# 3 years



## Tan II

I am in between dates. In between the date my baby boy was born, and the day he died. He would have been 3 this year. Hard to imagine, and hard to picture.

He was born at 30 weeks. Being prem, and having health issues, he stayed at the Royal Children's Hospital for the 3 months of his life.
He had good days, he had bad days, he had we're not sure days, he fought as hard as he could.

Then one day the doctors sat us down and said "he's not going to survive". I felt like someone had dropped a building on my head.
THe next day we took him off the ventilator, and held him as he died peacefully in our arms.
We knew that the doctors had done all they could. To keep him on morfene, and have a machine breathe for him - knowing we would only get a few more days with him just didn't seem right. To have him suffering to keep him with us for only a few days more seemed selfish.
It wasn't a hard decision to make. As a parent you always do what is best for your child. We knew he was suffering, and letting him go was the best decision for him. (Not for us, but for him).

3 years gone, and there are still days I cannot believe what we went through as a family.
I'd like to believe that I am a stronger, better person for it. I have to try and take something positive away from this painful experience.

I had another baby last year. It will be his 1st birthday in 3 weeks time
What a joy he is.

Although I find people think because I have had another child - everything is ok now. That all my pain is gone. I don't think that's fair. One child does not replace another.

Time does heal, and we do move forward. We still remember. And he is still very much part of our family.
When you ask my 7 year old how many brothers do you have? He will say 2. I am very proud of him.


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## lolalapcat

Tan--I'm so sorry for the loss of your son. It sounds like he had a strong spirit, which he must have gotten from you!

I know a woman who always, when asked how many children she has, says "one in heaven and 2 on earth". Then she always goes right on talking, so people don't have to stand there, not quite knowing what to say. But she always acknowledges her son.

And your middle son surely changed your life, and hopefully you can see the positive in the experience, and not just the hurt. How much more precious are your 2 living sons, now that you've gone through this experience? Life may be bittersweet since the loss, but maybe that can make the good times all that much sweeter. Just look at what you now know about yourself, that you didn't know before you had your second son.

Thinking of you during this time of reflection.


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## coralsmom

tan II,
i am so sorry you lost your son. thank you for sharing his story. much love to you.


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## AllyRae

: Happy birthday sweet boy...

Love and peace to you mama...


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## bluebird68

Dear Tan, Thank you so much for sharing your powerful story. I am so sorry for the loss of your beautiful boy, and am sure he is in your heart and his presence in your lives every day. I can appreciate about how you have become a stronger person because of your loss, and at the same time, I always wish there were a different way to get those same character traits built up! I can imagine that watching your second son grow and develop into his own unique being is an amazing process, as well as a mixed one, as you think of all the stages that your firstborn would have experienced. You are so right in that another child in no way replaces your first, and makes everything ok. I will be sending many positive, healing, comforting thoughts your way, as well as to your whole family....
Hugs and peace to you, Mama... Michelle


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## Tan II

Hi Michelle

Thank you for your kind, warm words of support. I find that even though people want to be supportive, they don't know what to say. So they say nothing. Which is then very hard to open up. And lonely. So thanks.
THere are days I look at my baby and think how lucky I am to have him. It is so easy to take everything for granted - falling pregnant, carrying a child, giving birth and then having a healthy baby.

I find that I have become nurotic about silly things. But obviously things that are huge to me.


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## Tan II

Hi Lolalapcat
Thanks for your kind words. I haven't felt ready to join a support group until now ( and this wasn't on purpose). Now I wonder why not !
It is so hard to talk to someone who hasn't (luckily) lost a child. As much as they try and understand, they can't. So I have given up trying to explain how I feel and been "fine" to those that ask.

When people ask me how many children do I have, I sometimes find it hard to answer. Sometimes it is easier to just say 2.
If I am feeling a little bit braver, then I say 3, but my second child past away.
For me, I find that it is important to acknowledge Gabriel. I can't not. He's still my child, even though he's not with us.

My 7 yr old on the other hand has no problem !! When asked, he'll say. I've got 2 brothers, but my one brother died. A little tactless for the poor person that has asked !! But that's kids for you.

Life is bittersweet. I have certainly learnt about myself and people.

2 weeks before Gabriel died, my mother died. So I was very numb from all my pain for a very long time.

Each day/week/month/year it gets easier. I can either sink or swim. I have chosen to swim.


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## lolalapcat

Tan--

I'm glad you are finding some support here. I avoided joining for a long time too...I spend so much time not talking about my miscarriages (no one stops a conversation like we can!). But it's a relief to acknowledge the pain and loss.

You are correct, that most people want to hear that you are okay, when you may never really be 'okay' again. Not that your pain won't recede, but your whole self--mind, soul and body--changes when you undergo such loss.

I can't imagine the grief of losing your Mother and Gabriel in such a short amount of time. That is a cruel twist of fate. No wonder the anniversary dates are hard on you! I'm so sorry that had to happen to you.

Your oldest son sounds like a gem! Tactless, perhaps. Honest, definitely. I know the knowledge of the death of your Gabriel makes people uncomfortable, but that is life.

And it is amazing, at least for me, how many people have experienced similar losses, but never talk about it, until we mention ours. (Primarily my husband at work, I talk about it less).

Even without talking about our losses, people seem to gravitate to me to tell me about theirs...in particular, 2 male customers where I work (it is a male-dominated industry) voluntarily told me about the passing of their infant grandsons. I certainly don't talk about my miscarriages with customers...all I can figure is that people who have experienced great loss are attracted to others who have known the same pain. Kindred souls, we have become.

I guess the whole point of the long ramble is, you are not alone.

Do your carry something with you, so part of Gabriel is with you all the time? A locket, pendant, ring, keyring...

Keep swimming, Tan! Even if somedays it's just dog-paddling, you have made the right choice. I'm keeping you in my thoughts.

Keri


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## taradt

Mama

you are so right that having another child doesn't make everything suddenly better, it really is a peeve of mine that most people seem to think it does.

thank you for sharing your sweet fighter boy with us, I hope these days are peaceful for you as you remember your son's short life

tara


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## Ben's Mommy

Tan ~







's to you mama. You are so strong to carry on and remember your beautiful son with such passion. Three years ago, but I'm sure it seems like yesterday.


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## Tan II

Hi Keri. I know what you mean about people wanting to share their stories. I think it is because you can sincerely understand pain. You are able to give comfort and support knowing what it's like to receive it.
Does that make any sense? It's easy to offer words of comfort and support. To really mean them is another thing.
Not to say you have to have a loss to be sincere.

It's easier to talk to someone who knows where you are coming from.

I don't have something of Gabriel's with me. I have a special box where I keep his photo's, birth announcement, toys etc. I don't display any pics of him. My husband isn't ready for that. And honestly, I feel that that part of my life is private. Not up for display. Besides, I don't really have any pics of him without any tubes, drips or ventilator in him.

I have cropped a photo of his hand which I have made black and white. I want to put it in a frame with the 2 boys. So it might not be his face, but it will represent him and his memory.


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## lolalapcat

Tan--I understand what you mean. People who have had a loss of a child also lose innocence, hope, joy. It's nice when someone else understands what you are going through, even if the experiences aren't quite the same.

I also understand about not wanting to put pain on public display. After 2 miscarriages, my parents and brother told a lot of people when I was pregnant the 3rd time. Stupid people. It really made me mad, since I know what can happen, and they should have too. So when I miscarried the third baby, it was worse, knowing how many people knew--like walking around naked.

Sometimes I want to shout it from the hills, because you and I both know people who have lost children or had miscarriages, who never ever talk about it. But most the time I just want to hide the experiences away, which we both know is impossible.

Your poor husband is in so much pain too. I hope he has an outlet too, someone or somewhere.

Maybe someday when you are both ready, you could have a photo of Gabriel edited. Perhaps a photo of him, without all the hospital trappings, would be less difficult to look at. Just an idea, not trying to convince you to display anything.

I hope each passing day gets a little easier for you!

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Keri.People don't realise how insensitive they are at times. Like your parents and brother. They were probably so excited about your pregnancy, not stopping to think that it's a scary and sensitive subject for you.

As u pointed out, those who haven't had a loss don't have that understanding. U would think that it doesn't take much to realise what is a sensitive subject and what isn't.

U can't believe some of the stupid comments I got after Gabriel died. Thankfully I have forgotten most of them. I know they were hurtful because people were so stupid. One very good friend said to me after 3 months "so, are u okay now?" *shrug*.

I can relate to wanting to shout it from the hills. I have those days too where I want to let everyone know the pain we went through. There are other times I don't want to share any of our experience - it's too private to share like trivial bits of info.

We live and learn about people!

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan--so you're okay now, right? Wow.

I know people really want us to be okay, so they don't have to try to figure out what to say. But I'm pretty sure 'okay' is a thing of the past, at least the way we used to be.

Yesterday I had a lot of fun, but I also gave in to a big crying jag when I was finally alone. So that is my new 'okay', when I don't cry throughout the entire day. Nobody knows that, though.

Hang in there...I'm guessing you have more rough days coming up, with anniversaries. I'll be thinking of you.

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

People do want u to be ok. It makes them feel better. When I was having a really bad day, and just wanted to be left alone. I would make sure I looked good. I found that if I looked ok (hair, make-up etc), then people assumed that I was ok. So between u and me, the better I looked, the worse day I was having and the the more pain I was in.

Doesn't it drive u mad how people expect you to share your deepest feelings. Like you are discussing a movie or something. My sister-in-law often used to say to me "you're so private. You never tell me how u r feeling". I felt like replying "becasue u listen with half an ear. Don't ask if you can't take the time to really listen".

Thanks for your thoughts.

I hope you are feeling ok too. It's good to cry. It cleanses the soul, so I've been told. Mine must be spotless !
I'm glad you had a fun day. Eventually you'll have more fun days than crying days. And when you do, don't feel bad for it.
All in good time.

I hope you have a good day.

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan--I just posted something on balancing joy and grief, and it made me think of you, with baby 3's birthday coming up, while you have all the sad anniversaries going on. Still thinking of you!

Keri


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## gretasmommy

Thanks you for sharing with this group. I am a new "member" here, and have found great comfort even just lurking. Not yet ready to move on . . .

it is intensely private, and when you feel ready - along with your husband- to share more with others, you will.

As far as being okay . . well, I guess it's a different kind of okay.

Wishing you peace.


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

Thank you for thinking of me. I don't feel like I really have anyone to give me a bit of comfort. Not because I don't have anyone around - I have plenty family and friends. They just don't knwo what to do or how to give me comfort.

At the end of the day I just want a hug and a place to feel "safe" to express how I feel. Not to be judged, felt sorry for, empty words or "I know how you feel" .
I find that there isn't anyone who really feels comfortable with my pain, so they either stay away or pretend it's not there.
My husband tries very hard.

I have to admit though, that I am a great con artist ! What I mean is that I put on a great show. To look at me, you would think I was fine. Dealing with everything in my own way and doing ok.

The reality is that I don't feel as fine as I look. So I suppose I can't really blame people for not being as supportive as I would like them to be, because they don't know that I need it.

Catch 22 situation. I don't want you to feel sorry for me, but at the same time I need some TLC.

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan--

I know the feeling, of needing some tlc, but not pity. This whole experience has made me feel so much stronger in some ways, I know I can endure. But sometimes I feel so fragile, so scarred and vulnerable. It is a strange combination.

This is why we post here, isn't it? We can't really talk openly about the pain, but it isn't going away, and if we don't have some sort of release we'll explode...

I've thought about going to my hospital's baby/pregnancy loss support group, but can't quite make myself. They are having a memorial balloon release thing in a couple of weeks, and I don't think I can do that either. I know it would help, but it's so public.

Sometimes when I feel alone, I think of my ancestors. My Mom's great grandparents buried 1 baby and 1 child in a cemetery in the middle of nowhere, and then moved away. My Mom and Aunt and their cousin and uncle and I all visit those babies, and put a new stone on their graves ("budded on earth to bloom in heaven", the stone says). It helps me to know we still honor their lives and their loss. And my Dad's great grandparents lost their first 4 children...the pain they endured, it must have been nearly unbearable. But they went on to have more children, knowing what they could lose, and I am here because of their bravery in the face of great loss.

Anyway, they are kindred spirits. I am not alone. Neither are you.

Would your family and friends join you to mark Gabriel's birth and passing? You do all your mourning in private, maybe something like that would let them know that your pain does not go away, just as your need for their support doesn't either. Of course, I am suggesting you do something that I haven't, so take it with a grain of salt.

Being a good con artist is part of this whole thing, isn't it? We suffer alone so others don't have to suffer with us. Do we need some sort of permission to stop suffering? How do we get beyond this? Is it even possible?

One of the threads here lists different resources for people in our shoes. I think I'm going to start getting some different books, to see if they can lend comfort. A little courage wouldn't hurt me either.

Is there anything I can do to provide you with some comfort?

Thanks for talking and letting me talk back. This does help.

Keri

PS Gretasmommy, lurk away! Whatever helps.


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## Tan II

Hi Keri
I agree with your combination of feelings. I definitely feel stronger too. I was saying the other day, that it's almost an arrogant feeling. I feel like no-one can hurt me in anyway. After the pain I have gone through, no-one can do anything worse to hurt me. Make sense? Yet something so small can "hit a nerve".

I was never able to join the support group at Gabriel's hospital. They run a support group for the parents who have lost children. I wasn't ready to share such private personal feelings with a group of strangers. To get up in a crowd of people and bare my soul.
It's easy to do it here, you get to hide behind your computer !

THis year we released balloons on Gabriel's b-day. My eldest son wrote a message on the one balloon to him. It was nice to be able to "do" something.

We normally celebrate Gabriel's b-day. I let my son decide what he wants to do that is fun to celebrate. THis year he wanted to play laser games (he's 7). So off we all went. The games were played, fun was had. In the back of all our minds we knew this was for Gabriel.
Some think it's mad, but why not celebrate his life, even if it was so short.

It is important in our family to keep his memory alive, and part of our family.

I don't really want family and friends to share our family tradition of celebrating his birth. All I want is for them to acknowledge the day.

Even the day he died. I don't expect/ want them to come to the cemetary with us. I just want a phone call/ sms to say "thinking of you". So I know they haven't forgotten the day.
I want to be left alone on those days, but know that it hasn't been forgotten.

I don't expect friends to remember the dates (although my good friends do). I DO expect the family to remember both dates. Especially the day he died they were with us at the hospital. For them to have shared such an intimate experience .....

On milestone birthdays in years to come, I would like to do a balloon release with the whole family. Just as if we would have celebrated all together.

The comfort you provide me, is allowing me to express how I feel. Without feeling judged. Thank you.
I hope I can do the same for u.

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan--

It's nice to talk again! I couldn't access the board for a couple of days, and it was starting to make me cranky.

You exactly get it, the dual invincibly strong/delicately fragile feeling. It's the closest I've come to understanding manic depression, flipping from one feeling into the next. I can take anything, just give me a minute to break down first.

The balloon release on Gabriel's birthday sounds beautiful. I can understand wanting to keep it private, but wanting some acknowledgment, so I really hope your friends and family follow through with remembering Gabriel with you. It must really be good for your eldest son to help you commemorate his brother's life. Such a hard life lesson, and he's such a little guy.

So who are the people who go to the support groups, anyway? You nailed it, it is safe to hide behind the computer. I couldn't speak out loud what I can type.

And talk away, there is no judgment here. I'm glad you are finding comfort in sharing what is going on in your head.

I get some sweet release in not having to think about all this stuff alone. It's a community of people who understand. The burden gets too big if you don't unload once in a while.

What I could use is some courage right now. I can't even pick up the phone and call the new clinic we are going to start going to. If I make the phone call, then we are back on the road to trying to get pregnant again, and I'm just not ready for that yet. But I just had a birthday, 37, yuck. So time is what I need, but the more I postpone, the more it works against me. So now I'm the stupid lion in the Wizard of Oz. My brain knows what it needs to do, but my heart just can't take it.

But tomorrow is a new day, I'll stop dreaming of running away and get back on task. Don't you miss life before grief? Because running away couldn't even fix this. It's just my little fantasy, that I could go away somewhere where everything would be all right again.

Okay, enough of that self indulgence. My life really isn't all that bad, sometimes I even think it's pretty good.

Well, take care. I'll let you know if I find any good books on grief...I'm going to peruse the self help section at Barnes and Noble, probably next weekend.

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I wondered where you were !

Happy birthday. I hope you had a good day. I know those dates are hard.

Wow, thinking of getting pregnant. So exciting and so scary.
Take each day as it comes. Don't put pressure on yourself. When you have made the decision, take a deep breath and make the jump.
PG it all works out for you.
It's scary. You're not a stupid lion. Just one that has been hurt, and is protecting herself. I think u r brave to be taking the step.

I sure do miss my carefree life before grief. No sad, heavy feeling. No subject that touched sensitive nerves. No feeling like I need a hug.

I agree with your comment about life not being that bad. After all the trauma I went through, I have to say that my life isn't too bad either. Sure I have bad days, but I have plenty good days too.I am a different person since Gabriel's death. How could I not be. But I am still okay.
I realise how lucky I am. I have an amazing husband and 2 special boys.
Some days I feel so lucky, it hurts. Some days I could run away ! Some days I just go shopping !!!
It's okay to feel sorry for yourself now and then. Who else will !

Btw, if you see any postings from grooveemom, that's me ! I've landed up with 2 login names !

Good luck book shopping.

Hugs
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan--

I tried to post already, but it disappeared...do you think that's a sign? Anyway, you get the edited, less-wordy edition now!

So you ARE grooveemom--I wondered, because the name 'Gabriel' is not very common. So it's Jamie, Gabriel and what is your eldest son's name, if you don't mind sharing?

Thanks for letting me rave a bit. That was a bad day, when even the littlest thing seems like too much effort. I'm planning on a good day today, wish me luck!

I believe I have developed a full blown doctor aversion. In addition to calling the new clinic, I have been avoiding calling my regular doc for refills on meds, my dentist for a regular appt, my optometrist to get new contacts...maybe it's an appointment aversion, I hope it's not a phone aversion! I'm going to make at least 1 call today, maybe that will get the ball rolling.

And I hope I didn't make you feel like you needed to acknowledge the good things in your life---I know they are there. This is just where we come to talk about the things no one else can with us, where we get out the darker stuff in our souls so it doesn't way us down.

It's all the circle of life, sorry if the Elton John song is now going through your head. Part of my maudlin sentimentality is coming from other anniversaries, as 2001 was a long year of loss for DH and me (no one from 9-11, that was a
tragic coincidence.) So this whole year has been a long reminder of the life/death balance. Were we just naive before, not realizing the true nature of life? It seems like it didn't fully dawn on me until my 30's, how death is such a part of life. I sometimes want that innocence back, but sometimes I think of how stupid I was not to understand life better.

Blah blah. The ramblings of a madwoman!

Thanks for the birthday wishes. I never have minded them before, always enjoyed the excuse for getting together with friends and family. This one was a sort of death knell, the chiming of the church bells....the first birthday I didn't want to celebrate. I'm still irritated by it, hope it doesn't last all year!

Must get on with the day. Hope yours is a good one!

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I had to repost yesterday's reply 3 times !! Must have been something wrong.

My eldest son is Tayga. A different and unique name, appropriate for him !

Doc aversion. Hhhmmm.... I had that too ! I landed up going to the dentist 2 years after Gabriel died.
It happens. If u don't go, you'll have no medicine, no contacts and your teeth will fall out (ok only joking about that one !!).

By acknowledging the good in my life, I wanted to show you that even after a trauma, things can be ok. You might be a different person, but it can be "ok" again.
Those dark days are revolting. I hate them. Sometimes it's easy to climb out of the dark pit you're in, and other days it's a bit harder. I still get them. Not as often anymore.

I think we were all naive before. Maybe innocent, unaware. We never had to think about or experience pain and grief so why think about it?
Some people never think about it or experience it until they are well into their 60's. Some of us experience it a LOT younger.

I don't think it's stupidity not understanding life / death. It's where you are, what experiences you have had, what you have learnt from it.....

One of the things I take away from my losses, is that I appreciate what I have more. My life, my husband, my children, having fun, being together. Some days you forget that,when the normal aggravations of life get to you.

I think your perception and understanding of life changes as you get older and experience more. Poor me, I'm not even that old.I'm only 33.

I hope you have a better day.

Chat soon.
Tan


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## Tan II

Have you read the poem on loss I posted ?

It explains things so well.


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## lolalapcat

Hi, Tan!

Yes, I read the poem, it makes tremendous sense of things. I read almost everything on this thread.

I like the name Tayga---never heard of it before. As much as I enjoy classic names, I have a great appreciation for unique ones. No confusion, being the only one with that name!

The past couple of days have not been easier or better, despite my wish. Pregnant people and new baby announcements are my plague. As much as I would like to rise above it, the ease with which other people cruise through life can really spark some ugly emotions in me. Is it really asking so much for all the stereotypically happy people to just stay away from me?

Sigh. Sanity regained, of course that is asking too much. But two days in a row? It's like I was really bad in a former life.

(This does not mean I don't want people on this thread to talk about their children---that gives me hope, and I really do want all people to have joy, particularly those who know great loss.)

On the upside, I have addressed my doctor aversion, and accomplished most tasks on my list. It is a step in the right direction, I guess.

So does going through all of this at a younger age make life easier for us later on, when loss occurs at a faster rate? Or will we become calloused? The biggest thing I notice is just about anything can make me cry. Other peoples' pain might as well be mine, as intensely as I feel it, or as intensely as I identify with it. I'd like some emotional callouses about now.

Something I have noticed about posting on this board is I think about all of my personal loss more. I think it's as though I have been granted permission to acknowledge it, instead of stuffing it way down inside.

For a few days I thought maybe this was stirring things up, and I should give up my little board addiction. But now I think it may actually be helping, since I haven't done much processing after the last miscarriage. I had to go on a 2 week long business trip, 2 weeks after the m/c. And that fell on the anniversary of our first m/c, so I felt really alone, and like a crummy wife for abandoning my DH during that time. And when I got back, everyone acted like nothing had ever happened, including me.

Moral of the story? Thanks for listening, and conversing, as this board is really helping me process things. I may have spontaneously combusted if this typing wasn't taking place.

So where are you at now, Tan? As the posts have progressed you seem to be in a better place. But that may be you being a con artist, as you confessed to earlier....and I have called on you for some support, instead of letting you just lean. I don't want to take that away from you, since I know that this time may be really difficult for you.

Take care, and enjoy some of this pretty autumn weather with your boys!

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I didn't realise that it is that obvious that I am feeling better. I am in a better place compared to when I forst posted. I agree with you. Posting here is an outlet. Where you can really say how you feel with having to make excuses.
I could be feeling better, but am not as bad as what I was.

I'm trying to make myself to get out of this rut I am in. It's so easy to stay in this rut. I don't want to anymore. Easier said than done though.

Isn't it amazing how all of a sudden pregnant woman are all around and in your face. I found that too. Your time will come.
I know that it is hard to see a pregnant woman and not feel "why isn't it me?". I was like that until I fell pregnant with Jamie.
It's ok to feel that way.

I still actually feel a pang of sadness when I see a pregnant woman. Silly hey.

Well done for getting through your doctor aversion !!

I don't know if having all these losses at a younger age is better or worse. Hopefully all my losses are over for a loooong time. And that what ever lesson I was meant to learn, I have learnt.
I can only say that I am a more compassionate person for it, and more aware of other people's feeling when they are going through a hard time.
I'm sure I was like that before I had all my losses. I'm just more in tough I suppose.

Maybe it's a good thing that you are facing how you feel now. Better than keeping it to yourself and exploding. Says me. The CHAMPION of bottling things up !

I can say that talking about what happened and how you feel, does somehow make you feel better. It's like unloading, and getting rid of all those yucky feelings in your heart. Making space for good things !

I'm glad that I can listen. I hope I can help. We call on each other for support when we need it.

I know that I am hiding how I feel at the moment. Easier to deal with it. I'll deal with it in small pieces at a time. Too hard to breath otherwise.

Btw, I am enjoying spring !! I am all the way over in Melbourne, Australia !

Have a great weekend.
Tan


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## Tan II

I feel terrible for saying "your time will come". I meant it to be supportive and not empty words.

I suppose what I meant to say is that I hope your time will come.

(Am I putting my foot deeper in my mouth?)


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## lolalapcat

Tan--

Greetings from Nebraska USA! Something in your posts had tipped me off that you may be from another country, so I'm not too surprised...but it's fun to find out you are from Melbourne! I've met several Australians through work, and all of them have represented your country well.

To avoid repeating myself, I review our posts. It's a pretty noticeable progression, that you have been shedding some despair, and I have been getting gloomier. We're a case study in coping....

And it is a rut! I have been trying to get out of it too. It helps to find ways to laugh, like the act of smiling and laughing releases some sort of happy endorphins. So we watched 2 sitcoms last night, and really did laugh out loud. Sometime maybe I'll find my sense of humor again--can you believe I used to be the funny person in a crowd? Not the life of the party, just the one with witty little comments that make people laugh.

Please share the things that help you get out of the rut!

Yeah, I had just passed over the 'your time will come'. I hear that from people and just think in my head 'what do you know that my high powered doctor doesn't?' It's a perspective thing--you have children, so it seems natural that other women will be able to also. Only my one childless friend, who has had a miscarriage, avoids optimism with me. It didn't offend when you said it, and most people do say something like it, but it is a testament to your compassion that you caught it.

That's why trying to get pregnant is not exciting for me. We get pregnant pretty darn easily, but can't stay that way. So we are gearing up to try again, and a tiny little part of me is hopeful, and the rest of me is bracing for another heart wrenching miscarriage, and the emotional and hormonal nightmare that follows it. I'm starting to feel stupid, willfully continuing on this nasty road, and cruel, since it's becoming a choice to create a baby my body likely will reject.

But if we miscarry again, we hopefully will start looking into adoption. So our time as parents will come, even if my time to give birth to a baby doesn't.

This is why our emotions are going in opposite directions in these posts. You are slowly coming out of a dark place, and I am headed right back in, eyes wide open.

Boy am I steeped in my own pity today!

Something that keeps me going is knowing that a year from now, we will have more answers. We will know if we are on the biological road or the adoption road. Being on either road doesn't solve anything necessarily, since heartbreak can happen either way. But it won't be the same place I am now. In a year, it will be different.

A year from now, all of us will be in a different, hopefully better place. Time doesn't heal all wounds, but it does help. The farther I get from a loss, the more I can put it in perspective.

Greater compassion is also a lesson I have learned through all this. Also greater awareness, and a more careful use of words, as I have learned that little nuances can make a big difference. Our losses have had people coming out of the woodwork to talk about their own losses, so that has been good for them and we feel less alone. (Most of the ones who lost babies or preganancies are oddly my husband's friends and co-workers, so they talked to him). Understanding the truly fragile miracle that childbirth and parenting produce---it's not something people should take for granted, yet so many are blase and unthinking. I guess if I didn't hide my miscarrianges from most people, maybe this message would resonate with other people. We'll see.

Did you know when you boil eggs dry they can explode? I have a mess to clean up! Must set timer, must set timer! It's occurring to me there is a metaphor in this, but I'm just going to let it go.

Sorry for the novel. Let loose some of the small pieces you are dealing with, if you want. Even though I've turned into a talker, you know I will listen! And that will make more space for good stuff...

Enjoy spring! Now I want to plant flowers!

Keri


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## Tan II

G'day Mate !!!

Actually, I'm not an Australian yet !! I am an ex South African living in Australia ! We will be citizens next year march. Boy am I confusing or what !

I'm not sure how I get out of my rut. If I am even out of it. The way you describe yourself being the "funny person in the crowd" is me too. Well, was me. Some days I see some of that person. Not all the time though.
I seem to spend a lot of time on my own, which I don't think is very good. So I try and force myself to make plans. Meet friends for a cup of coffee during the day etc. I am a stay at home mom, and let me say I love it. I think I am so lucky to be able to have the chance to stay at home with Jamie.
Tayga is at school, but I was able to not have to go to work while he was at home too.
So keeping that in mind, I have a lot of time on my hands where I am alone. Most of my friends work. So I have too much time to think. I think that is part of my problem. I don't know how to fix it. I want to be be around people, but I don't. I told DH that I think it's time to find new friends !

My sister is coming to live in Aus next year. I am so excited. We have kids close in age. So life will be different once she's here.

I'm getting sidetracked. Was meant to tell you how I get out of my rut !
I try very hard. Some days it's easy, and some days not.
Some days I socialise and wonder why I don't do it more often, other days I cancel arrangements and stay at home not wanting to be with people.
I don't know what I do to get out of the rut. I'm not out of it yet, trying hard to get a footing to climb out.

I now understand your fear for falling pregnant. It must be so frustrating to be so close, but so far. It's as if you are being teased. I hope I am not sounding casual.
I hope that you are able to go down a happy road soon.

Please keep me posted. I will be thinking of you and keeping my fingers crossed.

A year from now it would be nice to be passing on some baby tips and saying remember what we said a year ago ....

I don't know what words of confort I can give you without sounding like empty words (although it would be very sincere). I hope everything is in your favour. Whatever that may be. Whatever path you go on, I can only believe it's for a reason. Sometimes we never know what that reason is. There has to be a reason. That is what kept me going. Believing that everything, good and bad, that happens in life is for a reason.

I find it's easier to help you and hide how I feel, than to face how I feel. I am feeling better, but still can't shake this heavy black feeling in my heart. It's always there. Makes me a grumpy person sometimes. My family must think I'm a lunatic some days.

Spoke to my doc about it. He says that he should go for counselling again. He doesn't think I need more than that. I don't want to go. That's how I landed up here !! Talking to a therapist, or talking here is the same thing. Right? Just a lot cheaper !

I don't know what to do to get past this.

Always happy to listen. Gave u a novel right back !

Have a good weekend.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan--

A South African, the plot thickens! Your story must be fascinating, I can't even imagine...

Ah, the rut. I so understand needing to be around people, but not. Sometimes the people contact is just what I need, but oftentimes it is complete torture. In particular, I find I resent the people who know about the miscarriages, but do not acknowledge them in any way. But I would probably also resent them bringing up something so private and personal, so there really is no winning. I'm just unable to relax around these people, so I want to hide in my house.

I'm actually still mad at my brother. When my cat got hit by a car, he brought me a lovely plant. When I miscarry his nieces and nephews, he says and does nothing. You're lucky you have a sister, and that she is moving to your continent to keep you company!

This weekend, I'm hiding all weekend long. Although I may put on some music and dance around the house while cleaning, as that can help the mood. Body acts happy, brain follows body's lead...

I will also be cleaning out the spare bedroom, which is tool and insulation storage. It would be a baby's room, but I need some more guest space for my DH's family next month. Just getting the room habitable is a step in a positive direction. I think. We'll see how it goes.

In my defense, I don't even really remember life before the rut, before all this brooding and sullen melancholy. Except it seems like it was effortless.

Hmmm. You may not hide behind my nutso issues. Permission denied. If you intend to use this board as counselor-in-absentia, you must unload some of the heavy stuff, as I have been doing. Get it out!

And I haven't been to a counselor, although I would be an awesome candidate. How is it different from speaking your heart on this board?

Oh yeah, I was going to spend quality time in the self help section at the bookstore, looking for a guidebook that would help us.

Just when you feel you can't find the right words to say to me, and I sometimes struggle with the right ones to say to you, here's some American history to give you company: Abraham Lincoln, president during our Civil War, wrote a letter to a woman who had lost 5 sons in battle. In his letter he said "I feel how weak and fruitless must be any attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming." This, from a man who had lost 2 little sons of his own, and suffered from great depression after the losses. Even the most eloquent people struggle to find the right words. That you try means the world to me.

And you say you don't know how to get past this. I don't know if you do get past it, I think you may have to figure out how to carry it with you.

We will figure it out, somehow.

Thanks for the conversation, Tan!

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I love the way you have summed up being around people. I couldn't have explained it better. You are so right. To be with those who know you, I get irritated with them when they start getting too personal on how I'm doing. Yet, when they don't ask and act like nothing has happened, I get bugged too.

Life before the rut. Hhhmmm.... trying to think ! I laughed more. Didn't get anxious over stupid things.

No hiding.You are strict. Unloading the heavy stuff. You are asking a huge thing. I can't promise. I will try my best. Not because I won't, but because it is buried so deep down that half the time I don't even know what's wrong. Or maybe I do, but denial is a GREAT place !!
I will try to share, it is very hard to. Give me time. It will happen it bits and pieces.

