# required reading for highschool



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Our local schools require reading over the summer, and one of the required books for incoming freshmen is _Angela's Ashes_. I was surprised by this, partly because it seems like a *popular* book to me rather than a *classic,* but also because the content seemed heavy for 14 year olds. At the bookstore the other night I noticed they had a table set up with all the required books for all the grades, and _Kite Runner,_ _The Bell Jar_ and _Native Son_ were on the table (I'm not sure for what grades). These books also seem rough for highschool students.

On one hand, I don't believe in censorship and I think that teens should have access to these books if they choose to read them. At the same time, handing them to a teen and saying, "of all the things in print, this is the most important thing you can read right now" seems odd to me.

Perhaps I'm just off base. My oldest child is 10. May in a few years these will seem like perfectly reasonable books for her. Also, my kids are homeschooled, so they never have *required* reading anyway. They just pick what sounds good, and sometimes I make suggestions. It's not like this is a personal problem for our family.

I just wondered how other moms feel their teens reading books with violent or sexual themes or books that are depressing. Do you feel differently about the kids picking them up to read on their own or having them required? Is there a difference between a classic and a more recently written book in this respect?


----------



## widdlelou (Feb 28, 2006)

I don't have a teenager, but I can give you the point of view of a high school teacher (well now I'm a sahm). For many english classes they aren't totally going with "classics" to teach the students. And classics change, there are new classics. I think Sylvia Plath's the Bell Jar is a classic. Its a pivitol book full of deep thought, and very well written. Its a book I think that is great to read, full of femist thought and thought provoking issues. Its a book that forces deep thinking and a great book to discuss. And bravo for them requiring such deep literature. Native Son is also an important book. I believe I read this in middle school or 9th Grade, it delves into racisim and African American culture during segregation and a whole slue of issues. And Anglea's Ashes is terrific as well. Plus its adding Irish culture and the relgious conflicts and effects of poverty on a person/family/people.

These books are made to hook kids into the class. They need to be deep enough that it will draw out questions and thoughts through their own study and so they can journal them easily. I think that many classics are dealing with many depressing isues. Most of the classics are. And yes there are some sexuality in some of these books, its not the main theme. But you are talking about teenagers here. They are dealing with heavy issues, sexuality and the like. And its good to find different point of view and such in these books. Its what makes literature exciting and important. Most the books I read in high school were kind of depressing, but thats not going to lead a kid to be depressed, but it will give them an intersting point of view that I think will only enhance their life.

Oh and to add one more thing... I think its important also for every once in a while to have a student read a book that manybe they would not probably choose by themselves. It opens up their minds to something new -- new poitn of view, new way of thinking etc. And that is important as well. But taht is imho


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I'm probably not the best one to answer since we are unschoolers







I don't like required reading of specific texts. On the one hand I can see that it can open kids up to experiences and books they wouldn't choose on their own. On the other hand I think that subjects that include violence or tragedy can be too much for anyone, adult or child and requiring such reading material is problematic IMO.


----------



## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

I guess I think you're off base. Look around our culture. Look at what kids see in movies, hear in music, see on the news. They are not unfamiliar with these topics. Which is not to say that they *should* be reading about them necessarily, but to say that it isn't going to be traumatizing for them to do so.

And especially when it comes to reading a book so gorgeously written, in which the evils of violence, ignorance and poverty are made so stunningly clear. I don't think teens will come away from AA thinking only, "man, that was depressing." They'll come away thinking, "Man, blind obedience to religion does terrible things to people. Living in abject poverty can be soul-destroying. Alcohol can destroy families..." and a host of other very worthwhile life lessons. Which, as we all know, can sink in a lot more effectively through a good story than through dry facts.

Also, the "classics" (which as a former English teacher I'm quite familiar with) are pretty much steeped in war, murder, betrayal, incest and the like, too.)


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:

it isn't going to be traumatizing for them to do so.
No one can make a blanket statement that it won't be traumatizing. It's completely rediculas to say that since movies and the news depict violence kids are immune shows a complete lack of understanding of the uniqueness of individuals.


----------



## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

Well... I firmly believe that MOST teenagers at the age of 14 are ready to read and discuss Angela's Ashes.







: It is beautifully written and is a wonderful piece of literature. If your child is too sensitive - I guess you could discuss it with the school to make an exception. *shrug*

I think though, that we worry so much they won't get it, or won't like it, or will be too scared or too confused that our own concerns limit their perspective, since kids tend to pick up on parents' attitudes towards various life topics, kwim?









Taking the standpoint that AA is too traumatizing is the same as saying, let's not read Bambi, or Grimms Fairy Tales, or any book that has death or some traumatic event for that matter, and you'll end up with one short list of books, and a very narrow view of life, imho.

I believe that children understand more than adults think they do.


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Luckily we are talking about teenagers. As such they are capable of communication with people regarding their needs.


----------



## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
Luckily we are talking about teenagers. As such they are capable of communication with people regarding their needs.

Absolutely. And that is the reason why I am saying that most teenagers are capable of reading AA. I haven't heard one say that it is too traumatizing for them. Once again, I'm not denying the fact, that someone's child might not be able to handle it at 14, my point was that it would be an exception rather than a rule, imho. That's why I am not shocked, surprised, or appauled to see it on a reading list in HS.


----------



## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

I also wanted to mention that I understand Unschooling perspective, I really do. At the same time, if you come into the classroom where classics are discussed, you might be surprised at the deapth of thought and understanding that kids put into serious reading when presented with it.


----------



## SusanElizabeth (Jun 2, 2006)

Many 14 year olds have already dealt in their own lives with some of the problems encountered by the family in Angela's Ashes. Some have a parent who drinks too much, and others are from families that struggle to make enough money. So I definitely feel that 14 year olds should be able to deal with reading about these things.

Learning about life and the struggles people encounter is a big part of getting an education. We had to read The Diary of Anne Frank in 8th grade, and I also remember reading The Pearl by John Steinbeck at that age. Anne Frank's diary is obviously very very sad and I remember thinking that if one more terrible thing happened to the main characters in The Pearl, I would scream!!


----------



## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
No one can make a blanket statement that it won't be traumatizing. It's completely rediculas to say that since movies and the news depict violence kids are immune shows a complete lack of understanding of the uniqueness of individuals.

