# All-Night Nursing Solution



## PaxMamma (Jul 22, 2005)

i want to share my story. after sharing this w/my ap group, they suggested that i post this in hopes that it will help someone else out there, about to lose their mind from not getting any sleep.. i won't include all the details, so feel free to contact me w/questions. first, let me say that i am a full-fledged attachment parent, the whole nine. anyway, i was having a horrible time w/my ds nursing every single hour from age 6 mos. to 20 mos.+. i was feeling like this nursing relationship was all one-sided and i was giving 100% of the effort while my ds reaped all of the rewards. i was losing my daytime sanity.

one nite, during the marathon, i had the idea that my ds needed to put forth some effort, so i told him if he wanted to nurse, he'd have to get out of bed and go w/me to the nursing stool. we went over to the ottoman that came w/our rocker. i sat down while he stood up and nursed at my breast. after about 3 weeks of this, he was down to only waking up twice a nite!! definitely doable fo me. so we continued this routine. after about 2-4 more weeks, he quit waking up at night all together. this was about 22 mos. i became a whole new mama! i made sure he got plenty of mama milk during the day, whenever he asked for it. so he still got lots of snuggle time.

i hope this will help someone. let me know if you have results!!


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## jennaIL (Jul 8, 2005)

Wow! Great idea! When I was going through that same thing, my husband ended up sleeping with my daughter on a mattress next to our bed. That helped me a lot, but your method seemed to make the decision to not nurse actually your sons, which is much better!!

Hugs to you!!


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

and I have to say good for you for sticking it out until there was improvement! My ds wouldn't understand that yet, but at least it gives me hope that there IS something I can do in the future to actually get some sleep!

Thanks for sharing!


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## PaxMamma (Jul 22, 2005)

i should add that i never refused to nurse him, so we always got out of bed whenever he wanted. and consistency is important! there were many times when i didn't feel like getting up, it wd. hv. been easier to just stay there and nurse, but he wd. just revert back to the old ways.

also, this was AFTER trying all the other techniques i.e. "wait till the sun comes up", stay w/daddy. none worked, he's a high-need baby and extremely strong-willed.


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## duckat (Jan 10, 2005)

THANK you for this idea! My 26 month old DS barely nurses during the day, but wants to nurse all.night.long. He is also very strong willed, and doesn't take well to distraction techniques.
I'm going to try it tonight.
One question, did you lie down for your before-bed nursing, or did he stand for that as well?


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## PaxMamma (Jul 22, 2005)

we nursed standing up right before we got in bed at night and also first thing in the morning. however, sometimes i was so tired, i'd just say, "the sun is up now, we'll nurse in bed." and this is interesting, i did continue to nurse him in bed before, during, and after his naps. he seemed to understand that naptime is different. the whole thing worked so well, if we have another, i will be doing this w/our next child as soon as he/she can walk.


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## duckat (Jan 10, 2005)

I did give your idea a try last night, but I think my ds is too old (and too verbal) to start it now. He told me that he didn't like nursing standing up, that he thought nursing in bed was better, and suggested that we needed to get in bed and go to sleep. It was going to end up a power struggle, and I just don't need any more of those with him right now. Oh well.


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## Lyci (Feb 10, 2004)

did your dc cry when you wouldn't pick them up to nurse? I could see that happening with ds. I could also see our little high-needs child standing there and nursing and then waking up more and more to play. Hmm, worth a shot, but I need to be committed to it.


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## PaxMamma (Jul 22, 2005)

my ds didn't cry. he is very stubborn, but knows i mean what i say. i ALWAYS follow through on everything. if i tell him we'll read a book when i'm done w/the dishes, that's what we do. if i say we're going to play at the park today, we do. if i say we're going to the stool, we're going to the stool. if he didn't go to the stool, we didn't nurse. he may have given a wimper or two at first, but it got to the point where i'd wake up in the middle of the night and hear him banging on the stool, waiting for me to come over.

this is something else i did which may help your dc from waking up. i cut down the nursing on each side to 10 seconds, b/c he wd. actually start falling asleep standing up. i counted to ten, then switched sides. after that , we got back in bed.

and remember, some crying/protesting is OK (i DO NOT mean CIO), especiallly if it's aimed at you keeping your sanity. our children deserve our sanity. insane mothers do no one any good.