Speaking to a councelor is different to speaking on a board becasue you are one on one with someone. They ask questions to lead/push you to dig within and speak about it.
Sometimes it's comforting to confide in someone face to face and know it's confidential. You can say whatever you want without feeling as if u r being judged. Or need to make excuses why you feel a certain way.
But then you also feel pressurised to talk when it's your appointment, even if u don't feel like it. You know u r paying money for that time, so it's like you better talk !

I find the difference between talking to a counselor or on a board like this, is not much. Somehow I feel more relaxed chatting here. It's easier to hide behind the computer (as we have discussed), therefor be more open and honest. No pressure to talk at a certain time/day - only when u feel like it. ALso comforting talking to people who can relate to how you are feeling. That's probably the most important aspect for me.

That's why I say, what's the real difference between a counselor or chatting here ? It's still about talking and facing one's emotions and getting them out. Right?

I know I'll get past feeling like this. It's the time of year for me. With my 2 major anniversaries coming up (my mom and Gabriel), I can't help feeling sad. It's such a happy sad time for me now. It starts with Gabriel's b-day (sept), then both boys (Aug, Oct). Then my mom's anniversary (early nov). Then Gabriel's (late nov).

I know I can get past it. If I haven't fallen apart by now or gone to a loony bin, then there's hope for me !!

I will not sink - I am swimming !

I had to laugh when I re-read the last posting where I was in such a hurry to type, that I typed that my doc should go for counselling. I'm sure u assumed I was talking about myself !!

I hope you have a good weekend. Be kind to yourself. Happy cleaning ! Did that this afternoon !

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi, Tan!

Sorry I came across like a drill sergeant. Let me rephrase: I truly appreciate you lending me support. To have someone to listen to me rant really eases some of my burden. I hope to provide the same support for you, and do not want my issues to distract from you getting some relief from yours.

And it's about whatever helps, whatever you want to share, whatever you need to get off your chest. I'm not going to push you. It's your choice, it's your pace.

Anniversaries of sad events, or missed happy events, can be beastly hard. I'd offer you suggestions, but I think you know what to do to get through. I'll just keep on listening as you work your way through the happy/sad season. You are not alone, my next few months are littered with happy and sad also. It's certainly not the same depth as your loss, I'm not equating our situations. But I'll be doing a fair share of crying in the car (that's my personal space) before and after I spend good times with family and friends. You are not alone.

If this works as counselling for you, if your pain is being eased, then I don't see a problem with using the board instead of a counselor. Isn't that what most of us are doing here? Perhaps not intentionally. But I do feel like less of a lunatic (your word--love it!) and as though I am facing things instead of hiding them. That's theoretically what counselling would get us...

Oh, I'm so pleased we are on the same page with Other People, they either ignore the most meaningful events in our lives, or they pry into the most personal events in our lives! There is no winning, and I fully recognize it is irrational.

What I take away from it is this: when in doubt, send a note. Don't know what to say, send a note. If some of the People in my life had acknowledged what we lost, without the uncomfortable, in-person conversation, I would be much more comfortable around them. As it is, I kinda think they are heartless cowards. It's a personal issue, I'll work through it.

So here is an offer, you don't have to respond if you don't want to, I won't bring it up again. I would edit a photo of Gabriel for you, to take out some of the hospital trappings. I'm just an amateur, but am good at restoring old photos, or correcting new ones. Just so you'd have a photo to put in a locket or something.

I knew what you meant in your last post, but I really do think most doctors need counseling! (Not my regular doctor, she is heaven-sent).

I'm stealing your metaphor! All week long I've been dog-paddling, today I think I'm swimming!

Keep at it, Tan!

Keri

ps Jealous your house is already clean, mine is a cat/dog hair explosion!


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## Tan II

Hi Keri (Or should I call you Sir !! ha ha !)

Thank you for your support. I appreciate it. I think that there are times one needs to be pushed to share how they are feeling. Not the nosy kind of pushing from annoying people. The gentle "how are u doing" pushing. Sometimes I find that I really do want to open up, but don't know how to start the conversation. So when the kind person u r tlking to "open the door" by asking gentle "how r u" questions, it helps.

So thanks for letting me share without feeling like u r uncomfortable with it all. I think that is why I don't like to unload with sometimes. I find people, doesn't matter how close they are to u, don't know how to deal with all your emotion. They don't know what to say. So it lands up them feeling uncomfortable and awkward. So you then land up conforting them !

The offer is the same from me to you. Unload and share - anytime. I'll listen.

I agree with you about sending a note. An sms is fine too. On my anniversaries, I don't really want the phone call of "how r u today ? U ok ?". What do people want me to say ? I suppose it's that catch 22 situation. U get p-ed off when they do phone, p-ed off when the don't.
An sms saying "thinking of you" or whatever is just perfect. They have acknowledged the day and left me alone.

I should make an instruction manual for some family members (not mine my DH's !) and friends, on how to treat b-days and anniversaries.

Thank you for the offer to do the photo of Gabriel for me. I really appreciate it. I will take you up on it, but not right now. I would love to have a nice pic of him in a locket or something.

As Dori says in Finding Nemo "just keep swimming, just keep swimming" ! You go girl !!

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan--

I believe that is "Sir, yes sir!" Just kidding, I don't want to be the drill sergeant.

So, how are you? Really? (asked gently)

It is not uncomfortable to hear your thoughts and experiences. It helps that I can take my time in responding, just as you can take time to articulate your thoughts. Actual conversation between us wouldn't be this candid, I don't think. Well, maybe it would, but there would be some long pauses!

So what is an 'sms'? From context, it sounds like an email, but I'm not familiar with that abbreviation. Oh, the cultural divide has finally caught up with us!

An instruction manual is such a good idea. "Methods of Supporting Your Loved Ones through Their Loss". Or how about "Ways to Avoid Tipping Your Grief Crazed Lunatic Over the Edge"? We as a society ought to be better at dealing with the loss of babies and pregnancies. It is not that uncommon, as we all now know. I guess it is up to us to lead people along, to tell them what we need. Not that I can actually picture how to do that.

Here's my personal issue that I don't think I will ever tell anyone IRL: I wish someone would acknowledge that I miscarried real babies. One would have been born in February, #2 would have been born last month. I would be 6 months pregnant with #3. Not a single person in my life has said anything about the due dates. I don't think it even occurs to them. The losses resonate through and permeate my life. I think about this, oh, no more than 10 hours out of any given day.

The trajectory of our lives has been forever changed. I feel like a planet, wobbling on my own axis, spinning out of control. But we don't have permission to actually BE out of control. (Insert scream here).

Sometimes it is just so huge, and the minutia of everyday life seems so pointless. But then I just have to stuff it all back inside, feed the cats and vacuum, go to work...

Okay, that comes across kinda scary. But I feel better, getting that out.

Tomorrow, the bookstore, where I hope to find a fabulous follow-these-20 steps-and-your-grief-will-be-cured book, and the bedroom (would be the baby's room if we had a baby) remodel--wish me luck!

Give Tayga and Jamie a hug from your cyber friend! Ah, give yourself one from me too! I promise, I'm not psycho in real life!

Keri

ps Love Finding Nemo! Dori is now our cheerleader!


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I am sitting at the computer having a good giggle !!! It is great to know that there is another deranged lunatic out there !!! (no offence - ha ha).

I think if we were face to face we would have no problem with conversation. We would probably be more careful with our responses.
Having time to respond does help with being more honest and open.

How am I really ....um ... ok I think. It sounds silly that I'm not sure how I am. I do such a good job of hiding how I feel, that I sometimes don't really know how I am ! Seriously, I feel ok today.

I am going to plan ahead for the week. Got Tayga on school holidays now for another week. So I'll be keeping him busy with play dates, going to movies, wild life show on monday etc.
Then sunday is Jamie's 1st b-day. YAY !!!!!! We are having a small party for him in the morning with family and friends. So I need to do a bit of baking and get a few things for the kids.

An sms is a text message on a mobile/cell phone.

I think the second book title is a best seller !!! "Ways to Avoid Tipping Your Grief Crazed Lunatic Over the Edge"? Love the title !

I understand what you are saying about having people acknowledge your babies/pregnancies. It's almost like because there isn't a baby, that he/she never was. Which we know is not the case.

I'm sure you do think about your babies, or the pregnancy you would be having now. How can you not. It's such an important part of who you are.
I think people imagine that it happens, and you move on with your life. Which you do to a degree or as best as you can , but you will always think of your losses.

It bugs me when people who know me talk about me having 2 children. I don't, I have 3. I can't just erase the fact that Gabriel was, because he's not here.

I like the wobbling planet description. Sounds right ! Some days I think I'm going to spin out of control or explode.
I used to feel like "can someone please stop the world turning, I want to get off".

It's true, the house has to cleaned, food cooked, washing done etc. Doesn't matter how yuck u r feeling, you kind of have to have your moment and get on with the usual stuff. The clothes won't wash themselves.

Good luck with your book shopping. I hope you find what you are looking for. See if there are any books on "Replies to give when asked stupid or insensitive questions without bopping the person".

Thanks for the hugs. Sending a big one back to you.
I hope doing the bedroom isn't too hard, maybe even therapeutic (if that's possible).

Btw, you sound much better compared to the past few days. I hope u r feeling it.

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hello again, Tan!

Ah, the board addiction continues.









Yes, I am doing better, my roller coaster is on top of a hill at the moment. A low hill, mind you, but still a hill. I was in my jamas until late afternoon yesterday, and napped a lot. It would look like a depressive state from the outside, but I really just needed some rest. Sometime I'll try to get back into a regular sleep routine, that would help.

You have such a fun week coming up! I want to go to the movies and wildlife show and birthday party too! It's great that you are a stay at home Mom and can do those things with your boys.

And I know exactly what you mean, you aren't quite sure how you are! I'm that way frequently. I'm okay, but not. The surface is okay, the undercurrents are rough.

Today, right now, I am okay. The undercurrents are calm. Not only have I been unloading here, but I talked with the poor husband about things last night. He does know that I have a lot going on in my head, but it still surprises him how much. Sometimes he needs a reminder, I am not a moody shadow of my original self on purpose, I did not choose the road we are on.

Oooh, I want to bop people too! Just check out the "people say the darndest things" thread. My standard responses: 'why would you say that to me?' 'that's such an intrusive question' (followed by silence) or just the long-unblinking-eye-contact thing. Why do people feel so darned compelled to talk about random babies with me? Do they even consider what that makes me think of? The babies that are in my life are fine, I don't want other peoples children to disappear. But if it doesn't HAVE to be brought up, why bring it up? I know I'm hypersensitive, I still want to give the occasional person a smack!

(And really, that's on a day when I am actually okay!)

How could I possibly take offense at being called a deranged lunatic? I should have t-shirts made up that say that, so people know what they are getting into!

Okay, shifting gears:

Tan, I think you need a Mother's ring, if you don't already have one. One with the birthstones of your 3 boys. Or a necklace, same thing. Or stacking rings, with their birthstones channel set. Just something tangible that represents your 3 children. So when dummies talk about your 2 children, you could reach for the piece of jewelry, and think of your 3. Of course, you could bop the person first, IMHO!

I think about memorializing my little unborns, but get stopped up in the details. It seems creepy to pick the 'birthstone' months I miscarried them. And there may be more. Okay, I need to stop this before I upset my 'okay' day.

I am going to plant a bulb garden, with patches of tulips and daffodils and crocus, specific little patches for each of my 3. I need to do SOMETHING (sorry for yelling) and this is a start. Would you like me to plant a patch of flowers for Gabriel, too? If so, pick a types of flowers and colors--I'm thinking purple, pink, white and yellow, any combo. (Anyone who is lurking, I will add flowers for you too, if you want.)

And I think you are right, we would be good at talking face to face. Just look how much we talk here!

Okay, I really must make up for the 'day of sloth' I had yesterday (although the house is clean, and most laundry is done, I never actually have a day of rest!). No more thinking about it, things must get done!

Enjoy Tayga's holiday week, and happy baking!

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

Deranged lunatic t-shirts !! I'm loving it ! My t-shirt can say Psycho ! (That's what DH thinks I am sometimes. I'm not really - well not all the time !).

It's good that you spoke to your DH. At least he can understand how you are feeling and what is gong on in your head. Men think so differently to women. Not to say they don't feel the pain or sadness - it's in a different way of thinking.
How is your DH?

I try and talk to my DH but I find it hard sometimes. Not becasue he won't listen. He is amazing and so supportive. He tries to "fix" the problem. When all I want to do is talk, and have a hug.
Trying to open up and let him know what is going on in my head. Find it hard though to do it. Too scary. Don't want to be so vunerable - even with him. Crazy I know, becasue he's the last person I should feel like that.

I had a necklace made for me after Gabriel died. It has 2 boy figures on it. I haven't worn it since Jamie has been born, or added another figure on. I found it so important to wear. To show to the world that I have (then) 2 boys.
I have seen some gorgeous "mommy tags" and similar things. Where you put the birthdate and names of your children. Will order some.

I was going to say that you should plant rose bushes or flowers etc. What a lovely thing to do. Everytime you walk past them, or look at them, you can have a little thought (not that you need anything to remind you).
I have a friend who lost her baby daughter. She was 17 days old (she had a heart problem). She has planted a rose bush in her garden. She told me that looking after the bush and caring for it, helps work through her pain. It's doing something positive.

Thank you so much for wanting to plant something for Gabriel. That is so kind of you.

Going to have breakfast and get going for the day !
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hello, Tan.

I must restrain my book-writing instinct, as Monday morning requires me to leave my haven and go to work. And I really do have to vacuum this morning, as I do most mornings...

How is my husband? I'm not sure, he doesn't talk about it. I think he is tortured, but in control. He can handle references to the m/c's, and he can handle short conversations. He is like your DH, he wants to 'fix' everything. He could call our next clinic (the one I just can't call), as he thinks maybe they will be able to fix me. He was all for all of the diagnostic testing and outpatient surgery---he actually called it 'troubleshooting'.

I know he compartmentalizes, as he has said as much. My own compartments don't stay shut, everything I'm stifling seeps out into everything else. So I don't understand how it works for him, but it does and that is good.

During our first brief pregnancy, DH was so cute, talking to my tummy, patting it--he had already nicknamed the baby. He hasn't done any of that in the subsequent pregnancies. We have been robbed of the innocent joy of carrying a child. It scares me to death anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter, it's not fun any way we look at it.

If I talk about 'it' too much, DH gets all frustrated, and says maybe we should just stop trying, just be 'us' without kids. I see his point, but that just seems so empty.

Sorry, heavy today. I'm not sure why, yesterday was good. That has nothing to do with today, I know.

Yesterday we got most of the little bedroom cleaned out, and pieces of the beds taken upstairs. (stuff goes to the basement, beds go to the 2nd floor, got lots of exercise!). It really didn't bother me, which is good.

And I bought the loveliest little book, with daily meditations addressing grief. Some of them are not particularly relevant to my losses (which is why I'm going to have to book shop online). But there is a theme of peace and acceptance running through the devotions (yes, I read most of September lastnight). Some of them were speaking directly to us, like the author had been listening in here. Martha Whitmore Hickman, Healing After Loss.

DH was most patient with me at the bookstore. He is probably hoping the book will 'fix' me! It's such a guy thing.

I wonder what your DH thinks, if your hidden thoughts may reflect his thoughts also. When you have been stifling these things for years, how do you ever bring them up? And do you want to tear those wounds open? Do you have to, for your own sanity?

My Lola cat is on my lap right now singing, she seems to know I need some comfort this morning. Wish I could loan her to you!

And of course, any jewelry you had made after Gabriel's arrival and passing would not have included Jamie. The mommy tags sound good. If I were in your shoes, I would derive a lot of comfort from the physical representation of all 3 boys.

Running late, really wish I had my lunatic shirt to wear today! The world may need some advance warning! (I actually do not go on rampages.)

Enjoy Tayga's holiday week--update me with the fun stuff, when you get time!

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I think it's a man thing. My DH doesn't talk that much either. We do on the odd occassion, and not too much. It's too hard to talk together, it's too sensitive for both of us. I found after Gabriel died, we were like a tag-team. When the one was feeling down and crying etc, they other was hand holding and syaing it would be ok. Visa versa. We never really grieved together becasue we were trying so hard to keep it together when the other wasn't.

I know he gets sad and thinks about Gabriel too.

During my pregnancy with Jamie, he was so nervous. I understand what you say about your dh being dfferent with your pregnancies after your first m/c. It's a defence mechanism.
I had to be really careful with that pregnancy - couldn't do too much. It was nerve wracking for us to get to 30 weeks (that's how far I was with Gabriel). I landed up going to 40 weeks !! Where there were more anxieties about going over.

So if I think of my dh, I would say that your dh is probably just as scared and nervous as you. I think they feel that it's not in their control, because it's not in their body.
Men in general are not big talkers. I think his way of wanting to deal with things , being "just us", is so male. I'm sure he and you are frustrated. Wanting something so much and it keeps on getting taken away from you must be very hard.

I struggled to fall pregnant after Gabriel. Which for me is unusual. After just under a year of long cycles ( 40 days and very heavy). I found out that I had an under-active thyroid. Once treated with medication, I fell pregnant the next month.
Those months of waiting, or thinking I was pregnant because I was having a long cycle, were horrible.

After stifling all my thoughts for so long, it is very hard to talk about them. Not always so easy. We do talk, but not often.

Just after Gabriel died we got a cat too. It was for Tayga. Gave him someone to transfer his love to, instead of his brother. It was good for him to have Kit-Kat. I found her comforting too. She was just a kitten (which I found hard funny enough. I didn't want to hold her or be near her. Over time it got easier. As she started growing, and wasn't a "baby".)When I was having a bad day, she would come and sit on my lap. It was a comfort. She still comes to me on days I feel yuck.

I hope your book gives you some comfort and peace.

Going to call a friend to come over for a play (Tayga not me !! )

I hope your heavy feeling has lightened and you are feeling ok.

Tan


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## Mammax4

I have to finally post here, as I have started many times. I hope you don't mind my barging in to your conversation.

I have found myself nodding my head and ah-ha'ing at the computer while reading your posts. I am sure my family must think I have finally gone over the deep end. (not a far journey some days)

Tan II--Thank you for sharing Gabriel with us. I am truly sorry for your loss. (those words come with a real hearty, both arms squeezing hug) I am also inspired by your strength. How blessed we are to have such women here. It really is a community of strength...I am sure many a woman makes it through the bad days by the grace of being here. I know that is the case for me.

Lolalapcat--My fellow broomstick rider, and "sister". I am sorry today was a heavy day. That was me yesterday...I was driving home crying while listening to "Bring me to Life" on the stereo. It was an intense live version, it sounded almost angry...worked for me yesterday. Where did you post the t-shirt expressions? I have a girlfriend that owns a screening company (silk screen/embroidery) she would be up for a less mainstream printing. That could be an obvious indicator of mood for the day. (nice pink and blue ribbon t on a good day...psycho loud angry shirt another)

I hope you don't mind me "interrupting" your chat. Thank you.


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## Tan II

Hi Mamax4

Welcome !! Nice to have u join our chat !

Thank you for your kind words and hug.

It's funny how one "sees" themselves differently to others. I do feel a huge amount of strength and courage. It's amazing how you change with all the life experiences you have. How can you not.

I would hope that I have changed for the better, and that my experiences help me to help others.

On other days I feel like I am falling apart and completely over the edge. I think my dh thinks I have "lost the plot" on some days ! I might even agree with him !!

My dh would love it if I had a t-shirt that said "psycho lunatic" !!! Ha ha ha!

Thanks for coming to say hi, I'm here anytime you want to "pop in" !!

Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan II

I can relate to the falling apart and completely over the edge. That had not been a part of my day to day life before. I hold on to the knowledge that ultimately I needed to experience this. Someone, somewhere, sometime may need my ability to connect at this deeper level. I hope I will be ready to help when that time comes.

I agree with you that our experiences change who we are. I am looking forward to the day when I find my new balance. I feel like a penny that has lost it's shine. Nothing seems to sparkle anymore. (does that make sense without being to "out there"?) There is a restraint about me that has never been there before. I am sure (I hope) that will change in time. I have so many things to be grateful for, I have to make sure I get past this state.

So, from one occassional "psycho lunatic" to another; onwards and upwards we go, if only one step/one day at a time.

A fun question for you:
do you see psycho lunatic in crazy deranged print, or would you take the more "oxymoron" approach? Personally, I like the latter. Those that pass by would not take notice, those that really pay attention would see it.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi Micheline

I definately can relate to the penny having lost it's shine. That's me too.
Time has made me shine a little bit brighter, but I'm still a bit dull compared to what I used to be.

I have a new shine !

I fully agree with you about having needed to experience this for what ever reason. Whatever lesson was meant to be learnt/taught.
Sometimes things happen in life, and we understand later on why they happened. Other times we never understand.

I don't understand why I was given this lesson. I have to try and believe that it was for a reason.

You will get past this state. The people you have to be grateful for will give you a reason to. Don't forget about yourself though. It's ok to have an off day or feel really sad. Don't do what I did, and put yourself last.

Nice motto. Keri, I think we should add it to our "just keep swimming" !

Btw, I agree with you about the t-shirt !!

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hey, Tan.

Poor you, and my poor DH, I just won't shut up now that I have started talking!

He got it again last night, on an hour long trip back from the 'big city'. I didn't mean to talk about the mc/'s and doctors and my fragile emotional state, but it just poured out. What a good man I married, he just listened, and reinforced some of my feelings. Maybe I'm not crazy after all!

I can understand how you and your DH fell into 'tag-teaming' after Gabriel passed. Someone breaking down, someone keeping it together. And it's vaguely what we do here, even. When one of us needs more support, the other rises to provide it. I wonder if it is a deeply ingrained human instinct. Yin and yang, maybe.

Micheline, welcome to the Raging Lunatic chat! It's apparent other people are getting something out of this (which is a little scary, as I'm waiting for someone to point out my obvious need for institutionalization!). But I was waiting for someone to speak! Yes, I agree with the font on the shirt, oxymoronic is good.

I too cry in the car, my own little personal sphere. Music can bring it on pretty easily, even songs I never expected, I just view in a different way. It's a little creepy, how much I can cry, just blot it off, and no one notices. Or says anything, anyway.

Tan, your penny is shining! That actually made me cry. I don't typically sit here doing that. It was such a burst of optimism and hope, and so good to hear!

(Disclaimer: I am NOT saying you always have to be optimistic and hopeful, please continue being real with us!)

Where do both of you get a chance to get it all out, with kids around? No kids in the car, M?

So we bought mattresses last night. (just a sideline, great price, I love a good deal!) It is a step backwards, turning the baby room into a guest room, but a step forward. DH didn't think we needed to set up beds for all his family (his dad, brother and uncle will be here). I told him they would be guest beds now, but beds for our kids in the future. He didn't argue any more. So there's my hope and optimism, I am starting to plan like we will have kids! Umm, no baby stuff though, that would probably put me over the edge.

Tan, another thing in common--it's no longer a surprise, is it? I have a thyroid disorder, actually an autoimmune one. It is most likely a factor in my m/c history. Anyway, I'm on medication also. It's to suppress antithyroid antibodies, since my thyroid still functions normally. My Mom's side of the family is a thyroid disaster!

And I keep thinking about 'the reason'. You posted that quite a ways back, and I've been thinking of it ever since. The reason, we are all going through this for a reason. I have not gotten my arms around it yet, but am working on it.

C'mon, schedule a play date for yourself too!

Okay, I'm still sitting here all teary, but I actually 'feel' pretty good---what the heck? Definitely a 'lunatic' t shirt day!

Thanks for being here, it means the world to me.

Keri


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## Mammax4

Tan-

Ahhhh.....the curse of the nurturer....alway last on their own list. Yes, that would be me too. I think it is a very delicate balance to keep the nurturing part of you from taking over. I have found I am having a hard time not filling my plate with extras. That is how I usually do things. I am aware of needing to have some time for me. That seems to go against my nature...but at least I am trying to keep that in mind. That has to be a step in the right direction.

It is amazing how partners (soul mates) have the ability to be up for the others down. That happened for us too....not so much lately as we have to reconnect. All things in time, this too will come. Hard to bounce back to "normal" from such a shell shock. We need to find our new "normal".

(not that we have ever been "normal"







but you know what i mean)

Keri-

Maybe the bed in the will-be-baby's room is not a step back, but a step sideways. I don't know what your plans are for sleeping (co-, crib...) but there may be a time when you need a second bed so that dh can get some sleep. (important day at work, not feeling well) And there you go! Already ready. It would be much more comfy than a couch. (that's where I went)

I find myself crying in the least public space. The shower, in bed while dh is sleeping (i must say, I'm not in there much...a little insomnia) and now in the car. I was coming home from Dairy Queen, I had picked up my oldest ds's birthday cake (Happy 14th Dan!) and was on my way home. I was surprised by my inability to "reel it in" although it was probably good that I couldn't.
Yes, I was alone in the car. I should not be so worried about keeping it together for the boys, they should know it is okay (healthy) to be sad.

Nice to be here in the "Raging Lunatics". Aren't we all from time to time?

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hey Raging Lunatics !!!!

Keri, I'm sooooo glad that you are opening up and talking to your dh. It's so important. It's times like this that can really test a marriage. At least he'll know how you are feeling and why you are feeling the way you are. Hopefully he is opening up to you. Although don't expect it. I've learnt that men are not the biggest talkers.
Thankfully my dh and I have endured the worst possible thing to happen to anyone, and have come out the other end stronger and still together.

I think it is so easy to move apart and in your own directions. I hope for both of you ( K & M), it doesn't happen.

There were some "hairy" times, I can't lie. If your marriage is strong, you work through it. I am so lucky to have such an amzing husband.

Personal space .... hhhmmm. I have become a very good silent crier. I normally cry in bed while dh is sleeping. If I can't get a grip, I go to another room. Hey ....I've just realised that I haven't done any crying like that in ages.

I find it so hard to actually let go and face the emotion. I'm not the best person to show how vunerable I am in public. I found after Gabriel died, I wasn't sure if a lot of the people who came to visit me were coming to be kind and give support. Or out of curiosity to see how I'd be after having lost a child. (Sound cynical ?).
So of course, me being me, was fine. I never obviously sang and danced, but I didn't scream and cry and lie on the floor either. Sorry folks, no show here.

Now I think it was probably to my disadvantage. Everyone thought I was fine, because I seemed fine. So when I really needed support or even a hug, I never got it. I know I should have asked, but again, I'm so bad at actually asking for help. Never mind a hug.
My dh tried hard to give me support, but he was going through his own pain. Sometimes it's easier to be needy from someone who isn't in the situation with you.

Internally I was a basket case. Externally I was fine. I was trying to deal with the loss of my mother and my child. Trying to be a good mother and wife. Trying to put on a brave face to the world because I didn't want anyone to feel sorry for me. (silly hey.)
Guess what happened ? Everyone moved on with their lives. I was stuck going "help, help" but no-one heard me because I was whispering.

I am learning, slowly, to ask for help. And let those close to me, like my dh, know what is going on in my head. I find it hard.

Music has played and still plays a huge part in my healing and who I am. I love music. The radio is always on, or a cd playing.
When I went for a bit of grief counselling in the beginning, I tried to explain how music helped take the pain away, and to face emotions.
Some songs just "get you", others help you soar.

According to my endochrinologist, trauma like what I went through (and other things), can cause your thryroid to go wonky. At least it's under control now.

Well done for getting the room organised. Good attitude. I'm happy to hear some optimsm. One step at a time.

The reason, the reason. I don't think we'll ever know the true reason for our losses. There are so many things I'd like to believe why it happened.

Keri, I'm glad I can be "here" for you. Micheline, you too. Thanks to you guys for being here for me. It's so good to be able to express how I feel without getting funny looks or having to explain. Also to have someone say "hey, I feel/think that too". Makes you feel normal.

Micheleine, I know what u r saying about being the nurturer. My dh has another word for it. Martyr. Yip, he often tells me to stop being a martyr and putting myself last. Sometimes I have to agree with him, and I think stuff it, I think I'll be first today !!

You're right about finding a new normal. Life does eventually become normal again, with a difference. You will find it. Btw, which family is ever normal ? Ha ha.

After Gabriel died, birthdays for anyone were hard for me. Singing "happy birthday" was impossible. I felt sick when it was sung at parties. It made me sad to think I would never sing it to Gabriel. Would often walk out of the room if I could. These days, it's not so bad. I don't feel sick or cry. Just a twinge in my heart.

I also felt like it was important to keep it together for ds. I tried not to cry often in front of him. I didn't want to upset him.I also wanted him to know it's okay to cry and feel sad. There are times now, I wonder if I tried too hard to shield him from my pain and sadness. If I haven't taught him the lesson to hide how you feel.

I forgot to tell you what Tayga did yesterday ???? He cracked a bone his foot ! Yip. He was playing the fool and slammed his toe, which caused a bone in his foot to crack. So he is hobbling around on crutches. That's boys for you I suppose !! Poor thing, he'll be okay.

Catch ya later
Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan

Is Tayga the envy of all the kids in his class? I bet they are begging for a chance to try out his crutches. Never mind why you have them...they're cool...let me try! I hope your foot feels better soon Tayga.

I have found when I look the best, make up on, hair done etc. is when I feel the worst. It is like a mask or false image to present everyone with when really you'd like to stay in your pajamas all day. (don't get me wrong, I think pajamas as daytime clothes are very under rated) I suppose another in a long list of protective mechanisms.

We call the people that stare at car accidents rubber-neckers. (they turn almost backwards to get a glimps of anything) It would hope that people would be coming only to support you...not fishing for details or dirt on how you are dealing with all of it. (rubber-necking)

I think that dh and I will eventually get there. We both don't have much time right now to figure out who we are now...work full time, house renovation, kids karate/swimming. I think that has been a blessing in disguise, as I don't know how communication would have been early on. Dh said a couple of things that I didn't appreciate very much. Not mean spirited or anything, probably said in a moment of self preservation. He is not a talker, he's a stuffer. We have "pull sessions" when he is stressed, I help him unravel. We shall unravel the mysteries of each other together when we are ready.

Nurturing the nurturer---who ever heard of such a thing. They don't need nurturing, they're martyr's. I too suffer from the can't ask syndrome. I think it goes hand in hand with Supermom syndrome. One leads to the other.

I must go, have to get Dan.

T & K - Thank you both for sharing yourselves and your strength with me. I appreciate it.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi Micheline

I was telling Keri a while ago my strategy for getting people to leave me alone. I looked good. I got dressed nicely, my hair looked good, make-up on .... That is how I am everyday (I like to look good what can I say !). So I carried on looking like I normally did, and not how I felt. People's perception is that if you look ok, then u must be feeling ok. So not the case.

When I'm feeling lousy, but don't want to let on, I put on my "happy face". Between my mask and a few big breaths, I can get away with it.

You and your dh will unravel the mysteries of each other when you are ready - as you say. It's time. Everyone deals with their grief in their own way. Some talk, some paint, some bottle it up until later. I suppose what I want to say is that it can be tough dealing with your pain in your own way. Sometimes lonely. Hold tight, the ride will end evetually.I hope you get off life's roller coaster together.

Rubber-neckers ! I like that ! Probably the reason why I am so reluctant to open up and trust people with how I'm feeling. It bugs me how people think you will casually talk about how it feels to have your heart ripped out and stomped on. Like u r discussing last nights performance of Idol.

Having all your distractions definately helps. You have no choice but to carry on. There were many days I just wanted to curl up under my duvet and stay there. I couldn't, I had to get up and be there for Tayga. He is what kept me sane.

Who told you I was Supermom ??? Sssshhhh !

I've got Jamie's 1st b-day on sunday. We are having a party for family and close friends to celebrate. So I've been busy planning what I'll bake and make. Some of my friends look at me like I'm mad and say "why bake when you can buy?"
Then they spot the Supermom cape ! Ha ha (It's over the deranged lunatic shirt).

I'm glad to know that I can help. Anytime. I wish I would have known about this 3 years ago. It's such a relief to be able to talk and be open.

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Good morning, Tan and Micheline!

It's amazing, the commonalities. Were we three drawn together because we share such similarities, or are some of these things more universal, and we just don't know it yet?

So a lesson we have learned is to reach out for help when we need it. Pretending we are okay is detrimental, and actually pushes people away in the time of our greatest need. Okay. I'll work on that one. It's tough to do IRL.

My 2 best friends--one is massively sleep deprived with her 5 month old son, and frustrated by the lack of support she is getting from her DH. Other friend, my age, unmarried, wants kids and DH but none in sight. I feel bad unloading on them.

