# If you have an older kids in a harness...



## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

I've read a few posts recently that mention children 6,7 and even 8 years old still riding in seats with a 5 point harness, such as a Regent.

I know that a seat like this is safer than a booster, but I'm curious how it works in your family. My daughter was one of the only kids I knew in a carseat after her 4th b-day. All our friends from play group, preschool, gymnastics etc had their kids in boosters as soon as they hit 4 yrs/40 pounds as required bu our state law.

My rule was she could move to a booster when she was too tall for her Marathon and that happened a few months after her 5th birthday. For more than 6 months she was upset every time she got in her seat; complaining it was for babies. We ride share with friends often in our car or theirs and she hated being in her "baby" seat wen they were in their booster.

My friends kids who are 6/7/8 go on field trips often at school and I can't imagine a child past the age of 6 (maybe 7) showing up with a booster, let alone a car seat.

I'm torn because I feel strongly about car safety. My kids rear faced til the limits on their seats, will stay harnessed till they outgrow their Britax marathons, and I purchased a booster with true side impact protection.

I know it is best for kids to be harnessed as long as possible and then in a booster till they are around 4'8 which could be between 9-12 years old.

However I also know that if I tried to booster a 10 year old 4th grader it could be humiliating when every friend has been out of a booster since they were 6.

How do you balance safety vs. your kids feelings.

Obviously it would be safest if we drove less, but due to where we live, that is not an option. We drive every day, alot.


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

I don't make my parenting decisions based on what other families do. My kids will be in appropriate child safety restraints for as long as they need them. My son is on the tall side so he may well be out of a booster at 8 or 9, but I can easily see my daughter still needing one at 10 years old.

Safety is not an issue I compromise. As a CPST, I also do a lot of educating


----------



## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

We are starting to deal with this. Dd is 6.5 but only 40lbs so she is still in her harness. She did mention the other day that her best friend only has a booster. When I showed her the Nautilus (I'd like her to stay harnessed longer) she was upset that it looked like a baby seat. I showed her some pics on carseat.org that moms had posted of big kids in harnesses. She's the youngest of her friends and she's afraid of being the baby. I just keep explaining to her that the harness is the very safest thing. My brother worked on a race team for awhile so I have also pointed out that the race car drivers use 5pt harnesses because they are so safe. That seemed to help a little too. Good luck!


----------



## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

My DD1 is 5y old, she just outgrew her MA, and is in no way mature enough for a booster. I have a Parkway that I bought just to have, she can't even sit still in it while the van is in the driveway.







And at only 33 lbs, it will be years before she is 40 lbs. So we have acquired a collection of regents since she does ride with DH, grandma... frequently. She has commented about her being in a 5 point harness while most of her friends are not. I have to say that I started early telling her that she was safest in a car seat, and would be riding in the Regent until it was outgrown so it wasn't a surprise to her. I tell her that all families are different, we name some differences between our family and others we know (like we do TV and some friends don't), and that car safety is very important to our family.

Still... the other day she put her hands up in the Regent and said it was getting too small. Nice try DD1.


----------



## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

I've showed AJ the crash test videos before comparing harnessing and a booster. I didn't do it on purpose, I was reviewing them and he wanted to see as well so I used it as a teaching moment. There are videos out there showing what it looks like to be in a seatbelt too soon as well instead of a booster and the side impact crashes as well. All of this has to be balanced for your child though b/c you don't want them to become scared of the car, but you want them informed and to understand to some degree why you make the decisions you do. In our house, I want the kids to be at least 6 before using a booster full time. AJ shouldn't outgrow his current seat till probably 6.5yo I'm guessing and then we'll reevaluate what seats are out there, I'll talk to him etc. Evan needs to be at least 35# before using a booster at all, and for him that will be age 6+ at this point so he's stuck in a harnessed seat no matter his age, lol. Ilana is following in his footsteps. There are things you can balance like maybe using a backless booster when her friends are there, and most definitely having extra booster for friends in the car who need them etc. Most kids LIKE using seats, it's the parents who complain and make such a big deal about it that they just take on their attitude.


