# COURT APPOINTED C-SECTION!!! Grrrrr!!!!



## Ms.Doula (Apr 3, 2003)

http://www.timesleader.com/mld/times...ws/7722217.htm

Posted on Fri, Jan. 16, 2004

Court delivers controversy
Mom rejects C-sections; gives birth on own terms
By DAVID WEISS
[email protected]

WILKES-BARRE - A judge late Wednesday afternoon gave a local hospital permission to force a woman to deliver a baby via Caesarean section against her will.
Doctors warned the expectant mother that not having a C-section could kill her and/or her child. But against doctor's orders, Amber Marlowe left the hospital.

Hours later, Wilkes-Barre General Hospital received legal permission to become guardian of the fetus and perform the C-section if Marlowe returned to the hospital.

Marlowe never returned. She gave birth vaginally Thursday morning at Moses Taylor Hospital in Scranton to a baby girl, her and her husband's seventh child. Court papers said it was her seventh pregnancy in seven or eight years. The Marlowes said the mother and infant are healthy.

Attorneys for General Hospital sought the highly unusual action through a lawsuit because its doctors said Marlowe, who went to the hospital Tuesday night, adamantly refused to deliver the fetus by C-section because of "religious" beliefs.

Her refusal came after warnings by doctors that a vaginal delivery could result in death for the fetus because it was expected to weigh 13 pounds. They also were concerned with complications Marlowe had in other pregnancies.

The hospital was acting to "preserve and protect the rights of (the fetus) regarding its health and survival," the hospital's attorney, Mary G. Cummings, wrote in court papers.

Luzerne County Court of Common Pleas Judge Michael Conahan late Wednesday afternoon approved the request.

Marlowe's husband, John, said the hospital made up the story, including the part about the religious beliefs and the fetus' size, after its staff was "arrogant" in trying to force Marlowe to have a C-section.

His wife was initially cleared to give a vaginal birth at General, but doctors held her at the hospital for 13 hours, telling her "horror stories" in trying to change her mind, he said.

"They just kept telling me to do a Caesarean section," Amber Marlowe said. "They were forcing me in to it."

The events began to unfold Tuesday when the Marlowes, of Academy Street in Plymouth, first went to Mercy Hospital in Wilkes-Barre to give birth.

According to Cummings' court papers, which identify the Marlowes as Jane and John Doe for confidentiality reasons:

The couple went to Mercy Hospital where the staff advised them a C-section should be performed for the protection of the mother and fetus.

The couple refused, insisting the fetus be delivered vaginally, and left the hospital.

Later, the couple went to the emergency room at General Hospital, which is part of Wyoming Valley Health Care System.

Drs. Lynne Coslett and Stephen Zeger on Tuesday and Wednesday repeatedly told the Marlowes a C-section was necessary.

But the Marlowes again refused.

"Jane Doe and John Doe have made it clear that they are adamant that they will not consent to a C-section, regardless of the danger that a vaginal delivery presents to Baby Doe," Cummings wrote. "There exists the imminent threat of irreparable harm to Baby Doe in the absence of an immediate order."

John Marlowe said the hospital's request is full of "lies," and is considering taking legal action against General Hospital.

He said his wife wanted a vaginal delivery because all of her prior six births were done that way, including births of children larger than her newborn. A friend of Amber Marlowe also died from a C-section, making her wary of the procedure, the couple said.

"It's up to the mother," said John Marlowe, who has lived in the area for just more than one year. "They insisted she have a C-section."

Amber Marlowe said she had no religious concerns about the procedure. John Marlowe said his family practices typical Christianity, and he does not belong to any radical sect.

The hospital court papers also say during a prior Marlowe birth, a fetus suffered a "shoulder dystocia." That's an obstetric emergency that can severely injure the mother and fetus.

That, John Marlowe said, is also untrue. So is the allegation that the ultrasound showed the fetus at 13 pounds, he said, adding the test showed the infant was just more than 11 pounds. The infant weighed less than 13 pounds at birth, Amber Marlowe said.

John Marlowe did not want the precise weight revealed, and he refused to reveal his or his wife's age. The couple has been married for more than nine years, John Marlowe said.

Conahan's court order gave the hospital permission to notify the Marlowes of the court order if they had returned to General Hospital. Cummings said the ruling was the first of its kind in Pennsylvania.

David Weiss, a Times Leader staff writer, can be reached at 831-7397.