I suppose that's true. And if a parent knew that their teen was likely to be traumatized by a book assignment, he or she could make arrangements for that child to read something else.

That said, I agree with pp who contend that it's going to be the rare kid who would be traumatized by an encounter with a book. IMO, trauma does not generally occur as a result of reading. Yes, a sensitive, extremely sheltered kid may encounter unfamiliar topics that may be shocking and disturbing. But traumatizing? I'd be surprised. (Of course, I could be mistaken.)

I say this someone who was a very sheltered (no tv, little popular culture) kid and a dedicated reader to whom nothing was off limits. I read many books that were probably too old for me, but I honestly can't remember being negatively impacted by any of it. (More often that not, a lot of that stuff just went right over my head).


----------



## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 
I just wondered how other moms feel their teens reading books with violent or sexual themes or books that are depressing. Do you feel differently about the kids picking them up to read on their own or having them required? Is there a difference between a classic and a more recently written book in this respect?

Well, speaking as both a homeschool mother AND a high school English teacher who requires her students to read over the summer, think about your question for a few moments. In the spirit of English teaching, I'll put this in the form of multiple-choice questions.









Do you object to the fact that...

a) These books have "violent or sexual themes"
b) These books are "depressing"
c) These books are "recently written"?

If you object to the fact that these books have *violent or sexual themes* (regardless of when they were written), then I'm sure you would object to the following texts. All of these texts are written before 1900, and all of them are ones one might be likely to see (or see selections from) in an English, world, or American literature class at the high school level:

1. The Bible
2. All of Shakespeare, including especially the following:
2a. _Romeo and Juliet_ (V/S = violence and sexuality)
2b. _Julius Caesar_ (V)
2c. _Macbeth_ (V/S/Su = violence, sexuality, supernatural)
2d. _Hamlet_ (V/S)
2e. _Othello_ (V/S/R = violence, sexuality, racism)
2f. _Twelfth Night_ (S)
2g. _King Lear_ (V/S)
3. Milton's _Paradise Lost_ (V/S/Su)
4. E. Bronte's _Wuthering Heights_ (V/S/Su)
5. All of Edgar Allan Poe (V/S/Su)
6. J. Bronte's _Jane Eyre_ (V/S/Su)
7. Mark Twain's _Huckleberry Finn_ (V/R)
8. All of Geoffrey Chaucer's _Canterbury Tales_ (V/S/Su)
9. All of the books I'm going to list below

If you object to the fact that these books have *depressing themes*(regardless of when they were written), then I'm sure you would object to the following texts:

All of the books I listed above, plus...

1. Sophocles' _Oedipus Rex_ and _Antigone_ (incest, sacrifice, self-mutilation)
2. Hawthorne, _The Scarlet Letter_ (adultery, sacrifice, single motherhood, religious repression, obsession, psychological torment)
3. Hardy, _Tess of the D'Urbervilles_ (rape, illegitimate child, death of child, murder)
4. Wilde, _The Picture of Dorian Gray_ (homosexuality, drug addiction, murder, suicide, sociopathy)
5. Stevenson, _Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde_ (murder, suicide, playing God)
6. Shelley, _Frankenstein_ (murder, playing God, stalking)
7. Jane Austen, _Pride and Prejudice_ (fornication, marrying for money)
8. Jonathan Swift, Gulliver's Travels (excrement, political corruption, cynicism)
9. Jonathan Swift, "A Modest Proposal" (human cannibalism of Irish babies)
10. Niccolo Machiavelli, "The Prince" (cynicism, political corruption, ends-justify-means method of ruling through force)

If you object to the fact that these books are *recently written*, by which I'm referring to books written no earlier than 1900, then I'm sure you would object to the following texts:

1. All of Orwell
2. All of Steinbeck
3. All of Hemingway
4. All of Huxley
5. All of Alice Walker
6. All of Toni Morrison
...and so on and so on and so on.

I'm sure you're seeing my point, but like a teacher, I've overstated it with too many examples.


----------



## Flower of Bliss (Jun 13, 2006)

I don't have a teenager yet (DD is not even 1). However, I was a teen, and I taught teens (math, not English) before DD was born.

I think AA is an awesome required reading book for HS. I read Bell Jar on my own in 7th or 8th grade. I haven't (to my memory) read Native Son, so I can't speak for it. I don't think that the required reading is intended to be saying _"of all the things in print, this is the most important thing you can read right now"_ Who could begin to say that about any book to any person at any time? The idea is a good reading level (and age) appropriate book that will be a good jumping off point for classroom discussions, journaling, essays, etc. The idea is for it to engage the students. They pick books to require so that all of the students in the class can discuss them together. Classroom discussions are so important to an English class. I personally took unrequired Lit classes every semester in College and joined book clubs since for the sole reason of being in a group of people reading the same book and discussing it.

I think a few more modern books in the curriculum is a good thing. Those books feel more relevant to the students. Although I enjoyed reading Shakespeare, Charles Dickens, and the like in HS, I also enjoyed reading Joy Luck Club (and I've since read all of Amy Tan's other books as they came out). There was a pretty good sized group of first generation Chinese students in my classes and this book was great for discussion. I found To Kill a Mockingbird in 9th grade to be very upsetting, but in a good way. It made me feel very grown up that we were required to read Catcher in the Rye, absolutely full of vulgarity and sex, in 10th grade. I thoroughly enjoyed the crazy stream of conciousness style of the book. I read Lord of the Flies in 8th grade, but I personally found Macbeth more distrurbing that year. I was really bothered by reading multiple Edgar Allen Poe stories in 11th grade, but it certainly didn't traumatize me. I hated the main character in Madame Bovary in 12th grade, but I still think of the book today (as a new mom staying home). I'm glad I was required to read all of these books, each of which was full of sex and violence. I can't think of a single book I was required to read that didn't have sex or violence in it, or religious issues, or suicide, or death or something. If it didn't have that, what would we talk about? What would keep our interest?


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Another thing to keep in mind with required reading- chances are that these books are going to be discussed in class, to help the kids put some perspective on whatever they don't understand in the books. It's not like they're just assigning books and then ignoring them.


