# Another mother yelled at me at bus stop



## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

We were waiting for the bus this morning and one of my neighbors came to the bus with a pit bull they had just gotten. She is pregnant and still smokes - her son is very aggressive - she leaves her 18 month old outside unattended despite living on a busy road...not to mention she has a terrible temper. That being said, I always say good morning and make polite small talk.

Well, today she shows up with the pit bull and I asked whether it was a pit bull and she launches into this lecture on how nice they really are, if people would only research the breed, etc. etc. etc. So I said that my bil had one and it was very nice with us, but ended up attacking my dog. (We never let the kids near this dog) About this time my kids join all the other kids who are surrounding the dog and I said to my kids "B & B, please come over here, I don't want you petting that dog" in a very level voice.

She yells "That really offends me" and starts muttering nasty things about me.

So I said "I am much less worried about offending you than making sure nothing happens to my kids"

So she says a whole bunch of stuff which in summary was "Any dog can snap and you are being overprotective and are a rude person"

Then I took a deep breath and said "You know you are right any dog can snap and that is why I never bring my golden retriever to the bus stop. I think you are wrong to be offended because we have plenty of friends who are afraid of dogs and I am never offended when they don't want to be around my dog. I understand that people have had different experiences and I don't think you should be offended because I am not comfortable with my kids petting your dog" to which she said

"Well, I am offended you stuck-up bitch" and stormed off.

To which I took the bait and yelled "Oh, grow-up"









I am really freaked out. I get along great with everyone at our bus stop --- my friend was horrified by the whole incident and one of the fathers who was there was like "Hey, it is a pit bull" but I did pick up the vibe he thought I shouldn't have said anything. I am so upset that I fought with this woman with my children there and that I am going to have to deal with this woman. I just can't believe it escalated like that --- I really asked ds in a nice voice not to pet the dog --- how could that make her that pissed off?

What do you ladies think. Should I go to her house and try to create some peace before our kids get off the bus? Should I have not said anything until I had my kids alone? I am really second guessing myself and terribly upset.

Advice?
BJ
Barney & Ben


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## arlecchina (Jul 25, 2006)

........I am paranoid, I admit, but any dog around my kid(s) when he was smaller made me VERY UNCOMFORTABLE. (preg now, thats why I said kid, and kids, as this wont change







)

I dont think you were wrong in ANY way. She created her own offense. not everyone on the planet has to feel comfortable around any dogs.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Whoa- I think she was out of line, getting all bitchy because you told your children not to pet her dog. I'm not sure there's any way to smooth things over with her- and going over there would mean exposing yourself to her pit bull, right?


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## PortraitPixie (Apr 21, 2005)

wow...I think you handled it quite well...

Some people!







:

I might have lost it......


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## SimonsMamma (Jan 12, 2004)

I agree with the PP.. We all regret our reactions at times. But, when it comes down to the well-being and safety of your children, you have to do what is right. I think "making nice" would probably be futile as she sounds (to me) like she is looking for conflict anyway. I usually steer clear of overly-aggressive people anyway. However, I do not fully understand the implications for your children so... Big hugs to you as you work through this.

On a side note, I don't think people fully understand the reality of others' fear of dogs. My son in particular is very afraid of them. He only is comfortable around dogs he knows very well.

Hugs hugs hugs..

Karen


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## mamaley (Mar 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PortraitPixie*
wow...I think you handled it quite well...

Some people!







:

I might have lost it......









Yeah, what she said.

All things considered, i think you did a great job staying level headed.

Some people never cease to amaze me...(I mean that in both good and bad ways, lol)


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## mom2olivia (Apr 4, 2006)

You have every right as a parent to be concerned about your children's well being. And asking them not to pet a strange dog should not offend the owner. I'm sure you would have been concerned with any breed, so I personally would not have taken it as discriminatory...but maybe Pit owners are so used to defeding the breed that they are easily offended, not to mention it sounds as if this lady has a short fuse anyway.

Perhaps just to be the bigger person you can go over and tell her, since it was a "new" dog to your children in that environment you wanted to be cautious and that once you and your children know the dog better perhaps you will supervise them as they interact with her dog. And remind her - that is your position no matter who the dog owner is and what breed the dog is. It doesn't sound as if you want to be chums with this lady, but the fact that you will be seeing her regularly leads me to think its in your best interest to get the tension out of the way. If she isn't receptive at least you'll know you tried.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Um..well you are well within your rights to tell your children not to pet the dog. Based on your previous experience with this woman, it doesn't appear as if she'd be the type to be the responsible, cautious pet owner that pit bulls require. Pit bulls are a dog the require an owner that is fully aware of their capabilites and has done plenty of breed research. Based on the fact that she lets her 18 month old out unsupervised by a busy street, I'm betting she's not going to be too responsible with the dog. I always warn my children never to touch or approach animals that they don't know. It's just a safety precaution.


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## swampwitch (Jul 24, 2006)

I own two very sweet dogs, but they can also react unexpectedly at times. Children should _*always*_ be taught to ask the owner before approaching a dog and petting it.

There are ways to approach a dog that are appropriate, and ways that make the dog feel threatened...and some dogs are just on a hair-trigger. This is important for all people to know. I am actually very uncomfortable with people just coming up to my dogs and petting them without asking because they don't know if my dogs are friendly to strangers or not.

I think you took *absolutely* appropriate action. If I had been the dog handler, I would have stood behind your decision -- you are the parent, after all -- and helped by explaining to the kids that it can be dangerous to pet an unknown dog.

I try to model how to approach a dog when we are at the park and a child wants to pet one of ours, explaining what is proper and what is not. I figure, if they learn with my dogs, who are laid back and love the attention, then they'll know what to do and can avoid confrontation with more skittish dogs.

This lady is just defensive, I would guess, because she owns a breed with a bad reputation (thanks to stupid owners who train mean looking dogs to be mean). I'd let it go. She really should be more sensitive to the fact that she owns a particular breed that makes people nervous, even dog lovers.


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## Village Mama (Jul 22, 2004)

I am terrified of pitbulls. I was run at and followed by one when I had my two year old in the stroller and a 6 month old in the backpack. I was terrified. My dog was attacked by one when I was a kid. I understand that there are nice ones out there.... I don;t think that one should ever be brought around a large group of kids... kids are so unpredictable, and you dont know what will set any dog off. We have a no petting policy in our house, unless you ask the owner first. Even then I have taught the kids how to approach a dog properly.


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## BurgundyElephant (Feb 17, 2006)

Well, as a parent of an almost-six-year-old who screams and tries to climb up on me at the sight of a dog... I think you were in the right to tell her not to bring her dog to the bus stop. I know that's not exactly what you said, though.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I am going to go out on a limb here.

She might like to provoke confrontations.

She might (I know this sounds illogical) like you better now that you have reacted to her.

You will just have to see.


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## Ivan's Mom (Jul 10, 2006)

I hate confrontation too, but I always seem to find it.







:

I really do not like this woman, and I have no idea who she is.









You have every right to tell your kids to stay away from a dog, any dog, or any animal for that matter. And this is comming from me, an animal rights activist!

Children are our responsibility to protect, all children, our's or not.

This woman is a creepy character, smokes while pregnant and not looking after her little baby. I do not know how to make nice with people. I am having a hard time with my neighbors as well. I have a current post about it.

Just know that you were kind and that you were right in protecting your chindren.


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## Wugmama (Feb 10, 2005)

Hmmm, I ALWAYS tell my 4 yr old dd NOT to pet dogs we don't know. I thought that was a common thing to do. I can't imagine why she freaked out at you like that.

Your kids started school already? In MN, we always start the day after labor day.

~Tracy


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## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

I don't think you did anything wrong at all. Even the part where you said "grow up" was ok because she was acting childish to call you names. I don't think you owe her an apology, if anyone should apologize it is her. My DS is 3.5 and I don't let him pet any dogs we do not know. EVER. I've had bad experiences with dogs as a child and I'd rather errr on the side of caution.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Village Mama*
I am terrified of pitbulls. I was run at and followed by one when I had my two year old in the stroller and a 6 month old in the backpack. I was terrified. My dog was attacked by one when I was a kid. I understand that there are nice ones out there.... I don;t think that one should ever be brought around a large group of kids... kids are so unpredictable, and you dont know what will set any dog off. We have a no petting policy in our house, unless you ask the owner first. Even then I have taught the kids how to approach a dog properly.

I am, too.

In our little neighborhood, two people have pits that scare the daylights out of me. We all share a yard, as it is duplexes with the backs to each other. One if pretty nice and the owner controls it well. But one neighbor lets his huge pitbull run around unsupervised and unleashed. Almost every time I go outside it tries to attack my puppy before we have to flee inside. The poor girl is getting scared to pee. And it has scratched me pretty badly to get to my puppy.

