# 9 yr daughter crying all night!! WHAT THE HECK TO DO??



## LDSmomma6

She is crying all night!! What in the heck do I do without beating the child? She is crying for no reason. Will not sleep. Says she is scared. Scared of what?? All daughters sleep in the same room, and are accross the hall! It's not like I am on the other side of the house. Been going on for almost 2 weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She wants to take sleeping medicine? Where did she get that idea? I am so ticked off!! I can't take it anymore. She won't sleep. Not even when I'm in there. All she does is cry. Won't shut her mouth!!

Sorry, for sounding upset...I am so lacking sleep that I am at my wits end!! Of course keeping other kids up all night too. And then I am tired and not patient during the day time.

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## PikkuMyy

Ignore this: "Would you care to elaborate? I'm sorry she's so sad." because when I first read the thread, there wasn't any content showing besides the title.

When I was that age, I was at a friend's house for trick-or-treating and before we went, the radio was on and a commercial from some horror movie came on. We didn't have TV and I rarely went to the movies. The movie was something about a killer who came and slit people's throats in the night.

That scared me so much that I slept with the blankets pulled up to my mouth for a very long time (months). I knew it was just a movie but it still scared me so much that I coudln't help thinking about it at night. I lay there terrified night after night and never told my mother. Perhaps I thought I was silly to be so scared, at my age, of something I knew wasn't real. But all the same, it really affected me.

Perhaps something like this has happened?


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## jeca

she won't tell you at all what's wrong with her?can anyone eslse talk to her in case she embaressed to tell you or something.


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## wonderfulmom

Could you tell us some of the things that you have tried that didn't help?


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## Overproducktion

I have no advice, but I feel bad for your dd and you. I hope you both get some sleep and find out what is troubling her.


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## Overproducktion

Wanted to add...

What about some Sleepy Time Tea?


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## captain optimism

Two weeks? She's nine and can't tell you what's wrong (or you don't say that she has) and she's asking you for "medicine." hmmm. It sounds like she would like to stop crying and go to sleep, and can't.

Do you have a doctor or other health care professional that you really trust who can help you figure out if there is an organic cause?

Another idea: can you do a relaxation tape/exercise from a book/thingie of your own devising with her, at bedtime? Maybe she needs a lot of extra bedtime routine to go to sleep. Is the room dark? Is it cool?

My neighbor's child had a lot of trouble sleeping until this year, and he's 10. He would wake up and need to tell his mom that he was getting a drink of water, for example. It sounded like when a little baby gets up and needs his mom, but translated to a big, verbal kid. She had to be really patient and work out a lot of compromises with him and ways to help him stay asleep. He can get very nervous and worked up about the events of the day. I can ask her more about how she helped him to get more sleep.


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## Olive

I think maybe you should stop focusing on how this is affecting you and start focusing on what is wrong with your daughter. Obviously something is bothering her. It is YOUR job as her mother to not treat her like a baby just because she's crying. You should not be taking it out on her. I can't believe it's been going on for 2 weeks and you've not made an appt with a doctor or at the very least taken her to see a counselor.







:


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## huggerwocky

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Olive*
I think maybe you should stop focusing on how this is affecting you and start focusing on what is wrong with your daughter. Obviously something is bothering her. It is YOUR job as her mother to not treat her like a baby just because she's crying. You should not be taking it out on her. I can't believe it's been going on for 2 weeks and you've not made an appt with a doctor or at the very least taken her to see a counselor.







:


oh please, isn't that a little too much?

I think at age 9 it should be possible to make a compromise and I even consider the possibility she just wants some extra attention...


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## ~Sparklefly~

Your daughter has told you what is wrong. She's scared. You showing obvoius signs of anger towards her for being scared is teaching her a very sad lesson - not to come to you when she's upset.

Take her to a counselor. She doesn't want to talk to you about what's wrong and, after what you've said your reaction is to her, I don't blame her. Give her the opportunity to speak with someone who wants to get to the bottom of what's bothering her since you don't seem willing to.

Being a parent means dealing with sleepless nights, even when your kids are out of diapers.


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## Tani

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Sparklefly~*
Your daughter has told you what is wrong. She's scared. You showing obvoius signs of anger towards her for being scared is teaching her a very sad lesson - not to come to you when she's upset.

Take her to a counselor. She doesn't want to talk to you about what's wrong and, after what you've said your reaction is to her, I don't blame her. Give her the opportunity to speak with someone who wants to get to the bottom of what's bothering her since you don't seem willing to.

Being a parent means dealing with sleepless nights, even when your kids are out of diapers.

What Sparklefly said.

I seriously doubt that if it were a play for extra attention that it would last TWO WEEKS.







If it were me, I'd be thinking back over the last month or so about where she had been, who she had been with, and if there were any other changes in her behavior, appearance, habits... That's what mothers do.


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## Olive

Hugger, I have no doubt that attention is wanted from this child, but what she needs is positive attention from her parents and from someone who can help her get through whatever is bothering her. EVERY NIGHT FOR TWO WEEKS. Don't you find that to be extreme for it to just start all of a sudden?


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## tracymom

I would be concerned that it is something physical/psychological that needs attention from a medical professional. There has to be a reason she has started doing this. Hope you both can get some help and sleep soon.


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## ~Sparklefly~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *huggerwocky*
I think at age 9 it should be possible to make a compromise and I even consider the possibility she just wants some extra attention...


What kind of compromise do you want her child to make? She's told her mother that she is scared. Her mother, in turn, is angry with her for crying and trying to express what she's upset about.

Two weeks is a freaking ETERNITY for a 9 year old. If you think Mom is tired and cranky, how do you think her child feels? Her daughter does want attention. Something serious is bothering her. And it's quite important to remember that she is a 9 year old girl - things that frighten and upset a 9 year old girl are not things that most adults would find earth shattering and horribly upsetting.

Take the child to a counselor so she can express, in a non-hostile environment, what is bothering her.


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## TiredX2

That sounds just horrible all around. I am so sorry your family is going through this.

Has anything changed in the last couple weeks? Camp? Dad out more than usual? Upcoming school stress? Sleepovers? Anything you can think of.

Have you asked DD during the day what is wrong? What she would like to happen? Would a light help? Sharing a bed (I was unsure if she shares a bed or just a room)? Calming music or being read to before bed? A cup of tea or a warm bath?

I would, honestly, be very concerned if my child cried for two straight weeks. Is this within "normal" for your DD? Has anything like this ever happened before? Does she have the writing skill to be able to write down what is wrong? Draw a picture? Tell the family pet (ANYONE)?








Good luck and let us know what happens. I don't know what a biological/organic cause of this, but if she is happy to go to the doctor, I would encourage that.


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## Emilie

I had terrible times sleeping as a child. I still do some of the time.
I feel for your daughter and for you.
It sounds like there is something wrong here- and there needs to be SOMETHING done about it.
What is she like during the day? Is she upset then- withdrawn- inactive- different,Etc??
Does she actually fall asleep and how? please relax and try to find out what is going on...
Your daughter is obviously in a state of turmoil for whatever reason- please help her and keep us posted.


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## Overproducktion

LDSmomma6 may have been to tired to elaborate on the subject and maybe just needed to vent. Maybe she has plans to take dd in to see a doctor...etc. Or maybe they cannot afford one. She will probably give us more details when she gets back on MDC. I do not know her situation AT ALL, but it sounds like she needs our support right now. But, I do know that she sounds very stressed and tired.


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## Tani

My biggest concern here would be that she is being abused in some way, when not on your watch. I desperately hope that is not what it is. Poor kid.


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## Emilie

Umm- had to add- please do not beat the child. What would that solve. I am very alarmed that you would even post that. I understand that you are at your wits end- but beating the child is NOT an option.
Em


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## Yummymummy74

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Olive*
Hugger, I have no doubt that attention is wanted from this child, but what she needs is positive attention from her parents and from someone who can help her get through whatever is bothering her. EVERY NIGHT FOR TWO WEEKS. Don't you find that to be extreme for it to just start all of a sudden?


So what are you saying Olive??

Sorry have to say ..I have a daughter of similar age who mysteriously gets stomach pains at night...







This started a few years back..sometimes she goes a long time with no issues but if shes not going to bed when she wants to (very late) and is being told to go to bed at a certain time she can be VERY disruptive and I have heard all kinds of clever excuses from her.

I think counselling is REALLY jumping the gun..and a doc is not going to help for the *scared* thing.

Of course all kids are different, but some 9 and 10 year olds can be VERY melodramatic.

How old are your kids Olive?? Do you have a preteen? and would you want someone to imply you were a *bad mother* for being exhusted and sleep deprived for two weeks?? sounds like the original poster is a concerned caring mama who is trying hard to find out whats up.

Maybe you could sound a bit less judgemental.


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## kaykayken

I was think abuse also








you should really support your dd when in need of help.


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## Whodatbe

Have you considered maybe talking to the child in a calm rational manner? Do you honestly think yelling at her to "shut up and go to sleep" is making her feel any better? She is probably needing reassurance and you yelling at her is only belittling her fears. You need to face them head on with her and be there for her.

I can understand sleep deprivation..I'm there myself but what did you expect? You have several children who need tending to and sounds like you're spread thin. Either get some help with the kids so you can catch up on sleep or take your daughter to a doctor so you all can figure out what is making her be so scared.

It's better to solve the problem than roll over,go back to sleep and ignore it. That's just cold and heartless.


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## Overproducktion

Hmmmm...lots of new members all of a sudden.


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## mammaguess

1st: You are in a state of sleep deprivation and so is your daughter. It sounds serious but until you both get some sleep it will be like the dog chasing its tail....going nowhere.

2nd: What happened 2-3 weeks ago? Where did she go, what did she watch, who did she spend time with?

You need a third party to help you. You need to get some sleep. Do you have a support system that would allow you to get a 2-4 hr nap?? Get some sleep now, so that you can think clearly and be able to help your daughter.

Help your daughter, she sounds terrified and unless she a drama queen who is willling to suffer no matter what then it is unlikely to be an act.










eta-there is a huge difference between child abuse and what is going on here. all these new members are kind of weird







:


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## Overproducktion

Whodatbe---Where did she post that she has yelled at her dd?!







: She FEELS like yelling because she is stressed! She never said that to her dd!!!


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## Olive

Tani, I agree. While it could be something school related or friend related, it COULD be abuse related. At any rate, something other than what's being done should be done. Children have ways of asking for help. This sounds like her way of saying, "Hey Mommy, I'm in trouble here...HELP!"

And as far as being too judgmental, I would think we're adult enough here that the concern would be for the daughter not the mother first and foremost.

No I do not have a preteen. Mine is almost 3 years old and I've had my share of sleepless nights, not to mention chronic insomnia since I was a child.

When I cried myself to sleep at night as a child, there was a reason for it. I wanted my mother to hear me and ask me what was wrong. She chose to ignore it, unfortunately for me. This mother is hearing the crying but is responding negatively to it, which is no better.


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## ~Sparklefly~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happymomwith4*
I do not know her situation AT ALL, but it sounds like she needs our support right now. But, I do know that she sounds very stressed and tired.

It sounds like her child needs support right now and, since she's the one sobbing every night for the last two weeks, she is very stressed and tired. Mom is the adult. It's her job to make sure her child is healthy, both mentally and physically.

Does being a relativly new member mean we're not allowed to have opinions on things we read here?


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## Overproducktion

Um no.....I have just never seen so many new members in one spot in one night....sorry for making a note of it.

And I know that her dd should come first---but good grief!!







:


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## tracymom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happymomwith4*
Hmmmm...lots of new members all of a sudden.

Umm......

doggone it! Where's that troll smilie? I thought I was finally going to get to use it.

I haven't seen that many new members in one place ever either - except the night we got invaded by trolls.

No offense intended to honest, real new MDC-ers.


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## Whodatbe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happymomwith4*
Whodatbe---Where did she post that she has yelled at her dd?!







: She FEELS like yelling because she is stressed! She never said that to her dd!!!

My bad I thought I read she yelled at the daughter. Misread it in my state of sleep deprivation.









But I wouldnt doubt she is yelling at the child since it's very obvious that she is frustrated with the whole situation. Any parent would be if they were constantly woke up. But instead of *ignoring* the issue dont you think she should at least address it...maybe just maybe she would get some decent sleep if she did. Just my thought.


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## TiredX2

All that being a new member means is that you have *no idea* about the person you are advising. Generally, on these boards you can assume the person is not screaming, beating, etc... their child.

She's asking for help, for advice, a hand. What to do. She is probably just as scared and lost as any parent would be in this situation. If her solution was to roll over and sleep through it she wouldn't be tired
















LDSmomma6


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## Emilie

Sparklefly- I do not think that she meant that like that- at least I hope not!!!
I have found the moms here to be wonderful and helpful...
I am a relatively new member myself- and it was kinda different seeing all new members on the list tonight! I for one am glad that you are here!
Back to the topic at hand.
I may have come off sounding harsh-
and I apologize.
I hope that you can get to the bottom of what is wrong.
I was a melodramatic child- tho that did not mean that the feelings I was having were not REAL feelings. I found throughout growing up my parents would dismiss any of my feelings as being overly dramatic- but most of the time I was reacting to DRAMATIC situations.
Anyhow- My heart goes out to both you and your daughter.
Emilie


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## Whodatbe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
All that being a new member means is that you have *no idea* about the person you are advising. Generally, on these boards you can assume the person is not screaming, beating, etc... their child.

She's asking for help, for advice, a hand. What to do. She is probably just as scared and lost as any parent would be in this situation. If her solution was to roll over and sleep through it she wouldn't be tired
















LDSmomma6

Seems to me she is rolling over and ignoring it if it has been going on for TWO WEEKS!


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## ~Sparklefly~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happymomwith4*
I know that her dd should come first---but good grief!!







:

Good grief what? I'm not understanding why you're upset. She may come back tomorrow to claify what she posted today but until then all we have to work with is what she told us. And what's that? She is outwardly angry at her daughter for being emotionally upset by something. Instead of posting, "Help me figure out what's wrong with my daughter!" she was upset that she's been disrupting the sleep patterns of the other people in the house.

Yes, I understand the frustration. I have two kids, ages 8 and 6, and when one is having a bad night, everyone has a bad night. But it's part of being a mom - dealing with stuff like this. It's not fun, it's irritating at times, but you do what you have to do and get to the bottom of the problem, not get angry.

If the child is unwilling to discuss her fears with her mom then I don't see why suggesting counseling is a problem.


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## Olive

Sorry, but the OP sounds as if she is more irritated with how the daughter's crying is affecting the household than she is concerned with what is wrong with her daughter.


