# I grabbed the doc's hand off my son's penis!



## DeannaK

I will never, ever, ever go back to this pediatrican again, nor will I ever, ever, ever do a well baby visit again.

Yesterday my boys (twins) had their 1 year WBV. First baby up, she checks his penis and begins to pull back on his foreskin. I don't know how I did it, it just happened, maternal instinct I guess, but I grabbed her hand off my son's penis and said, "oh no, we don't do that". I think we were both shocked. I felt really nervous at first and then a half-second later I was so proud of myself I just beemed like an idiot!







I must have glowed I was so proud.

She proceeded to give me bad advice, draw pictures, threaten me that the urine will be not be able to escape and it will cause a huge bubble under the foreskin, yada yada, yada.

I told her I have read up on this a lot and that her information is wrong and outdated. I told her that by tearing that foreskin off the gland I would be opening my sons up to infection, not protecting them from infection. She was non to pleased with me.

Then we had a discussion on BLW, which is a whole different thread. But basically I was told that I'm lucky my kids never choked!

Really ... I find it scary how misinformed, uniformed or just plain pig headed doctors can be. I'm sure she thinks I'm a know-it-all, doctor-playing crunchy psycho. But at least I'm an informed one!


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## mamabadger

Kudos for your lightning fast mother bear reflexes.









Upsetting as her ignorance may be, your argument may have long term benefits. You will never see her again, but she may do a little research as a result of your conflict (probably not, but you never know) and the next baby boy she examines might do better as a result.


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## KGB

I think that most doctors treat uncircumcised penises like they do with circumcised penises (retract to prevent adhesion). As they encounter more and more intact boys with educated parents, they will soon learn the proper way to care for intact penises which they apparently didn't learn in medical school.

All these forced retraction stories are starting to worry me about bringing my future kid to WBVs. I'm going to start every visit by saying, "My son is peeing fine. You can look at his penis, but don't touch!"


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## Night_Nurse

Good for you, mama! I'm sorry that happened. It always amazes me that so many doctors don't know proper foreskin anatomy and care. And why are so many doctors nervous to have babies nurse for more than 6 months or so???
Again, I'm sorry your doctor isn't up to date on her information. You might check in Finding Your Tribe to see if someone can recommend a better informed doctor in your area.


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## luv-my-boys

heres my advice as a mom and nurse:

in all reality there are very few reasons a diaper even needs to come off if they insist then simply say "I do not feel comfortable with anyone physically touching my child's genitals." if you ok with them "looking" you might want to say " I will let you examine it with a tongue depresser...(it will be very hard to retract with a tongue depresser but you still need to be vigilant0 basically its to lift and move the penis to get a look at the scrotum and penis. This way the dr gets a look at the childs genitals and it becomes a little harder to retract. Or you can simply state I will allow you to look only and if you need be to move his penis so that you can better see his scrotum *I* will move it. Angle the baby so that you are in the way and they have to be a bystander sort of hover over you.


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## NettleTea

I find it really strange how it is completely normal to expect the diaper to come off every time a baby is taken to a doctor. There's no reason for it. How can it not seem perverted for a baby's genitals to be touched, held, stared at, etc at pretty much every doctor visit? I mean, if they've been examined once then what else is there to see? Unless, of course, the visit is specifically related to a problem with the genitals. But I've noticed that is rarely the case.

This is not okayuke


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## eepster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NettleTea* 
I find it really strange how it is completely normal to expect the diaper to come off every time a baby is taken to a doctor. There's no reason for it. How can it not seem perverted for a baby's genitals to be touched, held, stared at, etc at pretty much every doctor visit? I mean, if they've been examined once then what else is there to see? Unless, of course, the visit is specifically related to a problem with the genitals. But I've noticed that is rarely the case.

This is not okayuke

If you have a reasonable Dr there is a point to checking the area. To make sure there are no issues with an undescended testicle, and to see if there is any diaper rash or yeast infection etc.

