# Help a 17yr old high school guy is interested in my 13 year old?



## mom2teengrls (Dec 23, 2010)

Here's the backstory. My daughter is 13 and she joined a recrerational swin team over the summer, and fell in love with the sport. She met the 17yr old high school guy through swimming. He helps out with their team, which was great. Now, they text message all the time and always chat on her phone. She definitely has a crush on him. I was hoping that he thought of her as a lil sister, but I got hold of her cellphone, and read some of the text messages that he sent her, and they read much like a guy that is courting a girl. I want to put a stop to this now! I confronted my daughter about the text messages, so now she erases all the information on her phone, and takes it everywhere she goes. I'm worried that she's secretly seeing him when we drop her off to see friends. I also confronted the guy and told him that my daughter has a cruch on you, and I hope that your smart enough to know that she's off limit. He claims that they are just friends, but I don't believe him or her.

I can't take away her cellphone because we need it to contact her in case of an emergency, she's involved with a ton of extracurricular activities, so locking her in her room until she's 30 isn't the answer.

What is a mom to do?

Advice please?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

You confronted her, but did you actually talk to her? Explain your concerns? Explain that 17 year olds tend to have different expectations for a relationship than 13 year olds?


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## soso-lynn (Dec 11, 2007)

You could cut off the texting feature on her phone. I cannot imagine anything good coming out of 13 year olds having that function.

As far as how to specifically talk about it with her, that will depend a lot on your relationship and personalities but I second the fact that she needs to be aware of different expectations. If you suspect she is still communicating with this boy, you should contact his parents and start keeping a closer eye on her. You can get a phone with GPS to know where she is, you could make a point of confirming with other kids' parents if she says she is going to visit them.

A big thing to look out for is what she is doing on her school lunch break. At one school I went at, kids were getting pregnant and doing drugs during lunch and their parents could never believe it since most of them had very strict supervision the rest of the time.


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mom2teengrls*
> 
> I can't take away her cellphone because we need it to contact her in case of an emergency, she's involved with a ton of extracurricular activities, so locking her in her room until she's 30 isn't the answer.


I question this logic. A generation ago many of us were in extracurricular activities and none of us had cell phones and we were fine. If she didn't have a cell phone at an activity now she'd be surrounded by people who have them so what will happen if she doesn't have one? Further, if you want her to have a cell phone for emergencies that doesn't require a cell phone that has many minutes, the ability to text, etc. Also, having the phone only at activities but requiring her to turn it over to you at home is also an option.

I'm not saying the answer is to get rid of her phone, however I see many potential ways to limit the phone if that's what you want to do.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

Have you spoken to the adults in charge of the team? That's kind of the first thing I would do. They need to be VERY clear with the teens "on staff" that certain kinds of relationships are not appropriate. If a teen employee is crossing lines with a kid on the team, they need to know. Call them.

From there - your situation is pretty awful right now. You freaked out at your daughter, who has gone secretive. Both of those are understandable reactions. Is there another adult you can call in? An aunt or a grandmother or a godmother? Someone your daughter has a close relationship with, who can say something like, I know you think your mom was overreacting, but she's worried about you. And then maybe that person could launch into the speech about how seventeen year-olds and thirteen year-olds have different expectations of relationships, and are at different stages of their lives, and no one who loves her wants her to be hurt, or to be rushed into adult things before she's ready.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

I would bring in a third party that she trusts (and who is on your side). She doesn't trust you right now so anything you say will go right past her...and possibly just make her MORE mad at you. Been there (the daughter!) and done that. I really wish that someone had sat me down and talked to me honestly (and treated me like the adult I THOUGHT I was for that conversation). I probably wouldn't have made as many mistakes.

Oh, and if you're having a problem with her cellphone they have some that you can buy that only make/receive calls with certain numbers. Like, you can program it so that she can only call you...Of course, if she REALLY wants to talk to this guy and has friends with cellphones there isn't anything to stop her from using theirs...(just thinking like I did back then)


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeepyCat*
> 
> Have you spoken to the adults in charge of the team? That's kind of the first thing I would do. They need to be VERY clear with the teens "on staff" that certain kinds of relationships are not appropriate. If a teen employee is crossing lines with a kid on the team, they need to know. Call them.


yep. call the head coach and tell him the whole story. The 17 teen year old needs a serious lecture, and his mommy needs to be called. You aren't the person to give the lecture or call his mommy, but the head coach is.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mom2teengrls*
> 
> I can't take away her cellphone because we need it to contact her in case of an emergency, she's involved with a ton of extracurricular activities, so locking her in her room until she's 30 isn't the answer.
> 
> ...


Actually, you CAN take away her cell. During the activities, I'm betting it can't be on/in use anyway. So the only time she may need it is to check rides. Don't give her cause to need to do so. Arrange the rides, and you're good.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtiger*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I agree with this. A 13 year old... no matter HOW active, doesn't need a cell phone. They can use someone else's. Take the phone away. A 13 year old doesn't need a cell phone with texting capabilities. Heck, I'm in my 40's and *I* don't need texting capabilities.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

I agree about taking away the cell phone. Both my 12 and 14 year old have cell phones with texting, but I would take them in a heart beat if I had ANY questions about what they were doing with it.

She should ALWAYS be where their is an adult in charge, and adults always have phones. She doesn't need her own. She just needs to know your number.

You also need to be concerned about her sending/receiving photos.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

The cel phone isn't the problem here it is the relationship between these 2 people. Taking the cel phone away probably isn't going to stop it.

The coaches need to be told. When you're dropping her off with friends double check who she is meeting & if you find out she is meeting him than the drop off with friends stops.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

I have a dd turning 15 in a few weeks.

I do agree about not taking away the cell phone. I got my dd one at the age of 13, after she returned from a school function half an hour early and had no access to a phone to call me to let me know, so she was stuck waiting for a half an hour, outside. So many schools don't have pay phones anymore and you can't always count on the teacher/coach to stay or be available to borrow their phone.

However, what you can do is remove texting and/or all data from the phone. Our phones still text, but we have to pay for it and DD pays for her own texts. But the internet and all other data messaging like pictures and such is totally blocked, none of our phones will do any of that. I totally recommend doing something like that with her phone. .

Now that you have confronted her and talked to him directly, you probably have some damage control to do. I probably would have totally flipped out also, but from the outside looking in it's easier to tell you that that is the fastest way to drive a teen away.

Quote:


> An aunt or a grandmother or a godmother? Someone your daughter has a close relationship with, who can say something like, I know you think your mom was overreacting, but she's worried about you. And then maybe that person could launch into the speech about how seventeen year-olds and thirteen year-olds have different expectations of relationships, and are at different stages of their lives, and no one who loves her wants her to be hurt, or to be rushed into adult things before she's ready.


 This is a great idea. My sister is only 10 years older than my teen so she's often my go to. Often, a teen will tell something to someone not mom that they would NEVER tell mom. So in general, enlisting another trusted adult to foster that close relationship is good.

As far as keeping them seperated, I agree with calling the head coach. He needs to be aware of the situation and I am sure he can take care of it.

You could also always just change your dd's cell phone number too...


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

You can stop the text messages on the phone and still give her access to the phone when she needs to contact you. People need to remember growing up we had pay phones, which are far and few between now days. You should put controls on that phone and make sure you monitor calls. I can get a print out of all calls if I want. See if your provider offers this service.

At 13 your dd thinks she is grown and most likely not as innocent as you want to believe on those mature text messages. You need to have very blunt conversations with her.

I do believe it is your responsibility to talk to the boy's parents. The swim team responsiblity it to make sure to get alone.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28679588/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/ -- both of these kids need to know this is reality. Sextexting/mature conversations can get them both in trouble.

Also, freaking out might not be your best option. This can cause the kids to get sneakier....sometimes you need to keep your "enemies" closer. I would not like the age gap but at the same time fighting and forbidding might be counter productive. Lots and LOTS of close adult supervision. Hopefully they will loose interest or find other interest. You set up the rules and stick to them.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> I got my dd one at the age of 13, after she returned from a school function half an hour early and had no access to a phone to call me to let me know, so she was stuck waiting for a half an hour, outside.


This is an honest question. What is wrong with a 13 year old waiting outside (even if it's cold) for 30 minutes? I honestly don't see anything wrong with this at all. Kids need to learn that sometimes you have to wait, sometimes the conditions are not perfect, and that the world doesn't always revolve around them and their schedule. I think that waiting a bit is actually healthier than having a cell phone. This is an example of the kind of entitlement that I'm trying to steer dd away from. She can be inconvenienced sometimes. I will inconvenienced sometimes. It's part of REAL life.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

It depends on how cold. I live in MO but there has been days in single digits. There were cold weather advisories. My issue is why does the kid have a phone but no access to her house? Why does't she have a key and a door she can open?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> This is an honest question. What is wrong with a 13 year old waiting outside (even if it's cold) for 30 minutes? I honestly don't see anything wrong with this at all. Kids need to learn that sometimes you have to wait, sometimes the conditions are not perfect, and that the world doesn't always revolve around them and their schedule. I think that waiting a bit is actually healthier than having a cell phone. This is an example of the kind of entitlement that I'm trying to steer dd away from. She can be inconvenienced sometimes. I will inconvenienced sometimes. It's part of REAL life.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Just keep in mind that you can win the battle but lose the war. The more you dislike this guy, the more she will like him. Let them get together at your house (only) with your supervision. Treat him as if he is just a friend. (And I would make sure she knew she could ask you about birth control, if she were my daughter.) And stop reading her texts. Before you know it, she will be an adult and out of your house, and what kind of relationship do you want to have with her then? That's the kind of relationship you need to cultivate now.

(PS. Yes, I have a 13 year old dd).


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Bigger question, why doesn't a 13 year old have access to their own house key?


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I assumed she was stuck at school waiting to be picked up because she mentioned teachers and coaches not sticking around. If not, then I agree, that is the bigger question. Moreover, if stuck outside their home, unless it's extremely rural, then why was there no place else to go to. (And if rural, then would there be cell coverage anyway???)

No teacher or coach would leave a kid of 13 or 14 in dangerous temperatures without making sure that there was someone coming quickly. They wouldn't just abandon a kid without any form of communication. If they did, they're setting themselves up for some trouble. Teachers and coaches don't just leave kids in dangerous situations (cold or otherwise) because we have such a litigious society and they are aware of it. So, to me, "being left 30 minutes waiting" isn't a *reason*, it's an *excuse*, IMO.


