# Epiphany on my sleep situation/ Mixed Results Update Post 26



## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

I own four books about infant sleep. None of them have helped. None of them talk about the child who fights sleep _i__n her sleep_. Or the child who has white noise, music, a lovey, a parent ready to 'love her down to sleep' and still won't sleep. They don't talk about the child who doesn't sleep well in her bed nor in her parents' bed.

In short, they are not talking about my child.

I was reading the toddler board today. A mother of a two-year-old has the same problem I'm having. But she's been doing it longer and now wants to skip all naps in the hopes that her child will sleep at night.

This is my future. Entertaining my daughter all. day. long. in the desperate hope that she will sleep at night when it counts the most. _Tsk, tsk_ reproach the experts. Sleep begets sleep, cut out naps and night sleep will get worse. Except there are several mothers over there who have eliminated naps and can now say their child finally sleeps through the night.

Something is wrong with the experts.

I have been on a quest these last few months to help my child sleep. I have been reading and re-reading everything the experts say trying to make my daughter fit into their box. Trying to figure out how she works and learn what she needs.

But today, watching her writhe and scream in her sleep as I rocked her ever so gently, I realized she is her own paradigm, well beyond the box.

Being a new parent is being dumped in a foreign country where you don't know the language or the rules. You think the books have the answers. You think your pediatrician actually knows something beyond whether or not your child has an ear infection. You believe what people tell you and when your child doesn't conform to what they say your child should be, you think there's something wrong with you, that you're just not parenting the right way because parents who do it right, have good children, children who sleep.

I have spent these last few months rocking my daughter faster, then slower, swaddling, not swaddling, putting her in her bed, putting her in our bed, feeding, not feeding, strict bedtime, casual bedtime; cycling through all the tips over and over like a hamster on a wheel, waiting for something to stick.

Nothing has ever stuck.

I know what all the experts think, but I don't know my own daughter. I don't understand her, I've been too busy trying to understand everyone else. I need new and different skills. New and different ideas. I need to find parents and experts who've met children like my daughter. I need to stop trying to cram her into a box that doesn't fit and let her show me the box that does.


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

I have an almost 14 month old CRAP sleeper too so you'll get no advice from me...however, very poor night sleep - especially with the screaming - can be caused by a food intollerance (my DD has intollerances too so I know all about this phenomenon). Have you explored this possibility at all?


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## bstandlee (May 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaMary* 
I have an almost 14 month old CRAP sleeper too so you'll get no advice from me...however, very poor night sleep - especially with the screaming - can be caused by a food intollerance (my DD has intollerances too so I know all about this phenomenon). Have you explored this possibility at all?









:
Our 14 mo has food intolerances and is a crappy sleeper too, in our bed or in his. I don't think all of it is the food issues though. He stays up happily most nights until 10:00-11:00 (screams and fights for hours if we force it earlier) and can get by on as little as one 45 minute nap, although he's ready for bed by 8:00 on those days. There is _no_ correlation between more/better daytime sleep and better nighttime sleep in our house. I gave up on the "expert" sleep books long ago. My child does NOT fit in their boxes!


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## Mere (Oct 1, 2002)

I sympathize. For the past two days ds2 has taken one 45-60 minute nap, and gone to bed between 10:30-11. Now, he's pretty happy and all (which is amazing), but still, I need some time to myself you know? After a year+ of it taking an hour to put him to bed (and then having him wake up every hour after that), I'm beginning to resent the fact that I can't read my other 2 kids books at night, or do things with them that are easier to do without a toddler around.

I'm ashamed to admit that I was so fed up and out of patience last week that dh and I let ds2 cry







. I worked with him for over an hour, then dh went in but to no avail. He was very drowsy but really fighting it (and I KNEW he was tired because he'd only had one short nap). Dh and I went in every 5 minutes or so to pat him on the back, but no dice. To make a long horrible story short he never did go to sleep until we needed to go to sleep ourselves. So, even the worst of the worst strategy didn't work







. I still feel bad about that, but you know sometimes you are just driven to desperation.

