# Correcting a Stranger's Parenting Tactics?



## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Has anyone felt compelled to offer advice to a stranger?

I was at DD's soccer game and there was a couple there whose son is on dd's team, but who also has a 2-3 year old dd who comes to watch the game with mom and dad. Dad is assistant coach so he is off on the sidelines, and I talk casually to mom and her dd (who happens to look a lot like mine with bright blonde hair







) Anyway hers is usually quite well behaved but I think she was getting bored at this game. For some reason she hit mom and was whining, etc. Mom then proceeded to use many tactics that I myself have found ineffective, including:

"Apologize to me right now!"
"No, go sit in your own chair I don't want you on my lap anymore"
"If you don't apologize you can't go to the cider mill after the game with us"
"If you don't stop yelling I'm taking you to the car!"
"If you don't apologize right now I'm telling your dad!" (what?!)








Meanwhile the child was begging her mom to let her say something....but mom said "Be quiet right now, no I don't want to hear what you have to say"
"I am going to count to three...."
and so on for like 15 minutes, and I could tell that mom was getting embarrassed and just wanted the girl to please SHUTUP! as if she was on the brink of screaming at her, and the whole time I just wanted to offer a polite and sincere suggestion SOOOOOO badly, because I have used these lines before and have since found ways that work better for us. But that would be totally inappropriate right, since unsolicited advice is never welcome, is it? It was torture having to listen to this!
So the dd gets mom to calm down enough (







) and says "Mommy, please can I say something?" which she had been trying to do the whole time and mom says "WHAT?" "Sorry mama" and the mom had the nerve to say.... "sorry for what....?" I think this mom could have benefitted from some advice from someone (but I didn't have the guts to give it). Just to show her that there are ways to deal without using empty threats.









How does it make you feel when you see something like this go down right next to you? Have you ever considered offering advice and why? Are these better questions to discuss? Does my intention for posting this seem more clear now? Thanks girls


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## mama_b (Dec 14, 2004)

Not a good idea. I'm sure you would be offended if the tables were turned and she tried to tell you your way was all wrong and to do things her way. JMO.


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## Bethla (May 29, 2004)

I have never taken any suggestions from people and I imagine most others don't either.


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## Mamma Mia (Aug 3, 2005)

I wouldn't try to give her advice. I'm sure we all know how offensive that can be. It's her right to make her own mistakes. If she ever asks you for advice you could tell her, "What we do is this: ___" but otherwise you just have to suck it up and MYOB.


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Yeah I know I would never give advice without being asked, but you know what I'm saying.....


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bethla*
I have never taken any suggestions from people and I imagine most others don't either.


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## UmmBnB (Mar 28, 2005)

Quote:

Mom then proceeded to do everything wrong in the book:
Wrong in _your_ book.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I can think of worse things that some parents might do. And I wouldn't doubt if she was extra strict out of paranoia that people would be judging her for being too lax with a whiney kid.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Welllll. I intervene all the time. Drives my poor dh crazy as he just wants to hide. But especially when I see children verbally, emotionally or physically assaulted and from what you described this fits almost all three, imnsho.

I usually diplomatically and with great finesse *empathize* with the parent and suggest a couple of books to "make their life easier". EVERY time, the parent has ended up Thanking me!

I say something along the lines of 'Oh, I see you have a spirited (active, strong minded) daughter, like I do. My friend gave me a couple of books that made my life so much easier. Here are the names of them. Gosh, I don't know what I would have done without them; it can be so frustrating sometimes. I have seen them at the library even.' And I give them a little paper with these two book titles written down:

Kids, Parents and Power Struggles
Raising Your Spirited Child

Btw, they are both empathetic to the child's pov and if any parent reads anything out of either, it is nearly impossible not to be moved to change the dynamic to cooperation and respectful, reflective listening and compassionate problem solving. I highly recommend both.

If I were to witness a child being hit, I would just empatically say "STOP! How can I help, you seem so upset, what can I do to help?" And do the book spiel above. Unless, it appeared to be abuse, then I would call 911 and collect all identifying information possible (car license, make) to provide to the police. I am passionately willing to intervene, because I was that child.

HTH, Pat


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## shanagirl (Oct 24, 2005)

I have had similar moments observing awful behavior from a parent where I've been tempted to say something, and then I have caught myself on the other side where I have said something impulsively to my daughter that has been overheard and it's not the way I normally act and I'm mortified at what came out of my mouth in anger and frustration. At those moments I would not appreciate any kind of suggestions from a stranger because I'm struggling with my own demons and they don't know me from Adam.

But I do have family members (dh's family) who regularly talk in belittling ways to their children, and in those situations when I know it's the norm for them, I find ways to interact positively with the children, away from their parents.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I don't intervene really. I'd be offended if someone stepped in and said "Maam you shouldn't let your kids go outside in the rain without a coat." or etc so I try to think about the shoe being on the other foot and such. I might try to be a positive example though.







I understand how frustrating it can be to witness people being hurtful and demeaning to their children.


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Yes I agree with everyone, it is hard to tell if the parent is just having an "off" day - which I have had of course - or interacts with the child this way all the time. I am probably not going to see this parent again as it was the last game of the season, and also this is the first time I saw an interaction like this between the mom and daughter so that's probably why I was so shocked.

I wasn't going to confront them. If I was, I would have then. I was just asking everyone if they have ever been in this situation. I know that she is a competent mom. I just felt like _running away_ because I had to listen to her struggling with her child. I was so frustrated because I know that I have been in her shoes and I feel like if it had been appropriate to suggest a different approach she would may have benefited.

As in- when one of us is in public and we avert a tantrum by using a GD tactic and a complete stranger compliments us on being so tactful. I know that if someone came up to me and commented on how horrific my parenting skills were I would probably do some WWF Smackdown or something. I was just suprised that this mom used all (not one but basically all) of the lines that never seem work. BTW *UmmBnB* You're right, I was being presumptuous. sorry, I just meant that the phrases she used were a little typical of a parent that was at a loss of what to do. Trust me, I have been in her shoes. I have used all those lines bafore I am sure, but not all at once! I just coudn't believe it!


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## Monda (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Welllll. I intervene all the time. Drives my poor dh crazy as he just wants to hide. But especially when I see children verbally, emotionally or physically assaulted and from what you described this fits almost all three, imnsho.

I usually diplomatically and with great finesse *empathize* with the parent and suggest a couple of books to "make their life easier". EVERY time, the parent has ended up Thanking me!

I say something along the lines of 'Oh, I see you have a spirited (active, strong minded) daughter, like I do. My friend gave me a couple of books that made my life so much easier. Here are the names of them. Gosh, I don't know what I would have done without them; it can be so frustrating sometimes. I have seen them at the library even.' And I give them a little paper with these two book titles written down:

Kids, Parents and Power Struggles
Raising Your Spirited Child



It sounds like you try to be kind about it... but I think most people would see this as candy coated buttinskiness,

I would be offended no matter how you said it. It is just not the place of a stranger. Heck, half the time I don't want that kind of info even from my inlaws unless I ask.


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## loverlaydown (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunRayeMomi*
I was at DD's soccer game yesterday and there was a couple there whose son is on dd's team, but who also has a 2-3 year old dd who comes to watch the game with mom and dad. Dad is assistant coach so he is off on the sidelines, and I talk casually to mom and her dd (who happens to look a lot like mine with bright blonde hair







) Anyway hers is usually quite well behaved but I think she was getting bored at this game. For some reason she hit mom and was whining, etc. Mom then proceeded to do _everything_ wrong in the book:

"Apologize to me right now!"
"No, go sit in your own chair I don't want you on my lap anymore"
"If you don't apologize you can't go to the cider mill after the game with us"
"If you don't stop yelling I'm taking you to the car!"
"If you don't apologize right now I'm telling your dad!" (what?!)








Meanwhile the child was begging her mom to let her say something....but mom said "Be quiet right now, no I don't want to hear what you have to say"
"I am going to count to three...."
and so on for like 15 minutes, and I could tell that mom was getting embarrassed and just wanted the girl to please SHUTUP! as if she was on the brink of screaming at her, and the whole time I just wanted to offer a polite and sincere suggestion SOOOOOO badly, because she was going about it alllll wrong. But that would be totally inappropriate, right? I mean, unsolicited advice is never welcome, is it? It was torture having to listen to this!
So the dd gets mom to calm down enough (







) and says "Mommy, please can I say something?" which she had been trying to do the whole time and mom says "WHAT?"

"Sorry mama" and the mom had the nerve to say.... "sorry for what....?" ERGH! This mom totally treated her dd as if dd was not a person and did not deserve to be listened to. And when a kid hits someone you don't force an apology, you explain to them how it feels when someone you love hurts you and teach them to be emphatic to begin with.... Besides, I see no point to arguing with a 3 YEAR OLD! anyway









Have any of you ever been this close to pulling the mom aside and going through step by step everything she did wrong and why?!

You say that the Mom did everything wrong in the book. Whose book? Your book? I hate to break it to you, but people have the right to parent any way they wish(and, no, abuse doesn't fit under that umbrella).Your way may not work for them. Mind your own business.Trust me, life is much simpler when you concentrate on your own affairs


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Once again, I DIDN'T say anything to her. I was never going to! I guess I should just not express my opinions or concerns..... not to her but not even online? I said in the OP, I didn't say anything to her. And I apologize for the comment of "_everything_ wrong in the book" The mom just looked to be at her wit's end.

Are we saying that of the things she said she couldn't have changed anything, that she couldn't have done anything to handle the situation easier for both of them ?... Since I won't see her again, perhaps it's a moot point. I just thought some on this board would have constructive criticsm for people that may be struggling with using these tactics? I know I am not a perfect GDer.???


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## loverlaydown (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunRayeMomi*
Are we saying that of the things she said she couldn't have changed anything, that she couldn't have done anything to handle the situation easier for both of them ?... Since I won't see her again, perhaps it's a moot point. I just thought some on this board would have constructive criticsm for people that may be struggling with using these tactics? I know I am not a perfect GDer.???










I think what you really want to hear is "Oh, that mom can't parent effectively and needs you to intervene. You should definitely have said something." But unless you want a complete snow job, you won't hear it from me....or a few others who have already replied,imho.
Again, what works for you may not work for someone else. I'll say it before and I'll say it again-Focus on your own family and its needs. I don't want to sound nasty, but I doubt that you are so perfect that you can start doling out parenting advice to perfect strangers.


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Since you are offering no positive ideas I can only assume that you are in fact the one that assumes her tactics to be golden. Maybe if I mentioned that I am a child psychologist you would take my suggestions more seriously. When is a fellow mom a good source of advice then?


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## loverlaydown (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunRayeMomi*
Since you are offering no positive ideas I can only assume that you are in fact the one that assumes her tactics to be golden. Maybe if I mentioned that I am a child psychologist you would take my suggestions more seriously. When is a fellow mom a good source of advice then?


I wouldn't care if you are a child psychologist or the damned garbage collector. In your OP, you come across as an elitist know-it-all. I especially love the comment "Mom was doing everything wrong in the book". Again I ask-what book?!! I may not have used her tactics myself, but it isn't my pace to comment on consider what she might be doing incorrectly. And I stress "might".

Again, take care of yourself and your own needs. I guarantee-life is easier when you do that


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## loverlaydown (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunRayeMomi*
Since you are offering no positive ideas I can only assume that you are in fact the one that assumes her tactics to be golden. Maybe if I mentioned that I am a child psychologist you would take my suggestions more seriously. When is a fellow mom a good source of advice then?


Well, what do you want to hear? "Oh,yes, the next time you see someone parenting in a way that you find offensive, embarrass her-and yourself-by offering unsolicted advice. She'll tell you where to go, you'll look like an idout and nothing will change"?


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## chiro_kristin (Dec 31, 2004)

It's so hard to watch children be yelled at by their parents.

My dh's cousin yells at her rambunctious boy all the time. I know she loves him dearly but I rarely see it in action, as her voice is always harsh with him. So what I try to do is just demonstrate gentleness with him... giving him lots of hugs and love, offering him choices instead of just saying "No!" or "KNock it off!" like his mama tends to do. Giving him the attention he craves. I just hope she notices, and notices the great response in his attitude.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Remember the saying, it takes a village to raise a child?

