# would you rf 16 years?



## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I was watching a tlc ? show on a girl who despite being 16 years old still looked like a baby the size of an average 11 month old and weighs around 16lbs http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Health/St...7880954&page=1 sadly her congitive development are also around that of an 11 month old. Anyways I noticed that while shes was still obviously in a car seat (looked a lot like a britax) she was foward facing. I at first thought hey at her size and weight she should be rear facing.. However then I tried to picture 16 years of never seeing my childs face as I glanced back... so just courious would you keep a child rf for ever?

Deanna


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

There is no forward-facing seat rated down to 16#, so I probably would keep her RFing.

If she was 30# and 16yo? I don't know. It would depend on her actual diagnosis and condition.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

In a case such as that, if she showed no signs of being uncomfortable, I would rear face her. If it seemed to be inappropriate for her due to medical needs or special circumstances, I would ff her in as appropriate of a seat as I could find.

-Angela


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## Madders (Jul 15, 2009)

Yes, of course. This child is developmentally (physically and mentally) an average sized infant. I would not think of turning a child of that weight forward facing.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

See I'm jsut not positive I could say the same (and thankfully don't have to make that choice) my gut was to say she should be rear facing period still to think that I'd Never turn my child I'm not sure if I could... but then forbid a crash happened and the impact on a child her size...

Deanna


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Yes, of course. There is no seat that allows a 16 lb child to FF, and developmentally she is the size of an infant, so yes she would be RF.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Madders* 
Yes, of course. This child is developmentally (physically and mentally) an average sized infant. I would not think of turning a child of that weight forward facing.

She *may not* (I don't know) be developmentally an infant. Her head may be more in proportion to her body; her spinal vertebrae may be stronger. Those are considerations.

There is no seat in which a 16# child can safely forward-face, so that would make my decision easy. If she did meet the minimum FFing weight, I *might* (depending on what else is happening medically) consider turning a 16-*year*-old at a weight I would never turn a 16-*month*-old.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

The geek in me first thought "she's an elf!!" because, really that's how those fantasy races who live to be 200-300 years old would mature.

I think the worst would be to have a child that small who was able to understand they had to be rearfacing but wasn't mature enough to really get why it was important.

A 16 year old who is in all ways developmentally more like an 11 month old, definitely rearfacing.

A 16 year old who happens to be very very small and light? Then it'd really depend on development of the neck muscles and spine and on how the child felt about things.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I read somewhere that while shorter her bones measured that of an average 10 year old development wise however it seems her brain is still that of a newborns...

Quote:

In 2009, Walker said: "There've been very minimal changes in Brooke's brain ... Various parts of her body, rather than all being at the same stage, seem to be disconnected." Walker noted that Greenberg's brain, for example, is not much more mature than that of a newborn infant. He estimates her mental age at around 9 months to a year old. Brooke can make gestures and recognize sounds, but cannot speak. Her bones, although still abnormally short, are around 10 years old, as determined by the maturity of the cells and structures. And despite being a teenager, she still has her baby teeth, which have an estimated developmental age of about eight years.[3]
Deanna


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## azmomtoone (Aug 30, 2008)

The story doesn't say, but from the pics, it looks like she can't sit up on her own....if that's the case, definitely RF. If she can sit up, and is mentally old enough to want to FF....hard to say. There's a good chance, if she's able to understand that RF is for babies, she might also realize that most kids her age are not in a carseat at all, and want out of it altogether.... of course she wouldn't fit in a seatbelt.... just have to find a compromise that works in that case? Of course, I imagine carseats are the least of their worries....


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## StoriesInTheSoil (May 8, 2008)

She can sit up and crawl but I would still rear-face her. I thought the EXACT same thing when I saw her in the car, Deanna!


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## ElaineBenes (Aug 14, 2009)

Yes, of course.


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

It's hard to say. Sure, there are no seats that ff under 20 lbs, but realistically, that is because they are assuming the seats are being used for very small infants and toddlers that have no business ff'ing, not a 16 year old with more mature bones. If the harness fit correctly, I wouldn't think a 16 lb OLDER CHILD would be unsafe in a seat that was rated for only over 20 lbs ff'ing. That's just my opinion.

As for safety? Sure it's safer. I can guarantee you that is the least of their worries. This girl obviously has severe medical problems. If you can expect your child to die at any moment, a small safety advantage in the car (and yes I consider it small at 16 years old) is not a priority.

Would her medical condition prevent her from ff'ing? Absolutely not. Just because she can't sit up doesn't mean she can't ff. Lots of ff'ing seats recline. DD has less tone than that girl and could comfortably ff in a SS2, among other ff'ing seats.

