# do you urge your children to "color in the lines"?



## tropicana (Sep 11, 2011)

i don't, and they sure don't do it. but i see/hear other parents urging their kids to color in the lines, and color neatly all the time. my daughter is 5 and has never particularly liked coloring. she has no patience for it, and prefers to run around and socialize. my son is only 2 so this hasn't come up yet.

but is there a real virtue to coloring neatly / in the lines? just curious. thanks for your opinions.


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## jocelyndale (Aug 28, 2006)

Nope.

But then, I was never known for coloring inside the lines, either.


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## FarmerBeth (Mar 9, 2011)

I work as a substitute teacher's aid in the public school system. The teachers often encourage Kindergartners to color in the lines to help with their fine motor skills. I think there is some virtue in this, especially if you have a child who hates printing but will practice fine motor skills by coloring. OTOH, I never bother my kids about this at home. They get enough directives at school. And drawing and coloring your own picture is clearly superior practice on many fronts, as it helps fine motor skills and encourages creativity and visual perception. I tell my 7 year old to color "the way the teacher asks him to" (in the lines and all in one direction) at school and however he likes at home.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

No, no, and no. Except for following directions which they'll have plenty of opportunities for. We don't buy coloring books normally, just plain paper and lots of crayons and pencils (coloring books come as gifts and are enjoyed but soon forgotten after the best pictures are colored). My oldest draws from the inside out! She used to never draw outlines first.

I would be quick to tell my girls (quite loudly of course) that they could color it however they wanted to. "Oh, what a nice rainbow face, dear! How CREATIVE!" I was naturally a stay-in-the lines colorer as a kid, so sometimes it comes from inside them. Now, I just have no patience for teaching staying-in-the-lines, both literally and figuratively, so I better go before I say something that gets me in trouble!


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## Mummoth (Oct 30, 2003)

Staying in the lines probably helps develop fine motor skills or hand-eye coordination, but so does drawing a picture or printing. I think some parents just want their kids colouring to look 'right'. I don't think there's anything wrong with encouraging a kid to do their best, but there's a line between that & nit-picking.

My mom has a story of when she was helping in my sisters kindergarten class. They were supposed to colour the shapes in neatly, and then cut them out. My sister didn't even try to stay in the lines, just scribbled all over. Mom asked her why she wasn't staying in the lines and her response was that it wasn't important because she was going to cut the shapes out anyway... mom thought she was pretty smart for realizing this.


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## ~cassie (Aug 31, 2009)

Nope I sure don't. My 6 yr old just this year has started coloring in the lines. My 4 yr old is not particularly good at it. And my 3 yr old is ok at it. I've been kind of peeved at the insistance of my 3 yr old's school constantly drilling coloring in the lines.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

No.

It's supposed to be good for fine motor skills, but it wasn't worth the effort to me. Ds never cared to color at all, and dd eventually decided on her own that she wanted to color in the lines. There are a lot of other fun things you can do for fine motor skills.


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

Nah. How annoying would it be for some big person to be standing over your shoulder all "colour in the lines! In the lines!!!"

They'll get enough colouring instruction in kindy, imo.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

We had a problem in Kinder with DD1. She was so mad that she was told she had to color in the lines. They called it scribble scrabble if she didn't color in the lines. I come from a highly artistic family everyone paints or draws or creates some sort of art. And so I conferred with my mom and she said to tell her that scribble scrabble was art. DD1 went back to school and showed her teacher should could color in the lines but preferred not to and told her her grandma said scribble scrabble was art and so... her teacher never told her again to color in the lines. Then again she hates coloring books she'd rather draw her pictures.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I never taught or encouraged my dd to color in the lines. She had some coloring books she got because she wanted the stickers inside and liked the character on the outside, but she rarely used them because she preferred to draw and color her own pictures. When she came home talking about the teachers telling her she needed to color in the lines I taught her to tell them it is art at first, but when it became clear that they weren't accepting this answer and that she was paying for my dislike of coloring sheets by getting in trouble at school for not following directions I encouraged her to stay in the lines at school and to do free art at home. I explained that teachers sometimes have other reasons for wanting kids to do things a certain way and that even though it was a ridiculous requirement she still needed to follow directions at school.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Not until she started school. At this point, coloring in the lines is good for her on a lot of fronts - she needs to learn to slow down and practice patience and coloring (AND WRITING) deliberately, she needs work on fine motor skills, and she needs to learn to follow directions. Her usual thing is to do as little as possible, as fast as possible and move on to the next thing. She can be really lazy about a lot of things and I don't think "finish what you start" and "at least try to do a good job" are bad lessons. She tends to approach most things this way and it's a problem.

She doesn't really color at home, she draws, but when classwork comes home unfinished I get her to finish it and I make her slow down,do a good job, and do all of it.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

I don't make my kids color in the lines when they are really little either. But, once they are adept with a crayon, and just scribble because they don't feel like coloring and are just being lazy or having an attitude...THEN I say something. I don't think being snotty or wasteful is okay. We mostly draw, too, though. (But even then, I make...especially ds (4) lately...go back and do another picture. He just grabs a crayon, scribbles a bunch and says he's done. He doesn't want to try because dd (6.5) can draw so much better. So, I do send him to make a "real picture". I never comment on how it turns out, just exclaim over what a great idea he's had.) And, I don't tell them how wonderful it was when it was obviously their lazy work either. That wouldn't be honest, and it would be praising false effort.


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## tropicana (Sep 11, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NiteNicole*
> 
> Not until she started school. At this point, coloring in the lines is good for her on a lot of fronts - she needs to learn to slow down and practice patience and coloring (AND WRITING) deliberately, she needs work on fine motor skills, and she needs to learn to follow directions. Her usual thing is to do as little as possible, as fast as possible and move on to the next thing. She can be really lazy about a lot of things and I don't think "finish what you start" and "at least try to do a good job" are bad lessons. She tends to approach most things this way and it's a problem.
> 
> She doesn't really color at home, she draws, but when classwork comes home unfinished I get her to finish it and I make her slow down,do a good job, and do all of it.


this describes my daughter very well, too. she just reached 5 and a half. how old is yours?


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't think coloring outside the lines makes them lazy. Being told how to be creative is the pits!


