# How would you deal with my 6YO in an UP manner?



## mama2cal&darby (Jun 13, 2008)

My nearly 6 YO son has starting acting out in a new way lately. I'll give you an example from last night:

Dinner was ready on the table and I called the kids to come and eat. DS1 came happily saying he knew what we were having by the smell. When he saw that it was spagetti and meatballs ( a meal he really likes) he burst into tears, obviously thinking it was going to be something else. I tried to validate his feelings by saying he must be disappointed that it was not what he thought it was and allowed him to continue crying.

Now in our family we all sit down together and say grace before starting our meal. DS2 was waiting at the table, so I scooped DS1 up (still crying) and brought him to the table so that we could say grace and DS2 could start his meal. Fine. Then DS1 kept shouting that he didn't want this meal and he wanted something else. I kept trying to find out what it was he had thought it was going to be, but I never got an answer- I assume some other type of pasta dish.

Now I won't make another meal just because someone doesn't want what I've made. I always make sure there is something on offer that everyone enjoys.

I kept trying to validate DS1's feelings and we never force anyone to eat anything, but I did let him know that I was not going to make something else.At this point he started to get destructive and went to the pantry and started throwing food on the kitchen floor. It was mostly cans, but a couple of glass jars were dropped (though not broken) I told him the glass could break, so be careful. He dumped a couple of open bags of pasta all over the floor. Once the pantry was pretty much emptied he said he wanted to eat his food now. I told him that he had to clean up the mess with me before he could eat. He balked at this for a bit and I moved his plate of food out of reach because he was going to ignore me and eat it anyway, but in not too long he calmed down and helped me clean up the mess and then happily ate his meal.

All-in-all I feel okay about how I reacted, though I know the only reason it was played out this way is because my DH is away on retreat. He would have gotten angry and probably stopped him before the throwing of the food started. I know he would also have said that it was not fair that I was unable to have my meal and my food was getting cold while I dealt with our DS.

I guess my question here is really for people who follow Unconditional Parenting (or possibly Naomi Aldort). My DS1 and I did get into a bit of a power struggle over him cleaning up before he ate, but it just didn't feel alright to me that he make a big mess and leave it for me to clean up. I remained calm the whole time, but I told him that if he chose to make a mess he was responsible for the clean up. If he had broken glass I guess I would have restrained him.

I should probably add that this type of acting out has happened a few times lately and I pretty much deal with it in the same way each time.

So... what would you do with these episodes?


----------



## mama.monika (Oct 17, 2010)

((hugs)) Its always so hard in the moment to focus on what to do. You did a great job.

I personally always have a selection of fruit,snacks etc so that if anyone does not want the meal they can have an alternative. I never make seperate meals for everyone but our house is now sugar and junk food free so the only alternatives are healthy.

I actually had a phone consultation with Naomi last week and she was fantastic!! hehe now I have to try and put it all into action.


----------



## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Um, I know nothing about UP (never read it and don't care to) but why did you let him throw all your food on the floor? I think if you had stopped that right away by removing him from the situation (which it sounds like he needed), he would have calmed down without all the power struggle and mess.

As for kids not wanting what I'm serving, we always have PB&J and my almost-6-year old can make it herself.


----------



## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

We had a similar incident last week, well...kinda.

My nearly five year old smelled me cooking something in the kitchen and when she asked if it was what she thought, I said yes and she got very excited. I didn't think to a. tell her it was going into a sauce or b. save any out for her. She was SO excited when dinner started and her little face just fell when she saw what we were actually having (something else she likes, but not what she thought). I could see the tears (she is easily rattled) so I said ok, look, help me write it on my list. We will have just that for dinner next week! She knows we only shop once a week and that I plan ahead and that seemed to satisfy her. She was still disappointed, but we moved on quickly. Also "writing something on the list" has helped her understand that we are out of something now and we will get some next time we shop - so it's shorted out a lot of impending melt downs.

I just can't really imagine her throwing things out of the pantry and my letting her do it. I know you're trying to parent from a particular perspective but I really don't think UP encourages parents to allow that kind of thing (someone here once posted a really wonderful summary of the principles of UP and I can see how there would be wide range of interpretations so I know we may not see it the same way). It's disrespectful, it's wasteful, and now you get to fight with him about cleaning it up. I understand letting him be disappointed and staying calm, but I can't see the value in letting him be destructive and I would imagine this was scary for your other child as well) and _then_ setting up a second power struggle.

I don't mean to be critical because goodness knows my child has done some things that have left me standing there thinking, Ok...now what?


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I am a big fan of Alfie Kohn and UP, and I would have stopped the pantry-messing as soon as it started. UP is about not punishing for doing things, but it isn't about allowing destruction to go on without stopping it. It just means you'd physically stop it from happening and then talk and work through the problem, instead of physically stopping it and then punishing.


----------



## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Maybe I don't understand UP as you're practicing it, OP, but what is the value in allowing a 6yo to destroy household property? What does this teach him about appropriate behavior as part of a family group?

I can understand validating feelings. But if my kid started throwing glass jars in the pantry, my response would not be "Glass can break, be careful."


----------



## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

The situation you describe, sounds like something that could easily have happened with my 4 1/2 years old DS too. I think it sounds like you handled it well, but I wouldn't have let my son throw all the food on the floor. You couldn't really be sure that none of the glass would break, and I don't let my son destroy things, pour food on the floor, etc. I would have picked him up and held him on my lap and talked about it.

If he had already thrown stuff on the floor before I had time to stop him, and then sat down to eat, I might have let him eat before he had to tidy it up (and I would have helped him with it), but that is primarily because he is only four, and very uncooperative when hungry. There would have been a much bigger chance of a unproblematic tidy-up after he had eaten. Since your son is older, it might not make such a big difference in his case, unless he was really very hungry?

I would say that I did understand that he was disappointed, but that it is important to learn to control one's temper, so that one doesn't throw and break things, which is not ok - and that he would have to tidy it up after dinner. Then I would try not to focus on it during the meal.









At least this is what I think I would do, but it is not easy to know before you are actually in the situation. I am definately at a loss often enough!


----------



## mama2cal&darby (Jun 13, 2008)

I wasn't sure whether to stop the throwing of the food or not.I chose not to remove him because getting physical with him tends to cause the situation to escalate. My hope was that if I let him fully express his upset through the throwing of the food he would have released it and been done. That is pretty much how it went. If anything was being destroyed, I would have stepped in.

I never know how to guide him to express his anger. When I have offered a pillow or mattress to hit it has always been rejected.

