# catheterizing intact 11-months-old male



## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Hello!
I suspect a UTI in my son and a nurse in his ped office (it's impossible to get an appointment with a doctor right away) told me to take him to an ER to have him catheterized. He is intact and I wouldn't like to have his skin retract during the procedure. How can I provide that the nurse or someone else will not retract it?

Maybe someone will have a suggestion on whether there is a bag difference between a regular urinary sample when a bag is placed around baby's penis and this. Obviously, the nurse was telling me that the cath-ing is more accurate since the sample will be sterile.


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## beru (Nov 19, 2007)

I don't know about the bag catch, sorry, but I did want to address the catheterization. There was a horrible story here by a poster whose son was cathed in the ER. She specifically told the nurse not to retract, but she did anyway. And it was not a misunderstanding. She did it deliberately to make it easier for herself. It caused paraphimosis, which the doctor corrected as soon as possible. Needless to say, it was extremely painful.

I think, if you go ahead with catheterizing, you should tell the ER staff this story. Say it happened to a close friend to you and you are very paranoid about it happening. Stress strongly and repeatedly that you expect them to cath your son by feel. They do NOT need to see the urethra. If they tell you they can't do it that way, tell them you will go to another ER.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Thank you!
In my situation I would like to take my son to an experienced ped, but I can't figure out one in my area. I am in Southern California, Los Angeles and Long Beach area. Maybe someone knows a trusttful ped I can take my son to where they would do professsional cath-ing?


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

A few things it might be the case that a cath is more accurate. I don't know for sure but think about it this way. Her concern is (between bag and cath) is the bag might be a false positive because of contamination. If this is true a negative result should always be a negative result. A positivie result means that you might want to cath as a second opinion type thing. So do the bag and see what comes back. If he has to be cathed this can be done without retracting him. If you want a dr referal call nocirc, contact info at www.nocirc.com they'll have a list.

ETA: we also mantain a short list of peds in the resources section of the abov stickies


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## redebeth (Apr 23, 2006)

My intact 8 month old son was catheterized at the peds, many years ago, after I had brought him in with a fever. He bled. It was awful.

He ended up having roseola infantum, nothing to do with his urinary tract. I would never do it again.


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

If you end up at the ER and they insist on cathing...and they want to retract, request a NICU nurse do the cath, they deal with intact babies all the time.


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## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

Bags are used all the time here. I have never heard about anybody catheterising a small boy just for a UTI check.

Isn't there just as much of a risk that the catheter will drag germs into the urethra, as germs being washed out into the bag? I assume that it is germs around the urethra opening that they are worried about?

In girls that is handled by washing before getting the sample. Would they catheterise a girl to get a urine sample?


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

I asked this years ago, and was told that all they have to do is wiggle the end of the foreskin around til they can see the opening of the urethra. No retraction necessary.

And yes, ask for a NICU nurse if they insist on a sterile cath.


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## charleysmama23 (Sep 28, 2008)

I'm a peds nurse and just wanted to say that I would avoid catheterization. Ask them to bag him (after thoroughly cleaning the area) and then if they get a positive result from that you can decide about cathing. Intact or not it's very traumatic and it is SO rarely a UTI. Hope it all works out and your little guy is feeling better soon!


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## 2boyzmama (Jun 4, 2007)

If you don't mind staying longer, ask for a bag catch first. If the bag is negative, then it's negative. If it's positive, then a sterile cath is necessary to verify that it's positive (because there's a small possibility that it could be contaminated from the skin).

Also, ask for a NICU nurse, and ask them how they intend to manipulate his foreskin without retracting it. Ask the nurse to define retraction for you.

My son was partially retracted during a VCUG after a hospitalization for a UTI at 9 weeks old, and after hearing my story, my sister's baby had a suspected UTI and she insisted on being the one to manipulate her son's foreskin during the cathing. So she held his penis, lined up the urethra without retracting, and then the nurse inserted the catheter. So that's an option as well.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

What are the symptoms he is having that make you suspect UTI?


