# Speedon't



## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I need some help.

My neighbor likes to wear his speedo. it is the tiniest speedo I have ever seen. In light of its string sides and almost thong behind and floral design i suspect it is womens bikini bottoms. it doesn't cover everything (it doesn't cover much of anything). he also wears thin cotton knit skin tight short shorts. and he wears them wet. they are fairly see through when they are dry . . . It is disgusting to me but a man has a right to wear whatever he wants on his property (or does he? I won't lie. it is indecent to the point where if he comes into the front yard wearing the speedo again I will call the police and let them decide). thus far I have let it slide thinking it was none of my business and who am I to judge.

Up to this point if my Victorian sensibilities are offended that is my business and my problem and I just deal with it without troubling them. i don't go out my back door, shut my curtains, and call the girls home. it is not worth upsetting neighbors over. I don't want to be imposing my standards on others. I know i sometimes go overboard compared to normal mainstream standards. However it stands to reason there are consequences for dressing immodestly. if you insist on dressing like that people may avoid you. The other consequences is that when he is in his speedo people come from all over the neighborhood to gawk (seriously people will drive circles around the neighborhood just for laughs, rumor has it they have come from up to 10 blocks away as word spread), people assume he is a pervert (someone called me once to alert me that he was talking to my children).

the problem and how this effects me. i like my neighbors. they are really sweet people. not always the most aware people but genuinely sweet and their little boy adores my children and they adore him. All summer long the kids have been running back and forth between houses. Its exactly the way I wanter summers to be for my children. roaming around the neighborhood in packs but between the homes of people I have spent years forming a relationship with and can trust. up untill a week ago they always played in the front yard. I could easily see everything from my kitchen. but they got a big water toy and everyone has been playing in the back yard mostly. ok fine. the girls said that J.s dad was out there but he was wearing trunks. surprising but good because I hadn't seen the speedo in a while and thought he had given it up. so then the other day I walk out there and almost fainted. I seriously thought he buck naked. he was sitting and nothing of the speedo was showing. I was there to collect the girls but hurried them on hoping he wouldn't stand up. i told the girls they had to come home if he came out in the speedo again or as my four year old called it "all that naked stuff" . today I found out his trunks were those thin white knit skin tight things. We decided they could not go over there at all. I just cannot trust him to use good judgment around my girls. J can still play over here and they can play in the front yard if i am with them (that way we can bail if he shows up in the see through stretch shorts). easy enough.

but

It is going to need to be addressed as to why my children are no longer allowed to play over there (or it may appear they are just being antisocial snobs). Either way it is going to be obvious they are no longer playing over there. My neighbor is so super sensitive. She also sees herself as the victim in everything (she takes kids acting up like kids do very personally. I don't think it occurs to her that they just weren't thinking about her at all. ) She is already a little embarrassed about the speedos but just sort rolls her eyes (in the same manner I do about some of my husbands fashion choices, except even with his worst choices his privates are totally private.)I fear bringing it up at all will ruin our friendship and cause my children to lose a friend. I know she will be mortified. I really want to spare her feels as much as possible but it just had to be addressed because not doing it would only cause more hurt. this all seems like common sense to me too. like he should know better. but he doesn't. like it is just a fashion choice. so not only am i going to be telling her I am embarrassed to be in her husbands presence when he is uncovered but that I don't think they have the sense to know any better so we can't trust them to use good judgment with our children.

oh my gosh. I would rather be tortured than have this conversation with her.

but never the less . . . .

Lets say your husband had a bad habit. and someone who really does love you has decided this is beyond her ability to just let it slide. Is there any good way to approach it. Any way to soften the blow of "gee I know you guys are great people and we really like you and enjoy your company (when you cover yourself) but i think your husband is showing way to much of his bits to my children (and me for crying out loud) and we just don't trust you guys to use common sense around other people concerning reasonable levels of modesty. and since we can't trust you with something so obvious to us we don't think we can trust you with out children at all. I am uncomfortable, my children are embarrassed and my husband is ticked. Your son is free to play over here but i simply can't allow my children to play over there because this is not working for us."

please tell me there is a nice comfortable, feelings sparing way to say that. please tell me if this was your husband that this would not be news to you and you would be understanding (mad at your husband and not your friend).

TIA for any help.


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## QueenSheba'sMom (Feb 4, 2003)

Oh my goodness, if this has bothered you this much, then it has got to be a relief to finally talk to her!

Just tell her that it's fine and good for him to dress in whatever way he pleases, but you feel uncomfortable having your kids in a situation where so much of her husband is exposed to them.

ETA: You can soften it by inviting her and her son over to your house anytime.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
..."gee I know you guys are great people and we really like you and enjoy your company (when you cover yourself) but i think your husband is showing way to much of his bits to my children (and me for crying out loud) and we just don't trust you guys to use common sense around other people concerning reasonable levels of modesty. and since we can't trust you with something so obvious to us we don't think we can trust you with out children at all. I am uncomfortable, my children are embarrassed and my husband is ticked. Your son is free to play over here but i simply can't allow my children to play over there because this is not working for us."...

There's too much 'you' in this, and not enough 'I'. Save the honesty for us; we're happy to listen to it and we'll chip in our two cents. It won't go over well at all with the neighbors, though.

Something more along the lines of 'I'm sorry, we've always been a bit prudish in my family. My _husband and I_ (toss in the whole set of adults - it carries more weight) are uncomfortable with how revealing some of your husband's swimwear is. To be honest, it makes our kids uncomfortable too. Would there be any way he could use the boxer swimtrunks during the daytime hours when the children are around, to save us some embarrassment?'

p.s. I think he's probably just an exhibitionist. We had a guy like that in our neighborhood when I was a kid. He'd wear baggy bermuda shorts with no underwear. When just the kids were around he'd sit down and make sure to have his pant leg pulled up so that his genitalia was visible.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
There's too much 'you' in this, and not enough 'I'. Save the honesty for us; we're happy to listen to it and we'll chip in our two cents. It won't go over well at all with the neighbors, though.