However, if there is a reason one doesn't trust the Dr, a parent can be informed about what to look for. At one visit the Dr did a quick check and couldn't find one of DS's testicles, but then he decided he didn't want her to look anymore, so she explained to me in detail what to look for when he was in a cooperative mood at home. Though she wasn't too concerned, she had found it at past visits and thought it probably just retreated b/c the office was kind of chilly that day. It was reasonably easy for me to establish that both of DS's testicles descended after a warm bath, but if the Dr hadn't both told me there might be an issue and what to look for I never would have known to check.


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## nsmomtobe

My doctor always takes off my son's diaper to "check his hips" and he is done before I realize he has started. He's never touched the penis as far as I have seen.


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## dogretro

After hearing so many Dr retraction stories here, IF we ever have a boy, my plan is to tell the dr BEFORE the diaper is taken off that my son is intact & the dr is for NO reason to retract the foreskin. If they question this, I will already have a print-out ready in my diaper bag that I will happily hand to them









IME, the diaper is taken off for several reasons. One is to check the hips, esp in young & breech babies. Two, girls can develop labial adhesions & the parents may not know this. The dr needs to gently spread the labia majora to see that the minora are not stuck together. Adhesions can become serious, so it is important. Three, drs are mandated reporters & must check for signs of abuse & neglect. Four, we use cloth diapers & in young infants, they weigh by lbs & oz, so the diaper has to come all the way off before baby goes on the scale.

Again, I think the important thing here is to TELL THE DR BEFORE THE DIAPER IS REMOVED.\

PS, I would have totally grabbed the dr's hand, too, so good for you!


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## NettleTea

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
To make sure there are no issues with an undescended testicle, and to see if there is any diaper rash or yeast infection etc.

None of those things involve touching the penis (unless a rash or yeast is around the penis), yet it seems that most doctors would still use the above circumstances as a reason to go there.

Unless I am mistaken, checking for an undescended testicle is a one-time thing.

Personally, I do not find it necessary for my doctor to remove my son's diaper to check for yeast or diaper rash as I am more than capable of recognizing those things myself.

Again, it really seems to me that in most cases of removing the diaper it is simply to perform these "penis inspections". If it were the case of an undescended testicle or diaper rash/yeast then why is the penis even being handled? That only offers yet another opportunity for forced retraction.

Most of this probably comes down to what you said regarding having a "reasonable doctor". It seems that is very key. A "reasonable doctor" most likely wouldn't be handling the penis unless there was a solid reason for doing so (hopefully).

I hope my post doesn't sound snarky. Not intended. I'm trying to understand these things as it seems that anytime I read about a baby going to the doctor something about the diaper coming off is always mentioned regardless of the reason for the visit. And then inevitably forced retraction takes place. So why even allow the diaper to come off unless the reason for the visit involves something under the diaper?


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## NettleTea

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dogretro* 

IME, the diaper is taken off for several reasons. One is to check the hips, esp in young & breech babies. Two, girls can develop labial adhesions & the parents may not know this. The dr needs to gently spread the labia majora to see that the minora are not stuck together. Adhesions can become serious, so it is important. Three, drs are mandated reporters & must check for signs of abuse & neglect. Four, we use cloth diapers & in young infants, they weigh by lbs & oz, so the diaper has to come all the way off before baby goes on the scale.

Yeah, so I'm thinking the diaper removal definitely does come down to having a reasonable doctor. One that can be trusted....perhaps.

But I still am seeing a lot of situations in which the diaper is coming off for none of the reasons mentioned in this thread and seemingly no reason at all. It seems it is "just because". I hope I am wrong.


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## DeannaK

Thanks everyone for your advice/condolences/support/ etc.

What it boils down to for me, a mom of 3 beautiful, intact boys, is trusting the doctor I take my kids to. Especially with twins when I'm fumbling with one baby or another. Had I turned my back to help the other baby for a second, what might that pediatrician have done? I need to trust the doctor that I see.