The other day it started attacking the new neighbors moving in across my way. The guy came outside and was like "he's nice, he won't hurt you, dude". ANd the new neighbors (rightly) freaked out on him. I have talked to the guy, and then 10 minutes later it's doing it again.

I would call the humane society, but I don't want the good neighbor to get her pit taken or banned when it is actually decent.

Sorry for the rambling, but I think that the OP did the right thing. I would have probably freaked out if it was my own children. I do not take dogs-especially agressive breeds-lightly around children. They may not _try_ to hurt, but they can. I have been attacked by a fair share of "nice" dogs in my life.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

I think you acted wonderfully, you did a great job sticking up for your beliefs. I find that oftentimes, most people can't handle confrontation but that doesn't mean it's not good to have. That woman is completely wrong. How irresponsible for her to bring her dog (any dog really) into a group of kids but IMO especially a pitbull.







:

I'd be tempted to call someone about it...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys*
a pit bull they had just gotten

I just re-read the OP. This was a dog THEY HAD JUST GOTTEN. This woman has NO F$&*ing idea what that dog is capable of. Would animal control give her a good talking to over the incident? Was the dog even on a leash?


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## AmyLaz (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:

So I said "I am much less worried about offending you than making sure nothing happens to my kids"
I think you were well within your rights and acted appropriately. I love that you were able to come up with the above comment in the heat of the moment! It speaks to the heart of the matter - you were concerned for the well-being of your children above all else. If doing what we know is best for our children makes other people uncomfortable, that's unfortunate, but that's their issue, not yours. Your children saw you sticking up for their welfare, and that's not a bad thing. Hopefully, they will still be able to get along with her children in spite of this incident (kids seem to forgive and forget much more easily than adults, anyway!). I think you have nothing to second guess yourself about!


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## sparkprincess (Sep 10, 2004)

Yeah, I think that woman was waaaay outa line. Good grief. I've heard so many stories about dogs attacking children - and not always "bad" dogs either! Kids and dogs together are not always a great mix.

I don't think you should walk on eggshells around this woman, but try to let her words and behavior roll of your back. It doesn't sound like she's about to change any time soon.


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

As an owner of two dogs, one of whom is a pit mix, I make sure I"m considerate of others feelings. I also teach my own dd not to approach ANY dog, large or small, without the owner's consent and my being right there. It's a safety issue.

Yes, pit owners tend to be hypersensitive. We can't help it. that does not excuse her calling you a bitch though.

I do think that you were reasonable in asking your children not to pet the dog. I make it a point not to trust any dog not my own. Period.

it may be helpful to talk to her later when things cooled down and explain that you would feel that way about any dog, any breed.


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## rharr! (Nov 9, 2005)

I would not go make nice. I would be polite at the bus stop if its possible.

I don't let my daughter around any new, and some familiar dogs. Her reaction is not uncommon for some reason. I am not sure why people get offended that I wont let thier dogs in my childs face.
I do not let my very well trained, baby loving dog in anyones face. It is not acceptable, or necessary, and what if something did set her off? what then?


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverSky*
I think you acted wonderfully, you did a great job sticking up for your beliefs. I find that oftentimes, most people can't handle confrontation but that doesn't mean it's not good to have. That woman is completely wrong. How irresponsible for her to bring her dog (any dog really) into a group of kids but IMO especially a pitbull.







:

I'd be tempted to call someone about it...


Call who about what?

Seriously, calling the authorites can creating a horrible situation ie CPS getting involved over nothing.

If the dog is aggressive, by all means, talk to someone about it, but jumping the gun can hurt her family.


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## Tummy (Feb 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys*

What do you ladies think. Should I go to her house and try to create some peace before our kids get off the bus? Should I have not said anything until I had my kids alone? I am really second guessing myself and terribly upset.

Advice?
BJ
Barney & Ben

Go to her house, NO. She may start even more crap with you, perhaps even become violent with you.

I would just talk to her at the bus stop in front of others. Explain to her your concerns, and that it was NOT an attach on her as a person... kwim


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I am never offended that parents sometimes call their children away from me or pull them to cross the street when I am walking my two Rottweilers. Atleast mom is doing something to prevent a potential problem. Its great that you teach your children to not pet strange dogs. Any breed can bite if they are injured or frightened. I have only been bitten by small dogs (other than trying to break up a fight between MIL's german shepard and my rottie- what was I thinking? The german shepard got me pretty bad.) but ALL dogs can bite. What gets me mad is seeing kids walking down the street sticking their hands over the top of fences and through fences to pet dogs, even dogs that are barking! I guess they don't have a mommy that taught them to not do that.


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## TudoBem (Aug 30, 2004)

That woman sounds really aggressive. it's good you stuck your ground. I would avoid speaking with her but if she says something you should respond but don't try to be necessarily overly nice or polite (just matter of fact). People like that don't operate on a civilized level typically. I know because we moved into a neighborhood with a real undesirable family with an aggressive dog. We've been the best off by defending our child, calling animal control whenever something comes up and not being bullied by them. Some people like to feel they have the upper hand and enjoy seeing others uncomfortable or fearful. It's been a real eye opening and disturbing experience for us as we are not accustomed to dealing with people like that.
She just sounds similar to our neighbors unfortunately.


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## Fiercemama (May 30, 2003)

There was a whole long thread on my other mama's group about offended dog owners - we have a number of great parks in our city that are really known as "dog parks", and you've got to be prepared to deal with dog owners if you go there.

I've had a run-in with a dog owner in my neighborhood too. We are next to a schoolyard that we cross to get home. During the winter, DD and I were playing with our sled in the snow. A big dog comes bounding into the yard, straight at us. He probably just wants to play, but I'm not much comfortable around dogs, and the dog is at least twice the size of DD (she was 4 at the time). I just scooped her up, turned away from the dog, and loudly but calmlyl asked the owner to come and get their dog. The owner was not even in the schoolyard yet, and was not in eye contact with the dog.

He got all huffy and defensive, "my dog is friendly blah blah blah". I said "I don't know you and I don't know your dog, and I don't rely on the word of strangers to keep my child safe". I don't care if people are offended - I don't take those kind of risks with my child's safety.

I'm sorry that you had that kind of a run-in with someone you see regularily in your neighborhood. I think you did the right thing. I wouldn't be worried about the message you've sent your kids. You've sent them a message that you WILL be assertive when it comes to their safety. IMO, we too often go against our instincts to keep ourselves and our kids safe because we are trying to "play nice".


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

You're in the right, here. You don't owe her an apology.

Since it sounds like you're bothered by your last response telling her to grow up have you thought of a better way to have ended it? If so, just talk to your kids about it, let them know how you feel you could have handled it better and see how they feel about it. Talking about it will probably help.

She sounds like a bully and she is the one who made the situation uncomfortable, confrontational and then spiraled down to rude, aggressive behavior. You could have joked with the others at the bus stop after she left that you should have been more worried about her attacking you then her dog.









Keep on taking the high road when you see her. Act like she doesn't scare you, bother you or get under your skin. I bet she won't bother you about it again.

If by some odd chance she apologizes to you don't feel that you have to apologize back. You are protecting your children and you have every right to do so. The way you acted and what you did is not unreasonable.

Hugs to you, you did a great job in a tough situation!


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## TudoBem (Aug 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain optimism*
I am going to go out on a limb here.

She might like to provoke confrontations.

She might (I know this sounds illogical) like you better now that you have reacted to her.

You will just have to see.


I totally agree with captain optimism here.
Remember that uncivilized schoolyard bullies do grow up, become parents and populate neighborhoods.


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## Sol (Mar 4, 2006)

You're perfectly justified in not having your kids pet other dogs. I have a couple of dogs who are very docile and tolerant towards kids, but my children know they must never touch or tease other dogs because not all dogs are like ours... similarly I would never be offended if other parents stopped their children playing with my dogs (something that happens often, one of my dogs is a bit scary looking







) and if children I don't know ask if they can stroke the dogs in the street or the park I always ask them to check with their parents first.

I've had people be _very_ rude and offensive to be about my dogs, particularly because they're often off the leash, but at the end of the day as a dog owner you have to realise that a lot of people are scared of dogs, have had bad experiences with dogs, and are protective and concerned for their children.


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## clane (Aug 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys*
What do you ladies think. Should I go to her house and try to create some peace before our kids get off the bus? Should I have not said anything until I had my kids alone? I am really second guessing myself and terribly upset.

