# How careful are you with nuts if your child doesn't have allergies (ie residue and potential harm to children who DO have allergies)



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I'm not sure exactly how to put this question. My kids do not have any allergies. My kids eat a lot of nuts - tree nuts and peanuts both. They eat peanut butter and other nut butters. Nuts are a big part of our diet here.

I worry about them being covered with nut dust and having potential peanut butter smears on them and then taking them out. Like I take them to the park, they get peanut butter on them, etc. I know one little girl who will get a big welt on her arm if you have touched something containing nuts and then touch her arm. I know how sensitive this allergy can be. How careful should I be? How careful are you?

I'm hoping both moms with kids WITH and WITHOUT allergies will reply. What do moms with nut-allergic kids want us to know/do? I want to be considerate, but I don't know how much I need to do.


----------



## Boot (Jan 22, 2008)

It's in the back of my mind. I try to avoid buying the kids any snacks with peanuts in them and we only have almond butter at home. A lot of places around here are peanut-free (i.e. kids lessons and activities). If, for some reason, I have a peanut snack for the kids I have them eat it away from other kids and wash their hands and face afterwards. I wouldn't say I'm overly vigilant though. My little daycare girl brings peanut butter from home and I don't make her brush her teeth and have a shower before we go out or anything.


----------



## SimonMom (May 19, 2004)

honestly it doesn't effect what/how i feed my kids nuts at all unless there's a child with nut allergies in class and i'm bringing in something for the whole class. then of course i'm super careful.


----------



## ShadowMoon (Oct 18, 2006)

We avoid bringing nut-laced things to school or other places with nut bans but that's about it. We consume many nut products and I'm not overly vigilant unless I know we'll be coming into contact with someone that has an allergy. Otherwise I just make sure we wash our hands and go on our way.


----------



## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

My son is a very neat eater, getting smears of peanut butter on him would be rare and it would bother him. But I don't offer him peanut butter snacks before we go out if we are going to be with kids with nut allergies. I'll wash my hands, around my mouth, and brush my teeth before going out (I like peanut butter on toast for breakfast). But I don't worry as much about it if we aren't meeting people that I know have allergies. Still, we aren't walking around with PB smears on us. I just figure I'm not going to be kissing anyone when I run errands so I might not wash my face.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Well, hmm. One likes peanuts in the shell and has bits of peanut shell over her pretty often, and the other likes peanut butter and gets her food in her hair every time she eats somehow, plus on her clothes.


----------



## rubidoux (Aug 22, 2003)

Wow. I seriously never thought twice about giving my little one peanut butter and then going to the playground or somewhere where he might smear fingerprints on the equipment or other kids. I'll have to be more conscious of that in the future. I doubt I'd do an extra tooth-brushing or shower or something, but I will try to wipe him down with a wet cloth. As far as I know we've never known a child with a serious nut allergy. I actually can't think of anyone that's had any sort of nut allergy. My older one goes to a tiny school though.

Both of my children have decided recently decided that they don't like peanut butter any more, so this might not be much of an issue for us.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

My sons daycare, and the school he will go to in the fall, do not allow anything with nuts at all. So he doesn't eat nuts at school. But he eats a granola bar with peanut butter everyday after school - it prevents pretty major meltdowns.


----------



## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I do not send my kids to school with nut products, nor do we eat overtly nut products during breakfast on school days. There are two highly allergic children in my boys' class and while they're older now and very knowledgeable about how to protect themselves...when I was a preschool teacher I had to use an epi-pen on one of my students because another student's parent sent them to class with a handful of peanuts in their pocket (despite the fact that we had repeatedly asked for them not to do stupid things like that). I have never forgotten the terror I felt seeing a child go into anaphylaxis and having to stab them with a needle and call 911. So I just screw around with that stuff, even if it's inconvenient for me. I'll never forget that incident as long as I live.


----------



## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

I am not particularly careful about nuts unless I know we are around a nut allergic child.We don't know anyone with a severe nut allergy. Our preschool is not nut-free. Our public K next year is not nut-free. There are one or two children with mild nut reactions and they eat lunch at a separate table with kids that don't have nuts in their lunch that day. The school doesn't use peanuts in snacks it serves but it does often have almond butter with an alternative. There are one or two kids with a lot of allergies of various degrees and they just bring their own snack. We don't send it but pb&j is a super popular lunch at the school.

Peanut-free is really annoying but that doesn't mean I would complain or send anything that didn't comply. And it doesn't mean I am not sympathetic. It just doesn't really effect our lives.


----------



## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

Dd has always been homeschooled and we didn't frequent public playgrounds a lot when she was younger so it wasn't much of an issue. No one we were hanging out with had a nut allergy.

I don't go out and about in public carrying around nuts or nut products but I suppose we may have some residue from eating these things at home.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SimonMom*
> 
> honestly it doesn't effect what/how i feed my kids nuts at all unless there's a child with nut allergies in class and i'm bringing in something for the whole class. then of course i'm super careful.


This. Unless I know my child will be in contact with a child with nut allergies, I wouldn't even give it a thought.

I'd never send treats to school that contained nuts...but, I wouldn't withold it from her lunch box.

We still eat at Texas Road house, and I shop after eating a whole bucket of peanuts... I've never thought much about the nut dust on my hands after eating there.


----------



## cyclamen (Jul 10, 2005)

I did not give it much thought, until recently. But then I learned that one of my DD's friends has a peanut allergy and an epi-pen. I just started babysitting her little brother and her occasionally, and I decided that I just wouldn't even have any nut products in the house because I just feel safer doing that. We are not big consumers of nuts, but I will grab sunbutter instead of peanut butter from now on.


----------



## elus0814 (Sep 21, 2009)

Right now we don't take any type of precautions at all. Obviously if they had peanut butter smeared all over their hands their hands would be washed before we went out. The school the older kids attend is private and does not admit children with any type of severe allergy so we don't worry about it there.

We live next door to a playground and I've never thought about the kids going out to play with nut dust or residue on them. Again if their hands/face/clothes are dirty they need to be washed or changed. We live on a military base so I guess I just assume if a child in our neighborhood of 70 houses had a severe allergy they would let everyone know or post signs at the playground.

When our oldest attended a ballet class with a child who had a peanut allergy we didn't serve anything with peanuts that day, didn't bring peanut containing snacks for the younger kids to eat while we waited during the class, and changed clothes/washed hands and faces the one time one of the kids got into some peanut butter crackers the same day as the class.


----------



## mkksmom (Mar 24, 2008)

We are allowed to send peanut butter/nuts to school for lunch but not to be eaten in the classroom. However, I will not send my child to school with nuts. She prefers sunbutter, so that's easy. 2 of her friends are allergic to nuts, and my own dd was diagnosed with an almond allergy. We had to strictly avoid nuts for a year until she had a food challenge, which she thankfully passed. If she has almonds, I have her wash her hands. She doesn't eat peanut butter at all, but if she did, I'd have her wash her face as well. It's' not worth the risk of hurting someone else.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

My kids go to a small school, and currently there aren't any kids at the school with peanut/nut allergies. We are allowed to send in peanut butter sandwiches and all that, but they have made it clear that the minute a kid enrolls with with allergies, the policy could change over night.

I think that in your park example, there's no point in being over careful. Playground equipment is constantly touched by kids who pick their noses and don't wash their hand well after pottying. It's pretty gross if you think about it. But between the occasional rainstorm and the sun doing it's best to bake things off, we all consider it "clean enough." I wouldn't let my kids run around with food, mostly because after touching the equipment I thought they should WASH their hands before they eat.


----------



## Ragana (Oct 15, 2002)

We eat nuts normally unless specifically told not to bring them and follow regular hygiene practices (like washing off smears of PB). We do have nut-allergic kids both at school and at a Saturday activity, but neither place is entirely nut-free. If told about a situation where we will be in contact with an allergic child, we comply with whatever restrictions are required. We have very good friends and family members with celiac and have seen a child have to advocate for her own health at a very young age, so we do try to be mindful and helpful where possible.

That said, I wonder about the effectiveness of the total nut-free practice. For example, the other day my DD brought leftover pad thai to school for lunch - an allergic person could have potentially had an anaphylactic reaction to either the peanuts, the shrimp or the egg in it, but only the peanuts would be banned from school? Flowers are still planted outside school even though some people have anaphylactic reactions to bee stings. Since no location can be guaranteed 100% free of anything, perhaps more effort should go into education, preventive procedures (I can definitely see the need for peanut-free tables at lunch, and we know kids with health IEPs with certain other precautionary measures like the whole class having to wash hands at certain times), emergency measures? I do not have an allergic child, though, and those who do may feel completely differently.


----------



## MrsGregory (Dec 21, 2011)

Browsed the thread.

My little one isn't eating peanut butter yet, but husband and I actually discussed (because it had come up on the television) the possibility that one of her classmates and possibly one of her dear friends in the future may have a severe nut allergy.

We discussed it while I was happily working on a spoon of peanut butter.

I've never been careful with my nut residues. If the she-tyrant brings home a friend that needs an epi-pen if nut dust blows on them, I'm going to be in for one heck of a learning experience.

It's not the same, but I imagine that when we're exposed to multiple children and the possibility exists that someone might have an allergy, I'll treat the situation the same way I behave when I'm feeding something I prepared to a group of people; I either know who abstains from what, or I announce the potentially taboo ingredients. For example, when I make meatballs and I say, to the group: "I made meatballs. They have pork in them." and this allows anyone in the group who keeps halal, kosher or eats vegetarian to skip the meatballs without a whole big to-do.

But I clearly need to educate myself on which foods are most commonly highly allergenic. My family has no food allergies so I have no idea what kinds of things people are allergic to. Except nuts, of course I'm aware of that.


