# Question for stillbirth mamas (VERY graphic)



## TrinitysMama

This is pretty graphic, so be forewarned.

According to the midwives I had the first time around, my baby wasn't dead until the day before I actually delivered her. It was apparently a cord accident due to fluid loss. (I mentioned to the midwives that I noticed that she wasn't moving as much and that I thought I might be losing fluid. They blew me off every time. After all, I was just a first time mom. What could I possibly know about my own body?







: )

She was born on a Saturday and my last prenatal appointment was the Tuesday before that. At that appointment, the midwife took at least 5 minutes to find her heartbeat. She couldn't get cord sounds or anything. I know now that its pretty hard not to find heart tones on a 33 weeker. I had a doppler with my last pregnancy and even without training I could find her heartbeat easily.

When Trinity was born, she looked very bad. There was a lot of slippage. Her arms and legs looked like they had been burned. Before handing her to me, the nurses took her over and had to pretty much reshape her to make her look like a baby again. Within about an hour after her birth, her head started to lose shape. We were very lucky that we managed to get one picture of her that turned out ok. (It had to be changed to b&w though because it was way too graphic in color.) We could not have her embalmed because she was in such bad condition and because of that, her body was not actually present at her memorial.

I can't help but think that her little body wouldn't have looked that bad if she had only been gone for two days. I swear that she was already gone by my last prenatal appointment and that the heartbeat the mw "found" was mine and not my baby's.

For those of you who have experienced a stillbirth, what kind of condition was your baby in? I know from doing a lot of reading in here that some of you lost your babies during labor and others lost them several days before they were born. I believe with all of my heart that Trinity was already dead at my last prenatal. Going by your own experiences, what do you think?


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## Ms. Mom

Erin,

My heart goes out to you. I know from personal experience how hard that is.

When Amanda was born her face was so red and out of shape. Her hands and feet were perfect and I've since held onto that part of her in my mind.

She died on December 7th and I gave birth to her on the 14th, so she had been gone a week. Nobody warned me that she would look like that and I was very shocked at the time and disapointed that I couldn't see her as physically beautiful.

It is very common for a stillborn baby to have slipage like this. As soon as the oxygen is cut off, the body beings to break down. I belong to an organization called Heartsongs and I've communicated with many women in this situation. It's helped knowing I wasn't alone.

Are you having difficulty processing this? Or just wondering if others have experienced this?

I had a very difficult time processing that she wasn't 'perfect'.

Don't worry about being graphic. This forum is here so we can talk about these things freely. It's a safe place for you to talk and heal.

What do you remember about Trinity? As I mentioned, Amanda's hands and feet were perfect. I remember running my fingers down her chubby arms. Her finger nails were so delicate and beautiful. I was shocked by the condition of her head and chest. It was very hard to process at the time.

However, I was so blessed to have 2 nurses with me who were experienced in this. The one who handed her to me said "She's very beautiful. Look at her lips, they're shaped like yours" It took months for this comment to bring me comfort, but now it means a great deal to me.


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## TrinitysMama

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had the same experience. Mostly because I really feel like Trinity had been gone a lot longer than just a day or two.

I think the thing that startled me the most about Trinity was that her little mouth was open. I had no idea what to expect as far as her looks. I thought she would be blue or grey. She was very red. Her lips were soooo dark. I definitely didn't expect that. Dh never even held her. When I held her, I was afraid to touch her. I only would touch the blankets. At one point, I did get to touch the back of her neck. It was so soft.

She had dark curly hair like Dh and had his mouth. Really, she didn't look much like me at all. I just knew that Lily would look just like her when she was born. (As it turns out, Lily is a carbon copy of me!)

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I have never really talked to anyone that has been through this. It's so good to know that I'm not the only one.


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## queencarr

First of all, I wanted to say how sorry I am for you. I can also say from experience how hard dealing with it all can be.

In my case, we thought our baby Samantha had died the day before she was born (because I was feeling motion I thought), but after she was delivered the estimate was about 5-7 days because of her condition. For us, her face was not peeling, however, her ankles and wrists and under her neck to her chest were. She had a soft gellish feeling as well. Her head did not lose shape for several hours, at least 5 hours, as that is when we gave her to the hospital staff as she was beginning to degrade more and it was time for us in our own minds. We didn't take pictures immediately, and there is some degradation in the ones we took, mostly discoloration from internal bleeding in her brain. For the first few minutes she had relatively normal coloring. It is much more obvious in the pictures that the hospital took several hours later, and the skin slippage is much more severe and raw looking, and her head is misshapen. In some pics it is difficult to tell it is the same baby.