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## mamabeca (Oct 3, 2004)

1. I don't see why analyzing whether she has a phone is helping, if you feel like she needs the phone, make (and sign?) and agreement w/her for what it can be used for. Otherwise, she *could* lose the privilege, or some of it - like data pkg? Or you can downgrade her unit to a pager? In any case, an agreement would allow you to set some boundaries mutually - she gets to set some, you get to set some.

2. I would absolutely bring his people in on this - family, school, coach. He's underage, so depending upon where you are, it's possible he'd be immune from any charges regarding your dd if they were to pursue a sexual relationship.

3. If you think she is engaging in a sexual relationship - or on the verge of doing so - make her an appointment for a pelvic exam. That is often enough to scare the pants out of a 13yo. A good doctor (PA?) can also talk w/her about the risks involved, both emotionally and physically. And if it doesn't change her mind, maybe she is ready?

4. Is it possible that she's telling the truth? I would get the skeevies if my dd (12.5) were in any way involved w/a 17yo kid, for sure, but I would like to think (haha) that I'd try to listen to her and give her the benefit of the doubt. If you can, enlist the aid of the parents of her friends, just a phone call to let them know your concerns. It might help you feel like more eyes than your own were looking out for her. On the off chance that they are experimenting with drugs or drinking, sex, or other dangerous behavior, she will need the village to look out for her! And if she is telling the truth, having other people looking out for her won't hurt!

Be there for her. Try not to push her away, and never ever let her know how smart you are. If you can figure out how to follow up on her in a way that brings you information, don't let her know, just take the info in and let her know that you are concerned: growing up too fast is nearly always regretted, and nearly never part of a happy childhood.


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## whatsnextmom (Apr 2, 2010)

Hmm, well, my DD is 13 and having 17-year-old friends and older is not unusual at all for her. Granted, she's in high school and theatre. She has many years of experience with multi-aged environments and theatre particularly fosters a communal, sort of family relationship amoungst the ages. The older teen boys DD texts and spends one-on-one time with are openly gay. She's clearly a platonic friend and little sister to the straight older teen boys (and understandable as most have known her since she was like 8 lol.) They rarely text her and only 2 or 3 lines before rehearsals or right after school. I don't read her texts but I can tell by phone bill that these texts are most likely "what time is rehearsal" or "do you know what the physics homework is." They only go out in multi-aged groups to public, age-appropriate events... no one-on-one, no parties at someone's home and all parents are aware of who is involved (and having aquaintanships with the parents is good too.) We've never been uncomfortable with the older kids. It's more the boys her age who contact her all the time that make us nervous!

If you are getting a queasy feeling in your gut about it, it's always smart to listen. I wouldn't let your imagination go too wild though. Stick to what you actually know. If you are worried she's meeting up with him, why not hang around. If she's meeting friends at the mall, take her early for some window shopping and walk her over to see her friends for a quick godd-bye when the time comes. Tell her you want to take a picture of her and her friends before an ice skating trip. You'll get some memories and sort of keep an eye on whose involved without invading her space or depriving her of private time with buddies. I don't think forbidding a friendship is beneficial but perhaps turning him into family is. If she's attracted to his being older and sort of a secret, then your getting to know him and his family will be a HUGE turn-off lol.

It never hurts to have restrictions on the phone. Personally, I LOVE my kids having phones. It makes life easier for us all. However, we do have some limits one of which is that DD has to put all her electronics outside the bedroom door at 10pm (her bedtime.) This isn't so she won't text innapropriately, it's so she gets some actual sleep! It does have the added bonus of curtailing those night time conversations and reminding any older suiters that she's still a young teen with parental bounderies to contend with.


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## Jessnet (Apr 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whatsnextmom*
> 
> If you are getting a queasy feeling in your gut about it, it's always smart to listen. I wouldn't let your imagination go too wild though. Stick to what you actually know. If you are worried she's meeting up with him, why not hang around. If she's meeting friends at the mall, take her early for some window shopping and walk her over to see her friends for a quick godd-bye when the time comes. Tell her you want to take a picture of her and her friends before an ice skating trip. You'll get some memories and sort of keep an eye on whose involved without invading her space or depriving her of private time with buddies. I don't think forbidding a friendship is beneficial but perhaps turning him into family is. If she's attracted to his being older and sort of a secret, then your getting to know him and his family will be a HUGE turn-off lol.


We have a lot of mixed age interaction in our family, too. I totally agree your best bet is to get to know the kid and the friends.

While it is possible this is an older teen preying on younger, vulnerable girl, and the 'friendship' needs instant, immediate intervention, it's also equally possible this is an immature 17 year old making friends with someone who is only 4 years younger and actually more on par with his "relationship maturity" then girls his age. But the only way to make such a judgment is to get more involved with the kids and get to know them. I have a teen-aged DSD so I am around boys this age and I am still often surprised at how immature 17 year old boys can be - especially if they have had no previous "romantic" relationships. Truly, there is such a wide swath of maturity for teens.

In the spirit of full disclosure , I too was a young teen dating an older - immature - guy (14-19). My mother hated him and did her best to disrupt the relationship - including all the standards, losing her temper, threatening to call the police, grounding, and forbidding me to see him. The only thing it accomplished was to teach me how to be sneaky, make the relationship last longer than it would have normally (3 years), and to never - TO THIS DAY - confide in my mother about my relationships (which I know, sadly, hurts her). I am quite certain if she had only listened to me and gotten to know him, she would have realized I had it more together than anyone gave me credit for and he was in no way taking advantage of me. I still talk to him fairly regularly and am very proud of the choices I made at 14 - picking a guy who still respects me 20 years later - despite my mother's absolute convection this guy was nothing but a predator and that our relationship was inappropriate.

To sum up, my advice would be to tread lightly, respect your daughter's feelings, and make an informed decision on their 'friendship' because you could be saving her, or you could not be. Either way, with this subject you are laying the groundwork for the rest of your adult relationship with her.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Sorry I wasn't clear. Yes, she was stuck outside at school. Yes, it was cold, but not dangerously so. She was in 8th grade at the time and on Student Council. They had chosen some kids off an angel tree and went shopping after school to get the kids Christmas presents. The shopping trip did not take as long as expected and they arrived at school early. There were a few other students as well, but they couldn't get into the school. No, there's nothing inherently WRONG with being stuck waiting outside for half an hour, but it's no fun. I do not in any way consider it "entitlement" to not want to wait around for half an hour for my ride. When I, as an adult, am finished early with something and have to wait for my ride to come get me, (such as when I would fly for work and my plane would land early) I would absolutely call them when I landed so they could come get me early. Entitlement, IMO, is expecting to be allowed to use someone else's phone if I needed to contact someone, since payphones are quickly disappearing. It used to be that teens were always advised to carry a quarter just in case, not that advice isn't valid...there are very few places left to use that quarter.


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## sahli29 (Jan 23, 2004)

I would talk to my dd if she was interested in an older boy.At his age he will have a strong sexual interest ,and our children need to be aware of the risks associated with physical contact with another.A discussion of diseases, the emotional roller coaster of relationships,and sex. I don't know if I would cut the txting,but I would want to block the ability to send pictures.To many stories of sending nude pics that go viral all over school.My dd is 11 and no phone.If I did get the kids a phone it would be for calling.Not email or txting or anything.

I would not want my kids waiting outside anywhere.Without an adult they are a target of opportunity. I would want them to call right away.

You can let the coach know,but even if he gets rid of the boy(or watches closely) chances are the 2 will meet elsewhere.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:



> We have a lot of mixed age interaction in our family, too. I totally agree your best bet is to get to know the kid and the friends.
> 
> While it is possible this is an older teen preying on younger, vulnerable girl, and the 'friendship' needs instant, immediate intervention, it's also equally possible this is an immature 17 year old making friends with someone who is only 4 years younger and actually more on par with his "relationship maturity" then girls his age. But the only way to make such a judgment is to get more involved with the kids and get to know them. I have a teen-aged DSD so I am around boys this age and I am still often surprised at how immature 17 year old boys can be - especially if they have had no previous "romantic" relationships. Truly, there is such a wide swath of maturity for teens.
> 
> ...


This is all great advice.


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## imagine21 (Apr 7, 2007)

Well, your reactions have taught her to be secretive and not trust you. At this point, I would tell her that you messed up by looking at her texts, that you want to be able to have an open relationship with her and you want her to be able to come to you to discuss her transition into adulthood. Then wait for her to do it. The more you push, the less you'll get,


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## whatsnextmom (Apr 2, 2010)

This is really easy to say but I find it rather unfair. This is a 13-year-old girl. The transition from little girl to young adult is FILLED with trial and error. I have a 13-year-old and we're still trying to figure everything out and we're making mistakes on both fronts. Plus what is considered a "mistake" is relative. A mistake is really only one that didn't have a good overall long-term outcome. We don't know whether snooping has really hurt or helped in this situation. Yes, the girl is being sneeky but knowing how mom feels might also plant a seed of doubt about the relationship with this boy and make her think. Who knows what the long term results of this will be.

Trust in our home is something that is earned. My DD's always been ultra responsibly and trustworthy and so she's had a lot of freedom. She's been fumbling a bit lately. It's understandable. Starting high school is a major change. She's still trying to strike that balance between all the new social distractions, new freedoms and responsibilities. I caught her in a lie recently. Basically, we have a curfew on texting and computer. She's been breaking it and I knew she was. I mean, you just have to see the phone bill to see that she was texting after 10. I gave her every opportunity to tell the truth. I hinted that I might know something. I even told her she wouldn't get in trouble if she came forward. I gave her a couple weeks but she didn't tell the truth as to what she was doing nor change her ways. So, I busted her and she now has to put all her electronics outside her door at 10. I told her... YOU are teaching me how you want to be treated. If you don't want me to check-up on you, to be suspicious, then you need to show me you are someone who doesn't need to be checked up on. If you lie to me, well, then I can't trust what you say and so YES, I will have to snoop, to keep you closer and/or take away your freedoms. It's in HER power to be trusted or not.... I think it's wrong to blame a parent for not just giving blind trust in a 13-year-old who has been displaying suspicious behavior.