My favorite aunt? Could never have children. My Mom is a bit psycho, sometimes talking to her helps, sometimes it makes me very mad. I'm good friends with my Dad, but it's too easy to make him cry, and that crushes my heart. I'm not going to unload on any of them.

So at this point, I am going to keep on talking with you two! I'll try to give the DH a week off from it all. And typing that just made me a little resentful, as I would like a week off from it all.

I do the 'outside looks okay, inside must be okay' thing too. And I am one of those too, my hair is always done and I always have a little makeup on. So I never actually looked/look like I had been crying. Camoflage.

We all cry silently in bed. Tan, that you haven't done that in a while is progress! It helps to talk like this, or to journal your thoughts, partly to get them out. But also so you can look back and see how far you have come.

I couldn't listen to music for the first couple weeks after the last m/c. Looked through cd's, nothing appealed to me. Turned on the radio, it would grate on my nerves--silence was all I wanted. Then I was cleaning house (which is therapy for me) and found the first cd my friend Jayne had ever burned for me. That was the only thing I could listen to for days on end. Music I liked, but I didn't pick it. Another one of those strange, inexplicable things. I should tell her that the cd was a lifeline, but she doesn't know how far gone I get. Makes me sound a little loony (yes, I know, we ARE a bit loony!)

Now I am still listening to really gentle music. My fave disco and funk cd's are all dusty!

Tan, did your experience with Gabriel change your perspective on lots of everyday things? The birthday song is such a powerful example.

My m/c's have changed my perspective on this house. Micheline, we already have a spare bed in the OTHER guest room. Theoretically, when we have a baby we will move upstairs where 2 bedrooms are. (Probably not going to be co-sleepers, my poor DH has taken more than one of my elbows to his chops, I'm a bit of a thrasher. Crib will definitely be in our bedroom though.) At this point, I don't just picture babies, I picture our children, toddlers, school age, teenage in the empty rooms of this house. I used to love the second floor, it's sunny and pretty. Now it's just empty, and I don't like to go up there.

It's my example of how the innocuous becomes a real source of torture.

My friends have the loveliest birthday song, it talks about the next year teaching you to be kind hearted and loving. I'll get the title, maybe you could replace the old song with a new one. I know it is the same concept, but it's a sweet song, it may appeal to you, Tan.

I don't know how you get over trust issues, with friends' intentions. I find that people actively avoid asking me how I am, so that's not one I have to deal with. It happened with my doctor, I remember the exact sentence she said that made me question her intentions. Like a switch was flipped, she went from being a source of hope, a well of education and expertise, to a cold profiteer. When you can't trust a person's intentions, it is impossible to open up.

Micheline, there were definitely some awkward times with my husband, it hasn't all been roses. Men are so very different in how they process these things.

Mine finally read my mind, and started reinforcing that he would still choose me, it was most important that he had me. When I am the one who keeps miscarrying his babies, that was so important for me to hear. I felt like I was breaching a contract, and still do. To hear he didn't want to leave me to find some fertile woman was an enormous relief. Because I couldn't have blamed him if that was what he wanted.

Allright, Supermoms! I have to get moving today. Tan, feed Tayga all the ice cream he can handle, he needs the calcium! Poor kiddo. Micheline, happy belated b-day to Dan! You two are surrounded by celebrations right now!

Keri

ps: from the meditation for today: 'To keep a lamp burning we have to keep putting oil in it.' Mother Teresa. Thanks for being my oil, T & M!


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## Tan II

Hey Keri

Happy to keep listening !

I had a funny thought earlier today. It dawned on me that I have opened up to u and Micheline more than my close friends and even dh. I have really enjoyed our chats, and slowly getting to know you both. Thought I'd let you know !

You are right about keeping a journal. I meant to when Gabriel was in hospital. Then I meant to afterwards. I never did. Now I wish I had.
I was clearing out my email inbox, and found a few weeks worth of emails to my sister while Gabriel was in hospital. I don't have emails over a long period, as my sister and I spoke on the phone a lot. I printed them, and put them in my special box. I suppose it would be like keeping a journal. The conversation between my sister and myself.

It was so strange to read. It was like reading a stranger's story. Only because it was so intense and unreal. Those things happen to other people. After reading the emails,I sat back stunned. It is still hard to believe all we went through. The ups, the downs and finally the end.

While you are caught up in in, you don't think about what is going on. Afterwards when you reflect, it's mind blowing.

I wish I would have kept a journal. I didn't have the time or the energy. It's one of those things u say you will do, and never get around to doing. Then wish you had.

I try and live my life having no regrets, not always easy. It's a silly thing to regret .....

I got a brainwave for Jamie's party today, and made a pinata !!! I'm still busy with it. I decided that there are going to be more older kids than babies. So it will be fun for them.

Going to browse the net for a birthday cake recipe !! Got one?

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi, Tan and Micheline!

Blazes, I ran on and on yesterday....sorry. It's an avalanche.

This one will have to be short, as my DH talked and talked and talked this morning. Us having this discussion on the board has apparently opened a door for him too. So I owe you double thanks for this unexpected turn of events!

He admitted this morning that he is frustrated that he can't 'fix' the situation, so he verbalized what we all thought about our DH's.

Tan, it's good that you have the emails between you and your sister. Not that you would want to read them often, but they are a reminder that yes, you have been through hell, and yes, you made it out the other side. That they seem like they were a stranger's story is very interesting. I guess that is part of moving away from the experience. It would be a challenge, to try to separate Gabriel from the hospital/respirator/doctor journey. An experience you would like to forget, but a child that you never will.

Sorry if that's getting too personal.

I journal sporadically, but this seems to be replacing my journal. Having a conversation changes the direction of my thoughts, so I find this to be a bit more effective at clearing the stuff in my head. You go places I might not have.

Okay, our family cake recipe is what we use for all birthdays. It was my great-grandma's recipe, and it's my all time favorite. Nothing fancy, basic chocolate.

XXXOOO Chocolate Cake

Combine:
2 c. flour
2 c. sugar
3 heaping tbsp. baking cocoa

Add:
2 eggs
1/2 c. shortening
1/2 c. milk
1 tsp. vanilla

In a separate bowl, add
1 c. boiling water to
1 tsp. baking soda
(it will bubble up, so use a bowl that won't overflow)

Add the water/soda mixture to batter. Mix until combined, but do not overmix.

Pour batter into a greased/dusted 9X13 pan. Bake at 350 F. for 30 minutes. Cake is done when it passes the toothpick test!

Of course, you are probably using metric measure and celsius, and altitude will affect the baking time, so I hope this translates easily!

I use dinner guests as guinea pigs all the time---for whatever reason, I love to try new recipes when I have an audience! Asking for trouble, that's what that is!

Pinata, how fun is that! Sounds like it is going to be a great party!

Gotta run, really late!

Keri

ps, meditation of the day: "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part, then I will know fully, as I have been fully known. And now faith, hope and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love." I Corinthians 13: 12-13

Now how awesome is that timing! As we continue to open up to one another, this seems particularly fitting. I too have shared things no other person has heard. Thanks for listening, and for sharing too!


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## Mammax4

Tan and Keri-

Not only are we in-tune, but we are in-line too! (geographically speaking) I will admit to an absolute ignorance of where States are in the US. (I know a few, but only because I have been there, most on the west coast) I looked on the World Map and lo and behold there was Nebraska right in between BC and Australia! (diagonally of course) So, fellow thyroid issue, SuperMom, Raging Lunatics....here we stand! (or sit as the case may be)

Keri- Please know my reference to SuperMom includes you, as you have all the "traits" but no earth babies to hold in your arms. To say you are WonderWoman isn't right, it is like denying your losses. Can you understand what I am trying to say? I am not sure it comes across in printed words the way I mean it in my head. If it offended you, please know that was not my intent.

I am sorry the upstairs causes you such pain. I can relate--our renovation was, in part, to make another room for the baby. Now that room will have another purpose.

You and your DH do the yin-yang thing too. You gave him a week off, and then he opens up to you! I am glad the two of you are sharing. Yet again another commonality! Soul mate partners.

Tan- Maybe if you had kept a journal it would have been too hard, too raw. To be able to re-live each specific moment in such excrutiating detail might be unbearable. Maybe to journal now, about your time then would be something to consider. Perhaps time, and the ability to have some good days now will make your memories easier to read. No less emotional, but different. Again, an opportunity for me to come off wrong--what is with me today?!? I do not want you to think I make light of your pain. I would never do that.

I think this forum is such an opportunity for people to be real. It is a chance for us to connect with others on a really deep, meaningful way. Kinda like your naked self --the true you, no holds barred. There is no need to worry about "what will she think?" "will I overwhelm her with my emotions?" I mean you do, but not in the same way. I guess because we are all here with the same experience (loss), looking for the same things. Peace, understanding, acceptance, support.... I appreciate the chance to "take off the mask" and unload in a safe place. Thank you T & K for being My safe place.

Keri- I Corinthians chapter 13 is titled Love. The following was on a card I was given years ago...

I Corinthians 13: 4-7 "Love is patient and kind; it is not jealous or conceited or proud; love is not ill-mannered or selfish or irritable; love is not happy with evil, but is happy with the truth. Love never gives up; and its faith, hope, and patience never fail."

Maybe that is what this space allows us to do. To love each other--not our "selves", but our spirits, our true being. Seldom do we show that part of us, or are we shown that of others. It is an amazing thing to REALLY know someone. (too over the top?)

Tan- Happy pinata making! I get to make one again this year. Will is turning 4, I figure that is a good age to start them. (I didn't want to "arm" him at 3, I wasn't sure how that would go) My other 2 have not wanted one for years now. (14 & 11 yrs old) That is my creative outlet---kids party stuff. Cakes, pinata's--Love to make 'em. Sometimes I have wanted to make a "plain" one for them to break because the original turned out too nice to smash! (I don't of course...)

Well, hopefully I haven't made myself come off like a complete and total *ss for either of you. I really am a raging lunatic today--different kinda loony, but loony none the less!

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Micheline, and Tan too!

I am addicted to this board. If I am not getting support, I feel like I need to be giving it. My DH says he was really worried about me spending this much time on the board, but he says he has noticed a difference, a lightening of my spirits. And I feel that too. Interesting, when we are dealing with such heavy subjects.

No, you have not come across as even a little bit of an *ss, Micheline! We are lunatics, anything goes, and I enjoy your musings.

Thanks for including me in SuperMoms, but I realize it doesn't really fit. It's okay, you don't need to censor references to being a Mom. You people are everywhere! And I believe my time will come, be it through birth or through adoption. Both roads scare the hellation out of me, but watch me go! Umm, okay, not immediately, but I will go sometime soon here.

I did not make the linear geographical connection--that's pretty neat! It's okay that you didn't know where Nebraska was, we have a lot of states. And, I'm a little embarrassed here, I couldn't label all of your provinces, and there aren't nearly as many







But I knew where BC was, as I was in Seattle in July and everyone was very taken with Vancouver. I've been to Windsor and Winnipeg, if that earns me any points back!

This is a safe place, a true place. You know so much more about me than anyone--all that dark, sad stuff that scares everyone else, you two can face. And I'm certainly comfortable doing the same for you.

I love the idea that what we are getting to know on this board is each other's true selves....it is a rare thing, to lay it all out there for other people to see.

So tonight I'm going to read I Corinthians, perhaps in its entirety, if I can stay awake. I loved today's meditation out of my Healing After Loss book, actually yesterday's too. They so seemed to apply to us. I don't intend to post part of the meditation everyday, but I can't help it when it's so tuned in to what we've been talking about.

Tan, I haven't even updated you about my doctor phobia. I've been to the dentist, got new contacts, and filled the prescriptions. Progress! Just need to call the darn clinic now....sometime.

And Micheline, my MIL sent me new Halloween towels---purple, with an embroidered spider saying 'eeek!'. They are so fun!

Talk to you soon,

Keri


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## Mammax4

Keri- I Love your MIL!!! I won't even ask you to find out where she got them. It never fails, when I see something I like, It AlWaYs CoMeS fRoM tHe StAtEs!!! (I was trying to be loud without screaming)

My musings got the best of me today, kinda got a little carried away. Perhaps not enough posting yesterday, lack of coffee maybe? Probably too much time on my hands. I was overprocessing I think.

It is funny, I have been noticing an upwards swing since I barged in here. Perhaps the key to a lightened load is to unload it---to Raging Lunatics! Glad to be one, glad the two of you are too.

I was hoping you would post the meditations, if they continue to be like the last ones, holy doodle. They were certainly appropriate meditations for right now.

I used to live in Vancouver, we moved 15 years ago, just after we were married. I wouldn't move back there now. Too big, too busy, too crowded for my taste. In the Greater Vancouver area there are more than 2 million people. That is about 1/2 the population of the province of BC. I have never been to either Windsor or Winnipeg, so you've got 2 on me.

The "darn clinic", is that the one that is a good drive away? If you feel you can put it in words, and it is not too personal, what scares you about calling? (if that is beyond bounds, certainly don't stretch yourself, just ignore the question)

Tan- How is the flour, water, newspaper routine coming? What kind of pinata are you making? What are you using to "whack" the pinata?

Bye for now,

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi Ragers !

I didn't reply this morning, which with the time difference woukld have been before you woke up ! I feel like I'm a day behind now !
Was busy tidying the house and baking !

Besides Jamie's party on sunday, tomorrow dh has invited some friends over the watch the grand final football game in the afternoon. So he is having a barbi and his mates and sons will watch the game.
I will either sneak out the house with Jamie or be in the kitchen !

Keri, thanks for the choc cake recipe. I will definately use it. Yum ! I also love cooking and baking. I have a very yummy chocolate mousse recipe for you if u want it. Made it last week.

Micheline, I don't think u make light of my pain. Thank you for considering my feelings. I think you may be right. Re-living those days by reading them would probably be hard. It's hard enough to think about them, and as each year goes by, my memory dims. Maybe not such a bad thing (what was I talking about ? ha ha. only joking !)

Btw, you're not a total *ss. Just loony like the rest of us !!

Keri, I too am addicted to the board ! I come and check it often during the day. The time difference is a pain though. I have worked out that I am 16 hours ahead of you.

I've mentioned to my dh about the board, t I haven't actually told him what we chat about, or shown him. THis is my space to talk freely.
I also feel a difference since chatting here. I was thinking about it this morning. It's amazing how sharing and unloading, how much lighter you feel. When I first joined I was feeling really low and yuck. I am really feeling better.
Half the time I don't even know how I feel, until I express it. So thank you to you for letting me feel safe enough to open up and express how I feel.
Like I have said before, I don't think any or many people have allowed me to feel safe enough to bare all. Even my dh, only becasue he's too close, and it's too hard.
I look forward to reading your replies and answering them.

Keri, well done for going to the dentist and getting more contacts ! Now you can see and your teeth won't fall out ! Ha, ha !
SMall steps, small steps. Next is to make that phone call. Take a deep breath. U can do it.

I haven't been to the states, but I've been to Toronto !

The flour, water, newspaper routine is going well. Done 3 layers. Might do another one. Is that enough ?
I'm boring, doing it around a balloon. Then I'll paint it and decorate it. I thought it would be quiet funny to use Taya's crutch to bash it !

Got to give Jamie dinner, he's starving !

Catch ya later
Tan


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## HaveWool~Will Felt




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## Mammax4

Tan-








The crutch is priceless!!! I laughed out loud at that. Just make sure you allow extra space for the follow through. What is the age range of children at the party? Actually, never mind...16 hrs ahead and the party on Sunday, best leave it so it can dry. I guess you have warmer temps than us though, so that may not be an issue.

I noticed a change in your signature, I am sure that was not easy to do. Thank you for sharing more of Gabriel with us.

K&T- I am not addicted to this board, in fact DS said to me the other night, "Mom, you usually don't like much electronic stuff, t.v., video games... but you're on the computer all the time now!" See....I'm not addicted.

Tan- I gotta ask...are koala bears as cute in real life as they are on t.v.?

Did either of you have intimacy issues with DH after your losses? I am. I think partially because I am somewhat depressed, but also because of what it represents in my head. We will not be trying to conceive again. That is DH's decision, not mine. If it were up to me, I would try again. Maybe it's for the best, I would probably be a basket case (b*tch) if I was to get pregnant. I am sure the worry wouldn't go away until after delivery. So, for me...dtd seems like a slap in the face. Not to mention we would be using some barrier method (I hate that!) DH won't have a vasectomy, I will not get my tubes tied again and won't do hormones. I don't know if either of you can speak to that or not, but I needed to get it out there. He has also started smoking cigarettes again, which sends me over the moon. (not in a good way) Both his parents died from cancer, it is rampant in his family. WHy increase the risk??? (starting to sound/get cranky as I write this...enough of that)

It looks like we should be ready to paint the addition of our house the second weekend in October. It will be nice to put stuff back where it goes. I think it will take me longer to clean my house than it did to build the addition. There is dust everywhere. I gave up trying to keep up and keep it at an embarassing level, not disgusting, but just about.

Talk later,
Micheline

My loony musing for the day-
The events in our lives do not define who we are. Good or bad, they are but experiences that we have had. How we choose to deal with them, the people we show our selves to be during those times, is a reflection of our character. We are defined by our actions. To make a choice, to actively decide to carry on, to not give in to the bad things....that is strength.
May we all be strong today.


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## lolalapcat

We got a hug! Thanks, Woolie! Join in, if you want.

Micheline, you nailed it--we need to unload to lighten our load. Duh. It seems so simple now. And that's why people go to support groups and counseling (not us, we're here!) I'm pleased that all of us are having the same reaction, though, that this is helping.

Tan, it's the same thing for me...I sometimes don't realize what I'm feeling until I start typing, until I get started...

Glad you enjoy my MIL--she's a hoot! She probably got the eeek towels at Meijer's or Kohl's, her two favorite stores. She also sent me a bad of peppermints, to settle my morning sickness??!!!?? That's the last time we talked about mints. Sometimes my life is weird.

My DH would ask what I was checking out on the internet---not being nosy, just chatty. So I started telling him. He was pretty quiet about it for a couple of weeks, but then I started talking about you two, and some of what we talk about. Nothing in depth, just generalizations. And I have not invited him to read any of this! But that opened a door, and now it has unleashed a bit of an avalanche with him, too. Apparently his compartmentalizing didn't work too well for him.

Aahh, the clinic. Micheline, this may have particular interest for you. The reason I don't want to call the clinic is I am not ready to be pregnant again, since that hasn't worked out well for us. The clinic is a natural fertility clinic, associated with the Catholic church. We are looking into this clinic because 1)they actually talk about recurrent m/c on their website, which is rare 2) they are proponents of balancing hormone levels prior to pregnancy. My estrogen and progesterone levels were off during my last pregnancy, and my RE said she did not know if that was an ongoing issue, or a problem with that particular pregnancy. Um, I was her pincushion, they checked my hormone levels as often as possible, she should know. If she doesn't care, I will find a doctor who does. And I want SOMEONE to be proactive with me, gimme a freaking sugar pill, I don't care, just don't do NOTHING! Sorry for yelling, I only have one nerve left on this issue.

Anyway, it involves portions of the rhythm method to monitor hormone levels. Before my m/c's my cycle was extremely predictable, which would make pregnancy pretty easy to avoid. Knowing my cycle certainly makes it easy for us to get pregnant. No hormones, no barrier method. Just a consideration.

My DH says I'm not getting any action until I'm ready to be pregnant again. What? He is actually the one with intimacy issues. He now associates nookie with pregnancy, which leads to m/c. It does make sense, but I'm gonna overrule him! But we do go a long time after an m/c before either of us is ready. Just give yourself time, M.

Okay, more later. Happy pinata making! You have a busy weekend planned, Tan! Thanks for trying my g-grandma's cake. Micheline, I hope the continuing work on the addition becomes easier. Surrender to the mess, we lived in a house we renovated, and you can't fight progress! It is a dusty business.

Keri


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## lolalapcat

Oh, forgot the meditation. "Haste, haste, has no blessing." Swahili proverb.

The idea is not to bury your grief by being busy. Gosh, we haven't done that, have we, Ragers! Take the time to inhabit the province of your grief. It's where we belong, for a while, and we need to be comfortable with it. Then we can move on.


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## Mammax4

Keri- I think that I need to buy this book. Haste, haste is me to a T!

I am starting to look forward to the renovation being done. I am not getting crazy (yet), that will come when we have painting to do, trim to nail and DH wants to sit and watch tv. I know we will enjoy and appreciate the additional space. Our boys will all have their own rooms...that is a good thing! It is kind of bitter sweet I suppose. It will be nice as it is, but sad that it isn't how it was supposed to be. (family room instead of bedroom)

Pardon me for being rude, but is your RE an "insert bad word here" or what??? She is the one you have been with the WHOLE time? Hello dr., what are you doing with all the pokes? (please note the RE was capitalized because it could have easily been mistaken for re: otherwise, the dr. is the DR., at a reduced level) You know, sometimes they just need to be able to say--I can't do that/figure it out.....

I had a tubal reanastamosis (reversal) done twice because dr."r" was not up to snuff. Scheduling the 2nd *DR* to see me, the MOA (medical office assistant) said to me "I don't know why dr."r" even does these anymore....he doesn't do enough of them to stay current." *AAAHHHH!!!* When I saw the 2nd *DR*, he told me "I would use smaller sutures, a different technique and a microscope like the one behind you" (please note the bold on the DR, he has referred me to another DR because "he" was not up to snuff for what I need. hadn't done procedure in 28yrs) Yes, he is the one I referred to in another post. If I could have a "respect" eyes, I would use it too many times!

Now that was a rant. Sorry. We put so much of what is important on the line, only to have professionals not put their all into what needs to be done. (whether it is more investigation or referral to another physician) It is maddening and sad at the same time. We travel down a path to nowhere, when we could have started on another sooner. It can be gut wrenching, afterall what is routine for them is life altering for us.

As far as dr"r" was concerned my *only* option was ART.(assisted reproductive therapy- read: IVF)

The *DR* read dr"r's" post op report for the "why isn't this working" laparascope and *DR* wondered why dr."r" had not done further checking as to why the blockages were not at the operative sites, but further down. !?!?! I can tell you why....I had the nastiest post op infection you could imagine. (after the fact I found out that dr."r" has a bad post op infection rate)

Apparently I have some issues with this. (ya think) To top all that off, we had to wait 6 mos to see the dr, then a year for surgery and then another 6 mos to see if the surgery was going to work. This is why there is such an age gap between #2ds and #3ds.

I booked the *DR* appointment and was in within 9 days, could have had surgery in less than 3 weeks, but booked for 7 weeks instead. (I tested +ve in March after having surgery in Dec.) The end result is not why the DR is *DR*, it is that he recognizes his strengths and weaknesses and does not let the $$$ get in his way.

I suppose I should stop ranting and tend to what needs to get done--other than unloading myself.

Thanks again for taking it all in. (or portions when I get going)

*Happy Birthday Jamie!! Have a Great Party! Whack that pinata once for me!!*

I definately need the "raging" shirt today, gonna have to look into that.

Micheline--the novelist


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## lolalapcat

Happy, happy birthday, Jamie!







: Tan, I hope the party and pinata and cake are all wonderful fun! We'll miss you while you are off entertaining!

Micheline, our DH's are so similar--we have trim off of 2 windows--we put the new ones in in JULY. But DH is going hunting this weekend.....aaack! Someday, we'll get everything done around here. I'm pretty handy with power tools, but the trim is his territory.

Sorry your DH is smoking again. Mine was down to 2 or 3 cigs a day--a miracle, coming from a family of chain smokers--then we had our first m/c. 2 weeks later, his folks came to visit, and chain smoke on our porch, no that's not tempting. During that visit, my dear Granddad passed away, and DH was asked to be a pallbearer. I think DH was smoking 4 cigs at one time, 2 out of each side of his mouth, by that point! I don't blame him, I thought about taking up the dirty old habit, just so I could do something that would bring me some calm. I didn't, it's nasty. But it was tempting, for the first time in my life!

Doctors, oh, you shouldn't get me started! I've been seeing this RE since February, after we'd had 2 m/c's. We thought she was our salvation, helping 'troubleshoot' to see what the problem was, and wanting us to call as soon as we got a pos. test. The clinic, open every day of the year. Pos. test, they wanted me in asap. Very proactive about checking hormones, and putting me on supplemental hormones.

But after the m/c, she told me to 'keep plugging away'. Okay, 3 m/c's is HUGE. That's when the medical community starts to regard a woman as 'infertile', that's when they start calling it 'fetal wasting'--wrap your head around that awful term. Around 2% of women have 3 consecutive m/c's. And she has no plan for me. Nothing.

What's more, she didn't order genetic testing on baby 3's remains. I was led to believe they would do the tests, but they didn't. I did not have them transport the remains to a funeral home because the nurse said there wouldn't really be anything left after the testing. Except they didn't test. So baby 3 got a mass burial at an unidentified funeral home. And we don't know if it was a genetic problem, or a 'Keri's body' problem. And I have to stop talking about this because it makes me so mad.

Anyway, we thought the world of the RE, until we realized she has no clue what to do with someone experiencing recurrent miscarriage. It should have dawned on us when she kept offering us fertility drugs, she specializes in getting people pregnant. Which, of course, is not our issue. We are very good at getting pregnant on our own, thank you very much.

So I need to call the new clinic sometime, they take a more proactive approach prior to pregnancy, and take hormones very seriously. Perhaps that's part of our problem. And I'm keeping the clinic in Chicago in mind, they specialize in recurrent miscarriage....400 miles away.

I am sorry that you have had such frustrating experiences also. What a crappy dr you had! Thank heavens for the good ones, if only we would run into them first! You are right, the power they hold can alter our lives.

This is not the first doctor disappointment I have had. At this point, I have had a few of fabulous drs, several mediocre ones, and a couple that I could seriously shoot paintballs at, if I had a paintball gun.

It takes fortitude and stamina to keep going to the doctors, going through the invasive exams and tests, going through surgeries. Your road was exceedingly rough. And what a long process! Yuck. Just a sideline, so many invasive nasty things have been done on my poor body, I could just about walk down the street naked! No such thing as modesty when you are seeing doctors about reproductive issues.

So why don't I just pick up that phone and call the new clinic? Sure, yeah, I'll get right on that.

I still get irrational (yes, really!) at times when I find out how easily, accidentally some women produce children. Really, if I hear about one more pregnant teenager or accidentally pregnant adult, that may be all it takes to send me over the edge. Except that would be socially unacceptable, so I'll just shut up.

Wow, it's anger tonight. For such a long time, I was just getting the sorrow out. I didn't realize I still had so much rage. Look what you did, Pandora!







:

Okay, back to lighter things. The meditation book is bringing me much enlightenment, it is helping more than I expected, and I am pleased that you are getting something out of it too! Martha Whitmore Hickman, Healing After Loss. I found it at Barnes and Noble, not sure if you have those! Or Kohl's, which is where the eek towels are from....let me know if you need a care package from the US! By the way, my body wash and new moisturizer were both made in Canada---good stuff!

I think we both have some issues! It is probably good to air them out. I think sometimes grief and pain are like fungus, they need exposure to air and light to dry them up. Well, if this isn't exposure, I don't know what is!

Tan, we've move on to rage, just in case you wanted to catch up....

Yes, definitely need the 'raging lunatic' shirt, maybe several!

Okay, I'm going to take 12 hours off from this board. Well, maybe 10 1/2....

Keri, your competing novelist


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## Tan II

Hi RL's

This is a quickie ! I hope the two of you have punching bags ! Get some of that anger out. (Rich coming from me !).

I hope you are feeling more calm !

Thank you for your birthday wishes. We are basically ready for the party tomorrow. Fruit and veggies need to be cut up, apple cake to be made, lollies put in the pinata ...

The pinata turned out really well. I managed to do 5 layers. ThenPainted it and stuck on different coloured streamers all the way round. Should be lots of fun.

I'm feeling really emotional about tomorrow. I can't believe we're there. We are celebrating Jamie's 1st b-day. It's such a milestone normally, but an even bigger one for us.
I look at Jamie and just think that I am so lucky to have him.

I can see I'll be taking lots of big breaths tomorrow and hiding behind sunglasses (lucky it'll be a nice day and we'll be outdoors).

I will reply to your last few postings tomorrow. Can relate to some things there !

Take it easy, and be kind to yourselves.

Tan


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## Tan II

Hi RL's

What a day ! I can definately say the party was a success. There was way too much food, too many lollies (sweets/candy) and loads of fun to be had !
The birthday cake turned out really well. So did the pinata. Keri, the choc cake was so yum ! Thanks for sharing the recipe.

Jamie had fun too. Singing happy birthday to him was hard. Not because I thought of Gabriel, but I suppose because I can't believe we made it. We survived. To have come so far - getting through our loss and being blessed with Jamie. To be able to be standing and celebrating a birthday .... I can't explain it in words. I felt so happy, so sad and so over-whelmed. So damn lucky.

Have no fear - I had my "happy face" on. So no-one knew !

All in all, it was a good day. Lots of fun. Most important !

Micheline, thanks for commenting on my new signature. I wanted to share a bit more of Gabriel with you. Let you know what dates are hard ones. It feels safe to do it here. Thanks.

I have only seen a koala bear once, when I went to a wildlife sanctuary. They are cute. Little things. If they keep still, you'd think it was a toy.

You spoke of intimacy issues. I honestly can't re-call. But we are having them now. From my side. It's like someone has turned a switch off. I don't know what to do to switch it back on. Thankfully my DH is very understanding, and puts no pressure on me.
My gynae seems to think that I have issues I need to sort out (could be depressed), and should go and see someone to talk to. I don't want to.

How are the renovations going ? Close your eyes, and the dust will go away ! Imagine if it was that easy.

I can add some rage too ! Except mine is for stupid in-law family ! They all live in Aus too. They drive me mad. Some days we connect, and it's great. Other days they are selfish, stupid, insensitive, false morons.
I can't wait for my sister to come and live here. Hopefully my brother will follow too. Then things would be amazing.
In the mean time, I'll have to put up with these people who are meant to be family.

I hope you had a good weekend, and are feeling less anger and more peace.

A good friend emailed the other day saying she couldn't remember when Tayga and Jamie's birthdays are. So I replied giving her Tayga, Gabriel and Jamie. She hasn't responded to the email yet ! I wonder if she'll comment. His birthday counts too.

It's been a long day, I'm so tired. Had a shower and am ready for bed. So all that's left to say is "good night " !

Have a good day.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi, Tan!

I'm picturing the party, it sounds lovely!

It is good that you survived it unscathed. That is a lesson that is learned from losing a child, just how very extraordinarily precious the very existence of children is. So many people take their children for granted, and look at what they miss!

And I think it would be okay if you wouldn't have had the 'happy face' on all day---so what if you cry a bit, and when people say something about it you tell them how damn lucky you are? It's okay to be a little shaggy around the edges, instead of being all pulled together and polished. It's a result of life knocking you around.

My great grandma's cake was made on another continent! That's so awesome. Thanks for making it.....mmm now I may have to make one. It's the only recipe I have memorized, so I can whip one up in a jiffy. Then I may have to invite my brother over to help me eat it! Hubby's gone hunting with friends from out of state, fun for him, but no cake!

Mmm, can I have your chocolate mousse and apple cake recipes? I love apple cake, and am continually trying new recipes for it. It's the quest for the perfect one, although I do have 2 recipes that are very good. I have a bag of macintosh apples waiting to be baked---I'm not liking them much for just eating.

Shopping yesterday was a partial success, I found lovely sheets and blankets and throws and rugs for the new guest room. All in aqua and taupe and chocolate brown, very chic, I think. Now I'm excited about getting it all put together! Must find quilts or coverlets, and mattress pads, on the cheap. Everything I found yesterday was on clearance, or inexpensive, even better!

And I had a lovely late lunch with friends, and we laughed and chatted...it was much more relaxed than we have been in a long time. Sometimes they treat me like a hand grenade that is missing its pin, which is actually pretty smart. But normal is so nice. I've missed it.

I have to tell you a baby story! Mind you, I don't choose to spend a lot of time around them, as I wind up chin deep in envy, which is just not good. But my 5 month old godson (yes our dear friends made us godparents, which still brings tears to my eyes) is the notable exception. Last night, he went on a laughing jag that was unbelievable! I had him standing on my lap, and he stared straight in my eyes and laughed until he had to stop to catch his breath then started right back up, and this went on for about 10 minutes! Of course, all of the rest of us were laughing with him. It was like nothing I've ever seen! Oh, I love that little boy!

