# moms who don't do a bedtime routine/early bedtime



## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

I read about a lot of moms and know a lot of moms who have a rigid nightime routine that starts with dinner and cascades from there ending in a bedtime around 8p.
Are there moms out there who do not do this? Are there loosy-goosey moms who fly by the seat of there pants, eating dinner at different times, maybe not reading or reading depending on there moods, send the kids to bed when they fall asleep or when they, the parents go to bed?

Just curious if this is the standard or not?


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## listipton (Jun 26, 2008)

We don't







. Our 'routine' is that we eat sometime between 6 & 8 pm, take a bath, and lay down after 8:30. DD is usually asleep by 9-9:30 and our activities vary day by day. We just try to go with the flow







.


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

We certainly don't have a routine here.
Whenever DD or DS nursed to sleep was bedtime. Generally that is somewhere around 8:30 for DS unless he naps. Lately that has been 10:00 or later for DD.
Now that DD is almost 5 and will be in school by 8:05 I am working on getting her to bed a little earlier.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

We're in the category too. Dinner is usually around 6 but it varies day to day based on what's cooking and who's cooking (i.e. DH usually forgets until I remind him around 8). DD hasn't had an officiall bed time since she was about 5, and even then there was no hard and fast rule just because I know what it's like to be stuck in bed when you're not tired and can't sleep.

Right now, she has to be in her room by the time DH and I are both in bed but it's up to her when she actually goes to bed. Usually she goes to bed around 9:30, sometimes shes up till midnight. DS just goes to bed when he falls asleep. We see no reason to put him down before that.


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## DisplacedYooper (Aug 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
Are there loosy-goosey moms who fly by the seat of there pants, eating dinner at different times, maybe not reading or reading depending on there moods, send the kids to bed when they fall asleep or when they, the parents go to bed?

Yes, this is me, although it might change as DS gets older. He either nurses to sleep on the couch, asks to go upstairs to bed (read: nurse) when he gets tired around 9 - 10 pm, or comes up with us when we go to bed around 10 - 10:30. We eat dinner anywhere between 5 and 9 depending on our daily schedule (DH and I are grad students) although, of course, DS gets snacks and such whenever he is hungry. We read often during the day, and rather infrequently at night, since everyone is already tired and wants to go to sleep!

We started this because we co-sleep, and our bed is upstairs. When DS was littler, we didn't want his to wake up, wander into the hall, and fall down the stairs (there was no good way to put up a gate...) Now, we maintain it because we would prefer him staying up at night to waking up early in the morning. If he went to be every night at 8, you can bet he'd be up at 5 or 6, instead of the more reasonable 7 that we have now. He still is the one who wakes up first!


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2two babes* 
We certainly don't have a routine here.
Whenever DD or DS nursed to sleep was bedtime. Generally that is somewhere around 8:30 for DS unless he naps. Lately that has been 10:00 or later for DD.
Now that DD is almost 5 and will be in school by 8:05 I am working on getting her to bed a little earlier.

This is us. DS is so young right now that a bedtime wouldn't really work. (Well, I guess if you're mainstream it would...) We have more of a pattern than a routine. We eat dinner between 4-5 and DS usually gets sleepy around 7:30 or so.


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## Marlet (Sep 9, 2004)

We don't. It drives all our family nuts.









We eat dinner around 5:30-6. I'll do a bath around 9ish maybe and then it's just time to wind down. They can be up doing whatever but not bouncing off the walls. On average I think all of us are in bed by midnight.









I'm ok with their late nights. They sleep late and always have so I'm not concerned about a lack of sleep. I actually prefer it this way.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

We are loosey-goosey.

During the week, our nights are nearly always the same - dinner 7-8pm, a little play afterwards, bath, bed (we co-sleep) sometimes reading, sometimes not. DS falls asleep anywhere between 8:30 - 9:30. Sometimes later.

Weekends are anything goes. Like tonight, we probably won't eat dinner until 8-8:30 and will stay up until at least 10pm, DS included.

DS is one of those kids that will sleep late when he goes to bed late. Last Saturday, he fell asleep at the camp fire (11pm or so) and slept until 10am the next morning.

I wonder if being a SAHM vs. a working mom (or dad) effects the degree of bedtime routine?


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Ok, good, yeah this is me. We just let her hang out until she is tired which varies from anywhere between 8:30 and 10 and after that if she is still up we all go to bed together, we cosleep, too.

I also remember what it was like to have to go to bed at a certain time, alone, much earlier than anyone else in my house(I lived with my mom and grandparents) and I hated it. From an early age I would sneak out of bed and hide to watch the TV through the doors to the den...until my mom would find me, chastise me and shuffle me off to bed again. I hated esp. being in bed before dark!

I just wondered if there were other people, we have no plans to change unless dd seems to need some sort of routine and then we would.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marlet* 
We don't. It drives all our family nuts.









We eat dinner around 5:30-6. I'll do a bath around 9ish maybe and then it's just time to wind down. They can be up doing whatever but not bouncing off the walls. On average I think all of us are in bed by midnight.









I'm ok with their late nights. They sleep late and always have so I'm not concerned about a lack of sleep. I actually prefer it this way.









Yeah, we plan to homeschool, so I don't see that interfering with my nice late wake-up time of around 8:30/9a.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I dunno, reading this thread, I still see patterns and routines here, they're just later.

I wouldn't categorize "early" with "rigid" and "later" with "loosey-goosey" myself--it's neither good nor bad, it's just your kids' schedule.

I will say as a night owl it really really REALLY SUCKED having all three kids turn out to be early birds. Still, when they're super little, what can you do but honor their best bedtime and best risings?


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Caneel* 
We are loosey-goosey.

During the week, our nights are nearly always the same - dinner 7-8pm, a little play afterwards, bath, bed (we co-sleep) sometimes reading, sometimes not. DS falls asleep anywhere between 8:30 - 9:30. Sometimes later.

Weekends are anything goes. Like tonight, we probably won't eat dinner until 8-8:30 and will stay up until at least 10pm, DS included.

DS is one of those kids that will sleep late when he goes to bed late. Last Saturday, he fell asleep at the camp fire (11pm or so) and slept until 10am the next morning.

I wonder if being a SAHM vs. a working mom (or dad) effects the degree of bedtime routine?


Oh, I'm sure school and working outside home affect it quite a bit.


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## Marlet (Sep 9, 2004)

I'm not even going to mention our wake up time on average because it's still late than most of you.









I prefer late mornings to early ones so it has worked out real well. We are also going to homeschool so I'm not worried about it. The few times we've had to wake them up for something before their normal time was sheer hell. Not because they aren't used to it. They wake up pretty fast and are ok but they are ornry! I won't do it.









It's been this way since birth though. I don't think many people realize babies can be night owls.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
I dunno, reading this thread, I still see patterns and routines here, they're just later.

I wouldn't categorize "early" with "rigid" and "later" with "loosey-goosey" myself--it's neither good nor bad, it's just your kids' schedule.

I will say as a night owl it really really REALLY SUCKED having all three kids turn out to be early birds. Still, when they're super little, what can you do but honor their best bedtime and best risings?

That's us too. I'm loosey-goosey. DH is loosey-goosey. DS is not.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
I dunno, reading this thread, I still see patterns and routines here, they're just later.

I wouldn't categorize "early" with "rigid" and "later" with "loosey-goosey" myself--it's neither good nor bad, it's just your kids' schedule.

I will say as a night owl it really really REALLY SUCKED having all three kids turn out to be early birds. Still, when they're super little, what can you do but honor their best bedtime and best risings?

