# Birthing at hospital - can they force you to send baby to nursery?



## milliegirl (Apr 3, 2006)

I am almost 33 weeks pregnant and have been high-risk/on bedrest since 14 weeks. Although my first choice was to go to a small, birth-friendly hospital about an hour away, under the care of a CNM, I have been stuck at the large, teaching hospital close by because of my situation (preventive cerclage/bedrest/monitoring by peri/care by OB). I am very unhappy about having to deliver there as their birth practices are way out of alignment w/ mine. However, I have a doula and she feels confident that I CAN have the birth I want (basically unmedicated w/ as little interference from the hospital staff as possible) if I educate myself and stick to my guns.

The bigger issue looks like it will be postpartum. I just got home from 10 weeks of hospital bedrest a couple of weeks ago and was on the postpartum unit the whole time. While the nurses were very nice and took good care of me, it became SO apparent that their philosophies/protocols re: neonatal care are very old school. They talked about the "need" to take the babies to the nursery for monitoring every so often; looked at me like I had 3 heads when I talked about not bathing the baby (just wiping her down to rub in the vernix); etc. Before I went there I was very adamant about having baby room in and not be separated from me/DH, but now I am UNWAVERING.

Reading another post here though, it sounded like some mamas had their babies forcibly taken from them and brought to the nursery. CAN THEY DO THIS? What if I just flat-out refuse? Can they call CPS? I know they will give me a hard time about doing the post-birth stuff in the room (they say "all of the equipment is in the nursery" so you HAVE to go there), but if this is the case I or someone else (DH, mom, etc) will go and hold the baby/supervise while they do it.

Oh, and this hospital still has some shared PP rooms. So if they are full-up, I may have to share a room. This sounds like a nightmare because we want peace/quiet and no visitors so we can bond w/ DD.

Anyhow, to be honest this stuff is stressing me out more than L&D at this point. Just wondering if anyone has any words of wisdom to share.

Thanks for any feedback.

Lynn

32 w 5 d
DD due 11/16/06

3 Angels:

Aidan (12 w) 11/03
Brendan (b/d 23 w) 8/04 IC
Littlest Angel (10w) 9/05


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

I'm no help, but can you clarify for me something? I'm assuming there is some sort of PTL going on, but if you get to 37 weeks, is there a reason you couldn't go to the other hospital?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

No. They can't do anything you refuse. It's your child- period.

Now, that doesn't mean that they won't try everything in the book to "make" you. But if you're willing to stand up to them and have some back up (dh, other family members etc) you should be able to keep your baby with you.

-Angela


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## milliegirl (Apr 3, 2006)

mysticmomma: I am "cervically challenged" (like this term better than IC) and had a preventive cerclage at 14 weeks. I had some funneling/shortening (and a super-conservative OB) which landed me in the hospital on bedrest. I'm still on bedrest at home until my stitch comes out at 36 weeks. At that point I become a "normal" pregnant woman again, so my doula suggested the same thing (going to another hospital).

Couple of issues: I don't know how I would find a midwife or OB that would be willing to take me at such a late gestation. I also have a lot of trust issues w/ healthcare providers because of my losses and I'm not sure I could build up enough of a relationship to feel totally comfortable w/ them before the birth. I hate to sound like a victim, but I also am having some issues trusting my body and my baby after so much medical intervention and some really devestating losses (w/ major complications). Intellectually, I believe my body is capable and know this baby is OK, but am struggling still. I know that I do have this choice, but it doesn't seem any less scary to me at this point and DH isn't supportive of it either. I do appreciate the suggestion tho'.


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## courtenay_e (Sep 1, 2005)

Well...what's the prognosis? Do they expect the baby to go to term? I'd say, at 36 weeks, if you make it that far, to switch back to your original provider. I'd dialogue with that provider right now, to be sure that they'll accept you back so "late" in the game.

If that's not possible...no, they have no right to take your child from you without your permission. However, you may have to modify the consent form that you sign upon admission to say (and initial the changes before you sign it...) that you DO NOT give them blanket permission to do any and all procedures that they feel necessary.

If the baby is not ill, is born at term, and does not need to be recusitated, there is no reason that they can't do any and all exams with the baby on your chest. In fact, that is the best and safest place for a normal healthy baby to be examined. Explain to them that you don't want the cord cut until the placenta is DELIVERED, which will put the baby on a tether of sorts for at least that long (and make sure your doula is VIGILANT that they not put traction on the cord to speed the process up...), and keep her on your chest. Your baby does not need any more than a warm wash cloth to get any blood or meconium off of him, so a "bath" in the nursery is completely unnecessary.

I suppose they COULD threaten to, or even actually CALL CPS. That said, the preponderance of evidence is on your side that keeping the baby with you is best for both you and the baby, barring special needs on the baby's part (ie: NICU type care...), and even then, skin to skin contact on a stable baby is best for the NICU babies needs...and taking the baby from a mother without her permission would otherwise constitute kidnapping, and I'd fight that with every ounce of my (and my bank account's) ability. And having a doula with you will really help you to keep your voice heard.

You don't need to be cranky, or loud, or even mean. Just be a broken record. "No, you will be keeping my baby on my chest until she has had a good long nursing session. I'm sorry if you need the room. Your choices are to move me on this bed the way I am, to the post partum room, or wait until the baby has finished nursing, at which time his father can hold him covered with a warm blanket, skin to skin, while you clean me up." "No, you will not be taking the baby to the nursery. Any tests that need to be run can be run with the baby skin to skin with it's mother/father, right here." "No, again, you will not be taking the baby to bathe it. You may keep the baby covered, against me, and do a top to tail with a warm wash cloth to get any meconium and blood off of her. Otherwise, the vernix is fine." "Thank you for all of your help and concern, but the baby will be staying with me." "It's too bad that this doesn't follow 'hospital protocol', but the best place for the baby post partum is on it's mother's chest"

Do you notice that NOWHERE in that group of quotes does it ask ANYBODY if it's OKAY for YOU to keep YOUR baby with YOU? That's because you're paying their paychecks. It's their job to make YOU happy, not the other way around! Be firm, kind, and oh, did I mention FIRM?


