# Telling kids to say "thank you"



## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

How bad is it, really?

I wanted to be in the "I never tell my child to say please and thank you" camp. But I find myself prompting him in certain situations. ie- someone gives him a gift, and I say "ooh, tell her thank you!" (in a fun voice, like "that is so cool! thanks for that!" Or I'll say "thank you" in a voice that implies that I'm waiting for him to say it too.
I never go further than that. So if he doesn't say it, that's the end of it. But he generally does. His response is to happily say Thanks and go on with his business.

So, should I try a lot harder to stop telling him to say it?


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I model it, rarely prompt for it, never require it.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Well I'm firmly IN the tell my kid to say please and thank you camp. I do NOT get where this because a bad thing.







: It can be hard for shy kids and I wouldn't force it model it gently request it but I also have no issues in doing it for them. (saying thank you for them)


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## CityChic (Jan 18, 2007)

I think another thing that might help in "modeling" Please/Thank You is doing it in ordinary events, not just extraordinary events.

My husband and I say Please/Thank You around the house regularly. It is a sign of respect and then becomes common toward others as well.

"Thank You for taking the laundry downstairs"
"Thank You for doing the dishes"
"Please pick up the mail on your way inside"

You get the point...


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

We model it, and I have never forced it, but with my 6yo I do sometimes whisper in his ear to remind him to say thank you in certain situations. I try to do it in a way that he doesn't feel like I am embarassing him.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Ds definitely says Thank You on his own in regular every day things. When I cook dinner, when I help him find a toy, etc. I say thank you a lot to both ds and dp. And I think dp does too (but I don't pay a lot of attention. I'm sure he does)

I think he just hasn't gotten the hang of it in the other situations. I know he will if I just model it. But part of me feels like I have to do *something*- it's kinda silly.
I'd never force it, or even remind him twice or anything like that.

Hmmm. I'll have to see what happens if I just say it for him, and don't actually prompt him at all. I bet he says it too.


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## mezzaluna (Jun 8, 2004)

becky - i do the same with my DS - i will suggest that he say thank you, but i don't make any comment to him if he doesn't. in fact i often just say "let's say thank you" and if he doesn't say it i say it anyway - assuming it's a third party that should be thanked. i have never asked him to thank me... hmmm... never thought about that









at the moment he reliably says thank you when you hand him a piece of string cheese... for some reason he's learned that's part of that interaction, but he hasn't quite generalized to other situations


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

I model it for everyday things, and remind my son that it is a "thank you"-appropriate occasion by saying, "She gave you something." At first I would say, "Look, she gave you something. Now is a good time to tell her thank you." Now I can stop at "She gave you something."

Sometimes I think he's in such awe at the delight of a new doodad/snack/compliment that he just forgets to say it. I like to help him channel that awe and delight into an something that makes the giver feel delighted too.

If he doesn't say it, I will model it, and then let the matter drop.


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

There was a short period of time last year during which I prompted my dc to say please and thank you. I was feeling pressure to 'teach' them this social expectation because of the people who were regularly around our family at that time. Then I thought about it and didn't think it made sense for me to be expecting them to self-prompt without feeling internally, autonomously desirous of doing so. The words meant nothing then and were sort of like a password- not much more, except that it brought outside approval (not something I want my dc to focus on). So I stopped prompting. I think the modelling of this behaviour is only a clue to why we say those things, but they have to actually understand what those words mean and then feel the desire to say them unprompted for them to be real. This is why I don't actively model this; it is simply a part of how I express my own feelings and gratitude; they are free to do the same, but not expected to, and not based on my behaviour, either.

Now they say it spontaneously in the middle of a meal as they feel genuinely grateful for the enjoyment they are experiencing and then connecting that to the work I did to provide the meal for them. That is worth so much more to me than rote repetition that I couldn't compel them to do it even if pressured (and the pressure still happens, but I am much more confident in my relationship to my dc than I was before). Even if it took another 10 years, I prefer an honest exchange over an approval-seeking, password to obtaining something over which I have 'control,' or a ritualistic 'please and thank you.'

That's just my take, and I am VERY sure that many of the people in our life DO NOT see it that way, but they don't live here and _dh and I_ are raising _our_ dc, not them.......sooooooo, suck it up


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## kokonutmama (Feb 12, 2006)

I use the line "this is a good time to say" quite a bit. For us, "thanks" is not such a big issue, if he is grateful for something, he says it unless he's been distracted, in which case I whisper in his ear, "do you want to say thank you?" so if he doesn't it's not a scene.

For us, the thing lately is "please." I've been more of a stickler on that one because it slows him down and it's a more tricky social skill that I think needs more patience and instruction to learn and to teach. It's not the work that concerns me, it's the sentiment. At 2-and-almost-a-half he's got a real tendancy to snatch, beg, whine and/or demand. I never thought I'd be the mom who requires the "code words" when asking for something, but I've found it an essential part of my toolbox for helping him understand that he's part of a community and we need to consider each other's needs, wants and feelings in addition to our own. "Please, may I have some booby mommy?" is much more appropriate in that sense than burrowing uninvited under my t-shirt, regardless of what I'm doing at the moment. Even "I want booby" would be acceptable by me, if it were not accompanied by grabbing, pulling, burrowing, etc, but somehow the "please" version is more effective in inpiring him to consider my needs as well as his. So, "please" it is around here most of the time, and I have no regrets about that.


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## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Ds says thank you about 90% of the time. He gets shy with people he's never met before that give him something so in those cases I say thank-you to the person instead.. After I have said it, he does normally repeat after me. He just gets a little shy at times! I really don't see the point of "forced" thank-yous.


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## mothragirl (Sep 10, 2005)

we model it and say it for her, we do the same for "please" and "sorry". thank you was one of her first words







, but she doesn't use it with strangers yet.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

i've gone back and forth on this one.I don't want my child to do something just for outside approval but I also believe that saying please and thank-you do more than just gain others approval.

When a child uses the "code words" with me I just feel more like doing what they ask. "please" helps take away any resentment i might have at complying to a demand. And thank-you does the same for me. I don't force these words often but if I feel these words are warranted I will ask for them- especially if feeling resentful about the request.

