# I don't want to change her every hour! Suggestions?



## atpeace (Apr 17, 2006)

I'm new to cloth diapering and need some advice about increasing absorbancy, especially overnight. My daughter is almost one month old (!).
We use flats so far, since the prefolds are too big and bulky. We use bummis covers as well. We've never had a leak, so I'm not worried about that, but I hate keeping her in a wet diaper (like you can do with disposables), so I'm changing it every hour or two, literally. Is there something to use to pull the urine away from her body, so I can change her less often, especially at night when I don't want to wake her up? I don't want to give up CDing, but disposables just seem to last longer at night...

any suggestions?


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## beansavi (Jun 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *atpeace* 
I'm new to cloth diapering and need some advice about increasing absorbancy, especially overnight. My daughter is almost one month old (!).
We use flats so far, since the prefolds are too big and bulky. We use bummis covers as well. We've never had a leak, so I'm not worried about that, but I hate keeping her in a wet diaper (like you can do with disposables), so I'm changing it every hour or two, literally. Is there something to use to pull the urine away from her body, so I can change her less often, especially at night when I don't want to wake her up? I don't want to give up CDing, but disposables just seem to last longer at night...

any suggestions?

I cloth diapered all three of my kids (2 boys, one girl). They slept in flannel dipes with wool coverings. With the wool, some of the pee actually evaporates overnight and the baby's skin can breathe.

I remember (with my first child) having to get used to the fact that the cloth, once wet, would be next to his skin all night. But because I had friends who had used cloth before me, I went ahead.

Everything was fine! I think it's a sort of mental shift we have to make because we've been conditioned by disposeables.

Infant pee is mellow and mild, and babies have slept in some sort of "pee diaper" since the dawn of man. *It will be okay.* Enjoy your sleep. You need that most of all.


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## Brilliantmama (Sep 28, 2006)

you can use fleece liners. It gives the "stay-dry" effect and wicks the moisture into the cotton (or whatever) diaper. That is why lots of people love fleece lined pockets like fuzzibunz.

FWIW I just cut up rectangles in the right size to fit my girl (about 11" x 5") and put them in between her and the prefold.


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## susieinms (Aug 11, 2005)

I agree with beansavi, it is a mental shift and your baby will be fine unless s/he has very acidic urine. I tried the fleece for a while and I had more problems with rash then because detergent sticks to synthetics so much more than cotton. Every child is diff. I would just make sure that you have enough absorbancy for the night and let your baby sleep. You get some sleep too, mama.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I really believe that every baby has a right to not be covered in their own waste, even if it feels dry due to chemicals.

-Angela


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## quietserena (Apr 24, 2006)




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## cchrissyy (Apr 22, 2003)

we have fleece-topped doublers. In your case I'd just lay that small extra layer so the fleece touches her skin.


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## miziki (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beansavi* 
Infant pee is mellow and mild, and babies have slept in some sort of "pee diaper" since the dawn of man.

Trying to say this as gently and respectfully as possible... this is a common cultural mistake we make, to think this way. But it is untrue that babies sleeping in pee is normal. It's not.

Since the dawn of man (~150,000 yrs ago?), *parents have taken their babies to the potty from birth* at all hours of the day or night. Most babies signal quite clearly from the moment they come earthside that pee/poop is on its way - it's just that culturally, this is a lost art, so our babies stop signalling over time. We parents aren't told that there's an alternative to the diaper-train-your-kid-for-2-to-3-yrs-then-potty-train-them schtick (kind of how breastfeeding became a lost art until LLL started to revive it 50 yrs ago). We're just told to choose cloth or disposable. But there *is* a thrid option, a very wonderful one at that - elimination communication or EC. Moms, dads, siblings, grandparents can all do it, and babies love it too.

Only very, very, very recently (like *maybe* the last 75 yrs) has diapering gained such popularity, and only in industrialized countries. Our great grandparents pottied their babies - chamber pots, remember those? Also used for babies, day and night. Before the advent of automatic & personal washers/driers, I promise you that moms pottied their babies instead of going through mounds and mounds of cloth diapers. It was called "holding your baby out" or over a potty bowl or other appropriate receptacle. DH's 96 yr old grandma was telling us about how she did it with her 5 kids! Even now, 1/2 the world doesn't diaper and average "potty training" age is around 12-18 months, so don't be fooled about "babies sleeping in pee." Diapering is not our natural state and babies don't prefer it!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I really believe that every baby has a right to not be covered in their own waste, even if it feels dry due to chemicals.

Couldn't agree more, Angela.









Parents used to, and many parents in other cultures still do, know how to look for and respond to elimination signs (a particular type of cry/wriggliness/fussiness, bearing down, looking spaced out) just as we learn to recognize and respond to hunger signs (rooting, sucking on hands). There's a resurgence of this beautiful practice of EC - there are even EC boards here on Mothering as well as non-profit, local support meetings through DiaperFreeBaby. Come on over and check them out.

Pottying your baby at night is fabulous - my DH took the initiative to offer the potty to our babies at night (after we'd been ECing during the day), and it turned out that the first time they woke up, it was to pee, not to nurse! A very clear signal that I had been misinterpreting all along! Imagine how amazed I was to find out why my babies seemed to want to nurse at night but would latch on and kind of just snack but not eat nor fall back to sleep well, waking every 5, 10, 15 minutes to re-latch on... it was because they weren't actually hungry - they were waking due to the pressure of a full bladder, and I was essentially offering them another drink instead of responding to their need to pee! Sure, the breast was temporarily comforting, but the need (to pee) was going unmet. We *ALL* slept much better after DH figured out the nighttime needs of our babies: 1st waking was to pee (they'd fall back into a nice sleep while finishing peeing), 2nd waking was to nurse.

Anyway... I really appreciated hearing about EC with DD, our first child (didn't know about EC until she was 8/9 mos, we'd been doing the typical diapering thing up to that point and I was trying to switch to cloth when I read about it and decided to give it a try). Our family, grandparents included, love EC so much and had such a positive experience with it w/ DD that there was no question we'd start from birth with DS, our 2nd child. And man, I knew newborns were amazing, but I had no idea how much they can actually tell us if we know what to listen for! Consider giving EC a try - you will not have to worry so much about the nighttime diaper changes because you'll come to know your baby's nighttime pee routine, and you'll probably all sleep better at night once your baby knows you're offering the potty. Many ECed babies pee only 1 time at night or are dry through the night until early morning, when they have a big morning wee on the pot!







:


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## Brilliantmama (Sep 28, 2006)

Very good point miziki. And well said. It is easy to forget that people have been doing it very differently since the first baby of man. It is easy to get caught up in the fun of diapering and forget that there is another option.


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## alreilly (Jul 10, 2006)

Just a note to let you know what we do.... our first son is now 6 weeks old and we use a combination of prefolds with bummis covers and happy heineys pocket diapers. We change him pretty often during the day - always before a feeding (he eats every 2 - 3 hours) and then inbetween when he cries (he hates to be wet/dirty).

However at night we only change him when he gets up - I never ever wake him. So when he gets up we change him and then he eats again. After a feeding at night he falls back asleep and we repeat again when he gets up. He sleeps anywhere from 2 to 4 hours now.

The only rash he's had so far was from the disposables diapers/wipes we used in the beginning (when his belly button and penis were still healing) and for that we used Aquaphor (that cleared it right up). Now we just sprinkle a little cornstarch baby powder every once and a while when we use the prefolds.

I have found that his skin is wetter with the prefolds and drier with the HH diapers (due to the fleece) so a combination of those during the day/night has worked well.


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

We use fitteds with Wool Longies at night. Little Pee's have a chance to evaporate, and big ones don't leak. It works great for our kids who sleep for 6-8 hours per night.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Allowing a child to sit in urine is deplorable. Diapers should be promptly changed regardless of what the clock says. There's no "getting used to it." Can YOU get used to sleeping in your own pee? I can't.


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## my3punkins2005 (Apr 8, 2006)

ok instead of pushing EC at you ..i would suggest and easy solution just buy some fleece and cut liners or buy some fleece liners..they wick the wetness away..for nightime VBSN work wonderful with a wool cover..I could not imagine wakeing up all thru the night to stick a 1 month old on a potty seat????

