# Hand Sanitizer



## beru (Nov 19, 2007)

I want to know if I am abnormal in my perception of the proper use of hand sanitizer...I believe it is a last resort thing. Washing your hands with soap and water is better for your skin and more efficient at killing germs. If I use sanitizer on myself or my children, I think of it as temporary. In most cases, I would try to then find a place to wash my/their hands so I could 1. get our hands more clean and 2. wash the alcohol off our hands. I especially avoid sanitizer before eating because then we are basically eating alcohol...

The reason I bring this up is I just found out that my son's preschool teacher is nuts about the stuff. My son told me that before lunch they wash their hands in the bathroom and then put the sanitizer on. Huh? I thought my son was being a bad reporter but the teacher confirmed it to me. She acknowledged that she thought it was making my son's hands dry so she said she'll make sure he doesn't use it from now on. She didn't get it that I think the way she is using it is weird. She thinks I am just concerned because my sons hands are dry. I was considering talking to the director about it. It might not be especially harmful but it is at the very least completely unnecessary.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

From what I know the fear of "eating alcohol" isn't really a huge thing...the stuff dissipates and unless you're licking your hands you're probably fine.

However, your thoughts about soap and water being better are totally right on. Hand sanitizer is for those times when there isn't soap around and you just HAVE to have clean hands. Further more, it can't get dirt and stuff off...just germs.

Also, check the ingredients. There was a study about a year ago linking triclosan (a common anti-bacterial) and MRSA and other resistant staph infections.


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## NewDirections (Jul 18, 2008)

I totally agree that washing hands should come first and hand sanitizer is a distant second.

Also important it that the sanitizer needs to have 60% or more alcohol in it to kill germs. If it has less than that it is just moving the germs around your hands


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## BeckC (Nov 27, 2006)

Yea I'm in the less is more camp when it comes to hand sanitizer. I keep some in the car incase I have to use a bathroom on the road with no soap. And we take it camping. And it's in our emergency first aid kit.

I can't think of the last time I used it.


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## prescottchels (Jun 8, 2007)

I'm right there w/you all! In fact there are plenty of natural essential oils that are antibacterial or antimicrobial that don't create superbugs that are in soaps at the health food store or you can add drops of the essential oil to a spray bottle and use it like lysol if there's sickness going around.
Here's a link to why antibac's are bad. Maybe the OP could give this to the teacher w/ideas for an alternative if she's dead set on needing antibac in the classroom....? I've worked in schools so I understand wanting an extra boost especially during the winter months.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Natur...rial-Soap.aspx


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## Lemon Juice (Jun 6, 2005)

I don't like it either. It burns if you have cuts on your hands and it smells awful. Plus ds sucks his thumb and it never fails that if he uses it he forgets and tastes it and gets grossed out. I really don't like him using it b/c of the thumb sucking.

I would much rather use soap and water and we don't use anitbac normally. But during winter and cold/flu times and if we are w/ other children (like homeschool group, playgroup, etc) we will to prevent illness, especially w/ a newborn coming any day now. I tried not using it last year but we were SO sick the entire winter...I can't risk that this year. But during the year we don't use it, there's not a need, imo.

I've also heard it's bad for your septic tank, if you have one.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

I'm surprised she would have them put it on after washing with soap and water. I would think she would be instructing them in good hand washing techniques. We used it a lot last winter - when we were out and I had a newborn iwth a compormised immune system (undergone heart surgery - twice!) when we didn't have access to soap and water. but other than that, I would not use it. and lots of times, we just wiped out hands with baby wipes, instead.


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## AlmostAPpropriate (Oct 23, 2004)

Actually, there was a report that came out that showed that using sanitizer after washing decreased disease transmission. HOWEVER the basis for that was that most people dont wash their hands properly so the sanitzer was a back up.

So, if the handwashing in school is supervised where each child is washing ALL SIDES of their hands for a FULL 15 seconds than their is no need. Without supervision my kids will usually only wash for about 5 seconds and then usually only get their palms. So I guess it depends on what the handwashing routine is.


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## AlmostAPpropriate (Oct 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
.... and lots of times, we just wiped out hands with baby wipes, instead.

using a baby wipe is not preventing germ transmission. without the water to rinse away the disloged germs/bacteria or alcohol to kill them you are pretty much just moving them around. It does make hands look/feel better though.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlmostAPpropriate* 
using a baby wipe is not preventing germ transmission. without the water to rinse away the disloged germs/bacteria or alcohol to kill them you are pretty much just moving them around. It does make hands look/feel better though.

interesting. What if they are clorox bleach wipes? Just kidding!!

thanks for the info.


