# My son is extremely depressed because he's never had a girlfriend



## fangaroo

My 17 year old son has been depressed for awhile now because he's never had a girlfriend. He goes to a small private school, and he says he's known a lot of the girls since kindergarten and he's not attracted to them. He's tried going to the mall to look for girls, but he also has social anxiety disorder, and he feels to anxious to walk up to a girl, talk to her and ask for her number. He tried joining a club at another school, but he feels the same anxiety about talking to pretty girls. He's very upset and doesn't want to go to school because he says he sees his friends and stuff in relationships and it makes him feel so awful he wants to cry. He's been crying a lot recently and doesn't really have any appetite. I've taken him to several therapy appointments with a social worker, but he seems to be more frustrated by the appointments than helped. The social worker thinks that he has social anxiety. She also thinks that his best bet is to date a girl at the school, but he keeps telling me that he doesn't like those girls at all. He also says he feels jealous of all his friends who have girlfriends and he wants a girlfriend so bad. What can I do? He's so sad.


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## moominmamma

Wow, you're trying this thread again?

If your son has a social anxiety disorder and depressed, get him help. Deal with those things: keep working on his mental health and maturity. Muster lots of resources: you may need to consider medication, you may need to look at family counselling, CBT, psychiatric consultations, all sorts of things. Give up the girlfriend thing already. Did you not get anything out of the previous thread? Focusing on the girlfriend issue is not helpful.

Miranda


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## fangaroo

The only problem is that he wants a girlfriend, but has a hard time meeting new girls and asking them on dates because he has social anxiety disorder.


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## WallaWallaMamma

fangaroo said:


> My 17 year old son has been depressed for awhile now because he's never had a girlfriend. He goes to a small private school, and he says he's known a lot of the girls since kindergarten and he's not attracted to them. He's tried going to the mall to look for girls, but he also has social anxiety disorder, and he feels to anxious to walk up to a girl, talk to her and ask for her number. He tried joining a club at another school, but he feels the same anxiety about talking to pretty girls. He's very upset and doesn't want to go to school because he says he sees his friends and stuff in relationships and it makes him feel so awful he wants to cry. He's been crying a lot recently and doesn't really have any appetite. I've taken him to several therapy appointments with a social worker, but he seems to be more frustrated by the appointments than helped. The social worker thinks that he has social anxiety. She also thinks that his best bet is to date a girl at the school, but he keeps telling me that he doesn't like those girls at all. He also says he feels jealous of all his friends who have girlfriends and he wants a girlfriend so bad. What can I do? He's so sad.


You can't find him a girlfriend, but perhaps you should stick with the therapy. Even if he doesn't love it. He is going to have to navigate the majority of the romantic relationship world alone. And that includes learning to deal with sadness, impatience, and rejection.

you can make sure he is supported, especially with his social anxiety. I once met a grown man with severe social anxiety who I thought was gay. He asked me out, and in the end we did not get very far beyond friends because he clearly couldn't get a handle on the anxiety thing. So I suggest focusing on the anxiety.


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## MeepyCat

The problem here is social anxiety, and it will not be fixed by a girlfriend. Also, please keep in mind, as I have said to elsewhere about this very problem: a girlfriend is a person, with needs, wants, values, and concerns of her own. She is not an emotional bandaid that can be applied to fix your son.

You need to take a step back from your son's view of this issue.


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## Letitia

This is possibly the most upsetting and alarming post I have ever seen here. A kid whose *only* problem is he can't "find a girlfriend" is not crying and losing weight. Please, please take a step back from what your son is telling you in words to see and hear what he is telling you in other ways.

Kids who are *only *lonely for a girlfriend/boyfriend still spend time with their other friends. They have they activities they like to do. Maybe they don't like school, but they're out there in life. They don't cry a lot. They don't lose weight unless they are trying to. Absent economic hardship, unintentional weight loss (not explained by doing something like joining a new sport) almost always signals severe illness.

You are talking about HUGE red flags. Huge. Teens who are feeling this bad do kill themselves. If he's not clicking with the current therapist, try another. They can be hard to find, but maybe a male therapist? Keep trying until you find the right one.


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## fangaroo

I don't think he wants a girlfriend as an emotional bandage. The only reason he's feeling upset is because he's feeling very frustrated because he wants to be able to approach pretty girls and talk to them and ask them for their numbers, but is unable to do so because he feels too anxious. I think that he's become very sad because he sees all his friends with girlfriends and he really wants to do something to get a girlfriend but is feeling too afraid to do anything. Plus every time he hangs out with his friends he ends up feeling like a third wheel because they have their girlfriends with them. And when he wants to talk to them at school, his friends have their girlfriends with them then, too. And he's been wanting a girlfriend for a long time now, so I think he's just tired of waiting and thinks it's unfair that every other guy can ask a girl out and he can't.


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## Letitia

I'm going to be blunt. What would you like someone on this forum to do? Offer up a daughter or a pill that will change his social anxiety?

Actually, there _are_ drugs that abruptly affect social anxiety. Alcohol is one, benzodiazepines (Valium is an example) another, and opioids (oxycodone, heroin) yet another. You don't want him turning to one of those. Any medication originally marketed as an immediate panacea for anxiety (Miltown, Xanax) is highly addictive and potentially very harmful in the long run. The claims of a magic bullet came from the pharmaceutical industry, not science. There is nothing quick-acting you can purchase or do for him that will not expose him to more harm than benefit.

Social anxiety is a tough road, but he's going to have to walk his way on it. That's not going to happen if you focus on a missing girlfriend as being the problem.

Edited to correct a typo


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## moominmamma

fangaroo said:


> because he feels too anxious. ....I think he's just tired of waiting and thinks it's unfair....


You (and he) think that having a girlfriend would fix his problem, that his problem is "not having a girlfriend" and that if all his waiting for one ended and he had a girlfriend, that his problems would be gone.

This is what people are referring to as viewing a girlfriend as an emotional bandaid: you are both refusing to see that the problem _isn't the lack of a girlfriend_. The problems are anxiety, lack of maturity and quite possibly depression. That's what needs dealing with.

And you, assuming that you actually are a parent communicating about an actual issue, are enabling your son in avoiding his real issues by continually focusing on the girlfriend thing. You need to put the focus on his emotional and mental health issues.

Miranda


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## chickabiddy

fangaroo said:


> The only problem is that he wants a girlfriend, but has a hard time meeting new girls and asking them on dates because he has social anxiety disorder.


Girlfriends do not solve social anxiety disorder. He needs to address that FIRST (and I agree it sounds like he may have other issues as well) and then maybe he will be ready for a girlfriend.

A teen who cries and refuses to eat because he does not have a girlfriend is not emotionally healthy.


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## fangaroo

He is only depressed because he doesn't have a girlfriend. The entire reason he cares that he has social anxiety at all is because it's getting in the way of him having a girlfriend. In all other aspects of his life besides approaching girls he does not experience any anxiety, or if he does he can deal with it. He is only depressed because he feels like he is behind the romantic aspect of life because everyone else his age has been in a relationship. While it is important to somehow deal with his anxiety, there seems to be no clear path to doing so. Quite frankly, him not having a girlfriend is the entire problem. If he has a girlfriend, he does not care if he has social anxiety.


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## chickabiddy

I don't believe that's true. I believe there are other problems than not having a girlfriend.

But addressing the girlfriend issue? You say he wants to go up to pretty girls at the mall and ask for their phone numbers? I have a teenage daughter. I'd be furious if she gave her number to a stranger at the mall. If he wants a girlfriend he needs to get to know girls. Girls are people too. Girlfriends are people too.


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## moominmamma

chickabiddy said:


> A teen who cries and refuses to eat because he does not have a girlfriend is not emotionally healthy.


Yup, this.



fangaroo said:


> Quite frankly, him not having a girlfriend is the entire problem.


Nope, not this.


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## fangaroo

The issue is that he does not have a girlfriend. Are you going to give me any suggestions as to how to help him or are you just going to sit here (people who don't know him) and insist that there are other problems?


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## chickabiddy

Well, we're trying to help him by saying he needs more help. Healthy teens don't hang all their self-worth on a girlfriend (or a boyfriend).

But as far as the girlfriend issue -- you go to the mall to get shoes or jeans. You don't go to the mall to get a girlfriend. If he wants a girlfriend, he needs to get to know girls. His friends have girlfriends: maybe those girls have friends. Or he could join clubs or activities.


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## moominmamma

So has he got over the issue of finding every last girl at his school unattractive? He apparently has a twin sister who has friends who come over: does he socialize when they're around? Why are you talking about him going to the mall to get phone numbers? That's an approach right out of the 1980s. What about his online socializing? Why isn't that bridging past his social anxieties? 

I don't really buy any of this. The scenarios don't seem plausible. Not in this thread, not in either of your other ones.

Miranda


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## fangaroo

I don't know why these scenarios seem impossible to you. He goes to a small school and has been there since kindergarten. He's tired of the girls there and doesn't really know anyone outside of school. One of the places he's been trying to meet girls is at the mall. I honestly don't give a hoot if it seems like an approach out of the 1980s.


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## moominmamma

Answer my other questions, then ...

Why isn't social media helping him bridge past his anxiety? Is he attracted to any particular girls? What about his sister's friends and his social contact with those girls?

Miranda


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## chickabiddy

I guarantee that approaching girls he doesn't know at the mall to ask for their numbers is not going to assuage his social anxiety.

It seems like he needs some help with social skills as well as social anxiety.

There are no girls he likes at school, among his friends' girlfriends' friends, or among his sister's friends? Perhaps his standards are unreasonable.


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## Linda on the move

I call BS. For one thing, teen relationships ebb and flow, and you describe this situation as the same as last year. If this were grounded in reality AT ALL, he would have watched friends break up over the year, sometimes messily. It just isn't the case that all his friends have a girl friend and have had one since last and there has been zero drama.



fangaroo said:


> I think that he's become very sad because he sees all his friends with girlfriends and he really wants to do something to get a girlfriend but is feeling too afraid to do anything. Plus every time he hangs out with his friends he ends up feeling like a third wheel because they have their girlfriends with them. And when he wants to talk to them at school, his friends have their girlfriends with them then, too.


The next reason if that he is completely opposed to the girls at his school, yet he wants to have a girlfriend at school so he won't be a third wheel. That doesn't make sense.

Also, I know the diagnostic criteria for social anxiety disorder. Just being afraid to approach people one finds sexually attractive is NOT a social anxiety disorder. It's really pretty normal.



fangaroo said:


> The entire reason he cares that he has social anxiety at all is because it's getting in the way of him having a girlfriend. In all other aspects of his life besides approaching girls he does not experience any anxiety, or if he does he can deal with it.


You can't have it both ways. You can't say he has social anxiety disorder but the only problem is lack of a girl friend, because that isn't enough to qualify for the diagnosis. So which is it? Does he have other problems as well, or it is just about girls (and therefore NOT an anxiety disorder).

And last, approaching people one doesn't know and asking for their number is creepy behavior. It's a ridiculous way to go about finding someone to date.


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## MeepyCat

I've had guys approach me for phone numbers, and my answer is "I don't give that out." My daughter is six, and she has already internalized don't give your phone number to strangers as a safety rule. So asking girls at the mall for their numbers is not gonna make your son feel better. 

Also: You have to take a parental step back. No! Not all seventeen year-olds have had romantic relationships. Some of them aren't interested, some of them aren't lucky, some of them are in target-poor environments like your son's small school. And those kids, the ones who aren't dating at 17, they wind up fine.

Want a list of stupid things that teenage romances have involved? They don't make life better, generally, they just add a source of drama to the general teen hormonal haze. Sometimes that feels good. More often, it's a mess. There's angst and misunderstandings and misbehavior, plus academic distraction and risk of pregnancy, injury and disease. 

If this kid was a girl longing for a boyfriend, there is no community of mothers imaginable that wouldn't be telling her to buck up and build her own good life. In this instance, I think your son needs less sympathy and a reminder that sex isn't everything.


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## WallaWallaMamma

moominmamma said:


> You (and he) think that having a girlfriend would fix his problem, that his problem is "not having a girlfriend" and that if all his waiting for one ended and he had a girlfriend, that his problems would be gone.
> 
> This is what people are referring to as viewing a girlfriend as an emotional bandaid: you are both refusing to see that the problem _isn't the lack of a girlfriend_. The problems are anxiety, lack of maturity and quite possibly depression. That's what needs dealing with.
> 
> And you, assuming that you actually are a parent communicating about an actual issue, are enabling your son in avoiding his real issues by continually focusing on the girlfriend thing. You need to put the focus on his emotional and mental health issues.
> 
> Miranda


I second moomminmamma in that this seems implausible, too consistent in narrative, and lacking in context. And while I hate to say this to a stranger, I just don't imagine most mothers are so misguided about their kids issues. is this some kind of sick joke?


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## WallaWallaMamma

moominmamma said:


> You (and he) think that having a girlfriend would fix his problem, that his problem is "not having a girlfriend" and that if all his waiting for one ended and he had a girlfriend, that his problems would be gone.
> 
> This is what people are referring to as viewing a girlfriend as an emotional bandaid: you are both refusing to see that the problem _isn't the lack of a girlfriend_. The problems are anxiety, lack of maturity and quite possibly depression. That's what needs dealing with.
> 
> And you, assuming that you actually are a parent communicating about an actual issue, are enabling your son in avoiding his real issues by continually focusing on the girlfriend thing. You need to put the focus on his emotional and mental health issues.
> 
> Miranda


I second moomminmamma in that this seems implausible, too consistent in narrative, and lacking in context. And while I hate to say this to a stranger, I just don't imagine most mothers are so misguided about their kids issues. is this some kind of sick joke?


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## oldsmom

fangaroo said:


> My 17 year old son has been depressed for awhile now because he's never had a girlfriend. ... He's tried going to the mall to look for girls, but he also has social anxiety disorder, and he feels to anxious to walk up to a girl, talk to her and ask for her number. He tried joining a club at another school, but he feels the same anxiety about talking to pretty girls.


You have just summed up the teen-age experience. Every teen goes through this at least sometimes.

Shoot, I personally didn't have a boyfriend until I was 19 - for the very same reason.

My questions are:
What kind of teen years did you have if you didn't experience this?
Why does your son have a social worker?
What does your son's father think of the situation?


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## Letitia

WallaWallaMam, I've been wondering the same thing.


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## fangaroo

My husband just thinks that my son should date a girl who goes to his school, but my son just complains that he does not like any girl who goes to his school and has no interest at all in them. I think the reason it is especially hard for him to talk to girls is because he has a fear of being judged by his peers when they're not really judging him; he also starts feeling abnormally anxious at the prospect of having to approach a pretty girl (pounding heart, sweating hands).
He goes to a private school, and there isn't very much drama at all. Most of the kids stay in relationships for several years. I wish that rather than trying to nitpick and what I'm saying that people would just give me suggestions for helping him. I've tried telling him to focus on school and everything but he does not care. He says he's already doing well (he is) and just wants a girlfriend. My husband and I don't know what to tell him and we need help, because nothing has helped and he's quite sad.


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## TCMoulton

fangaroo said:


> My husband and I don't know what to tell him and we need help, because nothing has helped and he's quite sad.


This is the perfect opportunity to find him a therapist - someone he can talk to and trust who isn't his parents or teachers


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## fangaroo

He's been to a therapist and the therapist has not helped him.


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## chickabiddy

fangaroo said:


> I wish that rather than trying to nitpick and what I'm saying that people would just give me suggestions for helping him.


Like the others, I believe that there is much more going on and it's not helping your son for you to be invested in the idea that a girlfriend will solve everything.

However, I advised in this thread and in the last thread that if he doesn't like the girls in his school he needs to find a way to meet new girls. He should look into some clubs or activities where he could meet people, including girls, with whom he shares common interests. Going to the mall and asking girls for their numbers is not going to be productive or raise his self-esteem.