I should add that we generally stick to the flexible, put them to bed when they are tired approach. Maybe I should try to a fixed bedtime or something, although I honestly cannot imagine how long it would take me to put ds2 to sleep if he wasn't really tired.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mere* 
I sympathize. For the past two days ds2 has taken one 45-60 minute nap, and gone to bed between 10:30-11. Now, he's pretty happy and all (which is amazing), but still, I need some time to myself you know? After a year+ of it taking an hour to put him to bed (and then having him wake up every hour after that), I'm beginning to resent the fact that I can't read my other 2 kids books at night, or do things with them that are easier to do without a toddler around.

I'm ashamed to admit that I was so fed up and out of patience last week that dh and I let ds2 cry







. I worked with him for over an hour, then dh went in but to no avail. He was very drowsy but really fighting it (and I KNEW he was tired because he'd only had one short nap). Dh and I went in every 5 minutes or so to pat him on the back, but no dice. To make a long horrible story short he never did go to sleep until we needed to go to sleep ourselves. So, even the worst of the worst strategy didn't work







. I still feel bad about that, but you know sometimes you are just driven to desperation.

I should add that we generally stick to the flexible, put them to bed when they are tired approach. Maybe I should try to a fixed bedtime or something, although I honestly cannot imagine how long it would take me to put ds2 to sleep if he wasn't really tired.

You LO and mine are very similar. Yours naps longer though! I'm so jealous. We've been doing 20 minute naps and then there are the always popular less than 5 minute naps.

I'm with you. We don't do CIO on purpose, but sometimes I need to put her down and walk away and that never helps. She just goes into hysterics. Although by the time I regroup, she's ready to sleep. Sometimes I think letting her cry lets her get past whatever it is keeping her awake, but I don't like doing it. I would rather rock her to sleep. I would rather not be at my limit and have to walk away at all.

V

V


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaMary* 
I have an almost 14 month old CRAP sleeper too so you'll get no advice from me...however, very poor night sleep - especially with the screaming - can be caused by a food intollerance (my DD has intollerances too so I know all about this phenomenon). Have you explored this possibility at all?

I am looking into it. It's not resonating though.

I'm thinking that DD might actually have some kind of sensory issue. Going to sleep should not trigger the adrenaline surge she experiences. She shouldn't be fighting sleep while asleep, kwim? I think there might be something off kilter in her nervous system.

V


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## Sylith (Apr 15, 2002)

My kids are both like this. They are ages 5 and 2. We're actually working with the good folks at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia to try to find some answers to why our kids sleep so poorly.

The first specialist we saw questioned me closely about our routines and sleep hygiene, etc. And then said, "Well, you're doing everything right..." Meanwhile, I have not had one uninterrupted night's sleep since DS1 was born, nearly six years ago. For what given value of "right" did he make this statement?

I can commiserate with your experience: I've read the books, I've taken the "expert" advice, I've tried just about everything -- and they still don't sleep well. Like you, I suspect there is some subtle neurological issue at work here.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sylith* 
My kids are both like this. They are ages 5 and 2. We're actually working with the good folks at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia to try to find some answers to why our kids sleep so poorly.

The first specialist we saw questioned me closely about our routines and sleep hygiene, etc. And then said, "Well, you're doing everything right..." Meanwhile, I have not had one uninterrupted night's sleep since DS1 was born, nearly six years ago. For what given value of "right" did he make this statement?

I can commiserate with your experience: I've read the books, I've taken the "expert" advice, I've tried just about everything -- and they still don't sleep well. Like you, I suspect there is some subtle neurological issue at work here.











Have the doctors had any help to offer at all? And what kind of specialists have you seen?

I've ordered some books today and from what I've gathered about sensory stuff online, I'm putting a tentative action plan in place.

I think DD needs lots and lots of activity and stimulation. I need to wear out her nervous system. So I'm going to hire the neighbor girls to come in and play with her once a day until their school starts.

No matter how bad the night before was or how little sleep I've had, I'm going to haul ass out of bed and get us to the Y for their morning childcare hours. If I'm too tired to workout, I'll just go sit on a bike and fake it.

We're going to find out when the open swim times are at the Y pool and DH will take her swimming.

We ordered her a bouncer horse for her first birthday.She loves to bounce and that will help too.

Once DD starts walking we'll have more options of things to do as well.

Hopefully that will help. I'll report back and let y'all know.

The biggest thing though has been to stop thinking of sleep as a singular issue and look at it more holistically.

