# "Flavoring" nipples to night wean??



## kittyryba (Mar 17, 2007)

I've been dreading night weaning my son for a long time. I go from thinking that I can handle it because of how much he loves it (and seems to need it), to actually crying, in pain, and wanting to scream with frustration while going into hours of nursing marathons because he won't fall asleep and stay asleep without my nipple in his mouth.
We are both utterly sleep deprived and I just cant do it anymore.
He is now almost 17 months, and is almost done getting his first set of molars, so when the last is through, we're going to attempt to night wean.
His pediatrician recommends some loving, comforting holding, rocking, and cuddling while just not giving in to him at night, but I foresee a DREADFUL situation with that. He is VERY headstrong, and will not give in easily. We co-sleep, so if he doesn't get what he wants he pinches and pulls at my skin, rolls over me, head butts in the throws of a tantrum and basically can beat me up- he's a big, thick guy.
One strategy I've heard of is to taint the flavor of your nipples with something like lemon juice, vinegar or garlic oil, so they don't want to nurse. I would feel sad to do this, but it seems like it might work better for my son














than just saying "No, milkies need to sleep now."
Does anyone have any experience with this at all?


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## Shanny2032 (Aug 10, 2009)

I have never heard of this. But I am about to go down this road with my 9.5 month old because I took paci away a few weeks ago and have become a human paci now. I foresee my life being like yours by the time she is your sons age and want to try and avoid it if I can. I nursed her to sleep tonight, she slept less than 1/2 an hour and when I went in and just tried to settle her or rock her she went crazy. I didn't have the patience I'll admit to give in and lay there again or to try anything else for that matter so I put her in her car seat swing which she takes a lot of her naps in. She cried for a few minutes and now I feel awful. I am going to try the pantley (I think that is right) pull off method from No Cry Sleep solution, have you tried that? It seems like a lot of work, but this isn't working for us so I just need to start it and hope for quick success. I want her to nurse at night, just not ALL night.


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## KristaDJ (May 30, 2009)

I used bitter nail polish with my first baby. He nursed through it and it consequently got in his mouth and then on mine (kissing him) and on our hands and EVERYTHING tasted like earwax all the time. I stopped it and tried again a couple of months later and he latched on once and then didn't really ever try again. He was 2.5, I've regretted it ever since









That's my experience with tainting the flavor, sorry I'm not more help. It did _work_, I just wouldn't do it again unless I really HAD to wean. My 31mo still night nurses along with my 12mo.
ETA: I have gotten my toddler to go to sleep without the boob though. I nurse her but I tell her it's just for a little bit and then I take it away and hold her while she goes to sleep. Maybe if you could get him to do that (still not easy) you would feel better without completely taking away his night nursings, just a thought


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## kittyryba (Mar 17, 2007)

Quote:

I am going to try the pantley (I think that is right) pull off method from No Cry Sleep solution, have you tried that?
Yes, I have tried that book. But he was only about your daugter's age at the time, and it just didn't work for us. I also probably could have been more consistent, but I chose to take a breather for both of our sanity and try again later. I guess now would be "later". She has different sections for different ages, so I think her advice for his age now might be a bit different, so I'll check that out too.

Good luck with your attempts!









KristaDJ- As sleep-deprived mommy's in a world of frustration, sometimes we look back on choices we've made at those times and don't think they're so cool. But in the moment/day/month, it may be what works. Thanks for sharing your experience. I also think that my son might just deal with the "new" taste instead of it turning him off.
I have tried to hold him after letting him nurse a little, and at rare times that has worked, but for 99% of the time, he throws a MAJOR temper tantrum, and gets himself so worked up that he's sweating through his clothes, and choking on his saliva. And if I'm holding him, he's going back and forth between pushing me away and squeezing the hell out of my boobs to try to get at them. He's just a super-duper boob man.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

I have never heard of putting a foul tasting substance on your nipples. I just don't see how that is conducive in any way at all. I think it would be a huge betrayal to the child-something that he depends on and uses for comfort, food, and sleeping and suddenly one day it tastes horrible?

I do understand the sleep deprivation-I slept on the couch last night with a teething 16 mo old who woke every hour or so screaming and wanting to nurse.

I am simply not a fan of quick methods that punish the child for a basic need to be close to his mother. Nightweaning can be accomplished in much more gentle ways that are more easily explained to the child.


