# I spanked DS today (please don't flame me!)



## familyblackout (Dec 12, 2008)

I need help, or just a pair of listening eyes/ears.
DH and I are both in school full time. We are both stressed out, exhausted, and teetering on the brink of breakdown quite often. DS is three and 4 months, and going through a screaming, throwing, hitting phase. He doesn't sleep very well- often stirs throughout the night while I am doing homework so that I have to go in and nurse several times, before falling into bed with him exhausted, hoping for 6 hours of sleep, but DS wakes up and rolls around for a couple of hours every night. School is suffering as a result, and my parenting is suffering. I yell every day, two weeks ago I hit him after he hit me, and tonight, I spanked him.







I feel like the worst mother ever.
A month or two ago, DS started hitting. A lot. Double-handed slaps to the face, repeated, rapid-fire blows to our bodies, screaming indecipherable, raging rants, throwing whatever he can get his hands on. We have kept him out of daycare (until next semester, when it's just going to be impossible to work out our schedules), but every day, he freaks out when I leave for class, then when DH does. We try to schedule outings, crafts, activities for him to keep him active, socialized, and busy, but he never wants to go, then he never wants to leave. Today, DH took him to his school to get help from a teacher, then as they were leaving stopped to look at a "fan" sculpture (DS is obsessed with fans.). 3 "we're leaving in 5 minutes later"s, DH had to drag him away kicking, screaming and hitting. DH didn't lose his cool, and reminded him he was going into time out if he kept hitting. He had to sit him against a wall, and a police officer actually came over to see what was going on!
He demands things, and throws a fit if we refuse, leading us to buy our way out of potential tantrums. (I'm sorry, DS, but you can't have a candy bar whenever we go to a store!) Suggesting that he direct his anger somewhere healthy (a pillow, activity, etc), leads to greater rage.
And nummies. Oh, nummies. He requests nummies constantly, and when I am home (I only go to class 2-3 hours a day, and besides minimum cleaning, try to devote all my daytime to him) he will nurse 20-30 minutes out of every hour. If he requests it and I ask him to wait 5 minutes, he attacks me. DH and I flinch when he raises his hand! Asking him not to do something winds up with me getting slapped in the face, no matter how nice and gentle I keep my voice and my words. I know that he is responding to our stress, and our apparent abandonment by going to school (we were both taking online courses the first 2.5 years, so he became accustomed to a highly unorthodox and unsustainable situation before this!), but nothing seems to help.
He has had similar phases before this, around this time of year, and when we were at our wits' end, he kinda magically became our sweet boy again and then had a major developmental spurt. But our wits' end has long been exceeded this time, compounded with our exhaustion.
Thank you for listening. I don't want to be like this. I miss the days of online school, being able to be a SAHM for the most part- I was happiest then. I would rather not do this- homeschool, SAHM, self-reliant living has always been my hope. But our financial situation requires this, and despite knowing that I'm still dong the best with what I have, I am still failing as a mother.
Thanks again.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

I'm so sorry. Big hugs for you. It's so hard when it feels like everything's just a muddle. When our days start going badly, I try to get us some very dependable structure, get my daughter more time outside, clean up her diet, stay out of stores as much as possible, and work on her sleep. Sleepless in America was a lifesaver for us and totally helped me sort out our days into some predictable patterns. We're all happier. When things start getting rough, usually we've been out too much, our sleep is getting sloppy, or our diet is off.

I don't know what to tell you about hitting, it's not something we've been through with my daughter, but honestly SO many things get better when we pay attention to getting more time outside, better food, better sleep, and a more predictable day.

Take care and be nice to yourself. You're in a tough spot. And 3.5 has been a tough age for us, too!


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## ShyDaisi (Jan 22, 2007)

No advice, just hugs. I couldn't read that without hugging!


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

:


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## Tjej (Jan 22, 2009)

I'm really sorry you're struggling. Kids can really push us to our limits and then some, sometimes.

