# So Fed up after dining out



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Sometimes, I think I want to quit, LOL. (Actually, no LOL-seriously)

I just took my 4yr old and 17m old to a diner for dinner and it was absolutley ridiculous. Its not even worth my time to go out anymore!

My son wouldnt leave the candy machines alone he sat next to them and played with them the entire time-I wasnt ready to physically restrain him to his chair. He takes off running (I thought we were done with that in the 2's) and I cant fine him. (Happened at target earlier and I have the baby in a sling or cart and cant run as fast as him.) Back to the restaurant-he ate 5 jellys out of the container and drank syrup out of the bottle after me repeatedly telling him not to. Refused to eat dinner (a recurring theme latley-and then he beggs for food at bedtime. I usually give it to him or it will take me 4 hours to put my starving kid to bed) The ONLY thing that gets his attention is threatening. I have to constantly threaten him with bedtime, loss of storytime, etc. I hate doing it but nothing else works. I really hate to say this but I seriously wonder if something is wrong with him. I feel like I have a braindead child sometimes and I dont know what to do. That makes me feel terrible because everyone assures me he is normal. Sometimes when I try to communicate with him I feel like "What the hell is wrong with him?!?!?!" He just completley ignores me about 40% of the time-just in normal conversations. Is this the beginnings of a man? LOL. actually sounds like the hubby now that I look at it.

He also argued with everything I said, from the choices I gave him for dinner, to me asking him to stop eating jelly from the containers. He is really making me angry. I cant think of any consequences to give when we are at a diner or store? How do you teach your child not to be a lil shit?







: Thats how I feel about his attitude for dinner tonight. He was acting like a little monster.

That prompts me to ask-since his biggest role model is dh, and dh has untreated adhd, could son become sort of adhd just by modeling after daddy?

Any advice on GD? I dont have anything in my tool box? I am going to try to find some books on the list, they are going to be my summer reading list. LOL

Jenny


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

I'm not sure diners or restaurants are ideal environments for most children. I know people take their kids to them but it's something I personally avoid. Maybe if my ds liked to eat it would be different







.

How to Talk so that Kids Listen might be a good book to start out with.

It's a good idea to remind a child how you expect him to behave before going someplace. Then be prepared to leave if necessary. I had to leave ds at home with dh for a long while because he made errands completely impossible. I still avoid taking him shopping.

Oh, it really helped if I phrased things positively. Instead of saying "don't run" say "remember to walk" or "stay where you can see me", for instance. So tell the child what TO do rather than what not to do.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Any advice on GD? I dont have anything in my tool box? I am going to try to find some books on the list, they are going to be my summer reading list. LOL

Do you mean generally or specifically for restaurant situations? Because if it's the latter, I think the most valuable advice is "Don't go."









Up until about a year and a half ago (ds is 6.5 now), when someone suggested going out to dinner as a a way to relax, my stock response was, "That's about the least relaxing thing I can think of right now." Restaurants just generally don't work well for many kids. The exception for us was a local Mexican place where we could sit at the "bar" in the middle of the day when it was relatively empty and no one cared if ds got up and walked around.

It gets better. It just takes a little growing up.


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## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

I don't give my children food choices in restaurants because it overwhelms them. When they do get into something they're not supposed to (like syrup bottles), I take that item away. I inform that if they don't stay in their seats, we're leaving and they don't get to eat out.

Children have to learn how to behave in public. Letting them run all over can get someone hurt--either the child or a server.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

If its not relaxing for everyone, why go? Eating out isn't a necessity most of the time.

That said, kids do need to learn to behave in restaurants, as the PP said. But we have to put an incredible amount of work into it and its best done in small doses. Until my kids were at least 4, we rarely ate out at dinner time because by then everyone is tired, hungry, tense, and generally not up to it. On the rare occassions when we did, the restaurant was carefully picked to have food the kids liked, be quick, be relatively tolerant of noise. We went early, before everyone was hungry and frazzled. We went because the kids thought it would be fun, not because I didn't want to cook for the most part. We brought stuff for the kids to do to keep them quiet and occupied -- travel games, coloring, small cars or animals. We talked to them and encouraged positive behaviour. And I never, ever took two kids by myself. And if things got out of hand, one of us took the kids to the car and the other got the packed to go and paid the bill. Reasonable expectations help -- frankly, I probably would have let the jelly go but removed the syrup bottle at the first hint of trouble.

