# Our doctor's advice- vent



## TudoBem (Aug 30, 2004)

So we went to the pediatrician today to request sleep medication for ds (2 1/2). Our health is deteriorating, we're sick all the time, dh can barely work, the situation is quite desperate. So she prescribed something that we can't give more than once a week and gave us the following advice. She said we were to pad his room completely and lock the door at night. That we needed to do this to get him out of the "habit" of night-waking.
I find this so frustrating!!! Why can't anyone help us with this issue? My ds alternates between 2 nightwakings (workable) to every hour which is intolerable. Instead of trying to figure out why it gets to the intolerable point, people just tell us to cry it out. How will that help?
We've tried everything. I just read Sleepless In America which has some great advice but it's still not helping my ds.
No one wants to figure out what's wrong with these kids that are waking. They just want to apply these cruel simplistic solutions that cause more harm than good.
Why can't people understand that there are some kids for whom none of this will work and we need to figure out how to help them?


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## lanamommyphd07 (Feb 14, 2007)

question--have you been cosleeping?


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## TudoBem (Aug 30, 2004)

No. For the first wakings (until around 2-3 a.m.) dh will pick him up, walk up and down the hall, run the vacuum, rock him, etc. After 2-3 a.m. he will nurse to sleep and then dh will put him back in his bed.
If he sleeps with us, he wakes even more because he's roused by every movement and noise.


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## GwendalynsMommy (Mar 12, 2007)

Has he been checked to see if there is something medically wrong that may be causing this? It does seem a little excessive for a 2 1/2 year old. Although I still don't agree with locking him in a padded room. If he wakes when you move while co sleeping what about trying a mattress on his floor for a few nights and see what happens then. Maybe having you there would give him some comfort but he wouldn't be woken up by you moving around.


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## chickieleighc (Feb 10, 2006)

Have you tried a weighted blanket? Some of the kids I worked with who had sensory issues slept much better with a weighted blanket. Not to say there is anything WRONG with your son, just that the weight can be soothing.









Best wishes.

ETA: Oh, and I have to say, that doctor's advice sounds _barbaric._ Grr. And to think, many parents would follow the advice because a _doctor_ said it.







:

I'm sorry you aren't finding more support.


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## GwendalynsMommy (Mar 12, 2007)

I'm sorry by medically wrong I don't mean anything serious. I was thinking along the lines of UTI, ear infection, something minor.


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## chickieleighc (Feb 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GwendalynsMommy* 
I'm sorry by medically wrong I don't mean anything serious. I was thinking along the lines of UTI, ear infection, something minor.

Oh, GwendalynsMommy, I'm sorry for that emphasis in my comment if it sounded abrasive. It wasn't aimed at you, don't worry. I understood what you meant there.







I made sure to say that it doesn't mean something is wrong because I often mention tips that worked for the kids I know with sensory problems or who have autism, and the parents sometimes panic, thinking I mean that I think their child has autism, too, when I don't mean that at all. If that makes sense. Just trying to avoid pushing any parental panic buttons here.







*hugs*


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## mrsalf97 (Oct 22, 2004)

When my ds was 2 he was still waking 13 times a night to nurse. I just thought it was normal. He will be 7 next month and he still wakes up about 2 times a night most nights. Some nights he sleeps all the way through- wish I could.


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## jakigosch (Feb 23, 2007)

Some children are just very light sleepers. My sister's husband still wakes up at every noise! Maybe you can try getting some relaxation CDs or something that will block out any "extra" noise that might wake him? I definitely wouldn't let him "scream it out!" That can't be good for their security, I mean this poor little guy screaming for his parents because he's locked in his room and can't get out! Will the doctor pay for his couciling later in life because he's scared of being locked up and not able to get to those he loves? I can't believe a doctor would suggest such a thing!


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## heathenmom (Mar 9, 2005)

By the end of 2006, dd had been waking several times/night for nearly a year. By November, she was waking every hour (we cosleep, and she's 2). Not just waking, but sitting up in bed screaming and inconsolable. We thought it was night terrors and that there was nothing to be done except suffer through it with her. I was mid-pregnancy and exhausted and at my wit's end, when I posted here. Someone suggested a food intolerance - specifically dairy. I took her off dairy (completely, and it has been HARD) that day, and she has slept through the night ever since. Literally -- her improvement was that immediate. She had been tested for allergies and showed NO allergic reaction to ANYTHING they tested for (including dairy).

