# Diaper reviewing headaches



## kasumi (Apr 25, 2003)

I've been reading reviews all over-here, epinions.com, diaperpin.com, raves on various mommy boards, etc., and I'm getting so frustrated!

I don't want to read a review written as someone is opening their fluffy mail. Why not wait and actually get the diaper broken in and used for a week or so and then post a formal review, after the glow and excitement of opening the package has worn off? Otherwise, we don't know how the diaper really performs!

I also laugh when I see a negative review of a diaper because the buyer 'had to use a cover over it' or 'my baby went to bed and 15 hours later he woke up wet' or 'these are great but you need to wash and dry them and that's a pain'. :LOL What did they think they would have to do?

I try to direct new CDing moms to these places so they can make informed purchases but boy is there a ton of non-helpful info to wade through.

That's my diapering vent of the decade I think. I love the dipes, the WAHMs, the CS, the other diapering mamas, just not the reviews that don't tell me anything.


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## 4boybarians (Nov 18, 2003)

I know what you mean. I've been posting here when I'm excited about my new stuff, but I haven't written a formal review of anything yet. We just switched to cloth about 2 months ago, and I was reading a LOT of reviews while making decisions. There's a lot of reading between the lines that needs to be done.

My absolute favorite (bad) review was one where the person rated Lansinoh lanolin really low because (I love this) it's lanolin and lanolin comes from sheep! :LOL







:


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## Basylica (Nov 18, 2003)

I read that review too! I couldn't help but think..."I don't like mcdonalds because they use MEAT!"

Like duh, obviously it comes from sheep! if you had a problem with that, it doesn't make the product bad!


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## 2boys1husband3cats (Nov 12, 2003)

I agree. I try to have my sons wear the diapers at least 3 times each (they wear the same size) before I post a review, because I want to be able to speak knowledgeably about the pros and cons for each. There are so many diapers that I would love to try based on pictures, and then I go to the reviews and there are 5-6 posts that tell me NOTHING that I can't see with my own two eyes.


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## LoriG (Feb 27, 2003)

I do a simple wash too.
I prewash on cold to get out excess pee.
Then I do one wash on cold, with 1/4 c. Wisk. I do dry in the dryer for the heat, though,
My dipes don't stink or anything, so it works for me! LOL


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## LoriG (Feb 27, 2003)

DUH!!!!! I meant to post this under the wash help post.


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## pageta (Nov 17, 2003)

The only time I feel like writing a review is when I'm completely irritated with something...and then I think I shouldn't bother because someone else might like it even though I didn't. I wouldn't want to rain on everybody's parade.


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## pb_and_j (Feb 13, 2003)

You have a very good point. I try to be as constructive as I can when I write a review and only do so after testing out the diaper thoroughly. If ppl want to rave about the fluff aspect of a dipe, they should email the WAHM directly. Let the WAHM put those comments on her site for her CS, kwim?


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## Muggins&Doody (Feb 5, 2003)

It's so true! Have you ever noticed that most of the diapers rated on the diaper pin have 5 stars? So I guess they're ALL the best diapers? On the Happy Heinys review thread at DP someone said that HH weren't absorbant.







Umm.... duh? You need to stuff them.


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## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

Here's my review vent: I hate it when people review the waterproofness of wool covers without describing their typical diaper, how often they change, and how heavy a wetter they have.

All of these factors effect the preformance of wool. IMO the law of diaper wool physics is that heavy wetters need thick wool or a thick diaper! I just cringe when I see someone describing their "thin" wool covers as being super waterproof.

I also wish people would differientiate between "thin" and "trim." IMO trim refers to the cut of the fabric and thin refers to the weight of the wool.


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## SpiralWoman (Jul 2, 2002)

May I join this rant?

I have given up on spending any time writing reviews bcz the one time I did write a really detailed, pros & cons type review, it got approved by the moderators & posted, but then the WAHM complained about it & got it taken down! I had mentioned a sewing flaw that wasn't important enough for me to have fixed, I was using the heck out of the diaper (every day) & didn't want to send it back to her. Yet the tiny flaw was there & I thought since the rest of the review was so overwhelmingly positive that I should, in fairness, mention it. Oh well. The WAHM actually contacted me & told me that she didn't get any business for weeks bcz of my review.

So... I don't do reviews anymore, I just say what I think right here where I have every right to!

I'm done, anybody want to borrow this?















Maria


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## detergentdiva (Oct 16, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Muggins&Doody_
*It's so true! Have you ever noticed that most of the diapers rated on the diaper pin have 5 stars? So I guess they're ALL the best diapers? On the Happy Heinys review thread at DP someone said that HH weren't absorbant.







Umm.... duh? You need to stuff them.*
:LOL Thanks for pointing that out :LOL


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## kindmomma (Sep 18, 2002)

Overall review.

I get most of my diaper buying urges from the "what are your favorite ___ diaper/cover" They usually hold links that I click and get in trouble.

I have found HoneyBoys to be great. I have ordered from 5 diff WAHM and so far they are all fitting great. My fav being www.simplygooddiapers,com
I got a custom slot for 3 there and the price was the best I have found and they came with doublers.
I also tried www.boulderbums.com

Hope that helps.








edited to fix link


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## Lilybet (Jul 19, 2003)

I think it's a shame that the very personal WAHM-customer relationship makes it nearly impossible to get impartial reviews. (I do think it's a good thing that the WAHM-customer relationship IS so personal, but this is an unfortunate side effect!) Reviews get hugely skewed -- in either direction -- by the customer's personal feelings about the WAHM. Usually you only see the positive side of this, because happy customers are more eager to help out a WAHM they've enjoyed working with (IMO) than unhappy customers are willing to trash someone -- usually something really bad has to have gone down for that to happen (which need not necessarily have been the WAHM's fault).

It would be really helpful if people could just select whatever star rating they feel comfortable with, but then be very, very specific in the review about what they liked and didn't like, what did and didn't work for them -- including details about the baby's body type, wetting and wear patterns. It's not in a WAHM's best interest, after all, to have a long string of 5-star reviews that say "So cute! I love it!" if these just contribute towards making the whole review process meaningless.

It's really too bad about what happened to Maria's review.







I don't see why there would be a problem with that. . . I would think a thorough, detailed review with pros and cons, as long as it was positive overall, would be so much more of an asset than a bunch of vague raves!

Sorry this is so long. This is something that's been on my mind a lot lately.









Elizabeth


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## JennInSeattle (Nov 22, 2003)

ROFL at LoriG! I do that too often!

As for reviews, I don't review often.. sometimes I think I'm too biased or inexperienced as a whole for a review. I may enjoy this cover now but if I've only tried 6 covers is it fair for me to rate it? Should I wait until I've tried 12? (you can see the numbers grow there, right! :LOL ) Anyway.. I have only had one set of truly bad diapers by a WAHM and I loved emailing back and forth with her. I never did do a review and still feel afraid to. I never emailed her back after I received the diapers (even though she was daily tracking my package) and she never emailed me either (even though she wanted photos of my son in them for her website).. *sigh*

Reviews are difficult.. oppinions are easy! lol


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

I agree that reviews at Diaper Pin may be biased in the positive direction-- I have a feeling that many of those reviews happen because customers write their WAHM a glowing thank you love those diapers letters, and WAHm asks them to go post on diaper pin.

I do think, though, that if you comb the various review sites (including here, Macspeno, and even WAHM's own feedback sites), you can get a feel for the difference between a really good dipe and a fabulous dipe. It would be hard for me to articulate the difference, but it's sort of like pornography, I know it when I see it.

I also think that the personal nature of WAHM sales can intimidate customers from posting even slightly negative reviews-- because, after all, that person knows who you are. Especially in a forum like this, where lots of WAHM's hang out. I have been PM'd numerous times after I posted things about WAHM products that were NOT really negative but did point out flaws-- the WAHM's were always very respectful about it so I didn't mind. And I'm not a person who is easily intimidated, but I think someone with less chutzpah may have difficulty with these kinds of interactions. But the reality is that every product I have ever tried has flaws, at least in the way that it works for me. I think it is terrible that a site (I hope not this one, perhaps DiaperPin) took down a thoughtful, honest review (as Maria posted, above) simply at the request of the WAHM. I certainly wouldn't bother posting reviews at such a site again. All of us, not just WAHM's, sometimes have trouble hearing criticism of the products that we put our hearts into making, but that still doesn't excuse a lack of openess to this kind of feedback. I know that I have often emailed WAHM's with very honest feedback, 95% of it positive and 5% of it negative, and it seems like all they hear is the negative feedback. Just like none of us is in a final, perfect state, neither are the things that we produce.

Ack, I'm rambling-- this is a topic near to what I've been thinking about lately, though, as I work on a fitted diaper review that will be published online. My goal is to help consumers make more informed choices about the diapers that will work for them, as opposed to "this diaper's great, this diaper's bad", but there will be criticism as well as compliments for most of the diapers. Probably nobody will read it, but I'll be prepared for an onslaught of reactions from WAHM's who may pick at comments out of context or be offended by my perspective.

