# Watch your girls!!!! Please!



## pfamilygal (Feb 28, 2005)

Just had to share the scary thing I saw at work over the weekend. We had a 12 year old come in complaining of abdominal pain. After testing and examination we determined that she had Pelvic Inflammatory Disease. Here chlamydia cultures came back positive. We were freaking out. She denied having sex and we were suspecting maybe she had been abused.

Finally we asked the mom if we could talk to the child alone. She admitted that she goes to "bracelet" parties and thinks she might have gotten "sick" there. Apparently the girls wear a bunch of colored bracelets and the boy chooses one at random off her wrist with his eyes closed. Each color corresponds to a different sex act (oral, vaginal, etc). The boy and girl then go into another room to do their assigned act. Kind of like a really promiscuous "spin the bottle."

The girl admitted that she had gone to several of these parties a month for the last year, and didn't know how many boys she'd had relations with. We ended up having to call CPS about the situation per state law (must report STDs). IMO - if your daughter is going to unsupervised parties of this nature in middle school you need to get your act together!

My mom was one of the ones who rarely let us go to parties. She always called and talked to the host's parents to make sure there was good supervison and would volunteer to help chaperone. I plan on being the same sort of mom myself. Heck, I may only let the kids have guests here. That way I am watching them.

This poor girl may end up being infertile because of the damage to her young reproductive system. How sad and stupid. I just wanted to shake her mama and tell her to start watching her child! Yuck.


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## aprons_and_acorns (Sep 28, 2004)

I had heard about this but assumed it was an urban myth. I mean honestly, I can't imagine teenage girls going along with something like that. I guess I am naive.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Everything I've read and heard from real-life teens is that this is an urban legend. here are two articles:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar..._bracelets.htm
http://www.snopes.com/risque/school/bracelet.asp

I think it's more likely that this girl was sexually abused, and had heard the myths about the bracelets and made up that story to explain her symptoms.

dar


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## pfamilygal (Feb 28, 2005)

I doubt she just made it up or used a story. She seemed very confident about it and kept giggling like it was no big deal. Usually the girls who are abused do not act the way she did (of course, not everyone reacts the same). I could be wrong, but she seemed very different in front on her mom and in front of us. Once her mom left the room she talked very graphically about sex and was far more knowledgable than I would expect. Most abused children usually act ashamed and you have to be very careful and roundabout about the questions. She came right out and said it with no shame or embarrassment.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

According to my 15 year old boy - these parties do happen, that he's heard from people that have gone to them.


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## dziejen (May 23, 2004)

That is awful. Thanks for sharing. I continue to be amazed by how fast kids try to grow up these days and the things that happen







Makes me never want to let my girls out of my sight.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pfamilygal*
I doubt she just made it up or used a story. She seemed very confident about it and kept giggling like it was no big deal. Usually the girls who are abused do not act the way she did (of course, not everyone reacts the same). I could be wrong, but she seemed very different in front on her mom and in front of us. Once her mom left the room she talked very graphically about sex and was far more knowledgable than I would expect. Most abused children usually act ashamed and you have to be very careful and roundabout about the questions. She came right out and said it with no shame or embarrassment.


'giggling like it was no big deal"? Giggling from embarassment, maybe.

Now we are supposed to beleive this girl is a slut on top of it all? There is so much more going on for teens than this.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HelloKitty*
According to my 15 year old boy - these parties do happen, that he's heard from people that have gone to them.

I have *grilled* a few teens on this-- and they say no. At least not where we live.

And you know, lots of 15 yr old boys tell each other they do a whole lot of stuff they only do in the privacy of their own bathrooms. With Rosie Palm.

"But Mom, everyone is doing it!"


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## annie3mom (Sep 1, 2005)

I have never heard of the parties for doing it but I have heard from two teens about the bracelets. Some of the meanings are kissing, french kissing, oral sex, sex, making out, kissing naked...........its like some ongoing game I am told, for boys to try to break the girls bracelets


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## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

It happened because the media made it happen.

I never heard of it before the media circus came about.

Hmmmmm......


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I have heard both... that it is rumor, and that it is actually happening. If I had to guess, and I do duh, I would say that like many other "urban legends" and rumors it does have an element of truth to it. Perhaps a very small element, but who knows. Also, if it started as total crap some teens could have decided to run with it.







I dunno.

I really hope that girl recovers quickly


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## Logan'smommy (Jun 13, 2005)

I work in a children’s psychiatric hospital and this is not an urban legend. It may not be going on in your town yet, but it is happening. Maybe the media gave them the idea who knows but to be vigilant with "our" children is key!


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I just talked with Ds who has heard of it all over the forums he visits. Those kids could be full of it he said but it seems unlikely that all of them are. Ick.


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

The media oftentimes does more harm than good... glue-sniffing only became popular after the media published articles on it that included pictures about how to get highest while sniffing it! I never heard of bracelet parties when I was younger (I'm 22 now), but I was very naive in middle and high school.

love and peace.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Which means that girls 'giggling like it's no big deal' are most likely in desperate pain. We should pay heed to the giggling of little girls who have been on this earth little more than a decade, and not assume they are sluts who 'want it' and giggle because they are without 'morals'.

While it comforts us to think that 12 yr old girls 'getting it' and giving blow jobs left and right (which I do doubt) do it so they can have multi-colored braclets, and have no morals, our culture needs to look beyond the media sound bites that reduce little girls to uncaring giggling whores.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Did someone here actually say that little girls are giggling whores







, or were you just commenting about society in general?