From what you said about how he hits, how he gets upset after 3x "5 more minutes" and how he makes you guys flinch when he raises his hands, it sounds like he really looking for some firm boundaries and testing you to see if you will set them. If you want advice, mine is to only say things to him once (his ears work fine, right







), and then calmly continue with whatever needs to happen. If that means you have to go to another room to be safe from him hitting you, or if it means that you need to ignore screaming for a bit, then I think that is what you need to do. I don't mean you should neglect him or anything, but we do all have our limits, and you deserve to be respected and safe as well as he does.

Before you change how you act, tell him what you will be doing (Mama and Daddy have been repeating themselves a lot, and changing our mind about things, and we see that makes you upset. We want to help you be a happy and gentle little boy, so we are working on doing what we say we will do the very first time... or something like that).

My last bit: never cave to screaming or hitting. If he wants nummies, then he will need to be gentle with you. If he hits you and screams at you about it, he needs to wait until he can calm down and ask nicely (or wait patiently). Unless there is some underlying medical condition, he should be able to control himself enough to learn to not hurt you (with consistent expectations).

Don't feel guilty about his situation, or about your schooling or working and all that. You are providing a loving home for him and doing the best with what you have. That is what we all do. Life is about learning and compromise and living to the best in our situations, not about having everything perfectly just how we want it all the time.

Tjej

ETA: And it sounds like the sleeping situation is not working well for you. Can your DH sleep with him, or can he sleep by himself some, or can you arrange a bigger bed or a side-by-side bed type thing (like a pull-out trundle so its right next to eachother but different heights so you aren't bumping all the time)? You really need some sleep to function (I know it makes it sooo much harder to be a good mom when I am terribly tired).


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

Hugs momma. I've got nothing helpful to add but it sounds like DS is going through a very rough patch and that you and DH are trying to muddle through it, just like we all do. I am sorry you are having a rough time and I hope it gets better soon.


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## Maluhia (Jun 24, 2007)

It really sounds like your sleep situation is not working - I second nursing him to sleep then sleeping in another bed so you get some rest. Rested parents have more reserves to draw from, you need that!


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## goodmomma76 (Sep 2, 2008)

Couldn't read without







s
...


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 
I'm so sorry. Big hugs for you. It's so hard when it feels like everything's just a muddle. When our days start going badly, I try to get us some very dependable structure, get my daughter more time outside, clean up her diet, stay out of stores as much as possible, and work on her sleep. Sleepless in America was a lifesaver for us and totally helped me sort out our days into some predictable patterns. We're all happier. When things start getting rough, usually we've been out too much, our sleep is getting sloppy, or our diet is off.

As I read her OP I thought "this woman needs Sleepless in America!" I second this book recommendation, I joke that it probably saved my daughter's life.

I just want to give you a hug and say that no one's perfect, we've all done things that we really regret in our parenting. You did wrong, you know you did wrong, and dwelling on it will just eat you up inside. There's no point crying over spilled milk: it's over and done and everything will be fine.

So I know that you have just TONS of free time in order to read a 300 page book, but I can't recommend Sleepless in America enough. It really doesn't need to be 300 pages: you can probably get everything you need out of it by reading the first few chapters and skimming the rest.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

It's hard *not* to hit back when somebody hits you, even when the person doing the hitting is a toddler or preschooler. I've been guilty of it myself.

I think the primary thing that needs to change is the sleeping situation- if you're tired, you can't be an effective mother. You need to find a way to get enough sleep so that you have the patience to deal with your child "being a normal 3.5yo." It will take even MORE patience to break him of the bad habits he's managed to aquire. Basically, there are two steps involved in stopping the hitting. First, you need a plan of action, what to do when he's actually having a tantrum. Secondly, you need to work on the underlying reasons, so he has fewer tantrums. If you don't work on both steps, you won't be able to solve the problems.

You need to NOT allow him to hit you. If he does, you move away from him and say "you are NOT allowed to hit me." Walk out of the room if necessary. If it's time to leave, then it's time to leave, even if you have to pick him up (from the back, crossing your arms over his so he can't hit) and carry him out. Don't "buy your way out of tantrums"- let the tantrums burn themselves out whenever possible.

