# again?



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

help me out here, please

I've posted about my unexpected pregnancy early this year, my subsequent miscarriage and recovery

can you believe it's all happening again? well the pregnancy bit

I can't post anywhere else as I could not imagine that the outcome will be any different this time, but my heart leaps anyway

I'm 41, have two lovely boys, have lost 3 babies at 8 weeks, am pretty good at accepting whatever shows up - what I need is grace to keep doing just that, accepting whatever shows up


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

Oh Emmaline







I wish you all the grace in the world & a beautiful baby in 9 months time. Look after yourself heaps. There's thread in TTC on how to keep a pregnancy which may have some helpful ideas


----------



## XM (Apr 16, 2002)

Pregnancy after loss is so difficult... but so is anything else worth doing. If there is one thing that I have clung to, it would be hope... when I can't be brave and I am done being angry, hope is all I have left.

So, please feel that it is okay to hope. This is a new baby, a new pregnancy. A new chance. Let your heart leap with that hope. Let it sustain you.

My heart goes out to you









XM


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

thanks so much both of you, I'm just sitting here letting the salt water run out of my eyes, adjusting


----------



## mamabeard (Sep 27, 2002)

oh, emmaline, i'm so happy for you.. i've also had two miscarriages in the last year, so i understand the mixed feelings. i will pray for you and your little baby.
take care


----------



## ladylee (Nov 20, 2001)

thinking of you too, sweet emmaline







...


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

thanks mamabeard and lee


----------



## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

emmaline, I keep thinking back of when I miscarried after ds. I felt so violated by my body. While pregnant with dd I was a bundle of nerves. You're feelings are very natural. One thing that comes to mind.

In your 40's it's possible that your Progesterone levels are low. Check with your doctor or midwife and see what they think of Progesterone supositories? It's something that helped with me. Of course I'm no medical expert, but it's worth asking about.

You're deep in my thoughts right now. Keep us posted and feel free to vent any time you need.


----------



## MossbackMeadow (Nov 1, 2002)

Emmaline,
I could have written your post. I'm a mom of 3 who has experienced 3 miscarriages, the most recent in Sept., and one vanished twin. I just found out I'm pregnant again too.

My well wishes, a hug, and a hot cup to tea to you! We have to start "here" if we want to get "there." Now, we need to get through the next 3 months without checking for blood everytime we hit the bathroom!


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

ms mom - I read about progesterone inthe thread OceanMomma mentioned and will discuss with my doc when I see her, thankyou

MossbackMeadow - hugs for you too, you're so right about having to start "here" , and you know all the women here will gladly support you too


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

Dear Friends

Today the sensible mask is slipping - I read an article about a woman who adopted a baby girl from China and have been a








mess.

I don't feel pregnant, and this is always a bad sign for me.


----------



## SummerLover (Nov 19, 2001)

Oh, hugs to you!

I just had a miscarriage a few weeks ago and just the thought of being pregnant again fills me with anxiety, but also with so much hope. All my good thoughts and wishes are with you.


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

thanks summerlover







to you too

I have been restored by some good kiddie-hugs with ds2


----------



## susan61 (Sep 14, 2002)

Ah ms emmaline







I just discovered this thread. Know that whatever transpires, I'm thinking of you. I've not been in your position, but think all this compassion I'm throwing your way is legitimate regardless. Keep us posted.
Peace,


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

thanks susan, it helps in some indefinable way to know there is cybersupport out there









btw, watch out for that old synchronicity


----------



## susan61 (Sep 14, 2002)

uhh, I don't think so! dh and I would have to, well, have alone time.


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

never discount immaculate conception (that's my convent education talking)

oh I feel much better!


----------



## susan61 (Sep 14, 2002)

My Italian dh and I are giggling over this









He and the rest of his family maintain his sister had an immaculate conception with her first ds 21 years ago. I wonder if it runs in the family?























Sorry








T


----------



## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

emmaline, it sounds like you're having some anxiety. I'm glad you came here to vent.

Still thinking of you and sending loving thoughts. Keep us posted, have some warm herbal tea and take it easy. Try to get some rest and envision the baby within you.


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

thanks jacque, I appreciate your loving thoughts so much









envisioning the baby I can't do consciously yet, but I have had two dreams of baby girls

anxiety and pregnancy go hand in hand for me, sometimes I deal with it better than others - this morning was my first moment to myself in a while and guess what springs out of the shadows... everything I'm squishing down the rest of the time, hardly surprising really

one day at a time


----------



## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)




----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

I always lose it a bit when I read about the babies in chinese orphanages too. Makes me







when I'm not pregnant.

Every pregnancy is different. All 5 of mine have been different. Last time I had beautiful flawless skin, this time it's gone all oily. I had real bad nausea last time from 5 weeks 3 days. This time it's been on & off since about implantation. Maybe it's a girl so your body is reacting differently ?


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

I thought about that OM, anything's possible

how are you going? if you feel like telling, that is


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

Very very spewy. Just the thought of food makes me sick. I've got all these broad beans in my garden at the moment coz Saffron loves them. I feel so guilty coz I just have to visualise the word & I feel sick so she is being deprived of her fave seasonal snack. I s'pose it's helping in an obscure way coz I'm distracted from worrying as much coz I feel so yuck.

