# I do solemnly swear, here on MDC to never say...



## jennygoat (Jan 19, 2006)

SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!!! to my children - though there are some adults who just might hear it.

Now that dd is showing intrest in crawling/walking and babbling I am appaled at the number of people who say "you try to get them to walk and talk for the first year and then spend the next 15 years telling them to SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP. NONONO I WILL NEVER. Are people just saying this to have a conversation?? Like asking how is she sleeping? I don't even know how to answer this one - like why do you hate your children so much??

Just had to vent - I am finding that many people like to make it some kind of joke about how anoying kids are. Is that some kind of indicator of the adverage american atitude towards chidren? - how sad. So few comment on how much joy a child can be, seems everyone just wants to bitch about how incovenient children are.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

I say it as a joke when DD isn't around because my goodness she just







all the time and honestly there are times that I wouldn't mind her being quiet for just a FEW minutes while I read a recipe that i picked out for dinner.

That and she's SO Full of energy she's like a bull in a china shop at times...

I dont tell her to "sit down and shut up" but when she *does* get to that point with me. than I gently tell her mommy needs her to settle down for just a few minutes so she doesn't mess up dinner and make it yucky.









Of course, everyone has different limitus tests IRT patience. Mine..I'm one that enjoys her silence and solitude...and with a child who's tongue is hinged in the middle and flaps at both ends...my patience is well tested...


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I don't think most people "hate" their children. I think that many parents (myself included) get frustrated and overwhelmed at times, and it's not easy to express those kinds of emotions. Joking about it is one socially acceptable way to vent some of that frustration.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
I don't think most people "hate" their children. I think that many parents (myself included) get frustrated and overwhelmed at times, and it's not easy to express those kinds of emotions. Joking about it is one socially acceptable way to vent some of that frustration.

Yup, it's better to joke about it amongst a group of adults and get it off your chest, than to take it out on your child.

I just remind myself, when I come here, that this is a forum for parents seeking advice in their day to day discipline routine so of COURSE you're gonna see alot of negativity here...because well, you dont ask for advice for when your kid is acting WELL do you?


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

I think that expression is more of a joke between parents, especially to soothe those who are worried about a particular delay...

like...

Me: "You know, I'm worried about my 19 month old DS who isn't talking yet..."

Friend: "Don't worry, a year from now you'll be worrying about how to get him to shut up!"


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## fierymyst (May 27, 2006)

I can't even go down the road of the mistakes parents make today with children they had to have yet can't make time for....

I do joke with others about my little monsters but they know that they aren't and truly I am blessed and overall they are good kids (and I've been around a lot). I also call them brats but in a fun loving way, never derogatory. I try to keep an open mind about all of it. I learned a long time ago when I taught preschoolers how to tune out the blah, blah, blah and pick up the important... now I've had people tell me how awful that is but hey its what kept me sane and I don't feel my girls are hurting for it. I listen when I need to but sometimes I don't need to know the correct shade of color of each blade of grass in our backyard.... trust me, it helps my sanity!

We never use the word shut up in our house, I'd rather hear them use other curse words than that disrespectful word.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

I guess I don't relate.









<<donning flame suit>>

I have never joked like that with anyone about DS - no matter how frustrated I've ever been. And I don't understand when parents do that.

Though I suppose that if it's a choice between saying ugly things about your kids to them or to other people, it's a clear choice. But I still think doing so hints to the way we really view them - what we do and say during the challenging times...


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

*


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## ani'smommy (Nov 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fierymyst*
We never use the word shut up in our house, I'd rather hear them use other curse words than that disrespectful word.









: That was always the rule growing up in our house. That and no calling someone an idiot. My friends always thought it was sooo funny that my parents didn't really have a problem with "curse" words, but had a big problem with "shut up." We never really swore in our house either though. I guess because it wasn't vorboten it didn't have much appeal.


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## L&IsMama (Jan 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APMom98*
edited to remove deleted post.









:


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:

To say that the things I say or think during the stressful times hints as to how I really see my children is not only hurtful, it's wrong.
Or maybe I was just frustrated and didn't mean it?









Well, I've been very burned out too. And in my darkest moments when I've hated life and didn't know if I could do one more thing, disparaging remarks about my kid have never come out.

