# Something interesting the fire chief said to me...



## *MamaJen* (Apr 24, 2007)

I'm friends with the local fire chief and his wife. We were talking the other day and the topic of car seats came up. He said that in the 16-plus years he's been an emergency services worker, he's never seen a child who was properly restrained in a car seat die in a traffic accident. He's seen plenty of kids die who weren't restrained at all, and he's seen adults die, often when they weren't wearing seat belts.
There's always risks with cars. But in general, a child in a car seat is pretty safe.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Wasn't that a PSA in the 70s or 80s? "I've never unbuckled a dead man" or something like that? I'd like to believe it's true, as well as the thing about car seats, but I find it a little hard to believe.


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

As an EMT I haven't seen a child in a carseat die- and for that I count my blessings. I have seen car seats ejected in a rollover- mom was driving, and was taken to the ER in rough shape, the baby in the bucket and the toddler in the convertible were both ejected and found many yards away from the vehicle. The baby in the bucket was unscathed, and the toddler was scratched and bruised, but they were both otherwise fine. Obviously they were probably installed wrong in the car, but the kids were bucked into the seat itself safely, and that did a great deal to protect them.


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## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

Wow! That is an amazing story! They must have had their guardian angels nearby.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *confustication* 
As an EMT I haven't seen a child in a carseat die- and for that I count my blessings. I have seen car seats ejected in a rollover- mom was driving, and was taken to the ER in rough shape, the baby in the bucket and the toddler in the convertible were both ejected and found many yards away from the vehicle. The baby in the bucket was unscathed, and the toddler was scratched and bruised, but they were both otherwise fine. Obviously they were probably installed wrong in the car, but the kids were bucked into the seat itself safely, and that did a great deal to protect them.


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## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

Yeah, I feel like some fatal crash statistics are misleading. They don't account for misuse of a carseat. I'd love to see statistics for children properly restrained (and by properly, I don't mean the legal minimums, but what is safest). There will always be deaths in moving vehicles, whether or not car safety is followed to the letter, but I think that fatalities involving properly restrained children is a lot different from the statistics we see. I could be completely wrong, though. I think higher RF limits would change that even more.


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## *MamaJen* (Apr 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goodheartedmama* 
Yeah, I feel like some fatal crash statistics are misleading. They don't account for misuse of a carseat. I'd love to see statistics for children properly restrained (and by properly, I don't mean the legal minimums, but what is safest). There will always be deaths in moving vehicles, whether or not car safety is followed to the letter, but I think that fatalities involving properly restrained children is a lot different from the statistics we see. I could be completely wrong, though. I think higher RF limits would change that even more.

Yeah, I mean, it's obviously possible for a child to die in a car seat. But I think a rear-facing car seat, in the rear middle seat, latched into the seat hooks and tightly buckled in, with the child properly restrained in it, is a damn safe place to be, all things considered.
I do think it's a great idea to have a professional (like a firefighter who's been trained to do so) inspect your carseat for proper installation. Lots of people will do it for free.


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## *MamaJen* (Apr 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 
Wasn't that a PSA in the 70s or 80s? "I've never unbuckled a dead man" or something like that? I'd like to believe it's true, as well as the thing about car seats, but I find it a little hard to believe.

As a reporter, I've written maybe 100 traffic fatality stories in the last five years. I know the vast majority of them end, "The victim was not wearing a seat belt."
People can die wearing seatbelts, or get really messed up. But your odds are a lot better with the seat belt.
I'd be interested to see what seat belt and car seat technology will be in 20 or 50 years. I wonder if all adults will be wearing 5-point harnesses.


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **MamaJen** 
As a reporter, I've written maybe 100 traffic fatality stories in the last five years. I know the vast majority of them end, "The victim was not wearing a seat belt."