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## pfamilygal (Feb 28, 2005)

Wow - didn't mean to spark a riot. I NEVER said anyone was a whore or that she "wanted it." UUmom - I wonder if you are reacting to something else you have heard or other feelings you have. I said she giggled like it was no big deal because she laughed and said "it's just sex." This is a 6th grader for goodness sake!

I was shocked actually. I don't naturally assume that 12 yr olds are sexually active (whether it is blow jobs or anything else). I didn't even want to kiss boys at that age and I certainly wouldn't have wanted to give a boy oral sex. I had a 16 yr old patient with pubic lice a few weeks ago who didn't even know how many "holes" she had down there or what came out of each one. I had to draw her a freaking diagram. I asked if she was having vaginal discharge and she said "you mean 'cum'?" She also said, "I really hope it's just crabs and not an STD." Holy cow. Never thought I'd hear those words.

My whole point in posting was to remind folks: know where your kids are, who they are with and what they are doing. Make sure they know about sex and touching and aware of the risks involved.

I have a personal bias against any teaching that says that sex is amoral. It is a moral choice and when we start telling our kids "Yes. You CAN make good choices. I believe in you. You can delay sexual activity" we will find that they can abstain from or delay intercourse. I taught high school for a year and was shocked at the attitude that many of my kids had. "Ya know, Mrs. P., it's not like you can not have sex. It's like your body needs sex." I'm not sure some of my kids even knew that not having sex was a good and wise choice. It broke my heart knowing that many of them will contract STDs or have pregnancies before their lives even have a chance to take off.

A moral choice doesn't have to be religious in nature. Being temperate, punctual and thoughtful are not necessarilly religious values. But having these moral characteristics will help you get ahead in life. Just as delaying sex will help you avoid STDs and pregnancies: two things that can certainly change your life.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
Did someone here actually say that little girls are giggling whores







, or were you just commenting about society in general?

Nobody actually said it. But i absolutely did get that impression from the OP., as she said the 12 yr old was giggling like it was 'no big deal'.

I was also reacting to a society which thinks little girls really do giggle happily and blow off STDs. Girls who have sex and giggle are thought of as whores. Why else would the OP present it that way?

Perhaps the OP didn't mean the little girl was giggling because she thought having sex with lots of boys, and getting a STD was no big thing to her.

The OP seemed to be making a lot of assumptions about the girls actual feelings, so I need clarification on what she meant by what she posted.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pfamilygal*
Wow - didn't mean to spark a riot. I NEVER said anyone was a whore or that she "wanted it." UUmom - I wonder if you are reacting to something else you have heard or other feelings you have. I said she giggled like it was no big deal because she laughed and said "it's just sex." This is a 6th grader for goodness sake!

I was shocked actually. I don't naturally assume that 12 yr olds are sexually active (whether it is blow jobs or anything else). I didn't even want to kiss boys at that age and I certainly wouldn't have wanted to give a boy oral sex. I had a 16 yr old patient with pubic lice a few weeks ago who didn't even know how many "holes" she had down there or what came out of each one. I had to draw her a freaking diagram. I asked if she was having vaginal discharge and she said "you mean 'cum'?" She also said, "I really hope it's just crabs and not an STD." Holy cow. Never thought I'd hear those words.

My whole point in posting was to remind folks: know where your kids are, who they are with and what they are doing. Make sure they know about sex and touching and aware of the risks involved.

I have a personal bias against any teaching that says that sex is amoral. It is a moral choice and when we start telling our kids "Yes. You CAN make good choices. I believe in you. You can delay sexual activity" we will find that they can abstain from or delay intercourse. I taught high school for a year and was shocked at the attitude that many of my kids had. "Ya know, Mrs. P., it's not like you can not have sex. It's like your body needs sex." I'm not sure some of my kids even knew that not having sex was a good and wise choice. It broke my heart knowing that many of them will contract STDs or have pregnancies before their lives even have a chance to take off.

A moral choice doesn't have to be religious in nature. Being temperate, punctual and thoughtful are not necessarilly religious values. But having these moral characteristics will help you get ahead in life. Just as delaying sex will help you avoid STDs and pregnancies: two things that can certainly change your life.

I do not think that 'it's only sex!" is in any 12 yr old child's heart.

I think we need to take better care of our children so that they can love themselves enough not to have sex with every boy in the 6th grade for a gummy bracelet. I also doubt most 12 yr old girls are all that eager to give a bunch of 12 yr old boys oral sex. It might be fun for adults, but i doubt there are all that many 6th grade girls eagerly hoping this is how their night will end. This goes far beyond 'knowing where your kids is''.

I am giving you the beneift of the doubt, since children are more sexually active today, but i really don't think a child in pain would truly think it's funny to have an STD.


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## kama'aina mama (Nov 19, 2001)

I would assume that the bracelets in question are those rubber bracelets a la the Lance Armstrong one? Am I wrong? If so they have really only been around a bit over a year, I think.


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## De-lovely (Jan 8, 2005)

UNBELIEVABLE! I def. the mom must be in la-la land at some point you can recognize some sort of premiscuous behavior.Thank God seriously that my babies are only 21 mos and 9 mos..........How sad!

I just wonder what the girl is missing in life?


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eemamahob*
UNBELIEVABLE! I def. the mom must be in la-la land at some point you can recognize some sort of premiscuous behavior.Thank God seriously that my babies are only 21 mos and 9 mos..........How sad!

I just wonder what the girl is missing in life?