V


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## Sylith (Apr 15, 2002)

Thanks for the hugs.

We've seen a therapist with a degree in social work, who was the one who pointed us toward CHOP. We've done an overnight sleep study in a sleep lab with DS1. We've had once visit with a neurologist. Currently we are doing a different kind of sleep study, in which DS1 wears a device called an actigraph for ten days and it records his periods of sleep and waking. All of this has taken nearly two years, and in that time it's gradually become evident that DS2 is a crappy, crappy sleeper too. For now we'll just work with DS1, who is five, more verbal, more compliant, etc.

The only really useful thing that's come up so far is that the neurologist recommended a small dose of melatonin at bedtime. It helps with sleep _onset_, and getting them to go to sleep at bedtime is not such a huge struggle. They still wake many times at night, and get up extremely early in the morning regardless of when they went to bed or how poorly they may have slept.

I'm not suggesting everybody rush out and drug their kids to sleep, but lack of quality sleep has been a huge, huge stressor for our family, and I'm very willing to accept what I perceive as a lesser risk factor.


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## widemouthedfrog (Mar 9, 2006)

Oh my, you are also describing my daughter.
But she is 3 years old and sleeps now, most of the time.
Sadly, this is the reason my dh is too stressed to even think of having another child - he doesn't want to go through me losing it again.

I found that working on acceptance of the situation - as your epiphany suggests - was the key for me. I tried to be ok with my daughter's sleep habits and my lack of sleep. Sometimes I cracked. Mostly, I am ok with that. Sometimes I sat rocking her all night or headed out with the stroller to walk around at 3 am. At some point I just accepted that this was the way of the world at that moment.

During our vacation two weeks ago, dd could not sleep (she had a hot dog before bed and she is not used to that) so we sat in the car most of the night and talked. This after I had a bit of a tantrum. But after that, I accepted that I was not going to sleep I was ok. We did finally sleep from 3-8 am, mostly snuggled in the back seat of the car looking out over the ocean. Lovely, in its own cramped way.

Things I learned after the first 3 years of (no) sleep:

Dd has a system that is very sensitive to caffeine, fatty food, and protein. She needs to have no caffeine and little fatty food and moderate protein before bedtime.

Dd has to have nearly complete darkness to sleep. Her body is very much in tune with light and activity levels, which is wonderfully biologically adaptive - in a society where moms have support, sleep with babies, and go to sleep when the sun goes down.

My daughter's movements would jerk her awake, and she couldn't sleep with covers on top of her. We used a swaddle or a sleep sack for a long time.

Dd is very sensitive to pain. I did eventually use medication when she was teething badly because it got her into the sleep rhythm.

I found that 1.5 years was a milestone for us, because dd finally started nursing, turning over, and sometimes sleeping for 2 hours at a time. Sometimes.

At 2.5 years she started sleeping through the night until 5 am, somewhat consistently.


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## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

I didn't fight sleep like that, but I have been told that I *never* napped, and I loved staying up late. I was watching Saturday Night Live when it debuted when I was 4 or 5 (I always forget what year it debuted) b/c I hated to sleep so very very much (and my mom was easy going, knowing that almost all the jokes would go over my head unless she explained them which she never did b/c I had to be quiet if staying up like that).

The thing that used to get me to sleep was hurting myself...I'd play and be hyper and talk and get out of bed and talk some more, and then I'd trip or bonk my head or something and then I'd sleep. Crazy. My poor mom.

Until I got pg with DS, and for the first time in my life could really nap (well, other than college when I wanted to nap through classes), I had to talk myself to sleep. Hubby was very good about that, but I did hurt his sleep.

Anyway, I'm saying I was a bad sleeper too (and just the other night I stayed up until dawn, reading a book from start to finish).

Although I don't necessarily know WHY these would help, since you're looking at these things holistically, you should think about trying chiropractic, cranio sacral therapy, and maybe even homeopathy with a trained practicioner to see if there's something awry that they can help. I know when I'm in need of an adjustment, sometimes I'm just so uncomfortable that it's hard to rest until I'm beyond wiped out. With cranio sacral therapy, I've had it done, and it was the first bodywork we had done with our son when he was 2 weeks old. He was just uncomfortable all the time, or at least it looked that way, and afterwards he was more peaceful in his skin. And with homeopathy, if you can find a constitutional remedy for her, that would be very helpful.

