# Not comfortable with Halloween incident.



## SJane01 (Feb 24, 2006)

My 14yo has had a "female friend" (swears she's not a girlfriend) for almost a year now, she is 12. She has an older sister who is 16.

They convinced him to dress up in the 12yo girls clothing for Halloween, complete with make up, 24 hour hair coloring, lip stick, etc. all of this was OK until I saw the outfit he was wearing.

Just a bit of background here, my 14yo ds is more like a 12 year old. he's just started puberty (literally within the past 2 months) and has no body hair. So there was no shaving, etc. He did not have any body hair to make this not work. but.. When i saw him after he came back from their house he was wearing a mini skirt, and a blouse. He was wearing pantyhose, panties and a bra, and his blonde hair was strawberry brunette.

I did not recognize him. The girls mother dropped off his clothing while they was out trick or treating, and i noticed that his briefs were in the clothing and I asked about it, and she said they thought that the briefs would be visable or look badly with the mini skirt, so they had him wear panties. I asked where he changed and she said that she let him change in front of the two girls. I'm not comfortable with my son being naked in front of 2 other girls of his peer age.

I brought it up to him afterwards and he got very defensive. He swore that nothing bad or wrong happened at all. That he was naked for no more than 2 minutes in front of them. And that they never touched his body in that area at all. He said that he has to shower in school in front of other boys, why does it matter if he got naked in a non-sexual way in front of 2 girls.

I could not argue with him with that point, but told him that I was not comfortable with it and he does not have *MY* permission to do it again.

I'm very liberal. But am I out of line here? If the girls parents supervised and was there, I'd have felt a thousand times better, but I'm not sure if Dan would have done it in that situation.

WWYD?


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Opposite sex kids do not change in front of each other. I would be firm with him and mention to the other mother that this was poor judgment on her part. I might also have him spend a bit less time with this girl until your son realizes where the boundaries are. He could have changed in another room, a restroom, a closet......etc, etc.


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## SJane01 (Feb 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
Opposite sex kids do not change in front of each other. I would be firm with him and mention to the other mother that this was poor judgment on her part. I might also have him spend a bit less time with this girl until your son realizes where the boundaries are. He could have changed in another room, a restroom, a closet......etc, etc.

Thanks for making me feel like I'm the only one here who feels that it just was a bad idea. I dont think that him spending less time with her is a good idea however, he has very few friends as it is. I will reinforce that he doesnt change infront of girls in the future until he's older.


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## BedHead (Mar 8, 2007)

I bet that other mother wouldn't have let her daughter change in front of him - I would ask her that. I think she crossed the line and it wasn't her call to make whether he changed in front of a girl, whether he wanted to or not.

And I don't think you're the only one who thinks it was a bad idea. I think it was a bad idea too.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

I myself would have no problem with it as long as my kid was comfortable. It's HIS body, not mine, so he gets to make the calls about what he is comfortable with. Of course, I only have daughters, maybe I would feel differently if I had a son. I would not have a problem with my DDs changing in front of peer age friends of either sex as long as they were comfortable with it.


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## morning glory (Dec 8, 2005)

I sent you a big long PM but thought I'd put a shorter version in here...

I say as long as no one was hurt then no need to make a big issue of it. He wasn't uncomfortable and neither were the girls. I would use it as a discussion point to talk about why you prefer he not change in front of members of the opposite sex.

I think its best to deal with it very calmly and not involve the girls mom...embarassing him by bringing in other people is not the route I would take. Even if you want to lay down the law and say "absolutely no getting naked in front of members of the opposite sex" I don't see the need for the other mom to be involved...at 14 your son can follow a rule like that on his own.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I completely agree with morning glory.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I myself would have no problem with it as long as my kid was comfortable. It's HIS body, not mine, so he gets to make the calls about what he is comfortable with.

Ditto that. Being a mom of all boys I would be more worried about the girl's parents having an issue but since clearly they didn't then I would just let it go.


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## SJane01 (Feb 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HelloKitty* 
Ditto that. Being a mom of all boys I would be more worried about the girl's parents having an issue but since clearly they didn't then I would just let it go.