Something more along the lines of 'I'm sorry, we've always been a bit prudish in my family. My _husband and I_ (toss in the whole set of adults - it carries more weight) are uncomfortable with how revealing some of your husband's swimwear is. To be honest, it makes our kids uncomfortable too. Would there be any way he could use the boxer swimtrunks during the daytime hours when the children are around, to save us some embarrassment?'

thank you. this is exactly the sort of help i was needing. There is no way i would have said like i said above to them.

unfortunately since they haven't used any discernment thus far my husband just doesn't trust them to make good decisions and doesn't want them over there at all. there is also some other weirdness too which isn't weird like seeing your neighbors penis but weird like "why have they never opened their door to us in the last six years? Are they hiding something?" This is a friendship we have kind been resisting but they are sweet and the kids love each other . . . and it is nice to to be friendly with your neighbors. So I have been trying to overlook all the weirdness but this just crosses a line.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

First of all, Lilyka -- that was one of your most entertaining posts ever! Seriously well written -- do you have a blog???

Secondly -- I would not go through is wife. I HATE when people have a problem with my husband they try to put me in the middle. Makes me crazy.

But, I can see that you can't really talk directly to him about it. Ugh. Shudder. Yuck.

What about this: What if your husband has a man-to-man conversation with this guy? I mean, it is your Dh's responsibility too, to look out for his girls. And I bet he could come up with a way to approach it that would not be too wordy, and not carry a lot of emotional implications and relational weirdness. I can imagine something like, _"Friend-- you need to cover that stuff up a little better around my daughters, 'kay?"_

Thats what I'd do anyway. I'd put it on my DH.


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## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
What about this: What if your husband has a man-to-man conversation with this guy? I mean, it is your Dh's responsibility too, to look out for his girls. And I bet he could come up with a way to approach it that would not be too wordy, and not carry a lot of emotional implications and relational weirdness. I can imagine something like, _"Friend-- you need to cover that stuff up a little better around my daughters, 'kay?"_

Thats what I'd do anyway. I'd put it on my DH.










That's actually what I would do, too








Well, actually, I wouldn't be able to *STOP* DP from saying something







he's not bashful and get's totally "papa bear" when there's any weirdness like that around the kids.
(he had a run-in with a questionable teacher when he was younger and is super-vigilant about inappropriate adult behavior like that)


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
I need some help.

My neighbor likes to wear his speedo. it is the tiniest speedo I have ever seen. In light of its string sides and almost thong behind and floral design i suspect it is womens bikini bottoms. it doesn't cover everything (it doesn't cover much of anything). he also wears thin cotton knit skin tight short shorts. and he wears them wet. they are fairly see through when they are dry . . . It is disgusting to me but a man has a right to wear whatever he wants on his property (or does he? I won't lie. it is indecent to the point where if he comes into the front yard wearing the speedo again I will call the police and let them decide). thus far I have let it slide thinking it was none of my business and who am I to judge.
<snip>
...people assume he is a pervert (someone called me once to alert me that he was talking to my children).
<snip>
this all seems like common sense to me too. like he should know better. but he doesn't. like it is just a fashion choice.
<snip>
*"gee I know you guys are great people and we really like you and enjoy your company (when you cover yourself) but i think your husband is showing way to much of his bits to my children (and me for crying out loud)* ...and we just don't trust you guys to use common sense around other people concerning reasonable levels of modesty. and since we can't trust you with something so obvious to us we don't think we can trust you with out children at all. I am uncomfortable, my children are embarrassed and my husband is ticked. Your son is free to play over here but i simply can't allow my children to play over there because this is not working for us."

First, I guess I'd be of the camp that assumes (or observes) that he is a pervert. It is not ok for a grown man to parade around in front of children in totally inappropriately revealing clothes... maybe in Brazil, or the Riviera... But you're not in one of those places, are you? Nor are they from somewhere where that is considered acceptable, are they? He is wearing these items because he gets something out of it, right? Maybe he would justify it as maintaining his tan-lines, whatever, but he likely has a motive in dressing this way, and my bet is that it's nothing so innocent as bad taste in fashion.

What if he _is_ a pervert? What if the reason you all haven't been invited over in 6 years is because the house is littered with porn? What if he's grooming his kids (or yours??) with this behavior? He could be seriousll mentally ill... His wife sounds like she's accustomed to being a victim... maybe she is one. This all sounds like a bunch of big signals, red flags, girl... and I'd have a hard time NOT acting, assertively, to protect my children.

I bolded above what I thought was an awesome way to approach the situation. You already know what to say, and framing it just that way, lightly, is a good start... If you are sure he is not a sexual deviant, but just has poor judgement, then please know it's totally your right to step up and say something. Do you have to totally draw the line? Do you think there is any chance, with a firm and compassionate approach, such that you described, that he'd be able to just edify his apparel when the kids are about, and thus your kids could still go over there? Maybe he just really has no idea and would be respecting of your request that he cover himself more thoroughly.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
Something more along the lines of 'I'm sorry, we've always been a bit prudish in my family. My _husband and I_ (toss in the whole set of adults - it carries more weight) are uncomfortable with how revealing some of your husband's swimwear is. To be honest, it makes our kids uncomfortable too. Would there be any way he could use the boxer swimtrunks during the daytime hours when the children are around, to save us some embarrassment?'

p.s. I think he's probably just an exhibitionist. We had a guy like that in our neighborhood when I was a kid. He'd wear baggy bermuda shorts with no underwear. When just the kids were around he'd sit down and make sure to have his pant leg pulled up so that his genitalia was visible.

I like that approach, too, taking ownership of your own perceptions and preferences will go a long way, I think...

