# Help me not to be nasty!



## Ornery (May 21, 2007)

Friday, a lady from my church (Quaker) is posting on Facebook about how sick her kids are. Projectile vomiting, fevers, diarrhea, the whole works. All day. I commiserate with her. Her children are ages 9 months, 20 months and 8 years.

Sunday is my day for Nursery duty at church. Her kids are the only kids that use the nursery. I show up and there she is with kids in tow. I express my shock at them being there. She assures me that are fine except still suffering from diarrhea. Apparently, they were sick from food poisoning from some Gerber Puff recall. I ask how the 8 year old got sick from it as well (yes, we have background of her bringing very sick kids to nursery with no consideration for the nursery workers or the older members of our church). She says he snacks on them as well. The whole thing leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth but I don't feel I can call her on it.

This morning I woke up with a crampy tummy but no biggie. Off to swimming lessons for kids we go. While at swimming I start vomiting and can't quit. Finally grab a barf bag and drive home vomiting. My stomach is crampy, I now have a fever and massive diarrhea.

Help me compose a message to her that is not mean but makes the point.

I am going to talk to the elders about this (a little uncomfortable as she is the DIL of one of the elders but I know they respect me).

In conclusion, I am not a germaphobe at all. I think nothing of a snotty nose, cough whatever. I don't use antibacterial anything and rarely use medications. However, I hold firmly to the rule of 24 hours after the last episode of diarrhea/vomiting and believe in acting with consideration towards my fellow person. Also, my father has AIDS, I am a primary caregiver and I have to be careful about checking who I am around for illnesses. My responsibility not theirs, but they need to be truthful.

Plus, I flat out HATE vomiting.


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## dachshundqueen (Dec 17, 2004)

I think that given your position as your father's primary caregiver and the likelihood of encountering a communicable illness volunteering in the nursery, you should let this go and resign yourself to the fact that volunteering in the nursery is too great of a risk for your father at this time. Kids are going to come in sick, either beginning, middle or tail end of an illness at some point. If you are not given the leeway to turn children away then you need to stop volunteering in this capacity. If you are asked why you cannot volunteer in the nursery, and the elders are unaware of your father's situation then you can tactfully explain that you provide care for someone with an immune system compromising illness and that it presents a danger to them.

Liz


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

i am surprised your church does not have a 'daycare like' code of expected behaviour.

perhaps its time to start that now.

also instead of writing her a personal letter i would write a general heads up = when to bring kids when they are sick to everyone who uses the nursery.

that happened to me. dd had her usual winter snotty nose when seh was 4. we had gotten late so she went to sunday school without a shower to get her stuffed up snot for the night out. so she sneezed in class and a HUGE amount came out. so they sent a letter to every parent outlining thier policy about sick kids. i didnt take offence. i understood with just a helper it really affects the class when they have to take and spend time cleaning up a kid.

however i agree with Liz. perhaps its time to cut out the volunteering for a bit while you are the primary caregiver for your dad. or do a different kind. i was a caregiver for both my compromised inlaws and during that time i voluntered in different ways rather than with children or anything that related to close contact with 'dont know very well' kids.


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## Ornery (May 21, 2007)

The nursery does have a strong rule, but she always ignores it or when you point it out to her (as I did on Sunday about the 24 hours from last episode of diarrhea), it is brushed off completely. After all, she used to be a medical receptionist so she knows when her children are infectious!

You all are right though. I guess I just want unleash my vitriol somewhere safe.

I am usually completely okay with normal childhood stuff. I attend multiple playgroups and we often have a bug that goes around. And we all have times where we aren't aware our kids are contagious and we expose others to it. However, this woman is consistent with complete disregard of others. The difference is that I think that if there is a CHANCE of infecting someone with nasty stuff, you stay home.

It really perturbs me as this past winter was really rough on her kids (they all had colds nonstop that turned into pneumonia multiple times) and each time she would bring them to church saying they were healthy and infect someone (not us but the elderly members).

So I am just going to ask to be removed from the list of nursery helpers. I really enjoy helping out though so it stinks that I have to do that because she is so inconsiderate.

Grr. I just feel really grumpy right now. I will calm down and be rational and loving and kind again soon!


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:

I am going to talk to the elders about this (a little uncomfortable as she is the DIL of one of the elders but I know they respect me).
I think this is all you need to do. Let them enforce the rules they have regarding the nursery.

If her kids are the only ones in the nursery & you were scheduled to work knowing they were sick why didn't you just refuse to do it?