In the other parents defense, the mother required both girls to be there and would not let just my DS and the younger girl (his friend)


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## scatterbrainedmom (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SJane01* 
In the other parents defense, the mother required both girls to be there and would not let just my DS and the younger girl (his friend)


that strikes me as strange! she was obviously uncomfortable with it....why not ask one daughter to leave the room instead of another daughter to stay with the other?

as a mom of all boys here too.


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## lindsaye3 (May 15, 2007)

nak

Not ok with me. Reverse the sexes. It definitely would not be ok for 14 year old girl to dress in front of 16 and 12 year old boys. So totally not ok. I'd talk to my son and talk to the girls' mother again and tell her why it isn't ok.

Choli - Seriously, you would be ok with your 14 year old daughter dressing and undressing in front of a 16 year old boy?







:


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## SJane01 (Feb 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scatterbrainedmom* 
that strikes me as strange! she was obviously uncomfortable with it....why not ask one daughter to leave the room instead of another daughter to stay with the other?

as a mom of all boys here too.

i'm only assuming, that with 2, their would be less chance of things happening that was inappropriate beyond my son naked.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindsaye3* 
nak

Not ok with me. Reverse the sexes. It definitely would not be ok for 14 year old girl to dress in front of 16 and 12 year old boys. So totally not ok. I'd talk to my son and talk to the girls' mother again and tell her why it isn't ok.

Choli - Seriously, you would be ok with your 14 year old daughter dressing and undressing in front of a 16 year old boy?








:

Yes, if she was comfortable with it. We are not a family that equates nudity with sex, especially in a situation such as changing clothes. We don't equate skin with sin.

What exactly is it that you would have a problem with? Really, do you have such a low opinion of 16 yr old boys that you think she would be immediately attacked or something? My DD has male friends, and any she would be comfortable changing with are ones that she knows and trusts. Not all teenage boys are animals.


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## SJane01 (Feb 24, 2006)

I've been thinking about this a lot today and thinking about everyone else's comments on it.

I think my biggest concern is that it was used as a "show and tell" type of event. That it wasn't necessary.

I also feel that I'm protective over DS because he has only just hit puberty, and he does get picked on for being not very physically mature. I think it could have ended up with the girls picking on him, and DS then being devastated because he trusted them, and they picked on him for whatever reason, no pubic hair, small size, whatever reason.

I also think if it would have been a mutual thing, such as a co-ed changing room as we ourselves were in when we visited Europe over the summer, that I would have thought a lot differently about this incident. Insted it was my DS, with two girls checking him out - and he was alone with the exposure.


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## Ornery (May 21, 2007)

I wouldn't have been comfortable with it. I probably wouldn't make too big of a deal out of it, but I would definitely talk to my son about it. I think that, at that age, it is inappropriate for girls/boys to be naked around each other. Just my opinion of course!


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## lindsaye3 (May 15, 2007)

Choli - As the mother of an 18 year old boy, I obviously do not think of them as animals, nor do I think they can't control themselves and will attack. That was insulting and uncalled for. What I do *know* is that boys at that age are sexualized. They have hormones. They have desires and wants, and to see a desire and want standing right in front of them is uncomfortable for everyone. This is 100% different from a child seeing his mother naked. I agree that skin doesn't equal sin, but it equals a turn on to many teen age boys. Otherwise, Playboy would have gone out of business a long, long time ago. Just because you and your daughter are comfortable with her getting totally naked and dressed in front of 16 year old boys, does not mean the boys are comfortable with it (and if his mother is me, she obviously is not comfortable with it).

I think we should just agree to disagree on this. You would never change my mind that it is ok for a 14 year old girl to get naked (no panties even) in front of a 16 year old boy, and I highly doubt I will change your mind that it isn't ok.


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## SJane01 (Feb 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindsaye3* 
I think we should just agree to disagree on this. You would never change my mind that it is ok for a 14 year old girl to get naked (no panties even) in front of a 16 year old boy, and I highly doubt I will change your mind that it isn't ok.

While I agree with you about 90% on this, I view the 16yo in this as a responsible teenager, who if babysitting my son when he was 11 or 12, I would not have thought twice if she saw him naked while he was in the bath.

Even though DS is 14, he looks, acts, and is about as physically mature as a 11-12 year old. And I hope that the 16 year old acted the part that I'm thinking that she was asked to do.

if my DS at 16/17 was babysitting a 9/10 year old girl and he, in an appropriate way, saw her undressed I dont think I would have a problem with it.


