# Circumcising pets



## K703 (Dec 15, 2008)

Is it true that it is illegal to circumcise (without medical reason) a pet (e.g. a cat or dog, of either gender) in the U.S.? I remember somewhere mentioning how human males are singled out for this procedure that you couldn't take your pet to the vet for a circ.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

I have never in my life heard of anyone ever circ'ing a pet.


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## angela1435 (May 11, 2007)

Well that would just be crazy.........why would you do that?


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## K703 (Dec 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angela1435* 
Well that would just be crazy.........why would you do that?









For that matter, why would someone circ a human boy?


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

One of the things that convinced my husband was when he watched some nature tv program and they said that circing a dog or wolf ( I can't remember which now) would result in it being unable to breed.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

I highly doubt it is actually illegal. I know that vets regularly do sex change operations on male cats that have a certain urinary condition that only effects male cats and not female cats. They also regularly castrate all kinds of animals. It would seem that when you consider these thing making other forms of genital surgery on pets illegal would be contrary and impractical.

Now, if I took my cat into the vet and asked for him circ the cat I'm pretty sure the vet would think I was insane.

I once pointed out on this board that: If the whole sand getting inside the foreskin in the desert thing was really such an issue, then why aren't cats always getting kitty litter stuck in there.


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## MrsMike (Aug 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *K703* 
Is it true that it is illegal to circumcise (without medical reason) a pet (e.g. a cat or dog, of either gender) in the U.S.? I remember somewhere mentioning how human males are singled out for this procedure that you couldn't take your pet to the vet for a circ.

It's not illegal. Circumcision isn't done on cats or dogs for non-medical reasons. Cats and dogs do have a prepuce, but the procedures they have aren't called circumcision. There is a very common surgical procedure called a urethrostomy that is performed on dogs and cats (typically a scrotal urethrostomy in dogs and perineal urethrostomy in cats), though most commonly in cats. The most common reason is due to recurring urinary blockages (due to stones or severe infections), though sometimes it's done for penile cancer or due to trauma. It's typically a last resort after owners have tried other means of keeping their cats unblocked. There's a theory that neutering kittens at a very young age contributes to narrowing the already tiny urethra and leads to persistant blockages. The surgery is usually a life-saving procedure. Two of my male cats have had it done and would have died without it. Now, there is an ethical dilemma as there are some owners who opt to have this surgery done preemptively on their young cats before blockages occur. Many vets will not do the surgery without prior history of blockages.

For female dogs there is a procedure called vulvaplasty, where most of the skin (excess, not normal) around the vulva is surgically removed. This is done because the vulva is recessed and you end up with a large excess of skin that causes bacterial and yeast infections and can also lead to chronic urinary tract infections and even incontinence. I had it done on my dog as she was getting chronic infections that weren't helped by any traditional or alternative therapies. She was a much, much happier dog afterward. Again, there is the ethical dilemma of owner's wanting to have the procedure done on their dogs before any problematic conditions present themselves. There is another issue with many breeders and show folk who want to have the procedure done purely for cosmetic reasons. Again, I know many vets who will not do the procedure unless medically necessary.


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## tlh (Oct 10, 2007)

From what I have read that would be unhealthy for a dog.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2341323

A 2-year-old dog was examined after a 22-month history of intermittent drying and chafing of the distal portion of the penis after traumatic loss of the cranial portion of the prepuce and fracture of the os penis at 8 weeks of age. A multiple-staged surgical procedure was performed to reconstruct the prepuce, including free buccal mucosal grafting and transfer of a peripreputial bipedicle subdermal plexus flap. Preputial reconstruction provided mucosal and cutaneous coverage of the penis.


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## kittynurse (Jun 29, 2005)

Performing a medical procedure on an animal without a veterinary license is illegal so unless you manage to find a vet who will do it for you then, yes, it is technically illegal.


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## Oubliette8 (Apr 15, 2009)

There was a case in Pennsylvania a year or two ago where someone was selling pierced kittens. They were convicted of animal cruelty. I would imagine circumcising a dog or cat would get you the same charges. Interestingly, there is a procedure called circumcision that is performed on bulls, although I haven't been able to find out much about it. And some horse owners have someone out to lean their male horses sheaths, although apparently unlike human males, this procedure must be done only once or twice a year.

On the other hand, if you crop your own dogs ears, you're likely to get an animal cruelty charge, but if you have a veterinarian do it, then its perfectly legal. So it would seem that any procedure carried by someone with a medical degree is more socially acceptable.