----------



## Alphaghetti (May 26, 2005)

We eat a lot of nuts and peanut butter. We have moved around a fair bit, and not once have my children been allowed to bring any kind of peanut product into any school that they've attended. I don't think about it regularly, but I suppose that I am so used to being nut free with lunches and school snacks that I think about it if I am packing anything to take to the park. Also, as others have posted, my kids will wash their faces and hands after eating and before going out. I assume that cuts down on most of the contact issues.


----------



## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

We don't take any precautions. At my dd's school they have a separate table for kids who eat pb&j but even there that is enough of a precaution. We have rarely encountered a place that asked for parents to send in nut free lunches and it really never occurred to me to worry about peanut residue just as I don't expect people to worry about their cat dander when I am out and about.


----------



## Skippy918 (Jul 15, 2008)

No precautions taken here unless a friend informs us that their child has allergies. My kids' daycare is peanut free so I just avoid sending those products in.


----------



## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

We do not consume peanuts or peanut products in public. If it is eaten at home then I wash up all the kids, (face and hands) before leaving the house. I had two friends with severely peanut allergic children IRL and several more online friends, they lived in constant fear of peanuts. It gave me a healthy fear of what my actions and my feeding of my children can do to another family. One of the boys ended up in the hospital several times as a toddler after encountering accidental peanuts while out and about. It go to the point where the mom felt that they could not leave the house, even a day at the outdoor playground, could have him running into a roaming 2 year with a PB and J sandwich in one hand while going down the slide. To me, looking in at their life, it seemed like a lonely prison to be in because they could not control others.

We have had two peanut allergic children at our small private school. One was more severe then the other where anything made for the class had to be labeled peanut free, the other just could just not ingest peanuts. I feel very fortunate that while my DD2 has significant allergies that trigger her asthma, it is all animal, environmental allergies. While I still can not control it, it is not quite like a peanut allergy where you need an epipen.


----------



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Chiming in as the parent of a severely food-allergic child.

My child is allergic to peanuts and tree nuts as well as eggs and fish and sesame and a whole host of other foods, but she is most severely allergic to wheat. She is anaphylactic, contact allergic, airway allergic.

Life for us means being hyper-vigilant ALL THE TIME. If dd's friend has a bag of goldfish, they can't sit next to each other on the bus. At the playground, she knows to stay away from kids who are eating (there are always a ton), and she knows she needs to ask her friends to wipe their hands if they want to share toys or something. She cannot eat restaurant food at all, ever, but if we take her with us to a restaurant, we wipe down her seat and table area first. I never order sandwiches or burgers or things that are eaten with the hands, so they I can make sure my hands stay clean to help her with her meal. If we notice a kid eating a bagel or something before dance class, I will try to get the kid a wipe; if I'm not able to intervene, dd needs to remember that she can't hold that girl's hand in class. We take public transportation to and from school. Don't even get me started on what people eat in crowded buses and subways. She has to clean her hands before she puts anything in her mouth. If dh or I or her grandparents eat wheat, we need to wash our hands and wipe our mouths before we touch or kiss her. And what I'm describing here is really just the tip of the iceberg.

I appreciate it when strangers don't bring nuts to the park and when they wipe their children's hands after they eat. But I don't expect it. Nor does avoiding peanuts in public necessarily mean that you are keeping other kids safe (peanut butter and goldfish crackers are both dangerous to my kid, but the crackers are much more so). Personally, we try to be mindful in public. If dd wants a snack at the park, she sits on a bench and I wipe her hands afterward. It's safer for her, but it's also safer for the kid who's allergic to corn or dairy or whatever she's eating. Cleaning your kids after they eat (washing their hands or wiping hands and face with WetOnes) and trying to keep food in places where food is expected (e.g., at the picnic table and not on the slide) are FAR more important steps to take, I think, than not eating nuts in public.

However, food has become ubiquitous in American society. I expect that allergens will be everywhere, because they are.


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Cleaning your kids after they eat (washing their hands or wiping hands and face with WetOnes) and trying to keep food in places where food is expected (e.g., at the picnic table and not on the slide) are FAR more important steps to take


it's a bit meaningless when you see a squirrel caring a nut on piece of playground equipment and watching them drop it and pick it back up and crack it open

personally I do not use wetones and am far more concerned about the over use of chemical products on children

I delt with a neighbor boy (age 4 to 13 at the time), 25 years ago when NO one had peanut issues- he was allergic to *everything* and only ate rice and turkey with water for years, could use his own pen at age 5- he grew out of all but the peanuts........as a child things were really easy, as an adult he as found kissing to be a real problem! contact even hours later is a problem for him- doesn't stop with children at playgrounds


----------



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> it's a bit meaningless when you see a squirrel caring a nut on piece of playground equipment and watching them drop it and pick it back up and crack it open
> 
> ...


No, it's not meaningless. The more parents keep food away from play equipment--ALL food, not just nuts--the safer it is for food-allergic children. Children leave far more food residue on playground equipment than squirrels. Perfectly clean spaces are an impossibility; no one understands that more than I. (Did you even read my post? I said that playgrounds are only a tiny fraction of what I deal with on a daily basis AND I said that totally clean public spaces are an impossibility.)

But the OP wanted to know what people do and I can tell you as the parent of a severely food-allergic kid that cleaning your kids and keeping food away from non-food areas are the most important things that you can do. Splash a little water on your kids' hands and dry with a paper towel if you don't want to use WetOnes.

I wish I had the luxury not to use wet wipes, because I'm not thrilled with the chemicals either, but unfortunately I have to be a little more concerned about my kid dying than I am about what's in the wipes.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NYCVeg*
> 
> But the OP wanted to know what people do and I can tell you as the parent of a severely food-allergic kid that cleaning your kids and keeping food away from non-food areas are the most important things that you can do. Splash a little water on your kids' hands and dry with a paper towel if you don't want to use WetOnes.


I really get what you are saying. I think it is gross when kids run around with food at parks any way -- eating with dirty hands and dropping their food and picking it back up. I'm not sure what the big deal is about stopping playing long enough to eat.

It's not that big of a deal to wipe kids off before they eat. Wiping them off again afterwards to make the world a little safer for some one else's child seems like a small thing to ask.

I never really thought about it before, but now that I have, I can't see just blowing off the information. If you have no way of cleaning your child's hands, why are they eating anyway? What's the big deal about repeating what you did before the meal right after the meal?

And if you don't bother to clean your child's hands before they eat, ick.


----------



## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


> And if you don't bother to clean your child's hands before they eat, ick.


Hmmm. The only time i really suggest hand washing before eating is if my kids have actual dirt or crud on their hands, like if they were digging around in the sandbox or something like that. But if they were playing at a playground and i called them over for a snack? Nope, it wouldnt even cross my mind unless there was visible dirt on their hands (and only because dirt doesnt seem yummy.) I dont generally wash my hands before eating either unless there are special circumstances (going out to eat right after picking through stuff at the thrift store or used bookstore, i usually feel kinda grimy after that).....and all of us are usually pretty healthy.

Thats not to say we dont wash our hands, i def. encourage it after using the bathroom for instance....but before snacktime at the park? No, and it would never occur to me that would be "icky".


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

If you don't use wet-ones then perhaps a damp washcloth in a plastic baggie? This is what my ex usually does and it works really well. (sorry, can't quote easily from my phone)


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Hmmm. The only time i really suggest hand washing before eating is if my kids have actual dirt or crud on their hands, like if they were digging around in the sandbox or something like that. But if they were playing at a playground and i called them over for a snack? Nope, it wouldnt even cross my mind unless there was visible dirt on their hands (and only because dirt doesnt seem yummy.) I dont generally wash my hands before eating either unless there are special circumstances (going out to eat right after picking through stuff at the thrift store or used bookstore, i usually feel kinda grimy after that).....and all of us are usually pretty healthy.
> 
> Thats not to say we dont wash our hands, i def. encourage it after using the bathroom for instance....but before snacktime at the park? No, and it would never occur to me that would be "icky".


me either!

there are sooooooooo many place at a playground/park, etc and no way would I do so

*this world was not meant to be sterile*, I do not want it nor feel it is healthy-an immune systems was designed to work, I want my child to have the chance, it seems to be getting smaller, but I still want dirt and exposures, that does include known allergens

I don't buy this- people have been eating in park, regardless if you don't allow food near the equipment- it is meaningless! The "stick" the child with a peanut-butter sandwich had is a great toy and most times they go for that to- get what I mean?

I don't know who touched what prior to me being there anymore than I know who touched the organic fruit at a local co-op- so to push this-IMO is just like saying "taking one for the heard" - NO I do not want my child in a sterile environment, I do not feel it is healthy for my child all the uses of "wet-one" and hand sanitizers, does my child count or only those with allergies? BTW- we avoid (and have no alleges) inside playgrounds because of this- I don't want my child exposed to the cleaning chemicals (OVERKILL- IMO!!) and all the people cleaning their children's hands with sanitizers.

IF you knowing *know* that is different (person coming to your house, bringing an item, etc), to expect others to conform-NO.

You can not protect every situation and expecting others to IMO is not where your focus should be- this "heard" is not the majority.

Quote:


> No, it's not meaningless. The more parents keep food away from play equipment--ALL food, not just nuts--the safer it is for food-allergic children. Children leave far more food residue on playground equipment than squirrels. Perfectly clean spaces are an impossibility; no one understands that more than I. (Did you even read my post? I said that playgrounds are only a tiny fraction of what I deal with on a daily basis AND I said that totally clean public spaces are an impossibility.)


You have lots of expectation of others and I see no regard for my child's immune system -why are you trying to control others?

