# Do You Offer a Standard Dinner Alternate? (e.g. PB Sandwich)



## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

So, I've read in a few books that some parents always give their kids an option of making a PB&J sandwich or some such thing if they don't like dinner.

Do you do this?

Do you put a limit on the number of times they can opt-out? (Like two times per week?)


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## Benji'sMom (Sep 14, 2004)

I do. I don't really have a limit as to how often but I guess it just depends what he's been eating that day. I'm not going to make him 10 pb&j in one day, he sometimes just has to eat what's offered to him. It's a case by case basis.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I will make anything that is super easy. A sandwich, cereal, leftovers, etc. I won't make another meal.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I don't have one standard, but if she doesn't like dinner she is welcome to something else simple (she doesn't like pb&j....) It could be a yogurt or cream cheese on bread or a bagel or any number of simple things - whatever we have that she's interested in.

No limit.

-Angela


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## NaomiMcC (Mar 22, 2007)

Nope. Don't like it...don't eat it. But there's nothing but water until the next meal. The rule is "i'm not a restaurant."


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

I generally make a meal that I know will have at least one element everyone will enjoy. Right now, dd is very sensitive to anything "spicy" in the least, so for her I would offer an alternative to the main dish if I made something I knew she would not find palatable. But in general, I guess this hasn't been enough of an issue for us to have a standard solution.


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## VikingKvinna (Dec 31, 2003)

My DS is pretty skinny, and pretty picky, so yeah, i'll generally offer an alternative. I try to plan meals that have something for everyone, like ledzepplon -- if we're having chicken cacciatore, DS can have plain spaghetti with sauce, or if we're having a spicy curry with rice, he can have rice with butter. If it's something altogether too wild-n-crazy for him, I generally plan to serve him the pb&j or grilled cheese or quesadillas or scrambled egg or something similar that's easy to fix. But i don't keep making meal after meal -- if he doesn't like the first or second choice, he's out of luck.

Funny thing about my DS -- he loves "snacks." So often if he doesn't like a meal as a meal, he'll eat it for a "game snack" (he plays board games with DP after dinner/before bed) later on. Same with lunch -- he sometimes won't eat a pb&j for lunch, but will eat it if I cut it up and put it in a divided container and call it a "lunch snack."







I go with it! Motherhood's all about marketing, after all.


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## hippiewitchie (Oct 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VikingKvinna* 
Motherhood's all about marketing, after all.

















Love that!

My rule is they are served what ever is for dinner and they have to at least try it. If it is something I know they really don't like I may offer an alternative (ds1 hates carrots cooked so I may offer him a handful of raw). If it's the main dish and they TRUELY dislike it they can pick another leftover from the fridge or have cereal. Sometimes it's hard to tell if they really don't like it or if they just want cereal or pb&j.


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## Indigo73 (Aug 2, 2002)

After having the type of parents that made me sit at the table until everything was done (slept over liver more than once), I am willing to let him choose a simple alternative. But he has to try every thing, every time.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Those of you that insist they sample, HOW do you do it? Or do you have kids who are more naturally compliant than mine?
















-Angela


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## hempmama (Dec 16, 2004)

Yes, we offer peanut butter sandwich(no jelly) or banana. They have to make it themselves, and clean up afterwards.

I do insist they sample, and don't have any special tricks. That's just the way it's always been. I guess sometimes I tell them what good things the food could do for their bodies, specifically (they're pretty into anatomy and human biology), and also they've often helped prepare the food, which generally makes them more willing to sample it.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Yeah, I can see some kids just doing it... mine, not so much...









And I'm not about to hold her down and put a bite in her mouth. Short of that- if she doesn't want to do it, it's not happening.

-Angela


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## Indigo73 (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hempmama* 
they've often helped prepare the food, which generally makes them more willing to sample it.

Very true. We are growing some veggies this year. Hopeful that he'll remember his love of carrots, raw green beans and brocoli.







:


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Those of you that insist they sample, HOW do you do it? Or do you have kids who are more naturally compliant than mine?
















-Angela

We do the sampling thing now... basically they cannot have any alternatives until they eat at least two spoonfulls/forkfulls of whatever. We're strict about that. No exceptions. It leads to compliance 99% of the time.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

I have lived by the rule that I am not a short order cook but I also feel its my "job" to serve healthy meals on a regular basis and its my child's "job" to eat or not as he sees fit.

When he was small I made sure to have at least 2 thing I knew he would eat. Now that he is 6 he is welcome to make himself something else if he doesn't like the meal. It's not standard. We have no "off limit" foods in the house so pretty much anything we have is a good alternative to dinner.

In regards to the one bite/trying everything? The focus on the meals are not the food. The food is secondary. Meal times are about family, conversation and catching up. I find that w/o the bribing/cajoling/nudging my son will pretty much try anything when he sees us enjoying it.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *umsami* 
We do the sampling thing now... basically they cannot have any alternatives until they eat at least two spoonfulls/forkfulls of whatever. We're strict about that. No exceptions. It leads to compliance 99% of the time.

My kid just wouldn't eat.... AND we'd have a miserable child who was hungry and suffering from low blood sugar.









Like I say, I've known kids that would work with. Mine? Not so much.

-Angela


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## tinuviel_k (Apr 29, 2004)

No, I don't offer anything else. I always make a variety of food, so I know there will be something there that she can eat. If she doesn't like the salmon then she can have more quinoa. If the mashed potatoes are not to her liking there is plenty of chicken and green beans.
If I intentionally make a dish that I know she hates (like spicy thai food) then I always make her something separate that I know she will enjoy. Other than that the whole family eats what has been served for dinner, or they can have a small snack a couple hours later.


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## elizaveta (Jul 1, 2005)

I normally try to make a meal with at least some elements that everyone will enjoy. If I am craving spicy food, which no one else in my household likes, then I will make it for myself and serve them something separate. If dd doesn't like what I've made, which she usually will at least eat the vegetables, then I let her have a yogurt or I'll make her an egg or she can have string cheese, cut up fruit - whatever is handy and easy.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Mine have always been able to opt out of any food or meal. In short, no one ever is required to eat anything they don't want to. Ever.









There's cereal, fruit, veggies, crackers, toast, sandwich, cheese, yogurt, or etc.

I've always tried to include something that everyone likes in a meal, but sometimes it doesn't work or someone just feels like something else.


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## kjbrown92 (Dec 13, 2007)

No alternatives. Short of an intolerance (of which there are many in my family), you have to try everything (small bite). If you don't like it, eat more of part of the meal that you DO like. I never serve a meal where there is nothing that they like. For instance if I do salmon (DD#1 can't stand it), I also serve rice pilaf (which she loves) and cooked carrots (she loves) and sauteed spinach (she doesn't love). There's usually some carrot and celery sticks to munch on if they get hungry while I'm making dinner. And we recite the stories about how mom thought she didn't like cheese until she was a grown-up and got smarter about trying things, and how daddy didn't think he liked beets until he had some fresh out of Grandpa's garden, and now he can't get enough of them.

Variety
Dippies
same rules for everybody (even daddy has to eat the brussel sprouts)

K


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

We don't have a standard, but generally DS1 will ask for a grilled cheese sandwich if he doesn't like what I'm making, and that's fine with me.


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## kalisis (Jan 10, 2005)

I am willing to make something else simple, pb&j, cream cheese and honey, mac with butter, a fried egg.

I don't cook certain things b/c I don't like them, so why should my kids be forced to eat something they don't like?

DS is completely picky, he'd eat pasta and butter every meal, every day. I try to offer other alternatives first, but sometimes he surprises me and eats huge servings of whatever I've made.

DD eats anything I put in front of her. Even the spicy stuff.

So, there's always an alternative and I don't mind usually. If I'm really tired, then the choices are limited to something easy that mama doesn't feel too overwhelmed to make.


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## Vancouver Mommy (Aug 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
My kid just wouldn't eat.... AND we'd have a miserable child who was hungry and suffering from low blood sugar.









Like I say, I've known kids that would work with. Mine? Not so much.

-Angela

Same here. I don't force the issue, but I've also had reservations about letting her decide what is an "acceptable" alternative to dinner. She is not quite 3, and like most toddlers I know, is a total carb junkie. She would eat cereal or toast and marmalade six times a day if we let her. But she will also eat yogurt and fruit most of the time. I think on the whole her diet is pretty good - I try to make sure she gets at least some protein, iron, calcium, whole grains, fruit and veggies almost every day. My main goal is to create a positive relationship with food. I also don't want to make nineteen trips to the kitchen in the middle of each meal (18 trips is my absolute max). My goal is to make dinner a peaceful, enjoyable family time - not power struggles and tantrums.


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## Purple Sage (Apr 23, 2007)

Yes, the older ones (ages 11 and 4.5) get to choose something else if they really don't like what we're having. They can have pb&j or oatmeal or leftovers from a previous meal that they liked - something quick and easy. I do ask that they try what the rest of us are having, but I don't insist that they eat much.


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## glorified_rice (Jun 5, 2005)

Sure, as long as it's a healthy alternative. Cut cucumbers and red pepper, cheese and oatmeal seem to be kind of a standard in our household.


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## mamamilkers (Nov 11, 2005)

I don't, but I don't think it's a bad idea. I don't prepare meals that I know my older DD absolutely hates all around. Tonight we had chicken cacciatore and I knew she wouldn't be a fan, but she ate the noodles out and the chicken. So, I make stuff that has some ingredients she will like. She's our picky one. The little one hasn't gotten there, yet!

I have known children like Angela's, though. A little girl I used to nanny for would make herself throw up if you put anything in her mouth that she didn't want there. It's like, well, what are you going to do?


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

Quote:

Nope. Don't like it...don't eat it. But there's nothing but water until the next meal. The rule is "i'm not a restaurant."








Not even healthy snacks? Fruit? Veggies? Nuts?? _Really_ nothing but water??


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I don't have one standard, but if she doesn't like dinner she is welcome to something else simple (she doesn't like pb&j....) It could be a yogurt or cream cheese on bread or a bagel or any number of simple things - whatever we have that she's interested in.

No limit.

-Angela









:

us, too.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

What I did was anytime I made something that I knew dd didn't like, when she was little, was I made her something she did. Usually mac and cheese because she really liked that. DH and I liked stuff like spicy food that she didn't like at that time.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NaomiMcC* 
Nope. Don't like it...don't eat it. But there's nothing but water until the next meal. The rule is "i'm not a restaurant."

wow, that is a set up for food issues for your kids. Nothing but water, till the next meal


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
wow, that is a set up for food issues for your kids. Nothing but water, till the next meal









Yeah, sorry, got to agree here.

I think that is cruel and abusive.

-Angela


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Yeah, sorry, got to agree here.

I think that is cruel and abusive.

I think abusive is a bit harsh. It's not like her kids are not being offered food. I don't think she's doing this to an infant or young toddler. It's not like they're going to starve until the next meal. There are a lot of truly abusive situations regarding kids and food... kids that are truly starved...and have to forage in garbage dumps for food...and this just isn't one of them.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *umsami* 
I think abusive is a bit harsh. It's not like her kids are not being offered food. I don't think she's doing this to an infant or young toddler. It's not like they're going to starve until the next meal. There are a lot of truly abusive situations regarding kids and food... kids that are truly starved...and have to forage in garbage dumps for food...and this just isn't one of them.

I *DO* believe it's abusive. I don't think it's too harsh at all. I think many in our society have serious control issues about food, and this sounds like one of those cases.

I maintain, it is ABUSIVE to require a child eat something they don't like or go hungry. (in a situation where there is other food available and the adults are choosing to withhold it from the children)

-Angela


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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

Never. It creates picky eaters.
They are not required to take a single bite, but if they're really hungry, they can eat some of what's offered or wait until the next eating opportunity.


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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamamilkers* 
I don't prepare meals that I know my older DD absolutely hates all around.

Precisely. Why would I deliberately make something that some of my family doesn't like? I never serve just ONE thing, so there's bound to always be something for everyone to eat.


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

My son (and I) eat small meals/snacks about 6 times a day, so if he refuses one, no big deal just wait a couple hours. If I'm making a dinner I'll think whether he'll eat it or not - I know what he'll accept and what he won't - and I'll make him something else if he won't eat much of it, no discussion with him needed.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *veganf* 
Never. It creates picky eaters.
They are not required to take a single bite, but if they're really hungry, they can eat some of what's offered or wait until the next eating opportunity.

