# Princess by Jean Sasoon and the state of affairs of Arabian Women



## MamaLuna (Feb 13, 2002)

(I posted a similar thread in the 'books' section, but decided this was also an appropriate place.)

Have any of you read this book??? I am so shocked and disgusted by the contents of this book, I need any outlet. It has also gotten me really depressed about the whole situation of women in Arabian countries ...and I feel so helpless to do anything about it!! On the other hand, it makes me soooo grateful for my life, ups & downs and all.

For those of you who have not read it...it is the true story of a princess in Saudi Arabia and airs the brutal and sad truth of being a woman with NO rights, NO freedom, NO protection what-so-ever. If you are considering reading this book, be prepared to be shocked and saddened. It's not exactly light-hearted reading, especially for sensitive people like me, who take it all to heart. It takes place in modern times, BTW, it was published originally in 1993.

I have also heard the argument this trilogy of books (there are actually 3, this one being the first) would convince almost anyone to support war against most any of these Arabian countries, for the purpose of liberating the women. I would be interested to hear from others about this as well.

~Erin


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## mahdokht (Dec 2, 2002)

I have read these books. It's like a soap opera, makes for fascinating entertainment, but like other books of this genre (Not without My Daughter, You won't believe how backwards those Muslims are ...) I take it with a grain of salt.

Although I believe that many of Saudi Arabia's laws and how they are carried out are unislamic and in violation of human rights I also know that this literary trilogy and much of the dramatic information about women in Saudi Arabia needs to be looked at within the larger context of the culture and other more scholarly works. Our own Cynthia Mosher has lived in the Kingdom of S.A. for about 20 years now. Marg of Arabia and Hilary Briss lived there as well. I have some friends who lived there. Not royalty, just your average working class everyday folks. Their lives weren't nearly as dramatic as that of this mystery "Princess." I imagine that if Jenna Bush came out with a tell all about her family, that the average American wouldn't want to be judged by it ya' know?

**edited to add** All Arab countries can not be judged by the goings on of the Saudi Royal family. Even if every person in America were to read this book, it would be nothing short of sheer ignorance, bigotry and short-sitedness to decide to bomb all Arab countries because of the alleged crimes committed by one -albeit very large and powerful- family in ONE Arab country.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

I've read all three books as well as other books about Saudis from other points of view.

Let's just say I'm glad I'm Canadian living in Canada where I have rights and freedoms.

I will never go to the middle east without either being married or until my son is old enough to "vouch" for me. Going without a male relative is almost suicide from what I read in the other books.


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## mahdokht (Dec 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamid*
I've read all three books as well as other books about Saudis from other points of view.

Let's just say I'm glad I'm Canadian living in Canada where I have rights and freedoms.

I will never go to the middle east without either being married or until my son is old enough to "vouch" for me. Going without a male relative is almost suicide from what I read in the other books.

You've decided this about the entire middle east based on reading books about Saudi Arabia? That's like saying you would never travel to Canada because you read books about crime in the USA. Do you really believe that a female traveler in any middle eastern country is committing suicide by going? Women aren't randomly killed off there anymore than they are in the U.S. In fact you'd be much safer as a lone woman walking down an Iranian or Qatari street at night than one in the U.S. or Mexico. What books have you read that bring you to these conclusions?


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

I was raised as a baha'i, so I have better knowledge of what goes on in the middle east and how women are treated than what was in the mass marketed books.

So, yes, I'm condemming all of that area because of what I read. Nevermind the personal stories I was told from women fleeing for their lives. And not just grown women either. Girls as young as 6 would tell me these horror stories.

It is simply safer to go with a male relative - father, brother, uncle, son, husband - than to go alone.


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## mahdokht (Dec 2, 2002)

Mamid said:


> So, yes, I'm condemming all of that area because of what I read.
> 
> 
> > That's too bad.


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## Katie Bugs Mama (Feb 1, 2004)

I think that "Princess" is bunk. I simply don't believe that it is actually a true story. It might be based on a kernal of truth, but it's definitely highly-sensationalized. If you want a much better view of women's lives in the Gulf states, read "Women of Sand and Myrrh." It's a touch dated now, but it's a good book.

