# Constant tantrums, how to teach self control and calming down skills?



## PeacemongerMom (May 8, 2011)

My son is five, he has tantrums all day long. Whenever anything big or small doesn't go his, he screams, makes threats, says hateful things, and throws things. He used to hit and kick, sometimes me, sometimes the wall, or the sofa, but he has almost completely stopped that. I don't even know when he did it last. For example, last night I was tired, didn't want to cook and went to get a pizza well he didn't want pizza, he wanted Mcdonald's. I was not getting Mcdonald's. So he screamed in the car, told me that he hated me, I'm a horrible lady, he is going to hit me and he is going to cut the pizza place in half. I will estimate the screaming went on five minutes and after that there was still a lot of mean comments and loud complaints. That's pretty typical, just take it and multiple it about 7 times a day.

I lean toward Unconditional Parenting, after reading Alfie Kohn I knew I wanted my son to do the right thing for the right reason, just doing the right thing for the wrong reason, like a bribe or fear of punishment wasn't good enough. I have tried ignoring the tantrums. I have tried to get him to work his anger out in other ways like jumping on the trampoline for example or hitting a pillow. When he is so anger, he doesn't want to calm down and there's no making him...which of course I guess it wouldn't really be calm if it was forced.

Then a used copy of P.E.T. found me. As I started reading, I loved it. It also talked about how rewards and punishments don't work in the long term. I haven't finished the book but it has to big points, one is active listening and the other is compromise for problem solving. A few days ago my son was ranting on about how he was going to punch me over something so minor I don't remember what it was. I said to him, You're angry, you're so angry you want to hit me. The authors premise is that when children have their feelings validated and they feel heard the strong feelings dissipate. Well it did. He ranted on with a few more words, looked a little confused, stopped in his tracks. Never had one of his tantrums been so quickly curbed. Hooray, success, right? Not quite. It seemed to have lost it's effect after only one use. The next time I used it, it had no effect and he kept right on screaming.

I also used the books problem solving technique. Find a solution you BOTH can accept, get the child in on generating ideas. Well my son will not contribute ideas. But anyway, it worked once. After breakfast I wanted him to brush his teeth and then go feed the cats. He wanted to feed the cats then brush his teeth. We discussed it and I decided that would be acceptable but he had to follow through. Sure enough he did, he even reminded me that he had to brush his teeth. But sometimes there is no compromise, like getting a toy at the store and going to mc donalds's for dinner. It's just no and he has to be able to accept that without a major breakdown.

He is going to kindergarden in the fall and I am really worried. He already has been picked on by kids. Some kids have said they don't like him and he's mean. This really hurts his feelings. I understand why the kids say this and they are probably not allowed to act that way. I'm fed up with them and need them to stop. I'm also building resentment for having to deal with this so frequently. He NEEDS self control and calming down skills. How do you teach these?

How would you handle this? What do you think about the mutual problem solving approach? Aren't there times when a kid just has to learn to deal?


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

I taught my DD some simple meditation style calming techniques right before she turned 5. We practiced a few times when everything was ok. Basically she was breathing out bad feelings (anger or sadness), slowly, and then breathing in good feelings (the love people have for you), using visualization to imagine the bad feelings leaving her body and the good ones coming in. It helped along with talking about appropriate ways to react to anger or upsetness when she was calm. She was over reacting when she got hurt or upset, not quite a tantrum but still pretty loud.

About 7 times a day seems like a lot. Is he getting at least 10 hours of sleep per day? Also his blood sugar could be low. Does it seem to happen more when he should be hungry?


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## mary934 (Mar 9, 2011)

' in the moment ' in the midst of frustration medidation , breathing etc is great . A good book is ' mindfulness for children ' . check for tiredness , not eating well - have plenty of healthy snacks and drink around

Problem solving means finding solutions that avoid frustration. Breathing helps with the symptoms, but does not solve problems. Sometimes giving him the language to deal with frustration - I am frustrated, diappointed with ..... , but at least ... . Also try and give kids a wider time horizon - see a weekly schedule , so if a play date is cancelled we have another one lined up at the end of the week. etc

I recommend looking at the Collaborative problem solving approach - CPS by Ross Greene . The latest editions of the explosive child . lost at school explain the approach and help with the scripts needed for cps. There are 3 useful sites - http://livesinthebalance.org , http://thinkkids.org and a blog with combines Alfie Kohn's Unconditional parenting with CPS - here is a collection of video clips http://tiny.cc/8z10l . The blog summarizes a lot of Dr Greenes Blog radio program - see plan b , drlling down for conerns etc

From sites mentioned - validate needs and concerns , not feelings . The 1st step is to gather info about the kid's concerns , drilling down concerns - not easy , takes 30-40 experiences so it is recommended plenty of one on one conversations , using dialog question - him speaking we listening , focusing on perspective taking , identifying concerns, problem solving of non-emotive , other peoples , kids problems. Kids lack skills and these are taught in the context of unmet concerns and unsolved problems in a proactive way , not in the moment

Again it is not easy , but every moment on the way there is learning. Older brothers, buddy , buddy tutors are also recommended.

The way to go is to check the paper work - the thinking skillsinventory / ALSUP assessed lacking skills and unsolved problem check list , the plan B cheat sheet , the videos , relax the environment by lowering the rope etc and start talking , I mean listening . Talking does not help because we do the talking and not the kid . It takes a lot of skill to get a kid to talk , again not easy

The resources are great , CPS is a process not a technique

I hope this helps

Mary


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

I think having that level of outrageous behavior ignored must be a maddening and surreal experience for him. On what planet do we get to behave like that with no consequence?

Also as a recovering yeller







that kind of explosive behavior is kind of addictive. It's a release.

Here there are MAJOR consequences for that kind of behavior. I will not be raged at. No way.

I also wonder if he's sleeping enough.

And also to add that there are consequences for behavior whether you like it or not. The consequence now is that his peers think badly about him. Personally I'd rather my son (say for example) miss a month of McDonald's for his behavior than lose friends.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

Add a hug while you're trying to get him to problem solve. It is counterintuitive after people telling you for years that you must stand firm and never give in, but this has really saved my relationship with my DD, 6, who was throwing similar tantrums from 3-5.5.