I like to think our friends hold him a little closer, knowing what Scott and I have been through.

So I am past my rage, and am in a spot of sunshine. Yes, everything is bittersweet, but that's okay I guess. You both know about that, too.

Mm, but I did see a punching bag on sale, I never thought of getting one until you brought it up, Tan! Perhaps you need one too, with your inlaws and all....

Ah, intimacy issues. My theory is you just have to get back in the routine. Pick a day, stick to it, and the routine is started. Even if I'm not in the mood, I know it is good for our marriage, and once we get in the routine I remember why we did the deed in the first place! And it's how our husbands connect with us. And it's an affirmation of life. Is it oversimplifying to say, just do it?

Of course I am married to a man who won't touch me, in case I may get pregnant....must call the clinic. I'm getting closer to it.

And I'm pretty sure all of us have some signs of depression. Grief is depressing. In my professional opinion (have I mentioned my degree in social work, which I use almost exclusively on myself?) we are proactively addressing our grief, and are still able to see the joy in life, which are very positive steps in the face of depression.

You are in therapy. Right here! If you think you need something more, we will push you in the right direction.

Okay, meditation for the day is once again too fitting.

They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him. Psalm 126.

What lovely hope!

Take care, lunatics! I'm off to vac and oil the floor in the new guest room!

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I really enjoyed reading your reply today. You def. seem happier and lighter. I got a really nice vibe from you today. 

The sheets, blankets, throws etc for the guest room sound really nice. Even better that they were a bargain !

Your lunch sounds like you had a nice relaxing time. THat's one of the things I REALLY hate about being around people who have known me for ages. That they treat me like a grenade missing the pin. Right from the start I told people "don't treat me any differently. I'm still the same person, just a bit sadder." I hate it when people "walk on eggshells" with me. It's so uncomfortable for everyone. I found it so much hard work, because I was trying to make everyone around me feel ok.

Your godson sounds so cute ! I love it when they get the giggles. You can't help joining in and laughing too.

Thanks for the advice. You are right, I have to get back into a routine. Poor hubby.

Thanks for addressing grief and explaining it the way you have. I agree with you. It's nice to hear it from someone else. It's easy to hide from yourself. So hearing it put that way from someone else lets me know I'm on the right track !

You haven't mentioned your degree ! At least we know we are getting advice from someone who know's what she's talking about, not only becasue you have studied but unfortunately you have experienced.

I will get my recipe books and give you the recipes. They are yum.

Thanks for the meditation.

Tan


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## Mammax4

Hello RL's!

Well, we have gone from raging *Lunatics* to *Raging* lunatics...what happens when we get to the bargaining phase?
yikes!
I couldn't ask for a better place for any of the stages/phases to be shown. Safe, understood and free to "let it all hang out" is a pretty darn good place to be...Thanks for being there for me...and I'm glad you can't see me IRL if I'm "letting it all hang out"...that might be too scary. (sorry, a little self deprication showing there)

Tan- I am glad Jamie's Birthday party went so well. It takes a lot of effort and energy to pull those off. I am sorry you had to wear your "happy face", but am glad we get to see the real you. Thank you for taking your "happy face" off for us. You are an amazing woman.

I hope your friend does reply and in a positive fashion. Sorry your inlaws are so up and down. I know how much of a pain in the *ss they can be. I had those issues with MIL.

Keri- You sound like a great bargain finder! I like to shop like that too. It is nice to be able to make things look nice, especially at a price that doesn't "break the bank". I had a chuckle to myself at reading about your Godson. They really can be such spirit lifters. I appreciate how honest their emotions are. When they find something funny, they can belly laugh without worry. Their smiles light up so much more than their own faces.

I was at a girlfriends house on Saturday, she didn't even know I had been pregnant. We used to be very close. We had a relationship that was almost mask-less. Anyway, she ran into a mutual friend a week ago and the friend asked if I had had the baby yet. (I haven't been very good at spreading the update apparently) We talked, shared a little, and it felt really great. She acknowledged my loss as a baby, infact she said it sounded like ppd. She had it with her 2nd pregnancy. I don't know if that quite fits here, but it was more acknowledgement of my loss. I cried, of course. It felt good to cry. It wasn't like before when we were really close, and it wasn't like the real connection here, but it was good.

I have never been involved in a forum before. It still strikes me as odd sometimes --- I can sit at my home in front of the computer and feel more connected to people that I don't even know. But yet I do KNOW you both probably better than I would if we knew each other IRL. I am shaking my head as I write this because I would never have believed this would be possible. Yet here we are. I had to add that because when I was coming home from my girlfriend's house, I was thinking how nice it would have been to be really REAL with her. (btw- the capitals are not screaming in this paragraph, but emphasis only)

Keri- Your intimacy advise sounds good, like a good way to get back into the "swing of things", but it is also overwhelming. That will be a difficult step for me. All the stuff in my head has to get turned off or "fixed". I wouldn't want to start bawling in the middle of it all. I'll get there.

Tan- Our renovations should be done the week after Thanksgiving. (Oct.8 is Thanksgiving here) We have drywallers coming in the morning, they will take 3 1/2 days, then the "mudder" comes. That should be another few days of work. So, unless timing goes out the window, I will be painting in 2 weeks. I think this will be the hardest time coming up, it is apparently really dusty when the drywall stuff is going on. We will be washing walls and floors for a while I'm sure. It will be worth it in the end. (please remind me I said that if I start complaining in the next few days)

Have a Great Day,

Micheline


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## Ambrose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tan II* 
I am in between dates. In between the date my baby boy was born, and the day he died. He would have been 3 this year. Hard to imagine, and hard to picture.

He was born at 30 weeks. Being prem, and having health issues, he stayed at the Royal Children's Hospital for the 3 months of his life.
He had good days, he had bad days, he had we're not sure days, he fought as hard as he could.

Then one day the doctors sat us down and said "he's not going to survive". I felt like someone had dropped a building on my head.
THe next day we took him off the ventilator, and held him as he died peacefully in our arms.
We knew that the doctors had done all they could. To keep him on morfene, and have a machine breathe for him - knowing we would only get a few more days with him just didn't seem right. To have him suffering to keep him with us for only a few days more seemed selfish.
It wasn't a hard decision to make. As a parent you always do what is best for your child. We knew he was suffering, and letting him go was the best decision for him. (Not for us, but for him).

3 years gone, and there are still days I cannot believe what we went through as a family.
I'd like to believe that I am a stronger, better person for it. I have to try and take something positive away from this painful experience.

I had another baby last year. It will be his 1st birthday in 3 weeks time
What a joy he is.

Although I find people think because I have had another child - everything is ok now. That all my pain is gone. I don't think that's fair. One child does not replace another.

Time does heal, and we do move forward. We still remember. And he is still very much part of our family.
When you ask my 7 year old how many brothers do you have? He will say 2. I am very proud of him.


All I can say right now...

Is Thank You.


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## athens

The strenght you have, the love,







: will carry you throughout life. Bless you.


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## Tan II

Athens and Ambrose , thank you.


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## Tan II

Hey Lunatics !

Micheline thank you for your kind words.

I have also never been involved in a forum. My dh belongs to one - a music one. And he often talks about it. So one day I decided to see what was out there, and found this one.
It's the best thing I have done in a long time !

I agree with you about feeling connected to people here as against to "real life." I feel like I know you. I really enjoy your & Keri's replies (aka our conversations).
I suppose it's easier to open up here because we have the oppotunity to think about our response without any pressure. Or to talk about anything because we're hiding behind our computers.
Sometimes I worry about putting such personal stuff "out there", because you don't really know who u r chatting to ! No offence to anyone.

I look forward to "chatting" to you everyday ! I think I have a far more open and honest friendship (I think we have a friendship going!),than what I have with some "good" friends here.

Good luck with your renovations.

Keri, I haven't forgotten the recipes. Too lazy to go and get them to type out ! I will do it, I promise 

Btw, my friend hasn't replied to my email with the boys birthdays. She also forgot Jamie's b-day. *shaking head* It really irritates me. I'm the first one to make sure I send off an e-mail for birthdays (on the right day with the time difference). She lives in Canada. My dh says my expectation of people is too high. I don't think so. I think if I can make a point to remember, why can't she. Or anyone else who forgets important dates to me.

Sorry, I'm whining.

Got to go and make school lunch for tomorrow. Tayga goes back to school. No more nagging ! I always feel bad after school holidays. I can't wait for them to be over, and when they are I miss him. THis was a short 2 week break.

Have a good day!
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Good morning, or night as it may be!

Tan, the meditation yesterday went on to say that it takes bravery to move through the process of grief, to not stay stuck in one place. And that after you have been through the process and recovered your equilibrium, you can help others through their journey.....you can see that happening here!

Micheline, a couple of posts back I said you should give yourself time---it takes time to want to be intimate after a m/c. The 'get back into the routine' advice was for Tan! It is a loaded subject, it has meaning and power, and all of that comes into focus when you create or lose a life. There will come a point when you have to jump back into the routine, and if that point doesn't come, I suppose you should talk with your doctor. But give yourself time.

Holy cow, Tan, you just posted while I was typing this! I was scrolling down to double check something, and there was a whole new entry! Very cool.

And we _are_ friends at this point! I think about it too, how amazing it has been to find people that I'm this comfortable with, and how much I look forward to reading your latest entries...

I used to be a little unsettled by the number of onlookers, but I just hope our discourse is helping others, that they can identify with our experiences and feelings. I'm pretty well putting it out there, no one here actually knows me IRL, I don't think. If they do, well, here I am, this is the real me! Tan, I know you have been holding back some, but you are baring more and more of your feelings all the time, people are obviously connecting with that.

Oh, baring feelings...I haven't gotten around to sending a b-day card to our friend who is stationed in Iraq. I bought the card, I misplaced the card, I have a million excuses. He will get a whole care package, due to my guilt. I'm sorry your friend forgot Jamie's b-day, but some of us are just not good with dates and follow through.....I know that's not a good explanation. At least your friend asked for their birthdates.

BTW, I am very impressed that you staked some territory, and gave her Gabriel's birthdate too. Someone who hasn't walked in your shoes may not realize how very important his birth/death dates are. You didn't just give her dates, you gave her a lesson.

Micheline, I'm glad you had a positive, supportive experience with your friend. Why is it none of us can actually let friends IRL know what we are going through? One of my best friends, the one who has been most supportive of me through this, is also a social worker who specializes in mental illness. I know what my own opinion of my mental health is, I guess I'm afraid she will 'assess' me. Don't worry, I haven't worked in social work for ages, I'm not actually breaking out reference books here! My schooling makes me step back and be a little more pragmatic. Did I mention I took a gerontology course titled 'Death and Dying'? Boy, would I like to uncover the notes from that class!

Your friend was right about the ppd...I've never had actual had-a-baby ppd, but believe me, I have a very clear idea of what it is like. This last time was the absolute worst, being on the hormone supplements then going off of them all at once. Mercy. Someone should have locked me up. That m/c was the 3rd week in June, and it has just been the last few weeks that I feel most of the hormones have settled down. Now it's just unadorned grief and healing. Sometimes it is hard to separate the two.

Micheline, we discovered the most awesome device for sanding drywall. It is an electric powered sander, attached to a shop vac. As you sand, it vacuums. We rented it from a home improvement store. It saved us SOOOO much cleaning, and yes, we lived in the house for most of the mudding and sanding! What's more it was FAST, you can sand a whole room in 20 minutes, with some minor hand work in the corners. If your mudder hasn't used one of these, convince him to. My parents are building a new house, and their contracter had never used one of the sander/vacs. He was so impressed he bought one. If your mudder already uses one of these, bake him cookies!

Must go, my zoo requires me to vacuum!

Okay, meditation for the day:

"All I know from my own experience is that the more loss we feel the more grateful we should be for whatever it was we had to lose. It means we had something worth grieving for. The ones I'm sorry for are the ones that go through life not even knowing what grief is." --Frank O'Connor

Take care, my Lunatics!

Keri


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## Mammax4

Happy Monday/Tuesday,

Tan- If I can do it, you can too is also where my expectations are set. The trouble with this is others have different priorities than us. They do things differently than we do and may have good intentions, just trouble with the follow through. Maybe your friend knew a birthday was coming up, but wasn't sure which one and that is why any acknowledgement is late. (maybe you need to loan her your cape) Life can sometimes get in the way of good intentions. She has the dates now, maybe it will change, maybe not. I do understand the frustration, I'm with you on the 'if I can do it so can you' that's me too. Maybe your friend feels bad for not asking about Gabriel, maybe she's embarassed and that is why she hasn't emailed back.

Keri- Your "back into the routine" gave me good cause to think. To really consider what it is that is keeping me from wanting to be intimate with my DH. I was surprised by all the thoughts that went through my head. I suppose this is a step in the forwards direction, at least I have been able to come up with some "why's".

- It means I am okay with no more ttc. (I am not, but yet I know it is not reasonable to have a baby with someone that doesn't want to.)

- I feel hollow and to give myself would not be the same. He would notice the difference between "being there" and "wanting to be there".

- There is such a large gap growing between us, it is hard to make the leap. If I don't soon, perhaps the gap will be too much. We used to sit on the couch together holding hands, now we don't even do that.

- It is a reminder of where my belly isn't...it should be way out there, making intimacy between us different, creative. Yet, here I am 6 pounds heavier than before I was pregnant feeling gross about myself physically on so many levels. (hating my body for failing me/betraying me)

- If I do "it" and we start to get back to a different us (there is no where we were), maybe I won't be sad anymore. Not that I want to be sad, but somehow connecting with him = moving on = putting the loss behind me = forgetting. (That is rambling, may not make sense, but I hope you get what I mean)

What I really need to do is "just do it" (stealing from Nike, I know) and go from there. It may start us swinging back to 'us' instead of 'him' and 'me'.

Too much thinking for a Monday morning without a full cup of coffee in me.

Those notes would probably be an interesting read at the moment. I took a Palliative Care course in 1996, shortly after my FIL passed. I have been involved with the Elderly off and on for most of my life. (visiting with schools, church - to sing, and volunteering) I was an on call Palliative Care volunteer until Will was born in November 2002. I would go in when a resident was 'actively dying' and be with them. 'actively dying' is the best way I have to describe the situation. I have a lot of material on grief. Maybe I will have to track it all down. One of my favorite books that I read during that time is 'Final Gifts', it is a book about dying...how those that are leaving us sometimes know when it will happen and will try to tell us. It may not be something we understand at the time, or it may be very obvious. If you need to inspire tears, that is a book to read. I actually found it very inspiring even though it is about death.

T&K
When I was pregnant, I had a tiny bit of blood in late June. I went to the hospital and of course any bleeding in the first trimester labels your pregnancy as a 'threatened miscarriage'. I talked to the baby and asked her to hold on, to stay and grow healthy. I always had my hand on my belly rubbing it, hoping she could feel me. I had not had any concerns with the other pregnancies, so was very scared.

One night, after my scare, I had a dream. A man and a woman came to me. They looked like a man and a woman, but I knew they were more than that. They were angels. (i know that sounds crazy, but I just knew that was what they were) They told me everything was going to be alright, that she was going to be okay. They didn't really talk, it was more like I could hear their thoughts. Their presence brought me such peace, I wasn't worried anymore. I knew everything was going to be alright. I woke up the next day with such a strong feeling of peace. And a few weeks later, my world came crashing down. I was angry they were wrong.

Since then, I have wondered if my initial interpretation was wrong. They didn't tell me she would be born, they told me everything was going to be alright, she would be alright. I wonder if that was the night she left me. If when I was dreaming my angels, they were there to take my baby, to keep her safe, to make sure she was alright. I say 'she' because that was another thing I came away with from my dream...she was a girl. (I have 3 boys, so a girl was not on my list of expectations)

I have never told anyone that because it sounds too far out there. Have you ever had anything like that happen, or am I scaring you away? just call me SUperfreak!

btw- One of the children's Mom asked me how long it takes to show a +ve on a hpt, she is having such a hard time waiting to test and wondered if she could take a test right away. I thought she was picking up on my 'shut up about that stuff to me' vibe, but I guess not.

ttyl
Micheline


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## Tan II

Good morning Lunatics !

I think I may have my time difference wrong. I have just woken up to monday morning. Yawn !! It's 6.15am, Jamie is already dressed and had breakfast ! My alarm clock is set to go off at 6.50, so I have some "free time" ! I like to be dressed and ready before I wake Tayga up. I like to give him time, so I don't have to frantically nag him to hurry up and get dressed for school. School starts at 9.00am

Keri, those meditations are really great. They give you something to think about. Thanks.

I like the idea that your social work knowledge and experience can guide me. I have a friend in South Africa who is a psychologist. We grew up together. I have to admit I find it hard to be in her company now. I feel like she is assessing me all the time. It drives me mad. I haven't spoken to her in ages.

Michelien, I know what you are saying about other people and their priorities. I try and give them the benefit of the doubt. BUt u r right, If I can do it, so can they.

Omg, how did u cope being with people "actively dying". Wow, I have so much respect for you being in that kind of situation. I think I would have been an emotional wreck. Was it not hard to be in those situations ? Then again, I think about dying alone, and that must be terrible.
I have also heard that when u r dying you know. I think I will read that book - one day.
I'm not scared of dying. I'm scared of dying young. Leaving my boys too early. I make dh take photos of me with the kids & him all the time. So god forbid anything should happen, they will have pics of me with them for when their memories fade. Am I crazy or what ??? Thought I'd share that mad fear of mine.

Have you read "5 People you meet in Heaven" ? I loved that book. I read it soon after my Mom and Gabriel died. It gave me peace that my Mom was ok. Also made me think about how our actions can affect someone else. good and bad. Great read if you haven't.

Micheleine, I don't think you are a Superfreak. I think one under-estimates the power of dreaming. I believe what you dreamt. I think as we get older, less naive,more cynical etc we lose touch with our psycic abilities and power to connect with "the other side". I think too scared too. I have had some experiences, and it has freaked me out.

If anything, you probably did misinterpret what they were telling you. When Gabriel was really sick at the end, my sister went to go and see a Great Rabbi for a blessing for Gabriel and my Mom. People stand in lines to see this man. He has great healing powers. Anyway, he told my sister to tell me that Gabriel will be ok. I mustn't worry.
My sister still feels bad that she kept on telling me that Gabriel will be ok, not to worry. Looking back, we both understand his words now. He will be ok, but not in this world.

So, I don't think you are mad.I think you should find comfort in that dream. It is amazing that you had that dream and that you were open to receiving that message. That is really special.

I could sit here and type away for ages. In the mood to chat !! BUT ... Jamie is moaning, and my alarm clock has just gone off. Where does the time go ?
Got to get going for the morning NOT rush (that's why I get up early !).

Chat later !
Other superfreak lunatic !
Tan


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## Mammax4

Good Monday Morning!

Tan- I just looked it up, BC is 7 hours ahead of Melbourne.

I understand your fear of dying young and leaving your young children without a Mother. I have walked that walk myself for the past 14 years. (not a fear that rules my day, but it colours how I live it) When our first two were little, there was food and drinks (juice boxes) always stored in low cupboards that they could get and open on their own. Just incase...they could at least be nourished.

Now, to explain this seemingly unrational fear...My mom died when I was 9, my sister was 5. We were in the house with her and the ambulance came, it took them (what seemed like) forever to get her stabilized for transport to hospital. I had come in the house to check dinner and tell mom I had broken the kitchen window (threw a ball through it) and we couldn't wake her up. She was alive, but barely. The paramedics had to perform CPR on her. She died in hospital days later. My mom was 26 when she died.

sorry if that is too much to read, it is a story I hesitate to tell because it weirds people out IRL, they don't know what to say ...but I understand your fear.

I have been blessed to be part of the last journey of many people's lives. I consider it a priviledge to be involved. I have the benefit of no 'baggage' to bring with me to the person's death. For me, the thought of someone wanting company and none being there is too sad. I was there for my MIL too. She passed away at home. We had the QRT (Palliative Care Quick Response Team) get us set up there and then it was up to us. Luckily, I have a gf that is an RN, she gave us confidence to do what we needed. My DH used to say 'have fun' when I would go off to a dying resident. He was not being flip, rude or disrespectful. He understood how much I got from it, how almost energized you become. If you have ever attended someone else giving birth, it is the same kind of energy...not a beginning, but an end. (That is another hat I have worn - Doula)

Two of the families I deal with have Social Working Mom's. I keep things with them superficial, so I don't need to worry about them getting in my head. I don't think I would like that. Keri-- you are welcome in my head anytime, you too Tan! Infact, try to stay out now that you've opened the 'door'!!









I have not yet read 5 people you meet in Heaven, but will soon. That's two books I need to pick up. A trip to the book store will be in order.

I am supposed to go walking at 6am tomorrow with my neighbor. I am hoping this will help me be in a better space--it will certainly help switch my sleep patterns!

Have a great (rest of your) day

Micheline


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## Tan II

I'm so silly !! Just realised today IS tuesday !!!!!!!!
Yesterday was a holiday. So today feels like monday, but it's really tuesday.

Ooops !


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## Tan II

Hi Micheline

Thank you for sharing a precious piece of who you are with me. You and your mom were so young. It must have been such a shock ans so hard to understand being so young. Was she ill ? ( I hope u don't mind me asking).

My dad was killed in a head-on collision on his way to work. I was 13yrs old, my dad was 36yrs.
I understand what it is like to have lost a parent at a young age.
It must have been very hard for you growing up without a mom. My mother died 3 years ago, and I miss her everyday and think of her everyday.

What you do, being with someone while they are dying is ..... special. I actually don't know what the right word is. Kind.
Thankfully, my sister was with my Mom when she died. It would have broken my heart if she had been alone.

Wow, you wear many hats ! Not supermom ..... Superwoman !!

Watching someone give birth must be an amazing experience.

Enjoy your walk tomorrow. I hope you clear out some head space. I would love to go walking or do some gym, but have really hurt my back. OOOWWWW ! To much picking Jamie up ! Going for a massage tomorrow.

Now that I have my days right , I'm off to hang up some washing.

Catch up later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Wow. I don't even know where to start.

I'm just sitting here for a moment being grateful I still have my parents. I cannot imagine, even with my eyes closed, trying really hard, what it would be like to have lost a parent so young (Tan, I had even thought that about you losing your Mom in your 30's). My heart breaks for you both, you were truly cheated.

That certainly explains why you are taking pictures, keeping food in low cupboards...you own experiences lead you to take actions that, for you, are common sense. It probably reflects in your lives in a million little ways.

Tan, that your sister went to the Rabbi for you, that's so lovely. Hindsight sure changes the meaning of what he said.

Mich, I don't think you are a Superfreak, I think you are lucky, that your dream was a wonderful gift. If I think you are a freak for that, then you have to think I am a freak for saying that life keeps handing me people to help me get through all of this. Customers, for the love of Pete. A wonderful Jewish man on an airplane flight (his seat assignment got screwed up, just so he could sit by me and give me peace). You two fabulous women. There are more, I just can't think when under pressure.

It's things like this that make you take pause, and recognize there are powers higher than us, other currents at work in the universe. It is not coincidence.

I have other things to say, to carry on the discussion, but I can't do it right now. Just when I thought I had a grip on the perpetual crying, it's back. It's for other people tonight, you two, and the people on the other threads, and for the people suffering senseless tragedy in this country. How I wish the world was not so full of pain.

Big, big hugs to you tonight. I'll chat more in the morning.

K


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## lolalapcat

Good morning RL's.

Okay, I have slept and regrouped, and am ready to converse more.

It's amazing, what people go through and survive. Micheline, you are right, people don't know what to say about you losing your Mom so early. Just like they don't know what to say about the loss of a child or baby or pregnancy. And as we all know, it's so easy to say the wrong thing without even trying. I don't know why we are so thrown by it, when it is a part of life, and so many people go through similar things.

Hopefully we can change that here, for us. Baby steps. It is interesting that, when we have been talking about loss and grief, it took so long for you both to bring up the loss of parents. I know, it's not really the point of this board, but still....

M, your experience in palliative care is fascinating, what an amazingly kind heart you have! You seem to be very comfortable with the whole cycle of life, which is something that fairly well traumatizes me! You may have to counsel me more seriously...

Wow, psychologists and social workers must get really lonely, with all of us avoiding them! I wonder if I have been pushing my social worker friend away too much.

I am not trying to get into anyone's head here. My experience was with teenagers, and most of what I did was calming the immediate situation, and referral to other services. It was a short term crisis shelter. I have never actually sat in a room, asking a client to pour out their deepest thoughts. What's more, I haven't worked in a social work setting in 10 years. I do not think of anyone here as subjects, I think of them as friends, in a unique position to empathize.

But I do appreciate the invitation to set up residence in your head, M!

It was very introspective of you to look at why you don't want to be intimate with your DH, Micheline. I had wondered how you two were going to resolve the ttc/not ttc thing, because that is a massive issue. Very personal, obviously, which is why I haven't gone there. If you don't agree on ttc, that means it is an issue every time you are physically intimate...

Please don't let the gulf between you and your DH get too wide, that's scary. Your reasons for not wanting to be intimate are extraordinarily valid, and perhaps sharing some of that with your DH will help him understand, and give you more time.

And moving on can feel as though we are dishonoring our lost babies. But moving on does not mean we will ever forget. Quite honestly, I don't think I would want to live life without moving on. Like that meditation said, it is important to inhabit the province of your grief, get comfortable with it. It is real, and rational. But to stay there too long, that isn't living. So aren't we are all learning how to move on, but carry the memories, and lost futures, and some of the grief with us?

I'm also sorry you feel gross, having put on a few pounds. Having a m/c is a very physical issue, and coupled with grief, it makes retreating and resting very necessary. It is evidence that you have given your body and soul this space. I feel strongly that the body is the vessel that cradles your soul, and it deserves respect. This is my own personal struggle too, to not hate the body that rejects my babies. I remind myself that my body has served me well, it is strong, doesn't get sick often, balances its autoimmune disease very well....your body has produced and nourished 4 babies, 3 of them that you get to hold.

Blah, blah, blah. I'll stop lecturing, sorry about that.

Tan, I hope the massage cures your back issues! I haven't read the 5 People you Meet in Heaven, but will soon. Have you read Tuesdays with Morrie? It is beautiful. I caught on interview on tv this morning, Mitch Albom has just released another new book, can't remember the title though!

Mich, I hope you enjoyed your early morning walk. Isn't 6am the middle of the night? SuperMom is here again!

Meditation of the day: As the months pass and the seasons change, something of tranquility descends, and although the well-remembered footsteps will not sound again, nor the voice call from the room beyond,there seems to be about one in the air an atmosphere of love, a living presence...it is as though one shared, in some indefinable manner, the freedom and the peace, even at times the joy, of another world where there is no pain. --Daphne Du Maurier

I think that this meditation may be meant for the two of you...

Take care, my friends!

Keri


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## Mammax4

This ended up being a novel and then some.

Keri- First off, I must say I Love that you called me Mich. My family (sisters, cousins, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles....) all call me that. You gave me the warm fuzzies by using that familiar form. Feel free to keep using it!

I did not make my 6am walk today, it was a bad night last night. DH expressed a little too much anger (directed at me) and I pretty much shut down. It was not the best way to initiate conversation, but at least it has started that. He did not want to go to work this morning as we had started talking. Honestly, I think I cried more last night than I have since my m/c. Perhaps that was a reaction long overdue, not a nice catalyst though. DH and I have had a pretty relaxed, positive relationship. We don't fight, and had not had a situation like last night come up before. DH was married before (no kids with ex) and at times paints me with her brush. I know that he is frustrated that he can't 'fix' me. Maybe our talk tonight will help. It can't hurt- not long term anyway.

Keri - The invite into my head was not for analytical purposes, but to my inner most thoughts. Perhaps that was the wrong destination, for really it is not my head but my heart, Keri and Tan, that you both occupy.

Tan- I looked at the time of day, but not the day. You are 17-19 hours ahead depending on the time of year. It is easier to work 7 hrs back and add one day. (for me anyway!) I hope you enjoyed your massage. Did you have it yet?? Have you ever tried reiki or accupressure?

Being present at another woman's birth is truly amazing. I think more overwhelming (in a different way) than being at your own. I never cried at my births, but have when attending friends. The first birth I attended was 12 years ago, I was pregnant with Chris (our 2nd). It was inspiring. The last birth I attended was 2 years ago, I have put that part of my life on hold.

I am sorry that you lost your Dad in such a tragic way, and at such a young age. That does explain your worry about leaving your own boys without you at a young age. I don't ever worry about DH leaving me for another woman, but I do worry (not actively) that he will die and leave me that way. It's not a worry so much as it is almost an expectation. Kind of hard to put to words.

When my mom died, we were told it was due to an aneursym in her brain that had ruptured. The aneursym was caused by medications needed after a car accident she had been in. (It was a drunk driver that hit her) The cause of death, it turns out, was due to something else.

My sister had a new Dr. and was going over medical background. The Dr. asked her to find the cause of the aneurysm, to ensure she could be monitored if required. My sister contacted the Coroner's Office and the cause of death was listed as "...accidental death, namely from drugoverdose, cardiac arrest, cerebral ischaemic necrosis of the brain and bilateral broncho pneumonia."

The autopsy report clinical history states she had been admitted to hospital 3 times before for the "same complaint, and recovered." I know of 1 time, because we were at home and were responsible for the ambulance arriving. She was dopey and could not get to the bathroom on her own, my sister and I took her, pulled her pants down and sat her on the toilet. I don't know when the other 2 times (prior to death) took place, but do not doubt the reports accuracy. I do wonder though, if it was an accident this time. I remember her coming home and going to bed with a nasty headache. Maybe she took the pills and came home in that condition, maybe she had a toxic level build up in her. I don't know. I would like to think she wouldn't have done it on purpose, but it does seem she was determined to end her own life. Four times seems like more than a cry for help, but a desire for life to truly end.

I spoke to my Dad about all of the findings last year, he surprised me by defending her. He spoke of how troubled she was, she had a hard beginning....bad family....etc. blah, blah, blah.... To me, that is the ultimate in selfishness. To end your life and leave children alone is disgusting. Now, I must say that before I found all of this out, I already had attitude about my mom. Not anger as much as a lack of respect. She showed me the exact oppposite of how I would parent. I know that if she had lived, we would not be close now as we would have been total opposites with only a blood tie. I now have had an experience with a sadness that has overwhelmed me more than anything else in the world. (pregnancy loss) I could never do anything like that to my children.

Anyway....That's my story. Tan, aren't you glad you asked?!?! I hope it hasn't made you feel bad for asking, I don't feel bad that you asked.

My philosophy in life is simply this-- You can be a victor or a victim... we all have bad things that have happened to us...you have to choose how you deal with those experiences. I choose to be a victor.

I hope you have a wonderful day. Mine is noisy and smelly at the moment. (drywallers)

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hey K & M

Keri, I loved the last meditation. Thank you.

I haven't read Tuesdays with Morrie.I keep meaning to. I have heard it's a great read.

Mich, I hope you and dh are back on track. It's so easy to start moving in different directions. Scary how easy. Been there, done that. Thank goodness we have a good marriage and were able to get it together. There were some days I would have packed his suitcase for him !

I don't know what works for you, but I find when I am p*ssed off with dh, and I feel ready to open up. I either write him a letter, or send him an email. It's amazing how much more you can say when you are not face to face. It also gives them time to take in and digest what you have said without getting defensive.

I haven't had my massage yet, I'm booked for tomorrow. I am feeling much better compared to yesterday. Still sore, but not as bad. I stretched my back out this morning, so maybe that helped.
I want to get back to my exercising ! Summer is on the way !! Still got 3-4 kilos to get rid of.

I haven't gone for reiki or acupuncture. I normally go to the chiropractor or have a massage. I fell down the stairs about 10 months ago. Landed on my back ! Since then it gets sore every now and then.

You blew me away with what happened to your mom. Thanks for sharing.
Wow, you must have been so shocked when you found out. What a thing to discover.

I would imagine you would be so angry and so hurt.

I'm with you about being a victor or a victim. Btw, my philosophy too ! I am a victor too.

My mother was the exact opposite to me. She was a victim. It drove me mad. I swore I would never be like her. Which I'm not. The problem is, is that I am probably the other extreme. The Martyr.
Can there ever be a balance ????

I hope it's not too smelly and noisy.

Got to go and tidy the kitchen and shower.

Chat to u later.
Tan


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## Tan II

Keri, I remembered the recipes !!! I thought if I don't type it now, another day will go by.

