# Feeling so sorry for men today -- Vent



## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

We took our girls to our local waterpark this afternoon, and dh went to use the restroom. He had to use the one and only stall in the men's room, and a little boy came in who apparently needed to use the stall, too, so he just stood outside the stall waiting for dh to come out (the stall door was closed, of course).

And of course the boy's mom was waiting outside, periodically calling in to ask her son if he was okay -- which dh understood perfectly. He and our older dd have gone on a couple of outings together where she needed to use a public restroom, but he felt she was too old for him to take her with him into the men's room so, like this mom, he'd waited outside the door --

And he'd also told her before she went in that if anyone tried to bother her, to yell for him really loud, and I'm sure if she'd taken a long time, he would've been calling in to ask if she was okay, just like this little boy's mom was doing ...

And the child was answering back that he was fine, so what the mother did when dh came out of the restroom is just inexcusable. Dh comes out (he was the only other person in the restroom, okay?), and this mom yells in there loudly, "Are you OKAY? Did somebody TOUCH you?!"

And the little boy called back "No" (as in no, nobody touched me), which of course was a good thing. But her loudly shouting this was so humiliating to my dh. There were all these people sitting in the picnic area outside the restroom, who looked up and stared at him when the mom said this.

It made him so uncomfortable he wanted to leave the park right away. Which was okay as it had started raining and we would've gone soon anyway.

Anyhow, I'm not trying to make a huge deal over what happened -- but this incident has really driven home to me how weird some people are about suspecting "all" men of being child molesters.

I mean, seriously, if you feel you can't trust your child to know whether or not he's okay in a public restroom -- I mean, if you actually think your child is mixed up enough that he'd be saying, "Yeah, mom, I'm okay," while some strange man was molesting him -- then, seriously, you need to still be taking him into the ladies' room with you. Right?

That's what I'd do if I couldn't trust my child. I mean, dh said the boy looked to be about 8, so I can imagine a boy that age would be embarrassed to have to go to the ladies room -- and of course I think most 8yo's are capable of "knowing" whether they're okay or not.

But since this mother apparently felt a need to get more specific and loudly ask if her son had been "touched" -- maybe he just can't be trusted in the restroom alone, right? Or if SHE'S the one with the prob, maybe she just needs to go with him into the men's room and humiliate herself, rather than humiliating her son by dragging him to the ladies room.

Whether she decides to humiliate herself or her son or both of them -- either of these scenarios would be better than sending him on his own to the men's room, and then humiliating some innocent man who just happened to need to use the restroom a few minutes before her son needed to.

I know, I need to let it go -- but I just thought I'd get the word out to any moms out there who may be paranoid like this mom: This is seriously NOT COOL. Men are going to have to use the restroom, they are people too. You need to find some way to protect your child, that both you and he are comfortable with. And not treat men like criminals for needing to use the restroom.

Okay, vent over. Thanks for listening!


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Yes I hear you on this! I was raised that way- "all men are just out to get ya" type thing. I was also molested so for a long time I did feel that way







But I do believe you are right- I see that mentality a lot and I even still catch myself eying men in that way.


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## Barefoot~Baker (Dec 25, 2008)

Oh your poor dh! How embarrassing for him. The mother was obviously worried but she had such poor choice of words


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Weird. If I was that worried about DS I would ask someone to escort him or I would make sure the women's restroom was empty and let him go there. Unless he has special medical needs, an 8yo probably isn't going to wet his pants right on the spot.


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## spicyrock (Apr 11, 2009)

That woman sounds a little nutty. The fact that she probably has some issues of her own doesn't excuse how rude she was to your dh... the (awesome) man in my life is quite sensitive and would be very hurt and offended if someone treated him that way. What an embarrassing situation... sheesh, I'm sorry for your dh, op


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

Men feel it all too- this "people are watching and suspecting". My dh took my 4 yr old son to our local playground and was helping him on the monkey bars. A few girls came along (he guessed they were about 8) in bikinis and shorts from playing in the sprinklers. One asked dh to help her on the monkey bars too. My dh was kind of terrified to touch her to help her (she asked him "Help me a little too?" because obviously he was helping my son and they were having a good time and she wanted to join in and needed a hand). He kind of pretended like it was not a big deal (a little help from a Daddy playing on the monkey bars *shouldn't* be) but he said he was terrified someone was going to "think something" or she was going to "say something" and he moved away from the monkey bars after out of the fear that a little girl was going to ask him for a boost on the jungle gym. What a world we live in! I'm not sure which is worse. That people that really do "touch" kids or that we all spend so much emotional energy every day in public spaces living in fear of them or being accused of it.


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

Ummm...just deriving this from my own childhood here (which was a long time ago), but isn't eight old enough to go to the restroom without parental supervision? I guess that is what I find the most creepy about this story.

Were I your husband I certainly would have had words with that crazy lady.


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## sunnymw (Feb 28, 2007)

I think it's sad that as a whole society we've gotten to this point. BIL won't even bathe his daughters because he's afraid of the stigma that would come along with it.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnymw* 
I think it's sad that as a whole society we've gotten to this point. BIL won't even bathe his daughters because he's afraid of the stigma that would come along with it.









We have kids at the daycare I work at too. The little girls say daddy never bathes them- only mommy does. I can only imagine why...


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

It's too bad there wasn't a family restroom. I don't think I would have felt comfortable sending my DS in there alone either but her comment was just plain weird.

Sorry your DH was embarrassed.


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## Belia (Dec 22, 2007)

I agree with you- if that mom didn't trust her son's ability to handle himself in the restroom, or trust that he would be safe from harm while away from her, then she shouldn't have let him use the restroom by himself. Take the boy into the ladies room... or go into the mens room with him... whatever.

But don't try to have it both ways by allowing him to go by himself and then make wild accusations about an innocent bystander without any reason.

I worked at a rape crisis center for 4 years, so I've heard it all and am probably more paranoid than most!! And I would still NEVER say anything like that without a darn good reason.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I feel bad for your DH, that must have been humiliating.

On the other hand, while graceless, I guess I can understand the mom's reaction (especially if she doesn't have much of a brain-to-mouth editor) if after her son had been in the restroom for an unusual amount of time, an adult man walked out and she wasn't expecting it.

After all, an amusement park/waterpark/chuck-e-cheese bathroom type place is what hits the news when a kid is molested there.

This is an uncomfortable fine line for me, as a mom to sons, a partner to a male co-parent. I do feel a lot of anger and protectiveness when people look at DH like he doesn't belong at the playground or when I hear people talking about ALL boys as potential rapists. On the other hand, we are so bombarded with the message to fear all strange males (and NOT totally without reason, IMO, it's almost primal), while I am disappointed when people act that way, I'm not surprised.

I would fret about my 8 year old son using a public amusement park (I put waterparks in the same category, I'm assuming it's like Wild Waves or soemthing?) restroom too, especially if he was in there for a loooooooong time. I don't think I would have said what she said out loud unless I got a feeling in my gut (so I would know to grab the guy before he got away). And on a purely selfish level, while I would feel bad about being wrong, I'd rather feel bad later than be silent during the wrong time, I guess.


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## camracrazy (May 27, 2006)

While I get why the OP's husband was embarrassed by the woman's actions, I don't get why everyone is commenting on the boy's age and his "ability" to use the restroom safety by himself. Of course HE can use the restroom appropriately, but you also never know who else might be in there.

This boy was 8 and was attacked in a Wal Mart restroom:

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/stori...bb8be.html?npc

This boy was 7 and attaked in a restroom right above a police station:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_613097.html

This boy was 11 and attacked in the restroom at a park:

http://wgns.wordpress.com/2008/05/27...ntennial-park/

This boy was 15 and attacked in the restroom of a public park:

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2..._restroom.html

So really, it has nothing to do with the age and ability of the kid or whether they can be "trusted", but the fact that there are sick monsters out there. It sounds like the mom got worried because he was taking so long and just said something out of anxiety without thinking about how it would sound to your DH and the other people standing there.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

It's not so much trusting the 8 year olds ability to protect himself as much as it is trusting an 8 year olds ability to reply truthfully when asked if everything is ok...

Even if she is overly paranoid and thinks that despite being told repeatedly by her son that he was fine, a strange man coming out of the bathroom doesn't automatically mean he's a predator nor does it mean that her son's anything but fine.

I feel for the Op's DH. I doubt I would have handled it so well, I would have probably said something to her that was just as rude...


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## Inci (Apr 22, 2005)

OP, I'm sorry this happened to your DH! It must feel awful to have people overhear a stranger loudly asking her child if you molested him.

At the same time, I don't think the woman is "crazy," "nutty," and "weird." She herself may have been a survivor of sexual abuse, since at least 1 in 6 women either have been or will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime.

I think it would be great if everyone petitioned to get family restrooms in these businesses that don't currently have them!

I sympathize with the kind and caring men who are tired of men as a whole being perceived as potential abusers. My suggestion for them is to join the activist movement against male violence against women and children. Men need to join together and create activist/educational groups - with and for other men - about deconstructing male privilege, redefining masculinity, and ending patriarchy (which rape and sexual abuse are components of).
Men have incredible power to help stop rape & abuse, and I have such respect for the men who give their time and energy to this work. Google "Men can stop rape" - I can't remember if the UA allows us to post links!


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## hibiscus mum (Apr 6, 2009)

I'm so sorry that happened to your husband. That would've really stung mh DH too.

When DD was around 18 months old, me and DH took her to a local pool and we all got ready together in the family change room. DH wasn't quite ready yet, and DD was fussing, so I just took her out to the pool so we wouldn't have to wait for him. WHen he came out to the pool he was really mad at me for not waiting for him. I explained that DD was fussing and it didn't make sense for us to hang around while she had a meltdown. He was afraid to be seen in the family changeroom without a kid - thought surely someone would think he was a pervert.


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## jennlyn (Jul 15, 2007)

delete


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## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

I feel bad for men, when my family found out DH coslept with DDs they really freaked. I was so embarrassed and hacked off (but get this, when I told my Dad that my brother had sexually assaulted me it was all kept hush, hush, only him and my mum know, the brother is now dead (I hasten to add, through an accident)).

Anyway, I think men are unfairly labelled, women are just as capable (as seen in England recently with the nursery thing), I just don't think they are caught out as much.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Given that this forum fairly recently had a long, mulitpage, contentious thread in which several posters declared that all males were potential child molesters, simply by virtue of being male, I certainly don't find this incident surprising.

To accuse someone of molesting your child because he - gasp! - walked out of a men's room is excessively paranoid, IMO. Who else would be walking out of a men's room? Penguins? No of course not. Men use the men's room.

If she was genuinely that concerned, why not just go IN the men's room and check it out? Or why not ask the obvious question "Why is it taking you so long?" Then the kid might have answered "I'm waiting for the stall." Continuing to ask "Are you okay?" is going to elicit a yes/no response.


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## Multimomma (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *camracrazy* 
While I get why the OP's husband was embarrassed by the woman's actions, I don't get why everyone is commenting on the boy's age and his "ability" to use the restroom safety by himself. Of course HE can use the restroom appropriately, but you also never know who else might be in there.
<snip the sad links>
So really, it has nothing to do with the age and ability of the kid or whether they can be "trusted", but the fact that there are sick monsters out there. It sounds like the mom got worried because he was taking so long and just said something out of anxiety without thinking about how it would sound to your DH and the other people standing there.









:

Camra, that's exactly what I was going to post. Churn, as well. I also recently read a post about how eight years old was too old to go in the women's bathroom...with several posts about how uncomfortable mdc moms were with an older boy in the women's bathroom.

Sorry, but that woman didn't know your husband. She made a parenting choice, didn't know he was in there until he walked out, and was reacting the best she knew how. Your husband decided to feel embarrassed, we own our feelings, and as Eleanor Roosevelt said, "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent".


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

This thread really freaks me out. I don't want to raise my kids in a world with this level of fear and paranoia! Seriously...maybe I'm just horomonal because I'm way too pregnant, but I cannot see how this lady's actions were acceptable on any level.

1. Not all men are perverts and to see them as such is an illness.
2. Eight year olds should be able to take care of business on their own!

