# PLEASE HELP!!! (X posted) Small update...



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Ds1 bio father said he will spank ds1









I am freaking out!

He is Catholic and says it is Biblical to do so. I think he is wrong! If he lays a hand on my son, it will be war!









Help me find or explain scripture to set him straight.

He says Proverbs 13:24 sums it up for him :"Those who spare the rod hate their children, but those who love them chastice them" (something like that)

Please help.







I am sick to my stomach!









I have to give him info tomorrow!!!!

(Cross posted in Religious studies)


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

First,







Let me go find something. I know there's a ton of info on it, but I need to lay my hands on it.









Try reading these...
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/66/story_6690_1.html
http://www.christianitytoday.com/cpt/2003/002/6.50.html
http://www.fix.net/~rprewett/curtis.html
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/testimonials/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin8.htm

Still looking, but to get you started.


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

I am Catholic and I can see from your siggy that you are too. We do not spank our children. Remind him that the rod was used by the shepherd to guide the sheep and never to strike them. Jesus never talked about spanking children. In fact he loved and treated them gently. In my mind, every strike against my child would be a strike against Him.

My priest would never advocate hitting children. How is your/his priest? I would speak to the priest for guidance on this one. Maybe he could help you get through to your ex. Most Catholics I know would be receptive, if it came from a priest.

I hope you get through to him.


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

Found one more http://www.nospank.net/cox.htm


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

Here's some more info for you.
This link was written by a Catholic psychologist. He uses Church doctrine and scripture in his argument against spanking.

http://www.stophitting.com/religion/.../10reasons.php


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Here is a site against spanking: "parenting in Jesus' footsteps": http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/index.html

Here is another about Grace Based Discipline: http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...cm/beliefs.php

Don't panic, you can keep plying him with documentation. Tomorrow. And the tomorrow after that. And the tomorrow after that......

Pat


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## RootBeerFloat (Nov 22, 2005)

what about Dr Sears' book on Christian parenting?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I'm sorry! Just wanted to say I did a search for you and ughhh . .. all that came up was PRO spanking. I used the words God and spank.








Looks like you've got a lot of great ones here though to use as your ammunition! Have him look at nospank.net. If that doesn't change his mind I don't know what will!
Good luck!


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APMom98*
First,







Let me go find something. I know there's a ton of info on it, but I need to lay my hands on it.









Try reading these...
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/66/story_6690_1.html
http://www.christianitytoday.com/cpt/2003/002/6.50.html
http://www.fix.net/~rprewett/curtis.html
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/testimonials/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin8.htm

Still looking, but to get you started.









Thank you







I printed a bunch of these off...

He doesn't want me to homeschool either!


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Thank you mamas for your support and all of the links. I am just heart broken









He looked my son in the eyes and said, "Oh...don't you second guess for a second. I will spank you." Ds wasn'y even doing anything. Just putting on his shoes to go overnight







I had mentioned that my sister moved out because she thinks I should spank my children.







I thought he would be disgusted. Instead...he basically threatened Dominick!







I almost puked! uke

Then I said that it isn't Biblical he grabbed the Bible off of my shelf, laughed at me, and told me I obviously haven'y truly done a Bible study ever.


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

I don't homeschool my kids, they go to Catholic school. But, I did a very quick google search and here are some Catholic homeschool links. Let him see how many Catholic families choose this route.

www.catholichomeschooling.com

www.TheJubileeAcademy.org

www.love2learn.net/contact.htm

www.geocities.com/Heartland/8579

www.catholic-pages.com/dir/homeschooling

members.wri.com/billw/chs

www.ecatholic2000.com/links/pages/Homeschooling

http://www.ringsurf.com/netring?ring...ms;action=list

Holy $%^%^ I never realized how many do it either!

Good luck getting through to him!

Hugs to you and your son.


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## ~Scapegoat~ (Jul 30, 2004)

That sucks AngleBee, I am sorry.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Thank you mamas...

I am so upset. He walked away and wanted me to give ds1 up for adoption. We got preg without having intercourse. His whole family and all of his friends called me a whore. Thought I had cheated. We got a blood test.....obviously ds1 is his.

In 6 years he has played the role of an uncle. Dh has raised him since he was 1 Now bio wants a say..............he has a serious girlfriend for the first time since we broke up. Birthday #6 was the FIRST time he gave Dom a gift......because his girlfriend was there

Now he suddenly cares? uke Why won't he just let go?