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## Overproducktion

I've read the LDS mama's post before, and this is not like her. She is obviously stressed. She asked us for help. Being snarky and making her feel like crap is NOT going to help her.

All I'm saying is that we do not know how much she HAS done to help her dd. She may have started typing to rant about the current situation and didn't go into much detail because she didn't have the time--I don't know. I have 4 children, and I lots of sleepless nights, and at times it can make me really grumpy.

This mama came to MDC asking for help. So, let's give her ideas, websites, books, herbs, phone numbers etc.


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## savannah smiles

Where is that troll smilie?


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## BusyMommy

Well, maybe a dr. is in order. Sometimes kids talk more openly to an "outsider" about things; ie. as a teacher, I have lots of kids confiding in me.

Do her sisters have any idea? Could you take them aside and ask them what's going on?

I'd ask dh to share the night time responsibilities so you can get some more rest, too.

Good luck!

And, if the sudden rash of new members is genuine, then good on you. But, they seem to take a similar tone and read things into the OP that never happened; ie. yelling and beating? Where the heck did that come from? Gee, I'll have to go peek at the intro forum and read all the intros I missed









Olive--how many kids do you have? I'm sure you have lots and have experienced many sleepless nights w/them, but gosh you're coming across kind of harsh.


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## ~Sparklefly~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savannah smiles*
Where is that troll smilie?

If people were trolling don't you think they'd be telling her to dose her kid up on Nyquil or vodka?







I've seen nothing but good advice on this thread. I haven't seen anyone telling her that she's a horrid or evil mother. I'd say calling troll on this is stretching just a bit.


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## Yummymummy74

happymomwith4 said:


> I've read the LDS mama's post before, and this is not like her. She is obviously stressed. She asked us for help. Being snarky and making her feel like crap is NOT going to help her.
> 
> I have too! thanks for saything this...this is supposed to be a place of support away from the mainstream judgment alot of us face...
> 
> I am a newer member as well but ...some of those posts were really rubbing me the wrong way.


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## Olive

I never mentioned yelling or beating. I just think there should be more concern for the daughter than for the mother. Yes, sleepless nights suck! But the daughter isn't getting sleep either AND there is something wrong.


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## Emilie

Man- this is getting hot. Lets all take a breather. I keep thinking what this mom is going to think when she wakes up and checks this again...
Emilie


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## mommymushbrain

Not gonna even try to wade through what some other's posters have written, but my first thoughts.... PUBERTY.


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## ~Sparklefly~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommymushbrain*
Not gonna even try to wade through what some other's posters have written, but my first thoughts.... PUBERTY.

Hmmm. Is it possible that she started her period (yeah, she's 9 and it's early, but it does happen) and she's freaked out?


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## Overproducktion

Quote:

But the daughter isn't getting sleep either AND there is something wrong.
Yes, ITA. I just hope we can help the mama get that help.


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## Yummymummy74

OLIVE "It is YOUR job as her mother to not treat her like a baby just because she's crying. You should not be taking it out on her. I can't believe it's been going on for 2 weeks and you've not made an appt with a doctor or at the very least taken her to see a counselor. "

Look at that! like what is that Olive? can you get any freaking more judgmental????? condescending????

eeks the few months I have been here I have NEVER read something so nasty to someone who is looking for support..please tell me this is not to be expected in general







:


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## Overproducktion

My niece started hers at 9....

I'll have to talk to my SIL and see if any like this happened. (she has 3 girls) But of course every child's experience is different. Good point though.


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## Emilie

Seriously mamas- lets chill out... it is late and we are all getting way to fired up.
Most likely this mama is laying in bed with her 9 year old trying to help her....
I will admit at first I was a little freaked by her post and you can read my posts to see that- but lets take a step back and stop this right now....
These are new members- and we were all there once too- me not too long ago- this is not how we want to be portraying ourselves is it!?


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## mommymushbrain

Sparklefly... while that could be a possibility, I'm thinking more like the daughter may be getting ready to. I know a lot of us females exhibit "PMS" symptoms before the onset of our own periods.... and while I haven't fully experienced it yet, my oldest is only 8... I do see a pattern of my daughter's "mood swings" every so often, like it is prepping her for the onset of puberty, menstruation, etc.


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## ~Sparklefly~

I was 13 when I started my period. I knew all about sex, birds, bees, female anatomy, what exactly my body was doing and it *still* freaked me right out. I can't imagine being so young and dealing with body changing issues. Let's hope it's something simple like that.


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## LavenderMae

I think it's obvious the lack of sleep has taken its toll on the whole family. I feel concerned for your daughter as well and I hope you are able to figure out what has gotten her so stressed out. Maybe something does have her really scared. I would try to talk to her and figure out what's going on. If she won't talk to you maybe she'll talk to a grandparent or someone else she is close to. Do you think it would help if she was able to sleep with you or one of her sibling for a little while. I think I would take more serious measures if she continues to be this upset (like taking her to see a counselor), something is going on with her.

KayKayKen, such a clever username.







:


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## Overproducktion

I remember for a month before I started my period I was emotional, crampy, and just not myself...so yeah, maybe that is what it is.

Or, it could have been some thing on TV. I watched Nightmare on Elm Street when I was little and I wasn't supposed to. It scared the crap out of me....and I couldn't sleep. But then again, I was only 6.

Heck, I don't know. I'm picking my brain......


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## LavenderMae

sm!!!!


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## tboroson

Yes, the rash of brand new members on this thread is very curious. It's notable to see one brand new member floating around. Seeing so many on a single thread is... frustrating. Not because ya'll aren't welcome to opinions (as long as you are truely not trolls, anyway,) but, because you clearly do *not* know the community and it's individuals yet. As such, it's counterproductive and offensive for you to offer cruel criticisms of a well established member based on two paragraphs of information about her, her children and her attitude. Waltzing in and insulting a well liked member of the community doesn't make folks want to welcome you to our midst with open arms.

Many of us who've been around longer, whether we've been here for three years and only have 500 posts to our names, or been around for six months and have 4000, readily recognise names and family situations such as LDSmomma6 and know full well that she is not a nasty person who would yell at her kids for hurting. We also know that this is a place where mamas frequently come to let off steam when life and kids get super frustrating, rather than letting that steam off *at* the kids. That, I suspect, is what this fine lady was trying to accomplish.

Furthermore, while it's true that she is the adult and the parent to this child, please note that she is *also* the parent to five other children, all of whom need her and all of whom are being affected by this one child's sudden extreme needs. That doesn't diminish the 9 yo's needs in any way, but it *does* pile far more responsibility on this poor mama, not to mention stress. Clearly she's been making an effort to solve her child's problem and is highly frustrated with her failure to come to any understanding of it, leading her to ask us all for help or at least sympathy. And, well, your criticisms don't count as either help or sympathy.

So, mama, vent away. Some of us are listening to you and not imposing our own agendas.


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## Overproducktion




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## candipooh

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Emilie*
Umm- had to add- please do not beat the child. What would that solve. I am very alarmed that you would even post that. I understand that you are at your wits end- but beating the child is NOT an option.
Em










Okay, posts like this are what me wonder about MDC. Did you even read her post??? Why would you just jump on that?? She said

"*What in the heck do I do without beating the child?* "

Meaning She does NOT want to beat the child. Meaning that it is NOT an option. I am so tired of reading these type of posts that seem like they are trying to pick apart someome by twisting their words. I am normally so level headed person but







I see it way too often here. This topic has a lot of it.

There is amny things that have been said on this topic that are mean, uncalled for and not helpful, what are you trying to do? (not just Emilee but everyone that feels like jumping all over OP?) If you really do want to help the 9 year old then give some advice that the OP might take. If you attack her she isn't going to listen or follow your advice. Think what you want to acomplish before you hit 'send'





























:

ETA I see a few of you said it a little better than I did.









I agree that it might be hormones. So what herbs would help to level out hormones? Red raspberry leaf is an all around good female herb. Anything else?


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## Yummymummy74

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tboroson*
.

So, mama, vent away. Some of us are listening to you and not imposing our own agendas.


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## Overproducktion

LDS--







to you. You have many mamas supporting you and your family through this tough time. Keep us updated on how your dd is doing and how you are coping. (did I spell coping right?







)


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## Emilie

Yes- I agree that that post was out of line- if you kept reading I recanted... and restated my stand on things. I was very alarmed- when I first read the post- then thought about who it was and saw remembered her from other posts and knew that this was not charecteristic- obviously....
all I was thinking was that this poor child was laying in the bed crying- as I did many nights as a child- and was worried that she was to the point of actually hitting the child...
So please go on and read all of my posts about this- because I am not trying to jump on the mom- i was alarmed... and I agree with you- this mom needs some help and us all sitting on here arguing- is not helping her at all and all I can think of is when she gets up and reads all this what she is going to think.
Emilie
Emilie


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## Emilie

I also have just gone back and read the entire post- and yes it is an alarming post to me.
for many reasons.
I know this mom is not beating her child and knows that her daughter needs something...


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## sadie_sabot

welllll, the OP was a bit, um, worrisome, but ummm, sleep deprivation is such a nasty thing. I am at my worst when I am sleep deprived.

I think the crying is worrisome. I'm trying to remember being 9 years old, and yea, 9 year olds can be dramatic but this does seem extreme.

As others have said, i'd say making it clar that you are concerned, not angry, and doing what it takes to make space for her to express what she's afraid of should help. I really hope you're able to get to the bottom of it, both for you, for her, and the rest of the family.


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## calmom

(QUOTE) But I wouldnt doubt she is yelling at the child since it's very obvious that she is frustrated with the whole situation. Any parent would be if they were constantly woke up.

***Who here can say they have never yelled at their children? Geez..... I'm frustrated with my children quite a bit and I sometimes say things *to other adults* about how annoyed I am that I wouldn't say to my child! Seems like you're taking things from her post that weren't there.

But instead of *ignoring* the issue dont you think she should at least address it...maybe just maybe she would get some decent sleep if she did. Just my thought.[/QUOTE]
***Hello! She's not ignoring it. She's asking for help!

I haven't read all the posts here yet but all these "new members" with their critical posts is really irritating me.

LDSmomma, I'm sending positive thoughts your way. I don't really have any answers for you. My 9 year old has been crying a lot lately and seems very emotional but not at night. Good luck to you!

christie


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## Midnightowl

When I was around 7-8, I started having terrible anxiety attacks about school, and I was afraid to talk to my mother about it because I thought she would be disappointed in me. We had a great relationship, but I was just unable to express those feelings verbally at that age.

Obviously something is weighing heavily on your daughter's heart. I would be very diligent in trying to think of who she has been in the presence of lately. If you can't think of anything that might have affected her personally, try to think of what might be going on in her circle of friends. Could she be worried about a friend in trouble or needing help?

I always found it easist to talk to my mother when we were alone in the car. Maybe you could ask some open-ended questions letting her know you will still love her no matter what...

In the meantime, have you tried letting her sleep on a pallet on the floor in your room? Maybe the change of scenery would help.

I hope both of you find some peace soon...


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## FullCream

ldsmomma, the whole situation sounds awful. I think that an outside opinion is warranted (especially if you have talked to your DD about the issue and have tried relaxation methods, herbal teas etc without any improvements). Homeopathy can be really good for tackling the emotional aspects of a lack of 'balance' as well as any physical problems.

As an aside, I am an infrequent poster but regular lurker, and I was amazed to see so many new posters being so negative and unsupportive (is that a word? it looks wrong!). It wasn't at all what I have come to expect from mdc.


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## pamamidwife

I would be totally concerned about her personal safety. Sometimes it's nothing, like a scary movie, etc. Other times it could be more serious.

I have a good friend who still has night issues because she was sexually abused at night by her father. I'm not saying that's what is going on here, but the magnitude could be as much.

I know that you'll listen to her. Just don't assume that she's doing this TO YOU. She needs you.


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## SabrinaJL

I have a 10 year old dd and lately there have been times when she comes into our room in the middle of the night crying. Sometimes she says she's lonely but usually she says she doesn't know why she's crying. I've chalked it up to puberty and on nights like that I let her climb in bed with us. She's usually comforted by that and fine the next day.


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## Katie's Momma

I started to read all the posts but they were getting pretty heated, so I skipped the rest. So my answers may be repeats...

My thoughts are:

she is hormonal - she is getting to the point in her life where her period could start - maybe her body is preparing and she is experiencing hormones and feeling she never has before

perhaps she has recently heard a brutal story or seen pictures or a movie - when I was young I had night after night of recurring AWFUL dreams that were triggered by things I had seen on tv or heard in the news. They may seem trivial to a parent, but as a young girl - I was mortified. My parents said that I would actually revert back to a small baby and that I would suck my thumb and curl up into a ball and rock while they tried to comfort my crying.

maybe she is being teased or bullied at school

maybe someone is abusing her


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## mom2x

A friend's dd, my little sister, and dh all went through something like this between 7 and 9. My sister was so terrified that she wouldn't be able to fall asleep that she would keep herself up all night worrying about it. Dh thought that he would forget to breathe and would lay there monitoring his own every breath. It passed in all 3 cases but I don't think that the parents had anything to do w/ it. I don't have a 9yo yet - just know some people who used to be 9







- but maybe some kind of calming bedtime routine, the sleepytime tea was a good suggestion.


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## lorijds

I'm sorry, I thought this was Mothering Dot Com, not Only-For-Perfect-Parents Dot Com. I think one or two of you are in the wrong place!









LDSmama, here are my thoughts...

I have an extremely emotionally sensitive 9 year old. If something hurts her feelings, she will oftentimes let it snowball to a two hour crying jag at night. She simply can't help it. This happens especially if she gets overly tired. She says she starts thinking of all the bad things that has ever happened to her, and she just gets so sad she can't do anything but cry. No amount of comfort, in any form, helps. If we try to comfort her by telling her all the good things that have happened to her, all the wonderful things we love about her, she just gets more upset. We can't physically lay down with her, as she has the top bunk and we would exceed the weight limit...

Oftentimes the only thing that works is to completely forget about bedtime (which is hard, since she shares a room with her younger sister, who will of course howl about how unfair it is the older one gets to get back up...). We give her papaya enzymes and acidophilus for her tummy (because if she cries so long, she always gets a stomach ache), and tummy mint or sleepy time tea. We tell her to go lay down in our bed, and depending upon what she wants, either one of us lays down with her, or we watch a movie with her. Sometimes she wants to take a bath with lavendar bath salts, so I will draw the bath, and then while she is in there (reading, usually) I will make her some sort of tea. Usually she calms down pretty quickly and goes to sleep then.

