# Cesarean Birth and Recovery SUPPORT Thread 11 (MAY 2004)



## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Our other thread was 200 posts long and 11 pages, time to start another one.

This is a the Cesarean Support and Recovery Thread. This is not a thread for debate or judgement of our choices or necessity of cesarean.

All are welcome to post!


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Ok, roll call!!!I think KKmama has some news for us. Where is she???


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OnTheFence*
That is a dilema. I don't know what to say. I am sorry. IS there a more VBAC friendly hospital around?

Yes and no. Here in NJ, land of exborbitant med. mal. premiums, the VBAC friendly insitutions are slowly becoming unfriendly basically by adding more and more required interventions (they say b/c of current medical evidence and ACOG guidelines, I say b/c their malpractice carriers require it in order to have coverage for VBACs). And I guess I feel, after being already subjected to a bunch of IMO unnecessary interventions and "rules" w/Henry's birth which lead, IMO, to a c/s, that if I'm going to be stuck in bed again, what's the point in suffering through a labor, ykwim? I really don't want a repeat c/s, though, if at all possible to avoid.

I'm still working through this, obviously. I must say, though, dh has come full circle. He actually asked what the rules for HBAC were in NY (since his parents have a house there). Go dh! I'm looking into that now (if anyone knows, let me know). My only reluctance there is that in the case of transport, its at least 15-20 miles to a VBAC equipped hospital. But that may not be fatal if HBAC is legal.

We're also looking into some options in NYC (where dh works). There are some very good, supposedly very VBAC friendly, hospitals/centers there, and if no traffic, its less than an hour by car. (My thought is to make te trip during non-rush hour in earlish labor and then just labor in a museum or Central Park or something untl well into active labor -- crazy, I know).

I'm still investigating ... but thanks for letting me flush out my thoughts here.

Kkmama ... where are you? Inquiring minds want to know! (We're awful -- you're probably just enjoying your babymoon and we're harrassing you







).


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Amy,

Have you considered this scenario: Hiring a doula and labouring at home as long as possible and then going to the hospital. With an experienced doula or maybe you could hire a midwife to be your doula, you would be able to stay at home until the baby is fastly approaching. I know my friend did this, and had her baby within like 45 min of arrival. There was no time for intervention!


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

KKmama hasn't posted in almost a week. I would think that means baby is here!!!! I hope everything went well and she got what she had been hoping for!!







to you!!!

I'm here by the way







I feel like I've been







Don't know why...but I do....


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

200 posts!?!? wowsers!

It's Our Family- What do you feel censored about mama?

Henry's_Mama- I would suggesst a doula and what OnTheFence suggested about laboring at home. Even if you do end up birthing in the hospital you are in charge of your birth no matter what. Good luck to you in your journey!


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Why do I feel censored.... I feel like ppl judge what I say based on my method of birth and the fact that ppl consider me a fundamentalist....which I am NOT!

I was planning on laboring at home as long as possible and then showing up at a hospital with my doula....which was before my doula bailed and I chose repeat instead (which happened after my doula bailed btw...)


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

I'm going to join in here. I posted my birth story - here's the link for anyone who is interested. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=147221

I had 2 very uneventful vaginal deliveries with my first 2 kids- they were 5 weeks early and we had nursing issues, but deliveries went fine- totally natural.

This one caught me totally off guard. I'm comfortable that it was needed and I'm ok with it, but I still find myself playing monday morning quarterback to see if there was anything else I could have done differently. I really don't think so.

I looked at my birth plan after ds was born and there was almost nothing on it that actually went 'right'. My doc was awesome, though, and I believe didn't want the surgery as much as I didn't want it.

It's not the actual birth and delivery I'm having a hard time with, it's the recovery. By this time with my first 2, I felt great. Now, I'm still having a hard time getting up and down, I'm still walking very slowly, and I still can't pick up my other kids. That's the part that's hard for me-the physical side of it.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *its_our_family*
KKmama hasn't posted in almost a week. I would think that means baby is here!!!! I hope everything went well and she got what she had been hoping for!!







to you!!!

I'm here by the way







I feel like I've been







Don't know why...but I do....

Please do not feel censored. And please voice your concerns to Cynthia. I want to say that I told Cynthia today in PM that I do not feel a Cesarean Section Board would be in the best interest of MDC. I think it would cause so much division and I believe some people would take things to an extreme to make a point or abuse other posters. While I am open to debate, talk about the high csection rate, having better birthing practices, etc etc etc -- I don't think I can stomach anyone or myself being used as a way for someone to sound off. I hope none of you are pissed that I now feel this way, I know I am one who advocated for a forum, but I just don't think its right anymore.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

Hey, Mamas, just letting you know that KKMama did have her baby - a VBAC. She posted in the due date thread.







I had to search for her name to find the post!









OK, that's it. Just wanted to say that - and that I'm glad that there is this thread. Really glad.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Thank you Pam for giving us such wonderful news and hugs!


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## kimberlylibby (Dec 28, 2003)

Hi all!

Since I'm the one who started the drama thread defending this support thread, perhaps I should actually post here









I'm going to have a repeat c/s in July for this little babe. I'm actually at peace with it, but wasn't at first... and I've finally reached 100% peace with my first c/s. With eclampsia/hellp/abruption there was no other choice.

I am a little nervous because my epi didn't work very well and I felt a LOT of the c/s last time... but I'm hoping the spinal works better.

I am also very worried about hospital policy.... last time they took my very healthy newborn to the nursery for FOUR hours before I saw her because that's hospital policy for c/s..... despite no health issues.... and I'd like to nurse ASAP... but I'm having issues with sticking up for myself on this one....

My daughter didn't latch until 10 weeks old and I think part of it was that she didn't get offered the breast for SO long, you know?

Anyway, I need to discuss this with my ob soon. I'm also having my tubes tied during my c/s and I want to know if anyone has had that? Did it make your recovery any longer?


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

woohoo kkmama! congrats to you on your VBAC and your new babe!









shelbean-welcome..thanks for sharing your story..I totally know how you feel about recovery time. I felt great when I came home from the hospital but was shocked to learn I could barely bend over for weeks! (picking up ds just to change his diaper was torture not to mention holding him hurt my belly!) We had lots of family visiting but since I looked fine I think they all assumed I was fine..My parents did help out alot with cleaning and stuff though. My advice is rest as much as you possibly can, as the more you do the quicker you will recover..I know that's probably not the easiest though with 3 kiddos! (I had a hard enough time with a newborn!) Do you have someone helping you out with your other children? btw seems like there's quite a few of us AZ mamas here on this thread too..(I'm down near Tucson)

it'sourfamily-







i'm sorry you are feeling censored..I do kind of know how you feel. In most of my *natural* (mostly UC & HB) birthy forums I frequent I feel like I must not talk about my c/s less I be judged for the decisions I made or just an inferior tone I feel that I did not end up with a natural childbirth so I must be ignorant or something..even here I feel the same way, though I've found the most support through this thread..you know what I've decided though? it's my birth and I have chosen to own my experience, so let people think whatever they want, they were not at my birth..YKWIM? (I know that it's definitly easier said than done at times though.)

kimberlibby- it was our hospital's policy that there is no rooming in with your baby until after a mandatory 4 hour visit to the nursery (they don't take the babe until 2 hours spent in recovery with mom though). My MW's however really stressed the point to us that he's our babe & we can do what we want with him. They can't MAKE you send him to the nursery (though the MW's did warn us there might be retaliation on the nurse's part) we only had 1 nurse that was a snot ( not because of rooming in though but because we asked her if we could store our placenta in the fridge) though another interrogated us in the hallway while I was being wheeled to my room from recovery why I didn't want baby bathed (like he was diseased or something..arghh.literaly she chased us down the hall.lol.), the rest were real sweeties and gave us no problems at all. Anyway my point is, it's your babe and hospital policy is not always set in stone. also can you get an LC to come help you at your hospital? Mine was definitly why I am still BF today (even is spite of supplementing & supply issues- though mine was due to illness and another hospitalization not the c/s)


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## CharlieBrown (Jan 20, 2004)

hi,
just checking in. i've had three c/s. i lurked for four plus years, learning, before i posted for the first time. when i found this thread i realized i finally"fit" here. thanx. will write more later.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

YAY KKmama!!! I KNEW she could do it!!! I can't wait to hear the story!

OTF--I told CM that about the c/b forum about 3 months ago. I don't think its a good idea either and if it were to happen it would need about 4 mods to keep an eye on it...kwim??


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## JeanetteL (Feb 28, 2002)

Hi everyone,
I sincerely hope it is okay for me to post here. I am a doula, (fairly new, I only started last fall) and have had two clients thus far have c/s - one much more traumatic and unexpected than the other. I also have a client who is due in early June. She hopes for a VBAC, but her doctor is not all that supportive, and her repeat c/s is scheduled for three days later. We've talked about her visualizing all three possible scenarios (successful VBAC, scheduled c/s or c/s after labouring) and I've asked her to focus on imagining herself being in charge in each situation, I want her to feel empowered no matter what happens.

Because of her situation, and because of how hard it was for me when my first two clients had c/s (because I cared about them and knew that the birth was not what they had hoped for)- I would like to ask permission to lurk on your thread, to try and gain some knowledge that can help me when I am supporting a client and a c/s becomes necessary for whatever reason. How can I help my clients plan an empowering c/s (or at least prepare for the eventuality if it looks like a real possibility)?

The hospital I've worked at also has the "mandatory" four hour recovery period in the nursery. For one of my clients this was not a problem, her recovery was rocky and she wasn't ready to be with her baby, and for the second, the baby had a low glucose stick, so they brought her to recovery long enough for a leisurly nurse and cuddle. However, how can my clients get around this in the future? I'd love to hear from some of you who have managed to circumvent that rule. Do you have any other specific suggestions for things that commonly come up and should be addressed prenatally or before the decision is made during labour?

Also, after the c/s (especially in the case of an unexpected or traumatic c/s)- what can I do to help my clients process the event and emotionally recover?

Again, I hope it is not inappropriate for me to post here, and don't worry at all about telling me if you'd prefer I posted these questions somewhere else.









Jeanette


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## annethcz (Apr 1, 2004)

A quick note on the 4 hour seperation policy- in some hospitals, the reasoning for this is that the recovery nurses are only in charge of mom. There may not be anyone trained in neonatal resuscitation to look after the baby 'just in case.' A doula friend of mine told me about a client she had that recently got out of the seperation period when the parents signed a consent form indicating that they wouldn't hold the hospital accountable if anything happened to the baby.

Point being, if you can find out WHY the policy exists, you may be able to find a way around the policy.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

Jeanette- I don't mind your questions. I'm actually a student doula, so I look forward to anyone's imput on the subject as well. I think for me the key to my having a positive experience (even though it was far from the birth I'd planned) was that everyone around me was super respectful and never pressured me. I think the best thing you can do to help your clients recover is to listen and validate thier experience..even if they want to go over it 20 times. I know talking about it helps process the experience and with a new baby most family and friends are focused on the baby and not how the mom actually feels. I think this is when we hear comments like "well at least baby is healthy" (I think that's the WORST thing anyone could tell a post c/s mom IMHO).


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## beautyful (Oct 30, 2003)

Hiya! I'm new to this thread... I had an unplanned c/b in March, and I am still dealing with the emotional issues resulting. I had wanted to have natural birth. The short version of events is that I had been diagnosed with pre-eclampsia around 38 weeks. I was on partial bedrest and the baby had not engaged. My water broke at 39 weeks, 5 days. I was ordered to stay in the bed because of the worry of prolapsed cord. She never engaged and 26ish hours later I had the Cesarean. She had a double nuchal cord that the doctor said was tight. I lost a TON of blood (I was anemic to begin with) and actually stayed on antibiotics for 4 days.

I'm still having a lot of issues, because it was ultimately up to me about when to have the Cesarean. I was allowed to labour for 12 hours in the hospital, but I felt pressure towards saying "yes". (Of course, I was MISERABLE being in the bed that whole time.) I feel like I have to convince myself it was necessary to have it. Am I alone in this?


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I'm surprised at how many places have this 4 hour thing going.

I birthed my DD in Boston. Because I knew ahead of time that I was going to have a C/S, I checked all the policies before picking a hospital. Boston is actually very progressive, and most hospitals there were certified "breastfeeding friendly". This includes allowing C/S moms immediate access to their babies for bonding and post-birth BFing/latching, so long as there is no emergency following the birth that requires a NICU transfer.

So, one possibility is to check to see if there are other, more progressive hospitals in your area.

If changing hospitals is not an option, then I agree with what everyone else here said: it's your baby, and they can't take her away if you don't want it. But do try to make this clear ahead of time. Talk to your OB and the head nurse at your hospital. Births are BIG BUCKS for hospitals, and if you threaten to take your business elsewhere you just might get something.

I wouldn't stand for it, myself. I know how important that early bonding time is. Just make it clear that you won't be following that policy.


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## Jessica36 (Oct 14, 2003)

When I had Zachary -- I was adament that I get to see him, however he started having breathing problems. They wanted to keep an eye on him. Of course when I got him, I NEVER let him go. He had the loudest scream in the hosptial. and he was NOT happy with out his mama.


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## AnaNicole (Jan 30, 2004)

Well, no baby today. I just got the amnio results and he is just not ready. SO, we wait a bit--how long, I don't yet know. Maybe a week...maybe two.

I'm a bit bummed but would be way more bummed if he had to be on a vent!!

Onward....


