# Teen mothers



## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

There was recently a cover story in my newspaper about a baby being delivered - one of those things where the baby just came out at home, and a wonderful neighbor helped the mom to the hospital and the baby was fine, that sort of happy story. And there was a huge picture on the front cover of the two smiling parents holding their baby.

The thing is, the mom was 15 and the dad was 16. So my newspaper received a ton of letters from people condemning them for glorifying teen pregnancy and setting a bad example, because they reported the story and told the ages of the girl and boy as though this were perfectly "normal." One letter writer stated that the article didn't tell the real story and that the headline should have read, "15-year-old Girl Gives Birth."

I'm not sure exactly how I feel about this. What do you think?


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## Leatherette (Mar 4, 2003)

The story was about the baby being born at home and the neighbor helping, right?

Some people want all their news to be about shock and condemnation. They should just read Weekly World News.

Teen parents are not automatically "mistakes" and "disasters". Kooks do most of the negative letter-writing into papers anyway.

L.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I doubt that I'd have written a letter to the paper, but I think it's wrong to portray 15 year olds giving birth as though it was just a wonderful event. I think it's very selfish for 15 year olds to plan pregnancies, especially when they're living with their parents and unable to care for themselves, to say nothing of a new person. This is not to say that I know the entire story, and I'm sure that I'm going to be flamed for this in a big way, but that's how I feel about it. It's not a fantastic dream world that we're living in. I'm glad that the birth went well and that the baby is healthy, but there's really no need to glamorize teen pregnancy. Too many kids already think it's glamorous enough.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

I think the newspaper should have taken an in-between stance: reported the story as the good news it was, but also made a point of reporting on how the kids happened to be having a baby at such a young age and how they planned to take care of it. For example: _Smith said she hadn't planned on becoming a mother at 15, but the unexpected pregnancy has motivated her to make firm plans for her future. "I got my GED last month, and I plan to start community college classes next January," she said. Jones, who now works part-time as a telemarketer while completing his sophomore year at Central High, plans to get his GED this summer so that he can take a full-time job at the paper mill to support his son. The young family lives with Smith's parents._ That seems to me to explain the situation well enough that nobody would call it "glamorous" unless they're really trying.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

A birth is almost always a happy and wonderful event. How dare those letter writer's imply that this baby doesn't deserve to be celebrated because of who his parents are.

That being said, teen pregnancies are unfortunate. I don't know of many that are planned though. So why wouldn't these new parents try to make the best out of their situation. And it's wonderful that her neighbor helped deliver her son. What a wonderful story to tell him later on.

I don't know, I think we've come a long way. Girls used to be hidden away in convents if they got pregnant, their babies were stolen from them because their parents refused to take them back if they didn't let the nuns take their babies. It was tragic. But now that it's out in the open teens can see the work it entails to have a baby. I think our rising teen pregnancy rate has more to do with lack of parenting than newspaper articles like the one mentioned. The rate of girls with loving, involved parents getting pregnant is probably really similar to what it was in the past.

-Heather


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by moondiapers_
*That being said, teen pregnancies are unfortunate. I don't know of many that are planned though.*
Many teen pregnancies are indeed planned; I've met quite a few teenagers who planned pregnancies (including my own sister).

Quote:

*I don't know, I think we've come a long way. Girls used to be hidden away in convents if they got pregnant, their babies were stolen from them because their parents refused to take them back if they didn't let the nuns take their babies. It was tragic. But now that it's out in the open teens can see the work it entails to have a baby. I think our rising teen pregnancy rate has more to do with lack of parenting than newspaper articles like the one mentioned. The rate of girls with loving, involved parents getting pregnant is probably really similar to what it was in the past.
*
The teen pregnancy rate actually isn't rising; it's lower than it was for most of the 50's and 60's. What is rising is the number of girls who are choosing to keep their babies and raise them without getting married, as well as the number of young teens/girls (10-15) getting pregnant and delivering babies. Back in the 50's & 60's, if a 17 year old girl got pregnant and wanted to keep the baby she got married most of the time. The vast majority of the babies were given up (or taken) for adoption, though, unless the girls were from very wealthy families in which case they were often "sent away" to have an abortion under the guise of a vacation.


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## Quaniliaz (Oct 11, 2002)

Quote:

I think our rising teen pregnancy rate has more to do with lack of parenting than newspaper articles like the one mentioned
This is somewhat OT - but I just wanted to point out that teen pregnancies ARE NOT on the rise.

Quote:

The teen birth rate has declined slowly but steadily from 1991 to 2002 with an overall decline of 30 percent for those aged 15 to 19. These recent declines reverse the 23-percent rise in the teenage birth rate from 1986 to 1991.
This is from National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy

Back to the OP, I really think that teen moms and dads usually feel bad enough about their situation that added guilt/shame/judgement does nothing. I am fully in favor of supporting them so they can be awesome parents, who are not constantly having to apologize for their situation.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I also think birth should be celebrated. No matter who the parents are, I'm glad the baby is here and it deserves just as much as other babies do!

I think some people are just meant to be parents at ages that are socially unacceptable. I don't think teen pregnancy and parenting is something that is going to go away with enough education, condoms, or whatever. Throughout history, teen parenting has always been a fact (in some countries it is the norm) and I think it will continue to be this way for many teens.

I think it's great that teen birth can be portrayed in a more positive light! Sex education teachers often try to teach about only the negative, painful aspects of birth, as if this will help reduce the teen birth rate. I think more teens should know about homebirth and breastfeeding, and that childbearing can be a wonderful experience.

I don't think a teen who can't afford to support a baby is any more "selfish" than an adult who can't support one and chooses to have one anyway. Dh and I can't afford our kids; we depend on some help from the govt and we planned our second baby anyway. I don't feel I have to apologize for this, or pretend we didn't plan it. We wanted another child and we have every right to have one; our baby has the right to exist. Of course, since we're married and over 21, some people don't mind as much. I don't see how age (or marital status) should matter at all. Life should be celebrated!

I think the selfish people are those who just don't want to help support babies. Who do they think is going to change their diapers in the nursing home and serve them their hamburgers? Other peoples' kids!


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## anothermama (Nov 11, 2003)

I think that we do a GREAT disservice to our teenagers to continually force feed them the notion that having a baby will RUIN their life and they are somehow lesser for going that route. If a teenager gets pregnant and choses to have their child, I think we ought to do all we can, societally, to encourage them and help them STILL be able to stay on the "right track" for them.

