# If you regret being circumcised post here



## Mitchell756

For all of the male members of this site that are upset about having been circumcised, please tell us about why you are upset and how being circumcised has affected your life.

Also, for anyone here that has a partner or knows someone who is upset about being circumcised please ask them to share their experiences here.


----------



## hakunangovi

O.K., I will try to explain, and hope this is not TMI for most of you.

I grew up on a fairly isolated farm, and was blissfully unaware of my penile status until I was sent to a boy's boarding school at the age of 6. I can still remember the very first night when about 20 of us were herded into the communal shower room which contained a row of tubs for our evening bath. It was immediately obvious that many of the other boys had a penis that did not resemble my own. I was clearly missing something. This, in itself, was disturbing and I could not fathom why anyone would have done this to me. That started a lifelong curiosity as to what was circumcision and why was it done. I searched for information in every library I came across, but there was very little to be had. The first revelation was Rosemary Romberg's book "The painfull dilemma". I was fascinated by what I read, and it validated all my feelings of violation and the conviction that loosing my foreskin had been a very bad thing. I had always felt that I was missing something important, and I envied those boys who were whole. Coupled with the fact that I did not hit puberty until several years after all my peers I was flooded with feelings of inadequacy and shame. I felt so embarrassed that I did not dare have any interaction with girls and never had a girlfriend until 21. I believe that the lack of self confidence had a profound impact on the way I grew up. At least initialy.

When I finaly got acess to the internet I was amazed at the wealth of information that I encountered. I learned what a foreskin was, how it worked and how important it was to one's sex life. Now I really felt disappointed and angry that I had been subjected to this barbaric custom. By this time I was married and had two children. My life was pretty normal except for this cloud of shame and regret that hung over me.

For as long as I can remember I had always been terrified of doctors. Any time I had to have an injection I was overcome with this huge feeling of fear. As an adult, whenever I found myself in a clinic or a hospital, even just visiting, my blood pressure increases by up to 50% ( that is not an exageration - I went for a colonoscopy a couple of years ago and it was over 200 when they took it prior to the procedure). For years I wondered why this was. After all the medical community has always claimed that those circumcised as infants do not remember it. Then I learned that there are two types of memory: Explicit memory - that of what we learn throughout our life which starts at about age 3. Implicit memory which is active from when we are in our mother's womb. Everything that we are subjected to leaves a trace on our brain. So infants that are circumcised rarely remember the event in a conscious sense, but that does not mean that it had no effect on them.

I have learned that having a foreskin helps a man regulate himself during intercourse. This makes sense. Young circumcised males are plagued by premature ejaculation. I certainly was. Now that I am much older, the opposite is taking place and sometimes I suffer from retarded ejaculation and have difficulty getting there. I keep reading of people happily having sex into their 80's, mostly in non circumcising cultures. I have a couple of decades to go and yet already there is precious little feeling left. I feel robbed. I'm not sure that any circumcised man truly has an orgasm (as opposed to just ejaculation). Sure it feels good, but having observed the rapture enjoyed by my partners where their whole body is taken over by the experience, I know that I have been missing out all my life.

I have probably rambled on long enough, so in a nutshell circumcision has cost me a full sex life, confidence, a feeling of being whole. It has caused regret, anger, shame and embarrassment. I absolutely hate that it was ever invented, and that is why I frequent forums such as this: To try and help people become educated, to make the decision to keep their sons whole and to dispell the myriad of myths propagated by an often unethical and ignorant medical community. If you got this far - Thank you for listening!!


----------



## Unhappyvictim

I've always hated being circumcised. I have always disliked the discomfort of the most sensitive part of my body rubbing against clothes. I have always hated the lousy sex and unfulfilled feeling that circumcision causes, the broken relationships, the lost opportunities, the constant resentment for a wrong that was committed against my body. And I have always hated my parents for having me circumcised.

When did I first realize that my parents had made a tragic mistake by having me circumcised? I guess it was when I woke up in the hospital in a pool of blood. I called a nurse, and I will never forget the look on her face when she saw the blood-soaked sheet around my penis -- or what was left of it anyway.

Ironically, I escaped the knife at birth. But most Baby Boomers were born at the peak of circumcision madness (sounds like a B horror movie, doesn't it?) Everyone was doing it, and it was free because most everyone had insurance that covered it by then, Dr. Spock was recommending it strongly in his baby books, the U.S. government's public health agencies were busy promoting it, doctors were manufacturing health reasons to do it, and everyone was happy. Because the truth about circumcision was suppressed.

Most children who were born in this era had fathers who were intact, because the fathers had been born in the 1920s and 1930s, when few American boys were circumcised. My father was intact because he was born in a small rural town that had only one doctor, and the doctor was 100% totally opposed to circumcision. He used to say that circumcision was foolishness, including in a column he wrote for the weekly paper in a nearby town. Nobody could accuse the guy of waffling on the subject.

But then things changed.

In my case, I escaped the knife at birth because my mom's doctor was Catholic, didn't believe in circumcision, and he refused to circumcise me. So did my pediatrician later on. So my mother's obsession to have me circumcised got put on hold until I was 14 years old, and she knew she was running out of time to have it done, and she found a quack to do it. My mother was not the sort of person who could leave well enough alone.

I was against the operation, but I wasn't asked for my opinion, and my father just went along with it.

I think, in most cases, it's the mother who makes the decision to circumcise, and the father just goes along -- even if he's intact and knows better. The mother's got Dr. Spock on her side. Who's the father got?

A few years later, Dr. Spock changed his mind about circumcision, and abruptly did an about face. But by then it was too late for a lot of us.

Circumcision is big business in the U.S. A couple of billion dollars a year, most of it pure profit. And now there are billions more to be made by selling baby foreskins to the big pharmaceutical giants to resell to the cosmetics and biogenetic trades. If you think circumcision is going to go away in the U.S. any time soon, think again. There's too much money at stake. This is a country where money talks, and you know what walks.

Meanwhile, baby boys born in the U.S. are the last group in the country to be denied their Civil Rights. Baby boys have their Human Rights violated when they are only a day or two old, and have the most sensitive part of their body torn off in a barbaric ritual that can't be justified. A country that takes advantage of defenseless babies in this senseless blood ritual is a country that needs to take another look at its dark soul.


----------



## APvegmama

My husband regrets it and I do, too. The reasons are many, but mostly sexual. Since we have both researched it extensively, we realize that we are missing out on a sexual experience as nature intended it. That alone, it heartbreaking.


----------



## philomom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *APvegmama*
> 
> My husband regrets it and I do, too. The reasons are many, but mostly sexual. Since we have both researched it extensively, we realize that we are missing out on a sexual experience as nature intended it. That alone, it heartbreaking.


Yep, same with us. I'm so proud my hubby had the guts to allow his child to remain intact!


----------



## LGriffiths

It's clear to me that ignorance grants cover to the perpetrators of wrong. Educated and informed people are less likely to be victimized. So when I came to my senses as a young male that my circumcision in 1946 was never justified, I had an epiphany and vowed to do all I could to get that repugnant practice ended. Why should the defenseless and helpless among us be subjected to have a section of his penis cut off, excised and destroyed? The pretexts for it are absurd. It is preposterous that a civilized people would have consented to blanket pseudo-medicine. That there are millions of dollars to be made, that misinformed parents are so duped and that the medical industry doesn't care is outrageous. What about the circumcised males who resent that they were cut? Shouldn't that be the alert to stop this madness and leave it up to self-determination. I take great pride that my son and grandsons were left intact. This male never had an issue of thinking, "Well, I'm OK, so circumcision has to be OK." That is tripe. Males could end circumision today if they just recognized the issue of human rights and wholeness. Foreskins are complex, sophisticated, protective, mechanical, nurturing, moist and full of nerve. Shame on anyone -- parent or medical person -- who would destroy such a delicate structure of males' precious sexuality.


----------



## regencybrougham

I hate being circumcised. My sons are not. As I matured I always felt like I could never be a man.

Sex was as painful as it was pleasurable, until after few months of restoration, the skin has expanded enough to prevent friction injuries to myself and my wife. I have very little pleasurable sensation. I feel movement and pressure but little pleasure. Finishing inside my wife can be difficult. Oral sex does almost nothing for me.

I will restore until I have a "foreskin". Only death could stop me.


----------



## Artist65

Ego and ignorance have allowed MY healthy and natural body tissue to be amputated! I am angered and saddened because not only will I NEVER experience natural sex in my life time, the remaining penile sensation has greatly deminished! My frenulum was removed when I was circumcised as an infant which furthered loss of sexual pleasure even more! There is a "nasty" circumcision scar that sometimes inflicts a burning or stabbing pain around the shaft! Iv'e been criticized for taking too long to climax during sex. I am now to the point that sex is so frustrating to me that I more often just give up during sex, never reaching climax. Incidently, as a result of my infant circumcision, a meatal stenosis developed inflicting even more pain on what should have been the most pleasurable zone on my body.


----------



## matchrestore

I was circumcised as an infant. I'm not sure of the exact reasoning for me being circumcised, but I was born right at the peak of circumcision rates in the United States, and in the Upper Midwest, where it was most common. I am unhappy with the decision to have me circumcised. If I have a son, I will not have him circumcised, because it takes away his right to bodily integrity.

When I first learned about circumcision, it was from a friend who wasn't circumcised at birth because of other health complications. He wanted to be circumcised because he felt different, but it spurred my interest in the topic. Being a 15 year old kid with monitored dial-up internet, my research was limited to encyclopedias and anatomy textbooks found in my house. I found out that my painful erections were due to being cut too tightly. I was able to find information on the history of routine infant circumcision in the United States, and how it was pushed by Dr. Kellogg to discourage masturbation, my opinion on the procedure immediately turned negative. I showed that information to my friend, and he decided to not get circumcised. I didn't realize why circumcision would "discourage" masturbation, but after a camping trip with that friend, and witnessing him masturbate, I not only was against circumcision, but I was instantly jealous of men that hadn't been circumcised.

Fast forward a few years to when I figured out ways around my parents following my internet history, I researched more and more and became more and more upset. I found out about foreskin restoration and decided to give it a try. The two year timeline and the lack of privacy living at home provided made it difficult and I eventually stopped restoring until college. My freshman roommate had an upperclassman girlfriend, which meant I pretty much had the room to myself. I started restoring again, and started to see progress, but I haven't been religious about it, and it has taken me way more than two years.

There is no way for me to know exactly what I am missing. Since starting restoration, sensitivity has definitely increased because the keratinization that inevitably occurs on the glans of a circumcised penis is reversing. The painful erections went away almost immediately.

If I have a boy, he will definitely not be circumcised. I don't go into this much detail, but when one of my friends is expecting I do encourage them to leave their son intact. Most of the time they are opposed at first, but it at least lets them know that it is an option and they end up doing research. Almost all have thanked me for bringing it up later on.


----------



## QueenOfTheMeadow

In order for this thread to remain open, I need to ask that many of you edit your posts. Per the MDC guidelines:

Quote:


> While circumcision has sexual impact, any discussion of a sexual concern needs to remain clinical in nature, focused on the actual impact of circumcision and in keeping with the MDC User Agreement:
> 
> Quote:
> 
> Do not post profane or sexually explicit text. Discussions of a sexual nature should be within the realm of topics inherent to Mothering discussions such as sex after delivery, sex and the family bed, etc.
> 
> Please avoid slang terms for anatomy. Posts containing graphic sexual discussion or that link to or reference sexually explicit material are inappropriate for the forum and will be removed. Foreskin restoration discussion is beyond the current scope of this forum, however, we encourage those interested to check the Web Resource Thread for further information and helpful sites devoted to this topic.


