# Would you still homebirth..???



## 5gifts (Nov 16, 2005)

...to stand up for the principle that homebirth is safe....or give it up for the hospital just to not have to deal with ignorant people judging that you put your baby in danger?

Suppose you 'knew' that basically you and baby would be fine, but baby would likely need ressusitation at birth, and possibly need to be transfered to the hospital if born at home. And farther, baby may end up having challenges due to genetic issues.

I usually do UC, my kids are vocal that 'babies should be born at home', and we are 4 miles from hospital. To stand up for what I believe in & set an example for my kids - I could hire a good midwife and have a 'safe' homebirth of a special needs baby. Even if we had to take baby into hospital afterwards - there could be no harm done. (And baby would get a gentle birth and resuss without being immediatly traumatized by an over-zelous hosp staff)

The drawbacks of that - A big chunk of $$$ for a midwife, it could be alarming for the kids to witness, especially if rescue squad comes, raising red flags with DCF (midwives at homebirth illegal here, crazy state of our farmhouse being renovated, six other kids hanging around). And the big one - people (family) judging that what I did was dangerous & harmed the baby. Like "see, it was dangerous, you had to call an ambulance/rush to the hosp." or "If you were in the Hospital, baby would have had better care and not ended up 'damaged'" That would be said & thought by many even if all issues were solely genetic with NO lack of oxygen brain injury...and I just don't know if I can deal with people being like that!!

Or I can take the 'easy way out'. I have a pretty cool lady OB, who thinks hb is a good thing, and who would let me labor & birth my way if in hosp. (a friend delivered with her and was able to nurse the baby for a half hour with every one just standing back, not even laying a hand on her, baby, cord, or placenta - til she was done, then she pushed the placenta out. But if baby is in distress, who knows how it will go.)
It is all paid for at the hospital. No one will blame me for the baby having any problems. (even if hosp intervention causes problem in feeding, infection, whatever)

So would you just kind of 'roll over' and just let go of alot of what you believe in - to get through this the best you can with the least 'friction'?


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## Belle (Feb 6, 2005)

subbing. would like to answer, but I'll have to come back later today to do so.


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## thefreckledmama (Jun 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *5gifts* 

The drawbacks of that - A big chunk of $$$ for a midwife, it could be alarming for the kids to witness, *especially if rescue squad comes, raising red flags with DCF (midwives at homebirth illegal here, crazy state of our farmhouse being renovated, six other kids hanging around).* And the big one - people (family) judging that what I did was dangerous & harmed the baby.

The bolded part is what I would be especially concerned with. In light of that, I don't think I could homebirth to stand up for the principle that homebirth is safe, with the variables you've outlined.

My personal thoughts on homebirth (and I know not everyone shares them precisely), is that homebirth IS safe, in most situations...but there ARE situations and conditions that birthing in a home setting with a midwife is NOT the best course of action. There ARE legitimate situations where a hospital birth-with midwife or OB-IS what is needed and the appropriate choice.

I think that when getting into the mindset of home birthing to prove principles or make a point when it's not the best/safest option, is when we start venturing into a gray area that then leaves home birth open to more intense scrutiny, giving critics the ammunition they need to argue against it on a widespread level.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

It would depend on what I felt to be best/safest for the baby at the end of it. I wouldn't do either to make a point, but I wouldn't be swayed by what others might think either.










-Angela


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

If I knew my baby would most likely need resuscitation at birth, I might choose to birth in a hospital. I wouldn't risk my health, the baby's health, a midwife's license, or traumatizing my other children just to prove a point. I think it may be a more valuable lesson for your children to know that hospital births have their time and place, too, rather than teaching them that hospitals are only bad.

But for me, the choice isn't about what people might think or say, it's about the health and safety of everyone involved.

Not to say you couldn't possibly have a normal and safe homebirth, but for me that is what I would do.


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## dachshundqueen (Dec 17, 2004)

I would not intentionally endanger a child I knew was going to be born with problems or my other children's emotional health over "homebirth is safe". Yes, I would seek out well trained doctors that understand and accept my wishes regarding hospital birth and I would make the necessary connections with an acceptable neonatal specialist, but no I would not homebirth. Homebirth is not safe in some instances, and if I were the potential midwife presented with what you have stated I would not agree to take you as a client especially as it presents _unnecessary_ legal risk to the midwife.

Liz


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## sweet.p (Jul 31, 2009)

I would re-frame my way of thinking.
I don't think it's aobut you "rolling over" or "avoiding friction" or "judgments" as you said, it's only about making the best choices for all the children in a very difficult circumstance.

I would go with the hospital birth and MD's.

Because you know you're having a special needs child and more likely to need advanced life support, or some other medical intervention.

So with this reality my choice to create the least traumatic situation in my home for the other children and not any risk disrupting the harmony of my home life, or CPS because of an illegal midwife.

That would be my choice, and not enter my mind I was caving into any pressure. But seeing as insuring there is calm around this birth for both the newborn and the other children.

