hard to get to when the seat is facing forward. I seem to remember someone on here having a really great tip on how to install the Boulevard so that you can still get your hand back there to release the latch. I'll do some searching and see if I can find it.

Ask for a seatbelt extended...otherwise esp. with Britax seats you'll lose a knuckle trying to get it out again.


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## GardenStream (Aug 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 
Ask for a seatbelt extended...otherwise esp. with Britax seats you'll lose a knuckle trying to get it out again.

Yep, I just found the post and that's exactly what it said. I only flew with mine about 5 times and never figured that out.









I can also confirm that you will removed a few layers of skin from your knuckles without one.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

If your oldest can RF, I'd do that for the flight so he can sleep better!


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## Heidi74 (Jan 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Miss Chris* 

You might be best off planning to carry the small one in your sling or carrier while the older child takes the car seat. It seems like the method most likely to produce sleep for both kids.

Good luck on that flight. Just remember, whatever happens, it's temporary. As we like to say, soon this will all be but a happy memory.









Miss Chris

Thanks for all the advice. I will be sure to ask for a seatbelt extender, and the idea of only bringing the convertible is great! That way, I have one less thing to lug with me (we have car seats waiting at our destination), and if I don't get an extra seat I won't have to gatecheck it. Should I be so lucky as to get an extra seat, I can put DS1 in the CARES for take-off and landing, and let DS2 (4 mos old) have the car seat for those times. Then, I can carry DS2 (we also have a Baby B'Air for turbulence-yes, we fly a lot) while DS1 naps in the car seat. This may well be the most liveable scenario.

Still dreading the flight, but it's only seven hours of our lives. If they both scream during the whole flight (and the rest of the passengers hate us), at least we'll get to our destination...


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## marrymeflyfree (Jan 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heidi74* 
-Can I sit between the car seats in a row of three seats, if the one next to the aisle is forward facing? DS1 has a tendency to hit DS2 these days, so I'm not sure placing them next to each other would be wise. Plus, I need to be able to help both of them.

This may vary depending on the company. The airline I work for has a policy that car seats can be in the middle or window seat if access to the aisle is not completely blocked by the car seat AND if the person semi-blocked by the car seat is an adult who is responsible for that child. If the airline you are flying has a similar policy, it would be problematic in that one of your children would be 'behind' one of the car seats.

The solution might lie in the type of aircraft you'll be flying. If it is a larger two-aisle plane, you could request to be in the middle section. This way, both of your kids would be in aisle seats.

Also...are you flying a US carrier? If not, you may want to double check their car seat policies, as some US car seats may not be technically approved for use on their planes.

Good luck!


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marrymeflyfree* 
This may vary depending on the company. The airline I work for has a policy that car seats can be in the middle or window seat if access to the aisle is not completely blocked by the car seat AND if the person semi-blocked by the car seat is an adult who is responsible for that child. If the airline you are flying has a similar policy, it would be problematic in that one of your children would be 'behind' one of the car seats.

The solution might lie in the type of aircraft you'll be flying. If it is a larger two-aisle plane, you could request to be in the middle section. This way, both of your kids would be in aisle seats.

Not true, the FAA clearly states that a car seat CANNOT go on an aisle and no one can sit between two car seats, even if it's the parent.

_A window seat is the preferred location; however, other locations may be acceptable, provided the CRS does not block the egress of any passenger, *including the child's parent* or guardian, to the aisle used to evacuate the aircraft_

See page 12;
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/60d70126cf679d5a8625723b007841e7/$FILE/AC%20120-87A.pdf

Again, the above is relevant only if you're flying a U.S. aircraft.

I fly alone with my three children between Europe and California about twice a year and I always bring a car seat. It's really not a problem, although not relaxing, you'll survive. Do you have my flying tips?
http://flyingwithchildren1.blogspot.com

Please don't buy one of those overpriced "Gogokidz". I transport my Radian just fine on a small metal luggage cart. Use an extra bungee and try it at home first. My toddlers could ride in it.

Some other tips on flying with Britax (I'm passing these along as I've never owned one).
-Carry it upside down and sideways when coming down the aisle.
-Ask for a selt belt extention
-Crank the seat back and raise the arm rests. After installing, return the seat to the upright position
-Flip the buckle upside down when you latch it

You can adjust the belt so that one of the buckles is easy to reach.

