# Healing the gut tribe : August



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Hi







,
If you are new to this tribe please check out our original thread :

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...2&page=1&pp=20

We are mamas who are on a gut healing path for ourselves or our little ones through diet and natural supplements. The diet most of us are using is the SCD diet (again refer to the above link for explanation) or the Maker's Diet. Some are using the SCD with adaptations from the Maker's Diet, but still SCD legal. We're learning as we go and offer support and our experiences. To view some of our children's stories visit :

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=260393

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=313758

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=autism&

Healing the gut is SLOW, but it can be achieved.

I hope some of you may find this thread helpful







.

Peace,


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

I'm just replying to subscribe. We aren't on the SCD, but we are going to do the maker's diet ... basically it just confirms what I've been learning anyways about how important it is to heal the gut in order to get the rest of your health in order. So, I am interested to read of all of your journeys.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

I actually agree with the Maker's diet more than the SCD, but MD is not toddler friendly. The SCD is better for dd, but I have incorp. certain things from the MD into her diet and am seeing the benefits. I added 50:50 fresh carrot juice and switched her cheese from organic to raw goat milk organic. I also changedher 24 hour yoghurt to goat milk yoghurt and am trying to find a place near me to buy raw goat milk to make the yoghurt from that. I just ordered the 30 hour raw organic goat milk yoghurt from www.whiteegretfarm.com and might just stick with that.

Keep us informed on your progress







!

Peace,


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Is there a big taste difference between goat milk yogurt/kefir and cow milk yogurt/kefir? I have never had goat milk, but noticed the MD calls for only goat milk yogurt the first two weeks and was wondering about that. The only goat milk that I think I can get ahold of is ultra pasteurized and I've only seen it in quarts at Wild Oats - I would go through about 6-8 quarts in one week. As it is I make our yogurt with organic cow's milk and then mix it in smoothies with raw cows milk. I want to stick as closely as we can to the MD, not only to heal anything going on with us that we don't even know about (I'm sure we (dh & I) are over ran with candida), but also so we can accurately tell others about it too. So far the only issue I can see will be the goat milk vs. the cows milk for the first two weeks.

I'm also hoping to make it as kid friendly as I can for my boys ... a lot of what is allowed the first two weeks they already like, but they will have to do without somethings and then adapt to others (for instance, no breads or tortillas at all, and after the first few weeks, learning to like sprouted bread and whole wheat sourdough). It'll be easier for my younger son than my older son ... thankfully I'm pretty sure they are both rather healthy (don't get sick and both bf), so hopefully by flubbing a little for them, they will still reap the health benefits in the long run without having to notice too big of a difference in their daily eating. (What am I thinking ... they are kids ... they barely eat as it is!!! :LOL)


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

My little wonders - What a good mama you are to do all this for your kiddos







!

Goat milk is much easier to digest than cow milk. Raw milk has enzymes that have not been killed by being pasteurized. You can see how both these things would make digestion and absorbtion much easier for a babe with impaired and damaged digestion. You may recall that Rubin has three stages of the diet in the back of his book. He tells those who are sick or with digestive problems that it is imperative to start in phase one which calls for raw goat milk yoghurt. Those who are healthy and already eat well may start the diet at stage three which allows for cow milk and suggests raw, but does not demand it. It all depends on how impaired your digestion is and how much help you need in digestion. I think that goat milk does taste a little different, but not much. I have been told that the milk will have a funky taste if the female goat is kept with a male goat, but will taste like cow milk if only female goats are kept together. Don't even ask where I got that tidbit of useless info







.
When your boys can eat grains you might want to check out Food For Life Ezekiel 4:9 tortillas. They are flourless and completely sprouted so much easier to digest. I just wish they didn't have sprouted soy







. Not sure about soy for myself and dd.
I know that dd's pancreatic enzymes were low in January five months before we started the diet due to the CDSA stool test from Great Smokies Lab. Since switching her from cow to raw goat cheese and yoghurt she has make much quicker progress.
I need to do some research to see if the raw goat milk cheese and milk has good bacteria in it in addition to the beneficial enzymes. I called alta Dena goat farm that makes the cheese I get from the local HF store and asked that question, but the girl was clueless and could not even understand my question







. More research to do. I feel like I'm neglecting one of your other questions. I will repost if that is the case. Please bear with my







.

Peace,


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

I am just cutting and pasting the following response I wrote to a mama who is really on the fence about starting the SCD for her babe. I have tried to encourage mamas to read the book - you cannot make an informed decision off other mama's advice and stories. The most powerful thing you can do is educate yourself! This diet may not be the best thing for you or dd/ds. You may want to add things from the Makers Diet to SCD as I did, but you won't know unless you read the books and research for yourself. Empower yourselves - READ!!!









You are the one who has to make this decision and you have the tool to do it in your hands. I thought the diet was rediculous and returned the book to the library after just looking at the recipes in January. Only when I heard of someone that it had helped with digestive problems did I check it out again and was DESPERATE to read it. After reading it EVERYTHING that dd had gone through for the past 10 months made sense. No one could have talked me out of placing her on the diet at that point even though it meant giving her SO many foods that I thought she was allergic to. DD was not eating, vomiting 3 times a day and only keeping 9 oz down per day. She was in the NEGATIVE 30% on the weight chart. So, I felt very desperate to help her.
I think the most powerful thing you can do as a parent other than show your child unconditional love and acceptance is to educate yourself so that you can stand behind the decisions that you make for your child knowing that they were the best decisions you were capable of making. To know that you have done all you can in your power for him/her is so very important.
I regret not doing research into vaccines before dd was born and I will always regret that! I accecpted what I had learned in nursing school instead of doing my own homework even though my Mothering subscription was routinely carrying an article connecting vaccines to autism. I always thought "Oh I eat organic whole foods, have no bad habits (i.e. smoking or drinking), and excercise routinely so my baby will never get autism







: ." The hindsight of the foolish is 20:20 when their eyes are opened







.
Please just read the book and then with all the mama's wisdom and love you have for your babe decide what is best for him/her. I really do know that this is a very hard decision for you to make and this is the best advice I know to give. You are a wonderul mama or you wouldn't be doing all this searching. The diet may not be the best thing for him/her right now. Trust yourself!!!
Forgive me if I have been too harsh. I try to be very careful about giving advice and just try to share my experiences and point parents to the resources they need to make informed decisions. I can't stand it when people try to shove info in your face or use scare tactics. Know that I meant well even if you found this reply offensive.

Peace and







,


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Thank you so much for all your information Moneca! It is like finding a gold mine! Thank God that we are not in desperate need (at least as far as we can "tell") of healing, but I am sure there is stuff going on that we don't even know about. I am so happy to hear how well your dd is doing ... may she continue to heal and thrive!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

So we are on day two of the diet, but I guess we aren't doing it 100%. Selkie is still nursing so it will never be an all the way thing, but even the changes we have made are making an absolute difference. Selkie ate an entire egg this morning and part of a chicken pancake for lunch! Quillian is also doing it (just starting him today) and I'll let you all know how that goes. He has some gut issues, but you'd never know if you didn't look really closely. I'm hoping to see a big chenage in both of them. I'm toying with the idea of doing it myself, hoever I have been vegan for awhile and don't know if I could eat meat







: I have digestive issues myself which got 99% better on the eat to live diet, but maybe this is th final 1%. I'm really thinking about it. How many of you have chosen to do this with their kiddos?


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

hi i feel like i have a similar problem as you guys but follow a different diet. i don't like "diets" but a pain that i was having in my stomach went away after quitting all meat but fish (trying to eat things that are easy to digest). i noticed it flared up whenever i ate a lot of meat so here i am. i went to the dr and he did say it was something with my stomach but put me on a medical trial of some medicine to lower the acid in my stomach. i am not taking it b/c it just doesn't sit well with me. ever since i started eating this way i have no pain in my side!!! i also just got a yogurt maker and hope that will help.

i don't expect anyone to know what is wrong with me. sometimes i wonder if it was an ulcer b/c i was under a lot of stress. took some motrin and excedrin out of true necessity and i rarely take those things. i feel that as long as i'm not having pain in my side my body is telling me i am doing something right. i hope to avoid any medicine or a GI exam. yikes!

mountainmom, that probiotic thread is long. why don't we start a new thread about making homemade yogurt?


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

I just posted this on the "old" thread on the allergies forum before I had read all the posts and realized you all had moved! Awesome info here! I'll add a little more to my post...
DD's birthday was Monday (July 25) and JANE... Happy Birthday!









I'd been trying for a week to make the 24 hr SCD yogurt from goat milk but had never gotten the temp right, so ended up making the frosting for DD's cake out of organic Wallaby yogurt, Marscapone cheese (my natural foods store won't order the Farmer's or dry curd cottage cheese), and agave nectar. It tasted awesome on the carob cake I made from a recipe from the MDC nutrition forum (not SCD legal). DD didn't want cake...but of course I ate some and I also have been eating the chocolate mousse cake we bought from a local bakery. Not a sign of ezcema on her, just some red around the anus. I'm very grateful I can enjoy foods like that but want to limit my consumption for her sake and mine--I know they aren't the healthiest.

Hi everyone,

Yes, this thread is great and it is great to see so much activity on it. I've heard a lot about the maker's diet but have yet to investigate it. I do have Joseph Mercola's book, "Dr. Mercola's Total Health Cookbook and Program." He advocates a kind of "eat for your type" diet-not blood type, but based on "metabolic type,"
which you determine based on a questionnaire. The forward of the book is by the author of the Maker's Diet, and Dr. Mercola advocates the Maker's Diet quite a lot on his website, so I imagine the diets are similar. However, Mercola's diet is not like the SCD diet at all. Mercola is into raw dairy, beef, and eggs. Similarly the Nourishing Traditions author advocates feeding babies raw egg... I tried that w/ Jasmine at about age 9 mo and she threw up shortly thereafter! Mercola doesn't recommend eating grains, and Nourishing Traditions says only eat grains if they are properly soaked... and of course there are no grains whatsoever on the SCD. I can't imagine that the SCD would help someone loose weight-as replacing grain based flours with nut based flours would add more calories/fat into the diet.

DD's digestion has certainly improved-whole food pieces used to come out undigested in her stool, but not anymore. I simply attribute that to age (she just turned one). She really doesn't get the eczema anymore, even if I eat the "wrong" foods-for which I'm very grateful. I think she got the eczema at 5 months because her system could not handle what I was eating. I think my digestion was poor from being on antibiotics for a month shortly after her birth, for both a breast infection and a retained placenta, not using probiotics, and eating a lot of chocolate and baked goods. Her digestive system, not being fully mature, of course, couldn't handle all the foreign proteins and toxins(?). Yes, I now see it was due to food sensitivity-not allergy per se.

In August I'm doing a consultation with a nutritionist I've been pretty impressed w/ (she knew what the SCD was!) to get her take on things!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Hey Sarah, I'm so glad to hear you are Jasmine are doing better!









We are still not 100% SCD. DS is still addicted to his rice milk, and seeing as we've only just weaned, I'm not pushing it for the next week or so. I'm also going to find it hard to give up my raw milk kefir (made from Body Ecology starter powder) seeing as I've noticed some very positive changes from it. I guess we are both just being stubborn! But since cutting all grains out of my diet, I can definately feel the benefit. Even with adding honey and more fruit.

The Body Ecology Diet is also for healing the gut, and advocates only a few grains: quinoa, millet, amaranth and buckwheat, which supposedly do not feed the yeast b/c they are more like seeds. Also red skinned potatoes. The SCD says this is rubbish. It's so weird that they have been developed for the same thing, yet diametrically opposed on many issues. Also stevia... the SCD says it's got a chemical structure like a steriod and should be avoided, the BED uses with impunity.

Enough to make you go completely









I'm ordering the Maker's Diet from my library, been meaning to read for a while now so I'll let you know my thoughts when I get a chance to read.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Well, first I'm mountainmon. While I would love to be mistaken for Coleen a.k.a. mountainmom ( she is a master herbalist and VERY wise mama who helped and encouraged me quite a bit over the last year







) I suppose I should make the distinction.

Elisabeth - I'm happy to hear things are going so well. You're a wonderful mama to try everything in your power to help Selkie







. Don't stop breastfeeding. I believe that it is more healing to the gut than anything. I mean, look I'm paying 50.00 per 16 oz. of cow colustrum to heal Sierra's gut. You have the real thing for free







!

Nicole - There is so much info in the probiotic thread, not to mention ALL the wonderful links. I'm not qualified to start a thread that could compare to that one. It is lengthy. Jane has been at this longer than I have and has done much more research. She may be up for that daunting task :LOL .

Sarah -







So good to hear from you again. My chiro told me that it was dangerous to eat raw eggs because there was something called biotin in them that our bodies could not break down and could cause damage. I have no idea what biotin is or if that statement is true. I will try to do some research.
Sounds like you are piecing together a healthful and realistic way of eating from different specialists' ideas of the perfect meal plan. I'm just trying to use my common sense and experience to figure this all out. I don't think SCD is really healthy, but it IS healing Sierra's gut. There is some really important stuff that she misses out on like raw foods (esp. dairy IMO)and eating organic whole foods.
It is wonderful that DD is doing so well!









To everyone. Please learn from my mistakes this past week. First I tried placing Sierra on some probiotics with the HSO from the Makers Diet. I saw that there was barley and fermented maple syrup or molasses in the mix. I figured that the good of so many organisims would outweigh the negative effect of just a little illegal food source. WRONG







:. I saw a more cranky dd and more putrid smelling stools again for a couple days







. I know that aloe is healing to the gut. I bought some organic aloe juice and slipped about 1/2 an oz in dd's grape juice today. The eczema on her ears burst forth within an hour of consuming it and she had a most putrid smelling diarrhea a few hours later







. Ends up aloe is on the illegal list - would have taken me a minute to check instead of being so convinced in my own head that it had to be legal. Oh well, she is doing wonderfully despite my mistakes







.

Peace to all







,


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Elisabeth and Amy - Jane and I have been discussing the whole idea of BM and the SCD trying to figure out an answer for both of you. There is just NOTHING on it in the book. Jane did find the following post on www.pecanbread.com :

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/26338

I realize that you may not belong to pecanbread.com so I have just cut and pasted the whole post below. Remember that we do not know the author and can not claim any of it as true. I thought it might help







.

From: "iwrf" <[email protected]>
Date: Wed Dec 1, 2004 5:53 pm
Subject: Re: Starting SCD with allergic breastfed baby iwrf
Offline
Send Email
Hi,

Yes! SCD should be wonderful for both of you!

I have a special interest in this area, I have worked with lactation
for many years and SCD for a few. Let me explain this the best I
can, to help you understand how breastfeeding and the SCD interact.

You are the primary person who needs SCD, in addition to your son.
Unfortunately, health care providers are not tuned in to the
digestive health of the mother most times when we are pregnant, and
don't recognize a mother with a "leaky gut." As the mom, we then
pass these whole undigested proteins into our milk and give our
breastfeeding infants the same digestive environment that we have
(which we are often unaware of), which can create "allergies" and
eczema, because it is like they are eating these whole foods from
birth, and their immature immune systems can't handle this. Simply
put, at this point, especially since 90% of his nutrition still
comes from you, his digestive health mirrors yours.

As far as the breastmilk is concerned, PLEASE keep breastfeeding!
This is truly the best thing you can do for yourself and your child,
and you will both benefit together as you both become healthier. How
wonderful that you have found a resource like SCD to help you both
heal! The especially important part of your milk right now (aside
from the bonding experience which is essential) are the
immunoglobulins present in it. There is Secretory IgA, which comes
through all the time and is helping to tame some of his allergic
responses, and there are specific immune proteins generated at other
times. For instance, if he is exposed to a germ of some type, he
passes this through your nipple to you. The very next feeding,
immune complexes are made (only in the breast, they don't go
systemic for you) and are passed back to him to help him fight
whatever he's been exposed to. (Nature's pretty amazing, eh?!)

(If he is still getting this much nutrition from breastfeeding,
chances are he is slightly anemic and thin. As long as your health
care provider is monitoring this, it shouldn't turn into a big
problem. The important thing for him to learn from foods right now
is to experience and be comfortable with different textures, long
term exclusive breastfeeders can end up with texture issues.)

Lactose in breast milk is not the issue here. Babies have something
called salivary amylase, which helps them start breaking down sugars
in their mouths. This disappears after a year of age if not
breastfeeding, or when breastfeeding is no longer the major source
of nutrition, whichever comes later. Because of this enzyme, lactose
is broken down most of the way before it hits the small intestine.
Lactose is not the primary problem here, it is the whole proteins
leaking through your gut barrier which later pass into your milk.
What SCD will do is help heal your gut so you stop passing proteins
through for him to react to, which in turn will help heal his gut.

If you can be more specific with the allergies he has, there are
many people on this board who can help you accommodate those
allergies and still be very successful on SCD. I have worked with
SCD with many folks, and with breastfeeding moms of allergic babes,
and have not yet found a way around eliminating allergens completely
from both of your diets for at least a short period of time.
Otherwise he won't be able to heal completely.

Good luck with everything, sounds like you are choosing the right
paths to help heal your son. It's not easy, but can be very
rewarding. Feel free to email me if you need to.

Namaste,
Anne
PA who uses SCD
on SCD about 3 years
mother of Kiona, almost 4, healed from many GI problems, down from
over 40 food allergies to 7, no longer ASD
mother of Justice, 1, down from over 20 food allergies to 4
stepmother of Tyler, 14, GFCF, no longer ADD

Hope this helps







,


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Moneca,*
It's raw egg whites that inhibit biotin absorption. Raw egg yolks are very beneficial. http://www.mercola.com/2005/feb/9/raw_eggs.htm

Yeah I have the Garden of Life HSO's too ... a nice big $45 bottle of it sitting in my fridge irritating me. I've heard fabulous things and bad things about them. Of course I heard the bad things after I bought them







:

Of course the crankiness and putrid stools could have been die-off. Or not. Actually it's kind of crazy how a lot of symptoms are commonly explained as "die-off" but is it really that or intolerance? Personally I find that if I eat perfectly, I feel better, not worse. Don't know if that's good or bad.

As long as we are sharing, DS had some duck with me 2 days ago and he didn't digest it well. Pooped 3 times the next day and of course Mr. Independent wouldn't let me change his diaper right away. Preferred to muck around in it and grind it in by riding his car. Got a bullseye rash. Mama Smarty Pants decided to use aloe vera on it and he screamed







. Poor baby. Had to resort to nasty Desitin, but the rash is gone in a day.

*So this is where we are now:*

DS's poops are 99% firm and well digested for the most part, even on our previous lots of rice diet. It's mostly yeast/sugar sensitivity we are working on now, to heal his gut for good. He (and I) really cannot tolerate sugar, potatoes, wheat, etc. And I suspect that he is still allergic to dairy but I've been hesitant to do a full on test of it.

And as I have noticed insomnia and anxiety in myself and also DS from food reactions, that is my ultimate goal with him.... to fix his gut so he can calm down. Besides a normal toddler obsession with "no" he is very focused during the day, it's just when it's time to sleep he gets jittery and fights it like there's no tomorrow. It's stressful, exhausing and time consuming for DH and I. He's been this way since he emerged from the womb. Plus frequent nightaking, DS has slept through the night maybe 10 times in his life. Lately I've been supplementing with magnesium since that works so well with me and it seems to be helping him. Sometimes.

And of course after reading SCD knowledge on bifidus...
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...kb/bifidus.htm
... I wonder if the loads of Baby Jarro he has consumed for over a year did him more harm than good (his stool sample showed tons of bifidus but no acidophilus growth). But it did get rid of the diarrhea so who knows.

This is a very interesting article regarding gut health, vaccines, immune response and autism.
http://www.autismanswer.com/articles...itotoxins.html
I've been looking to the knowledge of the autism community more and more... not just for the mercury issue... but those kids almost always have damaged guts and there's lots to learn from them.

One quote stood out:

Quote:

Another complicating factor in the whole vaccine process is the common practice of acetaminophen (i.e.tylenol) administration prior to, and following vaccination of children. Acetaminophen has been shown to deplete glutathione levels, which are critical for detoxification in the body. Between acetaminophen administration and mercury it would lead to a severe depletion of already low glutathione levels.
No wonder our current generation of kids have messed up immune systems.









And also, I'm thinking about doing a cleanse now that DS has just weaned. Any recs?

Considering The Master Cleanse. Hey, if I use honey instead of maple syrup, it's SCD legal :LOL


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Thanks for posting that about SCD and bf'ing Moneca, as I read it again, it makes a lot of important points.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Jane - very interesting article on autism. Oh, the bullet we both were blessed to dodge







. My dh tried master cleanse for about 3 days a few years ago. He thought he was going to die







so he broke it too soon. Before you decide on a cleanse read the makers diet. he has some suggestions in there. Thanks for the info on biotin. yes, it could have been die-off. Sierra had the exact same bifidus 4+ and lack of any other good bacteria in her CDSA. She had also been on Baby Jarrow for months. I wonder...

I would be glad to reveal my cheap, crazy, and perfect way of making 24 hour yoghurt if anyone needs help. It took me 5 weeks to find a way of making it without oveheating and killing the good guys. I make org cow for DH and I. Sierra gets org goat. Would love to make org raw goat if I could find the raw milk closer to me. I drove 2 hours last fall to buy some, but that is a bit of a haul.

Peace,


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mountainmon*
I would be glad to reveal my cheap, crazy, and perfect way of making 24 hour yoghurt if anyone needs help.

That would be great, Moneca! I did finally invest in a heating pad which seems to be the right temp-I was going to wrap it or drape it around the container and see!

That was a great article on breastfeeding!

Jane, do you feel better on the SCD as opposed to what you were doing right before that?

My dd also fights sleeping at times, and I've noticed I sleep better when I eat mellower foods... so I'm sure there is a connection!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Must Read Article*

Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) in children
http://www.i-c-m.org.uk/journal/2004/nov/a01.htm

Quote:

Gut flora is something we do not think much about. And yet the number of functions the gut flora fulfils is so vital for us that if some day our digestive tract got sterilised we probably would not survive.

Well-functioning gut flora is the right hand of our immune system. The beneficial bacteria in the gut ensure appropriate production of different immune cells, immunoglobulins and other parts of the immunity. But, most importantly, they keep the immune system in the right balance. What typically happens in a person with gut dysbiosis is that two major arms of their immune system, Th1 and Th2, get out of balance, with Th1 becoming underactive and Th2 becoming overactive. As a result the immune system starts reacting to most environmental stimuli in an allergic or atopic kind of way.

The mixture of toxicity in each child can be quite individual and different. But what they all have in common is gut dysbiosis. The toxicity that is produced by the abnormal microbial mass in these children establishes a link between the gut and the brain. That is why it is logical to group these disorders under one name: the Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAP Syndrome). The GAP children can present with symptoms of autism, ADHD, ADD, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, dyslexia, dyspraxia, schizophrenia, depression, sleep disorders, allergies, asthma and eczema in any possible combination. These are the children who fall into a gap in our medical knowledge.

Any child with a learning disability, neurological or psychological problems and allergies should be thoroughly examined for gut dysbiosis. Re-establishing normal gut flora and treating the digestive system of the child has to be the number one treatment for these disorders, before considering any other treatments with drugs or otherwise.
Dr. Campbell-McBride cured her child of learning disabilites with diet and uses the SCD in her practice. I'm trying to locate the book she wrote, _Gut and Psychology Syndrome_. It is published in the UK and only available on her website and at www.amazon.co.uk


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yes, Sarah, I can completely tell the difference using SCD... it's better than my previous diet of no sugar, limited fruit, no juice but still eating non gluten grains. I didn't believe it until I tried it.

SCD uses fruit and honey but no grains/corn/potatoes at all. Fruit and honey are monosaccarides and more easily digestible. The sugars are absorbed before they reach the large intestines. More complex carbs like sugar, grains, etc. in a damaged gut are not fully digested and end up fermenting in the intestine and becoming food for the yeast and bad bacteria...which then grow and make digestion even worse. Thus the name, 'The Vicious Cycle'.

Re: Making Yogurt

I'm a wimp, I use a machine... the EuroCuisine from WilliamsSonoma.com. It comes with individual jars but I also use a pyrex glass bowl that I found fits it exactly. I use either a few tablespoons yogurt or Yogourmet as a starter.

However, I may try to rig up a "Moneca Special" with a heating pad b/c I would like to be able to make more than a qt. at at time.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*More on Breastfeeding and The Gut*

Actually that post above that mentions amylase: the enzyme that digests carbs is not all correct.... breastmilk itself contains it. And the baby's pancreas does not start to produce it until after 6 months.

Quote:

Trivia: Ever wonder why cereal mixed with breastmilk doesn't stay thick? Breastmilk contains amylase, which is an enzyme that digests carbohydrates. The longer the mixture sits, the thinner it will get!
http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/so...rst-foods.html

I have always known that the several bottles we gave DS during his first few days of life contributed to his gut problems. (His hematocrit levels were high, bf'ing was going great, but he needed more fluid.)

If I knew then what I know now I would have asked a bf'ing friend for some of her milk, or demanded banked milk. Again, this is sooooooo common. It's not a wonder that babies today have increased immune system problems.

*The Case for the Virgin Gut: Even the Occasional Bottle of Formula Has Its Risks*
http://breastfeed.com/resources/articles/virgingut.htm

*Supplementation of the Breastfed Baby: "Just One Bottle Won't Hurt"-- or Will It?*
http://www.massbfc.org/formula/bottle.html

Delaying Solids
http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/so...ay-solids.html

Quote:

Delaying solids decreases the risk of food allergies.
It is well documented that prolonged exclusive breastfeeding results in a lower incidence of food allergies.

From birth until somewhere between four and six months of age, babies possess what is often referred to as an "open gut." This means that the spaces between the cells of the small intestines will readily allow intact macromolecules, including whole proteins and pathogens, to pass directly into the bloodstream.This is great for your breastfed baby as it allows beneficial antibodies in breastmilk to pass more directly into baby's bloodstream, but it also means that large proteins from other foods (which may predispose baby to allergies) and disease-causing pathogens can pass right through, too.

During baby's first 4-6 months, while the gut is still "open," antibodies (sIgA) from breastmilk coat baby's digestive tract and provide passive immunity, reducing the likelihood of illness and allergic reactions before gut closure occurs. Baby starts producing these antibodies on his own at around 6 months, and gut closure should have occurred by this time also.
And we started cereal at just after 5 months b/c DS was a big baby and having sleeping problems.... of course everyone, doctor included, said it would help him sleep.







A week or so later, eczema appeared.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Jane - I haven't read the whole article on the gap, but am looking forward to it. The clips you posted were very interesting and make perfect sense.

I just wanted to post my "building instructions" for my cheap and perfect contraption.

First, If you have an electric oven you could try placing a 60 watt bulb in for the oven light and leaving it on (the light not the oven) for 24 hours - longer to let the oven heat up first. Test the temp by placing a glass jar with screw on lid filled with water in the oven. Make sure your water is 100 -110 when placing it in the oven and check the temp every 4 hours or so to make sure it is holding 100 - 110. bacteria start to die at 117 and BTVC suggests 100-110. I would have used this EASY pathway if it had been an option. You could make as much yoghurt at one time as your oven will hold.

My way - Electric heating pad on the bottom. Take a large pot (mine is 16 liters, but I would have bought the 20 liter if it was available) with a lid. I can make up to 2 gallons at a time with the 16 liter. Fill it with water to about 5 inches from the top with water. I make sure the water is around 105 deg. Place something in the bottom of the pot (can use a baby food lid if just doing one jar of yoghurt. When I make 2 or more I use a metal trivit that has a rubber coating). You don't want a direct heat source directly below your yoghurt. It will keep the bottom up to 15 deg hotter than the top (trust me - I made this error). You could also use a ceramic ramekin. Just be sure to turn the lid or ramekin upside down once it is submerged to release the air pocket as this may interfere with the conduction ( not really sure I just release the bubble). Place the lid on the pot and turn on your heating pad. Most will have to run it on medium. I run mine on low to keep a 104-106 deg temp.
Heat your milk to 180 deg for 2 minutes on the stove. Make sure to wash everything that touches the milk and yoghurt right before using. THere are airborne yeast that can otherwise land on your utensils and pots. They will culture beautifully just like the good guys







.
I fill my sink with cold water and put the pot of milk in there with the lid. It takes the temp down within 5 minutes. Once the temp of the milk decreases to 110 you can add your starter or yoghurt. I use starter - yogourmet. I mix the packets in about 1 cup of milk and make sure there are no clumps. Introducing lots of air by using a wisk or vigorous mixing will decrease you end good beastie count. Add the rest of the milk and mix with a spoon to be sure the culture is mixed with the entire batch.
If using a glass yoghurt container ( I use 1/2 gallon mason jars - you can buy a case of 6 at the hardware store for about 10 dollars ) I find that the yoghurt temp maintains at the same temp to one degree off of the water temp. This way you can just check your water temp every four hours or so instead of opening your yoghurt container to check temp which is not a good idea anyway. I culture mine for 25 hours just to be sure all the lactose has been converted. Carefully remove yoghurt container and place in the BACK of the fridge for 8 hours without touching it. The yoghurt will keep for 3 weeks, but the good beasties start to die after 2 weeks.
Good luck. Gotta run.

Peace,


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Oh, this is gonna be tough! That was a good post regarding breastfeeding, and I thank you for it. It's what my LC and I have been working on forever. I have DEFINITE gut issues. In fact, I have been treated as though I have celiac disease for awhile now, but things haven't improved 100%. I suppose I could try the SCD I just need to locate a book to make sure I"m doing it properly. I'm just gonna have to commit to chicken and eggs for a bit.








In light of this we clearly haven't been doing the SCD properly for my girl. But the good news is between the chicken, eggs and carrots she's eating more than she has in a long time. THe one thing that intrigues me though is that she takes a good hour and a half to eat an egg and she will only eat it in rice sized bites. She gags if she puts any more in her mouth. Could that be a part of this? Or is it just that she isn't at all used to solid food?
Quillian is on it as well. It's not all that difficult, but I am cheating my way into it. There is nothing in the world that will get that kid to eat carrots, so I've been juicing them. Also I put mashed, raw zucchini in his eggs. We're getting there. I'm sure it will make alot more sense after I read the book.


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Thanks, Moneca, for the instructions. The water bath contraption sounds like it will work much better. I made some yogurt this weekend, and ended up putting the pot of yogurt directly on top of the pad, even though the pad had warnings about having anything on top of it and I was afraid I'd burn the house down. I tried putting it on the side of the pot but it didn't keep the temp high enough. What you say makes since about the temp being too hot on the bottom, if you put the pot directly on the pad.

Does it matter what type of container you make the yogurt in? I just used the saucepan (with lid) that I used to heat the milk in.

Jane, great article on the GAP! I will be interested to see if you can get the book and what you think of it. You are inspiring me to try the SCD! My DH and I think we both have yeast because we both have a lot of bloating. I did feel better when I was on the elimination diet. It would be interesting to see how I would feel on the SCD. I do have the book and have read it, so I know what is involved.

I have been very conservative with DD in terms of giving her food. At some point I mixed some rice cereal with water, and she didn't want it. So I didn't give her any. She never has had formula. All she really likes eating is meat and some fruits, and a few cooked greens. The one time I gave her rice, several months ago, it did come out whole in her stool. My friends feed their babies "Veggie Bootie," which is some sort of health food version of a cheese puff, which I didn't want to give her. Interestingly, she isn't interested in the health food "junk food" that other moms give their children. Luckily I had decided not to vaccinate, so I didn't have that as an issue with her. I think her gut flora that she got from me probably were not ideal, then the antibiotics I took when she was little didn't help. When I look back at the pics I took when she had the eczema, she did not look happy... in any of the pics I took at that time! I'm sure her stomach was hurting.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

For those of you in stage one :
The banana pancakes are wonderful, but I found a way to make them better.
Mix two banana (after mashing) with 3 omega 3 eggs (I found that purred cooked mango chunks also work well and give some variety). Add 1 - 2 Tbsp. of coconut oil. It makes the pancakes more fluffy and I don't need to tell you all about the benefits of coconut oil.

Sarah - Check out the recipes on www.pecanbread.com You might find something for Jasmine. Not sure about making yoghurt in a pot. I feel better doing everything in glass, but try it and let me know. Remember that the only way for us to check and detrmine if the cultures are alive is to make a new batch of yoghurt from the old one and see if you get a solid end product. I would suggest doing this after your first batch to check live bacterial count. This way you won't waste money on organic milk and starter if the bugs aren't alive. I found that you will still have firm yoghurt results from using a starter even if the product is overheated and almost all the good beasties are killed by the time you get to 24 hours.

Best,


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

Mountainmon, thanks for referring me to this thread. The boards are so big now it is easy to miss things.

The problem I've had with goat yogurt is getting ds to eat it. The texture and taste is different. Any tips on overcoming that? I have to throw out three jars I made last month that are still in the fridge.

Ds loves goat milk, though- so it's not the goat taste.

What about nut allergies? Ds can't have any nuts without severe reaction and limited eggs (he doesn't like eggs).

His favorite food is buffalo. Right now he lives on goat milk, raw carrots, apples, buffalo, beef, oatmeal (chewy), occasional rice, cheese and yogurt (cow milk). Sometimes turkey or chicken, rice cakes or corn chips, popcorn, and salsa, fruit leather. He seems to like chewy, crunchy, spicy foods and has textural issues with many cheeses and soft foods.

I would like to get the corn out, as well as fruit leather, rice cakes and oatmeal but need some substitutions.

He is still nursing very often- over 3 years.

(I have the SCD book and was on the diet last year for a month til I reacted to almonds/peacans and gave up).

Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

So we got our allergy test results back and I am lost. Both kids are allergic to cashew butter and banana, one to eggs, both to avacado etc, etc, etc. My doc says that this particular test is very accurate and to avoid all allergens. How can I possibly heal their guts with these lists? Is it possible to do SCD without eggs, banana, nuts and a whole host of other stuff? THis is going to be REALLY tough.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Monica and Elisabeth -
You've got some limited diets, but I do believe it is possible. Bear with me...







.

Monica -

You're smart to stay away from all nuts. This keeps you from al the baked goods







. Let see... the goatmilk







. I'm sure you've tried smoothies made from the raw goatmilk yoghurt with some fruit and honey. If he doesn't go for these you could freeze the smoothie and make popsicles - perfect for this weather and the good beasties will survive the freezing. If you are really feeling energetic you could buy frozen mango or pineapple chunks, cook them in the oven, puree them and then layer them with the yoghurt in a popsicle mold. Put the puree in first for about a half inch then let it freeze. Repeat with the yoghurt and make several layers. You could even use different purees for multiple colors. Just a thought. I'd hate for you to go to all that work and then him not eat it . You could also make popsicles out of the cooked pureed fruit. I know that all the vitamins and enzymes are gone if you cook the fruit and veggies, but stage one calls for only cooked.

Will he eat wild alaskan salmon? Dd loves it grilled with lemon juice, sea salt, and dill.

Free range buffalo is wonderful. That is what I give dd. You can mix about 2 burgers worth with an omega 3 egg and an avacado and make a meatloaf out of the mixture. I also make the banana pancakes. Sometimes I make it with mango puree. Three omega 3 eggs, two bananas, 1 tbsp coconut oil (don't know if it's risky to use this with nut allergies) and make pancakes. Can you give him raw goatmilk cheese? Alta Dena makes the one we eat. Check out www.pecanbread.com or more recipes and I'll try to stimulate the brain a bit more







.

Elisabeth -
What kind of allergy tests were they? Igg, Ige, Iga? We had them all done. It's possible and I'll help you as much as I can. I hope it's not Selkie that is allergic to eggs since she is the one that really needs this diet. Are you going to try the coconut milk yoghurt? Well, no more banana pancakes - bummer! Coconut oil ( if you can take it with nut allergies?), olive oil, , wild alaskan salmon, and ghee (nonclarified butter = no caesin) can give you some fat which I know is important for Selkie. You didn't say anything about being allergic to milk and I know you buy raw goat milk. Does that mean you could try raw goat milk yoghurt for Selkie and mabey some raw goat cheese? You can still cook and puree the mango and other fruits. Can do popsicles if you need to. Taking out nuts, eggs, and avacado takes away a lot of your good fats







.
I'll keep thinking and get back to you. I do think you need to sit down with your ND and discuss all this. Sounds like she isn't absorbing any of the supplements that you're giving her because her digestion is so impaired so we have to find a way to make this work.







Jane are you out there? Can you help?


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Hi, this sounds like an intriguing thread. I'll admit I haven't totally read the old thread yet.
Dd, (19 months), has food allergies and eczema. I really believe it has to do with her gut. At three months, her stools changed from the normal breastfed ones to really smelly ones and has never gone back to normal. (the ped said the change was normal.) That was also about the time her cradle cap got really bad and her eczema spread over her body. She hadn't been on meds, not been vaccinated and I hadn't been on anything either. I decided to cut out the main allergens from my diet and finally convinced the ped to do allergy testing. She's allergic to milk (anaphylactic), wheat and dogs. Since then I've also found that she can't tolerate spinach, soy, beans, corn, berries. She also reacts to contact with almond oil.
I have really been trying to heal her. I heard so many good things about Primal Defense that I bought it for her. She takes that 2 times a day. And I give her aloe vera juice and a multivitamin. She also takes floradix iron for anemia. I would love to give her essential fatty acids but I can't seem to get her to take them. Even when I mix them in her food. She's also a very picky eater.
I would love to make coconut milk yogurt and am planning to experiment in the next few weeks. I was planning to use probiotics as the starter although I'm not sure which one. (She has reacted to the Nature's Way Reuterii in the past.) Which strains are the best?
I read the book, Breaking the Vicious Cycle, but quite frankly it depressed me. I don't see how I could do that for us as her allergist wants us to continue avoiding the major allergens (nuts, soy, eggs, milk, seafood, wheat). And I'm too afraid to try goat's milk due to the high percentage of milk allergic people not being able to tolerate it.
Any advice? How doable is the SCD if the major allergens need to be avoided?
Also, what about the aloe is bad? And why is the Primal Defense bad? I have been thinking about switching from that to something else because I can't really see that it helps.
Thanks in advance for the encouragement and advice.
Deborah


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## RiceMomma (Jul 23, 2004)

I've been reading alot of what you all have been saying about healing the gut. With regards to this SCD diet, my gal gets eczema all over her body- she is 2.5 years old and she's been like this for a little over a year now. She is allergic to soy, peanuts, eggs, tree nuts, strawberries, pineapple, oranges, peas and fish. Even when we avoid everything that we know about, she's still itchy. Stress makes her really itchy too. Would she be able to do this diet with all those allergies?

What about other ways to heal the gut? The problem is an overgrowth of yeast, right? First we need to clear that out and then heal the tissue and encourage proper flora? Theoretically, what about taking something like Diflucan? Just a random thought I had--I'm not into taking drugs. Are there other natural ways to heal the gut, specifically with herbs? I found a "gut-healing" recipe in Aviva Jill Romm's Naturally Healthy babies and children that I'm brewing up for my little gal. Can we kill the yeast with herbs? I've been giving her yogurt (not homemade- that's something I need to start doing...) and borage seed oil twice a day and we're seeing improvement with that.


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mountainmon*
Add 1 - 2 Tbsp. of coconut oil. It makes the pancakes more fluffy and I don't need to tell you all about the benefits of coconut oil.

Thanks, Moneca, for the idea re the banana pancakes. I tried them for the first time the other day. DD wouldn't eat them, but I did, although I didn't particularly like them









My goat milk yogurt I made in a stainless steel pot seemed to be alright... it was the first batch I had made that didn't get way too hot, although for part of the time it wasn't warm enough... I did it for about 30 hrs. It was fairly liquidy. I used an organic yogurt for the starter, so maybe next time I'll try a real starter. I ate some yesterday and I liked it. It hasn't seemed to cause any reaction in Jasmine's skin.

Moneca, your dedication and ideas are great!