Ugh! Sorry your day started so crappy and you had to deal with a mega-b!tch like that. No, no, no & NO! I do not think you should have to do anything else with her. She should be searching you out to apologize to you (although I doubt she will). She sounds very defensive of her (poor) decision to bring the dog along. Lots of children are afraid of dogs. We have a few such kids in our local playgroup, and I make sure my dog is in the laundry room (her room, like a really big crate







) when they come over. I do not think there is a need to take any dog to a bus stop, etc. where children are gathered. A dog park, fine. People expect to see dogs there. Not at the bus stop.

My DD was bitten by a family members dog last year. A yellow lab- sweet, mellow dog. She fell on him while he was sleeping. It ended in 9 stiches in the cartiledge of her ear and a pretty noticable scar.

You did what you felt was needed to protect your children. You did it in a calm manner, you didn't chew her out for her poor choices & it really isnt your fault she over-reacted (defensive much?!) and she continued to display poor decision making skills by resorting to name calling in front of the kids. Her being offended is her problem, not yours. She'll either get over it or get an ulcer-either way it's still her issue.


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

Thanks for the support ladies! You know I do always require my kids to ask owners before they pet ALL dogs and I hardly ever let our very very sweet dog who we have had for 8 years around other kids (I also put him in the laundry room when kids come over) because I respect that he is a dog and don't know how he might react to new kids or how they might react to him.

That being said I am not sure I would have had the exact same reaction to a different breed...there are a handful of breeds that I think require extra caution based on their breeding history, size and strength. In all fairness the dog was on a leash and last year one of the bus stop families got a lab puppy (it was much smaller and younger when they brought it to the bus stop though) and I didn't tell my kids not to pet it though I did tell them to wait until the other kids were done petting it since we didn't want to crowd or scare it. I REALLY love and respect dogs and often think they end up hurting kids because we don't protect the kids or the dogs in an iffy situation.

I do understand that pit bull owners might feel sort of defensive of their dogs, but she has only had the dog for 4 days!!!! I almost wonder if she bought it just to have something else to fight with people over, ykwim?

Anyway, thanks for all your support. I doubt my kids and hers would ever get very friendly anyway --- their grades are off and her son does things like point toys guns at my son while yelling "die sucker" that have made my son avoid playing with him on his own.

BJ
Barney & Ben

P.S. Chesire - you are right I am bothered by my last response, but I can't think of anything I wish I had said instead.


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

I bet it kind of felt liberating to tell someone to grow up. If you can't think of anything better then pat yourself on the back that you didn't stoop to crude name calling!


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## gdmwtf (Jul 29, 2005)

Here in Chicago there was just a series of heartbreaking articles in the paper about a boy that was almost killed by pit bulls that went on a rampage attacking several people in their neighborhood one day - including their owner. They had never done anything like that before. It's absolutely sickening to read about the painful lifelong injuries this boy has suffered.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...530929.special

(you might need to join for free to read this.)

I thought I heard the number two cause of injuries to kids was dog bites.


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gdmwtf*
Here in Chicago there was just a series of heartbreaking articles in the paper about a boy that was almost killed by pit bulls that went on a rampage attacking several people in their neighborhood one day - including their owner. They had never done anything like that before. It's absolutely sickening to read about the painful lifelong injuries this boy has suffered.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...530929.special

(you might need to join for free to read this.)

I thought I heard the number two cause of injuries to kids was dog bites.

Yeah, dog bites are very common.

*off on a drift*

I do wonder how many of the dogs are actually pit bulls or rotties or whatever.

There is a "find the pit bull" page I used to post, and most people would get it wrong. Same thing with other large breeds. I do believe that more care is required with any large dog due to sheer muscle mass. All dogs should be trained though, and leashed.


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## Qestia (Sep 26, 2005)

Just want to add my support to the OP, you didn't do anything wrong and if I were you I would avoid interacting with that woman as much as possible, she seems to be looking for trouble.

FWIW, my sweet-looking small mutt bit a grown man last year, completely out of the blue (well, she had nipped my DH before and had some other aggression issues--but immediately before this incident she was acting very friendly and nice). We actually had her put down... but I'm just throwing that in to say, no, you can't trust a strange dog regardless of appearance and it's really best to be cautious and any responsible dog owner would acknowledge that. I still have another dog that I have had to pick up at times when kids have come at her without asking permission (she's gentle but very shy).


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## crissei (Oct 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys*
Thanks for the support ladies! You know I do always require my kids to ask owners before they pet ALL dogs and I hardly ever let our very very sweet dog who we have had for 8 years around other kids (I also put him in the laundry room when kids come over) because I respect that he is a dog and don't know how he might react to new kids or how they might react to him.

That being said I am not sure I would have had the exact same reaction to a different breed...there are a handful of breeds that I think require extra caution based on their breeding history, size and strength. In all fairness the dog was on a leash and last year one of the bus stop families got a lab puppy (it was much smaller and younger when they brought it to the bus stop though) and I didn't tell my kids not to pet it though I did tell them to wait until the other kids were done petting it since we didn't want to crowd or scare it. I REALLY love and respect dogs and often think they end up hurting kids because we don't protect the kids or the dogs in an iffy situation.

I do understand that pit bull owners might feel sort of defensive of their dogs, but she has only had the dog for 4 days!!!! I almost wonder if she bought it just to have something else to fight with people over, ykwim?

Anyway, thanks for all your support. *I doubt my kids and hers would ever get very friendly anyway --- their grades are off* and her son does things like point toys guns at my son while yelling "die sucker" that have made my son avoid playing with him on his own.

BJ
Barney & Ben

P.S. Chesire - you are right I am bothered by my last response, but I can't think of anything I wish I had said instead.

I'm going to stick my neck out a little here...







:
I see nothing wrong with how you handled the situation with the dog but, I do think that the above statement sounds a tad "stuck-up"
Perhaps she has been sensitive to previous things you may have said or done and the dog issue just put her over the edge.
I'm not trying to pick at you but, you seem genuinely concerned about this.
Just trying to help.


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## SimonsMamma (Jan 12, 2004)

I found this page.. I don'tknow if it's the same thing, but interesting to look at all the "look alikes.."

Peace
K
http://www.emersonanimalhospital.com/868330.html


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## deleria (Mar 8, 2004)

I would post a longer message, but I'd just be echoing what others have said.

You did a good thing, mama. I'm sorry she took offence, but that doesn't change that you had every right to put your children before her comfort level. Way to go


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## sunshinestarr (Jan 5, 2006)

This woman is obviously out of her mind.







Don't go to her house!!!


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## Fiercemama (May 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cheshire*







I bet it kind of felt liberating to tell someone to grow up. If you can't think of anything better then pat yourself on the back that you didn't stoop to crude name calling!

"Oh grow up" is such a great comeback. I love it.

OT - one time DD and I are riding on the subway. Its crowded. The last seat is next to one of those delightful men who feel they must claim territory by sitting with their legs splayed across 1.5 seats and display the crown jewels too I guess. I had to sit with DD on my lap. I asked the guy politely to please move over. He ignores me, so I give him a nudge. He gets all tough on me - but it was laughable. He looks at DD and mutters under his breath that he's gonna kill her. I had to laugh, really. "Oh grow up" was the only thing to say.


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## jake&zaxmom (May 12, 2004)

You did exactly what I would have done.

My niece has a pit bull and for some reason brings it to my mother in laws house when she visits. Makes no sense to me because then she can never figure out what to DO with it when she gets there-MIL doesn't let it in the house and it tears up the car when left alone so she usually ties it with a leash to a tree







I always take great care to see that my children are well away from this dog and this is offensive to my niece and nephew. Nephew never fails to launch into his defense of pit bulls spiel. How I am wrong to paint ALL pit bulls with the same brush because SOME pit bulls are aggressive, blah, blah, blah...

If I am wrong and it is the most gentle dog on God's Earth then at the very worst, my kids missed an opportunity to play with a dog. If I am right, I have protected my kids and that is my job. Between the kids and the dog...gonna hafta choose the kids. It is kind of weird how passionate he can be about defending that breed, I don't think I have ever seen him feel so strongly about anything else...whatever.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

My dog is a total marshmallow and yet I try to keep her away from kids we don't know or groups of kids. It's just good sense. I don't want her getting overexcited and scaring a kid who isn't used to dogs, or knocking someone over (which she could do just with a friendly headbutt since she's so big.)


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## Katie Bugs Mama (Feb 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys*
About this time my kids join all the other kids who are surrounding the dog and I said to my kids "B & B, please come over here, I don't want you petting that dog" in a very level voice.

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a minute. You didn't say to your kids, "Remember, we don't pet _any_ dog that we don't know well" or "Remember, we don't pet _any_ dog in crowds like this -- they can get scared." You said "I don't want you petting _that_ dog," implying that there was something wrong with her pet and that you would allow your children to pet other dogs under similar circumstances.

If you had been talking about one of my dogs that way, I would have been hurt and upset. Of course, I certainly wouldn't _yell_ at you about it, but I would have been annoyed with you.