I did know of someone whose dog had a prepuce that was congenitally too short, so that the end of his penis was constantly uncovered. This was, apparently viewed as a medical issue by the veterinarian and the owner had to take care to make sure her dogs penis was kept moist and covered with ointment to avoid some sort of damage.


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## serendipity22 (Sep 19, 2006)

Quote:

And some horse owners have someone out to lean their male horses sheaths
Do you mean clean not lean?


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## jenP (Aug 22, 2002)

I had a horse and never ever ever once cleaned out his prepuce. Sure, when he stuck his penis out it was covered with flakes of smegma, but I sure wasn't touching horse penis. And you know what? He never ever ever had a problem with it. Lived to old old age and died of old age and never had a problem with his dirty old penis. I think nature designed mammals pretty well.
Now, cats and dogs and such will groom themselves and of course they clean their penises too. But your hooved mammals don't groom, don't clean their genitals, and generally don't bathe in water either. And they don't really have penis problems, either. So I'd have to conclude, foreskins are not disease causing!

Anyway, I think the point the OP was trying to make was, regardless of legality or ethics, most people would think it just a simply silly idea to suggest they should circumcise their pet. Their reaction would be, "why on EARTH would I do that???"
And yet, they will circumcise their son because it is "cleaner and healthier." Well, if it is so clean and healthy why would you let your dog suffer through life with that horrid dirty thing?? Somehow it causes disease in humans but not dogs??

Jen

P.S. That kitten ear-piercing thing was so hypocritical. They convicted her for piercing kitten ears, when it's still legal to cut doggies' ears and tails, and to cut baby human penises, and to pierce baby human ears. So you can pierce your baby but not your cat? I guess cats have more rights than humans, then.
And no, I don't think it is right to do that to kittens. I think ALL surgery for purely cosmetic reason should only be allowed with full informed consent of the owner of the body. And since animals and babies can't give consent, we should leave them alone. (although I do think spaying and neutering can be done because it is for the greater good, so it is not merely cosmetic.)


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenP* 
P.S. That kitten ear-piercing thing was so hypocritical. They convicted her for piercing kitten ears, when it's still legal to cut doggies' ears and tails, and to cut baby human penises, and to pierce baby human ears. So you can pierce your baby but not your cat? I guess cats have more rights than humans, then.

With fancy pet bunny rabbits, it is standard practice to mark the ears with a number. I've seen it done. They basically pierce the bunny's ears with a series of holes formed into numbers, then rub ink into it. You don't have to be a vet or have any kind of license, anyone can do it.

You can read more about it here:
http://www.bassequipment.com/Miscell...s/default.aspx


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenP* 
I had a horse and never ever ever once cleaned out his prepuce. Sure, when he stuck his penis out it was covered with flakes of smegma, but I sure wasn't touching horse penis. And you know what? He never ever ever had a problem with it.

You know, I think everyone I ever trained with had a different opinion on this. I remember being taught to clean it out at one stable, and then another said to leave it alone. I wonder which the horses prefer????? (My horse was a mare so no issues there!) And then there was one nutjob who wanted the horses' shins to be scrubbed down with Betadine after every ride...


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## KaylaBeanie (Jan 27, 2009)

It's always baffled me that a large number of people think de-clawing cats and cropping dog tails is so awful, but circumcision for a human baby is just great.

This is coming from someone who has two regrettably de-clawed cats (though I got them at age 14, so the decision was out of my hands when my mom elected to have it done) and two dogs that came to us with cropped tails.


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## PuppyFluffer (Mar 18, 2002)

Sadly, I have decided to NOT get a dog of a specific breed that I really adore because I cannot stand the tail cropping. If I am going to have complete integrity in my activism against cosmetic altering, I can't have a dog with a docked tail.
It's interesting how circumcision comes to influence your thoughts and actions when you know the real truth about it.


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## jenP (Aug 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PuppyFluffer* 
Sadly, I have decided to NOT get a dog of a specific breed that I really adore because I cannot stand the tail cropping. If I am going to have complete integrity in my activism against cosmetic altering, I can't have a dog with a docked tail.
It's interesting how circumcision comes to influence your thoughts and actions when you know the real truth about it.

Possibly you could get a puppy before it is altered?
It is so sweet and heartening to me when I see, for instance a Doberman, with natural ears and tail.