Last point-- I think there needs to be more critical reviewing of WAHM products in general, and WAHM's need to be more receptive to it.

Karla


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## 4boybarians (Nov 18, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by lifetapestry_
*I also think that the personal nature of WAHM sales can intimidate customers from posting even slightly negative reviews-- because, after all, that person knows who you are. Especially in a forum like this, where lots of WAHM's hang out.*
This is too true. I'm currently in a situation where I'm going to have to post a negative review of a WAHM soon. The issue is customer service related--I've been waiting 6 weeks for a refund, and she's no longer responding to my emails. I have an email from her from a month ago stating that she received the return and would be refunding the money, but she hasn't yet.

It's a hard spot to be in. I don't WANT to hurt someone's business. OTOH, I feel I've been cheated, and other people need to be warned. But in a community such as this, where the WAHM may be both well-respected and well-liked, posting a negative review, no matter how deserving, can (and probably will) reflect badly upon ME.

I think people can be too quick to try to justify unprofessional behavior from a WAHM that they feel friendly towards. I like supporting small businesses and WAHMs, but I still expect a professional attitude. Business is business, after all. If I ever begin to feel like I've had to lower my expectations in order to support small businesses and WAHMs, then I'll quit supporting them.

Okay, there's my rant.


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## SpiralWoman (Jul 2, 2002)

Hi everybody,
well, I feel like I opened a little can'o'worms, & since I've gotten a couple of requests for more info, here is what I've decided to do.

I feel like I need to take a couple minutes & make sure that I am stating what happened in full. I am not gonna say who the WAHM is, bcz it is water over the dam (under the bridge?







) now. I also want to make clear that I feel the WAHM put the mods here in a very difficult situation. They had already screened, approved, & posted my review, but the WAHM pointed out that I hadn't followed one of the rules, & so she asked to have the review taken down. The mods also asked me to repost the review when all was resolved between me & the WAHM, but, honestly that situation got a bit out of hand & as I stated above, I was over it.

So, I've decided that it is in keeping with the original topic of this thread (what is & isn't useful to diaper consumers in a review posting) to re-post my original review with the identifying info removed. To be clear, I have no desire to review this particular WAHM, I just want to know:

1- is this the kind of review that is balanced, too positive, or too negative?
2- do you agree that I had an obligation to contact the WAHM before I posted this review?

here is the rule I broke that the WAHM used to have the review taken down:

quote:
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#4. Responsibility. As a member of MDC, you are to be responsible for your words in your personal review. Before submitting any negative reviews of a WAHM's business, customer service or product, please contact the WAHM in question to resolve the issue.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

here is what I originally wrote (identifying info removed)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have one of the PUL AIOs & it is outstanding. I love the fleece around the leg openings, nice & soft, no red marks on DS's chunky thighs. The trifold soaker option really works for us. Even tho DS is a very heavy wetter (he likes to hold it in & then "flood") I have only had one very lite seep thru up high at the top edge of the soaker. I have other brand AIOs that I have given up on & use as fitteds because they always wick heavily around the legs. Not so with this one! The AIO is bound around the edges instead of ruffley & I think that helps us as well. Not to mention that it makes it seem more trim to me.

I am thinking about ordering more of the snap in soakers. Too bad the xxxxx fabric is gone or I would be getting another whole AIO. The one I have now is xxxx & it is just beautiful. Lots more blues & purples than the swatch shows. The only thing wrong with it is that 1 tiny gather of micro fleece escaped the front stiching of the binding, but I really shouldn't mention it, since I haven't bothered to contact xxxxx about it, I've just been so thrilled at how well it has worked for us!

I have an organic sherpa diaper on order right now, can't wait to get it & see how I like sherpa. Also her prices are so reasonable. I am thinking about getting a fleece cover & a PUL cover to use on my fitteds. Or maybe trying a fleece AIO. I just love selecting my own fabrics, and so far the service has been really fast.

Oh yes, I also got a Halloween bib that was only $1.50! It is very absorbent & as soon as she has more bibs in specific fabrics, I am going to get some more. I wish she had custom bib slots!

edited to add:
hello~ I would like to add that xxxxx has contacted me about fixing the front gather I mentioned in my review. I think this is really great of her to be so proactive since, like I said, I hadn't told her about it. I also to restate that the little tiny gather in no way impairs the function of the AIO, it truly is the one I grab 1st! She has offered to fix or replace the AIO, I'm sure it could be fixed easily by anyone but me (I'm diaper sewing impaired, LOL).
.................................................. .................................................. ...

So... I hope I haven't broken any rules here, I really just want to discuss this since it has bothered me a little bit & the topic came up. I do not want to bash either the WAHM or MDC at all! This is home to me!
~blessings, Maria


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## 4boybarians (Nov 18, 2003)

Maria-

What I got from your review was that you were thrilled with your purchase, and that the workmanship was virtually flawless. Also, that the one flaw that you could find wasn't important enough to send the item back, or to prevent you from ordering more from this WAHM. Editing your review to add that the WAHM had read your review and offered to repair the flaw, even though you had not contacted her about it, just makes her look better. Nothing in your review would cause me to NOT make a purchase from this WAHM.








Now, if I may jump back on my soapbox for a moment...

Her behavior was, IMHO, very unprofessional both when she whined to the moderators to have the review removed and when she accused your review of costing her business. Based on those two actions, if I knew who she was, I would not do business with her. Actually, I consider both of those actions downright childish. (Again, JMHO.)

Had you contacted her first, the only change to your review might have been, "There was one tiny flaw, but she's offered to repair it." I don't see how that would change the overall tone of your review. It seems more likely that she would just prefer that no flaws were mentioned at all. To me, that's ridiculous. The very nature of handmade items means that nothing will be PERFECT. That's obviously okay with most of us or we'd all be buying things that came from huge factories. (Not that factory products are perfect either, but you probably KWIM.)

Anyway, I'll finish this up by saying that I have to question her intelligence in alienating a customer who was so willing to both buy more of her products AND say such nice things about her.

Just my 2 cents...


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## Lilybet (Jul 19, 2003)

I agree that the WAHM in question should have regarded Maria's review as an overall positive, especially with the edited addition. With the best of WAHMs, problems will occasionally arise, and how they handle the problems says a great deal about them. Any WAHM, with maybe a few notable exceptions, has the occasional "off" period, and just because one happened to coincide with Maria's review should not have made the WAHM think it was damaging her reputation. However, the fact is that criticism just feels sucky, no matter how constructive. If the WAHM couldn't get past that, I think she was strongly mistaken, but I wouldn't call her unprofessional or unintelligent -- it IS hard. In light of the note in Maria's review that she hadn't contacted the WAHM because the flaw wasn't worth bothering her with, I think the mods should've let the review stand; but again, I can see that they felt the need to stick with the letter of the law when they were called on it.

I think there's a difference between posting a negative review for bad customer service and a negative review for a bad product. Every WAHM product that goes out is, to some extent, a "tester." A well-established WAHM might be making a totally different product six months from now -- Tereson of FuzziBunz is a good example; she's constantly changing, updating, and improving her diapers. If a customer has a problem with the product itself, she should contact the WAHM directly because it IS a learning experience for the WAHM; the WAHM may well change the way she makes the product in response, and in that case, it seems a little rough to leave a permanent record somewhere of a problem that may have been resolved very quickly.

Bad customer service is another matter. If the WAHM refuses to deal with problems that arise, I think that's worthy of note in a review, because that reflects something that is not likely to change -- inflexibility or unwillingness to admit a mistake on the WAHM's part, and/or unwillingness to go to any lengths to please a customer who may have spent a significant amount of money on an order. This is something that potential customers *can* use a warning about.

The more I've thought about this, though, the more I've been thinking about the review process at my former job as a meeting planner for a mid-size corporation. We had a formal quarterly review procedure where internal customers were asked to give detailed, specific feedback, and the customers were asked to give areas for improvement as well as praise. I HATED this. I always felt like, come on, if I show up on time every damn day and give a good effort and work hard and do a good job, why do they need to look for improvement? What do they want, blood?? :LOL

Personally, if I had never encountered any actual problems working with the person for whom feedback was being solicited, I just refused to fill out the "room for improvement" section. But there were plenty of people who were eager for a way to get a little bashing in without fear of repercussion; and generally speaking, if you were easygoing and diplomatic (read: popular) overall, you were going to get good reviews regardless of how well you performed your actual duties. Kind of like real life. . .! So I take back what I said about the personal relationship between WAHMs and customers throwing feedback off. I've decided that unbiased feedback is 99.7% impossible.

Elizabeth


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## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

Very interesting thread, I consider this a very important topic to address.

I have been guilty of neglecting to mention workmanship flaws bc I was afraid of hurting a small WAHM whose's products I liked (inspite of the flaws).