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

My hospital also kept me from ds for 4+ hours. DH and I kept bugging everyone but no one would bring him to me. Dh tried to "rescue" him from the nursery, but the nurses told dh that ds couldn't leave, and dh didn't know any better to argue with him (he was too overwhelmed with the c/s and everything else going on, I think). We kept asking what the hold up was and they said well he needs a bath -- I told them no bath and they ignored me. He needs to be kept warm -- I told them that's what my arms and warm blankets were for. They didn't give a rat's behind. I was SO mad. Still am. I never got to hold my ds on his birthday. I sincerely believe that we had such a rough start to bfing b/c of that (he developed serious blood type incompatibility jaundice within 30 hours of birth and he never latched on well until he was almost a week old).

I think the policy is stupid, frankly, and it is a litigation based policy. If anything were to happen to baby, they're afraid of being sued -- afterall, a c/s is not a "natural" form of delivery and does not have the same benefits that a v/b provides (for getting fluid out of lungs, for example), and the hospitals know this and know that there are ramifications for that. More and more I believe that hospital policies surrounding birth, c/s, VBAC, etc. are made based on their med. mal. ins. carrier's wishes of how to best avoid liigation and not using evidence based medicine. I am seriously trying to figure out how a lwasuit could be brought b/c a hospital failed to follow evidence based medicine.

Anyway ...







new people, btw.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

For those of you who requested your medical records from your hospital and/or OB/mw ... how long did it take from the time you sent your request to the time you received your records? I'm feeling impatient ... I sent my requests a week ago and I haven't heard anything.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

AnaNicole ... so sorry to hear that. But its better for him if he cooks a little while longer. Are they giving you steroids or anything? Will they do additional amnios?


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## bwylde (Feb 19, 2004)

At our hospital I was unable to see him for a little more than 3 hours, but I was put to sleep so I was in recovery during that time. They did bring EThan right up to our family (DH and all his grandparents and a couple uncles) as soon as they had all the tests and cleaning up done. I felt kind of bad they were able to be together but I'm just glad he was able to be with family almost right after his birth. I think that's what I'm going to look forward to with a vbac; instant togetherness


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## Jessica36 (Oct 14, 2003)

Amy -- Call the hospital. Make sure they didn't "lose" the request. Generally they say about a week.

HTH


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## AnaNicole (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Henry's_Mamma*
AnaNicole ... so sorry to hear that. But its better for him if he cooks a little while longer. Are they giving you steroids or anything? Will they do additional amnios?

Well, I had steroid shots last month, which is one reason we're surprised about the amnio results. To the best of my knowledge we won't do another amnio, just wait. But I don't know. Apparently he's not as mature as we even guessed he'd be (one of the docs said he should at least be "marginal" but it doesn't sound like he is). I assume we're just going to wait about two weeks. But, I have had a lot of contx. so....

Time will tell! This is almost like waiting to go into labor!


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## Iluvmy2 (Jan 23, 2004)

Hi! I think I posted on this thread once a while ago, I read it alot though, it is like an addiction I had my first c/b w/my DS he was 42+ weeks late and after being induced and pushing for 3+ hours we realized he was not going to come out that way because he was looking to the right







(I never met the ob until 1 hour before the c/b)

I had my DD via scheduled c/b, after a lot of research we decided it was best. She was on oxygen for 2 1/2 days, but nursed like a champ when we finally got together (this was 2 days after birth) She never got any formula in the hosipital while we were seperated, and I didn't pump for her until almost 24 hours after the birth, poor babe was on an iv with sugar water.

If you don't like the 4 hour rule challenge it, but I just want anyone reading this thread to know that just because you can't nurse minutes after birth doesn't mean that you are doomed to a failed bfing experience (or a prolonged latch on period)

Also, I got my tubes tied during my DD birth and had no additional pain in recovery.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Tracy and I were never apart. I was wheeled out of the or holding him. He never left my sight. That wasn't me that was the hospital policy. With Bryce they took him about 10 minutes after birth and then had him while i was stitched. They were going to keep him another 15 minutes but they brought him asap since he wanted to nurse







They took him 2 hours later to the nicu for 30 hours for his O2 levels.

Ananicole


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## AnaNicole (Jan 30, 2004)

I got SO down last night. I just sobbed in Chris's arms. I was online when the doctor called to give me the update and he didn't leave a detailed message so I had to wait AGAIN for news. That just compounded my disappointment and frustration and it all snowballed. I feel like I've put my whole life on hold since the end of March--no sex, no hiking, no strenuous activity, no this no that.... I have been NEEDING to go somewhere and get out into the middle of nothing and everything. Utah canyon country would be perfect. But the prospect of suddenly bleeding and risking my baby's life isn't a chance I'm willing to take. So I've had to forego what I see as a passage that I craved and needed--to be on that redrock one last time before Chris and I become parents in our own right. That's been very hard. Plus, getting a false diagnosis of vasa previa at the end of March....then feeling absolutely panicked for three weeks, until I got the new diagnosis....then waiting around for what I understood was the basically inevitable bleeding, that never did happen....the prospect of bedrest, of losing my baby, of rushing to the hospital in the middle of the night...of, furthermore, having to awaken my kids and rush with them to the hospital in the middle of the night, since Chris works nights....then the basic assurance that the baby would be ready at the end of May...and getting my hopes up to meet him yesterday only to have those hopes dashed and then segue into more waiting....

This has been an emotional nightmare!

But it's a new day and I just got off the phone with my OB. The new plan is to go ahead with the c/s on June 4th. According to the perinatologist down in ABQ that is completely reasonable for a lot of reasons that make some sense to me (the way the lab down there looks at the amnio results, the general change over the course of that many days, etc...).

6-4-04...those are damn fine numbers, I must say (my favorite number has always been 6, and 4 follows right behind). Plus, oh weirdness of weirdness, that date is precisely 15 days after Soren's b-day...whereas Chiara was born 15 days after Mira's birthday! Weird, huh?

Time to settle in and try to be zen about this. Everything happens for a reason.....


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## Al Dente (Jan 8, 2004)

AnaNicole. Of course you are worried, and frustrated, and on an emotional roller coaster. You've had a difficult time, but it's almost over! Knowing the date will likely make you feel better about the whole situation. I agree that those are cool birth day numbers- my ds are just the reverse (04-06-04) !









We just found out my beloved first baby (Josephine) has liver cancer. Probably weeks, perhaps a couple of months, to live. She was asymptomatic for so long (until this past Sunday) and then went downhill very quickly. It was almost as if she was waiting for me to fully recover and get the hang of being a mommy before she let me know that she needed me. She is an amazing animal.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Rachel--- First off







on the news about Josie Then on the flipside PHEWWW I thought you meant your CHILD! I know it is hard to lose an animal fast and to know they are leaving... we recently lost our little kittie Cleopatra :cry


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

How long until I feel normal again? With my first 2 (vaginal deliveries), I was feeling back to normal within a few days. This time, with the surgery, I'm still having a hard time bending over, it's still hard to cough or sneeze, etc.


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

welcome to the newbies here, and a hello to everyone!

beautyful, you are absolutely not alone in feeling that way! i know i felt like i had to justify it somehow... in fact, i even went for my PP visit to my midwife and told her how people made me feel it was unneccesary and wasn't that stupid, bla, bla, .....i think even then i knew by the look in her eyes that she felt it could've been avoided...
i think it just takes some time to really see things for what they are. i am still waiting on my med. records, so we'll see if most of the conclusions i've made are right! BTW, henry'smama~~~ the hospital that has my records takes a long time to get them out. i guess they are busy. i think it probably varies btwn hospitals.


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

please forgive me for venting here. i was going to post this in vbac, but i honestly feel more comfortable talking here, where i know there are people that understand/support me.

my mom and i were walking yesterday and she said something that really made me mad. i usually talk to her about the c/b and she's understanding, but this time she said something really insensitive. i mentioned having another baby and she said, " i just don't want you to get your hopes up. you are small, sarah." CAN I JUST SAY UGH, ARG, AHHHHHH!





















:

this is exactly the kind of comment i do not need to hear when i am thinking in terms of a vbac. yes, i know it is also a possibility that i could have another c/b, but i would want to try for a vbac and would need utmost support. yes, i am small-framed, 5/2 and 115lbs, but can't i deliver a 9-pounder? (my dd was 8 lbs, 14 oz and 22 1/2 in long, and i still truly believe i could've delivered her vaginally)

why is it that i always feel like i have to defend my womanhood to people? i mean, i FEEL capable of v/b, doesn't that mean anything? i know i still need more facts from my med. records, but gosh...


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

mamasarah-- Don't bang you head against a wall. Bang HER head against a wall









It's just ignorence. Ignore it!


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

hey, thanks. i know she doesn't know! i tried to tell her that is just a misconception about small women, but it still made me feel inadequate! one thing i know for sure, i won't be having any babies here by my family.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Sarah ... I've gotten that comment a lot and I just choose to ignore it. My mom & aunt have both said it about themselves and my cousin and me (we all had c/s, but I think my cousin's and mine were not necessary). I reminded my mother that in the 1940's my Grandmother, her and my aunt's mom, delivered 3 babies vaginally, and my Grandmother was a tiny person -- 5'2" and maybe 100 lbs. on a fat day. We're all much bigger than that.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

So I requested my med. records from the hospital and OB. The hosp. will send me a bill for copying first and when I pay it, then they'll send me my records. And here in NJ, this is what they can (and do) _legally_ charge:
$10.00 search and retrieval fee
$1.00 per page (for the 1st 100 pages)
$0.25 per page up to $200.00
That is totally ridiculous IMO. Talk about dissuading people from reviewing their records. Legally, their MY records and MY property. I don't mind a nominal copy charge, but $1/page? That's outrageous.







:

My OB's office called and asked me all sorts of questions as to why I wanted my records, including whether it was for litigation.







At least they're not charging me, although it could take 30 days for me to get my records.

Nothing like hurry up and wait. {sigh}


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

amy, when they got back to me about my records they said it would be like $100 or something, which i totally couldn't afford. so i spoke with someone in the med. records office and they helped me distinguish which papers i would really want. we talked it down to about $25, much better! i just hope it has everything i want to know.


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

Amy - I think I mentioned this before, but when I "got" my medical records from the hospital, I actually just physically went in and looked at them. The hospital was going to charge similar fees to yours, and we could NOT afford it.

I called and made an appt for a day when my DH didn't have to work, and we all went in (DH to care for DS while I looked/handcopied my records). It took quite a while - there were a lot of pages of CRAP that I had to wade through before I found what I was looking for. BUT I'm glad that I went in there b/c I was sure that I had seen everything that was in my file - if I had just had a copy sent, I think I may have questioned the completeness - KWIM?

At least at my hospital, I could stay as long as I wanted (there had to be a hospital employee present at all times







) though the attendant did keep hinting that there wasn't really much more to look at. Or, if you realize it's just too much at that first visit, you can come back as often as you want. I should have done this, but we were preparing for a move, so I didn't have much time.

Or, (I think) you could maybe have a new care provider request the records and then share a copy w/you. I could have done this for my OB's records, anyway, had I had a new care provider then. I'm not so sure about the hospital, but something to look into.


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

Hey y'all... I had my baby!

Ezekiel Judah arrived ~3:30 am on the 19th. He was 9 lbs 4 oz, 21 1/2 inches, and a VBAC! The VBAC itself was a great (and challenging) experience, and I have to say that up until I was pushing, I honestly did not believe it was really going to happen. I feel so fortunate to have had a very well-balanced, very supportive crew (dh, the ob, the doula, even the hospital nurses).

I'll post a birth story here later, and in other convenient locations.









What has been really interesting for me which I'd love to discuss with y'all later is some of the physical sensations (afterward)... like when I was showering for the 1st time, I was unconsciously being careful of surgical staples which weren't there (because I hadn't had a cesarean this time)... it was so weird how my body seemed to remember the cesarean. Even though I didn't have the incision pain or any of that associated stuff, pyschologically, I was confused for a bit. I guess I should ask about that stuff on a VBAC thread, too. So weird, all this head and body stuff.

AnaNicole, I've been thinking of you. Hang in there... I'm hoping you can give birth soon, because I know you're worrying...


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

congrats KKmama! how wonderful. i will be anxious to hear your story as it is a great inspiration to me. enjoy your baby!


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Yay! Congrats KKmama! I'm looking forward to reading your birth story, too!

Kinsey ... I thought about doing the go look through my file thing but w/the new HIPAA regs, the hosputal doesn't allow it, and even if they did, the idea of stepping foot in that hosp. again makes me shake. I'd rather scrape together the $$ and just get it all. And I'm pretty sure I'll know if its missing things as dh & I have a pretty good collective memory of how many people were in and out of the various rooms, who was present at the surgery, etc. And there was a student nurse in my room 90% of the time, so the records should be pretty detailed. I fully anticipate there being a record of every contraction. Heaven help me. And I want it all, even if its irrelevant. I think I just need to see everything. yk?


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

KKmama - Congratulations!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Henry's_Mamma*
w/the new HIPAA regs, the hosputal doesn't allow it

Whaaaaat? This makes me very suspicious. I'm sorry, but like you said, they are YOUR records, and you should have access to them w/out having to pay a fee.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Henry's_Mamma*
and even if they did, the idea of stepping foot in that hosp. again makes me shake.

This I can understand. I hope you are able to find the information you're looking for.


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

I posted this earlier, but it got buried. I'll start a new thread if I don't get any responses this time. Thanks.

How long until I feel normal again? With my first 2 (vaginal deliveries), I was feeling back to normal within a few days, couple of weeks at the most. This time, with the surgery, I'm still having a hard time bending over, it's still hard to cough or sneeze, etc.

It's been 2 1/2 weeks and I have no idea how well I'm doing. If I should feel better or worse than I do, if I'm doing too much or not enough, etc. I'm seeing the dr for my follow up on Tuesday, but I really don't like feeling this way and I have no idea how to make it better. Any tips on speeding up recovery???


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Michelle

I am going to place a guess that you are overdoing it. Having had 2 previous vaginal birth and easy recoveries, you are probably not taking it as easy as you should be.

