# Anyone else ever feel this way?



## painted horse (Jul 18, 2003)

I suspect I'm not the only one who has felt this, and continues to feel this way for now, but I really feel like evey pregnant mother's worst nightmare. It is incredibly difficult for me to feel comfortable around pregnant women right now. Just the normal chatty stuff that pregnant women and mother's everywhere seem to share: "Is this your first? How far along are you? Boy or girl?" Blah blah blah.......I find myself keeping quiet for the most part. I mean, what pregant woman wants to hear about how my 2nd child was stillborn? I guess I'm just trying to be sensitive to their situation. Sure, I could focus on just my 1st pregnancy, but that totally ignores Sophie's pregnancy and birth, and I guess I'm even less comfortable doing that. And yet, there is a part of me that want to shout at them "Don't be naive! Don't think it can't happen to you! It happened to me.....the worst thing that can happen, happened to me!" I feel like a monster sometimes, a freak. It's hard not to feel that way sometimes. There is just no place in our culture for dead babies. I'm sorry, I don't mean for that to sound harsh - but it is as if our culture wants to ignore the fact that babies sometimes die - it is not always pretty dresses and cute jumpers and clever looking shoes and soft pastels. Sometimes it is grief and rage and an anguish
so deep its hard to bear. And when the worst thing does happen to you - well, I sometimes find it hard not to feel marginalized in some way. Kind of "disenfranchised" from the whole "pregnancy community", if you see what I mean. "Hmmmmm.......now her baby died........where should we put her?" Does that make sense?

And then to have these pregnant women complain about their discomforts! That can be maddening! I would give alot, quite alot, to have an achy back and a huge appetite and be hating the heat even more than usual......>sigh<.........It's not that I'm unhappy that their pregnant......It's just that I'm terribly terribly sad that my baby, my Sophia, didn't live.......

I have a friend who just had a baby girl, but while she was pregnant I was fine with taking about it......and that's because she had lost a baby 1 pregnancy previous to this one. She's been a good source of support for me. And that's because she knows what its like.......because the worst thing that could happen, happened to her too......

Thanks for letting me vent. Its just hard sometimes not to feel like I'm the embodiment of some "Dark Mother" aspect - really living that feeling of the Womb being a cradle of Life - yet also capable of bringing about Death as well - that kind of Creation/Destruction motiff. It is a powerful feeling to own, and one that I'm still working on integrating in my day-to-day life.

It's been 5 months since we lost Sophie - what a long haul its been.

Thanks again for letting me vent. I hope that all of you are well, and finding peace when you need it.

Here's to all our Spirit Babies, and our ones here on Earth too......

Jen


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## wilkers8 (Mar 22, 2004)

This topic absolutely drives me insane...here's a situation I was put in.

I went to get a pedicure. Pedicure, a place for relaxation. Not this time, a 8 month pregnant woman stay two chairs down from me and proceeded to talk about all of those exact things for over an hour. I was in tears by the time she left and wanted to scream "stop complaining, my son just died!!!!!" However, then we the mourning mothers think about making them comfortable...this drives me nuts, why are people not thinking about making ME comfortable!

Sorry, don't have any answers but you are not alone. I can't even pick up a pregnancy book because I get so mad that there are not topics about loss in them.


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## HaveWool~Will Felt (Apr 26, 2004)

Today marks 4 months since Gracie was born and as Sophia, didn't live. I am sorry that are babies aren't here. I am sorry that all of us mamas are here because our babies have died.
Even having two children alive, ages 5 & 3...I feel this way too. Working with women, pregnant and some who want to terminate...this is hard....
I really don't have a lot to say anymore about it. It simply gets me really in a crappy place...
I just wanted to share that I understand where you are. I believe, for me, that regardless if I had my two boys or not, I would still have difficulty with this topic...the fact is that our baby's are dead...theirs aren't. And unless they have had a child die...then they have no idea how we feel.
I never thought that part of my story would be that I am a mother to two living children and two that aren't. One that was born full term and one that wasn't...







I don't get it sometimes...I just don't.