Bees are a allergen to some- guess that is a good thing they are dying off.


----------



## yellow73 (Oct 17, 2011)

I grew up with a sibling with severe peanut allergies. We didn't make peanut butter cookies in the house because my sister could smell it and start to have breathing problems. We had peanut butter for sandwhiches but would go outside to eat them usually if she was home and if you want peanut butter and jelly you had to put the knife in the jelly first so you wouldn't contaminate it. Other than that, it was mainly the eating out that was the problem, with food being accidently contaminated. Twice we had to take her to the ER after eating out. We'd have to make speical arrangements if we flew to make sure there were no peanuts given out on the plane. We were homeschooled, so didn't have the school issue, but all our friends knew and were careful not to share food with peanuts. I don't think I'd be freaking out that much about what my kids are eating before they see friends. Unless you can see it on the clothes or faces/hands I think you are probably fine.

I've been paranoid with my own kids (who do have some egg/milk issues) and waited till they were well over two to let them try something with peanut, and they are fine. I now have a much younger brother who has the nut allergy as well. It's a scary thing, but at least now there are epi-pens parents carry around, etc.


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

I would also no sooner go up to the grandfather pushing a swing and ask if he washed his hands or would.

I think wanting people to do so is far beyond what is expectable in a park or anyplace.

I certainly hope we don't see the day we are asked not to eat in public places because of fear. You have just as many potential food allergies issues in almost every place regardless if you see food or not.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> I really get what you are saying. I think it is gross when kids run around with food at parks any way -- eating with dirty hands and dropping their food and picking it back up. I'm not sure what the big deal is about stopping playing long enough to eat.


Some kids eat better while on the move or literally won't sit still to eat... especially when there's a playground a few feet away. I have friends that get very anxious if their kid hasn't eaten much and would rather see their kids eat while playing than not eat at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *queenjane*
> 
> Hmmm. The only time i really suggest hand washing before eating is if my kids have actual dirt or crud on their hands, like if they were digging around in the sandbox or something like that. But if they were playing at a playground and i called them over for a snack? Nope, it wouldnt even cross my mind unless there was visible dirt on their hands (and only because dirt doesnt seem yummy.) I dont generally wash my hands before eating either unless there are special circumstances (going out to eat right after picking through stuff at the thrift store or used bookstore, i usually feel kinda grimy after that).....and all of us are usually pretty healthy.
> 
> Thats not to say we dont wash our hands, i def. encourage it after using the bathroom for instance....but before snacktime at the park? No, and it would never occur to me that would be "icky".


This is us, too. We never wash our hands at the park because there's usually not a bathroom nearby and I just don't see the big deal about a bit of dirt -- the research I've seen has actually suggested it may even be beneficial. DS is one of the healthiest kids I know so I certainly don't think it's been a detriment to him! We wash hands after using the bathroom or after touching something really gross/sticky/germy/whatever but not just as a routine part of eating.

I would definitely do whatever I needed to do to accommodate a friend or acquaintance with food allergies (whether mild or severe). I have moderate allergies myself and I know that sense of panic in high-risk situations, though I can't pretend to fully understand the daily life of someone with really severe allergies like NYCVeg deals with. However, I've never met anyone in real life with allergies that severe, and I can't go around structuring my life on the off chance I might come across someone... no more than I can prepare for various other harmful but uncommon scenarios. Plus, I know my child, I know that he spends more time clinging to me than anything else, he keeps his distance from kids he doesn't know (and even kids he does) so I'm not particularly concerned about him running up to a kid at the park and exposing him/her to deadly allergens.

I do make sure to ask around about allergies before pulling a highly-allergenic food out of my bag around a group of strangers, and avoid bringing peanuts to places like the children's museum even though they are not a nut-free facility.


----------



## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

I feel for you, NYCveg. My neighbor has a severe peanut allergy. His mother goes to great lengths to ensure his safety but his allergy is so life-threatening, I can't imagine they eat out. He cannot eat nuts or things produced in a nut processing place. His allergiest has had 10 kids with allergies as severe as his and 6 of those kids are dead. Living next door to him, I was sure to ask exactly about his allergy. He is in 7th grade now so he doesn't really have the "hands in mouth after playground" thing. The school is not nut-free but the summer camp they attend is due to his mother's dilligence.

His allergy is a disability and I get tired of people grumbling about having the camp nut-free or whatever. Don't you think his mother would love to not have to think about this at all? Don't you think his mother would love not to have to train everyone he know in epi-pen use? This isn't an attention thing. Should the boy just stay at home forever?

I admire her courage to be the "pain in the ass" so her son can live his life.


----------



## Ragana (Oct 15, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NYCVeg*
> Cleaning your kids after they eat (washing their hands or wiping hands and face with WetOnes) and trying to keep food in places where food is expected (e.g., at the picnic table and not on the slide) are FAR more important steps to take, I think, than not eating nuts in public.


Honestly, I thinking cleaning up with whatever your cleaning medium of choice is and keeping food to food-eating locations are pretty much acts of common courtesy.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Youngfrankenstein*
> 
> I feel for you, NYCveg. My neighbor has a severe peanut allergy. His mother goes to great lengths to ensure his safety but his allergy is so life-threatening, I can't imagine they eat out. He cannot eat nuts or things produced in a nut processing place. His allergiest has had 10 kids with allergies as severe as his and 6 of those kids are dead. Living next door to him, I was sure to ask exactly about his allergy. He is in 7th grade now so he doesn't really have the "hands in mouth after playground" thing. The school is not nut-free but the summer camp they attend is due to his mother's dilligence.
> 
> ...


I worked at a summer camp when i was in college, and there were 2 weeks every summer that we prepared food special for a kid with severe severe allergies. He also had a peanut allergy, so ALL peanut butter was put away, everything disinfected, staff was told to remove peanut butter from their cabins (to be stored in another place for those 2 weeks), and it was hard but do-able. No one suffered. I do know that because of the great lengths we took to keep this child safe we asked that all peanut allergic children come to camp during one of those 2 weeks if they were going to come at all (unless it was not severe and contact would not cause problems, and the child was old enough to self monitor to some extent).


----------



## Janetdavid (May 18, 2012)

Regarding my son who is severely anaphylactic to peanuts, milk, soy, ALL MEATS, legumes, oat, lobster, peaches - the list goes on and on. He can only eat, even now at 11, a few fruits and vegetables, wheat, rice and barley. He has been on a prescribed supplement called neocate since he was 6 months old. He has never had Ice cream, a hot dog or eaten in a restaurant. Mae make all his food homemade at home.

Being a parent of a child who has such allergies and knowing that he is so severely allergic to all, keeps you on edge every minute of every day. Preperaring for him to go to school was the hardest part, we couldn't control what went on there. For the first 3 years of school we went to have lunch with him every day so we could ensure no contact was made. We quit our jobs and started our own cleaning service so we could be with him every day. Since then, schools have progressed peanut is no longer an issue, it has been banned from our school. But what really surprises me is the way parents of unallergic children act! They argue that peanut butter is what their kids eat each day, that our kids should be more careful, they continue to send products with peanuts regardless of the rules. To me, that's like telling your child it's ok to bring a knife to school. They will both have the end result, a child could die.

To All the parents of allergic children who are in cities that still allow peanut products in schools and on buses, don't give up!


----------



## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Janetdavid*
> 
> . But what really surprises me is the way parents of unallergic children act! They argue that peanut butter is what their kids eat each day, that our kids should be more careful*, they continue to send products with peanuts regardless of the rules. To me, that's like telling your child it's ok to bring a knife to school.* They will both have the end result, a child could die.
> To All the parents of allergic children who are in cities that still allow peanut products in schools and on buses, don't give up!


I don't think anyone here is saying it's okay to break those rules. I just think they're saying they'll cross that bridge when they come to it. I don't think all things should be nut-free until there is a need.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

They do wash their hands after they eat, and I wipe the little one's face (she's the one who likes peanut butter.) But she often gets food in her hair, and I don't wash her hair, and she often gets food on her clohtes, and I don't change her clothes. And the older one is probably covered in peanut dust on a regular basis, as a favorite snack of hers is peanuts in the shell.

If you aren't allergic, nuts are a very healthy food, and I don't want to keep them from eating nuts, but I wonder how far I should go if I take them to the park after having peanut butter. We don't eat at the park very often so that aspect hadn't occurred to me.

When the older one was in preschool, there was a kid there with a bad peanut allergy, and I wouldn't let her have anything peanut related until after she was in school each day. So no peanut butter on toast for breakfast, for instance.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Janetdavid*
> 
> Being a parent of a child who has such allergies and knowing that he is so severely allergic to all, keeps you on edge every minute of every day. Preperaring for him to go to school was the hardest part, we couldn't control what went on there. For the first 3 years of school we went to have lunch with him every day so we could ensure no contact was made. We quit our jobs and started our own cleaning service so we could be with him every day. Since then, schools have progressed peanut is no longer an issue, it has been banned from our school. *But what really surprises me is the way parents of unallergic children act! They argue that peanut butter is what their kids eat each day, that our kids should be more careful, they continue to send products with peanuts regardless of the rules.* To me, that's like telling your child it's ok to bring a knife to school. They will both have the end result, a child could die.
> 
> To All the parents of allergic children who are in cities that still allow peanut products in schools and on buses, don't give up!


I'm sorry that has been your experience. I would never send my ds to school with peanut butter, when he wants PB&J sandwiches for lunch we buy SoyNut Butter (which is completely nut-free and made in a nut free facility according to the label). He calls it PB&J, but its not peanut butter.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Youngfrankenstein*
> 
> His allergy is a disability and I get tired of people grumbling about having the camp nut-free or whatever. Don't you think his mother would love to not have to think about this at all? Don't you think his mother would love not to have to train everyone he know in epi-pen use? This isn't an attention thing. Should the boy just stay at home forever?
> 
> I admire her courage to be the "pain in the ass" so her son can live his life.