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

I want to list Sierra's supplements that have been suggested or approved by our ND who we







. All the supplements are SCD legal. I brought this over from the allergy forum where it was originally posted to help out mamas who have joined us since then.

1. Kirkman labs hypoallergenic multivitamin http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/
2. Kirkman labs Colustrum Gold - This was suggested by the woman who started the pecanbread site. The product is caesin free and speeds the healing of the gut. http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/
3. Nordic naturals Berrykeen Fish Oil www.nordicnaturals.com
4. Glutamine - This is an amino acid that repairs the microscopic hairlike structures in the small intestine that are necessary for food to be absorbed.
5. Houston SCD Zyme Prime - These are enzymes that help digest fats, proteins, and carbs and are helpful while the digestion is still impaired and the gut is healing. This helps to reduce digestion time and improve absorbtion since the foods are fully digested. We add them to snacks and meals. http://www.houstonni.com/
6. Neuroscience Trava Cor - Our ND ordered a urine test to check Sierra's neurotransmitter levels since many are manufactured in the gut. All levels were off and her serotonin was very low. These are amino acids that support neurotransmitter levels. http://www.neurorelief.com/

Hope this helps .

Peace,


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Wow you're going to make me really think hard







. I'm learning more as I try to answer questions







.

Sarah - Yours is the easiest so I'll start there. Goat milk yoghurt is usually thinner than cow milk yoghurt. I make dd's in the exact same way as I make mine, but her yoghurt is much thinner. Remember if the yoghurt does not hold 100-110 for 24 hours then there is still some lactose in the batch as not all has been converted to galactose. You're learning through trial and error just like myself. Welcome to the club







.

Deborah - If dd was still exclusively BF at 3 months then her stools should have smelled the same. Sierra had only BM through 6 mo and her poos always had that sweet breastmilk smell







. Wow, I miss those innocent little diapers :LOL . You were very wise to not vaccinate. SCD is possible with all your limitations, but it will make things harder. The only way to determine if your dd has dysbiosis (an imbalance in the gut flora that damages digestion and absorbtion) is to send stool in for a CDSA test from Great Smokies Lab http://www.gsdl.com/home/assessments/cdsa/appguide/
This was the only test that gave me any information. You are wise to avoid goat milk as 90% of children with dairy allergies also have goat milk allergy. I would suggest you go to www.pecanbread.com and look at the recipe section. THis is a site specific to kids on the spectrum that are on the SCD diet. Many kids on the spectrum have MULTIPLE allergies and texture issues that make feeding very difficult. Jody Goddard started that site and she is one of the available counselors. I would suggest you set up a session with her as she is commonly working with children with multiple allergies who start the diet. She is an incredible source of wisdom [email protected] . I actually paid her to answer lots of questions I had when I first started the diet. She only charges $50.00 for a two hour phone session. She can make this diet possible for anyone.
It is important to remember that an injured gut cannot digest or absorb properly. I know that Elisabeth has Selkie on the floradix and her iron levels are still not coming up. If there is poor absorbtion it does not matter how many supplements you give - they're just passing through until you start to heal the gut. The only alternative is to give it IV and who want to put their babe through that







? My previous post suggests a wonderful EFA that Sierra loves when you get to the point of giving that supplement.
There is nothing wrong with aloe juice (it is a wonderful gut healer as far as injured tissue) or primal deffense IMO. The problem is that they are not allowed on the SCD due to ingredients in the primal deffense and the chemical comp. of the aloe juice.

Ricemama - Yes, I believe you could do this. I would also suggest that you go to www.pecanbread.com to view recipes and www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info to look at a list of legal and illegal foods. Write down everything that is legal that your babe can eat. If you can make a diet of these foods go for it. If it seems too hard I would also suggest contacting Jody Goddard as she deals with many diet limitations quite frequently. No, the problem is not only with yeast, but also with many "bad bacteria" that are out of balance with the "good bacteria".

I hope this helps. Let me know if I skipped anything







.

Peace,


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

Thanks, mountainmon! You are a wealth of good info.







:

I haven't tried popsicles with a yogurt smoothie- I'll give that a try. We do eat goat cheese- cheddar and soft cheese. He seems to do much better with goat dairy, although has no overt reaction to dairy (I did an elimination with no change).

I'm going to try the pancakes tonight. The way my kids eat, they'll probably want a piece of cheese on top.

Salmon is a good idea. Need to buy that again.

Do any other kids do poorly with chicken? I just made the connection last night.


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## RiceMomma (Jul 23, 2004)

Thanks so much for answering my questions/musings. I've known for a long time that there was something wrong inside my daughters body, but didn't know what or how to fix it.


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## starbarrett (Jun 16, 2004)

I first want to say thanks to the original mamas of the thread. I have learned so much in reading the thread and the links. Such a great resource.

I just finished reading Breaking the Vicious Cycle, and I have to talk about it! She does a great job at breaking the biologic principles down for the lay-person. I learned quite a bit. But, I have to say I was struck by how much it felt like "nutritional history". It's a highly referenced article, very reliant on research to support it's hypothesis, and it struck me that the references were to research done somewhere between the 60s and 80s. I was especially struck when I read the line "very recent research indicates" which referrenced to a study in 1984-- that was 20 years ago! And saccharine and canned fish are SCD approved. It's easy enough to update the diet in practice using common sense and current knowledge, and as the digestive system hasn't changed in 2 decades, I'm sure that most of it is still relevent. Especially in light of mountainmom's success in healing Siera. However, it just struck me that though my copy was the 9th edition copyrighted in 2002, that no one had bothered to update the text. It makes me wonder if there's more than just saccharine that is outdated about her approved foods.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Just have time for a quick post:

RE: aloe
I seem to remember that there is a derivation of latex or something in aloe that increases diarrhea and is irritating to the intestines. Here is the SCD info on it, "Aloe Vera - Illegal - It contains mucilaginous polysaccharides as well as increasing the release of tumor necrosis factor which is associated with IBD inflammation and increased immune stimulation. "

SCD info on Primal Defense: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...al_defense.htm

The only probiotics SCD recommends are lactobacillus acidophilus, bulgarius and thermophilus.

Since I gave DS "Baby Jarro-dophilus" for over a year based on many positive recs... and then when his stool was tested he was 4+ for bifidus and negative for acidophilus, (and 4+ for several pathogenic bacteria) I do think SCD has something here. Bifidus was not doing the job and could have been contributing to the problem... It was described in the book as being bifidus dominant after the nursing period (meaning after starting solid food) was a chief symptom of celiac disease.

There are tons of recs everywhere for supposedly good probiotics, some people do well, some not. Personally I'm sticking with the SCD recs for now b/c the diet is clinically tested, and I have seen evidence of what were doing before not working for us.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Amber, welcome!

Glad to hear your comments...

I have the more recent addition, not sure if it's different, but there is at least one reference to a groundbreaking 1991 study published in the Lancet by J.O. Hunter re: allergies not being allergies, but improper digestion of food. (Hey, didn't I have that idea too? :LOL)

Also in the autism section, she referenced a study of only a few years ago.

I agree with you re: updating, but really, I'm comforted by the fact that there is a real scientific theory behind the recommendation of certain things. Yes, saccharine might not be good for you, and I would never use it... but chemically it will not disrupt what the diet is trying to achive, ykwim?

It's sad that this diet has been in practice for what, over 60 years since devised by Dr. Sidney Haas... and most of the medical community has barely given it a glance, nevermind rigorous testing and debate.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Chapter on autism from the most recent edition of the BTVC book explains more about how food allergies are caused by bacterial overgrowth and improper function of gut:
http://www.pecanbread.com/BTVCautismchapter.html


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## starbarrett (Jun 16, 2004)

I suppose if it ain't broke don't fix it. :LOL

You really think that the medical community has done no further research on this line of healing and that there are no recent studies to reference? I imagine with what seems like a irritible bowel syndrome epidemic and all the controversy about autism that there has to be some recent research from the nutritional science community at least. It is sad that Drs refuse to heal via nutrition. Everybody wants a magic pill. I have two aunts and two cousins who are dibilitated by digestive disorders. They've been battling them for years, going to drs. Never once have they heard of SCD.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Amber







,

Glad to have you join us. Yes, BTVC suggests some things that make me cringe. There is no mention of the importance of enzymes or organics. I suggest reading the Maker's Diet by Jordan Rubin after BTVC to help you "purify" the SCD. Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon is also filled with nutritional wisdom for when you have extra time. I have altered Sierra's diet, but kept it SCD legal. We only give her organic. I give her goat milk yoghurt (easier to digest than cow milk which is VERY important when the gut and digestion are already impaired), raw goat cheese (the enzymes are still present in raw products which also assist digestion), and I give her a couple of oz. of carrot juice per day dilluted with an equal amount of spring water (the carrot juice is easily assimilated even in the sickest of guts, has vitamins, and contains enzymes). I can't wait to start her on raw fruits and veggies







!

Peace,


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Just wanted to add :
Please remember to share your victories and any food that you find works well for your babes (esp. if you are dealing with a more limited diet due to "allergies" or "sensitivities"). This will encourage other mamas in sim. situations. Remember that healing the gut is a long and slow journey, but the end product is worth all the work







.

Peace,


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Oh I also want to celebrate this amongst my peeps who can understand... that I think I've finally got DS to transition to coconut milk instead of his usual rice milk.

I was making it too thick. I just watered it down even more and he's not even noticing that it's different. Now it's 1 can of coconut milk and then the rest water and some honey for almost a half gallon jug. Rice milk is very thin, so he was used to that texture.

Which is good that I can water it down so much b/c as you know I"m being "illegal" b/c canned coconut milk contains less than 1% of guar gum. But since it's way better than rice milk, that's what we are going with for now. Since we just weaned from bf'ing, he's really attached to his milk for the nap and bedtime struggle, uh, I mean routine.

Rice milk was the last thing preventing us from being 100% SCD. Okay so we are 99.99% SCD maybe?

Actually I was just reading SCD info that pastuerized honey can contain 1-3% sugars but it seemed to be tolerated fine and was allowed. That was the only instance I've read that a little illegal substance was deemed to be okay! Everything else like canned tomatoes products that could maybe possibly contain added sugar even though it's not on the label and such are forbidden.

Kinda makes you crazy. But I understand and believe in the concept of "fanatical adherance" if only not to prolong the agony of preventing healing. We've had enough of that. We actually use mostly raw honey, we have a beekeeper in our town. Raw honey contains enzymes which split the remaining sugars.

My current plan is to stick with SCD for a few weeks and then try dairy again. Then DS will move to milk made from 24 hr yogurt or dry curd cottage cheese (the formula recipe).

I'm nervous though about the dairy. But then again, all his reactions could have been just by products of his bacterial imbalance. Like for example, I thought I was reacting to nuts for the longest time. And I really am not... it was the grains preventing their digestion. I'm eating tons of nuts and no bloating whatsoever.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Jane - Congrats







! Have you given any thought to giving ds goat yoghurt or raw goat yoghurt instead of dairy yoghurt? Just a thought? I found Sierra started eating more when I switched her from dairy to goat. Of course, that could have also been about 10 other things kicking in :LOL . My poor little lab rat babe







.

Peace,


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

:LOL Moneca!!!! This is hysterical, we cross posted and I'm sharing my small victory just as you asked for them. Kinda creepy.

Ground lamb (free range) is our tip for the day b/c it's more easily digested than beef.
We also like lamb steaks done in crock pot with just water or broth and onions. We love salmon too, make sure it's wild. Fresh pineapple and avocado are loaded with enzymes, DS has always tolerated these very well.

Breakfast: Almond flour or banana pancakes or waffles (the Midas Gold recipe) or scrambled eggs. Fruit, usually banana b/c now he wakes up asking for one before he asks for me, but then he'll want (but not get) banana pancakes too









Lunch: Meat, veggies, fruit

Snack: fruit and/or almond bread or muffin with coconut butter depending if he didn't have any almond stuff for bfast. Also likes apple slices with almond butter. Tried peanut butter and it seemed okay but I'm limiting it.

Dinner: Meat or salmon, 2 veggies

It's kind of boring, I need to make more things from recipes... but he likes and tolerates a wide range of veggies. He loves cauliflower and broccoli for ex. Frozen peas and green beans. Butternut squash, but only if I puree it. Zucchini and summer squash sauteed in olive oil. I will be SO happy if I can give him dairy someday soon.

I'm not sure I'm being much help b/c it's such a plain menu right now. But his stools haven't changed, they are as firm as they have been so he seems to be doing well. He's eating a TON lately. Wonder if that means he feeling better. He's always been a good eater, the kid is 34 lbs. but he's sometimes eating more than me now!

One question....

Don't you think it's weird that he is doing fine on more fruit. He eats raw veggies like cucumber and even red/yellow pepper! And almond flour things too but well cooked carrots turn his usually firm stools mushy (with bits of carrot still in them, so obviously he's not digesting them.) Don't know what's different about carrots b/c I thought they were monosaccharides too.

I gotta get some of those Houston enzymes. Which reminds me, I think protease, the enzyme that digests proteins also kills probiotics, so they shouldn't be given with yogurt....have you seen anything about this?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mountainmon*
Jane - Congrats







! Have you given any thought to giving ds goat yoghurt or raw goat yoghurt instead of dairy yoghurt? Just a thought? I found Sierra started eating more when I switched her from dairy to goat. Of course, that could have also been about 10 other things kicking in :LOL . My poor little lab rat babe







.

Peace,

Yes, I will try goat before cow, sorry I didn't make that clear.

I want to be all SCD for a little while before that though, just to make sure he's reacting to dairy, if ... and not something else. Because he was tolerating a little raw cow's milk kefir before, but then mushy stools and the itchies appeared ... not sure if it was that or not b/c he's had both of those symptoms come and go without eating any dairy. So I surmised it really was the bacterial/yeast imbalance and not the allergy per se. But I haven't been ballsy enough to just go whole hog on the dairy and test my theory. It's soooooooooo frustrating sometimes. We'll find out soon though.

He's another lab rat for the cause!

I will say now at least he is weaned and I don't have my diet to worry about. Or be guilty about. But I am doing SCD now for myself.

But since we've weaned he's still had the ebb and flow in his reactions that I previously attributed to me and beat myself up over. So in a way, this has been nice to prove to myself I think I did more good than harm in continuing to bf.

I'm so chatty tonight


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starbarrett*
I suppose if it ain't broke don't fix it. :LOL

You really think that the medical community has done no further research on this line of healing and that there are no recent studies to reference? I imagine with what seems like a irritible bowel syndrome epidemic and all the controversy about autism that there has to be some recent research from the nutritional science community at least. It is sad that Drs refuse to heal via nutrition. Everybody wants a magic pill. I have two aunts and two cousins who are dibilitated by digestive disorders. They've been battling them for years, going to drs. Never once have they heard of SCD.









The autism community is awesome to read about info on kids and leaky guts...they really are on the front lines there. Elaine Gottschall has spoken at several DAN conferences and many practioners put their patients on SCD when they start chelation.

I think many doctors don't study nutrition, and it's viewed as inconsequential and "less of a specialty". It doesn't pay to recommend food like it does a drug. You should send your relatives the book! Or at least they should read the reviews at Amazon.com, those can convince a skeptic to give it a try.

But also, people are weak.... it's flippin' HARD to do a really specialized diet in this society, especially if drs say it doesn't make a difference.

I will admit that if I didn't have DS's problems to deal with, if his health wasn't so intimately connected to my health through bf'ing, I probably wouldn't have done half the things I did in the past year and half for just myself.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Oh and as far as recent nutritional research... not that I know of. That is why I'm so excited about the SCD. It really seems like the only diet of it's kind, designed to heal the gut with a clear purpose and theory behind it. Besides the many anti candida diets of course, but they all disagree.

The Body Ecology Diet is also designed to heal the gut but it doesn't have the benefit of clinical testing. It makes many good points but seems to be cobbled together without a cohesive theory IMO... it's WAY more restrictive than SCD too. Moneca mentioned The Maker's Diet too, I haven't read that one yet. I'd love to find more!


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Wow! Jane you are going for a record number of posts in a row :LOL . Sierra does not digest carrots. I've had thoughts that this could be due to the high fiber content







. Hmmm. I've never heard of protease killing the good beasties. Very glad you mentioned it since I've been adding the Zyme Prime to all her yoghurt bottles







. Never fails that just when I think I'm getting this diet down







... I never stop learning







.

Peace,


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

Hi, my name is Liane and I have a 5mo old dd.
I just read through this thread and I feel so depressed and hopeless (I haven't gotten to all the articles yet, though). Around 3 mo baby's poops changed to green, sometimes watery and stringy with mucous. She also got a rash on her cheeks, and a red ring on her bum. She doesn't have good bf poops anymore, and I feel like I am poisoning her every time I nurse her.









I've tried to cut out dairy for about 2 weeks now, and it is easy to tell that when I have any dairy like cheese or butter (?) here bum gets bright red and her poops get more watery.

I've started giving her Baby Jarrow with some water, but now I am reading that it might be bad for her! I think she has some yeast too, but I don't know what to do about that. I started grinding flax seeds for me but this might be bad too.

I talked to my NP but she said to wait a month before doing any allergy tests just to see if it's only dairy. I don't think she is getting better, and it seems like she reacts to things but I am not sure what it is that she is reacting to.

I should not have had a baby, I didn't know she would have alllergies so little--what if it just gets worse and worse?

So much conflicting advice, and now I am wondering about this diet that has seemed to help all of you--

Anyway, just wanted to thank you for starting this thread and I'll keep reading and maybe get some ideas on what do to next.


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

First of all, Liane ... Hugs to you Mama!







Stick with the dairy elimination for a while to see if that helps ... it might take a while. Also, there are many probiotics out there to choose from, and I'm sure we all can give you suggestions. Personally I like L. Reuteri. You can just dab your finger in it and then have your dd suck your finger. Just keep hanging out here and asking questions ... these mamas rock!

Well, we are on day 6 of the Maker's Diet and I'm really pleased thus far. Personally I have more energy and I'm almost past the carb craving stage.







My older son (4) is starting to like homemade yogurt.







And my younger son (1 1/2) is starting to get better poopies. My biggest concern is getting my dh's gut healed ... he has battled IBS symptoms for years. The book is fantastic to read and has really convinced my dh and I that we need to dramatically cut the toxins from our lives. It's really cool to hear my dh say that he's worried about all the chemicals in our house.

I have been getting a little more creative with lunch and dinner. The boys love eggs (what's the difference between regular eggs and omega-3 eggs? are the chickens raised differently?), and we have those a few times a week. I also make chicken breasts at lunch and serve them with veggies or fruit. Dinner has been fun and dh thinks I'm getting more "gourmet"







. The other night I made "tacos" but rolled everything in lettuce leaves. That was fun. My hope now is to slowly integrate more organic meats/produce into our diet ... money is a factor there though. We do have a farmer's market here that I want to frequent.

But I am loving the Maker's Diet and feel so right about doing it.







I think the people around me though are going to get sick of me talking about it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
Hi, my name is Liane and I have a 5mo old dd.
I just read through this thread and I feel so depressed and hopeless (I haven't gotten to all the articles yet, though). Around 3 mo baby's poops changed to green, sometimes watery and stringy with mucous. She also got a rash on her cheeks, and a red ring on her bum. She doesn't have good bf poops anymore, and I feel like I am poisoning her every time I nurse her.









I've tried to cut out dairy for about 2 weeks now, and it is easy to tell that when I have any dairy like cheese or butter (?) here bum gets bright red and her poops get more watery.

I've started giving her Baby Jarrow with some water, but now I am reading that it might be bad for her! I think she has some yeast too, but I don't know what to do about that. I started grinding flax seeds for me but this might be bad too.

I talked to my NP but she said to wait a month before doing any allergy tests just to see if it's only dairy. I don't think she is getting better, and it seems like she reacts to things but I am not sure what it is that she is reacting to.

I should not have had a baby, I didn't know she would have alllergies so little--what if it just gets worse and worse?

So much conflicting advice, and now I am wondering about this diet that has seemed to help all of you--

Anyway, just wanted to thank you for starting this thread and I'll keep reading and maybe get some ideas on what do to next.









I can say I know EXACTLY how you feel.









The despair when you feel like you are "poisoning" your baby, yup, BTDT.

But I'm here to tell you that it is possible to bf AND heal your child (and yourself) at the same time. True, we are not 100% done, but we have come such a long way from the initial days of DS with his bright red face, scratching himself bloody, and full of gas.

And Moneca and Sierra's experience can tell you if you did stop bf'ing, it will probably not just be the end of any problems.

Keep reading, we will be here for you.

The red ring is definately a intestinal imbalance, sounds exactly like our experience.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Omega 3 eggs are from chickens which are fed flax oil, usually, to boost their.

The best eggs are from chickens which are free range and not fed grains (like meat too). Eating bugs actually give their eggs omega 3 like nature intended.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/orga...arth072805.cfm

It might be worth it to find a local source, I have found 3 farms within a half hours drive of us... and we also can get eggs thru our dairy co-op.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Liane







-
I remember those days of feeling like I should not have had a baby when she no longer smiled and vomited so much. Everything was overwhelming and I felt like dd was never going to get well. The more I read the more depressed I became. Reading about leaky gut syndrome is SO frightening







.
Don't stop breastfeeding!!! Breastmilk is very healing to the gut. Your babe is so little right now that the best thing to do is to ingest foods and supplements for your babe. If I may suggest a few things... Do you feel like you could make homemade yoghurt or would that put you over the edge right now? You can make it out of coconut milk or almond milk. You could try goat milk, but 90% of kids who have problems with cow milk also have problems with goat milk. You can make it pretty cheaply and get many more good bacteria than you could in an expensive supplement. I would be more than glad to talk you through it. If you have a juicer that is an excellent way to get vitamins and minerals from your veggies (esp. carrot, kale, and spinach) although it is still important to eat the veggies too. There is hope







. Let me know how I can help







.

Mylittlewonders - Yeah







so glad to hear the good news. Please continue to keep us posted







. Thanks for sharing your good news. Stories of encouragement are important. I posted Sierra's story once she was on the road to wellness to thank many people, but also to encourage mamas with sick babes. Stories of healing give hope. I would think anybody could heal after reading Jordan Rubin's story .

Peace,


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Sorry it took so long to reply, moneca. I don't have internet at my house. Selkie's allergies are: pineapple, oats, wheat, rice, lentils, peas, carrots, banana, cashews, avacado, tomato, sesame, plum, coconut (so no kefir) and I'm missing two, but can't think right now. It was pretty bad, because I started the SCD with good intentions, but both kiddos went NUTS. I thought it was die-off, but they were eating scrambled eggs (which selkie can have but quillian cannot) muffins with cashew butter and banana, avacado, tomatoes, and cooked carrots. Plus we were using alot of coconut oil (and Selkie will just eat it off a spoon-oops.) So we need to seriously revamp things. I made muffins with almond butter and pureed apple-they were okay, but not as good. What's a good substitution for banana? I think I'll try squash next. Also, what can I use instead of eggs so BOTH kids can eat it? Egg replacer is tapioca based and neither can have any grain product. This is such a drag. I am going to see my ND, but he isn't back until next week! AAAAAARGH!


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## starbarrett (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
But also, people are weak.... it's flippin' HARD to do a really specialized diet in this society, especially if drs say it doesn't make a difference.

It's so true. Especially as many people (I'm thinking of my relatives right now) have digestion issues due to the fact that they won't or can't cook and therefore end up eating all processed and manufactured foods. Try telling someone who lives on lean cuisine & burger king that they need to start making their own yogurt!!









Actually, my aunts were so excited at the possiblity of being healed that both sound willing to give it a go.







One aunt just happened to have gotten tested for Celiac disease when I arrived at her house with the BTVC book. Talk about perfect timing. I can't wait to tell my friend whose 15mo has ezcema and a dairy allergy about the diet and your experiences.

I just have to say how cool is the internet that it provided a forum for this conversation to take place, and then made the conversation available for others like me to read and learn from. I love the internet. (Sorry had to geek out for a moment







)

Thanks, mountainmom for the instructions for making yogurt without a yogurt maker. I can't wait to give it a try. Do you put lids on the quart jars while they're in the water? Also, I've noticed that the commercial yogurts all taste so different-- Nancy's is tart, Brown Cow creamy. Have you discovered in your experimenting things that effect the flavor of the yogurt?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elisabeth*
Sorry it took so long to reply, moneca. I don't have internet at my house. Selkie's allergies are: pineapple, oats, wheat, rice, lentils, peas, carrots, banana, cashews, avacado, tomato, sesame, plum, coconut (so no kefir) and I'm missing two, but can't think right now. It was pretty bad, because I started the SCD with good intentions, but both kiddos went NUTS. I thought it was die-off, but they were eating scrambled eggs (which selkie can have but quillian cannot) muffins with cashew butter and banana, avacado, tomatoes, and cooked carrots. Plus we were using alot of coconut oil (and Selkie will just eat it off a spoon-oops.) So we need to seriously revamp things. I made muffins with almond butter and pureed apple-they were okay, but not as good. What's a good substitution for banana? I think I'll try squash next. Also, what can I use instead of eggs so BOTH kids can eat it? Egg replacer is tapioca based and neither can have any grain product. This is such a drag. I am going to see my ND, but he isn't back until next week! AAAAAARGH!









Oy Mama. That's a tall order.
I would suggest pureed pear as a substitute for banana in recipes b/c it's sweet. Or maybe applesauce, I make in crockpot, that's the easiest way. Just put 1/2 water and as many apples as you want. Cook until tender. Add honey or cinnamon if you want. You could probably do the same for 'pear sauce'.

Egg replacer and egg free baked goods ideas here:
http://www.pecanbread.com/recipes.html

How did you determine all of these allergies? (and please forgive me if you posted this before, I couldn't find it)

The reason I ask is that I know there are several families of allergens that are frequently talked about - Phenols, Salicylates and Latex (banana, avocado). Might be worth it to see if they are fitting into a catagory.

Some info here http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionsensitivities.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starbarrett*
Actually, my aunts were so excited at the possiblity of being healed that both sound willing to give it a go.







One aunt just happened to have gotten tested for Celiac disease when I arrived at her house with the BTVC book. Talk about perfect timing. I can't wait to tell my friend whose 15mo has ezcema and a dairy allergy about the diet and your experiences.

I just have to say how cool is the internet that it provided a forum for this conversation to take place, and then made the conversation available for others like me to read and learn from. I love the internet. (Sorry had to geek out for a moment







)

Yay! re: your aunt. The thing is that the SCD claims to be a cure for it. This is incredible and not really fully accepted in the celiac community/medical establishment. If you are dx as a celiac according to them, you have to avoid gluten for the rest of your life.

:LOL I have a special fondness for geeks... I married one!

I thought of you when I saw this page re: research on diet therapy for many different medical issues.
http://www.feingold.org/research-pg.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Interesting Allergy Library:
(also has info on salicylates and latex allergies)
http://www.allergyclinic.co.nz/physician.html


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

So, I looked for (and found) some almond flour at Wild Oats tonight but man is it expensive (I bought it anyway because I am making banana pancakes in the AM). So, do you all have a good source for buying it that isn't $13/pound?


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

MyLittleWonders, JaneS, and mountainmon, thank you for your words of sympathy and encouragement. I'll keep reading here and on the other threads about making yogurt, and see what I can do--I would love to be able to eat yogurt again! After we use up the Baby Jarrow I'll look into some of the probiotics that you all use, like the L. Reuteri.

Q for all of you experts, where can I get coconut milk? The only coconut milk I know of is in a can, and that is so different from the coconut milk I used to drink out of the coconut. Is the almond milk from the box ok? Like the ones that rice and soy milk are sold in?

I've been keeping track of her rash and what I eat, today her cheeks were a 2 on a scale of 1-5, 5 being bad so it was a good day today.







we also made it through the whole day without the red ring. I am going to stay away from eggs as that seems to help a little.

Reading about some of your successes is so encouraging, everything somehow seems less bleak, although I know it is going to take a long time to heal my baby.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Mountainmon, thanks for the encouragement and advice. Dd was exclusively bf when her poops changed and I knew it was wrong but couldn't get anyone to agree.
Testing her for dysbiosis is an idea. I'll have to think more about it. I know that her absorption must not be as bad as Selkie's. The last time her iron levels were tested they were almost back to normal. I actually give her the floravital iron plus herbs because it's yeast and gluten free. I've been taking the iron with her and it really helps with me being so tired. I found out last month from my mom that I was always anemic as a child, so it makes me wonder if I just didn't pass along good iron stores to her. Of course, she also didn't really start solids til 12 months.
I've actually been thinking of taking her to a doctor in Tallahassee my mil recommends. He does colon hydrotherapy and iridology and will do it on babies. He feels that it will help heal the gut and help to give space for the good guys to colonize. Dh is against it though. What I've read about colonics seems to make sense, but I've tried so many things that haven't worked. And most of them out of pocket.
Right now I'm kind of down because she has the red anus ring again. She hasn't had that in ages. And her eczema is starting to reappear on her knee and tops of feet. She was held by my neighbor tonight for a while. Dd is allergic to dogs and my neighbor has dogs. That could be the eczema. As far as the red ring, the only new things she's had was an evening primrose oil capsule squeezed in her oatmeal and later gerber diced pears. Sorry, just needed to vent.
This weekend I will make the time to read pecanbread.com and the scd website. Maybe I'll get the book from the library again and read the diet part more closely.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Deborah


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders*
So, I looked for (and found) some almond flour at Wild Oats tonight but man is it expensive (I bought it anyway because I am making banana pancakes in the AM). So, do you all have a good source for buying it that isn't $13/pound?

I really like the flour from http://digestivewellness.com/, it is very fine, ground like real flour and is $6.50/lb if you buy 5lbs. (Keep in refrigerator or freezer for long term storage.) The Bob's Red Mill at my Whole Foods is $11.99/lb and is grainy, like coarse cornmeal.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*To the Mamas of the "Bullseye Red Rash Babies":*

Don't think in terms of ... "We ate something today that caused this rash."

It is a systemic yeast/bacterial imbalance that is causing this.

Meaning that it builds up. It's not likely that Deborah's sweetie-pie is "allergic" to oatmeal and pears....it's that the instestinal flora are overrun with yeast and bad bacteria.

At least that is the SCD explanation.
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i..._the_diet2.htm

And is mirrored by our experience. It's why my little guy can seem to tolerate new additions to his diet for a little while and then not. I drove my naturopath insane with this when on the testing phase of the Elimination Diet... we saw no reactions with anything (because his gut was better at the time). Then poof, huge breakout. It was because the bad yeast/bacteria in the intestine were winning again, after being in submission for a while.
The naturopath kept insisting it must have been an allergy to this, or that, or did I put pepper on his roast chicken. Drove myself nuts too trying to track every single little thing!

I had to find the SCD explanation of "allergies" on my own and it requires a shift in thinking, but it totally makes the most sense to me now. Maybe it's not the case for every food intolerance, but I'm most certain it is with the yeast rash around anus or mucus in stool. The book explains more about how the intestinal function is damaged so as to not be able to break down food.

I've seen this in myself too. I didn't see reactions at first in myself. Like the "testing the wheat" day. No problem even after a day of binging. But when I added bread back into my diet, after a week, I was in pain with gas and bloating again and then I had to start again from square one and heal again. Which is how I learned cheating is not worth the several weeks it takes to recover.

Then when I read about the SCD explanation, it all came into perspective and made sense that it wasn't one particular food allergy.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
Q for all of you experts, where can I get coconut milk? The only coconut milk I know of is in a can, and that is so different from the coconut milk I used to drink out of the coconut. Is the almond milk from the box ok? Like the ones that rice and soy milk are sold in?

You can find coconuts at health food stores and Asian market for coconut water. The Body Ecology Diet uses that to make a probiotic drink called Coconut Kefir:
http://www.bodyecologydiet.com/coconutkefir.php

We are using canned organic coconut milk for DS now. Thai Foods or Native Forest brand. I get the full fat milk and dilute it one can of milk and the rest water about 3/4 full for my half gallon jug. Then it's watery like rice milk, what my DS was used to. Add a bit of honey to sweeten it (well okay a lot of honey now so he'll like it, it's been a bit of a struggle).

RE: almond milk
It depends on your definition of "ok".








Ok as in tastes good? or ok as in good for an Elimination Diet or is it SCD legal?

The almond milk in a box has cane sugar or rice syrup sweetener added so SCD theory is that it would be food for yeast. You can make your own by whizzing blanched almonds in a blender with water. Then draining out the solids through cheesecloth or very fine strainer (can use the residue as almond flour) and then adding honey.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

See links at very bottom of page...
http://www.giprohealth.com/starter.html

research review articles on:

Immunologic Effects of Yogurt

Yogurt and Gut Function

Yogurt Influences Intestinal Health

*Moneca,*
I was considering getting this yogurt starter from GIProHealth b/c it was recommended on PecanBread and it is dairy free, which the Yogourmet is not. But the GIProHealth has l. casei instead of l. acidophilus? What do you think? I thought SCD only recommended acidophilus, bulgarius and thermophilus. I know the casei is supposed to be excellent as a "helper" probiotic, it's what's in Culturelle and studied extensively.


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## starbarrett (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I thought of you when I saw this page re: research on diet therapy for many different medical issues.
http://www.feingold.org/research-pg.html

Great link! Thanks!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
The thing is that the SCD claims to be a cure for it.This is incredible and not really fully accepted in the celiac community/medical establishment. If you are dx as a celiac according to them, you have to avoid gluten for the rest of your life.

It's possible that she will always be gluten sensitive, even after her gut is healed, but just eliminating gluten hasn't made her feel any better. Besides, every "incurable disease" I've ever had, I've healed through nutrition. The body has an incredible ability to regenerate and rebound-- even after being put through the ringer.


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## starbarrett (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
I've actually been thinking of taking her to a doctor in Tallahassee my mil recommends. He does colon hydrotherapy and iridology and will do it on babies. He feels that it will help heal the gut and help to give space for the good guys to colonize. Dh is against it though. What I've read about colonics seems to make sense, but I've tried so many things that haven't worked. And most of them out of pocket.

Deborah-- I'm all for colon hydrotherapy and iridology. I think it really does help, especially for more extreme problems that would take a long time to solve through diet alone. I think it's helped me with heavy metal toxicity. But it's a very invasive procedure and it seems like it would be emotionally traumatizing to a baby. I have a friend whose mother tried to give her an enema when she was 2, and just listening to her you can tell how traumatizing the memory still is to her. Just something to consider.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Jane - As I remember, Elaine's biggest concern about the types of beasties had more to do with whether they were "community minded" or not. her biggest beef was with bifidus strains. Give it a try and let me know







.

To all - When you get discouraged and overwhelmed you may want to pick up a copy of the Maker's Diet from the library and photocopy the pages where Jordan Rubin discribes his condition. Probably all of chapters 1 and 2. I truly cannot believe he is alive. If his body can heal completely (which it has) then anyone's can. It is tough when it is your babe and you're limited in so many ways by "allergies and sensitivities". The only way I know to make these babes better is through healing their guts. It is a long hard road, but worth it.

Elisabeth - Good for not giving up, but looking for ways around the new obstacles instead







. You're such a good mama. I would suggest going to www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info and clicking on the "legal/illegal" food list. Write down EVERYTHING that ds and dd can have on the legal list. Sit back and see if you can make a diet of it. It will be hard, but I know you can do it







. I can tell that you're very determined every time I've talked to you on the phone. Don't let the extent of Selkie's digetion and absorbtion issues overwhelm you. I promise that Sierra is in the same boat. Her vomiting has stopped, but we still have a long path to walk to achieve gut healing. I'm here for you and you're not alone. You CAN do this!!!









Not to minimize any mama's struggles with a babe who suffers from eczema or diarrhea, but when your sweet one isn't gaining weight, digesting, absorbing, or thriving in general it is particularly frightening. If you feel that no one can help you and you're alone it is enough to make the best mama







. It is a nightmare. I was uprooted from the part of the country that I called home (the west) and transplanted to NYC 1 mo before dd started vomiting. Honestly, I ended up on an antidepressant and an antianxiety med due to the stress and panic. I don't want any mama to feel that she is alone on this journey like I did. That was the worst part.

Amber - I'm glad to hear that you also believe in the body's ability to heal if given the proper nutrients. Glad to have you aboard. Do you mind sharing some of thd things you've been healed of through using foods and natural remedies? Some mamas might find encouragement from your story.

Deborah - I know very little about colonics, but my concern would also be that it may traumatize your precious one.

I just received my kefir grains in the mail today from another mama. This is not allowed on the SCD, but is encouraged on MD. THe kefir is for DH and I in addition to our yoghurt. I'm excited to start drinking the delightful concoction again. I'll post on this thread in a few months if my good grainies have multiplied to the point where I can share







.

Peace to all and don't give up hope,


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## RiceMomma (Jul 23, 2004)

You wise wise mommas!

I printed off all the legal/illegal foods, then just typed up a list of everything my dd could eat- this looks pretty doable for us. I need to find coconut milk, thought. And she can still have cheese- thank goodness.

Okay, questions. WHY does this happen? How do I prevent this from happening to my other children? DD wasn't always like this, just the past 18 months. And how will I know that she is getting better? Is it reasonable to hope for some sign of results in a month's time?


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
Q for all of you experts, where can I get coconut milk? The only coconut milk I know of is in a can, and that is so different from the coconut milk I used to drink out of the coconut. Is the almond milk from the box ok? Like the ones that rice and soy milk are sold in?

Hi, PB& J, I see Jane already replied to your question... and yeah, like she inferred, coconut milk is not the same thing as coconut water, which you get from a fresh coconut. There are recipes on the internet for making coconut milk from the meat of fresh coconuts. I like using the coconut water for kefir, then scooping out the coconut meat and eating it. A lot of work but kind of fun. I used a chisel and a hammer to bust open the coconut after draining the milk out. There are instructions on the Body Ecology website about how to open and use a young coconut.

I heard your despair in one of your earlier posts. Jane has a great link to an article that says that all babies have "leaky guts" before 6 mo of age... but, as she says, not all moms have leaky guts. So, even though what you eat may be affecting your baby now, it likely won't do it forever, even if you continue breastfeeding. That seems to be what happened w/ my dd. She developed eczema at about 5 mo, she frequently had the red ring and occasional green mucousy poops. I started out by following my naturopath's advice and cut out dairy, eggs, and wheat for 2 weeks. It did not touch the ezcema. So then I did a strict elimination diet for about 8 weeks. At 4 wks into it, dd's face looked way, way better. I gave her and myself probiotics and Cod liver oil. Slowly I slipped back into my old ways of eating, but now, at a year old, her poops are normal even if I eat refined flour, sugar, chocolate, and dairy. She will still get the red ring if I overdo it. The ezcema is gone, except for the occasional slight redness if I really over do it. So don't despair! As others have said, keep your breastfeeding going. As a matter of fact, delay introducing solids, especially the rice cereal (which I think has no place in any baby's diet) until you get her symptoms under control.

I think the elimination diet helped me because I had "leaky gut" and eliminating all those foods that weren't being properly digested keep them from entering her "leaky gut" digestive system via the breastmilk.

My challenge now is to improve my diet without the ezcema to motivate me. But now dd is watching what I eat. I don't want to be sneaking my chocolate in the middle of the night while eating the "healthy" foods I'm giving to her during the day.

I consulted with a nutritionist yesterday. She gave me some hope as she said the SCD is really designed for people who have serious digestive issues and I don't have to be that restrictive to see improvement. Of course, that is just her opinion.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Ricemomma - I'm so glad to hear that making the list helped. It was the only thing I could think of that might help mamas with lots of "allergies". It does make things more difficult. I will continue to suggest this since it has helped. Good timing on the question. I was thinking of posting this microscopic puzzle that I keep solving piece by bloody piece. This may help you and other mamas. I use to blame everything on the vaccines, but I have now found that this was only a weak link that made the snowball a little bigger. I have never written this down, so please bear with me







.

Jane's story helped me to put the finishing touches on everything. You never know what you may learn from other mama's trials







.