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tropicana*
> 
> this describes my daughter very well, too. she just reached 5 and a half. how old is yours?


Same. She does not care at all about doing a good job, she wants to do as little as she can get away with so she can move on. This? Is not how I want her to go through school.

Coloring in the lines means she has to slow down and take her time. We only do this on school work that comes home unfinished. We have tons of art supplies (and random things that become art supplies) and I don't care what she does with that. She has an uncle who is a painter and a mom who spent a lot of time in art history classes. We talk about different kinds of art and look at all kinds of things. What she does with her art supplies at home is her business and I like seeing what she comes up with (right now she's writing books and trying various ways to illustrate and it's awesome).

Coloring from school is not about creativity (or at least the things that are sent home for her to finish) - it's about following directions, developing motor skills, being mindful of what you're doing, and finishing things within a set time. It's like saying that expecting her to write her letters correctly in her homework is stifling her creativity (when she writes her stories, I don't nag about handwriting and spelling because if she has to use only words she knows she can spell correctly, she will forget what she's doing while she's trying to figure out spelling. We're working on the idea of writing first, deciding how to correctly spell things, and writing carefully so people can read it but I love her stories and don't want to make writing them not fun so it's a slow process. Also, the kooky spelling and up hill writing is kind of charming and I'll miss it when she's older, I'm sure). It's not the same at all.

Scribbling doesn't MAKE her lazy, but never expecting her to do a good job might.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Nope. I'm all for people coloring however they want.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm pretty concerned about my kids scribble scrabble making them lazy... no, not so much. I was a scribble scrabbler and I'm far from lazy. What is so dang important about coloring in the lines? Someone said it's important? I can't imagine how important it is. It's coloring! You color all sloppy but you stay inside the lines. Really?


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Well...I've explained why I think it's important and why her teacher thinks it's important twice already. Motor skills, following directions, finishing a task in the time allowed. I guess that's three times now.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tropicana*
> 
> but is there a real virtue to coloring neatly / in the lines? just curious. thanks for your opinions.


PP identified the usual purpose in colouring between the lines, It's to develop fine motor skill and a good pre-writing exercise in controlling penmanship (or crayon-ship, if you will),

If a child doesn't enjoy colouring, perhaps other pre-writing exercises like drawing a path through a maze or tracing drawings will appeal. Of course, these activities are probably subject to the same criticism that they are anti-creative, but people don't seem to find them to be the same kind of soul-crushing, creativity-stifling tortures dreamed up by the devil as colouring-between-the-lines.

Yeah, my kids got colouring books and enjoyed using them. They also did a lot of other creative, artsy stuff, and still do. They both attended a performing arts school for high school. I don't think colouring between the lines as kids throttled the creativity out of them.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

I can see why it is important to the school system whose main objective is to create law abiding citizens and good heirarchy obeying workers, but I am not the right person to teach this lesson. I do not follow instructions in my life as an adult (didn't as a child either) and if I think I have a better way of doing something, I will always try that first. I sort of want my kid to do the same, not just in coloring, but in math, science, writing, analysis, sports...you name it. No one who changed the world ever did so by following the "rules". Well, not that I know of, anyway.

When I was a kid I used to color in my pictures at school with my own stuff. If I went out of the lines, I made it a part of the picture. If it was a picture of a bunny, I would also paint a green field and a sun and a rainbow and a basket of carrots, maybe some other bunnies, or , or maybe that bunny morphed into an alien with bunny ears, five arms and a ray gun shaped like a carrot, depending on my mood that day. I got a lot of frowning from my teachers until my mom told them to back off. I think learning to follow the rules should ALWAYS come AFTER you learn how to exploit your creative genius. Brainstorm first, organize later. I am a language arts teacher and this methodology has served my students exceedingly well. I know there are those with the reverse philosophy...I just happen to think they are wrong and have gone to battle over this with teachers before and would again.

Plus the age at which they expect most kids to color in the lines PERFECTLY is not age appropriate. Some will be able to do this by the age of three, and some will not be able to do this EVER. Some people have a frenetic way of visualizing the world, and the world takes all types. We need rule followers, and rule breakers, those who complete the job and those who design the job. Every child should be celebrated for who they are as individuals, because every talent is needed in this world and every gift should be recognized, fostered and exploited (in a good way) for the benefit of society.

Time management and deadline management can be taught other ways, as well as fulfilling others' expectations. Furthermore, there are many less demoralizing ways to develop the skills they will need to tie shoes, sew a button, write a letter or whatever else fine motor skills are needed for these days. To be perfectly honest, the way things are going I doubt very highly that any child born after the year 2010 will ever need to write letters of their own at all in higher education. Most assessments are moving away from paper based exams and a lot of schools, at least in the international school circuit are committed to being virtually paper free by the year 2020. Not that I agree with that, I'm just saying the syllabus is antiquated for the real learner needs of the students. Having great penmanship used to be a horrible debilitation for citizens of this world. The computer age has resolved that issue and it no longer is a factor in life. You don't need it to be hireable or acceptable anymore. My students in grade 10 this year will likely be the last IB students to sit for handwritten exams. Even forms are almost all electronically filled in these days. Having crazy handwriting just isn't a big deal anymore. With the progressive move towards criteria based learning in education, it isn't going to be such a struggle for kids to find their own ways to skin the proverbial cats in their lives.

So...I get why a primary school teacher, escpecially ones who has been teaching for twenty odd years in the system, thinks this is a vital part of their syllabus, but I think they are being incredibly short sighted and would definitely go to the mat over the issue if I felt the comments were belittling his efforts, or diminishing his self-esteem or love for learning.

That being said we all have different goals for our kids, and I totally respect that.







Coloring in the lines just doesn't meet any of MY objectives, but I can see how it might for others.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ollyoxenfree*
> 
> Yeah, my kids got colouring books and enjoyed using them. They also did a lot of other creative, artsy stuff, and still do. They both attended a performing arts school for high school. I don't think colouring between the lines as kids throttled the creativity out of them.


I don't think it is the coloring in the lines that throttles the creativity out of them, it is the mthodology used to teach it. The idea that coloring outside the lines is WRONG or "bad". The idea that a child is behind and needs to do extra work outside of class (rather than playing) to catch up to their peers' ability to color in the lines.