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## 4Blessings (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dachshundqueen* 
I think that given your position as your father's primary caregiver and the likelihood of encountering a communicable illness volunteering in the nursery, you should let this go and resign yourself to the fact that volunteering in the nursery is too great of a risk for your father at this time. Kids are going to come in sick, either beginning, middle or tail end of an illness at some point. If you are not given the leeway to turn children away then you need to stop volunteering in this capacity. If you are asked why you cannot volunteer in the nursery, and the elders are unaware of your father's situation then you can tactfully explain that you provide care for someone with an immune system compromising illness and that it presents a danger to them.

Liz

^^this^^


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

I would post on her Facebook page, "Just so you know, it wasn't the Gerber puffs as I am now sick and I certainly haven't eaten any Gerber puffs" but then I have very very little patience for people who would drop off three sick children for someone else to deal with.

And then yes, I would stop volunteering to be her babysitter (if her kids are the only ones who use the nursery) if she's known to bring them when they're sick.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Honestly, in this case I would confront her. Re enforce the rule about sick kids, let her know just how sick you have been and tell her you will not longer be volunteering in the nursery since it puts your health at risk like this.


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## maddymama (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Mama,
I agree with pp that tactfully resigning your position as nursery worker may be your only defense at the moment, but it still won't stop HER from brining her sick kids to the nursery, and then getting other nursery workers, children, church members sick, etc.
Does your church have deacon meetings? Ours does once a month, and it's a great place to say, "Hey, if we don't have 'daycare illness' rules, we need to start and we need to enforce them." Then bring in a copy of typed up rules (search online) and push to get them voted on, approved, posted, and enforced (by an Elder). Our church has a policy that parents violate the sick child policy more than three times, their children are not welcome in the nursery anymore. Harsh, but necessary. We had a series of parents quit volunteering because of a family similar to yours.
I think it's different when you don't know you or your kids are contagious versus know they are and willingly putting other people at risk to catch the illness. I don't know how "Christian" it is to drop your contagious kids off at the nursery knowing that the worker and other kids are being exposed. Seems pretty selfish to me.
Good luck!
~maddymama


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## Ornery (May 21, 2007)

I figured out what is bugging me so much. She LIED to me. I knew it at the time but didn't have the ability to really push it. There may be a recall on puffs or whatever, but when I pushed it about why her 8 year old was also sick, it was blatantly obvious that she lied about him. I didn't have the guts to call her on it and now I'm paying the price.

Another life lesson learned







I just hope my kiddos don't get this as I am miserable!


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eclipse95* 
r (as I did on Sunday about the 24 hours from last episode of diarrhea)

now you know you cant even do that. you took her at her word of food poisoning and so thought nothing of the diahhrea.

be v. strict with the symptoms. unfortunately you cant really point fingers at anyone. but for future reference just make sure you follow your rules with her STRICTLY.

she knows you. she knows you history. this is absolutely terrible that she lied to you esp. when you are a caregiver to a sick immune compromised person.








i hope you feel better and your kids stay healthy.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Who's to say if she lied about her eight year old. Have you ever had those puffs? They are delicious. I know if two of my kids were eating them the third would want some as well. I mean, they are really really good.

The thing is it doesn't matter what caused the diarrhea . The stuff contaminating the food could easy be transmitted by fecal contamination. how do you think it got in the food? Something pooped on it. Then kids get sick, poop, get poop on hands, don't wash hands well enough, touch door know, you touch door knob,transmitted. easy as that. Food poisoning starts by eating contaminated foods but those germs can spread other ways.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

You know, I just brought DS to a playdate today after just recovering from an illness myself. I kind of regretted it after the fact when I did more research (and would probably skip it next time) but at the time, I honestly didn't think we were any risk to anyone. The peak of the illness had passed, we didn't have fevers or feel bed-bound, we weren't coughing/sneezing, but I did have a lingering sore throat & general fatigue still. I would have just as readily brought my kid in if all he had was lingering diarrhea. We go crazy being house-bond and are anxious to resume our normal activities as soon as we're feeling mostly better. DS is only a toddler so I haven't yet learned the 'rules' of navigating life with children, so now from what I gather it is inappropriate to go anywhere until everyone has been 100% recovered for 24 hours??? But then some things like colds are contagious for up to 2 weeks afterward, so do you stay home for 2 weeks even if you're feeling well?? And what if you are around the people so often that they were already likely exposed? It's hard (for me) to understand where the lines should be drawn because I am still used to the 'office' mentality of returning to work as soon as you're able to function on a basic level. I never worried about being contagious before -- I stayed home when acutely ill & went out when I felt mostly better.