I have only had surgical births, and I found the first the hardest to recover from. This time I was feeling pretty darn normal by 3 weeks out, I would say- that's when I started vacuuming and that heavier stuff again.

To recover well from c-birth, IMO- at first- it's move as much as you can (ie- in the hospital), then, it's move as little as you can (at home)- b/c let's face it- you are just likely to over-do things at home, esp. with other kids to take care of. So, eat and drink lots, and rest lots- although I think of my cesareans as "births" I am careful to remember that they are also major abdominal surgery- and if it were any major abdominal surgery other than a birth- I would sure be pampered more, by myself and others. Take it easy for a bit and see if that helps







.


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## GatorNNP (May 17, 2004)

in response to shelbean91:

I would agree with above, I think a good 3 weeks before feeling more normal.
my ds is 5 months. I did a lot the first few days (well probably too much, like a dummy picked up my friends toddler who came to visit me), felt good, went home, tried to do too much, felt worse, started taking it easier and started feeling and getting better. I still am tender to light touch or rubbing over the site. I also agree with remember it is birth and major abd. surgery, not a ton of cutting but lots of pulling a stretching the old bod doesn't go through with a vag birth. Hope you are feeling better soon.


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

wow, I didn't realize there was another thread. There has been so much going on I'll try and catch up.
Pamamidwife-thanks for your support. It was nice to read that you are glad we are dealing with our c/b and supporting each other.
shellbean-I agree with the others. It takes a while to feel normal again. You might be doing too much. Especially with having two other kids and previous vaginal births. I remember trying to pick things up off the floor after about a month and realizing later I was pushing myself. Being a normally active person not doing these sorts of things was making me feel crazy.
Henry's mama- I got my records with in a week no problem, no money involved. I asked about my records when I was seeing my midwife and she had me sign a request form. That way she could get the surgery reports too and not have to pay for them. She then sent me a copy.
KKmama-yeah! Glad to hear things went well.
Ananicole-wow, I can't imagine the rollercoaster of emotions you are experiencing. hang in there, the redrocks will be waiting.
What the heck is it with this 4 hour waiting period post c/b for infants. that seems like utter nonsense. The patients really do have rights and having your newborn at your side is one of them. I can understand if there were complications but otherwise it is a stupid policy.
welcome to all the new people.


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## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

Quote:

And there was a student nurse in my room 90% of the time, so the records should be pretty detailed. I fully anticipate there being a record of every contraction.
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but I just want to point out that just because something was documented, does not mean you will get a copy of it. I requested some medical records from my OB-Gyn and I know for a fact there are several things missing. My Attorney has said we will have to get an affidavit from somebody swearing that the new set is complete. I had an emergency C-Section on July 29th due to severe pre-eclampsia/HELLP syndrome. Because I was only 24 weeks pregnant, they did a classical incision (Vertical), and I will have to have a c-section every time from now on. I went to an OB to talk about next time we get pregnant, and he was extremely comforting and compassionate. Sorry I just jumped in here, but I have been following the threads ever since the very first one.
Gossamer


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

I'm going to see what they come up with, and if I think its incomplete, I plan to drive the hosp. records dept. crazy until I'm allowed to sit and go through my own file. I did get my OB's records yesterday and they're very complete except the 2nd page of the operative report is missing. I'll call them next week, though.

I have to say, looking at my records is making me very anxious.

Michelle ... I agree w/pps. A c/s is MAJOR abdominal surgery which takes some time to heal from. Some people feel better in weeks, some in months. It really depends. I think the best advice is to avoid heavy lifting, vacuuming, strenuous activity, laundry, excessive bending, etc. for a few more weeks. It sounds like your recovery is normal, though, so don't worry.


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

I'll agree with all the pps, too... my midwife basically ordered me to do NOTHING for 6 wks, and it was good advice....


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

Thanks ladies- as long as I know I'm on the right track, I'm fine. I really am taking it easy, it's just that I want to do more- but I can't.

There was one thing I did that was really dumb (and dh yelled at me about it, well-not yelled, but said 'I don't like being mad at you for hurting yourself, so please don't do anything like that again') and that was take out the garbage. Just from the house to the outside can in the garage, but it hurt to do that.

I have only picked up my other 2 kids like 3 times and that's only been in the last few days. I've lifted with my legs and arms, not my midsection. Dh was home for the first 2 weeks, but he had to go back to work this past Wed, so I'm dealing with that as best as I can. My mom comes in later today for about 6 weeks to help, so I'll be able to rest more.

I did get around quite a bit while in the hospital- they were surprised I wanted to get around as much as I did and I've been resting as much as possible since I've been home. I've only left the house about 3 times, including visits to the doc for a check up and bilirubin check.

I just want to be sure I'm doing enough, but not too much and you've helped me realize I'm on the right track. For the most part, I'm taking care of me and baby, but I do feel I'm shortchanging my other 2 so I'm glad dh's 4 days off are coming up and my mom will be here.

Thanks again.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Peeking in for a moment.









I am busy working but wanted to let all of you know that my DH has a very good job offer here in town. We will have much better insurance coverage and better benefits. Its also very family friendly. This company even offers lactation services and breasts pumps to its working moms!







Not that we need it but they also have an onsite day care facility and encourage moms to breastfeed.
So --- we are in the talking stages of baby no. 4. I need a good "girls" check up and need to start on vitamins, but I would like to start trying in August, if not late July if possible. I really want a late spring/summer baby if at all possible.
Also, my SIL is trying for baby no. 2 with her very new husband. (this was my brother's SO/Almost wife before he was killed) Anyway I am giving her Peggy's Natural Mothering books and my VBAC books. She was 16 when she had my neice (nearly 10 years ago) by csection for low amniotic fluid. I do not know all the details but it was something watched for about three weeks and then after one her visits she was actually taken to the hospital right then to have a csection. (she was seeing a CNM) She hopes to have a VBAC but is really scared of having any kind of pain. She is a very emotional girl and suffered with PTSD after my brothers death. She says she would just like to give it a shot. So we will see.

Welcome to all the newbies!
Michelle -- you are doing to much, REST REST REST! Easier said than done I am well aware.
AnaNicole -- I am waiting for you to post pictures of a baby now!


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

As soon as dh is off work and my mom gets here, I promise I will rest more!! Thanks for the reminders and encouragement.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

kkmama-I'm so happy for you! congrats on your little one and your VBAC!









Shelbean- I am 3 months post c/s and just beginning to feel *normal* again.I still get pain on occasion when I do too much lifting but overall I feel healed. I can totally relate to not really knowing how you feel! people would often ask me that during my recovery and I would simply reply "I don't know" as one moment I'd feel really great and ready to conquer the world and the next pain and wanting to curl up in a ball and die. I know that sounds a bit dramatic but it's the only way I can describe it!

I have a question for you mamas..

do you find yourself guarding your tummy? I won't let anyone touch it and find myself protecting it. DH questioned me on this and I don't know why I do this but feel it's perfectly normal with what I know about bodywork. I am considering doing some heller work (talk therapy w/ bodywork usually over the course of 10 sessions) reccomended by a friend, but am not sure I'm really ready for that emotionally. I am going to start some self massage this week and see what happens..


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

nak

Rainbowmoon, I definitely protected my tummy w/ my C w/ ds#1. And I also found myself unconsciously doing the same thing after ds#2 was born, even though he was a vbac. This recent birth has really reminded me of the mind/body connection, even though my C was almost 3 yrs ago and I feel like I have "processed" it well...

Also... I finished a birth story and posted on the May mamas birth story thread, might post it under the vbac heading, too.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

KKmama-

I'm a little late with this, but- CONGRATULATIONS!









(I have gotten to where I just read the responses in the e-mail and don't come on as much, so I am missing things now and then)


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

KKmama-- Congrats!!

Shelbean-- A c/b can be traumatic for your body...wait... it IS traumatic for your body







It takes time. With T it took about 6 months to feel good. This time with B, about 4 days pp I was feeling great and could do just about everything. I'm 17+ weeks pp now and I can sometimes feel the soreness in my lower abs. I really feel it when I'm trying to walk fast. Just take your time









OTF-- I'm glad your dh has a good job offer!! I know what its like to need a new one. We've been looking for 8 months and 5 months seriously. We're in such a big hole here it is depressing...


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## Icequeen_in_ak (Mar 6, 2004)

I know this is going to get really long, so please bear with me. I'm just so upset right now!!!

I know this is silly, but a co-worker of my DHs went into labor today. She was due in a couple of days and she worked the whole way through (my husband made a habit of telling me "yeah, she made it all the way to the end) like I'm suppose to feel some level of guilt for being placed on full bed rest at 21 weeks? But that isn't even my vent.

He said that he told her that he really was disappointed that he never got the "honey, it's time" experience. You see, my contractions started at 21 weeks, were held at bay with trebuteline (sp?) until week 35, and then I had contrax 3-5 minutes apart for the following 11 days before they started pitocin and then ultimately delivered via c-section.

Now here is my vent... I was talking this over with my mother (and other family members in the past, but I usually get the same response from them)... she told me "you never really had real labor"... EXCUSE ME??? 11 DAYS DOESN'T QUALIFY???? What??? It was fake??? She responded with, "no, you never got to pushing labor... that is the stuff that really hurts" So I guess my 11 days with no sleep (because they were painful enough that I couldn't sleep through them) and the fact that my stomach was cut open to bring this child out, doesn't qualify as "having experienced the pain of childbirth" And what is so bad... is part of me thinks "yeah, I didn't experience it".

I don't know why these comments still bug me so much, so long afterwards, but I'm seriously p*ssed off at my mother right now







And oddly enough, I'm finding myself very jealous of my DHs co-worker because her pregnancy and labor experience thus far couldn't be anymore text book....


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

Ooh, I'd be pretty mad at what he said...

Something I'm so aware of after my most recent pregnancy is that we all seem to have our own passage through it... we all have our own trials, and if you had to go on bed rest at 21 weeks, it is *not* your fault. You ought to be congratulated for your patience and perserverance, because it sounds like you were able to successfully carry your baby to term and have a healthy outcome.

If I had 11 days of 3-5 minute contrax I'd go insane. I was ready to lose it after 38 hours. And FWIW, in my own recent experience, the pushing wasn't the painful part (except for my ovarian cysts, which really have nothing to do with childbirth!); the *labor* was the painful part.

I'm really sorry for their insensitivity... it's even worse that it's your dh and your mom. Feel free to vent away here...


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

Icequeen- you definitely had real labor. In my experience, pushing labor is the good part, the stuff leading up to it is way harder. For my first 2, it was a relief to get to the pushing part and actually less painful. So, I'd have to say, you got the hardest of both situations.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

I agree. The pushing was a RELIEF. The labor was hard. Icequeen, you had plenty of real labor (and bless your heart for lasting so long!). I'd also be pretty mad at your dh and your mom. Shame on them! Vent away as much as you need to ...


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

icequeen, i don't know if you read one of my recent posts, but comments like those STILL bother me, even 2 years later. insensitive comments will always be insensitive comments and i am sorry that you have to hear them from family. <<<<<HUGS>>>>>> .... hang in there.


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## Icequeen_in_ak (Mar 6, 2004)

mamasara,
no... I haven't seen your posts, but it's very reassuring to know that I'm not entirely mental









I often wonder to myself why I have such strong emotions related to my birth experience. I think part of it is because I know I'll never have another experience to try and "rectify" my last (I can't have any more children







) actually, that probably is exactly what it is.

It's just reassuring to know that there truly is a healing process (and I'm not talking strictly physical) and that it DOES take time. I guess only the people who have been through it can truly understand.... but then I run into people (very mainstream) who've been through it and think I'm nuts for even thinking bad about it???

Maybe I am nutty


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Icequeen_in_ak*
I know this is going to get really long, so please bear with me. I'm just so upset right now!!!

I know this is silly, but a co-worker of my DHs went into labor today. She was due in a couple of days and she worked the whole way through (my husband made a habit of telling me "yeah, she made it all the way to the end) like I'm suppose to feel some level of guilt for being placed on full bed rest at 21 weeks? But that isn't even my vent.

He said that he told her that he really was disappointed that he never got the "honey, it's time" experience. You see, my contractions started at 21 weeks, were held at bay with trebuteline (sp?) until week 35, and then I had contrax 3-5 minutes apart for the following 11 days before they started pitocin and then ultimately delivered via c-section.

Now here is my vent... I was talking this over with my mother (and other family members in the past, but I usually get the same response from them)... she told me "you never really had real labor"... EXCUSE ME??? 11 DAYS DOESN'T QUALIFY???? What??? It was fake??? She responded with, "no, you never got to pushing labor... that is the stuff that really hurts" So I guess my 11 days with no sleep (because they were painful enough that I couldn't sleep through them) and the fact that my stomach was cut open to bring this child out, doesn't qualify as "having experienced the pain of childbirth" And what is so bad... is part of me thinks "yeah, I didn't experience it".

I don't know why these comments still bug me so much, so long afterwards, but I'm seriously p*ssed off at my mother right now







And oddly enough, I'm finding myself very jealous of my DHs co-worker because her pregnancy and labor experience thus far couldn't be anymore text book....


I am pissed off for you. I think I will respond to this later but {{{hugs}}} for now!


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Icequeen_in_ak*
I often wonder to myself why I have such strong emotions related to my birth experience. I think part of it is because I know I'll never have another experience to try and "rectify" my last (I can't have any more children







) actually, that probably is exactly what it is.

It's just reassuring to know that there truly is a healing process (and I'm not talking strictly physical) and that it DOES take time. I guess only the people who have been through it can truly understand.... but then I run into people (very mainstream) who've been through it and think I'm nuts for even thinking bad about it???

I am SO sorry.







