# self-care as an INFP mother



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

I am trying to do the exercises in The Mother's Guide to Self-Renewal. My youngest just turned 3 and I feel that my life as a mother is shifting. It's time to create a more sustainable lifestyle for myself.

I am getting majorly stuck on the second chapter on self-care. The exercises basically involve identifying what I can do to make self-care a priority and how to motivate myself to do it. Unfortunately, I just don't know where to start. I feel such a time scarcity, and it seems overwhelming to identify where to start to address my self-care needs. I definitely have neglected many areas of self-care in the almost six years that I've been a parent. I'm a homeschooling mom, my husband's schedule is different every week, and our childcare options are quite limited due to my children's ages and their tendency to be quite high-strung. I suck at developing routines to begin with, but the lack of a consistent daily/weekly schedule of help and support from my dh makes it very hard to fit in stuff like exercise and other forms of self-care on a regular basis.

My brilliant friend was also feeling stuck on these exercises, and she hit on the idea of using our Myers-Briggs personality types to look at self-care. I'm an INFP and I think that the INFP tendency to be tuned into my children's needs has resulted in my needs coming last







. I'd love to hear from other INFP moms about the following:

what forms of self-care have the most "bang for the buck" for INFP mothers?
what strategies for developing self-care routines are most effective for INFP mothers?
how I can shift from either/or thinking when I think about caring for my children's needs vs. my own needs?
I'd really appreciate help with this







.


----------



## artparent (Jun 8, 2005)

hey ksenia. i am pretty sure i'm the same type, and as you know also homeschooling, and my partner has a different schedule each week, and i have a 3 year old so i'm feeling a shift toward taking care of myself - for me that is coming in terms of getting exercise and setting goals for that, and returning more energy to my career (er, what career?







). i'll have to have a look at the mother's guide to self-renewal! i really like the artist's way as a structure for me to focus on myself, it is probably similar in some ways.

i have had great difficulty with routine, i tend to wake up and not know what we should do each day, until we've left the house and i notice that no one has brushed their hair or when my children shout for food. oops! so i wrote out our routines and i've refined them over the years, they now keep me to their routines, which is really helpful as i really would do it differently every day. i have my computer email me my routine every morning and evening, plus any other scheduley thing so i don't have to think about it. i do a lot of planning with my partner to figure out times when i can go to a yoga class, get out for a run in the forest (lots of bang for my buck, wow!) or go to something cultural with a friend. we had our first date out in months, recently, and it is amazing how much it reconnected us, though we often have evening dates at home, which looks pretty much like cuddling on the couch and talking/watching films, we do this often, to the detriment of paperwork and housework. however, i also really look forward to evenings when the children are in bed, and he is out, so i can do my own thing. if it ever happens that the children go out without me, i LOVE being alone in the house, i almost freak out with joy and disorientation, there are so many things i want to do. i work really well with a timer, so that i spend 15 minutes on housework, 15 on paperwork or my own work, and then 15 on something i would really like to do but rarely let myself do.

my last favourite renewal thing to do is to have a bath and write. writing is my best repair and i try to write every morning or every night...i'll let my kids watch tom & jerry so i can get that time in in the mornings in particular. it really helps me.

also, talking on the phone with a friend while cleaning the house is great for me, i get a lot done without noticing, and really feel better.

since my elder child fell in love with reading i really get a lot more time for myself, and i'm starting to see the light with the little one (three and a half this weekend) starting to get into her daddy more, and relinquishing me...nursing just a tiny bit morning and evening, getting into doing more things with her sister, just feeling more energetic and letting go of napping, slowly...it all helps.

i dream of small amounts of regular childcare, and having the contract work to pay for it, and i really look forward to when my little one is into reading and independent stuff so i can do more of that myself.

it helps me if i can meet my own needs in the presence of my children - writing while they are drawing etc..and it helps me if i can just get away, a bit.

i hope that helps. i'm going to think about your questions some more!!

*


----------



## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Hi, Ksenia! I'm not an INFP (I think I'm an E something...) but one of the things that has really helped me with getting time for myself to work or exercise, etc is making a schedule with DH. He works from home, as do I, and so we divide up the week - usually into half-days since he's home - and while one of us has "work" time the other is caring for the kids. Our work time is for work or any other activity we want to do _sans enfants_.

I know your DH doesn't work at home, so you guys will have larger chunks of time to divide, but the principle still holds. Since he has an irregular schedule, yours would not be based on a calendar week necessarily. You could plan it out every 2 weeks, or for a month, whatever works for you guys in terms of getting together to do it. Basically you draw up a calendar and for each day you would note the time he's not at work (evenings, days, whenever that is). Then within that period (1 month, 2 weeks, whichever you choose) you divide up that time between you. Since you are also "working" as a mother whenever he is at his job, it is only fair that you get to share the free time. And of course you may want to use some of that time for family stuff - we have "family flex time" built into our schedule.

The great thing about this is that each partner knows what is expected of him/her on any given day. It allows you to divide up the time so that neither partner gets the feeling that they are doing more than the other. And it gives you distinct blocks of time when you can count on having alone time to do things. Then it's up to you to decide how to use that time.

HTH!


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

for the replies!

Artparent -- cool that you are an INFP too. You are a very very organized INFP IMO







. I like what you've said about routines, but I guess my problem is that once the kids and I have done the basics of eating, teeth brushing, dressing, and prepping for outings we've kind of run out of time and compliance (on the kids' parts) for other aspects of routine that I would like to follow. We do outings every day for exercise, etc. to prevent cabin fever (especially on the kids' parts). When the kids have "quiet" (DVD) time I can grab a bit of time to do "my" stuff, but that usually ends up being tidying time, or starting dinner, or checking emails, etc. Getting a meal made is always a challenge on the days when dh is not around before dinner. Basically when my kids are not having quiet time, I am pretty "on" with them unless I am sneaking away for 5 minutes at a time to do tasks -- basically I don't get away with much more than that under usual circumstances. When they are playing outside I generally don't find that I can get anything done. Inevitably the the kids need my supervision. All that to say that I have a routine written down, but I find it very hard to follow...there doesn't seem to be enough time to tidy up and do basic self care. For example, my goal was to do 10 min of exercise a day and I haven't been successful with that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artparent* 
i work really well with a timer, so that i spend 15 minutes on housework, 15 on paperwork or my own work, and then 15 on something i would really like to do but rarely let myself do.

I've been trying to do that kind of thing more. I think you're onto something with that. So many of my pursuits (including self care) have a "bottomless pit" feeling to them, so using a timer and breaking up the time is probably the solution to that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artparent* 
i dream of small amounts of regular childcare









:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artparent* 
it helps me if i can meet my own needs in the presence of my children

That part is hard for me. Being an introvert, it's hard for me to recharge my batteries when I have *two* children talking constantly now.

Piglet, Dh and I did have a schedule for years -- we "split" up all the time that he was not firefighting and had it all mapped out. It was great in that it provided some predictability and it also forced dh to step up to the plate as a father in ways that many fathers never have the opportunity to experience. Things have shifted a bit recently. Due to dh's personal struggles, I have reduced my expectations of the amount of childcare that he does and I try to let him decide how much child care he is willing to do. When he is having trouble coping, it really doesn't work to have him to childcare. The other thing is that he is really in workaholic mode with his side business and now feels that is he "always" working, so the whole "fairness" principle doesn't work as well now (especially because I am between consulting projects due to the economic downturn).

All that to say that dh's childcare efforts are even less predictable now. A challenge that I have always found with our childcare sharing arrangement is that I have had trouble developing self-care habits because his help isn't on a daily/weekly schedule. I might find myself with a couple of hours to play with, but then I look at all the things I could do -- exercise, housework, responding to emails, following through on various minor commitments, homeschooling stuff, etc. I find that organizing my children's lives actually takes a fair amount of time -- time that comes out of my "me" time. Then when I have a project like preparing for a birthday party, it sucks *all* of my free time for days and then it can take me a week just to catch up on housework, etc. (we're talking the basics here). Self-care doesn't usually make it to the top of the list - partly because it isn't a habit.

The most protected time that I have each day is after 8 PM when my kids are sleeping, but unfortunately my dd is still a terrible sleeper. Some nights I get a lot done, but other nights I pay for it and fall asleep myself when they do (fully clothed







). I really find it hard to exercise or meditate in the evening. It seems like I have to really rev myself up to do anything productive (I can usually manage housework now that that's more of a habit).

I hope this doesn't sound whiny. I am really trying to figure out why I don't take care of myself and make the appropriate changes.