Not sure what I'm trying to say, but I guess I can kind of relate to the mom, though it sounds like this is a pattern for her so maybe someone needs to be upfront with her about the expectations & understand your concerns. I don't think you need to write her a letter or anything, but have a casual, non-confrontational conversation about your concerns. You or the church need to give very clear guidelines (is it that no kids should come to nursery until ALL symptoms are gone? or no kids with certain symptoms? etc.) and then enforce them -- unenforced guidelines are pointless. I think if you make the guidelines symptom-based, that would avoid her brushing it off as 'food poisoning' -- i.e. if they have diarrhea, doesn't matter how they got it, they can't attend.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Contagion aside, I can't imagine having anyone else watch my 3 kids while they still had diarrhea. It's gross enough when it's your own child, but someone else's child? No way. I would've told her that when she dropped them off. I'm sorry, but I'm not dealing with that. Maybe the 8YO could handle it himself, but the 9MO and 20MO would need some help. It's not something I could see asking someone else to do.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
Contagion aside, I can't imagine having anyone else watch my 3 kids while they still had diarrhea. It's gross enough when it's your own child, but someone else's child? No way. I would've told her that when she dropped them off. I'm sorry, but I'm not dealing with that. Maybe the 8YO could handle it himself, but the 9MO and 20MO would need some help. It's not something I could see asking someone else to do.

Yeah that's a good point, unless she was going to come in to change diapers etc!


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## Ornery (May 21, 2007)

I've already made a hard and fast rule that I personally don't change diapers at church. The two littles had gross blow outs while I was there but I sent my older son to get MIL when they did (cross your fingers he doesn't get sick as this week are 2 a days and if you miss those, you lose your spot on the team).

The two littlest were definitely not feeling good. Big rings around their eyes, crying for momma alot (she doesn't want us to get her even if they cry). I watch them on rotation quite a bit and they are nice babies. Sunday they definitely did not feel well. And of course, maybe she just needed a break. I'm not a person who says you need to stay home through every cough and cold. Staying home for 24 hours after vomiting/diarrhea is a rule I would think every one knows. I do see her point of view though. However, her point of view right now doesn't stop my incessant vomiting, diarrhea, fever, and downright misery!


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Well if they were clearly still not feeling well then they definitely should have stayed home. I misunderstood & thought they were feeling better except for a little diarreah. I retract my "I can relate to her" statement.

Anyway, I hope you feel better soon & then find a way to get someone to enforce the sick-kids rule!


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
Contagion aside, I can't imagine having anyone else watch my 3 kids while they still had diarrhea. It's gross enough when it's your own child, but someone else's child? No way. I would've told her that when she dropped them off. I'm sorry, but I'm not dealing with that. Maybe the 8YO could handle it himself, but the 9MO and 20MO would need some help. It's not something I could see asking someone else to do.

That's what I'm stuck at as well. My 3yo has chronic diarrhea (recently discovered some food intolerances so it's getting better, but it's been going on for 2 years now!) and I rarely leave him with anyone because of it. Literally, I've left him with my mom, my MIL and two friends in a pinch because I didn't want anyone else having to deal with it. And we KNOW with him it wasn't contagious, mostly just a PITA.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Ya know, my dd had runny poops for most of her infancy but that us different from the kind of diarrhea that comes after a major intestinal illness. And yeah if my kids had it shooting out of both ends I wouldn't risk anything until they had been well for about a week. Its different from the messed up stool you get from eating something new or messing with your routine. This was the tail end (no pun intended) of a very serious viral/bacterial attack. Not only were they still clearly sick those poor babies need some time to recover before being hauled around places.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eclipse95* 
The two littlest were definitely not feeling good. Big rings around their eyes, crying for momma alot

i am REALLY trying to understand her point of view. i really am. but i just cannot relate. or even say i understand. there is no way i would be away from kids who were feeling so ill. no one would need to tell me that they would NEED me for comfort. i just cannot imagine leaving them with someone else when they are still feeling ill. i mean yeah i only have one child, but i have taken care of both of us thru the flu. at 18 months delirious with mastitis, i still had my baby with me. i cannot ever imagine someone else trying to take care of her while she is sick. it is only lately in the last few months that dd has let her dad take care of her. but if she is super sick then she wants MOMMY!!! and she has every right to ask for that.