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## moominmamma

fangaroo said:


> I wish ... that people would just give me suggestions for helping him.


People are. You're just not listening.

Stop feeding his obsession. Stop buying into the idea that a girlfriend will fix what ails him. Get him treatment for his social anxiety and depression. You are making things worse by trying to help him find a girlfriend. He needs to move past this immature and shallow obsession over "having a girlfriend," and so do you. If the current social-worker counselling isn't helping, try different therapists.

Miranda


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## fangaroo

I don't care what you think. The only issue is that he wants a girlfriend and cannot find one because he does not like any girl who goes to his school and there aren't really any clubs for him to join. Stop saying that he has other issues BECAUSE HE DOES NOT. The only help he needs is help finding a girlfriend. Once again, the troubles he's having are the result of him wanting a girlfriend and not being able to find one.


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## meeshbenson

well isn't he about to go to college? maybe he'll meet new people there


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## chickabiddy

fangaroo said:


> I don't care what you think. The only issue is that he wants a girlfriend and cannot find one because he does not like any girl who goes to his school and there aren't really any clubs for him to join. Stop saying that he has other issues BECAUSE HE DOES NOT. The only help he needs is help finding a girlfriend. Once again, the troubles he's having are the result of him wanting a girlfriend and not being able to find one.


No. Mentally healthy people do not cry repeatedly and refuse to eat because they do not have a girlfriend.

Chances are he'll have better luck finding a girlfriend if he gets himself in a better place mentally, anyhow. Desperation is not attractive to the opposite sex.


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## Linda on the move

chickabiddy said:


> Mentally healthy people do not cry repeatedly and refuse to eat because they do not have a girlfriend.


I agree with this. Mentally healthy people who are not in relationships enjoy their lives and follow their interests. Even if they would *prefer* to be in a relationship, they still embrace their own life.

Right now, your son is wreck, and getting into a relationship isn't going to fix it. He'll just be a wreck in a relationship. Most likely the girl will dump him. The only other option is for him to find some one who is just as much of a wreck as he is and form a dysfunctional co-dependent relationship together.

Relationships aren't a cure for depression. They can temporarily mask it, but they don't cure it.

Part of his problem is that you buy into his nonsense instead of helping him develop a more mature and healthy view of the situation. You asked what to do, and this is my advice. Stop buying into his distorted view of reality and feeling sorry for him, and keep taking him to therapy.


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## Chaika

I understand that it is very hard to see your kid hurting, andd I understand the desire to fix it for him. But I don't think parents really can (or should) find girlfriends (or boyfriends) for their teenaged kids, or really do anything to facilitate that process other than helping the kid get involved in social activities. My local library system has clubs for teens. Maybe you could ask your library if they have such a thing, and if not, would they be willing to start one? 

When I was a teen I really wanted a boyfriend. I thought my life would feel complete if I had one. I can see now that what I really wanted was the sense that someone was choosing me, because I feared I was unattractive and unlovable. I did find a boyfriend at 17, and he was a man in his mid-twenties. For a while I was over the moon with this situation, however, in the end it led to more problems for me due to the inappropriate age gap. Just because a teenager really wants something, doesn't mean they are necessarily ready for it or should have it. 

The teenage years can be very difficult. Sometimes all you can do is listen and offer support.


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## MeepyCat

I literally cannot believe that kids at your children's school have low-drama romantic relationships that usually last for several years. As much as teen drama doesn't make teen lives better, teen romantic judgment tends to be flawed. Better that teens should change partners and learn to survive heartbreak than stick with the choices they made at 14 even when they're a bad fit.

Your son, as described, is a terrible relationship prospect, and you are doing him no favors by being so uncritical about his approach to this issue. Your son is looking for a unicorn - for a new, beautiful woman to wander along, look at the sad mess he currently is, and bestow herself upon him to heal his pain. This will not happen, and it shouldn't happen. 

This kid needs therapy, not sympathy. Both you and your son need to remember that women are people with agency, not props in men's lives.


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## oldsmom

fangaroo said:


> I don't care what you think. The only issue is that he wants a girlfriend and cannot find one because he does not like any girl who goes to his school and there aren't really any clubs for him to join. Stop saying that he has other issues BECAUSE HE DOES NOT. The only help he needs is help finding a girlfriend. Once again, the troubles he's having are the result of him wanting a girlfriend and not being able to find one.


You have said this kid is doing well in school, and the only problem is social anxiety. If this truly the case, then STOP WORRYING.

There are people of all ages who wish they had a significant other, and don't. That is just part of life. You aren't helping him by coddling his sadness. He needs to just get over it and find a full life outside of having a girlfriend.

As I mentioned before, I didn't start dating until I was 19 because of social anxiety. In retrospect, I feel blessed and thankful for it. I had a wonderful high school experience because I wasn't worrying about making a boyfriend happy. I participated in clubs, and just had fun with my friends.

You really need some perspective. What you are complaining about is NOT a problem.


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## stormborn

For the love of all that's holy, lady, give it up. You've been at this for almost a year and gotten many, many sane responses from people in all walks of life with different perspectives, none of which you'll even consider. You won't accept anything short of a mailorder bride or the offer of someone's firstborn daughter delivered to your doorstep.
FFS, go spew your crazy somewhere else.


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## fangaroo

I do not understand why you have to attack everything I say as opposed to considering what I'm saying and giving a response that would be helpful. I've told you several times that he's only depressed because he wants a girlfriend and yet you continue to say that getting a girlfriend won't help the issue. I don't really agree with your statement that emotionally healthy people don't cry because they want a girlfriend. He's wanted a girlfriend for several years and he's become extremely frustrated at this point, especially because he hasn't met any girl he likes yet and everyone else has started dating. What does it take for the people on this website to give a real answer as opposed to all this "he's an emotional wreck" and "has to deal with other problems first." There ARE NO OTHER PROBLEMS. This is the ONLY PROBLEM. Please just address the fact that he needs a girlfriend! Just tell me what he can do to get a girlfriend, since the only thing he's doing (going to the mall) is so objectionable!


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## MeepyCat

Oh my god.

GIRLFRIENDS ARE PEOPLE.

You do not "get" or "find" a romantic partner, you meet them, get to know them, court them, and they get to make decisions whether they want to be, or stay, involved.

One of the many problems with these posts, and there have been three of them now, and they have always gone the same, is that you talk as though, if your son could just acquire this one thing, he'd be fine, and the thing you're talking about is a person. Who can also make choices - like not dating your son. Who doesn't seem to be bringing anything particularly appealing to the table. Why would any young woman choose to date HIM particularly, especially sice he's already rejected all the girls he actually sees every day?


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## heyxxmcfly

After reading through, it seems as though Fangaroo wants to find said "girlfriend" on here. Or even have someone suggest their child so that her son doesn't have to actually work to get to know someone and come to care for them like a mentally healthy individual would. There is no answer to your question Fangaroo. There is no quick fix. You're better off trying this trolling elsewhere. But good luck with your son. I know if I was still in high school I would purposely walk the other way from a boy like you're describing. Ain't nobody got time to fix someone else when they don't even know fully who they are themselves

**Always sending lots of hugs!


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## moominmamma

Yes the objectification of The Elusive Girlfriend is offensive. He doesn't even seem to be attracted to any real girls, but he wants one anyway, for the status I assume. It's not unusual to want a girlfriend or to struggle with social approach skills. What's unusual is to have these issues without the starting point being attraction to a particular girl or girls. There's something really off about that. To want something you aren't even attracted to, and to want it so badly that it is ruining your life? What the heck is going on here? The scenario makes no sense. 

Miranda


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## meowmix

fangaroo said:


> I do not understand why you have to attack everything I say as opposed to considering what I'm saying and giving a response that would be helpful. I've told you several times that he's only depressed because he wants a girlfriend and yet you continue to say that getting a girlfriend won't help the issue. I don't really agree with your statement that emotionally healthy people don't cry because they want a girlfriend. He's wanted a girlfriend for several years and he's become extremely frustrated at this point, especially because he hasn't met any girl he likes yet and everyone else has started dating. What does it take for the people on this website to give a real answer as opposed to all this "he's an emotional wreck" and "has to deal with other problems first." There ARE NO OTHER PROBLEMS. This is the ONLY PROBLEM. Please just address the fact that he needs a girlfriend! Just tell me what he can do to get a girlfriend, since the only thing he's doing (going to the mall) is so objectionable!


OK. I'll take the bait even though this thread is kind of strange and I'm kind of agreeing with moominmamma. There's not a whole lot you can personally do to get your son a girlfriend. Really. And dating is a want, not a need. He doesn't really NEED a girlfriend just the same as I don't really NEED a fifth cup of coffee or a 3rd dog. Those are wants. This is kind of his own issue to deal with. Is he not attracted to the girls at his school because of their personalities? Or because of their looks? Does he have a job or hobbies in which he can meet other girls outside of his school? Has he tried hanging out with the girls at his school platonically to see if anything starts from there? It sounds a little, from this thread, that he is expecting some sort of instant attraction "love at first sight" type of thing. When I was in high school, some of the guys I dated were friends in our friend group/clique. It was really casual (I wasn't sleeping around) and if we stopped dating, no biggie. None of my friends in high school felt it necessary to date someone- neither my guy or girl friends.

What qualities is he looking for in a girlfriend?


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## moominmamma

The other thing that occurred to me, on the off-chance that the scenario is real as described, is that the boy is gay. That could explain why he is so emotionally over-wrought over an issue that usually starts with attraction but in this case doesn't seem to involve attraction at all, why he views having a girlfriend as something that would somehow solve whatever internal struggles he's having, why he sees it as such a necessary part of him being a normal teen.

Miranda


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## fangaroo

He says he does not like any girls he knows because of their personalities. Why you think something must be off for a teenage boy to want a girlfriend even if he doesn't like any girls he knows is beyond me. In addition, I'm not sure why you think he wants a girlfriend solely for social standing. I've told you several times that he feels sad because he sees his friends with girlfriends and he constantly feels like a third wheel. He has also said that he would like to have a girl to kiss and hug and cuddle with. If you don't believe me, that's your business. But please just reply to the question. I've asked him before if he's gay and he seemed offended and told me that he is not gay. I believe that he's not. I don't understand the obsession on this website with attacking everything I say and complaining that it doesn't make any sense rather than simply addressing the problem at hand. He does not have a job or anything..


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## moominmamma

fangaroo said:


> But please just reply to the question.


The question was "What can I do?"

Many people have replied to this question. They have advised:

1. Get him help for his mental health, for his "extreme depression" (appetite loss, lots of crying, anxiety). Change therapists, consider a male therapist, consider CBT, consider family therapy.
2. Completely de-emphasize the girlfriend issue.

This advice has come over and over and over again: the chorus is unanimous and resounding and persistent. If you go back and read the thread from last year it's the same thing there.

1. Deal with his emotional issues.
2. Stop focusing on a girlfriend as the issue.

Just because you don't like the answers you're getting doesn't mean people aren't answering. You've got your hands over your ears.

Miranda


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## ismewilde

Is your son heading down this path?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/24/us/california-shooting-suspect/

Because that kid blamed everything on not getting a girlfriend that he wanted, he had terrible trouble asking them out...

His parents knew he had issues...

You can't fix this one with a girlfriend. He needs serious, long term, therapy with a highly qualified, knowledgeable therapist to get to the root of his very low self esteem.


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## chickabiddy

moominmamma said:


> The question was "What can I do?"
> 
> Many people have replied to this question. They have advised:
> 
> 1. Get him help for his mental health, for his "extreme depression" (appetite loss, lots of crying, anxiety). Change therapists, consider a male therapist, consider CBT, consider family therapy.
> 2. Completely de-emphasize the girlfriend issue.
> 
> This advice has come over and over and over again: the chorus is unanimous and resounding and persistent. If you go back and read the thread from last year it's the same thing there.
> 
> 1. Deal with his emotional issues.
> 2. Stop focusing on a girlfriend as the issue.
> 
> Just because you don't like the answers you're getting doesn't mean people aren't answering. You've got your hands over your ears.
> 
> Miranda


All this. And don't harass girls at the mall.


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## fangaroo

He doesn't have any issues to deal with so stop telling me to get him help with those issues. THE ONLY ISSUE IS THAT HE DOES NOT HAVE A GIRLFRIEND. Do you have ANY suggestions for how he can find a girlfriend? Or are you just going to prattle on with this emotional issues b.s.?


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## MeepyCat

fangaroo said:


> He doesn't have any issues to deal with so stop telling me to get him help with those issues. THE ONLY ISSUE IS THAT HE DOES NOT HAVE A GIRLFRIEND. Do you have ANY suggestions for how he can find a girlfriend? Or are you just going to prattle on with this emotional issues b.s.?


No. I have no suggestions for how he can find a girlfriend.

I have no suggestions for how _anyone_ who dislikes the personalities of _every girl he has actually met_ can find a girlfriend. I don't think anyone does, and I am quite certain that no one _should_. The idea that a teenager who actively dislikes young women would benefit from having a girlfriend is poisonous BS. After you reject all of your dating options, what you are left with is not dating, not having a girlfriend, and probably choosing not to hang out with your friends when their girlfriends are along, because nothing emphasizes the feeling of being a third wheel like watching your friends make time with people whose personalities you dislike.

What you get out of a people is related to what you bring to them. If you approach all the girls in your small, private high school with an attitude of general dislike, they are going to generally dislike you right back. And then you will not have a girlfriend until sometime after you graduate and start hanging out with an entirely different group of people, who you approach differently. Actions have consequences. This is one of the ways that works.


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## chickabiddy

I do not agree that he does not have emotional issues. Crying and refusing to eat are emotional issues. I am single and I eat.

I do agree that he is not in a great place emotionally to "get" a girlfriend right now. I would suggest that if he wants a girlfriend in the future, he should work on making himself more attractive to girls. Desperation and insecurity are not attractive. Neither are impossibly high standards, and if he hasn't ever met a girl he deems worthy of dating, I suspect his standards are not realistic.


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## moominmamma

chickabiddy said:


> I am single and I eat.


:twothumbs :rotflmao

Miranda


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## fangaroo

He does not approach them with an attitude of dislike. He's nice to everyone and most everyone seems to like him. He has a lot of friends, and I know at least a few girls have flirted with him, he just wasn't interested in them. He's just not attracted to any girl at the school and he's become frustrated, that's all. He does not have impossibly high standards, he just hasn't found any girl that he naturally has feelings for, I don't think that it's his fault. The difference between you and him not eating is that he's NEVER had any relationship of any kind. He's never held hands with a girl, he's never kissed a girl and he's 17. He doesn't want to be with a girl he doesn't have feelings for, and that's all that's available at school. It's not like he's not trying, he hangs out with a lot of girls from school, he just doesn't have any feelings for them. I think he's sad because he can't find a girl who he's got feelings for.


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## Chaika

Okay, here's my practical advice. He should read some feminist writing. Even if it's feminist blogs written by young women around his age (which might actually be better, and more applicable to his current stage of life than, say, Gloria Steinem or bell hooks or whatever). The more he understands the experiences of women, the better his odds for not only finding a quality relationship, but also being a better partner someday.


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## oldsmom

fangaroo said:


> He does not approach them with an attitude of dislike. He's nice to everyone and most everyone seems to like him. He has a lot of friends, and I know at least a few girls have flirted with him, he just wasn't interested in them. He's just not attracted to any girl at the school and he's become frustrated, that's all. He does not have impossibly high standards, he just hasn't found any girl that he naturally has feelings for, I don't think that it's his fault. The difference between you and him not eating is that he's NEVER had any relationship of any kind. He's never held hands with a girl, he's never kissed a girl and he's 17. He doesn't want to be with a girl he doesn't have feelings for, and that's all that's available at school. It's not like he's not trying, he hangs out with a lot of girls from school, he just doesn't have any feelings for them. I think he's sad because he can't find a girl who he's got feelings for.