You can't really win either way. If she hadn't snooped and next month caught this girl in a physical relationship with this boy, she'd be getting flack for being too hands off and not paying attention. We all do what feels right at the time and the results really depend on the individual parties involved. Some kids do great with full freedom and hands-off parenting. Others flounder and latch on to unhealthy authority figures like older men/women or groups with harsh, dominate leaders.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imagine21*
> 
> Well, your reactions have taught her to be secretive and not trust you. At this point, I would tell her that you messed up by looking at her texts, that you want to be able to have an open relationship with her and you want her to be able to come to you to discuss her transition into adulthood. Then wait for her to do it. The more you push, the less you'll get,


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

OP: Does the 17 year old know that your dd is only 13? That's not really clear from the OP, and he may not even be aware of the age gap.

The gap itself doesn't bother me, in terms of them being friends, or even that she has a crush on him. This can be totally harmless, ime. However, if he really is pursuing her (and you saw the texts - I didn't, so I can't judge), and he knows that she's only 13, then I'd share your concerns, and I think it's time to talk to him and his parents, as well as your dd.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

If he worked with the swim team he would be aware of her age. Every meet program would have had it printed right after her name in each race. Also generally the swim ages for summer league will be ....., 12-under, 14-under, and then 15-18. Certainly he knows.

I understand the OPs concern but think he might be given a chance. Get to know the boy. Is he honorable? Sure they do think about sex but love is what love is. And dating in her age group ... 13 year old males are not all pure thoughts, flowers and butterflies. There will be predator boys and there will be good boyfriend material throughout this adolescent period.

Find out his intentions. Is he willing to do chaperoned dating and respect limits?


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## Schae (Oct 6, 2006)

May I ask why it would be a problem for them to be more than friends? As a previous poster (or two) mentioned, there can be differing maturity levels and they could end up working out quite well.

I think worrying about the cellphone and text messages is besides the point. The point is a better relationship with your daughter - I'd go about cultivating that. Have a chat with her (not a confrontation), talk about your concerns and what her thoughts and feelings are. More flies with honey than vinegar

good luck though, it's not easy


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> OP: Does the 17 year old know that your dd is only 13? That's not really clear from the OP, and he may not even be aware of the age gap.
> 
> The gap itself doesn't bother me, in terms of them being friends, or even that she has a crush on him. This can be totally harmless, ime. However, if he really is pursuing her (and you saw the texts - I didn't, so I can't judge), and he knows that she's only 13, then I'd share your concerns, and I think it's time to talk to him and his parents, as well as your dd.


I agree. When I was 13 I had a 17 yo boyfriend. He sexually abused me. This is not something I would take lightly with my past experiences.


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## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm only 23 so let me tell you when I was 13 I dated a 17 y/o and he wanted sex right away...thankfully I was very inexperienced and had religious morals so I refused...he dumped me (probably figuring I would come crawling back and giving him what he wanted) I was heart broken at that age but I told me mom all about it and she told me "He must not have really cared about you if that's all he wanted" she was right..he didn't. I got over it.

Also let me tell you...I didn't wait all that long (my mom passed away at 15) and at 16 I was doing it...with now DH actually lol but still all of my friends I know lost it at 15 or 16 and from what I understand they are doing it younger now....

my BFF was raised "strictly Catholic" (her words) and even had a "promise ring" not to have it and lost hers when she was 15....she has had 8 partners so far and is 21...

I am not saying anything against Catholics I was raised Catholic myself I am just giving an example

I have only had DH and one other guy when DH (then DP) called it quits for a few months before DD ever happened...

My sis had it at 16 and is 25 now...ooooooooh man she has had a LOT of guys...I would say 20+

unfortunately I feel like it is so inevitable for teens to loose it now...the pressure to is ridiculous (at 14 I had guys and friends telling me to just give it up already...) You can absolutely try and support her and encourage her to wait but mostly explain the safe ways to do it...even orally and all of that...b/c teens are doing it all the time...


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## 20605 (Oct 11, 2004)

It always makes me both ticked off and laugh when posters automatically go with "so take away the cell" or "when I was a kid, we didn't need no stinkin cell phones." type rants. Sorry but I live in the modern world, my dd is 12 and has a fully functional cell for the very reasons explained earlier. She has a key to the house as well. If you read the research about the current "teen" and young adult life - the cell is the new way to connect because all the young places to hang out are slowly but surely being shut down - yes we didn't have cells, but we had skating rinks, snack bars, other hangouts. Most of these are not options anymore. So the kids connect virtually as much as in person. To shout...take away their cells is sticking your head in the sand and not solving the problem.

To OP: Talking to your daughter openly and honestly about your concerns and yes...inviting said 17 year old over for dinner are good answers and actually address the problem. I agree - if all he wants is in her pants, being obligated to "meet the parents" and converse will be way too much trouble.


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## sharon71 (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rani*
> 
> It always makes me both ticked off and laugh when posters automatically go with "so take away the cell" or "when I was a kid, we didn't need no stinkin cell phones." type rants. Sorry but I live in the modern world, my dd is 12 and has a fully functional cell for the very reasons explained earlier. She has a key to the house as well. If you read the research about the current "teen" and young adult life - the cell is the new way to connect because all the young places to hang out are slowly but surely being shut down - yes we didn't have cells, but we had skating rinks, snack bars, other hangouts. Most of these are not options anymore. So the kids connect virtually as much as in person. To shout...take away their cells is sticking your head in the sand and not solving the problem.
> 
> To OP: Talking to your daughter openly and honestly about your concerns and yes...inviting said 17 year old over for dinner are good answers and actually address the problem. I agree - if all he wants is in her pants, being obligated to "meet the parents" and converse will be way too much trouble.


I so agree with you.I have a 13 and 15 yr old dd and have done just what you suggest here. My 15 yr old is allowed to date someone less than 3 yrs older than her( meaning no older than 17) and my 13 yr old is not allowed to date yet.

My 15 yr old has a good head on her shoulders and has dumped at least 3 boyfriends for trying to get in her pants,she knows she's not ready to have sex however when she is she's not afraid to come to me or her dad and discuss her options and plans.


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## luv-my-boys (Dec 8, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soso-lynn*
> 
> . You can get a phone with GPS to know where she is, you could make a point of confirming with other kids' parents if she says she is going to visit them.


 This is going to sound kinda sneaky but if you do go ahead and get a phone with GPS do not tell her. Simply say you got new phones. A friend of mine did this with her teen and as soon as they knew about the gps they started leaving their phones with friends at their house or whereever they said they were going because all the gps does is tell you the physical location of the phone not who has it.


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## Kreeblim (Dec 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rani*
> 
> It always makes me both ticked off and laugh when posters automatically go with "so take away the cell" or "when I was a kid, we didn't need no stinkin cell phones." type rants. Sorry but I live in the modern world, my dd is 12 and has a fully functional cell for the very reasons explained earlier. She has a key to the house as well. If you read the research about the current "teen" and young adult life - the cell is the new way to connect because all the young places to hang out are slowly but surely being shut down - yes we didn't have cells, but we had skating rinks, snack bars, other hangouts. Most of these are not options anymore. So the kids connect virtually as much as in person. To shout...take away their cells is sticking your head in the sand and not solving the problem.
> 
> To OP: Talking to your daughter openly and honestly about your concerns and yes...inviting said 17 year old over for dinner are good answers and actually address the problem. I agree - if all he wants is in her pants, being obligated to "meet the parents" and converse will be way too much trouble.


Personally I just don't understand the cell phone becoming the scapegoat in this thread. The gist of this story "girl dating guy who is too old/wrong type for her parents" is so cliche' that there have been stories just like it going back for thousands of years. Do you really think Romeo and Juliet's story would have ended with Juliet's cell phone being taken away?

Not that this is some kind of deep love story...the truth is that we don't really know what is going on here, which is why having a really honest and open talk with her and inviting him over would probably be way more helpful than just attempting to shut down her current routes of communication with the boy. IMHO, if removing a cell phone or texting capability alone is enough to stop whatever relationship they have, then it wasn't a serious enough involvement to warrant such a drastic measure in the first place and the damage it does to your relationship with your daughter would be irreparable.


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## poppiesinjuly (Sep 22, 2009)

When my sister was younger, she wanted to date guys who were several years older than her (She is 19 now). My mom just told them that they could see each other, but only at their ("our house", but I'm 13 years older than her, I didn't live there anymore) house or on family outings.

So, she had guys over, my mom didn't hover or anything, she could invite them when they went to movies, out to dinner, etc, but not on dates alone.

She did end up seeing 2 or 3 guys who were older, but it got boring because it wasn't controversial and was supervised, and she broke up with all of them eventually.

Now she's in college and who knows what she's doing, lol. But, she has a good head on her shoulders and knows that there are always people she can talk to when she needs them. (Me & Mom)

My mom sort of did the same thing when I dated someone in high school she hated. She never once said she hated him, let him come to our house, never said a word. It got boring fast for me too. I think we dated for all of 3 months.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Is the 13 yo still in 8th grade, or is she in high school. To me, once people are in high school they are really not going to stop the relationship just because they cant text. To the defense of the 17 yo, I had a 18 yo boyfriend when I was 14 and he never tried to push me to have sex. He was totally respectful, right up to the day he broke my heart because he moved away to college.


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

I have similar experiences as the pp did, was with a guy and went to the school prom as a 14 year old, with a senior. I never really hung out with guys my same age b'c they all seemed immature and were thinking more about getting their first time, etc. than my older boyfriends. I also didn't stick in any relationship where I felt pressured. My stepdad was a super alcoholic pervert and I was also sexually assaulted by an uncle (my mother's brother) at 15, so, I guess I'm saying that dangers can come from anywhere for a teen girl.

I don't know you or your daughter but my best suggestion would be to try to keep the line of communication and trust between your daughter and yourself as open and understanding as possible. And always let her know the truth of awful things that *can* happen to a teen girl... but let her know how much you trust that she's a strong person, what some choices in sexuality can lead to, etc. Some venereal diseases last your entire life. I was lucky and never contracted any, but had friends who did, and it was terrible to witness. I was always too self-conscious and afraid to get too close to guys to have sex much. although I did have 2 sexual experiences (boyfriends) before getting out of highschool, and one of those, when I did find a guy I wanted to explore that with, I got pregnant at 17 and made the choice to abort and it still haunts me to this day. I have nightmares often and its been years since I did that horrible thing. I'm not saying it's horrible for everyone, I just have always had regret.

