# help me stop yelling



## cravenab00

i so upset at myself right now. I have become the parent I have always said I wouldnt be. I just do not have any patience any more. I am yelling all the time. Lately my kids have just really gotten to me. I dont know what it is. But it seems like I am always yelling! They dont listen to me if I talk quietly, if I ask nicely etc...
I dont want to be a "controlling" parent like my dad was, (i still have horrible memories and a lot of resentment) but the only way that i can get my kids to do anything at all is by begging, pleading, coercing, threatening, yelling, and finally in the end i end up punishing. not physically, i mean like (you cant go to your friends house today) etc...

My kids fight horribly!!! I was an only child, so I dont "get" sibling rivalry thing. My husband says this is normal, but I dont think it is.

I get NO help with housework. I would think that my almost 8 and almost 5 year olds could be helping, but it doesnt fly. I swear they think I am torturing them because I ask them to pick up their toys, or put clothes in the hamper.

Now, my oldest has ADHD, but he is still very capable.

I have no clue where to start. HELP!!!


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## mamato3cherubs

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cravenab00*
I swear they think I am torturing them because I ask them to pick up their toys, or put clothes in the hamper.

I have no clue where to start. HELP!!!


sorry I cnat help but i think im subbing to this one as I could really use the same kind of help!


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## meowmix

I am watching this, too. I am stuck in the same rut and feel just, well, guilty all the time. Hope you get some good advice, soon.


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## aisraeltax

i so have this problem right now.

my 15 yo thinks my life's goal is to "find things for him to do."










rach


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## Magella

I have been where you are, yelling all the time and disappointed with myself because I was not the parent I set out to be. What helped me, finally, was to realize that the anger and the yelling were the result of my own unmet needs, my own feelings, my own thoughts/assumptions, my own desires. When I finally realized that, I found I could let go of a lot of things and/or address my unmet needs and as a result not feel so angry all the time and find resolutions before I got to the point of yelling. I was overwhelmed doing all the housework while the kids just made messes, too. It helped to realize that my anger and the yelling about that were the result of my unmet need for help. I couldn't do it all and relax and enjoy my kids. It was too much. Once I realized that, I could find ways to get the help I needed (by explaining my need to my children and asking for help, which they were suddenly more willing to give. Dh already does so much when he's home that it's only a problem when he's at work) and by deciding which things I could let go of and finding ways to be a little more organized. When my kids fight and I'm getting irritated, it's because the yelling hurts my ears and I need a reasonably peaceful home or I feel edgy. When they fight, it's because they need something too. So instead of just telling them to stop, we try to talk about everyone's needs. Make any sense? (I don't always remember to approach things this way, but when I do life always feels easier.)

Another big realization that was helpful was the realization that I can't control my kids. I could make them do things by punishing or nagging or threatening, but then they really weren't learning what I wanted them to learn and things would just get worse. And when I let go of that desire to control them, to make them do what I want and right now, then I found that I was finding other ways of handling most situations that led to more peaceful resolutions. We can work together as a family, we don't have to control each other (and we can't, anyway). Part of finding more peaceful resolutions was also taking the time to understand that under my kids' behaviors were _their_ own needs, feelings, thoughts, desires, etc. When I address those needs, etc., there is no power struggle-when the focus is on needs there just isn't a focus on making the other do what you want. At least in my experience-it just doesn't seem possible to really focus on each other's needs and still be engaged in a power struggle. If we're still struggling, someone still doesn't feel heard IME.

Some books that might help you: When Anger Hurts Your Kids, Giving the Love that Heals (is that the exact title, anyone?), Kids Parents and Power Struggles, How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk, and Non-Violent Communication (not strictly a parenting book, but does talk a lot about parenting and communicating with children). Peace Is Every Step is a good book, too, even though it's not a parenting book.

It's a journey. You can be the parent you want to be.


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## LF2000

:


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## Boobs

Me too.







:


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## mumm

:

When I've even asked my 5 year old "What can I do to help you listen so that we can all be safe in this space?' His reply is "Get up close and yell really loud!, then I listen."









This is hard work we are doing.


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## Magella

Mamas, this is really hard work.

I would like to gently suggest a project for you, if you're open to trying it. Stop for a few moments, listen to your thoughts and feelings without judging whether they are bad or good-they're simply thoughts and feelings. You may feel comfortable trying it in a moment of conflict, you may feel more comfortable trying it in a calm moment. What do you need? It's really hard to be a mom, and modern moms don't have nearly enough help and support and tend to have a lot of unmet needs. So what do you need? What do you feel? What are you thinking? How does your body feel? Are memories coming up? Memories of what? (I'm not asking anyone to share here, this is a personal thing.)

This is how I started moving on from yelling, with this baby step of awareness. Yelling is about me, not about my kids or their behavior. Awareness of your own thoughts and feelings is important. We all tend to have automatic thoughts and emotional reactions that we aren't aware of simply because they have become so automatic. These automatic thoughts and feelings have a huge impact on how we respond to our children and to everyday events.

When I can listen to myself, hear my own needs, I can then request that those needs be met or do something to ensure they are met. When I'm aware of my own needs and feelings, then I am more free to listen to my children's needs and to respond to my children more gently.


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## mamalita

Sledge:









And







: (for me).


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## mamato3cherubs

: wow, some really good things to think about. I think I may have to come back and read these posts a few more times. hmm now how to get through to dh about it all.

Thanks ladies


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## sally Z

is there a hit the nail on the head smilie? I really feel it is my own anger that is making me react to dd the way i do. I copied the reply and am saving it to re-read as i need it. thanks sledg


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## iamama

[I get NO help with housework. I would think that my almost 8 and almost 5 year olds could be helping, but it doesnt fly. I swear they think I am torturing them because I ask them to pick up their toys, or put clothes in the hamper.

Now, my oldest has ADHD, but he is still very capable.

I have no clue where to start. HELP!!]

I may be able to help a little here. I started establishing a routine ala the Flylady. It has really helped bc some of the stress is simply the house is not tidy and the cleaning was overwhelming. Its been much easier to get throught the day once I incorperated more routine with the daily task. I also have a friend IRL who is my buddy in creating routine in both our lives. We are definetly doing major baby steps but once I decided that I could make some small changes, like the clean sink (flylady thing), I haven't looked back and I haven't ever been faced with a huge pile of dishes.

But when the kids know what is expected by them, for example dressed with all dirty clothes in the hamper before breakfast or toys picked up before bath etc. Less yelling. My dd hair can become a nightmare but now I just say "oh your hair!" and she runs for the brush. Find your biggest offenders and make it part of your routine and they will help and you won't have to yell. Except to say woo-hoo this room is clean!

I HTH you search for the flylady stuff there is a website and all. I perfer the book Sink Reflections

ITA with Sledg too! Great post!


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## ekblad9

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## DanAbimytwomiracle

I found myself doing the same thing. Then I stopped eating dairy and realized I had much more aptience than before. I would consider food sensitivity - many of us know it can affect our kids, but don't always look at our own diet.

As for kids not listening, I find that if I have to say/request something more than twice it's b/c I'm not asking properly or not following through. My kids are younger, but the same concept - get on their level, make eye contact, ensure you have their attention (tv/music is off, book is down, etc.) and ask politely but firmly.

Phrase things as statements rather than questions "I need you [or: You need] to pick up the toys on the floor in your room and put them away in the toy box" is a more direct statement and gives an exact expectation than "Can you please clean your room?"


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## Linda in OZ

reading and learning


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## Jane's4

:

As far as getting the kids to help around the house, I think it helps to start small, with a few, simple responsibilities, i.e. dirty clothes in hamper, bed made, shoes put in closet--or things of that nature. Things that are quick and are either done or not done (no argument over what exactly defines a "clean" room, etc.) When my now 6yo was 3, I gave him 3 "responsibilities", and I have gradually added more. My girls (3yo) put their clothes in the hamper, dishes in the sink, and put coats and shoes in the closet. We call these their "jobs" and they seem to like it. In addition, we all do a "10-minute-tidy" each night before dinner. Usually we will all work on one room together, and we put music on, and end up having a pretty good time. I feel like this is creates a positive energy around working together and reinforces the good feeling of a family helping each other out. I have also found that, at the end of a long day, when the kids are getting on my and each other's nerves, it really turns all of our attitudes around when we stop and have these 10 minutes of cooperation. Sometimes, when the kids are fighting and I'm about to lose it, I will announce 10-minute-tidy early, and maybe because it gives everyone a chance to do something constructive and helpful, it really stops that downward spiral.

Sledg, your insightful posts brought tears to my eyes. How true...


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## RedWine

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## mommaJ

I am learning so much.....thank you!

My DD seems to "like" me yelling. I know that sounds wierd. Clearly we have set up some sort of dysfunctional dynamic here and I just don't know how to break it. When I ask her calmly to do (or NOT to do) something she may or may not do it. If she doesn't do it, I ask her again and maybe again, and then, inevitably, I raise my voice. She doesn't seem frightened or upset by the yelling, she just knows I'm serious and does what I have asked. Is this a problem with consistency maybe?

I think I answered my own question.









Now I just have to figure out how to be consistent while still listening to/honoring DD's requests after I have made my own.


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## bobica

subbing


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## Magella

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommaJ*
Now I just have to figure out how to be consistent while still listening to/honoring DD's requests after I have made my own.

I think part of the trick to this is learning what your needs are and when you can be flexible and still have your needs met. Personally, I have a tendency to think about my kids' needs first and ignore my own, but when I do ignore my needs then I am much more likely to yell and much less aware of and able to listen to my kids' needs/feelings. So if I really feel stressed and I need some help from my kids in order to get the house reasonably cleaned and get food on the table, then I need to acknowledge that. When I realize that I need this, then I'm more clear on what I would like my kids to do-and oddly I'm also more flexible and creative. Once I know I really need some help, I'm able to say "so, you really don't want to empty the dishwasher. I still need help. How about washing the table or skating on these wet towels on the floor (a fun way to mop)?"

Sometimes, what I need for them to do just isn't negotiable. This is when I actually use the words "it's non-negotiable." When I say this, they know I'm not going to change my mind. "It's time to go pick up your sister at school." "But I don't want to!" "It's non-negiotiable. We are going to pick up your sister."

Timers are also great. "We are leaving soon. You can play for 10 more minutes, I'll set the timer. When the timer beeps it's time to put your shoes on." This helps because we set the expectations and "terms" ahead of time, which usually (not always, of course) prevents arguments later when I really need/want them to do what I've requested. With chores it might be "I need help. I'd like you to empty the dishwasher" "But I'm playing, I don't want to." "You don't want to stop playing right now. I still need help soon because I need the dishwasher empty so I can clear the sink and counter for cooking dinner, but I could wait while you play for another 15 minutes." "20 minutes?" "Okay, 20 minutes. I'm setting the timer. When it beeps it will be time for you to help me with the dishwasher."


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## OneCatholicMommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sledg*







Mamas, this is really hard work.

I would like to gently suggest a project for you, if you're open to trying it. Stop for a few moments, listen to your thoughts and feelings without judging whether they are bad or good-they're simply thoughts and feelings. You may feel comfortable trying it in a moment of conflict, you may feel more comfortable trying it in a calm moment. What do you need? It's really hard to be a mom, and modern moms don't have nearly enough help and support and tend to have a lot of unmet needs. So what do you need? What do you feel? What are you thinking? How does your body feel? Are memories coming up? Memories of what? (I'm not asking anyone to share here, this is a personal thing.)

This is how I started moving on from yelling, with this baby step of awareness. Yelling is about me, not about my kids or their behavior. Awareness of your own thoughts and feelings is important. We all tend to have automatic thoughts and emotional reactions that we aren't aware of simply because they have become so automatic. These automatic thoughts and feelings have a huge impact on how we respond to our children and to everyday events.

When I can listen to myself, hear my own needs, I can then request that those needs be met or do something to ensure they are met. When I'm aware of my own needs and feelings, then I am more free to listen to my children's needs and to respond to my children more gently.

Good thoughts. Thank you.


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## 2tolove

a lot of great suggestions!!







:


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## hellyaellen

i sure need this one.

i constantly tell dd "we yell a lot but we all love each other" i think she gets it but we all need to work on our inside voices in this house.

sometimes i make everybody whisper. it definately helps release tensions.


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## ilex

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## mommaJ

Sledg-

Thank you for all the great suggestions. I really like the timer idea.


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## newcastlemama

Sledg-that is great advice..I noticed I start getting louder and louder when I am worn out and need quiet!!! I like the part about not judging my feelings..I do that a lot. I start saying that I am a horrible mom and I cannot even handle a 16 month old...what it really is--I am exhausted and my husband won't be home for hours!
I have the hardest time when my husband works 6 long days, like this week, and the baby was sick too.


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## bobica

Sledg, you put it into words so well!!! We have also found the timer to help. we started it b/c she would decide she was hungry & get bonkers wanting to eat NOW! so it was a natural extension of using the timer for cooking. I also find i yell more when i'm worn out. i have had a nasty cold for days & days & no patience along with it. it's not dd's fault, but i do tend to take it out on her in my yelling. thank you for helping me articulate what is going on in my head!!!


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## Hibou

Thank you sledg!

Since reading this thread about a week ago, I have been stopping myself when I start feeling tense or when things start escalating and asking "What do I/ds/dh need right now?" It has helped us all immensely. I have also talked to dh about trying this, and he has seemed more patient lately. This is probably one of the most effective suggestions that I have ever heard. Thank you so much for your wisdom!


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## UUMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sally Z*
is there a hit the nail on the head smilie? I really feel it is my own anger that is making me react to dd the way i do. I copied the reply and am saving it to re-read as i need it. thanks sledg


That's so true for me. How we feel inside affects everything. Getting the anger under control is so important.

It's one reason I am always posting about connecting --having fun together and joking around. Closeness and connectedness comes first, and then the team work can follow. It's hard to get people to work together when they don't feel like they are part of a team, or if they are always feeling upset about things.

When I play Scrabble, or watch a movie, or share some hummus (we both love it) with my 16 yr old, for instance, we are together in a way that's simply pleasant and not about whether he can take the car whenever he wats...lol. Relationships have to have a pleasure factor, not only be about arguing and guidance. We can chat about interesting things, politics, books we've read, movies we hate or love etc without having to hash something out all the time. Later, when I need him, I think he responds better because we already have a relationship history, iykwim. He's emotionally intense, so he needs that connection.

And remember, nobody really enjoys cleaning up and doing stuff (well, some people might, but mostly it's not fun to put clothes away, wash floors etc). Kids esp aren't so interested as they aren't as affected by not having clean underwear.









I find, fi, that we can get a lot of clothes folded while we are watching a movie together. We sort as we fold, and when it's over, unless everyone is asleep, I just hand small piles of clothing to the child it belongs to. My 6 yr old likes to put one set of items away at a time. So I'll had her all her underwear and then she will come back for her shirts etc. This way it doesn't feel so overwhleming. My teen puts away the towels, because he's the tallest and the linen closet is hiiiigh up. It's broken up into small, manegable chunks, which is how I function best--my dh is a tackle- the- big- job person, but the kids have inherited my break-it-down personality.

It's amazing how much can be put away with 6 people putting stuff away together at the same time. Same with clearning groceries out of the car, if everyone strong enough takes two, it's one trip. For smaller things like unloading the dishwasher, this morning I made hot chocolate and as it was cooling, the kids unloaded the dishwasher. They had to get the mugs out anyway, so as I was wiping the counter, I told them it was a good time to unload and they did and I asked them to hand me the heavier items that need to be stored in more tucked-away, higher places. No biggie. Unloading is one of their agreed upon tasks, but it made sense to remind them at this point, rather than call them away from another acitvity later. Does it bother me they need reminding? Not at all. It would be a total waste of my energy to get angry about that.