Don't get me wrong.....I don't think teens should ACTIVELY seek to have babies, especially at 15 or 16...but its gonna happen so we should try to be supportive as best we can.


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## dancinmama (Jul 29, 2002)

from the perspective of the mom/family the story was about, i certainly don't think i would have wanted the story of my childs birth to be titled--"15yr old girl gives birth", anymore than i would want it to read "30yr old woman gives birth"--that wasn't the point of the story, and to make it the point would be poor journalism and potentially quite embarassing for this young mom...

i think there are far too many generalizations made on this issue (certainly not without reason, but still...). there are lots of great teen parents out there. there are ones who are "making the best of it" and need our support. there are ones who have chosen to have a babe at a younger age than our society deems acceptable and are doing a great job. there are also lots of "adult" parents screwing up all over the place who escape dirty looks because people assume they're responsible grown ups...

you just can't judge by appearances...


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I also think that teen mothers are held to an unfairly higher standard than adult mothers are.

For example, if someone sees my kid with scraped knees and dirty clothes, they are likely to assume that she has been very active and gets to play outside a lot. But if a teen mother has the same child, it's assumed she has abused him and neglects to do his laundry.

If I were to drop out of school and stay home with dd, most people I know would be a little concerned and want to make sure it was my choice, but in the end would think it was a good idea. But if a teen were to make that decision, she would be just another high school dropout with "no future."







:


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

ITA with eilonwy

I do think you should be able to support a child before you deliberately decide to have one, whether you are a teenager or in your 40s.


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## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by moondiapers_
*A birth is almost always a happy and wonderful event. How dare those letter writer's imply that this baby doesn't deserve to be celebrated because of who his parents are.*
I agree. Also, there was a 15 and 16 year old couple who had a planned homebirth in the book Baby Catcher. in fact, they had 4 planned homebirths by the time the book was over. It wasn't sad at all, and I think they made their own choices and they were good ones for them.

I had an unplanned pregnancy at age 19 but it could have just as easily been 14. Would I love my child less if I'd had her at 14? No. I may not have been such a great mom, but I would have tried my best and I know I'd have done a damn site better than most of the people I see when I leave my fantasy world of MDC playgroups and LLL. Even though I was in a solid relationship and in pretty good shape to ahve a baby in terms of my life, I got negative reception from a lot of my loved ones. Well WTF/ Was I supposed to go have an abortion because they didn't think I was ready to have a child? She was here, she was on her way. She was meant to be. Every single tone of voice I heard, I interpreted. It hurt a lot. And you know what? I have been a more educated parent and a parent who has stuck to my values more than every singe jerk who made me feel bad.

I hope that these kids can watch all these people writing nasty letters and making these them feel like crap eat their words. I didn't parent well because people said stupid, unkind, thoughtless things, but it sure feels good to do it knowing what they thought. There is such discrimination against young parents. It is seriously lame and unproductive. Maybe if we supported teen parents instead of humiliating them, they'd do a better job.
Lauren


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Thanks for all the replies so far. I enjoy hearing all the different viewpoints.

Let me just clear one thing up - the letters I read were not bashing the teen parents, they were criticizing the newspaper for presenting the story without any acknowledgement of how young the parents were (other than simply stating their ages).

I agree that once a teen has had a baby and decided to keep him or her, giving them the support they need is the best thing to do. The parent center I used to go to has a whole lot of outreach programs for teen moms. Most of them really do want to be good parents, but are just lacking the resources.

I like the suggestion EnviroBecca gave about the newspaper addressing the parents' ages in some way, to show that this is not just yout typical happy couple having a baby, la de da.

Keep the replies coming...


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

with a set of parents?
I was married at 15 (turned 16 three months later) and we lived with my parents after his while he finished hs but we moved away to the area he went to college for awhile in ..

But I do think it is a tad sad that the report was about hey look there are some good samaritans out there and people who care about other people into the bash fest ....sorry

OT but of course years ago we in our 30 and 40s would have been considered ancient and the 15 the epitome of adult. Yes I realize life expectancy was about 25 back then too thereabouts...
Just looking at the shift..


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

About teen pregnancy rates either rising or dropping...

Have they really changed that much, or could it be it's just less hidden now? I read something in a book about sexual double standards from a woman who went to high school during the 50s, and she said that teenage sex and pregnancy was just as common back then as it is now, and this was in a "middle class" school. It was just hidden better back then, with maternity homes and secret illegal abortions.

(Of course, this is one woman's experience in one school, but it's something to think about.)

But in the 50s there was no way you could stay in school pregnant, the way you can now. My mom got pregnant at age 22 in 1967 and had to hide it or she would have been thrown out of college. She was single, and it just wasn't tolerated then in a small town. So she moved to SF and became a hippie, than gave the baby up. She had planned to keep him but after a month saw that she was getting no support and that it just wasn't going to work.

She won't even talk about it; I had to pry the info out of her older sister who, ironically, went through the same thing. She was able to find her child 20 years later, while my mom wasn't.


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## EmeraldStar8 (Nov 12, 2002)

Young parents (hate the term teen parents) deserve just as much help as other parents do, not cast into the shadows. So many people sit there and have the nerve to judge, yet they haven't walked a mile in their shoes







. Young parents can do just a good job as people older can do, if not sometimes better.

(There is a high school in Brisbane where i am that has a baby room complete with cots and toys so parents can study beside their children. They currently have i think 37 young mothers and 2 fathers getting a high school education.)


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## wende (Oct 4, 2003)

I had my oldest child at 15 years old. My doctor told me that I was a better parent than many "adults" he saw on a regular basis and he was proud of me. THAT is the kind of thing that teen parents need to hear. They need to be reasured that they are good parents, they are making good parenting choices, and that they can do it. Believe me, there are enough people who critisize teen mothers and say rude, inappropriate, hurtful things on a regular basis. What those parents need is to be told what an amazing job they did with the delivery and how that's just the start to an amazing life as parents. They did NOT need their faces plastered on the front page of a newspaper gorrifying the fact that they were teen agers.


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## NomD (Jan 11, 2004)

I think that it's great that the newspaper did a positive birth story. Who cares how old the parents were? Good parents can be any age, so can bad parents. How is telling the story of one little baby's wonderful entry into the world "glamorizing" teen pregnancy? I am sick of the stereotypes.