I tell her I notice that she's getting frustrated early on and ask her to slow down or tell me her problem. I give her a hug. Literally, sometimes she just needs a quick hug and a vent and it's over. I highly recommend The Explosive Child book for reading--I actually tried to send the author a fan email because it helped us when nothing else was working. It helped diffusing the situation become second nature to me and it did help her learn to be more flexible and find solutions. If you search on my screenname I have a thread about DD's tantrums and the I got a ton of great advice there.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PeacemongerMom*
> 
> He is going to kindergarden in the fall and I am really worried. He already has been picked on by kids. Some kids have said they don't like him and he's mean. This really hurts his feelings. I understand why the kids say this and they are probably not allowed to act that way. *I'm fed up with them and need them to stop.* I'm also building resentment for having to deal with this so frequently. He NEEDS self control and calming down skills. How do you teach these?


Honestly, it doesn't sound like UP is working well for him. For the bolded, why do the other kids need to stop? You state that you understand why the kids feel this way.

also, I don't really get how he's supposed to know how to behave if he's never taught how to behave. You don't need to bribe or punish to do that, just talk to him bout his behavior.


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## oaktreemama (Oct 12, 2010)

You know sometimes my biggest complaint about a lot of "gentle" parenting techniques is they often seem to exist and offer solutions only in the abstract. Real life parenting isn't ever abstract as you are finding out.

What are the consequences for hitting you or screaming at you or throwing things? Is he doing this to other kids and that is why they don't like him? Frankly from your post it sounds like UP is failing to meet his needs. You need to parent the kid in front of you.

I would start with working with your child to develop real consequences for his behavior, and real strategies for him to help manage his outbursts. I am a huge believer in ensuring kids understand what is ok behavior and what is not. I also firmly believe that kids need our help in learning to manage themselves.


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## Sanveann (Mar 19, 2007)

To be honest, I would probably consult a behavioral therapist. This is absolutely unacceptable behavior, and it sounds like having someone else help guide you through it may help. It might also help you see whether or not there may be additional issues going on.

We deal with frequent tantrums with my 4-year-old, who is on the spectrum. One of the things that first tipped us off that something was going on with him was that when he got worked up, NOTHING helped. Not holding him, not talking to him, not ignoring him, NOTHING. We would have two-hour tantrums over, say, a pair of socks. Learning from professionals how to interact with him when he was enraged has helped hugely -- now we have maybe one or two five-minute tantrums a day, if that. (Btw, I am NOT saying I think your son has ASD, but it may be possible there's some sort of underlying condition that is making things worse, and if there is, the sooner it's addressed, the better, for both of you!)


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## mom2grrls (Jul 24, 2008)

Is he getting enough sleep?


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Getting "fed up" with the other kids is not going to help at all. If he is mean to other children they will dislike him and that is a natural consequence that is inevitable. You need to help him understand that he cannot be mean to other kids and expect them to like him. You have unconditional love for him, but his peers don't. He may need a lot of guidance, rehearsal, and modeling of how to interact with his peers, because they have no interest at all in being treated the way you are. Why should they be?

I think there's nothing wrong with expressing to him how his behavior turns you off as well. It's not punishment; it's learning that bad behavior gets bad results in life. I don't think you need to be taking this kind of abuse.

Now, on further reading, are you fed up with the other kids or fed up with the tantrums? I can't understand your wording.


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## chaimom (Aug 22, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oaktreemama*
> 
> You know sometimes my biggest complaint about a lot of "gentle" parenting techniques is they often seem to exist and offer solutions only in the abstract. Real life parenting isn't ever abstract as you are finding out.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with this. I don't think it's "gentle" to let a child behave so poorly that his peers dislike him. I suggest 1-2-3 Magic or another parenting book that explains to you about consequences and how they help a child learn to manage his behavior.

.


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## PeacemongerMom (May 8, 2011)

I'm not fed up with the other children at all, like I said I understand their reaction to him. I'm fed up with his constant outbursts, sorry that I was unclear. I have talked to him and talked to him and talked to him, ad nauseum. I talk to him when he is calm. It makes no difference when he gets upset. Tonight we were playing miniature golf, he was having a great time until we got to the last hole. He didn't realize that the ball goes down the automatic return so when he went to retrieve it and it was gone, tantrum. He told me, it was my fault, he hated me. He was genuinely upset, real tears and all. He is so fatalistic in his thinking, it drives me mad. Everything is the last, permanently over, the worst case scenario, etc. In this case the game was over and the ball was gone but his thinking is always fatalistic. His pre k teacher told me that every time he had to put away and clean up his favorite activity it was a huge meltdown as if he was never going to get to use it again. Even though he used it everyday, multiple times a day. It is so frustrating because he is a very bright boy, surely he grasps this concept on a cognitive level.

I think he's stuck in a rut. He's trapped himself. He's reacted this way for so long, even though we have discussed other ways to deal with strong feelings, he can't stop himself. I thought it was interesting the poster who replied as a former yeller, she can say the yelling was a release. That's how I think it is with him. I work with children too, there is a toddler boy at work who is never angry or frustrated because as soon as he is, he bites another child, and all his negativity is released, he goes on his merry way. Obviously that is not an acceptable way to deal with emotions. What's interesting is this boy at work, if I intervene before he bites, he whines, moans, rocks, is visibly restless and agitated. He didn't get his bite fix. These negative coping mechanisms, such as biting or tantrums, become very strong habits.

I'm still not convinced he needs consequences, what he needs is to learn new coping methods, the tough part is breaking the old tantrum habit. His teacher used a reward program with him at school it worked for a week and a half. I was not surprised the success was short lived because that's not true motivation. I am conflicted because I have to agree that the way I'm currently doing things is not working. For those that say you would give your child consequences, what kind of consequences do you or would you use?


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## chaimom (Aug 22, 2007)

I have a 5 yo old, too. And it's hard to say what consequences I would use, because it seems like your son's reactions are so extreme when he doesn't get his way. It's almost like he needs a reset button or boot camp to reset his reactions.

Here are my thoughts:

Consequences help your son learn to control himself, which right now he hasn't had to do because he doesn't have consequences. If he can't watch tv because he was yelling at you to change the channel, he's going to learn to stop yelling at you for that. If his consequence is going to his room for hitting you, he's going to stop hitting you. Immediately, the consequence helps him realize his behavior wasn't OK-- and long-term, it helps teach him self control.

In addition to consequences, he needs positive reinforcement (not rewards). "Notice" him doing a behavior you want to reinforce. Say something like, "I noticed you got your shoes on when I asked. That was helpful." Or "I noticed you took your turn without complaining. That took a lot of patience." It's validating to him and I found it really worked to help my kids know what was expected of them when they were younger.