I was that way about boys. I was 19 years old before I ever even kissed a boy. But I didn't let that define my life. And my parents didn't make a big deal about it.

If they had, I might have been more upset.

Are you the one making your son self-conscious about not having a girlfriend? You seem to be awfully focused on this. It could be what is actually the cause of the stress.


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## fangaroo

I don't make a big deal out of it at all. He is the one that starts talking about it all the time. He just wants a girl to cuddle with and hold hands with and kiss. He's also just wants a cute girl to go watch movies and stuff with and he's sad that he doesn't have a girl. I don't know what to tell him because he keeps saying he doesn't want to wait until college. Is there something I can get him to do to find a girl?


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## chickabiddy

GIRLS ARE PEOPLE.

He can't "have a girl" or "find a girl" like he can find a cool new hoodie.

We've told you over and over.

First he needs to get stable, which he clearly is not. Then he needs to involve himself in clubs, activities, sports, work, or volunteer service where he can meet PEOPLE he likes and wants to be friends with. Some of those people might be female. And perhaps a mutual romantic connection may develop.


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## Linda on the move

fangaroo said:


> I don't make a big deal out of it at all. He is the one that starts talking about it all the time. He just wants a girl to cuddle with and hold hands with and kiss. He's also just wants a cute girl to go watch movies and stuff with and he's sad that he doesn't have a girl. I don't know what to tell him because he keeps saying he doesn't want to wait until college. Is there something I can get him to do to find a girl?


hire one. there are young women who will pretend to like him, kiss him and such, for mere money.


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## moominmamma

Linda on the move said:


> hire one. there are young women who will pretend to like him, kiss him and such, for mere money.


I've been thinking the exact same thing all through this thread. If you want someone to kiss and cuddle who will help you avoid appearing single in social situations, but you aren't actually drawn to forming a relationship with anyone and aren't interested in the personal development that would allow you to be both attractive and attracted .... what you want is an escort.

Miranda


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## MeepyCat

What is your son getting out of whining to you about this issue? Maternal sympathy wasn't that exciting to me at seventeen, is he working you for something?


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## meowmix

You can't solve this problem. This is his own problem. And his expectations are unrealistic. You could empathize with him but don't own his problem. omg, my son would be mortified if I tried to find him a girl friend. He was horrified enough when I mentioned to him that he should ask his friend's sister (whom he likes) to homecoming. The fact that I was even thinking about it was enough for him to tell me not to say stuff like that to him and that if he wanted to ask her, he would but he didn't want me pestering him about it. I immediately backed off. And he didn't ask her because he wasn't brave enough and he decided not to go to homecoming. And it wasn't my problem. It sounds callous but really, it's not your issue. We were all kids once and navigating those waters and our parents weren't out there finding us dates (at least mine weren't).


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## fangaroo

Look, I just want a reasonable answer to a reasonable question. If you don't believe that my question is true, fine. But don't keep ranting and raving about how the scenario doesn't make sense and throwing out b.s. replies like buy him an escort. I want to know where i can take him so that he can find a girlfriend, since it's sooo creepy to ask a girl for her number at the mall (even though a lot of teenage boys do this). Where can he go to meet some girls who like the same things as him (reading, writing, and classical music)? He's tried the library and bookstore but hasn't met anyone. DON'T REPLY WITH HE HAS TO TAKE CARE OF EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS FIRST. DON'T REPLY WITH SOMETHING ABOUT FEMINISM. DON'T REPLY WITH THE SCENARIO DOESN'T MAKE SENSE (I DON'T CARE IF IT MAKES SENSE TO YOU, IT'S THE TRUTH). JUST GIVE ME A REASONABLE ANSWER, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!


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## meowmix

Um... there have been a lot of reasonable answers on this thread? In fact, I asked you what activities he was in that might allow him to meet people outside of his school but you didn't answer that. But not knowing you or where you live, none of us can give any specific advice about specific activities. Just general advice. Does he play an instrument since he likes classical music? Can he join orchestra or something? Is he in any local book clubs? His sister likes to read- can he meet friends through her? Has he tried writing forums and meeting people online?


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## Chaika

Maybe this is the wrong place to ask if you're not getting any responses you like.


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## moominmamma

He needs to build a life for himself, to become an interesting person with talents and passions and interests that put him into contact with people who value the same things.

I have a 17-year-old. She is a volunteer tutor and TA at school. She is involved in social justice work. She was Vice President of the local Youth Centre Society for 2 years. She sings in a fabulous auditioned youth choir, as well as in a chamber choir of college-age students, she is one of a handful of older teens mentoring a children's choir. She plays violin and does occasional orchestral and chamber music performances with other teens and adults. She works part-time at a café with a bunch of other young people. She does cool things that take her out of her comfort zone like taking an introductory ballroom dance class, or showing up at the local tech club / makerspace to learn something about robotics from anyone (including 11-year-old Lego-geek boys) who will teach her.

She's not particularly interested in having a boyfriend; she's dated in the past but is busy with other stuff right now and doesn't want romantic distractions. But she has close friendships with lots of guys, people she likes and shares interests with ... because she has actively and creatively pursued her interests and put herself out there.

If your son wants to meet more young people who share his interests, _he needs to put time and energy into something other than himself_. He needs to expand his social circles, his community-mindedness, his competence and his depth as a human being. You meet interesting young people by being and interesting young person who leads an interesting life.

Miranda


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## MeepyCat

fangaroo said:


> Look, I just want a reasonable answer to a reasonable question. If you don't believe that my question is true, fine. But don't keep ranting and raving about how the scenario doesn't make sense and throwing out b.s. replies like buy him an escort. I want to know where i can take him so that he can find a girlfriend, since it's sooo creepy to ask a girl for her number at the mall (even though a lot of teenage boys do this). Where can he go to meet some girls who like the same things as him (reading, writing, and classical music)? He's tried the library and bookstore but hasn't met anyone. DON'T REPLY WITH HE HAS TO TAKE CARE OF EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS FIRST. DON'T REPLY WITH SOMETHING ABOUT FEMINISM. DON'T REPLY WITH THE SCENARIO DOESN'T MAKE SENSE (I DON'T CARE IF IT MAKES SENSE TO YOU, IT'S THE TRUTH). JUST GIVE ME A REASONABLE ANSWER, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!


You actually don't have a reasonable question. That's the problem. One of the problems. This is not a reasonable question.

You know where your son might meet girls who share his interests? School. The building he goes to every day, where even if the school is tiny, there have to be 50 or so young women within reasonable striking distance of his age who he has an opportunity to get to know socially before asking them on a date. But he goes there every day and he has rejected all of those. So his next reasonable option might be to join an orchestra, or a book club, or a church choir.

YOU describe this child as "extremely depressed." Is he really? Because if this is his only problem, I think he's just having normal teen frustration and you should leave him to it.


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## Linda on the move

moominmamma said:


> The other thing that occurred to me, on the off-chance that the scenario is real as described, is that the boy is gay. That could explain why he is so emotionally over-wrought over an issue that usually starts with attraction but in this case doesn't seem to involve attraction at all, why he views having a girlfriend as something that would somehow solve whatever internal struggles he's having, why he sees it as such a necessary part of him being a normal teen.
> 
> Miranda


The more I think about it, the more I think this is the only explanation that accounts for the facts as the OPer describes them. It isn't just that he's never had a girl friend, it's that he's never felt attracted to a real girl. Never had a crush. Never found one that he wanted to flirt with or ask out. He sees having a girl friend as a super normal thing, and wants to start experimenting with his sexuality, but feels ZERO attraction to actual girls.

he's gay.

My advice - help him pick a big liberal college far from home so he can become who is really is instead of trying to squish himself into the tiny box he's forced into in a small town -- going to a small school, most likely with a lot of very closed minded people. Hopefully, he'll meet a nice boy and settle down.

Beyond that, stay the heck out of his love life. It isn't a zone that mothers should spend much time (if any) time in.


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## MeepyCat

He might also be struggling with asexuality.

In any case, I think Linda's suggestions - help him pick a liberal college, and stay out of his love life - are the right ones.


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## oldsmom

moominmamma said:


> I've been thinking the exact same thing all through this thread. If you want someone to kiss and cuddle who will help you avoid appearing single in social situations, but you aren't actually drawn to forming a relationship with anyone and aren't interested in the personal development that would allow you to be both attractive and attracted .... what you want is an escort.
> 
> Miranda


They made a movie about that...


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## fangaroo

I've asked him if he's gay and he just says that he's not gay and has never felt any attraction to a boy. He said he's been physically attracted to girls, he just doesn't like their personalities, and that he's pretty sure he's straight. He has a hobby (he loves to write and he's written 20 novels, some have been around 500 pages) but they're solitary and he's never met any girl like him or any girl that he feels a connection with. It's not that he doesn't have any talents or passions, it's that it's hard to find a girl who is like him especially at this age. I don't think he's going to find a cute girl who also has written novels. And even if he could, I'm not sure where he could find such a girl. You don't have to believe him, but I believe that he's straight and just hasn't met any girl whose personality he thinks is interesting. It's also not like he isn't interesting. He's told me that he 's told girls that he's written novels and they think that that's really cool, but he doesn't find those girls to be interesting. I'm also not butting into his love life. He's just been sad because he can't find a girl he likes and he's asked me for advice on how to find one since our town is pretty small.


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## Letitia

Are you able to afford things like summer camps in other places? There are tons of camps these days focused on specific interests - there have to be writing camps out there. If not, does he work? Any reason he can't work to make money to pay for experiences out of town? No guarantee he'd meet someone he likes, but if your town is that small and he's not clicking with anybody there, then he's got to broaden his horizons.


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## Linda on the move

fangaroo said:


> He said he's been physically attracted to girls, he just doesn't like their personalities, and that he's pretty sure he's straight


This is a weird sentence. You son doesn't have ANY female friends? There are zero girls whose personalities he likes? He's "pretty sure" he's straight?

None of this causes you concern (besides the fact that you can't just order him a girl friend from Amazon)?


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## MeepyCat

So maybe now is a good time for him to focus on his writing and on college applications and not date. Plenty of people do that.


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## moominmamma

He has guy friends, so he likes the personalities of a fair portion of his male peers, but he doesn't like the personalities of _any_ of his female peers? That seems a little improbable, that in a random assortment of, oh, let's guess, maybe two dozen guys and two dozen girls at his school, he finds the personalities of a bunch of the guys appealing, but not a single one of the girls. It's what raises the question of whether there's something else going on to make him (a) so unwilling to consider any of the girls he knows, so unattracted to every last one and (b) so desperate to prove himself a mainstream teenage boy by having a relationship with a girl.

And ... I keep asking this and not getting an answer, but what about his sister? Doesn't he hang out with her and with her friends? Are they twins? I have a son and daughter who are close in age and they share a ton of friends of both genders, which has really widened their social worlds, helped them be confident with the opposite gender, and has led to all sorts of relationship prospects. Can't his sister be a bit of a social emissary for him?

Miranda


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## salr

Tell him he's not going to find a girl in his hometown. 

He's going to have to go someplace else. If you want to help, you could help him get out of town as fast as possible.

I'm sure he'll find someone when he gets to a location with more people. He'll meet people who think he's awesome and do interesting things themselves.


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## fangaroo

He is not gay. You misunderstand what I meant when I said he doesn't like any of these girls' personalities. He likes them fine as friends, but they don't have personalities that he's attracted to at all. His sister is very introverted and only has about 2 friends. He's already been accepted to his first choice college, and he would like to find a girl. I can find writing camps and things, but he's going to college in the fall and that won't help him find a girl he likes now. I don't know of things that he can do right now to get a girlfriend. He doesn't want to wait until the summer or until he gets to college.


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## Snydley

Hmm..I'll chime in here-

I wonder if he's just really upset that he hasn't KISSED a girl, not that he doesn't have a girfriend per se. I remember being 15 and never been kissed and it really really bothered me a lot. I can understand a 17 year old boy not wanting to go to college without ever kissed anyone. 

Again, like others have said, not much you can do about it. Encourage him to join new clubs/activities if he doesn't like the girls at school. There's not many other options, besides the internet which I certainly wouldn't encourage.


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## salr

It sounds like it's really hard for maybe the both of you to accept that he's not going to find a girlfriend for the remainder of his time at high school. 

I suppose he could choose to lower his standards. Maybe he could go on a couple dates with girls he's not interested in just for practice.


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## MeepyCat

He could ask one of those girls he likes as a friend to come to a movie or something, as friends, or he could acknowledge that if he's not attracted to the young women he knows, he'll just have to be patient.

I went to a small high school, with people I'd known since kindergarten. It was pretty openly acknowledged that it was tough to be attracted to people you remembered eating sand with. You just have to find yourself a bigger pond, and a awy to let people get to know you. That isn't mediated by your mom.

Or you could be back here in 4-5 months, acting (again and still) like a girlfriend is some kind of personal appliance.


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## fangaroo

I know that he has to wait, but when I tell him that he just gets frustrated. He complains that all his friends didn't have to wait to get kissed or have a girlfriend and he doesn't get why he should have to wait. I've told him to do things with girls as friends, but he says he's tired of doing things with girls as friends and that he wants something romantic with a girl. I told him he should join clubs and things, but he complains that there aren't any clubs in our area. I've told him he may find a girl in college, but he rolls his eyes and says he probably not going to find any girl h wants there, either. He also said he's tired of hearing this stupid b.s. and that he just wants a girlfriend right now. He's extremely upset because he thinks it's ridiculous that all his friends get to have a girlfriend and he can't even find a girl he likes.


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## moominmamma

fangaroo said:


> He also said he's tired of hearing this stupid b.s. and that he just wants a girlfriend right now. He's extremely upset because he thinks it's ridiculous that all his friends get to have a girlfriend and he can't even find a girl he likes.


Honestly, as you describe it here he sounds like a toddler who is upset he has to wait until after supper to have a brownie. Good lord...

Miranda


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## MeepyCat

Learning to deal with frustration is a necessary part of becoming an adult.

He's frustrated. That's tough, but it's life. There are going to be lots of frustrations in his life, and he is just going to have to deal with many of them, including this one. If he was a toddler throwing a tantrum over candy, I would hope you would have tuned it out. The subject matter is more mature here, but his response isn't. This is a tantrum over a more grown-up version of candy.

Your son's friends "get to have girlfriends" (phrase in quotes because of the essential BS-ness of the concepts when applied to _relationships between people_), because they somehow managed, in their own heads, to get over the fact that the young women they spend time with every day are young women they have been watching chew their hair and bite their nails since everyone involved was five. Or get over the fact that they don't go to high school with novel-writing clones of Claudia Schiffer. I don't know what the heck your son is holding out for, but whatever it is, it is not preventing him from laying claim to something he's entitled to. The universe does not have a contract to dole out romantic partners to all of us as soon as we want them.

I don't think we always do our children favors by responding to the intensity of their distress instead of the actual real-life seriousness of their concerns. I think that you have bought into your son's distress, and the results are bad for him as well as for you. You should never have catered to this concern in the first place, and the healthiest thing to do now would be to stop catering to it.

If he can power through writing a 500+ page novel, he should have the internal fortitude to take a friend to prom, and/or power through the school year single. He should have the introspection to recognize that whining about his problem isn't helping him. He should have the empathy to see that "my teenage son doesn't have a partner for emotional theatrics and sexual experimentation!" is parental victory. If he lacks these things, perhaps some work on these areas might eventually help hi appear more attractive to the kind of young woman he wants to be involved with, should he ever actually meet such a creature.