Quote:

But that does NOT mean that I view them as a PITA (as I said to a friend just last week), or a spoiled brat (as I said to dh on the phone once). They aren't.
Then why say _that_? Why not complain about the things that are really getting you down? Not enough support or resourses, enhaustion... In my case injury and illness? Why rag on the kids?

Do parents who do this do so with any other aspect of life? If you drive over a nail and have a blow-out, do you curse the car and call it names, or do you vent about the situation? This reminds me of when women remark on a friend they deem "more beautiful", and then say jokingly how much they hate her. Do they? Even if not, there is a seed of animosity there.

I believe that saying those things and calling it venting can be seen from several angles. For example, that giving voice to those ideas that our kids are spoiled or bratty - even "joking" - causes them to seep into our thinking. I don't even think it's an effective catharsis as actually voicing our needs that are lacking is.

It has always been my experience that we become the mind that we practice.

Whether there is a kernel already there that makes a parent say those things, or the voicing of them as "jokes" brings it into one's thinking, there is no good that can come of it - especially when it would be remarkably easier to just complain about whatever the real issue is.


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## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennygoat*
I do solemnly swear, here on MDC to never say SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!!! to my children.

Um, how about "_Please_ just sit down and be quiet!" I do believe I've said those words.







:

I would never say "sit down and shut up", but unless you are hanging around a rather unsavory bunch, I doubt many of these parents you are talking to would say that either.

I agree with the pp's that people who say that are just joking about a very real phenomenon -- the
























































moments of early childhood. It really can get on your nerves sometimes, and joking about responding like a "bad parent" is one way some people release the stress. I can understand why that kind of joking might disturb you, and you may never feel the need to engage in it. But don't read too much into it when other parents do.









Quote:

So few comment on how much joy a child can be, seems everyone just wants to bitch about how incovenient children are.
I re-read your post, and come to think of it, maybe you do need some new friends. If *all* they are doing is complaining, then that's an indication of an imbalance. My friends and I do much more talking about good and/or neutral issues with our children than we do complaining or joking about the bad stuff. We do vent about the difficult moments of parenting, but it's not all the time.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APMom98*
edited to remove deleted post.

From one Military Momma to another









I have a hard enough time with just ONE right now, you must have the patience of a saint!


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Seriously, people, I would rather have someone joke a bit to a friend or vent here than actually take out real frustration on their kids. It does not mean they love their kids any less, nor value them any less than other parents do. We are all human.

I mean, I see the point if it is a constant thing. If all you do is gripe, then you might want to re-group. If all you do is joke around, you might want to check into why you do it all of the time.

To the OP: I agree that if all of your friends are always and only complaining about their kids, then you need to find new friends. Me and my friends talk about everything.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Just seems like if we need to vent - and we all need to vent - that it's more effective at releasing our frustration to vent about the actual things that are problems in our lives. Like the military, unreasonable schedules, incompetent companies that waste hours of our time, how much your back hurts from playing in the sandbox all day...

And all of you are admiting that you don't belive what you are saying about your kids. So it's not even effective venting if it's not real.

If complaining about te kids is actually helping all that much, maybe it begs a closer examination.

Let's take this 10-15 years into the future... Your kids are hangin' with friends in the mall or park, and they are venting about life. Are they better off just saying insulting things about you, or are they better off emoting about what's really bothering them?

Or is the line blurred?


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

aira, your posts are very thought provoking for me. Thank you.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aira*
Whether there is a kernel already there that makes a parent say those things, or the voicing of them as "jokes" brings it into one's thinking, there is no good that can come of it - especially when it would be remarkably easier to just complain about whatever the real issue is.

ITA.