In retrospect I have mixed feelings about this descision, on one hand, I'm glad for my restraint because a few weeks later she did some custom work for me at an excellent price. I have no way of knowing for sure, but I suspect she wouldn't have been as open to trying something new if I'd publically mentioned the problem.

However, several months later someone else posted a hard core rant describing the exact same workmanship flaw that I'd had. So now I feel that perhaps by not mentioning that particular flaw I was selfish and dishonest both to that WAHM and her subsequent customers.

I dunno... I think the problem is that so many WAHMs just have too few reviews. like if there are only 3 reviews then any single review holds so much more weight than perhaps is really representitive of that wahm's product .


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## Aherne (Jun 26, 2003)

Personally, I think wormanship flaws should be pointed out to the wahm in question and not posted on a public forum unless it is a glowing error that totally affects the product and you are unable to resolve the problem (or the wahm dismisses your comments privatly)

I think if it isnt important enough to you to contact the maker, then it shouldnt be posted for everyone else to read and possibly miss-understand.

Constructive comments are an important part of growing and I think because of the personal-like relationships customers have with a wahm, it can be harder to say something and even harder to accept. But I would rather someone have the courage to contact me directly and risk "hurting my feelings" instead of totally hurting them by telling everyone else.


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## Liam&Aiden'sMom (Nov 10, 2003)

I had a similar situation with posting a review that was responded too by the WAHM..........boy was it a mess. Anyway it was frusturating for me too and I tend not to go to the reviews anymore, only hear what my friends say about certain dipes.


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Aherne_
*Personally, I think wormanship flaws should be pointed out to the wahm in question and not posted on a public forum unless it is a glowing error that totally affects the product and you are unable to resolve the problem (or the wahm dismisses your comments privatly)*
I don't agree entirely. I do think that if the workmomship flaws bother you, that you should talk to the WAHM and ask for a repair or replacement. But I think that even that fact should be reported on a public review if the writer wishes, because even if the WAHM fixed it, sending out a second quality product to a customer that has paid for a first quality product is a reflection on the quality of that WAHM's product. Same goes for mistakes on orders or whatever-- these things still occured, even if the WAHM fixed it. But a WAHM does not have the right to ask customers not to speak publicly about their ENTIRE experience with the WAHM, even if it includes mistakes or problems that were completely resolved.

IMO, once the order leaves the WAHM's place of business, the customer has the right to speak truthfully about any and all aspects of the product or transaction. Problems with the product or customer service should be noted, along with their resolution.

Karla


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## Trishas Tribe (Nov 4, 2003)

I firmly believe that there is a VERY large grey area in this whole issue!! What one person considers a flaw may not be the WAHM's problem at all.

What if the consumer washed the product wrong or treated it poorly and they just want to take the WAHM for a ride?

You must treat a product with care...not drag it through every tribulation known to man! There has to be some protection for the WAHM somewhere. After all, they are here to serve, and every mom I have EVER dealt with has been more than happy to do that!!

There are flaws with every thing in life whether it is manufactured in a warehouse or in someones living room with their babies at their feet. I truly feel that if we as cloth diapering mothers want the priveledge of continuing to buy from WAHM's we can't treat them poorly. Most of them hardly even break even by the time they replenish their fabric supplies and such. They aren't out there to rip you off...but to offer you a product they have put their heart into.

If you choose to bash someone then yes... I guess that is your right, but if everyone jumps on the "critique the hell out of every diaper bandwagon" I can assure you that in not very long all of our babies will be wearing Fuzzi Bunz and MEOS because it won't be worth the headache for a WAHM to offer diapers to the community of mom's in search of something "perfect".

If I buy a diaper from a WAHM and the fit isn't right for DD , I am not going to ask her to change her product or give her a bad review. I will look for a diaper that fits better. That would be like telling pampers to make their diapers exactly to my child's build. Silly isn't it ...but it seems like that is what we expect.

I know that there are instances of people being truely ripped off by a WAHM but I dare say they are few and far between. This is of course just my opinion. I love my Mamas and I want to keep them so, I for one am going to be fair!!

The mother making my diapers is not a mass producer. I actually consider it a blessing that I CAN contact her to fix things. I can't do anything about that little dress that I bought in a department store that fell apart after two washes. The service a WAHM offers goes above and beyond any service I have ever had from a retail store!! Do chain stores offer freebies and fix their defects...no way!! We ask alot of these moms...and they deliver. They are after all first and foremost...MOMS!!

I am just curious as to something here. Karla, are you mainly reviewing the diapers for durability or for fit? I personally don't understand how one person can review so many dipes on one child. What fits your baby awful may be perfect on a child with a different build. It seems to me that it would take a "panel" to give a truly accurate review of any product.


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## Liam&Aiden'sMom (Nov 10, 2003)

I agree that we should be able to say how we feel about a product and their service....after all if I was not happy with something from a store, I would take it back. (you would be surprised what Walmart will take back - their policy is if your not happy bring it back) Now I am not saying be over critical. I just think if there is a problem, then we can all make our own decision on whether or not to make a purchase. When we see that several people have had the same problem with the same WAHM we can make our own decision, or on the flip side one problem and many positive comments about one WAHM we can again make the decision for ourselves. JMO


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## AndreaBash (Feb 20, 2003)

Quote:

It seems to me that it would take a "panel" to give a truly accurate review of any product.
I agree! But... isn't this really what sites like DiaperPin are all about? I can review 20 diapers and someone else can review the same 20 and we can get a completely different feeling. The end result is that consumers take the parts that apply to them and leave the rest.

The key is to write reviews that are detailed enough so that the person reading them knows whether your situation is similar to theirs. Saying, "this diaper didn't fit at all!" isn't useful, but saying, "my son is on the tall and thin side and this diaper had some gaps around the leg holes." is very useful for someone looking for diapers for a tall and skinny child.

Even if that part doesn't apply to you or to every baby, it should still be allowed to be said... because it CAN help someone out there. That is why reviews ARE like a panel of judges -- just happens that the judges aren't sitting in the same room.


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## SpiralWoman (Jul 2, 2002)

You know, I get what everybody has been saying & I appreciate this discussion.

I guess I think of writing a review as a more serious thing than just saying what fluffy mail I got or what new dipe I'm crazy about, so when the OP here said that she didn't get much out of reviews that are mostly just raves, I could feel that. I guess to me, when I wrote my review, I was trying to be objective & credible for the consumers who would read the review. I feel my obligation in writing a review is to them, not to the business I'm reviewing.

That said, in my little example, I thought I was actually helping the WAHM's business bcz she only had 1 review & bcz I thought my review would be respected as not slanted in one way or the other, KWIM? Now, apparently in her view I was dead wrong. All the more reason for my feelings to get hurt when she called me a problematic customer & that she didn't want me to order any more diapers from her. She definitely wasn't trying to rip me off, in fact she ended up refunding me for both the AIOs I had bought from her bcz she later felt bad about what she had said to me. Nor was I trying to bash her, or get anything free, heck I never even complained. I just called it like I saw it. But, needless to say, it got sticky.

Now I am much more comfortable just saying what I love, saying who's gone above & beyond to be good to me as a customer, & recommending what works for me & why. Period.


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## Liam&Aiden'sMom (Nov 10, 2003)

Are you saying that you don't feel comfortable writing a "negative" review? I had a similar sticky experience with a review for a WAHM too. I also had my feelings hurt and am discouraged from leaving a honest review again.


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## SpiralWoman (Jul 2, 2002)

hi L&A's Mom, yeah, I guess I am discouraged from writing "reviews" period, whether they are good or bad. See, I didn't think I was giving a negative review the 1st time! I guess no matter what I say, it can be misinterpreted & leave yucky feelings, KWIM?


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## Liam&Aiden'sMom (Nov 10, 2003)

I feel the same way about the review I gave....I am still having problems trying to get my refund, she even has had the dipes since Nov 15th.....but don't get me started. It is just a bad situation.
\I don't really feel up to leaving reviews either...I am almost afraid to. I don't want to have my feelings crushed again....or do that to anyone else. It is so confusing b/c I want others to know before buying, as I would like to know.







:


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## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Aherne_
*Personally, I think wormanship flaws should be pointed out to the wahm in question and not posted on a public forum unless it is a glowing error that totally affects the product and you are unable to resolve the problem (or the wahm dismisses your comments privatly)*
I see where you are coming from but I don't entirely agree with this. Any seamstress talented enough to make a product for sale ought to be able to recognize workmanship problems like uneven elastic and crooked seems. I feel that it is a WAHM's responsibility to quality control her product prior to sending it out. Sending diapers back take time and energy on the consumer's part so you as a consumer loose even if the product is fixed and returned free of charge


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Muggins&Doody_
*It's so true! Have you ever noticed that most of the diapers rated on the diaper pin have 5 stars? So I guess they're ALL the best diapers?*
I was JUST thinking this tonight! I was looking at the reviews for fitteds, and most got 5 stars on DiaperPin. I thought (a) people must be easy to please when it comes to fitteds or (b) these are not objective reviews.

