# misbehaving in preschool and negative teacher (and i'm having a hard time!)



## bellflower (Aug 6, 2004)

So it's my 4 y.o.'s 1st year in preschool and she's getting in trouble. today it was about yelling at a child who stepped on her toe accidentally and yelling at another child who took out toys she'd just cleaned up. she got a time away until she could go back and ask to play nicely. another day she got time-out for taking toys away from another child after the teacher had asked her numerous times not to. but when the teacher went to put her in time-out she made grunting noises at her and tried to run away. so these are legitimate issues i know we need to continue to work on...sharing and using words and being respectful. but i guess i have a few issues i wanted to ask other people about.

i take it so personally when someone tells me she's done something wrong. i feel like loser mom of the year, like it's all a reflection of me as a parent. i know this is not rational but i feel so angry that she's misbehaving and i found myself in tears about it and i even blew up at her (which i raise my voice once in a blue moon) about an unrelated issue and i know the root cause was my feeling upset about what had happened at school. i felt terrible about it and aplogized and talked to her about it later. do any of you have a hard time not taking your child's behavior in public really personally?

the other thing is her teacher has not said one positive thing to me about her all year! not one! she jumped all over me one day b/c she felt i'd brought her back to soon after a cold, and she's let me know in a very frustrated way about he two other events i mentioned above. She always sounds really frustrated and does this right in front of the other parents which seems kind of tactless to me. And then in the conference she only mentioned negative things...she doesn't hold her pencil well or cut well, she's worried about her social skills, she doesn't play with other kids, etc etc. And while some things like not sharing are legitimate issues, there's alot of positive things that could be said about my daughter too. she's quite a character...really creative and verbal and bright. I was just amazed that she was all about the negative and hasn't said one positive thing to me yet! Even if I check in on how something went that day like sharing, the response is "There was no problem today" without even looking at me.

Am I expecting too much? I know my children are not perfect and I know I need to accept behavior issues will come up, but I guess I think if the teacher hasn't found anything positive to say in 3 months, something's wrong. What do you think?


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Gosh, I'm really proschool and even I would say look elsewhere. I understand wanting the preschool experience but it's early enough in the year that I think you could switch her to a more positive environment.

I'm a total MamaBear myself so I understand that.







But this teacher sounds like she doesn't have her focus in the right place. Once a label is formed, it's hard to change it.

Good luck! If you don't have any other options, I'd ask for a meeting w/the teacher and principal/administrator and really nicely say that you're very concerned w/the classroom atmosphere.


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

My ds has been in preschool for a year and a half and this has never happened! When he started he did have some issues with one little boy, and after a few weeks the teacher mentioned that he was having a hard time (nicely) and I spoke to him at home and problem solved "if this happens you need to use your words, or talk to your teacher and ask for help".. ever since he has been fine. Personally this teacher sounds ..... undeducated as to what is expected for a child in her first year of preschool... it takes a while for them to figure it all out..... and even if the teacher is frusterated, she shouldnt be speaking to you like that!! I would look into other preschools if it were me.


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## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

Hugs mama! I totally understand where you are coming from.

No wonder your DD "misbehaves" - sounds like she is surrounded by negativity in her pre-school, what else a child to do?

NOBODY is perfect and perfection should not be expected. Teacher should emphasize good traits and abilities, not dwell on negative ones. If something about your DD is of teachers concern, it definately should be discussed descreatly, not in the presence of other parents and not in the presence of your DD

You definately not expecting too much. I would be dissatisfied with such teacher, and find another school for DD.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I thought teaching degrees covered stuff like sharing positive things about children. She doesn't sound like a good teacher to me. Share your concerns with her and look for another preschool.


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

I'm actually on the fence about school, but I know one thing for sure: if the teacher weren't 100% compatible with me and my son, we would not be attending that school. It can really rub off on the child, and I'm sure you don't want that. Of course the first year of school is going to present some challenges, and the teacher needs to honor your child's needs to make mistakes. I would find another school.


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## `guest` (Nov 20, 2001)

I would talk to the teacher about your issues with your daughter. Honestly, sometimes teachers have probs with certain children, and unless you can find a way to work with the teacher, it's probably better to move your daughter. Hugs, it is hard to not take things personally with our little ones.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SMUM*
I would talk to the teacher about your issues with your daughter. Honestly, sometimes teachers have probs with certain children, and unless you can find a way to work with the teacher, it's probably better to move your daughter. Hugs, it is hard to not take things personally with our little ones.