Yes this lady made a parenting choice, but rudeness based on paranoia should not become mainstream and accepted. Nor should seeing a molestor around every corner. There comes a point where "better safe than sorry" is simply not true.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Multimomma* 







:

Camra, that's exactly what I was going to post. Churn, as well. I also recently read a post about how eight years old was too old to go in the women's bathroom...with several posts about how uncomfortable mdc moms were with an older boy in the women's bathroom.

Sorry, but that woman didn't know your husband. She made a parenting choice, didn't know he was in there until he walked out, and was reacting the best she knew how. Your husband decided to feel embarrassed, we own our feelings, and as Eleanor Roosevelt said, "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent".

I think you may have misread my post. I don't think the woman behaved reasonably at all.

And I don't think the husband "decided" to feel embarrassed. If someone loudly accused me of touching their child inappropriately, I'd be horrified, and it wouldn't be something I'd even have time to "choose" about.

My son is ten and he has used the men's room alone for at least 3 years. If I think he is taking too long I say "why are you taking so long". I don't stand in front of the door accusing everyone who walks out of touching him.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I am very sorry to hear about all the children who've been assaulted in public restrooms. And of course I wasn't saying that I wouldn't be concerned if my child had been in there a long time. I'm sure that I'd be calling in to see if he was okay, just as this mom was.

But I guess in my case, by the time a child is old enough to use a public restroom on her own, she's old enough to know if she's okay or not. By this age a child should know about private body parts, and know it's not okay for someone to molest them.

So I guess I'd trust my child's "I'm okay" more than this mom trusted her son's.

I think family bathrooms are a great idea.


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## TheBluebird (Dec 20, 2006)

That woman's comment was completely inappropriate. Yes, attacks happen, you don't have to tell me. But loudly asking your child, "Did anyone TOUCH you?" when there's only 1 other person around that she could be talking about is uncalled for. If I had been the OP's husband, that woman and I would have had some words.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

That is awful for your dh


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

I personally feel like ALL public places should have a family bathroom. At one point our state was considering making it a law. Most large stores have one, but a place like a water park or amusement park where families are should _definitely_ have one available to families.


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## dido1 (Aug 12, 2004)

As a mother of a son and wife of a man, I am HORRIFIED that people not only look at my husband as a potential molest, but at my minor SON as a potential rapist/molester. I think this is a result of too much media reporting of incidents and a way out of control paranoia culture.

Bad things happen. There is very, very little we can do about that except to teach our children to know and feel ownership over their body and all it's parts. To teach them to trust their instincts and not to be afraid to say no to anyone, grown ups or not. That should be our focus, not demonizing men and boys. Viewing all men and boys as abusers is just...wrong and sexist. Thousands of children are molested by women, and do we worry about all the females in our children's lives?

That woman, whether consciously or not, was perpetuating the hysteria. If she needs therapy, she should get it, not just randomly accuse men walking out of the men's washroom of abusing her son (which she did by implication, IMO).


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

As far as my husband "deciding" to get embarrassed -- what if the child had impishly-decided to say "Yeah, that man was touching me," just to see how his obviously worked-up mom (and the men in their group) would react?

I'm not saying most children would do such a ghastly thing, and I definitely believe in taking a child seriously if they say they've been molested -- but to be in my dh's shoes, and realize how precariously-balanced your safety is, as well as your reputation and your ability to stay with and raise your own family --

I mean, supposing the kid WAS the sort to see what reaction he could get -- my dh could "decide" all he wanted that he wasn't going to be embarrassed since HE KNEW he hadn't done anything wrong, my husband could "decide" he was just going to go home with us and have a nice life with his wife and his two young daughters -- but would the legal authorities honor dh's "decision" that he wasn't going to let his life get turned upside down by some false accusation --

Or would they proceed with their investigation and go ahead and turn our lives upside down irregardless of our "decision" not to be affected by it?


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnymw* 
I think it's sad that as a whole society we've gotten to this point. BIL won't even bathe his daughters because he's afraid of the stigma that would come along with it.









Are you sure it's not just an excuse not to bathe or change them? My DH used that excuse for years... then we had a son and he still tries to use it. We have been married long enough now that I tell him to suck it up and give them a bath/change diaper once in awhile.

It is sad however that we live in a world where that excuse to not help parent can be seen as legitimate.

To the OP, what that woman did was completely uncalled for. My son is only 2 but I would like to think that I wont have to fear him being molested in the bathroom while I am standing outside door yelling, "Are you OK?" and he answers yes.


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## Swandira (Jun 26, 2005)

I'm sorry for the OP's DH, and also for the little boy. Surely he was embarrassed by his mom's loud insinuations too -- possibly more so than the grownup man in question!

I'm also a little sorry for the mom who was so fearful that she was behaving in this wildly inappropriate way, although if her fears are that extreme I think maybe she should be seeing a counselor, if she isn't already doing that.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Are you sure it's not just an excuse not to bathe or change them? My DH used that excuse for years... then we had a son and he still tries to use it. We have been married long enough now that I tell him to suck it up and give them a bath/change diaper once in awhile.

It is sad however that we live in a world where that excuse to not help parent can be seen as legitimate.


This exact reason for not bathing young children by the father has been posted by more than a few members here on numerous threads so I highly doubt that they all are using it as an excuse to not help at home.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
This exact reason for not bathing young children by the father has been posted by more than a few members here on numerous threads so I highly doubt that they all are using it as an excuse to not help at home.

I am sorry, but in my opinion it is an excuse.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:

Your husband decided to feel embarrassed, we own our feelings, and as Eleanor Roosevelt said, "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent".
Well with this mindset I suppose those hit with racism or sexism or ageism decided to feel beat down.

I get that we decide how to feel the way we feel but this is to an extent. I surely didn't decide to feel traumatized over my latest birth no matter how badly some try and use the above mindset to say that I did. The only thing this sort of stance does is excuse other's often times bigoted actions. No thanks.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I am sorry, but in my opinion it is an excuse.

Sure in some cases but can we ever really afford to be so general? I know my DH still bathes and changes all of our girls but we are both nervous as to how others will view it because we have known people who have questioned why we think that is appropriate.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl* 
This thread really freaks me out. *I don't want to raise my kids in a world with this level of fear and paranoia!* Seriously...maybe I'm just horomonal because I'm way too pregnant, but I cannot see how this lady's actions were acceptable on any level.

1. Not all men are perverts and to see them as such is an illness.
2. Eight year olds should be able to take care of business on their own!

Yes this lady made a parenting choice, but rudeness based on paranoia should not become mainstream and accepted. Nor should seeing a molestor around every corner. There comes a point where "better safe than sorry" is simply not true.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I am very sorry to hear about all the children who've been assaulted in public restrooms. And of course I wasn't saying that I wouldn't be concerned if my child had been in there a long time. I'm sure that I'd be calling in to see if he was okay, just as this mom was.
*
But I guess in my case, by the time a child is old enough to use a public restroom on her own, she's old enough to know if she's okay or not. By this age a child should know about private body parts, and know it's not okay for someone to molest them.

So I guess I'd trust my child's "I'm okay" more than this mom trusted her son's.*

I think family bathrooms are a great idea.









:

And we do need family bathrooms I totally agree.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 







:

And we do need family bathrooms I totally agree.


Absolutely. After reading some of the more controversial threads here in the past I can completely understand why a dad would want to avoid going to the bathroom/bathing/changing a diaper on a young daughter. I feel for my husband getting strange looks while waiting for our daughters in the women's restroom - damned if he takes them with him into the men's room and damned if he stands near the door of the women's room waiting for them to finish.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
Sure in some cases but can we ever really afford to be so general? I know my DH still bathes and changes all of our girls but we are both nervous as to how others will view it because we have known people who have questioned why we think that is appropriate.

Yes we can. It's an excuse plain and simple. And becuase mom's let dad's use it as an excuse it has become more "legitimate." I mean really, who in their right mind is going to think a dad who is changing his infant or toddler child's diaper is only doing it to get some perverted thrill? Yet if this same dad let the child sit in their dirty diaper til mom got home, it would be seen as abuse.

I do think a line needs to be drawn at bathing. For both mom's and dad's. I am not sure what that age is. Six, seven? But I really think it is rediculous that people will use this as an excuse to keep dads/let let dads get out of helping with the basic care of their children. Especially those younger than 5.

ETA: Wait, aren't your children REALLY young? There is no excuse for anyone to question your husband helping care for his children. Sure if your daughters were 10 I could see if.. but if you are who I am thinking you are.. they are all 5 or younger.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I mean really, who in their right mind is going to think a dad who is changing his infant or toddler child's diaper is only doing it to get some perverted thrill?

Then obvoiusly you have missed a few volatile threads here because sadly there are most certainly people who believe exactly what you stated above.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Yes we can. It's an excuse plain and simple. And becuase mom's let dad's use it as an excuse it has become more "legitimate." I mean really, who in their right mind is going to think a dad who is changing his infant or toddler child's diaper is only doing it to get some perverted thrill? Yet if this same dad let the child sit in their dirty diaper til mom got home, it would be seen as abuse.

I do think a line needs to be drawn at bathing. For both mom's and dad's. I am not sure what that age is. Six, seven? But I really think it is rediculous that people will use this as an excuse to keep dads/let let dads get out of helping with the basic care of their children. Especially those younger than 5.

ETA: Wait, aren't your children REALLY young? There is no excuse for anyone to question your husband helping care for his children. Sure if your daughters were 10 I could see if.. but if you are who I am thinking you are.. they are all 5 or younger.

So you are saying it's always an excuse no exception? Like I said I think we can't generalize things that easily. And yes people have and do view the changing of a diaper as a sex thrill for men. Have you ever seen those diaper fetish sites? uke These days there are more than a few people who see crap like that and then think men=diaper fetishist or some such thing.

As I said in my PP people have questioned whether or not it was appropriate for my DH to bathe with, bathe, or change our daughters. It's not really all that uncommon nowadays.

ETA- I just saw your ETA







Tell me about it! But yeah they have. Not in a freak out "he is molesting your kids!" way but in a "do you really think that is appropriate?" way.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
Then obvoiusly you have missed a few volatile threads here because sadly there are most certainly people who believe exactly what you stated above.

I guess I have missed them. And you know what? That is their problem not mine or my husbands. It is my husbands job to help care for his children's needs. If that includes bathing a child covered in mud or changing a poopy diaper so be it. I am not going to live my life being scared of other peoples rediculous and perverted opinions. Furthermore I am not going to make more work for myself by trying to do everything at once because someone else might unrealistically feel it is inappropriate for Dad to do his part.

If we don't let Dad's use this as an excuse not to care for their children, then people would see how normal it is and shut their mouths. But because it is allowed to be used as an excuse, it justifies the tongue waggers to talk. I mean he wouldn't be "afraid" if he wasn't doing anything wrong. Ya know?


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

Don't you think that a situation where people questioned the appropriateness of male care would be an opportunity to educate those people? I would want to let them know that its their view of the situation that is inappropriate and sick...not the situation itself. Why would you change family behavior because of someone else's fear or disapproval?


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
So you are saying it's always an excuse no exception? Like I said I think we can't generalize things that easily. And yes people have and do view the changing of a diaper as a sex thrill for men. Have you ever seen those diaper fetish sites? uke These days there are more than a few people who see crap like that and then think men=diaper fetishist or some such thing.

As I said in my PP people have questioned whether or not it was appropriate for my DH to bathe with, bathe, or change our daughters. It's not really all that uncommon nowadays.

ETA- I just saw your ETA







Tell me about it! But yeah they have. Not in a freak out "he is molesting your kids!" way but in a "do you really think that is appropriate?" way.

Seriously, I have never run into other people questioning DH helping with the kids. Just DH saying that if he does help he will get accused of molesting them. Nope..sorry, try again.

Seriously, I am sick of everyone in society treating everyone else like they are up to no good. The only way to stop it is to stand up and not allow them to do so. Just becuase other people question the appropriateness of a dad bathing his young girls doesn't mean it is not appropriate. It doesn't mean he will get arrested or for changing his child's diaper either. It is just people with nothing better to do going on at the mouth. The only way to stop it is to stand up and NOT LET THEM dictate how you care for your children. Just ignore them, they aren't anything to you.

