# Neglected Neighborhood Child-WWYD



## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Ok, I say neglected only because that's my opinion, I so don't want to sound judgemental here but I NEED advice!!!

We live in a ruralish area, we actually live in the county seat of a rural area. Our specific neighborhood is tucked between a large church, that boasts an attractive playground and our kid's K-12 School building, which of course has another attractive playground. There are only 5 streets in our little sub of small 1950's cape cods, very working class, very tight knit. On the other side of the church is a busy 2 lane highway. Hard to get to on foot and no roads that directly tie the highway into our sub but it's there...The road our sub is off of is a two lane road as well and while the speed limit is only 35 mph, it's still busy.

Over the summer, a family moved in about three streets away. The mom has four kids and I think her boyfriend lives with them. The kids are boys who are 14 and 11, a five year old girl and a 3-4 year old boy. My oldest dd is friends with the oldest boy. The mom works and over the summer the littlest boy would often show up at our house, with no shoes, and if he couldn't play at our house, he'd go on to the school to play, we live on the last street before the school. The neighborhood kids all cut through our yards to get to the school, which is fine, so he wasn't ever out on any main roads but still...
I thought it was because mom was at work and the kids weren't watching him closely enough.

Since school's been back in session, he's shown up at our home several times and about 30 minutes later mom comes looking for him because he left without her knowledge. Last time it was 10:30 in the morning and she was in her nightgown and said he left while she was sleeping!!! She seems nice enough but a) doesn't know a thing about me, and she was fine to let him play at our house, she's met my older kids but still...and b)he never has shoes on!!!

I'm back at work and we have a sitter than comes to our home. I relieve her at 12:15 and take my son to preschool at 12:30. When I came to get Chase at lunch today, the sitter said a little blonde boy came over with no shoes on and asked to come in. I explained briefly and said she too had seen him alone over by her house, which is over by the church. About five minutes later we were loading into the car to go to preschool and here comes two middle school kids (who had been outside for gym class in the grassy area behind out property) with the little neighbor boy. I asked if he had been at the school and they said yes and I asked if they knew where he lived and they said yes so I went on to the school to take my son to class.

I don't know what to do. I know my oldest daughter has seen the father of the two youngest children at their home arguing with the mom over the kids in the past. I don't think she would respond well to my talking to her about it. I just have that impression. I've tried hard to be friendly and she's nice but not very receptive. My husband has wanted me to call CPS since about mid summer. He's just always alone! I love our neighborhood and I know all the kids look out for each other, and him but anything could happen, you just never know. I wish the school had called the cops and said a kid had wandered over there today! It's not really helpful to just take him home over and over.

So, any ideas or suggestions???


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## Eaglevoice (Nov 30, 2004)

Honestly, in this case I think I might call CPS. Just so the mom gets a loud and clear message that this is just not right.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

i like the CPS suggestion. obviously he is not being watched. obviously he is too young to be wandering all over, esp with no shoes! i think you should call. if anything, a visit from CPS will get the mom to keep a better eye on him.


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## Beeblebrox (Apr 6, 2005)

The shoe thing, to me, is *no big deal*. It is not always indicative of neglect and is actually good for growing kids. There are many groups of people who intentionally go barefoot as often as possible. That does *not* sound cps worthy to me. Now him all over the place at odd hours is concerning and I would talk to the mom about that before calling CPS. Just letting her know that you are not always available or maybe offer to give her some baby proofing things (which she may have and he is just able to get through). If she seems confused be honest about your concern over his safety. If shes not receptive, then shes not. Then take the next big step.


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## ChetMC (Aug 27, 2005)

I'd say that you need to go with your gut on this...

I have small kids. I've slept in until 10:30 in the morning. Our second DD wandered across the road to the park when she was 20 months old. Our kids would rather not wear shoes, or clothes for that matter. And often, by the time people get to kid number 4 they're running a pretty relaxed household. If the vibe is that this family really needs help though, you should call CPS.

Has your DD said anything to their older boy about his brother roaming so far? Have you talked to the little boy about why he wonders so much? If he's allowed to be wondering?

Aside from the shoes, does he seem uncared for? Is he showing up hungry? Is he beyond regular kid dirty?


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

As someone who is frantically ebaying clothes to fund pedipeds, I totally feel you on the shoe issue. I hate to talk about a little kid but he's dirty and honestly, it's not safe to be running all over the neighborhood with no shoes. There are several new homes going in down the street, I've had two flats in the last year, I'm only worried about injuries...

Thanks for the baby proofing idea, I'm going to stop on the way home and buy some of the door handle things, maybe that will help. She has said she told him to stay in the yard and he leaves...


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChetMC* 
I'd say that you need to go with your gut on this...

I have small kids. I've slept in until 10:30 in the morning. Our second DD wandered across the road to the park when she was 20 months old. Our kids would rather not wear shoes, or clothes for that matter. And often, by the time people get to kid number 4 they're running a pretty relaxed household. If the vibe is that this family really needs help though, you should call CPS.

Has your DD said anything to their older boy about his brother roaming so far? Have you talked to the little boy about why he wonders so much? If he's allowed to be wondering?

Aside from the shoes, does he seem uncared for? Is he showing up hungry? Is he beyond regular kid dirty?


I agree, I also have four kids and a big split in their ages so I am more relaxed than I was when my girls were little but they still have to bathe, and this little guy is what I would consider beyond regular kid dirty.

To me it's just really borderline. My dd has talked to his brother, he seems to try to take care of him too but he's a 14 year old boy in a new school, he's got a life too. I just don't get it. I honestly wonder if there's a substance abuse issue because she seems to really care for all the kids and seems to want to take care of them, just doens't seem to be getting it done. If it had happened two or three times, I might think less about it but it happens a minimum of once a week. Not necessarily him coming to our house, sometimes he ends up at one of the parks and someone goes looking for him.

I've tried to talk to the little guy but I don't even think he's quite four. I always ask him if his mom knows where he is when he comes over and he says yes. He's also asked my 13 yo to have sex with him, but almost four year olds can say things they have overheard without really knowing what they mean...


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## ErikaG (Nov 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MSUmama* 

I've tried to talk to the little guy but I don't even think he's quite four. I always ask him if his mom knows where he is when he comes over and he says yes. He's also asked my 13 yo to have sex with him, but almost four year olds can say things they have overheard without really knowing what they mean...

Okay, that last sentence really jumped out at me. I'm a social worker, and thus a mandated reporter. And if I had a situation like that, I'd have big red flags up.

You're absolutely right that four year olds can repeat things they overhear without knowing what they mean, but the problem is determining whether it really is that. And that's not easy to do unless you know what to look for and what kind of follow up questions to ask.

I hate to jump too quickly to "Call CPS" but between the mention of concern about a substance abuse issue, asking your 13 year old to have sex, and the lack of supervision, unless you're in a position to figure out that the children really aren't in danger (and it doesn't sound like you are) then it may be a good time to say "this is beyond my scope of knowledge, I need to ask someone who knows how to deal with it."


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## harmonyhobbit (Sep 16, 2008)

Definitely call CPS. This child is chronicly unwashed and unsupervised. Mother is not responsive. All of that together is CPS worthy.


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## mischievium (Feb 9, 2003)

I would call CPS. You don't have to know what exactly isn't right in a situation to call-- it's CPS's job to figure out what is going on in the home that's resulting in an unkempt 3-4 yo roaming the streets without shoes. And, I have to agree, the comment about asking your 13 yo to have sex is a red flag-- it could just be something he heard, or it could mean something more. Again, I would call CPS and let them investigate.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

I agree that a call to CPS is needed. The only other thing that I could think of if you are really reluctant to do that, is one day when he is playing at the school alone, call the police and report an unattended preschooler at the middle school.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Do you not have her phone number? Maybe if you are a real PITA about calling her whenever you see him she will make more of an effort. I wouldn't just let him in to play without calling her. I also wouldn't take him home ... that's her job.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

I would call CPS.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

Could you try a firendly scare tactic? Like, "It's great how the kids look out for each oter here, but did you hear about that [convicted felon, unleashed dog, whatever] that wanders around sometimes?" Or something....maybe that's not the brightest idea....bt something to let her know that it's not safe. W had a little girl last year at my job who was the 2nd child out of 5...her older sister was 8, she was 7 and then there were three under four. she and two of the ones under her had special needs. So when she showed up dirty, with uncombed hair, clothing that didn't fit or wasn't appropriate, we just dealt with it. we assumed mom was overwhelmed. we reserved phone calls home for serious things, like the kids standing unsupervised at the bus stop a ways from the home. all in the same vein....."we know her sister is watching her, but we're worried xyz might happen to her."


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Well, the shoe thing doesn't worry me at all, and I don't think that's really an indicator of neglect anyway. I got barefoot purposely a lot (even when I probably shouldn't!) and my kids to do. Although I personally wouldn't do this, I know that some parents adopt a "let them learn" approach to wearing shoes. In other words, you don't wear shoes, your feet get cut, so you'll learn to wear them. Again, not something I would do, but I don't find it necessarily neglectful unless you live in an area were finding sharp objects littering the ground is an everyday occurrence.

As far as finding the child alone several times a day-that would concern me. Once or twice or even a few times a week, I would understand that. Some kids are *extremely* curious and mischievous and just take off. I have a friend whose son just took off on her in the the late evening and ended up at our apartment complexes' leasing office. Unfortunately for her the police and CPS were called, although she didn't do anything wrong really; she was out looking for him as she should have been. However, if it is happening constantly and the mother doesn't seem particularly concerned for her son's safety, then alarm bells would be going off in my head. Maybe she just needs a wake-up call? Whatever the reason, I think that someone needs to be called because this boy could put himself in real danger,


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## Authentic_Mother (Feb 25, 2007)

I personally would start making a record of it. Write down the times and what the child was wearing (barefoot is not good but as it gets colder - see if they are dressing him weather appropriate). Then I would find your local Department of Family and Protective Services. I would go in and take them the information you have on the family and let them do their investigation.
That is the best way. You can still be anonymous but showing up in person, I feel, would make them act quicker because they can see the record in their hands.
I have a 4.5 year old and I wont even let her sit on the front porch by herself much less walk down the street! And we are in a relativly safe neighborhood too!