I read half the replies. IMHO, I don't see anything wrong with very calmly and politely saying, "Hey, I noticed you were having a little trouble with your daughter just now. When my son gets like that I try ______. I'm not saying you need to do that, I just thought you might like to have another trick up your sleeve. Man, parenting can be pain in the butt sometimes, can't it?"







I've taken that approach with a few people. I think that if you approach it from the "hey, just trying to help" instead of the "I'm a better parent than you!" point of view people don't get so offended.

Me, personally, I would love to hear another parents advice if they knew of a way to make my life easier. I don't see why people get so angry about this. Maybe if it were approached with a holier-than-thou attitude. I don't go around thinking I already have all the answers, and if I were that parent at the soccer (?) match I would have loved a little extra help.

~Nay


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AntoninBeGonin*
Remember the saying, it takes a village to raise a child? Me, personally, I would love to hear another parents advice if they knew of a way to make my life easier. I don't see why people get so angry about this. Maybe if it were approached with a holier-than-thou attitude. I don't go around thinking I already have all the answers, and if I were that parent at the soccer (?) match I would have loved a little extra help.

~Nay

I think that's what I meant. I don't think I am the better parent at anything! I welcome advice when I can, and I wasn't implying I knew it all. In fact just today I was visiting with all my Aunts (mothering veterans) and they told me a thing or two... I welcome wisdom


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## AsYouWish (Apr 20, 2005)

Hi there. I lurk on this forum a lot. I don't have children yet, but I do have close relationships with my 12 nieces and nephews and was a nanny for a number of years. I have been so tempted a gazillion times over to say a thing or two (or three or a hundred) to two of my four sisters when it comes to some of their discipline tactics. I hold my tongue though. For one, I am the youngest sibling, not to mention that I do not have children of my own yet. So they would totally snap if I said a word. Sometimes I just want to scream, "Obviously this isn't working, so TRY SOMETHING ELSE!" It's the repetition of failing approaches that drives me (and dh) the most insane (not to mention the borderline neglect). And, frankly, these failing approaches are often just unkind. (And I remember one of my sisters taking great pride in the fact that she has never read a parenting book.) However, like I said, I never say a word -- and this is family!

My thought is that there will come a time when I have children of my own, and I know for a fact that these two particular sisters are going to be really forthcoming with all their "helpful" (unsought) advice and treat me like a total idiot, despite my experience and education. I figure that is the moment when I can let fly! And, boy, will it feel good!!!!!!

To those who think that the "everything wrong in the book" phrasing of the OP was out of line or elitist, why in the world do you attempt the possibly-more-intensive GD approach if there aren't some child-rearing tactics that are more effective than others?? I see strangers dealing with their children's behavior in a less than ideal fashion all the time. I never say anything to them, but there is no doubt I sure would like to. Everyone on this forum wants their children to grow up feeling like a whole, respected person, and the GD approach is the best means for that, IMO. What's wrong with wanting that for other people's children, even a stranger's? It might not be appropriate to say anything in most circumstances, but we should all feel some regret that we can't do so when it might help a parent at their wit's end to possibly see some other discipline options that would be a whole lot more nurturing for that child.


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:

Hi there. I lurk on this forum a lot. I don't have children yet, but I do have close relationships with my 12 nieces and nephews and was a nanny for a number of years. I have been so tempted a gazillion times over to say a thing or two (or three or a hundred) to two of my four sisters when it comes to some of their discipline tactics. I hold my tongue though. For one, I am the youngest sibling, not to mention that I do not have children of my own yet. So they would totally snap if I said a word. Sometimes I just want to scream, "Obviously this isn't working, so TRY SOMETHING ELSE!" It's the repetition of failing approaches that drives me (and dh) the most insane (not to mention the borderline neglect). And, frankly, these failing approaches are often just unkind. (And I remember one of my sisters taking great pride in the fact that she has never read a parenting book.) However, like I said, I never say a word -- and this is family!

My thought is that there will come a time when I have children of my own, and I know for a fact that these two particular sisters are going to be really forthcoming with all their "helpful" (unsought) advice and treat me like a total idiot, despite my experience and education. I figure that is the moment when I can let fly! And, boy, will it feel good!!!!!!

To those who think that the "everything wrong in the book" phrasing of the OP was out of line or elitist, why in the world do you attempt the possibly-more-intensive GD approach if there aren't some child-rearing tactics that are more effective than others?? I see strangers dealing with their children's behavior in a less than ideal fashion all the time. I never say anything to them, but there is no doubt I sure would like to. Everyone on this forum wants their children to grow up feeling like a whole, respected person, and the GD approach is the best means for that, IMO. What's wrong with wanting that for other people's children, even a stranger's? It might not be appropriate to say anything in most circumstances, but we should all feel some regret that we can't do so when it might help a parent at their wit's end to possibly see some other discipline options that would be a whole lot more nurturing for that child.








: !


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AntoninBeGonin*
Remember the saying, it takes a village to raise a child?

I read half the replies. IMHO, I don't see anything wrong with very calmly and politely saying, "Hey, I noticed you were having a little trouble with your daughter just now. When my son gets like that I try ______. I'm not saying you need to do that, I just thought you might like to have another trick up your sleeve.











I might not have the nerve to say it like that, but I would probably try to do something to ease the tension while things are going on, or maybe after the fact (even as much as just comforting the mom afterwards, because I've been in her shoes where I just wanted my child to shut the heck up at that very moment).

From what I experience, many people will share their opinion of what you are doing no matter what. If you find a way to do it in a positive, empathetic manner, I think you are doing a service to the world. I have a much greater tolerance for my 2 year old walking alone, not holding my hand, and I have people jumping all over me about it all the time, even chastising me at times. I try to take their comments at face value and understand that they are concerned for my child's welfare and have a different standard of behavior. Plus I do examine what I'm doing and decide if maybe I'm making a mistake, and sometimes I might decide they are right.

Oh well, JMO, of course.


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## Mamma Mia (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
I don't intervene really. I'd be offended if someone stepped in and said "Maam you shouldn't let your kids go outside in the rain without a coat." or etc so I try to think about the shoe being on the other foot and such. I might try to be a positive example though.







I understand how frustrating it can be to witness people being hurtful and demeaning to their children.

OT- My babydaddy had that happen to him once! By a pediatrician! He said, "Well I'm her father and I can tell if she's cold. Thanks anyway." Or something like that. I think oftentimes dads get unwanted advice. It may just be my perception because I almost never do. I think I put out the "don't mess with me vibes".


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## KellyandKatie (Sep 19, 2004)

Where am I? I thought I was on a GD thread on mothering? Why are people giving you greif for this SunRay? I have no idea!
It breaks my heart everytime I see children belitteled and treated with disrespect.
I like to post my frustrations like seeing things like this here on mothering becuase orginally many of the moms came here becuase of similar parenting styles. I have no idea why you are not getting the support you came here to get!
So, let me say, hugs to you and that sweet child, a prayer for that mama so she might find more constructive parenting, and while I wish I could help by offering advice, I will offer a listening ear when mamas want to vent a situation if I do not have advice.
What the heck moms? Where is the support, all she is saying is it is sad when parents belittle their kids and don't you wonder if we should do or say something? I certainly can relate to that!
Do I say stuff? I worry that it will just make the parent more emotional and the parent will take it out on the kid. My DH will say something, but that is part of his job, and he takes it seriously. If the mom or dad really looks like they are just getting frustrated I try to show a commpassionate smile, if they have already gone to far, I make a point of showing my disaproval, and get my DD out of the area. I know not too proactive, I like it when my DH is around I feel much better, and he does it so well, and people never argue with him.


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## cmb123 (Dec 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunRayeMomi*
this is the first time I saw an interaction like this between the mom and daughter so that's probably why I was so shocked.


Quote:

The mom just looked to be at her wit's end.
If this is unusual for the mom, I might have stepped in and stuck up a conversation (not about parenting) with her just to distract her. Maybe given her a grown up to vent on instead of her kid. SOunds like she was having a really bad day, and could have used a friend- not someone stepping in and telling her how to parent.


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## IncaMama (Jun 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loverlaydown*
I wouldn't care if you are a child psychologist or the damned garbage collector.

and that's not at all elitist. the "damned garbage collector", who is clearly on the opposite end of the spectrum. nice.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loverlaydown*
Again, take care of yourself and your own needs. I guarantee-life is easier when you do that









hey, that's great advice! go ahead and take it!


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## Rigama (Oct 18, 2005)

How about an honest show of hands here...Who among us has honestly NEVER witnessed a parenting tactic in a stranger and then come home and said to your DH "man you wouldn't believe what I saw this woman do to her kid at WalMart". After seeing a mother treat her child so awfully, who hasn't called up a girlfriend and said "So I saw this mom and she yelled out to her little 2 year old, 'Fine get run over and die if you want'!" I'm sure we all have. Parenting is a hot topic button and we all have passionate feelings about it, and I think it's perfectly acceptable to voice those passionate feelings(after the fact) instead of letting them sit like a stone of ice in the pit of your stomach. I've had discussions with my dh and my girlfriends about parenting scenes that rubbed me/them the wrong way and I don't think that makes me "elitist" or "judgemental". I think it makes me a passionate person who is sometimes utterly shocked at the brutality used by many moms and dads. I would never interfere, and neither did SunRae. So to answer your question, SunRae, YES I have seen parenting tactics that I vehimently disagree with. I've seen things that make me want to cry. But in those situations, I think about what I would do were I in that exact situation, then I hug my wonderful son and remind him how very loved he is.









Rigama


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by loverlaydown
I wouldn't care if you are a child psychologist or the damned garbage collector.

and that's not at all elitist. the "damned garbage collector", who is clearly on the opposite end of the spectrum. nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loverlaydown
Again, take care of yourself and your own needs. I guarantee-life is easier when you do that

hey, that's great advice! go ahead and take it!
Yeah that!!

Quote:

How about an honest show of hands here...Who among us has honestly NEVER witnessed a parenting tactic in a stranger and then come home and said to your DH "man you wouldn't believe what I saw this woman do to her kid at WalMart". After seeing a mother treat her child so awfully, who hasn't called up a girlfriend and said "So I saw this mom and she yelled out to her little 2 year old, 'Fine get run over and die if you want'!" I'm sure we all have. Parenting is a hot topic button and we all have passionate feelings about it, and I think it's perfectly acceptable to voice those passionate feelings(after the fact) instead of letting them sit like a stone of ice in the pit of your stomach. I've had discussions with my dh and my girlfriends about parenting scenes that rubbed me/them the wrong way and I don't think that makes me "elitist" or "judgemental". I think it makes me a passionate person who is sometimes utterly shocked at the brutality used by many moms and dads. I would never interfere, and neither did SunRae. So to answer your question, SunRae, YES I have seen parenting tactics that I vehimently disagree with. I've seen things that make me want to cry. But in those situations, I think about what I would do were I in that exact situation, then I hug my wonderful son and remind him how very loved he is.
...and that!

I think some of the replies here were downright nasty to the OP...especially by one poster in particular...

I hate when I see someone treating their child like sh*t in public. If I saw true abuse, I would intervene definately...if it were the situation you described, I probably wouldn't have... or maybe I would have engaged the mother in a conversation not about discipline. I might have said something like "wow, it looks like your patience is being tested today!" (light-hearted with a laugh or something)... then asked about something, anything so that she would calm down and not focus on being mean to her daughter "by the way I love that purse, where did you get it!!" (or something similarly cheesy but effective lol)

The rules change though when people are in my home or my space. I would think nothing of saying to someone "we don't allow that kind of behavior in our home" if I saw someone berating or hitting or whatever their child. I might not have control over people's parenting, especially in public, but in my home I can choose what I allow and won't.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

This is such a tricky situation. If this is a stranger, you don't know whether she will gratefully hear you out, or whether she will be embarrassed, blame it on her daughter, and make her daughter suffer even more once they're in private.

By intervening, you can do more good than harm, or more harm than good. It's impossible to predict which.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Here are my thoughts on it. OP...you mention you are a child psychologist...the counseling technique you are describing is called "confrontation" I believe. I think in a therapeutic setting this is used sparingly within the context of "rapport" with a client.

It doesn't sound like you have sufficient "rapport" with this mother to "confront" her on her parenting missteps. It seems to me that you can build a relationship of rapport with her and model other ideas, but that a direct "confrontation" will be ineffective, and possibly counter productive.

(BTW: I'm not a counselor; my ex is so I got to learn a lot of lingo and theory while I supported her through her PhD.)