With our dd, it is totally hormonal/emotional. She can't even really articulate why she is freaking out. She herself oftentimes says she doesn't know why she is sad or scared or worried, and usually she has no idea what triggered it (other than being overly tired). She just is. It is extremely frustrating at times, and I can't imagine how completely frustrating it would be every night for two weeks in a row!

I second the idea of bringing someone else in. Why don't you sit down with her during the day, and ask her if she woudl like to talk to someone else about her night fears? Would she like to see the doctor; but don't make it out as if she is sick; rather tel her that alot of people go to the doctor to talk about their concerns and fears, and that doctors can be really good listeners. Then call the doc ahead of time and let them know what is going on, and that you expect the doc to be a good listener! If you have a ped who sucks at listening, though, I wouldn't even go this route.

Come up with some ideas about how to help her, and present them to her. Would a new sleeping arrangement help? Would a light help? Our kids have their own little battery operated lanterns in each bed; they don't shed light all over the room, but sort of emit a warm, contained glow. So if one girl has her light on, the other isn't disturbed by it. Would painting the room a different color help? Putting a lock on the closet door? Sleeping with the door open? Going to sleep in your bed, then being moved to her own bed? Sleeping with a sister, in the same bed? Sleeping in a sleeping bag on the floor of your room? Hanging a dream catcher near her bed? Having someone come and bless her room and her bed?

Good luck. I hope you can get to the bottom of this soon. In the mean time, I second the idea that you must get some sleep! Have a friend or grandma come over and watch the kids, put some ear plugs in, and get some sleep!

Let us know how it's going! Keep up the good work!

Lori


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## lorijds

And, excuse me, but I can't find the trolly smilie. I find it interesting that Olive, Kenkenkay, and Whodatbe all are new members, who have nothing about them in their profile, who have only posted on this thread.

Jeez, just ignore them.


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## LDSmomma6

First of all, I can't believe this has gone to 4 pages, and I haven't read them all. I was so stressed last night for not sleeping well again...that is why I posted. Maybe get the anger out in here??

She is scared. Period. If something else is wrong she won't tell me, or her dad or anyone else. I have a night light in her room, her door stays open, and she has a flashlight. She sleeps in the same bed with her 2 sisters (queen-size), and has never ever had a problem before. We talk during the day, and before bedtime about how there is nothing to be scared about, and we would never allow anything to happen to her, etc...

I do give my kids Dimetapp when my kids are sick with a cold. She knows it sometimes makes them tired and sleep better at night. BUT I HAVE NEVER given anything to them to help them sleep to just help them sleep. Where she has come up with something to help her sleep is beyond me, but since she is smart, maybe she thinks that if I gave her some, it would make her sleep? Maybe it would have calmed her down? Sure, I give it, but then she wants something the next time, and the next time... Maybe she saw the commercial on TV for Ambian (sleep medicine) that they are showing more and more on Nick, Jr. station even.

My children are happy children. We don't watch scary movies, we don't scary TV shows. Heck, she hates the Scoobie Doo scary movies. All I can think of is when she was with her cousins a few weeks ago, one of them said something scary or frightening to her.

I haven't even thought of taking her to a doctor. What type? Her pedi? I have never had this problem before.

I will admit, and I am typing this even though I know I will get bashed, I yelled at her last night after posting. I did.




























I was so upset. I had all the kids in bed, and she is crying louder and louder telling me she wants the medicine to help her sleep and she woke up Lindsey (6 months) and 2 yr old sister. It was close to 11pm. I was so upset. I yelled at her and told her to SHUT UP, AND STOP THE CRYING!!









I then got dressed. Got a crying Lindsey. And we both went to Walmart where I sat in the closed McD's where it was dark, and nursed Lindsey while I calmed down. Before I left, DH was like Where are you going?? I said I had to leave before I lost it.

I got home at midnight, and DD was asleep on the couch. 2 yr old was back to sleep, and I went back to bed nursing Lindsey for a few more minutes before she was out.

I feel so ashamed for yelling at her last night.


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## tug

when i was 10, i had a very specific nightmare every night. in retrospect (and i still remember the nightmare in detail) it seems so silly, but it terrified me. and every night i left my bedroom in the basement of our house and went to my parents crying because i was so frightened. and i can still remember how frightened i was. they would tuck me in to a substitute bed on the couch in the living room by their bedroom and i would go back to sleep. i had a sister and i assume that i woke the entire family. i don't know why i had the nightmares; they had nothing to do with anything i had seen on television. here's how simple the nightmare was -- i would be looking out of my bedroom window up the hill in our backyard at dusk and there was a boy or man with curly hair waiting for me at the top of the hill and i was supposed to marry him. now how benign does that sound? but it terrified me. it still makes me nauseous thinking about it.

so i guess i'm saying that, for me, the reason didn't matter -- maybe it was hormones or night terrors or puberty -- it was just so so so scary that i remember it clearly after 30 years. my parents were there for me and they were loving, despite the fact that it happenned every night for a long, long time. sabrina's suggestion about the pallet in your room for her to sleep by you might help. i started sleeping through the night after my parents moved my sister closer to me (obviously, since your girls are already in the same room, this won't help - sorry).

all of this said, i'm still waiting anxiously for my 1 1/2 year old to sleep through the night. not sleeping is also really hard on the entire family.

good luck.


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## Valerie.Qc

No bashing on my part, moms tend to be hard on themselves - as if perfection was a reality









You said she was asleep on the couch when you came back - so she CAN sleep - does your dh can tell you what she did before crashing ont the couch, how did she managed to fall asleep? This can give you some input as what to do as bedtime routine.









It's hard when we don't have a clue about our children's motivations... it can drives one crazy! I hope your family get rest soon!


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## Raven

LDSmomma6 -







I'm sorry that this is happening to your dd. It is evidently hard for all of you. I hope whatever is disturbing your dd is resolved soon. It must be very hard for her...

When Amber goes to bed I put a cassette tape on for her after I read her a story. She used to complain about being afraid of the dark or of the shadows, but since I have started putting the story tapes on for her she hasn't said anything about being scared.

Perhaps what you could try is a change of routine at bedtime. Could she not fall asleep in your bed? Would the tape idea work for you too? Can she read in bed until she falls asleep? With 6 children I can imagine that changing routines can be hard.









Someone else mentioned a support system ... is there anyway that someone could help you with the kids during the day so you could get some rest?

Please dont beat yourself up - its pretty obvious that you are trying hard to get this problem solved. I hope you manage to find a solution soon.







We are here for you if you need to vent mama!


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## jannan

all i can think of is that something is bothering her, and that is why she is not sleeping. in turn you can't sleep. so it is hard to parent with love and patience when you are tired. i can only tell you what i would do. i would talk to her pediatrician and then go from there. did she see a scary movie? if it were my kid i'd give her a dose of codein. that is the god's truth. so flame me but i'm a royal bitch when i can't sleep.


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## JoAida

I remember when I was about that age, Michael Jackson's Thriller had just come out. I slept with the radio on, and some genious at the radio station thought it was a good idea to play it EVERY night at midnight. I would have the worst nightmares, and wake up terrified, and it took us weeks to figure out why. (the song was usually over by the time I woke up good)

Have you asked her specifically what goes through her head when she is scared? Is she scared of burgulars, monsters, people watching her, fire, etc..., or is it a general anxiety-type fear. I think it could very well be hormones. A weird thing I've noticed is that I am more prone to irrational fear when I am pregnant...go figure.

I would consider allowing her to talk to a counselor or even close adult friend that isn't in her immediate family. Does she keep a journal/diary?

I'm sure what you and her are going through is awful. We all have meltdowns with our kids, and this is an extremely frustrating situation for you. PM me if you want to, or if there is anything I can do to help. I will be praying for you.


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## gurumama

LDSmamma, thank you for elaborating. It sounds like you've tried everything you can--now it's time to consider a dr. or a counselor. If this seems to have no obvious cause, she's begging for medicine to fall asleep, and it's disrupting your family, then it's serious enough to take to the next level.

There could be something going on physically or emotionally that she cannot articulate, and if so, she's trapped in a double horror--the fear she feels at night, and the horror of not knowing how to make it stop. As her parents, you and your DH need to find a way for her to resolve this--that's why so many have suggested a dr. or counselor. Because it's the next rational step.

I don't understand the bashing of the new members. None of them were overly judgmental or critical--they gave advice based on concern for the CHILD. LDSmamma's OP sounded harsh, and I think that new and long-time members came in with posts that addressed concern for the girl. Why dismiss new member advice that is EXACTLY the same as long-time member advice? Because it's new? We were all new once.


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## pixie-n-hertwoboys

Mama I am so sorry! I know that has got to be one of the most frustrating events as a parent to deal with.... when a child of yours doesn't sleep and is unreasonable. I think all of us have been there at one point or another. Vent away, thats what we're here for.

I don't know whats going on with your dd but have you thought of giving her some rescue rememdy? or valarien root tea? or calms homeopathic? If shes asking for some 'sleep medicine' maybe giving her some of this will be like a placebo and help her?

I hope you/she figures out whats wrong. You both need a good night sleep and I hope you get that soon.


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## Bippity

Hmmm.... Our thoughts create our reality....

It really sounds like she's trying to release some fear and can't figure out how to talk about it and/or how to let it go. I'd say work on ways to help her to talk about her feelings-all her feelings throughout the day and help her find words (and/or other ways) to identify/name her fears. So, I might try...

Maybe do some physical letting go ritual together - like writing down her worries (if she can name them) on a balloon or a piece of paper and then letting it go or burning it. If she can't name them right away, just have her write SCARED or draw a picture that shows how she feels. If that doesn't work, ask her to really "get into it" at some other time during the day. Ask her to scream, shout, cry, stomp/beat on a pillow, etc. and then talk about letting go and reassure her that all her feelings are acceptable and perfectly OK-they're just energy & feelings can't hurt her at all. They have no power except for what we choose to give them. Let her know it's actions that matter and have consequences - not feelings.

I would suspect she has to know what she's feeling before she's going to be able to let it go.

Maybe also try a warm bath followed by a relaxing Mommy massage - a calm reassuring touch might help her release the tension and might help her identify what she's feeling. Then practice letting go and follow up with some positive visualization - ask her to see herself relaxed, breathing calmly, letting go of any negative thoughts, help her develop some positive relaxing words that will help her to let go of her fears. Maybe develop a short mantra she can say quietly to help her fall asleep - maybe like "I am safe and strong."

That's how I see it (1) she's gotta figure out a way to express what she's feeling - whether it's with words or pictures or touch or something. (2) she's gotta figure out a way to let go of the negative energy that builds up inside and way to help herself feel safe enough to fall asleep.

HTH!! Good luck!


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## lunchbox

LDSMama







Sleep deprivation can really take its toll. My worst moments are the result of a lack of sleep.

I don't know if you homeschool, but if not, perhaps she has some major anxiety about returning to school? I routinely missed the first day of school as a kid because I would get terrible migraines, even though I loved school.

I hope you get some answers.


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## 3 little birds

When I was maybe a couple of years older than your dd, we were shown photographs of the Holocaust in school. I was horrified and scared. Our family Dr. gave me a very mild sleep sedative because I was afraid to go to sleep. I was ashamed to tell my parents what I was afraid of (not sure why). I only used a few of the pills, then I was able to sleep on my own.

Perhaps your dd is afraid to go to sleep. I agree with the poster who suggested asking her sisters. Maybe she has confided in them.

I would definately consider seeing a therapist who specializes in children, if things don't improve. Your dd sounds terrified.


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## MamaMonica

She may need to talk to a counselor specializing in children- someone neutral who is not a parent or relative. There may be something that is bothering her and being nine she is uncomfortable talking to you about it.

I understand your frustration. Also, though this child needs someone in her corner who is not sleep deprived and can listen to her without judgement. I remember being 9/10/11- very tumultuous time and not able to talk to my mom.

There could also be something that happened that is more serious and she is ashamed about, seeing a counselor could help rule that out.

Good luck.


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## DreamerMama

LDSmomma, I am going to try and say this nicely; but hon, you need some parenting classes asap.

When I was nine I had a mental breakdown and cried for weeks because I had/was being molested. My mother was compassionate and let me sleep with religious music playing. She never yelled at me to SHUT UP, she held me and talked to me. I STILL didn't ever tell her what went on and I eventually stopped crying.

I have a nine year old and if she cries over a stubbed toe I would hold her until the crying stopped. I would seek medical care if she didn't stop. That is my suggestion to you, to seek medical help.

Good gravy, why did you have a ton of kids if you just wanted them to SHUT UP!?


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## pamamidwife

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamerMama*
LDSmomma, I am going to try and say this nicely; but hon, you need some parenting classes asap.

When I was nine I had a mental breakdown and cried for weeks because I had/was being molested. My mother was compassionate and let me sleep with religious music playing. She never yelled at me to SHUT UP, she held me and talked to me. I STILL didn't ever tell her what went on and I eventually stopped crying.

I have a nine year old and if she cries over a stubbed toe I would hold her until the crying stopped. I would seek medical care if she didn't stop. That is my suggestion to you, to seek medical help.

Good gravy, why did you have a ton of kids if you just wanted them to SHUT UP!?

wow, it must be nice to have never lost your temper with your child.







:

ugh.

c'mon, sleep deprivation makes people very cranky! don't be so nasty. it's one thing to lose your temper and yell at a child, it would be very different if she locked her in a closet or called her horrible names or hit her.

cut this mama some slack. I agree there is something really big going on with this girl, but you don't need to be so vicious.


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## pie

can't get past page two

whether these members are 'trolls' are not they are right. The child needs help.


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## Overproducktion

Quote:

I don't understand the bashing of the new members. None of them were overly judgmental or critical--they gave advice based on concern for the CHILD. LDSmamma's OP sounded harsh, and I think that new and long-time members came in with posts that addressed concern for the girl. Why dismiss new member advice that is EXACTLY the same as long-time member advice? Because it's new? We were all new once.
Yeah, well some of them where saying things that the OP never said.

Quote:

Good gravy, why did you have a ton of kids if you just wanted them to SHUT UP!?
That was plain rude!







: I've yelled before, and I have 4 kids. Just because of this incident lately with her dd, that is causing her and the family lack of sleep, which can impair your judgment and make you grumpy, you are telling her she needs parenting classes and are questioning her reason for breeding?

Please, let me know when the perfect parenting classes start, I can't wait to join.


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## pugmadmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LDSmomma6*
... She is crying for no reason...

Children't don't cry every night for two weeks for no reason. If this were a nursing baby, would you still think she was crying for no reason? That you can't solve this by nursing her doesn't mean it's for "no reason." But I think you know that because then you wrote...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LDSmomma6*
... Will not sleep. Says she is scared. Scared of what??...