----------



## artparent (Jun 8, 2005)

hey ksenia, i want to respond with more ideas, but my folks were visiting for a couple of weeks and with their departure i am bereft - and feel unequal to the most basic of things needing to get done. i can definitely see that the positive pattern can shift to a negative pattern, and get stuck there. once i am exercising i am also more likely to continue, and to get on top of other things. when i am feeling better (or in order to feel better) i will probably need to set a timer and do my work-around, where i spend 5 minutes in tiny physical areas (one section of the kitchen counter, one shelf, one small pile of laundry) and also 5 minutes with other very small tasks that are more mental tasks. don't underestimate sleep-deprivation, or just plain interruption of an evening, on your energy level. i'm quite certain that my running in the last 3 months is almost exclusively due to nightweaning + more continuous sleep at night. my very strict anti-candida diet has also helped me a lot.

oddly enough, today i have finished the major part of a sweater i have been knitting for a couple of years! and just need to rib the collar and arms..i guess i just needed the right moment to finally finish it - the kind of moment when i don't feel like i will be productive anyway, so why not do something i long to have time for! i have been realising how overwhelmed i get when i start things and don't finish them, i begin to feel something of a failure, and so i've set about identifying which unfinished projects are bugging me, and trying to focus on them. i felt intimidated enough by this sweater that i though if i could finish it, i can probably also finish my animated film, among other things i mean to do!









*


----------



## artparent (Jun 8, 2005)

piglet, do your kids let you get much done around home, or how do you get things done? is your partner available much?

*


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Artparent, I really like how you tackle things and I appreciate your sharing your process for getting back on track. Night-weaning. Ugh...that's something that I feel I *should* do something about







.


----------



## hollydlr (May 17, 2007)

Ksenia - I'm an INFP too, though I only have one DC so far and he is not quite 2. Still, I read your post with a pang of familiarity! I have also been trying to hone in on what I want to do for self-care - I easily get stretched too thin with committments, on top of being a full-time mom and homemaker... I get run down, overwhelmed, and the basic stuff falls by the wayside. I also try to catch up after DS goes to bed, but I end up kind of lost, I'm usually too tired to be focused, and I crave self-care so much that I justify taking that time for myself - like mostly messing around online or watching tv - instead of actually catching up on the house or projects...

I think I have narrowed down a few things that I really want to commit to for myself - we are moving soon, so the transition will hopefully be a good time to try to get in a new routine. Also I will not have any outside involvements because we will be in a new place and not know anyone...

1) join a gym that has daycare so I can go work out without having to rely on someone else to watch DS. I almost want to turn around and run away from this one because I cannot stand the thought of working out in public like that but I really think its the only way I'm going to be able to be consistent about it. My DH's schedule is irregular too, and if I rely on him to give me time, I won't get it as much as I need it...

2) go to the chiropractor, acupuncturist, and massage therapist on a regular basis. I think these would help me feel physically better, and help keep my stress down. As an introvert, I seem to do pretty well with these one-on-one kinds of things, esp if I don't _have_ to talk... Its much more rejunvenating for me than going out for girl's night all the time or whatever... I mean, I like girl's night, but its not restorative like that for me...

3) Focus on eating right. I know all the things I should and shouldn't eat, but I get so busy/tired/overwhelmed that I don't cook as often as I should and we end up eating out too much. Making food a top priority is not really my idea of a good time, but I know how much better I feel when I do, not just because I'm not eating crap, but also because I don't feel guilty about it...

I am just trying to get rid of the guilt of feeling like I am being selfish for wanting some of these things for myself, esp because they cost money. But I am also really tired of feeling strung out, and like I am giving myself dry, kwim? Hope some of these things might help you too - now to just put them into practice! That is the hard part! It seems impossible to strip away all the junk and actually make time for new priorities!


----------



## teale (Feb 20, 2009)

Ironically, I have a list of self-care suggestions sitting next to me. I'm in an abuse survivor group right now, and part of learning to recover from that is learning to take care of yourself.

Self-care for me is sort of two fold. I think there is a physical aspect; making sure you eat when you are hungry, taking time to be sexual, exercising, sleeping, massages, swimming, etc. The other thing I try to do when I'm feeling really strung out, is turn all electronics off. I take a day-cation away from my computer, the phone, and just focus on the house, taking DS out, or reading.

Psychologically speaking, like I mentioned, I read, I also go to therapy on at least a monthly basis. I write in a journal, and I sometimes meditate.

I find the hardest part is finding the time to do it. I try to get a bit of time in each day, but it's not always possible.

Anyway, good luck and good for you for recognizing that it's something you need to work on!


----------



## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Wow. This really hits home. I'm an INFP and I was just sitting in the doctor's office yesterday telling her how my self-care has gone from good to nil since Lu was born almost four years ago. (Case in point, I had my post-partum visit and then nothing, and I think I've been to a regular doc twice.) Oddly, I'm an outgoing INFP and a teacher to boot, so I'm practically desperate at the end of the day to recharge, and that's when Lu needs me the most. Sigh. Add to that the fact that she's a night owl and I'm a morning person, so it's an amazing night when I can stay awake an hour after she falls asleep!

Anyway, the one thing I do, pathetic as it sounds, is grocery shop. I'm really into food and cooking, and shopping is a real pleasure for me. As much as possible, I try to get DH to keep the kid so I can go off and shop on my own. And now that my farm market is open for the season, I'm even happier.

This is a really interesting conversation, Ksenia. Thanks for starting it!


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Thanks for chiming in INFP mamas







. It's really interesting to hear about your ideas about self-care and what works for you...or what you would like to try. I hope that other mamas will join the conversation too







.


----------



## widemouthedfrog (Mar 9, 2006)

Hello from another INFP, Ksenia. Like the previous poster, I am also very extroverted in my work and need a lot of time to unwind. Like you, my dh is not really available for child care - maybe an hour each day, including the weekends (he is doing graduate studies). I do WOH 2-3 days a week and the grandparents do child care, and I only have one child who is less high-needs than your ds, I think. Though I find that any child is pretty tiring when you are "on" most of your at home hours!

Things I've done to help:

* I like the idea of scheduling regular appointments to go to the chiropractor, etc. I have to do a lot of doctor's appointments anyway, so this helps with my physical well being.

* Drinking water. I am trying to have a water bottle with me all of the time. I get cranky when I am actually thirsty.

* Making meals that have leftovers that can be used the next day.

* Taking one to two days a week as "at home" days when we mostly putter around the house, in the garden, and don't need to go anywhere. We have so much focus on getting out of the house most mornings, and this causes conflict if I don't remain centred, which can be hard when I feel pressure to go somewhere.

* Taking time to write in the evenings. I do small writing contracts on an ongoing basis, because I (mostly) enjoy this and it gives me an excuse and pressure to do something that I enjoy.

* This fall, I plan to take one day a month to have brunch with my parents, do a couple of doctor's appointments, and run large errands. I think that even one day a month is a huge help and will reduce the amount of errand-running that I do with dd.

* I bring dd with me to things that we both enjoy. For example, we go to community gardening. Having hobbies is essential for me. She has done this since birth, so she is used to it. I would find this more challenging with two, though.

* Having caring and supportive communities of people around me who care about me and can support me in tangible ways. These people don't demand participation from me but embrace participation when it happens.

* For me, WOH is essential to my mental health. At least in my current job. It's the only time I am not "on" with dd, and since I have a group of lovely, funny, and relaxed colleagues, even when work is stressful and coming and going to work are stressful, I'm glad to be there. That said, I also have to balance this with enough at home days (see above).

I would like to make more time to read fiction. That's one of my goals for the upcoming year.


----------



## vancouverlori (Sep 5, 2003)

Hmmm, one site says I'm INFP, another ENFP. Sorta depends on the questions - especially the ones where you instinctively pick the "socially correct" answer and then realize that's not really you...

My youngest (Calvin) is almost 6, and I'm only now starting to get into much self-care beyond basic personal hygiene. Oh, and the singing, but that's been a priority from the first time I went...

It IS hard to fit everything in that we want to fit in. All we want is everything and we want it now!









Housework isn't really one of my priorities, but it is one of DH's, so I'm trying to do more of my share to keep the peace... so I do more tidying and dishes than I used to. At least in the kitchen. Our living room homeschool table is, well, a sh*t pile. As is any other exposed horizontal surface. I just really don't let myself stress about it. I keep half that table clear so Calvin has space to do a few things, and the rest... Sometimes I think I ought to do something about it, but then I realize that as much as I might be a wee bit happier when it's neat, I really don't care enough to do anything about it. Reading a little fiction adds way more to my personal pleasure quotient.