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## Yin Yang (Jul 9, 2003)

interesting because I just had a similar idea week ago.
The difference is that my son started to sleep in his own room. We co-slept until a week ago which is almost 2 years and I had it with the nursing! I am ready to get some sleep after 2 years of constant nursing. My son was always better sleeper on his own, but we never had the money to buy him bed and I was not sure after all if he would like sleeping on his won despite my feelings that he would.
A little over week ago we put a full size mattress on the floor in his room and he had no problem sleeping there, in fact he was VERY happy about it! After about 3 nights of sleeping I was tired of walking to his room every hour to nurse him so I put him into our bed for the night and I've never seen him so angry!!!! He did not wanna be there with us for one minute! He LOVES his space! Now I am sorry I have not done it looooong time ago! All of us could have gotten much more sleep year ago.
Anyway, I was tired of going to his room every hour so I told him if he wants to nurse, he has to come to my bedroom and ask me to nurse him! That night he slept until 2:30 am, next night until 4 am.............I've never been happier!!







:LOL FInally I can get some sleep! All of us! This was the easiest and fasted nightweaning ever! And I kept trying to nightwean him since he was 12 months old!


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## Livie'smomma (Apr 7, 2005)

Congrats! That sounds like a great thing. And good for you too about sticking to what you say. I strive to do that...consistency is so important in not creating a child who learns to manipulate. So, do you sit on the ottoman while your ds stands? Did I read that right, or do you sit in the rocking chair?
Good for you, and again congrats on getting more sleep.


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## PaxMamma (Jul 22, 2005)

i sit on the ottoman while he stands. it just works b/c it's the perfect height for him to reach my breast while he stands. but anything cd. work, chair, stool, whatever, just so the height works out for your dc.


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## lavender6 (Feb 9, 2004)

Great idea! I may give this a try!


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## Erin+babyAndrew (Jan 2, 2004)

I have done this with ds for 2 nights now and it's GREAT!! The first night he was mad that he had to stand up to nurse, but he nursed and screamed in anger when we went back to bed, but only for about 10 seconds then he passed out again with a full tummy. the second time that night he nursed standing and then when he started trying to lay in my arms i unlatched him and layed him back down in bed. He didn't make a peep or even move, he just went right back to sleep with no complaints.
the second night he woke to nurse after about an hour of sleep and when i got him up to walk to the stool he threw a fit so I told him I was going to the bathroom and we'd try again when I got back. He screamed and was quite mad that he was going to have to stand again to nurse. I felt awful that he was crying but by the time i had finished in that bathroom (about 20 seconds later) he was sleeping soundly again. He nursed twice last night and slept really well. This is a miracle for him and for me. He normally nurses 8-12 times a night and likes to stay latched on all night. It's really hard to get a good sleep when he won't let me alone to sleep kwim?
I was desperate for a night time solution that didn't involve CIO and am SO SO SO thankful I found your post!! We are expecting #2 in a few months and i really am going to appreciate a bit of a break from the nightime routine ds had established. He seems to be doing well with better sleep too!


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## karlin (Apr 8, 2004)

I'd love to try this, but I'm almost certain my (almost) 23 month old DS would just lay in bed whining "mama nurse" and refuse to get up to nurse. Any tips?


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## Lyci (Feb 10, 2004)

I thought our ds would cry or at least whine a little bit. Ah, the power and secuction of mama milk. He too crawls off our bed and heads over the ottoman and waits for me. Ds sometimes has to wake me and say, "Honey, he is waking for you". There is ds, half asleep, leaning on the ottoman saying "nee" "nee" and signing nurse. (It broke my heart the first time then I realized he's cool with this). So he stands there and nurse and when he starts to lean I say, "ok, finish up and we'll get back into bed and lay with Snuggle Bear (his new favorite lovey). Sometimes he wants to nurse more and I let him. I don't let it go past 10 minutes either, then he wakes up too much. After he is done we get back into bed and usually takes him a couple minutes to settle down and fall asleep. He sometimes asks to nurse again and I ask if he wants to get up. "No" he says. Then I give him a kiss and say goodnight and roll over, then he goes to sleep. Yahoo!!! This is a child that was recently nursing 4-5 times a night. He was been up 2 times in the last three nights and sleeping more soundly. Thank you, thank you, thank you for this idea. I am telling all our sleep deprived friends about it.


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## wasatchmom (Jan 20, 2004)

did all of you get out of bed for night nursings to begin with? i have always been a nurse-in-bed kind of mom. i tried the standing nursing last night and it got me thinking what the original pattern was for y'all.