FYI, both are dairy-free. Choc mouse you could use milk choc if u wanted and cream.

Chocolate Mousse

4 eggs, seperated
4 oz. bittersweet choc, melted
2tsp coffee
1/2 cup sugar
1/2 cup cream

Beat egg yolks with sugar until lemon coloured
Add melted chocolate and coffee
Beat egg whites until stiff and add to yolk mixture
Beat cream until stiff and add
Refrigerate and serve cold

Apple dessert cake

1 tin pie apples
1 cup flour
200ml oil
1 cup sugar
2 tsp baking powder
2 tsp vanilla essence
2 eggs - beaten

Place apples in dish
Mix ingredients together and pour over fruit

Bake @ 165 C for 1 hour

* peaches can be used instead of apples.

Enjoy


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## lolalapcat

Morning again. Time flies!

Tan, what quantity of apples is a 'tin'? That is not something I have heard before! Those macintosh apples are waiting for this recipe! Have I mentioned that we have 2 apple trees? The Fuji bore a handful this year, the Granny Smith is struggling a bit. Our cherry tree is beautiful; all of the trees were planted last year, along with a shade tree. Our mini orchard brings me joy.

Another commonality shared by us--we all try to be the opposite of our mothers. Mine is thoughtless and selfish, not continually, but a lot of the time. She was an okay Mommy, although my brother would disagree, but she is not often a good wife. My Dad deserves far better; his patience is seemingly inexhaustible. So when situations with my husband come up, I think of what Mom would do, and then do the opposite. This seems to work, as my DH and I have a really good marriage.

It's amazing, the things that pull us together.

I was thinking I was really sorry for the mother you had, Mich, and I am, sort of...but if she hadn't been the way she was, you wouldn't be who you are, and I like you the way you are! It's tough to find the balance there, just like Tan was saying.

And the balance is what we are looking for, I think. Balancing 'not forgetting' with 'moving on'. Balancing 'loving wife' with 'grieving mother'. Balancing 'martyr' and 'victim'. Balancing 'permanent undercurrent of loss' with 'joy that we deserve to be experiencing'.

Mich, I'm sorry the conversation with your DH started in such a way, but it is good that you talked. I hope it becomes easier. It has with my DH and me. When I leave the door open for discussion, often he will come through. Once again, time makes this easier, when emotions aren't so raw. Actually that's kind of unrealistic, now that I type it. I'm not sure when or if emotions become less raw when you are talking about losing a baby.

I truly believe that situations like we have been through change us to the core, although I cannot even place my finger on exactly how I have changed, yet. I just know I have. So DH and I are getting reacquainted, in a sense. Taking in each others' changes.

It's so hard on the husbands. They lose a child, and they lose their wives for a while too.

I'm glad I found your nickname, Mich! Would you please tell me how to pronounce your name? I don't want to mispronounce it in my head, or when I tell DH I've been talking to you both! Also, it was nice to hear 2nd son's name, since I knew the names of your 1st and 3rd.

'Tuesdays with Morrie' is a great story, but also a guidebook to passing from this life with dignity and grace and acceptance. It's a very healthy perspective. A strain of familial ALS runs in my Mom's side of the family (Morrie had ALS), so the story spoke to me in a more personal way too. In fact, my Mom has an appointment with her neurologist in 20 minutes. She does not have ALS, at least the Dr. doesn't think so, but she does have some sort of progressive weakness in her legs. I'm getting more than a little frustrated, with me being undiagnosible, and my Mom being undiagnosible. Grrr.

Okay, I must scat.

Meditation for today:
Great Spirit, now I pray to you,
Great Spirit, hear me;
My soul is weary,
Now I pray that your Spirit will dwell in me.

----Kiowa Prayer

Not quite as profoundly fitting as some of the other meditations, but I can sure relate to a soul being weary. The Kiowa are a native people from the area of the US that I live in, the Great Plains.

Goodbye for now, my friends.

Keri


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## Mammax4

Keri and Tan

I believe that if for one moment, your life experiences were different, you could be entirely different. One thing different and I would not have my amazing children and my DH.

I absolutely would not change a moment of what my experiences have been. As challenging as some of them have been, they have made me who I am. I try to temper some of the traits I have developed at times, but for the most part am happy with the person I am.

I was somewhat angry when I found out the truth about my mom, but it was not with any intensity. Not really angry for me, that it was my reality, but that a parent could do that to their children. You need to have some emotional connection for a real good anger to get going, there just isn't that for me. It has been 26 years since my mom died, I moved on a long time ago. I was 'peeved' that my parents had not told me the truth about her cause of death, but as a parent can understand the protective mechanism they may have been operating under. Why they didn't tell me when I was older, I don't know, maybe fear of my reaction for not telling me before. I'm not sure, it doesn't really matter.

It is sad that she (mom) felt that suicide was a reasonable action to take with two young children to care for. I don't think she was at a nuturing point in her life, if she was a nurturer at all. I believe she got pregnant with me to escape her house, she married my dad-- they divorced--she got pregnant with my sister, she married my Dad--they divorced. This was all by the time she was 26. That is alot of life to have lived in such a short time.

Tan, I think my DH used your p*ssed off motivation. He needed to unload some of the stuff he was feeling/thinking and let it fly and got the ball rolling. DH and I had a good talk last night and it feels much better. We have started the turn back towards each other instead of pulling away. This may not be a steady thing, but we have a start and a 'plan'. We are going to have 'date night'. I don't know how often or what the date might be, but we are going to make time for each other and conversation. It is easy to take things the wrong way when your normal connection is not there anymore.

It is funny, Keri, that you mentioned how you are getting reaquainted with DH-the new you and the new him. DH said to me that he just wanted us to get back to the way we were. I told him that we weren't who we were anymore, that we were different now, so our 'us' would be different too. I believe that if you can make it through something as emotionally intense as our losses have been, you can make it through anything. I believe we all have that kind of relationship with our DH's and that we will all come out of this together. It may not always be sunshine and roses, but we have strong foundations to keep our marriages together.

Tan, you fell down the stairs and hurt your back, I hurt my arm/shoulder, Keri....?? How's your balance?

I I hurt my arm falling off a chair. (should I tell you it was a swivel chair I was standing on, or can I leave that part out so I don't feel like such an *ss?) I was in my parents motorhome trying to get something off the bed above the driver/passenger seats. The seat spun on me and I went flying. My shoulder is still sore, I had x-rays (is there any chance you might be pregnant?) there was nothing broken. I'm sure it was quite a sight, my poor Dad was standing right there when I did it. He swooped me up like I was still 'Daddy's little girl'. It was 5 am I had just taken Harmony (our dog) out for a pee and was getting her a treat for telling me she had to go outside. darn dog. (just kidding)

That is enough for now, or I will end up with another novel....or heaven help, I might run out of things to say.









Enjoy your day!

Micheline

(Mish-ah-lean) were you close???


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## Tan II

Hi K & M

I would probably say a tin in equivalent to ..... 3 apples. Cut the apples into slices and line the bottom of the dish. Use more than 3 apples if it doesn't look like it's enough. Play around !
I normally used tinned pie apples (you could use any fruit I'm sure)

Your garden sounds lovely. We have a plum tree and a lemon tree in our garden.

It is amazing the things that pull us together. It's not like we knew anything about each other when we started "chatting". We seem to be similar in so many ways.

I was telling my friend about you both last night. How it has been amazing to open up and chat and form our friendship.
I was thinking how much better and happier I feel. Not so angry like I had been feeling.

It's amazing how sharing with others really helps. I feel like the poison I had been brewing inside, is slowly leaving. All the pain, hurt, anger ..... I'm getting rid of it. Now there is place for the happy, fun, nice person that I was.

Thank you Ke and Mich for allowing me to feel safe and to share, and most of all feel better inside.

Mich, I'm glad to hear things with your dh are on track. There is nothing worse that fighting and a bad vibe around - especially if you have a good relationship normally.

Our life experiences do change who we are from so many aspects. I know I am a different wife and mother to the kind of mother my mom was. She wasn't a bad mother, she just wasn't very involved and a lot of things were too hard for her to do (too much trouble).
She was the best mother SHE could be (I wanted more).

I also can't say how my life experiences have changed me, or my relationships with others. But it has. I hope for the better.

Last month my dh and I went on a "date". It was the first time we had gone out alone since before Jamie was born. It was so nice. We chatted, and laughed and were able to really talk.
I find our lives are so busy, we don't really talk. Sure we talk about the normal stuff, but we never have the opportunity to talk about our innermost thoughts.

So we had a great night together. I actually said to him last night "when is our next date?". It's fun to get dressed up and go out !

I have a poem I think you both will relate to.

Why this is Me

I can see you miss the old me
You wonder where she is and if she will ever return.
Just for a moment:
Imagine the unimaginable
Think the unthinkable
Listen to the unspeakable
Believe the unbelievable
Make sense of the senseless
Face the unwanted truth
And keep on breathing.

In addition to all of the above
Ride the most terrifying rollercoaster and scream
"I want to get off"

That is where I have been since the death of my child
I have survived and I even hope to truly live again.

In this moment in time this is me.
I invite you to get to know the "ME" of today.

(Written by Margot Smith mother of Georgia)

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hello, Lunatics!

Tan, that poem is so accurate.

I'm just so pleased that these chats have been so helpful to you. I liken it to exposing a fungus to the air and sunlight, drying up all the grief. Gross, I know, sorry. But that's honestly how I feel, like if you don't acknowledge the grief and all its trappings (anger, sorrow, helplessness....) it will never heal. And it can be really ugly.

It's still off and on with me. I feel much better, lighter, and my sense of humor has started to return. But the road ahead scares me. And I especially fear sliding back, losing the progress, this return to pseudo-normalish. Depending on what happens, that is a realistic fear, and I so don't want to go back there.

But for now, it's still better, and I thank both of you for that! If only I had known you were out there, I would have reached out sooner.

Mich, I hope that talking with your DH helps him, too, and gets you guys back on the same page. Date night sounds like a great idea, a chance to focus on each other, look into each others' eyes and really listen to each other. And eat some good food, maybe go out dancing! Now I want a date night!

Our m/c's have definitely introduced some awkwardness into our relationship, but at this point I think we are past most of it. It really makes you expose the rawest parts of your souls to each other, and that's not a comfortable thing to do, even if it is your dearest person in the world.

Poor DH, he's about to embark on 4 days in a car with me! Who knows all that we will talk about....it could be interesting. He is not acting the least bit scared, so I must be better to be around! Anyway, tomorrow is our 5th anniversary, so we are taking a car tour to western Nebraska, then up to South Dakota (the Black Hills--low, butte-like hills, covered with pine trees--, Mount Rushmore--a small mountain with the faces of four of our presidents carved into it--, all kinds of scenic byways).

Consequently, I will not be here for the next few days, and will miss you both! Heck, I missed you this morning when I couldn't get any of the discussion pages to open up!

So...is a 'tin' a 'tin can'? I am so dense. Oh, a lemon tree! You are so lucky! We are too far north for citrus, or I would have one of those. Mmm, and an olive tree, and it would be fun to grow coffee. Your climate would be so much fun! Of course, you would have to take into consideration my scanty luck with growing things...

Mich, that's exactly how I have been saying your name! Oh, my balance seems to be okay, but I run into things a lot. Did either of you have hormonally related balance issues? I couldn't even walk though a doorway without running into it for awhile there. I do hope you both heal soon...Mich, have you had any reiki or accupressure done? I keep thinking about acupunture, my chi seems out of whack! Sometimes Western medicine leaves me wanting more...

I could keep on talking, but it's late and I still have to pack...have I mentioned I am a massive procrastinator? Hmm, you may have picked up on that..

Meditation du jour: I sit on the rich, moist earth, green earth, knees pulled to my chest. All is not lost. The birds have simply moved on. They give me the courage to do the same.---Terry Tempest Williams

That's just pretty. And you know I like anything that addresses courage!

I'll miss you two! We'll be back home late Monday, so I'll try to check in Tuesday.

Keri the Pseudo-normalish


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## Mammax4

Keri-

I hope you catch this before you go....







HAPPY 5th ANNIVERSARY!!!









We will miss you while you are gone. Have a safe journey. btw- black hills gold is very nice.

En Francais mon ami-- c'est bonne.

I have had both accupressure and reiki done. I have a gf that is certified in both. She is a very spiritual woman, so I think that is what makes her Reiki work so well. I had a chiropractic treatment and no real change, the same night I went to her and she did both...I regained my full range of motion by the end of the treatment. I have been tempted to get her to do another treatment on me since the m/c, but I am afraid of what my response would be. It can be an emotional experience, I wouldn't want to have that with her. It would be okay, she would be the best person to do that with, but I can't - not yet anyway.

DH and I have certainly started the re-connect. It doesn't feel like I need to hold myself so tight and so far away from him. It will be fun to have date-night.

Tan- I sent that poem to my sister, she cried. She hasn't had pregnancy loss, but has fertility issues. She and her DH both have issues and have done IVF for their ds#2. They will be trying again soon. My sister has bad arthritis (associated with psoriasis) and needs to try a different therapy. The one she is currently on is a no-go during pregnancy.

I too feel greatful for having found you two. It has been an upswing, the first steady one yet. If it crashes, I know it can turn around. Thank you for helping me find the light in the darkness. My head can be a not-so-pleasant place to be if left there on my own.

We have some apple, pear, plum and a cherry tree in our back yard. So far, they haven't produced much, but they had been neglected. We have been here for about 1 1/2 years, so we are trying to get them back. Hopefully it works. I should clarify--I don't touch green things...if I do, they turn brown.

pssst Keri--Maybe we should barge in on Tan and see how nice it REally is 'down under'.

Tan- I guess it's just you and me for a bit. Eeek--What are we going to do without the meditation for the day!?!

Have a great day Tan. Keri, I hope your packing gets done quickly so you can get some sleep.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hey Lunatics !

U can't scare me !! Come visit anytime !









Keri, Happy 5 th Anniversary. Wishing you many more healthy and happy ones. I hoe you and dh have a great few days away.

Mich I understand what you say about those treatments being too emotional. Soon after Gabriel died, I had reiki done. Afterwards I cried and cried. It was like my soul had been touched.

I'm glad you and dh are re-connecting. It's scary when you stop connecting. I think you both need to keep in mind that you are on your own journeys at the moment, and that you will "meet up" again.

It's so hard trying to function normally. I found that it took nearly all my energy to keep myself together. I didn't have any left for my dh. The drop that I did have left I had to use for Tayga.

Thank you for sharing the poem with your sister. I hope it brings her comfort. It's not always easy to express how you feel.
I hope everything works in her favour soon.

Today's meditation ....

Take chances. When rowing forward, the boat may rock. -Chinese Proverb

Have a great day.
Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan

I know what you mean about how much energy it takes to present the I'm okay picture...the image that everyone needs to see. I think the only place I cried was in my bed at night, aside from the hospital when I went in that Friday night. You put so much energy into 'keeping it together' that even when you are interacting with someone, you really aren't 'there'. I found it was like I took a really big breath and held it in, and I couldn't allow myself to be truly/wholly engaged by something/someone else or I might lose track of that breath I was holding in...the breath that was holding me together.

So, thanks T & K for letting me exhale, sorry if I slobbered on you--but there was alot of force behind the breath.

I think it will be hard to have my sis pregnant soon. I will be completely happy for her, I have felt bad that it takes so much for them to get there. We are very close, I'm sure she will feel awkward with me at first too. She has a while before she can try, I figure it will probably happen around my due date. (it would figure) That would be a nice change of direction.

Thanks for the meditation of the day, very insightful.

Micheline (







)


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## Tan II

Hey Mich

I've got a friend Marcelle who I call Mich or Michy (useless bit of info !).

I often had to take "big breaths" to get through moments. It was my mantra !! "Big breath, big breath...". I still do sometimes.

I understand what you are saying about your sister. My sister too struggled to fall pregnant. She went all the way up to IVF. Which failed. Then miraculously, she was between IVF cycles, and she fell pregnant on her own. She has polycystic ovaries. Her daughter and Gabriel would have been a few months apart. Then when we were trying to fall pregnant after Gabriel, she was also. She expected to struggle, but fell in her first cycle. I was still waiting to fall pregnant.

It was really hard when she told me she was pregnant. I so badly wanted and needed to be pregnant after Gabriel. I was so happy for her, that it happened so quickly and easy. I was envious that it wasn't me.
It was awkward for both of us. I wanted to be interested and give her my support, although I didn't really want to hear anything . And she didn't want to throw it in my face. It was really hard.

My sister and I are really close. Living in different countries hasn't changed that at all. We have a good relationship, so we were actually able to talk about how we felt and be honest.
Try let your sister know how you feel, if u can. I'm sure she realises that it's hard for you. Maybe she doesn't know how to aproach the subject.

I fell pregnant with Jamie a few months later. Our boys are 5 months apart







It's so cool that there is a close age gap with them. They will be the same school year. I hope they grow up together and have a great bond.

It's strange to look at her daughter and imagine Gabriel the same age.

Got a busy weekend ahead of us. Going out for lunch today. DH is playing touch rugby in the park this afternoon.
Going out for brunch tomorrow - I promised to bake something. Got any ideas ?

What's your weekend like ? How's the mess ?

DS is not enjoying school at the moment and is giving his teacher a hard time. Actually, he's giving us a hard time now and then too. It's driving me mad. He can be so cheeky and defiant. Then he can the most amazing, kind, thoughtful child. I hope it's only a phase, and that it finishes soon.

Better go and see what Jamie is up to, Tayga has got Star Wars blaring on the tv, and get dh out of bed ! He's had a long enough sleep-in !

Today's quote ....
Trials give you strength, sorrows give understanding and wisdom.
- Chuck T. Falcon

Have a great day!
Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan-

My ds#3 and my sister's ds#2 are 6 mos apart. She loves that, as I have the older of the two and sent her all Will's hand-me-down clothes. (i was a bit of a clothes horse with Will)

I can only imagine the commitment required for assisted reproduction. I hope it works quickly for them. Again another thing...my sister and her DH got pregnant while waiting for their first IVF cycle, this unfortunately ended up being an ectopic pregnancy. She came through that okay, but fortunately was at a good hospital, her tube ruptured and she had internal bleeding.

It is Thanksgiving Weekend here, so I will be making a Turkey and Ham and all the other usual side dishes that go with this kind of dinner. I guess I better get a pumpkin pie on the go...forgot about that. The mess is not too bad. The drywall taper/mudder guys put the first layer of tape on, so no sanding yet. That will make this weekend a little nicer, not so dusty.

I am sorry Tayga is giving you a hard time. He sounds a bit like my Chris. One minute you are pulling your hair out, the next you want to cry with how sensitive/thoughtful/helpful he is being. Then he starts all over again, there are periods of crazy followed by much longer ones that are 'normal'. He is 7?? (is that right?) My oldest is 14, there's a little more cheek from him than I care for at times, all in all though, we have 3 great boys.

Do you think it is a stage for Tayga or a reaction to time of year, Gabriel's birthday and the anniversary of Gabriel's death? (I am sorry to have written that, I tried not to, but could not find a way around it)

Couple of recipes for you-

T. = Tablespoon (15ml) t.=teaspoon (5ml) c. = cup (250 ml)

*Brunch Pie*

3 T. Butter
2 cups frozen hasbrowns
salt,pepper
1/2 t. celery salt
3/4 c. sliced mushrooms
1/2 c. chopped red onion
1/2 c. chopped green pepper
Chopped ham or bacon
6 eggs (beaten)
2/3 c. milk
1 c. shredded chedder cheese
1 c. shredded marble cheese
sliced tomatoes

Melt butter & saute potatoes until browned and crispy, approximately 5 min. Sprinkle with salt, pepper & celery salt. Spread into a 9 inch pie plate or baking dish. Pour eggs in. Top with mushrooms, onion, green pepper, ham and cheese.

Bake @ 350 degrees F 40 min or until done (check the time on this, I realized after typing, there is no time listed on this recipe--it is one from my Mom, she loves this pie)

*Rhubarb Upside Down Cake*

3 T. butter or margarine ( to grease pan)
3/4 c. brown sugar lightly packed
2 c. rhubarb diced (apple slices or pineapple rings work too)

Cottage Pudding
1/3 c. shortening
3/4 c. white sugar
1 egg
1 t. vanilla extract
1 c. flour
3 t. baking powder
1/2 t. salt
3/4 c. milk

Preheat oven 350 Degrees F 8 inch pan
Beat first 4 ingredients. Blend/sift dry ingredients. Alternate dry ingredients and milk to the shortening mixture.

Lay fruit in bottom of pan. Sprinkle with br. sugar. Cover with Cottage Pudding batter. Bake 40 - 50 min.

I have many fond memories of that cake. It is too yummy for words. I have a really great recipe for oatmeal cookies too, I wasn't sure if that would fit the bill or not.

Have a great brunch. I will talk to you later... I will be off to swimming lessons for the 2 older boys in the a.m. and then to buy some doors for the new bedrooms. (whew, sounds exciting doesn't it!?)

Micheline


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

thinking of you mama


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## Tan II

Hi Mich

Happy Thanksgiving ! How was your dinner ? I love pumpkin pie ! Yum.

Thanks for the recipes. I have put them with my pile of recipes "to try" ! Landed up making choc chip muffins.

Tayga might be reacting to "the time of year". I don't think so. Never really thought about it. Btw, not upset about your reference to the time frame.
He is a great kid, just going through a "i hate school, my teacher" phase, and it makes him a bit angry.

We had a great weekend. Very busy ! Out fri night, sat lunch and brunch today. I love going out on the weekends or having people over. It's such fun.

Tayga is yelling for me. Better go and see what the problem is.







:

Enjoy the rest of your Thanksgiving weekend.

Tan


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## Tan II

Hey !

I thought I was doing so well, and on a roll. Today I don't feel like that.

I feel so down today. I can't put my finger on what or why, I just do.
I feel teary and flat.

Could I be a better person? Could I be a better mom? Could I be a better wife ? *sigh*. I know the answer. I know I am a good person, mother and wife, but I feel like I could be better.










It's so hard to explain to dh. Especially because he'll tell me that I am crazy.
It's not that I think I'm a bad person, mother, wife. I feel like I should be doing more - do I do enough? Could I be a better person, mother, wife?

Just feeling







:

I know I've got 2 big dates comng up soon. I try not think about it. Hard not to.

I'll just do my usual. Put on the "happy face" and put up my walls.

Keri how was your trip ? I hope you and dh had a great time.

Going to take my miserable self and fold washing.

Tan


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## Mammax4

My friend-









I am sorry it is 'one of those days' for you. Maybe it is catching, I had one on Saturday. Grocery shopping seems to be a trigger for me. It is one of the few times I am out where there are lots of babies and pregnant bellies. I used to love shopping, now I go and get it done as fast as possible so I can get home.

The down side to this great connection is that we are not IRL 'there' for each other. I would love to be able to come and take you for a walk or go for a coffee and sit somewhere and really talk. I suppose the reality is that IRL, we wouldn't know near the same about each other. There are times that I have thought it would be really great just to be able to say thank you or give you (both) a hug. Sometimes sitting here just doesn't seem like enough.

Tan, You are an amazing woman. You have a life experience that has not broken you or your marriage. You are strong, even when you feel weak or lost, somewhere, somehow you make it through another minute, another situation, another day. A lesser person could not do this. You have shown strength in the face of immeasurable heartache and pain. You have been selfless at a time when doing so meant saying goodbye to your son. You have been compassionate when you could have been silent. You are a true friend, a kind soul and a our kindred spirit.

You are enough my friend, in fact you are so much more. A hard part of accepting that you are enough is that you can not blame yourself for things....If only I would have done more/been more.... It is so easy to put a target on our backs.

We are so much more than the targets on our backs.

I feel for you today my sister. Know that the hands you feel helping to hold you up are ours. We won't let go, no matter what, we are here for you.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi Micheline

Thank you for your words and hugs. They are very comforting.

It's almost a relief to have someone say "it's ok. You feel lousy, but it's ok, and you're ok".

Thanks for providing the safety and comfort to allow me to express how I feel. Then offering such kind words.

I feel better today. Not 100%, but not as miserable as yesterday. I love being a full time mom, but sometimes I think I have too much time on my hands. Too much time to think, too much time to get miserable.
I suppose I want to feel needed and useful, not only the person who keeps the house clean and does the washing and cooks the food.

I agree with you, that if we were to meet face to face, we wouldn't be as open and honest with eachother.
We may not see each other to give comfort, but your kindness and warmth come through your words. I feel your hugs. I feel your comfort. You give me more with your words, than some of my frinds give me being face to face.

I understand what you are saying about pregnant bellies. I felt that too before I fell pregnant with Jamie. Even though I have had another pregnancy since Gabriel, I still feel sad when I see a pregnant tummy.
I'm sorry it hurts so much.

Going to put some groovy music on and do some exercise! Lift my spirits (and bum !) up









Thank you for being there.
Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan,

You're not okay....you're a raging lunatic!









Would you mind to do a little exercising for me too? My butt could use a lift....do you have anything in a large crane for heavy lifting?

On a serious note.... you said you want to feel needed and useful. I know that you are (needed and useful) just from talking to you, but I know what you mean. Sometimes it is nice to be outside of the Mom and Wife roles and appreciated for what you--the individual-- can 'bring to the table'. To be needed for your skills, intelligence, experience, compassion...
I am surrounded by children all day, to use my brain for something or heck, having an adult conversation is no small thing!

What about volunteering somewhere. Visiting at care facilities (old folks homes--incase they are called something else) the elderly people would LOve Jamie. (Tayga too, but he will be in school) I have been thinking about some kind of something for pregnancy and birth loss at the hospital. It is not something they promote having support groups or information about. It's more like let's not use 'the words' and get her out of here. (I almost felt like they didn't know how to 'handle' me--and I was not emotional there. What would it be like for someone who was demonstrative in their sadness?) That is just me though, it is not for everyone. I understand that. I know I am not ready to head down the organizing a support group/program path yet, but I am thinking about it.

I think for me, knowing that I will not be pregnant again, makes this loss harder. I would not be replacing this baby (as there is only one chance for any person to be born) but would have an opportunity to 'redeem' myself (in my mind) and that option is not there. Somedays it bothers me a little less than others, though mostly it stays in my head. (irritating the heck out of me) I have alot of self blame for the loss of this pregnancy. I'm sure that happens. I *know* intellecually I did nothing wrong, but it was my body that it happened in.

I think it is also the kind of person I am. I live for kids, love being pregnant and do not find childbirth too much with the end result being what it is. I have made a real journey from our first child too and am a little sad that all that is now over. My journey was from hospital birth with interventions to our last being a homebirth with a midwife. Beyond where the deliveries took place, my inner changes were drastic. My believe in myself and my abilities I suppose is ultimately what has been shaken by this loss. I guess I have identified myself more by what I can do/have done, than who I am.

Anyway, to avoid that slippery slope that gets too steep at times like this...I will sign off now before that darkness comes too completely.

I too have laundry to fold, and wash and put away. Wouldn't it be nice to have a laundry fairy!

Talk to you later

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hey Mich

You are right !! I am a "Raging Lunatic ", and proud of it !!!

You hit the nail on the head about being needed. I have been thinking about doing some charity work or volunteering. I phoned the "Sids for Kids" organisation to offer my time. I didn't doing anything from admin to ... whatever. The woman who I spoke to felt that it wouldn't be appropriate if I came with Jamie. I might upset people there. Oh well, I tried.

I was having a bad moment when I typed that. I know I have to organise my time properly, and my head !
I think being a stay-at-home mom is a real privilege. I am lucky I can stay with Jamie until he goes to school one day.
I really do enjoy being at home. I do my thing in-between all the housework. Some decoupage, some scrap booking, baking, reading !!! Don't forget meeting friends for coffee !!

It's nice to know you are useful/needed or at least get the praise that one does in a job. Expecially when it's a job well done. Although I shouldn't complain because dh will often say "thanks for dinner, that was delicious".

I'm just feeling a little sorry for myself at the moment.

I hear what you are saying about not being pregnant. I understand now, you are not finished being pregnant in your head. But your body is. I would imagine that is very frustrating.

I live for my children and my dh too. Being a Mom and wife is who I am. I know some moms enjoy the balance of working. My sister in law needed to go to work to keep her sanity. I am happy not to. To be the mom who does stuff at school or bakes muffins for the lunchbox etc.

I would PG love to have another baby. My dh says 2 is enough. I say 4 !!! I am happy to reach a compromise and have 3 (which will really be 4).
I don't feel finished having babies yet. So I am imagining how I would feel if I was you. Devistated. Angry with the powers that be, frustrated with things that are out of my control.

I was born to have babies ! I have quick, relatively easy labours. I pop them out drug free too !! The first time was becasue there was no time for any drugs. There after, it was by choice.

I hope I am not taking you down a path you don't want to go. I would hate to upset you.

DH & I have our 10 year anniversary coming up in Jan !!! I'm not sure who needs the medal more ! Ha ha !
Anyway, I recently starting scrapbooking. I thought it would be a great idea if I gave him a scrapbook of our first 10 years. So I have been going through photo albums and collecting pics and bits and pieces to use.
Got any ideas to share ? I'm new at this, so I have been checking out websites and magazines for ideas and ways of putting the pages together. I can't wait for it to be finished. I'm so excited for it !!

Got to go and give Mr Jamie dinner and a bath. Then feed the rest of the crew !

Cactch ya later
Tan


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## Mammax4

Hi Tan,

I am shaking my head right now...did you know that Jamie would be the ONly child for one of those families that lost their children to S.I.D.S? You know they for sure wouldn't see one around every corner. I don't mean to be insensitive, but come on... It is a fact of life that there are children/babies around all over the place. How easy is it to find people to volunteer their time to be with parents that have lost a child... LEt alone one that has experienced the loss of a child... how much more you could connect with someone than another person without personal experience. Geesh, sometimes I don't get it. I suppose it would be necessary to dangle Jamie, like a carrot, under all these families noses when they came in. There couldn't possibly be a place where he wouldn't be 'dangled'. And heaven knows these families with losses for sure don't have an older child that is with them each and every day. Sometimes peoples protective mechanisms border on ridiculous.

Now that I am finished my rant for the day...that was pretty good...I didn't know I had that in me. (I know the rant potential is there, but didn't realize that would get me going)

I agree it would be nice for the efforts around the house to be acknowledged, even if only once in a while. The house (unfortunately) does not clean itself, nor does the laundry fairy come or the food cook itself. At times I have thought I should stop doing things to see what they do. It would drive me crazy though, so I keep on truckin'. I have however given the older boys their own lunch making duty. I stopped making DH's lunch after Chris was born. At that time, we thought we were done having babies and I told DH I was going to focus on the babe and not suffer (so much) from SuperMom syndrome. When Dan was 3weeks old, I was nursing him as I was making DH's lunch. I was not going to do that again. Of course, I make sure he has leftovers or supplies in the cupboard to put something together, but it is him not me that does it. (I'm such a slacker!!)

5....10....15 That's us Keri, Tan and me. (just call me Granny) We celebrated our 15th Anniversary in August. Sometimes I wonder where the time went. In the blink of an eye, and yet I can't really remember a time when DH and I were not together.

Scrapbooking is something I have no experience in. I love how it looks, would love to start, but don't know if I could manage it. I don't know if my brain works in the right way to be successful at scrapbooking. I was freaked out at having to put the wood floor together...the pieces have to be placed randomly and not look like there is a pattern. I think I would have a tendency to try too hard with scrapbooking and it would look like I had tried too hard. One day maybe I will give it a go. I know I have looked at the supplies and wanted to buy some, there are some really cool things for scrapbooking.

Here is the recipe I mentioned before... be careful... they are very addictive!

Oh-So-Good Chewy Oatmeal Cookies
Here's a healthy, energy-packed cookie that's perfect to snack on when you're feeling low.

Cooking Time: 12 minutes
Makes: 30 cookies

1 cup butter, softened
1 cup packed golden brown sugar
1/2 cup white sugar
2 eggs
2 tsp. vanilla extract
2 tsp. cinnamon
1 tsp. salt
1/2 tsp. baking soda
1 1/4 cups flour
3 cups quick-cooking oats
1/2 cup raisins
1/3 cup raw sunflower seeds and pecan pieces

Method
Preheat oven to 350 degrees F. Beat butter and sugars until light, and then beat in eggs one at a time. Mix vanilla, cinnamon, salt and baking soda. Add remaining ingredients and mix until just combined. Drop spoonfuls about 2 Tbsp. in size onto ungreased cookie sheets. Bake 12 min.

