# Low carbs making you crazy???



## 2+twins (Apr 20, 2004)

Am I the only one who has had it with this low carb craze? If I see one more low carb sign or commercial I think I'm going to go balistic!!! Have you seen the new Coke C2??? Ridiculous! Personally I love my carbs and don't think it's healthy to take your diet to extremes like that. Ugh! Just had to vent....


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## lillian (Dec 13, 2003)

i cannot stand this low carb kick. and dh hates the term 'carb' and i think that most people dont even know the word is carbohydrate...

i will not buy anything that says low carb on it. i flat out refuse.

why dont people just watch their sugar and calorie intake??


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

I can't stand it either. They just did a study I think in Germany that is now linking the low carb thing to fertility issues! One more reason for me not to do it!







: I have done an Atkins like thing and it totally sucks! I LOVE bread and pasta just too much!


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

add me to the list!


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## plum (Mar 7, 2003)

yes yes yes! i am so sick of this! whatever happened to watching what you ate and exercizing? you know it's not a healthy diet if pork rinds are an acceptable snack but, like, carrots aren't.

dh and i were at target yesterday and i saw... low-carb cheetos. if you are trying to lose weight, why are you eating cheetos?

i can't stand seeing or hearing the word 'carb', either. it's carbohydrate!


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## Unreal (Dec 15, 2002)

wait wait wait
don't forget

it's healthy to watch your 'carb' intake.
So drink SODA
with half the Added Sugar replaced with an Artifical Sweetner
(and of course this is for the people who can't stand the diet soda taste...)


















After all
it's the healthy choice!










yeah, I'm pretty sick of it
low carb ice cream
low carb peanut butter
low carb bread


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## mshollyk (Sep 24, 2002)

UGH! NO MORE LOW CARB CRAP! it's *exactly* the same as the fat-free thing a few years ago.








:


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## glitterbits333 (Nov 17, 2003)

I must chime in on this one.

Every time I shop for groceries somewhere other than our co-op, I hear at least 4 or 5 store-wide announcements about some low-carb option that is newly available. There are bright blue signs all over the produce department as well, announcing which veggies are 'carb-smart.' Now I can't even buy a head of cabbage without being attacked with the carb nonsense. Stop the insanity!


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## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

These low-carb menus at restaurants really get me. Why not just title it "high fat menu"? Oh, yeah, that's right, we're not counting that anymore, it's carbs. Sheesh.

I actually thought about trying the C2 because I am Coke-addicted but get an insulin response to diet drinks with aspartame as badly as with sugar drinks. I've cut way back on the sodas but still like an occasional Coke, but I don't like the blood sugar/insulin effect I get with them.


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## Celtain (Mar 10, 2004)

ME ME ME ME!!!!!!!

You are singing my song!!!!!!!! I am so sick of the whole low carb, no carb thing. I was in the store yesterday and say a mayo display and on the label it said still 0 carbs. I came home and checked on a jar of mayo in my fridge just to make sure they didn't change it!!!!! LOLOLOLOL


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I don't eat many carbs, but I eat a whole foods diet, so these ridiculous products drive me crazy. People feel empowered to eat a whole new category of crap.


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## FrugalMomof2 (Jun 14, 2004)

I also can't stand the fact that every other commercial on TV and every magazine is carb this and carb that. I appreciate the fact though that they do have low carb foods out now for my sake because I am hypoglycemic and can't have a lot of refined sugars but also think they're going too far with some of it.


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

I love carbs, just love em, and can eat pasta twice a day, everyday if given the choice.

Then i decided to lower my carb intake, in an effort to loose my middle.....and it does work, but i am realizing that it just cant be good to lower your carbs so severely. I mean, balanced is the way to go, and i am slowly introducing more carbs into my diet again.

I think moderation is the key. I mean, if i am gonna eat a 18oz porterhouse steak, how can just eating spinach be "OK"? so to make myself feel better i had a loaded baked potato and a strawberry margarita.....


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I think it's stupid. I'm just afraid that someday "carbs" are going to be illegal!









I love pasta and bread, and I also eat sugar. I don't see anything wrong with trying to eat less sugar, but when I do decide to cut down I don't fill in the blanks with diet sodas or crap like that; I go for more REAL FOOD!

I also wonder whatever happened to regular exercise and portion control, but I guess we are all looking for a "faster" way to get what we want.


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## flutemandolin (Nov 20, 2001)

Ugh, YES!!!







I'm beginning to think it's more of a marketing craze than a consumer-driven thing. It's dumbed-down nutrition at its worst; so many of the "low-carb" items are overly processed, how can they be good for you?


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## kimberlylibby (Dec 28, 2003)

What's wrong guys?

You don't like refined, over-processed, "fake" food?

And I thought this was the "un"natural living community.

Oops.

Kimberly


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## Icequeen_in_ak (Mar 6, 2004)

Yes... I'm fed up... but probably because my DH has been on Atkins for the last year or so. I'm so sick of trying to find ways to feed him... feed my child and then me. I refuse to do such diets.... I just don't think they are healthy. I stick to well balanced healthy foods (with the occasional jump from the wagon to the dark side.... the ice cream isle).

I'm just sick of my DH spending sooooo much money on this crap.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

It makes me crazy. I was at a pizza place and they had a low carb special - it was a crustless pizza. They put the sauce on a plate, and layered it with meat and cheese!

I don't mean to diminish the struggle that some people have with weight, but please. It's calories in vs. calories out. There is no magic formula - never has been, never will be.

Of course you lose weight when you cut out all carbs - cut out any major food group and you'll lose weight. And then you'll gain it all back when you add it back into your diet, just like my SIL keeps doing. It makes me crazy I tell you!

One of dh's best friends is on the a low carb diet. We spent the weekend with him - he ate steak, cheese, fried foods, and more meat. He even fried up the previous night's steak for breakfast, topped with cheese! But he wouldn't eat the salad because the salad dressing had some carbs in it.


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## glitterbits333 (Nov 17, 2003)

Quote:

LowNuts, the new Low-Carb Doughnuts!! We've taken out the carbs you're addicted to, and replaced them with NEW and IMPROVED food coloring, preservatives and assorted other chemical goodness! That fake taste you love, but better!!
Whoa, I got a little carried away there! Another thing that I've been seeing lately; milk is now being touted as the next weight-loss miracle, at least around here. Fancy cartons talking about shedding the pounds with milk, and blah blah blah.

Give me a break.


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## caytlyn (Jul 28, 2002)

I've seen "carb" smart milk...







:


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## glitterbits333 (Nov 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oceanbaby*
It makes me crazy. I was at a pizza place and they had a low carb special - it was a crustless pizza. They put the sauce on a plate, and layered it with meat and cheese!


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## mahdokht (Dec 2, 2002)

I don't eat artificial food. If it's naturally low in fat (like strawberries), sugar (like chicken) or carbs (like mayonnaise) that's fine but I like my milk full fat, my apples full sugar and my bread FULL CARB!


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

I've seen "carb" smart milk
Caytlyn, I have too....but its high in fat! It has extra cream or something, upping the fat content!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

And what the HELL is LOW CARB BREAD?!


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

GB, have you tried it? kinda tastes like carboard.....


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

DH and I are both sick of this. I swear if I hear another ad start with "watching your carbs? Well the new...." I'll scream, right there in the grocery store.

Remember a while back there was a Jack-In-The-Box commercial, asking people what they wanted in a burger (a room full of men) and they said "meat and cheese" and something about not needing a bun...well, it is reality now.

Every time we go to the store, we throw high-carbohydrate foods into the cart with a happy "uh oh - CARBS!" spoken incredulously like a radio commercial we heard a while back. We're balanced-diet kind of people and won't be going on any of these diets any time soon.


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## rubysmomjess (Apr 23, 2004)

UGH... I hate this fad (atleast I hope that what this is). Don't eat apples 'cause they're high in carbs...that sounds like great diet to me. Don't eat heathly fruit and vegetables, eat meat and fat and yuck.

What about a fad where you ate small portions and then went for a walk!

I love my carbs... pasta, bread, fruits and veggies...yum!

ETA: My dh wanted to try this and I said fine but he would have to cook for himself ( I don't cook hamburger, bacon, etc). It lasted like a week and he said he felt terrible the whole time


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## mountain (Dec 12, 2001)

Yes, yes, it's so nice to have "Gout" around as a prevalent disease again...nothing like bringing medieval diseases back to life...

Oh, and the constipation that comes from only eating protein sources, that should make America a kinder, gentler nation...Happy Ketosis!

My only reaction to yet another stupid fad diet is that the stupid die young. People who follow this fad to the extreme will take years off their lives by not eating the foods that bring health & vitality. We as a country should be growing more fruits & veg to feed the world, not raising excess numbers of livestock that the land can't support.


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## flutemandolin (Nov 20, 2001)

I wonder if there's any connection between the "craze"







and the jump in price of items like milk, eggs, and meat. I'm borderline anemic and I was craving a good steak the other day but yikes, I can't afford it!









I have to laugh when my boss goes out to Burger King or Subway to spend a few dollars a day on their "low carb" offerings, while I sit there feasting on home grown salad and leftover spinach lasagna that didn't cost me anything extra. He thinks he's the one eating healthy.


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## Alkenny (May 4, 2004)

My 27 year old cousin lost ALOT of weight on Atkins...he also jump started his kidney disease from it. Grr!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Personally, I'd rather be a little overweight than give up food I like. Maybe if I were really obese, I'd do Atkins, but now? No way!

A few years ago when everyone at my workplace was doing Atkins, I decided to give it a try even though I was only 10 lbs overweight. I did it for 2 days, lost 2 lbs, but it was so not worth it. I was really jittery. Everyone told me if I could just stick with it for a week I wouldn't notice the jitters anymore, but I just said why bother. I can lose weight the old-fashioned way.

I'm about 30 lbs overweight now (but at only 5 weeks postpartum, maybe it doesn't count!) and starting to feel desperate, but still not enough to do Atkins.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Add me to the list. Yesterday at our homeschool group some of the mamas started talking about it and how fast you can loose (hahaha just kidding)LOSE weight that way. I had to get up at and walk away. I am so SICK of hearing about freaking low carb aaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh.







:


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## Avonlea (Jan 21, 2002)

I am going to join the club.

My husband has been doing 'atkins' on and off for the last 2 years almost. He goes 'off the wagon' every 5 or 6 months for a few weeks, gains the weight back..then starts up all over again.

I refuse to cook all the meat he 'has' to have with this 'diet'. Watching him do this to himself makes me sick. Going to McDonalds and eating the meat patties out of a double cheeseburger along with a side salad of iceberg lettuce and some shredded carrots does NOT equal a healthy meal in the real world, last time I checked. However, if you are a 'carb-counter' this is great thing! ICK!!

I hate the gimmicky 'low-carb' products, ice cream that leaves a skum of ? on your spoon and your tongue. Brownies that taste like chocolate covered sawdust. Tortilla shells and wraps that are dry and awful unless covered with something and warmed up..and even then are hardly edible. Low carb pizza that is notyhing but a glorified cracker with pizza toppings on it.

These foods cost A LOT of money, the ingrediants used to make them are made in a lab somewre, they taste icky, and only one person in the house will eat them. Talk about wasteful.

And any 'diet' that tells you that APPLES or CARROTS are not good for you????HUH!????? So, sorry, no apples, no baked potatoes..no fruit except berries or grapefruit. Makes SOOO much sense to me, really.









I am sick and tired of the whole thing. I refuse to have ANY part in it. I abhor it. My husband is going to die young if he keeps this up, and there is nothing I can do..I am forced to sit back and watch him do it to himself. Good thing he has a $300,000.00 life insurance policy so the house will be paid for and the kids can go to school.


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## isosmom (Apr 23, 2004)

So so so tired of it. Can I go anywhere w/o people talking about carbs?
MIL follows a lo-carb diet and is visiting next week, but she hangs that on the door when she comes to my house. In my house it's carbs or starve!


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## weebitty2 (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetbaby3*
GB, have you tried it? kinda tastes like carboard.....

Not all of them do!

Arnold's light low-carb rye is REALLY good .. And for the most part, I don't know who else has noticed this though ..

Low-carb bread really isn't low in carbohydrates? On average they bump up the fiber really HIGH (10g/2 slices for the arnold), then shrink it to about 2/3 the size of a normal slice of bread.

So tell me ... how is making it smaller reducing the amount of carbohydrates in it? lol


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
I don't eat many carbs, but I eat a whole foods diet, so these ridiculous products drive me crazy. People feel empowered to eat a whole new category of crap.









Yep... as long as it has Splenda it's okay. Ick, I say. I also don't eat many carbs (for my own, personal health reasons), but I don't eat any of that "low-carb" crud. It's so not healthy.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

...


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## be11ydancer (Dec 2, 2003)

My DH told me the other day that he was reading about a new low carb...

... Are you ready for this? ...

POTATO. A low carb potato. uke

How much genetic engineering did scientists have to do to come up with that?!


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## Parthenia (Dec 12, 2001)

I LOVE the Low Carb Craze and let me count the ways:

Pasta at the grocery store yesterday was 10 boxes for $4.00!!! Because no one's eating it. More for me!!! yayyy! I can also find whole wheat pasta in the regular grocery store too!

Sprouted wheat bread, which is naturally lower in carbs and more to the point delicious, flavorful, and higher in fiber than the fake whole wheat crap you see at the regular grocery stores is now available at the regular grocery stores.

Better produce selection because fruits and veggies are low carb.

93% lean ground beef thanks to South Beach. Sadly I've lost my taste for red meat, but it was nice while it lasted.

Bigger cheese selection in the grocery stores. I love cheese!

Frozen pizza is cheaper because no one is buying it. MOre for me!

Potatoes are cheaper and sweet potatoes are more widely available.

What I'm totally sick of is the "Atkins Friendly" logo on everything including toilet paper. Atkins is known as Fatkins in our house.

To be honest, I did the South Beach Diet, and lost weight. Of all the ketogenic diets I liked how the book discussed the glycemic index of foods. I am a sugarholic, and it helped curb my sweet tooth. I started eating more fresh whole foods, took walks at lunch, etc. I also liked the emphasis on wholesome foods. I also found that I was horribly constipated during phase 1, so I added much more fiber in my diet, and never gave up coffee.
When I found out I was pg I put the book away, because potato chips help my morning sickness, and I obeyed my craving for more pasta and crackers. The book did help me make better choices, even for the carbs.

What bothers me most about this current diet craze is that they are making crappy unhealthy food seem good for you. But OTOH they did the same thing when low fat was the thing to do. Remember when everything became fat free (and they didn't mention it was full of partially hydrogenated oil)? Remember Olestra????







This too shall pass when the next big thing comes along.


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## kate42 (Feb 2, 2003)

You know it's out of hand when Burger King has a low carb menu.

I, for one, eat a buttload of carbohydrates and am proud of it!


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Parthenia*
I LOVE the Low Carb Craze and let me count the ways:

Pasta at the grocery store yesterday was 10 boxes for $4.00!!! Because no one's eating it. More for me!!! yayyy! I can also find whole wheat pasta in the regular grocery store too!

The down side of this is that my favorite independent bread bakery just went out of business.









Quote:

To be honest, I did the South Beach Diet, and lost weight. Of all the ketogenic diets I liked how the book discussed the glycemic index of foods. I am a sugarholic, and it helped curb my sweet tooth.








I did the first two weeks (much better than Atkins, IMO, as it encourages you to eat veggies during that period) and my formerly ultra-insatiable sweet tooth is MUCH better. Definitely a good thing.


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## JesseMomme (Apr 6, 2002)

:LOL I've been meaning to start a post like this and just keep forgetting! I've had it up to my eyeballs with low carb this and low carb that. This country is going to have a bad low carb hangover soon. Now I know how my Dad felt back in the 80's during the "Oat Bran Craze".

Gimme my bread and pasta!!