Especially since you have the opportunity to use a lovely OB that you like, and feel she will protect your autonomy in a hospital while you give birth.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

I would go with the cool OB. Explain to her your concerns about having a gentle resuscitation if it's necessary.

I understand though, the feelings inside when you have to go with something you don't like and it almost proves that the doubters were right. You feel like they'll have power over you in some way. Put pride aside here and just go with your Mommy gut, not your "I'll show you." attitude. Yeah, a homebirth would probably go ok, but if it didn't...that would be even worse ammo for the naysayers.

I hope everything goes well. Two of my 4 births were in a hospital and they weren't bad. Not empowering, exactly, but not traumatizing either.


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## sweet.p (Jul 31, 2009)

I want to add that there are circumstances having a hospital birth with a respectful OB is so much less traumatizing then having a homebirth with an illegal midwife not trained to deal with the medical issues a special needs newborn has at birth.

Don't discount the traumatising effect on you and the whole family from the commotion to get a sick or not breathing newborn into an ambulance and rushed to a hospital.


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes* 
If I knew my baby would most likely need resuscitation at birth, I might choose to birth in a hospital. I wouldn't risk my health, the baby's health, a midwife's license, or traumatizing my other children just to prove a point. I think it may be a more valuable lesson for your children to know that hospital births have their time and place, too, rather than teaching them that hospitals are only bad.

But for me, the choice isn't about what people might think or say, it's about the health and safety of everyone involved.

Not to say you couldn't possibly have a normal and safe homebirth, but for me that is what I would do.


Yes, this.

I find it hard to believe you could find a homebirth midwife willing to take you with those kinds of risk factors.
Also, as someone who had a baby who needed ressusitation at birth, emergency transport to the hospital, intubation, and a 5 day stay in the nicu I can say that I would never want one of my kids to whitness it. My husband and I are adults, it was 5 years ago, and we still aren't over how terrifying it was.
Homebirth is safe and it's awesome but sometimes medical needs outweigh birth expeierience.


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## WildflowerChild (Aug 19, 2009)

Homebirthing can only be protected and proven safe/responsible when those of us who have legitimate medical needs seek help for those needs. I have never birthed at home. My first son was born at a hospital via cesarean out of ignorance and misplaced trust. My daughter was a planned HBAC. Unfortunately I developed a condition that forced us to discuss changing our plans. I didn't get my homebirth, but I made the best decision with the info I had. I still consider myself a homebirther because my philosophy is that birth is safe and natural for most mothers and should remain at home. Doctors and hospitals exist to help those of us with high risk situations. We cannot hope to be accepted as safe and normal if we are irresponsible when there are significant, known complications and we place our children and selves in danger. It sounds to me that there are strong reasons to change your plans. Yours is not a situation to prove something.


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

In the circumstances you describe, I would birth in the hospital.

You could potentially be dealing with a much longer period of trauma knowingly delivering a special needs baby outside of the hospital than what you would deal with inside...

In the current climate of birth in this country, all ramifications must be considered, even if it isn't fair.


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## soso-lynn (Dec 11, 2007)

My only concern would be safety. If, after a careful assessment, you determine that homebirth will be safe for you and your baby, do it. If you determine that the hospital would be safer, then go.

There is no need to do anything to make a point or to feel like choosing the hospital is anything but an informed decision. Other people's opinions have absolutely nothing to do with your real life.


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## sanguine_speed (May 25, 2005)




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## Sagesgirl (Nov 22, 2001)

The principle you _should_ be standing up for here is to make the best and safest decision for you and your baby-to-be (and, to a lesser extent, your already-here children). I sense this is what you want to do, but for some reason you find yourself too married to the "I must birth at home" thing. Let it go. Childbirth should be a matter of doing your best. Usually that involves home birth. But not always. It sounds like you have really good, legitimate reasons to opt for a hospital birth this time around, and quite honestly I'm not sure why you are second-guessing yourself so hard.


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## loveneverfails (Feb 20, 2009)

I would absolutely choose a hospital birth under those conditions, even though I really dislike hospital births and think they're a pain to deal with. I would choose a hospital birth and try to create an early discharge option if everything went well. Labor and delivery being best in the hospital in some cases absolutely does NOT mean that you have to be on the hook for the whole post partum annoyance.


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## seashells (Jan 23, 2009)

I think it would be a pro-homebirth choice to plan for known medical needs. It proves the safety of homebirth that you can assess your risks ahead of time and make arrangements accordingly.

Anti-homebirth people think it's all a total crapshoot or something, and that you'll just be at home pushing out a kid and all of a sudden it's a huge emergency. Which of course sometimes it can be.

I can understand your feelings, though. You'll probably never hear the end of it from anti-homebirth people who just don't get it. But the point of homebirth is not that it's 100% safer 100% of the time. The point is that it's safer when the preganancy is judged low-risk. If you know of a problem that requires medical intervention, then you get it. Just like you'd go to the doctor if you broke your arm, though you don't need to go if your arm ain't broke (or something like that







).