I don't put the raisins or seeds/nuts in my cookies, but I am sure they are delicious with them too.

Have a great day you Raging Lunatics.

Keri, I hope you had a wonderful time with your DH.

Talk soon,

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hey Mich

Thanks for the recipe. It looks yummy ! Will check I have the ingredients and make it. Being a "on the spur of the moment"baker, I'm sure I have all the ingredients !

I agree with you with Sids - me wanting to give my time and being turned away. I was so annoyed. On the one hand I understand their point of view. On the other ... there are babies and kids in the world. IT was a bit of a "whatever".

I have woken up with a better attitude today !
Jamie woke up at 6.00am and didn't go back to sleep after his feed. So it's 7.21am, we're rocking ! I feel on top of things today, and ready for the world ! "Look out world, here I come" !

Going to get Tayga up and out of bed and ready for school. Looks like we are so on time today. Yay ! No rushing.

Catch ya later
Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan,

I can 'hear' you are back on top and full of positive energy. All that and it's only 7:30 in the morning where you are. Me, well it's almost 3:00pm Tuesday and I need a nap. Too much turkey hangover maybe. I did have a pumpkin tart for breakfast this morning...it couldn't be that. There was no whipped cream on it, so no sugar crash.

Should I tell you now that I had a girlfriend that called me 'Mishy-mushy-face'? I thought it was funny you called your friend Michy. My cousin used to call me 'Mich the fish that lives in a dish'. He was little when he started that...perhaps too much Dr. Seuss??

I have been hustling my boys out to catch their buses in the am for school. That is such a bad way to start the day. I can't seem to find the right way to motivate them to get movin' in the mornin'. If I wake them up early, they dawdle and are still running out the door. Maybe I should wake them up late!

Hope you and Jamie have a great day today! What grade is Tayga in?

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

It's been a few hours since we last chatted !! Not only was Tayga ready on time, we walked to school !!! He rode his bike and I pushed the pram. His school is approx 2.5 km away. So it's a great walk. There and back (if I take the long way home) is approx 6 km. It was a gorgeous morning. Hot already when we left (20 degrees). Today is meant to be hot, same for tomorrow. Summer is definately on the way.

Jamie fell asleep in thr pram on the way home. Once he woke up, off to the shops we went ! I had some things I needed to return. Popped into my fav. clothes shop, and bought a cute t-shirt too. Why not ! DH has his addiction for guitars and music, I buy clothes









Now Jamie is having another nap before it's school pick-up. I am having a bite of lunch (last night's left-overs). Have put a load of washing in the machine. So I'm on track.

I think I might even laze on the couch and ...... read. Oh my god, I'm doing something for me !!









I have the same issue with Tayga in the morning. It drives me mad. He dawdles, and takes his time and is so s-l-o-w. I feel like all I do is nag.
Tayga is in Grade 1. He is nearly finished grade 1. Our school year begins in Jauary, not like you (I think u start in Sept?).
What grades are your kids in ?

Jamie is not interested in going to sleep. I'll give him another 5 minutes. He needs to have an afternoon sleep. Going to my in-laws for dinner. Yay (NOT) !

Better go and see what the prob is.

Hope you had a good night ! Chat later.

Tan


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## Mammax4

Hey back! Tan

Yes, our school starts in Sept. and goes until the end of June. Dan is in Gr. 9, (high school), Chris is in Gr. 6 (middle school) and I get 1 more year with Will at home. If your school starts in January, do you get November and December off? You are heading into your summer as we get into winter. It rains here (lots) and once in a while it will snow.
(I LOve that)

Last Feb. we went up to a mountain with some friends and the boys all learned to snowboard. Even Will!!! I think he had the best success of them all (size for distance that is) DH skiied and I was a snow-momma. I would smash into a tree or something equally hazardous to my health if I was on slippery things on the snow.

The early morning nag is such a bad way to start the day. There are times (days or weeks) when it feels like that is all I do. My BIL (DH's bro) is living with us right now and he has taken on some of the 'come-on, come-on, let's-go' stuff. It is nice to not be the sole voice o' nag. DH leaves for work at 6:30am, so he can't participate in the nag-o-rama. DH is actually my alarm clock, he wakes me up to kiss me goodbye.

I hope dinner at the in-laws (or out-laws as the case may be) went alright. I don't get those anymore as both DH's parents have passed away. My FIL passed away almost 11 years ago. (the month after Chris turned 1) My MIL passed away 4 years ago (she new about Will, but died before he was born) If you like ghost-y stories, I can tell you a few odd things that have happened in the last while. I will wait for your reply(s).

I can't remember when Will last napped. It was a L-O-N-G time ago, that's for sure. Dan was my only two naps a day for a long time boy. I think both Chris and Will gave up one nap by 1 and the second probably by 18 mos. (waaaa)

So, you exercised and walked...you are shaming me. I need to get moving on that... I feel much better when I am exercising. Speaking of exercising... my BIL is getting the icecream out of the freezer, I am gonna go have some. Nothing like the feel of cellulite forming to end your day.

Have a great day...I am guessing you are soon on your way to get Tayga from school. (it's 10pm here) Enjoy supper...just keep swimming.....

I keep meaning to ask, how do you pronounce Tayga? And what does it mean?

Micheline







:


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

Our summer holidays are Dec - Jan, starting school the end of Jan.

Brrrr snow. I'm not a winter person. My brain shuts down when I'm cold. I am a summer girl ! Although some days are sooo hot in summer. You don't know where to put yourself.

Ghost-y stories freak me out, but I love to hear them. I have also had some experiences. When I was younger (that makes me sound so old), I was really into spirits and stuff. Was told that I have a connection with the "other side". I tried to develop it, but got too scared.

Dinner at in-laws was a waste of time ! As dh put it, at least I didn't have to cook tonight !

Tayga is pronounced as you spell it Tay - Ga.
I wanted to name my first child after my dad. His name was Jonathan Tager. Tayga's second name is Jay. I don't think it has a meaning, because I changed the spelling. It was originally a family surname.
It has special meaning to me, being my dad's second name.

After I picked Tayga up from school, we got ice-cream and went to have a play at a nearby park for a while. It was fun.

Lol about the snow boarding !

All in all it was a GREAT day today. Yippee









I'm having friends over for dinner on friday night. Trying to decide what to make !

Hope u have a good day. How are you doing ?

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hello, lunatics, I missed you both!

And I missed so much! Downs and ups and holidays.....

Happy belated Thanksgiving, Mich! It is one of my favorite holidays, I'm already looking forward to ours. Hubby and I are talking about hosting again, as we seem to be the only ones set up for big groups. We had 17 last year, which was crazy. Of course, I was pg at the time and only wanted to lay down in the middle of the kitchen to nap. I want a do-over! Tan, is there a corresponding holiday in South Africa or Australia?

There is so much I want to talk about!

Tan, you are needed and useful to me, no cooking or cleaning necessary! Aren't YOU both the laundry fairy? That's so funny you were both talking about her, I've been her for years! Husband: Why don't you come sit down for a minute? Me: The laundry fairy doesn't get breaks! This has been an ongoing conversation, for the 5 years of marriage. DH helps much more now than he used to, yay!

(Sidenote: please teach your boys to do laundry, my DH learned how by reading the lid of the washing machine when he was in basic training! He was a bit unprepared for real life, as his mommy had waited on him hand and foot. She has since realized what she did, and apologized to me







)

Hmm. Thinking back to when I hated school, it was usually subject matter I didn't understand (long division still makes me break out in a cold sweat), troubles with friends, or the teacher was being crabby. I had the same teacher for 6 years, in a one-room schoolhouse on the prairie. Okay, it isn't really the prairie, but that sounded good! Does Tayga give you any info about what he hates about school? Poor guy.

Oh my gosh, is he putting up his own walls, not talking about what upsets him? Don't mean to tread there, if you don't want me to. It just crossed my mind.

Oh, Mich, you would love it here in the winter! We are always at the mercy of Canada or Mexico. If Canada wins, we have LOTS of snow. A couple of years ago, it was too deep for our dog to go in the yard (he's 70 LBS, not a small woofer) so we had to shovel a path through the yard so he could stretch his legs and take care of business! He would go into the path, and we couldn't see him it was so deep.

Our trip was good, but we kept talking about how it would have been a great trip to take kids on. Well, someday. We toured the 4th longest cave in the world (our guide will be vacationing in Australia to go caving next month), went to Mount Rushmore twice, toured through state and national parks. Lots of bison, prairie dogs, mule deer, pronghorn, a couple of mountain goats and a family of bighorn sheep---none of which we see around here! We laughed a lot, and just did what we wanted. It was nice to spend time like that with the hubby.

Our anniversary is always tinged with sadness for me, as we were surrounded by losses in 2001, and almost called the wedding off until a later date. It was also my maternal grandparents 70th and paternal grandparents 71st anniversary on the same date (this year). I didn't fully realize how getting married on that date would make the anniversaries that much more sentimental....

I see now how this is an ongoing life lesson, happy blended with sad. Sometimes I choose it, and sometimes it is handed to me.

The meditation for Saturday was so apt, I couldn't wait to share it with you!

She never told her love,
but let concealment, like a worm i' the bud,
Feed on her damask cheek: she pin'd in thought,
And with a green and yellow melancholy,
She sat like patience on a monument,
Smiling at grief.
--William Shakespeare

That is us, isn't it? Putting up the wall, pasting on the happy face, while the grief eats at us. I know it is better for us now, after relieving some of the pressure here (it was a long breath you'd been holding, Mich, us too.) The meditation went on to talk about why we hide it from others, what are we hoping to spare them or ourselves? For me, I don't want to appear weak or unstable, and I don't want other people to be uncomfortable around me. So I keep myself in some misery. Maybe I'll start being more honest when people ask how I am. Baby steps.

And yesterday's meditation, when I was in college I had this quote on my bulletin board, just because I thought it was beautiful. Now I can relate to the accuracy of the description. It's strange I didn't recall it before:

In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God. --Aeschylus

This is where we are, or at least where I have been. It's kinda dark, but I know we all relate, even if we are doing better now.

Mich, I wanted to point out something else....it may not have been your body that let go of your pregnancy, maybe the baby decided his/her own fate. Those tiny little creatures have some power of their own in the process.

And I would like to hear the ghost-y stories. I've never seen a ghost, but I have a friend who does. When we bought this house, there is one room that creeps me out. My friend wouldn't set foot in there, and I had not told her about my own feelings. Some sort of energy is left there. A lot of times I announce myself before I walk in the room....yes, I am weird!

Tan, I love the story behind Tayga's name, that is really neat.

Okay, it has been a full blown book today. Fair warning, in a week I will be leaving out of town again, for probably 10 days (work related trip to West Virginia, this is a big travel year). Just imagine the tome I will write when I get back from that!

Later, Lunatics!

Grateful-to-be-back-here-Keri


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## Mammax4

Keri- Welcome Back! Imagine what a 10 day catch up will be like!

Tan- I think we should strive for novel entries while she is gone...that'll teach her!









Keri, I want to live where you did when you went to school! My Dad grew up in Manitoba and he did go to a one room school house in the prairie. For a while, his much older cousin was his teacher. She thought he was a real rascal. He probably was.

In 1996, we had such a big snow storm, the city basically shut down for 4 or 5 days. We are not prepared for lots of snow anyways, but this was C-R-A-Z-Y snow. I'm sure we had about 5-6 feet. It brought out both the good and bad in people. There were guys with front end loaders and snowmobiles taking labouring women to the hospital. Corner store owners were charging $6.00 for a loaf of bread. Both DH and I were sick with the flu, never before or since...talk about timing. I love how the snow makes the trees and streets look so beautiful. That is of course until it starts to melt, then it is this dirty slush at the side of the road.

Now, on to the ghost-y stories...

We have several paintings from DH's parents house. We got these after his Mom passed away. There is a lovely Iris watercolour that DH's Mom had done for herself shortly before she died. We hang that in our kitchen. We have noticed that when DH's sister comes to stay with us over Christmas, this picture hangs off centre. You can fix it, but it will just go back to crooked again. When SIL is not here, it hangs straight. Since DH's brother has been living with us, this picture has hung crooked the whole time. We have taken the Iris picture down, as we don't want it to be damaged with all the reno stuff going on. After we took the Iris picture down, I noticed that two oil paintings we have (from IL's house) are now hanging crooked. They had never been crooked before we took the Iris down. They are not in an area that is being reno'd. I believe this is MIL making herself known to us. I think she is showing her thanks at us sticking together. As the tipping only happens when one of DH's siblings are here, it seems she is commenting on that. There was alot of negativity going on before MIL died, certainly after the bickering over stuff was ridiculous. We didn't get involved in that.

I had my own experience with my maternal grandmother and aunt going through my mom's house..."can I have this?" I was not quite 10years old, my mom just died and you want stuff? My step mom moved into that house with us after she married my Dad. My step mom and I often heard my mom walking upstairs. My sister would be in bed and you would hear my mom walk from her bedroom down the hall, stop at my sister's bedroom (checking on her?) and then you would hear her continue on to my bedroom and stop again.

I was sitting in the new space with BIL two weeks ago. I had made some lunch and we were sitting there talking about the reno and what was next to do etc. I heard someone start walking up the ladder that went from the ground to the roof. I went to see if it was the roofer or the electrician. There was no one there. As I am standing there telling BIL there is no one there, when the door to our deck (just beside where the ladder was) swung open. It had been shut, there was no wind. I think it was FIL coming to see how the job was going. FIL would have been in there 'like a dirty shirt' if he was still alive. At the beginning of April 96, FIL took DH's dresser and refinished it. FIL passed away, from cancer, at the end of May 96. We had one day less than a month from the time he was diagnosed until he died.

FIL was around us alot shortly after he died. When DH and I would be having conversations, about FIL especially, you could feel he was there. I remember one time in particular, we were sitting on the stairs inside and having a really deep talk. DH had/has issues with not meeting FIL's expectations (being a failure) not being the gung-ho lots of hours climbing the corporate ladder guy. Anyway, you could feel his Dad there, the air was different--like it was heavy and it was different. You were almost more sensitive to the air.

Our old house had some ?? there. The downstairs was...heavy, for lack of a better way to describe it. I didn't like being out in the backyard when it was dark too...it was creepy. I am not afraid of the dark and we had neighbors on all sides of us, so there was no 'risk' but it felt bad to be out there. My sister hated to go downstairs at our old house. This house has a tonne of positive energy in it.

I have more stories, but that will do (for now...) [insert evil cackle here]

Both sets of your Grandparents were married on the same day!?! Crazy! My sister and her husband were born on the same day, one year apart. It is interesting when things like that happen.

Tan, I have a really yummy appetizer, I will get the recipe for you later today. It is a hot cheese dip, you bake it in a sourdough round and eat it with bread pieces and tortilla chips. It is very tasty.

Keri, I am glad to hear you and your DH had such a great time.

Have a great day Lunatics,

Micheline









reno update: drywall taping/mudding will not be finished until Wed Next week now. Yeah!...an extended period of dust and mess. At least we will be finished in time for Will's b-day.


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## Tan II

Hi Lunatics !!

Welcome back Keri. Sounds like you had a great time. It's nice to hear you and dh did lots of laughing together.

As far as I know, there isn't a corresponding holiday for Thanksgiving here or South Africa. As far as Jewish holidays go, we do have something similar.

Tayga told me he hates his teacher. She has been hard on him this year. He is the class clown. So she is strict with him becasue he needs it, and because I think he has bugged her so much that she has had enough of him.
It came out last week that he feels that. He told another teacher, and she told his teacher. So she has now said she will ease up on him and be more positive towards him.
This woman has been teaching for 30 years. Surely Tayga is not the first child to play class clown, or give her a hard time. I'll admit, he can definitely be trying some days. He is very clever and loves to negotiate. Very irritating when you want him to listen to a simple instruction and follow it.
Anyway .... it's all a learning curve for him and me. He has to learn that there are rules at school that need to be followed. Just like anything in life.
I need to learn to choose my battles, and not fight over everything with him. Not worth it.

As far as him putting up walls. Well, I suppose I'm not a good role model. I'm working on it.

DH definitely thinks we have a bunch of fairies living in our house. Don't u know, they do the washing, cooking, cleaning etc and all I do is go for coffee and relax the whole day.
I shouldn't complain too much because he does actually help around the house when I ask him. (I don't like to ask, I want him to just do it of his own accord. But he's male = doesn't think !).
Living in Sputh Africa we were very spoilt. We had live-in help always. So we really never had to do a thing. (Not even make our bed !! How lazy is that !). So coming to live in Australia with no help was a huge culture shock !!! Don't worry girls, I am now an ace housekeeper !! I think I might even do a better job







I've been living here for nealy 5 years, and I still don't have a cleaner to come in. I suppose it would be nice, but I know I can do it myself and that I have the time (not working).
So yes, we have fairies here too !

My sister sent me this email yesterday. The subject is "wise words"...

Sometimes we wonder, "What did I do to deserve this?" or "Why did God have to do this to me?" Here is a wonderful explanation! A daughter is telling her Mother how everything is going wrong, she's failing algebra, her boyfriend broke up with her and her best friend is moving away.
Meanwhile, her Mother is baking a cake and asks her daughter if she would like a snack, and the daughter says, "Absolutely Mom, I love your cake."
"Here, have some cooking oil," her Mother offers. "Yuck" says her daughter.
"How about a couple raw eggs?" "Gross, Mom!"
"Would you like some flour then? Or maybe baking soda?" "Mom, those are all yucky!"
To which the mother replies: "Yes, all those things seem bad all by themselves. But when they are put together in the right way, they make a wonderfully delicious cake!
God works the same way. Many times we wonder why He would let us go through such bad and difficult times. But God knows that when He puts these things all in His order, they always work for good! We just have to trust Him and, eventually, they will all make something wonderful!

I believe it - even after all the loss we have suffered.

Mish, thanks for the ghost-y stories. Wow, I'm sure it makes you think when all those things happen. Do u get scared when you "feel" them, or do u feel comfort ? Sometimes it can be scary, especially if it's not a good vibe.

My sister had planned to come and visit us. Then my mom died 2 weeks before she was due to leave. She decided to still come. So we could be together. We also organised for my brother to come too (he is 11 years younger than me, 9 yrs younger than my sister. So he's our "baby, baby brother " !!). My sister got here a few days after Gabriel died (that's another story).
Anyway, it was evening, my sister was already here, and my brother had just arrived. We were all sitting together, it was late at night. The front door bell rang. It was late and we were not expecting anyone. We opened the door, and there was no-one there. It was like my mom was letting us know she was there with us together.

I just remembered when my mom died, and it was her funeral, with the time difference it was midnight here. As she was being buried (i worked out), my clock radio next to my bed switched on.

I have so many stories, but I'll share one last one with you or I'll be here forever.
Soon after my mom died I had a dream. Although I still don't think it was a dream. I feel like it happened.
You know when you look in on a sleeping child, how you peer over them - sometimes get a smile on your face and touch their face ?
Well one night I had the strangest sensation as I woke. My mom had been standing next to the side of my bed, peering at me with a loving smile. Stroking my face. Like she had come to say goodbye, she was leaving.
It was so real. I didn't feel frightened. It was comforting.
As I type this, I can't help feel such a pang of sadness and loss.

What date is Will's b-day ? How old will he be?

Yes, I know I quickly changed the subject !

Btw, wearing the new t-shirt (singlet) today !! I love it ! So funky. Got lots of hearts all over it. Sounds childish, but it's not.

It's going to be another HOT day.







If this is spring, what's summer going to be like ???

Meant to be meeting my pseudo mother's group this morning. All their babies are older than Jamie, so we're at different levels. Some of the girls are painful ! I'm meant to be there in 20 minutes, and Jamie is still sleeping. Once he wakes (which might be soon, might not !), we'll go. Better go and pack some luch for him. So when lunchtime comes, he's got food !

Got any dessert ideas ?

Hey, I wrote a novel too !!

Catch up with you later.
Tan


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## Mammax4

Bonsoir my fellow Lunatics.

I just got in from puppy class. Harmony has only one more left. All three boys came this time. Will was really excited to go, I didn't want to dampen that as he likes Harmony, especially from afar.

Will was born (in our bedroom at home) Nov. 17/02. He will be 4 in a month. (!?!) I have to get busy making his pinata soon. I am not sure what it will be, probably a Pokemon. He is quite 'into' Pokemon at the moment. Pokemon was big when Dan and Chris were 7 & 5. Will has their Pokemon characters and plays with them all the time. Incase Pokemon is not big where you both are, Pokemon is Japanese animation shows where the human characters are trainers and they 'battle' their Pokemon for more Pokemon and experience. (my favorite is Eeve - pronounced Evie)

I am not usually bothered by the ghost-y stuff. I do believe we are open to a different 'level' when we are younger and as we grow and learn we shut that part off. Some people don't, but most do. I don't think it is just coincidence, it happens too often and to lots of people. I think you have to be open to notice, as it may be subtle--but it can be obvious too. We have a Winnie the pooh snow globe that was from MIL's house, it has gone off at odd times without anyone winding it or being close.

Would wishing you Happy Sukkos be appropriate? I must admit to being intrigued by the Torah. Not that it is my business, and tell me to nevermind (I won't be offended) but how do you handle the marketing of the Christmas season? I find it offensively commercial, but do practice the pagan ritual of tree decorating. (I use any/all excuses to decorate my house...I'm a bit kooky like that.)

We had a not so great teacher for Dan in Grade 1. She liked to give out lines as punishment for whatever struck her fancy. These children had barely grasped the basics of printing and she was punishing them using lines. Not something I agreed with at all. She was also not a nurturing type, I know they won't all be and the kids need to be able to deal with that but....come on, they were 5 and 6 years old. At the end of the year, there were lots of kids that didn't want to participate in any kind of thank you for her. They were worried that it wouldn't be good enough for her.

I went to a seminar called 'Boy Smarts' last year. It was really quite good. I bought the book I was so inspired. It explains alot of things and gives ideas on how to connect with your boy. "Stand still and look at me" being one of the worst ways to try to talk to a boy.

Live-in help....you really did have a laundry fairy!!! And you left her behind?

I enjoyed the 'wise words'...it is kind of like the making lemonade out of a bunch of lemons only W-A-Y better. It is true, you do need to be able to step back and see 'the big picture' in order to appreciate lifes experiences. I have a baby sister 4 years younger than me and my 'babiest' sister is 12 years younger. (that is how I refer to them, not in front of the youngest)

I have no doubt that you were not dreaming your Mom, what an amazing gift. Peace in a time of sadness.
I feel awed by that.

My reiki girlfriend called me today. She started the conversation with,"You must be getting so huge"... I hadn't told her yet as I knew it would be a difficult conversation. I have been thinking about her alot lately and am glad she called. We have one of those _lead to one another_ relationships. I met her DH when I first took the Palliative Care training course--he works at that hospital. We chatted for years, he wanted me to meet his wife as he thought we would have alot in common. One day, finally, after a meeting he told me she was outside in their van. I went out to meet her and lo and behold if it wasn't a Mom I had met at school and really connected with. Funny hey. It doesn't matter how much time goes by from one visit/talk to another, it is like it was yesterday. And...I didn't cry!!! almost did once though when she told me I should read her journals from when she had miscarried. She told me I would probably find that they reflected the person I used to be.

I must go, I am getting up early for that walk I was supposed to have last week. 5:45am will come early!

Talk later

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

Thanks for the sukkos wishes. Xmas doesn't bother me at all. It actually looks like it is such fun ! Tree decorating etc. We celebrate enough jewish holidays for me not to be envious of all the getting together and food part of it !
I am happy for xmas to be over, just so the shops will stop playing all the xmas music ! You know you have heard it enough times when you start singing the carols (and u r jewish !!).
Last year Tayga was more aware of xmas, and that we don't celebrate. He kept on saying "I wish we celebrated xmas so I can get presents". (Like he doesn't get enough during the year. My deprived child !)

I agree with you about being more open to "what's out there" when u r younger. I do try and keep an open mind, but in the same breath, it scares me.
One night I woke up with a terrible fright. All I remember is pointing to a spot in my room saying to dh "there's a woman standing over there". I can recall seeing her, but felt afraid. Not because she was threatening, but because it made me afraid to have felt the connection.

I do know Pokemon. Tayga was never really into it all, so I'm not familiar with all the characters.

Got to go and help dh tidy the house for our guests tomorrow night. How does it get so messy so quickly ?

Enjoy your walk









Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hello, fellow members of the RL Club!

I'm trying to repent for the very long post yesterday, so I'll TRY to be more concise!

While I am a Christian, I abhor the blatant consumerism and commercialism of Christmas. Are you both still averting your eyes when you see a pregnant woman? Yeah, I still do that. And I do that to the Christmas stuff in stores, until after Thanksgiving (end of Nov.). Lalalalala, I can't see it!

I love the decorations, scents, music (a lot of jazzier, non-traditional stuff). It is my goal this year to spend very little money on gifts, and I'd love to be in my pj's for the holiday, but the darn families won't allow me to do what I want! But of course, Christmas last year I was still a hormonal disaster from m/c #2, very moody and sad. Not fun. Just wanted the new year to come, a fresh slate.

My m/c's have tentacles that reach through my entire life, as you can see.

My poor old dog just started to howl. He was in dire need of a tummy rub. I want to be a dog! Howl, and someone comes running to comfort me.

Yes, there are some less-than-nice teachers out there. My brother had some serious clashes with our teacher at the one-room, and the teacher actually popped him across the face a couple of times. My parents always backed the teacher (brother's behavior was definitely out of line, very rude and lippy.) Eventually he modified his own behavior to get the teacher off his back. But John was much older at that point, maybe 13. I guess Tayga is old enough to understand cause and effect, but he's probably young to have that kind of self control. 7 or 8 hours is a long time for adults, much less a 7 year old!

The one-room schoolhouse was a really unique experience, particularly as most of them have closed in the last 2 decades. It was very...pure, untainted. We had to get along with the other kids, the older kids helped us, we helped the younger kids, we got to move through subjects at our own pace, if we were done with our work we could grab a library book...it was good.

I'm glad you are both getting together with friends and being social. It helps to actually get back out there in the world. I would do that, if I had time!

Easy dessert recipe:
In a greased 8x8 pan, combine
1 can of cherry pie filling
1 can of crushed pineapple

Over the top of the fruit, layer 1 box yellow cake mix, dry.
Drizzle 1 melted stick of butter over the top.
Sprinkle pecans over the top.

Bake in a moderate oven until top browns slightly (I've never seen the recipe in print, maybe 25 minutes?)

Your ghosty stories are interesting. I have no doubt there is more going on there than what we understand.

I don't have a ghost story (other than the creepy room in my basement, which I know will creep me out less if I brick up the dumbwaiter shaft). But when I had my first m/c, my Granddad was still alive. He was in a nursing home, and my Mom told him why I hadn't been to visit. He asked about me every day until I was back to visit him. This, from a man who couldn't remember that my Mom was out there every day ('no, I haven't seen her'), who couldn't remember if it was breakfast or suppertime, who couldn't remember who brought him flowers or cookies. God bless him, he remembered to ask about me for about 7 consecutive days. Not ghosty, but very strange given the circumstances. Everyone else avoided me, Granddad asked about me.

I really enjoyed 'wise words'. That's a really healthy paradigm shift.

Take care, my friends. I have to go join the world, even though I'd rather stay here!

Keri


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## Mammax4

Good morning!

I did it...I was up at 5:30 to go for a walk with my neighbor. It was pitch black, we will have to be better prepared and bring a flashlight next time. I hope that this will help to make me tired at a reasonable bedtime. Losing the insomnia would be a good thing.

I am a Christian as well, baptised Anglican and confirmed Lutheran. A bit mixed up, but the change came after my Dad remarried. I must admit, I do love the tree all lit up with the lights in the room turned out. I would like to know what Santa has to do with Jesus though, I've never figured that out. It seems like a mish-mosh of things put together have become the Christmas celebration.

Keri, what is your favorite Christmas cd? We bought a few new ones last year. Barenaked for the Holidays (Barenaked Ladies--the musical group),
Dianna Krall, Harry Conick Jr., Now 1 and Now 2. It is nice to mix it up a bit, jazz, traditional, funny. It beats the Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers album I grew up with, although Boney M Christmas was pretty good.









The Barenaked Ladies cd is good. A mix of stuff- even funny. (Jingle bells, batman smells...)

I am approaching this Christmas with some trepidation, I must admit. I would have been 4 weeks from EDD at that point. We also have dh's sister come out and she was saying she was going to be a month this time. There are some people that can stay and it is not really a big deal, there are others that it is a big deal. It is a 'big deal' for her to stay with us...her personal grooming habits, table manners (what manners) and all the junk she brings with her make it most noticable. I feel bad for feeling like that, she comes to stay with us to be part of Christmas morning with the boys. They love her to pieces and she is so good with them, it makes me feel selfish to not want her here...but even 2 weeks is too long. SIL has been staying with us every year for the past 5 years. We have never had a just us Christmas in our old house or this one. Our time off is not our own because we have someone else here, so it isn't really like 'down time'.

There is a (very) young couple across the street that just had a baby. I saw him yesterday for the first time. He is 3 weeks old. It wasn't as painful as I thought it might be, but I didn't get that strong rush I used to get from seeing a baby either. New ones that still don't stretch their legs out used to get me. My favorite place for my boys was their head just under my chin and their little legs tucked up, coming just below my breasts. I could stay like that forever, patting their little bums and smelling their sweet heads.

Keri, do you mind sharing what you do? No specifics necessary. Do you work too much to catch up with friends or is it other commitments? Don't mean to be too nosey...but I am aren't I!

No repenting necessary, you had lots of catching up to do. Even if you didn't have to catch up, novels are always appreciated.

Alzheimers is hard on family members. I had the priviledge to be involved in workshops that were specifically dealing with Alzheimers. I was surprised at how little I knew beyond the memory issues. A gift that your Grandpa was so connected to you at that time.

I should go get on with my day, the drywall mudders are just arriving.

Have a great day.

Micheline









*My reiki girlfriend made me cry...*

My doorbell just rang and there was a flower delivery man there with a white rose bush for me. Her card said...

With Deepest Sympathy

_Sometimes there are no perfect words, just know that I am here.
Love_


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## Tan II

Hi RL's

Mish, what a lovely friend you have. I'm so glad she is giving you support in the kindest way. It is always hard when someone you know manages to touch your heart with kindness.
Not to change the subject, but on the day of what would have been Gabriel's 1st birthday, my doorbell rang before I had left to take Tayga to kinder. It was a friend of mine. We were new frinds - we had met a few months before. She met me after Gabriel had died. Anyway, she knew that it would have been Gabriel's b-day. She came to my house first thing to give me a hug, because she knew it would have been a hard day for me.
I will always remember her thoughtfulness. She was the ONLY person to do such a kind thing.

Well done for going walking ! Did you have a good walk ?

Jingle bells, batman smells ..... Tayga loves that song. He thinks it's hysterical !

OMG (oh my god), a visitor for a month. You are brave or mad. That would drive me insane. I don't really enjoy people in my space. (besides my family)

I feel for you having the baby accross the road from you. I found it VERY hard to look at babies until I had Jamie. It hurt too much.
I was so angry with a girl I knew. About a year after Gabriel died, she had a baby. I went to visit her. We weren't really friendly, but it was the right thing to do - I grew up with her husband. Anyway, she had to go and do something, so she handed me her new born baby to hold. I though that was so thoughtless and unkind.

Maybe I was/am too sensitive, but I think sometimes people just don't think.

I hope christmas time isn't too hard for you. Maybe you can put an extra special angel on your tree. Something that you will have on from year to year.

Keri, when do u leave for your trip ? Take a laptop with you and go wireless ! We'll miss you for 10 days.

Had friends over for shabbat dinner tonight. It was a great evening. Lots of laughs and lots of red wine. Always a good combination ! Good food too, if I say so myself !
We are normally with Dh's family, so it was nice to be with friends instead (people we want to be with







). THe in-law family are bugging me at the moment.

Tayga had a good week at school, which was great too. Yay ! His teacher and I are trying a new strategy. It seems to be working. Breath out









Had a busy day preparing for tonight. Going to shower and go to sleep. :yawning:

Have a good day.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hey there Crazy Ladies!

Mich, that your friend sent flowers brought tears to my eyes. And Tan, that your new friend gave you a hug on Gabriel's birthday....some people are just exceptionally thoughtful. Are we those people now?