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

*


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## fierymyst (May 27, 2006)

My thoughts to add on this, especially after APMom's story







is that it just goes to show that we are all human. Yes I chose to be a mom, Yes I love my children more than life, Yes they are my world, but I am human and I make mistakes, I get frustrated, I even get mad occasionally. Its how we deal with those feelings and let that side show that counts. I am no where close to perfect, you all have no idea how imperfect but I feel overall my kids are pretty stable. They are polite, well mannered, ornery, sweet children and I feel very lucky that they have turned out the way they have. Yes I have had a few Mommy Dearest moments







but as I get older I have learned to tell the children that mommy just needs some time alone (of course I don't have toddlers) and then I can deal with the situation. Do I vent to my friends about my frustrations with my kids, hell yes!!! My children never know and I don't keep that bottled up inside. Also I get the opinion of my friends on the situation and therefore get to look at it from another view. You wouldn't believe how many "ahhhhh haaaa's" that has created for me.

Wouldn't it be great if I went around saying what perfect angelic children I have and only think thoughts like that but its not reality. We are all human. As long as we keep our children from hearing it and have the ability to vent to our friends then I don't see the harm.


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## supernatural (Jul 26, 2005)

This is supposed to be funny. In fact, I'm pretty sure it came from a comedian some time ago. I've said it a few times in jest, and have never once _literally_ told my children to "sit down and shut up." It's not meant to be literal. You do spend the first two years teaching them to walk and talk, and after they're 2 they spend a lot of time climbing onto the table ("Please sit before you fall.") and squealing loud enough to shatter the windows at restaurants ("We use quiet voices indoors.")

There are a lot of days when I feel I've told my children to be quiet, play quietly, stop shouting, etc. as well as telling them to get down, sit down, stay off about a thousand things. Personally I would rather joke about this frustration than say something like, "I just am so sick of telling them to be quiet all day." Joking about the trials of parenthood is better than _complaining_ about my children.


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## jennygoat (Jan 19, 2006)

Makes me think about lots of stuff.

Mostly these are not my friends that say this - it is complete strangers that seem to want me to know how much my kids are going to drive me nuts. And NON of them have been moms with three little kids to drive them batty. It is mostly old people and people with no kids and men. I did not really think about all the negativity until an older woman tod me how sweet my dd is and how happy I seem to be her mom, wich is pretty much how I feel, even when dd is screaming.
Accually one lady who was my friend until we had kids keeps telling me what a b...h her little girl is. She doesn't think she says it where the girl can hear but I think it is turning out to be a self fufilling prophecy.

Yes I will say "please sit down and listen, or pay attention or what ever it is that I need them to do. But in the spirit of AP and GD and all that I think Explaining what you need done and why is the way. Not telling the kid to disengage from the world which is basically what sit down and shut up does.

Yes I know thinking sanely around kids is hard - that is why I made myself a pledge not to say such things, maybe this conversation will help me in a moment of frustration.

You may not say such things around your own kids so please don't say them about your kids (much less my kids) around my kids. I have been wondering lately just how much my 6 month old understands about what is said - she certainly picks up emotions and tone of voice messages.

I try to use the will it matter? question in my life to sort out important stuff from other stuff. It goes like this.

Will it matter next week if I get to the store today? no
Will it matter next year if I talk on the phone for another 5 minutes?no
Will it matter in 50 years if I get the kids dressed today? no
Will it matter in a hundred years if I talk to my child about how each blade of grass is different? --- yes it might. Is she an artist? is she a lover of nature? is she thinking about god?


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

*


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennygoat*
She doesn't think she says it where the girl can hear but I think it is turning out to be a self fufilling prophecy.

Bingo!

APMom98...









I feel ya! I've been in really dark places myself. I know the frustration. I'm only sayin' that if we practice _in those moments_ seeing our kids as they are - not not seeing them as their "bad behavior" - we will have a more consistently peacful relationship in subsequent ard times. What we practice is what we manifest. Even the small things.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APMom98*
Edited to remove deleted post.

Certainly this is true. In fact, I'd say that it's not healthy for them ever to think that they are the center of the universe, and should always feel that they are an equally important member of the family.

But I don't understand the point above. Is it that they would have this misunderstanding if they are never called spoiled in private?

I don't see the either/or here...


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

*


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## Hatteras Gal (Jun 1, 2004)

APMom,









I know you're a fantastic mom and I know what a difficult year you've had. Stay strong!


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## robl (May 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APMom98*
Edited to remove deleted post.

At best this is Argumentum ad Hominem, bordering on Argumentum ad Baculum, and it's uncalled for.