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

Have you found a midwife willing to deal with those risks? I had a homebirth midwife tell me (when I was asking about the possibility of certain problems that we'd be testing for) that if you're *sick* or the baby's *sick* then you belong at the hospital for birth - that's what hospitals are for, sick people. If you're having a healthy pregnancy and a healthy baby, why not at home? But if you *know* one of you is going to need help, I suspect you'll have a hard time finding a midwife willing (or legally able) to take on that risk.


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## 5gifts (Nov 16, 2005)

Thanks everyone. A little bit of what I said came out a little wrong, but I think you all got the gist of what I'm trying to weigh. I didn't mean it so much as I want to 'prove a point' even in the face of 'known' medical need.

See the thing is, The doc hasn't seen or found a thing wrong with me or baby...yet - I still have 10 weeks. I was just going to stay home & birth by default, unless something came up in the end. But last month I suddenly decided I wanted to hire a MW to be here just in case. Like having her would be enough to prevent us from heading to the hospital. She would have oxygen and bag -no intubulation or epinepherine. Maybe the baby would be ok enough to stay out of hosp, and we'd start working with the ped on the needs of baby. But I haven't been able to have a calm mind at all this preg & have had such morbid gloom & doom....so if you take a peek at my thread in ask an intuitive







you'll see what I'm now debating about....

What CHaoticzenmom said is more how I feel:

"I understand though, the feelings inside when you have to go with something you don't like and it almost proves that the doubters were right. You feel like they'll have power over you in some way. Put pride aside here and just go with your Mommy gut, not your "I'll show you." attitude. Yeah, a homebirth would probably go ok, but if it didn't...that would be even worse ammo for the naysayers."

Sooo....initially my thinking was that I hire a very experienced & level-headed midwife for this birth. But that scares me & I feel like I'm too 'chicken'. However, the kids & other moms that know me well (not even particularly crunchy - just have know me & what I'm like for years) when I explain how I think this birth/baby might turn out - have all still said have your homebirth, don't worry what other people think. But it makes my brain hurt and I don't want to think & make decisions anymore!!!! So I feel like I want to turn off my brain, run to the hospital & let the docs take care of everything & run the show.

Alot of what Sweet.p said resonates with why I want to just go to the hosp. But I do feel like I'm just caving in and not necessarily weighing which is the best for me & baby. I honestly think that either way I go - everything will turn out fine. But the one I most believe in is SCARY!

As for the midwife, unless any real medical indication shows up that baby or I are higher risk - she will attend me. Its only gut feelings & intuition. There is just the normal risk of resusitation that comes with any birth. No indication of heart problems or the need for life support equipment - nothing showed on a 27 week ultra sound. If I knew having her here would be enough to keep us out of the hosp - I'm all for it. She said 'If only we had a cyrstal ball







'

Maybe this question then....If you had amnio and confirmed that a baby had Down's syndrome (just an example - that's not particularly what I think about this one, but who knows)....would it still be reasonable to homebirth. I assume baby might be 'not so robust' low muscle tone, slow to start, weak sucking type stuff. But no heart condition. I would want to be so on top of it that we start working with the ped right away on feeding issues, reflux, lathargy, test for metabolic/mito stuff, swallow issues, muscle test me/baby for foods to avoid (our chiro does that -some of my kids have wierd food intollerences), nip BF problems in the bud, get lots of chiro care...ect..And all that would keep us out of NICU. Where we would otherwise certainly end up there - if we were clueless about the special need...as things quickly went down hill the first few days/weeks.

Ok - so this post turned a little rambly....that last part is just some of the musings going on in my head







Like if I call all the shots & do everything just right, I can be the 'super mom' and be so on top of my baby's needs that we don't even need to be admitted to the hosp and have the 'bumbling' docs try to figure out what's wrong and try to get me to feed the baby all kinds of crap....TOTALLY not ment to be offensive to someone that has already walked that path. Just my mind playing out a scenerio of how I would want it in a perfect world. Obviously it would never be so black and white - that my way is right and all the docs are crazy









Well, I'll stop for now....


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## stik (Dec 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *5gifts* 

Suppose you 'knew' that basically you and baby would be fine, but baby would likely need ressusitation at birth, and possibly need to be transfered to the hospital if born at home. And farther, baby may end up having challenges due to genetic issues.


Organic brain damage starts at 4 minutes without O2. You said you are four miles from the hospital. How long do you think it would take the paramedics to get to you? How much training in neonatal resuscitation do your local paramedics have? Do they carry the equipment needed to intubate a newborn?

In my mind, there's a huge disconnect between your assertion that you "know" you and the baby will be fine, and your explanation that the baby will likely need resuscitation at birth. For myself and my own children, needing resuscitation at birth is not fine - it's really scary and dangerous.

Given that you've got a great OB, I don't think there's anything to be gained by a home birth in the situation you describe.

ETA: We cross-posted, and I didn't see your second post. So what I see now is that you have a strong intuition that something may be wrong, but there is no medical indication supporting your intuition right now?