:LOL


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## JesseMomme (Apr 6, 2002)

I wanted to clarify, since I haven't read the thread but there's probably a bit of bantering back and forth on the pros and cons of Atkins...
My Mom did a low-carb diet a few years ago and the results were dramatic. Then slowly the weight crept back on when there were several stressful things going on in her life. Now she has a balanced diet and exercises, even jogs, every single day and is at the lowest wieght she's been at in 20 years. I think what she's done now as apposed the carb-addict diet is much better on her body.
I also think that eating less pasta or whatever is fine. But all the "low-carb" foods all over the market has me suspicious...can they 'really' be that good for you?


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

ftr, the potato is not genetically engineered, just good ol' hybridization.

just out of curiosity, why does an ad for 'low-carb' food annoy you more than say, ads for suvs? i mean, *all* ads are annoying... but the hostility, *shrugs* i don't get it. certainly rant all you want, i'm no censor. (my guess is you all bought the rapidly plummeting krispy kreme stock, lol.)

suse


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

I figure it will pass like the weight watchers fad in the 70;s I know WW does a lot of people a lot of good but I remember
You couldn't turn on a tv or radio or pick up a newspaper or magazine in our area without the WW splashed everywhere..


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## 2+twins (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *suseyblue*
just out of curiosity, why does an ad for 'low-carb' food annoy you more than say, ads for suvs? i mean, *all* ads are annoying... but the hostility, *shrugs* i don't get it. certainly rant all you want, i'm no censor. (my guess is you all bought the rapidly plummeting krispy kreme stock, lol.)

suse

It bothers me b/c there's nothing wrong with carbs (I'm not saying there is or isn't with any other mass marketed product - just that there isn't with carbs). It bugs me to no end that people buy into this crap hook line & sinker w/o thinking or caring about the consequences. Common sense (and years of nutritionist's research) says that a _varied_ and well-balanced diet combined with exercise is the healthy way to live and dare I say, even to loose weight. The marketing is so out there - like pp's have mentioned - now we can be healthy by drinking this soda and eating these cheetos because, hey - they have low carbs and low carbs are the way of the future! It's just too stupid for me to believe!


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## MamaOui (Aug 9, 2002)

Parthenia, your post cracks me up







: My mother has lost 40+ pounds on the Atkins and if she keeps it up, she may lose the ONE kidney that she has. I keep telling her that she better not come crying to me for a kidney when the damage is done. I have to laugh or I'll cry.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Another thing that sucks is you never know how to cook for someone. Like, our landlords went out of their way to fix something for us, so we thought we'd bake them something (they got us a brand new stove) but now I don't know if they are THOSE kind of people.

And birthday parties are really starting to suck now, when the cakes are made with aspartame and some weird flour!


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## Gidget (Aug 31, 2002)

I must admit, I tried Atkins once. It was like 5 years ago. Before low carb was ALL the craze. Funny how long it took it to be "the" diet. It made me sick and I stopped. Looking back now I wonder what kind of moron I was to eat all the bacon, eggs and steak I wanted.


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

I love carbs!!!

(I'm eating toast and drinking beer, bwa-hahahahah!)

AND I had pasta for dinner!


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## shershine (Feb 23, 2003)

Yes! I work at a bookstore and not only do we have the low-carb display of books and accessories but we feature low-carb candy and chai tea! And I HATE when foods already low in carbs naturally, are labeled "low-carb". I remember when the low-fat craze was going on things like juice would be labeled "low-fat" or "fat-free". Duh! I say, bring on the carbs!


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## DesireeH (Mar 22, 2003)

I was at the Wild Oats market tonight and you should see some of the crap they had! Tons of "low carb" unhealthy crap! Dont get me wrong, I am all for low carbs if people do it right (cutting out sugar, white flour, etc). Anyone with PCOS knows that low carbs is sometimes better (who knows if I would have my son if I didnt do it and level my hormones out), but that doesnt mean replacing carb foods with cancer causing garbage (like most are doing) is a good idea. What is up with carbsmart ice cream?! Ice cream isnt all that high in carbs anyways. I am not a fan of Atkins.......anything that makes you cut out veggies and fruits cant be good for you. But there are those who lowER their carbs and still eat fruits/veggies and it helps more than just their weight.

OT but they also were also selling Red Bull and tons of that kind of stuff at the HEALTHfood store?! I dont get it.


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## Valerie.Qc (Nov 19, 2001)

The only thing I look for in carbs is quality - baked potatoe over fries, whole grain bread over caramel colored brown bread







, etc. Oh, and don't forget quantity - moderation is the key


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## flutemandolin (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Parthenia*
Frozen pizza is cheaper because no one is buying it. MOre for me!
















:

Another thing I don't understand is the low-carb beer thing. I mean, alcohol = carbOHYDRATES. I've seen a billboard that says "All light beers are low carb. Choose on taste!" Which is double irony, since light beer has no taste whatsoever. I even saw another billboard (I know, there are WAY too many f'in BILLBOARDS out there blocking my view...don't get me started on that!







: ) for low-carbOHYDRATE Bacardi flavored rum!


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flutemandolin*
I mean, alcohol = carbOHYDRATES <snip> ...billboard for low-carbOHYDRATE Bacardi flavored rum!









Actually, alcohol isn't carbohydrates. Alcohol is a different thing entirely, metabolized in the stomach. The thought that alcohol = carbohydrates comes from the fact that most of the calories in beer come from carbohydrates - many other alcoholic drinks, such as tequila, vodka, gin, rum, and whiskey, contain no carbohydrates whatsoever (which makes the rum billboard even funnier).


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## snoodess (Apr 30, 2003)

Totally agree that the low-carb thing drives me nuts.

I have to giggle though every time I see those pints of Ben and Jerry's low carb karma ice cream. My poor dyslexic brain always reads them as low *crab* karma! Ewww! :LOL

Also whenever I see those barcadi and diet coke billboards that say 0 carbs I always think to myself, "well _jeeze_, heroin is 0 carbs too!"







(I think Jon Stewart may have said this)


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

the low crab ice cream sounds like one of those unusual japanese flavors, lol.

suse


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

Also whenever I see those barcadi and diet coke billboards that say 0 carbs I always think to myself, "well jeeze, heroin is 0 carbs too!"
Noooo! You stole my thought! I had this idea for a cartoon or a billboard or something where this junkie is rationalizing, saying "Hey, it's low-carb, man!" :LOL


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Ok, I am TOTALLY in love







with all of YOU LADIES! My DH and I are SOOO tired of this low-carb crap!

Apparently, learning nutrition basics (yeah, eating sugar all is NOT a good thing... duh) and watching portion sizes and exercising is never going to be in fashion.

No wonder we all have weight problems! (me included)

Thank you for this thread! Us people who are trying to use rational ways of losing weight (for instance, changing my diet long-term so I not only LOSE weight, which is easy, I keep the darn pounds off) are soooo tired of the low-carb thing!


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Oh, my, do I hate the low carb craze. Drives me batty!

What bothers me the most is that "low carb" for many (most?) people translates to "high animal product". And there are so many reasons (outside of personal nutrition) to reduce our consumption of animal products. I'm not saying that everyone needs to be a vegetarian--but it seemed as a society that we already consumed *plenty* of animal products. Now we have to farm more!!!????







:


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## Izzybee (Feb 20, 2004)

I can't stand the commercials, but I lost all my pregnancy weight PLUS 7 lbs by just eliminating all the starchy foods. I don't buy anything that's labelled low carb.


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## isleta (Nov 25, 2002)

here's a comic for youcarbs happen~!

If you view this later, it's the July 10th strip. Just click on the date on the little calender.


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## magemom (Mar 5, 2002)

I can't say I noticed low carb stuff before really. I never looked. I thought it sounded silly and ignored it. That is until I hit the borderline for GD. DH was trying to be helpful by bringing home some of the low carb stuff. Well, if I all I had was 'low carb' processed crap I would not eat! Ick! My mom mentioned loosing 30 pounds over the last 6 months, but she seems to be watching what she eats more than before and I think THAT is the difference for her. MIL follows the 20 per day rule and I have LOWERED mine by adjusting what I eat around a 'normal' healthy diet. Although to some LOW carb is normal.... but I want my carbs. I am just more careful with them than before. But more like 150 instead of 200-250.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

So much misinformation in this thread, too little time.

I am someone who has read Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution, and I've followed the Atkins regime for about a year now... and I assure you I am MUCH healthier for it.

I am also 80lbs. lighter, and counting.

I exercise. A lot.

I eat WHOLE, NATURAL foods. 100% of the time, for months now.

I eat LOTS of veggies, and fruits that are low on the glycemic index(which is most of them, btw).

I DO NOT, however, eat processed junk carbs - like the bread, pasta, sugar and white flour laden crap many of you are bragging about enjoying. BTW, I'm not looking for the "easy way out" like someone above stated, either. Losing weight is NOT "easy", no matter how you choose to do it. I understand you like your carbs folks, but lower carbohydrate eating IS healthy when done correctly, and it IS healthier than the junk carbohydrate laden diets most Americans consume. Atkins DOES encourage you to eat veggies right from the beginning, unlike what someone else stated above. Atkins also allows for fruits, whole grains, and almost any food you can think of - except for the "whites"(flour, potatoes, rice, pasta, sugar).

I'm just shocked at how much misinformation is floating around this thread!
I doubt there are 5 people that have responded here who have actually read Atkins' book, or any other LC eating plan, for that matter. If you have read the book(s), and you still believe LC = no fruit, veggies, etc... you need to read it AGAIN, and pay attention this time.









As someone who has read many of the lower-carbohydrate eating plans, I have YET to see one that doesn't include the HEALTHY CARBS. That's the point of a lower-carb way of eating... it helps wean folks like me from the JUNK CARBS - not the GOOD, nutrient dense carbohydrates.

Sheesh, the way some of you are acting, you'd think someone is trying to force YOU to give up YOUR junk carbs. Nope, that's not happening. Folks like me are just choosing to eliminate the junk from our own diets... and what do we get for trying to better our health? A bunch of crap from folks who perpetuate the myth that LC eating is nothing but meat, bacon grease and cheese. Get a grip! It's not like that! If you see someone eating nothing but crap, and calling it low-carb, then THEY are misrepresenting what this way of eating is all about. That's not Dr. Atkins fault, is it? I mean, a person COULD say they're doing Weight Watchers, and use all their points for ice cream and M&Ms... does that make WWs DANGEROUS or UNHEALTHY? I think not. Just because someone does a program improperly does not mean the program is flawed.

That said, I do agree that the never-ending stream of low-carb junk food is a bit ridiculous... only because the manufacturers are cashing in(gouging) at the consumer's expense. BUT, people following LC regimes need/like variety too, just like anyone else. Just because we don't eat white bread/sugar/ pasta/etc anymore doesn't mean we should never have a convenient meal or snack, does it?

Anyway, I am done. Sorry to rain on your low-carb bashing parade... but I know there are others like me out there who do LC the way it was INTENDED, and are sick of hearing/reading all these untruths.

Edited to correct typos.


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## plum (Mar 7, 2003)

my problem is the soda, cheetos, ice cream, chocolate, salad dressing and so on that are now being produced because they are 'atkins-friendly' and 'low carb', which people are taking as 'healthy.'


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## jaylind (Nov 19, 2001)

suse, meet my pal mattia. i know you asked me to come to this thread but i cannot say it any better than mattia did...









(baz)


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## glitterbits333 (Nov 17, 2003)

Hi Mattia

Thanks for chiming in! I think the main problem for most of us (and anyone correct me if I'm wrong) is the insane prevalence of this thing, the craze status it has reached so quickly; how you can't shop for groceries, or listen to the radio or pass a billboard without having it in your face/ears/eyes.

I found this list, although I don't know how correct it is: Atkins Induction Foods
but I've got to tell you, it makes me shudder just to think about eating that way. Would it even be possible for a vegetarian to be on the Atkins diet?

I'm glad it works for some people, because yes, losing weight is so difficult. But I would rather have my mom be on the heavier side, like she was, than having kidney problems, and all the other yuckiness that comes from a diet high in animal fat.

Personally, it scares me, not knowing what the long-term implications could be, since this is a relatively new thing.


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## 2+twins (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glitterbits333*
I think the main problem for most of us (and anyone correct me if I'm wrong) is the insane prevalence of this thing, the craze status it has reached so quickly; how you can't shop for groceries, or listen to the radio or pass a billboard without having it in your face/ears/eyes.

Being that I started this thread, I wanted to say that this statement above is in the spirit that the thread was created. I'll be the first to admit that I haven't read the Atkin's book, and while it may be right for you I'm honestly not interested in it. I'm also a vegetarian and don't know how that would play into it, but regardless I'm simply not interested. But that's really not what this thread was about for me. Just the craziness of it all. Sorry you took it so personally.


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

I'm all for cutting out those nasty mainstream carbs!

But I think *whole* grains are a very important part of the human diet.

Low carb to loose weight as a very temporary thing probably isn't to horrible, but in my opinion it couldn't be a healthy lifestyle unless there was a specific medical condition you're working with.


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

To me it is like SUV's- the SUV's and their drivers themselves dont' annoy me. But the SUV TREND does. Low carb probably has it's medical place- but the trend annoys me.


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## Izzybee (Feb 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glitterbits333*

Personally, it scares me, not knowing what the long-term implications could be, since this is a relatively new thing.


Although "the low carb madness" is fairly new, before agriculture, people have been eating this way for billions of years. Heart problems were few before grains came into the picture.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

So how did people ever manage to lose weight without diets like these? Whatever happened to moderate portions, healthy food (which includes bread, cereal, rice, pasta, potatoes and other CARBS) and regular exercise?

Talk it up all you want, but I get to eat whatever I want and still lose 1 lb a week, which is a normal healthy weight loss.


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## glitterbits333 (Nov 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izzybee*
Although "the low carb madness" is fairly new, before agriculture, people have been eating this way for billions of years. Heart problems were few before grains came into the picture.

I'll agree to that, but then again, human life was much different in those times, which I'd think would play into it. I'm no expert, and I'm certainly biased by my vegetarian beliefs, just my opinion.


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

if the part that is getting everyone's drawers in a bunch is that my dh can occasionally eat chocolate & ice cream & soy-flax chips with his guacamole, in addition to all the healthier foods he is eating, so he can eat this way as a lifestyle (instead of say, his mother, who failed when all this 'trendy' food wasn't around because she likes chocolate & ice cream & ended up getting a bypass that leaves her pukey & sick every day of her life), oh well.

uh, jenne, i understand that this was a 'vent', but do you really think you can just 'vent' calling possibly thousands of mdc members stupid & eventually some of them aren't going to get weary of hearing your misinformed opinion of *their* diet? i've heard a lot of things on this thread that made my eyes roll, but i've said it all before... i'm glad mattia had the stomach for correcting it, i have just gotta laugh & hand you a donut.

suse


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## wvmama (Jul 7, 2004)

Isn't low carb bread an oxymoron? It is to me. I would die before I would go low carb, I loke ice cream to much


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

So how do we explain all those healthy, normal-weight energetic people who don't have to deny themselves certain foods? "Just lucky"?


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## 2+twins (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *suseyblue*
uh, jenne, i understand that this was a 'vent', but do you really think you can just 'vent' calling possibly thousands of mdc members stupid & eventually some of them aren't going to get weary of hearing your misinformed opinion of *their* diet? i've heard a lot of things on this thread that made my eyes roll, but i've said it all before... i'm glad mattia had the stomach for correcting it, i have just gotta laugh & hand you a donut.

Okaaaaay, I don't think that my post called anybody "stupid". I did say I think the hype on all of this - the marketing companies making junk food out to be healthy - is ridiculous. And I didn't make any misinformed opinion of *their* diet - I said I was sick & tired of the low carb - eat all the crap you want as long as it doesn't have carbs in it - craze. Really not sure why you have such a problem with that. Here's my OP in case you misread it:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *love_homebirthing*
Am I the only one who has had it with this low carb craze? If I see one more low carb sign or commercial I think I'm going to go balistic!!! Have you seen the new Coke C2??? Ridiculous! Personally I love my carbs and don't think it's healthy to take your diet to extremes like that. Ugh! Just had to vent....