That's what I think. This is about a whole lot more than just 'watching our girls'. One starts to think about the mental stability of a *child* who laughs at sex and painful sexual diseases. It's easier for us to think that such a child is hearltess about her needs and about sex.

We don't know enough about this child to draw any conclusions.

I am agreeing with what Dar said at the get go of this thread. Of course, i have been agreeing with Dar for about a decade now. lol


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

UUmom, while I agree with a lot of what you've had to say here I think it might be a touch nieve about the level of sexual activity among pre-teens and teens. Not everyone is doing it, of course, but the reality is that many many teens are having sex, oral and otherwise for a variety of reasons. I can't be sure as to what all of those reasons are but I know that for me it was a combination of not having a high enough self esteem to differentiate sexual attention from "want to get to know you better" interest (ie, boys liked my body and I thought that meant they liked me. Confusing emotion for lust etc)


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
UUmom, while I agree with a lot of what you've had to say here I think it might be a touch nieve about the level of sexual activity among pre-teens and teens. Not everyone is doing it, of course, but the reality is that many many teens are having sex, oral and otherwise for a variety of reasons. I can't be sure as to what all of those reasons are but I know that for me it was a combination of not having a high enough self esteem to differentiate sexual attention from "want to get to know you better" interest (ie, boys liked my body and I thought that meant they liked me. Confusing emotion for lust etc)

\

I think 12 yr olds are sexual beings, but i don't think 12 yr olds are really about multiple partners and laughing off STDs. Wanting love and doing every boy you know for a gummy band, no matter if you like him, isn't about simple sexual desire.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kama'aina mama*
I would assume that the bracelets in question are those rubber bracelets a la the Lance Armstrong one? Am I wrong? If so they have really only been around a bit over a year, I think.

No, they're the skinny little ones that were big during the eighties, like these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=92727

My daughter is wearing 10 or 12 of them right now, red and black...

Dar


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

But, I don't think 12 year olds are mature enough to really understand STDs and the long term implications. And, the fact that it really could happen to them, not just "someone else way out there somewhere." What they understand is that it's cool to be cool and if everyone else is giving blow jobs at parties, why not them? No big deal... They may think they're sophisticated but emotionally they're still so young & naive. Peer pressure is pretty strong and I can totally see some young teens laughing about it just as they'd laugh among their friends; ie. their cliques.

On that note, I'm just starting to read Hold on to Your Kids. Heard it recommended here.

ANd, of course, I mean some, not all, by any means. Just saying it could be possible.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kama'aina mama*
I would assume that the bracelets in question are those rubber bracelets a la the Lance Armstrong one? Am I wrong? If so they have really only been around a bit over a year, I think.

I'm pretty sure they're talking about the jelly bracelets.

I graduated high school in '98 and (in my area) the bracelets were just getting popular. Back then it was more of a joke than anything. I didn't know a single person who used them.

~Nay


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pfamilygal*

A moral choice doesn't have to be religious in nature. Being temperate, punctual and thoughtful are not necessarilly religious values. But having these moral characteristics will help you get ahead in life. Just as delaying sex will help you avoid STDs and pregnancies: two things that can certainly change your life.

That is a fantastic quote! A real gem







Any way you'd let me quote that on my website? You can remain anonymous or use initials, real name, whatever.

~Nay


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BusyMommy*
But, I don't think 12 year olds are mature enough to really understand STDs and the long term implications. And, the fact that it really could happen to them, not just "someone else way out there somewhere." What they understand is that it's cool to be cool and if everyone else is giving blow jobs at parties, why not them? No big deal... They may think they're sophisticated but emotionally they're still so young & naive. Peer pressure is pretty strong and I can totally see some young teens laughing about it just as they'd laugh among their friends; ie. their cliques.

On that note, I'm just starting to read Hold on to Your Kids. Heard it recommended here.

ANd, of course, I mean some, not all, by any means. Just saying it could be possible.


That's right, exactly.

A child's ER giggling was interpreted to mean 'no big deal', when in reality, she is proabably in great emotional pain & distress. Perhaps she cannot even identify and/or trust her own pain & her own emotions, so the adults assume she is willingly particpating and not caring...


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## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pfamilygal*
I had a 16 yr old patient with pubic lice a few weeks ago who didn't even know how many "holes" she had down there or what came out of each one. I had to draw her a freaking diagram. I asked if she was having vaginal discharge and she said "you mean 'cum'?"

Now how this ignorance in 16 yo can be explained?

Did her Mom ever tell her anything about her body?

Sheesh... I am not saying that everything (and everytime) that teens do comes from ignorance - but man, I am totally not surprised at the way this particular girl behaved. She had no clue what she was doing! Forget about talking morals, behaviors, responsibility - she was never told the BASICS about her own body!

Lets first educate our kids and then "watch them"...