By rigid I meant that you stick to a bedtime, a routine and a certain set of things that happen every night. I didn't mean that simply falling asleep early means your bedtime routine is rigid.
And by loosy-goosey I meant that you easily go with the flow of differing times and differing activities preceding bedtime.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
By rigid I meant that you stick to a bedtime, a routine and a certain set of things that happen every night. I didn't mean that simply falling asleep early means your bedtime routine is rigid.
*And by loosy-goosey I meant that you easily go with the flow of differing times and differing activities preceding bedtime*.

Yeah, we are definately in this category.

We play pirates last night from 9pm until almost 11pm. We headed to bed at 11pm and DS fell asleep immediately.


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## ilovemygirl (Sep 8, 2008)

I always thought I'd have one of the loosey-goosey houses but it didn't turn out that way. DD wants to go to sleep and take her nap almost to the minute at the exact same time every day and God help me if I mess with her. She will be out of sorts for days. She really thrives on routine and tends to rise early. I'm not a fan of either, go figure


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## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

We're go with the flow. The last couple of nights, I have managed to get DS to sleep on his own in the bed (we have a family bed) and spend some time with DD, then get her to fall asleep, so I even have some me-time afterwards!







We do have dinner at the same time roughly every night though. And the kids always wake up around the same time too.


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## baglady (Jul 13, 2009)

Well, DS is to young for a bedtime unless we were to CIO which obviously is not going to happen. However, I have started a routine with him which is "dinner," bath then cuddle quiet time. The times vary greatly. He usually eats some solids between 5 and 6, bathes between 6 and 7 and falls asleep anywhere from 7:30 to 9:30. He definitely knows it's sleeping time once the bath happens. One night last week I forgot the bath and had no idea why he would not fall asleep. I remembered at 11:30.







:

We probably will never be a super rigid house because DH works shifts so our schedule varies based on that. But, I do think there will be more rigidness in the future, like when there's school the next day.


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## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

DD is just a baby, but I had to give up any illusions of a routine and early bedtime pretty quickly. She is a night owl like her dad. We have a loose routine that ends with her going to sleep around 10:30-11pm most nights. Thankfully we have a daytime schedule that can accommodate her getting up at 10am.


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## delightedbutterfly (Oct 5, 2006)

there is definatly a difference between a loose routine and a schedual. I believe a loose routine to be best even with my almost on schedual baby









DD1 was/is a night owl. Perfect for me the mostly at home mom as I don't "come alive" until 2pm/3pm... Sure I have been up since 830 but I am lazy as I take a long while to wake up... I would easily stay up until 2 if the girls slept until 10.

DD2 on the other hand prefers an earlier bedtime and likes to wake up around 730-830. And I am sure she would get up even earlier if it was normal here. She also HAS to have quiet during her nap(s) and takes 1-2 a day...

But dinner is anywhere from 4-9 in our house baths are anytime of day on the days they have them and bed is whenever you are tired or mommy and daddy need you to be tired









It drives my mom nuts, and my BIL but my FIL and MIL usually eat late and hang out late with us too. It gives us a great amount of flexibility and the girls are always able to be behaved regardless of time.

Still don't know what we are doing for school though so it could change and DD2 has already changed us a good amount...


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Until school age no bed times no routines. In the summer the routine for school goes away and we sleep when we want to how ever long we want. Then back to the school routine.

Works great for us.


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## caro113 (Aug 25, 2008)

Nope nope and nope

The only "routine" is that we get up around 8am. Every day. Why? Because that's when DD gets up. Other than that, we eat when we feel like it and feed her when she wants it. If we're both hungry then we both eat (bc DP is usually at work) at the same time, but it's easier not. DD likes when I "help" feed her by handing her food and then she takes them and feeds them to herself.

She naps when she wants to nap and goes to bed when she wants to go to bed. Usually bed time is sometime around 9ish, but not always. And she usually gets up around 4am for a midnight snack, or just to crawl into bed with us (We side bar basically), but again, not always.

I don't really believe in setting such routines. She's a child and she needs to be able to express herself in any way shape or form. It's not dangerous and it doesn't affect anyone but our little family, and we aren't bothered by it. I don't believe in bedtime, either. When I was little, I had a bedtime, and I always made a point to stay up later playing with my toys or something. Once my parents stopped enforcing a bedtime, I started going to bed around the same time every night and I was no longer tired during the day.

I know too many moms who are waaay to strict with bedtimes and routines. That doesn't mean every mom who has set routines is too strict, just some of the ones I know. I feel my daughter needs to set her own schedule by what her body needs. It will always let her know when it's time to eat, when it's time to play, when it's time to sleep.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

I was feeling like a terrible mom for not getting DS on some kind of routine until I read something out of my old child development textbook that set me at ease: basically, kids in societies where cosleeping is the norm don't usually NEED routines. Phew! That made me feel a lot better. It makes sense too - if you have the comfort of the family bed, why would you need three hours of anxiety-relieving bedtime routine designed to get you to sleep by yourself?

Of course, this will vary. Some kids (and parents) will feel a lot better with routine, but I really think for AP parents, especially those who cosleep, routines are not as necessary (in most cases).


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

No set bedtimes here, and we eat meals at random times. The only thing I can guarantee is that we will have dinner sometime before midnight









we sleep when we are tired, wake up when we are rested (for the most part) and eat when we are hungry.

Four kids, and luckily none are early birds.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gcgirl* 
I was feeling like a terrible mom for not getting DS on some kind of routine until I read something out of my old child development textbook that set me at ease: basically, kids in societies where cosleeping is the norm don't usually NEED routines. Phew! That made me feel a lot better. It makes sense too - if you have the comfort of the family bed, why would you need three hours of anxiety-relieving bedtime routine designed to get you to sleep by yourself?

Of course, this will vary. Some kids (and parents) will feel a lot better with routine, but I really think for AP parents, especially those who cosleep, routines are not as necessary (in most cases).


That is interesting to think about...


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

no real routine here we don't eat at the same time every night or go to be the same every night the only kind of routine is that caden goes in his cot at his sleep time (whatever time that may be ) and then once i go to bed when he wakes he comes in the bed with me.


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## shanniesue2 (Jul 4, 2007)

I'm a WOHM and we're pretty loosey goosey. I think he follows a more structured routine at daycare, but in the evenings and on weekends we're pretty flexible. We usually eat between 5-6 and try to get DS laying down by 8. Other than that, it's kind of just whatever happens. Sometimes we go for a walk, sometimes not. Sometimes we read bedtime stories, sometimes not. Sometimes DH gets out his mandolin or guitar and plays and sometimes not. Sometimes we eat over at my parents house and DS falls asleep in the carseat on the way home. I have a hard time with rigid routines. We adjust based on lots of things (the weather, how we feel, what we ate for dinner, etc). And DS is a very well adjusted little guy. It works for us


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemygirl* 
I always thought I'd have one of the loosey-goosey houses but it didn't turn out that way. DD wants to go to sleep and take her nap almost to the minute at the exact same time every day and God help me if I mess with her. She will be out of sorts for days. She really thrives on routine and tends to rise early. I'm not a fan of either, go figure









We only have one child so there is nothing to compare to but this brings up an interesting point.

Our DS was so totally laid back until 3 years old. (We are experiencing some changes now) He could fall asleep anywhere and was totally happy as a baby as long as mommy had the goods. We travelled extensively and operated under the baby fits into our life mode of living.

Toddler years continued along the same lines. We would have friends over and DS would walk over to his nest (a special blanket and pad right off the dining room in his play room) and go to sleep when he was tired, would fall asleep on the beach, lay on my lap in a restaurant - you get the picture.

DH could never understand the schedule thing. He just assumed all kids were like our's. I remember his horror (ha ha) at a friend saying their kids needed to be in bed by 7pm. He still doesn't understand that not all kids are like ours.

This causes some friction in one of our family relationships. We are close with a family where the DIL puts her kids to bed at 6pm.

Her MIL saids stuff like "well X and Y spend the evening with their DS, why do you need to put the kids (her grandkids) to bed so early?"