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

We went to a regular ped (well, a holistoc one) yesterday and put a bag aroun his penis. Then he peed and pooped at the same time, so the bag was soiled. I hope when they take a sample out of it, they will be careful not to contaminate it.

He hardly urinates during the day now (3 times-4 times only), and when he does, he cries. Also, I am concerned about his weight loss. Recently he has been losing weight (about 10 ounces in a month). He doesn't like being put on his back if it's related at all. And if I want to pull his legs to the tummy to potty train him, he won't let me (several months ago he wouldn't mind).


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Definatly something going on there. I hope that you are able to find the cause and get him back to where he needs to be


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## Dave2GA (Jul 31, 2005)

The symptoms you describe sound quite serious to me. I would get him to a doc quickly. I have PMed you the name of a ped in LA.


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dave2GA* 
The symptoms you describe sound quite serious to me. I would get him to a doc quickly. I have PMed you the name of a ped in LA.

In second this.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dave2GA* 
The symptoms you describe sound quite serious to me. I would get him to a doc quickly. I have PMed you the name of a ped in LA.

Thank you! THat's the doctor I took him to yesterday. The doc on vacation now so they had another person see patients. Now we'll just wait for the culture test results. I don't feel conident they'll be acurate since the bag with urine was soiled.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

As long as the inside of the bag was clean there is no reason to think you will get inaccurate results. I am sure your ds isnt the first to do a bit of poo on the outside of the catch bag.

Please do keep us informed when you have time. Never know when something like this might help someone else.


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## tutucrazy (Dec 30, 2008)

It doesn't sound like UTI to me based on his symptoms. Sounds like it could be something else.

My son had painful urination and this was the reason.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Today he didn't pee but once in the morning. Hardly eats, doesn't drink any water, nurses only a little bit. In the evening I tried to give him water to drink, he didn't want to, but I made him, and after 5 minutes he throw up. I can tell he's losing a lot of weight. We already received some results of the urine test - there is still blood in it, just like when he was 3 months, and some ketons. We are waiting for the culture results. I am thinking that's the reason he's anemic - he's been peeing out blood since he was 3 months old. He always has puffy face, I don't even want to think about a possibility of him having had UTI for 8 months (he's 11 months now)!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

mama. I hope that you are able to get to the bottom of all this very soon. I am glad you have an intact friendly ped. that is going to make things much les stressful on you and your ds.


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

It doesn't sound like a UTI to me. AFAIK, UTI wouldn't affect appetite and wouldn't cause weight loss.

It does sound serious and I would get him to the best children's hospital or best peds practice at a hospital in the area. Not a regular ped -- you want hospital-based doctors who see serious things all the time.

Please remember that the so-called link between the intact penis and UTIs has been disproved --- it was bad science. So neither you nor a doctor should look at his penis and assume because he has a foreskin, he has a UTI. The foreskin is NOT causing whatever is going on. The doctors and you both need to look at his overall symptoms and not leap to any conclusions that this is a UTI.

And unless the ped is an MD I wouldn't follow up -- a holistic ped who's an MD is one thing but please don't pursue this with a non-medical-doctor. I am all for alternative health methods but this does sound like there's something very big going on.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Thank you for your support, guys!
I am going banana here because I called the lab, they have the culture test ready, but they haven't faxed it to the ped because the ped didn't send them a release form. I called the ped on duty, and they aren't returning my calls. I am the mother and the lab won't give my son's results to me!!!!!How is that possible? The ped ovbiously doesn't care, and I don't know what I can do. I DON'T want to wait till Monday.

What other tests can be done to see if it's his kidneys or why he has blood in urine? I am aware of the fact that untreated UTI can lead to kidney damage. Or he might just have kidney issues. Taking a bath with him really helps, at least he naps well after it and is less whiny.

he isn't doing things he should do at 1 year of age, and of course, if something bothers him, it's difficult to thrive. I don't want him to lose weight any more and I want to finally fell like I have the rights to know what's wrong with my ds. How come all the doctors I've taken him to never referred us for a single lab or took my preocupations seriously. "He is fine, momma, you are being paranoic; he's just a fussy baby", they've told me.