I never had the desire to carry around a potty ..and i wonder at statics that say other countries potty train faster(I think the child decideds when they WANT to go on the potty on a reagular basis)..what countries and what economical backrounds train faster? and what do they consider potty trained ? I think that if you want to prove/push something you can ALWAY's find a statistic out there to back you up


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

We use disposables over night. That's because there's ALWAYS a rash in the morning otherwise for use though in cloth. I don't understand it, but that's what we do. We do use fleece liners or... you can make fleece pockets.. Karen has a tutorial on how to do it. It's really easy. Here's the link.
Karen's Diapering Pages
Best of luck!


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## mimid (Dec 29, 2004)

Also, keep in mind that you have to do what works for your family. My girls think it is play time when they get undressed and changed so I use hemp and wool overnight or a HH and then change when they wake up at 6:30, if there is any sort of dampness or a poop. I just can't stay up and play with each of them when they get up and dh has to work and I have no one else to help. Same problem with EC. What do I do when 2 have to go at the same time? If I can tell they are going, they get taken to the changing room, diaper removed and they finish, get cleaned up and off they go. But I cannot tell you how many times I have had 2 or 3 poops at the same time or right together.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

I find as they get a bit older, the pee less at night. My DD is 3 months now and usually has one pee a night and then in the early a.m. If you can stick it out for a bit longer, it will likely get easier with time.

Also, have you tried changing her in her sleep? At 1 month old, neither of my babies really woke up during a diaper change, they may have opened an eye, but went right back to sleep and slept sounder after they were dry. In fact, my 3 month old DD still barely wakes during her changes. Now, she does sleep beside me and other than lifting her legs, I don't have to disturb her position during sleep, so that may make a difference.


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## weliveintheforest (Sep 3, 2005)

I agree with Miziki, but I am a zombie if I potty my dd every time she pees at night. Instead I use a fitted with wool, or coverless and just put a new one after every pee, which I can do without fully waking dd.

Motherease sells stay dry liners, and doublers with the stay dry liner http://motherease.com/database/scrip...f986b01&Loc=US
You might be able to get some in the trading post.
We have a couple of swaddlebees pockets, and those and fuzzi bunz both have a dry feeling even when wet.


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## susieinms (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Allowing a child to sit in urine is deplorable. Diapers should be promptly changed regardless of what the clock says. There's no "getting used to it." Can YOU get used to sleeping in your own pee? I can't.


I don't get up and change my mama-cloth in the middle of the night. By morning it is soaking, but I sleep quite well despite the wetness. I don't use fleece either.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *susieinms* 
I don't get up and change my mama-cloth in the middle of the night. By morning it is soaking, but I sleep quite well despite the wetness. I don't use fleece either.

Good point.


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## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

If you are using flat I think it would be expected to change very frequently, especially with a baby that young. They are peeing machines (and eating machines which is directly related







) at that age.

If you want something for overnight I'd recommend two different things.

It might depend on the build of you baby so perhaps purchase both used before making a big investment.

We use fuzzi bunz pockets heavily stuffed for night time. Other pockets would work as well but really only those with leg casing IMO (look at the photos of the legs on fuzzibunz.com to see what that looks like). FB worked best for us though.

The other option that worked really well for us until he grew big enough for the FB to fit well were fitted diapers completely lined in microfleece with a very thick soaker over the top. The diaper and the soaker were huge! It worked really well though. It was comically huge in fact!

Sometimes you have to try a few things to find out what works best for you. Start with used things and buy only a few, if something doesn't work then resell it and buy more of what does. Then once you know you can be done with it (unless you just enjoy shopping!).

For day time use you might try adding a doubler so that the diaper will hold mroe pee. However, I always change when wet (insofar as I am able at that moment to notice its wet and free to change the diaper, /exception) so perhaps you might just have to get used to the routine of changing frequently. I'm sure you baby will appreciate being dry and safe in a cloth diaper!


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## PGNPORTLAND (Jul 9, 2005)

I use one disposable a night. I hate to do it after shelling out for beautiful cloth diapers but they are the only thing that works for us. I have tried fuzzibuns, fleece, hhs, all of it and she wakes because she is wet and once I change her she wants to play. disposables allow both of us to sleep all night and so that is what we do. We co sleep and my dd nurses throughout the night so maybe at some point when she doesn't nurse as much I can do cloth at night.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *susieinms* 
I don't get up and change my mama-cloth in the middle of the night. By morning it is soaking, but I sleep quite well despite the wetness. I don't use fleece either.

Just cuz you are OK with it doesn't mean others are. I wouldn't be. It's not right to let a baby sit in pee. Period.


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## atpeace (Apr 17, 2006)

Wow, thanks for all your replies, wise mamas. I love all the suggestions, and will research each one more and decide what works for us...

I know a little about ECing, and must admit that I was very intrigued when I read about it. I'll have to check out the forum around here. Thanks to those who recommended it!

All your other strategies and suggestions are valuable to me too. Thank you, I appreciate everyone sharing. Keep the tips coming if anyone has any more.


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## melissel (Jun 30, 2004)

There are several good nighttime diapers on the market--Very Baby Simply Nights gets us through the night. Firefly Diapers makes a good nighttime diaper, and First Class Baby does too, I believe.

With my first, only Huggies Overnites got her through the night. With this one, the VBSNs are doing the trick--for now!


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## melissel (Jun 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Just cuz you are OK with it doesn't mean others are. I wouldn't be. It's not right to let a baby sit in pee. Period.

And just because you're not OK with it doesn't make it wrong. You may feel that it does, but that alone does not make it so. But thanks for sharing kindly and constructively with the OP!


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## amym72 (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Just cuz you are OK with it doesn't mean others are. I wouldn't be. It's not right to let a baby sit in pee. Period.

I was going to look into EC but don't know now, if everyone is as militant about it as you seem to be, I don't think it would be the supportive type of board I was looking for. Your posts seems rather hostile.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I'm really not trying to be hostile, truely! I am sorry if it appears that way. It IS wrong though! I feel just as sorry for you if you think sitting in your won waste is alright, but you're a big girl...a baby has no choice. It is mind boggleing to me that everyone isn't as grossed out by this as I am. Changing diapers overnight need not be a big event, just bring a diaper & wipes, etc to bed with you, that's what I do...I then put the dirty dipe on a cloth on the floor & pick everything up in the AM. And if you think EC is the way to go that might well be the best option for you...though I assume EC'ers use diapers overnight...? I don't know, I don't EC.


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## sedalbj (Mar 17, 2004)

I don't claim to be the perfect mom who always changes the cloth cd, but I like to think of it this way (it gets my butt out of bed, or off the chair). If my aging grandma was incontinent and living in a nursing facility, I would be beyond pissed off if the nursing staff didn't change her diaper very regularly. Especially if she wasn't able to tell them she was wet due to dementia or something. No one should have to live that way, a 1 mth old baby or a 95 year old lady, ya know?


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## beansavi (Jun 26, 2005)

Hey there, Miziki,

I gave my heartfelt advice based on my own experience over the last twelve years and three kids.

Just like women have been doing since the dawn of mankind...

I think you need to relax and be nice to people you don't know.

Happy holidays,
Beansavi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *miziki* 
Trying to say this as gently and respectfully as possible... this is a common cultural mistake we make, to think this way. But it is untrue that babies sleeping in pee is normal. It's not.

Since the dawn of man (~150,000 yrs ago?), *parents have taken their babies to the potty from birth* at all hours of the day or night. Most babies signal quite clearly from the moment they come earthside that pee/poop is on its way - it's just that culturally, this is a lost art, so our babies stop signalling over time. We parents aren't told that there's an alternative to the diaper-train-your-kid-for-2-to-3-yrs-then-potty-train-them schtick (kind of how breastfeeding became a lost art until LLL started to revive it 50 yrs ago). We're just told to choose cloth or disposable. But there *is* a thrid option, a very wonderful one at that - elimination communication or EC. Moms, dads, siblings, grandparents can all do it, and babies love it too.