DIL says to me "I am so sick and tired of hearing how you are great, the way you let your DS stay up late, that you co-sleep, etc." But her kids (and the parents) need to go to sleep early.


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## ShadowMoon (Oct 18, 2006)

We don't do bed times or rigid routines. Ds tells us when it's ready for sleep. That usually occurs sometime between 8:30 and 10pm. Always has. We start winding down around 8 brush teeth, wash hands and wash face. He then gets to relax and chill until he asks for bed. (We coslept until he was around 15 months old. He sleeps in his own bed now).

We don't have set eating times either. I guess you could say that we have a rhythm to the day but not a schedule to follow.


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## ellairiesmom (Mar 20, 2008)

We are pretty chill here. Dinner is anywhere between 6:30 & 8:30 (DH & DD are at Whole Foods picking up a pizza for us right now!!!). We are still cosleeping & we all get into bed between 10 & 11 & some nights we read before she nurses to sleep, some nights, just nurse.

We don't do a regular bath routine at all. She was born with crazy, crazy long hair & it's just too much to deal with if it gets wet before bed. But sure, if she is dirty, she gets a bath at some point in the evening.

We sleep till 9am nowadays...used to be 10am. But she does still wake up & want to latch on a few times here & there. We are due in Feb with #2 & I wonder what it will be like...does having a more strict routine make it easier or will we be ok just kind of going with the flow????

Sometimes I feel "judged" because she stays up later than many kids her age. But we are all really happy & get a nice batch of family time in the evenings. That can't be a bad thing.


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## AmyB736 (Oct 21, 2006)

We don't have a routine at all, nighttime or daytime. We just go with the flow, whatever we feel like doing, whenever we feel like eating. We generally eat together but not until the first person says they're hungry. Dinner could be anytime between 4:30 and 9pm! When the first person wakes up between 7am and 10pm the rest of us wakes up and we just fall asleep when we get tired. We're definitely loosy goosey here! I'm not sure why so many people have a problem with our relaxed schedule. People are shocked to find out that our kids don't have a bedtime or a routine and my Mom thinks it's ridiculous. We are all very happy with our schedule (or lack of) and that's all that matters. I think if we tried to force ourselves to go along with a rountine it would make for some miserable days and nights...for all of us.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

I was this way for 5 years, it worked for us then, it certainly doesn't work now though. DD1 napped or didn't nap, usually went to bed at 10pm or so when we did. We followed her cues, or so I thought. After doing intensive OT for SPD, I've come to realize that she has no drive to sleep, the child just doesn't get tired like most kids do, but if I go through the motions of a bedtime routine/schedule, many nights she will sleep and will be a much more pleasant child to deal with the next day. And now she goes to school so a bedtime is a must.

DD2 thrives on a schedule, she must go to bed around the same time every night for there is hell to pay. It was the same way back when she was napping, I had a short 30 minute window in which I had to get her down every day.

I do miss the the carefree days of no routine. We loved to take night time walks around 9pm or so, couldn't do it where we currently live because of bears but it would be nice not having to constantly watch the clock. I am enjoying my child free evening time which we never had back in the days of no schedule so there are certainly trade offs.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gcgirl* 
I was feeling like a terrible mom for not getting DS on some kind of routine until I read something out of my old child development textbook that set me at ease: basically, kids in societies where cosleeping is the norm don't usually NEED routines. Phew! That made me feel a lot better. It makes sense too - if you have the comfort of the family bed, why would you need three hours of anxiety-relieving bedtime routine designed to get you to sleep by yourself?

Of course, this will vary. Some kids (and parents) will feel a lot better with routine, but I really think for AP parents, especially those who cosleep, routines are not as necessary (in most cases).

FWIW, though, most of those societies *have* routines; for most of human history, human beings went to bed when it got dark. Since most adults don't need as much sleep as there is dark, there were what people called "first sleep" and "Second sleep," often with a period of quiet wakefulness in between when people would tell stories etc.

And darkness? It does move, but slowly and so is a pretty predictable point to build a "routine" around.

Some of the "we don't have a routine" posts seem very "and that makes us not uptight mainstreamers." For most of us, the routine isn't about "Three hours of alleviating anxiety." Its about life.

My kids needed to eat at relatively set times, in that they couldn't go for very long without eating. Having an entirely unpredictable dinner wouldn't work, and neither would waiting until one of us adults remembered. By then, the kid would be miserable, whiney, and even melting down.

So dinner becomes a set point. And if you're like most human beings, after dinner, there are things you do. You clean up the meal. You wash the dirty child after the meal to get the spagetti sauce out of their hair. You change a diaper. YOu listen to some music. And you realize your baby or toddler or small child is getting sleepy, so you rock them and nurse them and put them to bed, however it is that you do that. Maybe you lay down with them for awhiel and get up. Maybe you nurse them down, put them down, and stay up awhile, or maybe you all go to bed at once.

That's all a routine is. Not a prescribed: "At 7:09 pm we play 3 tracks from a lullaby CD before abandoning our baby to cry alone."


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## SpiderMum (Sep 13, 2008)

We don't have a routine. We don't always eat dinner...if we do the time varies widely. We're the family that will go grocery shopping with the baby in tow at 9pm or later. Sometimes she gets a bath. Sometimes we read books or nurse. Lately DD has been laying with me on the couch watching TV for a bit before she falls asleep, then I move her to bed. Sometimes she goes down at 9, other times she goes down after midnight.


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## Centura (Jul 15, 2009)

Im not quite sure where on the "scale" our family would fit in...

I guess you could say we have an "unstructured routine" to everything we do, everything from eating, sleeping, bathing, going for a ride, running errands usually happens in the very same "manner", but on completely different times.

I have three kids, two girls 3.5 and 4.5 years old, and an 11 month old boy, so most of the planning revolves around the babys need for naps and sleep.

They certainly do not bathe every night, they get cleaned up when they are dirty, sometimes every day, sometimes it goes days in between, but when they do get baths, its the same "bath routine", little girl in shower first, then the big girl, and then the boy goes in the sink (oh yes, Im a sink bather! I figure if it was good enough for me as a baby, its good enough for him







)

We dont really eat at set times, but we always have -some- kind of breakfast, lunch, dinner and bedtime snacks. Neither of them are really hungry in the mornings, so they can be up for a good hour before they are ready to eat.

Baby boy wakes up around 8.30 or 9.00 am and he gets a bottle, when hes done eating he wakes the girls up with his lovely voice, then we just mill around for an hour basically, clean diapers, I make coffee, the girls gets a drink, call the hubby/daddy (he works away from home) and when all that is said and done, they eat breakfast, all three of them.

Lunch usually happens some time during the babys first nap, he wants to go back to sleep somewhere between 12 and 1, and sleeps for an hour and a half.

After that, we run errands that needs to be done, back home, have a snack and little man is ready for his second nap. Sometimes we ALL nap. And when he wakes up, its usually time for dinner, because then we are all hungry, this can be anywhere from 6pm to 9pm.

And "bedtime routine" is non existant, they all lay down, and go to sleep around 10pm, and the only thing that "has" to be done before then is clean up the play room and toys and brush their teeth, if dinner was early they want a sandwich or something first. When they are ready with eating cleaning and brushing, its very "undramatic", I just tell them its night time and tuck them in, give little man his bottle and when hes done, they are usually all asleep. Its a pure blessing... it took some time to find the "magic time" when they were all ready to sleep at the same time, but man, it makes my life so much easier!

People has had many comments about our "style" too, about not doing the bath/story/cuddle or likewise, but I am just happy, and proud, that my kids are so relaxed and comfortable that going to bed is just another part of the day, we just -do- it. It wasnt always so though... but thats another story LoL.