I totally understand allowing kids to make themselves something if they don't want the meal (PB&J is rejected by my kids) I don't, in part because they can't make themselves anything they would eat and I always make sure there is something that everyone eats on offer. I knew that my DS likes what I made and that he would would want it eventually, he just seemed to need to express his disappointment that it wasn't what he had expected, KWIM?


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I can see why you decided not to step in, but it sounds like not stepping in created a new power struggle - how the mess would get cleaned up. With my older dd (the spirited one) I've found that stopping problem #1 causes less upset than allowing the problem to continue and creating a problem #2. And yes it can cause upset and an older-child-style tantrum when you stop a behavior, but I'd personally rather muddle through that than set up a situation where I have to enforce something getting cleaned up. Around here, that would absolutely turn into a huge issue. "This mess you made when you were angry? Now it has to be cleaned up." She doesn't flip out over all cleaning, but because it was caused by an angry tantrum, it would bring those emotions back into the clean-up battle. All kids are different, but that would be huge with my dd and it is absolutely easier with her to just not allow it to get that far.

Have you read "How To Talk So Children Will Listen"? The author's last name is Faber. It has good suggestions for ways to verbally deal with some of these types of issues.


----------



## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

I wonder if he would benefit from knowing in advance what is for dinner? I know my dd really likes knowing so I tell her when we get in the car after school. My kids will tell me what they don't like about the planned meal, but by the time it's served, they're over it and will try a bite of everything on their plate at the very least.

To be fair, he destroyed the pantry. Unless your pantry is small, that would be PITA to put back together.


----------



## ErinYay (Aug 21, 2008)

I think it's wonderful that you encourage your kids to be themselves, but I might suggest rethinking encouraging them to act out on their anger. Being upset over the menu for dinner is, in the big picture, a small thing, and I'm not sure physically expressing anger over something like that is a good habit to get into.

Saying, "I'm angry that we're not having xzy!" and either moving on with the evening, or even sulking, is a socially acceptable way to express disappointment. Trashing the pantry is not.

Just as the brain can hardwire itself to feel anger, actions can become hardwired as well. I'm sure you don't want to be the mother of the 20-year-old who punches holes in walls because he's always been encouraged to do whatever he needs to do to express his anger just as much as you don't want to be the mother of a 20-year-old who never expresses emotion because it has been punished out of him.

For the specific incident, could you set up a staple food that your kids can fix themselves, like PB&J, cheese and crackers, etc, for the times that they're not willing to eat what's served? That way you don't have to prepare multiple meals and they can feel empowered over their dinner.


----------



## mama2cal&darby (Jun 13, 2008)

I think I may have made the mess sound like a bigger deal than it really was. It took the two of us less than 5 minutes to clean it up and he was totally fine when we were doing it. I probably could have let him do it after dinner, as someone suggested.

I am very interested to hear how others allow their kids to express their emotions. Obviously I would prefer my DS to just tell me he had hoped for something else for dinner, or sulk, but this kind physical acting out is new. He has anxiety problems and has been having a bit of a tough time adjusting to starting grade 1. He is actually doing really well (compared to a year or two ago), but that is where this new acting out is coming from. I told this story from dinner last night as an example only.It could easily have been a different situation entirely- food is not usually a problem area and I'm sure it won't happen again, so I'm not really looking for suggestions about how to handle dinner disappointment.

For the record I don't *encourage* my DS to become physical, I just didn't stop him because I thought that would escalate the situation, as it has befroe.


----------



## NellieKatz (Jun 19, 2009)

I see that many are chiming in with not letting him destroy the property by throwing things. I agree with that. I heard some helpful advice on a web site, I think it was called Hand-In-Hand Parenting? Anyway, they suggested (in a different situation, but I think this still applies), intervening, putting up your hand like "stop" or putting your hand between them and what they're destroying, in order to stop them, and then say "I can't let you do that, but I CAN listen to what you have to say" The assumption being that they learn the limits but they also know you are listening to their feelings. And of course after things are calmed down, you have him clean it up. And then later on maybe at bed time, I'd revisit it, like "Tonight it got pretty wild when you threw things in the kitchen; what do you think you could do next time that would be acceptable." or something like that.

On another note, he might be reacting to being forced to say grace when he was in the middle of powerful emotions and needing to be heard. Instead he was being made to take part in the ritual and then mentioning that you weren't going to make anything else (might have felt like a lecture. I am not saying that it WAS, but if he was already upset I can see how this intersection of events might have just escalated his emotions).

Makes me wonder what would have happened if you had just not scooped him up. That probably felt pretty demeaning at his age. You say you scooped him up "so you could say grace," but in truth, you could have said grace without him. You probably scooped him up because you wanted him to be there to complete the family ritual. But it's possible that he felt "saying grace is more important than me."

It's late and I have to get to bed, so I am not really writing very well. I hope this helps; don't feel I'm slamming you or anything....I have been in your shoes many times.


----------



## coffeegirl (Jan 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 
*I just can't really imagine her throwing things out of the pantry and my letting her do it.* I know you're trying to parent from a particular perspective but I really don't think UP encourages parents to allow that kind of thing (someone here once posted a really wonderful summary of the principles of UP and I can see how there would be wide range of interpretations so I know we may not see it the same way). *It's disrespectful, it's wasteful, and now you get to fight with him about cleaning it up. I understand letting him be disappointed and staying calm, but I can't see the value in letting him be destructive and I would imagine this was scary for your other child as well) and then setting up a second power struggle.*

This. Especially the bolded parts. And especially because we're not even dealing with a toddler here-- we're dealing with a 6 year old who more than likely knew better and was deliberately trying to push your buttons (ie: punish _you_) while releasing his own anger and disappointment in a destructive way. Allowing him to do this would be, IMO, enabling him to keep on dealing with negative emotions by being rude and destructive.

So in answer to your question, I can't tell you what I would have done in that situation but what I hope I would have done is just empathized/validated his emotions in a sincere way, offered something else to eat that he could possbly fix himself (PB&J?) and I would have nipped the "let's destroy the pantry" thing in the bud _immediately_.

Also, if it were me there would have been consequences to the destructive behavior if I'd been unable to keep it from happening.


----------



## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Does he cry often when things aren't going his way or is this something that just happened that day? I can't imagine a six year old bursting into tears about what was for dinner unless they are having an incredibly hideous day and they can no longer cope so if my dd started crying over what was for dinner I would scoop her up and cuddle her in the rocking chair and try to get to the bottom of the cause behind the tears. After that we may or may not eat the same dinner depending on how back together she seems to be feeling. I would not allow our household belongings to be thrown around though no matter what I was doing. Throwing heavy cans and glass isn't safe or respectful.