On the positive side, I went for a scan yesterday. I have to go for these at 6.5 weeks to check the baby is not ectopic. Silly when I've got no tubes left, but apparently they can get caught in the lip of the tube that is left behind. Well we saw a little heart beating & the baby measured all of 8.3 mm so that was a relief. Mind you I've BTDT before with both the excessive nausea & the scans & still lost the baby so I'm still a bit cautious about counting my chooks.

How far along are you ?


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

I'm 6 weeks - have also considered an early scan to look for that heartbeat, seeing my doc on friday

how I have delighted in nausea in the past! but counting chooks is not something I do readily either OM, it seems naive to be blindly optimistic

it is good to be distracted, work is useful

I'll be wishing you plenty of healthy mum-and-baby vibes


----------



## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

emmaline and OM - just sending hugs to you both. You're in my thoughts.

I'm going to open a thread for Subsequent pregnancy today. Sorry I havn't been more timely in getting this open.


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

Emmaline, 6 weeks can still be quite early for symptoms. I have friends who didn't know they were pregnant till 10 weeks. I know another lady with 4 children. With her last one, she didn't find out until 5 months







She had had quite bad nausea with a few of the others too.

As to the scan, 6 1/2 weeks or so is the earliest normally they can see the heartbeat. They do the scan transvaginally as well. Another less invasive possibility is get a series of blood tests to check your hcg levels.

I'm trying to delight in my nausea but it's become quite 24 hr so I am finding it a bit trying. Intermittant would be nice - everytime I got a little worried a twinge of nausea would be wonderful. Even better a twinge of nausea that went away when I sipped some raspberry leaf tea !


----------



## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

emmaline and OM










and sending you the stickiest firmest







vibes!!


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

Thanx Simonee & congrats on your surprise


----------



## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

OM







But let's keep this thread about you ladies... If there was any way I could give you some of my stickiness, believe me I would... I sooooo much hope to get much TMI about you both on the July Babies threads


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

thanks simonee, I'll be over there in a few weeks maybe

and congrats too


----------



## lamplighter (Nov 20, 2001)

Emmaline:

how are you doing? sending you (((((((







)))))) and a







I hope that today is a day of smiles and peace for you. May each day be that way too.

Take care of yourself. Have some Raspberry tea, play with your darling children. Laugh.

blessings,
Beth


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

beth - I am fine, having some comforting waves of nausea, keeping occupied

I do not have any reaspberry leaf tea yet! but will get some

you are right about playing and laughing with my children, it is the most healing thing in the world


----------



## MossbackMeadow (Nov 1, 2002)

Emmaline and OM - I am about 6 w 3 d also. Having a bit of nausea, but I'm not sure if I'm really having nausea, or just wanting too. It's usually after I eat. More often, I am extrememly thirsty and have a horrible taste in my mouth.
I have an appt. with my lay midwife on Dec 12 to check for a heartbeat with a doppler. Hope I make it that far - that will be 11 weeks.
Let's be thankful for each day that we get to carry these little lives.

Mossback
mom to 3 homebirthed children ages 12, 9 and 6 in addition to
3 miscarried, and 1 vanished twin.
EDD July 3


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

nausea is a funny thing - I get it with anxiety as well as pregnancy so who knows which it is?? mine at the moment is only when I'm hungry! compared to previous experiences of total nausea 24/7

I'm still trying to get in to see my OB, she has been away

Dec 12 seems a long way off mossback, we'll be patiently waiting too


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

Congrats MossBack







Dec 12th does seem a very long way off to me as well. Altho' in theory, I'm probably not going to get another scan until the 12th either coz co-incidentally I'll be 12 weeks then so I'm just gonna have to staunch it out until then.

Question re: nausea. ( Sorry to hijack your thread Emmaline ) In all my recent pregnancies, bar my ectopic, I have had solid 24/7 nausea. I've been going to see my cranial osteopath, have been having acupuncture, taking vit B6, only eating protein & I have had a massive improvement. However, every time I start feeling good, I find myself panicking that this is coz something has happened to the baby. I have to really concentrate on being calm when this happens. How do you all deal with intermittant vs constant nausea ?


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

dunno OM this is my first try at intermittent nausea

I'd be a lot more certain of the pregnancy if it were constant, I really still don't believe it will go on much longer despite the many stories I have heard about varying experiences of nausea

on the bright side, my dh thinks it's just as bad as previous so is being incredibly solicitous - should I enlighten him??


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

I think our minds play tricks on us especially when we are feeling a bit paranoid. I even get worried about silly things like I still have some hair fall out when I wash it & I thought our hair shedding cycles were suppressed in pregnancy so there must be something wrong type of thing. Your dh has probably got a more balanced view on how sick you seem than you have so it probably is a good sign









When's your OB back ?


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

she got back yesterday but is flat out, hopefully I can see her in the next week or two

what about hair suddenly seeming greyer?? or is it just the henna wearing off?? suddenly breaking out in zits? sleeping more? being wakeful? endless tricks our minds pull

7 weeks tomorrow..