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## TurboClaudia (Nov 18, 2003)

Follow up article: They are pursuing legal action because of the precedent this could set for other birthing women...

http://www.timesleader.com/mld/times...ws/7730516.htm


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## Ms.Doula (Apr 3, 2003)

OHHHHH!! THANKS!!! I hope they get em!!
One thing I don't get..... why not just go have em at home..??? I mean, after 7 kids...... she was experienced enough, yanno???


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## Ms.Doula (Apr 3, 2003)

And just in case the website edits the story out soon,







: Here it is. Copy & Pasted:

Posted on Sun, Jan. 18, 2004

Hospital faces fight in birth dispute
A now-moot Luzerne County court order for a Caesarian section will see a challenge.
By TERRIE MORGAN-BESECKER
[email protected]

WILKES-BARRE - Concerned his case could impact other pregnant women, a Plymouth man said Friday he's working with a national reproductive rights group to challenge a court order that sought to force his wife to undergo a Caesarean section against her will.
John Marlowe said he's pressing on with the case - even though the order is moot since his wife already gave birth to an 11 pound, 9 ounce baby - because he doesn't want other couples to endure the stress they did as they battled hospital officials regarding their decision.

"It's more than my wife. What happens to the next lady that goes in there?" Marlowe said. "If they get away with this, what it's telling people across the country is a hospital has a right to do what it wants, and the woman has no rights."

Marlowe's wife, Amber, checked out against medical advice from Wilkes-Barre General Hospital on Wednesday morning after physicians there insisted she have a Caesarean section because of concerns about the fetus' weight, which was estimated at 13 pounds. She later gave birth vaginally at Moses Taylor Hospital in Scranton.

Unbeknownst to the Marlowes, after they left General Hospital, attorneys for Wyoming Valley Healthcare System sought a court order to gain guardianship of the fetus in case the Marlowes returned to their hospital. The order, granted without the Marlowes' knowledge, forbade them from refusing a Caesarean section if doctors there deemed it medically necessary.

Kevin McDonald, spokesman for the health-care system, said Friday the hospital stands by its decision to seek the order. "These were really unique circumstances. We did what we believed was in the best interest of the patient."

McDonald said as far as the health system is concerned the legal dispute is over.

"The injunction was only effective if she came to our hospital and we had to do a Caesarean section. Since that didn't happen, the order is moot," he said.

But Lynn Paltrow, an attorney specializing in women's reproductive rights, said the issue goes far deeper than the Marlowes.

"This is not a conflict between a pregnant woman and a fetus. It is a conflict between a pregnant woman and her fetus against the raw power of the state to impose an unnecessary surgical procedure on a woman's own body."

Paltrow, of the National Advocates for Pregnant Women in New York City, said she's working with the Marlowes to find a Pennsylvania attorney to fight Conahan's order. She said she believes the couple might also have a civil case against the hospital for violating their rights.

Marlowe said he and his wife are still considering their options and might file suit seeking monetary damages. But he said money is not the key factor motivating him.

"We're talking civil liberties issues, not suing for money," he said. "Right now you have a judge saying a hospital has the right to claim guardianship of an unborn fetus and guardianship after it is born. That's unacceptable. We need to set a precedent that a hospital cannot have higher rights than the parents."


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

My mother told me about this article, it was a local news story. She said that according to the local news, this woman had already given birth vaginally to 6 other children, all of them fairly large, and at least 2 of them were at or near 13 pounds. I'm a little confused as to why a doctor would want a c-section for a woman who had already given birth vaginally to babies that big.


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## StarMama (Jun 25, 2002)

and I wonder what exactly would the hospital have done had they come back? I mean would they have strong armed her into the operating room? Call the cops and cuff her? How do you MAKE her have a c-section??


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## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

forced surgry for childbirth.... talk about birth trauma! horrifying!


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## noodle4u (Jul 19, 2002)

Thats awsome! Well not the hosptials part in it, but that they stood up for thier rights, didnt submit to bullying and are now fighting back.
Yay for them!!!!


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## tinyshoes (Mar 6, 2002)

COOL!!!!!

This is sooooooo cool....good for the Marlowes!!!

It goes without saying that I am sorry for their traumatizing threats from General Hospital, but what a pair of winner parents--they LEFT the nightmare hospital and went on to have the birth they wanted at a different hosptial.