I disagree it creates picky eaters, you want to see someone with control issues in later life? Don't give them any control when they are young.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Yeah, sorry, got to agree here.

I think that is cruel and abusive.

-Angela

I think it's abusive also.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *umsami* 
I think abusive is a bit harsh. It's not like her kids are not being offered food. I don't think she's doing this to an infant or young toddler.

There is nothing in the posters post that indicates the ages she enforces the water only rule. Additionally a quick scan of her posts indicates she has kids that are still being slung so toddler age.


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## *Jessica* (Jun 10, 2004)

If we tried to make Nik eat something he didn't want to try, he wouldn't eat anything (even foods he likes) and we would all be miserable for the rest of the evening. In fact, that has happened a few times before. The last time it happened, we offered him something later in the evening but he was so mad at us that he refused to eat. He woke up the next morning and took a drink of the water he keeps by his bed and immediately threw up water and bile.

Ever since then we have made him an alternative if we know he won't eat what we're having. I put small amounts of what we're having on his plate and we let him know that he doesn't need to eat anything he doesn't want, but that we don't want to hear him complain. He's exposed to foods he would never put on his own plate and sometimes he even tries them! We don't have our entire evening ruined and he doesn't get sick from being so hungry.

Alternatives to the meal are: yogurt w/ fruit, cheddar cheese and yellow mustard on ww bread, pb&j, or sometimes cereal w/ milk. He always has plenty of fruit and will usually eat at least one part of the meal as well. It takes me seconds to make one of those up for him.

When Marc was little the only things he would eat were pb&j and chicken noodle soup. Seriously, the kid ate almost nothing else, even for breakfast! By the time he was a teenager he was happily eating a healthy variety. Now, he'll try anything and likes most of it. He was the pickiest eater I have ever heard of, and he turned out fine.

And he's not the only one. I've talked to a ton of people lately (because I was worrying about how picky Nik is) and so many of them were really picky as young children but have grown up to enjoy a wide variety of healthy foods.

I've also read about how young children's taste buds are more sensitive and that's why many are so picky. It makes sense, and it makes it even harder for me to swallow the lump that forms in my throat when I think about parents who make their kids eat food they don't like or eat nothing until the next day. Can you imagine being forced to eat (insert the food you hate the most) or going hungry for 12+ hours?! I agree that it sounds abusive, controlling, and very likely to create huge food issues.

So to answer the original question.....we do offer an alternative. It's never been necessary for my younger will-try-anything-you-put-in-front-of-him son, but it's a daily occurrence for my 4.5 year old.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I think forcing a child to eat *only* what you've decided they should want/like or be happy with at that moment or to have only water is pretty awful.







I strive to treat my kids how I would want to be treated and how I hope they will grow to treat others, and that's just not it.


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## aschmied (Apr 22, 2007)

We provide standard alternatives. If DD doesn't like what's for dinner (right now in her new "picky" phase that's 99% of the time.







) she may have
1) cereal and milk
2) bread and butter
3) any raw or cooked veggies that we have on hand.

For a long time cereal was her top pick. At the moment it's bread and butter. She used to just eat what we ate, but about 3 months ago she stopped doing that. She's starting to show some interest again.







I also try to ensure that there is something that _in theory_ she would eat. Just because she likes something doesn't mean she'll eat it at dinner, right now!

Dinner tends to be a bit more complicated for us, as DH is something of a gourmet. I try to make sure that all breakfasts and lunches are things she actually wants, at the time.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Just thought I'd toss out another tactic that DOES work for us.

We don't label food- yucky, I don't like that, gross, etc.

We never say you don't want that, you don't like it (okay, once in a blue moon with candy I know she won't like, but mama has her limits on pointless stickiness







)

And ya know what? Tonight I offered her calamari. Just as unemotionally as if it was bread. And not only did she take it on her plate- she ATE two pieces of it.

If I had insisted *this* child take one bite of it (even if it were a food she'd like...) she wouldn't have touched it for months to come. Instead she ate it just like it was any other interesting new food.










-Angela


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## Samjm (Mar 12, 2005)

DD1 eats like a bird. She's tiny and skinny and really needs to eat more. But we don't force her to eat when we eat either. She's expected to sit at the table with us and at least try some of the food, but we don't force the issue. Invariably a couple of hours after dinner she's helping herslef to some fruit or something which is fine.

So I guess we do a combo of both. We don't OFFER an alternative, but alternatives are available if she requests it. I always serve something I know she'll eat, and I expect her to at least try some of it. If she doesn't eat much dinner, I don't restrict her access to food later.


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## LilMama23 (Jul 8, 2005)

If DD doesn't like what I've cooked, I ask her "what healthy choice would you like?" Right now she's still so young, so I supply some options - "yogurt and cheese? peanut butter and banana sandwich?" etc. As she gets older, she will have to choose her own healthy (by my standards







) alternative. I hope that this will help her realize why I serve balanced meals.


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## Alkenny (May 4, 2004)

Yep, we always do the peanut butter sandwich rule. As long as they get some protien and whatnot in them, I don't have a big problem. Just no junk.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

We don't generally offer an alternative option for dinner- in a way I kind of feel like that is disrespectful to the person who prepared the meal. I do try & make sure that I'm serving at least one thing each person likes. And i am lucky that my kids eat lots of different foods, although they sometimes do get stuck in a bit of a rut & we have to encourage them to try new stuff.

My strategies have been different, depending on the age of my kids. When they were very little ie. toddlers, well, sometimes the only thing they _would_ eat was toast & apple slices or frozen peas. But I always made sure that I would put a little bit of the unwanted food on their plate (as long as it wasn't runny, of course!) just in case they decided they wanted to try it after all.

Now that they are older, I pretty much know what they do like, & I certainly routinely offer non-spicy variations of the main meal. In the rare event that one of them doesn't like it, then I do ask that they try it once, please, & then see if there is anything else on the table that will fill the tummy until morning (we eat late & the kids usually go to bed within 1 hour after finishing). If it really, _really_ is that bad & my kiddo is just not going to eat it, then yeah, I'd say go make yourself a piece of buttered toast & a glass of milk, & grab a carrot if you are still hungry.










But I do think I am really lucky that they do eat many things. But not spicy! I save those meals for date night.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NaomiMcC* 
Nope. Don't like it...don't eat it. But there's nothing but water until the next meal. The rule is "i'm not a restaurant."

Not even a sandwich? Aren't there foods you just don't like?


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:

I kind of feel like that is disrespectful to the person who prepared the meal.
I think this is the foundational issue. Many people seem to assign some sort of disrespect to the fact that someone may not like a certain food. Or this idea that their work in preperation requires the reward of peoples appreciation. The thing is though, one having a personal distaste of a certain food is no reflection on the cook. Ok well if it was made really badly then it might







. I know I've messed up some dinners and refused to eat it because it was horrible. But that is totally seperate.

There is nothing inherantly disrespectful about no liking broccoli ( just to toss out a random an example).

Some people are like my dh and will eat anything put in front of him because he just isn't that into food in general. He has a few things he hates but other than that he just eats whatever is available. Other people, like me, the very thought of putting something in my mouth is an extremely personal thing and being forced or coerced to experience something I abhor is anathema.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
There is nothing inherantly disrespectful about no liking broccoli ( just to toss out a random an example).

Exactly. I can't stand cooked black eyed peas, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, or artichokes. If someone makes them and I decline to eat them it doesn't mean I don't respect that person, it just means I don't like the taste/texture of those foods.









I do not understand the _"it's disrespectful to the cook"_ line of thinking at all. I mean, sure, it's not necessary to freak out and scream _"OMG I hate this crap!!"_ at the top of one's lungs or anything, but a simple _"No thanks. I don't care for these."_ is a-ok with me.


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

We make a monthly menu with every day assigned to a full dinner, complete with main dish, side dish, bread, veggie, etc.

That way, we can all pick, as a family, what we'll eat. I also try and alternate something my kids (mainly DD) don't 'love' with a next day meal that they do.

Of course, if they don't want it, they get no other option. But, because there is quite a bit on their plate, they tend to end up full anyway.

Also, if they don't eat the entire plate, they get no seconds. For example, If DS eats all of his peas, he doesn't get any more peas until he eats all of his chicken and rice.

Of course, my children aren't very picky (DS will eat ANYTHING). The only thing I won't make DS eat is peas because they literally make her gag and dry heave.

Everything else goes in their belly or they go hungry until the next meal; I hate wasting food. It's been that way since they were small and we've never had any problems.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

UnschoolnMa & Arduinna, I think maybe I didn't explain my pov very well in my last post. I am sorry, I did try to edit but I am having issues with my aging laptop, amongst other things.









I think the reason I feel that my kids refusing a meal feels like a dis is because I do try really, really hard to take into account _everyone's_ preferences, every time I cook. I ask, 'want some broccoli with dinner tonight?' or "can you deal with salad as a veggie again tonight?'. And if they say they just don't want steamed (or fresh) whatever for tea, well.... okay. I'd ask what veg they wanted from the fridge instead. The same idea works for proteins & carbs & all sorts of good foods, I reckon. We all usually come to some mutually acceptable version of dinner that we can all sit down to.

Likewise, if we invite people around for dinner, if I don't already know their preferences I absolutely ask if anyone is vegetarian, doesn't like spicy, doesn't like a particular cuisine, etc. I would be embarrassed beyond belief to invite someone to dinner, & then not provide a meal that they felt comfortable eating. I like to try & do the same for my family.

Which is why I kind of feel like it is disrespectful for my kids to reject dinner out of hand, because I do ask them about dinner before I cook it.

Anyway. Hope that makes some kind of sense. I don't think my computer likes edit right now.....


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
Mine have always been able to opt out of any food or meal. In short, no one ever is required to eat anything they don't want to. Ever.









There's cereal, fruit, veggies, crackers, toast, sandwich, cheese, yogurt, or etc.

Same. I only have one kiddo, and I don't tend to go make her an elaborate alternative meal, nor will I do it til I'm done eating mine. But then whatever she wants I am happy to make for her. I encourage her to try things but if she doesn't want to, that's fine.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aussiemum* 
UnschoolnMa & Arduinna, I think maybe I didn't explain my pov very well in my last post. I am sorry, I did try to edit but I am having issues with my aging laptop, amongst other things.









I think the reason I feel that my kids refusing a meal feels like a dis is because I do try really, really hard to take into account _everyone's_ preferences, every time I cook. I ask, 'want some broccoli with dinner tonight?' or "can you deal with salad as a veggie again tonight?'. And if they say they just don't want steamed (or fresh) whatever for tea, well.... okay. I'd ask what veg they wanted from the fridge instead. The same idea works for proteins & carbs & all sorts of good foods, I reckon. We all usually come to some mutually acceptable version of dinner that we can all sit down to.

Likewise, if we invite people around for dinner, if I don't already know their preferences I absolutely ask if anyone is vegetarian, doesn't like spicy, doesn't like a particular cuisine, etc. I would be embarrassed beyond belief to invite someone to dinner, & then not provide a meal that they felt comfortable eating. I like to try & do the same for my family.

Which is why I kind of feel like it is disrespectful for my kids to reject dinner out of hand, because I do ask them about dinner before I cook it.

Anyway. Hope that makes some kind of sense. I don't think my computer likes edit right now.....

I didn't mean to single you out, which is why I didn't include your name in the quote. I only quoted you because you succinctly described what I hear a lot of other people imply.


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## JennieYoung44 (Jan 21, 2006)

There are some really great suggestions in this thread; I am personally having an issue with this currently.

I am fine at home if my kids want alternatives; I "require" 3 bites of whatever we are eating, with the understanding that they can have whatever they want after those bites. I put require in italics because often one bite is enough to let them know they hate it or love it. If they are totally disgusted I am not going to make them choke it down. Also, sometimes it just isn't going to happen, so it is more of an idea really, not so much a standard.

The 3 bites came from them actually. Me and dh were eating grapefruit one day and being secretive about it; they were delicious and we didn't want to share.