----------



## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

My 5 yr. old is in a Regent and will be for probably 2 years until he outgrows it. He knows it's the safest. He's looking forward to riding in a booster when he's older but he knows he'll be 7 before he outgrows the Regent. He doesn't ride in other cars at this point, but if he needed to (carpooling somewhere), I would be okay with him in a good booster at this point for short trips. Actually, maybe I'd buy a Nautilus if that came up (untethering/doing the locking clip/etc on the Regent is too much work to move it). We unschool, so he doesn't go on field trips, but if it was in a bus, they don't need (nor can they use, generally) a carseat. We ride the bus and of course don't take carseats or wear seatbelts.


----------



## calynde (Feb 11, 2005)

My ds is 5 and was already complaining about the baby-like seat and being uncomfortable, etc. We live in Europe, and there are essentially no seats that harness over 40 pounds...some studies on this side of the pond have found it to be even slightly less safe to harness larger children for whatever reason.







: Anyway, the test winners over here for that size/age group are boosters with side impact protection and LATCH/Isofix...so we ended up going with that system to stay within EU standards. We also have a very safe car in general.

It confuses me to no end how different the standards can be!


----------



## sweetcheeks (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
I don't make my parenting decisions based on what other families do. My kids will be in appropriate child safety restraints for as long as they need them. My son is on the tall side so he may well be out of a booster at 8 or 9, but I can easily see my daughter still needing one at 10 years old.

Safety is not an issue I compromise. As a CPST, I also do a lot of educating

















: (minus the CPST part, as I'm not one







)

DS is almost 5 and still harnessed in his Radian. He has never once said anything, negative or positive, about it. He does have a booster (Compass B505) for the grandparents car but he so rarely rides in there and it's for short jaunts around town that it didn't make financial sense for us to drop $200 on a car seat he'll only use occassionally. And he knows how important it is when he's in the booster to sit up nicely, no wiggling, slouching, etc. Anyway, he did ask once why he had a booster in gma and gpa's car and not in ours. I just explained to him that w/all the driving we do in our car that we want him to be as safe as possible and that meant being in a harnessed seat. He was fine w/that explanation and hasn't said anything about it again.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I don't make safety decisions based on peer pressure. Period.

If she was 16 and riding with friends and was *embarrassed* because her mom insisted she wear a seatbelt and none of her friends did we would all say tough luck.

Same thing.

-Angela


----------



## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

Well my kids don't swim without adult supervision, it doesn't really matter if their friends do.

Ds will be 7 next month, and is still in a Regent, dd is 4.5 and we just moved her to one. They know they are safer and that in the car we are as safe as possible.

For us the whole carpool thing really doesn't come up. I rarely take other kids anywhere, I'm not comfortable with it, and honestly there are very few people that I trust with my kids life in their car. Maybe I'm just overerly paranoid.

At one point when ds was around 4-5 he did ask for a bigger seat (he was in a Marathon), so we got the Regent. He didn't say he wanted to be in a regular seat or a booster, just a bigger seat.

Around here car seats really aren't seen as important, I'd say at least half of the kids in dd's preschool are in boosters and just watching them in the parking lot makes me cringe, they are moving all over the place.


----------



## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

We haven't hit this issue yet. Maybe it won't be that big a deal; we have plenty of friends who "get" that kids should be in 5-pt. harnesses as long as they meet the height/weight requirements.

But... I've thought about the general issue, especially at the supermarket ;-) when I'm watching other people's kids romp around in the shopping cart basket instead of being in the kid seat. I know it's just a matter of time before I get asked why DS can't be in the big basket. And the answer is, "It's not safe." And if he asks why other kids can be there when he can't, the honest answer is... that child's parents are not keeping him/her safe. We can't know why they made that decision, but they did. Mommy will not be making the same decision, because she feels that safety is very important, even if riding in the big basket looks like fun.

So there ya go. Truth is, some parents keep their kids safer than others. For our family, safety is highly valued, and so we will make decisions based on that, even if it means we're not having quite as much fun or we're spending a bit more money or things take a little longer. Other families make different decisions, and that's up to them... we look out for ourselves.


----------



## cancat (Jun 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I don't make safety decisions based on peer pressure. Period.

If she was 16 and riding with friends and was *embarrassed* because her mom insisted she wear a seatbelt and none of her friends did we would all say tough luck.