I agree. Food allergies aren't an issue for my family, and honestly, I love the ease of currently being able to toss a PB&J in my kids lunch.

However, the very minor concessions asked of those of us for whom it isn't an issue to save another child from a life threatening emergency seem, well, minor.

One parents fear that their child isn't eating enough compared to another child having a life threatening emergency? Really?


----------



## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

*


----------



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> You have lots of expectation of others and I see no regard for my child's immune system -why are you trying to control others?


I kind of can't believe I'm having this conversation. I have said multiple times that I have NO expectations of others. I take care of my kid and do my best to keep her safe. THE OP ASKED WHAT SHE COULD DO TO KEEP FOOD ALLERGIC KIDS SAFE. I responded that cleaning your kids and keeping food in designated areas is more important than not bringing the allergens altogether. I stick by that.

I'm out of this thread.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NYCVeg*
> 
> I kind of can't believe I'm having this conversation. I have said multiple times that I have NO expectations of others. I take care of my kid and do my best to keep her safe. THE OP ASKED WHAT SHE COULD DO TO KEEP FOOD ALLERGIC KIDS SAFE. I responded that cleaning your kids and keeping food in designated areas is more important than not bringing the allergens altogether. I stick by that.
> 
> I'm out of this thread.


I appreciate your input, FWIW. I try to keep baby wipes on me for wiping hands and such, but sometimes I forget. It's good (for me anyway) to know what is most important. And quite frankly, my kids immune system is great, and washing his sticky fingers a few times a day isn't going to hurt it. I don't know why serenbat got upset with your post, please don't take it personally.


----------



## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

My kids don't have food allergies, but we know children who suffer with them. When they were elementary school age, I did not send peanut butter sandwiches or nut products for lunch at school or camp. When I was on school council and responsible for organizing snacks for events, I always ensured that they were nut-free (along with respecting religious requirements). I'm in the general habit of not taking nut products from home into public spaces, but I don't check the ingredient list of everything (eg. cookies, granola bars etc.) so I'm sure that it's happened.

Since middle school age or even younger, the kids often packed their own lunches and snacks, and they are much less careful, so they've probably taken nut products on their own. Not to school or camp, since they know the nut-free rules at those places, but for other outings - eg. picnics with their friends in the park.

Also, if we purchased something eg. nut-coated ice-cream treats or candy bars while we were out, I admit that I didn't take special precautions at playgrounds or other public spaces, eg. the mall or museums etc.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> One parents fear that their child isn't eating enough compared to another child having a life threatening emergency? Really?


Uhhh for some kids, not eating enough IS a life-threatening emergency.


----------



## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> Uhhh for some kids, not eating enough IS a life-threatening emergency.


 Oh for pete's sake. Yes, over time, if a child is starving themselves or is unable to derive enough nourishment from what they eat (it's not always a picky eater/small group of foods thing, lots of absorbtion/digestion stuff out there too). For anaphylaxis, that's damn near instantaneous, you don't have an hour or two (or a couple of days) to balance it out and get more food into the child or (let's hope, if we're talking advanced starvation here) get access to medical feeding care--we're talking death in minutes without emergency intervention. If a child is so close to death from lack of food unless their mom can give them peanut butter/shrimp/beets/whatever right at that moment, can we at least hope that they also wouldn't be at school or on the playground, where they're expending all that energy (and would they be able to in the first place, should their life be hanging in the balance as to whether they eat this one snack at this very moment in time right in that place)? If they're NOT hanging in the balance, then there's time to come up with...a plan. Probably a good idea to have anyway, in the case of ANY sort of feeding special needs or restricted diet!

I understand that some people cannot stand to have any sort of rules or behavior "imposed" on them (hey, I had some people almost kill a child in my care thanks to that outlook!) but...sheesh.


----------



## RubThyNeighbor (Oct 31, 2009)

We don't even think about it when going out in the gen public

Our preschool is nut free.

Its reall hard for us to pay that much attention in a place that isnt nut free and imo it should fall under responsibility of parents of allergic kids to keep their kids as safe as they can.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
> 
> Oh for pete's sake. Yes, over time, if a child is starving themselves or is unable to derive enough nourishment from what they eat (it's not always a picky eater/small group of foods thing, lots of absorbtion/digestion stuff out there too). For anaphylaxis, that's damn near instantaneous, you don't have an hour or two (or a couple of days) to balance it out and get more food into the child or (let's hope, if we're talking advanced starvation here) get access to medical feeding care--we're talking death in minutes without emergency intervention. If a child is so close to death from lack of food unless their mom can give them peanut butter/shrimp/beets/whatever right at that moment, can we at least hope that they also wouldn't be at school or on the playground, where they're expending all that energy (and would they be able to in the first place, should their life be hanging in the balance as to whether they eat this one snack at this very moment in time right in that place)? If they're NOT hanging in the balance, then there's time to come up with...a plan. Probably a good idea to have anyway, in the case of ANY sort of feeding special needs or restricted diet!


I wasn't really talking about malnourishment. I am personally affected by this but don't want to get into it here. Anyway, I'm bowing out of the conversation, apparently I can't explain what I'm trying to say properly and things are being taken out of context. I swear I'm not trying to do put anyone in danger and I'm not inconsiderate and careless.


----------



## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Good question, OP. We don't have any known nut/food allergies in our family, but we know several kids that do, so it has been helpful in making us a little more diligent than we normally would be. DD has been in nut-free schools since the outset, and as a result, we don't really buy peanut butter and stuff like that just because we don't really have use for it. We are big nut eaters at home (cashews, almonds, pastachios), but DD tends to eat less of it than DH and I. One hard rule that I've had from the outset: no kids in the house until we've spoken with the parents about potential allergies. I even do this because of our cat (as one of DD's friend's brings a spray in case the cat's dander gives her an allergy/asthma attack). We've never had a problem, though.

I tend to err on the side of being as cautious as reasonably possible. I don't have food allergies, but environmental factors such as other animals, perfumes, perfumed products, etc. sometimes can unexpectedly bring on an asthma attack (severe at times), and although not life threatening, I do feel like karma or some other weird rule of cards requires me to be reasonably cautious about known or potential dangers. Maybe it's the lawyer in me too.

My take on it is to exercise reasonableness. Where the danger or potential danger is more likely, exercise extra caution. It could be as simple as just leaving nuts at home and taking reasonable steps to wash up messy faces and fingers before going into public. Not a huge burden, in my opinion.

Besides, who takes food to the park? I thought that was what Mr. Softy was for!


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Diabetes is one condition that I can think of where a child or adult may need food NOW so as to ward off an emergency, particularly if it is type 2. Usually it is well managed however, so isn't on many people's radar, but I know that diabetics often carry food everywhere so that they can eat as soon as certain symptoms show up. When I worked as a lifeguard we had glucose tablets available for anyone who needed them due to diabetes, we also had juice boxes around, and were instructed to give them to anyone who complained of certain symptoms, or to anyone who stated they were diabetic and needed sugar.


----------



## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> If you don't use wet-ones then perhaps a damp washcloth in a plastic baggie? This is what my ex usually does and it works really well. (sorry, can't quote easily from my phone)


That is genius. Why did I never think of that before? We also pack a little washcloth that the kids use as napkins but I never thought to pack a wet one for messy things. They would love it, especially my two year old who doesn't like messy hands.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> Diabetes is one condition that I can think of where a child or adult may need food NOW so as to ward off an emergency, particularly if it is type 2. Usually it is well managed however, so isn't on many people's radar, but I know that diabetics often carry food everywhere so that they can eat as soon as certain symptoms show up..


Are you implying that there are preschoolers with type 2 Diabetes who need to eat PB&J while climbing on playground equipment in order to live? Seriously? I think if parents practiced better eating habits with their children there would be fewer people with type 2 diabetes. I've watched children climb around while eating complete junk -- and dropping it and picking it up and keep eating. I just don't buy that it is healthy for anyone.

In 15 years of parenting, most of it involved with other families with special needs kids, I have meet exactly 2 kids for whom not eating enough was a medical problem. Two. They both had special needs. One couldn't climb on anything as a small child. Both have sweet moms. Neither of their moms would argue their kids' need to eat -- which can happen anywhere -- needs to happen at a time or place that is potential harmful to another child.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Um...no? I was just responding to Tigerchild's post that said that the only only time EVER that a child would potentially DIE from not eating was after months of near starvation. Thats it. I didn't even mention PB in my post, or allergies, just a known condition that has *nothing* to do with starvation where someone might need food immediately. I didn't say diabetics are required to smear allergic children with peanut butter to survive.

And I really don't think my post was offensive. Why take it so personally?

ETA - I also wonder if anaphylactic (sp?) food allergies are really that much more common than diabetes in children. Maybe they are, but I don't know anyone who is deathly allergic to anything, although its possible that I just don't know about a childs allergy issues even though I know them.


----------



## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Off topic, but I just think it was funny that as I was reading this thread, an add is displaying at the right-hand corner of my screen which reads: "Are you normal, *nuts* or natural?"


----------



## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

When I have kids in school, we follow the rules about nuts (usually there is a ban as someone is usually allergic to them). It is not that hard to do, and I have picky eaters.

A good friend of my sons is allergic to peanuts. We do not eat any nut products when we are around him, and I try to do a quick clean up if he is over (make sure the counters do not have a peanut butter smear on them - that sort of thing). Thankfully, he was and is quite good about staying away from nuts - for years he was less good about carrying his epi-pen! He is the reason we have Benadryl in the house. Putting a face to an issue has really helped me see that these are actual children we are dealing with - not just words on a webpage or statistics.