As for exhibitionism... my experience has been that there is no such thing as _just an exhibitionist_. These people (chemically imbalanced, mentally ill, or abuse victims themselves that have fractured personalities...) are sexual deviants... in the right 'climate' they invariably step up their exercising of sexual deviance until they're able to exploit someone on a deeper level... this behavior leads to worse behaviors, which lead to criminal behaviors... kwim? The whole thing would make me extremely nervous...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
<snip>
What about this: What if your husband has a man-to-man conversation with this guy? I mean, it is your Dh's responsibility too, to look out for his girls. And I bet he could come up with a way to approach it that would not be too wordy, and not carry a lot of emotional implications and relational weirdness. I can imagine something like, _"Friend-- you need to cover that stuff up a little better around my daughters, 'kay?"_

Thats what I'd do anyway. I'd put it on my DH.









Ditto to the above... if there is a friendship there, and it's salvageable (meaning, again, that you are steadfastly positive you're not dealing with a sex offender) then try out a few approaches like this, first, before going the total-cut-off route.

If you can use a cavalier attitude or humor, all the better. "Dude, this is SO not the French Riviera... this is suburbia, and it's not ok to show so much of you man-parts to my little girl, savvy?" Maybe you could adopt the same posture with his wife... "So, yeah, your dh is quite the exhibitionist... Has he always worn your bikinis?" If you can come at it from a place of humor, then maybe it would be easier to segue into something like, "His swim wear is a hot-topic at our place. Dh and I come from pretty prudish backgrounds. We're pretty modest around our place. Do you think your dh would be bothered if he were asked to cover himself a bit more um... _effectively_, at least around us and our kids? It's just kind of uncomfortable for us, and I didn't want to embarass you guys... But we have been wondering if and how we should say something to you guys..."

Hope you find a resolution you can feel good about!


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## AngieB (Oct 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 

What about this: What if your husband has a man-to-man conversation with this guy? I mean, it is your Dh's responsibility too, to look out for his girls. And I bet he could come up with a way to approach it that would not be too wordy, and not carry a lot of emotional implications and relational weirdness. I can imagine something like, _"Friend-- you need to cover that stuff up a little better around my daughters, 'kay?"_

Thats what I'd do anyway. I'd put it on my DH.

















:

This is a great idea, make it a man to man thing.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Ahh, but you left out the most important part of this tale.

Does he look good in those speedos?








:


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## tamagotchi (Oct 16, 2005)

Some men are not exhibitionists, but just don't care about how much other people see. In 6 years of marriage I haven't been able to get my DH to stop walking around nude in front of the windows







He just doesn't care, and he still doesn't understand why it bothers me either! He'll also go out into our yard semi-dressed to adjust the sprinkler or whatever.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Him and my husband don't really know each other. The only time dh has seen him in the speedo I had to wrestle the camera out of his hands. I should have let him go crazy. we might not be having this discussion now. He thinks they are totally nuts, wants nothing to do with them and isn't worried about offending them. and really if they weren't so sweet their weirdness would be way over the top. I truly don't believe he is a perv and I think he treats his wife like a princess. her victim thing is rooted more in self centeredness i think. maybe victim really isn't the word. she takes everything really personally (my friend and I like to play armchair psychologist and for a long time she was our favorite subject). Like one example is we were on the playground with a bunch of preschoolers and one threw woodchips. one hit her in te eye. Ok that hurts bad but instead of turning to the litle boy and saying "hey we don't throw woodchips" or even "you hurt me I would like you to tell me you are sorry" she asks him "why did you do that to me? why do you hate me?" like he did it on purpose. it never occurred to her that she was even on his radar. and another example is one day she came over bawling about something horrid her sister did obviously just to hurt her and how she could never forgive her and doesn't think she will ever get over it. it was so henneous she couldn't even tell me what it was until months later. the big offense? her sister was house sitting and brought a friend with her. yeah. thats it (again with the really weird aversion to having people in her house. and it isn't a messy issue. She knows she doesn't have to be shy after seeing my house. she always pops in right in that "oh my gosh we are finally done with the homeschooling and the errands and the work of the day and all i want to do is sit on my butt and surf around on mothering and watch law and order and be left alone for 60 minutes before starting supper" and of course at that time of day my house is a total disaster. and now that I think about this in six years I have never ever once seen their curtains open anywhere in the house. it kinda gets creepier the more I think about it. but i digress.)

and ya know . . up until this point the whole speedo thing has been kinda funny. It really is one of the neighborhoods favorite things to gab about - speedo sightings. in our neighborhood, meth houses are on the verge of blowing up, drug deals are being done in our yards, we are surrounded by pedophiles, gangsters, prostitutes and the majority of my kids little friends have a parent in the penn. and then there are the people across the street who live in a tent in their front yard all summer while blasting country music (we are not sure weather to be amused or disturbed by this). a middle aged, balding, over weight, norweigen mowing his lawn in a speedo is just funny as heck and really low on my list of complaints. but the girls are getting bigger and the panties are getting smaller. . . . its just gross now. And there are a lot of Europeans in our neighborhood. we see speedos (real ones) at the pool. its not the same. My husband is an avid cyclist and owns a bike shop. they see men in bike shorts (real ones) all the time and it is not the same. these leave nothing to the imagination. and besides just their essence sometimes you actually see flesh. he is not fully covered. I would think even the most liberal nudist would have some sort of minimum requirement when in public.

I don't feel comfortable talking to him about what I am seeing here. its hard for me to make eye contact with him when he waltzes outside wearing this stuff but my other option is looking down and I do not want to do that. no. not down. I think I will probably just approach it with a "ya know . . I am pretty old fashioned and I just think the girls are getting too old to see your husband walking around in so little clothing. I am not trying to tell you guys what to do, its none of my business (boy . . that is the whole point isn't it.) but I am not comfortable with them hanging out over there when he is wearing that stuff. I just didn't want you to think you guys had done anything wrong (and really there is nothing wrong with going buck naked in your back yard if you want to so long as no one has to witness it. of course our third story play room looks right down into their back yard . . . .privacy fence my butt. but if I am offended I can draw the curtains. I know I am a prude and I don't mind being the one to hide my eyes when need be.), really you haven't, if you guys are comfortable with that thats great and I am not mad or anything, it just makes the girls and I really uncomfortable to be hanging out with a guy in so little clothing. even their dad stays pretty modest around the house in the presence of all these ladies so it is really not something they are used to. " that way I am not asking them to change anything. Just explaining why we aren't comfortable hanging out in their back yard. Does that sound Ok?


