# Help me set boundaries...neighbor kids



## Ravenlunatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Okay, I am so totally ill equipped for boundary setting on a regular day with my only dd, she is 6, but all of a sudden I have kids right next door who have become very friendly and are a dominant presence in my day.

We have a nice place, the backyard inparticular is a haven...playhouse, swings, large veggie garden, pool, bikes, skooters and a slab to ride on. We are fortunate.

The kids next door have a half acre of dirt, one rusty swing that thankfully still works, no male presence, a mom who is young and I have no idea if she works or what. She seems to be there when the kids are, but I rarely see her unless she is running outside to yell at them (and I think there are six kids, maybe 5). The kids are pretty rough and they treat each other rotten and yell and scream. They are obviously undisciplined and unsupervised a lot (the mom just lets them do whatever they want unless one of them is screaming for life or death she doesn't necessarily respond to them.)

Okay so my little girl is in kinder with the little boy and they are being friendly over the fench (there is also a 7 yr old girl) and all of a sudden they SEE our yard and are like "can we come over?" and "is that a play house? "can we go swimming?" and I'm like, aaaaaaaaaaa?

I don't really even know how to begin setting boundaries and letting them know what they can and cannot do? How do I get them off the fence? I just sent them home tonite and they listened, but I suspect that won't last long.

PLease help.


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## tjjazzy (Jan 18, 2007)

if i were you, i think i'd be very very clear and very very consistent with them. and make sure dd knows the rules regarding their visits too. if they slip up at all, send them home. that way, they know you're serious and they'll toe the line next visit. and good luck!!


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

Just tell them what you want to happen. You're the adult, it's your house, you're the boss.

We have a pool, and I told the neighbors long ago that they could only swim if they had an adult present w/ them, and *I'd* invite them over when it was a good time for us. Then eventually I did, and so far it's been twice, and once was a party. I was up front--I have young kids and I need to watch them, we'll have swim playdates eventually but that's a looong time away.

As far as our play equipment, sometimes I let them back here and sometimes I don't, and there are a couple of kids I insist just play out front b/c I don't trust them not to get hurt and I don't want to have to worry. I'm always nice and polite, but firm in my expectations--no, you can't play in our backyard but we can come up front, or no, we can't play today, maybe tomorrow. I don't give reasons, just facts--yes or no, this or that option. I've never had any problems w/ that approach. However, it took me awhile to do that, and until I did, one neighbor asked all.the.time. Finally I got specific and now she never asks.

RE: the fence, that's a tough one, I'm not sure how I'd handle that, but it sounds like you did a good job.

Good luck! My husband has a tough time w/ random kid boundaries too. Luckily I've learned to embrace my inner bad cop, lol. Seriously, though, do it--setting boundaries w/ the neighbor kids up front makes things a LOT easier.


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## Ravenlunatic (Jan 7, 2010)

thanks so far for the replies. I think part of my issue is that I was thinking I needed to give a reason... but once you take that out of the equation it seems to be easier.

I told my dd we would take it day by day, but that we would have to talk to their mom before any playtimes were set and that she needs my permission to go in their yard, and that they need permission before coming into our yard.

They just seem sooooo needy. I guess I am afraid of worse case scenario in that they will want to come over every day, all the time and that we'll find them in the yard waiting for us to get home. It is kind of overwhelming... I just never saw kids left on there own so much...and their sooooo mean to each other. I especially feel for the little 7 year old girl, who seems so sweeet.

would still love to hear more...


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## Learning_Mum (Jan 5, 2007)

Id set up 'in our house' rules. So, in our house we talk kindly to one another. In our house we listen when people say no. In our house we don't come over without asking first. If they don't listen, then they go home. It is your house and you have ultimate control over it.