Despite having tried to get them to give grapefruit a chance for ages to no avail, finally, our "withholding" it was enough and they wanted some bites. All of them realized, 3 bites in, that it was delicious. So, we just say, "remember the grapefruit?", and they are happy to try things. After all, sometimes it turns out to be the best thing ever.

The problem is, at other people's houses. Every time someone serves something they do not recognize I cannot get them to give it a try. This is really uncomfortable and inconvenient. I don't know what to do. They are eating snacks alone and it is not really enough to keep their blood sugar balanced. *Do you guys bring food for your children when you go out to a friend's?* For the record, the food being served is perfectly good; basically just variations of the same things they eat happily at home. They aren't rude or anything; but if they get different food, my friends' kids want different food too ... if Tus wants a pb sandwich, the soup doesn't look so good anymore to Oak or Seed ...

So, that is my take.


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## columbusmomma (Oct 31, 2006)

I do offer DS an alternative. I make a lot of different ethnic dishes as well as veggies he hates! So I cannot always expect him to be pleased with the dinner choice! However I do tell DS he must try at least one bit before he claims to "hate it"!







I do try not to take it to heart that it is normal for his age to not like everything DH and I do and that as long as he eats something healthy that should be the main thing!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenniey* 
*Do you guys bring food for your children when you go out to a friend's?*

As a rule, no. Though if we're going for a meal where I think she might not eat, I will give her a good snack before we go.

-Angela


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## Indigo73 (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenniey* 
*Do you guys bring food for your children when you go out to a friend's?*

Yes, but we have allergy issues. Pizza pizza parties are especially hard because of a milk allergy.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

I usually serve peanut butter and jelly for dinner. Sometimes they'll ask for steak instead, so I'll let them have it.

Actually, it does seem like we eat different things at dinner, or eat when we are hungry, and that tends to be at different times. So we end up not having a standard dinner. Sometimes I'm making them something I think they will like, and I serve vegetables, even putting some on the plate. They don't usually eat them, they just eat the part they like. So if it is meat and pasta and vegetables, they'll eat the meat or the pasta. Or the vegetables and the meat, depending on the child. The whole dinner thing seems like some huge minefield, and I got tired of dealing with it. I feel guilty for not being a natural foods AP hard ass, so I've been trying the suggestions I've read, but I get angry resentful kids telling me they don't care about health, I'm weird, I'm not like other moms, I'm a terrible cooker etc. etc. especially when my kids get way more than their share of bad foods. Which is the problem, I know, they've tasted it, they know it is there, they constantly beg me to buy it, and the fact that it isn't in the house doesn't seem to matter at all. It's like, "Duh mom, go to the STORE, that's where they sell FOOD."

Then there is the whole "I'm hungry, I need to eat now" right as I'm cooking dinner. So I give them the side dishes ahead of time, like fruit or bread or whatever they are willing to eat as a snack, and I just make the main food. Which, of course they don't eat, because they've already eaten at that point. So now I just cook what I want to eat, and if they want some of it, I share and find something else if I'm still hungry.

My husband is on his own. His food and dinner plans usually have nothing to do with us, although the other day he made some lamb tenderloin on the grill that he didn't quite like, so we ate the rest of it as part of our dinner.


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## JennieYoung44 (Jan 21, 2006)

you are the funniest thing ever!

eta ... the above post changed ... it really was funny.

I went a whole month giving my boys pb & j or oatmeal for dinner. My husband thought I'd lost my mind, in fact it improved their appetites.


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## Petersmamma (Mar 28, 2006)

I offer ds something different if I know he won't like what we are having, but then it's something simple. His favorite thing right now is a Nutri-grain type bar (not the best, I know....), so that's easy!

Some nights I will give in when he doesn't want to eat what we are eating because I don't want him waking up hungry in the middle of the night. But most of the time he eats what we are eating.


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## BetsyS (Nov 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
Aren't there foods you just don't like?

Here's the thing. Not really. I mean, I don't prefer fennel, but if I'm hungry, I'd eat a big fennel pie. I don't like diet coke, but if I'm thirsty, I'll drink it. I can't think of a single food that I wouldn't eat if I was hungry.

So, it's really hard for me to wrap my head around someone just not liking something. I'm trying, I'm really trying. But, it's hard when the toddler throws everything off the table to the dog before he even tastes it. I am determined that he is in charge of what he eats, though, but I can see this becoming a problem in later years.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyS* 
Here's the thing. Not really. I mean, I don't prefer fennel, but if I'm hungry, I'd eat a big fennel pie. I don't like diet coke, but if I'm thirsty, I'll drink it. I can't think of a single food that I wouldn't eat if I was hungry.

So, it's really hard for me to wrap my head around someone just not liking something. I'm trying, I'm really trying. But, it's hard when the toddler throws everything off the table to the dog before he even tastes it. I am determined that he is in charge of what he eats, though, but I can see this becoming a problem in later years.

Keep trying. There are really people with real aversions to things.

For me it's largely texture. Some textures REALLY totally ick me out. My parents never made special food for us and always made us try it and to this day, trying to choke down a bite of sausage can literally make me gag.

-Angela


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## mbtmom2000 (Nov 6, 2005)

Dd and Ds are welcome to have cereal, fruit, cut veggies and dip, sandwiches or some other healthy alternative if they do not want what is prepared. However, I make a point to have something in the meal that everyone will eat.

I ask that the dc atleast try something... but it is only a suggestion. I do not force them to try or eat something that they prefer not to.

I try to take their tastes into consideration--- However, I do make things that dh and I like as well. On those nights, I prepare them something else.
For instance,we love spicy chicken tortilla soup, but they do not. I usually make them soft chicken tacos since I have the ingredients prepared for the soup.

Dawn


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 

I maintain, it is ABUSIVE to require a child eat something they don't like or go hungry. (in a situation where there is other food available and the adults are choosing to withhold it from the children)

-Angela


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
I think forcing a child to eat *only* what you've decided they should want/like or be happy with at that moment or to have only water is pretty awful.







I strive to treat my kids how I would want to be treated and how I hope they will grow to treat others, and that's just not it.









:


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## robertandenith (Apr 1, 2008)

I don't at all. Specially now that I am not working anymore and we eat mostly organic and that's expensive! What I do is offer healthy snacks like bananas, strawberries, veggie sticks or things like that, if they don't want to eat their dinner I am not worried that they are not eating well. So I put the food away until they are hungry again. I have to admit that we do not buy fruit juices, sodas, chips or any sort of junk food, so they have no choice to open the fridge and ask for what we have available hehehe!!!


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenniey* 
you are the funniest thing ever!

eta ... the above post changed ... it really was funny.

Yeah, i had just the one line. Then I added an explanation. I am a notorious editer, I post, read, edit, read some more, edit.

I dunno. If all I have in the house are healthy foods, it doesn't mean they will eat. My husband will go for a day or two without food rather than eat something he dislikes. Seriously. It's just the way he is.

So usually we have apples in the house, and cheese. My older daughter who is 8 will eat sourdough bread with monterey jack cheese melted on it. It's her favorite snack, so I buy those things. I have the Ezekiel sprouted grain bread, but she won't eat it usually, although she ate it toasted for breakfast once. It was the bread I served her for the second year of her life, basically, but she never ate bread. Then one day she got a sandwich with white bread, and she started telling me the kind of bread I had to buy. She's not going to eat things she doesn't like.

One day she was hungry, I told her what I was planning on making for dinner--soba noodles with chicken and a peanut sauce. She thought that sounded good and was excited about it. After I put it on the table, she thought it looked disgusting. She wouldn't try it, she just started crying and saying, "I can't eat that, it's disgusting, it looks like vomit, I want food, not vomit" etc, etc. Her father told her she was excused, she didn't have to eat it. "What else can I have then?" "Nothing." "But I'm huuuuuuuuuuunnnngryyyy!" "How can you be hungry if you won't even try it?"

Now my husband probably wouldn't try it either, but he would not eat because that's just the way he is. I was kind of ticked because she wouldn't even take a bite, not a bite. It wasn't a taste thing, it wasn't a texture thing, it was just she didn't like the look of it. That just ticked me off that she likes the ingredients, thought it sounded good before I made it, which was part of what prompted me to make it, and then completely balked at even trying one tiny bite. I told her she could have cauliflower, so she ate some raw cauliflower and then went off to play. I don't think she ate anything else that night. If she had come to me later, for like a snack before bed which she is not shy about doing, I'd have given her something else, but she didn't.

Tonight we had pizza and creamed spinach. Or I should say, *I* had creamed spinach, my other 2 wouldn't touch it. I don't know if my 8 year old has had a vegetable in the last week, but I would bet not. I worry that it's abusive of me not to be a little firmer in my insistence that they eat at least a few bites of something plant based, but I figure they will come to that conclusion on their own, or they won't. I don't really remember being forced to eat vegetables as a child. I did eat them, but it wasn't a force thing. A lot of vegetables I hated back then and wouldn't touch I now eat. My husband, on the other hand, was forced to eat vegetables, and actually threw them up once. He detested carrots with a passion, apparently. He won't touch vegetables with a ten foot pole. Oh well, the whole process of adaptation in human eating patterns has to start somewhere, so we are contributing to the day when human beings can eschew vegetables altogether.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
My kid just wouldn't eat.... AND we'd have a miserable child who was hungry and suffering from low blood sugar.









Like I say, I've known kids that would work with. Mine? Not so much.

-Angela

Gosh, I cannot imagine being 'made' to sample a food. Ugh ugh ugh. I think I'd throw up.

I cannot get over how totally disrespectful this policy seems to me. If you wouldn't force an adult to sample your cooking, why oh why do so many parents think it is acceptable to do it to a child.

And as for nothign but water until the next meal if they don't eat what's offered............what the heck?

Last night dh cooked dinner and I took one bite and hated it. Really hated it. I'm not fussy about most food, but it had a flavor that repulsed me. I'm imagining how it would have felt to have been told that I could have nothing more until the morning. I was HUNGRY for heaven's sake!

Thankfully, I"m not a child, and we don't have policies like that in this house. I got a bowl of cereal, because that was easier than cooking. Actually, dh offered to cook me something else first, but I refused.

How is it OK to treat children so disrespectfully over food, amongst parent who supposedly believe in gentle, respectful parenting. I truly don't get it.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Well, to be fair, I don't think the people who institute the 3 bite rule or whatever are physically forcing their children to eat something. It's more that they wear down their resistance by telling them to do it it a number of times, (like I do when I get my four year old to do anything, and like she does right back at me, LOL), or their children are reasonably obedient.

I made my 8 year old some cooked cauliflower in an alfredo sauce, and I thought she'd like it since cauliflower is the only vegetable she will eat, although she doesn't like it cooked. I put it on her plate and told her to try it. She said she didn't want to, I told her that she would probably like it and to please try it. That was it. She tried it, liked it, asked for seconds.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

So, how it works in our house is this:

It comes to a meal time. I ask the kids what they feel like. Generally they come to a decision between them. Usually it's the same thing. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes I suggest something that dh and I would want to eat too, and usually they all say yes. If they don't, I make something different for those who don't want the main meal.

Honestly, I don't see a big deal over fixing different meals. Actually, meals like Thanksgiving or Christmas involve a lot of that for us. Dh and I want a traditional English roast dinner, the kids don't like that. One likes beans, one likes eggs. Someone else likes fruit. So, I cook our roast dinner, then I quickly heat some beans and fry a couple of eggs. I put a fruit plate out for everyone to share.

The strange thing is that I like doing this. I like catering to their individual preferences. Sometimes I read these threads and I feel that I live on a different planet, but it's true. I am more than happy to be what Americans call a 'short order cook'. When my kids are older, they can be their own short order cooks.

My biggest ambition is to raise kids without food issues. I think right now we're on track. My kids certainly don't have the food issues that I had, as a child raised with no choices by a mother who would not short-order cook. I grew up to become an adult who went nuts when she finally got her freedom over food. I don't want to deny my kids that freedom over choices regarding their own bodies.

And overall, my kids eat a balanced diet. It may be what some people would call 'picky', but I have every confidence that as they get older their tastes will widen. Picky is just a phase in most cases. And if it's not a phase, so what? Who am I to say that they must grow up to like eating every type of food on the planet? It's their body, their choice.

And I really should not read these threads...................note to self...... do not read threads about how to get kids to eat....................