There are things you can do to try and prevent tantrums. Make sure he's getting enough sleep and keeping a constant blood sugar. Not eating frequently enough or eating foods that are sugary (leading to blood sugar rushes then crashes) can cause tantrums. So can reactions to certain foods- artificial colors are common culprits. Have you been giving him more "junk food" lately because you're too busy to cook? Has he been eating "junk food" in daycare?


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## foreverinbluejeans (Jun 21, 2004)

Wow, Tears for you.

I was a single mother, doctoral student, had a breastfeeding son your age, and two older sons I homeschooled. It should not be this hard! You are only away at classes 3 hours a day.

Life is falling down around you. You need to make big changes. I have suggestions. I'm now 53. I was a student forever - over 25 years while I had children and I have 4 degrees from 3 colleges. Some of the time I was married. Most of the time not. I've also helped breastfeeding mothers as a volunteer for over 25 years. Some of my suggestions may work for you, some not.

Your son's breastfeeding is not normal for his age. He is picking up on your stress and on your reluctance to breastfeed. Your stress hormones actually go through your milk to him. Try to embrace breastfeeding. If you can learn to enjoy it he may settle into a more normal pattern of nursing in the morning, maybe once during the day, and at night.

If he can't nurse like he should be for his age then you might consider weaning. What he is doing is not normal and any mother would be stressed out. No one would fault you for weaning a 3.5 year old.

Learn to control your stress. Meditation, yoga, progressive body relaxation, something that works for you. Practice it every day.

Do everything you can to avoid day care even if that sets your career plans back. If you have to be away find a mother with one child to care for him in her home. You may be able to trade child care.

Learn to not worry about 6 hours of sleep. Don't think of it as not enough. If we accept the amount of sleep we get we feel less upset about it.

Read the book Love & Limits by Elizabeth Crary. She has a website www.starparent.com

Don't worry about grades unless you are planning on going to grad school.

Consider another school that has online courses that can transfer or lead to a degree.

Best wishes.


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## Tigerle (Jan 22, 2009)

I have a hitter at home (just turned three).

I can tell that it is very much a reaction to stress. It was worst when I had just started going back to work full-time four days a week and I was leaving the house in the mornings before he woke up. He'd torment me for two hours before finally falling asleep.
Going away in order not to be hit made things MUCH MUCH worse at that point. I suppose it was his biggest fear confirmed. I stopped doing this and started hugging him tight instead telling him all the way I wanted to stay with him and was doing this so I could without being hit, or headbutted, or having my hair ripped out. He complained and sobbed, but did usually fall asleep quickly. It was a weird time. The one thing that finally helped was cutting hours so now he sees me for all of ten minutes in the morning - that is literally all it took.

And yes, my husband once hit back. Sometimes it is so hard not to. I left it to them to make up again and I think apologizing and hugging and explaining long and patiently while comforting him all the while they managed to turn it into a teachable moment, not a traumatizing event. Give yourself a hug!

Now when he freaks out and has his hitting tantrums I do sometimes move away, though not out of the room - all the while telling him that I want to stay with him but the hitting has to stop - but still prefer hugging him tight. I have to be careful he won't headbutt me backwards! I also hug him tight to stop him from hurting the cats. Making sure he gets enough sleep (hard as he does not nap at all anymroe) and protein-rich food at regular intervals helps, too. I still identify it as a "not enough mommy" reaction. I realize that there isn't much less than 2-3 hours a day that you can go to class for and honestly, I do not think it is unreasonable for you to expect him to deal with that, particularly as one parent is always home with him. I think he may picking up more on your emotional availability, as you are under so much stress. If you can, I'd start with the sleep problem - once I left the house an hour later and DS went to sleep within minutes as opposed to hours and I was actually able to get stuff done AND get the minimal amount of sleep I needed.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

I have a three-year-old, intense, sometimes-hitter who doesn't sleep well at night. He sleeps in a different bed most of the night but always crawls into bed with us. He wakes very early, like 5:30 in the morning-- pretty much no matter when he goes to bed (if he goes to bed very late he might wake at like 6:30). Anyway, no advice, but I can sympathize.

