# Air travel with Britax Marathon??



## Moochie Mamma (Jan 23, 2006)

(x-posted to Toddlers)

We are currently visiting Australia- a 14 hour flight from home. On the way here we had DD (19 mo and 25lb) in her Marathon on the plane. It was miserable. She was so close to the seat in front of her that her feet got squashed, she had no room to move around, etc. (It was good when she slept though.) All other babies on the plane were either in their own seat (toddlers and up) or in parents' laps.

Here's my question: we're considering checking the seat through with luggage (it's also a beast and super heavy to carry through the airport) and have her just sit in the seat with the plane seatbelt so she has wiggle room or so she can lay sideways onto my lap. What do you think of the safety of this? Apparently in Australia kids are almost never in carseats on planes and when are toddlers just sit on the regular seat.

If I could I would buy a Sunshine fold-up seat or similar but we're in a small town and will only be in a city when driving through to the airport.


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

You asked the safety question, so I will give you the answer. While folks will most probably tell you they don't use car seats on planes, the bottom line is in an emergency (notice I don't say crash) your child will be much safer in a car seat, than on your lap or with the regular seat belt. There are all sorts of emergencies on planes, the most common being turbulence and an emergency landing (fast landing, bumpy, with lots of braking or other problems). They are not uncommon, turbulence can happen at any time and people get hurt, seriously at times. I will not fly without having my child in a car seat, I have flown in severe turbulence and it is no picnic. I do not want to have to worry about my child flying about the cabin in that situation. In an emergency landing, the flight attendant would most likely tell a parent of a lap baby (wtihout their own seat, obviously not your situation) they need to place them on the floor. While I would object to that, if the child doesn't have a seat, or a car seat in that seat, it is the safest place. I would never want to do that, so we bring a car seat.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Honest opinion... during a 14 hour flight, there is just as much chance that she'll be out of her car seat as in it when unexpected turbulence hits, so I completely do not buy into the argument that a car seat is safer in turbulence... yeah it is if you happen to have your child in the car seat. It's a crap shoot on that one. They are just as likely to get hit by a flying object during turbulence... in their car seat or not. But with getting up to go to the bathroom or doing diaper changes or just stretching your legs... she's equally as likely to be standing up or unrestrained when turbulence hits... if it does. I mean on these long trips, they cruise at such a high altitude, there is rarely much turbulence up there and when known turbulence occurs (take off and landing), everyone has to be restrained, anyway.

Unless they've been there, most people cannot fathom flying for 14 hours with a small child and it's easy to make blanket statements. I mean, it is usually 14 hours of hell trying to occupy your child in such a small space. I cannot imagine trying to keep our dd occupied if she wasn't able to have the tray table down and room to see the TV screen. We have flown transatlanticly (max flight time 15 hours) about 12 times since dd was born (she's 5). Going is always easier because dd sleeps (red-eye). But flying back is always so much more difficult because they are awake most of the trip (not sure which direction you're flying, but if it's to the US, I guess your outbound trip was the daytime trip?) When dd was a baby, we sat at the bulkhead and used the extension belt for take-off and landing and she slept in a bassinet that was attached to the bulkhead. Since she was about 2, we let her sit in the the seat with a regular belt. I feel very confident that the belt would keep her well restrained in the case of any problems that are survivable. Just my opinion.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Carseats are safer. Period.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Have you considered getting a smaller car seat for the trip?

I've flown with two in marathons, and it was a pain in the ass. In addition, the seats both got STUCK, and it took us 45 minutes to deplane (I thought the attendants were going to crawl up our rears, not that I blame them, but I could have done without their snapping while trying to herd three little kids) even after everyone was off, because we couldn't get the buckle of the airplane seatbelt to unlatch, as during the long flight it had settled to a very odd almost unreachable spot.

With a huge carseat, you'll have that issue of space. Though if you don't have a carseat, it can be hard for kids to get comfortable, as well. My advice would be to look for a smaller seat if you can afford it. My kids sleep a lot better in their seats than they do flying without. Now that we have to have them just in the regular seat with seatbelt (we only take boosters now, and can't use them on the plane) I miss having the option of the less bulky carseat.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Tigerchild - next time twist the belt one time so the buckle is turned around. This will allow to you easily unlatch the belt.

Moochie Mama - I'd absolutely take the seat on the plane. Couple of reasons. . .

1) Checked items get thrown around. I've know of more than a few cases where the carseat was destroyed because it was handled roughly (cracked shell, broken base, etc). Airline will not replace the seat for you, so you'll just have to buy a new one. I don't trust them to take care of something that needs taken care of.

2) 14 hrs is a long flight and she'll probably be more comfortable in the carseat to sleep. Even if she's out of the seat most of the time and in your lap and stretching her legs, when she gets fussy and cranky you'll probably be happy there's a place that she can sleep peacefully without you having to hold her.

3) Most airlines mandate that children under the age of 4 _must_ be in carseats. They won't allow you to put the child just in the seat, even if you wanted to.

4) It's just plain safer. I myself have been injured in a plane during normal turbulence and would never want to put my child in that same position.

I imagine her feet were squished because the seat in front of her was reclined? If that's the case, there are some seats on the plane that do not recline at all -- ask for the row behind these seats so she won't be squished this time.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazydiamond* 
Most airlines mandate that children under the age of 4 _must_ be in carseats. They won't allow you to put the child just in the seat, even if you wanted to.

No offense, but have you ever flown outside of the US on a non-US carrier? Most airlines don't ALLOW carseats. I ran into problems time and time again when dd was smaller and I wanted to put her in a carseat. All of the non-US carriers we flew on tried to make us check in the carseat.


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## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazydiamond* 

3) Most airlines mandate that children under the age of 4 _must_ be in carseats. They won't allow you to put the child just in the seat, even if you wanted to.


Really, not on any flight I've ever been on. I'm always the odd one out with a carseat. Once they are 2 I don't believe they need a carseat to sit in their own seat.