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

In theory your nausea being more intermittant is not necessarily a bad sign. Mine this time is different. We've seen the heartbeat on a scan so %age wise, I think we have a >85% chance of making it to the end OK. Don't you just love statistics









I'm drowning in yoghurt here. If I eat a small bowl of it unsweetened every hour or so I can keep the nausea at bay(ish) - well enuf to do what I have to do.

Yes, my skin is more oily. I haven't looked at the grey. It's a recent development since I stopped getting a decent night's sleep. I am heaps more tired but then am also a lot more wakeful when I finally get to bed. Only to then get woken when I get to sleep.

I just wish 12 weeks would hurry up so I can have another scan (







wishing for technology ) & see that the baby is OK still.


----------



## lamplighter (Nov 20, 2001)

emmaline - ocean mama

writting this while bf-ing so no shifting possible.......just to let ya know

the best thing i found for nausea is traditional medicinals pregnancy tea. it's so great and works wonders, i drank three to four cups a day for the full pregnancy. any health food store will carry the line of tea and sometimes the brand can be found in the supermarket.

later on you might want to try the mother's milk tea - it helps so much with bf-ing. i drink that now every day, and dd 2 1/2 still is going strong in the bf-ing department.

hoping for the best for you both

blessings and peace,

beth


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

thanks beth, I've seen those teas advertised in Mothering mag but don't know anyone that sells them here though there are other similar products

I have got some prenatals supplements and will be able to go tea-hunting this morning


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

Yeah thanx Beth







I'm off tea hunting today too. Pay day is wednesday so I usually go food shopping then. I doubt anyone sells that brand here. Any idea what herbs are in them ?


----------



## XM (Apr 16, 2002)

Here's what's in the Traditional Medicinals tea...

Raspberry Leaf 350mg
Strawberry Leaf 350mg
Nettle Herb 175mg

and 875mg of a 'proprietary blend' of~

spearmint leaf
bitter fennel seed
rose hip
alfalfa leaf
lemon verbena leaf

So if you ladies can't find the bags in stores in your area, then you would probably be able to do a 'custom blend' from loose herbs... I included amounts so you could figure 3 parts this to 2 parts that... hope this helps!

XM


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

brilliant XM, I can get this made up with no trouble


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

woohoo - I actually found some of the genuine mccoy in the organic vege shop. Cost an arm & a leg but it is oh so yummy. I can't get all the other ingredients here so that's good. Breaks the monotony of the hourly live plain yoghurt & the odd cup of dandelion root coffee - which is also helping heaps









&







T my possum fur baby bootees arrived today. Too cute. They are black with a beautiful cinnamon undertone in the sun ( like dd#1's cat co-incidentally ) & really fluffy. They are actually mocassins, kinda like the shoe robeez (sp?) but so fluffy they look like bootees. Guilt free fur!

How is the nausea today Emmaline ? Are feeling more hopeful yet ? At 7 weeks & still puking is normally a good sign I think.

I went to the quack today. She said congrats, told me nausea was a good sign, sent me for a blood test, gave me a scan form for 12 weeks, patted me on the head & sent me on my way. So hanging in there till dec 12th. Oh & my acupuncturist thinks it's another girl.


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

Forgot to ask. Am I the only one who sighs with relief when I have a spate of feeling normal & then suddenly has a massive panic that it's coz it's all gone wrong again. I did it again today & it's really starting to get to me. How can I get myself to be reasonable, accept what fate has to offer me & relax ???


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

well if you can get the tea maybe I can too









moccasins sound ideal for the weather our babies will encounter in winter









good upchuck before breakfast today OM (as described on mossback's happy things thread though this will have interesting consequences - like having to break the news to ds1), finally feels like "normal" for me but 8 weeks is my "usual" danger time

actually I'm not really sure if I'm more panicky about going thru another m/c or having another child, I don't like to make rash predictions about how things will turn out - really just sitting back watching with interest at the moment

that sounds reasonable but that's in the clear light of day, not 3 am no sleep reasoning

was it reassuring to be patted on the head? hang in there!!

I get to see my doc on Monday


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

To be honest, I didn't find it reassuring at all. A bit insulting even. We both know ( altho' she probably doesn't remember as I don't see her much ) that I've done the whole spew for months thing & lost the baby still. But I s'pose it's going thru the motions. Generaly nausea is a good sign & most women with it don't have mcs so I am probably being a tad oversensitive.

I told dd1 after I went for my 6 1/2 week scan.


----------



## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

OM how did dd take the news? Does she know of your previous loss? It's interesting to see how children travel through this.

I keep reading this tread and nodding in agreement. So many emotions you're going through. I remember that twang of panick that would pass through me at times - like an electric shock.

There isn't much we can do about our fears. Just accept them, talk about them, explore them. When we look at our fears, many times we see them for what they are and can move through them.

Wouldn't it be great to be nieve again - just for moment? I had 18 ultrasounds with ds due to the placenta problums I had. I felt horrible that I needed this technology - however, I'm so greatful it was available and my son is here - almost 8 years old and the light of my life.

Thinking of you ladies and sending wamth and calming vibes.

