# ERF car seat on plane - airline trouble



## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

In May we'll return to NZ, from Sweden, and we are flying with Air New Zealand. We chose to go with them because they fly through L.A., which means a lot when it comes to luggage limit.

Unfortunately we are encountering some carseat trouble. We have a Brio Zento, which we brought here, and DD sat in it on the plane (Singapore Air). But Air New Zealand has some quite stringent regulations regarding carseats. It will have to be forward facing, as the only allow rear facing seats up to 19 inches high, 25,5 inches for forward-facing. And it can only be 17 inches wide. The Brio Zento is about an inch to wide, and this applies to almost most of the car seats you can get for a 2-year old here.

We thought we'd sell the Zento, and bought an Acta Graco Duoflex today (that and the Britax Two-Way are the only seats that fit tall kids, up to about 5-6 years, and up to 25 kg, that we can get here). A good thing about it is that it is so light, and a lot easier to install than the Zento.

And we cannot get a seat in NZ, all seats for this age group are forward-facing there, so bringing a seat is imperative.

The Duoflex is barely 17 inches wide, so it does work that way, but, and it is a big but, it is only to be used as a booster seat forward facing (so, not with harness), and it does not have any place for a belt to go underneath it when forward-facing. The sales person (who was very knowledgable about the various seats, surprisingly, actually) told us that the lap belt on the plane would have to go over the seat (behind the child, we presume, the sides are low, almost flat, so it could probably run there). However, we are doubtful about the safety of this, and even more doubtful that the air line would actually allow us to do this.

So I'm throwing it out here to all of you wise ladies (and men







), hoping you might have some of ideas or suggestions.

Bottom line is, we need to bring an ERF car seat to NZ, and we would really prefer that DD gets to go in her carseat on the plane.

(I think the problem is that the air line hasn't updated their regulations in far too long, we also have to talk to them about requiring a standards mark that looks very different nowadays).

I'd be really grateful for any advice.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I do not know about NZ airlines, but in the US, belt-positioning boosters are not allowed on planes. It is generally considered unsafe to use a belt-positioning booster with a lap-only belt.


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

It isn't a booster, it is a rear-facing car seat, usage ca 5 months to 5 years.

However, you _can_ turn it forward-facing when the child weighs 15 kg or more, and then use it as a booster (the manual says not to use it forward-facing with harness, as in Sweden the recommendation is that you rear-face for as long as is possible, 5-6 years, and then use a good high-backed booster. Apparently, a small child in a harness facing forward is at risk to break his or her neck, as the head flies forward in a collision, but the harness has no give.







).

My problem is that there are only a few of seats that can be used for ERF (the height is usually the issue, a lot rear-face till 18 or 25 kg), and only two that aren't enormous. The Britax Two-way is unfortunately an inch too wide for airline regulations, but I think that actually can be used ff harnessed. Sigh. This is really hard...


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I understand, but in the US, you cannot use a belt-positioning booster (either a dedicated booster or a harnessed seat in booster mode) on an airplane, so if it is too tall RFing (I think it probably is), it can't be used on the plane at all.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

is the flight attendant literally going to whip out a ruler, or is a matter of the seat not fitting at all, say between armrests?


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## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

My *guess* would be it is a matter of other passengers having the clearance to move around the seat in event of an emergency or evacuation. Best of luck! Seems like a challenging situation! Good for you though for trying to figure it out now and having the foresight to bring an ERF with you. Happy travels!

Jenne


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Are you allowed to install it forward facing then? If its allowed, I would jsut do that. Ask for a seatbelt extender (ask at the gate before you get on the plane to make sure they have one on-board), that way you can get it installed with the seatbelt through the correct beltpath (I would NOT put it over the seat if the manual doesnt specifically say you can)

Ds rides forward facing on the plane now that he has the Radian b/c it wont fit rearfacing.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

If the seat cannot be used with a harness forward-facing, then it cannot be used forward-facing on an airplane.

Can you get a Britax Two-Way Elite (Two-Way Plus)? It RFs to 55# and can be used forward-facing with a harness.

Edit: Oops, I see the Two-Way is too wide. Honestly, then, I'd ship the ERF seat and have the child FF in a cheap travel seat on the plane.


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

I would either use it with the harness FFing on the plane - yes it is not *supposed* to, but the airline folks will never know and the forces in a plane crash are much different than in a car crash. Or I would gate check the seat. Basically you are weighing the very small risks of something happening on the plane (crash, etc) or the seat getting damaged while being checked.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Could you get the front row seat so there's no one in front of you to complain about the 2 extra inches and just install it RF?


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## alfabetsoup (Jun 13, 2005)

I've flown ANZ and found them quite easy going about carseats. The regulations may mean that the carseat won't fit on the plane.

I would get a cheap FF harness seat just for the plane and ship the ERF seat--if you buy new and don't take it out of its box it should be safe in the luggage hold or if you're shipping stuff, send it with that.