Maybe I should take him to the ER.
I've always taken to him to MDs only, but the ones that are more natural and support BF, co-sleeping, etc.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quirky* 
It doesn't sound like a UTI to me. AFAIK, UTI wouldn't affect appetite and wouldn't cause weight loss.

It does sound serious and I would get him to the best children's hospital or best peds practice at a hospital in the area. Not a regular ped -- you want hospital-based doctors who see serious things all the time.










Where can I find a doctor like that? I have no idea where the best children hospitals are or best ped practice. I live near Los Angeles and Long Beach.


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## mrsfrenchy (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trus* 
Where can I find a doctor like that? I have no idea where the best children hospitals are or best ped practice. I live near Los Angeles and Long Beach.

Are there any hospitals in your area that specifically have a Children's ER (seperate from the regular ER)? Or have a children's hospital on the campus of or near a large medical center?


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rabbitmum* 
Bags are used all the time here. I have never heard about anybody catheterising a small boy just for a UTI check.

Isn't there just as much of a risk that the catheter will drag germs into the urethra, as germs being washed out into the bag? I assume that it is germs around the urethra opening that they are worried about?

In girls that is handled by washing before getting the sample. Would they catheterise a girl to get a urine sample?









:

this is what I was thinking. I've had countless UTIs in my day and haven't been cathed yet.


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trus* 

Maybe I should take him to the ER.
I've always taken to him to MDs only, but the ones that are more natural and support BF, co-sleeping, etc.

After what you've posted, I would take him to the ER.


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## RomanCarmelMom (Dec 2, 2008)

Forget that doctor and take him to the ER.

If he's vomiting, not eating, and not urinating, it sounds like he has a kidney infection and needs to be treated ASAP!


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

I think after reading everything, you may want to go ahead and bring him to the E.R. and insist on a nephrology eval. They will problably do that anyway. There are many causes of hematuria, is it microscopic? HUGS!! it will be okay, but he needs to see a nephrologist hun


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

I did take him to the ER. They drew his blood and found nothing abnormal except for anemia. The urine this time was clear with no blood or bacteria. The culture test from Wednesday came back positive with 2 microorganisms. That's why they sent another sample for culture.

However, I sadly want to report that the retraction did occur. Here is how. When we were admitted to the ER, I started talking to the nurse about catheterizing, and he said they would have to retract his foreskin. I told him I would hold my son penis and a nurse by feel would insert a probe. But he said that's not gonna happen. If they catheterize, they have to retract, no options. He told me to tell the doctor I wouldn't like my son catheterized, but a urine sample bagged instead. SO when a female doctor came in, I explained all again to her saying that my close friend had a situation when her uncircimcized son's foreskin was retracted and the bay ended up needing a surgery. She looked at me weird just like the nurse before and said they wouldn't get a clean sample with a bag. I said I wouldn't let him be catheterized or his foreskin retracted. I thought I made myself clear. She started examining my son, and then started feeling his abdomen and go to his penis. With all the sudden she grabbed it and started retracting his foreskin. At first I was in shock for a couple of seconds, then I felt like I was about to pass out. I had explained her and asked not to do, and here she was doing it!!!! I started saying, 'no, no, please stop, no, no', and she kept saying, "How come his skin isn't retracting well? How come it isn't retracting back? Do you even clean inside his penis?' I felt raped after that.

Apparently, she was a resident, then a male doctor came in, and he was more understanding. He asked to examine my son again. I asked not to retract his foreskin. He asked in surprise, 'Why would I do that?' I didn't want to tell him his resident just did; I just said that doctors do it sometimes.

Then a nurse came to put a bag on him and wanted to retract to clean inside his penis with iodine. I didn't let her. Besides, iodine hurts on unprotected areas! How can they even do that! She did it on the outside of his penis, terrible.

On top of everything that female resident who retracted his foreskin was the one to come and talk to me every time they did a lab or smth. SO I kept seeing her and taking to her all day. I felt like killing that be-ach.