Lunch can be a lot easier place to start, by the way.


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## Adastra (May 30, 2007)

I agree with the posters that say "don't go to restaurants" - for a while, anyway. Until you can depend on DS to listen to you and behave nicely. Many kids go through a stage like that (I couldn't take my oldest anywhere with an escalator for about 6 months, weird, huh?)

I also would stop taking him anyplace where he ran away - but maybe that's just me and my fear of losing a little one in a public place!

It kind of worries me that he doesn't seem to listen to you - has he had his hearing checked? Does he listen better to other people?


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
Lunch can be a lot easier place to start, by the way.

Definitely.







We used to go to our Mexican place almost exclusively at lunch because he and I were both in better spirits and it was less crowded (which got us our food faster, too). It helped him learn how to be in a restaurant without me having to feel like a harping meanyhead.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

We do not eat out too much at home....mostly because our restuarants suck...... But anyway, we do have to eat out frequently during travel and dh occasionally has to take dd to business dinners with him (which is SOOOO much fun for everyone.....).

We have found ways to make it as relaxing for everyone. First off, no one is allowed to wander from thier seats. It is not exactly a "rule" but over the years we have made it clear that wandering is distracting and unsafe. In dd's few dabblings with wandering, we have had our food packed up and taken it somewhere that wandering is OK, like the park in warm weather. If dd cannot sit through a meal, she cannot sit through a meal. It is not necessarily a discipline issue as it is a developmental issue. If it is not feasible to leave, we take turns wandering with her to the bathroom or jukebox or fishtank or whatever is available. Dd also still sits in a highchair at home so until recently, we had her in highchairs at restaurants. They were more comfy for dd to be seated properly and discouraged wandering.

I also come armed with restaurant-only toys. Small pots of playdough, mini magna-doodle, small sticker book, roll of scotch tape, etc..... Although I no longer have to do this, I used to ask the hostess/waitress to remove all of the sugar/jelly/condiments before seating us. While I do not necessraily care if dd plays with them, I am sure other diners would prefer that their food was not pre-handled by toddler hands. Dd lost interest in them about a year ago but if she had not, I would still (discretely) request the be removed.

I always have snacks in my purse for emengencies. If dd was close to meltdown I would order something that could come right away or hit up the bartenders for fruit slices/olives/pickles/etc...... We try to avoid refined foods so if crackers are the only option, I would pull out the emergency purse snacks. Most restaurants have soup or salad that make a good appetizer for small kids.....and they can usually be brought out right away.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adastra* 

It kind of worries me that he doesn't seem to listen to you - has he had his hearing checked? Does he listen better to other people?

He hasnt had his hearing checked. I have these visions of the autism show I saw on oprah where the first sign was the not listening. (It was like 2 yr olds though.) Its a huge fear on my part that he is autistic or adhd.

Jenny


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

I can relate...

We eat out as a family once per week (for my sanity).

What helps is going when DS is *hungry* AND going to an All You Can Eat-type Buffet. Because when we get there, we fix his plate, and he starts eating immediately (remember he was hungry).

That way, once we get our table, we can get our plates and start eating.

But the first thing we do (for safety) is to strap DS (Age 4 in July) into the high chairs provided for by the restaurant and DH and I each take turns going to the Buffet.

DS is NOT ready for a "sit down and wait for a waiter/waitress" come and take your order-type of restaurant. And DH doesn't believe in him having crayons and coloring book at the table.

He says "this is Dinner time, not play time".

We don't encounter the candy machines until we are exiting the restaurant. And yes, DS has to stop and play with them but DH just picks him up and we continue out of the restaurant.


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## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:

But the first thing we do (for safety) is to strap DS (Age 4 in July) into the high chairs provided for by the restaurant and DH and I each take turns going to the Buffet.
Wait: why do you have to strap him down if you're taking turns? Wouldn't one parent be there to watch him?

