# Baby's feet hang at edge of carseat



## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

My 7 mo's feet are right at the edge of the carseat. This doesn't seem safe to me. Shouldn't there be some room? We have a Baby Trend Flex Loc. We have the Diplomat as the next seat, but haven't switched him yet as it is much easier and warmer to use the carrier style. What are the rules for this?


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## ElaynesMom (May 24, 2008)

Your infant seat should be safe to use providing your ds is under the weight limit, and has 1 inch of hard shell above his head. As far as I have heard there haven't been any reported cases of broken legs in a rf child who had their feet extend beyond the bottom of the seat. In fact, many people choose to keep their toddlers rf, as it is safer, so inevitably these childrens feet would extend past the bottom of the carseat/touch the back seat.


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## cognito (Nov 30, 2007)

Feet hanging over the edge are fine. You'll have that especially once you have a RFing toddler. They figure out how to sit comfortably. Kids are so flexible.

The rule for RFing carseats is that the child must have at least 1" of shell above the head, be within the weight limits & straps at or below the shoulders.

I'm really hoping to make it through winter with my 6mo in his infant seat. He's short & only 17lbs so we might make it. It is nice to be able to bundle up inside the house when it is cold outside.

A fleece poncho is excellent for winter months when you make the move to a convertible. That's what we have done with our almost 2yo.


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## BeckC (Nov 27, 2006)

It's perfectly safe to have his feet touching the back of the seat and even to have them curled up or crossed. Like a PP said, that's what will happen as he gets older. The minimum to keep kids rear facing is 1 year and 20 lbs but they are sooo much safer after that to the maximums of their seat. Here are a bunch of pictures that show older kids rear facing. You can see what they do with their legs.

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum.aspx

Keep in mind that for the winter months, whether your lo is in a convertible or an infant seat, you dont' want to have any bulky coats on the baby. A fleece jacket or a poncho is great. You can also tuck blankets around baby after he or she is all buckled in or even put a coat on the kiddo after you buckle the harness. You just don't want anything bulky getting between child and harness.


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## syd'smom (Sep 23, 2008)

Yep - no worries. The 2 rules for carseats are weight limit and 1" of shell above the baby's/kid's head. DD is almost 2 and still rfing in her radian. There are some crash test vids on youtube that will show you why rfing is better. And actually, I would rather have my legs supported and crossed than dangling without support the way they would ffing. Just keep your eye on the weight and top of the head and you'll be all good!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Did you just get the Diplomat recently? If you did, I'd return it and get a Marathon or Boulevard. The Diplomat has a very short life as it's outgrown very young.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Did you just get the Diplomat recently? If you did, I'd return it and get a Marathon or Boulevard. The Diplomat has a very short life as it's outgrown very young.









:

Feet hanging off are fine as mentioned.

And the diplomat is a waste of $$...

-Angela


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

Thanks for the replies, the Diplomat will work for us. It's not a waste of money when it is the safest seat you can afford at the time.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

There are cheaper seats that will last longer.

If you can't return it, plan and budget now, you will need another (not cheap) seat most likely between 2 and 3.

You will probably need another CONVERTIBLE seat.

-Angela


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

I am considering the diplomat, I actually think a bigger seat will expire before outgrown...my ds is very small, and my oldest dd is very small, she stayed in her roundabout till 4.75 years old, and hadn't outgrown it yet, she just wanted a new, girlier, seat. She won't outgrow her boulevard before she's 8 unless she has a HUGE growth spurt between now and then, so it would of expired before she outgrew it had we gotten it first.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
Thanks for the replies, the Diplomat will work for us. It's not a waste of money when it is the safest seat you can afford at the time.









It's a very expensive seat for the amount of time it lasts. Really, you can get a Marathon, True Fit, or Evenflo Triumph Advance for the same price or less, and they will last you MUCH longer.


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
It's a very expensive seat for the amount of time it lasts. Really, you can get a Marathon, True Fit, or Evenflo Triumph Advance for the same price or less, and they will last you MUCH longer.

