# How to deal with child-haters/bashers



## amitymama (Nov 17, 2006)

I am a member of another forum that is not parenting-focused but it does have a parenting section. Every so often, a thread will come up that gets the childfree by choice folks riled up with the parents, or vice versa. A large percentage of posters on the forum are mothers, I'd say they are the slight majority. Most of the childfree people are either younger and so just don't have kids yet, or have had infertility problems. The majority are respectful of our different lifestyle choices. However, there are a few who are ardently childfree by choice (CBC) and verge on being child-haters. One woman and one man in particular make insulting comments about children at any opportunity and compare them to pets, say they shouldn't be allowed in many public places, take pleasure in talking about kids 'needing a smack', refer to them as 'screaming brats' or 'ankle biters' and even went so far as to say that they thought that woman who got kicked off the flight for breastfeeding her toddler 'deserved it for being such a freak'.







:

A thread recently came up about people bringing dogs into coffee shops or restaurants and how some people think it's okay but others don't. Of course, as expected, someone had to say "Well, they're not dirtier or more annoying than children" and a big hoo-haa kicked off. I always defend children and call out any blatant unwarranted hatred or comments but I'm getting really tired of it. I always stress the fact that I respect their decision not to have children, that I think it's mature that they've realized that parenting isn't something they're cut out for, and acknowledge their valid points about some children being out of control in public, their parents letting them run wild and annoy everyone within a 2 mile radius. All I ask for is that they respect my lifestyle as well and not refer to children as inferior, sub-human beings who are no better than gum on the bottom of their shoes and who have no rights.

Should I just ignore people like this instead of trying to change their thinking, or at least asking them to respect mine? I am so frustrated with this whole issue and am tired of being made to feel like I'm just some uptight mother who can't stand to hear a single bad word about kids spoken. I'm very laid back and can see the humour in the odd comment about kids being annoying in public, but these comments border on hatred and it makes me angry to hear people get away with making such derogatory remarks. I think they forget that they were children too at one point!

Does anyone else have to deal with these debates/arguments? How do you handle the sarky comments?


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## Calliope (May 24, 2005)

Ignore people like that. They are very, very unhappy.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

I once was in a discussion like that and somebody said something like, you know, your comments about children sound very discriminatory. I mean, imagine if you swapped an ethnic group or race with the word 'children' in your comments, think how that would sound -- 'I hate being around mexicans' or 'they should have flights that don't allow jews' or 'I had the worst lunch, I had to sit next to a table of italians and you know how they act all the time'...

I think it had some effect in making people think about stereotyping. Of course the worst offenders you will never reach, but the people who are just sort of shooting their mouths off without thinking might reconsider the way they talk.


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

I have yet to meet someone who hates children who isn't a deeply unhappy or disturbed individual.


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## eldadeedlit (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calliope* 
Ignore people like that. They are very, very unhappy.









: these people are just pathetic. i feel bad for them.


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## eldadeedlit (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
I once was in a discussion like that and somebody said something like, you know, your comments about children sound very discriminatory. I mean, imagine if you swapped an ethnic group or race with the word 'children' in your comments, think how that would sound -- 'I hate being around mexicans' or 'they should have flights that don't allow jews' or 'I had the worst lunch, I had to sit next to a table of italians and you know how they act all the time'...

I think it had some effect in making people think about stereotyping. Of course the worst offenders you will never reach, but the people who are just sort of shooting their mouths off without thinking might reconsider the way they talk.

and what makes it even more ridiculous is that EVERYBODY was a kid at one time!!! do they hate themselves?







:


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## rileysmommy (Dec 11, 2004)

yeah, i have to say i'd probably not take too well to a person like that, and i know myself and my mouthiness and i'd likely start a fued.
i don't think all people have to like or want to have children, but WOW to call such innocent humans such horrid names, and compare them to animals..holy crap!


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## KBinSATX (Jan 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
I once was in a discussion like that and somebody said something like, you know, your comments about children sound very discriminatory. I mean, imagine if you swapped an ethnic group or race with the word 'children' in your comments, think how that would sound -- 'I hate being around mexicans' or 'they should have flights that don't allow jews' or 'I had the worst lunch, I had to sit next to a table of italians and you know how they act all the time'...

I think it had some effect in making people think about stereotyping. Of course the worst offenders you will never reach, but the people who are just sort of shooting their mouths off without thinking might reconsider the way they talk.

Wow. That's a really good point!


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

People like that are not worth our time or energy geting wound up about, although it is hard not letting it get to you







:

Quote:

and what makes it even more ridiculous is that EVERYBODY was a kid at one time!!! do they hate themselves?
Good point


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

I would *ignore* AND *avoid* people or forums like that.


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Those people make me ill.

I'm on facebook and there are lots of groups about killing babies. I'm not talking about abortion either.

You've got to be dimented, I swear.


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## WonderWild (May 13, 2004)

I have never encountered someone like that. I don't think I'd be very nice to them if they talked like that around me.