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

To be perfectly honest, I would not trust a guy like that with my kids in any way shape or form. Yes he might be simply odd but there's a reasonable chance it's more than mere oddness and that to me is not an acceptable risk when it comes to kids. Especially because you mention feeling awkward about other details such as them not inviting you over--that's a pile of warning signs. Trust your instincts.

I'd suggest that you not make your explanation too focused on the "speedos" because even if he stops wearing them, would that necessarily make him more trustworthy?

Not sure what you _could_ tell them besides that, though. Just remember that the safety of your kids is far more important than your neighbors' feelings.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calidris* 
Ahh, but you left out the most important part of this tale.

Does he look good in those speedos?








:

Puh-leeze. _Nobody_ looks good in a speedo. No matter how buff the bod.







:


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## GranoLLLy-girl (Mar 1, 2005)

I don't know--by the way you describe him, he's probably pretty harmless. I mean, if he's mowing the yard in the speedos, he's probably more a perpetrator of bad fashion than a perpetrator of criminal behavior/pedophile. Some people (especially older folks) really DON'T have an idea of what is tasteful. My former neighbor (she was 55, weighed somewhere around 300 or more and was no taller than 4 feet) was a bit of a Tammy Faye (may she rest in peace) in her fashion sense--bleached hair, long fake nails, three sets of fake eyelashes and the topper: she was lay out in her back yard with only a thong on--oh yeah--no top, just bottoms--and when she stood up, the bottoms were covered by flesh so she looked completely nude.

I would hate to see that you lose a friendship/neighborly connection over such a thing. I will say, our new neighbors (who took the place of Tammy Faye look-a-like in a thong) have stayed away from us because we commented on the loud music coming from their house late one night, keeping up the kids...I thought, well, I could have called the police--it was after 10 PM and you could hear it all over the beach. Oh well. Things have never been the same. And we really liked them a lot--they were (or so I thought) really nice folks. But some people are really sensitive about being told what is appropriate or not...yk?

My thought is this--fall will be here before you know it. You seem to have a really good sense of humor about it (I especially LOVE the title of this thread--what fun)--is there any way that you could talk to your girls that this is inappropriate but harmless UNLESS--fill in the blank...?
Afterall, the neighbors are driving from blocks away to get a peek--sounds really funny rather than something to worry about.

I wish I had better advice--but these things I probably wouldn't do--talk to the wife (as others have suggested) or keep the kids away (that might cause problems later down the road).
One last idea--if they hang their clothes on a line--steal the speedo and sell it on eBay, complete with a photo of the guy wearing it. Just kidding.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
p.s. I think he's probably just an exhibitionist. We had a guy like that in our neighborhood when I was a kid. He'd wear baggy bermuda shorts with no underwear. When just the kids were around he'd sit down and make sure to have his pant leg pulled up so that his genitalia was visible.

I hate to be the one to break this to you but that guy was a pedophile. He was a flasher and they do this to groom the children to become more comfortable with sexual behavior before they actually touch them. Sad but true, exhibitionists don't cross the line between kids and adults, it stays with legal people only. Child molesters are the ones that make sure the kiddos can see their package.


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## MovingMomma (Apr 28, 2004)

I agree w/having your DH handle it. Cut out the middle (wo)man. The guy is more likely to take your concerns seriuosly coming from another guy than from his wife's friend via his wife, y/k?


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## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the guy is a pedophile. I mean maybe, but not necessarily.

We have a neighborhood "naked guy" - always, always has his shirt off. He's a personal trainer and I assume that he is advertising his product (big pecs!) We all make jokes about it.

My DH sometimes goes outside in his undies (which I always make fun of) to get the mail or whatever. He says "what, they look like shorts!" Uh, no.

Sometimes I think this behavior is just a guy thing - they all think they are adonises no matter how hairy or love-handled they are! LOL

Maybe the reason you've never been invited over is that they are a "naked" family? You know people who like to be nude in their own house? Or maybe their house is a pigsty. Or maybe they have a gazillion cats. Or a man-eating python. I mean it really could be anything. Don't read too much into it and then scare yourself for no reason!

Hopefully your DH will have a conversation with this guy. Otherwise, I like some of the other approaches people have suggested about just telling the family you are uncomfortable....if these people have a shred of decency they will understand!

good luck
peace,
robyn


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Loving the ads at the bottom of this thread.

The guy sounds harmless to me, and though I'm sure we'd laugh abiout him, it would not cross my mind to keep my kids away from him and his house. DP walks around in short shorts and our friends tease him about it, they don't find him (or us) scary or dangerous for it.

I really think you should just let it go. You said yourself you don't feel like the guy is a threat, so it doesn't seem worth wrecking your friendship and the kids' good times.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman* 
I hate to be the one to break this to you but that guy was a pedophile. He was a flasher and they do this to groom the children to become more comfortable with sexual behavior before they actually touch them. Sad but true, exhibitionists don't cross the line between kids and adults, it stays with legal people only. Child molesters are the ones that make sure the kiddos can see their package.

Lilyka, I'm going to share something on this thread that I hope puts the concerns that this might not be a benign situation into perspective. We've had our family house since '81. When I was a kid, I knew all the neighbors, had been inside almost every house. As a teen, I had work whenever I wanted as a sitter. I knew all the gossip, all the happenings, and was friends with just about everyone.

There were a couple of speedo guys back then, too (isn't there always?) and I totally acknowledge that in some cases it's just a cultural thing, or bad judgement. That being said, one of the families I knew sounds JUST like you neighbors. They were twitchy about having people in the house. They were exceedingly sweet. Especially the fragile and somewhat neurotic wife. He walked around in short shorts until the first freaking frost every year! They had a young boy and girl, a pool, lotsa fun water toys, and the kids in the hood were invited to come swim and play anytime.