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## mommystinch (May 18, 2004)

Please excuse me for jumping in, but I have to say that there are 12 year old girls who think oral sex and other sexual activities are no big deal. We just had a huge ordeal here a few weeks ago when my husband's 12 year old daughter was here visiting. She was reading a book called, "Four Blonds." I was curious, and picked it up to read the back cover. For those that haven't heard of it, it is written by the writters of, "Sex in the City." In just the first few pages I read, there was talk of giving blow jobs to strangers, having sex with a random man for a place to stay in the Hamptons, and a paragraph that talked about having sex after a blind date and describing that it started with uncomfortable kissing and then the man sat on the side of the bed stroking himself until he was hard enough to put on a condom. Now, I of course brought this to my husband's attention. Turns out, her mother let her buy the book after she had read it herself. In my husband's attempt to talk to his daughter, she said things such as, "It's no big deal," "Why do you have to treat me like a kid," "I'm growing up, dad," etc. Now, while I have no idea what her sexual activity has or has not included in real life, her attitude about this (in my opinion) pornographic book was that the stuff in it was no big deal. If a kid her age can think while reading it that it's no big deal, they are certainly capable of thinking it is no big deal for them to do the things as well.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommystinch*
Please excuse me for jumping in, but I have to say that there are 12 year old girls who think oral sex and other sexual activities are no big deal. We just had a huge ordeal here a few weeks ago when my husband's 12 year old daughter was here visiting. She was reading a book called, "Four Blonds." I was curious, and picked it up to read the back cover. For those that haven't heard of it, it is written by the writters of, "Sex in the City." In just the first few pages I read, there was talk of giving blow jobs to strangers, having sex with a random man for a place to stay in the Hamptons, and a paragraph that talked about having sex after a blind date and describing that it started with uncomfortable kissing and then the man sat on the side of the bed stroking himself until he was hard enough to put on a condom. Now, I of course brought this to my husband's attention. Turns out, her mother let her buy the book after she had read it herself. In my husband's attempt to talk to his daughter, she said things such as, "It's no big deal," "Why do you have to treat me like a kid," "I'm growing up, dad," etc. Now, while I have no idea what her sexual activity has or has not included in real life, her attitude about this (in my opinion) pornographic book was that the stuff in it was no big deal. If a kid her age can think while reading it that it's no big deal, they are certainly capable of thinking it is no big deal for them to do the things as well.


I've no doubt that there are some little girls *think* they think sex is no big deal. Or feel it is the only way to be loved. Since we do live in a soceity which the pop culture at large doesn't resepct developing sexuality, gives little guidance, leaves children to fend for themselves, teaches them nothing about their bodies, and feeds them MTV in it's current oreientation, it's not a great leap for these girls to *think* that's the way it should be.

I've no doubt many people, 12 yr old girls included, are desentizied to the point of no return by our neglect.

Girls are in *pain* from our lack of care and our parental & societal neglect.

it's also important to note that *most* 12 yr old girls are *not* doing this. This is a media event. The more media presents this as the norm and the more paretns ignore their children, the more children will fall into this emotional abyss. We also send our boys a terrible message when we say it is OK to treat girls this way. Most 12 yr old girls don't want multiple sex partners and they esp don't want them in one night.

As a nation we are ignoring the emotional needs of our children when we say "yeah, some girls and boys love putting themselves in sexual danger. That's how it is today. the girls don't think it's a big deal and the boys love it.

We're not headed to hell, we *are* in hell, if we truly accept that little girls want it to be this way. So we think 12 yr olds are really happy with saying 'Yeah, I did my whole class last night at a party. It was so cool and I can't wait to do it again". i think if kids had some people around giving a darn, they would find activities that are more respectful of themselves.

So sure, some little girls are having sex, but in all likehood they probably aren't enjoying these sexual orgies much.

That says something about *us*--not about children themseleves.


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## mommystinch (May 18, 2004)

I agree with you. I certainly don't think it is the majority of girls, nor do I think it is okay. I am disgusted that dh's ex wife has not taken more responsibility in communicating with her daughter. I just wanted to point out that there are young girls that think this stuff is okay.

I completely agree that with most of the kids getting involved in sexual activity at a young age, it has something to do with their parents. They are either not getting the love and attention they need and are searching elsewhere, or they are just not taught enough about their bodies, sex, and consequences.

My 2 year old already knows her different body parts by their correct name. She might get them confused sometime, but hey, she's two. She will be talked to more than she will probably ever care to about choices involving her body and how to make good choices and keep herself safe and healthy. Unfortunately,we can't do much about my husband's 12 year old. We only see her about twice a year since we can't afford more plane tickets than that, and she actually locked herself in the bathroom and wouldn't talk to us for an entire afternoon and night because we tried explaining why what she was reading was not okay.

I think so many people miss the boat because they think their kids are too young to talk to them about sex or they are scared that by talking about it, they will encourage it to happen. These dialouges need to start early on so that kids are prepared with whatever they encounter!


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## CookieMonsterMommy (Oct 15, 2002)

Okay, this thread has me annoyed for quite a few reasons....

#1 Boys can catch STDs easily, as well as pass them along even easier. Why should we not "watch our boys" as well? A boy can be a victim of peer pressure and parental neglect just as quickly as a girl. Talk about sexism.









#2 The giggling does NOT mean that she thought it was no big deal. Giggling is a common response to embarassment and stress. Also, girls often minimize their feelings, they've been raised to (ever hear of "Well, he hit me, but it was no big deal", or yeah, he yells and screams at me a lot, but he doesn't mean to" or "Well, I said no, but it's my fault, because I led him on"?? Any of tihs ring a bell) I've done it, and I know many others have as well.

#3 Mommystinch--I read those types of books when I was 12. it was the only place where I could get *any* info about sex at that age, aside from the "penis goes in vagina, man ejaculates" textbook crap...when I discovered the educational books at the library that had details and answered my questions, i read them in secret. Okay, you and dh did not like the book, but the childs custodial parent okayed it. Did either of you (dh or yourself) get her a good "here's the real deal, here are some well presented details" type of book to satiate her curiousity?

#4 "Little girls" get horny. Surprise! Gasp!