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## Ravin (Mar 19, 2002)

There was a teen mom at my last LLL meeting, she was there w/ the house mom at the maternity home where she's living. This maternity home for minor moms has a 100% success rate at starting the moms off breastfeeding. The girl was planning to nurse and pump while she went back to school and work.

My best childhood friend stubbornly refuses to even consider nursing her second child, because she doesn't think she can handle it. She won't even try. She's 27.

I say, more power to a mom of ANY age who does her best to educate herself and take care of her baby in the best way possible. And more power to the baby's father, who has stuck around rather than walking out on the responsibility as so many (often over the age of majority) fathers of the children of young moms do.

I do think the bias against teenage moms in our culture is just that--cultural. If given proper training, support, and preparation--especially support!--they'll be fine. It's our culture's extremely prolonged expectation of childish behavior and of later of absolute independence that's the problem.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I think if teens choose positive birth choices, breastfeeding, etc. the negative physical things associated with teen pg (low birth weight, etc.) will drop, and people will have one less excuse about why teens shouldn't have babies.

Another excuse is that they are "still growing," but people stop growing at different times. I was all done height-wise and puberty-wise at 16.

I think the health problems associated with teen pg are due to poor quality of care and poor nutrition, both of which can be helped by seeing a midwife.


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## grisandole (Jan 11, 2002)

I don't have much time to elaborate as much as I'd like on this subject; but want to say that my pregnancy with ds1, when I was 16/17, was much easier, as was the birth, than my ds2, who I had when I was 26. With ds1, I ate right, got plenty of exercise, etc; had very little morning sickeness, it was a breeze. With ds2, I had awful morning sickness that lasted until I was 4 1/2 months, I didn't eat nearly as good as I should have; and there were some minor issues throughout; I had a homebirth, but it was rough at some points.

Anyway, my point is that I had a healthy pregnancy as a teen, ds1 was normal birthweight (big, acutally, almost 9lbs), no problems at all. I agree that with proper prenatal care and nutrition, there isn't any additional risk to having a baby as a teen. IIRC, the "risk" factor is for teens UNDER 14, as they aren't as developed yet.

Kristi


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## Foobar (Dec 15, 2002)

I don't see this story as negative. The PARENTS were there (ie, the mother and father of the baby) and that is very important for this child to start out with a family.

So the mother was young? I don't see that as a huge problem.

I guess I get frustrated with Americans when on one hand, we get blasted with "pro-life" and on the other "How could this teen have gotten pregnant and had a child"
Can't have it both ways....


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

That seems to be how it is if you're a teen; people will hate you whether you have an abortion or a baby. The only constructive advice they offer is "You shouldn't have gotten pregnant/had sex!" Well now that what's done is done, what good does it do to lecture her on what she "should" have done or not done?

A whole other issue is how do we even know what other people "should" do, but since so many people have this idea that adults always know better than children/teens, that argument will go nowhere.

From what I hear, it doesn't get better when that teen grows up. She can be 45 and have a high-paying job, husband, nice house, etc. but if she has a 30-year-old child, people will see only that aspect of her.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Greaseball_
*I don't think a teen who can't afford to support a baby is any more "selfish" than an adult who can't support one and chooses to have one anyway. Dh and I can't afford our kids; we depend on some help from the govt and we planned our second baby anyway. I don't feel I have to apologize for this, or pretend we didn't plan it. We wanted another child and we have every right to have one; our baby has the right to exist. Of course, since we're married and over 21, some people don't mind as much. I don't see how age (or marital status) should matter at all. Life should be celebrated!

I think the selfish people are those who just don't want to help support babies. Who do they think is going to change their diapers in the nursing home and serve them their hamburgers? Other peoples' kids!*
I didn't say it was selfish to have a baby if you "can't afford" to; I said it was selfish to have a baby if you can't take care of yourself. Yes, there are teenagers who are more responsible than many (if not most) adults, but the vast majority of 15 year olds are _children_. These are people who need their parents to remind them to set an alarm clock to get up for school in the morning. They are people who don't know enough about themselves or the world they live in to be capable of living entirely on their own. You can argue with me all you like about this, but for every 15 year old I've encountered or heard about who could concievably be a better parent than your average 25 year old, I've encountered or heard about dozens more who simply aren't prepared for the realities of life as an adult.

For someone who is not a teen parent, I've experienced a remarkable amount of shaming for being one (I look very young and don't wear a wedding ring). I have witnessed firsthand how young teenagers and those who are percieved to be young teenagers with small children are treated differently in our society, as well as the difference between the treatment of white and non-white teens with children. It's pretty scary to watch, and it's humiliating when they're talking about you.

I don't think shaming them is the right answer, either. I think kids need to learn what parenting is and what that entails. Some aspects of parenting can only be garnered through experience, but much can be learned from having positive role models. Every single schoolchild (or non school child, for that matter) should be required to take a parenting class, not just those who are already pregnant/expectant fathers/parenting. They should know that there is usually much more to having a baby than they believe. You might be shocked at the number of 11-15 year olds who think that the most important think about taking care of a baby is making sure that they've got an entire wardrobe from BabyGap, but when you ask a young girl who's trying to get pregnant why, her first response is usually that baby clothing is cute and she wants an excuse to buy some. After that, they say that they want someone who'll love them no matter what. (This is not unique to young mothers; I've heard many mothers of "reasonable" ages, i.e. over 25 say this. I've never heard anyone over 25 mention baby clothes as a reason for wanting a child.)

Kids (male and female) need to learn that having a baby means making yourself forever responsible for another human being. If they are not yet responsible for themselves then it's unreasonable for them to expect to be capable of being responsible for someone else.

Things can get better for (young) teen moms in the future, but they have to work to make it that way. If you're actually taking care of your child in a reasonable way, seeking support when you need it and doing the things that any parent must do to keep your child healthy and safe, then people will eventually stop seeing you as "a teen parent" or "a statistic". There comes a point where the condition of your children speaks for itself, and people will assume that however old you are, you were "old enough" when your children were born.


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## Foobar (Dec 15, 2002)

Perhaps this is for another thread but why is 15 a child and 18 an adult?

I've always considered people between 14-18 to be in a transition period....

Sorry, probably belongs in another thread..