If his tears and explosive behavior tend to happen when he isn't getting his way with you but not with other people then I think you need to look at giving him his way earlier if you know it will come to that so he doesn't continue to have the idea that he has to get explosive to get his way, or redirecting him more firmly away from the tantrum and towards his options. I personally wouldn't want to eat near someone having an extreme fit and I would also not want to have to replace food from my pantry because my child decided to throw it on the ground. UP includes thoughtful boundaries, not an absence of boundaries and in this case I think a boundary was justified.


----------



## Needle in the Hay (Sep 16, 2006)

Some kids do this and I totally get what the OP means about escalating the situation.

OP, I think both you and your husband should read _The Explosive Child_ by Ross Greene. I also see nothing wrong with making your son something simple to eat _after_ dinner. It's not worth the power struggle to say you can eat what we're having or else get nothing. Mealtimes should be peaceful. Did he really need to be at the table so you could say grace and start eating? Could he not have had time to stay where he was and calm down? I find it doesn't help my son _at all_ to try to reflect back to him how he's feeling. It makes it worse. Maybe try comforting him without trying to articulate what's bothering him.

Eta: I can think of no age that was more "explosive" than 6. My son is 9 now and is much, much better at keeping a cool head. At age 6 he had all this frustration and didn't know what to do with it. I also found sites with lists of sensory activities helpful ( http://mommypoppins.com/ny-kids/99-s...-for-any-child ) and making sure he got enough protein helped too.


----------



## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:

I think I may have made the mess sound like a bigger deal than it really was. It took the two of us less than 5 minutes to clean it up
That's not really the point though. Throwing things in anger in the house is not really acceptable. (Unless it's like your own stuffed animals in your room or something.)


----------



## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

I think I would have said grace and started dinner with DS2 while DS1 calmed himself, and simply let him know we were starting and he was welcome to join us when he was ready. I think forcing him to the table kicked off the power struggle.

Have you tried PB&J as an alternative?















J/K I think I am getting better at curtailing the tantrums and explosions by not putting my schedule before his needs, but _also_ not waiting for him to be done (because he sort of seemed to delight in having that much control). I think it's important for my DS to learn that life goes on whether he is ready to or not, and he can choose to join in the fun or sulk, but we are not going to postpone the fun until he is ready. So when DS is disappointed that we are going to the park instead of a movie, he can sit and sulk in the car (windows open, in plain sight and ear shot of me) while dd and I play in the sun, and when he is ready he can join us. Or when he is disappointed in dinner he can go sulk in his room, or on my lap even, but we will continue with dinner with or without him. 9 times out of ten, he sees the world is moving on despite his disappointment and he sucks it up and joins in the fun, often with a smile.

I don't know if that's UP. I haven't read enough about it.


----------



## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiflywaif* 
That's not really the point though. Throwing things in anger in the house is not really acceptable. (Unless it's like your own stuffed animals in your room or something.)

I would agree here. I'd lose all my cool if a child of mine ever even went INTO my pantry univited let alone started destroying the orderliness or,







, my food...but I have food issues.









Destructive behavior is just not cool. OTOH I once witnessed my niece who was a pincher and scratcher when she got angry, scratch her own arm when she was told she unequivocally was NOT allowed to scratch her sister or her cousin in my presence or we would turn the car around and she would not be allowed to come to the movie with us. She even asked permission first. It was really disturbing. I suppose if you had a child like that you'd rather they take it out on a couple tin cans than their own bodies, eh?


----------



## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Like a previous poster mentioned, with my older dd (she's 14 now) I kept a selection of healthy alternatives available to her at all times.

So, in your situation, when the child first rejected the meal, I would have validated the feelings about being upset that dinner wasn't what he thought. Then offered to put his meal in the fridge for later if he wanted and suggested that he make himself something to eat from the options available. We don't say grace so I am not sure how that would fit in there based on your priorities with that. But hopefully that would defuse the situation in advance by allowing him to not eat what he didn't want, but keeping you from having to make something new.

In regards to getting destructive, I would not have allowed that. I do not want my child to learn that it's ok to be destructive just because he's upset. On thing I might have done insted was direct him to his room, where he can have his privace to experience his feelings how he wants. My mom used to say "go throw your fit where I don't have to listen to it." Sometimes when they realize they won't have an audience, they begin to use the more accceptable tools to express anger. Or, I might have simply told him that he could be upset all he wanted, but that it was not acceptable to be destructive, had him clean up whatever mess had started immediately, then left him to figure out how to deal with his emotions all on his own. Sometimes kids do need to figure that out on their own instead of using tools presented to them by their parents.


----------



## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Heres the thing OP, I have anger-managment problems that I see a therapist for. My mom let me express my anger in the same way you're letting your son. Now, I'm 27 and still struggle with not throwing things when I'm really angry. I'm just now learning coping techniques!

Working with him now to learn to express his anger through words instead of destruction, will go a long way for him!

As for my kids, when they want to show their displeasure, I tell them to use words. "Tell me why you are upset and we can try and come up with something to fix it." Even my 3-year-old with a speech delay can calm down and try to communicate with me.

Good luck.


----------



## Hokulele (Mar 2, 2005)

We're having a lot of the same issues in our house.


----------



## Ornery (May 21, 2007)

Honestly, I had a lot of problems helping my oldest ds express his anger and frustration. I grew up in a household where anger was not an acceptable emotion and I still have my own issues with it. I knew I wanted to allow my ds to feel his emotions but I tended to go too far with allowing him to express it even when it was detrimental to me or our home. I ended up seeking outside help, not because there was anything wrong with him but because I just didn't know appropriate ways of helping him through this very strong emotion.

I'm just relating this because I could have seen a situation like yours playing out like that in our home before we sought help. If I'm totally off base, please ignore me completely!

It was suggested by our therapists that punching bags/pillows, were not good ways of dealing with anger as it encouraged him to be physical with his expression of anger. For us, getting his needs met for physical activity first was key. I really had to schedule time for him to run around like crazy, etc., especially when he first started all day school because all of that sitting and being quiet was really hard for him. Once his need for physical activity was being met, it was easier for him to talk about his feelings when he was angry.