So yeah, everything ususally happens in the "same way" but never really at the "same time". Someone above said it well, its not a routine, its a rythm


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

We recently spent time with a family with very little set routine, esp. around bedtime, and it was definitely interesting. What we saw was that the baby of the family was up beyond the point at which he was tired, to the point of being overtired, and he wasn't happy. The older kids seemed like they could have used to go to bed, they were clearly tired, but they would start a video game or a movie, and then be up for another two hours. Then they were hungry after that, so some sort of snack was fixed. Parents went with the flow in a pretty gentle way, but they were tired too (they said so). But, they insisted that their kids were night owls and would go to bed when they were ready. The next day started pretty late, which seems to work for them, as the parents said that the kids are late sleepers. But the kids were often bummed that they missed doing some of the fun morning things our family was doing. It was fine, just a different experience.

FTR, in the summer, we're fairly loose ourselves. My kids do seem to have an internal clock that they work with, and our lifestyle doesn't lend itself to kids being up at 11PM. We have a small hobby farm, so we have morning responsibilities. My kids are active all day, so by the time nighttime comes around thay're pretty well ready to settle down.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

That'd be us!

DH works 2nd shift and doesn't get home until 8pm, we eat supper when he gets home and then he FINALLY gets to spend some time with the kids (his 2nd shift is odd, he works 11am-7:30pm) because in the morning by the time we're all out of bed it's time for him to go to work.

Our kids usually crash around 11pm/12am. Somewhere in there. They aren't tired at all because we're up at 10/11am and they usually take a nap around 5pm until DH gets home from work 










Our meal times are slightly out of wack too but it works for us. They're not usually hungry straight out of bed so they'll eat 'breakfast' about an hour after they get out of bed, lunch around 3 or 4 pm, supper at 8:30pm.

We have no immediate plans to change things, it works for us. We're homeschooling so it's not like we really have a NEED to get up at 6:30am...and on the rare occasions we HAVE needed up early then we try to make sure the kids get to sleep at a decent hour and then they just get up.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
I dunno, reading this thread, I still see patterns and routines here, they're just later.

I wouldn't categorize "early" with "rigid" and "later" with "loosey-goosey" myself--it's neither good nor bad, it's just your kids' schedule.

I will say as a night owl it really really REALLY SUCKED having all three kids turn out to be early birds. Still, when they're super little, what can you do but honor their best bedtime and best risings?

I agree with this. We go to bed early because we go to school and have to wake up at 6 a.m. When it is summer and we don't have any obligations we go to bed much later and eat whenever we feel like it depending on when we get up. DD schedules herself though even then and I pretty much go with it. It also does really suck to have a sleeping preference that is different from your child's. My dd loves to be up early and I would rather not rise until well after noon.

We do stick to some routines and times with our looser bedtime and eating times because my dd does much better with knowing what will come next.
I don't think the way you sleep, nursing, or the way you prefer to be as a family really affects how your child does with no routine. I think what matters is your child's preferences and what helps them to be happiest. I co-slept until my dd was almost five and I nursed until she was three and a half, and occasionally still do, and I had absolutely no routine at all except following my dd's cues until she was almost two and she didn't do as well. She really started to thrive when she started going to daycare and getting a routine. When I realized that about her it really made her happier and all of our lives easier to help her get that need for routine met.

I don't think routine is for everyone, but I don't think it should be something you throw away thinking that it is an indicator that you are a gentle, non-mainstream parent, I know some parents who are very much the opposite of gentle and they are also very against any routine even during the school year. I think that being aware of your child's needs and accepting them even if they go against your desires is a better indicator of gentle, non-mainstream parent.


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

I guess we have a loose routine, but nothing that can't be changed if needed. I've never done the whole dinner, bath, pajamas, read a book, get a drink, potty, and go to bed thing.

We do try to eat dinner by 6pm because dh can't eat too close to bedtime, if we haven't gotten bible study done we do it after dinner or they will watch something on the computer with dh. I try to get the kids in their room by eight so I can put the baby down with me. At least one of the children spend the night at their grandmother's every night, she lives next door, because she doesn't like to be alone in her house. They usually end up watching tv or playing video games over there. Here the kids can either watch a movie with the lights off or more often listen to an audio book in bed. Most nights the 2yo comes back to our bed within a couple of hours.


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## deditus (Feb 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
I read about a lot of moms and know a lot of moms who have a rigid nightime routine that starts with dinner and cascades from there ending in a bedtime around 8p.
Are there moms out there who do not do this? Are there loosy-goosey moms who fly by the seat of there pants, eating dinner at different times, maybe not reading or reading depending on there moods, send the kids to bed when they fall asleep or when they, the parents go to bed?

Just curious if this is the standard or not?


We don't have an early routine, since dh always used to work late and having dinner together is a major priority. Now he gets off work earlier, but still the timing is variable, any where between 3-6. I also grew up being outside until dark and then coming in to eat dinner, and do bath, books, and bed. We generally eat between 7-8, play for a bit, and do bath (most nights), books, and bed. We are usually in bed by 10. Since we eat later, I feed dd a substantial snack when she wakes up from nap to get her through till dinner.


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## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
I dunno, reading this thread, I still see patterns and routines here, they're just later.

I wouldn't categorize "early" with "rigid" and "later" with "loosey-goosey" myself--it's neither good nor bad, it's just your kids' schedule.

I will say as a night owl it really really REALLY SUCKED having all three kids turn out to be early birds. Still, when they're super little, what can you do but honor their best bedtime and best risings?

Yep, this night owl ended up with an early bird. He goes to bed early because wakes early. That's his schedule and I honor that.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

DD goes to bed when she is sleepy....which could be 9 pm or later. DH and I go to bed between 11 and 11:30 pm, so if she hasn't gone to bed before that, she goes to bed with us (since we co-sleep) and usually falls right to sleep. DH and I both WOH so those five or six hours in the evening with DD are valuable to us.

It is useless to try to put her to bed before she is sleepy. I've found that when trying to do so it creates a lot of tension and discord in our house. Others dictate our schedules throughout the day so we're pretty loose about it at home.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CatsCradle* 

It is useless to try to put her to bed before she is sleepy. I've found that when trying to do so it creates a lot of tension and discord in our house. Others dictate our schedules throughout the day so we're pretty loose about it at home.

This is DS, totally. I tried to implement bedtime routines, thinking it would help DS get to sleep earlier, but no dice. He goes to bed when he's ready, period. Anything I do to try to "make" him sleep is just a waste of our family time.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 

Some of the "we don't have a routine" posts seem very "and that makes us not uptight mainstreamers." For most of us, the routine isn't about "Three hours of alleviating anxiety." Its about life.


I don't understand the defensiveness here? No one is saying that not having a routine makes you a better mom!


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karne* 
We recently spent time with a family with very little set routine, esp. around bedtime, and it was definitely interesting. What we saw was that the baby of the family was up beyond the point at which he was tired, to the point of being overtired, and he wasn't happy. The older kids seemed like they could have used to go to bed, they were clearly tired, but they would start a video game or a movie, and then be up for another two hours. Then they were hungry after that, so some sort of snack was fixed. Parents went with the flow in a pretty gentle way, but they were tired too (they said so). But, they insisted that their kids were night owls and would go to bed when they were ready. The next day started pretty late, which seems to work for them, as the parents said that the kids are late sleepers. But the kids were often bummed that they missed doing some of the fun morning things our family was doing. It was fine, just a different experience..

What you described here does not sound like a loose situation that is _working_ for the family.


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## ChetMC (Aug 27, 2005)

When we only had one she went to bed whenever, and it was usually late. She doesn't have much of an internal clock. She just sleeps when she's tired and wakes up when she isn't tired anymore (usually 11.5 hours after she fell asleep). She's well suited to not having a formal bedtime. She's never needed much help going to sleep either. No formal bedtime meant that DH and I could go out with her, and do a lot of stuff in the evening after I'd been home alone all day with a baby.

