# got yelled at by a stranger



## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

I have to say I've been lucky. My dd is 16 mos and today was the first time a stranger told me how to parent. I live on the third floor of a walk up in a quiet residential neighborhood. The biggest challenge about living in an apartment with a baby is going grocery shopping. Usually I go shopping when dh is home so he can help me carry them up the three flights of stairs, but now that my dd is a good walker I can carry the groceries while she climbs the stairs. It takes a long time but it works. The only problem is shepherding dd through the front door of our apartment building while I carry the groceries. It doesn't seem safe to let her walk to the front door unless I have both hands free, SO what I do is park right out front, lock the car and run the groceries into the main door to the apartment building and then run out and get dd. Mind you that this takes roughly 10 seconds. There isn't a lot of space(25 feet or less) between the street and the building. So today I do this and as I turn around to get my dd this man stops and sees her alone in the car. I'm right behind him and say "don't worry I'm her mom" as I open the car and pick her up. Then he starts yelling at me for leaving her in the car. I said that I didn't leave her, I was running my groceries into my apartment foyer. Then he yells that I should take her in first (oh yeah cause it's sooo safe to leave a toddler alone at the bottom of three flights of stairs). He walks off cursing me. What I wish I had said was "if you're so concerned why don't you carry my groceries in!" UGH. The funny thing is that I am a really paranoid mom. I mean I won't even put her in a crib at night because I wont let her out of my sight LOL. Any other good mind your own business stories?


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

So, you just went to the first floor of the apartment? Not up three flights with the groceries, then back out to get her?

I don't see the harm in that either.

I can't think of a safer solution either. Well, I guess I can, just not a super reasonable solution.

I lived in St Louis, and we had those three floor walk ups too. So, that is what I am picturing when you say that you dropped them in the main foyer. I'm guessing that the man thought you just left her out there while you ran upstairs. I've seen worse, so I wouldn't be surprised. The other day, a man parked out in front of Super wal mart... (just in front, not in a space) and ran inside to get money out of the bank, while his preschool aged son climbed from front to back locking and unlocking all the doors wearing nothing but a blue cape. (the cape part was funny)


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

Yep just dropping them off inside the front door to the building. I would never run upstairs with her in the car. Not in a million years!


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## laila2 (Jul 21, 2007)

it is OK to leave them in the car if you are in eye sight. Sounds like an old guy having a really bad day. I would have been [email protected]#ed too. You were doing fine. As long as dd was buckled in. I have left my dd in car and she has unbuckled herself. All that I thought about was what if she released brake or put it into gear?

Back in the 70's, my dad left us in the station wagon forgetting to put the e-brake on. We went rolling out of the parking lot of longs, luckily onto a quiet side street.


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

No joke......

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23594474/

People are nuts!


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## OdinsMommy0409 (May 1, 2010)

Ah, That's great that you've made it thus far without unsolicited and oft ridiculous advice from a stranger. I have an elderly gentlemen (late 70s-early 80s) who when DS was 7 months, standing, and enjoying walking while I held his hand tell me that I was an awful mother for making my baby bow-legged. I laughed, and then told him that the American Academy of Pediatrics and my pediatrician would not only disagree with him but actually encourage such types of activities.

I ran into him again last month when DS was 11 months. DS was walking around, and I could see the man shaking his head in disdain that he was so young a walking. He stopped me yet again and asked how old my son was. Anticipating why he was asking in order to berate me, I replied, "I don't see how that's relevant." Of course, he was shocked with my reply, and the men to whom he had been sharing his disgust of my parenting burst out in laughter. I then continued to ignore him, and he sat in utter shock with his mouth agape at my refusal to answer him. LOL.


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

really, I can see his point of view. Imagine seeing an unattended baby in a car (buckled in a car seat mind you). I feel like time would stand still. He couldn't see me because I was right behind him. But still I don't think he should have yelled at me!


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## ICU2 (May 4, 2010)

I don't know where you live, but I have seen a couple of news stories already this year about kids dying in cars because the parents forgot about them. The temps got so high in the car that they died of hyperthermia.

There are stories like this every year and it could be that the man has read a story recently or in the past or knows someone this has happened to. I totally get your problem, so I'm not saying there was anything wrong with what you did. He just probably had a knee-jerk reaction and didn't really think of the logistics of the situation before he unleashed on you.


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ICU2* 
I don't know where you live, but I have seen a couple of news stories already this year about kids dying in cars because the parents forgot about them. The temps got so high in the car that they died of hyperthermia.

There are stories like this every year and it could be that the man has read a story recently or in the past or knows someone this has happened to. I totally get your problem, so I'm not saying there was anything wrong with what you did. He just probably had a knee-jerk reaction and didn't really think of the logistics of the situation before he unleashed on you.

Yeah... he was wrong to yell, but I completely understand why it seemed off to him.

Those stories (kids forgotten in cars) are some of the worst things I've ever read, bar none.


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ICU2* 
I don't know where you live, but I have seen a couple of news stories already this year about kids dying in cars because the parents forgot about them. The temps got so high in the car that they died of hyperthermia.

There are stories like this every year and it could be that the man has read a story recently or in the past or knows someone this has happened to. I totally get your problem, so I'm not saying there was anything wrong with what you did. He just probably had a knee-jerk reaction and didn't really think of the logistics of the situation before he unleashed on you.