Many of these posts leave the realm of clinical and have jumped the line to sexually explicit. I will be removing many of these posts and PMing members so they can edit their posts and return them to the thread within the guidelines.


----------



## Dreamer Fla

Quote:


> "Discussions of a sexual nature should be within the realm of topics inherent to Mothering discussions such as sex after delivery, sex and the family bed"


Circumcision affects the sexual life of the adult that your son will become. Circumcision affects how your son lives his sexuality. Which is why the discussion of sexuality and the effects of circumcision is relevant. Mothers have to know that if they alter the genitals of their babies, they are altering the sexual life of their adult sons.

Yes perhaps we went a bit explicit. But we were not writing erotica or porn. We are children of parents who circumcised for one reason or another, and this has affected our sexuality. Having my post removed feels like a slap after an injury.

It's like, how can I tell why I'm upset without being able to tell why I'm upset, see the contradiction there? I edited my text. I don't describe sexual acts now. But sex is inherent to the conversation by the very nature of what circumcision did to us.

Quote:


> any discussion of a sexual concern needs to remain clinical in nature


I agree and I hope that's how my edited post is perceived.

Quote:


> Foreskin restoration discussion is beyond the current scope of this forum


That's unfortunate because we can talk of the headache (as long as we don't say where it hurts or how it hurts) but we can't talk of the aspirin. But okay.

Quote:


> Many of these posts leave the realm of clinical and have jumped the line to sexually explicit.


I hope my edited version won't have that issue. If it does, let me know please.


----------



## Dreamer Fla

I hope this new version of my post is not as sexually explicit. It is "focused on the actual impact" --- the ACTUAL impact of circumcision is a negative effect on sexuality for both male and female. How can we explain that without saying the truth? We were not writing erotica, we were talking about the real damage that circumcision has made and how it has affected our sexual life as adults. But if there are complains please let me know and I will remove my comment. I do mention sex but not specific acts. It's just impossible to talk about the subject of surgical alteration of a sexual organ and its effects without talking about sex - and moms need to know that.

Not being a home born American I was not circumcised at birth. However, when I was 5 or 6 years old (not absolutely sure about the age), the pediatrician diagnosed me with phimosis. I remember being in (what I now assume was) the operation room, and suddenly something from what's going on caught my attention and I remember myself asking "why are you going to cut off my pee pee (penis - but that's how I said it since I was 5 years old)?"

The doctor said it wasn't that. He said I had phimosis (I remember that word since that time) and he was going to cut a piece of skin. He said if he didn't do it he would have to put a needle on my penis for me to be able to urinate. (Now, I don't remember having problems urinating - which doesn't mean that I didn't have them, but I don't remember it).

I said: "I don't care, leave it like that, I like it like that". He must have repeated the same thing. I knew there was no arguing that would help me, so I tried to run. I remember getting off from the bed/table and trying to run, and I remember (a female nurse?) grabbing me from behind.

I don't remember more.

This year, as I tried to go back through this memory, this fact really surprised me, that I could remember the conversation, that I could remember the word phimosis, but I couldn't remember the procedure. My initial thought was that someone held me and covered my eyes. I've since learned that I was sedated.

So this sounds like legitimate, therapeutic use of circumcision, right?

No, it wasn't.

At that age, the foreskin is not supposed to be retractable, not necessarily. So phimosis would have been a wrong diagnosis. I don't doubt that I might have been experiencing some discomfort, it would be normal at that age especially if the synecchia (or balanopreputial membrane - the membrane that holds the glans and the foreskin together and prevents retraction) is starting to separate. The doctor might have thought it was a legitimate reason. I don't feel it was, knowing what I have learned so far.

My second feeling as I remember this, is that the doctor should have called my parents. He should have tell them that I was anxious to the treatment. Heck, he should have considered if there were any alternatives to the treatment. To the best of my knowledge none of those things happened. I was sedated and then cut.

I know that it affected my self esteem. I really didn't think much of it, but it was always like "that secret" in the back of my mind.

One day my wife told me: "do you realize that this is a scar", pointing to the place where my foreskin was cut. I was 27 and I had never realized that I had a scar.

When my son was born, I didn't have to face the decision of circumcising or not. In my country, hospitals won't ask if you want your baby circumcised. If you were to ask a doctor to circumcise your baby, they would ask you if there was anything wrong, if there was any health problem. It's just not a decision, not anymore than cutting the pinky of the left hand or the earlobe. But I did know that I wished my baby wouldn't ever need it. To this day I can report I have a healthy teenager who didn't have to go through this.

I moved to the U.S. and I was surprised when I learned that most American babies are circumcised shortly after birth. A friend got married, had 2 children, and one time that he came to visit me, he changed the diaper of the youngest one and I noticed that he was circumcised. I wondered if he had phimosis or something similar at that young age, or why was he circumcised.

A few years later another friend had another baby. He announced he was taking a day off to circumcise his baby. I asked him why. All I knew back then was that for me, circumcision meant sadness, meant sense of loss, so why would someone circumcise a perfectly healthy baby was beyond my understanding. He said it was what he knew, it was the way he grew up. I don't remember if he said it was cleaner, he might, but I remember that he didn't go into more health reasons. I felt sad for the baby but I didn't say more because I didn't know more at the time.

One day reading a blog on sexuality I learned how "medical" circumcision started in the United States due to the Victorian morality and wanting to "cure masturbation". I was upset by the whole idea. That doctor J. H. Kellogg sounded like a pure sadists, a religious fanatic, and most likely a pedophile who found pleasure in the pain and fear he inflicted to children by cutting their foreskins with no anesthesia as punishment and to disrupt the habit of self-pollution. This made me extremely angry, so I kept reading.

I've learned how circumcision changes the structure of the penis - as it removes the moving skin and a high concentration of nerve endings (Meissner's corpuscles) that are meant to feel pleasure.

I actually had a happy sexual life. Not too intense (I was shy and introverted with somewhat low self esteem) but what I did I enjoyed.

And this is where the revelations hit hard.

Would I have enjoyed my sexuality more? Would I have had better self esteem if I didn't go through the experience of circumcision?

I won't be able to tell you how to avoid getting into restoration, but I learned that circumcision causes these damages:

* Keratinization of the glans - basically becomes callous due to the lack of protection.

* Removes the moving skin from the penis. Having that moving skin helps intercourse for both male and female. In absence of this skin this is why hand lotions and lubes are so popular.

* Removal of Meissner's corpuscles which feel pleasure - including sensations that a circumcised man will never be able to experience.

* The glans and the foreskin are meant to interact through circular pressure. There's a lot of information in the book "What the doctor may not tell you about circumcision"

If these differences are so notorious, how come more men are not protesting? Well, simply THEY DON'T KNOW IT. We don't really sit down and compare the mechanics of sex and our experiences. So how are we supposed to figure out that other men's sexual experiences are different from ours?

The mechanics of sex, and the perception of sex, are permanently altered by circumcision. Physical sensations and possible sexual experiences are removed from our possibilities. When you understand this, when you really really really understand this, then there is no denying that non-therapeutic circumcision is a mutilation.

I've remembered my own experience, and I can see now how circumcision affected what I was able to feel. I enjoyed sex of course. But I know that the mechanics were damaged and I could have felt different sensations if I had not been subjected to this operation.

I'm restoring my foreskin yet I know that I will never have a ridged band, I will never have those Meissner's corpuscles. But hey, I'll take what I can.

And I will use my energies to educate people about the functions of the foreskin and about the ethical issues of performing an amputation as "preventive" medicine in a person who is not sick at all, who is not at an immediate risk of becoming gravely sick, and who cannot provide consent - with the secondary but guaranteed effect of altering that person's perception of sexuality before he is even aware of his own body.

When you circumcise a baby, you circumcise the man that he will become.

You can't force an adult man to get circumcised. But when you do it to a baby, 18 years later you still have the same result: an adult man who was circumcised without his consent. The fact that you signed the consent form makes very little difference for that man.

I'll never be upset at my parents. They did what they thought they had to do. They trusted the doctor. It's not like those years ago there was a Google.

If you circumcised your baby, please help him go through life. They need your support. Don't just assume they will be okay. For one, they need to know that they were circumcised (I've learned of teens and adults who learned it later on in the streets or school or gym and were very angry about it), and they need to know that they can enjoy life and sexuality. But also let them know that you now know more, and you think that circumcision is not necessary. Let them know that if you knew what you now know, you would have not had them circumcised. Do it, for the sake of your grandchildren. Be careful not to hurt your son's self esteem, but also think of sparing your grandsons from an unnecessary procedure.

A little of awareness, that's all it takes.


----------



## QueenOfTheMeadow

Hi Dreamer Fla. Did you recieve my PM? It should have had the copy of your original text in it. If you haven't let me know and I'll resend it. I understand your frustration about how in detail you are allowed to go into on MDC. If you read the introduction and the forum guidelines, I hope you will have a better idea of why these are in place. If you are still uncomfortable with those guidelines, myself or one of the administrators would be happy to discuss it with you via PM.

I truly appreciate how passionate you are about intactivism and spreading the word. It's a very important message, and I thank goodness I was educated before I had my 3 boys. Keep up the good work!


----------



## Dreamer Fla

Hi! I did receive your PM and I appreciate that it included the original text  Thank you.

I hope my edited version is fine. If not, please let me know and I'll make any needed changes.


----------



## Jeff Graw

When they talk about the risks of circumcision, they mean what happens before the baby leaves the hospital. Sometimes the real consequences are not seen until years later. As we age, we lose sensitivity. The foreskin contains up to 80% (McGrath) of the nerves in a man's penis. Losing all those nerves has consequences. This has been known and published in Medical journals for years.

In 1997, the Journal of the American Medical Association wrote this: NHSLS data indicate that circumcised men engage in a somewhat more elaborated set of sexual practices than do men who are not circumcised.

I speak from personal experience in explaining why this is true. When too much sensitivity is lost, natural intimacy becomes harder or even impossible. This has consequences not only for the man, but for his partner as well.

The most shocking part of this story is that the media blitz of circumcision benefits cannot really be substantiated when we look at statistics from Europe. The EU has a lower rate of many of the claimed problems. And when we investigate further, we see an growing industry using foreskin cells supplied by un-consenting infants. They deserve better.


----------



## sejhammer

I want to say that I appreciate the detail that members have been going into. I think it helps others understand the implications of circumcision in a more personal way. My son is intact but my husband was circumcised at birth. He's cut too tightly and has pain every single time we have intimacy. We're also both really freaked out by abrasions on his glans and we're considering restoration. Hearing from men who feel the way he does about the circumcision and who have taken the step to restore really motivates him to consider it himself.

Moving on. I am a female-to-male transgender man. I went to school and work as Sean (not Sarah). In order to help my relationship with my husband, I decided to stop injecting testosterone two years ago (which also helped me prepare my body for pregnancy). I haven't restarted it because I'm nursing our son and the testosterone would knock out my supply immediately (even though the prolactin would still be there for a while). Now, the point of mentioning all this is that I'm someone who has spent most of his life wanting more than anything to have normal functioning male genitalia. Aside from this awesome childbirth thing, I've always felt that I was born with the wrong kind of body. Eventually, my doctors put me on testosterone and I was even on the path to get mastectomy.