I think, to an extent, you have to listen to your intuition. If your intuition is telling you something is up, but you don't know what, you might feel safer in a hospital and things might genuinely be OK at home. It's a hard call to make. How would you feel about laboring at home and transferring if things felt "off"? Do you really have to decide now, or can you alert your support people and make decisions in response to events?


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

In light of your recent post, OP, I think I'd just go with the midwife... but then, I tend to be anxious and freak out about those kinds of things... my intuition plays tricks with me, I guess...


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

If I *knew* my baby was going to need help at birth, I'd suck it up and go to the hospital.

I totally believe homebirth as a general rule is safe. But there are circumstances that make _individual_ births not very safe, if the goal is a live, healthy baby. Sometimes crap happens and it's unavoidable. If you *know* it's going to happen, then you do your best to avoid as much as you can, even if it means things aren't exactly as you'd dreamed they would be.

If pride or fear are tempting you to ignore a strong inuition (and your intuition is generally reliable) that your baby would need help immediately, then those are some issues that need to be dealt with. If you go in for the safety of your baby, you're not a lesser woman, you're not a lesser mother and you're not "chicken". Has someone told you that you would be?


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

It really depends on what is going on.

I knew there was problems with my ds and decided not to HBAC. There are a lot of different things that would affect my decisions.

I wouldn't have an amnio, but I did have ultrasounds. I had about twenty u/s with a specialist and they couldn't tell exactly what was going on. There are a lot of things that they cannot tell from u/s or amnio.

Quote:

If pride or fear are tempting you to ignore a strong inuition (and your intuition is generally reliable) that your baby would need help immediately, then those are some issues that need to be dealt with. If you go in for the safety of your baby, you're not a lesser woman, you're not a lesser mother and you're not "chicken". Has someone told you that you would be?








I agree.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *5gifts* 
.Even if we had to take baby into hospital afterwards - there could be no harm done. (And baby would get a gentle birth and resuss without being immediatly traumatized by an over-zelous hosp staff)

The drawbacks of that - A big chunk of $$$ for a midwife, it could be alarming for the kids to witness, especially if rescue squad comes,


If I had _real knowledge_ that my baby stood a good chance of requiring resuscitation, I would not birth at home.

The training and experience of the person doing the resuss is incredibly important, especially if you're talking about more than just blow-by O2 and brisk rubbing. If I had a choice between having someone who specialized in intubating neonates and starting umbilical lines versus having the first responder for my county tumble into my house and try to save my baby... well, it wouldn't be a choice. Around here, depending on time of day and day of week, that first responder might be an ambulance crew, it might be fire squad with one EMT, or it might be a sheriff's deputy who took a first aid course in the last two years.

They are all dedicated emergency professionals and I feel fortunate that one of them would almost certainly be at my door within 3 minutes of me putting down the phone -- but NONE of them likely have REAL WORLD experience of a baby born non-responsive and in need of the whole 9 yards.


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## RedPony (May 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
It would depend on what I felt to be best/safest for the baby at the end of it. I wouldn't do either to make a point, but I wouldn't be swayed by what others might think either.










-Angela

I had to think about this, but I believe Angela made my point for me.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I haven't read the whole thread. I'd do what was best for my family, which means me, the baby _and dh and my earthside children_.

In my case, after my failed HBA3C attempt ,which ended in a hospital transfer, emergency c/s, and a stillbirth, I chose to have my last baby by scheduled section. I did _not_ think that was best for my baby, which is embarrassing to admit. However, I did think it was best for my family, overall. We had the police and CPS briefly involved when we lost Aaron, which wasn't good for the family, especially dh. I was also really concerned about my mental state during the pregnancy, if I were planning another HBAmC, especially with the negativity from certain quarters. So, we chose the hospital.


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

i don't really know how to answer this one.

i think it's because of "what i believe in." i believe in women being free to choose the safest method of birth for the individual pregnancy. this means that a hospital c-section is "as valid" as a UC. they are all valid choices.

circumstances of individual pregnancies dictate that we may make different choices at different times. for one birth, a UC might be perfect; for another birth, a hospital.

therefore, there is nothing to "stnd up" to/for/against. it is simply that this birth requires these things.

now, lets assume that there's a risk of harm to the baby just after birth--i know the risk is there and it's fairly high. it's not absolute, but a possibility. lets also assume that the risk isnt' immediate. if you can get to a hospital within the hour, then there's no problem. it might be helpful to be there sooner, but no worries if you don't.

i would chose to have the birth that would give that child the best possible outcome. this could be home, because there is the chance that there won't be a problem, and thus it would probably be safest. but, it could also be at the hospital, particularly if i felt it would provide the best outcome if there ws a problem.

i think that, for me, it's not about a "stand" so much as what is right for that birth. i'd do what is right.


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## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

If your intuition is telling you something is up, I would definitely listen to that voice, and not ignore it. I'd make the choice that I would think would have the best outcome. I am also a UC-er, but in the circumstances you describe, I would at least very strongly consider going to hospital. It is great that you have a "cool OB" - that is much more than what most people birthing in hospitals get to have. Don't underestimate the power of that.

As for the midwife, how well do you know her, and how much do you know about her abilities to act in emergency situations?