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## Emzachsmama (Apr 30, 2004)

I would NOT be ok with that. I don't feel it is appropriate at all.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindsaye3* 
Choli - As the mother of an 18 year old boy, I obviously do not think of them as animals, nor do I think they can't control themselves and will attack. That was insulting and uncalled for. What I do *know* is that boys at that age are sexualized. They have hormones. They have desires and wants, and to see a desire and want standing right in front of them is uncomfortable for everyone. This is 100% different from a child seeing his mother naked. I agree that skin doesn't equal sin, but it equals a turn on to many teen age boys. Otherwise, Playboy would have gone out of business a long, long time ago. Just because you and your daughter are comfortable with her getting totally naked and dressed in front of 16 year old boys, does not mean the boys are comfortable with it (and if his mother is me, she obviously is not comfortable with it).

I think we should just agree to disagree on this. You would never change my mind that it is ok for a 14 year old girl to get naked (no panties even) in front of a 16 year old boy, and I highly doubt I will change your mind that it isn't ok.

And yet, in other countries, apparently people are comfortable with co-ed changing rooms. Why do you think that is?

I don't see it as my business to try to tell my DD what her own comfort level with her own body should be. If I WAS uncomfortable with it, it would still not be my place to tell her what her comfort level should be.


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## scatterbrainedmom (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SJane01* 
i'm only assuming, that with 2, their would be less chance of things happening that was inappropriate beyond my son naked.

i totally agree, but if the mom thought that was even a remote possibility why would she let it happen?

i am just really speechless (typless lol) over that part of it.

i mean, i think if the mom didn't require there to be 2 children present in front of a naked opposite sex child...i don't even know where i am going with that.

i think it was bad judgment on the other moms part. maybe she allows that, maybe not. either way it was not her choice to allow a child that is not hers to do that.

(sorry so rambly, i am trying to type something coherent but its not really working)


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## lindsaye3 (May 15, 2007)

We aren't talking about Europe. We are talking about the U.S. When you are use to seeing nudity, it isn't the same. Seeing grandma changing into her bathing suit is not the same as seeing 14 year old friend in the nude. One is a turn on and one is grandma getting into her bathing suit. It is totally different situation in a changing room with everyone from babies to grandparents around. It is your place to tell your children your views, she doesn't have to listen, she doesn't have to do it, but you are suppose to guide your children, share your values and morals, as you have. And your morals and values think that it is ok for her to get undressed in front of her male friends. The OP asked what we thought, I gave my opinion based on my values (as a pretty liberal American) - that it is not ok once puberty starts to get undressed in front of the other sex when they are peers.

SJane1 - Totally different scenario with someone baby-sitting. I am sure the 16 year old did behave as you would want. I doubt she thought about it one second after the fact.

A lot of parents would be plenty mad if this situation was reversed. A 16 year old boy brought in to watch the 14 year old girl dress so the 12 year old boy isn't alone with her? That would be considered perverted. The mother should have just suggested to your son that he change in the bathroom.


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## Benji'sMom (Sep 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindsaye3* 
A lot of parents would be plenty mad if this situation was reversed. A 16 year old boy brought in to watch the 14 year old girl dress so the 12 year old boy isn't alone with her? That would be considered perverted. The mother should have just suggested to your son that he change in the bathroom.

I agree with you and scatterbrainedmom. The mom felt something about it wasn't right, but the way she handled it was just totally off the wall. Getting a 16 year old to chaperon them? WTF? The younger girl didn't need a chaperon, she needed to leave the room. If it had been 2 boys watching a girl completely undress you would all be freaked out about it, come on you know it's true, look way down deep in your mama bear hearts!







:


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindsaye3* 
We aren't talking about Europe. We are talking about the U.S. When you are use to seeing nudity, it isn't the same. Seeing grandma changing into her bathing suit is not the same as seeing 14 year old friend in the nude. One is a turn on and one is grandma getting into her bathing suit. It is totally different situation in a changing room with everyone from babies to grandparents around. It is your place to tell your children your views, she doesn't have to listen, she doesn't have to do it, but you are suppose to guide your children, share your values and morals, as you have. And your morals and values think that it is ok for her to get undressed in front of her male friends. The OP asked what we thought, I gave my opinion based on my values (as a pretty liberal American) - that it is not ok once puberty starts to get undressed in front of the other sex when they are peers.