When our second was a baby I actually let our oldest's bedtime creep up to midnight. She'd stay up late and then sleep in until 11am. When you factor in our second being a baby and having naps, it worked out that I spent almost no time home alone during the day with two children under the age of 2 who were both awake. It worked out really well, and meant that our oldest saw a lot more of DH than her peers who went to be at 7pm.

Our second DD continued night waking for a long time, and was a fairly challenging child between about age 2 and 3. Eventually, we figured out that a lot of it was sleep related. She would have benefited from more routine, a formal bedtime, and a lot more help going to sleep.

For awhile, our middle DD had a routine (albeit a bizarre one that ended with her falling asleep in the stroller) while our older DD stayed up late with us and the baby. This was good since it gave our oldest somewhat of a break from her sister in the evening. Our middle DD got one on one time in the morning since she got up earlier.

Now, both girls have an after supper routine and go to bed around 8pm. Younger DD needs the sleep and she needs to go to bed at that time or she won't get her twelve hours, older DD is starting school and this will have her getting enough rest to get up on her own for school, and DH and I spend some time with DS in the evening, since he goes to bed whenever he seems tired... which is usually between 9pm and 11pm.


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## alicia622 (May 8, 2005)

Not much of a routine here! We eat supper anywhere from 6-8, bath might be at night, might be in the morning and he's asleep between 8-10. Once the neighbor kids go back to school we will probably be inside earlier and likely have a bit more structure. One thing that always happens is watching a show and having a snack/drink before bed. Some nights we read books and some nights we tell stories.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

my son is still itty bitty, but we do have a pretty elaborate and fairly fixed schedule. We eat, play, go on a walk, lay down, maybe eat once more. starting about 7:30 and ending between 9:00 and 9:30.

DH and I both work FT (pass-the-baby, not daycare) so our entire life is pretty much scheduled out to the micro second. You can't have be unscheduled when you have as much in the day as we do


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 

Some of the "we don't have a routine" posts seem very "and that makes us not uptight mainstreamers." For most of us, the routine isn't about "Three hours of alleviating anxiety." Its about life.

My kids needed to eat at relatively set times, in that they couldn't go for very long without eating. Having an entirely unpredictable dinner wouldn't work, and neither would waiting until one of us adults remembered. By then, the kid would be miserable, whiney, and even melting down.










:

if we don't have some kind of schedule, EVERYTHING is a disaster. if we let DD nap when she felt tired, she would nap at 4 pm, stay up until 2 am, and we would all be miserable.

i'm realizing the point of a bedtime routine in our case is really more for us, in the sense that if we go into bedtime expecting it to take an hour, it is a lot less annoying when it does









and i really don't get the 9 pm dinnertime. if it works for you, that's good, but my parents did the sporadic/late dinnertime, and it was AWFUL for me. i was so hungry, and by the time we ate, i was exhausted, and i never got enough sleep because after dinner i was too awake to sleep.

the main setpoints in our schedule are meals. breakfast is soon after wake-up (so about 8), lunch is around 11:30-11:45, because nap/quiet time is at 12 (DD would like it to be later, but if it is, then she won't go to bed). then dinner is at 6, maybe 6:30.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
I don't understand the defensiveness here? No one is saying that not having a routine makes you a better mom!

I think it was mostly this:

Quote:

It makes sense too - if you have the comfort of the family bed, why would you need three hours of anxiety-relieving bedtime routine designed to get you to sleep by yourself?

Of course, this will vary. Some kids (and parents) will feel a lot better with routine, but I really think for AP parents, especially those who cosleep, routines are not as necessary (in most cases).
That most clearly says that routines are made necessary by non-AP sleep practices.

In fact, my kids *both* made their sleep needs quite clear. Both of them wake with the birds. No matter when they fall asleep. So if we keep them up really late, they don't get enough sleep. And then they get overtired the next day, and wind up fighting sleep, getting hyper, and being miserable.

It's easy to look at a baby or small child who has hit that point - wound up and overtired to the point of hysteria - and think "Oh, he's not sleepy." But when we figured out that DS was going to be up at 6am every morning no matter what we did, and that he needed a good 10 hours of sleep a night, it was a no-brainer to shoot for 8pm, plus or minus a half hour to 45 minutes, as a bedtime. It really had very little to do with "anxiety relieving," and everythign to do with meeting his needs and helping him be a more relaxed and happy kid.

A lot of people will say that "sleep self-regulates." That might be true - -in the absence of artificial light and television. Barring that, however, very few humans are truly self-regulating as to sleep, and even babies can have their sleep cycles messed up by modern life.


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## caro113 (Aug 25, 2008)

I don't know if that's what she was getting that, just that AP parents tend to not need a routine bc they listen to their children's needs and follow that, as opposed to some "mainstreamers" who have strict bedtimes and may or may not have practiced CIO. I don't think she was saying that only mainstreamers have routines, just that they tend to do it more so than AP parents. If that makes sense without being offensive.

As I said before, we just do what feels right. DD sleeps, eat, plays, when she wants/needs to. She will let me know when she needs to sleep and that's okay. DP works 2nd shift and doesn't get home until 12:30am or so I'm not bothered by staying up later to clean up the house after she went to bed.

Of course, in the beginning, she was on a very strict sleeping schedule. Seriously. She slept at the same time every day. It was to the point where you could set a clock by the way she slept. But she put herself on that schedule and I didn't want to interfere. That's what her body wanted. For the most part, I liked it because I could easily plan my nights, but then I also didn't like it because she was up for the day at 6am :yawning: At least now she gets up at 8am.

Although, now that we've moved, I sort of set up a routine for myself. DD wakes up around 8am. She has a quick breakfast and then I put her in the tub since she usually has managed to take off her diaper and pee on herself. While she's playing in there I put on the coffee. (She's literally 10 feet away and I can hear her playing so it's okay. I've stayed out of eyesight but was still able to view her for nearly 15 minutes and she didn't care at all) Then I grab a bagel and by the time I'm done eating that, she wants out. I get her out and then the coffee is ready, which means Daddy gets up. It's been working for the past few days so we'll see if that keeps up. But that's more of a routine for me and DP, not for DD. But hey, as a PP said, some children do better with structure. That's how I plan to approach schooling. I plan to unschool, but if she needs the structure of a schedule, then we'll get some lesson plans and such. It's all up to her.

PS: Savithny: The very fact that you realize your children need to go to bed at certain times is exactly what I'm saying. It's about listening to children's needs. You son needs to go bed around 8pm so that's what you do. Good for you!


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## Dandy (Oct 7, 2006)

We definitely have a routine, that Elliott chose







My husband works late, and he won't go to sleep until Daddy is home, at which point Daddy gets into his jammies and settles into his chair. Then Elliott climbs up there and USUALLY goes to sleep on him. So my part of the routine involves having his teeth brushed and diaper changed before Daddy gets home. Then he goes to his room for the first part of the night... and usually comes in to sleep with us in the wee hours of the morning.

It's not some kind of schedule we come up with, but yes, we have a predictable routine.

I didn't find that giving him a bath after dinner and reading stories etc. made him ready to go to sleep any sooner. In fact, he usually gets really wound up in the tub, splashing and yelling and all that.

I do envy parents who have some kind of control over the family routine







It would be nice to say "Elliott's going to bed at 8PM" and we could watch that grownup movie or... whatever.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caro113* 
I don't know if that's what she was getting that, just that AP parents tend to not need a routine bc they listen to their children's needs and follow that, as opposed to some "mainstreamers" who have strict bedtimes and may or may not have practiced CIO. I don't think she was saying that only mainstreamers have routines, just that they tend to do it more so than AP parents. If that makes sense without being offensive.

!