----------



## silly_scout (Aug 31, 2006)

Bravo, Meg Murray (BTW, props for the Wrinkle in Time reference, unless your name really is Meg Murray.)
OP, I'm really not trying to be snarky here, but what do you deem "appropriate" for 14 year olds? When I was 14, I could handle all the themes in Angela's Ashes and The Bell Jar. In fact, if a teacher had read those with me, I probably would've been enthralled (not in a morbid way).
Kids can handle a lot more than we give them credit for. They _know_ the world isn't sunshine and rainbows, and they _appreciate_ it when they are trusted enough to read such material.
I am a SAHM now, but I taught high school English at a Catholic school (despite the fact that I am agnostic







: ) for 5 years before having my DD. I was in control of my curriculum, but I was constantly toeing the line with administration because of my selections. Sometimes parents and administration would be upset with my choices, but the kids _always_ read and they _always_ discussed, rather intelligently I might add. I rarely selected the "classics" like Dickens or Bronte. We read Bobbie Ann Mason's In Country (about post traumatic stress disorder and Vietnam), A Confederacy of Dunces and 1984 to name a few.
Anne


----------



## Venice Mamacita (Dec 24, 2003)

Well, I read "Romeo & Juliet" at the age of 12 for my 7th grade gifted English class (26 years ago) and absolutely loved it. We also read "To Kill a Mockingbird," "A Separate Peace," "Catcher In the Rye," "Lord of the Flies," and "Of Mice & Men." All of these qualify at least as depressing, most violent, and a couple sexual in nature. So IMHO, "Angela's Ashes" for 14-year-olds seems pretty tame. I wish we'd been assigned "The Bell Jar"!


----------



## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
I'm probably not the best one to answer since we are unschoolers







I don't like required reading of specific texts. On the one hand I can see that it can open kids up to experiences and books they wouldn't choose on their own. On the other hand I think that subjects that include violence or tragedy can be too much for anyone, adult or child and requiring such reading material is problematic IMO.









:

Except I do not unschool...

I really hate the idea of requiring reading over summer unless it is to say that a student must read at least one book of their choosing. That is the case with my dd. She was required to read one book over the summer, didn't matter which one. She has read I think four books- three checked out from the library and of course HP and the Deathly Hallows (well, she's on page 417 not, soon to be done!).

As for required reading during the school year, I have np with that. DD read the some Poe and The Giver, amoung others. Both of which are not pretty...


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SusanElizabeth* 
Many 14 year olds have already dealt in their own lives with some of the problems encountered by the family in Angela's Ashes.

While I agree with that in principle, I doubt that many american 14 year olds have dealt with multiple sibling deaths, or ever having a body laid out in their home. My DH and I have jokingly called AA "The Dead Irish Baby Book" since it first came out.

Quote:

Learning about life and the struggles people encounter is a big part of getting an education.
good point.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 
If you object to the fact that these books have *violent or sexual themes* (regardless of when they were written), then I'm sure you would object to the following texts.

There is a big difference between the sexual themes in the books you listed, and the events in Kite Runner (a boy watches as his friend is sodomized) or Native Son (the *hero* rapes and then murders a girl). The fact that Romeo and Juliet wake up one morning together after having sex is small potatoes. In Sense and Sensibility we find out that one of the characters had sex but the sex is never described. That's very different from the books I questioned.

Of all the books you listed, this is the only one I saw in the Required Summer Reading Table:

Quote:

7. Mark Twain's _Huckleberry Finn_ (V/R)

If you object to the fact that these books have *depressing themes*(regardless of when they were written), then I'm sure you would object to the following texts:
.....
7. Jane Austen, _Pride and Prejudice_ (fornication, marrying for money)
8. Jonathan Swift, Gulliver's Travels (excrement, political corruption, cynicism)
9. Jonathan Swift, "A Modest Proposal" (human cannibalism of Irish babies)
10. Niccolo Machiavelli, "The Prince" (cynicism, political corruption, ends-justify-means method of ruling through force)
I honestly don't like depressing books, but I don't find the last 4 you listed depressing. Swift is funny, Jane Austen aways cranks out a happy ending, and Machiavelli isn't emotional for me -- just an interesting point of view.

But I do wonder why schools would push reading depressing books. So many kids leave school not ever wanting to read a book again -- may be more of mix of fun, uplifting books would be a good thing. A steady stream of books that basically say "life sucks and then you die" doesn't seem healthy to me, regardless of when the books were written.

I've always found Romeo and Juliet to be a strange play for required reading because they kill themselves in the end. I like the comedies more -- Tempest, 12th Night, and so on.

Quote:

If you object to the fact that these books are *recently written*, by which I'm referring to books written no earlier than 1900, then I'm sure you would object to the following texts:
I find if odd when books that are less than 20 years old are assigned, but I think that is because it doesn't seem like anything that hadn't be written when I graduated should be required, rather than anything substantial.









Quote:

1. All of Orwell
2. All of Steinbeck
3. All of Hemingway
4. All of Huxley
5. All of Alice Walker
6. All of Toni Morrison
...and so on and so on and so on.
Oddly, none of these authors were on the "assigned reading table." None. I guess part of the reason that the selections seemed so odd to me is because of what *isn't* assigned. I think that The Color Purple is a far better book about race and sexual assult than Native Son, and Steinbeck is one of my favorite authors.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
Look around our culture. Look at what kids see in movies, hear in music, see on the news. They are not unfamiliar with these topics. Which is not to say that they *should* be reading about them necessarily, but to say that it isn't going to be traumatizing for them to do so.

I don't know that it would be traumatizing for them, but I think that the standard should be higher than "not traumatizing."

Teenagers are capable of all sorts of things, but it doesn't mean that those things are best for them.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sage72380* 
I don't think that the required reading is intended to be saying _"of all the things in print, this is the most important thing you can read right now"_ Who could begin to say that about any book to any person at any time? The idea is a good reading level (and age) appropriate book that will be a good jumping off point for classroom discussions, journaling, essays, etc.

There is a nearly endless list of choices. When a teacher makes that choice, they are saying that they think it is the best book for their purpose, and I'm surprised by the choices.

