# ap and crying



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

I'm curious. Who here attachment parented their infants, by the below definition, and still had a baby that cried, at least once a day.

No circ
no vax _(I don't necessarily consider this AP, but can see how it might cause a baby to be 'fussy')_
gentle birth
breastfeed on cue
coslept
no cio

poll coming...

You can vote once for each of your children, because we all know every baby is different









Insert 'cried at least once a day' for the word 'fussy', if you like


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## EVC (Jan 29, 2006)

Did all of the above (except I have a girl, so circ wasn't really an issue). I did everyting "right" according to the wisdom of AP. And my daughter cried from the moment her eyes were open until the moment she fell asleep. All day, every day. She was--and is--VERY high needs. It has nothing to do with parenting style, imo, and everything to do with her personality. Some kids are just very intense. Having said that, however, I do believe that "AP" is the kindest, most appropriate response to that.


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## Mrs.Bufford (May 30, 2007)

I did it all, and babycakes still cries. I don't think that a baby crying once a day makes it fussy though.


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## WatermelonSnow (Feb 15, 2007)

I voted other. I did everything except that DS's birth was by medically necessary unplanned c-sec. Even then, the hospital and nurses were great. DS spent his first hour in his dad's arms, then was brought to me to nurse while I was still in recovery. He didn't spend one moment in the nursery.

And as an infant he had to have his late afternoon meltdown. The five o'clock witching hour. He's a sensitive boy, 8 years later this is still true, and needs to release pent up stuff. That's just him. I am still learning just how sensitive he is, both emotionally and sensorially. And as an AP mom, still educating myself as to how I can best meet his needs.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mrs.Bufford* 
I did it all, and babycakes still cries. I don't think that a baby crying once a day makes it fussy though.

well, tbh, I don't really thinkg fussy is the right word, I was just using it for ease. I actually hate when peolpe ask, is she a good baby, because I fell like all babies are good, kwim? Crying doesn't make a baby bad or good. It just is. I guess you could insert fussy with 'cries at least once a day' and use whatever descriptor you like


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## Black Orchid (Mar 28, 2005)

DD1 cried nonstop for over 6 months... she is really happy now, tho.

DD2 cried a few times a day. She was and is a nonstop crier... there is nothing we could do. Luckily DD1 wore me down and I just held her and didn't take it personally.







At this point DD2 is doing tantrums... little burts of crying-anger when she doesn't like what is going on.

At first, I thought crying=unhappy baby, AP=no crying... but my DD1 taught me that crying is a natual part of life and to respect it instead of trying to eliminate it because it would always end up coming out at some point and it was usually worse if it was delayed.


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

My kids sometimes cried, but I wouldn't have called either of them fussy. They only cried when they were unhappy and we could figure out what they needed (for my oldest, it was ALWAYS the boob, for my littlest, he wanted us to hold him and bounce constantly). So I voted "I did all of that and my babies were calm."
I'm assuming this is talking about young infants, of course. My kids are NOT calm now!







And my youngest had a terrible time with all of his teeth, and was VERY fussy and in extreme pain when he was teething.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

My first was very high-needs and I did all the above except she was vaxed.
My second I did all the above except his hospital birth wasn't so gentle and he was partially vaxed and he was a calm/laid back baby.
My last I did all the above and he's another high-needs little one.


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## gwerydd (Jun 7, 2007)

nak

my dd is high needs, always has been.


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## tsume (Jun 4, 2005)

DS - tramautic birth, 5 day NICU seperation at birth, circed, No CIO, co-slept, fed on demand CALM

DD 1- did all of the above FUSSY

DD 2- did all of the above CALM


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## Mrs.Bufford (May 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
well, tbh, I don't really thinkg fussy is the right word, I was just using it for ease. I actually hate when peolpe ask, is she a good baby, because I fell like all babies are good, kwim? Crying doesn't make a baby bad or good. It just is. I guess you could insert fussy with 'cries at least once a day' and use whatever descriptor you like









Hehe ok, I didn't think you could really think that!


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## redpajama (Jan 22, 2007)

My son did _not_ have a gentle birth (vac-extraction)
He was _not_ circumsized
He received _some_ vax
We _sort of_ co-slept (he slept directly next to the bed in a Moses basket)
We nursed on demand
He _never_ "cried-it-out"
He was a *calm* baby.

My daughter had a relatively gentle birth, although not entirely (she was suctioned after and when she didn't start up right away her cord was quickly cut and she was taken away from me for blow-by O2 in the warmer)
She received _some_ vax
We nursed on demand
We co-slept
She _never_ "cried-it-out"
She was a *calm* baby.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

Ds1-
Had a rough birth. Carried him, co-slept, no cio. I did vaccinate on the dr. schedule, but I didn't know any better.
He was incredibly high needs. He had to be held, bounced, rocked, nursed constantly, and he cried the milli second I stopped.

Ds2-
Okay birth, though he had shoulder distocia. Did all the above, except delayed vac. He was pretty calm, and only cried when he had a wet diaper.

Ds3-
Bit of a rough birth. Did all of the above, except much more delayed and some refused vacs. Was very calm as a baby. Now he's my wild man!!


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *redpajama* 
My son did _not_ have a gentle birth (vac-extraction)
He was _not_ circumsized
He received _some_ vax
We _sort of_ co-slept (he slept directly next to the bed in a Moses basket)
We nursed on demand
He _never_ "cried-it-out"
He was a *calm* baby.

My daughter had a relatively gentle birth, although not entirely (she was suctioned after and when she didn't start up right away her cord was quickly cut and she was taken away from me for blow-by O2 in the warmer)
She received _some_ vax
We nursed on demand
We co-slept
She _never_ "cried-it-out"
She was a *calm* baby.

OT: Susan, your pictures are beautiful!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

my first almost never cried. She was/is raised totally AP style. She would just whimper if she needed me... like she knew crying was too much.. lol


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Are there really people who think if you do everything just right, your child will never cry?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH..whew, let me catch my breath.