Mich, I work in a small business with my parents. Dad full time, Mom part time, which is a good balance. DH and I did live in Lincoln, which is an hour from where I work. We bought a house in a little town that splits my commute between the two of us (bless my DH). So that means we live a half hour away from our closest friends. That's not that big of a deal, but it did end a lot of the sponataneity our friendships had. (Not to mention, I lived next door to the people who have become our best friends--I miss that so much!) It takes some planning now.

I have been too busy, between being out of town last weekend, preparing for guests in two weeks (that will occupy most of this weekend) and getting ready to go out of town again. We are leaving next Wednesday.

I also stay busy with doing landscaping, poorly maintaining our garden, and doing fun things like getting the garage cleaned out, and organizing the nuclear disaster that is our basement. That sucks the air out of spare time, so our friendships get neglected. That sounds pathetic, I'll try to work on that.

Never enough time. Sometimes I think trying to add a child to this mix isn't the smartest thing to do.

Fave Christmas cd's are the Vince Guaraldi Trio (the music from the Charlie Brown Christmas cartoon) and BoysIIMen, which is all nontraditional, bluesy soul filled, pensive music. I have a large Christmas cd collection, Nat King Cole, Frank Sinatra, Elvis, Harry Connick, Michael Buble...I intend to get the Diana Krall cd (LOVE her) and DH and I have several Barenaked Ladies cd's, and didn't know about their Christmas one---too fun, it will be ours!

Tan, your dinner sounded like so much fun!

Why in the world in your SIL staying for a month? Can't she split the visit with some other relatives? I had houseguests that I dearly love stay for 2 weeks, and that challenged my sanity. Good luck, and keep a lot of that red wine around!

Back to babies. My best friend told me she was pregnant while I was still bleeding from m/c #1. Had m/c #2 while trying to support her through massive morning sickness. Went to her baby shower the week #1 would have been due. They asked us to be godparents when I was still a hormonal disaster from m/c #3 (yes, I bawled, which made everyone else bawl.) The first few times I visited Mommy & Baby were very, very hard on me (lots of crying in the car). My DH even avoided the Baby for awhile, since it hurt him, too.

It was torture, but worth it. I have already lost our babies, to lose this friendship would make it even worse. And I love our Godson more than I knew was possible, it makes my heart nearly burst.

But I have avoided other people with babies, and no, I wouldn't/won't hold other babies. My cousin probably still wonders what kind of monster I am, I was so disinterested in her new baby. Don't care, I'm not making all of my issues public.

Good friends of ours are expecting their 2nd child in February, we will be seeing them in March. It was hard enough when I had to meet their daughter, who is about 11 months old now. I don't know how I will handle this. I am so happy for them, they are newlyweds in their 40's, and such good people. But I dread March. Why is it so blasted easy for the 43 year old? Thank heavens they live 5 hours away. I will work on the bitterness, I know it is ugly.








: This is me today. Sorry.

My Mom is doing worse also. We are waiting on spinal tap and MRI results, and in the meanwhile, the muscle weakness is progressing. Dad is out of town, and arranged to have a friend stay with her this weekend, since she has fallen twice this week. She is only 63, I am not ready for this. I know that sounds ungrateful, when you two don't have your moms either, sorry. This puts a whole new spin on not being able to produce a granchild, too.

How will I maintain my sanity, being away from you both for 10 days? I wish I had a laptop. Maybe we'll stay at hotels with computer rooms.

Blah, blah. I'm getting over myself now. Maybe I'll actually do some work, since that's where I am at!

No meditation today, the book is at home. It was about being more in tune with the world, seeing little signs in the minutiae that give us hope.

Take care, friends.

Keri

ps, good work walking in the dark, Mich--I hope it helps with the insomnia. Tan, congrats on the good school week for Tayga, it sounds like the plan is working!


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## Tan II

Hi RL's !

Keri, your life sounds hectic. It must be such a change of everything living away from everyone and everything that is familiar.
Adding a child to your busy schedule will just make it more exciting ! You will find the time (or not !) to do all the things you want.

Maybe I'm wrong, but do u think it's also easier not to see your friends. Easier because you don't have to discuss anything you don't want to.(I hope I'm not out of line here).

It must be a very strong and special friendship that you have. I'm sure it has been hard to be around your bf for her pregnancy and birth of her baby. Then to asked to be a godparent. What an honour, but it must have also been very hard.

How is your mom ? I hope she is doing ok. Are you ok ? It is so hard to see a parent weak and unwell. Especially because your parents are the ones who look after you. They are strong, they can do anything. It is scary to see them unwell, and having to look after them. Having the roles reversed.

THis morning Jamie was awake at 6.00am. He was not interested in going back to sleep after his feed. So I started my saturday really early !!!
By the time dh woke up, I had fed Jamie, done a load of washing, watered the garden and done my 1 hour exercise routine !!

Is it a bird ? Is it a plane ? No ..... it's SUPER tired mom !!!! Ha ha









Going to relax !

Have a great weekend.

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Good morning, sleepy Tan!

I hope Jamie takes a nice long nap, so you can too!

Part of my gloom is the disturbed routine. My rut is my comfort zone, and planning 2 trips this close together has upset my rut. I really want to go on this trip, but...

It's so much easier to be around our Godson because he is his own little person, not some generic baby who could be mine. I miss him. His parents are good friends, the type we can really count on. We try to be the same for them.

As far as avoiding my friends, I have completely pulled away from a couple of them. The more casual friends, I don't want to draw them into my web. Not only do I not want to expose to them the raw wound that is my soul, I do not want to put them in the position of giving me continual support. But just avoiding the whole subject is dishonest, it's...oh crap. The elephant in the room is back.

The closer friends--one would never bring up the subjects of my mental health or the m/c's. She would listen if I talked, she would probably volunteer to go to Dr. appts with me. She has studiously forced me to spend more time with her. I guess I think it would make her really uncomfortable if I talked too openly. The one who I have talked with (the Mommy)...we often get together as couples, and I don't want to have a group session heart-to-heart. We haven't had a lunch with just the two of us since August.

I'm not avoiding them. I miss them. And I won't shy away from talking about how I really am, if asked directly.

My Mom is holding up okay. She seems to be doing better than my Dad and me---we want her to fight it, try to maintain some muscle strength and mobility. She is quite comfortable doing less and less, just letting her independence slip away. It makes me angry, but I suppress it, as I don't really know if she CAN do anything about it. I just want her to try, not lay down and let it happen. A diagnosis and prognosis would give me some peace. Me being undiagnosible, and her too? Sometimes I want to go hide in my basement, all the lights off and the doors shut. Would the world just go away, please?

OH! This is pms. How dense can I be? It's hormones, real issues, but exacerbated by hormones. Maybe I haven't lost my superpowers, umm I mean coping skills!

Truly, I have the nearly irresistable urge to type a novel, but this weekend I must prepare for the houseguests. I am excited to get the guestroom put together!

I hope you get some sleep today! Perhaps I will take a nap later, that sounds nice. I'm impressed with your achievements, so early in the weekend!

Miss you, Mich!

Keri the extremely Psycho Lunatic


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## Tan II

Hi Keri the extremely Psycho Lunatic !!

How r u?

DH let me sleep-in this morning ! I fed Jamie at 5.00am and he went back to sleep. When he woke up later on for his b-fast, I stayed in bed catching some z's and dh gave Jamie b/fast and played with him. What a treat ! I was so tired.

We went to friends for lunch today. It was a great day.

How was your weekend ?

I understand what you are saying about being in a rut and having your routine disturbed. And pulling away from people.
It's too hard to wear a mask all the time and it's too hard to pretend all the time. So for those "friends" that can't take the pace, it's best that they move on / away.

DH & I look back over the nearly 3 years since Gabriel died. We see the friends who moved away and the friends who have stayed. Some have surprised us, who we thought were friends, and have fallen away. And same goes for those who have become good friends.
Then there are those that hover somewhere in the middle. Not sure how to deal with all the emotions and ups and downs of our lives.

A while back dh told me that he thinks I pushed a lot of our friends away. I was so angry with him for saying that. I don't have to explain myself to anyone. If people whom I considered to be friends couldn't deal with me and my pain - then they must go. I can't pretend to be someone I'm not. I probably did push people away, I'll admit. BUT, if those people were my real friends, they would have given me my space and time, and still been around when I was ready for them. Right ?

I find it's only now that people feel more comfortable around us. Maybe becasue it's been 3 years, and maybe it's becasue we have Jamie. Maybe it's because I am dealing with my pain better.

The elephant in the room .... I've got a poem about that.

I understand exactly what u r saying about talking to your good friends openly and honestly - if they ask you. The key is getting them to ask you. Not always so easy. It's a tricky situation. Them not wanting to upset you by asking, and you not wanting to talk if they don't want to hear.

I miss my good friends too. In fact, I feel pretty lonely. Even with all the friends I have. I feel like amongst all my friends, there isn't anyone really who I could pick up the phone to say "I'm having a bad day". Everyone is too awkward and unsure what to say.
I could talk to my sister, but it's hard over the phone. She knows me so well. I hate to burden her, because I know it's frustrating for her. Being so far away, there is nothing she can do for me. She should only know that there have been some conversations where I've got the "happy voice" on and tears streaming down my face.
I know that she knows when I'm feeling yuck. She also knows I need my space to "feel safe" and open up.

I can't wait until she's living here. 4 Months to go !!!

I would imagine that it is so utterly frustrating for you that your mom won't fight back. Or maybe can't fight back. You just want to say "come on, you CAN do it. Fight."
The worst part, is that there is nothing you can do to help her.

Been there, done that.

I hope that things get better.

Gee life can be complicating sometimes.

Even Superman has to have a break sometimes. So take your cape off every now and then. No guilt needed. Let Batman have a chance.

How is the guestroom looking ? I hope you had fun getting it ready.

Have a better day today.

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Good morning, or afternoon, Tan! And Mich too, your absence is duly noted.

I am partly to mostly cloudy, thanks for asking. It's interesting, how I can do so much better then plunge back into the abyss, without any real reason. No new reason, that's more accurate.

How are you? Really?

I'm lonely too. I miss the times in life when I had friends that I saw frequently, who could read my moods, and I could read theirs. Friends that I could talk more openly with....or when I had less that I needed to talk openly about.

It's not my friends that make me lonely, it is the turns life has taken. My self imposed isolation makes me lonely. And my schedule sure hasn't helped!

Am I pushing people away? To a certain extent, yes. Once again, the damn elephant. The people who KNOW and have said nothing, I really have lost respect for and interest in. And the people that I'm not really close enough to open up to.....yeah, I've let them slide.

We used to have parties, dinner parties and birthday parties and holiday parties, parties because Mars was closer to Earth than usual--any silly reason....we have certainly fallen out of that routine. I can't even get the house clean, much less throw a party. It is such a loaded thing to do, invite all those peripheral people..."so how have you been?" I can't wear the fake face too long, and I don't want to be brutally honest with them. Oh, the 'Stunned Silence' party, that's a great theme, don't you think?

But I understand, how some 'friends' just have to go. If they can't help you when you need it, what good are they? You can't embrace fair-weather friends, not once you know who they really are.

I gave up working on the guest room yesterday. How long can I drag this project out? The new sheets are in the washer, so I'm getting closer. One mattress is upstairs, one bed is assembled...it will happen today, since I am out of time.

I did sort of clean the house yesterday, so I am less appalled at our pigginess. --stamps foot indignantly--I want live in help! Why did you have to bring that up?!? Ever since you mentioned it, I yearn for it. It is non-existent in my world, it had never even crossed my mind. What a lovely concept. This from a person who will not pay someone else for personal grooming! My friend keeps trying to get me to go for a pedicure with her. Um, I can trim and paint my own toenails, thanks! Ah, but live in help...

It was so nice of your DH to let you sleep in! I have caught up on sleep this weekend. I have developed this miserable habit of falling asleep on the couch, only to wake up in the middle of the night to go to bed. It is just since the last m/c, and I don't know why I do it. I hate it, but can't seem to make myself go to bed...I have been doing self analysis, wondering what is really going on.

Anyway, more sleep is a good thing, for both of us!

4 months until your sister arrives, and 6 months until you become citizens..those are really good things to look forward to.

Blah, blah blah, blah blah. On and on I go.

Thanks for chatting, it does help to unload some of the heavy stuff!

I hope your weekend has ended on a good note, time with friends, wonderful husband, happy kids, well rested!

Keri, the Raging Nut


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## Mammax4

good morning!

I thought I should pop in before you both think I am lost. Well, I am actually, but not physically lost.

It is busy here right now as the drywaller is finishing up the downstairs. He has been working this weekend (and will be back today for a bit). Apparently he needs to do a little more sanding downstairs and we will be able to paint. (today!?!) I am not sure if there will be time, but nice that we are at that point. Will has a b-day party to go to. It's a gf of mine. I found the most amazing present for her dd. It is a halloween costume that is called sleeping beauty. It is pink, has a hoop skirt, feather sleeve cuffs and sparkles. I love that I found a really cool present. Her dd loves to play dress up.

I know about the avoidance tactic...been there doing that. I haven't gone to get my haircut because she is a friend of mine and I don't want to 'go there'. She is full of the 'reason for everything'...'you have 3'. She had issues with fertility, so her mind isn't so open to being sad about the loss of #4. I am tempted to move on, but she does a great job and it's hard to find someone that is good. I guess I am doing the same kind of avoidance as you were Keri. I haven't been to the dentist, I need to go to the Dr. and my hair is getting scary out of control. Did you do that too Tan?

I agree that an experience like this really does 'weed out' those that are there for the long haul vs those that are there for a while. It can definately add to the sad moments. I guess there are those that just don't mind the elephant so much.

I am hoping to find a 'nice' way to tell my SIL that a month is too long. Truthfully, a few days is more than enough. She is coming from Ontario though, so I guess wants the biggest bang for her buck. Unfortunately, there is no where else for her to stay here. My BIL and his wife have split up. (that's why he is living with us...we need to take care of him right now, he is so sad...he needs to be with us) My other SIL is a raging alcoholic, and lives in a less than positive environment. We think that she is doing drugs as well, but have no proof. My DH went for a walk/talk with her about 2 years ago and said she was not welcome to be a part of his family unless she got herself together. There is a long story behind all that, isn't there always... Needless to say, she no longer calls to wish him happy b-day and we haven't seen her since shortly after Will was born.

Sorry about your Mom Keri. I can't imagine the frustration and fear you must be experiencing right now. Although our experiences are different, we are here and will walk the path with you--no matter where it goes. Maybe she is afraid... afraid of what it may be, afraid to hope. Sometimes the unknown is worse, your mind is capable of so many not so nice thoughts sometimes.

I am going to go for now... I have to get ready for the party. Will and I both are still in our PJ's.

Have a good day. I will talk later, so many more things to say... it has been one of those few days for me--Friday I felt like I was going to uke all day because of the space my head was in. I am trying to swing that the other way, but of course I was shopping on Saturday and that is never a good thing for me these days. There was a tiny new little girl baby in the store. Dad was holding her without support, she was doing "I'm hungry" stuff and it was all I could do not to share my thoughts with him. Sometimes I find the rage/anger harder to hold in than the sadness.

Micheline







:







:


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## lolalapcat

Mich, I hoped you were out having fun, not being sad!










I too want to swoop up children and bring them home, when their parents are being less than stellar. Ingrates. Poor babies. Grrrr.

......putting on Martyr hat, climbing on soapbox...........

Ahem, as a member of the Less-Than-1%-Club, I choose to speak on behalf of those of us who have not been able to have children.

We do not have a corner on the market of pain.

Because we cannot have children does not mean we can deny mothers the right to grieve their own losses.

That someone else's pain is different from ours does not negate their experience.

All lost babies are just that....tragic losses.

Mich, your 'friend' needs to be smacked. She is self centered and thoughtless.

.....climbing off soapbox, taking off Martyr hat.......

I cut my own hair. That would solve that problem, wouldn't it? Fly down here, not only will I cut your hair, but I have brand new linens on a brand new mattress in a brand new guest room! Well, almost, the comforter is still in the dryer.

Ummm, does your SIL work? I would love to have a month off. I sure as heck wouldn't spend all of it visiting, gosh the things I could get done! Sorry your DH has such an interesting family. In my experience though, that is entirely typical. Every family has their issues, once again, you are not alone.

So now the pressure is on. I finally went to the dentist, called the doctor and pharmacist, and the optometrist......your turn. Let me know if you need more prodding.

Thanks for saying you will stay with me on this path my Mom is on. That truly does mean the world to me. I'll keep you posted, hopefully we will get some results from her neurologist before we leave on Wednesday!

Okay, I have to quit playing hooky and get back to work! The end is in sight!

Hang in there, Mich.

Keri, the slightly less nutso


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## Tan II

Hi Gang !

Welcome back Mish. I was wondering where u were.







I hope you are feeling more at peace today. Those days are hard. I send u lots of good thoughts and hugs.

Yes, I definately did the avoidance thing. I didn't go to the dentist for 2 years after Gabriel died. When I eventually did go, it was because I had an absys. It was so bad that the tooth had to be removed. Luckily it was at the back. After that I went to a new dentist. I had to have lots of fillings, because I had neglected myself. He didn't know why I had neglected myself, and I didn't say.

The halloween costume for your friend's daughter sounds gorgeous. Girls things are so much fun ! I have to have a girl, otherwise you might see me walking around in a fairy princess dress ! Ha ha, can u imagine !

Your hairdresser friend sounds like an idiot. Sorry. People like that bug me.
I stopped going to the salon where I have my waxing done. I knew the women there well, and had been going there for ages before I was pregnant with Gabriel and during. After he died the young girl their offered her condolences. The Owner, who is much older, never ever said a word. I was so angry with her. Even if she didn't know what to say, she could have acknowledged my loss. Now I go to another salon, and the woman who I go to is divine.
I have seen the woman from the first salon around, but I ignore her. I pretend I don't recognise/know her.
If she can't acknowledge my loss, I'm not going to support her with my business.

Keri, I was laughing at the "stunned silence" party. I could have thrown a few of those parties.
I am starting to feel back on track. It has taken 3 years. It's so hard, people expect you to carry on as normal. To be the same person you were before. It doesn't work like that. It takes so much effort to "put myself out there". I also know that if I don't put myself out there, I will be alone. To be included in all the social get-togethers, one has to make an effort too.

I suppose I'm finding that hard too. Friends. I have so many friends, and good friends. Yet I just don't feel like we belong to a group. We have friends from different groups - not one of our own. Keep in mind, all our friends here are new friends, and not people we have grown up with or have a history with. They joys of immigration.

I hope you had a good rest of your weekend. How is your mom?

Going to do some scrapbooking. I haven't started my "10 year anniversary" scrapbook for dh. I better get moving, seeing it's for Jan. and I am so slow at it !

Chat soon
Tan


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## Mammax4

Well, I can say Good Evening now...

Dinner is done, more wash is in the machine and I have some time now to sit and chat. I feel like I have been off my game this weekend...and I have been really.

I have been stewing in the abyss that is my brain. It is not a good place to be at times. I was surprised by my how rotten I felt (physically) on Friday. It goes to show how closely connected the brain really is.

I have been cutting my own hair since my last cut at the end of June. I really can't get motivated to put on that 'okay face' for her...she made some comments prior to pregnancy #4, ones that indicate her level of envy, jealousy. I could understand the heartache of wanting more children, I could understand the envy--I was there before we had Will. (nevermind now..) I don't think I could sit there and let the tone of the comments go by now. Her situation does not give her the right to make comments about me being "greedy" (in reference to the number of children I have), there's more, but why bother??

SIL does work, but her work load is based on her availability. She has just been diagnosed with (I can't remember what) syndrome. Treatment involves transfusion of blood products. I kind of hope that will dictate a shorter visit. She wouldn't take being told to limit visiting time very well. She has no self esteem, no partner, no kids and all her family lives here. A month of burping an not excusing, showering once every 10 days, drinking too much, being really loud, bringing all kinds of thrift store finds here is all too much for me to consider fun. The kids enjoyment of her doesn't even come close to = the impact on our household. It does make me keep my mouth shut and hope that next year will be different.

You really do almost wrap yourself in a blanket of 'leave me be'...I wrapped myself up like that, even excluding dh. There are so many things/levels that I am trying to wrap my head around right now...talking to reiki gf is good/bad for me in that it gets me thinking -a lot. I am trying to work through some thoughtless/mean things he said when this happened. It doesn't make me feel too lovey about him. I don't think he was being mean, I just think it didn't effect him...I don't know if he felt bad about our loss, or if he felt bad because the loss made him feel relieved. I am afraid to ask him that right now. I wouldn't want to hear the answer I believe to be true.

In fairness, I gave a solid push away from me when all this started. He didn't try to get me back, or stay with me.

Anyway, I suppose I should get on with the laundry. No more slacking...

I better stop before I take up several pages on my own.

Tan- glad to hear you got a sleep in. That is so nice! Hope you had a nice lunch with your friends.

Keri- hope your room stuff got done. I will keep my fingers crossed that you hear something before you go away for work.

Talk to you tomorrow.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

I know I'm early (for you) with my wishes (it's the 17th here !). Happy Birthday for Will







:
I hope you have a fun day. You doing anything special ? When's the party ?

Sounds like u need a medal having your SIL staying with u.

Maybe your dh doesn't know how to deal with his feelings ? So he's being a typical male and acting like he doesn't care.
You don't want to talk it through with him ? Even if you hear something you don't want to hear. It might help you to move to the next level with him. Whatever that might be.

Jamie is sleeping. I have so many things I need to get done now. Some chores, some "me time". Not sure what to start with !!! Ha ha. I know I should do the chores, but I feel like "me time". Not so much fun being an adult !

Anyway, step 1 is to boil the kettle and make a cup of coffee.

I hope you are in a better place today. If you're not, that's ok. We are here for you. (no need to put on any "happy faces").

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hello, favorite people!

I want a 'leave me be' blanket! Oh, wait. Avoidance is not good. Getting together with people is good. Must not avoid people.

I want a 'leave me be' blanket!

Mich, maybe it's a defense mechanism for your DH, 'well I didn't even really want another baby." Sometimes I fall into that a bit, maybe I don't really want kids, doesn't that make the pain of not having them go away?

Extraordinarily personal question, avoid now if you don't want to be asked: was your DH invested in baby 4? I'm not even sure how far along you were, Mich, I'm sorry, I should know that.







I was just wondering where his head was when you lost baby 4?

Your hairdresser/friend? Toxic. Dispose of her. My best friend from college wound up being pretty toxic, I spent time after our visits licking my wounds. Got rid of her 3 years ago, and it brought me enormous peace of mind. I still miss her, but not what our friendship had become. Eeek, I can't even imagine having her around for this m/c adventure, it would be truly horrendous. As it was, I let the 'friendship' drag on for years, when I knew it wasn't good.

Tan, good for you for kicking your old salon owner to the curb! Like I keep repeating, over and over again, is it so fricking hard to drop a card in the mail? Repeat after me, 'I am sorry for your loss'. Stupid people, when will they learn?









I still exchange Christmas cards with one person I knew from childhood, and a couple from college....my dearest friends are comparatively new, 13 years for one, 7 years for another, 3 years for the most unflinching of my friends. It's kind of sad, not having more 'old' friendships, but that's just the way my life has evolved.
When did you immigrate to Australia, Tan? It's great that you have made so many new friends. I thought moving to different states was tough, I can't imagine moving to a different country. And it should be in my blood!

Mich, I'm packing my tools and coming to build you a guest house, out by the fruit trees. Your SIL sounds, umm, earthy. Or something. You are extraordinary for hosting her year after year. Does it have anything to do with your cape? Must get one of those. Perhaps you could join her in drinking too much? Just a thought.

Tan, you are back on track....that is fabulous! We are hitching onto your train, baby! Once we get out of the abyss, which I kinda thought was mine, Mich. Give it back! Get on the Normal Express!

BTW, the meditation for today addresses grief making people uncomfortable, and so be it, we need to move on to people who are more understanding. How fitting is that right now? I've been waiting for a meditation to hit the mark, and this one did.

Updates: Guest rooms are ready for guests. Only one of the two beds got set up in the new room, unexpected complication from using antique beds. Enough space without it. I want to sleep on the new sheets, with the new blankets and comforter! When I get back, I'll sneak a nap up there.

No news on my Mom's tests. I could honestly throttle her doctor about now. She is doing okay, I guess. Being busy helps all of us to not dwell on the matters at hand. We really should have gotten a wheelchair for this trip, I think it's going to be an issue.

Thanks for asking!

Mich, take care. I'm sorry the blues have gotten ahold of you again. It's Will's birthday tomorrow? Happy Birthday to him! What a fun age for a birthday party, I hope you all have a great time!









Tan, I hope you got all kinds of scrapbooking done, that sounds like fun!

Novel complete. Sweet dreams!

Keri the Verbose


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## Mammax4

Hey Tan and Keri

Hang on to those wishes...Will is Nov. 17. I can't believe he is turning 4. Where does the time go? It was only yesterday he was born wasn't it? (in our bedroom and his big bro's cut his cord!) He is no longer the baby, but the big boy...

I have been asking myself the same question Keri... and the honest answer is, no. He likes the stages beyond infant and does suffer some jealousy when I am too tired to dtd, he worries about money, his age...

The pregnancy was a surprise, we had been fairly careful for the time after Will, but not 100%. A little background...I had 2 tubal reversals, the second one was successful. I was left with only one tube that would be functionable for pregnancy purposes, the other was too short. With only one side, the likelihood of scar tissue, my age we didn't really think the risk was too great. We threw caution to the wind (for 1 week) and I ended up getting pregnant. It wasn't planned, but when we found out it wasn't a bad thing either. It was a -- wow!.. 4 ...alright, we better get ready!

I was 10.3 weeks when we found out the baby had died. (missed miscarriage) You couldn't have known, as I didn't mention it. I couldn't bring myself to post on the remembering thread either. It seemed too...invasive to me. Maybe I was being too protective. Don't know, but couldn't get there.

I do think it is hard for a man to connect to an early pregnancy. When reiki gf sent me the flowers, he was floored. I don't think it occured to him it was 'that' kind of a situation. The expression on his face when he read the card said it all-- almost a shock/unsettled (heavy) look. I do understand that it is hard for him to 'get' this and me.

I can say I didn't 'get' it until now. I can't expect him to feel the way I do, we had different experiences through this pregnancy. I got the belly and bigger bra, he didn't. (but he enjoyed the reason behind the bigger bra








)

I'm thinkin' we should put a blow up mattress in the garden shed, and give her a couple of blankets. Think she'd stay long then?? SIL is a lesbian, not too earthy, but a bit of a free spirit. I think if I built a guest house, she would move in permanently. EEEKK!!

It is a good idea to move on in the hairdresser dept. I am not too invested in staying there, I am invested in filling my life with the positive. I have no issue with dumping negativity, however that takes place. I haven't spoken to my mom's mom or sister for years. There is too little free time to spend it on/with negative people.

I am on the upswing. I should know better by now... no 'leave me be' blanket...only you two!! Blanket ~ bad... Raging Lunatics ~ good. When I chat more (open up) it feels so much better. Even if it is to say "I feel crappy", you both make me feel better. So, Kick my Ass if I am not responding for a day again!! (I would kick yours







)

I must stop for now, I have a dusty mess to clean. The mudder guy did use the vacuum sander...I can't imagine what it would have been like without it!! I am sure I will be cleaning dust for months. Harmony looks hilarious, her black parts are dusted white.

Have a good night/day.

Tan, pretty soon it will be up to you and me to keep it going.

Keri, if I don't get a chance to tell you tomorrow, have a safe trip, I hope you can take a bit of time for you.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hey Raging Loons !

I can't believe I got the birthday day wrong. I don't know why I thought it was Oct and not Nov. Oh well









How is all the dust ? What a pain. How much longer until it's complete?

Your SIL is sounding more and more like a character. I hope her visit isn't too nerve grating. It's alwasy hard having people stay in your space. When my sister arrives to live here next year.Her and her husband and 2 kids will stay with us until their container arrives with all their stuff. That will be approx 6 weeks. My sister and I are so close - even so, I think 6 weeks is a long time.

I won't complain - she's coming to live here. YAY !!!!









I'm glad you feel better chatting here with us. It helps to unload and share, instead of bottling it up and eventually exploding. Trust me on this one !! Poor dh has experienced a few explosions, and it aint pretty








So I'll hold your hand, if you'll hold mine. And promise to share and avoid explosions.

I find it so scary sharing. Thank you for allowing me to feel safe enough to start opening up and sharing. I have needed to so badly.

Keri, I hope u have a safe trip and that it's not too tiring. We will miss you.

January will be 5 years that we immigrated to Australia. It was a decision that we never doubted. The crime and violence is so bad in South Africa. So there wasn't really an option.
It's hard leaving everything and everyone that is familiar. Especially family. But just like anything in life, if you have the right attitude - then everything will be ok. Yip, you guessed it. Everything was ok ! (swimming, just keep swimming !)
Missing my family was the hardest part. Missing them was like a physical pain. It was even harder when my mother was sick, and I got the call to come back to see her. Even harder because Gabriel was in intesive care. How could I not go back. Tough call. Sick baby in ICU, sick mother in ICU. Thankfully, the nurses and doctors were amazing and kind and gave me the assurance that it was ok to go and see my mom. They would take care of Gabriel. (Like they weren't already !). I still wasn't able to feed him becasue he was so small. So if I was there or not ....

I am so thankful that I went back, and spent some time with my mom. Not really quality time, becasue she was in hospital. But, I was there. She knew that she was important enough for me to fly thousands of miles to be with her. It possibly made her realise she was dying too. As if she didn't know that already.

2 weeks after I got back to Australia after visiting her, she died.

Got to change the subject, too painful to think about. Makes me feel too sad. *Wall up*

Guess what ?? I finished my first page of my 10 year anniversary scrapbook !







It's a start !

Tomorrow is "walk to school day" !! Lucky we don't live far. Tayga will go on his bike, and I'll push the pram. Our usual thing !

A bit of useless info. My favourite idol on Australian Idol got kicked out.

I'm off to shower and hit the sack !:yawning: It's been a long day.

Have a good day !
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Oh, morning again!

Must type rapidly, too much to do, not enough time.

Mich, I wonder how many people discount a miscarriage as 'not a real loss' in order to cope with it in their own minds. My DH kinda does that with our second loss, since I started to lose that pregnancy the same day it was confirmed. It wasn't enough time for him to be invested. And his body wasn't doing what mine was, obviously.

It took someone else sending flowers for your DH to 'get it'. I wonder if he has some guilt? Or if he still doesn't quite get it? It's so hard to read people sometimes.

I didn't post on the 'preg/birth loss awareness day' thread either, although I did read it. I thought about it all day. I thought about all the other women going through this, all day. But I just couldn't post there. Not sure why.

Tan, thanks for telling us more about your Mom. I can't imagine how you dealt with everything at once, 2 ICU's on 2 continents, having to choose to leave your baby to visit your Mom for the last time. Your strength is astounding.

I appreciate that it is painful for you to talk about this. Take the wall down and share more when you are ready. I'm pretty sure it will help you through the anniversaries to let some of the pressure out.

It is a safe place for me too. Normally I don't need a lot of validation, but with these losses, that no one talks about, I think I needed to hear that it is okay to be torn up about them. I already kinda know that, but...maybe I'm not convinced. Sometimes I feel maudlin (I think that's the word I'm looking for).

Mich, ICK! Don't tell me about SIL's lack of hygiene, then remind me she is a sexual creature! Sorry for putting that in everybody's head, but it's Mich's fault. Ick. Okay, how about a pup tent in the back yard?

Tan, great, now I want to watch Australian Idol! I became addicted to American Idol 2 seasons ago. It's happy tv, people singing. Sorry your favorite got kicked off, I hope they go off and become famous on their own!

Gotta go, friends. Busy day at work, then I need to pack and finish de-cluttering the house, and get up early in the morning.

I'll miss you both, and try to check in sometime while I'm gone! Take care, no visits to the abyss until I'm back, please.

Keri the Absent

oh Mich, my MIL sent me another Halloween towel, and an autumn one too! Love that woman. Have fun dressing up! I hope to be back by then....


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## Mammax4

Hello Tan and Keri,

I went for my early morning walk again today. Yeah! I am going to do it each Tues/Thurs. Once things settle down in my house, I have a borrowed treadmill that I am going to hop on and get myself physically going. Y'all are motivating the 'mental' me... oh, boy... mental me







I meant the processing part, although the state of mind 'mental' works at times to.