SJane1 - Totally different scenario with someone baby-sitting. I am sure the 16 year old did behave as you would want. I doubt she thought about it one second after the fact.

A lot of parents would be plenty mad if this situation was reversed. A 16 year old boy brought in to watch the 14 year old girl dress so the 12 year old boy isn't alone with her? That would be considered perverted. The mother should have just suggested to your son that he change in the bathroom.

The internet is not the USA, and the OP did not specify that she wanted USA opinions.

I do notice, however, that the current social climate in the USA tends to lead people to sexualize situations that simply are not sexual.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Is your son homosexual? The reason I ask is that if he has girls that are friends and doesn't mind changing in front of them then I wouldn't worry. I don't think they would be getting curious anyway if they know his orientation. Sometimes other kids know something that one kids parents don't know about them. Just a thought.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Just to clarify...in my last post I was in no way saying your child is a homosexual. I was just asking a question. I wanted to clarify that. I know that when I was a teenager at that age I knew things about my best friends that even their parents didn't know and if they knew the things we were all doing together they would have been appalled I'm sure.







I just don't want you to be offended by my questioning.


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## moonbeem (Sep 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I myself would have no problem with it as long as my kid was comfortable. It's HIS body, not mine, so he gets to make the calls about what he is comfortable with. Of course, I only have daughters, maybe I would feel differently if I had a son. I would not have a problem with my DDs changing in front of peer age friends of either sex as long as they were comfortable with it.

ITA


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Benji'sMom* 
The mom felt something about it wasn't right, but the way she handled it was just totally off the wall. Getting a 16 year old to chaperon them? WTF? The younger girl didn't need a chaperon, she needed to leave the room. If it had been 2 boys watching a girl completely undress you would all be freaked out about it, come on you know it's true, look way down deep in your mama bear hearts!







:











I wonder if it started out as a bit of a joke, and then just kept going one step further, and a little further, and then a little further. It seems to me like the kinda thing that if they had started our realizing the whole thing, they might not have done it, and yet, each step was just one tiny step, so there never seemed to be a reason to stop.

I think that parents should talk to their boys about saying no to girls. Just because a girl comes up with an idea, it doesn't mean that it is a good idea. And boys have just as much of a right to say no as girls, even though they don't often get that message in our society.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Wow! Some very strong opinions here. I don't have teens yet, but I was one not very long ago-I would personally be uncomfortable with the fact that he did change in front of the girls, but I wouldn't go overboard on it if HE wasn't uncomfortable. Nudity does not always have to be sexual, and this is true even with teenagers. I changed in front of my guy friends before, and nothing happened-we were just changing clothes, ya know? I DO think that opposite sexes should change separately, but once incident shouldn't be that huge of a deal, and it was probably a completely spontaneous action with the kids. Teenagers tend to act first without thinking of the consequences, and they probably didn't even pause to think that it might be inappropriate for a boy to change in front of them. I'll be they were mostly giggling at the fact that one of their male friends is going to be dressed as a female.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I myself would have no problem with it as long as my kid was comfortable. It's HIS body, not mine, so he gets to make the calls about what he is comfortable with. Of course, I only have daughters, maybe I would feel differently if I had a son. I would not have a problem with my DDs changing in front of peer age friends of either sex as long as they were comfortable with it.

I have a daughter and a son, and I agree with you. They can be naked in front of whomever they want; its not my body to control.

When I was 15, I was doing community theater and often changed clothes (sometimes getting completely naked) in front of women and men of all ages. That was actually when I finally started feeling comfortable about my body again, after being very very modest between the age of 9 and 14. That's a good thing, IMO.


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## Laggie (Nov 2, 2005)

It kind of sounds like he already had the skirt on when they decided he should change into the panties too. In which case, they may have gotten a little flash but probably nothing too serious. He might have turned his back?

In any case, I don't think it's a big deal at all. To me it would only be a big deal if he was uncomfortable, didn't want to do it, and they pressured him, or pulled his pants down or something. It sounds like it was all in good fun.

Mind you, I wouldn't think twice about changing in front of most of my friends, male or female, and neither would they. We're pretty liberal, and there's a nude beach here that all my friends go to so we've seen it all anyway.