I would think that a person such as yourself who is obviously educated in the "right" way to lower carb intake would not qualify your diet as a "craze" and therefore none of this would even apply to you. I'd also think that you'd know enough to know that any extreme form of dieting is usually NOT the healthiest approach, and this is exactly what the craze is hyping. And while I do love my carbs, no where in there did I state "donuts". Thanks though for making _that_ assumption of me.


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## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *suseyblue*
if the part that is getting everyone's drawers in a bunch is that my dh can occasionally eat chocolate & ice cream & soy-flax chips with his guacamole, in addition to all the healthier foods he is eating, so he can eat this way as a lifestyle (instead of say, his mother, who failed when all this 'trendy' food wasn't around because she likes chocolate & ice cream & ended up getting a bypass that leaves her pukey & sick every day of her life), oh well.

uh, jenne, i understand that this was a 'vent', but do you really think you can just 'vent' calling possibly thousands of mdc members stupid & eventually some of them aren't going to get weary of hearing your misinformed opinion of *their* diet? i've heard a lot of things on this thread that made my eyes roll, but i've said it all before... i'm glad mattia had the stomach for correcting it, i have just gotta laugh & hand you a donut.

suse









: Good gracious. Read the OP again. I don't see her calling anybody stupid.

I haven't tried Atkins but I tried "The Carbohydrate Addicts' Diet," which I believe is similar. I didn't like it. I became constipated and got completely sick of trying to find proteins that I could eat. Not for me.

I feel the same way about the "low-carb craze" and the constant in your face ads as I did the "low fat craze" in the late 1980's. Remember "Healthy Choice Cookies"? Sugar, sugar, sugar, but oh, they were low fat. The legacy of that? Lots of fat people with diabetes. We don't know all the implications of these diets.

In addition, many, many people following one of these diets are NOT using the book, either. They just think, oh, I'll cut out bread and be fine. Their ignorance is not helped by the media type.

Why would anybody here care what your DH eats? If he's eating mostly healthy, more power to him. Is *anybody* claiming that a donut is healthy? I don't get it.

Since you all are ticked already, it occurs to me to mention that I could substitute the words "breast milk" and "formula" into this conversation and it reads really familiarly, what with all the generalizations and defensiveness going on.







:


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

If it is all of the "Atkins-friendly" products and ads that are driving people crazy, that is interesting because those products may actually be the downfall of the trend.....

I heard an interesting (to me, at least







) theory about "fad diets" a few weeks ago (can't remember where--pbs?). They work really well at first, because they eliminate a group of foods. Doesn't really matter what foods--just that the choice of foods is limited. Limited food choice= lower calories ingested (my dh lost 30 pounds one year just eliminating dairy....no other constrictions).

Then--the diet gets really, really popular, and everyone wants a piece of the marketing pie. So all of these "diet friendly" products are marketed, and suddenly the choice of foods is not limited at all! Think back to the low-fat trend: fat-free cookies, fat-free cake, fat-free icecream...you name it! And, predictably, people lost less weight on the fat-free plan with lots of new fat-free choices.

Only time will tell, but, as people incorporate all of these engineered "low carb" products into their diets, the low-carb diet may prove to be much less effective.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Hey Mattia! Congratulations on the weight loss! That's fantastic! I am about where I was when I talked to you last, but with a bun in the oven, so my waist is disappearing.

And on the topic -- the real problem with any fad diet is people hear what they want. With a low carb diet people hear "cut out bread and blah blah blah." The "blah blah blah" is the hard part -- eat whole foods, eat 10 cups of vegetables a day, etc. My health has improved tremendously on a low carb diet. I didn't do it for weight loss purposes (though I lost weight). I did it because the way of eating I had before was not sustainable. Now I am eating a lot more protein and animal fats. My pregnancy this time around is already tremendously easier than the last.

We've got a big ant problem on our property here. Do you guys know of a natural way to destroy ant colonies? Feed them sugar. After several generations, they'll be sterile. Yikes!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama*
Only time will tell, but, as people incorporate all of these engineered "low carb" products into their diets, the low-carb diet may prove to be much less effective.

Yes, or people will be in such poor health that it won't matter. Any food in a package is not fit for consumption. (Had to choose my words carefully there in light of Cynthia's thread in TAO. LOL)


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

FTR, I HAVE read "new diet revolution". I am about yeah-close to a biology degree and have taken a lot of A&P and human nutrition. The idea that you should be in ketosis to lose weight is silly - before ketosis was marketted as a weight-loss goal, IT WAS CONSIDERED A DANGEROUS MEDICAL CONDITION. And you know what, it still is detrimental to your health - it is just so heavily marketted that most doctors ignore it now. If you are in poor health, purposefully putting yourself into ketosis could be the last straw.

Anyway...

I don't care who is on the diet. I care that I can't get through the store without hearing about it a billion times. I care about ads with "net carb" information - if you look at the actual foods themselves, often a brand marketted as "low carb" actually has a higher carbohydrate content than other brands of the same food, which aren't marketted this way. But what bugs me the most is the people who go on these diets without ever reading up on them and think that you just eat meat - no veggies or fruits or anything - but then think that they can eat anything that has "Atkins-approved" or "low-carb" on it. People do this because it is so popular - if it wasn't pushed so heavily, people might actually have to THINK about it. I don't care if people make a choice I wouldn't make about their diets, what bugs me is the herd mentality where no choice is made at all, just a following.


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## kamilla626 (Mar 18, 2004)

My BIL was very overweight, and he was told to go on Atkins by his doctor. He did lose a ton of weight, but it still doesn't make sense to me that making extreme changes like that could possibly be beneficial!

And ITA - the way the marketing experts have jumped on the low-carb wagon is just insane. What's next, fat-free lard??

IMHO the only healthy, safe and effective way to lose weight is to simply _eat less and move more!_


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

i remember during the no fat craze in the 90's i saw an apple labled "non-fat"


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

ok, try to imagine this thread with the word 'vegetarian' subbed for 'low carb', with people who don't know any better saying things like, 'i can't understand why these people don't know that they are not getting enough protein when they won't eat meat! it's so stupid i can't believe it!'

wouldn't the educated vegetarians tend to roll their eyes at that ignorance?

i'm not upset, but thank you for your concern, lol. just making a point.

and the whole 'just eat less' scenario- so, all samoans (except the rock







) are just gluttons who don't know when to stop, huh? is it *possible* there is a genetic component to weight loss, that say, keeps people who metabolize food differently (like polynesians on long ocean voyages) alive in times of famine that kill ectomorphs? it is a bit of an insult to obese people to state that that portion control is their only hope and they are ridiculous for trying something that demonstrably *works*.

legitimate scientific criticisms of ketosis or of a diet without fresh fruits and vegetables (none of which are advocated by any low carbOHYDRATE plan- see, i'm not one of those dumb people who don't know that it is an abbreviation, as was maintained in an earlier post-uh, this statement is not imputing stupidity to followers of this diet?) are not a problem imho, but the implications of dullness attributed to those who choose to reduce carbOHYDRATES are pretty rude.

i am one of the people here who don't have a problem with rude comments on message boards, no censorship on my account, please! but i am certainly going to mention it when i see it!


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## Jamie and Griffin (Jan 10, 2002)

A question for the original poster and the people who agreed with her - are you as bent out of shape by all the low calorie/low fat products touted in grocery stores and restaurants? I don't know how old you guys are but I am old enough to remember the advent of many of these products and how vigorously these products were advertised. It is exactly the same as the low carb convenience food craze.

Of course, as with a low fat WHOLE FOODS diet, it is possible to eat a low carb WHOLE FOODS diet. Who says you have to use any low fat or low carbohydrate convenience products to stick to a dietary plan? Do you automatically assume that every person eating a low fat/low calorie diet is loading up on Snackwells and diet Pepsi?


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## 2+twins (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jamie and Griffin*
A question for the original poster and the people who agreed with her - are you as bent out of shape by all the low calorie/low fat products touted in grocery stores and restaurants? I don't know how old you guys are but I am old enough to remember the advent of many of these products and how vigorously these products were advertised. It is exactly the same as the low carb convenience food craze.

Of course, as with a low fat WHOLE FOODS diet, it is possible to eat a low carb WHOLE FOODS diet. Who says you have to use any low fat or low carbohydrate convenience products to stick to a dietary plan? Do you automatically assume that every person eating a low fat/low calorie diet is loading up on Snackwells and diet Pepsi?

Speaking for myself, it was the marketing of low carb foods EVERYWHERE that was driving me nuts. Not people who follow safe, healthy diets, but marketing that is out of control. That's all. No more, no less.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I have no problem eating foods that are naturally low-fat, low-carb or low-calorie. What I think is gross is when my dh drinks a 64-ounce diet soda every day! And he's not even into all the low-carb stuff!

I read another thread here from a mom whose CNM was telling her to avoid grapefruit during pgcy because it was "loaded with carbs." Well, I'll take a grapefruit (or a potato, or bread, or pasta) over a diet soda any day!


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Yes, I got just as sick of all the low-fat/no-fat crap as well. Still sick of it.

And no not all low-carbers are buying the Atkins ect.. products but many people are just as there are many low-fat dieters that for sure eat a lot of the low-fat/diet foods.

I do think you can be healthy and eat a diet low in carbs but I just don't think all the emphasizes on low-carb/no carb is the way to go or healthy for most people and for sure all the low-carb products aren't. I mean when people are eating bacon twice a day but won't eat a carrot or an apple somethings wrong, imo of course.
I would actually assume anyone here at MDC that eats low-carb would be doing so in a healthy way but dare I say most here aren't exactly a true sample of most people going low-carb. Just my thoughts on it.


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

Hey Jamie, that is exactly what bugs me the most - the idea that if you eat these convenience foods you are following the diet. I don't assume that if someone is on a low-fat or low-carb diet they are eating crap - my ire tends to be focussed on those who are loading up grocery carts with whatever is the marketted trend at the moment, thinking that this is a legitimate way to lose weight. I also dislike the whole marketting scheming. I personally can look at a "Nutrition Facts" label and understand it, and know that most MDC mamas can, but wonder whether many of these diet followers can, or if they just buy whatever is marketted most effectively.

I am not Samoan but I am part-Hawaiian. Most Hawaiians were not large (and I'm pretty sure this is true of Samoans as well), it was a priviledge of high status. Sometimes we think of what Hawaiians used to eat and we picture the more priviledged diet, which wasn't necessarily the healthier one, if that makes any sense. I wonder how many ethnic diets are this way - do they actually focus on what was eaten by people of that ethnicity, or are they focussing on a prettied-up picture of it, or maybe a slightly-changed picture (imagine the Chinese food available in most US cities - this isn't really Chinese food, it is Americanized Chinese food, are ethnic diets Americanized? Do they lose their effectiveness in this way, like how any diet can lose effectiveness if sufficiently watered-down?). It is true of any ethnic group that the less you eat the more 'efficient' your metabolism gets, and I'd imagine that some people just get more 'efficient' faster and easier.

And of course, there is the issue of whether it is always actually healthier to be lighter. Usually it is, but not if you are harming yourself to get there (not necessarily the case with low-carb diets, this can be true of any diet).


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## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jamie and Griffin*
A question for the original poster and the people who agreed with her - are you as bent out of shape by all the low calorie/low fat products touted in grocery stores and restaurants? I don't know how old you guys are but I am old enough to remember the advent of many of these products and how vigorously these products were advertised. It is exactly the same as the low carb convenience food craze.

Um, yeah. I think several people have said this already......

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jamie and Griffin*
Of course, as with a low fat WHOLE FOODS diet, it is possible to eat a low carb WHOLE FOODS diet. Who says you have to use any low fat or low carbohydrate convenience products to stick to a dietary plan? Do you automatically assume that every person eating a low fat/low calorie diet is loading up on Snackwells and diet Pepsi?

I'm like







: over this. I mean, duh, I think 90% of the people who have posted on this thread have essentially agreed with this position. It's the marketing trend that is disgusting. What exactly is the problem with understanding this, other than a huge amount of defensiveness?


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glitterbits333*
Hi Mattia

Thanks for chiming in! I think the main problem for most of us (and anyone correct me if I'm wrong) is the insane prevalence of this thing, the craze status it has reached so quickly; how you can't shop for groceries, or listen to the radio or pass a billboard without having it in your face/ears/eyes.

Hello!









See, the thing is this... LC did not just become popular over night. Atkins, for example, has been around since the 1970s, and has been gaining in popularity throughout the years. I think the popularity of LC plans may be at an all-time high right now because of the DOZENS of studies that have come out the past few years(Harvard, Duke, et al) that support LC as a healthy way of eating when done properly.

Quote:

I found this list, although I don't know how correct it is: Atkins Induction Foods
but I've got to tell you, it makes me shudder just to think about eating that way. Would it even be possible for a vegetarian to be on the Atkins diet?
First of all, yes, it would be VERY possible for a vegetarian to be on Atkins. I know a bunch on my favorite LC board.









As far as Induction goes, you all need to understand something. Yes, it is strict by almost any standards, but there is a reason for that. Induction is a process of detoxing the body, and it helps to eliminate the cravings that may cause a person to go off plan before the WOE even has a chance to help someone lose any weight. Induction lasts two weeks(unless you are very obese and wish to stay on this stage a bit longer - which is perfectly safe, btw), then you move on to the 'On-going weight loss' stage, where you slowly add a greater variety of carbohydrates back into your diet.

Look at this:

http://atkins.com/Archive/2001/12/15-770965.html

That is our 'Carbohydrate Ladder'. It is THE most important aspect of Atkins. If you are doing Atkins properly, you need to add these foods back in slowly over the course of a few months. Look at that list. Does that look ANYTHING like a "no-carb" regime, or one void of fruits, vegetables and grains? No, it doesn't. THAT is Atkins.

I think what some folks here fail to realize is that all of our metabolisms are as unique as the person they belong to. YES, some folks are lucky enough to be able to eat all the carbohydrates their hearts desire, junk carbs or not, without gaining tons of weight... atleast for a while, that is. Some of you that are enjoying all that white pasta, sugar and bread today may find yourself in my shoes some time in the future. My body does not tolerate certain carbohydrates well AT ALL anymore. I ballooned up, and was morbidly obese within a few years' time, and I was eating a diet VERY high in carbohydrates. Atkins has given me the structure and guidance to discover which foods *MY* metabolism prefers, while allowing me to regain my health.
While some do better on a low-fat/low-cal regime, others do not. Some do better on a Low-carb WOE. That's just the way it is.

Quote:

I'm glad it works for some people, because yes, losing weight is so difficult. But I would rather have my mom be on the heavier side, like she was, than having kidney problems, and all the other yuckiness that comes from a diet high in animal fat.
Atkins does not cause kidney damage. There is not one single case out there, showing that Atkins has ever caused kidney damage... and like I said, this plan has been around for DECADES. I know folks who have been maintaining this lifestyle for decades as well, and they are some of the healthiest people I know. FYI, Atkins does tell those with pre-existing kidney damage that his plan is not for them... because the extra protein may tax their already impared kidney function. So, no, it's not like Atkins sold his plan as the end all be all for everyone.

Quote:

Personally, it scares me, not knowing what the long-term implications could be, since this is a relatively new thing.
It is not a relatively new thing at all.







Not only have LC eating plans been around for decades and decades(some of the oldest are over a half century old, I believe), our ANCESTORS subsisted on what would be considered a low-carbohydrate diet today! For MILLIONS of years! Human were NOT designed to consume all these processed foods we have available today, and THAT is most likely the reason so many are struggling with obesity! We fatten up our cattle with refined grains and things like soy bi-products... and now these things have found their ways into OUR food chain in alarming rates... along with the two biggest, nastiest additives ever - HFCS and hydrogenated oils! [Both of which Atkins has been staunchly ANTI for decades, before anyone else was telling us how awful these things were for our health.