Specifically, if any of my kids called me or their siblings names or were as disrespectful as you describe, they would go to their rooms immediately. There wouldn't be any discussion about it. And no opportunity for compromise. It's an opportunity for them to think about better ways to communicate. And in our house, it would be OK to throw a tantrum-- just not in a place where it bothers everyone else. So if my son started yelling or whining, I would ask him to go to the other room because the yelling hurts my ears.

In the case of throwing a tantrum when having to put away a toy, it sounds like your son needs extra help with transitioning. I would remind him before he starts playing with the toy that he has xx minutes to play with it and that you'll need him to cooperate with that rule. Then when it's 5 minutes from time, I would remind him again but also say "and if you throw a tantrum (or can't cooperate nicely), you won't be able to play with the toy tomorrow." Then, if he throws the tantrum, he can't play with it next time.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

But how do you NOT have consequences? Isn't that like living in an alternate universe? So he has a giant fit about mini golf and you go "ok pet! let's carry on with our day!". How do you NOT go "omg we are not playing minigolf again until you're 7 if you can't get a grip" or "if you can't stop this we're spending the rest of the day at home". I don't understand how you can say "I'm not convinced he needs consequences". By deliberately avoiding consequences (besides the big ones like kids thinking he's a jerk!) you're keeping him stuck in this rut which is, I think totally unnatural. This whole no consequence thing is like a bizarre experiment gone wrong. Real life has consequences for behavior!

Now, if you told me that he was still explosive in the absence of a more logical approach to his behavior then I would definitely suggest a behavioral eval/therapist.


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## PeacemongerMom (May 8, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D_McG*
> 
> But how do you NOT have consequences? Isn't that like living in an alternate universe? So he has a giant fit about mini golf and you go "ok pet! let's carry on with our day!". How do you NOT go "omg we are not playing minigolf again until you're 7 if you can't get a grip" or "if you can't stop this we're spending the rest of the day at home". I don't understand how you can say "I'm not convinced he needs consequences". By deliberately avoiding consequences (besides the big ones like kids thinking he's a jerk!) you're keeping him stuck in this rut which is, I think totally unnatural. This whole no consequence thing is like a bizarre experiment gone wrong. Real life has consequences for behavior!
> 
> Now, if you told me that he was still explosive in the absence of a more logical approach to his behavior then I would definitely suggest a behavioral eval/therapist.


No I did not say OK pet let's carry on with our day, you said that I said that. I told him to stop whining that no one wanted to listen to that. I explained to him that balls have to go back or there wouldn't be any way to play the game.

Let's look at consequences imposed on kids. Kids who are dealt consequences are usually fairly well behaved in front of their parents or other adults these are the kids that get the pats on the backs and the accolades for being such good boys and girls. When no one is watching, listening or they think no adult knows what is going on they make some bad choices and exhibit some bad behavior. What have consequences really done for those kids? What have they learned, really?


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PeacemongerMom*
> 
> Let's look at consequences imposed on kids. Kids who are dealt consequences are usually fairly well behaved in front of their parents or other adults these are the kids that get the pats on the backs and the accolades for being such good boys and girls. When no one is watching, listening or they think no adult knows what is going on they make some bad choices and exhibit some bad behavior.


This has not been my experience, at all.


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Yes, this, exactly. Kids need to be taught appropriate social skills. Not all kids have the innate ability to just pick up on them. And part of unconditional parenting is PARENTING. I think sometimes, that part gets forgotten. You can still love and accept your child, but you also need to help him navigate the world. A child who is losing friends because of his behavior will not be a happy child. If you are sure there are no issues like autism at play, then you need to get on some good behavior modification. Every action has a consequence...would you rather the consequence of your child's behavior be you setting a limit, or him going to school and not having any friends? If it were me, I'd rather me set the limit than have that limit set by his peers. If a child gets away with raging to get what he wants, for 5 years, and then you send him to a place where people WILL impose limits on him whether you agree to them or not, he will be very very very confused. Or, he will be a very well behaved child there, and then continue to give you his worst behavior. I really do believe that children need limits and boundaries (even adults have boundaries...there are certain things that you are not allowed to do. If you do them, there are consequences for those actions. If adults were given the same reign that Unconditional Parenting gives children, there would be complete and utter chaos.). Kids crave limits. They don't have to be super strict and stifling, but they need to be there--children need to feel safe and secure and know what is expected of them...otherwise they get confused and anxious and begin to rage. As a parent, you need to figure out how you can give him the limits he needs while fostering creativity and personality. And if you don't do it, the school will...his peers will set those personal boundaries through bullying and teasing and witholding friendship...the school officials will set them through punishments and possibly expulsion if the violence was bad enough.

I strongly suggest a full psychological evaluation and medical evaluation to rule out autism, a psych condition, or a biological reason for his rage. And then seek out a behavior therapist or child psychologist that can help you both establish good boundaries and rules. Trust me...if you do not, and he attends school with that behavior, it will not take long before they too recommend an evaluation.

I also want to add that part of attachment parenting is listening to the child's cues. Your child is setting off clear cues that something is not right--that he is feeling angry or anxious or out of control and some need is not being met. I think that those cues are being ignored because of a fear of stifling him. He is crying out for something...listen to those cues.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chaimom*
> 
> Totally agree with this. I don't think it's "gentle" to let a child behave so poorly that his peers dislike him. I suggest 1-2-3 Magic or another parenting book that explains to you about consequences and how they help a child learn to manage his behavior.
> 
> .


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Every child makes bad choices some of the time. I'd rather have a child who makes a bad choice and learns from it, but is in general a well behaved, pleasant, happy child than one who is so full of range and anger and can't navigate the world. And this is coming from a parent who has a child with autism and a child with reactive attachment disorder--both conditions which have rages and the like as symptoms. I have to impose limits to keep those in check, and the kids need it.

Let's flip this around. What is YOUR kid learning? Because it seems like his constant raging due to lack of consequences IS actually having consequences...it's just now, you're not in control of those consequences. If you impose consequences, you can control the severety, the duration, and you can talk about them. Society has a way of imposing consequences all by itself, and they are not always going to be all nice and pretty ones. A 5 year old who can't have friends and is picked on because of his behavior will have more long-term nasty psychological effects than getting sent to his room for a break to calm himself down.

Add to it, the other consequences of this? His mom is constantly stressed out by his behavior, and so there is likely some tension between them which, for a young child, can cause a huge amount of insecurity. His body is in a constant state of fight or flight--an extremely unhealthy place for a body to be, which leads to chronic inflammation, digestion issues, psychological issues including anxiety and depression, etc.