As many teens are super busy, some of them only read what they are required to. The choices teachers make are very important. I'm trying to understand those choices.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oriole* 
I also wanted to mention that I understand Unschooling perspective, I really do. At the same time, if you come into the classroom where classics are discussed, you might be surprised at the deapth of thought and understanding that kids put into serious reading when presented with it.

I think that you might be surprised at the depth of thought and understanding that kids put into serous reading when they are unschooled,







but I really don't want to debate that here, because no one is questioning the thought and understanding that kids are capable of (regardless of how they are educated) just the choice of books that we hand to them and say "read this."


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

If there's going to be required reading, I have no problem with it being heavy.

I had plenty of assigned reading, much of it heavy. The only one that bothered me was Gentle Ben in 4th grade. And then it was mis-represented. We could choose a book from several and I was told it was a "book about a bear" I was very sensitive to animals dying at that age and it really bugged me.

But the super heavy stuff later, I really liked.

-Angela


----------



## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:

There is a big difference between the sexual themes in the books you listed, and the events in Kite Runner (a boy watches as his friend is sodomized) or Native Son (the *hero* rapes and then murders a girl). The fact that Romeo and Juliet wake up one morning together after having sex is small potatoes.

What about the fact that in _King Lear_, a character has his eyeballs put out on stage (Would that be exoculation?) and this incident is described using very vivid language (e.g., "Out, vile jelly!...Let him _smell_ his way to Dover!")? What about the fact that in _Othello_, which I also listed, a character is strangled by her husband in her bed -- an act which is also described and which is clearly traumatic not only (obviously) for her, but for her killer?

In _Lord of the Flies_, as long as we're on the issue of sodomy, a female mother pig is literally sodomized by a spear. This is described vividly, e.g., "Right up her ass!!" A similar killing -- with, one presumes, similar sodomy -- takes place with a human character later.

Quote:


I honestly don't like depressing books, but I don't find the last 4 you listed depressing. Swift is funny,
Even the eating of Irish babies? Swift even suggests baby-cooking recipes in that essay, if you'll remember.

Quote:


But I do wonder why schools would push reading depressing books. So many kids leave school not ever wanting to read a book again -- may be more of mix of fun, uplifting books would be a good thing.
Please, by all means. I've given a list of +/- 27 books generally considered to be "classic" books (meaning they have a significant, lasting impact upon English, world, or American literature) written at or above the 10th-grade reading level. I would be very eager to see your list, also of +/- 27 books generally considered to be "classic" books written at or above the 10th-grade reading level that you would choose instead.

Quote:

I've always found Romeo and Juliet to be a strange play for required reading because they kill themselves in the end. I like the comedies more -- Tempest, 12th Night, and so on.

So you're okay with the racism /colonialism and attempted rape in _Tempest_, okay with the homosexuality in _12th Night_?

Quote:



Oddly, none of these authors were on the "assigned reading table." None. I guess part of the reason that the selections seemed so odd to me is because of what *isn't* assigned. I think that The Color Purple is a far better book about race and sexual assult than Native Son, and Steinbeck is one of my favorite authors.
But it's summer reading. It's very likely that the more modern authors were chosen, as one PP suggested, in order to "draw them in" with literature they would be more likely to consider relevant and timely, but which they would be less likely than usual to choose for themselves.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

*shudder* I HATE Lord of the Flies. Ugh. So make that TWO books I read that were disturbing to me. And I was assigned Lord of the Flies twice...







:

-Angela


----------



## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oriole* 
I also wanted to mention that I understand Unschooling perspective, I really do. At the same time, if you come into the classroom where classics are discussed, you might be surprised at the deapth of thought and understanding that kids put into serious reading when presented with it.

Wait - are you assuming that unschooling teens aren't reading these sorts of books? I mean, obviously all of them won't, but my unschooled 14 year old has already read a number of the books mentioned...

dar


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 
Even the eating of Irish babies? Swift even suggests baby-cooking recipes in that essay, if you'll remember.

Yes, I remember. But he wasn't serious. He said it as a joke. You might not find the joke funny, but it was said as a joke.

Quote:

Please, by all means. I've given a list of +/- 27 books generally considered to be "classic" books (meaning they have a significant, lasting impact upon English, world, or American literature) written at or above the 10th-grade reading level. I would be very eager to see your list, also of +/- 27 books generally considered to be "classic" books written at or above the 10th-grade reading level that you would choose instead.
I like a lot of the books on your list, and wouldn't have batted an eye at most of them. I was questioning AA, Native Son, Kite Runner, and Bell Jar, not the books on your list.

Quote:

So you're okay with the racism /colonialism and attempted rape in _Tempest_, okay with the homosexuality in _12th Night_?
I don't recall an attmepted rape in Tempest (but it's been a while since I've either read or seen it). I don't have a problem with homosexuality. I feel like you are wanting to agrue with me, and I'm just not into it. I don't have a strong enough point of view to debate anything.









Quote:

But it's summer reading. It's very likely that the more modern authors were chosen, as one PP suggested, in order to "draw them in" with literature they would be more likely to consider relevant and timely, but which they would be less likely than usual to choose for themselves.
I wonder if the books chosen would do that. I've no idea. One of my friend's son's just finished AA and his big comment was "my god, that guy sure jerked off a lot."


----------



## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
Also, the "classics" (which as a former English teacher I'm quite familiar with) are pretty much steeped in war, murder, betrayal, incest and the like, too.)

I turned my eighth graders on to Shakespeare by telling them that if their parents knew what the plays were actually about, they'd never let them read them. (I'm not being snarky; for many of them, they were the first to grow up speaking English as a daily language)

They thought it was pretty cool, especially when a few of them picked up on the more obvious double entrendres strewn about Romeo and Juliet.

Hey, it had them begging for more, and they actually moved beyond the obvious bawdiness to actual discussions about deeper themes than I would have expected.


----------



## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
Wait - are you assuming that unschooling teens aren't reading these sorts of books? I mean, obviously all of them won't, but my unschooled 14 year old has already read a number of the books mentioned...

dar

NO no no...

I was simply replying to another post where someone mentioned that they were unschoolers, and her point of view was that AA was too traumatizing.

I was trying to say that I don't think that most kids are traumatized, and that one visit to a well developed English classroom would take away the doubts.

