# Please talk to me about low progesterone *update HCG question*!



## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I will get right to it since I need to make some decisions~

I am 5 and half weeks and have spotted over the last week. I had my blood taken yesterday, and they said my hcg levels were 2500 and my progesterone was low, 7.5.

I had this done at an OB's office because they are closer than a midwife and I could get it done fast.

They offered me progesterone supplements, but said I would have to sign a waiver that says the progesterone has been linked to a birth defect~hypospadias~in boys.

I then called the nurse midwife and told her my levels. She said the progesterone was low, and recommended I take natural progesterone supplements.

I feel very torn over this.

I get my bloodwork done tomorrow to see if the hcg is doubling.

I am really not comfortable taking anything unusual right now. Herbal or otherwise~my son has several serious cardiac defects, and we waited a long time to try again. This is a critical time for heart formation and I am very torn over whether to let nature take it's course or intervene here.


----------



## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I have had low progesterone (I think normal is around 10 or so, pregnant is higher, and mine was 8 while pregnant) and have take progesterone in both pill form and vaginal suppositories. No one EVER told me their were risks of birth defects.







:

Are there risks with the natural progesterone cream?


----------



## RachelGS (Sep 29, 2002)

I would take it. You are likely to miscarry without it. The risks are very, very small, and TONS of women take it with no ill effects at all. It's probably the most common fertility treatment.

Hang in there, mama.


----------



## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

That's why I took it- we lost our first baby.
Hugs, mama- it's a tough decision!


----------



## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Okay here is my post of the day that someone is going to roll their eyes over but it is something I have first hand experience and research with.

Natural Progesterone: Its a joke for trying to maintain levels high enough for pregnancy. You would have to eat jars of the stuff for it to be beneficial or bather in a tub of it daily. It just burns me up to no end that women are using this stuff to help maintain pregnancies or get high enough levels to sustain a pregnancy and there is absolutely no way these creams or supplements can do this for you. There is normally not enough progesterone in the whole jar to help in this matter.

I've had low progesterone and had miscarriages because of it. You need at least a level of 10 to maintain a pregnancy but most OBs like to see it higher (20plus). In my last pregnancy I brought charts (two with early miscarriages) that I showed my doctor indidacting progesterone problems (low temps, positive tests, then a period/miscarriage) I got a positive on 11DPO and went to my doctor on 13DPO in my last pregnancy and started vaginal progesterione suppositories. My level that day was 19, and fluctuated downwards until I had a steady dose of progesterone in my system. I did this for the next 11 weeks. It wasnt pleasant. I was moody, constipated, etc but I felt it was worth it since I wanted to stay pregnant and experience pregnancy and having a baby again. (we had adopted 8.5 months earlier) There is no doubt that the progesterone helped. There are several studies about use of progesterone in pregnancy, some say it is beneficial and some say it is not. I have enough clients with low progesterone and that have had miscarriages to know that , yes it does work. (I teach fertility awareness)
I am currently 26 weeks pregnant. I choose not to do progesterone treatments. One because I was ill and miserable taking them in my last pregnancy. Even though I wanted another child, I wasn't willing to take medication at that time to maintain a pregnancy. My husband was unhappy with my decision (he's very prolife), and its not like I wanted an abortion, I just didn't want to be taking medication that was going to make me sick when I have three other kids to care for at that time. (we were planning to wait until our middle child was in school fulltime).
Also I didnt find out I was pregnant until I was nearly 7 weeks and had an US that confirmed dates and a strong heartbeat. I felt better about my decision but did have my progesterone level drawn. At my 11 week appt, I found out my progesterone level was 14. I had a huge sick feeling in my stomach because that was lower than with previous pregnancies (even ones that didnt make it). Again we picked up a strong heartbeat on US. I have had an uneventlful pregnancy thus far. I feel lucky and that the heavens must really want us to have this child in our family. However I don't want people to read this and think, she didn't do it and she is still pregnant -- because there were times before when I didn't take supplements and lost pregnancies early on.

I think its a very personal decision. I think it was well worth it to do it and I have encouraged people to take the supplements. *NOTE* though progesterone has been linked with some birthdefects, its doesnt necessarily cause them. This is still up in the air. When they are doing studies, they have to note the outcomes of the pregnancies and any birthdefects, its really hard to say if it was because of the progesterone or not. My son takes a med that in one study showed a flesh eating virus was associated with it -- the truth is, two of the people at the time in the study were exposed to this virus and got it - but because they did, they have to note that it took place while on this medication. Progesterone does cause other side effects though, they are tolerable for the most part.


----------



## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

I know this is a sore subject for many, having had two miscarriages myself I do sympathize.
However, there has never been even one study done to show that progesterone drops before HCG drops. So what can be a "normal" progesterone level can vary by pregnancy, but taking it won't prevent a miscarriage, it will however prolong a pregnancy.
The rates for successful pregnancy with progesterone supplementation are about 80%. Same as for without.
BUT, I believe the risk of defect is extremely small and therefore if you feel it will make you feel better to "do something", it would be okay to take it. Good luck!


----------



## pixiedust (Dec 24, 2004)

that is a low level. I have been on progesterone supplements for this pregnancy after having 4 m/c's because of low level's and yesterday we saw a heartbeat so so far it is working. I think it is a very personal decision though and up to you.


----------



## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I don't want to hijack, but you all seem very knowledgable. Is there something I can do to boost my progesterone levels *before* TTC?


----------



## Nosy (Feb 23, 2004)

Annettemarie, I believe you can take B6 and or Vitex to boost progesterone pre-pregnancy. I think a few mamas over on the TTC while nursing thread take it. My acupuncturist says he can increase progesterone levels (my luteal phase was 7 days last month!), but I haven't seen any results yet.