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## emmabella (Feb 14, 2005)

great idea dkeoshian! i'll keep this filed in my brain for when DS is older


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## PaxMamma (Jul 22, 2005)

i'm so glad this is working for many of you, that was my hope, just to spread the sleep. here is a suggestion for those of you having difficulty or are leary about trying this at night. start nursing at the stool while your dc nurses during the day. not all the time, just introduce it a few times and it won't seem so foreign at night. they'll be less grumpy and might actually like it during the day. my ds was a high-need baby and often nursed standing on his head, anyway. i got the strangest looks when people saw me sitting down and realized he was nursing while crawling all over me, often with his legs on my shoulders.

i think co-sleeping and nursing in bed are perfect ideas, especially for young children. but two-year olds are old enough to have boundaries and understand that relationships go both ways.

let me know if you have more ???s


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Thanks for posting this! We nightweaned a couple weeks ago and since then I have been firm about no nursing in bed, but he has woken a couple times asking for mimi and it feels so bad to refuse him. Sometimes he settles right back down to sleep, but other times he doesn't. I think I will try your method as a compromise.

The only downside is I'm not sure he will happily go right back to bed afterwards. I think he might decide it's playtime. We have been having that problem lately with some of his nightwakings--even if he doesn't demand nrusing, he wants to get out of bed and go outside to play! At 2 am!


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## lavender6 (Feb 9, 2004)

For those of you who do this, how light/dark is it in your bedroom? We've made our room really dark for (hopefully) better, longer sleep, so it's pretty much like a black hole in there at night. Do you use a nightlight if you're doing this technique, rely on whatever light's there naturally, or just lead your baby by the hand over to the stool? The reason I'm asking is because it seems to me like it would be more effective if the child had to make the decision to stand up and walk (we're hoping he'll decide he'd rather sleep, right?







), rather than take an offered hand and be guided--that's part of the effectiveness of this approach, right? Thanks.


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## Lyci (Feb 10, 2004)

We've always used a nightlight since ds was born. Made those midnight diaper changes so much easier and less disruptive. Ds gets off the bed himseld (with Cuddle Bear of course) and waits for me at the ottoman. He waits very patiently too, but maybe he is sleeping standing up. Who knows. So far, so good. Only 2 night wakings again last night and boy is he a happier kid. He was a happy baby during the day, now he's a nut!


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## PaxMamma (Jul 22, 2005)

our room isn't that dark, i wish it was! so ds wd. walk to the ottoman after the first few times of being led there. here's a suggestion: get a nite lite w/a motion sensor. we have one in our bathroom. if you could put it somewhere that it wd. come on as soon as he got out of bed, that may help. also, can you move the stool/ottoman close to the bed?


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## wasatchmom (Jan 20, 2004)

i tried this method for three nights and in exhaustion i gave up last night. dd woke up every couple hours (she's 18 months) by the third night where as she only did it 3 times all night on the first night. WWYD?


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## PaxMamma (Jul 22, 2005)

like i said, it took about 3-4 weeks before i saw improvement. and there were many, many times i DID NOT want to get out of bed anymore. but w/all gentle methods, it takes time.


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## wasatchmom (Jan 20, 2004)

oh wow. i should have gone back and read the original post again. i kept thinking everyone was having immediate results and when dd did not respond, i just thought she wasn't ready for it. how did you do it that long and keep your sanity? i was totally falling asleep during the day. and last night i slept 11 hours playing catch up (of course bed-nursing the whole time). maybe i'll get my courage to try it again. dh would sure love me for it. he was getting excited for a few days there at the thought of not having a latched baby on me all night!


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## PaxMamma (Jul 22, 2005)

my ds was waking 10-12 times a nite, so i figured it couldn't get worse. my sanity was already gone, so i just kept plugging away. and remember, w/kids, NOTHING lasts forever.


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## lunamomma (Mar 10, 2004)

ds#1 and ds#2 both sleep in our room on a mattress next to us. Ds #1 weaned himself at 3.5 years and ds#2 is a different story- he wakes and nurses every 2 hours- dh and are arguing all the time, I am extremely impatient and want to scream every morning- I will say that ds#2 is younger he is only 18 months, but again understands qand comprehends very well. I will try it tonight! Ds#2 is also very stubborn but I am not as consistent mostly because of my personality, but I'm working on it! Thanks for this great thread- I'm going to pass it on to dh because he is exhausted at work because ds #2 screams at the top of his lungs and wakes everyone up at least 2 or 3 times per night.

I hope this is the answer to my prayers :LOL


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## Bennifer (Jul 26, 2005)

this sounds like something i read about in the NCSS


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## Lyci (Feb 10, 2004)

We have been doing this for about 10 days now and ds is now waking once a night! But I do have to mention that he is no longer interested in nursing to sleep because of this. Not a huge deal, we just have to modify our nighttime routine. He is no where near weaning and loves to "nurse nurse" all day long. He especially loves this first morning nurse. He takes his time and starts his day with what I call "mama go juice".