Only very, very, very recently (like *maybe* the last 75 yrs) has diapering gained such popularity, and only in industrialized countries. Our great grandparents pottied their babies - chamber pots, remember those? Also used for babies, day and night. Before the advent of automatic & personal washers/driers, I promise you that moms pottied their babies instead of going through mounds and mounds of cloth diapers. It was called "holding your baby out" or over a potty bowl or other appropriate receptacle. DH's 96 yr old grandma was telling us about how she did it with her 5 kids! Even now, 1/2 the world doesn't diaper and average "potty training" age is around 12-18 months, so don't be fooled about "babies sleeping in pee." Diapering is not our natural state and babies don't prefer it!

Couldn't agree more, Angela.









Parents used to, and many parents in other cultures still do, know how to look for and respond to elimination signs (a particular type of cry/wriggliness/fussiness, bearing down, looking spaced out) just as we learn to recognize and respond to hunger signs (rooting, sucking on hands). There's a resurgence of this beautiful practice of EC - there are even EC boards here on Mothering as well as non-profit, local support meetings through DiaperFreeBaby. Come on over and check them out.

Pottying your baby at night is fabulous - my DH took the initiative to offer the potty to our babies at night (after we'd been ECing during the day), and it turned out that the first time they woke up, it was to pee, not to nurse! A very clear signal that I had been misinterpreting all along! Imagine how amazed I was to find out why my babies seemed to want to nurse at night but would latch on and kind of just snack but not eat nor fall back to sleep well, waking every 5, 10, 15 minutes to re-latch on... it was because they weren't actually hungry - they were waking due to the pressure of a full bladder, and I was essentially offering them another drink instead of responding to their need to pee! Sure, the breast was temporarily comforting, but the need (to pee) was going unmet. We *ALL* slept much better after DH figured out the nighttime needs of our babies: 1st waking was to pee (they'd fall back into a nice sleep while finishing peeing), 2nd waking was to nurse.

Anyway... I really appreciated hearing about EC with DD, our first child (didn't know about EC until she was 8/9 mos, we'd been doing the typical diapering thing up to that point and I was trying to switch to cloth when I read about it and decided to give it a try). Our family, grandparents included, love EC so much and had such a positive experience with it w/ DD that there was no question we'd start from birth with DS, our 2nd child. And man, I knew newborns were amazing, but I had no idea how much they can actually tell us if we know what to listen for! Consider giving EC a try - you will not have to worry so much about the nighttime diaper changes because you'll come to know your baby's nighttime pee routine, and you'll probably all sleep better at night once your baby knows you're offering the potty. Many ECed babies pee only 1 time at night or are dry through the night until early morning, when they have a big morning wee on the pot!







:


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sedalbj* 
I don't claim to be the perfect mom who always changes the cloth cd, but I like to think of it this way (it gets my butt out of bed, or off the chair). If my aging grandma was incontinent and living in a nursing facility, I would be beyond pissed off if the nursing staff didn't change her diaper very regularly. Especially if she wasn't able to tell them she was wet due to dementia or something. No one should have to live that way, a 1 mth old baby or a 95 year old lady, ya know?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amym72* 
I was going to look into EC but don't know now, if everyone is as militant about it as you seem to be, I don't think it would be the supportive type of board I was looking for. Your posts seems rather hostile.









She doesn't EC.

-Angela


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## amym72 (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 







She doesn't EC.

-Angela

The way the posts came across to me I assummed (wrongly) that she does. Sorry. I don't advocate anyone leaving a baby (or anyone for that matter) in a dirty diaper, but I also don't know anyone that changes their baby on the hour every hour, even through the night. The OP was saying she needs a way to not have to change her baby every hour and I feel like those few posts were attacking anyone that would say "I need to sleep some and can't get any because I'm changing every hour during the night", I always had a diaper system that did not require changing that often. I used either fitteds with a fleece liner and wool or Fuzzi Bunz and dd never woke up feeling wet even though her diaper (or in the case of the FB, the insert) would be soaked. When she was tiny I changed her when she woke up to eat but once she would sleep longer I didn't wake up to change her if she was sleeping. If I woke up to go to the bathroom then I would check her and change her if need be.


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## amym72 (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
I'm really not trying to be hostile, truely! I am sorry if it appears that way. It IS wrong though! I feel just as sorry for you if you think sitting in your won waste is alright, but you're a big girl...a baby has no choice. It is mind boggleing to me that everyone isn't as grossed out by this as I am. Changing diapers overnight need not be a big event, just bring a diaper & wipes, etc to bed with you, that's what I do...I then put the dirty dipe on a cloth on the floor & pick everything up in the AM. And if you think EC is the way to go that might well be the best option for you...though I assume EC'ers use diapers overnight...? I don't know, I don't EC.

Just asking? How many times do you change your baby during the night? It sounds like 1? The OP I'm sure would love to only be changing 1 time a night, she was asking what to do to not have to change every hour. I don't think her goal is to leave ther baby in the diaper all night long regardless how soaked it is, she just is wanting to know if there is some other way of not being up all night changing diapers. My youngest is no longer in diapers, but I did the same as you, kept diapers and wipes right next to the bed and changed her when she woke up needing changed.


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## susieinms (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Just cuz you are OK with it doesn't mean others are. I wouldn't be. It's not right to let a baby sit in pee. Period.

Okay, I would agree with you IF:

~~any of my 4 children ever showed any sign of being uncomfy while sleeping in a wet pf. My dd is now 17 mos old and does let me know when something is bothering here; even in her sleep. None of my children ever showed any signs of discomfort.

~~I felt right putting chemicals that cause cancer next to my baby's skin

~~fleece ever worked for us. When I used fleece my dd had more rashes and it still felt wet when I touched it. They basically would get build up and would need weekly stripping. NOT going there.

~~it caused my dd any rashes, which it doesn't.

I think that each and every baby and each and every household is different and calls for different options. Please do not be judgmental and say it is wrong. Clearly for my babies it is not.


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## mimid (Dec 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *susieinms* 
I think that each and every baby and each and every household is different and calls for different options. Please do not be judgmental and say it is wrong.









:

I think that is what we should remember. Everyone (mama, babe and family) has different needs and solutions to problems.


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## miziki (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beansavi* 
I think you need to relax and be nice to people you don't know.

I sincerely apologize if I offended you in any way - I am really confused as to what was so "not nice" about my last post. Would you be willing to let me know what sentence(s) were offensive so I don't make the same mistake twice?









(updating with...)
Looking back over my post, was it this part that was offensive?:

_Originally Posted by *miziki* http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?p=6758897#post6758897http://www.mothering.com/discussions...s/viewpost.gif_
_Trying to say this as gently and respectfully as possible... this is a
common cultural mistake we make, to think this way. But it is untrue
that babies sleeping in pee is normal. It's not.

_If so, I can see now that it might have looked like I was saying "what you are doing is not normal," and that would feel yucky and truly was *not* my intention. I really apologize if I came across like that! Just in case it wasn't clear, I too diapered my DD conventionally for many, many months before happening upon/trying EC so I remember very well my initial reaction to EC (it sounded just ridiculously crazy at first, but I read more about this crazy idea, and the more I read, the more it seemed so simply logical, and then trying/seeing was believing...) and cannot fault anyone for strongly supporting (as I did!) our cultural belief in diapering.

What would have perhaps been a more sensitive approach:
In our current culture, beansavi is right that it is the norm for babies to sleep in a wet diaper ("never wake a sleeping baby")! Biologically speaking, though, babies sleeping in pee is not the evolutionary blueprint. Babies are born expecting to be fed at the breast, to sleep with mom & dad, to be carried in arms, and to be pottied. They don't expect bottles, being in cribs and carseats and strollers and swings, or diapers that get changed after they pee/poop in them. (NOTE: I've done all of these things with both of my kids, so this is really, really NOT a judgement!) Babies are hardwired to signal for hunger & elimination, regardless of what our culture says is ok.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I'm sorry you seem to have a hard time seeing leaving babies in wet diapers is wrong.
And since I was asked - when my kids were little (first few months) I changed about 3-5 wet diapers a night. Now my youngest is 8 months & is changed usually once per night. If she needed changing every hour I would. To not do so is improper.


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## skueppers (Mar 30, 2005)

We change our daughter's diapers whenever she wakes up at night. Not because we're saints, but because it became clear when she was a newborn that she wouldn't go back to sleep in a wet diaper, or if she did sleep, it wasn't very deeply or for very long. Now at 2, the only reason she ever wakes up in the middle of the night is if she wants a diaper change.