I had signs of probable mercury toxicity back in 2000-2002. This consisted of migraines, then slurred speech and mixing the order of my words. Just months before Sierra was conceived I went on a bentonite/psyllium daily cleanse (a friend told me that this had turned her chiro's hair back to black from grey







: and this is why I started the bentonite







). Within 4 months of this daily routine the migraines and speech abnormalities went away. I just thought it was toxic overload from pesticides and everyday toxins in the air/soil/water at the time.
I had never been on steriods and had not had abx in 4 years when dd was born. Didn't have any during childbirth and dd has never had them. DD received vax through 6 mo







. She started with yeast under her chin, in her pits, and umbilicus at 4-5 mo. She was breastfed through 13 mo and did not have solids until 6 mo and then only organic. She was NEVER a good eater and always around the 5% on weight.
We had a 41 hr labor and were rearended by another car in an interstate pile up when she was about 4 mo (wow, did I have signs not to go to NYC). I have 7 amalgam fillings, played with liquid mercury once as a kid, had my vax in the 70s, and five more vax in the 90s for nursing school







!
Now that I've given all the details, this is what I believe transpired in dd's body :
**1.I have high levels of mercury in my body which damaged her immune system (although I hate to think of what she would be like if I had not done that detox before she was conceived. Thank God for that







:.

**2. I believe that the long labor and the car accident caused some subluxations ( her chiro found 3 - one severe at cervical level 1 and two other moderate ones at lumbar and sacral levels). These subluxations were at the right levels to have impinged the nerves to her gi system, particularly the nerves that innervate the lower esophogeal sphincter which keeps your stomach contents from coming back up if it is tight. Sierra tested negative for reflux, but I still think this nerve is damaged because she will still vomit if her stomach is very full during a difficult bowel movement.

**3. After she started to vomit last fall with bm and anything that caused increased gastric pressure (coughing), the gi started her on pepcid which in an antacid. I believe this decreased her gastric acid and worsened the dysbiosis that had already started. BTVC mentions the harm antacids can cause. It was shortly after starting the pepcid that she stopped smiling







. She was only on it for 2 weeks because I could see that her digestion was worsening and her gastric emptying was being prolonged. This spring we saw a different gi who put her on prevacid. Her stools started to smell even more putrid after being on this for two weeks and we saw the same increase of time for gastric emptying so we took her off it.

**4. I think the vax further impaired her immune system and God only knows what else it did







.

**5. Where would we be if I had not been taking omega 3 fish oil since the second trimester or had continued to vax?

I'm planning to get ALL my fillings removed in a couple weeks when dh is out of work again (







gotta love the film business) by a holistic dentist that uses the mercury removal protocol. It is expensive (220-350 per tooth, but I can't even think of getting prego with those mercury monsters in my mouth







). I started the bentonite/psyllium again and am on the Maker's diet (except for my daily Starbucks chai - a girl has to have one habit







). I'm getting raw milk to make yoghurt from this weekend as I think this is the final step that will promote digestion for all of us esp. dd. There is not a ton of literature and no research that I could find on bentonite as a chelator, but it worked so well for me before that I'm using it and will test levels after the fillings are out. Hope this all makes sense. Feel free to ask questions. Gotta run.

Peace,


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Greencat - I saw your post on water quality on the eczema thread of allergy. We only use spring water for dd - even to cook her veggies. The chlorine in tap water (which does not get filtered out by standard filters) kills the good bacteria we are trying so hard to populate our guts with. Trader Joes sells it for .69 per gallon.

Also wanted to let those with toothpaste eating kids like mine know about Weleda flouride free toothpaste. It is SCD legal. Glycerine is legal according to the BTVC site.

Peace,


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

The post on the water is interesting--I don't want to be making yogurt and then killing them off right away. My mom told me if I leave the water open on the counter overnight the chlorine evaporates. We use a Brita filter pitcher for our water. Is my mom way off? Is the chlorine still in there? I want to do what's best for baby, but I feel like I am going off the deep end and I have not even started anything yet!


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

Oh, another thought, I don't mind boiling water, would that get rid of the chlorine?


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Liane -
Might work. The only way to know for certain is to test it with a pool chem stick. I know that a few months back Gitti posted something about placing a 500mg vitamin C in the bath to remove the chlorine so that it would not soak into the skin. I tried it a few times with a cheapo vit C that I would never ingest. The pill disolved so slowly in the water that it wasn't worth it. I'd be curious to find out if it works. Mabey I'll order some pool chem sticks off the web just to satisfy my curiosity







. You're not off the deep end yet - from one who is







.

Peace,


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Oh, I almost forgot. I get to have a proud mama moment







. Sierra's movie opens this weekend. If you see the movie Junebug (small independent) she is the preacher's baby in the church social (potluck) scene. A friend of ours saw the movie at Sundance and said she got a closeup. The movie was shot when she was 6 mo and was still chunky by our standards. Thanks for letting me boast about my







.

Peace,


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mountainmon*
Liane -
Might work. The only way to know for certain is to test it with a pool chem stick. I know that a few months back Gitti posted something about placing a 500mg vitamin C in the bath to remove the chlorine so that it would not soak into the skin. I tried it a few times with a cheapo vit C that I would never ingest. The pill disolved so slowly in the water that it wasn't worth it. I'd be curious to find out if it works. Mabey I'll order some pool chem sticks off the web just to satisfy my curiosity







. You're not off the deep end yet - from one who is







.

Peace,

Cool, let me know if you do this, I am very interested to know if the chlorine evaporates. I know water is different in every city, but it would be neat to do a before and after test.


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## RiceMomma (Jul 23, 2004)

We found coconut milk yesterday in the whole foods/ethnic section of our supermarket. I watered it down and added honey, but DD loves her whole milk and isn't accepting it yet. She is a strong willed one, but once she realizes, that is all she's getting as far as milk goes, she'll get over it. We stocked up on cheese and fruits and veggies and pork rinds. So she's had pork rinds for breakfast. My husband is a bit sceptical, as always, and a little worried about her nutrition, but the child doesn't eat very much anyway, and the only big changes here is substituting coconut milk for cow's milk, and cutting out cereal and pretzels and pasta. Today I am going to find goat's milk at our health food store, I think I've seen some there.

Now, here's my next question: What starter do I use for the yogurt? I have commercail dannon yogurt in my fridge- acidophilus- is that alright? What buggies does she need in her gut?

Thanks so much for answering my questions.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I was considering getting this yogurt starter from GIProHealth b/c it was recommended on PecanBread and it is dairy free, which the Yogourmet is not. But the GIProHealth has l. casei instead of l. acidophilus? What do you think? I thought SCD only recommended acidophilus, bulgarius and thermophilus. I know the casei is supposed to be excellent as a "helper" probiotic, it's what's in Culturelle and studied extensively.

Ricemama -
This should answer your yoghurt starter questions. I currently use yoghurmet and Jane might try the GIProHealth. I buy my starter from www.juicersforless.com as it is only $3 per box of 3 envelopes (enough to make 6 liters). My local HF sells it for 4.25 per box.

Peace,


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

RiceMomma,
There's also a plain Dannon that SCD recommends just has the big 3 that I mentioned.
I know Stoneyfield has L. Reuteri, L. Casei plus Acidophilus and Bifidus and I was using that as a starter for a while until I read the SCD info and my head exploded.
Plus I want to do a non dairy one for DS ...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mountainmon*
Oh, I almost forgot. I get to have a proud mama moment







. Sierra's movie opens this weekend.

Too Cool! I will definately look for it!

Brooke Shields started young too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiceMomma*
I printed off all the legal/illegal foods, then just typed up a list of everything my dd could eat- this looks pretty doable for us. I need to find coconut milk, thought. And she can still have cheese- thank goodness.

Okay, questions. WHY does this happen? How do I prevent this from happening to my other children? DD wasn't always like this, just the past 18 months. And how will I know that she is getting better? Is it reasonable to hope for some sign of results in a month's time?

Ah the eternal question...WHY?

I have my theories...have you read our story?
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...d.php?t=260393

Moneca and I have been talking a lot about the common denominator of our mercury exposure. The recent fact I heard is that 1 in 6 women have dangerous levels of mercury in their body, enough to harm their fetuses. That's absolutely appalling and frightening and overwhelming. It took me a while to digest this information myself and then do something about it.

I think there are also a lot of other factors to the development of leaky gut: chlorine in water is definately one. You do absorb a lot just showering, and it kills the good bacteria on skin too. For a while I was having way too much fun doing water aerobics in the highly chlorinated YMCA pool, not anymore







: (and they don't have good yoga classes)

Also, the interesting fact about whole grains which are not soaked contains anti nutrients that I just posted on another thread, if they are not fully digested they ferment in the gut and are food for yeast/bad bacteria. How many of us eat whole wheat etc. thinking it's healthier?

Oh yeah and we all eat too much sugar (well I don't anymore).
Just too many grains in general that feed yeast.
And the low fat craze probably contributes too, not eating enough of the proper fats or eating trans fats.

Our vegetables and fruits are not farmed correctly and don't have beneficial bacteria on them to continue to support us.... as fermented foods and homemade yogurts with probiotics are not a part of most people's diets.

And antibiotics.
Birth control pills
Steriods.
Constipation.

Modern Life is the The Cause.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Wow this thread is becoming huge, it's awesome!









Hope we are not overwhelming readers ... I'm totally open to criticism of the SCD and talking about other ways of going about this FYI to any lurkers.

*Hey Moneca,* is that White Egret woman coming?


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Here is a link I found re: enzymes and probiotics

http://www.enzymestuff.com/dietsmeds.htm#3

Nothing too specific. I stopped Sierra's enzymes and I could tell that her digestion was pitiful because she vomited three days in a row with pooping. This shows me that she has started eating more in the last three weeks and her little system can't handle the increased amount yet on it's own. Oh, well. I'm still going to give her bedtime yoghurt without enzymes since she has all night to digest it. The article above wasn't convincing that protease kills all probiotics. I'll have to hope for the best until her gut heals some more.

Jane - I hope that Lee from White Egret will make it to this thread. I know that she is swamped. My order of raw goat yoghurt should be coming from them this week. I'll probably just save it for her nightime bottle in case the enzymes do kill the good guys.

Peace,


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Oh man my head just swims when I catch up on this thread.







There is such a wealth of info here and I wanted to thank you Mamas again for plowing the way!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Moneca,

It was the info on the Candex site that I first heard about protease and probiotics:
http://www.pureessencelabs.com/candex.php

I don't think you should stop all enzymes, just don't give them with the yogurt!


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Jane - :LOL I've actually read that before on the Candex site and forgot about it







. I hope that one day my brain recovers from this past year







.

I have a ton of info to share with everyone - it's been a very informative weekend







- just bear with me.

Along with BTVC, MD, and NT there are a few more books I'd like to suggest to the mamas who enjoy learning and doing research to better understand gut issues and healing. While I do believe that both the SCD and MD heal the gut, I think that the MD does so more quickly because of the use of organic raw foods that SCD does not incorp. The two additional books are Wild Fermentation by Sandor Katz (had to buy both of these, but they are wonderful resources that I've been highlighting







) and Juicing for Life by Calbom and Keane ( both have their MS in nutrition from Bastyr University in WA where my ND







went to school). I have found the Wild Fermentation just fascinating.

The following are all quotes from Wild Fermentation that I wanted to share :

"Fermentation also creates new nutrients. As they go through their life cycles, microbial cultures create B vitamins, including folic acid, riboflavin, niacin, thiamin, and biotin" Chapter 1

"Some ferments have been shown to function as antioxidants, scavenging cancer precursors known as "free radicals" from the cells of your body. Lactobacilli create omega-3 fatty acids(







wow, I had no clue







), essential for cell membrane and immune system function. The culturing process generates copious amounts of naturally occurring ingredients like superoxide dismustase, GTF chromium, detoxifying coumpunds like glutathione, phospholipids, digestive enzymes, and beta 1,3 glucans." Chapter 1

"Chlorine is used in water precisely because it kills microorganisms. If you can smell or taste the chlorine in tap water, either boil it to evaporate the chlorine before using the water for fermenting, or use water from another source." Chapter 4 (I think it was Liane that had posted a related question.)

"I like to use sea salt. It's fine to ferment with either sea salt or pickling salt, but don't use the standard supermarket table salt with added iodine and anti-caking agents. Iodine is antimicrobial, like chlorine and could inhibit fermentation" Chaper 4

For anyone in the Tennessee area : "Food for Life is a food skills, information, and politics gathering held every summer at the Sequatchie Valley Institute near Chattanooga, TN. There are various fermentation workshops and many other interesting topics. I highly recommend this event. It draws an eclectic crowd of activists, gardeners, and cooks. For information, you can contact S.V.I. at Route 1, Box 304, Whitwell, TN 37397, (423)949-5922, www.svionline.org" Chapter 6

www.enzymestuff.com Good site on enzymes. There is an area of the site called "studying stool" that might be helpful to the mamas of babes with digestion/absorbtion issues. You have to click on "related topics" at the top and then "studying stool" comes up on the left side at the bottom of the selection choices.

My kefir was so good with some raw honey and blueberries









I hope some of this helps. Enjoy the last few hours of your weekend! All of you inspire me to research and learn even more - thanks







!!!


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Thanks for the information Moneca! Do the benefits of fermentation occur even if you are only fermenting/culturing yogurt and kefir? I haven't ventured yet into the veggie fermenting realm yet as I'm not sure if any of us will like it.







I do want to get the NT book - the MD book has a few recipes in it - enough to get me interested in reading the whole NT book.

I read the link about studying stools, but have a more basic question I think: is it NOT normal to have undigested pieces of food in your stools? Both my boys, but ds#2 in particular (he's 20 months) often pass chunks of carrots (or corn, though we've eliminated that for now ... we are still in phase 1 of MD), or other food. I know he's still not the best chewer, but are undigested pieces of food a sign that his digestive tract still isn't functioning fully yet? He is starting to eat yogurt every night ... both boys love it ... and both I know have issues with yeast simply because they both had issues with thrush when younger and I know we only treated the symptoms but didn't do a good job at the time of getting rid of it.







: Ds#2 in particular had a nasty time getting rid of the thrush at about 2 months old. Even though the MD says that corn can be brought back in after the first two weeks, I'm wondering if we shouldn't just keep it out of our diets for now and instead bring in sprouted wheat flatbread (homemade). Hmm ... so many unknowns. I do know this: our diet and bodies are much better off now than they were before beginning the MD ... just the sheer elimination of processed foods and refined foods is amazing. (Interesting note: saturday after synagogue, we let our boys [basically only ds#1 - ds#2 was happy with some bread and cheese] have some "snacks" during the "fellowship" time ... later that day ds#1 complained of having a slight tummy ache. We told him that unfortunately that's what yucky food does to your system ... he had punch and a cookie *blech*. What's cute though, is now he'll say, I think I need some yogurt.







)


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:

My kefir was so good with some raw honey and blueberries










Moneca, this is just the way my kids love kefir best too. I also add some raw cream (cow) for an extra bit of fat.

In the summer when the kiddos are swimming just about every day, I make sure they drink as much kefir as I can get down them to offset the chlorine in the pool water.


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
Hi, my name is Liane and I have a 5mo old dd.
I just read through this thread and I feel so depressed and hopeless (I haven't gotten to all the articles yet, though). Around 3 mo baby's poops changed to green, sometimes watery and stringy with mucous. She also got a rash on her cheeks, and a red ring on her bum. She doesn't have good bf poops anymore, and I feel like I am poisoning her every time I nurse her.









I've tried to cut out dairy for about 2 weeks now, and it is easy to tell that when I have any dairy like cheese or butter (?) here bum gets bright red and her poops get more watery.

I've started giving her Baby Jarrow with some water, but now I am reading that it might be bad for her! I think she has some yeast too, but I don't know what to do about that. I started grinding flax seeds for me but this might be bad too.

I talked to my NP but she said to wait a month before doing any allergy tests just to see if it's only dairy. I don't think she is getting better, and it seems like she reacts to things but I am not sure what it is that she is reacting to.

I should not have had a baby, I didn't know she would have alllergies so little--what if it just gets worse and worse?

So much conflicting advice, and now I am wondering about this diet that has seemed to help all of you--

Anyway, just wanted to thank you for starting this thread and I'll keep reading and maybe get some ideas on what do to next.









Ha ha, sorry for quoting myself, but I wanted to make it easier for people to read. I've been off of dairy now for 3 weeks (trying very hard, but difficult to catch everything) and baby's poops are not green anymore. Her poop is still sometimes watery yellow with stringy mucous in it. The rash on her face is getting better, and does not turn bright red anymore (no eggs for us either). Occasionally the red bullseye rash comes back, it does not seem related to anything I am eating.

I'm trying to write down what I eat, and the condition of her poop and rash everyday, I'm going to ask my husband to make me an excel sheet so it's easier.

We're still doing Baby Jarrow and regular acidophilus for me (non-dairy). I stopped eating flax seed so now I know we are not getting any EFAs in our diet. I'm looking into cod liver oil or flax oil, so that will be starting soon as soon as I can figure out a good one (still reading old posts). Sometimes I put evening primrose oil on her face. Is it good for me to take this orally as well? I'm taking a prenatal prescribed by my NP too.

I did not think I had any reactions at all to food or had any yeast but today I discovered that I have a bullseye rash identical to my daughter's. Sorry if TMI, really really sorry. I don't know if I have had this before, I mean, how often do you look at your own bum? :LOL

I made some yogurt last night but the almond milk was a failure







(will try again) and the yogurt that turned out well was made from 2% and dry milk with regular yogurt from the store. I don't want to start eating this yogurt because I'm afraid her poop will turn green again in a week or two.

I am convinced yeast is at the root of our problems, and my digestive system (as well as my daughters) are a mess because of it. What else can I do to actively treat yeast? I am not eating any processed sugar or honey (but still eating fruit). I am also not eating bread. Should I stop eating oatmeal too? I'm putting some baking soda in our bath water too. I don't give baby a bath that often and only showers for me because of dry skin (lack of EFAs, I am thinking) so this is not something I can do everyday.

Anybody have any advice for us? sorry this is so long







:
Liane


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mountainmon*
"Fermentation also creates new nutrients. As they go through their life cycles, microbial cultures create B vitamins, including folic acid, riboflavin, niacin, thiamin, and biotin"

Which is why people with less than great intestinal flora should supplement with b vitamins b/c they are probably very deficient... your gut should be making b vitamins for you.

Quote:

superoxide dismustase
Very interesting, SD is a pain reliever. It actually is testing better than morphine (I'm the webmaster for a small pharmaceutical co. that is developing this for use during surgery instead of morphine which has lots of side effects).

Quote:

"don't use the standard supermarket table salt with added iodine and anti-caking agents. Iodine is antimicrobial, like chlorine and could inhibit fermentation"
Goodness gracious it's a wonder humans aren't extinct! So we can add iodine to our WHY list.








re: the stool page on Enzyme Stuff, I was JUST going to post that yesterday and got waylaid by something else. I think we have ESP.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Liane,
I will have some ideas for you, but need to come back another time.

:LOL re: your TMI
I was watching bad TV several months ago and one of the plastic surgery shows had a segment on "anal bleaching"... apparently porn stars get it so they will look perfect!









So it might not be a rash. Maybe someone with strong digestion will contort themselves and look in a mirror for the cause of scientific evalution!!!















:


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Jane - My friend, you get slap happy







when you post so late in the night







.

For those of you using raw cheese with the SCD - I found out that it must be aged for at least 30 days to convert the lactose and be SCD "legal". All the raw cheese I've seen at the HF store has been aged 60 days.

For those of you who are juicing (these are my main veggies for juicing) :

Nutrient Information from Juicing For Life

Carrot







- E, beta-carotene, zinc, iron, copper, selenium, manganese, potassium, niacin, B6

Kale







: - B6, beta-carotene, folic acid, C, pantothenic acid, sulfur, B2 (riboflavin), folate

Beet tops - folic acid, iron, manganese, magnesium, calcium

Spinach - B complex (except 12), E, chromium, magnesium, potassium, coenzyme Q 10, beta-carotene, folic acid, K, C, B6, iron, calcium, manganese

Remember to ALWAYS dilute 50:50 for kiddos.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Mylittlewonders - Wonderful to hear that all is going so well. You will get benefits from yoghurt and kefir. Making the veggies later would be a plus, but not necessary. Take it a day at a time or you will get overwhelmed. Wait until this is second nature before adding something new to your plate. The undigested corn and carrots could be either related to digestion or lack of adequate chewing. I think that MD related a story about a 15th or 16th century monarch who cured his bowel issues by chewing all his food 35 - 50 times. This is a huge area of struggle for me since I would be more than happy to not chew my food at all if it tastes good. I'm currently trying to improve. Somewhere between 30 - 40% of digestion occurs in the mouth with digestive enzymes released by the salivary glands IF food is adequately chewed. Try telling that to my 19 mo old who chews as well as I do







. Sprouted grains are much more easily digested than whole corn and that might be a good option until their little guts are healed. See what they'll eat







.

Liane - Good job finding a way to help DD







. Each child is so unique and you've been a wonderful mama to make an effort to find what works best for her. I'm glad that you're already seeing some improvements. It will encourage you to keep seeking... Carlson very finest fish oil is the product that DH and I have used for the last 2+ years. I think Jane may use the same brand. There are no detectable levels of contaminants. I buy a 32 oz. bottle for around $40. You can find better prices. I just order directly from the company - I need to find a better deal







. You might try sprouted grain products for yourself. They are easily digestible. I use Food For Life Ezekiel 4:9 tortillas. The only way to truly heal the gut is through SCD or MD IMO. You have to determine your level of digestive impairment. If it is slight you may be able to get away with cleaning up your diet, but you may have to make more drastic changes. You will know before long.

Peace and happy healing,


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Moneca,
Which juicer do you have, do you like it? I know nothing about juicing. Does it use all the veggie or is there some fiber left over that you discard?

and really how does all this stuff taste? do you mix with an apple or something?

I can't imagine getting DS to drink it He turned his nose up at my carrot soup with homemade chicken stock.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
I've been off of dairy now for 3 weeks (trying very hard, but difficult to catch everything) and baby's poops are not green anymore. Her poop is still sometimes watery yellow with stringy mucous in it. The rash on her face is getting better, and does not turn bright red anymore (no eggs for us either). Occasionally the red bullseye rash comes back, it does not seem related to anything I am eating.

I'm trying to write down what I eat, and the condition of her poop and rash everyday, I'm going to ask my husband to make me an excel sheet so it's easier.

We're still doing Baby Jarrow and regular acidophilus for me (non-dairy). I stopped eating flax seed so now I know we are not getting any EFAs in our diet. I'm looking into cod liver oil or flax oil, so that will be starting soon as soon as I can figure out a good one (still reading old posts). Sometimes I put evening primrose oil on her face. Is it good for me to take this orally as well? I'm taking a prenatal prescribed by my NP too.

I always come across mamas who post and say that eliminating dairy cleared their babe's skin right up. And became jealous b/c that was never the case for us, but I do think dairy was a culprit. And still might be for DS, I truly cannot tell for certain.

The interesting thing to me is that I (and DS while bf'ing and starting solids) got better on a standard Elmination Diet with lots of rice. Of course no dairy eggs or sugar or nuts or fish, etc, etc... Then gradually the yeast problems came back and I could never pinpoint one specific food.

There are a number of anti yeast diets of which SCD is one.
The food lists at www.wholeapproach.com are very comprehensive for a more traditional anti yeast diet.
Whether or not you continue eating grains should be determined how well you do on them. Absolutely no sugar. I did get better eating a little honey initially, and then I found out through the SCD principles that honey is fully absorbed in the small intestine and usually does not end up being food for the yeast in the large intestine. However, undigested grains pass through to the large intestine and wreak havoc by fermenting and feeding the yeast/bad bacteria.

SCD science here, explains more about why the diet is structured to avoid all grains, rice, corn and potatoes et al http://www.pecanbread.com/scdscience.html

I am better than I was, but still so sensitive to grains if I eat more than one serving a day. Eating a lot of fruit and some honey hasn't bothered me a bit so that is why I'm sticking with SCD for the time being b/c it's working for me.

You should eat as much fat as you want: olive oil, coconut oil, avocado, cod liver oil (from my reading I have found that cod liver oil is superior to fish oil... Nordic Naturals peach flavor is excellent. But I have used Carlson's as well, both companies are rigorously tested for purity.)
These fats are antibacterial and antifungal and are also excellent for bf'ing mothers, especially the coconut oil.

She will absorb the evening primrose oil through her skin. But if you take it she will also get soem through your milk too. It's safe. It is excellent for you to temper prostagladins in the body (menstrual pain for ex.) I take it for my bladder and surprisingly noticed I NEVER have AF cramps anymore.

www.Culturelle.com is a very good probiotic, albeit expensive, but might be worth it if it is taking you a while to get your yogurt going. It's at drugstores like CVS. Walgreen's will order it for you in a couple days. My naturopath highly recommends it and we saw improvements on it, both DS and I.

I think Baby Jarrow might be okay for her for the time being since she still is exclusively nursing... the author of the SCD criticizes bifidus for taking over: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...kb/bifidus.htm

I saw improvement with DS on BJ , but then he stalled. And then we did the stool test, he was 4+ for bifidus, no acidophilus and 4+ for several pathogenic bacteria. So I think that the info about bifidus might be right.

DS is on legal acidophilus pills right now until I get a non dairy yogurt going. I'm going to try the raw cashew yogurt on Pecanbread.com and will let you know how it goes.


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Moneca,
Which juicer do you have, do you like it? I know nothing about juicing. Does it use all the veggie or is there some fiber left over that you discard?

and really how does all this stuff taste? do you mix with an apple or something?

I can't imagine getting DS to drink it He turned his nose up at my carrot soup with homemade chicken stock.

Not Moneca, but I do a fair amount of juicing a lot when DH and I are on the Primal Diet (we have fallen off the wagon at the moment














. We have the Green Life Juicer, the Green Star is also excellent. They are pricey at just under $500 (I think -- we bought ours four years ago).

You do discard the fibre, but raw veggie juice is a fantastic way to get your vitamins, much, much better than any pill!

I add a tsp of raw (unheated) honey with the juice to preserve it. I make a large batch and store it in 16 ounce mason jars, you need to make sure the mason jar is full to the top so than as little air as possible is left. This way, the juice will keep for up to three days in the fridge. We normally drink 8 oz at a time and I transfer the remainder into 8 oz mason jars.

My kids will not drink the green veggie juice I make, (celery, parsley with pineapple), but will drink carrot/apple/celery. Young children don't need to consume much raw veggie juice. Once a week would be sufficient.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

If I remember correctly







, Culturelle has dairy in it. That is why I never put DD on it. Might not be enough to cause a problem.

Whatever juicer you buy, make sure you get a twin gear model. It will not overheat. Heating of the gears can kill the enzymes which defeats half the purpose of giving fresh juice. Different sources give different info on the number of hours that juice can be kept in the fridge. The best option is to drink immediately before any oxidation can begin. The enzymes are stable for a longer period if the juicer is a twin gear or masher as opposed to a cntrifuge model. All the info I have read states that it can be kept for up to three days in the fridge, but the amount of vitamins and enzymes is questionable as time passes. We just make ours every night and drink immediately. I make a seperate couple oz. for Sierra during the day whenever she is ready. Yes, there is a lot of fiber left in your discard pan. If we weren't renting I would gladly add it to a compost bin. I paid $400.00 for a Samson model that I love. I bought from www.Juicersforless.com
With juicing, the vitamins are easily assimilated into the bloodstream without any digestion needed. If you read MD he discusses juicing to a point. The first couple of times that I tried carrot juice I thought I would bring it back up. I now love the 16oz. that I drink every night. I always keep the carrots in the fridge so that the juice is nice and cold. Sierra loves it. She gets 2 oz of juice mixed with equal amount of spring water everyday for two reasons. First, carrot juice is healing to the gut. Second, I don't know how well she is absorbing vitamins. This way I know she is getting some of them. I just give her plain carrot since she will not drink it with add ins. I always mix a couple kale leaves in and sometimes others. I tried wheatgrass for a while, but the flats of grass were $18 each







! Check out some books on juicing from the library before you invest in a juicer. Be sure this is for you.









Peace,


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Okay, so what do you all know about healing our guts and headaches? Tonight I got a huge headache after dinner - the only thing different was that we had sprouted corn tortillas (very yummy). I'm wondering if we brought those in too quickly (first grain we've had) ... OHHHH I just remembered. We also had bagels/cream cheese/strawberry jam with my dad this morning. OY, I think that might be it. So, can a still-healing gut really react so badly to something that you get a raging headache? (As a testament, my boys have been watching TV since about 6:30pm because I don't want to do anything







:.)


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## RiceMomma (Jul 23, 2004)

Are any of you doing the wholeapproach diet? I wonder about the sugar in the fruit in SCD. (Although wholeapproach looks a bit more challenging without fruit and cheese for my little one.) Curious about what others have experienced.

Thanks for the thoughts on the "eternal question." It's so curious to me that only one of my children are like this (eczema on entire body and food allergies). I would hate to see something like this happen to another one.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Hi all, new here.
My dd and I both need healing - I attributed our problems initially to dairy intolerance, but now am convinced candida is the trouble. I took dd, and myself because she's nursing, off milk and the rash on her thigh that she's had since September almost completely cleared up. I should also mention here that we _almost_ always prepare our foods according to NT type fashion when we're at home. So, we went to my mom and dad's for a week and were eating a lot of processed foods, although they at least buy a lot of organic when we come now (but it's still processed) and I accidentally ate some bread with milk in it and a couple of other things that contained dairy while we were there. Her rash flared up again. I was also feeling very worn out after a week there, as I always do until I get home and get back on track with my food prep again.
So, we get home, go dairy free, but the rash doesn't disappear. In fact, it's now spread to her other leg and there's a bit at the top of her vulva and around her anus. I started researching a bit more and have come to the conclusion that she must have a candida rash. When we were at my parents, she tried teething cookies (organic, but with a lot of organic sugar), and other organic "treats" we never buy at home (including boxed cereal). In my research I also concluded that I must have a systemic problem as well (probably this is where hers came from). I had never considered it before, even though I know that if I'm not pretty meticulous about food prep I feel lethargic, because I've only ever had one yeast infection in my life! But I was also on the pill for almost 10 years, have been on antibiotics frequently since birth, been diagnosed with IBS, lactose intolerance, etc, so now I'm thinking it just makes sense. If I eat grains which have not been soaked or sprouted I feel bloated and gassy. If I or dd eat processed dairy products we feel sick. Raw cheddar is fine though. So is yogurt. (for me - she still could be allergic but now I'm thinking it was a coincidence - that it was actually the sugar and grains that have been causing her troubles all along).
So my big plan at the moment is actually to follow the "healthy recovery" diet plan in "Eat Fat Lose Fat" by Mary Enig and Sally Fallon, which includes a lot of lactofermented foods and drinks - which I really don't eat or drink enough of (thankfully, dd LOVES lactofermented gingerale, as long as I let it become uncarbonated), and is safe for pregnant and nursing women (I'm currently 15 weeks pg). I plan on following it using coconut milk in place of dairy for 2 weeks (in case she is sensitive), and goat milk cheese instead of cow's milk, then using raw milk (I finally found some) for a further two weeks. If that fails, we'll have to try a no-grain diet, but it is so difficult to feed an 18 month old who wants to eat *constantly* without being able to grab some homemade rice crackers or the NT soaked wheat crackers I always keep on hand. Actually, I think if it doesn't help, I may check out that SCD website.
Oh, I also wanted to recommend another very interesting book (I just got it). It's called "The Fourfold Path to Healing" http://www.newtrendspublishing.com/4Fold/index.html , and it's by Thomas Cowan (with some stuff by Sally Fallon and Jaime McMillan). It's very interesting - integrating anthroposophy, homeopathy, Weston Price-based nutrition, etc. All philosophies I've come to embrace separately, so it's really cool to see someone else integrate them.
Well, I think that's it, that's our story. Hopefully I'll have some time in the near future to read through the threads and glean some ideas from those of you who have been there or are currently going through this.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

HertheElde -







Welcome! Glad to have you join the tribe. Sounds like you're on the right path and grains may very well have to come out. hopefully you'll be able to heal your gut so this won't pass on the your next babe. Good timing. I will try to get this book from the library. I always find at least one thing in a book to incorp. into Sierra's diet







. Keep us posted!!!

Peace,


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

Hi HerthElde! I hope you have good luck on your diet, we are dealing with the same type of yeast problems (although not so severe yet). I really think our situation is going to continue to worsen if I do not make some drastic changes in our diet and eating lifestyle.

JaneS, thanks for all the input! I've been reading a lot on the SCD website and I think I am going to get the book. I put a ISO in the TP, but if that doesn't work out I'll just buy it. I am number 6 on the holds list at the library!!!

Only 1 more month off dairy for us and we'll see how that goes, we have another appointment with our NP then so I can ask her what we should do next. Obviously cutting out dairy is not the only thing that can help heal our guts. Baby's poops are no longer green, thank goodness. I was so worried for a while but it is obvious she does better off the dairy. You don't know how happy I was to see yellow, curdy sweet smelling bmilk poop in the potty!

Too funny about the porn stars, if I was a porn star I guess I would want my butt to look as good as possible as well!


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Mylittlewonders - Sorry. I don't have a clue







about the headaches.

Ricemama - The fruit and honey contain fructose which is a monsaccharide. This is immed. absorbed without much digestion so even an impaired system will take care of the fructose and not leave any partially digested particles for the small intestine/lg. intestine and the bacteria/yeast that dwell within. It is a very different concept for those who are well versed in "candida diets". Have you read BTVC? I think you will have a better understanding if you read the book. I love that any library carries it







.

Peace,


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Just wanted to share my experience with White Egret Farms. I bought 12 bottles (8oz) of their probiogurt yoghurt. It is cultured for 30 hours. It is composed of raw organic goat milk and culture - nothing else. I have not yet found raw org. goat milk so I decided to give this a try. They will not disclose all the bacterial cultures that are in the product as they have come up with the specific recipe. They do inform the consumer that different types of lactobacillus are in the mix. There is no bifidus or thermophilus. I thought this would be safe since it was cultured for 30 hours and did not contain bifidus. The owner was very pleasant and informative on the phone when I placed the order. The amount of probioghurt that I ordered was the smallest available and cost $20 and an extra $20 for shipping. The product came in a styrofoam container with 4 good size ice packs and a cardboard box around the styrofoam. When I received the product - I grabbed it immediately upon delivery - the product and ice packs were warm and without any condensation which told me that it had been that way for a bit







. I called the business immed. as I was concerned to receive a warm raw product and left a message with the answering service. Four days later I had still received no communication







. Sierra did not do well on the product and the bottles were labled with " a virtually lactose free product". Elaine was so correct when she said that there was NO cheating allowed. I'm sure it is a wonderful product for the MD if you live close enough to pick it up (Austin). Just wanted to warn everyone about the shipping problem. I can't believe I paid $20 for shipping that delivered a warm raw product







: .

Best,


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Drat Moneca!

Although I'd rather a warm raw product than a warm pasteurized one b/c raw has enzymes et al that just keep growing in warm temps... the pasteurized milk rots. But of course little Sierra Bear's tummy is the ultimate arbiter, is she okay?

*Down With Carrots*
















I take great issue with carrots being one of first foods on the Intro part of SCD.

My DS cannot even handle them steamed within an inch of their life (meaning very very soft) AND then pureed. I've been trying some just steamed and cut into chunks and he has been not fully digesting them. Then I tried pureeing them and he ate a ton... and his normally firm stool was mushy and orangey and hasn't been the same since. Don't know why this is... his stool has been firm eating our formerly regular diet of lots of rice, rice pasta and rice milk, which of course are not allowed on SCD.

He's been really cranky and not sleeping well too.







:

Why am I not ordering those Houston Enzymes already









I guess I thought he would just be getting better and better, that miracles would happen once we finally eliminated rice milk. Didn't plan for a set back.


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## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

Hi








I am just joining in this thread now (just saw it tonight) so I haven't read all the previous pages.
I have seen some of your posts on the Allergies forum.

Jane, sorry about the carrots!
Bean was also reactive to carrots when she was reactive.

I found that every food we fed her was a food she was reactive to.
Not sure how to explain it, but basically, her body was fighting the gluten (in my opinion, gluten was her main culprit) and in that fight it started fighting all the foods she was eating.
She showed reactive to carrots, melon, lentils (the only bean I cooked for her!) and a handful of her other staple foods.

The body continued this confusion and started attacking her blood cells, causing her full body petechia rashes for a 2 month time period, which TOTALLY freaked me out (docotr saying things like...it's probably not leukemia, but we may need to check for lupus...)

All this from food!

I have posted her story, most of it, and I'll get to posting it here soon too.
I also have her story coming out in one of the next Living Without issues. It will be a shortened version, but anything to get the info out there, right?!

I'm glad to see that you all are finding support!









Oh, and one thing we found with the SCDiet was this:
Before she went on the SCDiet she was free of about 16 foods, inlcuding gluten, dairy, eggs, corn, carrots, lentils, melons, soy, and others.
She was highly reactive and any of those foods would trigger diarrhea as would any large amount (or small amount) of sugars or starches.
She was SO REACTIVE we were ALWAYS trying to figure out what it was, each day.
Never ending!

After starting the SCDiet she stopped being reactive. She stopped getting diarrhea for unknown reasons and then we started adding in some of those foods like carrots, eggs, small amounts of soy and corn, and NO REACTION AT ALL!
She even had dairy once by accident and had no reaction!

So, I think the SCDiet is great, but I didn't do the stages of entry. I just did it my own way by eliminating starches, sugars, and also using enzymes and probiotics.
It worked so well









My daughter was diagnosed autistic shortly before we tried this and after only a few weeks on the SCDiet her autistic symptoms melted away. Totally gone and it was like a switch was flipped.
It has been 7 months now and I think it's all behind us. She is healed.
No setbacks in months!










So, after all we've been through (and it was bad) now we just avoid gluten and dairy and eat a healthy produce dominated diet.
Life is good and there is hope and there is healing!

And as a side note, my own battle wtih psorisis/exzema started when I was 14 years old and was getting worse each year. After eliminating gluten it has totally stopped. Nothing I had ever tried before had helped in the least.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
You don't know how happy I was to see yellow, curdy sweet smelling bmilk poop in the potty!

Ooooooh yes I do!








YAY!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaLa*
My daughter was diagnosed autistic shortly before we tried this and after only a few weeks on the SCDiet her autistic symptoms melted away. Totally gone and it was like a switch was flipped.
It has been 7 months now and I think it's all behind us. She is healed.
No setbacks in months!

This gives me chills! Bean's story is amazing and inspirational and it's WAY cool that it is going to be in "Living Without". It is such a testimony to the whole theory of SCD is that it heals naturally and allows the body to work the way it's supposed to. I'm so excited you are here!









There is a form of eczema that is connected to gluten intolance... called dermatitis herpetiformis.

I think I just have to back up and go very slowly with DS on a very limited diet of my own design. Ugh, yet another batch of food lists from hell.









Which enzymes do (did) you use?

Do you make non dairy yogurt? If so I want to know all about it.









I'm sure I'll have 500 more questions for you tomorrow


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Laura - Thanks so much for sharing Bean's story with the "tribe". I'm such an idiot to have not thought of you sooner







. It is amazing to me the different ways that an injured gut will manifest "allergies". Like Bean, Sierra's list of foods that caused vomiting was a mile long and daunting to say the least. We started the SCD - not even the intro initially - and her vomiting went away on the first day. I did not realize that Bean had such a sim. dramatic change in "allergy" symptoms. Thanks







again for sharing!

Jane - We've had set backs this week too so you're not alone - mostly from me thinking I could buck the system







. Took her off enzymes and then tried the probiogurt for three days. She quit eating again and I was back to bribing her to eat. Thank goodness I figured it out. I'm picking up some raw goat milk tomorrow (an hour away) to make her yoghurt. At least I found some. I joined WAP foundation and will be picking it up in Manhattan once my membership check clears. I'm with you in the "isn't this ever going to end?" feeling for the day. If I would stop trying new "illegal" products to speed up gut healing the poor little bear would probably heal much faster







: . Patience has never been even close to a virtue for this mama







.