I also had to reiterate that it was not okay for him to act out his anger in a way that was detrimental to anybody or to someone else's property EVERY single time and implement natural consequences. We all make mistakes so I didn't harp on it or make him feel ashamed but after physical outbursts, we would talk about how to handle that situation in an appropriate way if it should happen again.

Of course, I'm not really in tune with UP so none of this might work for you, but I always try to offer insight if I've BTDT.


----------



## fuzzylogic (Nov 3, 2010)

Ahem. Not everyone can afford to make multiple meals or let kids throw food. Sorry you aren't hungry, next meal is....worked just fine in my house.


----------



## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuzzylogic* 
Ahem. Not everyone can afford to make multiple meals or let kids throw food. Sorry you aren't hungry, next meal is....worked just fine in my house.

Do you know what the OP means by "UP manner"? It's an abbreviation for Unconditional Parenting. You seem to be completely ignoring that part of the question in your reply.


----------



## fuzzylogic (Nov 3, 2010)

But here's the thing: It isn't being mean, if you have no alternative, to gently but firmly tell the child: This is what is for dinner. I'm very sorry you aren't hungry. Next meal is breakfast.

I'm not advocating force-feeding the kid, telling it to eat the green beans or else, or serving the same food 4 meals in a row until the kid gives in and eats---none of which are functional, to my mind. But from 17-1800, in my house, was dinner time. You could eat or not. It was completely up to the kid....even including eating only potatoes, if that was what they wanted. But dessert was a result of being hungry enough to eat your dinner---expressed as "so sorry you weren't hungry enough to eat, I don't have more food to waste." and after dinner was over, it was done. No munchies until breakfast....

No screaming, no arguing, and no physical discipline....the kids had the choice to eat or not, and I wasn't sitting around fighting about it.

Anyone throwing something in the house would have been stopped. We literally did not have food to waste....and I'm willing to bet that there are other moms in this predicament here.


----------



## LessTraveledBy (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee*
I am a big fan of Alfie Kohn and UP, and I would have stopped the pantry-messing as soon as it started. UP is about not punishing for doing things, but it isn't about allowing destruction to go on without stopping it. It just means you'd physically stop it from happening and then talk and work through the problem, instead of physically stopping it and then punishing.

Yeah... No way would I let my 5 y.o. throw food. Nice job staying calm throughout the whole thing, though!


----------



## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuzzylogic* 
But here's the thing: It isn't being mean, if you have no alternative, to gently but firmly tell the child: This is what is for dinner. I'm very sorry you aren't hungry. Next meal is breakfast.

I'm not advocating force-feeding the kid, telling it to eat the green beans or else, or serving the same food 4 meals in a row until the kid gives in and eats---none of which are functional, to my mind. But from 17-1800, in my house, was dinner time. You could eat or not. It was completely up to the kid....even including eating only potatoes, if that was what they wanted. But dessert was a result of being hungry enough to eat your dinner---expressed as "so sorry you weren't hungry enough to eat, I don't have more food to waste." and after dinner was over, it was done. No munchies until breakfast....

No screaming, no arguing, and no physical discipline....the kids had the choice to eat or not, and I wasn't sitting around fighting about it.

Anyone throwing something in the house would have been stopped. We literally did not have food to waste....and I'm willing to bet that there are other moms in this predicament here.

Yeah, even if we have the excess food to waste we don't out of principle. It's just really really against my ethical code. But that being said "dinner" can be served any time from 4pm to 7pm (bedtime is 7:30) and must include a protein, a carb and a veggie, and then ds can have a dessert (which is conditional on having eaten those three elements.) I usually make a dinner for the family that can be saved and eaten later or the next day if need be as a lunch or a snack or a dinner another night. I also have optional meals that can be easily prepared by a 4+ year old (WW NPB&J with veggie sticks, or cold left over chicken with an apple and a slice of bread...that sort of thing), should they not like what is being served and I don't see that as wasting food since it is food meant specifically for quick and easy lunches or snacks. It's not my labor, it's sitting there anyway, and really it's no big deal. And we live on a very tight budget (One teacher's salary for a family of four and yes we live in Colombia, but I guarantee in terms of grocery bills, it's not much cheaper here in Bogota than it is in a small town in the states especially if you're looking for whole foods.) planning meals, and stretching food as much as we can.

BUT, that's not really the issue here. The issue is how do you stop a child in a rage in a way that is safe, loving and acceptable to the UP principles.

I think the main thing to take away from this is that the conflict could have been avoided if the OP's son's freedom to express his initial feelings of disappointment had been more respected than the OP's need for family prayer in order for her DS2 to start eating.

The question is, which is more important: Our need for family rituals or our need to respect our children's space to explore their feelings? I think sometimes we as parents get so caught up in the ritual ourselves, rituals we work SO hard to instill in our kids, and we do _so_ much to preserve, we actually get really irrational about the importance of them (I am SOOOOOO guilty of this, BTW!







) and we forget that life _can_ go on without the rituals. We CAN say grace without everyone present (especially if not everyone is eating). We make these choices as parents. It seems to _me_, The OP felt family grace was more important that a few smashed tins and spilled food at the time...maybe she still does? It is not a choice I would make for my family because food is expensive and I don't like my pasta with a side of floor lint.

If, as the OP implied, this were a common reaction(raging out of control destructive tantrums in response to seemingly ordinary or ritualistic events in the family) I would consider analysing what the _initial_ conflicts are, and nipping it in the bud there.


----------



## mama2cal&darby (Jun 13, 2008)

Hi, OP here. Thanks for all your responses. Especially those who addressed my intial question. I was very interested in those who spoke of how they dealt with their kids rages and how they felt they were affected by the way their parents dealt with their's.

There have been a couple of rages since then and I have stopped my son being destructive, though in each case, me phyically intervening escalated his anger and upset. I don't feel at all sure about the best way of dealing with it. I may start another thread specifically about how parents deal with their children's rage.

"I think the main thing to take away from this is that the conflict could have been avoided if the OP's son's freedom to express his initial feelings of disappointment had been more respected than the OP's need for family prayer in order for her DS2 to start eating.

The question is, which is more important: Our need for family rituals or our need to respect our children's space to explore their feelings? I think sometimes we as parents get so caught up in the ritual ourselves, rituals we work SO hard to instill in our kids, and we do _so_ much to preserve, we actually get really irrational about the importance of them (I am SOOOOOO guilty of this, BTW!