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Most people weren't nasty to the op. We've all been frustrated by seeing parents treat their kids in a less than stellar way. Of course we're entitled to our opinions, but as mothers I think we owe it to ourselves to give each other the benefit of the doubt. We know how hard we try, how hard it can be, and how it feels when we are criticized as parents based on a single instance or act or bad day.

Having a child act difficult in public is very stressful because lots of people are not understanding of that. Why add to the judgment mothers experience? That's why I think it's likely she could have been just desperately (and yes, ineffectively) reaching for random methods, and probably (unfortuantely) infusing it with patience and intolerance. I think people reacted strongly to the op because it sounded like she was conetemplating saying something to the mother, her op did sound somewhat judgmental, and there seemed to be little original indication that she was trying to be understanding.

If you truly wanted to help, perhaps you could have helped distract the child, or commiserated in some appropriate manner that might ease the stress off her about diffusing the situation immediately so as not to upset people. Unsolicited advice is just plain rude, imo. And I don't think using the 1-2-3 approach or threatening a removal of a privilege (however rudely and angrily it's done) is quite enough to intervene unless she's a close friend with whom you could maybe bring it up in a tactful manner.


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## ceilydhmama (Mar 31, 2003)

Oh, these situations are hard! Because you do know her I would consider saying something. I would try to break the cycle as it starts by interupting with something about my own parenting struggles "Goodness, there are some days - I can barely hold it together when my dd hurts me." Then something you find positive about her child "Your dd is such a sweet girl and seems to try so hard when she makes a mistake." Then make the assumption that she wants to be calm and loving with her dd "Shall I take your dd over to play with mine and give you a chance to catch your breath?"

I've tried this tactic several times, by comiserating with the parent, letting them know they have a great child and giving them a few minutes most have come round. I don't *think* I have offended anyone but I have saved a few kids from an earful


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## mama_b (Dec 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut*
Most people weren't nasty to the op. We've all been frustrated by seeing parents treat their kids in a less than stellar way. Of course we're entitled to our opinions, but as mothers I think we owe it to ourselves to give each other the benefit of the doubt. We know how hard we try, how hard it can be, and how it feels when we are criticized as parents based on a single instance or act or bad day.

Having a child act difficult in public is very stressful because lots of people are not understanding of that. Why add to the judgment mothers experience? That's why I think it's likely she could have been just desperately (and yes, ineffectively) reaching for random methods, and probably (unfortuantely) infusing it with patience and intolerance. I think people reacted strongly to the op because it sounded like she was conetemplating saying something to the mother, her op did sound somewhat judgmental, and there seemed to be little original indication that she was trying to be understanding.

If you truly wanted to help, perhaps you could have helped distract the child, or commiserated in some appropriate manner that might ease the stress off her about diffusing the situation immediately so as not to upset people. Unsolicited advice is just plain rude, imo. And I don't think using the 1-2-3 approach or threatening a removal of a privilege (however rudely and angrily it's done) is quite enough to intervene unless she's a close friend with whom you could maybe bring it up in a tactful manner.









:

In response to some of the pps, yes, this is a GD forum, and yes, we can come here to vent about some of the things we see when we are out and about. However, coming here and venting is different than giving someone unsolicited advice. No matter how much you sugar coat it as trying to be helpful, I think that most people can tell what you are trying to do. And yes, I believe that GD is the most effective way to discipline, but not everyone agrees and I have to respect that as long as they are not yelling at/spanking my children. I would much rather lead by example. Again, JMO.


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Thanks everybody. I think MOST of you understood my questions and I got lots of thoughtful replies to them, so thanks







There were just a few that didn't seem to understand me. I want to apologize for implying that I am a psychologist (I'm not although I read a lot of psych books). I was trying to make a point to a particular poster that kept attacking me. She has been attacking other peopl in other posts as well. My point was that she didn't seem to want to learn anything from her MDC experiences, she just wanted to come in and impress all her advice on everyone but not listen to others' experiences. And just as I expected, even if I feigned to be a pychologist she still felt she had all the answers. Anyway, I say troll to her and thanks again to everyone else.

If I seemed incompassionate to the mother, I will state again that I have not nor will not be saying anything to her. I didn't have the guts to think of something tactful at that time. So I kept my mouth shut and pretended I didn't want to crawl out of my skin. I've been seeing her every Saturday for months and this was my first indication that she was at a loss; just an "off" day I think









You girls are all giving me some great advice here and the next time I come across a situation like this with anyone, perhaps I can impliment some ideas I got from you. But some of you think minding your own business is the way to go. Right on, that's what I did. My original question was more or less asking for opinions. I got 'em! Thanks again. I knew I posted on th right board after all. It's what I expected from fellow GDers


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## loverlaydown (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut*
Having a child act difficult in public is very stressful because lots of people are not understanding of that. Why add to the judgment mothers experience? That's why I think it's likely she could have been just desperately (and yes, ineffectively) reaching for random methods, and probably (unfortuantely) infusing it with patience and intolerance. I think people reacted strongly to the op because it sounded like she was conetemplating saying something to the mother, her op did sound somewhat judgmental, and there seemed to be little original indication that she was trying to be understanding.

If you truly wanted to help, perhaps you could have helped distract the child, or commiserated in some appropriate manner that might ease the stress off her about diffusing the situation immediately so as not to upset people. Unsolicited advice is just plain rude, imo. And I don't think using the 1-2-3 approach or threatening a removal of a privilege (however rudely and angrily it's done) is quite enough to intervene unless she's a close friend with whom you could maybe bring it up in a tactful manner.


Exactly!!!


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## solstar (May 26, 2002)

I wouldn't step in unless someone was in danger.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I think that in some situations, I might try to offer a bit of sympathetic advice, but generally I'd say nothing. And, that's because of my past experiences with ds1.

DS1 was a lovely child. He was (and is) good-tempered, intelligent, creative - just a delight to be around. But, he was (and is) also very high-spirited. When he was younger, I was working a very high-stress job in a brokerage back office. At the same time, my ex and I were having huge problems, and he was doing absolutely nothing around the house _or_ earning an income (I eventually discovered that, in addition to his other issues, he was hooked on cocaine). My health was completely trashed - two courses of antibiotics in two months, after not having taken them in two decades...days of fever-induced delerium, bronchitis...and still working full-time, as we needed to pay the rent. I was getting about 20-30 hours sleep a _week_, due to severe insomnia.

Anyway...that's just background. I was at the end of my rope and could barely function. I was doing all the breadwinning (the ex had a job,but the money all disappeared), all the childcare (including picking ds1 up from the babysitter's, when my ex was home), all the cooking, all the housework - everything...plus dealing with my ex.

DS1 went with me everywhere when I wasn't at work. And, sometimes, when he was just being a kid, I'd blow my top and scream at him. Then, I'd feel terrible for screaming at him, and scream at him even more, because feeling like crap made me even more frustrated, and...vicious circle. On a couple of occasions, someone would look at me and say something like "oh, it's tough when they're that age, isn't it?"...and I'd say "yes"...and take a breather, and be okay. And, once a guy screamed at me from his window as we were walking by (I was carrying heavy groceries, and ds1 was dragging his feet and I just couldn't cope...again) that I shouldn't talk to the kid like that. And, I hate to admit it, but I cursed the guy out and then blew up at ds1 again, because I was so mortified about being yelled at and wanted to get home and out of public.

So...that was all beyond embarrassing to admit to. DS1 had a rough time with me sometimes. But, when I got called out over it in public...it was worse. I didn't need more stress. I couldn't handle more stress. And, that guy, despite the fact that his intentions were probably good, just added more heat to an overloaded pressure-cooker. Yes - I was out of line, and being too hard on my son. But, having a stranger butt in didn't make things any better - it just made it worse.

I did finally realize that my attempts to make things work with my ex were just adding a ton of stress and grief to both me and my son. Once he was out of the picture, my health bounced back, and I started behaving like a rational human being again. But, during that time, someone who had no idea what was going on jumping in didn't help at all.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut*
If you truly wanted to help, perhaps you could have helped distract the child,

This is what I would do. My sister's done this for me before, in fact. I was in a huge power struggle with my dd, and she just distracted her, started a conversation about something else, and got the attention off of what we had been fighting about. She's very tactful and it worked great. I've since tried it with a friend of mine who was just having a bad day with her son, and it worked great then, too. In fact, I asked him about something I knew he was good at, which seemed to make his mom feel proud of him, instead of annoyed with him.

I agree it takes a village, but it's just not helpful to tell someone how to do it at a time like that, no matter what your credentials are.


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## delicious (Jun 16, 2003)

yeah that to distracting the child. seriously, if i am out somewhere and my kids are acting nutso, i'm already annoyed, most likely. someone adding their .02 is just going to make it worse.

maybe this mama was just having a bad day.


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## Minky (Jun 28, 2005)

I think the best thing you can do is be a good example when you discipline your kids in her presence so she might pick up on some techniques. If you point it out without her asking for advice she is just going to feel judged.

And we do use the time out by the car technique here but i actually follow through on it once I say it.


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## luckylady (Jul 9, 2003)

You said she (the DD) is well behaved most of the time, so the parents/mother is obviously doing something right. Her child hitting her is probably a sore spot - I know it is with me - and when a person is angry laughter is the best medicine. I know if someone said something to me when I was PO'd I would be pretty ticked off, unless it was a good friend who knew the whole story.


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## amyjeans (Jul 27, 2004)

Dear OP-
that first post is me to a T. I find mysef shouting/hollering at my dd who honestly can be a beast sometimes and if that were me right there, ANY comments about my behavior would have just fueled my fire that deep down I am desparately trying to put out. God only knows how I would have reacted to you! Might have been ugly.
I know when my dd acts up and gets under my skin, its not the worst thing in the world, and usually can be dealt with accordingly. But sometimes, her nagging for whatever reason really just puts me to my wits end...because so many other factors add stress to me, and her behavior happens to be the icing on the cake.
Does that make sense? Its not her actions that irritate me, its my reactions.
But in the heat of the moment- my mouth gets going and I show my muscles (and claws) trying to win.
Now that I have said that- and I am not flaming mad...what advice would you give this cranky mom aka me?


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amyjeans*
Now that I have said that- and I am not flaming mad...what advice would you give this cranky mom aka me?









The Buddihist monk, Thich Nhat Hanh, wrote a book that helped bring peace to my soul and give me tools to.... PAUSE.....BREATHE......consider my reaction in the heat of the moment, BEFORE reacting automatically and viscerally. He has many books; but "Peace is Every Step" really empowered me to see my explosive reactions as a *learned* coping mechanism that could be *unlearned*. And it offered methods of identifying my underlying feelings and needs to help me take care of my anger (smoldering since childhood). He has a new book called "ANGER". I have only just started it. And it too is powerful and comforting to increasing my awareness, understanding and caretaking (compassion toward mySelf) of my emotional angst at myself for not being as calm as I wish I were and strive to be.

Also, "Kids, Parents and Power Struggles"; "Raising Your Spirited Child"; "How to Talk so Kids will Listen, How to Listen so Kids will Talk"; "Kids Are Worth It! giving your child the gift of inner discipline; "Living Joyfully with Children" are some of my favorites.

HTH, Pat


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## ceilydhmama (Mar 31, 2003)

You know, I find it really sad how few of us are willing to talk to other parents having a tough time. I just don't get it. Maybe it was the way I was raised; within an active and loving community, filled with adults who watched out for each others kids. But I can't stand by while an adult is going off on a child. I think it is a really sad symptom of our society that we are so afraid to lend a compassionate hand.

I completely agree that giving a "Parenting 101" class would be way out of line, but saying something, anything shouldn't be...

I always remember my sister's story about a scenario like this. She was shopping with her young son who was knocking stuff off shelves and acting up like crazy, she lost it and began to yell. The store manager came, gave her son an apple and told my sister to take her time shopping, that she was welcome in his store as long as she needed to be, while she got things under control.

Initially she was embarrased, probably even madder, but she says she still goes out of her way to shop there because the manager cared that she was having a bad day.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

That manager sounds lovely. There were definitely a few people who spared ds1 a really bad time with his mom (me) way back when. It was sometimes a little embarrassing, but someone just taking the time to say "oh - it's so frustrating when they do that, isn't it? But, they're so worth it" really helped me put things back in perspective a little and appreciate my wonderful little boy.