At worst, it's an example of maybe not liking how you feel about this discussion and, instead of addressing what you actually don't like directly, resorting to name-calling? Can you see how if you're doing this with adults, that this same tecnique may incite your kids?


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## Hatteras Gal (Jun 1, 2004)

I think part of the frustration with this thread is a couple of the people posting have only one child, and have no idea what it's like to have 2 or more children pulling you in several different directions at once. It's so easy to say I'll never say this or think this. But if you're never in the situation of another person, how can you possibly state that absolute?


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

*


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## Ayala Eilon (Apr 8, 2006)

I have no need to vent about my children. I think parenting is a path that gives us oppportunity to work on ourselves and grow up. With my fourth baby now, I can happily said that I learned not to get annoyed. Being frustrated and annoyed is my problem. I don't ask my children to cater to my silly limitations any more. Instead, I learned to enjoy the way they are. My need for quiet and calm can wait a few years. Now I taught myself to look forward to the joy, noise, aliveness and mess of children. This way I get what I learned to want, and they get to be children. On the back of Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves book, it says: Taking The Struggle Out Of Childrearing. I owe this book my struggle free life with four well behaved yet full of life children.They behave so well of their own, because I don't struggle against their nature.


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

Honestly, there are people in this world who didn't sometimes want their kids to dissappear for a minute and let them think a whole thought, start to finish, without interjections on the nature of balls, windows, bugs, water, or whatever hits their wonderfully creative and thoughtful and yes, LOUD child brains at the moment?

Really?

Because I've never met one.

I don't walk around talking about how I wish my kids would shut up. I don't tell them to shut up (although I do occassionally ask for a 'quiet minute').

Apmom98 as another mom of 3 - YES I HEAR YOU. Almost every parent is different once they've had more than one child. It changes your brain, seriously.

The thing is, it might not matter next year that I get 5 minutes to myself today. But it will matter now, to me. My children get every other second of my awake time and it is not too much to ask of them that they respect me as a person as well.

I think that my third child is terribly difficult and demanding. She is 17mo and nurses every hour or so, sleeps 9 hours total in a 24 hour period, climbs like a little monkey, LOVES to remove the elements from the stove and rearrange the cabinets and...and...and..and if you knew her you'd probably think the same, if not worse (seriously! Other AP parents I'm friends with say they don't know how they'd be able to keep up with her!). She's sitting in my lap right now getting cuddles while she eats a cracker. I love her to pieces. Do you love your child more than I love mine just because mine has driven me nuts a few times? That because I just said all that nasty-but-true stuff about her, I'm inferior to you?

What will you think of yourself when you're in the same place? I believe almost all of us get there at some point or another. Maybe your time will come when your child is a little older. At some point you will think something nasty about your child. Come to terms with the fact that you can be mad, be irritated, at someone you love.


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## CrazyRED (Mar 18, 2005)

I mostly lurk here, but I have to respond to a couple of things.

We are all human and we all make mistakes. When you know better, you do better. But I have had times (usually in the middle of the night







) when my sheer exhaustion, frustration, and lack of support hit the limit. I certainly wasn't thinking about what I "knew" to be better. I screwed up. The best that I could do was apologize and discuss the matter with DC the next day.

Kids understand that we love them, even when we are at our worst.

One of the reasons that I don't post here very often is because of the judgement. Walk a mile in another's shoes before you go around throwing your judgement around.

You would think that as mothers we could at the very least empathize with each other. Especially those who are having rough times. We have all BTDT with a fussy babe, cranky toddler, sick children. Sometimes all at once. But I guess it is easier to put another mother down for her mistakes. I guess it makes some people feel better about their own parenting.

AP- I can't say enough how much I admire you. My DH works long hours, but eventually he comes home. I can take an afternoon to myself occasionally. I KNOW that I would be a mess if I were in your shoes. You are so concerned with how you treat your DC, and I know how terrible you feel when you show your frustration in front of them.


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## CrazyRED (Mar 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nikirj*
Honestly, there are people in this world who didn't sometimes want their kids to dissappear for a minute and let them think a whole thought, start to finish, without interjections on the nature of balls, windows, bugs, water, or whatever hits their wonderfully creative and thoughtful and yes, LOUD child brains at the moment?