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

Yes, there are teenagers who are more responsible than many (if not most) adults, but the vast majority of 15 year olds are children.
That is probably true, but I think the majority of these girls do not plan their pregnancies. Those who do probably have something going very wrong in their lives that makes them think a baby would fix it.

Some of these girls are in horrible living conditions and they know having a baby will get them into a subsidized apartment. I know that's no reason to have one, but one thing to prevent these pregnancies would be to improve the lives of teens in such situations.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Foobar_
*Perhaps this is for another thread but why is 15 a child and 18 an adult?
*
Most 15 year olds are children, IME. Most 18 year olds are in a transitional period, generally closer to adulthood than childhood. This is not to say that it's impossible for a 15 year old to be an adult or for an 18 year old to be a child (or even a 25 year old), but in most cases, as far as I can discern, that's the way it is.


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## momea (Nov 22, 2001)

There was a great article in Brain, Child about the real stats re teen parenting - very enlightening - totally changed my opinion. i wish i had time to post a more meaningful post but for those super interested in topic could get back copy - hey maybe Mothering could run the article?


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Yes, I think Mothering should run a series of positive teen birth articles.


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## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Somewhere, hiding in a box, I have an issue of HipMama with an article on AP teen moms.









If you want to see an article in Mothering, you should write it! I can't say that enough times it seems. I've decided to write an article myself, but I'm not jinxing it until it's done.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Firstly: if people waited till they could afford a child, there wouldn't be any children born.

Secondly: when I was 18, I was pregnant and miscarried. Throughout the entire time, I was asked if I planned on finishing highschool and if I planned on putting the child in daycare while I did so.

It always seemed to take them back whenever I said "yes, last year."

When the asked the stupider question which essentially meant "huh?" I would answer with far more details - that I had graduated when I was 17. Just because that was a week before I turned 18... June babies, gotta love em.









There was nothing glorified about been a potential teen mom even though I was a high school grad. I would continually get pressured to finish school, talk to my parents about it, talk to the baby's father and more. I won't even go into how the adoption agency treated me when I lost the baby.







The baby's father had tried strangling me. I wasn't about to talk to him about it.

I hadn't planned on getting pregnant. I hadn't planned on having placenta previa or a placental abruption. I had found a family that was going to adopt though, so when shit hit the fan, I did everything I could to save it. Instead, I have some permanent problems because of it although trying to find that pinprick of blindness in my vision by an opthamoligist was a laugh.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I guess we can all remember Jesus, born to a teen mother in an unassisted birth and breastfed.

And some would say the spirit of Jesus is in every child, so I don't think my comparison is too extreme!


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## delighted.mama (Jan 29, 2003)

ITA agree with eilonwy on this one. Since she covered most of my thoughts on this topic, there isn't too much more for me to say except to add this:

I work for the criminal courts and we often receive various statistics on domestic violence, racial profiling, teenage crime, etc. etc. In a recent newsletter (last year I think) the statistics showed that 85% of the defendants coming through our courtrooms were children of teen mothers. Of those defendants (both men and women) 98% of them were abused some way. The article didn't say they were abused by their mothers, BTW, just abused. The article was written in order to support re-codifying the Juvenile Court Act as well as upgrading the Child Support division to give teen mothers more help. As it stands, the majority of teem mothers in the system, at least here in Illinois, do not have the support of the father. Many don't have support from family either. That leaves the State. WIC, welfare, etc. etc.

To my thinking, there is a definite link between teen parents being able to take care of their children and children getting lost in the shuffle as their teem parent tries to grow up. That's not to say that it can't happen at any age. I just think that it is more likely at a younger age, where you haven't finished school, you are emotionally immature and unsure of yourself, you are living with your parents, you are trying to "find yourself" and you are susceptible to peer pressure. More power to the teen mothers that are NOT like that and that overcome these obstacles!

ITA agree with all the other posts that teen mothers should not be castigated, but helped. I've seen some excellent outreach programs that are in place here that I wish would be more accessible to everyone everywhere.

Just my 2 Cents!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I think that the problems associated with teen parenting are due to poverty and lack of support, not simply the mother's age. Statistics in my county say the highest rates of child abuse occur to children whose mothers are age 15 to 25, yet no one is trying to prevent early 20s pregnancy and parenting.

And again, some things only look like abuse when they are done by teens. A teen mother who spanks is seen as abusive, a 30-year-old doing the same thing is seen as an intelligent parent who has made the discipline choice which works best for her. (At least, that's how the law looks at it; that's not what I think of her!)

Children who grow up in poverty are probably more likely than wealthy children to turn to crime, although wealthy kids can afford fancy laywers and might not have to spend time in jail the way poor kids do. Most teens don't have the kind of jobs that can support a family; they should be given as much financial assistance as is needed to help them and should also be offered the chance to go back to school and get a degree so they can get decent jobs. No one is willing to try this idea because we have this mentality that "those women" need to be punished for their "irresponsible behavior."

Lack of the bio-dad's support is also a huge problem. We don't hold teen "fathers" to the same standards as teen mothers. If a guy doesn't pay child support because he doesn't have a job or is in jail, we say "Well, what do you expect him to do? He doesn't have the money!" Why is that an excuse? There are organizations set up to help young fathers, ages 14 to 25, not have to pay so much child support.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Greaseball_
*I think that the problems associated with teen parenting are due to poverty and lack of support, not simply the mother's age. Statistics in my county say the highest rates of child abuse occur to children whose mothers are age 15 to 25, yet no one is trying to prevent early 20s pregnancy and parenting.*
Unfortunately, lots of people are trying to prevent early 20's parenting, as well as pregnancies among women living in poverty of any age. You're supposed to finish college and grad school first, didn't you know?







: I've been told many times that "Just because you're 21 doesn't mean you're old enough to have a baby, dear."







:

Quote:

*And again, some things only look like abuse when they are done by teens. A teen mother who spanks is seen as abusive, a 30-year-old doing the same thing is seen as an intelligent parent who has made the discipline choice which works best for her. (At least, that's how the law looks at it; that's not what I think of her!)*
And a teen mother who doesn't spank is seen as overly permissive, which many people say is the source of all teen parenting problems. They just can't win on the discipline issue, I agree with that.