I'm sure this plays a huge role in your emotional recovery. You are grieving and you are entitled to grieve. No one can take that away from you and it is LEGITIMATE. You will naturally go through the whole range of grieving emotions, just as if you lost someone close to you. And for you, there is a whole other layer (the loss of future children), and I cannot even begin to comprehend what that must feel like to you.







But we can offer love, support, and an understanding ear.

Many of us here understand your grief over your lost birth experience, so it is a safe place to work through your emotions. And there are a lot of mainstream people (and dhs and moms and mils, etc.) who will think you're nuts. Ignore them. You are safe here in your feelings which are justified. And if you're nuts, then so are the rest of us.


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## Icequeen_in_ak (Mar 6, 2004)

Thanks to all of you!! I'm a really trying to work through all of this and it's so reassuring to know that I can express my feelings to you guys and I won't be judged or made to feel idiotic.

As far as working through the loss of future children, I try to remind myself that I am soooooo incredibly blessed to have this beautiful daughter of mine, who is strong, healthy and wonderful!!! I had 3 m/c's before her, so she truly is my miracle!!! I wish I could say that reminding myself of what I have makes it easier, but sometimes it still hurts. I suppose, just like everything else... it just takes time.

Thanks again to all of you WONDERFUL women!!!!!


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## Al Dente (Jan 8, 2004)

Icequeen-I'm a little late on replying to this...but just wanted to tell you that I got the same reaction from my dh. Had the nerve to tell me it wasn't like I delivered him or anything, they just cut him out of me. It's taken us a bit of time to heal from that comment, and he now knows it's a "don't go there" topic. Maybe have a conversation with your mom...I would, cuz for me it would just fester everytime I saw her if I didn't get it out.







to you mama...your dd is lucky to have such a sensitive, caring mom.

Rachel


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

I just want to add that whatever feelings each of us has about our cesareans, this is a *great* place to talk about it. Our feelings about these births can be pretty darned complex, and I really feel like this is one of those "takes one to know one" kind of thing... sometimes, people who haven't experienced cesarean births (like men, and women who've been fortunate enough to avoid them) just don't realize...


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Taking advantage of a momentary sleeping baby moment to say hi.

Physically, even though I'm 5 weeks PP, in some ways I feel worse than I did earlier. All my help went home after 3 1/2 weeks, so I've been having to do more. Liam's been a gassy, fussy little guy, and his favorite soothing position is uncomfortable for me. But so's a crying baby, so what's a mom to do?

Emotionally, things are also hard. As much as I agree that some of the DH's mentioned in this thread recently are insensitive jerks, I often feel that way about myself. I'm still really uncomfortable talking with other mom's about their birth experiences, because I feel like I never really had one. I can't talk about how I knew I was in labor or any of that. I never had a smidgen of labor. Heck, I never had any significant Braxton-Hicks or prelabor, for that matter. I woke up on the specified morning, and went in to have my baby cut out of me.

Maybe I should have waited to go into labor before having the section. Maybe I'd feel less cheated that way.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Tammy-- You aren't an "insensitive jerk". I think it is safe to say that you were robbed of something. I'm not going to lie. I think a lot of us were. It's just that a lot of us are farther out and have come to terms with it all. At least I have. It takes time. Your still new to the whole first pp c/b thing. (Incidently...your Liam was born on a great day!! My T was born on April 26th!!!)

For the first time I had someone ask me..."Aren't you glad you had a c/b with Bryce. He is so big!" I looked her dead in the face and said, "No" She was a little shocked because I could tell she expected to hear me say yes. Now granted the irl is only 16 but I gave her her first lesson in childbirth. NEVER let someone tell you you HAVE to have a c/b for baby size. Her mom agreed, her last baby was 10 lbs 13 oz after having 2 babes under 8 pounds







, and she gave birth vag.

No, I'm not GLAD I had a c/b. It wasn't what I wanted but I think I made the best out of both situations. Now I'm living with the fear that I'll never get the chance to do something different. I want another baby someday and dh doesn't. We've already had 2 more than we planned and 1 more than he wanted. If I ever do get pg again I WILL vbac. I know it. I have more of a desire to vbac now than I ever did... weird how it hits now that I have had a repeat!


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

You know, it was really weird for me to discuss childbirth after I had ds1 (who was a C). So many people just don't understand cesareans and all their implications. And I didn't have a smidgen of labor either. I *was* really glad ds was okay (I was really overdue and he went into distress--frankly, I feel lucky they caught it in time). Even though I didn't really feel bad about having a C (didn't enjoy the recovery--ug--but I felt the C was necessary and not entirely horrible), I felt like I was from another planet when other mamas discussed labor and vaginal childbirth, because I went such a different route.

I still feel a little different, even though I just had a VBAC. I had a really long labor (38 hrs, plus several rounds of "warming up" in the weeks preceeding). I had some interventions I had wanted to avoid initially, but which I feel were necessary and/or helpful in the end in achieving a VBAC and avoiding a repeat C (I had an epidural after reaching exhaustion after the first 28 hrs or so, I had a teeny bit of pitocin to keep things going, I had a small episiotomy to slow down a tear that started going in a really bad direction). I live in a pretty darned crunchy place, and a lot of my peer group does home birth. I'm really pleased with how things went, but I'm still not sure that I can discuss this birth and "fit in", if you know what I mean. Even though I did a really great thing--I had a VBAC--I still didn't achieve what would be a "perfect" birth in their eyes. I'm getting to the point where I'm accepting how *my* body does pregnancy and childbirth...


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## Jessica36 (Oct 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Icequeen_in_ak*
Now here is my vent... I was talking this over with my mother (and other family members in the past, but I usually get the same response from them)... she told me "you never really had real labor"... EXCUSE ME??? 11 DAYS DOESN'T QUALIFY???? What??? It was fake??? She responded with, "no, you never got to pushing labor... that is the stuff that really hurts" So I guess my 11 days with no sleep (because they were painful enough that I couldn't sleep through them) and the fact that my stomach was cut open to bring this child out, doesn't qualify as "having experienced the pain of childbirth" And what is so bad... is part of me thinks "yeah, I didn't experience it".

Ok with ds#1 I had constant contractions from like 23 weeks. They also had to be stopped and I was on bedrest also. My old OB told me towards the end that they weren't real contractions since I wasn't dialating. I pointed out that they hurt like hell and spiked to 100's, so they were real, just not productive. So I can always say I was in labor, and I experienced productive labor also, for a few months, it just wasn't productive. I wanted to SMACK him everytime he said that. After I corrected him about 10 times he changed his phrasing with everyone! So my point, you were in labor for 11 days it just wasn't as "productive" as it needed to be.

HUGS


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

OTF- notice anything new under your name?









I was going to tag IOF with hers, but someone beat me to it, so Cynthia asked if I wanted to get anyone else- and I thought of you







our resident "rebel".


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## Jessica36 (Oct 14, 2003)

I LOVE IT!!!!!! Thanks!


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Nope Jessica- someone else tagged you









I got OTF- (OnTheFence).


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## TexasSuz (Mar 4, 2002)

Well ladies looks like I am














. So I guess I will be having my seconded scheduled c-birth in January. I have never even felt a contraction -weird! I am so glad I have you gals to help prepare me for this birth. I really want it to go better than the last time. I know more now than I did then but I am still scared.

I'm a little nervous how my AP mom's group will react to my birth. The homebirth mom get praised for their strength and all but no one ever says that a c-birth mom was strong or brave! And I refuse to even explain to them why I am having a c-birth. I should not have to explain my medical problems to them or defend my actions!

I'll definately be on this thread more!

Susan


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## Icequeen_in_ak (Mar 6, 2004)

Congrats!!!!

I think so many times in AP circles they give us the 20 questions about c-births because they may feel that we've been led astray and don't know that we can have VBAC or something.

I COMPLETELY understand why you don't feel the necessity to explain yourself though! And I also completely concur with your statement that the homebirth moms are strong and courageous... what about us??? I think the recovery from being cut in half, trying to mend our bodies on very little sleep and usually with very little help should be COMMENDED!

Who ever said c-section was taking the easy way out is an IDIOT!


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

TexasSuz-- CONGRATS!!

I took an hpt tonight. It was negative..PRAISE GOD!! I would love another baby but I'm only 4 months pp. I feel like crap and I'm feeling off. So, I'm hoping that maybe I'm just getting ready to start ovulating. If I still feel like this next week I'll test again.

How is everyone doing??


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Susan




























CONGRATULATIONS!


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## Jessica36 (Oct 14, 2003)

Congrats Susan. We will give you all the support you need!


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Congrats, TexasSuz!

I understand why you don't want to have to explain to your AP group, and don't think you should if you don't want to. But I do think that it's good for us c-section moms to tell our stories and explain our actions. I had the hardest time finding supportive information about c-sections online - everything was either "Here's how to avoid an unnecessary c-s" or all about VBAC. Sometimes there are good reasons, and I think it's important for people to learn about and understand that.

I've been going to the "Mothering Arts" group that's held at my midwive's office. It's been hard for me sometimes, since it's mostly been homebirth moms, and of course they all talk all about their births. But I talk about mine too, and I think it's helped to make people realize that yes, this could happen to them. I know that I was in total denial - that wasn't going to happen to me... And then it did.


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## TexasSuz (Mar 4, 2002)

Thanks everyone. I will think about talking about my c-births, but the last few times I did people tired to convince me that despite what my doctors have told me since I was 12 I could have a vaginal birth! I mean have they looked at my insides? NO! My doctor has! Makes me so mad!

Anyway, I am ok with having 2 scheduled c-births and never going into labor. my doctor did let me go 42 weeks last time so that I could feel what labor was like before my c-birth but I never went into labor. Oh well.

I have a beautiful son and that is all that matters. I am already stressed about being away from him for 3 nights while I have this baby! It will be harder on me than him I'm sure! But I have until January to prepare for that!

Susan

Megan - my son and your 2nd son have the same name (even spelled alike)! I love that name!


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

I actually agree with Tammylc... I think the first time I really realized that maybe other mamas need to hear about stories like mine was when we were talking about birth at my LLL meeting, and my LLL leader encouraged me to share my own experience (she knew the story ahead of time). That was a really good forum in which to talk about it, because of course it's moderated, and everyone is encouraged to be tolerant and open-minded...


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

Hey, all, AnaNicole had her baby!!

Here is the email I got from daddy:

_Hi all,
Sorry for the delay on this, we've been a touch busy!
Here is Graysen Christopher Moss Riedel

He came in a 7lbs 3oz, Friday morning at 8:19am via C-Section.
The doctor gaged that he was about 35 weeks old, and a bit underdeveloped in the lungs, and so they transferred him to Petriatrics ICU to help him establish his breathing.
When I left this morning at 10:30am, they were going to try him on room oxygen for a while to see how he does. Otherwise, he is doing really well, along with Ana.
At this point, Ana should be getting out of the hospital on Monday, maybe Tuesday... hopefully Graysen will get to come home with her.

Thanks all!

Chris (proud daddy)_


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## Jessica36 (Oct 14, 2003)

Thanks for the update!


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## Al Dente (Jan 8, 2004)

Yay TexasSuz and yay AnaNicole and Graysen!







And Suz-I agree, you should NOT have to justify or explain why you are having a c/b.

I don't know why I can't keep up with this thread! I forget to look in Birth and Beyond because TAO is so busy and I have limited time at the puter.

Things are going great here. I'm fully recovered, got the go ahead for fun with dh (but it hurt so we stopped-anyone have experience with that?), Darian is growing like a beautiful flower and I have another month off of work. Life is good.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RacheePoo*
(but it hurt so we stopped-anyone have experience with that?)


I did, but we don't let it stop us. Once things... get moving... the pain lessens and disappears. Your dh just has to realize to be easy the first few times. Bfing dries ya up pretty good too.


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## DetroitMom (Apr 15, 2004)

I always feel bad when I read these posts because I didn't have any problems with my c-section.

I had done a ton of research because I had high blood pressure throughout my pregancy and knew going into the induction that there was a 50% chance of having a c-section. After being inducted for 2 days and still being at 2 cm and -2 stage, it was my call to have the c-section. I had a spinal, they "showed" me Colton right after he was born (without my glasses I can't see past the end of my nose so kind of pointless







). The hosiptal I divered in only had an NICU, all healthy babies stay with the mother at all times. We both were in the recovery together along with my 2 BIL's, my parents and DH's parents. BILs even got his first pee on video, one almost got hit







. I had a great birth experence and an easy recovery. Having to stay home and not drive my car for 2 weeks drove me nuts. I was back to my normal self about 7 days after the c-section and after being on bedrest I was ready to be out in the world again.


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## AnaNicole (Jan 30, 2004)

Thanks Pam!!! I will post my birth story when I can use both hands to type!


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

DetriotMom-- My first c/b was pretty much the same thing. I didn't have any real problems (except horrid itching after the c/b and a baby that constantly screamed!!) They only kept babes in the nursery who were asleep or sick. As soon as they made a peep they brought him back...which was often... it was expected that you would room in. My second c/b was amazing...except B had breathing issues and was in an O2 tent for 30 hours







and they knicked his eyelid







) but my recovery was amazing and no itching either!!

Ana--Good to see you!! Congrats on the little one!!!


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Had my 6-week postpartum check up today. Everything looks good. I'm still having this painful "pulling" sensation on my right side. Dr. says it might be adhesions. Alternately, he said that sometimes a nerve gets stitched up in the uterine stitching, and it can cause some pain. If it's still bothering me in a month, I can go in for a steroid shot that should fix it up - he called it a "trigger point injection." Anyone know anything about that?

Yesterday was DH's birthday and six weeks, so hubbie and I attempted "celebrate." Didn't go so well - my painful place limited the positions, and even with a ton of lube, things were too sore inside to keep going. God knows when we'll have a chance to try again - last night we dropped Liam off with friends for a few hours.


