# hmmm... so boosters aren't safe for 3 yr olds?



## donnaworkingmomto4 (Oct 26, 2008)

My kids are 3.5 and one is about 38 lbs and one about 42 lbs. They are still in their convertible seats for right now, but the issue is I am 37 weeks pregnant and there is *no way* to fit an infant seat inbetween the two. I believe I have the Evenflo blue Walmart convertibles. I don't have the money to order radians if that would even work(they are 17 inches wide whereas I believe ours are 18").

The boosters I am looking at say for 30lbs and up I believe and I *think* it would give us enough room to safely put the infant seat between them(saying they measure 15.6 inches in width).... but I am reading here now everyone saying how unsafe this is for 3 year olds?? Why?

I have a 99 Honda Civic and no I cannot get another car... what would be the safest solution? I am trying to fit a small bucket infant seat between the two convertibles and the fit is not even close for the base, much less the seat itself. No way to force or cram it in *at all*. TIA


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## Vancouver Mommy (Aug 15, 2007)

You would have to check the legislation in your particular jurisdiction. In BC (where I live) the law states that a child must be four years old AND 40 lbs before they can be in a booster.


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## ani'smommy (Nov 29, 2005)

I know that you'll get other responses here, too. . .but I would get the boosters. Or just one for the heavier kiddo. I think general consensus is 4 years and 40 lbs (we're talking high-backed booster, right?) but I have also heard 6 yrs and 60lbs!

FWIW, we have a radian in our car for every day use, but we also have a Graco TurboBooster that we use a few times a week in our other car, or in my mom's car. It is sooo much more portable, too. DD turned 4 in December, and we've been using it for 5 months or so. She is still a pound or two shy of 40 lbs.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

No way I'd put them in boosters. Very dangerous.

4 and 40 is the MINIMUM to be safe. And that is if the child sits correctly EVERY SINGLE TIME.

do yours ever fall asleep? Would they reach for something on the floor? Can they sit straight and correctly every time, the whole time?

-Angela


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

I would say check your legislation & at least make sure you are meeting that - as a minimum. There are "ideals" people try to meet with carseaats but sometimes an ideal just is not workable or practical & it sounds like you already know that.


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## soccermama (Jul 2, 2008)

I just dealt with this issue myself. My IL's had purchased a booster for our 3 year old mainly because they went by the height and weight requirements - DS is 41 inches tall and weighs 39 lbs, but he is also still only 3 years old. So we asked that they hold off on using that until he's at least 4 years. It's safer to use the 5 point harness until they're 4 and 40. So they were gracious enough to go out and buy one that had a 5 point harness and also could convert over to a booster.

We use the Graco Nautilus in both of our cars. It's a 5 point harness but also converts to a booster. It's good for kiddos that are 30lbs up to 100lbs. The harness is good for up to 65lbs.
http://www.amazon.com/Graco-Nautilus.../dp/B0011URFRE


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

I'm of two minds. The first, and what I would recomend, is best practice. Boosters are not safe for three year olds, they aren't great for four year olds. Children need to be able to sit still, correctly for every ride. This is not about weight so much as it is about maturity and bone structure. As children's pelvis structure matures, the illiac crest (bony knob) forms. Until that is in place, seat belts don't stay down or fit well. We waited until my DD was about 4.5 to start using a booster as a back up seat. She is still harnessed most of the time.

Now, my second mind is one of reality. First of all, if you are using a standard convertible from Wal-Mart, your children are most likely too heavy and too tall to be in them. They harness to 40lbs usually and the top slots must above the shoulder, top of the ears within the shell of the seat. There aren't alot of high weight harnessing seats that will fit three across, the Radian is the one most likely to work. And I understand that buying three new seats at once, is out of the reach for most parents, especially right now.

