# Pressure on kids to be "cool" conflicting with parenting values



## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

We are relatively strict parents and limit a lot of things that kids tend to brag about to each other. For instance, DD does not have a video game system, an iPod, a TV in her room, an Ipad, handheld gaming system, etc. She does not watch TV really at all (a few movies). She does not eat many treats or get junk in her lunch. Her allowance is small and she goes to bed early (by necessity--she wakes up super early no matter what and shr really needs her sleep). We also live on a pretty strict budget and don't "splash out" on "stuff" or trips or parties.

It has come to my attention recently that this leaves DD with nothing to "brag" about with other kids. This hasn't been a huge deal before because we run with similar people and DD's former school had similar demographics, but she is transferring to a more mainstream school, and these issues did come up this summer at camp.

I am pretty darn committed to these values, but I do find myself feeling some sympathy with DD when she talks about how other kids show off their iPads, brag about how they get to stay up late and watch whatever they want, go to Disneyworld all the time, etc. It's not that I have any plans to change our life so that we are like this, but I do realize this puts her out in the cold a little. She feels somewhat excluded and "odd" in some kid circles.

Thoughts? Can anyone empathize? I am trying to think of a few ways we can bend so she has some "kid currency," but am not sure what. We do have a Wii, but all we have on it is WiiFit (which she likes, but I doubt it's "cool" material). I am pretty laissez-faire on clothes and appearance, but her new school has a uniform, so that's kind of out. I was thinking of letting her dye her hair some weird color, something she has occasionally brought up. Or maybe she's ready to pierce her ears, which she's also asked to do (I hesitate only because I'm not sure she's ready to take care of pierced ears yet).

I guess some part of me is trying to come up with something she can say when the other kids are going "My mom and dad let me..."







I know that's a little silly!


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Wow, those are some spoiled 7 year olds! An Ipad? Really? That is insane for a kid that age. Those things are $300+ for refurbished ones! I want one for myself , but refuse to afford it. I cannot imagine giving one to a 7-10 year old.

I dont think its cool to brag or encourage bragging, but I can see (as I grew up as the poor kid on the block) that it makes a kid feel really left out when other kids have/do stuff that your DD doesnt have or cant do. I would probably bend and get another Wii game (I mean if you already have the system....), let her get her ears pierced if she wants, maybe get her an mp3 player so she can listen to music and audiobooks?
For me, it was always little things like how all my friends saw a movie in the theater and I had to wait until it came out on video. Id probably make sure she got to see a movie in the theater on Sunday matinee (and we'd bring in our healthy snacks undercover).


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Yeah, I thought the iPad was a bit nuts! This was at camp, which was 7-13, so it was probably an older kid, but still.

Anyway, yeah, you hear me. I don't want her to feel like the poor relation or the kids whose parents are zero fun.

Maybe I need to think of ways to be more...safely zany or something. Fun surprises. Harmless goofiness. Occasional nutty rule-breaking. Like...what...having ice cream sundaes for dinner? Maybe something like that?

I would love it if other parents with similar beliefs/values would sorta brainstorm with me.


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

Well my dd is your dd's age (well, slightly younger but same grade age) and she doesn't even have a Wii. I am totally on the same page as you. She does have some friends who have their own handheld gaming thingies, but I don't know of any classmates with iPads (!). I think a lot (most) kids in her class probably watch a lot more tv than her, and she is sometimes left in the cold with certain movie references (mostly things that she chooses not to watch because she feels they would be too scary for her).

I'm up for brainstorming ideas with you, but am feeling pretty brain dead at the moment. I'll be watching this thread for ideas though, as I sometimes worry about the same sorts of things in regards to my dd. Like you I'm not about to go out and buy her every extravagant gadget or do away with bedtime, but I don't want her growing up feeling like an outsider/weirdo or something.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Well you could get a regular iPod, and not an iPod touch. Some iPods don't have games on them, in which case it's just for music and audio books. It's basically like a Walkman was when we were kids. You're trying to avoid screen time it sounds like, so that kind of an iPod would seem to potentially fit into where you are?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Oh I'll add where we are. No way would I spend as much as an iPad costs on a kid. My dd does have use of a computer sometimes, we have a wii we got as a gift and a few games but it doesn't get used much, we have a very old DS that I had for myself on a long trip that has ended up being used by dd but also doesn't get used much, and she does watch some TV but has little interest. IMO there's room for moderation, but YMMV.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

An IPod still seems like an expensive and delicate thing to give a 7yo, to me (arent they at least $100?). She isn't a careful kid and tends towards spacey...she would be pretty likely to step on it, lose it, etc. If I thought she really desperately wanted one it might be different, but she isn't even into pop music (well, uh, we don't listen to the radio, either, except NPR). Mainly she just likes the idea of having a cool "device."

She is allowed to use the computer, but her time is limited and it's definitely our computer, not hers.


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## HopefullyMama (Aug 17, 2010)

Hi Guys! Sorry to thread crash, but I thought you might be interested in reading "Bringing up Geeks" by Marybeth Hicks. It's basically the EXACT issue you're having, and her take on it (which, to summarize, is that "geeks", or the "uncool kids with uncool parents" are actually better off for it).

Hope that helps! I don't agree with EVERYTHING written in the book; she seems a bit inflexible on most things. But it's definitely an interesting read, and one that I'm glad I read.


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## smilingsara (Feb 9, 2010)

loraxc: sometimes it fun to let the kids pick the meal. We did backwords day one time and had dinner stuff and ice cream in the morning, then like tacos or something for lunch and breakfast for dinner. We all wore our clothes backwords, 'yes' was 'no' and 'no' was 'yes'. It was super silly and we all talked about it for weeks and weeks.

Maybe let her stay up late one night and have a 'dance party'. Put on some favorite music and dance your pants off!

Go exploring somewhere new. Go check out a new town, go hike somewhere different, learn about a new country (cook some food native to their land, learn to speak some of their language, watch a cartoon from there).

We also really like to build stuff. Maybe a catapult would be fun to build (for outside play if you like). Do some tie-dye. Sew something.

Start a fund for a special trip. Put all of your loose pocket change in a jar and ask DD if she'd like to do some chores she doesn't normally do to earn some money for the jar. Then when you have enough money go to an amusement park or out to a movie or for dinner or whatever she wants. Right now we're saving for horseback riding and for Hawaii!


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## sewingmommy (Apr 21, 2007)

I got my 8 year old an ipod shuffle ...was 46 at target and he has to give it to me when he isn't using it because he would lose it in a heartbeat ...you could also look on apples site at refurbished ipods


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Just some perspective as I think it is common to see only glimpses of peoples' lives: my firm gave each of us of an I-Pad for a holiday gift last year. DD plays with it more than any of us, and sometimes I'll take it on the subway with us as she likes to practice 'typing' and stuff. While appearances may suggest that she's a 4.5 year old toting I-Padder, the reality is is that it is a family device and we try to use it to our advantage. An expensive toy? Yes. But it has also come in very handy.

I guess overall, though, we're not hugely materialistic and we're surrounded by folks who spend a lot on electronics and whatnot. I think the thing that has worked for us so far (although I'm sure it is going to be much tougher when DD is a teenager) is the fine art of distraction. DH and I are exhausted most of the time with this method but finding creative, fun things to do with DD has helped us with these various hurdles. One thing I do spend a lot of money on are art supplies, tools, musical instruments, stuff that one must use with one's hands. One could say that these sort of things would add up to the expense of an I-Pad. Figure in the cost of musical instruments, on-going art supplies, etc. and essentially I've bought several I-Pads over the years. I guess it is all about where you set your priorities. DD seems satisfied with that so far, and it is helpful to reinforce her successes in these areas.

We do allow DD appropriate computer time and honestly I would rather she explore on the computer than watch television or some other passive activity.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Thanks for the book rec, HopefullyMama!

smilingsara, I LOVE those suggestions. Man, I am so much less fun than I used to be. Old and tired, I guess.

I do sometimes try to do secret things with her that DS is too young for, or sorta too young for. Like, we woke her up late at night to watch fireworks and left him in bed. I keep meaning to do a big-kid movienight. I want to let her stay up as late as she wants on her birthday, too.

Catscradle, it isn't so much that she needs ways to be entertained. She's really good at entertaining herself with books, art materials, pretend play, games, ect (I of course like to think that this is because we so drastically limit screen time). It's really more the peer pressure/peer currency thing at school.


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## smilingsara (Feb 9, 2010)

loraxc, I was thinking some more! Do a 'spa day' with her. Paint your nails, do homemade facials, do your hair and then have a photo shoot!

Also, at Lowe's just about every other week they do kids workshops where you build stuff. You sign them up online and then just show up and follow the directions. Its free and a fun way to spend an hour (if the store is close to you). Is there a farmer's market you guys can do your shopping at?

How about going to a thrift store and letting her spend 5 dollars and pick out a new 'fun' outfit, anything she wants?!

We also LOVE to freezer paper things onto our plain shirts, pants, and even other clothing. We do it a bit differently than that site. We trace whatever we want off of the internet (or the kids free draw it). Then we trace that onto the freezer paper. Cut it out with your exacto knife, iron that onto the clothing and paint your fabric paint on. After it dries, peel the paper off, put the clothing in the dryer for about 15 minutes and its ready to wear! Here's an example:  I guarantee her clothes will be the coolest clothes on the block after that!

Scavenger hunts are fun too! If you decide to do the freezer paper thing or something, hide it in the house and give her clues that make her think to find it and then do the project!

That's all I've got for now. If I think of more, I'll report back!


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> Catscradle, it isn't so much that she needs ways to be entertained. She's really good at entertaining herself with books, art materials, pretend play, games, ect (I of course like to think that this is because we so drastically limit screen time). It's really more the peer pressure/peer currency thing at school.


No, I totally understand where you coming from, my own DD is just not an age where we've had to deal with that (although a lot of her preschooler friends have made trips to Disney World, and she expresses and interest but we quickly change the subject).