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## Authentic_Mother (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErikaG* 
Okay, that last sentence really jumped out at me. I'm a social worker, and thus a mandated reporter. And if I had a situation like that, I'd have big red flags up.

You're absolutely right that four year olds can repeat things they overhear without knowing what they mean, but the problem is determining whether it really is that. And that's not easy to do unless you know what to look for and what kind of follow up questions to ask.

I hate to jump too quickly to "Call CPS" but between the mention of concern about a substance abuse issue, asking your 13 year old to have sex, and the lack of supervision, unless you're in a position to figure out that the children really aren't in danger (and it doesn't sound like you are) then it may be a good time to say "this is beyond my scope of knowledge, I need to ask someone who knows how to deal with it."

I have to agree with Erica - Im not a social worker but I have adopted through CPS (therefore had some training for fostering) and have been an EMT. If a child says something like that it needs to be followed up on. And make sure YOU do not ask further questions about the sex thing either. You may just be trying to get more info but if things are asked wrongly it could have him saying things that he doesnt mean. Leave it to the professionals!
You are a great neighborhood mother to be concerned and you are doing nothing wrong by reporting. I know there is that slight hesitation of feeling guilty but you are now that child's advocate! (((hugs))) mama


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MSUmama* 
He's also asked my 13 yo to have sex with him, but almost four year olds can say things they have overheard without really knowing what they mean...

if the kid saying hadnt bothered you, you wouldnt have thought to tell us about it. that means your gut is telling you something is wrong.

call CPS. they will go over and check it out. if something bad was going on and you didnt call even though you had seen the red flags, you would feel real bad. if you call and it is nothing, then you will have peace of mind. trust your gut.


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionessMom* 
if the kid saying hadn't bothered you, you wouldn't have thought to tell us about it. that means your gut is telling you something is wrong.

call CPS. they will go over and check it out. if something bad was going on and you didn't call even though you had seen the red flags, you would feel real bad. if you call and it is nothing, then you will have peace of mind. trust your gut.


You are right...I am so struggling with this but my gut is screaming that something is not right...

I work with and sit on committees with many of the local agencies, including DHS (cps here in MI) workers. I'm a home visitor, I've had all of the training too, but I am not a mandated reporter. In fact, if she were a client, I'd have to go through a whole process to have it reported. That's supposed to help keep the home visiting programs "user friendly".

Several years ago I ended up testifying against a friend/neighbor (we've since moved) who'd begun using drugs. She lost custody and the judge cited my testimony as being the deciding factor. Everything I said was factual but I still helped take a little girl away from her mommy and yeah, that gets to me. The reason I mentioned suspecting substance abuse in this case is the similarities I see. Mom obviously loves the kids by the way she talks but can't provide basic care and seems to be pretending that's not the case. She always asks me if had shoes on when he came, he NEVER wears shoes! I once took him home en route to the park to get shoes and he couldn't even find a matching pair!

Mom works at a local chain restaurant. Not fast food but not anything high end either. I know what their rent is and I would guess she's got to already have a case worker unless she gets great child support.

One of the reasons I'm hesitant is that I know a lot of the foster system in our area and they may just be better off at home. No offense to anyone here who fosters, there are some amazing people in this world who do wonderful things with kids who need them. Unfortunately there are also those who see it as a paycheck.

I don't really feel like I have a choice. Thanks for everyone's opinions. I just hate to feel like I am judging someone. I kept telling myself she just has a different approach than I do, but he's not safe, and neither is the 5 year old little girl. I'm with the mama who doesn't let the 4 1/2 yo sit on the porch alone. Our back yard is fenced and our almost 4 yo ds can't even go out there alone. He may not be able to wander off but he could still get hurt...or stung by a bee...or bitten by a squirell... I JUST started letting my 13 yo go to the football games at the school by herself, and you can see the field, and the score, from our backyard!


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## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

It's the wandering that bothers me.
I'd tell her that, if the cops drive by and see him, she could get in trouble and have CPS called on her. Try to say it in a friendly way. See if that gets the message home that this is really a Big Deal.


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## Beeblebrox (Apr 6, 2005)

With all that new info, I agree with everyone else.


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## tintal (Oct 19, 2006)

Tell the mother that you are worried about him. Honestly being dirty and not wearing shoes is not abuse. Wandering around is dangerous but she does come looking for him. I personally would talk to her before I would report her. At least give her a warning or something.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I'd call CPS.

I say that as a mother, who had to go looking for her shoeless 4 year old today!

Three things that stand out:
1. He's often unsupervised and he's beyond normal kid dirty.
2. His older brother "tries to take care of him" - suggesting that he is needing to take on more responsibility than he can handle.
3. He asked your 13 yo to have sex. That might just be a phrase he picked up from watching inappropriate TV. Or it might be more.

Are you judging if you call CPS? Are you perhaps doing something so that the kids in the family will be safe? CPS doesn't automatically = foster placement.

Does the family need help?


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## BrodySAHD (Aug 28, 2008)

wow, I have a 4 year old boy and even though we are a pretty relaxed family, I wouldn't let him wander around ALONE. Maybe with his sisters with him, but not alone. I don't like to call CPS On every little thing but maybe you need to have it checked out.


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MSUmama* 
Ok, I say neglected only because that's my opinion, I so don't want to sound judgemental here but I NEED advice!!!

We live in a ruralish area, we actually live in the county seat of a rural area. Our specific neighborhood is tucked between a large church, that boasts an attractive playground and our kid's K-12 School building, which of course has another attractive playground. There are only 5 streets in our little sub of small 1950's cape cods, very working class, very tight knit. On the other side of the church is a busy 2 lane highway. Hard to get to on foot and no roads that directly tie the highway into our sub but it's there...The road our sub is off of is a two lane road as well and while the speed limit is only 35 mph, it's still busy.

Over the summer, a family moved in about three streets away. The mom has four kids and I think her boyfriend lives with them. The kids are boys who are 14 and 11, a five year old girl and a 3-4 year old boy. My oldest dd is friends with the oldest boy. The mom works and over the summer the littlest boy would often show up at our house, with no shoes, and if he couldn't play at our house, he'd go on to the school to play, we live on the last street before the school. The neighborhood kids all cut through our yards to get to the school, which is fine, so he wasn't ever out on any main roads but still...
I thought it was because mom was at work and the kids weren't watching him closely enough.

Since school's been back in session, he's shown up at our home several times and about 30 minutes later mom comes looking for him because he left without her knowledge. Last time it was 10:30 in the morning and she was in her nightgown and said he left while she was sleeping!!! She seems nice enough but a) doesn't know a thing about me, and she was fine to let him play at our house, she's met my older kids but still...and b)he never has shoes on!!!

I'm back at work and we have a sitter than comes to our home. I relieve her at 12:15 and take my son to preschool at 12:30. When I came to get Chase at lunch today, the sitter said a little blonde boy came over with no shoes on and asked to come in. I explained briefly and said she too had seen him alone over by her house, which is over by the church. About five minutes later we were loading into the car to go to preschool and here comes two middle school kids (who had been outside for gym class in the grassy area behind out property) with the little neighbor boy. I asked if he had been at the school and they said yes and I asked if they knew where he lived and they said yes so I went on to the school to take my son to class.

I don't know what to do. I know my oldest daughter has seen the father of the two youngest children at their home arguing with the mom over the kids in the past. I don't think she would respond well to my talking to her about it. I just have that impression. I've tried hard to be friendly and she's nice but not very receptive. My husband has wanted me to call CPS since about mid summer. He's just always alone! I love our neighborhood and I know all the kids look out for each other, and him but anything could happen, you just never know. I wish the school had called the cops and said a kid had wandered over there today! It's not really helpful to just take him home over and over.

So, any ideas or suggestions???


I'd call CPS but please, if you must do that, be very careful, as this agency is not all there. As a matter of fact, they are very corrupt. See my thread at http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=974296 for more insight on how they ruined my life and others. Then, the decision is yours after you've got all the information you need.

I'd really hate for this little one to be traumatised. Children really don't have insured protection, and my heart breaks.


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Beeblebrox* 
The shoe thing, to me, is *no big deal*. It is not always indicative of neglect and is actually good for growing kids. There are many groups of people who intentionally go barefoot as often as possible. That does *not* sound cps worthy to me. Now him all over the place at odd hours is concerning and I would talk to the mom about that before calling CPS. Just letting her know that you are not always available or maybe offer to give her some baby proofing things (which she may have and he is just able to get through). If she seems confused be honest about your concern over his safety. If shes not receptive, then shes not. Then take the next big step.


I agree totally.

Yes, definitely definitely definitely do not, under any circumstance call because of the shoes factor. I live in the country and almost refuse to wear shoes a lot of the time unless the situation should call for it. Before I worked for myself, I even went to work barefoot. Think about that, please. As for the other thing, I'd be a bit worried.


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mischievium* 
I would call CPS. You don't have to know what exactly isn't right in a situation to call-- it's CPS's job to figure out what is going on in the home that's resulting in an unkempt 3-4 yo roaming the streets without shoes. And, I have to agree, the comment about asking your 13 yo to have sex is a red flag-- it could just be something he heard, or it could mean something more. Again, I would call CPS and let them investigate.


Yes, you could call, and the sad thing is, he'd get three to four times the sexual abuse in foster care. Believe me, about five of my friends could share that with you. I've heard heart-wrenching stories from them that would keep me awake for the rest of my life if it wasn't for my faith in Jehovah God. As I said, children aren't guaranteed the protection they deserve, and that is sad. Unless you have private arrangements to get custody of a child who is being abused, be skeptical. Ultimately, the choice is yours.