I have to wonder how much of your discomfort is related to seeing your son dressed as what sounds like a very cute teenaged girl? Or, maybe, if his defensiveness is more related to that than to the nudity?


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## Organicavocado (Mar 15, 2006)

I wonder... did he strip down totally naked, or did he change from briefs to undies with the skirt ON?


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## SJane01 (Feb 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Organicavocado* 
I wonder... did he strip down totally naked, or did he change from briefs to undies with the skirt ON?

From the details I drug out of him, he stripped down to nothing but his breifs and put the pantyhose and the skirt on, and it did not look right, he said it felt really weird so they got a pair of the 12yo's panties and gave to him to put on. I'm assuming that he did strip down totaly naked infront of them.

I've pretty much decided its a non issue now. He knows I'd prefer him to not do this again, but im not going to barr it. If he's comfortable with his body -- then im not going to stop him.


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## boadhagh (Sep 19, 2007)

It sounds like you've come to some sort of internal resolution about this, so congratulations! But I would like to add one thing: I think it's great that so many people recognize that their children's bodies are their own, but (if I was in this situation) I'd make sure that my son knew that, in general even if not in this particular instance, getting naked in front of a woman or women could be seen as very threatening to that woman or women.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

IMO, the reason we don't change in front of others who aren't related to us is because it makes us uncomfortable. DD1 stopped being comfortable changing in front of me around age 6, so I respected that. I also refrain from walking around the house naked because it makes her uncomfortable (my other 2 aren't as strongly opinionated on this issue.)

If he wasn't uncomfortable changing in front of these particular friends, they weren't uncomfortable with him changing in front of them, and no innapropriate touching went on, then I really can't see what the big deal is.

I would certainly talk to him about what's "proper" and reasons he should be more modest in the future (ie, avoid the chance of making others uncomfy or putting himself at risk of unwanted sexual contact) but I don't think it's such a big deal after the fact.


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:

If he wasn't uncomfortable changing in front of these particular friends, they weren't uncomfortable with him changing in front of them, and no innapropriate touching went on, then I really can't see what the big deal is.
ITA, and I'd take it the one step further in that the parents of the girls weren't uncomfortable either.

As far as being disturbed by it as a "show and tell" scenario, I don't see a problem with that either. imagine, a 12 yr old girl knowing what a real live penis looks like!







I think it was innocent fun and I think the costume is hilarious. but, it takes a lot to offend me, fwiw.


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## SJane01 (Feb 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bri276* 
I think it was innocent fun and I think the costume is hilarious. but, it takes a lot to offend me, fwiw.

I was jealous that he doesn't have to shave his legs / armpits to be a perfect woman 

That said -- i'm not sure I'd let my daughter goto school dressed in such revealing, short clothing.

But when we first saw him we did not recognize him. They did an excellent job with the clothing and make up.


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## Marcee (Jan 23, 2007)

I would not be happy if my 12 year old changed in front of his friends that are female. But that is just me.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

I understand why you feel uncomfortable, and I know I would also feel that way. That said, I'd not make a big issue of the matter at this point. I would talk to your son to further assess if these girls are playing nice or being manipulative with him. That's the focus of my concern over the matter. I'd keep my ears open for anything else suspicous but not get involved at this point.


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## MamaWindmill (Feb 5, 2005)

I would be more concerned that, as you mentioned, this was perhaps a mean-spirited trick at his expense than I would about the nudity issue.


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SJane01* 
I think it could have ended up with the girls picking on him, and DS then being devastated because he trusted them, and they picked on him for whatever reason, no pubic hair, small size, whatever reason.


Did it? If not, logicaly it would have validated his body image? As to weather or not the situation was "wrong" you really have to trust your intuition. The facts of this situation don't flesh it out enough, it could have been totally harmless or totally horrible.

Assuming it was harmless, and a case of kids experimenting with gender roles, it's definetely okay for you to be uncomfortable with this. You could gently expess to your son that, although what he did was not wrong, you don't feel comfortable with that happening again. I don't see how that could be too harmful.

I don't have a teenager, but I know that children always suprise us with what they are curious about, or rather, how they express that curiosity!

You sound like you're being a good Mama about this, instead of shooting fro the hip. Sometimes it can ba hard to suss out weather or not our inhibitions are a good thing we inhereted from our parents/ society or not.