It's not the activity, it's the pressure and total lack of differentiation for different output, talents, and skills. It is the close-minded way in which the children who do not color in the lines are criticized by those who want them to.

For me that has always been the big objection, not the request that my children do so, but the way it was used as a measuring stick for their value in the classroom community. It is the total lack of tolerance for different strengths and weaknesses, and different skills and talents that frustrates me.

ETA: As an educator, I feel it is simply poor practice to offer only one way of expressing a knowledge or skill and rubbishing one's attempts at an assessment activity with which they are uncomfortable and perhaps merely inept at completing. A teacher should always have multiple ways of forming and assessing skills, and never rely on the output of ONE activity to measure a student's progress.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hakeber*
> 
> So...I get why a primary school teacher, escpecially ones who has been teaching for twenty odd years in the system, thinks this is a vital part of their syllabus, but I think they are being incredibly short sighted and would definitely go to the mat over the issue if I felt the comments were belittling his efforts, or diminishing his self-esteem or love for learning.


Well, chances are that a teacher who makes belittling comments and diminishes the self-esteem and love of learning of their students isn't confining that attitude to a colour-between-the-lines exercise. It's the teacher, not the activity, that is the problem there. I'd definitely intervene in that kind of situation too.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hakeber*
> 
> I don't think it is the coloring in the lines that throttles the creativity out of them, it is the mthodology used to teach it. The idea that coloring outside the lines is WRONG or "bad". The idea that a child is behind and needs to do extra work outside of class (rather than playing) to catch up to their peers' ability to color in the lines.
> 
> ...


Cross-posted, ha!

I agree that bad teaching is the problem.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ollyoxenfree*
> 
> Well, chances are that a teacher who makes belittling comments and diminishes the self-esteem and love of learning of their students isn't confining that attitude to a colour-between-the-lines exercise. It's the teacher, not the activity, that is the problem there. I'd definitely intervene in that kind of situation too.


Exactly...some kids LOVE to color in the lines, It gives them great satisfaction to see the image come to life in perfect ways. This does not mean they are imagination-less drones doomed to be cogs in the machine...it's what THEY are good at and likely that talent will be a great asset to society. We need people who can fine tune the chaos of this world and fill in the color of the outlines. Those skills and talents should be celebrated!

But if a child isn't good at that, why can't their skills and talents be celebrated too? Ya know? I just find so many teachers measure their students by a checklist instead of thinking creatively about how they can express their skills and knowledge in other ways. How can we get our students to think outside of the box if we are constantly putting them into boxes?


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## tooraloora (Oct 15, 2010)

I clearly remember when I was 4 and my mother had my brother and I doing a craft project with her. She gave us each a coloring picture of a rose and told us to color it and make it pretty. I picked up a black crayon and began scribbling all over it. I thought it was beautiful and it was just how I wanted it. She got onto me about it. "Roses can't be black and you're supposed to color in the lines! Now it's ugly. Don't you want it to be pretty?" She gave me a new page, and I did it the "right" way in pink, but I was hurt and I hated the "pretty" one. There was nothing enjoyable about it, and I resisted doing any sort of craft with her for a long time. Doing it my way, I was being creative and making my own art, even if no one else appreciated it. It was beautiful to me. If my kids are going to do something crafty/artsy, I want it to be a chance for them to be creative and love what they're doing, even if it's a coloring page (which we don't often do). Doing it to someone else's specifications takes the magic out of it, imo. Art should be about self-expression, not people pleasing. There are other activities to teach fine motor skills and such. I'm not going to suck the joy out of art for those purposes.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Not at home, nor am I too found of it in the school system.

Colouring is associated with art - there are many values associate with art - creativity is a big one. Creativity and being told to colour in the lines do not go together.

In school, kids often have few choices. They are told when to speak, when not to, when to eat, when to go to the bathroom, that their title must be centerred, that the name date and classroom go in the upper corner, etc, etc.

Let them have the freedom to figure out how to colour in their own picture. I am all for letting kids have choices and some freedom, even in school, and art (with its value on creativity) seems like a good place to start.

There are many other ways to promote fine motor skills.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tooraloora*
> 
> I clearly remember when I was 4 and my mother had my brother and I doing a craft project with her. She gave us each a coloring picture of a rose and told us to color it and make it pretty. I picked up a black crayon and began scribbling all over it. I thought it was beautiful and it was just how I wanted it. She got onto me about it. "Roses can't be black and you're supposed to color in the lines! Now it's ugly. Don't you want it to be pretty?" She gave me a new page, and I did it the "right" way in pink, but I was hurt and I hated the "pretty" one. There was nothing enjoyable about it, and I resisted doing any sort of craft with her for a long time.


I know 2 people (my husband and my mother) who stopped drawing in childhood because of criticism of other people.

I do think there is a place for criticism in art - for an older kid who has signed up for an art class.

I know kids are not adults and it does not apply in all situation - but I do occasionally like to ask myself if this would be acceptable if it happened to adults. I cannot imagine I would tolerate anyone criticizing my artwork outside of an art class or if I had asked for a critique. I would consider an unsolicited opinion very rude.

Let your kids have their own art process.


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## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

I encourage my oldest to slow down and pay attention to what he is doing on schoolwork, this results in coloring in the lines. He is another kid who will scribble all over something, rushing through, sometimes without even looking at it. But any other coloring (and especially something that we're going to cut out anyway), I let them do whatever they want.


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## HappyHappyMommy (Mar 9, 2009)

No. I want to let my daughter explore drawing the way she wants.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

There are other ways to teach them all the things mentioned as to why it's important. DH won't color at all because he still has that fear he won't do it right.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

We've been teaching why coloring in the lines is important and why NOT coloring in the lines is important. At 9yo, dd is already getting it. Sometimes you need to do so and sometimes you need to NOT do so. It goes beyond just creativity and art. Learning when both are à propos, to me, is the important lesson to take away... that neither is right or wrong and they need to be applied at different times in all aspects of life.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tooraloora*
> 
> I clearly remember when I was 4 and my mother had my brother and I doing a craft project with her. She gave us each a coloring picture of a rose and told us to color it and make it pretty. I picked up a black crayon and began scribbling all over it. I thought it was beautiful and it was just how I wanted it. She got onto me about it. "Roses can't be black and you're supposed to color in the lines! Now it's ugly. Don't you want it to be pretty?" She gave me a new page, and I did it the "right" way in pink, but I was hurt and I hated the "pretty" one.