I knew from before that you are absolutely powerless in a medical institution. When you ask them smth they are not used or think is weird, they do things their way, sometimes even on purpose. Like in our situation - I am sure she did it partially to get back at me because I had asked her not to.

BTW, before she examined my son, she was literally ra-ping me with her questions about why we don't vaccinate. First I just wanted to say I am jewish to get rid of her, but that wouldn't fit well with uncircumcision. So I made a religion excuse, and she was trying really hard to find out what religion and why it doesn't let us immunize. What are you supposed to do about not immunizing? Lie that your vaccines are up to date?

Anyway, if I had a legal way to get back at that 'doxtor' be-ach, I would. She had no right to retract his foreskin. I hope she didn't damage anything. A patient is powerless in the claws of modern medicine.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kailey's mom* 
I think after reading everything, you may want to go ahead and bring him to the E.R. and insist on a nephrology eval. They will problably do that anyway. There are many causes of hematuria, is it microscopic? HUGS!! it will be okay, but he needs to see a nephrologist hun

It's difficult to insist on anything. Read my post above. I insisted on have an ultrasound done to check his kidneys, but they wouldn't because the blood showed a normal level of creatinin. They said if I wanted an ultrasound, to go to a ped. Where can I get a neuphrology eval except for the ER? I ws trying to find one before but couldn't. We stayed there for 6 hours but all they did was a urne sample and blood work. Is it always like that? DO you have to come there with a list of things you want done and not to leave until they do? How long will you have to stay there then? It took us 6 hours just to get 2 tests done.


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## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trus* 
With all the sudden she grabbed it and started retracting his foreskin. At first I was in shock for a couple of seconds, then I felt like I was about to pass out. I had explained her and asked not to do, and here she was doing it!!!! I started saying, 'no, no, please stop, no, no', and she kept saying, "How come his skin isn't retracting well? How come it isn't retracting back? Do you even clean inside his penis?'

Then a nurse came to put a bag on him and wanted to retract to clean inside his penis with iodine. I didn't let her. Besides, iodine hurts on unprotected areas! How can they even do that! She did it on the outside of his penis, terrible.

On top of everything that female resident who retracted his foreskin was the one to come and talk to me every time they did a lab or smth. SO I kept seeing her and taking to her all day. I felt like killing that be-ach.

I knew from before that you are absolutely powerless in a medical institution. When you ask them smth they are not used or think is weird, they do things their way, sometimes even on purpose. Like in our situation - I am sure she did it partially to get back at me because I had asked her not to.

BTW, before she examined my son, she was literally ra-ping me with her questions about why we don't vaccinate. First I just wanted to say I am jewish to get rid of her, but that wouldn't fit well with uncircumcision. So I made a religion excuse, and she was trying really hard to find out what religion and why it doesn't let us immunize. What are you supposed to do about not immunizing? Lie that your vaccines are up to date?

Anyway, if I had a legal way to get back at that 'doxtor' be-ach, I would. She had no right to retract his foreskin. I hope she didn't damage anything. A patient is powerless in the claws of modern medicine.

I'm so sorry that you and your baby had to go through this! I can't imagine that this doctor had the right to do this to you.

I have never heard about this kind of abuse from "modern medicine" here in our "socialist" system. It seems to me that U.S. doctors have far too much power! Is it because you were in the E.R. that you had limited chances of choosing which doctor to see or not see, and less influence on what they were doing?

Retracting and harassing like this doctor did is just ridiculous! I completely understand that you must have felt trampled all over when it happened, but you must realise that they were wrong and you are right, and I hope you will file a complaint about this doctor - for retracting after you had said you didn't want it to happen AND it was completely unnecessary, and for harassing you with her ignorant comments. I can't believe she scolded you for not "cleaning inside his penis"! She obviously doesn't have a clue about penis care and this shouldn't be allowed to continue! Also I can't believe she has the right to talk to you like that - what happened to "the customer is always right"?