If we are going somewhere, I try to remind my youngest to wash her hands. She often eats PB sandwiches before we go somewhere.

Lastly, I do not bring items to bake sales/potlucks with nuts in them. I was at an event once where the child had to leave due to nut products in the cookies (it was a cookie exchange). I felt bad for the family. Inclusion is a good thing - so I try to make dishes most people can eat, or at least don't cause one to flee the room.


----------



## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> Um...no? I was just responding to Tigerchild's post that said that the only only time EVER that a child would potentially DIE from not eating was after months of near starvation. Thats it. I didn't even mention PB in my post, or allergies, just a known condition that has *nothing* to do with starvation where someone might need food immediately. I didn't say diabetics are required to smear allergic children with peanut butter to survive.
> 
> ...


I did not say only time EVER. I said, in the context of this conversation, where we're talking about children either bringing a specific nut item to school to eat or noshing while running around on the playground, I did not think that there was a situation where a child was going to die if they didn't eat their nutty food where there wasn't a better substitute. I'm familiar with type 1 diabetes, I have cared for children with it and grew up with family members who had it. We never gave them a shot of peanut buttter or shrimp--as others have mentioned, we carried juice/hard candy/ect. Don't know if the guidelines have changed all that much, but I'm going to guess that almost nobody is going to die if they cannot have a specific allergenic food for a couple of hours. I am also quite familiar with children who have sensory eating disorders and other issues--but those were extreme, and involved medical interventions that did not mean they had to wander around the playground with a PB sandwich in hand. While I'm sure the number of picky eaters or very small acceptance eaters (I have one of those) is far greater than kids with anaphylaxis reactions, again--I also believe it's a bigger deal to the child who will have their airway shut down vs. the one who is going to have to eat something else while on the playground or wait an hour.

The one liner comment in the broader conversation that I was responding to was pretty snarky. You don't see that, really?


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> I don't know why serenbat got upset with your post,


ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Quote:


> If we notice a kid eating a bagel or something before dance class, *I will try to get the kid a wipe;*


the whole notion that it is expectable to go after another person's child with a chemical wipe and some how thing this OK.... and in the greater picture who was in the dance class prior and had that peanut butter sandwich and rubbed their hand on the barre without washing?

AND-at the park today (and must be something in our area because all the parks have it) picnic tables right by the playground - it is unreasonable -IMO for a mother to wipe and wipe and wipe and wipe a child's hands, today I did see a child eating a sandwich (who knows what it was) but the child was small and there was no reason that child had to stay put with the last bite and could not get up (as he did) and run to the slide with half a sandwich- expecting others to conform and in this case it would according to NYC Veg not been right for this child to go to the slide and not keep that food at the designated area

going after others (in public in a non-designated "zone"- I certainly see schools but beyond that NO and even there we are really only so far as I know, talking about nuts, not everything else) is where I feel this is just way to excessive given the greater picture and all the potential threats

it seems unrealistic and down right rude- I would never think to expose another child to a wipe (chemicals) for the sake of another- if you are that afraid, put gloves on your child, not go after others


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Wow. So you would be perfectly OK with your child potentially being the cause of a deadly allergic reaction, than to some small contact with chemicals? I mean really, how many horrific chemicals could possibly be in one little wipe? Your child is exposed to more chemicals than that just going out in public because most public places use bleach to clean. Would you be ok with a parent asking your child to wash their hands with *gasp* soap and water? What if the teacher made it a habit at the start of class for everyone to wash their hands? Or is soap going to potentially kill your child?


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

the science isn't there for the wipes - http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2004/05_08b_04.html

and NO as a perfect stranger in a public setting, and at dance class, etc- NO- you still are not really protecting the child with the allergies unless you clean *all* the surfaces, so NO you are not looking at the over all picture-you are choosing one child over another and the poster clearly stated using a *"wipe"* not asking that child for soap and water (and frankly she has NO WAY OF KNOWING who had what prior to walking in the dance class)- you are picking out one child solely because you saw them, you didn't just see the mother who ate peanuts in the trail mix and touched her child's hand- so NO, you are not really protecting the child with the allergies

like I stated in the other examples, who touched what prior to that child? unless you are cleaning each and every item you have no REAL way of making sure instead you are pinning one against another

frankly I have a real problem with the overuse of cleaning chemicals and feel this need to clean (not just hands) is causing far more problems to ALL children and this need for this clean environment is perpetuated by those with allergies at the risk to others

handing someone a "wipe" is out of line (what I was replying to) complete disregard for other's healthy - IMO


----------



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Oh, brother. I don't just wipe the kid. I ask the parent if it's okay.









Dd is actually one of two children in her dance class who is contact allergic/anaphylactic to wheat. The other parents have been really wonderful and understanding. I've been really lucky, both in school and extracurriculars, to deal with other parents who appreciate what it's like to have a child with life-threatening allergies and who are extremely considerate about trying to keep my child (and other allergic children) safe so that they can participate in regular, childhood activities.


----------



## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Old Fogey warning: Why is it people eat everywhere these days? I was at a science museum and people were wandering around the exhibits with fried chicken and there was popcorn strewn throughout the entire place. I'm very grateful ds doesn't have major allergies and think it's really the least people can do to not sprinkle and smear food wherever they go.


----------



## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

SuperSingleMama-

I have removed your previous post in this forum. Per the UA: Mothering.com members are required to treat one other with respect and courtesy at all times.

Please feel free to debate the content of another person's post, but do not turn things into personal attacks.


----------



## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> 
> Old Fogey warning: Why is it people eat everywhere these days? I was at a science museum and people were wandering around the exhibits with fried chicken and there was popcorn strewn throughout the entire place. I'm very grateful ds doesn't have major allergies and think it's really the least people can do to not sprinkle and smear food wherever they go.
> 
> \


I agree. I tend to plan ahead and make sure everyone will have what they need for a day trip like that but I don't feel the need to eat a lot outside of meals on the go because we really don't have to have food everywhere.


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I would like to further remind posters to give each other the benefit of the doubt. If another poster says something you find offensive you can either:
1) ask for clarifcation

2) report to Moderators

Please do not make personal attacks.

As always, feel free to PM me with any questions or concerns. I am quite confident all of the posters on this thread are simply doing the best they can for their kids and are normal, caring adults. Please keep that in mind when considering their motivations.


----------



## swd12422 (Nov 9, 2007)

In response to the OP, I do nothing. Our school is not nut-free and the kids frequently do crafts with food. The teacher sends out a note beforehand listing the ingredients to make sure no one has an issue with any of them.

That being said, we have several friends with allergies, although no one with severe contact allergies, and we are more careful when we are around them. And we only eat sitting at the table, not smearing food all over surfaces other kids are likely to touch, so I don't feel like we need to change any of our habits surrounding that. I never thought about having peanut dust on our clothes that could make someone sick, but if we became aware of someone in our community with that type of sensitivity, we'd probably change our habits to help keep them safe from exposure to us.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I had forgotten how intense allergy threads could be! But I appreciate all the feedback. I think we'll be more careful about wiping hands/face, though I think I've been pretty good about that. I don't think I'm going to do more unless and until we get information about someone they have regular contact with who has a very sensitive allergy. I think I might be a bit more careful before we play somewhere inside, like at the library or something, than outside, because it seems like nut shell bits and dust would blow away or something better outside. I just feel bad for kids who have to worry about things like whether there's nut residue on anything anywhere. Our family is very lucky, in so many ways.

Thanks for all the feedback. Really, even the disagreements helped to clear my mind about this.


----------



## LaughingHyena (May 4, 2004)

A little OT, but it would generally be people with type 1 diabetes who have the issues with hypos and need to eat NOW (or type 2's using insulin). Nuts would not be an ideal choice, they need sugar, be it glucose tablets, juice or sweets. Then a small snack of somthing with a starchy carbohydrate, snadwich, cereal bar or something.

I carry jelly sweets and a ceral bar. I do make sure to have a nut free bar as my kids school is nut free and I voluteer in the classrooms regularly.

Like others I have to say I've never really thought too much about playgrounds and other places we may be having a picnic. I do wash hands before eating and, most often afterwards, I don't want the kids attraching wasps with thier sticky fingers & faces.

If we're going somewhere I know there are kids with nut allergies I avoid peanut butter from breakfast, and I;m sure my sofa got vacumed far more often than usuall when I hosted coffee mornings where I knew we had a child with allergies.

I would not be offended if someone asked me to make sure I wiped down my childs hands & face after eating at a class. Just because there may be kids who ate nuts in the car on the way doesn't make it worthless to wipe down the child you've seen eating nuts. It still reduces the risks and might help other people think about them too. We have allergies to some wipes but I've never been to a class that didn't have a toilet area with sinks.

Now if I could get my kids class to take precautions if they insist on having dogs visit the classroom I would be happy. 3 visits in the last 7 weeks and I'm feeling pretty fed up. Really, meet the dog in the playground or soemthing. just not on the carpet in the classroom.


----------



## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> 
> Old Fogey warning: Why is it people eat everywhere these days? I was at a science museum and people were wandering around the exhibits with fried chicken and there was popcorn strewn throughout the entire place. I'm very grateful ds doesn't have major allergies and think it's really the least people can do to not sprinkle and smear food wherever they go.


I sort of agree with you.

In addition to the allergy and ick factor of smeared food, I think the whole "we need to have food all the time" just adds (or is a symptom of?) our obesity issues. You know what - you can wait 15 minutes for food, and you can eat it is sitting down at a table. This is not a judgement of individual wandering around with food - but a critique of the "need to have food now" mentality in general.