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum* 
Honestly, I don't see a big deal over fixing different meals.

That's pretty much what I do here. I don't want to eat the foods they eat, and the little one likes different things than the older one. So like the other day I had a vegetable focaccia, my 8 year old had beef enchiladas from Trader Joe's. I think the 4 year old had a peanut butter & jelly sandwich, but I had to go out before she was hungry for dinner, so my husband made it for her around 7 pm.

Quote:

And I really should not read these threads...................note to self...... do not read threads about how to get kids to eat....................








I'm not really sure what is upsetting you on this thread. I think most everyone is in agreement with you, actually.


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## SevenVeils (Aug 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum* 
So, how it works in our house is this:

It comes to a meal time. I ask the kids what they feel like. Generally they come to a decision between them. Usually it's the same thing. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes I suggest something that dh and I would want to eat too, and usually they all say yes. If they don't, I make something different for those who don't want the main meal.

Honestly, I don't see a big deal over fixing different meals. Actually, meals like Thanksgiving or Christmas involve a lot of that for us. Dh and I want a traditional English roast dinner, the kids don't like that. One likes beans, one likes eggs. Someone else likes fruit. So, I cook our roast dinner, then I quickly heat some beans and fry a couple of eggs. I put a fruit plate out for everyone to share.

The strange thing is that I like doing this. I like catering to their individual preferences. Sometimes I read these threads and I feel that I live on a different planet, but it's true. I am more than happy to be what Americans call a 'short order cook'. When my kids are older, they can be their own short order cooks.

My biggest ambition is to raise kids without food issues. I think right now we're on track. My kids certainly don't have the food issues that I had, as a child raised with no choices by a mother who would not short-order cook. I grew up to become an adult who went nuts when she finally got her freedom over food. I don't want to deny my kids that freedom over choices regarding their own bodies.

And overall, my kids eat a balanced diet. It may be what some people would call 'picky', but I have every confidence that as they get older their tastes will widen. Picky is just a phase in most cases. And if it's not a phase, so what? Who am I to say that they must grow up to like eating every type of food on the planet? It's their body, their choice.

And I really should not read these threads...................note to self...... do not read threads about how to get kids to eat....................









You're awesome.

My thing is, I try to make things that they like. If I miss, no biggie, I have absolutely zero emotional investment in whether or not they like it. I think this may be the first time that I have disagreed with Viola, but the peanut sauce? I wouldn't have minded, really. Last week my 10 year old son picked out a recipe that he wanted me to make, we decided together on some modifications, he was very excited about it and he helped to cook it.

But he hated it. I didn't mind. I wouldn't have minded even if he hadn't actually tried it. I wished that I had made something that he liked, but nothing more than that.

I am not always willing to make something else, though. Sometimes I am, sometimes not. If not, there are always healthy things for even littles to forage for, with my help if they're little. I don't have things around that aren't healthy, so whatever they grab is fine.

ETA: I would never have a 3 bite rule or a 1 bite rule or etc. I would never ever ever think of depriving my kids of food if they don't like what I made. Ever. That seems punitive and just awful.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

I prepare one family dinner for everyone. I rarely make something I know someone doesn't prefer and I almost always make sure dinner includes at least something everyone really enjoys. I introduce new foods alongside old favorites, that sort of thing. Yes I encourage everyone to try new things. We do "no thank you" portions of little things for tastes or something someone didn't like in the past but might like it now or prepared this new way. For example, my son doesn't like mashed potoatoes but a few weeks ago I made garlic-buttermilk smashed potatoes and I gave him a small dollop alongside the rest of his dinner - he took a bite and actually liked them. I would never want to get caught in a rut because enjoying many different foods is both pleasurable and healthy.


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## slymamato3 (Jan 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
I prepare one family dinner for everyone. I rarely make something I know someone doesn't prefer and I almost always make sure dinner includes at least something everyone really enjoys. I introduce new foods alongside old favorites, that sort of thing. Yes I encourage everyone to try new things. We do "no thank you" portions of little things for tastes or something someone didn't like in the past but might like it now or prepared this new way. For example, my son doesn't like mashed potoatoes but a few weeks ago I made garlic-buttermilk smashed potatoes and I gave him a small dollop alongside the rest of his dinner - he took a bite and actually liked them. I would never want to get caught in a rut because enjoying many different foods is both pleasurable and healthy.

Thats how it is at my house too.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skyastara* 
I think this may be the first time that I have disagreed with Viola, but the peanut sauce? I wouldn't have minded, really.









There is a first time for everything!









The minding on my part comes from the attitude more than anything else. She likes peanut sauce, she's eaten peanut sauce with noodles before, but because it looked different than normal, she was not only unwilling to try it, but got insulting when I suggested it. I've said some of it here, but it was just this outraged tone, "You have to be kidding if you think I will eat this, it looks like vomit, I want real food!" I was nice about it at first, really, but as it went on and on with her venting her spleen, I got fed up and her rudeness pissed off her father. He, not I, was the one who told her she didn't get another dinner if she wouldn't even taste the first one. She came back a little while later and asked for the cauliflower I had offered.

I will admit we probably don't have the best dynamic in this house.







My husband *hates* the way the kids talk to me and feels like I allow them to be too rude to me. I've gotten this from other people too. I feel like the kids and I have a different dynamic going on than they do with other adults. I do remind them over and over to phrase things a little more kindly, to say please or thank you, but I figure it takes a long time to sink through. One day they will get it, right? Like one day they may want to eat vegetables.









The thing is, if my 4 year old doesn't like what I serve her, she will just go get her own food, often no questions asked. The 8 year old has only recently started doing this, like in the last 6 months or so. She'll ask for snacks that usually have to be cooked, and she'll ask for dinner after we've eaten dinner, claiming that that was actually a snack or lunch or not real food or whatever. Maybe she's a hobbit!

In any event, I don't have any set in stone you must try this rule, but I don't think it's abusive to have those.


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## JennieYoung44 (Jan 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum* 
How is it OK to treat children so disrespectfully over food, amongst parent who supposedly believe in gentle, respectful parenting. I truly don't get it.









Well, personally, as stated, I don't force anything. It isn't like I am holding them down and making them eat it. I am asking them to do it. Because we have a pretty respectful relationship, they usually try it. I think most of the posters on this thread who "implement a bite rule" are not denying their children's rights. They just have this rule, and people just do it. If I know my kid hates brown rice, I don't give it to him. I give him something else. So, it isn't like he tastes brown rice one night and doesn't like it, and I make it 2 nights later and make him taste it again. Does this make sense? I imagine, most of the other people on this thread feel the same; at least that is what I get from their posts.

There are certain policies I do not agree with. So, I am not talking about them.

I think it would be pretty disrespectful of an adult to not give something a taste; certainly no one is forcing anything, but it is just generally nicer to give new things a try, right? You tasted the food before you decided you didn't like it. I am trying to get my kids to do this also. Try it. If you don't like it, don't be rude, just be polite about it. It is okay, no one is going to mad at you for not liking something. But, people may be put off if you look at the food in front of you and refuse it. So, for what it is worth, that is how I feel about it.

In the event that this is not already clear, yes, sometimes I look at something and already know I don't like it: shell fish for instance. It isn't happening. I'm not trying it. I just won't. I respect that my kids may feel this way about certain foods. I certainly don't tell them to shut up and try it, if this is the case. We just discuss it. In general, I ask that they try the food in front of them. Sometimes, they won't. In that case, I assume they know something about their own tastes that I don't.

I hope that clears this up, from my pov. That is why I don't think it is a disrespectful policy. It is about how it is done, as are most things in life.

ETA: actually, I agreed entirely with what you had in your previous post. That is basically what meal times are like at my house too.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum*
Gosh, I cannot imagine being 'made' to sample a food. Ugh ugh ugh. I think I'd throw up.

I cannot get over how totally disrespectful this policy seems to me. If you wouldn't force an adult to sample your cooking, why oh why do so many parents think it is acceptable to do it to a child.

If an adult came to my house for a dinner party and refused to eat anything served to her, I would think she was the rudest person on the face of the Earth and never invite her back. Period. That is possibly one of the worst things you can do, to refuse food. In some countries, you would be completely socially ostracized for doing something like that and wars have started over lesser slights.

(Oh and before everyone freaks, OBVIOUSLY I'm not talking about people with food allergies or ethical food preferences, but just as obviously if I were having such people over for dinner they would already have communicated to me that they don't eat meat or that they are deathly allergic to gluten. I've entertained many a vegan and allergy sufferer with absolutely no such problems as someone sitting there with a grimmace on their face at the dining room table, saying "yuck I hate salmon" and refusing to eat a thing. I mean, omg, can you IMAGINE!?)


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## Sage_SS (Jun 1, 2007)

No, fi they don't like it they dont have to eat it, but they aren't allowed to have something else.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
If an adult came to my house for a dinner party and refused to eat anything served to her, I would think she was the rudest person on the face of the Earth and never invite her back. Period. That is possibly one of the worst things you can do, to refuse food. In some countries, you would be completely socially ostracized for doing something like that and wars have started over lesser slights.

There are polite ways to do it. When serving (if each person is serving themselves) I see no reason that everyone MUST have some of everything. There is nothing rude about skipping a dish or two.

-Angela


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## yoginisarah (Dec 20, 2007)

I haven't really had to do this yet. My son is 18 months old and will eat pretty much everything and anything we give to him. However, I will allow him to eat other healthy, easy-to-fix items if he doesn't like or want what I made for dinner. Truthfully, sometimes I don't even end up eating what I've made for dinner since I usually cook in the morning due to my evening work schedule and then by evening I'm in the mood for something else. I think it would be really hard for someone else to set the menu every night and tell me that there were no other options.
To me, it isn't a big deal to feed him something else and it keeps the peace. We only keep healthy food in the house so I won't have to refuse to feed him something junky either. Basically, if its there, he can have it.
I have to refuse food all the time because we're vegan. It is a little awkward when we go to playgroups and everyone is handing around the cheese or muffins. Or when they ask if Oliver can have some of their child's cheddar goldfish since he's clearly interested. There are plenty of ways, even as adults, to politely refuse food.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
There are polite ways to do it. When serving (if each person is serving themselves) I see no reason that everyone MUST have some of everything. There is nothing rude about skipping a dish or two.

-Angela

Totally agreed. And.or you could take a tiny dollop but not eat it or whatever.

BUT... the comparison was a child who flat out refuses dinner, and the poster said, well, how come we expect things of children that we don't expect of adults. I'd actually argue the bar is QUITE a bit higher for adults in this case than children. A 5 year-old turns up their nose at an entire dinner, well, some would say, what can you do. A 35 year-old does that as someone's guest at dinner? OMG. Major etiquette breach. Extremely rude.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
As a rule, no. Though if we're going for a meal where I think she might not eat, I will give her a good snack before we go.

-Angela

That is what we always did.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyS* 
Here's the thing. Not really. I mean, I don't prefer fennel, but if I'm hungry, I'd eat a big fennel pie. I don't like diet coke, but if I'm thirsty, I'll drink it. I can't think of a single food that I wouldn't eat if I was hungry.

So, it's really hard for me to wrap my head around someone just not liking something. I'm trying, I'm really trying. But, it's hard when the toddler throws everything off the table to the dog before he even tastes it. I am determined that he is in charge of what he eats, though, but I can see this becoming a problem in later years.

I appreciate that you are trying to understand something that you don't experience yourself. I'd have nothing than have to drink a diet coke, unless I was stranded in the desert and thought I'd die of dehydration first.









I don't go to dinner parties, so I can't wrap my head around that one. I have been known to eat before going to my parents though, because even though my mom is a great cook she makes a lot of stuff that I don't like.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
Totally agreed. And.or you could take a tiny dollop but not eat it or whatever.

BUT... the comparison was a child who flat out refuses dinner, and the poster said, well, how come we expect things of children that we don't expect of adults. I'd actually argue the bar is QUITE a bit higher for adults in this case than children. A 5 year-old turns up their nose at an entire dinner, well, some would say, what can you do. A 35 year-old does that as someone's guest at dinner? OMG. Major etiquette breach. Extremely rude.

Well, it depends. Perhaps the person has ethical issues or allergies or medical conditions that they don't feel comfortable discussing. And frankly, there are still polite ways to do it.