Yeah I totally think it was a knee jerk reaction. There are a lot of stories about kids dying of hyperthermia in cars. BUT, I hear a lot of stories about toddlers getting hit by cars while their mothers load or unload groceries....I think it is way more dangerous to let my dd walk to the apartment while my hands are full and I can't grab her. We live right on an alleyway. I've almost been hit like a hundred times walking on my own sidewalk.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I don't live in an apt or anything, but often times I put DD in the car, have her buckled in -- and realize I forgot my phone inside or my wallet. I leave her in the car, lock the doors, run in, run out, and she's fine. You're not alone. I think that the system you have is the safest for your LO so don't worry about that old guy. He must have been having a bad day and took it out on you.


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## ICU2 (May 4, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scottishmommy* 
Yeah I totally think it was a knee jerk reaction. There are a lot of stories about kids dying of hyperthermia in cars. BUT, I hear a lot of stories about toddlers getting hit by cars while their mothers load or unload groceries....I think it is way more dangerous to let my dd walk to the apartment while my hands are full and I can't grab her. We live right on an alleyway. I've almost been hit like a hundred times walking on my own sidewalk.

Oh yeah, I really understand it. I have kids of my own and have taken care of kids since I was 14 and my sister had her first. I just think he saw Kid - Car - No parent and reacted without thinking through the whys of the situation. If I left my youngest in a lobby alone she'd be half-way to California by the time I got back. She's a speedy one!


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## berry987 (Apr 23, 2008)

I agree that leaving kids in car stories are terrifying and awful. But the fact that a mom can't step away from a car for 1 minute to drop the groceries in the front door, etc. is insane. People have to put things in perspective - those kids who die in cars are left for longer periods of time, completely unattended, often because a parent forgot they were in the car. I've never heard of a child dying because a parent ran in the front of their apartment building for a few seconds. Kids choke on hot dogs, too...does that mean parents feeding their two year old a hot dog at a picnic should be arrested for child endangerment?

I had a UPS driver yell at me for leaving my two sleeping kids in the car to pick up a package from their delivery center. The doors were glass and the pick-up counter was right in front of the glass doors and my car was parked in front of the doors and I was watching the car the whole time. My car was locked, the weather was a cool 50 degrees and I was in there for no more than 3 minutes. I knew I was breaking the rules, but I knew my kids were not in danger so I did it anyway. He threatened to call the police.

There is no common sense in these laws.


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## CalaRei (Mar 10, 2008)

Holy crap, I don't know how I'd handle getting yelled at for that! I can only physically carry one of my babies out to the car at one time!! Same goes for getting them back in the house. And *gasp* when we go for walks, it's a huge affair - bring stroller out front, load one baby. Go in for second baby, load him. Go back in for dog, and *THEN* walk.

Granted, no three flights of stairs here in our suburban neighborhood, but geez.


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

What really gets to me is how people judge but don't help. This guy was young, maybe 20 or so. He could have said "do you need help with your groceries?" instead he curses me and tells me I should have taken dd inside first. How is that safer?


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## Raine822 (Dec 11, 2008)

After DD1 was born me and DH started walking a few miles in the afternoon. It was very hot-90+ degrees. We would put DD in a stroller and take her. EVERY DAY at least 2-3 people would yell at us for not having her in hat/blanket/long pants ect. My mother would go as far as putting her in footed sleepers and covering her with a heavy afghan. It drove me crazy trying to explain that at 9 pounds she does not need to be dressed like an eskimo.


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

The whole "that baby looks cold" thing.


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## Ambystoma (Mar 26, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Raine822* 
After DD1 was born me and DH started walking a few miles in the afternoon. It was very hot-90+ degrees. We would put DD in a stroller and take her. EVERY DAY at least 2-3 people would yell at us for not having her in hat/blanket/long pants ect. My mother would go as far as putting her in footed sleepers and covering her with a heavy afghan. It drove me crazy trying to explain that at 9 pounds she does not need to be dressed like an eskimo.

Ugh-I get that too. My 2mo DS is very hot natured and it's in the upper 80s here now. He goes out in just a onesie and will sweat. So, my neighbors gove me the stinky-eye and say how cold he must be with no socks/etc on. Umm...he's sweating and so am I.

Anyway, OP-sorry you were yelled at over that. Some people don't think before reacting. I get the "unattended child" fear, but even if I thought you had gone upstairs, I wouldn't have yelled.


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## sleepingbeauty (Sep 1, 2007)

It is stories like these and the one in the link that make me really nervous about having my own kids someday. i swear, one of these days we're going to have to glue our children to us or risk arrest!


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## maddymama (Jan 5, 2008)

Hugs, mama! We've all been there to some degree. I solved my problem by wearing my toddler on my back in a mei tai or a soft structured carrier while I carried my groceries in. Sometimes it took a second trip, but I knew that DD was safe and I wasn't leaving her alone for any amount of time so no one (read nosy busybody neighbor) could complain about my parenting (other than "That looks dangerous to toss her on your back like that...."
~maddymama


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I'll put my car in park right in front of the door with my hazard blinkers on, empty the trunk onto the porch of the apartment building, and then finish parking, but we have assigned spaces. In your situation, I wouldn't bother lock my car or close the doors in this weather. I'd leave them open to keep talking to dd.


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## ebethmom (Jan 29, 2002)

Too bad you didn't ask him to help with your groceries! I would love to hear his response to that.