12, 13, 14....hormones are beginning to really surge, girls are discovering that when they read things as mentioned in #3, they get wet, their heart races, when they kiss a boy they get a different feeling, etc. Same with boys. (I hope this is not against the UA, it truly is related to parenting and normal adolescent development, and I've not been vulgar)

#5 Delaying sex will NOT help you avoid STDs and pregnancy, it will DELAY that. Just look at the increasing geriatric HIV cases. A 30 year old has the same chances of catching chlamydia as a 13 year old with similar immunologic factors. Quantity is what counts (and is obviously an issue with this girl).

kelly


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## green betty (Jun 13, 2004)

I read Fear of Flying when I was twelve (and also found it an invaluable source of information!) I've read Four Blondes. I would let a 12 year old read it.

I think that fiction is a great way for people of all ages to work through their reflections and reactions about contemporary issues. It's an intellectually active process, unlike watching TV. I would much rather my child read Four Blondes than watch Saturday morning cartoons!

OK, I just dated myself. I know that cartoons have been on all day, every day for a long time now...

ITA what CookieMonsterMommy said about boys!


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## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

ITA, CookieMonsterMommy!

This thread seems to have a lot of unintentional sexism running through it. Where's the mention of the boys' role in all this, eh?


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## fire_lady (Aug 24, 2005)

That was terrible. Thanks for the information.
Ignorance and misguidance are the main reason why teens do such things that result to early pregnancy or even HIV.

I just feel so sad about that young girl.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pfamilygal*
This poor girl may end up being infertile because of the damage to her young reproductive system. How sad and stupid. I just wanted to shake her mama and tell her to start watching her child!(

How do you know that she was not already watching her child?

Judgemental, aren't we?

Hello, Mother here of a former teenager who was extremely rebellious. She started her rebellious years when she was 11. She was out all night long and would refuse to go to school; she brought strange people in the house and stole $. I took her bedroom door off the hinges. I went to Toughlove, BILY, and parent education meetings. I reported her to the police. I denied her a trip to France which her class was taking. The police turned on me and told me I was crazy and that nothing was wrong with my daughter. CPS believed my daughter also.

I am the oldest of nine children and I watched as each of my six younger sisters acted out the rites of puberty. Nothing new here.

I was told to butt out of my daughter's business. I was told it was unreasonable to expect my daughter to tell me everywhere she went. I was told it was unreasonable for a 15 year old to be in by one o'clock in the morning on a school night/morning.

I found a man of majority age in my daughter's room at midnight when she was fifteen. I chased the guy down the street and called the police...the police told me to shut up, that I did not know what I was talking about, and they told me this in front of my sons, then age 13, 11, and 4. NIce example, huh, telling the mother she is crazy in front of her young sons whose DH/FAther was dying?!

What did CPS do? They told me my DD was exhibiting normal behavior. WTF? These were the people who were telling me I was crazy.

I did watch my daughter. I was told to shut up.

So I shut up.

Maybe you should be shaking someone else. The Juvenile Police Department for one.


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## beccaboomom (May 22, 2005)

Quote:

What did CPS do? They told me my DD was exhibiting normal behavior. WTF? These were the people who were telling me I was crazy.








So sorry you had to go through this. I hope things have improved with your dd. I do not know why our society considers this normal behaviour, it is not. Why are we ,as a society, trying to sexualize children at such a young age. I'm talking about the entertainment industry, the clothing industry, and those who act like children aren't capable of controlling their sexual urges.

I totally agree with keeping close tabs on your kids, but the reality is that there is no way you can do that 24/7. I'm annoyingly careful with my 13 yo dd. I have a brother and sister who where molested by people we know. I've told my dd about these things and why I"m so careful with her so that she understands that I"m not not totally nuts.


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## caitlinsmom (Jun 10, 2004)

First off from what my 15 yo bros say these bracelet things are really happening. They live in a small town and it seems to be the normal thing to talk about, but I am pretty sure that it is mostly talk and very little action.

Second, I can relate with the little girl. I was active with everything but actual intercourse for years. I didnt see it as a "big deal" when I talked about it with everyone. (Everyone being my friends who were doing the exact smae things I was.) I laughed and giggled about it, my friends and I made jokes about it, we had special codes to talk about it. It wasnt a big deal. I blew my parents off if they ever asked about it (they very very rarely did). It wasnt about ignorance with me either, my parent were more graphic and open minded than I could handle (ie mom told me the best ways and places to have sex). All that said it was a HUGE deal. Inside I was so unhappy with myself and family, I hated everything about my life. When I was involved with a guy I was completely numb, I never felt a single thing. My body had reactions that were completly against my control and I didnt enjoy any of it. I hate every second and everything I was doing. If anyone would have told me I could get an STD I would have been horrified but it wouldnt have stopped me. Its that invincible kid thing, it can happen to anyone but you.

We need to teach our children to be strong and respectful. We need to teach them that there are consequences for their actions. We need to teach and SHOW them that emotions and feelings are okay.

I think as a society we are so embaressed with emotion that we would rather have a child turn it inside and become destructive. We would rather keep them at arms length so they dont become dependent and then wonder what we did wrong when they can communicate with us.

I think "watching our girls" needs to start at birth by teaching/showing them it is possible to be a strong, feeling, emotional, lovable and sexual person without being destructive.


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## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caitlinsmom*
I think "watching our girls" needs to start at birth by teaching/showing them it is possible to be a strong, feeling, emotional, lovable and sexual person without being destructive.

Well said


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kama'aina mama*
I would assume that the bracelets in question are those rubber bracelets a la the Lance Armstrong one? Am I wrong? If so they have really only been around a bit over a year, I think.