Funny dd had a very similar experience when she was making a Father's Day card for dh. They were making little cards that looked like suits with a tie (which is really funny because dh doesn't even OWN a suit that fits him). Dd wanted both the suit and the tie to be black. Her teacher suggested/requested (it was being relayed by a 7 year old, so who knows?) that she make it more colorful. Dd complied, but then came home in tears because it wasn't the way she had envisioned it. Luckily, the design was easily replicable, and I made her a new one and let her do it her way. I have to say, she took much more care with the all black 'suit' and tie, and with the white part left behind to look like a shirt, it looked really snazzy. Grrr... for her teacher.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Interesting thread. I guess I was a weird kid. I got a kick out of trying to color inside the lines. I'd zone out, focusing on the fine line between inside and outside. I enjoyed picking colors that seemed to be 'right' for the object. lol! I think that's part of my literal-mindedness.

However I don't think I ever urged my kids to color inside the lines, and heaven knows they certainly didn't. Perhaps I should have; they both struggle/struggled with neat hand writing.


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## Neera (Jul 15, 2007)

No.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journeymom*
> 
> Interesting thread. I guess I was a weird kid. I got a kick out of trying to color inside the lines. I'd zone out, focusing on the fine line between inside and outside. I enjoyed picking colors that seemed to be 'right' for the object. lol! I think that's part of my literal-mindedness.


Oh me too! To this day, if I see an interesting black and white ad, unusual fonts, etc. in a magazine, I want to color it. Just thinking about the percision and filling in those colors relaxes me.

My DS is struggling with his writing. On one hand, I know he will catch up eventually. On the other, it really, really bothers him that he can't do it as well as the other kids. Encouraging him to color within the lines solely for the motor skills development was suggested to me by an occupational therapist as well as his teacher, both who are creative, fun people that use "within the line" coloring as a developmental tool.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caneel*
> 
> My DS is struggling with his writing. On one hand, I know he will catch up eventually. On the other, it really, really bothers him that he can't do it as well as the other kids. Encouraging him to color within the lines solely for the motor skills development was suggested to me by an occupational therapist as well as his teacher, both who are creative, fun people that use "within the line" coloring as a developmental tool.


I think there is a big difference between:

Class, here is a colouring page - all pictures need to be done between the lines or you will have to redo it

and

John, I know you are struggling a bit with messy handwriting. Your teacher and I thought up so cool ways to improve your fine motor control - mazes, colouring neatly, etc.

One is imposing your aesthetics on their artistic expression, the other is offering colouring neatly as a tool for a person struggling with fine motor issues. I would even separate out normal colouring (where one can do what one wants) from colouring to improve fine-motor control. It is similar to writing - writing in diaries is personal and no one gets to comment on it; while assignments and the like people do get to comment on. Some colouring is personal and should be left comment free, while others might be for specific purposes (such as fine-motor skills colouring).


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> I think there is a big difference between:
> 
> ...


Oh, yes, I absolutely agree.

We are drowning in art at home and I love all of the stuff he creates. OT but what do you all do with all those pictures/creations?


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caneel*
> 
> We are drowning in art at home and I love all of the stuff he creates. OT but what do you all do with all those pictures/creations?


I have recycled most. I feel bad about it, but we have issues with too much stuff in our house.

I do put some on the wall and keep some of the cooler stuff in boxes (perhaps 1/10 for my non arty kids to 1/100 for my 8 year old who produced an average of 10 drawings a day!)

some people photograph stuff they love but do not want to keep.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

I try to spin it to him that giving it as gifts to Nana, Aunt Judy and so and so (all who flip over this type of stuff) would make them very happy so he does "gift" some of it. I need a day to myself to purge. (God forbid he see me get rid of anything!)


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## tooraloora (Oct 15, 2010)

I keep one small box for DD's artwork. Ever so often, I have DD sort through her newer stuff and what's in the box, and she picks and chooses enough to refill the box, and then the rest goes through the paper shredder to be used either for packing material, papier-mâché, paper clay, or homemade paper. I emphasis that it's going on to serve a new purpose instead of just being trashed, and she's totally on board with that.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

We gave our kids a wall that they put all their Art on. When they need space they take stuff down. I haven't had to tell them to do that. I guess they just get it. Maybe not though I found a hand drawn picture handing in the bathroom the other day because of space. meh...


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

We're only in first grade so it hasn't become too big an issue yet, but we let him choose three things from his school portfolio each term and dad and I each pick one, and then we either frame them, laminate them, or scan them and send them as gifts or hang them up with the family pictures.


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## Emmeline II (Feb 16, 2006)

This is a little OT, but about teachers having narrow expectations...

When ds was in K he was supposed to draw a picture of the children in the class. Ds drew a picture of a bus with a bunch of children in it, all with straight mouths; ds' teacher seemed concerned about this so dh asked ds why the children in the picture all had straight mouths, ds said that when he drew the picture none of the children in class were smiling







.

I have dd color in the lines for homework (though this still results in an entirely brown house, instead of a brown roof and different color walls







) but that is the only time I comment on it. She loves her coloring books but usually draws on blank paper. She (and ds) also has a box in her closet for her drawings; when the box starts overflowing I'll thin it out, though I keep ones in the box I know she really likes and some I keep in my box of their drawings.

Though the "rules" on coloring drawing affected ds for awhile ("I have to make it colorful!"), they actually helped him develop an interest in drawing/art--ds tends to be reluctant to try new things or tasks he perceives as difficult.


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## maself (Oct 19, 2011)

I think it depends on the child and the situation. If the child is doing his/her best, then NO. If he just scribbles b/c he doesn't want to do the coloring page, then I would have the child do his/her best. At times, we ALLL have to do things we don't want/like to do and I think it is important for children to learn too.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maself*
> 
> I think it depends on the child and the situation. If the child is doing his/her best, then NO. If he just scribbles b/c he doesn't want to do the coloring page, then I would have the child do his/her best. At times, we ALLL have to do things we don't want/like to do and I think it is important for children to learn too.


I am going to do the dishes in a few minutes and I do not really want to, lol.