I thought that I had been feeling motion that week, it was apparently her floating and bumping and although the pattern had changed, she was a very quiet baby, often not moving much at all, so not unusual for us, and I was at the point in pg where we expected to feel her "calm down" and settle. I was almost 29 weeks when she was born, so she was smaller and moved around a bit more after death that later, larger babies who are born still.

The 5-7 days fits, as that is when I began noticing the changes in motion, the last time I know for certain that I felt her move was 8 days before she was born, and I had a sense of "irrational" panic about 6-7 days (at 28 weeks) before she was born. At the time, we chalked it up to fears from a previous pg, as my ds was a 30w preemie, and I started having severe complications at around 28 weeks in that pg, so I did not go in because I thought it was just in my head and I had previous nervous moments simiilar to this through out my pg. I still wonder if there would have been time to get her out had I done that, but it is something I can't let myself think about.

I hope this helps provide you with some of the answers you are looking for. If it would help you, I would be willing to email you some of her pictures if that is something you need. Please know that there are others that have been down this road, and we are all here for support. I second the idea of a feature that you can focus on. For us, it was the pertect fingernails and hands. Our mother's took impression of her hands and feet at the funeral home a couple of days later as they dressed her (we had a closed casket and our Mom's asked that dh and I not view her dressed as we had planned to do because of further breakdown; however she was embalmed as she was buried out of state) , and that is what I choose to see. Something else that I was able to do, I scaned some pics and digitally recolored the areas that were off. Although it is still dark, the coloring is very similar to the my preemie son's first pics, and it allows me to see her as my mind pictures her.

Carrie


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## KatherineinCA

Erin,

I'm short on time right now. But I want to let you know that based on my experience (what I have been told by several labor nurses and the OB, and what I have been told spiritually), my son had also died before my last prenatal appt., during which the midwives believed they heard his heartbeat. Based on your description of your baby, I believe this is also what happened with your daughter. One of my best friends is a L&D nurse, so she has seen quite a few stillborn babies. She was present during my c-section, and she said that when Kevin was born, everyone in the OR knew he had been dead longer than two days, because of his condition. (My prenatal appt. was on a Thursday, the c-section was Sunday--3 days later). In fact, the autopsy report concluded he had been dead "several days, if not longer." From your description, Trinity was in worse shape than Kevin, and I am sure that Kevin had been dead one-two weeks.

When I think back on the end of the pregnancy, I remember not feeling as much movement and being concerned. But then I would feel something, and remind myself that babies run out of room at the end. Now I realize that the baby would still be bumping up against the uterus, so there would still be some sort of movement, especially with low fluid. By the time he was born, there was no more fluid ("bone dry" is the exact description they used). I posted on this issue on the Midwives and Doulas board, but I have no idea if it's still there. Someone there posted two links to articles with criteria to determine the time of death for an unborn baby. When I have time (I'm babysitting my friend's daughters, due to arrive any minute now!), I'll look at those guidelines and hopefully find the links for you.

I can also find the link to a site with a picture of a friend's stillborn daughter who died during labor. She looks like an alive, sleeping baby, with absolutely no discoloration. When I saw that picture I realized that Kevin had not died during labor. There is no way. And that's what my L&D nurse friend told me, too. She has seen babies who just barely died, and they don't have the same degree of discoloration and deterioration that Kevin had and that you're describing with Trinity.

Another L&D nurse friend has told me that they still make mistakes with the heartbeat in the hospital, with the up-to-date equipment, too. So why isn't it possible for the midwives to make a mistake? Especially if mom is stressed and her heartbeat is elevated.

Okay, got to go. I will work on finding that other information for you. It actually feels good to be able to use what I've learned for someone else. How often does anyone want to hear these kinds of details about our experiences, right?!