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## thisiswhatwedo (Mar 10, 2008)

the sexual comment really sends up some flags and I don't think a child that young should ever be left unwatched.
So my thinking is if you don't see the court system or child protection as being a good answer is there another way to get help for this family?
The mother is probably overwhelmed and may need some help and some guidance. Are you sure that the child protection people would just remove children from the home? Is it possible they might get a social worker and counseling,find daycare for the child?
I am a poor single mom and the state helped pay for childcare for my kids so I am wondering if this little guy could be in preschool rather than unwatched.
I think she either needs a church or social services involved in her life, if calling the cops is the only way to do that I'd call. If there are other ways of finding resources for this woman perhaps go that route.
Also have you asked this 3-4 year old why he is wondering around with out supervision. If you say "who is suppose to watching you?" he may give you an answer that helps. Like perhaps "my dad but he's passed out or my brothers but they took off" you could gauge the seriousness of the situation
I think I'd call the authorities myself however.


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## Authentic_Mother (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Waldorf PC* 
and the sad thing is, he'd get three to four times the sexual abuse in foster care.

This is not true in everycase. It does happen - yes. I wont deny that - but we were foster parents and we have never done anything like that. Neither has the other 40 foster parents in our group. I know 3 people who went through foster care and thought it was the best thing because they finally had parents to DOTE over them. Making sure they had winter coats that went down to their wrists instead of 3/4 sleeves. Making sure they had books to read etc.
While bad stuff DOES occasionally happen in fostercare (which is absolutly horrible and disgusting and not nearly enough of them get prosecuted), its not the rule.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Is there a local preschool you could suggest to her?


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## The Harpy (Apr 1, 2008)

It is better that you call CPS and get this child the attention he obviously needs instead of a child molester driving down the road and taking him.


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Authentic_Mother* 
This is not true in everycase. It does happen - yes. I wont deny that - but we were foster parents and we have never done anything like that. Neither has the other 40 foster parents in our group. I know 3 people who went through foster care and thought it was the best thing because they finally had parents to DOTE over them. Making sure they had winter coats that went down to their wrists instead of 3/4 sleeves. Making sure they had books to read etc.
While bad stuff DOES occasionally happen in fostercare (which is absolutly horrible and disgusting and not nearly enough of them get prosecuted), its not the rule.

I too know some foster parents that are wonderful, unfortunately the system is just so overwhelmed...GOOD FOR YOU for fostering out of love!!!


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Ok, first let me clear something up. I am not a MORON and would never call CPS just because a child wasn't wearing shoes!!!

I talked with his mom on Friday when she called looking for him and let her know about some of the nosy neighbors we have. There are actually a few and I am surprised no one has called the cops yet. She didn't seem too concerned and said some man down the street had yelled at her about her son getting into his mailbox.

I haven't seen him since I mentioned it to her though so I am hoping she's watching him better.

I have suggested the preschool program at our school. She said she applied and it's full, which I believe it is, my son was one of the last to get a slot. I am going to suggest head start. We don't have one at our school but there are several near enough for her to easily drive him.

I've also tried talking to him about who is supposed to be watching him, asking if they know where he is, if he knows their phone number. He always says they know he's at our house and he doesn't know their number. I've explained numerous times that he shouldn't leave without telling someone and that he can't play at our house if he's going to do that.

I really feel like I've done everything I can at this point. I don't want to get overly involved in helping mom because if in the end, CPS needs to be involved I would have a REALLY hard time making that call. I'm trying to stay objective for the little guy's sake.

I also mentioned to a couple of the teacher's that I sat with at the football game on Friday night that the situation with him wandering over to the school alone to play was not unusual. They were shocked it had happened at all and I'm fairly sure that if it happens again they'll call the police.

Honestly, I am still unsure...the sex comment could totally be him repeating something his brothers said...or not. I'm going to give it a few more days and take the head start information over there before I decide for sure.


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## Authentic_Mother (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MSUmama* 
I too know some foster parents that are wonderful, unfortunately the system is just so overwhelmed...GOOD FOR YOU for fostering out of love!!!

Yep, unfortunatly some dont do it out of the love of their hearts and do it as a paycheck. Those are the ones you have to be afraid of


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Authentic_Mother* 
Yep, unfortunatly some dont do it out of the love of their hearts and do it as a paycheck. Those are the ones you have to be afraid of










Yes, that is all that I've seen. Social workers anxious to get into people's business when there is nothing wrong and ship out the kids all because of some subsidized payments that will be received. Everyone gains something out of this corruptness except the parents, who've lost their beloved, and the traumatized children who have been ripped away from what was familiar to them.

All too often, I've seen the horrible side. All too often, i've seen them doctor things up to fit their story. All too often, I've seen children live in squalid conditions. All too often, I still have memories of losing my sight at the hands of DSS. I'm glad for those who foster out of love: however they are few, and the system also ties their hands so they can only do but so much. I've seen that happen also, when foster parents wanted to adopt three abandoned children out of love. Rather, the agency played around with the situation, and removed the children from the home of the fosterers making it impossible for it to happen. However, these parents are fighting to get those children. This happened in Texas.

There is just so little good.

Those who do foster out of love, keep up the good work. More of you is needed. Also, when necessary, don't be afraid to stand up to the system.


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peony* 
I agree that a call to CPS is needed. The only other thing that I could think of if you are really reluctant to do that, is one day when he is playing at the school alone, call the police and report an unattended preschooler at the middle school.

I'm kind of thinking this might be a better way to go. Otherwise, what all would you have to say to CPS to get them to act? It seems like it would be preferable for the actions to speak for themselves, and the police make the judgment on next steps after talking to the mom and hopefully scaring her a little bit. But if you are calling CPS, wouldn't you have to give details of incidents and really prod them into getting involved? Obviously I don't know, I'm just throwing out my two cents. Good luck.


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## Ziggysmama (Dec 26, 2007)

You say you live in a close knit community but what I hear is a bunch of people judging and gossiping about a working mom with 4 kids. She says her 3 yr old runs away,why are you taking the word of a 3 year old that he 'allowed' to be out?? If you see her 3 year old out by himself, take the kid back to his house. Hes 3. Seriously.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

The shoes are no big deal. When I was a kid every kid in my neighborhood ran around the whole neighborhood barefoot constantly all summer. My parents started keeping flip-flops in the car because they got tired of us forgetting to bring shoes when we went out.

The wandering thing is a bigger deal but I don't know if he'd be better off separated from his family.

The thing about asking your son to have sex with him is the biggest issue and deserves a call probably to someone. Do you call CPS about sexual issues? He might have heard that somewhere other than home. My instinct would be to call the police but I'm not up on who to call about something like that. Luckily I haven't had to deal with something like that.


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## rahans (Feb 29, 2008)

_He's also asked my 13 yo to have sex with him, but almost four year olds can say things they have overheard without really knowing what they mean...[/_QUOTE]

This is a huge red flag. I actually just came from a safety class at DD's school and one thing they consistently reinforced was: "go with your gut, if in doubt - make that call. A call to CPS is not an accusation but a request to make an inquiry". It is not normal for a 4 yo to ask a 13 yo boy to have sex with him. Please do not stand back and do nothing. Speak with someone about this (even if it is not CPS - your church, school?).
Also, someone suggested taking a record of events - very important to do this especially if CPS does start an investigation.


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## thisiswhatwedo (Mar 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MSUmama* 
Ok, first let me clear something up. I am not a MORON and would never call CPS just because a child wasn't wearing shoes!!!

I talked with his mom on Friday when she called looking for him and let her know about some of the nosy neighbors we have. There are actually a few and I am surprised no one has called the cops yet. She didn't seem too concerned and said some man down the street had yelled at her about her son getting into his mailbox.

I haven't seen him since I mentioned it to her though so I am hoping she's watching him better.

I have suggested the preschool program at our school. She said she applied and it's full, which I believe it is, my son was one of the last to get a slot. I am going to suggest head start. We don't have one at our school but there are several near enough for her to easily drive him.

I've also tried talking to him about who is supposed to be watching him, asking if they know where he is, if he knows their phone number. He always says they know he's at our house and he doesn't know their number. I've explained numerous times that he shouldn't leave without telling someone and that he can't play at our house if he's going to do that.

I really feel like I've done everything I can at this point. I don't want to get overly involved in helping mom because if in the end, CPS needs to be involved I would have a REALLY hard time making that call. I'm trying to stay objective for the little guy's sake.

I also mentioned to a couple of the teacher's that I sat with at the football game on Friday night that the situation with him wandering over to the school alone to play was not unusual. They were shocked it had happened at all and I'm fairly sure that if it happens again they'll call the police.

Honestly, I am still unsure...the sex comment could totally be him repeating something his brothers said...or not. I'm going to give it a few more days and take the head start information over there before I decide for sure.

Hey mama I think you are doing the right thing. I've in the past let mandated reporters know what I know about a family situation and leave it to them to call if they feel the need to take the next step. I think at best remain friendly with the kids and if they have some reason to wander, whether it is from curiosity or neglect they know you are a friendly face. Sometimes that is the best place to be in.
good for you


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## MyZoeJane (Aug 13, 2004)

I'd talk very frankly with the boy's mother. I am not shy, though, and confrontation doesn't bother me. I would walk the boy home the next time you see him unsupervised. After introducing myself, I would say something to the effect of:

"I am not big on passing judgement on people, as I realize that we all do things differently and for different reasons. However, I feel like it's my responsibility to talk to you about the things I have observed little Jimmy doing because I am deeply worried about his safety....."

Then I would proceed to mention his wandering unsupervised at such a young age. "He's so young and although I consider this a lovely neighborhood, he is just way too young to wander alone."

I would maybe mention the shoes thing, but only as an aside... Such as: "I love to go barefoot just as much as any other, but you should be aware of the construction going on and that it has resulted in a few flat tires for me. I'd hate to see Jimmy have to get a tetanus shot!"

Then I'd put the CPS thing out there:

"Like I said, meddling in other people's business isn't at the top of my list of things I like to do, but Jimmy's safety is being conpromised and I'd hate to see CPS investigating it and making things even more difficult for you at home because someone will have to call for Jimmy's sake if he keeps wandering unsupervised. I understand kids can be squirrely creatures and they can slip away if you close your eyes to sneeze... is there something you can think of using that will help you keep him safely at home or in your yard?"