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## ellairiesmom (Mar 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maddymama* 
Hugs, mama! I solved my problem by wearing my toddler on my back in a mei tai or a soft structured carrier while I carried my groceries in... "That looks dangerous to toss her on your back like that...."
~maddymama

nak
incidentally-i've been getting a lot of cr#p from strangers while wearing dd2 lately...if she is in the MT, people ask if she can breathe & say it doesn't look safe. if i have her in the ringsling, i get the whole "don't you know those things were recalled & kill babies". i have been taking the time to explain why they are safe & why bag style carriers are not but any day now i'm gonna lose my patience & tell them to mtob.

can't win for tryin'!

and yeah-no one should yell at us!


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## maddymama (Jan 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ellairiesmom* 
nak
incidentally-i've been getting a lot of cr#p from strangers while wearing dd2 lately...if she is in the MT, people ask if she can breathe & say it doesn't look safe. if i have her in the ringsling, i get the whole "don't you know those things were recalled & kill babies". i have been taking the time to explain why they are safe & why bag style carriers are not but any day now i'm gonna lose my patience & tell them to mtob.

can't win for tryin'!

and yeah-no one should yell at us!

Stephanie,
I've gotten some flack for that lately, too. I usually smile and say, "DD is perfectly safe in here/back there, but thank you for asking." Then walk on.
I just found out from a friend that I'm the "East coast hippie girl" in the neighborhood- ha ha ha ha ha...... bc of my carriers, CDing, and BFing. I took it as a compliment.

And back to the original issue... yes, we shouldn't be yelled at for any reason. Hopefully parking with hazards on, or using a carrier, or something will prevent that from happening to her (or any of us) in the future....
~maddymama


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## fiorio (Aug 30, 2006)

OP, I used to do the same thing with my DS. I would park in front of our building and bring my grocery bags to our door on the second floor, then I would rush back to the car and park it. I figured a toddler is much safer left buckled into his carseat for a minute than roaming freely in the apartment.


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## bcblondie (Jun 9, 2009)

Oh dear. How dumb. As if you had a safe alternative...
And I don't see why people feel the need to comment. Last fall I was meeting someone someone at the mall, who was buying something I sold online. The guy took a little longer than I thought (like 5 mins) and it was about 10 celcius out, and just a little windy. And I hadn't realized til I got there that DS didn't have socks on.







But he was dressed warm and was in his moby wrap and I just held his feet.
Some lady drove past, stopped, backed up and said "you've GOT to start taking care of that little boy!!" as if I wasn't... And continued to bash me about the lack of socks. She offered me a ride home, as if getting in the car with a stranger with no carseat was safer than standing outside with slightly cold feet... And also bailing on the guy I was meeting....


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## nertsmommy (Nov 11, 2009)

I don't live in an apartment, but there are 34 steps to go up from the road to my house. I have a 3 & 2 year old. I leave them strapped in the van while DH & I carry bags up the steps. Then we either carry or hold the hand of the kids as we walk them up. The railing is too high for them to hold and the steps too steep for me to feel comfortable letting them go up or down alone. I am due with #3 in 4 days and when it is just me I have to take one child at a time. I keep waiting for my nosy neighbor to call the cops on us. He calls for everything else (leaves blowing into his yard on a windy day).
I can't wait to hear what comments I'll get when I'm out with the new baby in a wrap after the recall on the bag carriers. People hear recall on child items, but then they never bother to see exactly what is recalled and just thing all carriers are bad.
Also I get the "you aren't dressing the kids warm enough." from MIL who thinks kids need to be in coats, hats, socks, and shoes at all times. As well as I don't feed them enough because I don't leave food out on the counter for them to eat all day long.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Ech. He probably meant well and was thinking of those "baby dies in car" stories, but don't worry about it! You know you didn't do anything wrong.

And you're lucky - I got my first bad-parent scolding when DD was about two months old. It was a hot day, she was in the Ergo with the newborn insert, and I took her out to the grocery store without any socks on. The lovely Indian woman behind the counter gave me an earful! (As it happens, I'm currently writing an article about postpartum practices worldwide and have learned traditional Indian people have a Thing about babies being cold, related to traditional medicine. So that explains that. But still... she _wasn't_ cold. I touched her feet and they were warm. She clearly thought I was young and flighty and up to no good. Fun!)


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

DS was 6 months old and in his stroller at the farmers market. We are in the shade, in the shade, in the shade, then hit the end of the aisle, the shade ends, so I make a u-turn to go back into the shade. The sun hit the face for two lousy seconds while making that u-turn and some little old lady (charging $4 for one fist sized non organic tomato







) screamed at me that he would go blind and I should cover his eyes up. I mean seriously.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nertsmommy* 
I don't live in an apartment, but there are 34 steps to go up from the road to my house. I have a 3 & 2 year old. I leave them strapped in the van while DH & I carry bags up the steps. Then we either carry or hold the hand of the kids as we walk them up. The railing is too high for them to hold and the steps too steep for me to feel comfortable letting them go up or down alone. I am due with #3 in 4 days and when it is just me I have to take one child at a time. I keep waiting for my nosy neighbor to call the cops on us. He calls for everything else (leaves blowing into his yard on a windy day).

Neither DH or I would be comfortable with that. I would take the kids up, then have one parent stay with the kids while the other unloads. I would also have that house up for sale, doesnt sound kid friendly (no offense).