Long-short: I caught him filming me once, swimming. Covertly. And after I caught him, he asked if I wanted to see what he had video'd. I was about 14 and watched the vid uncomfortably for about 5 minutes, me in one chair wrapped in a towel and him in another chair in his short shorts while the other kids played outside... I beat feet outta there pretty quick, not sure what to make of the whole thing. A few weeks later it was out of my mind, and life went on, swimming, playing, etc... About a year after that, I was baby-sitting for them fairly regularly. When they came home, he always walked me home. It was usually pretty late, and my mom was relieved that I'd be walked home......

One night, after sitting for them, I went into my house, into my room, and pulled the shade down. It was summer, so I had the window open and the shade (in my ground level room) up about 2 inches. As I started to get changed into my night shirt, I heard a rustly noise... didn't think much of it. Then, fully, heard grunting etc, and squatted down to see his FACE IN THE WINDOW, him bent down and peering in, masturbating.

I looked him in the eye and told to get the f__ out of there, and he bolted. The nextday I told my folks... Dad didn't believe me. Mom didn't believe me. (They were friends with these people, partied with them, and didn't want to risk harming the relationship... I was a 'bad' teen in their eyes and prone to exaggeration, so they refused to take my word for it... I moved out 2 years later) Things were status quo, except that he would barely make eye-contact with me, his wife didn't talk to me, I stopped sitting for them, and I had the creepy willies for the next few years anytime I saw him...

3 years later, he was charged with 2 counts of molestation, and multiple counts of child-porn (like 20) and went to prison.

They were so nice. My parents were friends with them and wanted to maintain that friendship. He was a criminal. He didn't look like one. It took him years to ramp up to actually violating children. It started innaucuously enough. But the signs were there... we kids weren't savvy enough to know, tho, and when one's parents won't take their children's word at face value... what could be done?

How do _your_ kids see this behavior? Have you probed them about their observations, their feelings? I agree with a pp who recommended talking with them to reinforce what is appropriate and what is not... Your instincts are up because something is amiss... it's not black and white, it's not a clear-cut case that you can put your finger on and say beyond a shadow of a doubt that this guy is gonna be a sex offender... I understand. But your instincts are up. That ought to be enough for you to know that it's ok to take action, even if it's just talking to your girls, and to the wife.

I don't wanna be that chick on the thread who advocates totally over-reacting and throws a big scary scenario at you... I just had the unfortunate experience to share. Like I said before... if you have the assurance that he is just a fashion victim or a cave-man, then just talking to them should be enough to get him to alter his mode of dress around the kids...

Good luck!


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
Loving the ads at the bottom of this thread.

The guy sounds harmless to me, and though I'm sure we'd laugh abiout him, it would not cross my mind to keep my kids away from him and his house. DP walks around in short shorts and our friends tease him about it, they don't find him (or us) scary or dangerous for it.

I really think you should just let it go. You said yourself you don't feel like the guy is a threat, so it doesn't seem worth wrecking your friendship and the kids' good times.

I don't think he is a threat but i certainly don't want my children seeing it. we are pretty modest people.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
How do _your_ kids see this behavior? Have you probed them about their observations, their feelings? I agree with a pp who recommended talking with them to reinforce what is appropriate and what is not... Your instincts are up because something is amiss... it's not black and white, it's not a clear-cut case that you can put your finger on and say beyond a shadow of a doubt that this guy is gonna be a sex offender... I understand. But your instincts are up. That ought to be enough for you to know that it's ok to take action, even if it's just talking to your girls, and to the wife.

Thank you for sharing your story.

I have talked to my girls. the oldest thinks it is gross, the other two just think all dads are weird and wear weird clothes. fortunately my husbands weird fashion statement is polyester pseudo western shirts and black socks with his shorts (this must be genetic). This did spur a discussion about how it is not cool for men to show their privates to anyone and of course it it is not ok for anyone to ask to see theirs. we talked about how their friends dads are respectful and extra careful about not running around in their boxers while company is over. i also talked to them about how they felt is they saw their friends mom in her underwear because we are all girls etc. . . So if nothing else this whole mess has encouraged me to get moving and think about these things and talk them over with the girls.

I am still not comfortable with them being over their unsupervised. I think there is more about these people that bug me that I have been suppressing in the name of neighborliness. And over looking the very real creepy weirdness in light of the abundance just generic weirdness.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

So, a couple positives, then... you're taking this as an opportunity to cultivate caution in your girls. And you're taking a second look at the neighbors and their behavior, in a new light. The worst case scenario _there_ is that you don't end up being close friends with them, and their children can only play at your place (while supervised... rememeber that their children may have some appropriateness issues as a result of the things they are being exposed to...). Better that than finding out years later that something truly dastardly was going on under your nose, right?

My parents btw, never commented on the offender's incarceration, nor acknowledged that I had ever said anything...

I asked mom about it today... she didn't even remember and apologized.


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

Sorry, but the guys who make sure they are falling out of their gear (or their gear is falling out) are pedophiles.

I had a very unsupervised childhood, and ran into these guys regularly. It is just a matter of time before they work up the courage to do something.

There is NO way the guy is unaware of his behaviour being inappropriate.

I'd be suspicious. My DH would be practically apoplectic.

One thing I can guarantee you - I am FAR from being modest.

I see no reason why you cannot confront him yourself about his inappropriate attire for playing with neighbourhood children. Afterall, he takes everyone's silence for ascent anyways, so you are already saying something by saying nothing.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
I don't think he is a threat but i certainly don't want my children seeing it. we are pretty modest people.

Oh. We're not.


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman* 
I hate to be the one to break this to you but that guy was a pedophile. He was a flasher and they do this to groom the children to become more comfortable with sexual behavior before they actually touch them. Sad but true, exhibitionists don't cross the line between kids and adults, it stays with legal people only. Child molesters are the ones that make sure the kiddos can see their package.