Furthermore, I can't take my children back to her because I won't be able to trust or believe in her advice should they really become sick and need medical care. The information she gave me on "dealing" with an uncircumcised penis was ridiculous. And like someone said earlier, we must voice our outrage and give these doctors the correct information. Furthermore, I intend to write her a letter, including information on cleaning and caring for uncircumcised penises and explain to her the reason I'm removing my kids from her care. If she is ill informed on something as important and basic and this subject, than I have no faith in her advice in other important matters.


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## claddaghmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NettleTea* 
None of those things involve touching the penis (unless a rash or yeast is around the penis), yet it seems that most doctors would still use the above circumstances as a reason to go there.

Unless I am mistaken, checking for an undescended testicle is a one-time thing.

Personally, I do not find it necessary for my doctor to remove my son's diaper to check for yeast or diaper rash as I am more than capable of recognizing those things myself.

Again, it really seems to me that in most cases of removing the diaper it is simply to perform these "penis inspections". If it were the case of an undescended testicle or diaper rash/yeast then why is the penis even being handled? That only offers yet another opportunity for forced retraction.

Most of this probably comes down to what you said regarding having a "reasonable doctor". It seems that is very key. A "reasonable doctor" most likely wouldn't be handling the penis unless there was a solid reason for doing so (hopefully).

I hope my post doesn't sound snarky. Not intended. I'm trying to understand these things as it seems that anytime I read about a baby going to the doctor something about the diaper coming off is always mentioned regardless of the reason for the visit. And then inevitably forced retraction takes place. So why even allow the diaper to come off unless the reason for the visit involves something under the diaper?









I agree with this. I keep hearing IRL a lot of defending going on for doctors who handle baby boy genitals. That is just the weirdest thing to me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dogretro* 
IME, the diaper is taken off for several reasons. One is to check the hips, esp in young & breech babies. Two, girls can develop labial adhesions & the parents may not know this. The dr needs to gently spread the labia majora to see that the minora are not stuck together. Adhesions can become serious, so it is important. Three, drs are mandated reporters & must check for signs of abuse & neglect. Four, we use cloth diapers & in young infants, they weigh by lbs & oz, so the diaper has to come all the way off before baby goes on the scale.


Yes, the diaper came off with my permission one time, at DD's first visit after birth. He showed me how to move her hips to check for dysplasia (already knew) and how to inspect for adhesions (already knew).

Although even checking for adhesions seems a bit hokey, especially if it is done more than once. That's too close to "let's rip it apart." Adhesion can be treated without retraction.


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## Fyrestorm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DeannaK* 
Furthermore, I intend to write her a letter, including information on cleaning and caring for uncircumcised penises and explain to her the reason I'm removing my kids from her care. If she is ill informed on something as important and basic and this subject, than I have no faith in her advice in other important matters.

I believe it's either DOC or ARClaw that will send a letter pro bono for you. It might be more eye opening coming from an Atty.

Hope someone here has the actual info and e-mail to pass along.


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## Crunchy Frog

Here's some info taken from glongley's post on another thread. (I hope she will forgive me for quoting her without permission.)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glongley* 

The attorney for Doctors Opposing Circumcision, John Geisheker, will send a letter to the doctor/nurse/hospital pro bono (free) on your behalf telling them what they did was wrong and the consequences. It isn't a letter stating you'll sue, but it is not likely to earn you any friends at the doctor's office. It is fully referenced and ought to get their attention, and should be very educational for them.

Email him at [email protected]

Before you contact John, you will need the following information:

The name of the doctor or nurse who did this, the name of his/her practice and their (snail) mailing address.

The name of the hospital where the doctor has privileges, (the hospital where they practice) and the mailing address. (even if it didn't happen at the hospital)

The name of the CEO or Administrator of the hospital. (even if it didn't happen in the hospital, find out where the offending doctor has privileges and send it to those hospitals)

The name of the hospital's risk manager.

The name of the head of the department (OB, peds, emergency, etc.)

Baby's name, date of birth, age.
Full detailed narrative of incident, what you were told, aftereffects.