:

I hope no harm was done to your baby's penis. Probably, though, he will be alright as long as it is left to heal. I really hope you find out soon what the problem is and that he gets well as soon as possible!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I am so sorry mama. I wish you had told the Dr. though about the other one retracting your ds after you asking her not to. It would have been a good learning experiance for her to know that it isnt supposed to retract at that age. If she isnt corrected she will probably go on to hurt other little boys. I would actually sit and write a letter to the hospital and the dept. heads about your experiance and provide information as to why what happened to your ds is a damaging thing.

I would take your ds back to the ped and have them do test to find out what is up with your ds. After all you have posted I am thinking it is more than just a UTI.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

I don't think I could choose what doctor to see - there were only two of them in there - the female resident and the male doctor.

Yes, I would like to file a complaint against her and write a letter to the hospital and the department heads about my experience and provide the info about why it is damaging. However, I don't have any experince in this. Has anyone ever done that? I don't want her to hurt other babies. It's insane. Guys, if you ever filed a complained again doctor's abuse, please let me know what steps you took.

Yes, I will take my son to the ped again esp. because 2 microofganisms grew in the culture.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rabbitmum* 
Probably, though, he will be alright as long as it is left to heal.

I hope so!!!!!


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trus*
I don't think I could choose what doctor to see - there were only two of them in there - the female resident and the male doctor.

Yes, I would like to file a complaint against her and write a letter to the hospital and the department heads about my experience and provide the info about why it is damaging. However, I don't have any experince in this. Has anyone ever done that? I don't want her to hurt other babies. It's insane. Guys, if you ever filed a complained again doctor's abuse, please let me know what steps you took.

Yes, I will take my son to the ped again esp. because 2 microofganisms grew in the culture.

For the resident situation, I think you should approach it as a two-part issue: one, she didn't listen to you and respect your directives with regard to your son's care, and two, she and other residents need to be educated about the proper handling of the infant, non-retractable penis. If you start using words like "abuse" they're not going to listen.

Second and more importantly, you need to find a ped who's going to look at the whole picture of weight loss, blood in the urine, etc. You might even try a family doctor. You don't even need to discuss the vax issue any time you go in to a new doctor -- just say he's fine on vaxes and concentrate on the issues that are bringing you there so that you don't get side-tracked. If it comes up, just say, I'm not here to discuss that, I'm here to discuss my son's medical issues, which are not related to any vax-preventable illnesses.

Good luck and hang in there! Perhaps it would be helpful for you to write down a timeline of what symptoms you've seen when, along with a daily chart of when he's eating/drinking and peeing and when he's refusing to eat. That way you have notes for yourself to discuss these issues and you won't forget or get flustered.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quirky* 

Second and more importantly, you need to find a ped who's going to look at the whole picture of weight loss, blood in the urine, etc. You might even try a family doctor.

I can't find a normal ped. Where can I find a good family doctor? If I just google 'family doctor in So California', it may give me many links. What's the criteria for choosing a good doctor?


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

But thanks so much for the info on how to deal with handling the crazy resident issue. Do I just write letter and take them to the hospital? What info do you think will be relevant to attach? About unretractable penis care, for example?


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Word of mouth is your best bet. There is a Finding Your Tribe section here you can post in and search the archives in:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=92

You can also see if there are local parenting groups such as La Leche League, Attachment Parenting International, and Holistic Moms Network that would be good referral sources.

Did you discuss the lack of peeing/lack of eating and drinking with the ER docs? How is your son now?

On the retraction issue, you can contact John Geisheker at Doctors Opposing Circumcision for help in a letter to the hospital about how they need to train their residents better:

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...t/contact.html


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

I would definitely complain about the doctor who retracted your son's foreskin. In Australia that would be considered battery and you could press criminal charges. I totally agree with the PP from Norway, the system in the US does not sound good at all.

Regarding the urine collection. I have worked in ED for many years and I have never seen a small child catheterised to get a urine sample. We start with a bag which will be contaminated with skin flora if it is cultured but is fine to see if there is blood, white cells or nitrites (all signs of infection) on a dipstick with takes one minute and is done in the ward. Unless the child is infected with an unusual organism a culture isn't even really needed as you can just treat with antibiotics which cover the main sources of infection.