This probably isn't something for a baby, but for me as an adult, taking a calcium/magnesium pill has worked wonders on getting to sleep and staying asleep. Hubby watched me do this during pregnancy and whenever I remember since then, and knew it helped, but a month or so ago he started taking a cal/mag pill and was *amazed* at how much it helped.

Maybe when she's older you can look into a kiddo supplement of those two vitamins?


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sylith* 
Thanks for the hugs.

We've seen a therapist with a degree in social work, who was the one who pointed us toward CHOP. We've done an overnight sleep study in a sleep lab with DS1. We've had once visit with a neurologist. Currently we are doing a different kind of sleep study, in which DS1 wears a device called an actigraph for ten days and it records his periods of sleep and waking. All of this has taken nearly two years, and in that time it's gradually become evident that DS2 is a crappy, crappy sleeper too. For now we'll just work with DS1, who is five, more verbal, more compliant, etc.

The only really useful thing that's come up so far is that the neurologist recommended a small dose of melatonin at bedtime. It helps with sleep _onset_, and getting them to go to sleep at bedtime is not such a huge struggle. They still wake many times at night, and get up extremely early in the morning regardless of when they went to bed or how poorly they may have slept.

I'm not suggesting everybody rush out and drug their kids to sleep, but lack of quality sleep has been a huge, huge stressor for our family, and I'm very willing to accept what I perceive as a lesser risk factor.

THanks for the add'l info. Funny, I often wonder if melatonin would help DD. I read a doc's assessment of natural remedies and one of the things he said for melatonin was to use a time-released dose so it helped you sleep all night. I don't know what the dose would be for a baby and I think I would hold off on it until she's a bit older, but it has been something I've thought about.

Talk about stressors, the lack of sleep has given me a heart arrhythmia (had an EKG b/c I thought I was having mini heart attacks). We are in hard core sleep deprivation here. It's tough. Much harder than I ever thought it would be.

V


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *widemouthedfrog* 
Oh my, you are also describing my daughter.
But she is 3 years old and sleeps now, most of the time.
Sadly, this is the reason my dh is too stressed to even think of having another child - he doesn't want to go through me losing it again.

I found that working on acceptance of the situation - as your epiphany suggests - was the key for me. I tried to be ok with my daughter's sleep habits and my lack of sleep. Sometimes I cracked. Mostly, I am ok with that. Sometimes I sat rocking her all night or headed out with the stroller to walk around at 3 am. At some point I just accepted that this was the way of the world at that moment.

During our vacation two weeks ago, dd could not sleep (she had a hot dog before bed and she is not used to that) so we sat in the car most of the night and talked. This after I had a bit of a tantrum. But after that, I accepted that I was not going to sleep I was ok. We did finally sleep from 3-8 am, mostly snuggled in the back seat of the car looking out over the ocean. Lovely, in its own cramped way.

Things I learned after the first 3 years of (no) sleep:

Dd has a system that is very sensitive to caffeine, fatty food, and protein. She needs to have no caffeine and little fatty food and moderate protein before bedtime.

Dd has to have nearly complete darkness to sleep. Her body is very much in tune with light and activity levels, which is wonderfully biologically adaptive - in a society where moms have support, sleep with babies, and go to sleep when the sun goes down.

My daughter's movements would jerk her awake, and she couldn't sleep with covers on top of her. We used a swaddle or a sleep sack for a long time.

Dd is very sensitive to pain. I did eventually use medication when she was teething badly because it got her into the sleep rhythm.

I found that 1.5 years was a milestone for us, because dd finally started nursing, turning over, and sometimes sleeping for 2 hours at a time. Sometimes.

At 2.5 years she started sleeping through the night until 5 am, somewhat consistently.

My DD has some similarities with yours--thank you for sharing. We also are proactive on pain meds for teething. We swaddled until she was too big for it. I would still swaddle if I could. Now I just pin her against my body (Funnily enough I was reading Dr Sears' Fussy baby book and they did this with their kid one time and felt terribly guilty and I was like why? You're just swaddling your kid with your body. If it works, what's the problem? But I guess they felt it was too authortarian, but tying kids up in a blanket is okay? Strange.)