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

bump


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tammylc*
Yesterday was DH's birthday and six weeks, so hubbie and I attempted "celebrate." Didn't go so well - my painful place limited the positions, and even with a ton of lube, things were too sore inside to keep going. God knows when we'll have a chance to try again - last night we dropped Liam off with friends for a few hours.


Wow... you found someone to keep a 6 week old for a bit... thats nice!!

The lack of lube is the worst thing about pp sex. I'm almost 4.5 months pp and the lube is just now returning. It was terrible in the beginning, with pain, but now there is none. For us it was getting past the pain. Even though the first time hurt like heck the second time was much better


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

susan and ananicole, congrats!!









hello to everyone else!

i just got my medical records, and i felt like throwing up when i started reading them! ( i took a break from them) so i might read a little more today. i knew this would be hard for me. i've already spotted things that were wrong!

btw, amy, did you get yours yet?


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

It is sickening, mamasarah, especially when you realize that your future medical care will be based on those WRONG records!! Mind-boggling. I need to get mine out and re-read them (I've been meaning to for over a month, now, but just can't seem to make myself do it). The first time through, I had to just focus on the incorrect things that I could have changed (you know you CAN have them changed, right?) and that helped me get through it.

This thread has kind of slowed down lately. Anyone seen Kim (OnTheFence, I think)?

Kinsey


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## kimberlylibby (Dec 28, 2003)

tammylc: I don't know about the injections, but my sil had HORRIBLE HORRIBLE pulling pain after her c/s. She thought she had ruptured or something. About 10 weeks pp it just stopped. She's pg again and has had it off and on through this pg (she's umm, 8 weeks behind me and I'm 32 weeks so she's umm, 26? Oops, 24 weeks?). I hope it goes away soon! YEOUCH!

Well, as for me, my pre-e is back and looks like we might be having our c/s earlier than scheduled (July 30 is the planned date). We're talking about c/s at 34 weeks if my bp doesn't get some control.... yeeeesh. I am really hoping to hold out longer... I want a nice fat chunky healthy baby!!

Sooo, that's me.

Kimberly


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

I'm sorry to hear that, Kimberly. I'm hoping your body gets back on track so you can cook that babe longer!

Kinsey


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

What, if any, science is there behind the "four hour rule"?


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## wombat (Nov 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tammylc*
Had my 6-week postpartum check up today. Everything looks good. I'm still having this painful "pulling" sensation on my right side. Dr. says it might be adhesions. Alternately, he said that sometimes a nerve gets stitched up in the uterine stitching, and it can cause some pain. If it's still bothering me in a month, I can go in for a steroid shot that should fix it up - he called it a "trigger point injection." Anyone know anything about that?


I went through 2 weeks of absolute hellish pain before the docs found out they'd sewn a nerve into my sutures. It was worse than labor and I had a painful back labor. I had trouble lying down, standing up and moving. Breathing hurt sometimes. If I just sat hunched in a chair and didn't move, that was ok. Looking after my newborn was hell. And 2 weeks pp I was needing to take more painkillers than when I was in hospital. Anyway I think it's a matter of ruling out other probs before they decide it's a nerve stitched into a suture - I had pelvic exams, blood tests, even a CAT scan, was admitted into hospital before they figured it out.

I got the shot - a local anaesthetic followed by the steriod shot. Don't remember the shots hurting - maybe because to find the right spot, they had to poke me so it hurt. And um that pain made me forget about anything else they could possibly do to me. I would have let them do absolutely anything to take that pain away.

And the result was pretty well instantaneous - no pain. I could move, bend a bit, sleep lying down at night.

But I was 2 weeks pp. The docs told me that the stitches dissolve in 6 weeks and then the problem would resolve itself anyway. I wasn't going to endure another 4 weeks of this pain so I got the shots. I'd check with your doctor why he thinks you'd be having the 'nerve sewn into a suture pain' at 6 weeks pp. Haven't your stitches dissolved by now?


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

applejuice - I must have missed something. What's the "four hour rule"?

Kinsey


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamasarah*
btw, amy, did you get yours yet?

I got my records from my OB's office but they're pretty skimpy (accurate, though, near as I can tell). It was an uneventful pg so I didn't think I'd find anything there. It is missing page 2 of the Operative Report (the page with all the important stuff, of course), and I just keep forgetting to call them to have them send it. I figure I'm due to get the hospital records any day now (I sent the $$ a week or two ago), so I'll just see it in there, hopefully and avoid making the call (I just don't feel like talking to anyone at the OB's office, yk). I really don't know if I'll be able to stomach reading them any time soon, though. I started flipping through The VBAC Companion last night (in a moment of more rational feelings about my c/b I inter-library loaned it from my library and I just got it) and had to stop b/c it just depressed me. There was this whole section on posterior presentation and what to do about it and NONE of those things were done to/for me. I so wish I had had a doula or had done more research on malpresentation. But I have to let that go ...

AnaNicole, congrats







and







to little Greysen. Hope you are both doing well.

My external scar itches like mad nearly everyday. Is this normal 7 months pp? I've tried Vit. E, lotion, etc. and nothing helps. Some days it really drives me crazy.

Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well.


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## Icequeen_in_ak (Mar 6, 2004)

I'm almost 8 months PP, and from what I've read, the itching is nerves repairing/reconnecting. They say the symptoms vary from itching to sharp pin poke pains. I know I still have some numb areas and I've also read it can take years for all of the nerves to repair, or they may never. Encouraging huh?


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jess7396*
OTF- notice anything new under your name?









I was going to tag IOF with hers, but someone beat me to it, so Cynthia asked if I wanted to get anyone else- and I thought of you







our resident "rebel".










Thanks so much!








I just came to check the boards. My work is taking me away from here and I do not have time to post, but wanted to say thanks and HEY! to everyone.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

OTF-









I am so glad to "see" you, I was starting to worry that you were mad about the DDDDC. I was going to tag you Cesarean Goddess, but was hoping your senior member title would be up already.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Icequeen_in_ak*
I know I still have some numb areas and I've also read it can take years for all of the nerves to repair, or they may never. Encouraging huh?

Joy! Its so embarrasing sometimes b/c it itches so intensely, and usually when I'm in the most public of places (oh, the checkout at the grocery store or something). And its not like its a discreet place to scratch, yk?


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## Terion (Nov 28, 2003)

I really glad this board is here, but why do we have only one thread, is c-sec so frowned upon here at mdc, some of us dream of natural births but for one reason or another it doesn't happen that way....my first c/s was because I was young and scared too much so to fight the doctor on it, the second was because I was pre-e and though we tried a two day induction my baby was stuck, come to find out she was turned a little sideways, so I had c/s #2, now I'm preg. again with #3 and would love a vbac but can't find a doctor or midwife that will let me try because my last c/s will have only been 15 months from this birth....


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

terion - good to see you. c/s is not "frowned upon" here at MDC (at least not to my knowledge - I can't imagine the caring ladies here being unsupportive of a mama who needed one). However, MDC is a great resource for natural birth, and I think it's fairly common knowledge here that a lot of c/s are NOT needed. The c/s rate in the USA is ridiculously high, and I see MDC as a place where women are more educated about birth than more "mainstream" sites, so therefore are more able to avoid unnecessary c/s.

Maybe the reason there is only one thread regarding c/s is because there isn't a lot of need for another one? TBH, *I* don't see a need for more than one ongoing thread. What exactly were you looking for? In this one thread we've got support, sympathy, knowledge, experience, all in one place!

If I were planning another c/birth, I could come here and have any questions answered (or be pointed in the direction to find my own answers). Or if a mama has questions while recovering from a c/birth, she can come here for support as well.

Were there specific questions you had? The mamas here are very helpful.

Kinsey


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## AnaNicole (Jan 30, 2004)

Just venturing back after many days just staring at Graysen. He's so perfect, and starting to develop a little attitude as well!

Thanks to everyone for your kind thoughts and congratulations. All went well, considering. I can't believe it's already been 11 days!

I'm still working up Gray's birth story--not there yet. There's so much to process, so much to think through. I keep asking Chris for details to fill in the gaps of my own memory and I am SO thankful that I was able to ward off the overzealous anesthetist who INSISTED that her standard of care was to give me something to help me "relax" after Gray was born, though my birth plan specified that I didn't want anything like that (thanks, OTF--I think it was your birthplsn I drew that from).

"Sweetheart" she said, condescendingly, "You are going to be cut from here to here (demonstrating on her own abdomen). You NEED this."

I was loopy from the Vioxx they gave me and was unable to form a cogent rebuttal except to say I don't want it! I'm not happy about that! My midwife mentioned this to my OB who apparently talked to her and told her that if I didn't want it I shouldn't have to have it!







So, I didn't get it and I DO remember all that happened after he was born and whisked away. I am SO grateful for that, it really helped me with my emotional recovery.

To the anesthetist's credit, I didn't feel a thing when she gave me the spinal!

Cranky babe, more later!


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Terion-- The thought of a c/b forum has been tossed around MANY times. It isn't going to happen for the good of the ENTIRE board. yes, it is looked down on by some. But just to save you time (since youa re new) asking about it on the boards will only stir up strife and resentment (many have tried and many have failed







)

I do not think it is needed either. Yes, it would be nice to have more of a forum where we could have stickies on what drugs you can have, birthplans, and the most natural things for repeats and first time c/bs. But it does nothing but cause judgment on everyone's part.

If it makes you feel any better about it. MDC has become more accepting of it. Since it seems that more of the c/bs are from women who were planning a natural birth and ended with a c/b for one reason or another. It seems to me that fewer of them here at MDC are happening from mis-information since both sides (those who have had c/bs and those who haven't) are insistant that anyone with questions be answered.

You can feel free to post a c/b question on the Birth and Beyond forum and they will be answered truthfully and, more often than not, respectfully.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Only a few minor errors. It appears, though, that if anyone knew ds was posterior, they didn't bother to note it until I was pushing, which is the same time they bothered to tell me.

Also, it appears that I was spilling lots of protein and ketones in my urine, and that got worse as labor progressed and after the c/s. My bp also was increasing as labor progressed and post-c/s. Is that indicative of pre-e/toxemia? I know I was retaining a ton of fluids the last 6 weeks or so of my preg., and I was very swollen (especially, feet, ankles, hands, & face).

Anyway the big blah in my records ... I read the missing page 2 of the operative report and I'm trying to figure out single vs. double layer sutures. I'm fairly certain I asked for double layer, but I just can't remember and when I think I asked, dh wasn't yet in the room (by the time the c/s occurred I'd been awake for about 36 hours and in labor for 23 of those -- was not functioning well). In any event, here is what my recs. say ... I'm thinking single layer, which makes me







.

Quote:

The uterine incision was then repaired with 0 chromic suture in a running locked fashion. ... The uterus was returned to the abdomen ... The rectus muscle was reapproximated with 2-0 Vicryl suture in an interrupted fashion. The fascial incision was closed with 0 Vicryl suture in a running fashion. The subcutaneous tissue was closed with 3-0 Vicryl suture in a subcuticular fashion.
What do you think?


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## Terion (Nov 28, 2003)

guess I'm not up on c/s technical stuff hope you don't mind me asking, about the difference between the single or double sutures, and why double is more desirable...


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Terion*
guess I'm not up on c/s technical stuff hope you don't mind me asking, about the difference between the single or double sutures, and why double is more desirable...

No problem.

This is my understanding ...

Back in the old days (pre-1980's?) all surgeons stitched back the uterus using a double layer of sutures b/c it was believed to be the best suturing technique available. The problem with it was it elongated surgery time and could lead to add'l blood loss. So, drs. developed a single layer suturing technique which decreased surgical time and purportedly, blood loss. At the same time single layer suturing became "the norm", VBACs also rose in favorability as well as medical inductions w/prostaglandin gels and pitocin. Well, low and behold, the uterine rupture rate went way up and VBAC fear with it. So the question became, why the rise in rupture rates?

The answer is two-fold ... all of the induction techniques increase the likelihood of uterine rupture. In addition, a smallish study suggested that the single suture technique also contributes to a greater likelihood of uterine rupture. So, even though it isn't conclusive that double layer sutures are substantially better than single layer, it is typically recommended that women who desire VBACs in the future have double layer sutures as sort of an extra precautionary measure. In addition, they should avoid all induction or labor augmentation techniques (i.e., pit or p/gels) to decrease the risk of rupture. That said, the rate isn't all that different (I don't think -- someone correct me if I'm wrong) between fully natural VBACs (no pit or p/gels) with single or double layer sutures, although double is considered "better" and seemingly less "risky."

Did that make any sense at all?







:


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Four Hour Rule:

the arbritrary rule that hospitals have for taking the healthy baby born by caesarean section away to the neonatal nursery for observation for *four hours* while the mother is in recovery.

My only question is - on what scientific evidence is this routine based on?


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

applejuice - I've never heard of that. I can't imagine (given the lack of evidence-based medicine regarding childbirth) there needs to be any evidence for this to happen.

My personal experience was that DS was taken to the newborn nursery (I wouldn't say "for observation", since they didn't) while I was kept in recovery. I was supposed to be in recovery for an hour - it ended up being longer, due to the nurses' laziness. I was brought DS immediately upon my return to my room.

Considering how restrictive my hospital was, I have to think that if this rule was very common (ie, they'd ever heard of it), they would have tried to enforce it. Evidence supporting it or not!

Did this happen to you? I call BS on that rule!









Kinsey


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## wombat (Nov 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *applejuice*
Four Hour Rule:

the arbritrary rule that hospitals have for taking the healthy baby born by caesarean section away to the neonatal nursery for observation for *four hours* while the mother is in recovery.

My only question is - on what scientific evidence is this routine based on?

