# Hearing about other babies makes me sad...



## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

A mama I know just asked how other people get their 5 month olds to sleep so well, because her breastfed 5 month old still wakes up a lot. Of course, the first piece of advice she was given was "let your baby CIO...we've been letting our baby CIO for a while [the baby just turned 5 months old] and she sleeps almost all night". It just makes me SO sad...little 4 and 5 month olds crying themselves to sleep all alone.









Why can't people understand that 5 month olds SHOULDN'T be sleeping through the night if they don't do it on their own without having to cry themselves to sleep. Heck, my 16 month old only sleeps through the night twice a week or so.

I just get so sad reading about these tiny little babies crying all alone in the dark in a crib...


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## willowsmom (Oct 28, 2004)

It makes me sad too.


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

It gets worse... I just heard about someone wanting advice on CIO for *3 month olds*.... She wants her NEWBORN to sleep from 11 until 5, and wants to do CIO to have it happen...


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## ALLEYCAT (Sep 2, 2004)

The thought of a 6 month old laying in a crib all alone crying, nearly make me throw up.


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

I can't understand how a mother could do it, and sadly most of them think its *the right thing to do* and I am sure their heart is telling them differently. Not that I met anyone that I know did/does CIO but I don't know too many mothers more than superficially. I know it makes my heart sad.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

We had a neighbor across the street who did this to their baby the summer he was 3 or 4 mos old...our bedroom window was across from the baby's window....OMG. I was seeing red. Their phone # was unlisted, oh how I wanted to call them in the middle of the night when he was crying and crying (you know that cry)...and I wanted to scream at them, "Do you hear your baby??!







" It was terrible.

Dh's brother and his wife did it to their grandchild! Their dd was living with them, with the baby. On our first visit to see the baby, a few weeks old, they were all bleary eyed...and told us how they were "getting the baby to sleep through the night" I was like, "Are you kidding me???" We don't see them very much since...


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## Gidget (Aug 31, 2002)

That is so sad. When I was pg with Isaac and exhausted out of my mind, April was still waking to nurse. And because I was starting to make colostrum again she woke up even more. She had stopped co-sleeping at 9 months and would not do it again no matter how much I tried. I was in a terrible state of depression. EVEN then. When my counselor told me to let my 14 month old cry it out I told him I would die of exhaustion before that happened.

And my now 16 month old son has NEVER slept through the night. NOt a problem. He sleeps with me. I feel so sorry for babies who are left to cry alone. I feel sorry for bigger kids too. I read a thread somewhere about someone who knew someone who would whip thier kid with a belt when she cried because she was scared alone in her room. I think she was 4 or so. That makes me wanna cry too. Poor baby!


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

I hate CIO stories too. It just makes me shudder. We have such a warped attitude about sleep in this culture. *sigh*


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## lisap (Dec 18, 2004)

Letting a child CIO goes against every motherly instict in my body!


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## Vermillion (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ALLEYCAT*
The thought of a 6 month old laying in a crib all alone crying, nearly make me throw up.

The thought of *anyone* but especially a baby, crying all alone when all they want is love and comfort makes me want to throw up.

Imagine if these mothers were upset and feeling needy, asked for their husbands/partners comfort and were left in a room to cry it out, or get over it themselves, they would probably be crushed. Now that is an adult with the ability to self comfort if need be. A tiny baby (or any child) being forced to endure this is just downright unimaginable for me!


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

I've been there.. and I've done that.








I sat outside the door listening to my baby CIO. I cried myself. I literally was pulling out my hair by the handfuls I was so upset. Its one of the biggest regrets of my life, and I vowed to never do it again.


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## kavamamakava (Aug 25, 2004)

It's so weird and backwards to me that mom and dad stick the baby in a room to cry and sleep alone and then get in bed and cuddle each other to sleep.


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## katsam (Mar 3, 2005)

It makes me sad too. I hate hearing CIO stories, but hate hearing those so called experts who advocate for CIO even more.


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## Anno (Feb 18, 2005)

Well said, Kavamama..I couldn't agree more. I do get the heebie jeebies when I think of wee babies crying all alone until they give up. =(


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## mama24-7 (Aug 11, 2004)

When my dd was very young, everyone (except LLL) was telling me to let her CIO. My mom, dad, friends, everyone. I remember one person whom I respected a ton before this told me when dd was 4-6 months that "it's okay to teach her that you have needs too."







Huh??? I _knew_ that was wrong. THis person let both her kids CIO and her son still woke at night until he was 3.

Then there was another woman who let her dd CIO and she was telling me how months later they were going through it again. A few nights then it's all over, I think not.

