# Rear Facing "law"



## sweetkid (Feb 5, 2008)

Where is the law Rear facing until 2?? I just read a post that said that???
Also can someone point me toward the reasoning behind rearfacing past 1? My son is going to be 1 in a few weeks and I can't WAIT to turn him around! He SCREAMS his head off in the car and I really think he gets car sick feeling and turning will change that feeling. He is very large (24 pounds) and strong.I would keep him RFing if it made sense,but I really don't get it. I'm not trying to be snarky really, I just want to do what is right and comfortable for him. We drive a very safe car (2008 Subaru outback) but we do drive a good bit on all types of roads and trips, its really hard to plan around his naps and eating and minimizing the screamfest!


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## Spirit Dancer (Dec 11, 2006)

No, it is not the law to have to keep your 1 year old rear facing. You could legally turn your baby around to forward facing if you wanted.\
It is safer to rear face till 2 though.


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## seagull (Jun 29, 2005)

Not officially a law but the Amer. Acad. Pediatrics now says to rear face until the seat is outgrown by height or weight or at least age 2. Not that I agree with their position on other topics, but it is good to see extended rear facing recommendations.


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## illumini (Dec 2, 2006)

This is why we will do Extended Rear Facing. This is a story from Joel's Grandfather. http://www.joelsjourney.org/


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## woodchick (Jan 5, 2007)

Is he in an infant seat or a convertable? Many moms find that their kids do better in the convertable (even rear facing!)


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *woodchick* 
Is he in an infant seat or a convertable? Many moms find that their kids do better in the convertable (even rear facing!)

My son was a screamer too...and then we tilted his seat up a bit. (I had never thought about it and did it at a year) Now he'll sit much longer and just watch out of the window.


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

It is 5x safer for a child under 2 to rearface, that is the logic behind it. A convertible, a more upright install, etc, often make RF more tolerable for older babies. My 26month old was a horrid carseat screamer but now loves the car, she just needed to grow out of it (which she did in phases, ending at about 15-16months). She is still Rearfacing, and will be until at least 35lbs. Hopefully 40lbs, since we'll need new seats for the twins and can do some juggling to make it happen. She's just shy of 30lbs now and over 36" tall.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Just to clarify (for those with smaller babies) a lot of states have "proper use" clauses. So if your seat (like many Dorel seats) has a minimum of 22lbs AND 34" to forward face, you cannot legally turn your child ffing in that seat.

OP - what seat is your child in and what vehicle? Maybe we can help you keep him happy rfing.


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## thtr4me (Apr 24, 2009)

My son was miserable RFing in his infant seat when we switched cars from a sedan to wagon. As soon as we moved him to a convertible and an outbound position, he was happy as a clam, and stayed RFing until he was 3.


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## sweetkid (Feb 5, 2008)

We have a Britax Marathon and a 2008 Subaru Outback. DD is almost 4 and has the same seat and we have to put them each behind a passenger or drivers seat because there is not room for one in the middle. We have a 2005 prius but he hasn't been in that too much, we just have a marathon in that ff for DD, his seat does fit in the middle in that car, that REALLY gets him going though!!!


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## harli (Mar 17, 2010)

OP I understand where you are coming from. I knew rear facing was safer (and kept my kids rear facing because of it) but I didn't really *get it* until I saw what happens to a rear facing kid in a wreck vs. what happens to a forward facing kid in a wreck. Even though I knew it was safer I was shocked when I saw these videos of crash dummy tests.

Rear facing





forward facing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMFPS...eature=related

hope that helps


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## WC_hapamama (Sep 19, 2005)

I'm going to echo something that someone else has mentioned... try putting the rearfacing seat in a more upright position.