If you want to hear how Muslim women's lives in their own voices, watch "Paradise Lies at the Feet of the Mother," part of the "Living Islam" video series. It's a bit apologetic for my taste, but it's an accessible way to hear women from various socio-economic classes in Egypt and elsewhere in the Islamic World talk about their lives, families, religious beliefs, etc.

The sad fact is that violence against women is (and probably always has been) endemic to all parts of the world. I don't think that violence against women is any more common in the Middle East or the rest of the Islamic world than it is, for example, in the United States. The biggest difference is not the level of violence against women but rather the forms that it takes and the legal recourse that a female victim has.


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## Katie Bugs Mama (Feb 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamid*
I was raised as a baha'i, so I have better knowledge of what goes on in the middle east and how women are treated than what was in the mass marketed books.

So, yes, I'm condemming all of that area because of what I read. Nevermind the personal stories I was told from women fleeing for their lives. And not just grown women either. Girls as young as 6 would tell me these horror stories.

Mamid, as I'm sure that you know, the baha'i are horribly persecuted throughout the Gulf. Whatever these women suffered--and I'm sure that it was horrible and I wish that they could have been spared it--was probably at least as much because of their religion as their gender.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamid*
I will never go to the middle east without either being married or until my son is old enough to "vouch" for me. Going without a male relative is almost suicide from what I read in the other books.

Wow. You really believe this?!? I'm a non-Muslim, American woman, and I've lived in both Damascus and Cairo by myself. And I lived to tell the tale. In fact, one of the hardest things to adjust to in both cases was how incredibly safe I was. And one of the hardest things to adjust to about moving back home was that I had to relearn how to be cautious and afraid.


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## MamaLuna (Feb 13, 2002)

I would have to agree with Mamid that travelling as a women alone in SA--and I cannot speak for other Arab countries--presents some very real threats. Yes, women may be safe as far as the usual crimes against women that occur here in the USA or in Mexico go, but as a single woman in SA, you are vulnerable to the wrath of the religious police. A simple act of speaking to an unrelated man could lead to your death by stoning. You have to admit that that is frightening. This Amnesty site can attest to that:

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/...riefing/4.html

Also, while you may not believe everything in the Princess books, but you cannot argue with the fact that there are severe and harsh abuses, not to mention human rights violations, happening to women in SA. I would also hardly call the incidents in the book entertaining. They were haunting and very disturbing. And while Sultana, the princess, is clear to point out that the abuses she describes are not in alignment with Islamic beliefs, the incident that was most disturbing for me--the one in which a girl was locked in a dark room w/ no human contact until she dies-- originated from a verse in the Koran. I can't quote it right now because I no longer have the book, something about 'if a woman is convicted of lewd behavior she shall be put away until death takes her'...something like that.

Katie Bugs Mama, while I agree that violence against women is common in all parts of the world, the fact that (according to the book, please correct me if this info is wrong) the birth and death of women in SA are not even recorded...they basically don't exist. So even taken with a grain of salt, how can this treatment and complete lack of respect for women be justified or accepted???


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## Katie Bugs Mama (Feb 1, 2004)

Mama Luna,
Just a couple of quick points:
1) Mamid was talking about traveling to the Middle East as a whole not to Saudi Arabia in particular. That's what I responded to. Like you, I wouldn't travel to SA by myself, but (as Mahdokht said) it's unfair to condemn the entire region based on the situation in one country.

and

2) I wasn't trying to defend SA's record on human rights, especially towards women. That would be ridiculous, since the legal position of women there is only a few degrees better than, say, the position of women under the Taliban. The points that I was trying to make were that "Princess" might not be the best source for learning about the lives of women in SA and that "Princess" certainly isn't the best source for learning about the lives of women living in other parts of the ME.


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## Marg of Arabia (Nov 19, 2001)

I haven't read the book. I do not have time to write much. I believe most Saudi women are content with their lives. Western women have trouble understanding the way women live in Saudi Arabia or how they could ever be happy. The funny thing is, Saudi women think the same of Western women. They see our society as very dangerous for women(rapes and other crimes are very high here). They see American women having to struggle with work and family and with little family support(extended family).