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Oh....we broke up when I was about 5 months pregnant.


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## curlyfry (Feb 16, 2005)

please keep us posted mama...


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

gentlechristianmothers.com should have A TON of information that details all the scriptures you'd need in this issue and the forums is a great place to find out more - I'm sure there are plenty of people there that would be eager and informed to answer ANY questions you might have on the topic. HTH

I can't imagine how sick I'd feel in your situation. I'm really sorry you're going through this.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Thank you mamas.







Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Get the books "Parenting with Grace: The Catholic Parent's Guide to Raising (Practically) Perfect Kids" by Gregory Popcak (sp?)

Also, check out these threads:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=381068
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=246986

Your babydaddy is taking a book of the Bible that deals with young men (sexual immorality, gambling, etc) and choosing to take one verse and apply it to a small child. That's idiotic.

He's also taking one verse of the Bible and trying to use it to prove his point without looking at the whole of Scripture. That's called proof-texting, and it's shoddy Biblical study, and it's equally idiotic.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Also, read this
10 Reasons I Can't Spank: A Catholic Counselor's Critical Examination
of Corporal Punishment
http://www.stophitting.com/religion/.../10reasons.php

And never, ever google "spanking" and "Catholic"


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

I think you've gotten some great advice. I'll just second:

Quote:

How is your/his priest? I would speak to the priest for guidance on this one.
Our priest is fantastic and very gentle. Our church playgroup, however, is very "old school" on discipline issues. Go figure...


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Get the books "Parenting with Grace: The Catholic Parent's Guide to Raising (Practically) Perfect Kids" by Gregory Popcak (sp?)

Also, check out these threads:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=381068
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=246986

Your babydaddy is taking a book of the Bible that deals with young men (sexual immorality, gambling, etc) and choosing to take one verse and apply it to a small child. That's idiotic.

He's also taking one verse of the Bible and trying to use it to prove his point without looking at the whole of Scripture. That's called proof-texting, and it's shoddy Biblical study, and it's equally idiotic.

I JUST ordered that book. Thank you


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Thank you again mamas.







You do not know how I appreciate you







:


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## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)




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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

I don't know anything at all about this kind of situation, but is there some kind of legal recourse for you?

Is it possible to get his rights terminated, or at least get visitation stopped and have a judge decide? I may be really naive on this one, but I can't imagine a family judge deciding that it's OK to spank with all the studies and medical and psych literature out there detailing the harm done...

Especially considering that he is threatening hitting DS without any provocation... just "Oh you will be spanked." That's cold. Just seems to me that the law might back you up if you fight for it.

Do you have access to competent legal advice? Don't know where you are, but there are many free legal services for women around.








s


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

Terminating rights is extremely difficult because you have to prove he is unfit. Unfortunately threatening to spank or even spanking a child is "legal" in most places. Legal but not moral. He would probably have to be leaving bruises on the child, which then could be documented with photographs or a physician for this to happen. I have a friend whose ex was allowing her dd to ride in the bed of a pick up truck and watch rated R movies that were terrifying her. THere was nothing she could do because she had no "proof". I mean, he was letting her ride in the back of a truck. How dangerous is that? But, the little girls word wasn't considered "proof" in the eyes of the court. She did claim dd was "sick" a few times though









On the flip side of this, there is nothing he can do to stop you from homeschooling your ds. Another friend of mine homeschools her ds. Her ex is totally and completely against the whole thing. Too bad, it's up to her. She has custody. The law in this case is even more on mom's side if the couple was never married. (which it sounds like you weren't) If so, look into this. I know in many states, the dad has more rights if the couple was married and much less if they weren't.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I suggest a non-adversarial route. Providing spiritual based information with the assumption that the best interests of your son is your common goal. Seeking collaborative counselling from a Priest that he respects, and perhaps the documentation from the authorities of the Catholic Church (he's Catholic too?, or his Christian church) would work to meet his Biblical needs regarding discipline education.