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## corysmilk (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maddymama* 
Hugs, mama! We've all been there to some degree. I solved my problem by wearing my toddler on my back in a mei tai or a soft structured carrier while I carried my groceries in. Sometimes it took a second trip, but I knew that DD was safe and I wasn't leaving her alone for any amount of time so no one (read nosy busybody neighbor) could complain about my parenting (other than "That looks dangerous to toss her on your back like that...."
~maddymama

yup!!
i had to water the garden in the summer with ds in a sling. no hose just buckets of water. ( we lived on a secluded island)I just couldn't leave him in the house and the garden was too big and akward for me to push the stroller around in.


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## marlee (Aug 29, 2005)

Okay seriously I would like someone to tell me how they get out of the house without either leaving the children in the car alone or the house alone or outside while they get ready to go somewhere.

If I run the items I need to the car first my dd tries to come out or screams at the door because he thinks I'm leaving or he runs risk of his sister getting mad at him for something.

I usually buckle the children. And then run around grabbing what I need to put in the car. Coats, water bottles, library books, grocery bags, recycling, etc.

No biggie. The car is in a safe place. What do if you don't leave them.


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## Catubodua (Apr 21, 2008)

i inadvertantly upset a momma the other day while picking up my dog at daycare.

i had my little one in his carseat/stroller and we walked outside with me holding the leash in one hand and driving the stroller in the other. i do this all the time, have no problem with it usually.

but, on this day, my poor dog needed to potty badly and she ran ahead (she's on a retractable) and her leash got hooked on to a car next to the door. you know, where the tape on the retractable got in between the trunk and the backlights. not a big deal, just takes you a moment to unhook everything.

apparently, i was next to the car for too long because i heard the locks engage and another chirp. i assumed it was an alarm setting. it was at that point i actually looked at/in the car and realized there was a sleeping toddler in a carseat in the back.

when the mom came out with her dog a moment later she seemed flustered and just got the dog in the car and drove off quickly. i wondered if she thought i was going to yell at her about the toddler or if she thought i was some weirdo staring at her son.


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## bcblondie (Jun 9, 2009)

Oh cat I would feel so awkward after that... no way to explain yourself or anything. Eep.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

You know, it is interesting that even here, it is taken for granted that a child in a car is not safe somehow - we only do it because we have no other option. I mean, I was given the evil eye when I put my baby in the car and walked twenty feet to return my cart. Honestly, what do people think will happen?

I have a toddler and a baby. I can't easily carry both so I put the toddler in the car and go back for the baby. Why is this something I should be worried about?

Is it bad that I let my two older kids play in the basement while i do dishes in the kitchen? That I let the baby sleep in another room while i do something else?

I wonder what these kids that are never let out from under the eyes of their parents will be like. It's no wonder people wonder how mom's with more kids manage.


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## EyesOfTheWorld (Apr 20, 2004)

I'm so sorry you got yelled at mama! I understand why he was concerned, but once he saw you come get her he should have backed off. Had it been me I may have just hung out near the car for a minute to make sure someone was coming right back.

When we lived in a apartment I strapped DD1 on my back while I did the groceries. Could you do this?


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## Amatullah0 (Apr 7, 2009)

We live on the second floor of an apartment. Its relatively safe here, our car is parked feet from the front door. We have a laundry building across the small drive that goes through the parking lot.

When I do groceries by myself, ds will go in the wrap or mai tai, and I carry all the groceries in with two hands. Sometimes, I will take him off upstairs and get any remaining groceries. If DH is with me, I hold ds and he brings in the groceries, and I carry what I can, if needed.

When I return the cart, I will either keep ds with me, or leave him in the car, doesn't matter to me.

To me, leaving him in the car, buckled up, windows down if its warm-ish out is perfectly safe. I lock the car doors and never leave the keys in the ignition, because I would worry about someone stealing the car. He's not going to die of heat exhaustion or of cold, because if it was too hot, I would stick him on my back, and if its just a little warm, I would open the windows a little bit, and if its too cold, I wouldn't leave him in the car. plus, i'm not leaving him for too long. he isn't going to mess with the gears because he's buckled in, doesn't know how to unbuckle himself yet, and even if he did, he wouldn't be able to get to anywhere where he would be able to mess with anything, and even if he did, I'm sure I would notice it before anything could happen(at worst the car rolls back down the parking lot) OR, another car could hit the car, but that impact would be a lot smaller than the danger of driving the car on the actual road.

When I do laundry, If I'm planning on doing laundry and going somewhere in the car, I will put ds in the car, go back upstairs, grab the laundry baskets, and put them in the car, drive to the laundry building, and park somewhere where I will be able to see the car through a window. then I go in, leave ds in the car, and put the laundry in the washer. If I have to put the laundry into the dryer, I will either leave ds in the car or bring him in and let him play on the floor, and when I go back to collect the laundry, I often fold it there, and keep ds on my back, or let him play on the yucky laundry room floor(or in a basket







.

and if the guy was only 20something, what are the odds of him actually knowing what its like to have kids that make a break for it? Its amazing how many childless people find the need to comment on parenting skills.







, when I was pregnant, I was berated by a 17 year old for drinking half a can of pepsi(for the first time in a month), because she was sure it was going to do drastic harm to my baby


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## 2boyzmama (Jun 4, 2007)

You just can't win.

You leave her in the car while you put the groceries inside the building, you get yelled at.

You put her in a sling/carrier, you get yelled at.

You let her walk next to you, you get yelled at.