I have to say, though, all activities I do at home are choices, and are done because they serve a purpose I know about. I do dishes so we do not attract vermin, so we have clean plates to eat off of, etc.

At work I do have a few tasks that I do not want to do, but do it anyways. I know the rationale even if i do not agree with, it -and I like my paycheck, lol. Working is a choice, though.

I do not have serious issues with colouring within the lines to help with fine motor skills - but it should be explained to the child this way. Otherwise, it just comes across as controlling for no good reason (which I have issues with - but maybe some do not?)

I think life has enough things we have to do naturally that we do not have to create other one. She may have to clean her room, for example.

Lastly, I do not expect my kids to do their best all the time. Perfectionism can be stress inducing and crippling - it is far better, I think, for kids to learn that sometimes we do try our best, and sometimes good enough is good enough. Sometimes we move forward by risk taking and creativity and not following societies pre-ordained lines rules.

I have nothing against colouring in the lines if kids want to, btw. Some people are built that way, and I do not think it makes them uncreative or perfectionist. I usually colour between the lines...I find it soothing, actually. I just do not impose it on anyone else.

edited to add: Welcome to MDC!


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

When my kids are running around like crazy, and they are tired and need supper, and I *know* that as long as no one decides to have an attitude they enjoy coloring....

And I get the stuff out, and tell them to go make a picture, and ds grabs a crayon, any crayon, and scribbles all over the page and then brings it to me and says he's done...and THEN goes on to pester his sisters again...

Well, yeah, he HAS to color. And he has to do a nice job. And if he picks a coloring page, he has to try to stay in the lines at that point.

Why? Because he's just being difficult otherwise, and that kind of thing, from any topic, isn't okay in our house. It's disrespectful and rude.

In general, in a well meaning, or even tired kid, a "sloppy" picture is fine. It's what they are at the time. But if I sense what they "are" at the time is a stinker...well...you can go be a stinker in the other room...but you aren't going to waste paper and be rude in here.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Nope. Coloring in the lines is great, if you have no desire to be a creative person. Or as so many previous posters mentioned, it is useful if you want to practice fine motor skills - while at the same time killing the creative and artistic spirit. Otherwise it is quite useless.

Unless you WANT and NEED to color in the lines. And ONLY the artist knows if he or she wants or needs to color inside the lines, or outside the lines, or have no lines at all. The artist can be 5 or 50. It is still their choice. Why are kids coloring inside lines at all? A blank piece of paper is vastly more open to new ideas and drawings than a pre-made image that needs to be draw in some specific way. I am an artist. Currently showing 5 paintings in a museum here, and I can tell you that NOT being pressured to draw inside the lines is a great thing. I can color inside the lines when I need to. But at least they are MY lines. Which makes all the difference in the world.


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## kayleesmom (Dec 16, 2004)

no i dont push them to color in the lines.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllisonR*
> 
> Nope. Coloring in the lines is great, if you have no desire to be a creative person. Or as so many previous posters mentioned, it is useful if you want to practice fine motor skills - while at the same time killing the creative and artistic spirit. Otherwise it is quite useless.
> 
> Unless you WANT and NEED to color in the lines. And ONLY the artist knows if he or she wants or needs to color inside the lines, or outside the lines, or have no lines at all. The artist can be 5 or 50. It is still their choice. Why are kids coloring inside lines at all? A blank piece of paper is vastly more open to new ideas and drawings than a pre-made image that needs to be draw in some specific way. I am an artist. Currently showing 5 paintings in a museum here, and I can tell you that NOT being pressured to draw inside the lines is a great thing. I can color inside the lines when I need to. But at least they are MY lines. Which makes all the difference in the world.


Oh good grief.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tropicana*
> 
> but is there a real virtue to coloring neatly / in the lines? just curious. thanks for your opinions.


yes. Fine motor skill practice. It's not just the man trying to squash your snowflake's creativity.


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## FarmerBeth (Mar 9, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> I am going to do the dishes in a few minutes and I do not really want to, lol.
> 
> ...


I think keeping the purpose of an exercise in mind really matters, too. When the children are in art class, working on a cover page, a major class project, etc, it makes sense to put extra effort into being presentable. When my son's math teacher asks him to color a math page and grumbles about "scribble scrabble" because he had difficulty coloring in the itsy bitsy lines on the worksheet border, that's another matter. Similarly, why is a math question marked incorrectly if the answer is right but the number 6 is backward. Neatness counts, but it shouldn't over-ride the actual point at hand. (real teacher I'm on a grumble about right now)


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FarmerBeth*
> 
> I think keeping the purpose of an exercise in mind really matters, too. When the children are in art class, working on a cover page, a major class project, etc, it makes sense to put extra effort into being presentable. When my son's math teacher asks him to color a math page and grumbles about "scribble scrabble" because he had difficulty coloring in the itsy bitsy lines on the worksheet border, that's another matter. Similarly, why is a math question marked incorrectly if the answer is right but the number 6 is backward. Neatness counts, but it shouldn't over-ride the actual point at hand. (real teacher I'm on a grumble about right now)


I agree. I also think if a child makes the same mistake in a given piece three times it should not be counted as three separate mistakes. That's just mean.

But that's another issue.

I agree with Kathy Muggle. I would say that generally in primary education we assume children cannot understand the reasons for why they are asked to do things and so they say "because I said so." or "Because those are the instructions." and I think, especially if the child comes from a home of teachers, where his parents explain the purpose and objective of nearly everything they do...they need it to decide whether they should do their best in that moment or do what they can given the time allotted, or do what they need to meet the objectives of the assessment in order to save mental or physical energy for something more important, or think of alternative ways for them to demonstrate the skill or knowledge being assessed.

I don't always do my best in EVERYTHING either, and I don't think prioritizing EVERYTHING that way is a good idea in terms of time management, or coping with stress.

It's a nice idea in theory, and I know my parents used to say the same to me, and sure we shouldn't purposefully do things poorly, but to always put our all into every single thing we do? That's a little over the top. I remember the day I discovered this when I was about 6 or 7 and I was suitably skeptical of my parents reasons for telling me this. It doesn't really make sense when you think it through. For example...sometimes it can be beneficial to learn how to appear to do things poorly, (like data entry and filing, or manual labor, or *ahem* dishes) especially if you find them to be joyless soul sucking tasks, so that you can justify delegating them to someone else who does enjoy it, or avoid having it delegated to you, and allow you to showcase the talents you have that truly bring you joy with more emphasis. If you are excellent at everything, or always give 100% to everything it will be more difficult for people to see where you TRULY shine.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> yes. Fine motor skill practice. It's not just the man trying to squash your snowflake's creativity.