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## sweet.p (Jul 31, 2009)

This is all about intuition







and a "psychic" on a parenting forum. How about a real diagnostic test?

You don't know for real if anything is wrong with your baby???? Why are you bothering with what anyone else thinks if you have faith in psychics and your "_diagnostic intuition"._


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## Landover (Oct 12, 2007)

Choosing a home birth because of what people would say is just as bad as choosing a hospital birth based on what people say. Would I ever birth a baby at home that I knew was going to need special care immediately after birth just to prove a point.... NO!! We all get upset when people adhere so strongly to the notion that hospital birth is always right... it is not better to adhere to the notion that homebirth is always right.

Your baby will need medical intervention immediately after birth... that is exactly what hospitals were created for (and why they are so wonderful). It makes no sense to put baby in added danger, stress, trauma just to prove a point (in which the point will be lost if an emergency squad comes screaming down your street to rush you baby to the hospital after birth). The point you want to make (homebirth is safe) won't have even been made because it will look like an example of how it was not safe and thank goodness you got to the hospital on time.

Please go to the hospital and put the needs of you newbie ovre your need to prove a point.


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## billikengirl (Sep 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweet.p* 
I would re-frame my way of thinking.
I don't think it's aobut you "rolling over" or "avoiding friction" or "judgments" as you said, it's only about making the best choices for all the children in a very difficult circumstance.

I would go with the hospital birth and MD's.

Because you know you're having a special needs child and more likely to need advanced life support, or some other medical intervention.

So with this reality my choice to create the least traumatic situation in my home for the other children and not any risk disrupting the harmony of my home life, or CPS because of an illegal midwife.

That would be my choice, and not enter my mind I was caving into any pressure. But seeing as insuring there is calm around this birth for both the newborn and the other children.

Especially since you have the opportunity to use a lovely OB that you like, and feel she will protect your autonomy in a hospital while you give birth.


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## 2boyzmama (Jun 4, 2007)

I know that you know my story.

Second son born special needs with a genetic syndrome (unknown he had it until birth, the one 20 week ultrasound I had was "normal"). He did require resuscitation at birth, and there were other complications in the weeks/months that followed.

Third pregnancy...what to do? We talked at length with a genetics counselor to understand our risks. I sought out information from experts thousands of miles away so my local radiologist would know what to look for on the ultrasound. We refused any other testing, had only an ultrasound to help us decide whether it was safe to birth at home.

I agonized over the decision, and that was armed with detailed information on the statistics of my son's particular syndrome. I knew exactly what could be wrong with him, I knew what kind of interventions were likely to be needed.

In the end, I chose a birth center within a hospital. I talked long and hard with my OB, told him that I wanted to birth basically unassisted, that I just wanted the backup of the technology in case my son needed it. It was a hard decision, and it was even a hard birth because yes I did have to fight in the middle of labor to get the birth I wanted, and even then there were more interventions than I wanted.

BUT...in the end...I decided that it was easier for me to live with a non-perfect birth in a hospital than a wonderful beautiful homebirth that ended in tragedy. I knew I had a higher risk, and I wasn't able to mitigate the risk, therefore it made more sense to be in the hospital. I wish that wasn't the case. I wish that I could have somehow lowered my risk. But we all have to make decisions that we don't like. When we're stuck between a rock and a hard place, we have to choose the smoothest surface, even if it's still cold and hard.

I don't know what I would do in your case. I often second-guess my intuition, but in the end my intuition has almost always been right. I think I would do a whole lot of soul searching, talking to the baby, maybe even employ some more technology (another ultrasound, even consider a late amnio). Obviously technology can't tell us everything, but if it can bring your comfort level to a more manageable place, then it might be worth it.

Birthing in a hospital or with assistance at home is not bad. It's just overused.


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## Plummeting (Dec 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sanguine_speed* 
Prove what point? Isn't the point that homebirth is safe much of the time, and that hospitals are for when we need medical help? So what would you be proving?

This! I also think it's much more important for your children to learn that there are exceptions to every rule than for them to learn that home birth is safer or better than hospital birth - since it _isn't always_.


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## RedOakMomma (Sep 30, 2004)

I find this thread upsetting, though I realize a lot of that is my own baggage.

I don't think birthing a potentially sick child at home is a good idea at all.

It's also a little disturbing that this is all hypothetical. It feels a little voyeuristic...as if someone who doesn't really have something bad happening to them is trying to feel out what it *might* be like to have something bad, something traumatic, something exciting happen at birth. It's morbid and ghoulish...especially in a place where you know so many women have had tragic births, birth losses, and dead children. Heck...a woman who actually HAS a baby with a heart defect was posting just days ago.


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## loveneverfails (Feb 20, 2009)

RedOakMomma,







. I am so so sorry for your loss.