No, the ones that they use for the sex meanings are the old style jelly bracelets. The boy is the break it off of the girl's wrist to get the favor he wants.

-Heather
who's 19yo sister has gone to one of these parties


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## julie128 (Jan 9, 2003)

Why is this always on the girl? Who do you think girls have sex with? Houseplants? Why does no one teach their sons to have a little respect for girls?

A little O.T. I remember seeing a film in sex ed in high school on date rape. The film showed a scenario in which a boy lured a girl into a situation where he could rape her. After the film, the teacher asked the class, "What mistakes did the girl make?" Years later, I wondered why he hadn't asked, "What mistake did the boy make?"

I wonder if boys feel equally pressured into having sex. Maybe they do.

This is not about watching our daughters. This is about watching our children. Not spying, just keeping tabs, making sure that parties are supervised, that we know their friends and their friends' parents. Teaching them right from wrong, so that they know what decision to make when in the situation. And, if they decide "wrong" to tell them we love them anyway.


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## Dov (Nov 21, 2001)

We "plan" to watch our son and our daughter equally and work through our own issues without plastering those issues onto them in the process. I hope our plan works out...

Sounds to me like the bracelet party thing is 9 parts media (all corporate media is entertainment-i.e. titillation, teaser-driven) hyperbole and 1 part anecdotal reality. Frankly I was drawn in by the O.P. but the more I read the thread the less I could get worked up about it. I remember doing lots of really dumb-ass things when I was in adolescence. My parents spied and pried and shamed and accused my behavior and lifestyle constantly. What did I get for all their "watching me"? A decade in therapy and the expense that came with it.

What I learned was that as much as Puritanical America wants children (pre-teen and teen) to be sexless, the truth is they're just human first and icons not at all. I would rather have had my parents spend more time teaching me about self-control and wisdom, how relationships really work and don't work, all the while being flooded with hormones--- you can teach someone to surf on land but until they get into the surf itself they'll never actually learn to surf well at all.

ITA with the posters asking about the boys. Being an older boy myself, and one who was adored by every date's mom I ever met, leaving them out of the accountability mix is just plain dumb. Having said that, giving boys the "respect" drill is meaningless. We have to teach boys and girls alike how relationships work and don't work, and then we have to have the guts to give them the space and developmentally appropriate supervision to mess up without binding them to mandatory minimum sentences (like compulsory pregnancy, etc.) and other irreversible consequences. Personally I am more concerned with learning what I'll need as a Dad to make that happen in a good way in a culture with no healthy or sufficient models for how that would look. What scares me is that the looney Puritan cult will inflict zero tolerance and other hyperbolic abuse on my kids so much that they'll just give up and give in... do we ever consider what our parental pressure does to our kids? We always blame it on peer pressure but my own experience tingles like spidey-senses... the microscope of my own parents combined with the lack of real tools I could use, it was a guarantee of failure.

In the meantime, supervise the party activities sure, but not from a panicked hyper-Puritanical microscoping urge brought on by titillation-obsessed corporate media hyperbole. Can we supervise from a place of love and awareness of our kids' developmental needs instead?


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## caitlinsmom (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *julie128*

I wonder if boys feel equally pressured into having sex. Maybe they do.

Definatly! My 15 yo bros feel really pressured. One already had sex and the other struggles with if he should or shouldnt everyday. All their friends have so they want to fit in.







I think that is crappy.

ITA about the boy thing. I think society has made so many forget about boys since they are supposed to be "strong and manly" while girls are to be weak and submissive, which is why I think we focus on girls more in these topics. We cant expect children to develop the skills to have healthy relationships if we continue to pin the responsiblity solely on one sex.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *julie128*
Why is this always on the girl? Who do you think girls have sex with? Houseplants? Why does no one teach their sons to have a little respect for girls?

A little O.T. I remember seeing a film in sex ed in high school on date rape. The film showed a scenario in which a boy lured a girl into a situation where he could rape her. After the film, the teacher asked the class, "What mistakes did the girl make?" Years later, I wondered why he hadn't asked, "What mistake did the boy make?"

I wonder if boys feel equally pressured into having sex. Maybe they do.

This is not about watching our daughters. This is about watching our children. Not spying, just keeping tabs, making sure that parties are supervised, that we know their friends and their friends' parents. Teaching them right from wrong, so that they know what decision to make when in the situation. And, if they decide "wrong" to tell them we love them anyway.


I think it is not only teaching boys to have respect for girls. I think the boys need to be taught respect for themselves.

I agree with who ever said we are putting this in stereo type scenarios boys=strong girls=weak.

My nephew at 12 use to get condoms from girls. No pressure to have sex there (sarcasm). Also this bracelet thing it is not just something boy are doing to girls. It is a game that both parties are making victims of each other. Both parties have to follow the rules to this game.

Our attitudes are also say women get nothing out of sex, just males. I think things holds our (female) sexual enjoyments views skewed. Encouraging the ideas that sex is just something that happens to woman instead of something you can initiate, enjoy, and desire. Societals current views promote the mentality that it is OK for men to be horn dogs but not women. If a guy wants sex all the time it is normal but not for women, and IMO that is wrong.


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## Fishygirlsmom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
'giggling like it was no big deal"? Giggling from embarassment, maybe.

Now we are supposed to beleive this girl is a slut on top of it all? There is so much more going on for teens than this.

Most people who are in social services or human services know, or should know, that inappropriate reactions/emotions when faced with someone tramatic is a real red flag. It means there is more here than meets the eye.