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## Moochie Mamma (Jan 23, 2006)

We're flying home to the US from Australia so the trip will be mostly during the day (night at home but our body clocks will still think it's day since we fly at 11am here) so she will be awake and wanting to play for most of the trip. On the flight here she slept for the first 1/2 of the flight since we left LA at midnight. It was great to have the seat for while she slept but the flight attendant wouldn't let me move it once she woke up, even though there were empty seats on the plane (none near us unfortunately). We fly Qantas which gave me a huge hassle when I called to reconfirm and mentioned that we had a baby in a carseat- they made me give them all the serial numbers so they could approve the seat, which took 24 hours. I would just go ahead and buy a smaller, lighter seat for the return trip (and check in the Marathon) and for use on future trips but we're staying in a small town that doesn't have anywhere to buy carseats, besides if I bought one here I'm not sure if it would be FAA approved to fly on planes in the US- which is where we live and travel frequently.

So I'm not sure what I'm going to do about the seat for now but what I _am_ going to do is use the technique in "The Secret" and ask the universe to upgrade us to Business class and believe it will happen so it will happen and not having enough space won't be an issue


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
No offense, but have you ever flown outside of the US on a non-US carrier? Most airlines don't ALLOW carseats. I ran into problems time and time again when dd was smaller and I wanted to put her in a carseat. All of the non-US carriers we flew on tried to make us check in the carseat.

I've flown on Domestic flights where this was the policy -- lap babies until age 2 and from age 2-4 where a separate seat must be purchased, there had to be a carseat.. I wasn't sure which airline the OP was flying on anyway, since it could be a US carrier or not. Did I miss where she said it was a non-US airline in her first post? I see now that she's clarified that in her last post.

So call 'em up and ask beforehand. Seems like a simple solution to me. It would suck to arrive and do the "wrong" thing, whatever that wrong thing may be.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

She said she's flying Quantas.

I've flown with them. It's the decision of the flight attendants. They actually have the last word on whether or not you are allowed to have a car seat. I know... stinks... but they are not required to follow FAA regulations.

I still think that the seatbelt is enough and on these long flights, I KNOW... KNOW ALL TOO WELL... that it's a PITA to have a car seat that prohibits you from using the tray table, the seat, or the video screen. It's a long, long flight and by the time it's over, you feel like you're about to scream.


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## MCsMom (Jan 15, 2006)

I just have to say that while everyone has good points, in my BTDT personal opinion, I 110% agree with Velochic. And once you leave the US, the 'rules' go out the window. I would do all in my power to not have a carseat on transatlantic/pacific flights. Domestic is another ball park, but this thread is about international.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazydiamond* 
I've flown on Domestic flights where this was the policy -- lap babies until age 2 and from age 2-4 where a separate seat must be purchased, there had to be a carseat.. I wasn't sure which airline the OP was flying on anyway, since it could be a US carrier or not. Did I miss where she said it was a non-US airline in her first post? I see now that she's clarified that in her last post.

No US airline requires carseats.

-Angela


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## polyhymnia (Jan 6, 2007)

.


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## Mamato3wild ponnie (Jan 6, 2007)

Flying International:

We flew to Mexico and had 2 connecting flights with in the country of MX, so i feel that i can give my opinion...if your child is still bf..i would not have the car seat in the plane at all. I understand that you will be on a very long flight..but children sleep better when in mom/dad arms....as far as safety...more people are injured in cars than on airplanes...so i wouldn't even be worried about safety while in flight..i would rather have my child in my lap then stuck inside a huge car seat...we have the Britx marathon too...and that thing is heavy duty. Plus you will be flying over the ocean..i would rather hold my child in my lap than take the chance of not being able to get her out of the seat real fast if you had too. My toddler nursed and nursed while in flight...i took lots of things for him to do...small bottles of bubbles...a movie/dvd player...books...toys...lots of little snacks...he looked out the window alot..we took several bathroom trips....I would check the britax..but find a box for it and check the whole box...that way it doesn't get tore up in transit....just my 2cents though...


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## scbegonias (Aug 15, 2003)

We've always used our Britax Wizard on the plane. Actually, last time we flew (a couple weeks ago), the flight attendant thanked us profusely for putting DD (34 months) in a car seat. He said that the flight attendants union has been lobbying for forever to make it mandetory...but they're up against the airlines.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
I've flown with two in marathons, and it was a pain in the ass. In addition, the seats both got STUCK, and it took us 45 minutes to deplane (I thought the attendants were going to crawl up our rears, not that I blame them, but I could have done without their snapping while trying to herd three little kids) even after everyone was off, because we couldn't get the buckle of the airplane seatbelt to unlatch, as during the long flight it had settled to a very odd almost unreachable spot.

A few tricks of the trade

(in addition to crazydiamond's - next time twist the belt one time so the buckle is turned around. This will allow to you easily unlatch the belt.)

- crazydiamond's trick also allows you to feed the belt to loosen it when trying to unbuckle

- I also like to recline the seat (gives you more slack)

- and my absolute favorite...after you've made sure the buckle is turned around and you've got a little slack...most airplane seatbelts unhook at the seat base...the entire thing just comes out...and, voila, your seat is free!


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamato3wild ponnie* 
but children sleep better when in mom/dad arms....as far as safety...more people are injured in cars than on airplanes...so i wouldn't even be worried about safety while in flight..i would rather have my child in my lap then stuck inside a huge car seat...we have the Britx marathon too...and that thing is heavy duty. ..

nice blanket statement there. Not all children sleep better in their parent's arms, and not all parents are comfortable with their children lying on them while flying in an airplane. What if I have to use the restroom? My son slept very well in his car seat, at any age, while flying. He is used to falling asleep in his car seat. As for cars and flying, more people are injured in car accidents BUT children are injured and killed on airplanes as well, the odds are low, but I would NEVER want to be the parent who didn't put them in a car seat while flying and have something happen. It DOES happen, and I don't view a child as "stuck" in a car seat, they are buckled in and safe, and if I need to take them out I can, and if there is turbulence, I can be assured that they won't go flying around the cabin. You know they strap down the coffee pot in flight, why would I want any less for my child? Just because they are in a car seat doesn't mean they can't get out of it from time to time. I fly with my britax marathon, and don't view it as a burden, I figure I am doing the best for my son. Besides, do you have ANY idea how badly they treat car seats that are put in the hold? They throw them!

