# Breaking Point Mamas Unite



## coleybug (Jun 3, 2009)

There have been a few posts over the last month or so that I've really been able to relate to. You know, the breaking point posts. I was wondering how those mamas were doing. Any changes? Any progress?

DS is going to be one on October 24. He sleeps worse now than he did as a newborn. At 3 months he was going 4 and 5 hours consistently. Now the longest I get is 2 hours and that's not even every night. Plus we usually have an hour or so long wakeful period around 3. He nurses 6-10 times a night. He only drinks 9 or 10 oz of pumped milk during the day while I am at work. I am a mess. My marriage is suffering, my work is suffering, and my older DS is suffering. I can't remember what day of the week it is half the time&#8230;

As I was up last night, (for the 5th or so time) I was thinking that I have to make a change. Now. I am feeling too angry and resentful and it's not healthy for me or DS. I was literally crying and begging DS to go to sleep&#8230;(which of course, freaked him out and caused him to stay awake longer&#8230 So my plan is to try night weaning this weekend. It may help us, or it may be so horrific I abandon it by Sunday. Who knows. But I do know I need to change this, and it can't be worse than now, right? Maybe I'll start a new post about our night weaning adventure on Friday. I have a feeling I'll need the support


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## Rubber Ducky (Jul 16, 2009)

Oh mama, a big hug to you! My DS will be one this coming Monday and like yours have been sleeping worse compared to when he was younger. He used to nurse, pop off and turn away to sleep. I got a full night's rest that way but now, he would stay awake for up to 2 hours or more, crying, fussing, scratching, etc...

I've spent many nights crying in anger and resentment. I'm angry at him, angry at myself, and angry for being angry.

I started night weaning a few weeks ago without following anything really strict. He gave me a few 5-6 hour stretches and I was over the moon. But now... sigh... I'm too tired to even think. I'm thinking of using a pacifier... I've made it one whole year without and now I want to use it!









I feel like a failure. Like I've been too ignorant and naive. Most mums I know have babies who are sleeping through the night and can't believe that I'm still nursing that much. They think I'm dumb for co-sleeping and not using cio. DS is so separation sensitive that he would only be left with me or DH. We get no breaks and have no close family around to help.

So here you go mamas... my pity party! Yet there are so many things to be thankful for. Oh so many!!! His smiles, his laughter, his confidence, his soft huggable little body. A roof over my head, food on the table, husband who loves me, a God who has promised to never leave nor forsake me.

Thanks for reading and yes, we're not alone!


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

I'm with you. DD just turned one Sunday and my first thought was yes we can nightwean! Then the booger had to get sick so we're waiting until that's over. How are you going to do it?


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Great thread!

I (and my DH actually) get a lot of comfort from reading other's posts on here. Like PP, my DS was a pretty good sleeper until five months when we started on the 1-2 hour wakings. We've had some good stints over the last 4 months (well, a couple of days here and there) but there seems no rhyme or reason to why one night he does okay and the next is a wreck. I've tried elimination diets, I've tried NCSS, I've tried earlier bedtimes, later bedtimes, more naps, less naps etc etc!!!!

I have days when I'm depressed about it, and I don't use that word lightly. I've had nights when I've cried and cried and cried.

I just don't see how we could have done anything differently and from reading other posts, I think our babies probably have a lot in common. I have a moderately high needs baby who has done everything early - crawled by 5 months, 8 teeth by 7 months, he's about to walk now at 9 months. We co-sleep because our DS demanded it and we occasionally try the crib and it's an awful night.

I am resigned to thinking he just isn't ready to learn to sleep by himself yet (even though he used to!!).


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

I dont have a lot of time to post right now, but count me in!! We are having a really rough time right now with molars coming in.. not that we have ever had a good time with sleeping! on a normal night he wakes hourly.. I am tired. so so so tired.

But like a PP said, there are so many things to be thankful for.. He is a beautiful, smart, curious, active, confident, eager, exploring, sweet little boy and we are lucky he is ours. Just wanted to post a pic.. cuz.. I like to brag on my boy!!


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## coleybug (Jun 3, 2009)

Thanks mamas! I'm gettin' a warm and fuzzy feeling from this thread and I need it!









Catie, your son is adorable! It's so hard to be angry when we have so much to be grateful for, I know. I'll be back later, still at work!


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *coleybug* 
Plus we usually have an hour or so long wakeful period around 3.

Just re-reading the posts and we have often have this wakeful period at 3am too! What is it about 3am I wonder??


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

for you ladies!

As I am writing this she just woke up an hour after I put her down so I had to run in and nurse her quickly. I've got maybe another hour or 2 until the next one. sigh.

Our sleep issues also started at around 6 months old, she was a 2 time a night-er until then...sniff, those were the days...I also think our babies have a lot in common. DD is a medium-high needs who has done everything earlier than most. We should do a poll on that, or someone should study it or something!!









Luckily, we are not as bad as we have been. I guess this is actually good compared to a few months ago. She is still an hourly-2hourly waker right now and most of the time she will pop herself off and turn over. But we just hit 1 year on Saturday







and I'm ready for longer stretches and think she should be too. I am scared to night wean though, she gets maaaaad if I deny her 'na-na' when she still wants it. I have successfully told her "No more" randomly in the middle of the night and she has immediately turned over quietly...







but it doesn't always work and she will get worked up really quickly.

Then the other thing is, I am worried that she still needs to eat at night. I know they say she shouldn't at this age but she doesn't eat THAT much solids and she is a 'slender' little thing and I don't want her losing any weight or anything.

I hope we can all help each other in here, I get a lot out of reading others posts who are going through the same things.


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## coleybug (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:

I'm with you. DD just turned one Sunday and my first thought was yes we can nightwean! Then the booger had to get sick so we're waiting until that's over. How are you going to do it?
Gordon method. Modified as I need to. Do a search for Dr. Jay Gordon, it's a very gentle way and caters to co-sleeping families as well.









Quote:

Then the other thing is, I am worried that she still needs to eat at night. I know they say she shouldn't at this age but she doesn't eat THAT much solids and she is a 'slender' little thing and I don't want her losing any weight or anything.
DS is smaller too. And not big into solids. My problem is like reverse cycling. He's nursing soooo much at night that he's only drinking 9 or 10 oz during the day! So I'm hoping by cutting back at night, he will take in more during the day. I've read (and my ped agreed) that bulking them up during the day doesn't make them cut back at night. *Cutting back* at night makes them take more during the day.








for all of us! We are so strong, aren't we??? We are all doing a great job!







As I like to say at 3 am, "It won't be like this forever. You *will* sleep again."

I would say DS is medium needs&#8230;definitely clingier than my first DS. But unlike my first DS, he is not very verbal *at all*. Like I said, he will be one on the 24th and the only "word" he has is "ya-ya".









Anyway, dare I say last night was marginally better? Did he read this message board? Maybe he's worried b/c I said I'm gonna night wean!
The only difference last night was I gave him a half dose of Motrin for his teeth. He nursed to sleep and slept 2.5 hours.

I don't know what it is about the 3 am wake up. Last night was from about 3:20 to 4 am. Not bad compared to other nights.

In the last week I've decided to try to do some things for me to help&#8230;drinking lots more water, cutting out sugar/flour (as mentioned by hrsmom), taking my prenatals plus a Vit D supplement, probiotics, cutting almost all caffiene.

I've also discovered that DS is allergic to dairy. He breaks out in hives if he is given any dairy. I wonder if my dairy consumption affects him&#8230;I'm going to give up as dairy and see if it makes any difference.

At this point, I am still going to try to night wean starting Friday. Heck, a month ago he would not sleep in his crib at all, and now he starts out there for about 2 hours and sometimes ends up there after the 3 am wake up. Another mantra I learned here "It will never happen if I don't try."








mamas!


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

LeoneLover13 I'm so glad to see you're doing a bit better!! I was so worried about you. It sounded SO rough for you every 30 minutes, man that's tough.

Coleybug - we had a better night too! And the night before. Bizarre huh? He also napped for TWO hours this morning and he is the king of catnaps. I have NO idea what caused these changes. Maybe he was just exhausted? Actually, we gave him motrin about 5pm yesterday because he was so fussy and seemed in pain, maybe that helped? Maybe he's teething again? I can't see anything. It's such a guessing game isn't it?

Oh DS, how I love you, but why won't you sleep??!!


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## ommom (May 14, 2008)

hi louisep & everyone

not much to add; just wanted to say i'm following this thread. & will be listening in on the nightweaning stories. i'm gonna google Jay Gordon now.


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## MG01 (Nov 17, 2008)

i am a recent poster as such..

just wanted to let you all know i will be following this thread and hope we can support one another.

my son is 7.5 mos, is usually good natured but is having an awful sleep time the past few weeks. it has been up and down from birth through the past 6-7 mos, but this is a whole new level. he was usually getting at least one good 3-5 hour stretch in between 1 month of age and 6 mos of age, and now the _longest_ seems to be 1-2 hours.. and most days, no naps except in arms while in motion and attached to my breast, or am learning to do a woven wrap and the ergo back carry so i can at least do something like study without a big bulge hindering me in front, if my brain is functional enough (which it has not been lately, but what are you gonna do)

i have definitely gotten to that edge this past weekend where i literally threw all my son's cloth diapers and toys and things into a bunch of reusable grocery bags, put him in the carseat, and took him to grandma's for a night- i *never* thought i would do that with a babe his age, it felt like a failure, but i was out of options, and i realize logically it was healthier and safer for us both even though emotionally it is hard for me to think about, i know i got a good night's rest and he was safe with loving family members and that is okay, it has to be.

i ordered "no cry sleep solution" and it arrived today, have started trying to acclimate him to short playtimes/naptimes in the playpen so it is not associated with being a bad/sad place, and hope to start reading/implementing ncss. also ordered amber for teething as his toppers are starting to come in and i think that is a part of it. and since several friends have shared experience/concern with allergies or gut issues i have cut out the few solids i introduced. i noticed yesterday/today he is getting another awful yeast rash on his bum to top everything else off so i will be going back on the probiotics tonight or tomorrow, and him too, and hoping that little by little things improve.. but my schoolwork is definitely suffering as is my sanity. like louisep said, it's just a (majorly stressful) guessing game, but the past couple days, with additional help and slightly better nights, have given me enough sanity back to feel like i can start taking small steps towards implementing solutions and working on it at least..

i have been so lucky to have several friends and family really step up, as a solo parent i really needed (and continue to need it) now more than ever, i feel like everything is hitting really hard right now. i know logically it will get better but i feel sometimes like it will never end and like i just want to go hide somewhere and cry (and SLEEP for goddess sake).

i have today committed to reverse the bad habit i have created, where i stay up and waste time and let him sleep at the breast for hours on end simply because i so psychologically dread trying to set him down alone, or transfer both him and i into lying in our bed, and thus waking him and starting all over again.. but i have to do it.. which is why i am off to give it a go, cross your fingers, may be back in .4 seconds or less, this is attempt number two so far tonight but he did not nap today so i figure he is definitely tired and if i start early maybe will work before he gets too overtired?? i know have to keep trying. anyone have luck w/ sleep logs and/or food logs, finding patterns or causes, i think that is the basis of the ncss approach? or is it just a wait it out thing? i guess it varies, but would be nice to hear from those who have been there, although i think this thread should obviously serve as supporting one another and checking in too- but i for one would welcome additional opinions and ideas and solutions, here or maybe via pm, whatever seems preferable, on this whole freaking sleep thing. maybe i will start my own thread here on our specific issues so this one can stay a support thread, is that OP's intent? just lmk, don't want to take it over but this is new to me, whereas it sounds like some of you mamas have been dealing with this for a long time (please tell me it ends!? sometime? ever? lol)

hang in there mamas..







Off to try to get us into bed....


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

Thanks Louisep...it was really rough there for a few months. But hopefully that gives you all hope that it will get at least a little better!

Another thing they all seem to have in common is that they are all really hard teethers. DD gets in so much pain sometimes that even motrin won't help.

That is an interesting thought coleybug, it makes sense. DD doesn't eat that much during the day now it's a lot more at night. I guess "it'll never happen if I don't try"







I have been gently trying the jay gordon method. But a much slower progression. I'm just picking a few times a night where I tell her 'no more', or just don't give her the boob and she has been giving up after 30 seconds or so. But then she'll try again a few mins later. And I'm progressively doing it more and more each night until, hopefully, she won't ask for it anymore.

Love this thread already!


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Louisep* 
Just re-reading the posts and we have often have this wakeful period at 3am too! What is it about 3am I wonder??

We are up at 3 AM too! We should do a chat at 3 AM thread. Mine wakes up to poop about that time every night and then doesn't go back to sleep for a while. We were up last night from 4:30 til 6. DS was up at 7, so... not much sleep for us.

A friend recently told me when I asked about the 3 AM thing that babies KNOW that 3 AM is the time that everyone should be asleep. Some people go to bed at 2 AM, and some people are up at 4 AM for work, so 3 AM is the best time to universally disturb the family. It must be evolutionary.









Hugs to all you mamas who are sleep deprived. I'm right there with you. My DD has slept nominally better the last 3 nights, but I have been so worried about stuff going on with other things that I am not sleeping very well anyway. *Sigh* Someday we will all get a good night's rest. At least DD is cheery at 3 AM. DS was always screamy when he was up in the middle of the night.


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## MG01 (Nov 17, 2008)

Well that was a colossal failure. Started trying as my son was exhausted (no nap today, as sometimes happens) and fell asleep nursing around 8. Tried to put him down around 8:25, woke, nursed, posted here above, back in around maybe 9:30 my time to put him down, woke, nursed and walked, down again at 9:45. Finally, success. Slept for one hour 5 min. right next to him in the bed but not with him latched on which is a huge success in my book, and 10:50 he again woke, screaming, thrashing, nursing, stopping, latching unlatching, repositioning, I'd get him to sleep then he would scream again, nothing works. Repeat ad nauseum until 12:20, for an hour and a half doing this, and now we are just up because there was no point in trying anymore. Now he seems fine romping around, and I gave him a cold teething thingie from the fridge to chew but he didn't really want it, but he seemed _so_ uncomfortable in the bed!?

I am making a snack and contemplating what and whether to give him some sort of medicine for teething because I am thinking that is a part of this. I don' t think I really have anything in the house though and I don't want to drive to the 24 hour pharmacy so far away and sleep deprived.. so idk.

He also seemed like he was both cold/hot, because he gets sweaty really easily but then he was kinda chilly, like a cold sweat almost? I know that a mild fever can go with teething, and if he is anything like me he probably cannot regulate his temp very well, many a night I feel the same, so I had him loose in a onesie and socks to start, tried a tight warm swaddle, belly massage seemed to help some, wouldn't potty but passed some gas so I think his tummy is bothering him too since the belly massaging and pushing his legs up seemed to help, he actually fell asleep with me jiggling him and holding him down on the bed in the dark room with his legs pushed up like that, but I could only do that so long, so after 10-15 minutes of that I tried wedging a blanket around him to keep his legs somewhat in that position and he woke right up and screamed and thrashed some more. Seemed like he was exhausted and uncomfortable and just could not get comfortable or sleep normally. I cannot decide if he is fighting sleep or if sleep is fighting him and what all else is contributing to this, I don't know what to do.

I have to wake up in six and a half hours and I don't think I will be sleeping anytime soon, not looking forward to another day of insanity and feeling awful and drinking coffee with caffeine (which I had stopped drinking for over 2 years and through pregnancy and nursing, just the past few days it is my new habit, which I am sure is not helping matters)

It's like you can have one or two ok nights, 4-6 hours of decent sleep and think, ok I can do this, and one f'ing night like this throws you right back over that edge of resentment and lack of ability to function and second guessing everything.

so basically i got absolutely nothing done today and i need to sleep. does it have to be this hard?


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## MG01 (Nov 17, 2008)

and the thing that kills me is, even at the times in the past when we've had stages of frequent night waking, it hasn't been like this, it's been like, ok nurse groggily for 2 minutes and go back to sleep, not like need to get out of bed and pace and screaming baby and seeming like he is in pain or whatnot- it was like, i could deal with every hour or two wakings if they were like that, easy short wakings just to assure that mama was right next to him or for a quick sip of milk, but this is entirely different. *sigh*








to other mamas in this boat. its no fun.


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

Mama_Gaia-









I think we have all been there. That one night that just kills you and you don't think you can do it anymore, you're just done. Then they make it easier for a little while, build your spirits and tolerance back up just to knock it back down again a few days later.

IT WILL GET BETTER!

As far as what's going on with your LO, it definitely sounds like teething to me. Especially since it's only when he's in bed, that's what my DD does. The pain gets much worse when they lay down so I half dose her with motrin and lay her on her boppy to sleep, just so her head is slightly elevated.

Good luck today and tonight, I hope you have a better one!


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Hugs, Mama_Gaia. It sounds like teething to me too. The screaming, pacing, trying everything you can think of when your brain can't think of very much of anything sounds all too familiar to me. My DS was a miserable sleeper, and there were many nights where I wondered what the heck I was doing. It will get lots better, I promise.

Well, we were up at 6 again. I know it's not that early, but I had bad insomnia last night worrying about my DS and thinking about some other stuff. I am normally a very heavy sleeper and do not have any sleep problems, so I have no coping mechanism for insomnia. I just get angry, which makes me more awake







. DD woke up 4 times last night to pee and had to switch sides a few times before going back down. She was also clawing at my boob all night. Gotta cut those darn fingernails again! Up at 6 AM to poop. It's like clockwork. Oh well, at least it wasn't 4 AM to poop.

DS has been having some trouble sleeping lately, but DH is in with him, so I don't hear much about it, just that it was a bad/ok night. He just wakes up a lot before someone comes to bed with him, mostly.


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## coleybug (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama_Gaia* 
It's like you can have one or two ok nights, 4-6 hours of decent sleep and think, ok I can do this, and one f'ing night like this throws you right back over that edge of resentment and lack of ability to function and second guessing everything.

I was mulling this last night. Because I've had 2 decent nights, I feel so much better...able to formulate a plan...my stress level is low, not angry, not short tempered. I feel good about attempting to night wean this weekend b/c I feel like I have something in the "reserves". But one horrid night (like the night I had when I wrote the original post) and you are at the bottom again. I went back and reread my original post and I can *hear* the frustration and despair. I feel for you mama, because I *know* the despair and hopeless feeling. But I agree with LeoneLover13, might be teeth. My DS likes to chew on frozen binkies during the day. He won't take one at night, but during the day he seems soothed by them. I've also used Hylands with some improvement, but they are lactose based and I hesitate now that I've discovered DS has a dairy allergy. Have you ever tried Gripe Water? It's a ginger and fennel liquid that has stomach soothing properties. I used it with my first DS for colic and it helped. And keep telling yourself IT WILL NOT BE LIKE THIS FOREVER!!!