Really?

Because I've never met one.

I don't walk around talking about how I wish my kids would shut up. I don't tell them to shut up (although I do occassionally ask for a 'quiet minute').

Apmom98 as another mom of 3 - YES I HEAR YOU. Almost every parent is different once they've had more than one child. It changes your brain, seriously.

The thing is, it might not matter next year that I get 5 minutes to myself today. But it will matter now, to me. My children get every other second of my awake time and it is not too much to ask of them that they respect me as a person as well.

I think that my third child is terribly difficult and demanding. She is 17mo and nurses every hour or so, sleeps 9 hours total in a 24 hour period, climbs like a little monkey, LOVES to remove the elements from the stove and rearrange the cabinets and...and...and..and if you knew her you'd probably think the same, if not worse (seriously! Other AP parents I'm friends with say they don't know how they'd be able to keep up with her!). She's sitting in my lap right now getting cuddles while she eats a cracker. I love her to pieces. Do you love your child more than I love mine just because mine has driven me nuts a few times? That because I just said all that nasty-but-true stuff about her, I'm inferior to you?

What will you think of yourself when you're in the same place? I believe almost all of us get there at some point or another. Maybe your time will come when your child is a little older. At some point you will think something nasty about your child. Come to terms with the fact that you can be mad, be irritated, at someone you love.









Niki, I think we have the same DD.


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## Hatteras Gal (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CrazyRED*
One of the reasons that I don't post here very often is because of the judgement. Walk a mile in another's shoes before you go around throwing your judgement around.


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CrazyRED*

One of the reasons that I don't post here very often is because of the judgement. Walk a mile in another's shoes before you go around throwing your judgement around.








































And thank you. I am only doing the best that I can do at each particular moment of my day, just like every other mother out there.


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## fierymyst (May 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nikirj*
Honestly, there are people in this world who didn't sometimes want their kids to dissappear for a minute and let them think a whole thought, start to finish, without interjections on the nature of balls, windows, bugs, water, or whatever hits their wonderfully creative and thoughtful and yes, LOUD child brains at the moment?

Really?

Because I've never met one.

I don't walk around talking about how I wish my kids would shut up. I don't tell them to shut up (although I do occassionally ask for a 'quiet minute').

Apmom98 as another mom of 3 - YES I HEAR YOU. Almost every parent is different once they've had more than one child. It changes your brain, seriously.

The thing is, it might not matter next year that I get 5 minutes to myself today. But it will matter now, to me. My children get every other second of my awake time and it is not too much to ask of them that they respect me as a person as well.

I think that my third child is terribly difficult and demanding. She is 17mo and nurses every hour or so, sleeps 9 hours total in a 24 hour period, climbs like a little monkey, LOVES to remove the elements from the stove and rearrange the cabinets and...and...and..and if you knew her you'd probably think the same, if not worse (seriously! Other AP parents I'm friends with say they don't know how they'd be able to keep up with her!). She's sitting in my lap right now getting cuddles while she eats a cracker. I love her to pieces. Do you love your child more than I love mine just because mine has driven me nuts a few times? That because I just said all that nasty-but-true stuff about her, I'm inferior to you?

What will you think of yourself when you're in the same place? I believe almost all of us get there at some point or another. Maybe your time will come when your child is a little older. At some point you will think something nasty about your child. Come to terms with the fact that you can be mad, be irritated, at someone you love.























:


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## calicokatt (Mar 14, 2005)

Aira, it appears that you have only one child, aged three, correct? Ap has three, I have four, and let me just tell you this:
The experience changes with each child. There are days where I feel like I'm going to completely lose my mind, where yes, I actually wish my kids WOULD just sit down and shut up for a minute or two. I can understand where you are coming from, however, when you have a crying 1.5 yr old begging to nurse, a whining 5 yr old who is ALWAYS hungry and wants something to eat NOW (never mind that lunch was less than an hour ago), a nine year old who has been asked to pick up her stuff off the floor, but is now crying because she's 'too tired' to do it, and an 11 year old who is having a temper tantrum and calling her grandma to 'tattle' on you, it sometimes gets to be too much and a mama can just 'snap'. "LEAVE ME ALONE!!!" "EVERYBODY GO TO THEIR ROOMS!!" whatever it is you happen to snap out when you're losing your mind. And you know what? Its one minute out of the day, there are still 1,439 minutes in the day. Minutes where I tell my kids I love them. Minutes where I feed, nurture, answer questions, clean, love my children. Minutes where I apologize for my mistakes, and hope that someday they will understand that I am not perfect. Minutes that I refuse to waste on feeling guilty for getting overwhelmed and saying something I shouldn't have.