I guess I would just say, don't beat yourself up. You are doing your best, trying to reach out for help, and taking it day by day. I bet your son absolutely adores you, as mine does me. He is passionate and intense and expresses his feelings very immediately and honestly. You are his world and you are doing a great job for him-- really. He will forgive you for the times you slip and make mistakes. And he will thrive in the long run, because he has such a devoted and invested mother.

I am going to look for that book, too: Sleepless in America-- mostly, though, I have resigned myself to the fact that it is probably just a season in life which will pass in time.


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## Sweetmilo (Jun 30, 2007)

OMG!! I am going thru something very very similar!
Just remember to take a deep breath, give your baby a huge hug and a kiss, tell him you love him, and I hope things work out for you guys!!


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## justthinkn (Apr 11, 2008)

I love this article using the continuum concept to talk about setting limits and tantrums... I hope you find it as helpful as I have. This article, similar but written from a mother's point of view, addresses the nursing issues as well...

I've also read somewhere but can't find it about using hugs with the adult standing *behind* the child to contain and protect during tantrums... The idea is that it's less threatening to the child that way, while still giving contact, reassurance, pressure...


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## familyblackout (Dec 12, 2008)

Thank you all so much for your kind words, advice and support.







I was honestly a little nervous to come back here.
I totally agree that the sleeping situation has to change. Honestly, he's never slept well- he's always stirred often in the night (in fact, we nicknamed him Wigglebug when he was an infant because of it!) I would both love and hate for him to have his own sleeping space- DH is all for it, and DS is actually excited about having his own bed too.
He's also always nursed this much, though occasionally he slows down a little. It's really physically draining on top of the lack of sleep. DH wants to wean him, and honestly I would love to, but I have no idea how to go about it in a gentle manner. I tried instituting ten minute nummy breaks in the morning (he wakes up about an hour before us and nurses until I get up, when he starts screaming "NO mommy go to school! Nummies! Need nummies!"), but that resulted in screaming, hitting and throwing, and honestly I just gave up. I can't imagine weaning!
I also did a lot of soul searching last night, and realized that I have been a giant stress ball this semester (something I've known, but haven't been able to puzzle out why), and I realized it's because the future just really scares me. My major (French/Spanish), while originally seeming like a degree that would give me opportunities (and being something I like and am good at), is now narrowing in range of job opportunities, the classes just aren't holding my attention (sorry but I hate literature), and "oh my god what am I going to do with this piece of paper I am spending all this money on" keeps ricocheting through my head. I want more children, but when is that going to happen?! yadda, yadda. So I'm working of setting that stone down, and honestly, today went really well. DS only hit DH twice while I was gone, and calmed quickly, I went to the park with him and he squealed once when it was time to go, but settled down, he played quietly in his room while we cleaned up after dinner, we had family time, and he got upset but didn't freak out when it was time for bed. All in all, success!
So, thanks again. I love so many of your ideas- the book suggestions, hugging from behind, recognizing that he's stressed out too. Regarding the food question, we honestly eat a lot of homemade, healthy, generally organic meals (thanks, DH!), but DS has been getting a few more treats than usual (guilt, anyone?







), and we definitely see a change when he eats sugar. So there's something else.
Thank you all again from the bottom of my heart. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. If you have any more advice, I am all ears.


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## familyblackout (Dec 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *justthinkn* 
I love this article using the continuum concept to talk about setting limits and tantrums... I hope you find it as helpful as I have. This article, similar but written from a mother's point of view, addresses the nursing issues as well...

I've also read somewhere but can't find it about using hugs with the adult standing *behind* the child to contain and protect during tantrums... The idea is that it's less threatening to the child that way, while still giving contact, reassurance, pressure...










I haven't even finished reading the second article yet and I want to give you a hug. I feel like I wrote that. Thank you.


