# Accidental Circumcision?



## Hollin (Jun 26, 2005)

Has anyone ever heard of a baby who was born at a hospital getting circ'ed by accident even if the parents didn't want it? I had a friend tell me I need to be really careful or else this could happen. She claims it happened to her, but I think maybe she's lying because she feels guilty about circumcising or something. Wouldn't you have to sign paperwork before they'd be allowed to do it anyway? I know you usually have to pay before they'll do it, but my insurance covers circumcision









I don't know why this is freaking me out so much. I don't plan on being separated from my baby at all in the hospital anyway so it's not like they'd get the chance. Maybe it's just mom-to-be general anxiety. Is this a legitimate concern or can I stop worrying?


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## Marlet (Sep 9, 2004)

I'd imagine you'd have to sign a paper to have it happen. I know the hospitals around me don't do it anymore...you need to schedule an appointment with someone else to have it done. I'm not an expert though since I have a little girl.


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## happymomma (Jun 27, 2004)

I did not sign anything. They took him for a hearing test and he came back cut. It does happen. I'm sure how often but it does happen.


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## SneakyPie (Jan 13, 2002)

happymomma -- thank you for sharing such a painful experience. I'm so sorry. I swear to god this was my own actual fear -- that our son would get taken away during the hearing test or his PKU -- even though all the staff applauded our decision to keep our son's foreskin. From that fear, I never let our son out of our ARMS, let alone our sight -- our circumstances worked to allow this & the staff was great about bringing everything to us. (I'm NOT saying you should have done anything different -- just sympathizing w/the OPs concern.)


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

We've had several mothers here whose sons were circumcised without their consent. Before the 1980's, it was common and there were many boys circumcised on purpose and against the parents explict instructions. It's clear that those were no accident and I suspect that at least some of those in recent years were not accidental. I suspect that if you dug into the records of those patients, the doctor who did it would have many circumcisions without consent and has been getting away with it.

Frank


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

When my sons were born and had to go to the nursery for the tests, I insisted on going with him and watched the nurses and doctors every step of the way.


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

I didn't have to sign anything for DS not to be circ'd (in some hospitals you sign a refusal form) and I was worried that they'd get mixed up and circ him without my consent. They asked me right after he was born, before I even held him (I had a C/S) if I wanted him circ'd and I know that if I had said yes, he would have been done then and there before I even got to hold him.







I made sure to check up on him often. His ped asked the day we were discharged and when I said no, he said "Yeah, there's no reason to do it, but I don't try to discourage parents from getting it done, because it's a procedure and I like doing procedures."







Needless to say, I did NOT leave DS alone with that man!


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## dynamohumm6 (Feb 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *minkajane*
His ped asked the day we were discharged and when I said no, he said "Yeah, there's no reason to do it, but I don't try to discourage parents from getting it done, because it's a procedure and I like doing procedures."







Needless to say, I did NOT leave DS alone with that man!

Holy. Jumping. Crap.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

It happens. One of OH-so-many reasons I will never choose to birth in a hospital.

-Angela


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## Brinda (Oct 28, 2005)

YES, here at our hospital, it is so routine you don't even sign papers for it. I had to remind both my OB (who does it), the NICU nurses, the ped, and had to write in big bold red letters across every page in his chart AND on the front NO CIRC


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *minkajane*
"Yeah, there's no reason to do it, but I don't try to discourage parents from getting it done, because it's a procedure and I like doing procedures."









: Say WHAT?!?!?!?!


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## Dave2GA (Jul 31, 2005)

Wrongful circs happen day in and day out in this country. Since 1995 I have represented over 20 babies who were cut against their parents wishes! Every parent whose child has been circed against their wishes should sue! Unfortunately many lawyers do not think such a case is worth bringing. But they are always worth it to me and my clients. There is absolutely no excuse for this ever happening. It is always malpractice. The hospital almost always has liability too because usually there is an assisting nurse who is supposed to check the chart. It seems the rush to get that fee overcomes the sense of responsibility to check the chart to make sure there is a signed permit slip there. When we had our last son I noticed that a Jewish couple who were going to have a home bris had marked their son's bassinet with some masking tape reading "NO CIRCUMCISION." I immediately did likewise with my son's bassinet. That should work. Another precaution, if you cannot keep your son with you at all times, is to get the baby shirt from NOCIRC that has the international symbol for "NO" with the word circumcision in the middle of it. Put it on him as soon as he is born and insist that it stay on him. And remember that you may be solicited for circ at the worst times. We were asked when we went in for our first son's birth, and then immediately upon his being born the nurse in the delivery room was asking us again. I know of women who have been awakened early in the a.m. and while groggy from medicine after a C-section have been asked to sign a consent form.