Love to you mama


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## babycarrier (Apr 2, 2004)

Love to you momma's


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## painted horse (Jul 18, 2003)

Wilkers - Obviously I can relate; and what you said about making other people comfortable, instead of them making us feel comfortable - Aarrgghh!!!!!
This too has driven me to distraction - I think that I'm just now coming into actually "owning" the experience, if you know what I mean. Really allowing myself the freedon to feel whatever I need to feel. And I think, more importantly, finding ways to incorporate Sophia into conversations. I've about reached the point where I ready to essentially say "I have a wonderful son, and I have a wonderful daughter who died at birth." And if it makes them twich - Oh the f*** well!!!! I'm definately tired of trying to make other people "comfy" around my pain, as well as around my joy. As much as I despise the fact that Sophie didn't live, I'm joyfull that I was pregnant with her and got at least the 39 weeks with her that I did. I'm grateful that I got to hold her. That fact can make people twichy too, I think. By the way, darlin', don't you have another "bun in the oven"







I've been following your journal, although I haven't responded yet, and I am VERY HAPPY for you!!!!!! I'm so glad you are journaling with us!!!! I love reading it......and it's great inspiration for when I decide to try again....!!!!

Jackie - thank you for your feedback as well. I love hearing about Gracie when you share stories and your feelings about her.

farmlife - thanks so much for your support.







: to you, sweetie!

Thanks everyone for responding, and for making me feel like I'm not so alone.







s: to everyone!!!!!

Jen


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## BinahYeteirah (Oct 15, 2002)

bs"d








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I don't know where you ladies are right now-- I've never lost a baby I could hold. I've never lived with a baby inside for 30 some-odd weeks and not brought home a son or daughter. You can talk about Sophia and Grace and I will be honoured that you choose to share.


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## iris0110 (Aug 26, 2003)

Painted Horse: I get that feeling too. Like pregnant women want to avoid me because my baby died. Like it might be contagious. It has been 7 months, and I still have a hard time knowing what to say when some one tells me they are pregnant. (I obviously don't mean wilkers as she understands this side of things). The other day we went out with some friends. Dh's best friend from highschool, and his wife. They are currently TTCing for their first baby. Well the wife keeps asking me questions about my pregnancy with Ds, did I have morning sickness, did I gain alot of weight ect. I just felt like throwing in well I gained alot of weight with Ds, but with Arawyn I was still a little overweight from my first pregnancy so I was careful not to gain as much. But I didn't want to upset her. So here I am trying not to upset her and it just felt so strange. I mean the man who does my tattoos can be sensitive and ask about my pregnancies and how they were different and how I was feeling, but Dh's friends wife won't mention our daughter. Its like women who are pregnant, or who would like to get pregnant don't want to talk to me about these things because they really do want to stay niave. And every time a pregnant woman sees me with my son they start asking questions about my pregnancy, and I just want to tell them about Arawyn. But I don't, because I know it will upset them.

Then sometimes some one will notice the footprints I have tattooed on the tops of my feet and they will ask me about them. So then I tell them about Arawyn and they either look sheepish and walk away or dive into really strange questions like "so you had to deliver her?" and "Did you have to name her?" It feels good that they aren't just ignoring the whole thing, but those aren't the type of questions you would normally ask a woman who had just had a baby. I wish they would ask me how big she was, or who she looked like. I mean they wouldn't act this way if I told them my grandmother had died.

Hmm I just went off on a little tangent there didn't I? As you can see this whole thing is still rather raw for me some days. And I just realized from looking at your signature that Sophie passed exactly two months after Arawyn.


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## wilkers8 (Mar 22, 2004)

painted_horse...I also am starting to feel entitled to tell people how they have let me down. (Actually, I'm in the midst of writing my next post right now on this topic). What I am finding is when I do confront people, they still try to make it my fault. Like how could I not understand that they just deal with this differently...well, then don't be surprised when I don't want to be around you. I finally got across to this one friend that I just confronted by asking if she was my friend or an acquaintance. Because a friend would not know what to do but feel comfortable to ask me what I want...she didn't know how I felt or what I wanted. This hit something finally and she might actually start getting it. Will she be the best support now, probably not, but I'm not feeling like it's my fault or that I didn't do something to try to fix the relationship. As of today...I'm done worrying about how I make others feel. If they can handle it, then we'll remain friends. If they can't, then we become acquaintances. You would think this upsets me, but actually...it makes me feel like I can stop waiting for so&so to call, to finally get it. And this is a wonderful feeling.

Yes, I just found out that there is one little heartbeat going strong this Monday (posted that in my new thread). Thank you so much for letting me know that my journal is important. It's become my biggest support and I'm happy to hear that it may support others as well.