my heart would break if i would have to leave them with someone else.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Since she's got a history of this BS, I'd be using language like "criminally irresponsible" and "despicable" and "feel that you betrayed me with your selfish deception"


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## Stella_luna (Jan 26, 2006)

WOW. It's nice that you don't want to be nasty, but in this situation, I think you're entirely entitled to be! I really, really can't stand people who do this. I always err on the side of caution with DD, keeping her home away from public places an extra day or two beyond what is recommended, out of consideration for others. I wish everyone else would do the same. I feel so bad for you. I would definitely resign from the nursery and tell the elders exactly why. What that mom did is so wrong to you, your kids, and your DAD! And at a church no less. Unbelieveable.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I think it would be good for you guys to follow the common "your kid is too sick to come if..." guidelines.


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## JavaJunkie (Jan 16, 2009)

Out of curiosity, I have tried to find something, anything, on a Gerber Puffs recall. I can't find anything. But there's got to be something. I mean, making up a food recall would be really weird.


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

Most daycares the rule for diarreah is that if it is able to be contained by their diaper (if wearing diapers) or able to get to the toilet without having an accident is ok, as long as they have not vomited for 24hrs.

I agree tho, it is a good idea for you to retire from this position entirely if you are a primary caretake for an immunocompromised person. The two positions will not do well together.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Honestly, if you've reported it to your elders I don't know that it's YOUR responsibility anymore. She isn't obligated to listen to you.

I also can't relate. If my son were that sick I'd skip church all together and catch a podcast or something. I can't imagine dragging sick kids anywhere...and then leaving them with someone else?


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## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

I can relate to this so much.
My DS's friends were in my house once when their mother KNEW that they have head lice that hadn't been treated yet. I found out from the eldest child that they had head lice and that Mom was going to get some shampoo for them. SHE NEVER told me!
Thankfully we didn't get it, but its inconsiderate!


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

The OP also isn't obligated to watch these sick kids either. She can report it to her elders and then un-volunteer herself from the position of watching only this woman's 3 kids. The woman doesn't have to listen to anyone really but OP is not out of line to say something and no one really has to watch this woman's kids.

People like this continue to get away with this type of behavior because no one calls them on it.
It takes a lot for me to let anyone watch my WELL kid let alone sick. No one but me and DH has taken care of my DS when he is ill.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JavaJunkie* 
Out of curiosity, I have tried to find something, anything, on a Gerber Puffs recall. I can't find anything. But there's got to be something. I mean, making up a food recall would be really weird.

I couldn't find anything either -- only Gerber recalls were from 2006/2007 & completely unrelated to puffs. That is really weird...


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Latte Mama* 
The OP also isn't obligated to watch these sick kids either. She can report it to her elders and then un-volunteer herself from the position of watching only this woman's 3 kids. The woman doesn't have to listen to anyone really but OP is not out of line to say something and no one really has to watch this woman's kids.

People like this continue to get away with this type of behavior because no one calls them on it.
It takes a lot for me to let anyone watch my WELL kid let alone sick. No one but me and DH has taken care of my DS when he is ill.

She DID say something to the woman already. So, IMO, she did all she can do herself and she needs to get others involved.


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## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
I couldn't find anything either -- only Gerber recalls were from 2006/2007 & completely unrelated to puffs. That is really weird...

It wouldn't surprise me if she did make the recall up, I mean recalls are in the news on a daily basis now. People make the weirdest stuff up!


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## Ornery (May 21, 2007)

Yeah, now I'm steaming a bit more. I can't find anything on a recall either. Now the question is do I send her an email asking her about it or confronting her about it?

And, as an aside, I shouldn't have even mentioned the bit about my father. That really has next to nothing to do with things, except for the fact that I inform everyone I am involved with on a regular basis (including her) and ask them to let me know if they have anything contagious. We don't live in a bubble and there have been a million times that my children have given my dad nasty colds. He was first diagnosed when I had my first son (14 years ago) and we have learned how to live with it. We just try to limit our contact with those who are contagious or be more careful washing hands, etc. Again, I am around small children constantly at the park, at the library, at playdates several times a week. I just ask that people let me know if they've been sick so I can make the call or let my dad make the call on an informed basis.


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## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eclipse95* 
Yeah, now I'm steaming a bit more. I can't find anything on a recall either. Now the question is do I send her an email asking her about it or confronting her about it?