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## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

Jane, no we never did the homemade yogurts. I was interested in kefir water from goats milk culture, but I couldn't find anyone who had some to share.

We used american health brand and some metegenics stuff from the chiropractor as well as one other I forget. Basically, I just jumped at the first things I saw that were free of gluten, dairy, yeast, soy, artifical colors etc...
Not sure if they helped or not, but we did do it, so worth mentioning!

Bean's Full Story - post

here is the link to the full story for anyone interested in more details. You may need to break it into segments..>I get long winded about this stuff!
LOL


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

OK so I read the SCD book. And I talked to a homeopath. Here's the thing. DS is BARELY 10 months old!

and here's the other thing....apparently *I WAS RIGHT* I have had this intuition all along that if he'd NEVER been supplemented as a newborn, NONE of this would have happened!! (score one more for mama, not the LC who said it was 'so little it didn't count' well......mostly formula the first few days, then a bottle a day till about 2 months when I FINALLY made supply meet demand with all the pumping...only to end up getting dang food poisoning and well, never catching up again...)

OK so here's what the homeopath wants

--no more Nutramigen. Either Good Start or goat's milk.
My concern? Goat milk has no iron, GS is well, back to something more like cow milk...which is where this problem STARTED.
I haven't followed that rec yet partly because I couldn't find a small container of liquid goat milk just to try it.

--veggies only, very limited fruit, especially till he's off Nutramigen, and no fruit right before a meal--fruit is a snack or dessert only, and preferably only a snack.
No concerns there, been doing that. She wanted this for 2 weeks.

--after 2 weeks of fruit, then grains, but no bread, because we think the problem is yeast. (I had nonstop yeast infections while pregnant.) Brown rice, whole grains.

--then add meats after another 2 weeks, so he'd be about 11 months.

She called my mom the other day in response to a call I'd placed asking about another couple foods and gave my mom a list of things he COULD have including fish and eggs, and go sparingly on any white potatoes, tomatoes, and kidney beans.

The fish and eggs concern me because he is under a year old. I thought you weren't supposed to give a baby fish till age 2???? confused??

Then SCD concerns me because of all the emphasis on nuts, honey, eggs, dairy..........he is UNDER AGE ONE. Even if he did NOT have gut problems, I wouldn't be giving him eggs, honey, nuts, and dairy products at his age!!! Meanwhile, it seems so restrictive on only certain dried beans, making your own yogurt.....

And to top it all off, I TOO HAVE BEEN GIVING BABY JARRO!!!!!!!! Do you mean I've been making his problem WORSE?!?!?! Oh help!

Also, does anyone know anything about an herbal remedy (at least that's what *I* would call it) called Digestazon? Homeopath recommended it. can't tell what it's doing, haven't seen the bad side.

and the last question, I promise-----is it just his age that would be why I see little pieces of carrot in his poop?? He only has 2 teeth. I didn't see this with pureed baby food, only now that I give him actual pieces he can pick up and chew. (It's not that I dissect LOL, but I started using cloth so I have to wash it out, and well, orange gets your attention....I haven't noticed anything else, but it could well be because it wouldn't 'stick out' like orange does...)


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## kayabrink (Apr 19, 2005)

Hi all, new here...
I initially posted this in allergies, and was directed to this thread
I've been reading alot recently about the SCD and have a few questions
for you scd gurus.
I have removed all dairy from my son's diet, in an attempt to eliminate
his nearly constant diahorrea (sp?), with lots of improvement, but
still not perfect. My fault because I'm still getting some dairy, and he's
bf so that may be why.
Are you of the opinion that ALL food allergies are a result of leaky
gut? Would you try the SCD in my case? If I do it, how soon should I see
improvement? Other than digestion issues, he doesn't have behavioural
pbs, other than frequent night waking (like half the toddlers on this
board :LOL )
Also; is the SCD forever? Or would he eventually be able to eat small
amounts of dairy, or grain?
Would I have to do the diet too? Weaning isn't an option right now, can
you continue to bf on the scd or not?
How do you know when to progress from one stage of the diet to the
next? Just briefly, because I'm going to order the book if I find that ds
might benefit.
Also; ds continues to grow in height, but has put on no weight since 1
yr- he's now 21 months. I'm not too concerned about this, he looks
healthy and is meeting all 'milestones', but might this be a manifestation
of leaky gut?
Or am I imagining things, this seems WAY too minor compared to the
stories of leaky gut I've read.
Thanks for all your advice, I'll be








:


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Hi Zakers mama,

Some of the recommendations from the homeopath sound strange to me, but maybe some of the other mamas can comment as well. Your son is 10 mo old... are you still bfing? If so, why does he need any other milk or formula???

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*

OK so here's what the homeopath wants

--no more Nutramigen. Either Good Start or goat's milk.
My concern? Goat milk has no iron, GS is well, back to something more like cow milk...which is where this problem STARTED.

Just the other day I saw a nutritional analysis of a homemade baby formula posted on the mothering forum... maybe in the nutrition section... I can't find it, but you may want to check out this "answer" from one of Mothering's experts:

http://www.mothering.com/sections/experts/palmer-archive.html#goat's-milk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
--veggies only, very limited fruit, especially till he's off Nutramigen, and no fruit right before a meal--fruit is a snack or dessert only, and preferably only a snack.

This makes sense if yeast is an issue-fruit shouldn't be mixed with fat or protein, I think because fat and protein are harder to digest and therefore, the fruit in the sugar also may not be digested as rapidly as it would be if eaten alone, also see http://www.wholeapproach.com/diet/digestion.html
look at "food combining don'ts"

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
--after 2 weeks of fruit, then grains, but no bread, because we think the problem is yeast. (I had nonstop yeast infections while pregnant.) Brown rice, whole grains.

This seems strange-adding in grains-- because grains are the hardest things to digest. I heard babies don't have the enzymes to properly digest grains until they are 2--this is what a mom friend of mine told me--does anyone have a reference for that?

There is a good list of when to give foods to babies who have food "allergies" http://www.hallpublications.com/title2_sample2.html

They suggest waiting til 12 mo to give fish and eggs.

It is common to see pieces of food in the baby's poop until they can chew properly and/or digest the food properly... I used to see undigested food in my dd's poop until recently.... I'd say right before she turned 12 mo old her poops started looking more solid and I didn't see food in them. I don't give her any grains, just meat, fruits, and veggies- and breastmilk! Also, see Jane's post on carrots!

What are the symptoms your ds has?


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

I just checked out the recipes at Whole Approach, a site devoted to those with yeast problems... I thought several sounded really interesting-like French Toast made from eggplant!!!!

http://wholeapproachforums.com/6/ubb...5&f=2536011311

Stevia is used in a lot of the recipes, but perhaps they could be converted to make them SCD legal!


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

My biggest regret with him is not having the right support to initiate bf'ing, spending 6 months tied to a pump, and then giving that up in the interest of giving my child time and attention.

In my OP, you'll see he was supplemented from birth, and I feel that's how this all started.

That's basically what she said about fruit, that it should be eaten alone, or AFTER the meal. (I do give him a TINY amount--bite or 2--of mashed banana or applesauce with his probiotics mixed in, AFTER he's eaten the rest of his meal. The only other fruit he has is at breakfast, and *occasionally* as a snack...if he's around others who are eating, he wants to eat too, so we'll have a little banana or something.)

Homeopath said grains at close to a year are OK, but NOT at 6 months when most people do them. She said what she would recommend for people starting solids is orange veggies for a month, then green veggies a month, then fruit, then grains a month, and meats last because they are hardest to chew and digest. She said people should NOT do the pureed-meat thing, babies just aren't ready for them before they can chew meat.

*I* would think the same thing applies to unprocessed grains. I know the sprouted-grain bread I bought makes harder toast than other bread, and really the only 'grain' a baby can manage to eat are super-processed things like infant cereal, cream of wheat, etc. I also know when I tried to feed DS brown rice at 7 or 7.5 mos, he didn't chew it yet and I found it looking like it had never been anywhere in his pants!

I did 'cheat' a little the other night at the Indian restaurant and gave him some rice and meat......he LOVED it. (He also had a bit of yogurt, and I think THAT would be what caused the diarrhea he had the day after.)

He has NO symptoms........as long as I keep him off dairy. When he made the switch to the hypoallergenic formula, he went from off-again, on again diarrhea to NORMAL stools that stayed that way through the addition of a variety of fruits and veggies.

The most frustrating thing to me is, I have always been so careful what I give him!! and then there's people like my friend (who's mainstream all the way) feeding her baby who's 10 days older than mine CORN DOGS AND PIZZA and he seems to be perfectly FINE WITH THAT.
Not that I WOULD feed my INFANT a corn dog or pizza, but I WOULD like to be able to say, let him have a bit of chicken dipped in the yogurt sauce at the Indian restaurant without him getting sick!!

I read Jane's post on carrots after I'd posted wondering about DS. With him though, I really think it's more of a two-teeth chewing thing, as the poop is otherwise solid, just happens to have carrot bits in it. Unless of course that shouldn't be happening anyway.......I wouldn't know, my only other experience with kids is working in a daycare, where again, they fed those kids anything and everything. That's what made me swear I'd never feed my under-2 or 3 y/o CORN, it DISGUSTED me all that CORN in those diapers!! I don't think ANY of those kids under age 2 and quite a few who were 2 as well actually DIGESTED any of it!! NASTY.

And the number of kids with behavior issues.....I work in a preschool now, and I have one little boy in mind who I think really could benefit from a serious diet overhaul. Child was nearly 4 at the end of this school year and hadn't potty-learned, I think in BIG part because this kid has NEVER had (that I've seen) what I'd call a *solid* poop. I started in March, the teacher told me it was a LOT worse before they suggested to his mom that maybe he was lactose-intolerant. I know he still got 'just a little' cheese and ice cream, and milk on cereal. The more I read, the more I think this kid too could benefit from a total ban on dairy and some investigation as to what's going on digestive-wise and work to fix that. I think too a *lot* of his aggressive behavior would disappear.....just an idea though, and the most I can do with it is mention it to the teacher.

He's far from the only one I've seen like that......another kid I'd had in daycare as a toddler and at 6-7, he too had behavior issues......another kid who I remember with 'weird poop.' (Not that I think about this all the time! just that those two kids in particular came to mind while I was reading and especially when I ran across things mentioning behavior problems caused by diet intolerances.....)

Back to the topic of my son, he doesn't have symptoms as long as he has absolutely no dairy in any form and no obvious soy.
When he does, he gets diarrhea. When he was younger, he'd also get colic-type symptoms.

I DO think something is going on with probably yeast. I think *I* have a yeast problem too. I NEVER had a yeast infection or anything before I got pregnant, while I was pregnant, I had one almost my ENTIRE PREGNANCY.
And this will be TMI, but I read another post here that mentioned it.........pre-pregnancy, I had discharge that required use of pantiliners too--nothing obviously 'yeast-y', but it was there, and now it's not. And apparently this is not 'typical' as a friend of mine I lived with for awhile asked me WHY I bought pantiliners all the time......I mean, OK, WHEN would you EVER discuss that with anyone to know it's not 'normal?' LOL

On another note, before I got pregnant, I also had a MAJOR MAJOR sinus problem. Somehow, curiously, it disappeared while I was pregnant, never to return so far. I mean, I was scheduled for the surgery and everything, then I found out about DS.







While that was going on, I went through courses of about EVERY antibiotic there IS--all your 'basics' and on up the list to Biaxin and a shot of something I don't even recall the name of other than I think it started with an 'R'. (My friend who's a nurse said Biaxin is a WAY STRONG one...she was kinda shocked they'd given me that.....I said well, I've also been on (litany of antibiotics). ) She informed me how unhealthy that is and that I'm a perfect candidate for some sort of major health thing I'll have to ask her the name of again that's basically caused by taking too many antibiotics.........

Yeah, I used to be REAL mainstream.........I think part of the reason my problem has disappeared is that I don't run to my phone and call the sinus dr every time I start getting stuffy anymore. I don't think 'oh, here we go again...'
I *have* had a couple incidents with sinus symptoms since DS was born-TWO in 10 months. This last one, yeah, I was pretty miserable. For about two days. Then guess what? IT WENT AWAY!!
makes me wonder how much of my problem was some horrible sinus thing and how much of it was self-fulfilling prophecy and making myself immune to typical remedies by overusing them....it would stand to reason that if you take Sudafed nearly every day, eventually it'll stop working for you....

Anyway now I'm MUCH better and I think it's got a lot to do with just letting my immune system do its thing....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
Hi Zakers mama,

Some of the recommendations from the homeopath sound strange to me, but maybe some of the other mamas can comment as well. Your son is 10 mo old... are you still bfing? If so, why does he need any other milk or formula???

Just the other day I saw a nutritional analysis of a homemade baby formula posted on the mothering forum... maybe in the nutrition section... I can't find it, but you may want to check out this "answer" from one of Mothering's experts:

http://www.mothering.com/sections/experts/palmer-archive.html#goat's-milk

This makes sense if yeast is an issue-fruit shouldn't be mixed with fat or protein, I think because fat and protein are harder to digest and therefore, the fruit in the sugar also may not be digested as rapidly as it would be if eaten alone, also see http://www.wholeapproach.com/diet/digestion.html
look at "food combining don'ts"

This seems strange-adding in grains-- because grains are the hardest things to digest. I heard babies don't have the enzymes to properly digest grains until they are 2--this is what a mom friend of mine told me--does anyone have a reference for that?

There is a good list of when to give foods to babies who have food "allergies" http://www.hallpublications.com/title2_sample2.html

They suggest waiting til 12 mo to give fish and eggs.

It is common to see pieces of food in the baby's poop until they can chew properly and/or digest the food properly... I used to see undigested food in my dd's poop until recently.... I'd say right before she turned 12 mo old her poops started looking more solid and I didn't see food in them. I don't give her any grains, just meat, fruits, and veggies- and breastmilk! Also, see Jane's post on carrots!

What are the symptoms your ds has?


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
his normally firm stool was mushy and orangey and hasn't been the same since.

Interesting - I noticed the same thing with dd's poop when she ate a bunch of cooked carrots the other night. It was almost totally orange. Are we sure that's not somewhat normal? Because a lot of these things happen to me too . . . although I'm figuring out how abnormal my digestion is - I've always been skinny (other than during my last pg), I eat a LOT (my so-called "fast metabolism" makes sense now - of course you can eat like a horse and not gain weight if it just passes straight through!), and have signs of nutrient depletion. Thankfully, preparing foods the NT way I've finally regained energy, but of course I'm frustrated that I can't "cheat" without feeling ill effects.

Does anyone have a reference to what *is* normal for stools?







How can I tell when we're really starting to digest things? Also, in the Fourfold Path to Healing he recommends going pretty much no-carb (no grain or sugar to be more precise - maybe no fruit I can't remember at the moment) for two weeks to begin healing with digestive issues (along with the most important thing - lactofermented veggies and drinks), but should I really be doing this during pregnancy? If I eat a lot of liver for my B vitamins, continue to use nutritional yeast and temporarily take a supplement will that be okay? Any thoughts? I'm not there yet because I want to do that other diet first to see how it goes, but I'd like to start thinking about it just in case.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HerthElde*
Interesting - I noticed the same thing with dd's poop when she ate a bunch of cooked carrots the other night. It was almost totally orange. Are we sure that's not somewhat normal? Because a lot of these things happen to me too . . . although I'm figuring out how abnormal my digestion is - I've always been skinny (other than during my last pg), I eat a LOT (my so-called "fast metabolism" makes sense now - of course you can eat like a horse and not gain weight if it just passes straight through!), and have signs of nutrient depletion. Thankfully, preparing foods the NT way I've finally regained energy, but of course I'm frustrated that I can't "cheat" without feeling ill effects.

Does anyone have a reference to what *is* normal for stools?







How can I tell when we're really starting to digest things?

I would like to know if the carrot thing is normal too as there were pieces of carrot in DS's poop after he ate them too, but he only has 2 teeth as well, so it might be normal because he can't chew them well.

What's NT?

And I would like to know what's 'normal' for stools too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
I would like to know if the carrot thing is normal too as there were pieces of carrot in DS's poop after he ate them too, but he only has 2 teeth as well, so it might be normal because he can't chew them well.

What's NT?

And I would like to know what's 'normal' for stools too.

Yes, lack of teeth and chewing definately effects digestion b/c as Moneca mentioned before, our salivary glands produce digestive enzymes to help break down food, especially carbs, before it even reaches the stomach.

Usually my DS's stool is completely digested, brown, firm and not offensive smelling even when eating a ton of different veggies, fruits, meats, rice, oatmeal etc. (um, kind of like an adults I guess). I think that is normal. I know when he is gassy and bits of veggies show up, it stinks to high heaven, and he gets hyper and itchy...he is having a reaction. This lasts for a while until his system gradually recovers again. It was during one of those periods when I had his stool tested and it came back 4+ for 3 different potentially pathogenic bacteria and no acidophilus. That's not normal and now we had the proof.

It was searching for why this was happening that Moneca mentioned the SCD and all the answers were there.

I would say if the stool is firm and not offensive smelling, bit of veggies undigested is normal depending on how young your babe is. Pediatricians would tell you that undigested food, smelly stool and diarrhea is normal up to elementary school or beyond. Of course they think cavities in baby teeth, tons of ear infections, ADHD, etc etc. are "normal" too and really those are the indications of poor nutrition that runs rampant in our modern world.

One of DS's friends who is 2 also was finally diagnosed with celiac disease... she alternated between severe diarrhea and constipation, wouldn't eat, had swollen belly. Several Peds said that was normal for many months and just px'd stool relaxants.

I don't think we know what "normal" is anymore b/c there are so many kids right now that aren't. You have to ask yourself if you think it's normal for your child, are they comfortable and happy.

NT is the book "Nourishing Traditions" based on the research of Weston Price regarding cooking for optimal nutrition and health using traditionally based foods. It is a must read... it's is half cookbook and half nutritional information and research.

http://www.mercola.com/2003/mar/8/no...traditions.htm
http://www.mercola.com/2001/jan/21/weston_price.htm
www.westonaprice.org


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
I just checked out the recipes at Whole Approach, a site devoted to those with yeast problems... I thought several sounded really interesting-like French Toast made from eggplant!!!!

http://wholeapproachforums.com/6/ubb...5&f=2536011311

Stevia is used in a lot of the recipes, but perhaps they could be converted to make them SCD legal!

The cauliflower pancakes look interesting... I'm trying to come up with interesting veggie side dishes to replace starches at meals. I also just saw a yummy recipe for baked puree of cauliflower/white bean/parmesan cheese at one of the SCD sites to replace mashed potatoes. (I really hope DS is not dairy allergic, hopefully test for sure in a month or two.)


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

So what does your child eat? Are you doing SCD or something else? It's just that I'll never get everyone to go along with SCD totally and there's so much I CAN'T do for him on that--like I am NOT giving my BABY nut flour!

I'd like to know how to treat this whole yeast thing but be a little more 'forgiving' than that diet is..........I think we BOTH have it and could benefit from being on the same diet. I guess my big thing though is I'm kinda a 'cheater' type, I LOVE indian food and a lot of it is rice, I love Chinese and again a lot of rice......................DS loves Indian too







I'd like to just be able to feed the baby! I hate feeling like I can't give him ANYTHING when we go somewhere! (of course then there's his dad who doesn't want to listen to anything and gave him yogurt the other day, I just decided to go with it and see what happened. He didn't get the severe tummy-ache type crying he had as a younger baby, but he did still get diarrhea.....which his dad thinks was the MANGO not the YOGURT.....arrrgghhhhh...........) I'm IN THIS ALONE here and that makes it that much more frustrating.

That all said, I could highly benefit I think too from a revamp of my own grain consumption habits........different and less.

I wouldn't feel so 'restricted' I guess if I could just make stuff and share it with my kid.

It's easier doing simple dairy-avoidance but I don't think that 'fixes' anything.

And since this is a big discussion on the yeast in both of us..........what's a GOOD probiotic supplement type thing for BOTH of us? I had baby Jarro but i accidentally left it out.....and then I read all the BAD stuff about that.....what's a GOOD one???


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Oh and regarding the Whole Approach site I notice they recommend FOS or chicolin. I totally believe the SCD warning against using FOS, I think that really hurt us.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HerthElde*
Interesting - I noticed the same thing with dd's poop when she ate a bunch of cooked carrots the other night. It was almost totally orange. Are we sure that's not somewhat normal? Because a lot of these things happen to me too . . . although I'm figuring out how abnormal my digestion is - I've always been skinny (other than during my last pg), I eat a LOT (my so-called "fast metabolism" makes sense now - of course you can eat like a horse and not gain weight if it just passes straight through!), and have signs of nutrient depletion. Thankfully, preparing foods the NT way I've finally regained energy, but of course I'm frustrated that I can't "cheat" without feeling ill effects.

You just answered your own question... the test about what is normal is "ill effects". It's definately not normal for adults to have discernible undigested food in their stool. And the whole premise of SCD for Crohn's, IBD, IBS etc is that what the body is unable to digest causes harm.

You might benefit from a stool analysis to have something tangible to refer to. I think you should try enzymes and hydrochloric acid supplements...I like the Betaine HCI tablets from Country Life, start with 1 a meal and go up to 2 or 3 for large meals. If it burns like acid indigestion, you've taken too much, but if you feel ok, you need the extra stomach acid.

I've noticed the same pattern with my own digestion... gassy, bloated, bits of veggies and fruit skin in my soft stool was at the height of my problems and now when I'm better, is the sign of a reaction.

I've cheated on vacation recently without hardly any ill effects (just some gas







) but went back to eating carefully when I got home b/c I knew if I continued, the balance in my intestines would go back to being bad. If you read the science behind the SCD it totally makes sense... your body might get better enough to handle a little cheating at some point in your journey when you start to feel better. But if the bad bacteria start to gain the upper hand again, you've tipped the scale way too far and it will take that much more time to get better again.

Quote:

Does anyone have a reference to what *is* normal for stools?







How can I tell when we're really starting to digest things? Also, in the Fourfold Path to Healing he recommends going pretty much no-carb (no grain or sugar to be more precise - maybe no fruit I can't remember at the moment) for two weeks to begin healing with digestive issues (along with the most important thing - lactofermented veggies and drinks), but should I really be doing this during pregnancy? If I eat a lot of liver for my B vitamins, continue to use nutritional yeast and temporarily take a supplement will that be okay? Any thoughts? I'm not there yet because I want to do that other diet first to see how it goes, but I'd like to start thinking about it just in case.
I wouldn't go no carb during pregnancy.

I react strongly to nutritional yeast, be careful with it.

Make sure the liver is organic and preferably pasture fed.

Which other diet? SCD? I think that would be fine during pregnancy b/c you can get plenty of carbs from fruit, veggies (esp. butternut squash and carrots) and honey.

I haven't seen references for normal adult stool patterns thus yet... maybe you could research and report back to us?


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

I guess what I'm a little unsure of when it comes to stuff like SCD is that not all methods of preparation are equal when it comes to grains. Grains are much more digestible when soaked or sprouted. Grains like rice which are low in phytates are more easily digestible when consumed with bone broths (gelatin). Same thing with health info on milk or meats. Raw milk should be listed in a totally different category than pasteurized. Fat from grassfed animals contains a lot of omega-3's while fat from grainfed contains none, so they should be viewed differently. Same with the meat - even the meat from a humanely slaughtered cow differs from the meat of a factory-farmed animal because of fear hormones present in the muscle meat of the factory-farmed animal. It just irks me that nutrition in our society takes such an "all things are equal" attitude, because it is very untrue. I think that's why I take issue with the results of so many nutrition studies - they don't factor in all the variables.
Anyway, my point is maybe it isn't a question of avoiding all these foods, but making sure they have a good origin and making sure they are prepared in the most easily digestible manner, yk? I don't know - I'm just so angry about the state of "food" in our society right now.
Oh, I had a revelation yesterday that I wanted to share with you all. Dd's rash coincided with starting on solid foods - restaurant solids no less







: We were on vacation for three weeks and she wanted some. I truly thought the food choices were healthy, but looking back I'm sure they were just as processed as stuff from a can. I feel terrible about it.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Make sure the liver is organic and preferably pasture fed.

Ah, but of course







Actually, I've started to eat a tiny bit raw (well, in a smoothie) about once a week and have noticed a difference in energy.

Quote:

Which other diet? SCD?
No, the "healthy recovery" diet in Eat Fat, Lose Fat by Enig and Fallon. It's not a weight loss diet but a healing diet, with a lot of daily lactofermented veggies and drinks. I'm looking forward to having my meals planned out for me for a while







Sometimes it's good not to have to think.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
So what does your child eat? Are you doing SCD or something else? It's just that I'll never get everyone to go along with SCD totally and there's so much I CAN'T do for him on that--like I am NOT giving my BABY nut flour!

I'd like to know how to treat this whole yeast thing but be a little more 'forgiving' than that diet is..........I think we BOTH have it and could benefit from being on the same diet. I guess my big thing though is I'm kinda a 'cheater' type, I LOVE indian food and a lot of it is rice, I love Chinese and again a lot of rice......................DS loves Indian too







I'd like to just be able to feed the baby! I hate feeling like I can't give him ANYTHING when we go somewhere! (of course then there's his dad who doesn't want to listen to anything and gave him yogurt the other day, I just decided to go with it and see what happened. He didn't get the severe tummy-ache type crying he had as a younger baby, but he did still get diarrhea.....which his dad thinks was the MANGO not the YOGURT.....arrrgghhhhh...........) I'm IN THIS ALONE here and that makes it that much more frustrating.

That all said, I could highly benefit I think too from a revamp of my own grain consumption habits........different and less.

I wouldn't feel so 'restricted' I guess if I could just make stuff and share it with my kid.

It's easier doing simple dairy-avoidance but I don't think that 'fixes' anything.

And since this is a big discussion on the yeast in both of us..........what's a GOOD probiotic supplement type thing for BOTH of us? I had baby Jarro but i accidentally left it out.....and then I read all the BAD stuff about that.....what's a GOOD one???

OMG I can't keep up with this thread today... :LOL
Still have some older messages I want to answer but I will do this one first...

DS is 100% SCD since we finally converted him from rice milk to coconut milk. He is still non dairy though, I just cannot tell if he allergic to that or not. We are limiting nut flour. He is 2..

I hear you re: cheating. It's so difficult, I know this. My DH has horrible eating habits, we are talking chips, soda, cookies, donuts, fries, etc. as a regular part of his diet. When we go out especially it's so HARD for me sometimes. But we have seen and lived through the difficult behavioral issues with DS when he isn't eating restrictively, so DH is on board with him at least. Most of the time. He just admitted he gave DS pretzels last weekend, which also probably tipped the balance in favor of DS's system rejecting carrots too.

Maybe if you forward some of the information you've been reading about to your DH he'll start to understand.

I did get better eating lots of rice on the Elimination Diet but then the problems gradually came back. It's your call... you may be able to conquer this without much trouble... or your problems could linger and get worse again. Since we are still in the lingering catagory, I'm not sure you should do as we have done! That's why we're on SCD now, to finally try to heal this for good. I didn't really understand digestion fully until now. I spent over a year going along with a Rotation Diet and my naturopath's view of "food allergies" which I now know are only part of the picture.

Try to find a probiotic with only acidophilus, or with thermophilus and bulgarus added too. Those are the only 3 recommended on SCD. Now I'm not saying ths is the last word on probiotics. All I know is that DS showed the exactly problem that SCD warns against using bifidus so I'm a believer right now. But of course I love my kefir still. The Body Ecology kefir powder starter rocks. I noticed a huge HUGE difference in my digestion when I started it and I've done great on it, so I will continue to use it myself.

We are using a non dairy acidophilus from Kirkman. But that is also grown on dairy but doesn't not contain dairy. The same as the issue with Culturelle that Moneca brought up...

Quote:

Does Culturelle® contain dairy?
The Lactobacillus GG strain in Culturelle® is grown on a whey-based media. In the cheese-making process, casein is the milk protein that precipitates to form the cheese curds (hence the phrase, "curds and whey"). After the Lactobacillus GG is grown on the whey-based media, the bacterial cells are washed and freeze-dried. To test for the presence of dairy proteins (casein and whey), Culturelle® has been submitted to FARRP, an internationally known food allergy research program for an enzyme-linked immuno sorbent assay (ELISA). The casein and whey content of Culturelle® is each less than 15 ppm. Some people can be allergic to these levels of protein.
I still would recommend this based on our experience. It has a lot of research behind it posted on their site. But take those last 2 sentances with a grain of salt. I'm kind of regretting taking DS off of it b/c he did do well on it. It's expensive but it works. It's not SCD recommended, it's L. Casei but that is known as a "community minded" probiotic as well.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HerthElde*
Ah, but of course







Actually, I've started to eat a tiny bit raw (well, in a smoothie) about once a week and have noticed a difference in energy.

No, the "healthy recovery" diet in Eat Fat, Lose Fat by Enig and Fallon. It's not a weight loss diet but a healing diet, with a lot of daily lactofermented veggies and drinks. I'm looking forward to having my meals planned out for me for a while







Sometimes it's good not to have to think.

Raw in a smoothie, that's a good idea!

OMG I'd love not to think too. Every single diet we've done has needed "modifications". Makes me insane.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HerthElde*
I guess what I'm a little unsure of when it comes to stuff like SCD is that not all methods of preparation are equal when it comes to grains. Grains are much more digestible when soaked or sprouted. Grains like rice which are low in phytates are more easily digestible when consumed with bone broths (gelatin). Same thing with health info on milk or meats. Raw milk should be listed in a totally different category than pasteurized. Fat from grassfed animals contains a lot of omega-3's while fat from grainfed contains none, so they should be viewed differently. Same with the meat - even the meat from a humanely slaughtered cow differs from the meat of a factory-farmed animal because of fear hormones present in the muscle meat of the factory-farmed animal. It just irks me that nutrition in our society takes such an "all things are equal" attitude, because it is very untrue. I think that's why I take issue with the results of so many nutrition studies - they don't factor in all the variables.
Anyway, my point is maybe it isn't a question of avoiding all these foods, but making sure they have a good origin and making sure they are prepared in the most easily digestible manner, yk? I don't know - I'm just so angry about the state of "food" in our society right now.
Oh, I had a revelation yesterday that I wanted to share with you all. Dd's rash coincided with starting on solid foods - restaurant solids no less







: We were on vacation for three weeks and she wanted some. I truly thought the food choices were healthy, but looking back I'm sure they were just as processed as stuff from a can. I feel terrible about it.

I think you are exactly right.

You've listed a lot of the issues I have with SCD as a whole... the information I've picked up from NT and WAPF.

I use raw milk for my kefir and DS seemed to do okay on a 1/4 cup a day. Then I freaked out and stopped it when he may have been reacting to something else.

I hear you re: the state of food knowledge, it's pathetic. What passes as nutrition in my mommy group is artificial vitamins and big words on a box of brightly colored crap. And if anything has fruit or milk added, well then it's health food!

I've grown so much since giving what I thought was great: organic brown rice cereal as DS's first food (which promptly started our whole eczema problem with him, he was fine just on breastmilk.)

This has been an exhausting journey but DS's health and mine too will ultimately will be better for it for the rest of our lives...otherwise I wouldn't have found things like NT. Cod liver oil. Eating mostly veggies and fruit instead of grains. Absolutely no processed food. Raw dairy, local farm eggs and pastured meats. It's a huge change, and I thought I was eating healthy before.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

Thanks for this thread!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Melanie,

Are those recs from a homeopath or a naturopath? Homeopathy is based on healing with specially prepared medicines that allow the body to heal itself.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Kayabrink and Zakersmama







welcome!

Hearthelde. I'm right there with you as far as the state of food in this society. I think that the question of allowing low phytate grains such as sprouted or soaked grains has to do with the severity of damage to the digestive system. For instance, my system could use some help. I feel wonderful and energetic without and symptoms of digestive problems. I keep all processed foods out of my diet (except for my daily chai :LOL ). I eat very little grains - only sprouted or soaked, 2 glasses of kefir, 1 cup of 24 hour yoghurt, 16 oz of carrot juice with kale, raw veggies and fruits, and only raw dairy & organic grassfed beef, buffalo, chicken, and wild alaskan salmon. I only eat raw nuts. This works well for me despite the daily Starbucks. DD's digestive system is so impaired that she has to be on the SCD until she heals and then I will keep her on an NT diet/maker's diet (well, not that much fat) with occasional cheating so that she can be a normal kid at birthday parties and such.

Kayabrink - Since dd never had diarrhea I'm going to leave most of your questions to Jane since she has experience with this. The most important thing I can suggest is to read BTVC so that you can make an informed decision whether this is for your DS. You can get it from the library if you don't want to buy the book. The diet is between 6 mo to 1 year for most depending on the severity of gut damage. This is a HEALING diet.

There are a lot of questions out there concerning whether or not the SCD must be done for dd and ds to get better. I can't answer those questions for you (I wish I could help out







). It is normal to want the easiest and least restrictive option. I went through this for 10 months and nothing worked as dd continued to get worse. For us the SCD was the only "healer" for dd. If there is something easier that you want to try I would suggest that you go for it. If you notice your babes digestion getting worse regardless of all your efforts then you might want to reconsider the SCD. I think that sometimes you have to travel down the path a bit as Jane and I did before you are willing to commit to such a drastic change. Everything is relative and whether you view the SCD as difficult or not depends on where the journey has taken you. After all of the CRAP we've been through, I was relieved to start the SCD. If you've only cut out dairy it may seem like a mountain instead of a molehill. Please share your journey as you go - we can all learn from each other







.

Peace,


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

I hear you re: the state of food knowledge, it's pathetic. What passes as nutrition in my mommy group is artificial vitamins and big words on a box of brightly colored crap. And if anything has fruit or milk added, well then it's health food! - JaneS

HEE HEE!! Sounds like most of my friends. Although, I must say that my mommie group in Brooklyn is so NOT like this. Well, two of the mamas are this way. The rest of the mamas do organic whole foods and extended BF .They have been questioning me to death regarding Sierra's healing diet. They are VERY interesed and supportive. This is one of the reasons that I want to start a Holistic Mom's group when I return to Denver. www.holisticmoms.org

Peace,


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Well, SHE says she is a homeopath.......she did recommend me a mix called Digestazon, but it's an herbal thing too, not the homeopathic stuff I saw at the same store. I wasn't given any 'homeopathic' ideas. Just the diet.

I can't GET raw dairy here!!!!!!!! The closest I have found anywhere is a brand of milk called Farmer's something, organic and non homogenized but it is pasturized.

I CAN get grass fed beef, lamb, organic chicken, good eggs, all the 'right' stuff that way.

And if you only do 'raw' dairy, what about cheese??

Do you think I would see improvement for BOTH of us limiting our bread intake to sprouted-grain only, grass-fed, humane-slaughter meat only (which I do as much as I can anyway) and more fruits, veggies, that kind of thing rather than grains, pasta, stuff like that??'

OK I just don't WANNA give up tortillas and such FOR YEARS........

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Melanie,

Are those recs from a homeopath or a naturopath? Homeopathy is based on healing with specially prepared medicines that allow the body to heal itself.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

a quick question. I got the SCD book, and started the menu. we are still not weaned from illigal food, but my DD complains about "tummy ache" after each meal she had. We are on day 3of the SCD. Am I giving her too much protein?

Thanks


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## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

Oh, I'm sorry to hear she is having tummy ache!
It is a big change for her.
Are you starting strictly with the stages?
(just trying to decide what to feed you guys for lunch still!)


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Yesterday I was eating some of my 24 hr goat yogurt (made from Pasteurized milk) and dd was in my lap. She seemed to want some, so I gave her some, and she liked it, but she wanted to feed herself with the spoon, so I gave up trying to get it into her mouth and she proceeded to get it all over her face. She normally eats finger foods and doesn't eat with utensils (nor have I fed her with them). I noticed the skin beside her mouth looked like it was getting red. Then she started itching, rubbing her whole face, getting the yogurt all over, and I looked at her face-and she was definitely having a contact reaction from the yogurt! Right beside her mouth she had raised bumps, white in center, surrounded by red, and red splotches all over her face. I couldn't believe it! I put her in the bathtub, and wet her face with oatmeal in a washcloth and when she got out I put on the Chinese Pearl Powder cream. The redness started slowly disappearing and this morning it was gone! I definitely think she is allergic to dairy proteins, so I won't be trying to give her any of that again!

I had an appointment w/ a nutritionist next week. For what it is worth, she said she had just gotten back from a conference where one of the presenters said that the amount of phytates in grains that ends up binding minerals when consumed by humans is very small. She says if she remembers she soaks her grains, if not, she doesn't worry about it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
Then she started itching, rubbing her whole face, getting the yogurt all over, and I looked at her face-and she was definitely having a contact reaction from the yogurt!

I had an appointment w/ a nutritionist next week. For what it is worth, she said she had just gotten back from a conference where one of the presenters said that the amount of phytates in grains that ends up binding minerals when consumed by humans is very small. She says if she remembers she soaks her grains, if not, she doesn't worry about it.

Yikes Sarah!!! I'm so glad it went away quickly. I guess it's good to have a definitive answer too.

I wish I knew more about what causes a dairy protein allergy.
Like for example, the SCD is so specific about what causes the intestines to gradually stop being able to digest grains and what it does to the intestinal bacteria, and then further impairs ability to digest grains, etc. etc.

I've never seen a dairy allergy explained in such a manner... a way that we could understand it better and apply specific principles to correct it.

Although I do have a thought too... that it could have been the acids in the yogurt too? What do you think? Which complicates things I know.

It's so frustrating that there is so little that is known about all this. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places.

Re: the phytates
It's not just binding minerals, I think they also interfere with digestive enzymes breaking down the grains?

I don't know the exact levels of phytates... but the thing I think about is that for "normal" people with "normal" digestion, it might not make much of a difference. But for people with impaired digestion, it could be crucial, and make the difference between damaged intestines and healthy ones. Was the nutritionist speaking specifically about healing the gut or just general nutrition? Any other interesting things you learned?

I hope *Gale Force* sees this and has more thoughts, she is very knowledgable about NT.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
a quick question. I got the SCD book, and started the menu. we are still not weaned from illigal food, but my DD complains about "tummy ache" after each meal she had. We are on day 3of the SCD. Am I giving her too much protein?

Thanks

That's possible... is there anything different you are giving her besides more protein compared to what she usually eats? What is she eating exactly? Has she complained about a tummy ache before or is it something new?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
Well, SHE says she is a homeopath.......she did recommend me a mix called Digestazon, but it's an herbal thing too, not the homeopathic stuff I saw at the same store. I wasn't given any 'homeopathic' ideas. Just the diet.

I can't GET raw dairy here!!!!!!!!

And if you only do 'raw' dairy, what about cheese??

Do you think I would see improvement for BOTH of us limiting our bread intake to sprouted-grain only, grass-fed, humane-slaughter meat only (which I do as much as I can anyway) and more fruits, veggies, that kind of thing rather than grains, pasta, stuff like that??'

OK I just don't WANNA give up tortillas and such FOR YEARS........

I'm flummoxed about that homeopath.

Did you try www.realmilk.org? The "Where" section.

Raw cheese is sold in my Whole Foods and other stores, I also get some thru my raw milk co-op from local dairies.

It's is possible you could see improvement with the diet you list... I just don't know sweetie!! I've been in the stage you are in and I totally understand that it's hard to come to terms with at first.

I think the quicker you heal though, the quicker you can go back to eating tortillas. But if the condition doesn't improve, tortillas will continue to torture you for much longer ykwim?









You can maybe also try enzymes and hydrochloric acid supplements if you do eat these things that are giving you trouble now. And of course yogurt.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

*I* do not have any digestive signs, the only reason I think I probably do have some sort of yeast problem is because I spent my *ENTIRE* pregnancy with a y. infection. (Of course, it could have possibly been too that I also had a bacterial infection in the same area and antibiotics for that, which we know doesn't help the yeast situation......)