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## fierymyst (May 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APMom98*
I am only doing the best that I can do at each particular moment of my day, just like every other mother out there.









I agree!! I do mess up and you know what, I have no problem admitting it to my kids, if I yell and its uncalled for I have no problem apologizing to them and telling them I was wrong. If it was called for then we discuss that too. I think its important that you let your kids know you aren't perfect and don't know everything!


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calicokatt*
there are still 1,439 minutes in the day. Minutes where I tell my kids I love them. Minutes where I feed, nurture, answer questions, clean, love my children. Minutes where I apologize for my mistakes, and hope that someday they will understand that I am not perfect. Minutes that I refuse to waste on feeling guilty for getting overwhelmed and saying something I shouldn't have.









Exactly


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

nickirj, I have to say, your post was wonderful! You said so many things that I wanted to say but just couldn't get my brain to function enough to be coherent about it.









Thank you for hearing me.


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## Nickarolaberry (Dec 24, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pandora114*
I say it as a joke when DD isn't around because my goodness she just







all the time and honestly there are times that I wouldn't mind her being quiet for just a FEW minutes while I read a recipe that i picked out for dinner.

That and she's SO Full of energy she's like a bull in a china shop at times...

I dont tell her to "sit down and shut up" but when she *does* get to that point with me. than I gently tell her mommy needs her to settle down for just a few minutes so she doesn't mess up dinner and make it yucky.









Of course, everyone has different limitus tests IRT patience. Mine..I'm one that enjoys her silence and solitude...and with a child who's tongue is hinged in the middle and flaps at both ends...my patience is well tested...

Pandora, do we have the same daughter?







My dd1 is a nonstop talker. Even in her sleep! In so many ways she is very like me -- intense, sensitive, emotional, very affectionate. In others, she is so different -- she is definitely an extrovert and I'm more of an introvert. I get really physically uncomfortable from auditory overstimulation. I don't like crowds, I don't like loud noises, and after a while the nonstop talking gets to me. I need to retreat and have silent time and she will follow me into the bathroom, the shower, talk at me when I'm on the phone....blahdeblahdeblahdeblah.

But I would *never* tell her to shut up, never. We don't use that language in our house. I have asked her to please leave me alone and give me a few minutes' peace (to little effect, I must say) and a few times I have locked myself in the bathroom so I could attend to my business in private for a spare minute, but that's it.

On the other hand, she really comes up with some interesting insights and questions, and she is a pretty nifty person to talk with.


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## robl (May 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APMom98*
Edited to remove deleted post

1) That is a second ad hominem comment. It is a counter example of "When I knew better, I did better".

2) FYI, I was posting in discussion boards when modems were still in their cradle. (I don't need my decades of online posting experience to notice the tired pattern where: One side might feel justified in harsh and defensively agressive posting because they feel that their belief system is the victum of being unfairly judged. Another side might feel they commented disagreement with someone devoid of judgemental comments and found themselves in the battle of their life trying to avoid being the victum of something that resembles a low level persecution complex. I've been both sides before. It's not new.)

On to other logical points of interest to me. YES there are _at least_ two sides to each perspective (false dichotomies are a pet peeve):

3) Walking a mile in someone elses shoes works both ways. If someone has a baby and an injury you cannot know if that is more or less work/stress than having 3 babies - unless you had the same situation prior to your other two kids. For instance, I'd take raising 3 kids over raising 1 with an arrow sticking out of my head (please pretend that I found an emoticon for that and inserted it here).