Now my DH's mom used to barge in the bathroom to "wash his hair" until he was 14. This I believe was abuse and inappropriate. DH didn't want her in there. But you know.. no one questioned this. Why do we question a Dad caring for a very young daughter? This society is insane.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chamomile girl* 
don't you think that a situation where people questioned the appropriateness of male care would be an opportunity to educate those people? I would want to let them know that its their view of the situation that is inappropriate and sick...not the situation itself. Why would you change family behavior because of someone else's fear or disapproval?

exactly!


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I guess I have missed them. And you know what? That is their problem not mine or my husbands. It is my husbands job to help care for his children's needs. If that includes bathing a child covered in mud or changing a poopy diaper so be it. I am not going to live my life being scared of other peoples rediculous and perverted opinions. Furthermore I am not going to make more work for myself by trying to do everything at once because someone else might unrealistically feel it is inappropriate for Dad to do his part.

If we don't let Dad's use this as an excuse not to care for their children, then people would see how normal it is and shut their mouths. But because it is allowed to be used as an excuse, it justifies the tongue waggers to talk. I mean he wouldn't be "afraid" if he wasn't doing anything wrong. Ya know?

I do agree with this. My husband and I are actually talking about this right now and yeah he feels skiddish and worries what others will think if say our 5 year old goes up to them and says "my daddy gave me a bath today" but he still does it because, well, they're his kids. Still, I can fully understand that fear and deciding not to even go there. It's one thing to say we should all stand up but in actual practice it can mean some really bad things like our husbands being accused of things that are going to follow them for the rest of their lives.

Beyond that another fear is that our kids will grow up and one day be told "it was wrong of your father to bathe you/change you/etc" and our own children might feel they need to question their relationship w/their father as the idea was put into their head. I have seen this happen once with a friend when we were kids and she was just so confused by the whole thing. Looking back I can't imagine what she was feeling (I have no father in my life. Never have).

OT- But does this thread scream "Happy Father's Day!" or what


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl* 
Don't you think that a situation where people questioned the appropriateness of male care would be an opportunity to educate those people? I would want to let them know that its their view of the situation that is inappropriate and sick...not the situation itself. Why would you change family behavior because of someone else's fear or disapproval?

I kind of answered this in the above without realizing it was asked but yes I do agree. Still I see where there is a real fear there and I can understand people just not wanting to risk it. I guess this is just another "As for me and my house..." thing. We don't let it change how we treat our girlies.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl* 
Don't you think that a situation where people questioned the appropriateness of male care would be an opportunity to educate those people? I would want to let them know that its their view of the situation that is inappropriate and sick...not the situation itself. Why would you change family behavior because of someone else's fear or disapproval?

I agree. My husband personally has not changed his behavior with our girls because of the attitudes of others but, having read some unbelievable threads here, it is apparent to me that there are people who do not want to be educated beyond what they believe.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Somehow I missed this post...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
*Seriously, I am sick of everyone in society treating everyone else like they are up to no good.* The only way to stop it is to stand up and not allow them to do so. Just becuase other people question the appropriateness of a dad bathing his young girls doesn't mean it is not appropriate. It doesn't mean he will get arrested or for changing his child's diaper either. It is just people with nothing better to do going on at the mouth. The only way to stop it is to stand up and NOT LET THEM dictate how you care for your children. Just ignore them, they aren't anything to you.











Quote:

Now my DH's mom used to barge in the bathroom to "wash his hair" until he was 14. This I believe was abuse and inappropriate. DH didn't want her in there. But you know.. no one questioned this.
Two thoughts on this- it's another thing I can't stand about our society (and it was illustrated in the OP) the coddling of our older kids and teens. It does such a disservice to them, IMO, and also that when a mom does it it's just fine but when a dad does it he's overbearing and abusive- maybe even sexually so.

Quote:

Why do we question a Dad caring for a very young daughter? *This society is insane*.
Pretty much!

We have all girls so without DH's help I'd be pretty SOL.


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## Kagrish (Jun 8, 2009)

Sorry for your DH! It is sad that this is how people have to think nowadays


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
We have all girls so without DH's help I'd be pretty SOL.

We had three girls before we had a boy so I know how you feel. Now my oldest is not DH's and she was four when we got married, so he never participated in any intimate care with her. Our first daughter together he tried to pull the "I'll get accused of molesting her" card and I let him get away with it for awhile. But you know what? Their relationship suffered and when she was two I had to step in and help him build one. So I didn't let him use that excuse with the next one and they have had a much closer relationship from the start, as he has with my son. Not to say dh and my 10 year old don't have a good relationship now.. but it was harder to build at 2 than it would have been from the start.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
We had three girls before we had a boy so I know how you feel. Now my oldest is not DH's and she was four when we got married, so he never participated in any intimate care with her. Our first daughter together he tried to pull the "I'll get accused of molesting her" card and I let him get away with it for awhile. But you know what? Their relationship suffered and when she was two I had to step in and help him build one. So I didn't let him use that excuse with the next one and they have had a much closer relationship from the start, as he has with my son. Not to say dh and my 10 year old don't have a good relationship now.. but it was harder to build at 2 than it would have been from the start.

That's interesting about their relationship. I don't doubt it!

Our deal has been from day 1 of DD1's life that when he is home he changes every diaper and he also gives the baths (this has become more of a team effort with 3 girls but he still bathes them and I dress them as he passes them to me). We figured it'd be his time with them and it has been ever since. It's such a help to me especially when I am preggers and/or breastfeeding.


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## fwlady (May 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I am sorry, but in my opinion it is an excuse.

I have read much of this thread and I think this is very over generalized. My DH works 60 hrs a week. He also does car and yard maintenance. He will come home and clean with the house when there is a lot to be done, cook dinner/brunches more than once a week, take the kids to appt with him, he will grocery shop, and put younger kids to bed if possible. He will also watch the kids all day when I have multiple appts. He does change diapers at MY insistance. But, he will NOT bathe or shower with a son, when I thought it would be convenient.

One time he changed our oldest who was 2yo and diarhea, and walked out the mall bathroom to come get the wipes, and I FLIPPED. He doesn't change diapers in the restroom anymore, but that is my fault. He won't bathe little girls (and we have many). There are other things he won't do for self protection. I know my Dh is safe with my kids, and safe with any kids, but this is society that we live in, and he doesn't want anyone to think that he is doing anything questionable.

I consider myself the luckiest wife in the world to have a DH that is a workaholic, but yet it works in my favor now, unlike before. He works that long out of necessity, but is much more involved with the children now that we have so many. But, I do see things that he won't do because he doesn't want anyone to be suspicious of him. Kymberli


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fwlady* 
I have read much of this thread and I think this is very over generalized. My DH works 60 hrs a week. He also does car and yard maintenance. He will come home and clean with the house when there is a lot to be done, cook dinner/brunches more than once a week, take the kids to appt with him, he will grocery shop, and put younger kids to bed if possible. He will also watch the kids all day when I have multiple appts. He does change diapers at MY insistance. But, he will NOT bathe or shower with a son, when I thought it would be convenient.

One time he changed our oldest who was 2yo and diarhea, and walked out the mall bathroom to come get the wipes, and I FLIPPED. He doesn't change diapers in the restroom anymore, but that is my fault. He won't bathe little girls (and we have many). There are other things he won't do for self protection. I know my Dh is safe with my kids, and safe with any kids, but this is society that we live in, and he doesn't want anyone to think that he is doing anything questionable.

I consider myself the luckiest wife in the world to have a DH that is a workaholic, but yet it works in my favor now, unlike before. He works that long out of necessity, but is much more involved with the children now that we have so many. But, I do see things that he won't do because he doesn't want anyone to be suspicious of him. Kymberli

I still believe it is an excuse. There is no reason for this "self protection." It is only the society we live in because we allow it to be.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl* 
Don't you think that a situation where people questioned the appropriateness of male care would be an opportunity to educate those people? I would want to let them know that its their view of the situation that is inappropriate and sick...not the situation itself. Why would you change family behavior because of someone else's fear or disapproval?

Maybe, maybe not. Having had many "opportunities to educate" via my DH and also male daycare co-workers....education is not unilateral. The other person MUST be willing to hear what you have to say.

And sadly, many, many, MANY people (even here) will not or cannot hear that a male might be a safe caregiver for their children. Including daddies and brothers.

It's never changed how we did things, but I don't always think it's an education opportunity either. It depends on whether or not people are in a place where they can even remotely hear you. Some people are not. It's sad, but there's nothing you can do really to change their minds (or vice versa). I take my cue from my former co-workers and DH, they shrug it off and move on, if it's obvious that the person is incapable of even considering my viewpoint on things then so do I.

ETA: As for the excuse...yes, I see people using that as an excuse. I also see it as an "excuse" sometimes for the mom to retain absolute control. (though granted, it tends to start with far less emotional/gutpunching things than sexual abuse) The mom might then complain about her partner not helping but there are some people that seem (perhaps unwittingly) bound and determined to retain all the control. Their way is the right way and must be followed every time, from how to play with the kid, what they can wear, ect, it kind of sucks all the joy and autonomy from the other parent (though the other parent could and should assert themselves more, to go belly up in the face of that is a choice too). One of the things that really annoyed me about a lot of the moms groups I went to when my kids were small is the contant stream of moaning and complaining about partners who "didn't do anything", right alongside constant critiques and mocking of how they did things when they DID contribute. I do think a lot of our societal attitudes about partnerships and family dynamics and parenting are sick--but it's more complex that who uses what excuse IMO. I find that excuses most of the time serve BOTH people in the partnership in some way, with a few exceptions of course.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

My dh tried to use it as an excuse. And I called him on it, and he sheepishly admitted it was an excuse and gave up, and now changed diapers. I doubt there's a CPS red flag "changes infant daughter's diapers" anyway. Some men might actually be afraid of that but I don't think anyone except the most paranoid would question a dad changing his own daughter's diapers. And yes, I know "the most paranoid" exist in the world. We can't live our lives around their misconceptions of reality.


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## GradysMom (Jan 7, 2007)

ITA with OP and feel sorry for DH.. ugh..

BUt I wanna bring up another angle to this that is just near and dear to my heart... What kind of message was that mother sending her son about men... he is afterall going to grow up and become one.

The question "what is taking so long?" would have covered all concerns arising in her... but instead she spoon fed her boy the worlds paranoia with men.. whether she realizes it or not... our boys are listening IYKWIM

Kinda like How I can't stand to hear generalized comments about men and directions, listening, caring, commitment that are dropped in deraogatory ways...

Moms of boys need to pay better attention than that....

Another thing is trying this scenerio on the other foot... dad shouts into a ladies room... you ok... is anybody touching you in there.... how totally insane would that seem?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
As for the excuse...yes, I see people using that as an excuse. I also see it as an "excuse" sometimes for the mom to retain absolute control. (though granted, it tends to start with far less emotional/gutpunching things than sexual abuse) The mom might then complain about her partner not helping but there are some people that seem (perhaps unwittingly) bound and determined to retain all the control. Their way is the right way and must be followed every time, from how to play with the kid, what they can wear, ect, it kind of sucks all the joy and autonomy from the other parent (though the other parent could and should assert themselves more, to go belly up in the face of that is a choice too). One of the things that really annoyed me about a lot of the moms groups I went to when my kids were small is the contant stream of moaning and complaining about partners who "didn't do anything", right alongside constant critiques and mocking of how they did things when they DID contribute.

Thank you for saying this. I've noticed the same thing multiple times, and it really upsets me. As you say, going belly up in the face of it is a choice, but I do understand it in some cases. _Constant_ criticism and mocking wears a person down. I've certainly seen at least two cases where it reached a level that was flat-out emotionally abusive...yet those same women would happily spend an evening with their girlfriends complaining about their "useless" spouse who wouldn't/couldn't do anything to help. There are certainly men who just don't think they should have to do "women's work"...but the kind of dynamic you're talking about happens a lot, too.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I still believe it is an excuse. There is no reason for this "self protection." It is only the society we live in because we allow it to be.