Is it POSSIBLE for yeast to go from mom to baby that way??

I think I need to find a good probiotic for BOTH of us. I think the addition of kefir or something to MY diet would help me, but with him, there's the dairy deal.....I should probably just find us both a supplement. No bifidus, eh? all right we'll start there.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Well the newborn is supposed to pick up some of its good bacteria by travelling through the birth canal... so it makes sense that it gets the bad kind too.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

This is all kinda OT, but:
About the homeopath thing, my homeopath is also quite knowledgable about the whole health picture and nutrition is one of those things. He says you can use homeopathics all you want, but if the beginning cause of your problems is dehydration due to drinking too much water and flushing minerals out of your system, for example, you're not going to get better without also, in my case, drinking something other than water like a high potassium potato broth for the duration of nursing or when it's hot outside. Hope that makes sense.
Personally, I'm seriously considering becoming a Heilkunst (which means "whole art") practitioner of homeopathy myself www.heilkunst.com I will be starting their "first aid" course as soon as I fax in the application, and receive all my stuff, and if I like it, I will consider doing both human and veterinary homeopathy - I'm also very curious about their nutrition course. There is a lot of controversy surrounding whether Heilkunst is true homeopathy or whether only Classical Homeopathy is, but to me the argument is moot. I don't personally believe homeopathics alone can heal everything - if your daily diet consists of McDonalds or Burger King for breakfast and lunch, you're not going to get healthy just using homeopathy, yk?


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
I think the addition of kefir or something to MY diet would help me, but with him, there's the dairy deal.....I should probably just find us both a supplement. No bifidus, eh? all right we'll start there.

You could try making the coconut milk kefir-I just made a batch. It is kind of fun (I use an electric drill to get into the coconut-and to me it isn't any harder-maybe easier-to make than the 24 hr yogurt from the SCD.

http://www.bodyecologydiet.com/coconutkefir.php


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## Einley (Jul 12, 2003)

I NEED to subscribe to this thread, and THANK YOU to those that started it and have kept it going.







I have been dealing with digestive/food allergy issues with my son for almost four years now and have found nothing that works and no one to listen to me. Reading this thread, now I know that I am not alone and it makes me giddy almost to read about moms taking charge in the care of their children. I have learned so much from this thread, and again, I thank you!


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

My poor little baby just broke out in hives (?) just now, little red raised bumps all over. Then they turned splotchy and she just looked horrible for a while.







I drank a bunch of water and gave her some too and now she is sleeping, but I am so sad! I was on a dairy free diet but cheated at a restaurant (I don't know what was in the food I ate). I also ate some almond butter today, that was the only thing different than what I usually eat. My poor baby, she also has a red rash that spread up to her vulva and it is painful when she pees and when I wipe her. I feel like her reactions are getting worse and worse, I think there was just a bit of cheese in my tortillla chips at the restaurant and the rash on her face got bright red a few hours later. I'm calling my NP tomorrow and see if we can go in to check her out again instead of waiting one more month.

I just wanted to say







to all you mamas struggling with digestive issues, I feel so bad for what is happening to my baby.

I'm going to go buy BTVC online right now, I'm beginning to think this is the only way to help her.

Thanks so much for being here everyone!


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Hmmmm so *how* do you make coconut kefir though? It doesn't say a temp-ferment process and all that. I can't watch the video, I don't have sound!!


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

OK so lemme see if I get this....

My SCD book went back to the library BEFORE I could write down recipes from it!! (my mom was TRYING to be nice, but I was going to take it back on Monday the 15th--it was due the 16th and ILL, so a BUCK a day for overdue!!)

If I were to do SCD with my baby, since I wouldn't give him any of the dairy at this point (reacts to it) and no nut flour because well, he's a BABY, then he CAN have any vegetables other than corn (which I don't give him anyway), white potatoes (which I've only given him once maybe), and sweet potatoes. And NO canned veggies, which I don't do anyway, except we do eat canned tomatoes....and beans have to be dry prepared.

and he can have any fresh fruit, but bananas have to be *really* ripe, with the skins having brown spots, and canned fruit if it is in juice.

Absolutely NO grains whatsoever.

And the whole point of things like kefir is to get the 'good guys' into him. Is there something 'special' about the fermented milk, coconut, or whatever that is also good for digestion? Or is it just that the 'good guys' are in there?

If our problem *IS* yeast, I want to avoid sugar and the like obviously, because yeast likes sugar. That would also apply to sweet potatoes, right? Where I'm confused is where grains come in.
DS did fine with grains in his diet, I took him off only because the homeopath said to do it, and SCD recommends it too. I am fairly sure I'm going to leave him off grains till he can chew *real* grains well. (I did what JaneS did too, 'ooh organic whole-grain cereal...' but mine was the multi-grain, I did worse at first, GERBER )

Anyway I'm trying to come up with something that seems 'sane' and 'doable' for BOTH of us.....I was thinking I could do things that would be healthy for both of us like oatmeal in the crockpot overnight waiting for us in the AM.

I might read more about this body ecology diet.....anybody got any other 'diet' info??


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

OK to sum it all up, I think our problem has a lot of possible causes.

1. DS did have vax'es up to 6 months. *I* also had a flu shot when he was 2 mos. old and still getting my EBM. HIS problems began at age 3.5 months, about a month after I got the flu shot and a month and a half after his vax'es. They worsened about a month and a half later, after his 4 mo old shots to where he could not tolerate dairy in my diet via EBM either. (He'd done OK w/it up to that point even though he couldn't tolerate regular formula as a supplement.)

2. At my OB's rec, I took 4 Rolaids a day while pregnant--NOT because I had heartburn, but because I needed extra calcium!! (leg cramps from *ell...) I was just reading about the HCl stuff......makes me wonder.

3. I had a yeast infection the ENTIRE time I was pregnant, which makes me think *I* have a y. problem and DS probably somehow got it from me.....I never had a full blown y. infection before I was pregnant, but I do think it was there, I'm not going to go into detail. That's been gone since DS's birth.

I'm having a LOT of frustration now as to exactly how I should handle this with DS.
My main questions

1. I can't find ANY info on using SCD with a child under 1 year old. I really do NOT think it's a good idea to give the nut flours or dairy to my baby until at LEAST a year, maybe even more like 18 mos or 2. (yeah he IS 10 months but...)

2. Sometimes I wonder if we really NEED to be 'that extreme'. DS does not seem to have a problem with some good whole grains (and very occasionally some not-so-whole..) in his diet. And there's times like last night where we're at a friend's house for dinner.....the whole meal is you use your pita bread to pick up whatever else you're eating. So yeah, I gave DS some pita bread dipped in a little sauce, etc. I want him to grow up enjoying food from his dad's culture too.......in fact, his poop today looks more 'normal' than from a couple days ago with NO grains at all..........

I wonder if maybe the answer lies in starting from scratch, assuming he can tolerate all the fruits and veggies he's had just fine, and journaling what happens as I add in some grains and meats again?

And I'm confused with how to do the whole probiotic thing! Kefir is good, kefir is bad--yogurt is better.......ds can't handle dairy right now........coconut kefir made with body ecology probiotics claims to help.......Do I even HAVE TO make yogurt at all? Can I just give him the probiotic in something else.

and sugar feeds yeast, but SCD and other diets do allow fruit......so if I mix the happy probiotic powder into say, some applesauce, or a bit of mashed banana, I'm not defeating the purpose??

and one last question I promise I'll stop here----does anyone know ANYTHING at all about the effects of Nutramigen and similar corn-syrup based hydrolyzed protein formulas on the gut? And if I were to take the little guy off that, what WOULD I feed him? I keep hearing 'goat milk' but then I hear that lots of kids who have problems with dairy also have problems with goat milk?? But then the other night my friend who is bf'ing a baby who is reacting to something was told to take dairy and soy out of her diet but that she COULD have goat milk............(babe is near 2 mos old and had eczema from the sound of it, I didn't see anything on her face but well, I don't look over other people's babies)

I'm afraid to take the chance with goat milk and also concerned that it doesn't contain iron.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Just joining in as I try to figure out what to do with my family's diet. Here is our background.

Ds1 (4 yrs) is severely allergic to corn (ana. reactions to high corn protien content, lots of other allergic symptoms to corn in all other forms, so all processed food are out). He is also dx'd as Autism Spectrum. He seems fully autistic when eating corn products (NOT corn, but things like glucose/fructose, vitamin A palimate, ascorbic acid, etc) and once we removed those things from his diet he improved dramatically. He still has lots of food issues, he only eats a handful of foods (wheat, nut butters, maple syrup, yogurt, potatoes, occationally apples and bananas, some cheeses). He is iron deficient and is low on all the vitamins/minerals he was tested for. He has never had a solid stool that I can remember. I know that yeast is a concern, but most acidophilus I have found locally is grown with maltodextrin, which he can't have (corn). I am so careful about what he eats because of the severity of his allergy that I know he isn't getting any corn products, but I still feel he is reacting to something.

Ds2 (almost 2 years) is reactive to soy and dairy. I eat dairy though and he doesn't *seem* to react. He also doesn't tolerate goats milk, though he loves it. He also has never had a solid stool and surely has a yeast problem.

Dd is 3 months and I DON'T want to face these things with her as well, so I am highly motivated to change things immediately.

We are also vegetarian (lacto-ovo) and will not change that for any diet, so we are limited in that regard. I am currently trying to figure out which path to follow.

What are the main differences between the SCD and the MD? I know several people who are incorperating aspects of the MD into their eating, so it seems like a good place to start.

Also, can I make 24 hour yogurt (either dairy or goats) in an old Salton yogurt maker? What about coconut milk yogurt, if I get it canned, do I need to dilute it to make yogurt out of it? How much to dilute it for drinking for my toddler?

I have tons more to figure out, but I will save that for a time when I am more clear-headed :LOL


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

I recieved this question via email from a friend of mine who has a DD with autism.

Have you heard of somebody overcoming food allergy by dealing with intestinal issues? Is that why you're doing this? I was under the impression that leaky gut is more to do with behavior problems rather than food allergy. My understanding is that leaky gut (extremely permeable intestine) lets through peptides into the blood system, then, peptides are carried to the brain and act as drugs such as morphine or like LSD causing behavioral problems (casimorphine and glutamorphine). Food allergy, on the other hand is a reaction of immune system, so leaky gut or not, once protein is in the system, you get IgE or IgG reaction. But I read stuff like this a while ago, so maybe there's a different understanding to it now. Anyway, since you're doing a test with GSL, have you heard about their intestinal permeability test? It tests whether you have a leaky gut. Well, how leaky your gut is at least. Since intestinal wall is permeable to an extent, they'll probably provide the normal range, I suppose. I hope their data is good, though. This test at least controls the variable by giving you a challenge drink and measures how much of what you have drunk gets in your system, but it might vary by age and I don't know if they take that into account. What I didn't like about them then (I don't know if they're still the same way now) is that they did not want to give me the approximate cost of these tests. They said that they did not provide that information until the doctor actually orders the test kits. Their food allergy panel also seems good although many mothers I see at the support group used Immuno Lab for that. If it turns out to be food allergy, there are other ways to deal with it with traditional medicine such as immuno therapy.


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## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

I don't know all the technical explanation, but Bean had the behavioral (peptide if you well) response and she also had food allergey response as well as auto immune disorders as response.

All of these things are so intertwined and that brings me back to the the question of what came first...the leaky gut? The gluten intollerance? What was it?

If it is gluten intollerance, for example, the body will fight it off as it comes into the system in a similar manner that a body would fight off an illness. This is why the intestines get damaged (in a very lax definition) because while the body is fighting off the gluten toxin, it is also killing good cells and destroying villi.

For Bean, this created such confusion that her body was killing off other things and fighting other things such as other foods, blood cells, etc.

AND the issue of peptides and behavior were going on at the same time, but all were stopped wtih diet changes.

Go figure. Of course, you know we used Imuno Lab. I do think it was a great tool, but I think that had we done the SCDiet gluten free and dairy free, we would have hit the same great results we ended with. It was a healing that needed to be done one way of the other and no test I found (and we did take many) gave us the exact combination to answer what the steps would be to reach that healing.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Welcome Genevieve and Freerangemama







.Glad to have you join us







.

Freerangemama - I think you are very wise to heal your gut now while you are still BF. Hopefully you will avoid problems with your new babe. Since your oldest ds eats nuts you will be able to make lots of baked goods out of almond flour and you can make the 24 hour youghurt for him too. I didn't have luck with my eurocuisine maker, but your Salton might hold a temp better. Jane converted her maker by trashing the individual cups and placing all the yoghurt in a pyrex glass bowl instead. She had to leave the lid ajar to keep the temp 100-110. It can be done if you're willing to play a bit. I would suggest reading BTVC and MD so that you have a good basic understanding of both diets before trying to decide which one to incorp. or to mix them. I just made the 24 hour yoghurt from raw goat milk this weekend and it was SO easy and much more yummy than using plain organic goat milk.

Greencat - I've never heard of that test, but it sounds interesting. Would your friend be open to reading BTVC? The 2002 edition has the chapter on autism.

Melanie - You're right, there is no info on placing a babe under 1 year old on the SCD (there also is not any info for BF moms regarding whether they need to follow the diet if their BF babe is on it). You're smart to not give him nut products before a year. He also shoud not have honey before a year and that is another thing that is allowed on the SCD.
I can tell you that in order to follow the SCD 100% ,as is necessary, you have to be sold on it and believe that it is what your babe needs. Sometimes it takes a while to get to that point. Jane and I certainly went down many roads before we jumped on this wagon.









Peace,


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
My poor baby, she also has a red rash that spread up to her vulva and it is painful when she pees and when I wipe her. I feel like her reactions are getting worse and worse









to you and your babe!

That rash sounds like either yeast or a staph infection.

There are food lists at www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info and www.pecanbread.com and lots of reading there too you can before you even get the book.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
Hmmmm so *how* do you make coconut kefir though? It doesn't say a temp-ferment process and all that. I can't watch the video, I don't have sound!!

I don't know about a video, but the step by step process is pictured here:
http://www.bodyecologydiet.com/mcoconutkefir.php


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
If I were to do SCD with my baby, since I wouldn't give him any of the dairy at this point (reacts to it) and no nut flour because well, he's a BABY, then he CAN have any vegetables other than corn (which I don't give him anyway), white potatoes (which I've only given him once maybe), and sweet potatoes.

And the whole point of things like kefir is to get the 'good guys' into him. Is there something 'special' about the fermented milk, coconut, or whatever that is also good for digestion? Or is it just that the 'good guys' are in there?

No potatoes or sweet potatoes either, those are complex carbs, see food lists at www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

Doing SCD with a 10 month old would include egg yolks, meat, fruit and veggies.

Yes, the "good guys" need to be strong enough and in large enough population to crowd out the "bad guys". Read all about them and the reason why grains, sugar, corn and potatoes are excluded here:
http://www.pecanbread.com/scdscience.html


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Oh, I am so joining this tribe!









Thanks to those who have posted about the SCD, I have started learning more about it. After I read on the pecanbread site, in the scientific explanations page, everything just made SO MUCH SENSE! It just totally clicked, and I KNEW this is the information that I need to get more fully on the path of healing.

I've known or at least suspected for some time that I need to heal my gut--that that is where the root of all of my past health problems can be traced back to. I also knew that the avoidance of grains and sugar were known to help heal the gut, but I could never get around to accepting that fact, because I didn't agree with the notion that grains are evil and are not meant to be consumed.

But with the SCD explaination, I was able to see the WHY of it all. And I'm content with the fact that it is not saying that no one should ever eat grains--that people with a healthy gut and all of their systems working to break them down to be more digestable can consume them.

I'm convinced that all of the gut damage, or at least mine, is caused from eating too much white flour products and sugar. Both my mom when she was pregnant with me, and when I was growing up, and basically my whole life.
It makes sense to me, you're filling up your gut with something that provides basically no nutrition, and even depletes you of your nutrients.

I'm also glad to know that I'll be able to add back in properly prepared grains once I'm healed. Like my sourdough and sprouted grains. The way they were meant to be eaten!

BTVC shipped out to me today, so I hope I get it soon. I've never been able to stick to something strictly for more than 12 days in a row, so I'll need lots of support!

My "gut" feeling is that I will need to stick to the SCD for at least 9 months. I've had some concerns for my youngests digestion, so hopefully I can get the whole family on board.
Thankfully, I've been studying WAPF and NT for a few years now, so I'm not feeling to overwhelmed at starting something new.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
2. At my OB's rec, I took 4 Rolaids a day while pregnant--NOT because I had heartburn, but because I needed extra calcium!! (leg cramps from *ell...) I was just reading about the HCl stuff......makes me wonder.

I wonder if maybe the answer lies in starting from scratch, assuming he can tolerate all the fruits and veggies he's had just fine, and journaling what happens as I add in some grains and meats again?

and sugar feeds yeast, but SCD and other diets do allow fruit......so if I mix the happy probiotic powder into say, some applesauce, or a bit of mashed banana, I'm not defeating the purpose??

and one last question I promise I'll stop here----does anyone know ANYTHING at all about the effects of Nutramigen and similar corn-syrup based hydrolyzed protein formulas on the gut? And if I were to take the little guy off that, what WOULD I feed him? I keep hearing 'goat milk' but then I hear that lots of kids who have problems with dairy also have problems with goat milk?? But then the other night my friend who is bf'ing a baby who is reacting to something was told to take dairy and soy out of her diet but that she COULD have goat milk............(babe is near 2 mos old and had eczema from the sound of it, I didn't see anything on her face but well, I don't look over other people's babies)

I'm afraid to take the chance with goat milk and also concerned that it doesn't contain iron.

Rolaids used to have aluminum too, not sure if they still do. Shame on your OB too b/c leg cramps are caused by lack of magnesium balanced with calcium. (And sugar strips both of those from body and bones as well.)

Yes, HCI is important b/c it keeps the small intestine free of bad bacteria through acidification.

Food journals are crucial in this I think, that sounds like a good plan.

Read more about why the SCD doesn't think fruit feeds yeast in the previous "Science" link I posted. Applesauce or bananas would be ideal (I remember Goodpapa saying that bananas are the best for helping probiotics grow.)

I hear you re: and under 1 year old and being sure to get all nutrients in their proper form. There are some homemade formula recipes at www.westonaprice.org and www.mercola.com that are much more balanced than just plain goat milk.

Didn't Moneca use Nutramigen with Sierra b/c that was her only choice as well?

I don't know what to tell you, the corn syrup is, shall we say, less than ideal. But I understand about not seeing any other option with a dairy allergy. Oh, I do seem to remember there is a meat based formula recipe at Weston Price...


----------



## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*

I wonder if maybe the answer lies in starting from scratch, assuming he can tolerate all the fruits and veggies he's had just fine, and journaling what happens as I add in some grains and meats again?


Hi Melanie,

I know this whole thing can seem overwhelming! I like your idea (above). I would simplify things as much as possible, and keep a food diary. Write down what you give your child and any reactions you notice.

Many people recommend the Jarrow Brand probiotics w/ FOS. Yes, I know FOS isn't SCD legal, but hat's what we use. I think the main point of the probiotics, kefir, yogurt, fermented veggies, etc is just to get some good bacteria into the system. Yes, different people & different diets recommend different ways to do it. I personally think that some way of getting some good bacteria in is beneficial, but if it isn't going to work for you now, just skip it!

Another thing I think is most useful is to get some "good fat" in your babe's diet. That would be the Omega 6 fats-they are important in the formation of cellular membranes.... and those need to be in good shape in the digestive system. We use:
https://www.nordicnaturals.com/direc...mary.asp?ID=36

You can rub some on the bottle nipple before feeding to get it into babe.

You might want to check out this book... it is older but I found it to be very useful. It is called "Is this your child?" by Doris Rapp, MD. She recommends keeping a food diary, discusses yeast, allergies, etc. I bet it is at your library or you can order used off Amazon for cheap.
http://www.drrapp.com/products.html

I don't know about the Nutriminagen.... but 80% of those allergic to cow's milk proteins are also allergic to goat. Do you know what your baby is specifically allergic to in dairy products? Here are some good sources of info, in which the formulas are also discussed:
http://www.allergyclinic.co.nz/guides/43.html
http://www.allergysa.org/milk.htm

Here are some recipes for homemade baby formula by the Weston Price Foundation, which has a very good reputation in the natural foods world. One is made from liver, so maybe that would work for you.
http://www.westonaprice.org/children/recipes.html

My final advice: Take some deep breaths and know you are doing the best you can. You will find the answers!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama*
Just joining in as I try to figure out what to do with my family's diet. Here is our background.

Ds1 (4 yrs) is severely allergic to corn (ana. reactions to high corn protien content, lots of other allergic symptoms to corn in all other forms, so all processed food are out). He is also dx'd as Autism Spectrum. He seems fully autistic when eating corn products (NOT corn, but things like glucose/fructose, vitamin A palimate, ascorbic acid, etc) and once we removed those things from his diet he improved dramatically. He still has lots of food issues, he only eats a handful of foods (wheat, nut butters, maple syrup, yogurt, potatoes, occationally apples and bananas, some cheeses). He is iron deficient and is low on all the vitamins/minerals he was tested for. He has never had a solid stool that I can remember. I know that yeast is a concern, but most acidophilus I have found locally is grown with maltodextrin, which he can't have (corn). I am so careful about what he eats because of the severity of his allergy that I know he isn't getting any corn products, but I still feel he is reacting to something.

Ds2 (almost 2 years) is reactive to soy and dairy. I eat dairy though and he doesn't *seem* to react. He also doesn't tolerate goats milk, though he loves it. He also has never had a solid stool and surely has a yeast problem.

Dd is 3 months and I DON'T want to face these things with her as well, so I am highly motivated to change things immediately.

We are also vegetarian (lacto-ovo) and will not change that for any diet, so we are limited in that regard. I am currently trying to figure out which path to follow.

What are the main differences between the SCD and the MD? I know several people who are incorperating aspects of the MD into their eating, so it seems like a good place to start.

Also, can I make 24 hour yogurt (either dairy or goats) in an old Salton yogurt maker? What about coconut milk yogurt, if I get it canned, do I need to dilute it to make yogurt out of it? How much to dilute it for drinking for my toddler?

I have tons more to figure out, but I will save that for a time when I am more clear-headed :LOL











See this link: http://www.i-c-m.org.uk/journal/2004/nov/a01.htm
Dr. Campbell-McBride uses the SCD.

Wheat would be the number one thing to get rid of in my mind regarding behavioral issues, especially for an ASD kid and especially for an iron deficient kid... he's not absorbing his food and it's possible he is gluten intolerant and his villi are damaged. Anemia is the number one common trait in gluten intolerant people. Egg yolks contain iron. I would try to find a local source of free range eggs and give several a day, like 4 or more.

Two Yahoo groups: Pecanbread and Autism_Mercury have tons of super knowledgeable parents regarding diet, combating yeast and behavioral responses to diet.

Re: Coconut Milk for Drinking
I use one can of organic full fat coconut milk to a half gallon of spring or filtered water and 1/4 c. honey. I'm currently searching around for a good mineral (calcium/magnesium) supplement but so far am striking out and/or getting caught up in The "which is best" and "which will feed yeast" head spinning nightmare.

When I get my non dairy yogurt starter and a new box of kefir powder I will experiment with fermenting coconut milk and report back.

My DS is doing well on the acidophilus capsules from Kirkman that are SCD friendly so don't have any corn fillers. It's a royal pain to have to order online though
http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/...id316_120.html

I would start your oldest 2 on cod liver oil right away, they need healthy fats for their brains and moods. Nordic Naturals peach flavor, the regular, not the children's Peechy Keen (which is less potent for more money), is a good one.

Editing to add: and you should take the clo for your babe too. Also coconut oil increases the medium chain fatty acids in your breastmilk that will help protect your youngest as coconut oil is naturally anti fungal and anti bacterial. www.tropicaltraditions.com

Their coconut cream concentrate is great as a peanut butter substitute and also a good way to get more coconut oil into your diet. My DS loves it with jam on his almond flour bread









Do you have digestive or yeast problems? Something is going on with you to have it be present in both your oldest children...

Are they vaxed?

Do you have mercury fillings?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tweetybirds2*
Oh, I am so joining this tribe!









Thanks to those who have posted about the SCD, I have started learning more about it. After I read on the pecanbread site, in the scientific explanations page, everything just made SO MUCH SENSE! It just totally clicked, and I KNEW this is the information that I need to get more fully on the path of healing.

Thankfully, I've been studying WAPF and NT for a few years now, so I'm not feeling to overwhelmed at starting something new.











Great!!

I'm still relatively new to NT and WAPF (but again, it makes so much sense), so I'm doubly glad you are here Tweetybirds2!!


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
My poor little baby just broke out in hives (?) just now, little red raised bumps all over. Then they turned splotchy and she just looked horrible for a while.







I drank a bunch of water and gave her some too and now she is sleeping, but I am so sad! I was on a dairy free diet but cheated at a restaurant (I don't know what was in the food I ate). I also ate some almond butter today, that was the only thing different than what I usually eat.

Hi,
this has happened to my dd (now almost 13 mo) several times. I've determined she is definitely allergic to dairy... Here's what one source says:

http://www.allergysa.org/milk.htm

"Cow's milk is one of the most common food allergies in children, perhaps because it is usually the first foreign protein (substance) encountered by infants. Cow's milk allergy (CMA) affects about 2-7.5% of infants. Unfortunately, in CMA patients, 50% will develop an allergy to other food proteins (e.g. egg, soya, peanut) and 50-80% will develop an allergy against one or more inhalant allergens (e.g. grass pollens, house dust mite, cat)."

DD broke out in hives once after I gave her a few alfalfa sprouts in a restaurant and let her play with the plastic cup that had a few drops of lemon tahini dressing left in it. I am still not sure what caused that breakout.

Another time she broke out from the strong ammonia smell of our cat litter box, which we keep in a shower/bathtub we don't use. I took the litter box out (she wasn't with me) and turned on the shower to wash the tub out. Well, the smell permeated my clothes, and then, not thinking, I put her next to me in the sling. A while later I noticed she was itching and she had hives all over!

Just the other day she developed hives on her face from rubbing goat milk yogurt on her face! But, go figure, she's eaten cheese (by accident at another child's house) with no reaction! Perhaps the proteins (or whatever) she is allergic too were modified by the cheese making process.

She doesn't react to almond butter... of course your dd may be different, but dairy is the most common allergy.


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## aagas78 (Apr 25, 2005)

Hello everyone,

I have 1 year old daughter Natalie who suffers from multiple allergies and eczema. She is on gluten,milk, soy, corn free diet for the last 4 months. Thanks to this forum I ( and Allergy) i found out about the SCD. I am very willing to put her on this diet, but I am a little bit confused about different stages in SCD. She is also treated by N.D. So far not very successfully. We already sent the poop for CDSA and wait for results. The main problem she has it's her horrible itching. She is insanely itchy!!!!Everywhere> MOstly on her legs, arms.She takes probiotics, so at least her poops look decent, but as soon as we stop using them, she starts having very foul, fermented, watery BMs.
Our naturopath keeps saying us that her itching stems from toxins from killing the yeasts. So, I would love to try the 24 hour yoghurt, since it has tons of good bacterias, but what about her milk allergy. According to the muscle test, she is still weak for dairy, so I keep giving her milk free probiotics(unfortunately SCD illegal).She doesn't tolerate coconut milk(vomiting).








I am trying to decrease the amount of carbohydrates in her diets, but it's pretty hard with her allergies to many vegetables(carrot, broccoli, pumpkin, zucchini...) She is not breastfed anymore.
SHe is ok with lamb, veal,squashes(except for zuchinni),onion,chard, fish oil, egg yolk, olive oil. She eats some SCD illegals:rice formula, quinoia, buckwheat, rice,FOS. As far as fruits go, we tried banana, apples, papaya, cherries and turned out she is allergic to them(diarrhea, rashes, congestion).
What would be the best first stage food for the babies of 1 year old? What kind of food is good for the next stage?
I have kind of feeling that her dairy free, powdered probiotics are not strong enough to kill off the bad bacterias and process of healing her guts is gonna take forever.

Agnes


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## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

I am not sure this is the most ideal place to ask this question, but I think many of you will be well informed on the subject.

I am about to buy a bulk purchase of meat. I buy from a farm that has pasture fed cows that are fed 100% grass (I assume in the form of hay in the winter?)

However the cows are not "organic" per se.
Does that matter?
If so, why?

I am not at all thrilled to find the organic farmers whose cows just stand around eating oats, barley, and feed all day in pens.

BUT I Would hate to find out that the pasture fed cows who are not organic will have some health concerns for our family.
Thanks for any guidance-
We get our sources from
www.eatwild.com by the way.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

LaLa,

I think your message also should go in the NT Mama's thread
What is it about their practices that are not organic? I'd be concerned about antibiotic and hormone use. But if they don't use those and it's just that they don't feed on organic hay and are not certified... then I'd say ok.

I SO want a deep freeze for the garage so I can do this someday. My refrigerator freezer is ridiculous...something falls out most of the time when you open the door!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aagas78*
Hello everyone,

I have 1 year old daughter Natalie who suffers from multiple allergies and eczema. She is on gluten,milk, soy, corn free diet for the last 4 months. Thanks to this forum I ( and Allergy) i found out about the SCD. I am very willing to put her on this diet, but I am a little bit confused about different stages in SCD. She is also treated by N.D. So far not very successfully. We already sent the poop for CDSA and wait for results. The main problem she has it's her horrible itching. She is insanely itchy!!!!Everywhere> MOstly on her legs, arms.She takes probiotics, so at least her poops look decent, but as soon as we stop using them, she starts having very foul, fermented, watery BMs.

I would love to try the 24 hour yoghurt, since it has tons of good bacterias, but what about her milk allergy. According to the muscle test, she is still weak for dairy, so I keep giving her milk free probiotics(unfortunately SCD illegal).

Hi Agnes!!









And this was your first post too









I'm wary about the FOS, I think I got worse on it. Which probiotics are you using?

I think food is really going to be the key, but I feel for you with so many restrictions. I think it will get better as her gut get's better of course, but in the meantime you have to find something that works now.

What about fermented veggies? My DS loves pickled cucumbers which you can just make from cukes and salt. I'm in the same boat here. I think my DS can only stand tiny amounts of dairy but gets overloaded quickly.

There's nut yogurt recipes at www.pecanbread.com

Quote:

Our naturopath keeps saying us that her itching stems from toxins from killing the yeasts.
This makes sense in our experience as well. It's a vicious cycle.

Quote:

She doesn't tolerate coconut milk(vomiting).








Ugh. Was it too thick or you think an allergy reaction? Have you tried coconut oil?

See stages modified for dairy free kids here:
http://www.pecanbread.com/foodprep.html#intro
And it continues in the section after that.

Quote:

As far as fruits go, we tried banana, apples, papaya, cherries and turned out she is allergic to them(diarrhea, rashes, congestion).
Did you read about allergies to salicylates and phenols? It seems there might be a common thread here.

It seems though that the SCD to rebalance the intestines would totally make sense given the state of her poop when not on probiotics. Let us know when her CDSA comes back!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Good Bacteria Relieve Ulcerative Colitis*
Researchers from the University of Bologna in Italy and the University of North Carolina found that ulcerative colitis was improved in the majority of patients taking a probiotic mixture of eight bacteria for six weeks.
http://www.mercola.com/2005/aug/11/bacteria.htm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dr. Mercola*
They [probiotics] happen to be one of the BEST solutions for acute diarrhea, especially when you are traveling. To treat this you will need very large doses. Typically it will require an entire bottle taken in one day, divided in doses every 30 minutes until you are better. This is a sure-fire solution that has rarely failed the patents I have recommended it to...

There are many different types of beneficial bacteria. I have used dozens of different ones in my practice and have reached one consistent conclusion over the years. There just doesn't seem to be one "magic bullet," outstanding brand that is good for nearly everyone. I suspect that this has quite a bit to do with everyone's unique biochemical individuality...

You can also obtain plenty of beneficial bacteria by consuming fermented foods like kefir. This is the way many traditional cultures received their bacteria. I can assure you that they didn't run down to their local health food store and purchase a bottle of probiotics...

Some of the other important factors that are absolutely crucial to recovering from inflammatory bowel disease are:

*Animal-based omega-3 fats.* Previous studies done at the Cleveland Clinic showed this to be a powerful tool to beat inflammatory bowel disease.

Make sure your *vitamin D* levels are optimized. Vitamin D appears to be nearly as effective as the omega-3 fats. It is my belief that it is gross malpractice for a physician to take care of a person with this problem and not regularly monitor their vitamin D levels. The best way to get vitamin D is regular sun exposure so make sure you have a healthy tan this summer. If you have a healthy tan there is little reason to measure your D levels as they will likely be near ideal.

*Avoid sugar,* as it will increase inflammation by increasing your insulin levels. You will need to restrict the use of carbs to "slow carbs" of mostly vegetables.

*Avoid grains* until symptoms are under control. Many with inflammatory bowel disease have gluten sensitivities. Additionally, the grains tend to increase insulin levels in most.


*Re: Vitamin D levels*
I wonder if this is one factor why ezcema is worse in winter???

*Re: Taking a Whole Bottle of Probiotics in a Day??*







:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Just wanted to mention this specifically...

If you have a gut imbalance, it is very important to eat organic, no antibiotic meat and dairy. If not, you are continually killing off the good bacteria and making the problem worse.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Welcome tweetybirds2 and aagas78







!

Lala - I would also ask about their feeding practices. I just bought some raw goat milk from a farm that was not certified organic. Upon further investigation I discovered that the goats grazed on a pesticide free meadow for 95% of their intake and consumed nonorganic grain for the other 5%. I want orgainc and raw, but this was better than the org/pasturized goat milk I can buy at the HF store IMO. I know that in order for a farm's products to be certified organic the animals must have been on a 100% pesticide free diet for a year before they can apply for organic certification.

Agnes - I'd like to know how your daughter's allergies manifest themselves. Any ana reactions should never be messed with. IMO when the gut is injured it will react to foods in a variety of different ways that MANY mistake for allergies. For instance, I thought dd was allergic to the whole world of food because she vomited with everything







. The day she started the SCD I gave her all kinds of food that she had always vomited with like dairy and eggs. She stopped vomiting the first day on the diet! IT was amazing!!! We were also paying $1000.00 a month between our ND, chiro, and another chiro doing weekly NMT and she was not getting any better. Trust me, we were desperate to get her better and didn't have the money to be throwing around. We were on so many supplements and homeopathic remedies it was just rediculous. Please post your CDSA results when you get them. Jane and I had them done on our babes and found the results very valuable. We'll help you plow through them and get you started on SCD if it's appropriate. You can give supplements and remedies/NAET until you're broke, but it won't heal the gut.

Honestly, Jane and I were on the phone this weekend griping about the tough week we'd both had due to the fact our babes got illegal stuff this past week







. We both learned first hand that you can't heal the gut by cheating even in the slightest when there is serious damage







.

Peace,


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

LaLa, I think that eatwild has trustworthy sources. I agree that cows that are out naturally grazing on grass is much better than any meat just labeled "organic". It sounds good to me. You can always drive to the farm and double check to make sure you see the cows out there in the pasture.

Mercola sounds right in line to what we are talking about. I think I have a mild case of IBD, though there have been some bad episodes, especially since the birth of my 2nd.


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## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

I'm such a dunce, it says "certified organic farm" right on their website!









Okay, so it looks to be all good!


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## aagas78 (Apr 25, 2005)

Hi,

Thank you for all your answers, good people







!!!
Yeah, it was my first post today, but I've been reading this thread from the very beginning.

To mountainmama: my dd never had ana reactions so far. Her allergic reactions manifest in different ways:first rash on her cheeks,diarrhea, then bumps on legs and of course intensive itching. I checked food, which is meant for stage1 and I am really looking forward to putting her on 100% SCD but there is one problem- I don't breastfeed her anymore. I guess I am gonna need a lot of coconut milk. So, as I understand you, first I should put her on 100% SCD and then see the difference. No cheating









To JaneS-I am using probiotics form Genestra Brands. (they contain acidofilus,bifidobacterium,salivaris-170 billion CFU in 20 g sachet). I know that it's very crucial to be 100 % SCD, so I try to adjust my DD's diet to SCD standards, but it's gonna be tough. I will try once again with coconut milk, but this time 1 can of coconut milk to half gallon of water). I just checked food sensitivity website







More work to do. I think I will stick to my probiotics for time being but start working on nut yoghurt.
Pickled Vegetables!!!It's such a great idea. I completely forgot about them.

I can hardly wait for my DD's CSA results.I will definiately post them.
I'm off to start my SCD revolution.

Thanks again for all tips
Agnes


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

No, actually, I do NOT know specifically *what* my child's allergic to with dairy. What I do know is at 3.5 months old, he started having colic symptoms and diarrhea that stopped when he was taken off of milk based formula.

The same colic symptoms and diarrhea started again after 2 days on soy formula.

The only option we had for EBM supplementation then as far as infant formulas go is Nutramigen. We did it, it worked.

I have heard that MANY places about the high likelihood that a baby who is intolerant of cow's milk will have the same experience with goat's milk. That's why I'm afraid to try it, even though I know Nutramigen has high levels of MSG among other 'bad' things. (I'm now beating myself up that much more that i did NOT keep pumping. When 2 docs and a pharmacist tell you your baby can't have prednisone through your milk though you tend to believe them--especially when you've had a horrible week where you just want to quit anyway, which I did right then. And THEN I find out in my group online there's a mom who's bf THREE kids while on prednisone for asthma, and there's a site called safefetus.com that says it is FINE for bf'ing moms!!







: ) I can't go back now though, I was on the low end supply wise to begin with and I just can't see that I'd make enough this far out from his birth, there's nowhere to pump at the school I work at, and I just can't see that I'd make enough to justify the time I'd spend pumping for it.....if he'd been NURSING, I NEVER would have QUIT not in a MILLION years. I would've just itched for weeks if that's what it took. 

See, and I'm SURE my homeopath is thinking the same thing about omega fats, because she recommended I feed him fish and eggs, even though she said he should not have MEAT until a year. The thing is, all those 'allergy lists' say fish and eggs are highly allergenic foods. So it just doesn't make sense to me to give him those!

Also, she said NOT to give wheat again till at LEAST a year. She says I don't need to go so far as to do SCD.

She also did reassure me that I'm not defeating the purpose of probiotics if I mix them with a little fruit, in fact, she said it was the perfect thing to do. She suggested if I wanted something we both could take, to get a bottle and give him a fourth of a capsule and take 2-3 of them myself a day. She mentioned a couple brands, one had bifidus for sure though so I am not doing that one.

She also said what I should do is just watch how he reacts to different things. If I see problems for him with brown rice and/or oatmeal when I try them, then of course he should stay off them at least another month. (I personally would then go till at least a year if that was longer.)

She said what she recommends for babies just starting out with solids is orange veggies first for a month, then green, then fruits, followed by grains no earlier than 10 months, but not before they've had at least 2 months of nothing but veggies and a little fruit--no wheat till at least a year, and no meat until a year--or longer if they don't have the teeth needed to chew it. (or 6 months--orange, 7 months--green, 8 months fruit, then grains at 10 and meat at a year. She said beans were fine for my baby at 9 months, tomatoes and potatoes occasionally.) The most important thing though was watch the baby and see what happens with each new food---if a lot of it is coming through relatively unscathed (like carrots might for example) they're not ready for it.
She said though the people who have started their babies out this way have had great luck with it, the babies grow up eating veggies without complaint, no big digestive issues, it works out well. Maybe something to keep in mind for those who have smaller kids? I wish I would've known.