I wish I had advice for any of us. I feel like I have tried EVERYTHING with varying success. Teething tablets, Motrin, swaddling, not swaddling, white noise, yoga ball (huge success), Gripe Water, sleeping on me, sleeping in the crib, nightlight, dark room, etc...

I think my issue is DS wakes and can't go back to sleep alone. So he sits up and cries until I swoop in and either bounce (yoga ball) or nurse him back to sleep. I guess he's waking between sleep cycles? Why else would he wake every hour or two?


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## littlehoneybee (Jun 20, 2005)

Your son sounds like my DD. She just turned a year and is up every two hours at night as well. At three months she was sleeping six hour stretches and I thought that I finally had a kid who would sleep well. All that changed within a few weeks when she started teething. I give her Hyland's Teething tablets and gave her Tylenol one night, but it didn't make a difference.

On a good night I get one or two three hour stretches, but it's rare. I half heartedly started trying to night wean, but I'm not sure if it will make a difference given all the teething. Poor baby only has two teeth so we're going to be dealing with this for a long time I'm afraid. At least she does usually go right back to sleep after nursing.


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

Last night was a colossal, traumatizing failure and now I am swimming in guilt









I decided last night was the first of the next 4 to start nightweaning. I took parts of Jay Gordons method and was cutting out nursing from 11pm when I went to bed until 5/6am when DH gets home from working nights.
She went to bed at 830pm with a half dose of motrin because she is teething, woke at 915 to nurse back to sleep, and again at 11pm. She woke at midnight again and that was the one I decided to stop.
It was pure hell...she cried all the time we spent in the bed, anytime I laid down with her. As soon as I would get up and she was on my shoulder, she stopped, would fall asleep, the second I tried to lay her down se woke and cried and cried and cried. 10 mins into it I remembered someone post in here that you can't give in because then everything you just did affirms if they cry that long they will get what they want. So I spent the next hour and half refusing to give in, crying myself, rocking, walking bouncing, trying to lay down, shushing..she finally fell asleep from me shushing really loud next to her ear for 20 mins. But then she was tossing, turning, groaning, whining, crying and throwing herself all over the bed like she was incredibly uncomfortable...so I gave in...arg...she nursed for a few mins popped off and turned over, threw herself around a little and fell asleep.







She didn't wake again until after DH got home and I nursed her every few hours again.

Now I am experiencing so much guilt from making her go through so much and just giving in, or letting her cry so hard and all she needed was a quick nurse because she was hurting...and all I can think of is her raised stress levels last night and how she probably can't figure out what she did wrong and why I wouldn't let her nurse...









I don't know what to do now, if I should continue trying to wean, try something different, or just wait.

I am so sorry DD...


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

I don't think your DD will remember and she will be just fine. Don't beat yourself up.

I don't know anything about night weaning so defer to others (& maybe post a new thread?) but perhaps you need to shelve it for awhile? You said she is sleeping a bit better, so if you're feeling better too, maybe you can handle the night nursing a bit longer? Not sure, but just wanted to say try not to worry about last night.


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## coleybug (Jun 3, 2009)

Leone - this was my night exactly! Except I *wasn't* trying to NW yet!! I was letting him nurse all he wanted and he STILL did exactly what your DD did. Even the at same time...he was up from midnight to 2:10 am. He kept rolling around my bed, fussing, crying etc. Up on my shoulder he'd fall asleep in a minute or two, but the second I tried to put him down, whether on my bed or in his crib, he'd cry. I felt terrible b/c I was losing my patience after the first hour or so.









I guess what I am trying to say is that you didn't do any harm by trying to NW your DD. Gordon says they will be pretty ticked off the first couple of nights. Ticked, but not scared or hurt. You were there with her. She was not alone. Did you communicate to her that she could nurse later? I'm sorry, I don't remember how old you said your DD is. But let's back up a sec&#8230;does she normally nurse completely to sleep? If so then you "nurse her short" for a couple of nights. Don't let her fall completely asleep latched, KWIM? Take it slower. Or scrap it and try again in a month. And don't beat yourself up! It's going to get better, it has to!









I have intentions of beginning NW tonight, but I have a pinched nerve in my left shoulder today and I don't know if I can deal with the physical demand on my body tonight. I already told DH I was going to do it, and he's agreed to take DS tomorrow morning for a couple of hours so I can rest. I'm going to start a new thread about our NW adventure. How far I get, who knows!


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## Everrgreen (Feb 27, 2007)

I want to join!

My DS is almost 9 months and has never been a good sleeper. Just recently he has started sleeping for 2-3 hours in the evening which allows me time by myself. This is a huge accomplishment. Before this he would maybe sleep 30minutes and then he wouldn't go back to sleep so he'd just stay up until I went to bed. Through the rest of the night his chunks of sleep gradually get smaller as the morning approaches 3 hours, then 2, then every hour, until finally I give up and we get out of bed.

I don't usually get too angry at night. I've accepted that we will all sleep better if I just give in and nurse rather than try and fight it. (He's still too young to night wean - I may 'fight it' it a bit more when he's a year old). But the hardest part is hearing of other babies who sleep through the night. Which seems like every baby I know IRL. I get so angry and jealous. Which is awful, I know. Especially when they assume that our problems are due to cosleeping. Ugh...


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
I want to join!

My DS is almost 9 months and has never been a good sleeper. Just recently he has started sleeping for 2-3 hours in the evening which allows me time by myself. This is a huge accomplishment. Before this he would maybe sleep 30minutes and then he wouldn't go back to sleep so he'd just stay up until I went to bed. Through the rest of the night his chunks of sleep gradually get smaller as the morning approaches 3 hours, then 2, then every hour, until finally I give up and we get out of bed.

I don't usually get too angry at night. I've accepted that we will all sleep better if I just give in and nurse rather than try and fight it. (He's still too young to night wean - I may 'fight it' it a bit more when he's a year old). But the hardest part is hearing of other babies who sleep through the night. Which seems like every baby I know IRL. I get so angry and jealous. Which is awful, I know. Especially when they assume that our problems are due to cosleeping. Ugh...

Welcome! You sound just like me - except I rarely get the 2-3 hours up front anymore. We also get the decreasing amounts of sleep as the night goes on - I wonder what that is about.

And, oh my god, the jealousy thing of other babies and parents who can actually go out for the night and have a sitter. I just don't talk about sleep with them anymore and truly, I don't even socialize with many of those friends anymore. They don't get it and just offer insulting advice or give me pity I don't want. Sigh.

That's why this thread is so great! We know we're not alone and for us, these sleep patterns are normal and we'll all get through it. (Although as I just took an hour to get DS down for what is sure to be a 45 minute nap, I feel at my wits end!).


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## MG01 (Nov 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littlehoneybee* 

On a good night I get one or two three hour stretches, but it's rare. I half heartedly started trying to night wean, but I'm not sure if it will make a difference given all the teething. Poor baby only has two teeth so we're going to be dealing with this for a long time I'm afraid. At least she does usually go right back to sleep after nursing.

Yeah.. my son at 7.5 mos seems to young to nightwean entirely.. but I don't know.. he gets so angry/upset/sad that I can't not give him what he wants if I know that nursing will fix it (it won't always, he is still uncomfortable)

He also has only 2 teeth so out of 20 freaking teeth I am not optiminstic. Eeesh.


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## MG01 (Nov 17, 2008)

Leone- Hang in there- it is a process, one step forwards and two steps back it seems, but you just have to keep trying and do what you can tolerably do, and don't feel like a failure if you have to step back for a few days or even weeks and try again some other time. Hang in there!!









Well as for our night last night-- where to begin.. I took a prescribed benzodiazepine medication (valium) and i know it goes through breastmilk and causes sedation in babies at times (is that supposed to be bad?? i didn't think so.. his doc and my midwife both prescribed/ok'ed it for occasional use anyways, so if if that was a side benefit i am not complaining







) and whatever happened we actually both got some sleep. i cannot decide if that is good or bad. but i got around 5 1/2 hours of sleep which hallelujah i am happy with, at least as happy as i can be, i will take what i can get. i am sure you can all relate. after the night before i needed to not have another night from he!!

and our day-- unfortunately this morning a family friend came from 10-11:45 before she had to go to work p/t, to help out, and i wanted to take an hour nap but DS was being loud playing and the cats were scratching my bedroom door and i couldn't get comfortable so ended up reading more from NCSS and socializing with this long time family friend (I used to babysit her kids years ago!) which was nice although i am mad i did not get to nap).

Then, I had promised a friend who is very very pregnant, due shortly, and has a toddler too and a bunch of school stuff too, just a very full plate but also a very supportive husband, so I went to Whole Foods and brought her lunch and groceries and we caught up a bit (see, *I* am the sleep deprived insane one who needs help and I still cannot let go of my instinct to feel like I am supposed to be the one helping other people lol, but it was good, like I said last night was not awful I guess and I was happy to see her and help out and make sure she had good food, and I recall a now close friend (who I met on here! Yay MDC!) brought me groceries when I first brought B home from nicu, so I guess I paid it forward, since I had the afternoon free and a WF gift card to spend, though I probably should have used it for my own groceries, so it goes, it feels good to do what you can and i felt alright during the day today after a somewhat decent amt of sleep last night)

Then I was going to have a friend with a daughter close in age come over to trade off watching the babes so we could each have an hour or two to sleep/study and she flaked on me (hope she is ok, still have not been able to reach her, but i think she just flaked which sucked because i really needed to sleep and/or study and would liked for my son to have playtime w/ another kiddo and tire him out) and then my mom came over just as ds fell asleep nursing in my arms, so I put him down, and asked my mom to stay ten minutes following me setting him on the bed, because I had a feeling he wouldn't stay asleep, he rarely does, sucks sucks sucks, and she said no! and was all cranky and just left, and said call me if he wakes and i will come back... so of course he wakes 30 seconds after she pulls out of the lot, and I was not about to call her and make her drive back here again and be pissed at me (and him) and waste gas etc. so I didn't want to deal with that.. and so I tried nursing him down but he was awake then, so now we are up..

I really don't know, I am starting to feel all crying/frustrated/tired again and just want to nap, one or both of us, and I don't want to call my mom back for the third time (she tries stopping by once before since she was driving by and she missed us by like 5 minutes) and then the second time was when he fell asleep and I attempted to transfer him to the bed, I was going to join him as soon as I had a snack and of course the little (censored) aka loving sweet precious baby decided to wake and not go back to sleep. So. It is 6:30 and we are up. He never naps. Never. Except in sling/arms and I am trying to BREAK that habit. but I don't know if i should. Once you get to that breaking point/edge, it is so easy to get back to it, the littlest thing or one rough night or lack of nap or stressful situation and it is back to the insanity.

Is it true that the less sleep they get, the worse they sleep, and the less the continue to get, like slef-perpetuating cycle?? that if they don't get the sleep they need (like she says in NCSS, it can vary slightly but on average it is pretty close across the board) Because it says in the book that for 6 mos. they need 3-4 hours in naps and 12-13 hours at night and at 9 months they need 2 1/2-4 hours in naps and 11 1/2-12 1/2 at night or something like that (my son is right in the middle, 7.5 mos) and he has been getting like 5-8 hours at night average, and a lot of his sleep I am not sleeping which is where a big part of the issue lies too because I have to bounce/nurse/etc. to get him to sleep and then i dread trying to put him down and start at square one.. and not really napping either except brief in arms naps or in the car naps for anywhere from a few minutes to an hour, he has never been a napper though really as much, either he would take one really long nap (2-3 hours) or not nap at all except dozing in arms/in sling.. but this is insanity.

but yeah he gets nowhere near that amount listed in NCSS (and of course i get even less), and he does seem tired but just wakes right the frick up. See this is awful I am starting to feel awful again and last night was supposed to be a "good" night, I guess i should be grateful for that compared to what it could be.

I do not want to introduce any new allergens and we are vegan so do not want to try the teething tablets, but are there any other teething remedies i could/should try that might help and then i could at least see if that made a difference or rule that out? i think that is a part of it at least, as some of you are saying, i just don't know why it affects him so much at sleep/night and not when he is playing or whatnot, maybe because there is no other stimuli to distract him? I do think it could play a big part in it.

i do think a lot of it is also gut too- his rash has cleared (chin/face rash/eczema)and the yeast (bottom/scrotum) is almost gone, since cutting out solids (although honestly it is not like we were doing solids daily, we were doing mostly baby-led weaning, whole fruits and veggies, and he didn't seem to even eat much, like maybe a teaspoon or two of whatever, mostly peaches and yams, a little bit of banana and avocado and whole wheat bread crumb to taste but really just played with it, and watermelon, but just played with that and licked it.. idk. But also we switched to sposies for a couple days now until I can disinfect his cloth diaper stash from yeast, and have been using the Diaper Rash and Thrush cream from mother love like i said so i don't know if just that is clearing it or if it is the solids or something in my milk and the other issues are just now making the issue known?? so confused, keep second guessing and i don't know how i will ever know what is right/true or how to fix it.

I may have to look into more allergy info i guess.. Because his EC has suffered, he basically never pooped his diapers before and the other night he was up from 3-5 am, pooped 3 diapers and pottied/pooped in his potty a bit too and seemed super uncomfortable, and it is seeming like there are green stringy things in there on occasion but i cannot figure out a pattern, and the smell is becoming really strong and offensive where it was mild before, and thicker consistency, and i had a friend look at a poop (haha i know, she is great for putting up with such things) and she said it was not normal in her experience and the color seemed greenish tinged/off and there was some mucous) but being my 1st kid i had nothing to compare too except knowing it was different than his prior poops.. but then he also went thru a phase where he had really really foamy airy poops which cannot be good either but not for some time, i just don't know, no rhyme or reason, i just want him not to be in pain and to SLEEP for goddess sake).. but yeah like i said too some of this is just exacerbated but not new entirely, yeast for example, he had his 1st yeast infection within his first few weeks, and i no longer use their chemically prescriptions as the mother love salve works much better and seems much healthier for his sensitive regions without all the chems, but i need to figure out doth what do do in the long term and also what is causing this in the short term, the past say 3 weeks, although he has never been a great sleeper, he at least had nights where he would go reasonably long stretches or without needing constant motion/constant/nursing.. i do think the contant nursing is not hunger or milk supply but relieving the pressure from teething so i think i do need to address that..

anyway, just brainstorming out loud, blabbing and trying to get these scattered thoughts in writing, maybe just for me to make some coherent sense of them or have a record of them before i forget (NCSS is all about keeping diaries of babies sleep patterns from what i have ascertained thus far) if others have input or can benefit from some of these ideas being thrown around then that is cool too..

i want to go to sleep (don;t we all!!) hang in there mamas and keep us posted, here's wishing all the mamas with sleep issues, and the babes too, a comfortable and restful night, making some sort of progress...

i will also keep you all posted on NCSS, as i read it and maybe implement the strategies.. but if this is not simple habits or sleep problems and there are physical pains underlying it which i think is at least part of it i have to start there. i have thought of calling his doctor but am ambivalent--

have any of you talked to docs about sleep issues or other issues? at least the health issues i would bring up, and the impact on sleep lately? he is a family practice doc, i really do like and trust him, but unsure where that could lead and don't need one more piece of chaos in this puzzle...


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Just a couple of quick answers - yes, I do believe in the baby needs sleep to be able to sleep rule. Which sucks for all of us! Do you think your baby only gets a maximum of 8 hours sleep a night? I bet he gets more than that.

Also, I wanted to say it's definitely worth ruling out medical causes. Look on the allergy forum for elimination diets. They're hard to do. In the end, I stuck just to the least allergenic foods - you can find a list on Dr Sears website. It didn't help sleep but my DS is allergic to dairy. It may help you so worth a go! It is tough though.

Kudos to you mama, I have no idea how you manage to study at all.

PS My Pedi is useless with the sleep thing - she told me to keep the room dark and quiet - duh!


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## coleybug (Jun 3, 2009)

My DS only napped in the carrier or in arms until 10 months or so. Don't fight it if that what works. Now at almost 12 months he will nap in the crib or on the sofa.

I agree with Louisep about allergies. Worth looking into.

There are other teething products that you could try. Hylands makes a gel that is not lactose based. I'm going to try Boirons Camilia liquid.

Hang in their mama. This shall pass!


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Mama_Gaia, look into the food allergies, but I know blips in EC and rashes are both common symptoms of teething.

We had the most awesome night last night (sarcasm). DD wouldn't go down alone (this is her MO these days, about 2 mo now of not getting one. single. second without SOMEONE needing me) and she didn't get asleep "enough" for me to move to the bed and stop rocking and craning my neck at the computer until about 11:30. She woke up 4-5 times before 2:30 when she was up for good until 4 fing AM. She went back to sleep until 7:30, when DS, who had gone to bed at 10:30 the night before, came and jumped on us in our bed.

Luckily for me, however, my insomnia has faded since we're getting the ball rolling on some of DS's issues that I have been worrying myself sick over. Today was an all around better day and I don't feel as tired, even though I should. Weird, huh?

Right now we're at it again though. DD went down at 6:45, DS at 7, DD woke up just as I left the room putting DS down, then we rocked in the chair long enough for her to go to sleep, just in time for DS to wake up to pee. Now she is up for good. Probably another 9:30-10:00 bedtime for her, hoping that DS doesn't wake up anymore.

It is DH's "night off", of which I am supposed to get 2 to his 1 since the kids have been so needy lately. What usually ends up happening is that both kids decide that they will be little terrors when I have planned my time off and the whole thing gets rescheduled so that I can miss it again next week. I need a break.

Leone, sorry to hear about the NW failure. I'm pretty sure your DD is fine. We NW DS at 19 mo, but it absolutely would never have worked if I hadn't gotten him used to the idea that he could actually achieve sleep without nursing. That meant learning to go to sleep initially without nursing. We rocked and sang songs and bounced, etc., and he cried some, but it wasn't so horrible. After we did that for, I think, 3 weeks, I started working on cutting out the nighttime nursing. It's all a little blurry to me because I was pregnant at the time and feeling absolutely desperate because my nipples were on fire when he nursed.

*Sigh*, looks like DD might be ready for bed sooner.