Same thing.

-Angela

Great example...


----------



## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:

I know it's just a matter of time before I get asked why DS can't be in the big basket. And the answer is, "It's not safe."
Sorry, I had to laugh. It's obvious you don't have 2 kids yet.







You shouldn't have a problem though either since your son is 3.5yo. I had 3 kids in 3.5 yrs, someone gets to ride in the big part, but they have to sit.


----------



## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
Sorry, I had to laugh. It's obvious you don't have 2 kids yet.







You shouldn't have a problem though either since your son is 3.5yo. I had 3 kids in 3.5 yrs, someone gets to ride in the big part, but they have to sit.









The store we go to the most has a few carts that have those step 2 cars attached to the front, so if we have one of those, he can ride in the car while the younger sibling goes in the kiddie basket. But frankly, DS spent most shopping trips on my back until he was a year old or more... so he'll be almost 5 before that's even an issue.

Still, even if my kids were 2 years apart, I just wouldn't do it. If I had to, I'd plan out shopping trips to only have one of them with me, or something, but I've seen too many kids who look much too small to do it tip over a full shopping cart. The combo of wheels and a general topheaviness just don't set well with me. Not to mention, if something DID happen, I'd know it was all my fault and feel terrible (plus we'd be paying all the hospital bills; the stores make it VERY clear that you're not supposed to do that).

Besides which, even with ONE kid, there isn't room in our cart for a passenger... it's full of groceries!


----------



## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
We haven't hit this issue yet. Maybe it won't be that big a deal; we have plenty of friends who "get" that kids should be in 5-pt. harnesses as long as they meet the height/weight requirements.

But... I've thought about the general issue, especially at the supermarket ;-) when I'm watching other people's kids romp around in the shopping cart basket instead of being in the kid seat. I know it's just a matter of time before I get asked why DS can't be in the big basket. And the answer is, "It's not safe." And if he asks why other kids can be there when he can't, the honest answer is... that child's parents are not keeping him/her safe. We can't know why they made that decision, but they did. Mommy will not be making the same decision, because she feels that safety is very important, even if riding in the big basket looks like fun.

So there ya go. Truth is, some parents keep their kids safer than others. For our family, safety is highly valued, and so we will make decisions based on that, even if it means we're not having quite as much fun or we're spending a bit more money or things take a little longer. Other families make different decisions, and that's up to them... we look out for ourselves.

You must have a skinny kid! The weight limit on those seats is only 35 lbs!
I let my toddler ride in the big part of the cart sometimes, in the seat others. The seat actually seems less safe to me, since it's so high up. Whenever he's in there I worry the cart will fall over and he'll break his skull. Especially if my 5 yr. old grabs onto the side of the cart! Whereas if he's in the basket, the center of balance is so low it just rolls if it gets grabbed or knocked into. Unfortunately, I usually need the basket for food!


----------



## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

I think there really ought to be some kind of weight limit too though. My SIL's 4'10" and usually 95lbs and a grown woman.


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hanno* 
I think there really ought to be some kind of weight limit too though. My SIL's 4'10" and usually 95lbs and a grown woman.

Why would you put a 'weight limit' on child safety? A 90 pound 7 year old is just as unsafe in a regular seatbelt as a 70 pound 7 year old. They both need to be in boosters.

Ironica, I had three kids in 2 years and 9 months. Someone always rides in the basket


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Oh, and if the seatbelt doesn't fit your SIL properly (and I would be surprised if it does!) she should be using a backless booster in the car


----------



## cognito (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm 5'3" & would love a backless booster because seatbelts almost never fit me correctly. Too bad they only go to 100#. I'm well we'll just say a bit over that limit. I lucked out that the vehicle I drive now has power seats that actually move up so I can make the seatbelt fit right.


----------



## riversong (Aug 11, 2005)

I haven't gotten there yet, but I'm not looking forward to the day when dd realizes that most (or all) of her peers are out of car seats or boosters.

I know that the mamas who care to post here are concerned with safety. Of course we wouldn't make our parenting decisions based on what other families do, but it seems like many posts are missing the issue of how the op can help her daughter deal with her feelings.