But no matter how much I'd love for my body to finally be "right," I'll never get bottom surgery. The best surgery for leaving tissue intact, metoidioplasty, essentially involves a circumcision. The clitoris naturally enlarges from the testosterone treatments (and it's fast, like you'll see most of your growth from your very first week of treatment, and it's irreversible even if you stop injecting), and the hood of the clitoris is cut so that it can hang down lower and look like a fuller penis. Then you can get a surgery to reroute the urethra through it so you can void while standing. You can get testicular implants in a scrotum formed from the labia (which is homologous tissue, as well)--that usually also involves a vaginectomy to reduce cancer risks.

I used to consider myself transsexual because I used to want to surgically alter my body to make it right. I'd go for any of those surgeries except the metoidioplasty--the most important one. Once I did the research, I had to relabel myself as just generally transgender, because even though I feel like a male despite having a female body, the only medical treatments available would leave the most sensitive part of my body constantly exposed. It would completely change my sexual experience for the worse. It's sadly ironic because it's a procedure that I want so that I can be whole, but I'd have to have a part of me cut away to do it.

I hope this isn't too much detail, but I wanted to be clear in explaining how physically, a female person has the ability to feel what it's like to be an intact male. It's direct clitoral stimulation versus what you'd feel if you pulled the hood back first. Imagine never being able to tone it down. It's like an exposed nerve. The difference between my experience and that of so many American men is that I get to decide what I want for myself--infants who have been circumcised didn't. And as much as I want to just be an anatomically normal guy, I can't without sacrificing too much.


----------



## Brother K

An Open Letter to the Intactivist Community

When I first started lobbying against circumcision in California in 1975, I became accustomed to the odd looks & condescension from some people; others, if not most, wholeheartedly endorsed my approach, and encouraged me to speak out more vigorously. In 1980 I completed my manuscript, "The Circumcision Instinct," an attempt to shed light on this ancient & strange custom. That same year I became convinced that direct action in the streets would be necessary to force the issue into the public consciousness (and conscience), so my friend, Carole Babyak, and I formed Cititzens Against Ritual Violence (CARV), a protest group dedicated to exposing the deceit & misinformation behind the circumcision campaign in the United States.

We were somewhat successful in that initial endeavor. The Associated Press (AP) and United Press International (UPI) both sent out articles nationwide over their wire services, and newspapers across the nation, including many in California, covered CARV's activities. Many people reported to me that they also saw the television coverage on our picket in the Sacramento & San Francisco markets, as well as ABC nightly news, and many radio stations as well.

We were pleased to receive many letters from a widespread community across the United States, but perhaps most significant for the movement, we were gratified that Dr. Dean Edell, Marilyn Milos, Rosemary Romberg, Jeff Wood, and John Erickson (to name only a few) took a deep interest in our activities, and communicated their firm support in their correspondence with us.

My personal journey took on urgency in 1985, when I realized that I would always be circumcised unless I uncircumcised myself. Many men have other ways of accomplishing that task; in my case, I viewed circumcision as a spiritual mark on my body--the curse of an angry & ancient God--and I saw no way to uncircumcise myself except to renounce the birthname that was associated with that deity. I changed my name to Brother K, keeping a vestigial remnant of my birth name for some reason, which later became clear to me -- K stands for Kind.

Now that the AAP has stepped up their war against boys, I am returning in full battle gear for the fight. The circumcisers will not give up their sharp weapons willingly, and they have numerous ways to spread their propaganda among the American public. You can count on me to fight to my last breath to stop this barbaric practice against our youth.

Kind regards,
Brother K


----------



## argot

I am gay. My boyfriend of 10 years is intact. It was only from seeing his penis that I ever had any idea of what I'm missing. I have a lot of difficulty reaching orgasm. Usually I only can do so from my own manual efforts. It's really depressing that I'm not able to appreciate sex as much as nature intended. And worse than that, it even makes me less capable of fulfilling my partner. That's even more depressing. It's like I feel sex through a thick glove, I have so little sensitivity. Intact men do not have this problem. Men who don't see the harm are happily ignorant or in denial, it is harmful.


----------



## Greg B

Lets see, regret being circumcised? Regret that the most important part of my anatomy for sexual function and feeling was removed for no good reason? Regret that I had to suffer through the trauma of unbearable pain on the order of waterboarding or worse, when I couldn't deal with it mentally as an infant? Regret that my (and my partner's) sexual experience was a lukewarm shadow of what it could have been?

Oh yes, big time.

But I had no idea. And if I had never restored, I would still not know. But now I do know a lot of what I was robbed of. And it was a lot.

Yes, I regret it. If I could go back in time and prevent it, I would. And I am restoring to get back as much as I can. And now I know the real, unstated reason, why they do it to infants. That way the man has no way to know what he lost.

Regards


----------



## voicelessone

I'm only 28, and already my glans is almost completely numb. If I touch it with my finger I feel sensation only in the fingertip. When I see porn where the woman is gently touching the head of the penis, and moving the foreskin up and down over it, I know what I have lost. The loss itself is hard to deal with, but to hear people in the circumcision "debate" claiming that it causes no loss in sexual function, that it is just a snip of a useless piece of skin, is like getting kicked in the ribs. Knowing that millions of boys are still being circumcised and there is no law to protect them makes it impossible to heal and move on.

The sexual aspect is only one part of it. Another is seeing video of a baby strapped down by his wrists and ankles, screaming until he can barely breathe, while his perfectly healthy penis is gushing blood from surgical wounds. This act was done to me. There are people who tell me that because I cannot remember it, it is perfectly all right. I feel violated physically and sexually, and betrayed.

The only thing that makes me feel better about any of this is to see people choosing not to circumcise. When I see mothers expressing their regret I grieve with them and feel less alone with my pain. All of this is so easily preventable... I wish I could be more eloquent and persuasive but it is so hard for a man to talk about another violating his manhood. There is a lot of shame and self reproach, even though I know there was nothing I could do to defend myself. I still feel like less of a man.


----------



## bugmenot

This thread is all kinds of horrifying and sad. It's like watching someone get raped and realizing you can't do anything about it...ok, not really, but it's painful to be able to read this.

But, at the same time, it's great. It's great to know that people who were circumcised without their consent are doing something about it. Some are restoring. Even if a circumcised-but-regrets-it man will never have kids, or just had daughters and no sons, the ball is still rolling in the right direction.

It's the beginning of an avalanche. It's small right now, but it's growing larger by the day.

This thread is proof that the lies thought up by the doctors "he won't remember it" or "it's painless" or whatever they're saying is just that. LIes.

Keep fighting the good fight, everyone. Even if you're done having kids, you just had daughters, or even if your sons are circumcised and you realized you didn't know better at the time, you're still very much in the fight.


----------



## Blueberry159

I am the wife of a circumcised man and it has impacting me negatively. After years of marriage we are realizing that his lack of foreskin is causing me pain during sex. I always thought the chaffed, burning and raw pain that I feel for several days after sex was my fault. I tried _everything_ to make sex more comfortable, but nothing significantly helped. Now, we are realizing that circumcision is the cause. I am *so angry* over what circumcision has taken from our marriage! I am so upset that my husband and I cannot enjoy each other the way we are meant to! His parents made this decision for him, but I do not feel it should have been their choice. Now my husband and I have to live with the consequences of that decision for the rest of our married life. Male circumcision impacts women, too.


----------



## DJay

Foreskin restoration is an option that many men in this situation have found helpful. It takes some time, but if the problem is that bad, you can do something about it. I was cut very tightly as a baby. Today my doctor thinks I'm intact. Wife really likes the difference from when we first married. Good for both of us.


----------



## Blueberry159

That's wonderful news! My husband began restoration recently. I hope we see the benefits soon.


----------



## Islay

I can best respond to this thread by offering a link to an article on the The Whole Network which I was asked to submit after responding to another contributor's story.

Voicelessone, I understand your sense of loss for the foreskin you were born with.

http://www.thewholenetwork.org/14/post/2011/02/a-childs-cry.html

Christopher


----------



## hakunangovi

I have just come back to this thread, and read all of it. I can see the common thread of shame, violation, anger and regret in the posts from the men. It makes me sad to realise that there are millions and millions of us in that same stinking boat, most of whom are silent in their own world of torment. I see the sadness in the posts from women who have figured out why their sex life is unfulfilling, and who show great empathy toward circumcised men. Thank you. I am most grateful for forums such as this, where we can participate with others of a like mind. It feels a bit like an extended family!

One thing that I did not mention in my original post is how I feel toward my parents: I have never hated them for what they did to me. I realise that they thought they were doing the best thing for me and my brothers. They were the unwitting victims of bad information. They had no access to an internet, or even libraries. They had no option than to believe what they were told. I will say that I wish they had thought about circumcision more objectively. Did they not consider that nature does not make mistakes? Did they not consider that cutting off a part of a baby's genitalia is bizarre? After all, there were plenty of intact boys in our society.


----------



## Dave Saving

I'm a man that was circumcised as a baby and I really wish I wasn't. I was denied my choice to keep a functional, healthy, erotogenic body part.

ALL forms of female genital cutting - _equal to or less invasive then male circumcision_ - are illegal for any reason, including religion. Yet, a parent can remove a baby boy's foreskin for _any_ reason including, "just because" and "I think it looks better". This doesn't make sense. This isn't equal rights under the law but a violation of the 14th Amendment's "Equal Protection Clause", the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights", adopted by the United Nations and the "Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms".


----------



## Unhappyvictim

The legislative branch of the U.S. government outlawed female cirumcision in 1997. But there is a reason you can not look to the U.S. government to similarly outlaw the circumcision of baby boys. It's because circumcising baby boys is official U.S. government policy: your executive branch at work for you (against you, actually). Beginning around 1950, the U.S. Public Health Service began two big public health crusades aimed at children: circumcision of baby boys, and water fluoridation. As recently as 2009, the CDC, another part of the U.S. government's public health bureaucracy, tried to put the "Universal Circumcision" of baby boys into effect, but was forced to backtrack: under this plan, all boys born in the U.S. and its posessions would have been required to be circumcised, whether the parents requested it or not. Meanwhile, stimulus funds were used to promote circumcision in Africa. The National Institutes of Health and other public health agencies, alarmed by falling U.S. circumcision rates, have been trying desperately to manufacture new justifications for circumcising newborn baby boys. They have been bankrolling "studies" by pro-circumcision researchers in Africa to demonstrate that circumcision prevents AIDS. Why Africa? Because of the 600,000+ men who died of AIDS in the U.S., nearly all of them had been circumcised. What makes Mothering so special? Because instead of rubber-stamping the press releases of self-serving government agencies and professional trade associations like the AAP, Mothering presents the common sense side of the issue, and trusts you to draw your own conclusions.


----------



## nocirc75

I have been trying to put together my thoughts and feelings for days about this issue. Like many men I was circumcised as an infant and as an adult I'm none too happy about my parents decision. I've thought about asking them why they made such a decision, but I realize it would do no good, won't bring back my foreskin and likely make for an uncomfortable discussion with both of my parents. I feel robbed of a fully functioning penis as nature designed, not as society wished it to be.

What am I doing at this point to help myself and others you may wonder? For myself, I'm restoring my foreskin- it's a long process and quite irritating that I have to go through this due to the momentary slice of the doctors knife 37 years ago. I'm trying to get involved and speak to others about the importance of being intact, but I'm meeting a lot of resistance within my group of friends. No one cares to listen and people are defensive and shut down. I don't believe my approach to be offensive or argumentative, so it seems that the conservative social constructs of the USA's feelings on sex are a huge impediment to any meaningful discussion.

I'm happy to say that I spoke with a close friend of mine who was expecting a boy and while it was a bit awkward broaching the subject of what him and his girlfriend were going to do regarding circumcision it was a quick and easy discussion because they had already educated themselves on the subject!