When getting on the plane, I've made two trips, leaving the car seat at a door. Tell a Flight Attendant that you're leaving the car seat at the door (on the inside so they know you're using it on board).

hth!


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## teeg1973 (Oct 15, 2008)

Our experience flying with our Britax Boulevard....It installed just fine and I don't recall needing a seat belt extender (maybe I did and I forgot?), but....

We were flying on Lufthansa and the flight attendants initial look of shock at the size of the car seat was something else. They tried to tell me that it was too big and they needed proof that is was approved for airline use. I couldn't find the symbol on the carseat (it may or may not be there, I don't know because I was too frazzled by it all), but thankfully I had the plastic information sheet with me that indicated it is approved for airline use. So in the end all was well, but it was a bit stressful for awhile. I also used a luggage cart to tote the carseat, but I never tried it with DD in it.

Good luck! Most of our international flights have gone much better than I ever expected (knock on wood).

Tracy


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## MaryJaneLouise (Jul 26, 2005)

You can also use a Travelling Toddler

http://www.amazon.com/Traveling-Todd.../dp/B000JHN3AS

to hook up the seat to a wheeled suitcase. Overpriced for a simple strap, but still only $15.


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## marrymeflyfree (Jan 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eclipsepearl* 
Not true, the FAA clearly states that a car seat CANNOT go on an aisle and no one can sit between two car seats, even if it's the parent.

_A window seat is the preferred location; however, other locations may be acceptable, provided the CRS does not block the egress of any passenger, *including the child's parent* or guardian, to the aisle used to evacuate the aircraft_

I guess the 'however, other locations may be acceptable, provided the CRS does not block the egress...' part was confusing?

As I said, at the airline for which I work, it is acceptable to place a car seat in the middle or aisle seat *so long as it does not completely block access to the aisle.*


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

Love your screenname!

Both airlines I worked for didn't allow car seats on aisles. Perhaps if there were no one in the aisle but that would be silly







Double check with your manual and your supervisor because there it is in black & white straight from the FAA. Don't risk a nasty fine by an FAA inspector!!!


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## marrymeflyfree (Jan 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eclipsepearl* 
Love your screenname!

Both airlines I worked for didn't allow car seats on aisles. Perhaps if there were no one in the aisle but that would be silly







Double check with your manual and your supervisor because there it is in black & white straight from the FAA. Don't risk a nasty fine by an FAA inspector!!!


If you re-read the FAA directive that you quoted, you will see that no one (including the parent) may be _blocked_ by the car seat. But if egress is not impeded, it is permissible. Perhaps some airlines choose not to take advantage of this because of other reasons...perhaps they don't want to put their FA's in the position of making judgement calls on it, or they know that their fleets do not have enough seat pitch to make this possible. The carrier I work for has chosen to adopt a more flexible policy, and as you know all part 121 carriers must have their P&P's approved by the FAA. My passengers certainly appreciate the flexibility...being able to take the window seat on a long flight is great, and of course sometimes it's nice to seat the kid between two parents.

Anyway, to be topical, the moral of the story is to ask your flight attendant. All carriers are not created equal.


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

That would have been great if I could have done this on my last flight! My kids were fighting over who would sit next to me but I had to have the little one on the inside. We always take seats in the center (no windows).

I'll change my blog but both airlines were clear on this. "Egress" meant the seat could not protrude beyond the end of the seat. This means most car seats wont cut the test but I have a Radian. That definitely would have met the criteria (didn't exist when I went through training).

I think both airlines didn't want us making judgement calls on it and they also cited the fact that the seat couldn't be pushed forward (in an emergency).

Your airline must have majorly big pitch!!


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## Heidi74 (Jan 21, 2009)

First of all, thanks for all the wonderful replies, especially from you flight attendants.

OK, now I'm really in a panic here. I just got off the phone with the airline I'll be flying with, and we did not get a bassinet. We did put in a request for one when we made the reservation, but I guess there was some misinformation and we were told we'd have to order it 24 hours in advance, when really they could have put in the request then and there. Now, someone else is in the only bulkhead on the plane.