There is a reason for the self-protection... Whether you agree with the mindset or not, the wrong person could hear that dad bathes his child or changes diapers (son or daughter) and call the police. The end result of which could easily take him away from his children for an extended period of time.

Men are stuck between a rock and hard place here, they help out with the kids and someone will assume the worst, they don't help out and they are lazy, unfit fathers. The only difference is that one accusation can ruin a fathers life while the other can just ruin how people outside the imidiate family see him.

P.S. to a different poster can't remember who, the diaper fetish is not the same as pedophilia. It's one of many fetishes that center on adults enjoying being or seeing another adult humiliated. I can see how someone would easily make the connection though.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
There is a reason for the self-protection... Whether you agree with the mindset or not, the wrong person could hear that dad bathes his child or changes diapers (son or daughter) and call the police. The end result of which could easily take him away from his children for an extended period of time.

That is an absolute load. There is no police officer in his right mind, nor CPS agent is going to take kids, dad away from the home cause dad changes his daughter's diaper. That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. It's just not.. going.. to happen. And pretending like it might is totally doing a disservice to everyone in society as well as your children.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
That is an absolute load. There is no police officer in his right mind, nor CPS agent is going to take kids, dad away from the home cause dad changes his daughter's diaper. That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. It's just not.. going.. to happen. And pretending like it might is totally doing a disservice to everyone in society as well as your children.

You really think that a police officer is going to ignore someone calling in about suspected sexual abuse of a child too young to talk just because mom says "Well it's all ok so don't bother"? The person isn't going to call in and say "Well he changed the daiper" they are going to say "that man is sexually abusing his children" and they will take it seriously until it is either proven false, or they find a reason to arrest the dad. Either way the stigma is going to be stuck on that man for the rest of his life and cause grief for him and his family.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
You really think that a police officer is going to ignore someone calling in about suspected sexual abuse of a child too young to talk just because mom says "Well it's all ok so don't bother"? The person isn't going to call in and say "Well he changed the daiper" they are going to say "that man is sexually abusing his children" and they will take it seriously until it is either proven false, or they find a reason to arrest the dad. Either way the stigma is going to be stuck on that man for the rest of his life and cause grief for him and his family.

I think we, as a society, spend to much time worrying about what ifs that have no basis in reality.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I think we, as a society, spend to much time worrying about what ifs that have no basis in reality.

I actually agree with you, but that doesn't change the fact that the OP's dh was basically publicly accused of being a pedophile, for the heinous crime of _using the men's room_.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I actually agree with you, but that doesn't change the fact that the OP's dh was basically publicly accused of being a pedophile, for the heinous crime of _using the men's room_.

Your right. But my comment was aimed at the side topic of men not changing their children's diapers because they are afraid of being arrested for child molestation.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I know. I'm just making the point that it's not always an excuse, and that there _is_ reason for the level of paranoia about this that some men have. I don't find the scenario MusicianDad cited to be as far out as you do. It's no more far out than someone screaming about "did someone _touch_ you", just because a man walked out of a bathroom.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I think we, as a society, spend to much time worrying about what ifs that have no basis in reality.

A what if for you can very well be reality for someone else. People have been falsely accused and some of them have been falsely convicted because of the stigma that men face when it comes to sexual abuse.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I know. I'm just making the point that it's not always an excuse, and that there _is_ reason for the level of paranoia about this that some men have. I don't find the scenario MusicianDad cited to be as far out as you do. It's no more far out than someone screaming about "did someone _touch_ you", just because a man walked out of a bathroom.

I do think it is far out. People are not going to call the police and claim someone is sexually abusing their children because dad changed a diaper. Someone who is going to do something like that is going to make up wild accusations about anything. They could call and tell them you beat your children. It doesn't matter, they are out to get you no matter what.. They are unstable and will make anything up. But *no one* in their right mind is going to sincerely believe that dad changing a diaper is sexual abuse and call the police. I just don't believe we as a society are that ignorant.. yet.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
A what if for you can very well be reality for someone else. People have been falsely accused and some of them have been falsely convicted because of the stigma that men face when it comes to sexual abuse.

And I am sure there was a lot more to it than dad changing his daughters diaper or giving her a bath.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I do think it is far out. People are not going to call the police and claim someone is sexually abusing their children because dad changed a diaper. Someone who is going to do something like that is going to make up wild accusations about anything. They could call and tell them you beat your children. It doesn't matter, they are out to get you no matter what.. They are unstable and will make anything up. But *no one* in their right mind is going to sincerely believe that dad changing a diaper is sexual abuse and call the police. I just don't believe we as a society are that ignorant.. yet.

No one in their right mind would, no...but no one in their right mind would do what the woman in the OP did, either. People on this thread have mentioned that they've had people concerned about the "appropriateness" of their partner changing/bathing their little ones. This mindset is out there. If someone who thinks this way is going to call CPS, they're not going to call and say, "so-and-so is changing his dd's diaper". They're going to call and say, "this little girl/boy told me that daddy touches her privates when nobody else is in the room" and go from there.

Is our society, as a whole, this nuts? No - not yet (and I hope the trend turns). That doesn't mean there aren't people out there who are that nuts. They're not a majority, by any means...but they are out there, and it's not just one or two people who are totally crazy. It's a fairly widespread form of paranoia.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
And I am sure there was a lot more to it than dad changing his daughters diaper or giving her a bath.

As a father I can honestly tell you that it doesn't take "more the changing a diaper or giving a bath" to freak people out. All it takes is a dad and a child in a situation that the adult mind can construe as overly invasive.

And you can't forget that any person who gets involved in the situation after someone makes a complaint are only human and destined to let their own biases affect how they view something.

There's a reason that DH and I have had many people, both aquantences and strangers, telling us that DD needs a female to help her deal with things that are private. Because a dad helping his daughter buy her first bra is apperently creepy.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
It's a fairly widespread form of paranoia.

Your right. It is paranoia. And as long as you don't let paranoia own you, you don't have to worry about the ridiculousness of what you are paranoid about.

And again, as I said, some crazy calling in saying you are molesting your children is out to get you period. They can call and tell CPS anything.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
There's a reason that DH and I have had many people, both aquantences and strangers, telling us that DD needs a female to help her deal with things that are private. Because a dad helping his daughter buy her first bra is apperently creepy.

Frankly in your case, I think it is more prejudice. No one would say a word about a single father for buying his dd her first bra. Unless of course the DD herself was uncomfortable with it, which I can also understand. Then someone might suggest an aunt or some other female figure.

However we are talking about much smaller children. Infants and children under 5.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
And I am sure there was a lot more to it than dad changing his daughters diaper or giving her a bath.

Do you notice how quick you are to assume that if someone is falsely-accused or convicted, there must be "more to it?" I've heard similar comments about families that are dealing with CPS intervention for a variety of reasons -- there's always this idea that the authorities don't mess with people without an extremely good reason, which reflects rather badly on the few who are dealing with this.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Do you notice how quick you are to assume that if someone is falsely-accused or convicted, there must be "more to it?" I've heard similar comments about families that are dealing with CPS intervention for a variety of reasons -- there's always this idea that the authorities don't mess with people without an extremely good reason, which reflects rather badly on the few who are dealing with this.

No, I believe CPS gets involved for a variety of stupid reasons. Not vaxing, home schooling, grudges, ect. What I said was.. there has to be more than Dad changing daughter's diaper for CPS to be involved. I cannot and will not believe our society is that ignorant.. yet.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

It's really sad how quickly these threads turn into bickering. I don't see why it's so hard to understand that a SAS has personal fears. Is it really that hard to understand they might feel scared about certain situations, experience PTSD symptons, or even just have a heightened awareness? I find it offensive the way their personal hurts are tossed about as irrational, overprotective, nutty, weird etc. That is just as judgmental as the topic being discussed against men.

The woman in the story was wrong b/c she was socially inappropriate by speaking a poorly phrased, accusatory sentence aloud. That is no reason to dig into people who have fears about certain situations or scenarios. She could have been very scared about the situation and still taken the time speak to the boy quietly.

I have no trouble believing in my husband and trusting him. But I'll be darned if I'm going to deaden my senses and awareness of the world we live in. How about if everyone who keeps saying to change the world offers her child up first.

















BTW I believe the average age for abduction and molestation for boys is 11. If the woman in the OP's story was not reacting emotionally, she would have made a better choice by securing the restroom through other methods...such as asking the boy to wait until the restroom was empty. Or creating keywords that weren't offensive.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
No, I believe CPS gets involved for a variety of stupid reasons. Not vaxing, home schooling, grudges, ect. What I said was.. there has to be more than Dad changing daughter's diaper for CPS to be involved. I cannot and will not believe our society is that ignorant.. yet.

Do you mean for it to become an active case? Or for it to become reportable?

If it is reported and they cannot dismiss it, they have to investigate it and be satisfied before closing it.

So, yeah, I personally am enraged at the thought that someone could make an anonymous phone call, toss in some remarks about 'daddy' 'bathing' and 'sex' and then CPS gets to 'investigate' us.


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## Mommy2Austin (Oct 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Multimomma* 







:

Camra, that's exactly what I was going to post. Churn, as well. I also recently read a post about how eight years old was too old to go in the women's bathroom...with several posts about how uncomfortable mdc moms were with an older boy in the women's bathroom.

Sorry, but that woman didn't know your husband. She made a parenting choice, didn't know he was in there until he walked out, and was reacting the best she knew how. Your husband decided to feel embarrassed, we own our feelings, and as Eleanor Roosevelt said, "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent".

However when someone screams "Is someone touching you?" and then the DH comes out of the bathroom with everyone around staring at him that gives everyone who couldn't hear said sons reply of NO the impression that something may have been going on. Its not just feeling embarrassed its getting labeled. A label that can have serious repercussions.

I think the mother handled the situation poorly. My first question when my son is taking too long in the bathroom (usually at home or at a friends house, because otherwise I'm with him) is "What are you doing?" Kids get sidetracked even at 8 years old. If after that I don't get a reply I ask "Are you ok?" and then I go find him. I wouldn't care if it was a men's bathroom or not.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 
How about if everyone who keeps saying to change the world offers her child up first.

















I will gladly offer my child up first so her father can change her diaper and or give her a bath at appropriate ages.

And I will never believe that a father who refuses to help in the care of his child because he "might be accused of molesting her" is throwing out anything other than an excuse to help with said care.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

While I don't think the woman handled that incident particularly well, the last long thread we had here showed that this is the exact way moms of boys should handle taking their boys to the bathroom. Maybe she was a mom here and read that and despite her own fears, she was trying to make the women of the world more comfortable.

Its very hard to make sure no one is ever offended.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 









It's really sad how quickly these threads turn into bickering. I don't see why it's so hard to understand that a SAS has personal fears. Is it really that hard to understand they might feel scared about certain situations, experience PTSD symptons, or even just have a heightened awareness? I find it offensive the way their personal hurts are tossed about as irrational, overprotective, nutty, weird etc. That is just as judgmental as the topic being discussed against men.

The woman in the story was wrong b/c she was socially inappropriate by speaking a poorly phrased, accusatory sentence aloud. That is no reason to dig into people who have fears about certain situations or scenarios. She could have been very scared about the situation and still taken the time speak to the boy quietly.

I have no trouble believing in my husband and trusting him. But I'll be darned if I'm going to deaden my senses and awareness of the world we live in. How about if everyone who keeps saying to change the world offers her child up first.

















BTW I believe the average age for abduction and molestation for boys is 11. If the woman in the OP's story was not reacting emotionally, she would have made a better choice by securing the restroom through other methods...such as asking the boy to wait until the restroom was empty. Or creating keywords that weren't offensive.

I am far from naive about what can happen when children are left alone with strangers, both male and female.

I am not going to let those people affect me to such an extent that I live my life assuming every man I meet is a pedofile waiting to strike.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I will gladly offer my child up first so her father can change her diaper and or give her a bath at appropriate ages.

And I will never believe that a father who refuses to help in the care of his child because he "might be accused of molesting her" is throwing out anything other than an excuse to help with said care.

You can think whatever you want. That doesn't make it true. I'm sure there are plenty of fathers who would love to help with their children but are to scared of what would happen if the wrong person in the family finds out dad changes diapers or gives his child a bath.