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## greenmagick (Jun 6, 2006)

I did everything but gentle birth (both ended up csection







) DD was fussy, very sensitive, hated transitions (even picking her up or switching positions could cause a melt down) etc. My ds was a bit fussy for the first several weeks, but even when fussy, he was still calmer. When Lilah would melt down, that was it..everything turned into a complete meltdown. Cian would pull himself out if it much quicker. Now he's only fussy when tired, hungry, or needing a change. (well except for the car, but we wont count that).


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 
Are there really people who think if you do everything just right, your child will never cry?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH..whew, let me catch my breath.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

the only things we didnt do, was gentle birth (hospital induced epi birth, but he labored down and was very calm at birth, and unfortunatly we vaxed for the first 6mths.

ds was high needs from day one, he cried ALOT!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I hardly think crying once a day counts as fussy









-Angela


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I hardly think crying once a day counts as fussy









-Angela

right. my op has that you can call it whatever you want, even just 'crying once a day'. I just used fussy for simplicity's sake.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 
Are there really people who think if you do everything just right, your child will never cry?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH..whew, let me catch my breath.










It's the biggest joke in the world, especially for those who did everything "right" and still stayed up night and day with a screaming baby.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
right. my op has that you can call it whatever you want, even just 'crying once a day'. I just used fussy for simplicity's sake.









But do you want to know if they cried once a day or if they were fussy? Very different questions.

My dd was a VERY VERY mellow baby. But she cried at least once a day....

I would never have labeled her as fussy or high needs. Not at all. But I think it's pretty abnormal to have a baby that never cries at all. They don't make many other sounds in the first few weeks.

-Angela


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## Past_VNE (Dec 13, 2003)

We fall into all those categories (plus other AP ones) and my son was a VERY intense little bug, needy as heck and cried a lot.

There were no allergies or other things involved, he was/is just downright intense.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

I checked the first two options







One for Ellie, one for Ben. Ellie hardly ever cried, certainly not once per day. Ben cried, wouldn't nurse sometimes.... and was "fussy" at times... I always say, "He wears his heart on his sleeve."


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
But do you want to know if they cried once a day or if they were fussy? Very different questions.

-Angela

NOt really to some people. I personally don't label any baby as 'fussy'. But I know how most people interpret the word, so thats what I'm basing it on.

If you think your baby is/was fussy OR cried once a day, check that. This is just an informal poll - its not like I'm presenting it to congress or something....


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## mcng (Oct 17, 2006)

no snark here but are there babies who dont cry at all all day day?, If i had one of those i would have been at the doctor asking questions. dd1 was very calm but certanly did cry, and still cries at 5 yo probably once a day, dd2 very high needs from the start to the point i had to step out of the room for a second and breathe if not i had a meltdown myself, when i think I want another baby I remember those days best birht control ever


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## onelilguysmommy (May 11, 2005)

my first was calm as a baby for the most part, but was also really into music like..trying to dance and all. when i was pregnant he would beat to the music of a couple of bands their dad likes...but very stuck in his ways early on (for the longest time i COULD NOT wear anything but a black bra or he would absolutely freak out, or when i was pregnant if i moved the _slightest_ way he didnt like, he would stick his butt up under and jam his foot straight out under my rib cage!







: for examples)
now hes a crazy little thing









my second is pretty calm, he sometimes cries more than a few seconds because i have to get my oldest off of him or something. his birth was much more peaceful as it was a uc waterbirth and we were alone. but he is also set in his weird little ways about stuff like my nipple has to be exactly the way he wants it or he will get mad, or he will get this high pitched yelling type noise and look like im trying to kill him or something if i offer the boob he didnt want cause you know, im a mind reader and all!







other than that hes pretty happy, smiling and giggly most of the time

neither were/are fussy in general, just when they want something, and neither really tell me before freaking out, like no little "im wet" cues, believe me ive started at them both, and they never did anything..then suddenly wet and freaking out, or the older never had a sign he was hungry, he went from fine to rooting for literally a couple of seconds to "boob better be in the mouth or the neighborhoods going to know im angry!"


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

I attempted gentle, midwife-assisted births with both - one in a birth center, the other at home. They both had shoulder dystocias, so not so gentle extractions after all. My second ended up visiting the hospital after birth to get checked out.
My first was partially vaxed until he was a year old. My second wasn't vaxed.
Neither were circ'ed. Both co-slept/ co-sleep. Both nurse(d) on demand. I didn't purposely let them CIO, though they each had some crying time while I used the bathroom and such. ... Etc. Etc.
Both have sensory processing disorder. My older son was fussier (hours every night) than my younger son is (so far), but the younger one does have his times.
With my first, I really bought into the whole idea that attachment parenting would create this wonderful, easy, perfect child. I blamed myself for a long time for that not happening. I must've done something wrong. I was a horrible mother.
I'd hate for anyone else to go through that. Each child has his/ her own personality. Just try to meet their individual needs (checklists don't work for unique individuals!) and remember to breathe! Parenting is hard work for most of us.


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## seren (Jul 11, 2003)

I did EVERYTHING with DD2 and she had colic. It was terrible.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Crying once a day (unless it was for more than 15 minutes or something) I wouldn't think of as fussy/difficult at all . . . I think our pediatrician's handout said that babies were expected to cry something like 4 hours a day all total, and I was horrified.

My kids rarely cried, and we were as follows:

breastfeeding on demand
no circ
co-slept with one, didn't with the other
c-section births for both
no CIO for either
some baby-wearing but mostly just carried them in my arms a lot
no vax with one, selective vax with the other

They are just easy-going kids . . . even now at five and almost 2, they are easy.


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

Did all or most of those things and never had a calm kid in the bunch. They aren't even calm when they sleep


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

DS#1. Left intact, vaccinated, rough birth (induction), breastfed on cue, didn't co-sleep, no CIO. He was such a calm relaxed baby. Barely EVER cried. Slept through the night at 2 months old.