I whole-heartedly believe that for some families unschooling will work better than a public school. So please don't take it as a shot at unschooling.


----------



## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

Also, my school (when I was a student), had the required summer reading, but they listed the books in pairs...so, you had to pick one book from pair A, and one from pair B, so there was some choice.

I hated Ethan Frome and Waiting for Godot. I distinctly remember absolutely hating those books. I was never that upset by a book, though, and we read some humdingers...

Just grabbed the 9th grade summer reading list for my old school...
Choose one of the following groups, and read both books in the group.

Group A: Little Women, The Good Earth
Group B: House of the Scorpion, Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime
Group C: The Bonesetter's Daughter, The House on Mango Street

And, choose one of the following books and read/take notes:
1984 or Farenheit 451

Kite Runner is listed for 10th grade, btw, at my old school


----------



## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 
Yes, I remember. But he wasn't serious. He said it as a joke. You might not find the joke funny, but it was said as a joke.

His intent was as serious as you can get: to call the attention to the brutality of the British toward the Irish. Moreover, speaking as a "British" speaker in this piece, Swift's tone is deadly serious also, as this excerpt will show. No light-hearted baby-eating, this:

I shall now therefore humbly propose my own thoughts, which I hope will not be liable to the least objection.

I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout.

I do therefore humbly offer it to public consideration that of the hundred and twenty thousand children already computed, twenty thousand may be reserved for breed, whereof only one-fourth part to be males; which is more than we allow to sheep, black cattle or swine; and my reason is, that these children are seldom the fruits of marriage, a circumstance not much regarded by our savages, therefore one male will be sufficient to serve four females. That the remaining hundred thousand may, at a year old, be offered in the sale to the persons of quality and fortune through the kingdom; always advising the mother to let them suck plentifully in the last month, so as to render them plump and fat for a good table. A child will make two dishes at an entertainment for friends; and when the family dines alone, the fore or hind quarter will make a reasonable dish, and seasoned with a little pepper or salt will be very good boiled on the fourth day, especially in winter.

It is nice, though, that he advocates breastfeeding.







:

Quote:

I don't recall an attmepted rape in Tempest (but it's been a while since I've either read or seen it).
Happy to remind you of it. In this scene, Caliban, the native of the island, is speaking with Prospero, a duke of Italy who has acquired magical powers through study, about Prospero's young daughter Miranda. Like many Europeans, Prospero has come to this island and taken over, assuming that he is superior in comparison to the "savage" Caliban. Caliban begins by asserting his right to call the island his: he has inherited it from his mother Sycorax. Initially, Caliban relates, Prospero was kind to him and taught him the names of things -- the words for "the bigger light" of the sun and "the less" light of the moon. In exchange, Caliban agrees to show Prospero the ways of survival on the island: the "fresh springs," the "fertile" places things can be grown, and so on. Over time, Prospero has restricted the places Caliban can go, and as if having put him on a reservation, has told him to make his home on "hard rock" while Prospero gets "the rest of the island."

Prospero retorts that this action was done as a result of Caliban's attempted rape of Prospero's daughter Miranda, whose "honour" Caliban tried "to violate." Unrepentant, Caliban retorts that it was a good thing Prospero stopped him before he "peopled else this isle with Calibans." Like many white Europeans, it was one thing to hang out with "savages" and learn from them, but another thing altogether to call them "son-in-law."

Caliban
...This island's mine, by Sycorax my mother,
Which thou tak'st from me. When thou camest first,
Thou strok'dst me, and mad'st much of me; wouldst give me
Water with berries in't; and teach me how
To name the bigger light, and how the less,
That burn by day and night: and then I lov'd thee
And show'd thee all the qualities o' th' isle,
The fresh springs, brine-pits, barren place, and fertile.
Cursed be I that did so!-All the charms
Of Sycorax, toads, beetles, bats, light on you!
For I am all the subjects that you have,
Which first was mine own king; and here you sty me
In this hard rock, whiles you do keep from me
The rest o' th' island.

Prospero

Thou most lying slave,
Whom stripes may move, not kindness! I have us'd thee,
Filth as thou art, with human care; and lodg'd thee
In mine own cell, till thou didst seek to violate
The honour of my child.

Caliban

Oh ho! Oh ho!-would it had been done!
Thou didst prevent me; I had peopled else
This isle with Calibans.
...You taught me language: and my profit on't
Is, I know how to curse: the red plague rid you,
For learning me your language!


----------



## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katheek77* 
I turned my eighth graders on to Shakespeare by telling them that if their parents knew what the plays were actually about, they'd never let them read them. (I'm not being snarky; for many of them, they were the first to grow up speaking English as a daily language)

They thought it was pretty cool, especially when a few of them picked up on the more obvious double entrendres strewn about Romeo and Juliet.

Hey, it had them begging for more, and they actually moved beyond the obvious bawdiness to actual discussions about deeper themes than I would have expected.

You mean they liked that line about the bawdy hand of the dial being on the prick of noon?







:


----------



## sunflowers (Sep 24, 2006)

I can't speak directly about the books Linda mentioned in her original post since I've not read them







:

But I thought I'd share my son's required reading list for this summer. He's entering 9th grade. I'm pretty happy with the choices available and since he'll be in a non-AP class he only has to choose one from either list (not such a happy mom about that option!). AP classes must choose 2 books and one has to be from list "B". Some Ive read personally and some I've not but I like the apparent diversity of genre- from sci-fi to drama to the "classics". DS chose Fahrenheit 451








. I'm hoping he'll like it and I may be able to convince him to maybe read the Verne book or even something else not on the list







. He's not a huge fan of reading, unfortunately









List A
Curtain- Agatha Christy
Fahrenheit 451- Bradbury
Lesson Before Dying- Ernest Gains
Stargirl- Jerry Spinelli

List B
David Copperfield- Dickens
Good Earth- Pearl Buck
Little Women- Alcott
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea- Jules Verne


----------



## sunflowers (Sep 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 
Yes, I remember. But he wasn't serious. He said it as a joke. You might not find the joke funny, but it was said as a joke.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 
His intent was as serious as you can get: to call the attention to the brutality of the British toward the Irish. Moreover, speaking as a "British" speaker in this piece, Swift's tone is deadly serious also, as this excerpt will show. No light-hearted baby-eating, this:


I completely agree with MM about Swifts intention. I can see where it can be mistaken as a joke - in the sense that he was not actually serious in his advocation of Baby Eating -but it is actually an incredibly brilliant satirical essay. One of the best I've ever read. I read it while in 9th grade, in an all irls catholic school (very controversial!) and it has retained it's impact on me almost 25 years later. I wonder if I would have had the same reaction if I had not been a teen when first exposed to it?