I didn't "get" the extended rear-facing thing until I saw the crash test videos either... Now I believe it, and my youngest (now almost 8 months old) will rear-face until he's at least 2 years old.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Just to clarify, you cannot forward-face a child under the age of one AND 20 pounds (for Dorel seats it's one year AND 22 pounds AND 34 inches, and the First Years seats have a 23 lb minimum for FF as well). Legally, you can turn them around after that point, but it's much safer to continue to RF until they physically cannot anymore (reach the maximum weight and/or height limit of the seat). In a RF seat, the baby's head, neck and spine are supported in a crash and the seat absorbs the crash forces; in a FF seat, the child's torso is restrained while the crash forces are transferred onto the child's neck and spine. Childrens' spinal colums do not ossify until between 4 and 6 years of age, and any amount of stretching of the spinal cord could have disastrous effects, including paralysis and death. It doesn't matter now big/tall/heavy/sturdy the one year old is; they all have the same level of spinal development and are all equally sensitive to stretching.


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## kalamos23 (Apr 11, 2008)

If anything, I would think that a heavier kid would have MORE G-forces placed upon his spine due to the heavier weight of his head/body so it wouold make even more sense to keep them RFing. Although, I wouldn't consider a 24 lb 1 year old large - DD was 24 lbs at 6m.


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## sweetkid (Feb 5, 2008)

Okay you are scoring a convert!! Can I try and put the seat in the upright positon now? and rf? Or should I wait until he's 1?

those videos are really scary, i feel bad for turning my 4 year old at 1 now.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetkid* 
Okay you are scoring a convert!! Can I try and put the seat in the upright positon now? and rf? Or should I wait until he's 1?

those videos are really scary, i feel bad for turning my 4 year old at 1 now.

Mine is still a bit tilted...but not as far as the lines on the side say. As long as he has really good head control it's probably fine.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetkid* 
Okay you are scoring a convert!! Can I try and put the seat in the upright positon now? and rf? Or should I wait until he's 1?

those videos are really scary, i feel bad for turning my 4 year old at 1 now.

At nearly one he'd be fine more upright. Your seat can be as upright ast 30*, unless you have a true fit, then it can only be as upright as 35*.


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## northcountrymamma (Feb 24, 2006)

I've been wondering a lot about this too with a new LO on the way...
but here's my question, due to physics, wouldn't those crash videos be different for a rear impact versus a head on collision? How would it vary for the FF seat if the impact was head on i wonder?

I can see for sure why the RF seat makes more sense in the case of those videos but is there info out there for all types of collisions? I've googled this with no luck.

TIA!


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *northcountrymamma* 
I've been wondering a lot about this too with a new LO on the way...
but here's my question, due to physics, wouldn't those crash videos be different for a rear impact versus a head on collision? How would it vary for the FF seat if the impact was head on i wonder?

I can see for sure why the RF seat makes more sense in the case of those videos but is there info out there for all types of collisions? I've googled this with no luck.

TIA!

Rear end collissions are a lot less deadly than head ons. With a rear end collission, it tends to be low speed or there is very little difference in speed. A head on collission you have two cars traveling towards each other. The forces are WAY different.


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## surrogate (Oct 10, 2009)

here is a story and pictures of a mom who was rear ended at high speeds.

http://myangelsaliandpeanut.tripod.com/id5.html


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## starling&diesel (Nov 24, 2007)

As a paramedic, I am always sharing the facts about extended rear-facing kids with patients and anyone else who will listen. I tell them that if their kid screams for an hour, that is far better than if they're dead. Blunt, but the truth. It's the same when I have an injured infant and the mom wants to hold the child in her arms while we go to the hospital because the babe is unconsolable ... this often sways the other paramedic, but I always insist on buckling babe into the carseat or peds restraint that we carry. Again, I say, "A screaming baby is a healthy baby ... we worry when they're quiet."

Rear-facing is best!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

The vast majority of crashes are frontal crashes (because if you think about it, a rear-end or side crash involves the front of the other person's car) and frontal, side, and roll-over crashes are by far deadlier than rear-impact crashes. Rear-impact crashes are generally much more low-speed (ie usually the person being hit is stopped, so the crash only involves the speed of the one car that's hitting, which is also usually braking). Crashes in which both cars are moving have much more force, and thus much higher rates of injuries. In frontal, side, rollover and offset crashes, RF offers the most protection. Even in a rear-end crash, the child's head, neck and spine are supported by the car seat during both the movement toward the point of impact and during ride-down.