I can only speak from my experiences as a young adult/teen growing up in the 70s (for all the youngsters out there...this issue is not new...just different stuff and different technology). My parents were very upper middle class, but they were very strict with regard to acquisition of stuff. Maybe this would sound harsh to a lot of mainstreamers out there, but my mom and dad made it a rule that anything I wanted beyond necessities and holiday gifts was strictly my own responsibility. I got bitter every now and then, but it gave me a lot of drive. I became a penny pincher and found ways to earn money and saved the money I got as gifts. My initial goal was to keep up with the proverbial teen Jones...but once I had amassed a small fortune (for a teen), I had matured in a lot of ways and found that the stuff I had previously wanted was outdated or I had lost interest. There were definitely growing pains (the pain of feeling different or deprived or whatever). Although I disagree with a lot of parents' other parenting techniques, this one area was really good for me. Maybe I felt like a loser at the time but then again, I knew that I had to achieve certain goals to get where I wanted. In the end, I wanted something different. Funny how things work out!


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## tooraloora (Oct 15, 2010)

What about pets? Currently, we just have fish, but in the past, cool animal experiences have been pretty useful for DD as "kid currency." During this past school year, we rescued an abandoned litter of kittens. It was a great experience for her. She took some pictures to school with her and her friends thought it was pretty cool. She was excited about them long after they found homes. At a recent play date, the most exciting attraction in the house was not a gadget, but the girl's hamster. Fostering for the local shelter could be awesome if you're open to having animals.

Fun trips (even small ones) can also be brag-worthy. Think week end camping or hikes. Maybe putting in some volunteer time at a local wild life sanctuary.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

snilingsara--Yes, I was thinking some kind of spa day type of thing as well...well, or just letting her paint her fingernails, which I have also resisted. After some thought I am okay with that.

Love the freezer paper thing. We have fabric markers and I do let her draw on her jeans with them (wait, I AM fun!), but alas, she can't wear those to school. She is very artsy and artistic and has a unique sense of style.

Love your energy and ideas.








Quote:


> . My parents were very upper middle class, but they were very strict with regard to acquisition of stuff. Maybe this would sound harsh to a lot of mainstreamers out there, but my mom and dad made it a rule that anything I wanted beyond necessities and holiday gifts was strictly my own responsibility.


It's funny you mention this. I also grew up in an upper-middle class home where my parents did not buy me a lot of stuff and where I had to earn my own money for frivolities or go without. I think this was very good for me (and believe me, my parents made a lot of mistakes).


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Pets--she does have a pet fish, but that's not thrilling, really, although she was super psyched to get it. We also have a snake. Fostering is a neat idea, but we have a cat who hates other cats and we don't really do dogs. However, she loves animals, and this is a good one to think about. We have been considering getting chickens.

I also am wondering if we could cool-ify our back yard some more. Honestly, it is kinda cool already--she has her own garden, a tree fort, a trapeze, a swing...but we could up the ante, maybe. I would love to get a tire swing or a zip line...

In general, we are pro-mess and pro-chaos. That could count in our favor.







I wish I had room for a workshop area for her. Hmm..maybe teaching her to use hand tools and build stuff...she also wants to learn to cook, which we are working on...


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

One thing I wanted to add is that the kids whose parents always hosted playdates, slumber parties, and backyard watergun fights never needed currency. We all knew they were cool.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I'm going to ask you to question your premise: Does she need "stuff" to brag about?

Ds' best friend spent a year at a private school where the kids had a lot of money. One day when he was over, he started playing a 'game' with them that went something like "I've got X that you don't have." The kind of stuff that he was saying sounded a lot like what you're hearing from camp. "I've got an iPod and you don't." My kids, completely misunderstanding the game, came back with "I've got a stuffed penguin." "I've got 3 sharpies." The game petered out pretty quickly. Not all kids care. (Thankfully, ds' friend's parents moved him to a school that was a better fit for their family values.)

She was the youngest kid at a camp with really wide ages. (7-13 is too broad an age group, IMO.) Wait until next year. See what the school is like. She if she ASKS for stuff. As she enters 6th-8th grade, it probably is more important to fit in a bit more, but sometimes that's as simple as buying a few of the 'right' shirts. If she asks for stuff, help her save up her allowance, birthday money and/or earn extra money for chores. One of our good friends' child just got an iPod touch. She saved for 12 months to get it (and she's 10).


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

I was brought up without "cool stuff" too - a mixture of ideology and us being poor.  I didn't have fancy sneakers, virtual pets, Chatterings or any of that stuff (dating myself here!). It honestly never bugged me, as I wasn't into most of that stuff (I played with a friend's virtual pet a few times and didn't see the appeal). I did sometimes get jealous of my friends' packaged lunch treats, like chips, but... meh. Better for my health. Anyway, once I was old enough to cook I brought brownies and things, and everyone got jealous of those!

Back in my day, at least, the kids in my class were decent/cluey enough to quickly learn that I had "that" kind of family and would never have birthday parties at a theme park or a house full of awesome toys. I still had friends, and it made going over to their houses SO much cooler. 

If you really want to give your DD something to brag about, you can probably find some stuff that doesn't conflict with your values.

-A trip somewhere? "My dad took me kayaking" surely has pretty good brag potential?

-How about a special necklace or something? I inherited my grandmother's old locket when I was a kid, and it was pretty cool - had black and white photos of her and Grandpa inside. Could she be trusted with something like that? Or if you're short on heirlooms, maybe something with her birth stone?

-Yep, letting her dye her hair would probably do it! "My mom lets me do XYZ" is generally a pretty safe bet, right? Would her school dress code be a problem? I've heard Manic Panic is pretty good, if you want to go (semi-) natural.

-Along similar lines of rebellion and disfiguring the body God gave you (kidding!), what about a henna tattoo? Could be fun to do it together, and they only last for about six weeks - less if you scrub. She could even design and apply her own if it were on an easy-to-reach spot - my sister and I decorated our own lower legs once while watching episodes of Buffy. Of course, I didn't do it too well, and came out looking like I had a weird skin disease - but still!

-Could she be trusted with her own EFTPOS card? Even if she doesn't have any money to use it with, it's still kinda cool to have one. Well, it was back when I got mine "early", at 13. Maybe it's not any more. Ehhh, I was never very good at "cool" even when I was that age, don't listen to me!


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Henna tattoo!! That is a GREAT idea and I am totally up for it. I don't know how/where you get one, though. Gonna look into that.

We do do some cool outdoor stuff as a family--we camp, fish, boat, kayak, etc--but I'm not sure how much currency this gives with the kind of kids I am thinking of.









I do host playdates and slumber parties--maybe not as much as I could.
Quote:


> She was the youngest kid at a camp with really wide ages. (7-13 is too broad an age group, IMO.) Wait until next year. See what the school is like.


Right--I will wait and see about a lot of this. But I'm noticing we're getting out of step even with our friends who are pretty similar.


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

I can definitely identify. My 8 year old DD is starting to feel that pressure. She wants a DS so much, just to feel like she fits in and has something cool, that I'm leaning toward getting her one. As far as other things that might be seen as "cool," I agree that pets are good. Skills or talents are also good. My DD is not a bragger or show-off at all, but I know she gets some satisfaction from being better at drawing than just about any kid she knows, from being better at ice skating than most of the other kids when we go to homeschool skating time, and from being reasonably good at swimming and skiing. (Though she's always more likely to think about the people who are better than her than the people who aren't. She doesn't feel as good about her skiing as she could because she has a friend her age who can ski even better.) A couple of things I'm thinking about for DD are horseback riding lessons and archery. I know both of those things seem cool to her, and probably some other kids would agree. I've also thought about setting up a slackline somewhere on our property. My DD isn't very interested in learning to use matches or make a fire, but if yours is (and if she's responsible enough), that seems like it could be a cool thing to teach her. You could show her how to do it with a magnifying glass as well as with sticks and paper and matches. You could also start teaching her how to drive. Show her how to start the car, and let her sit on your lap and steer somewhere like an empty parking lot. (I actually want to do this with my kids.)


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## swd12422 (Nov 9, 2007)

She can't wear the decorated jeans, but could she wear a head band or socks that she decorated the same way to school, or are accessories a no-no too?

I think you've gotten a lot of ideas here. I just want to say that I was raised similarly. My parents probably had more money than most of my friends' parents, but I didn't have "stuff" like they did. No car at 16, no Walkman, etc. What I did finally have that was cool was a job at 16 that wasn't fast food! I was the only one of my friends who worked during the school year (most worked fast food summers or not at all) and I worked at The Limited. Everyone thought that was the best. Weird.

Before that, I just kept my mouth shut and when someone asked me about a movie or whatever I'd say my parents didn't let me see it. No biggie. I felt left out when I didn't get the references or had nothing to contribute, but my friends were my friends and they didn't care if I knew about that stuff or not. Sometimes they'd share their teen mags with me so I'd have some clue, but even then I just didn't care much. I still pretty much live under a rock. They did lots of "fun" things without me (like going to concerts, movies, etc) but I usually didn't even know about it.

The best memories I have are not about stuff -- sleepovers at friends' houses and things like that are. One friend's mom always helped us make monkey bread. Another made pizza for breakfast. Another always moved a TV into the bedroom and we'd watch cartoons all morning so everyone else could sleep in, then we'd have pancakes. It doesn't have to be material, tangible objects to be special.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

My kids are 13 and 14 so I've BTDT, but only with one of them. One of my kids is on the autism spectrum so she never felt any of this. Because of seeing that, I think I had a little different attitude. This is really normal, its a sign that a child is developing normally socially.

For me, it boiled down to two things:

1. where can I let go?

2. how do I talk to DD about the the things where I can't/wont let go?

At age 7 and on the things you listed, I would lighten up about nail polish, ear piercing, and Wii games. Nail polish comes back off, it's no big deal. And there are so many fun things to do with it -- decals, stripes, dots, etc. For one mom and DD we know, it became a little bonding hobby for them. Every Sunday night they would do completely wild things to their nails together. You could help your DD take care of the earrings. There's no real reason to make her wait until she is old enough to be completely responsible. It sounds like something that would make her happy. You guys already have a Wii, adding a couple of FUN and COOL games. I kinda think owning a Wii but refusing to buy games she likes is mean. If kids come over to the house, she has to explain that. There's no good answer for her but "My mom and dad won't let me." Mario Cart was some of the best entertainment money we've spent -- my kids have played with it for years, my DH's friends have played with it, other kids think it's cool. You might be able to pick up some used games, or wait until her B-day or X-mas, but this is an area where I think you could lighten up.