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## Jasmyn's Mum (May 24, 2004)

Although we had a girl in hospital (if I had to do it again I would've had her at home), I was concerned that they were going to do things to dd without our consent. We never let her leave our sight for a second. Not even for weighing or measurements.


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Quote:

Before the 1980's, it was common


















































































































When we were having our first child, my MIL told me that her first son was done without her explicit consent. He was taken to the nursery, and was brought back cut. This was in '71, in a hospital on the east coast that is in a firmly middle class neighborhood.

She had my DH circed, in part because she did not want the 2 boys to look different from one another (at least, this was the PRIMARY reason she gave me when we discussed it. There may have been other reasons). This was in '73, and she said by that time, despite delivering in the same hospital, she was asked what her wishes were, instead of the hospital staff assuming she wanted it done.

I'm FAIRLY sure that my mom was given the choice in '81, at the hospital where my brother and I were born. It is a hospital that services a more working class area. Of course, she chose to have it done, so I do not know what the outcome would have been if she hadn't.

I gave birth to my oldest son at the same hospital my brother and I were born at, was asked what my choice was, and it was respected.

I think whether your choice is respected or not depends a lot on where the hospital is located, the individual staff, and whether the majority of the parents choose to circ, or leave their children intact.


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## Past_VNE (Dec 13, 2003)

Your question has been answered about the current times. It still happens, obviously.









My DH was done at a Philadelphia birthing center against my MIL and FIL's explicit demands to leave him intact. They called it an accident.







No way.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Before I had ds, and I was pregnant, I had not yet discovered mothering.com.

Nevertheless, as soon as I knew I was having a boy, I jumped on the net, and looked up circumcision, promptly decided not too do it after reading the facts (mostly on the mothers against circumcision website), showed my husband this info and worked at convincing him, and joined a yahoo group called "wacky world of circumcision".

That group consists of a few gentleman who work to protect baby boys and to inform the future and expecting parents of facts, and offer support.

With their guidance, I purchased a small package of onsie shirts, and a permanent marker, and marked "do not circumcise!" on each one. I put this in the bag of baby things I would take with me to the hospital.

Under their advice, I also had my hubby (who I had now successfully turned against circumcision) to follow my little one around whenever they had to take him out of my room. My hubby was with him each and every time they had to take him out, so I never really needed to break out the shirts.

I would suggest to all mother's to room their little boys with them if possible. If it is not possible, then make up some shirts to put on your newborn little one when he cannot be with you or your hubby. (If your hubby is also against circ...)


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gabysmom617*
I would suggest to all mother's to room their little boys with them if possible.

And unless your baby (or you) have severe problems, there is no reason they should "have" to take your baby from your room. Any of the newborn procedures that you choose to have done should be done in your presence (except I understand that the hearing test is not portable, but they should allow you in the nursery for it). It is your right to insist that your baby be kept with you!


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## LeosMama (Sep 6, 2005)

I held my son in the rocking chair next to the hearing machine. They laid him in the bassinet thingy for the PKU test and the shots, etc. We won't be doing vit K or eye drops next time.
The next time will be a homebirth to avoid these dangers and unnecessary interventions. If we have to go to hospital for an emergency, we will have t-shirts and stickers to help head-off the requests for circ. And DH will not let that baby out of his arms, much less his sight!


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Actually, they gave my baby his hearing test in my arms, while he slept. The poor girl came in my room 3 times trying to catch him while he was sleeping to give it to him, but each time the little monster was awake nursing. So she waited the last time (hours before it was time for me to leave!) for him to finish nursing and for me to put him down.

But alas my little teeny monster would have no part of anybody putting him down. He always cried. (still hates it a little, 6 months later!) So she waited for me to get him comfortable in my arms, and she did the hearing test right there.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Yes, I also remember holding my DS for his hearing test.


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## momsmyjob (Oct 7, 2003)

None of my boys are circ'd. My first 2 boys I birth in a hospital and even though I had it in my chart and my OB's chart, NO CIRC, the nurse came in a said, "time to take him to be circ'd." I said, no way, not this baby! My heart skipped a beat! Imagine, if he had not been in the room with me, it makes me cringe to think what could have happened!