----------



## smillerhouse (Aug 5, 2006)

I think it depends on the teen. I have been a homeschooler all along and a plus is teen can go with their interests. My son has read just about everything,starting at age 11-we have discussed and still do so many issues. My daugther,14 struggles more verbally. She prefers popular fiction-in online school she did read Old Man and the Sea last year. Her pick of a novel was Betsy Byar mystery. I have also taught English on high school and college levels. I read very avidly lots and love ideas/themes etc. I deal with all these issues. It is fun for me that my son loves books as much as I do. I accept that my daughter does not. She is much better at math than either of us and see her pursurng a more math/science oriented career. I think I am open with my kids about topics some might consider dark (death/sex,world genocide,homelessness,world genocide,etc. etc.) Sallie


----------



## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

I'm quite surprised that AA is considered over the top for a HS freshman. Our requ'd reading for 9th is _The Pearl_, plus _Fahrenheit 451_ and _Lord of the Flies_ for Honors. For 10th, _Call of the Wild_, plus _Brave New World_ and _A Separate Peace_ for Honors. My son's read all of these except Huxley on his own well before HS. Some meaty subjects, sure, but well within the abilities of a teen, IMO.

AA is on the suggested reading for 9th. My son read it, but didn't like it much. Which is fine.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Also an unschooler...

I think required fictional reading is crazy dumb. I don't care how classic _Gone With the Wind_ or _War and Peace_ are. If someone isn't into it they shouldn't have to read it.

However, since there are kids in programs that require reading I think they should take the limits and sensitivities that some kids are bound to have into consideration. They wouldn't dream of forcing a student to watch something violent or very sad if it was too much for them, and books can be as vivid for some. I think there should be options for kids that decide they are not ready to read some books. A list of acceptable but lighter/less intense books perhaps?

I would not censor or prohibit my kids from reading something though. If I had any concerns I would share them. Ds reads far heavier stuff than I can.


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oriole* 
hat's why I am not shocked, surprised, or appauled to see it on a reading list in HS.

I'm not shocked, surprised or appalled either. Not do I think it's definitely traumatizing. I do think that one can't say it will or won't be for every child.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oriole* 
I also wanted to mention that I understand Unschooling perspective, I really do. At the same time, if you come into the classroom where classics are discussed, you might be surprised at the depth of thought and understanding that kids put into serious reading when presented with it.

Why would I be surprised? I happen to be a lifelong reader with a well read 17 year old unschooler, while I don't go out of my way to engage her in these types of conversations they are natural for me and I do discuss them with the family particularly dh and she can and will join in if she wants to. Serious reading as you put it is not something that is unique to PS kids, and not something that IME one has to make an issue of presenting. Serious topics come up in our family on a regular basis in the course of living and engaging in the world, and as a result of reading.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

My unschooled kids and I love discussing what we've been reading! There is plenty of critical thinking going on there. Dd is currently rereading a book that really moved her, and Ds just finished "Every Inch A King" and is almost done with the new Harry Potter.

Reading, and discussions that stem from it, aren't just for school kids.


----------



## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

I must admit that I was a bit taken aback when I saw the required summer reading for the incoming 9th graders was The Kite Runner. I just read that last spring, and I thought, whoa, that's way too mature for them! Then I thought about it some more, and I've reconsidered. I decided I'm glad their teachers are challenging them, wanting to discuss some very heavy and very relevant topics. The list of questions to keep in mind while reading were very good, really pulling kids in to think about larger themes, as well as the story in and of itself.

I would rather the school challenge my kids with some heavy material than assign easy and safe subjects. If I would have a problem with it, I guess I'd have to talk it out with the teacher. If I couldn't get it resolved to my kid's satisfaction, I guess I'd pull her from the school if that's what she wanted.

Oh, and my oldest read AA when she was ten (though not for school, I had read it and suggested it to her, in part because we were going to Ireland that summer). She read White Fang in 6th grade as a required book.

I do have to wonder about a required summer reading list--I mean, ALL the books are required? For what? Will there be a test? Are they going to be discussed in class? Most summer reading lists I have seen are *suggested* and a note is made to the effect that these are widely considered age appropriate material for this level, and that some of these books may be covered in the upcoming year. Other lists seem to be a requirement because they give a level background to be able to participate in a particular class.

I never experienced that at a non-college level; but I went to crappy schools. My Dh teaches high school now, and I know that some of the history and the political science/sociology classes put out a required reading list for the summer. Mostly they are things that the kids should have read, and just need to review; but in any case they are expected to know it. If they dont' want to do the required reading, they aren't allowed into the class. But these aren't basic classes, they are advanced electives. DH doesn't require any reading over the summer, but he suggests certain websites, books, and movies to keep up the kids' language skills (he teaches foreign languages).


----------



## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lorijds* 
I do have to wonder about a required summer reading list--I mean, ALL the books are required? For what? Will there be a test? Are they going to be discussed in class?

No, on most summer reading lists, students are required to choose one or two books from the list.

For what? Because, sadly, it's the unusual kid these days who reads for pleasure and is accustomed to reading something longer than a few paragraphs at a time on a regular basis. (Speaking as a former English teacher, here). And so, there is the hope that something on that list may spark a kid's interest and just maybe inspire them to go on and read something else. At least, that's the way I always saw it.


----------



## sunflowers (Sep 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lorijds* 
I do have to wonder about a required summer reading list--I mean, ALL the books are required? For what? Will there be a test? Are they going to be discussed in class? Most summer reading lists I have seen are *suggested* and a note is made to the effect that these are widely considered age appropriate material for this level, and that some of these books may be covered in the upcoming year. Other lists seem to be a requirement because they give a level background to be able to participate in a particular class.