Letters will also be sent to:

The state medical board in your state.

The Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations (hospitals fear them like a boogeyman)

John V. Geisheker, JD
DoctorsOpposingCircumcision.org
1727--14th Ave., Suite #5
Seattle, WA 98122
Tel / fax +1. 206. 568. 0566
Cell +1. 206. 465. 6636

Gillian


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NettleTea* 
None of those things involve touching the penis (unless a rash or yeast is around the penis), yet it seems that most doctors would still use the above circumstances as a reason to go there.

Some would, and that's not okay, but the issue there is handling the penis, not removing the diaper.

Quote:

Unless I am mistaken, checking for an undescended testicle is a one-time thing.
I'd have to look into that. I do recall taking ds1 to ER (Friday night - no doctor until Monday, and I was freaked), because he had a weird lump up above his penis. It was his testicle, but it hadn't been there before that day, and it dropped again a few days later. The ER doctor just told me to keep an eye on it, and make sure I told my family doctor...

Quote:

Personally, I do not find it necessary for my doctor to remove my son's diaper to check for yeast or diaper rash as I am more than capable of recognizing those things myself.
This is true. However, it's not that uncommon for a rash to be more serious than the parents realize. I can see _some_ value in a doctor doing a quick eyeball check on the under the diaper area.

Quote:

Again, it really seems to me that in most cases of removing the diaper it is simply to perform these "penis inspections". If it were the case of an undescended testicle or diaper rash/yeast then why is the penis even being handled? That only offers yet another opportunity for forced retraction.

Most of this probably comes down to what you said regarding having a "reasonable doctor". It seems that is very key. A "reasonable doctor" most likely wouldn't be handling the penis unless there was a solid reason for doing so (hopefully).
I probably have a reasonable doctor (doctors, actually - my usual GP, and the one I go to for maternity care...my usual doctor's wife and partner in practice). All four of my children have had their diapers undone, although not fully removed, at every single WBV. The doctor just eyeballs the area, asks about any hint of rash (how long has it been there, is it improving/getting worse, etc.), and does the diaper back up. I've never had a doctor touch the penis of either of my boys...except the above-mentioned ER doctor, so he coudl check whether it was one of or both of his testicles that was up.


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## Nitenites

There are legitimate reasons for checking the diaper area - diaper rash, undecended testicle, testicular torsion, hydrocele (all things that can happen between visits, and can happen more than once)- but there is NO reason for retraction. I don't find it "weird" that my sons' ped would check their genitals. It's no more "weird" than the ped checking their hips, or ears, or feet. Genitals are part of the body.


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## Laur318

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nitenites* 
I don't find it "weird" that my sons' ped would check their genitals. It's no more "weird" than the ped checking their hips, or ears, or feet. Genitals are part of the body.









I like this quote.
I would FREAK if my ped touched my boy's penis. I know your grabbed her hand and I think you rock!
GO ahead with that legal advice above. That's a great way for the doctor to see she is truly in the wrong.


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## proudmomof4

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DeannaK* 
Thanks everyone for your advice/condolences/support/ etc.

What it boils down to for me, a mom of 3 beautiful, intact boys, is trusting the doctor I take my kids to. Especially with twins when I'm fumbling with one baby or another. Had I turned my back to help the other baby for a second, what might that pediatrician have done? I need to trust the doctor that I see.

Furthermore, I can't take my children back to her because I won't be able to trust or believe in her advice should they really become sick and need medical care. The information she gave me on "dealing" with an uncircumcised penis was ridiculous. And like someone said earlier, we must voice our outrage and give these doctors the correct information. Furthermore, I intend to write her a letter, including information on cleaning and caring for uncircumcised penises and explain to her the reason I'm removing my kids from her care. If she is ill informed on something as important and basic and this subject, than I have no faith in her advice in other important matters.

I think that's a good plan of action and might start some thinking on her part. (Who likes to lose a good "costumer", after all?) Good for you for standing up for your children.