Another thing we're doing is transitioning away from having Calvin fall asleep when we're with him. Night weaning may offer you some of the same advantages. And who knows, maybe your youngest will sleep better when she doesn't nurse at night because she'll produce less pee to wake her up? If you're starting to feel like that's something you want to expend energy on, then you may want to go with that. Currently, we're at the stage where we snuggle a bit and do our usual settling down things, and then I go outside his door, tell him a little story with the door cracked open, and then I say goodnight, close the door, and read my book outside his door with a booklight. He knows I'm there, but I can stay awake and creep away once I hear him snoring. We had done this months ago, and I rejoiced over evenings regained with DH. Then he "regressed" a little, so we went back to sleeping with him, but now whatever it was is over, and we're going back to what it was. Two steps forward, one step back...

The other thing that worked well for me: I had Calvin signed up for a soccer class at the community centre and I would head over to the gym for a little workout. Of course now that's over, so I gotta figure out how else to do that. And your DD is too young to leave her at an activity... But it will come in time...

Ksenia, would it help your DH if you did some of the administrative stuff for his home business while he does childcare? It might not give you any more free time, but it might add to positive feelings which might help him take on more childcare or housework?

But overall, I'm struggling too. I am lazy, so none of this comes naturally at all. Except the sitting-around-and-reading-books, that's right up my alley. I try to minimize or avoid big projects, because they just cause more stress than they're worth because I just get so caught up in all the details. Details which seem really important at the time, but really, a few months later, are irrelevant. Though we do have to paint and re-floor this Summer... I got offered full-time work over the Summer (when Calvin can go have fun at Daycamps), so this time I'm just going to pay someone else to do it because I surely am never going to get around to it. Having less cat barf stains on the floor will likely do wonders for my sense of well-being.







But I'm still dreading all the chaos and prep work...

Does your DH really understand (despite his issues) that you need time for yourself too? That it's as big a priority to the family (i.e. him too) that _you_ get some time as it is for him to go to work? Sometimes I really think you're a saint, Ksenia...

(Sorry, I ramble... maybe it's not helpful, but maybe it might be...)


----------



## artparent (Jun 8, 2005)

widemouth, i realise that i do the same thing with our days, making sure there's at least one or two days when we don't have to go out anywhere. i'm scaling up my search for someone to give me some help around here regularly, time i can depend on to catch up on housework, my own work, getting out for a run. it is good for me to identify what really makes me feel good! i really miss quietly knitting at a café with other mamas, that was so wonderful and really made me feel better. writing is also crucial for me and always has been my retreat. i got out for a run today, and it really is quite amazing to just focus on running and listening to music







skype/ichat also really saves me, just talking alone with a friend for a while will completely restore me.

*


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Ahh, it's so interesting to read your thoughts my INFP sisters







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vancouverlori* 
Hmmm, one site says I'm INFP, another ENFP.

In the real Myers Briggs test you get assessed as to where you lie on the I<-->E gradient. Being acquainted with you, it wouldn't surprise me if you have both qualities.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vancouverlori* 
I am lazy, so none of this comes naturally at all. Except the sitting-around-and-reading-books, that's right up my alley.

See, that sounds like typical INFP-ish-ness to me, not laziness. It's very hard for me to accept in myself, but I think that my need for unstructured time to myself to escape a bit is part of my personality type. I've beaten myself up a lot about it when I've had problems procrastinating, etc. but really I need to just accept who I am and learn what self-care means for me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vancouverlori* 
Ksenia, would it help your DH if you did some of the administrative stuff for his home business while he does childcare? It might not give you any more free time, but it might add to positive feelings which might help him take on more childcare or housework?

I would be reluctant to do that. Dh's business is partly hobby, and I have concerns about the huge amount of time that he is spending on it. It brings some income in and that definitely benefits our family, but any "work" time that I have I want to spend on my own career, which I'm not spending as much time on as I would like to.

I just want to clarify...I'm not a saint







. Dh actually does do serious parenting -- and he often takes the kids out of the house for 2-3 hours at a time, which is my definition of heaven







. It's just that 1. that doesn't happen as much as it used to, 2. there is more calendar chaos because dh is pretty much booking himself for a lot of stuff, and 3. I think that for the ages of my children I am able to do a lot less housework/emailing/phone calls, etc. while looking after my kids that most mothers do. So when I do have lovely stretches of "me" time, I have to get serious about cooking/housework/organizational tasks or else things get totally chaotic. For example, in the next week I have to fit in approx 8 hours of reporting for homeschooling -- that won't happen when my kids are happily playing by themselves, because that rarely happens. That will either happen during precious "me" time or after the kids go to bed. I do get some stuff done while looking after the kids, but usually that is done in 5 minute bursts -- no more. Also, we spend a lot of time on outings (to prevent kids having cabin fever) and obviously I don't get any tasks done during that time.

I am making more of an effort to keep my home in order. Like Flylady says, when your home is in chaos, it's like having a neglected child constantly tugging at your skirts -- it's a distraction from being able to focus on the kids and my marriage and things that are important. Since focus is already a challenge for me (I think I have the non-H type of ADHD), part of self care for me is avoiding living in chaos. But I am stumped when I try to prioritize direct self care vs doing stuff for the kids (planning/homeschooling stuff, etc) vs. just keeping the home in order.

Reading about many of you enjoying writing makes me realize that I enjoy writing too -- but I think that the kind of writing that I'm doing now is one of the most satisying types of writing that I've done. It feels connecting, but as an Introvert it doesn't have the draining aspects of interacting with people IRL







. I miss participating in MDC -- I spend very little time here compared to before. It does feel like self care, but again I have trouble evaluating the importance of it relative to other ways of spending my time.


----------



## artparent (Jun 8, 2005)

oh yes, did i not say that this place=self care!? definitely, and facebook, particularly when i connect with people, even for a moment. the telephone, letters. what kind of writing are you doing, or do you mean this thread and others like it?

thank you for more observations about needing unstructured time/lazy time. i definitely have noticed lately that i charge up my batteries writing, planning, talking, reading, and when i do have a moment of energy + time i am very, very effective with it. i do a TON of planning. my art practice has altered a lot because i tend to plan, plan, plan, then make very quickly. what happens though is that i wonder why i can't just make things happen quickly, all the time, because the making seems so effortless...when actually i was plotting it out for ages.

something that really helps me with things like housework is to visualise to the detail how i want a space to look - helpful to have achieved this at some point, to review - and then i just go for it with that goal in mind. so, i imagine the kitchen counters clear, i imagine all the white cups of different shapes hanging in a shining line...i get tremendous energy from visual things so imagining them in advance really helps, particularly when i cannot actually see those counters! and would just be overwhelmed.

ksenia, it sounds brutally difficult to have so little time with your children playing happily independently, or together. i really rely on that and get frustrated when it doesn't happen. i hope it begins to happen for you soon, and often.

er, like now!!! bye!

*


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Yes, I meant writing like in this thread







-- it's not Hemingway or anything, just a satisfying way of communicating.

I spend a lot of time visualizing my spaces -- but only recently having I been doing more to actually make my visions become concrete.


----------



## widemouthedfrog (Mar 9, 2006)

oh! i forgot two things.
one is that dd and I go to church (Unitarian) while dh has time by himself on Sunday mornings. Church is a great way for me to be quiet and spiritual and actually make time to do this. I did spend 1.5 years sitting in the class with dd before I could sit in the service for the entire time, though. Early this year she decided that she was ok going to class on her own.







:

And last year, my quiet time was running with dd in the jogging stroller as she took her nap, since I was training for a marathon. This year I am trying to get our trail a bike on so that we can have quiet outdoor time together biking. I try to think of an activity that involves me exercising and being quiet and dd being somewhat quiet and content. It's a little difficult, but it's worth it for the quiet time/exercise.


----------



## vancouverlori (Sep 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artparent* 
something that really helps me with things like housework is to visualise to the detail how i want a space to look - helpful to have achieved this at some point, to review - and then i just go for it with that goal in mind.

Wow - big lightbulb moment for me! That never occurred to me. I've never seen this place tidy in any sort of way except when we looked at it before we moved in. (And even then the previous owners had the drawers and cupboards stuffed to the gills!!!). I also hate the floors and walls, so that makes it hard for me to care much about what it looks like... I might even clean each spot and take a picture of what it's "supposed" to look like... Thanks!