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## yoma679 (Jul 27, 2004)

My cousin had a still born, and several miscarages. She also had 9 kids too, and was pg 13 times. I know that it is hard to lose a precious baby, and I myself am guilty about not knowing what to say to people whom have lost a baby. You don't want to upset them, but reading this makes me realize that it may help the mother TO talk about it. I am sorry for your lose(s). I don't understand myself why such an innocent soul has to die. It makes no sense and is not fare! I just wanted to add that, and to appoligize if I may ever have been one of the people you ran into, complaining about their pg woes, or one whom didn't quite know how to respond to the news of a dear baby's death. Reading this helped me look at a pregnancy in a whole new light. I was pg 2x and had 2 "heathy" (there were some complications) babies and hated being pg, but now I realize how precious the life inside of you is, and if you are only able to enjoy it for the short amount of time, it is well worth it. Enjoy the time you have, because it could not last forever. Thank you for pointing this out to me. Anyways, I just wanted to say I'm sorry and thank you.


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## wilkers8 (Mar 22, 2004)

yoma679...Thank you. I'm absolutely sobbing as I read your post. I guess I wanted those things to be said from so many people that to finally hear it...well, you can never know how much I appreciate it!!!


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## HaveWool~Will Felt (Apr 26, 2004)

Thank you all for the post in this thread...they all have been so deep and full of emotion.
Shannon...I have decided to have Gracie's feet tattooed on my feet...I am really not being a copycat... :LOL This is the one thing that I feel so strongly about...her feet were so perfect in all their imperfections.
Boy...now I want to cry...funny how our feelings can change so quickly.

I have avoided going to the regular places that I have gone to in the past for the FEAR that I will have to tell my story about Gracie again...Like I am in love with Trader Joe's Grocery Store...but because I know half the staff there, I go to one clear across town so I don't get the looks or questions. The same goes for an organic farmers market I used to attend every Wednesday. I haven't gone once this season.
I feel like sometimes I am punishing myself because of how I feel...not others. I am simply tired of having to tell my story...

I agree Jen...I NOW...tell people that I have 4 children, two that are alive and well; two that have died. I love to see the reaction...(OK, I know I am one sick puppy...







)


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## mama2eve (Jul 1, 2004)

Only yesterday I braved the outside world to take my 3.5 year old to Playgroup. She was really excited and I knew the last couple of weeks have not been too much fun for her with her mama crying all the time and visiting hospitals and doctors. My miscarriage occurred only a week ago......

I walked in to playgroup (it's a new one, so I dont know many mamas there) but I had mentioned to one lady 3weeks before that I was looking for a good ob/gyn. She met me at the door and said, "Oh I remember you....." and she gestured to her belly like a pregnant woman. She saw the look of horror on my face and said "oh my god...are your still???" All I could say was "no, i lost my pregnancy" and burst out crying.

I was just NOT prepared for being reminded of it the minute I walked in the door.

She felt really badly and didnt know what to say except she was sorry. I dont blame her, it would have been the only thing she would have remembered about me, I was just shocked that I had to face it so quickly from the front door when my pain and grief is still so raw and fresh.

I can totally understand the point made earlier that people try to avoid the subject and didnt know what to say to me when they found out. My husbands family all said NOTHING to me directly...everything was done through my DH. When I did come face to face with them, they just didnt know what to say, so avoided the topic. I found this really hard, especially when my way of dealing with feelings is to talk and communicate. His is to move on. My family have been pretty good.

My only explanation is that people who dont have this scar obviously dont understand, find it too hard a topic to raise, words may seem cheap for them at the time? It's easier to just avoid the issue. The only people I can find a comaraderie with are the people on this board and a girlfriend who experienced a m/c a year ago. Prior to my miscarriage, I dont think I would have known what to say to someone.

It is a very lonely road and even lonelier when life must continue with this hidden pain. If anything, my experience has made me more grateful (didnt know it was possible!) for life in the womb. I cant wait to bring forth life again and I will NEVER complain about pregnancy symptoms again! Every day I have an extra beating heart within my body will be a total blessing.

Out of life's greatest adversities, comes the potential for enormous self growth. The people who havent experienced birth loss have not 'grown' as we have. They do not possess the wisdom that comes with the pain and grief of a lost pregnancy or baby.


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## HaveWool~Will Felt (Apr 26, 2004)

Thank you mama2eve....well said!!!


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## shimmer (Mar 17, 2003)

Thanks for posting this Jen, you've expressed so many things that I've been thinking.