-Angela


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Why does it have to be "turn up their nose", I mean using that description in itself is making a big old assumption.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Well, it depends. Perhaps the person has ethical issues or allergies or medical conditions that they don't feel comfortable discussing. And frankly, there are still polite ways to do it.

-Angela

Angela, please read my small note under the post where I first talk about it where I specifically talked about this because I KNEW people were going to say "well what about allergies." I already addressed this. Yes, there are polite was to do it... DAYS before arriving at someone's house for example.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
Why does it have to be "turn up their nose", I mean using that description in itself is making a big old assumption.

Because that is how it goes down. We're talking about kids who don't WANT to eat the dinner, not kids who aren't hungry. I mean, anyone who's happy getting a PB&J instead of beef stew is hungry. Pretty much this whole thread is talking about refusing food for strong preferences, aversions, and the like.

And again.... please let's not make this about food allergies, which is a whole other discussion. The OP and most posts since have asked what to do when a kid just says, ya know, this dinner isn't doing it for me tonight.


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

OP here. Thanks for everybody's opinion. I'm fine with offering DS a peanut butter sandwich, cheese sandwich, or eggs for dinner as an alternative. My DH has a problem with that, and is of the eat it or go hungry variety. Part of it is cultural... the country where he comes from many people are starving. Literally. So culturally, refusing to eat food is a big big deal. It is considered extremely rude and ungracious. He's afraid that if we offer the kids alternatives here, they might expect them when we visit his family... and that would not go over well.

It's weird. He says the whole kids being picky eaters is not known in his culture. Kids are grateful for whatever food they can get. So any sign of pickiness he views as just Western bad manners.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *umsami* 
It's weird. He says the whole kids being picky eaters is not known in his culture. Kids are grateful for whatever food they can get. So any sign of pickiness he views as just Western bad manners.

I think your dh is right.







As far as I know it a purely American phenomenon, or even, dare I say "movement". lol

Getting serious for a second, I do think being picky is a privilege. I think this is what strikes many of us that it's bad manners, that it's turning your nose up at perfectly good food that millions of people around the world would be grateful to have. And then there's the whole being disrespectful of nature's bounty piece. For example, no one I've ever known who has worked hard labor on a farm has turned up their noses at homecooked meals they grew themselves. Just like I can say when my kids grow their own vegetables, they eat them. And when they help me - REALLY help me - prepare dinner, they eat that too.


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## JennieYoung44 (Jan 21, 2006)

Hello OP,
thanks for checking back in.

i was just about to mention the idea that there have been times when we have not been able to afford snack type meals all the time. i mean, bean soup for everyone, or a big pot of rice, is cheap to provide ... pb and j every night and lunch actually does get expensive. so do a lot of the healthy snacks my kids would eat (yogurt, cheese, cereal bars, cereal itself...).

i was thinking that may be why we initially got them to eat what was served. and perhaps why my older kids (4 and 6 are sort of older) happily do it now. maybe they are compliant. i don't like that term. it does tend to make me feel like i've wheedled my boys into doing something. but at the same time, when it comes to groceries, i really need them to eat what i provide sometimes.

i certainly go to great lengths to make sure it is enjoyable, but my boys would honestly eat pb and j over anything else in the world for all meals. so if it is an option, they will choose it. if i don't let it be a "known option" they eat with us. i try to reserve the options for times that they really don't like something, not just aren't in the mood for it.

eta periwinkle, i agree about the helping grow and prepare food; that does help a lot. there are so many things i think we can do to make food enjoyable for our children. and meal times pleasurable.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I think _"turning up"_ one's nose at a food is fine. Though the phrase implies rudeness to me, and I would talk to my kids about being as polite as they could be in any given situation, I think it's totally acceptable to just not want to eat something either because you don't like it in general or becuase you just don't want to eat it at that moment.









My Dd doesn't like onions, perogies, or avocado and I don't take it personally. I love mashed potatoes but sometimes I just don't want to eat them and I decline and eat something else. (Or is it that I "turn up my nose")


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
Angela, please read my small note under the post where I first talk about it where I specifically talked about this because I KNEW people were going to say "well what about allergies." I already addressed this. Yes, there are polite was to do it... DAYS before arriving at someone's house for example.

And I'm saying there are people who may choose not to send advance notice for whatever reason, but would rather simply eat (or not) what they're able. There is a polite way to go about that.

-Angela


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
If an adult came to my house for a dinner party and refused to eat anything served to her, I would think she was the rudest person on the face of the Earth and never invite her back. Period. That is possibly one of the worst things you can do, to refuse food. In some countries, you would be completely socially ostracized for doing something like that and wars have started over lesser slights.

(Oh and before everyone freaks, OBVIOUSLY I'm not talking about people with food allergies or ethical food preferences, but just as obviously if I were having such people over for dinner they would already have communicated to me that they don't eat meat or that they are deathly allergic to gluten. I've entertained many a vegan and allergy sufferer with absolutely no such problems as someone sitting there with a grimace on their face at the dining room table, saying "yuck I hate salmon" and refusing to eat a thing. I mean, omg, can you IMAGINE!?)

I'm with periwinkle here..... I mean, I can cook vegan, vegetarian, non-spicy or yes-spicy, indian,thai,mexican, american, whatever!!!!

But please do let me know before hand. Please. As aforementioned, it is socially unacceptable to turn up for an invited dinner with previously unmentioned allergies. I'm sorry, it is shit to have to deal with those allergies, but the non-allergic world needs to know about it. yk?


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I think we're forgetting here that our kids are not guests in our home. In an invited situation, you have an *adult* who has willingly accepted an invitation and (should be) willing to branch out in the food dept so as to be polite to the host. We are talking about whether our children can control their own food choices day in and day out, in their own homes. That is a completely different thing... can you imagine eating things you don't enjoy on a daily basis, not having access to the things you would choose for yourself? Being a guest occasionally is NOT the same thing.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Well, my children aren't guests here in our home, although I do try & extend the same respect to them that I would give to anyone....

I don't expect adults to 'branch out' & 'be polite' when it comes to a convivial meal- that's why I ask 'what do you prefer?' and 'are there any foods that you don't like?' before we have friends around for tea.







:

I guess my point is, I do ask the kids if what I am planning to cook for dinner is acceptable ie. will you eat it? And if they tell me 'yes, I will eat potato salad' & then I fix it & they won't even try it...... well, yes, that gives me the shits.....

I think that is rude.

And I tell them that.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Funny thing is, tonight we had grilled salmon, potato salad, & grilled zucchini. Kids were okay with it & ate a lot of each, but both did not want to finish the main meal. Instead, hey had a piece of whole-grain toast & a glass of organic milk before bed....

IN the end all I really care about is 'Is your tummy full?' and if my kids answer 'Yes' then I am okay with that. If they answer 'No, I'm still hungry' then I still have some work to do.....


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Right. I mean, thismama this isn't about serving your kids liver and onions every single day and standing over them and saying EAT IT RIGHT NOW! Like I said earlier and many others have said, I can't even remember the last time I prepared a meal my kids flat out hated. And when I do serve something I know isn't to one of their tastes or if it's something wacky and/or new, I always make sure to serve something as a side dish or whatever that they love. For two reasons: one, it makes them A LOT less balky to not stare down at their plate and not recognize anything or to know they hate it all, and so they're willing to try something new or see if something they don't like they do now like prepared in a new way or whatever. Second, because I do actually like my kids to enjoy dinner and you know, eat it. Likewise, I always involve my kids in drawing up the grocery list, going grocery shopping, going to the farm market, and of course cooking. So it's not ususually this giant surprise when spaghetti and meatballs lands on the dinner table.

So I have to take serious issue with the "what if you were served food you hated every day" concept, as that is not what is happening. And I do have to say, as a member of a family -as one individual in this larger unit - there are many times I have dinners that aren't my absolute favorite. Why? Hmm... because I don't always have to be perfectly pleased all the time with everything done just to my specifications - sometimes my husband is dying for a marinaded skirt steak and well, it's not my favorite, but I agree to be, well, agreeable. I take a smaller portion of it and load up on the salad, rice pilaf, and broccoli instead. I'm laughing at the concept of throwing a big fit and making my husband make me a PB&J instead just so I can get my way.... again.

What I'm talking about - and I thought everyone was talking about - is when you serve a "normal" dinner... and the kids just get balky at it or want to just eat the rolls. And it's not that they're not hungry (I would never force my child to eat their dinner if they just weren't hungry) but you know, they really had their hearts set on just eating 5 pieces of garlic bread for dinner, or maybe on getting "delivered pizza" and oh rats it's spaghetti instead. Well, um, too bad. It's dinner. They are welcome to eat as much or as little of it as they like... and oh look, there's a big salad and a steaming plate of buttery green beans I know you love, so consider eating some more of that if you're hungry, but um, no, I'm not making you something else.







Just not seeing the crisis here.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I was simply saying that the guest analogy is not working for me and why. Being a guest is an occasional experience.

ITA that if I ask my kid, 'do you want xyz for supper,' she says yes, and I make it, I expect her to eat it. I also think it's good to make things you know everyone likes and expect that it will probably suffice for supper. And yeah, ignoring dinner and eating rolls is not great.

But I also see nothing wrong with allowing kids to have or make a simple alternative to the meal, if they don't like it, or simply don't feel like it that night. In fact I think that is basic respect in homes where food budgets are not stretched thin. People are comparing to kids in very impoverished situations, customs in other cultures, and I just don't see how that is relevant when we don't hold ourselves to those same standards.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
ITA that if I ask my kid, 'do you want xyz for supper,' she says yes, and I make it, I expect her to eat it.//And yeah, ignoring dinner and eating rolls is not great.

Exactly. But a lot of people would say that is not respecting their child. There are MANY posters on MDC who would, in that situation, say their child could eat whatever they wanted. And I would say that allowing this to happen (again, as a rule, not as a totally random thing or when a kid is sick, etc) is not respecting nature, it's not respecting the farmer who grew it or the animals that gave their lives, it's not respecting dp & me for working hard to earn money to buy it, and it's not respecting us for shopping for it, cooking it, and serving it. And yes, I do have a problem with throwing away perfectly good food when so many are going hungry. At the end of the day I don't think teaching a child that their whims come ahead of these things is doing the child ANY favors at all, and really isn't actually meeting their needs either.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
But I also see nothing wrong with allowing kids to have or make a simple alternative to the meal, if they don't like it, or simply don't feel like it that night.

This is in contradiction to what you posted above.







Again, if you're talking about a once a month thing or a child who is sick, of course. But three times a week? No way IMO.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
In fact I think that is basic respect in homes where food budgets are not stretched thin. People are comparing to kids in very impoverished situations, customs in other cultures, and I just don't see how that is relevant when we don't hold ourselves to those same standards.

See I strongly disagree. I think the fact that dh and I can afford to throw out 3 perfectly good meals a night doesn't mean it's the _right_ thing to do or that it is a helpful thing to teach a child that just because they have a "preference" for delivered pizza, buttered bread, and/or Peanut Butter Bumpers for dinner every night that it's a healthy way to eat or a respectful thing to do to our family, their parents, nature, etc.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
Exactly. But a lot of people would say that is not respecting their child. There are MANY posters on MDC who would, in that situation, say their child could eat whatever they wanted.

 That would be me.







My kid is free to eat just rolls if that's what they want that night. I do feel it's inappropriate for me to require them to eat something else from the meal if they do not want it, because among other things, I wouldn't want someone to do that to me. Respect for personal preferences. Now if all they were EVER eating was rolls for weeks and weeks on end I'd be sharing my concern over other things their bodies might be missing, etc. Honestly, that situation has never come up.

True enough if I asked my child what they wanted and they said "taco salad" and I made it and they decided they didn't want it, I might be confused but it still wouldn't be some huge crisis. Certainly not enough of a problem to make them eat it anyway or do without, etc.

Quote:

And yes, I do have a problem with throwing away perfectly good food when so many are going hungry. At the end of the day I don't think teaching a child that their whims come ahead of these things is doing the child ANY favors at all, and really isn't actually meeting their needs either.
 We don't throw away food. We save it, eat it later, use it in another dish, a fast lunch, or occasionally the dog gets a bit of dinner leftovers. I guess it's just a fundamental difference in how we see respect when it comes to kids. I think they have the right to say they don't want to eat something and have it respected exactly like I would.