On a slightly different note: stories like yours always make me wonder what's so difficult for doctors about telling a patient - or in this case the parent - what they're going to do and why. (If your dr. had "announced" her intention you probably could have held her back verbally instead of having to grab her wrist.)


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## Llyra

Our pediatrician, who I trust very much, and who is very much well-informed about the care of the normal, undamaged penis, always opens the diaper at a well-baby check. I don't think that's a problem-- it's a part of their body, like any other, and if I'm paying her to keep an eye on their health, watching for problems in the genital area is part of that.

But the difference is she always asks me first, in an open way that clearly gives me an opening to say no. She clearly tells me, before she does anything at all, exactly what she's looking for, and why, and pauses briefly in case I want to question her or refuse. She's opened DS's diaper twice to check for undescended testicles, and a few times to be able to manipulate his hips better, and a few times to scan for rash. This last time, at DS's three-year exam, she asked HIM if it was okay for her to take a look, and she waited for him to say yes before she did.

When DD1 was 5, the doc asked DD if she could look, and DD refused, and the doctor respected that, and instead turned to me and offered me some suggestions about things to keep an eye on, and asked DD if it was okay if "your mama takes a quick peek the next time you're getting dressed or washed."

That, to me, is what quality health care looks like. A partnership between doctor, child, and parent, with the child's dignity and right to control access to his/her own body respected.

Good for you, OP.


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## beckyand3littlemonsters

Good for you hun







: as a mum in a country where circ is only for religous and medical reasons i can say my 2 intact sons have never had trouble peeing, my ds caden has before now quite happily pulled off his nappy and pee'd on my shoes the little monster lol.


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## Peacemamalove

Way to go! It is so important to stand up for our children just like you did!


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## NettleTea

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Llyra* 
But the difference is she always asks me first, in an open way that clearly gives me an opening to say no. She clearly tells me, before she does anything at all, exactly what she's looking for, and why, and pauses briefly in case I want to question her or refuse. She's opened DS's diaper twice to check for undescended testicles, and a few times to be able to manipulate his hips better, and a few times to scan for rash. This last time, at DS's three-year exam, she asked HIM if it was okay for her to take a look, and she waited for him to say yes before she did.

When DD1 was 5, the doc asked DD if she could look, and DD refused, and the doctor respected that, and instead turned to me and offered me some suggestions about things to keep an eye on, and asked DD if it was okay if "your mama takes a quick peek the next time you're getting dressed or washed."

That, to me, is what quality health care looks like. A partnership between doctor, child, and parent, with the child's dignity and right to control access to his/her own body respected.

Yes, that makes a HUGE difference


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## homebirthing

My ped hasn't ever tried to take off my sons diaper.


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## nia82

I've pushed off a pedi's hand as well. I said no retraction and he moved it and said oh I need to see the meatus (when I asked what TH he was doing)...
Now we are assigned to a NP and when he tried to take of DS's diaper I said he's intact (confused look here, so I clarified), which means he has a foreskin, do not retract it (he closes the diaper without looking at DS' genitals)... He then is like but you retract it right, cause it has to? To which I answered no, the owner of the foreskin will retract it when the time comes. He looked puzzled and moved on.


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## outlier

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nia82* 
He then is like but you retract it right, cause it has to? To which I answered no, the owner of the foreskin will retract it when the time comes. He looked puzzled and moved on.

I would love to hear these doctors' reactions if someone would ask them if they retract their male dogs' and cats' foreskins, because, you know, otherwise they'd get dirty.


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## brandislee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NSmomtobe* 
My doctor always takes off my son's diaper to "check his hips" and he is done before I realize he has started. He's never touched the penis as far as I have seen.

That and the lymph nodes in the groin area.


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## Greg B

Quote:


Originally Posted by *outlier* 
I would love to hear these doctors' reactions if someone would ask them if they retract their male dogs' and cats' foreskins, because, you know, otherwise they'd get dirty.









Good one! I am going to remember that.