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## mary3mama (Apr 2, 2004)

When I had DS#2 in the hospital, he was my VBAC baby, he never ever went anywhere without me or dh. And my hospital wasn't the most mama-baby friendly. Routine interventions and such were, well, routine.

I merely stated that everything needed to be done on my chest/belly until he nursed and then they could only move him to the warmer next to my bed for a few minutes.

When they 'had' to take him to the nursery for a full going-over, my dh went along and would not let them tell him that he had to stay outside the room and watch. There was never even a second when he wasn't touching his son. He knew that I didn't want them to bathe him and that he should pester the hell out of the nurses to get the baby back to me ASAP.

From that point out, he was never out of my sight, or arms (well, unless he was in DH's arms) and then we got the heck out of there at 24 hours postpartum...

Yeah, it makes the nurses jobs a little harder when they have to bring everything to your room for neo-natal stuff -- but it's not your job to make their job easier. It's your job to advocate for and protect your new nursling...


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## gentlebirthmothr (Jul 13, 2005)

Lynn,








with whats going on with you. Don't have anything else to contribute to you situation because I haven't been pregnant or had a baby or thinking of having one at this time of time of life. The hospital by me, I also I'm clerical volunteer in their maternity department is somewhat that hospital you are in and might give birth in as well. When the babies are 1st born and after that they incourage bonding with it when its 1st born after they do whatever they do to them when they come out, so on, rooming in after they been observe for a few hrs expect when the mother requests not or medical problem with one of them or on womens health or whatever else you can think of with this situation. They still do have semi private rooms. This still really hurts me when I see still this been done and also for the moms and babies sake. The moms let it happen there and mostly likely all the other moms in the area or country or world just let it happen as well. Don't let them bring your baby to the warming table after you give birth it or when they bring it to the nursery to observe, warm, do stuff to it, and don't let them do the PKU (forgot what it stands for) in the hospital or vitk or eye groop, spl or hearing test or other stuff that I forgot here. Basically, the warming table is pretty much for NICU purposes, but somehow it ended in well born part of it and also I read that its pretty much like the fast food chains french fry cookers. Don't let them do the test for jaudice and also if it needs light theraphy, don't let them do photo theraphy, but do sun light theraphy or let put them put it in the warming bassinet if they feel it needs it. Really, don't know that much about NICU, but make sure to tell them you want to see it before they take to NICU if not, you want to see it at the 1st chance that you or dh get to see them, no matter what.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
No. They can't do anything you refuse. It's your child- period.

Now, that doesn't mean that they won't try everything in the book to "make" you. But if you're willing to stand up to them and have some back up (dh, other family members etc) you should be able to keep your baby with you.

-Angela


Quote:


Originally Posted by *milliegirl* 
mysticmomma: I am "cervically challenged" (like this term better than IC) and had a preventive cerclage at 14 weeks. I had some funneling/shortening (and a super-conservative OB) which landed me in the hospital on bedrest. I'm still on bedrest at home until my stitch comes out at 36 weeks. At that point I become a "normal" pregnant woman again, so my doula suggested the same thing (going to another hospital).

Couple of issues: I don't know how I would find a midwife or OB that would be willing to take me at such a late gestation. I also have a lot of trust issues w/ healthcare providers because of my losses and I'm not sure I could build up enough of a relationship to feel totally comfortable w/ them before the birth. I hate to sound like a victim, but I also am having some issues trusting my body and my baby after so much medical intervention and some really devestating losses (w/ major complications). Intellectually, I believe my body is capable and know this baby is OK, but am struggling still. I know that I do have this choice, but it doesn't seem any less scary to me at this point and DH isn't supportive of it either. I do appreciate the suggestion tho'.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *courtenay_e* 
Well...what's the prognosis? Do they expect the baby to go to term? I'd say, at 36 weeks, if you make it that far, to switch back to your original provider. I'd dialogue with that provider right now, to be sure that they'll accept you back so "late" in the game.

If that's not possible...no, they have no right to take your child from you without your permission. However, you may have to modify the consent form that you sign upon admission to say (and initial the changes before you sign it...) that you DO NOT give them blanket permission to do any and all procedures that they feel necessary.

If the baby is not ill, is born at term, and does not need to be recusitated, there is no reason that they can't do any and all exams with the baby on your chest. In fact, that is the best and safest place for a normal healthy baby to be examined. Explain to them that you don't want the cord cut until the placenta is DELIVERED, which will put the baby on a tether of sorts for at least that long (and make sure your doula is VIGILANT that they not put traction on the cord to speed the process up...), and keep her on your chest. Your baby does not need any more than a warm wash cloth to get any blood or meconium off of him, so a "bath" in the nursery is completely unnecessary.

I suppose they COULD threaten to, or even actually CALL CPS. That said, the preponderance of evidence is on your side that keeping the baby with you is best for both you and the baby, barring special needs on the baby's part (ie: NICU type care...), and even then, skin to skin contact on a stable baby is best for the NICU babies needs...and taking the baby from a mother without her permission would otherwise constitute kidnapping, and I'd fight that with every ounce of my (and my bank account's) ability. And having a doula with you will really help you to keep your voice heard.