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

I totally agree with UnschoolnMa.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
We don't throw away food. We save it, eat it later, use it in another dish, a fast lunch, or occasionally the dog gets a bit of dinner leftovers.

A lot of times you can't really save it. Take a hot dog placed in a bun for example. mmm... yummy... cold shriveled hot dog stuck to a cold bun and warmed in the microwave for lunch tomorrow. Ick. Or take pretty much any sandwich... grilled cheese saved for tomorrow? I'm kind of laughing at the thought. A bowl of cereal? Yuck! Or much more likely, a child has licked their spoon, played around a bit, spreading saliva all through their lasagna or stew, and it's actually pretty unsafe to try to save it (saliva breaks down the food making it rot at a VERY fast rate, even in the fridge... that's why you can't save a half-eaten jar of baby food, etc. when the feeding spoon has touched it).

We don't have dogs or backyard pigs, though I'd actually LOVE to live on a farm and own the latter because they could eat the food we do have to waste (rinds, crusts, peels, meat trimmings, etc.). I feel terrible throwing that all away.

Quote:

I guess it's just a fundamental difference in how we see respect when it comes to kids. I think they have the right to say they don't want to eat something and have it respected exactly like I would.
Oh, see, I agree. I think they can decline to eat if they're not hungry. They can say just a dollop of carrots and an extra helping of potatoes please. What they can't do is have me scurrying around the kitchen to make 3 separate meals for 3 separate kids when there is a delicious hot dinner on the table, a dinner that they like, a dinner they have been involved in choosing/sourcing/preparing, a dinner that is healthy and nutritious, and a dinner that nature (the earth, the animals, etc.) not to mention their father and I have worked hard to provide.

And again, offering alternatives is completely dependent on there being alternatives to offer. There are MANY families where, you know what, stew and rolls are what's for dinner. If you make a PB&J, someone doesn't get lunch tomorrow. If you make a bowl of Cheerios, someone doesn't get breakfast tomorrow. Just like if my child brings home 2 friends from school and they eat pretzels, my kids don't get a snack tomorrow.

I find it so disrespectul to waste food. Again, just because we CAN doesn't mean we SHOULD. This is a pretty good rule for a lot of things, actually.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

For me, tossing some left over bit of hot dog or uneaten cereal is just life. It happens. We save what we can, and then we just get on with it. I don't see that as being particularly wasteful. I don't always eat everything on my plate. Some gets saved and some gets scraped into the garbage, compost, etc.

I don't think you (or I lol) have to be making three whole seperate meals. I think it's perfectly fine for a sandwich or crackers or yogurt or veggies or cereal or whatever to be what the kid grabs instead of prepared dinner though. It takes 10 seconds to toss some cereal in a cup for a 3 year old. I can wing that and then we can all get on to the eating. Or the 7 year old can get the bread and peanut butter out and have at it. Is this what we're all talking about or ??

And I totally understand about the times there are no alternatives to really offer. I've been there both growing up and as a parent. It sucked, but we made do. If we have anything else they are welcome to it though.


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## BetsyS (Nov 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 

It takes 10 seconds to toss some cereal in a cup for a 3 year old. I can wing that and then we can all get on to the eating. Or the 7 year old can get the bread and peanut butter out and have at it. Is this what we're all talking about or ??


Ah, well, I guess I wasn't thinking that that was what you were offering. My mom cooked a separate meal for my brother (as in, the family had chicken casserole, and he would eat spaghetti) every night for years. Years. So, when I'm thinking of cooking two meals, I'm thinking two meals, not cereal in a cup.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Well I guess it would just depend. Sometimes maybe I would cook two meals. If I had some noodles already done up but we were having them one way and they wanted it another maybe I could heat up a different sauce or add a different cheese, or direct them to the fixings if they were old enough/capable etc.

I guess I don't see these things as a big deal. Maybe meal prep and dinner and eating are all just really low key at my house? We've never had a problem. People just eat.


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
Right. I mean, thismama this isn't about serving your kids liver and onions every single day and standing over them and saying EAT IT RIGHT NOW! Like I said earlier and many others have said, I can't even remember the last time I prepared a meal my kids flat out hated. And when I do serve something I know isn't to one of their tastes or if it's something wacky and/or new, I always make sure to serve something as a side dish or whatever that they love. For two reasons: one, it makes them A LOT less balky to not stare down at their plate and not recognize anything or to know they hate it all, and so they're willing to try something new or see if something they don't like they do now like prepared in a new way or whatever. Second, because I do actually like my kids to enjoy dinner and you know, eat it. Likewise, I always involve my kids in drawing up the grocery list, going grocery shopping, going to the farm market, and of course cooking. So it's not ususually this giant surprise when spaghetti and meatballs lands on the dinner table.

So I have to take serious issue with the "what if you were served food you hated every day" concept, as that is not what is happening. And I do have to say, as a member of a family -as one individual in this larger unit - there are many times I have dinners that aren't my absolute favorite. Why? Hmm... because I don't always have to be perfectly pleased all the time with everything done just to my specifications - sometimes my husband is dying for a marinaded skirt steak and well, it's not my favorite, but I agree to be, well, agreeable. I take a smaller portion of it and load up on the salad, rice pilaf, and broccoli instead. I'm laughing at the concept of throwing a big fit and making my husband make me a PB&J instead just so I can get my way.... again.

What I'm talking about - and I thought everyone was talking about - is when you serve a "normal" dinner... and the kids just get balky at it or want to just eat the rolls. And it's not that they're not hungry (I would never force my child to eat their dinner if they just weren't hungry) but you know, they really had their hearts set on just eating 5 pieces of garlic bread for dinner, or maybe on getting "delivered pizza" and oh rats it's spaghetti instead. Well, um, too bad. It's dinner. They are welcome to eat as much or as little of it as they like... and oh look, there's a big salad and a steaming plate of buttery green beans I know you love, so consider eating some more of that if you're hungry, but um, no, I'm not making you something else.







Just not seeing the crisis here.

I agree completely with everything you wrote.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Thing is... I wouldn't make something like grilled cheese or a hot dog or whatever without asking my kid first if she wants that. Our situation is a bit different as there is only her and I, but I could see the same principle working in a bigger family: "Do you want xyz for supper?" If they don't, they can make a simple alternative. Now, if I ask my kid if she wants something and she says yes, I do expect her to eat it. But I don't cook food for her without checking first, unless it is food that is just extra and can be easily saved for someone else or for another day.

The 'disrespectful to waste' thing gets trotted out a lot in these conversations, but IMO unless the kid actually says that's what they want and then doesn't eat it, they are not the ones wasting food. Not having control of what one eats day in and day out is not good for people IMO, so although I get that someone worked for the food and cooked it, that's not really the child's responsibility if they never asked to eat that particular food in the first place.

I wouldn't let my kid just eat the 'rolls' part of the meal, but that's why I do let her choose alternatives that have protein, whole grains, etc. Like a hardboiled egg, or a peanut butter sandwich, or cheese and crackers, or guac and chips, etc. Something easy to prepare that is healthy for her is fine with me.


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

Follow-Up Question:

Do you think your kids respect food? Value food? Or do they take it for granted? Do they understand where it comes from? The resources that goes into it? The fact that not all kids have food for each meal?

If so... what did you do to foster that respect.

If not... do you think it's important? What do you wish you did differently?

This question comes from numerous surveys I've seen where the average American kid does not even know that French fries are made from potatoes. They have no connection with food on their plate and where it comes from.


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## amyjeans (Jul 27, 2004)

There are nights, that PB&J is dinner, because Mom is TOO FREAKING TIRED. We tell our girls we would NEVER EVER make them eat something they wouldn't like. (like that psycology? works 95% of the time)
My 5 yr ols is picky, but I know what she likes, and healthy snacks are a great alternative.
We also eat every 2 hrs. We go to the kitchen and have cheese and crackers, or fruit, or raw veggies, a hard boiled egg- so there really is no pressure for consuming everything given, not at a particular time.

But I never maker a backup meal. We don't have the time, resources or energy at 530-6p to contemplate alternatives.
We do ask what they would like for dinner, and we also love to explore different culters through food, as well- which makes eating fun, too. Right now we are eatinh Thai- girls love it!
If they are hungry, they will eat.
Our main concern is everyone is respectful at the table and we all are given an opportunity to eat. Lately, my oldest rushes through her meal to go back and play, which gets the other 2 girls amped up, and even though they arestill hungry, they take off with her.
Irritates me.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *umsami* 
Follow-Up Question:

Do you think your kids respect food? Value food? Or do they take it for granted? Do they understand where it comes from? The resources that goes into it? The fact that not all kids have food for each meal?

If so... what did you do to foster that respect.

If not... do you think it's important? What do you wish you did differently?

This question comes from numerous surveys I've seen where the average American kid does not even know that French fries are made from potatoes. They have no connection with food on their plate and where it comes from.

Nope, my kid has no idea. She is totally sheltered, she thinks if we run out of money we just go to the bank to get more. I have told her that some people have not enough money and other people have too much, and there is a lot of unfairness in the world, and some rich governments don't give enough money to the people who need it. But she hasn't translated this into 'some people go hungry.' At least not yet, and I have not explained the subject in that much detail.

I don't think it's directly related to an 'eat what you're given and be grateful' type ideology though. There are many extravagances in our lives (and we are not rich by any means even) that I would say are far more ridiculous and unnecessary than each person's right to choose their own food. And, I don't see the logic in the idea that a child controlling what they eat is an extravagance... I mean, we buy groceries anyway right? If 3 people eat one thing and 1 person eats something else, that adds up pretty much the same as 4 people all eating the same. There is one extra serving of the main dish and one less of the alternative meal.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *umsami* 
Follow-Up Question:

Do you think your kids respect food? Value food? Or do they take it for granted? Do they understand where it comes from? The resources that goes into it? The fact that not all kids have food for each meal?

If so... what did you do to foster that respect.

If not... do you think it's important? What do you wish you did differently?

Absolutely. This is actually one of the values we hold most dear. I think it's because it ties directly into so many other things that we value, like not taking the things we have for granted, being aware that not everyone in the world - even in our community - has full tummies when they go to bed, having a deep respect for the environment and the humane treatment of animals, feeling a personal sense of responsibility for helping others when we can, everyone doing their part to help take care of our family, and so on.

We regularly take our kids to the farms in Lancaster PA where we buy our meat and stock up on this pastured naturally raised fare for our deep freezer. We buy whole broilers, whole roasters, split breasts, and drumsticks from the Stolzfuses. The kids see the animals, they meet the farmers, they see the children helping in the store (the poultry farm is an Amish farm), ds once saw a chicken being slaughtered there. He is 5. We talk a lot about where the meat comes from, how it is raised, how it is killed, and why it is important to do it a certain way. My kids know when they eat a hamburger that it came from a cow, absolutely. Chances are good they've seen the cow. The farm where we get our steaks and ground beef from has the animals on pasture except for maybe Jan-Feb when they're in the barn on the truly frigid days - but the barn is HUGE and they get lots of hay. The kids see them on the pasture. They see them on the farm.

We are going out to Lancaster tomorrow to get eggs from the Stolzfuses, and to drive around and enjoy the countryside.

We shop at a co-op and farmer's markets. The kids know how to shop for food. They have helped me draw up the grocery list since I can remember. I almost never go to the grocery store alone and going alone to the farm markets would be a high crime in my family lol. They know how to pick ripe fruit, etc. We cook together fairly often. They watch the insane amount of work I go through to make sourdough bread the real way, or watch dh fuss over a delicious ham bone soup from the leftovers from Easter and smell it simmering temptingly for a day on the back burner. This year we are expanding our tiny vegetable garden from last year and will be growing various vegetables together as a family project. I swear if I were a better person I would pull my kids out of public school and homeschool them for all the learning opportunities "growing/buying food" has provided them.







It's amazing actually what poring over an heirloom seed catalog, talking about growing conditions, about optimal yields and what we can make with squash and other vegetables my kids look askance at does for their interest in eating it. We are thinking about getting a few backyard chickens for the kids to help raise and gather eggs from, if I can ever get a straight answer about our local ordinances without outing ourselves, lol.