Yeah, Ksenia, I was wondering how that "reporting" was going... again, one of the reasons I'm hesitant about New West Homelearners... Though I do tend to do mine in spurts too, and it seems to take forever each time. (I take pictures of everything and post it all on albums on photobucket. Partly 'cuz my camera works way better than my scanner.) It mostly gets done in the wee hours.

And as for the laziness... yeah, it's not all lazing around. I am a thinker, and sometimes I get so busy thinking I forget to DO. Or can't make a decision as to how I should DO something.

I do hope that soon your kids will get to the "strong independent play" stage. That makes a huge difference for me. Lately Calvin spends most of his days pretending to be a Star Wars Clone Trooper. Today he very proudly bought a Clone Trooper costume (with mask and belt and some water guns) with his money from allowance and helping with recycling containers. He hasn't taken it off except to go to his skating lesson.


----------



## artparent (Jun 8, 2005)

that's great lori.
i cannot live with things i don't like, floors, walls, and will spend huge amounts of time, energy and money to alter them. having a landlord is pretty interesting that way, but i am lucky to have one that generally agrees with me and with even pay for some thing, tra la laa!
i finally found the energy (or rather, my girls had a friend over for several hours so i was compelled) to tidy up the house now that my dad finished our new shelves in a closet, and i have to open it up every time i walk by, just to look at everything nicely folded, with enough room for everyone's things.







it gives me tremendous energy. i really like the artist's way as a process that supports these sources of energy, and these bits of creativity, where it isn't taking away from more important work but rather all contributing to greater work. therefore my tomato seedlings and my pebbled path and my linen tablecloth that can be wiped clean, are all contributions to my greater work.
ksenia, have you seen the writer of eat, pray, love, speak on ted.com? that talk really helped me - it is definitely informed by the artist's way view of the world. sometimes just taking myself out of the equation a little helps me to take care of the things i need to take care of without taking it so personally - as if i've failed if things are messy and i'm unhappy, or as if i'm totally responsible for getting out to a yoga class and cleaning my house (like today!). some things just fall into alignment when they do, and best to let go a little along the way. easier said than done!!

*


----------



## tiffani (May 17, 2002)

I'm coming in a little late here, but was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for ksenia to encourage her lo's to play on their own a bit more -- ksenia have you tried different strategies for this or does it just get worse when you actively seek it? I ask because dex is very sensitive and often the thing I really need him to do is the last thing he is able to do if he feels that I am pushing him away from me -- I really have to just forget about my need for a while (truly and completely, not resentfully) and give him what he needs, and over time he will make the shift. I think that because my kids have always had the option of playing with each other, they have never looked to me for entertainment. they either play together or on their own, and that's one of those blessings I count on a daily basis, especially as they get older -- the only trouble I have with making time for exercise is lack of motivation to get to yoga, as it's right at dinner time, and no classes on the weekend. it makes it so rushed and awkward and really like I'm stealing time, and it just doesn't work very well. it *could* work if I wanted it to, of course







. I love yoga once I'm there, but the process of getting there prevents me from doing it most of the time. It's a pretty lame excuse, really









mostly I just want to stress that it does get easier as they get older. I always thought "older" meant like 3 or 4, for SURE by 5 they were "older" but I'm just really seeing things get pretty dang easy for us now that they're 7 and 9. I think our shift more towards RU has also helped -- we have virtually eliminated battles about just about everything, and my kids finally trust that we're on their side, making life so much more pleasant for all of us, more cooperation, etc. mostly, though, I think it's the age thing









I agree that self-care is important, but I almost felt like the pressure that society puts on mamas to make sure they take care of themselves is almost worse than just finding a way to chill out and enjoy your kids. I've never, ever been good at self-care, but it only ever bothered and stressed me out when I was working really hard to make it happen, and making us all miserable in the process. Now that my kids are older, it's much easier for mark and I to have pretty much all the time we need to do whatever we want, (outside of his massive work hours) and to still have family time, etc. It might sound sad, but it sort of took lowering my expectations in order to find happiness with what we DO have, yk?


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tiffani* 
ksenia have you tried different strategies for this or does it just get worse when you actively seek it?

I have tried various things, but maybe I am missing some strategies? The most success I've had is setting a timer, and alternating between 5 min with the kids and 5 min accomplishing tasks in the same room with them (tidying/cooking usually). I doesn't seem to get worse when I seek it -- I don't think that my kids take it personally when I am trying to do stuff.

Bottom line is that they are extroverts (ENFP and ENFJ) and I am an introvert. Ds is very resistant to playdates with any other homelearning families, so socially he is restricted to his neighbour friends and his parents and dd. The neighbour friends have busy school and family lives, and dd and ds are only just barely starting to play together at 3 and 5.5. Most of the time, that leaves me to fill their bottomless pit of wanting to talk and interact. Even waiting 5 minutes to have my attention is often very hard for them.

It's true that I often think of my kids as being "older"







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tiffani* 
I agree that self-care is important, but I almost felt like the pressure that society puts on mamas to make sure they take care of themselves is almost worse than just finding a way to chill out and enjoy your kids.

I know what you mean. OTOH, I feel internally driven to pursue some type of self-renewal process now that I don't have any babies. Also with my marriage being on shaky ground, I need to feel more solid as an individual. We've been working on things, but there are areas where the necessary shifting isn't happening. So I feel that I have to shift...that's all I can do right now.


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

artparent, I'l definitely check out that video -- thanks.


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

The Intuitive Function and Physical Exercise:

Quote:

Extraverted Intuition
ENTP, ENFP, INTP, INFP

Extraverted intuition in the dominant or auxiliary position is stimulated by the outer world of new ideas and possibilities. Extraverted intuitives are constantly in search of the widest range of new opportunities. They prefer "something else going on" when exercising are attracted to exercise that occurs inside a philosophy goal, idea, or purpose depending on whether the auxiliary is Thinking or Feeling. People with extraverted intuition report following the following approach to physical exercise:

* An efficient approach to exercise
* Convenience is important
* Often try to disguise exercise
* Can ignore physical needs and easily forget to exercise
* Can easily become bored with exercise routine

[...]

INTP, INFP

Those with extraverted intuition in the auxiliary position are attracted to exercise that provides them with energy and is consistent with their internal logic or values. Aside from the flexibility and enjoyment of exercising alone, these dominant introverted thinking and feeling types often report enjoying exercise that allows for "solitary activities with other people." When the dominant is thinking, the attraction is to exercise that enables them to accomplish their self-defined goals and use their strategic thinking. When the dominant is feeling, exercise must have personal meaning and be aligned with their personal values.
Exercise and Play the INFP Way

James carefully and with affection described his tow modes of exercise for the summer. He characterized one mode as, disciplined aerobically," involving a three-mile jog, three to four days a week. James, a former marathoner, stated, "It is important to me to never get so I can't run a 5K race at any time."

The other mode of activity James described as, "not aerobically aggressive but I'm not sitting around either." In this mode, James, a 47-year old psychologist, fishes in a river near his office as frequently as he can, kayaks tow to three times a week with brined, bikes ten to fifteen miles, and walks with his wife.

"Kayaking and biking are fun, and I enjoy walking with my wife. It is exercise for her, and I get to spend to spend time with my wife."

For James, "Exercise is about being as alive as I can possibly be. Play is the most spiritual thing I can do." James love gadgets and gear, describing himself as a "major gear head."

When I asked what types of exercise/exercise environments turn him off, James was clear. "I don't like football, baseball, or team sports in general, although I've always liked volleyball."

James ends to stay away from fitness centers and organized classes. "I would never go to an aerobics or spinning class. I hate the idea of a drill sergeant in the front of the room yelling, "Go! Go! Go! Push yourselves harder, harder!"

"I've got to be having fun. No thanks to boot camp, "James said, laughing as we finished our interview on a beautiful sunny day on a park bench in Burlington, Vermont".


----------



## tiffani (May 17, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia* 
I know what you mean. OTOH, I feel internally driven to pursue some type of self-renewal process now that I don't have any babies. Also with my marriage being on shaky ground, I need to feel more solid as an individual. We've been working on things, but there are areas where the necessary shifting isn't happening. So I feel that I have to shift...that's all I can do right now.









I know what you mean too.









I do hope you find the shift you're looking for, and it will get easier, your kids are still pretty little, take it easy on yourself...