) and we forget that life _can_ go on without the rituals. We CAN say grace without everyone present (especially if not everyone is eating). We make these choices as parents. It seems to _me_, The OP felt family grace was more important that a few smashed tins and spilled food at the time...maybe she still does? It is not a choice I would make for my family because food is expensive and I don't like my pasta with a side of floor lint. "

Hakeber:
I guess my intial post was unclear about this, but my DS's tantrum was absolutely NOT caused by us saying grace. In no way was I putting my *rituals* before my son being able to express himself. DS1 was in my arms- not ignored, quieted,or forced, but lovingly held. I could easily have left this small detail out of the post because it had nothing to do with what ensued.

"If, as the OP implied, this were a common reaction(raging out of control destructive tantrums in response to seemingly ordinary or ritualistic events in the family) I would consider analysing what the _initial_ conflicts are, and nipping it in the bud there.







[/QUOTE]"

This was not a common response to ordinary events. My DS suffers from anxiety. He has been highly sensitive and anxious his whole life. Starting grade 1 has been difficult for him and he has been acting out at home. The choice of dinner, the grace etc., had nothing to do with the root cause.


----------



## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Do you think it's possible that the different expectations at home and school have anything to do with his acting out?

I'm assuming that at school he is expected to behave in a socially acceptable fashion, follow reasonable rules, not express anger destructively etc, and that these expectations are made very clear. This would have to be a big change for a child who is used to his feelings being "validated" no matter how he chooses to express them. I can see how that would be confusing for a kid!


----------



## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2cal&darby* 
DS1 came happily saying he knew what we were having by the smell. When he saw that it was spagetti and meatballs ( a meal he really likes) he burst into tears, obviously thinking it was going to be something else.

This and the fact you say he's been feeling stressed about school makes it seem like maybe the disappointment at dinner was just the last straw. Maybe the explosion was really over things that happened during the rest of the day. It's hard having anxiety issues and even harder at age 6. Have you taught him any techniques for calming down when he's upset? You would have to teach him and practice the techniques when he's calm, but little kids can use calming activities. I've just taught my DD to use deep breathing. Basically you breath out bad emotions slowly, anger or sadness, and breath in good ones slowly, usually love people feel for us, until you calm down. My DD is almost 5 and has used it a few times when she gets angry or upset. She's been behaving more dramatic and emotionally intense reactions lately over little stuff. I thought being able to calm herself some could be helpful.


----------



## mama2cal&darby (Jun 13, 2008)

Zinemama,I hear what you're saying about different expectations at home and at school. but I don't think that is anything. Like I said, the physical acting out is new, so it's not as if he has been used to acting out physically, and he has only ever acted out at home (usually with me). At school or other situations which bring out his anxiety he is prone to be withdrawn and very quiet, then it all comes out with me because he has been holding it together all day. My understanding is that this is common with these kids.

Ssh,he has seen a psychologist who gave us calming techniques (yes, deep breathing etc.) which are helpful when he is in an anxiety producing situation, but I have not tried to get him to use them when he is angry. I should give that a try- thanks!


----------



## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

It's been a while since I've read UP but it was my all time favorite parenting book. It felt like "me" the whole time I read the book.

I'm not sure if I'm maybe off on something about the book because it's been so long but is AK super into validating feelings in the way you're describing? The reason I ask is because my DC responds best to me having reactions to her feelings that are appropriate (a judgement call) to the situation. I'd be surprised if UP really called for a parent to validate upset feelings to the extent of letting a child tear apart the pantry.

The main reason I posted on this thread is because I wrote to AK once and he wrote back to me in a half hour!! Perhaps you could ask him. Good luck!! And I second and third staying so calm, mama...and I'll admit I would have a hard time figuring out how to stop something like that once it got started.

Oh, that reminds me that I'd be doing some pretty major prevention and would maybe even tell DC in the AM what's for dinner. I know a lot of DC's disappointment can be alleviated by giving her lots of warning. I'm pregnant right now and can totally relate to your son being pissed about not having spaghetti. ;-)


----------



## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:

My hope was that if I let him fully express his upset through the throwing of the food he would have released it and been done.
Okay. I'm not into UP because I think it implies that somehow, conditions on being in the room with me somehow translates into conditions on whether I love you or not, and I don't like that. At least, when I read Kohn, it seems to. There are a lot more reasonable UP interpretations here on MDC that I like to consider when responding to a problem.

That said, I don't get what you wrote above.

I don't think destruction of property is a form of "expression". It's vandalism, which is a form of violence, and never acceptable. My child is acceptable no matter what, but vandalism and violence is stopped in its tracks.

So while I appreciate what you're saying--that physically removing him from the situation at that point would escalate it--I do NOT think that validating vandalism as a form of expression is going to teach love in any way, shape, or form.

I'm not sure how, if you do not ever restrict him from access to any part of the house, you could prevent that kind of thing once he gets going on a roll, but in my opinion, it needs to be done.

I guess for me, it would end up being the same as if he went at a sibling. Obviously, you'd stop him in that case, right? Arms around him, do what you had to do to protect your other kids because that was just crossing a line that couldn't be crossed.

For me, throwing glass or even "carelessly shoving in such a way as to result in its falling on the floor" crosses that line, and would be dealt with in the same way. One bag of spaghetti shoved off the counter on to the floor? Okay. I can see how the UP parent would wait and talk about it.

Jars and cans and food?

No.

Quote:

The question is, which is more important: Our need for family rituals or our need to respect our children's space to explore their feelings?
I don't think throwing things is an okay way for any human to explore feelings. Even at two, when a child throws a toy in anger, I take it away, save soft lovies. I really think that is a destructive, violent thing to do and a very, very bad habit that could lead to problems. I would put it up there with cutting and hurting others, because it could.

And again, not saying, "therefore, punish". I just think that at some point you do have the right to ask a child to vent their frustration in a different way, or to stay away from people so they can remain safe. And this is past that point.


----------



## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I read through a bit of AK just to be sure I wasn't forgetting some major thing or that maybe I changed over the years and no longer saw eye to eye with him -- nope still LOVE the man!

Check out pages 125-140 or or so. Starting with 7. Be Authentic

Great stuff:

http://books.google.com/books?id=WiV...page&q&f=false

Also 150-151 is good for this particular issue.


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2010)

6's go through another oppositional phase, it's normal development & part of growing up. However, I think the kiddo is begging for some limits to be set for him so that he can feel more secure. Where you set them is up to you of course, but my line would have been drawn much earlier than yours. Sure, everyone experiences anger, but there are right & wrong ways of expressing it. Throwing the contents of the kitchen pantry onto the floor during the entire family's dinner time is violent and disrespectful behavior. Of course you don't need to sanction the feelings, he's entitle to them, but he's learning to discharge those feelings via tyrannical behavior.