And, dh's aunt who did it w/ her 3 boys, said I should. When I asked her how would dd know to trust me if I did that to her, she said she already knew to trust me, she just had to learn to sleep.









DD has never CIO'd and still doesn't sleep. I don't care if she doesn't sleep until she's 20, I'll never CIO. I always said that I didn't care if I was the only person in the world who thought it was wrong, I would never, ever do it to her.

Sus


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kavamamakava*
It's so weird and backwards to me that mom and dad stick the baby in a room to cry and sleep alone and then get in bed and cuddle each other to sleep.

or worse, in my opinion, mom and dad get in the bed together with the dog! I know lots of people who will let their dog sleep in their bed, but not their own baby, who is crying and calling out for human contact.


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## erinl1972 (Feb 13, 2004)

mama 24-7
here! here! I so agree with what you said. I've said that myself. AND i don't care how many studies say it's not harmful, i don't need a study to tell me what is right or wrong for my baby. dd, 16mos, has never slept more than 3 hrs at a stretch. i've said that same thing about not sleeping through till they are 20. so glad to get this validation. thanks!

erin


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

there are NO studies that can claim CIO is not harmful. On the contrary...check out the thread on sleep training programs below...


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)




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## stirringleaf (Mar 16, 2002)

i just want to post this here, to let you mamas know you are doing the right thing, even though you already know that.

my ds NEVER slept through the night until about 2 months ago. he just turned 3. he used to wake up 4-6 times a night almost right up to last december. it started tapering around then to about 2 wakings a night. then suddenly he just did it. when he was tiny, he would wake like every 1 to 2 hours !!!!

i had such a hard time hanging in there all those 3 years. i have been to this board many times, desparate, exhausted, sick of nursing all night.

but ill tell you right now it was worth it. he DID learn to sleep, on his own, at his own pace. we dont really co-sleep anymore but thats just cuz i realised we were waking each other up all night. we still do it on nights when he is sick or we just ( both of us ) need extra closeness. i still nurse him to bed so he falls asleep next to me every night. on rare occasions he does wake up i either take him into me and dhs bed or i go sleep with ds for the rest of the night. someday i look forward to him being ready to just go lay down and fall asleep on his own, but he just isnt ready yet.

its really really worth it. i feel so good that he sleeps all night on his own, i know i am not abandoning him because he is clearly ready, not having been forced to do it. i still couldnt let him CIO , even though he is older. thats horrible about the 4yo being whipped wth a belt!!!!!!!! thats abuse it really is!!!!!!!

i know this was a little OT but i felt compelled to share.


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## bu's mama (Mar 25, 2004)

I totally agree. My heart just breaks. My brother & sil let their babies cio & I just find it so sad.

One incident that had me so angry was right around when Hannah was born. I had read the Continuum Concept & was just learning about ap as a parenting approach & strongly agreed with it. I was reading one of those throwaway baby magazines (American Baby?) and I can't rember what the person was writing about, but they stated that they had bought a carpet steam cleaner because their baby was throwing up every time they let him/her cio.









I couldn't believe it. Not only do I think it's cruel, but they would rather spend the time cleaning up a mess than spend with the baby in the first place. I really didn't believe there were people out there like that, and sadly I have come to realize it's more common than not.


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## MilkyMcGee (Jan 30, 2005)

That's pretty gross


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## ellensprout (Feb 3, 2005)

I just wanted to add that my daughter, 17 months old doesn't sleep through the night at all. I could no more CIO than hurt her physically. I have been , and to a large extent still am desperate for sleep, time with my husband, etc. here's the amazing part: I have listend closely to my daughter since day one. In the listening, I knew something was wrong. I kept watching, and taking her to doctors, alternative practitioners, etc. They were all either mystified, or explaiend patiently that I had a colicy baby ( translate, they don't know what's wrong). To make a very long story short, we now believe she has a rare disorder, and that by waking and nursing she is soothing a very painful condition. Ha! Imagine that, she knows what's good for her, adn all I had to do was respect that. Now, I am not saying that there is anything "wrong" with any child who doesn't sleep, in the way that we are dealing with, but I do truly beleive they are doing the best they can to take care of themselves, and that if your child is not sleeping or crying when it's time to go to sleep , something about sleeping isn't working for them. So keep listening and responding, and hang in there!


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## mommytojam (Jan 26, 2005)

Oh, it makes me so sad to hear about baby's being made to CIO. I have people telling me to just put her in the nursery at church because I'm spoiling her by attending to her before she starts fussing instead of putting her in the nursery to CIO. Ooooh that just riles me up!!! They just don't understand that baby's have needs and I don't want to teach her that she has to cry and whine to get my attention!!!!