----------



## vancouverlori (Sep 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia* 
Bottom line is that they are extroverts (ENFP and ENFJ) and I am an introvert. Ds is very resistant to playdates with any other homelearning families, so socially he is restricted to his neighbour friends and his parents and dd. The neighbour friends have busy school and family lives, and dd and ds are only just barely starting to play together at 3 and 5.5. Most of the time, that leaves me to fill their bottomless pit of wanting to talk and interact. Even waiting 5 minutes to have my attention is often very hard for them.

Well, the extrovert thing is hard. It would appear that Calvin has figured out that he can talk to himself. He talks non-stop during any and all activities. Occasionally I get a little embarassed, but mostly it's sorta cute. Even during skating lessons or hockey classes, he's out there, by himself, muttering away. Yours may discover this any day.

The "5 minute" alternation thing could be stretched over time... if you can work up to 15 minutes, that should work well - I know I'd seen several "Flylady testimonials" about moms doing that.

Also, sadly, I DO use TV, which might not interest your DD, but your DS should be intrigued if you can find the right stuff. Right now we've still got our free trial of all the digital channels, and Calvin is LOVING Popular Mechanics for Kids. Also Zula Patrol, which does have some science teaching integrated in it. We use our PVR to record shows he likes that we approve of, and then he can watch those whenever. Also the Clone Wars, though we only watch that with him. He'd watch tons of other stuff, but we do try to be selective. We also find stuff we enjoyed as kids on YouTube. So he likes Transformers and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (both the original series) and a little Bugs Bunny. TV is not necessarily evil, but we do have a rule about no TV or video games before 3 pm. And DH (who is evidently not opposed to such things) bought us a Wii. This has overall been a good thing, but it took a long time for Calvin to be able to play his favourite game (Lego Star Wars) by himself. That one is fun because it's multi-player and low on the frustration since if you lose all your "health", you just keep coming back right where you are instead of having to start over. Sometimes he'll even play Wii Fit, though the only one he can do successfully is the jogging (you jog in place with the motion sensitive controller in your pocket). Otherwise, the Wii Fit isn't much use with little ones.

Another thing I did a lot when Calvin was younger, was I'd start something with him, Lego or blocks or whatever, and once he got into the flow of it, I'd gradually disengage myself and eventually leave the immediate vicinity. He'd often ask me to come back, but if it was just a minor complaint, sometimes I'd try to re-direct him back to what he was doing. Now he will initiate play on his own, but for a long time, I initiated it. Also, we generally have a fair bit of junk around that he loves to play with, making up all kinds of stuff. Not crafts, just imaginative play. There's also a slightly neglected little boy down the street who comes by to play sometimes and that is HUGE since DD (at 14) isn't much for playing. And he's a little older and doesn't let Calvin push him around, but doesn't push Calvin around either. I like the fact that he's a little "wild". I'm never sure whether I think his mom is stupid or brave.









Making sure Calvin is well-fed and doesn't have to pee also helps. Things go less well when he's getting ready for a growth spurt and is hungry all the time.

I'm curious - what makes your DS resistant to playdates with other homelearning kids? ETA: I find Calvin likes to go over to other kids houses to play with their toys - the kids are irrelevant. I vaguely recall the same attraction from when I was little.


----------



## intentionalmama (Aug 23, 2008)

Hi Ksenia,
Sending you a wave from down the road in Burnaby. I am also an INFP. This thread is interesting as I see myself in so many of the traits people describe. I started exercising a few years ago at a gym and what energised me was the music I played. I made a tape (it took me hours to record) but I used that same tape for every single work out for at least 6 years. It was as if the music took me out of myself and I really felt great and had a good workout). I didnt' even care that I was probably the only one using a soni walkman with huge earphones. Then my tape broke a few months ago, and I didn't know what to do. Well, I have since got an ipod (still use the big earphones - find the small ones hurt) and have a new set of songs I am listening to. Not as good, but I find when I hit the U2 songs, I am once again transported. I think it is my Mother's Irish roots that some how connect me. Also, psychologically exercising helped as I felt I was doing something my body needed.

The other thing I do is go to an evening meditation group once every two weeks. My dh stays with ds and even though there are times I don't feel like going - I am always glad that I did. This also helps me, when I am feelings stressed with dh or something else - I usually find I come back feeling more open and understanding. My group may be ending so I am considering taking an African drumming class in the evening with chanting as I find this surprizingly very meditatiional.

One other thought, is on Friday's I drop my son off at a Waldorf type playgroup with a wonderful woman who is so good with the children. This also allows me to have four hours to myself. THis is usually when I hit the gym, etc. Not sure if we can keep doing this because of finanacial constrictions, but it sure has felt good at the end of the week to have this time.

Lesley


----------



## artparent (Jun 8, 2005)

i'd like to disagree that you don't have babies, and wholeheartedly agree that 7 + is the easiest!! my 3.5 year old (as of last weekend) is in a major shift. we've spent the last 6 months with her saying NOOOO, let's drop dd off at the park, i can't go, i have a HUGE FEVER! well, today she told me all about how she would ride her balance bike round and round, bring black bear and things to dig with, and stop for snacks. when it rained (briefly, it is seriously spring) she say ohhhhh! that's tooo baaaaaad! honestly, it is a 180 degrees, and exactly what my first did. i could not contemplate a second child until just after 3.5, because i was worn out like i had a newborn. give it some time, ksenia, hopefully you'll see a sea change.

on the other hand, goodness, can you find a babysitter to take them to class, i'm going to do that!!

*


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vancouverlori* 
The "5 minute" alternation thing could be stretched over time... if you can work up to 15 minutes, that should work well - I know I'd seen several "Flylady testimonials" about moms doing that.

That's how I got the idea







, but I figured out pretty fast that 5 minutes was the max for now. Even then I often have to repeat several times "wait for the ding" while I'm doing my work (and trying to retrieve my brain).

We don't have cable, and we're in a pretty good routine with letting the kids watch a library DVD during quiet time -- though there isn't a great selection unfortunately. Because of my own hardcore anti-tv mother I feel guilty doing even this, but it works for me to have a break and it also seems to work for *them* to be able to switch into a more passive mode for a while.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vancouverlori* 
I'm curious - what makes your DS resistant to playdates with other homelearning kids? ETA: I find Calvin likes to go over to other kids houses to play with their toys - the kids are irrelevant. I vaguely recall the same attraction from when I was little.

Ds is really a people person -- he would be interested in the toys, but he is very sensitive to the people dynamics. It's hard for him to get over a hump of not knowing a kid very well. Sometimes he'll spontaneously get into playing with another homelearner by chance, and when we were at the DL daycamp he was really into bonding with another boy from his class (who he had never mentioned to me before), but that can be hard to engineer. The two children that he loves to play with here are both 2 years older than him, and they are both calm, grounded, and know how to manage him. He has also known them his entire life -- they are more like cousins and he wants to play with them exclusively. There's a real comfort zone there. Most of his potential homelearner friends are closer in age to him, and/or have their own quirks. Although Wolfgang can dish out irrational or hostile behaviour, he's quite sensitive to being on the receiving end of those. I'm assuming that this will shift over time, but it's disappointing that I don't often have the chance to get my own social needs met while Wolfi is socializing. Because the social interactions here are more informal, it's rare that I get to do stuff while children are playing -- there's a lot of problem-solving that happens with outdoor play, and children come over here much more often that the reverse. We've even stopped going to Hula Hoot because ds' behaviour was deteriorating there. Ds is really into intense one-on-one interactions, so if a potential homelearner playmate has siblings, that also seems to be problem for ds -- more social interactions to navigate.

*intentionalmama* -- thanks for sharing about your self-care...it sounds like you have it figured out! Music does sound like a good strategy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artparent* 
i'd like to disagree that you don't have babies









I'll give it some time.

Thanks for all the support. I'm getting lots of food for thought here.


----------



## artparent (Jun 8, 2005)

we use film + tv programs a LOT, particularly in the winter. with my partner and i both media folks, it is part of our lives. i find that my older one is much more amenable to turning it off and getting into other things when i suggest it, but the younger one is just so tired sometimes, phasing out naps, and that's what we tend to do when she's tired. as she is more able to do more things, i can lessen their use of it a bit, trade in audiobooks or reading time. i sometimes feel guilty about it, when it seems like hours are going by, but i can see they learn from all the films too, and we talk about what we see..i don't usually have a problem with it, and it quite definitely helps me parent better - this morning they got up to watch a program i recorded for them, and i got to sleep in a little, since my tall girl made breakfast (just yogurt) and we were all happy with that, especially since my partner is away and i get stretched. we spent the whole day outside after painting + came home to write letters, so there's lots of balance as i see it. sometimes i'll put a program on just to help them quiet down after a very busy day, or if i really need to go take a bath...or get some work done! i'd prefer they were playing with other children more than most anything else, but it will take some time for us to even meet that many in our new place!