I know this is outside of the topic at hand, but since my motivations for posting were questioned, it's only fair to answer. I'm interested in this thread because I find I cannot relate to many other parents who seem to love teasing their kids in a very similar way that I used to tease my peers in 7th and 8th grade. My son is not my peer. (And I wasn't very respectful back then.) I won't join in picking on children to fit-in with what seems like almost everyone else I know. I'd rather not feel accepted by pretty much everyone I know on this point than make fun of my son one time. My not being injured, and only having 1 child doesn't invalidate my belief system. I don't like seeing other people who I agree with on this point taking all sorts of nonsense about this point of view.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APMom98*
Edited to remove deleted post.

Uhh, who's telling you what you may and may not do? Show me one instance of that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APMom98*
Edited to remove deleted post.

The only "holier-than-thou" attitude I see is this elitist nonsense about mothers of only-children. The only judgements I see are are the wild assumptions about my level of difficulty in parenting. You don't know anything about my life.

I just disagree with you. Get over it.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Please, anyone, help me understand what this topic has at all to do with kids thinking they run everything?

Does anyone here really think that it's either kids running around wild and driving everyone crazy, or their parents calling them names - even in private?

Why can't we be overwhelmed, frustrated, at the end of our ropes, and still... talk about it in _actual_ terms without demeaning the kids?

WTF?







:

It doesn't make me a parenting lightweight because I've never partaken in calling my child names. I think the _*judgements*_ here to that effect are not only out of line, but ironic and telling.


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## Heffernhyphen (May 3, 2005)

While I do let a potty word or two fly from time to time, I have managed to refrain from telling DS to shut up. I'm not sure why that phrase is so unpleasant, but it just feels too ugly to say. I have, however, sarcastically offered him a nice cold glass of hush-yo-mouth, but that's just to entertain my own self when need be.

That said, I've begun to think that the energy one expends gently and politically correctly phrasing every comment that comes out one's mouth could be better spent. I was at a park recently with a VERY GD kinda mom. When my boy did something he shouldn't have and I spat out a hasty, "Go to time out!" I felt so mean in comparison to her. She would have gently explained why he shouldn't have done what he did and then lovingly helped him find a better activity. I wished I could react more like that. But it's just not how I work.

Later in the day she admitted that she has had to lock the kids out of the house because she can't trust herself in their presence another minute. I've never been there. Not even close.

So, the epiphany I had that day was that maybe little harmless vents throughout the day prevent meltdowns later on.


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

*


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## CrazyRED (Mar 18, 2005)

I'm better than this


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

*


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APMom98*
Edited to remove deleted post.

Please do show me this high-horse, and where I indicated that I have all the answers.

And if you don't mind, throw in an example where I "critique [your parenting] at will". And good lord, show me this attack you speak of...

This is a discussion forum, no? I get to post what I think, no? Even if you aren't comfortable with my opinions, no?

Can newbies now not contribute if _you_ don't like their opinions?

Boy, I'm dyin' to hear how this works...

I don't see you logically debating down my points, only insulting my character and status as a parent. Please explain why?

.


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## CrazyRED (Mar 18, 2005)

I'm better than this


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CrazyRED*
What exactly do you mean by this? I hope that you aren't implying what it sounds like it is implying. Honest question.

What that means is that it's rediculous to make wild assumptions about my parenting stress, hardship, ability, attitude, or depth based on whether or not I have insulted my kid to his face or behind it.

As it seems to be rather overtly implied here that I just can't possibly understand stress or I certainly would have joined in the child-bashing fun at least on occasion.

Not thinking that way is not an indicator of how "real" a parent is or how much stress they experience, nor is their number of children.

.


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## CrazyRED (Mar 18, 2005)

I'm better than this


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Incidentally, CrazyRED, this was my full quote:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aira*
It doesn't make me a parenting lightweight because I've never partaken in calling my child names. I think the judgements here to that effect are not only out of line, but ironic and telling.


Why did you say this:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CrazyRED*

Quote:

I think the judgements here to that effect are not only out of line, but ironic and telling.
Out of line, yes. Ironic, perhaps. Telling, I dunno, you tell me.

If you didn't understand the antecedent phrase per your post here:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CrazyRED*

Quote:

It doesn't make me a parenting lightweight because I've never partaken in calling my child names.
What exactly do you mean by this? I hope that you aren't implying what it sounds like it is implying. Honest question.