Yes, my post was not meant as an attack on families with routines, but more of a philosophical point that routines in our culture (especially BEDTIME routines) tend to be more geared toward getting a child comfortable sleeping alone, although that is not always the case. The "kids with AP parents don't need routines" came out of what I read in my child development book about kids who cosleep not needing routines as much - and I don't buy that it's only the case in tribal cultures, because lots of more developed countries view cosleeping as normal, and they even have *gasp* electricity and stuff. I also very clearly pointed out that this is not the case for EVERY CHILD or EVERY FAMILY.

** * just deleted a big old long spiel about how different cultures view time and a child's place in the family and blah blah blah...but I decided it was probably getting too deep for this thread.


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## SaraC (Jan 11, 2002)

We have a pretty set routine. My older kids, ages 8 and 6, go to school so they are in bed by 8. My 2 yr old is in bed by 7 because she needs to sleep a lot and when Georgia isn't happy the house is miserable.







She also naps at the same time everyday and still needs it. We do eat breakfast at the same time simply because of school. Bath is pretty much at the same time everyday for the older kids and varies with my 2 yr old and 5m old depending on how dirty they are. And we eat dinner basically at the same time everyday between 5-6 except Tuesdays when we have church.

My 5m old is pretty predictable too but I don't "enforce" bedtime with her since she wants to nurse a lot but she is usually in bed by 9 in our room and sleeps with us through the night.

Even though our routine is pretty set we do vary from it if something we want to do comes up. During the summer bed time is later for the older girls but pretty much stays the same for my 2 yr old since she needs the sleep.

I have found that we are all much happier when we get the sleep we need and sometimes I have to be the "bad guy" and tell my kids to go to bed. If I let my 8yr old stay up as late as she wanted, even in the summer, she would not sleep later the next day and be a mess by dinner time.


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## mandib50 (Oct 26, 2004)

i'm so happy to see i am not the only parent without a set routine/bedtime for the kids. i was beginning to wonder if i was the only one


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## Pepper44 (May 16, 2006)

We don't have a set schedule, but we have worked out a routine that works best for DD. She likes to go to bed between 7 and 8:30 every night. She physically can't stay up any later. I don't put her to bed until she's ready, and every single night she gets her blanket and asks for milky, usually around 7:30.

We eat supper at different times. Since DD likes to go to bed around 7:30 right now we have been trying to eat a little earlier. She wakes up at dawn no matter what time she goes to sleep! And the only sleep "rule" we enforce is no naps. At all. Ever. (Aside from being sick or something.) I figured out if she naps then her mood is ruined for an entire week. I don't know why, or what happens, but she will fall asleep late in the afternoon then wake up a few hours later hysterically angry and grumpy. Then she can't sleep until past midnight. Then she still wakes up with the birds. Rinse and repeat for days. It's horrible. So no napping, even though I do miss the quiet time it gave me during the day.

I think there is a very fine line between letting your children dictate their sleeping habits and not parenting them to sleep at all. I used to provide childcare for a family who let their 1 year old sleep whenever he felt like it, and seriously he was miserable. He would fall asleep at random times during the day after crying and crying. He always seemed tired. I think you can find your child's natural rhythm and encourage them to sleep at semi-regular times rather than just waiting for them to pass out.

If you know your child can stay up late and sleep late, that's part of their natural rhythm you can follow. Or if you know your child will stay up late then still wake up early and be grumpy all day, you keep that in mind when you encourage them to sleep.

I think kids like having a basic order to when they eat and sleep. Not a schedule exactly, but just knowing that so many hours after they've woken up an adult will recognize they are getting sleepy and cuddle/nurse/whatever them to sleep.


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## Landover (Oct 12, 2007)

We defintely have a routine and things we do, but it is not out of a "we must do x,y, then z type of place. We just do what works for us and my family runs very smoothly. In my opinion, children need some sort of routine so that they know what to predict in life and can make sense of all of it. Without that, my kids get very cranky and over tired. When we stry too far from the norm, they seem out of sorts because we as parents have failed to provide them with the stability they need. I can't imagine how badly my DS's behavior, creativity, and rationale thought would diminish if we were to carry him upstairs everynight when he just got too tired to play anymore?!

Yep, we eat at the same time each night because we wait for DH to come home from work and by this time we are all hungry. We don't snack too much, and I am a firm believer in a nutritionally dense, family meal every night. We bond over dinner and then, while I clean up the meal, DH generally plays with the kiddos as he has been at work during the day. Then we bath them and put our sleepy children to bed. Honestly, we co-sleep, but I have always nursed/rocked my infants to sleep and put them in a basinnett until the wake to nrse the first time anyway. I deeply value my alone time to reconnect with my husband, have a cocktail on the deck, and relax as an adult for a couple of hours.

That being said, there are night when DS has a baseball game or we are out with friends and my kiddos are out later.

So.... nope, no way. We are not loosey goosey and I love it. I love our nights as they are a set of predictable, fun, family driven behaviors that make our home run smoothly and well.


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## amma_mama (May 20, 2008)

We "go with the flow" with DD and have since birth. We have dinner between 7:00 and 8:30 on most nights. There is no set routine in terms of activities. Sometimes bathtime is before dinner, sometimes after dinner, sometimes in the morning, or sometimes not at all. Now that DD is 5, she is pretty good about telling us when she is ready to sleep, which is anywhere between 9:00 and 10:30. I try to encourage her to go to bed before 10:00, though, as we do have to get up for school/work in the morning. Right now the start of school/work is a bit flexible, but when she starts Kindergarten at a more formal school, then I think we will have to be a little bit more structured in terms of bed time and waking up.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Up until about a month ago, we didn't really have any sort of routine. We ate dinner sometime between 5 and 8 and kinda went to bed whenever.

Now that ds is in Kindergarten we have a loose schedule. Dinner is around 6 or so. Bath time is either after dinner or while we're making dinner (depending on who is making it). He can play for a bit or watch a movie. Teeth get brushed around 8 or 8:15 and he's in his bedroom by 8:30. He almost always chooses not to go to sleep at that time, so he plays with his trains and reads books until he's tired then crawls into bed.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Both kids have had a pretty set sleeping and waking schedual since early in their infancy. DD goes down around 10, up at 9. DS goes down around 9, up at 8. I had nothing to do with it, that's just the way they seem to be wierd.

We do not follow any set schedual outside of getting quiet when DH goes to bed, sometime between 8 and 10. To facilitate the settling down I will dim the lights and guide the kids towards quieter activities. I'm sure this helps to cue them for bed time, but that is not the purpose (just a happy perk







).

DS is not quite 2, so I watch him for his "I'm ready to go to bed" yawns and eye rubbing and then nurse him down. DD is almost 6. Until recently, she has just said, I want to go to bed, and I snuggle her down. I have no idea what is going on this past month or 2. She has entered a very clingy, frightened of the dark phase so she really needs me to guide her to bed or she would stay up all night fighting sleep.


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## SweetPotato (Apr 29, 2006)

I've always felt like we're big old slackers for not pushing a bedtime routine and early bedtime. Really, we're kind of lazy and dh and I would rather enjoy the evening together however we feel like it at the time, rather than having us all fixed into spending an hour+ on a rigid routine. I'm home with dd all day, and we're both cranky around 1pm --so I definitely still appreciate that she naps every afternoon (even though many kids her age don't- she's ~3.5yo) Because of the nap, she's not really ready for bed until 9-10-- which is totally fine with us. I guess our unintentional loose "routine" (give or take a half hour or so) is that dh gets home around 6pm, he plays with dd while I finish dinner, we eat around 6:30, then we either go outside to play with the neighbors or go for a walk or take a bath or whatever, usually around 8 we'll watch a "grown up" show (Gray's Anatomy or micsellaneous PBS)-dd sometimes watches and cuddles, sometimes plays in the room with us, and then we'll brush teeth, dh will read her a couple of stories in bed, and then I'll lay down with her while she falls asleep (she usually wakes once at night and then around 7-7:30am) I think that we end up being somewhat regular in our evening activities, but I'm glad that dd doesn't seem to require any elaborate, rigid routine-- I think if we gave up our flexibility to take walks, play outside, play a boardgame, run to the store, bake cookies, watch a show (with popcorn and hot cocoa)- I'd go a bit batty. We're all just ready to unwind at the end of the day, and neither dh nor I has the energy or inclination to spend our whole evening preparing dd for bedtime. I guess we're lucky that this works for all of us!