V


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkybean* 
I didn't fight sleep like that, but I have been told that I *never* napped, and I loved staying up late. I was watching Saturday Night Live when it debuted when I was 4 or 5 (I always forget what year it debuted) b/c I hated to sleep so very very much (and my mom was easy going, knowing that almost all the jokes would go over my head unless she explained them which she never did b/c I had to be quiet if staying up like that).

The thing that used to get me to sleep was hurting myself...I'd play and be hyper and talk and get out of bed and talk some more, and then I'd trip or bonk my head or something and then I'd sleep. Crazy. My poor mom.

Until I got pg with DS, and for the first time in my life could really nap (well, other than college when I wanted to nap through classes), I had to talk myself to sleep. Hubby was very good about that, but I did hurt his sleep.

Anyway, I'm saying I was a bad sleeper too (and just the other night I stayed up until dawn, reading a book from start to finish).

Although I don't necessarily know WHY these would help, since you're looking at these things holistically, you should think about trying chiropractic, cranio sacral therapy, and maybe even homeopathy with a trained practicioner to see if there's something awry that they can help. I know when I'm in need of an adjustment, sometimes I'm just so uncomfortable that it's hard to rest until I'm beyond wiped out. With cranio sacral therapy, I've had it done, and it was the first bodywork we had done with our son when he was 2 weeks old. He was just uncomfortable all the time, or at least it looked that way, and afterwards he was more peaceful in his skin. And with homeopathy, if you can find a constitutional remedy for her, that would be very helpful.

This probably isn't something for a baby, but for me as an adult, taking a calcium/magnesium pill has worked wonders on getting to sleep and staying asleep. Hubby watched me do this during pregnancy and whenever I remember since then, and knew it helped, but a month or so ago he started taking a cal/mag pill and was *amazed* at how much it helped.

Maybe when she's older you can look into a kiddo supplement of those two vitamins?

Interesting. I actually take Ca and Mg myself and it does nothing other than keep my blood pressure super low. Interesting.

I don't think I'm a good sleeper. I tend to ramp up when I'm overtired. In fact, I could sleep now, but I'm not. I need to decompress. DD may be like me, but super-charged with DH's energy. I am low energy and don't have to burn it off before I can sleep, I think DD does.

V


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

She is still so small, not yet a year right?

None of my kids settled down sleep wise until after age two and dropping naps didn't help at all. It just made dinner a nightmare.

Good luck...


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## yogafeet (Jul 3, 2007)

You own it, sister friend! Good for you!!!


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## KimPM (Nov 18, 2005)

"Interesting. I actually take Ca and Mg myself and it does nothing other than keep my blood pressure super low. Interesting."

I've found that any magnesium supplement causes my (still nursing) DS to get hyper and have trouble sleeping (as well as trouble getting to sleep). Have you tried not taking Mg for a couple weeks?

. Oh nevermind, I just read your siggy and it looks like you are not nursing her anyway.


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## canuckgirl1975 (Apr 6, 2008)

I am scared that this might be what I am looking forward to. My 11 week old DS hates to sleep...no matter how exhausted he gets. It is as if he is afraid he is going to miss something. DH and I are trying to establish healthy sleeping routines and have not had any luck so far. Keep your fingers crossed for us please.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

I have a crazy non-sleeper. I have talked about her sleep issues till I just CAN NOT anymore. I have read all the books. Right now I'm on Sleepless in America (because so many recommend it) and it's the first book that didn't either seem too harsh or too fluffy. I am finally getting it - yes, my WHOLE DAY is going to be about getting my child to sleep at night. It's not as simple as a nap routine or a bed time routine or quiet time in the evening. Yes, if I want to sleep at night, at least for now my whole day is going to have to be about pointing her towards sleep.

I have been up since 2.30 this morning when my child got up FOR THE DAY so I've had plenty of time to get started on this book. At first, I was really just ticked off that anyone would tell me I'd have to possibly rearrange my whole life if I ever wanted to sleep again but you know, as they say, it is what it is. If that's what it takes, fine. I can not live on four broken hours of sleep.