And yes, the flight attendants WANT children in car seats during flights, because THEY KNOW it's safer, if you do a web search you can find their website, one of their speakers was a flight attendant in that famous crash in Iowa (I believe it was Iowa) that killed one child not in a car seat, and another who was did survive.

I never want to be the parent who wonders "what if...." when it comes to safety. It's not all the difficult to put them in a car seat, and it CAN make a difference when it counts.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jwebbal* 
And yes, the flight attendants WANT children in car seats during flights, because THEY KNOW it's safer

I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but this is an international flight and that is simply not true. The flight attendants do NOT care about kids being in car seats. Mostly the flight attendants just care that you do whatever it takes to keep the baby from crying, whether in the US or OUS. And btw, most of the rest of the world doesn't even put their kids in car seats in the CAR, let alone on a plane! I have flown Lufthansa, Swiss Air, Turkish Air, Quantas, Air Canada, British Airways, and Air France with my dd and with all but Air Canada, either I personally, or I was personally witness to flight attendants arguing that it is their policy that the baby is on the lap (with an extension belt) for take off and landing. It is a REQUIREMENT by several non-US carriers that the baby NOT be in the car seat for take off and landing. I had this happen to me SEVERAL times!!

I think more international airlines are getting exposed to parents wanting car seats on planes, but seriously, they still just give you this "are you a crazy American?" look most of the time, still.


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## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but this is an international flight and that is simply not true. The flight attendants do NOT care about kids being in car seats. Mostly the flight attendants just care that you do whatever it takes to keep the baby from crying, whether in the US or OUS. And btw, most of the rest of the world doesn't even put their kids in car seats in the CAR, let alone on a plane! I have flown Lufthansa, Swiss Air, Turkish Air, Quantas, Air Canada, British Airways, and Air France with my dd and with all but Air Canada, either I personally, or I was personally witness to flight attendants arguing that it is their policy that the baby is on the lap (with an extension belt) for take off and landing. *It is a REQUIREMENT by several non-US carriers that the baby NOT be in the car seat for take off and landing. I had this happen to me SEVERAL times!!*I think more international airlines are getting exposed to parents wanting car seats on planes, but seriously, they still just give you this "are you a crazy American?" look most of the time, still.


I can second this - I have never seen a child in a carseat on a plane (apart from children under 1) but even then they are more likely to be in a sky cot, especially long haul. We fly pretty frequently too.

To the OP, if it was me, I would check the seat. I think the lap belt is pretty safe for a toddler.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

OK- travel with carseat questions 101: How do you lug them around the airport?

We didn't use one when we flew with ds1 as a toddler.


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## SiValleySteph (Feb 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
OK- travel with carseat questions 101: How do you lug them around the airport?

We have a GoGoKidz that attaches to the carseat and then you just wheel it around. Let me see if I can find a link...

GoGoKidz Travelmate

DS likes to pull his own.

**

I've been reading this thread with interest since we have a 13 hour flight coming up shortly. We're planning on using the carseat. It's a long flight, though...







: The carseat worked well on our most recent flight - 5 hours. DS slept the majority of the time.


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

I use bungee cords and strap it to my stroller. I have had my infant in a sling, then when he was a toddler in the actual seat.


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## Moochie Mamma (Jan 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
OK- travel with carseat questions 101: How do you lug them around the airport?

We didn't use one when we flew with ds1 as a toddler.

I've done this quite alot with both kids and I put DD (DS when he was little before DD was born) in a sling or Ergo, use a backpack for a diaper bag/carry-on, and bring a stroller to put the carseat on. Usually after I gate check the stroller someone will see me struggling with baby and carseat and help me get it onto the plane (never a flight attendant though- they just stand there and watch me struggle- it's always a fellow flyer who helps me).


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## Moochie Mamma (Jan 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SiValleySteph* 

I've been reading this thread with interest since we have a 13 hour flight coming up shortly. We're planning on using the carseat. It's a long flight, though...







: The carseat worked well on our most recent flight - 5 hours. DS slept the majority of the time.

This is why I started this thread- cause she slept for about 6 hours then was going nuts for the other 8 because the seat was so big she couldn't move around.


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Quote:

This is why I started this thread- cause she slept for about 6 hours then was going nuts for the other 8 because the seat was so big she couldn't move around.
Yeah, well it could have been the opposite as well. She could have been awake for more hours because she was uncomfortable, and then drove you crazy moving around and being cranky. Besides, it's not like kids can move around much on planes anway!


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## SiValleySteph (Feb 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Moochie Mamma* 
This is why I started this thread- cause she slept for about 6 hours then was going nuts for the other 8 because the seat was so big she couldn't move around.

When's your flight back? I might have time to learn more from your experience!









We've flown without the carseat before and it was fine. I actually like having the carseat, though, usually, because DS will sleep in it very well and doesn't mind sitting in it. But - our longest flight with the carseat was 5 hours (4 of those with carseat, all went fine).

If the carseat was a big PITA, I would just check it. We've checked ours before (including on the same 13 hour flight when DS was a baby).

Do you think it would fit on the floor between the seats? So like if your DC got tired of sitting in it, you could unbuckle it and wedge it down their so your DC has room to spread out? That's what I'm thinking about. I still think we'll bring ours on board since DC sleeps well in it. Hmmm... dilemmas!


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## Moochie Mamma (Jan 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SiValleySteph* 
When's your flight back? I might have time to learn more from your experience!









We've flown without the carseat before and it was fine. I actually like having the carseat, though, usually, because DS will sleep in it very well and doesn't mind sitting in it. But - our longest flight with the carseat was 5 hours (4 of those with carseat, all went fine).

If the carseat was a big PITA, I would just check it. We've checked ours before (including on the same 13 hour flight when DS was a baby).

Do you think it would fit on the floor between the seats? So like if your DC got tired of sitting in it, you could unbuckle it and wedge it down their so your DC has room to spread out? That's what I'm thinking about. I still think we'll bring ours on board since DC sleeps well in it. Hmmm... dilemmas!


Our flight is this Saturday- I'll post again after it to let you know what we did and how it went. There definitely wasn't room on the floor to put the seat- the plane was so cramped that at one point I tried to find my shoe on the floor and had to actually lay down in the aisle and reach my arm down where my feet were to reach it cause there was no space to even reach down to get it since the seat in front of me was so close. You'd think the airlines would give you a little more leg room, especially on the long international flights (then again I'm 5'11'' so I'd need alot more leg room!).