Oh and JaneS--- I FOUND A DENTIST!! I have, from what I can see looking in my mouth, what appears to be 6 (or was it 7?) amalgam fillings. The dentist I just started with in May will no longer be working Fridays starting Sept. 1.......guess the only day I have off? That's right, FRIDAY. The one on the HFS list with 'mercury amalgam removal' next to his name isn't there Fridays either! But THEY referred me to ANOTHER dentist, who *is* open Fridays. *that* office recommended I wait till November when I am due for 6 mo. cleaning and all that and consult then about taking out the amalgams, because my insurance will at least pay for the appointment then, and they will work with my company to see if they can't maybe get some of the removal paid!! YIPPEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I am NEVER, I repeat NEVER EVER EVER getting another vaccine as long as I freakin live. To think this might have all been caused by a dang flu shot and I thought i was doing a GOOD thing trying to not expose my baby to the flu.............
In all seriousness, I am thinking about going to nursing school as a first step on IBCLC, but I will drop the idea if it requires me to finish the Hep B series, or if it requires me to get a flu shot every year. I'm not doing it.

(I didn't get that first hep B till May after I quit bf'ing at least.....)


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

On the subject of coconut milk kefir........I saw the site that recommended a half cup per meal for an adult........so that's 12 oz. a day, half a cup being 4 oz.

Z is 20 lbs. Would I be right in thinking a half-ounce with meals for a total of 1.5 oz. a day would be enough??
I tried a little math on the subject, ok 4 times his weight would be 80, eight times would be 160, close to what I weigh. 12/8 is 1.5 oz. Or a half-ounce is I believe 3 teaspoons (one being 5 ccs, an ounce being 30ccs) , or 1 TBSP of it. (I THINK there are 3 tsps. to one TBSP but right now all these #'s are confusing me!!)

How do I get that stuff to start the coconut kefir, and where the *heck* am I going to get YOUNG coconuts, that is the better question! LOL.......


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

I bought a new probiotic for ZZ today..........Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri.......has bifidobacterium infantis, b. longum, L. rhamnosus, L. acidophilus, and L. reuteri. Recommends a teaspoon a day on the container, for baby. Reuteri is apparently one of the first pro-b's a baby is supposed to get, via bm....we can TRY right?? lol

I also bought some O. Kefir and yogurt--plain for myself. I can't afford adult pro-b's at the moment and the amount I would have to take of Z's I'd use it all in a couple days!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Melanie,*

*Young coconuts* are in my Whole Foods store, also have 2 Asian grocery stores near me that carry them, so look in your yellow pages. I've heard on other lists that stores will special order. Yes, if you are going to try the coconut kefir, you should try your DS on a teaspoon at a time, it's very potent.

I like *Nature's Way Reuteri*, we've tried it, but it does have bifidus.

*RE: Dentists*
It is absolutely crucial to have your dentist follow the IAOMT protection protocol for mercury removal (rubber dam, oxygen tube in your nose, outside air vent in room, suction hose by chin and special drill that chunks the fillings as opposed to grinding). If a regular dentist does it, you risk getting a huge amount of mercury dumped into your system all at once and defeating the purpose of removal.
www.iaomt.org

*Re: BF'ing*
Hale's book is the last word on bf'ing and medications, his website is here:
http://neonatal.ttuhsc.edu/lact/

Are you thinking about relactating? was it just the medication issue or supply issue? Did you try Domperidone?
What are you on prednisone for?

...sorry that I'm grilling you


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Agnes,*








Start the Revolution :LOL

Glad to have you with us, I look forward to learning from your experiences too









Let me just make it clear that canned coconut milk is not SCD legal. My brand has it stated on label it's less than 1% guar gum. Considering that 14oz can is diluted with 50oz or more of water as I use it, I've decided not to worry. But really we should be whizzing raw nuts or coconuts in the blender with water to make our own milk


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

OH and Melanie,
My dental insurance paid their measly stipends for all my filling replacements and visits even when my dentist was out of network, so check with your ins co (mine's Delta).


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Also just wanted to gripe here about a story told this morning my a mom in our playgroup...

A friend of ours used to be in our playgroup and can't come now b/c of serious health issues with her DD same age as my DS. Her DD has been in and out of the hospital for heart issues and massive ear infections for like a year. Had her adenoids removed to stop the infections









She's been on multiple antibiotics, including prophylactic antibx now ... and now she has constant diarrhea and vomiting. The doctors have ordered all kinds of tests and "don't know what's wrong with her". Hello????? You think antibiotics might be having something to do with it!!??

Now this is Boston Children's Hospital mind you. The best in the country.

I'm so









I sent our friend an email just saying I've been though the diarrhea issue with DS and been successful in turning it around, so let me know if I can help. Trying to think about how I'm going to talk about this to counter the "best" doctors in the land here.


----------



## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Relactating is not a realistic option for me now. My work schedule can't allow for enough times per day to pump to have a good chance of getting and keeping an even halfway decent supply.

I was on prednisone to stop horrific itching from a reaction to sulfa antibiotics. I was on it for um, I think it was 10 days......then time for it to get out of my system I figured....a month probably of pump and dump or close to...just couldn't see it.

I took Dom, I took herbs, I did Reglan for all of 2 doses, it made me SOOO zoned.....I did mother's milk tea, oatmeal, and ginger 'beer' (sorta like root beer, more like really strong ginger ale, point is it's non alcoholic lol) It was MUCH more expensive for me to BF than to do formula I'm sure, but I can't put a price on what it did for DS! wow!

I will look at the info on mercury filling removal, it will give me good questions to ask at the dentist's office. I could always schedule it in a school vacation too with someone who does it right.

Does it hurt??? Just curious.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
*Melanie,*

*Young coconuts* are in my Whole Foods store, also have 2 Asian grocery stores near me that carry them, so look in your yellow pages. I've heard on other lists that stores will special order. Yes, if you are going to try the coconut kefir, you should try your DS on a teaspoon at a time, it's very potent.

I like *Nature's Way Reuteri*, we've tried it, but it does have bifidus.

*RE: Dentists*
It is absolutely crucial to have your dentist follow the IAOMT protection protocol for mercury removal (rubber dam, oxygen tube in your nose, outside air vent in room, suction hose by chin and special drill that chunks the fillings as opposed to grinding). If a regular dentist does it, you risk getting a huge amount of mercury dumped into your system all at once and defeating the purpose of removal.
www.iaomt.org

*Re: BF'ing*
Hale's book is the last word on bf'ing and medications, his website is here:
http://neonatal.ttuhsc.edu/lact/

Are you thinking about relactating? was it just the medication issue or supply issue? Did you try Domperidone?
What are you on prednisone for?

...sorry that I'm grilling you


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
OH and Melanie,
My dental insurance paid their measly stipends for all my filling replacements and visits even when my dentist was out of network, so check with your ins co (mine's Delta).

I have Delta too! The dentist I talked to did mention Delta is getting better about paying.........meaning they will pay something as opposed to nothing...I'm going to read that link too.


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## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

Jane, it is maddening indeed.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Melanie,*

Re: Relactating
I understand. I just wasn't sure if you were trying to relactate or not with the link in your sig... that's too bad you had so much trouble, you obviously tried everything!

Re: Your Question: Does it hurt?
Not anymore than removal of regular fillings. The composite fillings themselves do take a while afterwards to settle down, I had just a mild ache in some teeth for a few days.

It's usually done in either 2 or 4 separate appointments depending on how many fillings you have. The composite (if you do choose those as opposed to the porcelain, which cost about 3x as much) takes a while to place and shape, more time than a mercury filling.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

over the phone they mentioned doing composites. Now, it is my understanding that if you look in your mouth and see metal, that's mercury, but the composites are 'tooth colored.....' right?? I'm assuming the metal I see is mercury amalgam anyway....


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

For those who are eating raw dairy :

I have been giving dd raw goat cheese for a few months now. I buy Alta Dena brand from the HF store. I was told by a local farmer that they heat their milk to 135 deg due to state law. I confirmed this with Alta Dena directly







. Bummer! Enzymes die at 117 deg! They add enzymes after heating the milk to turn it into cheese instead of using rennet so there are some enzymes in the cheese, but none from the raw milk. Buyer beware







!

Peace,


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

It is ILLEGAL to sell raw milk in this hick state I live in.....








I *would* buy it and related products if I could.

That said, I am not so sure I *want* to stick to every word DS's homeopath says. He *wants* more variety in his diet, he is *begging*.......and he did OK with certain meats at 9 months even. Daddy sneaked him some chicken tonight, he LOVED it and can chew it and everything, 2 teeth and all. He is NOT happy with 'something else' anymore, he wants what WE have.

That said, now who thinks I managed to kill ANOTHER set of probiotics??? I JUST BOUGHT that dang container of Reuteri, and now I left it out on the table for about 4 hours!!!!!!! He literally had THREE DOSES out of it!!
(I mix it in his applesauce, so today I had that all out, I fed him, and then I cleaned up......but I found the Reuteri container still sitting there at 5 PM!!!!!!!!!)


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
It is ILLEGAL to sell raw milk in this hick state I live in.....







I *would* buy it and related products if I could.

Here in Arizona, it is illegal to sell raw milk for human consumption, but the farmers get away with selling it by putting a label on it which says for animal consumption only. Do you have a farmer's market or a community sponsored agriculture where you live? Asking around at those places, I've found someone that sells raw goat and raw cow milk! They also had goat meat for sale! It has an interesting taste, a little stronger than lamb!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
That said, now who thinks I managed to kill ANOTHER set of probiotics??? I JUST BOUGHT that dang container of Reuteri, and now I left it out on the table for about 4 hours!!!!!!! He literally had THREE DOSES out of it!!
(I mix it in his applesauce, so today I had that all out, I fed him, and then I cleaned up......but I found the Reuteri container still sitting there at 5 PM!!!!!!!!!)

It probably isn't all "dead." It is frustrating though, to leave it out. By the way, I'm sorry I recommended the Jarrow w/ FOS, after reading this (from Jane, I think): http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/co...onspiracy.html
scroll down for the info about FOS.

I just tried another batch of homemade 24 hr yogurt...I'm having trouble keeping the temp right... this time it was too low overnight.... I used raw goat milk. Thanks Moneca, for the reminder that the benefits of raw are wasted if one heats the milk up to 170 as the SCD webpage recommends!

Jane, I empathize with your frustration! Isn't it like that in so many health fields? As a psychologist, I used to get soooo frustrated at the mental "health" system in this country!







With an over-reliance on pharmaceuticals and a medical model, the basics like love, care, relationships, exercise, and good food are all but ignored!! The whole thing is enough to drive anyone crazy!









I just looked up some links on protein digestion. Kind of interesting. Protein should be eaten first at a meal, they say.
http://www.bodyandfitness.com/Inform.../combining.htm
http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/nutrition/digestion01.htm


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Sarah,
If you tell me how you are making your yoghurt I'd be glad to help you figure out a way to keep the temp 100-110 for the entire 24 hours







. Ah, to be out West







.

Peace,


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
It is ILLEGAL to sell raw milk in this hick state I live in.....







I *would* buy it and related products if I could.

Yes, through retail, but a number of dairies have what is called a "cow share" program. Meaning, if you own your own cow, it's perfectly legal to consume the raw milk of course. So you buy shares.

Oh and leaving the probiotics out... they are not that sensitive, don't worry about it one bit. Cold is just to prolong their life they don't die if they are not cold.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*

Jane, I empathize with your frustration! Isn't it like that in so many health fields? As a psychologist, I used to get soooo frustrated at the mental "health" system in this country!







With an over-reliance on pharmaceuticals and a medical model, the basics like love, care, relationships, exercise, and good food are all but ignored!! The whole thing is enough to drive anyone crazy!









I just looked up some links on protein digestion. Kind of interesting. Protein should be eaten first at a meal, they say.
http://www.bodyandfitness.com/Inform.../combining.htm
http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/nutrition/digestion01.htm

Tell me about it re: mental health. Those "professionals" even worse than MD's for accepting "alternative" ways of being healthy (I work with some). And you'd think that would be the opposite. But drugs are all about control, and are easy to prescribe and accept, not so the prescription to change one's life.

I've definately seen that the rules of food combining work with DS... especially with fruit.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yes, through retail, but a number of dairies have what is called a "cow share" program. Meaning, if you own your own cow, it's perfectly legal to consume the raw milk of course. So you buy shares.

Oh and leaving the probiotics out... they are not that sensitive, don't worry about it one bit. Cold is just to prolong their life they don't die if they are not cold.

That's what the Nature's Way ppl said, the only way they 'die' is if they are left in your car on a hot day, for example.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

I just got this great article from a friend and wanted to pass it on. Maybe you have already read it.

http://www.contemporarypediatrics.co....jsp?id=174258


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca*
Sarah,
If you tell me how you are making your yoghurt I'd be glad to help you figure out a way to keep the temp 100-110 for the entire 24 hours







. Ah, to be out West







.

Peace,

Maybe you can help me, too. I want to make coconut milk yogurt. I don't have a yogurt maker. My oven only goes down to 170 so I tested water in it with the light on. It won't stay warm enough. How would I do it in a crockpot? Mine is one with a glass crock and has the settings keep warm, low and high. Should I just put water in it and a jar with water and test it on keep warm? Or what?
Thanks in advance!
Deborah


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Humm&#8230;.I am on my third trial to make the yogurt. I found controlling the temp over night is the most difficult. I think I am going to try to put heating pad in a large cooler would do the trick. My oven is an old one (it is avocado green), and putting a light 60W. light bulb may be another trick. Does any one have an opinion on the yogurt starter, either Danon's, starter recommended by peacanbread web, Jarrow brand, etc. etc.

We are still trying to get the hang of SCD. I think we are going to go back to no dairy diet because I think it is constipating us more. I just wish we had more variety from legal list, though. We can't eat eggs, banana, and berries of all kind to list a few. My DD was happy to have cheese, but now more limitation.


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Thanks, Moneca, for the offer. I was using something similar to your method with the heating pad underneath a pot of water and the yogurt in sealed glass jars in the water. I used Yogourment starter. The consistency this time turned out much better than last time. I think keeping the heating pad on Medium instead of low may do the trick. I also like Greencat's idea of putting it all into a cooler.

I didn't know there was a way to make coconut milk yogurt-I thought you could only make kefir with it. Let me know how it works, Deborah. My crockpot was too hot, even on the low setting.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I just experimented yesterday and made yogurt on top of the stove in a pot filled with water.

I have an electric stove (wish I had gas) but it's great for this!

Turned burner on lowest setting "LO".

Filled a large pasta pot with the strainer insert (aka "Multi pot" I think we got it at Wms Sonoma but I've also seen other places) with 105 degree water all the way up to top.

Filled 2 glass quart jars with 105 degree milk and added yogurt starter (Butterworks organic yogurt, but I like Yogourmet too). Place jars on strainer insert so they are not resting on bottom of pot.

I turned it off for about an hour or so when the temp started to rise as my house temp rose from 72 to 78 during the day. Did this a couple times as I checked the temp and it started rising a few degrees. But since the house cooled down at night, so I left it on "LO" and it was 107 degrees in the morning. I just did 2 qts but I could fit 3 if I wanted.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

USamma,








Glad to see you on the thread and thanks for sharing the article.

Peace,


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Deborah,
Try the crock on the lowest setting with 1/2 gallon of water. Make sure the water is 100-110 when you put it in the crock as the yoghurt would be. Check the temp every 4 hours for 24 hours. If this does not maintain then try it again at the next highest setting. Good luck and let me know if I can help again.

Peace,
Moneca


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Greencat,
You may not have to include something as large as a cooler. I found the temp harder to control when my air was on high during the hot days and nights. Wrapping the Exterior container (glass or metal) in foil worked beautifully to maintain temp. Are you comfortable with using raw cow or goat milk? Pasturizing the milk changes the protein. Some who cannot tolerate dairy or goat milk in its pasturized form can tolerate the raw version which also has all the good enzymes intact. Just something to consider and do some research on. It took me a long time to be willing to consider raw dairy. Just a thought







.

Peace,


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Here is a question for all you SCD mamas. I thought I had been doing the diet 100% for three months now. Sierra takes 16 oz. of raw goat milk yoghurt per day and I know that the culture is alive because I've made other batches from it just to test it. Her attitude is still great and her vocabulary is finally coming along. Her stools improved initially. Since I took the enzymes out last week they have continued to smell more putrid again with lots of undigested veggies and fruit. She has NEVER had formed stools, much less brown. I know that bile salts cause the stool to be brown so she must have some liver issues too - no surprise. I restarted the enzymes two days after stopping them. I have ordered "no fenol" in addition to the zyme prime because that helps a bit more with fruits and veggies. She isn't eating all that well either. I just realized from Jane's post that I think I have been giving her illegal bananas all along! The BTVC site says that they are legal if ripe with brown spots and the book had said something about no green on them. Well, all the organic bananas at trader joes are always green. She eats bananas with some green on the tips and occ. the angle lines that appear on the bananas. They also have brown spots so I thought she was safe, but perhaps I was wrong all along. What do you think?

Thanks,


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## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

I don't know about the bananas. It sounds questionable!
I do know that Bean was on Choline (is that right?) for a brief time period for her liver?
I don' t know much else, sadly,but I would look it up and see what you can find otu about it!

Oh how joyus will that day be when you see formed poopS!
Only a small group of people will be able to appreicate that moment


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca*
Here is a question for all you SCD mamas. I thought I had been doing the diet 100% for three months now.

Isn't three months the standard relapse time as noted in the book?


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

so if ds's stool is any color other than brown, that's abnormal? What does it mean? curious.

The other day, it was practically black I thought, but then I realized it was more purple---BLUEBERRIES LOL

How much of this is age appropriate? (10 mos, 2 teeth, I have to think some of it is age and chewing ability.)


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Way behind and catching up.....

Quote:

Wheat would be the number one thing to get rid of in my mind regarding behavioral issues, especially for an ASD kid and especially for an iron deficient kid... he's not absorbing his food and it's possible he is gluten intolerant and his villi are damaged.
I just read BTVC and I am putting the family on it next week when we move back into our house (renos....ugh). He only eats wheat, dairy, and potatoes so I know it must be a problem.

Quote:

Egg yolks contain iron. I would try to find a local source of free range eggs and give several a day, like 4 or more.
We buy free range eggs weekly from the farmers market, but he won't eat them because of the texture (sensory integration issues). We have been adding tons of extra eggs to his waffles and such, but I don't know how we can get him to eat them plain. I will have to be extra creative!

Quote:

I would start your oldest 2 on cod liver oil right away, they need healthy fats for their brains and moods. Nordic Naturals peach flavor, the regular, not the children's Peechy Keen (which is less potent for more money), is a good one.
Thanks for the suggestion. I definitely will, I have been looking for ideas on what else I should be supplimenting them with, but it can be tricky with the corn allergy problem.

Quote:

Editing to add: and you should take the clo for your babe too. Also coconut oil increases the medium chain fatty acids in your breastmilk that will help protect your youngest as coconut oil is naturally anti fungal and anti bacterial.
Yes! She just broke out in a bad yeasty-looking rash and is also developing a rash on her face and torso. In my gut I just KNOW it is food related. My heart sank when I saw that yesterday, but it also lets me know that I am on the right track. I can't wait to get home and start on this right away. My dh is on board too, so it will be a family endevor.

Quote:

Do you have digestive or yeast problems? Something is going on with you to have it be present in both your oldest children...

Are they vaxed?

Do you have mercury fillings?
They are not vaxxed, I have no fillings, no mercury exposure of any kind. I don't use chemicals at all in my home or on my body. We don't use medications of any kind. It is beyond frustrating to have all these problems when I have been SO careful







I do have food and yeast issues I am sure. My whole family does. Dh does too. We are looking forward to healing our guts, but then what? What kind of diet should we be eating after all this is said and done? I am wanting to eat more fermented foods, what about sprouted wheat? Is MD or NT a good option for us when we are healthy again? My mind is boggling......


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

Here is a question for all you SCD mamas. I thought I had been doing the diet 100% for three months now.
I just finished BTVC last night, it says that it is common to seem like you have a relapse after about 3 months on the diet, but to stick with it and things will get better again (or something to that effect). Could that be what is going on?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama*
Way behind and catching up.....

We buy free range eggs weekly from the farmers market, but he won't eat them because of the texture (sensory integration issues). We have been adding tons of extra eggs to his waffles and such, but I don't know how we can get him to eat them plain. I will have to be extra creative!

Well you sure are catching up quick and jumping in with 2 feet!









I would mix raw egg yolks into everything: smoothies, pureed butternut squash, popsicles (or into hot food if you really don't want to do that, but my point is that you can hide them very easily). Raw egg whites shouldn't be eaten: http://www.mercola.com/2005/feb/9/raw_eggs.htm

The Midas Gold pancake/waffle recipe is fantastic. I also add some coconut oil to it. http://www.scdrecipe.com/r_006_00183.html

BTW I really like the superfine almond flour from www.digestivewellness.com

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama*
Yes! She just broke out in a bad yeasty-looking rash and is also developing a rash on her face and torso. In my gut I just KNOW it is food related. My heart sank when I saw that yesterday, but it also lets me know that I am on the right track. I can't wait to get home and start on this right away. My dh is on board too, so it will be a family endevor.

They are not vaxxed, I have no fillings, no mercury exposure of any kind. I don't use chemicals at all in my home or on my body. We don't use medications of any kind. It is beyond frustrating to have all these problems when I have been SO careful







I do have food and yeast issues I am sure. My whole family does. Dh does too. We are looking forward to healing our guts, but then what? What kind of diet should we be eating after all this is said and done? I am wanting to eat more fermented foods, what about sprouted wheat? Is MD or NT a good option for us when we are healthy again? My mind is boggling......

That is so awesome about your whole family and DH! I came downstairs this morning and thankfully DS was tucking in to his waffles after he finished his banana, but DH was eating some of his secret stash of toast and sugar cereal.







DH has had digestive issues for a long time but I don't think he will ever change until it gets debilitating.... however, I don't think I ever would have changed either, or realized the issue was this crucial if I hadn't gone through this with DS so I try to be gentle with DH.

Yep, it sounds like your issues are definately food and gut related. I know exactly how frustrated you feel. Although I do have a history of antibx and fillings, I'm way healthier in my habits and nutrition than anyone else I know IRL, people who have even more exposure to "bad things" than I have. I don't know what the key is in our environments, or the magic combination that makes us succumb to this. Perhaps we have a certain vulnerability ... I was FF Carnation evap milk/Karo syrup formula recipe as a babe







and probably never started with strong intestinal flora to begin with.

And our modern life has so many assaults that it's hard for even the most green family to completely get away from (building materials, air quality, pesticides, chlorine) that it may have been just inevitable at some point.

I do know that bf'ing definately makes the central issue more apparent b/c your health is so intimately connected with your babe... and that isn't mainstream either. So I think we as a group are noticing things that are probably there in the general population (I do know tons of kids with eczema or diarrhea) but the cause isn't as obvious to them as it may be to us. After all digestive issues are also extremely common as well. But when you have the love of your life turning red and scratching or throwing up all their meals, well that's an especially powerful signal.

As far as what diet to follow "afterwards"...
I think NT has many secrets that are crucial to good health and digestion, soaking grains & beans, using fermented food and dairy and high vitamin foods, etc. I've just started MD. I think I'll probably always follow some of the principles of SCD: lots of fruit and veggies and limiting complex carb/sugars, it's just such a healthy way to eat. But you can make that decision later. I think what you learn along the way will let you know what will be the healthiest choices for you and your family.









I'm psyched to have more company in this journey


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
so if ds's stool is any color other than brown, that's abnormal? What does it mean? curious.

The other day, it was practically black I thought, but then I realized it was more purple---BLUEBERRIES LOL

How much of this is age appropriate? (10 mos, 2 teeth, I have to think some of it is age and chewing ability.)

Yes, I think you are right... but the fact that undigested food is going through his intestines could be causing harm (SCD says it definately does b/c it ferments and feeds the bad bacteria). I don't think he's ready for them. So you might want to keep him off all fruits and veggies with skins b/c they are so obviously not being broken down by showing up whole at the "other end" :LOL

Who was it that said raisins eaten by their babe showed up as plump grapes in the diaper


----------



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

FreeRangeMama (glad to have you starting the journey with us) and Jane -
Thanks so much for mentioning the three month relapse. I don't even remember reading this







: I do think this is more than a relapse because she had undigested food in her vomit that I had given her 8 hours before. I would question an anatomical blockage or narrowing of some sort, but we had the endoscopy with biopsies and the barium swallow with follow-through to colon for this purpose and both came out normal. The GI even passed the scope through to the small bowel and said that the size of opening was normal because her scope could get through. Here is what I think happened :

I'm doing the intro and diet with her this time. I'm going to stick with the rules and wait on the yoghurt because I don't want to put her through this again.
She experienced initial improvement because we went from corn syrup formula to SCD. I always give her banana pancakes in the morning and then banana in the afternoon for a snack and these were always green with brown spots (I'll be browning them in a paper bag from now on). So, she was getting some disaccharides twice a day. She was still doing o.k. until two weeks ago when I gave her Maker's Diet HSO for three days and aloe vera juice for one day (both illegal). Then last week I stopped her enzymes for two days. I think the last two weeks tipped the scales of bacteria in her gut once again. I'm actually thankful for this because now she will be 100% SCD legal without green tipped bananas. Jody (SCD counselor) also said that Elaine GOttschall is against HSO because they really don't know what they do in the human body (besides the fact that they are in a medium of fermented molasses and barley







)

Peace,


----------



## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca*
USamma,








Glad to see you on the thread and thanks for sharing the article.

Peace,

Thanks for the welcome! Nitara's GI issues are improving, finally. She may not be normal ever, or not for a long time, but I'm finally seeing improvement! I've had a lot of great tips from mamas in this forum to get us through that awful fall/winter/spring with antibiotics and ear infections. The summer has been better.

I was giving her acidophilus (sp?) based in soy, the kind you store in your fridge and it really helped when she was recovering from antibiotics. Now I want to get her off Prilosec but I want to find some natural acid-reducers first.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

So what is the secret to choking down the cod liver oil :LOL I feel pretty good about this whole thing, I stocked up on whole milk (not raw, but not as heated as most), dry curd cottage cheese, butter with lots of bacterial enzymes, and free range eggs at the farmers market. I can't wait till I get home so I can start us on the beginning diet. I also have to purchase a bunch of almonds and such. I figure I can just grind them in the vitamix for baking. Is almond milk okay in the beginning if I make it myself? Kefir is SCD illegal though, right? So much to remember!


----------



## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

I'm still waiting for my SCD book but I started taking clo and it is not fishy at all, the NN has a lemon taste so maybe that's why? Anyway, I just mix it in a little orange juice and gulp it down. I think taking it with food is good too so it's not just sitting in your empty stomach. But I'm not really an expert or anything--

Baby's face has started to clear up a bit, it does not get bright red anymore. I am writing everything I eat down in my notebook, so far I have 3 days! It is a lot harder than it sounds. I also made another appt with the NP because her poop is still green after just 2 days of yellow poop. Sometimes really mucousy too. Those days are scary--

What do you all think of Pharmax HLC Neonate? I can't find much about it in a google search, but a friend highly recommended the brand to me. She works at a digestive health clinic. It contains FOS but said that eventually the good bacteria outnumber the bad after a while. What do you all think? For now I'm still giving baby Jarrow because that's all I have, and can't really throw away the bottle. I'll also ask our NP what brand she likes to prescribe.

Oh my dad said he would buy me a yogurt maker, what do you all think? I've tried twice to make yogurt in a cooler, but both times didn't work. Is a yogurt maker worth it or do you all just figure out your own methods by experimentation? I think I'll practice with Dannon for now, I would cry killing all those little critters in the expensive yogurt starter.

Anyway, that's our update for now!
Liane


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yes, I think you are right... but the fact that undigested food is going through his intestines could be causing harm (SCD says it definately does b/c it ferments and feeds the bad bacteria). I don't think he's ready for them. So you might want to keep him off all fruits and veggies with skins b/c they are so obviously not being broken down by showing up whole at the "other end" :LOL

Who was it that said raisins eaten by their babe showed up as plump grapes in the diaper










I TRY to pick the skins out of things like lima beans, but a couple manage to get by me and I see them on the other side. The blueberries, it wasn't so much skins and whole bits as a couple of generally darker colored poops the next day.

Yeah I think you're probably right about the skins. It's just that berries are supposed to be so GOOD for you and all, I was sharing thinking this was a GOOD thing.....

DH fed him bread and jam today in the 3 hrs he had him. Haven't seen any ill effects yet, but from the sound of it, he didn't eat much of it either.

I am sure I will see some tomato tomorrow as I gave him some tonight,







along with letting him try some collard greens sauteed with garlic..... :nana:


----------



## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

do you all find it as nearly impossible as I do to NOT post in every thread about the benefits of healing the gut?!

I just can't even go into the special needs or natural home forums without seeing posts that make me think...hey it's worth a try!

But then I don't want to be that pushy freak who thinks everyone has the same problem and is trying to convert the world...

but then again....


----------



## moss (Feb 7, 2004)

has mothering mag run any articles about leaky gut and how to heal it? i think that the scd guru's on this thread should think about writing something.









ps, i've been thinking of incorporating the principles of the scd into what we're already doing. but i would definitely need to omit the dairy altogether bc we need to be gfcf as well (because of the whole autism~gliadorphin/casomorphin~opiate peptide crossing the leaky gut thing). i've had gottschall's book _food and the gut reaction_ sitting on my bookshelf for years and i still havent read it, but it seems to keep catching my attention lately. guess it's time to give it a good read.


----------



## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

I know that my friend had approached Peggy with an article related to healing through diet changes (gluten , dairy, soy, corn...paleo diet stuff etc)
and she was told that Mothering already had so many articles piled up and they weren't interested in more articles on autism at this time?









My friend was confused because, although the diet changes do help some families with autism, her story was not about that.

But I agree that it would be wonderful to see an article about this in Mothering!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaLa*
do you all find it as nearly impossible as I do to NOT post in every thread about the benefits of healing the gut?!

I just can't even go into the special needs or natural home forums without seeing posts that make me think...hey it's worth a try!

But then I don't want to be that pushy freak who thinks everyone has the same problem and is trying to convert the world...











OMG, YES!!!

I'm feelin' like the pushy freak b/c I do do that and feel like I have to limit myself. There was one thread in Nutrition and Healing I had to rewrite my post several times to prevent myself from sounding like I'm going off the deep end! :LOL


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaLa*
I know that my friend had approached Peggy with an article related to healing through diet changes (gluten , dairy, soy, corn...paleo diet stuff etc)
and she was told that Mothering already had so many articles piled up and they weren't interested in more articles on autism at this time?









My friend was confused because, although the diet changes do help some families with autism, her story was not about that.

That's really a shame. There's so many more common issues that can be improved through dietary changes, babies/children/adults : colic, sleep disorders, anxiety, ADD/ADHD, eczema, IBS, depression, etc. etc. etc.

Like you said in your previous post... the things people talk about everyday here on the boards!!

Not to mention that good nutrition is the foundation of disease prevention.

That's rather short sighted to just lump it in with autism.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moss*
has mothering mag run any articles about leaky gut and how to heal it? i think that the scd guru's on this thread should think about writing something.

















How 'bout it Moneca? When our DS and DD are healed!

We are still mucking around in the trenches now but expecting miracles soon.

Although I will say that DS has been sleeping through the night for a week now, something he's never EVER done in his entire life. That's pretty much a miracle in this house let me tell you.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moss*
ps, i've been thinking of incorporating the principles of the scd into what we're already doing. but i would definitely need to omit the dairy altogether bc we need to be gfcf as well (because of the whole autism~gliadorphin/casomorphin~opiate peptide crossing the leaky gut thing). i've had gottschall's book _food and the gut reaction_ sitting on my bookshelf for years and i still havent read it, but it seems to keep catching my attention lately. guess it's time to give it a good read.

Great! Let me know your thoughts when you finish it. Just to clarify for others, 'Food and Gut Reaction' is the original title of 'Breaking the Vicious Cycle'.

Moss, check out www.pecanbread.com for non dairy ideas. My DS is dairy free right now as well.


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## jjsexton (Jan 26, 2005)

Hey all you mamas,

Just wanted to say hello, since I've been lurking on your tribe for a week or so now







:

I'm Jessica, and my little guy Michael (now 5.5 months) has had some tummy issues that we initially tried to cure through homeopathy, but ultimately found an amazing kinesiologist who has put me (we're still BF exlusively) on a restricted diet (not nearly as strict as SCD or MD...yet!... but with some similarities): no gluten, yeast (although we are just doing breads, wine, beer, etc; not yet eliminating vinegar, citrus, etc.), caffeine, or alcohol. Michael and I are both on lots of supplements, including CLO (thank goodness for that lemon flavoring!).

So far it's been two weeks, and both of us are doing so much better. Michael's sleeping better, not having as much tummy trauma and discomfort, and finally lost the cough he'd kept from a cold at 2 months. And as for, me my joints are feeling really improved (I have some old neck/upper cervical issues that have affected my head, arms, and hands for 13 years now), my immunity feels higher, I've lost some weight (great side benefit!), and I feel happier and healthier.

I'm just hanging out and reading through your posts, learning what I can, finding great recipes (thank you!!), and moral support. It's also great to know that if we have to restrict further it's not the end of the world, and there are other folks who can offer tips, experiences, and a dose of sanity to the process!

I'll be here, even if silent...Thank you for being here for us to learn from!


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

I found a kinesiologist!!! (sp?) My friend's neighbor does that!! And she does something with herbs too. I told my friend to go over and talk to her, ask her what she charges and whatnot b/c I would like her to see Z.









Jane, I noticed you said your DS never slept through the night....define that. Mine never has either really, not like some other babies I know......but he DOES sleep probably 10-10:30-5 AM consistently and has for quite awhile, SOMETIMES I can get longer stretches, I think 5 AM has now almost become habit more than anything. I think *I* need to be more consistent and not be on here late, he sleeps best if he is in bed with me.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
Jane, I noticed you said your DS never slept through the night....define that. Mine never has either really, not like some other babies I know......but he DOES sleep probably 10-10:30-5 AM consistently and has for quite awhile, SOMETIMES I can get longer stretches, I think 5 AM has now almost become habit more than anything. I think *I* need to be more consistent and not be on here late, he sleeps best if he is in bed with me.

At your son's age, I think this would be considered sleeping through the night!

My guy is 26 months and until last week only slept through the night (I consider 10hrs) maybe 8 times and never two nights in a row. When his digestion is poor, he would wake up 3x night and it would be 1/2 hr or sometimes 2 hrs to get him back to sleep. He has a lot of anxiety about sleeping which is definately tied to his "second brain" his gut. I have had the same issue when my digestion was poor, so I know exactly how it feels. Since it's been better, I sleep like a rock. Well when DS is not waking me up that is...


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jjsexton*
Hey all you mamas,

Just wanted to say hello, since I've been lurking on your tribe for a week or so now







:

I'll be here, even if silent...Thank you for being here for us to learn from!

















Jessica

I'm so glad to hear you and your babe are having some success!

Don't be shy, be sure to update us on how you are doing. I think we can learn the most from each other's real life experiences.

What was I just reading about the joint pain issue... can't remember. But it's definately tied to diet, possibly something about toxins being released. A lot of help I am. :LOL


----------



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USAmma*
Thanks for the welcome! Nitara's GI issues are improving, finally. She may not be normal ever, or not for a long time, but I'm finally seeing improvement! I've had a lot of great tips from mamas in this forum to get us through that awful fall/winter/spring with antibiotics and ear infections. The summer has been better.

I was giving her acidophilus (sp?) based in soy, the kind you store in your fridge and it really helped when she was recovering from antibiotics. Now I want to get her off Prilosec but I want to find some natural acid-reducers first.

USAmma - I'm







to hear that Nitara's little gut is doing better. I've read so many of your posts and know that you have been through hell. Yea for Nitara!! Will she tolerate dairy through her tube? I didn't know if you could make her a homemade yoghurt or almond yoghurt and put it in her peg tube to get more good bacteria and help improve her immunity even more. I remember you saying that she was still NPO. CONGRATS on her improvement!


----------



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama*
So what is the secret to choking down the cod liver oil :LOL I feel pretty good about this whole thing, I stocked up on whole milk (not raw, but not as heated as most), dry curd cottage cheese, butter with lots of bacterial enzymes, and free range eggs at the farmers market. I can't wait till I get home so I can start us on the beginning diet. I also have to purchase a bunch of almonds and such. I figure I can just grind them in the vitamix for baking. Is almond milk okay in the beginning if I make it myself? Kefir is SCD illegal though, right? So much to remember!

FreeRangeMama - My secret to CLO is buying Carlson's lemon flavored or Nordic Naturals flavored oils-I cheat :LOL . Congrats on incorp. so much wonderul food! If you grind the almonds make sure to put any unused flour in the freezer or it will go rancid and keep all baked goods in the fridge. Kefir is illegal due to the airborne yeast.

Peace,


----------



## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Cod liver oil or flax seed oil: We have fresh fruit or fruit juice before the spoon full of the oil. Eat fruit after the oil. It’ll cleanse the taste buds : )


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Liane,
Glad to hear that dd is doing somewhat better







. SCD does not allow FOS. I bought 3 makers and they all overheated to at least 125 which killed the good bugs (even the one suggested by BTVC). Jane's post to make it on the stove sounds easy. Directions to make my yoghurt contraption are on this thread and you probably already have everything in your kitchen to assemble it.


----------



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moss*
ps, i've been thinking of incorporating the principles of the scd into what we're already doing. but i would definitely need to omit the dairy altogether bc we need to be gfcf as well (because of the whole autism~gliadorphin/casomorphin~opiate peptide crossing the leaky gut thing). i've had gottschall's book _food and the gut reaction_ sitting on my bookshelf for years and i still havent read it, but it seems to keep catching my attention lately. guess it's time to give it a good read.

Moss,
www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info also has info on autism and SCD that you might find more updated and helpful. Let us know how we can help.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Jessica,







Welcome! You may never have to go on SCD or MD if you can correct this now before it worsens. If you consume dairy or goat products I'd like to suggest some homemade yoghurt which may help steer you in the right direction. If you need help please let us know.


----------



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

:LOL Funny, I told DH back in January that when I finally found a way to heal Bear's poor gut I'd write and article of the saga for Mothering. I really wanted to do that because we've seen 10 docs (allopathic and alternative), consulted with another 5, and none of them could really help (although I love my ND and chiro







). It has been a very lonley and frightening time to have to discover everything on my own while my dd vomited, hated to eat, had completely undigested stool, and fell off the weight chart. I don't want any mom to go through this alone. You should never have to.


----------



## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

SO I added some kefir into my own diet and I have been taking it right before I go to bed. 2 nights ago, a couple hours after I took it, I didn't exactly have diarrhea, but it wasn't 'normal' either and some pain/cramps. Last night, a couple hours after I took it, I was nauseous.....what is up with this??


----------



## jjsexton (Jan 26, 2005)

Thanks for the welcome!









Moneca - I do currently do dairy, also goat, and have seen you all discussing homemade yoghurt recently but it seems so daunting.
Can you give me a quick summary of why it would be a good idea at this time, and direct me to a resource? Or should I just do some searches?
I haven't had much luck with the MDC search engine thus far...


----------



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Anyone having trouble finding raw milk should check out :

http://www.westonaprice.org/index.html

I have to drive 2 hours to get raw milk in NY. I can get some in CT if I drive an hour and pay 18.00 per gallon







. I joined Weston Price for 25.00 per year. They set up deals with registered raw dairys for their members. For instance, I just drove into Brooklyn Saturday to pick up 3 gallons of raw goat milk at 6.00 per gallon. WP has a business deal with three farmers - one raw goat and 2 raw cow dairies. All are in PA and are licensed by the state of PA where it is legal to sell raw milk, but they can't sell across state lines. I call the dairy, place my order, and send them a check so that the money transactions are not done at the place of pickup. WP then pays a drive to go collect the milk orders from the three PA farms and deliver to a NYC site every two weeks. Crazy, but it works and may be the ticket for those of you who cannot buy raw in your state. Check it out. We







our raw goat milk yoghurt - cream on top is the best!