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## MotheringHeart

Oh my goodness. I was just talking my DH tonight about how I feel like I am not a great Mommy to my dearest Elie. She is almost four and while she understands a great deal more than her age belies (I think), she is still four and I get impatient with her too quickly. I have been yelling a lot lately also and reading through this thread I just want to cry. I am definitely in need of a way to break my bad parenting habits and need some good ways to take a breath before I respond to a situation. I know how to be a good mommy and sometimes I feel like I am two different moms; a kind patient one when we are out and an impatient monster when we are home. I just desperately want to be the best mom I can be so that my beebees can grow up to be strong, emotionally healthy, independent, capable of loving, knowing they are loved kind of people.

Olivia


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## peacefulmom

motheringheart i feel like you wrote for me o am learning alot here too...i have felt like such a bad mom...thanks ....


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## mamachandi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mumm*







:

When I've even asked my 5 year old "What can I do to help you listen so that we can all be safe in this space?' His reply is "Get up close and yell really loud!, then I listen."









This is hard work we are doing.


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## Proudly AP

subscribing.

i am so glad to have access to this info/these insights from mamas who've btdt.

i am feeling terrible lately, too. this is a busy and often stressful time of year with so much to do, and i am not really meeting *anyone's* needs very well at the moment.


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## acystay

I'm so glad that I came across this thread the other day. I too feel that I'm loosing control and forgetting that my children and simply, children! I am so trying to break the way that I was raised by not yelling at my children and there I days where I feel I am failing miserablely. I've been trying to figure what really is the issue and I keep coming back to that I do feel overwhelmed. I need to feel that things are in order and that I've got someone there helping me and that dh is backing me more w/ helping pick up things. DH is gone 12 hours a day and I have 3 very young children.

So, now I'm trying to get things to have a rhythm. We need this every day. Just to have times when we pick up toys and clean up the kitchen or bathrooms. The other day, I gave Grace an wet wipe and told her to clean her bathroom (not toilet). I just had to give her the right to do this and let go that if it wasn't perfect at least I got the help! We pick up before bed at night, then in the am after breakfast we pick up the morning toys, and then do something. Granted this isn't happening perfect every day, but when I do keep it up, I feel better knowing that the house is in some order.

Another thing that I realized was feeling overwhelmed w/ all 3. My oldest will be 4 in Jan and my youngest is 7 mos. I am mentally and physically exhausted most days. On the weekend, I would just love to hide all day, but in reality that can't happen. Dh has watched the 2 boys (2 and 7 mos) on Saturday while I take just Grace out. I was originally doing it for her, but I've found just sitting w/ her and sharing ideas w/ her has been so relaxing. I love it and so does she. It's given her that special time she needed and it makes her more agreeable the rest of the week.

And, I honestly couldn't make it would it not be for a bath! Not a bath for me, although I do admit that would be great it's a bath for them







they can have some relaxing time and I can't at least not have all 3 hanging on me and sit and veg in the bathroom w/ them. I'll read a book or something esle.

After reading this post, I was reminded as well of the natural child project website and dug around there and found this. It's helped me.

http://www.naturalchild.com/jan_hunt...ernatives.html


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## loon13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MotheringHeart*
I know how to be a good mommy and sometimes I feel like I am two different moms; a kind patient one when we are out and an impatient monster when we are home.

Olivia,

This is so me.







:







:

Why can I be so much more calm because I'm "in front of other people"? Not that I want to be the screaming mommy in public anymore than I want to be a screaming mom at home. But I hate that I'm such a hypocrite and phony to my daughter that I can keep it together to "keep up an appearance" for others but not for her.

I don't want to suppress my feelings and seem to my daughter that I'm this perfect person who always has it in control. Because I am most definitely not and I don't want to give her some impossible standard to live up to.

I want to show my daughter that I am human. I make mistakes. I always apologize if I have lost my temper. But I hate to lose my temper in the first place. It is so hard to to be patient sometimes....


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## loon13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *acystay*
After reading this post, I was reminded as well of the natural child project website and dug around there and found this. It's helped me.

http://www.naturalchild.com/jan_hunt...ernatives.html

Thank you for reminding me about that article, acystay.









I love The Natural Child Project Website, but haven't looked at in awhile. I think I need to visit it more often....


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## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loon13*
Olivia,

This is so me.







:







:

Why can I be so much more calm because I'm "in front of other people"? Not that I want to be the screaming mommy in public anymore than I want to be a screaming mom at home. But I hate that I'm such a hypocrite and phony to my daughter that I can keep it together to "keep up an appearance" for others but not for her.

I don't want to suppress my feelings and seem to my daughter that I'm this perfect person who always has it in control. Because I am most definitely not and I don't want to give her some impossible standard to live up to.

I want to show my daughter that I am human. I make mistakes. I always apologize if I have lost my temper. But I hate to lose my temper in the first place. It is so hard to to be patient sometimes....

Loon,

I think that the "in front of other people" is mostly due to conditional upbringing and is a *conditioned* response. We need to unlearn those habits of automatically associating "what other's think" from the choice that *we* want to consciously make. I try to be mindful, in an effort to distinguish 'what others think about what *doesn't* impact them', from 'what others think about what *does* impact them'. Most of us were conditioned to do what others told us (compliance, conformity), regardless of whether our actions impacted others, and regardless of whether another's desire was consistent with our own even when it didn't impact them (ie. limited self-determination). If we discern that our (potential or actual) action *does* impact another, what they think is important. If we discern that our action *does not* impact another, what they think is less (or not) important. Perhaps, focusing on the question of 'does my action impact him/her?', we could choose our actions with regard more consciously and purposefully.

I agree about being authentic to my feelings. We have just touched on this at the end of the 'manners thread'. Owning our feelings and our reactions is empowering and accountable. And I have plenty of opportunities to have emotional experiences living with a young child.









So, I don't worry too much about our son maybe thinking that he needs to be perfect, because I do work to own my feelings AND share them, BUT not project responsibility for them. It is tricky to not project ownership of them though. And I am learning all the time. Certainly, our son doesn't think I am unemotional.







Frankly, at times he is more emotionally aware and open than I. But, I don't scorn myself (much anymore







: ) for learning emotional authenticity and emotional accountability. Neither do I judge our son for learning through trial and error (about anything). I believe *not judging* is how he will most understand not to self-damn for his human fallibility. Unfortunately, I am still needing to unlearn that myself from childhood. It is so much easier not to judge our child than not to judge myself.

Pat


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## loon13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Loon,

I think that the "in front of other people" is mostly due to conditional upbringing and is a *conditioned* response. We need to unlearn those habits of automatically associating "what other's think" from the choice that *we* want to consciously make.

It is very much a response from my conditional upbringing, but sooooooooo hard to unlearn. I am trying, though!

My parents still manipulate me with guilt to do certain things. The underlying theme being "well if you don't do this [call so and so for their birthday, visit, send a gift] they will think we raised a horrible person."

<sigh>









Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
It is so much easier not to judge our child than not to judge myself.

Pat









:

I find loving her unconditionally is easy. Patience is difficult sometimes but part of the whole unconditional loving, I think.

Loving myself....whole 'nother ballgame. Sometimes I just want to smack that darn critical voice.

Thanks for all your insight, Pat!


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## MotheringHeart

I read this whole thread last night and went to bed formulating a plan for how to be more in control of my temper and impatience. Like, Acystay, I have three small kiddos (almost 4, just 2 and 7 mths) and I realized after reading all the posts, that I was feeling very overwhelmed and allowing myself to get pushed over the edge and be impatient about nearly everything *wrong* with my children's behavior. I also realized that the things I was veiwing as wrong might be better handled by patience and might not be *wrong* after all. And do you know what? Today was a much better day. I yelled a lot less, there was much less disobeying and bad behavior. And when I felt like I was going to loose it unnecessarily, I took a deep breath and rubbed the small star of david I put in my pocket this morning.

As mommies the jobs that we have are the hardest in the world and I think we have to remember that it is a constant give and take. To expect perfection of ourselves is unrealistic and is something we will fail at every time. We will all loose our patience, yell and loose sight of the mommies we hope to be. However, if we continue to take a step back and reevaluate to change what we are doing wrong, we are on the right track to becoming better mommies.

I want to be the good mommy all the time, not just in public. And I can be that good mommy, I know how. I just have to prioritize my children and their well being. My being impatient gains me nothing, whereas being patient and challenging myself to learn and grow gains me everything.

Olivia


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## WuWei

"With our thoughts we change the world"~ Buddha


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## Proudly AP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MotheringHeart*
As mommies the jobs that we have are the hardest in the world and I think we have to remember that it is a constant give and take. To expect perfection of ourselves is unrealistic and is something we will fail at every time. We will all loose our patience, yell and loose sight of the mommies we hope to be. However, if we continue to take a step back and reevaluate to change what we are doing wrong, we are on the right track to becoming better mommies.

*I want to be the good mommy all the time, not just in public. And I can be that good mommy, I know how. I just have to prioritize my children and their well being. My being impatient gains me nothing, whereas being patient and challenging myself to learn and grow gains me everything.*

Olivia

how true. my dh is a WFHD. the job of parenting (and parenting well!) must be the toughest going.

the part I bolded is what often escapes me until I am lying in bed at night, beating myself up over everything I did wrong during the day.


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## Magella

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loon13*
Why can I be so much more calm because I'm "in front of other people"? Not that I want to be the screaming mommy in public anymore than I want to be a screaming mom at home.

I found that I was a better, calmer, more compassionate and patient mom out but yelling at home. Why? Because at home I was too busy beating myself up for making mistakes (yelling) and hating myself as a parent to be compassionate. When we were out I set my self-hatred aside to focus on my daughter. _ETA_ that it's not so much that when I was out I could set aside my self-criticism and shame and feelings that I was a horrible mom, but that when we were out I was wanting to prove I wasn't a horrible mom or prove that my children's behavior was just them being kids-a sort of flipping of the bird to anyone who might be judging me or my kids- or that when we were out I was receiving some empathy and compassion from someone else which flowed through me and right out to my kids.

You can't give compassion and empathy when you haven't been filled up with it yourself. To take care of your children you have to take care of yourself. _ETA_ also that ideally I wouldn't look at my child yelling and say "she's failing, she's a bad kid, she needs to try harder"-I would say to myself "she's feeling something and needs some empathy so she can handle this more effectively". I wouldn't say to my child "you're so bad, you shouldn't yell, you're making a mistake again, what's wrong with you?"-I'd say "you're feeling angry, it's hard to share" and give her a hug and help her find another way of meeting her needs. Like my children, if I keep hearing (if only from myself) that I'm doing something wrong and need to change and that I'm failing at being perfect (and somehow hear that I should be as close to perfect as possible, or at least better than I am because something is wrong with me as I am) then I feel awful and I don't grow-I just struggle. If I instead say "I'm feeling angry and scared (or whatever), I want this and I need that, and yelling hurts and I don't like it-and it's not meeting anyone's needs" then other ways of interacting just naturally become apparent. This is who I am, yelling is something I sometimes have done and it doesn't feel good or help anyone, I can't change what I have already done, I'm learning other ways of interacting with my kids-I'm not a bad mom. I'm me, I love my kids, I'm doing the best I can and that's good enough. No, I don't like everything I've done but I have learned from all of it and so have my kids-and that is a gift.


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## Linda in OZ

I got my tongue pierced last week and with a mouth full of swollen tongue yelling just results in laughter, I was mortified by my son laughing at me until I realised how Imust sound, and I think I learnt a very good lesson in that if I recorded myself while "going off" I would probably be ashamed of how actually sounded to my children. Food fOr THOUGHT


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## jrayn

I was yelling quite a bit to my dp mostly but sometimes my daughter which I realized was really disprespectful, all she ususally does that gets to me is be curious and very determined to continue being curious despite my redirection. I must lead by example to get my dp to stop yelling so I am working very hard at it and for the past week I don't recall raising my voice too much at all, mainly because I am stopping, realizing what I am feeling and telling myself, I can get my point across much more effectively with a calm voice, as I know when dp starts yelling at me, I am more likely to fight back then to comply or agree. One trick I read about somewhere for helping control yourself before you loose your temper (if you can remember to do it) is to put your pointer finger onto your thumb, both hands, take deep breaths, close your eyes if you can, and wait until you feel the pulse in your fingers, once you feel the pulse you should be able to think more clearly.


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## mamabeca

I find I yell when:

I don't get what I need from my dh
My dd is zoned from watching tv and doesn't respond to my requests for help, lunch, etc.
I am tired, hungry, thirsty or otherwise out of sorts
I have had enough parenting and need a time out.

In general, I am patient and I listen respectfully to my dd and her needs. My ds is too little so far to have any but the most basic needs, really, so he's kinda easy, while dd is older and has many needs that go beyond nursey and hold me and I'm wet. _I need more crafting time, or I wanted to have a playdate or I was really hoping to watch this movie and now you're saying I can only watch 30 minutes of TV???_ those are way harder for me.

When I am not getting what *I* need from dh (usually sex/cuddle time), I am just freaking irritable. No question. I try hard to keep that from being a problem between me and dd, but tbh, there are times my fuse is short because I am not happy with my life. She may not be following directions or whatever, but it's not earth shaking... just annoying but I sometimes don't have the patience for annoying.

Tough to get it all worked out and live in *real* balance, but I find that if I can pinpoint my need, it's usually pretty simple to get _SOME_ of it so that I can re-enter the fray with some extra enthusiasm and energy, rather than be a drag by being impatient and sniping at my family.








SUCH hard stuff.

Thanks to sledg for all her wisdom...


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## wahoowhippets

I too am struggling with the patience issue with my kids. They fight all the time and it gets so frustrating. Thanks for all the posts, hopefully now the yelling and frustration will decrease.


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## goosysmom

i am happy i came upon this thread as i have been struggling to with patience and yelling....more so at my step daughter and it's hard bc i wanna be a good step mom but her mother is teaching her to be uncaring, uncompassionate, manipulative little girl and it's just wrong and DH trys to talk to his ex about it but keeps crackin his head open against the brick wall...

her mom sets NO limits or expectations on her and lets her do as she pleases (she'll be 6 on the 24th) and has told her that when someone gives her something at her birthday party this weekend that if she hates it or thinks bad of it it's ok to tell them that and she only need to listen to her mom and dad and no other adults in her life..School has been a nightmare this year...

i try not to yell...i try to keep it in....i try i try i try and then i explode....not horribly but i yell and try to tell her it's not right or things aren't right and how hard it must be to go from mom's house that's no rules, do as you please to dad's house where there are rules (not many but there are) and that i grew up doing it so i know how it feels...

she told us the other day that she hates her sister and wishes she would go away and isn't nice to her at all....

DH and I are just flabbergasted by it all and are at a loss as to where to go from here...Hopefully I can find some ans here....I just hate to see a 6 year old who doesn't care about anything bc that's what she's been taught elsewhere....who doesn't care if you say no, we can't do this tonight, maybe another time bc......of this or that....

Ok, it's late, I've rambled more than I should've....

Thanks for listening....

I wanna be in sunny florida with you wahoo.....i miss living there.....


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## bleurae

:


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## lizardalinat

I have had the most awful 2 days because of the way I am responding to my 5 yr.old dd. I am sure she is feeling left out because of her 7 month old sister. My patience has been so thin and everyday becomes thinner. I forget that everyday needs to be a new day for both of us. Anyway, tonight I realized that "I" really need to work on my patience and after talking to my mom also, she said, "well, there is only one thing left for you to do because you have yelled, punished, ignored and none of that works, so you need to be patient". I remember a time in my life when i was so patient, what happened? So tomorrow will be a day of patience for me. like Olivia said in her last sentence. Thanks for this thread


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## loon13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sledg*
I found that I was a better, calmer, more compassionate and patient mom out but yelling at home. Why? Because at home I was too busy beating myself up for making mistakes (yelling) and hating myself as a parent to be compassionate. When we were out I set my self-hatred aside to focus on my daughter. _ETA_ that it's not so much that when I was out I could set aside my self-criticism and shame and feelings that I was a horrible mom, but that when we were out I was wanting to prove I wasn't a horrible mom or prove that my children's behavior was just them being kids-a sort of flipping of the bird to anyone who might be judging me or my kids- or that when we were out I was receiving some empathy and compassion from someone else which flowed through me and right out to my kids.