Gently,

Jacque


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

OM the only person who gets to pat me on the head with impunity (metaphorically or actually) is my youngest brother, since he grew a foot taller than me many years ago. It's one of the excellent things about coming here, I never feel patronised (or matronised)

yes jacque naivety sounds like it would be wonderful, but then I talk to my mother who just left everything up to her OB, had very straight forward pregnancies and births, until her undiagnosed twins (her last pregnancy) were born prem and one died at 3 weeks - still she managed such a suppression of feelings that this naivety remained intact. I find this approach maddening to the point of insanity. I know her naivety cut her off from other women, she couldn't relate to their difficulties at all, didn't even believe in preg nausea till I convinced her that I had thrown up every morning for months with both my boys (as well as the nausea the rest of the day).

I'd rather be educated, in touch and connected, fears and all.


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

I think I'd rather be educated, in touch & not have any reason to fear myself







I'm feeling very envious at the moment of someone who is able to believe that pregnancy nausea doesn't exist  Yes I am feeling very sick & very sorry for myself.

How are you today Emmaline ? Still feeling sick ?

dd took the news OK. She's convinced it's a boy. dh think it's a girl. I'd be happy with a baby







She knows about my other losses, but coz Saffron was OK, seems to think this one will be as well.


----------



## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

Emmaline, I TOTALLY agree! My MIL is one of thoes who just flounces through life with a plastic smile saying "it's God's will" "Everything will be fine". It's maddening! She's like a stepford wife! No emotions - just motions.

What I would like is to go into a pregnancy without the first hand knowledge that I have now. But, I guess that's not possible.

All of you take care. I'm thinking of you and here if you need to 'talk'.

Gently,

Jacque


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

well of course it would be wonderful to have no reason to fear

you know, it has been suggested to me that one of the reasons I have such intense feelings around pregnancy and birth loss( I had them well before I had losses of my own, though after the loss of my youngest brother's twin) is that I am carrying the suppressed pain of my mother, and possibly her foremothers also, and it is only now safe to express it

our family history (motherwise) is so Irish Catholic, the only one my mother ever felt able to confide in was a priest, and the usual advice was "your sins are forgiven, now forget about whatever was wrong"

tough for her that she couldn't forget so became a master of suppression , to her great detriment

and me being the one female in a large family - I just absorbed a lot of stuff I never understood, some of the jigsaw pieces have fallen into place very recently and I can understand better

making any sense??

p.s. good nausea today OM! hope yours is tolerable. how is yr dd1 doing these days??


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

dd#1 has deserted me to my spewing & gone off to Mt Maunangui for the weekend with her boyfriend. She even left me a whole heap of dirty washing to do for her while she was gone!

Teenagers eh?

Your theory your feelings could be very true Emmaline. THis could also explain your nausea too.

Mine, I'm afraid, is just down to my life experiences I think as I do not remember feeling any form of fear when I was pregnant with dd#1. I was pregnant & I was having a baby in 9 months. It never occured to me anything would go wrong - & it didn't.

With my ectopic, I knew there was a risk. But they'd given me a series of blood tests & told me it was highly unlikely. So BIG shock #1. Then with my subsequent loss, I got thru the 6 1/2 week scan & it wasn't ectopic so everything was OK. I got thru the 12 week thing everyone kept whittering on at me about. THen BOOM, 16 weeks a massive blood clot & one dead baby.

Yeah so my feelings are all to do with shock & never knowing what might go wrong next.


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

I know those feelings of shock - after my first m/c 13 yrs ago I was quite mad for some weeks, wildly rocketting between deep grief and pain and in the next breath making evil jokes that even my dh (with very dark humour) gasped at. Those experiences where the foundations of your world are totally rocked mixed with major physical drama are bound to have loads of ramifications.


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

I had a lot of rage after my ectopic. I eventually went & had some reiki & it literally evaporated into thin air. When my next baby died it was less than 6 months later. So I think I was all worn out too much to rage. It was just profound deep grief.

YEah these things change your life. These days I try to take a more spiritual view of these things & try to get something positive from the experience. Wierd as that may sound.


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

not weird at all

I share your view - there is something to be learned from all the things we encounter in life and learning the lessons is what makes our lives make sense

failing to get anything but negatives from our experiences leaves us... I dunno where, but in big trouble one way or another


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

hmm I've met a few women who became like that after losing babies. They definitely were & still are stuck in a very bad place. One inspired me to take a long hard look in the mirror as I was so scared of ending up like that. Also inspired me not to give up either in a round about sort of a way too.

Feeling any safer yet ? I am having flashes of feeling a bit more positive. Most days I'm simply drowning in nausea, trying to keep up with Saffron & work. I've told myself I won't worry while I am feeling sick which is probably why I'm always feeling sick







: I've pysched myself up to it.