This happened to me. I birthed at a major military teaching hospital - the L&D was quite progressive (had rooming in, no formula ads or gifts, LCs and midwives on staff....) but they had this stupid hospital policy that all babies born by c/s HAD to go to the Observation Nursery for 4 hours. I think the reasoning is that c/s babies have more fluid in their lungs because they didn't get 'squeezed out' for want of a better way to put it. But this didn't apply to my dd - I was in labor for 24 hours before they did the c/s. And her Apgars were 8 and 9.

I was told pre surgery that after 1 hour in Recovery, I could go see my dd. Well no one would take me. Suddenly there were no nurses anywhere to be found. I was dumped in an ante partum room (post partum rooms were all full) and didn't see my dd again for 5 hours.

I'd really love to know what scientific evidence this rule is based on. God forbid I ever have to birth in a hospital again but if I do, I want to be prepared.


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

I'm so sorry, Wombat! That's horrible (and disgusting). So six hours from birth to seeing your daughter? What were they thinking?

Kinsey


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

No, kinsey43, this did not happen to me - I was fortunate that things worked out for me in this department of my life and I was able to have my four at home. Praise G-d for this one blessing!

However, my three younger sisters who are mothers did have caesarean sections and I was a childbirth educator for a while.

I always have felt very bad for mothers who have had to fight off hospital regulations and interventions to just hold their own baby ater carrying the infant in their own bodies for so many months.

So sad.

It is a sad commentary on our culture.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

I was very fortunate to deliver at a hospital without a 4 hour rule, but the first 2 times (same hospital both times) I had to wait until I was out of recovery and dh went with the babes to the reg. nursery. I saw them each in about an hour (actually I held them both on the OR table for a bit before they went to the nursery). This last time, the baby and dh stayed with me, and that was better, although I wasn't able to hold him long while they were finishing.

A 4 hour rule would make me







. There really is no good reason that a baby should need to go for any length of time, so long as babe is healthy and has no problems. What a huge detriment that would be to BFing and bonding.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

I was subject to this rule (or my hospital's version of it). DS was born at 8:08pm and I finally got to hold him/see him at 12:15am, so I didn't even get to hold him on his birthday.







They wouldn't even let dh hold him (and he didn't realize he could argue with them about that). And ds was very healthy at birth (Apgars of 9 & 9).

I'm very resentful b/c we did have bfing issues and in retrospect, I think ds was "confused" about who his mother was. I just get so upset when I realize he was left on a brightly lit warming table by himself in no one's arms, probably crying, for the first few hours of his life. Makes me sick.

I want a do over.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

I've never heard of the 4 hour rule.

Tracy never left my side. He stayed in the or till I went to recovery. When I was wheeled out he was in my arms! He nursed about 45 minutes after he was born and has been with me since!

Bryce was a little different. He was in the OR for most of the time. They took him to the nursery to be weighed and measured and such. I was taken to recovery and to recover (in our room for our stay) and they sai dit would 45 minutes before B would be there. I guess to observe. But they were bakc in 5 minutes because he was latching on to everything that came near his face







He nursed for almost an hour the first time. It was after that tey saw his breathing problem and took him away


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Henry's_Mamma*
There was this whole section on posterior presentation and what to do about it and NONE of those things were done to/for me. I so wish I had had a doula or had done more research on malpresentation. But I have to let that go ...
.

UUUUUUUUUUUGhh, i so kwym. all through my records it said "persistent OP" and my midwife did absolutely nothing to encourage me to change positions to help the baby move. i know it is so hard to not look in hindsite, but you just have to try to move forward.
one of the things that made me so mad about mine was that my midwife wrote, "discussed risks of cesarean with patient, such as infection, hemmorage, damage to surrounding organs"....what a bunch of crap that was. had she talked to us about this, i never would've consented so easily.

it is so wierd, i really feel a tremendous amount of closure since i read over my records. i don't even care if they're incomplete. i just feel like i have the info i wanted and now i can move on.

that's not the reason i haven't been here though, just a screwed up computer right now. i wanted to say hello to everyone! i missed being here!

btw, welcome, terion! hope you'll feel at home here with us.

****amy, that sounds pretty close to what mine read about the suture. i'll check for sure. mine did say very clearly though that my uterus was sewn in two layers...i don't know if this is something they have to say on there or not.


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamasarah*
one of the things that made me so mad about mine was that my midwife wrote, "discussed risks of cesarean with patient, such as infection, hemmorage, damage to surrounding organs"....what a bunch of crap that was. had she talked to us about this, i never would've consented so easily.

My records said this, too, and like your situation, it just was NOT true. I actually went back to my OB's office and spoke with a "patient representative", told her it was untrue (and pointed out various other errors in the records), and had it changed!

Not that it makes much difference, I still had the c/s, and I'm sure they're still putting that in patient's chart without actually doing it, but it made me feel better.

Kinsey


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## LisaG (Feb 23, 2003)

bumpity bump bump


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

My friend Maria had her second baby by repeat c/b on friday! They named her Nadia. Her first c/b came after 24 hours of labor. She had full blown toxemia and were trying to induce her at 36 weeks. She had no cervix ripening and had never had a contraction until the pit was started. Poor thing never had a chance! She had no bp issues this time but had no interest in vbacing. So, it was scheduled up front.

She is so excited to have Nadia in her arms!!!


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

nak

Never heard of the 4 hr rule. Sounds *hideous*. With ds1, dh went with him to the nursery 1st (it was an emergency C, yes, they wanted to make sure everything was okay), then they brought him to recovery, and I nursed him. I think we may have been separated ~45 min. I have a close friend who was separated from her baby for *10 HOURS* after her C. Can you believe that??? It's friggin' crazy. And they gave him formula, etc. (when she told them not to). She was pretty upset (and upset about the unexpected C, too, poor thing).

We took digital photos of the records (hanging conveniently on the side of ds1's bassinet) in the hospital...


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

Hiya mamas,
I've been reading the thread but too busy to post until now. I just have to get something off my chest. I feel like a jerk and I'm jealous I guess. Our friend's partner came over the other day to tell us about their perfect homebirth. I'm happy for them but I also can't help feeling a little jealous/upset. Their midwife was my assistant midwife last year. She had just learned a non- invavsive technique to turn op babies. I have read about this technique since dd's birth and was upset that neither of my midwives knew about this at the time. The technique worked and the baby turned. I'm really glad my friend didn't have to go through what I went through. However, I'm remembering a comment she made to a friend of mine whom I told the technique. The pregnant friend said "oh my midwife would never do anything so manipulative or intrusive. We don't want anything like that". I kept thinking I bet you would want her to do something if you were in a similiar situation. okay I'm to go and get out of my bad attittude. thanks for reading this.


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## prmom (Jun 14, 2004)

Hello y'all! I am so glad to see this thread. I just want to say that I totally understand the jeaous/upset feeling regarding hearing others "succesful" birth stories. My ds#1 was op which we did not find out until I pushed for a couple hours. I did tons of research when I was pg with ds#2 who is now nearly 3 weeks old. I did everything to avoid having ds#2 positioned wrong. I was very psyched for a Vbac and wanted to be an example to those around me who scheduled c/secs. Unfortunately I ended up with emergency c/sec #2. Needless to say I was glad for the chance to labor, but dissapointed with the result. I had the same midwife for both labors and felt very supported in my choice to vbac. I don't understand the "4 hour" thing. I felt so good about the fact that I was able to nurse my babes immediately. I do understand though that hospitals function with different policies. Anyways...just glad to be able to come somewhere for support!

:bf


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## Icequeen_in_ak (Mar 6, 2004)

prmom -







elcome

wrensmom - I know exactly how you feel and I think it's only normal to feel a certain level of frustration and jealousy. We all had our "perfect" birth experience expectations and I can pretty much bet that most of us here, didn't get what we were expecting. I still struggle with my feelings because I can't have anymore kiddos... so I REALLY feel like I got ripped off in the "perfect birth experience fairy tale". All I can do is remind myself of how lucky I am to have such a beautiful, healthy baby!! and that how she got here doesn't matter. (I tell myself this, but it's obvious that in some deep down manner, it really still does matter... I'm sure it's something that will pass with time).

Okay... I'm obviously still conflicted...









I just wanted you to know that you aren't alone in your feelings.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Yup, it sucks and it isn't fair!
I'm the only one around (except the MDC moms in my area I "just" met)even remotely interested in natural living and I am the ONLY one that had a c/b! The others were all induced early for size or convience and had no issues in labor or delivery.


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

Icequeen said

Quote:

We all had our "perfect" birth experience expectations and I can pretty much bet that most of us here, didn't get what we were expecting.
... and that's why I love coming back here. Y'all are understanding about that and very supportive.


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## Icequeen_in_ak (Mar 6, 2004)

I just find it so comforting to know that I'm not the only one that still experiencing a sense of loss. My family is convinced I'm a whack job because it still bothers me.

It's so wonderful to this group of mamas!


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

Oh thanks mamas. Just voicing my disgruntlement made me feel better. As KKmama said earlier " it takes one to know one". So I figured yall would know how I felt. I am lucky to have a happy healthy little one. I'm thankful for that. I'm also thankful for the support I find here.
its_our_family:
I'm the only one around (except the MDC moms in my area I "just" met)even remotely interested in natural living and I am the ONLY one that had a c/b!
Yep I know what you mean. Slightly different situation but. . . After I had dd I took her back to my old place of employment and one woman said to me "Oh isn't that funny that you planned a natural homebirth and ended up a c/section." Ummmm, okay thanks for your tactfulness. I almost started crying.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

I have often felt as you all do ... grieving over my lost birth experience, jealous of others experiences (esp. those w/the exact opposite parenting and living philosophies as me -- so not fair), etc. I get annoyed at my cousin who asked for a c/s after a third of the amount of labor I went through. I get annoyed at my friend who got an epi. at 4cms and had a v/b w/no tearing or episiotomy. Everyone thinks I'm nuts b/c I'm mad that I had a c/s ("but you had a healthy baby and that's all that matters") and I'm mad that I didn't have the natural birth I wanted and planned ("why have all that pain if you can have drugs"). And I'm annoyed that I often feel on the outskirts of my natural living/AP IRL community b/c I did have a c/s despite being fairly well-educated before ds's birth. Its a really weird place to be in.

That's why I like it here. You all get it.


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## LisaG (Feb 23, 2003)

Oh ladies,

What good timing on the birth jealousy posts. As dh and I gear up to ttc next month I'm once again having to face the "monster" of a probably c/s







: Working on making peace with it and accepting that my body needs that kind of help rather than being p*ssed that my OB (who I really like) won't give me a TOL due to my previous uterine surgery. I could drive myself crazy and miss all the fun of pregnancy quite easily with the grief of the loss of v/b. And then part of me's like "oh, quit whining, you get to have a baby, and there's so many who would gladly give their arm if all they had to go through was a c/s". Arrrgggghhh.

It just seems so friggin' unfair that my whole life I'd planned on a homebirth, it really mattered to me, and yet it appears that there's a different plan. Which reminds me of that joke "Want to make god/goddess laugh? Make a plan."









Such is life, and I guess I'd better get over my temper tantrum or I'll miss out on a lot of good stuff too. But I swear, if anyone IRL makes some idiotic comment like "oh well be glad you get to miss out on labor" I just might get violent









Oh well - thanks for understanding and lending your ear









LisaG


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LisaG*
As dh and I gear up to ttc next month ... I could drive myself crazy and miss all the fun of pregnancy quite easily with the grief of the loss of v/b.

First,





















.

Second, don't feel bad about grieving your lost v/b. It is ok to feel that way. But you are correct, don't grieve too much ... preg. is a lot of fun (for the most part, if you can avoid morning sickness and severe heartburn) and no matter what, I personally wouldn't trade my ds for any birth experience in the world. Yes, I would've loved to have a v/b, but not if that meant not having my ds, iykwim.


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## prmom (Jun 14, 2004)

I am sure most of you are familiar with this book, but part of what help me get through my grief (though it is still in process) is "Silent Knife" I believe that is what it is called. There are a lot of accounts of women grieving about their labor experience. I try to tell myself to "get over it" but I still find myself apologizing to myself and my dh for "failing". He is so supportive and affirms my attempts at trying for a natural birth and then reminds me that my two ds are in no way failures.

Just a side note... One of my favorite little sayings from the book is something like this..."a c/b is like running a marathon and then having someone trip you before you get to the finish line." While this saying isn't necesarily affirming of my birth experience, it helps me to validate my feelings about my c/b.








Thanks for making me feel welcomed here!


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

I too am experiencing lots of birth jealousy. I just gave all of my homebirth supplies to a neighbor who is planning a homebirth with my midwives. I'm glad someone will get some use out of them, but damnit - I wanted to use them!

I live in a cohousing community, so we know all of our neighbors. Two are pregnant right now, and more are trying, so I'm going to be encountering birth jealousy a lot. Hopefully the repeated exposure will make it easier?

People don't seem to understand that the birth and the baby are two separate things. Yes, I'm thrilled that DS is healthy. But that doesn't prevent me from mourning the loss of my homebirth or being upset that it had to happen.

When I was doing everything I could to turn my breech baby so I wouldn't have to have a c-section, I got all sorts of insensitive remarks - people telling me that at least my baby would be born with a round head, and implying that I was lucky because this way I'd get to skip labor - like that was a good thing. I had one coworker tell me that "c-sections are no big deal" after I'd sent an email to the entire office explaining my situation and how sad and worried I was. Another coworker and friend had warned me that she was going to say that - good thing, or I might have slapped her.

And as someone said as while ago, I feel like I'm from another planet when it comes to talking to other women about birth. Especially since I had a scheduled c-section for my first baby. Everything I know about labor is still theoretical, and that makes it hard to relate.