The tradition of covering up is to protect women and is a very old tradition. Many Saudi women like to cover. It is just so hard for us to understand. Saudi women have trouble understanding how a Western woman could walk around in front of strangers in a bikini. Many things we accept as normal, they think are very strange.

I would like to write more about it but do not have time. I will try to come back!


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## mahdokht (Dec 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaLuna*
.

I have also heard the argument this trilogy of books (there are actually 3, this one being the first) would convince almost anyone to support war against most any of these Arabian countries, for the purpose of liberating the women. I would be interested to hear from others about this as well.

~Erin


Erin I am curious as to why you posted this in Activism. The only 'activism' that you proposed is the above. Do you believe that war against a country liberates women? If so, please explain how. If not, then what would you propose we do to liberate the women of Arab countries? Also, what would you propose we do about non-Arab women who under unjust legal systems, what is so special about Arab women that only they deserve liberation? And, what would liberation entail?


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Princess, Princess Sultana's Daughter's and Princess' Circle (I think that's the third one) are snapshots of an Al Saud princess' life in the 1970s to mid 1990s. That doesn't mean they weren't valid when they were written. that doesn't mean they aren't still valid now.

Punishments for women in those middle eastern countries are severe. There, a woman's testimony in court is worth half that of a man, if at all. She is subserviant to her closest male relative - be it her father, brother, uncle, husband or son. Depending on which area, a woman showing her face - even a western one - could be stoned to death. For women, the penalty for adultery is death - usually by stoning. The "women's room" mentioned in the books is worse than prison. Even in supermaxes, inmates get a little bit of contact with the outside world.

There is a legend within the baha'is about the first woman to unveil herself. Their religious leader, Baha'u'llah, commended her for doing that saying that no woman should have to veil herself anymore. It was originally introduced to keep women safe during raids. If all the women were veiled, the pilferers wouldn't know if they were grabbing an old or young woman.

The first woman of the baha'is to unveil herself was such a shock to the men around her that several fainted and one killed himself on the spot by slitting his throat. This was well over 100 years ago, but many of the attitudes haven't changed.

These are countries where if a woman refuses a man's "advances" and defends herself, she could be killed. Where 9yo girls and younger are sold by their parents to rich men and then tossed out like garbage after their virginity and usefullness is done with. Countries where Female Genital Mutilation still happens. Where a woman in labour can't even unveil herself to her doctor. Where women still must be educated in secrecy. Where women have to go out to the market in twos or more or they could be killed. Where talking to a man who isn't an immediate relative could be a death sentence.

Where 16 year old girls are killed for teaching younger girls. Where 12yo girls have to put on the veil or they are treated like whores by their male relatives. Where the consulates of our countries have their hands tied if our people get into trouble.

It is simply far safer to go there with an immediate male relative to speak for you if you are a woman. If you are in trouble and manage to get to an embassy, you're usually safe.

Turkey isn't SA, but one incident that I was told about was where a woman did protect herself from an unwelcomed "advance" (read: attempted rape) and beat the shit out of the jerk. The backpacking hostel she was at got her the hell out of the country because if the authorities caught up with her, she'd have been killed. The justification was that she was an unveiled woman walking unescorted at night.

I've also heard horror stories about how friends of mine in the armed forces where in Desert Storm and how the women who fought for "our side" so to speak couldn't wear anything but long sleeves, a veil like back to their hats and couldn't go anywhere without other armed forces personnel with her.

Even here, in Canada, some of the men from SA and the middle east treat "western women" like whores. One incident, a man on one of those telephone party lines with a definate arabic accent screamed at me when he called me and I said I couldn't talk to him right then, then found me 10 minutes later on the party line. He had said he was a sultan and had lots of money etc etc etc and how dare I not talk to him when _he_ demanded it and he tore into me over it. Called me whore and worse. That was the last call I made to that party line. (hey, I was lonely, had just left DD's stupidhead sperm donor and wanted some entertainment, but not that)

Any country where there is the veil, women are in danger. How can a populace be free when half of them are imprisonned behind walls - be they of fabric, mud, wood, plaster or cement.