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## Writerbird (Jun 1, 2007)

I'm just posting in here to say the 20 month old at my feet wakes up every two hours. Eight months ago it was every four. I don't get a lot of help IRL, except from one friend whose son is like mine. The pediatrician says he should have been STTN since he weighed ten pounds. My SIL's perfect baby has been STTN since he was six months old and is so mellow that my SIL started trying for her second as soon as he was a year old.

Me, I just sold my boy's baby things at a consignment sale so that if I ever do start sleeping again, I won't be tempted to think it "wasn't that bad."

But...

I will say that I know I am not alone. It helps, sometimes.

Also: My son is a terrible sleeper, but he puts away his own laundry (no, really, I don't help at all after I fold everything), wipes up his high chair after he eats, and builds wonderful things from blocks. His fine motor control regularly astounds people.

I'm not making sense because I have not slept since I was six months pregnant. I'm trying to say the thing I cling to is that there are things our babies do better than anyone else's.

We just didn't happen to get sleepers.

If anyone actually manages to night wean, let the rest of us know


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## MG01 (Nov 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Louisep* 

And, oh my god, the jealousy thing of other babies and parents who can actually go out for the night and have a sitter. I just don't talk about sleep with them anymore and truly, I don't even socialize with many of those friends anymore. They don't get it and just offer insulting advice or give me pity I don't want. Sigh.

That's why this thread is so great! We know we're not alone and for us, these sleep patterns are normal and we'll all get through it. (Although as I just took an hour to get DS down for what is sure to be a 45 minute nap, I feel at my wits end!).

Uhhh yeah. Maybe that is why I have been avoiding all my mom/baby groups and various events where I would otherwise be socializing with those mamas. I thought it was just the weather getting cold and me being tired/lazy/apathetic, but some of it is that I hardly have anything in common (it feels) with the moms who are actually happy and functional right now, I don;t want to hear/see about it. *sigh* That's pretty pitiful of me, huh?

I know it doesn't help us to isolate ourselves.. but we do have someone coming over at least once a day lately, have ramped up the friends and family list and they have really stepped up, so I do have one (or two) on one support from mamas who may have already survived this stage.. It would be nice to have a friend with a babe my son's age though, I had (have, lol, I guess I am not allowed to be that apathetic today) one close friend with a babe a couple weeks older, but she has gone through a lot of changes (considering a split from living with her partner even though they'd still be co-parenting and working on their relationship, going back to school) so I get that we all have our issues, but I feel like I have been the one to help her out all the time, from lining her up with a doula for free and teaching her about natural birth (which she was sooo happy with) to supporting in her nursing and pumping at work when she had to go back for a bit, to offering to co-op and trade off so we can both get our studying done, I have gone and dragged her out of her house when she was ignoring her phone in the throes of teething and PPD and I was worried about her and in the end she thanked me for that, I have brought her food, I mean, I just want to feel like people are somewhat reliable (and maybe I am overly sensitive to this issue because 1) i am sleep deprived, that'll make you oversensitive to anything, and 2) ds' biological "father" has pulled all sorts of unreliable back and forth sh!t on me during pregnancy and now, and I know that ultimately my son will be the one bearing the brunt of that and it PISSES ME OFF AND HURTS because i cannot protect him (legally, in my state, and emotionally) there have been family members and a close friend whose kiddos are now teens who have really stepped up, and one mama with younger kids, who has actually been reliable, but then i feel like, she won't let me pay her (which i can hardly afford, so in a way that is good for me but i still feel like a piece of crap) and it's like, i know that she and her dh are both able to mostly work from home or she sahm and that they parent well together and it's not a huge thing but still, her being here with me lately IS taking her from her kids and i don't want to feel responsible for that. it's like, screwed if you do screwed if you don't. i don't know if i am making any sense (another one of those nights- actually, DS slept great and i am the one who didn't for once, how f'ing lovely/ironic is that...) but i feel guilty for accepting help from those who can and want to, and then pissed off at the people who offer to help and then don't show or back out for stupid reasons. maybe i just need not to overanalyze things when i am this incoherent and sleep deprived. thank you to thread for being a place where other mamas, if anyone, might somewhat understand where i am at. i just cannot believe that MY SON slept for 9 hours straight, i mean he was attached to the boob for 9 hours but still he was awake and comfortable and not thrashing or crying.. and then i didn't get any real/good sleep and i feel more tired than when i went to bed. oh the f'ing irony.


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## heavensearth (Oct 10, 2009)

I am so happy to have found this thread! Actually, I found it last night while my beautiful DS was screaming/crying







My son is almost 10 months old and we still swaddle him, he loves it! we also hold/rock him to sleep for his naps and bedtime - it works for us.. or it used to.

The last couple of nights have been awful! He used to sleep from about 9-3:30/4am wake up to bf and then get rocked to sleep again, usually in under 30 mins, then sleep until 8am. Last night I couldn't get him to sleep until 11 (had been trying for 3 hours!) then he woke up at 2, 4, 8:45... He has 8 teeth but by the way he chews his thumb it looks like another tooth could be coming in (we give him teething tabs and Tylenol but that didn't even work the last couple of nights). I ended up putting him in his crib because I was exhausted/frustrated and he cried and cried and of course I cried too! I picked him up and rock him some more, eventually he feel asleep. I feel like Ive tried everything, I even went out and bought him that aquarium that attach's to the crib to sooth him! (we try not to have plastic battery operated toys here..) he has a womb bear too!

I don't understand what has happened?! Could it be a growth spurt? maybe he's in too much pain and the Tylenol isn't working?

I'm so worried that this wont go away and that he'll be like this when I go back to work in December







My DH works evenings so I'm battling him 5 nights a week on my own..

The one thing that was a relief was reading all of your posts last night and seeing that I'm not alone


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## BaMo (Mar 19, 2006)

Another sleep deprived mama joining in!

DS is almost 16 months old & has never been a "good sleeper." He has gone through periods where he has slept for about 5 hours straight (although he hasn't done that in months).

Up until a month ago, I could always get him to go back to sleep by nursing. But now he will wake up, screaming and won't go back to sleep for at least 2-3 hours. I can get him back to sleep, but the second I put him down, he wakes up. So either I nurse, rock, bounce or pat and then repeat until he finally stays asleep. It is so frustrating.

I know that he is teething, but other than that I can't figure out why he will stay asleep for 3-4 hours and then be up for 2-3 hours.

DS is our first, I really want more children but this not sleeping thing is killing me. My brain is mush, I have no energy and I'm always tired.

I have mentioned this to our ped. She had no advice as her own son is 5 and still gets up at night sometimes. She said that her son didn't STTN until he was 2.


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## heavensearth (Oct 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BaMo* 
Another sleep deprived mama joining in!

DS is almost 16 months old & has never been a "good sleeper." He has gone through periods where he has slept for about 5 hours straight (although he hasn't done that in months).

Up until a month ago, I could always get him to go back to sleep by nursing. But now he will wake up, screaming and won't go back to sleep for at least 2-3 hours. I can get him back to sleep, but the second I put him down, he wakes up. So either I nurse, rock, bounce or pat and then repeat until he finally stays asleep. It is so frustrating.

I know that he is teething, but other than that I can't figure out why he will stay asleep for 3-4 hours and then be up for 2-3 hours.

DS is our first, I really want more children but this not sleeping thing is killing me. My brain is mush, I have no energy and I'm always tired.

I have mentioned this to our ped. She had no advice as her own son is 5 and still gets up at night sometimes. She said that her son didn't STTN until he was 2.

I have no advice because we're in the same boat, but I thought I would give you a







Maybe tonight will be a good night!


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## LeaAline (Oct 21, 2007)

So nice to read of other mothers who are having similar issues.

DS is 10+ months old. He naps ok, usually 2 naps, 1-2 hours each.

I read NCSS and started a bedtime routine and earlier bedtime and so he's in bed by 7:30 each night (in his own crib).

Then, he wakes about every 2-3 hours (or more frequently) through the night. I try to put him back in his crib, but I'd say 80% of the time, we wake up together in my bed. I'd really love it for him to sleep through the night again, but he's a little guy and I was worried about him getting enough. He also only takes <10 oz. during the day when I work (who knows when I'm home nursing). So, I'm sure at one point he was reverse cycling... when can I night wean? checking out Dr. Gordon now


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

So much to say but nak bc I'm in bed prematurely AGAIN as DS won't stay asleep without me. For months even though he work every 1-2 hours once I was in bed he would at least stay asleep for 2-3 hours after I put him down. That me time is so important to recharge when your LO is attached 22 hours a day you know? So for weeks now we haven't had it. He sleeps through one sleep cycle and wakes up. He may stay down for another sleep cycle if I'm lucky. It's not even like I'm his transitional object since DH is having increasing success at putting him down at night. OMG this is amazing btw (DH), MAJOR breakthrough. He's even on occasion put him down AWAKE!!

So there are some good things happening but he's also not sleeping without me in bed. Any thoughts? It's not asking much to have two hours to myself a day I don't think. Sigh.

Also as the PP said, I am so sad that this sleep deprivation makes me question having another child. I so want another but not sure I can do this again unless it miraculousy changes.

Sorry for any typos - nak thumb typing in a dark room!


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeaAline* 
So nice to read of other mothers who are having similar issues.

DS is 10+ months old. He naps ok, usually 2 naps, 1-2 hours each.

I read NCSS and started a bedtime routine and earlier bedtime and so he's in bed by 7:30 each night (in his own crib).

Then, he wakes about every 2-3 hours (or more frequently) through the night. I try to put him back in his crib, but I'd say 80% of the time, we wake up together in my bed. I'd really love it for him to sleep through the night again, but he's a little guy and I was worried about him getting enough. He also only takes <10 oz. during the day when I work (who knows when I'm home nursing). So, I'm sure at one point he was reverse cycling... when can I night wean? checking out Dr. Gordon now

I know it's all relative, but boy would I like my DS to sleep like your LO! I bet he is reverse cycling and catching up at night. I don't know much about weaning yet. Good luck!


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

Me again...

Thank you to all the Mama's giving me hugs and advice from my last post. I gave up on the NWing for now, it was too exhausting and traumatic for both of us. I'm just giving in to her sleep arrangement for now, she is nursing constantly all night right now, more than usual which I am attributing to teething so all I can do is help her feel better.

As far as allergies go, I have worked on that since she was born and determined she was/is allergic to cow milk protein and have avoided all dairy and soy since she was 3 months old. Just now I am starting to reintroduce it into my system again and she is doing fine with it. I try my best not to go to the Dr. because I'm on a Military base and they are not very accepting of my parenting choices.

And btw, the jealously issue kills me...I don't really have any moms IRL going through the same thing as me, I have some crunchy friends who understand my choices but they have not been through it. But the rest of them are mainstream and I don't even bring it up with them because I know their reactions/advice. One of the big reasons I wanted to NW is because for Xmas we are going to Hawaii to see my in laws and it might be the only chance in the next 3/4 years that DH and I get to go to out alone, but I guess we can maybe get an hour or 2 for lunch even if she's not NW'd yet.

Good luck for everyone tonight!!


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## MG01 (Nov 17, 2008)

well another night oh man.. up and down every half hour to forty minutes.. nak and bouncing at the keyboard craning my neck as we speak.. i know there are others out there (depending on time zone, it's around 2 am here) have to get up in 5 hours.. today i just cried and raged for hours (so did ds) i never thought one could feel this awful but it helps somewhat to know i am not alone, misery loves company i guess.
grandma watched ds while i got a good 2.5 hour nap if it weren't for that i dont know what i would do.. thank hte universe for naps and for grandmothers.. but some aspects of our relationship are so unhealthy, i dont know how this will progress as ds becomes older and more aware of these aspects of our relationship and interactions, not to mention those with his bio-fether.. but one thing at a time i guess, just focus on the sleep.. i just have to keep up with ncss and see what works- been doing the logs, at least as much as i can with sleep deprivation and my awful memory) and he seems to be getting better at being set down but he wakes right up, the longest sleep intervals seems to be insanely short, average 30-45 minutes, longest maybe 1.5-2 hours.. ugh.

good luck mamas, keep in touch.


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## pumpkinseed (Aug 6, 2005)

Me, me-i want to join









My dh says that dd2 is the "worst sleeper in the history of babies"...that is my criteria for joining you guys









DD2 is 16 months and takes around an hour and a half to 2 hours to go to sleep. Its getting worse this past month and I have no idea why. She wakes up every few hours-I dance if I get 3.5 straight-its typically around every 2-3. She does the up for a few hours at a time during the night thing as well.

The one thing that has changed though in recent weeks is that she is napping wonderfully-I used to have to fight both naps and night-but I can actually get her down for a nap in about 10 minutes







So at least I am a little less stressed.

I don't think all of this would be so horrible-but I also have an almost 5 yr old dd who is always on the go-so I have no time to sleep during the day-and feel horrible when I have to "neglect" my 5 yo in order to be able to get my littlest one to sleep. My dh has fully taken over 5 yo bedtime-I miss putting her to sleep







She sleeps on her own-I just miss the snuggling and the reading and the stories she tells me at night-those of you with older kids also realize how much you learn about your child's day in the "dark of the night"-when you are laying there in the dark just chatting. Its so sweet. And I miss it horribly.


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

So, we're here again at 3 AM.

DD is doing her business on her potty. I can't believe that she wakes up EVERY FREAKING NIGHT to poop at 3 AM on the dot. There has GOT to be some way to get past that.

Oy, I'm exhausted. Last night she was up at 3 and didn't go back down until 6 AM. I fell asleep in the chair with her and had a horrible dream that woke me up with the worst crick in my neck. When I took her upstairs, she slept for 40 more min and then was up for the day.

DH came home over his lunch to try to give me a nap, but it seems that I am completely unable to sleep without a nursing baby next to me. Seriously, she is MY lovey. I was completely and utterly exhausted, and I still couldn't sleep. This is ridiculous!!!

Hopefully she will go back to sleep this time right when she's done.


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## vtcountrymama (Aug 27, 2009)

"but it seems that I am completely unable to sleep without a nursing baby next to me. Seriously, she is MY lovey. I was completely and utterly exhausted, and I still couldn't sleep. This is ridiculous!!!"

I feel the same way! It seems crazy, but I just can't fall asleep without DD nursing. If I nurse her to sleep and get up, when I return to bed, I have to wait for her to wake up and nurse again to fall asleep.

Anyway, I've been reading all these posts today, because last night was dreadful! We co-sleep, and DH sleeps in another room. DD will be one y/o in 2 weeks. Last night, she wanted to nurse all night long!! I only nurse off one side, so the whole side of my body was sore from laying on it all night. When we got up this morning, I said to DH that we were going to start NW. Then today, I realized that DD's teeth are bothering her. She's been chewing her finger, the cupboards...so, I'm a bit relieved to have reached the decision that we don't have to start NW, and that this will pass. I just have my fingers crossed that tonight will be better.


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## csrabine (Jul 12, 2005)

Oh mamas, I am totally with you on this one... When he was an infant, I thought that I lucked out and that DS would be a good sleeper... He would regularly sleep 4-5 hour stretches at night from about 1 month to about 4 months. Then from about 4 months on (right about after the darned teeth started coming in), it went progressively downhill. Now he wakes at LEAST every hour (wanting boob), with the last part of the night (from 3 am on) being more like every 1/2 hour. I am SO tired, and it is SO difficult because I also work full-time. I am a total zombie and some days I wonder if I'll ever be normal again! DD was actually worse than DS, though (if you can imagine that), so I keep reminding myself that it could be worse... Someday when I find the energy I will attempt to night-wean (DS is 15 1/2 months and does not have boob during the day) and see if that will help, but I am so tired I don't even have the energy to try something different, KWIM? Glad to know that I'm not the only one with a crazy non-sleeper! Good luck mamas!


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

This is where I think I heard the term "mombie" (mom + zombie). It totally describes me.

Last night was actually AMAZINGLY GOOD, if you count amazingly good as having to get up 6+ times. At least she didn't wake up at 3 AM to poop and I got to stay in bed all night. I did take her to pee twice when she didn't actually have to, but oh well. I feel like a million bucks!

Hope you other mamas are doing well too.


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## coleybug (Jun 3, 2009)

You know, I don't want to "jinx" myself, so lets just say things are







right now...

I feel like there is progress. Monday night he slept almost 5 hours.







He hasn't done that in months. And last night he slept over 3 hours in the beginning of the night, usually it's 2 max. I put him down 30 minutes earlier than usual. I'm going to try 15 more minutes early tonight.

Keep plugging away mamas...it's got to get better sometime!!!


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## BaMo (Mar 19, 2006)

Last night by far was the worst night we have ever experienced. The only plus side was DH was home so that at least he could help out. DS woke up at 10:30 and we couldn't get him to go back to sleep until 4 am.









We did everything that we could think of to get him to go back to sleep. He would not stop hysterically crying.

I never thought that I would miss the days when he was up 6x a night but I could at least get him to go back to sleep by nursing.

I just don't know how much more of this I can take.


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BaMo* 
Last night by far was the worst night we have ever experienced. The only plus side was DH was home so that at least he could help out. DS woke up at 10:30 and we couldn't get him to go back to sleep until 4 am.









We did everything that we could think of to get him to go back to sleep. He would not stop hysterically crying.

I never thought that I would miss the days when he was up 6x a night but I could at least get him to go back to sleep by nursing.

I just don't know how much more of this I can take.



















Hang in there, Mama. We're all here with you!


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

It was a really bad one last night. I thought it would be good since DS stayed asleep for 2 hours after I put him down. He woke at 8:30pm, I nursed him. He woke at 9:45pm hysterically crying. Since he'd just nursed I figured he wasn't hungry and he's not much of a comfort nurser so I just tried cuddling him but he kept pushing me away. Eventually I put the light on and he wouldn't open his eyes as if he were still asleep. Finally he opened his eyes and grew calm. What was that all about?

The rest of the night he tossed and turned and was up every hour. I just nursed him back down every time.

I would have said he's teething but I can't see any signs of new teeth. He keeps pulling at his ears and the back of his head though.

I don't have the mental or physical energy for today. I feel awful, but I would give anything to trade places with DH and go to work for the day.


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Louisep* 
It was a really bad one last night. I thought it would be good since DS stayed asleep for 2 hours after I put him down. He woke at 8:30pm, I nursed him. He woke at 9:45pm hysterically crying. Since he'd just nursed I figured he wasn't hungry and he's not much of a comfort nurser so I just tried cuddling him but he kept pushing me away. Eventually I put the light on and he wouldn't open his eyes as if he were still asleep. Finally he opened his eyes and grew calm. What was that all about?