ETA: I know at least one single dad who gets comments about helping his daughter with more personal issues. The discrimination isn't with two dads, it's with having a dad that your comfortable enough with to go to about these issues. Yeah, it sucks and yeah it needs to change. But ignoring the stigma out there won't change it.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
No, I believe CPS gets involved for a variety of stupid reasons. Not vaxing, home schooling, grudges, ect. What I said was.. there has to be more than Dad changing daughter's diaper for CPS to be involved. I cannot and will not believe our society is that ignorant.. yet.

Yes, I agree that CPS wouldn't be likely to open a case because someone said, "The father changes the baby's diaper." However, I think most people know this -- or else they'll find out the first time they call the hotline and are told, "A father changing a diaper or bathing a child is just a parent caring for a child. We only investigate suspected ABUSE OR NEGLECT."

After this, I suppose someone who really has a bee in their bonnet and thinks it's just too weird for the dad to be this involved, MIGHT figure out something to add just to get CPS involved -- i.e. "I saw this dad changing his daughter's diaper, and then he was putting cream on her and he spent a lot of time doing it and seemed to be trying to STIMULATE her" --

I don't know, I'm just guessing that people who are freaked-out about stuff will figure out what they need to add to make it report-worthy.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

And, to add to my previous post, while it's true that a freaked-out person could also totally fabricate something -- they'll be less likely to fabricate if they haven't seen anything to freak them out in the first place. I think this is what some people here are talking about -- they're just not wanting to send out "red flags" unnecessarily.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alyantavid* 
While I don't think the woman handled that incident particularly well, the last long thread we had here showed that this is the exact way moms of boys should handle taking their boys to the bathroom. Maybe she was a mom here and read that and despite her own fears, she was trying to make the women of the world more comfortable.

Its very hard to make sure no one is ever offended.

Oh I don't think that was the *exact* way that was suggested in that thread...I posted on that thread and didn't see anything about "imply that any male leaving the restroom might have touched you."

Quote:

Originally Posted by claddaghmom
How about if everyone who keeps saying to change the world offers her child up first.

Well, I have a son. He uses the men's room alone. So I guess I have "offered him up".

This is not rocket science. The kid goes in. You wait. If he's taking longer than you think he should you say "why are you taking so long?" The kid answers.

If you are genuinely afraid, you barge on in there.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I will gladly offer my child up first so her father can change her diaper and or give her a bath at appropriate ages.

And I will never believe that a father who refuses to help in the care of his child because he "might be accused of molesting her" is throwing out anything other than an excuse to help with said care.

Yes, you have pointed this out several times. Taking my statement out of context to further support your tangent is taking it a bit far.

Why do you feel the need to keep tossing this line out? It seems quite disrespectful, as if you want to dig into someone and get a response.

DH has always loved coparenting DD but I am sure that he would try to change his behavior and the situation itself if there was some question of sexual molestation. It does no good to keep right on trucking when you are dealing with allegations and suspicions of abuse. It has to be dealt with. You can't shove your head in the ground and declare that it is some excuse to get out of parenting.


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl* 
Ummm...just deriving this from my own childhood here (which was a long time ago), but isn't eight old enough to go to the restroom without parental supervision? I guess that is what I find the most creepy about this story.

Were I your husband I certainly would have had words with that crazy lady.

I don't know...my daughter will be 7 this summer and I wouldn't let her go to the restroom unsupervised yet... My son is 5, but autistic, and I think it will be a looooooong time before he's allowed to go by himself.


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alyantavid* 
While I don't think the woman handled that incident particularly well, the last long thread we had here showed that this is the exact way moms of boys should handle taking their boys to the bathroom. Maybe she was a mom here and read that and despite her own fears, she was trying to make the women of the world more comfortable.

Its very hard to make sure no one is ever offended.

Huh? Are you joking? I didn't read the thread, but I cannot believe the "right thing to do" to "make women more comfortable" is to accuse men who use the men's room to be molesters...? This makes no sense. Or do you mean to send an 8 yr old into the mens room?

And, I guess it IS hard never to offend anyone. But heck- accusing someone of being a child molester is pretty easy to "verbally avoid"







.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
Huh? Are you joking? I didn't read the thread, but I cannot believe the "right thing to do" to "make women more comfortable" is to accuse men who use the men's room to be molesters...? This makes no sense. Or do you mean to send an 8 yr old into the mens room?

And, I guess it IS hard never to offend anyone. But heck- accusing someone of being a child molester is pretty easy to "verbally avoid"







.











Yeah and this situation calls to mind debecker's book where he says parents need to be specific when speaking w/ their children about 'bad' things. I would hazard to guess the 8yo was the only person in the whole situation who had no idea what was going on.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
That is an absolute load. There is no police officer in his right mind, nor CPS agent is going to take kids, dad away from the home cause dad changes his daughter's diaper. That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. It's just not.. going.. to happen. And pretending like it might is totally doing a disservice to everyone in society as well as your children.

Unfortunately not all LEOs or CPS workers are "in their right minds". And not only that, unfortunately racism, homophobia, religious discrimination, ect. is still very much a big problem in some areas, and there are plenty of cops and social workers who share those prejudices.

So yeah, were I a member of a group likely to be discriminated against (same sex couple, single parent male or female, person of color, ect.) then I frankly would probably feel more concerned about both the systemic reaction to a call about me as well as the likelihood of somebody making a false call. This is not something I would have thought about before spending time as a foster parent and corrections officer. Now I know better, much to my dismay.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
You can think whatever you want. That doesn't make it true. I'm sure there are plenty of fathers who would love to help with their children but are to scared of what would happen if the wrong person in the family finds out dad changes diapers or gives his child a bath.

We will just have to agree to disagree .. cause I don't agree with you.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 
Yes, you have pointed this out several times. Taking my statement out of context to further support your tangent is taking it a bit far.

Hrmmm I did not take your statement out of context. If I did... I think you need to clarify exactly what you meant.


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
I think you may have misread my post. I don't think the woman behaved reasonably at all.

And I don't think the husband "decided" to feel embarrassed. If someone loudly accused me of touching their child inappropriately, I'd be horrified, and it wouldn't be something I'd even have time to "choose" about.

I don't think asking the KID if someone touched him is accusing, asking the man "did you touch my son" would be accusing, but asking the kid, no, not at all...I wouldn't of said it, cause I do actually trust my daughter to tell me if she is ok or not (not my son, like I said before, he is autistic and doesn't get it...he will tell you he feels perfectly fine a tenth of a second before puking for example...but I don't let him go places without me because of that)...but, that said, at 6, I wouldn't trust Janelle in a mens room...luckily, she's female, so it will never come up, but I don't think little boys are more safe in a mens room just cause they are male...


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
This is not rocket science. The kid goes in. You wait. If he's taking longer than you think he should you say "why are you taking so long?" The kid answers.

If you are genuinely afraid, you barge on in there.

I agree. Ya know, bathrooms are not "holy ground". If you are worried about your child in the mens room, ya go in there (or knock and give a warning and then peek a little enough to see that all is well). I mean, the most likely scenario is a few sheepish guys and some apologies and most of them would understand. The bathrooms won't explode because someone of the opposite sex enters in an emergency.

Or, if you are _that_ uncomfortable, take him in the women's room. Some "disaproving looks" won't hurt you and if someone "tells on you", well- explain, and "promise not to do it again"







. Do you really care what some lady in a McDonald's roadside bathroom thinks if the alternative is a bunch of truckers and drifters in the men's room late at night? I don't. And I don't care if I'm scolded either. Whatever.

Or, you could wait until either is empty and go in with them ("Hello? Any guys in there? No? OK! I'm coming in..." or "Is this women's room empty? Little boy comin' through!"). Barring really busy very public spaces with a lot of traffic (which aren't really good "assault" environments anyway because there are many men coming and going so doing something wrong and private is not easy), most public bathrooms in resteraunts and stores are relatively infrequently occupied and this is easy enough to accomplish.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cinder* 
I don't think asking the KID if someone touched him is accusing, asking the man "did you touch my son" would be accusing, but asking the kid, no, not at all...I wouldn't of said it, cause I do actually trust my daughter to tell me if she is ok or not (not my son, like I said before, he is autistic and doesn't get it...he will tell you he feels perfectly fine a tenth of a second before puking for example...but I don't let him go places without me because of that)...but, that said, at 6, I wouldn't trust Janelle in a mens room...luckily, she's female, so it will never come up, but I don't think little boys are more safe in a mens room just cause they are male...

If there is only one person exiting the washroom and the mom yells in "Did somebody touch you?" then it is an accusation. It's not a direct accusation, but it is an accusation. She is just too scared to voice her opinion to the person she's accusing.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Are you sure it's not just an excuse not to bathe or change them? My DH used that excuse for years... then we had a son and he still tries to use it. We have been married long enough now that I tell him to suck it up and give them a bath/change diaper once in awhile.

It is sad however that we live in a world where that excuse to not help parent can be seen as legitimate.

To the OP, what that woman did was completely uncalled for. My son is only 2 but I would like to think that I wont have to fear him being molested in the bathroom while I am standing outside door yelling, "Are you OK?" and he answers yes.

In this day and age it is REALITY!!

I know a dad/family that was torn appart because during a talk about approprate touch at school his dd said "My dad touchs my bottom." The school nurse and doctors knew this little girl had major issues with not wiping. He touched her bottom for the same reason I touched her bottom to put medicine on them. I never bathed another child other than my own after that.

I know a mom that was talk to by a day care provider. She removed a tick from her son. It was attached close to the scrotem/shaft. He mentioned that mommy tickled my penis. Luckily the person used a little common since and he told how a tick was by his penis. They had to work with him on not saying mommy tickled my penis.

If you read many books geared towards dad they do talk about men's fear about touching thier daughters (esspecially during/after puberty) when they need it more.

When you are a dad seeing all this male sex abuser their views and fears are real.


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## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

My family is a lot like this. It's like they don't even trust the men they marry. It's all girls in my family (except the men we marry), and they're not allowed to bathe their kids - like even when their babies. My family has some kind of huge hang ups on this. They can't co-sleep with them, can't bathe them, can't go on vacation alone with them. It's really twisted.

I don't understand where this fear comes from - to my knowledge, no one has ever been molested in my family. Maybe it happened in their childhoods ... I don't know. But, they all have an over the top fear of men. To the point where it's totally irrational.

I can only imagine what they'll start saying to us when we have a baby!


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sailor* 
My family is a lot like this. It's like they don't even trust the men they marry. It's all girls in my family (except the men we marry), and they're not allowed to bathe their kids - like even when their babies. My family has some kind of huge hang ups on this. They can't co-sleep with them, can't bathe them, can't go on vacation alone with them. It's really twisted.

I don't understand where this fear comes from - to my knowledge, no one has ever been molested in my family. Maybe it happened in their childhoods ... I don't know. But, they all have an over the top fear of men. To the point where it's totally irrational.

I can only imagine what they'll start saying to us when we have a baby!

wow that might be something you should demand an answer on!!


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom* 
I
If you read many books geared towards dad they do talk about men's fear about touching thier daughters (esspecially during/after puberty) when they need it more.

When you are a dad seeing all this male sex abuser their views and fears are real.

Uhhhh, why would a daughter need to be touched more during and after puberty???


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Uhhhh, why would a daughter need to be touched more during and after puberty???

Once a girl reaches puberty, many fathers feel uncomfortable with everyday touching like hugs because the idea that once you reach a certain age, touching is far to intimate an activity to occure between father and daughter.


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## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 
wow that might be something you should demand an answer on!!

I've tried. But, their answer is pretty standard "don't you read the news? You know how men are." My grandmother was a criminal judge, and she had a lot of rape/sexual assault cases. I think, for her, this is where it partly comes from.

But, the rest of them ... I don't know. My grandmother and her two sisters are from Europe, and lived through WWII together. They had to hide and be on the run, as their parents were teachers and Hitler was rounding up all teachers for the concentration camps. Maybe something happened then. I don't want to pry too much if it's a really painful memory.

The fear of men stems from them, and they infected their kids with it. I escaped only because my mom and I left Europe when I was 5.