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## PaxMamma (Jul 22, 2005)

i'm really glad this is helping so many. keep sharing your successes! and failures, for that matter.


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## Erin+babyAndrew (Jan 2, 2004)

bump for a great thread that helped our family so much! thank you OP!


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## StrawberryFields (Apr 6, 2005)

Great thread! So glad that it was bumped. Ds is only 13 months so not ready for nightweaning but I am going to tuck this gem away for when he is older!


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## PaxMamma (Jul 22, 2005)

i was shocked to see this old post come back. i was actually thinking about reposting as some moms have been asking about nightweaning again. so glad it's helped.


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## emikey (Dec 6, 2004)

I am glad to see this post too, because my ds (12 mos) is waking every hour to hour-and-a-half to nurse, and barely nursing during the day. Do you think this would work on a 1 yr old?


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## aja-belly (Oct 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *emikey* 
I am glad to see this post too, because my ds (12 mos) is waking every hour to hour-and-a-half to nurse, and barely nursing during the day. Do you think this would work on a 1 yr old?

it sounds like he is reverse cycling. if he barely nurses during the day, then he NEEDS to nurse alot at night. i would work on increasing the daytime nursing and definately NOT try to decrease his night nursing.


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## emikey (Dec 6, 2004)

Yes, except that I WOH so what's happening during the day is that he's not taking EBM. Not so much I can do about that; I encourage my husband to offer as much as possible. When I'm home he nurses more (though not lots).


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## aja-belly (Oct 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *emikey* 
Yes, except that I WOH so what's happening during the day is that he's not taking EBM. Not so much I can do about that; I encourage my husband to offer as much as possible. When I'm home he nurses more (though not lots).

that definately makes sense. it's very common for an infant to reverse cycle when the boob isn't available during the day. have you checked out the wohm forum? i'm sure you could dig up many threads about it. since breastfeeding is not an option during the day it's even more important at night - especially for a babe so young.


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## emikey (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks - I keep forgetting about that thread. Will check it out. But 8x a night is driving me insane, and I am on break right now. When the semester starts in 2 weeks (I teach) I might go mad.


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## Isamama (May 2, 2006)

Nevermind, Was too sleep deprived to think well.


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## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

My personal opinion, this thread makes me kind of sad. I am sure mommas do what they have to to stay sane, but the idea of making my baby to stand to nurse just strikes a wrong chord with me. I WOH and he still wakes up every 2 hours at night. I guess I just assume if he is asking for it, he needs it.
Gossamer


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## eroslovesagape (Aug 8, 2005)

What a fantastic thread. I'm not sure I'll use this method, but I have decided that it's time my dd went longer than an hour or two between nightime feedings and that a bit more sleep is in order. I just re-read an article I'd gotten last year from someone here: http://www.drjaygordon.com/ap/flower.htm and this is the method I'm using with success.

I started decreasing nighttime nursing weeks ago by nursing her almost to sleep, then saying, "all done milk, no more milk" while removing the nipple, still cuddling her. She cried the first time, shocked and angry but definitely not scared! I comforted her until she slept, maybe 5-10 min. Through the night I nursed when she woke but stopped when she started falling asleep. By the second night, she didn't even fuss when I removed the nip, just sighed and went back to sleep. And woke HALF as often (which had been 5-10x/night). The third night she woke less, again didn't resist when I pulled the nip and told her 'all done milk.' Even better the 4th night. Now she occasionally wakes 1x/night. BTW I did make a point of increasing daytime nursings, even laying down w/her to have less distracted and more productive sessions.

Just wanted to add to the possible tools/methods to use, maybe it'll work for someone else, too!

Gossamer, I understand where you're coming from. For me, though, I finally realized that there is no longer a true need (physically, psychologically or emotionally) for her to wake that often. At this point, it's simply habit. A habit I fully and happily participated in fostering, I might add. However, I must, througout my childrens' lives, make thoughtful decisions about what is right for them and us. It's my right and responsibility to balance wants and needs for all family members (and of course she's been the Queen of the Universe until now). I assume that my children usually know and can express what they _want_, often can express what they _need_; but just because children ask does not mean they _need_ whatever they're asking for (infants around a year and younger I do believe truly need 99% of what they ask for!) It is up to me & DH to detect unwanted/unhealthy habits and to address them by gentle and firm guidance.