AND that the father is aware of the precident this nonesnse could precipitate!!!! That is wonderful, and kudos to them for seeking legal recourse!

They should absolutely sue the hosptial and this egotisitcal unsafe doctor for violating their human rights.

I hope every pregnant woman in Luzerne County is re-evaluating their birthing choices and avoiding this jerky hosptial.

I am so relieved to have opened this thread and hear this c-sec threat was resolved in a positive way! Things would've been different with a first-time mom....and it is important that the chilling and outrageous lying and scare-tactics used by this hosptial (and gee, maybe some other hosptials in the US, too) are revealed to the public.

Mamas could Clip'n'Save this article to show someone the next time you're asked the "gee, why are you having a homebirth" question.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

ACK!! I cannot imagine what they went through and are still going through!!

My aunt was in a similar situation 30 years ago (but that was 30 years ago) Her oldest son was stuck and they insisted on a c/b. She refused. Both mom and baby were fine (well, they broke baby's jaw to get him out) But I cannot imagine being "forced" to do something like that!


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I am so glad they are following up on this.

As I have said before, though, I think the *real* people who should be suing are the mothers who went through with c-sections at that hospital after being told the COULD NOT deliver a baby vaginally with themselves or the baby dieing. How many people have been treated like this in the past, but we will never know because they had the c-section to "save" the baby?


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## Justice2 (Mar 18, 2003)

OMG







. It's sick, really, what the government is capable of doing....


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

My SIL had a stuck baby 43 years ago; they broke the baby's shoulder without telling her; the way she knew is whe she saw how her DD was bound up when they finally brought the baby to her.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Do you think the mother in the posted case could sue everybody, including the judge, for malicious prosecution?


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## lollaleeloo (Jan 29, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by TiredX2_
*As I have said before, though, I think the *real* people who should be suing are the mothers who went through with c-sections at that hospital after being told the COULD NOT deliver a baby vaginally with themselves or the baby dieing. How many people have been treated like this in the past, but we will never know because they had the c-section to "save" the baby?*
More than you'd ever know. Let me give you an example of this. In the ninth month of my 1st pregnancy, I was diagnosed with herpes during a routine exam. I was immediately pressured to schedule a c-section, in fact, he was ready to schedule me for that Wednesday, but I held off, wanting to research more about herpes. In any case, I requested a culture just to make sure, because I'd been planning an unmedicated midwife-assisted birth and this had been an uneventful pregnancy till now. After researching on the web all night, I found out that according to ACOG, c-section is not indicated UNLESS the woman is having an active outbreak (and in fact, studies show that the vast majority of babies born with herpes are born to asymtomatic women). If I had no lesions by the time I went into labor, there was no reason I couldn't deliver vaginally.
I was about a week away from my EDD so I went back in the next day asked to be put on medication immediately because time was of the essence according what I'd read. When I asked him why he didn't put me on medication right way, or even tell me about the treatment option at all, he said it was because he didn't know too many pregnant women who'd choose to "mess around with pills" this late in their pregnancy, especially if they're going in for surgery. He wrote me out the prescription while shaking his head and insisting I was wasting my time, and how there was a real, if small, risk of a dangerous drug interaction and he didn't know what I was trying to prove. If I was so gung ho on taking medication, why don't I just wait until after the surgery to take it. I told him that I'm taking the medication in hopes of _avoiding_ the surgery, remember? He said there's nothing to be afraid of, that c-sections are extremely safe, I won't feel anything, and anyway, it'll all be over within an hour and then it's Hello Morphine!. "Natural childbirth is overrated in my opinion, and probably not the best choice for you anyway. I mean, look at you. You can't even keep still during an exam. Do you really think you're cut out for labor?" Swear to God, people.