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> "we need to have food all the time"


this definitely seems to be growing! European made cars (kept in Europe) don't come equipped with cup holder but ours do

Quote:


> I;m sure my sofa got vacumed far more often than usuall when I hosted coffee mornings where I knew we had a child with allergies.


regular is fine, if you have pets sure you know hepa is best

with peanuts it is just not the peanut butter and so many forget sooooo much can contain peanuts, many Asia foods are cooked and fried in peanut oils and that can go all over


----------



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> this definitely seems to be growing! European made cars (kept in Europe) don't come equipped with cup holder but ours do
> 
> ...


Actually, peanut oil is not necessarily or even usually an allergen for peanut-allergic kids, and many allergists/doctors will say that heat-pressed peanut oil is fine for those with peanut allergy. Because oil is 100% fat, theoretically there should be no peanut protein in it. Cold-pressed peanut oil, like the kind you would buy in the health food store, is problematic, because its processing does not remove all traces of peanut protein; but restaurants that cook in peanut oil use commercial, heat-pressed oil. The problem at, say, a Chinese restaurant or at 5 Guys burgers is the actual peanuts that are everywhere, not the oil.

Of course, many parents with peanut-allergic children avoid the oil altogether, just to be on the safe side, and it's an area of controversy among doctors. But if you ate Chick-Fil-A fries cooked in peanut oil, you are not very likely to cause a reaction for a peanut-allergic child, certainly not in the way you are if you eat a peanut butter sandwich.


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

The person I know reacts to peanut oil as since he was a child- that is actually one of the first ways they found what was going on with him- he hadn't had peanut-butter when he was first diagnosed. What sent him first to the ER as a child was sesame oil.


----------



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> The person I know reacts to peanut oil as since he was a child- that is actually one of the first ways they found what was going on with him- he hadn't had peanut-butter when he was first diagnosed. What sent him first to the ER as a child was sesame oil.


Yes, sesame oil is usually unrefined and therefore is much more likely to cause allergies in sesame-allergic people. Certainly, individuals can react to nut oils, particularly cold-pressed nut oils. This thread was about caring with others with food allergies and my point was that eating or handling food cooked in peanut oil is far, far less likely to cause an allergic reaction in most allergic individuals than peanuts themselves.


----------



## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

*


----------



## MrsGregory (Dec 21, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> 
> Old Fogey warning: Why is it people eat everywhere these days? I was at a science museum and people were wandering around the exhibits with fried chicken and there was popcorn strewn throughout the entire place. I'm very grateful ds doesn't have major allergies and think it's really the least people can do to not sprinkle and smear food wherever they go.












Seriously. Growing up, if you were eating in public it meant you had enough to share. With everyone.

(Obvious exceptions: State fairs, lunchroom at school... you get the idea.)


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I agree with that too. And why is that every kid event I take a kid to involves a snack, no matter how long the event is and how close it is to a meal? Like an event from 11 to 12 includes a snack even though we'd have lunch right after it anyway. I don't get that. We need another thread. LOL.


----------



## Alasen (May 13, 2012)

Honestly, I'm not. Mine don't and won't go to school, so "peanut free" zones aren't a thing for us to worry about.

For about a year, I did take excessive care to not let my 4YO play with others when she had had nuts, until she had been wiped down or changed if it got in her clothes. But it got to the point that I just stopped.

As harsh as it sounds, the allergy-afflicted kid is not something I'm going to live my life or run my kids' lives around. Until they are old enough to advocate for themselves, they are their parents' responsibility. I can't be responsible for other peoples' kids and their conditions. If the child is that allergic, the parents need to keep an eye on them and ask others if contamination is a potential issue, every single time they play. If they don't and the child has a reaction, it's on the parents, not on me or my kids. It's their responsibility to inform other parents about the issues and then either keep the child away from contamination sources, or ask the parents of other children to take reasonable steps to insure contamination isn't an issue at that particular playdate.

I mean, for all I know, Bob has a polyester allergy. Does that mean that everything I buy cannot have polyester in it, because there's a random chance that I'll run into Bob somewhere? Why should I take extra precaution against peanut dust because someone, somewhere might be allergic to it?


----------



## delfin (Jul 11, 2007)

I always wonder why in a country so devoted to peanut butter there is peanuts allergy! where I live, no one has it, is not an issue at all. some people have celiacs but never ever heard of a peanut allergic kid. Why could this be? Peanuts are eaten, its very common to have them at bdays, or eating them while drinking beer in bars.

If I knew of an allergic person present, I would not bring peanuts-not a problem at all.


----------



## Ragana (Oct 15, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alasen*
> 
> I mean, for all I know, Bob has a polyester allergy. Does that mean that everything I buy cannot have polyester in it, because there's a random chance that I'll run into Bob somewhere? Why should I take extra precaution against peanut dust because someone, somewhere might be allergic to it?


This was my point further up. Of course, I take normal precautions in normal situations and special precautions when told about a specific child's issues, but you can't really prepare for every eventuality out in public.


----------



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *delfin*
> 
> I always wonder why in a country so devoted to peanut butter there is peanuts allergy! where I live, no one has it, is not an issue at all. some people have celiacs but never ever heard of a peanut allergic kid. Why could this be? Peanuts are eaten, its very common to have them at bdays, or eating them while drinking beer in bars.
> 
> If I knew of an allergic person present, I would not bring peanuts-not a problem at all.


The most common allergens in any culture tend to be the foods that are consumed most frequently. The top eight in the US--peanuts, tree nuts, wheat, soy, dairy, eggs, fish, shellfish--are all foods that are consumed in abundance. In the Middle East, sesame allergy is much more prevalent than it is elsewhere, because sesame is a much more commonly consumed food. Fish and shellfish are more common allergens in Asia than wheat and nuts, and certain fruits (stone fruits and pip fruits) are more common allergens in Europe than in the US.

Also, just to clarify, celiac is not the same as the wheat allergy, although they are commonly confused with one another. Celiac is a disease in which the small intestine becomes damaged and does not absorb food properly. My daughter has a true wheat allergy: consuming, touching, or inhaling wheat causes an IgE reaction; if she ingests wheat, it will cause anaphylaxis.


----------



## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *delfin*
> 
> I always wonder why in a country so devoted to peanut butter there is peanuts allergy! where I live, no one has it, is not an issue at all. some people have celiacs but never ever heard of a peanut allergic kid. Why could this be? Peanuts are eaten, its very common to have them at bdays, or eating them while drinking beer in bars.
> 
> If I knew of an allergic person present, I would not bring peanuts-not a problem at all.


I heard that peanut by products were/are an undisclosed ingredient in vaccines. That would account for it.


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Until they are old enough to advocate for themselves, they are their parents' responsibility. I can't be responsible for other peoples' kids and their conditions.


you mean like in personal responsibility? we are not good at that in the US- not just food allergies but in general- you can have a swimming pool, no kids on your own property and in most areas you must install a lock gate/fence-many things seem to be easy way out not responsibility of own-IMO

Quote:


> I heard that peanut by products were/are an undisclosed ingredient in vaccines. That would account for it.


person I know with peanut allergies was very selectively vaccinated (his started at age one- years before the number given now) and I know many fully vaccinated with none


----------



## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> I know many fully vaccinated with none


Obviously. The majority of US citizens are fully vaccinated and the majority do not have peanut allergies. Allergies are a multi factor thing; genetic tendencies combined with exposure, etc.


----------



## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Some peanut allergy/vaccine info links, fwiw.

http://vactruth.com/2010/07/15/non-disclosed-hyper-allergenic-vaccine-adjuvant/

_edited to remove link to whale.to ~AdinaL_


----------



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> 
> I heard that peanut by products were/are an undisclosed ingredient in vaccines. That would account for it.


My daughter, who has about 10 severe food allergies (6 of the top eight, plus a bunch of other foods) is not vaccinated. There are many unvaccinated children with food allergies. And while peanuts get much of the press, there are eight "big" food allergens in the US. Vaccines do use eggs/albumin, but there are no other food products in them.


----------



## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

From one of the links in my above post:

"What peanuts have in common with vaccines is something that very few healthcare consumers and medical doctors may be aware of: *Peanut oil is a hidden and non-stated ingredient in the manufacture of children's vaccines*. This was brought to light in a 2010 court case wherein parents were accused of Shaken Baby Syndrome; had their child taken from them and placed in foster care for almost eight months; and Harold E. Buttram, MD, presented corroborating medical information to the court regarding the anaphylactic reaction the six-month old baby boy experienced resulting in tremendous swelling and pressure of the brain."

Again, I wasn't saying that vaccines are the one and only cause of allergies or that unvaccinated people will never have allergies or that vaccinated people will, without fail, have allergies. We were talking about possible causes for the increase in severe peanut allergies.


----------



## WildKingdom (Mar 26, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> 
> Some peanut allergy/vaccine info links, fwiw.
> _Edited to remove link to whale.to ~AdinaL_]
> http://vactruth.com/2010/07/15/non-disclosed-hyper-allergenic-vaccine-adjuvant/


Whale.to is not exactly a reliable source. It's a known Holocaust denial site.


----------



## Alasen (May 13, 2012)

I don't think it's that bad, LOL. I have kids over to ride horses all the time. Then again, if they're being allowed to ride in the first place, their parents probably aren't the kind who overprotect and can't accept responsibility or the potential for accidents, so maybe that's not a great sample.