If the UTI didn't heal up and we really needed a culture for a suspected atypical organism then we would want to do a bladder tap to get a sterile sample. This involves putting some local anaesthetic cream on the tummy just above the pubic bone then accessing the bladder with a fine needle and drawing a sample of urine out with a syringe. Much less traumatic for a child (male or female) than a catheterisation and more likely to result in a sterile sample.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quirky* 
Did you discuss the lack of peeing/lack of eating and drinking with the ER docs? How is your son now?


Thank you, guys, for posting your replies!

When we were in the ER, he finally peed a good amount and then peed again. Since then his appetite increased, too. But he only pees 3 times a day now, although eats more solids, but still not enough. I caught him cry when was peeing again. He still cries when he sleeps with all the sudden, and won't want to be put on his back.

Another issue is that I've been giving him iron supplement regularly for about a months now, but his HB went down. The same issue was when I took him to a ped about a month ago. THe ped was really surprised that in spite of the diet adequate in iron (ds used to use solids rich in iron really well), HB went down. There must be something going on - I read that kidney problems are often the cause of anemia. One of the symptoms of anemia is chills, cold feet and hands. DS gets cold even on a hot summer day and is really into fatty foods now, perhaps, because they warm him up.


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## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

This must be really stressful for you. I hope you will find out what is the matter and that he gets better soon!


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Thank you!
I took him to the GI doctor yesterday to find out why he isn't eating any solids, and she said that was because I breastfeed him so much. She suggested that I stop breatfeeding so much and give him a lot of solids. I asked her how I can feed him if he doesn't let me put any food in his mouth, or if I do, he spits it up, but her reply was that I overbreastfeed.

So when we got home, I made him eat two meals, and he had hiccups after each of them, so I was afraid to feed him more so that he wouln't throw up. In the evening he wasn't willing to eat either, so again, I made him. All in all in the vening he had about 7 - 8 tbs of food, he didn't have any hiccups, and I thought it was great. Hoever, after 5 minutes, he vomited all the food I had given him.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I am sorry mama. I dont agree with the GI about over breastfeeding. To many Dr are ignorent of the benifits of bfing.

Forcing food is only going to cause issues later on either with food aversion or with eating disorder. Yes offer your ds food but in the form he can self feed not force spoon feeding.

I wish I knew a Dr. name to refer you to. Have you tried asking over in Finding your tribe for a dr that will be suited to your needs?


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## tutucrazy (Dec 30, 2008)

STOP THE IRON SUPPLEMENT!!!

There are some natural ones that don't have nearly the side effects of the prescription kind. The iron supplement is probably dehydrating him and causing some constipation. I gave my son one of those for only 2 days and I already was noticing the side effects. You can buy a tincture of yellow dock and dandelion root that is much better for your baby!

Btw, anemia in breastfed babies can be improved with only diet changes.


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## tutucrazy (Dec 30, 2008)

Here is a link where you can buy the iron tonic tincture. Get the glycerin base for children which is non-alcoholic.

http://www.kerrysherbals.com/tinctures.shtml


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## tutucrazy (Dec 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trus* 
Thank you!
I took him to the GI doctor yesterday to find out why he isn't eating any solids, and she said that was because I breastfeed him so much. She suggested that I stop breatfeeding so much and give him a lot of solids. I asked her how I can feed him if he doesn't let me put any food in his mouth, or if I do, he spits it up, but her reply was that I overbreastfeed.

So when we got home, I made him eat two meals, and he had hiccups after each of them, so I was afraid to feed him more so that he wouln't throw up. In the evening he wasn't willing to eat either, so again, I made him. All in all in the vening he had about 7 - 8 tbs of food, he didn't have any hiccups, and I thought it was great. Hoever, after 5 minutes, he vomited all the food I had given him.

My son has the same trouble. He doesn't eat many solids which was the cause of his anemia. I'd just look into the iron tonic I sent you and try not to push the food issue. Anytime I push food on my son it just makes it worse. My son is an expert vomitter, solids just give him trouble. Plus, solids will exaggerate and internal constipation and dehydration.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

I give him ionic iron - have you heard of it? I don't want to give them what they have prescribed.
Now I give him some fingerfoods while he plays, he is eating some.