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## Katie Bugs Mama (Feb 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamid*
These are countries where if a woman refuses a man's "advances" and defends herself, she could be killed. Where 9yo girls and younger are sold by their parents to rich men and then tossed out like garbage after their virginity and usefullness is done with. Countries where Female Genital Mutilation still happens. Where a woman in labour can't even unveil herself to her doctor. Where women still must be educated in secrecy. Where women have to go out to the market in twos or more or they could be killed. Where talking to a man who isn't an immediate relative could be a death sentence.

Unfortunately, there are lots of places in the world where women and girls are treated like this. Some of them are in the Middle East; many of them are not. If you insist on condemning an entire society based on a handful of sensationalized books, some anecdotes, and a rude guy on a chat line, then there really isn't much more for us to talk about.


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## MamaLuna (Feb 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mahdokht*
Erin I am curious as to why you posted this in Activism. The only 'activism' that you proposed is the above. Do you believe that war against a country liberates women? If so, please explain how. If not, then what would you propose we do to liberate the women of Arab countries? Also, what would you propose we do about non-Arab women who under unjust legal systems, what is so special about Arab women that only they deserve liberation? And, what would liberation entail?

Mahdokht,
in the case of Afganhistan, when the Taliban were uprooted, it would appear that women where then liberated, whether or not they are better off for it, I don't know. However, I am NOT in support of war against any country, really. Yes, I would like to see the women of SA have more rights, more freedom...but no, I don't think that justifies war.

How would I propose change? I don't know, that's why I posted this in the first place. I was very disturbed by what I read and wanting to do something about it. There is nothing worse than reading about human suffering, of any kind, and feeling like nothing is being done about it. I guess letter writing is one option, as the Amnesty site suggests, but it seems very ineffective (much the way letters written against the war in Iraq made little difference







: ).

Ultimately, what I would like to see are laws to protect the women in SA and allow them more choices. First, and foremost, they should be acknowledged, their births and deaths recorded; they should be allowed more freedom of movement, allowed to drive; they should have the option of unveiling, or at the very least, allow their eyes to go uncovered. NOt to mention, it would be nice if they did away with arranged marriages...the practice of 60-some yo men marrying 12 yo girls (ie sex slaves) should certainly disappear.
How to bring about those changes?? I don't know...I suppose if the countries buying the oil (ie USA) were to put enough pressure on the ruling family to effect change and clean up their record of human rights violations, it is a possibility.

Also, I don't believe I ever said that only the Arab women deserve liberation. Ever woman in every country deserves respect and the freedom to speak up, to be educated, to choose her own mate, etc, etc, etc.... This is certainly not meant as an attack on Arab countries. I realize that in other Muslim countries, women have more freedom.
However, I am wondering in what other countries do women have so few rights as they do in SA??? And I am trully asking, because I just don't know enough about it.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Quote:

Unfortunately, there are lots of places in the world where women and girls are treated like this. Some of them are in the Middle East; many of them are not. If you insist on condemning an entire society based on a handful of sensationalized books, some anecdotes, and a rude guy on a chat line, then there really isn't much more for us to talk about.
I guess 18 years being told of the treatment of women in the middle east counts for nothing but "some anecdotes."

Shame that. I guess you'd say the same about Auschawitz.


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## MamaLuna (Feb 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marg of Arabia*
I haven't read the book. I do not have time to write much. I believe most Saudi women are content with their lives. Western women have trouble understanding the way women live in Saudi Arabia or how they could ever be happy. The funny thing is, Saudi women think the same of Western women. They see our society as very dangerous for women(rapes and other crimes are very high here). They see American women having to struggle with work and family and with little family support(extended family).

Marg,
I believe what you are saying, but I don't think it speaks for every woman that they are content with the way things are. In the book, it talks about how when Saddam invaded Kuwait and the Kuwaitis fled to SA, the Kuwaiti women went unveiled and even *gasp* drove cars, and this prompted some Saudi women to do the same. Those small acts of rebellion were quickly shut down, the bold women punished...but it proved that there are some that are not content with the way things are, and that there are some secretive groups, mostly amongst the younger Saudis, the ones who have travelled abroad, and amongst the middle class, who seek change.