----------



## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

hey so where do I click to find out if they can get me raw milk? Also please somebody answer my question about what is going on when I drink my kefir!!


----------



## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
That's really a shame. There's so many more common issues that can be improved through dietary changes, babies/children/adults : colic, sleep disorders, anxiety, ADD/ADHD, eczema, IBS, depression, etc. etc. etc.

Like you said in your previous post... the things people talk about everyday here on the boards!!

Not to mention that good nutrition is the foundation of disease prevention.

That's rather short sighted to just lump it in with autism.









to give the benefit of the doubt, there certainly could have been confusion in the presentation!
No harm in submitting articles if you have them!!! Go for it!


----------



## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

Moss, you may like to look into this diet
www.thegardenofeatingdiet.com

they do not use dairy or gluten in any form in their nutrition or cooking recipes.
It is based on pasture raised meats, fruits, veggies, nuts.
IT is a very do-able way to eat without even missing the dairy or grains!

I highly recommend (and often if you see my posts







)

We have never relied on dairy and we have had huge success without it. Now that Bean is all healed she has goats milk and sheep milks products with no ill effects, but even still we don't eat them often.
I am very allergic to dairy and I don't see the need to take on those proteins on a regular basis and increase the risk for intollerance in the girls (should they have inherited this from me).
I have found it gets worse each year I age.
(even when off gluten, soy, corn etc.)

going off topic, but if you are having those problems and you want to do SCD without dairy, it certainly can be done!
I would recommend it for starting if your child is having severe reaction to dairy or major gut problems or autistic related behaviors you feel are stemming, in part, from dairy.


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## moss (Feb 7, 2004)

more raw milk links that can help you find a local source:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawgoatmilk

thanks for all the links, there are some really great ideas on those sites and i've got the garden of eating out of the library right now too. another resource that i've been looking at is: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/GFCFNN/

right now i'm still using seeds (quinoa, wild rice, that kind of thing) and havent taken away the disaccharides/polysaccharides. i also just got into using kefir and kombucha, and am not ready to take those away. i havent read enough of gottshcall's stuff yet to know if i really agree with the 'specific carb' part of her theory yet, just that i know that i have questions about it.

re clo: if i make the right kind of smoothie popsicles for ds, i can hide it in there. udo's oil is easier for him to take. he has a lot of oral issues, so it taks some trial and error on my part whenever i want to bring in something new. i've heard of a chewable natural strawberry flavoured clo capsule that i might try out with him. i think that this is the one that my local hfs carries.


----------



## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Mock Rice:

We are a family of rice-addicted. To comply with SCD, we took all rice together for 2weeks, and found this idea-Chop rutabaga in cubes, then put them in a blender to get the minced, rice size rutabaga. Then, fry it in a pan. It takes any flavor, so you can use it in many things.


----------



## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Just to post our progress, we are getting better about replacing the illegal foods, and getting comfortable with the SCD. My DD still have tummy ache, but I am hoping this is a part of process of getting bad bacteria out of her gut.

Just prior to start the SCD, we were eating a lot of rice (three meals a day, everyday) and frequent stop to the yellow arch for French fries. We also had a lot of tofu and soy products as well. I thought wheat free soy sauce was a God-sent; but replaced with salt.

When we started SCD, I knew my yeast was out of control again due to the rice and soy intake. I had painful nipple when nursed my 18mo. However, now we are getting a good hang of SCD, along with no rice, soy and French fries, the pain in the nipple is gone. I've had yeast on the nipples before many times, but never had this quick turn around, especially with just the diet. I always took other supplements, so I'll say this alone is a success.

I did not mention this on the board before, but as I am reading about leaky gut, yeast and bad bacteria, I think I've been under this condition for a long time (before I was pregnant.) Two years before I conceived, a year after we got married, I contracted meningitis. It progressed into encephalitis, and my husband was warned that I had 75% death rate, or survive with some disability. I came out fine, at least with no visible disability, but was pumped with anti-viral and anti-bacterial drugs, since they couldn't find the pathogen. This could be an over statement, and I'll never figure it out, but I am starting to wonder the yeast and unbalanced colon bacteria is somehow related to the cause of my meningitis. Although, I was 'cure' from meningitis, and waited two years to conceive, it is not a surprise that my children was born with malfunction of their colon.


----------



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
hey so where do I click to find out if they can get me raw milk? Also please somebody answer my question about what is going on when I drink my kefir!!

Melanie,
Click to enter the site and then go to the left hand corner at the bottom of the page. You'll see "local chapters". You will have to call the closest local chapter to see if they can assist you. Re: kefir. Sometimes when you introduce probiotics into your system ( or even a new type as in going from probiotics capsules to kefir) it can be difficult for your system to tolerate them at first. Start taking the kefir again every night, but only take 1/4 cup and gradually work up from there. Increase ever 3 days by 1/4 cup and go slower if your system is having trouble tolerating the new amount.

Good luck


----------



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moss*
re clo: if i make the right kind of smoothie popsicles for ds, i can hide it in there. udo's oil is easier for him to take. he has a lot of oral issues, so it taks some trial and error on my part whenever i want to bring in something new. i've heard of a chewable natural strawberry flavoured clo capsule that i might try out with him. i think that this is the one that my local hfs carries.

DD loves Nordic Naturals. Your "are you leaking" siggy got my attention. I thought you were referring to leaking bm or bladder leakage. :LOL It was a link to our thread - too cool







. Thanks for sharing the good news about gut healing







!


----------



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
Mock Rice:

We are a family of rice-addicted. To comply with SCD, we took all rice together for 2weeks, and found this idea-Chop rutabaga in cubes, then put them in a blender to get the minced, rice size rutabaga. Then, fry it in a pan. It takes any flavor, so you can use it in many things.

Thanks for sharing - wow, are you creative







! I don't even think I know what a rutabaga looks like, but I know WF will have one. I'll make this for dd







.


----------



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
I did not mention this on the board before, but as I am reading about leaky gut, yeast and bad bacteria, I think I've been under this condition for a long time (before I was pregnant.) Two years before I conceived, a year after we got married, I contracted meningitis. It progressed into encephalitis, and my husband was warned that I had 75% death rate, or survive with some disability. I came out fine, at least with no visible disability, but was pumped with anti-viral and anti-bacterial drugs, since they couldn't find the pathogen. This could be an over statement, and I'll never figure it out, but I am starting to wonder the yeast and unbalanced colon bacteria is somehow related to the cause of my meningitis. Although, I was 'cure' from meningitis, and waited two years to conceive, it is not a surprise that my children was born with malfunction of their colon.

Glad to hear that part of your body is feeling better. Nothing like seeing improvement to give you the strength to persevere through gut healing hell







. As a former ICU nurse I can assure you that you probably got at least 3 different types of antibiotics, an antifungal, and steroids for this condition







.


----------



## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

That is a GREAT idea re: rutabagas!!







Sometime I will post the recipe for 'bashed neeps' too LOL It's sorta like mashed potatoes but you use turnips, possibly rutabaga, and carrot instead. It's a recipe I had at an SCA feast and potatoes weren't around medievallly so we don't use them LOL.









Thanks for the kefir idea! It didn't affect me at all the first night or 2 but then it started to.. I was taking about 4 oz. I took none last night and nothing happened. I'll try maybe 2 oz tonight. The kefir also has FOS is that part of my problem?


----------



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Melanie -
FOS should only cause problems if you're strictly on the SCD. Please do share the recipe for "bashed neeps". I would love to try this with rudabaga. I'm looking for new ideas for dd







.


----------



## violafemme (Oct 18, 2004)

Hi all,

I've read most of this thread now, but not quite all. I've posted other places before about dd's excema and how we were trying to heal it by healing her gut.

We've been gluten, dairy, nut and egg free for 4 months and have had NO excema except a brief flare when she got some cookies with barley. We also have been supplimenting with cod liver oil and Evening primrose oil.

The other thing I realised while reading this thread was that while she has been excema free, she has been sleeping through the night..............no more mid-night feedings!! I never thought to conect the two, but a PP helped me put it together.

So just thought I'd de-lurk for a moment and say thanks.


----------



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Jessica,
Are you open to raw dairy? THat would be the most beneficial way to make yoghurt as you would still retain all the enzymes from the raw milk, the good bacteria you culture, and the proteins would remain unchanged since there is no pasturization. It is legal to sell raw dairy at grocery stores in CA. It took me 5 years and a very sick dd to be willing to try raw







.

www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info
www.pecanbread.com

Both these sites have yoghurt info. Do you have an electric oven with a tight seal? That would be the easiest way to make yoghurt. Let me know







.


----------



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Welcome Violafemme. Glad to have you lurking around :LOL .


----------



## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

hey..........my son has NEVER EVER EVER slept more than 8 hours max and that's new for him to go that long without a feeding. (typically we go 10-11 PM to about 5 AM lately.)

Is this in part some digestive thing too?? He is really good about just taking the bottle and going back to sleep whenever he does wake in the night, even at 5 he typically eats and then sleeps awhile longer, till maybe 7-7:30?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
Baby's face has started to clear up a bit, it does not get bright red anymore. I am writing everything I eat down in my notebook, so far I have 3 days! It is a lot harder than it sounds. I also made another appt with the NP because her poop is still green after just 2 days of yellow poop. Sometimes really mucousy too. Those days are scary--

What do you all think of Pharmax HLC Neonate? I can't find much about it in a google search, but a friend highly recommended the brand to me. She works at a digestive health clinic. It contains FOS but said that eventually the good bacteria outnumber the bad after a while. What do you all think? For now I'm still giving baby Jarrow because that's all I have, and can't really throw away the bottle. I'll also ask our NP what brand she likes to prescribe.

Oh my dad said he would buy me a yogurt maker, what do you all think? I've tried twice to make yogurt in a cooler, but both times didn't work. Is a yogurt maker worth it or do you all just figure out your own methods by experimentation? I think I'll practice with Dannon for now, I would cry killing all those little critters in the expensive yogurt starter.

Anyway, that's our update for now!
Liane









Liane!

This is my 3rd try for this post... some kind of gremlin has been afoot! I'll see if I can remember everything.









I found the HLC Neonate probiotics: I don't see FOS listed.
http://www.emersonecologics.com/Prod...BrowseBy=HLC16

I disagree with Moneca that one should only be concerned about FOS on SCD. I'm wary about it... I feel like I got worse taking it. And it was in Baby Jarro that DS took too.

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...accharides.htm

It depends on your temperment re: yogurt maker.
If you are willing to experiement and have some batches not turn out, then go for it. I do like the fact that I can make more than 1 qt at a time (but I did just screw up a batch too). The Eurocuisine model was the least expensive one I found, at www.williamsonoma.com


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama*
hey..........my son has NEVER EVER EVER slept more than 8 hours max and that's new for him to go that long without a feeding. (typically we go 10-11 PM to about 5 AM lately.)

Is this in part some digestive thing too?? He is really good about just taking the bottle and going back to sleep whenever he does wake in the night, even at 5 he typically eats and then sleeps awhile longer, till maybe 7-7:30?

At his age, I think that is totally normal and it doesn't sound like you have anything to worry about.

My guy has always fought sleep. Naptime takes at least an hr. to get him down. And it wasn't uncommon for him to be up 2-3x/night and stay up for a hour or two. That's a problem!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
I've had yeast on the nipples before many times, but never had this quick turn around, especially with just the diet. I always took other supplements, so I'll say this alone is a success.

Two years before I conceived, a year after we got married, I contracted meningitis. It progressed into encephalitis, and my husband was warned that I had 75% death rate, or survive with some disability. I came out fine, at least with no visible disability, but was pumped with anti-viral and anti-bacterial drugs, since they couldn't find the pathogen. This could be an over statement, and I'll never figure it out, but I am starting to wonder the yeast and unbalanced colon bacteria is somehow related to the cause of my meningitis. Although, I was 'cure' from meningitis, and waited two years to conceive, it is not a surprise that my children was born with malfunction of their colon.









I'm so happy to hear you are doing so well in such a short time!

I'm sure your gut was practically sterilized from a bunch of different antibiotics and steriod, it makes sense. That's what happened to me before I conceived, I took several different kinds, including Cipro!


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Tomorrow is the big day for me, I'm starting the introductory SCD. I've got a batch of raw milk yogurt warming and the chicken soup going in the crockpot tonight. I'm sooo sad that I HAVE to eat some cheesecake.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm less than impressed with it.

I felt exactly the same way as I did watching "Cast Away" ... you know the Tom Hanks movie that was a 2 1/2 hour commercial for FedEx?

The diet was an amalgam of Nourishing Traditions with a little SCD in there. But with about $500 or more of special _Garden of Life_ (his company) supplements you would need to buy.









And since it was the supplements seemed to make the difference for him... he had claimed he tried SCD without improvement... WHY on earth didn't he explain each supplement, what they were, and what their purpose was. Or clinical testing or research on them would be nice too. Otherwise it wasn't that much different of a diet to me!

The only supplement he spent any time on was HSO's... and as usual regarding "what's the best probiotic"... who knows who to believe on that front.









And although 95% of the recipes were from NT and he referenced soaking of grains and bone broths for healing... they were way de-emphasized in my mind... I think anyone who wasn't familiar with doing that would miss their true importance.

So although there were kernals of knowledge in there, I already knew them, so I was left feeling like it was just "take these Magic Pills".









Which I'd never give this kind of stuff to DS. And I don't feel like plunking down even more money than I have already on supplement crap for me. Which then leaves me feeling like there's something I'm missing!

Don't like that book.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tweetybirds2*
Tomorrow is the big day for me, I'm starting the introductory SCD. I've got a batch of raw milk yogurt warming and the chicken soup going in the crockpot tonight. I'm sooo sad that I HAVE to eat some cheesecake.









:LOL

Yeah, a diet with cheesecake, honey, butter and nuts. How bad can it be!

Good luck


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

OH I did learn a new factoid from MD... goat's milk makes the body more alkaline, which is interesting.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
OH I did learn a new factoid from MD... goat's milk makes the body more alkaline, which is interesting.

hmmm is THAT why the homeopath wants DS on it so darn bad???


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

and is it normal for a 10 mo old to spit up still occasionally? It's VERY occasional. Just wondering.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
At his age, I think that is totally normal and it doesn't sound like you have anything to worry about.

My guy has always fought sleep. Naptime takes at least an hr. to get him down. And it wasn't uncommon for him to be up 2-3x/night and stay up for a hour or two. That's a problem!


Mine has NEVER fought more than 5-10 mins. Except when this all started and he was in the 'colicky' phase before I figured out what caused it, we had a few days of crying for 30 minutes or more till he finally just wore himself out sleeping 15 and crying another hour or so.........HORRIBLE days.







Other than that specific few weeks, my baby has NEVER EVER cried more than about 2 minutes. He's EXTREMELY easygoing, those 2 minutes have been when the food's too darn slow in coming! LOL


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

Thanks again for the info, Jane. You find the greatest stuff on the internet.

Another Q for everyone, I've been trying to stay away from MSG but it's in a lot of Japanese food (I eat with my husband) and in some pho soup that we love from the Vietnamese restaurant we go to once in a while. Can MSG cause eczema flare ups and mucousy poop? I know it's bad but I haven't been too careful about it. I had some today and after baby's second nursing (4 hours later) her butt is getting red--it starts off with just a ring and then the rest of the ring fills in with bright red. It also spreads up to her vulva. Ugh ok now it's in her leg crease, guess that means yeast--I know I know, you have all been telling me this!! :LOL Maybe this is totally unrelated...Hmmm this allergy stuff is so hard to figure out. Anyway, anybody ever see this in their babes before?
Thanks,
as always,






























Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Liane!

This is my 3rd try for this post... some kind of gremlin has been afoot! I'll see if I can remember everything.









I found the HLC Neonate probiotics: I don't see FOS listed.
http://www.emersonecologics.com/Prod...BrowseBy=HLC16

I disagree with Moneca that one should only be concerned about FOS on SCD. I'm wary about it... I feel like I got worse taking it. And it was in Baby Jarro that DS took too.

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...accharides.htm

It depends on your temperment re: yogurt maker.
If you are willing to experiement and have some batches not turn out, then go for it. I do like the fact that I can make more than 1 qt at a time (but I did just screw up a batch too). The Eurocuisine model was the least expensive one I found, at www.williamsonoma.com


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

I would blame SOY more than MSG. Soy sauce and other soy stuff is in a lot more Asian food than you'd think. Just a thought as my babe's allergic to soy.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

I agree on soy, but MSG is highly suspicious as well. I get a mean head ache first, then blow up like a whale if I eat MSG.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

here's that 'bashed neeps' recipe

equal parts carrot and turnip, steamed or boiled. Mash with cream, butter, salt and pepper to taste. I would imagine y'all could come up with some sort of SCD appropriate substitute for cream and butter? Could you possibly use some of the homemade yogurt?


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

OK I have a major question for y'all.........is it utterly NORMAL at 10 months with 2 teeth that I can look in his diaper this AM and tell what I fed him at 5 PM last night? I mean whole grains of rice, a few tomato bits, etc. I called his ped to see what they say out of curiosity more than anything. I would THINK that even if he doesn't chew real well stomach acid might have an effect??? I've changed a lot of daycare diapers and um I think you can tell more on my son what he's eaten than most his age...........I have seen others where I could 'tell' on some things too, but what I don't know is what's 'normal' due to not being able to chew real well, etc and what's not.









Sorry for the TMI!!


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

and said it's 'normal' as his body learns to work with what I'm giving him. *I* think I'd better NOT be giving rice anymore.


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Hello all!









I need to fully read all of this thread, but I have looked over everything on the SCD website and I am convinced that it is worth doing.

I am interested in doing the SCD diet for myself, my dd and my DH. However, I'm still nursing dd (who is 3). How safe would it be to do this diet while nursing? Obviously she has a good intake from food, her nursing sessions are very rarely long anymore (more like "checking in" with me







) but I'm still worried about any sort of "detox" while nursing. Am I being too paranoid? I understand this diet is a healing diet, but I also understood it that your body is cleansing itself before it heals? How can I modify it, if necessary? Should I start one thing at time such as the yoghurt? Should I take out most grains?

Any insight would be appreciated. Thank you!


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Loon13 Welcome!
Since the diet requires 100% compliance to be effective, it would be difficult to ease into it. You could do that for your own comfort level if it made things easier. The diet starves all the "bad bacteria" and yeast so you will go through a die-off period if you start with the intro as Elaine instructs. Yeast do release their toxins as they die (not sure about the bacteria). I suppose these could go into your blood supply and pass to your BM, but I'll leave that one for Jane since I'd just be guessing. Some go thorugh a horrible die-off and some very mild. Glad to hear you'll be joining the tribe







.

Peace,


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

:


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Thanks for the welcome moneca!









In reading this thread from the beginning, I found Jane's post [ETA: the post that Jane *found*. Sorry about that.







] on the pecanbread list that you copied and pasted here post #13

I understood it like so: Basically it would make sense to heal me on the SCD diet as well as dd even while bf, because if we only heal dd's gut, she might still get undigested proteins in my milk that would set back her healing or even cancel out the healing. Does that make sense to everyone?

We are overseas right now in a very isolated area, and it is very frustrating that I cannot find everything I need locally. I need to order many things online and even then it takes 2 weeks or more to receive them.







: I don't know how well we will do with getting many organic meats and such, but we'll do the best we can. They do sell goat's milk here, so that's a plus. And once we get the yogurt starter, that will be cool.

What I'm going to do right now is order the book and order a yogurt maker. While I'm waiting for those things to arrive, I will ease into it around here by increasing our fruits and veggies and decreasing our grains, decreasing our sweets. Sounds like a plan, huh?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

OMG, a big huge post from me just never posted again...and of course I didnt save it


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Loon13 - That sounds like a good start. Do the best you can in your situation and see if you notice a difference.

Jane - The same thing has been happening to my posts when I use a "quote". I wonder if it's a system problem. I rewrote the same post about four times the other night because my system would not save the bloody thing. Infuriating indeed







: !


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Jane, I totally get what you mean about MD and the feel of "buy my stuff ... get better." We have only bought the HSO's, and really don't use them much - I figure 1) I played in the dirts LOTS when I was young and still enjoy getting dirty







2) my kids play in the dirt TONS, and 3) we take in homemade yogurt and homemade kefir each day. So, I haven't yet been convinced that whatever the HSO's can offer is any better than what we are already getting. But, having not read BTVC, and only glancing at the list of legal and illegal foods, I know for my family, the food restrictions of the MD are much better for our family. It at least sticks with kosher food and servings (well, that is debatable depending on one's observance of kosher laws














, so I don't have to worry about non-kosher food in recipes, etc.

In regards to whomever was talking about yeast/bad bacteria die-off (I think it was Moneca): I went through about a week of die-off when I started kefir. Of course, I didn't "ease" into it - just jumped to 2-4 cups a day!







(Which reminds me, I haven't had any kefir in a few days ... I need to start again.) I would wake at night all sweaty and with stomach cramping. But, knowing it meant good things were happening, I didn't mind.


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Moneca ... are you still looking for kefir grains? I have some - otherwise I'm going to have to buy a bunch more milk as I'm going through about 1/2 gallon a day in making kefir!!! If Moneca doesn't need any, and someone else does, let me know. My alternative to making 1/2 gallon of kefir a day is to eat my grains ... but I'd rather share the wealth.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Has anyone seen this web pg? http://www.goss.com/ihcs/treating_eczema.htm


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Moneca: It still gives me a chill to think about what they may have given me while I was in the hospital. I was discharged earlier under the supervision, but altogether, I wondered in and out of life and death for 2 months, and one week of it in ICU after having a seizure.

Anyway, I am wondering if my kids will ever overcome this food sensitivity/eczema with the kind of 'innate' nature of the gut that they were born with. I'll be happy to never eat dairy and gluten, as long as I can bare the cost of food bill, but I want them to be able to eat the fruits and veggies that they can't have right now.

I am still looking into sending the stool analysis to the Great Smoky; to see what is exactly going on in the gut. I feel we need to add supplements in our diet since we are so restricted in what we can eat, and I think it will give me a good start. My DD often repeats her sentence, as if her brain is in a glitch. My 19mo DS is not very advanced with his speech. I am so afraid to think that their brain may be "starving." Who read the book "Starving Brain"?


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Never mind this recipe: It's "Illigal."


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

Well we are off to the doctor tomorrow to get more advice for Micah's food allergies--I hope she takes me seriously and orders some tests for us. Today Micah pooped a bit and ONLY mucous came out. I feel like such a bad mommy. This will make 3 months without a good poop. I am hoping the doctor will order a stool sample and blood tests, I really can't afford to pay these out of pocket.

So maybe next for us will be no more corn, soy, citrus, or gluten. It has to be one of these. Cutting out dairy and eggs has really helped the breakouts, her face no longer gets bright red and blotchy, even when it is hot. Heat really makes her face rash so much worse. I really want to help her before she shows any interest in food, she's six months but already starts smacking her lips when we eat. So far she is easily distracted by toys (silverware or tupperware). Thank goodness for that. Already two big teeth but so far no more coming in that I can see.

Oh, I am interested to see what probiotic brand she recommends as well. I'll be back to tell you all what she says!
Liane







:


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Hugs to you pbandj. I know it's tough for you. You seem to be on the right track though. You are cutting out the major allergens one at a time.

As for me, I can't even say I'm on the diet yet either, as I don't even have the book yet! But I'm so excited to get started and I want to join in with all of you! :LOL

So far I'm being sure to read as much as I can from this thread (I'm still going through all of it) and looking at the various sites. And also







:

What I'm trying to do too is check what's illegal and legal. As the illegal items in the house are used up, I plan on not buying more. My idea is to get used to eating more and more legal foods, and less and less of the illegal, so that by the time we're ready to do the diet 100%, it won't seem as hard. There are plenty of the legal foods that we like so I'm trying to focus on that.

I'm also trying to read through recipes and get a list going of items I will need to buy or look out for, so I can add to my pantry as I can.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Loon,*

That bf'ing post wasn't mine but I think everything in it was correct, except for the fact that salivatory amylase was said to go away. It does not... we all have it. Carbs and sugars begin to break down in saliva. If we all chewed our food, esp. carbs much more and concentrated on bathing them with saliva, we would digest better.

My personal opinion, based on nothing else but that, is you shouldn't worry about toxins from die off while bf'ing since your DD is only "checking in with you" and not depending on your for most of her calories. Plus she would probably start eating the same healing diet, with yogurt and other good stuff with you.

DS and I take vitamin C with every meal. Not only is it anti bacterial and anti viral but it also increases liver glutathione, which helps detox the entire body:
http://www.doctormurray.com/newsletter/1-15-2003.htm

Also a couple weeks of echinecea will help boost immune system. You can check www.pecanbread.com for other suggestions to help you both through die off if you experience it.

I think the yogurt is #1 IMHO plus other things you can do in addition to your list on how to ease into SCD:
-substituting honey as your sole sweetner
-soaking any grains you do eat for easier digestion
-using digestive enzymes and/or hydrochloric acid supplements (hcl is for proteins)

Again my personal opinion, is that everyone MAY not need SCD 100%. It's possible that you could greatly improve your digestion just tweaking your diet to include only a few changes. But if you do believe your digestion really needs fixing, the quicker you can be 100% SCD, the quicker you will probably heal. The whole premise of SCD is predicated on starving out the bad gut bugs, if you continue to give them food they will never fully retreat back into submission (being overtaken and kept in check in the future by a larger percentage of the good bacteria).

http://www.pecanbread.com/scdscience.html

DS and I did get markedly better on a standard Elimination Diet, then stalled and symptoms have lingered now for over a year ... even on a gluten free, sugar free (DS stayed dairy free, I just ate cultured dairy) Rotation diet with probiotics per our naturopath's instructions. So obviously that wasn't working for us and it just prolonged the agony. So I do wish I had heard about SCD sooner.... and if I had to do it all over again knowing what I know now, it would be 100% SCD as soon as I could.

(yeah, yeah, yeah... I'm still drinking kefir though don't know what I'm going to do about that still.)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Digestive enzymes are causing major die off for me I think...

The first day I felt really dizzy even though I was drinking lots of water as usual.

The second day, the big D, all day. Must be cleaning something out. Today I'm better with both symptoms but not great.

I'm afraid to give DS more than a few sprinklings on his food.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
Has anyone seen this web pg? http://www.goss.com/ihcs/treating_eczema.htm

Wow, finally someone speaks the truth. The first sentance certainly got my attention! You know I still feel like I'm crazy to have this opinion b/c so many people don't believe this. (Our Ped for ex.) But in our experience it's absolutely the truth.



_Quote:_

Most Eczema is related to intestinal dysbiosis, food allergy, and leaky gut. Treatment must include gastrointestinal restoration, the 4 "R" program:

Aloe vera is not healing, it contains a toxin that produces diarrhea.

Comfrey goo? :LOL


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Well apparently small posts with quotes can post but larger ones that I spend a long time on (actually doing some thinking) won't... !


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Greencat,*

Wow, you really went through a lot, what a horrible experience that must have been.

I think about my DS's innate gut too... I have read that the gut flora you are born with is the one that you keep









Are you talking about the McCandless book, "Children with Starving Brains"?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...127265-8340866
I will read it as soon as my inter-library loan request comes thru.

I often look to the autism community for wisdom: they know all about poor digestion, gut bugs, behavioral issues/diet connections etc. There is a theory that autism begins in the gut and I have certainly read a great deal about this lately (the thought tends to keep me awake at night). And of course we have LaLa's DD's story as well.

I've just started reading "Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Conditions" right now.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...127265-8340866
It's the author from this website: www.enzymestuff.com

I worry about my DS. He displays some sensory integration disorder traits sometimes, and then of course is his atrocious sleeping habits. He's been waking again at night after having such a good week last week!







He just cannot calm himself down. I know it's related to his "second brain", the gut.

He's not handling any raw fruits or veggies right now and that's not been the case for quite a long time.

I wonder if the bad gut bugs dying makes digestion worse for a while?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Good luck with the dr. Liane! Definately report back, I hope it's a good appt.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
So maybe next for us will be no more corn, soy, citrus, or gluten. It has to be one of these.

I used to think this as well, but I think from our experience it's not one food or a group that DS is "allergic" too, but that his whole immune system is out of whack. 70% of the immune system is in the gut. The intestinal flora make the immonoglobulins. If there are bad bacteria predominating, the immune system therefore does not function correctly... and things like food intolerances and eczema show up.


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Jane, what digestive enzymes are you taking? I'd like to look into those more. I've been following the intro diet (SCD) for 3 days now, 100%. I really can tell that this is going to work. It has been very easy too. Once you get your soup cooked and your yogurt done, you're smooth sailin'. I might just finish the week like this, then slowly add in more fruits and vegetables.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Posted on the Yahoo group Pecanbread:

Quote:

WHY COOKED FRUITS CAN BE EATEN IF A CHILD HAS YEAST
Elaine Gottschall wrote:

If there is an overgrowth of yeast in the bowel, the fruit sugars
should not be feeding them, especially if the fruits are cooked. It is
only the sugars and starches that are not broken down and absorbed
which get to the lower bowel to feed the microbes (yeast and
bacteria). The sugars in fruit are contained within a cell surrounded
by a "fence" cell wall of cellulose which is rigid. When they are
given raw, often the milking action of the small intestine cannot
sufficiently milk out the sugars because of the rigid cell wall and
they are passed on to the lower bowel to feed microbes.

By softening the cell wall with cooking, we will avoid this. I have
seen too many children recover with a balanced diet with the valuable
nutrients of fruits to outlaw fruits.

If you want to experiment, fine. I find I must prioritize each step of
the way and to give up fruit because of the fruit sugar does not sit
well with me because of what I have said above.

Furthermore, the gurues who suggest this often allow grains which are
so bad because the starch is all sugar which is unlikely to be broken
down and absorbed and will feed and overfeed the lower bowel microbes.

INTRODUCING FRUIT
From Two Posts by Sheila:

If you decide to try fruit you should start with cooked, peeled,
deseeded fruit like homemade applesauce or pear sauce. Ripe bananas
(lots of spots on the peel) are also good to start with. When she is
handling that okay then try peeled raw fruit like apple. The most
important thing is to go slow adding new things so you can judge if
she tolerates them well and also in case she does have a reaction that
it won't take to long to rebound from setbacks.

This may sound a bit weird but since Daniel doesn't tolerate any seeds
yet if I am going to give him strawberries I actually cut off the
seeds on the outside and then slice up the rest. I have also been
known to peel grapes for him. He does okay with raw apple but only if
I peel that also. Raw pineapple goes right through but legal canned
pineapple seems okay.

Sheila

[Every child is different,observe your child carefully]
----------------------------------------------------------------------

HONEY Why can have honey and fruit on SCD despite the yeast?.

There are two reasons for this.

1)Honey has predigested sugars which are most likely to cross the
intestinal absorptive surface into the blood steam and thereby be
inaccessible for intestinal yeast and bacteria.(From Elaine)

2)The yeast lives in a biofilm inside our intestines.Biofilms are
comprised of a primary layer of bacteria that provide an attractive
environment for other bacteria and larger organisms

The yeast cannot flourish in our gut without the other gut pathogens

If we cut down on the other gut pathogens with SCD then the yeast
cannot do well.

Below are excerpts from this website:
http://www.mdsg.umd.edu/Education/bi...ntro.htm#intro

What Are Biofilm Communities? Biofilms are a hot topic in microbiology
today. Scientists are studying the ways bacterial colonies form these
slimey layers, which can be resistant to antiobiotics and the immune
system, in hopes that new information will help us understand how the
layers form, adhere to surfaces, and how they can be prevented.

Biofilms moved to the forefront of microbiology after a 1994 case that
involved the infection of hundreds of asthmatics. It was found that
all the asthmatics used the same inhalant contaminated with a
bacterium known as Pseudomonas aeruginosa. This bacterium was able to
survive the routine disinfection of the inhalant during manufacturing
by forming a biofilm comprised of many colonies. The contaminated
inhalers contained pieces of the biofilm which were transported
directly to the lung tissue by the asthmatics. In the lung tissue the
Pseudomonas biofilm was able to flourish. One hundred people died from
the biofilm infection, a dramatic example of the danger posed by some
bacterial biofilms.

Biofilms can be found in many areas of the human body and the
environment. Teeth, intestines, medical devices, contact lenses,
drainage pipes, and the bottoms of ships. The common demoniator is all
the biofilms are comprised of a primary layer of bacteria that provide
an attractive environment for other bacteria and larger organisms.
Biofilms found on the hull of a ship consist of large organisms like
barnacles, mussels, and host of other zooplankton and phytoplankton.
These biofilms slow a ship and are expensive to remove and prevent.
Current methods to prevent biofilm formation on ships include a wide
variety of toxic marine paints. However, these paints tend to wear off
and biofilms which are resistant form on them without regard to the
toxins.

More on biofilms

http://www.uib.no/ums/magazine/teach...m/biolfilm.htm
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/...ms/primer.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tweetybirds2*
Jane, what digestive enzymes are you taking? I'd like to look into those more. I've been following the intro diet (SCD) for 3 days now, 100%. I really can tell that this is going to work. It has been very easy too. Once you get your soup cooked and your yogurt done, you're smooth sailin'. I might just finish the week like this, then slowly add in more fruits and vegetables.

Source Naturals Essential Enzymes
http://www.sourcenaturals.com/products/GP1111.html

I'm saving the Houston enzymes for DS (where's the expensive smilie...)
www.houstonni.com

I'm glad you are doing well... looking forward to a more in depth description for: "I can really tell that this is going to work."


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Jane, thank you so much for your detailed and informative response. Very helpful!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
That bf'ing post wasn't mine

Yes, I realized that later on and edited my post above.







Sorry about that!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
My personal opinion, based on nothing else but that, is you shouldn't worry about toxins from die off while bf'ing since your DD is only "checking in with you" and not depending on your for most of her calories. Plus she would probably start eating the same healing diet, with yogurt and other good stuff with you.

My knee-jerk reaction is always to ask "Is this safe for breastfeeding?"








I'm of the opinion now that this really doesn't seem too different from an elimination diet. I'm avoiding certain foods and changing to other foods, so I think we're safe for the most part.

I also hope that decreasing the illegal foods will hopefully lessen the die-off when the time comes. I am trying to eat "legal" foods for the most part. It certainly can't hurt.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Again my personal opinion, is that everyone MAY not need SCD 100%. It's possible that you could greatly improve your digestion just tweaking your diet to include only a few changes. But if you do believe your digestion really needs fixing, the quicker you can be 100% SCD, the quicker you will probably heal.

Agreed.

Truthfully, I was looking into SCD for DH. His digestive problems are pretty grim and he's been like this for years, even before I knew him. He eliminates so fast sometimes after eating, that I really don't understand how he is absorbing anything.







He also has abdominal pain, cramping, bloating, painful elimination and the description of his bms are scary.
I discussed SCD with him and he says it makes sense and is willing to try it.

For myself and dd, I think our digestion is okay for the most part, but only okay. (And I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that and being here on this thread!!







: ) I have actually tweaked things in the past with good results, but there are still some things "off". I have tried to track things in both mine and dd's diet and I can't seem to trace anything specific, although we both seem to have on and off problems.

So I figured it would be easier for DH







and beneficial for all of us to do the SCD together.


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

I was browsing a great SCD site: The Healing Crow and they have an FAQ section called "SCD wisdom".
I did a search for nursing and something came up.

The mom who asked the question mentioned that her son cheats a little bit on the diet. Here's the part of Elaine's answer, italics are my emphasis: (oh and the direct link to the whole question and answer, in case anyone's interested ---> here )

Quote:

I know one thing: if he sticks to the diet for 99% of his caloric intake and then eats some french fries, it will not work. I do not know why this is so but it has been illustrated many times. A Mother nursing her baby with baby only on cereal - baby had diarrhea and grande mal epileptic siezures often - bad ones. _We consulted and decided to put the nursing mother on the diet_ and, of course take away the cereal and replace with a tiny bit of mashed banana. He began getting well in about 6-7 days; the siezures became less frequent and the diarrhea began clearing up.








Yeah, I can do the diet! Now granted my dd is not having anywhere near a severe reaction as grande mal seizures, for which I am very grateful. But since DD is not an infant but pretty much a preschooler and not *exclusively* nursing, I see no reason why I or even other nursing moms cannot do the diet.

HOWEVER, if anyone finds anything contradictory, please let me know ASAP!


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Good luck with the dr. Liane! Definately report back, I hope it's a good appt.

I used to think this as well, but I think from our experience it's not one food or a group that DS is "allergic" too, but that his whole immune system is out of whack. 70% of the immune system is in the gut. The intestinal flora make the immonoglobulins. If there are bad bacteria predominating, the immune system therefore does not function correctly... and things like food intolerances and eczema show up.

You know, I'm really starting to believe this. I kind of have blinders on because I think that if I eliminate the magic food she will get better. I'll come around eventually! I'm just so skeptical, having been drawn into the blood type diet and the Okinawan diet (written by twin doctors, does anyone know what I am talking about?) I would check but I got rid of the book, too impossible. Omg how could I forget the blood sugar diet? You know, the one with watching the GI of foods and such...I'm such a sucker for fad diets so really trying to read a lot about it. My SCD book came today and I am looking forward to reading more about the theory behind the diet.

The doctor's appt went well, I'm glad I brought in the week's journal of food consumption because that really seemed to help. So for now I'm doing an elimination diet and upping the probiotic doses for us. Oh yeah, and stool sample on Sunday night! I hope I can get a good mucousy one so she'll know what I have been so worried about. But maybe her poop will get a little better by then, that would be even better!

Oh, I have a big important question(s) for everyone! What do you do on vacation? I'm going to visit a friend in Canada, I can cook all my own food but what do I do about my probiotics and CLO? Do you have capsules on hand that are stable at room temp? I have a lot of travelling to do to get there, I don't think I can handle a cooler w/ ice because it's just me and the baby. I wish I never made the reservations now, but I need to get away--I'll be gone 2 weeks.
Thanks!
Liane

Ps I can never reply to other mama's posts because I don't know anything, but I am thinking about you all and wishing you all good poop and digestion!


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
The doctor's appt went well, I'm glad I brought in the week's journal of food consumption because that really seemed to help. So for now I'm doing an elimination diet and upping the probiotic doses for us.

Liane, so glad the appointment went well. And wishing you good poop and digestion, too. :LOL What a greeting for each other, huh?









As for the probiotics, I was taking Jarrow Formulas EPS a few months ago. One of the reasons I chose them was because they specify "ideal for travleing when refrigeration is not readily available." (I haven't taken them in a long while so I don't know if it's something that would be SCD "legal", if you eventually start the diet).
Otherwise, is there anywhere near where your friend lives where you'd be able to pick up some probiotics or CLO or even have them delivered there? Hmmm,







: that might not be practical though if you only need a 2-week supply. Just trying to brainstorm here!

Now regarding supplements in general: I just ordered some more prenatals with iron, calcium/magnesium supplements, and some fish oil. I ordered these last week before I found this thread. But I haven't received them yet, so I can still return them if necessary.
What's recommended for SCD? I got the idea from what info I've found so far that the diet is healthy enough that some eventually don't need supplements, but I'm not ready to take that route yet. The Healing Crow website talks about Freeda Vitamins.
Suggestions?


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Greencat - The important part is that you survived and now have found a way to heal your gut. I'd say you're doing better than 99% of people in the same situation. You've come a long way mama







!

Liane - It's o.k. to take your own time and path to gut healing. Jane and I both did elimination/rotation diets and took a about a year to find the SCD and then implement it. IMO it's the only way to true gut healing, but you have to walk your own path in your time. We'll be here to help and encourage you along the way to beautiful poops







. Oh, someone will read your post one day and be encouraged because they will be going through the same thing - you will be helping someone else through a rough spot!

By the way - I just love this thread. It's so encouraging to see mamas seeking the best for their babes regardless of how hard it might prove to be







.

Loon13 - Thanks for sharing the BF info you found on Healing Crow. I love that site and need to do more reading.

Mylittlewonders - thanks for sending the grains







.