I don't believe my child saying please or thank-you without knwing the EXACT meaning will take away any future gratitude or politeness they genuinely will want to express at a later date. I think it is all in how the child is asked to use these words. For instance demanding that they say please in a loud voice in front of others is treating that child in a rude way-kind've counterproductive. But suggesting or whispering the idea to them- I can see no harm at all.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

we model.

i would like for dd to eventually say please and thank you because she is genuinely polite and appreciative, not because she's parroting the socially appropriate words to say.

we also have a pretty good handle on when to expect this, developmentally. and even then, she's surprised us. dd is 18 months old and i'm pretty sure she says 'thanks' (sounds like "tan") when we give her something. we don't make a big deal about it, we just say you're welcome and go on our merry way. obviously it's working so we'll keep doing what we're doing.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mezzaluna* 
i have never asked him to thank me... hmmm... never thought about that









Did I imply that I did that? or was that just something you added?
Cuz if I implied it, it didn't come out the way I meant it! I'm pretty sure I've never asked him to thank me for something. lol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreggieUBA2C* 
Now they say it spontaneously in the middle of a meal as they feel genuinely grateful for the enjoyment they are experiencing and then connecting that to the work I did to provide the meal for them. That is worth so much more to me than rote repetition that I couldn't compel them to do it even if pressured (and the pressure still happens, but I am much more confident in my relationship to my dc than I was before). Even if it took another 10 years, I prefer an honest exchange over an approval-seeking, password to obtaining something over which I have 'control,' or a ritualistic 'please and thank you.'

I agree. I love the voice that ds uses when he genuinely says it. "Ohhhh THANK you!!!" like it's the best thing anyone could ever have done for him. And he says it for stuff like me bringing him food. Which I can't imagine I'd expect to be thanked for. lol


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

ITA. I NEVER force it. I ask him once and if he doesn't want to I say thanks for him. I agree that modeling is important. But there are times when he seems to say it without problems, and then phases where he forgets and never does. If he doesn't, I believe in also asking him to say it. To me it's a world of difference between doing it once and standing there, forcing him to do it. In fact I think it's also out of respect to the adults half the time- I don't think it looks too polite if I let him just scamper off and don't even attempt to say thanks together.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
Well I'm firmly IN the tell my kid to say please and thank you camp. I do NOT get where this because a bad thing.







: It can be hard for shy kids and I wouldn't force it model it gently request it but I also have no issues in doing it for them. (saying thank you for them)


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mezzaluna* 
i have never asked him to thank me... hmmm... never thought about that










Sometimes when I have been doing a lot for ds, whatever it may be - making special foods, buying toys, buying treats, etc., and he starts immediately wanting more more more - I sometimes stop and say "Thank you mommy for doing xxx!" I do it in kind of a joking way, but I guess it's my way of saying "Hey kid, would it kill you to show a little bit of gratitude?"


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## BoysBoysBoys! (Feb 16, 2007)

Whenever my kids don't say "please," I say, "what's the magic word?"


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

ITA. I NEVER force it. I ask him once and if he doesn't want to I say thanks for him. I agree that modeling is important. But there are times when he seems to say it without problems, and then phases where he forgets and never does. If he doesn't, I believe in also asking him to say it. To me it's a world of difference between doing it once and standing there, forcing him to do it. In fact I think it's also out of respect to the adults half the time- I don't think it looks too polite if I let him just scamper off and don't even attempt to say thanks together.
Yup--everything she said.

One thing about "please"--I actually don't really care if my DD says "please" most of the time--I just want her tone to be polite and not yelling/demanding. However, when I ask her to ask more nicely, she tends to just add in a "please" automatically. This is interesting, since I never specifically said "say please."

I've also noticed that I say please to DD, but not to my DH! Weird, huh? I think we find "please" a little chilly and formal between the two of us. I'd be more likely to say "Hey, could you do X? That's be great--thanks!"


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## nighten (Oct 18, 2005)

We model it constantly, even with the animals and inanimate objects (we have a song we sing to say bye-bye to things when we're getting ready for bed, and saying thank you to the things for letting us play with them, etc., is part of it).

I think it's very important to use please, thank you, and Sir and Ma'am. But that's the norm where I live. And while my toddler's not using the words yet, we taught her the signs for please and thank you, and we use Sir and Ma'am all the time too.

While I don't think it's harmful to prompt a child to be polite, I think it's more effective to model it constantly. If your child isn't using please or thank you, then check yourself and see how often you use it maybe?

I am on the fence with forcing a child to say thank you, but for us it's important to instill in our child the importance of being polite and kind to others. So it's something we do with her and with others around her as often as possible. But as with anything, it can take time. So if your child doesn't respond with politeness immediately, maybe you can simply thank the other person for the child, by saying, "Let's say thank you to <person>. Thank you <for whatever>!" and leave it at that.

That way the person is being thanked, and you're still being the model for your child.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I DO tell my children to say please and thank you. I don't 'force' them to. Actually, I'm not sure how you could force anyone to say anything - I can't very well sit on them and make their mouth move!









I view this as a teaching opportunity. We say 'thank you' when we receive a gift, or even when someone just does something helpful for us. We say 'please' and 'thank you' when we ask for something - whether it be at home with mom and dad or whether it be in a restaurant or a store.

They need a series of ready social phrases in order to smooth the wheels of interaction. They need to know how to greet people, say please and thank you, and say goodbye. They also need to know how to introduce themselves, and when they have or attend a party, to introduce the guests to each other (this is obviously a skill for older children, but I fully intended to teach it to my kids when they are a bit older.) These are the social norms of our society, and if you can't/won't do these things, you will have a much harder time making friends, getting help from store clerks, etc. Kids are not born knowing this.

We also model it constantly. We say thank you when our children do something for us. If I have something I want ds to do, and it's not something that he's 'required' to do (so it's not something like brushing teeth), then I'll ask, "T, can you do me a favor? Can you go get me a cloth from the kitchen please?" 9 times out of 10, he'll do it cheerfully, and I'll give him a honest 'thank you'. For things that are 'non-negotiable' I still use please. "Please brush your teeth."

However, despite this constant modeling, ds *did not* pick up these words naturally. Maybe it's the fact that he's an introvert. Maybe it's his sensory processing issues. Maybe it's a combination of things. I didn't notice really until dd stared to talk and began saying please and thank you naturally. It took my dd to teach me that it wasn't my parenting that was the issue with ds, it was him. He needs more direct instruction for social things. Ds needs LOTS and LOTS of practice before it comes naturally. And so, we've practiced. And prompeted. And explained. "If you don't greet your friends, they'll think you don't want to play/they'll think you don't like them." "Do you see that G looked sad when you wouldn't say hello?"