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## 5gifts (Nov 16, 2005)

Storm Bride, it breaks my heart to think about what it must have been like for your family when you lost Aaron. Frankly, up until a week ago, my mental state seemed so lost/out of control...but just in a vague but pervasive way - especially if I tried to figure about anything related to this pregnancy. My mind kept walking through scenerios similar to the events you went through with Aaron. When I first had the thought of getting a midwife to come to the house, my thought process was specifically for her to be able to check for fetal demise at onset of labor....yeah morbid....so I could just go on into the hospital as if I was coming in in regular old labor & let the hosp 'discover' it...with no red flags of attemt/failed homebirth...as far as the hosital staff was concerned.

Anyway, in the past week I have felt much more settled. Though connecting to this baby...it's just not there...maybe I need to really get centered & work on it and it will come. I'm basically just a prayerful person and I have always 'know'/felt confident in my directions & life decissions - when they felt right...even if others around me have been concerned. If I'm at peace about it - no sweat...even when things turn into a crazy rollercoaster (like getting this farm) I can be at peace & hang on for the ride...while everyone else frets it'll turn out badly. But even the 1st farm I tried to buy, while all the pieces seemed to just fall in my lap & many people were suprisingly encouraging....in the end I felt such termoil - even fear, and had to step away. I was depressed that I would never be able to work out my dream. But I'm not really all that "woo-woo" as I've heard it refered to around here. I have received great help for my kids from chiros & natural type healers, that I truely believe have a gift - from seeing their abilities and the results.

So with this baby, I haven't felt a connection. I have not had a single dream even of anything to do with any baby, birth or being pregnant in any way. I have LOTS of dreams - always have - they run the whole gammet of real-bizzare. My last 2 pregnancies I felt I really knew the baby from 4-5 months on. One of them seemed to really 'talk' to me, mentally in my dreams. And I had so many variations of dreams about his actual birth. With all my babies I can vicariously feel their personallities and emotions myself. Its been VERY accurate of their personality traits. This one...there is nothing. The only thing that comes over me is 'sadness'. The only thing that - just this weekend it dawned on me I might be feeling 'through' the baby - is hard to explain, but since 3 mths I have had strange trouble with the 'effects' of eating. I don't want to go on & on about it, but basically I can't and don't eat very often or very much - and I feel fine and can function. If I do eat -or tell myself I 'need' to - I get weird stuff going on. Like munch a bannana or nibble at dinner, and suddenly I am shaking with deep chills that just wont go away. Sometimes it seems everything I put in my mouth gives me burning reflux. Anytime I'm digesting a meal, I'm just wasted with my heart pounding and breathing heavy. I've talked to the doc about it, we did 24 hour urine & more blood tests & thyroid ect. Everything is fine. I have had pre-e before, so I have been looking for it to creep up on me. Nope, I don't even have slightly puffy ankles yet. SOOOO....this weekend when I stepped out of the house to stand in the sun, cause I was shivery...an internal thought hit me like a ton of bricks that these are the symptoms of the baby's condition that he/she will present with.

Another thing is that I am not a 'need to control or plan' type person. To most, I seem all 'free flow & messy' I never plan my days, much less my births. I guess I just make decisions 'in the moment' Like I never give any thought to how I 'want it to be' detail wise - in the tub or on the bed, see baby coming out, who touched first...whatever. I just go with my own flow, and never know what I'll really end up doing.

Zoebird said:
"now, lets assume that there's a risk of harm to the baby just after birth--i know the risk is there and it's fairly high. it's not absolute, but a possibility. lets also assume that the risk isnt' immediate. if you can get to a hospital within the hour, then there's no problem. it might be helpful to be there sooner, but no worries if you don't.

i would chose to have the birth that would give that child the best possible outcome. this could be home, because there is the chance that there won't be a problem, and thus it would probably be safest. but, it could also be at the hospital, particularly if i felt it would provide the best outcome if there ws a problem.

i think that, for me, it's not about a "stand" so much as what is right for that birth. i'd do what is right. "

This is exactly the scenerio that my mind keeps revolving around! In this case, it just MIGHT be best for the baby to be born at home. But how do I KNOW?! I'm not worried about labor & delivery - I can get that done quick and easy : ) If it turned out badly at home....yeah, I know....its ugly....
So the safest DECISION to make (not necesarily safest for baby), is hospital. I guess I would have to have some really serious 'signs' and some heavy duty peace over the situation - to be comfortable staying home. It 'feels' so odd saying it like this, because with the others there was never even any serious 'thought' put into safety/danger. This is just not like me. Nothing REALLY bad 'should' happen in the hosp....you know....but....I guess unless I get strong feelings that the hospital is totally the wrong place to be....that's where we'll go. It it just dawned on me, that my last birth, I did have a visceral reaction that I just COULD NOT go to the hosp. - the same hosp as this time too. And it was legit - he was a really rough brow presentation, pretty purple face, a little stuck at the shoulders - turned deep purple before I got him the rest of the way out...we were all fine & he was screaming mad - didn't have to wonder if he was breathing : ) I'm sure they would have started yelling for a CS & never would have let me move around to preform the acrobatics I did to get him out!