I have also heard of this and believe itto be an urban legend. Has anyone personally known a teen who goes to these parties and hasn't heard about it from a third or fourthhand source?


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## Fishygirlsmom (Aug 26, 2005)

I think all who are involved with boys should read "Raising Cain". Then you would see just how vulnerable boys really are.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Boys get a raw raw deal in our cutlure.

The pressures on boys are often different, but no less dramatic.


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## pfamilygal (Feb 28, 2005)

The reason I said that we should watch our girls is because girls seem to bear more of the physical consequences of sexual activities. Boys don't contract STD's as easily and do not get pregnant. Boys do not have near the risk of developing permanent life-changing infertility.

Yes, we will be watching our son too. And teaching him about how real men act - with self-control. Yes, hormones are real, but we are not animals who must obey them without thinking.


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## KnitterMama (Mar 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fishygirlsmom*
Most people who are in social services or human services know, or should know, that inappropriate reactions/emotions when faced with someone tramatic is a real red flag. It means there is more here than meets the eye.

That's just what I was thinking ... I learned that on Day 3 of nursing school.

Not only that, but the care providers really should be digging deeper to find-out what exactly is going on here, regardless of if she had giggled or not. I hope the OP has a good poker face, otherwise the girl's suspicions about how much she can trust adults and talk about sex were probably confirmed (like if she felt she was being judged).


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

What would you define as an inappropriate response?

Is there a list of appropriate responses somewhere?

I have heard of this when suspects are arrested, and I do not know what exactly they mean. I have up to this time been cooperative with law enforcement, but not anymore.

I have been a door mat too many times.


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## CaraboosMama (Mar 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pfamilygal*
The reason I said that we should watch our girls is because girls seem to bear more of the physical consequences of sexual activities. Boys don't contract STD's as easily and do not get pregnant. Boys do not have near the risk of developing permanent life-changing infertility.



Actually - that is totally false. Not only are boys equally (if not more at risk)for STD's including HIV, but certain STD's (gonorrhea and chlymidia (sp?) spring to mind) will cause sterility in men if not treated properly. And , generally speaking, the syptoms of many STD's are less symptomatic in men, and men are less likely to seek treatement due to social stigma and believing myths like "boys are less likely to get STD"s!" And of course, AIDS will permanently change a man's life - by ending it.

just an aside....No one want to see children and teens of either sex get STD's or face the adult decsions surrounding an unplanned pregnancy. Education - teaching the facts & teaching self-respect - is necessary. Getting worked up everytime you see a kid wearing a jelly bracelet isn't.


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## CookieMonsterMommy (Oct 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pfamilygal*
Yes, we will be watching our son too. And teaching him about how real men act - with self-control. Yes, hormones are real, but we are not animals who must obey them without thinking.

1st of all, we ARE animals. And no one said we must obey them without thinking. I know (and hope you do too) that many teenagers and adults actually like (and choose) to follow their hormones on this, because it feels good to do so. That doesn't make them more or less irresponsible than those who choose not to act on these impulses.

Real men act with self control?!? So having sex means you lack self control? Or is it just having sex out side of marriage? The issue with "sex parties" is respect--for ones self and for others, not self control. I think I'm pretty much done with this thread.....







:

Caraboo, I agree totally with your 2nd paragraph, but the 1st one is incorrect--well, the part about males contracting STDs. They are generally less likely to catch STDs like HIV and gonorrhea/chlamydia, mostly due to the nature of those diseases and the was sex works. Those diseases are most easily transmitted from one mucous membrane to another. A male's exposed mucous membrane is just the meatus (pee hole, if you will), whereas a females entire genital area is composed of mucous membranes. Also if a man ejaculates into the female, that bacteria or virus is basically sitting inside her vagina, cervix and uterus (and peritoneal cavity possibly), which are all basically mucous membranes. Sucks, but thems the breaks I guess.









Of course that does NOT mean that men can't get them, nor should men/boys be given that impression.

Kelly


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## CaraboosMama (Mar 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CookieMonsterMommy*
Caraboo, I agree totally with your 2nd paragraph, but the 1st one is incorrect--well, the part about males contracting STDs. They are generally less likely to catch STDs like HIV and gonorrhea/chlamydia, mostly due to the nature of those diseases and the was sex works. Those diseases are most easily transmitted from one mucous membrane to another. A male's exposed mucous membrane is just the meatus (pee hole, if you will), whereas a females entire genital area is composed of mucous membranes. Also if a man ejaculates into the female, that bacteria or virus is basically sitting inside her vagina, cervix and uterus (and peritoneal cavity possibly), which are all basically mucous membranes. Sucks, but thems the breaks I guess.









Of course that does NOT mean that men can't get them, nor should men/boys be given that impression.

Kelly

Kelly - I get your point about the biological diff. in the spread of STD's. I was concerned by the attitude of the OP which seemed to be that "boys don't face as many risks when having sex."








I guess my main point is that too many people downplay or don't discuss that boys/men CAN and DO get STDs and they have serious consequences if untreated (i.e. epidydimitis (sp?) that can lead to types of arthritis, infertility issues, etc.)


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Very true. I've got a male friend who's now infertile because of untreated...chlamydia, I think it was. He was an absolute mess when he found out. He said he didn't know if he'd have ever had kids, anyway - but that's not how he wanted the decision to be made.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

Is anyone else uncomfortable with the details provided by the OP. Aren't there privacy rules that you shouldn't talk about patients, even if you don't give names? I'd hate to find my Physician or nurse or doula discussing my birth on some board somewhere. I know you're trying to help and share information, but I feel little weird hearing about cases of 12 and 16 yo girls through the Internet.