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## fangaroo

I don't know why you have to be rude about it. It's a very normal thing to want a girlfriend, especially at his age when he sees other people in relationships. And that sexual experimentation is part of growing up. It's what's going to make him be mature when he wants to have a sexual experience later on in life. I don't know why it is so bad or immature for him to want a girlfriend badly. I know of people who are older than him who want relationships just as badly as he does. I'm sure it has to be extremely frustrating to be told for 4 years of your life that you can't have this thing that other people have yet and you have to wait. He's been waiting for all of high school and still has no girlfriend. I don't think it's a question of other guys getting over the fact that they're dating these same girls that they've known since kindergarten as much as THEY ARE ATTRACTED TO THESE GIRLS and he is NOT. Same goes for them getting over the fact that they don't go to school with girls who write novels. I'm sure they've been able to find girls who like things that are big parts of their lives (like certain video games or movies). But writing novels is a big part of who he is (he's been writing since he was six), and he wants a girl who's similar to him. I don't think that that is unreasonable.


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## meowmix

fangaroo said:


> I know that he has to wait, but when I tell him that he just gets frustrated. He complains that all his friends didn't have to wait to get kissed or have a girlfriend and he doesn't get why he should have to wait. I've told him to do things with girls as friends, but he says he's tired of doing things with girls as friends and that he wants something romantic with a girl. I told him he should join clubs and things, but he complains that there aren't any clubs in our area. I've told him he may find a girl in college, but he rolls his eyes and says he probably not going to find any girl h wants there, either. He also said he's tired of hearing this stupid b.s. and that he just wants a girlfriend right now. He's extremely upset because he thinks it's ridiculous that all his friends get to have a girlfriend and he can't even find a girl he likes.


LOL. This is hilarious. I mean, I'm laughing because if I was his parent I would probably be laughing instead of lamenting. This sounds like a situation where you can't win. Like when my husband asks me where we should go out to dinner and I say "I dunno, anything." and then I hate on all his choices. So finally he's like "omg, you figure out where to eat and let me know." You are in a no win situation. You suggest things and he tells you why they won't work before he even tries them. He's even totally down on meeting someone at college and he's not even in college yet. You're not going to win this. Just chalk it up to one of those times in parenting that we just grin and bear it. When he complains.. just nod understandingly and smile. And quit trying to solve the problem because he is making it clear there is no solution.


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## fangaroo

What am I supposed to do, then? It's not like he hasn't tried anything--he's found one club for teenagers in the area and he went to a few of the meetings, but he said he didn't have any fun. He doesn't believe that he's going to meet any girl in college because he's heard the stereotype of party girls in college who go out and drink and get drunk and high and he's not interested in a girl like that. I've tried just nodding and he just gets even more upset. He's upset about this every day and cries and complains. What can I do so that he can find a girlfriend?


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## MeepyCat

fangaroo said:


> I don't know why you have to be rude about it. It's a very normal thing to want a girlfriend, especially at his age when he sees other people in relationships. And that sexual experimentation is part of growing up. It's what's going to make him be mature when he wants to have a sexual experience later on in life. I don't know why it is so bad or immature for him to want a girlfriend badly. I know of people who are older than him who want relationships just as badly as he does. I'm sure it has to be extremely frustrating to be told for 4 years of your life that you can't have this thing that other people have yet and you have to wait. He's been waiting for all of high school and still has no girlfriend. I don't think it's a question of other guys getting over the fact that they're dating these same girls that they've known since kindergarten as much as THEY ARE ATTRACTED TO THESE GIRLS and he is NOT. Same goes for them getting over the fact that they don't go to school with girls who write novels. I'm sure they've been able to find girls who like things that are big parts of their lives (like certain video games or movies). But writing novels is a big part of who he is (he's been writing since he was six), and he wants a girl who's similar to him. I don't think that that is unreasonable.


For the past eight months, I have felt increasingly that _someone_ should be rude to your son about this.

It is, of course, normal to want a romantic partner. It is also necessary to understand that just because it's normal to want a thing doesn't make you entitled to have it. It's necessary to understand that romantic partners are people you attract, who make choices about whether they want to be involved with you.

If he's not attracted to the girls at school, he should not date them. If their key failing is that they don't write novels, well, too bad.

The romances of novelists are astoundingly well-documented, so we know a lot about this topic. A brief tour of Ernest Hemingway and Virginia Woolf tends to make young women with literary ambitions feel that romances of their own are low priority and should be approached with suspicion (and jettisoned promptly if they aren't fun). It takes a lot of attractiveness, or a potentially _very_ interesting set of life experiences to get those young women to give you a romantic shot. Your son doesn't appear to be Johnny Castle, so if he wants to date women who have writing in common with him, he needs to be prepared to drink a lot of coffee, listen well, and respect his partner's work. It would also help if he has a good sense of humor, tidies up after himself, and cooks decently well. And even then, there are no guarantees.

Romance is not an entitlement. Ever.


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## moominmamma

fangaroo said:


> What am I supposed to do, then?


How about nothing?

Miranda


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## MeepyCat

fangaroo said:


> What am I supposed to do, then? It's not like he hasn't tried anything--he's found one club for teenagers in the area and he went to a few of the meetings, but he said he didn't have any fun. He doesn't believe that he's going to meet any girl in college because he's heard the stereotype of party girls in college who go out and drink and get drunk and high and he's not interested in a girl like that. I've tried just nodding and he just gets even more upset. He's upset about this every day and cries and complains. What can I do so that he can find a girlfriend?


Lots of college women aren't party girls.

Lots of party girls confine their partying to weekends, and are interesting to get to know.

FWIW, when I was in college I didn't drink or do drugs, but I very much appreciated the opportunity to *act* drunk and silly at parties from time to time. I blended right into the stereotype and got away with all kinds of things that would have been scandalous in other situations.

But if he wants to pre-reject all the girls at college, he can guarantee himself another four years of frustration. This would be his choice.


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## meowmix

moominmamma said:


> How about nothing?
> 
> Miranda


Totally and completely that answer! Nothing! It would amuse me at first.. then completely start to annoy me if my almost grown son behaved that way. This is HIS problem. Crying and complaining are HIS problem. Your job isn't to set him up with someone. He's made it clear he won't like them anyway. He could, however, write some poetry lamenting the fact that he can't find a girlfriend. Maybe this would give him good fodder for a story. He seems to have a lot of invested emotion and energy in this problem so that he should put it to good use.


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## fangaroo

Why can't you give me GOOD ANSWER? Why does everything you have to say something that's rude and annoying and unhelpful or somtething that's just flat out ridiculous? Just because he writes novels does not mean that he has the same views at Earnest Hemingway or Virginia Woolf! The boy wants a girlfriend with whom he can identify! That's it! Nobody said that a romantic partner doesn't make choices about weather they are involved with you! HE JUST WANTS TO HAVE A GIRLFRIEND!!! He is not pre-rejecting every girl in college! He just doesn't like the kind of girls he hears about being in college. He does not like partying girls or girls who pretend to be drunk. Would it be so hard for you to just tell me THINGS THAT I CAN DO TO HELP HIM FIND GIRLS HE WILL LIKE? HE DOES NOT HATE EVERY GIRL ON THE PLANET, HE JUST DOESN'T LIKE THE GIRLS HE'S MET. And it's an awfully poor attitude for a parent to have to be amused by their child's problems or to just dump it on them and say it's their problem! And if you're not going to be constructive and just leave some stupid comment, to just not leave that comment at all? IS THAT SO HARD? Please, just ANSWER MY QUESTION. IS THERE ANYTHING I CAN DO TO HELP HIM? BECAUSE I'M NOT DOING NOTHING.


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## chickabiddy

You can teach him that girls are people, and girlfriends are people. He can't just go to the mall and"get" a girlfriend. He has to like people and be likeable himself.

He has decided he doesn't like "high school girls" and he doesn't think he'll like "college girls". Women in college are not a single unit. Some party, some don't. Some appreciate prolific writing, some don't. He needs not to prejudge. And he may need to adjust his expectations. He may not ever meet a girl who takes flying lessons and has written 20 novels. But if he keeps his mind open, he just might find someone he likes who likes him back. There may not be a instant physical attraction. Sometimes that develops over time. If he's looking to fall in love at first sight, he's probably not being realistic.


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## MeepyCat

You refuse to believe that nothing is the right move here, but it really is. You're overinvolved and overinvested in this problem in a way that's bad for your son. He has to deal with this one himself, so you need to back off.


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## moominmamma

fangaroo said:


> IS THAT SO HARD? Please, just ANSWER MY QUESTION. IS THERE ANYTHING I CAN DO TO HELP HIM? BECAUSE I'M NOT DOING NOTHING.


When it comes to petulance, apples clearly don't fall far from trees.

You've got all sorts of advice. You don't like any of it. (And, like your ds, you've convinced yourself, before trying it, that none of it suits you.) Do you honestly think that we're all just sitting out here in internet-land knowing the ultimate way to "get a cute girlfriend" but we're intentionally not sharing it with you?

:laugh

I'm done feeding this troll.

Miranda


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## Letitia

With kids, sometimes "nothing" is the best thing to do.


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## Sharlla

Maybe send him to job corps? That's where my ex husband and I met. Seems like even the most unattractive social deviants were able to find love there.


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## hillymum

WOW, just read the whole of this thread. I am so not surprised your son can't find/get/meet a girlfriend after reading how you relate to those who are responding with some pretty good advice! Try teaching him that girls/women are people, who deserve respect. You talk about him finding a gorlfriend as though he is looking for a pet. You, and he need to get over yourselves and start being more polite and respectful. 

He's 17. SEVENTEEN!!!! It's normal to not have been in a relationship at that age!!! Tell him to get over himself!!! He needs to get a life, do some voluntary work, get a part time job, start going to the gym..... He can't "get" a girlfriend. He needs to meet a girl who shares the same interests and who is attracted to him. You can't do a damn thing about it so get your nose out of his business.


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## fangaroo

I'm just tired of replies that don't help the situation at all, and the only reason I was getting mad was because some of these replies were rude and ridiculous. He already has a life. He writes novels and takes flying lessons, and if that's not having a life I don't know what is. He already exercises when he has the time. He complains about this every day and I don't really know what to tell him so that he can find somebody he likes. While I'm sure your advice would be sound under different circumstances, none of these things will help him. The town is small and there aren't any clubs to join or anything. There is no way for him to meet a girl that he likes. So I'm asking you, how can he find some girl he likes and can identify with? He doesn't want to wait until college.


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## MeepyCat

I think it's a mistake to think that you can help your son right now by fixing the thing he's complaining about. 
This is not a thing you can fix. Attraction is a slippery thing, and your son will have to grapple with it for himself. 

Your involvement in this issue is counterproductive - girls who might be interested in dating your son are likely to find his overinvolved mom off-putting. (I sure would have at 17.)

I think that you need to stop sympathizing, take a step back, and stop entertaining his complaints. Tell him that you have heard it every day and it's not a thing anyone can fix for him.


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## WallaWallaMamma

I'm going to be rude, because clearly y'all are crazy and don't realize it. Get over the girlfriend and get mental help. No one should obsess about teenage relationships this much. A watched pot never boils.


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## Nazsmum

Change schools or send him away to a camp or send him to... maybe Rock & Roll Fantasy Camp or Space Camp. Maybe homeschool and go traveling. 

I don't think you are really looking in the right place.


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## fangaroo

Fine. Since I'm so over involved, just tell me what I can tell him so that he can find a girlfriend. He's sad and he is crying because everyone else has a girlfriend except for him. So how can he, under his circumstances, find a girl he will like? It's honestly of no consequence to me if you think he's insane. Just give me an answer of things he can do in his situation to find girls. I don't want to hear anything except something that will help. And no, that's not he's crazy and needs to see a therapist.


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## ismewilde

fangaroo said:


> There is no way for him to meet a girl that he likes. So I'm asking you, how can he find some girl he likes and can identify with? He doesn't want to wait until college.


Yeah, okay. You just said it right there. 
Sometimes you have to wait for what you want. That is life. If he hasn't clicked with someone he will just need to wait.

I have a friend who is primarily asexual. The deal is that she is also incredibly particular. Perhaps that is your son.

Sounds like he needs to just ride it out and have confidence that he is waiting for the right person.


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## katelove

fangaroo said:


> . So how can he, under his circumstances, find a girl he will like? .


You can't. And you already know that because, if you could, you would have met one. Logically, if you are not attracted to all the girls you have already met and there is no way for you to meet new people then you aren't going to meet anyone.

Novel writing and flying lessons are both pretty solitary pursuits.. Are there any other towns near enough that you could join a club or do an activity in a different town in order to widen your social circle. Otherwise, I think you'll have to wait until uni. There will be heaps of clubs and groups you can join there full of people with similar interests.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MeepyCat

What can he do?

He can wait.

He can cultivate his appreciation for the people he knows, even if he's not attracted to them.

He could find a job.


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## hillymum

You can tell him he has to pursue other less solitary activities or he is going to have to do what everyone else has to do, and that is wait until he meets the right person. Tell him it takes time, and meeting a lot of the wrong people, and he has to put himself out there, and get rejected, and get hurt, before he meets the right person, and even then, he might not be the right person for her. Tell him he has another 70 years to meet a "girlfriend" and he needs to cultivate friendships, and be open to friendship before a relationship. Most of all, tell him to get a grip on himself!!!


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## Claudia Chapman

I hear how frustrated you are.

Do your or your husband have social anxiety? Aspbergers perhaps?


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## Sharlla

Yes it is completely normal for teenage boys to havw stayed single into adulthood. My boyfriend's first girlfriend/kiss was when he was 21!


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## chickabiddy

Seriously, GIRLS ARE PEOPLE! If he wants to meet people, he needs to get out and meet people who share his interests. Some of those people will be female. If he overcomes being insecure and desperate, perhaps some of those female people may be attracted to him.


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## Linda on the move

fangaroo said:


> . He's sad and he is crying because everyone else has a girlfriend except for him.


no, "everyone" has not had a girlfriend. He sounds like a bratty child saying that everyone else has a pony. Life isn't fair, and most parents find plenty of opportunities to help their kids make peace with that long before they are 17.

If one of my kids pulled this nonsense, I'd be more concerned about the fact that my kid had NO CHARACTER than that he/she wasn't getting laid.

May be some of us could start a thread about what our 17 year olds did today/this week. You could list that yours laid around crying and wallowing in self pity. Mine worked on a project to collect/purchase books for elementary students who live in a poverty. They collected/bought 1,200 books that were distributed today -- it was AMAZING.

She doesn't have a boy friend, and she doesn't give a crap. She thinks this is a odd time of life to be in a "relationship" because she is making such big decisions about her future. She wouldn't want either to be influenced by a relationship, nor would she want to be seeing someone knowing that their relationship has expiration date.

If there isn't anything wrong with your son, then tell him to snap out of it and do something worthwhile with his time and energy. Tell him *if he thought more about other people and less about himself, he would be happier. *It's ironic, but it's true. He is miserable person because he thinks only about himself. You are keeping him stuck in this nonsense by acting like he should get what he wants when he wants it, even when what he wants is another person. You are making this worse, not better.

You only have a few short months left to do what you should have done YEARS ago -- help your son stop acting like a brat and start developing some character. If you fail to do this, he will be miserable for years and years. He is completely miserable right now, and NOTHING is going to change that until he changes on the inside. You want him to be this miserable for ever? Keep acting like he is a victim and that you should be able to fix it for him. You are the reason he is so miserable, because you failed to teach him that he is responsible for what is going on inside his own head.


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## Claudia Chapman

I'll admit I find the thread odd, but interesting.

I understand the desire to shake someone up so they listen but I'm not sure that telling the OP she is crazy is the best way for a helping community to respond.