Would we have changed her in the middle of the night if she'd been OK with wet diapers? Absolutely not!

It seems to me that different kids have different levels of tolerance to wetness. Unlike rmzbm, I don't see any reason to change a kid who doesn't want to be changed, and I certainly see no reason to wake a child up in order to change their diaper unless it's soiled! Even a newborn is capable of letting us know that they're uncomfortable/unhappy.

In response to the original poster, I'd suggest trying a fleece-topped doubler, such as those from Polar Babies. I like those in particular because they use genuine Malden Mills microfleece, which I find pills less, wears longer, and works better than other kinds. Plus the hemp/cotton fabric is very absorbent.

When my daughter was still nursing, I used to change her diaper in between sides. I figured waking her up a little after the first side might get her to take more milk, and thus stay asleep longer. I'm not sure how successful that strategy was, but since I was going to have to change her sometime in there, it seemed like the best time.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

In all seriousness...can you walk me through the thought process that leads you to think allowing someone to sleep in urine is OK?


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## susieinms (Aug 11, 2005)

I really don't know if it can be explained any way other than what has been said already, but I will give you a for instance:

Right now my dd is going through sever diareah (long story) and so her tushie is red and blistered. I have kept creams on her constantly, but what seems to be working the best is good old fashioned vasiline. Anyway I want her booty bone dry if at all possible till this heals up. Because of that when she half way woke up a few minutes ago I took the time to change her diaper. Did she appreciate that I wanted her dry to prevent any further blistering? No way! Infact she cried as soon as she saw the diaper and continued the whole time. As soon as diaper changing time was over she layed in my arms and went to sleep. It is always like that with her. She much prefers to be wet than to be woke up.

If she cryed to have a diaper changed I would whip her a fresh prefold on no question, but it actually upsets her to be woke up. I found the same thing for all of my children.

This is not a black and white issue here. It is not like say murder that is clearly wrong and sinful. We are not even talking about child neglect, because for many it is more peaceful to let them be than to change them. If your child is uncomfy with a wet dipe then please do change them.

I waited 17 years for this baby, and I am not about to do anything to harm her. She is the light in my day, and the sweetness of my nights.







:


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## pampered_mom (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
In all seriousness...can you walk me through the thought process that leads you to think allowing someone to sleep in urine is OK?

So...let me see if I understand this because quite frankly I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what it is that we're all supposed to be doing according to your logic. Are we to set an alarm to wake us up in the middle of the night for these diaper changes at night that according to you are necessary in order for proper diaper hygiene? Once every two hours? Four hours? Does it vary by age? What are the signs you are looking for that the diaper needs to be changed while everyone is asleep?

Are we talking about just the illusion of being dry as in a dry feeling? Or a truly dry diaper? Because, no offense to alegna, but if we are talking about not letting children sleep in a wet diaper then letting them sit in a wet diaper that only "feels dry" due to SAPs and other chemicals should not be allowed either. The same urine is there and it's still next to a child's skin - so what's the difference?

According to what standard should EVERY family hold themselves to in this regard?


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## my3punkins2005 (Apr 8, 2006)

pampared i agree what now should we have a wet meter that zaps us ... I don't think that anyone should try to push there EC on ANYONE isn't it good enough that she has her baby swaddled in a wonderful healthy cloth diaper!!
Before microfleece and disposables our grandmothers and such had us in cotton cloth diapers so whats the problem ???


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## miziki (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skueppers* 
Unlike rmzbm, I don't see any reason to change a kid who doesn't want to be changed, and I certainly see no reason to wake a child up in order to change their diaper unless it's soiled!

Regardless of diapering or ECing, I do think it's important to change babies even if they don't care about being soiled because it helps them to stay in tune with their elimination sensations, their ability to recognize wet/dirty. In the long run, this makes conventional potty training much easier on both toddler and parent - I've just heard so many moms who in one breath say, "Well, I'd change her but she's not _that_ wet yet" and then in another breath they say, "We're trying potty training now, but DD/DS just doesn't seem to care that s/he's wet. I don't get it!" And then they put off potty training even longer because conventional potty training wisdom in our culture says "that means they're not ready" when in most cases (though not all), it just means that they've been desensitized to their own elimination after going in their diaper for 2, 3, 4 yrs in a row. So that's my encouragement to change a soiled diaper ASAP, though I do think it can be done cleverly and empathetically/respectfully so that it's less frustrating for the child.

Quote:

Even a newborn is capable of letting us know that they're uncomfortable/unhappy.
Yes!!! It's just that they don't expect to go in a diaper - many will only go a little bit at first, mom or dad changes the diaper, baby goes more, rinse, lather, repeat, and 4 diapers later... If that same baby were held over a potty after the first little bit of pee/poop in the diaper, they'd very likely bear down of their own accord and finish the job completely, at which point they'd squirm to let you know they were done. ECing a newborn is positively mindblowing - they are so capable of communicating with us about so many things!









Quote:

When my daughter was still nursing, I used to change her diaper in between sides... I'm not sure how successful that strategy was, but since I was going to have to change her sometime in there, it seemed like the best time.
Very instinctual and smart! When babies nurse, it really starts their digestive system moving from end to end. Quite common for babies to eliminate mid-feeding, so a diaper change then is great timing.


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## miziki (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my3punkins2005* 
I don't think that anyone should try to push there EC on ANYONE

my3punkins2005, rmzbm does NOT practice EC!!! Therefore, she's not "pushing EC on anyone" --> she is only advocating that soiled diapers be changed as quickly as humanly possible so that babies are clean and dry, not sitting in a dirty diaper. _But that is not EC. That's just changing diapers quickly._

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my3punkins2005* 
Before microfleece and disposables our grandmothers and such had us in cotton cloth diapers so whats the problem ???

I didn't think there was a problem? Mamas on these forums are hopefully allowed to have differences of opinion without there "being a problem." True that your mother and grandmother may have had you in cloth, though you were probably potty trained by 2 yrs old. But your great-grandmother and those before her? She most likely pottied her babies.







:

Really, diapering is such a recent thing (less than 100 yrs!) and most of the world still doesn't diaper as it is plain and simple too costly (in time, money, and environment) and culturally considered unhygienic. No flames, please, I'm only relaying opinions of those cultures in which EC is still the norm - NOT judging!!!


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## vietsabien (Aug 31, 2006)

Oh my gosh. How could anyone leave their baby soaking in urine overnight? I don't purposely leave my baby unchanged all night long. I use pocket diapers or stay-dry doublers because just in case I can't change her right after she goes, It buys me a little time. In other words, a baby should be changed as soon as they pee or poop. No exceptions. Often times I change her diaper with my eyes half opened and still in a state of somewhat sleeping. I change her diaper without wipeing to be as gentle as possible during nightime. When she wakes up in the morning, I take her over to the sink to wash and rinse her diaper area.

I'm sure that If you peed into your panties, and kept them on overnight, you'd think twice about leaving your baby in a wet diaper.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Thank you, to those who get it...you're posts restore some of my faith in common sence. No, I am not suggesting you set an alarm & awaken every hour...I AM suggesting that if you are aware a diaper is wet - change it! It really couldn't be simpilar. I know you're tired & I understand that, changing diapers in the middle of the night sucks, I don't enjoy it! But, as I see it, I signed up for late nights when I decided to become a mother. You just do it & try to go back to sleep knowing it will all be over way too soon! C'mon, deep down you MUST know leaving a wet diaper on a baby is a bad idea!?


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## susieinms (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vietsabien* 
Oh my gosh. How could anyone leave their baby soaking in urine overnight? I don't purposely leave my baby unchanged all night long. I use pocket diapers or stay-dry doublers because just in case I can't change her right after she goes, It buys me a little time. In other words, a baby should be changed as soon as they pee or poop. No exceptions. Often times I change her diaper with my eyes half opened and still in a state of somewhat sleeping. I change her diaper without wipeing to be as gentle as possible during nightime. When she wakes up in the morning, I take her over to the sink to wash and rinse her diaper area.