Completely anecdotal, but we were rear-ended back in March '06, when my DD1 was 9 months old and rear-facing. We were stopped at a light and were hit by a Volvo going about 45, who didn't break at all before hitting us. DD slept through the crash, and DH and I both suffered from whiplash and had lots of chiropractor visits.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *surrogate* 
here is a story and pictures of a mom who was rear ended at high speeds.

http://myangelsaliandpeanut.tripod.com/id5.html

That's a great story showing that rfing is safe when rear ended. But, hit while the car is stopped by another car going 65mph is still less force then one would experience if one car going 40mph hits another car head on going 40mph.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
That's a great story showing that rfing is safe when rear ended. But, hit while the car is stopped by another car going 65mph is still less force then one would experience if one car going 40mph hits another car head on going 40mph.

Didn't she post that in response to a question about accidents when rearended? Since the first crash test videos were for a head-on collision?


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## surrogate (Oct 10, 2009)

i did sapphine chan


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## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

The advice from AAP is unfortunately misleading and vague which causes lots of problems since parents believe they must turn children forward at that point. Previously it was 12 months/20 lbs, a statement which is causing many problems today since it's so misunderstood.

Rear facing is 500% safer than forward facing, you can learn more about all the facts and details here. You will find stories, data, photos and videos. The safety benefits are huge after age 2 as well, it's just that there is little research available after age 2 since no countries except the Swedes rear face that long. Most in US turn kids forward right after the first year.

Swedes keep kids RF until age four and have basically zero fatalities in age 0-6 years each year largely thanks to this.

As other posters mentioned, try to install your seat more upright. As kids grow older they like to sit more upright and see what's going on outside.

Regarding collisions from the rear, these area low percentage and also rarely severe due to many factors. Another high speed crash from behind with photos and a happy ending can be found here.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Actually, the AAP has recommended RF to the limits of the seat (to age 4) since 1999. Recently they released the public statement about 2 & 20 and it's getting alot of publicity, but they still recommend ERF to the limits.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

Well, I wish they'd advocate for ERFing to the limit a little more effectively. Maybe with a catchy slogan or something.


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## ThisCat (Jun 19, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Actually, the AAP has recommended RF to the limits of the seat (to age 4) since 1999. Recently they released the public statement about 2 & 20 and it's getting alot of publicity, but they still recommend ERF to the limits.

I'm looking back at my AAP baby book I got when I was pregnant with my first, and while it is in there, it's a rather anemic and slightly vague recommendation IMO, and there's no mention of "age 4." The biggest problem I think is that they don't say _why_ to do it, no mention that it's better or safer, and it's like one sentence that comes _after_ the bit about at least one year/20lbs. I'm a pretty safety conscious person and was pretty by the book when my first was a baby, and I didn't catch on. I'm not making excuses for myself, but I just think it's completely understandable why the general public never really noticed the recommendation.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

That's not their "official recommendation."







They certainly advocated to ERF to the limits & to age 4 in their academic journals. But of course, the only ones who knew about that were those who had/have access to the journal, so obviously it didn't catch on with anyone other than techs and (very few) pediatricians.


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## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

Quote:

I'm not making excuses for myself, but I just think it's completely understandable why the general public never really noticed of the recommendation.

Grat point. The way AAP recommend ERF and the wording used is very weak. Most parents who read the recommendation believe the safety difference between RF and FF is irrelevant when it's in reality huge.

Saying RF until 2/20 is less terrible than 1/20 but still make parents terribly confused. RF to limit of the seat is of course a great ide but the way this is communicated make it seem irrelevant for safety.

The problem AAP and many other in US have is not pleasant. This often comes up in safety discussions with a wider perspective. How can AAP, NHTSA and other organizations change the wording without making parents angry and be hit with a huge amount of class action law suits? Not an easy task For many years the 1/20 has been in effect with research showing it being at least 30 years behind reality.

It's difficult, even for car seat companies, to even discuss safety options in US due to possible lawsuits. It's a problem which has greatly affected car seat safety negatively for many years.