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## RheaSilva

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NettleTea* 
How can it not seem perverted for a baby's genitals to be touched, held, stared at, etc at pretty much every doctor visit? I mean, if they've been examined once then what else is there to see? Unless, of course, the visit is specifically related to a problem with the genitals. But I've noticed that is rarely the case.

This is not okayuke


Just wondering, but are you implying that peds who include that as part of the WB exam are pedophiles?


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## claddaghmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RheaSilva* 
Just wondering, but are you implying that peds who include that as part of the WB exam are pedophiles?

you know....there is that story floating around....


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## Fyrestorm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RheaSilva* 
Just wondering, but are you implying that peds who include that as part of the WB exam are pedophiles?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 
you know....there is that story floating around....


My abuser was a pediatric urologist...My therapist has told me that addicts tend to lean toward professions that keep them in contact with the object of their addiction...Alcoholics working in bars etc.

There was just a ped that was arrested for abusing over 150 children

Quote:

DOVER, Del. (Feb. 22) -- A Delaware grand jury returned a sweeping indictment Monday against a pediatrician accused of serial molestation in what could be one of the worst child sex abuse cases in the nation's history.

The 160-page indictment returned by a Sussex County grand jury charges Dr. Earl Bradley of Lewes with 471 counts of sexual crimes against 103 children.
I actually believe that doctors are simply obsessed with intact male genitals...they have to touch and look...maybe it's jealousy? Maybe it's envy? Maybe it's them desperately trying to find justification for their cut reduced genitals and, f they can continue to find imaginary problems in intact boys, they can continue to believe that being cut themselves and cutting others is the right thing to do.


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## NettleTea

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RheaSilva* 
Just wondering, but are you implying that peds who include that as part of the WB exam are pedophiles?

All of them? Not at all. Some? Yes.


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## serendipity22

Quote:

.My therapist has told me that addicts tend to lean toward professions that keep them in contact with the object of their addiction...Alcoholics working in bars etc.
What does this say about doctors who perform tens of thousands of child circumcisions?


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## berry987

Way to go!! You really did something brave - you should be proud.

I just posted below about a doc retracting my sons penis...and I just stood there. I feel awful. I should have done something. It just shocked me and this man is very intimidating.

No more. I'm not going to be intimidated again (with the new doctor..because I am not going back to one we saw today).


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## serendipity22

Quote:

It just shocked me and this man is very intimidating.
Some doctors use a whole bunch of tricks to intimidate and control. Body language, voice tone etc.

They can talk to you like you have no say in the matter or may order you around without explaining what they are doing, or just do things without saying anything (like sticking a needle into you).

You need to stand up to bullies like that.

Having said that some doctors are reasonable people. Even then you might have to be careful because they might be trained to believe rubbish like infants need to be retracted.


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## brant31

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nia82* 
Now we are assigned to a NP and when he tried to take of DS's diaper I said he's intact (confused look here, so I clarified), which means he has a foreskin, do not retract it (he closes the diaper without looking at DS' genitals)... He then is like but you retract it right, cause it has to? To which I answered no, the owner of the foreskin will retract it when the time comes. He looked puzzled and moved on.


Several years ago I was working a health fair, and a young doctor came over to our booth to talk with us. After a few questions, it was pretty clear that his understanding of intact anatomy and care was off-base. So, I launched into a simple explanation of development (synechia and adhesion), timetable for separation and retraction, and recommendation that the boy be the first to retract, when he's ready.

He blinked a couple of times, then said, "Wow. That is _completely counterintuitive_. It's a pocket, so you should clean it." He didn't want to budge from this position, and implied we at our booth were providing dangerous advice.

I explained that it was more a fusion than a pocket or fold, and its purpose was to keep a delicate area clean, not collect unclean matter. And it achieves this function really well. Again, he just blinked a couple of times and said, "Wow, I really need to digest this info. It just flies against everything I ever assumed and everything I've ever been taught." He never really thought about natural adhesions until I asked him why he thought a probe had to be run under the foreskin and around the glans before an infant circ. Then the penny dropped.