She's scared and you don't know of what yet. That's not the same as "for no reason." In fact, it's the opposite of no reason.

I started having anxiety at night around 10 years old. Sometimes my parents tried to help me and other times I got told to just go back to bed, they didn't yell but they did speak sharply to me. I remember being so scared I couldn't sleep (&, yes, I was sleeping in with my sister) and I couldn't even articultate why.

If this were my child, I would not hesitate to take her to a child psychologist. Sometimes just one or two sessions with a _compassionate_, trained professional can be all the help a child needs.

I wish so much my parents had done that for me, I'm not exagerating when I say I think it could have changed my life (I still deal with periodic, unexplainable anxiety)


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## DreamerMama

Yep, sleep deprivation does funny things to you...I have four kids so I guess I would know. I have yelled at my kids...I don't even pretend to be perfect. OTOH, I wouldn't let my child cry for two hours, let alone cry for two efing weeks! This is an AP site, right? We are supposed to be striving for an attachement to our child...any other person would get flamed to hell and back for posting something like this.

Mama needs slack???!!!! WTF!!??? Uh...I think the kid needs some slack. Who is going to stand up for this kid?


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## Overproducktion

Yes dreamermama, but what are you going to accomplish in helping this mama help her dd by posting some thing as you did?


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## pie

what's viscious? Sometimes when I am making questionable parenting choices I feel like a good honest talking to is a good thing. Honestly, did she post for hugs and support or advice? No one is being mean here. Just honest.

If a child is showing signs of being that disturbed, it's not beneficial for the mother to act like she's being a drama queen and disrupting the family.

I thought this was a sight for attachment parenting? AP goes beyond the ones in diapers. Sometimes it's a good idea for us to remind each other of that.


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## Raven

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamerMama*
Good gravy, why did you have a ton of kids if you just wanted them to SHUT UP!?

Nice.







:


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## DreamerMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happymomwith4*
Yeah, well some of them where saying things that the OP never said.

That was plain rude!







: I've yelled before, and I have 4 kids. Just because of this incident lately with her dd, that is causing her and the family lack of sleep, which can impair your judgment and make you grumpy, you are telling her she needs parenting classes and are questioning her reason for breeding?

Please, let me know when the perfect parenting classes start, I can't wait to join.










Step back hon...I have four kids too, your not alone. I don't yell at my kids to shut up. Not even when we haven't had sleep for weeks, baby has colic, we have stomache bug, I have morning sickness...I JUST DON'T. Neither should you. No one should yell at their child when they are obviously in distress. Can you imagine yelling at a newborn that CAN'T tell you what is wrong? Yeah...just as productive as yelling at this child.


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## DreamerMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happymomwith4*
Yes dreamermama, but what are you going to accomplish in helping this mama help her dd by posting some thing as you did?

Did you READ my post at all? Or were you just skimming? I told her what happened to me and my advice. Now, go back and read carefully...mmmkay?


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## DreamerMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Raven*
Nice.







:

Don't you have anything constructive to add?


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## pie

okay pull out the perfect mommy badges

dreamer good for you. You should be proud. But this thread isn't about you and what you would do or not do. It's about ldsmommy. And while I agree she needs to wake up and smell the coffee so she can help her daughter, lost of moms slip up and act like jerks. It happens. It's not okay, and that's why this thread is so big. I am glad people are telling her it's not okay. But telling her how you would NEVER do such a thing isn't really helpful, is it?


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## pixie-n-hertwoboys

Oh this poor mama.... she comes here for help and gets what? Give her a break. Do you think she came here to get pounded on and have people tell her what shes doing wrong? please!!! Obviously she KNOWS shes not doing something enough for her poor dd. She came for help. She was honest and forthright in what she has tried, is doing and what she can handle. Maybe she has pms herself right now and just CAN NOT handle the crying anymore.

Did OP even say that she just lets her cry? She has been trying to console her but it won't stop.... thats the issue. NOt that she LETs her cry.

Some people are so mean and unkind. Like my mom said if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all....


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## DreamerMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pie*
okay pull out the perfect mommy badges

dreamer good for you. You should be proud. But this thread isn't about you and what you would do or not do. It's about ldsmommy. And while I agree she needs to wake up and smell the coffee so she can help her daughter, lost of moms slip up and act like jerks. It happens. It's not okay, and that's why this thread is so big. I am glad people are telling her it's not okay. But telling her how you would NEVER do such a thing isn't really helpful, is it?


I wasn't responding to her pie, I was responding to happymomwith4...she asked me if I had ever yelled at my kids.


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## pie

so what? You still don't need to make it about you. I am glad you don't yell at your kids ever but the reality is that most of the world does from time to time, and right or wrong, it doesn't help matters along to hear how you wouldn't be caught dead.


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## mountain

HOLY SNARK FEST, BATMAN!

It sounds like the OP is tired. It sounds like 9yodd needs some attention, can you take some time, LDS?

Just as a P.S.: does it really accomplish what you want by writing "ummmm, " and "mmmkay", condescendingly? It just sounds so negative and ridiculous to me...


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## pugmadmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pie*
...If a child is showing signs of being that disturbed, it's not beneficial for the mother to act like she's being a drama queen and disrupting the family.

I thought this was a sight for attachment parenting? AP goes beyond the ones in diapers. Sometimes it's a good idea for us to remind each other of that.

ITA.

I agree that some of the comments in this thread have been out of line. But I don't agree that showing compassion for this little girl is the same as not supporting her mother.

Some of us have _been that little girl_, have been dismissed by our parents as "crying about nothing" (which is just about the most hurtful thing a parent can say. And even if they don't say it, children pick up on a parent's lack of patience and compassion) and I think it's understandable to want to rush in and speak on this little girl's behalf.

I really wish this thread had not gotten so heated.


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## WithHannahsHeart

I do think that sleep deprivation, especially extreme, can drastically warp our perceptions and even our capacity to show compassion and understanding to your own child. I have been there.

However, i would say that at the very least, lds6momma, you might start with making her an appointment with the school counselor. My childhood was rough on top of my being a very sensitive emotional child, and i got so much support and help from my school therapists. They were wonderful, and i was in a pretty crappy school, if that tells you anything. I do think, OP, that you are blowing her off too much and showing a great lack of compassion, even for being sleep deprived. I don't get the attitude, but then, i'm not in your shoes and none of us know all the details of the situation. Two weeks is simply too long a time to let this go on without getting down to the root of the problem.

I know when i was that age, i had MANY fears and concerns that kept me up at night, though i don't think i cried for fourteen days straight. Anyway, i know that for me even that young, writing in a journal was immensely helpful. As was praying, both on my own and with my mother. Do you think you could summon up the grace to put aside your weariness, make her a cup of tea and spend some one on one time just casually chatting with her quietly before bed (assuming you don't already do that)? Kids often will talk to us much more freely under laid back circumstances, i find. Maybe she just needs some special attention from you. But i urge you to ask God to help you lay down your resentment, and get wisdom from him on how best to help your child, who really does need you.


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## DreamerMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pie*
so what? You still don't need to make it about you. I am glad you don't yell at your kids ever but the reality is that most of the world does from time to time, and right or wrong, it doesn't help matters along to hear how you wouldn't be caught dead.


Your right pie, I should have left ME out of it. I **** think the hand holding and hugs is wayyyy out of line on this.


----------



## ~Sparklefly~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LDSmomma6*
She is scared. Period. If something else is wrong she won't tell me, or her dad or anyone else. I have a night light in her room, her door stays open, and she has a flashlight. She sleeps in the same bed with her 2 sisters (queen-size), and has never ever had a problem before. We talk during the day, and before bedtime about how there is nothing to be scared about, and we would never allow anything to happen to her, etc...

Sometimes the worst fears are the ones that can't be chased away with a flashlight. It's gone on for two weeks. Call your ped and find out the name of a good child psychologist and get her little fanny there ASAP.

Quote:

My children are happy children. We don't watch scary movies, we don't scary TV shows. Heck, she hates the Scoobie Doo scary movies. All I can think of is when she was with her cousins a few weeks ago, one of them said something scary or frightening to her.
While your kids may be happy kids most of the time, this one isn't for one reason or another. As frustrating as it is for you, put yourself in her shoes. Something is scaring her and she's either unable or unwilling to vocalize this to you. So not only is she frightened by something, she's dealing with it all on her own. Again, call your ped.

Quote:

I got home at midnight, and DD was asleep on the couch. 2 yr old was back to sleep, and I went back to bed nursing Lindsey for a few more minutes before she was out.

I feel so ashamed for yelling at her last night.
Look. None of us are perfect parents. I'm sure everyone on this board has hollered at their kids a time or two. But please, PLEASE, try not to get angry with her for being scared or upset. All it will teach her is that you're not on her side and she'll never come to you for help. You're sleep deprived, she's disrupting your schedules... I understand. But as frustrated as you are, she is too. And to compound her problem she's also scared, sleep deprived, feeling alone, and her mom is pissed at her.

If she's sleeping better on the couch, let her sleep there.
Hang in there, OK? Call her ped today and see if you can get her in to see a counselor or psychologist ASAP. Don't expect it to get better right away. It may take a while.


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## DreamerMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mountain*
Just as a P.S.: does it really accomplish what you want by writing "ummmm, " and "mmmkay", condescendingly? It just sounds so negative and ridiculous to me...

I was *trying* to be negative and ridiculous...that was my point. Here I am saying what 90% of this board wants to say and *I* get flammed over it? Rich...just rich.


----------



## Raven

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamerMama*
Don't you have anything constructive to add?

I already posted a constructive reply.

I dont believe your statement was very constructive. In fact, I think it was beyond rude.

Quote:

*Good gravy, why did you have a ton of kids if you just wanted them to SHUT UP!?*
I dont see why you had to say that? The rest of your post was written sensitively and I cant see how this last statement could possibly be of any use.

LDSmomma6 came here to vent and to get some advice. She obviously wants to do something to help her daughter or she wouldn't ask for help. She KNOWS that what she is doing is not yielding any successful results for anyone involved and she doesn't want to carry on with the way things are going.

I wonder if you realise how damaging your words can be? Do you know what it feels like to look after 6 kids? Do you know what its like to look after HER 6 kids? None of us do. So I think its best not to make useless comments that can ONLY hurt and do NO good.

I think you used the word "constructive"....


----------



## Overproducktion

Quote:

I was responding to happymomwith4...she asked me if I had ever yelled at my kids.
I did read your entire post. Maybe you should read mine more carefully, I never asked you this.


----------



## DreamerMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happymomwith4*
Please, let me know when the perfect parenting classes start, I can't wait to join.










You implied your question...not only can I read...I can read between the lines.


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## Overproducktion

I will bow out now.....


----------



## DreamerMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Raven*
I already posted a constructive reply.

Good for you!

Now, let me be...I want to be snarky about this.

Thanks for putting my quote in RED, now I really can't edit...I can't do anything about it. Really...smart of you. Geez, it must be so nice to be perfect on a message board that YOU never post something that you regret. Jeebus H. Crispy.


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## mamabutterfly

Mamas, Please take your side fights to pm's, for the sake of everyone.

It's been a long hot summer, huh?
















mamabutterfly

p.s. LDSmomma6, I hope you find the support and answers you need.


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## Raven

Ok this thread is going way out off topic.

Can we get back on track please....

The OP asked for some advice - everyone has different opinons and ideas for solving the problem. Can we present them without being rude...


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## DreamerMama

I would like to say that I regret adding that she shouldn't have had a ton of kids if she didn't want to deal with them. I am sorry. I should have never said that.

I grew up in a very large family with a mother that (at times) had no patience at all. I have often wondered why she thought it would be healthy to have as many kids as she did....but hey, I was just wondering aloud.

Sorry for my snarky reply, I did mean all the rest of my post though.


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## captain optimism

I'm sorry to jump to the "go to the doctor" advice. (I was the first to suggest that, way back on page 1.) I didn't understand that the little girl was frightened. When I was little, I would cry if I couldn't sleep! So my first thought was, maybe she's crying because she can't get to sleep, instead of can't get to sleep because she's crying. That would make her ask for "medicine". But now I see that you knew she was finding something scary and that was making her cry. My biases and experience informed my response.

Maybe she did better on the couch because that room is less scary to her. Perhaps that's a good direction. Also, even though you seem a bit upset by the "medicine" idea, you could try giving her a mild herbal tea or something equally non-druggy. Perhaps that will help her feel relaxed. I'm an absolute believer in the power of ritual to help people sleep.

When I was a child and had sleep issues, or was awake late, my dad was the go-to guy. It's not easy to be the parent who is on all day and then have to do night stuff too. Is that a possibility in your house?


----------



## Overproducktion

Quote:

Maybe she did better on the couch because that room is less scary to her. Perhaps that's a good direction. Also, even though you seem a bit upset by the "medicine" idea, you could try giving her a mild herbal tea or something equally non-druggy. Perhaps that will help her feel relaxed. I'm an absolute believer in the power of ritual to help people sleep.
Me ds who is almost 8 will have troubling sleeping at times. We use the Nighty Night tea from Traditional Medicinals. Maybe try some of that...it's pretty mild.


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## DreamerMama

I also have another suggestion. Ldsmom, you need to look into therapy for you, as well as your daughter. Maybe some family counseling is in order?


----------



## comet

Geting back to the original problem, it seems that LDSmommy is on to something when she said this started about the time when she visited with her cousins a few weeks ago. I think that's the first place to start investigating.


----------



## Gilamomster

LDSmomma

This is what I would do if my 9 yr old son was having trouble; I would ask him / her to write down what he is feeling or draw a picture.

Sometimes verbally expressing the pain/confusion is beyond a child so another creative outlet is in order.

Honestly it could be anything, puberty, fear of school starting up soon, a lost friendship or she could be suffering from depression.

I would look into some sort of counseling for her until she got over the hump.

**hugs**


----------



## lorijds

LDS, I second the rescue remedy idea. A mw I know uses this alot. She feels it works best with positive affirmations. One of the mws I work with uses it with her drama queen daughters; they've kind of gone crazy since they all three pretty much hit puberty at once. They call the rescue remedy "fairy drops". Maybe this is something you could do with dd; come up with some positive affirmations together during the day; then give the fairy drops and say the positive affirmations with her. For her, something like "I'm in a safe place; my family loves me; angels/God/Goddess watches over me; I will dream of ponies..." The rescue remedy works for you, too (uhhh, I know from experience







). I usually say something like "I'm a great mom; I feel very patient; I can handle this situation..." Very Stuart Smalley-esque; but it works for me!