Being in a group of chatty pg women was VERY uncomfortable for me at first. Not because I was sad but because I couldn't figure out my place. Do I put my comments in about my 1st dd's pg/delivery...do I include my 2nd dd's pg/stillbirth/delivery? Do I just keep quiet?

I'm lucky that close friends are just about done having babies so I am not in those conversations with them. But the ones that drive me crazy are the moms who sit outside of ballet class (or whatever) and yack. I don't know these women....I usually just chatter along with the best of them. But if the topic is pg/babies....I don't know what to do. I feel impolite just being quiet and not joining in and if I'm being a totally different person (which I am!). But, you can't just blurt out about dead babies while ballet class...can you?

What I do do is when women really start complaining about pg I quietly say (but so they can hear): "Well, there are worse things...." and give a sad look. That typically makes them think and they shut up.

What I am really afraid of is my business. We own a toy store and are expanding and opening a baby products store. I'm pretty scared of having to deal with all the gleeful pregnant women who are sure they will buy all of this stuff and all will be well with their baby. I guess I shouldn't mention to them their baby might die....

I don't want sympathy from other women, I just want them to realize that they are SO blessed and that this could happen to them. I want women to stop being so darn sure they will get to keep the baby they are carrying.


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## painted horse (Jul 18, 2003)

Well, you've all done a tremendous amount of good by showing me my feelings are far from unusual. I dare say that we've all done each other a tremendous amount of good by sharing our experiences. Thank you all so much for your words of wisdom and comfort.

I wish that our culture were simply more accepting of death. I think that is a large part of why people react the way they do. Not saying that death is an easy or fun subject - anything but easy; however, everything that lives eventually dies. But we really are so phobic about it. And then, on top of that, add the extra uncomfortable fact that it was a baby that died......and it seems that most people come unglued. My mouth dropped open when I read one of the questions that someone (forgive me, I can't remember who....I'm sorry!) has been asked: "Did you have to name her?" What the....? "No, I didn't have to name her - I could have just given her a number and buried her in the backyard along with Jimmy Hoffa...." (Sorry, just my way of whistling in the dark.....







) While I can appreciate that these people are trying to say something instead of ignoring it........considering the questions that are asked.....maybe ignoring it would be the lesser of two evils.....!

The other thing that I think, oddly and ironicly enough, makes hearing about out situations harder, is that not only is Death shrouded in mystery......but so is Birth!! I honestly think that there are alot of people that haven't the faintest clue as to how it all works and gets put together. Sure they understand how the baby gets there, but I don't think they are given alot of information about how the baby gets out! Or how pregnancy is such hard work, how it is so emotional, how it can affect not just the woman but the entire family......I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. I mean, you can read all about pregnancy, you can take a childbirth education class......but I don't know. In retrospect, it just seems like there is some big mystery about the mechanics of birth, or maybe its shame about sex.......and maybe I'm just going off on a tanget 'cause it late and I should be getting some sleep.....! Does any of this make sense? Its like we live in a culture that ignores how life begins, and how life ends, that death happens, and that death happens at all ages, not just the "old and infirm". I'm sorry, maybe I'm just not being very clear about this.....

I do wish though, that someone would teach a class! An ettiquitte class: "How to Talk Comfortably with a Woman/with Parents Whose Baby has Died" or something along those lines. People could learn what questions to ask, and what NOT to ask. People could learn what kind of support to offer. People could learn that its not contagious. And that the babies that died are still a part of our family. And that they don't have to avoid us by crossing the street or talking about us behind our back.......yeah, someone needs to teach a class........hmmmmmmm, wonder if I just voluntered my talents?














Heh heh......

I am so grateful and happy that this message board is in existance. What would I do without you all? My life would be that much less enriched.....not to mention that much less supported! Its a club I never wanted membership in.....but its a blessed good club to have around.....I know I'm not alone, and that helps tremendously!

With great affection for you all,

Peace, blessings and healing hugs,

Jen


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## julielp (Jul 16, 2004)

Since I lost Carter I have been hiding in my house. I havn't yet come into this situation yet. I'm sure that when I do I'll be upset and angry. So I'm happy to know that It will be easier for me to get through b/c i won't be alone in my feelings. Thanks for sharing and listening


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## SweetTeach (Oct 5, 2003)

As far as pg women, I definitely just keep my distance. I don't have the energy or interest in trying to figure out where I belong anymore.


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