I hope that we as a society, as a culture, can move past this terrible practice of Routine Infant Circumcision (RIC) and leave future baby boys intact as nature intended. If I ever have a son I will ensure that he is left intact and not allow such a violent act of circumcision be visited upon him.


----------



## intactivist2

Here is my rant that (rightly or wrongly) I have been posting to every mothering forum I can sign up to for free...

You can skip it if you want, it's more of the same (mum thought she was doing the right thing based on doctors information) with a ton of links.

Most importantly: Thank you for existing (forum) and opening this discussion. Too many of the mothering forums I've been on in the last hour have had a complete lack of discussion, or discussion of the misinformation. Genital mutilation is evil, we can make it stop (and everyone benefits, except the bastards that profit from it)

Dear forum members.

Before I risk putting any of you off, PLEASE DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH BEFORE SUBJECTING YOUR CHILD TO GENITAL MUTILATION.

Now:

I wish to raise an issue that many of you, as mothers and parental guardians, may have to make a decision on. (Though it shouldn't be a decision, just like not cutting out an eye or removing a toe shouldn't be a decision).

Forced genital mutilation, sometimes known as circumcision, is a practice that continues to this day in the USA for a variety of reasons including; misinformation, misguidedness, profit, anti-masturbation hysteria.

I, personally, suffered this procedure at around the age of 10 as a 'treatment' for issues of bed wetting and possible phimosis. Absolute mal-practice. Bed wetting, and related issues, are common in 5% of the population at that age and decline naturally as the individual matures. Phimosis can easily be treated by stretching. Also, Phimosis is NEVER an issue in immature children, it can only exist in males that have begun puberty.


Mutilating your child's genitals provides NO health benefits.
It is extremely damaging psychologically and physically.
You wouldn't mutilate your daughter&#8230;
It drastically reduces sensitivity
It continues as a practice for reasons of greed.
At the very least, let your child CHOOSE to get it when he is a consenting adult - if he wants to (which he won't assuming he has learnt how to use Google)

1. In order to prove 1 requires a very mild understanding of logic. USA = high circumcision and high rates of STIs, Europe = low circumcision and low rates of STIs. That should be fairly simple to understand.

Studies that say otherwise are easily debunked, for example: A study shows less UTI's in circumcised males. This study is comparing full circumcision to babies whose mothers retract their foreskin. DO NOT RETRACT YOUR BABIES' FORESKIN. The foreskin is designed to protect the glans (head) of the penis. Your child will retract it when he's ready (around puberty). Another study shows lower rates of STI's amongst circumcised populations. This is comparing Islamic states (high religious societal control) with non-Islamic states&#8230; go figure.

2. There are a great deal of studies that show how trauma as a baby can impact on your subconscious throughout your entire life.

3. Male and female genital mutilation are equivalent in damage. Why then would you do that to your son? (youtube) /watch?v=98f3IavuEgQ

4. It removes 85% of the nerve endings (they are in the foreskin). It dries out what remains, and numbs it - when you remove the foreskin, the glans must toughen via 'keretinisation' in order to withstand clothing. This loss of sensitivity has a direct impact on the mutilated individuals relationships.

5. thewellspring (dot) [com]/flex/myth-circumcision-is-neither-harmful-nor-painful/2617/circumcision-who-profits.cfm & norm-uk (dot) [org]/where_do_foreskins_go.html

&#8230;

If you have already circumcised your child, I understand that it could be difficult to face this information. Please do not close up about it, instead - spread the word, and when your child comes of age explain that you did what the doctor advised. Don't let it ruin your relationship with your child, they WILL have the internet and they WILL know how to use it to find out the truth, better they hear it from you than that they discover it by other means and blame you for it.

Sources:

http://circumcisionnews.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/debunking-another-myths-article.html (In depth debunking of myths)

http://circumcisionnews.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/fatally-flawed-bollingers-circumcision.html (More in depth debunking of myths)





 (PhD presentation on genital mutilation)

http://www.notjustskin.org/node/7 (FAQ on genital mutilation)

http://momsnotbombs.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/difference-between-intact-cut.html (NSFW, explicit images documenting the difference)





 (The similarity between male and female mutilation)

https://www.youtube.com/user/canadiangirlstalk (2 Canadian girls that are actively against forced genital mutilation)





 (Dutch documentary "Mum, why did you circumcise me?"





 (Mutilated at 18, speaks candidly about his loss)





 (An entire playlist of women talking out against mutilation, starting with 'A mother's regret')





 (An entire playlist of men talking out against mutilation)

https://www.youtube.com/user/Bonobo3D?feature=watch (A youtube channel with a good set of videos)





 (This guy is awesome)

Other resources:

http://www.notjustskin.org/

http://www.foreskin-restoration.net/forum

http://www.nocirc.org/

http://norm.org/

http://www.foregen.org/

http://www.tlctugger.com/

http://www.circumstitions.com/

http://circumcisionnews.blogspot.co.uk/

http://www.genitalautonomy.org/about-ga/

Sources: (sans linkage)
circumcisionnews blogspot co uk/2011/09/debunking-another-myths-article.html (In depth debunking of myths)
circumcisionnews blogspot co uk/2010/05/fatally-flawed-bollingers-circumcision html (More in depth debunking of myths)
youtube /watch?v=Ceht-3xu84I&feature=channel_video_title (PhD presentation on genital mutilation)
notjustskin org/node/7 (FAQ on genital mutilation)
momsnotbombs blogspot co uk/2012/03/difference-between-intact-cut.html (NSFW, explicit images documenting the difference)
youtube /watch?v=98f3IavuEgQ (The similarity between male and female mutilation)
youtube /user/canadiangirlstalk (2 Canadian girls that are actively against forced genital mutilation)
youtube /watch?v=U5kaEEckXmU (Dutch documentary "Mum, why did you circumcise me?"
youtube /watch?v=NAHGFx95D80 (Mutilated at 18, speaks candidly about his loss)
youtube /watch?v=DqIGGq175ps&playnext=1&list=PL5CB70719DE8480F6&feature=results_main (An entire playlist of women talking out against mutilation, starting with 'A mother's regret')
youtube /watch?v=Y7FOGCsNgRM&playnext=1&list=PL3AAD8FA7F462D698&feature=results_main (An entire playlist of men talking out against mutilation)
youtube /user/Bonobo3D?feature=watch (A youtube channel with a good set of videos)
youtube /watch?v=z8izJ6odbCo&feature=youtu.be (This guy is awesome)
Other resources:
notjustskin org/
foreskin-restoration net/forum
nocirc org/
norm org/
foregen org/
tlctugger com/
circumstitions com/
circumcisionnews blogspot co uk/
genitalautonomy org/about-ga/


----------



## biomedical

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bugmenot*
> 
> This thread is all kinds of horrifying and sad. It's like watching someone get raped and realizing you can't do anything about it...ok, not really, but it's painful to be able to read this.
> 
> But, at the same time, it's great. It's great to know that people who were circumcised without their consent are doing something about it. Some are restoring. Even if a circumcised-but-regrets-it man will never have kids, or just had daughters and no sons, the ball is still rolling in the right direction.
> 
> It's the beginning of an avalanche. It's small right now, but it's growing larger by the day.
> 
> This thread is proof that the lies thought up by the doctors "he won't remember it" or "it's painless" or whatever they're saying is just that. LIes.
> 
> Keep fighting the good fight, everyone. Even if you're done having kids, you just had daughters, or even if your sons are circumcised and you realized you didn't know better at the time, you're still very much in the fight.


It is almost impossible to talk about it. When anything horrific occurs to a baby they will grow up to accept whatever it is because they have no choice. Every man who regrets his neonatal circumcision has had to have the motivation to question something that has been and always will be an intimate part of his world for his entire existence. Hardly anybody experiences such motivation. In the unfortunate event that observation leads one toward understanding the nature of what has happened the aversion against looking closer is as instinctive as looking away from the sun or recoiling from a hot flame. For me this means I can never forgive myself for having the intellectual honesty to push myself to try to fully comprehend what circumcision really was. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to remain ignorant and I was stupid enough to willfully ignore the instincts that would have kept me safe for the sake of something as empty as intellectual honesty and "truth".

For the rest of my life I will remain aware that I am being permanently gang raped by a trophy taking ethically diseased "medical" community gone horribly horribly wrong. The fact that the rapists truly believed it was somehow for my own good fails to comfort me. The fact that apparently most of their other victims successfully avoid personally confronting their loss and violation fails to comfort me. the fact that the rapists continue to rape and continue to be allowed to openly rape and that they ridicule and belittle their victims who speak up is so far beyond unacceptable that it makes me physically ill over and over.

If we as a society were to blind, deafen, torture or otherwise maim and harm our newborns in large enough numbers it is obvious that we would by and large come to one day accept and defend it and that fact destroys all my faith in humanity.

Obviously I've lost a possibly enormous dimension of the physiological foundation of my sex life certainly but what really eats away at me and my life is the discovery of just how trivial it is to hide 100 million plus rapes in plain sight in my own culture.

Few men will post here. Few men are reckless enough to confront something about which they instinctively know they can do nothing about and which undermines the value of what they often perceive as the most valuable dimension of their lives.

Its not really denial. it's lack of exploration of a horrible bottomless dark place that holds no rewards and only pain and which taints and undermines the morality of their entire community at its simplest most basic and human levels and which puts their appreciation of the simplest of human pleasures to shame.


----------



## biomedical

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bugmenot*
> 
> This thread is all kinds of horrifying and sad. It's like watching someone get raped and realizing you can't do anything about it...ok, not really, but it's painful to be able to read this.
> 
> But, at the same time, it's great. It's great to know that people who were circumcised without their consent are doing something about it. Some are restoring. Even if a circumcised-but-regrets-it man will never have kids, or just had daughters and no sons, the ball is still rolling in the right direction.
> 
> It's the beginning of an avalanche. It's small right now, but it's growing larger by the day.
> 
> This thread is proof that the lies thought up by the doctors "he won't remember it" or "it's painless" or whatever they're saying is just that. LIes.
> 
> Keep fighting the good fight, everyone. Even if you're done having kids, you just had daughters, or even if your sons are circumcised and you realized you didn't know better at the time, you're still very much in the fight.


It is almost impossible to talk about it. When anything horrific occurs to a baby they will grow up to accept whatever it is because they have no choice. Every man who regrets his neonatal circumcision has had to have the motivation to question something that has been and always will be an intimate part of his world for his entire existence. Hardly anybody experiences such motivation. In the unfortunate event that observation leads one toward understanding the nature of what has happened the aversion against looking closer is as instinctive as looking away from the sun or recoiling from a hot flame. For me this means I can never forgive myself for having the intellectual honesty to push myself to try to fully comprehend what circumcision really was. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to remain ignorant and I was stupid enough to willfully ignore the instincts that would have kept me safe for the sake of something as empty as intellectual honesty and "truth".

For the rest of my life I will remain aware that I am being permanently gang raped by a trophy taking ethically diseased "medical" community gone horribly horribly wrong. The fact that the rapists truly believed it was somehow for my own good fails to comfort me. The fact that apparently most of their other victims successfully avoid personally confronting their loss and violation fails to comfort me. the fact that the rapists continue to rape and continue to be allowed to openly rape and that they ridicule and belittle their victims who speak up is so far beyond unacceptable that it makes me physically ill over and over.

If we as a society were to blind, deafen, torture or otherwise maim and harm our newborns in large enough numbers it is obvious that we would by and large come to one day accept and defend it and that fact destroys all my faith in humanity.