Then maybe she might mention that she could use some latches or knob covers.... She might mention that she can't keep up with Jimmy's growing feet... Maybe she will admit that what she really needs is just a break now and then and maybe you can let Jimmy safely play in your home for a few hours per week...

But I realize confrontation is not for everyone. And you might fear her backlash if she percieves you as threatening her. That's a risk I would take, though. I wouldn't just blindside her by calling CPS before giving her a warning that people are perceiving her poor parenting as worthy of involving the authorities.


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ziggysmama* 
You say you live in a close knit community but what I hear is a bunch of people judging and gossiping about a working mom with 4 kids. She says her 3 yr old runs away,why are you taking the word of a 3 year old that he 'allowed' to be out?? If you see her 3 year old out by himself, take the kid back to his house. Hes 3. Seriously.

Sorry but if it happens over and over an over again she's not doing what she can. Running away or getting out once sure, twice okay but over and over again? Just keep taking him back, seriously? And for how long?


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## Authentic_Mother (Feb 25, 2007)

Ya know, maybe if you did a sex offender search on your area and printed out the list and showed her just how many sex offenders can be in a community right under our noses that would stop that.
Especially with so many forclosures I have noticed our community has more offenders. I wouldn't DARE let my child play outside even just on our porch without an adult present. Cause you just never know!


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## feest (May 25, 2007)

anonymous letter " if we see your little boy wandering unsupervised again we will call cps"....mail it w/ no return address...
maybe that will work as the wake up call


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *feest* 
anonymous letter " if we see your little boy wandering unsupervised again we will call cps"....mail it w/ no return address...
maybe that will work as the wake up call

Anonymous letters are the lowest of the low actions I can think of.


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## Ziggysmama (Dec 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeca* 
Sorry but if it happens over and over an over again she's not doing what she can. Running away or getting out once sure, twice okay but over and over again? Just keep taking him back, seriously? And for how long?

If everyone is so concerned that the whole community is talking about it. Then yes. If the boy realizes that people won't let him come over and play at their house then why would he want to escape. I think its completely odd that no one has thought of just bringing the little boy back to his house.


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## MyZoeJane (Aug 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ziggysmama* 
If everyone is so concerned that the whole community is talking about it. Then yes. If the boy realizes that people won't let him come over and play at their house then why would he want to escape. I think its completely odd that no one has thought of just bringing the little boy back to his house.


That's what I'm saying! Someone needs to take the boy home and have a chat with his mother!


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ziggysmama* 
If everyone is so concerned that the whole community is talking about it. Then yes. If the boy realizes that people won't let him come over and play at their house then why would he want to escape. I think its completely odd that no one has thought of just bringing the little boy back to his house.

She's already said that two middle school kids have taken him home before. That's not to say that there weren't other times that someone else has returned him home.







I think that repeatedly there is a problem. I'm not saying it's all the mother's fault and she's neglecting him. Maybe he is a little escape artist and likes to sneak out the house. But if a reoccurring problem of him getting out and wandering around has been bought to her attention (and must have if she is looking for him at times) then it's on her to get a workable solution going instead of just I live in a safe neighborhood so someone will bring him home solution.


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## Ziggysmama (Dec 26, 2007)

It just seems like in the "close knit" community of just a few streets that no one is acting very close knit. The OP states she has talked to several different townsfolk about this problem but is hesitant to talk to the MOTHER. She states that a neighbor is whining because the little boy got into his letterbox. OH NOEZ!
THIS IS A 3 YEAR OLD.
Walk the 2 blocks and take him home. He is a baby.
An adult needs to take him home, not a middle school kid.
Hes 3.
As for a workable solution it seems like the mother is on a waiting list for childcare. What else is she to do? She works at a restaurant and has 4 kids, she probably doesn't have tonnes of money for a babysitter.
MAYBE some of the people in the close knit community can do her a favour and bring the baby home when he escapes. Or, i dunno. Offer to babysit?!
If you are really that concerned I think that that might be a better options that calling the police.


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ziggysmama* 
It just seems like in the "close knit" community of just a few streets that no one is acting very close knit. The OP states she has talked to several different townsfolk about this problem but is hesitant to talk to the MOTHER. She states that a neighbor is whining because the little boy got into his letterbox. OH NOEZ!
THIS IS A 3 YEAR OLD.
Walk the 2 blocks and take him home. He is a baby.
An adult needs to take him home, not a middle school kid.
Hes 3.
As for a workable solution it seems like the mother is on a waiting list for childcare. What else is she to do? She works at a restaurant and has 4 kids, she probably doesn't have tonnes of money for a babysitter.
MAYBE some of the people in the close knit community can do her a favour and bring the baby home when he escapes. Or, i dunno. Offer to babysit?!
If you are really that concerned I think that that might be a better options that calling the police.

I totally agree. I think that there hasn't been enough community intervention by perfectly capable adult members (forget middle school kids...that's ridiculous). A caring adult should take the child home and asses the situation. Ask the mom what she needs. IF anyone is capable of providing it for her then for goodness sake do it!! CPS should be for when the community tries and fails or is unable to meet the needs of its members. It doesn't seem much like the *try* part has happened yet. I would act before this family is further stigmatized.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ziggysmama* 
It just seems like in the "close knit" community of just a few streets that no one is acting very close knit. The OP states she has talked to several different townsfolk about this problem but is hesitant to talk to the MOTHER. She states that a neighbor is whining because the little boy got into his letterbox. OH NOEZ!
THIS IS A 3 YEAR OLD.
Walk the 2 blocks and take him home. He is a baby.
An adult needs to take him home, not a middle school kid.
Hes 3.
As for a workable solution it seems like the mother is on a waiting list for childcare. What else is she to do? She works at a restaurant and has 4 kids, she probably doesn't have tonnes of money for a babysitter.
MAYBE some of the people in the close knit community can do her a favour and bring the baby home when he escapes. Or, i dunno. Offer to babysit?!
If you are really that concerned I think that that might be a better options that calling the police.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajama* 
I totally agree. I think that there hasn't been enough community intervention by perfectly capable adult members (forget middle school kids...that's ridiculous). A caring adult should take the child home and asses the situation. Ask the mom what she needs. IF anyone is capable of providing it for her then for goodness sake do it!! CPS should be for when the community tries and fails or is unable to meet the needs of its members. It doesn't seem much like the *try* part has happened yet. I would act before this family is further stigmatized.

yes and yes.

It is much better to address concerns in person and be direct. Maybe the mom needs help or just some kindness from her neighbors. Regardless, CPS should be when everything else fails. Talking to the mom is still an option.


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## homemademomma (Apr 1, 2004)

talk to her out of a true place of concern/compassion- offer to watch her kids for her, have dinner and playdates with her. . . if you see her son out, bring him home!
i am not anti-CPS, but i think they are a last resort. if you get to know the family better, you might be able to help.

if you continue to see her son out, i think calling the cops to report an unattended child is pretty reasonable.


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

No shoes?!?! OMG. Seriously, my 4 year old NEVER wears shoes. I actually keep a pair in the car, because I know she will not put them on in the house before we go. I have to threaten her when we go into a store... "Put your shoes on, or you can not go in". She usually puts the shoes on







(but they are off again as soon as we're back in the car)

If this is such a close-nit community as you say, I'm sure someone would be willing to babysit for this mother who is trying her best to support her children. Instead of calling cps, try befriending the mom and talking to her about the situation (not your neighbors or us.. _her_)


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ziggysmama* 
If everyone is so concerned that the whole community is talking about it. Then yes. If the boy realizes that people won't let him come over and play at their house then why would he want to escape. I think its completely odd that no one has thought of just bringing the little boy back to his house.

Ok, did you read any of my posts? MANY people have taken him home, including STUDENTS who had to LEAVE their gym class to do so! Seriously, did you just get some sense of what the thead was about and go with your own ideas?

I don't know where I wrote that the whole community is talking about it. If I said that, I gave the wrong idea. This is NOT a gossipish area. There is concern, yes. Mostly from the older kids.

I already tried the "nosy neighbors could call" with her. Zero concern, and this was in a conversation we had while she was once again looking for him.

AGAIN with the shoes, I NEVER said no shoes was a reason to freak out, I said it was part of the ENTIRE picture!!!

As far as this being a tight community, yes it is. I think that's part of the reason a lot of neighbors are just looking out for the boy and overlooking that there may be a bigger issue here.

We live between a school and a church there are NO registered sex offenders in the subdivision, but thanks for the suggestion.

The past few days have been great, he's been clean, had on a shoes and coat, since it's cold here that IS important. Then tonight, he showed up around 7:30, DS was in the tub and I was nursing so my dd told him he could play tomorrow and to go home.

His 5 yo sister and 11 and 14 yo brothers were at the school as his sister is participating in junior cheer camp this week in the evenings. About 40 minutes after he left, his 14 yo brother came over in a panic looking for him. He said he thought his mom's boyfriend was at their house so when the little guy came over to the school he sent him home. It was pitch black at this time of night, and had been for about 20 minutes.

I grabbed my two little ones out of the tub, threw them in jammies without even putting on dipes and put them in the car to go looking. My 13 yo took a few neighbor kids and they set out to check the parks on foot. He was dressed all in black, I panicked and drove around with my brights on terrified I'd find him on the side of the road, he's hood high and it's dark, to me that's a recipe for disaster. I can't ever recall feeling that kind of pure panic.

After checking the neighborhood, I drove over to the high school parking lot. My oldest dd is a cheerleader and teaching at the junior camp. The coach and a few others were out in the parking lot. They said my dd had found a little boy in the parking lot and they were already walking home. My kids walk through the grassy area behind our house so I didn't see her from the road.

Supposedly mom's bf was supposed to be watching him, but he wasn't at the house. When I first started looking I stopped one of the groups of kids out looking for him where his mom was, they said work. His sister was in that group and asked me to "help her find her family", telling me her brother and her mom's boyfriend were missing. A 5 year old shouldn't have to say things like that!

When I went looking for my 13 yo to tell her we'd found him, I stopped in the street where his brothers and he and his sister and several neighbor kids were walking and asked the 14 yo to have his mom call me tomorrow. He looked upset but said he would.