You don't need to be cranky, or loud, or even mean. Just be a broken record. "No, you will be keeping my baby on my chest until she has had a good long nursing session. I'm sorry if you need the room. Your choices are to move me on this bed the way I am, to the post partum room, or wait until the baby has finished nursing, at which time his father can hold him covered with a warm blanket, skin to skin, while you clean me up." "No, you will not be taking the baby to the nursery. Any tests that need to be run can be run with the baby skin to skin with it's mother/father, right here." "No, again, you will not be taking the baby to bathe it. You may keep the baby covered, against me, and do a top to tail with a warm wash cloth to get any meconium and blood off of her. Otherwise, the vernix is fine." "Thank you for all of your help and concern, but the baby will be staying with me." "It's too bad that this doesn't follow 'hospital protocol', but the best place for the baby post partum is on it's mother's chest"

Do you notice that NOWHERE in that group of quotes does it ask ANYBODY if it's OKAY for YOU to keep YOUR baby with YOU? That's because you're paying their paychecks. It's their job to make YOU happy, not the other way around! Be firm, kind, and oh, did I mention FIRM?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *mary3mama* 
When I had DS#2 in the hospital, he was my VBAC baby, he never ever went anywhere without me or dh. And my hospital wasn't the most mama-baby friendly. Routine interventions and such were, well, routine.

I merely stated that everything needed to be done on my chest/belly until he nursed and then they could only move him to the warmer next to my bed for a few minutes.

When they 'had' to take him to the nursery for a full going-over, my dh went along and would not let them tell him that he had to stay outside the room and watch. There was never even a second when he wasn't touching his son. He knew that I didn't want them to bathe him and that he should pester the hell out of the nurses to get the baby back to me ASAP.

From that point out, he was never out of my sight, or arms (well, unless he was in DH's arms) and then we got the heck out of there at 24 hours postpartum...

Yeah, it makes the nurses jobs a little harder when they have to bring everything to your room for neo-natal stuff -- but it's not your job to make their job easier. It's your job to advocate for and protect your new nursling...









, to what Angela, milliegirl, courtenay_e, and Mary said to you on this issue.

Good luck with it.


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## mwherbs (Oct 24, 2004)

where I live one of the hospitals threaten women all the time with taking the baby away-- should this happen -- no but it does and most families cave in and do what they say because they don't really want to risk loosing their baby.

now if there was some life threatening situation they could easily not only threaten but get a court order against you- although parental rights in this country are somewhat respected there are social concerns of child welfare that also come into play-- I have one old client who had her parental rights stripped because she refused a surgery that she felt could be delayed but they disagreed and they won out and not only that took her other children too and she had to "earn" them back


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## MsElle07 (Jul 14, 2006)

I don't believe they can forcibly take a baby out of your hands. But they can make your life really hard. For example, they took my baby while I was sleeping. When I went to get him back, they were feeding him a bottle of formula, despite my oral and written wishes otherwise. I brought him back to my room and was told that I was not allowed to turn off the lights when the baby was in the room because the nurses needed to see. I did it anyway, they would come back in and turn them on. They made it impossible for me to sleep well.

Definitely try to find another care provider if you make it to 36 weeks -- many MWs will take you late in the game if you explain the situation.


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## mezzaluna (Jun 8, 2004)

your DH will be with you for the birth and will be able to stay afterwards? that i think will make a big difference!

in our birth plan we put a number of specific requests, but at the top in bold in a box we wrote the two most important things - that we were trying for a natural birth, and that we wanted one of us with our baby at all times. so that was already on the table.

when DS came out, DH got to hold him and put him on my chest. we asked for DH to cut the cord, so DS was attached to me for a while, and i got to nurse him. then i had some complications from the delivery and things were getting tense...and DH went off to the nursery with DS, but stayed with him. at our request, DS wasn't bathed until much later in the day. and the bathing happened in our recovery room, as did all the other procedures other than the hearing test. they actually wanted us to stay away from the nursery because it was very full and the nurses were quite busy. they were happy to let us rest alone in our recovery room, except for randomly coming in in the middle of the night to bother us









i found it hard to advocate for myself during labor and just afterwards when things suddenly went crazy... i was too inwardly focused on just coping with my labor and then trying to enduring the interventions that happened afterwards. i'm glad we put things in writing in the birth plan, that we'd talked over our birth plan in detail with all the OBs in our practice, and that I had my DH and doula there with me to advocate so that i could concentrate on labor.

it's fortunate in a way that you've gotten acquainted with this hospital, so you know what to expect from them... you'll be much more ready to advocate for what you are going to do that you would have been if this blindsided you...

good luck mama!


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## gentlebirthmothr (Jul 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mwherbs* 
where I live one of the hospitals threaten women all the time with taking the baby away-- should this happen -- no but it does and most families cave in and do what they say because they don't really want to risk loosing their baby.

now if there was some life threatening situation they could easily not only threaten but get a court order against you- although parental rights in this country are somewhat respected there are social concerns of child welfare that also come into play-- I have one old client who had her parental rights stripped because she refused a surgery that she felt could be delayed but they disagreed and they won out and not only that took her other children too and she had to "earn" them back


Quote:


Originally Posted by *MsElle07* 
I don't believe they can forcibly take a baby out of your hands. But they can make your life really hard. For example, they took my baby while I was sleeping. When I went to get him back, they were feeding him a bottle of formula, despite my oral and written wishes otherwise. I brought him back to my room and was told that I was not allowed to turn off the lights when the baby was in the room because the nurses needed to see. I did it anyway, they would come back in and turn them on. They made it impossible for me to sleep well.