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## MamaLuna (Feb 13, 2002)

Me again.
To add to Mamid's above comment....
What is the point of this conversation, to defend the ME? Afterall, ANY country--muslim or not-- that allows the abuse of women within the structure of it's society and it's laws deserves to be codemned.
Or is the purpose of this to defend the rights of those abused women?


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Mamaluna:





































Quote:

ANY country--muslim or not-- that allows the abuse of women within the structure of it's society and it's laws deserves to be codemned.
That's exactly why I won't go there unescorted!


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## Marg of Arabia (Nov 19, 2001)

yes, ML, just as every western woman does not experience abuse or rape from being in a "free" society. That is why I tried to make posters here look at it in reverse. I would never claim to know about the experiences of every woman in any society. I said "most" and only in Saudi Arabia. I didn't read the book. I am just offering my view. This is what "most" believe. Not all.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

I'm re-reading Sultana's daughters. In the first 80 pages I was once again appalled by the description of how women, and girls, are treated.

It just saddens me that in a country as rich as that, half the population is little better than slaves.


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## mahdokht (Dec 2, 2002)

Mamid-

It sucks to be a minority anywhere, whether you are a First Nations person in Canada, an African-American in the U.S., a shi'a in Saudi Arabia or a Baha'i in Iran. Some places are worse than others. I appreciate the hell that minorities often suffer, I am a member of several minority groups myself and have seen and heard horrible stories of torture, false imprisonment, beatings and attempted murder of people who I care about deeply because they had the wrong beliefs or skin color in the wrong place.

I have traveled to the Middle East and have spent nearly half of my life living near and amongst people of varying middle eastern backgrounds, mostly Arab. Both Marg and Katie Bug's Mom have travelled in the Middle East as well. You have spent a great deal of your life hearing stories of people who suffered there. I spent a great deal of my life hearing stories of people who dearly love thier countries, many of whom live their happily. They work to change what is wrong and take pride in what is right, much like you probably do in Canada, much like I do here in the U.S.A.

I think my response, Marg's and Katie Bug's Mama's were intended to demonstrate the fact that the lives of people who differ from us and the solutions to their problems are not as black and white as some may have it seem.

Indeed, the repulsive idea of bombing Arab nations (Egypt, Syria, Morrocco, Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, Jordan, Lebanon, Occupied Palestinian Territories, Yemen, Lybia, Sudan, UAE...) in order to "liberate" it's women represents some of the darkest, most dangerous and culturally imperialist thought of our time. It leads to nothing but hatred and war. It assumes that all or most Arab women are victims of Arab men, which casts Arab men in the light of being an archetype of hypermasculine evil. Something that has been going on in Western culture since Chaucer. It dehumanizes and degrades Arab men. Indeed it dehumanizes us all. Oppressive systems of government oppress ALL members of society. But you can not bomb a people into submitting to your own ideas of right or moral living. I would think that as gentle disciplining mothers, we would understand that. Indeed, it only creates anger and resentment. Women suffer more than anyone else during war. How can you uplift women by murdering their husband's, children, neighboors etc. Yet that is the only suggestion of "Activism" that is mentioned by the OP.

Mamid, I must admit that I find your friend's story of her travel in Turkey to be unusual and highly unlikely to be representative of the experiences of Turkish women. Turkey is a fiercely secular nation where women in Hijab are not even permitted to attend public university. A woman and her daughters ( if you look in the archives here on MDC there is a link to the story) actually faced the death penalty in Turkey after PEACEFULLY protesting their right to wear-hijab (veil) in Turkish public unversities. A democratically elected congresswoman in Turkey was thrown out of session because she entered the building in Hijab. Also, it is expected and supported in a lot of middle eastern countries (I know that Jordan is one of them) for a woman being harassed to LOUDLY fend off the molester and members of the public will often support her. If I can find it, I will send you a story that I recently read of a Jordanian woman who beat up (to the cheers of the crowd) a man who was making sexual advances toward her as she walked past. She was not arrested or scorned, she got a write-up in a local paper and lots of support.