I am just going to have a very frank conversation with her about my concern. I have already offered some resources but I am going to try again. Michigan just changed how they calculate foodstamps, including more child care payments than they used to. That may help her off set the cost of child care. I really wish she'd put him in head start and I am going to talk to her about that again. I am going to take her the applications and offer to take them in for her if she needs me to, even though I'm not really supposed to do that.

If this ever happens again, I will not only call the police, but also CPS, and I will personally make sure there is a complete investigation. I can't even explain the look on his 14 yo brother's face tonight. No kid should have that much responsibility for his siblings.

I do get it. I have four kids. My husband and I work opposite each other to help ease the burden on our older kids because we won't do traditional daycare and can't afford all day home care. ALL of my breastfeeding clients are low income, struggling moms and families. I really do get how hard it is. I also get that this child is not being taken care of the way he needs to be and I really don't give a damn what his mom's excuse it. There isn't a sufficent excuse for allowing your child to be put in harms way. Repeatedly wandering around alone is being put in harms way for a three or four year old.

Some of the posters here may think I am being judgemental and gossiping, and that's just fine. I almost threw up when I couldn't find him tonight. I dropped an f bomb in front of my daughter's cheerleading coach without even realizing it and I went home and cried when we found him. Until you've been in a situation like this, you have no idea.

There is no room for polite when a child's safety is at risk. Thank you, all of you who clearly didn't read the entire thread and jumped on some bizarre bandwagon, enough to get under my skin. You just reminded me of that.


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## bczmama (Jan 30, 2006)

MSUmama -- you are doing exactly the right thing. You should not have to feel both responsible and terrified for this child's safety all the time.

I think its clear your community is close-knit because people are noticing and paying attention to the situation. I've certainly lived in places where neighbors were so isolated from one another that they wouldn't have even seen what was going on.

However, it is unfair on the part of the mother to expect the community (however close-knit) to assume responsibility for the safety of her child.


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## Freefromitall (Sep 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ziggysmama* 
It just seems like in the "close knit" community of just a few streets that no one is acting very close knit. The OP states she has talked to several different townsfolk about this problem but is hesitant to talk to the MOTHER. She states that a neighbor is whining because the little boy got into his letterbox. OH NOEZ!
THIS IS A 3 YEAR OLD.
Walk the 2 blocks and take him home. He is a baby.
An adult needs to take him home, not a middle school kid.
Hes 3.
As for a workable solution it seems like the mother is on a waiting list for childcare. What else is she to do? She works at a restaurant and has 4 kids, she probably doesn't have tonnes of money for a babysitter.
MAYBE some of the people in the close knit community can do her a favour and bring the baby home when he escapes. Or, i dunno. Offer to babysit?!
If you are really that concerned I think that that might be a better options that calling the police.


He's three. Three. Like you kept repeating. There shouldn't be a problem where someone needs to escort him home. He shouldn't be out unattended in the first place.


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## Authentic_Mother (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MSUmama* 
Ok, did you read any of my posts? MANY people have taken him home, including STUDENTS who had to LEAVE their gym class to do so! Seriously, did you just get some sense of what the thead was about and go with your own ideas?

I don't know where I wrote that the whole community is talking about it. If I said that, I gave the wrong idea. This is NOT a gossipish area. There is concern, yes. Mostly from the older kids.

I already tried the "nosy neighbors could call" with her. Zero concern, and this was in a conversation we had while she was once again looking for him.

AGAIN with the shoes, I NEVER said no shoes was a reason to freak out, I said it was part of the ENTIRE picture!!!

As far as this being a tight community, yes it is. I think that's part of the reason a lot of neighbors are just looking out for the boy and overlooking that there may be a bigger issue here.

We live between a school and a church there are NO registered sex offenders in the subdivision, but thanks for the suggestion.

The past few days have been great, he's been clean, had on a shoes and coat, since it's cold here that IS important. Then tonight, he showed up around 7:30, DS was in the tub and I was nursing so my dd told him he could play tomorrow and to go home.

His 5 yo sister and 11 and 14 yo brothers were at the school as his sister is participating in junior cheer camp this week in the evenings. About 40 minutes after he left, his 14 yo brother came over in a panic looking for him. He said he thought his mom's boyfriend was at their house so when the little guy came over to the school he sent him home. It was pitch black at this time of night, and had been for about 20 minutes.

I grabbed my two little ones out of the tub, threw them in jammies without even putting on dipes and put them in the car to go looking. My 13 yo took a few neighbor kids and they set out to check the parks on foot. He was dressed all in black, I panicked and drove around with my brights on terrified I'd find him on the side of the road, he's hood high and it's dark, to me that's a recipe for disaster. I can't ever recall feeling that kind of pure panic.

After checking the neighborhood, I drove over to the high school parking lot. My oldest dd is a cheerleader and teaching at the junior camp. The coach and a few others were out in the parking lot. They said my dd had found a little boy in the parking lot and they were already walking home. My kids walk through the grassy area behind our house so I didn't see her from the road.

Supposedly mom's bf was supposed to be watching him, but he wasn't at the house. When I first started looking I stopped one of the groups of kids out looking for him where his mom was, they said work. His sister was in that group and asked me to "help her find her family", telling me her brother and her mom's boyfriend were missing. A 5 year old shouldn't have to say things like that!

When I went looking for my 13 yo to tell her we'd found him, I stopped in the street where his brothers and he and his sister and several neighbor kids were walking and asked the 14 yo to have his mom call me tomorrow. He looked upset but said he would.

I am just going to have a very frank conversation with her about my concern. I have already offered some resources but I am going to try again. Michigan just changed how they calculate foodstamps, including more child care payments than they used to. That may help her off set the cost of child care. I really wish she'd put him in head start and I am going to talk to her about that again. I am going to take her the applications and offer to take them in for her if she needs me to, even though I'm not really supposed to do that.

If this ever happens again, I will not only call the police, but also CPS, and I will personally make sure there is a complete investigation. I can't even explain the look on his 14 yo brother's face tonight. No kid should have that much responsibility for his siblings.

I do get it. I have four kids. My husband and I work opposite each other to help ease the burden on our older kids because we won't do traditional daycare and can't afford all day home care. ALL of my breastfeeding clients are low income, struggling moms and families. I really do get how hard it is. I also get that this child is not being taken care of the way he needs to be and I really don't give a damn what his mom's excuse it. There isn't a sufficent excuse for allowing your child to be put in harms way. Repeatedly wandering around alone is being put in harms way for a three or four year old.

Some of the posters here may think I am being judgemental and gossiping, and that's just fine. I almost threw up when I couldn't find him tonight. I dropped an f bomb in front of my daughter's cheerleading coach without even realizing it and I went home and cried when we found him. Until you've been in a situation like this, you have no idea.

There is no room for polite when a child's safety is at risk. Thank you, all of you who clearly didn't read the entire thread and jumped on some bizarre bandwagon, enough to get under my skin. You just reminded me of that.

I think you have been more patient with this situation than I could ahve been. I would have had CPS out there that night if I could. Ignore those who aren't reading the whole thread. Do what you feel is in the best interests of that child. He needs an advocate and I believe you are it!


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Thanks, I needed that. I am going home now to hopefully talk to her. Her little girl is cheering with my oldest dd at the varsity game tonight, I'm hoping to pull her aside at half time and talk to her. I didn't get a call from her today


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MSUmama* 
Thanks, I needed that. I am going home now to hopefully talk to her. Her little girl is cheering with my oldest dd at the varsity game tonight, I'm hoping to pull her aside at half time and talk to her. I didn't get a call from her today









Good luck!







This is a very difficult situation that I am afraid can not and will not have a happy ending, but you have to do what you can to clear your own conscience and you are TRYING to make that boy safer. That's all you can do.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

I have a problem with a parent that allows their young child (under 8 especially) to go to another person's home that she has never formally met. I'm not sure about the shoe thing, but perhaps the kid hates shoes, can't put them on himself or just gets in a rush and runs off.

I'd be more worried about the mother not meeting you first to see what kind of parent you are. That's first and foremost in my mind. If it were me, I'd escort him back to his front door every single time.


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## Terabith (Mar 10, 2006)

This definitely sounds like a bad situation.

On the other hand, I let my 3 and 4 year olds play outside alone. I watch out the window; I go outside periodically, but I don't constantly have them in view. We live in a very kid friendly neighborhood, and there is almost 100% of the time an adult on a porch within 3 or 4 houses, keeping an eye on the kid aggregate. The girls have never crossed the (almost non traffic existent) street without an adult. They mostly wander between our yard and the little girl next door's house and yard. I'm not wild about them going over to the girl next door's house bc they watch Sponge Bob over there, but honestly, I guess I figure one of the joys of going to other people's houses is getting to do things you aren't allowed to do at home.

I do worry occassionally if it's wrong to let them play outside without constant supervision by me. But my gut says it's okay. And it does not seem to be out of line with neighborhood norms.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Authentic_Mother* 
I think you have been more patient with this situation than I could ahve been. I would have had CPS out there that night if I could. Ignore those who aren't reading the whole thread. Do what you feel is in the best interests of that child. He needs an advocate and I believe you are it!









I think all of those kids need an advocate.







Good luck, Mamma. Let us know how it goes tonight.


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

I am glad you've spoken to her directly and that you plan to do it again. I'm just going to ask that you come at her from a position of compassion and understanding when you do. I know you are probably frustrated and angry at the situation, and I know that something has to be done... but coming from a mom who has had cps called on her for something similar, I can tell you with pure honesty that I truly wish my neighbor had simply talked to me before calling the police/cps. I did get the help I needed, but I would have preferred a gentler way of bringing about that change in my life. I didn't need the whole police showing up at my door and putting my kids in a patrol car while (some of) my neighbors stood in their driveways staring. Maybe this mom is just overwhelmed. Maybe her relationship with her BF is difficult. Maybe she's dealing with depression on top of it all. Let her know you are concerned that cps might get involved if something doesn't change and that you would like to help. If you don't have the time to help her, maybe you can help her find someone who can. By all means contact CPS... not to report, but to ask them about resources for people in her shoes. There were a whole slew of programs that I didn't know existed that would have been very very helpful to me.