Obviously I've lost a possibly enormous dimension of the physiological foundation of my sex life certainly but what really eats away at me and my life is the discovery of just how trivial it is to hide 100 million plus rapes in plain sight in my own culture.

Few men will post here. Few men are reckless enough to confront something about which they instinctively know they can do nothing about and which undermines the value of what they often perceive as the most valuable dimension of their lives.

Its not really denial. it's lack of exploration of a horrible bottomless dark place that holds no rewards and only pain and which taints and undermines the morality of their entire community at its simplest most basic and human levels and which puts their appreciation of the simplest of human pleasures to shame.


----------



## BB004

Stumbled on this thread through google. Hope this isn't TMI or anything...

The scar tissue has been a hindrance for me, almost like they cut too much off. There have been times where it just sorta tears open, and I start bleeding a little.

In addition, I have another scar just below the head... I believe this has to do with not having enough skin, and causing an actual 'tear'.

Occasionally, I also feel sort of a phantom sensation, where the upper part of my penis seems ice cold. I can touch it, and 'feel' that it's warm / the same temperature as everything else, but I still have this icy sensation.

After having these problems, I had asked my mother why she had this done. Her response was 'because you have to clean it' :/


----------



## Islay

And norm-uk.org

Britain, where infant boys are very rarely circumcised, but older males - pre-pubescent and adult - are far too often circumcised for spurious penis health issues.

Christopher


----------



## Islay

BB004 - nothing is TMI when discussing circumcision and all its consequences. We can't approach the subject properly without the freedom to be explicit.

I think it's possible that you had too much removed, judging by your comments. Every baby boy's natural penis grows in tandem with his body as the years go by, including his foreskin of course. You should have been left with enough foreskin for your penis to 'grow into' as you grew older, leaving your glans permanently exposed as an adult but without the problems you have now. I was sadly but necessarily circumcised as an adult, with none of the problems you are suffering - except for the matter of sensation which you mentioned.

When you say the upper part of your penis, I'm assuming you mean your exposed glans (head). You explain: "Occasionally, I also feel sort of a phantom sensation, where the upper part of my penis seems ice cold. I can touch it, and 'feel' that it's warm / the same temperature as everything else, but I still have this icy sensation."

I'm not sure I understand the "icy" sensation you speak of, but I do understand the "same temperature as everything else." I use a tap (faucet in American English) to wash residue urine from my penis after urinating when I can. (Not an option when using public urinals, of course.) But when I can, I have discovered a shocking fact... icy cold or very hot water on my de-sensitised glans gives me no sensation at all, and I mean nothing other than a sense of pressure as the water falls. But I recoil in an instinctive reaction to cold or heat if the water splashes on shaft skin. Is this what you mean? Or are your finger tips much colder than the head of your penis when you touch, perhaps?

Christopher


----------



## cesium

I noticed this thread, and thought I would give my input.

I was circumcised as an infant. I have younger brothers, who underwent the same. I was vaguely aware of this fact since a young age. I can't really remember the discussions, why they happened, etc.; I remember it being described as a "flap of skin," which is how I assume it was described to my parents by the doctor. I began to do some of my own reading into it, but it never really "clicked," until I re-encountered the topic a few years ago. Before then, it was like, for instance, seeing in the mirror that you have green eyes or something, just a body feature, but at that point, the significance began to register: this was something that was done to me, not just a matter of genetics.

I can't really speak for what I've missed, as it was a neonatal procedure, but I'll relate some various anecdotes regarding my experience:

The single thing, that I wish I could change about this aspect of my anatomy, is the exposure to friction from clothing. This is what affects me day to day. I remember taking up cycling in earnest when younger, and having it become a bigger issue than normal. I wondered whether there was some type of "hood" that I could use to protect from abrasion under my cycling shorts. At that point, I was still naive to what I was missing. The upside, is that I believe there is some hope for resolving this. Restoration may not replace lost nerve endings, but it has the potential to rebuild this protective skin.

For a long time, I have been fearful of certain doctor visits. Specifically, the dentist. This, I find odd, since my dentist has always been incredibly kind, and I had zero dental issues or negative experiences at the time this fear began. By my early teens, I was unable to sleep days before I knew I had an appointment coming. In college, I used my newfound freedom to avoid making these appointments, and my oral health suffered. Now, I make regular visits, without much trouble. Sometimes I am still uncomfortable in the chair, but I feel my body relax substantially when I mentally recite a mantra. What mantra? "They aren't going to touch my penis." I think something about that vulnerable position recalls some deeply hidden memories, but now that I understand this, I can try keep them at bay.

Finally, the subject of sexuality. I have seen how it has affected past sexual partners, aspects such as dryness, potentially lengthy time to orgasm (for myself), etc. What really has me amazed, though, is the centuries old idea that circumcision prevents masturbation. My earliest memories, are of masturbating. I don't remember discovering it, that happened even before I can remember. I remember being in a crib, or some other type of enclosed bed, and finding ways to move against a stuffed animal. These nerves were meant to be untouched at this point, sealed under a covering to be awoken years later. Instead, I was stimulating them in an almost pathological way: my mother sewed patches on to these stuffed toys where I literally wore through them. I wonder if she knew what was happening to them, or why? 

To hopeful parents. I know that there is a whole universe of often conflicting information that you are wading through. Diet, medication, birthing, sleeping, feeding, bathing, etc., and everyone you know telling you how it "should" be done. 

I guess what I would say is, I can understand what happened. This was before the internet, and both sides of my family are pretty quiet when it comes to sexual matters. Were my parents going to take time from their hectic lives, to thumb through the card catalog at a library, which hopefully had some enlightened information on the subject?

What I understand less, though, is that, after having to care for my recovery, they let my brothers go through the same thing. The one piece of definitive advice I'll give is, if you're contemplating circumcision because the older male sibling is already cut, don't do it. I know that I am on my way to processing and dealing with what I went through, but it tears at my heart to think that my brothers had to face it as well.

So here's me, telling you what you should do (even though I implied I wouldn't), and maybe you've got family or friends who have different ideas. All you can do, is come up with your own decision, and stick to it. What I can say is, we're a long way beyond the card catalog and the librarian. If you're reading this, you likely have some way to access the internet, and if you're still making up your mind, I suggest you locate a video of the procedure being performed. Can you watch it all the way through? with sound? I wasn't able to.


----------



## Greg B

*For those interested in this subject...*

For those interested there is a new book that covers this theme very well, and is not very expensive:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L5FPF2C

Regards


----------



## hakunangovi

Greg B said:


> For those interested there is a new book that covers this theme very well, and is not very expensive:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L5FPF2C
> 
> Regards


Greg, the Amazon link you gave does not yield a result - just sends you to Amazon's home page. Would you mind naming the book? Thanks!!


----------



## hakunangovi

hakunangovi said:


> Greg, the Amazon link you gave does not yield a result - just sends you to Amazon's home page. Would you mind naming the book? Thanks!!


Oh, now it comes up it the window of your post - disregard the previous comment.


----------



## Greg B

*Oops & Thanks*

But it is good practice to at least name the book, sorry, I should have done that. The title of the book is:

Unspeakable Mutilations: Circumcised Men Speak Out

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L5FPF2C

Regards


----------



## cut later

Hi. My parents decided to respect the right of choice for both my brother and I. When our second child, a son, was born the doctor tried to convince me of the benefits of circumcision. It was never a question for us that it was something we had no right to choose for him, but I was curious when the doctor was so adamant that things would be so much better. I decided to see for myself. I got a referral to a urologist who agreed to do the procedure. I was nervous because of the comments about it being agony for an adult, things would be bad for healing and other nonsense. I went in as outpatient first thing in the morning. Out by noon. We had a work party to attend that evening and we went. Other than the bandage things were OK. Next day when I removed the bandage it wasn't a pretty sight, swelling and bruising and the stitches looked like I had a part sewn on. I was surprised that there was no pain from the cutting, some discomfort from the handling during the operation. The swelling and bruising cleared fairly quickly. Having the previously covered part continuously exposed was distracting, but it desensitized quickly. The stitches were itchy. That was the worst part. Once completely healed, my wife found a big difference when we had sex. She preferred me intact. I regret the amount of sensation I lost. All things considered, if I had known before the truth of the result I wouldn't have done it. The reason for my note here is to suggest that if parents respect their son's right to choose, and he decides to go through with it, it isn't a big deal as an adult and the choice was his. He can live with the consequences of his decision. I really hope parents come to decide to both love and RESPECT their newborn boys. Thanks


----------



## hakunangovi

Thank you for your honest post. In most cases when an adult undergoes a circumcision and states that he is happy with the result, it seems that they were suffering from some issue with their foreskin that the circumcision resolved. I do not believe for a second that a man with zero issues would be happy loosing all those nerves and the functional aspect of a foreskin. Sadly the loss of sensation seems to be exacerbated in older age.


----------



## Juic3boxx

*Trying to save Nephew, Please Help!*

I was wondering if any of the men here or wives of men here have ever considered circumcision for their child or children? What do you think I could say to someone that wants their son circumcised? I am trying to protect my nephew from this horrible practice. I have sent numerous articles and they have even watched a video or two on the subject. They say they have researched it, but still want it done. I first would like to say that I have never met anyone that after fully researching the subject would or could still put their days old infant through this. I have an intact son b/c i saw something about "why i chose not to circumcise". And it made me research and research some more. I will admit that if my daughter had been born a boy I would have ignorantly circumcised her. That's all I knew. That's what seemed normal(at the time). Why wouldn't you circumcise that's what every one does. This was my thought process. My mother was the only other person that had tried to get me to change my mind. But thankfully I had a daughter instead of a son. I have tried to explain to these people that my son hasn't had any problems thus far. Kind of using him as a first hand experience(someone they know personally) hoping to change their minds. You all have heard of that man that had to have it done later in life b/c of one reason or another, and it was so painful. Well they are going to do it to him so young b/c he won't remember it. Sorry I just feel so sick right now. From what i gather they want it done b/c men on the mothers side of the family have a "history" of "having" to be circumcised later in life and they " don't want him to have to go through it later or remember it"!!! My thing is if it turns into a medical necessity then ok, but not to try and prevent something that may never happen to him. I am really saddened by this and want to at least try one more time for my nephew, to show that at least one person cares about his general integrity. How would you men feel if someone in your family came to you after knowing that you were hurt by your circ as an adult and told you that they had tried to get your parents to leave you intact, but your parents didn't listen? I have been asked by my brother not to send anymore information. That they had made up their minds. I really feel like sitting down and really pouring my heart out to them in a letter, pleading with them to leave my nephew intact. Keeping a copy and if nephew ever wants to know I will show him the letter I sent to his parents. What do you think? I know this is not my child, but everyone that is expecting I give them info on this subject.


----------



## Greg B

Juic3boxx said:


> I was wondering if any of the men here or wives of men here have ever considered circumcision for their child or children? What do you think I could say to someone that wants their son circumcised? I am trying to protect my nephew from this horrible practice. I have sent numerous articles and they have even watched a video or two on the subject. They say they have researched it, but still want it done....
> 
> You all have heard of that man that had to have it done later in life b/c of one reason or another, and it was so painful. Well they are going to do it to him so young b/c he won't remember it. Sorry I just feel so sick right now. From what i gather they want it done b/c men on the mothers side of the family have a "history" of "having" to be circumcised later in life and they " don't want him to have to go through it later or remember it"!!!...
> 
> I have been asked by my brother not to send anymore information. That they had made up their minds...


There are several flaws in their arguments.