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happymomma*
I did not sign anything. They took him for a hearing test and he came back cut. It does happen. I'm sure how often but it does happen.

OMG! i've given birth in two of the hospitals in your area in '01 & '03; do you mind letting me know which ones did this? (pm me if you aren't comfortable.)

i hope you pursued legal action to keep it from happening to anyone else. (fwiw, the circ slips were in there with the hep b slip, various fiscal responsibility slips, etc. of course, given to me while i was in transition vomiting my head off. could they have done this to you?)

my dh is shocked, but comforted to know that he was not being paranoid not letting the babies out of our sight. i'm so sorry for your baby's loss.

(the centennial nurses were glad & relieved we didn't, but the southern hills folked fair pushed it down our throats. i am afraid i got a bit testy with them.)

dave, do you know any tn lawyers that could help her with this, if she hasn't already sued or settled?


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## JoyofBirth (Mar 16, 2004)

They did Emma's hearing test in our room. SHe said she had to be in the plastic thing, but I didn't mind. I was right there and so was a lot of my family. I would recommend keeping any baby-boy or girl-with a parent at all times. They are the only ones who can refuse care. We asked them to do everything in our room and they did. I don't think all the nurses liked it too much but they did it. The only time she went anywhere was when the ped finally came (long story) and didn't want to come to our room because he had too many babies to see. We okayed this so that we could get her discharged and go home. We walked down with her and watched her. And I asked the nurse to ask the dr to look at her first and bring her right out, because there were like 30 babies in there lined up in those things crying. I don't understand why they have nurseries. Drs normally have to go room-to-room to see patients and they have to go to the rooms to talk to the parents. You don't see all the grown-up sick people being herded into one room and waiting their turn. Anyway, I didn't mean to get off on a tangent. I'd also recommend putting your own clothes on your baby and the writing on the T-shirt thing is a great idea. Probably would be good to write on the diapers too if you are going to use the sposies in the hospital. Good luck!


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

My son almost did. I was in the bathroom and the nurse started to push him out of the room. I asked why and she said to circumcise him. I told her to put him back we weren't doing that. She was dumbfounded but pushed him across the room.

I would watch him close. Put in your birthplan NO CIRCUMCISSION. Write it on everything.


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## willowsmama (Jan 11, 2003)

I was terrified of this happening when I gave birth to my son. My dh thought i was going a touch overboard but I-

told the dr. several times no circ.

had no circ in my birth plan

made sure my doula knew about my decision

told every nurse I saw NO CIRC repeatedly

had ds with me/dh all the time

My dr. wrote 'NOCIRC' in big red ink on the nursery board. They list all the babies there and any special instructions.lol

ds went to the nursery for his hearing test, I asked dh to go with him. when they were gone for awhile (too long IMO) I freaked and hightailed to the nursery myself.lol


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JoyofBirth*
Probably would be good to write on the diapers too if you are going to use the sposies in the hospital. Good luck!


nak

i forgot; i did that also


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## mahogny (Oct 16, 2003)

When my DS was born 4 years ago, I was asked before delivery if I would want him circ'ed, (and I may have been asked the next day, too, I don't remember) and I replied no, and that was that. But of course, he was never left alone, either. But either way, I don't remember it being a big deal.

After DD was born 10 months ago, I was in the nursery for her appointed time for the check up. The doctor was running late, and I was getting very antsey. Finally, a surgical nurse walked in and said, "He'll be right here - he had to do a circumcision before discharge." I, in my postpartum haze, thought they were talking about my baby (even though she was right there in front of me) and replied, "NO NO NO! I had a GIRL!" The nurse kind of chuckled and said, "No, it was another baby!"


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## Nanners (Nov 28, 2004)

My ds had his hearing test in my arms, too.

This issue occured to me while I was pg, and I was uber vigilant while we were in the hospital. There was no mention of actually doing it, but the OB's office billed me for it. Can you believe that? 2k!! They seemed reluctant to believe me when I called to straighten it out until I offered to bring my INTACT baby in and show them...







Morons.


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## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

Ugh, not circing should be the default. When I had ds, dh was deployed and I was having him in a military hospital. So, I was doubly afraid that ds would be circ'd against my wishes. Yes, I could have gone with him every time they took him for "tests", but I selfishly chose to rest (sleep) or shower. I didn't remember having signed any consent forms, but you never know, they could have been slipped in somewhere. So, I asked to ensure that I hadn't already given consent. The nurse said that "Oh, we don't give the forms until after birth and the parents must come up to us and ask for them and schedule the circumcision." That's why I was somewhat comfortable letting him go for "tests". He wasn't circ'd. However, dh wanted it done, so I asked his ped if dh could request it be done at his 4 month well-baby (the first one at which he was home), and was told, "no, it's too late to not use anesthesia and we don't do elective surgeries on children younger than a year".