Have you told ds 1 yet ? I hope your dh is still being solicitous or whatever you called it. Always helps to have a cuddle when you're feeling sick - provided he didn't have a toasted cheese & onion sarnie for lunch that is


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

yes dh is still trying hard - I don't want to discourage those cups of tea in bed (so rare) even if they end up in the toilet - but I know he is afraid of my strong feelings around pregnancy and loss, he doesn't seem to want to wade into it for fear of having to confront ..whatever is there for him, I'm not sure, as he won't wade in! he was seriously freaked out by our early experiences - definitley a loss of innocence for both of us, but he wouldn't or couldn't come with me in examining it all

ds1, now I'm thinking hard about him, he is very perceptive, very anxious guy, but also loves being a brother, I think he'll be excited but concerned about a lot of issues

he knows about the two I lost before him, talks about them as "the ones who didn't make it" as if they were on a mission together and some of the soldiers were lost in action, and he has strong memories of ds2's birth (I was pretty crook and was in hospital for 10 days during which ds1 came down with chickenpox, a very bad case, wwhen I got home finally he was too sore for me to hug him







and he wasn't allowed to touch ds2 )

I vividly remember telling him when I was preg with ds2 - he just assumed so much responsibility as a big brother, I really had to be firm with "well these things are the parents' responsibility and not for brothers to worry about" so he didn't panic, he is very tenderhearted

I also have positive flashes, briefly, it still seems completely unreal that we might have a baby in winter

have a restful weekend!


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

:LOL I didn't think I was gonna get a real live baby with Saffron either. I even had her at home by accident coz I didn't *think* I was really in labour. So, yeah, these things can & do happen whether we believe they will or not









I think men deal with emotional issues like the loss of children very differently to us. With guys, it's not just the baby they lose, it's the threat of losing us too. I know, for him, anyways that was always a big thing.

That is so sweet about your ds1 with the babies on a mission together







I take so much comfort in my children & how they are. Makes whatever happens more bearable.


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

wow OM that is serious denial! I think if I get past the next few weeks I'll believe it, won't wait till I'm in labour!!

that's an interesting point about men fearing to lose us, I never thought about it like that - I know my husband mourned the loss of the "carefree" woman I was before all the serious stuff happened, not just the losses but being a parent also, he thinks I changed completely and I agree to a certain extent but see it as essential adaptation

my kids are the greatest comfort to me too, especially when they chant "grouphug grouphug"


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

scan yesterday showed one baby with one beating heart









due date July 4

maybe it will happen??


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

woohoo!!!! I was gonna ask you when Saffron went to sleep how it went but you beat me to it. That is so awesome







I've told you before, our chances are now > 85% of getting a baby at the end of it.

I bet you feel a bit better now


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

yes I do feel differently, I know the odds are good, but I'm still afraid to think of an actual baby - the 8 week mark that has tripped me up before

and I got a rare old dose of "what tests would you like to have?"

I can't see the value of testing when no result would move me to consider termination - how would my pregnancy be enhanced by knowing there was something wrong?

I feel the same about this as I did with ds1 12 yrs ago, being older hasn't affected my core beliefs ( more like reinforced them) and it's not that my doc is pressuring me, she will respect my decisions, it's just - what?? I'm suffering Too Much Information?

dunno, I'll have to sit with these issues a while

how are you today?


----------



## MossbackMeadow (Nov 1, 2002)

Such good news about your scan!










I had a lazy weekend around here with the kids while dh was gone. Lots of take out food, and an Anne of Green Gables videofest.

Still feeling gaggy, still pregnant. I will be glad to get beyond 9 weeks. My due date is July 4th too -- isn't that funny.

The sun is out here for the first time in weeks. I'm going to take a long walk while the kiddos are at swim practice.

Take care, all.

Mossback


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

Well I got the figures wrong. Apparently if a fetal heart beat is seen 2 -3 weeks after a positive pregnancy test, there is a 90 - 95% chance of having a actual baby. So it's looking good









I know you say the 8 week mark has got you before. But if you miscarry at 8 weeks, the chances are the baby never developed beyond 6 or 7 weeks, if that.

Today I am feeling spewy as usual. Tired as my sweet toddler had yet another restless night. Pretty much same old same old. 9 weeks on thursday so hopefully only another month of this nausea to go.

I got the what tests would you like line as well. I think they just do it as a standard after you're 35. I told them, I'd see what was on the 12 week scan & decide then what to do. ie I fobbed them off. The last thing I need now is an attack of TMI as well!


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

july 4 for you too mossback?! good to hear you're still gagging away









OM I have just understood about seeing a live baby at this stage being so positive, from reading stories here of mums who knew their babies had died (early) but the m/c didn't start for weeks, it is important info









does your nausea usually ease off by end of 1st trimester?


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

Actually no. Last time it eased off - if you could call it that - at 30 weeks. But this time I am being positive. My acupuncturist says it is my liver & the hormones. Since the hcg levels drop after 12 weeks when the placenta takes over IT IS GOING TO GO AWAY SHORTLY AFTERWARDS!!! If I say that loud enuf I am going to believe it









It is definitely very different nausea to the last times. I used to say it was like I had bulimia in reverse. Now I can't face food at all & I'm still not getting any thinner!

Are you going to tell ds1 now ?


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

ahem.. YES I BELIEVE YOUR NAUSEA WILL GO AWAY THEN TOO!

dh wants to wait awhile to tell ds1 - not so sure about that, he's going to see me in even looser clothes than usual pretty soon (I'm normally intolerant of belly pressure, and it's way worse now) and ... I hate concealment, he picks up stuff anyway and won't understand what he's getting

I have been making some truly idiotic mistakes this week filling in forms for his new school and ds has alreay decided I'm developing Alzheimers


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

it's a difficult one. i think if anything were to go wrong at this stage, he'd notice. NOT that it's going to but you kwim. I'd imagine it's also probably quite stressful trying to act normal whilst he's around. Plus having to be careful what you say & when. ARGH!! rather you than me.