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## MAMom (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Welllll. I intervene all the time. Drives my poor dh crazy as he just wants to hide. But especially when I see children verbally, emotionally or physically assaulted and from what you described this fits almost all three, imnsho.

I usually diplomatically and with great finesse *empathize* with the parent and suggest a couple of books to "make their life easier". EVERY time, the parent has ended up Thanking me!

I say something along the lines of 'Oh, I see you have a spirited (active, strong minded) daughter, like I do. My friend gave me a couple of books that made my life so much easier. Here are the names of them. Gosh, I don't know what I would have done without them; it can be so frustrating sometimes. I have seen them at the library even.' And I give them a little paper with these two book titles written down:

Kids, Parents and Power Struggles
Raising Your Spirited Child

Btw, they are both empathetic to the child's pov and if any parent reads anything out of either, it is nearly impossible not to be moved to change the dynamic to cooperation and respectful, reflective listening and compassionate problem solving. I highly recommend both.

If I were to witness a child being hit, I would just empatically say "STOP! How can I help, you seem so upset, what can I do to help?" And do the book spiel above. Unless, it appeared to be abuse, then I would call 911 and collect all identifying information possible (car license, make) to provide to the police. I am passionately willing to intervene, because I was that child.

HTH, Pat

I think this is a really great approach - especially being prepared with the book titles. I am personally too confrontational for something like this to come out of my mouth sounding very nice, but it sounds like it works well for scubamama.

I figure if millions of people are willing to take parenting advice from the likes of Nanny 911 & Super Nanny, what harm can it do for you to offer a few GD suggestions to a stuggling mom? If you help one person with your advice/suggestions, and everyone else disregards it, that's one kid (and parent) who's life might be a little happier.


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## Mamma Mia (Aug 3, 2005)

Personally, I am pretty hardcore GD, but it's not my place to intervene. Perhaps after the moment passed it would be appropriate to bring up similar behaviors in my child and make recommendations. If she was just having a bad day and you give her advice, it's going to come of as pretty patronizing and the tone of your OP with the "everything wrong in the book" shows that perhaps you are kind of being patronizing. I don't mean it as an attack, but I think it's something to look at. I understand the frustration you have, but we all have bad days.

If you're really wanting to give input, maybe bringing up parenting in a more general chit chat sense would help her open up to you. Sometimes comments like, "That age is really tough." are all it takes to open the floodgates of frustration.


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amyjeans*
Dear OP-
that first post is me to a T. I find mysef shouting/hollering at my dd who honestly can be a beast sometimes and if that were me right there, ANY comments about my behavior would have just fueled my fire that deep down I am desparately trying to put out. God only knows how I would have reacted to you! Might have been ugly.

When I posted this thread I had no intentions of ever talking to this mom about her parenting skills (actually, I doubt I'll ever see her again period).

Quote:



Now that I have said that- and I am not flaming mad...what advice would you give this cranky mom aka me?









My intention: I thought that maybe someone who saw this thread and could relate to the way this mom handled her dd might be able to use some advice given by all the wise mamas here. Hope it helps you, AMYJEANS









I think the tactics this mom used were all failures for mostly one common reason: *She didn't follow through*.
Discipline isn't going to work if you're just doling out empty threats. I think it may have also helped if instead of just issuing threats, she took a deep breath and knelt down to her daughter's height, looked her straight in the eyes and calmly admitted to her that she (mom) understood why she was uspest, and that mom is upset too and "how can we make this better?" or something similar. (When we as parents are upset about something, is it not fair that we are treated as if our feelings matter? Why then does it sometimes not work the same for children? Because they cannot articulate their feelings as well, they do not count?) Then she could maybe say that she's not mad that dd hit her, she's just sad because it hurt and that "maybe we should take a walk or something since you seem bored?" To teach your child empathy you must model it for them. How can you expect a child to know what is expected of them without showing them first? When we yell at our kids, we prove we are no better at communicating then they are. So where do they learn better skills if we cannot provide the model....? IMO


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

I think at times like this opening up a line for her to rant to you about how tough having kids can be would be helpful. It might bring her back to reality a little bit about how she was acting in public and how unreasonable she was being. In situations like that the only thing I might do is if that conversation did lead anywhere to let me say, "you know I read once that if you blah, blah, blah (insert random 'expert' advise here) it might work but I'm not always sure about things I read in books - they can seem so utopian at times. I'm not sure all these experts had kids of their own you know what I mean?" I realize I kind of discredited my own advice by saying that but I think it takes the whole superiority edge off the statement and works like a 'spoon full of sugar to make the medicine go down.'

Other than that I just try to model what I think was the 'better' way when my kid acts up - somewhat within her earshot but not so obvious for it to seem like I was rubbing it in that I think I'm a better mom.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ceilydhmama*
You know, I find it really sad how few of us are willing to talk to other parents having a tough time. I just don't get it. Maybe it was the way I was raised; within an active and loving community, filled with adults who watched out for each others kids. But I can't stand by while an adult is going off on a child. I think it is a really sad symptom of our society that we are so afraid to lend a compassionate hand.

I don't think it's as bad as all that. Mothering is a relationship, and a very personal one at that. It's hard to know what's really going on when seeing it from the outside.

That said, I like the manager giving the kid an apple. My dd threw a huge, screaming fit at Lowe's this weekend, and I would have loved it if someone came and distracted her with anything. Parenting advice, however, would not have been the least bit welcome.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah*
I don't think it's as bad as all that. Mothering is a relationship, and a very personal one at that. It's hard to know what's really going on when seeing it from the outside.

That said, I like the manager giving the kid an apple. My dd threw a huge, screaming fit at Lowe's this weekend, and I would have loved it if someone came and distracted her with anything. Parenting advice, however, would not have been the least bit welcome.

I understand what you're saying, but I doubt you'd use the non-GD methods the woman in the original story was using. Therefore, you wouldn't need to be given any advice.







There have been many times where I've seen someone using GD methods--no matter how upset the child at the moment--and complimented them on their fine parenting skills. Every single time I have gotten the biggest smiles from people.

I wouldn't try to give little hints of help wrapped in a kind tone of voice and tied with smile of understanding unless the parent was using very hurtful and punitive punishments on the child.

~Nay


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
DS1 was a lovely child. He was (and is) good-tempered, intelligent, creative - just a delight to be around. But, he was (and is) also very high-spirited...DS1 went with me everywhere when I wasn't at work. And, sometimes, when he was just being a kid, I'd blow my top and scream at him. Then, I'd feel terrible for screaming at him, and scream at him even more, because feeling like crap made me even more frustrated, and...vicious circle. On a couple of occasions, someone would look at me and say something like "oh, it's tough when they're that age, isn't it?"...and I'd say "yes"...and take a breather, and be okay. And, once a guy screamed at me from his window as we were walking by (I was carrying heavy groceries, and ds1 was dragging his feet and I just couldn't cope...again) that I shouldn't talk to the kid like that. And, I hate to admit it, but I cursed the guy out and then blew up at ds1 again, because I was so mortified about being yelled at and wanted to get home and out of public.

So...that was all beyond embarrassing to admit to. DS1 had a rough time with me sometimes. But, when I got called out over it in public...it was worse. I didn't need more stress. I couldn't handle more stress. And, that guy, despite the fact that his intentions were probably good, just added more heat to an overloaded pressure-cooker. Yes - I was out of line, and being too hard on my son. But, having a stranger butt in didn't make things any better - it just made it worse.


Hi Lisa,

Sorry to hear about the crummy time you had with your ex.









I think I understand your story correctly. You're saying that when your Ds1 was acting up in public and people spoke to you kindly "hey Mama, sorry about your rough day" then you would feel better. But when haywire man went haywire and starting screaming at you, then you blew a fuse and cussed him out. That makes perfect sense to me. Heck, I bet I would have done the same thing LOL. I think you've made a good point though--sometimes Moms need sympathy more than advice. I guess some people are tactful enough and fast-thinking enough to hide bits of advice in sympathy. ( I wish I were more like that! LOL)

Honestly though folks, none of us know everything. We (parents as a whole, not just us on GD forum) should really try and remember to take a deep breath, and maybe even take a moment to listen to the nosy stranger who's just trying to help.







They're not there to piss you off, or cause trouble. I seriously doubt anyone would even bother approaching a stranger unless they really cared about kids, YKWIM? It shouldn't be considered an embarassment to accept help once in a while.

~Nay


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AntoninBeGonin*
It shouldn't be considered an embarassment to accept help once in a while.

~Nay









:
Let's all help ourselves to some humble pie. We may know that GD is the best way to parent for us, but that doesn't mean we know everything


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I know what you're saying, but I disagree. How can we not take it personally? Of course we should consider what others (whom we know and trust have our best interest at heart) might say, but it IS personal. We love our kids more than anyone else, we give give give, and it's hard feel like your parenting is being judged because they disagree with something.

I think few people would think of correcting a grown man for doing something stupid but everyone's got an opinion on parenting. Of course, it's different when children's safety or self-estem is on the line, but that's not always the case, and the idea of telling moms how to parent (be it society, strangers, or other moms) is often done when the kid's safety is irrelevant and is more about judging her parenting tactics, imo. I'm not saying we can never feel that judgment, I just think we should grant some moms more respect than they get.

I've only been "advised" by my mother an mother-in-law, and I can say it drove me apeshit, considering that I have firsthand knowledge of their glaring flaws. I have been "helped" twice by women in public when my son was acting up, once when he was sort of tantruming and I had my baby in a carseat as well. Neither offered advice (well I wasn't yelling or anything, but I'm sure someone could come up with something wrong, I'm sure plenty of people would think I was being too permissive just sitting there trying to help him calm down) and I appreciated their help immensely. One of them still seemed more condescending than helpful though, because he wasn't really acting up and neither was I. Do you eat humble pie when people say you're spoiling your child by holding him so much or some such?


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut*
Do you eat humble pie when people say you're spoiling your child by holding him so much or some such?


I think you are taking this _thread_ too personally. It's a totally hypothetical conversation. I respect that you disagree with some of the things mentioned and discussed here. I do too. I also agree with some of them. I'm not going to pick at them or take them too literal either though. I already admitted that I don't have the guts to offer parental advice to a stranger. So these situations have turned _hypothetical_ for me. KWIM?


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I believe that one of the main reasons that I choose to parent unconditionally without use of rewards or punishments is *precisely* so that our son is not indoctrinated to be emotionally dependent on the external motivations and external judgement of others about his behavior except as it affects them. So, basically, others thinking I "spoil" our son is as irrelevant to me as whether anyone ever eats a piece of pumpkin pie. "Their" opinion (MIL, strangers, others here), since my behavior doesn't affect them, doesn't matter more than a hill of beans to me. I might thank them for their concern and ask where the diaper isle is.









And I believe that by helping our son to observe how and when his behavior *does* affect others, myself included, and recognizng other's *re*actions, he is more attuned to relevant external feedback. Instead of desensitized or overly sensitized to every external judgement that he encounters from arbitrary praise and shame that every Tom, Dick and Juanita might scowl at me in public places or from MILs.









In relation to this thread, I think that I contribute supportive resources to parents *when* the child appears to be negatively affected, not because *my* opinion is more valid than the parent's. But the *child's opinion* about how their parent's behavior *is* affecting them is relevant and valid. I am willing to advocate on the side of the disempowered individual in the parent/child dynamic by empathizing and offering support toward a more cooperative relationship.

Just my $0.02

Pat


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunRayeMomi*
I think you are taking this _thread_ too personally. It's a totally hypothetical conversation. I respect that you disagree with some of the things mentioned and discussed here. I do too. I also agree with some of them. I'm not going to pick at them or take them too literal either though. I already admitted that I don't have the guts to offer parental advice to a stranger. So these situations have turned _hypothetical_ for me. KWIM?

Huh? Of course it's somewhat personal- I'm a mom, I feel strongly that moms are judged too harshly and I'm expressing that opinions wrt to "hypothetical" situations, which are often real, for many of us. I don't think I'm "picking anything apart," or taking things "too" personally, which sounds rather negative, just because I'm looking closely at our intentions behind correcting mothers. I haven't been offered advice myself, as I said, so it's not like I'm getting all personal and defensive. You suggested that people humbly listen to advice, and I'm just saying that I doubt we do ourselves, when we think it's wrong.