This said, the OP has let us know that her child is socially awkward. I asked about Aspbergers and or other social anxiety in the family. Looking at other posts, she has a daughter who does nothing but read. I understand why people are reacting with bewilderment and frustration when the OP appears to disregard advice.

She mentions in another thread that her daughter is also not good in social situations and reads virtually nonstop to the exclusion of other activities and personal interaction.

Has it occurred to anybody else that the OP may not be "neuro-typical" and may in fact be "on the spectrum?" Is it possible that a lack of ability to understand "typical" emotion is the cause of her bewilderment about her sons behavior and her odd responses to well meant advice?

I mention this only because some of us are reacting with frustration, even calling "bs" on the whole dilemma. If we look at the possibility that this well meaning mom is simply unable to view the problem like we are, might it not help us to rein in some of the more negative responses?


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## katelove

I admit I hadn't thought of that. My suspicion is that the OP is actually the son, not the mother. Assuming that this is a genuine thread of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Claudia Chapman

It's just a hunch. She mentioned that she has two children who are not typical teens. I've known people with varying degrees of "social awkwardness." They genuinely need to have emotions and social situations dissected and explained to them. Sometimes it's exasperating, and their questions may even come off as rude or stubborn, unless you take the time to understand that they simply do not experience the world in the same way that "neurotypical" people do. 

A person on this spectrum might find our answers just as frustrating as we find their responses. To them it may be seem like a very simple straight forward question: how can I help my son solve this problem? If (and this is all speculation) he genuinely is "socially awkward" all the talk about emotion may feel like a discussion of variations in hue to a person who is color blind. It is probably extremely frustrating for someone like this to ask for a list of steps to take and not get one. 

But this is all speculation on my part.


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## Claudia Chapman

Accidental double post. Disregard this one.


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## Letitia

Claudia, that really made me stop and think.


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## Linda on the move

Claudia Chapman said:


> They genuinely need to have emotions and social situations dissected and explained to them. Sometimes it's exasperating, and their questions may even come off as rude or stubborn, unless you take the time to understand that they simply do not experience the world in the same way that "neurotypical" people do.


It has been explained to her -- over and over and over.


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## fangaroo

None of these issues apply to us. We understand feelings. I'm just tired of being told answers that don't help him at all. He does not want to wait until he reaches college and there aren't any clubs to join nearby! You say that trying to get girls at the mall is soooo creepy. I don't care if you think what I'm asking is crazy or you don't believe it. I don't really care if you think I'm feeding his obsession and should do nothing. Don't tell me that he has some issues to deal with first that you invented. So please don't reply with any more of that nonsense. For God's sake, CAN YOU GIVE ME AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION I ASKED? HE DOES NOT WANT TO WAIT UNTIL THE RIGHT TIME. HE WANTS A GIRLFRIEND SOON. WHAT CAN HE DO TO MEET A GIRL HE LIKES?


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## MeepyCat

> can you give me an answer to the question i asked? He does not want to wait until the right time. He wants a girlfriend soon. What can he do to meet a girl he likes?


go to school with an open mind.

Develop some empathy.

Stop whining.


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## oldsmom

fangaroo said:


> HE WANTS A GIRLFRIEND SOON. WHAT CAN HE DO TO MEET A GIRL HE LIKES?


1. Recognize the choices are limited and try to get to know the girls in his classes better.
2. Go beyond the places he goes now to meet new people.
3. Join an online dating website.

That's it. Those are only ways I know.

It's really, genuinely, weird that you have been asking this question. I recommend asking yourself why this is so important to you. What do you fear will happen if you don't do anything? What is driving you to be so adamant about finding a solution? Your question appears irrational to those of us on the outside. Usually this is an indicator of some underlying fear that isn't being really analyzed.

The only other thing I can think of is that the boy may have an unrealistic expectation of what he wants in a girl. How is he exposed to girls his age? Is he surfing adult websites? Those will dramatically affect his expectations in a very negative way. They will also give him unrealistic expectations of how young women behave.


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## chickabiddy

fangaroo said:


> You say that trying to get girls at the mall is soooo creepy.


Thinking of girls as something to "get" is pretty creepy. Besides, how does he know he likes the personalities of the girls at the mall? How can he tell that they are novel writers or readers?



> WHAT CAN HE DO TO MEET A GIRL HE LIKES?


Get out into the world and meet people who share his interests. Some of those people will be female.


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## Linda on the move

fangaroo said:


> HE WANTS A GIRLFRIEND SOON. WHAT CAN HE DO TO MEET A GIRL HE LIKES?


It's usually pretty easy for 16 or 17 year old boys to find girls they like, at least for awhile. Straight boys that age are attracted to lots of girls. It's really the opposite of our biology to be picky so close to our sexual peak (and boys peak pretty young).

I'm back to thinking that you are son, not the mother, and that you are gay, but that you don't want to be gay. You want to be straight and be like your friends and have a regular highschool experience like you see your straight friends having, which in your mind includes having a girl friend.

I'm sorry that isn't your reality. Lot's of men who are gay have AWESOME lives and do very cool things and have amazing people in their lives. But for most of them, their lives didn't start to blossom until after highschool. Their lives becoming amazing for them required them accepting themselves for who they are, and just going from there.


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## fangaroo

He says he is not gay. He just does not like any girl at school. Most of the other boys will settle for anything because they're not attractive and as such, are lucky to have any girl like them. But a lot of girls have hit on him and he thinks he deserves to have an attractive girl who he likes. For the ten millionth time, HE DOES NOT LIKE ANY GIRL AT SCHOOL! IS THERE ANYWHERE ELSE HE CAN GO?! He does not want to wait until college!!


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## MeepyCat

Fangaroo, you keep asking the same question, and you are going to keep getting the same answers.

But bluntly, no, your son does not deserve to have an attractive girl who he likes. No one deserves to have another person. Not generally, not specifically, not at all. Your son has made a choice about romantic relationships - he does not want to have a romantic relationship with any of the girls in his high school - and now he is upset with the consequence - that means he does not have any romantic relationship right now. He can reconsider the first choice, but it might not make a change in the outcome - all those girls might still decide that they prefer not to date him specifically. In fact, if he feels as you say he does, that seems very likely.

When young women ask for advice, we tell them not to date men (of any age) who feel that they "deserve" a girlfriend. Those guys are not good guys to date. People who use that kind of language and have that kind of attitude about relationships tend to treat their partners very badly. Your son might have more success romantically if he accepted that he has no entitlement to a girlfriend. You could help by making it clear to him that he needs to take the time and effort to see young women around him as people, and to consider the needs of people around him as well as his own.


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## chickabiddy

fangaroo said:


> he thinks he deserves to have an attractive girl who he likes.!


I would never, ever date any man with that attitude. Girls are PEOPLE, not prizes.

And now I am hoping Linda is correct and this is the young man writing, because I would find it very sad if a woman wrote that way about other young women.


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## fangaroo

He does see them as people. I'm not saying he feels he deserves to have a girlfriend. Girls at school are attracted to him and flirt with him. HE is the one who isn't interested! He feels like he should be able to find a girl who he does like. I want to know what he can do to find a girl he likes! I'm tired of these cockamamie replies that don't answer the question. Stop posting that crap. JUST TELL ME THINGS HE CAN DO SO HE CAN FIND A GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## chickabiddy

fangaroo said:


> I'm not saying he feels he deserves to have a girlfriend.


That's exactly what you wrote.

I don't know where you live so I can't tell you exactly where to go. If he wants to meet people he should get involved in service work or other activities. When he turns 18 he can consider mail-order brides where he can choose from a catalog.


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## katelove

fangaroo said:


> Most of the other boys will settle for anything because they're not attractive and as such, are lucky to have any girl like them.


This is a truly horrible attitude to take. A person's physical appearance, as well as being hugely subjective, has nothing at all to do with their worth as a person and desirability as a parter. Maybe the other boys at school have partners because they appreciate and value them as fellow human beings.

I also really hope that this is not an adult woman/mother writing these things.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fangaroo

Weather you like it or not, other boys at school have not had nearly as many girls interested in them. Almost no girls demonstrate any interest in them. However, many girls have demonstrated interest in and flirted with my son. Because the other guys at his school are not as attractive to girls, they have settled for anything that has demonstrated any interest at all in them. But my son feels like he can find more attractive girls since many girls have shown interest in him. Also, I wish you wouldn't pick apart EVERY SINGLE THING I WRITE and instead JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION ASKED!


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## Nazsmum

@fangaroo Merry Christmas! Enjoy. Forget about girls for awhile


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## moominmamma

fangaroo said:


> Because the other guys at his school are not as attractive to girls, they have settled for anything that has demonstrated any interest at all in them.


Any_thing_??!!

Miranda


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## kathymuggle

fangaroo said:


> He does see them as people. I'm not saying he feels he deserves to have a girlfriend. Girls at school are attracted to him and flirt with him. HE is the one who isn't interested! He feels like he should be able to find a girl who he does like. I want to know what he can do to find a girl he likes! I'm tired of these cockamamie replies that don't answer the question. Stop posting that crap. JUST TELL ME THINGS HE CAN DO SO HE CAN FIND A GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!


OMG. This is not healthy One of the things we need to learn to do as parents of teens is figure out what is our business and what is their's. Romantic relationships are their territory. I get he wants a girlfriend - but are you also feeding into his misery by blowing this out of proportion? Tell him it is ok to not have a girlfriend - help him see it as not the end of the world. That would be a great gift to him.

I did not have a boyfriend until I was 18. Honestly, I am fairly happy I did not have a boyfriend early on - there are lots of adult feeling and complications that can come with teen romances.

Your son does not like any of the girls at his school. That is the biggest pool of available girls, and maybe he should not be so picky ( is he giving people a chance?) but if he refuses to consider any girls at his school, then here is a list:

-friends of siblings
-extra curricular of any sort that also has teens
-youth centres or anywhere you can hang out regularly
-church

If girls are hitting on him, he obviously isn't doing anything outwardly wrong (like poor hygiene). The pool is just small. That is it. Short of making efforts to hang out regularly where teens _not_ in his school hang out, there is not much to be done about it.


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## Linda on the move

I don't buy it. No heterosexual 17 year old boy who has girls hitting on him is wasting away and crying all the time because he doesn't have a girlfriend. Unless he is gay. Or he is making up the part about girls flirting with him. Or he has something really serious going on like a personality disorder. 


This story doesn't add up.


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## fangaroo

I don't know what to tell you. He's not lying about girls flirting with him, I've seen girls talking to him and flirt with him (like when I'm waiting to pick him up from school and he's talking to a girl when he walks out) or the reaction that girls who know him from school have when they happen to see him in a public place (like a mall). He is simply uninterested in them. I've told you twice already that he is not gay. And he dos not have a personality disorder. I am not stressing the issue at all, he is. He is the one who comes home every day and complains that he's frustrated that he cannot find a girl that he wants to be with. I'm just stressing it so much on here because he's very upset and sad that everyone else has been in a relationship and kissed a girl except for him and he's tired of it. I'm also getting frustrated that there are no better answers. He obviously doesn't want to wait any longer; he is NOT interested in any girl at school, and there aren't really any activities for him to join. He doesn't want to wait until he gets to college. I'm trying to find ways for him to just meet girls now so that he can have a girlfriend. If you don't believe what I'm saying fine, I can't force you. But I'm telling the truth. I don't really care if you think it's unhealthy.


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## chickabiddy

Linda on the move said:


> I don't buy it. No heterosexual 17 year old boy who has girls hitting on him is wasting away and crying all the time because he doesn't have a girlfriend. Unless he is gay. Or he is making up the part about girls flirting with him. Or he has something really serious going on like a personality disorder.
> 
> This story doesn't add up.


+
I can believe it. Real 17yo girls are flawed and can be awkward. If this young man believes he "deserves" a Nobel Prize winnning supermodel, he may truly not be interested in real girls. Of course, that doesn't rule out a personality disorder.


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## hillymum

You have discounted all the practical solutions, so maybe it is time you told your son that you have no solution for him? If he is discounting all the girls at his school he is $hit out of luck, and he needs to deal with it?


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## chickabiddy

Not to mention that the young man may be pleasing physically, but desperation, arrogance, entitlement, and misogyny are not attractive traits. Even if he does meet a girl he deems worthy, she may very well realize that she could do much better.


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## Linda on the move

chickabiddy said:


> +
> I can believe it. Real 17yo girls are flawed and can be awkward. If this young man believes he "deserves" a Nobel Prize winnning supermodel, he may truly not be interested in real girls. Of course, that doesn't rule out a personality disorder.


There's a difference between thinking you are above your current options, and being so depressed that one is crying every day and loosing weight. It doesn't add up.

And truth be told, when loneness or desire get stronger, standards tend to go down, no matter the age of the person involved -- unless there is some other pressing psychology reason that one is avoiding a relationship.

So, I don't buy it.


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## MeepyCat

When you reject all the options, you're left with nothing, and that's where your son is now, and where you're standing with him.

I'm sorry it's frustrating. The only way out is to make different choices. Like "settling", which I get that he doesn't want to do, but not settling has so far meant no girlfriend. If you keep doing the same things, you will get the same results.

I continue to wonder if this kid is getting something out of his constant complaints about this problem. Is this a manipulative dynamic that you should break out of?


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## fangaroo

There is no psychological or manipulative problem. I have told you so many times that he is not at all interested in girls at his school. Yes, he wants a girlfriend extremely bad, but he does not want to date a girl from school. I've suggested he ask some girls that I've seen flirting with him to go to the movies but he just says he's not even interested in doing that. He does not want to pursue them because he has zero interest in them. How is he supposed to make different choices about girls that he feels no freaking attraction to? He's been to youth church, but didn't meet anyone and wasn't interested in going again. He's angry and depressed because rather than listen to what he says, they tell him stupid b.s. that they think is a solution but isn't. He's very sad today and has been crying. THERE IS NO PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEM. HE JUST WANTS A GIRLFRIEND THAT HE LIKES. HOW CAN HE FIND ONE?


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## hillymum

I really think the one thing missing from all these girls is a penis. Seriously, in the whole of your area there is not one girl who he is attracted to?

His behavior is not normal, and you need to understand that he might need more help than you can give to him. You obviously know something is wrong because you are asking for help here.


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## hillymum

I really think the one thing missing from all these girls is a penis. Seriously, in the whole of your area there is not one girl who he is attracted to?

His behavior is not normal, and you need to understand that he might need more help than you can give to him. You obviously know something is wrong because you are asking for help here.


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## MeepyCat

Well, he could try goung to youth church more than once. When adults decide they need to get out more and meet new people, they are generally advised to become a regular somewhere - get to know the people a little, have a predictable pattern that makes them approachable.

I've changed my mind about being attracted to people a ton. People who are a little odd-looking or a little hard to get to know often improve on acquaintance.

Or he could sit down and reconsider whether he really wants this thing that he is reported to cry over daily, but takes none of the available steps to actually have. 

Imagine this wasn't a girlfriend. Pretend it's something else. A car, maybe. If this kid was sobbing to you all the time about his great desire for a car, and how all the other kids have cars, I doubt you'd be so stuck about what to do. You might tell him to save his money and get a job. And if, nine months from now, he had blown every penny on concert tickets and not found a job, you'd tell him too bad. There were steps you could have taken, and you didn't. If you can't be bothered to work for what you want, you clearly don't want it all that much.


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## Sharlla

fangaroo said:


> HE JUST WANTS A GIRLFRIEND THAT HE LIKES. HOW CAN HE FIND ONE?