Thanks, for letting me, I guess, mentally spew on here - my brain hurts from talking to itself







I love to read on MDC, but I don't post significantly. When I try to, I end up feeling funny about it - kind of don't like 'putting myself out there'....I don't know.

I don't think I'm going to get any better of a 'feel' for my decision until I talk to my doc next Mon. - and after that sit & talk with the MW. I haven't seen the doc in a month, but she can't see me this week. What with the house explotion & all...she's a bit busy right now







Our little small town happenings last week...her house didn't explode, but the one across the street did. Her's is one of the 7 others that took enough structural damage to be condemned & will be demolished. So she has to deal with clearing it out & living elsewhere. Actually for the family of the exploded house, there's not much for them to 'do' - There was nothing left but 'tooth-picks' scattered on a bare lot. It was just crazy! But we thank God NO ONE got hurt. We are 3 miles away and felt the blast of wind hit us & the whole house shook like something hit us. Houses in a mile radius had busted windows, cracked frames & doors, and garage doors blown in. So I haven't bothered to try to talk to her at all last week. I've been in the herb shop brainstorming with them about supplements & my heartburn....the owner there has a condemned house too...so does the principle at the elementry school...and 4 friends have 'damage'. We almost bought in that neighborhood when we moved here 7 years ago.....put our 1st offer on a house there.

I could meet with the midwife this week, but I want to have a long talk with the doc first. Also, we have chicks coming the end of the week (like 96,000...not a back yard flock) - and I don't really want to run an hour away on Wed. - while the kids are getting the houses prepped. Those gas heaters make me nervious - especially after that gas explosion!

Well, I guess you can tell - I'm just a bit looney lately! Thanks for putting up with me...like I tell my husband....I can't wait to be done with this and get back to my normal self...whatever that is...because I can't even remember it anymore....but it surely isn't THIS!!


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## sweet.p (Jul 31, 2009)

5gifts said:


> Well, I guess you can tell - I'm just a bit looney lately! QUOTE]
> 
> You said a mouthful.
> 
> ...


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## 5gifts (Nov 16, 2005)

(sorry, I took so long - I didn't see anything from 2boyzmamma on before)
RedOakMomma, I'm so sorry. I hate that my ramblings are hurtful.
You are right that it is morbid & I do feel 'crazy' - but its not coming from being voyeuristic (I can't help what's spinning in my head, that I can't even say out loud to DH. I let a little out on here, but I think it end up sounding...flipant? really, I'm on the verge of tears all day. before last week, I was really loosing it, convinced this baby would die, because of the dread I can't get rid. I actually feel so much more ok and not so disgustingly morbid that I feel this baby will be ok, but weak)- there is alot more going on that is 'bad' in life right now...its been really hard since last Aug. - in many areas. Granted NOT AT ALL as hard as what you have been through in several areas for quite a few years. I do know your background - and I would not want to trade my version of 'this sucks' for your own.

No, I have not had the level of tragedy with my here & now kids that you have. But there has been a good bit of tragedy to deal with in the past, and amungst all the crap that's been piled on us lately, there is a situation with a little one I'm close to, but has shook me none the less - for the past 2.5 mnths - that is thankfully sooo much better now - but will never be 'all better'

Life is complicated, and there are reasons that I read in SN and foster/adopt forum more than any, other than general parenting. (lets just say SN & adoption issues are close to my heart -especially when my 'summer daughters' are here) I just don't post, and I don't want to go into all that. So I have read alot of your posts. And I really admire you & others that really post alot on there. I feel you guys do such a good job of letting people really 'know' you on line, and letting people learn about & understand what you go through. I have tried - even on a smaller nice birth forum - to really contribute and get my real self to come across. But I just come out wrong online - people take me quite differnetly IRL - and I just don't come across right when I post.

Soooo even this post took me forever,(doesn't help I keep gettnig interupted by kids & a feed truck showed up unexpectantly and the guy almost let the horses out opening the gate! And I type slow!) so I don't know what if any has been posted. But I'm going to beg out of posting anymore until I have had appointments or know something more.


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## 5gifts (Nov 16, 2005)

Well, I also wanted to say, I put this in just general birth & beyond, because it WOULD be offensive to post in SN so vague & hypothetically. I agree! I first thought the general pregnancy forum...but even that is not right...seemed too yucky to bring it up there. I didn't think I should put it specifically in UC or homebirth, so I thought this spot was ok.

If reading any of this adds to someone's hurt, I'm really sorry







I truely, truely understand that when grieving or in a truely trying situation - a lot of little 'problem' other people have & make a big deal about how upsetting it is, or how awful their 'lesser' situation is.....can just make you want to scream. So I'm not going to keep this going - other than just a quick update if its warrented. Thanks


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## BMG580 (Jun 19, 2007)

As I understand it, homebirth is safe IF the pregnancy is low risk and the mom and baby are both healthy with no known issues. Your situation as stated in your original post does not meet that criteria. Even if it is just your intuition is telling you something could be wrong, that should be weighed and considered carefully.

JMO!


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## RedOakMomma (Sep 30, 2004)

5gifts, thank you for posting more about your feelings and motivation in posting this thread.