I'm sure that If you peed into your panties, and kept them on overnight, you'd think twice about leaving your baby in a wet diaper.


Vietsabien,
If I were to change my mommie cloth every time it was wet at night I would have to sleep on the toilet...LITERALLY!! I am a constant bleeder. But with the right amount of absorbancy I sleep perfectly sound with no fleece.









I wonder with a pp, are we to set an alarm clock? How are we to know when the baby is wet if they don't wake. Maybe we should leave a finger between the cover and the diaper so that when that warm moisture hits it we would wake up???

It makes no since to me. The baby is all the alarm anyone needs. If they are not happy with the wet dipe they will let you know. My baby lets me know that she is not happy being woke up for a diaper change.


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## PrettyBird (Jun 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *susieinms* 
Vietsabien,
If I were to change my mommie cloth every time it was wet at night I would have to sleep on the toilet...LITERALLY!! I am a constant bleeder. But with the right amount of absorbancy I sleep perfectly sound with no fleece.









I wonder with a pp, are we to set an alarm clock? How are we to know when the baby is wet if they don't wake. Maybe we should leave a finger between the cover and the diaper so that when that warm moisture hits it we would wake up???

It makes no since to me. The baby is all the alarm anyone needs. If they are not happy with the wet dipe they will let you know. My baby lets me know that she is not happy being woke up for a diaper change.

I am wondering this too...I wake up when DD wakes up during the night. I check her then, but usually we both sleep for 4-5 hour stretches. Am I supposed to set my alarm for every hour to check her diaper? Is that what you do those of you with the rude posts? Or does your child wake you up every time they wet?


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## amym72 (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Thank you, to those who get it...you're posts restore some of my faith in common sence. No, I am not suggesting you set an alarm & awaken every hour...I AM suggesting that if you are aware a diaper is wet - change it! It really couldn't be simpilar. I know you're tired & I understand that, changing diapers in the middle of the night sucks, I don't enjoy it! But, as I see it, I signed up for late nights when I decided to become a mother. You just do it & try to go back to sleep knowing it will all be over way too soon! C'mon, deep down you MUST know leaving a wet diaper on a baby is a bad idea!?

I and several others here have stated repetedly that we did/do change our babies as soon as they woke up and/or when we woke up and you still flamed us saying we were leaving them sitting in their own waste? It seems you are the one who "Doesn't get it" The way you have stated is the baby should be changed as soon as they wet every single time. I, like a pp had a dd that did not wake up right away when she was wet, if she didn't start making any sounds I would not wake up so therefor I would have had to set the alarm for every hour to check her to see if she was wet or like a pp stated sleep with my finger in her diaper!!! I am a very light sleeper as soon as any of my dc would make the slightest sound I would be awake, see if they were hungry and check their diaper. When dd was a newborn she got changed at least every two hours during the night. I went through approximately 18 diapers a day till she was much older and then at least 12 untill she got to the age where she was holding her urine for longer periods. Even with my oldest who I mostly used disposibles I went throught close to 18 diapers a day. People were telling me I was wasting diapers, that disposible held alot and I didn't need to change right away and I even knew people that only used 5-6 disposibles on a small baby per day!!! BTW-it's sense not sence (common sense). Please tell us what made you "aware" that your baby was wet? was it that they started making sounds, woke up? Because if that is it then you did the exact same thing as I did. Also what type of diapers did you use, what type do you use now? It seems like everyone is getting mad about something that I think we are all doing the same way we are just stating it differently.

To the poster that was saying that babies get used to being wet and take longer to PL. I think in a way that is true, but it's opposite with disposibles, they keep them so dry that they never know they are wet to know they don't want to be wet and want to go to the bathroom. Also my dd who was cd'd full time started pL'ing at 18 months and was fully out of diapers during the day by 2. It took a little longer for her to get out of night time diapers.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Thank you, to those who get it...you're posts restore some of my faith in common sence. No, I am not suggesting you set an alarm & awaken every hour...I AM suggesting that if you are aware a diaper is wet - change it! It really couldn't be simpilar. I know you're tired & I understand that, changing diapers in the middle of the night sucks, I don't enjoy it! But, as I see it, I signed up for late nights when I decided to become a mother. You just do it & try to go back to sleep knowing it will all be over way too soon! C'mon, deep down you MUST know leaving a wet diaper on a baby is a bad idea!?









:

But honestly this just seems to be something that doesn't horrify some people.







I don't get it. If I woke up and dd was wet, I changed her (whether or not SHE woke up) And during the day, whenever she was wet, I changed her.

I don't know if it was disposable diapers that did it or something else in our culture, but there is a widespread feeling that it's okay to leave a baby in a wet diaper. My MIL and I have this discussion often. She is totally grossed out by it two- when she had babies, she changed when they were wet (and it was old cloth diapers and pins- nothing to keep them feeling dry) She is really truly disturbed by babies left sitting in their own waste. Unfortunately her other DIL with kids doesn't feel that way.

-Angela


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## PrettyBird (Jun 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 







:

But honestly this just seems to be something that doesn't horrify some people.







I don't get it. If I woke up and dd was wet, I changed her (whether or not SHE woke up) And during the day, whenever she was wet, I changed her.

I don't know if it was disposable diapers that did it or something else in our culture, but there is a widespread feeling that it's okay to leave a baby in a wet diaper. My MIL and I have this discussion often. She is totally grossed out by it two- when she had babies, she changed when they were wet (and it was old cloth diapers and pins- nothing to keep them feeling dry) She is really truly disturbed by babies left sitting in their own waste. Unfortunately her other DIL with kids doesn't feel that way.

-Angela

So technically she sits in her own waste until you wake up, right?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrettyBird* 
So technically she sits in her own waste until you wake up, right?

True. And if the diaper felt cold I felt badly.







I feel like it's my responsibility. And fwiw I usually woke up when she peed. She rarely peed while totally asleep, so she stirred.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

AND I would NEVER consider NOT changing a wet diaper. THAT'S the part I simply can't fathom.

-Angela


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

If you KNOW it's wet you should change it. Obviously, until you are aware you cannot. Nitpick much?







Sometimes I awaken at night while DD is still sleeping & my hand goes straight to the diaper to make certain she is dry. If she isn't she gets changed, if that wakes her - so be it. She will sleep again! But she never sleeps through being wet - she HATES it, maybe cuz she's so used to being changed every single times there's a drop of wetness. I wouldn't WANT her to get to the point of not caring.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
AND I would NEVER consider NOT changing a wet diaper. THAT'S the part I simply can't fathom.

-Angela

Exactly...seems like certain posters are back peddeling here!


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## susieinms (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
If you KNOW it's wet you should change it. Obviously, until you are aware you cannot. Nitpick much?







Sometimes I awaken at night while DD is still sleeping & my hand goes straight to the diaper to make certain she is dry. If she isn't she gets changed, if that wakes her - so be it. She will sleep again! But she never sleeps through being wet - she HATES it, maybe cuz she's so used to being changed every single times there's a drop of wetness. I wouldn't WANT her to get to the point of not caring.


My babies came into the world not caring since they were totally wet for 9 months previously.







And you know what, GOD did that!!







It may not have been urine, but it seemed to have had the same effect...none at all.

Just for the record. I change my baby very often durring the day, some may even consider me obsessive, but that matters as much to me as your opinon of me letting my dd sleep. What matters to me is a happy healthy baby. She's doing fine thank you very much. If I were to disturb her and cause her to loose sleep seems to me that that would be less healthy than having a little pee on her shinny pink, healthy rear end. BTW Diareah and rash are all gone and I didn't have to change her at 2 am either.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Oh, come on!

I guess we just aren't going to agree.

I'll keep changing my baby & you keep...doing whatever it is you do...sleeping, I guess.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Exactly. It seems to be a different mind set. For whatever reason some parents aren't horrified by the thought of choosing to leave their tiny baby sitting in their own waste







I don't understand it at all, but I accept that they aren't as horrified by it as you and I are.

-Angela


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## susieinms (Aug 11, 2005)

Okay here is a poll for you two ladies that think the rest of the world is wrong:
http://www.diaperswappers.com/forum/...ght=poll+sleep


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## susieinms (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Oh, come on!

I guess we just aren't going to agree.