DS#2. Left intact, vaccinated, calmer birth than ds1, breastfed on cue, co-slept most of the time, no CIO. Ever since he was born, he has been the fussiest little guy. He does have some allergies and such though, so it could be most of the reason.


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## JustVanessa (Sep 7, 2005)

I bfed on cue, never did CIO, but he had a very traumatic birth, we didn't co sleep, and I selectively vaxed. Ds was a very calm baby ONCE I figured out my food sensitivities. His first month he cried a lot, due to me eating things bothering him.


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## BurgundyElephant (Feb 17, 2006)

I have three very spirited children. I didn't really understand that right away - I thought all kids were like that.

For example - DS is almost two. He screams (still) for at least an hour a day, spread out. DD who is seven will still have a crying tantrum over the stupidest stuff ever.

In all honestly, if I had known all three of my kids would be this spirited I would have stopped at one. It's very draining.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BurgundyElephant* 

In all honestly, if I had known all three of my kids would be this spirited I would have stopped at one. It's very draining.


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

Right from about 6 weeks, Izzy was like this







:














until about 8 months!

We coslept, breastfed on demand, didn't vax, held her all the time, and even though I thought about selling her on ebay, I never once let her cry on her own. We did everything by the AP book, and she still screamed all the livelong day. We nicnamed her Princess Screamy.

It seems that she was just frustrated that she couldn't move independently. As soon as she got to crawling, and walking, the screaming stopped!
(and my hair grew back )

Oh, it was also a midwife attended, peaceful, wonderful, intervention-free birth and we were allowed to go home 3 hours after she was born.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I did most of all of them, although James' is circ'ed and was partially vax'ed before I researched and decided to stop. He was high needs from birth. He is STILL high needs. He throws some tantrums that honestly SCARE me and scare others, they are intense.

Aldria had a semi-eventful birth due to the cord being around her neck tightly, it made for some panic for a moment. She is VERY easy going, STTN already (started at 5 weeks), not high needs at all.

I chock it up to her personality...just like James' spiritedness is just his personality.


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## SquibsNCrackers (Oct 21, 2005)

DD1 - hospital birth (home transfer)







, everything else AP/NFL by the book








DD2 - home waterbirth (dream birth), everything else AP/NFL by the book :nana:
DD3 - homebirth (posterior, emotional complications, traumatic for me), everything else AP/NFL by the book :nana:

DDs both required (requested







) 24/7 babywearing and FREQUENT







nursing on demand, RARELY slept, cried and had to be walked and bounced off and on even when the above requirements were met ... pretty much throughout infancy, then continued to be frequent night-wakers, "poor" nappers, etc. through toddlerhood. DD1 left the family bed for good around 9ish (with some off-and-on from age 7). DD2 left the family bed 7ish and still has some off-and-ons (or should I say ins-and-outs).

DS1 was similar to DDs but way less intense. He seemed CALM to me, but that was relative. I should also say my dds seemed calm to me







: ,as long as I was busting my butt to understand their communication and comply with their "requests"!

THAT SAID, all three (13, 8 and 5) are now vibrant, independent, self-reliant and resourceful smallish people.

So .... what does it all mean? Beats me! :nana: :nana: :nana:

P.S.







:














, I was a raw fooder prior to and during pregnancy with dd1, and well into toddlerhood. (Dp is still RF and has been for decades







). Not me!







I did all kinds of eliminations and diet changes/supplements to try and get my babies not to act "high needs"ish, but, um, not much changed.

P.P.S.:







If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't change a thing (except dd1's transfer







). Oh, and maybe *I* could have been a wee bit more relaxed throughout.







:


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

I had a mainstream pregancy/birth but he has been raised pretty "AP/natural living". As an infant my son was a calm, self soothing, happy, sunny, sleep-thru-the-night at 7 weeks baby. He rarely cried except for the usal things-hungry, wet, teething, etc.

Honestly? I really don't think I had anything to do with it. I think he was just wired that way.


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

My son had a gentle birth, no circ, no CIO, breastfed on cue, and co-slept. And he was a very challenging baby almost from the beginning. He did have 3 DTaPs but that's a little beside the point since the screaming/reflux began before he ever had the first one. He turned out to have a wicked dairy intolerance, IMO that was what was troubling him from very early on (he was exposed through my milk).


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

DD1 was a very fussy baby, she cried A LOT regardless of all those things I did. Her first year was rough, I think I cried just as much as she did, which is saying a lot considering all the child ever did is cry and scream. She'll be 5 on Monday and still cries/screams far more then DD2 does and DD2 is 14m old.







DD2 is a completely different child, very mellow, and happy, those are not words I would use to to describe DD1.


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

i did most of the above...my children were really laid back, most of the time. however, before i figured out that raegan was allergic to milk, she SCREAMED for almost a week straight. they had me switch to soy and she was fine...

all of mine were well-adjusted and had no problem with me stepping out the door if necessary.

i do selectively vaccinate, but all the rest applies. well, except for jordan...she REFUSED to sleep with me.


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## SquibsNCrackers (Oct 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HollyBearsMom* 
I had a mainstream pregancy/birth but he has been raised pretty "AP/natural living". As an infant my son was a calm, self soothing, happy, sunny, sleep-thru-the-night at 7 weeks baby. He rarely cried except for the usal things-hungry, wet, teething, etc.

Honestly? I really don't think I had anything to do with it. I think he was just wired that way.









Okay, I read your last sentence as "I think he was just WEIRD that way."

Tells you where I'm comin' from!







:









Congrats by the way. What a blessing!


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## Iris' Mom (Aug 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I hardly think crying once a day counts as fussy









-Angela

Yes, my babies did cry when they were hungry. As soon as they were fed, they stopped, and almost never cried otherwise. I voted calm. I didn't circ, I fed on demand, co-slept and no CIO.