Even homeschooling isn't worth creating an adversarial relationship, imo. And I am devoutly un-schooling. But, any adversarial relationship only lessons your ability to advise and find common preferrences in the best interests of the child, because every issue becomes a battle between you two. Unsupervised visits certainly scare me, but _worse so_ if legal parent is acting out to 'prove a point' to you out of anger. *Working to find a way to enhance his parenting skills will only be effective if he willingly *listens* to your pov*. I would work to preserve an amicable relationship *in order* to protect your son. It is much harder to work together after harsh words are said, than to just *LISTEN* to his concerns, and seek counsel about how to meet his needs, in addition to your own. I am not saying agree to spanking. I am saying hear what his concerns are related to obedience and help him to learn less violent ways to parent.

Even Dr. Sears and John Rosemond, another parenting author have documentation about 'the proper way to spank'. Providing information which helps the legal parent to moderate their anger and the violence will scar your son less than legal parent taking out his anger (at you), on the child. The psychological, emotional and physical aspects of anger are not 'turned off' immediately after a verbal altercation with you......and then ds is alone with him. Model keeping *your* cool.

Obviously, I am not pro-spanking in any way, shape or form. But, protecting your son to the best of your ability *when he is alone* is the priority. Unless there is a willing release of custody rights, this is your son's best chance at being parented gently, imo. One can only 'teach' someone who is willing to listen. Don't destroy that opportunity, if you can get past the emotional fear, to a place of just *listening* to what it is that legal parent needs, he might then be able to hear you.

The homeschooling becomes an challenge when ds is visiting legal parent, because then he needs to provide more supervision. Perhaps, finding a school that is most agreeable to you both is an option. Or, perhaps legal parent would agree to homeschooling until ~third grade, and then re-evaluate. Rather than making a 12 year decision at this point.

My heart is wretching for you. I am sorry that this is happening. I would certainly find out your legal privileges related to his abscence in the child's life and seek counselling for yourself to deal with this stress.

Btw, Jan Hunt and Naomi Aldort are AP/GD counsellors who do phone counselling. I am sure they have professional experience with both the spanking and homeschooling differences of opinion between parents.

Best wishes,

Pat


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Thank you again mamas.









Pat...I am taking it a year at a time. We are actually unschooling, but that is not a term I want to try to explain to ds1 bio father right now









I agree with trying to work together. It just makes me soooo anger when he thinks he knows what is best......he does not even really know Dominick. Dom is sooooo very excited to do homeschool/unschool for 1st grade. (Right now he does stuff at home but is taking classes at our parish in the preschool/kindergarden classes. He wants to homeschool/unschool full time next year







: )


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## fullofgrace (Nov 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Get the books "Parenting with Grace: The Catholic Parent's Guide to Raising (Practically) Perfect Kids" by Gregory Popcak (sp?)









: AM recommended this book to me as well and it has been fabulous for our family! A truly wonderful book.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fullofgrace*







: AM recommended this book to me as well and it has been fabulous for our family! A truly wonderful book.

It should be here in a couple of days. I look forward to reading it.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

UPDATE:

Thank you for the answers mamas.







I appreciate the support.









Now off to come up with defense for homeschooling...









Oh.....I printed off approx 20 articles, have pending personalized statements coming from Christians, pastors, and Catholics and had approx 7 books for him to look at today. He looked at NOTHING! All he said is "Where is your report on your position for homeschooling?"

What a ::::::::::: !!! uke (You fill in the blank)


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Angela, you don't have to play his game. He's not your headmaster, and you're not a schoolgirl, and you don't owe him reports. Seriously. Contact your lawyer, and let him or her deal with it.


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

So the two of you aren't married? I am so sorry mama.







I can't imagine how hard it would be to be in such a helpless situation.


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

I feel bad for you in this situation Anglebee. It's a tough one. I do hope some of the literature offered here will help. But really this would involve a shift in his fundamental beliefs from an authoritarian approach to Christianity to a more inclusive, equal and respectful one. That will involve a lot of personal work within himself which, if recent experiences on this very board are any indication (with similar issues to this one), cannot really come from outside sources. But hopefully you can plant some seeds.
Certainly looking into the legalities involved would be the first step.
I do wish you the best of luck with this.


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## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

Boy, he sounds like a peach of a Catholic/Christian. He's really got that Christian attitude perfected. Blech!!!

I'm really curious, though. If he is such a Bible expert, as he seems to imply by his Bible study experiences, does he not realize that in the "Spare the rod" example the "rod" is actually the tool used by shepards to *guide* the sheep, not hit them. No good shepard would have hit his sheep with that rod.