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## njeb (Sep 10, 2002)

To the OP: if you live in a high-circ. area, be VERY vigilant! The other posters have given you good advice, but in high-circ. areas, it will be assumed that you will want your baby circ'ed. Assertions from you and your dh that you don't want him cut will be met with disbelief, and you will be asked repeatedly, "when do you want him circ'ed?"







: The highest circ. areas of the country are the rural Midwest states.
Be strong, mama. We will be your support, if need be. Congratulations to you for leaving your baby intact!


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## zak (Mar 6, 2005)

I didn't deliver in a hospital... if I had... I would have made sure I brought a sharpie with me and written on anythign and everything NO CIRC! Diapers, heck I might even be tempted to write in on the babe's abdomen. I'm a pretty "fearful" person in general and think of worst case scenarios... like what if they have to knock me unconcious and take the babe? What if hubby can't be around for it?

Print out signs and stickers for your room. (You can do it for other things you don't want that are important to you - vaccinations, Hep B shot, eye goop, Vit K shot, etc)

Just some advice


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## happymomma (Jun 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *suseyblue*
OMG! i've given birth in two of the hospitals in your area in '01 & '03; do you mind letting me know which ones did this? (pm me if you aren't comfortable.)

i hope you pursued legal action to keep it from happening to anyone else. (fwiw, the circ slips were in there with the hep b slip, various fiscal responsibility slips, etc. of course, given to me while i was in transition vomiting my head off. could they have done this to you?)

my dh is shocked, but comforted to know that he was not being paranoid not letting the babies out of our sight. i'm so sorry for your baby's loss.

(the centennial nurses were glad & relieved we didn't, but the southern hills folked fair pushed it down our throats. i am afraid i got a bit testy with them.)

dave, do you know any tn lawyers that could help her with this, if she hasn't already sued or settled?


It happened in FL. We just moved here to TN.

I should have been there for the hearing test but it was the 3rd attempt so I figured I could shower quickly while he was gone.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2lilsweetfoxes*
....so I asked his ped if dh could request it be done at his 4 month well-baby (the first one at which he was home), and was told, "no, it's too late to not use anesthesia and we don't do elective surgeries on children younger than a year".

....wha..?!? do they realize how stupid that was!? Do they even realize how utterly ridiculous and conflicting that was?


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## baybee (Jan 24, 2005)

The problem with saying "No Circ" is that it creates an image in the mind of circ. Most hospital staff are on automatic all the time. The smartest way to survive in a hospital is to get yourself off the assembly line in some way---ask for vegetarian diet, have an allergy to penicillin, have a really strangely spelled name, etc.

Then, I would put a statement saying what you WANT rather than what you DON'T want.

For instance, write on the diaper in felt pen
"This boy stays intact"
"My son's foreskin is sacred"

If you really want to make a vivid impression, make an 8 X 12 card for the baby's
bed that says "Baby with intact foreskin and lawyer to protect him".
Baybee


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nanners*
but the OB's office billed me for it. Can you believe that? 2k!!

Am I misreading this or are you really saying they billed $2,000.00 for the circumcision?

I have heard of hospitals that bill for circumcision on all boys covered by insurance or Medicaid whether they were actually circumcised or not. Maybe that is what happened with you.

Frank


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## mm's mom (Nov 4, 2005)

My DS didn't get accidently circumsized, BUT, I did get BILLED for the circumcision that never happened!!! (thank goodness that was the extent of the confusion!)

needless to say, I called and told the billing office at the hospital they were more than welcome to come on over and take a look for evidence of the fact he wasn't circ'ed!

They fixed the bill!