So, there ARE consequences for his behaviors. And they aren't very gentle at all. There is not a single behavior that happens where there is not a consequence...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PeacemongerMom*
> 
> No I did not say OK pet let's carry on with our day, you said that I said that. I told him to stop whining that no one wanted to listen to that. I explained to him that balls have to go back or there wouldn't be any way to play the game.
> 
> Let's look at consequences imposed on kids. Kids who are dealt consequences are usually fairly well behaved in front of their parents or other adults these are the kids that get the pats on the backs and the accolades for being such good boys and girls. When no one is watching, listening or they think no adult knows what is going on they make some bad choices and exhibit some bad behavior. What have consequences really done for those kids? What have they learned, really?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I do the whole UP thing and my older dd had tantrums still at 5 - she stopped around 6 I think? - but she did stop without me needing to impose any consequences. And I'm pretty sure that it was just her temperament and not UP that caused the tantrums because the little one never has tantrums and I'm the same with her. And I was punished for having tantrums and I had them until I was 8. Some kids have tantrums longer than others.

I think kids learn thorugh tantrums and trying to stop them isn't as useful as trying to get them past that stage. For my older dd, I would briefly and calmly empathize when she had a tantrum, as in "you sound angry you didn't get X", and then just let her have her tantrum. I didn't get involved, I didn't feed the drama, it was her tantrum and she had it on her own. When the tantrum was over, I'd give her love and treat her the same as before the tantrum as as if there hadn't been a tantrum. And she did outgrow them. But anyway one thing they learn is that getting upset doesn't get you what you want, even if your parents want you to have it to - that sometimes things just don't go how we want. It's the concept of futility, and it takes some kids longer to get it than others. But he needs to not be able to blame you for things not going his way and understand that it's simply futility, so I would not set yourself up on "the other team" but present yourself on his side. "Oh, you wanted the toy from McDonald's. I wish you could have it too." If he places the blame on you, then it's still a case of trying to scream long enough unti you give in. If he undertands that some things simply aren't going to happen, that it's futile to get upset over some things, he'll learn to move on.

I would also look at sleep and diet. My older dd does much better with her behavior through the whole day right through to bedtime if she starts her day with a protein-based breakfast, like eggs, instead of a grain based breakfast, like cereal. And she has nothing sweet in the morning, so no pancakes or anything with syrup, because sweet things in the morning also cause her to have more trouble.

But at 9 she is very under control and happy and has lots of friends. She is still dramatic, but that's just who she is. Some kids are more intense and have tantrums longer, but they might still be learning this concept of futility.

Like I said - I had tantrums until I was 8, so I remember them. It wasn't fun. But I didn't understand that I couldn't always have what I wanted either. Some people never learn that, and then as adults flip out at people in the parking lot if they don't get the parking spot they had their eye on. It's a good lesson to learn and a big part of maturity.


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## NellieKatz (Jun 19, 2009)

I agree with what you are saying here, but only partially. I think that yes, if you are doing some kind of arbitrary punishment TO a kid, you may get the kind of sneakiness or rebellion that you describe. But to me, if my kid was freaking out at mini golf (and I saw it was a pattern and not just some one-off weird day he was having), to say "we're going home right now," put down the golf clubs, pile the family in the car and go home......that would (a) be a reasonable consequence, totally related to the offense, (b) be VERY memorable to the child, and (c) protect your boundaries and teach him what you are willing to tolerate. In other words if you're going to go to the trouble and expense of bringing the family to a fun event, you expect everyone to behave appropriately, or you won't do it. I don't mean he has to stuff his feelings, but he would have to vent his frustrated feelings in a way that didn't ruin the event for you & others in the area.

It wouldn't be some arbitrary thing you are doing TO him to change his behavior. You would be doing what YOU need to do, setting limits with what YOU are willing to put up with. There is a difference. I mean, if he can find someone willing to take him to fun places if he's going to have regular furious freakouts, more power to him. That person isn't you.

My son ran away from me, laughing, in the grocery store once. It was back when I was being a really bossy, jerky parent; I hadn't really got the hang of things yet. He was getting a huge kick out of running away and laughing at me. He was small enough where I could pick him up. When I did catch him, I left the small basket of groceries right on the ground, picked up my son and left the store. Now, I am sorry to the employees who were stuck putting those things away. I'd never done that before and never did it since. But my son never forgot that incident. Mama has some things she will NOT tolerate. 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PeacemongerMom*
> 
> Let's look at consequences imposed on kids. Kids who are dealt consequences are usually fairly well behaved in front of their parents or other adults these are the kids that get the pats on the backs and the accolades for being such good boys and girls. When no one is watching, listening or they think no adult knows what is going on they make some bad choices and exhibit some bad behavior. What have consequences really done for those kids? What have they learned, really?


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## mary934 (Mar 9, 2011)

Peacemongermom,

The responses you have received can be divided into a behaviorist philosophy or non-behaviorist - self determination theory SDT , a theory of human motivation on which Alfie Kohn's Unconditional Parenting is based and Collaborative problem solving approach -CPS. The basic assumptions as to children's behavior is very different , so the interventions differ.

Even if we were to get the right behavior through extrinsic motivation , it is unlikely that the message will be internalized - the kid is not behaving because he would not like to be a kid who hurts others , but is being taught to think what's in it for me - what will be done to me or what wiill I get. Consequences are important - how my behavior impacts on others. If we want kids to reflect on behavior and not just think that my mistake was being caught , we need to be unconditional and deal with issues directly and solve problems.

CPS is an approach designed to help parents and other care givers help their challenging children. Kids problems are not motivational - that we need to give kids consequences so they will ' wanna' behave appropriately . These kids know that what they are doing is wrong , they don't need consequences to teach them right from wrong. In any case most parents come to cps after seeing that traditional parenting does not work. These kids are motivated , they would prefer to do well, be successful and adaptive . Consequences do not teach skills. The best way to teach skills is to do so in the context of unsolved problems and unmet concerns and expectations and solve these problems in a mutually satisfying way.

here are lists showing the difference in parenting phiosophies between CPS , SDT=Unconditiona parenting and behaviorism.

*Typical View of Difficult Children:*


Guiding Philosophy: "Children do well if they want to".
Explanation: Children's difficult behavior is attention-seeking or aimed at coercing adults into "giving in".
Goal of treatment: Induce children to comply with adult directives.
Tools of treatment: Use of reward and punishment programs to give children incentive to improve behavior.
Emphasis: Reactive focus on management of problematic behavior after it has occurred.