I had such a hard time researching cloth when I first started because of these reviews, too! I must say, I have always been VERY thankful for MDC because I truly think it is a place where much experience and actual research occurs . . .sure, people like "cute," but this is the place where I learned about the science of diapering!


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## allformyboys (Jun 17, 2003)

Well I have been following this thread, and I really think it makes a BIG difference with a flaw, and some other major problem. It needs to be remembered that WAHM's are HUMAN (most of them anyway







) and while they do try their best to get a good quality product out to their customers, they are NOT mass produced by robots on an assembly line, your toddler may throw up in the middle of the living room while your making a product, your 3 yr old may put a whole roll of TP down the toilet while your cutting fabrics, your hand may slip a bit while serging. It happens with EVERY WAHM.

I had a customer that told me, she was buying home made/hand done stuff because that is what she LOVED, the slight differences is what makes a WAHM a WAHM, believe me they go way above and beyond the call of duty, those TINY flaws (that don't effect the over all diaper) are what makes a product PERSONAL and frankly your going to get them with ANY WAHM, some are just better at hiding them.

Karla has often stated that every product she has gotten has had flaws in it, that doesn't set off the light bulb? I don't think every flaw should be pointed out to the public, if it is something that bothers you, or effects the fit/performance of the diaper then yes bring it up to the WAHM. Otherwise I would chalk it up to LIFE and the essence of hand made items.

Personally I would rather have a slight pucker in the serging than a pampers any day. Not to mention have you LOOKED as closely at the mass produced commercially available diapers? (disposable, or cloth, whatever) even clothing, I seriously doubt you have, but let me tell you if you did, you would also notice these SAME slight flaws, hand made or not.

If you don't pick apart everything like this then why should you with diapers? I think WAHM's are being held to a much higher standard and it isn't fair. I know many WAHM's that agree with me. I have gotten 2nds from a few WAHM's that I HONESTLY couldn't find the reason they were seconds! they mentioned some serging flaw, or whatever but had it been on the shelf at Walmart I would have bought it for full price and never dreamed of returning it for the reason she sold it at cost.

I think we need a new review site, that supports pictures and lets people speak honestly without censoring. I am going to look into getting one started, but it would be a requirement that if your going to complain about a workamanship flaw you MUST have pictures or scans of the problem. I mean we all know some people are MUCH more picky than others, some are never happy and find flaw with everything, so the only way to judge for ourselves is to see what is being talked about.

I think this is a good idea either way, I mean we need an honest place to get reviews, and I know I would love a review place where people get to show off their pictures with their review, it would certianly help my shopping.


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## LoriG (Feb 27, 2003)

TRISHA'S TRIBE, I agree with your entire post.

Most WAHM's UNDERcharge for their items. It seems that consumers want a professional-grade seamstress product but they're only willing to pay about .50 cents per hour for the work.

I have many more opinions on this subject, but I'll keep most of them to myself. I think if everyone rates at a neutral place (like diaperpin), then that is a way to get opinions out there, on neutral ground, without having to be in anyone's face. And I don't think that one person's opinions of fit or whatever should be taken as the alpha and the omega of diapering --our babies all have different builds. Hence, leaving feedback at a neutral place would be the best for wahms and consumers alike.

Yes, I've gotten "imperfect" diapers before. But like I said, I know the wahm is barely breaking even. So unless I'm willing to pay $20 an hour for a professional seamstress, I'll just accept the items as they are, HANDmade items. Unless it's falling apart, then I'd say something.


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## Sasha_girl (Feb 19, 2003)

Quote:

I truly feel that if we as cloth diapering mothers want the priveledge of continuing to buy from WAHM's we can't treat them poorly.
I have to respectfully disagree. While I love the Mommas I buy from, we have a business partnership. I could not have my diapers without them, but conversely they would not be WAHM's without me. I live on a budget and I expect a quality product for the money I pay. I don't have the money to just throw away on an inferior product and then feel that I have been privelaged to do so.

As for reviews, I skim the "love these diapers" reviews and look closely at the "this didn't fit my chubby toddler well" ones. Unfortunately those are few and far between. I'm not concerned about stitches being perfect, but I do expect to get the same diaper as in the picture (a problem I recently had) and I want to know that the dipe will fit my children's builds. Also, I think that the ones written by people who misuse the dipes show themselves. When someone says "I washed my wool cover in hot water and after I got it out of the dryer it had shrunk!" I roll my eyes and move on.

Quote:

Sending diapers back take time and energy on the consumer's part so you as a consumer loose even if the product is fixed and returned free of charge

Quote:

I agree that we should be able to say how we feel about a product and their service....after all if I was not happy with something from a store, I would take it back.
ITA to both.


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## Liam&Aiden'sMom (Nov 10, 2003)

I guess we all have our opinions and standards from products we purchase. Having reviews where people can openly speak of their experience with a WAHM and their product is helpful to all of us. We can read and judge and make our own decision.


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## kasumi (Apr 25, 2003)

Wow! What a fantastic discussion!

Spiralwoman, ITA with this and I wanted to bold it so everyone can read it again!

Quote:

*when I wrote my review, I was trying to be objective & credible for the consumers who would read the review. I feel my obligation in writing a review is to them, not to the business I'm reviewing.*
We owe it to each other to post detailed reviews as consumers. Maybe then when we raise the bar for quality and CS and everything else, everyone will benefit-WAHMs will get more shoppers since we'll have more cash from not trying out diapers that weren't right for us, and we as customers will have a higher standard of product from WAHMs who have less glows and nore constructive and objective reviews. Hopefully then everyone wins.


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## *~*SewHappyNow*~* (Sep 25, 2002)

I apologize if this isn't poetic, but I heard something a few days ago about how these quilt makers traditionaly would intentionaly put flaws into their work to remind that perfection should be left only to the creator and no one is perfect.

If you want a handmade product there are going to be slight flaws and inconsistencies. WAHMs cannot afford to mass produce and throw slight flaws onto the "scrap heap"

Now someone said they expect a quality product and have a budget. Well, in all honesty, a diaper is to hold in poo and pee. If it has any other function then that its icing on the cake. I am sure many of you realize that to buy ready to wear clothing is MUCH more affordable than to have someone hand make them for you or to even make them yourself. No one knits sweaters anymore, because you can walk into any store, a TJ Max or Khole's perhaps, and buy a sweater for less than it would cost in yarn. So who would put any of their prescious time into knitting one







: There are people in guatamala, malasia, turkey, korea who are willing to make you products at less than a living wage in this country. Sad when you think about it isn't it? If WAHMs ran a factory in the Philapines than maybe they could afford "perfection"

Any review system is going to have flaws. There will always be people who are more critical and demanding. There are going to people who are more easily satisfied. I have bought many many WAHM diapers.. I have bought from maybe 40 different ones (just a rough guess) and I have found never one flaw that would have effected the products performance. I have found perhaps 5 problems that were slight ie serging didn't catch all layers, snap fell off. I'd say that is pretty darn good out of the 150+ diapers, covers, doublers, soakers I have purchased in my CDing lifetime.

Aside from fit and absorbency I have had relatively few problems with WAHM diapers in general. I would hope that when people expirience problems after owning a diaper for a while, like it fell apart after a month, they would report it in a 'post-review' or something like that...

that's just my 2 cents


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## 4boybarians (Nov 18, 2003)

Jumping back in here, because I still have opinions to state.









To me, the entire purpose of a review is to let other consumers know what to expect when they purchase a product, based on my personal experiences with the product. That means telling it all, good and bad. Otherwise, to me, the review is dishonest.

A flaw that may not be anything important to me may be someone else's biggest pet peeve, and vice versa. When I read reviews, I shrug off a lot of the info because it doesn't pertain to me and my situation--either the flaws that are mentioned wouldn't be important to me, or the other person's situation is too different from mine for their opinion to count with me. That's why DETAILED reviews are important. I pay particular attention to reviews from people who sound as if their situation is similar to mine, and to the mention of flaws or design issues which would drive me to distraction. Gushing reviews without any real information included are generally ignored completely.

Yes, criticism sucks. But anyone who can't handle criticism should probably think twice before offering their wares to the public. NO ONE, to my knowledge, has a product so perfect that everyone who tries it, loves it. So accepting criticism is simply a part of business.

Mainly I'm appalled by the notion that WAHMs should be put on some kind of pedestal when it comes to reviews. Don't get me wrong here... Yes, I appreciate the work they do, and I love getting hand-made products. I certainly don't go over each item I receive with a magnifying glass looking for things to criticize, nor would I mention things that difficult to spot in a review unless it could impair the funtionality of the product, or possibly cause future problems. But when I post reviews on any product, I try to be as honest and detailed as possible about both the good and the bad. THAT'S how I attempt to help my fellow consumers make decisions. If I review a WAHM's product, I'll treat the review just as I would any other product review. I'd be offended if a WAHM seemed to expect me to do otherwise.