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## Curious Me (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ellien C*
Is anyone else uncomfortable with the details provided by the OP. Aren't there privacy rules that you shouldn't talk about patients, even if you don't give names? I'd hate to find my Physician or nurse or doula discussing my birth on some board somewhere. I know you're trying to help and share information, but I feel little weird hearing about cases of 12 and 16 yo girls through the Internet.

I absolutely am not uncomfortable with the details and the lack thereof. She provided nothing which would identify the real 12 year-old girl among millions of other 12 year-old girls.

At least some of ALL of our physicians, dentists, doulas, chiropractors, massage therapists, podiatrists, nurses, cosmetologists, etc., etc. UNDOUBTEDLY discuss their cases, clients and patients on a DAILY basis with others -- on the Internet, in e-mail, over the phone, on message/discussion boards and in person. As long as they are not giving information to reveal the person's identity, and therefore, breaching their privacy, they are exhibiting nothing but ordinary human behavior.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

The ob-gyn.net forums can be read by anybody, and they discuss specific cases there all the time. I think privacy rules must be limited to information that can actually identify the client/patient.


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## CookieMonsterMommy (Oct 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
I think privacy rules must be limited to information that can actually identify the client/patient.


Yep. Now if she had said "I was at a clinic in Topeka, the one on Main St, and an overweight 12 year old brunette from Cleaver High came in with







" then that would present a ethical/legal issue.

Well, actually, this may have been unethical....you're supposed to use discression, really only discuss the case with other professionals or for the "greater good" of society (again, with no identifying factors). But I guess it _could_ be said that the OP was trying to help...although I'm not sure that goal was met.









I know in my childbirth classes, I'll ask my clients "Is it okay if I mention this situation in future classes?" and explain that I won't give out their name or any identifying information.

Kelly


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Thanks for your posts CMM.


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## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

I'm glad this was brought up and grateful my 11yo ds wants to be homeschooled through high school. I think about the boys side of it because I have a son. I know he could easily be pressured into doing something he wasn't totally ready for, so I worry for him. STDs are a risk and a pregnancy (regardless of the fact that he wouldn't actually carry the baby) is definitely as much a consequence for the boy as for the girl, since no son of mine will ever shirk his parental duties unless he wants to be disowned (ds's dad is a deadbeat). I will definitely be worrying about my girls later.

I just can't imagine letting my middle schooler go anywhere where I wasn't totally sure of the parental supervision. My ds doesn't go anywhere without me, dh, a grandparent or his best friend's parents. But then I live on a street where 4yos ride big wheels down the middle of the street without a parent in sight. Not exactly protecting the gift.


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## mandib50 (Oct 26, 2004)

where my sister lives the bracelet story is true. her dd came home last year and told her exactly what was going on with the bracelets (my niece didn't have any - phew). there was also an oprah show that dealt with the bracelets in schools and it seemed to be true, they interviewed students, parents and principals about the issue. of course, the show also dealt with blow-jobs in the bathrooms too.
i think what i feel the most sad about young kids having sex is that many of them are using sex to try and find the love and belonging that they don't get at home







of course, not all, but i'd bet the majority. just my own idea.

mandi


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## CookieMonsterMommy (Oct 15, 2002)

You know, in a quick defense of this girl's "obviously neglegant" mother...

I lied to my parents about my whereabouts plenty of times, and let me tell you--unless you are THERE, you don't know what's going on. Example? I once slept over my boyfriends house while his parents were on vacation, and in order to do so I told my parents I was sleeping at my friend (from vo-tech) Dayana's house. All my parents had to do was act responsibly and I would have been caught, right? Nope.

Dayanas parents had no problem telling my dad that, yes, I was indeed sleeping over, and yes, they'd be home the whole time, and no, there would not be anyone else.

Another friends mother, whom my father had known for about 6 years (they went to each others BBQs, had coffee together, played cards all the time, etc) agreed that my parents rules were too strict and had no issues lying for me plenty of times.

I've posed as my sister's mother and lied to her friend's parents when there were DV issues involved.

Just because you speak with parents, or meet them, or even know them well, doesn't mean you can controll a determined teenager. Especially if you do not respect her from the get-go, or worse--if she does not respect herself.

the_lissa, Thanks









Kelly

PS-laralou, even if your son were 100% involved, his girlfriend would most likely still shoulder more than he. She has the health risks associated with preg/birth, she may have to miss school and fail classes due to the pregnancy, she is the one who will carry the brunt of the "teenage parent" stigma, and more than likely, the child will live with her, leaving more childcare responsibilites on her. (I'm NOT saying that teen dads can't be amazing. My ds's dad was an awsome 18 y/o dad! But I still had more responisbility than him). To say that pregnancy and parenthood

Quote:

is definitely as much a consequence for the boy as for the girl
is idealistic at best, naive at worst. I'm not attacking you at all, I'm sure your son would take great care of his child. But there are differences.


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## green betty (Jun 13, 2004)

Dov and CMM, you just rock.

I offer this perspective on the instincts topic:
We are whole, indivisible beings from the beginning of life to the end.
Logic and emotion are a piece of each other. They complement one another, if you allow them.
Instinct cannot "control" you, Instinct _is_ you.
Understanding and cherishing our animal selves allows us to really think about our feelings and make choices that are wise and satisfying. I say, teach your child to bring his/her whole self to sexual experience! Honor them and their ability to choose what that means for them, and they will do likewise.


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