We don't eat strawberries (or any berries for that matter) in January, we don't eat "spring lambs" for Easter dinner, we don't eat salmon in April, we don't eat apples in June, we don't eat green beans in November, and we don't eat citrus food except in the dead of winter, and we don't eat miniature carrots from California... and yes, my kids know EXACTLY why.

Um, so yeah, I'm rambling, but YES this is a big issue for us and YES my children absolutely are developing a passion for real food, and already have a deep connection and understanding of where it all comes from (not to mention what's involved in getting it to the dinner table).


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I do not do food fights.

I cook meals with my fanmly's health in mind, and I do have the expectation that all members of my family will have need of what I carefully offer. I know what my family likes, and I know what I've cooked in past days, and whether we've been low on certain nutrients. If I am seeing low iron issues, I'll make something with , say spinach and tomatoes. If my atheletes have several meets or games in the coming week, I would cook with those physical needs in mind. I always include something I know everyone enjoys. I wouldn't easily offer a PB&J without letting my family know why I made what I did. I have noticed that often the people with the greatest nutrient needs often think they don't need to eat. Low blood sugar, cranky behavior, light headed-ness etc can be signs of un-met nutritional needs. I keep that in mind when feeding my brood.

For me, its not just about one meal at the end of one day-- it's about balancing nutritional needs over a period of time. If I thought one of my children was negatively reacting to having too many carbs and sugars without enough proteins, I would be looking to offer that person more of what he/she lacked. So ....if an iron or portein- deficient child didn't want to eat something they needed, I would be trying to figure out ways with the child to make sure their individual diet meet his/her needs.

For me, it's not about ' letting' someone choose PBJ or whatever, it's about looking at mealtimes as a greater part of their personal health. A steady diet of any one thing and no interest in other foods doesn't sit right with me, and if we read about allergies and other sensory issues, we see that a monotonous diet of limited foods ( not particularly talking about the sensitive toddler or 3 yr old here) in people can somtimes be a sign of health issues that need to be dealt with. My kids joke that I say it takes 50 or more exposures to a 'new' food for it to become familiar and therefore worthy of eating.









I am going to say it takes more than 50 offerrings for some kids, and I think that is ok. I do agree that hungry people are not picky. I am glad that my children have never had to go hungry. 'Hunger' when there is an abundance of food available isn't true hunger. I think we are all very lucky for that. I am beyond grateful that my children have choices.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Sure, we've talked about food and where it comes from many many times over the years. For me it's a spiritual thing as much as it is just a function of "got to eat to live". As a Pagan, I feel very connected to food, and though I don't always eat 100% organic or natural/healthy I do understand that the earth is providing for me and that many people have worked to bring me this food. I see the interconnection.

My kids have never starved, but we have gone through some really really tight times with food. Food stamps, food banks, friends helping, etc.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
Absolutely. This is actually one of the values we hold most dear. I think it's because it ties directly into so many other things that we value, like not taking the things we have for granted, being aware that not everyone in the world - even in our community - has full tummies when they go to bed, having a deep respect for the environment and the humane treatment of animals, feeling a personal sense of responsibility for helping others when we can, everyone doing their part to help take care of our family, and so on.

We regularly take our kids to the farms in Lancaster PA where we buy our meat and stock up on this pastured naturally raised fare for our deep freezer. We buy whole broilers, whole roasters, split breasts, and drumsticks from the Stolzfuses. The kids see the animals, they meet the farmers, they see the children helping in the store (the poultry farm is an Amish farm), ds once saw a chicken being slaughtered there. He is 5. We talk a lot about where the meat comes from, how it is raised, how it is killed, and why it is important to do it a certain way. My kids know when they eat a hamburger that it came from a cow, absolutely. Chances are good they've seen the cow. The farm where we get our steaks and ground beef from has the animals on pasture except for maybe Jan-Feb when they're in the barn on the truly frigid days - but the barn is HUGE and they get lots of hay. The kids see them on the pasture. They see them on the farm.

We are going out to Lancaster tomorrow to get eggs from the Stolzfuses, and to drive around and enjoy the countryside.

We shop at a co-op and farmer's markets. The kids know how to shop for food. They have helped me draw up the grocery list since I can remember. I almost never go to the grocery store alone and going alone to the farm markets would be a high crime in my family lol. They know how to pick ripe fruit, etc. We cook together fairly often. They watch the insane amount of work I go through to make sourdough bread the real way, or watch dh fuss over a delicious ham bone soup from the leftovers from Easter and smell it simmering temptingly for a day on the back burner. This year we are expanding our tiny vegetable garden from last year and will be growing various vegetables together as a family project. I swear if I were a better person I would pull my kids out of public school and homeschool them for all the learning opportunities "growing/buying food" has provided them.







It's amazing actually what poring over an heirloom seed catalog, talking about growing conditions, about optimal yields and what we can make with squash and other vegetables my kids look askance at does for their interest in eating it. We are thinking about getting a few backyard chickens for the kids to help raise and gather eggs from, if I can ever get a straight answer about our local ordinances without outing ourselves, lol.

We don't eat strawberries (or any berries for that matter) in January, we don't eat "spring lambs" for Easter dinner, we don't eat salmon in April, we don't eat apples in June, we don't eat green beans in November, and we don't eat citrus food except in the dead of winter, and we don't eat miniature carrots from California... and yes, my kids know EXACTLY why.

Um, so yeah, I'm rambling, but YES this is a big issue for us and YES my children absolutely are developing a passion for real food, and already have a deep connection and understanding of where it all comes from (not to mention what's involved in getting it to the dinner table).

Ummm, would it be rude to invite myself & the fam to dinner at your house one night?







: Because that sounds just lovely, & I fully share your sentiments about children understanding where food comes from, the processes behind manufacturing mass products, who are the people growing the food, etc. etc. I fully support my children developing a passion for food, all kinds of food (whale meat excepted, of course), & my DH & I enjoy sharing all different kinds of food with them both.

Tonight's dinner was much more popular- DH cooked, so it was very popular with me. And tasty, too.







One part of it DD didn't like, another part of it DS didn't like. But because our meals have several components, they both ate several veggies, some protein & a carb source (ie. salad, steak, baked pumpkin, & bread rolls with butter).

And I agree with the comments about hunger- in reality, most of us know very little about true hunger & lack of food resources. I know I sure don't.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Any time!

Okay so this AM we went to the farm for eggs and were told "the girls" were just getting going and not up to full production yet, and the eggs were of course sold out when we got there. Alvin felt so badly he asked us if we'd take a ham instead. I think by April they're as sick of ham as we are of apples/apple products by January.







Anyway... having JUST found a way to finish the Easter leftovers we've got quarts of ham bone soup and somehow we didn't want to offend them so we are now the proud new owners of.... a half ham.







Remind me not to go there in August when they're overrun with zucchini.









ANYWAY... I feel like singing that little song from the book "Bread & Jam for Frances" but set to ham...

_"Ham in the morning
Ham at noon
Ham and ham by the light of the moon
Ham is very..... nice."_










So please, DO come for dinner! And bring some friends!


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

I can't believe how many people have called it "abusive" when having a child skip a meal. That is absolutely ludicrous. It's not as though we're keeping food from them intentionally. We made the food, offered the food. If they refuse, so be it.

And, maybe I'm mean, but the whole letting the child eat something else because "they don't want to" eat what was prepared is so foreign to me. They're children. There are a lot of things a child "doesn't want to do", but it's our job to raise them as responsible, healthy children.

If I ask DD to clean her room and she says no, I don't clean it for her, she still does it. If DS "doesn't want to" go to the dentist, does he get to skip it? No. Same with meal time, imo.

If you ask me, the rude dinner guest (from a prior post) probably grew up in a house where she was over-indulged and never had to do anything she "didn't want to do" so, in her mind, it was acceptable to act that way.

No thanks.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAHDS* 
There are a lot of things a child "doesn't want to do", but it's our job to raise them as responsible, healthy children.

This is the crux of the issue with me. I have been reading this board for a long time, and there are numerous times I've read criticism about "mainstream" parents and the "crap" they let their children eat. I was reading the blog of the author of a book on attachment parenting, and she had an entry where she expressed disgust at the idea of parents who let their children eat chicken nuggets because they say that is all their children will eat. It's the parents fault that it is this way, not the child's. So I am always trying to strike the balance between not being one of those parents, but letting my children have control over the food they eat.

I know some of the people responding on this thread are more of the non-coercive type, and I kind of tend that way myself most days, but I sometimes feel that I am just taking the easy way out, path of least resistance in not trying harder to get my kids to eat healthier foods. It's a real struggle, and I'm to the point now where I feel like just saying to heck with it, hopefully it is something they'll choose to do on her own, at least the 8 year old. But I haven't given up quite yet.

My husband is the type that will not eat food he doesn't like, even if it means he doesn't eat for several days. He refuses dinner invitations because he knows he is such a problem eater. It isn't uncommon to go out somewhere for dinner with him while he sits politely at the table and eats nothing. We went to visit his mother last summer for about 4 or 5 days along with a number of other relatives. He ate one meal about every 2 days. He just disappeared during meal time so it wouldn't be an issue, and there were some meals where she prepared foods that she knew he would eat, so he ate those.

He will leave the room if I am cooking or eating certain foods, because the aroma or even the sight of the food is disgusting to him. I, on the other hand, can eat a plate of food I don't like if I'm hungry or I think it's good for me. Our elder daughter is pretty much like him, and absolutely refuse to eat stuff if she doesn't like the look of it. There are certain foods that just the smell or sight of are enough to drive her from the room also. So yes, there are times when she absolutely hates what I make, even if she's helped decide to make it and I've tailored it to what I know her tastes to be based on other things she's eaten. And she is still hungry, and I offer her foods that are things like cereal or sandwiches and she says no to everything, sometimes saying that those are just snacks, not dinner, or says she's _just not in the mood for that_, I kind of just don't care anymore. My husband, because he goes without eating, feels that skipping meals is normal with a certain level of pickiness.

So I'm not sure what to do, because I don't know how much of hers is _No, I absolutely can't eat this_ and how much is just an over-indulged sense of entitlement to get exactly what she wants to eat when she wants it, even if it means I have to go and buy it for her. She's actually getting better, however, and will eat apples and bananas if she is still hungry after dinner.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Wow, Viola, in my opinion that sounds like a really challenging situation to deal with, & I truly don't know how I would go with it. Again, I do feel lucky that everyone in our family will try different foods. But I will have a think about possible strategies, if you like.

Is it possible that your girls are picking up the pickiness (sorry, no pun intended) from your DH? I can totally understand not wanting kids to go to bed hungry, & I can fully see that some families have totally different feeding patterns to my family. I have to admit, I do worry about the nutrition in highly restrictive diets because I am a bit of a balanced diet fanatic









Do your family's eating habits worry you? I reckon if they do then you should be supported in your efforts to change them. It should never be a coercive thing, that's just a recipe for disaster. I know you know that, of course! just putting that out there as a general idea....


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAHDS* 
It's not as though we're keeping food from them intentionally. We made the food, offered the food. If they refuse, so be it.

 But if an adult wants something else they have the freedom to get it. Some of us think that children should have that same freedom.

Quote:

And, maybe I'm mean, but the whole letting the child eat something else because "they don't want to" eat what was prepared is so foreign to me. They're children. There are a lot of things a child "doesn't want to do", but it's our job to raise them as responsible, healthy children.
 And many of us believe that part of that raising should include respecting them as we would like to be respected all while we do the guiding.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
But if an adult wants something else they have the freedom to get it. Some of us think that children should have that same freedom.

And many of us believe that part of that raising should include respecting them as we would like to be respected all while we do the guiding.




















-Angela


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
But if an adult wants something else they have the freedom to get it. Some of us think that children should have that same freedom.

Not true. When I don't exactly love dinner, I still eat it. I always set the example as to how I'd like them to behave. I would never force my children to eat something they don't like while I skipped out on it for something else. And, taking my other examples. I'd never skip the dentist while 'forcing' DS to go or have a filthy room while 'forcing' DD to have a spotless one. I practice what I preach.

And, I don't believe children should have the same freedoms as adults. I think those freedoms should be earned with age and maturity.