What matters most is that all of your children are in properly fitting seats for their height and weight. And that each seat is correctly installed and used, every ride, every time. Keep in mind that in three across situations boosters are sometimes worse, because you have to reach in between the installed center seat to access the buckle. It can be a real PITA. Is it the end of the world to put your 3 1/2 year olds in boosters? No, in fact, it's probably safer than using the harness over the weight limit as you might be currently doing. HOWEVER, it's not great, it's not what is recomended, and it is certainly not best practice.


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## donnaworkingmomto4 (Oct 26, 2008)

My convertibles are good up to 65 lbs and the kids have not outgrown the height. Even if I had the money right now, three radians aren't going to fit in my car, I am pretty sure and a radian wouldn't work for a newborn anyway. My 18 inch seats don't leave much room in the middle at all.

I'm in Louisiana so I'm not sure what the booster age/weight requirements are.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Given their ages and weights (mostly ages) I would not put them in boosters. There's a reason that 4 and 40 is the bare minimum, and even then, you won't find many techs recommending boosters for a 40lb 4yo.

I realize that everyone's situation is different, but I would check www.car-seat.org and find out if anyone has been able to get 3 Radians across the back of a Civic, the newborn rf in the center of 2 ff seats.

I just couldn't rationalize putting kids that young in boosters.

ETA- OP, we were posting at the same time. You might be surprised- many people have reported that the fit of newborns in the Radian is very good- one of the best in convertibles on the market right now, because of the low bottom set of harness slots.

Which convertibles do you have from Walmart that have a 65lb harness limit? Evenflo doesn't make a seat with a 65lb harness limit- are they Graco Nautiliuses by any chance?


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## donnaworkingmomto4 (Oct 26, 2008)

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=5030625

These are the boosters I'm considering... they say 30 lbs... trying to find out if the cupholders are removeable though.

I've looked for the narrowest bucket to put between and nothing is narrow enough... maybe if I got one booster for the heavier kid and kept using the convertible for the other under 40lbs I could make it fit.

We don't take many long drives, but I definitely want them secure.


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## donnaworkingmomto4 (Oct 26, 2008)

I honestly do not have the money for radians, I have been unemployed since October. If I had my way, I would just get a larger car. My civic is a canadian model and the backseat is narrower than most.

Would it be safer then to put one convertible in the front seat? This would be horribly inconvenient, but I definitely don't want my kids endangered.

I don't have the model number right now... but it is a blue evenflo (or maybe cosco?). I purchased them about 2 years ago from Walmart and i purchased them for the very fact the weight limit was so high and they were economical.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

elephantine, i bet you have the apex 65- they are made by dorel and do have a 65lb harness height- and boy, they are WIDE! i don't know of any infant bucket you'd get in between those seats.

i hear ya on the expense; i'd have to put 3 seats on a credit card right now if we needed them.

i'll let a tech chime in on whether it's safer to put one in the front vs. a booster


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## donnaworkingmomto4 (Oct 26, 2008)

The seats I have look almost this, so I guess they are Coscos oops: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=1943168 except they are convertibles and only go to 65 not 80.. and they are saying this is a booster... hmm I know I purchased mine as convertibles two years ago, but
I cannot find them currently for sale anywhere.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

if those are the seats you have, the harness definately only goes to 40lbs NOT 65. they can be used as a belt positioning booster (with the harness pulled out) from 40-80lbs. dorel/cosco has never made a seat with a harness limit of more than 40lbs besides the apex 65- here's a picture:

http://www.target.com/Safety-1st-Ape...ex%5F65&page=1


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## donnaworkingmomto4 (Oct 26, 2008)

No, those aren't the seats.. they look very similar to the link I posted to the Cosco that is 22-80 lbs. It seems things have really changed a lot in the two years since I got these seats.

ok I gotcha I think, I don't see how my seats would work with a belt though... don't think they would be secure at all that way hmmmm


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## Giraffe (Feb 13, 2009)

KayleeZoo is right about the weight limits.

Where you might be confused is the ones that go from harness to booster are combination seats. Ones the rear face & forward face are convertible seats.

Many sites also miscategorize seats frequently. Many don't have a combination seat category so those seats end up under boosters or convertibles.