Reviews are not intended to be "unbiased." Since a review is one person specifically relating his/her own personal experiences with a product, they are biased by their very nature.

I've made a lot of diapers in the past few weeks. I know how much the materials cost me (at retail, not wholesale), and I know about how long it takes my slow-sewing self to make a diaper. I don't begrudge any WAHM a single cent of her profit; in fact, I think the profit they make is well-deserved. But I'm not buying into the "barely breaking even" theory on why I should go easy on WAHMs in reviews.

Every WAHM is a real person out there in the world with a family, just like me. But once she takes my money, she's a businesswoman, too, and that's how I'll treat her in both my expectations and my reviews. That's not holding her to a higher standard than I expect from other businesses. It's simply holding her to the SAME standard that I expect from other businesses.


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## Sasha_girl (Feb 19, 2003)

Quote:

Now someone said they expect a quality product and have a budget. Well, in all honesty, a diaper is to hold in poo and pee. If it has any other function then that its icing on the cake.
If that were all there was to it we would all have our babies wearing prefolds, wouldn't we? To many of us diapers are much more than just a poop and pee holder, which is why we are willing to shell out more money for pretty/absorbant/whatever we deem important to us diapers. I don't expect perfection, as I stated before. I do expect a quality product. With all of the WAHM's to choose from if I am sent an inferior product that I must send back for unneccesary flaws (I'm not talking about a crooked seam, I'm talking about faulty snaps or obvious mistakes) it won't take long before I choose another WAHM to purchase products from.

Again, I truly love the products I've bought from WAHM's. I love seeing a pretty diaper on my little boy's bum. But I hardly call it a privelage for being able to buy it. It is a business.


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## Lilybet (Jul 19, 2003)

I don't think anyone is arguing that you shouldn't leave an honest review. The problem is that both consumers and WAHMs have become conditioned to regard anything less than a rave (however unspecific) as a serious problem. This group is, I would say, much more knowledgeable than average about cloth diapers and how to shop for them. But a lot of people out there DON'T know how to read a review for whatever relevant information it contains; newbies, especially, can be so overwhelmed by the dizzying array of choices out there that they'll look at a WAHM's overall star rating/number of reviews and nothing else. This gives an awfully big advantage to WAHMs who prompt their happy customers to go and leave feedback, which I don't think is that common a practice -- I've only once been asked to leave feedback at diaperpin for a WAHM. I agree that reviews, positive, negative or neutral, should be as specific as possible. And again, I do think that SpiralWoman's review was overall a very good one and the WAHM should have let it stand -- and been happy with it.

When I posted earlier that I would be more hesitant to post about things like workmanship flaws, I was thinking more along the lines of design flaws, which a WAHM will probably iron out over time if she is made aware of them. I was thinking that it seems rough to have a permanent record that "WAHM X's diapers shrink two sizes after six washings" if WAHM X changed the way she makes the diapers as soon as she found out about the problem so that it doesn't happen anymore.

And of course the word "flaw" covers a huge territory. I wouldn't be inclined to mention minor cosmetic ones in a review; I was just thinking about how when you buy, say, a linen dress, you get a note that says that minor variations and discolorations in the fabric are natural and not to be regarded as imperfections. More major cosmetic flaws or flaws affecting function are another matter. But WAHMs tend to be their own harshest critics; I know I've bought diapers as seconds without for the life of me being able to figure out what was supposed to be wrong with them.









And I don't think that any WAHMs here are saying they don't want fair criticism -- the debate is what constitutes "fair."

Elizabeth


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by allformyboys_
*Karla has often stated that every product she has gotten has had flaws in it, that doesn't set off the light bulb? I don't think every flaw should be pointed out to the public, if it is something that bothers you, or effects the fit/performance of the diaper then yes bring it up to the WAHM. Otherwise I would chalk it up to LIFE and the essence of hand made items.

[snip]

If you don't pick apart everything like this then why should you with diapers? I think WAHM's are being held to a much higher standard and it isn't fair.*
You are taking my comment or comments completely OUT OF CONTEXT and I don't appreciate it at all. You need to step back and figure out a way to make your points without distorting things that I have said, or making it personal about me. I have NOT said that every product I've received has flaws; in fact I have received many FLAWLESSLY sewn and knitted products. My reference to "flaws" in this thread includes design flaws or simply ways that the product could be improved. In fact, I think it is pretty clear in the context of my earlier posting in this thread that everything that everyone does, not just WAHM's, could be done better. As I said earlier in this thread, "But the reality is that every product I have ever tried has flaws, at least in the way that it works for me. . . . Just like none of us is in a final, perfect state, neither are the things that we produce."

I sincerely doubt that WAHM's are being held to a higher standard than anyone else and I suspect that whining about unfairness is not helpful in the relationship between WAHM's and consumers. I think the reverse is often true: that consumers cut WAHM's slack where they'd never tolerate that from a big company. For instance, I've never called up a non-WAHM company weeks after my order has been placed to be told things like "oh, I haven't been able to get to your order because I was out selling the products you ordered at a crafts fair" or "I'm having problems with depression so I haven't been able to get much done" or the like. I've never had to chase down the status of my order from a mail order company in the same way that I have had to repeatedly email several WAHM's to find out where my order is, weeks after I have paid for it. And I have never been lied to about the status, shipping of, or other aspects of my order by a big company, where as I have by a WAHM.

This isn't a rant against WAHM's-- I tried to count how many orders I've placed from WAHM's in the past several years and I think it is well into the 200's (most of these are NOT diapers, btw!). The vast majority of those orders have gone off without a hitch and I've been happy with my purchases. I've ordered from many WAHM's more than once, and I think that the vast, vast majority of WAHM's have amazing products and wonderful customer service. Just like there are a few bad companies, there are a few substandard WAHM's out there-- some have lousy products, some scam their customers, etc.

I've also found that the way in which an individual accepts and processes criticism says volumes about themselves and their work. After more than a decade of critiqueing college and law student presentations, papers, etc, I've learned that it is the most talented students and/or the ones who put the most effort into their work that typically not only accept criticism, but actually do something with it that improves their work. I've emailed critical remarks to a number of WAHM's, most of whom have appreciated the feedback and worked on ways to improve their products. It's such a disappointment to me to see WAHM's get so defensive about criticism.

Karla


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## allformyboys (Jun 17, 2003)

Quote:

Every WAHM is a real person out there in the world with a family, just like me. But once she takes my money, she's a businesswoman, too, and that's how I'll treat her in both my expectations and my reviews. That's not holding her to a higher standard than I expect from other businesses. It's simply holding her to the SAME standard that I expect from other businesses.
Okay well I guess my point is when I read flaw, I see big holes, snaps falling off, unsewn parts, just plain glaringly obvious problems that would effect the diaper in looks/function. When someone else reads flaws, they may see (in their head) small slight puckers at the serging, a skipped stitch in the serging, a loose thread, or a 1/8in off center snap. You see what I am saying? Different people have different visions of what a flaw is, if I were to read "pucker in fabric at serging" and it was bad enough to mention I would think it was a big fold in the fabric at the serging. Something uncomfortable or problematic for the diaper user. But without a picture to see the 'flaw' we are left to our own imaginations. If your going to post an honest review which you should for sure, no one is saying not to be honest, then pictures should be included. It is only fair.

You say you hold her to the same standard but you don't go online to almost all of Walmart's customer base and review their items do you?

Also the almost breaking even thing, it is more expensive to be a wahm and sew and have taxes, site fees, advertising and other business expenses than it is to sew diapers for yourself. There are a lot more costs that go into being a WAHM than the materials and time. Just so you know, there are a alot of WAHM's that barely break even, some that make a good profit, but really I don't think anyone is close to getting rich doing this.

Sooooo my point is, that honest reviews need to have a standard, the word flaw is a WIDE range of issues. I think it just depends on how picky or critical people are. So the reviewing thing is really subjective, which is why pictures would be so good in the reviewing process, they will clear up if it is opinion or if it is fact.

Maybe a standard in reviewing, like this this and this are minor flaws that need blank rating, kinda like a scale of g-vg-ex condition? It just needs to be even, not that we don't want it to be honest, but we for sure need to make it even.

Of course this problem is more of a construction review issue, fit is totally subjective and well will be different for everyone.


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## bokchoy (Jan 4, 2003)

It's discussions like these that just confirm that my decision *not* to post an *honest* review of a very popular WAHM was the right one









I had a diaper with a 1/8" hole right smack dab in the middle of the dipe, I sent it back at my expense and it took her 7 weeks to get me a replacement. By that time, my daughter had practically outgrown it







Wore it maybe 3 more times.

And I had a pair of pants with another 1/4" hole by the crotch seam, at the front where it was visible, but I had my mom fix that.

But oh my goodness! It's apparent that if I posted the name of the WAHM with the above statements here in this discussion, I'd be strung up and beaten like a pinata!