You can't give compassion and empathy when you haven't been filled up with it yourself.

























Exactly, sledg. That is it exactly.

I find sometimes for my sanity, I need to get out because I have more patience with dd. I'm also more focused on her b/c I have to be. We're not in the safety of our own home, etc.
The hard part is that dd is sensitive and while she also likes to go out and see friends, it's a fine line before she's overwhelmed. She's better at me at saying "Let's stay home today, mommy."

To all: So when you haven't gotten the compassion and empathy you need, how do you get it? When you haven't gotten the patience either, how do you get it?

It's eerie how I find that when I yell, it's in the same exasperated way my mom used to yell at ME. And I think, gosh, now I understand how she was feeling on her end, and I understand how dd is feeling on her end, because now I've been in both positions. But .........now what???

I don't want to sit and play the blame game by saying "my parents could have done this better." I accept that they did the best they can, but now how do I make up for what is lacking?

Pondering....

Loon


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## WuWei

Patience only seems to be an issue for me when I want to be doing something else. When I am mindfully in the present, wanting to be doing what I am doing, I am patient. I know this seems so obvious.







But, so hard to recognize. They say that 'happiness isn't having what you want, but wanting what you have'. So, the key to both patience and happiness seems to be 'to want to be doing what one is doing'.

I am sure there is a catch in there somewhere, since it is so hard to do.







I probably has something to do with trying to do too much......Actually, I heard that multi-tasking is the opposite of living mindfully in the present. Hmmmm.....

Pat


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## angela&avery

I just wanted to subscribe. I yell too. I have been better, I have been working on this for months now. I have a diary and try to write out my feelings in it. It is still so hard and I still yell.

In the am's when we have to get out the door for preschool was the worst time, I changed the routine so that ds has more time to get himself ready and I dont turn on the tv during the mornings we need to get out of the house..... no more yelling.

I think the hardest time for me is when Im tired from the morning and I have chores to do, so I need dd to nap and she wont nap, but she is tired and cranky (she is a beastly one without sleep), then I have ds who wants this and that and this and that..... then they will actually go play so I will saddle up to the sink or maybe the computer for a minute and someone will fall or take something away from someone else and all He** breaks loose..







..those are the hardest days. I work two days a week, and use the other three during the week to catch up and get dishes done, sweep, vacuum, pick up and all that stuff... and I do most of that when dd naps, so when she doesnt it seems like the house gets messier and messier (I like SOME order) and I go nuts.









I have definately been working on it though. I have a really hard time stopping myself when I well up to yell. Im like two people. I know its happening and I shouldnt be doing it, but I cant stop. I might cut it short.... I might say less, but I still do it.....I dont know why. I hate it..... My dad was a yeller and I was so sensitive it scared the crap out of me, yet I still do it to my kids. I dont say horrible things to them, but I do threaten.... which just doesnt help.

some days are really great... Im calm, I explain, I give lots of choices adn I dont yell... other days....... will be ok, then i lose it.... then i just feel horrible......


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## Magella

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loon13*
To all: So when you haven't gotten the compassion and empathy you need, how do you get it? When you haven't gotten the patience either, how do you get it?

I'm learning that when I'm home alone and I'm needing compassion and empathy (and no one to turn to via phone or whatever at the moment for whatever reason, or those I can talk to don't meet those needs for whatever reason) that I can give compassion and empathy to myself. I can pause, listen to myself (my own feelings and needs), and be gentle with myself. I can recognize my feelings and needs, recognize the real-ness and validity of those feelings and needs, and give myself the empathy and make the effort to meet my needs as best I can at the moment. Sometimes I can't really meet the need at the time for some reason, but I can give myself the empathy and plan to meet that need later. Later on, I may or may not then need to seek some empathy from my dh or a friend or my sister.

The patience I need flows out from the compassion and empathy I give myself and my children. When I am gentle with myself, when I take care of myself, when I see my own feelings and needs as valid and just as important as my children's feelings and needs, then I have patience. And not only do I have patience, but also the compassion, empathy and gentleness that my kids need and that allows me to parent without yelling.

It's as if compassion and empathy are the gifts which keep on giving. Give it to yourself, and you then give it to your kids or someone else, who in turn give it to someone else. And you definitely deserve those gifts.


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## Magella

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angela&avery*
Im like two people. I know its happening and I shouldnt be doing it, but I cant stop. I might cut it short.... I might say less, but I still do it.....I dont know why. I hate it.....

"Thou shalt not 'should' on thyself." (quote of un-remembered origin from someone I once knew) "Should" is a violent word. "Should" is a word that implies that there is something fundamentally wrong with you. "Should" is very hard to overcome, it beats you down. "Should" creates struggle and shame, it ignores the feelings and needs of the person and focuses only on the behavior. It's very hard to grow under the shame of "should".

Understanding, however, leads to compassion and the ability to grow. There is so much more to a person than the behavior, and sometimes willpower to simply stop the behavior isn't enough-you have to meet the needs and listen to the feelings beneath the behavior. It is helpful to recognize, as you have, that something you have done hurts your heart and that you don't want to do it. It's helpful to then you stop and listen so you can understand why you do it-this can be difficult and very complicated, but it's the only way to really solve the problem. So why do you yell-the deeper reasons, not because your kids did or didn't do something but _your_ thoughts, feelings and needs? At some times for me it's because I'm overwhelmed-tired, lots to do, kids demanding attention, a schedule to meet and things not going smoothly (smoothly really means as I expected they'd go). At times it's because I expect things to go a certain way and when they don't I feel resentful or frustrated-like when there's something I want to do and I expect the baby to go to sleep and plan to do it then, but the baby doesn't sleep. At other times it's because I feel frightened because I think that if I were a better mom things wouldn't be so hard, the kids would do as I say, the kids wouldn't whine so much. Sometimes it's because I don't feel well and I'm tired and I'm not finding a way to meet my need for rest. In each case, I'm yelling because I have unmet needs and I'm in survival mode-you know, the animal desperate to survive comes out snarling. When I see the reasons, the needs and feelings, beneath the yelling then I can be gentle and understanding with myself and work to meet my needs, which frees me to be gentle and understanding with my kids, and other ways of interacting with my kids become apparent.

*"When you plant lettuce, if it does not grow well, you don't blame the lettuce. You look into the reasons it is not doing well. It may need fertilizer, or more water, or less sun. You never blame the lettuce. Yet if we have problems with our friends or our family, we blame the other person. But if we know how to take care of them, they will grow well, like lettuce. Blaming has no positive effect at all, nor does trying to persuade using reason and arguments. That is my experience. No blame, no reasoning, no argument, just understanding. If you understand, and you show that you understand, you can love, and the situation will change." -Thich Nhat Hanh*

(This quote is about dealing with other people, but I believe it also applies to how we treat ourselves.)


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## oneotamama

sledg-you are heaven sent imo!! Thank you for your words of wisdom!


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## angela&avery

thank you sledg for your response. I am having a really hard time understanding how to give that to myself.

this is what happened tonight:
ok, my ds has had a cold and has tissues usually on his bed. Tonight he didnt have any and said hey i need tissues and as i was leaving to get some said no no i dont. well i got some anyway, and he was like no i dont need any. I said well im going to leave them here anyway in case you do... he started freaking out?? He came out screaming I DONT NEED TISSUES... what is the deal? he is not normally like this and I feel like he is totally just pulling my strings to see how much he can get me to do. He is very demanding and I get so sick of him telling us what to do all the time.. not asking which i dont have a problem with, its the telling. He will be like mom mom mom!!! and he is sitting on my bed, I run in, what?? my puppy!! on the floor next to him... im like ......no, you can pick it up....

he is 4 1/2, and I ended up yelling at him which I dont like to do, but I have had it with this attitude.. why is he doing this? and what should I have done. Mind you , I was calm and he was FREAKING OUT because I wouldnt remove the tissues, which is rediculous bc he has a cold and he does need them and I felt like it was an excuse to get back up a hundred times tonight... to blow his nose. So I lost my calm bc I just felt like he is getting into this cycle of demanding things which I just dont feel ok about at his age.


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## angela&avery

to sledg

ok so , in studying my previous post, I am yelling bc... im tired.... its been a long day...but i feel like its bc I dont like ds's attitude.. but im going in the wrong direction with that right?

my needs; im ready for a break. the prob is at this point so is dh and when i yell, I think it kind of triggers him to yell at the kids too, he feeds off me, and its a bad cycle. then i get mad at him for yelling...







.. but im really mad at myself bc I feel its my bad attitude that has rubbed off on him, i dont think he was much of a yeller till i started in. I get mad at him bc its like..... you just got home from work, i need a break and you start in yelling when ive been controlling myself all day and i need you to take over calmly!!!!!! so that need not being met, may cause me to yell... but then i feel im blaming him which isnt fair either. HOWEVER, when im calmer he generally is too. He KNOWS i dont like the yelling, and Im trying hard not to.. so when he can see me doing it he is better too.....


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## Magella

Angela,










I think it's great that you are thinking about your needs and feelings and how they contribute to how you handle situations with your child. I would add that it's also important to think about how your thoughts and perspectives about your child's behavior affect your feelings and actions. Is it possible that your child isn't just pulling your strings to see how much he can get you to do? Could it be that he truly didn't know whether or not he wanted tissues? Could it be that he changed his mind about the tissues and then got upset because when you said you'd bring them anyway he thought you weren't listening to him? Could he have just been cranky because he didn't feel well, unable to cope well and indecisive? And if he is just trying to see how much he can get you to do, is that really _bad_? Isn't that how kids learn about how they affect others and how people interact and treat each other? Could it be that he feels extra loved when you do things for him like pick up his toy off the floor when it's right next to him? Could it be that he felt really tired and that's why he wanted you to pick it up off the floor? I find that sometimes just taking a moment to think of the other possible reasons my child could be doing what they're doing, to recognize that often I'm attributing negative intent when my children's intent is merely to get their needs met, helps. Sometimes it just gets me through the moment without yelling and I still feel frustrated and angry, and that's okay. Other times it really helps me let go of the anger and frustration and frees me to handle things in a totally different way, meeting both my child's needs and my own and really getting to the root of the problem in that moment.

Quote:

ok so , in studying my previous post, I am yelling bc... im tired.... its been a long day...but i feel like its bc I dont like ds's attitude.. but im going in the wrong direction with that right?
Is there a wrong direction? I think there is only being aware of what's happening in the moment. What is wrong with not liking what's happening, or how someone is speaking to you or what someone is doing? I think recognizing that you are both tired and don't like being spoken to or what's going on is very helpful. It allows you to both address your need for rest and your need for peace or to be spoken to rather than yelled at or whatever. It allows you to both decide to get more rest and decide to help your child by both meeting his needs and teaching him that there are other ways of communicating his needs and feelings (which also helps you). KWIM? ETA that recognizing that you don't like your ds's attitude also provides you with an opportunity to understand what not liking his attitude reveals about your own needs-are you needing to feel respected, or to feel like you matter? Are you wanting control, and if so why? What need is unmet that leads you to desire control? (example: I often wanted to control my kids and their behavior because I was afraid that their behavior meant I was a bad mother or doing something wrong as a mother, and I needed reassurance that I was a good (enough) mother.)

Quote:

my needs; im ready for a break. the prob is at this point so is dh and when i yell, I think it kind of triggers him to yell at the kids too, he feeds off me, and its a bad cycle. then i get mad at him for yelling... .. but im really mad at myself bc I feel its my bad attitude that has rubbed off on him, i dont think he was much of a yeller till i started in. I get mad at him bc its like..... you just got home from work, i need a break and you start in yelling when ive been controlling myself all day and i need you to take over calmly!!!!!! so that need not being met, may cause me to yell... but then i feel im blaming him which isnt fair either. HOWEVER, when im calmer he generally is too. He KNOWS i dont like the yelling, and Im trying hard not to.. so when he can see me doing it he is better too.....
This is a valuable insight, IMO. It's not blaming so much as it is recognizing how you affect each other, and what you both need to function in a way that feels better. You are interconnected, and when you are aware of that you are open to the myriad ways of solving the problem of both of you yelling. I think you're right that it doesn't help to say "it's my fault" or "it's his fault", but it does help to say "we do better when we support each other" or "each of us has a harder time remaining calm when the other is yelling/in a bad mood". YK?

I was playing chess with my dh last night, and thinking that life and parenting are a lot like playing chess (except, of course, that life and parenting are not about winning and losing). When you play chess and you make a move that doesn't work out as well as you had hoped it would, you don't sit there and beat yourself up over it or think about all the other great moves you _could have_ made. You can't undo your move. You just look at the board, and respond by making the best move you can at the moment given the current position of pieces on the board. You can plan a little tentative strategy, but you can't actually predict what's going to happen because there's another person sitting across from you who can move their pieces in unpredictable ways. You can't control others or events. So you just respond as best you can in the moment.

This is what life and parenting are like. The past is done, you can't undo it though you can draw on that experience in the present. "What could have been" is a fantasy, and dwelling on all the wonderful things you could have done or that could have happened is not helpful-it just distracts you from the present. The future is unknowable, really. You can't actually predict what will happen even five minutes from now. All we really have, all that is real, is this present moment. To live in this present moment, and to respond in the best way we can in this present moment, we just have to be _aware_ and to _listen_. We have to listen to ourselves and to our children and to our partners, that's all. If we're aware and listening we can find our way. We can't control, but we can respond and we have a lot of choice in responding.


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## WuWei

Amen, Sledg!























Pat


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## Magella

I just wanted to add that I have found that clinging to my ideas about what is right or wrong, good or bad, appropriate or inappropriate, and so on (regarding myself and my kids and other people) is really a big obstacle to parenting gently. For me it's problematic because focusing on whether behaviors, feelings, thoughts, etc. are right or wrong (or whatever I may label them) really gets in the way of being aware and listening, and thus gets in the way of growing and meeting needs, and gets in the way of responding to my kids with compassion.

I felt I was taking a huge, huge risk the day I decided I wasn't going to stop myself from yelling anymore. I thought I had tried everything else to stop yelling and it didn't work, so instead of trying to not yell I was just going to observe myself. I decided that instead of trying to stop myself from yelling, I would simply notice what I was thinking and feeling without judging whether it was good or bad and without trying to stop myself. I hoped that in doing so I would uncover some understanding or wisdom that would help me change. It felt like a huge risk because I was afraid that in not trying to stop myself I was giving myself permission to yell, and that in doing so I would become an even worse parent. I thought this because I, like so many people in American culture, have been conditioned to believe that people are essentially flawed and bad, that without control and shame and punishment people will act in evil and selfish ways. What happened, instead, was that when I decided to simply notice and to not try to stop or judge myself I immediately began to yell less. I felt relief, less pressure, and the urge to yell came less often and less quickly. As I began to notice my thoughts, feelings and needs without judging them I grew in understanding and patience and compassion. I learned I wasn't a bad person, I simply had feelings and needs that I ignored, I simply clung to beliefs, thoughts, assumptions, and perspectives that were inaccurate-and all this blocked awareness of what was really going on and prevented me from responding in a compassionate way. I learned that focusing on 'right' vs. 'wrong' or other such labels got me nowhere, but that my heart will show me the way if I only pause, let go, and listen (to myself and to others). My true nature is compassion. I was never flawed or bad, I was only told that I was and believed it. I also learned that I can trust my children to grow and learn what they need to know to make their way in the world, it just takes them time to do so. What freedom these realizations brought me! Yes, sometimes I do fall back into old patterns and yell, but it is now so much easier to see it and simply let it go. And we're all okay even still. No one has died, everyone here is growing in gentleness and compassion. And when we have our moments of not being compassionate and aware, it's okay. That's part of life. Life includes it all-pain, joy, suffering, contentment, happiness, sadness, ease, frustration. It's all part of it, and it's neither good nor bad. It is what it is. Each moment, each interaction, each behavior-it is what it is. When I can see that, I am free to respond gently and compassionately because I don't feel afraid or threatened.