Anyway, I could say "yah, me too" to just about everything that's been written here, but DS is upset and not responding to DH's attempts to console him, so I guess we better go nurse and get off to bed!


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## Katie's Momma (Jun 11, 2004)

I too had panned a natural birth but that was not to be. I laboured a very long time and was lucky to have a doctor and nurse who were very supportive of me wanting to keep trying on my own.

However, when the baby started to distress, an emerg c/s was performed.

That was over 3 years ago and I still feel angry and guilty.

To make things worse, DD was sick at birth and was taken immediately into the "Special Care Nursery" so it was almost 3 hours before I got to see and hold her and nurse.

It was an incredibly disappointing experience. I know that the end result is that I have my healthy, beautiful girl, and I know that I tried very hard to birth her on my own, but no matter how much I tell myself that, I still feel like I failed her and as a woman.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katie's Momma*
I still feel like I failed her and as a woman.









I do not feel like I failed my sons but I do feel like I failed as a woman. It is a hard thing to accept.

I'm not sure if all woman have these issues regarding c/b or not. I wonder if women who were not anticipating a wonderful natural delivery at home are as disappointed? I know they must be. But what about the woman who just doesn't care? Makes sense??


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Do you think our enviroment here at mdc makes us harder on ourselves?

I've been noticing some sigs lately of ppl that list everything they do to make themselves ap. Like my sig could read....

Megan; Wife to Ben and Mom to 2 boys that are co-slept, non-vaxed, intact, vegetarian, recyclers, that were born at home in water, in the yard, into my husbands arms while he was practicing yoga and writing a book on why spanking is abuse.

I don't think there is anything wrong with any of these things but I feel like it has become a contest to see who has the most in their arsenal of ap-ism. kwim?


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

Oh Megan, you make me laugh.









Y'know, even though I feel pretty triumphant about my VBAC with ds2, I *did* feel like I had to explain things with that birth, too (because it wasn't "all natural"... I feel like the interventions I had were unavoidable because I had such a long labor and because of my ovary pain, but I also feel like they helped me avoid a repeat C, which was the ultimate goal). But I definitely felt like y'all here understood...


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## bwylde (Feb 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *its_our_family*
I do not feel like I failed my sons but I do feel like I failed as a woman. It is a hard thing to accept.

I'm not sure if all woman have these issues regarding c/b or not. I wonder if women who were not anticipating a wonderful natural delivery at home are as disappointed? I know they must be. But what about the woman who just doesn't care? Makes sense??

I never felt this way personally. I had planned a hospital birth with DS from the start as we dont' have midwives here and I never heard about UC until about a year after he was born. I was planning 100% natural from the start though and c/s was not on my list of options. However when it came to the point that I needed one, I was able to accept it and never looked back. Now that I'm quickly approaching my second birth, I have the same attitude, 100% natural, c/s not on my list of options (unless something life or death goes wrong, which I now know can happen







) but if I have to have one, there will be no anger or regrets. I don't feel like I failed in any way and never grieved the loss of a natural birth.

But that's just me and I know everyone is different. Maybe that's why I don't post much on this thread because so many are hurt and angry about theirs and I don't feel that way about my experience







:


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Carla- It's good that you don't feel that way, you can still be supportive of those who do.







I am now at peace with all of my c-births, it's a different process for everybody. I think it is hardest when you question the necessity of the c-birth, or when you truly had your heart set on something like a homebirth. I had planned 100% natural, but I never had any expectation that it would be all beautiful and wonderful, yk? If I had planned a homebirth with my dh "catching" and laboring in a tub of water with Enya playing in the background, etc- I would've been much more disappointed.

IOF- your list cracked me up :LOL.


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## LisaG (Feb 23, 2003)

*IOF wrote:* I'm not sure if all woman have these issues regarding c/b or not. I wonder if women who were not anticipating a wonderful natural delivery at home are as disappointed? I know they must be. But what about the woman who just doesn't care? Makes sense??

Good question - I wonder that too and then I go to this really icky place of "well because it's so important to me I'm somehow more entitled to a v/b than some other woman who put blind faith in her doc, so it sucks more for me" and that's just waaaay over simplifying things and besides, last I checked God hadn't promoted me to Goddess of all Births, so I try to remember to take a deep breath and surrender. Some days are better than others









Oh, and your list comment - you read my mind! :LOL Why do we get so attached to labels like that?

*Bwylde wrote:* But that's just me and I know everyone is different. Maybe that's why I don't post much on this thread because so many are hurt and angry about theirs and I don't feel that way about my experience

Personally, I take comfort in knowing not everyone hated their c/s. Gives me hope









*Tammy* - nice to see you







. Comments like the ones you mentioned are ones that I am giving myself permission to loose my temper over should they occur. I'm a fairly easygoing individual - but that's just inexcusible. Although I will say I had a client who'd had what I'd call a vaginal c/s - ripped herself to shreds. Given that scenario I can see why she would've preferred a c/s.

How's your physical recovery going? Anythings you'd recommend doing differently in retrospect?

*Amy* - thanks so much for the babydust







I am really excited, and fortunately feeling much calmer this time around. And you hit the nail on the head - while I'm not sure I'm willing to do ANYTHING to have a baby, I'm certainly willing to have a c/s for one. For me the reward is greater than the it-totally-sucks factor. Thanks for that reminder!

LisaG


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bwylde*
but if I have to have one, there will be no anger or regrets. I don't feel like I failed in any way and never grieved the loss of a natural birth.

I don't feel this way now. I would have loved a natural birth but it didn't happen. After my first c/b I felt guilty for not feeling bad about it. I was kinda numb to the whole thing. It was about 6 months later I really felt sad about it. Then it all went away.

I wish I would have attempted vbac with Bryce. But I didn't and I'm fine with it. My experiences were pretty good.

If we have another babe I will vbac... I think


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LisaG*
*Tammy* - nice to see you







. Comments like the ones you mentioned are ones that I am giving myself permission to loose my temper over should they occur. I'm a fairly easygoing individual - but that's just inexcusible. Although I will say I had a client who'd had what I'd call a vaginal c/s - ripped herself to shreds. Given that scenario I can see why she would've preferred a c/s.

How's your physical recovery going? Anythings you'd recommend doing differently in retrospect?

I found that a lot of people wanted to say something helpful, but had no idea what that might be, thus the "well, at least he'll have a round head" comments. And the "no big deal" woman doesn't know the meaning of the word tact, so I didn't really expect anything better from her...

Re. my physical recovery - I'm pretty happy with it, all things considered. I overdid it a little after my help went home, but realized that I was pushing to hard and slowed down again. My pulling pain is finally starting to go away - I still have to be careful about how I get up off the floor, but other than that it's rare that I get a twinge. Thank goodness, cause that was the most painful part of the whole experience for me!


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

IOF- your comment about labeling ourselves made my laugh outloud. Serioulsly, I almost woke the baby (whom I can't believe is still sleeping this am).

I feel like my body failed me. I believed in a woman's ability to birth her baby. I still do but I'm figuring out how my experience factors into this postition. Does that make sense?

So, I just got the news last night that another friend due within days of the first friend, also planning a homebirth ended up at the hospital with a c-section. I feel rotten for my jealousy over yet another peaceful homebirth feeling. More than that I really feel for her. I don't know what happened or how she's feeling now but I'm sad for her 'cause the whole mess is alot to go through. gotta go dd's awake


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

I've been thinking about it and I guess I don't feel that my body let me down. I feel that I let MYSELF down, and (more so) that my birth attendants (everyone involved) let me down. I can recognize that *I* made some poor choices, but that I was not supported AT ALL in trying to avoid those choices. Make sense? I am accepting responsiblity, but at the same time accepting that I was in a tough place with no support.

Of course, I am one of those who adamantly feels that the c/s was unnecessary. So that adds a whole other layer of disgust/disappointment. I feel like if there had been a "problem", making the c/s necessary, I wouldn't have so much resentment about it. On the other hand, then I might feel my body had let me down. I don't know.....

I do feel some jealousy toward women who put NO THOUGHT at all into their births, but somehow traipse through with no problem. Mamas who think, research, plan, WORK for "good" births and get them, I am glad for. Yeah, I wish I'd been able to have that great experience, but I don't begrudge those who've worked for it.

It is really hard for me to hear about mamas who just did what the doc told them, blindly following along, and had it turn out "great". It's not FAIR!! I worked my butt off to try to have the best birth for my babe, and to hear about someone who couldn't even stop smoking during their pregnancy breezing through an intervention-filled labor really gets me.

I think part of it is b/c I'm thinking "Look at XXX, she didn't have any problems, and she didn't even CARE how it turned out". Do I think anyone "deserves" to have a c/s? No. Do I think I "deserved" a vaginal birth more than someone who didn't care one way or the other and didn't prepare at all? Yes. I'll be honest about that. Obviously, I would NEVER tell a new mama that (or anyone IRL, probably), but I do think it briefly.

Kinsey


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Although I mostly manage to avoid it, I've got some self blame going on too...

I had my c/s because my baby was breech. I know that many babies have been vaginally delivered breech for thousands of years. Heck - my dad was breech. Three of my grandma's four babies were breech. All delivered vaginally.

My midwives were willing to attempt to deliver me at home. Not *eager* mind you - but willing, if I were willing to take on the responsibility of the increased risks to the baby. I did my research, I looked at the dangers, and I *chose* to get a c-section. (Although only after trying every trick in the book to get DS to turn.) So sometimes I kinda go "What right do I have to feel bad about it?"

And then, of course, I get it from both sides - the people who think a c/s is no big deal and don't understand why I even care, and the people who think that I should have gone ahead with a homebirth anyway.


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## Jessica36 (Oct 14, 2003)

OK I have been somewhat skimming lately - Migraine day2 - I feel as if I have accepted my C/b's. I know for a FACT that if I hadn't had it with #1 he wouldn't have made it. However with #2 I should have been more open minded about a VBAC. I amthinking I will talk to my new OB about that option when and if we go for #3


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

I know, it IS hard to have made a choice to have a c/s. In the end, I chose to go ahead with my c/s, too (although it's not like I had much of a choice....GRRRRR). That's something I wrestle with. Just last night, I was laying awake thinking about how much I wished I'd MADE them help me onto hands and knees. Or even in the OR, once I realized my epidural wasn't working, MADE them let me try pushing again.

I just have to keep looking forward to how differently I will do it next time - learn from my mistakes (ie, stay the heck away from a hospital!).

I have also been thinking recently about what is expected of women after a c/s. Hello!! It's major surgery! Yet we're expected to be up and around almost immediately. WTH!! Can you imagine if it were a man being cut open? He'd be chilling on the couch for a while before he even THOUGHT about getting around. Yet, so many people think c/s is not a big deal.

My MIL had a hysterectomy around the same time I had DS. She took great delight in informing me that she knew exactly how I felt, b/c it was the same surgery. Right....except she didn't labor for 41 hours, push for three, go without food for a day and a half, all after using her body to build another person for nine months.

She also reported, in great detail, how she was to "take it easy", b/c her surgery was "major". She then told me that she started doing sit-ups the day after DH was born, and that I needed to "get started immediately" on getting back in shape/losing weight.

So I guess those "identical" surgeries we had came with different after-care instructions, huh? Which doesn't surprise me - after all, MIL's WAS surgery, while mine was "just a different way to give birth".







Whatever.

Kinsey


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## Katie's Momma (Jun 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *its_our_family*
Do you think our enviroment here at mdc makes us harder on ourselves?

I know this has not influenced me, because I just joined and have had these feelings since DD was born in May 2001. (In fact I didn't know what there was a real thing called AP until she was a few months old....)

I haven't been here long, but I do feel constrained in what I should and should not share here though. DH and I are very gentle, child-guided parents and I consider us AP, but there are a lot of "typical AP traits" such as CD or non-vax that we did not follow.

I think as women we are hard on ourselves, period. I also think that because I worked so hard during my pregnancy to plan/prepare for a natural birth that my expectations were too high. I believed that I could do it and when I couldn't then I felt like I failed.








I hope someday I come to terms with this.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

This might sound "not so nice" but think about it. Your child is in your "direct" care for 18 years. Labor and delivery takes up about a week max. Now, I know it takes longer for physical recovery. But there is so much to look forward to in your life and in theirs that I would hope in 18 years it would be something in the past. If it isn't, maybe you need real help. We can't dwell on the things in life that already happened that we didn't like because it will affect the rest of the life we have to live.


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## AnaNicole (Jan 30, 2004)

It's nice to think that one short event (in the grand scheme of things, yes, birth is a "short" event) won't affect us for the rest of our lives--or cast a shadow over the 18 years in which we are raising our kids...but I do believe that everything that happens to us molds us slowly into the people we are becoming. And we never stop becoming--life is a journey, after all, not a destination.

For me, I planned my c/s because I had to. I had a previa that never went away and I had two months to get used to the idea that a fourth homebirth was not to be. I was simultaneously relieved and mortified by the prospect of a straightforward birth with no labor. After my third child's birth--long, hard labor with her in a posterior position for most of it--I honestly _wasn't_ looking forward to laboring again. And yet...my cesarean felt like such a violation of my body. I struggle with the fact that I didn't give birth to my son--somebody else extracted him from me. And this event has changed me. I am not the same person I was before.

Will I get over it? Absolutely. I doubt there are many among us who are so haunted by their birth experiences that their "dwelling" affects the rest of the lives they live with their children. But, I could be wrong. Suffice to say that I look back over my life and see a chain of events--a rape, an abortion, a marriage, three beautiful homebirths, illness, divorce, another marriage and, now, a cesarean--have shaped me into a person I feel rather proud to be.

Of course, I also get "real help" on a regular basis, and have been doing so for the past four years.