Anyway, I held out and got started on the pills. Every day, at least once a day, I got a call from one of the 3 med-wives in his practice pressuring me to schedule the surgery. This went on all week until I finally told them to leave me alone and that I wasn't scheduling anything until I got the results back from the culture or I go into labor, whichever comes first. That earned me exactly one day of peace. The day of my due date, one of them called and told me that the results were in, and it was positive. I was devastated since I never really believed I had it in the first place. But I still had hope. I told them that there's a good chance I won't be in active outbreak when labor starts as I've been on the medication for 5 days already and I'm technically not even late. She told me that if I went into labor _at any point_ after a recent diagnosis of herpes, any doctor on call would be _forced to perform a c-section anyway_ so I might as well schedule it with my own OB. Besides, if my water breaks, the risk of the baby contracting herpes "goes through the roof" so they would most likely do an emergency c-section, which would (according to her) involve a vertical cut and general anesthesia, meaning not only would I be unconscious for my first baby's birth, and I would never birth vaginally ever. I said how can they do that if ACOG says there's no special risk if there are no active lesions and they countered no doctor worth his salt would be willing to take that kind of risk with an innocent child, "regardless of whether the mother has a different agenda." I said, look, my "agenda" as you call it is to have a safe and healthy baby. If the baby's not in danger, why would I still have to have surgery? Her answer to that was the baby *is* in danger because I have herpes and am in denial, and that I need to make peace with the fact that a c-section is the best course for me and the baby.

Then, after a few more horrifying descriptions of herpes-infected babies, she played their trump card and told me that even if I got 'lucky' and the baby _appeared to be healthy_, it's not like they're gonna "let me just walk out" with the baby. They'd most likely *keep* the baby, in NICU, for some time under observation to make sure that the baby didn't develop anything. At that point, it'd be between me and Child Protective Services if the hospital isn't convinced that I'd seek appropriate treatment if the baby needed it. Having 2 AMA's (Against Medical Advice) in my file already certainly wouldn't help my case. I was like Case? What Case? I felt like I was having a nightmare. (fyi, the other AMA was my declining to drink the Glucola as part of their Glucose Tolerance Test. It seemed to me that if I actually had gestational diabetes, the absolute worst thing to do would be to down a drink containing 100 grams of sugar on an empty stomach and let it sit for 3 hours. Their answer to that was that if anything happened and I had a "reaction," wouldn't I want it to be in a doctor's office? I kid you not. So, no, I chose not to down a 1/2 cup of sugar for breakfast in order to see if doing so would make me really, really sick. Sorry if that sounds insane to anyone. BTW, when I turned down the Glucola, they wouldn't give me any other Glucose Tolerance Test at all. For my next pregnancy, my *new* midwife group gave me a GTT using a normal breakfast. But I digress.) I caved and scheduled the surgery for early Monday morning and had my dd1. And you can bet I was on my best behavior for the 4 days I was in the hospital afterwards. I didn't question, I didn't complain, and was effusive in my praise and gratitude to anyone that would listen. I couldn't have been a more agreeable patient if you put a gun to my head.

A year and a half later when I was pregnant with dd2, I went to my old practice to get a copy of my records transferred to my new practice. It was then I saw that the culture results came in the day AFTER my surgery, and that they were NEGATIVE (which I already knew in my heart and also because, whatever the doc claims he saw, I didn't see or feel anything that felt like a lesion). The practice had lied to me about the results to pressure me into the surgery and, in fact, never even told me that I didn't have it. 20/20 hindsight (and common sense) says I should have gotten a 2nd opinion, but I trusted in the expertise of the practice and anyway, never ever considered that they would actually try to deceive me. I consulted 3 lawyers about what I considered to have been an assault on my person, because this wasn't informed consent; this was misinformed consent, and someone needed to be held accountable. I was told the same thing each time. They can't take my case. Why? Because a c-section is standard of care for a diagnosis of herpes. "But it was a MISdiagnosis," I reminded them, "and plus they threatened me and lied to me to get me to consent to unnecessary surgery." I was told that even if everything I'm saying is true (as if it wouldn't be) it's simply not provable that it was deliberate, but even if it were, the baby and I are alive and well, so there are no damages, no matter how damaged I may feel.

Regardless of whether they get any legal justice, the Marlowes are like superheroes in my book. Heading into it, I never dreamed doctors could just go around cutting people open for any reason they want, then go on to congratulate themselves on not killing anybody, but that is exactly the state of affairs in obstetrics today. If a doctor cut a healthy kidney out of a healthy woman, you'd call him a hack; but cut a healthy baby out of a healthy woman, he's a hero. The truth is, according to "standard of care" there is no such thing as an unnecessary c-section, not even one that resulted from their misdiagnosis. In short, you can pretty much only sue OB's for the surgeries they *don't* do. I'd be surprised if the Marlowes manage to find someone to represent them. Elated beyond words, but surprised nonetheless.


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## Ms.Doula (Apr 3, 2003)

OMG!!!









I just cant think of anything to say!!