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## WuWei

Sledg,

This is the most profoundly insightful post I have ever read on MDC. Where can this post be most visible? I want to copy it to every forum: TAO, Spirituality, Personal Growth, Toddlers, Childhood Years, Parenting Issues, etc. I believe Everyone would benefit from this message of unconditional acceptance and awareness of Self.

Seriously.

Pat


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## Magella

I have no idea where it would be most helpful. I put it here because this really was what helped me yell a lot less. Where do you think it would help?


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## WuWei

The Childhood Years. I can't even go there without feeling sad for the kids.







They are so, so JUDGED for their _behaviors_. Maybe as an invite to GD. You can be our Ambassador.









ETA: Please.









Pat


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## ilex

I love you Sledg.


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## angela&avery

thank you for your reply sledg, it all makes sense to me in hindsight, its just trying to remember everything in the moment, you know? I absolutely think a lot of my frusteration and yelling is like what you said,

"example: I often wanted to control my kids and their behavior because I was afraid that their behavior meant I was a bad mother or doing something wrong as a mother, and I needed reassurance that I was a good (enough) mother.)"

I think that I am always concerned about my kids behavior and it certainly does validate me as a good mother when I "control" their behavior... which I can see is just rediculous bc they are just kids and if they are loved and trusted and nurtured, and listened to, they will be fine.... and they will do things they aren't "supposed" to because they have to make mistakes to learn from them and figure it all out...... and thats ok ....... I know that...... but why cant I stop and recognize their needs....why cant I just see that he feels Im not listening to him and that makes him upset? It makes me so sad to think I made him feel that way, but I lose all empathy when I get frusterated. I dont think my parents EVER took into consideration how we felt about as kids. It was just we did what we were told bc they said so. My mom rarely played with us, did crafts, went bikeriding, swimming, for a walk, to the park... she was so uninvolved, I entertained myself ALL THE TIME. I wish that it wasnt so hard for me to break away from the not listening to their needs part when Im upset or in conflict with my kids. I have broken away from everything else from my childhood that I dont like, except for this. You know, of course he is upset bc he feels im not listening, he is tired and doesnt feel well. Of course my dd is feeling out of control bc growing up is scary and there arent enuff choices, or too many choices .... of course she doesnt want to go to bed bc big brother isnt home and she is lonely in her room without him....(which btw I NOTICED tonight!!!!! and she is now asleep.... I did not lose it and yell.. though I was firm)


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## loon13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellasmum*
I love you Sledg.

















:

I keep coming back to this thread to reread your replies, sledg.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angela&avery*
Of course my dd is feeling out of control bc growing up is scary and there arent enuff choices, or too many choices .... of course she doesnt want to go to bed bc big brother isnt home and she is lonely in her room without him....(which btw I NOTICED tonight!!!!! and she is now asleep.... I did not lose it and yell.. though I was firm)

Yay! That's a step, isn't it? And I can see from your post how empathetic your are being towards your children.


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## angela&avery

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loon13*

Yay! That's a step, isn't it? And I can see from your post how empathetic your are being towards your children.


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## ilex

I also want to add to this that losing the moment and feeling like I need to control the behavior always comes from the "other" voices in my head...my mom, my dad, my sister, my children's dad, my childhood, parenting "experts", society in general, my insecurities...and as Sledg has said if you stop, pause and listen you will find yourself in their somewhere, and I almost always find that that is the voice I most need to hear. That is the voice that knows my kids, knows how ridiculous and empty all those other voices tend to be, especially when it comes to my knowing how to respond to and love my children. My instinct is so buried beneath all of these learned responses and it is bloody hard to shut them up, but if you can and you can HEAR yourself you will know what gibberish the others speak.

And in moments of stress it is so hard, and when those other voices are actually people in the flesh, but I have found that when I stop and listen especially in those moments, it is like I have passed through and gone over to the other side.







It is so rewarding, so wonderful to make MY voice the one that comes through loud and clear. And to feel that this voice is important and valid. It is amazing to me that we are so insecure when our children trust us so deeply and without question when we are listening to our selves.

Just thought I would throw that out there because I know how impossible it is sometimes to get lost in what others think you should be doing or how your children should be behaving and how sometimes it is hard to separate your own beliefs from those shoved down your throat your whole life.


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## writermommy

I have the yelling problem too. Only for me, it has nothing to do with cleaning or "listening" but with the constant fighting between my oldest 2 children. It is completely ridiculous and hateful at times. I really can't take it anymore. I just yelled at them about 10 minutes ago and I am still angry. Mainly, its my oldest being mean and calling names to my 5 yo that starts the fighting. Today, she started and my 3 yo joined in, repeating the awful things that were coming out of the 7 year old's mouth. I lost it. Not only are they completely mean to each other, but now they are teaching the baby the same. I told them if they can't get along, they are not allowed to play together for the day. I just can't take the mean, awful things they say to each other. I'm at my wits end and I just don't know how to deal with this situation. Leaving them to work it out isn't an option. It only gets worse.


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## mamachandi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *writermommy*
I have the yelling problem too. Only for me, it has nothing to do with cleaning or "listening" but with the constant fighting between my oldest 2 children. It is completely ridiculous and hateful at times. I really can't take it anymore. I just yelled at them about 10 minutes ago and I am still angry. Mainly, its my oldest being mean and calling names to my 5 yo that starts the fighting. Today, she started and my 3 yo joined in, repeating the awful things that were coming out of the 7 year old's mouth. I lost it. Not only are they completely mean to each other, but now they are teaching the baby the same. I told them if they can't get along, they are not allowed to play together for the day. I just can't take the mean, awful things they say to each other. I'm at my wits end and I just don't know how to deal with this situation. Leaving them to work it out isn't an option. It only gets worse.

just wanted to comment. My sister and I are 1 1/2 yrs apart and we used to fight like crazy-one time when my mom got fed up she made us write down all the things we liked or thought were good/cool about our sister. we then got to read what the other wrote- it was alot of fun and we stopped fighting...for the day-







good luck!


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## Magella

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angela&avery*
why cant I stop and recognize their needs....why cant I just see that he feels Im not listening to him and that makes him upset? It makes me so sad to think I made him feel that way, but I lose all empathy when I get frusterated. I dont think my parents EVER took into consideration how we felt about as kids.

Well, there you go. You can't listen when you haven't been listened to, you can't give empathy when you're still in need of it yourself. You just can't give what you haven't got. But you can listen to yourself, and you can give yourself empathy, and then you will be able to listen to your kids and give empathy to your kids. It takes practice. Which it sounds like you're doing.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angela&avery*
Of course my dd is feeling out of control bc growing up is scary and there arent enuff choices, or too many choices .... of course she doesnt want to go to bed bc big brother isnt home and she is lonely in her room without him....(which btw I NOTICED tonight!!!!! and she is now asleep.... I did not lose it and yell.. though I was firm)
















See, you can do it. And each moment you do listen and give empathy (to yourself and your kids) and handle things without yelling, the more likely you'll be to handle things this way the next time. Practice does not make perfect, but it can make a pretty good habit.


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## writermommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chandraj*
just wanted to comment. My sister and I are 1 1/2 yrs apart and we used to fight like crazy-one time when my mom got fed up she made us write down all the things we liked or thought were good/cool about our sister. we then got to read what the other wrote- it was alot of fun and we stopped fighting...for the day-







good luck!

The writing thing might work. I have tried having them say something nice to each other in the past. Unfortunately, when they are angry, they will say something like, "You draw really good" but in a passive-aggressive, nasty tone of voice. I found that just aggravated me more.







:


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## rianna

Thank you all so very much.... This thread envoked some serious emotion in me.

I am a yeller.... I yell at my girls. My mother yelled... I know this and still I have such a hard time controlling it. My beautiful Aurora (and just like the original poster she will be 4 in March) is having a very hard time. She is alwyas being told no or "shhh, dont wake your sister" or "why would you do that, whats wrong with you". I hate this and in response to a few different things she has become a terror. She yells at me and talks back, wont listen and acts crazy. She has a new sister and we have moved out of grandmas house without daddy (although he seems to be here all the time) so with all the changes and new baby I see her trying so hard to get attention. I try but how much can I do? My poor baby.
I have to stop yelling.... I yell at my oldest girl as well... now I have yet another daughter and this is not what I want to teach them. Mothers and daughters .... what can I say.

I am so glad I have read this thread and I will continue on my path and try, try, try not to yell. I so need to break these patterns.

Thanks mamas!


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## dillonandmarasmom

I read through the help me stop yelling posts. Your responses really struck a chord in me. I tried what you said you did, not trying to stop yelling, but listening to myself and my feelings.

I had the most peaceful and loving day today. My kids enjoyed it, too. They even enjoyed EACH OTHER!









So, thank you for putting into words what I probably new underneath all this frustration and desperation! I and my kids appreciate it so much


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## MrsRoss

:

I don't have a problem with yelling at ds (just yet). He's only 12 months. I do have a big problem with yelling at dh, and I also tend to do it in front of ds. So I'm subbing to this thread so I can re-read!


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## Magella

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dillonandmarasmom*
I had the most peaceful and loving day today. My kids enjoyed it, too. They even enjoyed EACH OTHER!









I am so happy for you!


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## angela&avery

Well, I talked to dh a little last night bc yesterday I had a great day of not yelling, and then he came home with a crappy attitude. So later after the kids were in bed, I told him that it was ok to be firm ( i had gone to the gym adn i guess the kids wouldnt go to bed so he ended up yelling at them), but that saying what he needed to say did not need to be yelled, and that it is very frusterating to work all day long not to yell, and for him to come in with a swoop and start right in being irritated at every request. Now, when he yells he just kind of hollers, he is not mean and gruff and in their face or anything, its just louder, so its not like he is nasty about it (thank goodness).. he just gets louder....but I still dont think its necessary.

Also wanted to add that the idea of giving myself empathy gives me a kind of peace inside. Just thinking..."I deserve some empathy for not having been listened to as a kid, for not being part of decision making as a child".. it makes me feel better......


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## angela&avery

how is everyone doing? I m doing ok. Im really trying to stop and think before I yell. It is very hard but I feel Im making some progress really understanding where they are coming from rather than getting upset bc they wont cooperate.


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## oneotamama

Sledg, they should pay you for your wisdom. Seriously.

You don't know how many times I have stopped in the heat of the moment in our house now and asked myself, "What is really needed here?" If I have a whiney child, what do they need? If I am feeling "off" what do I need? I find that if I'm annoyed w/dh, I'll take it out on the dc b/c they're in the house w/me while dh is gone. What do I need? I need to talk about something w/dh, not yell at my kids or be annoyed.

I also have been really evaluating my own needs. Where do I fit into this circle of family? Who am I? Not just as a mother, but as a person. And as a wife. It's my dh's and I's 5th wedding anniversary today. My SIL has volunteered to babysit on Sunday so we can spend the day together. I'm really anxious about it. How sad is that? But I don't know what we'll talk about or do w/out the kids. Who am I? What will I want to talk about if it's not the kids? Messed up huh? Makes me realize that it's no wonder I am feeling grouchy when all I live for is my dc. Not that it's wrong, but there needs to be more...at least for me. I'm a SAHM and not that I want to go to work, but I need something for myself.

Okay, I've rambled enough. I love this thread. Keep it coming.


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## Magella

Liz, isn't it wonderful in a scary and "duh, no wonder" kind of way? The gift you have given yourself is that now you recognize some of your needs and can do something to help yourself feel better, which will help you understand your children better and better meet their needs. Oh, and to be honest I didn't come up with all this wisdom on my own, though I am happy to pass it on and hope it helps others. I did a lot of reading to learn this, and a lot of putting what I read to the test in my own life to see if it really made sense.

Angela, I'm glad your doing all right and that you're finding some success in pausing to look at your own needs and your kids' needs. This is really hard work, and you are very strong and courageous to do it. I would like to just offer this suggestion that helps my dh and I connect and support each other so that my crankiness doesn't set off his crankiness or vice versa so that we're both yelling-I'm talking about evenings after he's been at work all day since this is the tough time for us. Literally, when he walks in the door at the end of the day he gets tackled by kids and then the two of us take a few moments to hug and kiss and ask each other how our days went, no matter what is going on or how bad our moods are. We will tell the kids, if they are trying to talk or get our attention, to please wait because we are having an important conversation and we will be done in a minute. This helps because in this way we both have the opportunity to be heard and to receive empathy. Often this is all it takes to keep us calm for the evening, sometimes because then one of us realizes that the other needs more support so we step up to give it and sometimes just because it gives us the emotional release we need. Once in awhile if my day is really, really bad in a way that makes me want to press my face against the window watching for dh desperate for relief, I know that he'll need some warning that it's that bad and I'll call him at work before he leaves. When he answers I say "You have a collect call from h*ll, will you accept the charges?". This does two things, first and most importantly it makes us laugh and secondly it tells him in no uncertain terms that I really, really need him to walk in the door ready to take over in a calm way to get us through the night. It's not easy parenting together at the end of the day when you're totally frazzled and at the end of your rope.

To all of you working so hard, please remember to laugh. That sense of humor is so incredibly important, and laughter is such great medicine.

Also, I checked out a book UUMom recommended somewhere (can't remember which thread) called "When Your Child Drives You Crazy" by Eda LeShan and it's a good book. I like a lot of what she has to say, a lot of it is stuff I that I think can help me with yelling. I still work on this every day myself. Just yesterday I had a tantrum because the house was still an unbelievable mess after Christmas (relatives bought waaaaay too many toys) and the kids just wouldn't help me put things away no matter how often I asked or which things I asked for help with-and they kept taking out toys. I got totally overwhelmed, totally lost my perspective, and yelled something like "I NEED SOME HELP!!! I CANNOT CLEAN THIS BY MYSELF WHILE YOU KEEP TAKING OUT TOYS!!! WE WILL NOT GO TO NANA'S HOUSE UNTIL THIS HOUSE IS CLEAN BECAUSE I CANNOT STAND THE IDEA OF COMING HOME TO THIS MESS!!!" (now, I was talking about the downstairs which really doesn't take long to clean-especailly since all I wanted was to pick up toys and stuff them under the christmas tree.) Well, the place got clean and I got help, and I apologized for yelling but said I was not sorry for feeling angry because I really did need help and I really did ask nicely. I realize now that I could have gotten down on their level (physically), looked into their eyes, and explained how I was feeling and asked them to help in more specific ways-and they probably would have understood and cooperated, but at the very least we all would have felt better. Today is another day to start fresh. And I have come a long, long way so far-so I'm not discouraged, but hopeful and committed to doing better.


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## oneotamama

Sledg--for some reason your posts make me teary eyed. I wish you were my neighbor!! You could keep me stable!


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## Magella

Liz, it would be great fun to be your neighbor, but I couldn't keep you stable.







One cannot remain stable, and even if you could only _you_ could do it, and even if you could it wouldn't be any fun. (ETA: That may sound weird. What I mean is that part of the beauty and wonder of living is experiencing the full range of our human emotions. To remain in an unchanging, stable state might seem appealing at times, but to leave out part of the range of human emotion seems...like missing out, a little empty. Of course, I know what you mean by stable isn't exactly unchanging and limited, but more like moderated. Now I've rambled enough to feel as though I can taste my foot.)

To all you ladies struggling, I want to recommend two books. They are written by a Zen teacher, but do not have an overwhelmingly Buddhist aura about them and I love them because they make so much sense and offer a different view of ourselves and life than popular culture conditions us to have. They are: _There Is Nothing Wrong with You : Going Beyond Self-Hate_ and _Time-Out For Parents: A Guide To Compassionate Parenting_, both by Cheri Huber (_Time-Out For Parents_ is co-authored by Melinda Guyol, MFT). These books are all about listening to your internal dialog, your needs, your feelings and knowing that, well, there's nothing wrong with you. _Non Violent Communication_ is also an excellent resource for this.

Blessings to all!

Oh, and what did the Dalai Lama say to the hot dog vendor?

"Make me one with everything."