The GI recommended a pediatritian she works closely with, so we went to see her. THat ped has 5 sons of her own ( I am not sure circ or not), but she retracted my son't foreskin again. I don't understand what is going on and why doctors are so ignorant. She told me that the foreskin can be retracted up to a point - if it doesn't retract further, thatn that's the point.

Also, she said my baby is just too babied -which doesn't explain at all why he cries at night sleeping next to me or rolls a hundred times and moans.


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trus* 
I give him ionic iron - have you heard of it? I don't want to give them what they have prescribed.
Now I give him some fingerfoods while he plays, he is eating some.

The GI recommended a pediatritian she works closely with, so we went to see her. THat ped has 5 sons of her own ( I am not sure circ or not), but she retracted my son't foreskin again. I don't understand what is going on and why doctors are so ignorant. She told me that the foreskin can be retracted up to a point - if it doesn't retract further, thatn that's the point.

Also, she said my baby is just too babied -which doesn't explain at all why he cries at night sleeping next to me or rolls a hundred times and moans.

If I were you, I would be VERY clear about not touching his foreskin. My son had a history a eczema in the upper-inner legs area, so used to see MANY doctors with his diaper off, obviously when he was younger and NO ONE EVER retracted him (not even a little bit) because I was always VERY clear about the issue.

Second thing, I'm very worried about your son. Constant puffiness can be a symptom of a serious problem. If you don't mind sharing, what was his diagnosis and the prescription that you chose to avoid?


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

The retraction must stop mama. Your ds could end up with true phimosis from scar tissue if it dosnt. I understand it is hard to say something but if you dont and this keeps happening your ds is very much at risk of problems









Sounds like the second Dr. who said your baby is to babied isnt who you need to be seeing either







I swear it can be nearly impossible to find a good Dr. sometimes. I would go back to the foreskin friendly Dr. recommended in one of the pp's at least then you wont have to fight to keep him from being retracted.


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## Night_Nurse (Nov 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trus* 

Also, she said my baby is just too babied -which doesn't explain at all why he cries at night sleeping next to me or rolls a hundred times and moans.

Please find a new doctor for your son! Trust your gut instinct here - you know something is wrong with him being in pain and your doctor just wants to blame you saying he's babied and then retracts his foreskin (which may lead to more pain!).

What did they prescribe that you don't feel comfortable giving him, if you don't mind me asking?


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Do you mind saying what exactly you tell the doctors? Do you refer to legal actions?

My ds hasn't been diagnosed with anyting but anemia, but I am trying to find out what exactly causes his anemia and sleep problems.

The foreskin friendly doc doesn't care much about what is going on. Besides they are really pricey and located far away from us.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Night_Nurse* 

What did they prescribe that you don't feel comfortable giving him, if you don't mind me asking?

Did i say they had prescribed smth? actually, they didn't bcs we don't know what is going on. THe GI doctor wants us to do an upper GI, but I'd rather do endoscopy - at least the baby will be under anesthesia.


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## Night_Nurse (Nov 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trus* 
Did i say they had prescribed smth? actually, they didn't bcs we don't know what is going on. THe GI doctor wants us to do an upper GI, but I'd rather do endoscopy - at least the baby will be under anesthesia.

Well, you said this yesterday:

"I give him ionic iron - have you heard of it? *I don't want to give them what they have prescribed.*
Now I give him some fingerfoods while he plays, he is eating some."

So yeah, sorry.

Glad to hear he's eating some now.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trus* 
Do you mind saying what exactly you tell the doctors? Do you refer to legal actions?

My ds hasn't been diagnosed with anyting but anemia, but I am trying to find out what exactly causes his anemia and sleep problems.

The foreskin friendly doc doesn't care much about what is going on. Besides they are really pricey and located far away from us.

You say simply I do not want you touching his penis in any way. If they ask why then you say because in the past he has been hurt this way or simply because I am not comfortable with it.