I'm Catholic, and I'm insulted that anyone would use my faith and religion as a reason to spank. Clearly he needs a bit more Bible study from the New Testament.


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## AccidentalHousewif (Nov 11, 2005)

AngelBee, it sounds to me like this isn't really about spanking or homeschooling or Christian doctrine or even Dominick per se, but about a power play with you, e.g., how much upset can he provoke and how many hoops can he put you through. Maybe he thinks this is the way to assert his role as father after being absentee pseudo-uncle for so long, or to show off his macho prowess for his new girlfriend. It is too bad that you & your little boy are stuck dealing with his acting-out









I do hope a non-adversarial approach works (counseling with a trusted priest sounds like a good start), but I would also consult a lawyer NOW to prepare for future developments. You don't have to file or initiate anything, I think it would be an excellent idea to find a copacetic lawyer to establish a relationship with and perhaps outline a formal custody/visitation/decision-making proposal to have in reserve should things get more contentious.


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## Mamma Mia (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AccidentalHousewif*
AngelBee, it sounds to me like this isn't really about spanking or homeschooling or Christian doctrine or even Dominick per se, but about a power play with you, e.g., how much upset can he provoke and how many hoops can he put you through. Maybe he thinks this is the way to assert his role as father after being absentee pseudo-uncle for so long, or to show off his macho prowess for his new girlfriend. It is too bad that you & your little boy are stuck dealing with his acting-out









I do hope a non-adversarial approach works (counseling with a trusted priest sounds like a good start), but I would also consult a lawyer NOW to prepare for future developments. You don't have to file or initiate anything, I think it would be an excellent idea to find a copacetic lawyer to establish a relationship with and perhaps outline a formal custody/visitation/decision-making proposal to have in reserve should things get more contentious.









: He seems like he's trying to assert dominance over you both. I would contact my lawyer asap if I were you.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I agree 100% with annettemarie.

You can print articles until your printer pack it in and I don't think it's going to change his opinion one iota. I am heartsick just imagining being in a position like yours, where some a**hole gets to influence your child like that just because he donated some sperm. You do have full legal custody, right? Can't you move away from this jerk? Can't you bargain him to sign away his rights somehow? Too bad there was a paternity test - you would probably have been better off telling him it wasn't his kid and washing your hands of him. But...since that's water under the bridge, get yourself a good lawyer, find out your rights, and get this jerk out of your son's life in any way you can.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *writermommy*
The law in this case is even more on mom's side if the couple was never married. (which it sounds like you weren't) If so, look into this. I know in many states, the dad has more rights if the couple was married and much less if they weren't.

That's interesting. In Canada it really has nothing to do with if you were married or not and all to do with if you EVER lived together after the baby was born. If you lived together at all after the baby was born, he has joint custody by default (and if you want anything different he either has to sign something or you take him to court).


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Angela, you don't have to play his game. He's not your headmaster, and you're not a schoolgirl, and you don't owe him reports. Seriously. Contact your lawyer, and let him or her deal with it.









You are sooo right. And I no longer will.

If he EVER touches my son, I will press charges period.

If he wants to know more about homeschooling, he can do the research.

He is a jackdonkey!









I will no longer play along in his sick twisted game


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin*
So the two of you aren't married? I am so sorry mama.







I can't imagine how hard it would be to be in such a helpless situation.

No. We were never married.

My dh trusts and supports my decisions as a mother and would NEVER expect me to "write a report" for him.









Oh my goodness....the more I think about all of this the more I see that this is more about him being emotionally abusive towards me and less about being physically abusive towards Dom.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TechnoGranola*
That's interesting. In Canada it really has nothing to do with if you were married or not and all to do with if you EVER lived together after the baby was born. If you lived together at all after the baby was born, he has joint custody by default (and if you want anything different he either has to sign something or you take him to court).

We never lived together before or after Dom was born.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jish*
Boy, he sounds like a peach of a Catholic/Christian. He's really got that Christian attitude perfected. Blech!!!

I'm really curious, though. If he is such a Bible expert, as he seems to imply by his Bible study experiences, does he not realize that in the "Spare the rod" example the "rod" is actually the tool used by shepards to *guide* the sheep, not hit them. No good shepard would have hit his sheep with that rod.

I'm Catholic, and I'm insulted that anyone would use my faith and religion as a reason to spank. Clearly he needs a bit more Bible study from the New Testament.