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2010)

mama2cal&darby;15959860
For the record I don't *encourage* my DS to become physical said:


> I've totally been there. However, I realize that my own behavior is one of avoidance that in the short-term may help me deal w/ the outburst, but in the long run teaches a pretty awful lesson to my kid. We can't live in fear of our kids' escalations, and good parenting requires a better approach. Thanks for reminding me of this.


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *[email protected]* 
I've totally been there. However, I realize that my own behavior is one of avoidance that in the short-term may help me deal w/ the outburst, but in the long run teaches a pretty awful lesson to my kid. We can't live in fear of our kids' escalations, and good parenting requires a better approach. Thanks for reminding me of this.

Yes this was kind of what I was thinking, although I'm not that knowledgeable about UP.

I do know with my son though - acknowledging his feelings is important, but then it's really important to help him understand that his feelings are not paramount; that he can have strong feelings and still be okay, and still temper his behaviour.

When we treat his anger or frustration as if it were so huge, it actually makes it worse.

And sometimes that means that we do have a _longer_ freak-out or a _louder_ one - that one time. But over the long run it helps for him to understand that the ground rules in the family remain the same whether he is content or furious.


----------



## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
When we treat his anger or frustration as if it were so huge, it actually makes it worse.

Yes, I tend to agree with this. This is also somewhat described on page 151 in the link I posted above.

AK suggests that when a parent tires of a dialog they can respectfully stop responding.

Where I would differ is that we have always been quite flexible with rules. If there are hard and fast ones, they normally are ones that DC has a say in helping to shape.

And, as [email protected] said, there is another element in AK that I was reminded about (and why I love him so much) is because he discusses the respect issue of "distracting" a child from their problems.


----------



## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
I don't think throwing things is an okay way for any human to explore feelings. Even at two, when a child throws a toy in anger, I take it away, save soft lovies. I really think that is a destructive, violent thing to do and a very, very bad habit that could lead to problems. I would put it up there with cutting and hurting others, because it could.

And again, not saying, "therefore, punish". I just think that at some point you do have the right to ask a child to vent their frustration in a different way, or to stay away from people so they can remain safe. And this is past that point.

ITA, my point was that if he hadn't been "scooped up" and forceded to sit at the table to join in the family pre-meal prayer in the middle of his state of funk and disappointment, if he had been allowed to fully "let it out" in the first place in a safe environment on the couch away from everyone, it probably wouldn't have _escalated_ to throwing things anyway.

That's just my read on what I saw in the OP. All the work she had put into VALIDATING his feelings and guiding him to safe place to feel his feelings, was undone in that one action, IMHO. No wonder it escalated. If _escalation_ is what you want to avoid don't undermine your hard work by then saying "Okay, we're moving on and you MUST join us." I think it's very important to say "we're moving on." but by insisting they do to, just belittles the big feelings they are having. IME with kids from 5-18 90% of any negativ emotion is bolstered by the suspicion that no one gets how awful and big and scary and lonely this feeling is. So IMO, when he was forced to suspress the feeling for grace it was like pouring gasoline on a pile of smouldering ashes.

So this was just one example of acting out violently. Maybe another example would help our brains to problem solve what causes the esacalation from "I can't believe it's not Spaghetti!" "I am so full of rage I want to break something.". If it's not got anything to do with our own actions I would ask myself, why does it escalate so quickly and what can I do from the first moment LONG _LONG_ before he gets to the destructive phase of the anger to intervene and redirect to a healthy mode of expression.


----------



## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:

my point was that if he hadn't been "scooped up" and forceded to sit at the table to join in the family pre-meal prayer in the middle of his state of funk and disappointment, if he had been allowed to fully "let it out" in the first place in a safe environment on the couch away from everyone, it probably wouldn't have escalated to throwing things anyway.
I agree with you on this. I wasn't replying to you--I was answering the OP directly.

The way you put it, Rebekah, I wonder if the OP's composure might have added to his frustration. I know having my feelings acknowledged in a calm way does not make me feel empathized with, my children, either. It's really irritating to have someone name your feelings and explain what you're thinking, as if you didn't know, LOL! But do nothing about it! Perhaps he is trying to get them to truly understand his emotions, by taking it as far as possible, so that they will REACT.

Maybe in addition to that--"Okay, you are really upset, and we can solve this problem together. Let's pray first and then find a solution."

Maybe being more solution-oriented, and then helping him deal-- e.g. can he put cheese on the spaghetti? Can he deal if you make a plan to have his favorite dish?

In other words, less focus on his feelings as independent of what is happening, and more focus on a solution. Even if you can't make other food (and I don't, either, it will lead to endless, and ultimately fruitless, negotiation and I myself would never end up eating), you can always find a solution, right?


----------



## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

@EdnaMarie, That is a _good_ point!


----------



## mama2cal&darby (Jun 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 
ITA, my point was that if he hadn't been "scooped up" and forceded to sit at the table to join in the family pre-meal prayer in the middle of his state of funk and disappointment, if he had been allowed to fully "let it out" in the first place in a safe environment on the couch away from everyone, it probably wouldn't have _escalated_ to throwing things anyway.

That's just my read on what I saw in the OP. All the work she had put into VALIDATING his feelings and guiding him to safe place to feel his feelings, was undone in that one action, IMHO. No wonder it escalated. If _escalation_ is what you want to avoid don't undermine your hard work by then saying "Okay, we're moving on and you MUST join us." I think it's very important to say "we're moving on." but by insisting they do to, just belittles the big feelings they are having. IME with kids from 5-18 90% of any negativ emotion is bolstered by the suspicion that no one gets how awful and big and scary and lonely this feeling is. So IMO, when he was forced to suspress the feeling for grace it was like pouring gasoline on a pile of smouldering ashes.

So this was just one example of acting out violently. Maybe another example would help our brains to problem solve what causes the esacalation from "I can't believe it's not Spaghetti!" "I am so full of rage I want to break something.". If it's not got anything to do with our own actions I would ask myself, why does it escalate so quickly and what can I do from the first moment LONG _LONG_ before he gets to the destructive phase of the anger to intervene and redirect to a healthy mode of expression.

This is the OP again. I don't know if you read my last post, but bringing him to the table while we said grace DID NOT ESCALATE ANYTHING. He wasn't *forced* he wasn't being negated, he was lovingly held on my lap -and was fine with it. You may continue to wish to believe that this action undid all my validating, but I can tell you it did not. It was a small moment I obviously should have omitted in my OP, as it was irrelevant.