The men in my family seem so honorable and "healthy" in terms of their mindsets. I mean, my grandfather is the gentlest man I know. I lived with my grandparents and my mom until age 5, and I never felt uncomfortable with my grandfather. So ... I'm thinking something happened in the past.

I try to just ignore their comments, for the most part.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
I am far from naive about what can happen when children are left alone with strangers, both male and female.

I am not going to let those people affect me to such an extent that I live my life assuming every man I meet is a pedofile waiting to strike.

For sexual abuse survivors, all types of scenarios can be triggers, which was Claddagh Mom's point. As a sexual abuse survivor myself, I know there are situations that creep me out because they remind me of what happened to me. If I don't control the feelings when they first arise, I become panicky and probably seem a bit paranoid to anyone watching.

PTSD is very real and can have long-lasting effects. I can see this mom's fear rising to the level that she blurted out what she was thinking because she kept asking her son if he was okay. There are times that I absolutely have to leave a situation before I really freak out. This mom couldn't leave while her son was in the bathroom, and she may have just gotten overwhelmed.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Do you notice how quick you are to assume that if someone is falsely-accused or convicted, there must be "more to it?" I've heard similar comments about families that are dealing with CPS intervention for a variety of reasons -- there's always this idea that the authorities don't mess with people without an extremely good reason, which reflects rather badly on the few who are dealing with this.

The original quote referenced someone being arrested and convicted for a changed diaper. That's pretty unbelievable, especially given the very low rate of conviction for sexual abusers.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
If there is only one person exiting the washroom and the mom yells in "Did somebody touch you?" then it is an accusation. It's not a direct accusation, but it is an accusation. She is just too scared to voice her opinion to the person she's accusing.

How did the mom know the OP's DH was the only person in there?


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Uhhhh, why would a daughter need to be touched more during and after puberty???

They still need hugs and every other day type touches. Dads out of fear and hold them back can make dd feel unloved. Many times girls need this type of attention more at this age and less hurts.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Yeah, serial postings.

I view what the woman did as a poor way to say what lots of moms would say in a more discreet fashion. So your DH got embarassed around a group of strangers. It's not going to be the end of the world for him. Nothing happened. No security guard ran over to stop him from leaving. You left the park because of the rain. He may have been uncomfortable, but I can't imagine it's going to have a lifelong impact on your DH.

As I've said before, I'm a survivor of sexual abuse, so I can sympathize with the possibility that this woman was struggling with past issues in her life. I don't think it's right to condemn her or call her "weird" or "nuts" because she asked a question in an inappropriate way.

Imagine a mom came here and said this: "Today, I took my son to the water park. He was in the bathroom an unusually long time, and then this guy walked out. I don't know why, but I got a creepy feeling about this guy. Something just seemed off about him. I said to DS, 'did someone TOUCH you?' Then the guy seemed really embarrassed, and I realized I'd said it louder than I meant to and others were looking. I felt really badly about it, but I panicked. Now I feel awful."

Everyone would say "you could've worded it differently, but forgive yourself for the slip. I mean, after all I always say to trust my instinct. If someone seems creepy, I don't care if I hurt his feelings. My children's safety comes first."


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BrandiRhoades* 
How did the mom know the OP's DH was the only person in there?

It doesn't matter it was not the best way to ask "Are you ok?" or "What is taking so long."

"No one touched me." But I am sitting here trying to unlock my door, my zipper is stuck, I just cut my toe open, I just slipped and whacked my head....... Or I turning on all the sinks, flossing brown paper towels, throwing wet tolet paper onto the ceiling.

When I have yelled into bathrooms for my kids -- I am asking if they are ok or need help because other things are more likely to happen than molestation. Or a way to get them to move allong because they are playing.....which happens more often than molestation.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom* 
It doesn't matter it was not the best way to ask "Are you ok?"

I know, but several posters seem fixated on this being embarrassing to the OP's DH because he was the only person in there. We only know that because the OP said it; everyone else at the water park didn't know.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

By this age a child should know about private body parts, and know it's not okay for someone to molest them.
As someone who was molested at "that age," I can say that even though an eight year old knows about private parts and that people shouldn't molest them, they certainly do get molested.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Once a girl reaches puberty, many fathers feel uncomfortable with everyday touching like hugs because the idea that once you reach a certain age, touching is far to intimate an activity to occure between father and daughter.

But that doesn't explain why they would need to be touched more.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom* 
They still need hugs and every other day type touches. Dads out of fear and hold them back can make dd feel unloved. Many times girls need this type of attention more at this age and less hurts.

I wouldn't know. I was on my fourth father by that age and didn't want anything to do with him. He used to try to give me hugs and I just wanted him the hell away from me.


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## Amandamanda (Sep 29, 2007)

oh wow..


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
My dh was kind of terrified to touch her to help her (she asked him "Help me a little too?" because obviously he was helping my son and they were having a good time and she wanted to join in and needed a hand). He kind of pretended like it was not a big deal (a little help from a Daddy playing on the monkey bars *shouldn't* be) but he said he was terrified someone was going to "think something" or she was going to "say something" and he moved away from the monkey bars after out of the fear that a little girl was going to ask him for a boost on the jungle gym. What a world we live in! I'm not sure which is worse. *That people that really do "touch" kids or that we all spend so much emotional energy every day in public spaces living in fear of them or being accused of it.*

yeah. i totally relate.

DH took DD to the park a few weeks back, and a little boy took a spill off the play structure. his parents weren't paying attention, and he reached up to DH like "pick me up," and DH actually hesitated before touching him for fear of being accused of something.

so sad it's come to this, isn't it?









he did pick him up, though--and he took him over to his mama. i was really proud he helped the boy despite his (IMO well-founded) fear of someone "thinking" something


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Your right. It is paranoia. And as long as you don't let paranoia own you, you don't have to worry about the ridiculousness of what you are paranoid about.

That's true. However, it doesn't follow that a man who _is_ paranoid about this is necessarily simply using it as an excuse. I'm sure some men do that, but it doesn't follow that _all_ men do that.

Quote:

And again, as I said, some crazy calling in saying you are molesting your children is out to get you period. They can call and tell CPS anything.
Yes, they can - and many of those things can be easily dismissed. But, if the suspicion is planted, the bathing issue can become confused very easily. "Daddy touched my vulva (assuming the child knows the word) and it really hurt" could be totally innocent...cleaning a scratch, wiping sand out, etc...but if suspicion already exists, because of a wacky CPS call, it's far more likely to be treated seriously.

And, the person doesn't necessarily have to be "out to get you". Some people really do get freaked about this stuff, to the extent that they're highly suspicious of any man touching a child's genitals for any reason. I've also known a couple of men who would change their own children, but wouldn't change someone else's, if, for example, their SO was babysitting or something. They're concerned about whether it's "appropriate".


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
so sad it's come to this, isn't it?









What's really sad are the large numbers of children who grow up being molested and don't report it/aren't believed/find out there's little "justice" in the criminal justice system.

It's not that I don't get that it's unfortunate for stand-up men to feel they have to question their natural instinct to help. DH has mentioned the same thing about helping other children and having parents think he's doing something inappropriate. He's also said that while it bothers him, he cannot blame parents for doing what they believe is right in protecting their children.

The thing that bothers me the most about the distrust of strange men in public places isn't that those men get uncomfortable. It's that those men are very rarely the source of sexual abuse. In the vast majority of cases, abusers are someone who knows the child, but the education campaigns on that haven't worked well yet. I hope they will be better in the future, so I see this massive distrust as a stepping stone.

It's also important to note, of course, that today's dads are far more involved as a rule than were their predecessors. It isn't that moms today are more worried, it's that men a couple of generations ago rarely changed diapers and served active roles in their children's play. It's all part of a progression to a better familial social structure.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BrandiRhoades* 
I know, but several posters seem fixated on this being embarrassing to the OP's DH because he was the only person in there. We only know that because the OP said it; everyone else at the water park didn't know.

Obviously, she meant the OP's dh. Her son was _still in the bathroom_. The OP's dh had just walked out. Why else would she suddenly freak out about someone touching her son, if she wasn't talking about the OP's dh? The only other possibility is that the OP's dh walked out, and she suddenly thought, "oh - that nice normal looking guy has left and the pedophile laying in wait is molesting my son"...in which case, she'd be far more likely to run in and see how her son was doing than to suddenly yell "did somebody TOUCH you?" in a loud voice.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
Oh I don't think that was the *exact* way that was suggested in that thread...I posted on that thread and didn't see anything about "imply that any male leaving the restroom might have touched you."

Yeah. I don't recall anything like that, either.

Quote:

Well, I have a son. He uses the men's room alone. So I guess I have "offered him up".
Yeah - ds1 started using public restrooms at about age 6 or 7. I guess I've "offered him up", too.

Quote:

This is not rocket science. The kid goes in. You wait. If he's taking longer than you think he should you say "why are you taking so long?" The kid answers.

If you are genuinely afraid, you barge on in there.
I agree completely. The woman in the OP absolutely accused the OP's dh, which is wildly inappropriate. The fact that she did so in a casual, public way, instead of a call to CPS, doesn't change that a guy was publicly accused of being a pervert, simply because he had to use the bathroom. Claiming she didn't really accuse him, because she was talking to her son, not to him, is completely dodging the issue. She was obviously accusing him.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
But that doesn't explain why they would need to be touched more.

I wouldn't know. I was on my fourth father by that age and didn't want anything to do with him. He used to try to give me hugs and I just wanted him the hell away from me.

It is harder to deal with attention you are craving than something that is coming to you more willingly.

Also your situation is different --- he was your 4th not only/first/who you consider your real dad. It doesn't sound like he was a person that you felt as "dad". Even at that when a relationship is struggling a dad that keeps on trying, offering, et the girls are better off than when the dad parent pulls away.

Your situation doesn't equate to all girls. That is why I used many.

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jul/03/news/cl-47219


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## Inci (Apr 22, 2005)

Brandi, I appreciate your posts, and especially agree with #102 and #110.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BrandiRhoades* 
The original quote referenced someone being arrested and convicted for a changed diaper. That's pretty unbelievable, especially given the very low rate of conviction for sexual abusers.

The original quote also referenced _false accusations_ -- which also can be very harmful to people. I noticed in another post you seemed to feel this should be no big deal to my husband, since he wasn't stopped from leaving the park or anything.

Of course, time will pass and he'll get over it. But I guess not being a man, and looking at it so much from the opposite point of view, you don't seem to be able to grasp what it's like to sense in a moment like that that your whole life is hanging in the balance, based on however a child decides to answer his mom -- a lady who's clearly having a stress-reaction to something, a reaction which may be affecting her child.

I suppose the wackiness would make most kids more likely to say, "No, nobody touched me" even if someone DID -- just to avoid all the additional drama that would ensue. But what if the child had just thought he'd try saying "Yes" just to see what might happen? Unlikely, I know. And it's not what happened, I know.

So maybe we don't even need to open that door and discuss it. But to a man who's being treated with suspicion -- he knows that his whole life could be hanging in the balance based on one child's honesty or lack-of-honesty. Maybe you think I'm over-dramatizing, because there's a "very low rate of conviction for sexual abusers."

But I can tell you that a mere accusation, and the investigation that would likely ensue, could be devastating to most families. What about a family like ours, with young children still in the home? Mightn't they feel our girls needed to be removed until they were "sure" dh was safe? Or else maybe they'd let our girls stay if dh moved out until they'd "cleared" him?

Either way, what a crappy thing for a family to have to deal with, just because some paranoid mom couldn't see fit to go with her child to the bathroom. I'll admit that I have my paranoid moments -- and I DO SOMETHING proactive to make sure I feel good about my children's safety in whatever situation we're in.

I seriously think most men would prefer a woman traipsing into the men's room with her son, over potentially finding themselves accused of a heinous crime. So what if convictions are rare -- some of us have lives to live and would rather not waste the time being placed under unnecessary scrutiny.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

there are so many things wrong with this situation, it is hard to count.

But let's start...

1. the pervasive assumption that all homosexual men are pedophiles.

2. The assumption that all men are potential molesters or abusers, because they are unable to control their sexual urges.

3. that women are incapable of these actions or doing bad things to children.