When I corrected him and explained the translation from Hebrew, he laughed at me and said I need to join a new Bible Study group.









He is so mislead...









I too am offended that he would use the Catholic (I am Catholic as well) faith as his scape goat to hurt a child


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Thank you mamas for your input and supprt.

I am going to contact a lawyer and develop a relationship with them.

I will try going to a priest first. If that does not work, then we will go to court.

I am also trying really, really hard to document everything.


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TechnoGranola*
That's interesting. In Canada it really has nothing to do with if you were married or not and all to do with if you EVER lived together after the baby was born. If you lived together at all after the baby was born, he has joint custody by default (and if you want anything different he either has to sign something or you take him to court).

I know that when I lived in Florida, if the parents were never married, full custody is automatic for the mother. The only way to do anything else is by proving her unfit, which is nearly impossible if she is a fit mom. I had a lot of friends and coworkers who were single moms when I lived there and the ball was definitely in their court. On the other hand, if you were married, you have to give your dc to ex dh for the entire summer and get his permission to move out of the state. If you try to move without this permission, you can lose custody. I've heard of some judges down there refusing to let women even move out of the COUNTY without the ex's permission. A huge difference in rights!


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
When I corrected him and explained the translation from Hebrew, he laughed at me and said I need to join a new Bible Study group.









Another interesting book is Heartfelt Discipline by Clay Clarkson. While he doesn't take a side for or against spanking, he firmly believes that the Bible does not REQUIRE parents to spank. He has a site here
http://www.wholeheart.org/books_heartfelt.asp


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I just want to put another plug in for striving to create a non-adversarial relationship. It is what your Bible teaches. *And adversarial relationships do not work*. He is in your life because he is your son's father, you can not eliminate his paternity. Trust that your prior life choices have led you here *to model* a different way for your son (and legal parent) to learn _how to be in relationships respectfully_. I too am working hard to learn how to do this among my family of origin for the same reasons: to consciously choose to live without imposing fear, threats and intimidation on others.

Please see the Center for Non-violent Communications at www.CNVC.org for powerful tools of conflict resolution. Also consider reading Thich Nhat Hahn's book "Peace is Every Step"; or Barry Kaufman's book "Happiness is a Choice" or "The Dance of Anger". The awareness of what we can control and what we can't control, and setting personal boundaries in non-adversarial ways can be utilized to create mutually agreeable solutions.

Threats and intimidation which beget threats and intimidation only escalate. Break the cycle. Be the change you wish to see. So much more is at stake if you succumb to the same methods as he.

Pat


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
I just want to put another plug in for striving to create a non-adversarial relationship. It is what your Bible teaches. *And adversarial relationships do not work*. He is in your life because he is your son's father, you can not eliminate his paternity. Trust that your prior life choices have led you here *to model* a different way for your son (and legal parent) to learn _how to be in relationships respectfully_. I too am working hard to learn how to do this among my family of origin for the same reasons: to consciously choose to live without imposing fear, threats and intimidation on others.

Please see the Center for Non-violent Communications at www.CNVC.org for powerful tools of conflict resolution. Also consider reading Thich Nhat Hahn's book "Peace is Every Step"; or Barry Kaufman's book "Happiness is a Choice" or "The Dance of Anger". The awareness of what we can control and what we can't control, and setting personal boundaries in non-adversarial ways can be utilized to create mutually agreeable solutions.

Threats and intimidation which beget threats and intimidation only escalate. Break the cycle. Be the change you wish to see. So much more is at stake if you succumb to the same methods as he.

Pat

This is truly what I want.

I am having trouble though balancing it out though. Being prepared in case it should have to go to court and sticking up for myself without casing it to be a fight. KWIM?


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Another interesting book is Heartfelt Discipline by Clay Clarkson. While he doesn't take a side for or against spanking, he firmly believes that the Bible does not REQUIRE parents to spank. He has a site here
http://www.wholeheart.org/books_heartfelt.asp

Thank you. I will check that out


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

just giving support


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Men are like toddlers







, we cause the power struggle when we say "no" without discussion and negotiation. By defaulting to "but if they don't do what I want, I am going to ____________" we STOP the negotiation and communication process.

Please see www.cnvc.org for more information about the process of Non-violent communications and de-escalating conflict resolution by addressing underlying *needs*.