] These things are found in most processed foods, not just the LC junk foods. The difference is that those of us doing LC "by the book" are consuming processed food VERY infrequently, if at all... and we NEVER consume HFCS and trans-fats. Instead we eat whole foods, unlike most of the industrialized world.

Edited to correct typos.


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## GoodWillHunter (Mar 14, 2003)

I am sick of the "low carb" or "net carb" ideas... I understand you can loose weight quite well with it, but, just the words low carb... hate it.


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

I just have to chime in here quickly with a note to the OP's point about a particular diet suddenly becoming THE thing to do. It would be crazy with low fat, too. My problem with it is that many people go on it solely because of it's fame, without first evaluating their overall health condition. My example: I have two BILs.
Both children were rejected from several health plans because they weighed too much for their heights. My older BIL is overweight (my younger one is quickly working his way to obese 96 pounds at age 7 and climbing, but his mother feeds him nothing but carbohydrates and he hardly exercises.) The older one (he's 18) also eats hardly anything but carbohydrates and also doesn't exercise. But when his mother took him to the doctor, the doctor said "His metabolism isn't good for carbs. Put him on a low-carb diet." Did the doctor say, "This boy should be getting some exercise" or "He needs to eat a balanced diet that includes fruits and vegetables"???? No. He just told the mother to put him on this diet. So while I would totally agree that he needs to eat less carbohydrates, he also needs to eat fruits and veggies and get exercise. But instead he's replaced the carbohydrates he was eating with protein. So now all he eats is meat and cheese. Still no veggies, stilll no exercise. I'm sure he'll lose weight but as soon as he goes off the diet, his lifestyle won't have changed, so he'll balloon back up.

So my problem is not with the diet itself but how it is applied to everyone as a great diet, whether or not something else might be better in the long run. Make sense?


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow*
I'm all for cutting out those nasty mainstream carbs!

But I think *whole* grains are a very important part of the human diet.

Low carb to loose weight as a very temporary thing probably isn't to horrible, but in my opinion it couldn't be a healthy lifestyle unless there was a specific medical condition you're working with.

Whole grains are allowed at some stage of every LC plan I know of.

Also, this is most definitely a lifestyle change for me. The only way for one to lose weight and keep it off, is to keep eating the healthful way they ate to lose the weight. No diet can work if you're not on it, right?







That's why it's so important for each of us to find a diet that works FOR US. Something we can sustainably do for the rest of our lives. Something that will benefit our health, and something that we'll enjoy.

The only foods I will not eat for the rest of my life are "the whites" ... white flour, sugar, rice, and pasta. I do, however, plan to enjoy a white potato instead of a sweet potato once in a while... once I reach maintenance, if my body can can tolerate them well.

Please, anyone, tell me how a diet void of said white products, and inclusive of almost any other food you can think of by the time one reaches their goal weight, could possibly be considered DANGEROUS or UNSAFE... or even UNHEALTHY - by anyone's standards?


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izzybee*
Although "the low carb madness" is fairly new, before agriculture, people have been eating this way for billions of years. Heart problems were few before grains came into the picture.

This is very true, and it can be said that heart disease was virtually non-existant before the all of these refined and processed foods were introduced into the human diet.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
So how did people ever manage to lose weight without diets like these? Whatever happened to moderate portions, healthy food (which includes bread, cereal, rice, pasta, potatoes and other CARBS) and regular exercise?

Talk it up all you want, but I get to eat whatever I want and still lose 1 lb a week, which is a normal healthy weight loss.

I'm glad you've found something that works for you! I think that's the biggest part of the battle.









I get to eat whatever I want, too. I choose not to eat certain foods anymore, because I know how badly my body reacts to them. I know they're not good for me, so why would I want to eat them any longer? I think the problem is that people see low-carb diets as _restrictive_. They're not restrictive, folks. I _choose_ to eat this way because it's better for me. I'm healthier. I eat everything you eat, minus "the whites". Eventually everyone gets to this part of their LC journey, and they can eat just about everything you can eat, too. They may _choose_ not to eat "the whites" like I do, or they may be even more liberal than me. Each person has to find what works for them.

To answer your question about what folks did to lose weight before these diets... first off, there weren't the need for these diets nearly as much before refined/processed crud made it's way to our supermarket shelves. I imagine there have always been diets of some sort, but I'll have to research up on that one day, because now I'm curious.







Some people can eat moderate portions of everything right from the very beginning of their weight-loss journey, and don't necessarily need the _structure_ of a written "plan". And some of the population, including me, do much better with a written plan to learn from, that we can then make our own based on our individual needs. We're all different. Let's celebrate our diversity!









Edited to correct typos... only 2 this time!


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## Chanley (Nov 19, 2001)

I hate fads of any sort, drive me crazy! But as a family who has Celiacs disease, I love the low carb stuff. We do not eat grains. (well rice occasionally and some limited corn but that is it.) We also do not eat beans very often. Nor do we eat dairy.

The low carb menus in restaurants often means that we can eat it.

Why do we eat this way? Because grains make my husband and daughter sick. We eat NO processed food (except the occasional almond milk) and we have never been healthier. We eat pastured meat and LOTS of veggies. We get a ton of carbohydrates from fresh fruit and vegetables tho we limit white potatoes which are harder for the body to digest. We are slowly cutting out all refined sugar. For calcium, I make broth from bones which is simmered for 8 hours so that the minerals are leached out. We also eat plenty of calcium rich vegetables.

For us bread and pasta is poison, literally. Sooo....I am enjoying some of the low carb options but most of them have artificial sweeteners, soy flour (another allergy) and other garbage we cannot eat. However, some of them are completely fine. I just wish that there was more emphasis on pastured meats rather than the grocery store toxic junk.

I wish we had a low processed fad. But whole foods only make money for farmers, not big corporations that make franken food.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
So how do we explain all those healthy, normal-weight energetic people who don't have to deny themselves certain foods? "Just lucky"?









No. Some of the time it may be genetics. Some of the time it may be VERY hard work, AND genetics. Some of the time folks make better choices and NEVER ate the wrong kind of carbs in excess like so many others... which leads them down the path of insulin resistance. Which of course leads to obesity. Others may be lucky enough to be able to abuse the wrongs kinds of carbohydrates for a while... but then it'll catch up with them later.

I abused the right AND wrong kinds of carbs for too long. Now I have to fix what I did. Thank goodness I found Atkins, or I might have been forever ignorant of the huge part my food choices played in my obesity. The food pyramid, my parents, friends, family and educators all shaped my view of food growing up, and for a while my body could handle the assault. In my early 20s that changed. I am happy it happened to me, though. Otherwise I would not know what I know today, and I would still be eating some of that crud.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tracymom*
In addition, many, many people following one of these diets are NOT using the book, either. They just think, oh, I'll cut out bread and be fine. Their ignorance is not helped by the media type.

I agree with you. And it's usually the folks who do what they _think or assume_ is low-carb without reading so much as 1 book on the subject, that give this way of eating a bad name. A plan is not flawed just because someone does it improperly.

Edited for typos.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama*
If it is all of the "Atkins-friendly" products and ads that are driving people crazy, that is interesting because those products may actually be the downfall of the trend.....

I heard an interesting (to me, at least







) theory about "fad diets" a few weeks ago (can't remember where--pbs?). They work really well at first, because they eliminate a group of foods. Doesn't really matter what foods--just that the choice of foods is limited. Limited food choice= lower calories ingested (my dh lost 30 pounds one year just eliminating dairy....no other constrictions).

Then--the diet gets really, really popular, and everyone wants a piece of the marketing pie. So all of these "diet friendly" products are marketed, and suddenly the choice of foods is not limited at all! Think back to the low-fat trend: fat-free cookies, fat-free cake, fat-free icecream...you name it! And, predictably, people lost less weight on the fat-free plan with lots of new fat-free choices.

Only time will tell, but, as people incorporate all of these engineered "low carb" products into their diets, the low-carb diet may prove to be much less effective.

I agree that these products, coupled with the general public's general ignorance on this topic(see my last post), is damaging this way of eating. Low-fat diets DO work and can be very healthful for many people, if done without eating a ton of unhealthy low-fat products. The same can be said for low-carb. But it's usually the folks who jump into things without knowing what the heck they are _supposed_ to be doing that cause others to look at these ways of eating negatively.

Edited for typo.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Hey Mattia! Congratulations on the weight loss! That's fantastic! I am about where I was when I talked to you last, but with a bun in the oven, so my waist is disappearing.

Hey, Amanda! Thank you, and congratulations on your new lil' bean! YAY!









Yea, people treat it like a fad diet when they just do it half-arsed to lose a few quick pounds. But people who learn about and believe in this way of eating don't treat it like a fad.

I'm so glad you're having a nice, healthy pregnancy.







Yikes on the sugar/ant thing!


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nikirj*
FTR, I HAVE read "new diet revolution". I am about yeah-close to a biology degree and have taken a lot of A&P and human nutrition. The idea that you should be in ketosis to lose weight is silly - before ketosis was marketted as a weight-loss goal, IT WAS CONSIDERED A DANGEROUS MEDICAL CONDITION. And you know what, it still is detrimental to your health - it is just so heavily marketted that most doctors ignore it now. If you are in poor health, purposefully putting yourself into ketosis could be the last straw.

You are confusing the VERY BENIGN ketosis-lipolysis with a very dangerous condition called ketoacidosis. Here's more about it:

http://atkins.com/helpatkins/newfaq/...rBodyToBe.html

http://members.tripod.com/~Dietman2/ketosis.html

_Mod Note
Part of this post has been removed due to copyright volations_


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Hey Mattia, hey Jamie. Long time.
Glad you all are well.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jamie and Griffin*
A question for the original poster and the people who agreed with her - are you as bent out of shape by all the low calorie/low fat products touted in grocery stores and restaurants? I don't know how old you guys are but I am old enough to remember the advent of many of these products and how vigorously these products were advertised. It is exactly the same as the low carb convenience food craze.

Of course, as with a low fat WHOLE FOODS diet, it is possible to eat a low carb WHOLE FOODS diet. Who says you have to use any low fat or low carbohydrate convenience products to stick to a dietary plan? Do you automatically assume that every person eating a low fat/low calorie diet is loading up on Snackwells and diet Pepsi?

Yea, the venom towards this trend and the products that were sure to follow is confusing unless one is equally outraged at ALL junk/refined products that are advertised every day. I also agree that worst is usually assumed when it comes to LCer for some reason, but not someone doing WW or something similar. Very odd.

I understand being concerned for the health of those you love, but instead of all this mass hysteria about how "bad" low-carb is, I wish folks would pick up a book and educate themselves. If my family/friends were worried about me(and they're not







), I would hope they'd do the same before assuming I was killing myself. It's funny how folks never seem to get as _passionate_ about other's food choices when their family/friends/strangers are eating the donuts, and bread... but as soon as you say "low-carb", they break out in a hissy. Kinda funny, actually.


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## Plady (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mattia*
It's funny how folks never seem to get as _passionate_ about other's food choices when their family/friends/strangers are eating the donuts, and bread... but as soon as you say "low-carb", they break out in a hissy. Kinda funny, actually.









ITA what's up with that?

To answer the original question though, it _is_ annoying to see how junk food manufacturers have jumped at this business opportunity but Americans love junk food especially if it's "healthy" and Americans love capitalism, so this is the result.
Love it or leave it baby.


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

Actually Mattia, we learned that prolonged ketosis is dangerous to the health. Not just ketoacidosis. Even the mild form of ketosis throws off your body chemistry and is bad in the long run. And you CAN burn fat without getting yourself into ketosis, it just means balancing your diet differently. Nevertheless, ketosis in itself isn't going to be making those in otherwise good health keel over, it just has an effect if you allow yourself to stay in that state for too long. From what I understand, with the Atkins diet you should only be in ketosis during intiation, am I correct? This shouldn't hurt anyone. The point was more that everyone believes ketosis is harmless, which is a carefully marketted lie. There are some populations (pregnant women, those with type 1 diabetes) that should not go into ketosis on purpose, because it is dangerous for them, and others (those who work in pressurized environments - scuba divers for example) should consider that ketosis alters blood acidity even in its mild form and can make things like decompression sickness more likely.

Many body functions are on feedback loops maintained according to pH. Even very small changes can be troublesome - and this doesn't apply simply to the bloodstream, but to the digestive system and urinary system as well. Most people can handle this, but to pretend that ketosis is this wonderful thing that does nothing but good is dangerous for those who can't handle it.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Here's an article about a couple of ketosis studies that were completed a few years ago:

_Mod note
Removed for Copyright violation._
http://wilstar.com/lowcarb/research/research15.htm

Pregnant/nursing mothers are urged to stay out of ketosis, by Dr. Atkins and every other doctor out there that I know of, because there are no studies one way or another on whether ketones are harmful to fetuses/babies. Not because it's been proven to be harmful.

Edited to add: I agree that certain groups of people should not resort to ketosis, as you said... but these warnings are laid out in the ketogenic plans I've seen. It's up to each person to speak with their doctors, and to do the research on the matter.

BTW, lower-carb diets can also be extremely effective without going into ketosis at all. Again, your milage may vary.


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

Most of the negative effect of ketosis comes from the fact that it forces more water out of your body. Dehydration is never recommended for anyone, much less for pregnant women, hence the recommendation to stay out of ketosis. Like you said, you can eat a low-carb diet and stay out of ketosis. I'm not opposed to a low-carb diet. I'm opposed to fast-food low-carb crap-food marketting. I'm sick of hearing that low-carb diets are the be-all and end-all of the diet world, and that there is nothing wrong with them, etc. etc. etc. It's just that I would love it if people would own up to the fact that even if they're on a low-carb diet, they're not necessarily "eating healthy" just because they're buying the stuff they're "supposed to." It is the mindlessness that comes from all the marketting, not the diet itself, that bugs me.


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## Jamie and Griffin (Jan 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tracymom*
I'm like







: over this. I mean, duh, I think 90% of the people who have posted on this thread have essentially agreed with this position. It's the marketing trend that is disgusting. What exactly is the problem with understanding this, other than a huge amount of defensiveness?

Actually, I read the entire thread and my impression (which, of course, may be different from your impression) was the sheer anger that the products and the low carbohydrate diet exists. I'm not defensive because I do not follow a low carb diet plan. I just wonder why more people aren't beside themselves over *all* processed crap products. Frankly, I am more upset by the number of people who are unaware of how bad hydrogenated oils, high fructose corn syrup, and other preservatives are. I get my panties in a tighter wad over the products marketed towards children that are laden with absolute crap. Feh. Who cares about the low carb products. Big deal. If people are following a low carbohydrate way of eating the *way it was intended* they won't be buying that crap anyway but that goes for any diet at all. Alas, most Americans will not do that so business swoops in and exploits an opportunity. Whatever. Happens everyday.

Quote:

I would actually assume anyone here at MDC that eats low-carb would be doing so in a healthy way but dare I say most here aren't exactly a true sample of most people going low-carb.
You give people more credit than they probably deserve. I am often shocked at the number of MDCers who list what they buy at the grocery store and their carts are full of processed crap. Hamburger Helper is not a healthy choice, folks, even if you leave the meat out.








Hi, Amanda! Congratulations on your pregnancy. Did you move to your utopia in the mountains?


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Do a lot (or even anyone) here think hamburger helper is healthy with or without the meat???? Of course hamburger helper isn't low-carb (at least not yet







) so low-carbers wouldn't be eating it, right.
I agree about all the processed crap, especially the stuff marketed towards children.


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## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jamie and Griffin*
Actually, I read the entire thread and my impression (which, of course, may be different from your impression) was the sheer anger that the products and the low carbohydrate diet exists.