GL and hugs to you and yours and to this mama and her kids.


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## MadameXCupcake (Dec 14, 2007)

I understand your concern with everything and even saw your last post and agree with almost everything,..except the shoes.
Some children do not like shoes! I really dont think no shoes is a big deal I went with out shoes till school age,..then no shoes when not at school. I ran outside in the yard, on the street..

In highschool I would take my shoes off and carry them because I have always hated shoes. At 17 I went more than 6 months with NEVER wearing shoes even with going to stores and things! I just carried them with me and no one ever said anything.







. It ended when a mall security gaurd finally said something!









I just wanted to chime in that I don't think a little kid should be wandering around like that and it does warrant a call to CPS.. BUT I really don't think no shoes is a big deal and it really seems to bother you for some reason.

I dont want to offend just adding my POV.


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MSUmama* 
Ok, did you read any of my posts? MANY people have taken him home, including STUDENTS who had to LEAVE their gym class to do so! Seriously, did you just get some sense of what the thead was about and go with your own ideas?

I don't know where I wrote that the whole community is talking about it. If I said that, I gave the wrong idea. This is NOT a gossipish area. There is concern, yes. Mostly from the older kids.

I already tried the "nosy neighbors could call" with her. Zero concern, and this was in a conversation we had while she was once again looking for him.

AGAIN with the shoes, I NEVER said no shoes was a reason to freak out, I said it was part of the ENTIRE picture!!!

As far as this being a tight community, yes it is. I think that's part of the reason a lot of neighbors are just looking out for the boy and overlooking that there may be a bigger issue here.

We live between a school and a church there are NO registered sex offenders in the subdivision, but thanks for the suggestion.

The past few days have been great, he's been clean, had on a shoes and coat, since it's cold here that IS important. Then tonight, he showed up around 7:30, DS was in the tub and I was nursing so my dd told him he could play tomorrow and to go home.

His 5 yo sister and 11 and 14 yo brothers were at the school as his sister is participating in junior cheer camp this week in the evenings. About 40 minutes after he left, his 14 yo brother came over in a panic looking for him. He said he thought his mom's boyfriend was at their house so when the little guy came over to the school he sent him home. It was pitch black at this time of night, and had been for about 20 minutes.

I grabbed my two little ones out of the tub, threw them in jammies without even putting on dipes and put them in the car to go looking. My 13 yo took a few neighbor kids and they set out to check the parks on foot. He was dressed all in black, I panicked and drove around with my brights on terrified I'd find him on the side of the road, he's hood high and it's dark, to me that's a recipe for disaster. I can't ever recall feeling that kind of pure panic.

After checking the neighborhood, I drove over to the high school parking lot. My oldest dd is a cheerleader and teaching at the junior camp. The coach and a few others were out in the parking lot. They said my dd had found a little boy in the parking lot and they were already walking home. My kids walk through the grassy area behind our house so I didn't see her from the road.

Supposedly mom's bf was supposed to be watching him, but he wasn't at the house. When I first started looking I stopped one of the groups of kids out looking for him where his mom was, they said work. His sister was in that group and asked me to "help her find her family", telling me her brother and her mom's boyfriend were missing. A 5 year old shouldn't have to say things like that!

When I went looking for my 13 yo to tell her we'd found him, I stopped in the street where his brothers and he and his sister and several neighbor kids were walking and asked the 14 yo to have his mom call me tomorrow. He looked upset but said he would.

I am just going to have a very frank conversation with her about my concern. I have already offered some resources but I am going to try again. Michigan just changed how they calculate foodstamps, including more child care payments than they used to. That may help her off set the cost of child care. I really wish she'd put him in head start and I am going to talk to her about that again. I am going to take her the applications and offer to take them in for her if she needs me to, even though I'm not really supposed to do that.

If this ever happens again, I will not only call the police, but also CPS, and I will personally make sure there is a complete investigation. I can't even explain the look on his 14 yo brother's face tonight. No kid should have that much responsibility for his siblings.

I do get it. I have four kids. My husband and I work opposite each other to help ease the burden on our older kids because we won't do traditional daycare and can't afford all day home care. ALL of my breastfeeding clients are low income, struggling moms and families. I really do get how hard it is. I also get that this child is not being taken care of the way he needs to be and I really don't give a damn what his mom's excuse it. There isn't a sufficent excuse for allowing your child to be put in harms way. Repeatedly wandering around alone is being put in harms way for a three or four year old.

Some of the posters here may think I am being judgemental and gossiping, and that's just fine. I almost threw up when I couldn't find him tonight. I dropped an f bomb in front of my daughter's cheerleading coach without even realizing it and I went home and cried when we found him. Until you've been in a situation like this, you have no idea.

There is no room for polite when a child's safety is at risk. Thank you, all of you who clearly didn't read the entire thread and jumped on some bizarre bandwagon, enough to get under my skin. You just reminded me of that.

just so you know, I didn't jump on any sort of bandwagon. I stated my thoughts and they happened to trigger some defensiveness, it seems. I did read the entire thread before I posted and I still stand by what I said. To be honest, now even moreso I'm wondering at the purpose of the thread. Clearly I misread or misinterpreted something because I was going by the 'wwyd' part of the title. It seems like your mind is made up and this thread is more to just talk about the woman and her situation maybe? At any rate it doesn't seem like you want to hear different perspectives.


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## Dabble (Jun 14, 2007)

Oh my, I bet you wish you had never mentioned the shoes to begin with. I can't believe how many people have taken exception to that, even after you pointed out that it's not a primary concern, and just part of the whole picture.

You are doing great, mama, and good for you for caring so much for another woman's child. The primal panic you felt when he was missing means that you have taken him into your heart in the truest sense of community. The world needs more people like that.

Good luck to you in your communication with this mama. Be sure to ask her what she needs in order to do her job as mommy the best that she can.


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## Authentic_Mother (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lisa Lubner* 
I am glad you've spoken to her directly and that you plan to do it again. I'm just going to ask that you come at her from a position of compassion and understanding when you do. I know you are probably frustrated and angry at the situation, and I know that something has to be done... but coming from a mom who has had cps called on her for something similar, I can tell you with pure honesty that I truly wish my neighbor had simply talked to me before calling the police/cps. I did get the help I needed, but I would have preferred a gentler way of bringing about that change in my life. I didn't need the whole police showing up at my door and putting my kids in a patrol car while (some of) my neighbors stood in their driveways staring. Maybe this mom is just overwhelmed. Maybe her relationship with her BF is difficult. Maybe she's dealing with depression on top of it all. Let her know you are concerned that cps might get involved if something doesn't change and that you would like to help. If you don't have the time to help her, maybe you can help her find someone who can. By all means contact CPS... not to report, but to ask them about resources for people in her shoes. There were a whole slew of programs that I didn't know existed that would have been very very helpful to me.

GL and hugs to you and yours and to this mama and her kids.

Unfortunatly, most of the time they will not offer their services UNLESS a report has been made. I tried to get my neighbor across the street some assistance (she is a grandmother and has 3 grandkids living with her. One of them has some severe behavioral issues and she is constantly out on her porch trying to find him and/or having neighbors complain because he steals our mail). She loves the kids and provides for their needs - but there is a little bit beyond what she can do by herself in regards to the boy (I would help but I felt he could be a danger to my child). The kids finally moved back with their father and it went out of our hands anyway. But its sad that when a parent is trying to do the best they can and are reaching out for help from agencies like CPS that they wont do it unless they basically go in there and tell them that they cannot parent at all


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chimpmandee* 
oh my, i bet you wish you had never mentioned the shoes to begin with. I can't believe how many people have taken exception to that, even after you pointed out that it's not a primary concern, and just part of the whole picture.

You are doing great, mama, and good for you for caring so much for another woman's child. The primal panic you felt when he was missing means that you have taken him into your heart in the truest sense of community. The world needs more people like that.

Good luck to you in your communication with this mama. Be sure to ask her what she needs in order to do her job as mommy the best that she can.

ita!


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Authentic_Mother* 
Unfortunatly, most of the time they will not offer their services UNLESS a report has been made. I tried to get my neighbor across the street some assistance (she is a grandmother and has 3 grandkids living with her. One of them has some severe behavioral issues and she is constantly out on her porch trying to find him and/or having neighbors complain because he steals our mail). She loves the kids and provides for their needs - but there is a little bit beyond what she can do by herself in regards to the boy (I would help but I felt he could be a danger to my child). The kids finally moved back with their father and it went out of our hands anyway. But its sad that when a parent is trying to do the best they can and are reaching out for help from agencies like CPS that they wont do it unless they basically go in there and tell them that they cannot parent at all









Honestly, I still believe it is better to explore that option before calling CPS.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Sorry I haven't read pages 2-4 but

1) you have seriously got to get over the shoe thing. this in no way indicates bad parenting. good grief. not everyone is hung up on shoes. I am barefoot all the time and am perfectly happy to let my kids run all over the world barefoot.

2) i really don't think he sounds all that neglected. he could perhaps use some closer supervision but I hardly think this is something social services needs to get involved with.

but then I live in the hood . . . my bar is pretty low. kids are running all over the place and doing things i am uncomfortable with but no one has ever gotten hurt.


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Ok, I started this thread because I was originally fearful that I was being overly critical of a parenting style that is different than mine. NOT TO GOSSIP. I truly don't have the time for that kind of garbage. I DO want everyone's perspective but I've valued the opinons of those who've taken all of the information into account and written their own thoughts and ideas more than those who took a few pieces of the puzzle out of context and waved them around accusing me of just gossiping about this woman and/or got on my case about not helping her enough.

Over the course of this thread, new incidents have happened and yes, that coupled with many level headed responses here have caused me to decide to both talk to her directly and get CPS involved. I want to help this woman and her children, ok, more her children as I don't have a TON of compassion for mamas who make themselves look "done up" while their kids run around dirty and in clothes that are too small or for the wrong season. Flame me if you will, I am entitled to personal opinions and that happens to be one. Still, every conversation I have had with her and will have with her is from a place of compassion. I had two kids and was living alone in Germany, with my husband deployed to Bosnia by the time I was 19. I don't have supportive, or even nice, extended family. I'm not some privledged suburban housewife sitting around judging other mamas.