You also mentioned that " Any country where there is the veil, women are in danger." Are you aware that there are veiled women in Canada? Two of them have run for public office http://www.itrathsyed.ca/ and http://www.moniamazigh.ca/home.html. These are two articulate, well-educated activist women who freely "veil" themselves because of their own beliefs. I sincerely hope that you do not mean to assert that they or I or Merprk or any other covering woman is imprisoned.

You say that a man slit his throat because he saw a woman unveiled? Did he have no sisters, a wife, a daughter? Women don't veil themselves in the house. Surely this couldn't have been the first time. Also many Iranian women (Iran was where the baha'i sect was founded no?) go unveiled today (though not in public they still don't adhere to Islamic rules of modesty). And of course the shah forcefully unveiled many Iranian women. Women go unveiled all over Arab and Muslim countries. Actually women who wear veils are in the minority. Saudi Arabia is the only country ON EARTH where women are required to cover their faces in public and one of only two or three countries where women are required to wear hijab. Indonesia, Malaysia, Morrocco, Egypt (where it is illegal for schoolgirls in face veils to attend public school), Algeria, Bahrain, Qatar, Pakistan and all other Muslim countries have no laws requiring religiously mandated dress for women.

I agree strongly that there are some serious cultural and legal barriers for women in many countries throughout the world, Arab countries being far from an exception. But women in these countries ARE struggling for their rights and they are making gains. Women in one of the gulf countries one the right to vote recently. It may seem backward and too slow for us, but WE are not the ones who have to live their and deal with the consequences of imposed changes. True change must come from the inside, from the grassroots. There is a great deal of agitation for change in Saudi Arabia. Arabian women themselves are doing this important work, often with the support of their men. Our first step is to understand what is really happening there and then we can be informed when we write letters, donate money etc. and be much greater advocates for change.

I am not posting here simply to defend the middle east nor am I participating to ATTACK this great expanse of land with millions of people and many different cultures. I want to demonstrate that you can not possibly comprehend the entire region based on one perspective. To attempt to do so is dangerous and unfair.


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## Katie Bugs Mama (Feb 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mahdokht*

I am not posting here simply to defend the middle east nor am I participating to ATTACK this great expanse of land with millions of people and many different cultures. I want to demonstrate that you can not possibly comprehend the entire region based on one perspective. To attempt to do so is dangerous and unfair.























WELL SAID!!!!


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

I have no doubt that there is some sensationalistic book over in the ME, full of horror stories about what some American women do and endure on a daily basis, and ppl in the ME are saying the same things there that you are saying here.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Those women aren't "veiled" in the same way that women in the middle east are. Sure, they have the head(hair) covering, but they aren't wearing the face covering.

Nor do they have to wear a veil here in Canada. They have the choice to. Or not to as they see fit.

In most middle eastern countries, they don't have the same freedom we as North American women take for granted. I can wear a head scarf if I wanted to and no one would think differently of me for doing so. Or even a full burqua if I so choose. But the point is, I have the choice here.

If I chose to sleep around, I won't be stoned to death, or put in the "woman's room," or have my children taken from me at the age of 7 because that's the law. And I can't simply be divorced by my husband saying "I divorce thee" three times.

If I commit a crime, I won't be thrown into jail until I confess my guilt. Nor will I be tortured either. I was in tears when I saw the feet of a refugee who was horribly scarred by torturers trying to get her to renouce her faith. They whip the feet so as not to scar the face.

If I have a girl, she won't have her genitals mutilated to keep her "clean" for some man to use his penis - or a knife if the mutilation was too severe - in order to have sex with her. Nor will she suffer in childbirth birthing through the scars of her mutilated genitals.

I have a choice here. I have a voice. The day to day events that goes on in Middle Eastern countries to women make domestic abuse in North America look like nothing more than bullying. No man may make a judgement about my life here in the way that they are made daily for women in the Middle East. Here, not my father, nor my brother, nor my husband, nor my son have the right to decide how I should live, what I should wear or if I should die for some sin I've committed. I don't need anyone's permission to travel, nor do I need to seek permission to do anything. Nor can I be forced to do something I don't want to do.