I could actually see him processing the information, but I could also see a real internal struggle going on. In just 30 minutes he was unlearning 30 years of assumptions, tuition and intuition.

Finally, I just said, "Doctor, why is this so hard? Nature has figured this out brilliantly. _Work with the body_, not against it." And he got it. He was so happy to finally understand, but it was clear that it took a while for the pieces to fit together. Physicians (and, I assume, nurses) are highly intelligent, but trained to think and act in a very disciplined way -- and much of that involves rote memorization and "going by the book". But sometimes, you really don't get it until you're presented with it "outside the box".

For me, it was instructive to watch him go from stubborn to enlightened. The experience definitely helped me frame the discussion thereafter with health professionals. Doctors who espouse misinformation aren't bad people; they are merely holding on to faulty abstracts instead of searching out and embracing real-life experience. And when it comes to intact penises, the tragedy is that US culture -- including the medical profession -- has lost 2 or 3 or 4 generations worth of first-hand experience by automatically altering the male body at birth.


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## Robert Haight

Mother: I totally agree with what you did. I married a chinese woman. We now have a 5 and 4 y.o. boys. They are both uncircumsised. We never take them to a regular idiot doctor if at all possible. It is there for a reason (foreskin) and we clean when needed and both boys now are okay with cleanliness.


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## SunnyPerch

I love this, and every doctor should treat their young patients with such respect!!

One story my mom used to tell me occasionally, as if it were the funniest thing, was about a well child visit when I was probably 2-3 yo. The doctor went to 'check' me (my older sister had labial adhesions as a young girl, so maybe that's what he was checking for? I have no idea), and I guess I sat up and smacked his hand, admonishing him with a stern, "No!" My mom and the pediatrician apparently got a kick out of that. the story always made me uncomfortable, but it was only in recent years that I understood why. I finally asked her, well why wasn't I listened to? Why was I coaxed to allow the dr to examine me when I had just clearly stated my position and feelings on the matter? Because it was 'cute' or 'funny' that I stood up to a man in a white coat? She'd never looked at it from my perspective before, or how it might have contributed to feelings of powerlessness and a later reluctance to ever stand of up authority. Apart from medical necessity or emergency, there is no need to trample on a child's emerging dignity or modesty.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Llyra*
> 
> Our pediatrician, who I trust very much, and who is very much well-informed about the care of the normal, undamaged penis, always opens the diaper at a well-baby check. I don't think that's a problem-- it's a part of their body, like any other, and if I'm paying her to keep an eye on their health, watching for problems in the genital area is part of that.
> 
> But the difference is she always asks me first, in an open way that clearly gives me an opening to say no. She clearly tells me, before she does anything at all, exactly what she's looking for, and why, and pauses briefly in case I want to question her or refuse. She's opened DS's diaper twice to check for undescended testicles, and a few times to be able to manipulate his hips better, and a few times to scan for rash. This last time, at DS's three-year exam, she asked HIM if it was okay for her to take a look, and she waited for him to say yes before she did.
> 
> When DD1 was 5, the doc asked DD if she could look, and DD refused, and the doctor respected that, and instead turned to me and offered me some suggestions about things to keep an eye on, and asked DD if it was okay if "your mama takes a quick peek the next time you're getting dressed or washed."
> 
> That, to me, is what quality health care looks like. A partnership between doctor, child, and parent, with the child's dignity and right to control access to his/her own body respected.
> 
> Good for you, OP.