THIS:

Quote:

If a doctor cut a healthy kidney out of a healthy woman, you'd call him a hack; but cut a healthy baby out of a healthy woman, he's a hero.
OMG! SOOOOO TRUE!!!







I am pissed! I feel violated & I have never been through what you have experienced! I just read your story!
















Hope you are having a Homebirth next time!!









~Melissa


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## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

For once, I'm speechless....


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## lollaleeloo (Jan 29, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Ms.Doula_
*Hope you are having a Homebirth next time!!
*
Sure did!









My dd2 was a hosptital VBAC induction with all the trimmings, i.e., CFM, pitocin, internals on the hour, partially effective epidural with a side of convulsions, catheter, internal fetal scalp monitoring, lithotomy pushing, big-ass tear, and for desert, they did that procedure whose name escapes me where they reach inside your body as deep as their arm can go and attempt to manually drag your placenta out, all the while sweeping their hand along the inside of your uterus to make sure they get all the chunks out. Still, even though the whole experience was far worse than anything I ever imagined, it was a big piece of cake compared to the first looooooooong walk across the room to the bathroom after my c-section (with each subsequent excursion, only infintessimally less excruciating than the last). Yup, I can see why they call c-sections "the easy way out."

And the reason for my induction? Well, there was some disagreement as to the due date. From my LMP calculations, I was due 1/29, however, based on the results of an U/S they performed, they determined that either I was 2 weeks further along than I thought, or the baby must be HUGE. In any case, I was either 1 week late or 3 weeks late, so needless to say, they had to get this enormous baby out NOW! or, you guessed it, risk another c-section. My giant baby weighed in at 8lb 11oz, and was, except for the wounds in her scalp where they attached the electrodes for the internal fetal monitoring, a perfectly fine and healthy baby girl, and not post-date in any way.

My ds, who I had just last March, was a midwife-attended HBAC.







'Nuff said.


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## caroline9 (Jan 13, 2004)

WOW, I am horrified that you experienced that with your first, though I actually shouldn't be surpised. I am so sorry for your maltreatment. I too had a c-section which was designated as somewhat emergency after 30 hours of labor and 6 hrs of pushing, but afterwards I did enough reseach to determine that it was most likely the "cascade of interventions" and the lack of knowledge on how to turn a posterior baby that landed me in the OR, I am hoping for an HBAC next time. God I agree, what a joke to call a c-section as "the easy way out," I guess unless you think it is easy not being able to pick up your baby without experiencing excruciating pain for weeks and twinges for months.

I am so glad that this couple is fighting against the wretched standards that presume a c-sectron is better, or best for the baby. What a load of bunk that notion is, (usually) but it has permeated our culture so that c-sections are so rampant and VBACs are so unattainable that now we have to seek alternative care if we want them. That care is not a bad thing, but often it is not covered by insurance, and that makes me angry. I hope this couple gets the truth of unnecessary c-section on the map!

Oh yeh, and I should add, Iw as given an augmentation dose of pitcoin completely without my consent, at one point a I asked "what's that bag for" Abotu 10 hours into my labor, and the nurse said, "oh, that's your pitocin.' WTF? As a result, IMO I was unable to let the epi wear off in order to push in different positions without experiencing excuciating pain, and ultiamtely getting too exhausted to do anything effectively...I am still angry about that. Seems like hospitals practice uninformed consent all over the palce these days. ( though your situation was far more so than that!)


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## FrumDoula (Jun 10, 2003)

Everytime I think I've heard it all, I get hit with stuff like this.

First off, let me express my sincere sympathy to you for having gone through this horrific event. This was unfair, and more importantly, it was illegal coercion.

A couple of thoughts. First off:

1. This kind of crap really pisses me off. Sorry, had to get that out.

2. Contact ACOG and ACNM. Tell them your story. Include your records. Include everything. Draft a pretty little letter as followup, and make sure you write down the names of EVERYONE you spoke to on the way to contacting the pertinent people. That includes administrative personnel. (Get all addresses, too.)

When you send these letters off, be sure to not only contact their Patient Complaint Department, but make sure you know who the Presidents of those organizations as well. CC the letters to them, if you're not directly addressing them. Might want to send the original letter to the Presidents, then CC the other departments. Don't want those letters getting "lost" on the way to the top. Send them via Certified Mail, if you can, to make sure they can't lie about not getting it. Signature Confirmation is a GOOD THING!