ETA: I just want to be clear that I'm playing Devil's advocate. I'm very careful to keep my dogs away from children that they don't know really well and would never take them to a bus stop or any where else where they might come into contact with kids who might scare them or be scared of them.


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## bauchtanz (Nov 15, 2005)

I guess I am in the minority here that I think your comments did come off as rude. I would have said something like: Now kids, we don't pet unfamiliar dogs, do we? (which should be a standard rule, not "not petting THAT" dog, which I think is what she took it as)

Any dog can attack at any time and a parent that belives one breed is more dangerous than another is in for a shock when thier beloved golden retreiver bites someone (my husband was attacked by one of those "gentle, never does any harm" golden retrivers). A friend of mine's daughter has been bit TWICE by "family" dogs.

Well, it is done now, over with, so what are you going to do about it now? Those pesky bus stops are just as political as the PTA. I would nix the small talk and just chalk it up to the two of you don't get along, and move on with life.
That's just my 2cents.


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## gwynthfair (Mar 17, 2006)

As the owner of a pit-mix, I can say that we can be a little defensive as they seem to be the current breed to blame for everything and constantly being harassed about it gets very old. Not that this excuses her behavior, at all.

The general point I do want to make is that children should NEVER be left alone with ANY dog. Most people who think their dog is "nice" and "loves children" merely TOLERATES children and is very capable of biting...which is normal behavior for ALL dogs. Many, many people misinterperate dogs' body language this way. Parents who teach their children to never pet a dog without first asking permission from the owner are very wise. Additionally people who cannot control their dog off leash should never have their dog off leash regardless if they believe the dog is "friendly."


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gwynthfair*
As the owner of a pit-mix, I can say that we can be a little defensive as they seem to be the current breed to blame for everything and constantly being harassed about it gets very old. Not that this excuses her behavior, at all.

The general point I do want to make is that children should NEVER be left alone with ANY dog. Most people who think their dog is "nice" and "loves children" merely TOLERATES children and is very capable of biting...which is normal behavior for ALL dogs. Many, many people misinterperate dogs' body language this way. Parents who teach their children to never pet a dog without first asking permission from the owner are very wise. Additionally people who cannot control their dog off leash should never have their dog off leash regardless if they believe the dog is "friendly."









And as the mother of a child, I can attest that my child might take a stick and start whacking that very "nice" dog who "loves" kids because the dog ISN'T doing anything.


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## craftymom (Jun 27, 2005)

I think you did nothing wrong. She sounds lke a piece of work. Personally, I would never take a largeish dog (as in, one I couldn't pick up!) to a large group of kids.

I have never had any dog owner react in any offended-like way when telling my boys not to touch their dog! I always get 1 of 2 reactions--a relieved "thank you" kind of look and/or explanation ("my dog is very old and nervous around kids"), or a "Oh, come on over, [the dog] likes kids..." and then I/we work on the let them smell you, etc.

I bet she just likes trouble.


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

My sister owns a pitbull. He's a total marshmallow... loves to play and cuddle... But he thinks that anything his size, including kids, are playmates... and pitbulls play rough. My son ended up with a (non serious) cut on his forehead because as my sister was telling him how nice the dog is, showing him how to pet him properly, the dog moved his head to meet my son's hand and my son got startled and jumped back and threw his hands up in the air. The dog of course jumped with his mouth open like my son was playing, and scratched (not bit) my son's forehead with his teeth. Something similar happened to a girl down the street while my sister was walking him. The only reason they didn't put him down was because it was obviously not a "bite", but he does have to wear a muzzle when he goes out now.


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## Getz (May 22, 2005)

Ug. This woman doesn't sound like the responsible owner a pit bull needs. Why these people want bully breeds is beyond me, talk about setting the dog up for failure.

I always instruct my nephew not to pet unknown dogs, big or little. You just don't know their temperment. And yes, I would be especially leary of a pit or a rott. Don't get me wrong, I think they are fine dogs and excellant family dogs, but they can be very protective of their families. The lady that we bought a house from had a pit that tried to attack me (seriously) and yet the dog was fine to play with her neices and nephews.

I don't think you did anything wrong. We all have our moments when we wish we could tell someone to grow up (and kudos to you for doing it!). Sounds like this could be a diaster waiting to happen, poor doggie.


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## mamadawg (Jun 23, 2004)

To the OP: I think you did the right thing. You went with your instincts & that is never the wrong choice, when it comes to parenting. I'm a serious dog lover and I have very little fear of dogs, but I respect others who aren't so comfortable with them. I have a dog that is kind of moody toward strangers and I would never be offended if someone said something about him like you did. Then again, I would not to bring my dog around lots of children who didn't know him because, even though he's the best dog in the world (well all say that, don't we?







)and is a superb "big brother" to my daughters, I can't predict how he will act around other children.

Something is wrong with that lady, IMO. I can understand why you'd want to mend fences with her, but it's not absolutey necessary. You weren't out of line at all--she was.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gdmwtf*
Here in Chicago there was just a series of heartbreaking articles in the paper about a boy that was almost killed by pit bulls that went on a rampage attacking several people in their neighborhood one day - including their owner. They had never done anything like that before. It's absolutely sickening to read about the painful lifelong injuries this boy has suffered.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...530929.special

(you might need to join for free to read this.)

I thought I heard the number two cause of injuries to kids was dog bites.

This is absolutely heartbreaking. What an incredible child he is.


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

Crissei - I want to clarify that I meant their grades in school not their academic marks. Her oldest son is in third grade whereas mine is in first and her middle child will not start kinder until mine is in second grade....not that mine get A's and hers get C's. Just that the kids don't have any interaction beyond the bus stop.

You are all right that I did say "that" dog - another family brings their dog to the bus stop (I wish they wouldn't and I again I would NEVER bring mine) but we have known the other dog for years and my children do pet it when it was there.

BJ
Barney & Ben


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## crissei (Oct 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys*
Crissei - I want to clarify that I meant their grades in school not their academic marks. Her oldest son is in third grade whereas mine is in first and her middle child will not start kinder until mine is in second grade....not that mine get A's and hers get C's. Just that the kids don't have any interaction beyond the bus stop.

You are all right that I did say "that" dog - another family brings their dog to the bus stop (I wish they wouldn't and I again I would NEVER bring mine) but we have known the other dog for years and my children do pet it when it was there.

BJ
Barney & Ben









don't mind me


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## WNB (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys*
...
What do you ladies think. Should I go to her house and try to create some peace before our kids get off the bus? Should I have not said anything until I had my kids alone? I am really second guessing myself and terribly upset.

Advice?
BJ
Barney & Ben

I vote yes, just because you will be seeing her so often, and she's your neighbor. Can't hurt to have friendly acquaintances, and it really doesn't matter who was "right" or "wrong".

If I were in your position, I'd talk to her and emphasize how right she was about how any dog can snap -- and that your asking your kids to keep to themselves was not specific to her dog. You're just trying to teach your kids good sense around other people's dogs in general.

I own two dogs, and I'd never bring them to a place where they could be overwhelmed by the attention of so many kids -- but I wouldn't bring that up with her (unless you turned it around and said that that is what happens to YOUR dog in such situations, hence your caution).


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

WOW! That woman needs to get more sleep. Or something.

You were MUCH nicer in you "Oh grow up" comment. I am sure I would have had a few politically incorrect comments to spew at her.

I would rather stand naked in a mall than to "make peace" with a woman like that. It sounds like you have NOTHING in common with this person. I have a feeling that the worst thing would be to have her as a friend.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

All I have to say is that you handled the situation great. I think it is beneficial for children to see their parents stand up for themselves.


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

Momma, you did the right thing. I would ignore this woman as much as possible, she doesn't sound like she's playing with a full deck. Don't make nice, just stay away from her.

--------------------------------

"Why these people want bully breeds is beyond me, talk about setting the dog up for failure."

- Because the bad dog owners are often "bullies" themselves, like this woman was.

I am an animal FREAK. We two cats, seven finches, and three fighting fish in an apartment. I grew up with powerful dogs, rotti/shepard mix, and a St. Bernard. I plan on having lots more in my life.

BUT: If I had a CHOICE as to WHAT BREED of enraged dog to have running after me down the street? Pittbulls are last on the list for obvious reasons!

They are SO powerful pound-for-pound, they are a site to behold. Their grip is often unshakable, and they have been bred by man to NOT STOP and to fight to the death when angered.

That is the difference between this unfortunate breed (unfortunate because I don't blame the dogs, I blame the people who bred them that way and the 90% of people who own them who don't give a damn about anything other than looking and acting tough) and other dogs, even big dogs.