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## mommasuz (Jun 19, 2003)

I agree that car seats are safer. I also agree that they are a big PITA. If it were me on a 14 hour flight I wouldn't bring in onboard, especially if it made the flight there harder than it needed to be. Someone mentioned not being able to move about on a plane, but if there isn't a car seat they can stand in their seat, move around, sit on the floor in front of their chair, etc, which is what my kids did last summer. Good luck with your decision. You are WAY braver than I am, I would never dare attempt a 14 hour flight with a young child. I just turned down Hawaii because it was 8 hours!


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## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
OK- travel with carseat questions 101: How do you lug them around the airport?

We didn't use one when we flew with ds1 as a toddler.


We have this. You can wheel it like a suitcase or wear it as a backpack. We have the Britax Marathom and even I was able to wear it as a backpack when I traveled alone with DD when I was 38 weeks (yes-38 weeks!) preggo.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

I see these travelling babes and toddler car seat questions posted all the time, and have never had occassion to read one before... But NOW we are going to Hawaii, (6 hrs?) with dd who will be 31 mo. I was SO excited that the car rental place would provide a car seat, and I wouldn't have to lug that thing through airport and onto the plane, or check it and have it wrecked.

This thread has me wondering if we shouldn't bring it after all.

So, here are my ponderings:

it strikes me that the function of a car seat is to protect the baby/toddler from the effects of a collision, in a car (_car_-seat). seems like the thing would be so bulky and outta place, and uncomfortable on a plane...
these effects are things like being ejected from the car due to the forces involved in impact, wind-shield, over-head, etc...
anything that would cause those kinda forces on a PLANE would likely be more perilous than turbulence...
that kinda peril is major, and most likely, most of us wouldn't survive, so carseat or no, if the plane is goin' down, it's goin' down...
do 'they' make PLANE-seats? that protect against the effects experienced aboard aircraft; turbulence, or what-not, and are light-weight and easy to use?
would the regular seatbelt protect satisfactorily against the effects of turbulence? (someone made mention of toddlers flying around the cabin in the event of significant turbulence... what would my toddler be doing that I couldn't restrain her myself if there was significant turbulence? that gave me imagery of her just walking around alone up the aisle; pilots are generally aware of and announce turbulence as the plane passes into weather patterns that'd cause it, so one would have time to get belted in, to seat or car-seat, no?...)
lugging the car seat around isn't just a pita, it might be a financial thing as well, does the air line charge for additional checked baggage?
how will dd sleep? better stretched out with the arm up between two seats with her travel pillow and a blanet, or in her car-seat where she sleeps well on car-trips?
I wonder if OP could ship her car-seat home, and rent a smaller lighter one from a car rental co. and drop it off at the airport she arrives in? is that kooky?








Thing is, I dunno if it can be generalized as strictly a safety issue, given all the data... so it seems like it's more about whether or not (for some) they wanna deal with lugging it around, etc, in the name of some imagined safety standard (not speaking about car-safety, it's just that when car-seats became the norm, and laws were put into place for _obvious_ reasons, I don't think PLANE safety was considered and car seats don't seem well-fitted to air-travel... Britax needs to make a PLANE-seat.)


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Have you ladies seen this product? It looks ingenious. Unfortunately it's about $70+ ?

http://www.kidsflysafe.com/

It's a harness.

Quote:

CARES (for "Child Aviation
Restraint System") is an innovative belt-and-buckle harness
safety device that attaches directly to the airplane seat belt. It is the first
alternative airplane child safety system to be certified by the FAA
for all phases of flight - taxiing, take off, turbulence and landing.
The CARES airplane safety restraint harness is for children
between 22 and 44 pounds, and sitting in their own seat. CARES
weighs only 1 pound and installs in just 1 minute!

Quote:

On August 14, 2006, the FAA Rule permitting CARES to be brought on board planes by parents became effective. On August 30, 2006, CARES was certified for use on all United States commercial and private aircraft. The FAA notes that CARES is the only alternative to an FAA-certified car seat permitted on planes for children who weigh between 22 and 44 pounds sitting in their own seats.
I personally don't bring the carseats on board (we fly from California to East Coast once or twice a year.) Too much of a hassle and then my preschooler won't sit in it anyway, wasting valuable real estate space (that seat.)

I usually check it in at the gate (and risk damage).

The last time I rented a car seat in Hawaii, I got an old car seat and my firstborn son was miserable in it. I learned my lesson and I take my own car seat (the ones my kids are used to) so they are more comfortable.

My girlfriend just borrowed my Britax Roundabout (2001 - it's old and it's my back-up) so she wouldn't have to lug her Marathon for a plane trip.

I did recently purchase a folding car seat (very heavy, with latch, can't remember the name) in case I want to travel with something, I can take that.

I found this online.

Safer Airplane Travel with Babies & Toddlers


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

britax car seats are FAA approved for plane travel as are many others. Do you honestly think I just lug a car seat around an airplane and airport for the heck of it? It is not for some "imagined" safety standard. Turbulence is NOT always announced by the pilots. Plane seats are CPR's, child passenger restraints (the very same car seats you use in a car that are approved by the FAA). A crash is a crash, BUT turbulence is turbulence and it does kill and it does injure. Also, emergency landings can kill and injure. In those cases, a child passenger restraint would help a great deal. I have not found my child's restraint to be bulky and out of place on a plane, it was the safest way for him to fly on an airplane, and so we did that. It wasn't so awful, but then we are prepared to make his flight as safe as we can. Most times on airplanes these days there are no extra seats available for folks to stretch out and use two seats to take a nap. Folks who try to do lap babies are in for a rude awakening when they end up strangers next to them who are less than pleased that they are sharing a row meant for 3 people with four people instead. Bringing a car seat along is not a financial burden, they are not counted as luggage usually, and I would never rely on a car rental place to give me a proper seat for my child. I took a train once, and forgot the seat, and tried getting one from the car rental place, they tried giving me an infant restraint for my 2 yo, then a booster, then a very old seat with no book or instructions on how to properly install it. I asked them to borrow a better seat from a competing company, and finally found a reasonable seat, but it was not ideal, and I will never do that again. Now I travel with our own seat. I hardly call your post data, if you want data, there is some below. The FAA, the NTSB, the AAP, and the NHTSA all recommend children to use child passenger restraints aboard airplanes.