The rest of the night he tossed and turned and was up every hour. I just nursed him back down every time.

I would have said he's teething but I can't see any signs of new teeth. He keeps pulling at his ears and the back of his head though.

I don't have the mental or physical energy for today. I feel awful, but I would give anything to trade places with DH and go to work for the day.

If he's pulling at his little ears I would worry about an ear infection.
Sorry about your horrible night. We've been up all night here too. So tired.


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Louisep* 
It was a really bad one last night. I thought it would be good since DS stayed asleep for 2 hours after I put him down. He woke at 8:30pm, I nursed him. He woke at 9:45pm hysterically crying. Since he'd just nursed I figured he wasn't hungry and he's not much of a comfort nurser so I just tried cuddling him but he kept pushing me away. Eventually I put the light on and he wouldn't open his eyes as if he were still asleep. Finally he opened his eyes and grew calm. What was that all about?

The rest of the night he tossed and turned and was up every hour. I just nursed him back down every time.

I would have said he's teething but I can't see any signs of new teeth. He keeps pulling at his ears and the back of his head though.

I don't have the mental or physical energy for today. I feel awful, but I would give anything to trade places with DH and go to work for the day.

Sounds like ear infection, or drainage from a previous cold. Also, that waking hysterical thing sounds a little like a night terror. DS had some around 1ish because his sleep was so out of whack. When he started getting better rest (and more regularly), they went away.










I don't think I would trade places with DH right now. He is just as sleep deprived as I am. DS is not sleeping well at all and we are just not figuring out what's going on. He's in the evaluation process for his sensory issues, but still no answers yet. He just can't seem to let go at night, and he tosses and turns all night long. Every little thing wakes him. Our doc recommended some melatonin, but I'm a little wary. We might try it to see if it drastically helps.

DD actually slept pretty well last night, not so well the night before. She's really really really about to start crawling, so she's burning off more energy during the day.


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## Funny Face (Dec 7, 2006)

Hi, my name is Funny Face and my 10 mo. old son is a terrible sleeper! He's never slept well. He has just gotten to where he goes down for a nap more easily (most of the time) but night time and all night are just a nightmare.







I can't think, I have no short term memory, I can't focus on anything, I run into things, knock things over, injure myself accidentally _constantly_. I feel like a shell of a human being many days. I've also officially lost my mind because I actually have baby fever right now while alternately just wishing I was dead.









STTN is not even on my radar. It seems a ridiculous thing to even wish for... I'd settle for 3 hour stretches, toss in a 4 hour if you want me to be overjoyed.

I wish people would stop telling me to feed him lots of baby food to 'fill him up so he's not hungry at night'.







I don't even want to night wean, he doesn't seem to want to eat every time he wakes up so less eating isn't event he issue, I don't think.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeoneLover13* 
Now I am experiencing so much guilt from making her go through so much and just giving in, or letting her cry so hard and all she needed was a quick nurse because she was hurting...and all I can think of is her raised stress levels last night and how she probably can't figure out what she did wrong and why I wouldn't let her nurse...

















This is why I haven't tried to nightwean at all, I think this is exactly what would happen with ds.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
But the hardest part is hearing of other babies who sleep through the night. Which seems like every baby I know IRL. I get so angry and jealous. Which is awful, I know. Especially when they assume that our problems are due to cosleeping. Ugh...

I don't even talk to people about our sleep issues because they too blame it entirely on cosleeping.







I also want to vomit on people who don't know what it's like to have a baby that doesn't sleep. "She just gradually started STTN on her own







." uke

I have to say that I think I feel worse for those of you whose baby slept well early on or who have had tastes of what good sleep feels like. Ds had a 3 hour stretch a few times in his life and I would wake up thinking we're making progress and then remain depressed and pissed off for DAYS when he reverts back to his old ways the very next night.

There are nights where I think "I can't do this anymore. I hate my life!" and I just want to run away! The scary thing is to think 'What if my next baby is even _worse_ at sleeping?!'
















s to all you mamas. I was so happy to find you all!


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Funny Face* 
I also want to vomit on people who don't know what it's like to have a baby that doesn't sleep. "She just gradually started STTN on her own







." uke

I love it! You totally cheered me up with this! I had to laugh. You express perfectly how I feel about this. And I totally agree about the food thing.

So, I made it through the day. It was better than I hoped. And once again we're nearing night time and I have such stupid optimism that tonight will be the night! Duh.


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

LMAO Funny Face...

I don't even talk to people about our sleep issues because they too blame it entirely on cosleeping. I also want to vomit on people who don't know what it's like to have a baby that doesn't sleep. "She just gradually started STTN on her own ."

That made my day also. And my day was pretty crappy.

Louisep and BaMo I am sorry to hear that you are having hard times right now, I will jump on that wagon right along with you though









Teething SUCKS. It never, ever seems to end and when it's bad it's horrific. DD has been waking every 30 mins again the past 3 nights due to those little a-holes in her mouth. Motrin barely works, teething tablets are a joke, the only way to possibly help is a boob. And even that doesn't work half the time.

Last night SUCKED. She was out on our walk and stayed asleep at 8pm.Woke every 30-60 mins for me to nurse, shh, pat to sleep whilst she threw herself around the bed. The only thing that seems to help her is laying her on a pillow or boppy with her head hanging off it. Seems like that would make it worse to me, but it's the only way proven to work so far.
DH and I went to bed around 11pm and were messing around and giggling and were about to go to the other room to...ahem...when she stood up wide awake! #@&*!?~#$*&^

So then DH gave up and passed out whilst I spent the next 2 hours trying to get her back to sleep. Sweet.

I'm just praying this will end soon, because it most definitely goes in cycles, so it HAS to get better soon.

Good luck Mamas!!


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

If only it were teething for us. DS got 8 teeth by 7 months but nothing since.

We are now in new territory. The last 2 nights he has tossed and turned waking every 20 mins to an hour. We've not had this before. Last night he didn't cry. He needs physical pressure on him to stay asleep or to be pressed right up against me. The second I fall asleep and slacken he's awake.

It's just happened for his nap.

Another thing, he's having bad dreams & night terrors. WTH?

The irony is his sleep has gotten worse since he started putting himself to sleep. All the books say that's the secret to STTN.

Have a docs appoinment this AM to rule out an ear infection. I'm going to plead with him to take our sleep issues seriously. Usually they dismiss it. Not that they will have an answer.

I can deal with this for a few more months but I can't deal with much more. I'm a shell of my former self and like PP, I wanted more kids but now I'm terrified of a repeat.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

So the pedi said DS has four molars coming through! I'll sleep when I'm dead??!!

Poor little guy. Like Leonelover13, teething aids don't work for us, not even motrin.


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## go_blue (Oct 21, 2009)

Thanks for starting this thread. I need to share, to help me see things more clearly (writing and sharing with others makes me more honest with myself and allows me to view the situation a little more objectively). I can empathize with some of you, and others make me feel like my situation is not so bad...

My Situation...
DD is approaching 2. She has never STTN. Best case was 5-6 hours about 2 or 3 nights when she was about 7 weeks old. Normal for us is first stretch of sleep for 3 hours at night, then wake to nurse every 1-2 hours. Often there is a marathon from 12-2 when she is latched on the whole time and I am too tired to latch her off. I sleep with DD in her bed. On bad nights she is latched on almost all night (typically when sick or intense teething). Luckily for me, she does nap daily and she is seldom wide awake in the middle of the night, and it does not take an unreasonable amount of time for her to fall asleep each night (30 min on average).

I agree that teething feels like a cause for the frequent night feedings and comfort-seeking. Too bad for us that DD started teething around 4 months, but her first teeth didn't break until 10 months. Now she is on to the 2-year molars. Please tell me that I am getting near the end of teething. Before I became a parent, I never realized that teething would last so long, nor did I realize how much work it would be to get my daughter to sleep and keep her to sleep.

I am close to starting NW. I consider myself in the preparation phase right now, but there is always some "good" reason why "now" is not the right time. I have started to incorporate some aspects of NCCS (pull-off, cue phase). I have given myself a goal to NW by end of year. My "reason" (some may call these excuses) for not NW had been that it would be too demanding since I worked FT and couldn't possibly have the stamina to make it through the NW phase. Then I quit work to be SAHM (very thankful that I can be), but I didn't want to NW right away b/c of the life transition for DD (from daycare to being with me all day). Then we traveled to visit family. Then we came back home and needed to get back on schedule. Now she is teething (which I expect will last for a few months - if past teething experiences repeat). I realize there will never be a good time to NW. Her windows of good times are unpredictable and short.

I'd like to get pregnant within next year, but I am bf'ing so much (this week has been practically every hour!!! due to teething) that I still don't have my period. NW is first logical place for me to start with weaning because I hope DD and I will both benefit from more sleep.

I need to build up the confidence that we will survive NW and DD will still love me. I need to accept that NW will be hard and I will be cranky and tired. I'm not there yet, though. It is difficult for me to imagine getting even less sleep for an unknown period of time.

I hope these threads will help me boost my confidence in NW. I'd love to hear some success stories from others!!!


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Louisep* 
So the pedi said DS has four molars coming through! I'll sleep when I'm dead??!!

Poor little guy. Like Leonelover13, teething aids don't work for us, not even motrin.

I'm pretty sure that's what DD is getting too. I usually give her 1/2 doses of Motrin but I have had to give her almost a full dose for it to work at all, and for her (and I) to be able to get SOME sleep. And like I said earlier, the sleeping with her head hanging off a pillow.

I always hope that 'this time' will be the last of the bad teething and then it progressively gets worse, and then I just read go_blue's post and got really depressed...







...another YEAR?!?!? I can't do it..ARRRGGGHH...I don't have a choice really!! I thought they got pretty much the last of their teeth at 2y/o so here's hoping for you go_blue!!

Today is HORRIFIC again..I got maybe 4/5 hrs of sleep last night because 1. She woke every 30-60 mins thrashing around and 2. I couldn't go to sleep from being anxious she was going to wake up any second.
This is day 5 now I think and I'm getting reeeeal close to my breaking point again. I yelled at her today, then apologized and cried, I kicked her balls as hard as I could to get out some aggression....felt REALLY good BTW...and it has been taking me over 2 hours to write this freaking post because every time I move she freaks out crying, whining, yelling or throwing something. She is finally napping, for GOD WILLING 1 or 2 hours..

I feel like a crappy Mom again. I can't help her if I can't help myself. I don't get sleep, food, time to myself, the ability to NOT be anxious, nothing, how am I supposed to muster the energy and compassion to devote myself to her when she is hurting so much? Why does nature let it get like this? It can't be right for us to feel so angry at such young children, how is this supposed to make us better mothers? There HAS to be some kind of reasoning behind it, naturally we do not want them to cry so we don't CIO, but now naturally we are put through heck for making such a wise decision and end up with feelings of wanting to throw the baby across the room!! It makes me feel like maybe we are wrong and we are supposed to go against our instinct and let them CIO?

What gives Mother Freakin' Nature?!?!


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Welcome Go_blue, I hope you find support here.

Leonelover13, I think our LOs are twins right now. How many teeth does she have? My son has 8 not including the molars. I guess it's true that babies who teeth early suffer more. And I think the molars are meant to be the most brutal.

My DH gave me a two hour lie in this morning and it took off the edge, although I have a pounding headache from falling asleep and waking up constantly.

Not much of inspiration to add!


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## Swandira (Jun 26, 2005)

Hi, all!

I know, in my heart of hearts, that I'm not a true Breaking Point Mama. However, lately my sweet, beautiful 10-month-old boy has been giving me some insight into how it is for you ladies.









He used to wake up only once or twice a night. Now he wakes up five or six times. (I know, to a lot of you that probably doesn't sound too bad!) I have a 3-year-old and a 6-year-old also, and I can't stay in bed past 7 am, because they need me, and besides, they'll come in and wake me up then even if I try to sleep. Anyway, my little girl has preschool three mornings a week and my bigger boy has homeschool-enrichment classes on other days as well, so I have places to be (and I generally have to drive to these places, which scares me given my sleep-deprived state.)

My baby wakes up and nurses all the time now. If I try to move or roll away from him a little he wakes up and screams. I have to be touching him, with the boob in his mouth until he drops it, or he screams and climbs up on top of me, and in his sleepy state he keeps losing muscle control during his screaming fits and falls over, head-butting me (often in the face, because that's where he crawls to) with his enormous, 95th+-percentile cranium that is probably half of his body-weight. Sometimes, after more than an hour of nursing him, I can't stand it anymore and I'll start crying and begging him to go back to sleep, but he just can't do it anymore without a boob in his mouth. And sometimes he'll nurse until he's full and then just decide it's time to play with us. He'll crawl back and forth between us and giggle, but we have to cover our heads because of the head-butting.

To make matters worse, my older kids, who used to sleep in the same bed, now are sleeping in separate rooms (at the insistence of the older one), and consequently both wind up coming into our room during the night, each waking me up again. Even though I'm exhausted, I often wind up staring at the wall for over an hour in the middle of the night because some kid has woken me up at the wrong point in my sleep cycle.

I yell at my older kids all the time now. My oldest gets very little teaching from me, although I'm not an unschooler by choice! I eat junk food just to stay awake during the afternoon, and sometimes I still fall asleep and wake up to find the 3-year-old has drawn on the table with a sharpie or some equally irritating crisis. I'm full of resentment for my husband, who tries to take the baby downstairs at night so I can sleep for a little while, but it's never very long before the baby wakes up and cries, and they come back upstairs and the permalatching begins. This post is the longest thing I've written in weeks. I only wish it were fiction like my usual stuff.

Post cut short because the baby is up again, probably for the day. Thanks for letting me whine, even though I know it could be a lot worse. Still, even this sucks.

Nealy
mama to T, 6; L, 3; and O, 12/12/08


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

*AAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!*


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## crabbyowl (May 6, 2008)

I'm in the same boat. Eleanor *did* gradually work up to STTN as a newborn and for three blissful nights actually STTN when she was 8 weeks old, but within a week or so she was back to waking up every 2 hours or so, and besides a few very rare nights where she only wakes up twice she wakes up at least every 2 hours, often more. On top of that, she still nurses almost like a newborn and will only rarely eat even semi-significant amounts of solids. Both DH and I were not good sleepers as babies either.

Last night she was up from 3-5 after having already woken twice, woke again at 6:30, and was up for the day at 7:30.









What's really frustrating to me is that I KNOW she can put herself back to sleep since I've seen her do it! Just a few nights ago DH's alarm was set for earlier than usual and woke all 3 of us up (Eleanor sleeps in a crib in our room) - I thought for sure she'd want me when I saw her push herself up on her arms and look over at us, but she laid back down and slept for another hour or so. I just REALLY wish she'd start doing that on a regular basis! I've been trying the NCSS, and she's at the point where she'll usually accept being put down when she's not totally asleep, but it hasn't had any impact on how long she sleeps.

I don't think I'm really at the breaking point yet, but I can really feel the sleep deprivation catching up with me, and I never feel at all rested.

It's a good thing she's so cute and cheerful and curious - I'm sure it'll be much more difficult when she starts having tantrums.


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## Luke's mama (Sep 29, 2009)

I thought I had it bad with 5 or 6 night wakings max, but appreciate now that that was minor to what other mamas are dealing with.

About teething, hyland's makes a teething gel that has comforted my ds (not lactose based) and i have read that camillia works well (got some but haven't tried it). Also have found tylenol and motrin to be a big help.

DS went through a real rough patch around 14 mos, but now his molars are mostly through and after a couple of months went back to usually only waking once or twice to nurse.

I know alot of people are anti-paci, but it has really helped me with transitioning a sleeping baby who is latched on. Also I usually offer it first during night wakings, sometimes he takes it and we all get back to sleep sooner, but when he wants to nurse he will have none of it (but will take it when he is done nursing).


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## merryns.mom (Jun 10, 2009)

i'm officially joining. . .i haven't slept longer than 1 hour in a week and i'm losing my freakin mind!

my 15 month old daughter has never slept well, but she did work her way to 3 or 4 hr stretches, this last week she's been congested and teething (at least i think it's teething-she popped her first 4 teeth in july after us blaming her not sleeping on teething since she was 4 months old!) now she has gotten 2 more teeth 2 weeks ago, but i know it's time for more teeth and she's been biting some more too

well, i work full time, go to school in the evenings, and she still breastfeeds like crazy at night and wont have anything to do with dad at night--i'm nuts and it's really causing problems.

i'm ill at work, ill at home, and i'm not sure what to do. my dh is throwing it in my face that we didn't/don't cio

and it's monday


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## BaMo (Mar 19, 2006)

Okay, I take back what I said a few days ago about having the worst night ever. Last night is now officially the worst night ever. _I wonder how many times I'm going to say that.







_ So bad that even DH said that DS is now going to be an only child.

Will try to catch up with you mamas later. Too tired to type.

Big hugs, lots of patience and a good night sleep to everyone!


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Wow. What a night last night. I can't believe I'm not still reeling.

Put DD down at 9. She slept a half hour ALONE. For the first time in WEEKS, DH and I had 30 whole minutes to ourselves. I was in heaven.

And then the night started. She woke and couldn't go back down. I went to bed with her at 11. Then she woke twice. Then DS woke up at 2...and did not go back to sleep until 6:30 AM. DH took a very short shift because of work, and I slept a few minutes here and there with him playing with my hair and talking at me, DD snuggled at the breast, waking every 30 min or so, until DD woke up FOR THE DAY at 4:45. I got DH to take over with DS, and I rocked and rocked with DD until she finally went back down at 7:30. Then she woke up again at 8 AM.

DH, DS, DD and I all played downstairs and mumbled at each other until 10 when she went back down again. DH stayed home "sick" so that I could go down with her and get some more rest. I felt a million times better when I woke up.

When we woke up, the first snow was falling outside, and everything was quiet and peaceful. I couldn't believe how amazing I felt looking out the window, with only 4ish hours of broken sleep and a short nap. But today is actually going okay. DS didn't nap, which means he'll be down at 7 for the night. Hopefully tonight will be better.

Mamas, this cannot go on much longer. I am so tired, and I am running to the grocery way too frequently to get more coffee.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *merryns.mom* 
well, i work full time, go to school in the evenings, and she still breastfeeds like crazy at night and wont have anything to do with dad at night--i'm nuts and it's really causing problems.

Mama, I take my hat off to you. I could never do what you're doing right now.

I'm hoping the rest of the recent posters' LOs are just coming up on a big milestone - it's ALWAYS worse before something new.