ETA: added "in this discussion" clarification


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## allformyboys (Jun 17, 2003)

Quote:

You are taking my comment or comments completely OUT OF CONTEXT and I don't appreciate it at all. You need to step back and figure out a way to make your points without distorting things that I have said, or making it personal about me. I have NOT said that every product I've received has flaws; in fact I have received many FLAWLESSLY sewn and knitted products. My reference to "flaws" in this thread includes design flaws or simply ways that the product could be improved. In fact, I think it is pretty clear in the context of my earlier posting in this thread that everything that everyone does, not just WAHM's, could be done better. As I said earlier in this thread, "But the reality is that every product I have ever tried has flaws, at least in the way that it works for me. . . . Just like none of us is in a final, perfect state, neither are the things that we produce."
Um I think you are taking my comment out of context and misunderstanding what I meant.

I meant by using YOUR comment, which was what you said, that no product is going to be perfect, I was AGREEING with you, this isn't something I thought you would have a problem with.

You are picky about what you get, critical even, and you have every right to be, I never said otherwise, but my issue is with reviewing things, and having the words/issues misunderstood. I mean flaw to you, and flaw to someone else could be very different meanings.

I am not whining about anything, I really take offense that you would make this personal as well, I was agreeing with you, and you need to read my whole post and try and understand my point of view as well, not just take the fact that I used your name as an attack on you.

Your right, you won't get an excuse why something wasn't shipped or what happened when things go wrong with a big business, and yes SOME WAHM's will lie, MOST don't, it is life, some businesses are trust worthy some aren't.

The one thing about reviewing and the problem with the system is people may take parts of issues or parts of posts and dwell on that, instead of looking at the whole picture and what is truely being said. You have done it here with your post to me, it can be done without looking at a whole picture, how good of a deal your getting, or how much work goes into making beautiful products.

The example post where it was a glowing review with one small flaw mentioned, was wrong to be pulled. Obviously the WAHM read it and ONLY saw the neg mention, not all the good stuff. And this is life neg feedback carrys a LOT farther than positive, so people need to have a standard of reporting it.

I mean people on e-bay I am buying from, I go through and read the neg feedback but skim the positive. why? because the positive is all the same, I want to hear what went wrong. if they are clear on the problem and I am clear on what happened yes I will still bid/buy but that is the issue here, NO ONE is attacking you. So read my whole posts and put the flame thrower away, I was AGREEING with you.


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## allformyboys (Jun 17, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by bokchoy_
*It's discussions like these that just confirm that my decision *not* to post an *honest* review of a very popular WAHM was the right one









I had a diaper with a 1/8" hole right smack dab in the middle of the dipe, I sent it back at my expense and it took her 7 weeks to get me a replacement. By that time, my daughter had practically outgrown it







Wore it maybe 3 more times.

And I had a pair of pants with another 1/4" hole by the crotch seam, at the front where it was visible, but I had my mom fix that.

But oh my goodness! It's apparent that if I posted the name of the WAHM with the above statements here, I'd be strung up and beaten like a pinata!*
Oh I am sorry that you feel that way, but that was NOT my intention, those types of flaws are MAJOR and are not something that should be ignored, and a 7 week wait to replace a diaper (something that doesn't take days/weeks to make) is way too long!

My point was NOT at all what it has obviously be construed, partly due to other posts, but I did not mean that things shouldn't be reviewed or posted, but that there needs to be a median standard as to where we jump off from. Holes and undone seams are a MAJOR flaw if you ask me, and I am sure most others would agree. I don't think a small serging error or an uneven snap would be though, you understand?

I am definatly going to work on getting a fair impartial standard for reveiwing done, I think we need a forum for this, that isn't moderated but by ourselves. (meaning orginal poster, not by site owners or WAHM's)

*sigh* I guess I need to go back to bed, I am not being read well today at all.


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## 4boybarians (Nov 18, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by allformyboys_
*You say you hold her to the same standard but you don't go online to almost all of Walmart's customer base and review their items do you?*
Actually, I've posted product reviews, book reviews, curriculum reviews, etc. And I post to get the information to the people it will be of most interest to, wherever that might be. I don't know if Walmart has an online review system, but yeah, I'd post reviews there, too, if I made more than general household purchases from them. My standard doesn't change based on the size of the business.

Quote:

Also the almost breaking even thing, it is more expensive to be a wahm and sew and have taxes, site fees, advertising and other business expenses than it is to sew diapers for yourself. There are a lot more costs that go into being a WAHM than the materials and time. Just so you know, there are a alot of WAHM's that barely break even, some that make a good profit, but really I don't think anyone is close to getting rich doing this. [/B]
You're making some assumptions about the amount of knowledge I possess on those extra expenses. I'm well aware of them. I've never sold diapers for a living, but I have been a WAHM before. No, I don't think most of them are getting rich, nor would I begrudge them the profit if they were. But I don't believe that the majority of WAHMs are barely breaking even. And even if they are, it doesn't change how I would review their products or customer service. And THAT was my point. I'll let neither pity nor sentiment prompt me into a review that's not completely honest.

Reviews can NEVER be completely "fair" or have any kind of true standard because words do have different connotations to different people. And while pictures might help, the fact is a bad photo can make a truly good product look horrible, and vice versa. And yeah, some people are just more picky or critical than others. Reviews are simply a method of allowing people to hear the opinions of others before making a purchase. Everyone is going to have their own opinion, and everyone else is going to have an opinion on the other person's opinion, and so on and so forth. If I were of a mind to have a review site (Heaven forbid), I would simply encourage DETAILS, DETAILS, DETAILS.


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## Aherne (Jun 26, 2003)

I think we all agree on one thing. There should be more honest reviews. But honest doesnt mean "I'm blunt so deal with it".

Wahms are held to a higher standard in regards to skill. And then, as a wahm, reading something like this makes one wonder what IS a flaw and what is to be expected of an item that is pieced together. Someone buys a diaper and expects it to last through 2 children, washed twice a week and still be sold at 75% of which you paid. I pay a decent price for clothing and I am lucky if it lasts me 4 months before buttons or threads start to come undone.

Nobody here is asking a wahm to work for slave wages. I think if a wahm charges too low of a price, then in the end it is HER fault that she isnt making enough money. Having said that- customers expect to pay a low price (and yes, even slave wage... but the opportunity to work from home is worth it) and still get a botique quality product.

I also agree with the issue that a wahm is cut far more slack in regards to turn around time. And yet the popular wahms can get away with 2+ months and no one blinks. I read about popular items that seem to wick for everyone or get holes after a few months... yet they are still in the top ten. At the same time, I order a product from a catologue and it says 6-8 weeks for delivery... I *know* the product is already made. I order videos that charge $6 shipping and they are sent media mail, arriving 4 weeks later. This is big company practice and we accept it and at the same time wouldnt tolerate it from a small biz. I dont see the CEO of Victoria Secret emailing me and saying "I've been depressed, your order will take longer" I dont want to see it from a wahm. I know that is harsh.

I LOVE the idea of submitting a picture when you mention a costmetic flaw. Some flaws are larger than others, and some customers are pickier than others. I think if you feel it worthy of pointing out and *warning* others so they know what to expect... they should be able to see. I also think you should be obligated to say "this particular flaw did/did not alter the effect of its use and I would/would not have sold it as a second"

Wahms are not walmart... thats all I can say about that.

I think if a wahm had more pictures on their sites of different babies wearing their diapers, you could understand better how they fit different babies. I have two children that are 30 pounds... they each fit a diaper differently. If you find your child hard to fit, then you should discuss this with the wahm (another form or personal service you will not find somewhere else) and dont be afraid to be specific. If someone contacts me stating that they want a diaper that lasts 12 hours with only 1 joeybunz stuffed in it... then I can send them on their merry way. One customer that I didnt have to worry about pissing off since I cant help her.


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## allformyboys (Jun 17, 2003)

Quote:

No, I don't think most of them are getting rich, nor would I begrudge them the profit if they were. But I don't believe that the majority of WAHMs are barely breaking even. And even if they are, it doesn't change how I would review their products or customer service. And THAT was my point. I'll let neither pity nor sentiment prompt me into a review that's not completely honest.
Good point, I understand what your saying, and I agree. It should not change the review at all, I was off topic on that point. Sorry.


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by bokchoy_
*I But oh my goodness! It's apparent that if I posted the name of the WAHM with the above statements here in this discussion, I'd be strung up and beaten like a pinata!*
Only if we were sure that candy would fall out of 'ya.










Thanks for lightening the mood here.

Karla


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## allformyboys (Jun 17, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by lifetapestry_
*Only if we were sure that candy would fall out of 'ya.










Thanks for lightening the mood here.

Karla*
I think maybe we all need a big chunk of chocolate!


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## Basylica (Nov 18, 2003)

I think "honest" reviewing is subject to opinion, as we all can tell by the diff of opinions being shared between us.