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## ~adorkable~

i few thoughts.

i have twins so i really understand how hectic appointments are!

i tell doctors from the start and on each visit until i realllllly get to know them, that my boy is intact and they are not to touch his penis. i do not say do not retract, because they sometimes dont thing pulling back a little is retracting. i learned this when our wonderful ped who totally greed with me about not retracting still when and almost did it. she really did not think what she was doing "counted"

So its "my son has an intact foreskin, he does not retract yet and for my comfort and his safely, I need to tell you to not touch his penis in any way, if you need it moved, i will be happy to"

i also have a rule that my kids are only undressed while in my laps. i will happily hold and take the diaper off for the legitimate things that should be checked.

yes the descending testicle thing is more than a one time thing, there is a timeframe where they can go up and down easily and they jsut need to check that htey move properly. they also should check for fluid levels. that also goes up and down at times past the first visit.

yes i pay for a whole body check and a large portion of important body parts are covered by a diaper, so it comes off.

yeah most well informed moms think they can spot all the problems, but that is not always the case and more importantly they would be remiss in their duties to your child if they took everyone word on who though themselves informed. it is also the i did not know what i did not know things that you go to other people for.

by the way, my rules apply to my girl too, i always keep an eye on her labia, if i ever say anything that looked like an adhesions, i would not let my doctor touch her labia at all. i would show them and we would talk about it, but no touching, i would not want then to pull it.

lastly, i want to encourage the original poster to not turn away from WBV all together based on this, you did a great job, now find a ped you like and start off with the talk about foreskins and keep benefiting from the rest of the visit.


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## DeaGemRy

Wow! I think this is the best thread I have ever read!


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## PeterJ

It's been a while since I posted here but anyone who might remember me, I just wanted to update you on my son's progress. For those who didn't read my posts from over a year ago, my son was forcibly retracted by our pediatrician at his 6 months wellness visit (he's 2 now). Unfortunately I was ignorant of the issue with retraction, until I noticed thin red lines on my son's foreskin the day after the doctor visit, did some research and was horrified at what had happened at the hands of our pediatrician. We changed doctors, and now have a pediatrician that we are very happy and comfortable with.

One thing I was desperate to know was whether anybody's son who had been through something similar had any long term issues related to the retraction, or if there was anything parents could do to limit the damage done. I promised myself that I would come back here, so that I could help parents looking for answers after having gone through a forced retraction of their son. I can tell you that my son is absolutely fine. Just like most 2 year old boys, he is most interested in his "pee-pee", especially in the bath, this obviously being an extended period of time without a diaper. The tip of his foreskin is loose and does not look tight. He likes to stretch his foreskin and has also pulled it slightly in the other direction a couple of times, so I know that he is at least partially retractable. This is an enormous relief after worrying that our pediatrician might have done some long term damage. One thing I also learned from the wonderful folks here is that problems with retraction usually occur after many multiple forced retractions, but still, I was worried.

Our new pediatrician doesn't even go near my son's penis and even told us, without prompting, that the foreskin should not be forced and to let it loosen naturally which can take some time with some boys. The only time his diaper has come off at the doctor's office was at the most recent checkup when the doctor checked my son's testicular position; he didn't touch his penis, in fact he didn't even mention it. Some parents might be glad to know that my son even said to the doctor "no touch pee-pee!" when the doc was examining his testicles, so we didn't even have to say anything on his behalf! The doctor reassured my son that it was ok as long as Mommy and Daddy were there too. I think my son saying this is in response to when he attempted to touch my penis when I had just emerged from the shower and he showed a natural childlike curiosity,reaching out his hand. I told him that we don't touch other's pee-pees, only our own, and no one is allowed to touch his pee-pee.

So, I guess the purpose of this post is to reassure parents who have just gone through the horrible experience of having their son forcibly retracted that the chances are that everything will be absolutely fine. This is something that I was very eager to know when it had just happened to us; so I hope this post is useful in some way.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

I remember your posts vividly & I thrilled to hear all is well w/your ds.


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## DeaGemRy

That is great PeterJ... my two youngins say "THATS MINE NOT YOURS" & know very well that even mummy & daddy shouldn't touch unless applying cream. I always let my son know that he was to clean it once it came back & it slowly but surely came back in its own time & he is 7 now so washes it too much which I've had words with him about as well LOL I am SO glad I didn't get him done.


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## PeterJ

Thanks guys. I remember your advice MCatLvr all them months ago, you truly are a treasure here at the forum. We're lucky to have you around.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

I am glad that I am able to make a small difference every once in awhile.


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