Jen


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## PuppyFluffer (Mar 18, 2002)

Possibly, but doubtful as tails are done at just a few days old, much like circumcision.
Ears are done in young puppyhood. It would be easy to leave ears intact as a pet owner, as that is often a procedure that might not have been done yet. I'd never crop ears on a dog, ever!
I want an English Cocker Spaniel, they don't have their ears cut but the tails are.
And we're really seriously off topic here! LOL But not really....because I find that my knowledge of circumcision comes up in other areas of life. For example, I was at a Richard Thompson concert - solo acoustic - and as he's standing there playing the guitar, I thought he's English, I bet he's intact, lucky guy!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

It is sometimes possible to find a breeder who would be willing to leave a tail undocked in your breed. If say they had a puppy born with a color pattern that is undesirable for the show ring so they know for sure it cant be shown they will leave the tail alone. It might be hard to find a breeder willing to do that though if there is no way to tell by color about show status. Since you cant tell show quality by just looks on a newborn puppy.

Sometimes you can find a breeder and become friends with them and in that way get them to leave a tail for you.

I had a hard time when I got my boxer because I do not believe in docking or cropping at all but finding a tailed boxer would have been impossible for me since I couldnt afford to go through a breeder. The way I look at it is I adopted Isis and if I had adopted a boy child I probably wouldnt have gotten to choose to keep him intact but I love her just like I would if she had a tail though I do get sad seeing her messed up little tail.


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## vachi73 (Mar 26, 2009)

I am somewhat LOL because, not only would I never dock tail/ears on a dog, I would never even pierce ears on a daughter, which seems scarily the norm these days


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MrsMike* 
For female dogs there is a procedure called vulvaplasty, where most of the skin (excess, not normal) around the vulva is surgically removed.

I had a friend who did this to her dog (a pit) after a series of horrible infections and some damage (scratching her butt on a chain link fence)

I cleaned out my horse's "prepuce" (we called it a sheath, I don't know if that's not the real word or what. but that's what we called it)

He would walk funny when it was really dirty, you could tell it bothered him.

Plus he was a HORSE and ADULT HORSE. Have you ever seen a stallion pee? There is like a mile of penis in there, they are totally retractable. With human babies, you don't clean because they are fused. Adult human males clean themselves, why wouldn't you clean a horse?

I am also floored by the lectures that I have received for having dogs with docked tails (one was really born with no tail, and the other was docked by the breeder) when they think circs are necessary and healthy.

Not to start another argument, but you really can't compare animals ears and tails to a human baby's penis. KWIM? If I had it to do again, I would dock my min pin's ears. He has had sooooo many infections, torn hears, thorns and things stuck really deeply in them. I feel like his ears are too big for his body, like it's an error in breeding. Does that make any sense? Like how Pugs have breathing issues because they were breed with the smooshed faces?


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## KimL (May 16, 2009)

that's disgusting.


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## erin23kate (Apr 16, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angela1435* 
Well that would just be crazy.........why would you do that?









Actually, we did.

We had a bulldog (Winston) whose glans would come out and wouldn't go back in. It used to drag on the floor (the stairs were funny and horrific at the same time, poor guy). It would get stuck out, literally for hours; he was bleeding and in pain.

First, we had the hole at the end of his "foreskin" cut larger to allow for the glans to retreat. Unfortunately, it wasn't enough, so we did ultimately have the very tip of the sheath removed to allow the glans to pull back in.

That being said, Winston was the runt of his litter, with a full-sized shlong. Bulldogs have a mess of problems as a result of inbreeding and genetic engineering; we adopted him knowing he would have a lot of health problems.

People don't generally have a "penis dragging on the floor" problem!!


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## CallMeMommy (Jun 15, 2005)

In the same vein, I've been watching a lot of Animal Cops (maternity leave, not a lot of choices for daytime TV







) and in more than one episode there have been cases where an owner has wrapped a rubber band around a body part (tails, ears, toes, etc.) to make it fall off and the investigators just go on and on about how cruel and painful it is - but that's exactly what a Plastibell circumcision is. And nobody seems to make the connection.


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## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

OMG! I swear I thought I was going to be opening a Holiday Helper thread! Let's just say I'm shocked.


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Doodlebugsmom* 
OMG! I swear I thought I was going to be opening a Holiday Helper thread! Let's just say I'm shocked.


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## Narmowen (Jan 7, 2010)

Some male horses need their sheaths cleaned. Just as some mares need their nether regions (between the teats) cleaned. Some don't.

Some dog breeders are working on creating naturally bob-tailed dog breeds. The one I clearly remember is this one: (boxers & corgi's to create bob-tailed boxers)

http://www.steynmere.com/


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