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Well, I suppose the point of this thread is getting a little distorted so I think I will stop here. Thanks for everyone's comments


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

SunRayeMomi said:


> How does it make you feel when you see something like this go down right next to you? QUOTE]
> 
> Its heartbreaking to listen to -- that little apology. But can only imagine the mom must have been heartbroken 10x - even if she was too proud to show it.
> 
> But agree with the PPs that said - don't give advice.


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Welllll. I intervene all the time. Drives my poor dh crazy as he just wants to hide. But especially when I see children verbally, emotionally or physically assaulted and from what you described this fits almost all three, imnsho.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Nay: Thanks for the kinds words. I thought I was doing the best thing for my son, by trying to make the marriage work. I felt that he deserved to have his dad - it wasn't his fault that I'd made a poor choice, or that his dad was being an immature idiot.

It took me a while, but I did eventually figure out that his dad's behaviour was hurting him, and I was hurting him because of the way I behaved as a result of my ex's behaviour (convulted sentence - sorry). I couldn't believe the difference in our lives when I kicked my ex out. I think I'm a pretty decent mom these days...but it hurts to know I can't ever make up for my major mistakes when he was little.

Anyway...other people's parenting drives me up a wall a lot of the time. But, with strangers, I probably wouldn't say anything, because seeing just a slice of the dynamic doesn't give me enough info to work with. I'm sure people who saw me with ds1 sometimes I thought Iwas a parent who just yelled all the time. But, I rarely did so in the grand scheme of things - quite often, when I was trying to get something _done_, over the course of about a year - but not very often at all outside of that. And, I spent a lot of time playing with him...and I did often take a few breaths and get in control and turn things into a game. (For example - the "trying to get home with heavy bags of groceries" thing. That day, I blew my top. But, several times, I turned it into a "Quest". We'd be trying to beat the "blizzard" or the "evil wizard" or the ...whatever home with the groceries. And, he had fun and we got home more quickly.) So - I wasn't always a psycho-shrew...even though I probably looked like one.

Does this have a point? I don't know - ds2 kept me up late, and dd woke me up really early, and my brain's fuzzy.


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

sunraemomi-
I can relate completely. I understand where you coming from,(as I am a gd'er also). I thought this board was geared towards that???? geesh..such hostility..
anyway I don't give out advice to strangers either,as much as I cringe when I am witnessing stuff like this. You just can't,you never know if someone will take offense to this and what they'll do about it. I usually will smile in a "I sympathise with you" kind of way,maybe they'll calm down if they think people aren't judging them but rather empethysing(sp?).
And on the other hand she may have been having an off day.

I have a friend who regularly smacks her kids and screams at them. I have tried to talk with her about it as she is my friend (our dh's are best friends)but she says that where she is from, this is the way people do it and it makes the kids tougher because where she is from, they are poor and the kids need to know life is hard. and if you don't they grow up spoiled (whatever that means). they have a saying if you don't bend the tree while it is small it will break..?well this is very hard for me...she knows I don't hit.
but I have limited the time I spend with them because it bothers me so much. uhm,sorry to hyjack your thread...


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loverlaydown*
You say that the Mom did everything wrong in the book. Whose book? Your book? I hate to break it to you, but people have the right to parent any way they wish(and, no, abuse doesn't fit under that umbrella).Your way may not work for them. Mind your own business.Trust me, life is much simpler when you concentrate on your own affairs









Welcome to Mothering. Have you read the web statement of purpose? Perhaps that would give you an idea of what "we" generally stand for.
http://www.mothering.com/mdc/rulesgu...vertising.html

If every person minded only their own affairs, there would be many attrocities in the world. Indeed, if you were concentrating only on your own affairs, you certainly would not be here on this message board. After all, it is not minding your own business to upbraid someone for caring about a child.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

There is something I have done, but only with acquaintences, not really strangers.
WHen I see a mom really having a rough time with their toddler I have made a comment like.
"Boy it sure is hard to be two." (or three or whatever age the child is or appears to be)
This distracts the mom from the focus on the child without challenging her directly. It is respectful to the child because it assumes the child is having a rough time and not being willfully a pain on purpose or whatever.
The next line I almost always hear is "It's tough to be the mom of a 2 year old too". And suddenly the door is open.
Next thing you know I am sharing BTDT experience and she is listening voluntarilly because by stating "it's tough to be a mom" that is her way of inviting the conversation to continue. Nobody is offended, and mom feels sympathized with. (even if my underlying goal was to sympathize with the child). I can say something like "yeah it drives me nuts too when my kids do that. I just try to remember this"
I try not to think in terms of parenting "wrong" but in terms of lost patience.

Joline
I didnt have to say "maybe that's not working" or "perhaps you might have more luck with this".


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Oh nevermind. But suffice it to say that some of us who don't like the idea of giving unsolicited advice based on only brief observations are not less concerned with GD or making a difference.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I'm lame-- or maybe it's passive-agressive?









When i see people going off on their kids, I almost always say 'Gosh, she's adorable. Even when they are driving you crazy, they are as cute as anything". This usually gets the parent off the kid. Then, 'It's like they never get enough sleep or protein. Don't you love it when they act like you're killing them in public?"

After the parent breathes a sigh of relief and chuckles, realizing nobody is going to call DSS, I say "Don't worry about it. I'm surprised my kid hasn't lost it yet. These games are so freaking long. (or grocery shopping isn't as good as Mr Rogers--whatever). We've all been there, don't sweat it". But tone is everything. be firendly, smile at the cute kid. Cut the parent some slack even if they drove up in an SUV and has manicured nails. You care about the kids' well being --and what the parent is like doesn't change that.

We can judge parents all we want, but if we act like know-it-alls with our (currently) perfectly-acting child, we are not helping the distressed child.

Do you want to be 'right' or do you want to give a tired parent and little kid a break?

Maybe the woman who threw her kids off the SF pier had had it uptohere with know-it-alls at the grocery store. We talk all the time about villages and helping here, but the sad fact is it's a whole lot more fun to call 911 or tell someone how horrible a parent they are than to put one's ego aside and be decent and dare i say it? *Nice*??

I know some of you won't like it--but my goal is to get the parent off the kid's ass. Not to give them the Secret of Perfect Parenting by Me.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I'm passive aggressive like that as well.








It diffuses the situation, I find. And I think you're right. An interaction in the parking lot isn't likely to change someone's parenting philosophy, and might actually make things worse for the child. But a gentle word and a moment of compassion can take things out of crisis mode, and you never know what will happen from there.


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
We talk all the time about villages and helping here, but the sad fact is it's a whole lot more fun to call 911 or tell someone how horrible a parent they are than to put one's ego aside and be decent and dare i say it? *Nice*??

I know some of you won't like it--but my goal is to get the parent off the kid's ass. Not to give them the Secret of Perfect Parenting by Me.


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

My mother has been known to drop her purse, spilling the contents, in front of a parent who is spiraling out of control and yelling at or hitting their child. She makes a minor fuss, and usually they stop what they're doing to help the poor frazzled white-haired lady pick up her things.

She uses those moments to establish a friendly, sympathetic connection with the mom who's losing it. Usually just a few kind words are enough to defuse the situation. A couple of times, she's wound up taking the person to the mall food court for a Coke and some supportive conversation.

I don't think this method would work for me. My mom is someone who's been through absolutely everything with kids, to the point that nothing kids can do upsets her anymore. That shows. And she's got a strong personal gift for loving acceptance, which I can only hope to grow into someday.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Wow. Your mama sounds like an awesome woman.


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## Monda (Sep 26, 2002)

Now that could work... I am going to try it sometime if needed.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rivka5*
My mother has been known to drop her purse, spilling the contents, in front of a parent who is spiraling out of control and yelling at or hitting their child. She makes a minor fuss, and usually they stop what they're doing to help the poor frazzled white-haired lady pick up her things.

She uses those moments to establish a friendly, sympathetic connection with the mom who's losing it. Usually just a few kind words are enough to defuse the situation. A couple of times, she's wound up taking the person to the mall food court for a Coke and some supportive conversation.

I don't think this method would work for me. My mom is someone who's been through absolutely everything with kids, to the point that nothing kids can do upsets her anymore. That shows. And she's got a strong personal gift for loving acceptance, which I can only hope to grow into someday.


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## pfamilygal (Feb 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
I say something along the lines of 'Oh, I see you have a spirited (active, strong minded) daughter, like I do. My friend gave me a couple of books that made my life so much easier. Here are the names of them. Gosh, I don't know what I would have done without them; it can be so frustrating sometimes. I have seen them at the library even.' And I give them a little paper with these two book titles written down:

HTH, Pat

I hate to say it, but I would probably respond to you with "Oh, I see you have trouble minding your own business, like I sometimes do. It got so much easier once I realized that other people's children aren't mine."

Seriously, we have all had children melt down in public (my 5 year old screaming "mommy, you are fired and cannot come to my birthday party!" at my in Target the other day - oy!), and I would come off my rocker if someone started trying to give me advise. The nicest thing that anyone has done when my kids are having public freak outs is smile sympathetically and say "this too shall pass" or "oh, I remember when mine were that young. You certainly have your hands full." Those words made me feel much less alone.

Sorry if I sound defensive, but your post came across very patronizing to me. As if you are supernanny running around fixing everyone's parenting blunders.


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## loverlaydown (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
Cut the parent some slack even if they drove up in an SUV and has manicured nails. You care about the kids' well being --and what the parent is like doesn't change that.

.


I'm sorry if I misundestand you, but what is wrong with owning an SUV or having manicured nails?


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Wow. Your mama sounds like an awesome woman.









:

I had a grandma like that! Oh how I wish I had that gift!


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## Danielsmom (Jul 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut*
I know what you're saying, but I disagree. How can we not take it personally? Of course we should consider what others (whom we know and trust have our best interest at heart) might say, but it IS personal. We love our kids more than anyone else, we give give give, and it's hard feel like your parenting is being judged because they disagree with something.

I think few people would think of correcting a grown man for doing something stupid but everyone's got an opinion on parenting. Of course, it's different when children's safety or self-estem is on the line, but that's not always the case, and the idea of telling moms how to parent (be it society, strangers, or other moms) is often done when the kid's safety is irrelevant and is more about judging her parenting tactics, imo. I'm not saying we can never feel that judgment, I just think we should grant some moms more respect than they get.

I've only been "advised" by my mother an mother-in-law, and I can say it drove me apeshit, considering that I have firsthand knowledge of their glaring flaws. I have been "helped" twice by women in public when my son was acting up, once when he was sort of tantruming and I had my baby in a carseat as well. Neither offered advice (well I wasn't yelling or anything, but I'm sure someone could come up with something wrong, I'm sure plenty of people would think I was being too permissive just sitting there trying to help him calm down) and I appreciated their help immensely. One of them still seemed more condescending than helpful though, because he wasn't really acting up and neither was I. Do you eat humble pie when people say you're spoiling your child by holding him so much or some such?

I agree with this entire post.

Even when there's no borderline abusive behavior going on from mom to child, people still seem to think it's their business to tell me and others how to parent. And it drives me nuts. But what especially drives me nuts is that the would very rarely make these comments to a MAN.


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## IncaMama (Jun 23, 2004)

i've said things like "aren't you glad they're so cute?" or "i feel ya." or "don't you just wish YOU could throw a tantrum sometimes, thrash on the floor and scream for cookies?"

i remember once i was out and about with my little man (about 6mos ago so he'd just turned 2) and he started freaking out for some reason (don't remember) and i was getting pretty flustered and feeling pretty embarrassed...a mom with 3 kids walked by me and said "ahh, good times." LOL! it was great! i started cracking up and it just deflated all of my anger. it was so sarcastic and came from a place of "i've been there, you're not the only one, it'll get better" and it just felt so great. i didn't need "advice"...it was a fleeting moment in our day, but her comment really helped to just diffuse my anger.


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *michelemiller*

i remember once i was out and about with my little man (about 6mos ago so he'd just turned 2) and he started freaking out for some reason (don't remember) and i was getting pretty flustered and feeling pretty embarrassed...a mom with 3 kids walked by me and said "ahh, good times." LOL! it was great! i started cracking up and it just deflated all of my anger. it was so sarcastic and came from a place of "i've been there, you're not the only one, it'll get better" and it just felt so great. i didn't need "advice"...it was a fleeting moment in our day, but her comment really helped to just diffuse my anger.










Now that's what I'm talkin' about









I guess some people _don't_ see it as butting in? Which is what I was really wondering...