First, they are ignoring their son's human rights.

Second, they are going further in making the medical decision for their child than the law and society allows.

Third, they are assuming that any problems that may have arisen for the men on the mother's side of the family were due to problems with the foreskin, rather than with improper treatment, yet we know that doctors (I am assuming they were in the US?) were clueless back then and actually caused many problems with incorrect care recommendations to parents.

Fourth, they are assuming that inconceivable pain (worse than the horror stories of patients being operated on with ineffective anesthesia) and no ability to process why this is happening when you are an infant is a better tradeoff than waiting until the adult can 1) make his own decision about his medical treatment, 2) have effective anesthesia, and 3) process why and accept it mentally.

Those are the big ones in my mind. But, you are up against irrational thinking, poor decision making, fear of risks outweighing everything else. There is research that suggests that logic and evidence based thinking does not work with people entrenched in their position. The only thing that does is when someone they respect and look up to as a leader gives them a different perspective.

It sounds like you have made a strong effort to make them see how wrong they are. That is all anyone can do. Unfortunately, our society still allows children to be mistreated in some ways.

Some other people in your situation have told the parents that they would be ready when the child is older and on his own, to provide the child with material about what was done, why it is terribly wrong, and what he can do about it (restore, sue, etc).

The only other thing I can offer is that communication is very tricky in these situations. There is a great resource, a book called Crucial Conversations (http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Talking-Stakes-Edition/dp/0071771328) that I highly recommend. It is all about helping people feel safe to stay in dialogue, rather than go silent or verbally attack. It is invaluable when emotions run high, like this sound could potentially be happening.

You fought the good fight, perhaps, and now they will do what they will do, right or wrong, well thought out or poorly thought out. Thank you for trying!

Best


----------



## hakunangovi

Juic3boxx said:


> I was wondering if any of the men here or wives of men here have ever considered circumcision for their child or children? What do you think I could say to someone that wants their son circumcised? I am trying to protect my nephew from this horrible practice. I have sent numerous articles and they have even watched a video or two on the subject. They say they have researched it, but still want it done. I first would like to say that I have never met anyone that after fully researching the subject would or could still put their days old infant through this.


Kudos to you for trying to save your nephew. I agree with everything Greg stated above, and I completely understand your difficulty understanding how anyone could subject their precious baby to this horrific procedure after knowing what it entails.

I wonder if you could get them to watch the video "The elephant in the hospital" by Dr Ryan McAllister which can be found on www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org . It lays out the subject in way that one can only view it as absurd. Or maybe bizarre. Which, when you step back and consider what circumcision is: the surgical removal of the most sensitive part of the perfectly healthy genitalia - is the only logical conclusion.

The sad fact is that virtually all these circumcisions that one hears "had" to be done were either caused by improper care (forceful and premature retraction) or were the result of a minor issue and improper treatment. Pretty well all issues can be resolved medically or with minimal surgery but North American doctors resort to circumcision for all issues, be the real or perceived. There is a statistic from Finland - an intact nation who just leave foreskins to develop as nature intended - which states that only one in over 16,600 men will die without his foreskin. Nature does not make mistakes - it is our ignorant North American medical system. Your brother and his wife need to understand that a foreskin is not some ticking time bomb.

You are not the first person to consider saving information to give to the boy they were trying to save at a later date. I will say that if I knew my parents had all the information and still went ahead and had me circumcised that I would be beond pissed at them. There are men out there who have cut off all ties with their parents over this.

Good luck! Let us know how you make out. And if you need any specific references we can probably help.


----------



## kayne2000

biomedical said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by *bugmenot*
> 
> This thread is all kinds of horrifying and sad. It's like watching someone get raped and realizing you can't do anything about it...ok, not really, but it's painful to be able to read this.
> 
> But, at the same time, it's great. It's great to know that people who were circumcised without their consent are doing something about it. Some are restoring. Even if a circumcised-but-regrets-it man will never have kids, or just had daughters and no sons, the ball is still rolling in the right direction.
> 
> It's the beginning of an avalanche. It's small right now, but it's growing larger by the day.
> 
> This thread is proof that the lies thought up by the doctors "he won't remember it" or "it's painless" or whatever they're saying is just that. LIes.
> 
> Keep fighting the good fight, everyone. Even if you're done having kids, you just had daughters, or even if your sons are circumcised and you realized you didn't know better at the time, you're still very much in the fight.
> 
> It is almost impossible to talk about it. When anything horrific occurs to a baby they will grow up to accept whatever it is because they have no choice. Every man who regrets his neonatal circumcision has had to have the motivation to question something that has been and always will be an intimate part of his world for his entire existence. Hardly anybody experiences such motivation. In the unfortunate event that observation leads one toward understanding the nature of what has happened the aversion against looking closer is as instinctive as looking away from the sun or recoiling from a hot flame. For me this means I can never forgive myself for having the intellectual honesty to push myself to try to fully comprehend what circumcision really was. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to remain ignorant and I was stupid enough to willfully ignore the instincts that would have kept me safe for the sake of something as empty as intellectual honesty and "truth".
> 
> For the rest of my life I will remain aware that I am being permanently gang raped by a trophy taking ethically diseased "medical" community gone horribly horribly wrong. The fact that the rapists truly believed it was somehow for my own good fails to comfort me. The fact that apparently most of their other victims successfully avoid personally confronting their loss and violation fails to comfort me. the fact that the rapists continue to rape and continue to be allowed to openly rape and that they ridicule and belittle their victims who speak up is so far beyond unacceptable that it makes me physically ill over and over.
> 
> If we as a society were to blind, deafen, torture or otherwise maim and harm our newborns in large enough numbers it is obvious that we would by and large come to one day accept and defend it and that fact destroys all my faith in humanity.
> 
> Obviously I've lost a possibly enormous dimension of the physiological foundation of my sex life certainly but what really eats away at me and my life is the discovery of just how trivial it is to hide 100 million plus rapes in plain sight in my own culture.
> 
> Few men will post here. Few men are reckless enough to confront something about which they instinctively know they can do nothing about and which undermines the value of what they often perceive as the most valuable dimension of their lives.
> 
> Its not really denial. it's lack of exploration of a horrible bottomless dark place that holds no rewards and only pain and which taints and undermines the morality of their entire community at its simplest most basic and human levels and which puts their appreciation of the simplest of human pleasures to shame.


i registered simply to say this post hits my thoughts exactly.

for me when i discovered circumcision, its like 3 things were answered all at once in addition to the screaming horror i now discovered.

1. the root cause of why America is screwed in the head. after all how can 100 million or 1/3 of the population be victims of rape in silence, and we still have a successful functioning country....indeed we must look at our dark soul.

2. why ive always hated my mother....suddenly it made sense. because theres no logical reason i should have such a natural hate for her. seriously to even think about saying "I love you", makes me sick to my stomach and has for many many years prior to discovering circumcision, and at a gut instinct level i felt this way.

3. why ive always thought my body looked hideous. seriously ive always thought my penis looked ugly and deformed and in my early years of life I used to try and shove my penis back into what foreskin there was because i always thought that was more comfortable. i gave up eventually but still my child self seemed to be aware something was wrong.

all this has really made me see things exactly like the above poster.

you are right...to confront this requires a lot of motivation and to do so ive had to admit my entire life is a lie. the schools, the doctors, the churches, parents. etc. theyve all sold me a lie that raping and torturing children is acceptable...in retrospect it doesnt shock me now that ive uncovered said lies.

the old internet meme....what is seen cannot be unseen rings very true.

you speak of a trophy talking ethical medical community....its strange really. Im getting a bachelors in behavorial science and psychology....funny how I now see just what kind of hell hole of a community i'd be walking into if I went and got a PHD.



> The fact that apparently most of their other victims successfully avoid personally confronting their loss and violation fails to comfort me


I just want to emphasize this....because it is SOOOOO ME.


> the fact that the rapists continue to rape and continue to be allowed to openly rape and that they ridicule and belittle their victims who speak up is so far beyond unacceptable that it makes me physically ill over and over.


and this...I get ill over it. Ive driven myself to be sick probably. I also now hate all doctors.



> If we as a society were to blind, deafen, torture or otherwise maim and harm our newborns in large enough numbers it is obvious that we would by and large come to one day accept and defend it and that fact destroys all my faith in humanity.


this has been my conclusion too. in fact Ive found scriptures in my religion that support such strange ideas. its like it all makes sense now.



> just how trivial it is to hide 100 million plus rapes in plain sight in my own culture.


this again needs to be emphasized....the so called Land of the free, Home of the brain. American land of freedom and all that jazz....secretly and without any shame or guilt at all, rapes most of its boys without giving a crap. we just dont care....and then we all scratch our heads and ask "why is the country so screwed up???"



> Few men will post here.


another sad but true statement.



> Its not really denial. it's lack of exploration of a horrible bottomless dark place that holds no rewards and only pain and which taints and undermines the morality of their entire community at its simplest most basic and human levels and which puts their appreciation of the simplest of human pleasures to shame.


this explains it so perfectly....discovering circumcision really made me realize my entire world is a lie. and intentional cold hard calculated lie. its true I've discovered nothing but pain looking into this. Ive seen nothing but our dark soul. Indeed Ive seen nothing but the devil himself laughing in hysteria as hes persuaded the land of the free that raping its infants is the good and wholesome thing to do and not raping them is considered insane.

indeed we have fought a war and slavery and still bring that up, yet raping boys....eh who cares.

im posting your post on my facebook....not that anyone will reply to it. no one replies to any of my circumcision shared photos and postings, they reply to nearly anything else though. ill be sharing it to some anti circumcision groups as well. so I hope you dont mind. but really I truly LOVE your post. so profound and describes my feelings EXACTLY.

indeed what I have learned is....America is not the land of the free nor the home of the brave. It is A Nation of Pedophiles.


----------



## Jeff Smith

I was circumcised when I was 1 month old. for years my mom told me it was for my own good. I listened to a radio show when I was 12 or 13 and a caller called in about circumcision. He described how his boys had vomitted from the process, and it freaked me out worrying that I'd go through that. My mom told me that I had already been done, and at the time that gave me relief. I masturbated back then (still do today) and in full honesty I found it left me unfulfilled. years went by where my mom told me things like FGM is far worse than circumcision, instilling in me the view that boys are dirty, to the point of needing surgery, and that doing this to a boy without his say was ok. it didn't sit well with me, but I accepted it for year. When I was 28 or 29, it dawned on me what had truly happened.

I was in pain emotional torment! I felt violated, the lack of sexual pleasure I felt made sense. the sense of betrayal I had knowing that my genitals were violated, that I wasn't given a say. that this is so systemic yet society doesn't care. it upset me further to learn that Feminists the ideology which claims to stand for equal rights saw boys and girls being circumcised in North America they coined the term Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) demonized it, and lobbied to make it illegal. They did these things all the while ignoring the suffering and deaths boys faced for a similar act.

It really got under my skin when I learned that pain management wasn't something really done for babies until 1987 (even today doctors rarely give anything close to the pain management required if they do anything at all) I was done in 1983, meaning I was likely just strapped into a circumstraint, and a probe was inserted between my shaft and my foreskin to tear the connective tissue I had, a clamp was placed to crush a small section of my foreskin for limit blood loss and see how deep they can cut. a scissor like device was used to cut along the crushed skin, and a bell placed around the head of my penis and screwed in tight and the rest of my foreskin sliced away with a scalpel. All without pain management, without my consent. I feel violated, devalued as a human being, I feel angered that I wasn't protected, more so today knowing that girls not boys have protections from this barbarism. I feel angered that this act is allowed to continue with millions of boys (thanks for the information age we entered) feeling when I feel when they learn what they lost, a clitoris has 9,000 nerve endings, the foreskin as 20,000! for the women here imagine your clitoris being cut off twice then maybe you can understand when I went through.