I'm sure it'll all be fine,

Crystal

P.S As for a role reversal here, I would definetely have to fight my own impulses to think that a 16 _BOY_ would be predatory towards a younger girl. It is definetely not necissarily so, although there is a greater sociatal hurdle in seeing boys as the agressors.


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

He should have changed in the bathroom. I'm ok with the outfit, but not undressing in front of the opposite sex at that age.


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

as for the "is he homosexual" thing. Most cross dressers are straight










my fave commedian is a cross dressers and states that transvestites are usually straight: they have an extra woman's wordrobe to choose from that way









Crystal


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sea_joy* 
as for the "is he homosexual" thing. Most cross dressers are straight









my fave commedian is a cross dressers and states that transvestites are usually straight: they have an extra woman's wordrobe to choose from that way









Crystal

I just have to say a "yup" to that. I have a friend who is very straight and in a commited relationship with a woman, yet he dresses up in full drag for fun. Most guys that dress up in drag that I know are straight men who simply enjoy pretending to be a woman.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
And yet, in other countries, apparently people are comfortable with co-ed changing rooms. Why do you think that is?

I don't see it as my business to try to tell my DD what her own comfort level with her own body should be. *If I WAS uncomfortable with it, it would still not be my place to tell her what her comfort level should be.*









:

Sorry, but at 14 if the boy wants to get naked in front of a girl I wont embarrass him by telling him 'no'. I WILL tell him not to do anything without the girls parents knowing what is going on because that is being respectful of the girl and her parents.

In this case it obviously wasn't a sexual game, and even if it WAS show and tell your son was comfortable with it and the girls parents were too. I don't ever plan on telling my kids what they can and can not do with their clothed or naked bodies. I plan on supporting them with what they are comfortable with and helping them and supporting them in things that they are not.

It's not that I would be 'OK' with my kid being naked in front of 2 girls. Probably the opposite. I just don't see it as my place telling my child what they should be comfortable with. Appropriate? Yes. I would DEFINATELY have a talk with the boy and warn him that he shouldn't do this with just anyone and basically only if the other parents knew about it. That being said, not many parents WOULD be ok with this situation so I doubt that this situation would come up very often if he abided by what I asked of him.

And as for roles being reversed? if it was my 14 year old daughter? To be honest it would depend on if the parents knew what was going on and if my daughter did it of her own volitian. I wouldn't penalize her for making a choice I wouldn't make, it is her choice to make. But I would also let her know what happens when you decide to get naked in front of someone of the opposite sex even if you don't have feelings for them, same as I would do for my son.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

What I find wierd is that the other mom was brought into the decision by the kids and she approved. Now if the kids had just taken it upon themselves to do it and the mom didn't know and your ds was fine with it then I'd be ok.

But, as the mom of a teen I'd never allow someone elses opposite sex child get naked in front of my daughter because I don't know what the other parent would feel like. Especially at that age. My dd is 18 now so it's a totally different situation and she and they can do as they like. But 12, 16 and 14 different story.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Synthea™* 
He should have changed in the bathroom. I'm ok with the outfit, but not undressing in front of the opposite sex at that age.


I've skimmed the thread and maybe too quickly. Did I miss *why* he changed in front of the girls when I am sure there must have been a different room to do it in?!!? I don't understand why it was a group effort to get him dressed. I mean mini skirts are not that complicated to slip in to. It's not too big of deal if all kids were comfortable. Just wondering what the big is that he had to change in front of them. It appears to be conscience choice with some forethought...


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
What I find wierd is that the other mom was brought into the decision by the kids and she approved. Now if the kids had just taken it upon themselves to do it and the mom didn't know and your ds was fine with it then I'd be ok.

But, as the mom of a teen I'd never allow someone elses opposite sex child get naked in front of my daughter because I don't know what the other parent would feel like. Especially at that age. My dd is 18 now so it's a totally different situation and she and they can do as they like. But 12, 16 and 14 different story.


I totally agree!


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

It sounds like they just forgot he was a boy for a few. Which is GREAT!!! It means they were just seeing him as a friend/buddy and were playing dress up for Halloween. My daughter and her girlfriends do this, they'll make comments, change their mind once someone puts something on, and try something else etc. Watching the person get dressed is part of the process for deciding what to put on next, what to veto etc. Sounds like innocent fun to me. I would only be concerned in this case if I was the girl's mother. But only because I'd not want to upset the young man's parents.