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## Manonash (Jun 2, 2006)

While I'm not as sleep deprived as many of you here, DD (2.5yr) has never been a very good sleeper and has awoke at least 3x a night to nurse for 45minutes-1hr most of her life. I couldn't get her to night wean, and when I tried having DH take her when she would wake up she'd just keep him up. Luckily, she has never been a huge fighter, she just wouldn't sleep very well... tends to lie there awake and every few minutes start kicking. She's always been a very light sleeper. She would easily startle awake. If I moved, she was up.

For GI reasons, we decided to stop letting her eat anything within 3hrs of bedtime (she was a grazer). All of sudden she has started sleeping most of the night. I really can't believe the difference. I've got my fingers crossed it keeps working. I hope you find what works for you and your LO soon. I thought I was going to lose it a few times.


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## elisheva (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkybean* 

Although I don't necessarily know WHY these would help, since you're looking at these things holistically, you should think about trying chiropractic, cranio sacral therapy, and maybe even homeopathy with a trained practicioner to see if there's something awry that they can help. I know when I'm in need of an adjustment, sometimes I'm just so uncomfortable that it's hard to rest until I'm beyond wiped out. With cranio sacral therapy, I've had it done, and it was the first bodywork we had done with our son when he was 2 weeks old. He was just uncomfortable all the time, or at least it looked that way, and afterwards he was more peaceful in his skin. And with homeopathy, if you can find a constitutional remedy for her, that would be very helpful.












I agree that trying chiro or craniosacral might be a great starting point before launching into the medical system.


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## karin95 (Jun 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
I'm thinking that DD might actually have some kind of sensory issue. Going to sleep should not trigger the adrenaline surge she experiences. She shouldn't be fighting sleep while asleep, kwim? I think there might be something off kilter in her nervous system.

V

our foster daughter had major sleep issues - getting to, and staying, asleep. We got occupational therapy for her through the Early Intervention program. It's free, and depending on the qualifications in your county, your daughter *probably* would qualify based on being "delayed" in "adaptive skills". (sleeping is an "adaptive skill" and at 8 months they should be sleeping more than 4 hours in a stretch, and falling asleep in a "normal" amount of time). I'm not saying i agree with their pathologizing approach, but what we wanted was help, and we got it! Occupational Therapy was AWESOME for her sleep, and helped her with other things she was slightly delayed in, as well.
She DEFINITELY had sensory issues.

What did the OT do with her? Well, basically, yoga.







We did 1 yoga pose with her, 4x/day, and it really helped a lot. The OT did other fun stuff with her during the 2x/week visits, but the yoga was our homework, and she liked it.

I really recommend calling up your EI program, or getting an OT referral from your ped, if you'd prefer. It could help a lot, especially if your daughter does have sensory issues, you want to help her out now as much as possible, so sleep issues don't turn into other stuff as well.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

The books are written with the "average" kid in mind, not the sleep-fighter, not the highly sensitive, not the active alert, etc.

You have to parent the child you have, not the one you want/wish you had/the kid in "the books."

For us, getting to her at the first peep and parenting her back down worked, right up until the point when it didn't work any longer - at some point, us going to her woke her up more fully, and just exacerbated the problem.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karin95* 
our foster daughter had major sleep issues - getting to, and staying, asleep. We got occupational therapy for her through the Early Intervention program. It's free, and depending on the qualifications in your county, your daughter *probably* would qualify based on being "delayed" in "adaptive skills". (sleeping is an "adaptive skill" and at 8 months they should be sleeping more than 4 hours in a stretch, and falling asleep in a "normal" amount of time). I'm not saying i agree with their pathologizing approach, but what we wanted was help, and we got it! Occupational Therapy was AWESOME for her sleep, and helped her with other things she was slightly delayed in, as well.
She DEFINITELY had sensory issues.

What did the OT do with her? Well, basically, yoga.







We did 1 yoga pose with her, 4x/day, and it really helped a lot. The OT did other fun stuff with her during the 2x/week visits, but the yoga was our homework, and she liked it.

I really recommend calling up your EI program, or getting an OT referral from your ped, if you'd prefer. It could help a lot, especially if your daughter does have sensory issues, you want to help her out now as much as possible, so sleep issues don't turn into other stuff as well.

Thank you for this! I will bring it up with the ped for sure.