I expect that we'll be more mindful of bedtime once dd starts school and we actually have to BE somewhere in the mornings. As it is, we all really enjoy that she's awake for a few hours when dh is home in the evenings-- the days when she skips naps and then is mean all afternoon until passing out at 6pm (and then waking at 4:30 am) are really just crummy for everybody.


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## lonegirl (Oct 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caro113* 
Nope nope and nope

The only "routine" is that we get up around 8am. Every day. Why? Because that's when DD gets up. Other than that, we eat when we feel like it and feed her when she wants it. If we're both hungry then we both eat (bc DP is usually at work) at the same time, but it's easier not. DD likes when I "help" feed her by handing her food and then she takes them and feeds them to herself.

She naps when she wants to nap and goes to bed when she wants to go to bed. Usually bed time is sometime around 9ish, but not always. And she usually gets up around 4am for a midnight snack, or just to crawl into bed with us (We side bar basically), but again, not always.

I don't really believe in setting such routines. She's a child and she needs to be able to express herself in any way shape or form. It's not dangerous and it doesn't affect anyone but our little family, and we aren't bothered by it. I don't believe in bedtime, either. When I was little, I had a bedtime, and I always made a point to stay up later playing with my toys or something. Once my parents stopped enforcing a bedtime, I started going to bed around the same time every night and I was no longer tired during the day.

I know too many moms who are waaay to strict with bedtimes and routines. That doesn't mean every mom who has set routines is too strict, just some of the ones I know. I feel my daughter needs to set her own schedule by what her body needs. It will always let her know when it's time to eat, when it's time to play, when it's time to sleep.









:

This is very much like us. Right from the beginning we went with the flow. Tyr nursed on demand, slept when he needed and woke when refreshed. Now at almost three he still goes to sleep late with us (like 11p-1230a). This makes more sense for us as we are up late and sleep a bit later. He always wakes before 930 but the time varies. He naps when sleepy...generally during a drive or a stroller walk or an afternoon daddy snuggle. We are so often not at home until late that an early bedtime doesn't make sense. Soon enough (at 5ish) when he is in school times will have to be more orderly but until then this works best for us. It affects no one but ourselves and DH and I have always been a go with the flow sort. When Tyr is hungry he tells me and I get him food...lol much to the the chagrin sometimes of other because they think I am ruining his appetite for dinner (not this boy!!)









So I say to each his own!!


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## WinterPearl (Aug 29, 2009)

The only reason that we have set times for anything is because thats when DS cues for it. He always wakes up at the same time pretty much everyday, bugs me for lunch around 12 most everyday, naps are starting to change, and we have always put him to bed at 8pm due to the fact that he will stay awake from 8am to past 12am if we did not put him to bed by himself. Recently we've let him stay up till 9pm if is not acting cranky. Ever since he was a baby he wouldn't sleep as long as he was in the same room with someone else quite or not. (he's only 2 1/2 btw)


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## sewchris2642 (Feb 28, 2009)

I've read all 4 pages and I have a question. What does a schedule have to do with the clock? I read over and over again "we eat dinner, take a bath, have quiet play time, read a book, go for a walk, etc., then bed". What time is on the clock or where bed is is irrelevant. It's not what it's called, it's who imposes it and why--the parent without regard to the needs of the child or the child who just might need the guidance of the parent to develop it.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
I read about a lot of moms and know a lot of moms who have a rigid nightime routine that starts with dinner and cascades from there ending in a bedtime around 8p.
Are there moms out there who do not do this? Are there loosy-goosey moms who fly by the seat of there pants, eating dinner at different times, maybe not reading or reading depending on there moods, send the kids to bed when they fall asleep or when they, the parents go to bed?

Just curious if this is the standard or not?

Yep, that's us. My husband isn't home until 7 pm most days. I don't make them go to bed at a particular time, and I don't make them get up at a particular time. I generally am in bed by midnight or earlier, and up by 8 or so. My daughters sleep until they wake. My oldest normally sleeps until 11 am and my youngest usually sleeps until 9 or 10 am. We don't sit down for meals with my husband because he often eats with plate in hand, whether on the couch, standing while watching tv or takes his plate in his computer room and eats while playing video games. We almost always shower and then read in bed before turning off the light and going to sleep. There are times when we choose not to read, but it's rare. My kids still do not go to bed alone. They have fallen asleep on the couch sometimes, but usually they do the shower, read in bed and got to bed with mom and dad routine, it's just not that rigid, though.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Ds' natural rythm has him up at THE crack of dawn, so I impose a loose bedtime. Generally by 9ish. He also does not seem to appreciate bathing in the a.m. so we do baths at night. He is a cranko if not fed dinner by 6:30 or so, unless guests are over. This has established a loose schedule. Schedule is easily broken by special events.

Always read before bedtime, unless he falls asleep in the car or something. This is a personal preference. No matter how bad our day was, snuggling and quietly reading a book is a wonderful way to end the day, IMO.


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## battymama (Jan 15, 2008)

Dh and i are both night birds, and luckily so is dd. Her bedtime varies pretty wildly, sometimes 8 or 9 if she hasnt napped, sometimes 12sh or even later if she had a long nap or if she is worked up. We only have one heater so we genrally have it on in our longe room at night and put her to sleep with us in there, then move her into bed with us when we go and the heater goes with us.

She gets up anywhere between 9 and 1 usually she sleeps 12 to 13 hours, but she wakes alot to feed in the am (or pm if she gets up late







: ) A lot of people are on my case about this, but it suits us great, when she gets older and if she doesnt home school then we will adjust.


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## major_mama11 (Apr 13, 2008)

Oh, thank goodness, I'm not the only one. We tried the set routine at various points in DD's life, but generally, no matter how utterly worn out she is, nothing will get her to sleep before 10:30 at the earliest, and usually closer to midnight. She just seems to be a born night owl. This was really exacerbated last year when I was working nights and wasn't around to help her get to sleep, and she has just kind of stuck with that late routine.

I came from a strict bedtime household, whereas DH was raised in a home where the kids just kind of ran wild until they crashed. Sometimes I wish we had more of a set routine...

We do have a general routine we tend to fall into, with a bath most (not all) nights, followed by either storytelling or a movie, or rocking to sleep. Depends on the night. Some nights we all hang out at my in-laws' house till pretty late, since they're just next door. She doesn't seem any worse for the wear, since she rarely has to get up before 10 am. She generally gets 11-12 hours of sleep per day, which seems pretty healthy for a 3.5-yo kid.

Funny thing is, DH and I are both naturally wired to be early birds- we were always in bed around ten, up by seven, before we had kids. DS seems to be a natural early bird also, so I'm hoping that DD will gradually ease into an earlier routine now that all the lights are dimmed in the house so early to help DS stay asleep.

Anyway, we're homeschooling, so even if she stays a night owl, we'll all manage OK.


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## RubyBaby (Apr 6, 2009)

We're very lax! Our baby is the one who's closest to having a bedtime, which is around 8. Other than that we always eat at different times and our after dinner activities are always different as well. We'll go to bed as a family anytime between 8:30 and 11. My three year old is quite happy with things this way and since I'm planning on homeschooling making a set routine isn't a big thing.