I'll keep changing my baby & you keep...doing whatever it is you do...sleeping, I guess.










You just get sweeter with every post don't you?


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
I'm sorry you seem to have a hard time seeing leaving babies in wet diapers is wrong.
And since I was asked - when my kids were little (first few months) I changed about 3-5 wet diapers a night. Now my youngest is 8 months & is changed usually once per night. If she needed changing every hour I would. To not do so is improper.

I would be unable to move if I was up breastfeeding and changing a diaper 3-5 times a night. Perhaps it works for you, but with my auto-immune problems I need to just pop a boob in the baby and sleep. I literally would not be able to move if my sleep were that interrupted.

I'm sorry you seem to be unable to see that different families have to deal with diapering in different ways. During the day I change as often as I can. At night I need to be able to get the rest I need to be a good mother during the day.

Many women find their PPD is increased exponentially with decreased sleep. Fibromyalgia and auto-immune problems like mine can be exacerbated with lack of sleep. Don't sit in judgement of me and my "poor child" when you don't have all the answers for every family.

Thanks.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

It's the answer for all BABIES.


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
It's the answer for all BABIES.

And babies exist independently? Or inside some kind of group?

If ONLY there were a name for it!


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Say what?

Yes, babies are part of the FAMILY...but they NEED their diapers changed, day or night...why won't you let that through...


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Probably for the same reason that you seem unable to get that YES we agree babies need their diapers changed. It's a matter of in some cases, much like my own, that the time frame differs.

I diaper my child (and all my children in the past) so that they do not feel wet even if they pee during the night. I change them right before I go to bed and as soon as we get up in the morning. If I were to have sleep so disrupted over an extended period of time I would not be able to mother my child/children at ALL. I would be bed ridden. Not figuratively, but literally. I know. It's happened before.

Sometimes inside a family a compromise MUST be reached. Even with the smallest of us for the larger good.

The baby is important. My current infant though is not more important than his 8 yr old brother, his 6 year old brother, or his 3 yr old brother. If I were to follow your absolute I would be unable to parent them effectively. Especially the 3 yr old who is home all day everyday we me and his infant brother.

Why can't YOU see that nothing is as black and white as you are making this out to be.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Because some things ARE black & white.

I have 4 kids...don't play the "I have a bunch'a kids & need rest" card with me.

As I said, we won't agree.

So, in the spirit of not wanting to further waste my time, I am leaving the thread.

A babe's care should never be compromised. My condolences to yours.


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## skueppers (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
they NEED their diapers changed, day or night...why won't you let that through...

Presumably because some of us believe in trusting our babies to tell us what they need, rather than following some arbitrary protocol.

My baby needed to be changed whenever she woke up, so I changed her. Lots of other people's babies seem to be perfectly content to just nurse back to sleep without a diaper change.

If it's appropriate to trust our babies to tell us when they need to nurse, be held, sleep, play, etc. why isn't it appropriate to trust our babies to tell us when they need their diapers changed?


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## eden/averymum (Jun 13, 2005)

I haven't changed a diaper at night since my kids stopped pooping at night. we never had a problem, for 19+ months we did this. now all of sudden we have rash issues. I blame our crappy new washer.

I don't sleep all night. I am up with my 22 month old twins at least twice nursing, but I don't change them unless the diapers leak, which has happened a handful of times.


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## eden/averymum (Jun 13, 2005)

OMG, this thread is hilarious.







:

through my cd'ing experience, i change the kids in the day, as soon as I realize they need it. sometimes they go a few hours without peeing, sometimes they pee frequently. I don't follow them about with my hand down their pants waiting for them to pee so I can whisk the offensive waste away. but check them regulary and at certain given times (like right before eating or napping) at night I don't change them at all, they go 12 hours in their night diapers. we used to not even line them and it was never ever a problem. they have always been rash free until the last month when we have build up problems from the crappy new machine (I want to kill this machine).

are there people here who would seriously claim I am somehow acting in an injurious manner for not disturbing my children in their sleep to check their diapers and change them? or even if they wake, why should I change them, if their skin doesn't suffer, and their nightime diapers hold (isn't this why nightime diapers are made?) then why bother?


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Because some things ARE black & white.

I have 4 kids...don't play the "I have a bunch'a kids & need rest" card with me.

As I said, we won't agree.

So, in the spirit of not wanting to further waste my time, I am leaving the thread.

A babe's care should never be compromised. My condolences to yours.

You know what. You can sod off. My baby is just fine. Growing well, and well cared for. I didn't play the "I have a buncha kids and need rest" card as you call it.

I specifically stated I have a health issue that makes sleep important, and that interrupted sleep makes it impossible for me to MOVE. Especially when those nights of interrupted sleep are all strung together. If I did things as YOU presume they MUST be done none of my children would benefit.

Just so you know. Everyone can see up your skirt from your horses lofty height.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Oooooh, well, if y'all were _REAL_ AP parents, you'd be up 5 times per night doing EC with your babes. Sniff.

(haha)









I do EC, but I even I do very absorbent dipes at night. Who wants to get up?


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## summerbabe (Nov 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Thank you, to those who get it...you're posts restore some of my faith in common sence. No, I am not suggesting you set an alarm & awaken every hour...I AM suggesting that if you are aware a diaper is wet - change it! It really couldn't be simpilar. I know you're tired & I understand that, changing diapers in the middle of the night sucks, I don't enjoy it! But, as I see it, I signed up for late nights when I decided to become a mother. You just do it & try to go back to sleep knowing it will all be over way too soon! C'mon, deep down you MUST know leaving a wet diaper on a baby is a bad idea!?


I actually do not disagree with you, now that many posts later you have clarified what you are actually suggesting in terms of diaper changes. However, I do agree that your posts are hostile and judgemental. This is how you come across when you come down with short, authoritarian, blanket statements containing words like "deplorable." I have seen this in many threads. It makes it appear that you just enjoy telling others how "bad" they are and "deplorable" was the word for today. You have a lot of good points and knowledge to share, which I'm sure people would be a lot more receptive to if presented differently.

Perhaps I am being terribly presumptuous in telling you this, and if so I apologize. I only do so because in one of your posts, you seemed surprised that people would read you as hostile and genuinely concerned about coming across that way.


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## cuddlebugzlovey (Feb 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *miziki* 
True that your mother and grandmother may have had you in cloth, though you were probably potty trained by 2 yrs old. But your great-grandmother and those before her? She most likely pottied her babies.







:

Really, diapering is such a recent thing (less than 100 yrs!) and most of the world still doesn't diaper as it is plain and simple too costly (in time, money, and environment) and culturally considered unhygienic. No flames, please, I'm only relaying opinions of those cultures in which EC is still the norm - NOT judging!!!

Some additional information on diapering history. Just trying to present another side of history.









http://www.diaperjungle.com/history-of-diapers.html

http://www.rctimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll...306140093/1306


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## lilysmama1124 (Aug 26, 2006)

I have been trying to decide how I feel about this subject. I have a 3 week old and she is wet everytime I change her- I think she pees every 15 minutes(it sure seems that way). I have personally decided that there are two competing ideals that I would like to provide for my daughter 1)That she not sit in her own waste for too long 2) that she have happy,rested, and healthy parents. Realistically for me during these first few weeks it has had to be a give and take between the two. My daughter doesn't seem bother if she is in a diaper for 2 hours and I know that she has had to be wet for at least an hour of that time-for the sake of my own sanity if she is asleep and I am asleep then I don't change her. Now I'm only averaging about 3 hours of sleep a day and if I didn't forgo changing her every 1/2 hour to hour to get that sleep I would be a crying, frustrated, ball of goo!! I figure that if she doesn't have a rash and isn't crying she would probably bennefit more from me being sane and in positive place even if that means that once or twice a day she sits in her own pee. I do use fleece covered doublers and they feel dry on top everytime. If you are able to change your baby hourly-24 hours a day- you go supermoms but right now I'm not there so I say- atpeace-try some these suggestions and get some sleep!!


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## pampered_mom (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
I AM suggesting that if you are aware a diaper is wet - change it! It really couldn't be simpilar.