We've just had birthday parties for each of our children. When their guests arrived, the birthday child was there to greet them, and if they were busy playing, I called their attention to the fact that a new guest had arrived. I asked them to say thank you for their gifts. I asked them to say 'good bye' to their friends as they left. Ds, after 3 years of intense work, was FINALLY able to do this.

Dd, after one prompt, very prettily said "thank you for coming to my party" to each of her departing guests. Social skills come very naturally to her. But they don't come naturally to everyone, and I firmly believe that when they don't come naturally, they should be taught.


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## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
I DO tell my children to say please and thank you. I don't 'force' them to. Actually, I'm not sure how you could force anyone to say anything - I can't very well sit on them and make their mouth move!









I view this as a teaching opportunity. We say 'thank you' when we receive a gift, or even when someone just does something helpful for us. We say 'please' and 'thank you' when we ask for something - whether it be at home with mom and dad or whether it be in a restaurant or a store.

They need a series of ready social phrases in order to smooth the wheels of interaction. They need to know how to greet people, say please and thank you, and say goodbye. They also need to know how to introduce themselves, and when they have or attend a party, to introduce the guests to each other (this is obviously a skill for older children, but I fully intended to teach it to my kids when they are a bit older.) These are the social norms of our society, and if you can't/won't do these things, you will have a much harder time making friends, getting help from store clerks, etc. Kids are not born knowing this.

I agree 100% with this.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

oh I've seen it "forced" a lot of times! True they can't make them say it, but they stand over them repeating "Say.Thank.You." through gritted teeth while everyone shuffles uncomfortably until the kid finally says it. I hate being on the receiving end of that. It seems like the norm a lot- I worry that someone will think I'm rude if I don't push it, but I'm not gonna. My niece would get sent to her room for not saying it.

Though I agree that it's a learning opportunity. Plus, I'd be curious if those learning from modeling are older than four and saying it consistently? My son is just four, but he definitely goes through phases where he says it unprompted and then doesn't say it at all. It's not really consistent. I say it all the time to my son, along with please, though I also don't say it too much to my spouse. I guess we try to speak nicely, but I don't really thank him much for little things like I do with ds.


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## mamamelia (Apr 14, 2005)

we never taught our daughter to say thankyou or please as we did not think that her saying it neccessarily meant that she understood it's meaning, and so decided to leave it until she was older. we did not want her to hand out forced and empty "thankyou's" because she felt she needed to. well, she picked it up on her own after watching us do it all the time. in fact, the first time she did say "please" we were trying to figure out what the heck she was saying when she asked for something as it came out as "pis". now she says thankyou and please all the time and i think she finally understands it as she says "thankyou daddy! thankyou mummy! thankyou grandma!" depending on who has done what. i think it's so cool.









we will be doing the same with our dd2. btw, if someone would hand her something and wait for the thankyou, WE would say thankyou to them from us.


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## LifeIZBeautiful (Jan 28, 2007)

model, repeat....
our kids say thank you without prompting now. At first, we would say, "Oh, thank you!" for them. It wasn't long before they did it, too.


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## LifeIZBeautiful (Jan 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
I DO tell my children to say please and thank you. I don't 'force' them to. Actually, I'm not sure how you could force anyone to say anything - I can't very well sit on them and make their mouth move!









.

I believe this is what is meant by the "making them". I don't think anyone would actually, physically make a child say something.
I have to say that telling them to say something, in place of your saying it on their behalf until they pick it up, is giving them social tools they just aren't ready to understand (In essence, training them to respond on cue). Once a child understands why you say thank you, they will naturally (most likely) follow your modeling and use it, too. This has been our experience.
I don't mean to judge your choice, but to clarify that this is what the OP may have meant anyway. Either way comes down to the parent's comfort level. We are comfortable with our kid's saying socially appropriate phrases once they understand them--not before. What other people think is not a consideration over our children.


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## LifeIZBeautiful (Jan 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamamelia* 
we never taught our daughter to say thankyou or please as we did not think that her saying it neccessarily meant that she understood it's meaning, and so decided to leave it until she was older. we did not want her to hand out forced and empty "thankyou's" because she felt she needed to. well, she picked it up on her own after watching us do it all the time. in fact, the first time she did say "please" we were trying to figure out what the heck she was saying when she asked for something as *it came out as "pis".* now she says thankyou and please all the time and i think she finally understands it as she says *"thankyou daddy! thankyou mummy! thankyou grandma!"* depending on who has done what. i think it's so cool.









we will be doing the same with our dd2. btw, if someone would hand her something and wait for the thankyou, WE would say thankyou to them from us.









LOVE it!!
And, doesn't her response feel genuine compared to say, my nephew, who says "Thank you " in the most monotone, non-chalant way?


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

It took my dd to teach me that it wasn't my parenting that was the issue with ds, it was him. He needs more direct instruction for social things.
Thank you for pointing this out--I think it is often overlooked in these discussions on MDC. It seems like everyone always posts, "Well, we are just naturally so polite to each other that my child picked it up without my ever saying anything"...and I could be imagining it, but I always hear an undercurrent of "...and if your child didn't, you must be one rude family." I think kids differ in how quickly they pick up the social graces. My DD isn't that tuned into them either, and has required a fair bit of direct help.


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## aja-belly (Oct 7, 2004)

i always say thank you when i feel it's appropriate. if ds wants to or not is his choice. he does very often, definately not always. he's only 2 though.

i don't at all see the point in requiring it. i don't for a second believe that you can teach gratitude....


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## aja-belly (Oct 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
My DD isn't that tuned into them either, and has required a fair bit of direct help.

but your daughter is 3. i don't think anyone is assuming a kid will have it down by age 3 (i can't imagine jet will)...


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## NaomiMcC (Mar 22, 2007)

Please and thank you are big ones in our family. It's simply a matter of good manners and a show of respect. There is no not saying it. Simple as that. We're big sticklers in the manners department with our kid(s).


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

Wow, I have been into this AP/NFL thing for many years now and this is the first time I have heard that it is "bad" to expect manners out of your children!

Manners are huge to me, as they were to my mother. Maybe it is the souther in us?









I begin modeling good manners at birth (not that they have a clue at that point, lol) and by around 18 months both of my children had said "please" and "thank you" with very little prompting.