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## JennTheMomma (Jun 19, 2008)

We don't have a routine. We do things every night, like eat and do stories, but no set time. Hunter is 2 years old and he certainly knows when he's tired enough for bed. I've seen moms who have routines and they seem so stressed, mainly because they want the kid to go to bed at this time, and they aren't tired yet. Hunter normally goes to bed at the same time on his own, but if he doesn't, no big deal.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Landover* 
I can't imagine how badly my DS's behavior, creativity, and rationale thought would diminish if we were to carry him upstairs everynight when he just got too tired to play anymore?!

From reading your whole post I can tel that what you are doing works for your family, but I felt like this was a side ways way of saying something about what PP were saying? And I don't think anyone in this thread does that, just let's their kid play to the point of exhaustion....and atleast in our case my dd always wants cuddle time, initiates it and has what she calls "welaxin" time and then drifts off to sleep with her daddy on the couch. It's not like we find her passed out on the bathroom floor at midnight or something!


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## ForLife (Aug 26, 2009)

We have a children on a somewhat strict schedule. They get home from school about 2:30 and relax for a couple of minutes eat thier snack. Then at 3-4:30 they do homework. Eat dinner between 4:30-5:30, shower, then tv or play outside if they have time.We usually get in prayer before going to bed which is like 7:30. We so sports so dinner will be bumped up some if they have to got to practice or whatever activity. But they are always in bed by 8:00. We considered a later time but they wake up at 5:30 for school so any later would not be enought sleep for them. My kids are 9, 7 and 4. Every parent has to figure what works best for them as far as bed time and for out family this works out.


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## BetsyS (Nov 8, 2004)

We're weird. We don't have a set routine, but we have a pretty firm bedtime.

Sometimes we eat supper at 5, sometimes later. Sometimes the kids eat first, and sometimes all 4 of us eat together. Sometimes there is playtime after supper, sometimes not. Sometimes baths, sometimes not.

Sometimes we do the whole drawn-out books, prayers, drink of water thing at bedtime, and sometimes we throw them in the bed with a "good-night".

All of this happens pretty early, though. The baby is asleep by 7 (sometimes much earlier; last week he skipped his nap, and he went to bed at 4:30). The 3 year old is in bed around 7:30 or so.

This works for us, because we like a bit of quiet time in the evening. I also like knowing that our kids are asleep before I relax and go to sleep. Oh, and the grown-up bedtime around here is 9 (my dh gets up at 5 for work), so that pushes everything early.


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## fwlady (May 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gcgirl* 
I was feeling like a terrible mom for not getting DS on some kind of routine until I read something out of my old child development textbook that set me at ease: basically, kids in societies where cosleeping is the norm don't usually NEED routines. Phew! That made me feel a lot better. It makes sense too - if you have the comfort of the family bed, why would you need three hours of anxiety-relieving bedtime routine designed to get you to sleep by yourself?

Of course, this will vary. Some kids (and parents) will feel a lot better with routine, but I really think for AP parents, especially those who cosleep, routines are not as necessary (in most cases).

I haven't read any such book, but I think this is SOOO true. I have older kids that don't like to sleep alone too. But, unfortunately, they will stay up playing all night if I let them, like 2-3am, and be unable to get up in the morning. This is most likely to happen when we actually have morning appts.







:

The children that cosleep just bed when they fall asleep, or when I do, but I am a night owl. I have some kids that are, and some that are not morning people. I have been able to get the kids to go to bed earlier (this is 10pm or so in their beds) and then are up at the crack of dawn. I don't know HOW they just don't sleep a normal amount for their ages.

Because of my Dh's work schedule, it is either getting them to sleep earlier to keep from waking him, or just keeping them quiet until 1am when he gets up for work. It is CRAZY! I didn't mind not having a schedule/routine, but with this many children (going on 8), I have to get them on some type of schedule, but we don't do a routine. We bathe when kids need baths. We try to eat between 5-6pm, but if we ate a brunch, and then a late lunch, then it might be 7pm. Only my oldest goes to PS, so he beds himself at this point, so he isn't so tired. The others HS, so it is flexible, but I try to get them up at 8:30am. It is the littles that don't school yet that are up at the crack of dawn now, just because I want them to go upstairs by 8-9pm.

So, no routines, just a slight schedule for my sanity. Kymberli


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Our routine is loose, but bedtime is fairly strict. With his Montessori wanting all kids there for circle time at 8:30, we need to be out of the house in the morning by 7:50. He needs to go to bed by 9pm in order not to be a total grumble bug at 7am. Last night, we didn't make it (he went by bed about 9:40) and even his teachers at Montessori noticed that he wasn't up to his normal levels of happiness and energy.

But routine-wise . . . dinner starts getting cooked whenever we get home, which means that it can be served anywhere between 5 and 8, depending on how complicated it is. After dinner, we play, we read, we watch tv . . . until it's time to go upstairs. His only bedtime "routine" though is that he needs to brush his teeth and go potty. He generally gets 2-3 baths a week, not always in the evening . . . so baths can be part of the bedtime "routine" but are not a regular part. (He also showers daily after his at-school swimming lessons, so he's not that dirty )


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
By rigid I meant that you stick to a bedtime, a routine and a certain set of things that happen every night. I didn't mean that simply falling asleep early means your bedtime routine is rigid.
And by loosy-goosey I meant that you easily go with the flow of differing times and differing activities preceding bedtime.

I never planned to. But I have a kid on the spectrum that from very early on *needed* a rigid routine and to fall asleep early.

So loosey-goosey didn't work for us, no matter how much I wanted it to.


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

We try to stick with a routine, although the time varies. Honestly, we need to get on an earlier schedule with school around the corner. The routine is dinner, pick-up time, bath, pj's, teeth, books, bed. Dinner starts it all, and when dinner is late, the rest of it ends up late. We aren't both home from work until 6pm most nights, so dinner at the earliest is 7pm. And it's all slid on these late summer nights, kids up till 9 or 10, or even later some nights. Our kids are in child care two days a week, so it has really depended on the day but we HAVE to get things moved up. DD starts 5 day a week Kindy in a week! Bus picks up at 8:15 am.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

My older child was a very high needs infant and toddler and is a very empathic, sensory, emotional child. She is particular about putting things e.x.a.c.t.l.y. the way they 'should' be. She insists I allow her to fix things that are crooked out out of order according to whatever her head is telling her is the right way it should be. I knew early on that strict, rigid routines would set her up for becoming neurotic about certain changes from said routine. I believe my flexibility and go with the flow attitude helps her quite a bit in adjusting to change and gives her time to process her emotions. There is no 'hurry up and get over it attitude' in my house and absolutely no arbitrary rules enforced. My husband is so bad about both of those things and I always have to remind him because it's such a habit for him from the way he was brought up. (I'm not saying anyone here has that, I'm just saying we don't. - man I hate feeling the urge to put in a disclaimer cause I just know someone will take personal offense from what I'm typing.)


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
I read about a lot of moms and know a lot of moms who have a rigid nightime routine that starts with dinner and cascades from there ending in a bedtime around 8p.
Are there moms out there who do not do this? Are there loosy-goosey moms who fly by the seat of there pants, eating dinner at different times, maybe not reading or reading depending on there moods, send the kids to bed when they fall asleep or when they, the parents go to bed?

Just curious if this is the standard or not?

Routine seems to be standard among most of the families I know, but we don't have one and I emphatically don't want one. We eat dinner when they're dad gets home, between 5:30-7 depending what's going on, then we do whatever with our evenings, sometimes read for awhile (together or separately), put on a movie or show at some point, maybe play a game, have a snack, etc. We sleep when we're tired -- sometimes the kids fall asleep on the couch and we move them to bed, sometimes the older one acts grumpy and tired but refuses to settle down for sleep and gets sent to bed to read, everything works out and eventually we're all sleeping. Works for us.


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