Acknowledged. I guess all I see is the irritation and anger about the marketing and the current fad aspect of it for most of the posters. Some did seem against the concept, per se, but seemed to me the majority were just against the fad. My POV coloring it, I guess.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jamie and Griffin*
You give people more credit than they probably deserve. I am often shocked at the number of MDCers who list what they buy at the grocery store and their carts are full of processed crap. Hamburger Helper is not a healthy choice, folks, even if you leave the meat out.

This touches on one of the subjects I'm seeing banded about a lot. I've lurked and posted here for a long time and I'm the first one to admit I've got a looong way to go to even approach the healthiness of the diets some of you have. However, many, if not most, of the moms here come to learn, and take tiny steps toward better health and nutrition. A lot of us grew up on "processed crap," as you put it, and don't know any other way to cook or eat. I like to think I'm learning all the time. 'twould be great if we could see more of a teaching tone from folks rather than what sounds like a superior one.







Maybe it's just me.









Peace,


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Sounds like Mattia and I are very much alike--thank you for posting much of what I would have posted, had I seen this thread sooner.

The general feel I got from this thread at first was irritation by all the new low-carb products. I can see that--I'm irritated by it too. But it quickly morphed into a low-carb diet bash fest where a lot of posters here commented about eating their carbs and lovin' it, blah, blah, blah. Maybe a lot of you haven't been morbidly obese (God, I hate that term!). Maybe a lot of you haven't had unexplained facial hair, infertility, inability to lose weight and the ability to gain it very quickly, despite the fact that we've exercised and cut out supposedly bad foods. It's very sad and frustrating and you feel like a freak of nature.

So...I finally get diagnosed w/PCOS and find out that any carbohydrate (yes, I also know the full word and what it means) I eat gets stored in my body immediately as fat. I have too much insulin already--eating carbs only compounds the problem--not to mention it makes me feel hungry because insulin is a "hunger hormone". Then I go on a "low carb" diet (hate that word because there is so much stigma associated with it--as many of you have demonstrated in this thread).

So I read up on the different low carb "diets" and decide to pick out what I liked from each of them and tailor one for me. I cut out refined white CRAP that most of us eat. I replaced it with less-refined foods, substituted a non-starchy vegetable for the potato, rice, pasta dish that I cut out. So...a meal of chicken breast, lettuce salad with homemade buttermilk ranch dressing and a side of green beans is a typical meal for me. Healthier than the frozen pizza that I hear many of you are eating.

I also was very active at this time (something I'd done before going low carb and didn't work). I lost 20lbs my first month. I lost 70 lbs in 7 months. My period returned, my facial hair slowed down, my insulin/glucose and testosterone levels evened out and I was able to get pregnant again without the use of fertility assistance. I even had a high self esteem to boot! Wow!

As far as the low carb products out there, I agree, most of them are pure crap. But...we low-carbers are human too and every now and again need to slip up. Maybe even feel a little "normal" with the rest of the population who are chowing down on their hershey bars and ice cream cones. So...if I feel the need, I just may buy one of those low carb products to help me through my weak moment. Yes...all the crap in there is just that--crap--artificial everything. But for someone like me, carbs are also crap. If I eat a regular candy bar, I may suffer from serious cravings for a week after eating that, which could be very detrimental to my low carb lifestyle and make me fall off the wagon, so to speak.

Anyway...all that to say that some of us are biologically in need of a lower carbohydrate lifestyle. Some people have been dealt a bum hand and CAN'T eat a diet of regular bread, potatoes, etc. The people that can...yes--consider yourselves "lucky". Also, the people who can simply eat less and move more and lose weight--consider yourself lucky as well.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I have not read all the post but in reality this "low-carb" labeling is like the "low-fat/reduced-fat" labeling of years past. Like low fat foods not all low carb foods are good. You have chips on olestra and "fat free". The lableing of LOW CARB is not regulated so that is were you have problems.

It sounds like many of you have not done your research about low-carb diets. Yes there is some nutrious food eliminated but not all and NOT PERMANTLY. For some some items are permermant for SOME PEOPLE.

With Atkins, South Beach, Diebetic they all work on the same concept. Atkins is the most severe but as you go through the phases you learn how to eat and HOW to cook. You learn portion control!!!!! I just started and having to measure things and learning a protion size is really helpful.

For me watching my foods and calories was not working.

I finally broke down and asked a dietition friend about it. She was anti-low/carb until her diebeties, weight, and health went to [email protected]#@. The she learned more about it and started a low-carb (not atkins) diet and things leveled out. She has arguements with the more extreme low-carb diets.

There is a lot of myths out there about low-carb diets. Cheese at first should only be about 4 oz a day. Bacon is fine if you can find it with out sugar and nitrates (I found some for 5 bucks a lb). Low-carb diets don't necessarily mean red meat.

The big problem si many people do not read up and make wrong assumptions about using low-carb diets.

With atkins you are in lipolisis/ketoes for the first three phases. By the third phase you are barely if at all in it.

Yes you might not be able to eat Apples but you can eat many other vegitables, fruits, and berries.

You elimnate all sugar from your diet. At first you do limit fiber sources but you do add as you go.


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

Why would anyone want to live off of pre-packaged low-carb foods, and mixes, etc? I sincerely don't get it. As if eating all that crap is going to help you lose weight or be healthy. Whatever. Some people need to get a clue. Diet should be about a lifestyle change-not running with the latest craze.
Leila


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nikirj*
Dehydration is never recommended for anyone, much less for pregnant women, hence the recommendation to stay out of ketosis.

As the other poster said No low-carb planner ever ment it for pregnant women.

They all recommend *AT LEAST 8-8oz* of water a day. I think Atkins could also recommend AT LEAST one extra oz for every 25 pounds of being over weight. I am currently 65 lbs over weight so I make sure I drink AT LEAST 10-8 OZ of water a day. I drink from a 32 oz cup and have 4-5 of them a water a day. I splurg with a cup of 50-50 decaf coffee in the morning. I love the flavor of coffee. I am working to decaf. ****I could have learned this else were.


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

leilalu, i sincerely don't get how people think any one person that does not have the cash of paris hilton (give that girl some carbs!) is going to be able to *afford* to eat nothing but $5 chips & $6 pkgs of brownie mix. they are JUST AN ADJUNCT, just a crutch, a once in awhile thing. am i getting through yet?

'Some people need to get a clue.'

*cough*

suse


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leilalu*
Why would anyone want to live off of pre-packaged low-carb foods, and mixes, etc? I sincerely don't get it. As if eating all that crap is going to help you lose weight or be healthy. Whatever. Some people need to get a clue. Diet should be about a lifestyle change-not running with the latest craze.
Leila

I agree with Suse! Do you really think that people are living off this stuff? It's there for people who need a "treat" every now and again. Hell, there are Little Debbies and Doritos and Pop Tarts littering our grocery store shelves--do you think that's what most people live off of too? I don't--they are there to be treats--to make someone who NEEDS to low carb feel "normal" every now and again when his/her thin counterpart is sitting next to them scarfing their Hershey bar or eating their Cap'n Crunch.

This is exactly the unfair kind of stigma that gets my undies in a bunch (but because of low carbing, said undies are much smaller than they used to be!







).


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## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

May I ask what blood types you are, Mattia and Brayg? I sometimes wonder about the validity of certain blood types doing much better on low carb than others. Please do not answer if you don't want to.









I have a very difficult time staying with low carb. I admire those who are diligent with it and see results.


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mattia*
Whole grains are allowed at some stage of every LC plan I know of.

Also, this is most definitely a lifestyle change for me. The only way for one to lose weight and keep it off, is to keep eating the healthful way they ate to lose the weight. No diet can work if you're not on it, right?







That's why it's so important for each of us to find a diet that works FOR US. Something we can sustainably do for the rest of our lives. Something that will benefit our health, and something that we'll enjoy.

The only foods I will not eat for the rest of my life are "the whites" ... white flour, sugar, rice, and pasta. I do, however, plan to enjoy a white potato instead of a sweet potato once in a while... once I reach maintenance, if my body can can tolerate them well.

Please, anyone, tell me how a diet void of said white products, and inclusive of almost any other food you can think of by the time one reaches their goal weight, could possibly be considered DANGEROUS or UNSAFE... or even UNHEALTHY - by anyone's standards?

Maybe that is just it- I am SOOOO with you on diets void of refined carbs. Maybe I wish the emphasis was on *quality carbs* Instead of the advertisements saying no carbs I wish I would see whole wheat pasta that said "Whole grain-good carbs"

The average joe who decides to try this diet does not buy books and educate themselves- not that I've seen. Everyone I know just says "no carbs, high protein- ok here i go" and end up failing because it isn't sustainable not knowing how it really works.

I wish the marketting campaign emphasised that good carbs DO exist. Subway as an example, they've come out with low carb wraps- which is a thinner wrap- still made out of refined carbs. Why not offer a whole wheat/brown rice/good carb alternative?


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## Cranberry (Mar 18, 2002)

I haven't read the entire thread, but wanted to add a couple of comments...

I think any diet that promotes *lots* of red meat as a healthy part of your diet is dangerous, which brings me to my second point...

Did you hear about the guy who is suing the Atkins diet program because he got heart disease after being on the diet? Um... duh... it's all the meat and eggs, maybe????







Did he think that was going to be _*good*_ for his heart?


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jamie and Griffin*







Hi, Amanda! Congratulations on your pregnancy. Did you move to your utopia in the mountains?

Yep, we are here. The sky is actually blue here. Frederick had developed allergies (I assume because of the air pollution in Visalia) which cleared up in four days. My husband has had allergies forever that are getting a lot better. WE're still working on fighting the deer, squirrels, and gophers over the garden. We'll get there.


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

Haven't read the thread but saw a young teen wearing a shirt with the food pyramid and it said I love Carbs...lol


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## flutemandolin (Nov 20, 2001)

My my my...what an ugly twist this thread has taken since I left for the weekend! As one who participated originally with a few snide comments about the marketing aspect, I feel attacked by those who assume A) that I am someone who has not studied the nutritional aspect of dieting and B) I am bashing any person who chooses to eat a HEALTHY low carbohydrate diet and C) that I think anyone on such a diet does not even know the correct term is "carbohydrate" not "carb". Sheesh.







Give me (and others) a little more credit. I posted because I am sick of the marketing hype, and they are not marketing the healthy, whole foods, they are marketing the processed stuff. Chanley made an excellent point:

Quote:

I wish we had a low processed fad. But whole foods only make money for farmers, not big corporations that make franken food.
And in the marketing, these corporations are assuming that the population is so ignorant that they cannot take the time to read labels and make the choices for themselves; everything has to have a bright label "LOW CARB" in big letters or duhhhh, we just won't get it. And some stuff, like the low-carb flavored rum, is just absurd. I wouldn't criticize a restaurant for including healthy items that are consistent with a low-carbohydrate diet, or the people who make an educated choice to follow such a diet, but people like my boss, who hasn't read the book but brings donuts into the office for coffee break and then spends more money for an "Atkins friendly" lunch item from a fast food place, well......interesting.

And yes, in fact I do have the same venom for anything the big frankenfood corporations put in your face with big media campaigns. They take what can be a good idea for some and dumb down the concept so people will buy their processed products. That practice annoys me, whether it is low fat, lite, vegetarian, whatever. This thread just happened to be about how they are doing this with low carb stuff, if I'm not mistaken.

Anyhow, just wanted to make it clear that I don't think anyone who follows a low carb diet is necessarily stupid.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I have a question, maybe someone has an answer. I was loosely doing the low calorie "diet" in the Curves weight loss book. Mainly just trying to eat a bit more protein (I work out and do not consume much protein), eat whole grains instead of bad carbs (like ww spaghetti, ww bread with no hydrogenated oils, etc) and eating more fresh fruit and veggies. I bought some soy protein shake mix to have on hand to make smoothie snacks, but everytime I eat something like that I end up with a migraine... thoughts?

PS- other than the migraines when I consume soy shakes, I felt better when I consumed some protein and had less cravings for sugar and was losing the spare tire around my middle. I got bored with it and snacked on pringles the last two weeks and now I've gained 7lb in three weeks. No kidding. There was a nice article in Chiropractic Monthly last month that compared proteins and talked about complete and incomplete proteins and suggested a variety... not just bacon and eggs!


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Wanted to add in response to the OP, that yes, I am annoyed by all the hype. I am tired of reading ingredient labels to see they contain partially hydrogenated soybean, palm, canola or etc oil, food colorings, BHT, BHA and other unpronouncable ingredients.









My grandma is doing Atkins to the extreme- bacon and eggs for breakfast every morning, her salads are _slathered_ in thick dressings, and she eats these energy bar things from New Image for lunch every day (not sure what the ingredients are for that stuff). She started that diet, oh about 2-3 years ago and if she's lost any weight at all you can't tell. I don't think she's doing it by the book though, at least it seems too extreme. ;scratch

She did quit drinking diet soda after I explained the dangers of artificial sweeteners... she has chosen instead to save pop (er, soda) for special occassions and not every day drinking.


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## tricia80 (Oct 28, 2003)

Hi everyone









i have only read a couple pages (1st and last) :LOL

and i have to say im sick of the low carb craze... im sick of the low carb alcohol, fast food etc... but this is one i dont get

Low Carb Pasta Sauce... huh i thought pasta was off limits... i see all this crap at work.. and laugh my arse off...


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## queen bee (Nov 19, 2001)

I've been struggling to lose thirty pounds that I gained rather quickly last year- punds which have been totally resistant to loss in spite of following all the standard weight loss rules. I mean, I trained for and ran a marathon this winter/spring, did aquarobics and spinning classes 3x a week, all the while following Weight Watchers (sensible portions of a variety of foods) and did not lose ONE SINGLE POUND! (I also had my body fat % checked over several months, so I know it wasn't just a matter of muscle gain.) Calories in - calories out? Sorry, it does not work that way for everyone. It *used to* work that way for me, but something in my physical makeup isn't playing by the rules anymore. I am extremely active and for months I've been faithfully tracking my caloric intake, and according to conventional weight loss mathematics, I should have been losing weight. It was all so baffling I even had my thyroid checked - but it was normal.

A month ago, I cut out most refined sugar and flour (and yes, even much of the "good carb" whole wheat) and even though my caloric intake has remained the same, I have lost 7 pounds. I am now eating essentially the way I did while I had gestational diabetes - low fat and very controlled carbohydrates, no matter what their source. Back when I was testing my blood sugar every day, I learned that even "good" carbohydrates could send my blood sugar way out of the normal range. Adult onset diabetes runs in my family, and I am becoming quite convinced that I (and many others, I'm sure) don't metabolize food in the "normal" way.

The low-carb marketing blitz is silly, but no more silly than most marketing, IMHO. Yeah it's kinda lame, but for me it doesn't induce the emotional reaction that I've seen expressed in some of these posts. The availability of products like the Atkins Subway wrap make it easier to go out and be "normal" - rather than always having to customize your order or avoiding eating out altogether. The wraps that Subway offers are *not* "just thinner wraps" as a previous poster suggested. Most sandwich wraps are big flour tortillas. The Atkins wraps are made with oat fiber and soy flour - and are much higher in fiber and protein and lower in sugar and fat and calories than any other sandwich wraps and sandwich breads. When I eat a regular Subway sandwich - lets say chicken and veggies on whole wheat - I can feel my blood sugar spike and crash afterward. It doesn't happen with the wraps.

Yeah, some of the low-carb pre-packaged stuff is just junk food, but now and then when I *want* junk food, it's nice to have some options that aren't going to send me into a sugar-shocked coma for the rest of the day.