Sarcasm aside, shouldn't a teacher be explicitly communicating this so that students can offer alternative methods of demonstrating and building these skills and so parents understand the reasoning behind the activity? It's like my son with his dance classes at school. He LOVES to dance,he was so excited, but he HATES choreography. The teacher wouldn't let them have in a 45 minute class even 5 minutes of free movement dance. Essentially it was coloring in the lines with the body. It was all steps and synchronicity. Why? She refused to tell him or me (it's the way we teach it here was the answer) I had to call a meeting with the head of the pre-school and his class tutor to find out it was to "Develop Gross motor skills". Why take something a child may love and grind it into rote mechanics just because some kids may get something out of it? Why not be creative and open minded about it and allow those who dance for fun to dance for fun and offer another way to develop those skills, like football, or gymnastics, or Karate or Yoga or....I mean really is the list exhaustive? Is it really the only and best way and non-negotiable? I think teachers should offer the exercises to those who like that method, but offer alternatives for those who don't. There is always more than one way to skin a cat.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

One size does not fit all!


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> yes. Fine motor skill practice. It's not just the man trying to squash your snowflake's creativity.


But I like my snowflakes to sparkle!

OT: The root of disagreement is not necessarily thinking our kids are extra special snowflakes. Many reasons are given above as to why some people do not like the whole "colouring between the lines" thing. The snowflake comment is a little dismissive.

Lastly, and because I cannot resist.....I might be judged snowflakey, but insisting kids colour in the lines is helicopter-y


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## croleRN (Apr 6, 2006)

Firstly, I have to say a big THANK YOU to the Mods for putting my beautiful Sophie on the home page for this discussion.









Next - we encourage both - coloring in the lines if the kiddos desire to - there is merit to fine motor skill practice. I also encourage them to free draw - both on blank paper & other. I have seen my girls (4y& 8y) find a sense of accomplishment by "neatly coloring in the lines." But we also discuss -- how it is ok to color outside the lines sometimes & FANTASTIC - to make your own lines.


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## rush2ady (Nov 16, 2010)

As an artist here's my 2 cents worth. I believe there is some confusion (in the world in general, not only on this thread!) about skill versus creativity. I teach a few students as well, and yes, in art class I do expect them to color within the lines. But the context I'm teaching is fine art which requires great skill and master manipulation. These are skills which can be learned and practiced just as any other skill. There is a difference in someone scribbling because they seek to achieve a certain effect, versus someone who is only scribbling because they have no skills to do otherwise.

If a person has a foundation of skills, they can express their creativity in powerful ways.

Teaching art skills is not stifling creativity, but rather opens the door to creativity. Creativity cannot be taught, it is inherent within all of us. You might look at someone like Picasso. Many of his works were more abstract and expressive, rather than realistic. And very unique and original for his day. He had a strong foundation of training and was a highly skilled artist. His training enabled him to access a level of creativity that I'm certain would not have been achieved by a lesser skilled artist.

Of course, as with any subject, art should be taught with great sensitivity and care. It's sad in any situation to make any child feel his/her efforts are wrong and not good enough. There is a huge difference between gentle encouragement and instruction, and outright criticism.

Think of it this way...would you take your child to music lessons, then be upset the child was expected to hold their fingers in certain positions? Would you claim the requirement to keep time with the metronome is stifling their creativity? Yet someone who knows the "rules" of making music can use that ability to express powerful emotions and move others to tears with the beauty of it. And of course have the ability to create their own music!

I'm surprised to see art reduced to an exercise in fine motor skills. It is so much more! I think you gals know this. But sometimes I feel there is little appreciation of the years of study and effort an artist puts in to produce great work. Even in doing my taxes this past year, I became totally upset with the accountant because he dismissed my work as a hobby and refused to acknowledge it as a business. In taxes there is a huge difference between hobbies and professions. He wasn't taking me seriously as a professional because I'm an artist, not a "real" professional. It was infuriating and deeply insulting. I fired him and did Turbo tax 

If you have a problem with the teacher being too critical and controlling of your child's work, I hope you realize it's a flaw in the teacher, not inherent to teaching art. There are good art teachers out there who don't humiliate their students, but rather truly help them become better artists.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


> If you have a problem with the teacher being too critical and controlling of your child's work, I hope you realize it's a flaw in the teacher, not inherent to teaching art.


I think that has been expressed a few times, but just to reiterate. I agree with this. But, I don't think it's art class people are complaining about. It's the seemingly pointless coloring that is done and never explained or discussed, just used to categorize kids as good or bad students. Coloring in my child's school, for example is never in the context of art class. In art class they experiment with different materials, canvasses, dimensions, and rarely use it as a medium for fine motor skills (it is actually the one place my son would probably enjoy practicing coloring in the lines). They are taught it in the context of handwriting class and what appears to be free coloring time.

I went to art school and studied illustration, and I am all for teaching kids the skills for arts, but there is a context for everything and for some people art really will just be a hobby and they don't want to be super good at it, they just want to have fun and dabble and do it their way. I don't think that diminishes from the social attitude about professional artists anymore than my dancing Salsa on the weekends takes away from the seriousness of the Ballet, or karaoke bars takes away from the Opera. Some people color because they want to learn how to be great artists, some do it because it's soothing, some do it because they enjoy watching a picture come to life, some do it to practice the fine art of detailed line work. There are a multitude of styles and none of them are right.

So, just to be clear...A) the bee in the bonnet is the lack of explanation from teachers, many of whom seem to think they do not owe us or our children an explanation for why they coerce our children into doing any number of things, and B) criteria that allows for differentiation of input, output, learning styles, ability, etc. I used to ignore the lines in school and color my own pictures on top of the handouts and got a lot of frowny faces in my time. If someone had told me WHY I had to color in the lines, I might have complied. It's not the activity most people have a problem with, it's the lack of information and the lack of differentiation.