I forget the rest of the list -- I did vax, and I had a more or less traditional hospital birth. I did have an epidural with #2, which I regretted, but not with #1 or 3.


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## sugarlumpkin (Dec 20, 2006)

My darling son is a calm baby. He sleeps well, he eats well, he is a joy and a love to be with.

My ds has been selectively vaxed. Also, due to my cancer (see signature) I had to wean him completely at 10 months.


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## dimibella (Feb 5, 2007)

I voted other because we did all of those with DD and although she wasn't a fussy baby, she certainly was not calm, she was just very high needs. To me a fussy baby is one that cries/is unhappy no matter what you do to try to soothe him/her.


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## guestmama9906 (Feb 12, 2003)

My second cried
All
the
time.

We did all that stuff you listed, but it turns out, he's allergic to DAIRY!!! So anytime I consumed dairy, he nursed and got rashes, diarrhea, stomach upset. It took like friggin' 5 months to figure it all out.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SquibsNCrackers* 
Okay, I read your last sentence as "I think he was just WEIRD that way."

Tells you where I'm comin' from!







:









Congrats by the way. What a blessing!


reading most of these posts I guess he *is* weird that way too!!


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I did it all and one baby was calm and one baby was fussy. My fussy baby didn't cry really, she was just more clingy.


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## mamamilkers (Nov 11, 2005)

Once a day?!?! Oh man, I wish it would have only been once a day!









We are pretty AP over here and both of my girls were/are criers.


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## LowFlyingAnimals (Nov 30, 2003)

Fussy/crying is good. It's how the baby communicates.

My dd was very calm _as a baby_, and it was because she has some kind of communication disorder. She didn't cry when she was hungry or sleepy or pretty much ever because she had no idea how to interact that way. I was much happier when ds was a bit more demanding and crying.

I also don't think parenting style has a whole lot to do with how much a baby cries, with the exception of how responsive you are to the crying. If a baby doesn't get a response, s/he might become more complacent, giving up. Crying is more temperment based. They either come wired that way or not.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I remember reading that most babies cry an average of 10 minutes a day, and at our next dr appt, I brought it up with my doctor because I was worried because my baby never did that.


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## RoadBuddy (May 19, 2005)

My baby is pretty calm. We did everything on the list except no vax - we've selectively vaxed.


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## mama_ani (Aug 2, 2007)

I have AP'd all my kids and had two extremely fussy babies and two very calm babies. Either way I think AP led to happier children overall and saved my sanity with the fussy ones!


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## LittleRockstar (Dec 11, 2006)

I did all but the gentle birth (emergency C-section) and she cried every evening, no matter what. (In my arms, of course). She was happy and at peace the rest of the time.


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

i think the REAL benefits of AP parenting come later...when they are infants, they are learning that they can trust mama, so they are less clingy as toddlers and such.


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

I did everything "right". I did end up with inductions for pre-e, but with ds I used hypnobabies for most of it.

Dd was and still is high needs. She's 6 and still cries at the drop of a hat.

Ds is far more laid back, but when he was a newborn he cried a ton.


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## liseux (Jul 3, 2004)

My first baby had a not very gentle homebirth transfer vacuum birth. All else was like the list and he did cry a lot. i think it had more to do with me being clueless about reading him in the beginning.

Babies 3 & 4 both were calm, both had sched. c/s b/c of a high risk issue with my second birth. The c/s for both was actually extremely gentle, they were very calm and instantly in my arms. Baby 3 cried sometimes, but not one time in the first month. (really) Baby 4 did fuss a little if he wasn't constantly on the boob at about month 2-3--but seriously, since then, he doesn't cry at all the whole day. At night he will only cry at 9 pm on the dot if he is not in my bed, nursing. Even if he gets hurt, he just almost cries. Its pretty nice, but my 4 year old makes up for it with plenty of tantrums!


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## thekimballs (Feb 5, 2004)

Since when does AP mean no circ, no vax, gentle birth? AP generally involves preparation for birth, but nobody gets thrown out of the AP club for having a c-section. NFL, which is a little more "restrictive," often means no circ no vax, but AP both from Sears and the API have NOTHING to do with circ or vax.

I did the things that actually are AP on that list, and my kids have varied widely.


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## SquibsNCrackers (Oct 21, 2005)

You're right, thekimballs. I was using AP/NFL as shorthand for the items on the op's poll.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thekimballs* 
Since when does AP mean no circ, no vax, gentle birth? AP generally involves preparation for birth, but nobody gets thrown out of the AP club for having a c-section. NFL, which is a little more "restrictive," often means no circ no vax, but AP both from Sears and the API have NOTHING to do with circ or vax.

I did the things that actually are AP on that list, and my kids have varied widely.


I dont actually consider vaxxing ap either, but I can see hwo it might cause crying (even after the initial poke). csection has been proven to cause long term crying. not circing is most definitely ap, I would say no hitting would include no cutting....

FWIW, this is a spinoff from another thread where a poster was saying that she does all the ap things and her baby is sooo calm, whereas other children she knows who are not ap'd aer 'fussy'. I've found that I have aped all my kids, but some are fussy (for lask of a better term) and some aren't. I wanted to see what others have found. Mypoint is, that no matter what parenting style you use, kids are born with their very own personalities,,and a lot of how they act has less to do with you than with them.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

and i agree about noone getting thrown out of the ap 'club' for a csec - sometimes it is the safest way to have a baby









but as i said above, it was more to determine what causes crying.


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

I did "some" with 2 and they were fussy. I did "some" with 3 and they were calm. But I could only vote for 2.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thekimballs* 
Since when does AP mean no circ, no vax, gentle birth? AP generally involves preparation for birth, but nobody gets thrown out of the AP club for having a c-section. NFL, which is a little more "restrictive," often means no circ no vax, but AP both from Sears and the API have NOTHING to do with circ or vax.