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## IncaMama (Jun 23, 2004)

well, i think it depends on the wording and on who it's coming from...she had 3 little kids with her. i had 1. it immediately set her up as a BTDT mom who i was SURE had had her share of crappy days. i mean with 3 kids, it's impossible not to have had a FEW, right? LOL and she didn't choose to offer me anything other than a commiserating sentiment. she didn't say "when my 2 yr old does that, i usually yadda yadda yadda". i'd like to think i'd be open to it, but let's face it. when i'm ALREADY embarrassed and ASSUMING that everybody's thinking i'm the world's crappiest parent with the world's most devilish child, a comment like that would only CONFIRM my fear.

because what i'm feeling in the moment is usually a combination of embarrassment at the thought that they're judging me and OUTRAGE at the thought that they're judging ME when i KNOW that the same crap has happened to them. LOL so when she chose to confirm that crap happens to us all, i was being affirmed. she was saying "yes, you're right, we've all been there. and boy does it suck." the fact that she was sarcastic about it was even better bc i'm a sarcastic son of a gun too.

it's the sisterhood of mothers that she was sort of letting me in on for a moment. her own particular sisterhood. from her tone, from her situation, and from her words, i knew that she wasn't there to judge me. she was just there to let me know that it happens to the best of us.

with your situation, it was a bit different bc it was the parenting tactics and not necessarily the child's behavior that you found disturbing. i'm sure my situation could have escalated into that if it had gone on for a few more minutes. LOL i just hadn't had time to act like a b*tch yet. i'm sure i would have lost it in a moment and done something awful if she hadn't just stopped me dead in my tracks. so maybe in your situation, it might have helped her to hear a word or two like that before it got really bad. before she'd had the opportunity to mess up or make a bad call or overreact or whatever. maybe not, but...maybe.

i think we shouldn't be afraid to offer others our support or encouragement. not necessarily advice, but just that simple word of camaraderie that we could all hear once in a while. motherhood and parenthood is sometimes really really really tiring or hard. especially when you feel like all eyes are on you.

i remember another time that someone's words helped me a lot...my son has a puke problem. very gaggy, very sensitive to choking, and vomits OFTEN (well, not for a few months now - YAY!! - but for a while it was almost daily)...we were in a restaurant while on a looong road trip...our nerves were frayed because we'd been driving from Canada to Pennsylvania...looong trip with a 1.5yo. gotta say.

anyway, we were in a restaurant when Rowan started the gag. you know the one. and then it started. projectile ALL over our table. our first reaction (this was a year ago, so we weren't QUITE veterans yet lol) was sheer embarrassment. we felt SO badly that other patrons had to watch some stranger spew all over our food. it was AWFUL. we should have been used to it by then, but it was still embarrassing and awful. well, the waitress ran over with some towels...she was an elderly woman with the sweetest smile. i kept apologizing, as did DH...and she just said "oh, shush. what is there to be sorry about? it happens." then she started rubbing DS's back and said "it's ok, you just let it come. it'll feel so much better when you're all done. it's ok, we're all right here." i had tears in my eyes. omg what a dork i have tears in my eyes AGAIN just WRITING about it! (i'm pregnant. sue me.) it was the sweetest gesture in the world. she displayed all of the most gentle mothering skills that i like to think i offer my son most of the time...but i didn't that day. because i was embarrassed and tired and hungry, staring at my plate of yummy food with puke all over it. this woman comforted my son when i couldn't, and didn't offer one single bit of judgment about why i couldn't.

she brought us all new plates of food and didn't charge us for them. and she helped clean off my son, stroking his hair and being so sweet with him. she brought him some cute little stuffed animals (they were one of those restaurants with gift stores attached) and didn't charge us for them. as we were leaving, she told us that it was her last day...she had just retired after working there for over 40 years. i really felt a sense of loss that the next family with a pukey kid wouldn't have the benefit of her kindness.

anyway, that's just another example of how POSITIVE an experience it can be to have someone step out of their own worlds and join yours for a while. it's about delivery.









ok now i'm gonna go hug my baby boy...who hasn't vomited for 3 months.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Word.

And did you see that waitress start glowing and fly away after the incident? Was she wearing all white?


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## IncaMama (Jun 23, 2004)

i half expected her to. and i must say, that i had a very tingly/chills feeling when she said it was her last day...i mean...what are the chances? the crazy thing is that we'd left a day early on our drive. we weren't supposed to be there yet...but we decided to leave early from our vacation and come home. and we'd gotten lost and shouldn't have been in that little town. i do feel that it was some sort of divine intervention. the planets and stars aligned to bring us to that restaurant on that day with that sweet angel of a woman. she honestly has changed how both DH and I view those pukey times in restaurants. we were always great about it at home, but would freak out in public...and that stressed Rowan out so much that it made it worse, but of course we couldn't see that. but boy did we see a difference in his behaviors and his attitude when the woman helped him. he was so much more calm...and he didn't say "sorry" once. a lot of times he'd apologize to us while he was vomiting...how awful?? because we couldn't get over our own stupid selves, we'd make our son feel bad enough that he'd apologize mid-hurl.






























she taught me so much. and we weren't even supposed to be there.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *michelemiller*
i remember once i was out and about with my little man (about 6mos ago so he'd just turned 2) and he started freaking out for some reason (don't remember) and i was getting pretty flustered and feeling pretty embarrassed...a mom with 3 kids walked by me and said "ahh, good times." LOL! it was great! i started cracking up and it just deflated all of my anger. it was so sarcastic and came from a place of "i've been there, you're not the only one, it'll get better" and it just felt so great. i didn't need "advice"...it was a fleeting moment in our day, but her comment really helped to just diffuse my anger.


















You know, I think so many moms feel that they're under a microscope out in public-that everyone around them is just staring and deciding whether or not they're a good mom based on the one incident that's happening. And you know, sometimes that is what's happening. And when you feel this way, you don't always parent at your best-you get embarrassed, you get flustered, you lose perspective, you don't feel creative, you're tense. It can feel so good, so liberating, so supportive for someone to just say "hey, I've been there. It happens. Kids do this." I would welcome this kind of comment any day. I try to offer this kind of support when I'm out and see other parents having a tough time. It's so important.

I was once having a bad day, and the kids were in my dh's store and getting hyper. They were horsing around, I thought they were in a customer's way, and they were getting loud. I was irritable and preoccupied due to other things, and I had that edge in my voice as I told them to stop what they were doing-and they weren't listening, which added to my frustration and that tone in my voice. The customer simply smiled at me and said, gently, "they're just being kids, mom." I cannot tell you how big a difference that made for me and thus for my kids. This man could have then gone on to give me advice in his gentle, smiling way and I probably would've gladly listened (doesn't hurt to listen). He didn't. Now, maybe he wasn't trying to help me at all but was really wanting me to lay off my kids. Maybe he really just wanted to help us all relax, maybe he'd been there with his kids and knew in hindsight that what was happening wasn't worth getting stressed over. Who knows? But he was kind, and it felt like he supported all of us, and I saw that what my kids were doing was indeed no big deal. I was very grateful.

I think this is really such a nice way to reach out to another parent and their children to offer support and help. We encourage kindness when we practice kindness. We can help others, even if just in small ways, just by showing kindness and compassion. Maybe not always, but often.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

IMHO

I think many of us are taking the OP's scenario too personally. As far as I know, everyone who posts on this message board practices Gentle Discipline. That means if it were our daughter at the game we would have tried gentle methods like getting down to her level and talking to her respectfully. Or giving her a hug and saying, "We both seem a little frustrated, let's take a deep breath together." If I saw someone who was treating their ranting child (you can substitute "ranting" for anything you'd wish) with love, kindness, and respect I would know there'd be no reason to say anything in an attempt to help. Instead, as I've said in a previous post, I have often congratulated parents on using gentle discipline methods. Every single one of those parents have given me a huge smile; glad that someone else has noticed how positive they try to be with their children.

However, in the OP's scenario, the mother was not using gentle discipline. She was using empty threats, : but mom said "Be quiet right now, no I don't want to hear what you have to say" and "So the dd gets mom to calm down enough ( ) and says "Mommy, please can I say something?" which she had been trying to do the whole time and mom says "WHAT?" "Sorry mama" and the mom had the nerve to say.... "sorry for what....?" (all this from the original post). So, there is a HUGE difference between someone using GD and still not having any luck, and a person using conventional "I'm the Parent, you're the Child" methods. Unsolicited advice is usually saved for the parents (people) who are flying off the handle.

Anyhow imho and i'm nak

~Nay


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loverlaydown*
I think what you really want to hear is "Oh, that mom can't parent effectively and needs you to intervene. You should definitely have said something." But unless you want a complete snow job, you won't hear it from me....or a few others who have already replied,imho.
I doubt that you are so perfect that you can start doling out parenting advice to perfect strangers.










Oh this is funny I'm just catching this... this kind of reminds me of that little thread that you posted about having a hospital birth similar to a homebirth. When you got replies that you didn't exactly agree with, you started _swearing_ at people. Of all the tacky things... no wonder the thread was _deleted_. Here you are asking for advice and ideas, and then you shun it when you don't get, to quote you, "what you really want to hear"









This is a commune for like-minded people or at least those that are willing to accept th opinions of others. I never said I didn't accept any of the replies, I mean sheesh all I was trying to do was get a conversationg going, not approval.







If you can't accept others without berating them, then why post?


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

awww michelemiller that is so sweet I would have been so thankful for that lady!







s


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AntoninBeGonin*
I think many of us are taking the OP's scenario too personally.....
Unsolicited advice is usually saved for the parents (people) who are flying off the handle.
~Nay


Right, I mean since this is a GD board I wouldn't expect anyone on here to correct a stranger using a GD tactic because they would in fact be using an approach that we here on this board deem proper. That's why I posted this here, not anywhere else.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AntoninBeGonin*
IMHO

I think many of us are taking the OP's scenario too personally. As far as I know, everyone who posts on this message board practices Gentle Discipline. That means if it were our daughter at the game we would have tried gentle methods like getting down to her level and talking to her respectfully. Or giving her a hug and saying, "We both seem a little frustrated, let's take a deep breath together." If I saw someone who was treating their ranting child (you can substitute "ranting" for anything you'd wish) with love, kindness, and respect I would know there'd be no reason to say anything in an attempt to help. Instead, as I've said in a previous post, I have often congratulated parents on using gentle discipline methods. Every single one of those parents have given me a huge smile; glad that someone else has noticed how positive they try to be with their children.

However, in the OP's scenario, the mother was not using gentle discipline. She was using empty threats, : but mom said "Be quiet right now, no I don't want to hear what you have to say" and "So the dd gets mom to calm down enough ( ) and says "Mommy, please can I say something?" which she had been trying to do the whole time and mom says "WHAT?" "Sorry mama" and the mom had the nerve to say.... "sorry for what....?" (all this from the original post). So, there is a HUGE difference between someone using GD and still not having any luck, and a person using conventional "I'm the Parent, you're the Child" methods. Unsolicited advice is usually saved for the parents (people) who are flying off the handle.

~Nay

I hear you, because I think I'm "right" too, and maybe one of the reasons some of us don't get corrected more is because we're not flying off the handle (or at least trying not to) left and right. BUT one point many pps were making is that even the Goddess of GD might, on a bad day, sound kind of not so nice if she's exhausted or on her last nerve and kinder methods are failing (or people are staring, and so on). And we never really know the whole story. What she's doing is *still wrong,* but it might not be fair to offer the less helpful and more judgmental form of "correction" when we have no idea how many hundreds of times she's dealt with this gently.

Also, I'm guessing we have all experienced people giving us advice, even if we're doing something "right." I've been told to let my child cry more hundreds of millions of times, it seems. So it's not like you have to really screw up to hear the unsolicited advice that makes some of us cringe. This latter instance of course doesn't apply to the op's situation, but I think it's a good example of how prevalent advising parents is, and why it's not always welcome or helpful.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sledg*
You know, I think so many moms feel that they're under a microscope out in public-that everyone around them is just staring and deciding whether or not they're a good mom based on the one incident that's happening. And you know, sometimes that is what's happening. And when you feel this way, you don't always parent at your best-you get embarrassed, you get flustered, you lose perspective, you don't feel creative, you're tense. It can feel so good, so liberating, so supportive for someone to just say "hey, I've been there. It happens. Kids do this." I would welcome this kind of comment any day. I try to offer this kind of support when I'm out and see other parents having a tough time. It's so important.