I am not one to conform to society, not at all. I am a pagan, bi-sexual, natural living hippie, living in the Bible belt. Conforming isn't something that I've ever done. But manners...well to me, good manners are just basic respect for our fellow man. That, and I cannot STAND to be around rude children (or rude _anyone_ for that matter).

I have absolutely no problem at all "forcing" my children to have manners. They are also required to say "excuse me" when they burp or pass gas and to say "excuse me" if they need to get by someone, etc. That is just basic to me. I am shocked that so many people have a problem with it!


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

NaomiMcC and Slabobbin raised exactly the issue I was concerned with, but from a different perspective. I've already posted why we don't prompt our children, but I didn't mention this aspect of our choice. Dh and I come from differnt cultural backgrounds; what is 'polite' in his family is not the same as what is 'polite' in mine. In fact, some of his 'manners' are offensive to my grandparents and parents and his family thinks that my manners are an expression of insecurity and lack of comfort with them. The fact that if we take our children to anywhere else in the world, they will be surrounded by a completely different social construct that we call 'politeness' is one of the perspectives that informs our decision to not insist on manners as much as we insist on treating others with respect and dignity, having hearts filled with compassion and love. These things don't change with the social climate, but manners do.

We think that teaching manners ahead of providing opportunities, through life experience, to meet and love others where they are as who they are is putting the cart before the horse; honest concern and a willing heart and hands is 100 times more valuable than any set of manners could ever be. Manners can always be learned, so we're in no hurry.

We moved up north, and let me tell you, not much of what was considered good manners before is of much value here. It's a good thing I don't have to rely on my manners to get along- I can just be forthright with empathy and most situations are resolved in good order, not all, but being 'polite' wouldn't necessarily solve them either. Bear in mind that it is not my opinion that we should speak or act in ways that are obviously offensive- that goes with our expectation that we all treat others with dignity. Also, some 'rude' people have changed the world's perceptions, through dropping politeness in favour of frankness (Patch Adams, Martin Luther, G.K. Chesterton, Oscar Wilde, etc...). They may have said please and thank you, but certainly, they threw off the god of politeness for something better (IMO).

I think everyone has hard social moments; in those moments, politeness often creates a distance where a heartfelt expression would bridge a gap.

'Just my experience.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

I also insist that my children say "please and Thank you" It's just respectful and polite.

However....I do not remind them in front of the people to whom they must say these things. I give them plenty of time to do it, and then, we go off privately and I'll remind them.

I will never buy that saying please and thank you is wrong. Now, saying "I'm sorry is another subject." They are aware that they are saying that they are sorry in order to make the other person feel better, whether or not they really mean it. I'm not sure how reasonable this is, but it is what we do in our house. If you hurt someone, it makes them feel better to hear "I'm sorry" '

Lisa


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Maybe there are different definitions of "forcing it" then? IMO, prompting him once and expecting it to some degree is not forcing. I do that b/c modeling teaches him to say thank you in general, but does not really (imo) show respect in instances when he's given a gift (for example) and just ignores the giver. My son was saying thank you by 18 months, but it's not like he's been saying it consistently every since. To me, forcing is when he clearly is not comfortable saying it (he's barely four) and I stand over him insisting that he say it until he finally relents or is punished in some manner. I've seen that a lot. That is what I don't want to do. The reason I will happily say it for him is b/c I agree that it's too much to expect younger children to say it all the time. I agree with lisa that it's good to remind them later, though I don't have a problem with saying it once in front of the other person. Sometimes he chimes right in and does say it. Sometimes not. Then I do.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LifeIZBeautiful* 
I believe this is what is meant by the "making them". I don't think anyone would actually, physically make a child say something.
I have to say that telling them to say something, in place of your saying it on their behalf until they pick it up, is giving them social tools they just aren't ready to understand (In essence, training them to respond on cue). Once a child understands why you say thank you, they will naturally (most likely) follow your modeling and use it, too. This has been our experience.
I don't mean to judge your choice, but to clarify that this is what the OP may have meant anyway. Either way comes down to the parent's comfort level. We are comfortable with our kid's saying socially appropriate phrases once they understand them--not before. What other people think is not a consideration over our children.


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreggieUBA2C* 
I think everyone has hard social moments; in those moments, politeness often creates a distance where a heartfelt expression would bridge a gap.

That's the thing though, when I thank someone for something they have given or done for me, I _am_ heartfelt. And if my kid were to say something like "Wow! This is awesome!" and it was obviously an expression of gratitude, I'm not going to make them say "thank you" just for the purpose of doing it.

On a different note, I love learning about other cultures. The whole British English/American English thing is fascinating to me with words like "piss" that mean "mad" over here and "drunk' over there. So anyway, I would love to hear more and your culture and what is considered rude that would be considered polite in ours. Stuff like that fascinates me.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin* 
I am not one to conform to society, not at all. I am a pagan, bi-sexual, natural living hippie, living in the Bible belt. Conforming isn't something that I've ever done.

Me too! (except for living in the bible belt)

Quote:

I have absolutely no problem at all "forcing" my children to have manners. (snip) I am shocked that so many people have a problem with it!
I think what the problem may be is that it seems almost like shaming, depending on the way that it's done. So, you may be making your child use manners, but you may not be using manners with your child. kwim? (not you personally, you in general.)
Then there's also the discomfort in a situation where a child is being TOLD that he WILL say "thank you"...and everyone just kinda stands there, while mom is getting irritated, and child isn't saying it. I hate those situations (I've only ever been on the outside of one).
Definitely not saying that you do that! I'm just trying to explain some of the reasons that I can see that some people wouldn't think that "forced" manners were a good thing.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
Maybe there are different definitions of "forcing it" then? IMO, prompting him once and expecting it to some degree is not forcing.

I agree with that. But I do wonder if it's shaming in some way... It doesn't *seem* like my ds ever takes it that way. But I try to be careful about stuff like that. I don't want to snatch him from the middle of being SOOO happy about a new gift, and say something that makes him feel badly about how he responded. kwim?

Quote:

To me, forcing is when he clearly is not comfortable saying it (he's barely four) and I stand over him insisting that he say it until he finally relents or is punished in some manner.
That's what I would consider forcing.