I really wanted the Boulevard because of the side impact wings and the Diplomat is closest to what I was looking for. We are comfortable with it. We know eventually we will need to get a booster or something. But this is right for us right now. We need to have 2 seats (1 for each car) because of daycare. I can't afford 2 of the seats we really wanted and the Diplomat, in my opinion, is the next best thing. It has the features I wanted....and doesn't have the highest weight limits, but, it will work for now.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I really wanted the Boulevard because of the side impact wings and the Diplomat is closest to what I was looking for. We are comfortable with it. We know eventually we will need to get a booster or something. But this is right for us right now. We need to have 2 seats (1 for each car) because of daycare. I can't afford 2 of the seats we really wanted and the Diplomat, in my opinion, is the next best thing. It has the features I wanted....and doesn't have the highest weight limits, but, it will work for now.

You will need a much more substantial (and expensive) seat than a booster. In all likelihood you will need another convertible seat to keep your child as safe as possible.

I understand working for now- but start budgeting. It's quite likely that you will need a new seat (or new seats...) around the time your child is 2 years old.

-Angela


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Isn't this the sort of situation that combi-seats were designed for? To let kids who are too large for low-weight convertibles 5-point harnesses for longer?


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Isn't this the sort of situation that combi-seats were designed for? To let kids who are too large for low-weight convertibles 5-point harnesses for longer?

Yes, and that's why it bugs me that seats like the diplomat are referred to as a waste of money. I have one and like it very much. Worth every penny. No it's not going to rf as long as others, but good grief, it's still an awesome seat! If DD were not SN, I'd have no issue turning her when she outgrew it rfing at ~2 years. But she has CP so we got a bigger seat. If she were typical, I'd probably use the diplomat as her back up seat (and have a bigger one for rfing longer in the main car) until she outgrew it ffing and then get something like a nautilus. Which is what people are doing with marathons and sceneras, ect anyway.

I'm a tech and all for erf and eh , but poo-pooing seats just because they aren't gigantic isn't doing anyone any good. Gently let them know that they will probably need another seat later. Leave it at that. If their kid is huge and outgrows it at 18 months, well, such is life. I'm sick of the smaller seats being crapped on. They serve a purpose. Get over it.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Isn't this the sort of situation that combi-seats were designed for? To let kids who are too large for low-weight convertibles 5-point harnesses for longer?

Except that seats like the diplomat/roundabout have such short shells that they significantly limit rf time as well. Dd would have outgrown those seats RF by height around 2 yrs. She didn't hit 33lbs until 3.5yrs. I think that staying rf is VERY important.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bandgeek* 
Yes, and that's why it bugs me that seats like the diplomat are referred to as a waste of money. I have one and like it very much. Worth every penny. No it's not going to rf as long as others, but good grief, it's still an awesome seat! If DD were not SN, I'd have no issue turning her when she outgrew it rfing at ~2 years. But she has CP so we got a bigger seat. If she were typical, I'd probably use the diplomat as her back up seat (and have a bigger one for rfing longer in the main car) until she outgrew it ffing and then get something like a nautilus. Which is what people are doing with marathons and sceneras, ect anyway.

I'm a tech and all for erf and eh , but poo-pooing seats just because they aren't gigantic isn't doing anyone any good. Gently let them know that they will probably need another seat later. Leave it at that. If their kid is huge and outgrows it at 18 months, well, such is life. I'm sick of the smaller seats being crapped on. They serve a purpose. Get over it.


Problem is that for families trying to get the most bang for the least $$ they are a false savings. You'll need to end up spending more than if you just got a bigger seat to start with.

I'm glad to see more (and less expensive) options on the market now like the true fit.









Basically the *ONLY* time I think the roundabout-sized seats are a good deal is if you have an INCREDIBLY tiny child who will get full use out of one, or you'll have several children close together and can pass it down.

-Angela


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Problem is that for families trying to get the most bang for the least $$ they are a false savings. You'll need to end up spending more than if you just got a bigger seat to start with.

I'm glad to see more (and less expensive) options on the market now like the true fit.