My 4-year-old would refuse to and be humiliated by the very idea of a highchair. But I know 4-year-olds vary.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiflywaif* 
My 4-year-old would refuse to and be humiliated by the very idea of a highchair. But I know 4-year-olds vary.

Yes, 4-year olds vary. And it's not the high chair you are probably thinking of...(think Fisher Price) kind of like a tall wooden chair with an open back...

He is not humiliated at all. In fact, we give him the option of sitting inside the booth with me and DH OR getting into the little wooden chair...He prefers the chair.

The chair works very well for us.


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## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

Oh, originally you said it was "for safety" and not his choice. Must have been where I got confused.


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## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

We have the same expectations of our children at the dinner table at home as we do in restaurants. They are not allowed to get up and run around, or play with the syrup bottle, or throw food, etc. Since polite dinner behavior is the norm for our kids, going out to eat isn't a big deal.

Obviously we wouldn't go to a place where they couldn't get up and walk around while they waited for their food, or where the service is notoriously slow, or if the place was really busy. Snacks, crayons and quiet toys help pass the time until the food arrives.


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## Mrs.CEH3 (Aug 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
That prompts me to ask-since his biggest role model is dh, and dh has untreated adhd, could son become sort of adhd just by modeling after daddy?

No, but ADHD has a genetic component, i.e., if one parent has the condition, chances are good the child may have it, also.

If you truly suspect this is the case, you have a responsibility to him, and to yourself, to have him evaluated. Life with an ADHD child can be difficult, but there is help if you ask.

Good luck.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiflywaif* 
Wait: why do you have to strap him down if you're taking turns? Wouldn't one parent be there to watch him?

My 4-year-old would refuse to and be humiliated by the very idea of a highchair. But I know 4-year-olds vary.

My dd is nearly 4 and does not think highchairs are humiliating. I am not sure she even knows what "humiliating" means. She sees highchairs as what they are....chairs that are higher so that she can sit comfortably.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy* 

DS is NOT ready for a "sit down and wait for a waiter/waitress" come and take your order-type of restaurant. And DH doesn't believe in him having crayons and coloring book at the table.

He says "this is Dinner time, not play time".

What are your feelings on this?


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## Jmo780 (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy* 
Yes, 4-year olds vary. And it's not the high chair you are probably thinking of...(think Fisher Price) kind of like a tall wooden chair with an open back...

He is not humiliated at all. In fact, we give him the option of sitting inside the booth with me and DH OR getting into the little wooden chair...He prefers the chair.

The chair works very well for us.

I agree with you







My 6 y/o dd still tries to get into the chair







But her legs are too long etc...She sat in those wooden "highchairs" up until near 5 when she just couldnt fit aymore.

AND she still sits in the front of a grocery cart buckled in. Her choice, oh no!







:


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## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

He says "this is Dinner time, not play time".

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yooper* 
What are your feelings on this?

At home, is the child expected to sit at the table for 20 minutes before food is served? Or does he play (away from the table) until the food is put on the table?

I can see putting crayons away when the food arives, but it is unrealistic and unreasonable to expect a young child to sit patiently and wait for food. Shoot, DH and I have been known to play with children's placemats at restaurants, even if our kids are not with us!

It's perfectly OK to have slightly different rules in different situations - like coloring at the table at a restaurant but not at home.

I think this Dad needs to review age-appropriate expectations for his child.


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## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

My 4-year-old just doesn't want to do anything that smells of "being a baby." High chairs are for babies (she says). But she loves riding in the grocery cart so that's automatically "for big kids" LOL! Selective reasoning. I didn't put that idea in her head, she's just very independent.

The question about the high chair was because it was framed as "for safety" and then it was mentioned that the parents take turns at the buffet table anyway. Doesn't seem like you'd need to strap a kid in "for safety" if there was a parent there to watch him. But if it's a choice, that's a different matter.