If I wanted to cause trouble, gossip or make her look bad, why would I do it on a board where no one knows either of us? That's stupid. I asked WWYD here for objective opinions, and for the most part, got many helpful ones, so thank you!!!

In any event, I made her a folder full of the resources she can use. I also talked to my supervisor and briefly explained the situation. Because I am a home visitor, that would be the procedure if she were a client. My supervisor also felt is was a very borderline case. She suggested calling cps to at least make sure we've covered all of the county resources in the packet I put together. I did, and they wanted more infomation and I think I ticked off the worker because I refused. She tried to lay some professional obligation guilt on me and I told her I felt comfortable with the way I am handling this, which is a total lie but I am not ready to take that leap. I did see the mom at the game on Friday but she was busy so I just excitedly told her I had some great information on getting the little guy in preschool and to please call me over the weekend. She looked shocked and said she would and I didn't hear from her. Friday I got some really bad news about my oldest dd's health so I didn't get a chance to go to her house. I plan to this evening. Her bf was glaring at me so I think he knows that I am "butting in" and isn't liking it but I don't care. Still, he's kind of scary looking so I may take dh with me tonight, he's pretty scary looking himself, lol.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Wow! I'm impressed by your compassion, your concern and your working toward a resolution that is good for the kids and tries to keep them where they are. I hope your talk with the parents goes well! (Definitely bring your dh - scary looking boyfriends could be nice or could be scary!)


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## seawind (Sep 28, 2007)

OP, same as what poster LynnS6 said! I hope it goes well. Keep us posted.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MSUmama* 
Ok, I started this thread because I was originally fearful that I was being overly critical of a parenting style that is different than mine. NOT TO GOSSIP. I truly don't have the time for that kind of garbage. I DO want everyone's perspective but I've valued the opinons of those who've taken all of the information into account and written their own thoughts and ideas more than those who took a few pieces of the puzzle out of context and waved them around accusing me of just gossiping about this woman and/or got on my case about not helping her enough.

Over the course of this thread, new incidents have happened and yes, that coupled with many level headed responses here have caused me to decide to both talk to her directly and get CPS involved. I want to help this woman and her children, ok, more her children as I don't have a TON of compassion for mamas who make themselves look "done up" while their kids run around dirty and in clothes that are too small or for the wrong season. Flame me if you will, I am entitled to personal opinions and that happens to be one. Still, every conversation I have had with her and will have with her is from a place of compassion. I had two kids and was living alone in Germany, with my husband deployed to Bosnia by the time I was 19. I don't have supportive, or even nice, extended family. I'm not some privledged suburban housewife sitting around judging other mamas.

If I wanted to cause trouble, gossip or make her look bad, why would I do it on a board where no one knows either of us? That's stupid. I asked WWYD here for objective opinions, and for the most part, got many helpful ones, so thank you!!!

In any event, I made her a folder full of the resources she can use. I also talked to my supervisor and briefly explained the situation. Because I am a home visitor, that would be the procedure if she were a client. My supervisor also felt is was a very borderline case. She suggested calling cps to at least make sure we've covered all of the county resources in the packet I put together. I did, and they wanted more infomation and I think I ticked off the worker because I refused. She tried to lay some professional obligation guilt on me and I told her I felt comfortable with the way I am handling this, which is a total lie but I am not ready to take that leap. I did see the mom at the game on Friday but she was busy so I just excitedly told her I had some great information on getting the little guy in preschool and to please call me over the weekend. She looked shocked and said she would and I didn't hear from her. Friday I got some really bad news about my oldest dd's health so I didn't get a chance to go to her house. I plan to this evening. Her bf was glaring at me so I think he knows that I am "butting in" and isn't liking it but I don't care. Still, he's kind of scary looking so I may take dh with me tonight, he's pretty scary looking himself, lol.

You're a great neighbor and that little guy and his sibs are lucky that they ended up living next to you. I hope they get it together!


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
Sorry I haven't read pages 2-4 but

1) you have seriously got to get over the shoe thing. this in no way indicates bad parenting. good grief. not everyone is hung up on shoes. I am barefoot all the time and am perfectly happy to let my kids run all over the world barefoot.












Sorry, I know you haven't read all the replies, but all the responders *seriously* need to get over *their* shoe thing!!!!

The OP was stating the lack of shoes in the context of a very long string of possible indicators of neglect -- a very long string. She wasn't saying that because the kid wasn't wearing shoes he was neglected!

Obviously, the no shoes thing has made some people feel defensive. I, personally, love to go barefoot, but if people would bother to read the OP, you would see that the shoes were just one of the many worrisome signs.

IMO, the OP is a woman of great love and compassion who went out driving around in the dark looking for a kid whose parents can't or won't keep up with him! She's really trying to work out ways to help the kid and his mother. Let's give her a break and deal with her with the same love and compassion she is trying to show a possibly overwhelmed mom who needs some help. To be honest, it seems a lot of posters are bending over backwards to find benign reasons for the mom's lack of supervision of her very young child, but are bending the other way to call the OP a gossip and to ignore her positive intent!


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## emptytank2000 (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DariusMom* 









Sorry, I know you haven't read all the replies, but all the responders *seriously* need to get over *their* shoe thing!!!!

The OP was stating the lack of shoes in the context of a very long string of possible indicators of neglect -- a very long string. She wasn't saying that because the kid wasn't wearing shoes he was neglected!

Obviously, the no shoes thing has made some people feel defensive. I, personally, love to go barefoot, but if people would bother to read the OP, you would see that the shoes were just one of the many worrisome signs.

IMO, the OP is a woman of great love and compassion who went out driving around in the dark looking for a kid whose parents can't or won't keep up with him! She's really trying to work out ways to help the kid and his mother. Let's give her a break and deal with her with the same love and compassion she is trying to show a possibly overwhelmed mom who needs some help. To be honest, it seems a lot of posters are bending over backwards to find benign reasons for the mom's lack of supervision of her very young child, but are bending the other way to call the OP a gossip and to ignore her positive intent!

I totally agree! We should be thanking the OP for taking the time and energy to reach out to an overwhelmed mother. IMHO, the fact that a very young child is roaming unsupervised during all hours of day and night is reason enough to involve CPS. Especially since the mother has not been receptive to this point with the help and advice being offered to her. Good luck OP with a very complicated situation!


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## LenasMommy (Apr 16, 2007)

To the OP, I really think you are doing the right thing. There could be a number of things going on in the home that you don't know about. All the things you've witnessed makes me wonder if things are worse off in the home. I would have done the same thing in your situation. It is always better to be safe than sorry! I truly hope things get worked out


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

I hope your daughter's health is ok. I think you're doing more than you're obligation here. I hope all goes well with this child.

Lisa


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
Sorry I haven't read pages 2-4 but

1) you have seriously got to get over the shoe thing. this in no way indicates bad parenting. good grief. not everyone is hung up on shoes. I am barefoot all the time and am perfectly happy to let my kids run all over the world barefoot.

2) i really don't think he sounds all that neglected. he could perhaps use some closer supervision but I hardly think this is something social services needs to get involved with.

but then I live in the hood . . . my bar is pretty low. kids are running all over the place and doing things i am uncomfortable with but no one has ever gotten hurt.

Ok, I just noticed your location as I was scrolling down....forgive my ignorance but there's "hood" in Sioux Falls, SD??? Granted my idea of the "hood" is Detroit, no offense to anyone, I love the city and so wish the leaders could get it together, but we were stationed in KS for three years I think of SD being like KS, wide open and breezy, lol...and I would totally be fine with barefoot kids there!!! lol Just not in our neighborhood with HOUSES under CONSTRUCTION!!!!


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Wow has it been a bad week all the way around...

I gave the mom all the information I had an encouraged her to call Head Start. I don't think she did, one of the teachers is job shadowing me and I kind of hinted about it, she didn't know of any newly interested parents...

My husband takes care of our kids from noon on and he said the little guy had been by a few times, still without shoes and now it is VERY cold.

I was still perplexed about what to do, and I've been busy putting out my own fires so I never did call CPS to report her.

Tonight the 11 year old came by trick or treating. My oldest dd asked where the two little one were, as the oldest is on a hunting trip and we thought we'd see them with the 11 year old. The look on his face was horrible, he went on to tell us that their dad found out that mom's boyfriend smokes pot (IMO not the worst possible offense, but I've never done that so I can't be sure) and is a convicted something. If he's a sex offender, he's violating because he can't live in this neighborhood. I'm guessing it's felon. The dad called CPS and no less than 5 (which is probably ALL of our town's) sqad cars showed up earlier this week and removed them to their dad's custody.

I hate that this has happened. I'm glad they are in a better situation, if they are, I don't really know that. I just feel so bad for the two older boys and the little ones. I can't believe CPS rolls in with guns blazing like that, they must have been so scared. I'm just sick about it. That should not be standard operating procedure.

Hopefully they are going to be taken better care of and hopefully the two older boys will get to spend time with them. It would be wonderful if the two dads of the four kids could get together and work it out so they could see each other daily. Wouldn't life be great if it worked like that?????


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## bmcneal (Nov 12, 2006)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MSUmama*


Ok, did you read any of my posts? MANY people have taken him home, including STUDENTS who had to LEAVE their gym class to do so! Seriously, did you just get some sense of what the thead was about and go with your own ideas?

I don't know where I wrote that the whole community is talking about it. If I said that, I gave the wrong idea. This is NOT a gossipish area. There is concern, yes. Mostly from the older kids.

I already tried the "nosy neighbors could call" with her. Zero concern, and this was in a conversation we had while she was once again looking for him.

AGAIN with the shoes, I NEVER said no shoes was a reason to freak out, I said it was part of the ENTIRE picture!!!

As far as this being a tight community, yes it is. I think that's part of the reason a lot of neighbors are just looking out for the boy and overlooking that there may be a bigger issue here.