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## mouso (Feb 8, 2007)

OP, I hear you!
My DS just turned one and is still rear-facing. My Dd was ERF but I am having a really hard time sticking to it with him. He has been in a convertible since 4 months, changed his angle, has every mirror and toy known to man, etc.
He screams and screams and sometimes stops breathing and passes out. It's great fun.
We are big day trip people and like to go places that are 1-2 hours away (the woods, the coast, etc) and have spent this past year going almost nowhere because it is so terrible. I try to minimize grocery shopping, etc.
For his birthday we went nowhere- we figured he would like that best.









Anyway, I have seen all the videos, know all the stats, even ERF'd my first- happily! But man, is it ever hard to keep him RF. Only my guilt is keeping him facing backwards for now.
I am taking it one day at a time. Every day is another day past one that he is RF. If it doesn't improve I doubt we will make it until 2, though.








Hang in there, I hope he gets better soon!


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Could he be getting carsick? I read somewhere that you can try having your LO look out the side window and that gives the inner ear better feedback on the motion of travel vs. the back window.


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## mouso (Feb 8, 2007)

My aforementioned DS (not sure if you were asking me, Sapphire) can only see out the side window. We have a minivan and he can see out of the side. Still pissed. He just HATES it.
He may be carsick, yes, but I have no idea what to do about it. Or how to tell.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mouso* 
My aforementioned DS (not sure if you were asking me, Sapphire) can only see out the side window. We have a minivan and he can see out of the side. Still pissed. He just HATES it.
He may be carsick, yes, but I have no idea what to do about it. Or how to tell.

Darn. That was just the only common cause of being mad in the car seat that you hadn't already addressed.

Don't suppose you've got an older, more verbal, child available, like a friend's kid, who could try sitting in the seat and check that it isn't actually poking your ds with a needle while making fun of his favorite shoes?


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## mouso (Feb 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Darn. That was just the only common cause of being mad in the car seat that you hadn't already addressed.

Don't suppose you've got an older, more verbal, child available, like a friend's kid, who could try sitting in the seat and check that it isn't actually poking your ds with a needle while making fun of his favorite shoes?











Yeah, maybe it's that evil seat. I do have a very verbal 3.5 y.o. who can sometimes make him laugh, and sometimes makes it worse. Depends on the day.


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## lyra2007 (Mar 17, 2010)

And besides, for every car that's rear-ended, the other one has a frontal crash. And in a chain collision--both!


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mouso* 
OP, I hear you!
My DS just turned one and is still rear-facing. My Dd was ERF but I am having a really hard time sticking to it with him. He has been in a convertible since 4 months, changed his angle, has every mirror and toy known to man, etc.
He screams and screams and sometimes stops breathing and passes out. It's great fun.
We are big day trip people and like to go places that are 1-2 hours away (the woods, the coast, etc) and have spent this past year going almost nowhere because it is so terrible. I try to minimize grocery shopping, etc.
For his birthday we went nowhere- we figured he would like that best.









Anyway, I have seen all the videos, know all the stats, even ERF'd my first- happily! But man, is it ever hard to keep him RF. Only my guilt is keeping him facing backwards for now.
I am taking it one day at a time. Every day is another day past one that he is RF. If it doesn't improve I doubt we will make it until 2, though.








Hang in there, I hope he gets better soon!

Sometimes stops breathing and passes out?? Sometimes I think common sense has to win out which in this situation (to me) would indicate that you should try turning him forward facing and see if it helps. It sounds to me that the danger of him being rear facing is higher than the possibility that you may get in a wreck in the next year. One of my children would scream until she vomitted and then choke on the vomit. I turned her forward facing at 11 months and I would do it again in a heartbeat. The chance that she would aspirate on her vomit was higher than other risks. Sometimes you have to do what is best in a particular situation even if others don't agree.


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## MammaG (Apr 9, 2009)

What converted me was finding the term "internal decapitation" on a car-seat safety website.

I was soooo angry that I didn't know about ERF until my second child (and he was two years old...we bought a new seat and RF'd him until just over the age of three). It's really a terrible thing that a Mama has to go looking for the information about ERF and extended-harnessing. That ought to be one of the FIRST things a pedi informs new parents about.

OP, glad you managed to get the message in time to keep your LO as safe as possible.


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