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## IndyNanny (Sep 20, 2007)

I'd be upset mostly because my 15yo ds is a pretty private person regarding his body. As a mom with visiting kids in the house, I always assume that the other mom is as conservative as I am. I would've had him change in another room, or had the girls leave.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

I guess I would be wierded out by it because it almost seemed like the mom was using your son as a "Look, here's a boy's anatomy" lesson. If it happened more organically, without the mom asking the 16 yo to stay, I'd probably feel differently and think it was more OK since he didn't seem embarrassed about it.

As the adult in that situation, though, I personally would have said "Sure, dress up in her clothes for Halloween! So silly! Here's the bathroom, you can change in there!"

Just as it's not her place to tell the girls' mom what her comfort level should be, it wasn't the girls' mom's decision to make regarding the boy's body, his comfort level, and the boy's parents' comfort level.


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

Just my opinion, but i think you (the OP) totally overreacted. I wouldn't have aproblem with this at all.


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## SJane01 (Feb 24, 2006)

I discussed the issue with the other parent, and we've came to an understanding and there is no more hard feelings left over. She did not try to use my son as a show and tell for her girls. My son was offered the opportunity to change in the bathroom but turned it down on his own.

Also the door to the bedroom where the 3 were, was left open.

I'm OK with it now, and f it would happen again, DS knows I'd rather him change in the bathroom, but if he felt comfortable enough to do what he did, that its OK to do. \

Also.. Apparently the 12yo has changed in front of my DS to go swimming before. I guess its all even!


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I'm glad you guys talked and worked out a solution that is satisfactory for all involved.


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## mamahart (Sep 25, 2007)

I just wanted to put in my opinion as very similar to Choli's. Nudity is not an issue in our lives and skinny dipping and such are pretty acceptable in my peer group.
But a younger boy with the older girls....I would have checked in to make sure he felt OK then let it go.


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## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

Um, DSD (14 y.o.) here, but would be NOT ok with the situation. You are not crazy, I also believe that it is not appropriate.

I respect others' right to raise their kids whatever way they feel fit, but I don't think sign in along "it's their body - their decision" kind of mentality when they are only 14. No, I don't think 14 year old is the same as grown up, or they'd be working 40 hour work weeks, and living on their own, and having babies, and carrying household-full of responsibilities... thus far most of them just trying to pass 9th grade adn roll their eyes when you mention their cell phone bill or ask them if they can help out with taking out the trash...

I feel that it's parent's job to guide their kids, and there is nothing wrong in having your opinion voiced, setting rules and boundaries, or having a discussion with your child on this topic (the calmer you are - the better it is of course







)

Just my humble opinion...


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## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I myself would have no problem with it as long as my kid was comfortable. It's HIS body, not mine, so he gets to make the calls about what he is comfortable with. Of course, I only have daughters, maybe I would feel differently if I had a son. I would not have a problem with my DDs changing in front of peer age friends of either sex as long as they were comfortable with it.

this

there's no reason to insert shame/sexuality where it is not
people see my naked breasts pretty much daily!


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oriole* 
No, I don't think 14 year old is the same as grown up, or they'd be working 40 hour work weeks, and living on their own, and having babies, and carrying household-full of responsibilities... thus far most of them just trying to pass 9th grade adn roll their eyes when you mention their cell phone bill or ask them if they can help out with taking out the trash...

Actually, in many other countries, 14 yr olds are working full time, having babies and carrying responsibilities. Not all societies artificially extend childhood as modern western society does.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
It sounds like they just forgot he was a boy for a few. Which is GREAT!!! It means they were just seeing him as a friend/buddy and were playing dress up for Halloween. My daughter and her girlfriends do this, they'll make comments, change their mind once someone puts something on, and try something else etc. Watching the person get dressed is part of the process for deciding what to put on next, what to veto etc. Sounds like innocent fun to me. I would only be concerned in this case if I was the girl's mother. But only because I'd not want to upset the young man's parents.


I don't have a teen, but I used to be a teen girl, and this is the answer that makes the most sense. Especially since you say that you DS didn't WANT to leave the room. It's kind of like Barbies for big girls and boys!