I think truth of reading about what could happen in a very very non-threatening way could be pretty effective for a teen girl. I always saw sex as a glamorized and adult choice, plus natural hormones... all of that together, without reading about the bad parts, well, I thought it'd be neat to try out. Also, something I never had but think would have been great to have knowledge of, is a solid self-defense class. Sorry you're dealing with this, I hope your dd stays strong and has nice relationships and none of the hardships of falling head over heals for an older guy. Oh, btw, the guy I got pregnant with was a half a year younger than me! So, it was the fact that I was unaware of using a top quality condom VS one that he'd gotten from his dad's bar's condom vending machine in the heat of the moment. Knowledge and preparedness is power over things like teen pg and disease, etc. HTH!


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

I'm always surprised that it seems to be a general consensus that young teen girls are in such a different place sexually than the guys. I would match my 13 dd sexual interest against a 17 year old boys any day. When I was young most of the girls I knew were sexually active and it wasn't because we were being pressured into by older boys who had different expectations than we did. Anyway...I have an absolute rule that my dd cannot date anyone with more than a three year age difference. This is to protect them, primarily, I don't want any dumb kids with no impulse control ending up registered as a sex offender. I don't even want jerky teen boys who are only thinking of themselves to end up prosecuted. I would check the laws in your state and then let his parents know he is in a danger zone.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pigpokey*
> 
> Find out his intentions. Is he willing to do chaperoned dating and respect limits?


Chaperoned dating? There is no way my 13 year old would be dating a 17 year old period.

I would really be wondering what a 17 year old wants to do with a 13 year old anyhow? To me, that is very odd. 4 years is a lot at these ages. A 17 year old dating a 13 year old is just not appropriate. I would take away text messages, OP, and contact his parents if he is in fact attempting to date her.


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

I hesitate to even post, but honestly, I see no power within the last two posts at all. I see distance making statements. I say this as an advocate of what you, as parents, are trying to do... but I would have found ways around what both of you are saying and seem to be trying to implement, and then I would feel like you didn't even want to try to know me at all, if I were your teen.

Sorry if that stings but I think the point of this thread is to try to get close enough to the teen child to avoid his/her future problems. Thats why I spilled my own beans, its not comfortable, but if it can help someone else, thats life coming around. I'm not trying to instigate issues between us posters at all. And as embarrassed as I could be by letting it all out here , I went forth and did it, hopefully it could help OP's dd and her understanding with each other somehow.

I did mention the the guy who got me pregnant was a half year younger than I was. It happens. It is NOT age or being infatuated with an older guy. Its putting trust in your daughter and giving the time to her to instill self-esteem and for her to know what good and bad choices can lead to. Also, knowing where she can find good quality condoms and other forms of self protection should she choose to go there. It's a LOT about not sticking your head in the sand and then freaking out on her for not doing what you think she "should have done". Prevention can be as easy as guiding her where to read about people who have had real life experiences in dealing with disease and teen pg or abortion, etc.... to giving her good resources for top quality condoms and info against how to protect herself from other STD's. She's a person, who is free to make choices. Your strongest avenue here is to be her guide, not her cop.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Those _choices_ are not the sort of thing that 13 year olds are mature enough to take on, sorry. Pregnancy, STDs, HIV. Not to mention the boy being arrested for statutory rape if she changes her mind after the fact or if *anyone* finds out about it. And if you, as her parent, know about it, you can be held as an accomplice. It's happened.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


> Moreover, if stuck outside their home, unless it's extremely rural, then why was there no place else to go to. (And if rural, then would there be cell coverage anyway???)


That's what I was thinking- cell coverage is really spotty around here.

A 13 year old does not *need* a cell phone. Heck, I don't need a cell phone! It's fine to decide that's it's more important for you to have the ability to be in contact with your child than to restrict phone usage, but framing it as a "need" is just inaccurate. It's primarily a convienence. Many people, even teenagers, manage to get along just fine without them.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kittywitty*
> 
> Not to mention the boy being arrested for statutory rape if she changes her mind after the fact or if *anyone* finds out about it. And if you, as her parent, know about it, you can be held as an accomplice. It's happened.


The impact this could have on the young man's life is HUGE. He needs an adult that he respects to explain to him what it would mean to go through the rest of his life with the label "sexual predator."

Relationships between adults and children (and this is right on the border) need VERY clear boundaries to protect BOTH parties.


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## JulianneW (Dec 17, 2010)

I dont see why everyone is jumping to drug, STD and pregnancy conclusions. Why cant a 13 yr old and 17 yr old with common interests be friends? My husband and I became friends when I was 14 and he was 16, we both ran track. I was a freshman he was a sophomore ( I skipped a grade). At the time he actually liked my older sister. Did I have a huge crush on him...of course. We were friends, texted talked on the phone, hung out. My question is this...why do people automatically assume they are having sex or will have sex?

When my now husband turned 18 I was still 15 for two months, my now FIL freaked out because "he was going to get me pregnant and I was going to ruin his life". No we were not having sex, we had kissed. His Dad never took the time to get to know me or find out anything about us. On the other hand my parents let him come over, hang out with the family and got to know him. My Grandpa worked as a basketball coach at our HS and told me then that "he was the most mature, best kid that he had every met in all his years as a coach". My grandpa coached for 35 years.

We shared common interested and had a lot of fun together, we liked each other but it wasnt sexual. My point is this unless you get to know the individuals you have no idea. Communication is key. Some friends in high schools attitude was, my parents assume i'm having sex so I might as well. I on the other hand knew that my parents trusted me, I did not want to lose that trust.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PoppyMama*
> 
> I'm always surprised that it seems to be a general consensus that young teen girls are in such a different place sexually than the guys. I would match my 13 dd sexual interest against a 17 year old boys any day.


This.

I have to say that I've realized I jumped to a conclusion earlier in the thread. From the OP's comments about the texts she read, I thought she knew that the boy was pressuring her dd, but on rereading, I'm not sure how I got that out of what she wrote. I wouldn't assume that he's pushing the girl, just based on their ages, either. The worst pressure I ever got in this area was from a guy my own age, when I was 13. The older guys I dated? They definitely wanted sex, but they weren't as pushy about it.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *number572*
> 
> I hesitate to even post, but honestly, I see no power within the last two posts at all. I see distance making statements. I say this as an advocate of what you, as parents, are trying to do... but I would have found ways around what both of you are saying and seem to be trying to implement, and then I would feel like you didn't even want to try to know me at all, if I were your teen.
> 
> ...


 I think that this idea of guidance would be appropriate for a 16 year old, but NOT a 13 year old. 13 years old. This is way too young to be making these sorts of decisions. It is still a parent's responsibility to protect their child at this point. The vast majority of 13 year olds are not capable of fully thinking through consequences of their actions which is why they still need rules...like no dating a 17 year old.

And to the person commenting about dating a 16 year old when they were 14...two years is much much different than four. Developmentally a 13 and 17 year old are in completely different worlds.


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## Kreeblim (Dec 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I think one issue you might be missing though, is whether simply outright banning a certain behavior is the most effective way to stop it. Especially in a girl that is out of the house more than IN the house for things like school and sports. 13 years olds can and do have sex and get pregnant. They can and do have the desire to do sexual things and are not always "pressured" into it. They do these things despite 99% of parents forbidding such behavior. I think most of the commenters wouldn't exactly be jumping for joy at the idea of a 13 year old and a 17 year old having a sexual relationship, but there is a pretty wide difference of opinion about whether "forbid them from seeing each other and take away her cell phone" will be effective in the long or short term. It really depends on how involved they actually are, and at this point we don't know if there anything beyond a friendship. Over reaction can really backfire, which is why getting to know the kid rather than simply ensuring that she will keep her involvement with him secret by flipping out, is what many people are suggesting.


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## JulianneW (Dec 17, 2010)

I would agree that if the 13 yr old were DATING a 17 yr old that would be a whole different ball game. You have every right not to let your 13 yr old date.

*"He claims that they are just friends, but I don't believe him or her."*

The BIG thing being overlooked here is they could very well just be friends. He may think she is smart, funny, cute and nice to talk to without it going any further. Yes, she may like him and he enjoys talking to her but why assume it goes further? Its not socially acceptable for a 17 yr old boy to date a 13 yr old. My point, its probably not something he would want. He has expressed NO desire to be her boyfriend. Why are people assuming he is a pervert?

They both maintain they are friends. Talking and texting does not equate sneaking around or an inappropriate relationship.

Communication is key as well as trust.

I would take her aside and tell her that you are very sorry that you freaked out, she is your baby girl and the idea of her growing up is scary. Tell her that you would like to know more about her friend and that your sorry you jumped to conclusions. Have a frank conversation with her about sex and dating. Discuss what age she and you think is appropriate to start dating. Ask her when she thinks having sex is appropriate? Discuss both your opinions about it. Discuss why you were worried about her and her friendship with this boy. Let her know that you are supportive of her being friends with this boy and help her set boundaries for their friendship. Discuss what things are appropriate in friendship, which ones cross the line and how to respond to them. Let her know she can always come to you no matter the situation.

I do not feel it is appropriate to talk to coaches or parents, since you have not yet established that an inappropriate relationship is going on.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JulianneW*
> 
> The BIG thing being overlooked here is they could very well just be friends. He may think she is smart, funny, cute and nice to talk to without it going any further. Yes, she may like him and he enjoys talking to her but why assume it goes further? Its not socially acceptable for a 17 yr old boy to date a 13 yr old. My point, its probably not something he would want. He has expressed NO desire to be her boyfriend. Why are people assuming he is a pervert?


I sort of agree with you, with a few differences. First, it would depend on the exact content of the texts, which the mother hasn't shared. Second, we live in a culture where "friends with benefits" is seen as a reasonable alternative to dating. Second, my main point was that relationships between minors and adults need clear boundaries, and this one doesn't have those. But other than that, I think you make some good points.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Wow, now texting between teens labels the boy involved a predator?


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> Is the 13 yo still in 8th grade, or is she in high school. To me, once people are in high school they are really not going to stop the relationship just because they cant text. To the defense of the 17 yo, I had a 18 yo boyfriend when I was 14 and he never tried to push me to have sex. He was totally respectful, right up to the day he broke my heart because he moved away to college.