http://www.otoh.org/opal/carseat.html

http://www.faa.gov/passengers/media/childsafety.pdf

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...t/flysmart.ppt
Traveling with children (From the FAA)

Quote:


The regulations allow that a child
�who has not reached their 2nd birthday MAY be held by an adult who is occupying a seat.
The same regulation allows for the child to be in an approved child restraint system (CRS)
A child who is held by an adult has less protection in an accident than any piece of galley equipment on that airplane

In an accident occupants typically experience 20g's or 20 times their weight
A 20 pound child will react with a moving force of 400 pounds - there is no way you will be able to hold on to them
Strapping them into your seat belt will cause them to sustain fatal internal injuries and is illegal

The only option is to put them into an approved CRS
What's NOT approved
Booster seats
Vest / Harness-type CRS's
Belt-positioning booster seats
Belly belts

�Approved CRS's have a label that states:
�This restraint is certified for use in motor vehicles and aircraft�
If your child is:
Under 20 LBS - use a rear facing CRS
20 to 40 LBS - use forward facing CRS
Over 40 LBS - use the seat belt with no CRS

Ask airline if they offer a discounted fare for a child traveling in a CRS
A CRS should be placed in a window seat so it will not block the escape path
CRS�s will not be allowed in an Exit Row
Check the width of your CRS, if wider than 16 inches is unlikely to fit into a coach seat

If you do not purchase a ticket for your child, check with the airline and avoid flights during their busiest times
In many cases the airlines will allow you to use a CRS in an empty seat without having to pay a fare, however check with the airline for their policy regarding an empty seat, prior to booking the flight
From the AAP http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...s%3b108/5/1218

Quote:

In a study comparing persons fatally injured in aircraft in 1980 and 1990, blunt injury (in particular, head injury) from deceleration forces was the most important threat to survival. Head injuries were listed as the immediate cause of death in 33% of those younger than 15 years. As with other forms of transportation, effective restraint systems decrease the probability of head injury.

Turbulence is the leading cause of nonfatal injuries to aircraft passengers and flight attendants. From 1981 through 1997, there were 342 reports of turbulence affecting major airlines. Three passengers died, 80 had serious injuries, and 769 had minor injuries.

A child on the lap of an adult cannot be effectively restrained in a motor vehicle or aircraft crash. A child who travels on the lap of another occupant or unrestrained in a motor vehicle has a substantially greater risk of injury and death, compared with a restrained child. Hazards associated with the on-lap position are also well documented in aircraft crash investigations. Three children on the laps of adults were fatally injured and others nonfatally injured in the 1987 crash in Denver, CO, the 1989 crash in Sioux City, IA, and the 1994 crash in Charlotte, NCwhich were all caused by turbulence. The NTSB has reported 2 crashes in which CSSs were used and provided protection to children


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## Moochie Mamma (Jan 23, 2006)

We're home and chose not to bring the seat on the plane. I am planning to go to Target and buy a smaller, lightweight seat for future air travel. Here's why:

1. DD was not able to sleep stretched out between us well, nor on my lap. She woke every 20 min or so crying and needing to nurse and get more comfy. In her carseat on the way to Aus she slept great since she's used to her seat and it kept her from rolling around. I now have to go see the chiropractor tomorrow cause my back is messed up from holding a sleeping toddler in a strange position for several hours.

2. There was some turbulence and they asked us to put on seat belts. She did NOT want any part of the plane seat belt. Had it been her carseat I don't think she would have complained too much since she's used to it.

3. Our car seat didn't make it on the final leg of our flight so we were left at the airport without a seat to get her home in. Luckily the airline had a spare (crappy but better than nothing) which they lent us but if they hadn't we would have been SOL.

4. Rental car seats suck!

I now think it's worth the hassle of carrying a lightweight carseat through the airport to ensure the child is safe not only on the plane but that you have _your_ carseat when you arrive to where you're going.

I would buy one of the CARES harnesses but we live in a small town with a small airport. All of the flights out of here are either prop planes or very small jets that have seats that are not compatible with the harness. The reason is that the tray on the back of the seat is inset in the seat so if the harness was installed it would interfere with the tray being able to close.

Hope this helps!!!


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I had no idea so many people used car seats on planes for toddlers. Granted I don't fly much now, but I flew all the time growing up and in my pre-kid adult years, and I rarely encountered turbulence. I guess I don't understand why it's so much safer (since most crashes would result in death for everyone), or at least safer enough to the degree that it's worth the pita. Though I can see those stats up above. It's just that ime the child being restless chance is like, 100% (have only flown once with him though), and ime the turbulence chance is not so high.

Although I am passing on a weekend trip with the kids, b/c there's way no way I"m going to rely on the rental carseats or put my 4yo in a booster, and the trip and carseat lugging and hotel issues and everything doesn't seem worth it to me (call me lazy). So I can respect the striving for safety thing. But I still don't know if i'd use them on the plane.


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## SiValleySteph (Feb 26, 2003)

*Moochie Mamma* ,

Thank you so much for your update! Glad you all made it back safely. Sorry it was a rough trip!

It definitely helps and we will be bringing our carseat on board. (We have both a Marathon & a Roundabout and we travel with the Roundabout.) Our 13 hour flight is next Tuesday!


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

I haven't flown internationally, but have made several flights with babies/toddlers within the US. My observations:

*the airline wants you to check the carseat.
*the flight attendents are not happy to have to deal with you getting a bulky car seat to fit in the small airplane seats.
*ditto on any passengers who may be sitting near you - although in my experience, the car seat must be on the window so as not to restrict anyone getting out in case of emergency, but of course, you will be in the middle seat next to the car seat. However, the person in front of you cannot recline because the car seat and/or toddler's legs/feet are in the way.
*actually getting you, the toddler, the carseat, the luggage, your carryons, etc. from your car to the airplane is a nightmare. If you have more than one adult, it isn't as bad - but I'd never take a car seat if I was the only adult. Been there, done that - ugh.
*almost no one takes car seats. Every time I've flown with kids, my kids are the only ones on the plane that have car seats.