4. where there is smoke, there is fire. An accusation of child molestation or abuse is nearly impossible to overcome, even when there is no evidence to support it. Lives have been ruined due to the damage done to reputations and the community suspicion of an individual. Of course men are paranoid about the accusation - they have every right to be because it seems like it turns into a witch hunt with no way to prove innocence.

I too am uncomfortable with my son going to public bathrooms in parks, more for the worry that he may observe something inappropriate mixed in with concern about dodgy characters who can be found in public bathrooms. But then he is 5 1/2 yrs old. Before he will be allowed to use a men's room by himself, we will have a long talk about what to be aware of in bathrooms.

Here is a scenario - my son sometimes has a hard time undoing or doing his trousers. He sometimes will ask whomever is standing near him for help. But no man unknown to the child in his right mind would touch the kid (and I wouldn't want them to) - but a woman may feel free to help a child without being worried of her innocent help turning into an accusation of abuse.

And we wonder why many men are not comfortable around children, acting as caregivers, or being stay at home dads?


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BrandiRhoades* 
Imagine a mom came here and said this: "Today, I took my son to the water park. He was in the bathroom an unusually long time, and then this guy walked out. I don't know why, but I got a creepy feeling about this guy. Something just seemed off about him. I said to DS, 'did someone TOUCH you?' Then the guy seemed really embarrassed, and I realized I'd said it louder than I meant to and others were looking. I felt really badly about it, but I panicked. Now I feel awful."

Everyone would say "you could've worded it differently, but forgive yourself for the slip. I mean, after all I always say to trust my instinct. If someone seems creepy, I don't care if I hurt his feelings. My children's safety comes first."

You know, I think people were empathizing with me and my dh's dilemma, because I was the one posting. If she posts here, I imagine she'll get plenty of empathy, too.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
yeah. i totally relate.

DH took DD to the park a few weeks back, and a little boy took a spill off the play structure. his parents weren't paying attention, and he reached up to DH like "pick me up," and DH actually hesitated before touching him for fear of being accused of something.

so sad it's come to this, isn't it?









he did pick him up, though--and he took him over to his mama. i was really proud he helped the boy despite his (IMO well-founded) fear of someone "thinking" something









Yes, it is sad when people are afraid to help a child! I'm glad your dh did anyway!

And for people who are thinking "No harm done" when someone casts suspicion on a man unfairly -- I think it can cause some loss of the helpful-impulse in many men. I hope it won't affect my dh that way.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
As someone who was molested at "that age," I can say that even though an eight year old knows about private parts and that people shouldn't molest them, they certainly do get molested.

What I meant was that by the age when I'd trust my child in a public restroom on her own, I would also trust her not to be saying, "Yeah, I'm okay" if someone was molesting her. By this age we've had numerous discussions about inappropriate touching, and she knows to yell loudly if someone is making her uncomfortable.

Of course, having only girls I've had no problem accompanying them. And if I had boys, I'd have no problem going in the men's room if I thought they were in danger.

Again, I'm just feeling more and more strongly that if any mom is having strong feelings that her child is not safe, she just needs to get her butt in there and keep him safe -- not put men at risk of being falsely-accused.

It would be interesting to do a poll of men's opinions. I have a feeling most of them would prefer the mom barging in to be with her son, over the risk of them getting falsely-accused of child molestation.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siobhang* 
there are so many things wrong with this situation, it is hard to count.

But let's start...

1. the pervasive assumption that all homosexual men are pedophiles.

2. The assumption that all men are potential molesters or abusers, because they are unable to control their sexual urges.

3. that women are incapable of these actions or doing bad things to children.

4. where there is smoke, there is fire. An accusation of child molestation or abuse is nearly impossible to overcome, even when there is no evidence to support it. Lives have been ruined due to the damage done to reputations and the community suspicion of an individual. Of course men are paranoid about the accusation - they have every right to be because it seems like it turns into a witch hunt with no way to prove innocence.

I too am uncomfortable with my son going to public bathrooms in parks, more for the worry that he may observe something inappropriate mixed in with concern about dodgy characters who can be found in public bathrooms. But then he is 5 1/2 yrs old. Before he will be allowed to use a men's room by himself, we will have a long talk about what to be aware of in bathrooms.

Here is a scenario - my son sometimes has a hard time undoing or doing his trousers. He sometimes will ask whomever is standing near him for help. But no man unknown to the child in his right mind would touch the kid (and I wouldn't want them to) - but a woman may feel free to help a child without being worried of her innocent help turning into an accusation of abuse.

And we wonder why many men are not comfortable around children, acting as caregivers, or being stay at home dads?

Bravo! You've said it all so much better than I ever could.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
Again you are being too general, Tina. *Some* fathers hug their daughters and *sometimes* society has no issue with it. Other times a teenage daughter being lovingly caressed by her father raises inappropriate questions.

Not in any place I have ever lived in ... Thank goodness! Although I don't think I would use the word "caress."


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

To modify my previous post -- I wasn't meaning to imply that whenever a child gets molested, it's the parent's fault. I realize that you can be taking every precaution possible, and horrible things can still happen.

But, with the public restroom issue -- that is easily-resolvable. If anyone thinks their child is the sort who would say, "Yeah, I'm fine, Mom" while some strange person was molesting him -- obviously this is a child who shouldn't be using public restrooms alone yet. So take him with you or go with him to the men's room.

Again, considering the large numbers of posts here I've seen about husbands feeling just as vulnerable as my husband does, I just feel most men would prefer the discomfort of a mom barging in, over a potential accusation. Maybe I should go to the dads forum and do a poll?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I wonder how parents would feel if it was their 16-year-old son about whom another mother wondered out loud "did he TOUCH my child?"?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I had a feeling that someone would criticise me for even opening that door. But the possibility of a false accusation was what made my husband feel his life and wellbeing was hanging in the balance.

I don't even see it as a false accusation issue. What if your dh had bumped into the boy on his way out of the stall or something. (I've seen that happen a few times, especially when someone has been waiting for a stall - they try to barge in before the other person is completely out of the way.) If he wasn't entirely clear on what his mom meant - and he may not be, as I've found that really paranoid parents are often the same ones who can't bring themselves to talk clearly to their children about this stuff - he may have yelled "yes, mom"...and then it would have been _ugly_.

I'd have been very upset if I were your husband. I certainly wouldn't want a bunch of people in a park associating my face with a comment like that.

Quote:

As to the fear that was triggered in my dh, I don't know of any additional precautions he could take. Just wear Depends? Sometimes men have to use the restroom when they are out, just as everyone else does.
Yes. This.

Quote:

Again, it's just a lot easier to keep our own kids safe, than it is for others to defend their good name if we choose not to accompany our children into situations that we perceive as dangerous, and then get worried that because we weren't in that bathroom to protect them, they might have been "touched" by the only other person who was in there.
Yeah. I've been thinking about the posts wondering if this woman has been sexually abused. It's certainly possible. However, if I were paranoid enough to yell something like that about a man at a playground, I'd be finding other ways to deal with things. Either I'd call ahead into the men's room and let them know that a woman was coming in with a young boy, or I'd take him into the women's room, or, if I were willing to let him go in the men's room alone, I'd specifically ask "what's taking so long?", instead of a generic "are you okay?". If she'd done that, and heard "I'm waiting for a stall", she could have then been reassured that everything was okay, _or_ called her son back out to wait until the stall was empty.

Actually, thinking back 8 or 9 years, I can remember asking ds1 what was taking so long, from outside the men's room. (At least once, he was taking a long time, because he couldn't get the soap dispenser to work.)


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Things that make me go hmm....

I wonder if the 8 year old actually understood what she meant by "TOUCH". IMO it is not a very good word to use because it can mean all manner of things, including an accidental contact. As a pp mentioned, what if the boy barged past the OP's DH while trying to get into the stall, and they grazed past each other? He could have answered truthfully that yes, in fact, there had been contact, but he certainly wasn't molested.

I wonder if the mother is aware that there are other ways of being sexually assaulted than by being touched.

I wonder if the mother is aware of what she is teaching her child about the world by the way that she is treating others, especially strangers, when it has been documented that the vast majority of sexual abuse is perpetrated by people who are known to the victim. IMO it is possible to be effectively vigilant without being paranoid and accusatory.

I wonder what this mother's response would have been if her son's answer was "yes". Was she fully prepared for that possibility, and the appropriate steps to take?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

She must have known the answer was "no" or she would have run right in. I have no idea what that mother was thinking. She wasn't thinking - I think Brandi Rhodes is right that it had to be some emotional irrational reaction to something else.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
I wonder how parents would feel if it was their 16-year-old son about whom another mother wondered out loud "did he TOUCH my child?"?

Yes, I've wondered about this too -- and I also wanted to say thank you to Storm Bride, and to all of the others who've been so understanding of dh's and my reaction to this.

I did just post a poll over in the dad's forum -- in case any of you are interested. Maybe Musician Dad?


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
He was the only person stepping out of the bathroom at the time the mother made her comment. Making it obvious to him and anyone with in hearing distance that she viewed him as a pedophile.

I so disagree with this... She viewed him as a possible pedophile, I think there is a huge difference between questioning and accusing. I still don't agree with what she said, but I'm positive I've done things I regretted later in trying to protect my kids...she just reacted on her first instincts when she thought her kid was in danger, she most likely felt like an idiot for it later, but none of this makes her a bad person.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cinder* 
I so disagree with this... She viewed him as a possible pedophile, I think there is a huge difference between questioning and accusing.

I don't see a big difference, honestly. Viewing someone as a possible pedophile, because they walked out of a men's room, is really bizarre. Voicing that view, loudly enough for everyone around to hear, is so close to an accusation as to make no practical difference.

I'm absolutely boggled as to why anybody would think her kid was in danger. He went into a bathroom. She asked him several times if he was okay. He said, "yes". A man walked out of the bathroom. Where is the danger?


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

I read the first page and this last page.

_"Are you OKAY? Did somebody TOUCH you?!"_ This sounds more snarky than concerned to me. Like that mom was just irritable and flippant. It was thoughtless.

I'm sorry, Mammal Mama, that was unfair to your husband.


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

what a terrifying situation to all involved


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Swandira* 

I'm also a little sorry for the mom who was so fearful that she was behaving in this wildly inappropriate way, although if her fears are that extreme *I think maybe she should be seeing a counselor, if she isn't already doing that*.

Why do people automatically diagnose people and think they need couseling when they're suspect/leary of the opposite sex? It's possible there is nothing at all wrong with this woman--never a bad encounter with a man, etc. It's possible that she's just watched/read the news and talk shows like Phil and Oprah. The news and talk shows are reason enough to be suspect of men around children. It's not her fault. It's what society decides to broadcast....and the predators that DO exsist. There are evil people out there. You can't just look at someone and tell if they're a good person or a bad person. Husbands/fathers do rape and molest. That is a sad fact. I don't think it's bizzare in the least for mother's to be "on alert".

I don't think the woman should have yelled out "did he TOUCH you?" for everyone to hear, but I do understand where she's coming from. Like a pp said, if I was that concerned about my son in the men's room I would call in and wait for it to be empty before I sent my son inside. If he was in there for too long with another man I would have called him outside to wait.

I don't think the people at the waterpark thought your DH was a predator. They watch Oprah/Phil/news like most of the world. Most of the world knows what kind of evil people/doings exsist. You can't be too careful when it comes to your kids.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom* 
They still need hugs and every other day type touches. Dads out of fear and hold them back can make dd feel unloved. Many times girls need this type of attention more at this age and less hurts.

I agree with this. My own dad got very stiff with us after puberty... it made my sis and I feel bad.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
Why do people automatically diagnose people and think they need couseling when they're suspect/leary of the opposite sex?

Because honestly the behavior displayed by that mom in the OP was not at all normal nor was it appropriate.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
Why do people automatically diagnose people and think they need couseling when they're suspect/leary of the opposite sex?

Because, it's not normal to freak out about a _man_ leaving a _men's_ restroom, just because one's son is in there. Being that suspicious of someone, simply because they happened to be in the same room as one's child, is not normal behaviour.