Much love to you,
Katherine


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## Clarity

my ds was dead we think about 18-24 hours...there was the slack open mouth, with blood. the beginning of skin slippage - more after he was bathed. he was a normal color, but within 4 hours was quite dark in the face and a lot more disturbing, the plates in the head, also due to muscle slackness, were very movable. birth trauma makes a big difference...he was c-sec. i expect his head wold have been smashed and a lot more skin off if a vag delivery. Myabe this could have cuased the difference?

my dd, who died at 23 weeks delivered at 36 was quite crushed and grey - mummified really. i described her as something you'd see in formaldehyde on the x-files. i love her, but pretty she was not. Before she was born I found a site through google with pics of demised twins (medical) and many were quite graphic...so the reality was better then what I was prepared for. Not every baby is beautiful...but they are still our babes.

if you join a loss group you will probably have the chance to see some others pictures if you feel the need.


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## Ms. Mom

There's so much I want to say to all of you







but no words can express how I'm feeling. My heart goes out to you and your families.

Thank you all for sharing such painfull memories. I think it helps to know the realities and know that not only 'your' baby was born in this condition.

As I said, Amanda's head was pretty mishapen. As someone else said - almost gell like. Her lips looked like she had some odd lipstick on and her chest was pretty bad.

I was so surprised that her feet and hands were so perfect. Just like a living baby.

In my case, I'm POSITIVE I felt her on December 6. She was never an active baby, but a co-worker came by and she was being active. She kept her hand on my belly for a long time. On the 7th, I think I felt her move, but, by 4:00 my tummy was rock hard and I knew something was not right.

I thought it must be contractions (I'd been having them since 5 months). That evening I had very odd dreams and my husband told me "I can't feel her" in the morning.

I went to work in a daze knowing something wasn't right. I called the doctor and we went for an ultrasound. I just remember her body floating and limp. I had been on Tributilain (sp?) to stop contractions and it took FOREVER for them to get labor started.

I'm sure it was 7 days that she was dead inside of me.


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## XM

Erin, I think you are right about how long Trinity was gone.

Xiola died minutes before she was born, and she looked like a perfect sleeping newborn. We were lucky enough to get lots of pictures of her at this time. We actually kept her with us for about 12 hours before she started to look more red (not breaking down, just color change), and that's when we gave her to the staff. They took pictures against our wishes and in those pics she really does look very dead, it was so hard for me to get those... I had assumed that they were nursery pics but the fool nurse had just laid her on a bed naked and her head was all cocked to the side... I am still trying to forget those horrible pictures. I can't beleive they took them after we had repeatedly told them NOT to. We felt pretty violated, to put it mildly.

Two and a half months after Xiola's death, I was called to the bedside of another mama who had lost her baby during labor. However, when he was delivered by c-section, it was obvious that he had not died recently. The autopsy said he died 24-36 hours before he was born. She showed me the nursery pic they took of him, and after a day he was having some slippage (there was a little 'blister' above his lip) but he still looked like a sleeping baby to me... so if Trinity had only died the day before, I don't think you would have seen the extensive slippage you did. This little guy had some bad spots after being gone a day but he was still pretty much together.

XM


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## Ms. Mom

XM thank you so much for comming into this thread. It must be hard to read at this time in your life









From what I've read and researched the breakdown of the baby has a lot to do with the the placenta. In my case, the placenta detatched and was in VERY bad shape. I think that's why there was so much deteriation. My very close friend lost her dd due to a cord accident. It took her 4 days to deliver, the placenta was perfect and the baby was in very good shape. Her lips were very red and her frontal was very sunkin, but otherwise she looked like a sleeping newborn.

It seems the placenta is very important in protecting our delicate babies.


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## ellery

let me tell my story. Ellery was 2 weeks early with weird show when my water broke. Anyway after 4 hrs of labor and 1 of pushing he came to the world with the biggest conehead i had ever seen and was not breathing. They had to resusitate. He was blue-grey and very limp. They got him back and he pinked up and was the most beautiful thing i hda ever seen. By the time morning came he was doing a weird twitching thing so they took him to another hospital to better care for him. They thought it was all kinds of things it ended up being a huge blood clot in his aortic arch. He was taken to open heart surgery at a little o ver a day old and they got the clot out but lost him several times on the table. Anway when we finally got to see him he had tubes and wires everywhere. He had the curliest black hair and looked just like his dad. Needless to say he made it through the night and the next day we had to let him go due to no brain activity. About 30 people celebrated his life with us that day.All of us even trhanurses and doctors cried and laughed with us. It was the best worst experience of my life. So im truly sorry for your losses it will get better and im lucky enogh to have several pictures of him to look at every day.His little brother looks just like him. Remeber everthing happens for a reason and they are always with u. Spiritualiity books like signal by joel rothsman, john edward and sylvia browne really helped me and try a trip to a well known physic, Seriously what a great help. Good luck if u need to mail me id be more than happy to respond.Good luck.