I agree...wow...my dd is in preschool two afternoons a week...she loves it, her teachers make a point of giving me positive feedback every single day when I pick her up and one day when she misbehaved a bit they asked me if anything was wrong because she wasn't herself and I told them she had gotten up too early so was tired. They were very concerned about her and not focussed on the behaviour so much.

I think you have hit on a bad teacher...moms can be sensitive about their children and a good teacher would be sensitive to this so even when issues come up they would take it up in private. It's unprofessional to do it in front of other children and risky too...I mean some mamas would go off on them.

Do you know any of the other parents? Maybe have a little chat and see if anyone else has any kind of problem with the teacher...descreetly of course.

Trust your instincts on this...and your dd's...it will never fail you!

good luck


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## bellflower (Aug 6, 2004)

gosh, thanks, you guys. i was really feeling the support








to be honest, i hadn't thought of moving her because she seems like she's enjoying school, she was so nervous before she started and she seems to be enjoying herself so i thought it might be more harmful to uproot her. i have definitely thought to myself that if she went more than 2 mornings a week, i'd be out of there and finding another place because i would not want such a teacher to be having that much of an influence on her. but to hear all of you so vehemently backing up my thoughts about this experience, i've begun to think maybe it's not just me being overly sensitive. maybe i really do need to address the issue and talk to her or the director (i'm not sure who to start with first) and if i don't feel satisfied, maybe we should look elsewhere. i just hate to make her go through another big change. but then maybe her difficulty adjusting is in part because her teacher is definitely not a warm, nurturing type. One of you mentioned how every day the teacher says something positive about your child. When I worked as an assistant in Head Starts before I made it a point to say SOMETHING about the child to the parent, even if it was "wow, jimmy just wanted to read hop on pop 20 times today. he loves it." just something to let them know something about their child that day and to let them know we were really into their child. this teacher is definitely NOT into my child. and it's a bummer. so anyway thanks for your support. you've inspired me to try to dig a little deeper into this.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

You definitely should be concerned -- this doesn't sound like a good environment for your daughter. But, having moved a preschool chid from one school to another, please do everything you can to work it out here first. It is amazing how attached they get to their friends and school, even it the atmosphere isn't as positive as you would like. My DS cried for months every time we passed his old school and still, even though he's moved on to kindergarten, talks about how much he hated changing.

I think I would start with another teacher meeting. Outline your concern regarding the fact that she seems to emphasize the negative. Before that, you might want to chat with some other parents -- maybe this is the teacher's style or maybe its something specific to your child. If its a general style, that takes a different approach then if its just your child. If you don't get anything satisfactory from that meeting, then go to the director. Going to the teacher first is a matter of respect for her job (even if you don't actually respect her much).

And yes, I think all of us take it personally when we are told our kids are less than perfect. I'm struggling with this a bit myself right now because DS is in a really demanding kindergarten program and I get little negative notes home all the time. I know he's no worse than any other boy in class, but it is hard to keep things in perspective and not feel attacked all the time.

Good luck.


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## KarmaChameleon (Aug 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
I thought teaching degrees covered stuff like sharing positive things about children. She doesn't sound like a good teacher to me.











The course I am taking right now is called The Home-School connection, and the whole scope of the class is fostering positive relations between teachers and parents....it is SHOCKING how damaging some of the teachers' mindsets are with regard to parents. They forget that these kids are our babies


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

I'm a preschool classroom assistant....I work with kids who have less-than-perfect (but totally typical!) behavior every day.







FWIW, my 2 cents.
First of all, I work in a preschool where time-outs are a VERY RARE thing, and used only for major disruptions of class activities.

Second, it would be a HUGE no-no in our preschool to be making negative comments to a parent about their child where other parents can easily overhear. What the teacher I work with does is asks the parent to please stay a couple minutes or asks me to take over with the children for a couple minutes so she can speak to the parent with at least a bit of privacy. Also, when I'm working with the kids, I make a big effort to wait until the children are gone to discuss any concerns I have about anyone in particular with the teacher. The kids just don't need to hear it, even if there aren't other adults around. That concerns me that she says things to you where everyone can hear, unprofessional, IMO.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellflower*
So it's my 4 y.o.'s 1st year in preschool and she's getting in trouble. today it was about yelling at a child who stepped on her toe accidentally and yelling at another child who took out toys she'd just cleaned up. she got a time away until she could go back and ask to play nicely.