23 pounds to go,
qb


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## Kristina (Oct 31, 2002)

AMEN! I hate the new low carb trend. It will probably cause cancer...everything else does


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

tricia, don't laugh- the low carbOHYDRATE (ok, flute, lol







) pasta (it used to be vile, vile stuff; soy that never got tender no matter how long you cooked it, & 6 or 7 bucks besides) is now, like qb said about the wraps, a higher fiber, higher protein & TASTY meal.

if people are gonna get on the low-carb followers about too much meat, for god's sake, don't rain on their pasta too! (khrisday, if you are here, i apologize about what i said about low-carb pasta- you must've had the good stuff come out where you are before i did!) and if you get pasta sauce without added sugar/corn syrup too (which i did long before my dh ever went low-carb- blech. barilla is good, not to mention muir glen organics etc) it is reasonably low in carbs itself.

frankenfoods do indeed suck; and i am hoping the opposite of many here- that the success of the diet continues to do what it has started doing, which is offer a wider variety of higher quality food at lower prices, & that there will be non-gmo, less processed, organic alternatives soon.

what exactly is wrong with a lower carb potato that is not gmo? do you get irritated at makers of diabetic foodstuffs too? insulin issues in common, & i'm sure they make a profit... my diabetic biostepdad eats a healthy diet too, and also likes an occasional treat like the highly processed artificially sweetened chocolate. i'm asking gently, why does this not upset people, but low carb stuff for the obese does? i believe that it is acceptable, because it is still considered acceptable by society to discriminate against fat people.

i don't think the thread *got* ugly; i think it started that way. i hope people will start to have more compassion for those struggling with weight issues & realize that mere portion control is not always enough for those with insulin reactions to high carbohydrate foods. no one will make anyone who doesn't *want* to lower their carbs, i promise! your krispy kremes will never go out of business! (even if the stock prices fall, lol.)

suse


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## Celtain (Mar 10, 2004)

I don't think this was ever "against" the diet, I think it was more about everytime you turn around something Low-Carb is staring you in the face. Watch network TV in prime time and you will know what I mean it is getting to a point that EVERY commercial you see is low-carb, and every food item wants to jump on the band wagon!!!!


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *playdoh*
May I ask what blood types you are, Mattia and Brayg?

I'm A+


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izzybee*
Although "the low carb madness" is fairly new, before agriculture, people have been eating this way for billions of years. Heart problems were few before grains came into the picture.


If I'm reading this: http://www.geog.ouc.bc.ca/conted/onl...0/210_3_4.html

correctly, it appears to me that humans began growing grains & other items agriculturally about 10,000 years ago. If anyone has a different timeline on this, I am certainly not an expert.

Life expectancy in 8,000 B.C. was only about 26-30 years of age. I can't imagine that any of these people were living long enough to develop heart disease. Perhaps this accounts for the low rates.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

These are some quotes from just the first 2 pages of this thread. It reeks of misinformation and an elitist type of attitude, IMNSHO.

As far as the "I'd rather be a little overweight than give up food I like" comment--some of us aren't/weren't a "little overweight" and it isn't just about giving up foods we like. It's about having a life where you aren't denied for medical insurance because you weigh too much. It's about being able to conceive another child--one that you so desperately want but can't because you have a condition that makes you infertile and by controlling carbohydrates, you get all that back. It isn't about vanity or the fact that I want to lose that last 10lbs to look good in a bikini. I just want to fit through the turnstyle at Menard's. Or the movie theater seats. *sigh*

Quote:

I love my carbs... pasta, bread, fruits and veggies...yum!

Quote:

They just did a study I think in Germany that is now linking the low carb thing to fertility issues! One more reason for me not to do it!







: I have done an Atkins like thing and it totally sucks! I LOVE bread and pasta just too much!

Quote:

whatever happened to watching what you ate and exercizing?

Quote:

I also wonder whatever happened to regular exercise and portion control, but I guess we are all looking for a "faster" way to get what we want.

Quote:

I refuse to do such diets.... I just don't think they are healthy.

Quote:

I don't mean to diminish the struggle that some people have with weight, but please. It's calories in vs. calories out. There is no magic formula - never has been, never will be.

Quote:

We're balanced-diet kind of people and won't be going on any of these diets any time soon.

Quote:

UGH... I hate this fad (atleast I hope that what this is). Don't eat apples 'cause they're high in carbs...that sounds like great diet to me. Don't eat heathly fruit and vegetables, eat meat and fat and yuck.

Quote:

What about a fad where you ate small portions and then went for a walk!

Quote:

My only reaction to yet another stupid fad diet is that the stupid die young.

Quote:

Personally, I'd rather be a little overweight than give up food I like.

Quote:

I am sick and tired of the whole thing. I refuse to have ANY part in it. I abhor it.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

My annoyance with all the low-carb marketing has NOTHING to do with discriminating against fat people, I am a fat person. I am just so tired of everywhere I look LOW-CARB in my face, eveyone is talking about it oh how skinny you can get real fast. I don't often hear someone doing it for health reason, usually only vanity. I mostly hear normal weight women obsessing with their NORMAL weight talking about being able to lose weight going low-carb (my mom is one of them).
It is becoming like low-fat/no fat craze , where you couldn't go anywhere or watch anything w/o hearing low-fat blah blah blah.
I am all for healthy eating low-carb or not. I understand being overwieght (I'm there) and I think it's great that those of you here have cut down on carbs, especially the icky refine ones and lost weight, really congrats!!!!
I completely agree that there are people who are highly sensitive to carbs and I do think it's great those people have access to low-crab treats now.
But all the marketing/propaganda is just overkill.


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## queen bee (Nov 19, 2001)

"I do think it's great those people have access to low-crab treats now."

Mmmmmm. All the taste, half the crabs.


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

you know, that made me have such a craving i went & splurged on crabmeat yesterday, but i'm not putting it in ice cream! my maryland native dh is getting crab-cakes minus bready binders, lol (and so ds can eat them, they will be made with soy creamer & oat milk )

suse

(shea, i didn't say everyone who posted that the hype was making them annoyed was discriminatory to fat people, altho' of course BEING one doesn't exempt one from being influenced by subtle







societal signals. but i think brayg made her point with the quotes, don't you? nothing's 'ugly' when it's 'us' against 'them' & you are one of 'us'- it's only ugly when 'they' finally speak up.)


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

*busybusymomma*--not all soy products are processed the same. My son had/has soy allergies. He can not drink soy milk or eat tofu but when have found products that have soy (flour, I guess what you call it) in it that does not bother him one bit. IMO, (Unedcated opinion) I think it is like dairy were milk might bother a person but not yogurt or cheese.

*tricia80*--I have not read the back of the low carb speghitti sauce. There are low carb noodles (they are very high in fiber). On a side note about JARRED/PROCESSED speghitti sauce often time there is sugar in it which noone needs in their diet. I do not buy jarred sauce because often times there is mushrooms in it. My dh is very allergic to mushrooms. I cannot kiss him after eating them or he gets sick. Speghitti sauce in small amounts can be a wonderful dip. A few years ago I did not have a car and had no noodles so I made up a dish of brocilli, squash, zuchini, carrots, verious cheese and they dipped a way. They now request me to put left over sauce in small bags so they can pull one out and dip away.

Also Speghitti sauce on speghitti squash is (IMO) wonderful. I/we did this before I started LOW CARB'ing it.

With low carb dieting does not equal red meat. You can and do it only on fowl, see food, and pork. **Again before I even started Atkins if I would eat a little red/dark meat two to three days before I my period my iron levels don't dip. This added red/dark meat prevented bad PMS and tiring periods.

If you see/hear a person eating a lot of bacon on the diet they are not reading the lables or misreading lables. Most bacon is cured with sugars. Sugars are no-no's on low carb diets. You can find it but it is expensive.

*As for the law suit against Atkins* ---UMM--- I think that is like the law suits against McDonalds and smoking industries. The guy that is suing Atkins is supported by a group called Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, which advocates a no-meat, no-dairy, no-fish vegan lifestyle. They have a bias opinion. If they would win or settled out of court this would support their cause so there is/can be an alternate less than honorable motive happening. This orginization was also responcible for cirrculating misinformation about Dr. Atkins death. (For the record Dr. Atkins slipped on ice, had brain injury and spent a month in a comma before he died. His medical records shows that he ballooned up 60lbs during this time. He had very typical medical issues of someone in a comma and brain injury.)

This guy admits that he started Atkins on a pastrami and cheesecake diet. http://writ.news.findlaw.com/comment..._zipursky.html I don't know the ingredents to pastrami, but a lot of lunch meats are a NO-NO because of fillers. As for cheesecake it is not in the induction phase. To be in the diet at all there are many modifications 1. crustless or an almond/nut type crust (which is a no during the induction). 2. No sugar. Also in induction cream cheese is only recommended about one once a day. I doubt a slice of cheese cake has just one once.

*Playdoh* I am AB negative.

One more thought. This d#@$ C-2 (low carb coke) has 14 carbs in it. It does not fit in any low carb diet.


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## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom*
*As for the law suit against Atkins* ---UMM--- I think that is like the law suits against McDonalds and smoking industries. The guy that is suing Atkins is supported by a group called Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, which advocates a no-meat, no-dairy, no-fish vegan lifestyle. They have a bias opinion. If they would win or settled out of court this would support their cause so there is/can be an alternate less than honorable motive happening. This orginization was also responcible for cirrculating misinformation about Dr. Atkins death. (For the record Dr. Atkins slipped on ice, had brain injury and spent a month in a comma before he died. His medical records shows that he ballooned up 60lbs during this time. He had very typical medical issues of someone in a comma and brain injury.)

This guy admits that he started Atkins on a pastrami and cheesecake diet. http://writ.news.findlaw.com/comment..._zipursky.html I don't know the ingredents to pastrami, but a lot of lunch meats are a NO-NO because of fillers. As for cheesecake it is not in the induction phase. To be in the diet at all there are many modifications 1. crustless or an almond/nut type crust (which is a no during the induction). 2. No sugar. Also in induction cream cheese is only recommended about one once a day. I doubt a slice of cheese cake has just one once.

Ugh, I heard about that misinformation thing. Not only are their intentions less than honest with the hidden agenda, what about HIPAA regulations and release of information? Just because he died doesn't make his medical information fodder for everybody. The only people who had the right to release his medical information would have been his family and legal representation, IMO.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom*
One more thought. This d#@$ C-2 (low carb coke) has 14 carbs in it. It does not fit in any low carb diet.

:LOL I have to admit I wondered when I thought "Half the sugar? That's still a heckava lot of sugar." I was only interested because I figured even half the sugar would be better than my insulin reaction to diet drinks with aspartame.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:

i think brayg made her point with the quotes, don't you?
:LOL

I hope you all don't think I'm an absolute nut--just trying to show where I felt the conversation taking a turn for the worse and where the defensiveness arose from.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *playdoh*
May I ask what blood types you are, Mattia and Brayg? I sometimes wonder about the validity of certain blood types doing much better on low carb than others. Please do not answer if you don't want to.









I have a very difficult time staying with low carb. I admire those who are diligent with it and see results.









I don't mind sharing.







I'm type O+.

BTW, Brayg, those are some of the quotes that were getting my very loose undies in a wad, too.


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## magemom (Mar 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *playdoh*
May I ask what blood types you are, Mattia and Brayg? I sometimes wonder about the validity of certain blood types doing much better on low carb than others.

I don't remember what the book was called- 'eat for your blood type' or something. DH is A+ and they had him basically on a very low carb style diet and me at B+ as moderation- that I needed to have some of everything or I would feel deprived and fail.

Sorry I don't have the exact book, it was from the library.

DH didn't read the book and truely follow a healthy low carb diet. He does'nt follow any diet for that matter so he has not been successful at any of them.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mattia*
BTW, Brayg, those are some of the quotes that were getting my very loose undies in a wad, too.

















:


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## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brayg*
:LOL

I hope you all don't think I'm an absolute nut--just trying to show where I felt the conversation taking a turn for the worse and where the defensiveness arose from.









I see your point. I'm so in the habit of skimming the short "from the hip" responses in a thread that I think I missed a lot of these.

OTOH, I think probably where most people were coming from is a place where people they know are buying into the "low carb craze" and think if they order "low carb" entrees from a restaurant and buy Atkins brownies and such that they're doing the low carb thing. I for one have known way too many people whose idea of low carb was double cheeseburgers without the bread, steak, and bacon and eggs. My DH's two bosses are like that; he comes home and tells me about the enormous amounts of greasy meats they eat and just shakes his head at it.

It sounds like you all are certainly "doing it right" and not like the majority of people I have known (and probably others who posted the unfavorable/offensive comments).

I disagree with Suse that the thread started ugly. I think the OP has a valid point about the pervasiveness of the ads. I think a whole, whole lot of people are misinformed about the intents of the Atkins diet and are really being sucked into this marketing blitz. What's the difference with being angry about that and being angry about formula companies' marketing? It's big money taking advantage of ignorance, and it's shameful.

ETA: I have learned a lot about these diets on this thread and you all have corrected some of my misperceptions about it, for which I thank you.


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## lao80 (Feb 24, 2004)

OMG this bugs the freaking crap out of me. Dh and I rant on and on about it.

I was at Target getting some M&M's and they had a whole section of low carb candy. You know what....if you want to lose weight STOP EATING F*^(ING CANDY.


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## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magemom*
I don't remember what the book was called- 'eat for your blood type' or something. DH is A+ and they had him basically on a very low carb style diet and me at B+ as moderation- that I needed to have some of everything or I would feel deprived and fail.

Sorry I don't have the exact book, it was from the library.

Yes, I believe that is Peter D'Amo (?) book. I cannot imagine the recommendation to be low carb for an A positive blood type! That blood type needs carbs. No dairy for A positive and coffee helps to build more stomach acid (something that blood type tends to be low in). Lots of soy as well. That blood type does the best as a vegetarian.


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

lao, i hope i'll see you with a protest sign outside target trying to get them to take the diabetic candy off the shelves, too. fair's fair. ('who do these fat people think they are, wanting to have a piece of chocolate? no treats for you!')

tracymom, thank you for reading the entire thread and seeing what we were talking about for yourself. it was the kneejerk negativity & judgement, not thoughtful questioning (and willingness to listen) that put the burr under my saddle.

suse


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lao80*
OMG this bugs the freaking crap out of me. Dh and I rant on and on about it.

I was at Target getting some M&M's and they had a whole section of low carb candy. You know what....if you want to lose weight STOP EATING F*^(ING CANDY.

See, and this is the reeky







ignorance that irritates the carp out of me. Do you think that diabetics/sugar addicts (yes, it's a real thing--much like alcoholism or any substance addiction)/low carbers aren't allowed a treat every now and then without blowing their entire diet or putting their blood sugar spinning out of control? Do non-alcoholic beverages, such as O'Douls bother you this much too? Because if alcoholics want to quit, STOP DRINKING F*^(ING ALCOHOL. Do nicotine patches/gums/etc. bother you too? Because if they want to quit smoking, they just need to stop smoking F*ing cigarettes too. Sheesh.









Why does this all bother people so much? If you aren't buying the products, how is it affecting you? Sure--we are being inundated by advertising for all of this, but if it isn't low carb, it's beer advertising. Football advertising. Advertising in general goes way off the deep end when it comes to beating product recognition into our brains. That's why it costs so much. I'm tired of Subway commercials, Budweiser commercials, Fruit Rollup Commercials, etc. but I'm not getting as p*ssed off about them as some of you seem to be about low carb products. Who cares? If it doesn't pertain to you, put your blinders on as you make your way up to the checkout stand with your frozen pizza and pop tarts. (which is no healthier than said low carb "fad" products, IMO)


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brayg*
Do you think that diabetics/sugar addicts (yes, it's a real thing--much like alcoholism or any substance addiction)/low carbers aren't allowed a treat every now and then?

I didn't post that original comment - thank goodness







! However, I did want to chime in that I am sure that most of us have no problem with the idea that you get treats, too







: ! I eat soy ice cream, not b/c I think that it enhances the nutritional status of my vegan diet, but b/c I like it & I'm not out to feel deprived - no reason that you cannot do the same.

