# WWYD in this carseat/booster situation?



## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

I'm fairly sure I've made up my mind but I wantted to post incase I had overlooked aonther option I had not thought of.

My daughter is 4.5 years old, about 42 pounds and about 43inches tall.

We have Britax Marathons for her in daddy's, grammy and my car...the 3 cars she is most often.

This year she will be attending afternoon preschool 4 days a week and the drop off time falls during nap time for my 2 year old.

I've worked out a carpool situation with a good friend. It involves me dropping my daughter off at her house 45 minutes before school starts and her taking both our kids to school. Friend lives 5 minutes from school.

I'm not going to uninstall and install the marathon every day, and leaving one in her car is not an option as she has 5 kids and no room for a seat to be left.

I have a high back booster I keep in my car for friends kids (I'm pretty much the only one whose kids are still in a 5 pt). My daughter has never used it, but she meets all the requirements.

My plan is to put that in my friends car when she takes her to school and have her ride in the Marathon at all other times. I'm not worried about her understanding the booster is only for friends car and why she rides in the marathon all other times.

Is there another option I'm overlooking or does this seem reasonable?


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## Katerz2u (Jul 14, 2006)

I dont understand, if your friend has 5 kids and no room for another installed seat, does that mean she has to remove an installed seat for the booster everyday? Will she always have all 5 kids in the car, or can your DD just use one of her seats?


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## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katerz2u* 
I dont understand, if your friend has 5 kids and no room for another installed seat, does that mean she has to remove an installed seat for the booster everyday? Will she always have all 5 kids in the car, or can your DD just use one of her seats?

3 or her 5 kids are in elementary school and don't use carseats or boosters anymore. They will be at school when she takes my daughter. Her two kids that are in seats will be with her.


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## Katerz2u (Jul 14, 2006)

Ah, I see. Well Im stumped, I cant think of any other option besides a booster. It's not "ideal" to have her in a booster..but I guess you have to do, what you have to do. I hope someone else has a better idea, GL!


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## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katerz2u* 
Ah, I see. Well Im stumped, I cant think of any other option besides a booster. It's not "ideal" to have her in a booster..but I guess you have to do, what you have to do. I hope someone else has a better idea, GL!

That's my feeling too, not ideal but in my mind better than the alternative, which is having my sons nap cut from 3 hours to an hour and a half.

We live 15 minutes from the school so by dropping her off at my friends house it allows me to be home and have him down for nap by 12:15. He can sleep till 2:50 when I will need to wake him up to go get her. I will be bringing my frineds daughter home from school.

This allows each of our kids to get a longer nap and for her be there when her older kids get home from school.

Since she lives only 5 minutes from school it means my daughter will be in the booster only 15 minutes a week. It's a co-op preschool and I wouk in the classroom once a week so I will drive her those days.

Not ideal, but since she is the legal size for the booster it is within my comfort level for this ammount of time.

Unless of course there is a really easy and quick 5 point seat I can install in 2 minutes like a booster!


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## Eris (Sep 11, 2002)

I think a booster seat is the most sensible, and probably the _safest_ solution in this situation- installing and reinstalling a car seat each day/several times in a day gives a lot of opportunity for errors in installation. A booster seat used correctly is safer than a harnessed car seat used incorrectly. A 4.5 year old of your DDs size is very likely ready to use a booster seat correctly for short trips (it's not hard to remember not to move around much for five minutes, even for a 4.5 year old







).

I would not feel any twinges of guilt for this plan at all.

(FWIW, my DD1, who will be six in November, rides in a Britax Wizard in my van, but has used a high back booster in DHs car for at least a year and a half, and in her grandmother's car for the past six months. She did request that we bring her Wizard with us the last time we went on a trip to my parents' house, rather than using the Parkway they had bought, because she found it nervewracking to have to remember to sit right on some of the longer drives we take while we're there).


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

I don't see a problem with that plan, as long as you think she can sit maturely in the booster. Make sure your friend 'locks' the seatbelt


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

I'd just check and make sure the booster you have is a "good" booster, meaning it puts the lap belt portion along her thighs and not her stomach, etc. A good fit is really what is important in a booster.