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## AlmostAPpropriate (Oct 23, 2004)

funny... Honestly, Im not in the camp who thinks all germs must be erradicated. So for me, wiping off the dirt is enough sometimes.


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## ashleyhaugh (Jun 23, 2005)

you have to be careful with preschoolers doing it right too. when i worked at a daycare, they took the sanitizer on field trips to use if there wasnt a place to wash hands before meals. the director went on one and realized that the kids werent being supervised properly, and were using too much then not rubbing it in well enough and were pretty much eating globs of alcohol on the sandwiches


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I carry a little travel sized bottle of hand santizer with me in my purse in case were in situation where I'd like to "clean" but have no use of a sink... Its been at least a year and the bottle hardly been used. I'm pretty much with you I think simple handwashing with regular (not antibacterial) soap is best. I'm not as worried about the santizer though DD school also uses it like before snacks and lunch but she also gets plently of germ exposure so I'm not too worried.

Deanna


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

I got to thinking later...I will admit to using it after washing my hands in a public bathroom...but, goodness, you have NO idea what other people have touched with dirty hands.


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## SweetPotato (Apr 29, 2006)

I guess I'm in the minority here-- I love it- think it's great! The brands that I've seen don't have triclosan in them (colds, etc. are viral, not bacterial, so antibac wouldn't do a thing)- they're just high alcohol, which evaporates away, drying up the little virus- cracking the membranes on them so they can't infect you- at least that's my understanding. Simply drying the viruses won't cause any superbugs. My dh works in the medical field and they use sanitizer liberally-- actually preferring it to soap and water I believe, because the constant handwashing with soap and hot water is so harsh. As long as kids aren't eating the actual gel, the alcohol is evaporating off very quickly. And, with a group of little kids being on their own washing in the potty- I totally wouldn't think twice about having them sanitize again before eating-- all it takes is for one child to not wash well an dthen touch the handle of the bathroom door for them all to be exposed (but then, I don't send my kid to preschool yet, in part because I don't think we need all the germs!- so I guess it's somewhat to be expected!) And I don't know why sanitizer would get in the septic tank?


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## party_of_seven (May 10, 2004)

I love the stuff too. With 5 kids it is a PITA when someone gets sick because it will undoubtedly work it's way through the whole house leaving us sick for weeks. I keep a bottle of it in the car, and all of the kids get a little squirt each time we get in after we have gone into a store etc. It has helped us out a LOT. We are getting much fewer colds now.


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

I never, ever use hand sanitizer nor do I use commercial antimicrobial soap at home. I don't even care if our hands get thoroughly washed really, except after touching raw meat or something toxic. No Lysol or bleach either in this house, just vinegar+water for most surfaces. My family and I are at least as healthy as the next family and as healthy or moreso compared to when we used antibacterial liquid soap and commercial cleaning products.


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## LizD (Feb 22, 2002)

There is evidence that proper use of alcohol-based hand sanitizers is better for pre-op surgical preparation. Handwashing gets the bacteria off, but alcohol denatures their cell walls and kills them.

Proper hand hygiene, whether a thorough washing or thorough use of sanitizer (most people do not follow through on the "thorough!"), is the single most effective measure against transmitting pathogens. Remember it's not just your robust healthy family; there are a lot of immuno-compromised people around.

I also don't see how vast quantities of sanitizer are getting into septic tanks (?!). Or did this refer to antibacterial soap? In that case I'd suggest you flush those packets or granules of enzymes every once in a while.

As far as creating resistant strains of bacteria, that has been done partly through overuse of antibiotics, with which we are all familiar, but only a year or two after the development of penicillin, there were resistant strains of bacteria...that's what bacteria do. They're marvelously successful organisms.


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

It's actually taught in the ServSafe curriculum for resteraunt managers that you should only use hand sanitizer AFTER washing with soap and water! That said, we do keep a bottle in the car/diaper bag for times when there is no soap and water available. I figure it's better than nothing.


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

I'm not super big into the hand-sanitizer thing, but if I were a preschool teacher (and exposed to every nasty germ a class full of kids might be harboring) I might feel differently.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JamieCatheryn* 
I never, ever use hand sanitizer nor do I use commercial antimicrobial soap at home. I don't even care if our hands get thoroughly washed really, except after touching raw meat or something toxic. No Lysol or bleach either in this house, just vinegar+water for most surfaces. My family and I are at least as healthy as the next family and as healthy or moreso compared to when we used antibacterial liquid soap and commercial cleaning products.

yup, same here. I can't recall the last time I ever used hand sanitizer and I am pretty sure I've never bought any. _Maybe_ years ago after my first baby was born, to keep in the diaper bag. Lysol and such actually make me feel ill. Very healthy kiddos, too...ever been to a "sick child visit", actually









eta: except I do wash my hands frequently. It's not because I fear germs though, I just can't stand my hands being dirty... if that makes sense







my kids are not so big on hand washing, though.