*


----------



## widemouthedfrog (Mar 9, 2006)

I totally agree about having playmates several years older. Dd currently plays with our neighbour a lot, and she is 7 1/2. She knows how to deal with an almost-four-year-old who is very bossy!

The only similar-age children who are easy for dd to get along with are a 5 year old who is quite introverted (ie: dd can boss her a bit) and another 3 year old who is an extremely good negotiator. Though I have a child who is similar to me (combo introvert/extrovert, but more introverted), she is also very bossy at the moment. So I need to mediate sometimes. We are lucky in that our townhouse complex has children who are mostly older than dd, and since they've grown up with her they like to play with her.

As intentionalmama said, I echo the one day (a week, or a month like I'm going to do). Having that errand/catch up/self care time is really important.

And like Tiffani said, I find that I don't need time AWAY as much as I need time that is non-pressured and not "on". However, it sounds like you're "on" a lot when you're with your children.


----------



## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Even though I'm not INFP I'm enjoying this conversation. However, I confess to feeling a wee bit guilty b/c my children are almost entirely self-entertained during the day. They play together a LOT, and DD will seek out books or workbooks or drawing - whatever her mood is. They only occasionally ask me directly to do something with them, so my problem is the opposite of yours Ksenia - I have to deliberately engage with my kids; sometimes a whole day goes by and I realize I haven't interacted with them other than mealtimes or running errands!









I, too, happen to think you're quite a hero Ksenia.







Although I worry for you, too. From where I'm sitting you are recognizing your DH's "personal issues" and his "hobby" without giving your own stuff equal weight. You say that sometimes when DH is not in the right frame of mind, having him do childcare doesn't work out so well. But I'm wondering if he needs to work through this with the kids on his own. They will sort it out together and it is their relationship with him. I simply don't think your current arrangement is very fair to you and I think you need to insist that your DH sacrifice some more of his time. If he wants to have his hobby, that's great, but seems like the extra money isn't worth what you are paying personally. I wonder if being INFP means not pushing for what you really need?









You said that it gets hard to use what "me time" you have effectively because there is always so much to do, and some of it gets done on your "me time" even when it is not stuff for you: the thing about having the schedule is you can plan out your week/weeks/month of "me time" to better organize your time. For example, you might have 2 hours here, another 2 hours there, and then the following week get 3 hours in one go: knowing this you can break down your tasks or desired activities within these scheduled times so that when you go to sit down you aren't in that "me time panic" that I remember so well when I was busier - when I had an hour or two to myself I was in such a panic to "do something" that sometimes I was just paralyzed!


----------



## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Oh, I also wondered about you getting a playmate for DS. Perhaps an older boy who would come and play and let you get some work done? I know you tried a Mother's Helper but perhaps if it was an older boy it might appeal to DS? I'm sure you've thought of this but it doesn't hurt to throw it out there!


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Piglet, I think an older boy might be a great playmate for ds -- though dd is quite the busy and talkative bee now as well and she often gets left out of big boy play.

I see what you're saying about fairness issues with dh. Dh does have a lot on his plate though. Right now he is earning 85% of our family income and spending quite a bit of time taking care of the kids. His firefighting job totally wrecks his sleep, and he has to work much harder for his secondary income in the current economic situation. IME, there have been times when pushing him to take on more childcare responsibilities has been good for our family, but I don't think that now is one of those times. To be honest, the children seem to be more calm and grounded since I've taken over more of their care. Dh was getting much more volatile with the kids and I think that they were really reacting to that. I didn't feel that it was a healthy situation for any of us. It all seems pretty murky right now.


----------



## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

INFP here too.

I have a non-negotiable 30 minutes every day entirely for myself and I cannot be interrupted unless there is some sort of true emergency. What I do varies (writing, reading, just laying down and thinking).

In some ways it seems like a lot of time to take out of the day, but the difference it makes in my attitude and my ability to take care of the kids and get things done MORE than makes up for it. Plus, I get to feel like a human being and everything.







:


----------



## artparent (Jun 8, 2005)

that's great you've marked that time out.
i guess sometimes i don't even get that until bedtime, sometimes not even then - however i'm afraid i need a lot more than that! i can't really get enough time to myself these days, i'm not sure why. and yet i love being with my children and wouldn't trade with folks who don't see theirs all day long...i think i'm just overwhelmed...or need to look forward to some kind of break/help.

*


----------



## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia* 
To be honest, the children seem to be more calm and grounded since I've taken over more of their care. Dh was getting much more volatile with the kids and I think that they were really reacting to that. I didn't feel that it was a healthy situation for any of us.

Ah, well I suppose that does make sense. I just wanna stick up for you, kwim?


----------



## vancouverlori (Sep 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia* 
It all seems pretty murky right now.









That sucks.

I like the idea of an older boy coming over to play too - there's no reason why he couldn't be a mother's helper. There are boys who have that magical touch with little kids, and that might make all the difference. I met one at Rona once. Gave him my card, for when he was ready to start babysitting, but I think his mom thought I was weird or something (who, me?) because they never called. Or babysitting was verboten for boys in their family. You'd need one who was mature enough to be able to occupy your DD too.

I'd send DD Emily over to help but she hates little kids. (My poor baby niece...)

It really will get easier... you're just not over the hump yet. That's all. There's a reason why they call the years 6-8 "Quiescence". I'm just starting to see the leading edge of it with Calvin.


----------



## intentionalmama (Aug 23, 2008)

Hi, one other thought. Self care can also include having time with our partners. If you can find someone (whom you trust with their parenting and your kids get along with) maybe someone in your co-op, or maybe later when your dd is a little older, perhaps you can do some ie) saturday night playdates for the kids and and a couple of hours out for you and dh, to have dinner together, go to the movies, go for a walk, or just talk. Then the following week, you would take your friends kids and perhaps your family plus the children would go bowling or to the park. This way you and dh have time together while your kids have a special night at some friends house.
Lesley


----------



## beaner&tiegs (Aug 3, 2003)

Hey guys!

Enjoying the read, and chiming in with a few self-care thoughts.....

First of all, childcare is imperative - it sucks when it's just a constant battle between the parents for a bit of time off, it works best to have extra help! Finding an older child to play, who will be more accomodating and responsible, would be an awesome solution - as would finding someone who could take the kids out for an outing each day. I would happily pay someone to take my kids to the playground for an hour or two, and I find my kids are very receptive to a playful adult who does something fun with them - even if they end it with a cookie at a local bakery at the end to make it a really fun outing, you know?! I would advertise at local health food stores, funky coffee shop, kids consignment store, library, on MOthering, etc.

Secondly, dh could help out much more with housework if things aren't working out so well with childcare, and you're shouldering most of the childcare. That, and perhaps he could do 4 of those 8 hours of reporting? Perhaps you need to let go of some of these areas in order to take care of your own needs? Sure, they might not get done as well as you wanted, but they'd be fine, and you'd have more hours to read fiction!

Thirdly, YOU come before housework and birthday parties and creative meals..........yes, life would be perfect if we could do it all, but we can't....and your needs need a lot more addressing. NO housework during quiet time, that is YOUR time. Housework can wait until you and DH can do it together. Pull out a crockpot and make double meals. Stock up on easy-to-make meals for a while. Stock your freezer on an ambitious day. Sometimes a lot of tv is a good thing, if you're all happier beings at the end of the day - forget the guilt, it's a useless emotion!!!!!!! Some days my kids watch three movies in a row. Other days they play happily on their own. TV doesn't seem to be ruining them so far, and I LOVE the free time it gives me!

And I'm not trying to be harsh, these are things I too am dealing with, especially the letting go of control. And accepting that scrambled eggs and steamed broccoli are a perfectly acceptable dinner!!!!!! When life is good and I feel like nourishing my family, I really enjoy cooking a nice meal. But I don't feel guilty about quick tacos or pasta or take-out either. I love to throw a good birthday party, but if it's not working out I let go of most of it, or let DH know he has to help out - then I accept what he offers too (usually the more difficult part for me!)

As for tips with the kids......some things we've found are:
- BOOKS ON CD. The constant chattering seems to entertain forever, while they play playmobile and listen to stories or classical song/story combos
- Letting them work on a rare project on their own (ie creating playdough on their own) - messy, but entertaining for them!!!!
- Setting up a new play scene for them before I go to bed so they wake up to something new to play with.