See...that's the caveat you NEVER included in previous posts. I'm not entirely certain that anyone here ever said you *shouldn't* change a wet diaper if you were aware of it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amym72* 
I and several others here have stated repetedly that we did/do change our babies as soon as they woke up and/or when we woke up and you still flamed us saying we were leaving them sitting in their own waste? It seems you are the one who "Doesn't get it" The way you have stated is the baby should be changed as soon as they wet every single time. I, like a pp had a dd that did not wake up right away when she was wet, if she didn't start making any sounds I would not wake up so therefor I would have had to set the alarm for every hour to check her to see if she was wet or like a pp stated sleep with my finger in her diaper!!!









:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
But honestly this just seems to be something that doesn't horrify some people.







I don't get it. If I woke up and dd was wet, I changed her (whether or not SHE woke up) And during the day, whenever she was wet, I changed her.

Again, don't think anyone here is actually suggesting anything other than that. HOWEVER, this blanket judgement of folks based upon how _often_ their child is changed at night is what doesn't make much sense to me. It's another version of the "look how AP _I_ am" one-upsmanship that seems to permeate some AP discussions. Sheesh!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Sometimes I awaken at night while DD is still sleeping & my hand goes straight to the diaper to make certain she is dry. If she isn't she gets changed, if that wakes her - so be it. She will sleep again! But she never sleeps through being wet - she HATES it, maybe cuz she's so used to being changed every single times there's a drop of wetness. I wouldn't WANT her to get to the point of not caring.

I'm _glad_ that you wake up at night and are able to check these things. I don't usually wake up at night. In fact I very rarely wake up at night. So...since my ds' diaper is wet when he gets up in the morning and I _don't_ know exactly when it got wet that makes me a bad parent?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
A babe's care should never be compromised. My condolences to yours.

To question another parent's parenting skills and/or intentions in this way is quite frankly the most horrifying thing I've read in this thread so far. If it isn't a violation of the UA it ought to be.


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## adamsfam07 (Sep 9, 2006)

I am pretty new to CDing myself, my son is 5 months old now and it took me a bit to get use to everything. I use the prefolds during the day and at night I use a pocket diaper so that I can adjust the level of absorbency. I love the Happy Heinys and the BG, (I haven't had a chance to use the new 2.0 though) I like the Fuzzi Bunz too but when I'm half awake and trying to change him I just can't seem to get the snaps







. I have to agree that the older they get the less they potty at night, I only have to change him once at night and then first thing in the morning. I can't imagine leaving him sitting in a wet diaper though, I think I'd feel a little guilty knowing he was wet and cold when I was sleeping dry and warm.


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## amandapanda9 (Aug 7, 2006)

I cannot believe how rude and judgemental some people are being on this thread. it blows my mind actually. How is it okay for certain people to tell other mother's that they are WRONG for the parental decisions they are making concerning changing diapers in the middle of the night? Good grief. I would bet that these momma's are not actually up every single hour each night checking their child's dipes and changing them at the FIRST sign of wetness. So some babies sleep a few hours in a wet dipe and some sleep 6-8 hours in one....they are ALL wearing a dipe containing their own waste so I can't see how one situation is better than another. If you are not doing EC, then your baby sits in his/her own waste at some point each day and night. When my babies got up to nurse anywhere from every 2-3 hours when they were newborns, I always changed them because we were both up and awake....but as they began to sleep longer during the night, I didn't wake them up every few hours and change them....I let them dictate that. If they woke up, I changed them...if not, I let them sleep. If I wake up and they are not up yet, I check their dipes and change them if they are wet. My babies would sometimes sleep right through a diaper change and sometimes they wouldn't. I thought that AP was all about letting your baby communicate his/her needs and watching for those signals....we do that when it comes time for eating and sleeping. If they are not waking up from a wet diaper, should they be woken up for a change? Yes, there could be urine in that dipe but I use a stay dry system at night so if they can't feel it, what does it hurt? They have no rashes, no irritation and are getting a full night's sleep most of the time. I've always had happy, healthy, well rested babies. Now, if my kids were the type who woke up constantly and wanted to be changed, I would do it....I signed on for taking care of their needs the moment I got pregnant with all of them....and if I have less sleep from taking care of them, so be it.....if I simply could not function with limited sleep, I would definitely make sure that whatever nighttime diapering choice I made would be a very comfy one for my baby though....so my baby did not feel wet throughout the night. I personally plan to take the stay dry system away once my baby gets a bit older as well because I feel that it may inhibit potty training (like sposies do since your baby can't feel he/she is wet) and I'm sure I will be losing some sleep as I do that since my son will obviously be able to feel the wetness faster at night that way...but I don't mind.

I would also like to add that babies who are getting up and nursing or eating during the night will, of course, need to be changed more frequently during the night since they are consuming breastmilk or formula....but those babies that are not eating during the night anymore as they have gotten older, will typically pee less often during the night...therefore, would not be very wet once morning hits anyway. I feed my son before bedtime and then let him stay up about a half hour so I can make sure I have an absolutely dry dipe on him....he doesn't get up to nurse anymore and his dipe is not that wet by morning (not like it used to be when he was yonger)....he definitely doesn't feel wet....if he did, he would wake me up. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this topic...I think you have to do what is best for you and your baby....but it seems sad to me that there are others who think that their way is the ONLY way and if someone else doesn't do it their way, it's WRONG. I have 3 children and don't dare claim to be an expert on how to raise anyone else's kids. And just because some people claim that diapering is relatively new anyway...that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.....what else is relatively new that hundreds of years ago people lived without? Hmmmm....automobiles, planes, tv, clothing? If we are supposed to live only in the way that people lived hundreds/thousands of years ago, we would all be walking around naked with hair all over our bodies killing animals with homemade weapons and cooking them over a fire to survive and our lifespan would be extremely short as well.

For other people to judge and tell another mother that she is wrong and that her actions are deplorable is ridiculous. A deplorable action is when a parent starves his/her child, burns them with a cigarette, locks them in a closet to sit in their own waste for days, sexually or physically abuses them....not changing your baby's diaper at the first sign of wetness during the night is not deplorable. It would be nice if others could keep the problems of this world in perspective. Not to mention that advice and wisdom that is presented in a friendly, non-judgemental manner is almost always respected and is considered more carefully by those reading it.


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## northwoods1995 (Nov 17, 2003)




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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amandapanda9* 
It would be nice if others could keep the problems of this world in perspective. Not to mention that advice and wisdom that is presented in a friendly, non-judgemental manner is almost always respected and is considered more carefully by those reading it.

Well said.


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## eden/averymum (Jun 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amandapanda9* 
It would be nice if others could keep the problems of this world in perspective. Not to mention that advice and wisdom that is presented in a friendly, non-judgemental manner is almost always respected and is considered more carefully by those reading it.


this is by far the most intelligent comment on this thread! love it!


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## stephmomtoabby (Oct 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eden/averymum* 
this is by far the most intelligent comment on this thread! love it!

What a thread!
The real shame is those lurking may be completely turned off to cloth by the idea that unless you sleep with one eye continually on your child's diaper you are condemming them to a lifetime of therapy-LOL

I have found those most defensive or passive/aggressive about specific parenting techniques are completely full of it or assuming their position to make themselves feel better.

Honestly, there is too much real child abuse in this world to get upset about how many times at night a baby is changed. Just turn on the nightly news if you want to see how some in this world treat their children


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## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

it's just baby pee... this whole obsession with dry diapers at all times is so... American?









People over hte world have usually diapered. With grass, blankets, fabrics... just about anything absorbent. The "natural tribes" argument is so simplistic -- where is the proof? How come every natural mama should know about how people treated their babies from 150,000 years ago until 1830 while even anthropologists don't have many of those answers? In most "natural tribes" people use some variety of diapering or they let the pee just run into whatever is belowe their baby, they don't do what we calll EC at all hours either. Not becuaes they're "polluted" by "western values" but because in no culture is every mom as superior as some MDC members that she can manage to get up at all hours to keep her children germ and liquid free.

If fleece works for you, use fleece. If disposable works, use disposable (just don't mention it at certain cyber venues







). If EC works, use EC. If changing 6 times a night works, change your baby 6 times a night. And if people offer you condolences for terrible child abuse, graciously accept the condolences and just put the people on your sh!t or ignore list







and hope your children will grow up less judgmental.