Again. I am SO pleased you saw the little heart beating away. I didn't go for a scan with Saffron at 8 weeks, but by 9 weeks 5 days, she had little arms & legs that waved & was about the size of the dog's nose. I know some people poo poo technology but it was an indescribable feeling seeing that little person. Certainly made me a bit more prolife in my0 prochoice beliefs.


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

little hearts, little arms and legs, yeah I'm pro-little-life! speaking strictly for myself of course

I've been very anti-technology in the past but now I'm favouring some balance

I'm leaning toward telling ds1 for sure, just have to work on dh

off to watch "Stuart Little" on video with feverish ds2... I've got a thing for Hugh Laurie


----------



## MossbackMeadow (Nov 1, 2002)

emmaline,
I'm with you there on the "was anti-technology, now favoring some balance," idea.
I have been a very militant home birther in the past - who knows with this one. I am tentatively planning another birth at home but have had some health issues since last baby, so we'll see.
I think it's easy when you're young to be of a "what could go wrong" mindset, but now that we are a little older we are a little less naive.

M.
dh just called - he is 4.5 hrs from home - yea!


----------



## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

I know what you ladies mean. I used to be quite the 'nature girl' about pregnancy and birth. Then it took me 4 years and many infertility drugs to conceive, only to lose her.

It's funny, every time we'd try a infertility drug I'd say "ok, I'll do this one, but that's as far as I go".

Then, with the pregnancies, I was a paranoid wreck! I was so thankfull for the ultrasound at 5 weeks that shows my ds doing flips and turns and his little heart beating away.

It's hard, we want so badly to trust your bodies. Childbirth *IS* one of the most natural events. But, to some of us, we must depend on technology.

Thinking of you ladies.

Gently,

Jacque


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

well I have been waiting for that familiar 24/7 nausea and the gods have been listening, because I am now feeling, to quote OM, sick as a parrot


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

i s'pose I should say congrats from one parrot to another









I personally can't stand the 24/7 nausea. I know it's s'posed to be a good sign & all that - but right now an omen every now & then would do me. I feel so so sick all the time I am having chronic difficulties doing anything I am s'posed to & it is really getting to me. I can't eat a thing without barfing & if I don't eat I barf. I had sort of got it temporarily under control but it stepped up a gear again a few days ago & back to being green & parrot-like.

9 weeks today so here's hoping I've only got another month or so of this to go.

Other than the nausea. How are you Emmaline ?


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

I feel very sorry for you OM, you are really copping it









other than nausea : no complaints, lost a few kilos but can't fit into my trousers, just marking time I think

dh and ds1 are away at a school camp for a few days so ds2 and I are chilling out at home

what else is happening for you?


----------



## MossbackMeadow (Nov 1, 2002)

I was thinking yesterday that I felt a little "too good," for my own good, and that maybe something was amiss. But this morning awoke to a mess my dog made on the kitchen floor and the gags were back.
I need to get my house cleaned before tomorrow when a group of people descend upon me for lunch. Just haven't felt like moving very fast. Dozing by the woodstove is about all I can manage!

8 Weeks Today
Mossback


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

congrats on 8 weeks mossback (what is the significance of your name?it sounds intriguing) and dozing by the wood stove sounds just wonderful to me!

the "feeling too good" feeling hits me every time I have a few moments nausea-free, plus my breasts (though goddess-sized) are not at all tender, so the worrier keeps sitting up to assess the situation

but all I have to do is get a whiff of garlic and it's gagsville (we don't have a dog!!) - unfortunately for dh the garlic is usually emanating from him







as I am not using it in our kitchen


----------



## MossbackMeadow (Nov 1, 2002)

My screen name: a mossback is someone who is old fashioned, behind the times, etc. That would describe dh and I. We live on a few acres with a log house, big garden, a few animals for our meat and eggs. It's pretty flat and grassy where we are in northwest Ohio, hence, Mossback Meadow is the name for our little homestead.

True confessions time - I gave into a craving today. Bought some potato chips and sour cream and onion dip. Didn't even wait till I got home. Tore into the bag right in the parking lot. That is so unlike me! If there was an icon for a piggy I would insert it here. : )

Happy 8 weeks to you to Emmaline.

Mossback


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

great name! and your home sounds heavenly - I live in a big city, in an inner city suburb, many pros and cons

cravings? after vegemite toast, ginger beer, settles my stomach so well

edited to add : I came out on the "july mamas" thread ... hope that's not tempting the gods too much

e


----------



## MossbackMeadow (Nov 1, 2002)

Arg! I know what you mean. I posted on the I'm Pregnant board a couple weeks ago. Now I"ve really gone overboard and even told a couple friends. I figured I would need their support if the unthinkable happened.
How long till people start looking at us funny? I'm wearing a rubber band on the button of my jeans today.







:

Tell us more about life in Australia Emmaline. How did your family end up there in the first place? I think when we American's think of down under we think of Crocodile Dundee, kangaroos, giant outback sheep ranches, The Thorn Birds, Mel Gibson and that opera house with the pointy roof.