Exactly. This is what I think it really means when they say it takes a village, helping each other out with each other's kids, not TELLING each other what they should be doing. Evaluating other people's parenting, IMO, only leads to competition, like who can be the better mother and which way is the right way. I think this is why people feel so militant about their choices, especially spankers, because of this unspoken criticism that makes them extra-defensive. If we were all a little more tolerant, or at least supportive, I would bet that there are a lot of parents who would be a little gentler, at least in public. I mean, look at the puking story. We all act different in public, sometimes we can hardly help it.

And since the title of this thread is, "CORRECTING A STRANGER'S PARENTING TACTICS," not "Supporting another mom having a hard time with her child," I do think that was the original intent of the OP.


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah*
And since the title of this thread is, "CORRECTING A STRANGER'S PARENTING TACTICS," not "Supporting another mom having a hard time with her child," I do think that was the original intent of the OP.

Word. I mean.. "correcting?" That's the most holier-than-thou spew I've ever heard. It takes a special kind of person to think she's so great she can correct others in something like parenting. I think it's time to put down the parenting manual and get some fresh air!


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## loverlaydown (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunRayeMomi*








Oh this is funny I'm just catching this... this kind of reminds me of that little thread that you posted about having a hospital birth similar to a homebirth. When you got replies that you didn't exactly agree with, you started _swearing_ at people. Of all the tacky things... no wonder the thread was _deleted_. Here you are asking for advice and ideas, and then you shun it when you don't get, to quote you, "what you really want to hear"









This is a commune for like-minded people or at least those that are willing to accept th opinions of others. I never said I didn't accept any of the replies, I mean sheesh all I was trying to do was get a conversationg going, not approval.







If you can't accept others without berating them, then why post?


If I recall correctly, I called someone on the ugliness she displayed when I had asked a simple question. I didn't mind hearing something like,"Well, a hospital birth really can't be like a homebirth and here's why...". The person I called on was simply being hateful. That's what got me going. She *was*being a nasty negative you-know-what. FWIW, I did get some wonderful advice.
The title of this thread( "Correcting the parenting tactics of others....") says, to me anyway, that you-the OP-consider your parenting tactics to be superior to others. The trouble with that line of thinking is that while you and I and a million other parents might agree that GD is the way to go, not everyone will embrace that idea. I truly think the best way to influence others is to lead by example.
How would you feel if you were trying to practice GD and your kids just weren't buying into it...when all of a sudden someone stops and says,"Why don't you smack your child and tell him to shut up?" You'd be horrified,right? Maybe embarrassed. In shock? This person doesn't know you or your values or your standards. This person doesn't know that, for you, spanking is not an option. And yet he feels compelled to tell you how to parent.
Do you see the point I am making now?


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## loverlaydown (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boston*
Word. I mean.. "correcting?" That's the most holier-than-thou spew I've ever heard. It takes a special kind of person to think she's so great she can correct others in something like parenting. I think it's time to put down the parenting manual and get some fresh air!


ITA. I mean-how presumptive of someone to swoop down and correct the parenting skills of someone she doesn't even know?????


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## loverlaydown (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah*
Evaluating other people's parenting, IMO, only leads to competition, like who can be the better mother and which way is the right way. .

And aren't we, as mothers and as women, competitive enough as it is?


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loverlaydown*
And aren't we, as mothers and as women, competitive enough as it is?

Oh, hell yeah!
















~Nay


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## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

I think it's interesting that we feel inhibited about intervening on behalf of a child who is experiencing some emotional belittling or abuse.
I don't think a parent has a right to belittle/abuse a child. To say it's the parent's right to make mistakes with her child implies ownership of her child somehow. I am uncomfortable with that.

There are 4 child advocacy articles here (half-way down page) on Intervening on Behalf of a Child in a Public Place:

http://www.naturalchild.org/articles..._advocacy.html

One article addresses whether it is "our business" or not and another asks "one can we do?". The last two are great stories of interventions.

P.S. I also realize that I am operating on a opinion that belittling is abusive...


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## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

I am also guessing that it troubled the OP to see a child treated that way. Perhaps she wasn't trying to "correct" or tear apart the mama as much as support the child.
I think I want to hear more of her intent. Was she wanting to help rather than "correct"?


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ahappymel*
I think it's interesting that we feel inhibited about intervening on behalf of a child who is experiencing some emotional belittling or abuse.
I don't think a parent has a right to belittle/abuse a child. To say it's the parent's right to make mistakes with her child implies ownership of her child somehow. I am uncomfortable with that.

There are 4 child advocacy articles here (half-way down page) on Intervening on Behalf of a Child in a Public Place:

http://www.naturalchild.org/articles..._advocacy.html

One article addresses whether it is "our business" or not and another asks "one can we do?". The last two are great stories of interventions.

P.S. I also realize that I am operating on a opinion that belittling is abusive...

Thanks for the links!









~Nay


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## loverlaydown (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ahappymel*
I think it's interesting that we feel inhibited about intervening on behalf of a child who is experiencing some emotional belittling or abuse.
I don't think a parent has a right to belittle/abuse a child. To say it's the parent's right to make mistakes with her child implies ownership of her child somehow. I am uncomfortable with that.

There are 4 child advocacy articles here (half-way down page) on Intervening on Behalf of a Child in a Public Place:

http://www.naturalchild.org/articles..._advocacy.html

One article addresses whether it is "our business" or not and another asks "one can we do?". The last two are great stories of interventions.

P.S. I also realize that I am operating on a opinion that belittling is abusive...

Hi.I read the articles and they were sad..but i think that the content of those articles went beyond anything the OP is talking about. I think that we all have varying ideas as to what "belittling" and "abuse" is...For example, some people might view the phrase "Hurry up!"(when spoken to a child) to be belittling and abusive, while other parents may not-kwim?


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## IncaMama (Jun 23, 2004)

so loverlaydown, can you re-read the OP:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunRayeMomi*
I was at DD's soccer game and there was a couple there whose son is on dd's team, but who also has a 2-3 year old dd who comes to watch the game with mom and dad. Dad is assistant coach so he is off on the sidelines, and I talk casually to mom and her dd (who happens to look a lot like mine with bright blonde hair







) Anyway hers is usually quite well behaved but I think she was getting bored at this game. For some reason she hit mom and was whining, etc. Mom then proceeded to use many tactics that I myself have found ineffective, including:

"Apologize to me right now!"
"No, go sit in your own chair I don't want you on my lap anymore"
"If you don't apologize you can't go to the cider mill after the game with us"
"If you don't stop yelling I'm taking you to the car!"
"If you don't apologize right now I'm telling your dad!" (what?!)








Meanwhile the child was begging her mom to let her say something....but mom said "Be quiet right now, no I don't want to hear what you have to say"
"I am going to count to three...."
and so on for like 15 minutes, and I could tell that mom was getting embarrassed and just wanted the girl to please SHUTUP! as if she was on the brink of screaming at her, and the whole time I just wanted to offer a polite and sincere suggestion SOOOOOO badly, because I have used these lines before and have since found ways that work better for us. But that would be totally inappropriate right, since unsolicited advice is never welcome, is it? It was torture having to listen to this!
So the dd gets mom to calm down enough (







) and says "Mommy, please can I say something?" which she had been trying to do the whole time and mom says "WHAT?" "Sorry mama" and the mom had the nerve to say.... "sorry for what....?" I think this mom could have benefitted from some advice from someone (but I didn't have the guts to give it). Just to show her that there are ways to deal without using empty threats.









and use THIS EXAMPLE? this is more than "hurry up". in THIS case, is it enough? do you see this as warranting anything? your original mantra was to mind your own business no matter what...now you seem to be softening that a little bit...so with that new softness, what do you think?


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loverlaydown*
I think that we all have varying ideas as to what "belittling" and "abuse" is...For example, some people might view the phrase "Hurry up!"(when spoken to a child) to be belittling and abusive, while other parents may not-kwim?









:

I've seen the term "abuse" used quite loosely.


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## punkwoman1982 (Oct 7, 2005)

I personally would not have said anything because i have had days with my kids where i was just exhasperated on what to do with them b/c my normal disapline was just not working (I use the 123 magic tactics) sometimes my kids are just having an of day too. unless i see someone abusing their childeren i don't intervene no matter how mch i would like to. and believe me sometimes i really want to say something! so i think did the right thing in that situation. I am sorry for some of the things ppl r saying to u and i am not trying to be rude in anyway.


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## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

Some might feel that it is inappropriate and disrepectful to talk to a child in a belittling and threatening way while others view it as emotional abuse.
I feel that if it ultimately wears down and destroys a child's self-esteem it is abusive.
I realize that not everyone feels this way. Rather than focus on how we each define abuse as parents, let's look at the effects on the children. That gives us a clearer picture of what cuts and what builds.
I know we all have bad days but those are especially the days when some gently intervention and empathy helps the most. I don't like being "corrected" or chastised by a stranger, but as article 2 of the link I previously posted pointed out, there are ways to offer intervention that helps both parent and child.


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## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

I agree that we don't want to promote "competitiveness" among moms...but this is really about some empathy and gently intervention when another mom is exasperated and a child is being humiliated and put-down/pushed-away.
I see that as helping in a more of a tribal way than competition.
I know the other person might not take it that way, but perhaps they might...


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by natensarah
And since the title of this thread is, "CORRECTING A STRANGER'S PARENTING TACTICS," not "Supporting another mom having a hard time with her child," I do think that was the original intent of the OP.

Word. I mean.. "correcting?" That's the most holier-than-thou spew I've ever heard. It takes a special kind of person to think she's so great she can correct others in something like parenting. I think it's time to put down the parenting manual and get some fresh air!
Whoa whoa whoa people, the title is just intended to give you an idea of what the post may be about.... Stop taking it so literally! I intended this post as a DISCUSSION, so SETTLE DOWN! I truly hope you aren't inadvertantly assuming I think that I am "holier-than-thou" because I've said it it seems like a MILLION times that this is a DISCUSSION, not me searching for absolution! SHEESH!


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## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

May I ask you, SunRayeMomi, would you tell me why you wanted to intervene?
It seems some posters are assuming that you were being righteous whereas I am assuming you were in protective/empathetic mode.
If you can tell us, I think it would clarify a lot.
Why did you want to intervene?


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut*
Also, I'm guessing we have all experienced people giving us advice, even if we're doing something "right." I've been told to let my child cry more hundreds of millions of times, it seems. So it's not like you have to really screw up to hear the unsolicited advice that makes some of us cringe. This latter instance of course doesn't apply to the op's situation, but I think it's a good example of how prevalent advising parents is, and why it's not always welcome or helpful.

Oh absolutely. But there's no reason why you can't turn the tables on the well-meaning but obviously unenlightened person and explain some GD to them while you're both there having conversation.









I must not have a mommy microscope. I was running while pushing the buggy at wal*mart tonight. Ds thought it was a blast. (Don't worry--the aisle was empty)









~Nay


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ahappymel*
May I ask you, SunRayeMomi, would you tell me why you wanted to intervene?

Hello









Well, I think I've answered this question quite a few times, but I will again because maybe you didn't read all the posts. I know the other posters did though, since they have been replying to this thread since it's beginning







Why they don't believe my replies is beyond me. They took everything I said in the first post quite seriously, but after that they stopped listening. This post was only intended to start a discussion. That's it. It seems if people will take every word I use personally, next time I post a topic I should PM everyone on MDC first to make sure they agree with my choice of words, that way no one will be confused or take them different than I had intended....? I dunno.... I'm kind of exhausted with this.

As for your question, I was just asking everyone here to share their stories or opinions of situations similar to this that they have been in. I know most people have been at the store or somewhere and either had someone come up to them during their child's tantrum, or wanted to offer support for someone else. And it looks I was right: I'm not the only one out there who feels funny when they see this going on. I didn't want to _correct_ her, but I do wish there was a polite way to help a mom out in a sit like this. I got a lot of good ideas, but some people think there is a way and some people don't. Mostly I tend to just keep my opinions to myself (to err on the side of politeness). I post my opinions here to get them off my chest. KWIM?

When I posted "correcting..." I didn't think the term would be picked apart. In fact, if you think about it, no one did pick it apart until way into the discussion. So why now? I am feeling like _I_ am being picked apart. That's not fair, I didn't attack anyone in my OP so why do they attack me? Am I being oversensitive? I am glad for the discussion. But I guess this is what happens when a person introduces a thought-provoking subject. They get slammed


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

I've returned this thread for discussion. I want to remind everyone that:

1. harsh, attacking, adversarial posting is inappropriate
2. calling a member "troll" or trollish is inappropriate
3. posting in a personally pointed manner, discussing the individual rather than the topic, is inappropriate.