When I took my ds in for a bacterial infection of his foreskin I told the dr. right off that I wasnt allowing him to touch ds and I moved his penis around (not retracting just raising) so he could see it.

This is the same Dr. that in the past I had to remove his hand from my ds for attempting to retract him. So I have learned my lesson.

It just isnt worth the pain and risk of problems later on to allow this to happen.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Thank you!
I told the doctor in the ER not to touch his penis at all, but she did anyway. I guess I will mention my taking legal actions next time if this happens.

They've prescribed either fer-in-sol or ferrous sulfate (can't remeber the exact spelling of the last one, and the prescription is away







))


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

You have to be prepared to physically remove their hands if they try it. Not saying smack but take their hand in your and remove it from the penis if they insist on touching even after you have said no.

If after you inform the Dr/nurse they still insist it is ok to do, you tell them "no this is my ds and according to all the current medical research retracting should never be done by anyone but the owner of the penis and you will take appropriate action should they go against your wishes". No need to be rude about it (unless of course they start giving you a hard time) just very matter of fact.

They are working for you, you pay their bill not the other way around. You deserve to have your wishes honored.


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## l_olive (Jan 18, 2005)

Every single time my son sees a medical professional, I say the following before he takes a stitch of clothing off. I've rehearsed it several times over the years.

My son's penis is intact, and his foreskin is not yet retractable. I do not give my consent to having you manipulate his foreskin in any way, and I will stop you if you attempt to do so.

I also carry a copy of the AAP guidelines in my wallet at all times.

Some of them look at you like you're crazy, but no one's ever touched his penis after that. My usual family doctor is used to the speech by now!


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

I simply say: My son is intact. I do NOT want you to try to push his foresking back AT ALL, NOT even a little bit. I am never rude, but I do say it like I REALLY mean it. Of course I stand right there next to the doctor ready to act if s/he decided to ignore my request. Well, I'm 5-11", karate type mama, standing right next to the doctor and watching every step...so no one ever tried to go against my wishes


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *l_olive* 

My son's penis is intact, and his foreskin is not yet retractable. I do not give my consent to having you manipulate his foreskin in any way, and I will stop you if you attempt to do so.

I also carry a copy of the AAP guidelines in my wallet at all times.


Thank you, everybody! I will use the above speech with author's permission. As for AAP guidelines, where could I get them?


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## l_olive (Jan 18, 2005)

http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/aap/

It's near the bottom under foreskin retraction.


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

This is the intact care agreement:

http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/care.htm


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Thank you for the links!


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## borobaby (Nov 23, 2006)

I give the same speech every time diaper or pants are taken off.

My son has an intact penis and it does not retract. Please don't retract or pull back at all.

I stand ready and have now, on one occasion, 'moved' the doc's hand away from my son's penis because it seemed that she was going to begin to pull back. I moved the penis out of the way for her to look at the testicles from that point.

It happens very fast, you have to be ready.

I am so ready for the medical world to get on the right page with this.....


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Yes, it happens really fast.

WHat can we do for the medical world to be educated?


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## Lkg4dmcrc (Jan 6, 2006)

I cannot believe that they did not hospitalize him if he is losing that much weight and not drinking or eating. That seems strange to me.

Regarding the retraction - I am sorry that happened to your son.


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## tutucrazy (Dec 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trus* 
Thank you!
I told the doctor in the ER not to touch his penis at all, but she did anyway. I guess I will mention my taking legal actions next time if this happens.

They've prescribed either fer-in-sol or ferrous sulfate (can't remeber the exact spelling of the last one, and the prescription is away







))

That is what they prescribed my son. I gave him 1/3 the dosage for 2 days and he was so constipated that he bled when he pooped. DON'T give him this. Check out the iron supplement which is a natural iron tonic that I recommended. Also remember that low iron in breastfed babies can be corrected with dietary changes only. Only 2 tablespoons of food is enough to correct the problem in many babies. You should get his iron levels checked again to see if they are normal now. If still low I would use the tonic with yellow dock and dandelion root.

Avoiding retraction is simple. Keep the diaper on! I learned the hard way.


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