I did the things that actually are AP on that list, and my kids have varied widely.

Per Dr. Sears' theory of attachment parenting (AP), proponents such as the API attempt to foster a secure bond with their children by promoting eight principles which are identified as goals for parents to strive for. These eight principles are:

Preparation for Pregnancy, Birth and Parenting
Feed with Love and Respect
Respond with Sensitivity
*Use Nurturing Touch*
Engage in Nighttime Parenting
Provide Consistent Loving Care
Practice Positive Discipline
Strive for Balance in Personal and Family Life

I would say that circing is most definitely _not_ nurturing touch.


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## PumpkinSeeds (Dec 19, 2001)

My first was very high needs and a super fussy, grumpy baby.

My second was a dream boat.


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## JessasMilkMama (Oct 24, 2004)

I've done all of that and I find that all babies are different. Some are just more high needs. Eva was and still is very spirited, and cried a lot. She is very intense with her emotions.

The other two have (so far, since the youngest is not quite 6 months) are really mellow, and my first one almost never cried. They are both really happy and gentle. Cora cries if she wakes up and no one is there, or if she has had enough of sitting on her own and wants me, but she stops once I pick her up. Unlike Eva, who just seemed to be really demanding and fussy.


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## JessasMilkMama (Oct 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PumpkinSeeds* 
My first was very high needs and a super fussy, grumpy baby.

My second was a dream boat.

See thats the way it should be - my first was the dream baby and I thought it was because I was such a stellar parent LOL. Then I was in for a real shock with my second!


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
I would say that circing is most definitely _not_ nurturing touch.

No doubt. It's also one of the most detached things I can think of that parents do to a newborn.

I don't consider leaving newborn boys with all there genitalia an AP or NFL thing but a humane thing. Most people I know who don't circ or neither AP or NFL. But I do have a hard time understanding why parents who believe in AP would ever circumcise, it does seem contradictory. Of course not talking about religious circ or uneducated (about circ) parents but parents who know circumcision is unnecessary and painful.


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

I think a lot of it is the child's personality.. I had my eldest almost 16 years ago when I was 19 and everything I did was mainstream, just didn't know any better. Yet he was and is a calm child (never fussed much, just mellow), now dd who is 2.5 I swung 180 degrees in the opposite direction and went AP. At 2.5 she still needs to be carried to sleep, cried and fussed like a banshee, was and still is in arms all the time. Need less to say I am less inclined to say doing XYZ on the AP list will make for a nice calm kid cuz if that is the case why hasn't dd gotten the memo yet.









In the end I practice AP because it seems most respectful to me and I beleive in it and beleive me having been the mainstream Mama with my son, there are days where I am ready to pull my hair out because it feels like dd requires so much more going this path yet I truly believe its her personality.

Shay


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

my first was such a happy baby. My second...well...she sure is loved, but she's a fussy little thing.


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EVC* 
Did all of the above (except I have a girl, so circ wasn't really an issue). I did everyting "right" according to the wisdom of AP. And my daughter cried from the moment her eyes were open until the moment she fell asleep. All day, every day. She was--and is--VERY high needs. It has nothing to do with parenting style, imo, and everything to do with her personality. Some kids are just very intense. Having said that, however, I do believe that "AP" is the kindest, most appropriate response to that.

nice response. my first was same.

I also agree with thekimballs:

Quote:

Since when does AP mean no circ, no vax, gentle birth? AP generally involves preparation for birth, but nobody gets thrown out of the AP club for having a c-section. NFL, which is a little more "restrictive," often means no circ no vax, but AP both from Sears and the API have NOTHING to do with circ or vax.
I go with API definition of AP and practice that with both.

As I have two girls, I am not touching the circ discussion at all.

My first cried for 10 hours a day for 6 weeks. She was and is very intense and high needs and loving and intelligent and glorious and very, very needy. They are what they are.

#2 is much mellower.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

All have gone through fussy phases and calmer phases. I thought all kids did, more or less. Generally, ds1 is my "loud" kid (from early infancy onward), while dd1, ds2, and dd2 are my "quieter" kids, but they have all had loud days and ds1 has had quiet days...


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## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

DD had a gentle birth - vaginal birth, short labor/pushing, no problems.
Circ not an issue
Some vax - mostly fully vaxed through twelve months.
She didn't want to co-sleep at night until about nine months, but napped on me during the day, and was worn most of her waking hours the first 12 mos
Breastfed on cue, but I have tubular breasts, so we have to supplement (and are now pumping)
No CIO, but there were a couple of times where I had to leave the room and just let her cry for a few minutes while I got myself together.

She was "fussy" by your definition in late afternoon for a couple of months, but was pretty "easy" the rest of the time. In fact, someone today commented on how calm and "well-behaved" my baby seemed compared to hers (two days older than mine).

However, she is very intense when she doesn'tget her way (ah, toddler-hood)


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## MelKnee (Dec 5, 2001)

I did it all and I got one of each. Ds was the easiest going baby ever. Dd cries a lot. But, she also laughs a lot. She just has big emotions.


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## JessasMilkMama (Oct 24, 2004)

Btw my second baby was the only one born at home, gently in the water, and she is the one who was the fussy one! My grandpa and dad always teased me about it, saying hospital babies were easier @@


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## SevenVeils (Aug 28, 2006)

I did it all and got some of each. I mostly got the calm kind of babies but my youngest, 13 months, is a very high maintenance person. Like a PP said, he has very big emotions. He laughs his little head off at the littlest things, he gives giant hugs and kisses, expresses gratitude frequently... and cries a lot.


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## EricaE (Aug 1, 2003)

We did everything on the list, and honestly - my baby doesn't cry. He may fuss for 10 seconds right before falling asleep, but he very rarely actually cries. He is extremely happy and content.


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## Gumby (Feb 4, 2007)

dd didn't cry until she was six weeks old. now, depending on what's going on (teething, etc) she has fussy spurts. everyone comments on how happy she is. i know the next one is going to be different, and I'm preparing for it









we do all the ap stuff.