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## calice (Jul 31, 2005)

Yes it has happened quite a bit in the past. In a Dallas-area hospial in 1998 there was an incidence of this. They found out the OB had done it in the past! So he had an enjoyment of doing so. The dr. was Roosevelt Taylor Jr. and still practices in the Dallas area. Encourage any parent you know to seek the fullest legal remedy allowed by law if this happens to them. If you birth in a hospital I recommend you attach a paper to your chart that you do not want your son circumcised and you refuse to allow anyone to retract your baby's foreskin. Also, contact NOCIRC about getting a t-shirt that has a line through the word circumcision.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hollin*
Has anyone ever heard of a baby who was born at a hospital getting circ'ed by accident even if the parents didn't want it? I had a friend tell me I need to be really careful or else this could happen. She claims it happened to her, but I think maybe she's lying because she feels guilty about circumcising or something. Wouldn't you have to sign paperwork before they'd be allowed to do it anyway? I know you usually have to pay before they'll do it, but my insurance covers circumcision









I don't know why this is freaking me out so much. I don't plan on being separated from my baby at all in the hospital anyway so it's not like they'd get the chance. Maybe it's just mom-to-be general anxiety. Is this a legitimate concern or can I stop worrying?


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

I think Dr. Roosevelt Taylor deserves a front row position in the Circumcision Hall of Shame:

http://www.nocircnc.org/texas.htm

"Dr. Taylor has been cited for wrongful surgery before: in 1991 Dr. Taylor received a public reprimand by the Texas Medical Board for performing surgery without consent."

"But this latest case is not one of medical error, according to Hardy and Harlan; they believe that Dr. Taylor deliberately circumcised their newborn son against their stated wishes. The Texas Medical Board issued Dr. Taylor a second public reprimand on May 19, 2000 for "failure to practice medicine in an acceptable manner."

"We were hysterical," recalls Randi, "But when Dr. Taylor stopped by the room his only comment was 'It's not the end of the world."

"Dr. Taylor's lack of concern was replayed in the responses Hardy and Harlan received from successive medical and government personnel as they tried to find justice for their newborn child. An attempt to file a police report was met with an amused reaction on behalf of the Dallas police who then advised the couple that a wrongful surgery "was not a criminal matter". The Dallas County District Attorney's office explained to the couple that a public case was not "worth their time".

"The couple sought assistance from the state's attorney general, the federal attorney general's office, and even the Texas Governor's office, but, according to the couple, "We were just laughed at every step of the way." Governor George W. Bush simply issued a letter stating that their case needed to be handled by the Texas Medical Board."

"We were told by Medicaid that performing this surgery without consent does not constitute fraud."

"It's not about the money, it's about stopping doctors from performing an unnecessary surgery when the parents say 'No.'," says Randi Harlan. "Dr. Taylor has done this twice now and he's still out there practicing like what he did was no problem", she continues. "If the doctor had carved his initials in our son's stomach, he would not be allowed to practice medicine. But since he cut off our son's foreskin against our wishes, people think it is funny and all the doctor gets is a slap on the wrist. This is simply not right. I wonder how many other families this has happened to, but they gave up the fight after being laughed at and receiving no support?"


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Ok, I think It's gonna be my goal to make newborn diapers with NO CIRC Embroidered, embellished or what, and Sell them and donate all profits from said diapers to NOCIRC.

A: It'll get the message across. B: Funds go to a good cause.

And for after, A special diap will be made "NO RETRACT!" on the front pannel too. I think I'll have to make many many more of those









Gotta figure out how to do it tho...


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## mommystinch (May 18, 2004)

This is a good point. Unfortunately, they may see circ, and go for it. Dh and I once watched a show about people who were operated on wrong (wrong knee, arm, etc). The narrator suggested writing on your knees "This one" or "Not This One" before your surgery. However, dh is a scrub tech and told me that is a horrible idea. According to him, many drs will see writting and automatically go to make the cut because usually only the surgical area is marked.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *baybee*
The problem with saying "No Circ" is that it creates an image in the mind of circ. Most hospital staff are on automatic all the time. The smartest way to survive in a hospital is to get yourself off the assembly line in some way---ask for vegetarian diet, have an allergy to penicillin, have a really strangely spelled name, etc.

Then, I would put a statement saying what you WANT rather than what you DON'T want.

For instance, write on the diaper in felt pen
"This boy stays intact"
"My son's foreskin is sacred"

If you really want to make a vivid impression, make an 8 X 12 card for the baby's
bed that says "Baby with intact foreskin and lawyer to protect him".
Baybee


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## CallMeMommy (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *baybee*
If you really want to make a vivid impression, make an 8 X 12 card for the baby's
bed that says "Baby with intact foreskin and lawyer to protect him".









I'm going to use that if I ever get the chance!


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## Benji'sMom (Sep 14, 2004)

I'm jumping in late but my BIL was circ'd (not by accident, the doctor did it on purpose), immediately after MIL specifically told the doctor "NO." The Dr. just did what he wanted.


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