Some posts will be removed if not edited.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

I keep thinking about this thread, and I'm glad it's back because I think this is an important topic.

I think that when we see someone doing something that is harming, or is likely to harm, another person we might have an obligation to speak up-to intervene on behalf of that person. If we all went around just minding our own business, nothing in this world would ever change and it would remain just as violent as ever.

That said, I think we also have an obligation to keep a few things in mind as we speak up (assuming the situation is not an emergency, like an obvious beating, but rather a gray area-what many would see as a matter of parenting styles or choices). I think we have an obligation to be aware of the fact that we very rarely know the whole story-there's usually plenty of information we don't know regarding the people involved and their circumstances. I think we have an obligation to attempt to understand why the person we're about to speak to may be doing what they're doing-for the simple reason that a problem cannot be solved until we understand what is causing it. We have an obligation to remember that the person we are about to speak to is more than the sum of their (perceived) faults, that they are in fact fully human and deserving of the respect that simply being human demands. We have an obligation to remember that we cannot change a person's parenting, and the lifetime of learning and cultural messages that created it, in a single encounter. (In fact, all we can do is be a positive influence in some way-we can't change anyone else.) We need to remember that though we believe fervently in something, our beliefs and ways of doing things may not be the only correct ways or beliefs even when we can't imagine how this could be. We don't know everything.

(edited for clarity) I think that if we want to help others, the best way to do it is to cultivate within ourselves real, sincere compassion for our fellow parents. To cutivate within ourselves the willingness to offer others sincere kindness and to cultivate the willingness to offer real help in a sincere and humble manner when we see a need. A hand carrying things, a kind word of encouragement or sympathy-from the heart, one human being to another.

I will end my thoughts here with my favorite quote: _"When you plant lettuce, if it does not grow well, you don't blame the lettuce. You look into the reasons it is not doing well. It may need fertilizer, or more water, or less sun. You never blame the lettuce. Yet if we have problems with our friends or our family, we blame the other person. But if we know how to take care of them, they will grow well, like lettuce. Blaming has no positive effect at all, nor does trying to persuade using reason and arguments. That is my experience. No blame, no reasoning, no argument, just understanding. If you understand, and you show that you understand, you can love, and the situation will change."_-Thich Nhat Hanh


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cynthia Mosher*
I've returned this thread for discussion.


Thanks and to everyone:


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunRayeMomi*
When I posted "correcting..." I didn't think the term would be picked apart. In fact, if you think about it, no one did pick it apart until way into the discussion. So why now? I am feeling like _I_ am being picked apart. That's not fair, I didn't attack anyone in my OP so why do they attack me? Am I being oversensitive? I am glad for the discussion. But I guess this is what happens when a person introduces a thought-provoking subject. They get slammed









Sara, I'm sorry if my post offended you. But please don't take it personally! I was simply stating MY reaction to what you wrote. I don't know you, I may not have gotten your full tone and intention, and I meant no offense. And you did introduce a thought-provoking subject, which I'm glad you did. Thanks!


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## sophsmom (Jun 15, 2004)

This is a very interesting discussion. It's so hard to know where "the line" is between being supportive vs criticizing... especially when you don't agree with the parenting style.


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah*
Sara, I'm sorry if my post offended you. But please don't take it personally! I was simply stating MY reaction to what you wrote. I don't know you, I may not have gotten your full tone and intention, and I meant no offense. And you did introduce a thought-provoking subject, which I'm glad you did. Thanks!









no problem, I think the next post after yours which called my wording "holier-than-thou-spew" offended me much more than your just bringing it to the table.


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## daekini (Jun 17, 2004)

my .02:

i think that if you're cringing with the need to do _something_ the best thing to do is offer support to the mother. Like a pp or the op said - i can't remember who - she may have just been having one of those days. I'd have given the mom a meek smile that said something like "i've been in your shoes before" - if she opens up for dialogue in response to that implied invitation, then go for it.

[nak, btw]


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Ok, I have to ask what does "nak" mean? I have tried guessing for days now.









Thanks immensely.

Curious,

Pat


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Nursing At Keyboard, Pat


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunRayeMomi*
Has anyone felt compelled to offer advice to a stranger?

Yes, but only about babywearing!









Quote:

How does it make you feel when you see something like this go down right next to you? Have you ever considered offering advice and why?
When I was a newer mom (when DD1 was under a year), I thought such situations were horrible, and never could understand how parents could treat a DC (or anyone) like that.

Fast forward to having 2 children . . .now I still feel horrible in those situations, and even more so, because I know I've had moments like that with MY DC. . . .and it pains me to see what the receiving end looks like! I use those moments as reminders and teaching moments-- for myself. I think what pps said about starting a conversation, not even about discipline-- just something to help the mom regain herself, would REALLY help me if I were the mom. That's what I'm going to aim for in that situation.


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## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

I am not sure there is any way to offer advice without it being transparent. I know if I had been the mom having the off day (so very very many days that is me....) any attempt by a stranger, aquaintance, or someone closer would have only added to my stress and embarassment. Maybe it is just me, but particularly if someone tried to 'diffuse' by interacting with my child I would be livid, as I would interpret that as the person trying to 'save' my child from me- not allowed in my book.

And changing roles here, if I was the person witnessing the ineffective parenting, I would just physically remove myself from the area, particularly if it was a situation and/or reactions by the other adult and/or child that I did not want my own children witness to. They learn so much by example! Most especially the undesireable behaviors







I myself have learned that nobody cares- people are going to do it their way, and nothing I am going to say will ever change their mind. And even that most times being a good example only makes people think I am condemning *their* lifestyle by the way I live my own


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
I'd have only added to my stress and embarassment. Maybe it is just me, but particularly if someone tried to 'diffuse' by interacting with my child I would be livid, as I would interpret that as the person trying to 'save' my child from me- not allowed in my book.

I wouldn't like someone to interact with my child either, in that situation. I love it when someone interacts with ME, though, to diffuse the situation.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I can see why that would be equally aggravating. What about if it's in a playflul manner? I haven't really done it, but I've discovered people playing peekaboo with son while he was whining in line or something. It wasn't a stressful situation, but they were sort of "helping" so to speak.

I will chime in that the general question "can I help?" has felt inherently condescending to me, when there's not really any specific way to "help," like carry a bag or something. Someone did that once when I wasn't even yelling, just speaking firmly because I had to get dressed in the locker room and he could not be distracted or persuaded to stay by me, and it sort of made me feel like she thought I was about to hit my kid or something. Her intention might have been good, but I didn't like it.


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

I was at the park with dd and was having a conversation with one of the mom's there. Her son swatted my daughter (I'm sure she's fine..), so she pulled him over to reprimand him.. okay, none of my business so no big deal. Then he ran off to play again. She turned to me and said "I almost forgot we are in public right now, I came so close to smacking his butt right then!" I smiled and said "yeah, I think some people don't like to see that" (I didn't say _me_). Then she went on to say, "yeah, what is that though? People wonder why the jails are so full but _I_ know it's because kids don't get spanked enough."








uh. That pretty much ended our conversation. I didn't say anything, but I made myself preoccupied with dd and then left shortly after.

My opinion: Where does she think her son learned that behaviour? Duh?


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Are you baiting me? No way would I have left her opinion the *only one* voiced. What if a man had said that about women? I'd have chewed his ear off.

Pat, Gladys Cravitz


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Sometimes it's hard to know what to say when you're shocked. Especially if you're not comfortable being confrontational. I've been in a similar situation (she was talking about slapping hands) and I didn't know what the hell to say. It's a lot easier to think something up later.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I'd say something like "Wow! I am shocked to hear you say that! I believe hitting people teaches them that hitting is ok." Or, "Wow, we don't hit people in our family!" Or, "I think it sad when people hit children, don't you?"

Or, the least confrontational but emphatic responsive I have heard suggested is to look the speaker directly in the eye for several seconds and say Nothing. To Pause..... and let what they just said to hang in the air but with direct wide eyed disbelief. And then to say 'excuse me' and disengage.

Pat


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## Wugmama (Feb 10, 2005)

Some months back when I was about 10 weeks pg and suffering morning sickness, my 3 year old dd and I traveled to FL. In the airport for our return trip I was desperately trying to get something to eat before getting on the flight, was feeling like puking, running late (we ended up being the LAST to board) and very irritable. While in line my dd "disappeared". She was right underneath/behind me if you know what I mean. I freaked, started screaming for her, and when I saw that she was right behind me started yelling at her. Then when I got our food I started walking away, and turned around to see her about 12 feet behind me. Again I started screaming at her to come on. Some kind woman knelt down by my daughter, turned her in my directions, pointed me out to her and gently told her to go to me. I am so ashamed of that moment I can barely recall out without crying, and I am grateful to that woman for being so kind to my daughter at that moment. I wish I could thank her and tell her I am usually a much better mom. I wonder what she thinks of me.

Recently I was in target and while walking with my cart after paying saw a girl who looked about 3 fall off a bench and end up lying close to the wall with her head bent up, crying. Her mother didn't even help her, just said coldly, "you are ok, just get up! You need to stop playing around!". Other people were looking on as well as it looked pretty bad. I said in a loud voice, "She doesn't LOOK like she is ok!" and kept walking.







Then I sat in the snack bar with my husband and dd and quietly cried while I ate me food (the pg hormones) because I felt so bad for the little girl and angry at the mom. I don't know her situation. I decided later if I ever ran into that same situation I would simply kneel down by the child and help them up. After all, if I saw a mother who had fallen and was hurt, I would stop and help her. If I saw a child who was alone and had fallen and was hurt, I would help her. Why shouldn't I help a child who had fallen and was hurt just because her mother wouldn't help her? Maybe the mother would appreciate it that someone was kind to her child when she was at the end of her rope that day and couldn't be.

It is hard to know what to do.

~Tracy


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunRayeMomi*
My opinion: Where does she think her son learned that behaviour? Duh?

Before I had children, this is what my mom told me. She told me that children hit because they were hit. Uh . . .NO, mom, you are wrong! My DD has hit us on occasion, and she has never been hit!

This mom probably does spank, but I'm just putting it out there that sometimes things come out as instinct (or emotion?) vs. being taught.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wugmama*
Some kind woman knelt down by my daughter, turned her in my directions, pointed me out to her and gently told her to go to me. I am so ashamed of that moment I can barely recall out without crying, and I am grateful to that woman for being so kind to my daughter at that moment. I wish I could thank her and tell her I am usually a much better mom. I wonder what she thinks of me.

That you were overwhelmed and needed help to get back in control of the situation.


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## Sherra (Jun 27, 2005)

Sara,

I know this thread has been ...well ...a little rough on you but I wish to thank you a lot for posting it. I got alot out of it (the posts that were constructive). I for sure would step in if I thought something was out of hand. What this thread made me think is how to do it in a more positive manner, especially given your scenerio which I accept as hypothetical as you asked us. I have never been one to stay off to the side if I thought I saw some abuse. I refuse to look the other way if I see a woman being berated, I wouldn't do it because it's a child. I'm not a busy body and I am the type to let people live as they see fit, to a point. If they are in public, they open themselves up to public scrutiny. The parent has to realize that. Sure, I would plan to do it very nicely and do it in as much of a non offensive manner as I could. This thread gave me nice ideas to bounce around in my head..so thank you all for your constructive input. I have often made non threatening comments to rather hyper children when I can see the parents getting embarrassed and I say...oh neat..a spirited gal like I used to be..and I can see the parent's shoulders just relax and chuckle. Opens the door wide open. I've yet to have a parent take offense and if one would...that seems a bit isolationist and a bit presumptuous to me since it's not presented as offensive.

I do think we should not look the other way when an opportunity presents itself to strike up a conversation that might change someone's life. To those so easily defensive about this, maybe it's a good opportunity to reflect a little and become more open that your way is not the only way...and sometimes it's kinda good to see some concern from other people when they see your situation. Isolationism has it's drawbacks imo if we all sit back and "do nothing and look the other way". I'm not naming any names of course..I don't need to...I think these types of threads are ingenius for us to look within to see how we can make the world better. Our actions every day either make the world a better place, or make it worse off.


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