M.


----------



## XM (Apr 16, 2002)

...and I think of wallabees and platypusses and koalas and the Great Barrier Reef and that huge red rock in the outback and all the other beautiful things I see on the Discovery Channel!

...and how I get confused every time you and OM talk about your winter babies, July is the middle of summer here!


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

:LOL all that stuff is there, just not too close to my place! except the platypus who are making a comeback in some local creeks and rivers after years of dedicated cleaning up and replanting with native species

and the sheep station (ranch is not really our term) thing - well my greatgrandfather (from Wales) squatted on half a million acres in Western Australia around 1900, no doubt displacing the original inhabitants







and my grandfather continued to run the property till the late 1960s when the wool prices bottomed out and he lost everything

on my mother's side are the Irish ratbags who came out earlier, I think during the goldrush here in Victoria in the mid18oos, then worked a timbermill in the south west of Western Australia

figures that most of their descendants are greenie vegetarians







:

I'm very much a city dweller, life in Melbourne is probably much like any city of 4 million people!


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

I always wanted to go live in Australia but they wouldn't have me & I got stuck in New Zealand. Not that I mind at all







But I do get the odd longing for those big red dirt deserts, which I think is the displaced south african in me.

Interesting about the ginger beer settling your stomach Emmaline. I make ginger beer but it takes well over a week to do it & the commercial stuff is simply not cutting it so I was thinking of sticking a batch on.

I'm not up to commenting on the chips & dip Mossback







: Anything with onions or garlic in just makes me spew. Your place sounds kinda cool tho' We're moving to our 4 acres overlooking the harbour in about 5 weeks & have very big plans for it.

The most adventurous my cravings get at the mo' are dandelion coffee ( woohoo!!! ) & the odd bit of chocolate milk which I always regret as it is way too sweet.

I can still fasten up my jeans as well. I got all depressed coz I thought I'd put on all this weight as they suddenly got tight. I totally forgot that I'd put them in the dryer as it was raining so they'd thankfully only temporarily shrunk. One of my other fears associated with pregnancy loss is the big weight gain thing. I know it is very shallow & superficial but I was real slim before I lost the baby at 16 weeks. I'd been so sick & had to eat non-stop to keep it together that I'd put on all this weight. I ended up big & with no baby







Kinda added insult to injury. It sounds strange writing it down, but it is one of my many big pregnancy fears.


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

yeah we're pretty picky about who gets to live here







it's sickening

I'm not a red desert fan, give me cool places anytime - when NZ went no-nuke I wanted to move there!

4 acres overlooking the harbour sounds beautiful OM - are you building? moving doesn't sound like fun though, even if the end result is fantastic, moving is tough


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

Hmm we just changed the immigration laws & introduced an english "test" for non-english speaking immigrants. The xenophobes are having a party coz it's gonna mainly effect the Asian immigrants. Poor things. Everyone hates them coz the vast majority of them are rich, don't speak english & their kids are real bright.

The 4 acres has a house on already. Not the best house but it's still a house. Most of the 4 acres is bush as well







Still with sea views from the whole lot. I can run around my back block naked with no neighbours to see me which will be awesome. & I am still only 15 mins drive from town. Dunedin is a university town too so it's a proper civilised town. We're going to hopefully, finances permiting, buy an old wooden villa for removal & put it on site. Either that or build a mud brick house but I think that will probably be too expensive.

On the pregnancy front, I have been having a scarey weekend. I have been having patches of feeling a lot better, still queasy but a lot better. So the mind then starts working overtime. I HATE it! I feel sick all the time, I feel safe. I start feeling marginally better & all of a sudden I break out in a cold sweat & panic. ARGH!!!


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

me too - still crook but not parrot-status, though it only takes a whiff of garlic for me to think - yep, still pregnant - perhaps you could try that method??

dh cooked a wonderful dinner last night but I could only eat a little, tofu is on the gag-list









also - my digestive system is slowing right down - prunes will be featuring on the menu now

do you have a lot stuff to pack up for moving? I had to pack up my house last summer for floor reconstruction and polishing and it was such a good time to de-clutter, gave away most of my baby-stuff







: but also piles of [email protected] that had built up over the last 7 years


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

We need a green shuddering emoticon. Garlic, onions, tea, tofu - well anything remotely associated to soy beans actually. The butchery section of the supermarket, brocolli, broad beans....
Yuck! Am managing vegetarian sushi at the mo' so I am off to get some very soon. dh can't cook to save his life. His idea of fixing dinner is to go to the chip shop & get some chips, a few hot dogs & some bread & butter. I just have no hope there I am afraid. He doesn't even get what's wrong with that & that's without me feeling sick even!

We've got loads to pack & dh has already started stock piling building materials. I just hope we can fit it all in the container.