Though I have to say, I'm not sure why a locked gate (or in our case, an alarm gate) on a pool is representative of a lack of personal responsibility







If anything, it is the responsible thing to do. No one can watch their kids 24/7 and all it takes is a couple of minutes for a toddler to drown. Especially if it's at a party or family thing where there are lots of people and kids, you don't always know where they are in a crowd and it could be a while before you know they're gone. With an alarm gate, unless there's someone tall enough to disable the alarm, it lets you know when the gate is opened so you can go make sure no one's going to be there unattended.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Though I have to say, I'm not sure why a locked gate (or in our case, an alarm gate) on a pool is representative of a lack of personal responsibility
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you missed my point- I was referring to a couple that had NO children- their own property- they are NOT responsible if other would trespass and drown- get it? people do not take personal responsible for lots of things and expect other to do it for them-----if your child wonders into another property YOU should be responsible and watch your child- same goes with your child leaving food in public places- your responsibility to clean up after YOUR child- not make others do it

another example -

Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> ...


not taking personal responsibility - expecting OTHERS to clean up after you

would love to see the litter bug ad brought back- some people are pigs and feel the world needs to clean up after them

expecting other to do your job


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> you missed my point- I was referring to a couple that had NO children- their own property- they are *NOT responsible if other would trespass and drown*- get it? people do not take personal responsible for lots of things and expect other to do it for them-----if your child wonders into another property YOU should be responsible and watch your child- same goes with your child leaving food in public places- your responsibility to clean up after YOUR child- not make others do it


This is definitely not true. A pool is an "attractive nuisance" in tort law, and is at least one of the very many reasons that having a pool on your (general you) property makes peoples homeowners insurance go WAY up, especially if its not properly enclosed/gated/locked.


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> This is definitely not true. A pool is an "attractive nuisance" in tort law, and is at least one of the very many reasons that having a pool on your (general you) property makes peoples homeowners insurance go WAY up, especially if its not properly enclosed/gated/locked.


gates are not required in my area- nothing

it definitely is not required in all areas-parents were just held responsible last year in my area for a toddler that wondered off not the homeowner

if I have poison ivy growing on my property and your child is allergic to it and you are not watching your child and they trespass YOU are responsible! and people do grow peanuts not just farmers

parents are the ones that must take personal responsibility not pushing it onto others- most food so far not illegal


----------



## Alasen (May 13, 2012)

Sorry, I can't get it to quote, I'm still trying to figure out this forum's system.

@serenbat, There's no need to be rude or use caps at me.

I'm not sure what your deal is here. Do you just want to lecture or push your "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY" thing as hard as you can? Most of us here seem to agree with you, including myself, though I still don't see how securing a pool is a bad thing. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, or your sentence structure/grammar is throwing me, but you're coming off very forceful and a bit rude and there's just no need for that.


----------



## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> same goes with your child leaving food in public places- your responsibility to clean up after YOUR child- not make others do it
> 
> another example - "popcorn strewn throughout the place."
> ...


Right, people should take responsibility for their peanut butter smeared children and wipe them down.


----------



## Alasen (May 13, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Indeed. Our pool is a complete nuisance, it was the first owner's installation back in the 60's. Almost as bad as being a safety thing, it's a PITA to maintain. Every year we vow to get the thing removed, but never seem to get around to it. Heh.


----------



## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WildKingdom*
> 
> Whale.to is not exactly a reliable source. It's a known Holocaust denial site.


Well, that particular page is a compilation of articles from www.thedoctorwithin.com , www.alternativehealthjournal.com , http://vactruth.com/2010/07/15/non-disclosed-hyper-allergenic-vaccine-adjuvant/ , this book: http://www.amazon.com/History-Peanut-Allergy-Epidemic/dp/1449916651 if any of those sources are more reputable.


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Sorry, I can't get it to quote, I'm still trying to figure out this forum's system.
> 
> @serenbat, There's no need to be rude or use caps at me.
> 
> I'm not sure what your deal is here. Do you just want to lecture or push your "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY" thing as hard as you can? Most of us here seem to agree with you, including myself, though I still don't see how securing a pool is a bad thing. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, or your sentence structure/grammar is throwing me, but you're coming off very forceful and a bit rude and there's just no need for that.


make it large or small you as the parent should take responsible

inferring others have to watch out for your child for a non-illegal thing (such as food, etc) is simply wrong

also in my state we have open pit quarries (owned by multi-bilindollar companies) and they are not forced to gate them, drowning happens in them very often, same as a private pools-personal responsibility


----------



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> 
> Well, that particular page is a compilation of articles from www.thedoctorwithin.com , www.alternativehealthjournal.com , http://vactruth.com/2010/07/15/non-disclosed-hyper-allergenic-vaccine-adjuvant/ , this book: http://www.amazon.com/History-Peanut-Allergy-Epidemic/dp/1449916651 if any of those sources are more reputable.


I know of the book, but one of the problems with it is that it talks about the "peanut allergy epidemic" as though there aren't epidemics of OTHER allergies. If the problem is peanut oil in the vaccines, then does the author mean to suggest that there is also undisclosed soy, wheat, fish, shellfish, dairy, and tree nuts in vaccines? And, of course, this doesn't explain the presence of food allergy--including the unusual, severe "combination" food allergies like my daughter has--in unvaccinated children. We once had a doctor show us this book and insist that we should stop vaccinating our daughter immediately, because vaccines had likely caused or contributed to her allergies. When I reminded her that dd had never been vaccinated, the doctor said it must have been other "injectables." When I countered that dd had not, in fact, been injected with anything, ever, she was pretty much speechless. (We found a new doctor, by the way.)


----------



## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

*


----------



## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NYCVeg*
> 
> I know of the book, but one of the problems with it is that it talks about the "peanut allergy epidemic" as though there aren't epidemics of OTHER allergies. If the problem is peanut oil in the vaccines, then does the author mean to suggest that there is also undisclosed soy, wheat, fish, shellfish, dairy, and tree nuts in vaccines? And, of course, this doesn't explain the presence of food allergy--including the unusual, severe "combination" food allergies like my daughter has--in unvaccinated children. We once had a doctor show us this book and insist that we should stop vaccinating our daughter immediately, because vaccines had likely caused or contributed to her allergies. When I reminded her that dd had never been vaccinated, the doctor said it must have been other "injectables." When I countered that dd had not, in fact, been injected with anything, ever, she was pretty much speechless. (We found a new doctor, by the way.)


Again, I never said vaccines are to blame for all allergies. It's a theory as to why there is an increase in peanut allergies. One of those articles in the links also mentioned yeast protein being in some vaccines. There's another allergen for you. The vaccine industry hasn't been stellar about making their ingredients known, considering them trade secrets. My own unvaccinated ds had/has soy and dairy allergies. Mild, fortunately. I even delayed giving him dairy until he was one to minimize the possibility of allergies due to an immature digestive tract since I was assuming he was genetically predisposed to having allergies due to his family history.

There is no one cause of allergies. However, like autism, there has been a crazy increase in frequency and it makes sense to investigate possibilities rather than just saying it can't be helped, nothing being done to these children could possibly be increasing their risk. Then, there is also that phenomenon where a body can handle a certain amount of exposure to an allergen, but when it is compounded by exposure to another allergen, the body has a stronger reaction. I can't eat feta cheese during ragweed season without a reaction although I can eat it just fine other times of the year. Allergies are complicated.


----------



## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

*


----------



## Alasen (May 13, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Still not sure what your issue is. If you'll read back, I 100% agree with you on people not having to alter their lives in fear of someone, somewhere having an allergy to something.

No need to be rude or confrontational. This is not a 'simply right' or 'simply wrong' issue and your opinion is not the word of god here.

Add: Also, it might be helpful if you tried to use some punctuation. It's very difficult to read what you're writing or understand the tone of it when everything is so disjointed.


----------



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> 
> Again, I never said vaccines are to blame for all allergies. It's a theory as to why there is an increase in peanut allergies. One of those articles in the links also mentioned yeast protein being in some vaccines. There's another allergen for you. The vaccine industry hasn't been stellar about making their ingredients known, considering them trade secrets. My own unvaccinated ds had/has soy and dairy allergies. Mild, fortunately. I even delayed giving him dairy until he was one to minimize the possibility of allergies due to an immature digestive tract since I was assuming he was genetically predisposed to having allergies due to his family history.
> 
> There is no one cause of allergies. However, like autism, there has been a crazy increase in frequency and it makes sense to investigate possibilities rather than just saying it can't be helped, nothing being done to these children could possibly be increasing their risk. Then, there is also that phenomenon where a body can handle a certain amount of exposure to an allergen, but when it is compounded by exposure to another allergen, the body has a stronger reaction. I can't eat feta cheese during ragweed season without a reaction although I can eat it just fine other times of the year. Allergies are complicated.


I didn't mean to suggest that you were saying vaccines were to blame for all allergies, and I certainly know that allergies, like autism, are complicated and not easily or simply explained. I was only offering some critique of the book itself.


----------



## newmamalizzy (Jul 23, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> you missed my point- I was referring to a couple that had NO children- their own property- they are NOT responsible if other would trespass and drown- get it? people do not take personal responsible for lots of things and expect other to do it for them-----if your child wonders into another property YOU should be responsible and watch your child- same goes with your child leaving food in public places- your responsibility to clean up after YOUR child- not make others do it
> 
> ...


First, I have to say that this has been a thoroughly amusing thread to follow.

Second, with this last comment I am now totally confused. Is the "personal responsibility" in question that of the allergic child's parents to keep said child safe? (And how, I'm wondering, should said parent do that if they can't solicit the kindness/courtesy of strangers?) Or is it each parent's personal responsibility to clean up their child's messes? (i.e. Wiping peanut-butter hands before the child smears it all over the slide).