I also don't understand the problem with bringing coloring materials or small quiet toys (see the original post). Sure, it's mealtime and not playtime, officially, but there is "downtime" in a restaurant and it's a little nuts to expect a kid to just do nothing. My daughter is 4, and we don't bring as much "stuff" as we used to because usually she'd rather sit and talk---but I always have Silly Putty or a workbook or crayons just in case.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

I might try a restricted diet and see if that helps at all. Especially if you think there might be a tendency towards ADD, any sugar or white carbs, artificial sweeteners and colors should be cut right out.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Alot of you are talking about having expectations of your children-which I think is a good idea-I have expectations of mine too. But having expectations doesnt cause the child to behave. I need to know what actually causes them to behave. You cant tell me that all your kids just want to please you so much that they behave because you expect them to. Like Dr. Phil says "Lets put some verbs in our sentances!"


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## HappyAgain (Mar 24, 2007)

When our children were small we always packed a bag to take to the restaurant. We always took a small toy or two, something to write with, a sippy cup and a warm washrag in a baggy. It helped, but honestly, I think most under fours just don't have the attention span to sit there and just wait for their food.

Could you try mom or dad taking them for a walk, even just to wash their hands, to break up some of the time waiting?

We mostly just took the kids to fast food/buffet types for "Practice" until they were older. And once they were older, we let them know our expectations ahead of time and that we would be leaving if we had to. Never had to leave..


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Regarding adhd-Here is what I dont want to happen: I dont want him getting assessed for adhd (however that works-anyone know exactly what they go through?) and then thinking that is "who he is." I was determined to find out what he was allergic to because i was around some people who thought milk allergys caused like 99% of behavioral problems and he ended up not being allergic to anything. (Exept like mold, etc) He milked the food allergy thing for months. He still says "I am not going to eat that because i am awergic to it." It sucks. He is using this as "who he is." I dont want to have "Aspen, my son, who is adhd." I am not sure if I am being clear, I dont want to be in denial, or not have the tools available to me to help him-but I dont want him to think he "is" the adhd...kwim?

My MIL is adimate that he is not adhd, (She is a speech pathologist and works with special needs kidss, and raised my very adhd hubby) because she had a hell of a time raising dh with adhd and she keeps telling me he isnt. I think honestly, I have more tools in my toolbox than MIL did and thats the reason for him not going completley apeshit like my dh did as a child.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yooper* 
What are your feelings on this?

I agree with him. We don't see sit down (enough) together as a family as it is...so on those rare occurances I want the 3 of us focused on each each other (outside of eating our meal of course).

Toys at the table will distract DS from this purpose. And if we don't introduce the practice, it's not another "issue" we have to tackle later on...

I realize toys at the table may work for other families...but not having them at the table for us, has been working pretty well.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I think my answer is to not take them to restaurants. LOL. Its too much stress-dd is 17m and constantly standss up in the high chair; ds monkeys around too much...and I am preggo with #3. Mabye it would be easier to just eat at home! And its totally more heaalthy!







Thats my answer and I am stickin to it.


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## MamaNosBest (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Alot of you are talking about having expectations of your children-which I think is a good idea-I have expectations of mine too. But having expectations doesnt cause the child to behave. I need to know what actually causes them to behave. You cant tell me that all your kids just want to please you so much that they behave because you expect them to. Like Dr. Phil says "Lets put some verbs in our sentances!"

Take books/toys with you. Make sure you're going at a time that he is hungry. Make sure he wants to go in the first place, and make sure he knows that if he disobeys and runs around, you're leaving -- then follow through. Do it again, and again, and again, as long many times as needed. If he reaches for the jelly packs, take them off the table, same with anything else he messes with at the table. Order things that don't take long to prepare. Engage him in conversation or a drawing contest. Make sure he has a packet or two of crackers while he waits.

For starters.


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## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

I see family meal at home vs. in a restaurant as 2 very different things. I would never have toys at the table at home (sometimes if it's just me and my daughter eating lunch or something, we'll have books though). At a restaurant, you can have toys at the table until the food comes, at least. I don't see that as distracting from "family time."