*Dr. Greene's CPS View:*


Guiding Philosophy: "Children do well if they can".
Explanation: Children's difficult behavior is the byproduct of a learning disability in the domains of flexibility, adaptability, and frustration tolerance.
Goal of treatment: Teach children lacking cognitive and emotional skills.
Tools of Treatment: Teach children and adults how to work towards mutually satisfactory solutions to problems underlying difficult behavior.
Emphasis: Proactive focus on solving and preventing problems before they occur.

*Goals Achieved By Each Plan *

Plan A = parent imposing will , using consequences, rewards and punishments

Pan C = parent putting expectations in the meantime on the shelf

Plan B= collaborative problem solving

* Pursue Expectations Reduce Meltdowns Teach Skills*

* limit setting *


*Plan A* *yes * no no
*Plan C* no* yes * no
*Plan B* *yes yes yes* 




 UNCONDITIONALCONDITIONAL*Focus*Whole child (including reasons, thoughts, feelings)Behavior*View of Human Nature*Positive or balancedNegative*View of Parental Love*A giftA privilege to be earned*Strategies*"Working with" (Problem solving)"Doing to" (Control via rewards, consequences and punishments


Your interventions will be based on your understanding of your child's challenges . We need to understand the underlying assumptions of each approach .

Mary


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## chaimom (Aug 22, 2007)

I usually just state my opinion on these kinds of posts and move on, but the chart above is annoying. It's very misinformed. Where's the empirical evidence for it? The statements are ridiculous.

Peacemongermom, my kids have consequences that are kind, and they've learned to act in ways-- even at age 5-- in which their peers like them and so do their peer's parents (even when I'm not around). Yes, other people tell me my kids are polite and kind. Their teachers love them. It's not because my kids fear I'm going to put them in a time out. LOL. (That hasn't happened in years, but then again, they themselves don't think tantrums are appropriate). They've learned what's OK behavior and they're intrinsically kind, empathetic people. And on top of that, they're a joy to be around.


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## dovey (May 23, 2005)

I have a 5 year old daughter who sometimes tantrums daily. I have a 7 year old son who has probably had about two tantrums in his entire life. Thus, I don't believe that tantruming is necessarily a result of parenting techniques, (i.e. unconditional or consequence-based.)

Here is what helps my daughter. She has been doing much better since I have realized what she needs:

1. Not being hungry or tired.

2. Feeling like I am pleased with her.

3. Having useful (and not overwhelming) work to do (i.e. completing chores, homeschool projects, cleaning, cooking, gardening)

4. Listening to specific stories about my own tantrums that I had as a child - what caused them, how my parents reacted, how I felt

5. Steady rhythm to the days. She does well with a routine, that way she knows what to expect....breakfast, play, chores, homeschool, play outside, chores, lunch, rest, homeschool, chores, dinner, get ready for bed, sleep

Hope that helps. It's so easy sometimes to take the tantrums personally.


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## PeacemongerMom (May 8, 2011)

I'd rather have a well intentioned child, a child with pure motivations, than strictly a well behaved child. Really, my top parenting priority is not to have the strangers in line behind me at the grocery store stop me to tell me what a well behaved child I have. Although it has happened, obviously not when he's having a tantrum, nonetheless it's not my barometer of successful parenting. I'm not going to raise a child who asks himself before every action, what's in this for me? I do not want to sacrifice values for behavior. Nor do I want to sacrifice good behavior either.

He does have friends and he has been invited to their houses and other places by their parents but he has also had children tell him things like they didn't like him and he is bad. We talk about good behavior vs bad behavior, what's expected of him and how his actions effect himself and others. We talk about why some children don't want to be his friend and what he can do to change that. Like I said we talk a lot about this but it doesn't not help in the moment of his frustration or anger.

I'm not afraid to send him to his room or set limits for fear of hurting his feelings or stifling him. I don't think those methods are the most effective in the long term. In the short term, of course it would be effective. It would be much easier to say do this or that will happen. That comes at a cost too. I've tried it, guess what happened, he would stop himself and ask me " If I do x am I going to time out?" and " If I do x will I still be able to use the computer?" What is that accomplishing? It's teaching him to ask what is in it for me. It's elevates that status and significance of material things, privileges like the TV or computer. It teaches him that these things material privileges are the things of the most value. That is not at all what I want to teach him.

Of course you are right that society has its own consequences. I know this, which is why I am concerned and why I want to help him learn to regulate his emotions, have more self control, and act in kinder,more gentle ways.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyRae*
> 
> Every child makes bad choices some of the time. I'd rather have a child who makes a bad choice and learns from it, but is in general a well behaved, pleasant, happy child than one who is so full of range and anger and can't navigate the world. And this is coming from a parent who has a child with autism and a child with reactive attachment disorder--both conditions which have rages and the like as symptoms. I have to impose limits to keep those in check, and the kids need it.
> 
> ...


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## mary934 (Mar 9, 2011)

Chaimom,

Your emotional response ( chai= 18 in hebrew ) does not exempt you from presenting a rational argument. The charts are a presentation of the different views of children and underlying philosophies of behaviorist vs SDT/CPS theories , no need for empirical evidence. As far as the effects of consequences on internalization and intrinsic motivation there is over 30 years of research by Deci and Ryan and others Check the Self determination theory site or read Alfie Kohn's books Punished by Rewards and Unconditional Parenting with the pages of footnotes. For me the theory makes good sense , respectable and fosters moral growth.

Marylin Watson a teacher explains it well and this applies to parents as well

In an illuminating passage from her recent book Learning to Trust (2003), Marilyn Watson explained that a teacher can make it clear to students that certain actions are unacceptable while still providing "a very deep kind of reassurance - the reassurance that she still care about them and [is] not going to consequence, punish or desert them, even [if they do] something very bad." This posture allows "their best motives to surface," thus giving "space and support for them to reflect and to autonomously engage in the moral act of restitution" - that is, to figure out how to make things right after doing something wrong. "If we want our students to trust that we care for them," she concludes, "then we need to display our affection without demanding that they behave or perform in certain ways in return. It's not that we don't want and expect certain behaviors; we do. But our concern or affection does not depend on it."

Imposing consequences undermines reflection and subsequent moral growth. Check the ' Discipline without stress ' approach which focuses on helping kids reflect on the impact of their behavior

I don't know your situation but I assume that despite the consequences your kids are more than Ok. Some kids are more easily wired than others so I don't give their parents any credit.

If we forget about moral development and focus just on behavior , consequences won't do the job when it comes to challenging kids who lack skills.