Quote:

And many of us believe that part of that raising should include respecting them as we would like to be respected all while we do the guiding.
I have absolutely no idea what preparing my children for the real world has to do with disrespecting them, but okay. I refuse to coddle my children and give in to their every whim. I've seen it done and I've seen the consequences and I refuse to raise my children that way. I feel that I'm the parent and I will act like the parent, not the 'friend', not 'the cook' and not 'the maid'. I think I actually am respecting them more by helping them by preparing them to be teenagers and then adults. Life lessons aren't easy and I won't give my child the false sense that they are.

If you feel differently, that's fine.

*Viola:* Thank you for that honest post. It is sometimes hard to be consistent while striking a balance. It's definitely not an easy job. Good for you for trying


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## Thursday Girl (Mar 26, 2004)

For the most part they eat what i make or they don't eat. If I have made something new or something i think they might not like they have to try it, if they really don't like it then i will get them something simple. But the rule works for me too, even if I end up not really liking what I cooked (usually it will end up that i just am not in the mood ) I still eat it, and then afterwords if I want something else i get it. If they eat a reasonable portion of their dinner they can have something else, if they don;t eat their dinner and they are hungry later they can have what they didn't eat.

They will eat eventually. I am sympathetic to the whole eating what you feel like thing and that is why my older dd gets to pick out a meal i cook a night or two a week. why i let them help me cook and have a say in what we eat. At the same time they are kids and don't fully know what is nutritious, we talk about it and everything, but I make balanced meals and they aren't going to just get a PB&J every night or noodles with butter b/c it just isn't that healthy every single night. But we haven't really had to many problems. It has always been this way, they always have to try the food. They get to choose their snacks and lunches and their breakfasts. And every once in awhile i even throw in a junky dinner or breakfast. I want them to learn a balanced diet, with a little bit of junk every now and then.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAHDS* 
Not true. When I don't exactly love dinner, I still eat it. I always set the example as to how I'd like them to behave. I would never force my children to eat something they don't like while I skipped out on it for something else. And, taking my other examples. I'd never skip the dentist while 'forcing' DS to go or have a filthy room while 'forcing' DD to have a spotless one. I practice what I preach.

 You may not, but you _COULD_. No one is going to prevent you from getting a sandwich instead of having dinner. No one is going to say that you can either eat dinner or eat nothing until the next meal is served. Being an adult means you have the freedom to make those choices.

Being a role model is great. I try to live what I believe too.

Quote:

And, I don't believe children should have the same freedoms as adults. I think those freedoms should be earned with age and maturity.
 Well, that's our impasse I guess.







I don't think that being able to say _"I don't want to eat that. I'd like to eat toast instead."_ is a freedom that should have to be earned or based on some level of maturity.

Quote:

I refuse to coddle my children and give in to their every whim. I've seen it done and I've seen the consequences and I refuse to raise my children that way. I feel that I'm the parent and I will act like the parent, not the 'friend', not 'the cook' and not 'the maid'. I think I actually am respecting them more by helping them by preparing them to be teenagers and then adults. Life lessons aren't easy and I won't give my child the false sense that they are.

If you feel differently, that's fine.
 Oh I do.

I don't think allowing a child control over not eating something is coddling or giving in to their every whim. I feel like food is a very personal issue, and that my children are due the same respect an adult is over what they put into their mouths.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Quote:

I don't think allowing a child control over not eating something is coddling or giving in to their every whim. I feel like food is a very personal issue, and that my children are due the same respect an adult is over what they put into their mouths.








Well said!!


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
I don't think that being able to say _"I don't want to eat that. I'd like to eat toast instead."_ is a freedom that should have to be earned or based on some level of maturity.

Okay, once again I'm going to push back and just challenge this. I can honestly say I have NEVER done this. (except when sick, but I've already said as have others we're not talking about sick kids here)

I can literally not fathom a situation in which we would have purchased food with money we work hard to make, accepting the fruits of the labors of the farmers much less the animals themselves - both of whom we are likely to KNOW personally especially if its meat - my husband goes to the effort of planning a meal, works hard to prepare it, cooks it deliciously and then serves it for dinner... and I say, 'eh, no thanks I'll have toast.'

WTF???

So once again I'm just going to say that we are all acting like to be a grown-up means you get to ignore where food comes from, you get to ignore the money that goes into growing, transporting, and buying it, you get to ignore the hard work to prepare it just because you don't love peas or turkey or you know what just _feel like_ some toast for dinner. I call serious b.s. on this notion and would like to meet the adult who acts like this on a regular basis... actually, scratch that, I really wouldn't.

And why would I EVER want to raise my children to think they can decline such effort and such labor and such work for their own personal whims. SO not my value system.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

No, but being a grown up means YOU get to choose which food you purchase, cook and eat. There is nothing unethical about choosing food you actually want to eat, and I think it's offensive to indicate otherwise. I eat food I want every day, I do not eat food I don't want. Same goes for my child.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
I can literally not fathom a situation in which we would have purchased food with money we work hard to make, accepting the fruits of the labors of the farmers much less the animals themselves - both of whom we are likely to KNOW personally especially if its meat - my husband goes to the effort of planning a meal, works hard to prepare it, cooks it deliciously and then serves it for dinner... and I say, 'eh, no thanks I'll have toast.'

WTF???

So once again I'm just going to say that we are all acting like to be a grown-up means you get to ignore where food comes from, you get to ignore the money that goes into growing, transporting, and buying it, you get to ignore the hard work to prepare it just because you don't love peas or turkey or you know what just _feel like_ some toast for dinner. I call serious b.s. on this notion and would like to meet the adult who acts like this on a regular basis... actually, scratch that, I really wouldn't.

And why would I EVER want to raise my children to think they can decline such effort and such labor and such work for their own personal whims. SO not my value system.

ya know what? While I wouldn't do exactly what you've described, plenty of times dh has offered to cook something and I've said- eh, don't really feel like that. And we've done something else for dinner.

And once in while he cooks something that sounded good, but when done is NOT what I expected or just really not great. And then ya know what? After I try it and discover that, I have no problem saying that it wasn't what I expected and getting something else for dinner. Heck- I've done it with stuff *I've* cooked before.

-Angela


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
No, but being a grown up means YOU get to choose which food you purchase, cook and eat. There is nothing unethical about choosing food you actually want to eat, and I think it's offensive to indicate otherwise. I eat food I want every day, I do not eat food I don't want. Same goes for my child.

My kids also are deeply involved in which food we purchase, cook, and eat. That's probably important background info.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
My kids also are deeply involved in which food we purchase, cook, and eat. That's probably important background info.

So are you saying they get equal choice in what you cook? Because if you are what you are saying is not so far off from what I have been saying. I ask my child, would you like xyz? If she says yes, I cook it and I expect her to eat it. But I don't just cook xyz and offer no alternative.


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

Like I've said before, we make monthly menus as a family, so everything is ironed out from the get go. I know what my children like, I know what they don't care for and I know that peas make my daughter gag and dry-heave. So, you can bet that the first 2 groups will still be on there. I won't force my daughter to eat peas, though. However, she doesn't care for broccoli but she will eat it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
You may not, but you COULD. No one is going to prevent you from getting a sandwich instead of having dinner. No one is going to say that you can either eat dinner or eat nothing until the next meal is served. Being an adult means you have the freedom to make those choices.

Well, that's silly. I *could* do a lot of things. What my point was is that I don't. I follow the same guidelines and rules that I expect from my children. It's why I also don't curse in front of them, never drink (not even wine), follow the laws, say please and thank you, keep a spotless house, etc. etc. etc.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
Well, that's our impasse I guess. I don't think that being able to say "I don't want to eat that. I'd like to eat toast instead." is a freedom that should have to be earned or based on some level of maturity.

And I do. A child doesn't know the ins and outs of nutrition. They don't know fats, fiber, vitamins, minerals, etc. If I let my children choose what they wanted to eat, we'd probably end up with pizza, steak and hamburgers for the rest of our lives. Not gonna happen. Until they are old enough to realize exactly what they are putting in their body, and the repercussions of doing so, I will decide what I know is best for them.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
I don't think allowing a child control over not eating something is coddling or giving in to their every whim. I feel like food is a very personal issue, and that my children are due the same respect an adult is over what they put into their mouths.

I'm sure my cousin would agree. She is a mother of 4 and, literally, makes each of them a different meal at breakfast, lunch and dinner; 16 meals if you count snacks. IMO, she's setting the example that they get what they want no matter what. And, trust me, I've seen it with my own eyes how they behave - yikes. I set limits, boundaries and expectations. For me, this is a crucial part of parenting.

Anyhoo, I doubt we'll agree, which is fine. I've said my piece


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
My kids also are deeply involved in which food we purchase, cook, and eat. That's probably important background info.

And that's extremely important, I agree.









I still think that after all the choosing, growing, mindful purchasing and preparing that a person (and kids are people too lol) still has the right to say _"No thank you. I'm not really up for this right now."_

And like I mentioned before, I would be confused if my child asked me to make potato soup for dinner and then later said they didn't want any. I might ask them about it, but I wouldn't require them to eat it or go hungry if they didn't. That route, IMO, would be more damaging to my child and our relationship, than my making a soup it turns out they didn't really want. (And chances our someone else would eat it so....)


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## 425lisamarie (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
And that's extremely important, I agree.









I still think that after all the choosing, growing, mindful purchasing and preparing that a person (and kids are people too lol) still has the right to say _"No thank you. I'm not really up for this right now."_

And like I mentioned before, I would be confused if my child asked me to make potato soup for dinner and then later said they didn't want any. I might ask them about it, but I wouldn't require them to eat it or go hungry if they didn't. That route, IMO, would be more damaging to my child and our relationship, than my making a soup it turns out they didn't really want. (And chances our someone else would eat it so....)

I've sort of followed this thread, and I really agree with you, Alegna and thismama

This is such a touchy subject for me! I can understand the importance of children being involved in the entrie aspect of where food comes from and the labor intesnsity. But really, I guess I just don't think it's my very young child's need to know things like the fact that they could starve if we didn't have any money, and so on. IF we were poor enough to struggle buying food, you'd better believe my kids would have NO knowledge. We would do our damndest to make sure they did ot have to worry about such absolute adult issues.

Kids are totally not the same. These days are not the same. It's a totally different story talking about "early people" and pre-mass farming, etc. There was no such thing as smelling a hamburger or tasting candy at a friends house. There was no other food around to ask for!

I don't involve myself in a labor intesnsive meal I have no idea my kids will love and then put that kidn of pressure on them to eat it because "I went through all this trouble." Isn't that kind of controling?

i'm sure there are kids who are absolutely impossible to please every minute of the day, at every meal. I'm sure with those you have to find some middle ground, or manipulating way to get them to realize you cannot cook one thousand different things in a day.

My kids eat so well. Really I am very lucky. But actually maybe they are also lucky to have a mom who caters to each individula taste. I really don't think it is that difficult. I have several dishes that look different for one of the kids or I or DH that came from basically the same thing. such as homemade tomato soup. I make very good tomato soup, but DS doesn't like it. Well, so what. It's the veggie for the night so I cook up a handful of little pasta shapes and throw them in it and fresh grate some parm reggiano cheese a there you go, a whole nother meal with 30 seconds extra effort.

I geuss I'm just really trying to udnerstand how very small children and their aversion to foods or pickiness is going to dictate how they are as adults. I would venture to think the more control you try to hold over them with ANYTHING would create more aversions later in life.


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## Jyotsna (Sep 24, 2004)

My kids always eat what I make, but I have one childe who is very picky, and very thin. She will scoop, push, mix or whatever with the spoon, and then when dinner is over, she will start crying that she is hungry, when she has food on her plate. Several times I allowed her to have a slice of bread, or a peice of fruit (something that wasn't served with the meal) but she learned very quickly that she didn't have to eat any of the food that I made. She has two foods that I can beat she will eat. Cheese quesadilla, and grilled cheese. ARGH!

She likes starches more than anything. But she will eat fruit almost anytime. She's just very picky. So I ask her to eat 4 bites of the food before she gives up, so I know she has gone to bed with some food in her tummy, and so she won't be naseous.

She's a challenge, and I try to offer things she likes, so we don't get into a head strong problem.


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