As far as verbs in sentences, I think you have to keep him engaged so he won't get bored and screw around (with the jelly or whatever). What you do to engage is different with different kids. Some kids just need lots of conversation (mine is exhausting with the blah blah blah, but it's great), some kids need to have an activity---coloring or matchbox cars---and some kids might like a bathroom trip or a walk to pass the time until the food arrives. The key is to swap an acceptable activity (card games, chatting, reading a book) for an unacceptable one (eating jelly packets because you're bored).

If the acting up is during the meal, that's more frustrating, but the same thing applies. Not eating? Not hungry, I guess. Then I'd get the food wrapped up and pull out my "acceptable activity."

As someone else says, having the same mealtime expectations at home and out helps enormously. We eat sitting down, at the table, don't screw around (too much), etc. And discussing the expectations before you leave is also key.


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## kaspirant (Apr 28, 2006)

Some things that work *if you can call it that* for us.

1. Go to the same restaurants often.
2. Find an amazing waiter/waitress there and ask for them by name every time you go.
3. Allow DC to befriend the waiter/waitress.
4. Order DC's food as soon as you sit down. <---this one is imperative IMO if you are sticking to no toys/crayons at the table.

Also choosing family friendly restaurants and ones that aren't too loud help. Sometimes the music and atmosphere of some places are sooo loud that it's a huge sensory overload for the kids. I know we had problems with DS at Ruby's Diner for this reason because there was just WAY too much going on.

We also take turns walking around and have as PP's said taken our food to go when DS just can't sit for whatever reason.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nd_deadhead* 
At home, is the child expected to sit at the table for 20 minutes before food is served? Or does he play (away from the table) until the food is put on the table?

I can see putting crayons away when the food arives, but it is unrealistic and unreasonable to expect a young child to sit patiently and wait for food

At home- DS is not expected to sit at the table for 20 minutes before food is served. I fix his plate and then he comes and eat. So he is playing away from the table until the food is put on the table.

Again, we still do not bring toys, coloring books and crayons with us to restaurants because we go to *Buffet style restaurants*. You don't "wait" at those type of restaurants. You grab your plate and fix it immediately.

So, DS has a ZERO wait time. He's hungry and he's ready to eat.

We eat and we go home.

The restaurants where you go and have someone take your order...we avoid because DS is not ready for those type yet.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiflywaif* 
The question about the high chair was because it was framed as "for safety" and then it was mentioned that the parents take turns at the buffet table anyway. Doesn't seem like you'd need to strap a kid in "for safety" if there was a parent there to watch him. But if it's a choice, that's a different matter.

A point to consider, when I say "safety"... here is what I mean, when you walk into a hustling and bustling restaurant with the wait staff carrying plates and dishes over their heads...we don't want DS in their way with the chance of them not seeing him and crashing into him...

It's our job to immediately get seated in our designated area so that DS is not in harm's way.

I guess my point is getting him "seated" immediately (whether in the booth with DH and I or the chair...his choice) is a safety concern.

I'm not sure where your thoughts are with my wording of "safety"


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## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

Of course he should be seated. But as you say, sitting in the booth would be just as safe. He shouldn't be walking around, but that doesn't translate to "he has to be strapped in."

Since you clarified that he'd rather be strapped in, I get it now. My kid would rather just sit in a chair or a booth, and she stays seated during the meal.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

I'll repeat what others have said. If your kids are not able to handle a restaurant then don't take them there.

There have been phases in DD's short 3 1/2 years were she was OK in a restaurant and then there have been phases where she is not. Why stress yourself (and the rest of the family)?

Most restaurants do take out. Even good ones! So you can have your favorite dish or the convenience of not cooking but the kids can do there thing at home.

Just like everything else, the "can't go out to eat" time of life with kids is relatively short. Soon your kids will be old enough to handle it.


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## LauraN (May 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Alot of you are talking about having expectations of your children-which I think is a good idea-I have expectations of mine too. But having expectations doesnt cause the child to behave. I need to know what actually causes them to behave. You cant tell me that all your kids just want to please you so much that they behave because you expect them to. Like Dr. Phil says "Lets put some verbs in our sentances!"

I think "causing children to behave" the first time is kind of the opposite of GD. The point is not to have a solution that always works in the moment--i mean, spanking always works, but doesn't get you the long-term solution you want.