Pretty sure you've received all the suggestion that you can possibly get. You don't like the truth, all the suggestions you won't accept. Your son will never meet anyone with that attitude, I suggest you mind your own business about it because you stressing out about him crying because he's too picky isn't going to help anything. Your his parent, not a matchmaker. Stay out of it


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## fangaroo

Maybe his expectations are unrealistic, but I guess he doesn't feel that way because he's pretty extrodinary and yet is very real. He's physically attractive, very friendly and gets along with everyone, is friends with everyone at school. A lot of girls have crushes on him. All his teachers like him. He gets very good grades and just got into one of the top liberal arts colleges in the country. He's also written novels and takes flying lessons. He's not awkward at all and never went through any phases, he's always had the same identity. So I guess he wants a girl who's as good as he is and feels frustrated that he can't find that. Maybe he's a little full of himself, but that's why he's so picky.


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## MeepyCat

I think the thing we're seeing here is that your reportedly fabulous, handsome, well-liked, brilliant son is reportedly crying to you all the time about his lack of a girlfriend. And his incredible awesomeness appears (to us) to be heavily mitigated by his refusal to either be patient or take the time to get to know people better and see if his lack of attraction is possibly the result of him just not knowing them all that well. He would be welcome to be picky, if you were not lighting up the board every few months with your desperation to find him someone to date.

I don't know what's actually going on at your house, but perhaps you could stop with the periodic How Can My Son Get A Girlfriend threads.


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## chickabiddy

It's fine to be picky, and it's understandable to be frustrated at not finding the right person.

Crying daily (or near-daily) and refusing to eat over that frustration is not normal or healthy. Neither is a parent being so invested in her son's social life.

And when he does find someone he feels is worthy? Being "full of himself" is a huge turnoff (not to mention the other attitudes displayed upthread).


----------



## fangaroo

I will tell him to keep going to the youth church, maybe he'll find a girl that he likes there. There aren't really any clubs he can join where the members aren't kids form his school or youth centers he can go to. Any other suggestions? He really does not want to wait anymore.


----------



## Linda on the move

This is a quote from your first post in this thread:



fangaroo said:


> *he also has social anxiety disorder*, and he feels to anxious to walk up to a girl, talk to her and ask for her number. He tried joining a club at another school, but he *feels the same anxiety about talking to pretty girls.* He's very upset and doesn't want to go to school because he says he sees his friends and stuff in relationships and it makes him feel so awful he wants to cry. He's been crying a lot recently and doesn't really have any appetite.


here is a quote from your most recent post:



fangaroo said:


> he's pretty extrodinary and yet is very real. He's physically attractive, *very friendly and gets along with everyone*, is friends with everyone at school. A lot of girls have crushes on him. All his teachers like him. He gets very good grades and just got into one of the top liberal arts colleges in the country. He's also written novels and takes flying lessons. *He's not awkward at all and never went through any phases*, he's always had the same identity. So I guess he wants a girl who's as good as he is and feels frustrated that he can't find that. Maybe he's a little full of himself, but that's why he's so picky.


How did he go from having a social anxiety disorder to being very friendly and getting along with everyone at school? How did he go from having anxiety about talking to the pretty girls at school to already being friends with everyone at school?

In the course of this thread your son has transformed from a boy who can't speak to girls he finds attractive to a boy who simply can't find any girls who are wonderful enough for him to bother with.


----------



## contactmaya

It must be hard for him to have to keep waiting.


----------



## fangaroo

He hasn't transformed at all. He's very friendly and fun to be around once he's opened up to you, but it takes a little time for him to become comfortable around you and to be himself. He can talk to the girls he comfortable around (the ones at school) just fine if they initiate the conversation. The same goes for a physically attractive girl. If they initiate the conversation and he's comfortable around them, he's okay. But he has a hard time imitating conversation with someone and is shy about approaching girls he doesn't know. So it's hard for him to meet girls outside school because they probably expect him to approach them and he's scared about doing that.


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## MeepyCat

He's fun to be around? Really? Because it seems like the constant despair on this issue is pretty unpleasant for *you* to be around.

The situation you describe now - that your son finds it hard to approach girls he doesn't know, and therefore doesn't hit on strangers - sounds completely normal. It's a good argument for doing the things you do for intrinsic reasons (e.g., going to youth church in order to develop a faith community of people your own age) instead of extrinsic reasons (like going to youth church to meet girls).


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## PirateQueen

Did your son do Nanowrimo? Did he go to the meet-ups or participate in the online forums? Does he use social media at all? Posted his stuff on AO3? Blogged? Because those have been a boon for kids struggling to meet someone whose personality they click with in a local area. Are his novels any good? Has he checked local book stores and coffee shops to see if they have writing groups? Is there a Facebook group for kids who have been admitted to his fabulous top liberal arts college that he could join? Has he tried putting on a dark sweater and a vintage flying jacket and taking his laptop to a coffee shop to sigh moodily at his latest work in progress? Slam poetry? Performing dramatic readings of the opening chapter of Candide at local open mic nights? Improv comedy classes? Community service? Ballroom dance? 

Note, these are all things that HE could consider doing, that might help him meet another good-looking novelist with flying experience. None of them guarantee that he will meet someone with whom he clicks, romantically. Because life doesn't write that kind of guarantee. also, these are not things anyone's mom can do for them. 

It's a school holiday - he's got nothing but time. If he's a man on a mission, and a writer to boot, his reports on his efforts to find (and then forge a relationship with) this elusive girl could make an excellent and very marketable YA or romance novel. Those are the profitable sectors of the publishing business. A few flying lesson scenes add visual drama and increase chances of a movie deal.


----------



## Polliwog

Sounds like therapy would do wonders.


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## fangaroo

He's been going to therapy and it's done nothing. There's no Facebook group for the college he's going to. I don't know what I am supposed to do. He barely even talks now, he says he doesn't feel like it. Stop telling me to stay out of it. What can I do? None of the suggestions has worked


----------



## fangaroo

He's been going to therapy and it's done nothing. There's no Facebook group for the college he's going to. I don't know what I am supposed to do. He barely even talks now, he says he doesn't feel like it. Stop telling me to stay out of it. What can I do? None of the suggestions has worked


----------



## fangaroo

He's been going to therapy and it's done nothing. There's no Facebook group for the college he's going to. I don't know what I am supposed to do. He barely even talks now, he says he doesn't feel like it. Stop telling me to stay out of it. What can I do? None of the suggestions has worked


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## chickabiddy

It "didn't work" because meeting people is not like solving a calculus problem. It takes time, and effort, and is often one step forward and two steps back. If he wants to meet girls, he needs to get busy and expand his social circle with people who share his interests. Maybe he will meet a girl, maybe he will meet people who have friends or sisters, or maybe he'll get so busy he doesn't care any more.

More importantly, not eating, crying daily, and refusing to talk/particpate in life are signs of serious depression.

If you are truly a mother posting here, you are negligent (and I don't say that lightly) in writing this off as "wanting a girlfriend". Please let his therapist know how depressed he truly is.

If you are the teenage boy posting, please print out this thread and show it to your therapist. S/he won't care that you played a part on the Internet. But your therapist needs to know that this is more than just a little social anxiety.

Being healthy and having a healthy outlook are important in relationships as well as life in general.


----------



## moominmamma

fangaroo said:


> He's been going to therapy and it's done nothing.


Meaning a few counselling sessions did not produce a girlfriend?


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## contactmaya

I dont want to hurt anyone's feelings here, but the topic of this thread is really silly.


----------



## MeepyCat

fangaroo said:


> He's been going to therapy and it's done nothing. *There's no Facebook group for the college he's going to.* I don't know what I am supposed to do. He barely even talks now, he says he doesn't feel like it. Stop telling me to stay out of it. What can I do? None of the suggestions has worked


There's _no_ facebook group for his college. Really. This strikes me as something between staggeringly unlikely and completely impossible. Is he going to college in a country with internet access? One where he speaks the local language?

Your son has been doing pendulum swings between totally fine, awesome kid who just can't hit on strange girls and not eating/not talking. You continue to ask what you can do while ignoring all the actual suggestions. When we question your parenting decisions, you insist that he's fine, really! Just needs a girlfriend! But when we say okay then, he's fine, you describe him as badly in need of serious psychiatric assistance.

I no longer believe any of this. I don't know whether it's you who's lying, or your son. I no longer care.

FWIW, though - 
You say this young man is not gay, on the basis that you asked him, and he says not. What children say about their sexual identities when their parents ask them is not necessarily the whole truth. Children fear rejection and feel their material dependence pretty keenly. If you have not modeled unconditional acceptance, and sometimes even if you have, LGBTQ kids often don't feel safe coming out to their families.

You say this young man is not manipulating you, but I notice that you are paying for flying lessons. (And doing a lot of driving to the mall. And letting him pick up and quit activities on a really questionable basis.) A child of mine who was interested in aviation would get some pointers from the librarian and maybe some suggestions about Air Force ROTC. Are your other children's interests indulged on the same budget as this one?


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## fangaroo

If you don't believe me then freaking stop responding. I'm NOT freaking lying. He is fine and just needs a girlfriend and it's you who thinks it's soooooo unreasonable for him to react in this way. I really don't care how you would react. He's feeling extremely frustrated because he does not like any girl at the school and really is not interested in them. Your suggestions don't work for him because there's nothing he can do in this area to find a girl! There's nothing he can do to expand his social circle with people like him because there are no clubs! And it's not easy to find a girl that likes the same stuff as him. I don't give a hoot if you don't believe there's no Facebook group for his college, THERE ISN'T ONE. He's depressed because he's never even been kissed and he's seventeen years old, meanwhile he has to watch ALL his other friends have girlfriends. He's shy and is unable to approach girls. That is why he's sad and depressed. If you don't believe he's not gay FINE. There's nothing I can do about it. I've told you freaking 5 times that he's NOT GAY and I wish you'd stop suggesting that he is. Furthermore, the counseling hasn't helped. He is still shy and he hasn't found a single doggone girl who's like him. Also, I'm paying for flying lessons because I can afford them. He's been interested in flying since he was 3 years old and when he was around 13 he asked if he could have flying lessons. I agreed because I could afford them, not because I was manipulated! And I, unlike a lot of parents, am not lazy and am still willing to drive my kids! IF YOU WON'T TAKE WHAT I'M ASKING SERIOUSLY, WHY ARE YOU EVEN RESPONDING? THIS IS TOTALLY SERIOUS AND I'M SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE WHO THINK I'M LYING ABOUT IT. WHY WOULD I?


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## Nazsmum

I feel for your son. I did not have a boyfriend till I was in college. I wanted one in the worst way. BUT I had to find one. Me.

Here is what I think. YOU the MOM go out with him. Show him how to act with a girl. Show him how to talk on a date. Ordering the meal opening the door and all that stuff. 

I hope that he find a great gal some day


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## moominmamma

fangaroo said:


> And I, unlike a lot of parents, am not lazy and am still willing to drive my kids!


What you call being "not lazy" could be viewed as coddling, enabling a sense of entitlement and being an obstacle to the development of confidence, a sense of responsibility and autonomy over one's life and one's decisions. I am far from a lazy parent, but by the time my kid is 17 my job is to be a safety net, not to solve my near-adult child's problems for him.

Miranda


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## heyxxmcfly

I'm sorry to say but after reading how this has gone, if I was a girl that knew your or your son, I would run for the freaking hills. Neither of you seem to be mentally healthy. You aren't finding your answer or a parent who is willing to offer up their girl as "an acceptable girlfriend"; so why carry on here?


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## mariamadly

fangaroo said:


> If you don't believe me then freaking stop responding. I'm NOT freaking lying. He is fine and just needs a girlfriend and it's you who thinks it's soooooo unreasonable for him to react in this way. I really don't care how you would react. He's feeling extremely frustrated because he does not like any girl at the school and really is not interested in them. *Your suggestions don't work for him because there's nothing he can do in this area to find a girl!* There's nothing he can do to expand his social circle with people like him because there are no clubs! And it's not easy to find a girl that likes the same stuff as him. I don't give a hoot if you don't believe there's no Facebook group for his college, THERE ISN'T ONE. He's depressed because he's never even been kissed and he's seventeen years old, meanwhile he has to watch ALL his other friends have girlfriends. He's shy and is unable to approach girls. That is why he's sad and depressed. If you don't believe he's not gay FINE. There's nothing I can do about it. I've told you freaking 5 times that he's NOT GAY and I wish you'd stop suggesting that he is. Furthermore, the counseling hasn't helped. He is still shy and he hasn't found a single doggone girl who's like him. Also, I'm paying for flying lessons because I can afford them. He's been interested in flying since he was 3 years old and when he was around 13 he asked if he could have flying lessons. I agreed because I could afford them, not because I was manipulated! And I, unlike a lot of parents, am not lazy and am still willing to drive my kids! IF YOU WON'T TAKE WHAT I'M ASKING SERIOUSLY, WHY ARE YOU EVEN RESPONDING? THIS IS TOTALLY SERIOUS AND I'M SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE WHO THINK I'M LYING ABOUT IT. WHY WOULD I?


Then he may just have to wait until he's out of the area.

If counseling isn't working, try changing counselors. Or goals, maybe to one of learning how to handle not having a romantic partner while he's still living at home.

I hope the college he'll be attending is a good social fit as well as being the right one for him academically, and that he has a happy time there.


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## Linda on the move

MeepyCat said:


> There's _no_ facebook group for his college. Really. This strikes me as something between staggeringly unlikely and completely impossible. Is he going to college in a country with internet access? One where he speaks the local language?


I wondered about this as well. Perhaps he should reconsider and select a college with that takes social connections more seriously. Right now, you describe part of the problem as being his "small private school." Perhaps a big college, a regular state uni, would give him a better shot of meeting lots of different people.

Also, I'm not lazy either. I'm really hard working and I've put a lot into parenting. But my 17 year old is now in "fend for yourself with a safety net" mode. In 7 or 8 months, she may be living on the other side of the country. If she weren't doing pretty much everything for herself (with her father and I to discuss things with and provide backup) there's no way she'd be ready for that. It isn't just about getting INTO college, it's about being able to thrive once you are there. It isn't because I'm lazy -- far from it. It's because I know that she needs the skills and confidence to run her own life. This is what she needs at this stage of parenting.

Your son needs to learn some independence and life skills. Now. You need to wake up and realize that you are down to the wire on parenting. Teach him to take care of himself and also to be less self absorbed.


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## PirateQueen

I absolutely 100% guarantee you there is a Facebook group for your son's college. 

Absolutely. 

100%. 

Facebook was invented to help students at colleges in the US connect with each other. It has done a great job of that. If this is indeed one of the top liberal arts colleges in the country, and not an entirely religious institution dedicated to protecting its students from the secular world, there will be a group on Facebook. Probably several groups, actually. 

Fangaroo, if you don't like the answers you're getting here, why not try a different parenting board? Over the past two years, posters here have repeatedly expressed the same ideas and offered the same suggestions. Maybe try a local parenting group or a bigger one since you don't like what you're hearing. Or you could seek parenting guidance from a pastor at your church ( you mentioned your son. Participating in church youth group) or a counselor in your area.


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## katelove

Can you tell us which college he'll be going to? You haven't provided any other identifying information so I don't think that would be a privacy problem. Then maybe we can find some likely looking groups.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## StarJune

heyxxmcfly said:


> I'm sorry to say but after reading how this has gone, if I was a girl that knew your or your son, I would run for the freaking hills. Neither of you seem to be mentally healthy. You aren't finding your answer or a parent who is willing to offer up their girl as "an acceptable girlfriend"; so why carry on here?


Amen! I think this is a troll. Cannot be for real.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Letitia

Troll, or the kid himself. The lack of logic and understanding of human relationships in the replies of the poster strike me as much like a young child, not a normal adult or even a normal 17 year old. Not even my normal 3rd grader would be so unable to understand the common threads in the responses. 

Fangaroo, if you're not messing with us to get a bunch of riled-up responses, the PP who suggested printing this off and taking it to his/your therapist had a great idea.