I would suggest contacting both the state AND national boards. As I said, get NAMES. Be sure, if you really want to get some attention, to CC the letters to their Media Representatives as well. That should get you the beginnings of a response.

3. File a complaint with the state medical and nursing boards as well. Do you remember who gave you the news about the culture being positive? Do be sure to put their name in BOLD, girlfriend. Check their license #, if you can.

4. Contact every childbirth educator you know in town, or at least in the area serving your part of town. Tell them your story.

5. Write to the head of the clinic you went to. Write to the President of the hospital, as well as their Patient Relations Representative. Also CC to their media rep. Mention that you will tell every person with a pulse that you meet that you will be sure to tell them what kind of experience you had with this hospital and this physician group. Say you're pretty sure that under the state law, lying to a patient and coercing them to have major surgery is probably a tad illegal. Tell them you'll mention to ALL your friends and neighbors, too, what happens when a woman at their hospital questions her care using ACOG and ACNM accepted standards of care. Hospitals are, after all, a business, and child bearing women are the cash cows of their business. (I'm not calling mamas cows, people - chill out.







)

6. Contact, if you feel you are philosophically ok with this, the nearest chapter of National Organization for Women or some other reproductive rights group. Perhaps a midwifery group, too. Tell them your story. They might be up for doing some sort of guerilla protest outside the hospital - you know, lots of potentially embarassing signs about the doctors lying to women. That sort of thing. Stuff that gets you an immediate appointment with the hospital lawyer and the President of the hospital. Do not meet with the hospital unless you are with a lawyer or at least very knowledgeable friend. Carry a tape recorder with you, of course.









7. Contact your state representative and senator. Depending where you are, these politicians are usually EXTREMELY approachable and easy to get ahold of. And if you're really feeling pissed off, contact your US Representative. Nothing perks up the ears of a hospital and doctor's office like a politician calling for comment on the story of a lying-ass doctor and midwife. Trust me, if you get just 5 people to call your state representative on your behalf, you'll see action. This works with either conservative or liberal politicians, since it's a reproductive rights matter for liberals, and pro-maternity policy for conservatives. Be sure and tell them you were using ACOG and ACNM standards, that you're not some fruitcake simply refusing a C/S for the fun of it while your baby was in danger. Follow up, as always, with letter, preferably CC'ed to your doctors office and the hospital where they have privileges. If you don't think this is a political matter - THINK AGAIN. Tell them you're a registered voter, too. And mention if you know this is an election year for them.

8. Keep calling lawyers. National Organization for Women's (or some other group) main offices may well be able to put you in touch with a woman-friendly lawyer. Try also calling the state bar association, particularly the Women's Bar Association. Don't just stop at 3 lawyers. It is not simply about a healthy baby. It's about a woman's fundamental right to make fully informed choices. Don't lose sight of that.

9. Call Department of Family Services. Ask to speak to the head, if you can. Ask them if they enjoy having their name used to threaten pregnant women who are NOT endangering their babies in any way. Follow up, as always, with a letter, then CC it to the hospital and doctor's office.

10. Contact your insurance carrier. (As before, the Patient Rep's and the President, as well as their media reps.) Ask why they were forced to pay extra for a procedure that was clearly unnecessary, as well as for a longer hospital stay. Might want to lay it out in money terms, since those SOB's typically only respond to bottom-dollar comments. Again, CC it to your doc and hospital. They just LOVE these types of letters.









Ok, that's all I can think of for now.







If you need help with the drafting of letters, finding addresses or contacting politicians (I used to be a woman's health AND political activist, and am a doula now, so I'm far from intimidated by these people) I would LOVE to help you seek revenge .... er, justice.
















Seriously - if you have the stomach for it, and would like the support, please know I would love to help you. Do not be afraid to contact me. Compile the list of everyone you plan to contact about the doctor, then send it to them with a letter explaining what happens to an office when they LIE to a patient and coerce her into an unnecessary procedure. I think you'll get a phone call back.

Oh! One last person to contact! Henci Goer @ www.hencigoer.com She's a birth activist and author. She is my hero, too. She's collecting horror stories of birthing women. She might also be an excellent source of information and ideas.

And let's all repeat one more time for good measure - THIS REALLY PISSED ME OFF!!

Good luck to you. The choices are yours, but I promise, if you follow some of these steps with a little help from your mama friends, you WILL see some action on this issue.