Then the hot dog vendor says "That'll be $1.50". The Dalai Lama gives him a $20 bill, and the hot dog vendor sticks the $20 in his pocket and goes about his business. The Dalai Lama says "What about my change?" and the hot dog vendor says......

"Change must come from within."

(everyone needs stupid jokes sometimes!)


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## abandbunk

WOoo HOooo I hope I will not be hated for bumping this thread a week after it "died" lol, I just ran across it someone linked it from the GD boards and I am in love







, I sooo badly want to quit yelling, it makes no one feel good including myself, not to mention it doesn't even work







: , ds just feels bad and so do I. THank you thank you thank you to everyone that responded, I really really hope we can keep this thread going! I could REALLY use the support right now, as I'm sure could other people!


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## oneotamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abandbunk*
WOoo HOooo I hope I will not be hated for bumping this thread a week after it "died" lol, I just ran across it someone linked it from the GD boards and I am in love







, I sooo badly want to quit yelling, it makes no one feel good including myself, not to mention it doesn't even work







: , ds just feels bad and so do I. THank you thank you thank you to everyone that responded, I really really hope we can keep this thread going! I could REALLY use the support right now, as I'm sure could other people!

No problem w/me....this is all good stuff


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## loon13

We live in an attached house, so when neighbors yell we can hear it.

Today I heard my neighbor screaming at her little boy and the little boy sobbing. (Unfortunately, this is a frequent occurrence.)

But today it really hit me that oh, gosh, what must I sound like when I am yelling?

For a fleeting moment, I thought of keeping a tape recorder around so I could catch myself on tape if I happened to yell. But then I realized I don't need the tape. I can picture it very well, in detail and in stereo, all in my head. A very scary picture of me with voice at full volume and dd crying.









I'm going to remember that picture the next time I'm tempted to yell. Doesn't mean I might still not be upset at whatever might cause me to want to yell. Also doesn't mean that I might still not make mistakes.
But maybe it will give me that moment to pause, take a deep breath, and think of a better way to approach than yelling.


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## IdentityCrisisMama

a bump for me to read.


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## tekslilbrat

I just found this thread and relate to soo much of it. I am a yelller and so was the rest of my family. My boyfriend on the other hand is cool, calm and barely ever yells. We have 7 kids between us 3 his, 3 mine and one ours. His 12 year old is the I know it all and eveyone has to listen to me almost teen who drives everyone in the house crazy. He has been mean and nasty to eveyone including his dad and it really gets me going







His youngest is hyper off the scale







which gets to me ad well as I also have a 10 year old with ADHD







and a 7 year old who thinks she rules the roost.







I find myself yelling alot when they are all here to try and maintain some control because I feel like things are completely out of control when they are all together. I feel like a bad mother and that my kids can do nothing right and his kids do no wrong. Mabe I am overthinking things and am letting things get out of control in my head but it makes me want my kids in control even more so I yell. This thread has helped me sooo much that I know I can lock myself away with my kids and tend to only them andtheir needs rather than get upset or angry at everyone. It is overwhelming sometimes but I am going to take everything into consideration from now on and really try to focus on their and my needs rather than yell. THANK YOU TO ALL WHO GAVE SUCH GREAT ADVICE!!!! Gotta grab my mischievous lil guy outta the cat food!! THANKS AGAIN!!!!


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## dharmamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cravenab00*
They dont listen to me if I talk quietly, if I ask nicely etc...

I have no clue where to start. HELP!!!

The thing that I always remind myself is that if I yell, I train my kids to only listen when I yell.

I also remind myself that things really do go much more smoothly when I remain calm.

Namaste!


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## SabDoulaMommy

Gosh this could be my life. Except my kids are 2 yo twins. They really don't listen well, b/c they're 2. They fight b/c they are 2 & want what the other has. I feel like the past 2 years of always meeting their needs is just wearing thin & when are they going to start cooperating?

So I really believe in asking myself "what are my needs?" (Do I do it all the time? NO. or no follow-thru.)

Hugs to all you mamas out there. At least we're not alone.


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## muse

Can I join? I'm bawling my eyes out here reading all the posts and wonderful words of wisdom.

My story; I don't know that I actually was yelled at as a child (my brother bore the brunt of things from my dad) but my mum was certainly extremely depressed and I think unable to give me the nurturance I needed much of the time. So...long story short..even after many many yrs of therapy it is still hard for me to feel "valid" in asserting my own needs, and they can come out in wierd, indirect ways.

I've always had an issue with yelling at dp, something I/we've been working on for yrs. I never had this with DS until getting pregnant with DD. That pregnancy stirred up a huge amount, plus I was really sick and exhausted, and it's been a struggle ever since.

I've ben blown away by DS's intense jealousy of DD and it pushes huge buttons in me because it seems to be replaying my own childhood dynamic with my brother which I SO much wanted to avoid. On top of that DD is just a wild little character, and needs attention pretty constantly. I feel constantly torn between the two of them and there is no space in between to meet my own needs.

Add to that an ongoing very stressful life situation (looking for work and a home for months/years now), and..well..I am doing a lot of yelling









As a family we have been working on this together and we start the day lighting incense and saying a little vow that says basically we will do our best to be mindful and compassionate towards all beings. Not that we will be perfect, but we will do our best. It is a helpful reminder throughout the day for all of us.

_____

Yesterday though was a tough tough day and there were many points I had to just physically remove myself and have a little cry, take some deep breaths. What comes up for me in those moments is this deep feeling of loneliness and resentment about having to deal with stuff all alone (I think that goes back to how I felt as a kid and also probably was how my own mother felt).

Anyway, I did make it through the day, and felt pretty good about having "survived" it and not having lost it with my kids; even when DD refused to nap and DS bit his sister's finger hard in the check out aisle. I was super tired and hadn't eaten for 7 hrs when DH got home and I asked him to cook the super easy pasta I'd bought so that I could spend some time reading to DS.
Wel Dh is incredibly helpful and supportive 100% of the time but he can be very spacy and he totally overcooked the pasta. I ended up totally losing it and yelling at him and then spending the whole meal in tears. I am happy at least that I didn't also take it out on my son, which can happen sometimes, and DS was very sweet coming and giving me a big hug, but Dh and I haven't resolved this one yet. In his mind it was a ridiculous overreaction and he took it very personally. For me though I felt I'd been very clear saying I NEED YOUR HELP, and when I didn't feel properly taken care of I fell apart. I think also there is resentment on my part that he hasn't had kids grabbiong at him/whining/clinging/nursing all day long and can never understand what that's like.

I'm writing this huge long post because this is an ongoing theme for me; when I don't feel taken care of/heard/loved I fall apart. I guess I need to focus more on giving those things to myself but when I've been giving out ALL DAY long an there is absolutely no space or time (I got up at 4 am today to have some space) it is incredibly hard......


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## Magella

, Muse.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muse*
I feel constantly torn between the two of them and there is no space in between to meet my own needs.

It's hard to take care of two or more little ones (heck, it's hard taking care of one), but there is time to take care of yourself-and not only that, but your kids _need_ you to take care of yourself. You need to see that your needs are met and that you are healthy in order to take care of your kids. Taking care of yourself isn't selfish, it's vital to being a healthy parent-and a healthy parent is what any child needs. I have found that taking care of myself is not a project that requires lots of time away from the demands of my kids, but instead can be as simple as taking a few moments to listen to my needs and feelings, make sure I'm not beating myself up, make sure I've eaten recently and had enough water, to communicate what I'm feeling, etc. Or to simply take 5 or 10 seconds to just breathe and not say or do anything. And when I do have needs that require time and privacy to meet, it's a matter of scheduling it-making sure it happens within a reasonable time frame and with reasonable frequency.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muse*
What comes up for me in those moments is this deep feeling of loneliness and resentment about having to deal with stuff all alone (I think that goes back to how I felt as a kid and also probably was how my own mother felt).

No mom is meant to do all this stuff alone. We weren't meant to go it alone, to raise our kids and keep the house tidy and get all the chores done and whatnot all alone. We all need help doing it. Lots of moms feel lonely and tired and resentful, because we're doing most of it ourselves without enough help.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muse*
I was super tired and hadn't eaten for 7 hrs when DH got home and I asked him to cook the super easy pasta I'd bought so that I could spend some time reading to DS.
Wel Dh is incredibly helpful and supportive 100% of the time but he can be very spacy and he totally overcooked the pasta. I ended up totally losing it and yelling at him and then spending the whole meal in tears. I am happy at least that I didn't also take it out on my son, which can happen sometimes, and DS was very sweet coming and giving me a big hug, but Dh and I haven't resolved this one yet. In his mind it was a ridiculous overreaction and he took it very personally. For me though I felt I'd been very clear saying I NEED YOUR HELP, and when I didn't feel properly taken care of I fell apart. I think also there is resentment on my part that he hasn't had kids grabbiong at him/whining/clinging/nursing all day long and can never understand what that's like.

I understand what this can be like. I have to say, you need to eat. I would be out of my mind if I didn't eat for 7 hours. It has happened that I've forgotten to eat, and it isn't healthy for me or for my kids-it affects my mood and my patience and everything about me. It is really important that I take the time to eat. And rest is important as well. I would also say that if I were yelling at my dh about overcooked pasta, I know I would really be yelling not about the pasta but about some other unmet need of my own-maybe him cooking wasn't what I really needed, maybe I really needed him to take over with the kids so I can cook and have a break from being touched or whined at, or maybe I needed something else. YK? And I also know that for me it takes some work to really be clear in my own mind about what I need, and to communicate my needs clearly so dh understands exactly what I'm wanting or needing him to do. I would suggest that you consider whether or not you are understanding your own needs (it sounds odd, but I think so many of us are unaware of what we really need because we don't stop to think about it, we just react) and whether or not you are communicating your needs clearly and whether or not your dh hears what you're saying properly (easy to check his understanding by talking about it).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muse*
I'm writing this huge long post because this is an ongoing theme for me; when I don't feel taken care of/heard/loved I fall apart. I guess I need to focus more on giving those things to myself but when I've been giving out ALL DAY long an there is absolutely no space or time (I got up at 4 am today to have some space) it is incredibly hard......

This is an ongoing theme for everyone. I have come to believe that not feeling heard or not having needs met is really the only reason people act out and fall apart. Really, we can list all sorts of reasons for falling apart and acting out, but underneath it all is that feeling of not having been heard or not having our needs met. And I will say again, that it really is possible to see that more of our nees are met, and not only is it possible but it's vital. We cannot give what we do not have, so if we give and give and give until we have nothing left-well, then we have nothing left to give and then not only are we hurting but our kids are too. And only I can see to it that my needs are met. No one else can do that for me. I mean by that, that it is my responsibility to understand my needs and to communicate them and to meet my needs myself if necessary. I can't just stand by and hope someone meets my needs or happens to understand me, I have to make the effort to communicate and to ask people to meet my needs by being very specific about what it is that I'd like them to do. YK?

I have this sense that I'm not coming across well, that I'm sounding preachy. That isn't how I mean this. Every person deserves to have their needs met. Even moms. It isn't healthy to go about life neglecting yourself. It's not always easy, but when I am listening to my own feelings and needs and I'm making the effort to meet my needs myself and to ask people to do something that will meet my needs then a lot of the tension that leads to yelling just falls away. Yelling, for me, comes from that deepest part of me that is just trying to survive. So when I'm yelling, that is a signal to me that I need something, that it's time to stop and listen. And most of the time, it's also a signal that the other person with whom I'm interacting-whether it's one of my children or my dh-also has unmet needs and doesn't feel heard. Time to stop and listen. And if I do nothing but listen to us both, if I take no action and don't speak, that still has so much healing power.


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## WuWei

Thank you Sledg. I so appreciate hearing your wisdom. It helps me to listen to my Self and my needs.

Pat


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## muse

Sledg, not preachy at all. Just full of good (much needed) reminders. thankyou!

I got into a dark place about it all yesterday mornign but then had a good, calm talk about it all with Dh and we understood each other and felt much much better.

I'm reading Buddhism for Mothers right now and she talks about how as mothers we constantly feel guilty; guilty for not spending enought time with the kids, guilty for not cleaning the house, not earning wages, not being the "perfect mother" and so on and so on. It's such a lot of pressure that I think -particularly when I feel good about having made it through a rough day - that if that's not acknowledged then I explode like a pressure cooker.

Ther other good thing she says is it's not our job to be "perfect" as mothers but simply to be fully present with our children (and partners); and certainly when I'm losing it and yeling I'm anything but present, with them, or with myself and how I'm feeling in that moment.

Boy it's a lifelong practice thouhg....


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## WuWei

bumping

I believe this is one of the most helpful threads.

Pat


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## Cherie2

I was reading the pp and thought a tape recorder is such a wonderful idea. Imagine how it would effect you to know you were being recorded?


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## oneotamama

Thanks for bumping this. It truly is an awesome thread!


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## unfrozncavegrl

Thanks so much for the bump. Although, I am not finished reading it, this thread has helped me through an immensely intense morning. It brought me back down to earth and reminded me to breathe.

A therapist once taught me this to say.....

I forgive myself. I'm doing the best that I can.
I forgive myself. I've always been doing the best that I can.
I forgive myself. I'm going to keep doing the best that I can.

Back to reading and loving my little ones.


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## georgia

Bumping back up to the top for anyone who might have missed it


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## medicmama

:







:


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## mimiharshe

This is great. I have been doing so well not arguing b/c of "christlike parenting". i was having a hard day though and b/c of sledg realized i'm HUNGRY!!! lol







I also need a break...good thing we are going on a date tomorrow night. I also think I just need some help. I have a 3 yr old, 18 mo old and no family or firends who can really help out. I'm going to hire a young woman to come over sometimes and ehlp out. Why not? Besides we want to be pregnant soon and I could use the help when baby comes! Thanks Sledg for making me stop and think what do I need, why am I yelling all of a sudden today?

J


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## oneotamama

What's been helping me is that every morning as soon as I wake up, while I'm still in bed, I pray. I thank God for my dh and my kids and for this day. I wake with a smile and am grateful that I'm able to be stay home w/my kids. It seems that if I greet them w/a smile and a thankfulness that I'm their mom, it sets the mood for them to behave in a loving way as well. Of course this doesn't work every day, but for the most part it does.

I've also noticed that if I make a special attempt to be loving to dh IN FRONT OF (not after the kids go to bed) that the kids see that and know that they're loved by two parents who are stable. My kids know several other kids who have parents that are divorced or never were together. We also have a guy working for us that is separated from his girlfriend and their 4 kids were taken into foster care. That's scary for my kids to hear. We pray for those kids every night almost. I think it helps for my kids to see that their mom and dad are doing okay. Our kids are being taken care of by two people who love each other very much. So I guess just taking the time to show affection around the kids rather than giving the kids the attention and giving each other attention later on. Make sense?

We've come a long way in this house since this thread was started almost a year ago. Yes, I admit to having hollered in the past year. However, I bet I can count the number of times on one hand where I have went off the handle. And while that still doesn't sound too great, it's WAYYYY better than it was before. If I speak nice, the kids tend to speak nice.

I can honestly say that by reading God's word, I have helped my family more than anything else could have. It's all right there.


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## WuWei

Bumping.

Pat


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## happyhippiemama

subbing!!


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## Treasuremapper

See my other thread. I yelled at my three year old today. I need some creative solutions.


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## mamamoo

subbing, on page 4 now. I REALLY needed to find this tonight.


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## Surfacing

How are mamas doing these days? ((bump))


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## sparklefairy

I try very hard to remember that when I yell, I am gradually training them to not listen _until_ I yell. It also has the unintended side effects of scaring them terribly or amusing them. Adding that I find that I yell when I'm busy and don't want to stop. I perceive somehow that it will take much longer to resolve a situation than it actually will if I stop and focus on it. My kids are getting that the more time we spend on conflicts, the less time we have to do fun things, especially as I am the only parent 95% of the time and conflict wears me out for fun things.