Quote:

It's possible there is nothing at all wrong with this woman--never a bad encounter with a man, etc. It's possible that she's just watched/read the news and talk shows like Phil and Oprah. The news and talk shows are reason enough to be suspect of men around children. It's not her fault. It's what society decides to broadcast....and the predators that DO exsist. There are evil people out there. You can't just look at someone and tell if they're a good person or a bad person. Husbands/fathers do rape and molest. That is a sad fact. I don't think it's bizzare in the least for mother's to be "on alert".

I don't think the woman should have yelled out "did he TOUCH you?" for everyone to hear, but I do understand where she's coming from. Like a pp said, if I was that concerned about my son in the men's room I would call in and wait for it to be empty before I sent my son inside. If he was in there for too long with another man I would have called him outside to wait.
I don't understand where she was coming from, and her behaviour was irrational and unfair. Before she makes such nasty comments about someone, just for having a penis and needing to empty his bladder, she might want to think about the fact that her son _also_ has a penis. I don't think she'd much like it if someone reacted that way to her son using the bathroom, yk?

Being "on alert" is one thing. All that happened here is that this woman - who is apparently really freaked out about pedophiles - sent her son into a men's room, and a while later, a man walked out of said men's room. We cannot be _that_ paranoid, and still function as a society. People need to be able to pee, without being accused of being perverts.

I'm honestly boggled that this woman even let her son go in there, if she's that freaked out.

Quote:

You can't be too careful when it comes to your kids.
I disagree. This is too "careful". I can't help but wonder how a boy feels growing up with someone who apparently equates having a penis to being a predator. If she's that concerned, she needs to find a better way to handle it than making barely-veiled accusations of pedophilia in a public place.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
Because honestly the behavior displayed by that mom in the OP was not at all normal nor was it appropriate.

According to you and others who feel the same way. Unless something is written in the law book, nobody is right or wrong when it comes to other issues--spanking, CIO, co-sleeping, etc.

That mother did what she felt she needed to do to protect her child. Maybe the OP's husband seemed creepy to her. Maybe her gut told her to ask that question.

If an MDC mama came on here and said:

"We went to the water park and DS had to go to the bathroom. I sent him into the men's room by himself. He was in there for an awfully long time. I kept asking if he was okay and he said he was. Out of nowhere, a man walked out. I didn't think anyone was in there. It scared me. I yelled out the DS "did someone touch you?" to which he replied "no".

I think I embarrassed the guy and I feel really bad! But the vibe I got told me something wasn't right. I had a really bad feeling in my stomach and I called out to my son. It was a horrible experience. I feel really bad and need a hug. What would you have done?"

The responses might be a mix of "you were wrong" and "you were right" but I think it's safe to say that many responses would be "you were just following your gut. You always listen to your gut."

Nobody is right or wrong according to us. We all do what we feel we need to do


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
Why do people automatically diagnose people and think they need couseling when they're suspect/leary of the opposite sex? It's possible there is nothing at all wrong with this woman--never a bad encounter with a man, etc. It's possible that she's just watched/read the news and talk shows like Phil and Oprah. The news and talk shows are reason enough to be suspect of men around children. It's not her fault. It's what society decides to broadcast....and the predators that DO exsist. There are evil people out there. You can't just look at someone and tell if they're a good person or a bad person. Husbands/fathers do rape and molest. That is a sad fact. I don't think it's bizzare in the least for mother's to be "on alert".

I don't think the woman should have yelled out "did he TOUCH you?" for everyone to hear, but I do understand where she's coming from. Like a pp said, if I was that concerned about my son in the men's room I would call in and wait for it to be empty before I sent my son inside. If he was in there for too long with another man I would have called him outside to wait.

I don't think the people at the waterpark thought your DH was a predator. They watch Oprah/Phil/news like most of the world. Most of the world knows what kind of evil people/doings exsist. You can't be too careful when it comes to your kids.

Yikes! You certainly CAN be too careful...if you are feeding your kids on a steady stream of Dr. Phil and Oprah-induced fear maybe its time to turn off the noisy-box and read a good book. Hmmm...maybe I am more nonchalant about this kind of thing because I do not own a television. Media exacerbates an inappropriate culture of fear IMO.

Besides IRL so-called "evil" people are not all men. Predators come in all shapes, sizes, ages, and genders. Yet women are simply not seen with the same social suspicion.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
"We went to the water park and DS had to go to the bathroom. I sent him into the men's room by himself. He was in there for an awfully long time. I kept asking if he was okay and he said he was. *Out of nowhere, a man walked out. I didn't think anyone was in there. It scared me.* I yelled out the DS "did someone touch you?" to which he replied "no".

This is the point. Being scared by a man using and exiting the men's bathroom is a gross overreaction, and implying that his very presence in the bathroom is suspect is unfair and paranoid.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:

Nobody is right or wrong according to us. We all do what we feel we need to do








Uh... _nobody_, really?

No this mom's behavior was irrational.

Quote:

"We went to the water park and DS had to go to the bathroom. I sent him into the men's room by himself. He was in there for an awfully long time. I kept asking if he was okay and he said he was. Out of nowhere, a man walked out. I didn't think anyone was in there. It scared me. I yelled out the DS "did someone touch you?" to which he replied "no".
I would say "it's a public restroom why did you expect to know how many people were in there? Of course there were probably others there. And why ask if someone touched him? Simply because someone was utilizing a public restroom?"


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
This is the point. Being scared by a man using and exiting the men's bathroom is a gross overreaction, and implying that his very presence in the bathroom is suspect is unfair and paranoid.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
According to you and others who feel the same way. Unless something is written in the law book, nobody is right or wrong when it comes to other issues--spanking, CIO, co-sleeping, etc.

That mother did what she felt she needed to do to protect her child. Maybe the OP's husband seemed creepy to her. Maybe her gut told her to ask that question.

If an MDC mama came on here and said:

"We went to the water park and DS had to go to the bathroom. I sent him into the men's room by himself. He was in there for an awfully long time. I kept asking if he was okay and he said he was. Out of nowhere, a man walked out. I didn't think anyone was in there. It scared me. I yelled out the DS "did someone touch you?" to which he replied "no".

I think I embarrassed the guy and I feel really bad! But the vibe I got told me something wasn't right. I had a really bad feeling in my stomach and I called out to my son. It was a horrible experience. I feel really bad and need a hug. What would you have done?"

The responses might be a mix of "you were wrong" and "you were right" but I think it's safe to say that many responses would be "you were just following your gut. You always listen to your gut."

Nobody is right or wrong according to us. We all do what we feel we need to do









Yes. I think people should listen to their guts. However, I would still find the OP's scenario totally bizarre, even from the mother's side. The "I yelled out to ds "did someone touch you?" part of it is just totally off. If I were worried, I'd go in there.

As for the "I kept asking if he was okay"? Again - really off. If you're worried, ask what's taking so long, or call him back and talk to him. Standing there asking repeatedly if he's okay isn't going to accomplish anything. She obviously didn't think she could trust the response, for whatever reason, so why bother asking? (I'm not blaming her for not trusting the response. If she really thought the OP's dh was a pervert, maybe she thought he had a knife or something. Who knows? But, if she doesn't feel that standing outside, repeatedly saying, "are you okay?" accomplishes anything, there's not much point in doing it.)

And, yes - it's still wrong to publicly accuse someone of being a pervert, because he was using a bathroom. We can split hairs over whether or not it was an accusation, but she was definitely expressing suspicion, based on nothing but his gender, in a very public way. When we get to an "OMG - did someone (obviously meaning a specific person) _touch_ you?" simply because a man walks out of a men's bathroom, things are going haywire. The people in the picnic area don't know that the only reason she said it was because he was in the bathroom at the same time as her son...and many, many people subscribe to the ridiculous notion that "where there's smoke, there's fire".


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
This is the point. Being scared by a man using and exiting the men's bathroom is a gross overreaction, and implying that his very presence in the bathroom is suspect is unfair and paranoid.

Or...I could have just said this.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

I have no problem with following one's gut and I often find it is rarely wrong. However if mom got a feeling something was off don't you think she would have just walked in? I would have. If I felt like something was a miss I would have been in that bathroom so quick it'd make your head spin.


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## junie (Jan 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
According to you and others who feel the same way. Unless something is written in the law book, nobody is right or wrong when it comes to other issues--spanking, CIO, co-sleeping, etc.

Okay, this might be a bit off topic, but this comment rubbed me the wrong way. Just because something is "written in the law book" does NOT make it right. Slavery used to be legal. It was NEVER right. A husband used to be legally allowed to rape and beat his wife. This was NEVER right. Law does not equal right. A lot of things that are legal should not be legal, and many things that aren't legal (same-sex marriage comes to mind) SHOULD be legal. In the examples you list above, two of them are abuse (spanking and CIO). Yes they're legal, but that doesn't make them right.

I think I get what you're saying. We all have our own opinions of right and wrong, and none of us should judge others. Is that it? I somewhat agree with this, but without "judging" others, people would never be held accountable for their actions, and things like slavery, spousal abuse etc. would never have become illegal. Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating going around and judging everyone for every little thing. I just think it's dangerous to take the attitude that we should never call someone else out on their behaviour, if we think it's wrong (regardless of what the law says). I could be completely misreading your post, though. If I am, I apologize.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
Out of nowhere, a man walked out.

It wasn't out of nowhere. It was out of the men's room. It is irrational to be that shocked that a man would be in the men's room and to respond in that way. I don't doubt that she had her reasons for behaving irrationally, but that was not a normal response. If she really did think her son was being molested, the rational response would have been to run in. No mom who was thinking rationally would sit there on the other side of a door from where she thought her child was being hurt and wonder how long it would take and when he would come out.

I don't think she's a bad person, but I do think she behaved in an irrational manner, probably prompted by some bad experience. It's just a sad thing for everyone. I don't think there's anything that can be done to solve this kind of problem. You can't force people to behave in a rational manner at all times, or put aside their experiences and fears, because people don't do these things on purpose. Unfortunate things happen.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
It wasn't out of nowhere. It was out of the men's room. It is irrational to be that shocked that a man would be in the men's room and to respond in that way.

Yeah, I can't understand being surprised by a man leaving the mens room.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BrandiRhoades* 
<snip>
*There's really no difference in "are you okay" and "did someone touch you" other than directness*. Yes, "are you okay" can refer to any problem the child was having, but he easily could've said "yes, this guy is trying to touch my penis." Yeah, that could've happened as a result of the question "are you okay," but it didn't. The actual rate of false accusations of sexual abuse is extremely low, and I think urban legends are influencing the fear about false accusations.<snip>

Bolding mine...

Hold the train, let's back up a bit. Yes there most certainly IS a difference between "Did someone touch you?" and "Are you ok?" The biggest one being, yelling "Are you ok?" doesn't imply anything about anyone else. Secondarily, it keeps you from looking like someone who lacks the control to deal with everyday public situations.

I AM a survivor of abuse.

I understand that fear is a very real thing.

If I really thought someone was attacking my child (boy OR girl), I wouldn't be hollering at the door - I'd be barging right in.

Saying things that re-enforce her belief that men are all potential predators is wrong.

Going about saying things that project her belief that every man is a potential attacker is harmful for this woman, it is harmful for her son and it is harmful for society.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

and in addition, while the woman's accusation may not have had any legal weight to it, the potential damage to a man's reputation is enormous. What if Mammal_mama's dh knew one of the people in the park? What if a neighbor or other aquaintance had been in view of the situation?

Accusations of pedophilia tend to take on a life of their own - guilty until proven innocent, only you can never really prove yourself innocent once an accusation is made. While CPS and the law may do nothing about the accusation, lives have been ruined by slander.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

She should've told her ds that if he had to wait he should come back out to her. (Like Jenn said.







)

ETA: There were men in their group? Then one of them should've taken the kid.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siobhang* 
and in addition, while the woman's accusation may not have had any legal weight to it, the potential damage to a man's reputation is enormous. What if Mammal_mama's dh knew one of the people in the park? What if a neighbor or other aquaintance had been in view of the situation?
*
Accusations of pedophilia tend to take on a life of their own - guilty until proven innocent,* only you can never really prove yourself innocent once an accusation is made. While CPS and the law may do nothing about the accusation, lives have been ruined by slander.

This is sadly very true.


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