Can you start by letting her know that you hear her and you know what it's like for her to want to be the same as her friends? Maybe she can help you come up with a solution for how she can stay safe in her car seat, but feel less embarrassed about it.


----------



## J-Max (Sep 25, 2003)

My oldest is 9.5 and is just now, this week, tall enough to outgrow her booster. I will take it out this weekend, when I rearrange the seats - (#2's regent should be here tomorrow!).
We have had this conversation many, many times, and she will still occasionally ask why she is in a booster and NO ONE else her age has been for at least 2 years (this is true, we go to a really tiny school and I know all of them). She can actually quote what I will say once the conversation starts. It also brings up an easy way to talk about why we do things different in different families.

When my kids ask why we do something no one else does, or why it is not fair that they don't get something they want, we say "Our job as parents is to raise you to be a kind, caring, responsible adult, and that is why we do xyz"


----------



## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

DD1 is 5yrs old and still in a carseat with a harness. She hasn't ask about a booster or anything. Her sister is heavier than her and can use a booster and does in her grandparents's car/van but not in our van. DD1 doesn't question that either. Our carseats only goes up to 47lbs. So until then, Both dds will stay in their 5pts-harness.


----------



## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Why would you put a 'weight limit' on child safety? A 90 pound 7 year old is just as unsafe in a regular seatbelt as a 70 pound 7 year old. They both need to be in boosters.

Ironica, I had three kids in 2 years and 9 months. Someone always rides in the basket









oops, I meant age limit


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Oh, I see, although I don't agree









Anyone who doesn't the seatbelt properly should be in a booster.


----------



## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

We bought three SafeGuard seats for our son (for my car, dh's car and his grandparent's car - he is raised by a village







).

We bought them to replace the Britax Regents because he had outgrown those.

He will be four in April and his shoulders are almost too tall for the SafeGuards. I'm in shock! I wanted this seat to last him a good, long time because the 5pt. harness is really important to us.

DH and I have each been in car accidents and we know that because our seat belts didn't really hold us in like they should have we feel the effects of those accidents every day in our necks and backs. We want DS in the most safe and stable seat we can find.

I'm struggling with what our next option will be after he outgrows these.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cheshire* 
We bought three SafeGuard seats for our son (for my car, dh's car and his grandparent's car - he is raised by a village







).

We bought them to replace the Britax Regents because he had outgrown those.

He will be four in April and his shoulders are almost too tall for the SafeGuards. I'm in shock! I wanted this seat to last him a good, long time because the 5pt. harness is really important to us.

DH and I have each been in car accidents and we know that because our seat belts didn't really hold us in like they should have we feel the effects of those accidents every day in our necks and backs. We want DS in the most safe and stable seat we can find.

I'm struggling with what our next option will be after he outgrows these.

I thought that the regents were the highest strap height on the market? Do safeguards have higher strap slots?








:

How tall is he?

-Angela


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

I'm guessing it wasn't a Regent the child had outgrown. Maybe a Roundabout? He's only three. Regent has a taller slot height than a SafeGuard.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
I'm guessing it wasn't a Regent the child had outgrown. Maybe a Roundabout? He's only three. Regent has a taller slot height than a SafeGuard.

That's what I was thinking... hard to imagine a 4yr old outgrowing a regent, and I thought I remembered the SafeGuard doesn't really have very high slots.

-Angela


----------



## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

The Safeguard has about 19" slots so it wouldn't be taller than the Regent. Here's AJ in one last year, so about 15.25" torso. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1.../update002.jpg


----------



## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

Ack! You're right, it's not the Regent - it is the Boulevard. (I seem to always get them mixed up)

We bought the SafeGuard instead of the Regent because of the SIP. The difference in the heights is only half an inch (the Regent goes to 20" and the SafeGuard 19.5" according to carseatdata.org).

I measured him just the other day and he is 3' 7". His shoulders are just barely below the slots on the SafeGuard. Another growth spurt or two and his shoulders will be too high.

Any suggestions on where to go next???


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cheshire* 
Ack! You're right, it's not the Regent - it is the Boulevard. (I seem to always get them mixed up)

We bought the SafeGuard instead of the Regent because of the SIP. The difference in the heights is only half an inch (the Regent goes to 20" and the SafeGuard 19.5" according to carseatdata.org).