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## lawgrrl (Nov 8, 2004)

How about a SafeGuard Go Booster? It is extremely lightweight, very easy to install and your DD would still be in a 5-point harness. The only caveat is that your friend's vehicle must be LATCH compatible, since the Go Booster absolutely requires a top tether.

http://www.safeguardseat.com/go/index.htm


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## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99* 
I'd just check and make sure the booster you have is a "good" booster, meaning it puts the lap belt portion along her thighs and not her stomach, etc. A good fit is really what is important in a booster.

This is the seat I have: http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...sin=B000F8HIE8


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

Turbo boosters are prettty well known for having a good fit/belt path, so it is almost certainly okay. Again, you just want to make sure the belt is going over her hips, NOT the stomach. You want the nice strong pelvis/hips to take the force of a crash, NOT the soft squishy internal organs located in the stomach area.


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## angie3096 (Apr 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lawgrrl* 
How about a SafeGuard Go Booster? It is extremely lightweight, very easy to install and your DD would still be in a 5-point harness. The only caveat is that your friend's vehicle must be LATCH compatible, since the Go Booster absolutely requires a top tether.

http://www.safeguardseat.com/go/index.htm

Is it really easy to install? Several techs have told me the opposite...the Safeguard Child Seat installs VERY easily, but the Go...I've heard bad things.







:


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## soygurl (Jan 28, 2006)

Honestly, I don't see the problem with her being in a booster for 15 min a week.
I've heard compelling arguments that correctly used boosters may in fact be MORE safe than correctly used 5 pt. for older children.
Now, I'm not trying to talk anyone out of extended harnessing! Still, I definitely wouldn't worry about a healthy child, over 4 years, and over 40 lbs. in booster for a very short amount of time each week. If your DD was younger, lighter, had physical issues that warranted more protection, or developmentally unable to stay properly seated in a booster for a 5 minute drive I would feel differently. In this case however, I see no reason to spend an extra $200 and all the extra hassle of installing and uninstalling the GO three times a week.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

I woud be okay with a child that age in a booster for a very limited amount of time provided that the seatbelt fit properly on her body- across the hips/thighs and collarbone, not belly and neck. AND provided that she can sit appropriately in the booster every single time. I would prefer to use a booster with SIP- like a Britax Monarch or Parkway, Compass, or a Recaro booster, though unless the vehicle is equipped w/side curtain airbags.


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## Katerz2u (Jul 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soygurl* 
...I've heard compelling arguments that correctly used boosters may in fact be MORE safe than correctly used 5 pt. for older children...

Do you have any articles about this? I don't understand how a 3 point booster could be safer then a 5 point child restraint. I've seen booster vs 5 point crash tests and its terrifying how the dummies are thrown about and whiplashed in the booster. A 5 point restraint distributes the crash force evenly over a child's body where as a 3 point booster puts the the pressure on the hips/thighs and 1 shoulder. In my opinion a booster isnt even AS safe as a 5 point, let alone SAFER.


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## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

We tested out the booster last night in our car as I wanted to teach her how to sit correctly, not lean forward, move the seat belt etc.

She did just fine and fits well in it.

We also talked about only using it in special cases and that she would still use her regular seat in our cars. She has noticed that all of her friends are in boosters and calls hers a "baby seat" but other than a breif moment of complaint she has no problem with it. I've showed her that her seat says it is good till 65 pounds and that certainly is not a baby!

After seeing her in the booster I feel comfortable with her using it for this breif ammount of time.

Someone mentioned side airbags and I;m not sure if my friends car has them. She drives a pretty recent Toyota Hilander.


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## soygurl (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katerz2u* 
Do you have any articles about this? I don't understand how a 3 point booster could be safer then a 5 point child restraint. I've seen booster vs 5 point crash tests and its terrifying how the dummies are thrown about and whiplashed in the booster. A 5 point restraint distributes the crash force evenly over a child's body where as a 3 point booster puts the the pressure on the hips/thighs and 1 shoulder. In my opinion a booster isnt even AS safe as a 5 point, let alone SAFER.