The school social worker is also an awesome idea. Our kids' school sw talks to all the classes about how to deal positively with negative feelings. Many of the previously suggested ideas are used--journalling, drawing, exercise, etc. She also invites the kids to go talk to her about anything. My oldest dd went to talk to her once. I have no idea what about. She said she didn't want to talk to me about it, which kind of hurt my feelings, but at least she was honest. The next day after school I asked her if she had talked with her. She said she had, and that they had solved her problem together. Still don't know what the problem was, but she was happy, so I guess that will have to do on my end.

I'm sorry you've gotten some extremely critical, unhelpful comments. I think everyone here, even the snarkies, have your daughter's best interest at heart. I, however, have been sleep deprived before AND have taken it out on my kids. I always feel horrible afterwards, and try to ensure that it doesn't happen again. I've been alot better about taking care of myself lately, which has resulted in me taking better care of my family, too. I have two kids; I can't imagine how hard it is to take care of yourself when you have six! So, I'm a sometimes horrible mom who still loves her kids very much, and my kids still love me very much. I hope my advice and support (from one less than perfect mama to another) helps you out, as does the other many ideas from mnay of the posters.

hugs to you and your daughter!

Lori


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## TiredX2

Quote:

she said this started about the time when she visited with her cousins a few weeks ago. I think that's the first place to start investigating.








I don't know where DD is in order of children (is there a slightly older sibling who might have some ideas?) but you could also look there for insight.


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## suebearsmom

Im so sorry that you & your dd & family are going through this.I will pray that the cause will come to light and that there will be healing for your dd.I 2nd the idea about asking her to draw a picture about what scares her.I had a couple of things that just tormented me as a child and one was that I got molested by a close family friend at age 10.I reacted very much like your dd.I just felt afraid,I had trouble sleeping and I kind of froze - like I couldnt put it into words.I believe that SOMETHING has scared your dd.It might not be anything as terrible as molestation but please pray and seek answers until you get to the bottom of this.One of her cousins might have said/done something to her that was frightening,she might have heard a news report that made her feel so anxious or even seen a horror movie preview.When I was about her age,I read a story in the newspaper about the Charles Manson murders and reacted quite like your dd is acting.Maybe she heard a frightening report about our nations current events? Its hard to say.I pray that God will give you wisdom and discernment about this.It is so hard to cope when your sleep has been interrupted night after night - whether you have one child or ten. Blessings to all,Catherine


----------



## Yummymummy74

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamerMama*
LDSmomma, I am going to try and say this nicely; but hon, you need some parenting classes asap.
Good gravy, why did you have a ton of kids if you just wanted them to SHUT UP!?


UCK







: posts like this are really making me feel sick..and to be honest your comments are not at all helping LDSmama, Out of curiosity just when did you become so all knowing and self righteous...

I guess I will bow down to you then , you must be the uber mom if you have never been sleep deprived or raised your voice at one of your kids..

UCK UCK!!!!!!


----------



## G-Dawg

Sometimes it is hard to listen without judgement when a thread hits close to home. I find it very interesting that some of the snarkiest replies have come from people who later admit that similar things happened to them when they were young. Some felt neglected in large families, some felt needs were not met emotionally. I don't see how it is constructive to read your own autobiography into ldsmama's situation. This is apparent by the fact that people are assuming intentions and even quoting her as saying things that she never said. It is called projecting and it is harmful. That is an issue to take up in your own therapy session.

90% of the board doesn't seem to be critical of LDS mama. They seem to be trying to cushion the blow of the 10% who are trying to get back at lds mama for things their parents did to them.

In case it isn't painfully clear to all, she came asking for advise. She wouldn't have done so if she didn't think there was a possibility that her thinking wasn't clear.

Some have said that no one was overly judgemental!!! I believe she has been called cold, heartless, acused of having too many children...the list goes on.

Some have suggested therapy for her and her child. I hope a professional would be able to listen without judgement, avoid name calling, and offer some helpful advise. It's a shame that someone should have to pay for services that they should expect from their friends.

Thanks to all moms that offered support.

LDS mama...There is really some awesome advise here, once you sift through the negativity.


----------



## pumpkin

The first thing I thought after reading the OP was that bedtime rules might need to be relaxed right now. Then I read the post that said your daughter had fallen asleep on the couch while you were gone. That really led me to believe that the routine needs to change. Here are my thoughts.

I have a really hard time getting my brain to turn off when I need to go to sleep. I was this way when I was 9 and I'm still this way today.

The only way I can ever get to sleep is to distract myself. Generally this is either reading or watching tv. Sometimes I listen to the radio, but it has to be something with a thread to follow, not just music. I have to give my brain something to focus on other than my own thoughts. The best thing my parents did was just accept that this was true for me. At 9 I was allowed to have the radio on low or read as late I wanted. Sometimes I read until 2 or 3 in the morning, but most of the time I'd read for an hour and then fall asleep. My parents didn't have to stay with me while I did this but that is what fit my personality.

Clearly something is bothering your daughter. The previous posters have given lots of suggestions on how to get to the root of the problem. Regardless, placing less focus on actually having to fall asleep might help your whole family get the rest they need.


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## SaveTheWild

wow, so many things to say about this thread...

but I'll restrain myself...

OK, on to the substance.

First off, I agree with the posters who say that this is something serious and that you need to figure out the cause. Sleeytime tea, etc. is all fine and dandy, but it is a band-aid at best for a serious issue.

that said, here are my thoughts:

1) Do you live in Utah? If so, has she been hearing news/ following the story about the Lori Hacking kidnapping/murder? (She was reported missing exactly two weeks ago today)

Have you been talking about it as a family? Are cousins/other kids/friends talking about it? The kidnapping/murder would be very, very scary for a kid. Either way. If she thinks that the woman was kidnapped, that's scary. If she thinks the woman was murdered by her husband...very scary. If I were 9 and I were thinking about it -- I'd be very scared. [ETA -- looks like the news just reported that they arrested Mark Hacking -- I guess the "kidnapping" story he told was untrue]

2) ITA with folks about the timing with the cousins' visit. You need to look into that.

3) the daily timing should be looked at too -- its bedtime when this happens. Either she is scared to sleep because she is having nightmares, or she is scared to sleep because she is afraid of what might happen while she is asleep (either to her or to others).

I know you probably know this already, but I really think it is important to not ignore this, and to not punish her for her feelings. something's wrong.

Sorry you are both going through this.









I hope this came across as it was intended (caring advice) and nothing else...


----------



## DreamerMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmuma*
UCK







: posts like this are really making me feel sick..and to be honest your comments are not at all helping LDSmama, Out of curiosity just when did you become so all knowing and self righteous...

I guess I will bow down to you then , you must be the uber mom if you have never been sleep deprived or raised your voice at one of your kids..

UCK UCK!!!!!!










It might do you some good to read the rest of my posts in this thread where I clarify and recant some of my remarks.


----------



## DreamerMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chemigogo*
But i urge you to ask God to help you lay down your resentment, and get wisdom from him on how best to help your child, who really does need you.

Thank you chemigogo, that post was so beautifully written, this part especially.


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## AllyRae

The one thing that jumped out at me.... She's 9 years old...is it possible that she just started her first period? I know that when I started (I was 11), I was afraid to tell anyone about it...I was upset and cried.

Also, there was the mention of a visit with the cousins. DEFINTELY investigate this.

What about school....maybe something happened there with a boy, or a friend, or a teacher...

Does she watch the news? The news nowadays is enough to scare the crud out of anyone...

Your daughter is scared...is there a favorite aunt or friend she can talk to?


----------



## Overproducktion

I just got off the phone with my SIL, my neice started her period at 8, (i thought she was 9).

Weeks before it happened, she lost her appetite, and didn't sleep well. Definatley some thing to look into.

She also said that her oldest step-dd went through a stage similar to what lds is speaking of with her dd, and they later found out it was caused by symptoms of IBS. Irritable bowel syndrom (sp?)

Geez, there is so much to think on here....just trying to shoot some more ideas on the thread.


----------



## Yummymummy74

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamerMama*
Why do you feel need to quote me? I NEVER said what you are implying. Btw, it might do you some good to read the rest of my posts in this thread where I clarify and recant some of my remarks.


I quoted exactley what YOU wrote!!! please don't deny your own words.

I have read the WHOLE thread and was one of the first few posters on it last night when it started!!!!! thats why I am again following the thread today, this mom needs help not critisicm, and wholier than thou comments!

What lds needs to hear is that we are here, to listen to her and to help her bounce ideas around ..I thought the purpose of this forum was to lend an ear, and a place to vent outside of the real judgmental harsh world we all live in ..that is very often not alternative living or AP friendly.

I digress, but its important I think to step back and not cast stones when you have not walked a mile in her shoes..

I come to MDC because its supposed to be a safe haven really...or so I thought I vibrant community of eclectic thoughts..If I wanted to read and participate in common flaming/troll threads geez I could sit around at all other other online parenting forums.

Back to LDS mom!

I agree that rescue remedy is a fabulous idea! I have used this with much success on my preteen, in addition we go through times where she has a tummy ache..or a back ache or just plain insomnia...all of these are of course stemming from the reason that she just does not want to sleep! I have also seen her "melt down" at night..if she has had alot go on during the day she can just start to cry for seemingly no reason.

Its never an absolute..often its more of a shot in the dark this can be a very interesting age with young womyn!! I am also really agreeing with alot of the posters who felt it might be something related to hormones..they can do weird things to us you know! LOL

In the end I would trust your instinct and gut more than any outside advice you get..only YOU know your child..and this may well be a variation of normal preteen behaviour! if you sense its more than that..then follow that, but dont make anybody here make you feel like less of a mom because of whats going on, and dont make anyone here pressure you into seeking outside assistance if you really truly are not into that sort of thing.

I really do wish you well..parenting is such an interesting journey! and having 8 kiddos myself I know FULL well the trials and tribulations of the large family.


----------



## Yummymummy74

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamerMama*
It might do you some good to read the rest of my posts in this thread where I clarify and recant some of my remarks.


Hmm why did you edit this post after my post quoting what was originally in here?

*shaking head*


----------



## DreamerMama

edited. I don't want to have this inane conversation with someone who can't bother to read an apology.


----------



## DreamerMama

*


----------



## triste

I am sorry to hear that your daughter has been crying for awhile already. I hope you can find out why , so it can help you both sleep. Good Luck


----------



## Yummymummy74

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamerMama*
Now, pissoff.

Wow! how articulate of you

I have one better! but I wont give you the pleasure of telling you what you probably already know you are









Have a great one!


----------



## DreamerMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmuma*
Hmm why did you edit this post after my post quoting what was originally in here?

*shaking head*

Ok, I'm going to play nice. There is a little thing called time delay. I edited because it didn't say what I meant it to say. Good enough?


----------



## Yummymummy74

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamerMama*
Ok, I'm going to play nice. There is a little thing called time delay. I edited because it didn't say what I meant it to say. Good enough?

No further comments needed.

This is getting away from the support and help LDS mama really needs right now


----------



## Overproducktion




----------



## AllyRae

Ok LDS....I made a comment up there...a really nice one with some possibilities. It is going to get lost in the snarkiness, I'm sure. I'm sorry if any of my comments were repeats...I chose not to read pages 2- 6 because it was snark after snark and I really just wanted to offer support. So, please go up a couple posts and my ideas are up there.


----------



## BusyMommy

Come on, for Goodness sake, get off of her thread. If all you can do is try to have a pissing contest, go somewhere else. DreamerMama, you obviously are angered and upset. Don't take it out on the OP and hijack her thread. She has a real issue and she's turned here for support. IF you can't be constructive and respectful, then leave it alone.


----------



## Jennifer Z

If she is anything like I was at that age, she just doesn't know *what* is wrong, but the whole world is just wrong. I cried myself to sleep almost every night for a couple of years as a pre-teen. I was suicidal many times and my mom, as irritated and hard as it was for her sat by my side, rubbing my back, and told me over and over again how important I was to her, how much she loved me, and things along those lines. Even as an adult when I feel overwhelmed I can close my eyes and hear those words. Those are the kind of words you want her to hear in your head the rest of her life.

It is likely she is pre-mentral or mentral, and much like peri-menopause, the hormones are out of balance and cause feelings and emotions she has no experience handling.

If she has a stomach ache, it could be cramps, post-nasal drip (sometimes my allergies are mild enough they don't really bother me during the day, but when I lay down I feel like throwing up), or any number of diseases that cause discomfort. If she has physical symptoms, take her to a dr. and keep taking her until you get somebody that takes her seriously. My mom, in her late 50s now, is still angry that nobody took her pain seriously when she was a child. When I had pain, she literally kept taking me to drs. until somebody listened. The positive effect of her taking me seriously extends far beyond just helping me with my pain and helps me to know I am worth taking care of. (btw...I was dx with endo at 13yo)

I would recommend that you take her to a dr. and make sure there isn't something wrong. Sit down with her and make a plan...get a pm yoga tape, relaxing music, warm bath, visualization, sleepytime tea, or just rubbing her back or singing to her, or holding her hand while she cries...anything is going to be an improvement at this point. These are the last precious years where she is still a kid, she might just need to know that you are still there for her and love her as much as the little kids that I suspect require more immediate attention. Insecurity is such a large part of being a pre-teen and since they are so close to being independent, I think it is hard to remember that they are still kids.

I do feel for the sleep deprivation though...it really screws with your emotions, especially if it hits you at the wrong time of the month.

As hard as this is for you, and it is hard, it is a thousand times worse for your daughter because she simply doesn't have the insight and coping skills that come with age.


----------



## Overproducktion

Quote:

These are the last precious years where she is still a kid, she might just need to know that you are still there for her and love her as much as the little kids that I suspect require more immediate attention.
So true!


----------



## veganmamma

I think it's pretty nasty of everyone to have picked apart DreamerMama's first post to this thread based on one emotional sentence when everyone is defending controversial statements made by ldsmomm6 in emotion. So what, she said something snarky and then apologized for it. Since then everyone has been antagonizing her. No wonder she said pissoff.

I don't think I have a place to judge here, but the OP was very troublesome for me. I too read that ldsmomma was only worried about getting sleep and basically getting her kid to shut up when I think there is a serious problem. I was a very sleep disordered child and I needed my mom in with me sometimes all night and I know she didnt' get sleep.

I realize you have 6 kids ldsmomma. I know it's hard, I can only imagine. Every one of your children needs the love and attention an only child gets. Can you ask a family member to help out while you get extra sleep to make up for your nights? I think something is seriously, seriously wrong for your dd. Try to put aside your frustration and feel compassion for her. She is a little girl and she can't process things the way you can. I'm sure sleep deprivation is affecting everyone, but this also includes her and compounds her scary situation. I think a counselor would be a big help here. I hope things improve for you.