As far as talking about the things that I either couldn't/wouldn't budge, I pointed out that what it seems like "everyone is doing" isn't really. For example, the Disney thing. (I'm going to make up numbers here) Let's say your DD circle of kids includes 70 peers (between school, camp, the neighborhood, and an activity or two like gymnastics, that seems reasonable to me). Imagine that in that LARGE group including people she barely knows, an average of 3 go to Disney each year. So 3 went to Disney this year, and 3 went last year, and 1 already knows she's going next year. Then you add in one kid who has a photo of herself as a toddler at Disney, one kid who is so hung up on fitting that they lie and say they go every year, and your DD is left feeling like "everybody goes to Disney ALL the time." When really, only 3 kids went this year. Helping DD see the reality rather than getting hung up on whose talking loudest helped.

Also, *teaching conversation skills helps.* I think part of the problem is that kids end up in these conversations where they want to add what they do/have so they can be part of the flow, instead of realizing that there are other things to say. They can ASK and be INTERESTED in the other child's vacation. Help her go over the conversations where these things are coming up and help her brain storm other things to say that reflect being interested in the other person. People like that. It's a way to be *popular.* In the long term, having friends is more about making conversation than owning things.

Also, we are fortunate financially that if there is something that DD really wants, that eventually we could make it happen. The questions become why do you want it and what is a reasonable age for it? I couldn't get enthused about buying something just to be cool, just because everyone else has one. That seems silly to me. On the other hand, if it would be really FUN for her, I'm much more open.

I've also required the kids be old enough to be reasonably responsible with stuff. They were 10 and 11 when they got iPods, and they got iHomes at the same time so they could always have a place to be put away. And they couldn't leave the house. They still have those iPods. (If we had a 7 year old, we might let her have one as a hand-me-down and upgrade the oldest child to an iPod touch).

BTW -- your backyard sounds AMAZING


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## MJB (Nov 28, 2009)

My 8.5 year old has an iPod nano. It was his birthday gift from me when he turned 7 and he loves it. It does give him some cool points, but more importantly, it means my guys know and love all kinds of music, not just Justin Bieber or whatever. We also have a Wii and lots of games, but we limit screen time to 30-45 minutes a day, max. They have Pokemon cards and silly bands, which are cheap, don't take up much room or time, and give them social currency. I think it's pretty easy to give in just a little and let them fit in with their friends.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smilingsara*
> 
> loraxc: sometimes it fun to let the kids pick the meal. We did backwords day one time and had dinner stuff and ice cream in the morning, then like tacos or something for lunch and breakfast for dinner. We all wore our clothes backwords, 'yes' was 'no' and 'no' was 'yes'. It was super silly and we all talked about it for weeks and weeks.
> 
> ...


As fun as all of that sounds? None of it is going to be considered "cool" by her peers. Maybe saving for Hawaii.

I would talk to kiddo and find out first if this bothers HER. And if it does, is there one thing that she feels would make it better.


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## nursingmommaof2 (Jul 2, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtiger*
> 
> As fun as all of that sounds? None of it is going to be considered "cool" by her peers. Maybe saving for Hawaii.
> 
> I would talk to kiddo and find out first if this bothers HER. And if it does, is there one thing that she feels would make it better.


Yeah, paint on her jeans is not going to make her the coolest kid on the block. I seriously question if any of you remember what it was like to be teased and taunted for continuously not having the right clothes or tech or newest toy. Times are different, and just because in your 30s or 40s you can look back at your school life and say that never having anything new never bothered you does not mean that it will not bother the OPs daughter right now as she is living it. I was one of those kids who never had anything new because of rigid ideals held by my parents, and I don't remember wonderful values being passed down, I remember being left out as all the other kids talked about what toys they had or what tv show was on last night or the movie they saw on the weekend.

Ask your dd what she wants, after all, she is living this. Think about holding to your values vs the day to day left out-ness that your dd has to experience. There is something to be said for the culture of shared experiences. Don't inadvertently isolate her by trying to do what is best.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

To clarify a little--this doesn't seem to be a huge deal with DD yet, but it is on her radar. I have heard her complain about bedtimes, about ear piercing/nail polish (I have issues with girls being sexualized too soon, which is why I don't like polish, but I guess silly colors on her toes will work for me), about her lunch not being cool and so nobody wants to trade with her, and about not having an electronic device/iPod. None of these things seem to cause her major trauma (and she is a drama queen, so trust me, I would know), but she's aware of it.
Quote:


> ou guys already have a Wii, adding a couple of FUN and COOL games. I kinda think owning a Wii but refusing to buy games she likes is mean.


Uh, whoa! She doesn't even know that other Wii games exist and hasn't asked for any. She really likes WiiFit! just know this will come up and she will eventually become aware of more games. We actually bought the Wii for the grown-ups as a fitness tool, though.
Quote:


> I seriously question if any of you remember what it was like to be teased and taunted for continuously not having the right clothes or tech or newest toy. Times are different, and just because in your 30s or 40s you can look back at your school life and say that never having anything new never bothered you does not mean that it will not bother the OPs daughter right now as she is living it.


Um, whoa again! Actually I quite clearly remember being very upset about not having the "right" clothes in junior high. However, DD is just 7, and it's certainly not the case that she "never had anything new." or that she is being brutally ostraiczed for being the poor kid. Again, it's just on my radar, and I'm thinking about it. Also, I do rather reject the expressed opinion of you and PP that the ONLY way to be cool is to BUY THE STUFF. I do think kids are impressed by various things, and not all of them require spending.

At 10 or 11, FWIW, I'm sure I'll be relatively open to her having a cell phone, iPod, etc. But she's still awfully young for an expensive item like that and I don't see myself budging at this point.


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## MamaMunchkin (Feb 3, 2011)

I've been struggling with this too - we're very much back-to-basics kind of family, for a lack of better word. We don't follow any trends for kids or even ourselves - definitely nothing considered cool, cool currently or in any era







.

Computer yes, TV packed in some box somewhere, cellphone yes but very recently. DD has - never - been to a movie theater, she has no idea what/who Harry Potter is - she heard about it from friends but that's about it. And on and on ...

So, I totally know where you're coming from. I anticipated this problem will come about but didn't think it'll show up this early (my DD is 7 too).

I guess just like with yours, it's not a problem yet - but DD's starting to notice. So far, we haven't budged yet because it looks like it'll be a slippery slope - where and how do you draw the line where/when to budge or not?

I don't know what will work in the long run - in terms of what will "protect" her from being hurt for being considered uncool etc. It just seems like a never ending process, I just don't want to encourage that. I'm kind of in a wait-n-see mode because it's not a problem yet. I'm hoping in the long run, she'll be comfortable enough with herself that this won't be a problem - that's the approach I'm working towards I guess.

It seems that despite the cool/uncool things, DD has managed to find lots of other things in common with the other children as of now. She plays with kids that have common interests - like swimming, or doing arts/crafts, or whatever else. During playdates, every so often, I would hear the other kid brags and DD usually has no idea what they're talking about - that usually lasts for a few minutes, then they just move on to other things that they both enjoy. It so far hasn't bothered her much so I just let it go.

Also, I know what you mean with living around people with different values - well, we do struggle with that as well, but just keep looking. At the same time, I'm humbly learning from DD, actually - look for the things we have in common and don't focus on the differences.

I wish I can tell you concrete things that will work but just want to let you know you're not the only one dealing with this.


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## hippiemombian (Jun 5, 2011)

I see where you are coming from because I agree with some of the things you have said, but at the same time I disagree. IMO nail polish isn't sexual, I've been painting my kids nails since they were infants because I thought it was cute and girlie. Now buying her those thongs for little kids.. that is sexual. Ear piercing, again my kids have had their ears pierced since they were 3 months. Again, its cute and girlie.

The TV is on in the background nearly all day in my house. Its off when DD is doing her school work, but aside from that its on and they play the day away, stopping to watch a show and then onto the next thing. Its not a big deal for me.. my girls are VERRRYY smart, well behaved, interactive children. Some TV isn't going to corrupt them. They also get sometime each day on the computer if they ask.

It seems like giving a little would make a big difference in your DD social world. Give her a "cool" snack so she has something to trade at school, just because you don't pack her "bad" food doesn't mean she can't get it at school. Take her to the store and let her pick out some awesome Wii game. Let her get her ears pierced. And adjust her bedtime a little bit. My ex was a senior in high school, 17 years old with a 9:30 bedtime. Talk about embarrassing.. "I can't go to x,y,z because I have a bedtime.." I know your DD is ALOT younger, but I think the key is flexibility.

And FWIW, I know that you are trying to protect her and do the best/right thing for her. But the reality of the situation is there may be a day where she gets tired of being the kid with "uncool" things or can't have "cool" snacks, can't do things other kids her age are doing etc and she may start to act out in other ways to feel accepted. My whole life I was poor, I didn't have cool things, neat clothes, I didn't fit in or relate to any of the other kids. When I got to high school I went CRAZY!! I was a honors student with a high GPA that started skipping school because that's what the other kids were doing. I started having sex because for the first time in my life I "had" something that someone else wanted and I could control the attention I got. I'm not saying that if you don't buy her an ipad this is what is going to happen, but if she wants a Twinkie a lunch, she'll find a way to get one.. KWIM? I would suggest figuring out what deep down is important to you. And all the other stuff find a way to give a little to your DD.


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## emilysmama (Jun 22, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> I'm going to ask you to question your premise: Does she need "stuff" to brag about?
> 
> Ds' best friend spent a year at a private school where the kids had a lot of money. One day when he was over, he started playing a 'game' with them that went something like "I've got X that you don't have." The kind of stuff that he was saying sounded a lot like what you're hearing from camp. "I've got an iPod and you don't." My kids, completely misunderstanding the game, came back with "I've got a stuffed penguin." "I've got 3 sharpies." The game petered out pretty quickly. Not all kids care. (Thankfully, ds' friend's parents moved him to a school that was a better fit for their family values.)


This is just like my 7 year old dd. We don't watch any television at all. The only television that my dd even gets a glimpse of is the television (often tuned to televised tennis matches, but sometimes to random cartoons) at the tennis courts where we play, and the restaurants that insist on having blaring televisions. So one time, the queen bee in my dd's first grade class started bragging about what she saw on TV the previous night. My dd proudly chimed in, "Welllll, *I* get to watch TV on at the tennis center," and the conversation with the queen bee continued without a hitch. My dd got to put in her two cents worth, and she was satisfied. I think that this is just the point. My dd doesn't need or ask for stuff to brag about. She just needs to brag, which is fine. She just does it creatively.