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## rush2ady (Nov 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hakeber*
> 
> They are taught it in the context of handwriting class and what appears to be free coloring time.
> 
> So, just to be clear...A) the bee in the bonnet is the lack of explanation from teachers, many of whom seem to think they do not owe us or our children an explanation for why they coerce our children into doing any number of things, and B) criteria that allows for differentiation of input, output, learning styles, ability, etc. I used to ignore the lines in school and color my own pictures on top of the handouts and got a lot of frowny faces in my time. If someone had told me WHY I had to color in the lines, I might have complied. It's not the activity most people have a problem with, it's the lack of information and the lack of differentiation.


I absolutely agree with this. If a child is given a free-time activity, it should be a relaxing time for them to do whatever they want with it, free of restrictions and requirements, and a break from their usual studies.

To treat art as a "filler" non-important activity, meant just for fun, and THEN make exacting requirements of it...

I see your point how frustrating this would be to a child.

I had a student who it became apparent was never allowed to do anything outside of what her mother told her to do. She couldn't make even the smallest mark on her paper without her mother coming over to "correct" her. The results were disastrous for the child, she had no confidence in her own ability and was constantly looking to me or her mom for approval with every single line she made. It was the one time I wished I did not allow parents to stay in class! I finally had to tell the mom to back off.

I think this issue is not about art, or any particular subject, but rather a control issue. Needing to make the child do things a certain way, just coz that's how you want it done, and how you would do it yourself. Perhaps the teacher doesn't know other ways of presenting the material, but again the flaw is the teacher for not exploring other methods. Unfortunately, many people don't want to know of their weakness in something, and are unwilling to rethink the way they present material. The teacher might not HAVE a reason for doing things a certain way, other than it's the only way they themselves know, so therefore it's the "right" way. I think if asking a person to do something, an explanation of why is reasonable! But perhaps the teacher does not know why, and is doing it out of rote. Or doesn't want to be bothered with giving explanations, but rather merely obeyed. To require them to give an explanation stabs at their insecurities and makes them think you're questioning their competence.

There is a elderly woman named Ruth Stout whose beautiful mini-biography is on youtube. I love her story, because she describes how she ended up gardening on her own terms, not letting others tell her what to do (she talks of gardening, but really her attitude can be applied to anything!). And her parents knew how to instill a confidence in her rather than imposing themselves. If you have a chance to watch it, it's really great at clarifying the difference between having a controlling attitude versus a "live and let live" attitude. She didn't color inside the lines, as you all put it


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rush2ady*
> 
> To require them to give an explanation stabs at their insecurities and makes them think *you're questioning their competence. *


That's probably because I am.









On a side note: I am glad that they teach art in my son's school as a separate and real subject in all its complexities and don't count coloring sheets as "art". Art is a whole subject not just a filler.


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## Murph12334 (Nov 12, 2003)

Well coming from a parent who has 2 art related degrees no I do not require coloring in the lines. However, normally I do color right along with my children. They see me coloring in the lines and do it as well. But we also do plenty of free form coloring with just a blank sheet of paper. Again I will draw as well with them. They see what mommy is drawing and I encourage them to draw what they want. I try to explain how to think about and get a picture in your head of what you want on your paper then draw it that way. At least that works for my kids. And then it's not just them asking me to draw what they want and draw it my way.

People like to think that to be creative and to draw you have to have a complete open and free mind. That you don't have to follow pattern or lines or anything. When in fact most masters of art were not taught that way. In fact most masters were taught my copying other works. Copying then isn't as it's seen now.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rush2ady*
> 
> As an artist here's my 2 cents worth. I believe there is some confusion (in the world in general, not only on this thread!) about skill versus creativity. I teach a few students as well, and yes, in art class I do expect them to color within the lines. But the context I'm teaching is fine art which requires great skill and master manipulation. These are skills which can be learned and practiced just as any other skill. There is a difference in someone scribbling because they seek to achieve a certain effect, versus someone who is only scribbling because they have no skills to do otherwise.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

All the stories about people giving up on art because their colouring wasn't praised enough made me wonder if they gave up on every other subject when a teacher criticized them. Those stories are just as bad as stories about kids who think they can't do math because a teacher told them they don't have aptitude for it. Bad teaching is the problem, not a particular activity. I don't agree at all with belittling a child in any endeavour and an adult who would harshly criticize colouring would also make a child feel bad for not getting the right answers on a math test.

If colouring books are the single type of activity that a child is allowed, then I agree that would be a problem. I have never encountered a child who was limited like that, but maybe they are out there. Again, it's bad instruction to limit opportunities to a single kind of activity.

I think that "colouring between the lines" is often used to judge whether a parent is too mainstream or whether they are crunchy enough. It's a catchy kind of quick test people use and it's entirely bogus.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ollyoxenfree*
> 
> I think that "colouring between the lines" is often used to judge whether a parent is too mainstream or whether they are crunchy enough. It's a catchy kind of quick test people use and it's entirely bogus.


I would disagree. I think the "we insist they colour between the lines" is a catchy kind of quick test for how determining how controlling adults are. I know of a number of online types who restrict tv, junk food, etc, etc - often to the point I find too controlling, yet they are certainly crunchy.

I actually find both sides of the argument somewhat bogus.

1. yes - colouring promotes fine motor skills. So do other activities. How many of you genuinely need to promote colouring in the lines to promote fine motor skills? Few, I bet.

2. Insisting on colouring in the lines is not creative. But then - colouring books are not overly creative anyways. None the less, I have owned them, my kids have played with them, they are not the Devil's Work. I do not think a parent telling a child to colour in the lines is necessarily going to hamper their creative skills for life (although I do have 2 family members who were put off art and they do blame poor teaching) but simply because it will not hamper them for life does not make it a good idea, either.

I really think the colouring wars debate is about whether we insist kids conform to societies rules. Is colouring a good litmus test of this? Probably not. No "one" activity is. But I suspect that is what we are arguing about or we would not be on post 63.