Much love to you and your babies -

Alison


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## Ms.Doula (Apr 3, 2003)

HOLY COW (cow crop) MOMMA!!! You ROCK!!!









I will save these tips for future use (Just in case someone I know needs em)


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## FrumDoula (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Ms.Doula_
*HOLY COW (cow crop) MOMMA!!! You ROCK!!!









I will save these tips for future use (Just in case someone I know needs em)







*
Thank you daaaahhhhlings. No applause - just throw money.









Really, truly, I'm a very nice person. I know I sound slightly insane in the post, but I truly believe that people will lie to women about their health as long as they're not held accountable. Now, if you've been traumatized, I am not arguing that you must pursue any particular course of action. It's your choice to take whatever action you feel is necessary.

But there are always alternatives to silence, if a person so wishes.

Alison


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## Alegria (Jul 21, 2002)

FrumDoula How late after th fact can this matter be persued?


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## lollaleeloo (Jan 29, 2003)

Alegria, the statute of limitations varies by state. Here is a site I found. http://www.medical-malpractice-lawye...lpractice.html so you can look yours up. In NY, it's 2 1/2 yrs, so that opportunity is lost to me now.

FrumDoula: You are a total kick-ass warrior. I wish I knew about this site back in '99. I'm saving this list you put together. It's too late for me, but I think it's a pretty safe bet I'll run into another woman who felt mugged by her c-sec, instead of rescued. I know this might not make any sense, but you have no idea how validating it is to read about my fears coming true with someone else. I never said out loud before how much I was afraid of having them take my baby away. It sounds crazy and paranoid, but now, reasonable as well. Only dh and 2 of our closest friends even know the whole story. He was subject to all the manipulations and deceptions that I was. I don't think I have to describe what a grenade that diagnosis of herpes was, lobbed into our new marriage. Thankfully, we never lost faith in each other, and reallly, only we know what a total vindication that negative herpes culture turned out to be. When I decided to go for an HBAC, he was behind me 100%. Feeling very wam and lovey toward dh right now. He's sound asleep and I should be too.

Goodnight, moms.


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## FrumDoula (Jun 10, 2003)

The statute of limitation for medical malpractice may be past, but what about coercion, assualt and battery?

A case could be made for those, as well as, if you really got a pushy lawyer, conspiracy, since they doctor and nurse lied togther about your condition in order to get you to aquiese. (sp)

I do not think it's a done deal quite yet. I would need to check the statues in your state regarding assault, battery and conspiracy.

I think it would be worth checking out with a good lawyer. Because you were threatened, you're more like a rape victim in the sense that the trauma and sense of isolation caused you to take a long time in reporting.

Add to that the cultural "shame" put on things like a herpes diagnosis, and you have a recipe for silence that protects your health care providers way more than it protects you.

NEVER, EVER BE ASHAMED. And know that you are far from alone.

Alison


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## Justice2 (Mar 18, 2003)

lollaleeloo...Oh sweetie,







s to you. My soul cries for the horror that you experienced.

Ms. Doula...you are awesome


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

lollaleeloo: about the ob and his staff..




















































Why not contact the ACLU? This is a forced treatment issue after all. Coersion, lying, blackmail....

AUGH.

And I had similar with my son over GBS! Never mind the 1hr gt I failed - even though my body was trying to get me to barf to get rid of the sugar crap. I was told by the tech that if I had barfed, the test would have been invalidated!??!!

Gee.. pucking up that sugar crap - wouldn't that mean that my body is handly sugars well?


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## MelMel (Nov 9, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by lollaleeloo_
*"Natural childbirth is overrated in my opinion, and probably not the best choice for you anyway. I mean, look at you. You can't even keep still during an exam. Do you really think you're cut out for labor?" Swear to God, people.
*
my OB said the same thing to me when I showed her my birth plan.

thanks so much for sharing your story.

I am so pleased to rea din your siggy about your next births







I hope to triumph as well


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

Ms.Doula-- thanks for posting the article. I am horrified. And very concerned about the precident this could set.

ANd the women's stories here.. I too am speechless. ((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))) to the brave mamas whoe suffered.

more later...kids waking up.


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Am in awe that I missed this thread when it first showed up. What an incredible story.

lollaleeloo







your story is mind-blowing. Glad your babies and you are okay









And FrumDoula


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