Could you try putting the big kids side by side & the baby in one of the outboard seats? Sometimes you just have to puzzle them just right. The Baby Trend infant seat is pretty narrow. You'll also have to think ahead about what convertible would fit once baby outgrows the infant seat.


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## Giraffe (Feb 13, 2009)

Any Cosco seat that goes from 22-80lbs (even from 2 years ago) harnesses 22-40lbs & converts to a booster from 30/40-80lbs. (Some allow 30lbs to start at a booster & others start at 40lbs, but doesn't make it a good idea.)


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

with the seats you have, the 42lb kiddo is definately over the weight limit for the harness- i know that doesn't help to alleviate your car seat problems, but it's not safe to use a seat at all past the harness weight limit.


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## donnaworkingmomto4 (Oct 26, 2008)

I remember trying to install them rear-facing and could never figure it out... it has been so long though. So it looks like they really are the combination seats.. which explains my difficulty in installing them rear facing lol.

So I definitely need new seats for the older ones then... I really don't like the idea of using these as boosters -- the normal high backed boosters look like they would be safer, plus allow me to put in an infant seat.

I've arranged the seats all around and no way it is fitting as is. This is so stressful ahhh.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Infant seats are really, really wide. Can you try a different seat for the baby, like a Scenera? They do fit newborns really well. Even my 6lb DS fit in it from birth. And I know you said a Radian isn't in your budget, and I respect that, but I just wanted to say it would fit a newborn really well too.

Also, do experiment with putting one of your older children in the center. The baby outboard is actually safer than having the older kid outboard. But at this point, I'd do it however it fits.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Not that this helps your financial situation, but I had 3 Radians across our Canadian 98 Civic, so it should be doable if you ever came into the money.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

I agree, try a scenera for the baby.


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## Mama2Xander (Jul 3, 2004)

Probably not what you want to hear, but...

We have a 1992 2-door Toyota Tercel which I believe is about the same size (in the backseat) as the Civic, actually I think I read the Tercel is slightly wider than the Civic. We have 3 kids now and there just isn't a way to get 3 seats in our car. Even 3 Radians would not fit. The only thing we could do would be to have 2 seats in the back and one in the front seat (obviously not ideal), but then there is still not enough room for an adult to also sit in the back. The only time we'd ever have all 3 kids in the car is if DH and I were both there, so having one seat in the front doesn't do us any good if the other adult can't fit in the car anyway.

We very rarely need/want to all go in the car together anyway, so it's not really a big deal. We can walk to almost everything we need and we are planning to join the local car coop for the times when we do all want to go in a vehicle together. DS3 is 5 weeks old now and it hasn't been an issue so far. We did take the bus once when we needed to go somewhere that was too far to walk. Not sure if any of that is possible for you?


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## sunnymw (Feb 28, 2007)

Does the center seat have a lap/shoulder belt?

If so, how about keeping your under-40-lb kiddo harnessed outboard, then 42lb LO in the center in a HBB, and baby outboard? That way your least protected child (the one in a booster) is in the most protected position


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## donnaworkingmomto4 (Oct 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnymw* 
Does the center seat have a lap/shoulder belt?

If so, how about keeping your under-40-lb kiddo harnessed outboard, then 42lb LO in the center in a HBB, and baby outboard? That way your least protected child (the one in a booster) is in the most protected position









No, it only has a lap belt.


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## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

I have no advice on what will possibly fit as I don't have a Civic... I live in LA as well though, and the law here is 4 years old and 40lbs before they can move to a booster. However, I would personally do everything in my power to keep them harnessed for as long as possible.

Sorry you're having such a hard time with it though... I was considering purchasing a Civic too, I guess I'll have to rethink that!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Newer models may have wider back seats, though.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

What about something like this: http://www.ezonpro.com/products/fami...est/103z.shtml


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## soxthecatrules (Oct 20, 2008)

Not sure this will be helpful....do you know of someone who could loan you a slightly older model (3-4 yrs old) Peg Perego Primo Viaggio bucket seat? Those are the narrowest bucket seats I've ever seen. It won't last you long but it may buy you some time. We were given one to have as a spare and DD grew out of hers at around 5months.