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## littlehawksmom (May 22, 2005)

I find that my son needs lots of help with social interaction. If he doesn't feel like speaking, which is often the case, I will speak for him. After years of that, I find that if he knows what to say, (that is if I prompt him with a 'correct' statement) he can get through the interaction more easily and with less awkwardness for everyone. AFterward, or before, we talk about thes little social courtesies and how it feels be thankful, etc.
But for a while I didn't realize that it helped him to be taught and practice-even for things like hello and goodbye. Now that I have changed from just modelling those behaviors to helping him know what to say and when, he seems tobe a little more relaxed when interacting with people.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I agree about the potential for shaming. To be clear, I don't actualy _do_ that.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LifeIZBeautiful* 
I believe this is what is meant by the "making them". I don't think anyone would actually, physically make a child say something. I have to say that telling them to say something, in place of your saying it on their behalf until they pick it up, is giving them social tools they just aren't ready to understand (In essence, training them to respond on cue).

I think you missed the sarcasm in my post. I wasn't seriously thinking of physically forcing it!

For the record, what I do is say "Can you say thank you?" if our son doesn't do it unprompted. If he doesn't respond, I will simply look at the person and say "thank you" with an explanation of why "thank you, that looks really cool/thank you that was helpful.."

But the forcing issue. No amount of social discomfort/shuffling feet etc. would 'make' our son say thank you. When he's overwhelmed, he just shuts down. I cannot possibly 'make' him do it. So I don't. I say it once and let it go. But the expectation remains out there.

But I don't see prompting as shaming. It's reminding. Heck, dh has to remind me to turn off the oven. I remind dh to send Mother's Day cards to his Godmothers. (They care deeply about being recognized, dh tends to forget - I can smooth that social interaction for him.)

Quote:

Once a child understands why you say thank you, they will naturally (most likely) follow your modeling and use it, too. This has been our experience.
My response to this is what loraxc said more succinctly than I did:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
It seems like everyone always posts, "Well, we are just naturally so polite to each other that my child picked it up without my ever saying anything"...and I could be imagining it, but I always hear an undercurrent of "...and if your child didn't, you must be one rude family." I think kids differ in how quickly they pick up the social graces. My DD isn't that tuned into them either, and has required a fair bit of direct help.

My point is that right now, our son is so inwardly focused that we need to actively make him aware of other people. Will he have to learn new social norms if he moves/changes cultures? Definitely. But he can't learn NEW ones if he hasn't at least acquired the concept! He learned his shapes and his colors at 18 months without much direct teaching. Numbers make intuitive sense to him. Social skills, on the other hand, have required direct teaching. Frankly, at times I think it'd be easier to parent a child who got the social skills without direct teaching and had to be taught colors and numbers.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I don't think it is inherently shaming, but I think there is potential. That made me think b/c I have seen my son seem excited and then shut down when the attention is on to say thanks. I just try to remind in a friendly manner.

And I don't know how I missed this in the first reading:
_It seems like everyone always posts, "Well, we are just naturally so polite to each other that my child picked it up without my ever saying anything"...and I could be imagining it, but I always hear an undercurrent of "...and if your child didn't, you must be one rude family." I think kids differ in how quickly they pick up the social graces. My DD isn't that tuned into them either, and has required a fair bit of direct help._

Heh. That's what I was trying to work around. My son began saying it early (we are so polite!







) But at four, he certainly hasn't been consistently saying it for the 2.5 years he's been talking. Ya gotta walk the walk, but I don't think that's quite enough either. My son used to thank me for wiping his bottom. But the novelty wore off I guess. He's more likely now to thank me than other people, but I think learning to do the latter is important too.


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

I am much more likely to ask for a good attitude rather than arbitrarily requiring some meaningless word. In real life, rude people say please and thank you all the time, and polite people don't always say it.

In my experience most "manners" are highly misguided and are often twisted into a way to still treat someone in a disrespectful way while pretending to treat them with respect. Tone is much more important than words. I would rather that concept not be lost in the noise of "Magic words"

I guess I didn't even realize how often we say "thank you" until DS started saying it a lot at maybe 18m. If I can manage to never say "What do you say?" I will be happy.


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

I agree that the whole situation where the mom is standing over the child demanding a "thank you" and the child is shutting down is a bad situation. That definitely isn't something we do.

With my daughter (2) I usually say something to her like "Wow! That is so cool. Say thank you" (if she hasn't already said it) and she picks up on my enthusiam (as opposed to me trying to make her do something, which she definitely would balk at, lol. She is strong willed) and usually gives a big thank you and a smile.

With my son at that age, it was completely different. He was not at all outgoing and would just shut down when others spoke to him. So I would ask him to say "thank you" and then I would do it for him. No amount of trying to force him would have worked.

So I'm definitely not for forcing them if they are shy. It's more that I am shocked that good manners aren't important to others. I guess I am getting the image of a seven year old receiving a gift and him just acting non-chalant about it, no thank you, no nothing, and the parent just standing there being fine with it.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I also wanted to add that sometimes DD almost seems glad to be reminded. She may just be lost in the excitement of something at first, you know? A quiet, "Can you thank her for the X?" often elicits a bright smile and a genuine-sounding, sweet, "THANK you!"

FTR, I certainly do not force either--if I ask and she still doesn't say it (this has hardly ever happened), I say it for her and that's that.


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin* 
... I guess I am getting the image of a seven year old receiving a gift and him just acting non-chalant about it, no thank you, no nothing, and the parent just standing there being fine with it.

Could you share why you think that an unprompted 'thank you' is somehow synonomous with indifference? I mean, a child who is not forced, coerced or prompted to say thank you is still going to show his emotions! He'll be excited at a gift, smile when addressed or allowed to go first; it's not like this child is now some kind of automaton because he didn't say thank you or that those words are the key to invoking enthusiasm. Why do you have that image in your mind?

I can assure you that our unprompted dc are VERY enthusiastic and THAT is sometimes the reason for them not using words to express gratitude. Sometimes they hug or kiss instead. Sometimes they are completely overwhelmed with a gift and can only look up with a small smile and then down at the gift. Sometimes they don't say anything at all, and run off screeching with excitement. We have never known any adult who has taken offense to such genuine reactions, regardless of how manners-oriented they are.

I do always say thank you, regardless of our dc's reactions. I'm not saying it for them; I am saying it on my own behalf.