Quote:

*
Children who grow up in poverty are probably more likely than wealthy children to turn to crime, although wealthy kids can afford fancy laywers and might not have to spend time in jail the way poor kids do. Most teens don't have the kind of jobs that can support a family; they should be given as much financial assistance as is needed to help them and should also be offered the chance to go back to school and get a degree so they can get decent jobs. No one is willing to try this idea because we have this mentality that "those women" need to be punished for their "irresponsible behavior."*
This is a fabulous idea. Too bad that the conservatives running the country think that the answer is just to tell kids not to have sex.







:

Quote:

*Lack of the bio-dad's support is also a huge problem. We don't hold teen "fathers" to the same standards as teen mothers. If a guy doesn't pay child support because he doesn't have a job or is in jail, we say "Well, what do you expect him to do? He doesn't have the money!" Why is that an excuse? There are organizations set up to help young fathers, ages 14 to 25, not have to pay so much child support.*
Around here, the opposite is true. Teen fathers are expected and encouraged to support their children both financially and emotionally. The Fatherhood Initiative is aimed at young men, and publishes pamphlets with such pearls of wisdom as "Remember your child support payments" and "Show respect for your children's mother, even if you don't feel it." Their slogan is "Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a dad." They also teach teenaged boys to use condoms, that "no means no" and other sexual health issues.

I would like to see a Fatherhood Initiative program aimed at boys who are not already fathers. For some reason, we expect girls to remain abstinant until marriage but we never seem to teach boys the same thing. I used to believe (as most people do) that boys were not capable of controlling their impulses, but talking to dh has long since changed my mind. We owe it to our sons to teach them self-control, and to teach them that their actions have consequences just like the actions of our daughters.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

You're supposed to finish college and grad school first, didn't you know?
And be well-established in a career, and own a home...but by the time I get there, I'll be 35 to 40, and then I'd get to hear about how I'm a "high risk pregnancy" and how I'm ruining my kids' lives because I'll be too old to play ball or dance with them and how I should be put in jail for refusing an amnio.

Sometimes you just can't win...I figure once you decide to become a mother there are people who are going to say you're doing it all wrong and it's because of "people like you" that things are so messed up. Since we can't please everyone, I say let's just do it our way!


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Greaseball_
*I guess we can all remember Jesus, born to a teen mother in an unassisted birth and breastfed.

And some would say the spirit of Jesus is in every child, so I don't think my comparison is too extreme!*
I'm sorry if I'm being nitpicky, but this is not a very inclusive statement. Couldn't let that one go, sorry.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

I'm sorry if I'm being nitpicky, but this is not a very inclusive statement. Couldn't let that one go, sorry.
You mean inclusive of those who don't have religious beliefs? That could be true.

I like that statement (which I see on buttons and bumper stickers, or a similar version of it) because the people who have those religious beliefs are often against premarital sex and teen parenting, yet look who turned out just fine because of it...


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## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

Okay, everyone go and read the article in Brain child.

Statistics show that actually, your chances of what your child ends up being (criminal or lawyer) has nothing to do with if you are a single parent or not; it is your socioeconomic status. Children of teen parents who are middle to upper-class have similar achievement levels as their peers born to parents in their 20s on up. Girls who have babies as teenagers statistically have caught up to their peers in education level and income level by the time they are 30.

And, working on a daily basis with pregnant women, teen thru mid 40s, I can tell you that I see this statistic borne out frequently. A couple of my favorite parents in our practice right now are teens. Just had their second child. They are WONDERFUL parents. And I have seen this over and over again. I have also seen 30 year old moms who are shitty parents.

So, back to the original topic; I don't think that the fact that they were teens should have ANY to do with the story. it wasn't a story about teen pregnancy. It was a story about an unexpected homebirth and a helpful neighbor. If the couple would have been in their late forties, and had conceived using fertility treatments, would it have been any more acceptable for people to write in saying that they shouldn't tell stories about these people, who are too damn old to be having babies? Or if the couple lived in a trailer, would it be alright for people to write in saying they shouldn't have run the story, because they were too damn poor to have a baby anyway, and they shouldn' be proud of the fact that they now have one more mouth to feed, when they are already on public assistance?

Seems very crass, doesn't it?

By the way, I am a child of a teenage mom. Thank goodness my parents raised me to be proud of who I am, not ashamed of the fact that my parents were irresponsible. I *think* I contribute positively to the world. Whose to say that this couple's child won't grow up to find a cure for HIV, or become a fabulous teacher, or a midwife, or some other professional who contributes positively to thousands of lives?

And good for the 16 year old boy who stuck around. How many fathers that age do that?


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## BoxOfRainMama (Jan 22, 2004)

I was a teen mom, and I was a good mom. I know people think those cant go hand-in-hand but they do. (and I was single to boot.... first truly responsible decision I made for my daughter was to end things with her biofather)
There are WONDERFUL teen moms out there.... many of them.

Being a teen mom was not something I ever dreamed about being. It wasn't ideal or cool, it just was.

I think passing judgment over these things is very sad.


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## damongeau (Mar 5, 2004)

I was one of "those girls"; 16 when my son was born. The thing that bothered me most at the time was that I had made the decision to keep him, and be his mother in fact, not just in name, but nobody (except my mother) would allow me to be excited. I was "supposed" to be ashamed, and I was not expected to look forward to his birth. I had to be happy about him behind closed doors.

Dont get me wrong, it was a hard time. I was young, single, still in high school, and had a step father who didnt speak to me until my son was two. But I had my plans...I breastfed, co-slept, and loved my son more than anything in the world.

Six years later, I had my daughter. By this time I was married and everything was wonderful. I didnt realise until then just how bad it hurt to have to hide my excitement for him. With Bryn I could just revel in the fact that I would have a baby soon; with Ian I was supposed to hang my head.

If you know a young mom who plans to keep her baby, the most supportive thing you can do is be the person she can be happy around. This will also put you in a position to be a wonderful mentor to a brave young woman who will need help (as all moms do, regardless of age).

Sorry, I know that was long but this is something I feel passionatly about


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

What a wonderful post, damongeau!!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Yes, it's a sad situation when no one else is celebrating. I tell all pregnant women congratulations and how it's great they're having a baby, hoping it will be a nice change for those who just hear about how much of a burden to society it will be.

It's also sad how when a teen has a miscarriage, it's seen as a blessing and no one grieves with her.


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Greaseball_
*You mean inclusive of those who don't have religious beliefs? That could be true.*
Ummmm, no, I meant it's not inclusive of non-Christians to say all children have the spirit of Jesus in them.