I really, really hate that they say she has the mental capacity of a newborn. It so hard to test the IQ of someone who physically can't show or tell you what they are thinking. Any doctor would tell you my DD is a newborn mentally because she is completely non-verbal, has difficulty making eye contact, can't use sign language, ect but she is absolutely farther along than that. There are NO standards for testing people of such severe physical disability. It's impossible to find out what's REALLY going on in their brains. And to assume she doesn't have an opinion is just wrong. I would probably assume she's "in there" and treat her like her peers and personally I don't see a need to rf past age 6 or so. I don't believe it's right to treat someone like an infant or young child just because they look/act like one. I talk to DD like a typical 2 year old, not a newborn. To do differently is insulting to her.

I do wish someone would educate the family on car seat usage though. Whether she's rf or ff she needs to be harnessed properly. I think their decision to ff her is completely justifiable though.


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

Having worked with teenagers and adults with similar levels of physical and developmental issues, although generally not that small, I would almost definitely FF her. Convincing the world to see and treat adults with significant intellectual disabilities as adults, with the respect that comes with age, is a huge task, and one that has profound impact on their quality of life. When I see people here referring to this woman as "developmentally like an 11 month old", I'm reminded of how far we need to go. While she may have some of the same skills as many 11 year olds, she is other ways a young woman with very different developmental needs.

Having said that, I think the BEST way for her to travel would likely be in a wheelchair with appropriate tie downs. Wheelchairs with appropriate restraint systems, both for restraining the wheelchair in the vehicle and harnessing the individual in the chair, are a safe way to travel. Having this young woman in a wheelchair that places her at eye levels with others her age, and maybe gives her some independent mobility would serve as reminder to those who care for and interact with her that she is no longer a child.

I think this is one of those cases where one makes the decision that quality of life is worth some risks.


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## katie9143 (Oct 3, 2006)

everytime i turn around or look in the mirror at my child who is too heavy and tall for a rfing seat, i get the little fear feeling in my stomach. i hate that she is ffing. so yes, unless there was a medical reason, i would DEFINITELY rf her!


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## LizaBear (Feb 1, 2003)

As she does not meet the minimum weight requirements for any forward-facing carseat, I would certainly rear-face her.

If such time comes that she gains enough weight to meet the minimum weight requirements, then I would have a harder decision to make, and would weigh my options.


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## aja-belly (Oct 7, 2004)

i would almost definitely ff her. unless there was some reason why she needed to be rf still. the seats aren't rated for under 20 lbs ff, but there are alot of cases of seats being used outside of the manual for special needs. i probably also would avoid using a high chair or crib unless necessary as well. she is not an infant.


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## soxthecatrules (Oct 20, 2008)

I watched this episode also....FWIW...the push her around in a stroller. We have the exact same Peg Perego so I spied it in a heartbeat.

ETA: My point of the post is that I'm not sure they are overly concerned about trying to mainstream here....socially speaking. I recall the mom saying that she's always telling people who ask that the girl is 16 months or 14 months or whatever. I think when she was 14 yo the mom told people she was 14 months, i.e. Its been a month or so since I watched. Maybe I'm forgetting something.

I don't know what I would do regarding the carseat. As other posters have mentioned I think the subject of RF vs FF is the least of their worries.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I think that the carseat issue is the least of their worries with her medical issues, but with that in mind I think I'd like to take every precaution available to me to ensure I don't loose my daughter due to a stupid accident.

Her bones may be stronger, but she's unable to walk or sit up well. I would have her RF, personally. Mentally she's a 9 month old, I don't think it matters one way or the other for her.


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## soxthecatrules (Oct 20, 2008)

I have a co-worker that had a micro-preemie. It cost well over $1 million to save her. The baby is now in the 25-30lb range and is FF. I tried to explain the importance of ERF. Just by her reaction I could tell that the carseat issue was not one of their big concerns. I can tell you that if I had been through all of that to save my child I would make it a big concern! But, I also don't know a lot about the day to day details of the family. I know the babe is still hooked up to a feeding machine for at least 1/2 the day. So I am sure that factored into her response.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Intresting respnses I'll admit I'm still personally torn on both sides (if thats the right word) but just thankfull its not an issue I face and its extremly unlikely I ever will to the degree her parents face. Still its been an intresting thread









Quote:

I recall the mom saying that she's always telling people who ask that the girl is 16 months or 14 months or whatever. I think when she was 14 yo the mom told people she was 14 months, i.e. Its been a month or so since I watched. Maybe I'm forgetting something.
On the report I saw she said she just says like 16.. not 16 years or 16 months and leaves it up to the stranger to think what they want. Considering the extreme one of a kind thing with there DD issue I could totally see this.