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## stephmomtoabby (Oct 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *simonee* 
it's just baby pee... this whole obsession with dry diapers at all times is so... American?









People over hte world have usually diapered. With grass, blankets, fabrics... just about anything absorbent. The "natural tribes" argument is so simplistic -- where is the proof? How come every natural mama should know about how people treated their babies from 150,000 years ago until 1830 while even anthropologists don't have many of those answers? In most "natural tribes" people use some variety of diapering or they let the pee just run into whatever is belowe their baby, they don't do what we calll EC at all hours either. Not becuaes they're "polluted" by "western values" but because in no culture is every mom as superior as some MDC members that she can manage to get up at all hours to keep her children germ and liquid free.

If fleece works for you, use fleece. If disposable works, use disposable (just don't mention it at certain cyber venues







). If EC works, use EC. If changing 6 times a night works, change your baby 6 times a night. And if people offer you condolences for terrible child abuse, graciously accept the condolences and just put the people on your sh!t or ignore list







and hope your children will grow up less judgmental.


That was beautifully put


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## eden/averymum (Jun 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *simonee* 
. And if people offer you condolences for terrible child abuse, graciously accept the condolences and just put the people on your sh!t or ignore list







and hope your children will grow up less judgmental.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *miziki* 
it just means that they've been desensitized to their own elimination after going in their diaper for 2, 3, 4 yrs in a row.

Having EC'ed on and off since DD was born, I've never understood this common theory among other EC'ers. If a baby is diapered with adequate absorbency they are not privy to the sensation of being wet. It would seem to me that a child would only become desensitized if they _actually_ had moisture against their skin for indefinite periods of time. Elimination = poo/pee. Poo/pee = wetness. A lot of wetness all the time = desensitized to the feeling of being wet.

If a child is diapered in a stay dry/feel dry diaper for two years, then the "sensations" they would feel with conventional potty training would be MORE then noticeable.

At least that's how I thought of it.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pynki* 
Many women find their PPD is increased exponentially with decreased sleep. Fibromyalgia and auto-immune problems like mine can be exacerbated with lack of sleep. Don't sit in judgement of me and my "poor child" when you don't have all the answers for every family.

I have a fibromyalgia, along with other chronic pain issues (bulging disk, thoracic outlet syndrome, to name a few). If my daughter sleeps, I sleep. 9 times out of 10 I will not change her diaper in the middle of the night. She is adequately diapered and does not feel wet, smell wet, or otherwise suffer because of a lack of hygiene (no rashes, UTIs, etc). If she is *content* to sleep, I let her. It's that simple.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 

A babe's care should never be compromised. My condolences to yours.

And it is for this exact reason that I do not wake (her or me) to change diapers - because there is more to being a mother then changing night time diapers. My daughter does not "sit in her own waste". Her skin is dry to the touch every morning. If she were "sitting in her own waste" I would presume she would be wet, or get a rash, or even a UTI? I don't know, I've never let her "sit in her own waste" to find out.

Instead of feeling sorry for other people's children, perhaps you should be thankful for your health so that you CAN wake at night to change diapers. You are very fortunate for your health, do not take it for granted. It is a miserable feeling to be unable to do the things we want, especially as far as our children go.

To the OP: if you are not opposed to synthetic materials, you can buy fleece and just cut strips to fit your diaper. It will wick the moisture from your baby's skin, and with adequate absorbancy the "waist" will be trapped in the insert and not against their skin. I like cotton babies microfiber inserts, as they hold 15 ounces. I use two of those at night with a microfiber towel as a doubler with the fleecer liner. She's not a heavier, but we've never had a leak, and she's NEVER felt wet.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Well, and the truth is that EC'd kids pee in their pants all the time too. And "potty trained" children do as well. It depends on how into whatever they're doing as to whether they mind, or signal before they have to go, or get up and take themselves to the bathroom. My kid - if he's sitting around in the car, he minds. If he's sleeping, he doesn't mind. If he finally - FINALLY! - got a hold of the dustpan and broom he's been coveting after for the past few weeks, definitely not.

Diapers are for parent and child convenience. And there is nothing wrong with that at all.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

WOW what a thread I too am confused by some of the posts. I'd never just leae my DD in a wet diaper I go out of my way to prevent it actually cause her body doesn't respond to being wet or even messy. Its not any type of neglect on my part its her body its nurological..
but anyways as a baby we changed with feedings she almost always had an explosive diaper when feeding but eaither way I changed if she woke I changes if I was up and aware I changed. She is now 4 she sleeps peacefully all night in a goodnight (And our reasons for sposie at night have nothing to do with keeping her dry its a rash thing) she ever so often come and told us I'm soaking wet I've on occasion when done the I'm going to bed check have discovered she needs a new diaper and I change her. However are there times when shes likely pees say at 2am when were all asleep and stays like that till 7am when we get up well yes. I sleep through my periods, as a child I was a bed wetter and would sleep through that as well no one was being mean my parents never said ohh your 10 so were not going to change you if they knew they woke me up and had me change but often it wan't till the morning anyone knew.


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## miziki (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama* 
Oooooh, well, if y'all were _REAL_ AP parents, you'd be up 5 times per night doing EC with your babes. Sniff.

(haha)









: Thank heavens you were kidding here - I almost died when I saw this! EC is misunderstood enough as it is, so to throw down something so fiery as that... well, I was horrified.







When I saw you were joking, I felt such incredible relief!









Quote:

I do EC, but I even I do very absorbent dipes at night. Who wants to get up?
Depends on what works for you, but it's not about getting up a billion times a night (though I thought it was too, before DH showed me otherwise)! I swear to you that for us, in our house, we ALL sleep better w/ nighttime EC - baby, mother, & father. And I *never* would have believed you if you told me that... I was sooo resistent to nighttime EC. DH took the initiative, and seeing really was believing. But before that, I fought it tooth and nail.







Turns out nighttime EC meant more predictable, longer stretches of better sleep for everyone - not getting up 5 times a night to potty or change diapers.

In general, babies who are ECed at night pee FEWER times in the dark hours because a) they're used to signalling and being pottied as a result, so they often flop around and fuss until responded to (just try bedsharing w/ a baby flopping all over due to a full bladder!), and b) there's a hormone secreted at night in all of us (called vasopressin?) that reduces the amount of pee produced while sleeping. Interestingly too, many babies who are ECed day & night are _dry through the night_ within the first year and thereafter (meaning NO getting up, no changing diapers!!!). They have a huge morning wee on the pot, which is totally adorable. I wonder how many babies who are ECed day and night are up 5 times/night peeing (excluding those w/ food allergies/sensitivities)? That much peeing would feel prohibitive but not that much more so than breastfeeding 5 times a night I suppose, once you got your rhythm/routine streamlined.

For us, really, ECing and BFing are just one big continuum, so we respond to hunger signals and elimination signals very similarly (and they often come together or one right after the other anyway). But that doesn't mean that we respond correctly or in a timely fashion to *every* signal - we do the best we can, just like everyone else!


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## miziki (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
Having EC'ed on and off since DD was born, I've never understood this common theory among other EC'ers. If a baby is diapered with adequate absorbency they are not privy to the sensation of being wet. It would seem to me that a child would only become desensitized if they _actually_ had moisture against their skin for indefinite periods of time. Elimination = poo/pee. Poo/pee = wetness. A lot of wetness all the time = desensitized to the feeling of being wet.

If a child is diapered in a stay dry/feel dry diaper for two years, then the "sensations" they would feel with conventional potty training would be MORE then noticeable.

At least that's how I thought of it.









So it's not just becoming desensitized to the sensation of being wet/dirty. It's also that when the sphincter muscle isn't consciously exercised for 2+ years, it's not as toned, thus it is actually physically more difficult for a toddler to potty learn, to engage this sphincter muscle. Of course kids DO eventually re-learn how to engage their sphincter muscles, and they tone up again. But it's just adding yet another layer of challenge to the conventional potty learning mix (strong willed toddler, major change in routine, etc.). If pottied from babyhood, the sphincter remains well toned, potty is such a normal unremarkable occurrence that there's no major change required and no fear about going from diaper to potty.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Locked for mod review. Check back tomorrow (mod is tired and going to bed)


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