:


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## BoxOfRainMama (Jan 22, 2004)

OY!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Well, at the risk of getting further off topic...

I added that line as a "comeback" to christians who shudder at the thought of an "illegitimate" child of a teenager being compared to Jesus.

I'm not of that faith, FWIW.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thing...


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## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

I'm not Christian, and I think that is a nice sentiment. I mean, Jesus is an important person to Christians, right (as well as Muslims, I'm not sure about Jews)? So, if someone who is Christian thinks that all children have the spirit of Jesus in them, I take that to mean that that person thinks that all children are sacred and should be treated as such, and that their religion backs that sentiment.

Everyday at work I look at a plaque that says "All children are a gift from God." Doesn't bother me at all. I think all children *are* a gift, all children should be cherished as such, and that is just a Christian way of expressing that sentiment. Just like a Muslim might say a gift from Allah. It wouldn't bother me. But that is just me. I'm just trying to see the sentiment behind the comment; I think that comment was just saying that, if you are Christian, it is well to be aware that Jesus, this person most sacred and central to your spiritual beliefs, was the child of a poor teenage mom. Reminding fellow Christians that each child is a blessing, and each child has the potential for greatness. At least, that is how I interpreted it. (And I agree with the sentiment, if not the details of why exactly each child is sacred.) Greaseball I'm sure will correct me if I am mistaken in my interpretation!


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Gotcha...thanks for clearing it up. I wasn't offended, just as I'm not offended when people ask my daughter if she's excited about seeing the Easter Bunny, but I did feel the need to speak up.

Back on topic...gee, I started this thread...and it sure is getting long!!!


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## BoxOfRainMama (Jan 22, 2004)

And I was just being silly.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Lori - yep, that was right!

It bothers me that so many of the arguments against teen or single parenting are religious ones, as if that is supposed to mean something to those of us who don't have those beliefs.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Greaseball_
*It's also sad how when a teen has a miscarriage, it's seen as a blessing and no one grieves with her.







*
Or if there were life threatening complications that nearly killed mom, they are belittled or just plain ignored if she survived but her baby didn't.

Or her parents, upon finding out she miscarried because she wasn't living at home, instead of being supportive call her tramp and worse.

And the father acts all high and mighty and glad she miscarried.

And so called "friends" crack stupid jokes about the miscarriage. Jokes that they think are funny, but instead make her cry.

Or how the doctors involved say that she won't make milk but the day she gets home, her breasts fill and she leaks for the next year yet they do nothing to stop it.

Or her ob calls her up in the hospital and demands to know why she missed the appointment when she's recoperating in the maternity ward. The same OB who didn't think her bleeding was that serious when she was passing clots the size of a pink pearl eraser during an internal exam.

Or the same day she comes home, she gets yelled at by a neighbour and beaten up by her roommate over something stupid like a car parked in the wrong spot when the car doesn't even belong to anyone in the house.

Or the day after she gets thrown into a psyc ward because she's deeply mourning and hysterical - like any loving mother would - and the doctors there ignore the re-traumatization that occurs when she walks into her "group therapy session" and finds out that the one assigned to her case is 7 months pregnant! Or when she's in her ward bed she gets told over the PA to get out and quit being anti-social when she's exhausted from blood loss and the birth and more and all she wants to do is rest and sleep.

Or when she gets told off by her house mom for going AMA because she had been in the same clothes for 4 days, wasn't allowed to wear hospital clothes, had soiled herself because the hospital hadn't given her any pads to use, hadn't gotten any rest while there, and more of the above happening. Said house mom made excuses about how she'd be there later that day with more clothes, but had been saying that since the day she went into the ward.

Or ends up with a post partum fever that caused seizures but the hospital nurse, when she called up, said to stay at home and take care of it there and not to bother the full ER....

Yes, that was my experience being a pregnant teen mom who lost her baby. And that was just the first week.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I used to lurk on a board for teen/young parents, and so many of the members told stories like that. Others were told during ultrasounds that "It's not too late to have an abortion" and they also weren't allowed to look at the screen or hear anything about the baby. Also, their partners were not allowed in the room, even if they were married (not that that should have anything to do with the decision! What a stupid rule!).

When I was pg with #1, I was 22 but looked very young. The nurses at the birth center were giving me pamphlets about how I could take care of myself as a pregnant teen, and how after I had the baby I needed to be sure to say "no" to men more often.







: They would also not allow my dh to be with me at appointments.

Then I switched to an OB practice and they refused to acknowledge that I was married. At every visit they asked me if "dad lived in the home." I requested a copy of my records and they say I am single. When going back for gyn visits, they would ask "Where's the baby?" and when I said "Home with my husband; her father" they would say "Oh, you found someone to take care of her?" And they would refer to him as "The father of the baby" and at every visit would ask if I was still with him and if I had any other sex partners.









Not that any of this is as bad as Mamid's story, of course!


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## BoxOfRainMama (Jan 22, 2004)

Oh Mamid that is so horribe you had to go through all of that. I am so sorry.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Thanks you two.

Most of that time is a blurr because of the post partum fever I got 10 days later. I remember it being 104.9 and asking to be taken to the hospital, but my roommates were too busy to be bothered to drive me. At one point, I remember reaching for a cup above the stove and I fainted or something and ended up breaking house mom's expensive heirloom tea pot. At least I think that's what her daughter was yelling to me about when she was shaking me and beating me. That's when I called the hospital and the nurse (male) told me to stay there.

I left that place within a month and spent time on the streets. Anything was better than living with them anymore.

I tried to get councelling, but everyone that I talked to was of the opinion that it was a good thing that I had miscarried. Everyone but the "abortion alternatives" group I had contacted. Did they bother to give me after care for the miscarriage?

The only people who really mourned with me was a friend and her co-worker. She, because she loved babies (not her own of course.







). Her coworker had talked to his wife and the two of them were going to adopt my baby and let me have all the contact I wanted. I found them the day I went into the hospital to start the miscarriage.

At least I was smart enough to refuse the mini-C the er doc wanted me to have. If I hadn't, my other children would have been sections. Or at least my son would have been because by then, the anti-vbac movement was in full swing.