Not that she doesn't constantly ask me for a DS. But she isn't asking for a DS because she wants to brag or talk about it. That's different. She is asking for it because she sees the other kids playing with them and she would also like to play. But she accepts my just as constant "no"s in reply with good humor.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Maybe you could wait it out a little and see how it goes at school, and see what ends up being really important to her. A little time might help you see how your dd is doing, and get a read on what the social culture truly feels like to her. When my oldest needed some social currancy, and we were moving away from a waldorf lifestyle, Harry Potter did the trick. That's what was being read and talked about. But honestly, at 7, I'd wait a little and scope things out a bit.

FWIW, I don't generally find that "things" make as much of a difference as parental attitude does. If you carefully consider your child's needs, and let her know that you value what's important to her (which may be different from what's important to you), I think that will go a long way. A little flexibility and willingness to make your boundaries "flex" when they need to, will help.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nursingmommaof2*
> 
> just because in your 30s or 40s you can look back at your school life and say that never having anything new never bothered you does not mean that it will not bother the OPs daughter right now as she is living it. I was one of those kids who never had anything new because of rigid ideals held by my parents, and I don't remember wonderful values being passed down, I remember being left out as all the other kids talked about what toys they had or what tv show was on last night or the movie they saw on the weekend.


I was also a child who didn't get things because of my parents values (they are fundy Christians and viewed pretty much everything as sin). When I left home, I went completely wild. I eventually calmed down. As a parent, I left my kids make as many choices as possible with their own lives.

There are so many things that as adult I just don't care about that my kids do (like technology), and I respect their right to feel how they feel and have some control over their lives.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> To clarify a little--this doesn't seem to be a huge deal with DD yet, but it is on her radar. I have heard her complain about bedtimes, about ear piercing/nail polish (I have issues with girls being sexualized too soon, which is why I don't like polish, but I guess silly colors on her toes will work for me), about her lunch not being cool and so nobody wants to trade with her, and about not having an electronic device/iPod. None of these things seem to cause her major trauma (and she is a drama queen, so trust me, I would know), but she's aware of it.
> 
> Uh, whoa! She doesn't even know that other Wii games exist and hasn't asked for any. She really likes WiiFit! just know this will come up and she will eventually become aware of more games. We actually bought the Wii for the grown-ups as a fitness tool, though.


I don't think that nail polish or earrings are sexual, at all. Not one bit.

For many years, my kids favorite way to wear polish was something like bright green polish with bright blue dots. (made by using a tooth pick). It was silly, fun, whimsical, etc., but pretty seriously NOT sexy!

My deal with earrings was that the needed to be old enough to really understand what they were getting into -- the pain, care, commitment. One of my DDs still doesn't have pierced ears, the other got her ears pierced at about 7 or 8. For a long time, all her earrings were shaped like animals -- horses, cats, starfish, even some jelly fish. Then she went through a stage where all earrings matched clothes. She liked packets of earrings where you get like 12 pair that all look the same except for color, and she liked to coordinated them with what she was wearing. Daisy earrings every day in a different color are NOT sexy.

I misunderstood you on the Wii. I thought it was an issue. For us, the Wii was purchased for family fun and we sometimes all play together on "family game nights." (sometimes we play boards games or card games instead).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MamaMunchkin*
> 
> I guess just like with yours, it's not a problem yet - but DD's starting to notice. So far, we haven't budged yet because it looks like it'll be a slippery slope - where and how do you draw the line where/when to budge or not?


For me, it's been about getting clear in my own head about *why* I'm saying yes, no, or later to something. There are so many things that I say yes or later too. For me, the bottom line is that some day my kids will be making ALL their own choices, and that I'm constantly teaching them *how* to make those choices. I'm totally fine with making choices just because something is fun. Fun is good.

I'm also fine with using my veto power on stuff that I think will actually be bad for them or for my relationship with them. TVs in their room have fallen into that category for me.

I'm fine with telling them that I need to think about something. They know that means that I'm really thinking about it, not just delaying saying no.

One of the things I want to raise my children with is the sense of their own power. I believe that if I told my kids "no" about everything they suggested, they wouldn't realize how much power they have to create the lives they really want.

I don't feel like listening to my kids and allowing them some reasonable control over their lives has been a slippery slope. I feel like it's been a gradually process of letting them figure out what works for them and why.

I also know that if a kid is told "no" enough times, they will eventually quit asking. Not because they don't still want it, but because they know the answer. My kids don't ask about TVs or computers in their bedrooms anymore.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hippiemombian*
> 
> Give her a "cool" snack so she has something to trade at school, just because you don't pack her "bad" food doesn't mean she can't get it at school.
> 
> ....she may start to act out in other ways to feel accepted..... I would suggest figuring out what deep down is important to you. And all the other stuff find a way to give a little to your DD.


I agree. I think that letting her pick a snack to include in her lunch will tell her that you hear her and care about how she feels, but it isn't going to ruin all the hard work you've done to instill eating habits. She doesn't even want to eat it. She wants something that other kids will eat -- she wants to be part of a social interaction at lunch time.

I agree about figuring out what is actually important to you, and what isn't. You've lumped an amazing amount of stuff into one group. Some of it I was OK with at 7, some of it I was OK with at an older age, and some of it ain't never gonna happen at my house.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Meh. The thread is sort of going in an "you're doing it wrong" direction. I'm not really interested in hearing why I need to pack junk in her lunch or buy her more stuff. What I was looking for mainly were some ways to give her currency that would also be in line with the values we promote as parents.


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## swd12422 (Nov 9, 2007)

I don't think you have to pack junk in her lunch, but what about homemade treats?

I also don't think you need to buy anything. You already have a lot of currency, and you listed it all in a PP. Cool backyard, great art supplies (she could invite a few friends over for craft day -- seriously, I was never an art/craft person, but if anyone had something better than crayons and markers, I loved to play and experiment with it), fun activities at home... Her currency could be her way cool mom and all the fun stuff she has to do at the house! Thing is, those things ARE your values, as much as buying stuff isn't. So she needs to bring to the table what she values. That's her currency. Maybe it's different than mainstream, but it's who she is, who you are as a family, and so what if it's different. Different doesn't make it less than, attitude does. Does she want to be friends with kids who don't value what she does? (Or am I missing the point and she wants you to buy all that stuff so she'll fit in?)

(And I cringe at all the chemicals in hair dye, and my mom never let me do it b/c it was a "grown up" thing, but I think different-colored hair every few months will definitely give her currency AND let her express her creative side even in a uniform!)


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

What has she asked for to feel included? For my dd things that help her feel like she fits in are going to the really amazing water park, having been on an airplane for both a long trip and several short ones, having pierced ears, bringing friends to the lake to swim, choosing her own hair cuts and styles, seeing the movie everyone else has seen (or at least reading the book about it), and being able to wear the clothes that are in fashion (luckily our fashions are girl fashions not adult fashions). All families seem to have something they do that is cool and kids tend to know a great deal about the many different things they can do to be cool, some of which should easily fit into your family lifestyle because there are so many. My dd lets me know what is in and I try decide on a case by case basis if I am going to allow something into our lives or not. Sometimes I do compromise or relax my standards some because I really do get tired of always being the one to say no. For the most part though we keep to our values and I point out the fun things she does that other kids can't do.


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## nursingmommaof2 (Jul 2, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> Meh. The thread is sort of going in an "you're doing it wrong" direction. I'm not really interested in hearing why I need to pack junk in her lunch or buy her more stuff. What I was looking for mainly were some ways to give her currency that would also be in line with the values we promote as parents.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> I don't see myself budging at this point.


Sorry, I wasn't aware that you only wanted to be told what you want to hear.

Great job mama! Don't worry about dds feelings or the fact that the social world has changed since you were in school! Just keep doing what you have been doing, your dd will appreciate so much that you stuck to your guns and refused to consider any opinions other than your own, especially not hers! I totes agree that 7 is too young to have valid feelings. I love the idea of the adults only game console! Maybe one day all the adults could have ice cream for dinner and your dd could eat broccoli!

Hey, maybe being the 'cool mom' will be her currency? After all, you have a kickass backyard and ART SUPPLIES! Tweens love nothing more than art supplies. I'm sure when she is 18, friendless and isolated, clothed in nothing but thrift store castoffs, lacking in any sort of technical literacy she will look back at the time when she was allowed to paint on her jeans with fond memories.

PS good work on keep her de-sexualized. I saw a five year old hussy the other day, wearing earrings, nail polish AND a bracelet! What were her parents thinking!????!!!! Her skirt was so short I could see her ankles!!!!!!


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nursingmommaof2*
> 
> Sorry, I wasn't aware that you only wanted to be told what you want to hear.
> 
> ...


Whoa, hold on a minute! You seem to be responding to some imaginary person you made up based on your own parents and people you've argued with in the past, not to anything Loraxc actually said in this thread.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Never mind. Edited this post after I decided not to feed the troll.







Post history can tell you a lot.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

This thread isn't just turning in a different direction, it's beginning to spiral







.

Loraxc, for what it's worth, I think that you are on the right track by being thoughtful about your family's values and communicating them to your child. If you model and instill confidence in her about those values and choices, she's less likely to be troubled by envy of others or made to feel badly that anything is lacking in her life. I think giving a child confidence in herself and in a family's choices is the first step, before worrying about "cool stuff" she can use for currency herself. So I think that you have the right approach.

When my children report to me about their friends' cool stuff, my tactic has always been to acknowledge their friends' good fortune, without any hint of envy or negativity. If it was something that my kids wanted for themselves, we brainstormed about it, if it was something that we agreed about. For example, when ds was about your dd's age, he wanted a hand-held game system, so we set up savings system for him. He eventually bought it with money he saved from allowance, birthdays and a matching amount from us. When the kids were a little older, we did the same things with iPods. When we bought a Wii, we found entertaining games like RockBand that encouraged multiple users to have fun together. When we moved into this house with almost no backyard, we bought a table tennis game for the basement and let ds and his band practice in the basement (at one point, with 2 full drum kits, no less!). The point was to find stuff that was consistent with our values, just as you are doing. If you keep looking, you will continue to find opportunities.