Please share your thoughts about this; I'm curious.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I know exactly what PreggieUBA2C is saying. My ds will often, for example, take a gift and it's totally obvious that he LOVES it, and that he's super excited to have gotten it.
To *ME* that's all I need to see. That stuff makes me happy. I'd much rather have someone tell me that they love the color of the sweater I bought them, than for them to say "thank you" and nothing else.

But when it's other people, I feel like I should prompt it. I'll have to be more aware of how I do it.

My ds often responds the same way *loraxc* said her dd does. He says thanks, still full of awe and in an excited voice. It doesn't seem to take any of the joy out of receiving a gift or anything like that. It's just part of it, it seems.

He does pick up on lots of other social things we do. He almost always tells people to "have a nice day!" just like I do. lol


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

We are another family that mostly models the behavior and from a very young age my son would pretty much always say "thank you".

I guess in a way I do promt him now, on occasion. I'll say, "Let's thank ________ for that!" and we'll both say "thanks".

I'd never force him to say it, but in 4.5 years, that's never been an issue.


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## KCMommy (Jun 24, 2006)

I mostly just model the thank-you's, but I have been asking 2 y/o DD to say please. I used to think I would never request this of my own children but I guess I just agree with PP's who say it will help them to navigate social situations. I am teaching this more for the benefit of DH and people outside the family.

DD pretty much directs my day during her waking hours, "Mommy, come!", "Dance, Mommy!", "Mommy, sit!", "Go away, Mommy!". Because of limited vocabulary, it can sound to others (including DH, who thinks I cater to her too much) like the orders you might give to a dog. But throw a "please" in there and it just changes the whole tone. She took to the "please's" very fast and even went through a few weeks where she would simply tack "please" on every time she said "Mommy". I'd hear, "Mommy Please" dozens of times a day, mostly just said like that, without an actual request ending the sentance. So I'd have to prompt, "Mommy, please......? What would you like, Kasey?"

As for "thank you," I only remind her if it's an outside person giving her something. And then I don't make a big deal - just say it for her if she isn't forthcoming with it. She is a bit confused on that still, anyway. Most of the time she will tell us "thank you" when _she_ gives _us_ something.


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## mango*mama (May 4, 2007)

I agree, it's really hard when someone sits there and is waiting for a thank you, and in my family some people need a lot of reassurance that their gift is a wanted one, to the point that it can be downright hilarious especially when the gift is totally useless IMO.

I also noticed that my parents started pushing my son to "SAY PLEASE" when talking to *me*. And I personally don't really care if he says "please" -- asking politely in a nice voice for a glass of water is enough social pleasantry for me, and if he follows it up with a "thank you" when I give it to him, I feel plenty positive about his manners. I would rather receive a genuine thank you, or a smile, than a forced please/thank you. I do have memories of the "what's the magic word?" garbage and I don't want to repeat that!

It is also really interesting to me to have observed different cultures' take on this. My husband's family members virtually never say "please" or "thank you," and often can be downright demanding to each other, including small children showing up and asking for water, and no one is even _remotely_ offended. Totally interesting!


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## brightonwoman (Mar 27, 2007)

I agree with modeling it--that'll be the single biggest help in teaching your child to be polite.
I have taught him "it's nice to say 'thank you' when..." and sometimes I have prompted with "oh, that was very nice, can you thank him/her?" but I try to avoid the cliche "what do you say dear?!"

DH and I had a similar debate over telling children to say tey are sorry...I want them to genuinely feel it if they're going to say it, but dh felt that it was not appropriate for the child to not say anything...so we've compromised with that ds does have to say sorry, but he has to say "I'm sorry for___" so that it's not just a glib phrase that turns into a 'get out of jail free card' so to speak...it may be repeated by rote, but at least since he's naming what he did, he's thinking about what it was, and it's helping him realize that it was not an appropriate choice...


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## Montessorimom8 (Mar 6, 2006)

Ds is 5.5 and most of the times he says please and thank you. Many times when he's asking for something and hasn't said please I will spread my hands like I am looking for a 'follow up' and he will check himself and say please. We always say please and thank you to him.

A lot of times we're at a party or something and ds doesn't want to leave and saying thank you can be tough. He doesn't say thank you because he's had such a good time, and ANY mom knows this and most of the ones I know are kind of 'flattered' by this, that they had such a good time they don't want to leave (or say thank you). I just say, "lets say thank you" and some times ds will and some times he won't, I don't sweat it as like I said his reluctance to leave tells the host/hostess that he had such a good time he doesn't want to end it! Eventually he'll get it, I don't stress it.

For presents I will 'remind' him if he hasn't said it...once I had my brother say to him (in my presence) "what do you say?" two seconds after he ripped the paper off, to me I was sort of insulted because that's my 'job'! Gosh let the kid first see what it is, enjoy his reaction and then let him thank you!

All in all I am very pleased with ds's manners. I think he is very age appropriate.


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## jayayenay (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BoysBoysBoys!* 
Whenever my kids don't say "please," I say, "what's the magic word?"

But, see, the word "please" doesn't have any special magical powers to me. You can still ask someone for something poliltely without the word please ("Hon, would you mind getting me a glass of water while you're up?), and someone can use the word reluctantly and still be rude about their request.

Additionally, many kids think that by saying the "magic word," they'll automatically *always* get what they want, and that is clearly not the case. ("Please will you give me your favorite toy?" "No." "But I saaaaaaaid pleeeeease!")


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## aywilkes (Sep 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aja-belly* 

i don't at all see the point in requiring it. i don't for a second believe that you can teach gratitude....

I definitely believe you can. Gratitude is more than a social norm for me and my family. My son has been around me during times when I've taken courses at church or just simply during a lesson where gratitude has been discussed. For example, give thanks for every blessing that you have as a universal principle. As a result, there are many times when he has reminded me that I should be thankful for something that happened good when I'm frustrated about something that is going wrong at the time. He pays attention to the little details. We used to keep thankful journals and share a few items with each other. Sharing with him that I am thankful that we shared a lot of laughs together on a Saturday afternoon teaches him that you don't need to be thankful for the big things only but the little details count too. As a result, his list of things to be thankful for includes "little things".


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## aywilkes (Sep 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreggieUBA2C* 
I can assure you that our unprompted dc are VERY enthusiastic and THAT is sometimes the reason for them not using words to express gratitude. Sometimes they hug or kiss instead. Sometimes they are completely overwhelmed with a gift and can only look up with a small smile and then down at the gift. Sometimes they don't say anything at all, and run off screeching with excitement. We have never known any adult who has taken offense to such genuine reactions, regardless of how manners-oriented they are.