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## kittyryba (Mar 17, 2007)

Quote:

I think it would be a huge betrayal to the child-something that he depends on and uses for comfort, food, and sleeping and suddenly one day it tastes horrible?
That is where I'm having difficulty. I think the lure to this is that it seems like it would work out more smoothly if the child chose not to nurse, saving perhaps the many nights of endless meltdowns by just saying "no milkies,......". I see that as a betrayal as well. But perhaps your voice is what I need to hear to realize this is not for us.

Quote:

Nightweaning can be accomplished in much more gentle ways that are more easily explained to the child.
Please do tell!!!


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## almadianna (Jul 22, 2006)

Just a gentle reminder that MDC is a forum dedicated to natural and gentle living.

From the UA

Quote:

Mothering.com is the website of natural family living and advocates natural solutions to parenting challenges. We host discussion of nighttime parenting, loving discipline, *gentle weaning,* natural birth, homebirth, successful breastfeeding, alternative and complementary home remedies, informed consent and many other topics from a natural point of view. We are not interested, however, in hosting discussions on the merits of crying it out, harsh sleep training, physical punishment, formula feeding, elective cesarean section, routine infant medical circumcision, or mandatory vaccinations.
Putting something on your nipples so that your child will wean is not gentle.

While I can understand the frustration as I have been being used for comfort for almost 3 years now, there are more gentle ways of night weaning a child. It is also important to make sure that our child is ready to be nightweaned. Some are not until much older than we would like them to be.

Regarding being a "human pacifier". I do not understand how it is bad for our children to need us for comfort. That is after all, our job.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

Gentle weaning does take time and consistency. There are threads dedicated to Jay Gordon'd method and the Pantley Pull Off method.

Once my son's teeth came in I simply couldn not continue to let him nurse while sleeping-he began to bite down in his sleep. OUCH. So, I use a pacifier to help him with his strong desire to suck.

That said, my son is simply not ready for night weaning at this point. To ensure I get some uninterrupted sleep I go to bed at around 10 pm. Hubby handles any wakings up until midnight with holding and soothing. Then, whenever he wakes after midnight I nurse and he sleeps next to me. Once he nurses, I give him his paci and he goes to sleep. Even when he wakes multiple times, I always offer the breast before the paci. My goal at this point is to not wean to a paci, but to simply protect my breasts.

Once my son is a bit more verbal and understands more, we will begin to talk about nightweaning with him-no nursing until the sun comes up.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

It might just be an issue of timing. I thought about night weaning at 18 months, but then thought no WAY could dd handle it because such a high percentage of her diet was bm at that time and it was so important to her. I tried at 24 months and it was EASY. Like ridiculously easy. So easy I wish I would have tried at 20 or 22 months. I told her, "Not until morning" and she went back to sleep. That happened twice the first night and once the second night. After the second night, she was STTN. No tears or anything.

So I would say maybe just wait a little while. It might not take very long at all before he'll be able to handle it without it being a big trauma.


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## kittyryba (Mar 17, 2007)

I never intend to do anything that is not gentle to my child, which is why I asked about this before going any further. I'm sorry if I stepped over the boundaries.
My sleep deprivation is so bad some times that I'm afraid to drive with my son in the car. I am short-tempered, have no attention span and am extremely forgetful. In the midst of these sleepless nights I find myself resenting him and that's the LAST thing I want to feel. Day times are completely different. He's so easy to please, and happy. At night he's just a different baby. He's almost impossible to console, physically overpowering and cries like he's in pain. That's what he'll do, until he passes out from exhaustion, if I try to keep my breast from him. That's with loving touching/holding/rocking, and verbally consoling him. That exhibiting behavior to me does not seem gentle.

Quote:

So I would say maybe just wait a little while. It might not take very long at all before he'll be able to handle it without it being a big trauma.
That may be the best thing for us right now. If it worked for you, why not for me??

betsyj- I'm not familiar with Jay Gordon's method, so I'll check into that. I do have Elizabeth Pantley's book, and when I tried it out when he was about 10 mos, it wasn't working for us. I'm going to read up tonight on what to do for older babies. Unfortunately, my son never took a paci. He wanted the real thing, or nothing at all. He never took a bottle either. I went back to work after maternity leave and he ended up screaming and crying all day, while he was with my husband, and maybe only took a bottle 3 times in 3 weeks. I had to leave work or bring him to work with me- it was insane.

thanks everyone for your input http://www.mothering.com/discussions...lies/thumb.gif


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## katiesk (Nov 6, 2007)

i would be afraid that my baby would be so surprised that she would wake up even more at the strange tasting nipples. i agree that it is not a very gentle way to night wean. but i understand if you feel like you must night wean. i think what it comes down to is - there is no easy, painless way to do it, but finding the most loving, gentle, comforting way for baby is the ideal. it might be excrutiating for you for a couple of days...weeks...? but potentially worth it if you feel like you really can't keep up night nursing.

i have seen threads about jay gordons night weaning process...and i definitely would not want to try it myself! it sounds hard, but people say it is effective, so thats something.

good luck.