----------



## mammabear

LDSMomma- Have you had any progress in finding out why DD is so scared?

I am sorry that your thread turned into this. There are lots of mammas who offered some good advice if you can bare to read through all of this.
I hope that you and your family get through this.


----------



## chiromama

One thing that strikes me.. she will sleep on the couch... Maybe something in the room is frightening. Or maybe one of the siblings she shares a bed with is scaring her. Maybe she is ready for her own bed...
Rescue rememdy is good.
I'd consult an ND or homeopath before giving anything you aren't familiar with ... and bedtime tea rocks.


----------



## veganmamma

Bedtime tea may be a good response for the immediate future, but I think there is something big going on and it needs to be addressed right away. If thinking homeopathically, this tea will mask symptoms (screaming, lack of sleep,) and then the true cause will be overlooked. That would be a fear for me.


----------



## Greaseball

OK, I feel like I must have missed something, maybe that was edited out? But here is what I would do:

Ask her what she is afraid of. Ask her what I could do to help out with this fear. Do not assume there is nothing to be afraid of - usually people are afraid because something scary is happening to them, even if it's not scary to other people.

If she could not tell me, I'd ask her if she could think of anyone she could tell, or if she would like me to help her find someone to talk to.

If she wanted to look into some kind of temporary sleep medicine, I'd consider it after talking to her ped, but only if the child actually wanted it. I'd never suggest it myself, or sneak it into her food or whatever.

If a kid is acting in a way to get attention, I believe it is because they are not getting enough attention. I'd give her the attention she needs, not ignore her in an attempt to teach her not to ask for attention.

That poor kid.







Being scared sucks.


----------



## chiromama

ITA. I think that in the short term, getting some sleep will help the whole family deal with this rationally. So maybe some resuce rememdy, or bedtime tea, while the true cause of the upset is found out. If you're not sleeping, you can't heal.


----------



## Jessica36

LDS -







I am sorry you are going through this. IF you have a church you frequent, is there someone close there she can talk to? What about a close Aunt? I know my oldest Niece bounces her ideas off of me!

I also agree about having her write the problem down and either having a balloon take it away, OR burn it outside.

HTH


----------



## LDSmomma6

Ok, I am almost crying at some of the rude comments made about this, but I guess I deserve it because I have been rude more than once before to people.

Let me clarify something though, and I should have said it at the very beginning. She has been crying/whinning for almost 2 weeks at bedtime. Most of the time she goes right to sleep. It's when she wakes up during the night, that she will cry and whine and say she is scared. Last night was the worse I have seen since this all started, before bedtime. She will stand over me in my bedroom or stand in the hallway and just whine. Last night she never woke back up, and she slept the whole night on the couch. I seriously don't think any sexual abuse is going on like someone suggested. We have talked about if something is going on like that. I talked with her this morning about being scared, and asked her to tell me what is wrong. She says she is just scared. I asked if it was something a cousin said, or a friend said, or something she has seen on TV. No, no, no. I asked her if she felt like she needed to go see Dr. ** and talk about it there. No she said. DH did say though that I need to probably take her in anyways.

I do remember being scared when I was about 10. I went to a friends' house and her dad was watching Dracula on Showtime (back in 1980). It freaked me out!! Almost 3 years I prayed every night that Dracula wouldn't come through my window to get me. Maybe she did see something on TV that freaked her out. I know she has seen that new movie commercials "The Village". Heck, that has freaked me out!! We have told her about real and non-real, and how this movie is not real, etc... Who knows!! We don't watch alot of TV, but sometimes DH will watch it before kids go to bed, and just some of the commercials are scary. I know that oldest DS was scared to death of Jurastic Park. Got us up a few times to make us assure him that dinosaurs were not going to come get him. Whatever she is a scared of, she isn't telling. I do like the idea that someone suggested about her drawing what she is scared of. I've seen it done on Law & Order.

As for me having children to yell at? Give me a break!! I love my children. I would do anything for them. And if it means to take her to the doctor then I will, as you suggested and DH suggested. I also told her since she did so well sleeping on the couch last night, then she could do it again tonight, but in her bed. But, if she wants the couch, then fine. I will let her sleep there. As to yelling...I was yelled at as a kid. I have posted about that before. My mom was a yeller. I remember how mean she was to us. I am so not like her, and how I yelled last night was nothing with what my mom used do and say to us. I was always called "you little sh*t." I have never said that word out loud ever to my children. Ask my children, ask my DH. Only swear word I ever say is da**it, and since posting about the whole soap issue awhile back, I have been trying very very very very hard not to swear, and I have been doing a good job. My children are happy, my children are sweet, my children are the joy of my life.

I hope this is going to end soon. When 2 yr old had her tonsils out back in May, she was so miserable, and would only sleep on the couch. But, then it became a habit, but she eventually went back to her comfortable bed. I hope my 9 yr old will do. I have already apologized to her for yelling her last night, and she said she is going to not cry tonight before bed. Oh, and she did sleep the whole night without crying one time on Saturday night, so I thought we had overcome it, but then last night...









Thank you for all your nice replies. I love coming here to get great advice. You have helped me in the past, and offered great advice when I was to give up breastfeeding #6 because of the awful infection I had on my right side for almost 4 months. But, today, Lindsey is 6 months old, and I haven't had to express milk for about a month, and she is nursing great on that side, and it's not hurting anymore. I will always be greatful for you nice momma's who love to help. And again, I am sorry for offending anyone in the past. I am trying to be better.


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## LDSmomma6

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessica36*
LDS -







What about a close Aunt? I know my oldest Niece bounces her ideas off of me!

My sister lives close by, and she is going to help her too at night.


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## Overproducktion

to you mama and your dd.


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## JoAida

I definately think it's a age/hormonal thing. Maybe you could give her some options of things to do when she wakes up. (take a bath, read a book, draw, etc) I know there are many times I wake up and cannot go back to sleep. I come here to settle back down enough to fall back asleep. It sounds like she is waking up, and finds herself alone (being the only one awake), and maybe that lonliness is what she is calling "scared". If she is just standing over you whining, I would think that maybe she is just wanting company, and I could see how that would make you a little edgy.

I think taking her to the doctor "just in case" is a good idea.


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## chiromama

LDS momma, I really hope your daughter is able to overcome whatever is bothering her. I know this must be difficult for you, and then to have many people beat you up over it.








Maybe just letting her sleep on the couch, or in a sleeping bag on your floor will help her regain the confidence she needs to get back to a regular habit. Are you sure the sibs she shares her bed with aren't being mean or hurting her at night?
I had recurrent nightmares as a child, and didn't remember them till much later in life, so she may be having nightmares and can't remember them.
As long as you are giving her lots of love and encouragement, I'm sure your family will come through this.
It sucks that you fell apart and yelled at her, but it seems that you are doing your best. You knew you had to get out of the house, in order to calm down...







: I'm glad you can find some encouragement among all the flak.


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## DreamerMama

My ten year old has night terrors and he sleep walks. We have an understanding that he can come into our room and pull out a pallet on our floor to sleep on when this happens. He has done this for about seven years now. He cries a lot too. I have spent countless nights soothing him and trying to help him fall back asleep. Although, it doesn't sound like she has a sleep disorder like my son, maybe an understanding about the couch or pallet would be helpful.


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## mother_sunshine

If my dd (7.5yrs) was crying I would stay with her, soothe her and help her out of it rather than reacting in anger and treating her like a nuisance. I wouldn't leave her side until the problem was solved.

If you don't have your mother's love and understanding, whose do you have? She probably feels completely alone in the World right now. Regardless of the reason for her crying, why on Earth would you want that for her.


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## DesireeH

Could anyone have said something to her that hurt her feelings? When I was younger I used to cry at night because someone said I was fat......and I cried and cried and cried......I was too embarrassed to tell my family why I cried. I know they heard me sometimes because my mom came to ask me what was wrong and I always said I had a stomach ache. I was in the 5th grade (10/11??). I ended up with an eating disorder a few years later. I am not saying that this is the case, but maybe someone told her something that hurt her feelings and she is too embarrassed to say?


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## StephandOwen

Just some







I read through the whole thing and I agree with maybe having the Aunt you said lives close by come and spend some time with her. Maybe she'll open up to her and confide in her. Good luck in getting past this. I also agree with maybe deciding together some different options for nighttime. Maybe taking a bath, or having a cup of milk (or the sleepy tea others were talking about), or reading a book. My 8 year old sister has recently started having trouble at night so reads books before bed. She normally reads for 30 min-1 hour before going to sleep.







Keep doing the best you can!


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## pilesoflaundry

I hope you can figure out what is wrong, but it is definitly something even if she won't tell you what. If she is too upset to tell you/doesn't want to have you asked her if she would like to write it down just to get it out of her system so she can hopefully rest again.

Also the more sleep she loses the harder it will be for her to settle down and she might start having nightmares. She needs some rest soon because you will be caught in this cycle. I know I get stuck in an insomnia rut for awhile sometimes and when I do I have the most god awful weird dreams until I catch up on some sleep. I hope you figure this all out soon.

I forgot to add, my ds is 5 and he suddenly hated sleeping in his room but will sleep fine on my bedroom floor or the couch. I let him pick where he wanted to sleep and now that he has gotten over this he is back to sleeping in his bed. He finally told me that sometimes a bird would chirp near the window and it scared him at first until he figured out what it was. Maybe a tree branch is banging on her window or something??


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## oceanbaby

nak

i'm late to the party here, but was going to say this:

Quote:

The one thing that jumped out at me.... She's 9 years old...is it possible that she just started her first period? I know that when I started (I was 11), I was afraid to tell anyone about it...I was upset and cried.
also, if she's begging for the medicine, i'd probably let her try it for one night


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## Overproducktion

Until the underlying cause is found. What about a placebo? (Did I spell that right?)

Like some teething tablets or something...just tell her that they are to help her sleep. Then dd and mama can get some rest....if it worked, and try to get to the root cause.


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## mother_sunshine

Quote:

I know she has seen that new movie commercials "The Village". Heck, that has freaked me out!!
Bingo. I'll bet that is the problem.

She sounds a lot like me as a child. I was very very sensitive to anything scary that I saw (and still am). I saw Amityville Horror when I was 13 and I couldn't sleep for weeks after that. It was pounded into my head that it wasn't true, and I completely understood that, but I was still affected just the same. And after Psycho I wouldn't take a shower without constantly peeking out of the shower curtain (and still did that well into adulthood :LOL). I was convinced that he was right on the other side of the curtain standing over me with a knife :LOL. Some of us are just more sensitive to that kind of stuff than others. Give us an opportunity to let our vivid imaginations run wild and we'll take off with it.

Maybe the best thing you can do is go with her to check under the bed, in the closet, etc. before turning off the lights at night. But I know from experience that will probably not be enough. Help her feel secure and safe. If you are willing, let her sleep in your room at least until she regains her security. Those images will stick in the mind for quite a while, but they do eventually fade (until the next image is introduced anyway).

Maybe get her a doll, angel or stuffed animal that will symbolically watch over her every night and keep her safe.







, it worked for me as a kid. My Mom even got me a little vial of Holy Water from a church, I kept it by my bed at night (and I'm not even religious :LOL). We are a strange breed. But please be patient with her and help her out of it. She needs your reassurance and love. I used to feel so bad and abandoned when my Mom would get mad at me (or ignore me) for it. And don't make her feel silly. That'll just make her feel ashamed but it won't take care of the problem.


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## SabrinaJL

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LDSmomma6*
Most of the time she goes right to sleep. It's when she wakes up during the night, that she will cry and whine and say she is scared. Last night was the worse I have seen since this all started, before bedtime. She will stand over me in my bedroom or stand in the hallway and just whine........ I talked with her this morning about being scared, and asked her to tell me what is wrong. She says she is just scared.

This is exactly how my 10 yo DD gets. I discussed it with her again today. I asked her if she knows why she sometimes gets scared in the middle of the night and she said she has no idea. She just gets scared. Like I said, I've chalked it up to puberty or her maybe having nightmares that she doesn't remember upon waking.

It doesn't really sound like anything is really wrong to me. I think she just needs some comfort. Have you tried letting her crawl in bed with you? When DD gets that way she climbs in between me and DH and I cuddle her or rub her back. The next night she's fine.


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## bebe luna

have you tried rescue remedy? it can be great for anxiety, fear, pain, sadness, etc. it's a flower essence.

also calms forte, a homeopathic remedy for sleep and restlessness.

how about letting her sleep with you for a while.

you could try aromatherapy as well: lavender, bergamot, chamomile... al very soothing and calming.

i hope she finds some peace in her nights soon, as well as you


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## skipper

Forgive this being my first post. I usually just lurk but something that someone else said struck me with an idea.

I know you said you had talked to her and she said she was going to try and not cry, have you asked her what SHE thinks would help her not be scared at night? Perhaps she can begin to handle it if she helps create a plan for her to handle the fear. It might give her the feeling of power over her fear, that she is capable of beating her fear and not crying. Even if she can't express what is scaring her, perhaps expressing what will help her not be scared might give you an idea. Perhaps taking a well-loved stuffed animal to bed as a guardian, or working out a 'magical' phrase that she could say to banish whatever is causing the fear.

Just an idea, even if I didn't express it that well. Good luck.


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## Piglet68

Jumping in late, here...I'll admit that OP was a bit scary. I think you had to know LDSmamma from these boards to recognize that all was not as it sounded, but I honestly don't blame some people for their negative reactions. It did sound rather parent-centred and a lack of concern for the DD. Doesn't excuse the rudeness, but I understand where some of the emotion was coming from.

Honestly, I think what you have here is a "failure to communicate" (thank you, Billy Bob Thornton!). Seriously, though...just because a child can't articulate her fears, doesn't mean there aren't any. She may need help figuring out her own emotions and articulating them. The drawing, counsellor, etc are all great ideas.

Sadly, she just may not feel able to tell her mother about those feelings. LDS, I know your heart is huge, but telling a child "there is nothing to be scared of" when she says she is scared is MAJORLY invalidating to them. It basically says "the problem is you" or "you are not right to be feeling this way", etc...I know you are trying your best, and this is not meant as a criticism of you, just know that perhaps she just doesn't feel she can talk to you about whatever it is....that doesn't mean there is nothing there. Then again, some preteens/teens get embarrassed about certain things no matter how open their parents are...but I think in that case she would be trying harder to hide her feelings from you, rather than being so obvious about it.