Basically the *ONLY* time I think the roundabout-sized seats are a good deal is if you have an INCREDIBLY tiny child who will get full use out of one, or you'll have several children close together and can pass it down.

-Angela

I don't purposefully steer people towards the smaller seats unless they have a specific need for them, but if they have already bought it, telling them they wasted their money isn't helpful. In a lot of situations, people buy these on-line and it's not easy to return them. Making them feel like they made a bad choice only upsets them.

You also have to realize that not everyone is gung-ho about rfing to the max limits. YOU are, but most people are not. If they are rfing to the max of the diplomat, that's still great. If they are intent on rfing as long as humanly possible, they won't even consider the diplomat. It's ok for people to turn sooner than 35 lbs. Really it is. I had to because my DS outgrew the seats by height. I could have spent another chunk of change on a taller seat but I chose not to. Ideal? No. But we all make different decisions for our kids. Saying "this is the only way and these are the only seats that work" just turns people off to erf and eh.

If you explain that rfing is safest and that those seats are outgrown relatively early, you've given parents the info they need to make a decision based on their child and their situation. If they choose a smaller seat, it doesn't mean they wasted their money. Maybe they DO have a very short-torsoed child. Maybe they DO need it to fit in a very small car (and no, not all kids can sit upright rfing). Maybe they really don't feel the need to rf past 18 months. Maybe they really just like the seat and intend to buy another, bigger one later on. Maybe erf'ing isn't important to them, but eh'ing is and they want a small seat to hold them over until the kid is old enough for a graco nautilus or a regent or whatever else. This is all ok.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

For some people, the Diplomat IS a huge waste of money. If I had bought one of those, I would have thrown $200 away. My DD outgrew the RA/Diplomat at 18 months and a whopping 17 pounds. I would have had to buy another seat just to get her to the legal minimums.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
For some people, the Diplomat IS a huge waste of money. If I had bought one of those, I would have thrown $200 away. My DD outgrew the RA/Diplomat at 18 months and a whopping 17 pounds. I would have had to buy another seat just to get her to the legal minimums.

My ds would have outgrown the harness on it by 2 1/2. Obviously WAY to young to go into a booster. So that's one thing to keep in mind too. And the cheapest HWH seat that is decent is about $150.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
My ds would have outgrown the harness on it by 2 1/2. Obviously WAY to young to go into a booster. So that's one thing to keep in mind too. And the cheapest HWH seat that is decent is about $150.

Exactly. Even if she HAD hit 20 pounds in the seat (and we were willing to turn her at 20 pounds, which I am definitely not) we would have to buy a new seat when she outgrows it FF'ing. My oldest outgrew it by 2 FF. Spending $200 on a seat that gets us less than 2 years is just not economical.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

I got a Roundabout when I had my daughter. She went FFing at 12 months (and 25lbs) because she was a screamer and I really couldn't deal with it anymore. If she had continued to scream, she would have gone back RFing, but she was much, much happier. She outgrew it FFing at 27 months. Ds went into that seat a month later at birth and outgrew it RFing by height at 14 months and 18lbs. I had to buy another seat to get him to the FFing minimum.

That said, I feel that the Roundabout/Diplomat is a great seat for people with small children (not my case) or small cars (which we did have when we bought the Roundabout and had until about 3 months before we traded it in for a new seat.) Is it the right seat for everyone? No, but no seat is.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elmh23* 
That said, I feel that the Roundabout/Diplomat is a great seat for people with small children (not my case) or small cars (which we did have when we bought the Roundabout and had until about 3 months before we traded it in for a new seat.) Is it the right seat for everyone? No, but no seat is.

But it's' really pretty hard to know if your kids will be small. And there is no reason to need a small seat for small cars- marathons fit fine in small cars- just install more upright. I've yet to see a car where a marathon couldn't install.

-Angela


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

A Marathon didn't fit in my Dodge Neon SXT with dh in the car. He's very tall and the seat had to be all the way back and the Marathon couldn't fit at all. We tried.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elmh23* 
A Marathon didn't fit in my Dodge Neon SXT with dh in the car. He's very tall and the seat had to be all the way back and the Marathon couldn't fit at all. We tried.