I think this thread and the incredibly loving posts written by so many mamas is far from sad - it's inspiring! The parents posting clearly love their babies to bits and have given incredible amounts of themselves during those needy infant stages. Now they're lovingly, thoughtfully and gently asserting themselves as parents who know the time has come for them to begin the ever-increasing process of guiding their child. We've cared for our babies with no boundaries, and are now honoring our babies' development (as well as our own self-care needs) by gently teaching them appropriate boundaries, process that will repeat in different ways through all the parenting years. For me, it's also the boundary between martyr and mother.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

I'd like to simply ask anyone who is thinking of making a nursling stand to nurse---is this how YOU would want to be treated if _you_ were the child?

Quote:

We've cared for our babies with no boundaries, and are now honoring our babies' development (as well as our own self-care needs) by gently teaching them appropriate boundaries, process that will repeat in different ways through all the parenting years.
But I'm not seeing that in this thread. How is _making_ someone do something "gently teaching"? How is making a child get out of bed and stand up to nurse "honoring" their development? Because they _can_ stand? I don't understand this reasoning. Of course you can nurse and be comforted---but I'm going to make it inconvenient and well, uncomfortable? There is no magic solution in meeting your child's needs at night. It's often just flat out difficult. Making a child stand up, to me, is personally unacceptable because I wouldn't want to be treated like that---and as an adult, I would at least have the capacity to understand the motivation behind the action---a small child wouldn't









I'm not trying to disrespect a mother who thinks this is a fine way to meet HER nighttime needs. Who am I to argue what the mother thinks is best for her? But can we be intellectually honest enough to say, hey, this isn't the kindest way _for the child_?

Quote:

*Once we become parents it is easy to blame ourselves when our children's behavior seems out of control. The pervasive idea that we should be able to control sleep habits leads us too quickly to call night waking a "sleep disorder" and to wonder what we are doing wrong to cause it. Research gives no indication that anything parents do causes night waking. Babies whose cries are responded to rapidly are not more prone to it. Assuming that there is some method out there to treat sleep "disorders" undermines a parent's confidence. Despite the notion that "healthy, normal" babies sleep through the night, surveys of parents show that most babies do not sleep through the night, at least until all their teeth are in.

While waiting for our children to develop physically and emotionally to the point where they can realistically soothe themsleves to sleep, we need to work on our own development toward tolerance, patience, and acceptance of those aspects of parenting that are beyond our control. What remains in our control is the ability to continue to care for our children even though they are keeping us awake at night; to continue to hold to our own integrity as feeling people.

To embrace a philosophy that takes into account the individual needs of each child is not to ignore the unfortunate reality that we need sleep. We need to nurture ourselves in this process of raising children. The key to tolerance, and the natural passge through the nightwaking years, is to observe, accept, and work with your child's own inner rhythms and timetables, which can lead to the understanding that nurturing your child and nurturing yourself are not mutually exclusive enterprises.

'Natural Family Living' by Peggy O'Mara*


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## vanessab23 (Nov 9, 2005)

I was wondering how long it would take before someone had a problem with this thread!









Thanks to the OP, glad it worked for you guys! Creative idea


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## 425lisamarie (Mar 4, 2005)

I'm about to be in tears. DS is not nursing anymore, and it's still a sad things sometimes! he's a little over 2.5....I'm just thinking of his messy little blonde hair and cute cheeks while his head bobs while trying to stand to nurse.

It's things like this that really makes my sad, I would have never made DS get out of bed and stand up half asleep. That would just be torture. I get up frequently at night, I wouldn't expect to be ignored by DH if I turn to snuggle with him and he says "yeah but you have to stand up."

wether it works or not, it's because a toddler will turn to anything desparate if it lets them nurse....and I WOULD assume that after a while your child wouldn't want to stand up and nurse at night. Kids need rest, your not resting if you're out of bed standing up at 3 am.

Nursing is security, and a lot more, but making a child stand up in the middle of the night to do something they NEED, is NOT security!!


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

I really like to hold hands when I walk with my dh (even after all these years







), and I'm sure at this point, dh probably thinks it's a habit on my part. I guess it is, but it's still important _to me_. What if dh decided that I *should* be over hand-holding by now, and he decided from now on, he would definitely still hold my hand, but only if he held it up in the air while we walked?

It's not just the act of hand-holding, it's the security, the comfort and closeness---the connection---that it represents. There are numerous different gentle, loving ways to encourage toddlers to nurse less. This *solution* just is not one of them, IMO.

YMMV


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## aja-belly (Oct 7, 2004)

i feel alot better about this thread ater reading the last few responses. thank you mamas.


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