I must admit that I have never been really overweight, as many of you state you were prior to going LC. I could probably eat 24/7 & not wind up significantly overweight, so I am in no position to judge anyone's weight loss plan/diet.

I do think that what someone said a while back about good carbs vs. low carbs may be a better way to couch it. I think (?) that we all can agree that refined carbs are not good for you. Even those of us who would never dream of going low carb should try to minimize refined carbs. I do the best I can in that arena, but I am not perfect about it since it is harder to totally eliminate something when it is not showing an immenent effect on your health & you have no moral calling to do so (as I did to eliminate animal products). I didn't take to kindly to those who stated that vegan diets were unhealthy, so I am not in the least surprised that it would be offensive to those on a LC diet to hear how their diet is crummy in others' views.

I do know that those people whom I know who say that they are "doing Atkins" eat a lot of meat & seemingly little else. Perhaps it would be better for you LCers to call yourselves healthy carbers







, as it sounds like that is more of what you are doing than cutting all carbohydrates.

And, yes, the low-fat stuff strikes me as as much junk/marketing propaganda as the low carb snacks do. We all need some junk, though. A friend of mine (who is very overweight) followed the low fat stuff for years when that was the rage. She lived on Snackwells, lite mayo, low fat this, that & the other. She is still very overweight. I believe that she is on the Schwarzbein Principle diet now. I'm not too familiar with the specifics of that one. I know that not all people who are following a LC diet eat packaged junk food as the main source of their nutrition, but I think that the media blitz is the source of the irritation here.

Carbohydrates are being made into the fats of the 2000s. All fats are not bad for you as all carbohydrates are not bad for you. I'm sure that most of you get that, but I am not sure that most of the viewing public does. That end of it is irritating.


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## pln (Jan 25, 2003)

Brayg said:
"Why does this all bother people so much? If you aren't buying the products, how is it affecting you?"

Hi! Just wanted to chime in here about how this affects us "ordinary" people
with two points:

1) At our local supermarket, they have taken away one whole aisle from the
health foods section and turned it into low-carb. In the process they have
removed many of the whole grains that I used to buy there (millet, quinoa,
bulk nutritional yeast, and whole wheat pastry flour) so that they can now
sell Atkins bars, Atkins shakes, and a whole other group of processed foods.
Keep in mind that there were only four aisles of specifically "health-food"
oriented products anyway, including the bulk aisle. Now I have to take an
extra trip to our whole foods market where I pay 2X as much for the same
bulk whole grains. They have also removed four brands of orange juice,
including the organic one, so that they can now put in the
"carb-smart" milk. We no longer buy the organic OJ b/c we can't afford the
price at the whole grocer. So the low-carb convenience craze IS affecting
me in the pocketbook, where it hurts.

2) Two of our local independent bread bakeries have now closed down or
have raised prices significantly because of the decreased business. Where have
the people gone? Certainly some of them that I know personally have gone to
BK or Subway. One of these bakeries is owned by my neighbor, who is reportedly
having a really hard time and may have to declare bankruptcy soon. It makes me
angry that the ads (not the dieters, but the ads) are running good people out of
business with their misinformation. Just one more local business committed
to local products, and organic breads, run out of business by Subway & BK.

Frankly, I think different diets work for different people depending on your
activity level, metabolism, and genetics. I think some people do respond to
a low-carb diet--I don't know why, and I really don't care why. More power
to them for trying to get healthy in any way they can. I also hope the makers
of soft bread with caramel coloring are run out of business, along with all the
other junk foods that shouldn't be on ANYBODY's shopping list.
If you looked at my shopping list, you might think that I was on a low-carb
diet simply because there are no processed foods or white pasta on it. I just
find it ridiculous that instead of lowering the price of freerange chicken or organic
broccoli, the low-carb trend has increased the number of processed foods
available.

I am not on any kind of diet b/c I don't need to be. I'm not LUCKY, I'm
just healthy and proud of it. I work hard to stay healthy and keep my
family healthy and I resent the implication that it's just "luck." If it means actually
planning ahead and shopping well to make my family healthy foods, getting up at 5 a.m.
to go for a run, or spending part of my weekends cooking
ahead for my family, then so be it. I don't begrudge anybody's right to have a candy
bar (yum) or a whole bag of cheetos (yuk). It is just frustrating when the
"trends" impinge upon my efforts to do what's right for my family by making
MY life more expensive and more inconvenient, or when folks who take
shortcuts (maybe not anyone here, but certainly SOMEONE is buying those bars)
get to spend less on their food budget than I do.

Ciao,
Priya


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN*
Carbohydrates are being made into the fats of the 2000s. All fats are not bad for you as all carbohydrates are not bad for you. I'm sure that most of you get that, but I am not sure that most of the viewing public does. That end of it is irritating.

Exactly!


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

I can understand that...but not all grocery stores do that. And it's not *my* fault that the grocery stores do that. Of course, they aren't going to do it if people aren't buying the stuff, and obviously people are, but I could complain that my grocery store has a whole aisle full of soda pop and potato chips but I accept it if I want to shop there.

I think the people who are "low carbing" that don't do it right and don't understand it are pretty disgraceful to the cause. It undermines what the rest of us are trying to do and it creates a negative stigma (as we've seen here, by some of the comments that were made) to the point where I don't even say that I "low carb" when people ask how I lost weight. I explain my diet in detail so that they don't look at me like just another fad diet follower. That stinks.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

Well it took me two days of reading (I only get so much time on the computer LOL) to get thru this.
I just wanted to add that I am also frusterated with the ads for "LOW CARB" this and that. I hated it a few years ago when "LOW FAT" was all the crazy. Like someone else mentioned an apple is low fat, and broccoli is low carb. But now they have signs all over the store telling people what they can and can't have.
I also have a problem with the "junk" food marketed as being good for you with any diet crazy. Whether it is Snack Well cookies for the low fat or fat free or the Atkin's friendly foods for the low carb eater. NOT that everyone needs to eat high fat high refined sugar foods if they want to snack, I just feel that it is "pushed" so to speak as a good way to eat.
Everyone Iknow who has done a "low carb" diet has relied on meat and fat as there main foods (not having read a single book) and all this processed food crap. Same with the low fat/fat free diets a few years ago. Anything that said low fat was OK to eat, and that just isn't so.
I had NO IDEA until I read this thread that anyone on an Atkin's like diet actually ate a whole foods diet. Honestly everyone I know who does a low carb diet eats like crap. It made me batty. It is honestly nice to know there are people out there who eat well.
I too stuggle with refined foods (mostly the white flour thing...) and so I work hard to buy whole grains and such.
I guess some of the marketing of produce isn't bad if it actually gets people to remeber to eat their fruits and vegetables. But honestly the people I know probably don't even get past the meat counter, and processed food ilses to see what there is in the produce section. Pretty sad.
Any diet "craze" makes me nuts, because it is assumed that this diet (no matter what kind it is) is best for everyone. Which isn't true. I guess that is what is so frusterating for me.

H


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:

when folks who take shortcuts (maybe not anyone here, but certainly SOMEONE is buying those bars)
get to spend less on their food budget than I do.
I just had to comment on that--have you priced those low carb products? There is nothing cheap about them. I highly doubt that even a person that does nothing but subsist solely on low carb products can get by cheaper.


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## pln (Jan 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brayg*
I just had to comment on that--have you priced those low carb products? There is nothing cheap about them. I highly doubt that even a person that does nothing but subsist solely on low carb products can get by cheaper.


Obviously this would depend on how much one eats of any given product.
We do spend a significant amount on food and are okay with that EXCEPT
that it seems like any trend that happens tends to increase the prices of
our products. Like someone said before, I do wish someone would come
out with a book that would make OUR stuff cheaper and more easily
accessible.

One another thing I wanted to bring up. I have actually read the SBD (but
not Atkins) and agree generally with a lot of his points. However, I think
he would agree that whole foods should make up the bulk of one's diet, no
matter WHAT kind of diet you sould follow. I have a lot fo respect for Dr.
Agatson.

I have NO respect for Dr. Atkins (rest in peace) or his family for putting his
name on a line of processed foods that are FULL of transfats and carcinogens.
That's what really gets me peeved when I walk by that new aisle in our
store--that healthy, whole grain products have been replaced by transfats,
carcinogens, and WHITE FLOUR processed foods. Read the label of those
Atkins products. You'll see what I mean.

I wish Dr. Agatson would come right out and pan those processed bars. Then
I might be less angry about the low-carb thing and believe that they're really
interested in health as opposed to profit.


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## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brayg*
I think the people who are "low carbing" that don't do it right and don't understand it are pretty disgraceful to the cause. It undermines what the rest of us are trying to do and it creates a negative stigma (as we've seen here, by some of the comments that were made) to the point where I don't even say that I "low carb" when people ask how I lost weight. I explain my diet in detail so that they don't look at me like just another fad diet follower. That stinks.









been thinking about this. How about terming it "increasing whole food," "limiting sugar" (since we know that simple carbohydrates are a form of sugar) and the like. You may get out of a lengthy explanation that way, getting an "ahhh" instead of a "huh?" from most people. And some may be interested enough to ask for the details and try it themselves.


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## tricia80 (Oct 28, 2003)

Ok im back....







:

i have no issues with the ppl who do the low carb lifestyle correctly...

I HATE ADVERTISING!!!!!!!!!

and low carb is definately annoying me with all the commercials and billboards etc... its jus annoying having it constantly in ur face....

im not skinny at all... and i do know what it is like to wanna lose weight and im definately not attacking fat ppl....

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG


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## lao80 (Feb 24, 2004)

Actually we don't eat crap food, pizza and poptarts. We eat whole foods. I'm sick of hearing about all of these fad diets and so on. No one wants to invest the time in proper nutrition and a healthy lifestyle. It's all quick fix. Don't change your lifestyle so that you are heathy, do this for awhile and lose some weight.

Someone uses a nictoine patch/gum it's not a fake cig. They are actively changing a habit. How does a habit change when while I'm doing my low carb diet I go and buy a low-carb snickers.

Do you think these people are going to be on a low carb diet forever? If so you really might want to do some more research on nutrition.


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## lao80 (Feb 24, 2004)

I wanted to say sorry and clarify. I understand the "real" low carb diet and while I think all fruits and vegs are fine and unprocessed carbs. I should say what I don't like about the low carb diet is the commercial low carb diet. Not just candy in Target, or whatever, but people using it as an out to eat high fat, high protein and no permanent healthy change in habit.

I apologize to those who are making healthy changes.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pln*
I have NO respect for Dr. Atkins (rest in peace) or his family for putting his
name on a line of processed foods that are FULL of transfats and carcinogens.
That's what really gets me peeved when I walk by that new aisle in our
store--that healthy, whole grain products have been replaced by transfats,
carcinogens, and WHITE FLOUR processed foods. Read the label of those
Atkins products. You'll see what I mean.

SBD is very similar to Atkins, and the author credits Dr. Atkins for his ground-breaking work. So really you should thank Dr. Atkins for paving the way for diets like the SBD.

BTW, Atkins has been ANTI-transfats for over 3 decades now, and you will NEVER see hydrogenated oils of any sort in the Atkins products... and their products certainly don't contain white flour. But don't let the facts stand in the way of your opinion.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

BTW, I wish this way of eating was called "healthy-carbing" or something like that. Then maybe so many folks wouldn't be so quick to assume that we're eliminating the healthful carbs in favor of bacon grease and processed foods.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

I share another board with Lindsey, and have been discussing this with her there, after reading her comment today. I'll c&p my response to her comments here...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lao80*
Do you think these people are going to be on a low carb diet forever? If so you really might want to do some more research on nutrition.

Uh, YEA! People who do this way of eating for life *will* make this a lifestyle change, and WILL continue to do their low-carb eating for life. The low-carb products are there for us who *ARE* making this a LIFESTYLE, but would like an occassional treat. I am human, afterall, and like anyone else I should be able to occassionally indulge in something naughty. You know, like the "occassional treats" you eat? What makes me or any other person who's losing weight LESS deserving of an occassional treat? And why the hell do you get so bothered by the low-carb stuff that you and your DH "rant on and on about it"? Why is it SOOOOO different than the highly processed crap you enjoy???

For what it's worth, YOU are getting shortchanged too, everytime you eat licorice or any of the other candies you post about eating. That stuff is just as crappy as the stuff you're complaining about, so where do you get off?

Also, my way of eating is not a fad, nor is it a freaking "quick fix". Your response above is more inflammatory than your original statement. As I said, my diet is probably healthier than yours, so where do you get off telling me or anyone else who chooses to low-carb that "no one wants to invest the time in proper nutrition and a healthy lifestyle"??? WTF?!

I think *you* need to stop being ignorant and pick up a book yourself on nutrition, specifically low-carb nutrition. Because, frankly, you are talking out of your ass about something you obviously know NOTHING about, and you are most definitely offending me!


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lao80*
Not just candy in Target, or whatever, but people using it as an out to eat high fat, high protein and no permanent healthy change in habit.

Without all the junk carbs in my diet, of course my macronutrient balance is going to reflect a higher fat and protein percentage. I don't eat any more fat or protein today, than I have my entire adult life... even when I was lean and fit before gaining weight.

You are VERY misinformed.

BTW, I think the MAJORITY of LCers are trying to make healthy changes. Do all of us make the BEST choices, all the time? Absolutely not. But I'm sure they're BETTER choices than they USED to make... and every step is a step forward.

Why not show some compassion and understanding, and help to educate your family/friends about BETTER choices *they* can make while still LCing, instead of all this venting about some of the unhealthier choices some of these LCers are making? It sure would be more helpful.


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## lao80 (Feb 24, 2004)

I think the crap treats that I eat are just as bad as the lc crap treats. If people are making healthy lifestyle changes then a crap treat here or there is not going to hurt them. Just because it is a lc crap treat does not take away the fact that it's not good and that many people think they can over induldge on them. I feel the same about snackwells. Yah, they might be low fat but that doens't mean they don't have a ton of calories and questionable ingredients.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lao80*
I think the crap treats that I eat are just as bad as the lc crap treats. If people are making healthy lifestyle changes then a crap treat here or there is not going to hurt them. Just because it is a lc crap treat does not take away the fact that it's not good and that many people think they can over induldge on them. I feel the same about snackwells. Yah, they might be low fat but that doens't mean they don't have a ton of calories and questionable ingredients.

People over-indulge on crap treats while doing Weight Watchers, too. I never see these kind of vents about those who do that... why? Because WW is more socially acceptable, that's why.

Like I said before, and I'll keep saying it... because someone does a plan improperly, it does not mean that plan is flawed.


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## lao80 (Feb 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mattia*
People over-indulge on crap treats while doing Weight Watchers, too. I never see these kind of vents about those who do that... why? Because WW is more socially acceptable, that's why.

Like I said before, and I'll keep saying it... because someone does a plan improperly, it does not mean that plan is flawed.


You are right about WW, I have wondered that myself.

I also agree about your 2nd statement. The orginal plan is fine, more extreme then I think necessary but not harmful. The commercial lc food is not heathy for any length of time. Although, anyone in any diet relying on convience food to be healthy and meet all their needs is a bit deluded, isn't it?

You know what, you're right. I am talking out of my ass. Crap food is crap food. I think I'm being judgmental about advertising that bugs. All the crap food and convience food is representing a diet. If I were just seeing t.v. for the first time it would be the same for non lc food. Caprisun, doritos, licorice, fozen dinners that would be a terrible diet for anyone, too.


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## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mattia*
People over-indulge on crap treats while doing Weight Watchers, too. I never see these kind of vents about those who do that... why? Because WW is more socially acceptable, that's why.

Like I said before, and I'll keep saying it... because someone does a plan improperly, it does not mean that plan is flawed.

Come ON, y'all!!!! THis is ridiculous!!! Both of you calm the heck down! Please!