I can appreciate the "my kid is going to be as safe as possible/I'm going to prepare for every possibility/will deal with any amount of stress to make that happen" argument. I thought that way too - when I had only one kid.

On the flip side, I can imagine that the rental car car seats leave quite a bit to be desired. And that many kids would sleep better in their car seat. So IF I were to take a car seat on a plane (I really don't think I'll ever do this again - dd3 is almost four), I'd buy/borrow something small/lightweight. NO WAY that my Britax Wizards are going on a plane... Honestly, the seat next to it would have only partial room, and we all know that you are squeezed in as it is.


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## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jwebbal* 
britax car seats are FAA approved for plane travel as are many others. Do you honestly think I just lug a car seat around an airplane and airport for the heck of it? It is not for some "imagined" safety standard. Turbulence is NOT always announced by the pilots. Plane seats are CPR's, child passenger restraints (the very same car seats you use in a car that are approved by the FAA). A crash is a crash, BUT turbulence is turbulence and it does kill and it does injure. Also, emergency landings can kill and injure. In those cases, a child passenger restraint would help a great deal. I have not found my child's restraint to be bulky and out of place on a plane, it was the safest way for him to fly on an airplane, and so we did that. It wasn't so awful, but then we are prepared to make his flight as safe as we can. Most times on airplanes these days there are no extra seats available for folks to stretch out and use two seats to take a nap. Folks who try to do lap babies are in for a rude awakening when they end up strangers next to them who are less than pleased that they are sharing a row meant for 3 people with four people instead. Bringing a car seat along is not a financial burden, they are not counted as luggage usually, and I would never rely on a car rental place to give me a proper seat for my child. I took a train once, and forgot the seat, and tried getting one from the car rental place, they tried giving me an infant restraint for my 2 yo, then a booster, then a very old seat with no book or instructions on how to properly install it. I asked them to borrow a better seat from a competing company, and finally found a reasonable seat, but it was not ideal, and I will never do that again. Now I travel with our own seat. I hardly call your post data, if you want data, there is some below. The FAA, the NTSB, the AAP, and the NHTSA all recommend children to use child passenger restraints aboard airplanes.









:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
I haven't flown internationally, but have made several flights with babies/toddlers within the US. My observations:

*the airline wants you to check the carseat.
*the flight attendents are not happy to have to deal with you getting a bulky car seat to fit in the small airplane seats.
*ditto on any passengers who may be sitting near you - although in my experience, the car seat must be on the window so as not to restrict anyone getting out in case of emergency, but of course, you will be in the middle seat next to the car seat. However, the person in front of you cannot recline because the car seat and/or toddler's legs/feet are in the way.
*actually getting you, the toddler, the carseat, the luggage, your carryons, etc. from your car to the airplane is a nightmare. If you have more than one adult, it isn't as bad - but I'd never take a car seat if I was the only adult. Been there, done that - ugh.
*almost no one takes car seats. Every time I've flown with kids, my kids are the only ones on the plane that have car seats.

I can appreciate the "my kid is going to be as safe as possible/I'm going to prepare for every possibility/will deal with any amount of stress to make that happen" argument. I thought that way too - when I had only one kid.

On the flip side, I can imagine that the rental car car seats leave quite a bit to be desired. And that many kids would sleep better in their car seat. So IF I were to take a car seat on a plane (I really don't think I'll ever do this again - dd3 is almost four), I'd buy/borrow something small/lightweight. NO WAY that my Britax Wizards are going on a plane... Honestly, the seat next to it would have only partial room, and we all know that you are squeezed in as it is.

Just wanted to respond to a few things, as we've flow a lot over the last 2.5 years (DD took 22 flights by the time she was two).

*the airline wants you to check the carseat. *Nope. Never had anyone with the airline tell me they wanted us to check the seat. In fact, we are always getting comments on how nice it is to see parents bringing the car seat on.*
*the flight attendents are not happy to have to deal with you getting a bulky car seat to fit in the small airplane seats. *Again, we've only ever had positive comments regarding the seat from airline employees. Flight attendants also go out of their way to assist us when necessary.*
*ditto on any passengers who may be sitting near you - although in my experience, the car seat must be on the window so as not to restrict anyone getting out in case of emergency, but of course, you will be in the middle seat next to the car seat. However, the person in front of you cannot recline because the car seat and/or toddler's legs/feet are in the way. *Nope. The seats always recline in front of us. Even in those little 50 person planes. If the seat were rear facing this may be an issue. Also, I always sit next to DD in the middle (as you said, they have to be in a window) so we've never been a bother to other passengers.*
*actually getting you, the toddler, the carseat, the luggage, your carryons, etc. from your car to the airplane is a nightmare. If you have more than one adult, it isn't as bad - but I'd never take a car seat if I was the only adult. Been there, done that - ugh. *I too did it when I was 38 weeks preggo with DD, so I can relate. Yep, it's a pain.*
*almost no one takes car seats. Every time I've flown with kids, my kids are the only ones on the plane that have car seats. *I have seen quite a few car seats on planes actually (I travel for business as well so tend to fly a bit). All of my IRL friends also travel w/ their car seats. I of course see as many lap babies.*

Just my experience - I wanted to show the other side as well, for moms who may be on the fence about this issue. We've always had a very good experience with the car seats on planes. Granted, I usually fly with DH so that makes it easier. Alone is tough!


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## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
I had no idea so many people used car seats on planes for toddlers. Granted I don't fly much now, but I flew all the time growing up and in my pre-kid adult years, and I rarely encountered turbulence. I guess I don't understand why it's so much safer (since most crashes would result in death for everyone), or at least safer enough to the degree that it's worth the pita. Though I can see those stats up above. It's just that ime the child being restless chance is like, 100% (have only flown once with him though), and ime the turbulence chance is not so high.

I travel for business quite often and I experience turbulance on almost every flight I take. Usually it is very minor and doesn't last long though. I will tell you that I have been in such severe turbulance that I don't think I would've been able to hold onto a baby or toddler to keep them from flying up and hitting the ceiling of the plane. It's so scary and it came on out of the blue, with no notice at all. This is why we fly with a car seat. JME...