The point of GD is instead to always be aware of what a child is capable of and expect that their desire to work with you will always come first but that developmental issues can get in the way of their ability to do it.

Which is why most people are suggesting baby steps and practice, practice, practice.

When DH and i were both working, we ate out a lot







: . Sometimes we would decide the kids were too tired or whatever to sit in a restaurant, so we would take the food home. Other times we would sit down, then find the kids were unable to stay, so we'd get our food to go and leave. Over time, the times the kids were able to sit at the table and play with the crayons until their food came (and we always ordered theirs first) increased.

But i agree with you that probably the best solution for you, right now, is to just eat at home.

Also, on the ADHD--my DH was never dx'd, but we both suspect he had/has it. i also want to avoid a dx for my son, b/c the last thing i want is for him to be "classified" at school. But in the meantime i'm taking dietary precautions very seriously. It is entirely possible for a child to be sensitive to certain foods (like dairy and wheat) without an actual allergy. And those sensitivities can cause behavioral issues.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I strap DD (3y4m) into a booster on a high chair because that way she isn't tempted to get down. She also is strapped in at home. She doesn't mind the straps, but if she isn't strapped she'll get down, come back, get down, come back...dinner often takes her an hour to eat as it is, so, no.

DD is usually pretty great in restaurants, but anything more than 15 minutes before the food comes is bad news. I actually bring snacks, and always books and toys. DD never has books and toys at the table at home and wouldn't ask--she knows it's a restaurant thing.


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## silver_bird123456 (Apr 30, 2007)

Is there any where you can go to eat out that it is OK to run around? In Briatin (when it's fine) you can go to a pub and eat in the garden. All the kids run around and play and come to eat when there hungry. Any where like that where you are?


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## oregongirlie (Mar 14, 2006)

transformed said:


> Regarding adhd-Here is what I dont want to happen: I dont want him getting assessed for adhd (however that works-anyone know exactly what they go through?) and then thinking that is "who he is." QUOTE]
> 
> I'm not sure how to respond.
> 
> ...


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## Mrs.CEH3 (Aug 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Regarding adhd-Here is what I dont want to happen: I dont want him getting assessed for adhd (however that works-anyone know exactly what they go through?) and then thinking that is "who he is." I was determined to find out what he was allergic to because i was around some people who thought milk allergys caused like 99% of behavioral problems and he ended up not being allergic to anything. (Exept like mold, etc) He milked the food allergy thing for months. He still says "I am not going to eat that because i am awergic to it." It sucks. He is using this as "who he is." I dont want to have "Aspen, my son, who is adhd." I am not sure if I am being clear, I dont want to be in denial, or not have the tools available to me to help him-but I dont want him to think he "is" the adhd...kwim?

My MIL is adimate that he is not adhd, (She is a speech pathologist and works with special needs kidss, and raised my very adhd hubby) because she had a hell of a time raising dh with adhd and she keeps telling me he isnt. I think honestly, I have more tools in my toolbox than MIL did and thats the reason for him not going completley apeshit like my dh did as a child.

How do I say this gently?

If _you_ don't allow the ADHD to define him, then he won't pick up on it and use it as a tool to manipulate you. Don't even talk about it around him - because right now you don't have a diagnosis, just a hunch. It's a condition with a biological basis; it is treatable; it is not an excuse to misbehave or a reason to tolerate inappropriate behavior. (Not saying you do this.)

In terms of getting a diagnosis, there are diagnostic tools, i.e., behavioral assessment instruments, employed by therapists and psychiatrists to give those professionals some idea of the child's behavior patterns. They also observe the child in action.

Do not allow your fear of the ADHD defining him to prevent you from helping your son. Start by talking to your pediatrician and go from there.

Good luck.


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## Mrs.CEH3 (Aug 14, 2006)

Quote:

Also note -- I said I HAVE it. I am inattentive, distractable, inconsistant, yes. I am also creative, kind, patient, easy going, nurturing... But ADHD is NOT what I AM. Watch the terminology "is ADHD". You don't call sick people depression, diabetes, autism, cancer...
Excellent, as is the rest of your post.