I realize it must be hard, but I agree with everybody who says there IS a problem here, and solving it at it's root is the best way. Maybe a herb remedy, or hell use my mother's tried and true tablespoon-of-brandy in a glass of hot water with a teaspoon of sugar (yum!). But know that it's only a bandaid. Your DD, first and foremost, is having a problem with identifying and communicating her emotions. A re-read of "How to Talk..." might be in order, or perhaps no matter how open you are she won't tell you, so maybe a counsellor etc. Ask her how she feels about that.

It must be hard seeing your DD so distressed...hope you both find peace soon.


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## pie

I know my bluntness here didn't have anything to do with unkind comments I've seen you make in the past. It had to do with concern for your little girl. Nine is still such a small child. She needs your love. You come here to be given AP advice and that's what you've been given.

I hope you take it, and give her comfort and tell her it's okay, while you can. She won't be able to cry in the night for you much longer.


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## armonia

Sometimes anxiety disorders can appear around this age, like ocd and seperation anxiety. It is often very hard for the child to talk about because thoughts can be be confusing and possibly irrational. Kids feel like if they talk about what they are thinking it just doesn't make sense, to them or others. Here are some links:

http://www.cchs.net/health/health-in...asp?index=6248

Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD):
What to look for: Child may worry excessively about such things as relationships, school grades, possible misfortune, etc. Finds it difficult to control worries and anxiety is associated with restlessness, fatigue, difficulty concentrating, irritability and sleep disturbances.

Depression:
What to look for: Signs of sadness or irritability, tearfulness, social withdrawal, refusal to go to school, hopelessness, decreased interest in activities and fatigue. Appetite changes, suicidal thoughts, sleep disturbance and decreased concentration are also signs of depression.

http://www.medhelp.org/HealthTopics/Bedtime.html

Best wishes to you and your daughter. This may be a very confusing time for her if she is developing an anxiety disorder.


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## tracymom

I second the movie trailers. My 7-yo DS is also very sensitive and sometimes wakes up crying for seemingly no reason. I also second all the ideas for getting an aunt or other trusted person to talk to her. Rescue Remedy is great for me AND DS, not habit forming. Still a good idea to have her checked at the doctor, though, just to make sure there is no underlying physical problem that even herbal medication or tea would mask.








T

For those wondering about the troll icon, I found the code. It's : trollicon (take out the space between the colon and the name). Not sure why it's not on the list, but if you need it, there it is.....


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## rubysmomjess

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skipper*
Forgive this being my first post. I usually just lurk but something that someone else said struck me with an idea.

I know you said you had talked to her and she said she was going to try and not cry, have you asked her what SHE thinks would help her not be scared at night? Perhaps she can begin to handle it if she helps create a plan for her to handle the fear. It might give her the feeling of power over her fear, that she is capable of beating her fear and not crying. Even if she can't express what is scaring her, perhaps expressing what will help her not be scared might give you an idea. Perhaps taking a well-loved stuffed animal to bed as a guardian, or working out a 'magical' phrase that she could say to banish whatever is causing the fear.

Just an idea, even if I didn't express it that well. Good luck.


skipper this is a really great thought...welcome out of lurking!

LDSmomma6 I'm sorry things have been so rough for you and your dd. I was pretty sensitive as a child (and as an adult) and had a lot of anxiety which really came out at night. I love having bedtime tea before going to bed. The warm liquid is very soothing. Also, I do the pm part of am/pm yoga. The little rituals really help me...And when dh is out of town I still sleep with a hall light on (don't tell dh, though







). Good luck!


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## MPJJJ

Hello Momma,

I've seen your posts in the past, and know that you are a very caring mother. Please don't let these other posters get you down, it seems that rather then post first to introduce themselves, they cannot wait to get on their high horse and bash someone who is already down and out.







:

I know what sleep deprivation can do to someone. I myself, have yelled at, and even hit (spanked) my 2 oldest when they have kept me up past my limit. It is something I work hard to control, since I was raised to have violent tendancies, but that is the only time they come out, and the only time it is so hard to control. Not getting enough sleep would make anyone act outside their normal charactor.

She says she doesnt know what is bothering her... could she be acting on a subconcious level? If she falls asleep at night, but awakens and starts crying, she must be dreaming. You understand that dreams cannot be helped.

How would you feel about letting her sleep with you and your DH until you work through this? My 2 year old has aweful night terrors, but most night I awaken when he starts rolling around and whimpering, and all it takes is a comforting whisper and a pat on the back to get him to settle down and go back to sleep.

Some chamomile tea might help, my Grandma used to give me some when I was little and had a hard time sleeping.

You can make some 'holy mist' by praying over a spray bottle and asking it to chase away evil things... it could be that she is sensetive and is picking up on some bad vibes in the room. If not actually something lurking in the bedroom, it might help her feel control, and the act of spraying the room and telling the 'bad feeling' to go away could make her feel at peace.

I hope you get to the bottom of this, and I hope these annoying trolls that have nothing better to do, leave you alone and go pick on someone who is actually in the state of mind to tell them to go back to the hole they crawled out of.


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## DesireeH

I looked in a book I have and it has a chapter on emotional upset...it says if the child is upset but cannot name the fear then try the Bach Flower remedy, Aspen. If the child can name the fear, try the Bach Flower remedy, Mimulus.

The book has tons of listings for homepathy but its based on specific fears (like dark, aliens, death, etc). If she lets you know a specific fear, let me know and I can look up the suggestion if you want.

Is school coming up? Could she be worried about starting a new grade?


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## Shirada

I don't have a 9 yr old girl. The closest I have been to a 9 year old girls was myself at that age. When I was close to that age I used to scream and cry at night. We went to psycologist after psychologist, counsellor after counsellor. I was a bright child, but still obviously unable to articulate what was actually bothering me. The distress went on for years, despite the help my worried parents sought for me. In the end a behavioural approach helped me, so much time had passed I don't think I even knew what was bothering me any more.

The point I am getting to is that it wasn't until I was in my 20's and revisiting my past that I discovered the reason for such distress. I recalled an incident from when I was 8 years old when a couple of teenage boys had grabbed me and my friend in the street and pushed me against a wall and tried to molest me. Absolutely horrifying. I only could look at the incident years later and realise the emotions involved. I wasn't supposed to be walking alone with my freind, (hence the guilt), I felt powerless, my friend was unable to help me and was equally scared and just kept laughing, (I now know that hysteria was her response to fear). I think I must have repressed the incident immediatley and was unable to retrieve the memory till years later. No wonder my parents couldn't get to the bottom of it.

Maybe since your dd has only just started having her sleep problems, it is a good time to ask her direct questions about possible abuse whlist she was staying at her cousins house. I sure hope that was NOT the case, but one never knows.

Good luck with easing your daughter's fears.


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## Valerie.Qc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LDSmomma6*
It's when she wakes up during the night, that she will cry and whine and say she is scared.

Is she really awake??

My dd, now 13th, was getting up at night crying and saying things about being scared... but she was still sleeping







It took several time to figure this out (and a timely article in a magazine). It started when she was about 9. It might be that... but one thing is, my dd didn't recall being up in the middle of the night the next morning if we didn't woke her in the middle of her *crisis* like a toddler's night terror... I just redirected her to her bed as soon as she was upstair so the crisis was short and she didn't have an opportunity to wake up... If I missed my cue I was good for a long long night









Another thought: maybe one of her sibbling is doing strange noise in their sleep... (DH and DS are... it can be scary to listen to that in the dark







) That would explain why she slept all night when on the couch









Hope your dd and you find a solution to this situation and you two can be back to a happy relationship


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## tofumama

Bebe Luna and Skipper you beat me to it!








I second the Calms Forte...they are literally homeopathic sleeping pills. I also agree that sleeping is probably not the problem here, but if she is asking for something to help her sleep, this 'medicine' is something you can give to her safely. Anyone suffering from insomnia or sleep deprivation will have trouble articulating whats wrong, nevermind that your dd is 9! There are alot of good ideas here about what could be wrong, maybe make a list of things mentioned and bring them to the Dr? I definitely agree with the suggestion of a NP, as they often will look past the 'obvious', IYKWIM.
Having an emotional and intense child myself, I know how you feel, and that feeling of being at your wits end, its SO hard. I hope things get better for you and your dd very soon.

I apologize, LDS, for going OT here...
I usually do not get involved when people get all 'snarky', but honestly, I am really appalled. Apparently people don't go by 'If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all'
Words to live by...


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## Emilie

I hope that you are having a better night tonight as well and especially your daughter.
I remember my parents would play tapes for me at night- this really relaxing sleep tape for kids- it talked about floating on a cloud. I wish that I still had it- it helped SO much! I also listened to books on tape- like huckleberry fin- which I still have ( no longer use) that seemed to take whatever was bothering me off my mind and I could fall asleep peacefully.
This may be a rearranging situation- like letting her sleep on the couch for awhile-( as to not disturb her sisters- which if it works- go for it!
I thought of you all day... and even talked to my mom about it. She said that those were really tough times for her- because it seemed there was nothing she could do but sit there with me- and no one could figure it out.
I wonder if she is worried about going back to school- are you out back to school shopping- etc. I hated school- and when I was ten a boy in my school pushed me down and grabbed my breasts- it was horrifying to me- and I hated to go to school.
I also hated to go to school because of the girls in my class- at that age- one day they are your friend the next they are not.
I would also seriously investigate the cousins thing- just because she says nothing happened does not mean that it is so! I am glad that you have talked to her about being touched in bad places- but it does not matter how close a relationship you have- she may not tell you- ever- or for a long time.
I send out lots of hugs and good thoughts for you all. I wish I was there to help!!!!
It can not hurt to take her to a doctor... at least you may be able to rule some things out.
Also just because she says- she will not cry tonight does not mean that she won't... she most likely does not want to be crying like this- so she probally has little control over it- I as an adult have very little control over my emotions at times.( dont' we all!) Anyhow- I just wanted to say that I sounded alot like this poor little girl and my heart goes out to her.....
Please give her a big hug for me- and if you want I will find out from my parents about the tapes- they may still have them and I know they did wonders.
Maybe the two of you need a little one on one time- if possible- go to the park alone together- or for a walk- or just sit on the porch alone together....
I hope you have found some good advice here- and can not get down by all the upset going on....
Be strong mama- we are all pulling for you!
EMilie


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## PikkuMyy

I'd just like to say that I'm really annoyed about having to waste my time reading through the snarkiness to find out what happened!

And that I, as the first responder to the OP, mentioned the movie commercial idea and still think it stands. I was too embarassed to tell my mother about it because I knew intellectually that it was just a commercial for a non-real thing - that didn't make any of the emotions feel less strong.

Anyway, LDS, keep us informed and we'll keep you and your daughter in our hearts.


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## azyre

When I have insomnia, when I try to relax to get to sleep my heart will race and it makes me feel scared. If I start to fall asleep and I "notice" it, I will immediately jerk awake and my heart will race. I wonder if something similar is happening to your DD? I could often not tell you exactly what has caused it either. I have been quite irrational to my SO in these circumstances, waking him up to demand he rub my back etc. I spent one night trying (in vain) to wake my sleeping nursing cause I thought that'd help me get to sleep, and getting more distressed I was wasting her long sleep and she wasn't helping me out!! Ahh poor me!







I know at the time what I am doing to myself but can't help it.

It is the most annoying thing, and tools that I can often use to fall asleep will not work once I get in this state. I can't really offer you any solutions, just another take on the problem she may be experiencing. I have had some success with a commercial homeopathic insomnia relief spray. But if I am feeling that way, and it is a distinct feeling, I have a cut-off time of night at which I do use a prescription drug. After several years of this, I now know that nipping it in the bud can save me many days of poor sleep due to mounting performance anxiety. Also, knowing if I am not asleep by 1:30am, I will have the pill, this backup is often enough to relax me enough to drift off - I am not hung up on worrying how I will get enough sleep to cope the next day. If I don't do this, after a few nights of feeling anxious about sleeping the problem gets worse, and I am overwrought.

I am sure there are more holsitic and natural ways to help if this is the problem.


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## anythingelse

I have been through the repeated night waking with my kids, some reasons I found for it
-constipation and gas - ds was having a bm every 3-4 days and was old enough that I had no idea he was that binded, he would feel fine till he laid down then bawl and could not explain why.
Another dc is a teeth grinder & would wake and cry cause he would bite his side of his mouth, his lip, his teeth would ache. Another dc 3-4 loose baby teeth & was afraid he could choke on them if he was alseep.
another dc could not sleep because of growing pains and had charlie horses real bad so that would wake up screaming and would be in such terror from pain would not listen to me until I was get him woke up enough to stand up and flatten his feet out while both my dh and I together holding him to keep him from flailing around. We have also gone through the crying jags for other reasons when child was just over tired majorly pod, defiant, and whiny phase.
IME the best thing to do would be to focus on what exactly the prob is, not just try random things to resolve it, I would have dh talk to her, then try to set up a mother daughter date alone to talk it out before looking for counseling. I only know my own kids my and the ones in our ex family there can be many physical reasons for the behaviors you posted. (((HUG)))
I have yelled too, worst time was when one of my kids jammed a ball of foil up his nose and it bled so bad we had to go into er in the end of it cause I could not get it out & again he would not at first admit what he had jammed up there till I yelled at him that he better tell me so I could help him figure out how we could get it out cause previously he had jammed a tic tac into it to shoot out and impress his lil bro.
(which BTW burns apparently like a son of a gun)

Stuff happens and kids wake screaming - (((((HUG)))))


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## Raven

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skipper*
Forgive this being my first post. I usually just lurk but something that someone else said struck me with an idea.











Quote:

I know you said you had talked to her and she said she was going to try and not cry, have you asked her what SHE thinks would help her not be scared at night? Perhaps she can begin to handle it if she helps create a plan for her to handle the fear. *It might give her the feeling of power over her fear, that she is capable of beating her fear and not crying. Even if she can't express what is scaring her, perhaps expressing what will help her not be scared might give you an idea.* Perhaps taking a well-loved stuffed animal to bed as a guardian, or working out a 'magical' phrase that she could say to banish whatever is causing the fear.

Just an idea, even if I didn't express it that well. Good luck.
I think this is a very good idea. I think that whatever is bothering your dd is far more than a movie trailer.... I also believe that getting some assistance (not necessarily medical) may help as you are obviously drained and an objective party may help a lot.