My unsexed baby, thought to have been a boy, lived for two more days. February 11, 1991. Just before midnight. The stupid idiot doc that was on duty in the maternity ward had left even though he knew I was in labour. And he came charging into my room after the birth - a good 20 minutes later - gloved up, reached up and yanked out the placenta and yelled at me for being inconsiderate because he could have been at home.

I left my baby the dignity of not being disected to find out what went wrong. Placenta Previa and abruption after a car accident were enough of an answer. But they stuck him in formaldehyde because they didn't think I wanted to see him again before I left the hospital.

He was alive when he was born. I felt him kick me and the nurse grabbed him, shoved him under a bunch of blue yuk pads and he died, alone. Even though I was screaming at them to save him.

It still hurts even after all these years....


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Dammit. Now I'm crying. I'm as pregnant with my fourth, our second, as I was when I found out that I was pregnant with him....
The one I lost will always be my first.

Quote:

When I was pg with #1, I was 22 but looked very young. The nurses at the birth center were giving me pamphlets about how I could take care of myself as a pregnant teen, and how after I had the baby I needed to be sure to say "no" to men more often.
When I was pregnant with our DS, my DP was working, so I was looking for resources for me to use. One place I stopped off at, the lay councellor there offered a teen pre-birth parenting and labour course.

I laughed my head off with that and thanked her for thinking that I was that young. "Oh, but its for girls and women up to 25." That's when I told her thanks, but no thanks. I wouldn't meet the criteria. She asked why and I told her. I was 5 years too old for it!


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## BoxOfRainMama (Jan 22, 2004)

My grandmother told me how sad it was that I got pregnant so young and unmarried when there are so many married couples who cant have babies.... so supportive eh?

I guess the only good to come out of these stories we all have, is that we know how much these things hurt... and would never project any of these messages to any young pregnant girls that might someday come into our lives.

"It doesn't matter who you love, or how you love, but that you love" ~Rod McKuen

Pamela Roth


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

My grandmother told me how sad it was that I got pregnant so young and unmarried when there are so many married couples who cant have babies.... so supportive eh?
So she thought that if only you didn't have children, all these older infertile married women would suddenly be blessed with them?







:


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## mamaley (Mar 18, 2002)

Mamid, I am so sorry you went through that. I feel so passionate about these things, and I felt so angry for you reading your post.

Quote:

If you know a young mom who plans to keep her baby, the most supportive thing you can do is be the person she can be happy around. This will also put you in a position to be a wonderful mentor to a brave young woman who will need help (as all moms do, regardless of age).
Yes!! I was in a social work college course, where the childless instructor was explaining how to respond when someone tells you they are pregnant (not even in a client/counselor setting but just in personal situations). I told the class that if someone is telling you, especially a teen, the best thing you can do is to congratulate them, for the reasons you said. She argued with me, of course.

Quote:

Six years later, I had my daughter. By this time I was married and everything was wonderful. I didnt realise until then just how bad it hurt to have to hide my excitement for him. With Bryn I could just revel in the fact that I would have a baby soon; with Ian I was supposed to hang my head.
It feels weird, doesn't it? I was 20 and unmarried with my first, and while I became excited over time, there were people who were very rude to me. With my second, we were married and financially secure, and it was a totally different experience. Other than, of course, the looks i got in grocery stores--I look very young. But screw them!

]


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...threadid=48180
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&threadid=5566
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...threadid=54085
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...threadid=66559

I thought some of you might be interested in the other threads on this topic.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Mamid







That's really horrible to have had to go through. I'm sorry that no one saw fit to treat you like a human being.


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

I'm curious-
Have any of you "gotten over" the hurt from the way you were treated...or is it always there?

I'd be interested in hearing how you achieved healing, because I find that the wounds from how I was treated tear open more often than I would like, and sometimes, at unexpected things. It's always there, lurking in the background, and coloring my perceptions and reactions.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Mamid, I am deeply hurt reading about the treatment you recieved. I am so sorry you had to live thru that. I am also deeply sorry about your loss.

When I was pregnant with my daughter I was 20 but looked about 16 so I got a lot of ugly stares and such. When I went to the clinic for my app. I had to see a counselor as well and she always asked me what kind of birth control I was going to use after the baby, I mean she asked me about five times per visit. She also always asked me if my boyfriend (father of my dd and now husband) was abusive or on drugs. She seemed so afraid I was going to get pregnant again, I think if she could of shot me up with birth control she would have.
I agree that you should always congratulate a pregnant woman no matter what her age. Teenager/young moms need more love not more judgement!


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Sheacoby_
*Mamid, I am deeply hurt reading about the treatment you recieved. I am so sorry you had to live thru that. I am also deeply sorry about your loss.*
Its hard. This was the first year ever where I didn't have a cake on his birthdeathday. The next few weeks of my pregnancy are always the worst. If I spot, I go into hysterics. So I'm doing my best not to think about it.

Quote:

*
When I was pregnant with my daughter I was 20 but looked about 16 so I got a lot of ugly stares and such. When I went to the clinic for my app. I had to see a counselor as well and she always asked me what kind of birth control I was going to use after the baby, I mean she asked me about five times per visit. She also always asked me if my boyfriend (father of my dd and now husband) was abusive or on drugs. She seemed so afraid I was going to get pregnant again, I think if she could of shot me up with birth control she would have.
I agree that you should always congratulate a pregnant woman no matter what her age. Teenager/young moms need more love not more judgement!*
I'm 31 and I get the "what birth control" and "is he abusive?" questions at any apointment I go to. Makes me mad. And right now I don't want to see any providers because I have a golf ball sized bruise on my calf that neither of us have any clue how it got there but if they saw it, DP would be thrown in jail faster than you could say "Wait a minute!" because there's a no tolerance policy here.









I have been told over and over by OBs that because I have PCOS I'd need clomid to conceive. My son's "proof" of that. But both my daughter and this one are _*"surprise!"*_ just as the one I lost was as well. Could I have gotten below the threshhold of sterility with the weight I've recently lost? From 245 to 228? Makes one think that maybe the PCOS diagnosis is also a bunch of bullshavic that doctors tell women in order to not actually have to find out what is going wrong with their reproduction!