When mine fight, it's frequently because they need some space from each other, but they do not recognize this or act on it. So either I help them resolve the conflict and separate them if it doesn't help or just separate them if I can tell they're not in a place for resolution yet. It seems more useful to discuss "next time" when everyone is calm rather than to try to resolve things when everyone's all heated up.

I spent a solid week on the house while the kids were in school, getting things the way they should be. I packed a lot of things up that we don't need often. It's easier to maintain things daily than to start from total chaos. Mine are 8 and 6 and very capable of picking up minor messes several times a day but a huge mess was too overwhelming and it wasn't useful to always have them just do a little bit. We now stop playing awhile before we have to leave/to eat/to go to bed in order to have clean up time.


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## WuWei

Bumping.

Pat


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## WuWei

The Wisdom of Sledg.









Pat


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## WuWei

Bumping.

Pat


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## annab

I am a yeller in recovery. I still slip up. I did today. For me, it is a roar of frustration.

On my better days....I remember that anger is rooted in fear. If we are angry, we are fearful. Big mess to clean up? Angry/fearful because I feel I may never get to do what *I* want again. Disobedient children? Fearful that I will be judged by their actions, that we will be late, that my children have no respect (love) for me. Messing with my stuff? I fear I will never have anything of my own that is not damaged.

My son is five. I have started working with him on the "I" statment. I am X, when Y happens." If he says that he is angry, I prompt him to explore his fear.

The two year old is a lost cause.


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## theirmomjayne

Just want you to know that I struggle with all of the above that you mentioned.


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## transformed

OMG Its fate. I was JUST thinking of posting about yelling because ALL day I have been yelling!

I havent been yelling in like a -"Outta control mama" way today, but my 4 year old keeps talking and talking and talking and when I get down at his level to talk to him, he ignores me OR even more often, he just talks and talks and talks and wont be quiet and let me have a turn.

So I yell. And he HEARS me.

Its more like glorified voice raising today, but I still hate it cause I have to get pretty loud to be heard over ds and dd.

?????

It sucks.


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## annab

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
OMG Its fate. I was JUST thinking of posting about yelling because ALL day I have been yelling!

I havent been yelling in like a -"Outta control mama" way today, but my 4 year old keeps talking and talking and talking and when I get down at his level to talk to him, he ignores me OR even more often, he just talks and talks and talks and wont be quiet and let me have a turn.

So I yell. And he HEARS me.
(

I have a talk talk talk talk talker too. Every thought comes right out his little pie hole. My little one will even say, "Shop (stop) talking, Will."

I think this is where Sledg's take on needs is so important. At four, it is perfectly acceptable to say, "I have heard what you have said about (repeat back what was said), and I appreciate that you share your ideas with me. Right now, Mommy needs some quiet time." Then either set him up with a toy/game/craft and take a moment and cup of tea. Set a timer. When it goes off, greet him joyfully. "Mommy had her break and is ready to hear about what you have been doing."


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## Hannahsmummy

Thanks for bumping up this thread. It's definitely something that lots of us need help with/reminding about.
It's timely for me as well since we had a little incident that really got me thinking. It was such a small thing but it threw me. I can definitely be a shouty Mummy and I am trying desperately to change that, it is so difficult.

Today at dinner I was having an argument with my husband at the dinner table. It wasn't anything serious but apparently I was raising my voice, I wasn't even really aware of it.
My 4 year old daughter said "Mummy, how do you feel?" I said "Fine, yourself?" not really thinking about what she meant. The she said "Then why are you shouting?"
On the one hand I was really proud that she was able to analyze the emotion and question it but I also felt awful that she had to, IYKWIM.

Anyways, I am also trying to break the cycle and now realize that I need to concentrate on more that just my daughter in order to set an example.


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## rachellanigh

I just wanted to offer support to you. Its not easy to be a mom. Keep positive affirmations in your mind. I speak kindly and in a gentle manner.
I am at peace.


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## Surfacing

Mamas I think it's human to raise our voices sometimes, perhaps the best lesson for our children is how we get ahold of ourselves after, and also that we forgive ourselves.

I suppose if it's EXCESSIVE and EXTREME that we should become concerned.

Changing my perspective, incorporating some consensual living stuff, playful parenting, being aware of what's normal at the stages of development are some of the things that have helped me. Also doing self care and taking an anti-depressant.


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## vanderpooch

Hannahsmummy, I understand being saddened by being brought back to paying attention(not really the words I'm looking for) but also what a compliment that your daughter has already benefited from such a wonderful emotional education!


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## Hannahsmummy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vanderpooch* 
Hannahsmummy, I understand being saddened by being brought back to paying attention(not really the words I'm looking for) but also what a compliment that your daughter has already benefited from such a wonderful emotional education!

Thank you. It was a double edged sword really-pround and horrified at the same time!
I am really trying so hard to raise an emotionally healthy child but it's tough!!


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## spirit4ever

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mumm* 







:

When I've even asked my 5 year old "What can I do to help you listen so that we can all be safe in this space?' His reply is "Get up close and yell really loud!, then I listen."









This is hard work we are doing.

sorry.....


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## kindacrunchy

To the op, I've been there, done that, and occasionally still do. I am also an only child and the sibling dynamics completely throw me through a loop. I've been in therapy since June and I feel that I am 100 times better. I had to let go of the "shoulds" in my life and let go of my expectations for myself and my family. My therapist told me think about how I want my family to look like. What is important to us as a family and not what is important to other people. It's hard living in mainstream world when you have different ideas of what matters. I started getting "what matters" all jumbled up in my head. I didn't know what way was up. Anyway, this probably doesn't pertain to you, but sometimes letting go of some things that may not really matter will help you relax a little.
The other thing she said was that I have panic attacks when my child misbehaves because I don't know how to handle it. Fear moves into anger and then I yell. I need more tools in my toolbox so I don't have panic attacks.
Lastly, listen to Sledg. She has always made complete sense to me and her posts have always been helpful.
It is a journey and an evolution.
Love yourself, take a deep breath, you are a good mom and learn to know that.
Good luck!


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## kindacrunchy

Ok, now I feel like a dork. I didn't realize the op was in 12/05!! Anyway, hopefully my post will speak to someone


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## oneotamama

This is a wonderful thread, no matter how old it is!


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## happyfrog

I have just seen your post. i did NOT read all the replies, so i don't know if this was suggested. it is a book

screamfree parenting. even if you're NOT a screaming kind of parent but wish you were more calm, etc all the time when responding to your children, it's a GREAT book. I borrowed it from the library lately and plan on reading it again it has that much 'good' stuff in it.

of course, each reader's view may vary, but thought i'd put it out htere. it was not hard to read in 2 minute spurts (pee time, lol). and keep up with the thoughts in it.


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## AuntRayRay

:
I yell way too much







I've tried Flylady and it didn't work for me. I also read two or three of the books suggested in the past. I know I have needs that are not met, but being a single mom I think makes it more difficult. I think one of the biggest of issues would be the house a mess and me being the only one picking up. My oldest still has accidents at night and will take his clothes off and leave them on the floor and his bed/blankets wet. He'll then make meals and leave a mess in the kitchen and where ever else he eats. He's 11 and I feel like he's old enough to pick up his own messes and help a little more. I've tried to tell him how upsetting it is for me..even the other day I was so stressed because while he was at school a lady came over for my landlord and wanted to come in and look at all the windows in my house to possibly change some of them and I say to her that my house is a mess and I just can't let her in right then and there. She says, "I know, I've had my house a little messy sometimes" LOL she had no IDEA! She agreed to give me 45mins..and it was such a stressful 45 min! My son had apparently had food in the living room the night before and there was dishes, lemon halves,sharp knife, raisins (that it looks like one of the younger ones dumped) all over the floor. My son had peed his bed and left it and as I picked up the room found peed on clothes about grr...The cat pooped on a towel in the bathroom that my son had left on the floor(apparently the food is bothering her) and I noticed after i stepped on it trying to go to the bathroom..but I'm going on and not meaning to take over this post








Anyway I'm looking into Meditation(got a book and cd set from a garage sale). Anyone have any luck with meditation helping with anger and yelling?

RayRay~


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## swampangel

I think meditation can be really helpful...even if just to stop myself from acting and just focusing on my breath for a few seconds. I think I often yell when I don't make the effort to filter myself...when I'm on autopilot. Meditation also doesn't have to be such a hard thing...you can just stop where you are and take deep breaths, focusing on your breath. This can slow you down and give you a little reset to come back to the situation with a little more reserves.


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## Motherwolf

I think that being conscious of the fact that you are yelling and that it disturbs you is a start. Bc you want to change. I believe some people don't even know what their dynamic is with their children. It is something we ingrain into our psyche for whatever reason, and we have to become aware of it...then treat it. Like trying some of these wonderful pieces of advice. I am desparately trying to be more gentle and calm and not yell. I felt as though I was doing well with not yelling...and then ds all of a sudden changed over night and has started hitting his 9 month old brother, and being defiant with me. So, I in turn re-act (that is the problem). But, I just see ds hitting my other ds and it burns me. Everyday, I have to take deep breaths. And pray.
good thread, necessary thread.


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## savienu

:

I've been learning a lot from this thread.


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## MamaOutThere

I've enjoyed reading this thread. I checked out Cheri Huber. As soon as I can, I will order the self-hatred book as it was written especially for me, dontcha know?









I've done a lot of work on myself since my first daughter was born 7 1/2 years ago. I started out a sloppy Buddhist. I discovered GD, then TCS, then NVC, then Scott Noelle, and all the rest. Now I'm UU Buddhist who practices a bit better, but still not consistently well. I do okay with the girls, I think. I get cranky only when I'm tired and/or over-stimulated.

But here I am back in the two year-old phase -- and it's kicking my butt again. I know ALL about why two year-olds do what they do. I have all the intellectual understanding I need. I see my patterns, recognize when I'm getting tense, etc. But it just ain't helpin' much. This is total irrationality and it triggers me like nothing else. I grew up in a very unpredictable household, and I recognize that this irrationality triggers my need for things to be predictable -- and my fear that they won't be.

I do not want to freak out on my 2 year-old. And I especially don't want to teach my 7 1/2 year old that mamas freak out on their 2 year-olds!

Some of it has to do with a currently stressful living situation, but I still need to find the calm within.

Some things that got me going yesterday (going but not freaking -- yet):

The 2 year-old wanted to sit next to us on the couch. So I moved the cushions so she could. This made her freak out for several minutes. Then she calmed down, but when she tried to sit next to me she started to freak again as if there wasn't enough room for her. I couldn't see the problem, though I realize there was one for her.

She asked me to cut her food (used the word "cut") then, when I did, freaked out because I cut her food.

Now I can't think of the myriad of other examples (to prove that it does pass quickly). But, basically, all stuff like that where she asks for something then freaks out when I give it to her. Or I don't give her the right bowl or the right cup. I remember it all from when the 7 1/2 year-old was 2. Same stuff.

I want so much to not let it get to me. None of it affects me personally, does it? It doesn't hurt me physically. So why can't I just let it go?

Bedtime is getting rough too. I so do not want her to associate bedtime with bad feelings. She didn't sleep for two years. Now I just have to lay with her and she'll sleep all night. But the laying with her is getting longer and longer. I never had this problem of urgency before (like I have to go wash the dishes or whatever). But right now I can't stand the chatting and the moving around for half an hour.

Sigh. Any words of wisdom for "being with" this stage?


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## Magella

A few things help me be with this stage. One is to remember that nothing is permanent. So maybe she's freaking out now that I cut her food, but she will stop freaking out. (And so maybe she did want me to cut her food, but that desire was impermanent so now she doesn't want it cut.







)

Another is to find the humor. This is so important. And it's hard to do sometimes.

Another is to really imagine things from my child's point of view. So maybe I don't know why she's freaking out about sitting next to me on the couch and that's frustrating. Imagine what it's like for her to feel so strongly about something and not be able to communicate it in a way that others understand, and to not be able to resolve the problem because of that. Really imagining things from their point of view, really trying to put myself in their shoes and understand what's going on in them, helps me stay calm, helps me respond compassionately. Takes me out of myself and what I'm annoyed about, helps us connect. And usually, it helps me see a solution.

It helps to get in touch with what I'm needing. If I feel annoyed b/c it's taking so long for my child to settle at bedtime while I lay with her (btdt), it helps to become aware of why. Maybe I'm needing some quiet time alone to recharge (usually). Maybe I'm worried she won't get enough sleep and she'll be cranky the next day (which is rough on everyone). This helps because I'm then separating what I'm feeling from what my kid is doing, which helps me think about how to meet my needs and helps me see more clearly what's going on for my kid and help her. Usually the end result is that I feel less annoyed, more hopeful, more creative, more calm, more able to just roll with it.

And it really helps to look into that little face and remember that they won't always be little like this. It does pass, and there is so much to enjoy about this time of their lives. One day they won't want to be cuddled to sleep anymore. And I'll miss that. It helps to look into that little face and realize how little they are. Even with my 8 year old, it helps to look into her face and realize that she has only been living on this planet for 8 short years. She's so young. There is so much she still doesn't understand, doesn't know, isn't proficient at. It just helps me make sure my expectations are reasonable. And it gives me warm fuzzies.









It also helps to focus on my children as people and on our relationship, more than on the behavior.

Sometimes, when I can't let things go, it's just that I want things to be easy. I'm tense or stressed, and I just wish I could cut the freakin' food the right way the first time and have a quiet meal because I'm needing a little easing of my stress. Sometimes I can't let it go because I think somehow being able to control things will alleviate my fears, it's so easy to respond to stress by seeking control. There are so many reasons why things get to me and I have trouble letting them go. But usually once I get in touch with what it is that's preventing me from letting go, I'm able to let go. So sometimes, it helps just to pause and listen-not just to my child but to the thoughts whizzing around in my brain (we have so many that we're barely aware of-they're so automatic).


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## MamaOutThere

I was, of course, hoping you would respond, Sledg.

Before I comment, I'd like to say that after I wrote it all down here (which, of course, helped) I sat down and meditated more deeply on the situation.

The first thing I came up with is that I need to improve my diet. I don't eat processed foods, thank goodness, but I do consume way too much coffee and sugar right now. I got hooked on coffee this summer while visiting my mom. And I eat sugar when I haven't made lunch for myself. I have far less patience when I'm jittery from caffeine -- not too mention it's just bad for me. So today instead of replenishing my coffee stash, I bought some special green tea for myself (I don't like my husband's).

Then I tried to think about where I was just weeks ago when I was wishing dd2 would stay 2 forever! That got me back into the right mindset.

I also spent time reading some articles by Cheri Huber.

So today was very good.

For bedtime, I have generalized anxiety about doing it the right way. If I let her stay up an extra half hour so that's she's actually tired when she comes to bed won't it screw up the whole routine I've worked hard at maintaining (I am not a routine person)? And if I don't get her to sleep won't my dh start to say that I need to let her CIO? He might, but I can deal with that when it comes up. And if I don't get her to sleep won't I miss out on precious time with my dh, who has been at home 1 week out of the last 5?

One thing that has worked, but which is veeerrry hard to do, is practice silence when I'm with her in bed. Everyone should try this! No sshhhh, no "get to sleep" no "NOW." Just silence. It's so hard.









It's funny, Sledg, because most of the time I do see her as a baby who is having trouble falling asleep -- and how would I like to be told to get to sleep when I'm having trouble? But knowing that and, yet, separating that from my own need to get to bed or be with my husband isn't easy.

So far what helps a lot is thinking of my 7 1/2 year old hearing mama put her 2 year-old to sleep.

Thanks for the thoughts!

Quote:

And so maybe she did want me to cut her food, but that desire was impermanent so now she doesn't want it cut. )
Love that! Briggs calls it "me homework" when Twos pull stuff like that. I need to pull out that book and see what she says about how to respond to it.


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## Magella

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaOutThere* 
For bedtime, I have generalized anxiety about doing it the right way. If I let her stay up an extra half hour so that's she's actually tired when she comes to bed won't it screw up the whole routine I've worked hard at maintaining (I am not a routine person)? And if I don't get her to sleep won't my dh start to say that I need to let her CIO? He might, but I can deal with that when it comes up. And if I don't get her to sleep won't I miss out on precious time with my dh, who has been at home 1 week out of the last 5?