As for the result of the surgery, I faired better than others, I had a bend in my penis indication if scar tissue and trauma to the area and the obvious loss of sexual pleasure, but otherwise my penis is fine. I know others who didn't fair as well. Brayden Tyler Frazier died 2 days after his circumcision, he just wouldn't stop bleeding. David Reimer likewise didn't fair so well born Bruce Reimer, lost his penis in a circumcision, Dr. John Money had him raised as a girl named brenda, and he eventually changed back to male as David, and killed himself. some men had deformities like you wouldn't believe but ignore me if you want it's not like this effects you.


----------



## Mitchell756

I started this thread after hearing countless people state that they had never heard a man complain about having part of his body cut off without any consent to him as a person. Nearly two and a half years later i am glad to see that it is still going strong.


----------



## James Ketter

When I say I was damaged by infant circumcision, I should be specific.


There wasn't anything immediately wrong with the genital cutting I was subjected to. My parents and the doctor were quite happy with the immediate result, and frankly, other than a few hurtful comments on how short my penis appeared, I didn't know any different as a child.


Puberty changed everything.


You see, it is impossible to tell how much penile skin a baby will need when he grows up. His tiny penis isn't developed yet. Doctors have to guess how much of the mobile structure of the penis to destroy. They often guess wrong. The most common complications include removal of too much skin (like what happened to me), and removal of too little, which causes other nasty complications.


During puberty I experienced tight, painful erections. Without enough slack skin, the bulk of my penis had been trapped my whole life. It made my penis look shorter than it really was. When erections and my growth spurt started this caused me a great amount of pain.


My penis skin literally split under the tension. I was left with less than half the penile skin I should have had. No one noticed this, because frankly, some kids are just less endowed than others. And, what parent is going to try and get their child hard to see if he has enough skin? No, that never happened. That would have been a whole other level of child abuse.


The growth and erections of my teen years left me with stretch marks and awful scarring. Masturbation was actually impossible for me because of the tight skin until I was 15 years old. Oh, I was horny as all the other teens, but I just couldn't do anything about it because of the pain it caused me.


I never told my parents this, because, let's face it, teenage boys DO NOT talk to their parents about their penis or masturbation habits.


With no one to talk to about it, I assumed that all my sexual problems were my fault. I blamed myself for not being masculine enough. I blamed myself for being defective.


Twice before I was 18 I tried to kill myself because of my perceived failings as a male.


When I finally had sex, I was disturbed to discover I just couldn't feel anything from my partner. Years of scarring and thickening of the skin left me with an insensitive member that wasn't equal to the task. The only way I could feel anything through my penis was during masturbation and with a death grip that could crush full beer cans. A vagina has some grip, sure, but no where near enough for me to feel what I ought to have felt.


This led to years of depression, self blame, and a lot worse. I had to fake orgasms with women. It was devastating to my psyche. Eventually it was just too much work, so the relationships would break down because of lack of intimacy.


I came across foreskin restoration a few years ago, and it was a purely cosmetic choice for myself. I had grown up around my intact cousins, and I always felt my penis was wrong looking. The idea of hiding my horrible scars under a fold of skin sounded really appealing.


Within the first few months of starting foreskin restoration I noticed a change. As I slowly developed more slack skin, my penis slowly began to heal for the first time since I'd started puberty. The more slack skin I had, the better things functioned.


By the time I developed enough slack skin to again cover the glans properly I was sold.


When the skin covers the glans the glans starts to heal and shed all the thickened skin that has built up over the years. My sensitivity magnified a hundred fold. Also, shedding the thickened skin and healing the glans allowed the scaring around my meatus to soften. Pain I had had my entire life while urinating suddenly disappeared. That pain was so constant and expected that I thought it was normal. My mind had become accustomed to the pain so much that it no longer registered. Suddenly not feeling a pain I had had my entire life was a revelation.


Eventually I researched and discovered that I had been suffering from Meatal Stenosis all my life. At nearly 40 years of age, I was finally cured of it.


Foreskin restoration has reduced the look of my scars, improved the function of my penis, and improved my overall mental, physical and sexual health.


I have had enough foreskin now to know what both sides of circumcision feel like, and it is no contest. Foreskin is simply better in each and every way. There really is no excuse to remove a body part this valuable and functional.


My own parents, when I was a child, were just like all the pro-cutting parents I try and educate. They were convinced I was “fine.” I was a happy child, and I didn't know any better. When asked, my parents were proud of their decision, and would recommend it to their friends because of how happy THEY were with the configuration of MY penis.


But they didn't know the reality. They never could, and never can. Neither can you if you cut your sons.


When I hear men brag about their penis, and claim, “I'm cut, and I'm fine,” I laugh, because I know the truth. The more insecure you are about your penis, the more you lie and claim everything is fine. Everything is fantastic, “I am so very very happy happy with my cock!” It is a lie, and an evasion.


I know. I used to be the King of Denial. I used to say those very same things. It takes a VERY brave man to admit his penis is less than it should be. I would have walked into burning buildings, or into a war zone without blinking, but to admit my penis was flawed was something I didn't have courage enough to admit.


It took restoring my foreskin to finally make me admit out loud what had been wrong for so very long. Now I brave insults and ridicule for spreading education about the abomination that is genital cutting.


I'm sorry to say, if you cut your child, you will probably never know the damages you have done. Boys and men are not wired to talk openly and honestly with their parents about this. A man will die before he lets anyone think there is anything wrong with his penis, or his masculinity.


You can claim, “my son is fine,” all you want, but you just cannot and likely never will know the actual truth. He may not be able to face the truth of this himself. More than to anyone else, he will lie to himself.


There is no way to know how much skin a baby boy will require for his penis when he is grown. It is NOT something that can be predicted. Doctors have to guess. They can and do guess wrong more than they guess right.


I speak out against genital cutting because I know first hand how horrible and wrong it really is. I know what the circumcised child is missing. I know what he can suffer. I know what you've put him at risk for. I've experienced it.


I've researched every aspect of it, and there really is no excuse to take this pleasure away from another person.


Make no mistake, the foreskin is erogenous tissue. It is more pleasurable to have one than to NOT have one. It IS a valuable part of the penis. It is an organ with specialized functions that make a man's life better. Its loss is not insignificant. It is NOT just skin.


If you want I can give you more information about foreskin restoration.


PM me.


Don't just research circumcision. Research the foreskin.


If men were supposed to have foreskins they would have been born with them.


----------



## salr

That was the most thorough and compelling post I've seen on this topic. Thank you so much for sharing your story.


----------



## joandsarah77

Mitchell756 I hope you don't mind but I posted a link to your post over on baby Center's two intact boards.


----------



## hakunangovi

James, I applaud your courage in posting your story. If only the medical community would somehow become aware of the trail of destruction that they are leaving behind themselves ! Fortunately I was spared the physical complications that you endured for so long. However, from the age of 6, when I first discovered that I had been robbed of my foreskin, I was very disappointed. As I grew older and learned more, not only did my distress grow , but also the drive to learn all that I could about why this bizarre custom is practiced and what it does to it's victims.

You are correct that boys/men will virtually never confront their parents. Even as an adult with children of my own, the best I could do was ask my mother "Why?". As she stated her reason, I realized that she had been a victim of bad advice. She then asked if my son was circumcised, which I thought was odd since she had seen him running around naked. I answered "no", adding that in the U.K. (where they were now living) the rate of infant circumcision was less than 1%. The conversation ended there. I wish I had pursued it further and asked about my Dad's views, but I never got another chance.


----------



## JLUK

I was circumcised at the age of 45 following a freak accident. It was fully removed to allow surgery on a burst vein inside my penis - whilst making love to my wife we made a wrong movement which caused a minor rupture. ie the removal of my foreskin was kind of 'collateral damage' for emergency surgery elsewhere. 

Background : married for 20 years to the girl I first started dating at 15, we have 2 daughters. Please note I have no social, cultural or religious investment on the question of circumcision. I never gave it a seconds thought until this happened. Also my foreskin performed perfectly over 45 years, there was no medical issue with it- so its removal was not providing me with any form of relief to any preexisting discomfort or medical condition. 

So my life can be clearly be split into "one day I had a perfectly normal foreskin, the next day I didnt". The following is a summary of how my life has changed.

The broken vein in my penis was fixed and repaired in 2 weeks - fully recovered. The foreskin element however is a different story. 

To begin with : pain, pain, pain. The foreskin is full of nerves. Cutting it really hurts, and for a longtime. I could not walk comfortably for 6 weeks, and the constant rubbing of my exposed and highly sensitive 'knob' (for want of a better medical word) against my pants is a permanent discomfort. Its lessened with time, but its always there. The foreskin clearly serves as a protection to this highly sensitive area. Without it my knob is dry, and generally numb now. 

After the pain had subsided, my wife and I started to contemplate my new look erection. My penis was tighter, and with a taught skin it hurt, although this has relaxed withtime. With everything exposed, touching 'raw' is not enjoyable.

Sexual intercourse is essentially similar. Can still be painful, and certainly less natural somehow compared to what I knew before - my penis feels a bit numb, less sensitive. I understand that the lessening sensitivty leads to increasingly delayed ejaculation to the point that it can become a problem. I hope not.

Intercourse represents about 50% of intimacy with my wife. We use natural contraception so there is much withrawal. Intimacy outside of intercourse is where there is a big change. 

Ejaculation outside of intercourse - either alone or with your partner, manual or oral - is a great variation on the feeling of orgasm during intercourse and an important part of keeping our love life varied. We have not been able to recreate the same intensity since losing my foreskin. We have used an awful lot of lubrification to compensate the lack of movement - its messy, inconvenient and a poor substitute. The diversity of our sex life has unquestionably been reduced - and yet we dont lack imagination or drive. We put a brave face on it, I thank my wife for her support, and I am saddened for her that 'its not like it was'.

As a teenager I masturbated regularly. It an important part of growing up and self-discovery. I can only wonder how circumcised boys get the same sensation.

Shortly after losing my foreskin my mind was going crazy with the realisation of my new restricted situation. In fact I cried for many nights. I consulted a psychologist, for the first time ever in my life. He explained that I had suffered an amputation, and whilst seemingly minor, I had lost a particularly cherished part of my body. I was in mourning and to a minor extent in post trauma depression. This was a big help in turning the page. 

To summarise : daily life without a foreskin is less comfortable - my exposed sensitive gland is constantly irritated and dry. Its lessened with time, but still there. So women can appreciate : my wife likens it to having a cloth rubbed up against an exposed and dry clitoris all day. Irritating to say the least, right ?

Sex is undoubtedly not the same. I am fortunate to have a caring longstanding partner and we try to explore to recreate the former fun and intensity we once enjoyed together, but its not at the same level anymore. I appreciate the good times I was able to have for 35 years.

-------------------

Interestingly the Forum is called "the case against circumcision" - I must be addressing an audience where the practice is deeply entrenched. I would be interested in "the case for circumcision", as so far I struggle to find a credible positive change experience independent of medical needs or religion. I would love to find some, I need the morale boost

The following is a personal analysis of circumcision, looking at it as someone who has never given it a real thought, but following my experience it left me wondering "why would anyone do this to their child ?" - so I investigated to try to understand. 


I leave religious considerations aside.