I honestly think attitude - welcoming friends and encouraging (or at least tolerating) their play, encouraging positive attitudes without envy, acknowledging other's good fortune but recognizing your own - can mean just as much as being able to show off the latest cool gadget.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

As a parent who at one time gave into all the WANTS. I can tell you your kid would rather brag about how much fun YOU are. I had given my kids DS's, numerous games, cable tv, a computer for game play, bikes, basketball hoops, you name it they got it.

I spoke to my oldests school counselor last year and she told me something that made me step back and face palm. My oldest class was told to brag about their parents or guardian to find positive things when you're feeling let down by them. She literally came up with the largest list in the class and not one of those things was about stuff! While the other students bragged about what their parents bought them, she bragged about all the crazy things we do. Sing offs, dance offs, story telling, treasure hunting, hiking, swimming, hand puppets, blanket making... NONE of those things cost a dime. We stopped giving into those wants that they can brag about. Instead we fill it with the more important things. Too bad it cost me so much to realize it.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> Um, wow, nursingmomma. That was pretty out of line.


I agree with you that the post was out of line.

On this subject, I see myself as a "middle path" parent. I don't think I've ever once bought or done something for my kids "just because it's cool." In my first post on this thread, I talked about how I talk to my kid about things that I say no to, and may be that would be a helpful place to return to.

I help my kid break down her perception that "everybody else is" (which is seldom true) and I help her brainstorm responses for when things come up in conversation. The appropriate response to "I just got back from Disney! It was the best vacation EVER" is not "yeah, well my mom lets me play with matches." I think helping our kids pivot their thinking to more realism is helpful for them, and that a big part of the problem for them is figuring out the social interactions when our "no" issues come up.

We are all going to have different "no" issues. May be if we talked more about how we handle them rather than the specifics of what our "no" issues are, it would be more helpful to the OPer.

Also -- over the years, one goofy thing that has gotten my kids "cool" clout is that children are allowed to cook in our house. Build your own pizzas is a tradition -- children love coming to our house, being given a lump of dough to shape, control over how much sauce to use, and a variety of toppings to choose from. When the kids were younger, I would have cookies and icing and sprinkles and let them decorate. Now that they are older, I give them a bag of chocolate chips and let them follow the recipe on the back. Many children have learned at our house that it's possible to make pancakes without a mix. So few families actually cook from scratch, and I guess a lot of moms get freaked out by mess easier than me.

Even though we are a family that goes and see the big new films on opening day, I think making good conversation and the freedom to make a mess in the kitchen are actually working better for my kids in the friend department.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I do want to thank those of you who have posted kind and helpful responses.
Quote:


> honestly think attitude - welcoming friends and encouraging (or at least tolerating) their play, encouraging positive attitudes without envy, acknowledging other's good fortune but recognizing your own - can mean just as much as being able to show off the latest cool gadget.


Yeah, I agree.

I want to say that I posted partly just to open a conversation about something that I think is probably a fairly common concern for MDC parents. Some of these things are just not going to change (no Twinkies in her lunch) but others are under consideration. I do think of this as a place where having strongly held values is par for the course and I'm surprised at the undercurrent here. I didn't anticipate the tenor or tone of some of these responses and it's bumming me out. I guess the community has changed.


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> One thing I wanted to add is that the kids whose parents always hosted playdates, slumber parties, and backyard watergun fights never needed currency. We all knew they were cool.


Yeah...that's what we try to do. So far we have had a slumber party and a summer party. The summer party was just from an idea we found in Yum For Kids magazine....we had a make your own ice cream sundae bar and then the kids went out and played water games...they had teams where they saw which team could sit on the water balloon and break it first..and they played duck duck goose with a car sponge where instead of duck duck goose they did drip drip splash and then they all just ran around and played in the creek. Sometimes the simple things are the most fun...and we do have video games and stuff but we try to give them other ideas so they can look back on memories with friends besides video games and staring at tv.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I was confused after reading your first post. It sounded like your daughter wanted this stuff, but you had decided it was forbidden at your house. I'm a big fan of giving kids at least some level of autonomy, even when it doesn't line up with our ideals 100%, because their life is their life and some of these choices should be theirs, IMO, so my response was based on the idea that you could give your dd some choices as far as this goes, but it sounds like that isn't an issue - that she's ok with not having this "cool" stuff. It's possible other people read the first post the same way.

As far as cool snacks at school, nuts are permitted at my dd's school, and she's considered cool for having pistachios in her lunch. Odd things can be cool with kids as far as food goes. We made homemade crackers at one point and she told me how cool everyone thought those were. I would never get Twinkies either, because my dd can't handle the blood sugar spike and then head right into class. That makes her too moody.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I don't know that she's okay with it, but it's not ruining her life or anything. It's on her radar, and I was interested in talking to other similar parents about how they handled the issue.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

nursingmommaof2, your post is very adversarial and rude. As well, your account shows an IP and cookie match with three other accounts , which also had the same sort of posting behavior. I am closing your account. If you wish to remain as a member here you can contact me at [email protected] to discuss your registration and posting history.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

I haven't read any responses yet, just wanted to respond to this,

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> I guess some part of me is trying to come up with something she can say when the other kids are going "My mom and dad let me..."
> 
> ...


Not silly at all. I think it's thoughtful, kind and sympathetic of you to consider her feelings and worries. For what it's worth I support your stated values, but I think sympathy for your daughter's concerns goes a long way towards maintaining a good, trusting relationship.

Off to read the other responses.


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## starling&diesel (Nov 24, 2007)

Thanks, *Cynthia*! Way to smoosh the dastardly troll!

To *lorax*, I worry about this already, and dd is only 2.5 yrs old.

I've been gratefully reading this thread and collecting ideas and thoughts, and just wanted to tell you that I appreciate you starting it, and that I'm sorry that it spiralled out of the trajectory you were aiming for.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> One thing I wanted to add is that the kids whose parents always hosted playdates, slumber parties, and backyard watergun fights never needed currency. We all knew they were cool.


Totally agree.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *karne*
> 
> FWIW, I don't generally find that "things" make as much of a difference as parental attitude does. * If you carefully consider your child's needs, and let her know that you value what's important to her (which may be different from what's important to you), I think that will go a long way.* A little flexibility and willingness to make your boundaries "flex" when they need to, will help.


Absolutely true.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> Meh. The thread is sort of going in an "you're doing it wrong" direction. I'm not really interested in hearing why I need to pack junk in her lunch or buy her more stuff. What I was looking for mainly were some ways to give her currency that would also be in line with the values we promote as parents.


It's good you're observing and thinking about this, but I don't see how anyone can give you relevant suggestions when your child is only 7 y.o. and isn't particularly experiencing a need for social currency yet. I think you need to wait and see what your daughter actually comes up against. Right now you're speculating, making good educated guesses about what 'currency' she's going to want. You may be right about all the examples you give, but chances are there will be issues that would never occur to you that she would be concerned about. And the opposite is true. Wii games may never be an issue for her.

Edited to add regarding iPads: 'kids with iPads' more likely are kids whose parents have iPads. My husband was given an iPad for his work. We all play with it. There's no way on earth we would have bought one ourselves.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

I thought of a couple more things for you and DD:

kool aide hair dye
hair wraps (omg these were so cool when I was a kid, but maybe that just shows my age?)
fingernail stickers (they are really made to go on fake nails, but my little sister used to just wear them. She would also put them on her face by her eyes. They look like rhinestones)
silly bands? (they are cheap)
What about a trampoline, pool, awesome swingset?
stuff with her name on it
Her own key to the house, on a cool keychain.


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## aHikaru (Apr 12, 2011)

I went through the same thing throughtout elementary school and jr high because I couldn't compare myself to the other kids at my school, it wasn't til I met my best friend in high school where I was able to embrace who I was and find out who I wanted to become. I completely agree with your parenting choices, as I am working on parenting the same, I'm just choosing to homeschool or put her in a Waldorf school, aka like minded parents. From my personal experience, the competition only progresses no matter which private or public school you go to. If your daughter has friends with similar parents, even outside of school, I would definitely focus on those relationships.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *cassandraz* 


> I'm just choosing to homeschool or put her in a Waldorf school, aka like minded parents.


Homeschooling is not an opt out. We are former homeschoolers, and my kids learned about the Disney channel and lots of other things at homeschool group. Unless you go raise your kids in a cave with a rock in front of it, you get to deal with this stuff one way or another.

I feel the need to give my mothering.com credentials:


both my kids nursed with child led weaning. I tandum nursed.
I carried them in slings, and wore out a sling with each child
we had a family bed for years, and my kids transitioned to their own beds when they were about 4 or 5
my children have only known gentle discipline. (though I have yelled a few times, and given a couple of time outs over the years)
I used to be the librarian for my LLL group.
we started out as unschoolers, and I help found a homeschooling group
my kids currently attend a crunchy alternative school, with a kiln, green house and chickens
they are only partially vaxed, and we delayed the few vaxes that we got

And, having said all that, playing with the Wii and just having fun hasn't undone one thing. They are really awesome people.









I asked my kids about "cool" tonight and if they thought they were cool and I'll share their answers with you

DD#1 (age 14 and dx'ed with Asperger's and a social anxiety disorder) "I don't really get what cool is. Some kids are really hung up on cool and make themselves miserable over it, but I just ignore it because it confuses me"

DD#2 (age 13 - and laughing) "Ironically -- she's considered cool by some, partly because she really doesn't care! Some people consider me cool, and some don't. The definitions of what is cool are really different in different groups. I do like it when people think I'm cool, but it doesn't really bother when other people don't. I just consider how they define cool, and think about whether or not I value their opinions."

I think they are pretty grounded people -- in spite of being allowed to do things just because they are fun.









*Happiness, fun and social connections are actually quite good.* Raising a kid with autism, for whom none of those things are natural, has shown me that. I honestly would have handled all this stuff differently with my second child if I hadn't seen it all through the eyes of "A Special Needs Mom" first.

And, standing on my soap box as a senior member who now has teens, I think think that getting more hung up on your philosophy that what is actually going on with the child who is right in front of you is a waste of the moment you are in. Just be in the moment with your child. Empathize with them. It doesn't mean always say yes, but rather, just parent from your heart to their heart.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> *And, standing on my soap box as a senior member who now has teens,* I think think that getting more hung up on your philosophy that what is actually going on with the child who is right in front of you is a waste of the moment you are in. Just be in the moment with your child. Empathize with them. It doesn't mean always say yes, but rather, just parent from your heart to their heart.