Definitely try to find another care provider if you make it to 36 weeks -- many MWs will take you late in the game if you explain the situation.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *mezzaluna* 
your DH will be with you for the birth and will be able to stay afterwards? that i think will make a big difference!

in our birth plan we put a number of specific requests, but at the top in bold in a box we wrote the two most important things - that we were trying for a natural birth, and that we wanted one of us with our baby at all times. so that was already on the table.

when DS came out, DH got to hold him and put him on my chest. we asked for DH to cut the cord, so DS was attached to me for a while, and i got to nurse him. then i had some complications from the delivery and things were getting tense...and DH went off to the nursery with DS, but stayed with him. at our request, DS wasn't bathed until much later in the day. and the bathing happened in our recovery room, as did all the other procedures other than the hearing test. they actually wanted us to stay away from the nursery because it was very full and the nurses were quite busy. they were happy to let us rest alone in our recovery room, except for randomly coming in in the middle of the night to bother us









i found it hard to advocate for myself during labor and just afterwards when things suddenly went crazy... i was too inwardly focused on just coping with my labor and then trying to enduring the interventions that happened afterwards. i'm glad we put things in writing in the birth plan, that we'd talked over our birth plan in detail with all the OBs in our practice, and that I had my DH and doula there with me to advocate so that i could concentrate on labor.

it's fortunate in a way that you've gotten acquainted with this hospital, so you know what to expect from them... you'll be much more ready to advocate for what you are going to do that you would have been if this blindsided you...

good luck mama!









Lynn,








, to what mwherbs, Elle, and Rosemary said to you. I'm so sorry to read what happen at those hospitals or medical centers.

Congratz and good luck again.


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

If it is hospital policy they can do whatever they want. We have a hospital here, Kettering Medical Center, that forces mother baby seperation because the chance the baby could choke at night while everyone is asleep. At night
all babies are taken to the nursery and forced to remain there through the night. I believe the bring babies to mommy for feedings, but that just seems like it would rather difficult and that they would stuff a bottle in their mouth or paci.

I have never given birth their because of their policy. They have also gotten rid of any tubs in the L&D suits, so people cannot water birth or water labor.


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## CEG (Apr 28, 2006)

I am doing my nursing clinicals in maternity now. The hospital I am at does not send babies to the nursery. But, they have a room where the babies go for things like PKU, hearing test, etc. Overall, just question any reason they want to take the baby. Most of the reasons the babies are taken at my hospital are lame. Several of the pediatricians like to do their exam there. Much better IMO to do it in front of the parents and teach them and answer any questions they have.

So, the equipment for the hearing test is on a table and would not be easily moved, but everything else should be able to be done in your room. I have seen fathers in this room during other procedures these babies are having done, so worse case your DH should assert himself and go with, or now I remember I even saw a mommy in there once.

One piece of advice is to avoid "routine" glucose screening for babe. The hospital I am at does them for all large for gestational age babes (over 8 lb 13 oz at term). They are done at birth, 2 h, 4 h, 8 h, 16 h, 24 h. ONE low blood sugar gets a ticket to the special care nursery for "monitoring" and formula and it is HARD to get those babies back. If they are adament about testing INSIST on nursing first and checking blood sugars after. I would also really question any antibiotics they want to give. Again in the hospital I am at they will give antibiotics for anything- rupture of membranes longer than 18 hours, maternal temp (usually related to the 90% epidural rate







), any old reason. This also entails trips to the procedure room.

I would make a big sign for the bassinet that says "Breastfeeding only. NO BOTTLES!" just on the chance you decide to let the baby go for something. It's not that the nurses and aids are mean or bad, they are more ignorant. I have noticed amongst a few the attitude to just give the baby a bottle once, let the momma rest, calm the baby. It's not that they want to hurt the breastfeeding relationship it's that they don't realize the implications of what they do. Also, if they baby is in a bassinet with drawers, check them and take out any formula that is in there (paci's too). Sometimes if it's there it will be assumed it's okay to use it, and it's usually just put there in case you will want it.

One good thing is they are very strict on the consents for vaccines and circumcision. I was so worried my son would get taken while I was sleeping and circed, but at this hospital there is no way they would do that.

Good luck to you. I think you will find if you have your doctor's support and are calm and firm you will not encounter many problems. Don't hesitate to speak to the charge nurse or nurse manager if you need to.


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## DoomaYula (Aug 22, 2006)

At the local hospital here, you can refuse anything as long as you are (1) willing to stand up to the docs and nurses, while they berate you endlessly (2) and then sign a refusal form where it basically says that you're killing yourself or your baby.

Sigh.

Good luck.


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## thefragile7393 (Jun 21, 2005)

Hospitals can try and do whatever they want but ultimately it is your child and YOU DO have the right to refuse whatever and the right to fight. Yes it makes things harder on staff, since you're not "going with the flow" and keeping quiet. Yes you're going to sound like a broken record (one way staff can wear someone down to get them to do what they want is to keep asking/keep seeking to do something) but it is worth it for both of you to stick to your guns and do NOT back down. I cannot stress enough to have an extra support person or persons there to back you up and do what needs to be done to ensure that your wishes will be followed. You are paying THEM to take care of you, you have a right to be cared for and your child to be cared for as you see fit.


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## courtenay_e (Sep 1, 2005)

yes, but be careful that this support person support YOU, NOT use THEIR voice. Around here, if you're too annoying to staff, they'll report you to CPS as being too influenced by an outside source. Yes, really. I know somebody it's happened to. *sigh* god forbid...