I had a system where I would leave my oldest in the car while I ran the groceries to the elevator (I could see the car the whole time, the elevator was in the parking garage of the bldg). I would use a gallon of milk or something similar to hold the elevator door open while I made several trips from car to elevator, then I'd get the baby out and ride the elevator up to our floor. I got yelled at for hoarding the elevator by propping the door open like that! Really?

Sometime you have to choose between a rock and a hard place, you choose the best option you can.


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## jessemoon (May 31, 2004)

I posted about this years ago,when it happened. When ds (now 6) was a baby, I parked at our local, small-town grocery store and got out of the car to get him out as well. As I was walking from the driver's side, around the back of the car to the rear passenger side (where my son's seat was), a woman shrieked at me, "Don't you leave that baby in the car!". I was shocked and stammered, "I wasn't...I was getting him." She furrowed her brow and grumped, "Yeah, right." and kept on going into the store. It was not a hot day (early March) and I was never more than inches from the car.

I'm not sure what she wanted me to do...crawl over the console and unbuckle him from the interior of the car....vault over the hood Dukes of Hazard style? I spent hours (as a nervous new mom) wondering if I had somehow missed that I was doing something dangerous.

I, too, object to the idea that merely being in a parked car is somehow dangerous to a child. Yes, heat kills. Yes, unsecured children can mess with the e-brake. Yes, a masked carjacker could spring out of the bushes and steal the car. But,really, if you are within eye and earshot of the car, the kid is buckled in a carseat, the weather is cool and the doors are locked...it is not more inherently dangerous to the child if the parent is standing _outside_ the car for a few moments than if the parent is _inside_ the car.

Like so many parenting things, it is a judgment call...a calculated risk. You know your kid, your street and your situation. Is it more dangerous to have the toddler by the hand next to the road while you drop off the DVD or use the ATM or is it more dangerous to leave the toddler in his/her car seat while you do the same? Everyone's situation is different.

It's not that some people don't do stupid things and I think we do need to watch out for each other's kids. If you are worried about a kid in a car, and Mom comes back from putting away the cart, smile and walk away. If you are worried about a kid in a car and Mom doesn't turn up for a few minutes, hang around and then, if need be, call the cops to rescue the kid. Screaming at the cart mom doesn't keep kids safer, it just contributes to ugliness.

I'm sorry you felt attacked, OP. I remember the feeling.


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## EyesOfTheWorld (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jessemoon* 
I'm not sure what she wanted me to do...crawl over the console and unbuckle him from the interior of the car....vault over the hood Dukes of Hazard style?

That was a great mental image!


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amatullah0* 
We live on the second floor of an apartment. Its relatively safe here, our car is parked feet from the front door. We have a laundry building across the small drive that goes through the parking lot.

When I do groceries by myself, ds will go in the wrap or mai tai, and I carry all the groceries in with two hands. Sometimes, I will take him off upstairs and get any remaining groceries. If DH is with me, I hold ds and he brings in the groceries, and I carry what I can, if needed.

When I return the cart, I will either keep ds with me, or leave him in the car, doesn't matter to me.

To me, leaving him in the car, buckled up, windows down if its warm-ish out is perfectly safe. I lock the car doors and never leave the keys in the ignition, because I would worry about someone stealing the car. He's not going to die of heat exhaustion or of cold, because if it was too hot, I would stick him on my back, and if its just a little warm, I would open the windows a little bit, and if its too cold, I wouldn't leave him in the car. plus, i'm not leaving him for too long. he isn't going to mess with the gears because he's buckled in, doesn't know how to unbuckle himself yet, and even if he did, he wouldn't be able to get to anywhere where he would be able to mess with anything, and even if he did, I'm sure I would notice it before anything could happen(at worst the car rolls back down the parking lot) OR, another car could hit the car, but that impact would be a lot smaller than the danger of driving the car on the actual road.

*When I do laundry, If I'm planning on doing laundry and going somewhere in the car, I will put ds in the car, go back upstairs, grab the laundry baskets, and put them in the car, drive to the laundry building, and park somewhere where I will be able to see the car through a window. then I go in, leave ds in the car, and put the laundry in the washer*. If I have to put the laundry into the dryer, I will either leave ds in the car or bring him in and let him play on the floor, and when I go back to collect the laundry, I often fold it there, and keep ds on my back, or let him play on the yucky laundry room floor(or in a basket







.

and if the guy was only 20something, what are the odds of him actually knowing what its like to have kids that make a break for it? Its amazing how many childless people find the need to comment on parenting skills.







, when I was pregnant, I was berated by a 17 year old for drinking half a can of pepsi(for the first time in a month), because she was sure it was going to do drastic harm to my baby









I would really not feel comfortable with that. I have 3 children so I do understand how hard it is to do stuff with kids, but leaving a toddler in a car alone while going into a laundromat? I just don't think that's safe.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

I don't think that he should have yelled at you but I also don't think leaving a toddler in a car on the street is a good idea. I always ask people, in regards to leaving their child in the car while running into [insert place here], would you leave your purse, your cell phone or a stack of hundred dollar bills sitting on the back seat in plain view? I mean, it's just for a few minutes. You're just running into the house, the store, the laundromat, whatever. Most people would say absolutely NO. They wouldn't even consider leaving a large amount of money or their purse or a cell phone in plain view in their vehicle. Even for a minute. What if someone saw it? Someone could break in and steal it. Isn't your child infinitely more valuable to you than your cell phone or a stack of hundred dollar bills? If you wouldn't feel comfortable leaving those items in plain sight alone in a car then why would you feel comfortable leaving your child in that position?