 I dated a guy who was 17 when I had just turned 14. We did not have sex, he didn't pressure me even once to go any further than I was comfortable. As I look back, he was a GREAT guy. We rode around in his car (also looking back I can't believe my parents let me ride in a car with him! I was a really responsible kid though, so I guess they had no reason to not trust me and my judgement, AND they had met and knew him and formed their own judgement of his respect/responsibility), hung out at my house mostly, went to the movies sometimes, and the most we ever did was kiss, I don't even think we got to "second base".

That was back in the stone ages though, like 1988.







BUT....there alway have been, and always will be, guys out there who like a girl and aren't going to pressure her into sex. If you've seen texts that prove otherwise, then I'd figure out how to get your daughter's trust back and open up honest, frank conversations with her about both the physical AND emotional issues around sex.

I just had to give a shout out to another 17-yo guy who was a decent one.

Good luck, OP.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

I'm not saying the guy is a pervert or a predator. I'm saying he is stepping into dangerous territory and he may not even realize it. If he was my son I would appreciate a heads up so that I could talk to him about the risks. I dated older when I was a teen but the legal risks then aren't what they are now.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

My sympathies. My then 12.5 year old dd went to a summer music camp last summer and had a very similar thing happen with a 16.5 year old boy. In our house, the kids are not allowed to date at that age, period, let alone a guy who is that much older. I don't believe for a minute that the guys just want to be friends. It's creepy. I had just given dd a cell phone for her birthday, right before camp, and they were texting up a storm. He did want to go out with her and asked her to movies, etc., which we did not allow to happen.

One of the conditions of her having the cell phone (or using the computer) is that she has no expectation of privacy, and knows we can see who she texts and may read her messages if we feel we need to. She doesn't like that, understandably, but her alternative is no cell phone. I do think the idea of getting the GPS is something to consider in the OP's case.

Fortunately for us, the boy doesn't live close by and other than the camp, they'd have no reason to see each other. After a few tearful weeks, the "relationship" ended, I think because he knew we weren't going to give any opportunities for "dating."

The cell phones absolutely are a factor in this kind of situation. It just makes the sneaky constant communication all the easier. Kids also have a bizarre instant affection for each other now that goes beyond this thing. They all tell each other that they "love" each other, including their casual friends, all the time. They make each other "family" on facebook. I totally flipped out when I read her text to him telling him she loved him, but then realized she says that to all her friends, too. I find that appalling, and a cheapening of what love really means.

In our situation, we talk about everything, and we discussed why we were opposed to her dating, etc. She had some of her friends tell her he was too old. But what it boils down to is that she was very, very flattered. And sadly, like many very young teenaged girls, she feels great pressure to have a "boyfriend." We had endless discussions about how this her time to get to know herself, explore her interests, focus on her music, her hobbies and her education. We also talked about her becoming the very cool young lady she is and the repercussions of early relationships. But still, she really wants a boyfriend, I know.

If it had persisted with my dd, I would have contacted the boy's parents and probably the boy directly. He could go to jail if they were sexually active. In the OP's case, if the kids on the swim team are mostly much younger than he is, I'd really suspect this guy's motivation for hanging around helping, and I'd talk to the coach.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Yep, it is entirely one thing if two 16 year olds fool around with each other. But in this case, the age difference is too great. He'll be 18 at some point soon and too old to be messing with a 13 year who may or may not know her own mind.

I have a son. We are very straight with him about girls and sex and consequences of such.


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## sillygrl (Feb 10, 2008)

As messed up as it is, it was my mom freaking out *thinking* I was having sex (at 14) that pushed me into actually doing it (at..14). I know it's not right and it's only an excuse, but at that age, I decided that if I was being accused of it, might as well. The problem was that she didn't trust me, she wouldn't believe me, and she looked at me as if I was a little child with no reasoning capabilities. She also kicked me out of the house so I moved in with my dad.

Who did treat me like I had some sense and was smart and intelligent. And things changed drastically for me.

Now, at 29 yrs old, I know I had little sense back then and was very naive, but you couldn't have convinced me of that back then. Even at 13, I thought I was very grown up. I don't have teens right now (and trust me, the thought of having three teens at once scares me to death sometimes, lol) so I can just tell you what I remember thinking and feeling back then.

I like the idea of accepting this as a friendship. Having an open talk with your daughter, and appologizing for freaking out about it, etc, will be a good way to open communication. Then letting her know it's okay if she wants to have a friendship, and to invite him over for supper or something. Reality is that relationships at this age are over pretty quickly, especially if you make it "boring" by not allowing the level of secrecy.

Anyone remember how drinking became not quite so much fun when they turned 21? That's because it wasn't breaking any rules to do it anymore, lol


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

I was 14 dating a 17 year old (and we quickly both turned 15 & 18), my parents hated the age gap, especially since he was done with high school. We didn't have cellphones, they forbid me from seeing him when I was 16. I still saw him, for 9 months I was grounded from him and still saw him almost daily. I got into far more trouble when I was sneaking around. Having a phone or not made no difference. Because my parents forbade me from seeing him I did it even more, to spite them. Now I'm married to him, it's been nearly 16 years since that all happened. (and they like him now, lol). He was definitely less mature than me, even being 3 years older.

My point is, limiting technology or forbidding something isn't going to stop it. It's far more effective to just have good open communication and build some trust there so she does come to you instead of hiding things. I'd also make a point to get to know any of my kids friends, whether I thought they are too old for them or not. Getting to know them and also showing how involved I am is going to make a difference to someone potentially courting my dd.


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## soso-lynn (Dec 11, 2007)

I just want to point out that limiting access to cell phones and other restrictions and having an open, honest relationship with your daughter are not mutually exclusive.


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## Jessnet (Apr 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soso-lynn*
> 
> I just want to point out that limiting access to cell phones and other restrictions and having an open, honest relationship with your daughter are not mutually exclusive.


Unless her motivation for limiting access and imposing restrictions is because she doesn't trust her daughter...which is what seems to be the case here.


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## girlfactory (Nov 11, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kittywitty*
> 
> Those _choices_ are not the sort of thing that 13 year olds are mature enough to take on, sorry. Pregnancy, STDs, HIV. Not to mention the boy being arrested for statutory rape if she changes her mind after the fact or if *anyone* finds out about it. And if you, as her parent, know about it, you can be held as an accomplice. It's happened.


I completely agree with this. There are numerous studies, showing how the teenage brain is not fully devEloped, that they canNOT make appropriate decisions at times. And this could be the MOST important decision of her life so far; whether to go all the way with a boy that has NO business with her anyhow. I really wouldn't let my dd (14 in 9th grade) even be in the position to have to make this type of decision. They just aren't capable. And yeah , here's the big white elephant in the room: STATUTORY RAPE, DATE RAPE, it happens *all* the time


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *girlfactory*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Again, I feel it is a gigantic leap to go from test messages to the OP's DD being forced to make a decision about whether she wants to be sexually active. Girls do not sleep with every boy with whom they text, no mattter what the age of the boy.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Exactly. (Agreeing with Choli.)

If you don't want her to have sex, then don't turn this guy into the "forbidden fruit." Make it ok for him to come over, have dinner with the family, and play board games, or whatever innocuous family fun you want to invite him to.


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

FWIW, when I was 14, I put my parents through the same thing when I snuck out of the house in the middle of the night to hang out with a 19yo who I had a HUGE crush on. He never tried a single thing. I reconnected with him on FB last year and we had a good laugh over how much I "loved" him back then! So, he may not be a guy after her virginity here. It may really just be a friendship with a crush on her end of things. Maybe it's an ego-boost for him. Regardless, open communication! Tell her what your hopes are for her current and future relationships. I wish my parents sat me down and did this. I ended up pregnant at 19 (with my now 11yo dd) with a boy they hated and I had to lie to date. We lasted 3 years.  I honestly believe that if my parents cared enough to sit me down and talk with me, I probably would have made different choices for myself and now current dc. I understand fully why they hated him. I just wish they told me why at the time. They didn't. They just flipped out and forbade me from seeing him.


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## Climbing Rose (Dec 10, 2006)

Speaking as a girl who met her future DH at 14, and who had an age-gap big enough to bother her parents... I wouldn't forbid the relationship altogether. Honestly, if she has any sort of freedom (going to school, swim team, out with friends, etc) she *is* going to see him, whether you know it or not.

But I think it's totally fair to set limits that you are comfortable with. It helped my parents a lot to have future-DH over to our house. They saw he was a good guy, and of course we were in a family setting. After a time, it upgraded to me being able to do things with his family, and us being able to do things in groups.

Frankly, if he is willing to come over to your place and be a part of even the boring or hard-work family days, knowing she isn't allowed to go alone with him until she is 16 or something, and is content to see her in a group, he is probably a decent guy. If he only wanted one thing, there are very sadly much easier ways than to help your DH paint a room and eat dinner with you all before you play Monopoly, yk?

If you aren't okay with the cell phone thing, there is so much you can do. Change her number, call the company and ask for a detailed bill that shows every call (we get that every month), take away texting, etc, etc.

But just saying, as a former teenager, that forbiding completely, short of locking her in her closet, probably isn't going to be very effective.


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## joynsyde (Dec 1, 2009)

I agree with many others that you might be a little too harsh with her. Just because she's 13 doesn't mean she's not a person. Try to see behind her eyes. haven't you ever had a crush that you couldn't get rid of? I have, and it's miserable! Telling her she can't hang out with the guy anymore is like telling her she can't eat! Even though you're doing it for her own good, she will not feel loved by this action. If I were you, I'd tackle this on three fronts.

1) your own feelings. Is 4 years really too big a difference for you, or is it more that you think she's not old enough to date? Are you bringing your own personal issues into this in any way? What are you afraid of, really? Once that's all clear in your mind and heart, the next step is

2) Her logic. As others have said, you should have an honest heart-to-heart with your precious daughter. Use this as an opportunity to talk about where you both stand on relationships in general, as well as this specific relationship. See if you can work through with her whether or not it's really a good idea for them to date each other and why/why not. Of course, if logic tells her that this isn't the guy for her (or that it's simply nt the right time to be involved in a relationship), that does nothing to help her with her feelings. So next is

3) Her feelings. I recently came across an article that I WISH I had had 10 years ago! http://joegoldfarb.com/awareness/why-we-have-crushes Basically, the psychological reason a person gets crushes is that there is an unrecognized aspect of the self that needs attention and love, seen reflected in the crush.