Jane - I do agree with you as far as the MD suggesting way too many supplements manufactured by Rubin's company. I just ignored that part, but it did make me a bit skeptical. I bought the primal deffense and only gave 3 doses. I actually read MD before NT so it was my first read that encouraged using live, raw, organic, and free range foods to heal the gut. That is why I loved it so much. I also think he brings about important issues like chlorine in our bathing water. I've read that our skin absorbs 20% of what we put on it. I can't help but think this includes chlorinated water. I suppose there was a good chunk of the book that I ignored







, and implemented what I could with Sierra.

So, I took a little break from the thread because I had to figure out why Sierra had a setback. I hope that my mistakes







: will benefit some other mama. I do believe that the green tipped bananas were giving her some disaccharides that kept her gut from cruising down the path of healing. Much like the french fry comment that Elaine made in Loon13's post re : BM. She then got her the illegal supplements and lack of enzymes which I think just pushed her over the edge. I started her back on the intro and she was still vomiting undigested food that she had 5 hours before despite giving her enzymes with every meal and snack. Jane questioned her HCL and gave me an idea for a little research. I started her on lemon juice (1 tsp mixed with 1/2 oz grape juice and 1/2 oz spring water) 30 minutes before eating ( the lemon juice causes the body to secrete salivary enzymes and HCL) and this seems to be doing the trick along with the enzymes. I now understand that her little gut (and perhaps her HCL production) was so injured a year ago that she began vomiting because everything was just sitting in her stomach unable to be digested. I now realize that the reason my then 8 mo old baby started to put her hand in the back of her throat was to relieve the feeling of fullness. I could never figure that one out before. It amazes me that such a young one could have such an injured gut, but it shows the harm that vaccines and antacid medications can bring to a weakened GI system.

Peace and happy poops to all







,


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

JaneS. Monecea: Thanks for the reply. Regarding the web page, I wish it gave a bit more clear instructions and explanations to what those remedies listed are. I have no idea what some of the remedies listed, and I will not do Aloe on my kids; they are too young, and it is on the illegal list of SCD.

Does anyone have advice on how to go about getting the poo or hair analysis done?


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Greencat - The CDSA (poo test) is performed by Great Smokies Lab

http://www.gsdl.com/home/assessments...ms/gastro.html

You could ask your doc about it or just contact the company to see if they will send you the test kit directly. I found the written analysis very well explained and easy to read.

Peace,


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Sorry for the TMI this post contains

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK I have a major question for y'all.........is it utterly NORMAL at 10 months with 2 teeth that I can look in his diaper this AM and tell what I fed him at 5 PM last night? I mean whole grains of rice, a few tomato bits, etc. I called his ped to see what they say out of curiosity more than anything. I would THINK that even if he doesn't chew real well stomach acid might have an effect??? I've changed a lot of daycare diapers and um I think you can tell more on my son what he's eaten than most his age...........I have seen others where I could 'tell' on some things too, but what I don't know is what's 'normal' due to not being able to chew real well, etc and what's not.

Sorry for the TMI!!

Then I posted saying ped called and said it's normal and not to worry........but *I* Thought it meant I probably should NOT give him rice for awhile yet personally.

I had him in to ped today too, a different one, the on call for the afternoon and she said it's 'toddler's diarrhea' it's apparently normal in this age range, up to about 3....?? The thing is, he doesn't have watery bm's or anything, they're usually pretty normal in terms of firm, just you can tell what he ate usually.

COOKED tomatoes do not show up in the diaper. Raw DO. Rice does. I honestly don't know how much of this is related to non chewing ability and how much is yeast or something, and how much of it is age--just that some babies are 'ready' for things younger than others. (like grains, the homeopath said not until AT LEAST 10 mos, and if I saw a problem (and to me, that would include it looking the same coming out as going in pretty much....to quit giving it for at least another month.) )

Any thoughts?? Please answer, I posted this awhile ago and nobody said anything....


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

What I am foggy on Great Smokey is the price for what test. My chiro is ordering the kit for us, but she thinks this is something I can not do on my own, since she had to give her license number, etc. I don't know which analysis would be the one for us (beside yeast.) I have Peds for emergency (since this MD had small surgical room for minor suture, etc. and took kids who are not and will not be vaccinated), but only seen her once when we interviewed. I guess, I just don't know what to ask, and when is the good time to send the sample, especially now we already have started the SCD... I am also aware of Kirkman Lab for enzymes, etc. etc.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Zeker's: As far as poo for the baby, I saw green things mixed in'em when I ate broccoli, and red pigments when I ate strawberries. My DD did not start the solids till 8mo, and DS until 7mo. We always had problems with constipations (my DD did not pass anything for 7days after the meconium.) We got better as we stopped eating wheat, but still no movement every day. In terms of watery poo in young babies are related to low fat contents in the breast milk. These babies usually have low weight gain, and may need supplementation. Sorry, I couldn't be of much help...


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

I have tried the Lasagna with zucchini for pasta. I learned the recipe from my Italian friend, and we always cocked the zucchini before we layered with meat, tomato sauce, etc. and I always added sliced of cooked eggplants as well. (but no tofu for now







) If you have a V-slicer, it will be easier. Cook the eggplant as well before you lay them in the pan to bake'm in the oven. I also add load of garaahhhhhlic, onion and minced carrots.

We are now on the binge of "brownies" with almond flour, coconut oil and pare. The recipe is really good if the pairs are very ripe.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

see with Z it has nothing to do with what I eat......I gave up exclusive pumping.









He has *never* had a constipation problem. Maybe once or twice I've started to worry and given him a bit of extra water but that's it, it's never been more than 2 days and plain water's always worked.

and that's the thing I just can't decide if I should go so extreme as to restrict him to SCD.........part of me thinks a lot of what I am seeing with him is AGE he doesn't have the mucus of some of the babies or diarrhea (well tonight he had a slightly soupier than normal poo but he's also teething and ear infection...) It's not the NORM for him to have diarrhea. He only had it before I figured out it was dairy causing it. Now he doesn't get it

Plus it's hard enough for me to keep his dad from giving him stuff with dairy and wheat and now rice. (wheat has never caused him a problem homeopath just said it would be best if he stayed off it till at least a year so I dont' give it.) I could NEVER keep Z only on SCD partly because I just don't know how I'd fit all the dang special food making in.......


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

http://www.directlabs.com/

This service will provide a doctor to order the test for you. They are very nice. They send to Great Smokies as well as other labs. You can call and consult with them as to which test to order with the symptoms you have as well.

The hair test to test mercury, lead, aluminum and other heavy metals as well as minerals such as potassium, calcium, etc. is called the Hair Elements test. How to use it to test mercury load in the body is explained here:
http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html

DS and I are waiting for our hair results back.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loon13*
For myself and dd, I think our digestion is okay for the most part, but only okay. (And I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that and being here on this thread!!







: )

Not at ALL... we are naturally going to be at different points on the same path. We are here to learn from each other.









I'm glad your DH is going to join you, it sounds to me like it may just save his life. I don't mean to be so dramatic, but Jordan Rubin's story is fresh in my mind, pretty scary.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

The idea of the SCD is that it's healthy enough so you do not need supplements unless you have a special concern.

Grains really don't have any special nutrients unto themselves that other food does not. And really they are being replaced by nuts, vegetables and fruit, which are much more nutrient dense.

My concern is calcium b/c DS is **** dairy free. Almonds contain 66mg of calcium per oz. but I don't think DS eats enough, so we are supplementing for now until I can get the dairy situation figured out. Which will be done after I figure out enzymes, etc etc.









Speaking of enzymes, the word on the street is that Houston's enzymes are much more effective than Kirkman so that is why I'm going with those for DS.

The book "Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Disorders" is fabulous, a must read for the description of leaky gut and how to treat.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Melanie,*

I'm sorry I thought I answered this a while ago...

Cooked tomatoes and any cooked veggies are easier to digest than raw b/c the heat breaks down the outer cell wall which otherwise would require action by digestive enzymes and villi.

Rice, wheat and all other grains, corn, sugar and potatoes not allowed on the SCD are difficult to digest b/c their structure is multi celled, called disaccharides. The undigested carbs ferment in the intestine and become food for the bad bacteria.

Yes, chewing probably has something to do with it at this age, but the lack of chewing does not cause mucus in the stool or other allergic reactions. If you have seen evidence of food intolerance other than whole food particles in his diaper that's when I think you should be concerned about restricting his diet.

It may be that he will "grow out of this" meaning that his intestinal flora will go towards the balance of good bacteria vs. bad as time goes on. Or perhaps he will not recover from it and the undigested food, dairy and wheat will be a contributor to a bigger percentage of bad bacteria, what Moneca and I are dealing with with our DC now. I think you have to use your mother's intuition and close inspection of diaper contents







to figure out what is going on with your guy and proceed accordingly.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

And to add to Moneca's post, I'm giving my DS lemonade made with fresh lemon juice and honey and spring water before his meals with protein too. He seems to be going well with it and he LOVES it ...of course the kid likes to just suck on a lemon slice too, saying, "Oooooo, too sour!" after every bite.









My mom gave him a piece of her bread yesterday too ...when I took 2 minutes to go to the bathroom









She now sees him eating things like pancakes and cookies once in a while (SCD legal) which he's never had before and it just slipped her mind. He seems to be okay today though. I gave him extra enzymes.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
I have tried the Lasagna with zucchini for pasta. I learned the recipe from my Italian friend, and we always cocked the zucchini before we layered with meat, tomato sauce, etc. and I always added sliced of cooked eggplants as well. If you have a V-slicer, it will be easier.

We are now on the binge of "brownies" with almond flour, coconut oil and pare. The recipe is really good if the pairs are very ripe.

That's a great idea re: zucchini, our farmer's market has gigundo squashes this time of year. This is also the only way DS will eat eggplant, I have to make a small casserole just for him w/o cheese.

Yesterday I made almond cookies and added anise flavoring







taste just like the Italian cookies I miss so much!


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

See that's the thing, I don't see mucous-y stuff or anything like that, and other than bits of certain foods (uncooked, grains, and when I fed him lima beans, the skin) 99% of the time his stools look normal. EVERY kid has an occasional loose stool, so does Z. (By OCCASIONAL I mean like so infrequent you can't even say it's once a week or any kind of predictability) He also had them in the past when he was given dairy. BUT loads of people have babies with dairy issues and their babies outgrow it without SCD. Most of the time, by a year or 2 years, they can handle it.

He also had a little issue with pineapple. Silly mommy didn't count pineapple as a citrus for some reason and you aren't SUPPOSED to feed citrus before a year anyway because MOST babies have issues with it apparently....

BUT then I just talked to my friend whose baby is 10 days older than mine. She feeds her baby EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING the rest of them eat--well, as long as he can chew it, and he does better in the chewing dept. cause he has SIX teeth to Z's two......and she said she has NEVER been able to tell what he ate before just by looking at his diaper the next day. Not with rice, not with anything.
I also notice if I'm the one who gives him a bit of raw tomato, *I* don't give him the skin, which I think would be the hardest to digest (and chew!) and I don't notice it on the other end.... (well I don't think he gets citrus yet or eggs or glasses of milk, but he gets cheese and even ice cream he's had. I mean just about everything he gets.)

but then I said well I have seen it in daycare kids, but it's usually like corn or maybe grape skins or something.......and she said 'well with corn that even happens with older kids and adults isn't that normal kind of?' (Not a LOT but like the occasional kernel or something) I said 'I don't know....'

and we were talking about the fact that even if he doesn't really chew, I mean WE probably don't chew every grain of rice we eat either.....shouldn't his stomach acid or something along the digestion be breaking it down? Does it work that way for a baby? Do we get more digestive 'stuff' as we grow from newborn to toddler to kid so then it all starts 'working' and some people just don't adjust as fast as others?

So we are right back where we started...........the thing is, it's SO HARD to know what is 'normal' and what is a damaged gut situation that's just unidentified.

The thing is when I think 'diarrhea' and everything passing through too fast to be digested, I would think I'd be changing several dirty runny diapers a day. And I'm not. It's 1-2 a day and not typically runny or anything at all. So then that means rice or whatever sits in there awhile.....I would think. Which CAN'T be good. And probably means I shouldn't feed him rice for awhile.

The other thing that's hard is there's NO info I've found on doing this diet particularly under a year but even under 2 years. I won't give him nuts this early, that seems to be asking for trouble! Eggs under a year, even giving meat to a young baby. And for someone like me who couldn't bf, is formula then SCD legal? (I know full well some of what I'm seeing is probably CAUSED by early formula intro and I will REFUSE it next time. I can't go back now.)

Would they be missing key nutrients without nuts included in the diet at all? What about formula, is it SCD legal? Illegal? What do you then give to drink? Can't give milk. Can't give rice milk. Does coconut milk have everything they need? (I KNOW these are questions moms who are lucky enough to have great support starting bf'ing so they're sitll doing it don't have to ask.....I wish I didn't either.) Where do they then get the fats they need?

Over age 2-3, it seems like an OK diet, it's not so crucial they get all that fat. You can introduce nuts and they're less likely to have a big allergic reaction.

I just don't know what to think for under age 2.
But then I think ya know if I did this starting right now for 6 months, that would mean by 18 months we would be DONE and he could have whatever he wanted. Even if we did it a year, he'd be done by age 2. It's MUCH easier to restrict a one year old than a 2 year old.

But I'm worried he'd miss out on something he needs since I wouldn't be giving him nuts. (at a year I'd try the dairy and eggs, he's 11 months the 8th of Sept.) And it IS more restrictive than just saying 'don't give him raw veggies' and 'don't give him rice'

But if this isn't a 'grow out of it' thing then I'm not solving any problems.

How much is that test? That might give me some answers......


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

JaneS: Thanks for the info on hair and poo testing. I never heard of Huston, but will check into Kirkman’s supplements once the testing is done. Regarding calcium, what I believe is that the calcium from dairy are difficult to absorb since they are mostly processed, or if raw; not species correct—meaning, cow’s milk is for calves and not for human consumption; that is rather than eating for pleasure. The veggies and nuts may have smaller amount of calcium, but they are better absorbed. Another thing about calcium is that it is better absorbed if you consume with vit.c, and equal amount or more of sugar intake will diminish the C value. So, I think SCD is very wise diet for most people in general, including dieters and for the eating d/o.


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Melanie, I'll just throw some ideas out at ya.

What about giving him warm bone broth in his bottle or sippy cup for a few of the feedings? There is calcium and all sorts of nutrients in broth that are easily absorbable and heal the gut.
I personally think egg yolks from free range chickens are fine to feed babies. I would hold off on the grains until at least most of his teeth are in, if possible. Bananas, avacado, and cooked fruits and veggies. I think that would be a great diet for a baby. I don't know what to tell you about the milk/formula problem, except for the bone broth idea for some of the supplementing.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Since Houston's has come up again...
I spoke with Dr. Devin Houston P.H.D. in chemical biology this week. I asked him about protease killing the good bacteria. He indicated that he had never found this in any of his work or research. He believes it is just a marketing tactic by companies such as Pure Essence Labs to see more product. Andrew on the Healing Crow Yahoo group also suggests HN Zyme Prime and Peptizide as opposed to the SCD Zyme Prime and No Fenol. He has taken many enzymes in his years on the SCD and finds that these two in conjunction are the most effective. The ingredient list says that they contain rice bran, but Andrew said that it was rice bran oil. I called HNI and found that it is only rice bran oil and actually SCD legal. They had discussed this with Elaine and she also agreed that it was a SCD legal product. Her concern was that people would think that all rice bran was o.k. and that is why she still asked them to formulate the SCD specific enzymes with cellulose. I'm trying Sierra on the new enzymes and will let you know how things progress.
Caution about lemon juice. We gave a bit much at first and ended up with diarrhea which is very rare for Bear. 1 tsp before meals seems to be a good amount for her.
Jane - Interesting that you experienced die-off with the enzymes. I think it was on enzymestuff.com that I read enzymes help to heal the gut. Never imagined they would cause die-off.
During our repeat intro Bear's weepy eczema behind her ears started to improve. 1st day off the intro gave her banana pancakes (legal bananas) and it flared within an hour of eating. I believe her eczema if from yeast overgrowth as it flares when the yeast rash in her pit and bellybutton becomes aggrivated. I think that her decreased HCL may make bananas too much for her system right now until there is some healing. I gave her zucchini bread today instead of banana cakes and I did not see the normal eczema flare and hour after breakfast.

Peace,


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
Regarding calcium, what I believe is that the calcium from dairy are difficult to absorb since they are mostly processed, or if raw; not species correct-meaning, cow's milk is for calves and not for human consumption; that is rather than eating for pleasure. The veggies and nuts may have smaller amount of calcium, but they are better absorbed. Another thing about calcium is that it is better absorbed if you consume with vit.c, and equal amount or more of sugar intake will diminish the C value. So, I think SCD is very wise diet for most people in general, including dieters and for the eating d/o.

Ahh, you can't say that about milk to a Weston Price gal!









Not of what you mentioned applies to raw milk, only pasteurized... raw is excellent for the teeth, bones and immune system, the calcium is absorbed easily. Maybe it is also b/c raw has all the vitamin C intact! (Heat pasteurization kills the C).

We are in a dairy co-op and get the most fabulous pasture fed organic raw milk and cheese from western Mass. We also have a source of raw goat's milk 1/2 hr away from us, which I will use when I'm ready to start DS on his big dairy trial. I hope someday he'll be healed and slurping raw milk straight up.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Melanie,*

What exactly are your DS symptoms and why are you concerned about his gut?

Is it mostly his dairy allergy?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Moneca,*

I'm psyched you talked to Dr. Houston! Thank you so much for clearing that up. Karen from EnzymeStuff.com says try it and see what works for you, but it seems like you got a definitive answer. Since whole foods like yogurt would trigger enzyme production anyway, it makes sense the probiotics would survive.

I just have HN Zyme Prime and No Fenol...I wasn't sure about the Peptizide. I was so confused when I ordered. So I should probably get that one too huh?

I figured DS with his sensitivity to veggies and fruits, sleep issues and yeast issues sounded like he would need the No Fenol for sure. I did read that about the rice bran oil so I did get that version.

The more I read that book, the more excited I get... they have so many uses for a leaky gut. I hope that enzymes will get us over the hump here. DS seems to be doing well so far but I've been going very slow... did you start Sierra on one capsule right away?

I want "The Happy Child Effect" !!!








http://www.enzymestuff.com/discussionadjustments.htm


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## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

Just wanted to let you whom may be interested know that my article in Living Without is running in this publication (Sept?)
I just got mine in yesterdays mail









It is about Bean's journey and mentions the SCDiet, but focuses more on gluten and how it caused her to react in terms of behavior changes and diarrhea.

Nothing new to most of you!
LOL

Mothering will be running an article (or they hope to be) on curing autism. I look forward to reading that one when it runs!

On a side note, my sisters say "wow you have been published again, that's great!"
I have to laugh because it is not my poetry or anything particularly witty or lovely that I Have written that gets published...it is typically articles on poop, diapers, or making natural stuff!







:

















--

On unrelated note to that, I must say that while I agree with much of the Price foundation info, I an NOT a dairy fan. I just don't see it as a beneficial food, especially for babies and toddlers, but that is probably my own bias as I have been so reactive to dairy for so many years. If it didn't make me so incredibly ill (diarrhea, fever, chills, naseua, vomitting occassionally), perhaps I would not respond with such caution.
In any light, we have done well without dairy and have even added goats milk and sheep milks, which are even easier for many with dairy allergies to digest. Both of which can often be found in raw format in farming areas.









My friend, Shannon, was telling me about water kefir as an option to get those live enzymes by creating a self cultivating culture that you then drink in the form of a bubbley water drink.
Of course, the hard part is getting someone to send you a starter culture! LOL
But i think this is a good option for somone who wants that live culture without the actual dairy.

If anyone has some, by the way, feel free to mail it my way!


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

JaneS. Thanks for clarifying/differentiating the raw milk vs. dairy in general. I used to live in Arkansas where I drunk fresh milk out of cow (I don't know if they were completely 'organic' but were glazing), still warm with fat and form on top---M! M! M! How wonderful that milk was, and it is nothing like what you'll find on shelves. I'm sure you can say the same about sheep and goat's milk that are not pasteurized.







However, like LaLa, we are not the family who can process dairy well. We constipate, get dark circles under the eyes, itchy, gargley throat with lots of mucous, swollen sinus and coughs-I don't know why, but then, why are we such wonderful hosts for the yeast? I may try to venture out to get raw goat or sheep's milk in the future, but I am trying to profect the home made yogurt for now: Wish me luck!

LaLa: I'm still waiting for the starter for the Kiefer water







:
And, big congratulations to your article being published.
I'll be sure to pick up the copy!!





















:




























:









In mean while, my DD stopped having the "tummy ache." I am hoping this was the initial "die off" period, and she is over with this. Also, I always used filtered water to drink and cook, but buying another dispenser for 5gal. jug/bottle of natural, spring water for drinking. I switched table salt for natural sea salt, and getting back to 'green juice.' I'm not there yet, regarding enzymes and supplements, since I don't know what is exactly going on with my tots' guts (i.e. yeast, probably, but also metal?) So, instead of adding things that I am not sure for what, I am adding more of 'natural' food.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I've been lurking for awhile, and am pretty new to the whole concept of healing the gut, SCD, so please bear with me. I started looking into food allergies/intolerances for a couple of reasons -- ds has strong negative digestive reactions to foods, also I have PCOS, which one theory goes is actually caused by food allergy (and I also recently noticed my own digestive problems). I have had yeast infections frequently in the past, although none since ds was born (I did have one or two while I was pg with him, though).

DS had thrush as a newborn, and in fact struggled with it for several months before finally becoming relatively asymptomatic around six months. He was always a fussy, easily awakened baby, and is highly senstive. He has many symptoms of sensory integration issues, including extreme sensitivity to sounds, textures, and touch along with difficulty with transitions, sleep, and high levels of separation and stranger anxiety (I can't leave him with anyone, even my dh, most of the time, and he has to nurse any time I talk to anyone else). He has always been on the low end of the weight charts despite being tall for his age (he's 38 1/2 inches at 2 1/2 but still under 30 pounds according to our bathroom scale). He is somewhat of a picky eater, and also sometimes doesn't appear to digest some of his food.

One thing I wanted to add was that I think he has mercury problems. He had the first couple of rounds of vaccines including the two month one with four shots, and also I had the flu shot when I was pregnant with him (I also had gotten the flu shot every year for several years before that because I have asthma), and I have multiple mercury fillings and used to eat a lot of commercial albacore tuna before I found out it was high in mercury (and that that was really bad). So there's probably a lot of mercury in his system along with the candida.

I was wondering whether I should have him tested for various things or just go ahead and jump in with the SCD. I know the decision is up to me, but I was hoping to get some help from those who have BTDT. It's so confusing with so much info out there, a lot of it conflicting.

Thanks so much!


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Welcome to the tribe







: I identify with what you are saying about some of the behavior that you have described about your tot. I never knew why DD was such a crank some times without an obvious reason, or not sleeping well, etc. As we found out and omitted all the "flair up foods," her behavior also changed for better, and now both my DD and DS are eczema free. We always had problem with yeast over-growth, and that is why I am doing the SCD, without any tests had been done. However, I am looking into sending fecal or/and hair sample for metal, yeast, bad bacteria, etc analysis- so we can decide what enzyme or supplements to give them.


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

Hi Jennifer! So sorry you are going through this with your son, I hope you find some help and good advice here.

Well, throw another log on the fire for us over here. I think Micah is allergic to our dog. She's been getting hives a couple times and I could not figure out why since I am no longer eating any "allergic" foods. Everytime I give her to my dad to watch it is usually on our old junky couch (the dog sits up on it all the time) in front of the tv and she ends up rolling around in the couch. Shortly after her face gets really itchy and she starts screeching and looking really uncomfortable. This always happens in the evening before bed because I let my dad watch her for 10-15 minutes. Her face is almost always red after I take her back to our room, I never made the connection before but now I am pretty sure it is the dog. I hardly ever pet the dog and do not let her near the dog because I don't think dogs and babies mix well, so maybe that is why I never noticed it before. The dog is also not allowed in our room. At least we have tile in the kitchen so when she starts crawling she won't be crawling around in the dog's hair. Anyway, just thought I would share. Also, I read on the internet that symptoms can take up to 6 months to appear. Do any of your babes get hives from animals?

So I got a good poop sample! It's in the fridge so I can take it to the doctor tomorrow. I've never been so glad we EC before, at least I didn't have to scrape it off her butt. By the way, she only pooped twice today, and they were not runny at all!!! Yay! This is a big improvement over five or six times a day.

I'll report back and let you all know what happens with the poop!
Liane


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
*Melanie,*

What exactly are your DS symptoms and why are you concerned about his gut?

Is it mostly his dairy allergy?

Mostly the dairy yeah but also the fact that I'm seeing stuff come back through in his diaper. Nobody can really tell me if that's a typical age thing or something I should worry about. I've read a few places though that kids aren't ready to digest grains even as long as 2 years.......it's just near IMPOSSIBLE not to give any at all.......like last night we went to a buffet and it was so easy to just grab a breadstick and let the babies split that to keep them happy till we got our other food LOL.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Jennifer







,
Welcome! Glad to see you came over from the allergy board







. Every mama has to walk their own path - as you can see there are several mamas on this board that are trying to accumulate information before taking the plunge to commit to the SCD. I searched and tried too many natural products, elim/rotation diets, tests, and alternative practicioners over the course of 10 months before finding the SCD. If I could do it over and would have had the wisdom to do so, I would have started with the SCD immed. Dd's digestion just continued to get worse over time so that we have a lot more healing to do now than if we had started a year ago. I have found that nothing will heal the gut if you don't remove the food source for the microbes (yeast and detrimental bacteria). You are ahead of the game IMO as far as connecting your amalgams and other mercury exposure to your digestive issues. Jane and I have been discussing this for a bit on pm and will probably write about it on this thread once we have a bit more personal facts to share. We'll be here to help you figure it out in your own time







.

Liane - I'm so sorry to hear about the dog allergy







. That would be the worst for me. Sometimes I think I







my furry babe as much as the hairless one :LOL. Glad to hear you're seeing some improvement in the poop area!

Elizabeth - Where are you? How is Selkie?

Peace,


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

: *Jennifer!*

Moneca describes the process of the whole journey very well. Sometimes I feel like if I hadn't made so many mistakes, I wouldn't be so committed and sure of myself now. Or maybe I'm just dense and need it beaten into me. :LOL

But the more I read, the more certain that we are on the right path. Keep at it, you will know the right thing to do. Tests do help if you are unsure what is going on. The problem with tests is interpreting them: both Moneca and I had stool tests done on our babes which were showing high counts of pathogenic bacteria. But back then, we had no idea what to do about it!

Your DS sounds so very similar to mine. There's certainly nothing harmful in jumping right into SCD. It will be hard work, but whatever you learn along the way might get you closer to a solution, whatever it may be. It is reported to help with everything you mention: behavioral problems, food intolerances, yeast issues and heavy metal issues.

At the risk of being ostracized for mentioning this in every single freakin' message of mine lately... you should read Karen DeFelice's book too: www.enzymestuff.com

One of my dear friends has PCOS and I researched a great deal about it with her, she went through a lot to have her twins. I never came across food allergy cause though, that's very interesting b/c she has digestive issues and IBS too. I understood it to be insulin resistance... but now I read more about enzymes and the pancreas' function in digestion and it really is all intertwined.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Greencat,*

Nice to hear such a good report... you are well on your way.








This stuff takes time to set up and decide on a plan and then put it into action.

Speaking of dairy allergies, I just talked to my local WAPF leader and she said she drinks raw milk just fine after her and her DH and DD being completely intolerant of the pasteurized stuff. (I've always read this but it's nice to have a real life person say it too.) Although now that I have learned more about digestion, I also believe it depends on what kind of shape your gut is in too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Doing the Good Poop Dance for Micah!


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Hi, Jennifer.









My dd also has some sensory issues and sleep issues, but nothing that the doctors here concerned about, so it's hard for me to get help from them. I'm going a lot by my gut instinct if you will, because she is low weight and seems to crave bread, pasta, waffles, pizza, and ice cream. Some around here say that is a typical kid, but she's craving all dairy and carbs, so I'm worried. Also, I do have some amalgam fillings and dd is vaxed, though it was on a delayed schedule and we didn't get the flu shot or varicella (chicken pox one).

I would like to get some testing, from direct labs and such, because I think that kind of personal information is good to have on hand. It would certainly be something I could then show to the doctor to back up my worries.

So I'm looking into it, but I'm still going to go ahead with the diet in the meantime.As far as I can see, SCD and healing our guts can only be beneficial. So I am willing to commit to it.

Hope that adds some food for thought. [Oops, no pun intended!







]


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

loon13: Have you read "Not Otherwise Specified"?


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

For those with children with possible Sensory Integration Dysfunction :

Just wanted to let you know that Early Intervention is a wonderful national program that also happens to be free. My ped at the time told me to call. I found the local number and just told them my doc had suggested I call. They set up the screening process to see if Bear would meet criteria. A PT, OT, ST, and a child development specialist all came to the house seperately to eval Bear because we did not have a second car at the time. They were all wonderful. I thought she may have some SID issues, but tested negative. She qualified for speech therapy. A ST comes to our house twice per week to work with Bear for free







. You could at least get the eval from an OT for SID to see if your child even fits. Just something I wanted to pass on







. The following link is for NY early intervention program. Just google your state and early intervention together to find one in your area.

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/eip/

Peace,


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
loon13: Have you read "Not Otherwise Specified"?

Greencat: No I haven't read it. What can you tell me about it?







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca*
For those with children with possible Sensory Integration Dysfunction :
Just wanted to let you know that Early Intervention is a wonderful national program that also happens to be free.

Moneca: Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I don't think it's available in the area overseas where we are now.







It's so frustrating that the military would send its members and dependents to a place where they can't even offer us basic services.








I'll keep looking around, though!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Will they come to my house and put DS to sleep for naps and bedtime??? :LOL


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

The Early Intervention Program sounds like a good one to keep in mind. The book, “…Not Otherwise Specified” by Dr. Joan Fallon also mentions about it in N.Y. This book is about PDD (Pervasive Developmental Disorder): What is it, how to look for the signs, interventions, etc. Since the spectrum of ADD, ADDH to autism is so wide, it is not only difficult to diagnose, but uncharted. Hence, they use a term PDD-NOS on DMS-IV. The book explains each sensory integration and PDD spectrum, along with check list. I keep this book as reference, so I’ll know when to get the crew of OT, etc, beside keep working on the gut issues.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I have heard about early intervention, actually called the county about it, they said there is a place they refer people to for an eval, but you have to get your kid's ped to refer you so it's covered by insurance, and I don't currently have a ped for ds, so I've been putting it off. I really should look into it more before he turns 3 and isn't eligible anymore!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Thanks for all the input, Jane, moneca, and everyone. I will try to get everything together to start the diet, but am still sort of stressing about how much work it will be and how expensive it will be.
Jane, I only recently heard that PCOS may be caused by food allergies (which in turn cause overall inflammation which leads to insulin resistance, among other things), from a link provided by an MDC mama. Unfortunately, the theory is part of a sales pitch for very expensive allergy testing. I figure why spend the $1500 on the testing if I can just wipe out the allergies with SCD, kwim?
SCD is supposed to kind of cure, or at least minimize, food allergies, right?


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

OK, I have a question. My dd (7months) has always had very foul poos, and always kind of orangy. Not like the nice breastmild poos babies are supposed to have. At first, I tried eliminalting, well, it seems almost everything from my diet. Nothing affected it at all. Nothing. So, now I'm on probiotics, which thickened up her stools a little, but still very foul and orangy. Now I started her on mashed bananas (not store bought jars) with a little breastmilk and her probiotics. That afternoon, she had a poo with some of the banana (the stringy threads, not the big ones you can pull off, but the much smaller "connective" types that run through all bananas) in it. I made sure that that was what it was by checking under the microscope. (Also not parasites that I could find....)
Anyway-Do you all think that I should hold off on bananas or other "solid" foods, or just keep going with the bananas? Should she be digesting everything? or is this normal?
So frustrated!







:


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
This book is about PDD (Pervasive Developmental Disorder): What is it, how to look for the signs, interventions, etc. Since the spectrum of ADD, ADDH to autism is so wide, it is not only difficult to diagnose, but uncharted.

Thank you, Greencat. I'll have to look into that!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
I really should look into it more before he turns 3 and isn't eligible anymore!

Oops!







My dd is 3, so I guess she's not eligible for early intervention anymore?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
Anyway-Do you all think that I should hold off on bananas or other "solid" foods, or just keep going with the bananas? Should she be digesting everything? or is this normal?
So frustrated!







:

This is just some thoughts I have, as I still don't have the book and only know from what I have read from the websites. Moneca, Jane, and anyone else with the knowledge, please correct me if I err:
How long has your dd been on the banana? I don't see why you can't continue to give her the banana for awhile longer, as long as it is very ripe (brown spots on the peel).
Which probiotics are you giving her? I know some probiotics are "illegal" on the SCD.
Also, if you are still breastfeeding dd, you will need to be on the SCD diet, too. The way I understand it, she can still get what the illegal foods you are having through the breastmilk and that will delay the healing in her gut.


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## violafemme (Oct 18, 2004)

Does anyone have any thoughts on seaweed (nori) in a toddler's diet? My dd has taken a shine to the stuff and it's not in any of my food books.

We aren't on the SCD per say but we did go about healing her excema through diet. Her triggers were nuts (including almonds), egg whites, dairy and gluten. She also refuses to eat meat so our diet is limited enough.

She hasn't had any reaction to the seaweed that I can tell and her poos have been even better then usually while she's been eating it so I'm inclined to let her snack away


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## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

viola, different seaweeds have different beneifts, but almost all are a great source of vitamins and or minerals!
I used to sneak some arame or dulse into anything I could to boost iron levels for the girls when they were littler.

I would have branched out further, but couldn't find all the variaties here.
We still use those two seaweeds in baking and soups.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Thanks for all the input, Jane, moneca, and everyone. I will try to get everything together to start the diet, but am still sort of stressing about how much work it will be and how expensive it will be.
Jane, I only recently heard that PCOS may be caused by food allergies (which in turn cause overall inflammation which leads to insulin resistance, among other things), from a link provided by an MDC mama. Unfortunately, the theory is part of a sales pitch for very expensive allergy testing. I figure why spend the $1500 on the testing if I can just wipe out the allergies with SCD, kwim?
SCD is supposed to kind of cure, or at least minimize, food allergies, right?

Yes re: SCD & food allergies, and actually it is the original cure for celiac, one of the most serious food allergies, if it's followed for at least a year.

Re: inflammation and allergies
You gotta read Karen DeFelice's book www.enzymestuff.com
I just finished and am blown away at the possibilities.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

pookietooth and loon13: If you are concerned about any DD, ID, ADD/H, LD, regardless to the age of the child, medical expense, therapist availability, there are few things (and the most important) you can do now. In a nut shell:

Baby massage: I did a short but the same gentle routine each time I changed the diaper. Baby Gym: Any slow movement, using gravity, big ball, or bath towel to wrap around the chest while they stood, and a lot of floor time. Try to do a lot of right/left coordination motion.
Incorporate a lot of classic music. Play it often in the back ground. Or, if the child is old enough, join music class or have a music play day at home. We found some good musical instruments (that sounds like a real, adult instruments) on web and music stores (where they sell and rent.) Making the instruments out of toilette paper core, paper towel core, cans, beans, rubber bands-kinda instruments are even better, yet.
Do a lot of craft time, practicing to use fine motor coordination.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

New September thread started...move on over







.

Peace,


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## sassykat (Sep 7, 2005)

I have been reading posts for about an hour, and I apologize if this question has been asked and answered, but I would like to start the Maker's Diet--I have already received the supplements--I have been trying to wean my 11 month old before starting. He doesn't want to wean (I really don't want to, either!) and tonight I looked through the diet book to see if there was any advice against or for nursing while dieting, etc. and could not find ANYTHING. Is anyone taking these supplements and still breastfeeding? My main reason for starting the Maker's Diet is that I am having extreme hair loss, and I feel it has to be something internal--my *lack of* healthy diet, etc. I appreciate any advice.
Thanks,
sassykat


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Hi, SassyCat: I don’t know anything about the Maker’s diet, but hope other moms can tell you what they know. If you are concerned about the extreme hair loss, have you tried taking 2 table spoon of flaxseed oil (cold press is better) or other omega fatty 3 oil, like cod liver oil (there are peach and lemon flavored) every day? They are not the yummiest thing, but not bad, if you eat fruit after the oil to cleanse your taste buds. Another thing is, eat more nuts that are high in E, like almonds (almond butter is very good.) And, switch your shampoo to Nioxin. It is available at some salon. I found their cleanser, conditioner and booster (used together) was helpful.


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## sassykat (Sep 7, 2005)

Thank you, greencat--I have cod liver oil (it is one of the supplements with the MD), but haven't started taking it yet--I was waiting to start everything together, but I think I'll go ahead and start that today. Thank you for the advice--I am going to try everything you mentioned. With my second baby, my hair started falling out when he was three months old, then stopped after about three months...with this baby, it started falling out around three months, and has not stopped! He's eleven months now. I have a distinctive (to me, at least) bald spot right in the front-middle of my hairline (about the size of a dime), and my hair is very thin now in the front. What is scaring me, is that there is no new hair growth in that small bald spot--if hair was growing in, I wouldn't worry about it...Thanks again for your help!


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## sassykat (Sep 7, 2005)

Oh, one question--is Nioxin okay to use while breastfeeding?
Thanks!
kat


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Quote:

...with this baby, it started falling out around three months, and has not stopped! He's eleven months now. I have a distinctive (to me, at least) bald spot right in the front-middle of my hairline (about the size of a dime), and my hair is very thin now in the front.
Sassycat-have you had your thyroid checked? Hairloss can be a symptom of a malfunctioning thyroid.
Pregnancy play total havock with my thyroid. It takes it longer and longer to get "back to normal" after each pregnancy. Maybe it affects you the same?..
I have major hairloss around 3-4 months postpartem plus a plethora of other syptoms too.
Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Kat,
Please pose your question about nioxin on the September healing the gut tribe to get many more responses







.

Peace,


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## sassykat (Sep 7, 2005)

Hi, zanelee,
Thank you for your response--I have been reading the various threads and am seeing thyroid pretty often--I have an appointment with my dermatologist for skin problems, and I think he can do a thyroid test. I am willing to do anything to figure out why this is happening--I even read about a scalp test the dermatologist can perform--they actually make an incision and can determine why hair loss is occuring. Thanks so much!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca*
New September thread started...move on over







.

Peace,

Where is it?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Here we are!








http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=336581


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## nonniecita (Jul 23, 2005)

Please forgive me if this has been discussed in this thread already, I promise to read when I have time later this week (I don't have time to read it tonight and need a quick answer)...There are so many different brands of probiotics that I just don't know which ones to choose for myself, dh and 9 month old dd. I plan on making yogurt for dh but for some reason, can't stand to eat homemade yogurt although I can eat purchased like stoneyfield yogurt. So, what brands are recommended? Also, can yogurt be made from substances other than animal milk like soy or coconut milk?
Thanks for any suggestions!!!
Michelle


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

I'd ask the "Healing the Gut Tribe" people--look at their current thread.


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## mimismama (Jun 11, 2006)

Oh dear, not sure if I replied to the wrong thread. Don't have a clue how to do this internet thing. But I really would love to join a conversation about healing the gut, as that is what I am currently focused on with my 6-year-old daughter. We are on the Body Ecology Diet currently, but I am interested in what I have heard about the SCD. Anybody out there still?


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimismama*
Oh dear, not sure if I replied to the wrong thread. Don't have a clue how to do this internet thing. But I really would love to join a conversation about healing the gut, as that is what I am currently focused on with my 6-year-old daughter. We are on the Body Ecology Diet currently, but I am interested in what I have heard about the SCD. Anybody out there still?

Here is a link to the current June thread on this topic.







http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=461634


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