Did you have a tech try? I've seen them in some TINY back seats. They can go very upright AND be jammed up against the front seat.

But with your dh- couldn't the carseat have gone on the other side of the car?

-Angela


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## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
For some people, the Diplomat IS a huge waste of money. If I had bought one of those, I would have thrown $200 away. My DD outgrew the RA/Diplomat at 18 months and a whopping 17 pounds. I would have had to buy another seat just to get her to the legal minimums.

I just don't understand this statement. We have the diplomat and it says you can keep your LO rf until 35 pounds. So why did you stop using it at 17 pounds? My ds is 24 pounds and still uses his diplomat and we plan to keep using it until he outgrows it and we'll get him a booster.


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I just don't understand this statement. We have the diplomat and it says you can keep your LO rf until 35 pounds. So why did you stop using it at 17 pounds? My ds is 24 pounds and still uses his diplomat and we plan to keep using it until he outgrows it and we'll get him a booster.

The Diplomat is short, so it is outgrown by height before weight, especially for tall skinny kids. My kid outgrew her bucket (weight limit 22lbs) when she only weighed 16lbs. The previous poster's child presumably was too tall for the diplomat rearfacing (ie had less than 1" of shell above his head) when he weighed 17lbs, and since you legally HAVE to RF to 20lbs, she had to get another seat.

I'd highly recommend that you get another harnessed seat for your DS when he outgrows the diplomat. He may outgrow it before he even hits 40lbs. That is very small (and for many kids very young) to be in a booster (ie using a vehicle belt).


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I just don't understand this statement. We have the diplomat and it says you can keep your LO rf until 35 pounds. So why did you stop using it at 17 pounds? My ds is 24 pounds and still uses his diplomat and we plan to keep using it until he outgrows it and we'll get him a booster.

Rear facing you need an inch of shell above their heads to stay rf. Because of the very short shell on the diplomat/roundabout, most kids will outgrow it by height before weight rf (okay, probably ALL now that it's 35lbs.) When they have less than an inch of shell above their heads, you MUST ff them (or get a new seat) Then when ff you MUST have the straps at or above the shoulders and the tops of their ears can't be above the top of the shell. If either of those happen the seat is outgrown.

It is INCREDIBLY rare for a child to fit in a seat this size until they are ready for a booster.

the BARE minimum for a booster is 4 years AND 40lbs. Better at least 5 years old.

-Angela


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

I guess my two cents is that, yes, the shorter shell seats are not typically the best deal, but we as CPST's online need to be more tolerant and patient. There are things said online that would never be said IRL. I have seen moms ask NOT to have their posts moved into this forum. It's important to be respectful and considerate when advice is posted. It's also very important to remember that child passenger safety in REAL LIFE is very different than online.


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemyavery* 
I guess my two cents is that, yes, the shorter shell seats are not typically the best deal, but we as CPST's online need to be more tolerant and patient. There are things said online that would never be said IRL. I have seen moms ask NOT to have their posts moved into this forum. It's important to be respectful and considerate when advice is posted. It's also very important to remember that child passenger safety in REAL LIFE is very different than online.

This was exactly my point. I'm not trying to say the diplomat is economical. It really isn't. But some people choose them and that's ok. Being rude and snobby about seats turns people off. Period. If they chose a seat you wouldn't (and I mean already had it shipped to their house) just help them work with what they have. If they are considering a seat and you feel it's not the best choice, by all means, tell them your reasoning. But don't be snobby about a seat they already bought. It's not cool at all.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Did you have a tech try? I've seen them in some TINY back seats. They can go very upright AND be jammed up against the front seat.

But with your dh- couldn't the carseat have gone on the other side of the car?

-Angela

We didn't buy one, just tried it at BRU. When we had two kids, we put the Roundabout on the side but I could barely fit in the front seat (and I'm not tall.) When we had one kid, we wanted her in the middle. That way we both had leg room.


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