ITA. If this guy was making sure kids were seeing his package he was a pedophile.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hippymomma69* 
I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the guy is a pedophile. I mean maybe, but not necessarily.

*We have a neighborhood "naked guy" - always, always has his shirt off. He's a personal trainer and I assume that he is advertising his product (big pecs!) We all make jokes about it.

My DH sometimes goes outside in his undies (which I always make fun of) to get the mail or whatever. He says "what, they look like shorts!" Uh, no*.

Sometimes I think this behavior is just a guy thing - they all think they are adonises no matter how hairy or love-handled they are! LOL


The behavior I bolded above is typical guy behavior and is not in the same category of the guy who makes sure kids see his package - or IMO a guy who regularly is outside around kids with his goods exposed.

OP - I am not sure this guy sounds harmless - if you feel anything off in your gut trust it.


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
How do _your_ kids see this behavior?

I just want to note--kids are also prone to denial and the "Oh, everything's fine" approach, until something happens (sometimes even afterwards), and that something is what you want to prevent in the first place. Sometimes a kid might realize something is off, but I don't think parents should _wait_ until their kids have a problem when the parents are already on alert. I'm sure that's not what you meant PrennaMama but I just wanted to toss that in









I think the first priority is to make sure that your kids are never at his house and never alone with him and spend as little time around him as possible. As far as seeing him in his inappropriate clothes, you might consult the police about it, but that in itself is not so bad (though yucky). The important thing is to be smart about what it might say about him.

Basically I think you are safe and lucky--you spotted a potential problem and now you can take preventative action.


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## RachelGS (Sep 29, 2002)

No way. Being nearly naked around other people's children is not okay. Nobody ever thinks a neighbor is a pedophile, but where do you think most pedophiles live?

This is not okay.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I talked over with a friend today and she reminded me that I had never really liked these people anyway and have only recently become friends because after a long battle with infertility and loss she has a new baby and who doesn't get caught up in that kind of joy? She also gave me tips for avoiding your boundriless neighbors that you used to be good friends with. We decided they were probably just nudists with a really filthy house but better to be safe than sorry. because you never do know. and I am not really all that concerned any more if it does offend them. I am offended dang it! Who prances around like that in front of a 10 year old girl!! When i was 10 I would have been mortified! And he was on the slip and slide with them in this thing. GROSS! Even if was covered when he started things could have slipped and slided by the end of the run! the more I think about the madder i get. he should know this is inappropriate. if he wanted to ride the slip and slide mostly naked he could have just sent them home. I am really starting to get past the shock of such bad taste and just be mad that he would be so disrespectful to my girls and I as to walk around so exposed. Even if he is harmless, he is rude. If he can't respect that fact that people don't want to see that what else is he not going to respect?


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

That's right! You _ought_ to be mad... sing it sister.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

I am still not comfortable with them being over their unsupervised.
Don't let them go over. Everything you've posted (inappropriate dress, practically exposing himself, you don't know the parents well, haven't even been in their house) screams "*What a bad place for the kids to hang out!*"

Also, I want to highly recommend reading the book Protecting the Gift by Gavin DeBecker if you haven't already. Or re-reading it. I'm planning to.


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
I need some help.

I just cannot trust him to use good judgment around my girls. J can still play over here and they can play in the front yard if i am with them (that way we can bail if he shows up in the see through stretch shorts). easy enough.


WAIT! Hold on... is J your son? if so, if you feel your daughters are at risk, so could your son be at risk. I would not let them all go over there.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

J is their son. I can't do anything about him playing over at their house. he is very sweet boy and very gentle and kind. I don't mind him playing over here at all (although he has been over here constantly for the last few weeks and it is about to drive me crazy.)


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## riversong (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
Also, I want to highly recommend reading the book Protecting the Gift by Gavin DeBecker if you haven't already. Or re-reading it. I'm planning to.

I agree. This is a great book.

This neighbor sounds disgusting. Go with your gut and keep your kids away from him. It's so much better to be safe than sorry.


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## BinahYeteirah (Oct 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
Also, I want to highly recommend reading the book Protecting the Gift by Gavin DeBecker if you haven't already. Or re-reading it. I'm planning to.

Yep, that's what I was going to say! From your first posts, you mentioned that he/they are _weird_. If it feels weird, it probably is weird. Stay away and keep your kids away!


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## brogansmomma (Jan 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
I am offended dang it! Who prances around like that in front of a 10 year old girl!! When i was 10 I would have been mortified! And he was on the slip and slide with them in this thing. GROSS! Even if was covered when he started things could have slipped and slided by the end of the run! the more I think about the madder i get. *he should know this is inappropriate.* if he wanted to ride the slip and slide mostly naked he could have just sent them home.

But he DOES know it's inappropriate. He doesn't care. He enjoys what he's doing. Red flags are waving ALL over. I'm not saying that he's molested children but I wouldn't be waiting to find out. His interests and inappropriate behaviours are not acceptable. My son would have zero contact with him and I'd be one step away from making the police aware. Not that they can run right over and charge him (he hasn't committed a crime) but at least my complaint would be on file or I'd get some advice and direction.


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## Novella (Nov 8, 2006)

I almost don't even know where to begin - not only to some of the posts by Lilyka, but many of the responses in this thread. Yes, a man wearing an immodest bathing suit is certainly "disgusting", "inappropriate", fairly certainly a pedophile, and someone you would enlist the help of the police to deal with.







: Give me a break!

Lilyka, although the title of your thread was pithy, it's a bit of a misnomer. Way down in your post #11, I saw that you consider your neighbour's swimwear quite a bit worse than the "regular" speedos you see at the pool. (Your issue is that your neighbour is wearing a woman's string bikini bottom). There's a real double-standard regarding mens' and womens' swimwear and your title only panders to it. As women, we are not expected to attend the local pool in saggy, soggy, baggy shorts that stick all over our legs when we get out of the water.