----------



## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2cal&darby* 
This is the OP again. I don't know if you read my last post, but bringing him to the table while we said grace DID NOT ESCALATE ANYTHING. He wasn't *forced* he wasn't being negated, he was lovingly held on my lap -and was fine with it. You may continue to wish to believe that this action undid all my validating, but I can tell you it did not. It was a small moment I obviously should have omitted in my OP, as it was irrelevant.


Oh, okay then. Hope you find a solution.


----------



## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Sorry, it is hard to keep in mind all the details of very detailed incidents in these posts in which emotions are so important.

I don't think validation can be "un-did", fwiw... I just agreed that if brought to the table in a state, it would make it worse.

OP, does he usually respond well when you remain calm and use the same validation techniques, or do you think somehow this is not reaching him?


----------



## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mama2cal&darby*
> This is the OP again. I don't know if you read my last post, but bringing him to the table while we said grace DID NOT ESCALATE ANYTHING. He wasn't *forced* he wasn't being negated, he was lovingly held on my lap -and was fine with it. You may continue to wish to believe that this action undid all my validating, but I can tell you it did not. It was a small moment I obviously should have omitted in my OP, as it was irrelevant.


 I have a kid kind of like this, so I'll just put in here that while he might have been OK/not escalated when you brought him to the table and sat on your lap, it might have been the trigger to the freak out a few seconds later when he found out he wasn't getting anything else. I found out the hard way if I try to physically move my kiddo anywhere while he's upset he kind of goes into shut down mode for a minute or so where it *seems* like he's calmed down, but then the very next thing that happens makes him lose it even more - as opposed to letting him do his thing to completion wherever he happens to be (so long as it's safe), even if the rest of us are moving on to something else, and then he really calms down on his own and can work through whatever it is verbally. If I try to touch him in any way, or intervene in any way when he's in the first stage of a meltdown it makes it 10 times worse and last twice as long as if I just leave him be and let him compose himself.

So, I'm not dogpiling on you, just agreeing that not bringing him to the table in that state of upset might have prevented the escalation from happening, even though you're saying it happened later and he seemed fine on your lap. My own kid goes into this catatonic-type state and gets PISSED if I try to hug him through a tantrum or love on him when he's upset. It's like invalidating his feelings when he's pissed off to say, "I love you anyway" - that's how he sees it - "I'm pissed off and you're going to love me through it? How insulting - be pissed off with me instead!". I have ot let him be, and then tackle the issue when he's resolved it on his own. Otherwise he's on a hair trigger the rest of the day/night and the littlest thing will set him off again.

I also have to agree that the meltdown from finding out about dinner was not at all about dinner but about whatever stress he had at school the past couple days. I can always tell when my kiddo is stressed out because he cries at something relatively benign/normal in the evening....like, on Sunday he cried when I left for my choir practice, and then Monday morning he was talking to me about being stressed out about something at school. For us, when it's a normal/routine thing that makes him break down, there's ALWAYS somethig deeper going on that we have to wait for him to be ready himself to address. We've learned the hard way that trying to press him to work through anything on our timetable instead of his makes is worse....what we do is put limits on his behaviors so that everyone and everything is safe (physically and emotionally).


----------



## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
The way you put it, Rebekah, I wonder if the OP's composure might have added to his frustration. I know having my feelings acknowledged in a calm way does not make me feel empathized with, my children, either. It's really irritating to have someone name your feelings and explain what you're thinking, as if you didn't know, LOL! But do nothing about it! Perhaps he is trying to get them to truly understand his emotions, by taking it as far as possible, so that they will REACT.
Thank you SO much for this.


----------



## MrsBone (Apr 20, 2004)

Not sure what UP is, but I'd probably tell my kiddo to go to his room to let out his frustration. When he's cooled down to come back out. I'd even let the mess go until after dinner. However, I probably wouldn't let him have messed up the pantry in the first place. I'm big on time outs though. Not sure if that's UP.


----------



## BeanyMama (Jul 25, 2006)

I'm not sure how UP it is, but my reaction probably would have been to repeat what he's saying; i.e "You thought it was something else for sure, and then you came in here and it's different. That was probably annoying." as a way of making him feel heard and validated. My boys respond well to verbal expression and validation, but they're both verbal and audio-minded. They often don't want me to think of a solution or "soothe" them, they just want me to know how upset they are and all I need to do is listen and repeat and understand. It's easy for me to over-think sometimes and mind-scramble for "solutions".

It's okay to feel mad but I think setting guidelines on expressing it should be clear for a six year old; throwing food would be stopped, escalation or not.

I'm with you on the separate meal front! Dinner is dinner here, as well. It sounds like this wasn't quite the real issue though, as you mentioned it's a meal he normally likes.


----------



## mama2cal&darby (Jun 13, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrsBone*
> 
> Not sure what UP is, but I'd probably tell my kiddo to go to his room to let out his frustration. When he's cooled down to come back out. I'd even let the mess go until after dinner. However, I probably wouldn't let him have messed up the pantry in the first place. I'm big on time outs though. Not sure if that's UP.


Unconditional Parenting,FWIW, is opposed to time outs and any kind of punishment.


----------



## mama2cal&darby (Jun 13, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie*
> 
> Sorry, it is hard to keep in mind all the details of very detailed incidents in these posts in which emotions are so important.
> 
> ...


I hear what you're saying about remaining calm. It's a tough one. My son (like someone else recently said), doesn't want me to try and find solutions- and there wasn't a solution in this case, as he wasn't really upset about the meal. I certainly try not to be patronizingly calm,KWIM? There is a balance, though, I think, between that and adding my own drama, or, of course, my own anger with the situation. I think there is often a tight-rope to be walked in these situations.
I think the balance was kept pretty well in this particular incident. ( I'm not referring to the thrown cans, merely my emotional state.)


----------



## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ErinYay*
> 
> I think it's wonderful that you encourage your kids to be themselves, but I might suggest rethinking encouraging them to act out on their anger. Being upset over the menu for dinner is, in the big picture, a small thing, and I'm not sure physically expressing anger over something like that is a good habit to get into.
> 
> ...


I feel the exact same way about this. My DD does the same type of things. She is 7 and cant handle disappointment.

As much as I despise laying my hands on her, when she goes to start wrecking something I hold her down. If she trashes something or doesn't, she gets past the rage in about 15-20 min. If I let her express her anger physically, when would it ever end? The messes would just end up bigger, the behavior more destructive.