Like I said, I don't think it would bother me so much without my personal baggage and experiences.

If you think there could be something wrong, even though the tests aren't showing anything, then do yourself the favor of having help with you when this baby is born. Midwife at home or at the hospital--just someone. You don't know what, if any, preventions or help could save the life of a child, but take it from me--if you think something is wrong, and you don't act on it, and something DOES go wrong...it's very hard to work past that. Even in a bad outcome, as there was with James in the end, there is peace in knowing that, as a parent, I did everything I reasonably could to protect him.

I think your baby is probably fine. Really. If things have been going badly for you over the last many months, that could explain a lot of why your mental landscape feels different in this pregnancy than in others. Personally, I've found that there is no real "warning" that happens before tragedy. My three losses have all happened at times in life when everything was sunny, happy, and peaceful. Other times, when I was depressed, or anxious, or worried about the worst? Nuthin. It was just me, consumed with my own worries and trapped in a mental state that wouldn't let up. Didn't mean that something bad was about to happen.

Best of luck to you. Please update us all when the baby is born.


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## *MamaJen* (Apr 24, 2007)

Do you think you might be a little bit depressed now? Because that might explain the feeling of impending doom.


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

it is rather snarky to assert that a diagnostic test is the end all and be all--particularly when we know that there can be false outcomes of those tests, false readings of the information, etc.

while diagnostic tests can be helpful, intuition can tell a person a lot.

for years, my friend had major stomach issues. every diagnostic test came back with nothing. yet she kept seeking out opinions. finally, a doctor told her she was depressed and medicated her for that. but the pain continued.

finally, it was discovered that she had advanced stomach cancer. she died within a year of the diagnosis. "if only it had been caught sooner!" was the chant.

what is ironic is that she told her doctors--including the one who prescribed medication for depression--that she was pretty sure she had a cancer growing, or something serious--but they couldn't find it on any test. so when it was finally discovered--too late--she was pretty ticked with those doctors.

so, diagnostic tests arent' everything. they miss things.

flip side, sometimes they find things that aren't real. one friend was told her child would ahve downs syndrome. she prepped for a downs syndrome baby in every way--learning about it, joining the community, gathering resources. baby was born 100% normal. diagnostic test wasn't accurate.

this is nto to say hold onto feelings of impending doom. or that tests aren't valuable.

btu they aren't the end all and be all. they are part of the picture. if you fear that there is a problem, work to find out what it is or may be--even if that means going with people's instincts on the matter (and a lot of good doctors have good instincts and know of good diagnostic tests to back that up). even if it means just trusting your intuition until you get an answer that makes sense.

and at the end of the day, you make the choices that you make based on the information that you have. you do your best, and that's all you can do.


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## honey-lilac (Jun 30, 2009)

Didn't read the replies, but I couldn't not reply.

I don't choose where to birth due to any statements I am making or want to make. I think one should birth where one feels comfortable and safe and where they feel they should be. I have had a birth center birth, then a UC, and am planning a homebirth right now - but if it turns out that my baby will be having special needs that make hospital birth seem like a good choice, I would/will be going to the hospital. If I wasn't completely comfortable with the labor setting it would interfere with my ability to labor. If it seemed as if the baby would benefit from extra help at birth, I would want people around me to help - that's what they're there for. Homebirth/UC/etc is for "normal" births, healthy moms and babies, etc. Of course, things happen in the best of situations, we all know that, there are no guarantees - but if I *knew* ahead of time that my child would need resus etc I would be in the hospital. With as many supportive people as possible - supportive doctors, doulas, family, whatever it took to make it as natural/good a birth as possible.


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## JennTheMomma (Jun 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefreckledmama* 
The bolded part is what I would be especially concerned with. In light of that, I don't think I could homebirth to stand up for the principle that homebirth is safe, with the variables you've outlined.

My personal thoughts on homebirth (and I know not everyone shares them precisely), is that homebirth IS safe, in most situations...but there ARE situations and conditions that birthing in a home setting with a midwife is NOT the best course of action. There ARE legitimate situations where a hospital birth-with midwife or OB-IS what is needed and the appropriate choice.

I think that when getting into the mindset of home birthing to prove principles or make a point when it's not the best/safest option, is when we start venturing into a gray area that then leaves home birth open to more intense scrutiny, giving critics the ammunition they need to argue against it on a widespread level.

I completely agree.


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## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

I felt really weird about my 3rd baby and home birthing, really wasn't sure about any of it and I really didn't connect with her, I was sure something bad was going to happen.

In one sense, everything turned out ok, in another, it didn't. Birth was perfect, at home, unplanned UC, however, 8 days later we were in hospital because she had developed a UTI (although they suspected meningitis). After the hospital event, all my weird feelings settled down. I don't know, maybe my intuition was right??????

Anyway, if you are concerned about the baby, maybe go with the hospital.


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## Apple Girl (Nov 2, 2007)

I'd go with a hospital birth. If nothing else, it will calm your anxiety about the situation. Since you mention a good rapport with the OB, things will probably be fine.


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