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## Mutherluv

I am almost certain of the time frame from my babies last movement, and delivery. It is kind of a strange coincedence. I was 36 weeks along, it was a very uneventful prengnancy, no problems ect..One evening I was watching TV with my kids, we were flipping throught the channels when I started watching the E-true story about the actress that plays Peggy Bundy on Married with children. She began talking about the stillbirth of her son. My daughter asked what that was, and I explained it to her, and told her not to worry, ther was nothing wrong with our baby. The very next morning, after breakfast, I didn't feel any movement. He always moved after I ate. Because i had watched that show, I paniced. I called my Dr. They told me to drink something sweet, and lye down on my left side, and count the movements. There were none, of course, he was gone. That was Thrusday Aug 17. Guido was born Saturday Aug 19, 2000. I am sure that he died Wed night after I went to bed. He was a very active baby, and always moved alot.

The delivery is a blurr. I didn't end up needing an autopsy. It was death due to 2 knots in his cord, and it was wrapped around his neck twice. As for his condition, he looked beautiful. He did have very dark lips, but the rest of his face was pink. The nurses put on a hat and bundled him in a blanket. I didn't unwrap him. I just stroked his little face. After I gave him to the staff, they took me to my room and took some pictures of him. The one they took of me holding him looks great. You can't even tell he's gone. The ones they took later, he had began to look bruised.

The doc did pic up a sound in the office. It turned out to be my heart, which was flying. So, you are probably right in guessing that your baby was already gone at your appointment. I sometimes think that a non-stress test could have saved my babies life.

I just wanted to say how sorry I am for your loss, and all the mama's that have responded. I am so glad I found this site, its such a help


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## Ms. Mom

Mutherluv, big hugs to you









It must have seemd like a bad dream that you would eventually wake from after watching that show. I too watched her talking about her stillbirth. It was a few years after mine.

How did you handle talking to the kids after that? It must have been such a challenge to explain it after the show.

A NST may or may not have picked things up. Ds had his cord wraped around his neck and shoulder. They never noticed in the NST's that I was getting 2x a week. I had access fluid and they did an ultrasound to check muscle coordination. They didn't see the cord in the ultrasound either. He did show signs of distress though, so they induced labor. I remember the look on the doctors face when ds's head started comming out. He immediately cut me and reached in and grabbed him. Ds was a bit blue but soon screamed his lungs out! I can still see the doctor unwinding the cord from his shoulder and the look on his face. Had they known, they would have done a C-Section. But the cord was not visiable in the ultrasound.

My stillborn daughter had several weak spots in her cord and the placenta was not formed correctly. Again, this was not evident in an ultrasound or NST. It's amazing that she lasted 38 weeks in my womb.


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## Mutherluv

It was very hard to tell the children. My husband was away with the reserves, so in a panic, I rushed to my Dr office with the girls. They were 9&10 at the time. The were in the waiting room. I first had an nst, but became hysterical when the nurse couldn't find the heartbeat right away. I was taken to a private exam room, the doc came in with a dopler. She found a tone, which was my heart. I am still amazed I didn't have a cardiac arrest! I had to wait 15 more minutes for an ultrasound, I remember without being told, the look on the face of the technition, and the doctor. I just wanted to jump off the table and run, but I had to wait for measurements ect.

The girls knew by the look on my face that things were not good. I called my mom, she was working at the bank, she said she doesn't even remember leaving. The girls were very sad. I don't know if it was because he never came home with us, but they recovered really quickly. I am very lucky to have a very supportive family, they helped so much. The girls are very close with ds #2. I don't know if they were nervous about him being born or not. I think most kids think things will work out. They did come to many of my appointments. My Mia was the one that held my hand during my amnio(to check for lung maturity) the day before I was induced for ds#2. When you read about tragedy in a thread like this, it really makes me count my blessing, and so glad to meet new friends.


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