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## amitymama (Nov 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
I once was in a discussion like that and somebody said something like, you know, your comments about children sound very discriminatory. I mean, imagine if you swapped an ethnic group or race with the word 'children' in your comments, think how that would sound -- 'I hate being around mexicans' or 'they should have flights that don't allow jews' or 'I had the worst lunch, I had to sit next to a table of italians and you know how they act all the time'...

I think it had some effect in making people think about stereotyping. Of course the worst offenders you will never reach, but the people who are just sort of shooting their mouths off without thinking might reconsider the way they talk.

Wow, excellent advice, I'm definitely going to try that tactic next time! If that doesn't work, I'm just going to go into ignore mode. I can't keep getting upset over this, it's just pathetic and probably giving them what they want -- attention.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

I think you have to just ignore it. I don't have a problem with groups like (I think it's called) No Kidding or people who are CF by Choice. I can totally understand that not everyone wants kids and I can even understand that kids really can be annoying, esp if you don't have any and your expectations are just not realistic.

People who activly HATE children, as others have said, always seem very very unhappy in general and just miserable. Hating children is almost a hobby for them and it's a big part of their self image. You can't shake that, just ignore it. They will never be the majority, they will never actually ban children from public places, and they will always be uhappy. It's sad. The kid hating is just where they've focused all their misery.


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

I don't have the emoptional energy -- i adovid them at all costs

if i encounter it in a buseness -- I do NOT go back and I write a letter to the highest level of manangenet (corp not local) telling them WHY

but

Quote:

I once was in a discussion like that and somebody said something like, you know, your comments about children sound very discriminatory. I mean, imagine if you swapped an ethnic group or race with the word 'children' in your comments, think how that would sound -- 'I hate being around mexicans' or 'they should have flights that don't allow jews' or 'I had the worst lunch, I had to sit next to a table of italians and you know how they act all the time'...
is an excelelnt observation

but i fear anyone that messed up, that full of hate and so self-centered ---- is NOT wortht he time or effert.

course there is always the snarky remark "aren't you lucky your mom didn't feel that way?"

I think anyone who says that is so full of self-hate -- and so self-centered it would take years of theray to scratch the surface -- nothing you can do in a miute or two -- but maybe casue a moment of embassement and get them to shut up for the time being (which is still something worthwise)

A


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Ignore them. Attention makes them grow.

I've noticed they tend to be young heterosexuals (m and f both) who are desparately afraid their birth control will fail, and who were raised by overbearing authoritarians. Seriously. And most of them start singing a different tune when they hit 30.







:


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## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

i would just laugh at them, over and over. Quote their more obnoxious posts, and laugh and laugh, and say "oh, you are so silly". and occassionally point out how they are even sillier b/c statistics prove out that at least 70 percent of them will have kids later.


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

How about:

"get over it. Kids are here, kids will always be here and it's not called a "public place" for nothing. Public is public for all citizens. Sorry you feel so threatened by the most vurnerable of our population. That's just sad."


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## Laggie (Nov 2, 2005)

I remember as a kid being completely flummoxed when I heard an adult say they didn't like kids... Thinking, "but you were a kid!" WTF?

Honestly I think a lot of these people, in an online forum, are just trying to be inflammatory.

The flipside is, in our culture so many people are afraid to interact with kids unless they have their own. So I think some of them respond to that with a dislike of children - being around kids makes them nervous because they don't know what to do!


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

Recommend they see or read "Children of Men" - a world without children is futureless.

BJ
Barney, Ben & soon to be #3!!!


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## gwen's mom (Aug 1, 2003)

I work with a woman like this~ she is 40ish, single, with 2 cats that she talks about like they are her children. I never bring up my kids (I am the only one with kids) in the office however my co-workers love them and often ask about them. Whenever I tell a story of their antics the woman mentioned above will say "That's on my list of why I NEVER wanted children."

Recenty she was telling a cat story about how her cats woke her up at 3:00 in the morning because they were thirsty. I quicky pointed out that at least with kids they get to an age where they can get a drink themselves where as she will always be getting up to water the cats.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys* 
Recommend they see or read "Children of Men" - a world without children is futureless.

BJ
Barney, Ben & soon to be #3!!!

Exactly! Children are essential to our lives as a people. Simple as that.

I don't think that its fair though to say that "children are the same as any other group...would they say X about Jews."

Children ARE different. They are as a group, on average (especially when young) louder, messier and wilder and needier than adults on average as a group. This is developmentally appropriate and we as a society needs to be more tolertant of these things because of these developmental realities.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Meh. CF'ers are everywhere. I would just refer them to the CF board and tell them to take their hate where it will be embraced and appreciated.







Blech.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44* 
Exactly! Children are essential to our lives as a people. Simple as that.

I don't think that its fair though to say that "children are the same as any other group...would they say X about Jews."

Children ARE different. They are as a group, on average (especially when young) louder, messier and wilder and needier than adults on average as a group. This is developmentally appropriate and we as a society needs to be more tolertant of these things because of these developmental realities.

Actually, I totally agree with this sentiment... however, this is almost an IMPOSSIBLE point to get across to people who hate kids. Typically these people are of the "children should be seen and not heard" camp, and they can't understand why parents don't just slap their kids silly until they align with the rest of society.