Personally, I feel that if a item has serious flaws (such as a hole, or bad snaps, etc) then a review should show that. No respectable person would sell a item with obvious flaws like that...and WAHMs *are* buisness owners, and should either perform QC on their products, or did and sold it anyway.

Then again, a stitch missing, or a wavy seam, etc...that doesn't affect the appearence of the item, nor it's function. If it bothers you, you could contact the WAHM, but doesn't bear repeating on a review IMHO.

Function is pretty much the key. I think that poor function, wether from holes or just shoddy design, should be reviewed honestly. Small flaws like stitching should be brought to the attention of the WAHM or not mentioned.

Now, on the brighter side, i've had ALOT of glowing reviews for the WAHMs and mom-shoppes that i've delt with. They have almost all gone above and beyond the call of duty, etc.

My biggest complaints thus far in the diaper-buying world have been:
- bought "seconds" from MOE directly, and won 2 auctions of 6 each. One of them the back, where the pocket is, the PUL wasn't stitched over the elastic AT ALL. I sent it to MOE and they replaced it completely. I still had to pay shipping to them....which bothered me somewhat. Because It couldn't have been used in it's current state. With a second I expect a little off-ness, and pulls to the fabric, etc. But not entire sections of the diaper not stitched!
I was happy they fixed the problem quickly though, and I understand with a large company that does ALOT of buisness...it's bound to happen once in awhile. If it happens again though, i'll be very unhappy!

Another "wahm" I delt with on ebay was selling lots of new diapers (Which I found out she shouldn't be doing) and I bid on a lot of 2 blue FBS. I set a program, a sniper-bid program up to bid for me since I was tired of being out-bid last minute. I won the auction for like 15 bucks I believe...and I was happy I got two new FBs for 1/2 price.
Until later when I got the package and realized she had changed the auction 12 hours before the end (within ebay rules, but barely) to be ONE fb and not two. I was pretty upset. I posted honest feedback in her ebay acct and got a scathing letter (er, letters) from her about how I was so mean, and she was a poor WAHM..etc etc.

Honestly, I don't feel bad. Esp after finding out that was against the FB distro rules.

Now i've delt with ALOT of great moms, like kim from mtdiaperstore who always wraps up packages with tissuepaper and a little freebie, and ships SUPER quick...maria from kiwipie who has been a doll to talk with and work with and honestly makes some of the best quality products i've ever seen...etc.

I placed a order from a WAHM, for 18 wipes. She was short on fabric (the kind I wanted) so I am pretty sure this is the major factor...but like 2 of the wipes the flannel is "shorter" than the backing, making them curl or wrinkle funny.
But she included 20 or 21 wipes for me because she had a little fabric left, and they were a great price, quality fabric, and well made (the serging was well done)

I figure, she was a teensy short on flannel for width or length on a few, but got more wipes out of the fabric I wanted, and sent me all she could make for the price of what she *thought* she could make.

I was very happy...if I was upset by the "flaw" i'd have emailed her personally and said something...but as it were, they are beautiful...quality-made (ie, will hold up) and fully functional. She got a "good" review from me.


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## onediaperinmama (Jan 9, 2002)

Interesting thread... here's another twist to the issue which has me wondering.

Quote:

As for reviews, I skim the "love these diapers" reviews and look closely at the "this didn't fit my chubby toddler well" ones. Unfortunately those are few and far between.
Does that mean that a review has to have something negative in it to be taken seriously? What if I honestly love the diaper?

When searching reviews on vacuum cleaners, I was so irritated by people who wrote: "I just got this vacuum today, and we love it!" Or even: "We've had our vacuum for 3 months now, and it's so great... blah blah". The problem I had with vacuum after vacuum was that they'd all lose suction after only a year. We kept going up the ladder in price, hoping to get a better vacuum. But it seemed like regardless of whether it was a $70 vac from Target or a $300 vac from a specialized Kirby store, they'd all run into the same problems. The reviews weren't comprehensive because the reviewers were posting their opinions after a very limited amount of time.

I see the same thing with fluffy mail posts & reviews posted after very little diaper use.

SO... I try to use something for a long period of time before I post a review - for example: I used my Elbee Baby diapers for several months & still love them to pieces. I don't have anything negative to say about them. How can one post a positive review and have it be taken seriously?


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## Basylica (Nov 18, 2003)

I don't think it's the positive review, but how you present it.

I think a good review is:

I have a chubby toddler and the legs fit him wonderfully, and the size range was very true-to-size for our little chunky man/girl. The diaper wears well, and still is very soft. It's held up beautifully and I'm sure our next baby will get alot of use out of it!

Our medium wetter has yet to leak...and he leaks with XXXX normally!

Customer service was great, and my order was shipped to me in a timely manner...

Etc Etc...

a review where you say how the diaper fit YOUR baby, etc.
I don't think it's a bad review to say "I have a very skinny legged toddler and we had a hard time getting the legs to fit right, however I really liked the diaper and i'll be keeping it for our next baby in hopes it'll work for him/her.
OR
It didn't work well for our 17lb 1 yr old, but was very absorbant and well made...I wouldn't advice this diaper for super skinny toddlers, but If I have a chubbier baby I'm sure i'd LOVE this diaper..

Things like that, ykwim?

And btw, you make awsome covers. I can't say function (no baby to try out on) but the one I bought is ADORABLE and very wellmade!

I've mentioned it for people who wanted a pull-on like cover


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## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Moonbucket_
*Interesting thread...
When searching reviews on vacuum cleaners, I was so irritated by people who wrote: "I just got this vacuum today, and we love it!" Or even: "We've had our vacuum for 3 months now, and it's so great... blah blah". The problem I had with vacuum after vacuum was that they'd all lose suction after only a year. We kept going up the ladder in price, hoping to get a better vacuum. But it seemed like regardless of whether it was a $70 vac from Target or a $300 vac from a specialized Kirby store, they'd all run into the same problems. The reviews weren't comprehensive because the reviewers were posting their opinions after a very limited amount of time.
*
I agree completely, I've had covers that I loved immediately after purchase but had them wear out much sooner than similiar covers and vise versa. My review of that product now would be much different that a review posted earlier on in the product's lifetime.

BTW congrats on your new arival Jessica!


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## 4boybarians (Nov 18, 2003)

This is one of those topics where, if we were all sitting in the same room, most of us would probably find that we're closer to agreeing with each other than not. I think a topic like this brings to mind, for each of us, particular problems that we've had and particularly good (or idiotic) reviews that we've seen. And these are the types of experiences that are generally harder to relate in this format.

I'm not sure that WAHMs are necessarily held to a higher standard in terms of skill. It's just that a diaper, no matter WHO makes it, HAS to be better constructed than your average garment. It's subjected to much harder use and harsher conditions than any other item of clothing I own. OTOH, better quality fabrics and construction ARE what convinced me to buy WAHM diapers instead of factory manufactured ones. Any higher expectations that I had were directly related to the extra $$ per diaper that I was spending, not the fact that I was buying from a WAHM. I DO expect more when I pay more, but I also don't have a problem paying more for better quality. So for me, it's simply a price versus quality thing that doesn't really have anything to do with WHO makes the product.

Since I made it clear in an earlier post that my pet peeve is really unprofessional behavior, please allow me to give examples...

I received some wipes that fell apart after 1 (ONE) wash due to improper serging. When I requested a refund (would YOU just want a replacement??), I mentioned my disappointment because I love the fabric. I had to listen to the WAHM go on for quite a while about how disappointed SHE was, how the wipes are now being made by a new person who didn't follow the exact specifications, blah blah blah, yada yada yada. I was basically refused a refund and told replacements would be sent out. And they finally were - more than a month later. The original set, that I re-serged myself, are holding up much better so far than the "first quality" replacements I received. I'm going to have to re-serge them, as well. Unprofessional, poor quality construction, poor customer service.

But the one that really ticked me off was on the refund that I'm STILL waiting on (after more than 6 weeks). When I didn't hear from her at all about the return, I emailed to make sure she received it and to question when I would receive my refund. She used her pregnancy as an excuse and a ploy for sympathy while explaining why she hadn't contacted me. No, I'm NOT sympathetic. I'm pregnant too, and she has her 4 wool covers AND my money. For the record, yes, I would have been more understanding if she was actually having problems with her pregnancy. But to just use pregnancy as an excuse for not meeting business obligations... Nope, no sympathy. Unprofessional.

As for flaws... If I peer at every stitch close to my face and find a "flaw," that's not something I'd personally mention. If it's something that effects fit, function, or appearance, then yeah, I'd mention it.

Details, details, details. They are what make reviews that actually HELP people.









Now, pass the chocolate. :LOL


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## Liam&Aiden'sMom (Nov 10, 2003)

This is all very interesting to me, as I have had the same problems reading the reviews. I read through all these reviews for one WAHM and decided to make a purchase...........I have had nothing but problems, not fitting issues ( which is what any negative comments were for her dipes) but serious customer service issues. The dipes did NOT work at all, for a couple reasons. I was told to send them back and she would refund me. I left a review and she replied, but I can not say anything to her reply. I still have no dipes and no refund and it has been well over a month since she received them. Not answering my emails or anything...........I don't know what to do now, and I do not want to sound like a negative person, YKWIM? I have had great experiences with many WAHMs and was fearless jumping into this transaction.............now I am nervous to try anything new regardless of the positive reviews.