We live between a school and a church there are NO registered sex offenders in the subdivision, but thanks for the suggestion.

The past few days have been great, he's been clean, had on a shoes and coat, since it's cold here that IS important. Then tonight, he showed up around 7:30, DS was in the tub and I was nursing so my dd told him he could play tomorrow and to go home.

His 5 yo sister and 11 and 14 yo brothers were at the school as his sister is participating in junior cheer camp this week in the evenings. About 40 minutes after he left, his 14 yo brother came over in a panic looking for him. He said he thought his mom's boyfriend was at their house so when the little guy came over to the school he sent him home. It was pitch black at this time of night, and had been for about 20 minutes.

I grabbed my two little ones out of the tub, threw them in jammies without even putting on dipes and put them in the car to go looking. My 13 yo took a few neighbor kids and they set out to check the parks on foot. He was dressed all in black, I panicked and drove around with my brights on terrified I'd find him on the side of the road, he's hood high and it's dark, to me that's a recipe for disaster. I can't ever recall feeling that kind of pure panic.

After checking the neighborhood, I drove over to the high school parking lot. My oldest dd is a cheerleader and teaching at the junior camp. The coach and a few others were out in the parking lot. They said my dd had found a little boy in the parking lot and they were already walking home. My kids walk through the grassy area behind our house so I didn't see her from the road.

Supposedly mom's bf was supposed to be watching him, but he wasn't at the house. When I first started looking I stopped one of the groups of kids out looking for him where his mom was, they said work. His sister was in that group and asked me to "help her find her family", telling me her brother and her mom's boyfriend were missing. A 5 year old shouldn't have to say things like that!

When I went looking for my 13 yo to tell her we'd found him, I stopped in the street where his brothers and he and his sister and several neighbor kids were walking and asked the 14 yo to have his mom call me tomorrow. He looked upset but said he would.

I am just going to have a very frank conversation with her about my concern. I have already offered some resources but I am going to try again. Michigan just changed how they calculate foodstamps, including more child care payments than they used to. That may help her off set the cost of child care. I really wish she'd put him in head start and I am going to talk to her about that again. I am going to take her the applications and offer to take them in for her if she needs me to, even though I'm not really supposed to do that.

If this ever happens again, I will not only call the police, but also CPS, and I will personally make sure there is a complete investigation. I can't even explain the look on his 14 yo brother's face tonight. No kid should have that much responsibility for his siblings.

I do get it. I have four kids. My husband and I work opposite each other to help ease the burden on our older kids because we won't do traditional daycare and can't afford all day home care. ALL of my breastfeeding clients are low income, struggling moms and families. I really do get how hard it is. I also get that this child is not being taken care of the way he needs to be and I really don't give a damn what his mom's excuse it. There isn't a sufficent excuse for allowing your child to be put in harms way. Repeatedly wandering around alone is being put in harms way for a three or four year old.

Some of the posters here may think I am being judgemental and gossiping, and that's just fine. I almost threw up when I couldn't find him tonight. I dropped an f bomb in front of my daughter's cheerleading coach without even realizing it and I went home and cried when we found him. Until you've been in a situation like this, you have no idea.

There is no room for polite when a child's safety is at risk. Thank you, all of you who clearly didn't read the entire thread and jumped on some bizarre bandwagon, enough to get under my skin. You just reminded me of that.


When I read that, my heart stopped.







Even after I read you guys found him, I was still shaken up.







I'm glad you found him and he was safe.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LynnS6*


Wow! I'm impressed by your compassion, your concern and your working toward a resolution that is good for the kids and tries to keep them where they are. I hope your talk with the parents goes well! (Definitely bring your dh - scary looking boyfriends could be nice or could be scary!)


I would definately take your DH with you. BFs/DHs scare me anyway...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MSUmama*


Wow has it been a bad week all the way around...

I gave the mom all the information I had an encouraged her to call Head Start. I don't think she did, one of the teachers is job shadowing me and I kind of hinted about it, she didn't know of any newly interested parents...

My husband takes care of our kids from noon on and he said the little guy had been by a few times, still without shoes and now it is VERY cold.

I was still perplexed about what to do, and I've been busy putting out my own fires so I never did call CPS to report her.

Tonight the 11 year old came by trick or treating. My oldest dd asked where the two little one were, as the oldest is on a hunting trip and we thought we'd see them with the 11 year old. The look on his face was horrible, he went on to tell us that their dad found out that mom's boyfriend smokes pot (IMO not the worst possible offense, but I've never done that so I can't be sure) and is a convicted something. If he's a sex offender, he's violating because he can't live in this neighborhood. I'm guessing it's felon. The dad called CPS and no less than 5 (which is probably ALL of our town's) sqad cars showed up earlier this week and removed them to their dad's custody.

I hate that this has happened. I'm glad they are in a better situation, if they are, I don't really know that. I just feel so bad for the two older boys and the little ones. I can't believe CPS rolls in with guns blazing like that, they must have been so scared. I'm just sick about it. That should not be standard operating procedure.

Hopefully they are going to be taken better care of and hopefully the two older boys will get to spend time with them. It would be wonderful if the two dads of the four kids could get together and work it out so they could see each other daily. Wouldn't life be great if it worked like that?????


That's so sad that the children had to go through that that way. I, too, hope they are in a better situation. You have been *so* strong and compassionate.







I can only imagine how you feel having personally gone through this, when I was so upset by it and I'm just reading this.









I hope things go better for *all* the children involved. It sounds like they really need a turn.

I also hope your DD's health is improving. I will be praying for all of you.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Authentic_Mother* 
This is not true in everycase. It does happen - yes. I wont deny that - but we were foster parents and we have never done anything like that. Neither has the other 40 foster parents in our group. I know 3 people who went through foster care and thought it was the best thing because they finally had parents to DOTE over them. Making sure they had winter coats that went down to their wrists instead of 3/4 sleeves. Making sure they had books to read etc.
While bad stuff DOES occasionally happen in fostercare (which is absolutly horrible and disgusting and not nearly enough of them get prosecuted), its not the rule.

Amen. My MIL and FIL were foster parents for years. My SIL/BIL were foster parents until she got sick recently.

While I have issues with my inlaws, I will say that they truly cared for the children entrusted to them. They were very good foster parents. In fact, MIL still hears from a girl they fostered in the 80's, who is grown and has kids of her own.


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

OP, I think you are a really awesome neighbor.

I really think you did everything you could to gently give this mom a clue.

I'm sorry it ended the way it did, but I hope that little boy has better supervision and a better life with his dad.








s to you.


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## Kira's mom (Nov 30, 2004)

Please read this through as i added on at the end AFTER I read the few posts preceeding this.first I'd like to say that this boy is very fortunate to have you. he clearly feels safe at your house and therefore keeps coming back. i'd get a little more info before acting. There are always numerous sides to a story. At 5 i used to wander blocks away with another 5 yr old girl. we'd go visit certain neighbors and get cookies etc.We'd go outside to play and just wander. But that was 1966 and alot has changed. i assure you I always had shoes and were clean. The sexual comment is alarming and the visits are frequent. This makes me think home is not the greatest place and whomever is 'supposed' to be watching him is not. Listen to your gut. It sounds like this mama needs some help. if it is a substance issue she may be really hurting. If it were me and I were concerned, i'd try to talk to the mom more. I think I'd express my concern in a kind manner and see if I could help her to seek help. for some people it is very very hard to ask for help! i don't think you are being judgemental and I can also understand not wanting to just go and try to control or take over. maybe there are some other options in your community to actually help this little boy. It's nice to hear that there are kind people out there! Best, Hali OMG I am guilty of not reading all the posts. i just read the ones preceeding mine. I was just sick . Again i must say you are a pretty amazing woman. Caring and compassionate. sounds like your life is pretty full and yet you stepped up for that little boy. the example you are setting-no the example you are LIVING is what every mother wants to teach their children.


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## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

Oh, what a sad story. If you find out anything about how he is doing, will you let us know?


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

First, thank you all for the kind comments. I am not superwoman by any means and do not deserve the praise you are all offering, but I appreciate it. I am sure 99% of the moms on MDC would have done/felt/said the same as I have if ever in this situation. Actually there are several MDC mamas who know me IRL from local breastfeeding/parenting groups and think I am a raging <insert UA violation of your choice> and I suspect I am in the midst of fending off a coup attempt at the moment, lol. So thanks, it's nice to know not EVERYONE thinks I am the constantly negative, horribly mean person I've been accused of being, lol!

My own kiddos are really suffering, as are a lot of the neighborhood kids. There were several, actually many, Halloween parties this weekend and neither of my teen dds have been home since we finished trick or treating Friday night. There were scavenger hunts last night and all the kids were out but you can really tell there's a black cloud of sorts over all of the kids, especially the older ones.

Since my girls got home a few hours ago they've been texting a ton and finally I asked them to stop, they know that drives me crazy. Apparently all the kids are texting each other about their feelings and opinions about K and E being removed. One of my girl's best guy friends, who I think has a better head on his shoulders than most men I know, said he thinks the kids are worse off with dad but said he'd talk to my dd about it more tomorrow. I hope he's wrong. He also said he could smell pot when they went to their house on the hunt last night. Again, smoking pot, eh not a HUGE deal to me, I know lots of people who do my sister for one, and function just great but if she's going to try to get them back, one would think she wouldn't do it or allow it in the house for at least a little while! The 11 yo is still there too!

Rumor has it they are staying in the school district and I am keeping my fingers crossed for that. The 5 yo little girl (E) is in Kindergarten all day and often goes outside to play with my ds' pre K class, so I'll know if she's not there. She's also often in the window waving when I drop ds off at school. I am so hoping to see her tomorrow.

The kids are also starting to think there are 3, not 2 dads involved as it has come out since this happened that the 14 yo's dad also tried for custody a few months ago. The 14 yo wanted to stay in school here, he is new but well established and he's very well liked. Apparently he convinced the judge to let him stay. All of the kids are freaking out wondering if that will be revisited now that this has happened. I'm fairly sure it's enough for a show of cause hearing and I wonder how long the judge will listen to the 14 yo...


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