I don't have to put my religion in my passport either.

As I said before, the Middle East is not a safe place for a woman travelling unescorted.


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## MamaLuna (Feb 13, 2002)

True Marg, you made a good point. It is interesting to see things from the other side as well, and understandable too how they would view Western women when that is the only lifestyle they've experienced. The author makes this point too, that some Saudi women pity her for not having a man to protect and support her.


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## MamaLuna (Feb 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candiland*
I have no doubt that there is some sensationalistic book over in the ME, full of horror stories about what some American women do and endure on a daily basis, and ppl in the ME are saying the same things there that you are saying here.

Candiland,

I am curious to know what you and others mean by "sensationalistic"? Does that mean you don't believe the incidents described in it are actually happening?

Yes, I won't disagree that there are women here who also endure hardships, violence. I guess the difference is that there are still laws in place to protect and defend us. Furthermore, my guess is that few Saudi women would be allowed to read such a book, even if they were granted enough of an education to be able to read it...and this goes back to the whole point of my original post. Women there are not granted basic rights, freedom, or protection, and this is tragic.

I guess I was expecting more of you AP, activist mamas to agree with me on that point, but apparently this subject has struck another cord.

Mahdokht said "True change must come from the inside, from the grassroots."
I wholly agree with that, absolutely. Still, I feel like if there is something I can do to help, I will. It was a mistake for me to start the conversation off with the question of war and liberating women. I had just read somewhere else on the internet that the reading Princess trilogy would make anyone want to go to war. If that's what you mean by "sensationalistic", then I would agree. There was certainly and insinuation about that in the book. However, I personally do not agree with this logic, and yet it does not discount what I perceive to be happening to the women in SA.

And yes, Katie Bugs Mama, I will try to get ahold of the book, movie you suggested. I am interested to know more about what it is like to be a woman living in the Arab countries.

Thank you all for your input and opinions, it has been very educational.


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

I have no doubt that things like that happen.

However, as a previous poster mentioned, the majority of men and women love and respect their culture immensely. You can't let those that hate it overshadow the majority that want to keep it that way, ya know?


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

I hope I do not sound too shallow, but is Jeanne Sassoon the wife of Vidal...?

What is her background? Why would she write a book like this?


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## Marg of Arabia (Nov 19, 2001)

She has no relation to the hair guy....:LOL

Here is a link to her site....

http://www.jeansasson.com/


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

I was just wondering who she is and why she would have anything to say in the first place.

I do know that "Sasoon, Sassoon, Sazoon, et cetera," is a common Middle Eastern name.

Just trying for the obvious first.


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## Marg of Arabia (Nov 19, 2001)

Sorry, wasn't trying to insult. I hadn't ever heard of her either. I just think Vidal is so funny looking.....









Her site is kind of fun to poke around in....


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## Smilemomma (Nov 19, 2001)

Another interesting book is "My Forbidden Face", the story of an ordinary girl growing up in Afghanistan under the Taliban.

I didn't get from the book that she particulary loved her culture or the way women OR men were treated, how a boy downstairs was beaten to death in front of his mother for listening to the radio, and so many others.

Here's a bit of her preface:

"I hope it will serve as a key to other women, those whose words are locked away, those who have hidden what they have witnessed in their hearts and in their memories. I dedicate it to all the Afghan girls and women who have kept their dignity until their last breath. To all those, deprived of their rights in their own country, who live in darkness even after the dawn of the twenty-first century. To all those women executed in public before the eyes of their children and loved ones, without pity, or justice."


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## MamaLuna (Feb 13, 2002)

Thanks for the suggestion Smilemomma. Her preface really sums it up.

That was an interesting connection Applejuice, it hadn't occurred to me to wonder about the link between Vidal and Jean Sasoon.

As to why she wrote the book, she says at the end of the book that she lived in SA for many years and had gotten to know the Princess. The Princess approached her and asked her to write the book for her a number of times over a period of years. At first she didn't see the need for it, but as she got to know the Princess better and hear more of the stories then she agreed to write for her. The Princess's purpose in wanting the book written was to make people around the world aware of the situation and the need for change.


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