As a human being , and kids are also human beings with feelings why would we or kids want parents to consequence us - to do to us , rather than ' working with us ' to solve problems.

The method of consequences, withdrawing privileges is essentially negative: I can't communicate with you, and so I'll hurt you if you don't mind me. The positive counterpoint is: We all make mistakes, and you can trust me to help you do better in the future.


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## oaktreemama (Oct 12, 2010)

Quote:


> If we forget about moral development and focus just on behavior , consequences won't do the job when it comes to challenging kids who lack skills.
> 
> As a human being , and kids are also human beings with feelings why would we or kids want parents to consequence us - to do to us , rather than ' working with us ' to solve problems.


Which is why I incorporate both consequences AND teaching my son ways to handle his emotions that don't involve tantrums, hitting, kicking, and throwing things.


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

With all due respect, my goal in parenting is not to get comments from the person behind me in line too. But a child who is constantly making a parent angry or stressed out by bad behavior is also often not a very happy child. Bad behavior is not usually something that makes a child happy. A child typically enjoys making good decisions. And I do not want to raise a spoiled snot of a child...I don't care what other parents think of my child--I want us all to enjoy eachother's company, and nobody can enjoy a person who behaves in a selfish, rageful, or bratty manner. I don't act that way to my children because they would not want to be in my presence...and I don't expect that they behave that way to me. Being able to be in a room and interact with other people in a polite and well mannered way is an important social skill. My barometer of successful parenting is if I can raise my children to be happy, productive, educated, self-sufficient, and able to maintain healthy relationships, and be self motivated to do all of that.

And EVERY person asks 'what's in it for me'...no person is so altruistic that they do everything for other people. Internal motivation IS what's in it for you. Why do you clean your house, make healthy food choices, work, etc. Because all of those are beneficial to you. Why don't you just walk into a store and take what you want from it? Why don't you drive 30 mph over the speed limit? Why don't you just walk into your neighbor's house, sit on his couch, and watch some tv while your neighbor's at work? Because none of that is beneficial to you and the consequences of doing such would not only create a social stigma but would result in something that provides you with a good level of discomfort.

To teach him self control, you have to create an environment that fosters control. Without limits, one is out of control. You can not control yourself without limits. He needs some limits set to know where his boundaries are. Otherwise, what is he trying to control? Right now, he has free reign to act as he wishes without perceived consequences. Self control is about knowing what you can do and where those boundaries are. You want him to use self control but you don't want to limit him so that he can develop it. You want him to control his behavior but you don't want to have any perceived boundaries to know what behaviors are acceptable. You don't want him to tantrum because it's not an acceptable behavior, but you don't want to teach him behavior limits because you don't want him to act according to what other people think. You want him to act altruistically without asking 'what's in it for me', but you don't want him to consider other people's perceptions. Why should he avoid tantruming then? It's WORKING for him! We'd likely all kick and scream and rage to get what we want, but we don't because it's not a socially acceptable behavior. Sometimes, what other people think IS important. Your child does not live in a vacuum....he lives in a society.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PeacemongerMom*
> 
> I'd rather have a well intentioned child, a child with pure motivations, than strictly a well behaved child. Really, my top parenting priority is not to have the strangers in line behind me at the grocery store stop me to tell me what a well behaved child I have. Although it has happened, obviously not when he's having a tantrum, nonetheless it's not my barometer of successful parenting. I'm not going to raise a child who asks himself before every action, what's in this for me? I do not want to sacrifice values for behavior. Nor do I want to sacrifice good behavior either.
> 
> ...


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## PeacemongerMom (May 8, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oaktreemama*
> 
> Which is why I incorporate both consequences AND teaching my son ways to handle his emotions that don't involve tantrums, hitting, kicking, and throwing things.


How do you teach him that? What kinds of things do you do to teach him to handle his emotions?


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## oaktreemama (Oct 12, 2010)

Quote:


> How do you teach him that? What kinds of things do you do to teach him to handle his emotions?


Here are a few examples of what we have been doing.

My son was biting at daycare. It was awful. He once bit three different kids in one day. We talked a lot with his head teacher and came up with several ways of helping ds learn to control his biting. At daycare they worked very hard at identifying the times/causes for his biting and doing their best to avoid putting my son in those situations (other kids pushing him, crowded doorways, just before lunch, trying to take a coveted toy, etc). At home we role played and talked about gentle touches and that teeth are for food and not our friends.

We did our best to prevent the biting first by understanding what was triggering the biting, then having a consequence for the biting should it happen (no more playtime for a bit to remove him from the bitee), and finally all the while working on helping ds manage his emotions when he wasn't emotional. And that is huge. Once the child is over wrought, there is no learning going on. In three weeks or so the biting was extinguished. No shaming, no yelling. Just clear expectation from us, along with lots of skillset work to help ds.

Tantrums happen here as well. To help mitigate them I tell my ds ourt plans every day and several times throughout the day I remind him of what we are doing and why. I always give him tons of transition time. I remind him of expectations of behavior in certain situations and when he can let loose. I don't expect him to somehow "know" what is ok and what is not. He needs my help to navigate some situations and as his Mom that is my job. He can run and scream in our backyard, but not at the library. The one time he did that at the library we left immediately. The one time he did it at a restaurant his Daddy took him home. And right now we actually aren't eating out much because his behavior is a bit iffy. And that's ok. There is nothing wrong letting certain activities go by the wayside during intense times in a child's life.

But to me, all this stuff is interwoven with everything else. Discipline is part and parcel of every day life. It isn't a bad thing at all.


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## Sanveann (Mar 19, 2007)

Quote:


> I'd rather have a well intentioned child, a child with pure motivations, than strictly a well behaved child. Really, my top parenting priority is not to have the strangers in line behind me at the grocery store stop me to tell me what a well behaved child I have. Although it has happened, obviously not when he's having a tantrum, nonetheless it's not my barometer of successful parenting. I'm not going to raise a child who asks himself before every action, what's in this for me? I do not want to sacrifice values for behavior. Nor do I want to sacrifice good behavior either.


To be honest, doing things SOLELY out of pure motivation and not because of "what's in it for me" is not something that many adults have mastered yet, let alone little children  We go for an approach of "teach good motivations, but back up with consequences." For example, we want our kids to treat our pets gently, because treating animals is the right thing to do ... and I think the majority of the time, that IS why they treat them nicely ... but I'm sure it's added motivation to know that kitty will scratch or Mommy won't allow them to pet him, if they're too rough.