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## SweetPotato (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemyavery* 
It's actually taught in the ServSafe curriculum for resteraunt managers that you should only use hand sanitizer AFTER washing with soap and water!

This totally makes sense, since germs aren't the only things that you don't want in your food! Sanitizer won't get dirt off your hands-- it only kills the germs (so I guess, technically, you'd have dead germs on your hands- kinda yucky when you think about it like that!) We used to live in a house with lead paint and washed our hands with soap and water ALL THE TIME-- because sanitizer won't do anything to get lead dust off your hands. We use sanitizer when we've been handling shopping cart handles or when dd has been playing on the kids' computers at the library or at the indoor playground at our mall-- at those time I'm not worried bout dirt so much as germs- there's a big difference. But I'm glad that food service workers are being taught to remove both of them before preparing my food!


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## lovbeingamommy (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LizD* 
Handwashing gets the bacteria off, but alcohol denatures their cell walls and kills them.

Proper hand hygiene, whether a thorough washing or thorough use of sanitizer (most people do not follow through on the "thorough!"), is the single most effective measure against transmitting pathogens. Remember it's not just your robust healthy family; there are a lot of immuno-compromised people around.









: I am 100% for handwashing as by far the best protection against pathogens. However, I would venture a guess that most people do not know how to wash hands properly. The importance being on using enough friction to create a lather and washing between fingers, under rings, etc. Then thoroughly washing off soap and NOT splashing everywhere that which you just washed off - kids have a habit of doing this.









However, when water/soap aren't available (at least 62% alcohol-based hand sanitizer is the second best) I keep this in my purse, car, and at work. The only thing that bothered me for a while was the concern with the toxic inactive ingredients in some of these products. That's why I was absolutely thrilled when I happened upon HAND SANZ by a company in New Hampshire. It contains: water, hydroxyethyl cellulose (wood cellulose) vegetable glycerin, aloe vera, Vit e, grapefruit/orange/lime seed oil complex and food grade colorant and of course 62% ethyl alcohol. They have a great wesbite too.


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## beru (Nov 19, 2007)

I am a researcher at a hospital. We sometimes see patients from the hospital. We had someone from the epidemiology section come see us and give us a class on infection control. Washing your hands with soap and water is more effective at containing the spread of infections. The reason workers at my hospital "prefer" the sanitizer is that their hands dry out less than if they wash their hands every 15 minutes. (They researched several sanitizers to find one that contained moisturizers...) When I see research patients, I wash my hands. I only see 1 to 3 per day so I don't get dry hands. Also, the fact that people do not wash their hands correctly does not, to me, seem like a reason to use sanitizer. The same people will be ineffective at spreading the product around their hands.

Also, the hospital does not allow the use of "antibacterial" products in public areas. They don't use triclosan in the public bathrooms or even outpatient clinic bathrooms. They don't use it in their dish soap or other cleaning supplies, etc. It promotes antibiotic resistance. They do use bleach and stuff like that which completely destroys the germs and does not promote antibiotic resistance.

Besides, what's good for a hospital is not necessarily good for your home and personal life. You need germs in your life whereas in a hospital that's not the case.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

I work Labor/Delivery as an RN and sometimes I HAVE to use sanitizer because I am not in an area of soap and water and it BURNS like hell....especially on hands that are chapped and cracked from washing them more than 200 times a day already. OUCH!!!! I hate that stuff!!!!!!!!


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## kneedeepnkidz (Jul 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlmostAPpropriate* 
funny... Honestly, Im not in the camp who thinks all germs must be erradicated. So for me, wiping off the dirt is enough sometimes.

I am so with you here. I think the overuse of this stuff is actually making our kids sicker. We are taking away their bodies ability to build antibodies and the germs that would make us just a little sick get stronger. Same principle as using antibiotics. I hate that schools use it at all. Even if my kid were to have some dirt or germs on his hands when he eats, its not likely to kill him, and more probably will help him build resistance.

I was at a football game the other night, and a mom was there with her two LO's. Probably 18 mos and 4 yrs. Anyway, every time they touched something, the seats, the arm rests, etc., she slathered that stuff on them. I wonder how much her kids are sick?