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Quote:

Though I can see those stats up above. It's just that ime the child being restless chance is like, 100% (have only flown once with him though), and ime the turbulence chance is not so high.
I said it earlier and I don't mean to say I told her so, but the OP talked about how her daughter was restless on her 14 hour flight and slept for only 6 hours, so she didn't take the car seat, and her daughter barely slept. I pointed out before that return flight that perhaps it might end up being that way, that without a car seat a child would be less likely to sleep. Now OP, I don't say that to be rude or "I told you so", I appreciate the fact that you had your experience and shared it with the board, and learned from it. I am grateful you did that. I know for my own son that would be the case, he knows he can fall asleep in his car seat, but regular sleeping would be harder for him on a plane out of a car seat. If a child is restless, you CAN take them for a little walk to the bathroom, or even take them out of their seat, but to not have that seat when you need it seems so short sighted. Turbulence DOES happen, and you might not think the chances are that high, BUT if if it did, what would you do then? Of course you could try the regular seat belt (if your child has a seat, lap babies would be at serious risk), but I personally would not rely on that. It just doesn't seem adequate for the extreme turbulence we are talking about, the kind I and the poster above me have experienced. I know I could not have held onto my child when we were dropping hundreds if not a couple thousand feet at a time.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jwebbal* 
I said it earlier and I don't mean to say I told her so, but the OP talked about how her daughter was restless on her 14 hour flight and slept for only 6 hours, so she didn't take the car seat, and her daughter barely slept. I pointed out before that return flight that perhaps it might end up being that way, that without a car seat a child would be less likely to sleep.

That is ONE SINGLE case. Most kids do fine sleeping with a comfy pillow and blanket (we bring our own). My dd would be climbing the walls if we brought her car seat. And in my experience, watching dozens of other kids on international flights, so would they. You are giving all of this advice and you haven't even ever flown transatlantically (or pacifically) according to your past posts. Flying in the US and flying OUS are really two completely different animals with a whole different set of rules and completely different tricks that work. You are giving advice based on short flights (anything under 6 hours is short IMHO).


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatoablessing* 







:

Just wanted to respond to a few things, as we've flow a lot over the last 2.5 years (DD took 22 flights by the time she was two).

*the airline wants you to check the carseat. *Nope. Never had anyone with the airline tell me they wanted us to check the seat. In fact, we are always getting comments on how nice it is to see parents bringing the car seat on.*
*the flight attendents are not happy to have to deal with you getting a bulky car seat to fit in the small airplane seats. *Again, we've only ever had positive comments regarding the seat from airline employees. Flight attendants also go out of their way to assist us when necessary.*
*ditto on any passengers who may be sitting near you - although in my experience, the car seat must be on the window so as not to restrict anyone getting out in case of emergency, but of course, you will be in the middle seat next to the car seat. However, the person in front of you cannot recline because the car seat and/or toddler's legs/feet are in the way. *Nope. The seats always recline in front of us. Even in those little 50 person planes. If the seat were rear facing this may be an issue. Also, I always sit next to DD in the middle (as you said, they have to be in a window) so we've never been a bother to other passengers.*
*actually getting you, the toddler, the carseat, the luggage, your carryons, etc. from your car to the airplane is a nightmare. If you have more than one adult, it isn't as bad - but I'd never take a car seat if I was the only adult. Been there, done that - ugh. *I too did it when I was 38 weeks preggo with DD, so I can relate. Yep, it's a pain.*
*almost no one takes car seats. Every time I've flown with kids, my kids are the only ones on the plane that have car seats. *I have seen quite a few car seats on planes actually (I travel for business as well so tend to fly a bit). All of my IRL friends also travel w/ their car seats. I of course see as many lap babies.*

Just my experience - I wanted to show the other side as well, for moms who may be on the fence about this issue. We've always had a very good experience with the car seats on planes. Granted, I usually fly with DH so that makes it easier. Alone is tough!










How many of your flights were international flights on not US carriers?


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## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
How many of your flights were international flights on not US carriers?

None, so that is definitely an area where I lack experience. I was simply sharing our experience with airline personnel and the actual plane logisitcs. Not sure what we would do if we flew overseas.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatoablessing* 
None, so that is definitely an area where I lack experience. I was simply sharing our experience with airline personnel and the actual plane logisitcs. Not sure what we would do if we flew overseas.

Believe me.... it is TOTALLY different on non US carriers. The OP was flying internationally.


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## SiValleySteph (Feb 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Believe me.... it is TOTALLY different on non US carriers. The OP was flying internationally.

Yes, but *mamatoablessing* was responding to *Kirsten* who herself said that she never flew internationally.

We're taking a US carrier next week, so I'm not anticipating any trouble flying with our carseat. I'll report back.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SiValleySteph* 
Yes, but *mamatoablessing* was responding to *Kirsten* who herself said that she never flew internationally.

I thought she was responding to the OP. Sorry.


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Australian carriers also recommend car seats for childen during flight.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

: <-- see as "data" flying at me...

Wow! Thanks for all the numbers and such. Sincerely. It was really something to see OP's report on how her trip home went.

All the input has _me_ back on the fence more so than before...
1st, I apologize to anyone who found my musings offensive, in my own pp.

K, with that said I'm hoping OP doesn't mind a minor hijacking; I don't know that yet another thread on this topic is nec, and hope to just get input from y'all here.

DD sleeps very well, now, in her car seat; if it's suggested that she try a car-nap she conks right out. I wasn't worried about the car-rental car-seat, but now I am. And OP's experience on her trip home made me think it might be best to just bring it... some other factors are that she'll be just over 2.5, it's a 45 min drive from home to the airport, this is DH's first time traveling further than 2 hours outta town, he does NOT deal with stress or hurrying well, nor fussy folk (be it me, dd, or flight attendants), and has a fear of flying, so will likely be medicated!... Departure is 8AM, arriving about 10-11, I think given the time change - Pacific NW to Hawaii, direct flight, but have to drive from airport to country side of the island Oahu, like 45 min, and we will be driving frequently while there for 5 days, in order to cook and clean for a friend who's due at that time.

To those of you who have no complaints about bringing the car seat, what kinda things did you do, or do you recommend to make it flow easier, etc?