Just my experience ... I pass it on in hopes that it helps someone else.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:

No one wants to figure out what's wrong with these kids that are waking. They just want to apply these cruel simplistic solutions that cause more harm than good.
And sleep medication for a small child is not a cruel & simplistic solution? That just boggles the mind. Sorry.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

I want to second the possible allergy connection. We have a light sleeper too (heck, we are ALL light sleepers here) but if DS has any dairy the nightwakings are much, much worse. If your DC is still in diapers, do you notice a wetter diaper on the nights when he wakes more frequently? For us, dairy = more pee. I think sometimes just peeing wakes DS up. Next on our list is wheat but that will be such a mighty PIA to eliminate that I keep postponing it.


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## Acugirl (Jan 1, 2003)

I would try calmes forte by hylands...it works really well for my dd...
also, would look into food sensitivies...like others said.
good luck!


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## heathenmom (Mar 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Acugirl* 
I would try calmes forte by hylands...it works really well for my dd...
also, would look into food sensitivies...like others said.
good luck!

I tried Calmes Forte first. It's made with lactose - milk sugar - so with our (at the time undiagnosed) dairy problem it actually made things worse.







:


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## cahwilson (Jan 24, 2007)

I feel your frustration upon getting that kind of advice. Before we were cosleeping dd (7 months) woke up every 15 minutes at night and eventually started banging her head. The ped's advice...pad her crib and shut the door and let her cry and bang her head. Just hearing that made me bawl my eyes out and I knew I could never, thus starting my long journey to discovering natural family living and ap. Its horrible to even hear them say to do something like that. It breaks my heart. We have also figured out that dd has a dairy senstitvity. I am working on cutting that out and things are getting better also co sleeping helped us because I do not have to fully wake up with her, but I know you said that didn't work for you. I would look into the food sensitivities. Dd was like your ds and would wake 2 times some nights and then every 15 minutes other nights. It was a problem that we could not get any help with either except for CIO advice until I found mdc and ppl suggested the dairy thing. I hope you can figure it out and get some sleep!


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

I am assuming you have looked into melatonin(sp?)?








this must be so difficult for you and your dh


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## TudoBem (Aug 30, 2004)

It's possible it could be food sensitivity, though I can't imagine what he would be sensitive to. We've done the food allergy testing which came out negative.
We do use a weighted blanket and melatonin. Calms Forte unfortunately had no effect.
What I think is the critical piece in all of this is that he doesn't always wake every hour. Sometimes he wakes only 1-2 times a night. So there has to be some factor involved in why he wakes more when he does.
I'm thinking it's some sort of hyper-arousal, perhaps he's more affected by stress of some sort.
And I know there are people who would recommend that he learn to self-soothe which I'm not against except that with ultra sensitive, irregular, slow to adapt children like mine I'm not sure they even have this capability at such a young age. At what age we can help him to calm himself I don't know.
With the possibility of food allergies, is milk the biggest culprit? Any others to investigate?
The doctor's advice drives me crazy, though, too, because even if we were for CIO (which obviously we're not) I have a child who wouldn't respond to it. My child would scream for hours and vomit until he passed out. Giving blanket advice like that without taking the child's temperament and needs into consideration is ludicrous.
In Sleepless In America, Mary Kurcinka talks about the necessity of calming our children so that they can go into sleep. The idea of abandoning him to scream is hardly facilitating sleep. I can't believe doctors give such ridiculous advice to CIO when it clearly isn't addressing or really solving the issue.


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## chickieleighc (Feb 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TudoBem* 
With the possibility of food allergies, is milk the biggest culprit? Any others to investigate?

Dairy is definitely a problem for us. DS has a neurological reaction to it, so I know it is possible. I know I need to go back and check the foods I've eaten that day if DS is a bear to get to sleep. Dairy seems to hype him up and it's harder for him to settle, and once he does, he sleeps more lightly.

A friend of mine has had to remove wheat from her son's diet due to problems with his behavior and hyperactivity. I understand that it is another big culprit. Maybe keeping a food diary and/or doing an elimination diet would be something to look in to for you guys.

I want to second the advice of newbymom05 about checking to see how often he is peeing on those nights. My son cannot pee in his sleep, and always has a brief awakening to eliminate at night. Once we started doing elimination communication with him he would pee to empty his entire bladder before bed and then he often will hold it until dawn until I take him to potty. He's sleeping MUCH better now, but on the nights he has a lot of awakenings, I do notice that his diaper is a lot wetter.


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## ani'smommy (Nov 29, 2005)

Is he taking regular naps? Maybe he needs to sleep more during the day so that he can rest better at night?