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## thekimballs (Feb 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 

I would say that circing is most definitely _not_ nurturing touch.

If you look at API and Sears, circing is not explicitly AP. There are specific statements saying that API takes no position.


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## ComaWhite (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EVC* 
Did all of the above (except I have a girl, so circ wasn't really an issue). I did everyting "right" according to the wisdom of AP. And my daughter cried from the moment her eyes were open until the moment she fell asleep. All day, every day. She was--and is--VERY high needs. It has nothing to do with parenting style, imo, and everything to do with her personality. Some kids are just very intense. Having said that, however, I do believe that "AP" is the kindest, most appropriate response to that.









:







And my now 4.5yo STILL screams all the time and is STILL very high needs. She's just a fireball. But we love 'er anyways.














My 2nd dd is way way more mellow and what would be considered an "easy" baby.

I think saying ap will equal 'kids like this' completely ignores the fact that everyone has different personalities, that no matter what you do to them, wont change who they are.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

All of my kids cried at least once a day, but I wouldn't consider any of them to be "fussy'- 2 of my kids were very easy going as babies and one was pretty high strung as a baby- one of the calm babies was a very intense toddler and the other two were calmer as toddlers.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
my first was such a happy baby. My second...well...she sure is loved, but she's a fussy little thing.

I know what you mean.







DD cried for the first year of her life. Doing AP things made it worse. She was happiest being stuck in a swing and not looked at. She is still a fussy, high needs toddler that doesn't come close to sleeping through the night. My next child better be easy going.


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## sophiekat (Oct 29, 2005)

someone here has a sig that says "attachment parenting starts with leaving the foreskin attached." except for religious circ, thats pretty much how i see it.







whatever API does or doesnt say on the subject i don't particularly care -- i don't think its especially gentle or responsive of a child's needs to perform cosmetic surgery on them without anaesthesia







: call me crazy.









both my girls were sections, but everything else is on the list. dd1 was/os high needs, and dd2 is downright fussy.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sophiekat* 
someone here has a sig that says "attachment parenting starts with leaving the foreskin attached." except for religious circ, thats pretty much how i see it.







whatever API does or doesnt say on the subject i don't particularly care -- i don't think its especially gentle or responsive of a child's needs to perform cosmetic surgery on them without anaesthesia







: call me crazy.









.

thank you


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## mamallama (Nov 22, 2001)

Doh! I voted wrong. I voted that I did none, but I meant to vote that I did all.

I did all the ap things, and my firstborn was still a wailer. She cried for hours every day for the first 4-5 months of her life.

My second two got all the ap benefits and almost never cried. They would cry for a few minutes a couple of times a week.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gumby* 
dd didn't cry until she was six weeks old. now, depending on what's going on (teething, etc) she has fussy spurts. everyone comments on how happy she is. i know the next one is going to be different, and I'm preparing for it









You may luck out again. I was worried after my first was so calm and content, but both of mine were easy, smiley babies.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I only voted for one child - the one that was fussy.

# 1 would have slept well and been near comotose during her wake hours regardless of if we we the poster parents for AP or left her to her own devices in a basket in the front yard. we Aped but she couldhave cared less. I wouldn't say she was happy baby but she never ever fussed either. she was vaxed to a point and after two very bad reactions we stopped. She was also 6 weeks premature and on a very ridgid schedule in the ICU. She pretty much stuck to it after we got home. seriously, if she was walking around and the clock struck nap time she would fall over asleep. no kidding. I didn't have to do much with her.

#2 = was fussy. What finally turned her into a delightful child was rest, and more rest and plenty of it. and what it took to get that was a rock solid (and very long I might add) bedtime routien, daily schedule, weaning and moving her into her own bed. she is 7 and is still my worst sleeper, still needs a lot of structure, always tired and usually cranky about something.

#3 - was my easy baby. You know when everyone asks you "is she a good baby"? she was and now I know why they ask. its like you won the lottery and they are asking you if you hit the jack pot. Always happy and snuggly and loving. social and sweet. She didn't sit in a room of people, she held court and her admires would come from far and near. even at birth nurses came who weren't assigned to me just to see her. The lab techs refused to poke her because they couldn't bare to make her cry. She really casts a spell on people. She slept well and easily ( and didn't care much if it was with me or not but had to have a consistant place to sleep and we had to stick to the schedule - she was a scheduled baby from birth. after the nightmare of Lilys first year I had to at least try a different path. and with three kids it is hard to keep everyone happy without a routien and schedule), she played well, was perfectuly regular, ate well but not too much. I finally got one that had read the instruction manual dang it (although I owe a lot of it to the fact that she slept well and was on a schedule. I won't lie. I think #2 would have been a lot happier if she were more on a schedule and if she had slept better. and I think she would have slept better if I had a) put her on a schedule from birth and b) allowed her to sleep on her tummy) . and she was just the happiest sweetest baby. Still is .. although a little spoiled at this point . . . hard not to be when everyone treats as though you are a princess.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

DD was a calm baby, or better yet a happy baby. But she did have her moments, days, nights, and phases.







Looking back I think she may have been a high needs baby (she fits so many of the characteristics) but I never thought of her that way at the time. I think being AP really helped us to have such a positive experience.

DD has been amazingly easy so far. He will fuss when he wants something, but is very quick to respond, even when you've got it wrong. He will let me put him down...as long as he can see me or daddy or big sister. He will even accept soothing from others (DD was clear about the fact that it had to be me almost every time). AP parenting helps me to not take advantage of his easy going nature. I find I miss him when I'm not holding him.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

I did a lot of those things though I am not sure I consider us 'ap' as we are not really 'child centred' - we are more TCC as we are more family centred. But I guess thats just a small difference!...