I feel like we're one step forward and 3 steps back. DS is consistently putting himself to sleep at night and last night stayed asleep for THREE whole hours before I went to bed!! He hasn't done that in months. But then he was wriggling from 10:30, woke up at 11:30 for 2.5 hours.

I too was surprised I did not feel worse today. I'm getting used to it, but also DH gives me at least a 1 hour lie in every morning and it seems to make the world of difference.

Sleep tight tonight LOs of breaking point mamas.


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## hibiscusgirl (Jun 30, 2007)

have you read Jay Gordon's night weaning plan?

he is a crunchy ap pediatrician. His article makes sense. we were going to try it with our little one when he was 18 months old but d/t it hurting to nurse & being pregnant we ended up stopping nursing before we got to this plan.

Hugs to you mama. You must take care of yourself as well. what your baby is doing sounds pretty normal to me. My son was the same way. he slept ok until 3 months old then it was always something - teeth, travel etc. he slept with me & I nursed him - we both got a lot of sleep. but he would never go more than 2 hours without nursing esp at night. he was a major comfort nurser! but if you're gone in the day they tend to make up for not seeing you by nursing more at night. babies are social beings - once we stopped the night nursing he slept all night long. it was rough for a few days until he got used to the new routine.

read that article & see if you can use any of it to help you. good luck! every thing is a phase. this time in their lives passes so quickly & you are establishing a good foundation.


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## BroccoliBabies (Oct 20, 2009)

DS1 didn't start sleeping well until he was eighteen months...which was when DS2 was born, so I haven't had a good night's sleep in a long, long, time. I seriously crave sleep.

DS2 is almost 15 months old and has never slept more than four hours at a time (that in itself is rare, most nights we're looking at 1-3 hour stretches). We're having a decent week right now, with only 3-4 wakings a night but at our worst, we are up every single hour or more. Lately, nursing seems to make him more wound up.

I've been at the breaking point many, many times. When it comes up in conversation, the response is ALWAYS "just let him cry" so I don't even discuss our sleep issues with anyone else anymore. I haven't met many people who really understand- I won't let him cry but just wait patiently for it to get better. It has to get better.

I truly feel for all of you mamas when I read your stories...


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *merryns.mom* 
i'm officially joining. . .i haven't slept longer than 1 hour in a week and i'm losing my freakin mind!

my 15 month old daughter has never slept well, but she did work her way to 3 or 4 hr stretches, this last week she's been congested and teething (at least i think it's teething-she popped her first 4 teeth in july after us blaming her not sleeping on teething since she was 4 months old!) now she has gotten 2 more teeth 2 weeks ago, but i know it's time for more teeth and she's been biting some more too

well, i work full time, go to school in the evenings, and she still breastfeeds like crazy at night and wont have anything to do with dad at night--i'm nuts and it's really causing problems.

i'm ill at work, ill at home, and i'm not sure what to do. my dh is throwing it in my face that we didn't/don't cio

and it's monday









Hugs, mama. I know what it's like when DH throws the "we should just let him cry" card. Take care of yourself.


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Louisep* 

I'm hoping the rest of the recent posters' LOs are just coming up on a big milestone - it's ALWAYS worse before something new.


Jane started crawling today!







Maybe she will start sleeping better in a week or two when she's really got the hang of it.

DS went down at 8 and all is quiet. I am PRAYING that tonight will be better.

He didn't get teeth until 11mo, so I'm hoping DD will follow suit and we won't have to deal with that for a few more months. Besides, I love the gummy baby grin.

Hope all the LOs sleep better tonight.


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## pumpkinseed (Aug 6, 2005)

I have also noticed that Camilia works better than the Hyland's teething tablets. I worry though-because my oldest (now 5) didn't get her 2 year molars until after she turned 3! Teething didn't seem to bother her too much-but my dd now is soooooooo messed up from teething and seems to be following the same slow teething rate as her big sister.


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## Funny Face (Dec 7, 2006)

LL13 I wish I could come relieve you. You definitely sound like you're at the end of your rope in a big way and I wish I could help somehow.









Does anyone else's joints hurt? I have to ask because I've always had chronic back pain but nothing like I have since ds was born and I stopped sleeping. Anyone?

I also feel a little privileged compared to some of you. Ds doesn't sleep well or for long but he definitely doesn't require me to be right next to him constantly. He recently moved to the crib next to my bed except when he's nursing. We had a ARC but he kept falling (crawling/bulldozing) out of our bed all the time. He doesn't hold still when he sleeps so bedsharing is out for us.

I was reading some of Dr. Sears Sleep Book at the library today and it just reminded me how hard so many of us are working at nurturing our babies. It may not feel like it but we do have a choice in this. We are choosing not to let our babies CIO and scream until they give up. That's a big deal.









And to be honest in no way do I want to NW. I just want to nurse LESS. Or for ds to just sleep MORE.

Sigh.


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

There is for sure something going on with the moon, maybe the time change?, the atmosphere or the cosmos?! I haven't a clue, but EVERY SINGLE Mother I know has a non sleeping, up all night, constantly whining from tiredness, baby in pain either from teething or growing pains..something.

Even the CIO Mom's! One I know has stopped CIO at night







because baby is in pain so she goes in rocks back to sleep and puts back in the crib.









Another has a 2 yr old who just started being violent, crabby and not sleeping this week. Another 2 both have 5/6 month olds who are waking all night and not napping...there's a conspiracy going on.

This is week 2 of...whatever this is...and evenings SUCK even worse now. She falls asleep on our walk as usual but wakes up when I get her into bed, every single time without fail, no matter what I try. So she's like "Goooood Evening! That was a great nap!" and doesn't even act tired until midnight.









But she doesn't wake until 10/11am the next day so at least I get 12 hours of interrupted sleep I guess. She is also napping better, 2 hours during the day again







which is FANTASTIC so I can work!

So I guess it's not as bad as it was. The other day when I posted my war-cry was horrific. DH worked nights for 3 days over the wkend so I had absolutely no break or help, and to to top it off, I started my first period in what, 18 months?! I was beyond exhausted...and bit*hy.

HUGS to all you Mamas, we are strong and we WILL get through this!


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

LeoneLover13 said:


> Quote:
> 
> There is for sure something going on with the moon, maybe the time change?, the atmosphere or the cosmos?! I haven't a clue, but EVERY SINGLE Mother I know has a non sleeping, up all night, constantly whining from tiredness, baby in pain either from teething or growing pains..something.
> No kidding. Mine are both conspiring against me, because if one is sleeping great, the other one starts sucking at sleep. What's with that??
> ...


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## Funny Face (Dec 7, 2006)

Last night was awful. My parents came over in the evening to watch Transformers and I went into ds at least 7 times during the movie.







Then we were up all night. I'm actually nursing him less at night but the problem right now is that he will lay down with a pacifier but I have to keep my arm shoved through the slats of the crib so I can rest my hand on his bottom, as soon as I move it he sits up and yells at me.









I love when dh is all moody in the morning and when I ask why he tells me "I didn't get much sleep, I heard ds waking up all night." (he sleeps on the other side of the house to escape the night time horror. Oh, _poor_ you!


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Funny Face* 

I love when dh is all moody in the morning and when I ask why he tells me "I didn't get much sleep, I heard ds waking up all night." (he sleeps on the other side of the house to escape the night time horror. Oh, _poor_ you!









Oh, gosh, I used to get this too. We've slept in separate rooms pretty much since DS was born, and now DH sleeps with DS and I sleep with DD. He complains about getting up once or about DS being restless at night, when I have been up for hours a time with DD that night.

When I finally told him that I feel for him that he's tired, I just don't want to hear about it, he stopped telling me how awful his night was. He just asks for a nap later.


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## snomnky (Jul 9, 2006)

I just found this thread... I am now feeling not so alone!

DD is 6mo and has not slept well yet, but in the last 2 mo has been an every 30-1hr waker. She was wanting to nurse, but now she just wants to be held. She is SO restless, turning her head from side to side, kicking, etc.

She is starting to be interested in movement and I think she will be crawling soon. Sometimes she just shakes her little but as I am trying to get her to sleep, it's cute, but annoying!

She seems to be in pain when she sleeps, but who knows. No teeth, she is not sick, but just battled the flu, and ear and sinus infection.

I am at 45min to get her to sleep, she grunts, arches, kicks, screams, makes motor boat noises, flicks my nipple, spits her binky at me, all while going to sleep.

I am truly DONE putting this child down! DS didn't sleep either, but would sleep some on my chest, not her. I have had many one hour of combined sleep nights, and I am not feeling good about things!


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

OMG my little baby is walking!!!! I know some LOs start sleeping better when they walk- please please please!!!

Last night he was awake every 1.5 hours but back down quickly. I kicked DH out to the spare room and with no snoring and more space I slept much better.

How's everyone doing?


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Louisep* 
OMG my little baby is walking!!!! I know some LOs start sleeping better when they walk- please please please!!!

Last night he was awake every 1.5 hours but back down quickly. I kicked DH out to the spare room and with no snoring and more space I slept much better.

How's everyone doing?









My DS started sleeping _somewhat_ better after that. There is another blip at 19 mo, but it's pretty smooth sailing for a while, if I remember right.

We're doing....awful. DS has been waking all night long, needing naps again during the day. DD is not taking any naps longer than 30 min. She is needing me to hold her while she sleeps until almost 10:30 when she is finally in a deep enough sleep.

The last two nights were terrible. I lost count of how many times she was up. At least she slept until 7:10 this morning. I have a horrible stomach ache, probably from drinking too much coffee, and from DS having a really bad day.

DD is crawling more every day, I was hoping that the burned off energy would help her sleep better, but so far it's gotten worse! I think she might be teething. Who knows, I'm just exhausted.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SactoMommy* 
We're doing....awful. DS has been waking all night long, needing naps again during the day. DD is not taking any naps longer than 30 min. She is needing me to hold her while she sleeps until almost 10:30 when she is finally in a deep enough sleep.

The last two nights were terrible. I lost count of how many times she was up. At least she slept until 7:10 this morning. I have a horrible stomach ache, probably from drinking too much coffee, and from DS having a really bad day.

DD is crawling more every day, I was hoping that the burned off energy would help her sleep better, but so far it's gotten worse! I think she might be teething. Who knows, I'm just exhausted.

Ugh, so sorry to hear it. Hugs.

Are you breastfeeding? If so, have you ever tried eliminating caffeine? I know, so not a helpful suggestion to a tired Mama. I decided to eliminate it and I can't say it's done much good, but I was only drinking one cup a day anyway. Just a thought.

I think teething is the root of all evils!


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Louisep* 
OMG my little baby is walking!!!! I know some LOs start sleeping better when they walk- please please please!!!

Last night he was awake every 1.5 hours but back down quickly. I kicked DH out to the spare room and with no snoring and more space I slept much better.

How's everyone doing?

CONGRATS!! That's wonderful!









And yes, they usually do start sleeping better. At least DD did and it was wonderful, I thought that was it, we'd gotten past the sleepless nights, but then she hit molars. Sorry if I just burst your bubble, LOL, enjoy every minute of sleep you get if things get better because it might not last...here's hoping that is does for you for a looong time though!!


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeoneLover13* 
And yes, they usually do start sleeping better. At least DD did and it was wonderful, I thought that was it, we'd gotten past the sleepless nights, but then she hit molars. Sorry if I just burst your bubble, LOL, enjoy every minute of sleep you get if things get better because it might not last...here's hoping that is does for you for a looong time though!!

No miracle yet and as expected, he woke at 5am with the time change! He's still putting himself to sleep though - which every single book says is the key to STTN. What RUBBISH!!!


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## smlame (Nov 13, 2007)

Hi sleep deprived mamas! I've just read a few posts on this thread b/c it reminds me of exactly where we were at a year ago. In my opinion, sleep actually gets harder before it gets easier in many kiddos. Starting around 9 months and through most of her 2nd year, our dd was all over the board with sleep. (If you think of all the new developments they go through during this time, is it any wonder their sleep is erratic?) I questioned myself all the time about whether this was our fault-that we had created this b/c we on demand nursed, co-slept and attachment parented. I feel like many peds, etc would have you believe that if you set up your child to expect nursing to sleep all night, then they will always expect that. Well, I just want to put in my own anecdotal experience that this is NOT true! My daughter is now 27 months and sleeps most nights 8-9 hours, no nursing, right next to me. And this happened on her own. So, I guess my bottom line is HANG IN THERE because things do get better, even if you don't "do" anything about it. It certainly is not easy-and I'd love to find some resources that help parents who have decided to attachment parent with how to handle it in the older years-toddler hood and beyond.


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smlame* 
Hi sleep deprived mamas! I've just read a few posts on this thread b/c it reminds me of exactly where we were at a year ago. In my opinion, sleep actually gets harder before it gets easier in many kiddos. Starting around 9 months and through most of her 2nd year, our dd was all over the board with sleep. (If you think of all the new developments they go through during this time, is it any wonder their sleep is erratic?) I questioned myself all the time about whether this was our fault-that we had created this b/c we on demand nursed, co-slept and attachment parented. I feel like many peds, etc would have you believe that if you set up your child to expect nursing to sleep all night, then they will always expect that. Well, I just want to put in my own anecdotal experience that this is NOT true! My daughter is now 27 months and sleeps most nights 8-9 hours, no nursing, right next to me. And this happened on her own. So, I guess my bottom line is HANG IN THERE because things do get better, even if you don't "do" anything about it. It certainly is not easy-and I'd love to find some resources that help parents who have decided to attachment parent with how to handle it in the older years-toddler hood and beyond.

Thank you!








It's great to hear stories like this, in that Mama's feel the year or two of ridiculous sleep disturbances was worth it and they now have a wonderfully sleeping LO, and not once did they CIO








Good to hear, thank you for commenting!


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## tigermiep (Dec 13, 2007)

It's nice to know there are other moms awake at this hour. I feel like I'm going to lose it any minute. This being awake in the night business, for upwards of an hour, has been going on for weeks. We transfered DS to his own room at 7 months because we thought he would sleep better there -- DP and I aren't great candidates for cosleeping due to overweight, and our restlessness and snoring were keeping him up. He continued his usual sleep patterns at first, so everything is fine. For a while, I would bring him to bed with us when he woke up at 5 or 6 and let him nurse back to sleep. For other wakeups, I would bring him downstairs to our usual nursing spot on the couch, and take him back to his bed when he fell asleep.

DS started teething around 3 or 4 months and got his first tooth two days after he turned 5 months. He had 7 teeth by 7 months, and now has 8. He's 10 1/2 months now. I know that teething may be a part of this, but his habit is going from being up once or twice before DP and I go to bed, to waking every 45 minutes between 7:30 or 8 when I put him down and when we go to sleep, and then being nursed back to sleep once or twice around 11:30, and then being up for an hour or 2 or 3 during the night.

I don't want to let him CIO. I can't bring him back to bed with me any more, because he won't lie down, just keeps writhing and trying to nurse while standing over me with his butt in the air (sounds funny when I type it, but hurts and makes me crazy and angry when I'm trying to sleep). I teach, and DP is at home with him during the day, so I can't go back to bed for long, some times at all, when he pulls one of his "Hey, look! we're awake! Let's play!" routines.

Last night, he let me sleep from 11:45 to 4:45, and then was up for the day. I know he needs more sleep. He napped for over two hours in the afternoon, on my lap at brunch, and then in his car seat, and I got him to go to sleep around 8:00. He was up again at 8:30. And then at 10:30. The first time, he nursed back to sleep pretty fast -- I don't think he was really awake. The second time, it took 45 minutes of sitting on the couch and nursing him for him to go back to sleep. He woke up again at 1:30.

I had him nearly asleep, but he kept squirming and repositioning. When he would settle, and I'd try to pop him off to carry him upstairs, he would wake. He kept trying to get comfortable, crawling on and off me on the couch, but couldn't settle.

Now he's playing on the other side of the room and starting to fuss, so maybe he'll nurse now? and go to sleep?
ooh. crying. Mama to the rescue.

I don't know how much more of this I can take. I am so tired and crazy and angry from sleep deprivation.

thanks for listening, commiserating, whatever. I haven't had a chance to read all the thread, just the first page, but I'm here.

ETA: I think i'm all caught up now, and now i know it could be worse.







kudos to all you mamas who are non-violently soldiering on. DS is nursing now, and heading for sleep, so maybe I'll get another decent stretch before I have to get up at 6 for work...

I hadn't thought about allergies. DS loves solids and is eating 2 big meals plus snacks and BF on demand when I'm home, plus 8 or so oz. of EBM while I'm at school. I'll talk with DP about cutting back on gluten again (he didn't have any until 9 1/2 months) and maybe cutting out the yogurt he's been having every few days... do you think the 1 cup of caffeinated coffee I'm having in the morning at 7 could be affecting him at night?

feeling more serene and less volatile for reading this thread. I'll definitely be back!


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## heavensearth (Oct 10, 2009)

I dont know where DS gets all of this energy!!! We started putting him to bed earlier (start at 7.. he's down by 7:45) but then he wakes up again at 9:30-10 and is all reved up!!!! we dont CIO, around 10:30-11:30 DH comes home and rocks him back to sleep, sometimes for hours.. 6 weeks and im back to work, I don't know what im going to do.

Maybe tomorrow will be better...


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

smlame - thank you for dropping by with your words of hope! Honestly, though, another year of this? UGH!

We're a mess. Worse than ever. DS won't nap (he has ALWAYS napped). He's waking up at 5am and going to bed at 6pm. Wakings weren't TOO bad last night - I think we even had a couple of 2 hour stretches in there. But that's probably because it was crash sleep after having a bedtime meltdown because he had only one nap all day in the morning. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

I lost it yesterday. DH had to come home from work. I'm also getting sick and just hope it's not the flu.


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

So sorry you are having a hard time, I'm right there with you though...again.

How old is your DS now? I forget, but was wondering if maybe it's the beginning of transitioning to one nap/day? DD started the 'transition' (which seemed to last a month) around 9/10 months.

I think I've lost it too...but it's now being taken out on DH, I"m not sure if it's warranted or not though. I'm so confused, angry, tired, annoyed..









DD has started the "I"m gona take a nap at 8/9pm at night, for an hour, and then be up til past midnight." again. It's infuriating because she finally falls asleep at a decent time and wakes an hour later as usual, I go in, nurse, rock, shh, everything and she will have none of it, she's up, wide awake ready to play. I have tried just staying in the room, continually rocking, shh, pat, nurse etc. and not giving in until she falls asleep, and it takes 2-3 hours, which is just pointless in my book. I don't know how we got back on this schedule. But now we don't wake up til 10/11am and she takes her usual nap anywhere from noon to 2, for 2 hours.