Deanna


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

I've been following this and it occurred to me that 16 years ago, were there even laws about FF vs. rear facing? She's probably been sitting FF most of her life. I just don't think that due to her size and weight it may be appropriate for her to RF, plus it said her bones are like that of a 10 year old on extremely small. It is such a strange thing.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

At 16 pounds, yeah, she should be rf.


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## sunnymw (Feb 28, 2007)

If she were over 20lbs I might turn her FF. Otherwise, RF. Either way, I'd probably tighten that harness up a bunch!! (iirc, she's riding in a comfortsport... and hopefully it's not expired by now--she's probably one of the very few people on earth who A. didn't outgrow the comfortsport early, and B. uses seats TO their expirations!)


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

From what I have seen and read, rf.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

OMG, that seat in the picture is the actual carseat? I thought they were just using that as a chair for her at home. That thing looks like it was manufactured when she was born.

Oh, nvm, that picture is from when she's 3, and it's not a carseat at all. Whew.


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## aja-belly (Oct 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
OMG, that seat in the picture is the actual carseat? I thought they were just using that as a chair for her at home. That thing looks like it was manufactured when she was born.

Oh, nvm, that picture is from when she's 3, and it's not a carseat at all. Whew.

yeah, i'm pretty sure she was ff in a regular carseat - comfortsport maybe?


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## katieroo (Apr 12, 2009)

i don't know what kind of seat It was but regardless of RF of FF she still has internal organs that can be mushed because of the chest clip being so low. it is in the LOWEST possable position and the sholder straps arn't even on her sholders... it makes me sad. but it really makes you carfull what you wish for... how many times have you heard "I wish my baby would stay little forever"


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

I don't know. It would depend on her medical condition. They can test bones, to se what age her bone structure is, for instance. And how does her muscles develop, is her neck strong enough to ff. A lot of stuff like that would count here. Her docs would have to be in on the decision. It's more a medical one, to me.
They should harness her properly though, no matter what, those straps were way too loose.

But we'd have to get some kinda exception from the law too, it's illegal to ff anyone under 20 lbs. here.

I would not push her around in a stroller though, that's for sure. They say she has the personality of a 16 yo., and no 16 yo. I know would like to ride in a stroller. Wheelchair would be a clue here.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

The article states that her bone age is estimated as 10 years. Based on that, I would consider FFing her as long as the seat fit properly. As far as the law goes, most carseat laws only apply to children under a certain age (often 12), so a 16yo could legally FF in some states even if it is technically misuse of the seat since she is under 20#.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I think I would not make judgement because I have never talked her a single one of her doctors. I think we should be vary cautious on commenting. This has to be hard on her mom. The questions, the accusations, the judgements.


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## anj_rn (Oct 1, 2009)

An appropriate positioning wheelchair for a peson of that size would cost in the range of $3500. It is quite possible that the stroller and car seat are for financial concerns. It is also possible that the parents use the stroller because it draws less attention than the wheelchair.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momily* 
Having worked with teenagers and adults with similar levels of physical and developmental issues, although generally not that small, I would almost definitely FF her. Convincing the world to see and treat adults with significant intellectual disabilities as adults, with the respect that comes with age, is a huge task, and one that has profound impact on their quality of life. When I see people here referring to this woman as "developmentally like an 11 month old", I'm reminded of how far we need to go. While she may have some of the same skills as many 11 year olds, she is other ways a young woman with very different developmental needs.

Having said that, I think the BEST way for her to travel would likely be in a wheelchair with appropriate tie downs. Wheelchairs with appropriate restraint systems, both for restraining the wheelchair in the vehicle and harnessing the individual in the chair, are a safe way to travel. Having this young woman in a wheelchair that places her at eye levels with others her age, and maybe gives her some independent mobility would serve as reminder to those who care for and interact with her that she is no longer a child.

I think this is one of those cases where one makes the decision that quality of life is worth some risks.

Wheel chairs are generally seen as a last resort for traveling. They are not as safe and generally reserved for when the person gets too big to be lifted in and out of a seat by the caregiver. A 16# child, no matter their age, has no business being in a wheelchair in a vehicle IMO. This child sleeps in a crib and is pushed in a stroller. She is able to walk in a walker at the school she attends, she would not be able to push a wheelchair around manually or electronically.

She would be rfing in my vehicle. I would be more likely to ff the little girl, Kenadie, who is smaller than Brooke iirc but is mentally her age and is proportionate for her size and able to walk etc.


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