I'm in this group as well, and I wanted to say that at this point, the cool factor for my dd is having a mom who will do things with her (something SHE wants to actually do, not what I want to do!). I guess from this vantage point, my feeling about values is that the best, and sometimes the hardest to make work, values have been around staying connected with my children. As my oldest as entered preteen/early teen years, I've had to rework some of my expectations and fantasies about what our relationship would be like. Sometimes it feels like I'm on a ship in rolling seas, trying to stay upright, lol.

I know this doesn't address cool stuff to give something to brag about, and I'm not trying to make less of those concerns.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

One of the practical solution to this in our house has been to make sure my kids have their own money which they may spend as they please.

They get/earn enough so they can afford things they really want if they prioritise. It has taught them a lot.

If new gadgets are important to her she will spend her money to get them.


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## valsblondies (Jul 1, 2009)

I'm learning that no matter what values I have and have tried to instill in ds (who is 11 and just starting middle school), the opinion of his peers, and of mainstream society, is going to have weight for him. This may not be true of all kids, but I think it is for most. Last year, his teachers encoraged the kids to bring ipods and ipads in to school to take notes. I thought this was ridicuous (ummm- paper and pen?)- and would be a distaction and possible security issue. DS has an ipad which was a birthday gift from his uncle (no- dear brother didnt check w/ me first lol). DS begged everyday to bring his in and I refused. Finally, he said to me "Mom, everyone thinks Im lying and are making fun of me for it". Do I wish DS could know it doesnt matter what his peers think? Sure - but he is 11 and of course it matters. So I let him bring it in one day to "prove" he owned one. I was so torn about this - I hate that this is the society we live in but that is the reality if you are public schooling. We did homeschool previously and I didnt find this materialism in hs kids.

This year, I was told all of his shirts needed to have the hollister name across the chest. Again, not in line with my values but I bought him a few. This will pass- I dont think wanting to have a shirt that is cool is going to affect his core values. We have had the discssion of why I dont care for status symbols based on wealth and I think as he gets older, he will come to embrace this himself.

Also, to the op - I did resist getting a wii until ds was 8 and when we got one, was surprised at how little it even gets played. My 2 lo's (2 and 4) have no interest in it. I was worried about nothing - it hasnt "taken over" our lives.

I dont think that a child having something technoogical indicates that they are spoiled or that "natural" learning is being neglected. Compters, ipads, etc. are a wonderful tool that kids can use to explore and use their creativity. My sons 11 yo bf, who is homeschooled, just got his own mac laptop- which was over $1200. The boys make their own music, shoot and edit videos and add graphics and create animations with this computer. Most of this has been self-taught. I am really amazed at what these kids do on the creative programs available on this computer. I dont feel that his parents were harming or spoiling him in buying it for him. It was within their budget(and they are very economically responsible people) and gives him a platform him to learn, create and have fun.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I guess my approach to this is to teach dd that you don't need collateral to be cool and that peer pressure is something that she's going to have to deal with the rest of her life... learn to deal with it now without compromising personal beliefs. That is, do you really want to hang out with kids for whom "what" is more important than "who"? This is something that we talk about, and have done so for a long time... what kind of people to surround oneself with, and to be friends with people who care who you are and not what you have, do, or anything else "brag"-worthy.

Dd is 9.5 yo is not mainstream and neither are we. We are raising her to be PARTICULARLY non-mainstream, as we don't agree with that particular philosophy of being. We're happy and confident how we are and don't feel the need to fit in with people we really don't want to be around anyway. We don't have video games of any sort, no pierced ears, no nail polish, no smart phones, we have TV (a 19" tube TV), but dd watches shows like I Love Lucy and Andy Griffith, and she's never seen Disney or been to McDonald's. No twinkies, or processed food. We go to the movie theater only rarely. In the end she is considered "cool" and "fun" by her friends, because she's just herself and is a fun person to be around. At school, the teachers are always telling us at conferences that dd is everyone's friend and gets along with boys and girls alike. They always say, "Whatever you're doing, keep doing it because you have an amazing daughter." So, something is right with our attitudes. Kids shouldn't need collateral to be friends. They just need to enjoy each others' company. I'm in my 40's and we didn't need collateral when I was a kid and I don't see why they need it now no matter how "things have changed". In truth, things haven't changed that much. It's not like back in the 60's and 70's we were thumping our chests and dragging our knuckles.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> Meh. The thread is sort of going in an "you're doing it wrong" direction. I'm not really interested in hearing why I need to pack junk in her lunch or buy her more stuff. What I was looking for mainly were some ways to give her currency that would also be in line with the values we promote as parents.


I'm still wondering if you've asked her what's important to *her*. Do you have to buy Twinkies to toss in her lunch? Nope. But you could toss in some brownies or cookies that the two of you baked.

Both of my kids are pretty much their own people, but sure, there were things that they didn't have/weren't allowed to do that their friends did/were. We talked about those sorts of things a fair bit, because I remember being there as well. It isn't fun. Some things I wasn't willing to budge on, but others.... really not a hill to die on. And SOME things? Surprised the heck out of me. I found out that their friends were jealous that I actually *cook* and loved being invited over 'cause I'd make "cool" food. Instead of calling for pizza, I'd make baked ziti or mac & cheese from scratch. Instead of running out for donuts in the morning, I'd make funnel cake. Or pancakes and sausage. Or whatever.


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

I really think there can be a middle ground. I grew up without when it came to certain things because it wasn't in the family budget. But there were things that we got that happen to be the hot item that year or whatever. It sucked. It wasn't so much about being cool as much as we didn't always fit in and we lived in a small community so that is who you had to play with, didn't have a lot of options.

If she wants a music player doesn't mean it has to be a expensive one like an ipod they make other mp3 players. Or the smaller ipod which is probably around the same price as some off brand cheap one. (50.00) but you could make it so she earns it type thing by doing some extra work.

Things like nail polish and stuff like that might fun for her and you can control by what colors you allow or don't allow and things like that.

The snacks at school during lunch no it doesn't have to be store junk food but you can make stuff at home to send with.

Little things can go a long ways with out really changing your values. But I am also in the camp of as kids grow one has to be willing to change things at times because well it sucks always being the kid without. While it may not matter when they are older per se it matters to them at the moment.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtiger*
> 
> I'm still wondering if you've asked her what's important to *her*. Do you have to buy Twinkies to toss in her lunch? Nope. But you could toss in some brownies or cookies that the two of you baked.
> 
> Both of my kids are pretty much their own people, but sure, there were things that they didn't have/weren't allowed to do that their friends did/were. We talked about those sorts of things a fair bit, because I remember being there as well. It isn't fun. Some things I wasn't willing to budge on, but others.... really not a hill to die on. *And SOME things? Surprised the heck out of me. I found out that their friends were jealous that I actually *cook* and loved being invited over 'cause I'd make "cool" food. Instead of calling for pizza, I'd make baked ziti or mac & cheese from scratch. Instead of running out for donuts in the morning, I'd make funnel cake. Or pancakes and sausage. Or whatever.*


Yup, I've had the same experience. My 16 y.o. daughter has been praising the lunches I pack for years now, AND she reports back that her friends are in awe of my sandwiches.







She shares her cookies and she says they love them! Seriously, they're just oatmeal raisin cookies. But they are home-made. I don't think these kids get home-made much.


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## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

My kids are younger so I haven't BTDT, but I think the "cool" thing really is a race to the bottom, in terms of both your values and your bank account. No matter what "currency" you give your DD there will always be someone with more. I think it's better to focus on dealing with it rather than backsliding on your values to help your DD fit in.

This comes from someone who was an ubergeek with ubergeek parents. I dealt with a very painful elementary and junior high school experience and sure at the time it felt like if I just had X I would have fit in. But, really, WOULD I? Every kid on the playground is going to get teased for something, it's really having the confidence and backbone to deal with it that prevents your kid from being a continuous victim. One thing I was teased about in elementary school is that I was good at school and got very high marks, but you wouldn't want to encourage your kids to underacheive just to fit in. And there were academically successful kids who were popular. The difference was confidence!

The takeaway for me was not to buy my kids more junk. I think if my parents had in any way empathized with the social experiences I had rather than just flat-out telling me "people should accept you for who you are" and "everyone should just get along" then it would have been easier to deal with. It's not that I don't agree with those things, but I don't think it was particularly helpful to have parents who just assumed that being a social misfit was a normal state of affairs. There's a big difference between living intentionally according to your values and being oblivious to the larger culture, even though it might mean the same number of missed TV references or no-junk-food lunches. I would make this clear to your kids at a time when it's age appropriate.

ALL THAT SAID...I agree with PP who advocated for autonomy, perhaps in the form of a small allowance. All things in moderation.

ETA: Despite my house being morbidly uncool, by high school my basement had become the default gathering place for my group of friends, in large part due to my kind and welcoming parents who loved having teenagers around. When I see high school friends they still ask me how my mom is doing!


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## pete7 (Aug 9, 2011)

Here it goes. We live in Los Angeles and are all too familiar with the pressure to "be cool". However, there are some harmless little things here and there that you can do for your daughter. i.e. feather extensions in her hair. Tell her when she gets them not to brag about it. Let her friends notice first and say "it's no big deal, my parents support me in whatever I do, they keep me safe, but let me have fun". Also, she could have a very cool hobby. i.e. our daughter goes to gymnastics class and loves it. It gives her something other than "main stream stuff" to focus on, gives her a respectful and dedicated peer group, and it's not half bad to be able to tumble on a playground as if it were nothing to it. Having an athletic body often infuses kids with confidence overall.

I also like the cooking thing, since I don't know your daughter's interests it is a bit hard to gage what she would want to be into. Baking really cool looking decorated cupcakes for your friends and being able to have cup cake parties is quite the treat. Many parents won't let their kids have full reign of the kitchen for culinary experiments...

We don't have a tv either, and our daughter does not show much interest in all the shows. We do sometimes find YouTube clips that are frequently watched (of course we check them out first for being "harmless") and she can be the first one to email it to her friends. That makes for a cool little trendsetter and it doesn't even really cost anything, but if you are the first kid to send say cool parcours videos, your little pals know you are somehow "connected with cool". Maybe you want to follow a few teenage trends yourself and then tailor it for your little girl, so she can have "the edge" of knowing what's going on out there...But most importantly: Don't try too hard. Tell your daughter the most uncool thing is trying too hard. If young ones are really bending over backwards to follow every trend and be cool you can be sure the are somehow feeling empty inside. Keep doing the good job you are doing and your daughter's "cup" will never be so empty as that she needs to fill it with "junk".

best of luck!!