You've received a lot of advice from other posters about trusting your instincts. I agree. However, I give that advice with a _completely opposing thought_ on what your instincts are. It appears to me that on the whole, you don't think this is a dangerous situation, in spite it being behavior you wouldn't adopt yourself.
Comments you have made (direct quotes) include:

if my Victorian sensibilities are offended that is my business and my problem
it is not worth upsetting neighbors over.
I don't want to be imposing my standards on others
i like my neighbors. they are really sweet people. not always the most aware people but genuinely sweet and their little boy adores my children and they adore him.
All summer long the kids have been running back and forth between houses. Its exactly the way I wanter summers to be for my children. roaming around the neighborhood in packs but between the homes of people I have spent years forming a relationship with and can trust
I truly don't believe he is a perv and I think he treats his wife like a princess.
You certainly also made some comments like:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
I am still not comfortable with them being over their unsupervised. I think there is more about these people that bug me that I have been suppressing in the name of neighborliness. And over looking the very real creepy weirdness in light of the abundance just generic weirdness.

But as I read through this thread, it seemed to me that you were more likely to make this type of comment *after* some other poster admonished you that the neighbour is a quite likely a pervert out to get your family.

It's fine that things aren't black-and-white (they seldom are), _so trust your over-riding sentiment_. As long as you aren't over- or under-representing certain throughts of yours in this thread, just live with your scantily-clad neighbour. This situation has brought on a talk with your daughters about what they think. Maybe it could also be a launching point for a family discussion about being tolerant of others.

A bit of an aside, but when I read:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
In our neighborhood, meth houses are on the verge of blowing up, drug deals are being done in our yards, we are surrounded by pedophiles, gangsters, prostitutes and the majority of my kids little friends have a parent in the penn. and then there are the people across the street who live in a tent in their front yard all summer while blasting country music (we are not sure weather to be amused or disturbed by this). a middle aged, balding, over weight, norweigen mowing his lawn in a speedo is just funny as heck and really low on my list of complaints.

I was pretty surprised you would even care what your neighbour is wearing.

I think a lot of the posters on this thread are forgetting the tolerance that so often prevails throughout the MDC community. Many of the arguments about the "indecency" of it all sound a lot like criticisms that some folks make about breastfeeding in public (and we've all seen how roundly *that* attitude is criticized in this online community). And the general attitude that this man's Norwegian/French Riviera, etc sensibilities don't work "here in American suburbia" sounds a lot like when some CPS caseworker is all over some poor family's attachment parenting and alternative lifestyle.

People, if we want to "talk the talk" about lifestyle choices, we have to "walk the walk".

Bring on the flames!







:


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

In addition to keeping the kids away, I think you or your husband needs to directly tell the neighbors that you find the lack of clothing to be inappropriate and that he is to leave your kids alone. It is important for him to know that his behavior isn't appropriate, that you've noted it and that you've set a limit.


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## Zadee (Oct 20, 2006)

I teach (well, taught) at a Catholic school at we were all required to take a course on recognizing inappropriate behavior around children. We had to watch a video that included interviews with sexual perps who talked about how they groomed children for victimization. They would take YEARS to prep some kids.

Frankly, this behavior sounds like grooming behavior. He may just have a total lack of judgement, but he may be quietly getting the kids used to sexual organs. From viewing perps move to touch. I would be very careful.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

ManitobaMom - i agree with your point. I have really tried being tolerant. and it was pretty funny until I saw him standing there in all his glory right in front of my children. then it was more than a neighborhood weirdness. It was an ofense against my family. but then i kept thinking if this was a woman I would not feel the same way. So it feels wrong to judge him based on this. However - I would not feel comfortable with my sons (or dds) hanging around a scantily clad woman wearing swim wear that shows privates (most of my friends and I wear cover ups even in the water. we are a pretty modest crowd. aand even close friends , if they choose to dres immodestly, are friends we do something other than go to the pool with) . I wouldn't mind her children plaing at my house though. i wouldn't think they were evil. but I would think they care more about showing off their bodies than other people comfort levels. and that bothers me. it is inconsiderate. I also wouldn't trust them to erspect our standards etc or normal standards, while we were over at their house. Simple solutions. my kids can't play over there. but how do you explain that to someone who you have no intention of offending. which was the point of my original post. nice people but there is no way my children will be playing over there if i can't trust him to keep everything appropriately covered. The fact is though that i was never really close to these people and after 6 years my kids have only recently started playing over at their house and only in the last two weeks have they been in their back yard. So the issue of him being nearly naked and me being unaware has only just cropped up. I also have a tendency to let things slide. I am a terrible judge of character (we have rental property. this has been proven over and over again







). I am kinda niave. always assume the best in people, passing off truely icky behavior as quirky and weird and try to deal with avoiding it if it bothers me (honestly it never crossed my mind he might be a pervert until someone here said it. and yet I have never ever met anyone who would think this was appropriate clothing to wear in public). and this wanting to believe the best has bitten me in the butt before. So the moer i tink about it there is more warning signs that this may be a good relationship to exercise great caution with. and it was a conversation with a reallife friend who actually knows these people that reminded me that I never really liked these people and have spent a good deal of time complaining about them and avoiding them (perhaps one of the reasons kids are just now starting to really play together) and she knows first hand how weird they are. I have just been blinded by my desire to please everyone and be everyones friend. but really I need to worry more about protecting my children than pleaseing people who can't have the decencyt to put on clothes when my children are over.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

an the name is from an episode of News Radio. its what i always think about when I see him in his suit. aahhhh . . . that was a great show . . ..


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

*ManitobaMom*: (I love Manitoba...) I won't flame you, girl... Just wanted to point out that sometimes our own instincts/sentiments are skewed... through whatever our paradigms or experiences are. So, Lilyka, knowing her radar was up, but not sure how to proceed, popped in to MDC for consultation, like so many of us do. And her mind was piqued in a different direction.