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

This thread is interesting - We love going out to eat! What we do - the kids are in high chairs - or if dd is in a booster seat the rule is "sit on your bottom", don't go when it is near nap time or bedtime, we give them something to do or eat constantly from the time we enter the restaurant until the time we leave. When we sit down on Friday night for Sabbath dinner, dd does not have toys or food, it is really hard for her to sit still through the prayers - we try to be really exciting with our singing and not take too long reading the prayers and we've been getting her really excited about "talking to God" so that she is starting to participate in her own way instead of just sitting listening to mommy and daddy talk. But if dh and I want to talk to each other over a meal, dd better have something interesting to do or forget it. Of course, she's not yet 4 - I'm not sure what my expectations will be at 4.


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## gibsonsmom (May 21, 2004)

We have been taking our DS out to eat since he was a newborn. I think you have to help kids understand what is expected in this situation. Granted sometimes DS is a holy terror in the restaurant and when that happens we leave. We also try to go to places which are kid friendly, or at least indestructible. We also clear the table of all sauces, salts, ketchup, etc. as soon as we sit down, especially those big sugar jars. Bring lots of activities and time it with when he usually gets hungry. Half the time he falls asleep on the way there so we make a bed from extra chairs and have date night. Restaurants are hard for little kids for sure, it takes prep and readiness to have a goo dfamily dinner out.

Good luck.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I would look at dietary and discipline strategies before assuming there are underlying behavior issues with your ds. It sounds like you aren't feeling confident in what to expect and how to help him succeed, which will make it very difficult to assess what part of the situation is 'His' and what is 'yours' if that makes sense.

Also, I would look at his diet--you mentioned he was eating the jelly packets and trying to drink the table syrup--I'm really wondering if he is reacting to the high fructose corn syrup in those items. When children are "acting up" particularly badly where food is concerned--and especially when you mention him grabbing for the hfcs items like that--I really would suspect that diet is playing a huge role in behavior.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
I would look at dietary and discipline strategies before assuming there are underlying behavior issues with your ds. It sounds like you aren't feeling confident in what to expect and how to help him succeed, which will make it very difficult to assess what part of the situation is 'His' and what is 'yours' if that makes sense.

Also, I would look at his diet--you mentioned he was eating the jelly packets and trying to drink the table syrup--I'm really wondering if he is reacting to the high fructose corn syrup in those items. When children are "acting up" particularly badly where food is concerned--and especially when you mention him grabbing for the hfcs items like that--I really would suspect that diet is playing a huge role in behavior.

Thank you. HFCS is the enemy! I have been lazy the last 2 months bc of terrible morning sickness and we have just been eating whatever crap we can find.

I am absolutley completley not confident in my parenting. I freeze up when I see him doing something wrong because my instinct is to yell, or hit (thats what I was taught.) I guess whats going on is I figure its better to do nothing than to hit-*just until I figure out what I am supposed to do!* I know that I know that I know that respecting my ds is my M.O. as a mom but I am failing him right now by mis-parenting by not doing anything.

I am going to make an effort to detox our diets, I just need some planning to stay that way because pretty soon we are throwing another baby in the mix!

You know, this is the HARDEST job on the planet-I never feel caught up, I never feel like I am serving a purpose (ha! Imagine that when I am doing the most important job in the world!) Being a mom is so hard! I had no idea!









jenny


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## Mrs.CEH3 (Aug 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
I would look at dietary and discipline strategies before assuming there are underlying behavior issues with your ds. It sounds like you aren't feeling confident in what to expect and how to help him succeed, which will make it very difficult to assess what part of the situation is 'His' and what is 'yours' if that makes sense.

Also, I would look at his diet--you mentioned he was eating the jelly packets and trying to drink the table syrup--I'm really wondering if he is reacting to the high fructose corn syrup in those items. When children are "acting up" particularly badly where food is concerned--and especially when you mention him grabbing for the hfcs items like that--I really would suspect that diet is playing a huge role in behavior.