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## maddymama (Jan 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marlee* 
Okay seriously I would like someone to tell me how they get out of the house without either leaving the children in the car alone or the house alone or outside while they get ready to go somewhere.

If I run the items I need to the car first my dd tries to come out or screams at the door because he thinks I'm leaving or he runs risk of his sister getting mad at him for something.

I usually buckle the children. And then run around grabbing what I need to put in the car. Coats, water bottles, library books, grocery bags, recycling, etc.

No biggie. The car is in a safe place. What do if you don't leave them.

Honestly.... I usually let the kids run around the house while I pack up a bag or two to carry out to the car (library books, water, diaperbag, etc) and leave it by the door. Then I get DD1 ready, then DD2 ready and on my back, then I carry the bags while DD2 is on my back and walk with DD1 out to the car. If I need to do more than one trip then we might all three of us walk back and forth, or I'll run it out to the car when DH is home, or let DH put it in my car for me earlier in the am. I find a SSC is essential for quick up and downs like this. I also toss DD2 on my back to unload groceries.... DD 1 usually helps to carry a bag or two in with me.
This plan was essential when we lived on a busy street and had to pack a bit away from the door, and I was scared that DD would run out into the street. Now we live in a safer place, but I'm still in the habit of doing this.
~maddymama


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## bcblondie (Jun 9, 2009)

I honestly think a stack of 100 dollar bills is a million times more likely to get stollen than your child getting kidnapped. Kidnapping is more rare than getting struck by lightning. And I'm sure most preditors would go for more easy prey than a locked car in broad daylight.

ETA. It's much more likely that your CAR would get stollen while your child just so happens to be inside. And a car theif would likely chose a empty car over an occupied one.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bcblondie* 
I honestly think a stack of 100 dollar bills is a million times more likely to get stollen than your child getting kidnapped. Kidnapping is more rare than getting struck by lightning. And I'm sure most preditors would go for more easy prey than a locked car in broad daylight.

ETA. It's much more likely that you CAR would get stollen while your child just so happens to be inside. And a car theif would likely chose a empty car over an occupied one.

Well, I guess that's a risk you choose to take. I don't.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Well, I guess that's a risk you choose to take. I don't.

On the other hand, you drive, which is much more likely to result in your child being killed than leaving him in a locked car for a few minutes.


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
I don't think that he should have yelled at you but I also don't think leaving a toddler in a car on the street is a good idea. I always ask people, in regards to leaving their child in the car while running into [insert place here], would you leave your purse, your cell phone or a stack of hundred dollar bills sitting on the back seat in plain view? I mean, it's just for a few minutes. You're just running into the house, the store, the laundromat, whatever. Most people would say absolutely NO. They wouldn't even consider leaving a large amount of money or their purse or a cell phone in plain view in their vehicle. Even for a minute. What if someone saw it? Someone could break in and steal it. Isn't your child infinitely more valuable to you than your cell phone or a stack of hundred dollar bills? If you wouldn't feel comfortable leaving those items in plain sight alone in a car then why would you feel comfortable leaving your child in that position?

The space between the street and my apartment building is less than 20 feet. I don't live in an area with large front lawns. It's a side walk and a tiny bit of grass, so it takes literally 15 seconds AT THE MOST to run groceries to the front door. I know it seems dangerous to leave a toddler for a few seconds in a car, but it's probably statistically more likely that a toddler will get injured _outside_ of a car. I don't worry a lot about my child getting kidnapped, but I worry a lot about my child getting hit by a car while I struggle with groceries, especially since I live on an alleyway (read cars driving in between buildings, unable to see pedestrians at all). I always take her with me when I put a cart back in the grocery store parking lot, but seriously I bet it's more dangerous to carry her with me than leave her in the car.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bluegoat* 
On the other hand, you drive, which is much more likely to result in your child being killed than leaving him in a locked car for a few minutes.

I would assume that someone who is leaving a child in a parked car is driving as well, wouldn't you think? I doubt they own a car just to strap their child in periodically. Life is full of risks, but that doesn't mean you should introduce extra risk because of it.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scottishmommy* 
The space between the street and my apartment building is less than 20 feet. I don't live in an area with large front lawns. It's a side walk and a tiny bit of grass, so it takes literally 15 seconds AT THE MOST to run groceries to the front door. I know it seems dangerous to leave a toddler for a few seconds in a car, but it's probably statistically more likely that a toddler will get injured _outside_ of a car. I don't worry a lot about my child getting kidnapped, but I worry a lot about my child getting hit by a car while I struggle with groceries, especially since I live on an alleyway (read cars driving in between buildings, unable to see pedestrians at all). I always take her with me when I put a cart back in the grocery store parking lot, but seriously I bet it's more dangerous to carry her with me than leave her in the car.

Do you have a harness? I had a cute little backpack harness for the kids at that age. It was a puppy (but they make bears, horses, etc). You could park the car in your parking space, put the harness on her, and then carry your groceries while she walks safely beside you. You could even hand her one grocery item to carry (whatever she is strong enough to handle) and make a big deal about her being such a great helper and that she should stay close to you to help you keep the groceries safe.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I leave the kids in the car while I run back inside on regular basis. I also frequently leave my purse on the front seat.


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## half-pint (Oct 27, 2007)

I lived the in same situation as the OP. A walk-up apartment, only alley parking, busy downtown neighborhood. I had no choice but to leave DS in car while I unloaded groceries - he did not walk until 2.5 and I wasn't going to sit him on the ground while I brought in the bags. He was way safer in the locked car than unattended in the house.