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## bodhitree (May 12, 2008)

I agree that you can and should just decide what is okay with you and what isn't, and then be firm and extremely clear about where those boundaries are. I used to feel like I had to be "polite" to our neighbor kids, but that didn't work out very well because they (of course!) don't take hints the way that adults do. Once I started just saying no when I meant no, without feeling the need to justify it in any way, things got better, and now we enjoy the neighbor kids quite a bit. There are a couple of the older ones that we're actually pretty close to, and they love my DD and come over to play with her almost every day, giving me some much-needed help. But yeah, they all drove me nuts until I started being very blunt about what I would allow and what I wouldn't.


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## Ravenlunatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Okay so here is a complication. MY dd is lieing. I am taking all advice to be blunt and firm and set clear boundaries. It has only been a day and a half. My dd is quite pleased that she now has several friends over the fence. She just came running in to get a bandaid with a small scratch on her knee (from the fence). I am reacting very firmly to her friends...no you may not come over, we speak kindly in our family so that kind of talk is not okay (when he called his sister fat)... and so when I asked my dd if she was having fun she says "don't go outside" I say are the other children in our yard "no" are they sitting on the potters shed (at the top of the fence they can sit up there to be comfortable) she says "no", but my curiouslity got the better of me and I went to see. Well they were on the shed (which is okay with me), but my dd is just begining to say these lies and quite frankly I don't know what to do about that either. We generally choose natural consequences and not any kind of harsh descipline...

I am such a fish out of water here... it's a wonder I've survived this long.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

I have an only DD who is 5.75 and honestly, she wants friends. Constantly. There are a few families that have children in our neighborhood that I would prefer DD not play with. The only way to make that happen, realistically, is to have a constant stream of friends coming in here or DD going out to playdates that I am okay with. She needs friends and she needs a lot of social stimulation and my DD would probably start lieing, too, if I didn't work hard at meeting those needs. I wish it wasn't this way.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

I had this problem initially with my ds. one little girl in particular would just open the door and walk in







. I was beyond annoyed....people, TRAIN your chidren!!!!! But I digress...

I just don't let any kids in my house (although that may change as its gets colder). I really don't care if they are in my yard. If they do something extraordinarily stupid or dangerous I will yell out the window for them to stop it or go home and that's all it takes. I don't see the problem with the kids playing in the yard??? Let them come over and play, it doesn't have to be micromanaged and they will all get their footing with each other socially. If there are any problems, just tell the offending child "we don't o xyz over here" and send him/her home.

I have no problems kicking kids out of my house/yard and I have no problems with the neighbors doing it to mine. Let them play over there and when you get sick of them for the day, say "we need some family time/quiet time, you guys need to go home now."

Also every time the kids are in my yard, that does not mean ds isout there. Sometmes they come ask him to come out but he is cleaning his room or helping me do something and the answer is no. They often stay in the yard and play anyway







when ds is done he can go out with them or not, as he pleases.

eta: ds is also very social and I have no doubt that trying to isolate him or micromanage his friendships would lead to a lot of problems including lying. I just make it clear that what other people do (lying, tattling, fighting, being mean, cussing etc) is NOT what we do, and if he acts like them, he won't get to play with them.


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## LROM (Sep 10, 2008)

I find I'm usually on the extreme end of the "emotional multi-tasking" in many conversations on this board, but I'd like to weigh in anyway...









First off, i agree with everyone who's said "It's your yard, you definitely make the rules, be clear and CONSISTENT with them about what those rules are". Plus you have an additional reason to insist they only come over when they have your permission AND there's an adult present: you have a pool. There are way too many bad things that can happen with unsupervised kids and a pool, and you don't want to have to deal with that. So tell them, and tell their mom, that they are only allowed over when both you and she say it's ok, AND when an adult is home at your house to both give permission and supervise. And tell the mom and kids that there will probably be many times when you'll be home, but unable to be out supervising, so it won't be ok. Just put that out there to start with.