An activity I have started doing (I'm one who crushes easily) is this: If I determine that I don't really, logically, want this crush in my life, I make a list of all the things that are attracting me to him. Then with each one, I actively recognize that this is a part of myself and express gratitude for it.

Example: -> He is very friendly and outgoing (whereas I tend to be an introvert) (then I tell myself "I am grateful for the fact that people and social relationships are important to me. I love that I am sensitive to the people around me."

-> He is tall with dark hair (then I tell myself "Tall people with dark hair exude confidence and mystique. I love that I am a confident person, with a mystique that I and others find alluring."

I've found that doing this exercise changes the misery and clinginess of a crush into a simply fantastic feeling, and the crush goes away in a few days!!!!


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## Mudkip (Mar 9, 2011)

It doesn't seem right to take her phone when she hasn't really done anything wrong. Just be aware of what your kid is doing. Then, ff you actually catch her in the act of doing something wrong, punish her.


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## triana1326 (Aug 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama*
> 
> The vast majority of 13 year olds are not capable of fully thinking through consequences of their actions which is why they still need rules...like no dating a 17 year old.


This comment is what it's all about - you need to know your teen and her maturity level and make sure she's educated in her choices and in her body.

I was a 13 y/o freshman when I lost my virginity. I did it knowing full well the consequences of sex. I knew I was prepared and ready for it. I had even gone down to our local family planning clinic and put myself on birth control. I insisted on condoms each and every time. I feel that it's no surprise that I was the only one of my group of friends to not end up pregnant during or right after high school. My mother didn't find out until I was 16 about all of this, but she knew early on that I could be trusted not to make stupid decisions.

My first boyfriend was an 18 year old senior. We were up front and honest about the age difference to both sets of parents. The school even called my mother to tell her that I was dating an 18 y/o and she said they were shocked to know that we had already told our parents In fact, I only dated older guys, because guys my age were dumb and immature. My parents knew that if they forbade me to see the guys I was dating, that they would only drive me to sneaking around and lying. But the key point was that they trusted me. They gave me limits, which I tested from time to time, but I respected that they gave me those limits.

I'm not sure where I'm going with all of this, but you should examine your trust and comfort level with your daughter and her choices. Is she someone who is responsible, trustworthy, etc.? Does she have the knowledge to protect herself from the consequences of any possible sexual activity? Have you gotten to know this boy at all? We all can sit here and give you all the advice in the world, but it all comes down to you and your relationship with your daughter. Good luck and I hope things turn out well for you and your family.


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## incorrigible (Jun 3, 2007)

This may not go over well on this board, but I'ma throw it out there anyway.

When I was younger I had a thing for older guys and my older brother couldn't get through to me. So, despite the short term damage to our relationship, he made sure I would be safe. He's not a big guy, nor were his friends, so he would just grab random intimidating looking guys off the street. You explain the situation to them and most guys are happy to help. He'd take this pack of guys to have a talk with my older bf. It usually went something like "Hi. I'm Incorrigible's older brother, and these are some of my friends. I just want to make sure you understand that if you so much as look at her longingly, we're going to beat you within an inch of your life...and then have you arrested. Are we clear? Good."

I did eventually lose my virginity. To a really sweet guy my own age that I'm still in touch with and respect as much as he does me. I didn't do anything truly stupid (despite my best efforts) until I was 17-18, and that phase was short lived because by then I had enough perspective to see how stupid I was being and move on.

This method TOTALLY FAILS if mom does it though. Dad, maybe, but not mom.

All that getting to know the boy and supervising them n stuff really does sound like good ideas. I totally plan to employ them myself. (while at the same time turning a blind eye to DS having private talks with the boys when needed. I believe in non-violent parenting, but I don't believe in holding anything back when it comes to defending my children from the outside world.)


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I would contact his parents and show them the text messages and let them know if anymore come through, you will go to the police.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> You could also always just change your dd's cell phone number too...


That doesn't make sense to me - dd could easily give the guy her new number.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> What is wrong with a 13 year old waiting outside (even if it's cold) for 30 minutes? I honestly don't see anything wrong with this at all. Kids need to learn that sometimes you have to wait, sometimes the conditions are not perfect, and that the world doesn't always revolve around them and their schedule. This is an example of the kind of entitlement that I'm trying to steer dd away from. She can be inconvenienced sometimes. I will inconvenienced sometimes. It's part of REAL life.


Yes, this!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jessnet*
> 
> In the spirit of full disclosure , I too was a young teen dating an older guy (14-19). I am quite certain if she had only listened to me and gotten to know him, she would have realized I had it more together than anyone gave me credit for and he was in no way taking advantage of me. I still talk to him fairly regularly and am very proud of the choices I made at 14 - picking a guy who still respects me 20 years later - despite my mother's absolute convection this guy was nothing but a predator and that our relationship was inappropriate.
> 
> To sum up, my advice would be to tread lightly, respect your daughter's feelings, and make an informed decision on their 'friendship' because you could be saving her, or you could not be. Either way, with this subject you are laying the groundwork for the rest of your adult relationship with her.


I dated an 18 year old when I was 14, and he was one of the most respectful/least pushy guys I ever spent time with (the other was 27 when I was 18). I am also friends with them now, all these years later - and also like Jessnet 100% good with the choices I made then. I made less than stellar choices in high school with a guy my own age. I just don't think a four year age difference means much of anything at all truthfully. It depends on the people involved.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> Sorry I wasn't clear. Yes, she was stuck outside at school. Yes, it was cold, but not dangerously so. She was in 8th grade at the time. The shopping trip did not take as long as expected and they arrived at school early. There were a few other students as well, but they couldn't get into the school. No, there's nothing inherently WRONG with being stuck waiting outside for half an hour, but it's no fun. I do not in any way consider it "entitlement" to not want to wait around for half an hour for my ride. When I, as an adult, am finished early with something and have to wait for my ride to come get me, (such as when I would fly for work and my plane would land early) I would absolutely call them when I landed so they could come get me early. Entitlement, IMO, is expecting to be allowed to use someone else's phone if I needed to contact someone, since payphones are quickly disappearing.


Waiting 30 minutes is mildly annoying. Asking to use a classmate's phone is not entitlement; it is a reasonable request, and my teen has done it many times when her phone was forgotten or out of battery. That said, I do think kids of middle school/high school age can reasonably have cell phones. My dd1 got one when she started 7th grade, and the school was in a neighboring town and she did a variety of after school activities that - like in your example - sometimes ended earlier or later than expected. I don't think the 13 year old in this situation has done anything that requires her cell phone to be taken away - although to be fair, we don't know what the texts said.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pigpokey*
> 
> I understand the OPs concern but think he might be given a chance. Get to know the boy. Is he honorable? Sure they do think about sex but love is what love is. And dating in her age group ... 13 year old males are not all pure thoughts, flowers and butterflies. There will be predator boys and there will be good boyfriend material throughout this adolescent period.
> 
> Find out his intentions. Is he willing to do chaperoned dating and respect limits?


This is exactly what I think too. Another 13 year old might be much riskier for your dd than the 17 year old! I have found that to be true in my own teen years. A 27 year old texting your 13 year old - problem. A 17 year old texting your 10 year old - problem. 17 and 13 - no inherent problem in my book.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> I would contact his parents and show them the text messages and let them know if anymore come through, you will go to the police.


This seems like a huge overreaction. And a quick way to ruin your relationship with your teen daughter.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

OP, any update? How are things going?


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## leechen (Mar 27, 2011)

Hi, this is a difficult and scary situation, i have 5 boys so i am on the other side of this coin. Get to know the boys parents/family, see what their standards are. Talk to your daughter about different relations and what each age group gets out of that relationship. Invite the boy over to your house instead of meeting at his house or out and let him know how you feel. Good luck


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## urbangoddess2 (Feb 17, 2011)

13 isn't so young and 17 isn't so old, in my opinion. When I was 13, we were all acutely aware of sex and about half of the kids in my grade 7 class were sexually active (with other 13 year olds). What makes a dangerous situation is secrecy. When I was 13 (heck, until I was 18!) I wasn't allowed to date. FORBIDDEN. No phone calls, no dates, no talking to boys period. So I did it in secret and I lied to my parents about what I was doing. This could have been a bad situation for me had it not been for my boyfriends parents. They trusted their sons enough and invited me to their house to spend time, even taking me to my bf's ballgames or on our dates (those were unsupervised--you have to allow some privacy and freedom imo). Even my now DH was 24 when I first met him, when I was 16. My dad wanted to kill him (but didn't stop us from talking-he just watched closely).

My DSD is 11 and not interested in boys yet, but when the time comes I want her to be able to trust me to talk to me. I want her to have a safe experience building relationships with the opposite sex and exploring her own identity and sexuality (not necessarily to have sex, but that would be her choice).

The problem here is (from what I gathered from the OP) is that it isn't known whether they are starting/in a relationship! Jumping the gun because of an age gap? Let them be friends, but supervise it and keep an open relationship with your daughter. Invite the kid over and get to know him.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

I'm another who thinks it could easily just be friendship. I had plenty of older male friends at that age and none of them did anything even remotely romantic/sexual with me. When I did start dating (15 or so), almost every guy I dated was at least 4 years older than me (when I was 15, my bf was 19, when I was 16, I dated a 21 year old) and they were respectful and (as others have said) way less pushy than boys my own age who were so focused on losing their own virginity that they couldn't think of anything else. The older guys weren't virgins, but since they had BTDT they knew what sex was and what it wasn't - it wasn't something mysterious to "achieve" anymore - and they weren't interested in talking me/pushing me into doing anything I didn't want to do. When I did have sex for the first time, it actually ended up being with someone about a year younger than me - my mom forbidding me from being friends with/dating guys outside of a narrow age range wouldn't have made any difference as to when I became sexually active, unless her forbidding me actually ended up pushing me into doing things that I otherwise wouldn't out of rebellion. I was a pretty quietly rebellious kid, and for those types I think "forbidding" is very dangerous, indeed. I pretty much did everything my mother told me I was never, under any circumstances, to do - and she never knew about any of them.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Im still surprised that most people seem to think the only problem is her being pressured into something. I have a 13 year old and I would be completely unsurprised if she was the pushy one. When I was young statutory rape was not prosecuted that often and the sex offender laws were much different. As the mother of boys I worry a lot about this issue. I was watching lisa ling's piece on sex offenders recently and one of the people she was interviewing was convicted of statutory rape at 18 for consensual sex with a 14 year old. That is not a pedophile to me and its somethingthat could happen to a lot of people.