I think she slept better last night, I managed to sweeten the camomile tea I gave her, enough that she liked it and drank a lot. So i'm wondering if that helped. She had more tonight, so we'll see.

It's 11:15pm here and she just went down, I kept her up til 1030 before going to sleep in the hopes she will stay asleep.

As far as DH goes, he needs to be at my whim and helping me whenever I ask or he can SEE that I need it. Or he needs to keep the heck outta my way, because this......







.......is about where I am.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Louisep* 
smlame - thank you for dropping by with your words of hope! Honestly, though, another year of this? UGH!

We're a mess. Worse than ever. DS won't nap (he has ALWAYS napped). He's waking up at 5am and going to bed at 6pm. Wakings weren't TOO bad last night - I think we even had a couple of 2 hour stretches in there. But that's probably because it was crash sleep after having a bedtime meltdown because he had only one nap all day in the morning. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

I lost it yesterday. DH had to come home from work. I'm also getting sick and just hope it's not the flu.


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## crabbyowl (May 6, 2008)

The time change is messing with us here too - Eleanor wakes up at 6 AM instead of 7-ish, but does everything else (nap, bedtime) on the new time schedule.









Last night was a NIGHTMARE. I knew it would be bad when her first stretch of sleep, which usually lasts about 3 hours, was not even 2 hours. She woke up 3 times before midnight (after going down at about 7:45, which is typical), and after that slept for no longer than 45 minutes, with a few 30-minute stretches thrown in for good measure. All in all she woke up ELEVEN TIMES in as many hours!




























I just hope she naps for at least 1.5 hours today, because I REALLY need it, and DH is no help at all when it comes to sleep. (







)

It's days like this when I wish she'd just grow up already - not all the way, just enough so she'll actually sleep for a decent amount of time!


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Well ladies, it looks like I might be ducking out for a while. We're still having nap troubles, but DH and I had 30 WHOLE MINUTES to ourselves last night while DD slept ALONE in the bed. I am feeling like an absolutely new person. She's been going longer stretches during the night but I couldn't say how long because we don't have a clock in our room.

I'm so sorry you all are still having troubles. I'm sure I'll be back in a few months.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SactoMommy* 
Well ladies, it looks like I might be ducking out for a while. We're still having nap troubles, but DH and I had 30 WHOLE MINUTES to ourselves last night while DD slept ALONE in the bed. I am feeling like an absolutely new person. She's been going longer stretches during the night but I couldn't say how long because we don't have a clock in our room.

I'm so sorry you all are still having troubles. I'm sure I'll be back in a few months.









So glad things are better, even if just for now. I wish we could catch a break, it would give me hope. I guess we were doing better until the time change threw us into chaos.

I've just got down for a nap after thirty mins of crying - how is that not CIO? I had to hold him tight. It reminded me of when he was a newborn and needed swaddling and would cry himself to sleep in my arms. Can't believe in ten months we're back to that and all my efforts have achieved nothing, nada, zero.

LL13, he's just about ten months. He's always needed a lot of naps because he catnaps. He was taking 3 until recently when I started messing with them to see if I could get him to take 2 long ones. Failure. And now he's on map 2 of the day and it's not even midday. We were up at 5 though. I don't know how to get him back on track.

As for DHs. Hmpf. He tries but gets mad at me when I get upset. He's been trying to put DS down at night and it worked for awhile but not lately. So I'm back to feeling like my entire existence revolves around getting my child to sleep.

I should try and sleep too now.


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## tigermiep (Dec 13, 2007)

Louisep -- our DS is 10, almost 11 months. maybe it's a phase? God, please let it be a phase -- my mom says I didn't STTN until I was 6 or 7. Sometimes, she says it was 12!

Too bad we don't all live near one another -- we could take turns napping during the the all night party.









As for us, we got 2 good stretches in between 9 and 11 and midnight at 3:30, which was AWESOME -- I felt great. And then he was up for 2 hours at 3:30.







: This would be okay if I didn't have to get up for work at 6.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tigermiep* 
Louisep -- our DS is 10, almost 11 months. maybe it's a phase? God, please let it be a phase -- my mom says I didn't STTN until I was 6 or 7. Sometimes, she says it was 12!

Too bad we don't all live near one another -- we could take turns napping during the the all night party.









As for us, we got 2 good stretches in between 9 and 11 and midnight at 3:30, which was AWESOME -- I felt great. And then he was up for 2 hours at 3:30.







: This would be okay if I didn't have to get up for work at 6. 

I so wish I knew ladies like you IRL! Where is everyone located? It doesn't say on everyone's tags. I'm in DC right now but will be back "home" in Atlanta in January.

I didn't STTN until I went to school but I was never as bad as my DS - just once or twice a night. I would kill to have that right now!

I know it must SUCK so bad for you to have to go to work, but some days I long to go to work to have a break from the sleep battle (which continues in the day with naps). In fact, I think I'm going to look for work in the new year. But man, up 2 hours at 3:30 is ROUGH!


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## tigermiep (Dec 13, 2007)

at least I have a job where I have to be active -- I'm a waldorf class teacher, so there's no sitting still in my chair falling asleep. I'm in minnesota, where it's now getting dark at 5 pm, so we actually got our very, very tired boy into bed at 6:30 this evening. we'll see how long it lasts.


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

Well it's great to hear SactoMommy is doing well!









Sorry for the rest of you, we are all in the same boat. I also wish you were all local and we could have sleepovers









I am not near any of you, I'm in Guam and the time doesn't change here so I can't blame the recent spike in late nights on that.

It's 530pm Wednesday here, so it's about 1230 am in the States, meaning you are all probably either still up or rolling around in bed trying to get your LO's back to sleep! Mine is currently STILL napping, she went down finally at 230pm, so It's most certainly going to be a late night again....









I hope you all get some sleep!


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## Mamato3wild ponnie (Jan 6, 2007)

I NEED HELP...ASAP...As you can see it's...2:20am...our 1 y/o is wide awake for the 3rd night in a row. I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE! We co-sleep with our almost 5y/o and the 1 y/o....some nights are ok....here lately...it's getting worse as far as me getting sleep....the baby wants to nurse both breasts and then wants a 3rd breast....there is no milk left at this point...no patience on my end...i am fully awake when he nurses...and I feel like losing it! I roll over and he cries...pulls my hair...kicks covers...sits up. I finally just got up out of bed. He's not walking yet....i read that when he starts walking he will sleep? I never had this issue with any of the other children! I've tried to get my DP to set up a big boy room for our 5 yo and he doesnt see how that will help...i've tried to talk him into putting the twin mattress on the floor beside our bed...and well he doesnt like that he has to "step" over it all the "time". Yet who is up right now with the baby...MEMEME! Ughhhh.
I feal like giving the baby a bottle of formula...he's never taken a bottle...but something has to give...I need him to be comforted by some one other than me! Like take a passy or something! Just something!


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Sorry, nak...

Big virtual hug. More space in the bed has helped me. Have you thought of night weaning? I'm going to as soon as DS turns one. Sorry if that offends any one. How about offering water? Have you tried the Pantley Pull Off as described in The No Cry Sleep Solution?

Maybe post a new thread. We're all in the same boat here looking for help. At least we are able to give each other support. You are not alone.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeoneLover13* 
Well it's great to hear SactoMommy is doing well!









Sorry for the rest of you, we are all in the same boat. I also wish you were all local and we could have sleepovers









I am not near any of you, I'm in Guam and the time doesn't change here so I can't blame the recent spike in late nights on that.

It's 530pm Wednesday here, so it's about 1230 am in the States, meaning you are all probably either still up or rolling around in bed trying to get your LO's back to sleep! Mine is currently STILL napping, she went down finally at 230pm, so It's most certainly going to be a late night again....









I hope you all get some sleep!

At least your LO takes long naps! Yay for that!


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Last night was awful. DD was up screaming every hour. She doesn't have any teeth coming in, I don't think it's a growth spurt, and I'm pretty sure she just hates me. That being said DH and I have decided to night wean starting Friday. I'm exhausted and cranky so much of the time and DD needs a happy mom more than she needs 3am boobs. We're using eh Jay Gordon plan, but there's a few things I don't get. It says not to let her fall asleep nursing in the plan for the first three nights. Well at 3am in the dark how do I know she's asleep? What do I do if she won't go back to sleep? And would it be better for DH to comfort her back to sleep or me?


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

CrystalR I think you should open a new thread with your weaning questions so they don't get missed in this thread which many mamas might not look at.

Good luck and I shall be taking notes!


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## tigermiep (Dec 13, 2007)

worst night in a while. he wouldn't go to sleep for so long. finally got him to sleep at 8:45, and he woke up when i tried to put him in bed. back to sleep at 10, up at 10:30. sleeping at 11, up at 12, and again at 2:45. he keeps falling asleep and then waking up when i try to put him down -- and this is from a dead sleep, floppy and all, as well as when he's just lightly asleep. on top of that, he was coughing this weird throat-clearing, grating cough all evening. so he's dozing at the breast, my back aches from trying to walk the floor with him, and i'm hoping against hope that i'll get to go to sleep at some point, but right now, i'm not sure. i have to be up in 2 1/2 hours anyway...


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

Just stopping by to say I'm still here and still in the same boat....sigh...

I have figured out that she has at least 4 molars coming through, maybe 5 or 6, and she has started running this week, expanded her vocabulary and signing language A LOT and understands a lot more now. Obviously she is going through a huge growth spurt accompanied by some serious teething.

She is still trying to take a second nap anywhere from 8-9pm at night for an hour or so, which is killing me because then she's up til past midnight... I'm keeping her up again tonight until 930/10pm and will HOPE AND PRAY that she will stay asleep after an hour.

tigermiep- sorry to hear about your night







I would definitely get LO checked out for the cough, that's bound to be a reason he keeps waking up.


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## vegancat (Mar 24, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama_Gaia* 
... now the _longest_ seems to be 1-2 hours.. and most days, no naps except in arms while in motion and attached to my breast...,

i have today committed to reverse the bad habit i have created, where i stay up and waste time and let him sleep at the breast for hours on end simply because i so psychologically dread trying to set him down alone, or transfer both him and i into lying in our bed, and thus waking him and starting all over again.. but i have to do it.. which is why i am off to give it a go, cross your fingers, may be back in .4 seconds or less, this is attempt number two so far tonight but he did not nap today so i figure he is definitely tired and if i start early maybe will work before he gets too overtired??

Mama_Gaia, I'm in exactly the same situation except my little girl is nearly a year old. I'm going out of my mind with lack of sleep, lack of time to get anything done, and cranky no-napping baby. Nothing I have tried yet has worked, so I'll be watching this thread eagerly for ideas. I especially identified with your post when you said you sit up for hours dreading trying to set him down, because I do the same thing. There's got to be an answer!

Hugs to you,
cat.


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## tigermiep (Dec 13, 2007)

yup. baby is sick. he has a fever. poor little guy. we're headed for the ped. in a little bit. here's hoping he gets some more rest tonight.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tigermiep* 







yup. baby is sick. he has a fever. poor little guy. we're headed for the ped. in a little bit. here's hoping he gets some more rest tonight.

Ugh, I hope he feels better soon and you can get some rest.


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## tigermiep (Dec 13, 2007)

well, it's H1N1. He's on Tamiflu and I'm keeping him dosed up on ibuprofen, which really seemed to help a lot and took care of his fever. we were up and down a lot for the first 2 hours of the night, but when he woke up again just as I was leaving the room, having been up for over an hour and having JUST tucked him in, I picked him up, felt him go right back to sleep in my arms, and took him in to sleep on me. we slept for four hours! granted, I'm going to be in a lot of neck and back pain in the morning, but it's saturday, and FOUR HOURS!!!!


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tigermiep* 
well, it's H1N1. He's on Tamiflu and I'm keeping him dosed up on ibuprofen, which really seemed to help a lot and took care of his fever. we were up and down a lot for the first 2 hours of the night, but when he woke up again just as I was leaving the room, having been up for over an hour and having JUST tucked him in, I picked him up, felt him go right back to sleep in my arms, and took him in to sleep on me. we slept for four hours! granted, I'm going to be in a lot of neck and back pain in the morning, but it's saturday, and FOUR HOURS!!!!

Oh no! The poor mite. I'm glad you were able to get it diagnosed quickly and get the tamiflu. I've read that if you gargle with salt water and drink warm fluids, you can prevent yourself from getting the flu because it resides in the throat for several days before developing. Just thought I'd mention it in case you can prevent yourself from getting it. I wonder how your LO got it?

Glad you got some sleep!


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

We started nightweaning last night. 2.5 hours of screaming b/c I wouldn't give her back the boob to fall asleep. Someone tell me this gets easier b/c I had less sleep than normal last night.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crystal_R* 
We started nightweaning last night. 2.5 hours of screaming b/c I wouldn't give her back the boob to fall asleep. Someone tell me this gets easier b/c I had less sleep than normal last night.

I'm sorry I don't have any experience with night weaning yet, but I'm positive it will get better. Ugh, I wish you had more responses to your other post. Have you done a search for old night weaning threads? I'm seem to remember there was one not long ago. OR maybe you should post in the breastfeeding forum??

GOOD LUCK tonight.


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## crabbyowl (May 6, 2008)

Grrrrr! Her being up almost every hour all night for nearly a week has taken its toll, and I'm now sick.







There's no worse feeling than knowing you're getting worse and worse every time you get up, having the pain in your head and throat getting ever stronger. Plus she was up every hour again last night - so much for this thing called "rest" we're supposed to get when we're sick.


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## hibiscus mum (Apr 6, 2009)

Could there ne ANYTHING more infuriating than spending an hour nursing and rocking a baby to sleep, only to have him pop his head up like a damn prairie dog whenever I put him down!? Repeat four to five times. This child is KILLING me.

DD was a stellar sleeper and I thought it was thanks to my wonderful parenting. This kid is proving me wrong. Thanks for this thread as I am totally at the end of my rope. It has to get better, right?


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hibiscus mum* 
Could there ne ANYTHING more infuriating than spending an hour nursing and rocking a baby to sleep, only to have him pop his head up like a damn prairie dog whenever I put him down!? Repeat four to five times. This child is KILLING me.

I hate that! It's like they're tricking you. Haha you thought I was asleep, GOTCHA!


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crystal_R* 
I hate that! It's like they're tricking you. Haha you thought I was asleep, GOTCHA!

Oh my gosh, it drives me berserk! I get the obvious signs of being tired, so go ahead and spend 45 mins trying to get her to sleep all the while she is laying in my arms staring at the ceiling, talking and singing. Or at night when I am rocking to sleep in the dark I can barely see her face if she is on my shoulder, I spend 30 mins walking, humming, rocking, she is limp, I go to lay down in the bed with her and in the pitch dark I see two huge glistening eyes staring silently back at me...AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crabbyowl* 
Grrrrr! Her being up almost every hour all night for nearly a week has taken its toll, and I'm now sick.







There's no worse feeling than knowing you're getting worse and worse every time you get up, having the pain in your head and throat getting ever stronger. Plus she was up every hour again last night - so much for this thing called "rest" we're supposed to get when we're sick.









I'm sick too. Hoping it's just a head cold.


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## crabbyowl (May 6, 2008)

I've been sick for 3 days now and am feeling awful.







2 nights ago Eleanor actually only got up 3 times, which is what she used to do before she started getting up every hour about a week ago, but last night was the worst I think we've ever had. She woke up 14 times in a 12-hour period for no discernible reason - I offered her milk every time, I tried changing her diaper, I tried everything I could think of but nothing worked. Plus I have that awful sickness-energy that made it hard to fall asleep, so I would only actually sleep for half an hour or so before she'd be up again. So not only has she turned from a not-great-but-acceptable sleeper into an absolute NIGHTMARE, I and am essentially unable to rest and recover during the day either because she now only naps for about 45 minutes. Plus, she doesn't seem at all bothered by the fact that she's also getting quite a bit less sleep.





















At least she's fairly self-sufficient in terms of play - she'll play with her toys and flip through her books on her own for the most part as long as I'm nearby, which is good because I don't know what I'd do if she needed more constant guidance to stay occupied.

I just need to SLEEP for more than an hour at a time, and for her to get over whatever is going on that's turned her into a devil-child during the night.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

I haven't been feeling bad lately. DS has, for about a week, been staying asleep when I put him to bed for 2-3 sleep cycles and then "only" waking up ever 2 hours throughout the night, going back to sleep easily.

Sigh, last night was horrendous. WHY? I just want to know WHY? I have a stinking cold so went to bed with DS at 7pm to make the most of the 3 hour stint. I was on a separate mattress from him so as not to wake him. Sure enough, after 45 minutes he's awake. He didn't sleep longer than a ONE HOUR stretch the entire night and was awake from 2-3:30am.

Like PPs, I dread getting sick, and now I'm sick, I'm worried about how to get better. I long to be able to give him to DH for the night, but he just can't soothe him.

I need all your positive thoughts mama that this was just a blip because the thought of going back to long middle of the night wakings and hourly wakings is pushing me over the edge.

PS DS had this cold first, so he's not sick and in fact only suffered with it for a day


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## go_blue (Oct 21, 2009)

Just thought I'd share my experience in hopes it gives some of you some encouragement...

My DD just turned 2, and I am starting to see some results from NCSS advice for night-weaning by using latch-offs. After about 3 weeks of frequent latch-offs when I was putting DD to bed, and occasional latch-offs in middle of night, my daughter has been falling asleep without breast in her mouth about 8 of last 10 nights. She is often latching off herself, rolling over, relaxing a little and finally falling asleep.

I am pleased with the progress, considering I have not been very consistent with the latch-offs (between 12 and 3AM I am usually too tired to remember to latch her off).

I find that DD needs more pacifying at the end of the night than at the beginning. She can fall asleep much easier at the beginning of the night. I try rubbing her back or stroking her head once I latch her off, but this often is not enough to relax her back to sleep in middle of night. I have not tried anything else yet because I don't know anything else I can do while still lying in bed (I feel too sleep deprived to try to relax her by getting out of bed myself).

I try to talk to her every 1 or 2 days about the sleeping arrangement and how we are changing our sleep habits and how I will help her sleep without having to nurse. I have not refused the breast yet; I will likely try the "milk is sleeping" approach...