You don't see rants about it, Mattia, because all the advertising right now is for low carb. 15 years ago it was all low fat, and you know what, this board wasn't here then. I did MY ranting IRL then (and was a lot harder to live with than I am now, I suppose!)

I have to disagree with you about the majority of LC'ers doing it right. Of all the people I know "doing low carb" about one is doing it the right way. The rest think they can go eat all the meat and cheese and butter they want and they're all right. Like I said before, y'all have convinced me that there IS a right way, which is something I did not believe before.


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## glitterbits333 (Nov 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mattia*
People over-indulge on crap treats while doing Weight Watchers, too. I never see these kind of vents about those who do that... why? Because WW is more socially acceptable, that's why.

Like I said before, and I'll keep saying it... because someone does a plan improperly, it does not mean that plan is flawed.

For the purpose of this particular thread, it's not an issue, at least for me, because WW isn't what's being mashed into our faces every time we turn on the radio or shop at a grocery store. I don't like WW processed crap anymore than I like processed LC stuff. The difference is that LC is the current thing-to-do and is therefore more visible.

Your description of the way you eat sounds great to me, and I try to do the same as far as avoiding processed foods. This is not what people are getting annoyed about.

It's about the craze, not necessarily the original diet. It's about the advertising, not the people who are taking an active role in their health.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

We're calm, mama... just discussing.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *tracymom*
I have to disagree with you about the majority of LC'ers doing it right. Of all the people I know "doing low carb" about one is doing it the right way. The rest think they can go eat all the meat and cheese and butter they want and they're all right. Like I said before, y'all have convinced me that there IS a right way, which is something I did not believe before.

I never said the majority of low-carbers were doing it _right_. I said I think the majority are _trying to make healthy changes_. They may be misguided, but they are _trying_. I think many people don't even read the books, and just do what "their friend's secretary's son" does. KWIM? If everyone who tried to LC read their plan's book first, there'd be much less user error, and less misinformation that results from people DOING THEIR OWN lower-carb thing. Which is essentially what one is doing when they are not following a written plan.

I am very happy that this thread has helped you see the other side of the coin, btw. That's always a good thing.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glitterbits333*
For the purpose of this particular thread, it's not an issue, at least for me, because WW isn't what's being mashed into our faces every time we turn on the radio or shop at a grocery store. I don't like WW processed crap anymore than I like processed LC stuff. The difference is that LC is the current thing-to-do and is therefore more visible.

Your description of the way you eat sounds great to me, and I try to do the same as far as avoiding processed foods. This is not what people are getting annoyed about.

It's about the craze, not necessarily the original diet. It's about the advertising, not the people who are taking an active role in their health.

I get your point, and I understand. I hate ALL advertising, especially ads that are aimed at the young. It's really unfortunate that the low-carb marketing bonanza has made this way of eating even more misunderstood.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lao80*
You are right about WW, I have wondered that myself.

I also agree about your 2nd statement. The orginal plan is fine, more extreme then I think necessary but not harmful. The commercial lc food is not heathy for any length of time. Although, anyone in any diet relying on convience food to be healthy and meet all their needs is a bit deluded, isn't it?

You know what, you're right. I am talking out of my ass. Crap food is crap food. I think I'm being judgmental about advertising that bugs. All the crap food and convience food is representing a diet. If I were just seeing t.v. for the first time it would be the same for non lc food. Caprisun, doritos, licorice, fozen dinners that would be a terrible diet for anyone, too.

Thank you for seeing my point. I don't care that anyone thinks the LC products are crappy. They are, just like *any other processed foods*. My beef isn't with the opinion that these foods aren't good in excess, it's with the fact that while folks kvetch about the LC crap foods, they're not trashing the crap foods THEY most likely enjoy on occassion, too! If I were to sit here and talk about eating a LC ice cream bar, while ranting about all the white flour and sugar-laden crap out there, some of you would take offense, too.

I am glad you understand where I was coming from, Lindsey. Thanks for discussing this with me.


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## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mattia*
I never said the majority of low-carbers were doing it _right_. I said I think the majority are _trying to make healthy changes_. They may be misguided, but they are _trying_. I think many people don't even read the books, and just do what "their friend's secretary's son" does. KWIM? If everyone who tried to LC read their plan's book first, there'd be much less user error, and less misinformation that results from people DOING THEIR OWN lower-carb thing. Which is essentially what one is doing when they are not following a written plan.

I stand corrected. Sorry!

I couldn't agree more.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

So, I've got a question. Someone mentioned a while back that it was possible to do LC as a vegetarian. Now, there is no possibility that I am going LC, but I was just curious. I have been vegan for almost 16 yrs now & I know that the comment wasn't about LC vegan being possible, just vegetarian.

So, out of curiosity, I clicked on a link that popped up on AOL for Atkins. It basically said, 'click here for your customized Atkins diet.' It linked me to a page where you could put in you height, weight, etc. & then there were a bunch of boxes that you could click if you wanted to exclude various foods from your diet. The possible foods that you could exclude were fish, poultry, red meat, dairy, eggs, soy & maybe a few more. Soy was the only non-animal product. So, I clicked on exclude for all of the meat items (fish, poultry, red meat, etc.). It popped up a big exclamation point stating that I "must" include at least one of the "major protein sources - poultry, fish, meat, etc." There was no possibility for customizing a vegetarian plan.

So, my question is, can one truly do Atkins as a vegetarian? If not, do the other LC plans differ enough from Atkins such that one could do them as a vegetarian? And, I know us vegis hate this question, but where does one get protein as a LC vegetarian if you are excluding beans, and most common sources of vegetarian protein?


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## lao80 (Feb 24, 2004)

The more I was thinking about this, I'm always happy when there are more vegetarian things on a menu, even when I'm not a vegetarian right now. I can see it would be nice to have lc stuff on a menu, too. You're taking a gamble when you eat out anyway. This is the first big diet I've seen where there are so many options at different places. I mean they have some WW stuff, and some low fat stuff. There have to be so many people doing lc (right or wrong) for companies to take notice. And then of course to take advantage of and try to make money off of. Some catering to need and some trying to fill the gaps they're losing.


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## lao80 (Feb 24, 2004)

It seems like there should be a more public way to do lc correctly. I mean I wouldn't just get phen phen from a friend and take it. What you eat really affects your health, not just weight.


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## pln (Jan 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mattia*
SBD is very similar to Atkins, and the author credits Dr. Atkins for his ground-breaking work. So really you should thank Dr. Atkins for paving the way for diets like the SBD.

BTW, Atkins has been ANTI-transfats for over 3 decades now, and you will NEVER see hydrogenated oils of any sort in the Atkins products... and their products certainly don't contain white flour. But don't let the facts stand in the way of your opinion.










Not sure why I deserved this bit of snarkiness, when my original post was quite supportive, really...

Just wanted to make a quick note about some of the ingredients in some of tehse bars...

1) soy nuggets are often made with oat flour...note that they do not say "whole grain oat flour" just oat flour, hence it's not white WHEAT flour, but white flour all the same...

2) many bars contain coconut oil (50% Medium-chain triglycerides) which, if not SPECIFIED as virgin coconut oil, DOES contain transfats. a few bars also contain palm kernel oil and soybean oil, which can also quickly develop transfats if not properly processed.

3) many bars contain splenda, caramel color, maltodextrin (a fancy word for a form of sugar), cochineal extract, and "natural and artificial colors," all of which have various health issues attached to them. just google to find the various issues.

Those are the "facts," not my "opinion." In fact, the Atkins bars are the least offensive of any of the low-carb bars--if you look up some of the others, like Pure Delight, CarboLite, etc.

Here are the ingredients to the CarboLite blueberry bar:

Blueberry filling (Maltitol, Sorbitol, Modified Tapioca Starch, Water, Natural Flavor, Glycerine, Pectin, Citric Acid, Locust Bean Gum, Red #40, Blue #1), Maltitol Syrup, Corn Starch, Palm Shortening (Non-Hydrogenated Palm Oil), Isomalt, Whey Protein Concentrate, Enriched Bleached Wheat Flour (Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Polydextrose, Wheat Protein Concentrate, Isolated Soy Protein, Vegetable Glycerine, Wheat Bran Flour, Powered Cellulose (high fiber source), Salt, Baking Soda, Mono- and Diglycerides, Soy Lecithin, Vegetable Gum (Carrageenan, Sodium Chloride), Natural Flavors, Monocalcium Phosphate, Sucralose (a sugarless sweetener).

Doesn't look like a health food to me. Even if Atkins, Agatson, etc. don't endorse these products, I still say that they should come out against them and should not have included some of them in the good fats/good carbs whatever book. I'm sure that anyone really following the program wouldn't be eating that stuff anyway.

Anyway, hope everyone is eating in good health and spirits, no matter what kind of eating philosophy we are each following.


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN*
So, my question is, can one truly do Atkins as a vegetarian? If not, do the other LC plans differ enough from Atkins such that one could do them as a vegetarian? And, I know us vegis hate this question, but where does one get protein as a LC vegetarian if you are excluding beans, and most common sources of vegetarian protein?

Yes, I promise you, it can be done.







I think eDiets is a bit _off_ on a few things, not just this.

Here's a good page with some info on LC vegetarian choices. The person who authored the page does eat fish, but not all do.

http://www.immuneweb.org/lowcarb/

Here are some good sources of protein for a vegetarian LCer, from that page:

http://www.immuneweb.org/lowcarb/food/protein.html

Dr. Diana Schwarzbein has a LC plan called 'The Schwarzbein Principle' ... she has a vegetarian cookbook that can be purchased seperately, so her plan specifically is VERY vegetarian-friendly. I think Atkins is probably the hardest to follow as a vegetarian initially, because of it's strict induction phase... but overall, most LC plans do seem pretty vegetarian friendly. Of course, one does not have to follow Atkins' Induction to successfully lose weight. Look at me, I didn't!


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pin*
I have NO respect for Dr. Atkins (rest in peace) or his family for putting his
name on a line of processed foods that are FULL of transfats and carcinogens.
That's what really gets me peeved when I walk by that new aisle in our
store--that healthy, whole grain products have been replaced by transfats,
carcinogens, and WHITE FLOUR processed foods. Read the label of those
Atkins products. You'll see what I mean.

You made SPECIFIC claims against the ATKINS products. Claims that are just plain wrong... but just more misinformation in a thread filled with misinformation. Sorry I came off snarky, but I am not sorry for correcting you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pln*
In fact, the Atkins bars are the least offensive of any of the low-carb bars--if you look up some of the others, like Pure Delight, CarboLite, etc.

As for the rest of those products, if they don't have the Atkins label on them, they are not associated with the good Dr's plan. Yes, Atkins Nutritionals puts out LC convenience products, because they realized a life-long dietary change has to be inclusive of the occassional treat. Folks are encouraged to eat these sparingly in the later versions of the book, btw(the book was around LONG before the products). Yes, most ingredients in the LC junk foods are not fit for regular and excessive human consumption... but can't that be said for ANY junk food?


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pln*
Doesn't look like a health food to me. Even if Atkins, Agatson, etc. don't endorse these products, I still say that they should come out against them and should not have included some of them in the good fats/good carbs whatever book.

No LC program calls these products "heath foods." In fact, I don't even think I've seen advertisers claim these products are "health foods." What I have seen are advertisments that claim that these products are for those who are on a LC lifestyle, but would still like to enjoy _______ .

Quote:

I'm sure that anyone really following the program wouldn't be eating that stuff anyway.
People will, and do. For the same reason ANYONE eats junk. To satisfy an urge/craving/etc. Just because one is following a LC plan doesn't mean they should NEVER have an occassional snack that is not a whole food. There are folks who don't subscribe to any particular plan, who eat whole foods and make healthy choices every day. Even people like this eat the occassional candy bar, etc. Do you eat whole foods 100% of the time? I have for months now, but it's not easy. Nor do I think I could do it for the rest of my life, without even a bite of chocolate, or a pretzel. If you can do it, good for you!









Quote:

Anyway, hope everyone is eating in good health and spirits, no matter what kind of eating philosophy we are each following.









Ditto!


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## Mattia (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lao80*
It seems like there should be a more public way to do lc correctly. I mean I wouldn't just get phen phen from a friend and take it. What you eat really affects your health, not just weight.

It's about personal responsibility. Each person has to seek out the information, and do the leg work. If someone is going to be so lazy that they can't/won't pick up a book and read it, then what are ya going to do? It's their life... if they don't care enough about their health to seek information that will help them achieve their goals, then who WILL care enough?

THIS is what's infuriating to me:

Those who do _their own_ half-assed versions of what they _perceive_ to be Atkins or whichever plan they're supposedly following... THEN these people tell others "OH! I'm doing Atkins!", or whatever plan... which gives others a false representation of what Atkins(etc) REALLY is! THAT infuriates me to no end, because then people like me who are actually doing these plans as intended have to defend ourselves, CONSTANTLY, against the misinformation and untruths these people perpetuate about our chosen way of eating. It sucks, and it's got to stop! If only these people would just say "I'm doing my own version of a low-carb diet!" ... then others can judge them based on their poor decision-making, instead of judging a plan that's not even being represented properly. *sigh*


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## pln (Jan 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mattia*
No LC program calls these these prodcuts "heath foods." In fact, I don't even think I've seen advertisers claim these products are "health foods."

Many of them are called meal replacements in the advertising, and are located in the health foods section of my grocery store, so I think some folks might be thinking that they actually ARE health foods.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mattia*
For the same reason ANYONE eats junk. To satisfy an urge/craving/etc.
I guess if one is following a LC plan they should NEVER have an occassional snack that is not a whole food? Don't you think that's kind of a lofty expectation for another human being? Do you eat whole foods 100% of the time? I have for months now, but it's not easy. Nor do I think I could do it for the rest of my life, without even a bite of chocolate, or a pretzel. If you can do it, good for you!










Good lord, no. I'm just saying that having these processed quick foods be the major commercial change that happens in our food industry as a result of the current LC trend is not healthy. Like I said in my earlier post, I don't begrudge ANYBODY (least of all myself) a snack here and again. But as meal replacement? No. But I think we'd agree about that.

As far as the individual products go, I think the ingredients lists (of Atkins and the others that I posted) speak for themselves. I made a statement about the Atkins products and I posted evidence behind the Atkins products. Like I said, I think white oat flour in Atkins bars is a lot more benign than Red #1 or whatever in Carbolite, but that still doesn't mean it's white-flour free. These two bars are right next to each other in the health foods section, and I often wonder if people think they are identical adn so buy the Carbolite because it's a cheaper health food. But again, I don't really have a huge problem with their existence (since conventional, non-LC products like these exist too) except for the fact that they've taken over shelf space that used to belong to whole grains. I miss my bulk millet.
















T but I have to say that I used to be a big fan of Laughing Cow cheese in college, WAY before the LC craze, and now I hear there's a shortage? My husband has had his way and we have now switched to goat cheese or cheddar for our crackers, but way back when I never realized I was eating LC. Lol.


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## lao80 (Feb 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mattia*
Those who do _their own_ half-assed versions of what they _perceive_ to be Atkins or whichever plan they're supposedly following... THEN these people tell others "OH! I'm doing Atkins!", or whatever plan... which gives others a false representation of what Atkins(etc) REALLY is! THAT infuriates me to no end, because then people like me who are actually doing these plans as intended have to defend ourselves, CONSTANTLY, against the misinformation and untruths these people perpetuate about our chosen way of eating. It sucks, and it's got to stop! If only these people would just say "I'm doing my own version of a low-carb diet!" ... then others can judge them based on their poor decision-making, instead of judging a plan that's not even being represented properly. *sigh*

Kinda sounds like people who have a "natural birth" and they mean an epiduril (I can't spell that)


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lao80*
Kinda sounds like people who have a "natural birth" and they mean an epiduril (I can't spell that)

LMAO!


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