Just a point of clarification...if when you say "underlying behavior issues" you are referring to ADHD...the condition itself is biological in basis. The undesirable behaviors are a manifestation of chemical imbalances in the brain.

And you're right about this - it sure wouldn't hurt to cut out the HFCS!


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

Thank you. HFCS is the enemy! I have been lazy the last 2 months bc of terrible morning sickness and we have just been eating whatever crap we can find.

I am absolutley completley not confident in my parenting. I freeze up when I see him doing something wrong because my instinct is to yell, or hit (thats what I was taught.) I guess whats going on is I figure its better to do nothing than to hit-*just until I figure out what I am supposed to do!* I know that I know that I know that respecting my ds is my M.O. as a mom but I am failing him right now by mis-parenting by not doing anything.

I am going to make an effort to detox our diets, I just need some planning to stay that way because pretty soon we are throwing another baby in the mix!

You know, this is the HARDEST job on the planet-I never feel caught up, I never feel like I am serving a purpose (ha! Imagine that when I am doing the most important job in the world!) Being a mom is so hard! I had no idea!
I really love what you are saying here--it feels like you are connecting deeper somehow in this post. I find that the more I work through my own issues, the easier it is to approach an issue with ds. Those overwhelmed-at-the-end-of-my-rope feelings can be addressed without actually going at the problem with ds--just by nurturing myself and building up my own self esteem. It also helps to mentally tell yourself that you will spend a certain amount of time--whatever you can tolerate--to simply go along with whatever your ds is doing (within safety reasons). Have a half hour together in which you try to say "yes" as much as possible, just to reconnect. Sometimes when you become sensitive to a certain issue with your child, it becomes all you can see in every interaction. It's very empowering to say 'For the next half hour, I'm just going to chill and have fun together'. Kind of giving yourself a hall pass from being the worrier/problem solver/trying to make everything the way you want it to be etc.

As far as the HFCS--yes it really makes some children climb the walls. If you are nauseated right now--I wouldn't put yourselves through the stress of eating out very often. It's difficult to avoid loads of sugar in restaurant food and you don't need the stress right now. I'd be inclined to buy convenience foods from the health food store to have on hand at home. You can find many items without allergenic ingredients, that are easy to prepare while you are feeling crummy. Your ds may also be reacting to the stress of you not feeling well.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Just to add to the restaurant tips:

NEVER let the wait stafftake your drink order and then leave. Order for the whole meal the first time and this saves 5-10 minutes of "empty" pre-meal time.

Bring cash in case you have to drop some and leave; just whisking the kids out and going home leaves a big impression, esp. for kids around the 4 yo age (I learned this with my nephew).

Other cool tips here: http://www.tastingmenu.com/archive/2...r/20051117.htm


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Just to add to the restaurant tips:
*
NEVER let the wait stafftake your drink order and then leave. Order for the whole meal the first time and this saves 5-10 minutes of "empty" pre-meal time.
*
Bring cash in case you have to drop some and leave; just whisking the kids out and going home leaves a big impression, esp. for kids around the 4 yo age (I learned this with my nephew).

Other cool tips here: http://www.tastingmenu.com/archive/2...r/20051117.htm

We take our 2 year old DD out a lot and we always discuss what she wants to eat in the car on the way there. That way we can order her food first so she can be eating while DH and I figure out what we want and order. Besides, DD takes forever to eat so it is not like she finishes first.

I would like to suggest as well that you *not* go to buffets or anywhere that you have to stand up and sit down. DD seems to respond more poorly to those situations and I think some of it is that she doesn't settle down easily after getting up. The sitdown, take your order, eat restaurants are the best for that because although she waits a few minutes longer, she knows she has to sit there until the meal is over. We also have family dinners at home where she is expected to sit there for a few minutes at least.

There are times that we can't go out at all for a few weeks but for the most part, DD is fantastic in restaurants. We took her out to a fancy steak restaurant last week (we go early so it isn't croweded) and her behavior was wonderful. We did order salad for her to eat right away, we brought a book and a stuffed animal and she seemed to sense how to behave. She didn't run around at all, yell or anything else. I know some of that is her personality but some of it is practice, practice, practice (at home and out). GL.


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