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## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Actually, in many other countries, 14 yr olds are working full time, having babies and carrying responsibilities. Not all societies artificially extend childhood as modern western society does.

I grew up outside the US, so I'm quite aware of what is going on outside western society. I have been living here only for the past 8 years. That being said... I have seen all too much of what happens when "childhood is not extended". I personally will vote for "extending childhood" any day.









At the same time, I am not naive in thinking that 14 year olds lack sexual curiousity, but I don't believe that they are ready for what sexual experimentation holds for them at that age, and are barely responsible for themselves, let alone feelings, needs, and comfort level of potential sexual partners.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SJane01* 
I'm very liberal. But am I out of line here?

I'm not sure you're "out of line," but I do think you are making a big deal out of something that's not a big deal. We all have bodies, both of those girls know your son has a penis, I don't really think it's a big deal if they see his body (or he theirs).

dm


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## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

I wouldn't think it was a big deal -- in fact, I would be kind of proud of my son for being that open with himself as far as the changing and crossdressing . . .







: but I'm weird like that


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## momof2boys1girl (Nov 7, 2006)

I have a 12yr old ds and would not want him changing in front of a couple of girls. However I would not make him feel bad about it just explain that it probably is not the best idea and it might make some people uncomfortable. We are very open in our house about our bodies and functions. I am really surprised the mom did not have an issue with it.


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## norestfortheweary (Nov 13, 2007)

My son is 13 and has not really gone through puberty yet either. He also dressed like a girl for Halloween, and went around with his 2 best friends, both 15 year old girls. I doubt he would change in front of the girls (but now I realize I'm gonna ask him!) because of his lack of body hair. I would be concerned about friends (especially opposite sex friends) not giving each other privacy because I think that being watched while you're getting dressed can be uncomfortable.
But I'm writing here because my son's interest in girl stuff is not just because of Halloween. He wears eye liner every day, which drives my husband nuts. He is trying for an "emo" look (not Elmo!) with long hair in front of his eyes and very tight jeans. He spends the nights at the girls' houses and often comes home wearing their clothes.
I don't think my son is gay. I think he is waiting for his hormones to arrive, and until then it is easier for him to pull off the androgynous look than a masculine look. He is also loving the close, chatty friendship he has with these girls; they all hug each other good bye constantly. He has a crush on one...it is easy to imagine her getting a boyfriend her own age, and then he will be sad.
I've talked to him about how it would be difficult if he was labeled gay by other boys. At the school he goes to, it doesn't seem like a big deal, but at the regular high school, it probably would be. But I got a sense from him that being gay has a very cool, fashionable mystique to it with these kids.


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## Laggie (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *norestfortheweary* 
I've talked to him about how it would be difficult if he was labeled gay by other boys.

This makes me sad. I hope you've also told him that if he IS gay, you will still love and support him.

And I think guys in eyeliner are HOT. Not 13 year olds, obviously, but...


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

I guess since none of us were there, we won't know the details. But I certainly say that in my youth I did a lot of "Turn around and don't look!" clothes-chaning in front of my friends. Which, to me, would be entirely different than having the two friends stare him down while changing.


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## crysmomofthree (Mar 18, 2004)

I"ve really appreciated reading everyones different views







especially being a mom of 4 boys and one girl I wonder how I will respond differently to similar situations as my children grow.

and to the op I think its fine to be concerned, i'm glad you have a relationship with the other parent so you could talk to them about the event. And you must have a wonderful relationship with your son for him to want to tell you all the details of his night


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## norestfortheweary (Nov 13, 2007)

_"This makes me sad. I hope you've also told him that if he IS gay, you will still love and support him."_
In response to Laggie, who worried that my son wouldn't know I would love & support him, whether gay or not--yours is a good point. I could say that we have friends and relatives who are gay, including close friends with 3 kids my son's age, and that I whenever a kid uses "gay" as an insult, I am on it. But nonetheless, better for me to express my unconditional love to my son. Maybe he does wonder if he is gay, so it would be nice to know that it wouldn't matter to mom (and Pop too, but I would let him speak for himself).

And to me the eyeliner is no biggie, especially now that he has black hair dye he hopes to have the girls apply tomorrow...


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