Quote:


> Tantrums happen here as well. To help mitigate them I tell my ds ourt plans every day and several times throughout the day I remind him of what we are doing and why. I always give him tons of transition time. I remind him of expectations of behavior in certain situations and when he can let loose. I don't expect him to somehow "know" what is ok and what is not. He needs my help to navigate some situations and as his Mom that is my job.


This has worked well for us, too. It helps my oldest (4) a LOT to know the expectations before we go somewhere. "Now, remember, when we're at the store, Mommy wants you to stay close, to hold onto the cart, and to use a quiet voice. If you don't do those things, we'll have to leave." On rare occasions, we'll add a tiny reward at the end: "Wow, you listened SO well today! Why don't we go pick out a Hot Wheels for you?" Not enough so that it's a regular expectation or anything, but just a little reinforcer.


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## amberskyfire (Sep 15, 2007)

Someone may have mentioned this, but I'm pressed for time, so I couldn't read but a few replies. Sorry if this has been said.

Have you had him tested for Aspergers? It's high-functioning autism where the person appears normal in every way, but they may have some quirks about their behavior. One of the biggest markers of this is inability to deal with change or anything unexpected. If he's expecting something to go one way and it doesn't, a person with Aspergers will often have a meltdown. My husband has Aspergers and this is his big problem. If he doesn't get his way or if we deviate from his usual schedule, he will completely lose it and may even have a toddler-like temper tantrum.

It's just something to consider. I don't mean to scare you at all. Aspergers isn't scary.  In fact, no one even knew he had it until a couple of years ago.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

*My short answer:*

OP -- it sounds like you have some fairly concrete things that you'd like your son to learn: You'd like him to learn to regulate his emotions so that he doesn't melt down so often, and so that he can recover from setbacks more easily.

The question is: How can he learn that? Honestly, if I had the answer to that, I'd be writing up the book right now and marketing it. It depends a lot on the child, how they learn and how they process information. Our son learns really well through playing and acting things out. when he was younger, it was with his stuffed animals. Dd learns really well through stories and listening. How does your son learn? It sounds like he's fairly physical -- have you tried yoga or breathing exercises? It will take a lot of practice at age 5, but it can work. (I would not do things that ramp him up more, like hitting a pillow. He needs to learn other outlets for that anger.)

Another thought is: The tantrums seem to be a symptom, rather than the problem. Can you figure out what the problem is? Transitions seem to be a big problem. What else? Several people have suggested looking at sleep and nutrition. I would second that. My highly dramatic child is 10x worse when she's tired or hungry. I'd also look at food dyes/additives, and possibly dairy/soy/gluten if just paying attention to sleep and keeping him fed doesn't help.

If his skills at self-regulation and transitions do not develop in the next year or so, then I might seek an evualation.

*My much longer musings as the parent of a child who has frequent tantrums*

There are many factors that come in to play here:

*Development*

The other thing to remember is that he's a young 5. Some of this is developmentally appropriate behavior, just a bit 'more' -- so the angry language is very very typical of this age. They're learning the power of words and they tend to over do it. They are very black and white thinkers. This too, is typical. They're either the best at things or the absolute worst. Some of his inability to think of alternative solutions is also developmental. When a 5 year old is in the midst of a melt down, they're not going to be a very flexible thinker. (Heck, a 35 year old in the midst of an intense emotional time isn't going to be a flexible thinker either!) The problem solving has to happen at other times.

A good example of this: Dd was having increasing difficulty getting up in the morning to get ready for school. Part of the problem was that she wasn't getting to bed in time, and so we, as the parents, had to address this. She needed more sleep. But, I also asked dd. I don't remember what I said exactly, but I told her the behavior that was problematic, and asked her what she thought the problem was/what would help. Her reply was "I want a few minutes to snuggle with you." So, instead of insisting that she get up right at 7:15, she now climbs in bed with me for 5 minutes and dh comes back 5 minutes later. She's not always cheerful, but it's a definite improvement. Two years ago (dd is 7), this would not have been possible. She didn't have the ability to reflect on a situation and figure out what might help. Now that doesn't mean we didn't try, but it did mean that we, as parents did a lot more of the suggesting.

*Temperament*

Parenting is only part of it. I have one child who is incredibly self-controlled and always has been. Seriously, when he was 3, he was having a tantrum while his baby sister slept. I said to him, "If you wake up your sister, I'm going to be really really mad." So, he had his entire tantrum at a whisper! I was stunned. His younger sister, on the other hand, sounds a lot like your child. She's highly dramatic. Very intense. Not only that, but she takes a long time to process things. A long, long time. Just tonight we had a minor meltdown. Why? Because her brother has earned an ice cream party by doing something exceptional at school. Dd was upset, not because ds got an ice cream party, but because three weeks ago, the first graders didn't get served ice cream at lunch like they were supposed to. The injustice of it all came back to her and she was sobbing.









*Asynchronous Development*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PeacemongerMom*
> 
> Tonight we were playing miniature golf, he was having a great time until we got to the last hole. He didn't realize that the ball goes down the automatic return so when he went to retrieve it and it was gone, tantrum. He told me, it was my fault, he hated me. He was genuinely upset, real tears and all. He is so fatalistic in his thinking, it drives me mad. Everything is the last, permanently over, the worst case scenario, etc. In this case the game was over and the ball was gone but his thinking is always fatalistic. His pre k teacher told me that every time he had to put away and clean up his favorite activity it was a huge meltdown as if he was never going to get to use it again. Even though he used it everyday, multiple times a day. *It is so frustrating because he is a very bright boy, surely he grasps this concept on a cognitive level.*


And maybe it's because he is such a bright boy that this is more problematic than for other children. When the world does not match your idea of how it should be, life is very difficult indeed. The brighter you are, the tougher this difference can be because the difference between what you think and what you can do is greater. This asynchonicity is very frustrating indeed. One of my children reacted to it by simply not trying something until he knew he could do it, and the other reacted to it by raging against the world. The former is certainly 'easier' to deal with, but is it a good strategy in the long run? My more asynchronous (read academically more advanced) child is definitely more upset by her asynchronicity.

*Fewer choices, less control = happier child*, sometimes.

When my kids are going through a rough patch, sometimes they need fewer choices and less control. I suppose a more positive way of putting it would be: They need more certainty.

Making choices or coming up with solutions can be stressful. One day last week, dd was tired and cranky in the morning (yes, there's a pattern here we need to deal with). She didn't want toast or cereal for breakfast, but she couldn't think of what to have. After a few minutes, I went to the kitchen, got her a cheese stick and brought it up to her. She ate it, was able to make decisions again and life was good. But at that moment, she needed me to step in and take over.