.

I think anyone would appreciate this enthusiasm better than the words thank you b/c it is a show of gratitude. Maybe the quoted poster was thinking about someone who didn't show any gratitude through actions or words. I would imagine a kid who doesn't like to read and receives a book for a gift. One time my son received a gift from me he didn't like and it was pretty hurtful to me b/c he had such a bad attitude. I didn't make him say thank you but I did tell him about appreciating what you receive and being thankful that he received a gift. My sister was visiting and did the same thing then we left it at that.


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aywilkes* 
I definitely believe you can. Gratitude is more than a social norm for me and my family. My son has been around me during times when I've taken courses at church or just simply during a lesson where gratitude has been discussed. For example, give thanks for every blessing that you have as a universal principle. As a result, there are many times when he has reminded me that I should be thankful for something that happened good when I'm frustrated about something that is going wrong at the time. He pays attention to the little details. We used to keep thankful journals and share a few items with each other. Sharing with him that I am thankful that we shared a lot of laughs together on a Saturday afternoon teaches him that you don't need to be thankful for the big things only but the little details count too. As a result, his list of things to be thankful for includes "little things".

This is an interesting concept to me. I guess I wonder how you can be sure that this is his heart and not just academic. I'm not suggesting that it is academic with your son, at all, I just wonder how you know. The other issue to consider is that children have different personalities and for some, gratitude seems to be innate while with others it takes a long time or even trauma for them to realise there is something to be grateful for. I'm not sure that a thankful journal would change that. It might, I'm just not sure that requiring the appearance of gratitude would in fact engender it (it would at least initially have to be just the appearance, while later, it could- if your method and conclusion are accurate- transform into what you expressed about your son). Do you think it would?


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## aywilkes (Sep 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreggieUBA2C* 
This is an interesting concept to me. I guess I wonder how you can be sure that this is his heart and not just academic. I'm not suggesting that it is academic with your son, at all, I just wonder how you know. The other issue to consider is that children have different personalities and for some, gratitude seems to be innate while with others it takes a long time or even trauma for them to realise there is something to be grateful for. I'm not sure that a thankful journal would change that. It might, I'm just not sure that requiring the appearance of gratitude would in fact engender it (it would at least initially have to be just the appearance, while later, it could- if your method and conclusion are accurate- transform into what you expressed about your son). Do you think it would?

I feel like I know it isn't academic with my son b/c there are still times when he is certainly NOT grateful. (i.e. gets to go on a field trip for select students but then gets upset b/c he realizes that the kids who didn't go on the field trip got to watch t.v. instead at school). I do talk to him about it and say you can't have it all but it doesn't change his mind at the time. Or, he could just understand the gratitude concept intellectually for now and not really feel it. I think with the journal, he only wrote down stuff that he really did feel thankful for...I did try to push before and backed off for him to get more stuff down. Like I would say, you're not thankful for x? and then go on and on. I did realize that was counterproductive when the exercise is supposed to be so positive. Now that I've read your post, I am realizing that he is better at noticing what we have to be thankful for collectively or me personally as opposed to him only. I do believe that a transformation will take place but probably hasn't finished with my son yet. He's 9 - but I'm guessing by about 20 he should have it together. I don't know.. I'm rambling.







:


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## mom22girls (May 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BoysBoysBoys!* 
Whenever my kids don't say "please," I say, "what's the magic word?"

My mom did this with us, and I think it's okay as a reminder for older kids, but I just read something that said that it's confusing for younger kids because they think if they say please they'll get everything they want - and you get into the pleading, "pleasepleasepleaseplease" and the word loses its effectiveness for them.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShaggyDaddy* 
In my experience most "manners" are highly misguided and are often twisted into a way to still treat someone in a disrespectful way while pretending to treat them with respect. Tone is much more important than words. I would rather that concept not be lost in the noise of "Magic words"

Yes, people can use the cloak of manners to hide all kinds of bad behavior and manipulation.

Still, children need to learn social norms. It's a kind of information that they aren't going to learn anywhere but at home. There are some people who will only respond to please and thank you, and children will be at a social disadvantage if they don't know when and how to use these.

(Not to mention, when and how people usually use apologies!)

It's fine to express thanks or make polite requests without thanks and please, but it's easier for children to function if they know what most people around them consider good manners.

I think many children can pick up these behaviors without being taught them explicitly, but obviously not all. My son is great about please and thank you now, but I have to say that he went through a long period, especially as a toddler, of saying "thank you" and even "goodbye" after the audience for these pleasantries had left. (When, as you know, they are less effective!)

I don't think people should conflate manners and morals, or even saying thank you at the right time with the genuine expression of gratitude. These are just morally neutral social skills. No need for shame if the kid doesn't pick them up right away--not from the parents and not from the kid.


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## RainCoastMama (Oct 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain optimism* 
Yes, people can use the cloak of manners to hide all kinds of bad behavior and manipulation.

Still, children need to learn social norms. It's a kind of information that they aren't going to learn anywhere but at home. There are some people who will only respond to please and thank you, and children will be at a social disadvantage if they don't know when and how to use these.

(Not to mention, when and how people usually use apologies!)

It's fine to express thanks or make polite requests without thanks and please, but it's easier for children to function if they know what most people around them consider good manners.

I think many children can pick up these behaviors without being taught them explicitly, but obviously not all. My son is great about please and thank you now, but I have to say that he went through a long period, especially as a toddler, of saying "thank you" and even "goodbye" after the audience for these pleasantries had left. (When, as you know, they are less effective!)

I don't think people should conflate manners and morals, or even saying thank you at the right time with the genuine expression of gratitude. These are just morally neutral social skills. No need for shame if the kid doesn't pick them up right away--not from the parents and not from the kid.

I rarely use one of these smilies, but







: I followed along the conformist/non-conformist child thread and after some deliberation have decided that allowing a child social cues and tools in order to function in group settings in the society that, by and large, unless you're 'off the grid', they will live and work in, is not only ok, but responsible. (I'm NOT saying the corollary that people not teaching please/TY are irresponsible, so please don't flame me). I'll go out on a limb and say that I personally DO think it's rude when kids do not say p/ty, and think that it's an indication of indifferent or lax parenting, especially if a parent is present and not prompting. I grew up in a household with strong rules about social graces and expressing gratitude to people. I'm not at all afraid that my DDs will grow up to be 'people pleasers' by my enforcing societal standards and indicators, but I do think that reminding them about graciousness through expressions and deeds will encourage 'core' graciousness and hopefully dissuade self-absorption and unnecessary deservedness. I think it's how kids learn (picture a child in preschool tracing sand alphabet letters - means nothing at first, then takes on an important life of its own).