Here's where I may be a lone voice... given your concern about how they treat each other, I'd also use them playing in your yard (or them *not* being allowed to play in your yard) as an opp to show them a different way of thinking/treating each other. If I was in your situation, I'd probably let them come over and play one day, but set up as a ground rule right from the start that everyone has to be nice to each other, and that you'll let them know if you thin kthey're not and if they don't fix it/straighten up, you'll send them home. Then whatever it is you hear them say/do to each other that seems mean, say "Ok, that is mean. What is a nice way to say that?" and coach them a little. That's what I'd do.

It's not your responsiblity to teach them manners or how to be nice, but since you sound concern and I appreciate that concern (I'd feel the same way in your shoes), I wanted to point out that you're in a position - should you choose to try it - to help them see that maybe they can treat each other nicer and that nice things come along with that.

But no matter what, make sure your dd understands she can't approve them coming over, nor as you already said can she go to them without your permission. And if she's 6, she's old enough for you to explain some of the reasons why. And let her know if anyone is ever mean to her or scares her, you want to know about it.

Last thing... if it really becomes a problem that the kids don't respect your rules, you'll need to secure your yard. Higher fence, locking gates, whatever it takes. You don't want to be in a situation where they can get in without you knowing and one of them gets hurt, or worse your dd is out there thinking she's alone and she gets hurt.

Good luck!

ETA I didn't catch the part about lying until just now. Not sure what you mean when you say you usually choose "natural consequences", but your dd is old enough to understand that lying is unacceptable and if she does it again, what the consequences will be. Not sure what you consider harsh, but I can tell you straight out that if you're not comfy saying "If you lie again, then you won't be allowed to _______ for this _______ amount of time" or "you'll have to ___________ for this _________ amount of time", I don't know how you can hope she'll respect your rules? But maybe I'm missing something about how "natural consequences" work?

In the meantime, if she were my dd I'd explain to her very clearly why it's not ok for those kids to be in your yard without your a) permission and b) supvervision. Again, the pool, plus the play equipment. Until you've watched those kids enough to believe they're responsible and won't play rough or stupid or careless, you really shouldn't have them over around equip/pool where they can get hurt and you wouldn't know until it's too late.

Also, ask your dd why she lied, and process that with her. You'd be amazed how quickly/deeply other kids can influence our little ones... often unfortunately in ways we don't want. Don't let the lying go without processing her thinking so she can learn from it. That's my advice, any
way.....


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
I don't see the problem with the kids playing in the yard??? Let them come over and play, it doesn't have to be micromanaged and they will all get their footing with each other socially. If there are any problems, just tell the offending child "we don't o xyz over here" and send him/her home.

Also every time the kids are in my yard, that does not mean ds isout there. Sometmes they come ask him to come out but he is cleaning his room or helping me do something and the answer is no. They often stay in the yard and play anyway when ds is done he can go out with them or not, as he pleases.

I know in some areas of the country there are no fences between backyards -- maybe you live in an area like that? In my area, backyards are a fenced, gated outdoor extension of the home, and they're private. It would be highly against the local culture for someone to just walk into another person's backyard and play without the person who lives there inviting them (or agreeing when asked) and being outside with them.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I know in some areas of the country there are no fences between backyards -- maybe you live in an area like that? In my area, backyards are a fenced, gated outdoor extension of the home, and they're private. It would be highly against the local culture for someone to just walk into another person's backyard and play without the person who lives there inviting them (or agreeing when asked) and being outside with them.

ahh ok. It's sort of hard to understand (i'm not being snarky I promise) but I guess I can see how that would be the case in certain neighborhoods. I know in some of the more upper class neighborhoods here it is like that, but I don't think those kids play outside at all...they are usually with a nanny or something 24/7.

But yikes! that would drive me nuts, if playing with the neighbors had to be like a formal playdate every time. I don't want that much involvement in my kids' social lives, lol. I kinda like the "kick them outside and see you at dinnertime" thing that we have over here. They play, all the parents keep an eye out (and we all discipline to a certain extent, not spanking them or anything, but just correcting any minor stuff) and if you want your kid, just stick your head out the door and holler.









totally different culture. so I guess my post wasn't very helpful to you.