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## oldsmom

fangaroo said:


> He barely even talks now, he says he doesn't feel like it...
> And it's not easy to find a girl that likes the same stuff as him.
> And I, unlike a lot of parents, am not lazy and am still willing to drive my kids!


Hmmm... who wants the girlfriend? The son or the mom?

I am starting to wonder if the boy is just trying to get his mom off his back. Some parents get it in their heads that their kids have to do certain things in order to be "successful". I am starting to wonder if that is what is going on here.

Fangaroo, your son is only 17. It is perfectly normal and healthy for a kid his age to not date yet. It is also perfectly normal for the boy to WANT to have a girlfriend, and not have one.

What is NOT normal is your behavior about the situation. I suspect you are mentally and emotionally smothering your son.

It is not your job to "drive" him at 17. And it is certainly not your job to be finding his girlfriend. At 17 kids should be learning how to do things themselves. Healthy parenting at that age is letting go. Teens learn how to do things themselves, failing occasionally, and learning how to get back up and try again.

Imagine if you DO find a girlfriend. Unless you are from a country like China or India, there is no cultural reason a girl is going to let you introduce her to your son. Teenage girls would either laugh at you, be creeped out by you, or get weirded out that a boy's mother is that involved in his life. And in the off chance you find a girl willing to date your son, there's probably a significant problem with her, because no normal girl would be interested in a smothering mother getting this involved. There is no way to successfully do what you are trying to do.


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## fangaroo

I'm tired of having to tell you that this is real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get over it! It's not a freaking troll!!!!!!!!!! I'm not pressuring him to be in a relationship at all! He is the one who is upset and is crying. I want to know what he can do to find a girl who shares his interests! Will someone stop posting these stupid replies and give me an answer that is what i'm looking for? I don't care if you think i don't understand relationships. I honestly do not give a crap if you think something's wrong with him, NOTHING IS WRONG WITH HIM. STOP SAYING THAT THERE IS. He does not like any girl that he knows and he wants a girlfriend! I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING. I'M ASKING WHAT HE CAN DO TO FIND A GIRL HE ACTUALLY LIKES! He does not want to wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MeepyCat

You could suggest he look into late applications at a larger college. One with a facebook group.

And yes, that will involve waiting. But Deep Springs, or wherever it is that he's going that has no student FB group will involve waiting longer. 

And that's it. That's all. Finding a girl that he likes is his work, and figuring out how to find such a girl is something he has to do. It's not just about finding a girlfriend, it's about making reasonable progress towards adulthood.

You could stop telling us that this is real anytime. This is your third thread in the last 10 months or so. You keep getting the same results.


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## salr

Well, since you're cool with driving him places, why don't you drive him someplace awesome where he can meet girls?


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## chickabiddy

How are we supposed to know what the social scene is like where you live? If he's so smart and popular, he should be able to find some activities, since apparently budget and transportation are not an issue.


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## Letitia

Fangaroo, I don't think anybody here has anything to "get over." You've gotten what, read in full, is a very fully-fleshed and thoughtful response. 

Unfortunately, it's not the magic bullet you wanted. 

I'm sure you are going to say, "I'm not asking for a magic bullet," but, actually, you are. You are asking for something outside the realm of what is earthly possible. We all see this, because we all have experiental knowledge of human relationships. We haven't all had exactly the same experience, but if you read the responses, it's obvious that this group of people, who don't know each other and are not allied against you, is repeating some common threads.

So the answer to your question is "No." No, there is no magic bullet. Nobody is going to give you the secret 1-800 number to get a novel-writing girlfriend. Nobody is hiding "the answer."

If something weren't "wrong" besides your son not having a girlfriend, you wouldn't be shouting and repeating yourself in your posts. You would not find us so incredibly frustrating. 

Here is a suggestion, and I don't mean this to be flip. A good child and family therapist who could work with you both, not just a therapist for your son, may be able to help. I don't see it as a parenting failure to ask for help.


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## PirateQueen

fangaroo said:


> I'm tired of having to tell you that this is real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get over it! It's not a freaking troll!!!!!!!!!! I'm not pressuring him to be in a relationship at all! He is the one who is upset and is crying. I want to know what he can do to find a girl who shares his interests! Will someone stop posting these stupid replies and give me an answer that is what i'm looking for? I don't care if you think i don't understand relationships. I honestly do not give a crap if you think something's wrong with him, NOTHING IS WRONG WITH HIM. STOP SAYING THAT THERE IS. He does not like any girl that he knows and he wants a girlfriend! I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING. I'M ASKING WHAT HE CAN DO TO FIND A GIRL HE ACTUALLY LIKES! He does not want to wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I made a whole list of suggestions on how to meet girls. It was extensive. It's at the top of this page.

Sorry it didn't work.

Or were you looking for something more like this:

"It's so funny you should mention this, ha ha, because, as luck would have it, I have a daughter who is completely distraught because she's never had a boyfriend. She's a novelist too! She likes snuggling and long walks in the rain. PM me your email and I'll send your son a pic!"

Because there are many, many excellent reasons why you haven't gotten that response. (And if you send me a PM asking if that offer was sincere, I will instantly re-post it on this thread. INSTANTLY. In its unedited entirety. DON'T DO THAT.)

But just so you know:
Teenage novelists are a dime a dozen.

If you can afford flying lessons, you can afford a bus ticket to your nearest large city so your son can take a class or something with actual people who aren't tainted by their association with his limited social circle. Or he could drive himself. He's old enough to have a driver's license.

You can also send him to camp in whatever school break you have coming up in Feb/March. If my son were spending this much energy on his concerns about his lack of a girlfriend, he would definitely be going to camp. Or on a mission trip. Or backpacking in the Andes.


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## Taincurt

fangaroo said:


> My 17 year old son has been depressed for awhile now because he's never had a girlfriend. He goes to a small private school, and he says he's known a lot of the girls since kindergarten and he's not attracted to them. He's tried going to the mall to look for girls, but he also has social anxiety disorder, and he feels to anxious to walk up to a girl, talk to her and ask for her number. He tried joining a club at another school, but he feels the same anxiety about talking to pretty girls. He's very upset and doesn't want to go to school because he says he sees his friends and stuff in relationships and it makes him feel so awful he wants to cry. He's been crying a lot recently and doesn't really have any appetite. I've taken him to several therapy appointments with a social worker, but he seems to be more frustrated by the appointments than helped. The social worker thinks that he has social anxiety. She also thinks that his best bet is to date a girl at the school, but he keeps telling me that he doesn't like those girls at all. He also says he feels jealous of all his friends who have girlfriends and he wants a girlfriend so bad. What can I do? He's so sad.


I'm sorry if someone else has already suggested this, but has he tried online dating? Websites like okcupid are somewhat more geared towards younger people, even though I think you still have to be at least 18, though if he's 17 I would just let him say he's 18 (he can tell people the truth in a private message conversation)
You could teach him how to be safe online. Once he meets someone online who he likes and lives near him, he could switch to hanging out in person with them. You could teach him how to bring a friend along or meet in public when meeting someone online for the first time.


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## PirateQueen

Taincurt said:


> I'm sorry if someone else has already suggested this, but has he tried online dating? Websites like okcupid are somewhat more geared towards younger people, even though I think you still have to be at least 18, though if he's 17 I would just let him say he's 18 (he can tell people the truth in a private message conversation)
> You could teach him how to be safe online. Once he meets someone online who he likes and lives near him, he could switch to hanging out in person with them. You could teach him how to bring a friend along or meet in public when meeting someone online for the first time.


Don't do this. It's a really, really bad idea.

Teenagers meet other teenagers online every day without lying about their ages on sites for adults.


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## Taincurt

PirateQueen said:


> Don't do this. It's a really, really bad idea.
> 
> Teenagers meet other teenagers online every day without lying about their ages on sites for adults


Such as what dating websites?

I guess I'm less concerned because I did it as a teenager. I felt like I was safe and honest.


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## chickabiddy

I agree that encouraging an unstable teen to lie in order to access an adult dating site is a really bad idea. There is nothing about it that is safe and honest.

Social media is full of ways for teens to meet other teens.


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## MeepyCat

Taincurt said:


> Such as what dating websites?
> 
> I guess I'm less concerned because I did it as a teenager. I felt like I was safe and honest.


The website doesn't have to be a dating website in order for a teen to meet people on it. And I agree with Pirate Queen - teens meet teens on the internet everyday without lying about their ages.

This kid is old enough to have a Facebook account and participate in communities specific to his interests and location. He is old enough to find message boards related to those interests and begin to make friends. These will not instantaneously gain him a girlfriend, but neither will anything else.

This kid is exhibiting a variety of behaviors that make me concerned for his mental health. Lying about himself on the internet to attract people is a bad idea generally, and a spectacularly bad idea for him.


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## contactmaya

I was reminded of this thread when researching Narcissism as a personality disorder. 
"Narcissists may become disillusioned with their treatment and give up seeing it as a waste of time because "the cure" doesn't happen fast enough."
I didnt copy the source-sorry.....


----------



## Linda on the move

contactmaya said:


> I was reminded of this thread when researching Narcissism as a personality disorder.
> "Narcissists may become disillusioned with their treatment and give up seeing it as a waste of time because "the cure" doesn't happen fast enough."
> I didnt copy the source-sorry.....


There are other signs of narcissism as well:


seeing others not as people, but as means to making one's self feel better (using them for narcissistic supply),
feeling superior to others (self aggrandizement).


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## PirateQueen

Taincurt said:


> Such as what dating websites?
> 
> I guess I'm less concerned because I did it as a teenager. I felt like I was safe and honest.


Hmmmm.

I've read your other posts on MDC.

I think your judgment may be a little off here.


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## contactmaya

Linda on the move said:


> There are other signs of narcissism as well:
> 
> 
> seeing others not as people, but as means to making one's self feel better (using them for narcissistic supply),
> feeling superior to others (self aggrandizement).


Yep. Spot on. Now the whole situation in this thread makes more sense to me....


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## contactmaya

PirateQueen said:


> Hmmmm.
> 
> I've read your other posts on MDC.
> 
> I think your judgment may be a little off here.


In defense of Taincourt, there's nothing in particular about this or her other posts that show propensity for off judgement. Of course, people can disagree on things. Personally, I think a 17yo is old enough to participate on dating sites (hell, those kids are playing minecraft with people all over the world....)
The internet doesnt have to be dangerous provided you take the right precautions.

Still, I would look into the narcisism issue....


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## chickabiddy

I think many teens are naturally a bit narcissistic, like toddlers. I don't think it's a good thing, but I don't think it's a harbinger of doom.

I do think that it is a very bad thing that the mother (if it is really the mother posting) seems to be encouraging and fostering the narcissism.


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## PirateQueen

contactmaya said:


> In defense of Taincourt, there's nothing in particular about this or her other posts that show propensity for off judgement. Of course, people can disagree on things. Personally, I think a 17yo is old enough to participate on dating sites (hell, those kids are playing minecraft with people all over the world....)
> The internet doesnt have to be dangerous provided you take the right precautions.
> 
> Still, I would look into the narcisism issue....


In the world I live in, the "right precautions" for safe Internet use include:
- no non-adults on adult websites
- children don't pose as adults on websites where people are looking for sexual relationships

I'm pretty inflexible on those points.


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## contactmaya

PirateQueen said:


> In the world I live in, the "right precautions" for safe Internet use include:
> - no non-adults on adult websites
> - children don't pose as adults on websites where people are looking for sexual relationships
> 
> I'm pretty inflexible on those points.


No disagreement there. I assumed the websites mentioned were age specific. No, I wouldnt want my kid on a site intended for adults.


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## heyxxmcfly

Meetme is a website that seems to cater to a younger crowd. If he is 17 and going into college, I don't see why saying his 18 would be a bad thing (in its self) because it's a location based thing he could set it to the location of his new school so that he could get a jump start on meeting people. He doesn't have to meet offline or give out any specific information that he doesn't want. And most people on there aren't after sex. They simply want to meet people.


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## contactmaya

chickabiddy said:


> I think many teens are naturally a bit narcissistic, like toddlers. I don't think it's a good thing, but I don't think it's a harbinger of doom.
> 
> I do think that it is a very bad thing that the mother (if it is really the mother posting) seems to be encouraging and fostering the narcissism.


I agree that teenagers like their toddler cohorts can be narcisistic. But I think its possible to distinguish narcissistic traits that any of us may have (for eg. being ambitious, self confident,sometimes putting yourself first ), and that teenagers tend to have to a more extreme level, to outright naricissistic personality disorder,(NPD) which btw can be diagnosed by adolesence.

Without wanting to throw labels around, I would venture to say that some of the things mentioned about the son in this thread sound like more extreme narcisistic traits. For eg, he cries because he doesnt have a girlfriend. 
He's not crying from a broken heart, he's not crying because he wants to break up and feels guilty about hurting someone, he's not crying because of unrequited love, all normal reasons to cry. This kid is crying because noone is good enough for him.

"Other cry because they are in pain, I cry because noone is good enough for me, and that gives me pain"- so says the narcissist.

Also, I wanted to defend the OP a little against the criticism she has received by merely coming here for advice.(If she's the mother as you say) She is trying to help her son who she sees is in pain. That is a normal thing for a mother to do. However, I think she has misidentified the true problem, and here it is-her son doesnt need a girlfriend, he needs help with his burgeoning narcissism.
I have found that the single thing that distinguishes most people with some narcisistic traits, from the person with outright NPD, is the inability to empathize in the latter. 
So, help him learn more empathy. Maybe encourage him to join in activities that help others-he might even find a girlfriend that way.

Also narcissism runs in families.

This is an excellent article on Narcisistic Personality Disorder
http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html

I


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## PirateQueen

heyxxmcfly said:


> Meetme is a website that seems to cater to a younger crowd. If he is 17 and going into college, I don't see why saying his 18 would be a bad thing (in its self) because it's a location based thing he could set it to the location of his new school so that he could get a jump start on meeting people. He doesn't have to meet offline or give out any specific information that he doesn't want. And most people on there aren't after sex. They simply want to meet people.


He can say he's 18 in a few months, when he turns 18.


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## chickabiddy

Besides the questionable ethics of lying to gain access to an adult website, any relationship that starts out based on a lie is not likely to be a good thing.


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## Taincurt

In my honest opinion, it is neither nice or fair for posters to be attacking the OP and now trying to give a mental diagnosis to the OP's son, just based on her short description of him online. 

Give your two cents, and then leave. If you don't think the OP is real then don't reply at all. 
The OP asked a specific question looking for specific types of answers. If you don't have one of those then you're not helping. 
Trying to give a mental diagnosis is really not helping. We can't even pretend to know about this person's actual life. We have what they told us to go off of. If they aren't being honest and want more applicable answers, they will learn that for themselves. 

I believe that if someone asks a specific question online, the only helpful thing is to answer that question. We aren't therapists.


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## moominmamma

Taincurt said:


> I believe that if someone asks a specific question online, the only helpful thing is to answer that question.


True, but have you read all 193 posts that preceded yours? People answered the question over and over and over again, and were accused, over and over and over again, of not answering the question. So they tried again. And again. And again. Always with the same result. It's hard to disengage when you give your most helpful advice and the person keeps responding "why aren't you helping me?!"

Miranda


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## MeepyCat

There are ten pages of this thread, which is the third created by the OP on the same subject. She has received consistent, and quite helpful, answers to her question. She doesn't like them. She keeps poking for a different answer. We've started theorizing about why and tearing our hair.

Whatever specific answers the OP is looking for, we are not able to supply them.