V


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 
I have a crazy non-sleeper. I have talked about her sleep issues till I just CAN NOT anymore. I have read all the books. Right now I'm on Sleepless in America (because so many recommend it) and it's the first book that didn't either seem too harsh or too fluffy. I am finally getting it - yes, my WHOLE DAY is going to be about getting my child to sleep at night. It's not as simple as a nap routine or a bed time routine or quiet time in the evening. Yes, if I want to sleep at night, at least for now my whole day is going to have to be about pointing her towards sleep.

I have been up since 2.30 this morning when my child got up FOR THE DAY so I've had plenty of time to get started on this book. At first, I was really just ticked off that anyone would tell me I'd have to possibly rearrange my whole life if I ever wanted to sleep again but you know, as they say, it is what it is. If that's what it takes, fine. I can not live on four broken hours of sleep.









We've had a few of those early morning wake up calls, but that is the one thing that has improved with time. So far.

I probably just jinxed myself







:

I've heard a lot about that book too. Maybe I should buy it.

V


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

So here's the update.

I'm killing myself to keep DD busy. I read up a bit on sensory issues and learned about the concept of 'heavy work'. From my backround as a massage therapist, I know that you can stimulate nerves into numbness/exhaustion which is similar to what heavy work does. It calms the nervous system down through the energy burned working.

It's hard to come up with heavy work for a 10mo who isn't walking. But I'm trying.

DD took a 2h nap today with very little prodding from me. It was amazing.







: Although it means nothing if I can't replicate it. Here's what happened. She refused a nap at her usual time and so we went to a mother's group meeting as planned. By the time we got back, she was so wilted she was out the second I laid her down. I held her for 45 minutes (paranoid she would wake the second I moved so I stayed until she had at least a decent nap if she woke) and then left her on her own. Aside from checking on her all the time thinking she would be up any minute, it was great. So I think maybe I just need to keep her up longer and not put her to bed when she rubs her eyes?

Then we took her to the Y tonight and the childcare there which was full of older kids who lavished her with attention. Then Target. Then home hoping to improve on bedtime when has been so bad the last few months, she just won't go to sleep. Again, she was exhausted. I rocked her for 6 minutes and she was O. U. T. It was wonderful!







:

But then she was up again an hour later. And restless. Ugh. I rocked her for 45 minutes until my hands went numb and my shoulders burned. I rocked her in her crib, leaning over the rail too. Her sleep was light and unreliable, but she clearly wanted to sleep. I checked her diaper for poo, nothing. I made her a bottle and fed her. Tried to rock her again and no go, she started fighting me and arching her back. Finally I set her in her crib (we'll bring her into bed with us later, when we go to bed) because I physically couldn't keep going--my left arm is still tingling and burning.

She cried and fussed for about a half hour and then konked. Soooo not what I wanted to do! I spent forever rocking and loving her and nothing? I hate that! I just feel like nothing is working. Why can't she respond to all the gentle stuff? She's so contrarian. What if she really needs to CIO sometimes? I don't want to do that! I don't believe in it. Why does she? Ugh. I feel inadequate because I feel like I can't meet her needs.
















V


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

What happens if you nurse her down in your bed and then roll away? DS never slept well in a crib. It was futile.

Any reflux diagnosis? Wondering what the back arching is about.


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## Autumn C. (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't have anything helpful to add just my sympathies.

And the fact that I am now TOTALLY freaked out! Is this what's in store for me too?

I will be getting Sleepless in America. It can't hurt.

Some one should start a crap sleepers club since no one understands like the mama of another crap sleeper.

Please keep posting updates I will be interested to see if anything comes of seeing the M.D.'s.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Naps yesterday were tough. She was screaming for sleep. But wouldn't relax when I rocked her and was kicking and screaming and wrestling me.

I have a bruise the size of a half dollar in my stomach from DD.

Both naps I had to set her in her crib for a few minutes and let her yell herself down to a place where she would accept being rocked. On the good side, she really only needed a few minutes. On the bad side, this is still not what I want to do.

Naps were around 40 minutes.

I did not do a good job of tiring her out during the day. I had counted on one activity that didn't pan out and failed to have a back up plan.

We did have evening plans. She didn't show any interest in a late afternoon nap so we went on our merry way. She was fussy at the event we went to and toward the end was shrieking at the top of her lungs b/c she was tired.