I hear the argument of "hygene" - errrr, ever heard of soap and warm water ? I used to love cleaning my foreskin every morning, a great start to the day. My wife would be the first person to shout out at the sign of dirtiness - and she has spent a long time with it. Have you ever considered how dirty mens hands fingernails can be as they caress you ? 

If you are a dirty unhygenic man, removing the foreskin will not make you automatically a clean one. All I can say to mothers is : teach your boy to wash properly and regularly. Its good for him, and respectful to his future partners.

I hear 'its safer for HIVand STDs etc'. If this is your concern, I think you should be considering lifestyle and upbringing choices. Are all men to be assumed guilty of being a risk and cut at birth ? Educate your son on lifestyle, dont say to him 'your were cut to lessen the risk of STD', thats giving him a false sense of security that since he has no foreskin hes not in danger. Protection is the only safe way if you want to those risks. 

"Reduces the risk of infection in a baby". Infection is rare, apparently 1 in 500. Infection or other complication due to the act of circumcision has the same risk, around 1in 500 - so this is hardly a solution to this low risk issue. Bearing in mind the longer term picture, why this short term preventative action ? If you have problems retracting your child’s foreskin to clean, then move on to consider the medical circumcision option. But don’t do it right from the start just to facilitate early childcare. He’s got a whole life ahead of him.

"Never did me any harm, my son should be like me". I wonder how many dads who have lived life both 'before' and 'after' say this. 

I read that in some societies circumcision was originally promoted to reduce sexual enjoyment -basically to stop kids masturbating and to reduce the evil pleasures of sex. From that point of view, my experience is that its indeed very effective.

Of the expectants mothers I have spoken to, I get the impression they believe that the foreskin is a useless piece of skin that is a risk to their child and who's loss is of little consequence once the initial pain is gone. Its not. As I appreciated once mine was gone - its the amputation of what will become an important and cherished part of the male body and an integral part of the penis and its sexual function- to be treated with care, to be discussed and cleaned openly with a young boy so that he becomes aware of its importance. He will grow to appreciate it.

Having lived 'before' and'after', I am really left bewildered as to why a parent would do this to their child - I can only assume that thoughts are for the short term childcare, not the long term which is much less discussed. If they could see the day to day reality on both sides of the coin as I now have - and hope I have described clearly and candidly above - then you can only conclude that you are depriving a boy of lifelong natural comfort and removing an important part of his natural sexual apparatus. The foreskin is an integral part of the sexual functioning and well-being of the penis. Nature created it for a reason, please please please do your son a favor and leave it there.

I believe my experience and story is an important one to be considered. Any suggestions as to where I canpost it to broaden parents understanding would be welcome.

I hope I have not infringed the 'pornographic' rules of this forum. The issue is defacto of a sexual nature. Keeping to pure medical terms puts the issue back in the realm of doctors, medicine, early childcare and science, and detaches the basic message that this is a very personal and intimate human body part that touches longterm day to day life of a future man. Its not about science, its about nature, good hygenic upbrining and sexual awareness. Its about future personal and shared human pleasures. It can impact the mind, and affect the future intimacy of relationships. Please stop and think about 'the big picture' of life before amputating this very personal part of your boy forever. He will not be sad for it, he will never say 'mum, why didnt you circumcise me', but if he wishes, for whatever reason, to be circumcised later, let him make that life call.

My social circle of male friends confirm that they would do anything rather then have their foreskins removed. I suspect all the other intact men in the world would do the same. If you are looking to cut your child because you think you are being a good mother to your baby, please look beyond the social pressures and perceived childcare and think about what you are really taking away. The majority of boys in the world have grown up just fine, and would defend their foreskins to the last ....


----------



## hakunangovi

JLUK,

Thank you for posting your story. It clearly illustrates how valuable a man's foreskin is, and how deep the loss of it can be. In fact, I believe that the only men who are O.K. with the aftermath of loosing their foreskin are those who had an issue with it. Often circumcision was the only option offered and they are unaware that other, less invasive procedures might well have solved their issue AND preserved their foreskin.


----------



## JLUK

Hakunangovi, this is indeed the gist of the feedback I am getting. I recently discussed with a man who had his foreskin removed 15 years ago because it was getting painfully tight. He was happy for the relief. He advised me to use alot more moisturiser during the day and in bed to use more lubrification to compensate the rawness. His comment was "its great I dont have to bother with foreplay anymore, just squirt the oil and off you go". Each to their own I guess. He did admit, once pushed, that he was having increasing loss of sensitivity to the point where he was not always able to achieve orgasm - "a different set of problems" as he put it.

My wife has been asking around her lady friends married to cut men. The impression she gets is that intimacy outside of intercourse does not seem as much of a priority.

Our intimacy before was colourful, without my foreskin it is now pretty much black and white. Perhaps more people then I imagined prefer life in black and white.

The 3 pillars of lasting love are essentially Passion, Intimacy and Committment. I do feel Intimacy, and consequently Passion, are challenged by the loss of my foreskin (when compared to "before"). So far my wife has been very supportive about adapting to our change, but this is a challenge I really dont appreciate, and I dont think she does either. Its certainly not a situation a man should take on lightly, and as you say, please please please at least consider alternatives aswell if your foreskin is not bringing you full comfort for whatever reason.


----------



## hakunangovi

JLUK, Your last post highlights some of the problems faced by circumcised men. I am a bit surprised that in the U.K. (where foreskins valued in general) many of your doctors view a foreskin as disposable and it's loss inconsequential, where, here in North America where no value is placed on the male prepuce, and many in the medical profession view one as a liability !!

From what I have read a circumcised man is at a huge disadvantage in terms of his nerve loss and the decrease in sensitivity. I seen it stated that a circumcised man's sex life will end (on average) about 10 years earlier than that of an intact man. I think it is very common for circumcised men to either have issues achieving an erection and/or ejaculation because of a penis that has lost feeling. The U.S. and Israel are reported to be the world's two highest (per capita) users of Viagra.

You also mentioned intimacy. An interesting study was conducted a few years ago: http://intactnews.org/node/131/1316710012/study-links-circumcision-personalirty-trait-disorder which is more pertinent to men circumcised in infancy.

The really sad part is that so many in the medical industry are either unaware or ignore the consequences on a man's sex life.


----------



## JLUK

Just so there is no doubt : I would sell my entire lifes belongings if it could buy back my foreskin and get back the life of pleasure and comfort I had before with my wife. Full body orgasms are now just a fond memory that we have failed to recreate since my being cut. My daily routine in one of moisturiser to try to retain sensitivty. 

Mothers must understand the whole picture - I only see them discussing initial pain fear and childcare. This is not where the discussion should be. They are holding in their arms a future man. Think for him.


----------



## mama24-7

hakunangovi said:


> JLUK, Your last post highlights some of the problems faced by circumcised men. I am a bit surprised that in the U.K. (where foreskins valued in general) many of your doctors view a foreskin as disposable and it's loss inconsequential, where, here in North America where no value is placed on the male prepuce, and many in the medical profession view one as a liability !!
> 
> From what I have read a circumcised man is at a huge disadvantage in terms of his nerve loss and the decrease in sensitivity. I seen it stated that a circumcised man's sex life will end (on average) about 10 years earlier than that of an intact man. I think it is very common for circumcised men to either have issues achieving an erection and/or ejaculation because of a penis that has lost feeling. The U.S. and Israel are reported to be the world's two highest (per capita) users of Viagra.
> 
> You also mentioned intimacy. An interesting study was conducted a few years ago: http://intactnews.org/node/131/1316710012/study-links-circumcision-personalirty-trait-disorder which is more pertinent to men circumcised in infancy.
> 
> The really sad part is that so many in the medical industry are either unaware or ignore the consequences on a man's sex life.





JLUK said:


> Just so there is no doubt : I would sell my entire lifes belongings if it could buy back my foreskin and get back the life of pleasure and comfort I had before with my wife. Full body orgasms are now just a fond memory that we have failed to recreate since my being cut. My daily routine in one of moisturiser to try to retain sensitivty.
> 
> Mothers must understand the whole picture - I only see them discussing initial pain fear and childcare. This is not where the discussion should be. They are holding in their arms a future man. Think for him.


Gentlemen, I'm truly sorry for how this practice has effected you. I sincerely appreciate your sharing your stories with the world.

I'm short for time, but wanted to mention two things, in case either of you were not aware. One - foreskin restoration. I think it's NORM-UK who has lots of info on that. If not, google, I bet, would help. Two - manhood. I believe this is a removable cover (washable maybe?) that can be used to protect the glans to reduce the likelihood of keratinization, and reduce it if it's already occurred.

Best wishes to you & your wives!
Sus


----------



## JLUK

Thank you mama24-7, that manhood website should be checked out by any expectant mother considering circumcision and who is still free from overbearing influences - read the testimonials, they tell the pityful story of what this does to a man - is this what a mother would want risking their boy being reduced to when he grows up..... Ive just ordered one of these frankly ridiculous socks in the hope it helps, but so sadly so .... what a crazy situation to be in.

http://manhood.mb.ca/manhood-restorer/


----------



## hakunangovi

JLUK said:


> Mothers must understand the whole picture - I only see them discussing initial pain fear and childcare. This is not where the discussion should be. They are holding in their arms a future man. Think for him.


SO TRUE - I often see mothers who are concerned about the pain that their baby will endure during the procedure, but the physical and psychological consequences that will affect that future man for the rest of his life, are not even on their radar!! What really infuriates me is that they do not seem to be acknowledged by most of the medical fraternity either.


----------



## JLUK

Regarding medical profession : Does anyone know of a Dr who, as an educated medical adult, freely chose to have his own healthy foreskin removed on the grounds of wanting a more hygienic penis and to reduce the risks of future illness ? These are the main arguments doctors use for promoting the cut, I believe. 

In other words, is there a Dr who really has "put his own money where his mouth is".

An honest view from such a man, if he can be found, on whether he thinks he is physically in a better place now would be very pertinent to this forum. He could be good council for us who are in regret or mourning.

I havnt found such a Dr yet.


----------



## hakunangovi

JLUK said:


> Regarding medical profession : Does anyone know of a Dr who, as an educated medical adult, freely chose to have his own healthy foreskin removed on the grounds of wanting a more hygienic penis and to reduce the risks of future illness ? .


No, I never have ! And you can bet that those champions of this barbaric custom, such as John Harvey Kellog, lived very contentedly with their own intact foreskins, all the while telling the world that every other male would be better off without it. Total hypocrisy.


----------



## Thammy24

I read a post about a Dr who not only had his foreskin removed but did it himself too.


----------



## jason smith

i was raped with a knife, tortured and mutilated the day of/after my birth, i remember, i'm not fu¢k!ng thankful.

how has being rape-torture-mutilated affected my life... is hard to put into words................... oh, but i have a picture that describes it pretty well.
my life was over before it began. if i were a girl, and my parents had used me as an ashtray to put out their cigarettes on, i bet "how it affected my life" wouldn't be something you would need to ask.


----------



## foreskin_is_normal

jason smith said:


> my life was over before it began.


I could have had a normal life if not for this one thing. I don't remember exactly what happened but I know something horrible happened. I was cheated out of a normal life.


----------



## foreskin_is_normal

JLUK said:


> Regarding medical profession : Does anyone know of a Dr who, as an educated medical adult, freely chose to have his own healthy foreskin removed on the grounds of wanting a more hygienic penis and to reduce the risks of future illness ?


It's morally hygienic. That's it. Puritans think sex is dirty so reducing pleasure is cleaner and hygienic. It's dirty to enjoy sex.


----------