You've probably already thought of that, just wanted to give you a


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## Nosy (Feb 23, 2004)

I am not a big believer in the traditional food allergy testing because I think it misses a lot of the time. I would eliminate dairy or gluten and see if you notice a difference. I'm another person whose DS didn't sleep until we eliminated the allergen in the diet (in our case gluten). What about a craniosacral therapist? We went to one who said our DS was probably having headaches that were keeping him from sleeping so she adjusted him. I'm not convinced it made much of a difference in our case, but it's worth a shot. I would keep a diary of the days' foods & also sleep...does it happen more if he gets up earlier, misses a nap, etc.


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## momma earthical (May 21, 2006)

Hugs mama. It is so hard to keep going sometimes when you are suffering from chronic sleep deprivation.

I fully support all the pp who recommend checking for food sensitivities. I know you said you had allergy testing done, but an allergy and a sensitivity are different. I also want to throw another thought in, have you checked for pinworm /thread worm? It can cause irritability, restlessness and nightwaking in children.

Good luck.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

For mine at that age -- nightweaning made an impact. Not a sleep-through-the night impact! But a wake-up-twice instead of wake-up-hourly impact. Which IMO, is significant! But 2.5 was a good age for my son, because we were able to talk about nightweaning and come to an agreement of sorts about what would to expect, and he was able to comprehend the reassurance that he could nurse in the morning.

Also -- have you tried playing continuous classical music or white noise? I find that it has too be at a volume that is high enough to drown out all the little noises that occur during the night and disrupt sleep, but that it really makes a difference.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

P.S. - that advice from the doctor would have made me crazy too. A sensitive child does not need more tension and stimulation in the middle of a hard night!


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## grisandole (Jan 11, 2002)

Our ds2 started sleeping well once we cut out gluten and dairy. All of it. For him, gluten was the main issue, dairy was more of a secondary thing. I would try it for a few weeks......it can't hurt!


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## eldadeedlit (Jun 22, 2004)

nightweaning made a HUGE HUGE difference with both of my older ones. They weaned when I was pregnant (both of them) and when they did they slept SO much better.

They basically weaned themselves though, so I don't know how hard this would be for you, if you were initiating it. Just seconding what a PP said.

Veronica


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

can i take your doctor and lock HIM in a padded room all night?

another food allergy = hourly nightwaking survivor here. not so simple as eliminating dairy for us (soy and so many other things and "leaky gut" etc.etc.), but bad nights were associated with other allergy signs: darker circles under her eyes, more agitated behavior, target sign = bright red tissue around her anus, mucus in her stool, and other things that i forget as the years go by (she's almost 6).

there are many types of allergy testing, and the most common looks for IgE allergies (the kind that the skinprick test looks for, the kind that make your lips itch/swell, sneezy/runny nose, anaphalactic shock at the worst), but nightwaking is more commonly associated with IgG allergies. i'm too scattered to give a lot of explanation of the specifics right now, but check out the allergy forum, and you'll see a lot of behavior issues due to allergies. i just today heard from a friend with a baby who has sensitivity to wheat and dairy, and his mom just noticed that his older sister (2 3/4) is back in diapers just since they stopped milking the cow (to breed her) and so started to have pasteurized milk again. she had been out of diapers for ?9 mos. she had never even considered there to be any dairy allergy in her daughter, who had had only raw milk since getting the cow over a year ago.

sorry to be so rambly. mainly wanted to second (3rd, 4th...) the idea of dairy or other allergy being the culprit, even when classic IgE symptoms aren't present.


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## Ambrose (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GwendalynsMommy* 
Has he been checked to see if there is something medically wrong that may be causing this? It does seem a little excessive for a 2 1/2 year old. Although I still don't agree with locking him in a padded room. If he wakes when you move while co sleeping what about trying a mattress on his floor for a few nights and see what happens then. Maybe having you there would give him some comfort but he wouldn't be woken up by you moving around.

You might want to look into this. We can't affor d a weighted blanket so we cover DD in a folded adult sized quilt and 3 other toddler sized blankets and that's helped her a bit and she doesn't wake up near as much. We do have to have a fan pointed on her because she sweats though.


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## 3 little birds (Nov 19, 2001)

None of my children slept through the night until we eliminated gluten and dairy and made sure they ate "wet" foods before bed-fruit and such. Immediately, the night waking stopped. I also don't believe that allergy testing is effective, only elimination and reintroduction.


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## Cujobunny (Aug 16, 2006)

A Padded Room! Unbelievable! I'm literally picturing some poor little child in their room bashing their head and body off the wall. Why? What? OMG I can't even fathom this. Poor babies.