I measured him just the other day and he is 3' 7". His shoulders are just barely below the slots on the SafeGuard. Another growth spurt or two and his shoulders will be too high.

Any suggestions on where to go next???

Well, the regent is the only seat with higher straps. At his age I would not be comfortable in just a booster.

-Angela


----------



## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

My oldest will be 8 in May and still rides in a harnessed seat. When asked why she still rides in a "baby seat" she tells other kids that she's safer in a harness than in a booster. She has also been known to ask kids who scorn her riding in a "baby seat" why their parents don't want to keep them safe, too?

We don't make safety decisions in our family based on what other people do. Our kids all ride harnessed in the car, they are never unsupervised near water, they are not allowed to play out in the front yard without adult supervision, they don't go to peoples' homes that DH and I don't know extremely well, etc.

If I ever start to question myself about a particular decision, I ask myself "What If?" What if I let my 45lb almost-8-year-old ride in a booster and she submarines below the seatbelt in a major collision and dies, or becomes permanantly injured? I won't consciously make a decision that I could regret every day for the rest of my life where my kids are concerned.

There are going to be a LOT of peer pressure issues that come up for our family. We believe very strongly in modest dress, we will teach our children sexual abstinence until marriage, we believe in hard work being it's own reward, etc. Caving to peer pressure now doesn't set us up for a strong family belief foundation, in mine and DH's opinion.


----------



## jillmamma (Apr 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayleeZoo* 
My oldest will be 8 in May and still rides in a harnessed seat. When asked why she still rides in a "baby seat" she tells other kids that she's safer in a harness than in a booster. She has also been known to ask kids who scorn her riding in a "baby seat" why their parents don't want to keep them safe, too?

She sounds like a really cool kid!









DS is 5 (about 39-40 lb, and 43-44") and still rides in his Marathon in my car though he does sometimes use a Graco Turbobooster in his dad's car. He really could care less what "everybody" is doing though. Also, his best friend is about to turn 5, and also is still harnessed in a Radian, so that would help, even if he did care. I think we may have more of an issue with his sister, who at 2.5 is still only about 20 lb and 33" (she is rf of course in her Decathlon). I think she will be in her Decathlon till it expires!


----------



## cj'smommy (Aug 14, 2003)

DS#1 is in a Recaro Young Sport, he was asked once why he still had a harness and he said "It's my mommy's job to keep me safe, so she does!"







He got worried one time when he was in a car with a friend and had a booster/lap belt to wear, he didn't like that. He won't ride with them anymore, he likes his harness!

Safety first here, we don't worry about what other people do!


----------



## Shiloh (Apr 15, 2005)

this is driving me insane....my friends have this spring all switched their kids (or so it seems to me) into backless boosters or back boosters and regular safety belts..

I wish I had a five point seat FOR ME.

My ds is turning 6 and still in his car seat....he has a booster for emergency trips/taxis but if he outgrows this one it will be finding a bigger five point one end of story..I remember reading about a side impact car crash where everyone else was fine except the kid in the backless booster who suffered a head injury...seemed pretty cut and dry to me they have more protection with the head wings and extra side impact protection in a car seat.

I haven't said anything to my friends except for one who I asked if her dd was really over 40lbs as her dd is only 4....she was all pleased with her big girl seat....I told my sons safety makes them big responsible boys...
also the people who give me looks that the kids do not wear winter coats and car seats (thanks mothering.com for that one!) due to compression....

why do people go for easy over safe?


----------



## Kleine Hexe (Dec 2, 2001)

All I can do at this point is agree with other posters. I'm not going to compromise my family's safety because my child may not like it or is embarassed.

It's important to explain that different families make different choices. Explain why you make the choices you do.

My ds is 7 and in a Regent. He has not once said he doesn't like it. In fact he loves is seat.

I don't carpool. I live too far out for anyone to carpool with me. Besides, I'm not comfortable with my children in someone elses car.


----------



## DoomaYula (Aug 22, 2006)

I think it'll just be yet another conversation about how everyone is different... also, we live in an area where they will probably walk to school.


----------