It reminded me of a story of the woman who was ticketed (maybe arrested?) for leaving sleeping baby in the car while she pulled over at the entrance of wal-mart and she and her other son got out to put some money in the salvation army bucket. It was cold and snowy/icy. People said that the car could have been hit by another car??? Uh was far more likely to occur on the road, driving, not in the flippin parking lot. How was it safer for her to carry the baby on the icy parking lot 15 feet?

There is no common sense left in the world. There are a thousand what-ifs and we weigh the risks against each other every day. We all make riskier decisions for the sake of convenience when we choose to drive the car to the grocery store rather than walk as you are more likely to be in a car accident than be hit by a car as a pedestrian (assuming there are sidewalks and such).


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## bcblondie (Jun 9, 2009)

Lol. And then you'll get flamed for having your kid on a leash. We can't win!!


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## maddymama (Jan 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bcblondie* 
Lol. And then you'll get flamed for having your kid on a leash. We can't win!!

ha ha ha hah you are so right!!!!!!!!!!!!1
~maddymama


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## Happiestever (May 13, 2007)

I have been in your shoes too. I know plenty of people who live in regular homes who will leave the kids in the car for a second while they run in for something. Life is so much harder in an apartment, and on the third floor too. Goodness tell the old bugger to bugger off.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
I don't think that he should have yelled at you but I also don't think leaving a toddler in a car on the street is a good idea. I always ask people, in regards to leaving their child in the car while running into [insert place here], would you leave your purse, your cell phone or a stack of hundred dollar bills sitting on the back seat in plain view? I mean, it's just for a few minutes. You're just running into the house, the store, the laundromat, whatever. Most people would say absolutely NO.

If the purse, cell phone, or stack of bills was in the same place my kid was, and the car was locked, and I was always in sight of the car, then.....Yes. Actually, I leave my purse with my cell phone in it in the car overnight in the driveway fairly regularly, with the doors locked.

My personal criteria for leaving kids in a car is: Buckled in, windows open if necessary due to weather, doors locked, 30 seconds or less away from the car at a time, and I can always see the car. I can't obsess over the one in a million chance that my car will get hit or carjacked while I'm 20 feet away; I couldn't function in daily life if I did. I rememer when DS was about 4 and DD about 2, I would leave them both strapped in the car in our driveway while I unloaded groceries at home (about 25-30 feet from the driveway to the back door) - the alternative, them both running around the yard (which they never did, they would keep trying to climb into the trunk I was unloading) or running loose in the house were WAY less safe, and trying to gate them or buckle them into highchairs in the house to contain them was less safe too, since they could tip those over potentially whereas they're going NOWHERE in a car seat. And trying to herd both of them making say, 8 trips over a 5-minute period with groceries and them on leashes vs making maybe 3 trips in 2 minutes with just groceries while they were secured in their seats? Makes me shudder just thinking about doing that every week when they were those ages.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *bcblondie*
Lol. And then you'll get flamed for having your kid on a leash. We can't win!!

Word. Though I have used leashes, too.


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## bcblondie (Jun 9, 2009)

Yea I should clarify. I don't hold it against anyone if they chose to use one of those harnesses. It's better than being in a stroller and safer than letting them run free if they're the type to run off, especially if you ahve 2 of them, each running in opposite directions. lol. Every mom has to do what they have to do.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

I lived in a third-floor walkup until about 2 years ago too. I had two kids age 2 and a baby. Anytime I had groceries that required more than one trip once both could navigate the stairs, or anytime I had groceries at all when I had to carry them, they stayed in the car while I ran the stuff up.

I always figured they were safer there--immobilized pretty much--and out of view of the main road in a parking lot, than in the apt. unsupervised, and they could've potentially tried to follow me and fallen down the stairs or anything.

I think what you did sounds safer than taking the chance the baby would run in the road while you have your hands full of groceries. You could SEE THE CAR the WHOLE time!

I don't think the old man had kids of his own, ever, or he would realize that.


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## tjjazzy (Jan 18, 2007)

i'm sorry he yelled at you







the only other thing i can think of is to pack the perishables compactly into bags so that you only take them and DD into the building. leave the other groceries in the car for when DH is home. OR have DH do groceries; i email my husband a list at work and he gets the groceries. i walk everywhere so if i go to a grocery store, the groceries i get are in the buggy. i have told my husband that he is not even to go inside the gas station to pay for gas and leave the kids alone. take them in to pay or make sure he gets gas before he's with them alone (which is rare.) i'm SO paranoid that something will happen (a car will hit our car or something like that and DH won't get back in time to get the kids out safely or they'll roll into traffic.) i'm a little apt to always picture to the worst scenarios. maybe that man you met up with is just as anal and spends way too much time picturing bad things happening! LOL


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maddymama* 
Hugs, mama! We've all been there to some degree. I solved my problem by wearing my toddler on my back in a mei tai or a soft structured carrier while I carried my groceries in. Sometimes it took a second trip, but I knew that DD was safe and I wasn't leaving her alone for any amount of time so no one (read nosy busybody neighbor) could complain about my parenting (other than "That looks dangerous to toss her on your back like that...."
~maddymama

This is what I always did, but w/a ring sling. I did this even when we lived in a regular house on a regular quiet road.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maddymama* 
Stephanie,
I've gotten some flack for that lately, too. I usually smile and say, "DD is perfectly safe in here/back there, but thank you for asking." Then walk on.
I just found out from a friend that I'm the "East coast hippie girl" in the neighborhood- ha ha ha ha ha...... bc of my carriers, CDing, and BFing. I took it as a compliment.