Unfortunately, I don't have any articles because the argument I've heard comes from why car seat standards are the way they are in Sweden. I'm no expert, just someone who has done a TON of research so please _don't_ think I'm trying to tell everyone to put they're children in boosters! I'm still undecided as to how I feel about the argument; however, I do thing it makes sense in some ways.
But here's the argument as I've heard it:
In Sweden, children RF until about 55 lbs. Usually until they are between 4 and 6 years old. Then they move directly to a BPB using the vehicle's 3 pt. belt. This is supposedly because in studies done in Sweden they have found that the additional movement allowed by the 3 pt. belt lets the child's head move _with_ the body, putting less stress on the neck. In a FF 5 pt. harness crash forces _are_ more evenly distributed, but the body is held back very firmly, while there is nothing to hold the head back besides the child's neck. Race car drivers with 5 pt. harnesses also have a tether connected to their helmet so their head is restrained as well. Children in a FF 5 pt. harness car seat don't have anything like that. Therefore, while there _is_ undoubtedly more movement in a BPB, the idea is that by having the body move more, the child's head will ultimately move less in relationship to the rest of the child's body.
Given Sweden's extremely low rate of child death and injury in car accidents, I'm inclined to believe in their safety standards. Of course, because they have the ability to rear face children for so much longer than we do, I DO completely believe in the importance of a 5 pt. harness until a child is old enough to fit correctly and stay properly seated in a BPB. This argument is only meant for older children.
Also, crash dynamics change a lot in different types of collisions, and I fully believe that in a roll-over nothing could beat the safety of a 5 pt. harness. Once again though, I'm not an expert. Just passing along what I've heard, and why it makes sense (in some ways) _to me._


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## Katerz2u (Jul 14, 2006)

Yes, that DOES make sense. However, if your child is ejected from their seat and hits into the front seat or the window they are probably going to be MORE injured. I think Sweden's low rates are because of the extended RFing too, wish that was more of the norm here.


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

Total ignoramus here.

Please tell me how children in Sweden can be rear-facing at six years old. How is that even possible? Our dc have had trouble rear-facing even up to the required time because they are so tall and their legs start to lift off the carseat just as they reach the early required age/height/weight. Where do Swedish children's feet go??? Do they sit cross-legged?

I had never read the study, but had wondered about the whole 'body's tight, head's loose' potential problem as well.

I need to read more about this stuff. I know we've conformed to regulations, but it is clear from what little I've read on this forum that I have not been adequately informed! Thanks for sharing!


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## Katerz2u (Jul 14, 2006)

Sweden has different seats then us. First of all the harnesses on them are able to hold a higher rear facing weight and second their seats hang over the edge of the seat leaving a little gap between the child restraint and the back of the seat they are installed in. They also have a "leg" that comes off the bottom of the child restraint that braces on the floor of the vehicle for stability.

A child in the US (and I think Cananda) can still rear face even if their legs are touching the seat back, most just sit cross legged, with legs to the side over the sides of the restraint or with legs just up onto the seat. Its not uncomfortable for most kids and it is perfectly safe.


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## Pam_and_Abigail (Dec 2, 2002)

soygurl, that is really interesting.

My dd is the same height and weight as the OP, but we don't have any situation where we require her to be in a booster right now, but she has been asking about it. Canada recently increased their upper weight limit for being harnessed, so I was prepared to keep her there for years to come, but dh doesn't want to.

She's not great at sitting still though, and sometimes when we drive, she threatens to undo her harness. She also will get in the car and unbuckle her sister's seat so that it is onloy held by its top tether (we don't have latch), so I don't feel that she understands care safety enough for the resonsibility of a booster. She's almost five.


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## skaterbabs (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
I don't see a problem with that plan, as long as you think she can sit maturely in the booster. Make sure your friend 'locks' the seatbelt










Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99* 
I'd just check and make sure the booster you have is a "good" booster, meaning it puts the lap belt portion along her thighs and not her stomach, etc. A good fit is really what is important in a booster.
***************************
Turbo boosters are prettty well known for having a good fit/belt path, so it is almost certainly okay. Again, you just want to make sure the belt is going over her hips, NOT the stomach. You want the nice strong pelvis/hips to take the force of a crash, NOT the soft squishy internal organs located in the stomach area.