Speaking as a parent of a teen who hates to read anything more than a magazine or the newspaper, I like the required reading. It makes it "official" for ds that he has to read something substantial. Mom saying "DS, I think you'd like this book. Why not read it and we can talk about it" or something along those lines doesn't cut it for him. The school sending home a list of books of books that he has to choose something from and them knowing he'll be tested on it the first week of school pushes him to actually get the book out and sit down.

I guess I'm a bit of a failure in that area of parenting. I'm the one mom on MDC whose child does not seem seem to value reading and he doesn't listen to his mom when she makes suggestions like that! I can accept ds for who he is- a kid who prefers to use his hands and manipulate things rather than use his eyes to stimulate his imagination. Not every child loves to read and the reading lists are a tool I can use to encourage ds to try something he wouldn't otherwise choose on his own.


----------



## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lorijds* 
I do have to wonder about a required summer reading list--I mean, ALL the books are required? For what? Will there be a test? Are they going to be discussed in class? Most summer reading lists I have seen are *suggested* and a note is made to the effect that these are widely considered age appropriate material for this level, and that some of these books may be covered in the upcoming year. Other lists seem to be a requirement because they give a level background to be able to participate in a particular class.

Well, speaking for myself, my incoming AP class has to read one required text plus two optional texts (including some films) from a reasonably extensive list. During the first week of class, I'm going to be doing the following:

**Checking their reading journals to make sure they did them.
Stated purpose*: To teach them to annotate texts for meaning beyond plot and to focus specifically on the author's point and the ways in which the author used language and argument to advance that point.
*Unstated purpose:* To let them know that AP is not an easy class, to assess whether they are ready for the level of work the class necessitates, and to have evidence/proof to present to the parent if the child should fail or be in danger of failing.

**Having an in-class essay for which they can use the book and their notes.
Stated purpose:* To evaluate their ability to analyze the author's point and the way in which s/he used language to communicate it, and to evaluate their skill in composing and organizing an essay under timed conditions.
*Unstated purpose:* Pretty much the same as the unstated purpose before.

*During the next following weeks of class, we're going to be using the one required text as a constant example of argumentation and argumentative technique*, given that the author is presenting a very strong (but controversial) view of a subject.
*Stated purpose:* The book is a common example or touchstone I can use that I know all of them will have (theoretically) read.
*Unstated purpose*: Plus, it's a book that genuinely argues that they should think for themselves -- and not necessarily buy in to or believe what they're learning in school, _including from me_, without assessing the information. The other books also present controversial opinions that are not likely to have been taught in school (in fact, quite UNlikely), and for the same reason, they were included on the list.

Hope that helps.


----------



## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Our experience has been much as Meg (above) wrote. The Honors program pretty well skips anything to do with the "regular" required reading (_Call of the Wild_ for 10th) beyond checking that the book was actually read (the regular English classes do take a test, Honors has the reading journal). The other required reading is "tested" via in-class essays and discussions. They allow for the class to get right into it from day one, instead of having a lead time for the kids to read.

Really, though - how is having required reading over the summer (especially if it allows for the class to start immediately on the same page) different than having required reading during the school year? How is a teacher to teach (especially an advanced class) when they're all reading something different?

Meg - I do have a more specific question for you (I'd happily take it private or to a new thread if that's better). How do you handle the use of Spark Notes by your students? After my son slogging through _Great Expectations_ last year and really having to work at that AND on the related assignments, we discovered that all but one other student never read the book, but relied on SNs to get through. Granted, he learned more than the others likely did, but it was very frustrating to him. We've agreed that SNs have a place - AFTER the book's been read - but it would seem to me that a teacher of an advanced class would skew things so that not reading the book wasn't an option. Thoughts?


----------



## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
Our experience has been much as Meg (above) wrote. The Honors program pretty well skips anything to do with the "regular" required reading (_Call of the Wild_ for 10th) beyond checking that the book was actually read (the regular English classes do take a test, Honors has the reading journal). The other required reading is "tested" via in-class essays and discussions. They allow for the class to get right into it from day one, instead of having a lead time for the kids to read.

Really, though - how is having required reading over the summer (especially if it allows for the class to start immediately on the same page) different than having required reading during the school year? How is a teacher to teach (especially an advanced class) when they're all reading something different?

Meg - I do have a more specific question for you (I'd happily take it private or to a new thread if that's better). How do you handle the use of Spark Notes by your students?


Natural consequences, of course.








My essay tests are pretty simple. I pick a random (but revealing/important) quote from the book and ask the writer to explain this quotation in context, analyze it, and explore in what way that quotation reveals the writer's point. If they've read the Cliffs Notes, they're generally screwed because their observations are basically not going to be much better than superficial. Superficial observations, in my class, basically get one a "D."

For what it's worth, I don't mind if they use Spark Notes to help them _understand_ the book. I mind if they read the Spark Notes _instead of_ the book.

Quote:


After my son slogging through _Great Expectations_ last year and really having to work at that AND on the related assignments, we discovered that all but one other student never read the book, but relied on SNs to get through. Granted, he learned more than the others likely did, but it was very frustrating to him. We've agreed that SNs have a place - AFTER the book's been read - but it would seem to me that a teacher of an advanced class would skew things so that not reading the book wasn't an option. Thoughts?
That's also why I do the reading journal. If you're having to respond to specific quotations throughout the journal -- actually, as the major material OF the journal -- it becomes more of a PITA to use the Spark Notes than not. There's no way to prevent cheating, though, not really.

I just thought of this, though -- most of the items on my list are NOT fiction; therefore, they are far less likely to have been Cliffs Notes'd or Pink Monkeyed or Sparked. Could that also be why the teacher in the OP's post chose _Kite Runner, Angela's Ashes_, and such? I wouldn't be surprised, now that I come to think of it.


----------



## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Sigh.... sadly, it would seem that most of the essay Q's came straight from Cliffs and Sparks. Something I plan to address at the start of the coming year.

My take on those aids is the same as yours. Great to help in solidifying the points, review, etc. Not as a replacement. I was actually shocked to learn that Honors students would go there. Color moi naive.


----------



## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
Sigh.... sadly, it would seem that most of the essay Q's came straight from Cliffs and Sparks. Something I plan to address at the start of the coming year.