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *courtenay_e* 
yes, but be careful that this support person support YOU, NOT use THEIR voice. Around here, if you're too annoying to staff, they'll report you to CPS as being too influenced by an outside source. Yes, really. I know somebody it's happened to. *sigh* god forbid...

Oh that's awful that hospitals will really go that far.."influenced by an outside person". I hope whomever you knew that this happened too came out of it okay. I'd like to think that CPS has enough of a head on it's shoulders to see through things like this-but I know unfortunately that's not always true.


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## rabrog (Dec 20, 2005)

Even better than arguing not to take the baby to the nursery (they'll take the baby there right after birth and then will want to for weight checks, etc. while you're in the hospital) is to have someone with the baby at all times. This could be dh or a grandparent - this person is to stay with baby *AT ALL TIMES*. If they try to say this person can't be in the nursery for whatever reason (they try this at shift changes) then tell them they have to come back for baby when it is convenient for the designated person to be there also.

Jenn


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

I live in a small town area and everyone told me on and on about how they "have" to take to the baby for this and that. I simply put it in my birth plan, and then gave copies to everyone. Dh went with him a couple of times for weighing and a hearing test. Dh did the bath in our room. I think the key is not presenting it as an option, or even asking. You are the parent. You let them know that if they come to ask about any procedure that you or someone else will be going (if you deem them necessary).


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *khaoskat* 
If it is hospital policy they can do whatever they want.


Actually this is not true. You can refuse to let them take your baby. It's your baby. If you won't hand the baby over, what are they going to do, wrestle it away?

-Angela


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Actually this is not true. You can refuse to let them take your baby. It's your baby. If you won't hand the baby over, what are they going to do, wrestle it away?

-Angela

It doesnt matter what hospital policy is. You can check your baby out of the hospital and yourself and leave, or just your baby out and they cant do a damn thing.

I have had three biological children and only one was "kept" from me. However, she did have a medical necessity that I didn't completely understand at the time and that was the reason for our seperation. (we have ABO incompatibility and she had dangerously high bilirueben)
For the next two children, they did not go to the nursery unless I sent them. They stayed with me the entire time, even in recovery after my csections. Jack went to the nursery the second night because I just needed some sleep and I wanted him to have a bath (he started to stink) and they were going to do his hearing screen. He was there I believe three hours and was brought to me when he woke up for a feeding. Katie, the last baby born to us, was with us in our room the entire time unless we accompianed her to the nursery. She had ABO incompatibility and was jaundice at birth. All of her light therapy was done in our room, even though some of the nurses complained. Also, the pediatrician came to our room for the eval because I wouldn't let them take her. Surely if the ped is going to come to my room to tell me about the eval, they can do it right there. I walked her to the nursery for a bath (because frankly, she was nasty) and then another time to do her hearing screen. Both times I was welcomed to just hang out in the nursery and talk to the other moms and nurses. No big deal.
They can't legally FORCE you to put your baby in the nursery. How insane.

Note: Our hospital does have a policy about csection moms, or moms on drugs being left unattended with a newborn. There must be another adult in the room. This is something I did respect because it is not uncommon for csection moms to pass out in the bathroom or have spells. Someone is with me at all times so there is not a "medical" reason to remove my child. I just think this is common sense.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OnTheFence* 
They can't legally FORCE you to put your baby in the nursery. How insane.


Well there you have it, hell is now freezing over because OTF and I agree on something

























-Angela


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Well there you have it, hell is now freezing over because OTF and I agree on something

























-Angela











I knew it was getting chilly down here.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

And hey, anything that you and I can agree on, MUST be true, eh?

-Angela


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## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

ive had 3 babies, 2 in the hospital. they can not legally require you to consent to anything. you hvae to give free consent. if you dont agree, tell them you do NOT consent. period.

good luck!


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

in short: yes, they can force you to send your baby to a nursery and they can indeed report you to CPS if you don't comply or even if you leave the hospital early.

crazy but this is also where we get the "legitimacy" that gets courts to rule in favor of doctors who do things like force women to get a c-section.







s even if you don't give your consent, they can get around it if they really want to by saying that you are not making a judgement in the best interest of your child (or yourself in some cases).... doctors are given an extraordinary amount of power, and power that is completely backed by the judicial system.

happy facism, America.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aura_Kitten* 
in short: yes, they can force you to send your baby to a nursery and they can indeed report you to CPS if you don't comply or even if you leave the hospital early.


They can NOT force you. They can report you to CPS for anything they wish.

One of oh-so-many reasons to homebirth.

-Angela


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
They can NOT force you. They can report you to CPS for anything they wish.

One of oh-so-many reasons to homebirth.

-Angela


ok then can we define "force"?

i could say they "forced" my best friend to put her baby in the nursery for observation, and by that i mean that they called security on her and also told her that she would have all the rest of her kids taken away if she didn't comply. i would say that's being "forced" into it, and that the hospital got away with it. but maybe we're defining "force" differently. ?


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

and yes definitey a reason to homebirth!!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

That's awful that they did that to your friend. Fact of the matter is though, baby is yours (well, hers...). Sadly, they do bully in many ways.

-Angela


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

This is baffling! I gave birth at two different hospitals in SoCal, and at both the staff stressed again and again that the baby was not to be separated from the parents at any time (barring medical emergency). There was no nursery, except NICU. The only exam that couldn't be performed in the room was a hearing test, which the parents were encouraged to attend.

You might call to find out whether the hospital has a patients' advocate, and see if s/he has any legal info for you. Also, read any paperwork that you're asked to sign very carefully. And definitely plan to have a family member with you at all times to handle any pushy people.


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

(I just wanted to add that although I had mostly positive hospital experiences, I'm planning to have a homebirth next time.)