Her initial sentiment may not have been sound, and she has the personal strength of character to be able to ask the tough questions, publically, of _herself_; "Am I handling this right? Could I handle it better, or differnetly? Should I?"

It's ok for one to change one's mind.

This isn't a discussion about tolerance (I am huge and mouthy advocate of tolerance on these boards...); but rather about discernment. What this man's intentions are needs to be discerned. If he's a well-meaning airhead then he can be clued in to the fact that wearing a woman's string bikini in front of someone else's children is not ok, and he may make the choice to edify his own behavior. If he's not, then steps will need to be taken to protect the children from 'exposure'... literally.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

I have been lurking on this thread and just wondering whether you talked to them or not.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I haven't seen them since i wrote this. My thoughts are that she may klnow i saw him out there with the kids like that and be embarressed that he used such poor judgment. I even babysat for them the other day and she just sent him over and then when she picked him up was in out so quick I hardly caught sight of her. which was weird. she is a sitter and a talker.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
He'd wear baggy bermuda shorts with no underwear. *When just the kids were around he'd sit down and make sure to have his pant leg pulled up so that his genitalia was visible*.

My bolding...
Manitoba mom, the response I wrote what I did was specifically towards this statement. This man, beyond any suspicion, is a pedophile. He is specifically flashing his genitalia at kids, that is a sex offense.
I still disagree with the concept that wearing a speedo in front of kids is OK, but I disagree with speedos in general, I think they are gross, just as I think g-string and thong bikini bottoms on women are gross too. However I do recognize that "gross" is subjective and varies by culture. Whether lilyka's neighbor is a pedophile or simply a poor dresser is beyond my knowledge. But I did want to point out that some people flash people inadvertently, and other people, like the man stated above, do it as part of their sexually deviant behavior, and to me there is a huge difference.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
I haven't seen them since i wrote this. My thoughts are that she may klnow i saw him out there with the kids like that and be embarressed that he used such poor judgment. I even babysat for them the other day and she just sent him over and then when she picked him up was in out so quick I hardly caught sight of her. which was weird. she is a sitter and a talker.

Maybe she's an MDC member and recognized her husband in this thread?


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman* 
I still disagree with the concept that wearing a speedo in front of kids is OK, but I disagree with speedos in general, I think they are gross, just as I think g-string and thong bikini bottoms on women are gross too.

Regardless of whether wearing a speedo in front of kids is okay, the man that the OP is talking about is actually wearing a woman's bikini bottom that is mostly white and has faded over time and is too small for him, if I understand correctly. So we're not even talking about speedos.

The responsible thing to do is to keep an eye out for pedophilia warning signs, and when you see them, make wise choices that protect your kids. We're not talking about throwing the guy in jail here. Innocent until proven guilty is appropriate in the justice system, but not in parenting, where once someone is proven guilty it's too late for prevention.

There's no way to be 100% sure if someone is or isn't a pedophile. But you can still take responsible action.


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

IMO it is never appropriate to wear clothes which might reveal genitalia in public, or the neighbor's backyard, and especially not in front of other people's children (unless you are at a specifically nudist place, or something like that). It isn't bad fashion sense, it isn't just cluelessness. It is totally and completely inappropiate and anyone who wore clothes which revealed genitalia to my children I would highly suspect of being perverted in other ways and we would make darn sure to keep our distance.

The fact that people talk about "speedo sightings" means that this man most likely IS an exhibitionist and "gets off" on the attention. He MUST know people are talking about him and his "speedo" NO ONE is that clueless about fashion. Especially since men wearing women's bikini bottoms isn't exactly the fashion trend of the day..ya know. I can see "clueless" people revealing more than they mean to on accident if they are just following a fashion trend (ie, super, super short skirts or hip hugging pants that reveal a butt crack when you bend over)...but someone who goes out of their way to wear something so outside of "normal" that is "very revealing" is an exhibitionist and someone I would be very suspicious of.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ameliabedelia* 
IMO it is never appropriate to wear clothes which might reveal genitalia in public, or the neighbor's backyard, and especially not in front of other people's children (unless you are at a specifically nudist place, or something like that). It isn't bad fashion sense, it isn't just cluelessness. It is totally and completely inappropiate and anyone who wore clothes which revealed genitalia to my children I would highly suspect of being perverted in other ways and we would make darn sure to keep our distance.

The fact that people talk about "speedo sightings" means that this man most likely IS an exhibitionist and "gets off" on the attention. He MUST know people are talking about him and his "speedo" NO ONE is that clueless about fashion. Especially since men wearing women's bikini bottoms isn't exactly the fashion trend of the day..ya know. I can see "clueless" people revealing more than they mean to on accident if they are just following a fashion trend (ie, super, super short skirts or hip hugging pants that reveal a butt crack when you bend over)...but someone who goes out of their way to wear something so outside of "normal" that is "very revealing" is an exhibitionist and someone I would be very suspicious of.

I second that. Especially after someone mentioned the slip-and-slide, an activity geared ESPECIALLY for children, nott grown men. Someone is not right.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Abi's Mom* 
Maybe she's an MDC member and recognized her husband in this thread?










that is exactly what I thought.


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## magster (May 4, 2004)

Well, just wanted to say that I am in Brazil and wearing that kind of attire around kids in the neighborhood would land you in jail pretty fast.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magster* 
Well, just wanted to say that I am in Brazil and wearing that kind of attire around kids in the neighborhood would land you in jail pretty fast.

See? Perfect!


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## DandeCobb (Jul 20, 2006)

OP, your story made me feel itchy inside. go with your gut, its not usually wrong! keep your kids away.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I found out my four year old told them "my mom says we can't play at your house any more". that could be it.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
I found out my four year old told them "my mom says we can't play at your house any more". that could be it.









:

Outta the mouths of babes... guess you didn't know your _kidsI] talking to them on your behalf was an option.







_


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I told them not to say anything because it would hurt Js feelings. My 10 year old lacks tack in a large way (sheh as social issues). at least Ava was nice enough to give me the heads up


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