Yup, been through a lot of that kind of anxiety myself.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaOutThere* 
One thing that has worked, but which is veeerrry hard to do, is practice silence when I'm with her in bed. Everyone should try this! No sshhhh, no "get to sleep" no "NOW." Just silence. It's so hard.









It is hard, but once you do it for awhile it becomes a very pleasant activity. Just laying there, enjoying. Of course, it's easier for me to enjoy now b/c no one *needs* me there until they fall asleep.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaOutThere* 
It's funny, Sledg, because most of the time I do see her as a baby who is having trouble falling asleep -- and how would I like to be told to get to sleep when I'm having trouble? But knowing that and, yet, separating that from my own need to get to bed or be with my husband isn't easy.

So true that it isn't easy. I face this every single day. Not with bedtime, but with other things. It's hard to see my kid's needs and see them as just kids having a hard time, and separate that from my needs--and find ways to take care of us both without freaking out. It is hard work.

And you know, coffee is so tasty (and so good at perking up a sleepy mom) but so bad for my mood. I definitely have a problem with that.

Glad you had a good day.


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## kindacrunchy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sledg* 

Sometimes I can't let it go because I think somehow being able to control things will alleviate my fears, it's so easy to respond to stress by seeking control.

I'm going to write this down because you hit the nail on the head. This is what I have been doing. I'm getting much better at stopping and listening but not for the past week and a half. Sometimes when I do stop and listen, however, I still end up trying to seek control. And unfortunately when I have fears I respond with anger. Working on that, too. Apparently I need to stop and listen longer


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## MamaOutThere

Well, I made it through with only one shhh! I feel so good when I can do this, mostly because my dd1 can fall asleep without the noise of frustration. But the baby fell asleep at 10 (as opposed to by 9 of the past months) and woke up at 8:30. Dd1's on vacation, so it's fine for now.

I mentioned Dorothy Corkille Briggs yesterday. I think I'm just going to have to re-read, for the third or fourth time, the whole book.

I'm also ordering Cheri Huber's book on parenting.

Oh, and green tea all the way, baby! I woke up dreaming of coffee, though.


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## Terrilein

Gosh, I just saw an excellent film - in German - on ways to stop yelling at your kids. I don't know if I'm too late to jump into this discussion though and end up repeating the tips. Also, I'd just be listing them from my head. I need to see it again and take some good notes. But here's a basic run down:

Make contact with your child - you need to be visible for your child and make eye contact with your child. If necessary, stop what you are doing (cooking, for instance) and go to your child. Your body language is very important to children in conveying your meaning.

Be calm - waving your arms about and going off in a tirade makes kids nervous and they will just wait until _your_ tantrum is over without listening to a word you say.

Keep your words short and precise - no long discussions about why they need to clean up the bedroom. Again, kids just turn off. Also make yourself clean. If your child asks for candy, don't respond with "but you know that's bad for your teeth!" Your child wants a direct yes or no to his/her question.

No means no - only say it once. Repeating it over and over takes the seriousness out of it and makes kids think the issue might be debatable. If you're likely to give in, then it's better to say yes directly. Otherwise your credibility is sunk when you say no over and over only to give in in the end.

Use "I-Messages" instead of "You-Messages" - tell your child you're angry/upset about their behavior instead of sending them the message that they are bad people.

Be careful making requests - asking your child to do something may seem like a request that can be denied "Can you take out the trash, please" could very well be met with a "no, I'm busy right now". Rephrase requests to "I need you to . . . " to get the message across that you need their cooperation and are not just desirous of their company.

There may be more, but that's all that I can think of at the moment.


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## berkeleyp

Subbing to help me remember to go back and read through the whole thread.


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## WuWei

Bumping. It is that time of year.









Pat


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## kindacrunchy

i get the wicked, psychotic, hormonal mom title today







. at least i came back this afternoon.


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## Surfacing

They should provide a smiley for that in the mood section, because I'm sure you wouldn't be alone in using it.









What's going on?


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## Terrilein

Has anybody implemented the advice from the video that I posted on the previous page (post 136 I think) and if so, how's it going? I've noticed incredible improvement for us. It has really made a big difference being in the same room and making eye contact when asking dd to do something. I sure hope this helps some of you other moms!


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## WuWei

Bumping, wisdom from sledg.









Pat


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## a(TM)?Star

:


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## AndVeeGeeMakes3

Thanks so much, Sledg, for the wise words. It made me feel a new sense of peace just reading them. That's what's so amazing about this place and why I'm so grateful for it.


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## Magella

I just re-read this post:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
It's one reason I am always posting about connecting --having fun together and joking around. Closeness and connectedness comes first, and then the team work can follow. It's hard to get people to work together when they don't feel like they are part of a team, or if they are always feeling upset about things.

When I play Scrabble, or watch a movie, or share some hummus (we both love it) with my 16 yr old, for instance, we are together in a way that's simply pleasant and not about whether he can take the car whenever he wats...lol. *Relationships have to have a pleasure factor, not only be about arguing and guidance.* We can chat about interesting things, politics, books we've read, movies we hate or love etc without having to hash something out all the time. Later, when I need him, I think he responds better because we already have a relationship history, iykwim. He's emotionally intense, so he needs that connection.

This is something I tend to forget, particularly when I'm really feeling stressed about anything, but it makes a HUGE world of difference-in how I feel, in my being able to *not* yell, in my kids' willingness to listen to me and help out/cooperate, in my kids' moods, in how the kids get along with each other.

So. HAVE FUN!!!! Parenting should also be FUN sometimes, probably can be more often than we sometimes think. We can have FUN with our kids. We can just relax and TAKE PLEASURE IN EACH OTHER'S COMPANY sometimes-even if we're behind on the laundry, or we feel like we must go shopping right this instant or we'll starve for lack of food in the fridge, or the house has managed to get so messy it looks like a bomb hit, or whatever it is that's stressing us out. We can still joke, we can still slow down and enjoy a conversation, we can _*make the fun happen, we can make the time and opportunity to enjoy each other.*_ And doing so will pay off so, so enormously.


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## anitaj71

Old thread but really good stuff . . . Bump


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## lovemyfamily6

Sledg, thank you for the reminder to have fun! I have been having a lot less fun and a lot more frustration lately. I'm getting ready to go play a game with my kids and have some fun.


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## texanatheart

Subbing to this thread. Such wonderful, wise women here at mdc!!


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## UUMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sledg* 







I just re-read this post:

This is something I tend to forget, particularly when I'm really feeling stressed about anything, but it makes a HUGE world of difference-in how I feel, in my being able to *not* yell, in my kids' willingness to listen to me and help out/cooperate, in my kids' moods, in how the kids get along with each other.

So. HAVE FUN!!!! Parenting should also be FUN sometimes, probably can be more often than we sometimes think. We can have FUN with our kids. We can just relax and TAKE PLEASURE IN EACH OTHER'S COMPANY sometimes-even if we're behind on the laundry, or we feel like we must go shopping right this instant or we'll starve for lack of food in the fridge, or the house has managed to get so messy it looks like a bomb hit, or whatever it is that's stressing us out. We can still joke, we can still slow down and enjoy a conversation, we can _*make the fun happen, we can make the time and opportunity to enjoy each other.*_ And doing so will pay off so, so enormously.


Wow, that was a while ago! The 16 yr old I was talking about them is going to be 19 next week! We weathered the teen years...one year to go! lol He's the one who introduced me to Steve Colbert's work recently, and has me wanting cable. lol


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## dorianboy

Thanks pp for all the support and btdt words of wisdom. Will continue to take the positive energy from this thread and try to use it when that moment rears its head.


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## chicagomom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sledg* 
When I can listen to myself, hear my own needs, I can then request that those needs be met or do something to ensure they are met. When I'm aware of my own needs and feelings, then I am more free to listen to my children's needs and to respond to my children more gently.

I appreciated your post, sledg.









OTOH, I had a pretty bad parenting day yesterday, and I was aware of my needs, was expressing them, and it didn't make any difference in whether or not they got met. And the fact that I had expressed my needs and my kids totally ignored them made me feel worse, until I ended up yelling at them.









I guess I wonder about the "expressing needs with kids" thing when one is very upset. I mean, in normal situations it seems reasonable, but when you're about at your limit, it seems like a setup for a big letdown that will just push you over the edge, kwim? My example:

I have been sick w/strep for the past few days, so the kids haven't gotten out much (and it's been v cold). Finally I was well enough to get out to the store to pick up some things we really needed from the store. We had to make a couple of stops, and in each case the kids were just out of control - body-slamming each other in the store, running through the store playing "tag" while yelling/screaming, etc. I expressed my needs for their safety, to get in and out of the store quickly as I was tired from being sick, my requests for them to settle down enough so others would not be disturbed in the store and I could focus on finding what we needed, etc, many, many times.

In the end, I turned out sounding like a nag, and their need to have *their needs* for exercise and blowing off some energy met was in direct conflict with *my needs* to quickly get what we needed from the store without damaging anything (or themselves).

In this case, continuing to express my needs just increased my frustration, as it just made me feel ignored on top of everything else.

I guess I wonder what to do in these situations. Sometimes my needs/family needs are in direct conflict with the needs of my children. And if I'm already about to blow my top, I wonder if I'm just setting myself up if I keep expressing my needs in the hope my children will suddenly change their minds and put my needs before theirs. kwim?


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## Magella

I have some thoughts about what you posted, chicagomom. And I can relate, I've felt and thought the same things.

My first thought is that I've learned that the whole point of becoming aware of my needs is *not* to get my kids to meet my needs through changing their behavior or agreeing to my request or whatever. I can *ask* them to do something that would help meet my needs, but I have to be genuinely requesting and willing to accept "no" for an answer or I *am* setting myself up for more frustration. Asking another person to be responsible for getting my needs met leads to frustration.

Sometimes I don't need to make a request of my kids, sometimes that isn't helpful in the moment. Sometimes it's enough to know what my needs are and begin to do something to meet those needs myself. Sometimes my needs can wait a bit, sometimes I have more than one need and I have to become aware of which is more pressing, sometimes my needs require some planning in order to get them met, sometimes my needs can be met with the help of someone other than my kids, sometimes I can do something right then that helps me in some way.

My second thought is that I am learning that our needs aren't usually actually in conflict. One thing I mean by that is that there is a difference, a significant one, between a concern/need and a solution. I, like many other people, often get stuck on a particular solution and think of that as my need. (For example: I may want my kids to help me clean up. That is not a need, that is a solution. My concern/need is that the house is messy and I feel tense when the house is messy, and I am feeling overwhelmed by the mess. I may also have a real need for some help, but that help doesn't necessarily have to come from my children or come from my children in a particular way.) Getting to concerns and putting concerns on the table (the kids' and mine), rather than solutions, eliminates a lot of conflict. It *is* hard to reconcile two _solutions_. It's much easier to reconcile two concerns.

Another thing I mean by saying our needs aren't usually in conflict is that a bit of planning, and problem-solving together, in advance usually allows us to accomodate both our needs. Being proactive is much easier and more effective, and sometimes very much necessary in order to meet our needs. I'm not always good at planning in advance, and it stinks when we're in the midst of a difficult moment and we're having trouble working things out but that's also a great learning experience. The fact that we don't, on any given occasion, work things out so that all our needs were met and/or things went smoothly, doesn't mean that we went about it wrong or that we failed. It just means we try again next time (if there is a next time), that we learn from it.

So if I were in your situation of being in the store with energetic kids, I would've been frustrated too. I probably would've muddled through it as best I could (doing some deep breathing to calm myself, attempting to enlist the children's help by assigning them things to be in charge of finding--things that help meet my needs for inner calm/peace, for integrity in interaction with my kids, for being present in the moment), and learned from it for the next time. I do know now, after having been in situations like this, that the solution to meeting both our needs would've involved getting the kids exercising before we went out. I mean, it could literally have been something like "do some jumping jacks" or "jump on these couch cushions for 5 minutes" or "put your gear on and go run around the house 3 times." Other things that would've helped my kids would be to offer an activity or treat to look forward to.

I know one mistake I tend to make is expecting that expressing my needs in just the right way is going to result in my kids doing what I want them to do. Sometimes it will, sometimes it won't. When it doesn't, that can be frustrating but still be something that will in the long run help my kids learn (about feelings, how our actions affect others, perpective-taking, communication), help me learn to communicate better, help us learn to problem-solve and resolve conflict, and help bring harmony to our relationship.


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## HipGal

Thank you for this thread. I needed it today!


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## wendizbaby

Great thread...I'm glad this popped up again. I didn't get to read all the posts, but I wanted to share something that happened to me today. My ds nursed all last night and was really whiny today. You know, the days where absolutely NOTHING happens and they just start crying? It was like that all day. At first, I was going to him and holding him while he cried over...I don't know, walking down stairs? But after a few hours of this I just finally starting getting to a point where I asked him to please just stop!! Jump to nap time...I put him down and about 5 minutes later he woke up. I spent the next hour trying to nurse him back to sleep but he was wide awake. This never happens...and on the one day I really need a break from him! So we got up and more of the whining. I reached this NEW point where everything he did got on my nerves. I had all this angry energy and didn't know what to do with it. I could see myself heading for a yelling session. Then it hit me....I would yell and get out the energy in a fun way. I yelled (we play-yell a lot in this family, so it didn't scare my ds) as loud as I could. Seriously, I was worried that the neighbors would hear. I yelled and yelled until I could feel the angry energy coming out of me. My ds joined in with me at this point and laughed along with me. Then I ran into my bedroom and told my ds to catch me. I ran around the room and chased him or he chased me and we ended in a laughing, tickling mess in the middle of the floor.
The anger was gone. It was really gone...I was able to patiently tend to my ds the rest of the evening and wouldn't you know....turns out he is sick and thus the reason for the whiny/clinginess.
Anyway, worth a try and I think I will keep this tool in my back pocket for some future use.
Be Well,
Wendi


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## kindacrunchy

i'm super cranky this morning. possibly pms or the fact that i don't do well when i am awakened suddenly. for 2 weeksor so my 5 yo was finally finding something to play with on his own after he woke up at some ungodly hour and then would comein my room quietly and snuggle up next to me until i was ready to wake up. these past three days, he's barging into my room, talking loudly, waking me and his little bro up. it just doesn't start my morning off right. so i gave him the lecture in my 'i've just been awakened in a startling manner and i'm annoyed" voice, which i know doesn't help. so, i told him that when i was done being cranky that we will talk about things he can do when he wakes up so early.
Deep Breath.
Ok, i think i feel better now.


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## Dr.Worm

WOW!!! Great thread! I so needed this today!!! Please keep it going!!!


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## laoxinat

Bleeping server lost my post arrgghh!
Anyway, just a note to say I am in awe of all of the mindfulness we are learning.
Also, this thread is really helping me put my kids' childhood into perspective. Theirs was much better than mine, but I of course remember all the craziness. Just so you know, mamas, when I start feeling guilty about the past, they are like, "What? Our life was crazy? Really?" Yay for resilience!! They are 20 and 16, so we're past the totally wacky stage.
Thanks everyone, esp Pat and Sledg (Um, I know I'm older than you guys, but I still want you to be my mommies







) this thread is helping this mama heal


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## WuWei

Bumping.

Pat


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## Dr.Worm

Having a bad day..bumping for others who might be too.


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## Dr.Worm

Really struggling with being calm...had a bad night with dd last night..really needed this thread...bumping for others who may also need it.


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## bunnybartlett

never posted so I am doing so now just to say

I LOVE This thread and it always helps me.


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## Kristin0105

:

subbing still reading but great info. so far.


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## Ms. B. Sprout

I found myself needing this thread yet again. I thought I'd give it a bump in case others need it too.


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## WuWei

Bumping.

Pat


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## Grumpy72_ga

Can I just say WOW!
I've just sat and read most of the posts and wanted to Thank you all for your insightful questions as well as the awesome awesome responses and suggestions to help! I'm going to go back and re-read them and see where I can start.