Best of luck to you Heartmama. It's an agonizing decision to take medication while pregnant!


----------



## shannon0218 (Oct 10, 2003)

I used progesterone for this pregnancy, after 3 miscarriages, I wasn't up for taking any chances.
I researched and researched until I was blue and I could not find any evidence of side effects that affect the baby. I got headaches for the first 2 weeks, I had spotting that was caused by the progesterone (it increases uterine lining and dilates blood vessels "down there" and can cause spotting especially if use the suppositories vaginally. I used mine rectally (which also helped with the constipation :LOL) My 7dpo prog level was 6.3, 14 dpo was 9 (on supplementation) There is extremely mixed opinions as to whether it works once your progesterone has started to drop.
Like OTF said, natural progesterone creams are a bunch of bunk, perhaps if you swallow a tube of it 3 times a day it may have some effect. However, the progesterone suppositories that are compounded at the pharmacy are natural progesterone--this is NOT the same as chemical progesterone used as birth control or for helping with menopause symptoms--completely different bird (actually, I think they sometimes use nat prog for menopause)
The only way to get a truly accurate prog level is with endometrial biopsy. The RE I saw for recurrent m/c is in the process of a study right now. For me, in spite of 200 mg of prog 3 x daily, my prog level never really went very high--his explanation, when the suppositories are used, it is first absorbed by the tissues in that area, so sometimes by the time we test the blood it has disipated. He showed me many case histories with low blood levels and the endometrial biopsy done that same day showed perfectly sufficient prog levels.
Oh and more bad news.....you may have lousy progesterone one month and just fine the next month (and I mean in a non-pregnant state)
As for the studies that say it doesn't help, they're pretty darn iffy. I have a clotting disorder and a TON of doctors say heparin injections will NOT prevent a first tri loss and they also say that clotting disorders DO NOT cause first tri miscarriages. However on a yahoo group I belong to for clotting disorders in pregnancy there is a HUGE population that had multiple miscarriages (and I'm talking 3-15) but as soon as they used heparin they somehow managed to have successful pregnancies. I know you don't have a clotitng problem, but this is just to show that some of those studies aren't really worth the paper they're written on.


----------



## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Well the doctor forgot to check my progesterone levels with the last blood test









However my hcg levels which were 2500 are now 3300, after 48 hours. I thought that sounded low, not doubled, but he said it was good.

Doesn't have to double to be normal and good??


----------



## tilly2321 (Apr 12, 2002)

There was just a study in a reputable journal, which I knew which one it was that showed a decrease in preterm labor if progesterone supplementation is used. Apparently, it can help relax the uterine muscles in some way. I think progesterone might eventually be used for this reason if the research continues to be promising. If anyone has a link to the article, please post it.
My R.E. is part of a team that was ranked third in the nation for endocrinology. He told me that progestins had been linked to birth defects (the synthetic form), but not natural progesterone (compounded suppositories or the microionized pill form(Prometrium). I personally am very wary of the link between natural progesterone and hypospadias. I would make sure I knew exactly what kind of progesterone you are receiving.
I was miscarrying consistently and didn't even know it due to low progesterone. I decided to go on supplementation and am now almost 12 weeks. True, I might have carried this one to term without it, but to me the benefits did outweigh any risks. I also would take progesterone if preterm labor was ever an issue without giving it a second thought.
Whatever anyone chooses is ultimately the best decision for them, but making decisions out of misinformation can be so harmful. Please ask your provider about the difference between synthetic and natural progesterone and the risk of birth defects. Please share with us what you learn.
Elle


----------



## Full Heart (Apr 27, 2004)

I would love to see the study that links progesterone to Hypospadias. I thought it was genetic. Links would be appreciated!

Michelle


----------



## shannon0218 (Oct 10, 2003)

Once you get to between 6 & 7 weeks your beta levels don't necessarily double anymore, I think your # is high enough, also in the very beginning it should double every 2-3 days, so it's entirely possible that after 72 hrs you will be at 5000.
HTH.


----------



## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Heartmama - I'm right there with you.









At 10dpo my prog was 20, at 12dpo it was 17.8, and at 18dpo it was 12.9. I'm now taking prometrium, 200mg/day orally. The practice I go to generally prescribes progesterone if your level gets under 15. I was not asked to sign a waiver and all my research online makes me feel that there is not a significant risk to the baby. I also have a few friends who have taken progesterone and they were very reassuring. I'll be five weeks pregnant tomorrow.

My mother had one miscarriage and bleeding throughout one of her pregnancies, and when discussing this with her and my dad they both said they wished that progesterone level monitoring and supplementing had been available in the '70s because things might have been different for them. I don't want to look back and have regrets like that someday, so I'm choosing to take the supplements.


----------



## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Wow. I never knew there were possible side effects, esp. birth defects, from progesterone. I assumed that since it's what the body naturally produces, it would be completely safe.

I took Prometrium because I had bad spotting every menstrual cycle once it returned after my daughter was over a year old. I was lucky that my spotting was a literal "big red flag" that something was wrong . . .and never suffered a miscarriage (but a possible chemical pregnancy) in order to learn that progesterone was the problem. Prometrium never affected me negatively, that I'm aware of, other than being somewhat messy.

The month I got pregnant was the month my dosage was doubled and I used it vaginally . . .we'll never know for sure, but have believed it was what allowed me to get pregnant.

The difficult part with some pregnancies is figuring out which came first: a low progesterone level leading to the loss of the baby, or a the loss of a baby (for other reasons) leading to low progesterone.

heartmama,







to you while you make your difficult decision.


----------