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## jazzmom74

A couple people mentioned ASD earlier. I am not trying to diagnose the OP's son at all, but did anyone see the Autism in Love special on PBS? One of the interviewees is a young man who is distraught in part because he wants to meet a girl. He admits to other frustrations too, but finding a girlfriend is a top priority. His segments are vibrant, insightful, and heartbreaking at times. I wonder if the OP would see any similarities between the kid in the film and her son. For the record, this boy...Lenny...is essentially feeling low because he feels different from his peers. At the end he is shown talking to the camera on break from his new job, which seems to give him a place to focus his energy. He seems much happier as he is building his self-worth in general. It is a very interesting show! Whether the OP' s son is autistic or not (she never suggested he was) this could be a good resource for her. The boy's mother is interviewed as well and overall it shows how putting your focus into another area may help with the initial problem. Disability or not.

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/autism-in-love/


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## Letitia

Taincurt, I agree, we're not therapists. 

On the other hand, if the poster were describing a boy crying due to abdominal pain and a fever, and asking what she could do to cheer him up, probably a lot of us would (I believe) be urging her to seek medical attention. I'm sure we're not all doctors, but many things don't require a "professional" to be identified as pathological.


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## Linda on the move

Taincurt said:


> The OP asked a specific question looking for specific types of answers. If you don't have one of those then you're not helping.
> Trying to give a mental diagnosis is really not helping.


People have posted many helpful posts, and they've been shot down. This isn't the first thread on this exact same topic.

I didn't give a mental diagnosis -- I stated that some of the traits were the same (which they are). That isn't enough to diagnosis, but there are red flags waving wildly that this teen is not OK and needs real help.


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## contactmaya

Taincurt said:


> trying to give a mental diagnosis to the OP's son, just based on her short description of him online.
> 
> 
> I didnt diagnose (Im not a psychiatrist), I pointed out help striking similarities between the hitherto unfathomable behavior of the OP's son, and personality traits of people with NPD. I posted to be helpful, because, yes, awareness of a condition and how it interferes with your life can be helpful.
> 
> Give your two cents, and then leave. If you don't think the OP is real then don't reply at all.
> 
> Well, we had this same debate on another thread. Its hard to tell if an OP is real, and sometimes you've got to give them the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> 
> The OP asked a specific question looking for specific types of answers. If you don't have one of those then you're not helping.
> Trying to give a mental diagnosis is really not helping.
> 
> We can't even pretend to know about this person's actual life. We have what they told us to go off of. If they aren't being honest and want more applicable answers, they will learn that for themselves.
> 
> I believe that if someone asks a specific question online, the only helpful thing is to answer that question. We aren't therapists.


Why are you so sensitive to this? The OP's son might take offence, you can never tell a narcissist directly that you think they are a narcissist. Would a mother be offended and find this unhelpful?(as a mother, I would want to explore further, but thats me), but random poster who just joined the thread?

Its just another weird day on MDC.


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## contactmaya

jazzmom74 said:


> A couple people mentioned ASD earlier. I am not trying to diagnose the OP's son at all, but did anyone see the Autism in Love special on PBS? One of the interviewees is a young man who is distraught in part because he wants to meet a girl. He admits to other frustrations too, but finding a girlfriend is a top priority. His segments are vibrant, insightful, and heartbreaking at times. I wonder if the OP would see any similarities between the kid in the film and her son. For the record, this boy...Lenny...is essentially feeling low because he feels different from his peers. At the end he is shown talking to the camera on break from his new job, which seems to give him a place to focus his energy. He seems much happier as he is building his self-worth in general. It is a very interesting show! Whether the OP' s son is autistic or not (she never suggested he was) this could be a good resource for her. The boy's mother is interviewed as well and overall it shows how putting your focus into another area may help with the initial problem. Disability or not.
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/autism-in-love/


Really interesting point....actually, I was just reading today that ASD and NPD can appear remarkably similar but one crucial difference is that narcs willfully manipulate others whereas those with ASD have no clue how to do that. Narcs can be very popular with charm and social skills, whereas those with ASD just want to belong but find acceptance hard. (I believe it was mentioned that the son has alot of friends)

I would have thought that the OP would be aware her son was on the spectrum, but not aware of he had NPD.


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## momscratch

This is a strange how long this is and everything that has been commented.

It sounds like maybe the girls at his school that he maybe finds visually attractive are not the type that he thinks are appropriate for someone he wishes to date. Maybe they wear too much makeup, drink ect. It also sounds like he is from a small town and is a little bit sheltered. Maybe what your seeing as flirting are girls he's just friends with and they aren't interested in him that way either. You need to try to take a step back and look at it objectively.

Everyone is pointing out how he shouldn't be upset, but it sounds like he is just wanting to connect with someone else who he thinks would understand him. Teenagers go through angst and boys go through hormonal fluctuations also. Also young people have strong ideals of how people should be and with age comes better understanding about that.

You probably don't want to be the mom who sets him up. But what you can do is offer advice and be there to listen.

Most people who whine they can't find someone can't and people who aren't looking do. The more his time is occupied the less time he has to stress out over things he can't control. While the girlfriend issue may seem trivial...an important part of growing up is learning how to deal with what you don't have control of and learning how to take the steps towards things you want to change. 

That is why everyone is suggesting going to activities where he can meet new people. He can volunteer, ect.

You may suggest that he ask out girls just as friends this will help him start getting over anxiety of asking girls out and he might learn he has more in common with someone than he previously thought. 

Something you may want to lookout for if he is sheltered and goes far away to college and there is drinking and partying and he feels like he doesn't fit in he could withdrawal more at school and you won't be there.

So you need to start helping him become independent, like teaching him to drive and help him make more different types of platonic relationships. Point out that sometimes the person you end up with can be the total opposite of you but you appreciate those differences.

Also another thing I would be worried is your son later ending up jumping into a relationship with an older women because they're more mature, understand him better, etc. and not have had any real dating experience.

Counseling..well if you son doesn't feel comfortable talking to them find someone he does. In reality there maybe more issues with his confidence and he doesn't quite know himself or how to express them to you.

Remember he is a teenager and it's like being on a roller coaster. So you have to have patience but you can't baby him either.


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## IsaFrench

after seeing this thread coming top of the list over and over ... i now feel the need to comment too !!!

IMO this is a weird complain (...but am not technically from the same culture even though i speak and write english ...)

Life is tough, not everybody marries, sometimes you see single adults (am thinking of two i mingle with at paid for recreative activities) and you wonder why such and such is still single, sometimes you do not wonder because that person may not be the type who seems the most popular to you, so you can understand that this person may not have found a significan other, even though when you get to talk to them you find them totally "normal" once past the first visual impression ....)

So ... i don't see that "having a girlfriend" is a GIVEN in life .... it may or may not happen AND IMO it's important to learn to be philosophical about it ... whilst i totally understand anyone who is looking for various ideas /suggestions/ steps to try to make it happen anyway ... and i DID said "*try*" .... but i don't mean "try VERY hard" ...... there was a VERY weird reality show a few years back, i cannot remember the name of it, but there were a few older moms pictured trying to get their resepective adult son a partner from a few chosen girls, chosen by the reality show people, ...it made you cringe really ....


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## hillymum

The only other suggestion I could think of is a group such as Adventure scouts. or he does a course this spring at a local college just to meet other people. That's it, I really believe every possible suggestion has been made. 


Don't forget, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.


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## hillymum

The only other suggestion I could think of is a group such as Adventure scouts. or he does a course this spring at a local college just to meet other people. That's it, I really believe every possible suggestion has been made. 


Don't forget, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.


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## Viola

fangaroo said:


> I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING. I'M ASKING WHAT HE CAN DO TO FIND A GIRL HE ACTUALLY LIKES! He does not want to wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It is understandable that you are frustrated, but it's not your job to fix it, even as his mother. As parents, can't fix it all, and strangers on a message board can give suggestions, but we definitely can't solve what you feel is the issue. The most you are going to get are things you've probably already thought of: church youth groups, community organizations like choirs or clubs. Someone mentioned Adventure Scouts, and there could be volunteer opportunities as well as social media and other friends in your area.

As his mother, I would sit down and have a thoughtful conversation with him, and ask him why he wants a girlfriend so badly, what is the thing he is most looking for in a relationship--I mean is it love, companionship, sex, reputation in school? Is he really lonely, is he worried there is something wrong with him?

You can give him some suggestions and see if he thinks there are any that would work. He would have to see a way for your suggestions to work, and that might be tricky, but remind yourself and him that it is not your job to fix it...unless you are from a culture where arranged marriages are still common, but I assume you are not.

If he cries, and it is triggering something in you, which it easily can, you may have to tell him that you have given him suggestions and he isn't willing to try any of them, so if he wants you to be a sounding board, you will need to set some limits. You might ask him what it is he expects from you and what he thinks is a reasonable action for you to take. You could also ask in an ideal world, what he would see happening.

I have a 16 year old daughter, and she has an issue that comes around and around and she cries about it sometimes. I've gotten to the point where I've had to lay out my understanding of the issue and let her know that it is not anything that I can help her with, the questions she has asked me she has asked me many times, and is never satisfied with the answer. It is related to her feelings of perfectionism and feeling like this is an issue that needs to be fixed. In my opinion, if what she is telling me is true, it's an unusual concern, and not one that seems very alarming, as long as it's not indicative of a much greater underlying problem. And sometimes I'm tired of hearing about it, since she just goes around in the same circles. I'm willing to help if she needs help, but there is only so much complaining I will tolerate before I tell her I'm not responding because there is nothing productive I can say.

I have no clue if you will be back to check this thread, but hopefully something in these threads has spurred you to come up with ideas. And if not, I'm sorry, but that's how these things often go.


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## SecondtimeMama

As someone else pointed out in the other busy thread started by the OP, about her 16 year old daughter, it's weird that neither thread mentions the twin sibling's issues. 

All things considered, the solution for this is likely that OP gets counseling for whatever is making them need to get attention by inventing stories for the internet.


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## Letitia

This thread actually does mention the sister, somewhere back in there. Not that it makes that much difference. I too believe that mental health care is needed.


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## moominmamma

Letitia said:


> This thread actually does mention the sister, somewhere back in there.


Briefly and dismissively, and only in response to my repeated direct questions about her.

Miranda


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## Ogirl74

I understand the teenage need to be like everyone else and do what everyone one else is doing.


However, I like others do NOT feel that the answer is to assist him in his endeavor of 'finding a girlfriend' per sae.


When my kids expressed the desire to date...I encouraged them to do the things they loved. To hang out with people who have the same interests and to pour themselves into those things. It is inevitable - in my opinion, that if you are doing something you love, and are happy, and are doing something you love happily around other people, you will attract like minded people.... aka new friends.
I always tell my kids the best dates, are with people who are already your friends.
So go make new friends...and then...just wait and see what comes. 


I'm not big a big proponent of counseling. I like to believe that we can solve 98% of life's stuff together as a family (and so far - so good).
I think most of the time people just need someone they can openly talk to without judgment, who has their best interest at heart, to help them see their way to new solutions. I try and be that person for my kids...but sometimes they have gone to others for similar advice. Which is fine.


Does your son have a dad around? or older brothers/cousins/uncles?
The best advice on 'how to meet girls' would likely come from someone who loves him, and knows his personality.


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## sillysapling

IsaFrench said:


> So ... i don't see that "having a girlfriend" is a GIVEN in life .... it may or may not happen AND IMO it's important to learn to be philosophical about it ... whilst i totally understand anyone who is looking for various ideas /suggestions/ steps to try to make it happen anyway ... and i DID said "*try*" .... but i don't mean "try VERY hard" ...... there was a VERY weird reality show a few years back, i cannot remember the name of it, but there were a few older moms pictured trying to get their resepective adult son a partner from a few chosen girls, chosen by the reality show people, ...it made you cringe really ....


There's a big problem in America of boys/"men" feeling entitled to women. One man actually did a mass shooting to voice his grievances. There is a movement of boys who feel like they're entitled to female companionship just by existing, and blame women for their grievances.

I definitely agree it's better to have a healthier perspective. For one thing: when you AREN'T actively trying, you tend to be more confident and relaxed and just more pleasant to get along with. So you're more likely to not only find a partner, but a good match.

(I haven't read the whole thread, I'm not saying this is what the OP's child is doing, I am not diagnosing or accusing anyone, I'm reporting a genuine phenomena that is tangentially related to this and is very, very, very, very worrisome to me)


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## IsaFrench

am so glad i'm not the only one to think that way .... i've been both interested AND surprised about the style of the various comments which have been going on for all these pages ....


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## SchoolmarmDE

I read every post in this tread and an older linked one, before replying.

My eldest son, who is 26, is sometimes sad when he doesn't have a girlfriend. However, he hasn't lost perspective enough to hook up with some of his former girl friends. I have every confidence he will find a wonderful girl and have lovely grand babies for me, but it won't be this week. He works too hard.

My daughter was sad she didn't go to prom. She's 20, having a semester in Rome and thinking about graduate school. She is not particularly looking for a boyfriend. She's having a wonderful time.

My second son is 18. Every once in a while he's on the ball enough to get some nice girl's phone number. This enables them to text each other to meet up at lunch and work on homework. College has lots of homework. Sometimes they watch movies with another bunch of friends.

My third son is 15. He really wants to learn to drive. He dances with everyone at teen dances. So far, doesn't seem to be a particular girl under consideration.

My youngest daughter complains she never has a big birthday party, she's 12. I point out that she doesn't like anyone enough to invite them. She concedes this is a potential issue. :grin:

The thing is, there's a lot of pressure, in this culture, for everyone to partner up. That doesn't suit everyone. I'm not surprised anyone's son hasn't found someone, particularly in a small pond. When I walk into a room with 100 people, it's highly unlikely I'll see anyone I would have a crush on. Takes a mass, in my experience.

So, although there's an element in me that would like to offer goats for the lovely young cashier/law student I would enjoy as a daughter in law, I just smile, pay for my groceries, and leave it alone. Some folks just bloom later, are more picky, or, frankly, haven't paid enough actual attention to other live humans to appreciate them. It comes in time. If I had it to do all over again, I'd have a lot more skills for picking up teenagers.

But, good heavens. Then I'd have been dating teenagers. The very idea makes me shudder.


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## contactmaya

Your post was so refreshing and gave insight into being a mother of adult/older children.


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## stormborn

Good one, schoolmarm! I like your writing style


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## Ashley4267

i hope he feels better


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## mumto1

Reading your post I feel your son is immature, and agree that it sounds like there are a whole bunch of other issues surrounding this situation. What are his expectations re: having a girlfriend? Is it just because he feels left out? Is it because he feels judged and rejected? He's got to have things to offer in a relationship and reasonable self confidence is one element. Loving yourself is step number one. So I think if my son were to bring this up (hasn't happened yet) I think that is what I would tell him. He's going to find somebody like himself for better or worse. Does he even talk to girls in a friendly, social way? Does he have regular friends that he could do casual group (boy/girl) stuff with?


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## 5796

katelove said:


> I admit I hadn't thought of that. My suspicion is that the OP is actually the son, not the mother. Assuming that this is a genuine thread of course.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep. I have the same thought.


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## mumto1

Re-reading everything, it would make sense it was a guy who was posting not a mom, if not, the mom is too involved and not allowing things to settle down to a more normal state unless there are actual mental health issues/there is something way off with the home culture. And the replies are eerily similar to a guy I knew in high school who had some serious mental issues. For one thing, he was adopted, I think he may have had FAS or something that was making things extra hard for him, for another, his parents were really out of touch and out of synch with a lot of other people I knew then (this kid wore cowboy boots and full on denim acid wash outfits, no-one else dressed like that and it wasn't a good look), making it even harder still for this guy to act "normal". He'd lie about stuff compulsively and thought because I befriended him out of pity, that he could threaten me into acting as his girlfriend. It was like he'd never learned how to relate to people properly and his behaviour was very creepy/scary, plus not the first guy who thought he could force a relationship on me by proximity.


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