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## Thalia the Muse (Jun 22, 2006)

My daughter's ten, and we also live in the L.A. area.

I agree that feather extensions are a hot ticket right now! And yes, lots of her friends have iPods -- or jeez, CELL PHONES, which seems nuts to me. But other things that get you cool cred have little to do with expensive gadgets. Some other status multipliers for today's fifth-grader:

Taking the "wasabi challenge." Apparently one of the kids brings sushi for lunch, and the kids dare each other to eat balls of wasabi.

Reporting adventures -- zip line, skateboard tricks, etc.

Silly Bandz (do not have to be brand name, there's a million types of these rubber-band things out there) to trade, especially unusual ones.

Being good at art or singing or dancing.

Mad skillz on the monkey bars.

Most of the kids actually admire being good at academics, at least at this age. The top AR reader, that type of thing.


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## briansmama (Oct 14, 2005)

I love the pp idea of a cool hobby or interest to keep from focusing too much on mainstream things- this seems to work very well for us.

Our boys are home schooled in a neighborhood of kids who all go to the same school. They do not watch TV, or have a DS, or cell phone or iPod like then other kids do here. But most days the boys around our area are in our garage and house. Mainly I attribute this to my oldest, who is approaching 8- he absolutely loves any sport. He gets really passionate about activities like mountain. Biking, skiing, football, basketball. We support his interests fully and get him any equipment he needs. He surfs, paddle boards, etc. He never has a shortage of mainstream friends, simply because he finds common active ground.

Even other kids who aren't as interested in sports find something in common with him- he's very into nature survival skills. He did a homeschooling nature based program for a few years and learned how to make hunting materials out of sticks and wood and build bunny shelters and forts. This comes in handy with nearly every other boy he meets.

So, my point is that kids will often sharpen other skills and utilize those when they are not given every gadget other kids get. It may actually build character. I was one of those kids whose parents did not have the money to buy anything extra, and it was a bummer. But they also did not make the effort to support my interests- I think that is the difference. We havemore resources than my parents ever did, but we use them to support healthy interests our kids have, and they know this. So it works.

HTH!


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## dbsam (Mar 3, 2007)

OP, I was glad to see this thread. My children are also 7 and I have noticed many of the same differences between my children and their classmates as you. I'm working on being more flexible with my child raising ideals. Although it is not a problem with them yet, they are noticing and mentioning the items their friends have. So, as kathymuggle suggests, we've allowed them to spend their savings on items they really want. I thought they might decide to purchase a DS, Wii or something like that....but they wanted a metal detector and a safe - I figured they were destined to be 'uncool' like their parents. But surprisingly, other kids think their purchases were great. Going forward, I'm sure they will decide to purchase some of the same items as their friends.



> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> One of the practical solution to this in our house has been to make sure my kids have their own money which they may spend as they please.
> 
> ...


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## matte (Dec 26, 2010)

To answer a question from the OP (but not in the original post): If you are in a city with a large (or largish) Indian, Pakistani, or Arab community there should be a beauty salon that does professional henna tattoos. They're something people get for weddings or other major special events, usually. Your daughter might really enjoy getting a professional one (even small) at a salon because she could then brag about the authenticness of the salon experience. Otherwise, you can get the henna at an Indian/Pakistani/Arab grocery store.

If you don't live near a salon or store that would provide henna you can buy it online from Amazon or similar. The easiest way to do it is to get the paste that is premixed and already in tubes, like these: http://amzn.com/B000SSN91Q You can also get special squeeze bottles that have little pen like tips but are refillable. Search for "mendhi kit" on Amazon and you'll see lots of options.

One thing that she might really enjoy would be having a party where she and her friends could do henna tattoos for each other.

Also, if you feel it might help for her to have a "device" maybe consider a kindle? I see them advertised used, which isn't too expensive. You could load it with classic books from the free/public domain ebooks on Project Gutenberg, and it can play MP3s, also. Might be a little more expensive than a non-ipod MP3 player, but might also get cool points for being a completely different concept...

Just FWIW, I was raised without earrings and nail polish because my family had convictions very similar to your own. I think I would have been better off with nail polish and earrings, frankly. I was told explicitly that I wasn't allowed to have them because they were 'sexualizing young girls' etc. Made me feel like a tramp for wanting them. They make these cool-stick on polishes in crazy patterns now, maybe you two could do them together as a fun bonding thing? Also you can get some pretty cool effects on nails by painting them with henna...


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Thanks for the info on henna!

We haven't told her very specifically why we aren't into little girls wearing heels, makeup, nail polish, earrings, etc (the earrings is more about my suspicion that she will not want to care for the piercings). We just say those things are for big kids and grown-ups and that she'll get to wear them someday when she's older. I bet even those saying nail polish and earrings are no big deal here do draw the line somewhere (eg, you probably don't let your 7yos wear eye makeup and lipstick). It's really more about my hating the way we are teening up these little tiny girls.

Interestingly, none of this has come up since that camp she was in ended. We'll see if it comes up again when school starts. I think the lunch stuff will (we are talking about this--I just so hate buying individually packaged stuff) but I don't know about the rest.


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## tooraloora (Oct 15, 2010)

Have you thought about sending bento boxes? I did that for my DD last year. From what I hear some kids get really positive reactions, some get negative, so it could go either way, but it might be worth a shot. Every lunch I sent with her was healthy and homemade, but cute. I didn't spend a lot of time it, either. I prepared stuff in advance so I had a stash, and spent maybe 5-10 minutes putting her bento together in the mornings. Sent it in her hand painted canvas lunch bag (I'd painted her name and a little fairytale scene), with a set of training chop sticks (and a backup fork in the bottom in case she needed it), and it was a big hit. Apparently the other kids were always interested in what she was bringing in, and she spend a large portion of lunch time sharing about what she was eating and giving samples to some of her friends. There wasn't any trading going on, but being vegan, that would have been difficult anyways, and she didn't seem to care about that activity anyways. At one point she asked if she could try eating school lunch like the other kids and after one day she wanted to go back to bentos. She said she didn't like any of the food, and everyone was asking where her bento was. She was happy with leftover spaghetti as long as I put it in a bento. Sometimes with kids presentation is everything.

If you do take that route, cookie cutters can dress up any sandwhich, flower shaped oni giris are apparently way more tasty than those traditionally shaped, and mini muffin tins are awesome. DD loved to see mini carrot cakes, tiny little pies (with the fancy lattice work and all, make them in advance, don't bake, freeze, pop them in the oven when you wake up in the morning, they cook fast), mini lentil loafs, basically anything mini. I always packed extra of those, since other kids were usually after them and they were easy for DD to share. Also, putting a face on things is usually a big hit, too. One sheet of nori will get you tons of eyes and mouth.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

I just want to say that after all my years parenting, and tons more to go, *I* am that cool mom. We do have a wii, and computers, but no cell phones for kids, no handheld games, no fancy clothes (almost everything is bought second hand or on major sale). We *do* have livestock (goats, rabbits, chickens, guineas, ducks), lots of honey to share, apparently the coolest food on the planet (mostly home made from scratch out of necessity, lol), the best popsicles, an above-ground pool (hey, we're in Tx and surviving!), a trampoline, board games, "spa days", "jammy days", woods to explore, and what I hear is the most cool is that we let our kids be themselves. My son has had a mohawk, long hair, and now has a "normal" haircut, but wears black leather accessories, my dd is gauging her ears (heck, she's 22, what do I care?), etc.

I totally agree w/the henna. Very cool.

We don't spend alot of money on "stuff". We do spend on "experiences".


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## IrishWristwatch (Sep 15, 2011)

Just a thought from a newbie, but might she feel more alienated from your attitude towards all these things other kids have and do, than from not actually having them?

My mom was VERY strongly anti-TV, for example. There were other things too, but growing up in the late 80's and 90's, TV and pop culture were big things. But her attitude about it - talking about how bad it was at every turn and why other parents were wrong to let their kids watch so much MTV, putting our lifestyle on a pedestal and acting almost like a martyr about it - was a lot more memorable and created more insecurity than not getting the latest Indiana Jones movie reference ever was. It made me feel so different and like I either had to fight my mom on her values, or fight my friends defending her values. I didn't want to do either; I loved my mom and still love her to death even though I disagree with the level of controlling she used. But back then it was a really... crappy position to be in, as a little kid. I was more acutely aware of it because of her attitude, and in turn that made it painfully more obvious when a differnece was pointed out, whereas if she didn't make a point of it, I wouldn't have noticed much at all.

She made a point of letting us and other parents know between us and other families, and how much she went on about it was directly related to how I felt about it. There were things we did differently that she never harped about and never bothered me, because I didn't know it was a conscious effort to separate ourselves from others or to force me to be different.

I'm not saying don't stick to your most important values. But it sounds like you are very intent on not only being different, but pointing it out. Maybe you need to approach it from a less isolationist view and point out things your DD DOES do like her friends: she enjoys meals with her family, she has adventures with her parents, she does arts and crafts, she plays outside, whatever it may be.

If she REALLY doesn't have anything in common with her peers, it might be time to either find her a peer group more in line with your values so that she's not having to always be "that kid with the weird strict parents" or maybe relax on some things just a little to give her a more positive common experience/social currency with her peers so that she doesn't feel so isolated. If she's going to be in that environment and you know how it is but still force the differences, you're in essence forcing her to fight your battles. You might not agree with how the social system works, I don't think many of us do, but it is what it is and forcing your DD to be there but always be the outsider looking in maybe isn't the most constructive way to do things. Just my 2c from someone who knows what it's like to be the weird kid with the weird parents.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

Hey loraxc,

Has she started school? How is it going?

Our kids have moved from a hippie crunchy private school to our local elementary (in our pretty crunchy town, but there's a lot of diversity). I've noticed, especially with my dd2 that at 6, 7, 8 and up they start to really be more aware of peer culture. I think what you're picking up on is perfectly normal developmentally, as you no doubt probably know, and I get what you're saying about wanting some kid currency more in line with your family's values. The thing is, I think the kid currency varies a lot depending on the group she's with. When my kids occasionally moan about Disneyworld (which they don't often do, but occasionally I hear, "Susie got to go to DISNEYYYY") I remind them that we got to go on a really big trip out west this summer and they're usually fine with that. In other years I might mention that we got to go to the beach or the mountains. They have no idea what's at Disney so they don't really know what they're missing and they're not big Disney fans so it's not a huge issue for us.