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

No they can't force you to send baby to nursery. My first was a transfer and never went to the nursery.


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## MamaTaraX (Oct 5, 2004)

at Alegna and OTF. I should put that on my calendar ladies









I have a friend who gave birth at my "favorite" Conveyor Belt TechnoBirth facility. She was all gung-ho "nobody's takin' my baby!" before she went in. After a failed induction (her doc even told her it would fail, geez!) she had a c/s. Then she became quite the victim, literally and figuritively. She was tethered (by tubes) to a bed and drugged from here to oblivion. So she was rather incapable of pretty much anything. The baby was taken, a bottle was given...a year later, she's still upset about all of this. I remind her that they did not have to take her baby and she says "oh but they did! THye told me so!" I shake my head and bury my face at every turn. She loved the whole experience overall though (!!!!) and can't wait to do it again...but next time she's going to be more adament about having the baby with her (and this time she'll make sure I'm there for the birth -- an ERCS *sigh*) Anyway, the point o fthat whole story is that no, they can't force you, but they certainly can coerce you.

Namaste, Tara


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaTaraX* 
Anyway, the point o fthat whole story is that no, they can't force you, but they certainly can coerce you.









:

That's what it really comes down to.

-Angela


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## erin_brycesmom (Nov 5, 2005)

I just wanted to add that while they may not be able to force you to allow them to take the baby to the nursery, you have to understand that you may have to make the choice between allowing them to take baby and forfeitting care. The hospital I last birthed in did "allow" rooming in but the baby had to be taken to the nursery within an hour of birth and then in the morning and at night according to hospital protocol. Each time the baby was in the nursery for at least 2-3 hours. This is not "rooming in" IMO.

Yes, I could say no don't take my baby. But, that means I would have to sign an against medical advice waiver and forfeit medical care to my child. I can't force them to care for my child on my terms. They won't do it. WE aren't the only ones who can say no, the hospital can say no too. I never planned on staying at the hospital after the birth and only stayed for 24 hours as it was. The only reason I stayed that long is because his first apgar was a 4 and he had to be rescusitated. His coloring just didn't look right for a long time and it scared me. I felt that something might be wrong but in hind sight I think I was just paranoid and a little traumatized and wish I would have just gone right home. Anywho, I wanted him to be checked out by a pediatrician like all the other babies in the hospital do but they would not check him out unless I allowed him to go to the nursery. I'm sure if he stopped breathing or an emergency happened they would have come to me but that is the only way. I would also have to forfeit him being weighed, measured, and all the other newborn screening (most of which I was declining anyway). I think if you aren't going to let the baby go to the nursery in a hospital that doesn't come to your room to provide care then you might as well go home right away. There isn't much point to being there otherwise. You can't force them to come to your room to do it.


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## MamaTaraX (Oct 5, 2004)

You can't force them to your room to do it...though you can go with them when they do anything. You can take the baby yourself and be right there. I assure you they'll get their stuff done faster if you are standing right there (personal experience). I saw babies lay for hours whereas my baby I took down, they gave him a once over, and handed him right back. Because I was there. When they did the first PKU, I stood at the window and watched. I handed him to the nurse, she had him for less than two minutes, and handedhim right back. I saw another baby do it too and she took him in, and laid him in a bassinette afterwards for who knows how long. So if you do send ababy to the nursery, go with them.

Namaste, Tara


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## erin_brycesmom (Nov 5, 2005)

actually nope, they don't allow the parents in at the hospital I birthed at. Though my dh did follow them and wait outside the window the whole time and if anything it made them take longer because they were spiteful. At this hospital the only time they allow a parent to go in the nursery is for the immediate screening right after birth and it has to be the dh or partner/coach because the mama is "recovering". I figured I'd go anyway since I had nothing to recover from but then I did have some bleeding that wasn't under control so I wasn't in a position to go. It ended up taking longer than the normal stay in the nursery b/c my dh was right there telling them what we didn't want and they actually obliged, but that ended up causing more problems. His body temp was elevated and it took 3 peds to figure out why. They had overheated him in the warmer. They heated him up just like they do babies who get a bath and need to be rewarmed, but since we declined the bath (to get my baby back sooner) it over heated him and he stayed in way longer. Sucky.


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## stayathomecristi (Jul 7, 2004)

Ugh--I'm going through this right now as well. Was planning a homebirth and rec'd concurrent care throughout the pregnancy. Well, it's a long story, but I had to change practices at 38 1/2 weeks (GRRRR). Last night dh and I took a tour at the hospital (he is now against a h/b--yet another long story). Everything went fine till we got to the nursery. The head of the nursery happened to be on last night and told us in no uncertain terms that our baby, just like ALL babies would be staying in the nursery for at least 2 hours shortly after the birth. Parents are NOT allowed







:

I told her that we wanted all newborn assessments done at my bedside and that we would not be having our baby go to the nursery unless there was a medical reason. I asked her why she felt it was so important to take our baby to the nursery and she told me that she HAD to give it a bath and HAD to watch it's temperature. I told her that I wanted to give the baby her first bath and that I wasn't comfortable at all with them taking my kid. (And, anyway, doesn't giving them a bath LOWER their temp?) She was polite, but firm and told me that this is the procedure and that we would have to deal with it. DH could stand in the hallway and watch







:

Well, I was not happy with her answers needless to say and decided that I would call today and speak with the head of nursing on the OB floor. She told me the magic words to say:

"Please notify the nursery that I want non-separation" upon arrival and also put it in writing.