As a rule, I wouldn't want my children to pet strange dogs, and there is no way I would ever leave my kids around a pitbull or chose to be around one myself for a long period of time. The OP said this woman had only even had the dog for a few days. Smart.

They are banned here in Ontario, they have to be leashed and muzzled while out of the house, and they must be sterilzed, no more selling pittie puppies.
The fears I have about that are a) the irresponsible dog owners won't care about the law. and b) they irresponsible dog breeders will just ruin another breed, like Rottweillers.


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## mika85 (Aug 9, 2006)

That lady is nuts. Sorry, but I feel bad for her kids, and especially her unborn one. I think you handled the sitch very well, mama, better than I would have!







You were just protecting your kids, something she's definately not used to doing, especially since she chooses to smoke while PG.

Since I had a baby, to me, all animals are at the very bottom of the totem pole.







: Altho I do believe animals have rights of course, I just don't F with them now that I have a DD to care for. My DP's grandmother has a collie and a chocolate lab (both are HUGE) and she gets offended because I don't let them anywhere near my 2 month old. Even tho they're both gentle, sorry I don't trust them, and at best I don't want nasty doggie drool all over my baby.


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## GalateaDunkel (Jul 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyV*
I do wonder how many of the dogs are actually pit bulls or rotties or whatever.

There is a "find the pit bull" page I used to post, and most people would get it wrong.

I googled the "find the pit bull" page, and I think the point apparently being made is totally fallacious. Many of the breeds on that page are related to each other, the breed status of some is disputed, and it includes other breeds that have also been implicated in fatal incidents. For example the dogs that killed a few years back in San Francisco were Presa Canarios. One thing many owners don't understand is how little it helps their cause when they put the burden of proof on others to justify their own safety level. And the whole "well you don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the different breeds therefore you don't get to have an opinion" thing is particularly obnoxious. God forbid anyone ever gets killed by a dog because they saw that page and came away with the lesson, "well since I don't *know* that that dog is precisely a 'pit bull,' I don't want to look ignorant or rude to the owner by acting too cautious around it." I am strongly in favor of humane treatment of animals, but dogs are not people and breeds are not races - there is no obligation to be "fair" or give the benefit of the doubt in deciding one's attitude toward strange dogs.


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## pfamilygal (Feb 28, 2005)

I think you were well within your rights. Your kids are your concern. I won't let my kids go near any dog. Even if Lassie or Benji was at the bus stop, still no petting. And I'd call animal control to find out if it is even acceptable to bring a dog like that out to be in close proximity to children. It could be considered threatening.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

several weeks ago there was a news story about a pomeranian killing an infant.
They said it was the 25th such incident this year. I didn't catch if it was for the state or for the us as a whole.
Of course you don't think of the little furballs with teeth as a killer like pitbulls but....


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel*
I googled the "find the pit bull" page, and I think the point apparently being made is totally fallacious. Many of the breeds on that page are related to each other, the breed status of some is disputed, and it includes other breeds that have also been implicated in fatal incidents. For example the dogs that killed a few years back in San Francisco were Presa Canarios. One thing many owners don't understand is how little it helps their cause when they put the burden of proof on others to justify their own safety level. And the whole "well you don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the different breeds therefore you don't get to have an opinion" thing is particularly obnoxious. God forbid anyone ever gets killed by a dog because they saw that page and came away with the lesson, "well since I don't *know* that that dog is precisely a 'pit bull,' I don't want to look ignorant or rude to the owner by acting too cautious around it." I am strongly in favor of humane treatment of animals, but dogs are not people and breeds are not races - there is no obligation to be "fair" or give the benefit of the doubt in deciding one's attitude toward strange dogs.

I'm confused here.

nak

My point is that all dogs are potentially dangeros. Breed doesnt matter. Children should be taught that, as well as not approaching strange dogs.


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pfamilygal*
And I'd call animal control to find out if it is even acceptable to bring a dog like that out to be in close proximity to children. It could be considered threatening.

I'm not sure i get what you mean?


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

pfamilygal means checking to see if you can actually take the dog out. In some areas just having the dog can be construed as 'threatening"
other areas they are banned completely. So she is suggesting asking animal control because the woman could lose the dog if either is the case.
In some areas certain breeds near a crowd if someone says they feel 'threatened' no matter their training an incident report will be opened up.
Even if they have good training like one of Shannon's dogs they have to investigate.


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## rowansmomma (Feb 25, 2005)

It is people like that woman that are the problem with this breed. We have a pit cross puppy, an english mastiff and a pekingese. All of them love children...but not for a MINUTE will any one of them be alone with a child. DUH, they are dogs........any dog has the potential to bite and a GOOD dog owner is aware of that.

This woman is stupid for taking her dog (that she doesn't even know the temperament of) to a bus stop full of kids. THAT alone is a major problem I'd have.

A pp mentioned a ban on breeding in Ontario......That is not only to protect people, but to protect the dog. The sick sick things they do to those dogs when they are fighters.......wow. Its just insane. As a matter of fact, my puppy came from a mother dog who used to fight.....and was rescued. She was a lucky one apparently because they usually kill them if they lose. Grrr.......


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## alisonsvw (Jan 30, 2006)

sorry she yelled at you. i own a big beautiful pitbull girl, and part of being a responsible dog owner is thinking about other people. while its great to get your dog out for a walk, places where other people are, in your case a bus stop... isnt the best place to be (with any dog) There are people deathly afraid of dogs..I generally keep my dog to myself and my circle of people she knows..She is sometimes skittish of new people, I have yelled at a mother once myself.. to tell her to NOT let her kids run up to my dog..she might jump or bark and scare them and try as i might, she is a powerful dog, if she jumped she might knock an unsuspecting child over (this has yet to happen) But i try to prevent things like that happening. clearly your neighbor wasnt thinking about respecting others. I never bring my pit to the playground,bus stop etc....if i want to take her around people, we go to the dog park where people who like dogs are !


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CerridwenLorelei*
pfamilygal means checking to see if you can actually take the dog out. In some areas just having the dog can be construed as 'threatening"
other areas they are banned completely. So she is suggesting asking animal control because the woman could lose the dog if either is the case.
In some areas certain breeds near a crowd if someone says they feel 'threatened' no matter their training an incident report will be opened up.
Even if they have good training like one of Shannon's dogs they have to investigate.

Thanks!


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## Em T (Mar 14, 2006)

I think the point with pit bulls is their incredible strength. There was a case here where a pit bull attacked a family member. When the police arrived it had bitten the arm off at the shoulder of the twenty-eight year old daughter who lived at home. Not a small child, not anyone teasing it. The other relatives were horrified & surpriised. Police had to shoot the dog so EMT peronnel could rush the woman to the hospital. The dog was described as a pet, perfectly friendly, & so on. What sticks with me is yes, a chihuahua can bite you & break the skin, like all breeds. Pit bulls can kill other animals or people because they're so powerful. It is scary to be around them, so no, I don't think you were rude.


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## bright (Mar 10, 2005)

Wow, so many misconceptions about pit bulls on this thread. Pit bulls were originally bred to fight other dogs and larger animals, like bears.

Aggression toward people was specifically bred OUT of pit bull lines. Part of the fighting ritual included that the other dog's owner would bathe the pit bull to ensure there were no noxious substances on its coat. A human referee was present in the pit, and would handle the dogs physically (de-fanging dogs, for instance) during fights.

Dogs who were in the midst of an attack, and often severely wounded, would need to be able to direct their aggression ONLY toward the other dog, not the humans. If a dog couldn't not do this, it was not desirable, was often put to sleep, and was not bred.

So, aggression toward humans from pit bulls is extremely rare, and highly unnatural. I have owned two pit bulls, and both were/are excellent family dogs, dogs I would trust with my children. They have a high pain threshold, meaning that they tolerate being poked and grabbed well, and they have a highly playful nature. Even my ten year old pit bull is very good with my toddler.

It is true that they are extremely strong physically, and an attack from a pit bull is a dangerous one. However, attacks are very much over-reported in the media, attacks by pit bulls are more likely to be picked up than attacks by other breeds, and dogs of other breeds are likely to be mis-named as pit bulls. It is good for ratings.

As with any strong dog, any dog at all really, they require responsible handling by their owners. I also think it is an excellent idea for everyone to have dog knowledge, and to teach our children how to deal with dogs.

The idea that a pit bull has no place at a children's bus stop saddens me. They are highly intelligent, loving, sensitive pets, and my life and my children's lives have been much enriched by our experiences with this breed.


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## ComfyCozy (Dec 7, 2005)

BJ, I admire how you handled that situation. You weren't nasty about it either, and hopefully she went home and gave it some thought privately.