We did not buy a seat for DS2 because by the time he was born and got his birth certificate and passports, the prices had skyrocketed. We would literally have been shelling out close to 2000 dollars for a seat for him. In comparison, our seats each cost around 500 when we bought them. (He was 5 weeks old when we left Norway, and at the time we were on a flight with plenty of extra seats, and my husband was along.)

It turns out that the return flight (which I will be undergoing alone, with the two kids) is almost full, and the seat row we are in has another person in it. In other words, unless they can do something about it at the airport I will be sitting in a middle seat with a 21 lb baby on my lap, squashed between a Britax Boulevard with my antsy toddler in it on one side, and some unsuspecting passenger on the aisle. (Boy, did that person get a great deal!) It is an eight hour flight, so I will be breastfeeding there too. Also, frankly, I don't like having baby on my lap for safety reasons. That said, we really cant be paying an exorbitant amount of money for a seat either, when the risks are so minimal.

I called the airline and asked about buying a ticket, but even a one way for an infant would be about 2000 dollars. I suggested looping it with another ticket and just not using the return portion (I got an adult rate on Orbitz for 700, using Friday as the departure date and some random date as the return), but she said that is not possible. We simply cannot spend 2000 dollars on a seat. We can't afford that.

Any ideas...at all? Will the Britax spill into my space, and would another (cheap) car seat take less space than the Britax? For example a Cosco seat? If so, is it worth buying one just for that extra inch or so?

I knew this could happen, but was trying not to think about it. Judging from the seat map on Orbitz there are still 18 seats left in economy or economy plus, but they are scattered all through the plane and not in our row. Also, they may fill before Friday.

Any thoughts at all? (Other than, you should have bought that 2000 dollar ticket...)


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

If the flight isn't even full, let alone overbooked, you still have a good chance of getting that extra seat. The "loads" as we called them, often drop. I've left on many supposedly overbooked flights with empty places. Whey the airlines overbook in the first place!

Also, seat assignments are not set in stone. The person at the bulkhead could change his reservation, or get upgraded, whatever. Still try for the bulkhead.

On our last flight, we were originally separated. I choose the seats left according to their "tradeablility" (the revs agent was laughing, I know the game!) So I got two aisles, a window with only one person next to them, etc. The agent over the phone said that calling closer to the flight date wouldn't do any good but that my best hope was at the check-in counter on the day.

I totally disregarded his advice and called within 48 hours of my departure. Sure enough, they had had a cancellation and we were all in a row on our own!!!

So try that...

Also, I think a smaller seat would make your life easier. Is it a U.S. company?


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## beru (Nov 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *atobols* 
I've flown internationally with my Britax Boulevard. It does fit, but it's difficult. The latch ends up in a really bad place that's hard to get to when the seat is facing forward. I seem to remember someone on here having a really great tip on how to install the Boulevard so that you can still get your hand back there to release the latch. I'll do some searching and see if I can find it.

I didn't know at the time that I would need a seatbelt extender for my FPVD (basically its a Britax Marathon). I couldn't get the seat out at the end of the flight. The flight attendant couldn't get it out either and asked for assistance from another crew person. Finally, they called maintenance and he ended up taking the airplane seat apart in order to detach the seat belt! I am hopefully going to use a scenera on our next flight.


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## MCsMom (Jan 15, 2006)

As soon as you get to the gate - ask them to move the person sitting next to you. I have had them do this more then once for me and they always have if there are any seats available. In fact, they have even moved the person sitting next to my DD it was a two and two plane and we had 2 on one and 1 on the other.


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## marrymeflyfree (Jan 5, 2008)

Ditto what Eclipse said about continuing to check back with the airline...passengers change their itineraries often, especially around the holidays - and keep in mind that the frequent flyers who are likely the ones booked at the bulkhead may very well get an upgrade and leave those seats empty. Also, hope for bad weather on your travel day.







The more people who miss their connections, the better your chance at getting the seat you want!

One other thing...the bulkhead seats near the bassinets are occasionally held back from advanced reservations in case a disabled passenger needs it. It depends a bit on the configuration of the airplane and if the airline has designated those seats to accommodate those passengers. They may be held until the day before departure - so it pays to keep checking in case those seats are released.


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