Now, I do not know if this works at other hospitals, but it's certainly worth a try and I would suggest speaking with the head of the L&D department ahead of time. Had I not done so, I know there would be fighting at the hospital. In fact, there may still be, but I know that it's a bendable rule now.

It stinks that we have to fight for our rights like this.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

I think it definitely depends on if you have someone with you- a must really as you don't know what you are going to feel like- even if with non- med- non-intervention birth I did not feel like walking around- 2 days with no sleep. Also, I think the birth plan helps and not just believing them when they say they "have" to do anything. I heard that so many times before Luke was born, but I never gave it an option. The brochure advertises rooming-in and that's what I expected. Also, on the ped, I think that depends on the ped you have. Mine came straight to my room- and then changed Luke's meconium stained diaper.


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## 20605 (Oct 11, 2004)

My dd was born in ABQ NM. They kept trying to take her to the nursery and I refused. I would nurse, then as soon as she fell asleep they would insist I wake her to nurse (you know, every 4 hours is every 4 hours :LOL). Anyway, we solved the problem by having it in our b-plan, but also dh or our friend that acted as doula was there all the time. If they wanted to take the baby, dh or Val went with her. Finally, toward the end, one of the nurses (they were all quite offended by this behaviour), asked if dh thought they were not good nurses...why didn't he trust them? I wonder why!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I told them a polite fiction about his troubled past with hospitals and that, no, it wasn't them specifically, but that he was paranoid about hospitals.

Also, they only took the babe for bath (which dh insisted he give) and for weighing and such...I was lucky I guess.

Good luck and stand firm!!!!


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## MamaTaraX (Oct 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *erin_brycesmom* 
actually nope, they don't allow the parents in at the hospital I birthed at.

Lots of hospitals don't. You can still take the baby down yourself and stand there at the window like a hawk. Trust me, they'll get whatever done much faster with you standing there. For my 2nd's hearint screen, I laid him in the bucket myself and stood in arm's length the entire time. The lady thanked me for doing so, citing that most of the parents just leave the baby, though they are all encouraged to stay right there. I've watched it with other parents too. WHen they take the baby down themselves and stand there, the baby is handed back with much more speed.

This all reminds me of something I'd forgotten: When I had my 2nd, I had this really nice nurse on the post-partum unit. She joyfully bounced in around 1am to take the baby to the nursery. I was all scratching my head and such and she gave me some lameness aout checking out the baby and taking his temperature. I asked could she take his temperature here, were there no thermomenters in the room? She looked comletely perplexed and said "well, yes, I do have one in my pocket" She took his temperature. She "needed" to weigh him. I wasn't sure why, especially not why in the middle of the night. She was really nice though so I said "You can weigh him if I can carry him there myself" She didn't see why not. So she got her stupid weight on him and I took him myself. She personally tucked the baby into my bed beside me and wished me a good night afterward









Namaste, Tara


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## CEG (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stayathomecristi* 

"Please notify the nursery that I want non-separation" upon arrival and also put it in writing.

.

I really hope this does work for you







I would be a little cautious though. The problem is that the OB director is not on the floor. She is in her office somewhere, or she is at home on a night or weekend. If you go in saying she told you this, there is a chance they will continue to tell you it is not allowed, etc. It sounds like if you can get to her she can make it happen. Maybe you can talk to her again and get some personal contact info. I just don't see the staff going along with this too easily... After all, common sense says babe should stay with mom if she asks and they still argued with you about it AND defended their policy. They didn't mention this as an option- even though the director says it is. I would definitely take as many steps to get this put into place early as I could. Best of luck to you with your delivery and babe!

BTW, the bath is for the convenience of the staff, a baby covered in dried vernix, fluid, and blood is a biohazard and you have to put on gloves. A baby who has been washed does not require any barriers.


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## erin_brycesmom (Nov 5, 2005)

Quote:

Trust me, they'll get whatever done much faster with you standing there.
Like I said, that didn't work for us but I'm glad it worked for you.

To those who are about to be dealing with a hospital birth - I would recomend printing out the AAP's policy statment on BFing and taking it with you to present to any staff who tries to take the baby to the nursery, especially this part:

Quote:

Healthy infants should be placed and remain in direct skin-to-skin contact with their mothers immediately after delivery until the first feeding is accomplished.156-158
The alert, healthy newborn infant is capable of latching on to a breast without specific assistance within the first hour after birth.156 Dry the infant, assign Apgar scores, and perform the initial physical assessment while the infant is with the mother. The mother is an optimal heat source for the infant.159,160 Delay weighing, measuring, bathing, needle-sticks, and eye prophylaxis until after the first feeding is completed. Infants affected by maternal medications may require assistance for effective latch-on.156 *Except under unusual circumstances, the newborn infant should remain with the mother throughout the recovery period*.161
http://www.breastfeedingtaskforla.or...ement.htm#R152

I found that when I was in the hospital they liked to throw the AAP's recomendations out left and right, like when I went for my early discharge. I think it would have been helpful or at least priceless had I had a copy of this to whip in their faces when they tried to take the baby to do all of the above things in the nursery. Funny they only seem to care about the AAP's recomendations if they go along with their own personal hospital protocol.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Some hospitals do not allow parents in the nursery for security or health reasons, which on some level I get. I just wouldn't birth at a hospital like that. I want me and my husband to have full access to our baby at all times, no questions really asked.

Believe it or not there are extremes to the other side as well. My friend lives outside of Atlanta and there is no newborn nursery for healthy newborns. Everything is right there in your room and that is where your newborn stays. At times she said this was problematic, especially with a first time mom and her having had a csection. I know another mother who had had many children and didn't mind her baby going to the nursery because she was a lite sleeper and wanted the have a 2-3 hours of solid sleep uninterrupted, but that was not something they did at that hospital. There was a full rooming in policy. Let's just say she wasn't too happy about that.