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

If there's anyone on this thread who has never once completely lost it with their child and said/yelled/did something that they regret, they should send me their address and I'll mail them a medal ASAP. Obviously it's good to regret it when you do bad things, but we've all done things we regret and I don't think that anyone with any sense would pile on someone else.

Sorry your major is bumming you out: I don't know, that seems like a pretty useful major to me! I wish I knew another language.

I wanted to add that another book I found very useful about toddlerhood is Dr. Karp's The Happiest Toddler on the Block. It's definitely not very long and you can read it in an hour or two, but I think it gives some good practical advice on having a conversation with a child who is momentarily acting irrationally (honestly, I think it gives some advice which is useful when dealing with adults who are momentarily acting irrationally!) Every time I feel DD escalating I try to keep Karp's perspective in mind, and it often diffuses the situation.

I also want to add that even the most die-hard AP proponents say that if you feel that you're about to lose it, there is NOTHING wrong with making sure that the child is in a safe place where he can't hurt himself, and walking away to gather your wits. Take a nice hot shower. You gotta take care of yourself, Momma, if you want to take care of someone else.


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## babeak (Jan 10, 2008)

OP- Hugs Wow, you have a lot on your plate. I could not have done it. I did my degreeS and career then at 40 had 1st child (and last). I am a SAHM having left my career (long story). Being a mom is really a hard job. I don't think that I ever realized how hard it was all those years I saw parents with children.

Frankly, I don't know how you are doing it. I know that I would have been a terrible mother if I had been much younger *AND * going to school? (Not to imply you are a terrible mother...only my realization about me had I chosen a different life path). So kudos to you for being on the right track with a lot of things.

I imagine that there might also be stress with devoting time to kid vs. study, though I don't think you said so explicitly. That would be really tough since you have a close bond with DS.

I do agree with previous poster about weaning. It is supposed to be about a relationship that is mutually beneficial not energy sapping and making you feel a total slave to his every whim. I think that though I am not currently trying to wean, I do often offer a glass of water to my DD and that seems to work or offer another distraction that involves you spending time with DS...like something he is always asking you to do with him....play a game or a puzzle or whatever he would value as time shared together. I guess since he is old enough you could say we have time for one thing. We can either nurse or we can play a game for 15 min and you can have a drink of water. I think that making the offer you really want second is the way to encourage that as a desired choice.

You might also check the first post on the Unconditional Parenting thread. That is very helpful and so is the book.

LACH--thank you for kind words or reassurance that we all do make some mistakes. You had some good advice.

OP you are very wise in recognizing this as a mistake and not wanting to generate a pattern of behavior. Once again kudos to you for making the effort to change that behavior. There is also an extensive list of books that I think I found in the GD area with a number of recommended reads that were helpful.

Unconditional Parenting
Love and Consequences ( I think is another) My mouse is not working anymore...
Respectful Parents Respectful kids
Best wishes


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Here's an article I like that expands on the ideas in the Jean Leidloff article:
Where's My Center?









I think most of us have been there. I know I have. As long as you see it as a mistake and vow to do better, you're on the right track.

I found that when things got tough, I needed to change ME, change the way I related to ds. It really only took minor changes, but it always made a big difference in my relationship with ds. My general discipline view stayed the same (non-punitive), but I'd change little things- like allowing myself to say "no" without feeling bad, or trying to get better at seeing the impulse behind ds's "difficult" behaviors.
Both "child-centered" articles were helpful to me, as well as the book "Becoming the parent you want to be" www.becomingtheparent.com


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Momma, does your DS have a lovey? If your nummies are the lovey you need to fix that first and asap. It will take a while for him to attach but the lovey will ultimately help him wean.

I also vote for a separate bed.

Other thoughts...

Verbalizing his emotions and giving him words.

I like the pp advice about he doesn't get what he wants until he stops hitting. This will take time and you'll have to really talk to him, but it should work. My dd responds to this approach.

Good luck!