For reference, DD can fall asleep on her own since she always did so for nap at daycare. Her first stretch of sleep every night is about 3 hours (ranges from 1 to 5 hours); she wakes up every 1-2 hours after the first stretch until she is awake for good in the AM (usually after a long nursing/pacifying session). I co-sleep with her in her room on her bed. Her nighttime sleep habits have not varied much during her life (except for illnesses, teething, anxiety from travel)

Not sure how much longer my patience will last. I do long for sleep...


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

Louisep- So sorry to hear you are sick







that's probably the last thing you need right now. I wish I could tell you it was a blip, or a fluke night, but who knows really. It may have been just that one night, it might be the start of teething again...who knows. I felt the same way just the other day.

Out of nowhere, miraculously, DD went 2 nights in a row 5-6 hours without waking!!







And then every 1-2 hours after that. This is all still on her "night schedule" of going to bed at midnight.

It was BEAUTIFUL,







I was so happy the next day, so was she, we played, laughed, walked outside, went to the park, she ate a lot more...it was just like before any of this started, life was easy and so happy. And then all of a sudden it stopped and she went back to every 45 mins - hour again







It was literally torture..She fell asleep at 9pm the third night after the 5 hour stints, and DH and I excitedly threw on a movie and settled on the couch for the first time in God-knows-how-long. She woke 30 mins later, it was a nap,







but I refused to give in, she just had ot go back to sleep...I tried and not-tried for THREE HOURS before she fells asleep again, at midnight. DH had passed out on the couch and I was exhausted. I was SO upset







, I was so hoping for that one night with DH, we haven't watched a movie together without interruption since she was born. I guess welcome to life with a baby!

We're going to try again this weekend...because I so need DH time
















Good Luck, I hope you feel better!


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Nak

LL13- oh I feel so hopeful that your LO might be turning a corner! 5-6 hours is amazing!! And shows she CAN do it. I totally know what you mean re DH. Our relationship has really suffered and I've been reminiscing a lot about our pre baby days. Is your LO high needs? Our DS is, so daytime is just as much work as the night. He needs constant attention and entertainment and is often fussy. It makes me sad because I don't know if I can go through this again with a 2nd baby. I would like to have another but I think I would have a breakdown with another poor sleeping high needs babe. Kwim?

Sigh.

Battling with a nap right now, so better go. Last night was a bit better but he cried everytime he woke which is unusual. He's been having nightmares too. What does it all mean?????


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## lurve (May 5, 2006)

can i join in? my DD is almost three years old and such a crappy sleeper! i can't even get an hour away from her yet. i am just tired and feel alone. everyone thinks i created this but she is just a bad sleeper...


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## jewelsJZ (Jan 10, 2008)

I belong here too. I feel like I've posted on this thread before but now I can't find it. Our 11 mo. old wakes many times per night. Dh and I go back and forth with him. I nurse him 'til he won't nurse any more or I can't take it anymore and then dh takes him and feeds him a bottle. Yeah, I know, but it works for us.
So I am not as sleep deprived as I used to be now that we take turns with him, but we really wish he would sleep longer.
He also will not take naps unless we are holding him or he is in the Ergo or in the car. He's over 20 pounds now so carrying him around in the Ergo for hours is killing me. It's the only way I can get stuff done, though.
Also, I've seen on this thread a few times where people get criticized in real life about co-sleeping causing the problems with the child's inability to STTN. Well this one is my 3rd baby. My first two STTN as infants and still do. We all co-sleep, all 5 of us now. I never had any problems like this with them. They never nursed during the night once they were seven or eight months old, something like that. It was not that I refused to nurse them, they just simply did not wake up until morning. So it is not your fault, not anything you are doing wrong. Just wanted to say that. Sleeping patterns and personalities vary by child.
I am also encouraged that most people on this thread are talking about kids under 2 years old so hopefully our kiddos are all on their way to sleeping better soon. Fingers crossed.
I also see a lot of babes on this thread who toss and turn and get up and flop around a lot. Ours does too. Makes me wonder if there is something going on in their little neurological systems that makes it hard for them to sleep. Of course there is teething and illness and all that but I wonder if there is something more.


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

pak










i haven't read all of the posts yet but i just arrived at the breaking point. DD is 9 mos. and will not sleep without the boob in her mouth. last night she screamed/flipped/kicked/hit/scratched at me for 40 min. b/c I would not give her the boob back after she ate and chomped me hard enough to draw blood (b/c she was falling asleep). I can't spend every evening and all night in bed with her so that she can sleep, and I can't let her chew on me just to keep her sleeping anymore. I don't know what the next step is, but we're suffering right now.

to make matters worse, she won't nap except when nursed down in our bed--wakes if moved--and yesterday i caught her "sleep-sitting" in our (very high, unsafe) bed playing by herself when I thought she was napping. She was asleep but up and playing--I scared her when I picked her up. So no more napping alone in our bed.







There's no way to make it safe.

Ugh. UGHHHHH.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Hello "new" mamas. I've been at BP for awhile, it comes and goes. Right now it's not the sleep deprivation that is getting me down (although I'm worried because of how bad my immune system has gotten and a simple cold has gone to my chest like I've never experienced before). It's the lack of me time, or DH and I time. It's not like I'm expecting to have much time, just the odd night once in awhile, you know? I am attached to DS almost 24/7 and separation anxiety is just kicking in. DS has to nap with me, which I don't mind so much, but it means DH and I can't even have a "daytime date". I guess we could steal a couple of hours at the weekend. At night, it's all me, DS won't have anything to do with DH. In fact, last night when DH tried, he screamed even louder and climbed up me as if he were scared. Poor DH.

jewelsJZ - thanks so much for sharing your experience, it makes me feel better. I'm constantly second guessing my parenting.

The resentment of other babies who STTN and who can be left with grandparents has been creeping back into my mind again like a little devil.


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## Shannie77 (Jan 16, 2007)

UGH! I am so at my breaking point, and I am pregnant with number 2. All I can say is I am currently reading every sleep book I can get my hands on that isn't on the CIO end/ non-ap of the spectrum. I feel like I have created a monster!! DD 2.5 literally is turning into a monster at night... waking up and screaming and tantruming, really for no apparent reason. During the day she is a joy.

I am going to try to transition her to her own bed next to mine. I am hoping (and probably falsely) that having her own space will lead to less night waking.

I am so nervous that we won't get things under control by the time the new baby arrives.


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## tigermiep (Dec 13, 2007)

Well, DS is officially over his flu, and he celebrated by having 2 nights of beautiful sleep -- granted, there wasn't more than 7 or 8 hours altogether each night, which is not enough for a babe, but there were only 1 or 2 wakeups after 10. can we go for a threepeat? can we? huh?
please?


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## SarahJaner (Nov 23, 2008)

I am so glad I found this thread. My 15 month old dear heart has not accomodated me with two consecutive hours of sleep since she was 4 months old and began teething. She is up half a dozen or more times at night, and really only sleeps while she is nursing. All the time. If she is tired and needs a nap, we have to nurse to sleep. Sad, hurt, bored, glad all equall nurse. The sleeping thing is the most difficult, though. She will not tolerate my husband's brand of comfort, and will just screech in his arms, for HOURS until I come with the milk. I feel for all the ladies mentioning that although isolation is no way to live life its better than buddying up with mama's who have less demanding children. I had to sever all ties with a friend of mine because not only does she get rest, she gets to knit, sew, eat and even have dates with her husband.
If I don't get time for dinner or a shower (angry baby) I definately don't run the risk of creating any siblings.
It's not just me. In this house, we're all suffering. What gives? My husband and I thought we had it all figured out. Home birth, exclusive breastfeeding, aversion to 'crying it out'...
Sheesh


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## JennaImNaima (Nov 13, 2009)

Thank you for this post. My DD 15mos. is nursing all night (every two hours...sometimes less now that she's getting her molars) and I'd love it if she would wake me up so much but I'm too worried about her because she's also a slender little thing and doesn't eat so much during the day because (I believe) she attached to mama's "bobo".


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## MG01 (Nov 17, 2008)

ohhhh mamas, i'm back, i thought we'd gotten over the hump, but it's coming back again, the past six hours ds has been squirming and crying and waking and sleeping and latching on and off.. his teeth on top are just breaking thru so i think that is part of it, but i cannot lay him down, i have to bounce him and hold him in all these weird positions and nurse him constantly because i think the pressure of being latched helps with the teething pain.. i have an exam tomorrow and feel completely exhausted and unprepared.. i don't know what do with this kiddo, i love him so much and am feeling positively towards him and about my own physical and mental health, so luckily i am not back at that point of feeling frustrated with him and crossing into poor health/habits, but i know it is easy to get back to that place with chronic sleep deprivation and the cascading effect from there, so i think i really need to address this before it gets back to a bad place.. what on earth do you do?? should i assume it is teething? he also has really gone backwards on EC (used to be we'd get a catch 99% of the time i pottied him, now we have misses most the time and it seems fruitless.. but then when i let him go diaper free he pees or poos on the floor







i don't get upset with him or anything, i don't want him to associate eliminating with stress/anxiety no matter when/where, but i just feel like, if he needs to go and will go on the floor or in diaper, why not over the sink or toilet!? i am wondering if he doesn't have digestive stuff going on too (formerly was having some greens tools and issues when i was introducing some solids, but have cut back and started the process again more slowly and it seems to be better..) i just know that he _knows_ when he is eliminating and it seems that he would be more comfortable just getting it done on the potty.. plus he has lately been so squirmy too, just like he can't get comfortable, flailing his legs and arms and opening his eyes and arching his back, just cannot seem to get into a good solid sleep state or comfy position, so there is no way i can either.. hoping this is very short term this go round.. hang in there all, i feel your pain..


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## MG01 (Nov 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SarahJaner* 
I am so glad I found this thread. My 15 month old dear heart has not accomodated me with two consecutive hours of sleep since she was 4 months old and began teething. She is up half a dozen or more times at night, and really only sleeps while she is nursing. All the time. If she is tired and needs a nap, we have to nurse to sleep. Sad, hurt, bored, glad all equall nurse. The sleeping thing is the most difficult, though. She will not tolerate my husband's brand of comfort, and will just screech in his arms, for HOURS until I come with the milk. I feel for all the ladies mentioning that although isolation is no way to live life its better than buddying up with mama's who have less demanding children. I had to sever all ties with a friend of mine because not only does she get rest, she gets to knit, sew, eat and even have dates with her husband.
If I don't get time for dinner or a shower (angry baby) I definately don't run the risk of creating any siblings.
It's not just me. In this house, we're all suffering. What gives? My husband and I thought we had it all figured out. Home birth, exclusive breastfeeding, aversion to 'crying it out'...
Sheesh









glad you found this community and thread, it's a great way to vent and get ideas and support from other mamas- my son too is a constant nurser, whether for comfort or closeness or alleviating teething pain/pressure by remaining latched, it is all the time, and he also wakes frequently at night, or lately, won't allow me to even put him down so that i too can lay down next to him to sleep- tonight, i haven't even been able to get him to lay next to me, attached to the breast, he just squirms and cries and flails. so i am sitting all contorted at the computer with him passed out in a bizarre position on my lap/arm because i don't know what else to do.

judging from my past experiences, it is so important to get breaks and to try to head off the worst of it before your mental and physical health and well being start to suffer. it is much easier (well not easy, but easier..) to head it off than to try to get back to a state of normalcy once you have crossed that line to sleep deprivation insanity. it can get so hard. do you have support? i never thought i would do this before my son was at least verbal, but i had to take him to my mom's for an overnight one night at 8 mos old for my own health and sanity- having a sleep disorder doesn't help in my case, since i feel sleep deprivation even moreso and have a greater need for sleep and stability of schedule, but i was getting to a place where it was the best option. i hope that you have or can find resources to utilize- a pp doula or mother's helper, your partner, extended family, friends, etc. even having a friend or relative come over to play with kiddo or take him on a walk while i napped for a couple hours was a lifesaver, but again, it can be so hard once that sleep deficit builds up to think things through clearly and figure out how to accurately assess the situation and make sure everyone's needs are met. i find that my immune system really suffers and i get sick all the time when i am not sleeping well, also recently found out i had a thyroid condition and got medication for that which seems to be helping a bit, and resumed seeing my counselor more often for the time being, got a massage, etc. the little things add up-- but i know it is not easy and sometimes you wonder when it will ever end.

i have read the no cry sleep solution, i just feel like it takes so much work/persistence/motivation to implement and when you are already so busy and sleep deprived and stressed it can be hard to find your inner reserves to follow through.. like, when i know the second i set my son down on the bed (we generally cosleep) he will in all likelihood wake up and get upset and have to start all over, some nights i just say screw it and stay up late wearing him in the sling or bouncing him while nursing and wasting time.. not ideal at all, strains my back which is already bad and reinforces bad habits, but i just don't know if i have it in me to start trying to implement all these things- even the basic sleep logs were so unorganized and hard to keep together when i was doing it; but i do intend and hope to give it another go around- have you read or tried NCSS?

keep us posted and hang in there mama!







hope this makes sense somewhat, i am exhausted..

eta: ok nvm on the pp doula, i see your little one is older.. in my sleep deprivation i saw the "four months" in your post and somehow my brain interpreted that your babe was younger than really is- but still help in any form is a good thing! other than that no words of wisdom, just







s







s







s


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## LisaN (Mar 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *coleybug* 
I wonder if my dairy consumption affects him&#8230;I'm going to give up as dairy and see if it makes any difference.







mamas!


I realized my son was allergic to dairy when he was 3 months old and was only getting it through my breast milk. It definitely comes through. Get off ALL dairy (including butted and in bread) and you may see a dramatic difference. I did. Check out www.godairyfree.org. good luck!

That's not to say I have a good sleeper by any means, but at least his tummy doesn't hurt.


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LisaN* 
I realized my son was allergic to dairy when he was 3 months old and was only getting it through my breast milk. It definitely comes through. Get off ALL dairy (including butted and in bread) and you may see a dramatic difference. I did. Check out www.godairyfree.org. good luck!

That's not to say I have a good sleeper by any means, but at least his tummy doesn't hurt.

So funny, I JUST came on here to post about my experience the past week with dairy issues.
Since DD was 3 months I figured out she was allergic to cows milk protein through my milk also, so I stopped everything and she's been fine except when small instances of dairy slip through, like the bread I have been eating. I don't know why I didn't think about it earlier but I just switched our bread this past 2 weeks because they didn't have the regular stuff I get and the new one was locally made and fresh. I checked the ingredients and the first 3 include butter and milk...duh....
The past fortnight has been a lot of DD waking constantly throughout the night because of her molars coming through but also she has had a lot of gas, only at night and I couldn't figure out where she was getting it from. Glad I figured it out, hopefully we will start to have some slightly better nights now.

Definitely something every Mama in here should double check isn't a problem with you or your LO!


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Hi ladies. It's been pretty rough here lately. We all caught a cold and because I'm running on empty, my cold turned into pneumonia. I'm slowly getting better, but it really freaks me out - how can I keep my immune system strong when I'm only getting a few hours sleep a night? There's no improvement in DS, no end in sight....no apparent reason for his night wakings. Also, he's really really really tired now too. He never used to be bothered by the night wakings, but all of a sudden he's tired, and I feel SO bad about that.

I'm probably going to night wean early, but he doesn't really wake to nurse, he just wakes, and nursing is one quick way to get him back to sleep. So in some ways I'm nervous to night wean in case he still continues to wake only I won't be able to get him back to sleep easily.

Sigh.


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Louisep* 
Hi ladies. It's been pretty rough here lately. We all caught a cold and because I'm running on empty, my cold turned into pneumonia. I'm slowly getting better, but it really freaks me out - how can I keep my immune system strong when I'm only getting a few hours sleep a night? There's no improvement in DS, no end in sight....no apparent reason for his night wakings. Also, he's really really really tired now too. He never used to be bothered by the night wakings, but all of a sudden he's tired, and I feel SO bad about that.

I'm probably going to night wean early, but he doesn't really wake to nurse, he just wakes, and nursing is one quick way to get him back to sleep. So in some ways I'm nervous to night wean in case he still continues to wake only I won't be able to get him back to sleep easily.

Sigh.

Oh Mama I'm so sorry







I hope you feel better quickly!

Do you think he's waking because you are there? Have you tried putting him in his own bed, I"m sure you have, are the waking's just as frequent? I"m wondering about DD now because she still takes a 2-hr undisturbed nap everyday but at night, like the past 2 nights, she has been waking every 10 mins at some points. I'm wondering if I should rearrange our room and get rid of our beloved bed frame







DH won't like that!
Just an idea, I hope things get better!


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## beingmommy (Sep 4, 2008)

Oh my god! My DS is impossible! He is 29 motnhs old and the best sleep fighter I have ever known!!! I cannot take it anymore. I need sleep! I need a break! I just do not know what to do anymore. He absolutely WILL NOT FALL ASLEEP unless I wear him in our Ergo and walk him while nursing. I cannot lie him down when he is awake or he will roll and laugh and kick and stay awake FOR HOURS!!!! He has been like this since he was 5 months old. THERE IS NO END IN SIGHT!!!! Everyone kept telling me he'll be better at 12 months (NOT), 18 months (NOT), 2 years (NOT) 2.5 years (APPARENTLY NOT!!!!).

I have just spent 1.5 hours walking and nursing him in the Ergo (which is getting really hard because he is getting heavy) and another 30 minutes lying with him in the bed and he is still laughing and NOT SLEEPING!!!

I have read SLeepless in America. HA HA HA HA HA!!!!! Sleep Window my ass! He HAS NO SLEEP WINDOW!!! I can take him off to bed when he is crying and falling down tired or pleasantly sleepy or cranky and tantrumy and there is not rhyme or reason to it. Some nights it takes 15 minutes. Some nights it takes 3 hours. I cannot take it anymore.

NO ONE ELSE CAN PUT HIM TO BED BECAUSE HE WANTS CONSTANT BOOB!

I am sick of it. I just got SO frustrated I said very loudly and meanly (as he kicked me in the groin for the 100th time), "GO TO SLEEP!" and he just started yelling, GLEEFULLY, "GO SLEEP! GO SLEEP!"

I think I have created a monster. He also still wakes me frequently at night either with his thrashing about or wanting to nurse. I rarely get more than 2 hours at a time. And on a night like tonight? I am now SO PISSED OFF and my cortisol level is so high I am pretty much guaranteed to have insomnia all night. It is what always happens.

I am so far past my breaking point I don't even know what my breaking point looks like.