For us nightweaning really helped too... he immediately went from waking average 3 times a night to waking once, and about 3 times a week we don't hear a peep out of him all night.








all the best to you, good luck I hope you all get some rest soon.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3 little birds* 
None of my children slept through the night until we eliminated gluten and dairy and made sure they ate "wet" foods before bed-fruit and such. Immediately, the night waking stopped. I also don't believe that allergy testing is effective, only elimination and reintroduction.

Can you please elaborate on this? What's the benefit of having "wet foods" before bed?


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## CaraboosMama (Mar 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momma earthical* 
Hugs mama. It is so hard to keep going sometimes when you are suffering from chronic sleep deprivation.

I fully support all the pp who recommend checking for food sensitivities. I know you said you had allergy testing done, but an allergy and a sensitivity are different. I also want to throw another thought in, have you checked for pinworm /thread worm? It can cause irritability, restlessness and nightwaking in children.

Good luck.

I would 2nd (3rd, etc). this recommendation. Allergy testing (scratch test) is NOT always effective for food allergies. ELISA testing is a bit more accurate, elimination diets/food journals might help. The Feingold diet (do a board or google search) might help as well. We don't do Feingold 100% anymore (we do the 2nd stage) but I know if DD has any artifical flavors or colors in her food we are in for a rough night. Hope this helps!


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Sleepless in America is a great resource. IMO, if you're still having issues, I'd look at underlying health issue. Allergies, reflux, flora imbalance...something.

I'll fourth (?) the recommendation to not take allergy testing results as conclusive. Have you read Is This Your Child by Dr. Doris Rapp? It was a lifesaver for us. We went to several allergists who had no idea about the tests Dr. Rapp discusses. Totally lacking in information--very frustrating. They just wanted to prescribe Claritin














not get to the underlying cause. Just treat the symptoms









I would recommend checking out the Allergy subforum in Health and Healing







and also second the Feingold recommendation. It can be life-altering for many families









I'm constantly amazed at the lack of accurate and helpful doctors advice I hear every day


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## TudoBem (Aug 30, 2004)

Thanks for the recommendations. We are trying the gluten/dairy free diet for a while to see if it makes a difference. There is a learning curve, though, as I'm finding every day little things that have gluten or dairy that I had no idea. We've been averaging 2-3 nightwakings a night for the last several nights so there's definitely improvement, but daytime behavior is worsening. Could this be due to gluten detox? Did anyone else experience this?
For those on the elimination diet, how long did you have to do it?


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## 3 little birds (Nov 19, 2001)

Re: "wet foods"
We found that when the children ate cooked dry foods (rice, beans,) in the hours immediately before they would wake crying. When they ate those foods earlier in the day and then ate apples, cucumbers, grapes or "wet foods" in the hours before bed, they would not wake. It did not seem to help when they ate the dry foods and then drank lots of water.

As far as the elimination diet, I have heard at least 2 weeks for both gluten and dairy, but that could vary.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

WOW! And I'm usually quite outspoken - but if any MD said that to me my jaw would be flapping in the wind for quite some time...


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## heathenmom (Mar 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TudoBem* 
For those on the elimination diet, how long did you have to do it?

For us, the results were literally immediate. She's been off dairy since early December (with a few trip-ups as I learned to read labels even more voraciously than I was before). Honestly, the improvement has been so tremendous that I'm afraid to reintroduce dairy back into her diet -- even though I'm really curious as to how she'd tolerate raw milk and/or goat's milk.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

I'd also think about the Herbs for Kids with valerian and chamomile, and possibly melatonin (I haven't researched it much for use with kids).


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## thorn (Dec 28, 2004)

how much have you messed with the sleep environment? it took quite a bit of tinkering around to find Catie's perfect sleep room. It has to be very cool - 68 degrees or less. It has to be dark but with just a *little* bit of light. A full nightlight was too much, but we hid the night light behind a bookcase and that worked. She has to have white noise, we use a Homedics white noise machine on the "white noise" setting (it has rain, ocean, etc. but that one works best. She sleeps with a light duvet but no other sheets/blankets/etc.

Like I said, it took a while for us to get it all right. Also are all of his teeth in? you said he is 2.5 so probably so, but the 2 year molars caused several weeks of night-waking for us.


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## SMoody (Dec 22, 2006)

I see you got lots of different advice. I will start by going through all of them and try different stuff. I had the same with my girl when we had lots of moving . First houses then countries. But it got better by just co-sleeping and rocking her. It started up again and we finally found out she had a really bad ear infection.

I use rescue remedy drops on her if she gets a bit too stressed out with stuff. Worth a try.


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