:


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

I'd like to add one more thing to this discussion, just in case anyone out there reading is going to create/redo a review site . . .I would LOVE for there to be a format that includes "Construction of the Diaper/Cover/Whatever." For example, people often write that such and such a diaper is/isn't absorbent, but absorbency isn't magic. If X diaper has 5 layers total of hemp fleece and diaper Y has 5 layers total of flannel, then X is GOING to be more absorbent, period.

And on the topic of flaws . . .I'd only post about it if it were bad enough for me to contact the WAHM about it first, but that's just me!


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## scoutycat (Oct 12, 2003)

IMO, the problem with any review site, whether it be video games, diapers or something else, is that by and large people don't just sit down and write a review with no emotional attachment. It happens sometimes, but far more often, the reviewer is ticked off, elated, friends with the WHAM, or has some other interest in the product. Also, it can be easy to mistake one product for another (as in the case of a review one of my WAHM friends, where she got a neg review by a customer who allegedly bought her diapers on ebay before the WAHM was even in buisness!?!) Having a 'form' to help review can help, like rate fit, sizing, materials, sewing on a scale of 1 -10, but still you have to read between the lines. Also, lots of cd reviews are more about cd vs disp since it seems people just don't try out a lot of different stuff before reviewing *sigh* Can't be helped I guess 
I've always emailed a copy of a review to any WAHM I was going to post about, not for approval or anything, but just so they had a chance to defend anything or explain anything to me. Their comments have often caused me to edit my reviews to be more clear about my meaning, or to talk about cs a bit. With the small customer base and advertising budget (ha!) that most WAHMs have, it seems only fair. It's a real bugger to deal with customers sometimes, some people figure you should have quality control like the big companies and be able to change things just for them & it's just not always possible.


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Somebody mentioned doing a review site with pictures. That is SUCH a good idea. Not just a picture of the dipe, but the dipe on the child (like from the chest to the knees....so you can get a sense of their build without identifying the child). Next to the picture, include a height and weight so that people can know how close that child resembles their own. That would let you know how the diaper fit on specific body types. Also, close-ups of flaws would be helpful since one person's "flaw" is anothers "personality". "A picture is worth a thousand words" is such a true statement...one person's "chunky" thighs is another person's "normal" thighs. I doubt most people know the exact measurements of their child's thighs...especially once they are walking/running around. Most people can tell that a child has a similar look to them. Pictures would be so helpful.

On another topic...I have experienced the issue of waiting to review a dipe, giving it a whole-hearted review, and then having the product loose waterproof & velcro fall off. I hesitate to even contact the WAHM since I did get some good use out of it before it happened and I would feel guilty if she did replace it because it has been over 6 months since I ordered the dipe. I just don't know what to do in that situation because I suddenly have a "fitted" of sorts rather than the AIO I had before...it does work in some capacity, just not what I ordered. I know that I wouldn't have a problem whining about a shoe that fell apart in 6 months to some faceless company, but when it is a wahm whom I feel a connection to, I just don't want to say anything. I think this is some of the crux of the issue. It is these gray areas. I can't post a negative review unless I contact her first, and I don't know if it is worthy of any action from her and would feel like I was blackmailing her to get a new dipe if I even mentioned the problem. Plus, I am not convinced it wasn't just a fluke thing or that I didn't do something that added wear to the dipe (washing routine...throwing in the dryer...things like that).

I was a tester for another fitted dipe that I just abused to see if I would have a similar result...the aplix stayed put and dipe held it's shape even after the print started fading from a grueling wash routine (including the accidental addition of bleach on a brightly colored dipe...oooppps!) After dealing with this dipe, it made the other seem even less good, but I am not 6 months into this dipe either (although it has probably been used more than the one I had problems with after 6 months).

It is just really hard to review dipes...babes change, and by the time you have used the dipe enough to feel like you can give it an honest review, the maker might have changed the dipe & worked out the problems you had with it.


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## Twinmommy1120 (Aug 30, 2003)

Well I only read about 75% of these posts but you are all some really passionate and intellegent mamas. I think this thread was needed b/c when I started CD'ng I had no idea what dipes to try. I went to diaperpin and seriously bought any AIO that had 5 stars









So I ended up with like 45 different AIO's and believe me they were not ALL 5 starworthy!!!

What if we could do reviews both here and diaperpin in an anonymous format? We would have a username that doesnt relate to our name here or our real name and this way you might feel more comfortable about reviewing products honestly?

The problem here is you cant review until you have posted x# of times. Perhaps that rule needs to be changed in order to do this. But ITA..I usually only give GOOD reviews..when Im not happy with a diaper, I silently







away







:LOL

Great thread mamas!









Sam

Edited to fix spelling


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## Sasha_girl (Feb 19, 2003)

Quote:

What if we could do reviews both here and diaperpin in an anonymous format? We would have a username that doesnt relate to our name here or our real name and this way you might feel more comfortable about reviewing products honestly?
That's an interesting idea.


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## Aherne (Jun 26, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Twinmommy1120_
*

What if we could do reviews both here and diaperpin in an anonymous format? We would have a username that doesnt relate to our name here or our real name and this way you might feel more comfortable about reviewing products honestly?

The problem here is you cant review until you have posted x# of times. Perhaps that rule needs to be changed in order to do this. But ITA..I usually only give GOOD reviews..when Im not happy with a diaper, I silently







away







:LOL
*
If you have a honest review (good or bad) then you should feel confident in posting using your real name. As far as wahms reading it, real or fake name... they would most likely be able to figure out who it was anyway so there is no reason to use different names to "protect" anyone.

Another problem is that it would be quickly abused in either direction. People posting raves and people posting boos.

I like the fact that you have to have 50 posts before you can review here at MDC. This avoids people "using" the board.


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## LoriG (Feb 27, 2003)

" Another problem is that it would be quickly abused in either direction. People posting raves and people posting boos.

"

Yup --that happened with that other review site (Rosemary's, I think). People can leave anonymous reviews, and some are inaccurate but anyone can say whatever. And we all know about the wahm that left tons of bad feedback for another wahm (anonymously, but of course) out of spite, bla bla. So they can get out of control too.


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

I do think that once you buy a product, you are free to honestly review it. People do have different expectations. For me, if I pay a bundle for something, I expect it to be better than I could make myself at home. Otherwise, I'd make it myself and live with my own flaws. But when money changes hands, its a business deal. I think reviews can only work if we are free to say we weren't satifisfied and why, as well as saying why we love something. Even that is subjective.

It depends on how much I pay as to how much I expect from a diaper or cover. Dh or I had to earn that money, and I don't want to waste it.


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## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

To keep this discussion constructive, please visit this thread and make suggestions...

http://216.92.20.151/discussions/sho...480#post992480


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## Rising Sun (Sep 15, 2003)

I haven't been able to read the whole thread, cause I am getting ready for out of town guests... diapers are in the dryer... but..

I wanted to say a few things I have learned about wahms.

I'm finding that a new wahm has a hard time getting their name out. It seems that a few really good wahms are always mentioned, but new wahms have to keep plugging and plugging along until enough people try their products that they at least have their name out there. It's really hard to get started, and most wahms are operating at a loss in hopes of getting their name out there eventually. So, if you don't believe that a wahm is operating at cost or a loss, I can tell you differently. If you wonder why they bother, it's because they believe in something. They believe in using cloth diapers and want to share that passion. They believe in supporting the "small guy" and want to live that. They are not trying to get rich... they are trying to stay home with their children while standing for their cause.

wahms are held at an interesting standard. It's considered bad customer service to take a long time to make a handmade item, but they should take every effort to make that item flawlessly. Most wahms sew each item with a smile on their face and make every effort to bring you an item that you will cherish. Each diaper comes with some personality.

When you shop at walmart or other stores, you are not getting a handmade item made with only the finest quality materials. As a matter of fact, you are often buying from slave labor.. and sometimes even items made by starving children who are beaten for not producing enough. When you buy from a wahm, you are purchasing an item that is made by choice, by a person who buys groceries with the money you just spent.

When you shop at walmart or other stores, you don't see the owner of the store throwing in freebies and dying to know how you like the item you just purchased. You don't see them making matching wipes to go with your item... just for you. Once you leave, they don't even remember your name.

I could go on and on. But I won't....

The only other thing I want to say is that if you ever find a flaw, I think you should email the wahm and let them know. As a matter of fact, I think you should email the wahm and let them know what you think of their products in detail anyway. Wahms want to hear from you... we listen, and we care deeply about you and your needs. A wahm relationship is a personal relationship.

Teri


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## allformyboys (Jun 17, 2003)

Um.....AMEN Teri!


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