- would a tape recorder work for Wolfie? Or cheap video camera? He could talk to it and record his ideas for you or his dad?
- could he call his dad or relative to talk to for a while?
- would he have conversations between playmobile people?
- is there something that will hold Uma's attention? I know with Ryland he would stand at the sink and play with cutlery and bubbles for a long period. Or dig in dirt/sand. Sometimes the mess is worth the free time.
- on bad days, I would run a bath mid-day, then sit in the hall with my writing or fiction, I wonder if that would work?

GOOD LUCK TO YOU - in the end, the kids will do best with a happy mama, so the rest is much less important. A messy house used to stress me out, but then I realized that it had a lot to do with my frame of mind. I had a great friend when I was younger and her house was a DISASTER. And you know, I was always envious of her family - they were such interesting people and there was always something fascinating going on, you could always tell as the projects were all over the house! I loved it, it felt comfortable, CREATIVE, loving and lived in! So I just try to hold that image in my head when I start to get stressed out about the mess, and instead of cleaning pick up a tea and my letter writing!!!!!

Huge hugs to you, I hope this becomes an easier road for you soon! xo


----------



## jrabbit (May 10, 2008)

subbing ... I have only read a couple posts, and I swear that I could have written them ... need to read more another day ...


----------



## artparent (Jun 8, 2005)

erica, brilliant. if you have time i'd love to hear titles of audiobooks for younger ones, my littlest isn't so thrilled with them yet.

i have the name of a sitter, so i'm VERY excited about that. having more energy coming into our nuclear state is always positive.

*


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

It's taken me a while to get back to this, because I've been thinking on things.







for chiming in ******&tiegs -- I really appreciate your thoughts on this. When I see you IRL I get the impression that you *do* care for yourself, and I admire that given that you homeschool and have 3 children. Actually, that applies to all of the mamas in this thread who I know IRL







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *******&tiegs* 
First of all, childcare is imperative - it sucks when it's just a constant battle between the parents for a bit of time off, it works best to have extra help!

Still working on this. We have 6 hours a week, 3 of which is for our counselling session. It does make a difference, but I think that it would be better to have an hour a day rather than 2 3-hour sessions the way it is now. That might help me to weave self-care into my days more effectively.

A great situation that we have is that we are getting some child care from a neighbour's nanny so the kids aren't at home when they are being cared for. Without lying I kinda make it seems like I am not at home when I drop them off







so that they are not running home every second. My kids are not used to childcare so I am trying to build it up gradually and to avoid encountering huge resistance.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *******&tiegs* 
Finding an older child to play, who will be more accomodating and responsible, would be an awesome solution - as would finding someone who could take the kids out for an outing each day.

The older children around here don't seem that motivated







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *******&tiegs* 
I would advertise at local health food stores, funky coffee shop, kids consignment store, library, on MOthering, etc.

Good ideas







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *******&tiegs* 
Secondly, dh could help out much more with housework if things aren't working out so well with childcare, and you're shouldering most of the childcare. That, and perhaps he could do 4 of those 8 hours of reporting? Perhaps you need to let go of some of these areas in order to take care of your own needs? Sure, they might not get done as well as you wanted, but they'd be fine, and you'd have more hours to read fiction!

Dh is basically unwilling to do anything other than working on his business, doing his workouts, and looking after the kids (he wants to but can't always cope). He has some workaholism/depression issues going on IMO, and I simply have to let go of expectations right now. I set the homeschooling reporting up so that it would be really easy for him to contribute (all he has to do is make blog posts) and I reminded him a few times, but basically he doesn't do it -- it's not that I'm being perfectionistic about it







. I am really concerned about where he's at health-wise -- needing more self-care is a huge issue for him as well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *******&tiegs* 
Thirdly, YOU come before housework and birthday parties and creative meals..........yes, life would be perfect if we could do it all, but we can't....and your needs need a lot more addressing. NO housework during quiet time, that is YOUR time.

Well, some of those things relate to my needs -- a disastrous house not only causes me stress, but it seems that other people in the family get quite grumpy about it







: and then I have to deal with that. A birthday party is basically a frill, but OTOH, I haven't invited people over for about 6 months -- that's something that I used to love to do, part of my former identity. Creative meals -- I don't make fancy food lately, but I pay a price if my kids don't eat, and if I can't provide decent meals for dh on his special diet, he eats foods that are a problem for him. He is in stage 3 of kidney disease. It is really hitting home for me that this is not a joke







. I'm hearing what you're saying, but writing out all my excuses of why I'm not doing what you're suggesting. I often feel like I can't put the puzzle pieces together.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *******&tiegs* 
Housework can wait until you and DH can do it together.

Ain't gonna happen.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *******&tiegs* 
Pull out a crockpot and make double meals.

I don't have meals that my family would eat that I can make in a crockpot, but I do see that I could make some progress in food organization. I need to do more batch cooking so that I can put together 3 different meals without slaving in the kitchen (stuff for the kids, stuff for stephan, stuff for me). My kids are reallly picky. They won't even eat pizza any more when dh is not home and I want to take a break.

I love your activity ideas -- I do some but I will try some new things.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *******&tiegs* 
A messy house used to stress me out, but then I realized that it had a lot to do with my frame of mind. I had a great friend when I was younger and her house was a DISASTER. And you know, I was always envious of her family - they were such interesting people and there was always something fascinating going on, you could always tell as the projects were all over the house! I loved it, it felt comfortable, CREATIVE, loving and lived in!

I was the friend whose home was a disaster







. All my friends had clean, tidy homes. I hated growing up in a messy home. Interesting to visit, but not fun to live in. I'm not a neatnik, but when there's stuff everywhere I just can't focus on anything and feel a lot of anxiety. In a 1000 sf home you can't get away from the mess and it ends up creating a lot of conflict and problems. I've been in the process of decluttering and creating more storage -- I think it is helping/will help, but it takes a lot of time to make it happen. The other day dh came on and said "if I entered a home that looked like this on a fire call, I would assume that the person living here has a mental illness"







.


----------



## artparent (Jun 8, 2005)

((((ksenia))))

great about your neighbour's nanny, perfect







that is a bit like who i've found, she's an au pair for someone in the next neighbourhood, but their kids are away all day. i can have her two days a week if i can afford to. i feel much more peaceful knowing that is coming, with some luck in my own work.

*


----------



## vancouverlori (Sep 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia* 
The other day dh came on and said "if I entered a home that looked like this on a fire call, I would assume that the person living here has a mental illness"







.










Did he really? Of course if depression is going on for him (and I was thinking about that recently), then he's right, isn't he? (Especially if he's not doing much to help...) Maybe you could bring that thought back to him as a "wake-up call", unless that's how he was putting it when he said it. Ksenia, your house couldn't possibly be as messy as mine, even if it's small. And there is definitely no mental illness going on here. I've got an extra 500 sf than you and it's full of crap. We also have cat yak stains all over the carpets. I'm starting to gear up my plan for painting and re-flooring and I'm completely overwhelmed at the thought of getting everything out of here. Like moving with nowhere to go. Perhaps I need to invite you guys over for dinner! Without cleaning first!







Kindergarten has exploded in the living room, grade nine exploded in the dining room and all our closets have barfed all over our bedrooms. The only reason we don't have mountains of dirty laundry and nasty dishes is because DH takes care of those. That still leaves us with mountains of clean clothes and dishes that never seem to get put away. I'm trying to do a bit better, but over all, I'm resigned.


----------



## tiffani (May 17, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia* 
The other day dh came on and said "if I entered a home that looked like this on a fire call, I would assume that the person living here has a mental illness"







.