OT, but my hubby just got told the other day by a coworker that he is "such a hippie he is a plant", lol when he was telling about our new beekeeping adventure. Super big compliment!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *tjjazzy* 
i'm sorry he yelled at you







the only other thing i can think of is to pack the perishables compactly into bags so that you only take them and DD into the building. leave the other groceries in the car for when DH is home. OR have DH do groceries; i email my husband a list at work and he gets the groceries. i walk everywhere so if i go to a grocery store, the groceries i get are in the buggy. i have told my husband that he is not even to go inside the gas station to pay for gas and leave the kids alone. take them in to pay or make sure he gets gas before he's with them alone (which is rare.) i'm SO paranoid that something will happen (a car will hit our car or something like that and DH won't get back in time to get the kids out safely or they'll roll into traffic.) i'm a little apt to always picture to the worst scenarios. maybe that man you met up with is just as anal and spends way too much time picturing bad things happening! LOL

When I didn't have dh's help, I would use a sling or MT carrier. Otherwise, I just simply wait to go til dh can help (even now at my kids' ages!), have my oldest dd get groceries, or email a small list to my dh for on his way home.

Hasn't anyone else seen the kids and cars commercials? All it takes is a few seconds for your precious little one to be taken away. Yes, it can happen while driving, walking along the sidewalk, and all other ways, but why introduce yet another way for it to happen?

And about kids and cars in the heat....I have a friend whose grown dd came home for a visit and my friend's little one (he was 2) got in his big sisters car to play. He got locked inside and they almost lost him. If that can happen so easily right out in front of their house, why can't someone come and yank your child out of the car before you have a chance to get back down those steps? Just too scary. We now lock all vehicles outside our house in the heat at all times.


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## Lady Mayapple (Apr 26, 2010)

When I pick up my boys from preschool, either DH or one of their teachers brings them to the lobby which is right by the parking lot. I leave DD in her carseat because it's ridiculous to have to get her out for two seconds and then put her back in. Well, a few years ago someone complained about this and one of the other parents at the school was talking crap about it behind my back. I had to ask the teachers to bring the boys directly to my car, which thankfully they were okay with. I mean honestly, what are people supposed to do? If I go to the gas station and go in to pay cash, I lock the doors and keep the kids in the car. Am I supposed to take all three of them in with me and risk them running around a busy gas station with cars speeding in and out? And then if something tragic happened I'd be arrested for neglect. But if I keep my kids in the car, people have a problem with that too! I just do what suits my family and put the horse blinders on for the rest of the time.


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## Lady Mayapple (Apr 26, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tjjazzy* 
i'm sorry he yelled at you







the only other thing i can think of is to pack the perishables compactly into bags so that you only take them and DD into the building. leave the other groceries in the car for when DH is home. OR have DH do groceries; i email my husband a list at work and he gets the groceries. i walk everywhere so if i go to a grocery store, the groceries i get are in the buggy. i have told my husband that he is not even to go inside the gas station to pay for gas and leave the kids alone. take them in to pay or make sure he gets gas before he's with them alone (which is rare.) i'm SO paranoid that something will happen (a car will hit our car or something like that and DH won't get back in time to get the kids out safely or they'll roll into traffic.) *i'm a little apt to always picture to the worst scenarios. maybe that man you met up with is just as anal and spends way too much time picturing bad things happening!* LOL

My mom is like you LOL. Apparently I'm supposed to keep all of my windows shut and locked at night, even when it's 75 degrees outside on a July night. We don't have central air conditioning, and I told her if she's that concerned, she can pay for the A/C. Until then, the windows stay open. She's convinced that someone is going to crawl in our windows at night and rob or murder us. This would be a huge mistake for the person who would attempt it, believe me. Besides, our hardwood floors creak and crack and I wake up easily, so I think I would hear someone trying to break in. I just can't go through life being paranoid like that.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I leave the kids in the car while I run back inside on regular basis. I also frequently leave my purse on the front seat.

Same.


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## tjjazzy (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lady Mayapple* 
My mom is like you LOL. Apparently I'm supposed to keep all of my windows shut and locked at night, even when it's 75 degrees outside on a July night. We don't have central air conditioning, and I told her if she's that concerned, she can pay for the A/C. Until then, the windows stay open. She's convinced that someone is going to crawl in our windows at night and rob or murder us. This would be a huge mistake for the person who would attempt it, believe me. Besides, our hardwood floors creak and crack and I wake up easily, so I think I would hear someone trying to break in. I just can't go through life being paranoid like that.

i've always been very anxious about what could happen (even as a child.) i've never broken a bone or really hurt myself because i've always been so cautious! at home, though, the house is childproof so the kids run free all day in the dining room, living room, kitchen and playroom. my older son, 4, goes anywhere in the house he likes. he can open the gates and roam freely. my mom actually will follow them from room to room if she's watching them but i leave them be. out of the house though? i'm very paranoid. even when people stop their cars for us to cross the street, i appreciate it but am always really cautious about it. you just never know what other people might do. i don't want to one day be saying "if only i'd..." you know? but i do get a little overboard imagining fires or robbers and killers sometimes! it's just in my nature to worry.


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