My take on those aids is the same as yours. Great to help in solidifying the points, review, etc. Not as a replacement. I was actually shocked to learn that Honors students would go there. Color moi naive.

Sorry that this is totally OT by now, but have you ever heard of a plagiarism detection service known as www.turnitin.com?

That has helped prevent plagiarism in my school a LOT. Nothing's perfect, but this has really helped.


----------



## folkypoet (Apr 23, 2004)

Another unschooler here.

On the topic of the OP, I have to admit, I read Steinbeck's _The Red Pony_ in 8th grade and felt traumatized by it. "Too tender-hearted" was my mother's way of putting it. That story haunted me for quite a while.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
Also an unschooler...

I think required fictional reading is crazy dumb. I don't care how classic _Gone With the Wind_ or _War and Peace_ are. If someone isn't into it they shouldn't have to read it.

By high school, I had stopped reading required books. Period. I didn't read a single one until college. I was too busy reading lots of other interesting books (many of them "classics" and "new classics" with heavy themes of their own), and I refused to spend my time reading what other people thought I should. I figured I had better things to do with my days. Acing the tests was easy - even in advanced and AP classes. I just listened to the discussions. Didn't even need the _Cliff's Notes_. Probably says more about the teachers than it does about me.









Had I been given at least some choice in the matter - say, choose three books from this list - I probably would have picked up at least a few. But, as it was, slogging through books that held no interest for me wasn't a top priority.









I did read many of those required books later, and I fell in love with several of them, plowing through everything the authors had written. But, if I'd actually read them at the time, I'm fairly certain they would have left a sour taste in my mouth. And that sour taste can be hard to get rid of, even years down the road. That's what concerns me about required reading. I know that many people have been introduced to books in high school that changed their lives, but I'll bet there are quite a few others out there who will never read another "classic" because of their required reading experiences.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunflowers* 
I guess I'm a bit of a failure in that area of parenting. I'm the one mom on MDC whose child does not seem seem to value reading and he doesn't listen to his mom when she makes suggestions like that! I can accept ds for who he is- a kid who prefers to use his hands and manipulate things rather than use his eyes to stimulate his imagination. Not every child loves to read and the reading lists are a tool I can use to encourage ds to try something he wouldn't otherwise choose on his own.











You should read through some of the posts on the Learning at Home and Beyond board. There are tons of kids out there who would rather _do_ than read, and they're just as well-rounded as the bookworms (often more so).


----------



## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

HOnestely, mos of the teenager live a pretty charmed life in US.....compare to many places on Earth
Getting a dose of relaity from Angela Ashe is not that bad of an idea.
And really..."Hamlet", "Crime and Punishment" or many other classisc are far more traumatazing


----------



## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

I read _The Kite Runner_ on Saturday. Excellent book. Absolutely excellent. Handed it over to my 15yo to read. My 13yo is next on the list.


----------



## Petronella (Aug 22, 2007)

The thing is, most books only say "life sucks and then you die" as you put it, if you're LOOKING for that as the message. And IME, teenagers are better at finding uplifting themes than adults are. I read 'The Road' by Cormac McCarthy and just found it incredibly sad, but my 12-yo dd read it and found it a beautiful, bittersweet story about the love between a father and his son. The gory parts didn't even get to her.

Feel free to disagree, just my two cents.


----------



## mags.bubble (Apr 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *widdlelou* 
I don't have a teenager, but I can give you the point of view of a high school teacher (well now I'm a sahm). For many english classes they aren't totally going with "classics" to teach the students. And classics change, there are new classics. I think Sylvia Plath's the Bell Jar is a classic. Its a pivitol book full of deep thought, and very well written. Its a book I think that is great to read, full of femist thought and thought provoking issues. Its a book that forces deep thinking and a great book to discuss. And bravo for them requiring such deep literature. Native Son is also an important book. I believe I read this in middle school or 9th Grade, it delves into racisim and African American culture during segregation and a whole slue of issues. And Anglea's Ashes is terrific as well. Plus its adding Irish culture and the relgious conflicts and effects of poverty on a person/family/people.

These books are made to hook kids into the class. They need to be deep enough that it will draw out questions and thoughts through their own study and so they can journal them easily. I think that many classics are dealing with many depressing isues. Most of the classics are. And yes there are some sexuality in some of these books, its not the main theme. But you are talking about teenagers here. They are dealing with heavy issues, sexuality and the like. And its good to find different point of view and such in these books. Its what makes literature exciting and important. Most the books I read in high school were kind of depressing, but thats not going to lead a kid to be depressed, but it will give them an intersting point of view that I think will only enhance their life.

Oh and to add one more thing... I think its important also for every once in a while to have a student read a book that manybe they would not probably choose by themselves. It opens up their minds to something new -- new poitn of view, new way of thinking etc. And that is important as well. But taht is imho

Well said, thanks for this response.

To the OP, I have at dc16. At a time when it is hard to find commom ground between us I love reading what they are reading. We may talk about little blurbs from the book or she may ask a question or two. I don't expect her to "discuss" with me, but when she does her project once school starts I find I can really 'share' the experience with her. It is a small way of connecting in a time when she really doesn't openly communicate with her dad and I.

Maggie


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Wow, the books on the required list make Catcher in the Rye, Tell Me That You Love Me, Junie Moon, and Animal Farm - all books that were struck from the English cirriculum in my school in the early 80s, but still made available for us to read on our own for extra credit (I did) - seem tame!









My 14-yo freshman DD is a very mature and voracious reader, and chooses great, challenging books for herself; but I _know_ that Angela's Ashes would just be too much for her. She's extremely sensitive, and knowing that this was a true story she would definitely be traumatized. That's not to say she couldn't handle it when she's a junior or a senior, but right now she couldn't handle it.

I like to see that The Curious Incident of the Dog at Nighttime is on some lists! That is an awesome book - one that even my reading-challenged 16-yo loved.

I'm not a fan of school-"required" summer anything. My DD had to complete a major science project over the past summer, due the first day of school, and I thought that sucked! My kids (except for the aformentioned reading challenged DS) all read over the summer, we are at the library 2-3 X/week during that time. Summer is down time for kids, IMO; and should not include "required" work for school.


----------