***BTW...only use a used carseat if you can be certain of its history.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

The narrowest bucket seats are the Baby Trend ones (and they also happen to be on the cheap end).


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

Louisiana law says 4 yrs and 40 lbs for a booster. Is there anyone you know who could loan you money for new seats (radians??). I know if a friend or family member in your situation approached me I would loan them the $$ to keep their kids safe. Also check with your local car seat installation agency, they might be able to get you new seats that fit since you can't afford them.
http://www.cruisinwithkids.com/Louis...nStations.html


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Couple of questions.
1. Besides side-impact protection, what's the difference between a high-backed booster with a 5 point harness and a convertible seat? I'd think any 5-point harness would do just as well to keep a LO sitting up properly?

2. Would a HBB with 5pt harness help the space situation?--A quick search indicates yes. The one seat I just looked at the Ultra CarGo by Graco, is 16.5" wide ($80).

ETA: the Cargo isn't a suggestion for a HBB harnessed booster for the OP, I was just googling to see if harnessed booster-style seats existed at all!


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Couple of questions.
1. Besides side-impact protection, what's the difference between a high-backed booster with a 5 point harness and a convertible seat? I'd think any 5-point harness would do just as well to keep a LO sitting up properly?

2. Would a HBB with 5pt harness help the space situation?--A quick search indicates yes. The one seat I just looked at the Ultra CarGo by Graco, is 16.5" wide ($80).

1) A convertible seat will go rearfacing or forward facing. There are not convertibles that actually make good boosters. A harnessed seat that converts to a booster (known as a combination seat) is forward facing only. Two of these combination seats make excellent boosters, the nautilus and the frontier. The others are either so-so or lousy boosters. The harness weights and heights vary from seat to seat (amongst convertibles and combination seats). As far as I know, the only combination seats that go above 40 lbs are the Safety First Apex (65 lbs and a 17" harness height), Graco Nautilus (65 lbs and a 18.25" harness height) and the Britax Frontier (80 lbs and a 18" harness height). There are several recommended convertibles with tall shells and higher harness heights and weight limits like the sunshine kids radian (65 or 80 lbs and 18"), Compass True Fit (65 lbs and 18"?), Britax convertibles (65 lbs and 17") and the Evenflo Triumph Advance (55 lbs unsure on harness height). I'm sure there is one or two I'm forgetting.

2) The ultra cargo only harnesses to 40 lbs and 43", so I really doubt it will help you much at all. I do not know how good of a booster it makes, but it looks similar to the alpha omega in booster mode which is a lousy booster. If you want a combination seat that will make a decent booster, you're going to have to look for a nautilus or frontier, and they are wide, unfortunately. The Apex is even wider, makes an ok booster.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Couple of questions.
1. Besides side-impact protection, what's the difference between a high-backed booster with a 5 point harness and a convertible seat? I'd think any 5-point harness would do just as well to keep a LO sitting up properly?

2. Would a HBB with 5pt harness help the space situation?--A quick search indicates yes. The one seat I just looked at the Ultra CarGo by Graco, is 16.5" wide ($80).

A 5pt harness seat is the same level of safety as a convertible ff. By boosters, the posters here are talking about boosters with a SEATBELT- NOT a 5pt harness.

As I recall- the CarGo has very low top strap heights and is a poor choice all around- if the 16.5 is the top height, that's lower than a marathon- probably would not fit the OPs kids.

-Angela


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Oh yeah, good point, they do only harness to 40lbs and the OP's kids are 38 and 42. Ah well.


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## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Yeah, unfortunately most (or all?) of the cheaper harness/booster combo seats out there only harness to 40lbs. They make them sound so worth it on the box ("takes your child from 22 to 100 pounds!") but as you know, they only harness to the bare minimum.


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