I'm just curious, where do you live?


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
ahh ok. It's sort of hard to understand (i'm not being snarky I promise) but I guess I can see how that would be the case in certain neighborhoods. I know in some of the more upper class neighborhoods here it is like that, but I don't think those kids play outside at all...they are usually with a nanny or something 24/7.

But yikes! that would drive me nuts, if playing with the neighbors had to be like a formal playdate every time. I don't want that much involvement in my kids' social lives, lol. I kinda like the "kick them outside and see you at dinnertime" thing that we have over here. They play, all the parents keep an eye out (and we all discipline to a certain extent, not spanking them or anything, but just correcting any minor stuff) and if you want your kid, just stick your head out the door and holler.









totally different culture. so I guess my post wasn't very helpful to you.









I'm just curious, where do you live?

I live in Southern CA, and I don't know anyone with a nanny or anyone whose kids never play outside.







Kids do play outside spontaneously, but mostly in frontyards and around the neighborhood block. They do migrate into backyards during play, but neighbor kids don't just walk into backyards and start playing without making contact with the people who live there -- they join us in play while we're out front, or knock on the door and ask to play (in which case they might end up in the front, the back, or inside the house).


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

First, I'd decide what your boundaries are. For example, the pool is a big one. My boundary would be: "Until I your parents send you over with a trained lifeguard to show me that he thinks you're capable of independently swimming, every one, if you so much as touch the edge of the water, you're gone for a month. If you come back and it happens again, you will never see this house again, not even for trick-or-treating. Get it? Don't touch the pool. You will be sorry."

The last part sounds harsh but frankly... I think they'd get it, and it would be true.

Other than that, I'd be okay with lots of playing but 1. You can come over from x o'clock and when I say it's time to go, you go right away or you don't play the next day. 2. Knock before you enter or you leave and don't come back until the next day or when I want. 3. Nobody touches anyone else in a mean way, and I SAY WHAT'S MEAN. If I see it happening, you don't come back. Ever. Period. No buts, and not even if someone else did it to you first. No hits, no kicks, no pokes, no pushes, no head butts, tummy butts, chest butts, butt butts, half-nelsons, no unwanted hugs, nothing. You touch mean, you gone forever.

I think that if you think they are tough kids you will just need to be very, very clear and have firm limits. Speak to them in front of their mom. If your DP is male, his presence will probably be impressive.

Being a firm but gentle force for good in their lives would be really generous of you.

Of course, if you feel that would be difficult, you could always just say, "I'm sorry, this is our yard." The end.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
But yikes! that would drive me nuts, if playing with the neighbors had to be like a formal playdate every time.

Me too!

I understand, though, that the pool is a biggie. OP, is there any way to make your yard more safe by, say, having a fence right around the pool?

This way neighborhood kids could come play and you wouldn't have to worry about anyone drowning.

I really feel for your dd! My own dd was about this age when she started feeling a strong need for more and more diverse social contacts.

If I were you, I'd see if there's some way to make it safe and just let 'em play. I understand that this may not be the most convenient thing. But maybe you could ask dd which is more important to her -- having the pool readily accessible, or being able to have her neighborhood friends come play with her every day?

Of course, I also agree with the others who say send 'em home if they engage in behaviors that are unacceptable to you. I'd probably give a warning the first time, but then if they're disregarding what you've said, send 'em home.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
I really don't care if they are in my yard. If they do something extraordinarily stupid or dangerous I will yell out the window for them to stop it or go home and that's all it takes. I don't see the problem with the kids playing in the yard???

You need to read the OP again. They have a *SWIMMING POOL*. Totally different set of circumstances.

OP - if you have a chance to talk to the parents, I think starting there is a good place to set boundaries. If it comes from the parents, that's the best.

I would ABSOLUTELY only have them over at a pre-determined time when proper supervision can be provided. I would not go for spontaneous play around a pool. If your dd lies about it, then I would not allow them over at all for a period of time.

Good luck with this situation. It's difficult.


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