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## Jposey (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bauchtanz*
I guess I am in the minority here that I think your comments did come off as rude. I would have said something like: Now kids, we don't pet unfamiliar dogs, do we? (which should be a standard rule, not "not petting THAT" dog, which I think is what she took it as)

Any dog can attack at any time and a parent that belives one breed is more dangerous than another is in for a shock when thier beloved golden retreiver bites someone (my husband was attacked by one of those "gentle, never does any harm" golden retrivers). A friend of mine's daughter has been bit TWICE by "family" dogs.

Well, it is done now, over with, so what are you going to do about it now? Those pesky bus stops are just as political as the PTA. I would nix the small talk and just chalk it up to the two of you don't get along, and move on with life.
That's just my 2cents.

I totally agree with this!

We owned a "pit bull" once (she died as a puppy though). She was about 8 weeks old and we had her in PetSmart and a child was playing with her (keep in mind she was still TINY). The mom was smiling, the kid and our puppy were obviously having a good time and she asked us what kind of dog she was. We told her it was an American Staffordshire Terrier, she asked "A what?" So we replied " a pit bull" . The lady jerked her kid away so fast, and told her other one to "stay away from that dog". "bully' breeds have such a bad rep. As so many people have said, ANY dog can hurt a child. Our puppy couldn't have hurt a fly. It barely had any teeth!

I know pit bulls as my family raised the AKC registered version (champions at that) for years. We will probably never own another though because of the sterotypes surrounding them. DMX and other rappers and common trailer trash have really ruined the breed. We took pride in educating people on the misconceptions surrounding the breed. With all the backyard breeders and the skanks making a quick buck at the dogs' expense, it seems like trying to preserve the breed is a fruitless effort now.

Our dog now is a mastiff mix, she looks very much like a fila brasiliero. Every time we take her out though, some ignorant ******* says "Man that's a great looking pit" There have been times where other dogs have snapped at her, or jumped on her, and she is always labeled the instigator. Even though she is usually very playful (except when she's being snapped at or attacked!) we just try to keep her away from other dogs now. We took her to an ice cream stand one day while I was pregnant. As we were walking to our seats, a family's labrador jumped OUT of THEIR CAR, (where it was sitting with their young children children) and attacked me and our dog. All I could do was tug Macy by her leash and wait for someone to try and pull their "sweet family dog" off of her. I highly doubt anyone would have believed our "pit" (who's not a pit at all) was the innocent one. Luckily there were plenty of witnesses and Macy was leashed, otherwise she could have been banned from there.

Sorry for getting sidetracked! I do think you were right in wanting to keep your children safe. The woman sounds like an idiot anyway so I'd just avoid them.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CerridwenLorelei*
pfamilygal means checking to see if you can actually take the dog out. In some areas just having the dog can be construed as 'threatening"
other areas they are banned completely. So she is suggesting asking animal control because the woman could lose the dog if either is the case.
In some areas certain breeds near a crowd if someone says they feel 'threatened' no matter their training an incident report will be opened up.
Even if they have good training like one of Shannon's dogs they have to investigate.

The schools around here have NO DOGS signs, so it's possible that it is also unexceptable/against local ordinances to take dogs to school bus stops.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

In your post you mention previous aggression by this mother and her children. So naturally your radar went up when she brought the dog out. Whatever the breed I imagine aggressive dogs might appeal to a family with a history of aggressive behavior. (She may have even wanted a pitbull because she thinks they are all aggressive even if that is not accurate!) Your gut said something isn't right. Listen to it.

Apologize if your gut feels it's right, don't if it feels wrong, but I don't have a problem with anything you did.


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## bczmama (Jan 30, 2006)

think a lot of people have made a good point that the issue is not the tempermant of the dog in question, but rather the extreme ability of the pitbull breed to do harm. Every dog is (or has the potential to be) a weapon -- the question is whether the weapon is the equivalent of a pea-shooter (like a tea-cup chihuahua) or a nuclear missle (like a pitbull).

I will admit that I wanted a larger, more challenging dog (german shepherd) -- but we ended up get more of a lap-sized dog with a reputation for an easy temperment for a number of reasons: (a) we are not experienced dog-owners and do not have the background to handle a challenging breed, (b) we wanted kids and had jobs, and knew that we would not have, quite frankly, long hours to spend to correct the behavior of a challenging dog, (c) we have worked hard for what we have, and the thought of being sued if our dog hurt someone was not attractive, and by the breed we selected we felt we limited the potential harm that our dog could do, (d) I am not tremendously strong, and I like having a dog that I feel that I can exert some level of physical control over and (e) hopefully limiting the harm our dog could do to someone else.

I will admit, when I look at someone with a pitbull, I always ask myself why? Its like when you talk to people who feel that the government is impinging on their lives by not allowing them to purchase Uzi's or AK-47s. My feeling is why is it necessary?

I am surprised no once has referenced or linked in the excellent reporting in the Chicago Tribune recently with regards to pitbulls -- here it is:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...hi-photo-front


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## bczmama (Jan 30, 2006)

Though I do think of this as being a trend of people buying "more dog than they need" like my neighbors with the small backyard and 2 full-time jobs and a border collie. That dog is dying for a job, somewhere to go, something to do and they can't understand why they're starting to have behavior problems with it.


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## northcountrymamma (Feb 24, 2006)

Much of what I was thinking has already been stated, but I think you handled the situation fabulously and feel bad for you that you have to deal with this woman on a regular basis from here on out.

IMO I really think a bus stop is an inappropriate place for ALL dogs, and certain dogs have a bad reputation for a good reason. It's not the dogs fault, but some owners don't understand how to handle the *inherent nature of a dog*, they will use their mouths to protect themselves if any threat is detected. I personally had a wonderful dog who was quite cuddly, had a hyper streak, but would IMO at the time never have hurt a fly. Well not only did she prove me wrong by biting a four year old in my family on the face right in front of me. She had to be put down. I trusted that my dog wasn't going to hurt anyone and I was shown that the trust that we have in our dogs is sometimes too high. I know this is a bit of a rant, but I would never...never ...never let my dd pet a dog that we don't know, or trust, or even have the slightest uncertainty about. She knows this. We have two dogs of our own who we never leave with our dd unattended for the reason that dogs are animals that use their mouths for protection under threatening circumstance. (i know I said this already)

My point here is that you did the right thing in my opinon and the bitchy lady with the dog made a scene not you.


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## WNB (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtwice*
...

Apologize if your gut feels it's right, don't if it feels wrong, but I don't have a problem with anything you did.

"Making nice" doesn't necessarily mean apologizing -- I don't think OP has anything to apologize for (with possible exception of the 'oh, grow up' comment, but that is pretty trivial). Explaining why she cautioned her kids in a way that does not single out the breed (b/c it should not be a breed-specific caution, imo) could reduce the tension in a non-confrontational way.

For heaven's sake, this is two neighbors meeting at a bus stop with their kids. Are we really such an adversarial society that there is a "right" and "wrong" in this type of encounter? Who cares whether the neighbor was out of line - the goal is a) to prevent any injuries now and in the future, and b) to be a part of a close-knit, loving community that extends beyond just the four walls of your home.


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## RainCoastMama (Oct 13, 2004)

Good for you for saying what you did. You're not on the planet to make noxious people feel nice, you're here to protect your children regardless if the risk seems absolutely minimal. No one else will. I don't think anything you said was out of line. In a vacuum where you can rewind and dissect your words, sure they may seem harsh after the fact, but you did what you did in the heat of the moment - I would have been even harsher.

FWIW, I personally don't care how *nice* and gentle a dog owner claims her/his dog is (rabidly anthropomorphizing in the process). So is every other dog that ultimately ends up going ape**** and taking chunks out of people. Dog owners always look so surprised when Fluffy attacks. Well...duh. They're dogs. Let's cut through the emotions and call it like it is. Drives me BANANAS when people let them go off leash in public places like beaches. STOP thinking your dog has the reasoning skills of an adult human. They DON'T. They're INSTINCTUAL. They're hierarchial PACK animals.

I'm a dog person, and we owned huge dogs in my homecountry for security - dobermen, shepherds, etc. Gentle as lambs to us, but more than once had gutted cats end up on our lawns or bitten robbers. We bought these breeds with purpose - they're way better for security purposes than a chihuahua. Anyone wandering around with a pit or a rottie who tries to convince you that they're no different than any other dog is selectively blind or really defensive. Ontario was absoutely correct in doing what it did. There have been so many maulings here in my province that I'm disgusted that other fighting breeds weren't banned. Sure, a gun is only as dangerous as the owner but hey...Canada made carrying weapons illegal because there are too many buttheads that don't know how to handle them.

So given the history of the breed, you were absolutely correct in doing what you did.


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## northcountrymamma (Feb 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RainCoastMama*
. STOP thinking your dog has the reasoning skills of an adult human. They DON'T. They're INSTINCTUAL. They're hierarchial PACK animals.