Now the pierced ears-that's another story. Dd2 (7) has been buggin' me for about a year for pierced ears and it's clearly because two little friends (at the hippie school, too!) had them. I wanted to hold off until she got to her new school and see if it was still a "thing" for her, but she is still very interested and so is dd1 (10) so I will probably let them do it. Dd2 says she wants them at her birthday so we might just do that and let dd1 get them then too. I've been a little bit worried about her taking care of them and also dealing with the ouch factor of having it done, but they say they're okay with that and seem like they probably will be ready.

We do do nail polish as a treat. There's a Klutz kit that we used to have that's pretty good. It has a lot of little animals and stuff you can make, but the "polish" which is really just like acrylic craft paint peels off really easily. We started with this because I wanted something that was less toxic than traditional nail polish. Lately I've just been buying polish at the HFS (like once a year for a stocking stuffer). The kids really do like it and I'm okay with it. I learned early on that I have girlier girls than I ever was (big tom boy as a kid). They love dance (but we go to the hippie dance studio) and loved all the tutus as little ones (not so much now). Me, I was climbing trees and running through the woods. They do that, too, but also ballet!

So back to the kid currency thing, I try to not encourage bragging because I'm worried about my kids hurting someone else's feelings. They can be a little snotty if they're not aware ("I got to go to Yellowstone this summer, na-na-na"). So, I'm trying to encourage them to think about others before they start in and make sure they phrase their message in a way that won't cause hurt feelings. I think it sounds like you already have plenty of kid currency. If your dd is not too worried about things yet I wouldn't encourage her to go down that road just yet. I think this is one area where being reactive rather than proactive is not really a bad thing. I mean certainly do the activities that you already like to do as a family and get her the things you were already planning on getting her, but I don't know that you need to worry about laying in a stock of good kid currency. It's so changeable. Wait until she comes to you and says "Janie said she has this great game on the Wii - how come she has that and all we have is Wii fit!!?" - then you can evaluate what the game is and if you think it's something that would be a good choice for your family.

For my girls, there's been very little that has stuck. They'll mention Disney once in a great while if a friend they know has been recently or maybe they'll mention some other passing fad, but none of it lasts very long. I evaluate it and decide if I think it's something we want to participate in (ftr, I'm fine with Silly Bandz -- cheap and they have a life as a rubber band after the novelty has worn off) or if it's something we want to pass on (not into American Girl doll$$, but we have some knock-offs my sister gave them). The only thing I can remember recently that stuck is the pierced ears and I will probably do that because my only arguments against it are "it hurts" and "you have to take care of them" and they both seem ready to deal with both of those.

A book you might like that I found out about here on MDC a few years ago is "Girls Will Be Girls: Raising Confident and Courageous Daughters" by JoAnn Deak. I thought it was very thoughtful. I got it when we were having some peer exclusion issues and cattiness to deal with in 3rd grade. I thought it gave a much more balanced view than the much talked about "Queen Bees and Wannabees" (not for me). "Girls Will Be Girls" addresses the girl friendship issues starting from about age 7 up through teen-dom. I thought it was especially strong in the tween middle years section.

Let us know how it's going...I think you're on the right track, so just keep on keeping on...


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## jenrose (Apr 25, 2004)

We ran into this with K (my now-18 year old) when she was small. I was quite strict. I let her watch TV, but we had a rule that she was not to even ask about toys from commercials. That if she got to nagging about toys from commercials she saw on television, I'd reconsider letting her watch television. The exceptions: Christmas and birthday wish lists, and her own money. If she earned or was gifted money, she could use it how she saw fit. She could earn pocket change doing chores, and was gifted a reasonably substantial $ amount ($50-100) by her distant grandparents once or twice a year. If she wanted something bad enough to buy it herself or remember it long enough to put it on a list, it would be considered. There were a lot of things I just didn't let her do, some of which I don't even remember telling her not to do, but which she told her friends I'd told her not to do anyway... (Notable example... friend turns on Britney Spears video... K pipes up with "My mom wouldn't want me to watch that." I don't think I'd ever said word one to her about BS, but she was right...)

When she was in 1st grade, Pokemon was becoming HUGE. Huge. And collectible cards were huge among her friends. Kids would brag about the cards they got that week, and the cards they were going to get. We sat down and talked about it at one point, and I asked if getting all those cards made those kids happy with what they had, or if they just wanted more and more... and she realized that all the "stuff" wasn't making those kids any happier than her. And for Christmas, I bought her a pikachu keychain...which she adored, and was happy with. Happier, in fact, than those boys with the books and books of neatly arranged cards. When she got her own money, she thought about buying cards, or saving up for a gameboy and a Pokemon game. She saved up... and you know what? 10-12 years later? She's STILL sometimes playing that pokemon game with some of her friends. The lesson I was after, and the one she got, was that it wasn't wrong to want something, or to save up and buy something, even something relatively frivolous like a video game, but it was vitally important that she maximize the value of the things she was purchasing. That she focus on things that she would use often and for a long time, that she look for things that would hold up well over time. She bought one "TV toy" once that got old about 20 minutes after she started playing with it...and cost $20. And we talked about that, too. She learned to try things out before buying them.

We do have video game consoles. And she does spend time playing. But it's always in balance... during the school year, video games can never be more important than school.

She had 'friends' who criticized her for eating meat, in grade school. The kid is allergic to soy, egg, peanut and dairy. So she eats meat. We had to talk about the underlying "Why" of things, and the importance of eating a balanced, nutritious diet that makes your body healthy, and that not every way of eating works for every person. And she learned the hard lesson that some people are too shallow to waste the effort of being friends with. Anyone who didn't want to take the time to understand that there were medical reasons she couldn't eat the way they did wasn't really worth her time either.

She said to me once, in middle school, "Mom, I'm really glad I'm not one of the popular kids. Because I have friends, and I know they're my friends because they really like me, and not just because I'm 'cool'."

When it came down to it, there were hills to die on and battles not worth fighting. Hair color is a battle not worth fighting in any kid too young to be needing a job. Tattoos are another story. Insisting on waiting to puberty or age 12 for ear piercing was a reasonable limit. But we never, ever did anything just to give her bragging rights or to make her seem "cool". Cool was never a goal, because the last thing I ever want for my kid is for her to be making a lot of choices based on peer pressure.

When I started wanting more brand name clothes, my parents put me on a clothing budget and let me buy my own stuff... but when the money was gone, it was gone.

When my husband was being made fun of in school because his jeans were an unpopular brand, his mother went through and removed all the external brand labels... and it solved the problem.

Whenever something came up that seemed "uncool", we took the logical approach. One of the neighbor boys once asked why my daughter wore a helmet when none of the other kids on the street did. I just smiled and said, "She likes her brain and doesn't want it to get hurt if she falls off her bike." As one of the boys was currently wearing an arm cast due to breaking his arm falling off a bike, this hit home, and suddenly a lot of kids on the street were wearing bike helmets.

If a kid were to say to your daughter, "You don't get to stay up late?", I'd encourage her to say, "I like getting enough sleep, it lets me have more fun during the day."

As for the "splash out" issue... there are lots of ways to have a fun party without spending a ton of money, and lots of fun things to do or places to go that aren't very expensive. I was pretty much broke until my daughter was about 10 years old, and we still had parties, they just didn't involve hired clowns or bouncy castles. They involved homemade cupcake cones that the kids decorated themselves, and music, and maybe playing outside or in a pool. We had a policy that even-year parties could involve a fair number of friends and would be daytime things, and odd year parties were sleepovers with a few friends.

By the time I was in high school, the kids with the super permissive (and often absent or distant) parents were actually a little wistful about those of us whose parents were NOT so "cool", but were more present. "My parent lets me get away with crap that isn't very good for me" at some point stops being a bragging right. "My parent loves me enough to set limits" is not a bad thing at all. That said, I do believe in moderation, and that means some flexibility about occasional treats, the occasional late bedtime, etc. I don't like "eat all the candy you want", but "No candy ever" also sets up a potential unhealthy dynamic. "You can go out trick or treating, but no more than two pieces of candy per night for X nights and then the rest goes away" sets up a much more maintainable life lesson in the long run. Then again, I did let my kid have all the candy she wanted, once. She threw up and then decided for herself that the original limit made more sense.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Almost everything you can't have or can't do is cool when you're little. The DD's know that there are just some things that they will not get. Will they get expensive clothes? They may be a little more expensive than others but they will not be some momentarily popular brand. Will they get cool toys? If they have the money for it they can have it all.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Didn't realize this was still going! Yes, DD has started at a new school and I have heard nothing about any of this since this summer, except for being asked about ear piercing again. I think it had a lot to do with hanging out with preteens and teens in her summer group. Her current class seems pretty unsophisticated and also has many kids whoe parents are immigrants, which I think can change the dynamic.
Quote:


> But it sounds like you are very intent on not only being different, but pointing it out.


Actually, no, not at all. I virtually never point any of this out and I certainly don't cast aspersions on other people's parenting. Never. DD does ask about some things sometimes and I am always very careful to frame it as neutrally and casually as possible.

I did buy another Wii game that the kids enjoy, though I usually only let them play it when the weather stinks and they can't go outside. It's an extreme sports game, so pretty "cool."


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> Didn't realize this was still going! Yes, DD has started at a new school and I have heard nothing about any of this since this summer, except for being asked about ear piercing again. I think it had a lot to do with hanging out with preteens and teens in her summer group. Her current class seems pretty unsophisticated and also has many kids whoe parents are immigrants, which I think can change the dynamic.


That's GREAT! This summer one of my DDs spent a lot of time around her mainstream peers and it really made me appreciate her alternative school friends. I hadn't realized how muted this issue is for us because my kids mostly live in a happy little bubble with children of hippies.


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## MoonlessNightx (Oct 4, 2011)

Yeah WiiFit is definitely NOT cool material. I would get her another Wii game that she can get excited about. Maybe even let her pick it out.

Try to think back to when you were that age and then go from there.


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