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Could you get the front row seat so there's no one in front of you to complain about the 2 extra inches and just install it RF?

Are you talking about the bulkhead seats? They aren't always in the front, first of all and also, the armrests don't come up. This could be a problem for fitting a larger seat, especially if it has a wide base.

I like the suggestion above...

As a former Flight Attendant, trust me, we never had a ruler handy. As long as the passenger could fit the seat, it was a go. I personally, hated to bug attentive parents who brought car seats and told this to an FAA inspector once.


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## Backwoods Mama (Mar 7, 2010)

What about the "Sunshine kids Radian 65" seat? It can be fwd facing, rear facing and is also used as a booster up to 65lbs. It is extremely narrow and has a high back for taller children. It folds up so you can throw it on your luggage trolly. The only drawback is that it is heavy (because it has steel inside, which makes it crazy safe). We have one and love it. It is so narrow it fits in our little Honda Civic between two booster seats, seriously. Hope that helps.


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alfabetsoup* 
I've flown ANZ and found them quite easy going about carseats. The regulations may mean that the carseat won't fit on the plane.

I would get a cheap FF harness seat just for the plane and ship the ERF seat--if you buy new and don't take it out of its box it should be safe in the luggage hold or if you're shipping stuff, send it with that.

We'll call Air NZ and ask them. We've brought the Brio Zento on domestic flights and it fits (despite being an inch wider than what is allowed by Air NZ), even on the smaller planes. Forward-facing, that is, they wouldn't allow rear-facing (and it probably would be too tall.

We're not shipping, this is why we need as much luggage limit as is possible, there isn't really a shipping route Sweden-NZ, so even sending a small box costs a fortune - it is cheaper to just use the ordinary postal service. And it did not come in a box. No idea why, seems that is just how they do it there (the support leg, the manual and the straps came attached to the seat).

Thanks everyone! We'll call Air NZ, see what they say. Maybe they'd let us bring the Zento or a Two-Way? I don't know if they'd allow gate-checking car seats. Car seats on planes are not common in Sweden, and unheard of in New Zealand (except baby capsules).


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## alfabetsoup (Jun 13, 2005)

We gate-checked a carseat on a LAX to Heathrow flight.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

I have been listening to The Crew Lounge podcasts and in episode #4 (I think) the flight attendents talk about the different safety issues between US and international carriers. The one woman works for either an Austrailian or NZ airline and I remember her saying the airline provides some sort of add-on harness for kids. Anyway, it might be worth listening to.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eclipsepearl* 
Are you talking about the bulkhead seats? They aren't always in the front, first of all and also, the armrests don't come up.

Yep, that's what I was thinking of. Too bad it won't work!


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## mumm (May 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eclipsepearl* 
Are you talking about the bulkhead seats? They aren't always in the front, first of all and also, the armrests don't come up. This could be a problem for fitting a larger seat, especially if it has a wide base.

I like the suggestion above...

As a former Flight Attendant, trust me, we never had a ruler handy. As long as the passenger could fit the seat, it was a go. I personally, hated to bug attentive parents who brought car seats and told this to an FAA inspector once.

Is the bulkhead the emergency exit row? If so then you can't have a carseat of any kind there. But maybe the bulkhead is another word for the row by the galley.....

I'm a pilots wife and on flights as a family we've run into issues before with carseats. DP always says "Just don't make a stink, you've got to go with what the FA says even if he/she is wrong." Just a heads up....


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mumm* 
Is the bulkhead the emergency exit row?

Probably depends on the plane, but the one time I sat (pre-kids) with a wall and not another passenger in front of me, it wasn't the exit row.


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## mrskingred (Aug 3, 2006)

Bulkhead can be the emergency row if its the seats in the short row next to the window. The middle section of seats are the bulkhead for the baby bassinets etc. (transatlantic flights).


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mumm* 
Is the bulkhead the emergency exit row? If so then you can't have a carseat of any kind there. But maybe the bulkhead is another word for the row by the galley.....

I'm a pilots wife and on flights as a family we've run into issues before with carseats. DP always says "Just don't make a stink, you've got to go with what the FA says even if he/she is wrong." Just a heads up....

You are correct and so is your husband.

Sometimes the bulkhead is _also_ an emergency exit where children, car seat or not, can't sit. But the OP is probably flying on bigger aircraft where this is less likely to be the case.

It's true that cooperation with the crew is a serious affair. Why I say to ask to see the purser and/or the questionable rule in writing before things get heated. Also, to bring anything printed up to show them... Clear the air without kicking up a lot of dirt is the best policy for everyone!

I will assure you that if a F/A violates a regulation, they _will_ get in trouble. Fat lot of good that will do you, though, if the flight happened weeks ago or the seat got damaged because the passengers was forced to check it, etc.


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