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

I've been thinking about what I said this am. I have to say that I don't think my body failed me. I have to agree with kinsey43 that I tend blame myself for her malposition before and during labor. But as AnaNicole mentioned, we are a molded into the people that we become by the events we experience in our lives. Even in the weeks after my c/b I felt like there had to be a reason that I needed to experience a c-section. Other than the reasons that were given for section of course i.e. arrest of dilation.
IOF- I hope that I work through this much faster than 18 years. Your right, if I'm still mourning the loss of my v/birth or blaming myself for not doing enough two decades from now I definately need some help getting past it. It's been a year for me. Some days I feel like I've made some progress and healed a little and other days I feel like I've taken two steps back. Mostly though I feel like I'm making headway. Hashing it out here and with friends and family has really helped me in that process.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

I agree with Ana and wrensmom ... the c/s has changed me and I have to believe there is some greater purpose for why I needed to experience the c/s and why it needed to change me in a particular way. I often forget both of those things so I appreciate the reminder. I think IOF is correct to the extent that if we are still grieving in 18 years, something is seriously wrong. But I don't think its unreasonable to still be grieving a year or two after. After all, when we grieve the loss of a loved one, it doesn't just go away in a month or two. It is a process of healing. And for many of us, we had pictured our "perfect birth" for months or years before, so in essence, that now lost birth experience (or the idea of it, anyway), had become a part of our lives. We need time to let it go and heal.

I don't even know if what I just said made any sense (I haven't had my coffee yet). But I do know that I am going to try to focus on what it is I am supposed to learn from this experience (the why did this have to happen to me reasons) as there is nothing I can do to change it. With that said, do any of you have a sense of the greater reasons for why you had a c/s (not the failure to progress reasons, the fate-based reasons)?


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

The reason (outside of medical) that I ended up with c-births. Well, I used to be quite judgemental of people who "took the easy way out" with birth, with giving up on BFing, etc. My first child came to me via scheduled c-section, and then we had a horrible time with nursing to boot. This was just part of me becoming a less judgemental person.

Also- I like to be in control, and I have never been so "not in control" as I was during my c-births, so maybe that was another thing I needed to go through.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Henry's_Mamma*
I think IOF is correct to the extent that if we are still grieving in 18 years, something is seriously wrong. But I don't think its unreasonable to still be grieving a year or two after.

I totally agree. I am still grieving the loss of what I wanted and expected but I know that it will pass.

Quote:

With that said, do any of you have a sense of the greater reasons for why you had a c/s (not the failure to progress reasons, the fate-based reasons)?
This might sound kind of silly. But I am a woman that does some things just to prove ppl wrong. I was going to have a nautral childbirth no matter what... well, we know that didn't happen.

I believe in the grand scheme of things I learned a couple lessons.
1. I am NOT in control of everything that goes on around me
2. Some times things do NOT go as planned
3. Be prepared for anything!

I believe that there are a couple reasons outside of myself that I had a c/b
1. I think that my c/b has allowed me to reach woman that I would never had reached if I had had a homebirth. Because of the things I have studied and learned from experience I am able to help woman have the most natural childbirth possible even with a c/b.
2. It has opened many doors to talk to woman that are hurting from their experience
3. I'm able to explain to woman what to avoid through my expereince. Just by spouting research and stats isn't as powerful as experience can be.

I know things happen for a reason. The trick is finding it.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Hi Everyone, I have tried reading all of the pages but can't. I am so glad though to see this thread so active. I am very busy with my work right now but will slow down soon. I also got burned out on MDC a few weeks ago. I am just trying to get my family in a direction I need for it to go in and I know that its not lining up with how I once felt about parenting or that fit in here at MDC. Many times when I come here I feel like I fail at every angle. When I am more with it and have time I will come back as fiesty as ever.









As for some of the things said about recovering, acceptance, and moving past or forward after our csections.

I did feel like a failure after my first csection. I wanted a natural birthing experience and never thought I would ever end up in an OR. However I did, and while the trauma I suffered was beyond what I believe any woman should endure giving birth, I feel that it was all meant to be in a philosophical kind of way. My csection was necessary. I have a uterine deformity that prevented my daughter from being head down. I would have to say if I had to list the top ten events or circumstances that taught me life lessons, it would be number three. First my judgement of others who didnt birth the way I thought they should really came to a screeching halt. I really had to evaluate the way I acted and treated other women. Second, I had to accept some things about myself and that there were things that were not in my control. Third, my csectioned empowered me to educate myself with facts and not propaganda and to speak to other women about their traumatic births.

Looking back, I do not regret that my daughter was born by cesarean. I hate the way it happened. They way I was victimized and tortured.

With Jack, he has been my saving grace. I made choices to have a repeat csection, based on medical history and positioning. I took back some of my power, while at the same time letting go and allowing what was to be, be. My physical healing was remarkable, my emotional recovery was definitely a spiritual experience.

Its hard coming here, surrounded by women who give birth so easily or naturally and with those who seek to dismiss and condemn the medical establishment. I often dont appreciate being treated as if I am some lost cause or uneducated. I think for those, who come here, feeling already hurt, anxious and remorse, then are compounded with guilt, when there often should be none. Many of us here on this thread had necessary surgical births, maybe it wasnt what we wanted, expected, or planned for -- however that is how the goddess/god saw fit for our children to enter the world. I am of the thought that in time, things will reveal themselves to us.

I think about my next baby. Maybe that baby will never happen. I would love to experience having a vaginal birth. It doesnt even have to be natural anymore. I am not even sure I would chose a natural childbirth for many reasons. It is not a part of my reality though. The reality is that with my uterus, most likely a csection is the best course of action. I don't feel like I failed though as a woman. Things were just out of my control. Sh*t happens. I know each journey is different, and I hope for those of you still trying to grieve and question what led you to your surgical birth that you will find peace.

Take care,
Kim


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

In terms of greater reasons, I think my c/s allowed me to allow DH to be more involved with DS. If we'd had a homebirth, I think I would have immediately jumped into caretaker role and hardly let DH take part. Instead, because I was stuck in a bed for the first day after DS was born, DH had to do it all - the diapering, the dressing, the picking up and bringing him to me in bed. And that gave him an immediate confidence that he could do it. More importantly, it gave me an immediate confidence that he could do it too - that my status as mother didn't automatically make me the all-knowing parent in the family. Especially in the early days, I was much more willing to listen to his assessments of what that particular cry might indicate.

These days, since I'm at home and DH is back to work, I'm more in expert mode. But starting in August, DH will be staying at home (for a little while at least) and I'll be working 3 days a week, so his early-learned parenting instincts will come in very handy!


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *its_our_family*
This might sound "not so nice" but think about it. Your child is in your "direct" care for 18 years. Labor and delivery takes up about a week max. Now, I know it takes longer for physical recovery. But there is so much to look forward to in your life and in theirs that I would hope in 18 years it would be something in the past. If it isn't, maybe you need real help. We can't dwell on the things in life that already happened that we didn't like because it will affect the rest of the life we have to live.

Okay, I've been chewing on this for a couple of days. I need to get this off my chest....

It DOES sound "not so nice". My grieving over my c/s is MINE. Who are you (generic you, I promise - I'm hearing this sort of thing ALL the time IRL, IOF just happened to put it here where I could respond) to hand down a time limit?

If I was raped, would you (generic you again) tell me that I have to be over it in 18 years? Because, honestly, my c/s was like a rape (to ME). I was violated physically, mentally, and emotionally. I BEGGED for help to avoid it and was bluntly (and rudely) rejected. And now, though I am trying to heal from the trauma, I am repeatedly told that I should "be over it by now", or that "it's no big deal".

Well, I'm NOT over it, and it IS a big deal.

DH and I had planned (sshhhhh, listen -- can you hear the gods laughing? lol) to have 3 or 4 kids, about two years apart. So, assuming we were able to keep on track with that, I have 3-5 years of active reproduction in my immediate future.

Yes, my c/s scar may be "healed", but it will definitely affect my future pregnancies and births. Even if there are no physical repercussions for future births (ie, uterine rupture, placental problems), I will always be a V/HBAC.

I am honestly concerned about my ability to VBAC in the future. It is getting tougher and tougher to find a birth attendant (or hospital - good luck) to allow a VBAC labor to progress on it's own, without excessive monitoring. There is a midwife here in town who runs a birthing center, and she has already told me she will want to induce me at 38 weeks (is she insane?? inducing a VBAC????). Obviously, I won't go for that, but I'll have the added stress at the end of my pregnancy of "fighting" my care provider (or of maybe being dropped from care).

So, assuming DH and I go ahead and have all four children we've discussed, the c/s will be a major part of my life until 2009. Yes, I certainly hope that my anger/pain will fade with each successful birth, but some part of it will still be there - it will HAVE to be. I won't be allowed to put the c/s out of my mind, even if *I* would like to.

So how long after I'm done having kids can I grieve? I don't know. Honestly, I hope I NEVER become "okay" with an unnecessary c/s. There should NEVER be an unnecessary c/s performed! I don't want to give up my indignation on that point - I want to be "out there" in the public, raising awareness, helping other moms to avoid c/s, helping other moms to fight back if they've been a victim of a c/s. Can I do that if I'm no longer angry about my c/s? I don't know.

Oh, and I HAVE sought "real help". I was told that 1) I CAN'T have PPD, as it's been almost a year since DS was born (at the time I sought "help"), and 2) lots of women have c/s, and THEY'RE not having PTSD. Yes, VERY helpful. When I responded that PPD is, in fact, a diagnosis I was eligible for, I was brushed off. When I responded that I am NOT "lots of women", the focus of my "therapy" shifted to the fact that my husband is an ACoA. ????WTH that has to do with my c/s, I don't know. And, no, there are no other options for "help" in my area.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *its_our_family*
We can't dwell on the things in life that already happened that we didn't like because it will affect the rest of the life we have to live.

I'm repeating this b/c it illustrates my point (though I'm kind of twisting the quote - I'm sorry, IOF). My c/s IS affecting the rest of the life I have to life, just by having happened. So to say that I can't dwell on it, well, I don't know what else to do. I mean, I don't sit around every day bemoaning the fact that I had a c/s. But I DO get angry and sad when I let myself think about it. I wonder what I could have done differently, I plan for what I WILL do differently in the future, sometimes I still cry when I think about the nurse who REFUSED to help me get on hands and knees to push. Not everyday, but sometimes.

I'm not at the point yet (don't know if I will ever be) where I can think that my c/s occurred "for a reason". The reason was that the OB and nurses REFUSED to help me avoid it. What have I learned from it? To stay away from hospitals for birthing. To distrust medical "professionals". That I can't count on anyone but myself to protect myself.

I've seen some say that they learned they can't control everything. Well, I WASN'T trying to control everything - that fell to the OB/nurses. I was trying to let my birth progress naturally.

I've also seen some say they have more compassion for c/s moms. Well, I already had compassion for them. It's the unnecessary c/s I have no tolerance for, and this experience has made this even more so.

Was there a reason for my c/s? I can't find one.

Okay, now that's off my chest. I want to reiterate that this was NOT directed at anyone in particular (though I can see how it may appear to have been, given that I quoted IOF). It is VERY frustrating to me to go through my life (in a mainstream world) and be told that my feelings are unreasonable or even WRONG. How can my feelings be wrong? They're not right or wrong - they just are! I really don't expect the cashier at the grocery store to understand how the c/s will affect the rest of my reproductive life (unless she's had one, and maybe not even then), but I know mamas here DO understand.

---------------------------

I have not been very active on this thread b/c I have been questioning whether it's the right place for me. It seems that it's tilted more toward helping mamas prepare for upcoming (scheduled) c/s and to recover (physically) after having a c/s. Let me be clear: I think that's GREAT!! If a mama needs to have a c/s, she also needs some support and help in making it as "natural" as possible.

I just don't feel that either of those two options fit me. I am not planning a c/s, and I'm pretty well physically recovered from DS' birth.

But I haven't seen another thread that fits me, either. I don't know....

I don't want to bring mamas down who have to have a c/s, and I want to help them recover afterward, but sometimes I just feel that I shouldn't be here....Does that make sense?

Wow! After that massive post, you all may be thinking "I hope she doesn't post any more - my eyes can't take it!" lol. Sorry it got so long - like I said, it's stuff I've been thinking about for a while and needed to get out of my head.

Kinsey


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Kinsey








. How long have you been following these threads? I ask b/c they have a flow to them, there have been lots of times on the many threads that we have talked a lot about what you are going through. It does seem that as of late the focus is on helping people who are facing a necessary c-birth, or recovering from a c-birth (I think helping others through it promotes healing for many of us). Believe me though, 2 of our most active posters (OnTheFence and Ladylee-who I think started this in the beginning) have really been where you are. I can't say that I have, since I have always known my c-births were necessary- but- please keep sharing here, I know there are other mamas feeling very similar things to you.








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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

All I'm saying is that there WILL be a point in time where it will not be int he front of your mind. I felt like you are feeling. I've gone through the same emotions.

I'm not belittling how anyone feels about their c/b. I'm really not. I just hate to see ppl feel like the pain will never get better. It will. Yes, you can still experience anger and frustration over it. But there is more to having a baby than giving birth or not giving birth.

It really sucks for all of us. We go through pg doing everything right and being so super careful. There are women out there that abuse there unborn children and have NO problems giving birth even with tons of interventions and such. It isn't fair and it never will be. I just plain sucks!

I was only happy with my second c/b because I knew it was going to happen. I'm not happy with my first one just because I know it was my own stupid fault and the second one was the result of that bad decision.

Is this the place for you?? I don't know. I can tell you that almost every women here feels/felt like you do. I had the SAME feelings when this thread started but here I have found ways to heal. If you stick around you might to.


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## Icequeen_in_ak (Mar 6, 2004)

Kinsey


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