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## Modmom15 (Feb 23, 2011)

I would tell him, very casually, that if I ever saw, or even heard of him doing anything inappropriate with my daughter, I would have him arrested for statutory rape. I know a lot of people are being open minded and stuff, but 17 and 13 is an enormous difference - emotionally, physically, everything just doesn't match up. Of course, there are always exceptions to this, but I personally wouldn't be willing to bet my daughters well-being on that. So (1) meet the guy, see if he's trustworthy, (2) kindly hint at statch rape arrest if you need to, (3) tell his coach/parents that you're worried without offending anyone, (4) have a conversation with your daughter about why you're worried. I agree with not turning the guy into a forbidden pleasure, but make sure there is a network of people looking out for your daughter. You can't trust a thirteen year-old to look out for themselves all the time.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sosurreal09*
> 
> unfortunately I feel like it is so inevitable for teens to loose it now...the pressure to is ridiculous (at 14 I had guys and friends telling me to just give it up already...) You can absolutely try and support her and encourage her to wait but mostly explain the safe ways to do it...even orally and all of that...b/c teens are doing it all the time...


It's not at all inevitable. I have two teens - 19 & 17. My 19yo? Was not sexually active until he went to college. I don't know, but believe he is now. Not at all shocking. As far as I know, of his friends in HS (guys and girls)? Maybe 2 were. One of each. My 17yo? Is not sexually active, nor are any but one of her close friends. She knows kids who are, but they're not good friends of hers. And no, I'm not deluding myself. She's very open with me, and she's told me that neither she nor her b/f are ready. And she knows that, when she is, the decision is hers and I will make sure she is protected. So no, it is not inevitable that teens - 13 or older - will have sex. Some teens will. Some won't.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Modmom15*
> 
> I would tell him, very casually, that if I ever saw, or even heard of him doing anything inappropriate with my daughter, I would have him arrested for statutory rape. I know a lot of people are being open minded and stuff, but 17 and 13 is an enormous difference - emotionally, physically, everything just doesn't match up. Of course, there are always exceptions to this, but I personally wouldn't be willing to bet my daughters well-being on that. So (1) meet the guy, see if he's trustworthy, (2) kindly hint at statch rape arrest if you need to, (3) tell his coach/parents that you're worried without offending anyone, (4) have a conversation with your daughter about why you're worried. I agree with not turning the guy into a forbidden pleasure, but make sure there is a network of people looking out for your daughter. You can't trust a thirteen year-old to look out for themselves all the time.


Its this. People who think its acceptable to use our horrific criminal justice system to control teen sexuality scare the crap out of me.

Btw- how do you KINDLY threaten the ruination or loss (considering the rates of ACTUAL RAPE of very young men as well as the rates of HIV and hepatitis in prison) of a teens life?


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## greenmm (Mar 9, 2011)

Wow people keep going back to the cell phone. I think it's a dead issue. You don't need a cell phone to sneak around or do anything you are not supposed to do. I do think blocking pics is a good idea with the recent issues of kids being exploited by sexting.

I agree with the commenter that said to apologize for snooping. It is hard to admit you've made a mistake but I think it will totally earn your daughters respect & open up the lines of communication as you care about her feelings. It also sets a good example as you wouldn't want her snooping in what you consider private. It shows that you respect her and trust her. I think the worst thing you could do is to continue to snoop in her stuff, it will only bring you farther apart & teach her not to trust you & to be more sneaky. It also shows her that you think little of her ability to make choice. She is only 13 but you should give her some credit & trust her judgement to some degree. Even if you don't trust her I would act like you did. lol. Meeting the boy is a great idea & if they aren't good for each other they will get bored of each other quickly. Forcing her to sneak around to see him only makes the relationship more exciting than it really is. Let her know you are there for her & that you maybe shouldn't have jump to conclusions the way you did. I really wish my mom had been more open with me as a teen. I had a friend's mom take me to Family Planning. Sad, when you are closer to your friend's mom than your own but I didn't feel like i could talk to her about anything like that. Luckily I did have a good head on my shoulders but it would have been nice to have that kind of relationship. Give her some ability to make choices on her own or she will find a way to whether you like it or not. I don't think there's anything wrong with the boy coming over for dinner or to watch a movie. Opening up communication now is the best thing you can do...most likely he won't be the only boy you will worry about, this is only the first & is probably very innocent. This could be a positive learning experience for both of you.


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## Modmom15 (Feb 23, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PoppyMama*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Exactly how is a 17 year old being sexually involved with a 13 year old legal here? Isn't sexual interaction between someone who can consent and someone who cannot consent considered rape? Perhaps you don't have issues with rape or molestation, but there are protections in the form of "laws" which serve to protect a party who cannot consent, does not consent, or is unable to consent. Just because you feel you have some profound wisdom which overrides penal code doesn't mean that the rest of society, or the executive branch for that matter, will accept your (I'm certain) soundly reasoned levity. I'd also love for you to define "ACTUAL RAPE." Is rape only physical act to you? Do reject all conceptions of mental manipulation regarding rape as a whole? Date rape, where a man gets a woman drunk only to take advantage of her, is not "ACTUAL RAPE"? It's these shallow minded, hypocritical, prophets of ignorance that scare me.

Also, in writing, there is this thing called tone which refers to the speakers voice. By understanding the tone (playful, sarcastic, ect.) one understands more than just the base, simplistic meaning behind the words. A modifier, such as "kindly" in this case, provides an ironic contradiction and helps create the tone of the writing. People who read regularly often find this easier to detect. Hence (now that we know what tone does), we can infer that the "kindly" refers to a lack of seriousness, or an empty threat which has no intention of being carried out, unless in the most extreme circumstances.

I am aware of the horrors of the prison system; you don't need to read Foucault to realize that something is horribly wrong there. I'm also aware that having sex with a 13 year old, who would probably die if she had to give birth, is horribly wrong. You might say in your blustery, confused defense, "But no one said they were having sex!" Exactly, I would respond. That is exactly why I said it was important to make sure that the 17 year old who has the hots for a 13 year old girl is both trustworthy and being supervised. Do you see how in every situation involving reporting the kid for statutory rape there is an "if" clause attached? Like, "if" he raped her? I did not advocate sending him to prison immediately. One would have to be quite. . . unequipped with the faculties of common sense to come to that conclusion.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

A 13 year old would probably die if she had to give birth? What?


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Modmom15*
> 
> Exactly how is a 17 year old being sexually involved with a 13 year old legal here? Isn't sexual interaction between someone who can consent and someone who cannot consent considered rape? Perhaps you don't have issues with rape or molestation, but there are protections in the form of "laws" which serve to protect a party who cannot consent, does not consent, or is unable to consent. Just because you feel you have some profound wisdom which overrides penal code doesn't mean that the rest of society, or the executive branch for that matter, will accept your (I'm certain) soundly reasoned levity. I'd also love for you to define "ACTUAL RAPE." Is rape only physical act to you? Do reject all conceptions of mental manipulation regarding rape as a whole? Date rape, where a man gets a woman drunk only to take advantage of her, is not "ACTUAL RAPE"? It's these shallow minded, hypocritical, prophets of ignorance that scare me.
> 
> ...


I don't buy for one minute the idea that a 13 yr old cannot consent - of course she can. The inability to consent is an arbitrary legal construct.

13 yr olds give birth all the time, it is not fatal.


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## whatsnextmom (Apr 2, 2010)

A 13-year-old can consent but there is a reason for statutory rape laws. 13-year-olds are impressionable. The average relationship at this age is 3 months. 3 MONTHS. They don't know squat about relationships. They are at the peak of their insecurity and some will do anything to feel loved or accepted. Their sense of mortality isn't yet developed and most still live in the "it could never happen to me" world. Did you know that 5 times as many junior high births are a result to these girls coupling with adult males? Absolutely, a 13-year-old can say "yes" but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be protected from older teens and adult males who know that an insecure girl at this age can be an easy target.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whatsnextmom*
> 
> A 13-year-old can consent but there is a reason for statutory rape laws. 13-year-olds are impressionable. The average relationship at this age is 3 months. 3 MONTHS. They don't know squat about relationships. They are at the peak of their insecurity and some will do anything to feel loved or accepted. Their sense of mortality isn't yet developed and most still live in the "it could never happen to me" world. Did you know that 5 times as many junior high births are a result to these girls coupling with adult males? Absolutely, a 13-year-old can say "yes" but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be protected from older teens and adult males who know that an insecure girl at this age can be an easy target.


5 times as many as what?

I have serious issues with those "protections", but I will admit that I do not have a solution to the problem.

I do think the suggestion to threaten someone with a false charge of statutory rape if they've been "inappropriate" with the OP's daughter is way over the top. I presume "inappropriate" did not mean sex, or that would have been stated.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Modmom-

I realize that sex between underage people with more than a 2-3 year age difference is illegal or I wouldn't be warning that there are people who find it appropriate to use that unfortunate law to control teen sexuality. I do not consider statory rape to be actual rape and I think the fact that it is prosecuted with real sex crimes cheapens and makes sex offender controls less effective. The punishment so grossly outweighs the crime that I think it should be taken completely away. My response was for the people posting that they engaged in similar relationships and don't necessarily. See the harm. I agree but there are people who think it would be appropriate to send someone to prison for hears and have them stuck in our sex offender system. Once the ball is rolling the parent cannot stop it or miigate the consequences.

I get you tone and your intent I just find them repulsive.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

First, thanks for everyone that has shared their views on this topic. It has been really interesting to read through them. I hope we can keep it respectful even though there are some pretty strong feelings.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EFmom*
> 
> My sympathies. My then 12.5 year old dd went to a summer music camp last summer and had a very similar thing happen with a 16.5 year old boy. In our house, the kids are not allowed to date at that age, period, let alone a guy who is that much older. *I don't believe for a minute that the guys just want to be friends. It's creepy*. I had just given dd a cell phone for her birthday, right before camp, and they were texting up a storm. He did want to go out with her and asked her to movies, etc., which we did not allow to happen.