:

you said it better than I...


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## mamadawg (Jun 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WNB*
For heaven's sake, this is two neighbors meeting at a bus stop with their kids. Are we really such an adversarial society that there is a "right" and "wrong" in this type of encounter? Who cares whether the neighbor was out of line - the goal is a) to prevent any injuries now and in the future, and b) to be a part of a close-knit, loving community that extends beyond just the four walls of your home.

I really, really appreciate that point. Thanks.


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

Well....thought you would all be interested in a follow-up. On the bus her son told my son that he was going to teach his dog to bite black people







She also has had the dog in the front yard off of the leash (with no fence) when we go to the bus stop the last few times.

Given her sons verbal "threat", I did give Animal Control a call and spoke to a very nice owner of a pit bull who provided me with much information about the breed. She indicated that they are not fully mature until about 16 months so it is difficult to predict their future behavior based on past behavior until they are more mature and reveal their adult personality. She also indicated that for pit bulls (and several other breeds) bites are often triggered by motion than aggression...they tend to grab things that are moving at their eye level to stop them and that is why they often have such a difficult time with groups of children (who are likely to be running around at their eye level) Like many other dogs they might grab at a child with their teeth, but their sheer strength makes the encounter more dangerous for the child (and usually fatal for the dog who ends up being put down) She emphasized that owners of stronger breeds of dogs need to know what situations are good for their individual pets and she doubts that the bus stop is the right place for any large dog. I didn't provide her with any information on this owner or dog since it hasn't actually done anything wrong.

I think I am simply going to move bus stops....the dog is still pretty small so I will wait a few weeks because I don't want to create a neighborhood war or anything, but I do think that she bought the dog to be threatening and it worked...I am afraid of this dog in HER hands. This bus stop is 5 houses in one direction and the other is only 8....it doesn't seem far to walk to avoid this hostility and given the fact that I am pregnant and have a three year old and a six year it seems the extra bit of walking is a small price to pay for avoiding this stress.

I have decided not to try to smooth it over, but to be polite and whatnot on the bus stop. I realize she thinks it was rude of me to say something and I guess I think it was rude to bring a large untrained dog to the bus stop. I agree to disagree, ykwim?

Anyway, thanks for all of the thoughts everyone. It is important to be careful with our dogs and our children and everyone has provided some really nice different perspectives on this issue.

BJ
Barney & Ben


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Yuck. Sounds like the dog and the kid are being raised in a very unhealthy environment there.









I don't blame you at all for being worried about the dog. All talk of "breedism" aside, what really matters is the mentality and abilities of the person training the dog (or not training it but taking it out all over the neighborhood anyhow.) If she's actually planning to encourage the dog to be aggressive, yikes.


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## TudoBem (Aug 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys*
She also has had the dog in the front yard off of the leash (with no fence) when we go to the bus stop the last few times.


I believe in most places this is against the law. You can call animal control to report this.
From my experiences with my undesirable neighbors, animal control has advised me to call them as often as possible to create a log of documentation. Therefore should anything serious happen there is a whole series of documentation on the irresponsibility of the owner and problems with the dog.
Also, you can call anonymously if you prefer. In our particular case we have found it better to be up front that we are watching our neighbors and not tolerating misbehavior.


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## wende (Oct 4, 2003)

I'm glad you've made the decision to switch bus stops. I know first hand how quickly a normally docile dog can react. I've been bitten on numerous occasions. Only once was it my fault. I was bitten by a pit bull when I tried to pet her puppies (the owner said it was ok but obviously mom didn't agree). I was bitten by a neighborhood dog because I was walking down the street. I was with a group of friends and none of us were antaganizing the dog but it came after us. I froze as my friends ran and it bit me. I was bitten by an Australian Shephard once when I was 10. I was standing in the middle of a large group of people right before 4th of July and they were letting off fireworks. The dog got spooked and jumped the fence and decided that I must be the one to blame and bit me. 20 years later I still have a very noticable bitemark/scar on my abdomen. I've watched a pitbull do unspeakable things to a kitten who crossed it's path. My best friend growing up was bit in the face by a german shephard who she was "friends" with. My moms old chow chow nipped my then infant daughter in the face for crying. I have had nightmares about being attacked by dogs. I know that the dogs aren't to blame in most of these situations. They are doing what comes natural to them, but I am just now overcoming my fear of largeish dogs. I will probably never overcome my fear of pitbulls simply because they are more naturally unpredictable in their behavior than some other breeds. I wouldn't allow my kids near them either, especially one who has not been well socialized to strangers and children, who are also unpredictable.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

that woman needs to be reported somehow. I just don't know how you can without it being obvious yk?

SHE is what makes it bad for responsible pit and other dog owners. And making it KNOWN that are intending to train it to bite/attack a certain race??
















It seems like being out in an unfenced yard would violate a leash law.....

Maybe the dog will get lucky and the dogcatcher/spca will see it unleashed/unfenced and pick it up before this woman can do it and the human race horrible harm...

UGH UGH UGH.....


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

oops double post


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## rowansmomma (Feb 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys*
Well....thought you would all be interested in a follow-up. On the bus her son told my son that he was going to teach his dog to bite black people







She also has had the dog in the front yard off of the leash (with no fence) when we go to the bus stop the last few times.

Given her sons verbal "threat", I did give Animal Control a call and spoke to a very nice owner of a pit bull who provided me with much information about the breed. She indicated that they are not fully mature until about 16 months so it is difficult to predict their future behavior based on past behavior until they are more mature and reveal their adult personality. She also indicated that for pit bulls (and several other breeds) bites are often triggered by motion than aggression...they tend to grab things that are moving at their eye level to stop them and that is why they often have such a difficult time with groups of children (who are likely to be running around at their eye level) Like many other dogs they might grab at a child with their teeth, but their sheer strength makes the encounter more dangerous for the child (and usually fatal for the dog who ends up being put down) She emphasized that owners of stronger breeds of dogs need to know what situations are good for their individual pets and she doubts that the bus stop is the right place for any large dog. I didn't provide her with any information on this owner or dog since it hasn't actually done anything wrong.

I think I am simply going to move bus stops....the dog is still pretty small so I will wait a few weeks because I don't want to create a neighborhood war or anything, but I do think that she bought the dog to be threatening and it worked...I am afraid of this dog in HER hands. This bus stop is 5 houses in one direction and the other is only 8....it doesn't seem far to walk to avoid this hostility and given the fact that I am pregnant and have a three year old and a six year it seems the extra bit of walking is a small price to pay for avoiding this stress.

I have decided not to try to smooth it over, but to be polite and whatnot on the bus stop. I realize she thinks it was rude of me to say something and I guess I think it was rude to bring a large untrained dog to the bus stop. I agree to disagree, ykwim?

Anyway, thanks for all of the thoughts everyone. It is important to be careful with our dogs and our children and everyone has provided some really nice different perspectives on this issue.

BJ
Barney & Ben























:





















And a whole other range of profane smilies. I just am shocked first that her son said that.....and secondly that well......okay, the whole situation.

She is clearly an ignorant ignorant woman and so obviously TRASH!!! I'm glad you are moving bus stops.......she seems like the type to harass you to a breaking point. Grrrr.....this makes me mad!


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## rowansmomma (Feb 25, 2005)

I'd like to supply an interesting link too, if I may.

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/


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## RainCoastMama (Oct 13, 2004)

From Rowansmomma's link:

Breeds Involved (in fatal attacks)

*Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%),* Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%), German Shepherd Dogs (9%), Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%), Malamutes (4%), Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%), Chow Chows (3%), Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).

Hmm. Pit Bulls are almost double that of rotties, and 5% points HIGHER than the next type of animal. Stats don't lie. You were absolutely correct in doing what you did.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

" Stats don't lie"

From statistics class several times that they can be manipulated ....

too bad they left out the pom attacks..


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## hawkfeather (Jan 18, 2005)

i wouldn't have let my kids pet a pit bull i do not know.. and I would not have *avoided* my need to tell them this to spare some rude ladies feelings..

Could you call the school and discuss this?
sorry i see there are tons of responses that i didn't not read..maybe i am repeating!


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## hawkfeather (Jan 18, 2005)

if it were me i would also be calling animal control- to touch base with what her son said.. and the fact that this is an unleashed animal in the yard.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

this woman is dangerous and will take this dog and make it a deadly weapon.
do you live where there are animal police? with full power like detroit has ? or arizona?

can you call anon or some other neighbor call anon to have animal control drive by?


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## janellesmommy (Jun 6, 2004)

Too bad that scary woman is mad at you, but of course you had to protect your kids.

Are your kids black? If they are, that boy's comment should be taken as a death threat, and the police, not animal control, should be involved.

*HUGS* So sorry you are going through this.