Thirdly, I'm not sure how this thread became all about what we are "responsible" for or "expected" to do, when it started as a very thoughtful question from someone who WANTED to do right by the peanut-allergy people. Voluntarily. The fact that you are not required to gate your pool doesn't change the awful, horrendous pain you would feel if someone else's toddler drowned in it. And how might your child feel if they inadvertently caused another child to have a life-threatening allergic reaction? There are other reasons why we do things aside from "expectations."


----------



## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> gates are not required in my area- nothing
> 
> ...


Gates may not be required by statute, but children are a special class under the law and if they do wander on your property and are hurt or killed by a potentially dangerous condition on your property, you can bet that you would be potentially liable both under American and British tort law ("common law" as referred to by us attorneys). Super-Single-Mama is right, there's that pesky "attractive nuisance doctrine" out there. It was something created under common law and applies to children. The theory is as old as the hills, not some new tort idea. Why? Because society recognized that that there is a class of individuals who may be injured by our negligence in our failure to fence off dangerous conditions. Why do you think construction companies build fences around their sites? Not to protect from loitering or the theft of backhoes, but to protect children from injury.

I'm all for personal responsibility, don't get me wrong, but I also think that we have a duty as citizens to take reasonable precautions to protect children who may venture onto our property or who may be affected by our actions in public. That's just reasonable human behavior in my opinion. I take reasonable precautions so that others (particularly children) are not at risk if they venture into my personal space. The argument that we are absolved from our own responsibilities to society because "its not my problem or responsibility" is a hideous concept to me. I have no patience for that attitude. I really don't.

We all have a human responsibility to protect others from injury when dangers are within our control. I'm not asking that people build fortresses around themselves or their property. We live in a society where responsibility is a two-way street. This isn't brain science, it's common sense.


----------



## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AbbyGrant*
> 
> This is getting way off topic. Perhaps someone should start a thread in health and healing or vaccinations about vaccines and the increase in autism and allergies.


And one about property owner liability, lol. But seriously, what would be the fun in that?









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NYCVeg*
> 
> I didn't mean to suggest that you were saying vaccines were to blame for all allergies, and I certainly know that allergies, like autism, are complicated and not easily or simply explained. I was only offering some critique of the book itself.


Gotcha







.


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> We all have a human responsibility to protect others from injury when dangers are within our control. I'm not asking that people build fortresses around themselves or their property. We live in a society where responsibility is a two-way street. This isn't brain science, it's common sense.


If you are on your way home from work ( ex. and you work in a bakery and have gluten all over your clothing, or a restaurant/bar and you have peanut "dust", thai satay splatter, etc) are your obliged to have removed your clothing prior to leaving to protect those you may encounter and or can cause danger to on your way home? Same if you have ivy and it doesn't bother you- must you remove it to protect others that wonder into your yard?

Responsibility is two way but where you draw the line is what counts- there are certain requirements/law but there are lots of areas such as with allergies you are not required to protect other- where is that line? This thread seems to make those who don't take allergy precautions the baddies here.

Quote:


> Gates may not be required by statute


as with this, in my state, we can't enforce corporations to do so, asking citizens to do the same is mute- we have areas where these pits are within walking distance from homes (in towns) and given the situation as a Commonwealth, we err on the side of personal responsibility in most requirements-most of these pits are 500 to 1000+ feet deep and are right in communities and have been for over 200 years- every area is different-only working quarries are gated to protect equipment - children were taken last summer from a family because one drown in the bath tub- parents were not watching and it was deemed they did not take the responsibility needed in the situation, you can have a large ponds (back yard fish ponds are deep enough to drown a child), again you do not need to gate it-very little difference- some people only think "pool" and don't get the 4ft fish pond is there too!


----------



## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> Responsibility is two way but where you draw the line is what counts- there are certain requirements/law but there are lots of areas such as with allergies you are not required to protect other- where is that line? This thread seems to make those who don't take allergy precautions the baddies here.


I'll let the courts and the legislature draw the bright lines. Where the lines aren't so bright, I'll look inside myself and ask myself: can my actions or inactions potentially harm others? Is there something small and reasonable that I can do to prevent harm? For me, it is about doing what I feel is right, whether someone or some law is dictating it or not. Of course there are going to be levels of varying responsibility that people feel toward others. I just know what feels right for me.


----------



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> I'll let the courts and the legislature draw the bright lines. Where the lines aren't so bright, I'll look inside myself and ask myself: can my actions or inactions potentially harm others? Is there something small and reasonable that I can do to prevent harm? For me, it is about doing what I feel is right, whether someone or some law is dictating it or not. Of course there are going to be levels of varying responsibility that people feel toward others. I just know what feels right for me.


Exactly. I don't give up my seat on the subway to a pregnant woman or small child because I "have to"; I do it because it's the right thing to do. Likewise, I don't eat on the bus or let my kid run around with food and make a mess of public playgrounds--not only because of food allergies, but because I don't see why other children should have to play in my child's mess.

No one has suggested that those who don't take allergy precautions are "baddies." Allergies are simply not on most people's radars, and those of us who have food-allergic kids GET THAT, really we do. The original point of the thread was to 1) ask what people who ARE sensitive to other children's food allergies do and 2) to see what reasonable precautions might be most useful. No one said, "Everyone must do x, y, and z or they are scum!" The thread devolved only when people who DO wish to take precautions were attacked.


----------



## LitMom (Mar 6, 2012)

Okay, now I've finally read the whole thread. I don't worry about it in peanut-filled public spaces (playground, where I always see pbj sandwiches; museums with pb-allowed lunch areas; camps that allow nuts; airplanes). We normally eat a lot of peanut butter, as a good vegetarian protein source.

But, I don't do overtly-peanut-containing lunches for my kids when they go to school/homeschool coop, nor breakfasts with nuts on the days they have school/coop. The fact that there is a known peanut-allergic kid, though not severely allergic, at coop makes me more vigilant as well. I don't make sure every single thing in my kids' lunches is guaranteed completely free of any trace though. It seems like everything says "May be manufactured on equipment used to process peanuts, tree nuts, etc." and if it doesn't say it CONTAINS peanuts or peanut oil, etc., I don't worry about it. The parent of the allergic child at coop says that's fine, as her son has to actually eat peanuts himself to react, not just be near them. If his allergy was more severe, I imagine we'd try to have specific clothes and special food for the days we did activities with him.

When a child that I know has an allergy comes over to play, I make sure we have peanut-free products for him to eat and my kids eat the same snack that he does. When he was coming for a birthday party, I made sure everything in the cake was peanut-free and that most of the food was totally peanut-free/cross contamination-free. (I believe 1-2 of the snacks had that "may be manufactured on equipment also used to process nuts" and I just warned he and his mother of the labels and he chose other stuff to eat). For the cake, it took a couple of days to make and decorate, so I kept my kids from eating nuts for all those days and the day of the party.

I don't think I'd allow a highly peanut allergic child who reacted to any residue or airborne exposure come to our house, though, because we eat so much peanut butter normally and I would worry that some could be somewhere unexpected.


----------



## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Ds has allergies, a lot of them, but not to nuts and nothing that will kill him.

But I rarely give him anything peanut (except whole peanuts at baseball games). If he has other nuts, he usually eats them at home, and he pretty much always washes up after eating because he is messy!

At public places, I usually bring fruit or veg for snacks, but occasionally he will ask for pistachios or almonds. If he has either of those I have him wash his hands before returning to play equipment, and I make sure all the shells get put in the trash.

He has friends who are VERY allergic to nuts so I make sure he doesn't have any at all on days we are going to play with them.

I do think people should be aware, especialy when what they are eating could kill someone. I get people spraying that spray-on sunscreen near me without moving to an empty area and that stuff makes my throat close up and gives ds a rash, its really awful!


----------



## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leighi123*
> 
> I do think people should be aware, especialy when what they are eating could kill someone. I get people spraying that spray-on sunscreen near me without moving to an empty area and that stuff makes my throat close up and gives ds a rash, its really awful!


And scents! They give me an awful headache. I know they are not the same as nut allergies&#8230;.

None-the-less&#8230;I think the root of the problem is the same&#8230;people not acknowledging or caring that they live in communities and that their actions can negatively affect someone.


----------



## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> When the older one was in preschool, there was a kid there with a bad peanut allergy, and I wouldn't let her have anything peanut related until after she was in school each day. So no peanut butter on toast for breakfast, for instance.


yup this was us too. one of the kids in dd's daycare was deathly allergic to avocado and strawberries - dd's fav. food. we had them only on fri and saturday.

because of my exposure to this if dd ate pbj i'd not serve it before the park. however dd hates pbj - always has so wasnt an issue. but i never made her an egg sandwich at the park either.

we are not so much into nuts. a bit of almond and cashews and walnuts and if and when budget allows hazelnut.

instead we eat a lot of beans - a huge variety of beans.


----------



## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> I'll let the courts and the legislature draw the bright lines. Where the lines aren't so bright, I'll look inside myself and ask myself: can my actions or inactions potentially harm others? Is there something small and reasonable that I can do to prevent harm? For me, it is about doing what I feel is right, whether someone or some law is dictating it or not. Of course there are going to be levels of varying responsibility that people feel toward others. I just know what feels right for me.


I would have had your philosophy too. however i was working for a private legislative company and heard about a elem. boy dying in school in maine coz the state refused to do anything about peanut less snack (meaning everything - peanut oil, proccessed in facility that has used peanuts) being sold in school. the boy ate a teenie bit from a friend who had one processed in a nut using facility. he was not the first death and the govt did nothing and i watched the bill die.

i wasnt a mom then. however i was moved v. deeply by this.

esp. after i heard that some kids actually lose their critical allergy when they are older if they are kept in a completely specific allergy world - i became even more careful.

plus watching my friend carry her epipen to playdates was reason enough (however for them it was bees - not pbj)


----------