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

I don't think it will ever go away totally

I was like the above poster-I couldn't be happy. Not just because I was young -but because after two yrs of marriage -I was not only having a baby but going to be a single mother due to a divorce

I should be ashamed on both counts. And the funny thing well not funny but odd, the people in the agencies I had to seek help in (humiliating enough) didn't bat an eye at age and pg. But when they found out that exdh had left me they acted like I had the plague!! Like it might rub off on them and their dhs would flee...

when i had dd and her brothers it came back again,since things were so very different
and that child will be 17 tomorrow so it has been in my mind quite a bit

Mamid -((HUGS)) that infuriates me and breaks my heart at the same time


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

I remember talking to my mother once about my miscarriage. This was not the phone conversation where she called me a tramp and more, but another talk where she tried to get me to pity her. She said I wasn't supposed to be an only and that she had two miscarriages....

But it was the way she made the massive one I had out to be nothing more than just a bit of tissue I passed. Tissue??? A kicking tumbling 19 week fetus was tissue???? Passing blood clots the size of my fist up projectiling up to 10 feet away just from the violence of the miscarriage was nothing??????









I've also had tons of early pregnancy losses - <9w. Those ones were either the hpt was just turning +, the blood test was "borderline," or my period was soooo late, I'd go in to get checked and the doc would test me and it'd come up neg and the next day I'd have what was the start of a longer and heavier for even my normal cycles. Up to 2 weeks, although I've had two that were longer and my family doc at the time was sure I was pregnant. I just had one in November. Nothing that serious. I had gotten my "normal" period but on day 5, I passed a weird triangle shaped clot that had a bubble in it that when it exploded smelled like amniotic fluid and there was what looked like an embryo. My period slowed to almost nothing andstopped the next day. Completely and totally. So, of course, I immediately got pregnant again. 16 weeks so far. *crosses fingers*

My mother also told me of all the trials and tribulations she had when she was a "teen mother." Excuse me, but she had family around her, a husband, and had turned 20 when she had me. Sure, it was 4 weeks to the day, but still, she had far more support than she ever gave me. She didn't get that much flak because she was married. Half the reason why I think she had me was to control my father - the carrot at the end of the stick thang. The other half is that she had me so she could skip finishing high school (grade 13 in Ontario) and go straight into university as a "mature student." There's no other way she would have gotten in. She lied about getting straight As through school. I know. I found her report card!

*I* did graduate from highschool and had even set it up for me to take a "grade 13" here to raise my grades for university. Shit happened. I left for the states (dad's american) and grandpa died. Within three months, I got pregnant by an abusive boyfriend.

You know... if my mother had agreed to sign the forms for me to get a student loan for the trade school I had been accepted in sans letter, sans interview, just a piece of my artwork that another applicant was carrying with him, I would have never gotten pregnant with my lost one or my DD. And probably not my DS either. Or met my DP or had a shit load of the trauma that has happened to me occur.

I so love my moat between where I live and where she was last known to be.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Mamid_
*I'm 31 and I get the "what birth control" and "is he abusive?" questions at any apointment I go to. Makes me mad. And right now I don't want to see any providers because I have a golf ball sized bruise on my calf that neither of us have any clue how it got there but if they saw it, DP would be thrown in jail faster than you could say "Wait a minute!" because there's a no tolerance policy here.








*
I got these questions too the first few visits, but now I have a different doctor; one who's known me since I was a little kid, and who knows how my family is. In many places in the US they are required to ask these questions, especially of women who are living in poverty, but of all pregnant women regardless of age or marital status. Why? Because in the US, the number one cause of death for pregnant women is homicide at the hands of their partner. Very scary statistic, but true.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I work as a grant writer for an agency that provides a home visiting counseling program for teen moms. The program is "strengths-based"--that is, the social workers assume that every parent has strengths and needs support to be the best parent possible.

When the program was first created, about five years ago, our application reflected a totally different point of view--the need statement of the proposal was all about how teen moms are immature and basically suck as parents, blah blah blah.








But now, we have a group of home visitors who are totally positive and supportive. I love them. I go to them whenever I have a parenting question. They really believe in the moms and dads they work with, they support breastfeeding, they will go along to doctors' appointments.

They have to be that way. The whole rest of society is arrayed against these young women and their partners.

When I came to work here, I never thought one way or the other about whether teen moms would be good moms. I was so ignorant! I was friendly with a woman who is a therapist. She had been leading support groups for infertile women, and she said something like, "I think it's just terrible that these girls who are high on crack







can have babies by accident and these loving moms can't." whoah. That bothered me so much, and I hadn't even started working here yet--I didn't even know how really good the moms in our program actually are. I just thought "Sh*t, that's the most classist, unreflective, disgusting thing I've ever heard." I'm not friends with her anymore.


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## aka_angelz (Mar 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ravin*
I do think the bias against teenage moms in our culture is just that--cultural. If given proper training, support, and preparation--especially support!--they'll be fine. It's our culture's extremely prolonged expectation of childish behavior and of later of absolute independence that's the problem.

i am so glad to see that not everyone views teen mothers as being inadequate mothers,i thought everyone out there viewed *us* as failures,i mean i knew people looked down on *us*.But i agree with what you women have posted,about supporting young mothers.I had my first daughter at age 17 and my second at age 19.I am doing whatever i can possible to take care of my daughters and yes i am living with my parents,and they are supporting me so much in taking care of my daughters.But im going to school(heald college for medical office administration)and when i finish which will be soon,im going to get a job-pay rent-and go BACK to school to become an optometrist-just because i had my kids at a young age doesnt mean i have no goals!and that i will not succeed in life.actually my kids give me more motivation than ever,being a single mom gives me more motivation because i know taht i will be the one providing for them...well rambling on neways back to the topic.I think taht any/and every birth should be celebrated,it shouldnt matter the age of the mother/father.what matters should be that the child was born healthy and that the parents were happy


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## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

>>>>>>>>>>I'm 31 and I get the "what birth control" and "is he abusive?" questions at any apointment I go to. Makes me mad. <<<<<<<<<<<

We can't win sometimes. For years, the medical profession was blasted for ignoring abuse. Now it is standard to ask if a woman feels safe in her environment and if she is in an abusive relationship; just like it is standard to ask what form of birth control she uses and if she exercises every day, and when the first day of her last menstrual period was. Sorry if you feel like it is invasive; aren't you happy that someone cares though? Like Eilonwy said, and as I find from asking these questions, the number of women who are abused or feel unsafe in their environment is surprisingly, sadly high. What sort of well woman appointment would it be if we ignored that aspect? Don't take it personally; it does't just happen because you look young, it is asked of everyone.


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