In our classroom, what would happen is the adult who saw it happen (or heard about it from kids involved) would talk to both the children. Your child would have been told that the other child didn't mean to step on her toe, it was an accident. She probably would have been told that it is OK to tell the other person it hurt, but not OK to yell at them. The other child would have been told that even though it was an accident, it still hurt (your child) and they need to tell her they're sorry. This is how you teach a child. Children are not *BORN* knowing exactly what to do in every social situation, they need to be taught. A time-out does not teach the child how to handle the situation. A situation like that would probably not even be mentioned to a parent because it's not a big deal to us--nobody was seriously injured, the incident was accidental, and we resolved it. (Unless we were for some reason keeping track of social skills and incidents like this one.)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellflower*
another day she got time-out for taking toys away from another child after the teacher had asked her numerous times not to. but when the teacher went to put her in time-out she made grunting noises at her and tried to run away.

This is another thing we have never given a time-out for in our room. The adult who noticed the kids starting to have a problem would go over to them and say something like 'Is everything OK here?' and then one of the kids typically says "I want to play with that!" or something. Then, if we know one of the kids can do this, we will ask them what they should do about it, if not, we make a suggestion like "Susie, you ride the bike two more times around the gym, then it's Mary's turn" or "Let's set the timer and when it rings it's time to let Mary have a turn" (AMAZING thing, that timer. We have almost NO arguments in our room now, most of the children, except for one who's new to our room and our young 3 year olds, will come and say they need help setting the timer so they can take turns.)

I know not all kids will willingly give up their turn when they're supposed to...in that case, a teacher will again step in and enforce the agreement. The child still doesn't have to have time out, most will cry or pout a few minutes (if even that long) and then decide to play somewhere else. Again, kids aren't just *born* knowing how to share. They need to be taught, and it helps to give them something like the timer, or let them have one or two more rides around the gym.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellflower*
so these are legitimate issues i know we need to continue to work on...sharing and using words and being respectful. but i guess i have a few issues i wanted to ask other people about.

I agree, legitimate issues. I just don't think she's learning anything sitting in a corner alone.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellflower*
i take it so personally when someone tells me she's done something wrong. i feel like loser mom of the year, like it's all a reflection of me as a parent. i know this is not rational but i feel so angry that she's misbehaving and i found myself in tears about it and i even blew up at her (which i raise my voice once in a blue moon) about an unrelated issue and i know the root cause was my feeling upset about what had happened at school. i felt terrible about it and aplogized and talked to her about it later. do any of you have a hard time not taking your child's behavior in public really personally?

As a mom, I understand this. As someone who works in a classroom with children, I can tell you that at least in our classroom, no adult thinks you're a bad parent because of anything your child does. Actually, it doesn't sound like she does anything out of the ordinary for being four and being new to interacting in a big group of kids. We think it's typical behavior, even if it's not desirable typical behavior, and we know children need to learn what TO do.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellflower*
the other thing is her teacher has not said one positive thing to me about her all year! not one! she jumped all over me one day b/c she felt i'd brought her back to soon after a cold, and she's let me know in a very frustrated way about he two other events i mentioned above. She always sounds really frustrated and does this right in front of the other parents which seems kind of tactless to me. And then in the conference she only mentioned negative things...she doesn't hold her pencil well or cut well, she's worried about her social skills, she doesn't play with other kids, etc etc.

That would concern me. As an assistant in the classroom, I don't do a *lot* of talking with parents, but on the occasions I do talk to them, I make a point to say something positive, even if I do have to say something negative. For example, we have one child who has had some major problems not wanting to clean up toys. When his mom came one day, she asked about it of course. And I told her that yeah, we had a problem that day. But I also told her about how he is a wonderful helper for one of our youngest kids and got all excited because she had gone potty in the toilet.