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## mandalamama (Sep 1, 2004)

i've been blessed with a baby who only wakes up once at night, even with teething now she's only up twice a night. so i honestly haven't gone through the sleep deprivation that you other mamas have gone through, and i can't imagine how desparate you must feel after a while ... and i think you're awesome, so intensely dedicated to your kids that you refuse to use CIO!









the mainstream board i also frequent, is part of a larger forum, they have a "CIO Support" forum, my jaw dropped when i saw the title. i went in there and read, it was like watching a train wreck, i felt ill but i just kept reading. so i can learn all the different things CIO moms are doing, so i can gather articles on alternatives to pass on whenever i encounter a CIO mom.

the thing that struck me most is the defensiveness ... as if they all KNEW they were doing something wrong, and had to go to great lengths to defend it, even on a board created to "support" them.

what made me most ill were threads like this:
mom 1: "she only vomited while crying twice last night!"
moms 2 through 10: "you're making such great progress!"
SIGH.

i can *hear* the love these women have for their babies in their posts, they are just so misguided and misinformed. i feel like if they had the right information and some encouragement from their families, friends and the medical community, they'd realize what they're doing is working in the short-term but harming their kids in the long-term.


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## sebarnes (Feb 2, 2005)

mellybean said:


> what made me most ill were threads like this:
> mom 1: "she only vomited while crying twice last night!"
> moms 2 through 10: "you're making such great progress!"
> SIGH.
> ...


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## be11ydancer (Dec 2, 2003)

Stirringleaf,
Thanks for your thoughts and experience on this. It's nice to hear about cosleeping success stories where the child does things at their own pace and everyone is much happier and at peace with it.


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## Marina S (Jan 20, 2005)

sebarnes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mellybean*
> ...


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## sistermama (May 6, 2003)

Marina S said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *sebarnes*
> ...


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## Marina S (Jan 20, 2005)

I kid you not. I found the book I was talking about on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...226231-7814513

What scares me is that there were so many good reviews! Only one person had the gumption to say this book was crap, she even talks about the part I referred to -- that babies enjoy puking.









By the way, I read more about the author -- a child psychologist specializing in "sleep disorders". You see? THAT'S the problem!! Our society decides that normal infant behavior is somehow a disorder because it is not convenient to the adult world; ie, that because a baby/child is not sleeping soundly through the night, they have a "disorder". How screwed up is that? No one takes the time to discover that babies don't sleep through the night because they are not yet MEANT to sleep through. That sleep, like crawling or walking, is a milestone that will be reached in due time, encouraged with patience and love. It cannot be forced, you know?

So. What is WRONG with our society that so many people buy into this stuff? And use this abuse on innocent children, whom they profess to love? Argh.

Anyway, there's the book. Spread the word about how it is garbage, if anyone ever asks!!!!


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## mraven721 (Mar 10, 2004)

A LLL leader told me this once and I thought it was a great piece of advice.

'sleeping through the night is defined as sleeping for 4 hours solid'

I don't know if it's true or not, or if anyone did a study. What I do know is that at meetings when she says this the faces of the infant moms totally relaxes and they feel at ease. I think sometimes people say they have 'sleep problems' but really it's not a problem for them, it's a problem for society. I love what E. Pantley said in NCSS, it's only a problem if it's bothering you and your family!


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gidget*
I read a thread somewhere about someone who knew someone who would whip thier kid with a belt when she cried because she was scared alone in her room. I think she was 4 or so. That makes me wanna cry too. Poor baby!

that was me. (not the whipper, the poster of the whipping story.) i guess i shouldn't be surprised that the story touched others, it pretty much revolted me to hear it over the phone. time to start doing some spring cleaning in the friendship department...


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

please keep the user agreement in mind when posting, which asks us to refrain from:

Quote:

Posting to invite members to other boards for debate purposes *or posting about discussions at other boards*. This is to maintain and respect the integrity of our own and other communities.
thanks!


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
We had a neighbor across the street who did this to their baby the summer he was 3 or 4 mos old...our bedroom window was across from the baby's window....OMG. I was seeing red. Their phone # was unlisted, oh how I wanted to call them in the middle of the night when he was crying and crying (you know that cry)...and I wanted to scream at them, "Do you hear your baby??!







" It was terrible.


I would have called the cops and allowed the parents to explain to the police just how, exactly, what they were doing wasn't abuse.


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## kiahnsmum (Oct 22, 2004)

While i read this thread there is a child next door crying in his room alone, i have heard him many nights and it is breaking my heart. we are new to this neighbourhood so i have not met the parents i feel like breaking the door down, this thread motivates me more to do something tomorrow im going over to introduce myself and see where it goes from there.

The worst stories i have found are from my own family when i hear what they do to my niece and nephew i wanna puke!!!


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