Pat, just wanting to give support too.









I wish your family peace.

_With our thoughts we change the world.~Budda_

Universal Laws of Love, Forgiveness, Empowerment: http://www.1-spirit.net/pages/metaphysics/laws.htm


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
We never lived together before or after Dom was born.

Did you name him on the birth certificate as the child's father? In Canada again (ya sorry, I only know how it works here so it might not be much help!), if you do not live with the father when the child is born, you don't have to put their name on the birth certificate. If their name isn't on it, you have sole custody of the child. This is why (in Canada) is you live with him he automatically gets joint custody, because if you live with him, you have to put his name on the birth certificate.

If his name isn't on the birth certificate, definitely talk to a lawyer. You may have more rights than you realize.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

You don't have to put anyone's name on the birth certificate in Canada even if you are married or living with someone.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

In the States anyway, a possible father has every right to have a paternity test performed, and if positive, be added to the child's birth cert. Mom can't stop that if he is the father and wants it.

Pat, I like your link... Thanks for posting it. Very helpful!


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa*
You don't have to put anyone's name on the birth certificate in Canada even if you are married or living with someone.

This is true...however I think if you expect child support it helps to have his name on the birth certificate.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa*
You don't have to put anyone's name on the birth certificate in Canada even if you are married or living with someone.

I probably should have said birth registration (maybe it makes a difference?). But I believe the father has to agree to not having his name on it if you are married to, or living with him. If you are not living with him (and not married to him), he has no say in whether or not his name goes on. At least this is what both the Government of Alberta and Goverment of Saskatchewan have told me, approx. 7 years ago (maybe it's changed since then? or I was given inaccurate info by both agencies?).


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Well, I guess it varies by province because in ONtario, you do not have to put your husband or partner's name on the birth certificate. What if that person is not the father. They can petition for a paternity test of course, but they can't force you to put anyone's name on the birth reg.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa*
Well, I guess it varies by province because in ONtario, you do not have to put your husband or partner's name on the birth certificate. What if that person is not the father. They can petition for a paternity test of course, but they can't force you to put anyone's name on the birth reg.

In Alberta it seems to be goofy. If you are married, and let's say you had an affair and got pregnant, AND you are still living with your husband, you're husband has to be put on the birth registration as the baby's father, even though he isn't. Kind of weird and outdated I think. http://www3.gov.ab.ca/gs/information...hs/surname.cfm

Quote:

If the mother cannot declare the above four statements to be true, her husband must be listed on the Registration of Birth, as the father of the child. The child's naming options are the same as if the parents are married to each other.
Sorry AngelBee, I've taken this a bit off topic! It's just all very interesting to me. My point is though, make sure you talk to your lawyer about what rights he has being that you have never lived together and check to see if you have him listed as the child's father. This may or may not make a difference for you.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yes, sorry for the OT AngelBee.


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## Mamma Mia (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*







You are sooo right. And I no longer will.

If he EVER touches my son, I will press charges period.

If he wants to know more about homeschooling, he can do the research.

He is a jackdonkey!









I will no longer play along in his sick twisted game


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
Then I said that it isn't Biblical he grabbed the Bible off of my shelf, laughed at me, and told me I obviously haven'y truly done a Bible study ever.









How insultingly rude







:

I'm sorry you and your son are having to go through this annoyance.

~Nay


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## cgmama (Oct 17, 2005)

Get the books "Parenting with Grace: The Catholic Parent's Guide to Raising (Practically) Perfect Kids" by Gregory Popcak (sp?)

This book is GREAT for Catholic parents who want to GD. There is even a study circle to go with it, if anyone had a group of friends who wanted to go through the book, the Catechism and the bible together. Email me if you are interested -- it is all in word, so I can just email it to you.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

PLEASE talk to an attorney ASAP.

You must understand that in the US your child's father WILL have a right to unsupervised visits assuming he does not 1) forgo child support 2) abuse your child.

And you must understand that under US law, spanking (bare handed no mark left) is NOT considered abuse. Period.

NO Judge has ever denied custody OR VISITATION in a reported decision because a parent wanted to spank.

ANd Do not be tempted to make false allegations. THAT could lose you custody so fast your head would spin!


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## LadyMarmalade (May 22, 2005)

Thinking of you, Angelbee. I'm so sorry he's putting you in this awful situation.


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