Today I will start with me!









Thanks!


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## funkymamajoy

I love this thread. Its another example of coming to MDC and finding exactly what I need.


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## Devaya

I found this thread yesterday when I was thinking 'what am i going to do to stop yelling'...i feel so ashamed bc my little one is only 16 months but already I have yelled quite a few times...no matter how i resolve not to, my control flies out the window in the moment that i'm severely tested and frustrated...and I've received so much insight and help from what people have said on here, thank you all so much. especially the stuff about looking at your own needs - I realised that many of my needs are massively NOT being met,and I need to sit down and figure out what they actually ARE, write them down, and look at them regularly. MDC has once again proven so much more useful to me than therapy or anything else!


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## latinmama

I admit I haven't read all the responses, but the book "Respectful Parents, Respectful Kids." It teaches Non Violent Communication with children, and it has a lot of activities to teach kids to express their feelings.
Great book!


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## Devaya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Magella* 







I just re-read this post:

This is something I tend to forget, particularly when I'm really feeling stressed about anything, but it makes a HUGE world of difference-in how I feel, in my being able to *not* yell, in my kids' willingness to listen to me and help out/cooperate, in my kids' moods, in how the kids get along with each other.

So. HAVE FUN!!!! Parenting should also be FUN sometimes, probably can be more often than we sometimes think. We can have FUN with our kids. We can just relax and TAKE PLEASURE IN EACH OTHER'S COMPANY sometimes-even if we're behind on the laundry, or we feel like we must go shopping right this instant or we'll starve for lack of food in the fridge, or the house has managed to get so messy it looks like a bomb hit, or whatever it is that's stressing us out. We can still joke, we can still slow down and enjoy a conversation, we can _*make the fun happen, we can make the time and opportunity to enjoy each other.*_ And doing so will pay off so, so enormously.

Thank you for this (even if it was posted a while ago!) I have been getting WAY too hung up lately on the dishes being done or the house being perfect before DP comes home, and sometimes realise that the whole day I've barely done anything fun with DS. It's so hard to find a balance sometimes, b/c my sense of serenity also goes wonky if I DON'T keep a tidy house - I'm going to try and relax a bit more though!


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## Snuzzmom

I haven't read this whole thread yet, so apologies if this has already been mentioned.

I am reading the No-Cry Discipline Solultion, and she has a whole section in there about dealing with anger and stopping the yelling before it starts. It might be worth taking a look!


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## Enudely

can someone link to sledge's post that everyone is so excited about? I can't find it


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## Devaya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Enudely* 
can someone link to sledge's post that everyone is so excited about? I can't find it

Sledg is called 'Magella' now (I think) and there are lots of posts from her in this thread, there's one on the previous page of this thread too.


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## sahmama_12

Subbing


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## be11ydancer

I only read the first page of responses but I have been in your shoes many times. I can avoid feeling like yelling if I'm doing a few things for myself like getting 8+ hours of sleep, staying warm (comfy), staying fed, and eating dark chocolate. No, really. If I keep a dark chocolate bar on top of the fridge and just eat a pinch of it when I'm upset, it helps.


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## lolar2

Thank you for the bump Pat!


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## Materfamilias

Awesome thread. I just finished reading it and plan on using it with my 6 y.o. I'm not much of a yeller but I do need this wisdom!


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## juliemarie

This really is a great thread. I've been feeling so aweful lately. I've been yelling so much I've given _myself a headache. This thread is just what I've been looking for._


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## AngelBee

Bumping and much needed


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## AuntRayRay

I struggle with yelling as well








And I was just thinking...............
you know those "no-bark" collars for dogs....well I'm thinking a "no-yelling" neclace would be perfect







LOL LOL LOL


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## Mama2Xander

Just found this wonderful thread... bumping


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## miffyme

dealing with the same issues with my kids. recently took a quiz for adult adhd and i think thats why im so thin skinned with my kids...


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## miffyme

dealing with the same issues of blowing up for no reason irritated easy ...............recently took quiz for adult adhd and would recomened some of you doing the same who always seem to be yelling and upset


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## peaceful_mama

Well, until recently, I was a HUGE yeller. I was trying all sorts of punishments left and right to regain some sense of control over my kids. I *finally* *finally* FINALLY realized I cannot control the words that come out of their mouths, the voice tone they are using, the fact that they keep asking over and over or whining or fighting with each other or any of that garbage.

I CAN control a LOT of other "stuff" in their lives. I AM doing something if I ask them to take it out of my presence right now. I can take whatever I think is causing a big part of the problem out of the scenario...like the TV goes off if it is on a children's show and I want them to do something. They don't get it back until it's done. (I only use that one if it's their behavior that is causing the problem and I need to address that.)

I canNOT give up responsibility for getting my child to school on time. That's part of choosing to send my child to school, following their rules. If he just HAPPENS to miss the morning recess because he messed around all morning instead of doing what I asked him to do to help him get ready....that is entirely HIS problem.

I DO NOT have to get him somewhere HE wants to be if HIS behavior is stopping me from doing what I need to do for the family, or disrupting our peace. I do not HAVE TO do that for ANY of them. That's a good enough reason not to do it right there. He can learn that that behavior does not get him what he wants in this family, this house, this lifetime, and I'd rather have my kids learn that while they are still in kindergarten then when they're my age....realizing that they themselves were a spoiled brat only child whose parents gave them whatever they wanted....except for anything that really MATTERED, like a listening ear, some attention when THEY needed it, even just plain out dealing with the details of life like laundry, food, etc without making them feel like their mom is doing this out of some obligation rather than the love it should be. I know it CAN feel like a total obligation to need to get food on the table, clothes on the backs, all that stuff....but the minute I started realizing that some things in my household could be other people's problems and NOT MINE...........WOW!

It is NOT mean to not make a special effort to rush out the door to get him to the recess he enjoys before school if he's just plain being a pain to deal with that morning. Or to NOT take the library book to school because he didn't help me remember to get it in his backpack and I forgot it because I was dealing with behavior. Or any of those other little details that NOT doing or even thinking about doing for any of my kids...puts the energy I would have spent doing that back where I truly NEED it.


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## Pookietooth

I know that there are folks out there who get their kids to help, but I'm not one of them, at least not most of the time. I wonder if it's just a symptom of the madness of our times -- kids have so many things to distract them from work like TV, computer, etc. Sigh.


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## Pookietooth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miffyme*
> 
> dealing with the same issues with my kids. recently took a quiz for adult adhd and i think thats why im so thin skinned with my kids...


Interesting, because I was diagnosed with that years ago, and now ds has a possible diagnosis as well. And I am also always losing my patience. Wow.


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## OldFashionedGirl

Quote:


> I know that there are folks out there who get their kids to help, but I'm not one of them, at least not most of the time. I wonder if it's just a symptom of the madness of our times -- kids have so many things to distract them from work like TV, computer, etc. Sigh.


I don't understand comments like this. To me it is simple: kids help because you expect it of them. It is not an option. Sure, there are lots of things to distract them. But the things you listed--TV, computer, etc...--are _privileges_, not rights. Shut the crap off: no computer, no TV, no ipod, etc... until they pick up their room/put away the dishes/vacuum/insert chore here.

They are the kids. You are the parent. Like it or not, part of your job is to make them to things they don't want to. To attempt to blame it on a "symptom of the madness of our times" is nothing but a cop-out.


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## [email protected]@Home

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
> Interesting, because I was diagnosed with that years ago, and now ds has a possible diagnosis as well. And I am also always losing my patience. Wow.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *miffyme*
> 
> dealing with the same issues with my kids. recently took a quiz for adult adhd and i think thats why im so thin skinned with my kids...
Click to expand...

ADHD could definitely be a factor. Since I have become aware of my ADHD and started treating it, the yelling has decreased in our house.

I also find it interesting that the OP (5 years ago!) has a child with ADHD. My psychologist told me that if mom has it, there is a 70-90% chance that one or more of her kids will have it. It makes it hard to parent in the way that your brain & heart knows are right when ADHD is involved.


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## edensmama

Thank you for posting this. I am grateful to know that I am not alone in this.


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## aprilv

this may sound crazy, but...if i need something done (like cleaning up the toys, etc) because it's driving ME nuts, then i do it- even though of course i didn't make the mess. sometimes they pitch in, sometimes not. it has helped me a lot to let go of 'they should do this or that because i want them to'. i am actually a lot happier without those thoughts (see: the work by byron katie) even though i am cleaning up more. i don't want my children helping because they have to, when they see me enjoying doing things like cleaning up, it makes it seem less 'chorelike' and they do chip in more than if i directed them to do things. but then it's up to them!


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## OldFashionedGirl

Quote:


> this may sound crazy, but...if i need something done (like cleaning up the toys, etc) because it's driving ME nuts, then i do it- even though of course i didn't make the mess. sometimes they pitch in, sometimes not. it has helped me a lot to let go of 'they should do this or that because i want them to'. i am actually a lot happier without those thoughts (see: the work by byron katie) even though i am cleaning up more. i don't want my children helping because they have to, when they see me enjoying doing things like cleaning up, it makes it seem less 'chorelike' and they do chip in more than if i directed them to do things. but then it's up to them!


With all due respect, I could not possibly disagree more.

I make a concerted effort to STOP myself from picking up their toys and make sure that THEY do it. It takes infinitely longer than if I'd just do it myself, but I feel it's an important lesson teach: I was not put on this earth to act as their personal maid. It sets a bad precedent for me clean up after them now. Now is the time to teach them to pick up after themselves: they are at the age when they DO think it's fun to help. That window passes quickly. I want to harness that enthusiasm NOW, so they grow up knowing that helping is what we do, not because it is always fun, but because we are members of a household--not guests at a hotel.

The reality is that no one likes to clean up and it IS a chore...but it's a chore that needs to be done. If one can make a mess, one can clean it up. It's not that "they should [...] because I want them to." It's that they should...period. In the same way I have to put away my sewing machine when I'm done with it, they need to put away their train when they're done with it.

I don't care if they help because they WANT to or because they HAVE to, but they WILL help.


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## rusteve

I know this is an older post&#8230;.I agree with oldfashiongirl... I disagree with cleaning your kids things and hoping they will pitch in. You aren't teaching your kids anything by doing everything for them. Yes, it may be easier for you to clean up their toys but they can't just go through life having everything done for them. They need to learn to take responsibility and deal with the consequences of decision making. They decided to make a mess with their toys; they need to take the responsibility of cleaning it up. No one will get anywhere in life having everything done for them&#8230; just my opinion. I've been dealing with this problem of yelling hence why I'm on here. I got some great insight from you all. Thank you =)


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## Pookietooth

OK, rusteve and Oldfashioned girl, how do you make your kids clean up without yelling at them? Do you punish them if they don't? Yell at them? Mine rarely help when I ask them to.


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## ChitownTracy

.


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## ChitownTracy

.


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## aprilv

I stand by my post of a year ago! If I want a mess cleaned up, I may ask for the kids to help, but if they're involved with something else or don't want to help, I do it myself. I am the one who wants it clean, not them. If my husband wanted to clean out the garage and I thought it was fine, I'd be mad if he insisted I help instead of doing whatever I had planned.

My back story on this is that growing up, we had chores, things we had to do etc. My mom and dad were the type to say 'I am not going to do all this for everyone' etc. Now I dread cleaning up, it always seems like a big task/burden. I like it when a job is done, but I don't like starting.

My MIL always did things herself, she liked things neat and organized and she did things happily. she didn't make her kids chip in. All three of her kids tend toward neatness and the 2 girls are super organized and clean. So to me, it seems modeling a positive attuitude and showing chores to be an enjoyable thing ends up with better long term results. In the short term, things are more peaceful because I'm not annoyed that I'm doing 'other people's jobs'. I do what I want done and my kids do what they want done. Everyone is happier.


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## Pookietooth

Chitowntracy, that sounds an awful lot like punishment to me -- you didn't do this task, so therefore I will not do this task for you, sort of a tit for tat. After all, the parent does actually have to feed the child, legally, so you can't really threaten to take that away.

I agree with the last post -- modeling works better than threats, punishment etc.


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## ChitownTracy

.


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## Mom31

subbing so I don't forget to finish reading this thread... very much needed.


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## OldFashionedGirl

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *ChitownTracy*
> 
> I have never been part of a online community where people seem to be so much more concerned with "being right" or being argumentative than appreciative of the time someone spent replying.


I couldn't agree with you more. I haven't been a regular on this board for years because I find the women on here to be incredibly judgmental. It's difficult to offer a suggestion when I know the odds are high that someone is going to jump down my throat for being a bad mother.


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## OldFashionedGirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
> 
> OK, rusteve and Oldfashioned girl, how do you make your kids clean up without yelling at them? Do you punish them if they don't? Yell at them? Mine rarely help when I ask them to.


I may be the wrong person to ask, as my kids are only 4 and 5, so I suppose a lot could change between now and the teenage years. That said, I've never really had a problem getting them to help; I've expected it of them since they were quite young. They've always been expected to clean up after themselves. Even a two year old is more than capable of putting away his toys. Early on, obviously, it requires help and direction. Yes, of course, even now, it would often be easier to just do it myself. But I truly feel I'd be failing as a mother if I just did it for them.

I could probably count on one hand the number of times the kids have refused to help. By and large, they pick up pretty cheerfully. It's simply understood: if you can make a mess, you can clean it up. The times when they have refused, I've made them stand in the corner until they're ready to help. The situation usually rectifies itself pretty quickly.


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## Pookietooth

Sorry that my reply was short -- I was running out the door and didn't have time to complete the thought. What I meant was that when someone says that the child says they don't have to clean up, and therefore the parent doesn't have to make the child dinner, that that didn't seem like a consequence, since it's an empty threat -- the parent is going to cook a meal for the family and the child will probably eat it.

I am sorry you felt judged, I was simply offering my opinion about what is defined as consequences as opposed to traditional punishments. Withholding food or other necessities is totally different from refusing to help clean up, unless the parent is physically unable to clean up themselves (or in the case of a teen, if the teen is able to fix their own meals). Your later example does make a lot more sense and in fact I say things like that all the time -- if you help me with X Y and Z I will have time to play this game with you. That doesn't always work though.

Here is some more about natural consequences:

http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/influencing%20kid%20behavior/naturalconsequences.html

http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/rue_kream2.html

http://www.naturalchild.org/marshall_rosenberg/protective_use_of_force.html

I think if you choose to use punishments, call them that. I'm not saying you're wrong for doing what you do, I just want it to be clear to others who might be interested in the techniques you present that they are punishment/reward-based, although they don't involve physical force or yelling.

I think the OP was asking for things to help her deal with not getting her needs met, and you were offering your ideas, as were so many others. We are all on our own time, so I appreciate that.

Hope you all have a nice day.


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## newmama22

Ok, first of all, breathe. Second, realize that the little people living with you are children. They live, learn, and do based upon the example we, as patents, set. Thirdly, if you are not a single parent, your spouse should be picking up the slack in the housekeeping department. After all, we are not meant to have children so they can be our "maids". Yes, children do need discipline and structure. No one debates that, but....you must recognize that you are here for them, not the other way around. If you chose this path, embrace it and suck it up! Beyond keeping their grades up and making their beds, your children owe you nothing!


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## AuntRayRay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newmama22*
> 
> Ok, first of all, breathe. Second, realize that the little people living with you are children. They live, learn, and do based upon the example we, as patents, set. Thirdly, if you are not a single parent, your spouse should be picking up the slack in the housekeeping department. After all, we are not meant to have children so they can be our "maids". Yes, children do need discipline and structure. No one debates that, but....you must recognize that you are here for them, not the other way around. If you chose this path, embrace it and suck it up! Beyond keeping their grades up and making their beds, your children owe you nothing!


great post i agree with most of what you said with the exception of the importance of "good grades" which is just my opinion on that subject But i would like to say that it is more difficult being a single parent.. breathing helps and the awareness that our children are little people who are not our maids, who deserve the same amount of respect as adults if not more


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