For those of you for whom it's a pita not worth doing, what if it was easier to do? How did you deal with toddler-issues, did you experience turbulence, etc, with your toddler?


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## Moochie Mamma (Jan 23, 2006)

Hi- don't mind hijaking at all. If I was you I would just take your seat. She's used to it, you know how to install it, you'll be assured it will make it there with you, etc. I'm going to buy a lightwt seat so I always have one with me when flying with DD until she's over 40lb.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Moochie Mamma* 
Hi- don't mind hijaking at all. If I was you I would just take your seat. She's used to it, you know how to install it, you'll be assured it will make it there with you, etc. I'm going to buy a lightwt seat so I always have one with me when flying with DD until she's over 40lb.

Hi moochie! Thanks! So interesting enough, dd just started complaining that her "back hurts" in her seat, and dh checked it tonight, and it seems to almost be coming apart, a plastic piece from underneath (flimsy, like a spacer or something) had come loose. (!?) And the styro-foam side under the upholstery had a break in it, so we're gonna be in the market for a new too... maybe you could point me in the right direction if you have already found one you like... or maybe I'll find one to point you to! Good luck! Looks like we're taking it!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
To those of you who have no complaints about bringing the car seat, what kinda things did you do, or do you recommend to make it flow easier, etc?


We bring the stroller- carseat goes on stroller, dd goes on my back. We pre-board if possible and put the carseat in. Get a belt extender as you board. Makes installing and uninstalling the seat much easier.

good luck!

-Angela


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

there is a trick with the seat belt as well, is to turn it so the latch to undo it is backwards, so you can reach it and it doesn't get stuck in the car seat. I always use bungee cords or the latch attachment to attach the car seat to my stroller. Put the kid on me (sling or ergo) or sometimes even in the seat (it worked when he was older), pre-board, ask for help if needed, if just asking someone to hold the baby while you put the seat in. I rear faced my kid on airplanes till me was 1, and if the flight attendant gives you a hard time about that (sometimes people complain about not being able to recline) have them look up their own regulations. Make sure you are not in an exit aisle as well.

Oh, and ask for a seat belt extender, makes it easier.


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## SiValleySteph (Feb 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
To those of you who have no complaints about bringing the car seat, what kinda things did you do, or do you recommend to make it flow easier, etc?

I posted earlier about the GoGoKidz attachment that we have for the carseat. DS likes to pull it around the airport while we hold the carryons. If he tires of pulling it, I just pile the carryons in the carseat.

Here is DS pulling his carseat at 20mo, I think, before a redeye flight (hence the PJs) from West Coast to East Coast. He slept the entire way, no problems. We didn't bother with the stroller on this trip.

I get the seatbelt extender as well from the flight attendent while boarding. Sometimes it takes them a while to get it, but it's worked out pretty well.

DH is in the process of rigging up a tray for DS for our 13 hour flight next week. You can't generally use the tray table with the carseat. He's using a wooden puzzle. I'll let you know how it turns out.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
We bring the stroller- carseat goes on stroller, dd goes on my back. We pre-board if possible and put the carseat in. Get a belt extender as you board. Makes installing and uninstalling the seat much easier.

good luck!

-Angela

Thanks! So it looks like I will totally get a belt extender...!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jwebbal* 
there is a trick with the seat belt as well, is to turn it so the latch to undo it is backwards, so you can reach it and it doesn't get stuck in the car seat. I always use bungee cords or the latch attachment to attach the car seat to my stroller. Put the kid on me (sling or ergo) or sometimes even in the seat (it worked when he was older), pre-board, ask for help if needed, if just asking someone to hold the baby while you put the seat in. I rear faced my kid on airplanes till me was 1, and if the flight attendant gives you a hard time about that (sometimes people complain about not being able to recline) have them look up their own regulations. Make sure you are not in an exit aisle as well.

Oh, and ask for a seat belt extender, makes it easier.

Backpack/ergo, check! Belt extender, check, again!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *SiValleySteph* 
I posted earlier about the GoGoKidz attachment that we have for the carseat. DS likes to pull it around the airport while we hold the carryons. If he tires of pulling it, I just pile the carryons in the carseat.

Here is DS pulling his carseat at 20mo, I think, before a redeye flight (hence the PJs) from West Coast to East Coast. He slept the entire way, no problems. We didn't bother with the stroller on this trip.

I get the seatbelt extender as well from the flight attendent while boarding. Sometimes it takes them a while to get it, but it's worked out pretty well.

DH is in the process of rigging up a tray for DS for our 13 hour flight next week. You can't generally use the tray table with the carseat. He's using a wooden puzzle. I'll let you know how it turns out.









SIL is giong on a trip too, and we're looking at getting that GoGoKidz set-up to share; thanks, I'll check the link... totally cute pic!

Please do let me know about the tray situation as we're thinking of either trying to constrict one or buy something...


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## SiValleySteph (Feb 26, 2003)

We're back! DS rode in his Roundabout for our int'l flights on United. No comments about the carseat either way from flight attendants. It worked well for us. On the "to" flight, DS slept only about 2 hours out of a 13 hour flight, but still sat in his carseat all except for about 30 min of walking around and bathroom trips. On the return, DS slept about 3 hours of a 10 hour flight. He did lay in my lap to nurse and to rest for about 30 min.

He's 2.5, by the way.

We also took some internal China flights. He had his own seat, but we didn't bring the carseat. He was sitting in his seat buckled in when we were about to descend on the first flight. The flight attendant asked me to hold him instead, I did. The 2nd flight I just held him the whole time.

We did make up a tray out of a wooden puzzle base. It worked reasonably well. It was just so cramped because the carseat doesn't recline and there isn't much room when the person in front reclines. DS was still able to use our makeshift tray for playdough, coloring, snacks, etc. By far, the thing he most wanted to do was watch DVDs on the portable DVD played (bought for this trip). He has quite limited TV at home, so this was a real treat for him.

I'm glad we used the carseat on this trip. I'm not sure how much longer we will keep using it, though, just because of the space issue. It was very cramped for him. We could barely get his legs between the carseat and the reclined seat in front. He didn't complain, though.

ETA - We did use a selt belt extender. Both times we were told to try it w/o it first. Umm... this isn't our first time travelling with the carseat.


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