When DP & I went to college we were shocked to find out that one of his younger brother's new best friends was a guy who had been in class with DP. So, this was a 19 year old hanging out with a 14 year old. We thought it was creepy and that *something* must be up. At BIL's next birthday it was just the family plus this guy and we realized he was just really, really immature. They were both into drama (acting), video games, beavis & butthead, etc... There is such a wide variety of maturity levels in this age range.

On the other side, I was a fairly mature 17 year old when I became good friends with a boy three years younger. He definately was crushing on me, but I was certainly never going to take it anywhere BUT I also got a lot out of the relationship. Not every relationship needs to be a meeting of the souls, kwim? He was fun, funny & a serious ego boost. I would hate to think his parents thought it was creepy that I was wanted to hang out with him, kwim.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kristine233*
> 
> I was 14 dating a 17 year old (and we quickly both turned 15 & 18), my parents hated the age gap, especially since he was done with high school. We didn't have cellphones, they forbid me from seeing him when I was 16. I still saw him, for 9 months I was grounded from him and still saw him almost daily. I got into far more trouble when I was sneaking around.


This touches on my concern with forbidding things. It also makes it *impossible* for the child to get help if they get in a bad situation. If they are going behind your back to do something "illegal" then they don't have an adult they can talk about it with--- because no matter what they'll get in trouble for it. I really hope that my kids feel like I am there for them no matter what, kwim.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *urbangoddess2*
> 
> 13 isn't so young and 17 isn't so old, in my opinion.


The more kids I know the more I see this to be true.

DD ended up being very young for her grade and DS is very old for his grade. I see this "problem" hitting from both directions. When we were considering what grade to put DD in I was *very* concerned with what would happen when she was a freshman in a district with higher than average retention and red-shirting. She will go to a four-year high school (9th) grade when she is only 13. Meanwhile, DS will turn 18 before he starts his senior year of high school. I felt a lot of fear about DD being exposed to those "men"--- there will be students literally 5-6 years older then her. But now I think of my DS and it just breaks my heart that there are other parents out there thinking that about *him.* Now, at 9, he still gets along well with kids younger than him. His best friend just turned 8. I can totally see him being 17-18 and having a lot of 14 year old friends. I hope that their parents are more open minded than I have been in the past


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## rainbowferry (Apr 1, 2011)

13 year olds are raging with hormones and tend to blow things out of proportion. I was a camp counselor for girls ages 12-14 and their worlds were only about boys. If you trust that your daughter is intelligent and educated about her age, boundaries, body, and sexual relationships she will back down if it ever came to her being propositioned. She needs to feel seen in the eyes of the male species right now and unfortunately if you get really upset with her her imagination will run wild and she'll want him even more. That doesn't mean they're going to have sex, not if she fully understands what that entails, and not if she has as much self confidence as a 13 year old can have. Let them talk, let her figure it out. But make sure she understands what it all might lead into. Now is the time to be reinforcing her with positive sexual education so that she can make informed choices.


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## Modmom15 (Feb 23, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eclipse*
> 
> A 13 year old would probably die if she had to give birth? What?


 Wait, it's shocking that there are health complications in teen births? A 13 year old who hasn't finished physically developing is much more likely to die than a mother who is physically mature.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> 
> I don't buy for one minute the idea that a 13 yr old cannot consent - of course she can. The inability to consent is an arbitrary legal construct.
> 
> 13 yr olds give birth all the time, it is not fatal.


 Are we going to get into a semantical debate here? Obviously, she can say physically speak the word "yes." The mistake is in believing that she is mentally capable of deciding whether she should have sex, or in believing that she is impervious to pressuring from an older party. Of course the idea of consent is a construct, but it's a social construct rather than a purely legal one. All of our society is constructed; reality is what we perceive, what meaning we give to the physical world which we interact with daily. The idea of childhood innocence, that children are different in some ways from adults, is a relatively new social construction, coming about in the last few hundred years during the Early Modern era. You would have fit in quite well with 14th century thought. I'm curious to see if you identify yourself as progressive, since you seem to be intrinsically opposed to the basis of progressivism, modern secular reason.

To think that a 13 year old is mature enough to have sex is to ignore both hard science and social science. The brain is not fully developed physically, impacting rational thought, and neither is the body, which leads to this:

"Risks for medical complications are greater for girls 14 years of age and younger, as an underdeveloped pelvis can lead to difficulties in childbirth. Obstructed labour is normally dealt with by Caesarean section in industrialized nations; however, in developing regions where medical services might be unavailable, it can lead to eclampsia, obstetric fistula,infant mortality, or maternal death.[4] For mothers in their late teens, age in itself is not a risk factor, and poor outcomes are associated more with socioeconomic factors rather than with biology.[5]"

The social sciences have also shown negative effects:

"However, in a Kaiser Family Foundation study of US teenagers, 29% of teens reported feeling pressure to have sex, 33% of sexually active teens reported "being in a relationship where they felt things were moving too fast sexually", and 24% had "done something sexual they didn't really want to do".[23]"

This is a situation where you have to trust scientific research in order to bring valid points to an argument. If you're someone who denies global warming, thinks the earth was created 6,000 years ago, or believes financial regulation is unnecessary, there isn't much anyone can do for you.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PoppyMama*
> 
> Modmom-
> 
> ...


 I wonder if you'd let your 13 year-old daughter date a 17 year-old when it really came down to it. You know, we should test this. I know it's not a perfect situation, but if you have a child with roughly the same age difference to me, I challenge you to send them over. Maybe I could show them a thing or two. Of course, that's only if they consent. You'd better hope they don't find me physically attractive!

I don't think you really understand my intent, though. The concept of statutory rape really comes down to an arbitrary set of numbers that reflect nothing but a possible baseline for hypothetical actions. In my mind, sex between a 17 year old and a 16 year old should not warrant a statutory rape charge if both of them are mature enough to handle sex. However, when someone is 4 years younger than the person they're dating, especially at a point where that four year gap makes up nearly a fourth of their life, I begin to see some major issues. You cannot scientifically claim that both of those people are at the same developmental state - mentally or physically. And there is no way you can claim it wouldn't result in an imbalance of power in the relationship, leading to possible pressuring. To claim contrary through an anecdote, saying "I've met a lot of mature 13 year-old girls ready for sex," is ridiculous. If laws were formulated to cover only the most mature or aware segments of a population, 75% of the people would be unprotected. Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself an anarcho-capitalist?

I'm sorry that I have to be the person to bring facts into this debate, but I feel like it has to be done. As a side note, my partner is nearly two years older than I am, and we met when I was 18.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Just checking in here, with a reminder to treat other posters with courtesy and respect as per our User Agreement.

I think there are a few issues here... one would be the laws regarding giving consent to have sexual intercourse, and their legitimacy (laws which my kid was breaking in our state at 16, FWIW, because her boyfriend was over 5 years older than she was, and in her specific situation I didn't have a problem with it). Is it moral for the state to regulate sexuality? How are these laws similar or dissimilar from laws forbidding sodomy or miscegenation? There's a lot of talk recently about the modern extension of childhood - in some times and countries 14 year old were considered fully adult, but today in the U.S. even 20 year olds really aren't... heck, one could make a case that college undergrads aren't fully adult even at 21 or 22. Are we that much less competent than other societies? Or were other societies inappropriately adultifying children?

Another issue is that of the increased risks associated with giving birth at very young ages, which I think we all agree about.... on the other hand, I think there's a lot of room between "more risky" and "would probably die", and I agree with the former but not the latter.

Just some of my thoughts... and yes, I am a social scientist.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Modmom15*
> 
> Wait, it's shocking that there are health complications in teen births? A 13 year old who hasn't finished physically developing is much more likely to die than a mother who is physically mature.
> 
> ...


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## greenmm (Mar 9, 2011)

As far as the Keiser Family Foundations study about peer pressure, I would take those surveys with a grain of salt because often their are not answered honestly & I don't think a lot of teens take them seriously. Also as far as actually being pressured into sex who says it's the girl being pressured, i didn't see where it said. The study I read said that more teen boys felt pressured than girls. As a teen I was a year younger than my boyfriend & pressured him, yes it's not nice but I was a hormonal teen. I'm just not sure why the boy is being turned into the big bad wolf when we don't even know he's done anything wrong. There are many many boys 17yr & over that do not feel ready to have sex yet. The one 1 dated for instance & my hubby was in his 20's. If he does wanted to date her & that's a big if maybe that is part of the reason. Maybe he feels pressured by girls his own age.

Also with all the medical advances I hardly doubt a 13yr old having a baby would kill her as someone else said. In some other cultures & states it is legal to get married at 13 & very common practice in early times. I definitely don't think 13yr olds should get married but it just shows how some think differently of maturity. She shouldn't be treated like a child because she isn't & she shouldn't be treated like an adult because she isn't that either. There needs to be a happy medium. Just because she's 13 doesn't mean she can't make some good decisions & needs to be given the chance to with guidance. The only way you can possibly know what she is thinking & feeling is by talking to her & meeting her halfway. Between the two of you you should be able to come up with a solution you both can live with. At some point she'll be moved out of the house & you want her to be able to make good decisions on her own.


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## feral007 (Apr 26, 2011)

16 yo is the age of consent for both sexes where I live. I have a younger teen girl and older teen boys. My daughter luckily thinks its weird that a lot of girls at school are only interested in older boys. I daresay she'll get over that attitude sometime soon. The boys are older and I have had conversations with them about dating younger girls as they got older. It is actually quite hard for boys when they are 'just over the line' of being an adult. Often most of their friends are younger and therefore 'children.' Eventually their friends also get older, and they meet other young adults, but initially it can be a lonely time.

I think I would be having a discussion with my daughter first if it was me. And I might even suggest to her that I'd like to sit down with them both and tell them my concerns, and hear what their views are?

Back on the first page a lot of people were saying that a 13 yo girl doesn't need a phone and that she can borrow other people's phones if she needs to. Yep, she can and will - she'll use their phones to call the boy in question as well!

Honestly I think the two things you can and should do is talk to your daughter and perhaps pray a lot as well! Even tho she may be pretty ticked at you now, I would ask if we could set up a time to air our grievances; and at that time you get to say what you think - she can't respond, just listen. And then vice versa - you cannot respond, just listen. It is so hard to just bite your tongue. But if you listen to what they have to say you don't have to agree with them, but you can often see how they feel. Making an effort to patch up your relationship now means that you will have a bigger part in her teens than you might have if you don't listen to what's important to her now. Ali


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