ITA. As long as she can sit perfectly all the time while in the booster, she meets the minimums.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pam_and_Abigail* 
She's not great at sitting still though, and sometimes when we drive, she threatens to undo her harness. She also will get in the car and unbuckle her sister's seat so that it is onloy held by its top tether (we don't have latch), so I don't feel that she understands care safety enough for the resonsibility of a booster. She's almost five.

Yes, that's a clear indication that a booster would not be a safe choice for her.


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

My son is 4.5, 40 lbs. and 43" and he rides in a high-backed booster on occasion-- in his grandma's car when we visit Kentucky (so every couple months, maybe 2-3 car rides).
If your friend has automatic locking seatbelts and headrests, the Cosco Apex installs in about a minute and harnesses to 65 lbs. If it needs a locking clip, it'd take much longer.


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## angie3096 (Apr 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreggieUBA2C* 
Total ignoramus here.

Please tell me how children in Sweden can be rear-facing at six years old. How is that even possible? Our dc have had trouble rear-facing even up to the required time because they are so tall and their legs start to lift off the carseat just as they reach the early required age/height/weight. Where do Swedish children's feet go??? Do they sit cross-legged?


In Sweden they have seats that rearface to 50 or 55 pounds. Our seats only rearface to 30-35 pounds. But still, that can get kids rearfacing to about age 3, in many cases. Some can RF until 4 or even 5, if they are very petite. As to the question of where their feet go, yes, they can sit cross legged if they want to! Or frog legged. However they want. My dd rearfaced until she was 38 months; she was partial to the frog pose. She never complained about her legs being uncomfortable.

Here is a video that has some good shots of older kids rearfacing, so you can get an idea of how it works (and it also has crash test footage of rearfacing vs. forward facing, so you can see WHY it's so important)





Here is a photo album page of older kids rearfacing that also might help:
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbumAll.aspx

And another page with great info to read about rearfacing:
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/StayRearFacing.aspx

HTH!


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## Papooses (Dec 20, 2006)

Carpooling resources are in my website, link in signature > "Safety Seat Basics" ... scroll down









The "Album: Rear Facing" page also has a few 5 year olds riding RF here in the U.S.


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## soygurl (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katerz2u* 
Yes, that DOES make sense. However, if your child is ejected from their seat and hits into the front seat or the window they are probably going to be MORE injured. I think Sweden's low rates are because of the extended RFing too, wish that was more of the norm here.

ITA about the ejection issue which is why I'd only argue for the _possible_ safety benefits of a BPB over FF harness if the booster use was perfect (age, weight, height, fit of booster, and maturity). Also, I'm sure Sweden's safety record is due mostly to extended RFing, but I can't help but thing that if they're so concerned with CPSafety to RF kids so long, it's unlikely that they'd totally through caution to the wind once kids are to big to RF, KWIM? Of course, without being able to see studies, it's ya can't really know for sure... sometimes it all makes me kinda







:


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## Papooses (Dec 20, 2006)

From my website -- link in signature -- with crash test comparisons, etc....

Quote:

_A booster is only safer than a harness if the harness cannot be used correctly and then only if the booster will be used correctly._

*Advantages to Extended Harnessing:*
Limits head excursion (forward movement) during a crash
Spreads crash forces out over a broader area of the body at all of its strongest points
Keeps kids properly positioned much more reliably
Helps prevent backseat bickering between siblings (thus reducing driver distraction)

IS YOUR CHILD READY FOR A BOOSTER?

Does your child meet the weight, height and age requirements?
Can your child remain properly positioned for the entire length of every ride, never leaning out of the shoulder belt?
Will your child leave the seatbelt properly positioned flat across the collar bone and hips/thighs?
If you're not sure about your child's maturity abilities and/or your child still fits a harness, then keep him or her in the harness.


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