I know that when I had Katie twice I went to the nursery for an extended length of time. Both times I was there there was this one baby that was in there. I was told that the mother didn't want her in the room with her at all unless she had visitors. The nurses literally had to "force" the mother to feed the baby and the mother would not change the baby's clothes or diaper at all. It was really sad. She just didn't want the baby in there with her at all. One of the baby nurses said that they were going to have psych consult with her before she left because she acted so distant with her baby. What made it even sadder is that the hospital I give birth at requires that the nurses wear gloves when they have any physical contact with the babies, even while just holding them. So that baby had little to no skin to skin contact.


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## babycatcher01 (Nov 28, 2005)

with the hospital that I have worked for, and during my schooling as a nurse, If a doctor find that a baby needs to be "observed"for some reason, that baby can become property of the hospital, that is after a cps call. There was a nurse that took a rectal temp a normal 99 degrees, and she put it under axu temp. They contacted cps they said they were indagering their child because they refused antibiotics for their babies"infection". They left AMA and cps was looking for them at home.

The advice I can give you is after the birth and the post exame of both you and baby, and things check out, sign you and you baby out of the hospital. Say if you have any concerns or problems they will be the first you contact, other then that say thank you for their time and be on you way. Never be harsh just stick up for yourself in a respectiful way and dont let baby out of your sight, you can refuse any and all testing, but when you sign the waver make sure you cross out the part that you are not endangering you or your child and as a result of not having the test. Just write in yourself that these test and procedures are not nessary at this time and you do not hold the hospital accountable if any problem arise as a result of not having the test. It will be hard and they will not see from you point of veiw, they are looking for something wrong. Just be strong.


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## MandyWelch (Dec 16, 2004)

I don't post very often in this forum but I am a nurse in an NICU at a family friendly hospital (if there is such a thing). Our protocol states that if a baby is born at less than 35wks (even 34 and 6/7 days) it has to be brought to the NICU for observation. Usually those babies do not just stay for observation and end up staying at least 3 days but usually a couple of weeks. If as a mom you think your baby is fine, of course you can refuse medical treatment for your child. If we feel that the child is in danger, we get a court order to treat the child. We've only done this on very specific occasions like when a family refuses blood products for religous reasons and the baby has a dangerously low hematocrit (blood count).

Something else to remember is that if you chose to leave the hospital with your child AMA, your insurance will not cover you or the baby for anything up until that point.

And no, nurses will not pry the child from your arms 99.9% of the time (I can't vouch for crazy nurses). We just simply make a note in the chart that mom refuses x or y.

Here's hoping your baby cooks a while longer.

Mandy


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## Maridith222 (Jun 29, 2005)

Be firm.. The hospital I had my son at was great and really helped us foster our breastfeeding relationship and told us how lucky our son was to not be circumsized. IF they pressure you, and there are no complications, you are always free to discharge AMA.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MandyWelch* 
Something else to remember is that if you chose to leave the hospital with your child AMA, your insurance will not cover you or the baby for anything up until that point.

This seems to be an urban legend. I can't imagine that it's legal.

-Angela


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## MandyWelch (Dec 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
This seems to be an urban legend. I can't imagine that it's legal.

-Angela

I have heard our docs tell parents this before, and our particular doctors don't lie. I will have to say that I have never checked into this myself, and it might just be some insurance carriers and not all.

Mandy


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
This seems to be an urban legend. I can't imagine that it's legal.

-Angela

It's not. We agree on something again. Don't Faint ok?

I was told this by hospital staff and it is completely untrue. I left AMA with Jack and called my insurance company the next day. They do, by law, have to cover your hospital visits even if you choose to leave against medical advice. I had an HMO at the time that really sucked to be honest with you. I now have BCBS, a very good plan, and I have confirmed with them during my pregnancy with Katie that they would pay for my hospital/surgical bills if I left AMA.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MandyWelch* 
I have heard our docs tell parents this before, and our particular doctors don't lie. I will have to say that I have never checked into this myself, and it might just be some insurance carriers and not all.

Mandy

I'd bet the farm that they are lying. I had a ped. and three nurses tell me at the hospital they would not pay. My sister is a RN and said that this is said to scare patients into complying. I was also told that if I left, my baby would die and they would call CPS on me. I called my attorney from the hospital who said that I could leave, but to get a second opinion the next morning and not to let CPS in the door if they came to my home but to hand them her card. CPS was not called. I did get my second opinion. And that baby they told me would die, is 4. My insurance also paid the hospital bill, all the tests, and even the meal I ate while I was there.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I don't live in the U.S., but I can't see how that is legal. It totally negates informed consent.


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## MandyWelch (Dec 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OnTheFence* 
I'd bet the farm that they are lying. I had a ped. and three nurses tell me at the hospital they would not pay. My sister is a RN and said that this is said to scare patients into complying. I was also told that if I left, my baby would die and they would call CPS on me. I called my attorney from the hospital who said that I could leave, but to get a second opinion the next morning and not to let CPS in the door if they came to my home but to hand them her card. CPS was not called. I did get my second opinion. And that baby they told me would die, is 4. My insurance also paid the hospital bill, all the tests, and even the meal I ate while I was there.

Wow, good to know. I'll have to talk to the docs about this tomorrow at work. We have only had this issue come up twice in the 10 years I've been there and our docs always just ended up discharging the baby. That's one thing I don't like about my job, we often don't get to hear outcomes after babies are discharged...unless they come visit or someone calls to tell us funeral arrangements









Mandy


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