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## tropicana (Sep 11, 2011)

OP here: i guess i was referring to coloring as a "busy" activity for little kids at places like the library or the park district waiting rooms, for the younger sibs to have "something to do" while they wait for their older sibs to do their library or park district classes. and/or i see it as an activity the teachers of these classes give to the students, ie., after ballet class, my daughter gets a coloring sheet of a ballerina as a "handout." she doesn't enjoy coloring.

i do see the parents of the younger sibs in the waiting rooms admonishing their 3-4 year olds to "color in the lines" while the kids are simply passing time waiting for big brother, big sister to finish their class.

this i do not do. i don't see the point.

although i do get the point about fine motor skills, which my daughter has lagged in. her kindergarten teacher has them coloring in the lines for homework and i have impressed upon her the point of it being an exercise to help her learn to write neatly, and urge her to take her time and do a really good job in order to impress the teacher.

she is improving, slowly but surely.

thanks for all the feedback. hot topic!


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tropicana*
> 
> OP here: i guess i was referring to coloring as a "busy" activity for little kids at places like the library or the park district waiting rooms, for the younger sibs to have "something to do" while they wait for their older sibs to do their library or park district classes. and/or i see it as an activity the teachers of these classes give to the students, ie., after ballet class, my daughter gets a coloring sheet of a ballerina as a "handout." she doesn't enjoy coloring.
> 
> ...


So these are parents and children that you don't really know? And you don't know their circumstances? And you don't know whether these children have neuromotor issues and might be working on fine motor skills?

You may not see the point, but since they aren't your children, their parents possibly do have one. I wouldn't judge.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> I would disagree. I think the "we insist they colour between the lines" is a catchy kind of quick test for how determining how controlling adults are. I know of a number of online types who restrict tv, junk food, etc, etc - often to the point I find too controlling, yet they are certainly crunchy.
> 
> ...


I think you have a good point that insisting on colouring between the lines and belittling if the child doesn't is over-controlling. I also agree that there are an awful lot of crunchy types who have huge control issues. But generally, just possessing a colouring book is typically used as an indicator of conformity - and isn't that the definition of "mainstream"?


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## treeoflife3 (Nov 14, 2008)

We un coloring book so my toddler just has plain paper to color on. No lines to require she stay in. However, I can definitely envision times where trying to stay in the lines will be encouraged. Coloring is the first step to learning to right. It's all about learning to control your hands. I don't think encouraging your kids to try and stay in the line is necessarily wrong at all times.

It really comes down to when and how you tell your kid to stay in the lines. Drawing just to pass time? doesn't really need to stay in lines. Telling them they HAVE to or the picture won't look good? silly. Working on a specific project or trying to make a game of staying in the lines? makes sense to me.

Ultimately, most kids move to coloring in the lines anyway. It looks nicer. Kids usually move to creating their own art altogether if they want something more creative than filling in pre drawn pictures, in line or out.

In a preschool setting where kids are learning how to write their names and the alphabet, it makes perfect sense to move them towards staying in the lines. if they can stay in the lines, they'll have better control and will be able to make U and V look different rather than like both are the same letter. Art is a creative outlet but it can also be used as a tool to teach. If you are using it as a tool to teach, it WILL come with rules.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tropicana*
> 
> OP here: i guess i was referring to coloring as a "busy" activity for little kids at places like the library or the park district waiting rooms, for the younger sibs to have "something to do" while they wait for their older sibs to do their library or park district classes. and/or i see it as an activity the teachers of these classes give to the students, ie., after ballet class, my daughter gets a coloring sheet of a ballerina as a "handout." she doesn't enjoy coloring.
> 
> ...


I don't either.

I tend to think insisting on colouring neatly has more to do with compliance and teaching them societies expectation than anything else. However, who am I to say that is wrong for anyone beyond my family?

Just to play devil's advocate - colouring in the lines develops patience, attention to detail and care, neat work habit - and their teachers will love it in the future! (my DD (age 12) is expected to colour her projects neatly in order to get full marks for presentation).


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:
nm - just agreeing with some of the stuff Murph12334 said.

I do think teaching art might have formulas and techniques (which people may then go on to break) but that is a very different topic than someone insisting their kids colour in the lines in a waiting room.


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## tropicana (Sep 11, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ollyoxenfree*
> 
> So these are parents and children that you don't really know? And you don't know their circumstances? And you don't know whether these children have neuromotor issues and might be working on fine motor skills?
> 
> You may not see the point, but since they aren't your children, their parents possibly do have one. I wouldn't judge.


they are parents that i DO KNOW.

sheeze.

i get admonished all the time for "judging" on MDC.

i would say that people on MDC have a habit of "judging" posters, accusing them of "judging."


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tropicana*
> 
> they are parents that i DO KNOW.
> 
> ...


Everyone judges. Find one person anywhere who doesn't. *What* we judge and how defines us. *How* we pass that judgment determines our character. Some people are more judgmental than others. Some groups are more vocal regarding their judgments than others. Some groups are defined specifically by the judgments they make. We, all of us, are different, but we all make judgments.

Count this as a judgment on judging the judgers who are being unfairly judged by the judgmental.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I pretty much say color as you like. If they want to make it look nice and neat then go for it. We actually practice penmen ship in our house but coloring is for fun. I've been teaching my 8 year calligraphy and her writing is getting beautiful. DD2 I think still eats glue... I kid!


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SweetSilver*
> 
> Count this as a judgment on judging the judgers who are being unfairly judged by the judgmental.


Totally OT: thanks for a great laugh. You made my day.


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## mountainmom2011 (Nov 8, 2011)

With dd#1 who is 8 yo now, she never cared for coloring and in kindergarten her teacher would send notes home about her need to be neater with her coloring. I never said anything to my dd b/c I knew she didn't like it and she's rather creative and I didn't want to stifle that. DD#1 had fine motor issues and so it was hard for her. I found other ways to work on her fine motor skills (dot-to-dots and mazes).

With dd#2 who is 5 and in kindergarten her coloring ability is really good. It's quite impressive for a kindie but most importantly she likes to color and she likes coloring books. But that's the kind of kid she is, she's an 'in the lines' kind of kid and I don't push her to do it.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Not sure if this was already said (slow computer won't let me read all the replies), but I find that when children create their own art, they naturally color in the lines.

But no, I would never suggest that my children color within the lines because I see no benefit. There are a million other ways to develop fine motor skills . . .like drawing.

RE: What to do with all of the art, this has been on my mind lately, too! I think I am just going to let more and more of it go because I can't imagine the kids would want to have a huge collection of their work following them for the rest of their lives. So sad to get rid of it, though!


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