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## Shanny2032 (Aug 10, 2009)

[/QUOTE]Regarding being a "human pacifier". I do not understand how it is bad for our children to need us for comfort. That is after all, our job.[/QUOTE]

I just wanted to answer this for me personally: it is not bad for her to want it. It is bad for us however in that she nurses until she throws up and I am having pain because of extreme vaginal dryness when she nurses non stop. I am just looking for a solution that works for both of us, does not result in her crying, vomiting, or me in pain.


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## To-Fu (May 23, 2007)

I also think that nipple flavoring sounds very un-gentle. Here are some kinder alternatives:

http://kellymom.com/bf/weaning/weani...l#nightweaning

http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp

Best of luck! I know it must be rough.


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## kittyryba (Mar 17, 2007)

Thanks for those links and all your input.
My cloudy mind was hoping for a quicker/painless solution to this, but as I had thought, there really is none.
I think I'll try to incorporate a few different ideas and see how that works for us.... (not nipple flavoring).


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## editornj (Jan 4, 2008)

OP, your 17-mo-old sounds like my child was. He was horrible at night, and during the day people would tell me I was crazy: He's the sweetest thing, he doesn't know how to do anything but smile.

And I was thinking that I just wanted to scream, or throw something, or pack my bags and leave.

Sounds like the nipple tainting question has been answered.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katiesk* 
i have seen threads about jay gordons night weaning process...and i definitely would not want to try it myself! it sounds hard, but people say it is effective, so thats something.

We made a 10-day plan based off of Dr. Gordon's 10 Nights, but his exact plan did not feel right to me. Plus, I spent a week or two prior doing something new (prior to that I had been a 24-hour diner with no limits). I was doing the Pantley Pull Off, and really making an effort to get him back to sleep without nursing. Of course, it didn't work, but I thought it was a good building block for our modified 10 Nights.

So the 10 Nights worked. My son slept 8.5 hours straight and he had never done that before. Then molars came, then I got pregnant, and it's never been the same.

I think you can read your child and come up with a plan that suits your family.







Good luck to you.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kittyryba* 
Thanks for those links and all your input.
My cloudy mind was hoping for a quicker/painless solution to this, but as I had thought, there really is none.
I think I'll try to incorporate a few different ideas and see how that works for us.... (not nipple flavoring).



















I would be really sad to have something so important and comforting to the baby (and for me, too) be suddenly and inexplicably awful and no longer available. I think it would be really hard on both mother and baby, quite honestly. Even if temporarily it had the desired effect, I know I would feel pretty bad to have created a negative association with nursing. I'm happy to read you're considering a different approach. That's great news









We all know how hard it can be some days/nights, _especially_ when we're sleep deprived. When I'm feeling most stressed out, I try to imagine that I'm the baby/child and think about things from that perspective. I hope things start feeling more manageable asap







Keep us posted---we're pulling for you!


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

I remember my mother doing this to my brother. He totally knew she was full of it when she feigned confusion as to why it tasted different. I would be concerned about trust within the relationship.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Is your husband home at night?

Night weaning at our house has always been accomplished by dh taking over with putting the kids to bed.


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## Jackies Ladybug (Jun 19, 2008)

i am wondering if he is overtired? what are his sleep patterns like? you say he is a completely different baby during the day, that is a sign that he may be building a sleep deficit during the day which would make it harder for him to control himself at night.
maybe if you can get him to take longer naps or have a earlier bed time it could help with his night time mood.
this topic is always hard though.
i agree too that it may just be too early for him to night wean, maybe your bed time could be bumped up a bit earlier too so you have a better chance of getting some sleep.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

There's an old Elvis song called "Devil in Disguise" and dh and I used to say it was ds1's song. He was such a perfect angel baby during the day, and a total nightmare at night. I would start getting a feeling of dread when it started getting dark. He woke every two hours, and nothing other than nursing would get him back to sleep. I was a zombie. We tried nightweaning at 1.5yo but he just fell apart, so I sucked it up for another 6 months. We tried again at 2yo and it was a very smooth transition.

I have never even heard of nipple flavoring before this thread (at least not in relation to babies







), but it sounds like a horrible idea. It will end, I promise.


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