V


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## Encinalien (Mar 27, 2007)

I just ordered the happiest baby on the block with bonus Spanish track. I also ordered infants children and adolecents by Laura E Berk. Just thinking that article was a good story. I had heard the theory to carry the baby around, stay busy, and don't pay them much attention. But I never knew the story behind it.


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## justthinkn (Apr 11, 2008)

The article DevaMajka posted was good, too, esp. talking about how to make the shift into the cultural context we actually live in. For me, the basic take-aways are:

(1) Our children want to be close to us, and (at least when we're in sync) it's enjoyable for us, too
(2) Our children want us to be calm & confident so they know they can trust us; because of our closeness/attachment, we can be calm and confident in our ability to read and respond to their needs - we don't need to hover, and we can make good decisions for them when they are (or will be) overwhelmed by their choices
(3) We feel better when our days are purposeful, and our children want us to be purposeful so they can learn from us & eventually join us in our work

I loved re-reading the articles, b/c I needed the refresher! I think this works best for me when my daily work has a predictable routine, zones when DD knows I will be doing chores, etc. She's recently made a big mental leap in understanding I'm working when I use the computer - before, it was only physical tasks that she seemed to recognize that way.

And of course, I still give DD lots of loving attention - I just know that the times when I'm working alongside her (or leaving her with DH b/c I'm going to work for a few hours) and NOT focusing on her 100% are very good for her, too!


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## wahoowhippets (Dec 17, 2005)




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## BabyBearsMummy (Jan 27, 2006)

for all of you

Your DDs behaviour sounds a lot like what I am dealing with from my DD (3.5)and what a lot of my friends are dealing with from their children a similar age. I suspect it is a big developmental leap they are going thru and don't know how to handle it.

That said you are only human please give yourself a break no parent is perfect we all are just doing the best we can.

It sounds to me like you need some stress relief just a little bit of mummy only time each day when you are not expected to do anything but take care of yourself. Perhaps some time to take a walk or a half hour at the gym. Your DH probably needs the same kind of daddy only time. While the other parent is gone giving themselves some TLC the parent at home with your DS could spend some DS ONLY quality time NO SCHOOL or HOUSEWORK doing something of your DS choosing follow his lead. That hour a day will likely make a world of to all of you.

I know stress can eat you alive and there is no doubt our children take on our stress. I'm a low income single mother trying to get my own business off the ground. My poor DD and I have really been feeling the stress lately and I have been feeling like a "bad mommy". I recently decided to try some new strategies so I can become more like the "Super Mommy" that my daughter says I am.

I'm right there with you. Sending you lots


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## Encinalien (Mar 27, 2007)

i'm printing it up right now to tape it on the bathroom wall for a couple weeks. i always did that with ds. and it worked so well when he was younger, he would sit on my lap while i spend all day on the computer (training for a wahm career)

It's harder to do my thing and let him do his thing now that he wants to do something. Do they make baby locks for the refridgerator door?


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## crazyrunningmama (Dec 16, 2006)

As well as all this awesome advice you've already received, I wanted to add this. It sounds like a lot has changed for your ds and he is trying to gain back some control and predictability. It might help to do a visual "schedule" or "shape of the day" for him so he he is more prepared for transitions (you and your dh leaving and coming back, going to places and then having to leave them). It could be as simple as a list of the plan for the day (breakfast, toys, paint, snack, park, come home, lunch, mama byebye) with basic stick figures drawn beside them. Or photos or symbols from the internet. I know it sounds like a lot of work, but it has really helped with my dd when my work schedule changed and I was out of the house more (because it shows things she's not excited about, but also all the things that are going to be good in her day).


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)




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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hablame_today* 
I just ordered the happiest baby on the block with bonus Spanish track. I also ordered infants children and adolecents by Laura E Berk. Just thinking that article was a good story. I had heard the theory to carry the baby around, stay busy, and don't pay them much attention. But I never knew the story behind it.

Eep, I just wanted to clarify: the author has two books: Happiest Baby on the Block (which is mainly for babies under 4 months) and Happiest Toddler on the Block which I'm finding very useful for the toddler stage.


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