'Nother honest question.


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## CrazyRED (Mar 18, 2005)

Quote:

Out of line, yes. Ironic, perhaps. Telling, I dunno, you tell me
.

This was sarcasm, pure and simple.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Ahh.

So you felt it was appropriate to be sarcastic about something you admittedly didn't understand?

Cool.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

G'Night all... I'm off to bed.

I'll hope this thread somehow resurrects into a productive discussion tomorrow.

*sigh*


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## CrazyRED (Mar 18, 2005)

I'm better than this


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

OK, I'm a sport. I'll quote yet again what _you_ said here:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CrazyRED*
*What exactly do you mean by this?* I hope that you aren't implying what it sounds like it is implying. *Honest question.*


ASSumption? No, your words. Does it make me feel better? Couldn't care less.

OK, really G'Night now...


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aira*
I believe that saying those things and calling it venting can be seen from several angles. For example, that giving voice to those ideas that our kids are spoiled or bratty - even "joking" - causes them to seep into our thinking. I don't even think it's an effective catharsis as actually voicing our needs that are lacking is.

It has always been my experience that we become the mind that we practice.

Whether there is a kernel already there that makes a parent say those things, or the voicing of them as "jokes" brings it into one's thinking, there is no good that can come of it - especially when it would be remarkably easier to just complain about whatever the real issue is.

I agree. I've have found myself doing this sort of demeaning talk recently. For me, it's part of "people pleasing"--my child is clearly intense and spirited, I try not to threaten or punish, and sometimes I feel this pressure when I'm with others, so I'll make some disparaging comment about how my kid "never stops talking" and roll my eyes.

It started to feel really crappy and disrespectful, so I've made an effort to stop doing it. It's so *my* issue that I'm using my kid for.

And I totally agree that "mood follows action."

My kid does talk a LOT. And I often wish for a break from that. But if I can re-frame that trait into something positive, it can make a big difference in how I treat him. _The Spirited Child_ talks extensively about this re-framing.


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## lilylove (Apr 10, 2003)

Please keep the UA in mind while posting, particularly this:

Quote:

# Posting in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, namecalling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.
Please remember that we are all mamas who are trying to find the best path for ourselves and our families. Let's be gentle with each other.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *monkey's mom*
I agree. I've have found myself doing this sort of demeaning talk recently. For me, it's part of "people pleasing"--my child is clearly intense and spirited, I try not to threaten or punish, and sometimes I feel this pressure when I'm with others, so I'll make some disparaging comment about how my kid "never stops talking" and roll my eyes.

It started to feel really crappy and disrespectful, so I've made an effort to stop doing it. It's so *my* issue that I'm using my kid for.

And I totally agree that "mood follows action."

My kid does talk a LOT. And I often wish for a break from that. But if I can re-frame that trait into something positive, it can make a big difference in how I treat him. _The Spirited Child_ talks extensively about this re-framing.

I felt this several years ago about DH.

As usually happens in a group of females, the talk turns to complaining about the menfolk. One day I was listening to the bashing going around the circle in turns, and when it was my turn (we all know the unspoken order of these things...) I just felt like it was so dishonest. So I just didn't.

And I gave it a tremendous amount of thought. I realized that it's not something I can ever do again. If I don't mean it, I try not to say it.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

There seems to be quite a bit of adversarial posting going on in this thread. I would like to request that anyone who has posted anything that could be perceived as unkind, rude, sarcastic and/or baiting, etc. PLEASE consider editing so that this thread can remain on the board. If you choose not to edit, any posts of this nature will be removed and moderator alerts will be issued.

If you have an issue with someone personally, that doesn't relate to the OP's topic, please take it to PM. lilylove and I do our best to ensure a welcoming atmosphere around here. Can we all do our part to maintain the forum's integrity? If your personal answer is no, please refrain from posting. Disagreements are fine, personal attacks are not. Please PM me or lilylove if you have any questions or concerns.

Please also remember the post report button if you see a post that doesn't feel right to you rather than responding to the post itself. It's the little white, black and red triangle at the lower left side of each post. Thanks so much for your cooperation!


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

I have removed all my posts. I have no energy for this.


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