I hustled her home (she cried and screamed in her car seat the whole way, well beyond tired) and rocked her to sleep at 8:15. She was out in less than five minutes. She woke up an hour later but I was ready for her knowing she would be hungry. I fed her and rocked her back to sleep. No crying, much nicer bedtime than the night before. Didn't hear from her again until 3:20pm.

Today is a busy day. We're going to the Y this morning. A play date this afternoon and DH is taking her swimming tonight. So she should be good and tired for each sleep cycle today. I hope.

The night sleep went well yesterday, the naps still sucked. But I seem to be close to finding a pattern that will work for DD. It's just a real challenge to come up with things that will tire her out on a regular basis.

V


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## eurobin (Aug 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
Something is wrong with the experts.

Yup. Now... take it one step further though. Realize that all those authors of all those sleep books (or parenting books in general, even) never met your kid. And YOU are your kid's mom, so YOU are the expert on your kid. YOU. Seriously. For real.

For me, parenting my Nuthead makes no sense. She's inconsistent, I'm inconsistent. The only constant is that I love her a whole bunch and I just trust that between her and me, we'll figure it out.

My DD slept like crap -- no matter what I did, no matter what my attitude was -- for her first 22 months. It's easy for me to preach from this position now (I'm relatively rested, who'd-a-thunk it'd be possible??) but the take-away is that she did it on her own terms. Not on her own because goodness knows, I attempted to interfere a million times. But my plans, actions, inactions, etc. didn't make one lick of difference until SHE was ready.

There is no sleep book that says "just wait till 22 months and s/he'll sleep thru." And if I have anything to do with it, there never will be. Because even though 22 months was Miss Anna's magic age, it's not "the" magic age. It just happens. And you can't DO anything about it.

So all you can do is just embrace that as your kid's mom, you're the expert. Sleep may not be possible, but you can love him/her like no other. Just build from that and realize that s/he'll be sleeping through the night before you can even believe it.







s


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## Anny (Apr 7, 2007)

Just a quickie, no time to chat, I'm off to bed with my very own crappy sleeper - an 18 month old one with so signs of changing anytime soon!

Anyhow, check out the blog 'ask moxie' - it has been recommended on this site a few times - she talks about kids who are tension increasers, and kids who are tension decreasers. If you have an increaser, leaving them to cry will freak them out and they will get worse, not better. But if your child is a tension DEcreaser, sometimes they need to have a cry/rail/vent to tap off their excess energy before they can relax enough to sleep.

Moxie explains it really well, it just may be what you are dealing with here.
Hope it's helpfull.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Thanks to everyone following this thread and posting their thoughts!

Up until recently I would've said my DD increases tension with crying. Now it seems like she needs to let off steam and decreases tension. So weird.

I am SO tired today! OMG. I'm too old to be a mommy. Or too weak. Or something. Yesterday was insane! Running around like a crazy woman trying to tire DD out.

DD had a 25 minute nap yesterday morning that wasn't so hot, but she insisted and went to sleep really easily.

We went to the Y after that. I worked out. DD played her little heart out in childcare and loved it.

Went home, she napped for 1.5 hours without a peep. Easily went to sleep, no problems. Amazing. I laid prone during her nap wondering how I was going to make it the rest of the day! DD's killing me! And my ass hurt from working out.

Drove to our playdate. Played. Drove home while DD catnapped in her carseat.

DH took DD to visit relatives.

Bedtime went okay. She went down around 8 and slept 'til 2ish. BUT was pretty much up after that. Two thoughts on that; we forgot to give her motrin for teething and I wonder if maybe we did a little too much yesterday as DD looked shell shocked by the end of the day.

The problem is, _I'm_ exhausted today. I can not muster the energy to do anything today. I'm such a wimp!! Maybe I shouldn't work out so hard at the Y and conserve my energy for tiring out DD. So we didn't go anywhere or do anything this morning. DD just played in the living room and cruised the furniture. She was up around 6am and finally started asking for her nap around 10. 40 minutes later she's finally out. So that kind of sucked. It was the usual 'I'm tired, but I don't know how to relax and sleep so I'll kick and head butt mommy instead' BS that I'm trying to resolve.

Overall, I think we're on the right track. I'm going to talk to the ped about the whole thing and some of her other sensory issues and see if we can get an SPD diagnosis and some OT.

I'll post here again if anything changes or if I somehow figure out the secret to infant sleep.

V


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