I would confront her. You trusted her and she betrayed that trust!


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## IsaFrench (Mar 22, 2008)

I don't think it's worth it confronting her in fact

if she was able to behave as she did, she's not going to admit much ....

especially as you TRIED to talk to her about it at the time she dropped the children

on the other hand I should think that you could try using the most formal - but polite-language to let people know at your church, in a written form (not e-mail, on paper, with copies to whoever it might impact, not only the elders, but the other people helping out at Sunday school etc ...)
- that you cannot go on providing the sunday school service in the circumstances, circumstantces you would detail ... in details
- that you are sorry you are stepping down but your health as been seriously compromised by the negligence of a church member IN SPITE of the current guidelines in use (who takes care of YOUR children when you are so ill ??)
- the person you are caring for should n't have to suffer from the inconsiderate behaviors of others ...

basically the less you talk about it, the better (you are bound to le let some anger escape otherwise)

actions (stepping down BUT with making sure every one know why in written form) ... might be uncomfortable right now ... but in the long run, it's the option that you'll be more comfortable about (especially since she's the DIL of an elder, .... you may not want to engage in discussions about the past event if it can turn "funny" because of this fact ....)

basically, action => consequences (which are "sorry but no, for this and that reason", full stop, no longer talking about it, do you have something else to talk about ? otherwise end of discussion)

hope you'll feel better soon and good luck in finding a way to solve your dilema


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## WifeMomChiro (Jul 28, 2010)

The Biblical model is to first approach the person and then take it to the elders if there is no response. I am surprised that your church doesn't have a policy about sick children. I also think that it is a pretty short incubation period for you to be sick the next morning. Perhaps it is coincidence that you are sick? However, that doesn't change that she shouldn't bring sick children to church. Our church streams the service over the internet so people can watch from home if they have sick children. Perhaps that is something your church could look into.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I would also talk to the church about putting out an official statement regarding bringing any child who has had vomiting, fever, or diarhea in the last 24 hrs. That is actually usually a policy anywhere. If it ever happens again, I would tell her no and walk off from the nursery if need be.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dachshundqueen* 
I think that given your position as your father's primary caregiver and the likelihood of encountering a communicable illness volunteering in the nursery, you should let this go and resign yourself to the fact that volunteering in the nursery is too great of a risk for your father at this time. Kids are going to come in sick, either beginning, middle or tail end of an illness at some point. If you are not given the leeway to turn children away then you need to stop volunteering in this capacity. If you are asked why you cannot volunteer in the nursery, and the elders are unaware of your father's situation then you can tactfully explain that you provide care for someone with an immune system compromising illness and that it presents a danger to them.

Liz

I agree with this. Your own family is more important than volunteering in the church nursery.

I WOULD let her know that you caught her kid's food poisoning, and you aren't very happy.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Well, since this oldish thread is back, how'd it go?


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## Ornery (May 21, 2007)

I ended up bringing it up to her a couple of weeks later. She said something along the lines of "Geez, that stinks that you got sick but it couldn't have been us." I said something about not being able to find anything about the recall and she just murmured and abruptly ended the conversation.

I did speak with her MIL briefly about it but not at length. She just said that if there was ever a time that I didn't feel comfortable in watching the kids to let her know and she would take care of it. And I know she truly means it and she would have no judgment for me.

The biggest thing for me is that I have a difficult time calling someone out even if I know what they are saying isn't true. I tend to want to make peace and avoid confrontation and really try to see it from their perspective. I also have a personality conflict with her and usually when I really dislike something about someone, it is because it reflects a portion of me that I really dislike. So I am viewing this as a growth experience for me.

I have been showing up for my nursery duties regularly but haven't had her children yet. I plan on sticking to my guns should I see any hint of illness.

I appreciate you all being my sounding board. I need to start journaling again so I don't have to air my dirty laundry here.


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## ChetMC (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
Who's to say if she lied about her eight year old. Have you ever had those puffs? They are delicious.

They are! We can't buy them. We picked up a couple of cans for the baby at one point and all of our other kids devoured them like they'd never seen food before.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

I found out the hard way that food poisoning can be highly contageous. Sounds strange, and I would have denied it possible, until I and my son got food poisoning from a meeting (bad sandwhich meat), were sick for days, and ended up giving it to all my family within a week. That was the sickest I had been in as long as I could remember.

Now, when we suspect food poisoning, we take viral/contageon precautions.


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