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## rowansmomma (Feb 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RainCoastMama*
From Rowansmomma's link:

Breeds Involved (in fatal attacks)

*Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%),* Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%), German Shepherd Dogs (9%), Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%), Malamutes (4%), Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%), Chow Chows (3%), Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).

Hmm. Pit Bulls are almost double that of rotties, and 5% points HIGHER than the next type of animal. Stats don't lie. You were absolutely correct in doing what you did.

But did you also read that they took into account the numbers of pits that are kept as pets? Pits are more popular than many of these other breeds that had lower percentages of "attacks". You must read the entire article.

Again, I'll say that I dont think any dog should be at the bus stop........and I wouldn't discriminate. Pit or poodle..........and btw, poodles are more likely to bite than pits.







I know this from being a vet tech for 8 years.


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## rowansmomma (Feb 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *janellesmommy*
Too bad that scary woman is mad at you, but of course you had to protect your kids.

Are your kids black? If they are, that boy's comment should be taken as a death threat, and the police, not animal control, should be involved.

*HUGS* So sorry you are going through this.









:


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

My kids aren't black, but many of our neighbors are so the comment seems very threatening to me. The family lives on the same block as a middle school with a very diverse population - there are many african american and other children of color who will need to walk past the house each day.

I found out from Animal Control that it is legal to have a dog off of the leash without a fence on your own property in my county --- this is true regardless of breed. I am not calling animal control because the dog hasn't actually DONE anything wrong.

As for the differences in breeds...I have given this sooo much thought over the past week. Rowansmommy mentioned that from her perspective working with dogs, poodles are more likely to bite than pit bulls...I guess the question is whether it matters as much if a poodle bites you??? Maybe the issue with pit bulls and other strong breeds is that they might be equally as likely to bite as a cocker spaniel or some other small high strung dog, but that they do so much more damage. All of the dogs mentioned in that article on fatalities were large...though some of the MOST popular large breeds (retrievers, labs, setters, etc) didn't make the list because my guess is that they actually are LESS LIKELY to bite. Not that I am saying they won't ever bite in any situation, but there is a chance that some breeds have "earned" their reputations.

Anyway, I will continue to not take my golden retriever to the bus stop and I agree with many of you that I really don't think it is a good place for any dog, but truthfully I wouldn't be afraid to see a poodle or other small dog there







: I don't want my kids to get bite or end-up with stitches, but I don't think those dogs have the ability to kill or SEVERLY injure my children like this woman's dog does.

Thanks for all of the feedback --- I have never started a thread on MDC that so many people were interested in









BJ
Barney & Ben


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## Mimistar34 (Jul 24, 2005)

Ditto RubyV, it's up to you whether you want your kids petting ANY dog, let alone a Pit.

I do think I would explain it to her later.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

were the standard ? When I worked at the groomers I had one female that should have been muzzled when we worked on her.
I always tried to get the other bather to take her because she ALWAYS tried to bite and she had pretty big jaws and I was sure one day would be it in the arm department.


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## rowansmomma (Feb 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys*
My kids aren't black, but many of our neighbors are so the comment seems very threatening to me. The family lives on the same block as a middle school with a very diverse population - there are many african american and other children of color who will need to walk past the house each day.

I found out from Animal Control that it is legal to have a dog off of the leash without a fence on your own property in my county --- this is true regardless of breed. I am not calling animal control because the dog hasn't actually DONE anything wrong.

As for the differences in breeds...I have given this sooo much thought over the past week. Rowansmommy mentioned that from her perspective working with dogs, poodles are more likely to bite than pit bulls...I guess the question is whether it matters as much if a poodle bites you??? Maybe the issue with pit bulls and other strong breeds is that they might be equally as likely to bite as a cocker spaniel or some other small high strung dog, but that they do so much more damage. All of the dogs mentioned in that article on fatalities were large...though some of the MOST popular large breeds (retrievers, labs, setters, etc) didn't make the list because my guess is that they actually are LESS LIKELY to bite. Not that I am saying they won't ever bite in any situation, but there is a chance that some breeds have "earned" their reputations.

Anyway, I will continue to not take my golden retriever to the bus stop and I agree with many of you that I really don't think it is a good place for any dog, but truthfully I wouldn't be afraid to see a poodle or other small dog there







: I don't want my kids to get bite or end-up with stitches, but I don't think those dogs have the ability to kill or SEVERLY injure my children like this woman's dog does.

Thanks for all of the feedback --- I have never started a thread on MDC that so many people were interested in









BJ
Barney & Ben

Well, you are absolutely right that size matters!! Heck yeah, if you get bit by a chihuahua, its not going to be a major catastrophe.....but if a big dog bites you, you could end up in a serious situation. And of course the strength of the dog is taken into consideration too. My point was that usually smaller breeds are more likely to bite, however when a large breed bites they are more likely to do serious damage.

Regardless of all of this information, questionable dogs do not belong at a bus stop with children. I dont care how friendly the neighbor's lab is. He is still a dog. Sure, my peke would be easily controlled if she got fussy but a big dog isn't.

I think better safe than sorry in this situation. I'd have handled it the same way I'm sure.


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## ThreeJane (Mar 8, 2003)

Sorta off-topic, but my really good buddy has an American Bulldog, which is squattier and heavier than your standard pit bull.

Anyway, I was visiting him in April with my 3 year old and one year old. Moira (the dog) kept barking at the baby every time she was on the floor, so I made sure she wasn't near the dog when I put her down. She didn't make any rushes at the baby, but the barking (accompanied by a puzzled look) made me very, very nervous.

My buddy got really offended, "I don't think she'll bite the baby!" and other comments. I finally hauled off and told him, "Dude, I don't CARE if I'm hurting your feelings, she's a bulldog and if she bites Sarah, it'll be the LAST thing she does!" He got really huffy but made no more comments.

He apparently thought that I was being "paranoid" about his dog "maybe" biting my daughter. I wasn't about to take the chance of a 40 pound bulldog up against an 18 pound baby.

This is a dog that when she makes a mistake and you swat her, she completely ignores it. He's even admitted that when she gets into something she shouldn't (say, trash or a sock she's chewing on), he has slapped her hard enough to make his hand sting for a half hour and she completely ignores him.

He's resorted to twisting her lip to get her attention.







: So even he knew that if Moira decided to take a chunk out of Sarah, we'd have to club her over the head with a tire iron to get her to let go.







:

So I think you did the right thing. I've had dogs all my life and they are unpredictable. Even Labs, which I own now. They're dogs, they're not people, and you have to get over yourself if people are worried they might hurt their kids...because they might!


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

dunno about you but I'd be attacked by a pom any day. it's one thing to be bitten. it's another to have your body ripped apart. I had a pit bull.

Great dog. Friendly, smart as a whip, easy to train. She'd hang out with everyone in our group of teens to mid 20s and never, ever exhibited the slightest sign of aggression to any of us, or other dogs, even Chihuahuas.

Until you'd have her in the car at the gas station, and an elderly person or small child would walk by. Then she'd begin this low growl, never taking her eyes off them. Or a man in uniform- she'd flip out. Never did she have any negative experiences with any of the types of humans she found threatening. It was just in her nature.

My mom had a little bichon that could be pretty nasty when he had a bone or toy he liked. I'd rather have tried grabbing him in a bad mood before I'd pet a pit bull I didn't know. A dog on a leash feels cornered. If they are used to kids and known to be good with them, the risk is minimal. But it's still there. The vast majority of dog bites to a child are on the face. Don't know about others but my pit bull could hold her own weight by her jaw, it'd take two people standing at the end of a pole and you'd lift it off the ground, she'd be dangling there by the mouth, never letting go. She must've weighed 130, easy. Do the math. I don't want that jaw, on an unpredictable animal, on my kid. I adore balanced, trained pit bulls. Still don't trust them around kids- the risk is too high, much higher than other breeds that they will bite and much higher that the bite will be a life-threatening one.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

the poms didn't only attack they killed the infants.
I wouldn't want any dog pit, lab, boxer, poodle (standard or small), dane, collie, sheltie etc being where it shouldn't when it shouldn't like the pit in the op.
but the pit in the op is just going to end up one of those that continues to perpetuate the breed stereotype because no one is going to understand that its the owner.
a people aggressive pit is NOT NORMAL. they are dog aggressive yes. A people aggressive pit is not.
If rose ever became people aggressive for some freak reason we know that means she needs to be put down immediately.
This woman at the bus stop is going to DELIBERATELY make that pit people aggressive.
and its potentially preventable. And what could have been a good pet for someone is going to in the end just have to be destroyed.

and the OP and her neighbors are going to have worry about being safe in the neighborhood from this woman and her dog when they shouldn't have to.

And I am just wasting my breath so I will just get off the


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