We co sleep, baby (now toddler hehe) wear, no vax, used some cloth nappies but also did EC, no circ (but thats not common in the UK anyhow), responded to my babies needs (obviously hehe) etc etc... And my son pretty much never cried. I would not consider him fussy either. Obviously the first tooth was a bit painful and we are a big unhappy when we have been ill but my son was one of those children (and still is) that often gets labled as 'Good' and 'so obedient' and 'so independent' and 'so happy'... yes I do think he is independent and yes I do think he is happy but people call him this becaues he is 'quiet' and he lives up to 'their standards'...but thats just how he is. He is also highly sensitive and as I am highly sensitive (though I just found both of these things out) I think I made his life comfortable for him without knowing it simply because of my own sensitivity. If that makes sense. So I do think that if I 'parented' differently than he would have been quite a bit unhappy about it and would have certainly let everyone know (by crying of course!). However, though I do feel that 'AP' is a fantastic way to 'parent' and works well for most children - your childs built in personality is something to consider as well. Nature and nurture and all of that. Nurture is certainly very important (and I certainly dont think that because of nature, should nuture ever be not given the credit it deserves!) but nature plays a part too. My son is very 'laid back' but I think thats just in his nature but I know my nuture helps with this.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I only did a few of those things, and my dd was calm, happy, easy going.

BUT, she was sick a LOT. She's 15, and she's still sick a lot.


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Are there babies who don't cry even once a day? Or fuss?

Did some of those things (most) and DS1 was not fussy.
Did some of those things (most) and DS2 was VERY "fussy" actually fussy is way too cute a word for it...


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

We do/did some of those things, and DS is a totally calm kid. Sure, he cries a bit every day, but he is not what people would label "fussy" by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm thinking it has a lot more to do with just who he is as a person, though. He's just always been laid back.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

One fussy baby, one calm baby, did exactly the same with both - actually, I was LESS attentive/responsive/AP to the calm baby than the fussy one since my fussy one was my first born, and frankly, the calm baby could handle less baby holding, etc.

I think the question, frankly, reveals some misunderstandings about the goals and purpose of AP, and what AP (and good parenting in general) is able to achieve.

There are no guarantees in life and no silver bullets. Sure, AP behaviors may increase the chance of an easy baby or may make parenting easier in some situations, but temperament and other factors will outweigh even the "best" parenting techniques.

And the list is full of techniques. AP is more than a checklist of techniques - and is more than "fixing" kids so they "behave" according to our standards of "good" babies. AP is about being in tune with your kids and trying to meet their needs, and not about meeting our own need* for a perfect/easy/"good" child.

Siobhan

* but parental needs should not be forgotten too - the needs of the FAMILY need to be met, to the best of the FAMILY'S ability. This includes mom.


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## WannabeaFarmer (Jul 7, 2006)

Well we have a girl..







So Circ didnt apply and she is pretty much a calm child. We figured out that she needed to be close to us otherwise she would scream as loud as she could. In fact she slept so much that I would have to wake her constantly to feed and change her. Then after we figured out that she needed us close to her(high need?)she really didnt cry, just kinda squeaked a bit








She is a very outgoing toddler and is gaining some independence , but still very high needs. She likes to have that attachment to both of us.
and we just love it too.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

We did all that, except vaxing, my kids were vaxed until recently. Both of them cried but only when they needed something. We did have to go through the colicky, fussy stuff.


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## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

Well I did *some* of the above - and I consider my kids to be calm - although that doesn't mean that they didn't have fussy times occassionally. But I just considered them to be "normal fussy" if that makes any sense.

I have a friend whose baby was truly colicky - of course it turns out she was STARVING her since she only breastfed on a schedule. At least she finally found a lactation consultant who told her to feed her baby - then she stopped being such an unhappy baby.









Maybe by some people's standards my kids are "fussy" but I just consider them to be normal. I was always able to calm them with the boob or just holding them.

peace,
robyn


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## mom2PJS (May 25, 2006)

Girl...No circ
I did vax, although I might have delayed/selective if I had known more ...no vax (I don't necessarily consider this AP, but can see how it might cause a baby to be 'fussy')
I had a scheduled c-section due to a uterine reconstructive surgery. Probably not the most gentle way to enter the world, but DP and I were calm and content with the decision....gentle birth
Every hour or more for the first 6 months or so then around the clock about every 3 hours ...breastfeed on cue
until about 10 months, well she really didn't "sleep" much...coslept
still no .... no cio

Fussy was an understatement. She was alert and aware from day1. People would say "don't let her get overstimulated" ... She woke up overstimulated. She is an inferno of passion, energy and temper. So difficult and so much fun.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

My ds was circed














, vaxed to 12 mos







, and it wasn't a gentle birth







. I was unconscious for hours after his birth, so he didn't nurse at first, and did bonding with dp.
We did bf on cue, cosleep, and held him ALL the time. (Literally, he was in someone's arms at LEAST 23 hours a day- he wouldn't sleep if he wasn't in my arms).
He didn't cry much as long as he was held and nursed when he wanted to be.


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## Qestia (Sep 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 
Are there really people who think if you do everything just right, your child will never cry?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH..whew, let me catch my breath.

I know, just wait till the kid is two!


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

I did all that stuff when my kids were babies, but for some reason it didn't "stick" with my second one! He was calm as a baby, but now at 17 months Henri will whine or scream about something many times a day. He gets so frustrated with his older brother stealing toys from him and learning how to "hold his own" around here. That and there's lots of tumbles and head bumps because he's fearless and doesn't ever look to see what's in front of him. He was a piece-of-cake baby, now he's a whirlwind toddler and things are totally different. Paddy, my 2 year old, was always pretty calm...but then again no one was ever there to steal his toys or pick on him.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

vaxing isn't AP? Are you serious?


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
vaxing isn't AP? Are you serious?

I think that maybe she was referring to the fact that some kids can react negatively to being vaxed. I'm not sure she meant that vaxing meant you weren't AP. I vaxed ds1 completely, though delayed later on, but I still consider myself to be very AP with him.