The only fatalities I've had to write about have been the same situation, and we have rollovers on a pretty regular basis around here. Even with a rollover, if they were wearing a seatbelt they stand a good chance.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

The following photo may be disturbing (it's not gory, but it could still be upsetting), which is why I'm linking it instead of imbedding it, but IMO it does a pretty good job of showing just how safe a child in a carseat can be.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...accident22.jpg

(The carseat was unoccupied in the crash and I do not know what happened to the cover.)


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## *MamaJen* (Apr 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
The following photo may be disturbing (it's not gory, but it could still be upsetting), which is why I'm linking it instead of imbedding it, but IMO it does a pretty good job of showing just how safe a child in a carseat can be.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...accident22.jpg

(The carseat was unoccupied in the crash and I do not know what happened to the cover.)

That's pretty amazing.


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## Brooklynn (Apr 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
(The carseat was unoccupied in the crash and I do not know what happened to the cover.)

I think I see a cover in the lower left hand corner of the picture... my guess is it got ripped off at some point, during or after the crash.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the cover too -- I meant I didn't know if it came off in the crash or if emergency personnel took it off for any reason (either on purpose or in the course of rescue/recovery attempts). Sorry for being unclear!


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Here's the problem, about 90% of seats are used and installed incorrectly. It's really hard to tell if a child seat was installed correctly if the crash is bad enough. If the reconstructionist happens to be a CPST, they will have a better idea, but normal people won't know. Also, crash fatalities are higher for ffing 1yo vs rfing 1yo, why, b/c they're ffing. Even in a properly installed seat, their chance of dying is higher.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **MamaJen** 
Yeah, I mean, it's obviously possible for a child to die in a car seat. But I think a rear-facing car seat, in the rear middle seat, latched into the seat hooks and tightly buckled in,

Whoa! If you mean to say the seat should be both attached to the LATCH anchors AND buckled in with the car safety belt, that's not a correct installation! It's always one or the other, never both. The LATCH system is an easier-to-use substitute for the seat belt, not an addition to it.


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## FullMetalMom (Aug 27, 2008)

I think she means that the child would be tightly bucked in.


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## *MamaJen* (Apr 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
Whoa! If you mean to say the seat should be both attached to the LATCH anchors AND buckled in with the car safety belt, that's not a correct installation! It's always one or the other, never both. The LATCH system is an easier-to-use substitute for the seat belt, not an addition to it.

Oh, I meant the baby tightly buckled in. Although actually, I just recently learned that about the either/or.
And I would totally believe that 90 percent of car seats are incorrectly installed. I know mine would be totally wrong if I hadn't taken it to the fire station and had them show me the right way to do it.


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## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **MamaJen** 
Oh, I meant the baby tightly buckled in. Although actually, I just recently learned that about the either/or.
And I would totally believe that 90 percent of car seats are incorrectly installed. I know mine would be totally wrong if I hadn't taken it to the fire station and had them show me the right way to do it.


I've tried the fire station twice, and it was a nightmare each time. One time they had my AOE tethered RF (sharing a hook with my sons regent, nonetheless). The other time the seats were just so loose. I know how to install my seats correctly, so it's easier to just do it myself. I'm sure there are some fire stations out there who can do a good job, but not the ones I took mine to.


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## Julia24 (Jun 28, 2004)

What she said! I know too many firefighters (who should OBVIOUSLY know better) that don't even buckle their OWN kids in right. It's infuriating, frankly, and I would never take my seat to a fire station to be correctly installed. I can do it myself - and just to be sure, when Maddie was little I took her seat to a free seat insepction by CPSTs (or whatever the acronym is) and they said our seat was the ONLY one they'd seen all day that was in right!

I run a home daycare and have had a few clients that were firefighters - half the time they didn't even buckle IN their 2 yo for the within the subdivision drive over...and they let their 7yo right in the front! Oh - and the other firefighter I know had his 3 yo in a decades old (I swear!) booster...the kind that had that big plastic piece over their waist? And she was totally out of it by the time she was 4!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

I think she was referring to have a tech help, not just a random fire station







Here we are lucky and every fire station in the Anchorage city limits is a fitting station.


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