I've tried to go down this road but all I ever hear is "well, when *I* was a kid *my* parents wouldn't have stood for..." yadda yadda yadda.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:

I've tried to go down this road but all I ever hear is "well, when *I* was a kid *my* parents wouldn't have stood for..." yadda yadda yadda.
Well, I think that's true in a lot of ways. Parents were a lot more strict in the past (I know mine wouldn't have let me get away with a lot of stuff that I consider, with my daughter, just kid stuff). And when you don't have kids, it might be hard to understand WHY a parent wouldn't just tell (or make) a kid sit down and shut up. And let's be honest, there are some downright inconsiderate parents out there (the parent who lets their three year old cry or talk all through an R rated movie, or lets their multiple children roam through a nice, non-family-style, crouded restaraunt, etc, these parents who are not by any means the majority, but who are a very inconsiderate, visible, and loud minority) and that does contribute to the backlash against kids and parents.

All in all, I think the anti-child (NOT the people who just choose not to have kids, or even those who don't especially love being around children - those are personal choices and I support someone's right to make them!) people are unhappy and they've just chosen kids as an easy place to vent that. I think kids, ESP ones who "act up" probably seem to feel at ease in the world in a way these angry adults can not.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

Does the message board have any rules of conduct for posters? If it does, are they violating that with their derogatory and hateful comments? If so report them to management.

A board that has a parenting forum obviously welcomes people talking about children.

If the board doesn't have any rules of conduct maybe it is time to lobby management for a basic rule about being respectful of other poster's different lifestyles and hateful/discriminatory comments about age, sex, or race not being tolerated.

If other posters and management are unwilling to do anything about these few sad people then I'd find a new board.


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## grypx831 (May 22, 2005)

Ignore them. They are just begging for attention and if you don't give it to them they'll go away.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlyzombiecat* 
Does the message board have any rules of conduct for posters? If it does, are they violating that with their derogatory and hateful comments? If so report them to management.

Hee hee, I think you are spoiled by the MDC forums!









This is by far the nicest, most respectful web forum I have EVER participated in... and while snark (and worse) are not tolerated here, many (most?) web forums I've been a part of seem to THRIVE on that sort of interaction. On lots of forums the only thing you'll get reprimanded for is saying something that qualifies as true hate speech.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I've been on other forums and recognize that MDC is more vigilant than any other forum I've ever seen about the conduct of members. I certainly don't expect that level of management from the rest of the internet.
However, a lot of boards do have some kind of user agreement or rules of conduct even if the admin and mods are hands off. If the vast majority of people on the board are respectful of others and the board is hosting a parenting forum then I don't think it is unrealistic to speak with management about it as a possible solution to the repeated hateful posting of a few people.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

I would be totally offended and yes I would say something about it. And then I would probably remove myself from that board/environment. Who needs to listen to that crap.


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## amitymama (Nov 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlyzombiecat* 
Does the message board have any rules of conduct for posters? If it does, are they violating that with their derogatory and hateful comments? If so report them to management.

A board that has a parenting forum obviously welcomes people talking about children.

If the board doesn't have any rules of conduct maybe it is time to lobby management for a basic rule about being respectful of other poster's different lifestyles and hateful/discriminatory comments about age, sex, or race not being tolerated.

If other posters and management are unwilling to do anything about these few sad people then I'd find a new board.

Actually, the moderators are quite strict about warning or subsequently banning (if the behaviour continues) posters who use personal attacks or make inflammatory comments that are just not acceptable, but apparently child bashing doesn't fall under this and so they are allowed to have their opinion and state it. In that way, I do think their comments are comparable to someone making a racist or sexist remark -- they're generalizing based on their (very limited) experiences of children and are then making derogatory comments based on that narrow view, which, IMO, *does* count as an inflammatory violation that should be squashed. These people routinely call parents 'breeders' but since they're not saying it directly TO any particular poster, they don't get called out on it.









To me, that's like someone saying "black people are mostly (insert horrible 'N' word here)" but since they didn't say that to an individual, that's okay.







:


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## lesley&grace (Jun 7, 2005)

Chinakat makes a really good point, you could make it as well if you respond to their posts.

Thing is, if someone were to make a derogatory comment on MDC which was insensitive to a particular group, then the Mods would be on them. I'd report them to the Moderator of the forum, there has to be someone there to enforce the UA and if these posts are truly troubling you then that is what I would do.

I would also ignore their postings and encourage others to do the same. You encourage them when you respond to their nonsense. It's hard to do though, since offensive blanket statements are hard to ignore, especially when they are against a group which you have a definite interest in their well-being.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Ignore them.

You have no way of knowing if those people are putting you on. Treat them as you would a troll. Ignore, or a mild 'mmmhmmm'. Because if they're "CF" and on a parenting board? They're trolling.

If this is a continual problem and you're getting really upset, I'd suggest finding another board that's more protected, until you can control your reaction better.

In an ideal world, these people would be prevented from bad behavior, but as anyone who signs up on message boards knows, that's not the case in reality, and we have to assume some degree of ownership of how we allow things to affect us. That goes double for something that you know won't be modded.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
Because if they're "CF" and on a parenting board? They're trolling.


Excellent point!


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