Good Luck


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## OwensMa

Some good advice has been give. I hope the OP's DD is able resolve what's scaring her.
That said, some of the responses are in direct violation to:

"MotheringDotCommune User Agreement

You are expected to avoid the following when you post:

1. Posting in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, namecalling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.
2. Posting of profane or sexually explicit text. Discussions of a sexual nature should be within the realm of topics inherent to Mothering discussions such as sex after delivery, sex and the family bed, etc.
3. Posting of copyrighted material without permission. Details of copyright guidelines are available in the Rules and Guidelines board.
4. Posting to advertise your product or business. Acceptable advertising on the boards is available and information may be obtained by contacting the administrator.
5. Posting to invite members to other boards for debate purposes or posting about discussions at other boards. This is to maintain and respect the integrity of our own and other communities.
6. Posting to debate or criticize the MDC User Agreement, or to otherwise discuss the moderators, administrators, or their actions. Constructive criticism and questions for purposes of clarification may be sent through the Private Message feature or by email to the moderator or administrator.
7. Posting to discuss the statements or behavior of a member or members on the board, or to criticize another discussion on the boards. Such issues should be directed to the moderator or administrator privately and not made a subject of discussion in a thread. "

Why hasn't this been dealt with?

Let's keep the


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## BusyMommy

I think her opinion was that she understood why some folks were being snarky b/c the first post was ambiguous.
Whatever








I still don't get why people feel the need to lash out at other moms who are asking for help--not judgement.


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## veganmamma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BusyMommy*
I think her opinion was that she understood why some folks were being snarky b/c the first post was ambiguous.
Whatever








I still don't get why people feel the need to lash out at other moms who are asking for help--not judgement.

I think some people feel that Ldsmomma6 might have been posting to be inflammatory to begin with based on other things she's said. I don't want to make that judgement, but a lot of folks are very sensitive to jokes about circumcision, washing kids' mouths out with soap and spanking.

I do however, think that if one does not consider themself to be an attachment parent, that they might think to ask for support and advice at sites that support their parenting view, especially if they will not follow the AP advice they are given. If one is trying to learn about attachment parenting, even if they are not an attachment parent, and they think that they will get good advice that they would like to follow, then asking at an attachment parenting site is appropriate.


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## tracymom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *veganmamma*
I think some people feel that Ldsmomma6 might have been posting to be inflammatory to begin with based on other things she's said. I don't want to make that judgement, but a lot of folks are very sensitive to jokes about circumcision, washing kids' mouths out with soap and spanking.

I did think about this when the hostility started. I personally try very hard to not make assumptions about people's motivations for posting regardless of their past history, particularly when they have publicly stated that they are trying to learn better ways to parent, which she has done.

OTOH, these were "new members," so I did wonder the other night if veterans were creating new names and posting only here because of who the OP was. In that case, I would call them trolls, too. If one thought it was inflammatory or whatever, then one should ignore the post and simply don't respond to it. There are plenty of other people to respond to on the boards, if one feels that way.


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## veganmamma

tracymom- I agree, and I'm not sure if the 'trolls' were frequent lurkers or veteran users. I do have to say it felt to me like Ldsmomma6 might not want to seek better parenting methods judging by her first post. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt and so I'm trying myself to not be inflamed. Trolling is tacky- and I'm sorry if any of my buds were doing it, but it is. I think if you're convicted in your opinions you should post under your real username and if you weren't registered until this post made you feel so upset that you registered, you should say, address the troll accusations up front. Anyway, JMO.


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## anythingelse

http://www.pictureperfecthairbows.com/fairyline.htm
another thought, my dd has a fairyduster, this site sells them, I dunno if LDS agree wth this, but my dd really likes it, they have boys monster spray too
Carla is the mom that has this site
and I think I have seen a lilac or heather maybe scented pillow on another WAHM site maybe that also could help

please no flaming me on the magical fairy dust stuff







I would sprinkle about anything all over myself or the bed to get a good nights sleep

Mary


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## seren

LDS, Sorry your fmaily is going through this. Has your dh given her a lbessing? That might help.


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## Nemmer

Seren, you beat me to it. :LOL I was just going to suggest this too, LDSmomma6.

And I thought this advice is worthy of repeating one more time:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skipper*
I know you said you had talked to her and she said she was going to try and not cry, have you asked her what SHE thinks would help her not be scared at night? Perhaps she can begin to handle it if she helps create a plan for her to handle the fear. It might give her the feeling of power over her fear, that she is capable of beating her fear and not crying. Even if she can't express what is scaring her, perhaps expressing what will help her not be scared might give you an idea. Perhaps taking a well-loved stuffed animal to bed as a guardian, or working out a 'magical' phrase that she could say to banish whatever is causing the fear.

Make sure you try to validate her feelings. Let her know you can imagine how frustrating it must be to be so frightened she can't fall asleep. Ask her what she thinks you can do to help her. Make sure she knows you love her and will help her to get through this. I loved what JenniferZ said about her mom's reassuring words sustaining her through tough times even years later. Her mom didn't solve things in a huge, instant way -- but her words were reassuring and comforting, and that is what your daughter needs, at the very least.

When I was that age (about 9-13), I remember having uncontrollable crying sessions and my mom being annoyed by them. I think I remember once where I just yelled to her that I didn't know why I was crying (after being repeatedly asked, in a tone that made it obvious I shouldn't be crying) and she sort of had a light bulb go on. She said something along the lines of remembering what it was like to be my age and not understand why she was crying. That was the most comforting thing I ever got from my mom in situations like that.







I would love to have memories of a mom rubbing my back and supporting me through my fears and tears.

Anyway,







to you as you try to help your daughter through this.


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## mother_sunshine

Quote:


Originally Posted by *veganmamma*
I do however, think that if one does not consider themself to be an attachment parent, that they might think to ask for support and advice at sites that support their parenting view, especially if they will not follow the AP advice they are given. If one is trying to learn about attachment parenting, even if they are not an attachment parent, and they think that they will get good advice that they would like to follow, then asking at an attachment parenting site is appropriate.

ITA









I just wanted to add (to everyone) that I didn't think they were trolls. Trolls here at MDC usually go the opposite anti-NFL way and flame for no reason other than to flame. I think they were very strong opinions (and advice) to a very strongly-felt, very non-NFL, original post.

I try not to let the member name influence my response, and I think many others have done the same. The OP got a lot of very good advice (and a variety of kind-hearted solutions) that I hope helps this child through her problem.

LDS, how is she doing?


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## chellemarie

LDSmomma: You can also try some belladonna or pulsatilla (sp?) for her at bedtime. If you have belladonna around, it's also good for fevers and lots of other stuff. Money well spent.

If sleeping on the couch works, I say let her sleep there. Once you have a couple nights' rest under your belts, you can start to work on her fears and the cause.

To all the other mamas: I want you all to know one thing. I try very hard to keep my cool with my kids in difficult situations. Sometimes, that repressed frustration and anger has to come out somewhere. Calling my friend or mother or logging on here and saying, "Good lord, why won't this child just shut up already!?" doesn't mean I am abusive or need parenting classes. Real support isn't just about saying, "You do things I do. I like you." It's about reaching out and doing our best to be helpful especially when another mother is struggling.

Also, we're insisting she be very gentle with her child because that is what is good and right. But let's go ahead and rip her to pieces because that's okay? She didn't deserve our compassion because she's an adult?


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## veganmamma

Chelle- I don't think you were, i have the original in my inbox if you want to repair your post.


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## Lucky Charm

I read all ten pages. So much has been said, and some solid advice given.

I dont always agree with LDSm, but i feel i "know" her well enough to, one: be troubled by her op, and two: to think, imnsho, that she was, in fact, freaking out. here, with us, where maybe she felt safe enough to get all that crap off her chest.









I do think its something deeper with her daughter, but thats just me.

And for what its worth, i am almost 39, and afraid of the dark. I hate going into the basement, and i wake up frequently sweating and with a pounding heart. Why? because when i was 13 someone stalked me, and basically emotionally raped me to the point i no longer feel safe anywhere. Even with my 6'1" husband i cant sleep.


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## DreamerMama

Meh.

We all know that if you disagree with a person, your a troll.









I hope LDSm, that you took this advice and applied it.


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## Overproducktion

Quote:

when i was 13 someone stalked me
Ugh, I'm so sorry you had to go through that---it would scare the daylights out of me to this day as well.







Even though I've never had any thing freaky happen to me--I still am scared of the dark, basements...etc. I watched the Ring, and am still having nightmares.









I'm also sorry that I got snarky on this thread.







: I guess I just get defensive when I see some one getting harsh advice.







I've posted/vented before and well...I know how it feels is all.


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## tracymom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamerMama*
Meh.

We all know that if you disagree with a person, your a troll.









I hope LDSm, that you took this advice and applied it.

Good gracious, if that were true we'd all be trolls.

I consider a troll a person being deliberately over the top, pushing the limits of the user agreement, registering for the sole purpose of snarking around on one thread.

I'm not saying there *were* trolls here. It just looked darn strange to me that night. I haven't done a search on those usernames so I don't know if they're posting elsewhere and it was coincidental. Whatever. Back to our regularly scheduled topic.


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## DreamerMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tracymom*
Good gracious, if that were true we'd all be trolls.


I wasn't actually refering to your statement. You weren't the only one who cried troll. It was also implied that I was a troll, and all I did was disagree with the advice given...anyway, just had my panties in a wad. Don't mind me.


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## yequanamama

LDSmom, I'd also like to know what you've tried, because I wouldn't want to suggest something you've already tried, and risk sounding patronizing. Every night for two weeks does sound very serious. I'd love help brainstorm for solutions.


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## yequanamama

Whoops! Okay, so how did I miss that there were TEN pages here, not 2? Sorry about that. Looks like everything's been said!


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## LDSmomma6

First off I would never beat my child. I was just so frustrated, and I probably shouldn't have said that. Sorry to get things wild up here. I am so sorry.

As for my daughter and her sleeping issues. Things have been going better. I asked her one day to draw me a picture of what she was afraid of. She drew me a 2 pictures. One of a warewolf and one of a man standing next to a broken window. I asked her about them. The warewolf was from Harry Potter 3. I told her that it was not real. She knows, but she was just scared of the movie. She says she doesn't want to watch it again. I told her didn't have too, and that it was scarier, and that I didn't think I would be watching it again. For anyone who hasn't seen any of the Harry Potter movies, the first 2 movies were not scary at all compared to this 3rd movie. So, we talked about it some more, and then she told me about the 2nd picture. We had an attempted break-in back in March. The man actually got his hand in the house, close to the door before being seen by DH. The window was next to the living room where DD and 3 other siblings were sleeping that night because g-ma and g-pa were visiting, and sleeping in the girls' room. She didn't see if happen, but because the police showed up to get prints, she was up. She seemed to be fine. Never had a problem with it, I thought... I told her that dad has fixed the windows better, and that we put on more locks in the doors, and that DH has a ___ , and that we can call 9-1-1 on the phone. I also told her that she has the safest room in the house. She was like WHAT? I continued with "you have the safest room because your window cannot be opened. No one can get through your window at all. You have a window box, and no one can open it up, and even if they open the tiny window, they can't fit through it." I told her that she was so lucky to have such a safe room. Went on and on. Ever since then she has been sleeping the night. I gave her a bigger flashlight too. Last night I heard her whimper a few moments after getting Lindsey to nurse, but she stopped and was sound asleep after taking Lindsey back to her crib.

I don't know why it took me almost 2 weeks to figure this out (like I said it wasn't everynight at first...but it was getting worst when I first posted about it). That is why I like MDC because I can come in here and get the answers I need.







Most of you moms are the greatest!! There are few I could use without, but even they sometimes have good advice.







Oh, and just to let you know, I have taken a parenting class before. But, I am not perfect. Never have been perfect, or will be perfect in this lifetime.


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## neveryoumindthere

i'm sooooooooooooooooo glad to hear u figured this out!


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## lorijds

Thanks for the update!

Lori


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## anythingelse

(((((hugLDSmomma6 )))))
thanks for updating with your news


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## myboyz

I haven't read all the replies but this is a big red flag!!! One or two night might be melodramatic, as someone said but not this long. AND if for some reason it is an a attention thing, she will know that you take her and her fear seriously. If you don't she will do it longer or as she gets old, more intense ways for attention. If it is really from something big and you blow it off ...well..you know.


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## 3 little birds

So glad she is feeling better. The drawing a picture idea was a really good one! Thanks for letting us know how things turned out.


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## MamaMonica

Using pictures was a great idea. I'm glad you got to the bottom of it.


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## AnnMarie

Why don't you let her sleep with you when she's scared?


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## pugmadmama

Wow, Momma, way to go! I'm so happy for you and your daughter. She'll always remember that her mother cared enough to work through her issues with her. What a wonderful gift to give your child.


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## PikkuMyy

I'm so glad to hear you figured it out. That drawing thing I usually think of for younger children but I guess I was wrong - it worked for her!

And both things are quite rational for a child of her age to be scared about. Thank goodness it's things you can address (as opposed to something like molestation).

Things can get a little crazy here at MDC, but we are all trying to help, even if sometimes it comes out a little bit off...


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## Jessica36

I am so glad she opened up for you! Yea!


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## Nemmer

Oh, I'm so glad she was comfortable drawing you a picture! Good for you, for sticking by her side and helping her identify her feelings!














:


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## Snowbaby

Jumping in at the end ... read the whole thread and am soooooo glad you were able to figure out what has been going on with your DD. Poor baby - an attempted break in a truly a very scary thing. It's weird how children can seem just fine about a situation and then react to it in a totally indirect way. Glad that she opened up to you in her drawing and that things are improving. I say expect taht she may have a few setbacks - but things will overall continue to improve.

You are a great mom!! (I've never met or heard of a perfect mom ... they are a myth cultivated by societies all over the world or a delusion in the minds of some who believe themselves to be perfect). When I was around that age, an older girl (13 yrs old) in our neighborhood died in a motorcycle accident. I didn't personally know her but knew who she was and saw her all the time. I barely reacted to it at the time, but later woke up scared and crying for nights in a row and called out to my mother the first two nights of this. However, I honestly couldn't tell my mother what I was crying about or scared of. I just couldn't connect the two things at the time. My mother was nice the first night and then yelled at me the second night, told me not to bother her with my crying again and went back to bed (but my mother also beat us so the quality of her yelling was different than that of an otherwise good, patient, nonabusive momma who's having a bad day/ sleep deprivation ..... there IS a difference!). Anyway, the rest of the nights that I cried, I cried by myself because I knew if I woke her up, she'd hit me. I never, ever got over the fact that my mom was so dismissive of my fears.

Your daughter will ALWAYS remember that you worked very hard with her to figure out what was going on and she will be grateful for it and a much better person for it. She will not remember that you yelled at her in one moment of frustration b/c you did it in the context of still trying to help her and you cared and stuck it out with her and reassured her despite the frustration and THAT'S what counts.


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## Overproducktion

Quote:

(I've never met or heard of a perfect mom ... they are a myth cultivated by societies all over the world or a delusion in the minds of some who believe themselves to be perfect).
Amen to that!


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