*Responses to specific suggestions/situations*

Here's my read on the mini-golf session:

1. It was the end of the mini-golf so he was tired, and it was a transition to a new activity, which you and others have noted is hard.

2. He was surprised and probably disappointed that his ball disappeared.

3. He overreacted to this disappointment and had a tantrum.

What I would have done is plopped him on the nearest park bench until he's calm enough to take a hug. Then I would have asked him to make amends to the people that he hurt with his words. My kids are allowed to give a hug, say I'm sorry or do something else (get an ice pack, if it's physical, make a card/picture if it's not.).

Then I would have started brainstorming. What could I do differently next time? Prepare him for the fact that the ball will disappear? Explain to him where the ball goes? Let him know what's happening next? Bring a snack to have at hole 9? Realize that he's not ready for mini golf and try again next year?

But really, if the tantrum is over in 5 minutes or so, I wouldn't do much more than that.

*When a child is in full melt down mode, it's not a teachable moment.*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D_McG*
> 
> But how do you NOT have consequences? Isn't that like living in an alternate universe? So he has a giant fit about mini golf and you go "ok pet! let's carry on with our day!". How do you NOT go "omg we are not playing minigolf again until you're 7 if you can't get a grip" or "if you can't stop this we're spending the rest of the day at home".


I'm confused here -- how will saying "we're not going to play minigolf again until you're 7" help him learn the skills he needs? I'm not sure quarantining mom and child at home is really going to teach him the skills he needs. I'm not saying to ignore the tantrum, but I am suggesting that the tantrum is a symptom, not a problem. The skills he needs for self regulation need to be taught at a different time, and then gradually applied.

Now, it could well be that we would go home after an incident like this, but the reason would be because I, as a parent, have judged that my child needs to be home. Not as a punishment. If he's too tired or overstimulated, home might be the best place.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dovey*
> 
> I have a 5 year old daughter who sometimes tantrums daily. I have a 7 year old son who has probably had about two tantrums in his entire life. Thus, I don't believe that tantruming is necessarily a result of parenting techniques, (i.e. unconditional or consequence-based.)
> 
> ...










Beautifully said.

Remember H.A.L.T: Hunger, Anger, Lonely, Tired. If you've addressed those things and your child is still melting down, then I think you're entitled to send them to their room (or walk to yours) and say: deal.


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## PeacemongerMom (May 8, 2011)

Lynn S,

that was a great reply. Thank you for the all the suggestions. I would love to experiment with taking things out of his diet but his diet is so limited already, he's such a picky eater, I fear I would have to starve him. I have tried breathing and counting to five, sometimes it will work, after a minute or so, he'll come down, hug me and start to cry or relax and become more flexible and cooperative. Those times are rare. I haven't tried yoga but previously he was in a preschool that had yoga class and he was not really keen on it but it could be worth trying again. I'm going to look for kids yoga videos or pose cards. I love what you said about sometimes they need less choices and when he is more stable I can return to giving more choices and problem solving.

Amber, it's funny you mention Asperger's. He has been evaluated by a private child psychologist and by the public early intervention services, neither could find anything " on paper". Private psychologist mentioned possible ADD without the hyperactivity or Asperger's. He said he has a few traits of Asperger's but not enough for a diagnosis. He said people could have traits of something and not have " it". He also said don't get hung up on a diagnosis, you treat the symptoms not the diagnosis. My son went to a special needs preschool and his teacher who is a certified teacher with 30 yrs experience working with special needs population, she told me in her opinion it is not aspergers. She and the school psychologist mentioned the possibility of him being gifted.


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## amberskyfire (Sep 15, 2007)

My daughter went through a psychotic time where I thought maybe she had Aspergers like her dad (she doesn't and neither does her sister) until we discovered it was red food dye that had been added to something we didn't think it was in (supposedly "natural" dried papaya). Who knew? I'm glad we found out what it was. Everything has been fine since we cut that out. I hope you figure out what works for you guys.


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## Sanveann (Mar 19, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PeacemongerMom*
> 
> Amber, it's funny you mention Asperger's. He has been evaluated by a private child psychologist and by the public early intervention services, neither could find anything " on paper". Private psychologist mentioned possible ADD without the hyperactivity or Asperger's. He said he has a few traits of Asperger's but not enough for a diagnosis. He said people could have traits of something and not have " it". He also said don't get hung up on a diagnosis, you treat the symptoms not the diagnosis. My son went to a special needs preschool and his teacher who is a certified teacher with 30 yrs experience working with special needs population, she told me in her opinion it is not aspergers. She and the school psychologist mentioned the possibility of him being gifted.


My son is "probably on the spectrum," but the professionals we've been working with all feel that if he is, he's too high-functioning and too young to say for sure. (It took a LOT of evaluations to find out what was going on with him, as he presents as a very neurotypical kid at first. We know now that he has sensory processing disorder and low muscle tone, along with the psssible ASD.) However, we are using a lot of strategies for ASD kids in dealing with him anyway, and they seem to be working well. It might help to look into strategies for dealing with kids for Asperger's or similar issues to see if they might help your son as well.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

It's way late and I need to go to bed, but I wanted to toss out a couple of reading suggestions:

Kids, Parents & Power Struggles by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka -- good book overall

Sleepless in America - Kurcinka -- it's amazing the connection between sleep and behavior

The Explosive Child by Ross Greene - specifically for explosive kids

The Out of Sync Child by Carol Kranowitz or Sensational Kids by Lucy ****** -- about sensory processing disorder

I've got a 'quirky' kid who's close to the autism spectrum, but not there (and the older he gets, the clearer it becomes to me that he's not on the autism spectrum). He had sensory issues, and occupational therapy was extremely helpful for him in learning to regulate. I just toss that out there (along with the books on sensory stuff) to see if that's a possibility for your son. Sensory Processing Disorder (SPD) is a disorder of regulation (ds was hypersensitive to anything and was constantly in flight or fight mode (usually flight)). The fact that your son is also a very picky eater makes me wonder about sensory issues. ADHD is another disorder where self-regulation is at the core. However, it's also perfectly possible that your son is within the range of typical, just on the intense side of it.

A lot of the strategies designed for kids on the autism spectrum or kids with ADHD work well with typical kids too, so it's something you can try. I'm convinced that every child needs more sensory input than they're getting in the modern world. Our son benefited from specific coaching on behavior and social skills in a way that our daughter (as intense as she is) has never needed.


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