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

We all have immune systems so we should let them do their jobs. If I washed and scrubbed every time I got dirty and my girls got dirty I would not get anything done except washing hands.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
We all have immune systems so we should let them do their jobs. If I washed and scrubbed every time I got dirty and my girls got dirty I would not get anything done except washing hands.


right. and I agree with you in most cases. however, there are some people (my newborn daughter last year after heart surgery, for example) whose immune systems are not working as well as they should. We used hand sanitizer sometimes last year. We were trying to avoid getting anyone in teh house sick, because if it spread to my (fully breastfed) baby, she would end up in the hospital. This year, we don't.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
right. and I agree with you in most cases. however, there are some people (my newborn daughter last year after heart surgery, for example) whose immune systems are not working as well as they should. We used hand sanitizer sometimes last year. We were trying to avoid getting anyone in teh house sick, because if it spread to my (fully breastfed) baby, she would end up in the hospital. This year, we don't.

Oh heavens if I had a newborn with heart surgery I would be doing the same thing. Absolutely. (Exceptions to every rule







)


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beru* 
Also, the hospital does not allow the use of "antibacterial" products in public areas. They don't use triclosan in the public bathrooms or even outpatient clinic bathrooms. They don't use it in their dish soap or other cleaning supplies, etc. It promotes antibiotic resistance. They do use bleach and stuff like that which completely destroys the germs and does not promote antibiotic resistance.

It seems like EVERYWHERE I go lately (doc's office, restaurant, etc...) has antibacterial soap in the dispenser. And most of the soaps I find that my nose can stand (usually bath and body works) have triclosan in them. Is it okay to use this through pregnancy and switch back? Or do I need to find something else?


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## Landover (Oct 12, 2007)

I use it when we are leaving a play area such as the ones at the mall or a resturant. I also use it when DS gets in the car after preschool (mainly because he sits next to DD and always wants to hold her hand). I figure I might just kill the stomach virus sometimes, and it doesn't hurt anything.










We had a stomach bug go through all friends and family a couple of years back, and I have learned to respect those monsters!


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

I have a minibottle of the stuff I got when DD was born, since it was suggested as something to have if someone like came out of the bathroom without washing their hands and then wanted to hold the baby or something... and I've packed it in our park bag for just-in-case times... and I don't think I've used it once. Oh wait, I think one time I cleaned up dog poo someone left right on the playground, used a plastic bag and then was glad to rinse my hands with the stuff. And one time I think I lent it to another mama. I got one that is not antibac, at least. I am all about washing hands regularly, but honestly we mostly figure it's all gonna make us stronger. We are just fine, ya know?


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## leerypolyp (Feb 22, 2005)

Hand sanitizer is NOT triclosan! This drives me crazy -- my MIL always buys antibacterial dish and hand soap, but sniffs at my hand sanitizer because of "all the chemicals" -- well, usually the only chemical in there is alcohol!

Alcohol, btw, doesn't cause resistant bacteria and doesn't contaminate water supply or damage septic tanks. I'm the biggest anti-antibacterial lady out there, and rarely use antibiotics even, but I think hand sanitizer is a good, good thing. Especially in institutional settings.

If you're really good at washing your hands properly EVERY TIME, more power to you. In a preschool setting, I'd be thrilled at the use of hand sanitizer AFTER handwashing -- that way they're learning good handwashing habits, but you have an extra layer of protection.


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JamieCatheryn* 
I never, ever use hand sanitizer nor do I use commercial antimicrobial soap at home. I don't even care if our hands get thoroughly washed really, except after touching raw meat or something toxic. No Lysol or bleach either in this house, just vinegar+water for most surfaces. My family and I are at least as healthy as the next family and as healthy or moreso compared to when we used antibacterial liquid soap and commercial cleaning products.

ITA - I'm the same. We wash hands after poos, and after touching raw meat, and also after coming home from anywhere the kids have touched anything (shopping cart, etc) but only because they have severe food allergies and get reactions from contact and residual allergic protein.


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## MoonJelly (Sep 10, 2004)

The alcohol ones have to be 67% or over to be effective and to meet the OSHA, CDC and APIC guidelines.

_None_ of the ones you find in stores have this amount of alcohol so are basically worthless and a waste of money. You can order the 67% or over ones online. Triad is one of the commerical-strength brands that meets the standard. I don't use the stuff a lot but I do keep some around for when I am not near soap and water.


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## abharrington (Jun 30, 2007)

SweetPotato said:


> ... Sanitizer won't get dirt off your hands-- it only kills the germs (so I guess, technically, you'd have dead germs on your hands- kinda yucky when you think about it like that!)QUOTE]
> 
> thought i would point out that "you" are made up of more bacteria cells than human cells, and the majority of those are living! a few dead ones aren't gonna hurt you.
> 
> ...


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