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

oh dear -







shudders at yr dh's idea of dinner, that's tragic

we have NO garlic in the house these days but dh had dinner out last week and the garlic emanations had me heaving for days - even walking into his room was impossible, I had to hold my breath for a quick hug

it gets tricky on the protein front with no tofu, no lentils or beans ?? I have gone back to a little cheese and have been eating fish occasionally over the past few years so I can do that a bit more - protein seems to be essential for keeping blood pressure down and mine has a tendency to creep up and up


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

dh's dietary habits scare me lots too. I can't handle cheese at all. Generally I'm a vegan. Fish I can stomach the thought of but I never could cook the stuff myself & eat it so I guess there's no chance there. yoghurt is the furthest I get with protein these days. My blood pressure is always very very low - like 90/50 type of low.

I saw some smoked salmon sushi that looked quite nice at lunch time but I have no idea about smoked fish & listeria??

I've just managed to persuade my dh to stop having onion sandwiches for lunch. The garlic would just kill me right now.


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

smoked fish is high risk for listeria according to a health dept publication I have


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

you know i have never been able to find anything definitive on listeria. as far as i know, raw eggs, anything made with unpasteurised milk, cooked meats kept in a warmer & mussels are a problem. i was just guessing on the smoked salmon.

still sick here. i think it's either getting a bit better or i'm tolerating it better. i stopped taking all the b6 & herbal stuff coz i was just throwing it up & it made me feel a lot better. so these days i live off organic granny smith apples, plain yoghurt, vegetarian sushi & cocoa or milkshake


----------



## MossbackMeadow (Nov 1, 2002)

Gosh you two. I wish I could jet down to the southern hemisphere for a long weekend of sun, coastline, vegetarian cooking. It sounds wonderful! We have 6 inches of snow on the ground here.
This week is our Thanksgiving - for me that will be a 2 day affair with dh's family - a good time, though tiring. Turkey dinner, mashed potatoes, fruit, stuffing, pies, shopping and laughing with the sisters -in-law. Is this giving you the green shudders? My body's own weight control seems to have kicked in. I can only eat a few bites and my throat just shuts down - not a bad thing!
This weekend dh and I are heading off to a B & B for some R&R in honor of our 14th anniversary, which is tomorrow.
OM - I really feel for you about the weight thing. You went 16 weeks, all that dreaming and planning and feeling pg., the cramping that is so much like labor, and nothing to show for it at the end.







What week are you up to now? Your house hunt sounds like quite an adventure.

I had moment of cold sweating fear yesterday when I noticed a big blob of what I thought might be mucous plug. Had a bit of cramping too and was quite worried, though no blood - everything fine today.
Still gagging here chilly Ohio,

Mossback
Mossback


----------



## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

Ooooh I love the snow! We don't get it in the bit of NZ where we're living now but we do get it where we're going. I can't wait! I've had way too much of icky humid warm weather & intermittant rain all year round. The only good thing about the warm humid weather is the cicadas. I'm very worried there aren't any down South. I just love laying out by the sea listening to the cicadas.

We don't celebrate thanksgiving here at all & one good thing about having xmas in the middle of summer is no massive turkey numbers to deal with. Unfortunately the I-Ls are still there & they make me feel sick when I'm not pregnant. I'm definitely not up to a festive occasion of bigotry, xenophobia & neuroces this year so I'll be giving it a miss









Yeah the big move is quite mind boggling. I'm very much looking forward to it. I came to NZ to get away from it all & got stuck in Auckland coz of work. Then Auckland kinda mushroomed development-wise & I now feel like I'm back in London. Well maybe not that bad but the traffic here is horrendous. Every gap you can swing a cat in has or is getting a house or block of units built in it. We still live one street back from the sea & there's a wharf 2 mins walk down the road one way & 2 mins the other there is a park with a mangrove swamp at the bottom. 1 hrs drive out west are wild ocean beaches. The other side ( east ) which we are really really near is the hauraki gulf which is relatively calm. They having the prelimiaries for the Americas cup there at the moment.

Glad to hear you recovered from your scarey moment. I hate those ones where you almost stop breathing. I'm sure the fear makes you cramp. I'm now 9 weeks 5 days. woo hoo. I just wish I hadn't had the unexplained 2nd trimester loss or I would be feeling quite optimistic by now. I'm trying to decide if I've got the nuts to book my 12 week scan yet or whether I need to wait a bit longer.


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

no sign of sun or snow here today just RAIN, buckets of cats and dogs type rain - we are on water restrictions for the drought, so I hope some of it is getting to the farmers and the water catchment areas

I long for snow - last summer we stayed at the top of a mountain not too far from town and it snowed in November, it was heavenly, only my third time in snow

mossback I'm sorry you had a scare







hope you can enjoy your R&R with dh - happy anniversary!

our 13th anniversary is next january and I'll be trying to organise something similar, if my dear SIL will look after the boys

actually I'm just dreading breaking the news to SIL : she has no children of her own and had one m/c some years ago (she's now 45 and her dh is not well), I know the news will both delight and devastate her


----------



## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

emmaline, I totally understand how hard it's going to be to break the news to her. However, I think being straightforward is the best approach. Yes, she'll most likely have some sadness.

As for snow - Michigan has so much! We have feet and feet to shovel in below 0 temps! Wish I could bottle it up and send it your way. I'll take the rain over snow ANY day.

Much gentleness,

Jacque


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

jacque straight is the only way I can play - so there will be a quiet opportunity for me to spend some time with her soon and deal with whatever comes up


----------