(We have one bathroom, many times we have one kid behind the curtain and others waiting or washing their hands.)
Any teacher who can't come up with SOMETHING positive about a kid sometime in THREE MONTHS really should consider another profession. JMO.

on the cutting and pencil-holding, does she get direct instruction with it? We've done activities as simple as just snipping on a black line. (we made turkey feathers







) They have to be able to cut that little line before they really have the skills they need to do a shape. Also, what are they cutting? if it's magazine pictures, for example, those are very hard for beginning cutters because the paper is thin and tears easily. Kids need regular construction paper first. (Also we have some really cool scissors in our room that have an extra hole above the one where their fingers go so they can put their middle finger in it. It seems to give them extra control. I always encourage my beginning cutters to try them, and many of my kids pick and use them because they're easier. You might see if you can find a pair for her to use at home. I think they're fiskars brand.)

We also give lots of opportunities to just have fun writing--they sign in on the whiteboard, they can write on the board during playtime, they have the option to 'write' their own plan for where they are going to play that day during snacktime, we have a big writing table with crayons, pencils, notebooks, all sorts of stuff to do 'mail', a variety of erasers, paperclips, just tons of stuff to have fun with.) and we always tell them they can write their name on things. I've found with practice, and if you make it fun, with no real 'rules', kids will *want* to do it, and their skills naturally improve. I would even say MOST four year olds don't hold a pencil 'correctly' at first, and the teacher i work with has never mentioned it as a big concern for our four year olds.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellflower*
And while some things like not sharing are legitimate issues, there's alot of positive things that could be said about my daughter too. she's quite a character...really creative and verbal and bright. I was just amazed that she was all about the negative and hasn't said one positive thing to me yet! Even if I check in on how something went that day like sharing, the response is "There was no problem today" without even looking at me.

That concerns me too. Any teacher worth having should be seeing a good sharing day as a major accomplishment for your child and should be at least a little excited.  You should be getting something more along the lines of 'She had a GREAT day! She asked me to set the timer so she could have a turn with the truck' or whatever it was that was good that day. *NOT AT ALL* too much to expect a response like that sometimes!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellflower*
Am I expecting too much? I know my children are not perfect and I know I need to accept behavior issues will come up, but I guess I think if the teacher hasn't found anything positive to say in 3 months, something's wrong. What do you think?

You want my absolute honest opinion? If my child went to a preschool where the teacher couldn't find SOMETHING positive to say about him in three WEEKS, let alone *months*, I'd be looking for a new preschool. A teacher needs to be meeting the child where they're at with skills and helping them to reach the next level, not setting expectations and complaining all the time when the child doesn't meet them! That is how kids learn. You can't learn how to read if you don't even know what the letter 'A' is, and you can't learn good social skills if no one has ever taught you how to take a turn or say 'yes please' and 'no thank you'. (not that I'm saying you haven't! It's a learned skill for kids, teachers need to be doing this too and it doesn't sound like your child's teacher is. Also, trying to negotiate a turn when you're in a group is different sometimes than when it's just you and one other kid. Kids need to be taught how to do that.) The whole point of preschool, IMO, is to learn social skills with other kids, and to learn basic skills needed for school (how to use scissors and glue, how to hold a pencil, etc.) It sounds to me like she's got a teacher who doesn't want to *teach* social skills. (And if that's the case, she doesn't just need to move up to an older grade, she needs an entirely new job, because you *never* seem to stop teaching kids social skills.) That's another reason I'd be looking for a new preschool. Just my opinion.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Umm....I come from a homeschooling advocacy pov.







If the teacher can impact you to feel that bad, what is she doing to your daughter's self-esteem during hours and hours with her? Your daughter is observing and experiencing the negativity modelled to others all day too. Certainly, your daughter may _want_ to be with the class because she craves a positive response from the only authority in the room; but if you can provide her with an alternative positive experience that meets her social needs, that may be preferrable in the long run. Could you just stop at the Christmas break and not go back? And concentrate on enriching her social life with smaller groups and more positive parental support while she has opportunities to navigate the social skills that can be learned just as well with 2 or 3 children, rather than 10+?

We have playgroups with children of all ages come to our home regularly; and we do crafts, painting, clay, drawing, beads, glue, games, physical play etc. And we have plenty of opportunities to take turns and share in a happily supervised environment. Perhaps that is available elsewhere too. But just not going back after the break unless _she initiates_ it, may create an opportunity to make a transition without it being traumatic. Or perhaps, just provide her with the choice of going each day, instead of insisting that 'we need to go', may create the space for *her* to decide that she would really rather stay home and do fun things with mom and friends. If you are needing the break/time, perhaps engaging a mother's helper to come for a few hours each week instead could meet that need in another way.