Ksenia, I would bet this is a huge issue between you guys, hey? He has expectations that are unrealistic in a home with two young children, a workaholic, depressed, kidney-diseased dad, and a stressed mama trying to hold everything together. He just does. It feels really good to just accept that there will be messes, and it's ok, it's nobody's fault, it just happens, and that it won't last forever. Moving here and having nearly no 'stuff' has been amazing for us in terms of mess, though there is still Lego and Sylvanian Family bits and pieces on the dining room table and in the living room (despite the kids having their own rooms, they usually play in the main living space)... we have a lovely, workable kitchen that is pretty easy to keep on top of, yet it still ends up disastrous every so often. At the same time, now that the kids are older, it's very easy to say "hey, let's clean this up together" and it will actually happen. They can help with laundry, dishes, recycling, putting away groceries -- it just gets easier as they get older, and don't sweat it if your kids don't pick up after themselves now, mine didn't either and they're pretty good at it now that it isn't a huge issue for me







. Mark used to get really irritated when the house was a huge mess (and I do hear you, we all feel better when it's tidy, but we all need to also just relax and accept the times when it isn't) but then he decided that he really didn't have the right to get irritated when he rarely had time to help out with the house -- it isn't fair to put the responsibility of housework on the mom and then get angry when it isn't done. housework is just one of those things that is so repetitive and boring and uninspiring and endless and BLAH! that there are days when you just aren't going to do it, and that's ok. Our house is much cleaner now that we've both accepted that I will do pretty much all the housework, but I will do it on my own schedule, thank you very much. If mark doesn't like it, he is welcome to clean it up himself! I understand that it isn't what he would like to do after working all day, but it's not what I would like to do either -- but knowing that nobody expects it of me makes me at least able to do it, whereas when it was a battle between us, I had a very hard time bringing myself to do it.

I think letting go of expectations is actually an incredibly healthy and liberating thing to do in a relationship, it just helps if it goes both ways, yk? People are far more willing to help out and contribute to the family if they don't feel it is expected of them, but it is so easy to get stuck in that place with a partner.


----------



## artparent (Jun 8, 2005)

ksenia, i was just thinking, is new west working well for you? that 8 hours or whatever you had said, it is pretty precious time, perhaps you might find other options for him which don't involve you reporting?
it looks like we may actually be moving away from it ourselves. today is my final report, from the looks of things...i have wanted to free-range, and now that it looks like i will be i must say i feel a mixed sense of responsibility and freedom, i'm so glad i have access to email lists!

anyway just a thought. good to cut out anything that isn't really working well for you folks, with all you've got on your plate. i'm also examining what i could do more easily if i weren't doing other things - for example i used to do my partner's business's tax + paperwork, but i'm not skilled in this area, and we've just shifted that over the last few months, catalysed by an audit







: which did go very well, but still! hopefully i can make the money doing things i like and am good at, to at least pay for accountant + bookkeeper, if necessary. i'm looking at whether i can afford help with cleaning if i do take on a contract that makes some cash - i just can't see adding me working to the whole balance without crashing everything. on the other hand, my little one is taking huge leaps in independence, today she said bye to me and went next door to jump in a sprinkler for a couple of hours, instead of begging me to come too and coming home if i left, and crying about me not being there even if she'd been having a blast (i can see + hear her in the next garden, so i know!) ..today she just said she had a great time! and kissing me goodbye when i go running, instead of hanging on to me crying. great freedom!

*


----------



## beaner&tiegs (Aug 3, 2003)

Hello Ksenia! I've been thinking of your response, and have had a couple of conversations with you in my head but having no access to internet it's been challenging to convey them to you! However, here I am, with a few spare moments while my children paint rocks (and their arms and hair!) so I thought I'd highlight a few of the highlights of my ensuing thoughts!!!!!!

- I remember you saying you'd gotten Wolfie tested in the past, I was wondering if any of the places you've gone have support systems that you can access, or students at the colleges or university who are studying early childhood that offer childcare or apprentice type stuff. That way, you'd have someone who is potentially more skilled in dealing with kids who need a little more support/who have the stamina to talk constantly with Wolfie and be kind and understanding with helping him negotiate social situations in playgrounds, etc

- One thought I had about your timer system is I suspect that would fail miserably with my kids - I wonder if the constant reminder that that you are not available for talking throughout the day makes them want to talk even more? I wonder what would happen if you took two weeks, got rid of the timer system and actually took it upon yourself to engage the kids even when they don't demand it. Give them extra attention, offer to read a book before they even ask, whatever - and I wonder if over time they would settle into moments of playing by themselves that would increase in times over weeks.

- I've gone through periods where it worked for me to do all housework in spurts throughout the day, and once the kids are in bed, whatever was done was what was going to get done that day and I used the evenings and one half day on the weekend for MY time. Other times, the kids seemed to need a lot more of me, so the evenings would be spent preparing for the next day and cleaning up, and I'd use nap/tv time to get a bit of me time. Now I probably do a combination of both kind of days throughout the week, but I definitely did not feel (before DH took time off...well, heck even after but I wonder if I'll EVER feel like I get enough?) like I got enough of me time. But I definitely have just accepted it more now, and have faith that the day will come when my kids are older and I'll miss these days. I'm told it by enough people, I just have faith!!!!!

- I thought more about how I dealt with these issues in the past, and here's a few of my memories.....for me, it's more about slipping away unnoticed when the kids are engaged and taking advantage of those moments. Taking advantage of a free moment rather than announcing a specific time. The trick was definitely not resenting it when I was interrupted!!!!! Sometimes it worked really well to spend quality time getting them engaged - ie creating a big fort and bringing toys in, then once they're playing let them be. Or making playdough with them and giving them fun tools to create with it. Also, I'd stay in the same room, and do what I could (this rarely worked on the computer - as soon as I zone out on the computer, EVERYONE needs me - I've found it works for me for the most part to leave computer work to either when the kids are watching tv OR in the evening. When Jamie's otherwise engaged himself







) I also have to say I agree with Tiffani, lowering MY expectations went a long way. I went through times when I found my quiet moments washing my hands with lavender soap and breathing in the smell. Or finding that I love to cook and enjoying creating food. It seemed once I accepted that life was crazy with young kids and there just wasn't a lot of time for extra stuff, and truly became satisfied with that, then I found everyone would settle down a bit and I would find more bits of time to myself - it seems the more I push or resist, everyone gets strung out and needs more, y'know?! Not the most feminist stand-point, perhaps, and not what you're looking for, but it was the more peaceful approach and I trust that I will get more time in the years to come. (I also have to reiterate that this worked for me because DH also worked, and came home and found things to do WITH the kids, he didn't participate in sports or meet co-workers at the bar, he even gave up many evening work socials/meetings when life was chaotic too.....so I didn't resent it)

- I wonder what would happen if you focused attention on 'teaching' Wolfie skills for calming his body and his mind? It probably would help him in the long run. Some ideas might be getting yoga cards and everyone choosing a card, doing the pose together and talking about the different parts of the body, the importance of breathing in long and deep and getting oxygen to your toes, etc. We've gotten kids meditation CD's at Banyen that the kids LOVE, and takes them on exercises on slowing down their minds, and visualizing positive or restful images. Perhaps daily footbaths would bring calm, or more warm oil massages on the coffee table with dim light and calming music. We'll often sit down and have a nice tea with candlelight. Or finding a book that everyone will enjoy reading - I wonder if your family would enjoy Shirley Woods, have you discovered his books? He's a naturalist from Ontario and he writes great books about animals - the library has them, and we all LOVED them!

- As for your comments about your DH, I know you're working on your relationship with him, and this thread is more about you, but I just have to make a couple of comments because I do believe it has to do with self care. First of all, I can see how it might be more work for you to ask more of DH re: childcare because everyone is strung out. I disagree with his inability to help out with housework, but that's up to you guys to negotiate. I can tell you DH would regret the day he said something to me about the state of OUR house, but that's another topic (however, I would argue, part of self-care. I'm sure that comment made you feel horrible, as if we ALL wouldn't love a beautiful well-maintained house and feel a little like a failure that we can't do it all!) However, I will maintain that it is your DH who needs to take his health problems seriously, NOT you. He won't get better by YOU stressing about his health and trying to fix it. There is no way you should be cooking three meals, especially when you have too much on your plate. So although your kids may be fussy eaters, they must have three meals that they'll eat, even if they eat cheese and crackers and carrot sticks for three weeks straight. It seems to me, this is a classic example of putting your air mask on first BEFORE you help others - you'll do no good if you exhaust yourself into depression, resentment and potentially divorce. I would have a conversation about how you're struggling and need to figure out how to find more time for yourself, and you're going to do what you need for the kids but that he needs to step up to at least take care of his own meals and health.

I mean this all very kindly, and I hope it doesn't come off harshly - I wish we could have this conversation over tea and not in a many-interrupted rant from me as I try to distract my kids and remember all my scattered thoughts. I hope things are looking up for you these days, and the sunshine is making life easier for everyone!!!! xoxo


----------



## artparent (Jun 8, 2005)

how is it going? as i said on the vancouver thread, my great childcare evaporated before we even started, as her mother fell ill out of the country, so she is leaving. i am bereft







i'm really not sure what to do next, as we leave in a few weeks.

*


----------