He is now crying on the bed with his dad. Crying for me. Guess it's time to go back.

ETA: Wow. I just read that whole thing and I sound like a crazy person. I guess this is what reaching your breaking point is. I just wish I knew WHEN this will get better. I've been waiting and sleep deprived for 2 years and there is no end in sight. I use to want another baby. I think tonight has cinched it that DS is going to be an only child.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Oh beingmommy I feel for you, I really do. Your little boy is so lucky to have you. My patience has run out and my DS is only ten months.

I don't see how we created bad sleepers though. Although I torment myself with this too.

It's so sad but I think I'm close to ruling out siblings too.

Ugh. Why won't they sleep???!!!!


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## beingmommy (Sep 4, 2008)

Thanks, Louisep! It is so sweet of you to say I am a good momma. We all need to hear that sometimes. Don't worry about feeling at the end of your rope at 10.5 months. I have been many times. It's definitely getting worse as my DS gets older just because I think my sleep deficit is so huge now.

I know logically it can't be something I am doing but sometimes I just get so frustrated and wonder why everyone else seesm to have kids that are sleeping, if not perfectly, at least not nearly as badly as mine! But I wouldn't do anything differently. I believe co-sleeping is good and letting my DS nurse when he needs to. I just wish he would sleep better. I could be a much better momma if I had some sleep.


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## libertymom (Jul 1, 2008)

Being mommy~ I have not even read the thread yet but I totally feel your pain. I am on baby #4, he is going to be 1 in 2 weeks and will not sleep without a boobie in his mouth and wakes every 30 min at night to nurse. My twin boys are now 5 and are still terrible sleepers. It takes them FOREVER to fall asleep and they still need me right beside them to do it. My little girl, on the other hand, doesn't have the clingyness my 3 boys have.

What makes me mad is all of my mainstream momma friends who put their kids in their rooms in their own beds at 7pm and tell them not to come out until they see the sun, all have very happy kids who are not sleep deprived like mine are


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## tigermiep (Dec 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *libertymom* 
What makes me mad is all of my mainstream momma friends who put their kids in their rooms in their own beds at 7pm and tell them not to come out until they see the sun, all have very happy kids who are not sleep deprived like mine are









this. though, I don't have that many mainstream mama friends.

my coworker whose son is 3 mos younger than my boyo is dealing with waking every 45 min to an hour to nurse -- he's not waking up, just rooting, but SHE wakes up, even just for a couple of minutes -- so my every hour and a half to two hours two or three nights a week, coupled with now not going down until almost 9, only napping on someone else or maybe for 20 minutes next to us on the couch, and being up for 1 1/2 hours at least once most nights, sounds mild. Her boy will take naps on his own, though.









this week has been hard again -- after last weekend's blissful sleep, we have had several nights of being up 4 or 5 times, or else being up 2 times between 11 and 6, and then up for the day. He seems fine, but kind of tired during the day. Tonight, it's been up and down all night, and this time, he kept waking out of a solid sleep when I lay him down, so we're nursing hard right now in the hopes of a couple more hours. If I could just sleep those last two hours between 5:30 and 7:30 with him in the mornings, I'd be in great shape, but he goes back to sleep finally, and I have to be up for the day by 6...

good thing he's cute. otherwise, I'd have to eat him.


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## penstamon (Nov 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tigermiep* 
good thing he's cute. otherwise, I'd have to eat him.









Yeah... I've thought this myself a number of times...

I think I finally have to sub to this thread because I really need some support to keep myself on this side of the breaking point.

Wow, who knew it could keep getting so much worse. Last night was just horrible and I just don't know how to cope or what to do anymore. DS was up to eat at least 6 times last night (up from anywhere between 1-3 times on a regular night). He was so upset- screaming- and just couldn't stay asleep for more than an hour at a time. We tried putting him to sleep in the co-sleeper, leaving him on his side after nursing, on DH's chest, in our arms, etc. Every night has been worse than the last and I haven't slept well in at least two weeks.

He is four months and I have heard about the four month sleep regression, I have heard about teething, I have heard about reverse cycling, being overtired, early bedtimes, etc, etc. BUT nothing is helping. He has been getting worse since he was 2 months. He's happy during the day and naps regularly. We have maybe had one or two "regular" nights in the last two weeks. The pedi, friends, family are all telling us to move him into another room, bottle feed, CIO, etc. DH keeps saying he wants to try.

I am just losing my mind. I dread going to bed. I have insomnia and it takes me and hour or more to fall asleep sometimes- then he is up again 10 minutes later.









Please tell me it will get better. Please?


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## jewelsJZ (Jan 10, 2008)

penstamon, it just might get better. Our almost 1 y.o. horrible sleeper is starting to get better. He still wakes up but not a million times per night. He's now been down to two times per night for about a week and a half. Really hoping I am not jinxing myself by saying that.

Also wanted to comment to all the mommas on this thread who are considering not having any more children due to their sleep challenged LO's. Take a survey of all the moms you know who have sleep challenged children. How many of their kids had these troubles? I myself have never met anyone who had more than one child who had these issues. Not saying it isn't possible, but I bet it's a pretty low percentage. For me, my first two were great sleepers. It is only our third who thinks sleep is for other people, not him.







Had he been our first, I would've hesitated myself to have more, but am so glad I had the size family I wanted.

Another glimmer of hope: My best friend's first baby was a horrible sleeper. She tried everything. But he is almost 6 years old now and he is a great sleeper.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jewelsJZ* 
penstamon, it just might get better. Our almost 1 y.o. horrible sleeper is starting to get better. He still wakes up but not a million times per night. He's now been down to two times per night for about a week and a half. Really hoping I am not jinxing myself by saying that.

Also wanted to comment to all the mommas on this thread who are considering not having any more children due to their sleep challenged LO's. Take a survey of all the moms you know who have sleep challenged children. How many of their kids had these troubles? I myself have never met anyone who had more than one child who had these issues. Not saying it isn't possible, but I bet it's a pretty low percentage. For me, my first two were great sleepers. It is only our third who thinks sleep is for other people, not him.







Had he been our first, I would've hesitated myself to have more, but am so glad I had the size family I wanted.

Another glimmer of hope: My best friend's first baby was a horrible sleeper. She tried everything. But he is almost 6 years old now and he is a great sleeper.

Thanks for the encouragement. We've had no improvement in 6 months. I thought walking would be the key, but it hasn't been. I wake every morning saying "something has got to change"! Right now, we're working on DS getting used to DH comforting him in preparation for night weaning at 12 months. My hope is we will then be able to trade off nights with each other.


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## beingmommy (Sep 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jewelsJZ* 
Also wanted to comment to all the mommas on this thread who are considering not having any more children due to their sleep challenged LO's. Take a survey of all the moms you know who have sleep challenged children. How many of their kids had these troubles? I myself have never met anyone who had more than one child who had these issues. Not saying it isn't possible, but I bet it's a pretty low percentage. For me, my first two were great sleepers. It is only our third who thinks sleep is for other people, not him.







Had he been our first, I would've hesitated myself to have more, but am so glad I had the size family I wanted.

Another glimmer of hope: My best friend's first baby was a horrible sleeper. She tried everything. But he is almost 6 years old now and he is a great sleeper.

Thanks for this. I really do want one more child. I want my DS to have a sibling. I am just so sleep deprived I just don't know when it will get better enough for me to even consider getting pregnant.


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

It is currently 2am and my 13.5 month DD is wide awake running around the house as happy as can be.









Everytime my DH switches from days to nights, every 3 months, she has followed him and switched her schedule too. She just did it again, this morning will be DH's first day back at work on days..he is currently getting ready to go. I was so happy she had switched, I don't force it, I let her go by her own rhythm and it happened just like I knew it would. She has been ready for bed around 8pm the past 3 nights now, but has been waking every 10 mins for hours and then every hour outside of that. Tonight she went down again at 815pm, took me 10 mins to get her to sleep. She woke 45 mins later which she has done every night this week, I nursed her back down again.
I managed to get a whole hour with DH watching The Office online.








We went to bed at 1030pm, the second I got in the bed she woke up, I nursed her both sides but she was awake. She was clearly uncomfortable, kept throwing herself all over the bed, whimpering and popping on and off my completely empty boobs. I tried to get her back to sleep for the next 2.5 hours and finally gave up at 1am when I was so far past my breaking point I wanted to put my hand through a wall, scream at the top of my lungs and throw DD across the room...I am SO exhausted from the past few weeks, this was beyond my ability to handle. It feels like torture, as I have described before, because my body is so drained and exhausted it keeps trying to fall asleep but my mind won't let me because she is still awake so there is a constant battle all night long between me and myself, and it's so exhausting.
She is still up now, I don't know why, but she is FINE. She had a big poop 30 mins ago so I'm assuming that has something to do with it, but now I'm going to have to wake us both up early tomorrow just so that she will stay on a day schedule.









Freaking shoot me...I can't do this, everytime I get my hopes up it's coming to an end, it gets worse...it's just bull. I'm SOOOO done..I don't care what I have to do, I can't go through this anymore, I'm becoming a monster.


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

It is currently 2am and my 13.5 month DD is wide awake running around the house as happy as can be.









Everytime my DH switches from days to nights, every 3 months, she has followed him and switched her schedule too. She just did it again, this morning will be DH's first day back at work on days..he is currently getting ready to go. I was so happy she had switched, I don't force it, I let her go by her own rhythm and it happened just like I knew it would. She has been ready for bed around 8pm the past 3 nights now, but has been waking every 10 mins for hours and then every hour outside of that. Tonight she went down again at 815pm, took me 10 mins to get her to sleep. She woke 45 mins later which she has done every night this week, I nursed her back down again.
I managed to get a whole hour with DH watching The Office online.








We went to bed at 1030pm, the second I got in the bed she woke up, I nursed her both sides but she was awake. She was clearly uncomfortable, kept throwing herself all over the bed, whimpering and popping on and off my completely empty boobs. I tried to get her back to sleep for the next 2.5 hours and finally gave up at 1am when I was so far past my breaking point I wanted to put my hand through a wall, scream at the top of my lungs and throw DD across the room...I am SO exhausted from the past few weeks, this was beyond my ability to handle. It feels like torture, as I have described before, because my body is so drained and exhausted it keeps trying to fall asleep but my mind won't let me because she is still awake so there is a constant battle all night long between me and myself, and it's so exhausting.
She is still up now, I don't know why, but she is FINE. She had a big poop 30 mins ago so I'm assuming that has something to do with it, but now I'm going to have to wake us both up early tomorrow just so that she will stay on a day schedule.









Freaking shoot me...I can't do this, everytime I get my hopes up it's coming to an end, it gets worse...it's just bull. I'm SOOOO done..I don't care what I have to do, I can't go through this anymore, I'm becoming a monster.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

LL13, hang in there! From your PPs it sounds like your LO goes through these phases, so just remember, you'll come out the other side. I know how you're feeling though, it's so tough. Lots of hugs.


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## tigermiep (Dec 13, 2007)

ll13, how are you feeling today? did things go any better? were you able to rest when she finally crashed?

i think we might be getting ready to go to bed, finally! it's 1 am, and boyo woke up at 9:30 after almost 2 hours. and then he was UP. up up up. he seems to really be needing the ibuprofin to help him sleep these days -- i think there must be some molars on their way in. we had 2 nights with good long stretches in a row, when I remembered to dose him up, so I gave in and gave him some a little bit ago. he just dropped off after our 4th nursing session, so I'm running up to bed while I can!


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## tigermiep (Dec 13, 2007)

hi. would someone please explain to my son that it is time to SLEEP? and that when he is asleep, mommy should be able to put him into his bed and have him stay asleep?

and that his bedtime is NOT 11 pm! *My* bedtime is before that!

grrr. last night was not so nice, either. he woke up again at 2, and then he did sleep for a good stretch, but by then it was too late. he woke up at 5 and we got up at 7:30 for the day. I'm worried that he isn;t getting the sleep he needs.


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## heavensearth (Oct 10, 2009)

Oh man, last night/this morning was torture... im freaking out! I go back to work in two weeks!!! I dont know how im going to be able to work like this








DS woke up every 1.5-2 hours screaming at the top of his lungs







he's been teething for what seems like months now, but the last couple of weeks have been bag. We did give him some Motrin instead of Tylenol to see if that would help with them pain, but he was still waking up. I would nurse him and DH would rock him back to sleep and then 1.5-2 hours later he's up again. I pray that this is a one time occurance. Last night was honestly the hardest night we have ever had with him, he's 11 months old now, I thought it would get better soon..


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## tigermiep (Dec 13, 2007)

heavensearth, it has to be a stage. My 11 month old is doing the same thing a couple of nights a week. is he getting his molars, do you think? will he sleep on you or sitting up in a chair with you or DH?

DS is sleeping right now. we are getting 1 good stretch a night again now, but I'm still only getting 4 - 6 hours of broken sleep a night.


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## heavensearth (Oct 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tigermiep* 
heavensearth, it has to be a stage. My 11 month old is doing the same thing a couple of nights a week. is he getting his molars, do you think? will he sleep on you or sitting up in a chair with you or DH?

DS is sleeping right now. we are getting 1 good stretch a night again now, but I'm still only getting 4 - 6 hours of broken sleep a night.

I am so relieved to hear that someone else is going through this! his gums are extremely swollen, never seen them like this before.

He still hasnt slept much, maybe two hours today...

We're going to try to alternate between Tylenol and Motrin and see if he can get some relief. Its so not like us to use drugs on him like this but I feel like we have no other option







the teething tabs and homeopathic meds aren't working at all.

DS will sleep in our arms for a bit, its just getting him to that point.. normally he would have no problem sleeping in our arms for hours!

Im glad to hear that you are getting some rest though


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

Hello ladies..
Sorry I haven't checked in for a while, I've been having a really hard time








The lack of decent sleep and constant non-eating-nursing took it's toll on me and I got mastitis yesterday







I'm feeling much, much better today since taking Grapefruit Seed Extract though









heavensearth and tigermiep I have been going through that same stage for what seems like 2 months now, waking every 1-2 hours, every night and nursing back down doesn't work every time either. DD is almost 14 months now and has been pushing 4 molars through these past 2 months, I am PRAYING AND HOPING that this will lighten up again once they are through, it did last time at least for a week or 2.

Tylenol and Motrin don't work for DD either. I gave up on it, even if it does stop most of the pain she still wakes every 2 hours uncomfortable and whimpering. I've been giving her a lot of camomile tea which she loves to help the pain and soothe her sleep better, and lately I've been burning lavender EO around bedtime.

My MIL sent me an amber necklace for her. I think jewelry for babies is a dumb idea but I've heard it can really help so I'm almost tempted to try it.

SLEEP VIBES for all!


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## crabbyowl (May 6, 2008)

LeoneLover13, mine is almost 14 months too and I'm going through the same thing. For the past week or so she's either been waking up constantly, or sleeping for longer periods but also being up for long periods (at least an hour, sometimes closer to 2) with every waking. For the past 2 nights she's combined the two, plus she's started getting up at 6 AM, about 1.5 hours earlier than usual.









I've noticed that her gums are enormously swollen, so hopefully those pesky teeth will come through soon and give both of us a break.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Yep, I've been silently "suffering"







too. It's worse than it's ever been and I'm still sick. Thankfully the pneumonia has gone but I have a chronic sore throat. The doc is treating it with more antibiotics. UGH. I hate antibiotics, but I have to get better.

DS's gums aren't really sore but I swear he's working on his molars. He had 3 days in a row where he woke up screaming and then last night, no crying. Between 9:30 and 11:30pm he was awake, but we both just lay there until he fell asleep. Then, I THINK we slept until 3am, but I can't be sure since I often forget the wakings. He hasn't had a period of sleep that long since 5 months. I think I'm going to try this approach more - just keep laying him back down until he falls asleep by himself. I tried nursing first and it didn't work. We've been going long periods of time without nursing at night - kind of partially child-led, partially mama-led. I was massively engorged this morning so I probably should read up on partial night weaning. I'm not pushing it, just taking advantage of his "whatever" attitude when it comes to nursing.


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## tigermiep (Dec 13, 2007)

BLARGH!!! worst night in a while. 1-2 hour stretches, with 30 to 45 min awakenings in between, plus, except for one stretch of 1 hour around 8:30 pm, and from 11 to 1 am, HE WOULD ONLY SLEEP ON ME. we don't usually bedshare any more -- he slept in a sidecar until 7 months, but we moved him out as he sleeps better not in our room... most of the time.

and now he's wide awake and happily banging on a dvd box.

maybe we should just be a community of non-sleeping moms. a new tribe of the Sleep? Who needs sleep? variety. only, I need sleep. I feel like I should just quit my job, as I can't do it very well on so little sleep, but then I'm the main income earner in our family, so that's not really an option.

DS screams when I try to put him in his bed.


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## Louisep (May 1, 2009)

Ugh, sorry tigermiep. Just a quick reply to say we had an "okay" night. Of course, he woke about 6 times but that's better than 10 right?! Anyway, I wondered if it was because I put his amber teething necklace back on him? Worth a try if you haven't got one!


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## tigermiep (Dec 13, 2007)

Louisep -- we're borrowing one from a friend, but he tends to try to chew on it, and that's not a good idea.


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## lizzylou (Jul 11, 2006)

I just found this thread. My 15 mo. son isn't the worst sleeper out there, but he's challenging and I am definitely at my breaking point! In a perfect world, all I want is for him to sleep until 7am and I want consistent naptime. I won't even ask for STTN - he's up usually only twice a night which I realize is not too bad. I don't mind night nursing as long as he goes back to sleep (sometimes he doesn't.... and that really pushes me to the brink).

I realize that our sleep issues are not that terrible relatively speaking. I might be able to handle them better except that he can be really challenging the rest of the time, too.

When we have a difficult day (like today) I feel so disconnected from him. And I really feel like I am doing both of us a huge disservice by not helping him get the sleep he needs. I question everything I do.

I wonder if it would help to have a very consistent schedule (we only have a fairly consistent bedtime) but I just feel overwhelmed by that.

I want another baby but I am terrified by the possibility that DS will still be having issues a year from now.


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## heavensearth (Oct 10, 2009)

Its been a few weeks since I last posted and we may have a breakthrough! Sebastian is getting much easier to put to sleep now, sometimes he just falls asleep in our arms and we're able to put him in his crib. He's sleeping longer too, some nights five hours straight! we're not 'cured' (last night he played from 12 - 3am) but we're doing much better thankfully as I went back to work two weeks ago.

Hugs for all the other sleep deprived mama's!


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