There are many more options than tolerating this. Another, possibility is to discuss with the teacher how you do prefer the focus to be on your daughter's *positive* attributes and that desire this be a positive introductory experience for your daughter in specific detail: 'I would like to hear what my daughter does well', 'I would like to hear how she is honored while she learns', 'I would like to hear what was happy about her day', 'I would like to hear how she is treated with respect when conflicts occur', 'I would like to understand that she is having positive models and information for resolving conflicts'. Don't just request that the teacher not focus on the negative, explain what you do need from the exchange for your daughter. Schools have a way of disempowering parent's "authority" about their children and creating a 'rely on the expert' mentality, if you let them.







The teacher doesn't know your daughter's strengths like you do. If you focus on her strengths, she will have the confidence to grow. If we focus on the deficits, self-esteem withers.

Your daughter is exactly who she needs to be. I believe as you apparently do that she needs nurturing and support, not scolding, to learn.

Pat


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Bail on the preschool asap. That's my advice. Spend the money you were spending on preschool on a housekeeper instead and do really fun homeschool preschool. Try again next year with a different teacher.

I don't give this advice lightly. I tried all last year to make a bad situation work. It was never going to work, because in spite of what many other families thought about this teacher, she just was not a good fit for our child.

This year, preschool is wonderful and magical. My dd was out sick, the teacher Emily called, and my dd heard and asked to speak with her. She took the phone and said "I love you Emily." They talked for a few minutes and I could tell she really did. I was at the school a few weeks ago and a little boy in her class came up to Emily and hugged her and said "I love you -- you're my hero." Emily gets spontaneous expressions of love from her three and four year old students on a regular basis. You can just feel the affection between kids and teacher when you enter the classroom -- it's almost tangible. (3 hours a day, 3 days a week, Emillio Reggio cooperative nursery school)

That's what your dd deserves for her first preschool teacher. I feel that at that early age, the teacher makes all the difference. It's a lot more important that whether the teacher follows a certain philosophy. Preschool can be wonderful, but you need a great teacher to make it happen.

Someone gave me the same advice I am giving you, but I kept trying to make it happen, and I tried all year, and it didn't happen.

Now it is working, thanks to the magic of Emily, and when it is right, it is so right. But when it is wrong, it is so wrong.


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Pat, I just read your post again and it really resonates for me. You are so right about the disempowerment of the parent with the teacher being the expert. Great insights.


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## bellflower (Aug 6, 2004)

thanks again to everybody who's been commenting and helping out. you're all definitely giving me some food for thought. i definitely know there are wonderful and loving preschool teachers out there and i feel so sad my daughter's first teacher is not warm and nurturing. i'd met some in other preschools i'd checked out. unfortunately i went with this one w/out getting a feel for the teacher, simply b/c i liked their emphasis on play as opposed to academics. now i'm thinking who cares what they're doing in the class, just give me someone who really loves the kids! i think i'll definitely talk with her soon. and maybe consider changing if i'm still not satisfied?? you guys have been super helpful. thanks alot.


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Please update!


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread, but I only got a couple sentences into your post when I decided that what you need to hear is that this place is just not good for your child.

A 4 year old yelling at another child is a 4 year old who needs a teacher to step in and guide the child through the situation. That is what happens in my DD's preschool. Any conflict immediately draws one of the teachers in who, very gently and non-judgementally, guides the children through the situation, giving them different words or actions they could use, etc. There is no such thing as punishment in our preschool.

Your child is being cheated out of learning how to deal with social conflicts. At this age, these skills are more important that reading, writing, or any other "academic" persuit.

I'd remove my child from such a place. You both deserve better.


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## Aeress (Jan 25, 2005)

I know how hard taking children away from their friends can be but sometimes it is necessary. I work with 2's in an accreditted program and we begin working on problem solving even at such an early stage. I have asked a child to find a quiet place to cool down but it is up to them to decide how long they need to rest and I always sit with them (if they want) and it was always as a last resort. I in the last 6months have moved my two dd's from a place they loved but it was not a choice since there were safety issues that I wouldn't budge on. *ugh* when 3 1/2 yr old would say "i miss..." my heart would break but after awhile I moved on and she is doing fine now.
being a parent is so tough when it comes to finding care (besides us) for our children. I truely love being a teacher and I think it shows with my relationships with my kids. I spend alot of time getting to know my familes....it is important to me and them.


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