My DH's mother let him do those things as a child. She just thought it was anger and that's how he dealt with it. By the time he was a teenager he punched holes through every wall in the house. She just went around hanging pictures everywhere to cover them and yelled at him.

A small child throwing a few cans can turn into a giant man who is capable of MUCH worse.

I'm not criticizing at ALL. I have a DD who doesn't have the impulse control yet to deal with disappointment. A lot of days are struggles. She seems to have inherited DH's personality, but that behavior cant fly here. I'm working as hard and gently as I can to try to help her deal with this. I'm hoping her brain wiring is going to work this glitch out that she seems to be stuck in.

DH still has the same wiring, but has trained himself not to react. It's hard for him because he has to internalize it for lack of a better way. I'm hoping I can help DD as a child deal with this temperament, so that when she is older it will be easier.


----------



## mama2cal&darby (Jun 13, 2008)

Yes, this is a very interesting point and makes sense.


----------



## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

I know what you mean about the tightrope. It's so hard.

IMO... either this is acceptable or it's not. If it's not, you really have got to make sure, physically, that he doesn't do it. Even the unconditional parent would have the right to ask the child to leave the area if it's dangerous to person or property (or both). There are some boundaries, it's all a matter of where you set them.

If it's okay with you, I don't see what the problem is. He expressed his anger in that way and that's okay with your family.

To my mind, that is where it's unclear in your post. I personally see that as a danger, throwing things in anger. The throws will get faster and more accurate, the things more heavy, and the emotions more intense. I think it is just a very, very bad idea to let that happen, not to intervene. If your daughter was in a marriage with a man who threw things, surely you'd tell her to get out right away? That staying with that is not love, it's submission to abuse? Even if it didn't hit her this time?

And yet... though of course your son is quite young and such behavior is understandable (if not, to my mind, excusable), you are trying to send him the message that it IS okay, and that you will put up with it because you love him. You seem to be of two minds. You want to discourage him from hurting others, but are wondering how to do that unconditionally? And I think that ultimately, physical danger to you has to be where you accept the child but not the action and ask them to leave the room until they can respect other people's persons. And if he doesn't go, make him. No reason to get upset, but by all means, save your stuff and put him in his room.

For the future he needs tools to let his anger out. If he's a "throw things" type, a punching bag, perhaps?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mama2cal&darby*
> 
> I hear what you're saying about remaining calm. It's a tough one. My son (like someone else recently said), doesn't want me to try and find solutions- and there wasn't a solution in this case, as he wasn't really upset about the meal. I certainly try not to be patronizingly calm,KWIM? There is a balance, though, I think, between that and adding my own drama, or, of course, my own anger with the situation. I think there is often a tight-rope to be walked in these situations.
> I think the balance was kept pretty well in this particular incident. ( I'm not referring to the thrown cans, merely my emotional state.)


----------



## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Cross-posted. What about chopping wood? Would you trust him with a somewhat dull axe? If he wants to destroy something... I dunno. Perhaps say he can destroy anything in his own room but yours is off limits? Paint pictures of what he'd LIKE to destroy? Write poems about what he'd LIKE to destroy? I know that for me, personally, I can be very destructive when angry and my mom did tell me it was "what I did with it" but she only gave me the alternative of punching a pillow, which I found to be very unsatisfying, LOL. My feeling was... I want to hurt something and the pillow doesn't give a rat's ass.


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

A dull axe is more dangerous because it tends to bounce off stuff into other stuff. But it wouldn't be my first choice for a 6 year old - maybe pulverizing bricks or something.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie*
> 
> Cross-posted. What about chopping wood? Would you trust him with a somewhat dull axe? If he wants to destroy something... I dunno. Perhaps say he can destroy anything in his own room but yours is off limits? Paint pictures of what he'd LIKE to destroy? Write poems about what he'd LIKE to destroy? I know that for me, personally, I can be very destructive when angry and my mom did tell me it was "what I did with it" but she only gave me the alternative of punching a pillow, which I found to be very unsatisfying, LOL. My feeling was... I want to hurt something and the pillow doesn't give a rat's ass.


----------



## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

As someone up thread said, I think he sounds like a guy who could use a heads up about what's for supper. I ALWAYS tell my kids in advance. I have a child who does not transition well and she needs to know what's going to happen as much as she can. She does not do well with surprises at all, especially when she was younger. Wrapped presents for example were a touchy point for quite awhile.

Anyway, I've read a lot of Alfie and I don't think he would advocate tearing up the pantry, but I think he would advocate being aware of your triggers and your child's triggers and putting them out there in the open (you don't like surprises too much, we're having spaghetti and meatballs).

If my child was trying to tear stuff up like that I might redirect and give her some newspaper or something like that. For my kids, a big hug and some time on my lap would help defuse the situation, but for another kid that could make it worse.

hth


----------



## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Wow! So many posts on this thread and so interesting! What struck me most was the validating. My youngest (4 1/2 ds) gets beyond annoyed when I label his feelings. What works well for him is a totally different approach.

But I also thought that perhaps brainstorming with him when things are calm and there is no conflict about ways to manage himself when he's feeling those intense feelings. My youngest really benefits from sitting in our living room and looking through books alone. It just settles him right down and I've told him that only he knows when he's ready to rejoin the family. It isn't a time out in the traditional sense, but it's time to take for himself to regroup and let it pass over him. I definitely think that sitting in the anger and acting out aggressively doesn't help.

Some ideas when angry might be drawing, reading, going into a room and yelling, running in the backyard, kicking a ball, pounding on playdough, etc. I think that focusing on ways for him to manage those big feelings might be helpful to him. And I would approach it from the perspective of being curious and looking to him for ideas that he think might work for him. I'd also be interested in hearing how he manages those big feelings at school. Maybe he already has some great strategies that might be useful at home.


----------



## mandalamama (Sep 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Needle in the Hay*
> Eta: I can think of no age that was more "explosive" than 6. My son is 9 now and is much, much better at keeping a cool head. At age 6 he had all this frustration and didn't know what to do with it. I also found sites with lists of sensory activities helpful ( http://mommypoppins.com/ny-kids/99-s...-for-any-child ) and making sure he got enough protein helped too.


grrreat article, thanks for sharing it! my 6-yr-old can get pretty explosive regarding cleaning of any kind, it really seems to help to guide her through some physical exercises so she can settle herself and not destroy the house in the process.


----------