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

My dd was unvaxed (until age 2), no CIO not even a second, worn almost constantly, slept mostly on me, blah blah blah blah blah.

She was calm as a baby in some respects, fussy in others. No, she did not cry a lot, but I went to extreme measures to keep her from crying. I often stood in the bathroom with all of the water sources running full blast, while rocking her vigorously, for over an hour. Because if I stopped rocking or turned off the water she would wail. To put her to sleep took hours of walking her in the sling. If I stopped she would cry. But I was determined to be AP Superwoman so I did actually manage it so she didn't cry so much!

And when she turned about 6 months, the sleep thing continued to be hard (actually it got progressively worse over the next year) but her disposition became so sunny, she was such a happy and alert baby, and seemed quite calm in almost every situation.

As a young toddler she was very normal. On the go, but not overly so. Other than the sleep, no issues besides the normal developmental ones.

Now she is a 2.5 yo and I'd say the same. She has her little fussy quirks. She is somewhat high-needs. But she is not the most hyper or UN-calm kid I know who is her age, by a long shot. I don't know how better to describe it; just in the middle I guess, temperament-wise. She is very chatty and interested in the world. She also is defiant and throws tantrums sometimes, and we still have a real hard time at night with bedtime although she finally (hallelujah) sleeps through.

I have no idea whether anything I did contributed to her personality, or what. My feeling is that her temperament is somewhat high-needs but not seriously high-needs, and that she is securely attached and happy, and that parenting has obviously contributed to this. But parenting cannot obviate crying or tantrums or difficult behavior; I think almost every kid (excepting kids born with serene temperaments who are just sort of immune to difficult behavior - I'm told they exist) has periods of difficult behavior and developmentally normal frustration, defiance, crying (for an infant), whatever.

All we can do is try to understand why it happens and help our kids make the most of their temperaments. I'm not sure stopping all crying should be the overall goal with infants, actually, although it was a major focus of my day. I just couldn't bear to hear her cry. Perhaps it was the right thing; I just don't see how it would have been feasible if I had had to work or had had another child...I refuse to believe that parents of 2 or more are somehow shortchanging #2, #3 etc. if they can't prevent all of their crying the way they might have been able to for #1. I think babies are more resilient than that.

I also want to say that AP practices have helped foster an amazing bond between my dd, my dh and I. I am SO glad I "found AP". Yet, there are things I would do differently, not as AP, if I had them to do over. I would not cling to co-sleeping when it obviously wasn't working for anyone. I would nightwean sooner. I would learn how to swaddle a baby properly; that might have helped her sleep better in the early days!! And, most of all, I would TRY not to beat myself up so much for not being a perfect mama.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *race_kelly* 
I think that maybe she was referring to the fact that some kids can react negatively to being vaxed. .


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## BunnySlippers (Oct 30, 2007)

I clicked other. I did all of the below and baby was calm, except for her evening fussy hour in the first few months. Or the times my diet consisted of wheat, dairy, tomato.


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## Lady Lilya (Jan 27, 2007)

I skimmed, but didn't read all the posts.

I did all of those things. DS has had everything a baby could want. But he is extremely volatile.

He can go from giggling and squealing with delight, to red-faced inconsolable screaming in about a second over apparently nothing. Then I work my butt off trying to calm him back down as quickly as possible to spare his nervous system and endocrine system from the damage.

Once we accepted that DS WILL cry, a lot, DH and I became much less stressed. Before that, I was a wreck and crying all the time myself.

Even if I do NOTHING but attend to him 24/7, he will scream. So, I feel less guilty about him screaming while I take care of MY needs, since he would be screaming anyway. Less guilty, but still guilty. I don't handle guilt well, which is why before he was born I always did the right thing -- because I was so extremely avoidant of feeling guilty. Now it is impossible not to feel guilty, because no matter what I do it is not possible to keep him happy.


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## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BunnySlippers* 
I clicked other. I did all of the below and baby was calm, except for her evening fussy hour in the first few months.

This was DS2, for the most part.

I chose the first option because I'd consider him a very "calm" baby. I can honestly only remember 3-4 nights where I actually had to _walk the floor_ with him during a particular fussy time. He had fussy tantrums in the evening when my milk supply wasn't enough for him, but those stopped when my supply increased.

Btw, I think every baby "cries at least once a day" (as stated in the OP), regardless of parenting styles. I wouldn't consider that the threshhold for being labeled "fussy".


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

I don't like the 'AP as a shopping list' concept and I haven't read all the posts but I think AP affects the way you _react_ to a baby crying; it doesn't _prevent_ it.


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## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
I think AP affects the way you _react_ to a baby crying; it doesn't _prevent_ it.

Excellent point







That's pretty much my attitude, as well.

I think the idea (about AP) that if you "do it right" your baby will never cry just sets moms up for guilt and stress.


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## 93085 (Oct 11, 2007)

Both girls were parented almost identically in terms of our parental approach (some AP, some not). Their birth experiences were not dissimilar. My youngest is calm and happy and easily soothed. My first had scorching colic from the age of 5 days until well past 2 months. (She's fine now at 4 /2







)

A parent really doesn't have that much control over a newborn's personality. It always seems kind of narcissistic of me when people think they do.


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## Four&Me (Nov 6, 2007)

if by cry and fussy you mean when there is nothing wrong, for 'no' reason at all then no all of mine were not like that.
but if you mean cry until they get what they are wanting.. then yes definitely!! mostly it was for wanting to be held or nursing.
they all definitely had not so gentle birth. the oldest vacc'd a few times. the youngest no vacs ever. (but one had hospital iv), no circ, yes breastfeed on cue, yes coslept and no cio. (btw... maybe im reading this wrong, but NINE + 3 people picked they did none of the list meaning they USED CIO??? i didnt read all the posts so maybe it was before they found ap? hopefully yes!







)


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