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I think children learn social customs from parents, and I would feel ds was at a disadvantage if he didn't understand how and when to use words like please and thank you. He's going to have people angry with him that he might not want angry with him if he isn't taught what to expect in certain situations.

I have always taught by example, rather than focusing just on ds saying the words. I usually said it for him as a way to prompt him to try.

It hasn't been difficult for ds to learn a "casual" way of interacting inside his own home, and a more "formal" way to interact on specific occasions.

I don't expect him to go around thanking me all day long, but he understands that if I do something extra special for him, it's nice to be thanked. If I'd like a "thank you" and he doesn't offer it, I might say out loud "gee, thanks mom!" and then he will laugh and say "Thank you!". In public, he understands it is polite to add "please" to a request, and add "thank you" when something is given or done for him by a waiter, employee, or other service person. He does that sometimes at home, but I wouldn't expect anyone to always add it 100% of the time in their own house. That would get really tedious after awhile.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
Well I'm firmly IN the tell my kid to say please and thank you camp. I do NOT get where this because a bad thing.







: It can be hard for shy kids and I wouldn't force it model it gently request it but I also have no issues in doing it for them. (saying thank you for them)









:

I think not prompting kids to say thank you is taking things a little too far.


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreggieUBA2C* 
Could you share why you think that an unprompted 'thank you' is somehow synonomous with indifference? I mean, a child who is not forced, coerced or prompted to say thank you is still going to show his emotions! He'll be excited at a gift, smile when addressed or allowed to go first; it's not like this child is now some kind of automaton because he didn't say thank you or that those words are the key to invoking enthusiasm. Why do you have that image in your mind?

I can assure you that our unprompted dc are VERY enthusiastic and THAT is sometimes the reason for them not using words to express gratitude. Sometimes they hug or kiss instead. Sometimes they are completely overwhelmed with a gift and can only look up with a small smile and then down at the gift. Sometimes they don't say anything at all, and run off screeching with excitement. We have never known any adult who has taken offense to such genuine reactions, regardless of how manners-oriented they are.

I do always say thank you, regardless of our dc's reactions. I'm not saying it for them; I am saying it on my own behalf.

Please share your thoughts about this; I'm curious.

Sorry, for some reason I didn't get the "new thread notification" on this. I wasn't ignoring you.









I guess I've just been around more rude children than polite ones. Maybe it has jaded me.







I just know that rude children really bother me and that manners are important to me.

I would love a hug and kiss from my son upon receiving a gift that he loved. He would usually add a "wow, thank you mama" in with it as well. But you're right, if he didn't he wouldn't be punished or anything.

I think that others come in to play with this as well. He isn't usually prompted to say "thank you" to me (although my daughter (2) is becuase I am trying to teach her "please" and "thank you") but with others, if he were to forget, he probably would be prompted.

I think of it as being similar to me teaching him to hold the door for those behind him instead of just letting it shut in their face or to say "excuse me" when he belches, or to turn his mouth into his sleeve when he sneezes or coughs, or to put his napkin in his lap instead of on the table. It isn't something that I put a lot of thought in to, it is just second nature to me and I want it to be for my children as well.

I think that people with manners go further in society. Someone can be well educated and have money but have atrocious manners versus someone with only a high school education who is living paycheck to paycheck but has excellent manners and the one with manners will probably be able to open more doors than the former.


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## lucky_mia (Mar 13, 2007)

My mother never forced us to say please and thank you. She thought modeling it was enough. Well guess what, it didn't really work for me. I really wish she had just forced me a little more because it is not "automatic" for me and I wish it were. Often I am very grateful and feel bad after the fact that I didn't expess it with a thank you. I feel like this has hurt me in some social situations.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

I teach mine to say it and model it too.

I will never agree that it is wrong to teach your children how to get along in life and in society, and to teach them manners.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I prompt and remind, but I do not force, withhold, or get into a standoff if he doesn't say it. I'llsay it for him if he doesn't say it to someone in public, and I will remind him at home if he doesn't say it. That goes for all societal pleasantries, not just TY.

Being polie and courteous (but not a doormat or people pleaser) is important to me. I don't think being one necessarily means you are the other.


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

I agree with the two pp. Manners are important to me and I try to model them for my DS. I also prompt and remind and don't feel badly about that at all.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
I prompt and remind, but I do not force, withhold, or get into a standoff if he doesn't say it. I'llsay it for him if he doesn't say it to someone in public, and I will remind him at home if he doesn't say it. That goes for all societal pleasantries, not just TY.

Being polie and courteous (but not a doormat or people pleaser) is important to me. I don't think being one necessarily means you are the other.

ITA. I think it is extremely rude to withold something from a child until they say please or even ask it in a more polite manner. I know it's frustrating when kids whine and demand, but can you imagine having to ask for everything all the time? I can see a child's POV.

I, also, have no problem reminding my kids to say thank you. When people have had this argument here before, I've heard people say that they don't want their children to say thank you unless they're genuinely grateful. Well, I personally think that's crap! My neighbor has Alzheimer's, and sometimes she gives the kids treats that are totally inedible and disgusting, like cookies that taste like hand lotion or ancient gummy bears. They aren't grateful for them, but I don't care, I don't think they should refrain from saying thank you. I definitely encourage it, though they will pretty easily even if they don't like what she's given them.


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## GSMama (Jul 26, 2006)

My DH and I have found that prompting our 20 mth old DD to tack "please" on to her shouted commands has turned out into a shouted command with please added to it...."Mo' pease" at top volume is most common at our house. It has lead me to think that the tone in which the request is made has a much greater impact than the words that phrase it.

Oh and as a funny aside to the "Please as Magic Word" conversations...
at my DD's first birthday we hired a magician to entertain the 40 odd guests that were at the party (I know, we won't be doing that again!) When the magician asked the kids present if they knew any magic words our well behaved neighbour who was 4 at the time shouted out "Please" while all the other kids were providing suggestions like "abracadabra"....


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