My SIL is so great to the kids, she really does love them whole heartedly. I can't feel too good about limiting her visit. How many people are lucky enough to have someone love them completely. She actively participates in stuff with them here and has a genuine interest in what they are doing. I think for her, she is in her mid 50's, being a lesbian has been difficult. She did not have the benefit of a 'tolerant' or positive society. Thinking at the time was it was a choice and she could be 'treated' for it. Her parents were not supportive of her initially and eventually came to a tolerance (not acceptance) later. Her relationships were never recognized the way her hetro siblings relationships were. It has been a tough road. I think some of her personal grooming practises (or lack of) are a direct result of her struggles of 'coming out'. Perhaps a case of push me one way and I will push in the exact opposite direction and a whole lot harder. She participates in the opposite of what one thinks of feminine. I think it was a protective mechanism for her... Maybe I have it all wrong too, could be she just doesn't care!

Enough about SIL...

Tan, good for you getting the first page of your album done! I would love to learn how to scrapbook. I have been tempted a few times, one of my friends had a group from her work that got together once a month to scrapbook together. What a cool idea! Creative fun and socialization.

Thank you for sharing about your Mom. I agree with Keri, your strength is astounding. I am glad you were able to go and see her. I guess that means that anniversary is coming soon... I am sorry for that.

Btw, no avoidance tactics necessary, if an explosion is required, better out than in... think of the mess it would make if it was not let out.

I don't want to watch Canadian Idol. It is the ultimate in bad, lame tv, and the singers are not very good either. American Idol is good, I bet Australian Idol is as well. There have been some great Aussie's on RockStar. (INXS and Supernova)

Keri, I used to have that kind of relationship with my MIL. I firmly stood on some ground that MIL didn't like and that changed 360 degrees. I am not one to sweep problems under the carpet, she was. It was unfortunate, but I am who I am. Sometimes that's good, sometimes well...let's just say I don't always choose the pussyfoot path. I'm not a b*tch, but don't hesitate to provide my honest thoughts if it is a subject/situation that I have an opinion about, especially if my opinion is a strong one. I can be (am) ferocious if it involves protecting my kids.

Anyway, I suppose I should get on with my day. I need to do some more de-dusting. We are finished the drywall stuff downstairs and all the debris has been cleaned. We will be painting pdq and carpet goes in on Monday. Upstairs should be done today and we will paint and have the wood floor laid. We are so close to done (inside) I can almost 'taste' it.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Good morning/evening !

Well done for going walking again. That's really good. I find when I excercse I feel better. Must be all the endorphines !

Now I feel sorry for your SIL. SHe must be very lonely. It must be hard trying to get acceptance from her family all the time.

I didn't post on the 'preg/birth loss awareness day' thread either. Some days I'm happy to share, other days not.

Keri, have a good trip. Hopefully we can catch up while u r away.

Got to get dressed and ready for school !!
Tayga has sprinted out of bed all excited to be riding to school day. And I thought he might forget ! Not !

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Ummm, Message Board Addict, checking in....







:

We have to wait for a package to be delivered this morning before we can leave, so that bought me some time this morning. Finally, all our ducks are in a row.

Mich, thanks for explaining about your SIL, now the situation makes more sense. That your children love her so much must be one of the great joys in her life, the unconditional love is reciprocal. And that you raised such children, and are willing to have her stay every holiday, she must be quite fond of you too.

And my MIL is great, but she holds grudges. I have to be careful what I say, make sure it cannot be misconstrued. I haven't yet felt compelled to stand up to her about much, which I'm sure will change when we have kids. She tries to be very considerate, since she felt steamrolled by her own MIL, and most the time does a good job!

It doesn't surprise me that you are a Mama Bear when it comes to your kids, that's what I expected!

That's surprising that Canadian Idol isn't any good. The Canadians (and Aussie on Supernova) have been fierce competitiors on the Rockstar programs. It's so funny that you watch those also--our little circle of friends all watch, and we give each other email reports after each show!

Tan, I hope Walk to School Day was fun, it sounds like it would be!

My reprieve is ticking away, I'm really leaving now. Take care!

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Gals

Isn't it funny how one second you can feel ok, and the next you feel down.

I just had a conversation with an old friend. We stopped talking after Gabriel died. For no reason. She pulled away, I pulled away. Anyway our husbands (who were also good friends)are in the process of becoming business partners. Which means that we will al be involved again.

I left a message for her to invite them over. Thought it would be a good idea to start a relationship again, seeing it's going that way from a business point.

Anyway, she called me back now. We chatted for an hour ! It was nice to catch up. I also wanted, in my own way, to let her know that I know that her and her husband pulled away from us, as we did from them.
So I made a generalised comment that people pulled away from us after Gabriel died.
She was like "what do u mean ?".
So I explained. Obviously implying them as well.

Now I feel like, should I have even said anything. Should I have let sleeping dogs lie ? I don't want to make things more awkward than what they are. I also wanted to acknowledge the fact that we pulled away from people too. Not only that they all pulled away from us. (Am I making any sense, or am I just rambling on ?).










Going to shower. Was up so early with Jamie this morning. Cheeky monkey.

Chat later.
Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan,

I am sorry that your friend seems to have reacted defensively to your comment. I suppose we like to think that we are the 'be all end all' in all of our relationships. Maybe she doesn't realize how far back she stepped. I hope she can come around and see what you were attempting, and appreciate that you were putting yourself out there for her to connect with. It is difficult to have the elephant in the room when you have to move on to a different level of relationship. (monetary ties)

Sleeping dogs don't lie forever. Better to nudge it awake when you are in a positive position to do so rather than wait for it to wake on its own. You never know where you might be at that moment and it could make things more difficult. Perhaps she will think about what the reality has been now that it has been pointed out to her. I think it would be awkward, certainly for the first little while anyway. She has to get to know the new you...one she is unfamiliar with. It may take a bit, but if she is a true, good friend it will get there.

People come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime. You will find where she fits. We are reminders that life doesn't always go where we expect it...sometimes that is too hard for people to deal with. They like to live in their own false reality.

I hope that your day is a little (lot) brighter. Try not to worry too much about what the picture of your friendship is. It will be what it will be. Your conversation will not turn the friendship onto a path it wasn't already headed to. The only thing it could do is set the tone for the level of honesty in your relationship. That can't be a bad thing. It may not end up where you expect it too, but at least you can know you did your best to make it better.

Talk to you later.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

Thanks for that. I felt much better after reading your comment. You are right.

I was going to phone the friend this morning to check she wasn't upset with me for saying what I did. You helped me put it into perspective.
You are right, she did get defensive. Probably because she felt guilty.

So no, I didn't phone her. If she is upset with me, too bad !

Btw, I hope u don't mind I spell your name the way I'd say it !

How's the house coming along ?

Catch u over the weekend.
Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan,

A quick hello, as I am up to my eyeballs in paint...I will post more tonight when it is too dark to paint.

I am wondering how you are doing. Not just the "how are ya", but really..."how are you?" Are you 'walling'? Is it close to your Mom's time? Am I reading more into your short posts than is really there? Are you trying to be/appear upbeat here when you really aren't? If you are at an okay point, totally ignore the ramblings of a Raging Lunatic!

I have been stewing in my own vile juices lately. (Thursday night my DH wasn't so D...I will share that later) Maybe that's why I am thinking it has spread to you too. Sometimes it seems to be in the air.

So, I hope I am reading wrong, but if I am not...take the wall down sweet lady. If the job seems too overwhelming, remember always--you are not alone. (did I mention I LOve demolition?!?







-- I swing a pretty good sledge hammer!)

Take care my friend. I will talk to you later.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

How did u get to know me so well, so quickly ??

U r right. The dates are getting closer (11Nov), and the walls are going up. Got the sensation of not being able to breath again, because I'm trying so hard to keep it together.

I'll have come and chat more later. Everyone seems to need my help right NOW !

I hope u r feeling ok, and that things with dh (or is it still h) are better.

Chat later
Tan


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

I'm back ! Why does everyone need me at the same time, and why can't they do things themselves ?

DH & I had a big fight yesterday. I am feeling realling down and sad. My 2 big dates are coming up in a few weeks time which always makes me feel sad.

Also a silly (to others) thing happened over the weekend. All my mom's things were packed up and have been stored at my aunt the past 3 years. She had asked my brother to go through the stuff, and what he didn't want she was going to give to charity. She didn't give him a deadline, so he has taken his time. Meanwhile, she assumed he had done it, and gave it ALL away.
My sister has my mom's personal stuff. But there were things there that I wanted for sentimental reasons. Especially a beautiful tea set that my mom loved.
It has been given away. I am so upset about that. I know it sounds silly, but it was a connection to my mom. Something I would use and think of her.
I am so angry and frustrated and upset.

So, anyway, this weekend I have been feeling really miserable.

DH and I landed up having a huge fight over junk. Then he starts to say that I'm always miserable. I walk around with a long face all the time. I should go for help.

I was SO angry and upset to hear him say that. Am I not allowed time to feel sad ? BTW, I DO NOT walk around miserable with a long face all the time. Definately not in public (maybe at home). But I'm allowed to.
Why am I not allowed to feel sad and show that I am feeling sad ? Just becasue I have off days doesn't now mean I need to go for help either.

I would also like to be considered more. Maybe that's my fault. I always go with the flow, e.g. agree to what ever dh and Tayga want to do/dvd to watch/take-aways to get etc. - even if I want something else. I alwasy seem to be railroaded into doing/getting something I might not want. I'm sick of being treated as a second class citizen.
Although when I tell dh this he looks at me like I am mad. He tells me he worships the ground I walk on, and will do anything for me.








I am so annoyed.

The past 3 years I have been busy being a good wife and mother, putting my feelings aside. The few times I do allow myself to get in touch with them, I get complaints. Which is why I don't give myself the opportunity to get in touch, because I always have to be on top of things. Which is why I am a basket case.

Later in the day yesterday, I explained this to dh. He got the picture. I think he felt really bad. He went out and got me a present.

That's so sweet of him. But it still didn't give me the opportunity or the "safe place" to open up. To fall apart and cry my eyes out - like I know I need to do but don't. For him to say "it's ok you feel sad and miss your mom. That the tea set that would have been a connection to her is gone. That things are out of your control..."

He gets so uncomfortable, especially when I cry. He doesn't know what to say, what to do. To hold me, not to hold me. To talk, to keep quiet.
So in his defence, I suppose he just doesn't know what to do.
For me, it's easier not to put him in a position. To have to make him feel ok, when I'm the one who needs comfort.

So, I suppose I am in a very lonely place. Lucky I have you to offload to.

Last night, in bed, I cried. I haven't done that in ages.

No worries world, I'll put on my happy face so no-one has to feel uncomfortable around me.

Jamie has just woken up, going to give him lunch.

Chat later
Tan







(With happy face plastered on. God forbid I should look miserable. I might upset someone.)


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## Mammax4

third time a charm??

I have tried twice to reply and written novels and they didn't work







:







:

Micheline


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## Tan II

I hate it when that happens. Sometimes I copy it before I send, just in case that happens. Nothing worse.

This is a quick report back .....

-Tantrum over.
-DH & I are back on track after some communication !
-Feeling better about the tea set. Still upset and disappointed, but getting over it. Will buy my own special tea set one day in memory.
-Decided (but I knew this already), that those friends who have not been along for the ride, can stay away. I make no apologies.
-Am trying hard to not have a long face around the house
-Started the next page in my scrapbook !

Going to give Jamie lunch before he destroys Tayga's playstation !

I hope u feel like typing your novel again. I'd love to read it !

Chat later
Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan,

Brilliant idea! I wish I would have thought to copy it both times! I had to take a step back from here as I was mad it happened again. Anyway, I will write the novel again, even though some may be old news.

I am sorry about your Mom's tea set. It would have been thoughtful of your Aunt to confirm that the sorting had been done prior to her taking the next step. It is one that can't be taken back. I can understand the sadness of not being able to have the tea set, no, it isn't silly. It wasn't the tea set (thing) that you made reference to, but the connection that you were looking for. (I read anyway) In not having the chance to have the tea set, you are in a way having another loss. Not of a thing, but the connection. I am glad you will buy one in your Mom's memory.

I feel for your loss of safe space at home. We do need a place to 'exhale' as we hold so much in to present our 'okay' face. To have DH- even for a moment- show an impatience with a sad time could make it harder to truly relax. I hope that you can and that he will be more aware of how much his reaction/response impacts your ability to unwind. It would be so much better if they could be patient and understanding. It is good that he recognized he had upset you, that is a start in the right direction.

To make a long story short(er), DH made a thoughtless remark that made me pretty sad. We are a very language oriented family, and language humour reigns in this house. Generally, that is not a problem...his subject manner this time left much to be desired. A gf of mine had told our old neighbor that we were not expecting anymore. He made some word play about babies. I was stunned. Here I am struggling to get through, day by day and he's making a joke!?! WTF? I couldn't eat dinner and I was in a fog for the remainder of the night.

DH and I talked on Saturday. He commented on how I was shooting down his ideas and being negative about his input into the reno. Where we could have had different ideas about things before, I guess he is reading that as against him right now. We talked about his not so D moment. He said he knew that he had upset me. (well, hello...how about an apology!) I told him he never said sorry or anything about his comment being not the best. He did apologize, and said he didn't even know why he said it. (an apology really works better for me when I don't have to solicite it...especially from a grown up) We both are concerned that we avoid the path of no communication. We both are wanting to stay together. We have agreed to needing to make us a priority in all of this chaos. So, that is where 'we' are right now. It does seem to be a bit of a broken record really...get upset...talk....be better...get upset....

DH does not see the m/c as a loss of a child. It was not born, therefore it was not lost. This is what I had expected and he confirmed it when we were talking on Saturday. I explained my feelings on the m/c and hopefully that will help him be more sensitive to me. He did express concern that he was starting to verbalize thoughtless or mean stuff like his Dad did to his Mom. Maybe that more than anything will keep him in a gentler mode.

I basically cried the afternoon away on Saturday. It was good actually. DH used to come up and hug me if I cried before. Now he just stands there and looks at me. Seems we've come a long way in the wrong direction.

I know in my house, I enable the less than equal status. I have done/not done things to keep the status quo. Sometimes I think I should stop cleaning and cooking and they might realize all I do. I get great lip service about where my position is, but for me actions speak louder than words. How about getting off your butt and helping me. Perhaps ask me if I want to(insert options here).

I am sorry you cried in bed. It can be harder not to be supported and comforted. I don't mind your long face one bit, so bring it on when you need to. I promise I won't get short and cranky with you. I may even join you from time to time.







Off load anytime.

Great job on the second page. I suppose you are probably more productive on an anniversary page when you are feeling lovey towards your DH. Perhaps you should balance that with an extra page that is dedicated to the raging lunatics. You wouldn't have to show it, but it would be interesting to have a 'raging' page for those down (and of course up) times.

I am glad you and your DH are back on track. It gives me hope and patience to hear others having similar struggles. (nice to be 'normal') Some days it seems like a whole lot more work than I am sure I want to put out. Some days I think it would be easier if DH didn't come home. I feel bad even writing that, but I have enough on my plate right now and sometimes I think it would be nice not to have to put all that extra effort out. Especially when he's not being so D.

Anyway, this is my novel in it's third re-write. I wish you could have had the first one, it was so much better- more eloquent.

It is time for bed for me, I guess you are at mid afternoon. I must admit I hop on here in the morning looking to see if you or Keri has posted. I get kinda bummed out when it's me as the last poster. (speaking of addict)

Have a great rest of your day.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

I understand why you were so mad with your dh. It must have been really hard to hear him making jokes about something that is so hard for you.
Men, don't u just want to slap them sometimes !

Maybe for him, he finds it easier to deal with your loss because he hadn't come to terms with the fact that you were having another child. So, not to say he didn't care, but it wasn't a reality.

I'm glad he apologised - even if u had to push for it. Hey, he might have dug his heels in and not.

It's a scary place in a marriage when you don't really like the other person so much. Been there, done that.
I am so relating to the "wanting to stay together, fighting, not liking each other, no communication, making friends, trying harder ....."

So u r the slave in your house too ! I shouldn't complain too much. Dh tries really hard to understand me and my needs, tries to help around the house, but then there are times he can be so selfish. Sometimes I just want to punch his lights out.

Then he wonders why things physically are a bit strained. He try and explain that if emotionally I'm not feeling it, it aint going to happen physically.

Marriage is hard, no jokes about that. Marriage with extra stresses (e.g.loss) really tests anyones' relationship.

I'd like to believe that dh and I have a good, strong relationship. There have been times though that I have offered to pack his suitcase for him ! He has made me feel so angry and so hurt.
On the other hand, I couldn't imagine my life without him.

So u see, you are normal. We all have our ups and downs. I think it just depends how hard u want to try to fix the bad parts, if u want to.

I also check to see if u have replied first thing in the morning. And then through the day too !! We all seem to have a bit of an addiction. oops !

I hope u r feeling better.







It's always hard when your foundation has been rocked. And those that you think would give you support, don't.

Have a good day
Tan


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

Everything ok ? U haven't been around.

Was just wondering. Missed your company









Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan,

It's all good here. I read your last post yesterday morning (my time) and thought "I can post later when I have a minute, because Tan is sleeping now" and well, that minute didn't come.

Between crafting with the kids, feeding the kids, helping BIL get stuff together for the lawyer, dealing with reno stuff (hardwood floor estimates, increasing house insurance...) I ran out of time. I also was painting last night when I would have come down. I don't think I really sat yesterday. Perhaps that is why my head is in such a good space!!

We are having the hardwood floor installed on Monday and Tuesday next week. We had an estimate done yesterday. We had been thinking we were going to install the wood floor because it 'looks' not too difficult and it would be a way to save some money. I looked up on line 'how to' and kinda thought I didn't really want to do it. DH came home yesterday and when I told him the cost of installation, he said he had been thinking about us doing it and thinking it wasn't such a good idea. They will be faster and infinately better than we will. It will also free us up to deal with the 1001 other things left to do. I am starting to feel a bit of pressure as Will's birthday is in a month and then Christmas is a month after that.

I must admit, I am getting a little tired of all the chaos and mess. My house is so dusty right now, my yard is a mess with a bunch of left over materials that we need to get rid of. My DH is going to load all that stuff up on Friday night so he can take it to the dump on Saturday morning. What a guy! He is responding positively to my "AAAHHHH!". I didn't have a spaz or anything, but just said I was feeling stressed and that I would like to get rid of that stuff and my BIL's tools are all over the place too. I suggested the dump run, DH came up with dealing with the tools. Yeah honey!!

For us, DH and I, we have never had to consciously 'work' at our relationship. It has been something that just worked, we have had great communication and generally speaking are on the same page for most things. This has been a real struggle for the both of us. We have never fought in 15 years, not saying we don't disagree, but never have come away from something with bad/sad feelings. We have never used bad names (still haven't) to each other or spoken with rage in our voices. This is a steep learning curve for the both of us. We have made it almost a week on the positive side. Maybe I'll have to go with him to the dump on Saturday...would that count as a date?









Do you do anything on you Mom's anniversary? I presume she was buried in South Africa.(?) My mom was buried in Maine. (geographically the other side of the continent from here) My grandmother took her ashes back there. I'm not sure why exactly, I don't think she should have done that. My mom was born in Newport Maine, but had not been back and didn't express any desire to go back. Honestly, I am not even sure where it is that her ashes were buried.

When my mom died, my grandmother and aunt (her mom and sister) were positively disgusting. The two of them went through the house and scavenged it of what ever they wanted. I suppose technically, they did ask me if they could have the stuff. Hmmm...let's see...I was 9, my grandmother and aunt wanted stuff from the house...what did I say..."okay". Hello you horrid, disgusting human beings...my mom just died--and she was your relative too!! I think they did that so quickly because my Dad was away at the time. They were separated, but we saw him regularly. My Dad was in Cypress when she died. They didn't even try to contact him to tell him. It was by the grace of their stupidity that he was able to find out. He was in the military and they went to a church with a military chaplin for the funeral. The chaplin contacted my Dad and he came home.

I don't have many things from my mom's house. A plastic placemat from when I was a child a china plate and a cookbook. My favorite memory of when I was growing up was when mom would make banana bread. It was so yummy and we always had to wait until the day after she baked it to eat it. When ever I make banana bread (or muffins) I can't help but think of when I was little.

I suppose I should go. I could ramble on forever. I need to get up and moving, I am feeling a little sleepy. I was up until 12:30 this morning and out of bed at 5:45 for my walk. I need coffee! That will do it. Do you drink tea? There is a Celestial Seasonings tea that comes out at Christmas time, called Candy Cane Lane. I am keeping my eye out for it and will buy extra this time. It is so tasty! Can you tell I am thinking about a hot drink now?

Talk later, I am off painting duty tonight. I get to take the boys to swimming lessons instead.

Hey, I forgot to ask if Tayga goes trick or treating. If so, what will he be?

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi Mish

How's the house ? Getting anywhere with the mess ?

We don't really celebrate halloween here. Some people do, but it's nothing like what you guys do. It looks like such fun. So, no, Tayga doesn't dress up.
What is Will dressing up as ? I assume the others are too big. ?

How are things with dh ?

Had people over for dinner last night. Having more for afternoon tea today. Wow, we really are busy entertaining at the moment. Trying to get back into the groove.

My mom is buried in South Africa. Which makes it a bit harder for closure. I never went to the funeral, and haven't been back since. Sometimes it's still so hard to believe.
I don't do anything specific on her anniversary. I should.

Got to go and bake a cake.

Chat later
Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan,

The house is coming along. The downstairs is painted and carpeted. We have to do a little touch up painting due to carpet scuffs. Trim and baseboards go in this weekend so we are hoping the boys (D&C) can move in to their new rooms this weekend too. I am painting the family room this weekend, the wood floors are being installed next week. (yeah, we're not doing it!!) I know I already said that, but I am doing a happy dance about it so had to say it again!!!

The mess, well... one day it too will go. Actually, my BIL and DH will be dealing with some of it this weekend. A few things left to do on the house outside and a dump run and it should be much better. I will certainly enjoy getting the yard back.

DH is good, so are we. One day, one week at a time. I figure the more good days we have, the easier it will be to keep on the positive and talk sooner when/if issues come up.

How are you and your DH doing? How are you doing? Are you 'coasting' or down? All this entertaining must be hard keeping 'the face' on. Are you hiding by keeping busy? Are you slaving to DH's entertainment plans or were you part of the arranging? (nosey little stinker aren't I)

Chris is going one last time to trick or treat. Will will do a few houses on the street, that's it. We are not sure how we will handle trick or treating in the future. I like to decorate the house and give out candies, but am not so keen on the kids going out. It's kind of like the Santa's lap thing at Christmas for me...under normal circumstances, we as parents, would never (willingly) put our child on a complete strangers lap...yet we do ANd we take a picture of it!! We would not encourage/allow/support our children to go begging door to door, but is that not what we do on Hallowe'en!?! I have some very strong double standards here, I like to see the little ones dressed up and to give them a treat. (btw- I don't put my children on Santa's lap)

Good for you for getting back into the groove. Once the first few times have come and gone, it should get easier. (if it has felt awkward for you that is) Do you find it hard? Is it the reconnecting or the dancing elephant in the room that is difficult? We are having an open house in early Dec. and that will be a real test/struggle for me. I think it will be easier having a bunch of people over than just a couple. Less time to talk to any one, more time on looking busy.

Have you heard from DH's work partner's defensive wife?

What kind of cake did you make and how do I get an invitation? (subtle as a dump truck aren't I!!) Warm and sunny weather sounds a lot more appealing than cold and wet. It hasn't rained a whole lot, but it does tend to be on the soggy side here. I suppose I shouldn't complain too much. It would be nice if some of that precipitation was white not just wet. I LOve snow. If we are lucky, we get a bit of snow that lasts a few days. (maybe 3" in a good year)

I should go and get some food for the family. I don't feel much like cooking tonight, lazy bones that I am.









Talk soon,

Micheline


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## HoosierDiaperinMama

I am so sorry for the loss of you precious baby, Tan.







I hope you can find some peace on his 3rd birthday.







s


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## Tan II

Thank you for the hug.
All the support does make it easier.


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

DH and I are good. We seem to be communicating better, which always makes a better vibe between us.
Our relationship sounds similar to you and your dh. We have a great relationship, and friendship. So when we do fight or have bad feelings, it is horrible.

I enjoy entertaining and having people over. DH is more anti-social !! He doesn't do well in big crowds ! I love having people over and cooking and making stuff etc !! Before everyone arrives, dh always complains about having people over. Once they have left, usually after a great evening/afternoon tea/lunch etc, he always says what fun it was, and how great it is to have people over !! So he is a bit confused !!
It didn't phase me having people over this weekend. I have been having friends over for a while. This group of people we had yesterday, were friends we haven't seen in a very long time.

In fact, I had to have a laugh at your question about the friend's defensive wife. They were the one couple !! She was fine. My point was made and all has been forgiven.
It was a great afternoon. Nice to catch up, and re-connect. Made peace with the past, and ready to move forward.

Some people I am happy to forgive and move forward with. Others I am not.

I made a yummy marble cake. I will type the recipe for u later if u want it. Soooo yum.
As far as an invite goes .... for you, anytime !!!!

How has your weekend been ? So far ours has been busy, and very social. Very nice !

Chat later
Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan-

That is funny...My DH and your DH sound very similar. Mine isn't very social either, but...same thing. When we do stuff, he says he had a great time etc too. I like making lots of food and entertaining. Good thing we don't live close or it would be a fight over whose turn it was to have the others over!









I am glad that you both are good. We are too. I have been painting like mad the last few days. Soon it will stop. Then it will be Will's b-day and then open house, my parent's visit and Christmas. Yikes! That's okay. I operate much better at 110%. I don't know what to do with free time. Heaven forbid I read a book before 2am.

I was thinking when Keri gets back we should make some kind of challenge/target. We will have to set aside time for ourselves, and time for DH's. We can be each others motivators/monitors. It is easy to say when I/we have time. Time is always lacking, something always comes up. This way, we will have to make time because we will be looking out for each other. What do you think?

Excellent that you and your friend have moved on. I too get the whole some are worth keeping 'along for the ride', while others aren't. I have found my whole circle has gotten smaller. I seem to be a bit protective of myself. Perhaps not wanting to have those 'rubberneckers' around, or the chance to find out that someone was like that.

I bake for relaxation, so yes please, I would love your marble cake recipe. I bet Keri would too. It seems that is something else we have in common.

DH picked up on a thought that I had today and finished what I was going to ask him about. That was good, we haven't done that in a while.

I suppose I should go and have a bit of a sit down with him. Haven't had much time for that today. It is almost midnight here.

I will talk to you later.

Micheline


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

Thank you for sharing....








I am about to approach the 3 year mark....it seems only a breath away, yk?


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## Tan II

It's such a strange feeling, knowing your child would have been 3 years old. It's so hard to picture them being 3 years old.


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## lolalapcat

Hello, friends!

I have missed you, Tan and Mich (and the drop-in visitors, too)! No more trips are planned this year, or even next. That is good, I love to travel, but I am ready to be home too. I've been on the road about 5 weeks out of this year, and that apparently is too much for this homebody!

Today is a sluggish one, we traveled 14 hours yesterday. It is beautiful weather, and I should be working in the yard, but maybe I'll just make some tea and sit on the porch swing...

Mich, congrats on the reno being nearly complete! Have I mentioned that we lived in this house for maybe 4 months without a bathroom sink, and 8 months without a kitchen? So when the dust and mess are driving you nutty, remind yourself that it could be worse, and it's almost over. Sometimes when I am crabbily cleaning (yes, there is a 'chore inequity' in our house too!) I remind myself that at least I'm not doing dishes in the bathtub anymore!

So what colors did you paint the new rooms?

Is the reno bothering you more than you are admitting? Since we know why the reno was being done....now I'm the nosey stinker. Finishing our spare room bothered me far more than I was willing to admit. I'm torn between regret and hope.

Tan, I'm sorry about your Mom's things being donated. That's rough. I hope you can find a tea set that reminds you of your Mom's. Wish I was there to shop in antique stores with you!

I still ache a little when I think of family things that are no longer in the family. I know it's material stuff, but I guess I need tangible reminders of loved ones lost. Hmm, now I'm wondering if I surround myself in memories too much.

Mich, your Grandma and aunt didn't do you any favors after your Mom passed away, did they? I'm sending rude thoughts their way. At least you have a couple of things that were hers, and you can commune with her memory when you bake banana bread.

I like to make things my Grandma did, and I've even discovered a couple of recipes by accident (her cookbook is in Arizona with my cousin's ex husband-aaaarrrrrghhh!). It's nice when I try a recipe out of an old cookbook and my Dad will say that his Mom used to make it.....I was not one of the favorite grandchildren, but we would be friends today. Little did she know how much I would turn out like her!

We wandered through some counties on this trip where my Mom and I have ancestry. No specific towns, no gravesites to visit, but it was powerful to walk where they once did, to see what they saw. That's an issue I have with adoption, actually. Would it bring pain to an adopted child for me to continue with my family research? Would it emphasize a connection they wouldn't have? I spent a lot of time thinking about that on this trip.

I now have a Russell lapcat. Usually it is Lola, but now the cats are taking turns! I missed them too. (Russ is my favorite, don't tell the others...)

Okay, Russ is on top of the desk. Lola is back on the lap. Don't mean to give you a play by play, but I am amused by their attention!

I don't know what to tell you about your DH's. Men and their stoicism. Mich, I wonder if your DH's bad word play was a defense mechanism--"it's okay, I'm not hurt". My hubby has admitted that he feels like a failure because of our m/c's, too. It's my body, of course I think I bear more responsibility. But he wonders if his genetic contribution has something to do with it. The genetic testing has exonerated him, but he still wonders if he has something wrong.

Just guessing. I'd rather think that your DH was being defensive than think that he was being an ass. From what you have described, that's not him. But even good guys can have bad moments, I guess.

Tan--don't overdo the happy face, it's not good for you to hide everything. Your DH will just have to put up with the long face until this time of year has passed. You can't make the emotional significance of these anniversaries go away. And the losses don't go away when the anniversaries do.

I read somewhere that it takes an average of 7 years to really move on after a loss of a loved one. I'm not sure what to do with that information, it's overwhelming.

To be fair, our husbands do get the brunt of the sadness. That may not be fair to them, but what are we to do about it? I guess I see it as we are trying to get right with the world, but it's a process, it takes time.

And we are learning. Losing a child is losing a part of your future. Like you thinking about Gabriel being 3, Tan. When we lose others, it becomes the past, like losing grandparents or your mothers. We had history with those people. We had no history with the little ones, it was yet to be written. It's a different kind of loss, an unidentified, yearning kind of hurt.

Actually, Mich, the loss of your Mom so early may kind of fall into this category too.

And Mich, I wanted to say it is really neat that Will was born at home, and his brothers were there for it. That's something I would like to experience, but if I can ever carry a child to term, I'm high risk and will have to relinquish the option of home birth. That's why I didn't comment before, it made me have to come to terms with more lack of control.

And someone who posted on the remembrance thread lost a child during birth, he was a footling breach and was in the birth canal too long. There but for the grace of God, I was a footling breach. Maybe I should spend more time just being grateful I am here.

So off I go, I'll try to spend the day in gratitude instead of grief and sentimentality. Wish me luck, my porch swing awaits!

Keri









Meditation:

My grief and pain are mine. I have earned them. They are part of me. Only in feeling them do I open myself to the lessons they can teach.

--Anne Wilson Schaef


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## Tan II

Welcome Back Keri !!!! I was wondering when you were due back. Nice to have u with us again









Thanks for today's meditation. I really like it. I think I'm going to write it down and put it somewhere I can re-read it now and then.

Mish, I'll get the recipe book and type the marble cake recipe for u later on.

I like the idea of making time to spend with dh. Good idea. It is something we always say we will do, and never get around to it. IT's so easy to slip into that rut of not spending time together.

I have to collect Tayga from school, so I will have to chat more later !

Tan


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## Tan II

This morning was a bad one. Tayga was impossible, I was tired.
I ranted and raved like a lunatic. Now he's at school, and I feel terrible. Like I'm a bad mother.

How do u find the balance between making the rules and sticking to them, and giving them (kids) the chance to make their own choice.

I'm tired of having to negotiate all the time. If I say no, why can't no be no. I don't feel like negotiating and hearing 50 reasons why no can be yes. (or am I being unreasonable, and is that part of being a headstrong 7 year old ?).

I feel like I am going mad. How much more can I do for him ? I do so much, and more. I don't feel like it's enough.
I worry, am I spending enough time with him, giving him enough attention, shouting too much, giving in too quickly....

Having a bad morning, needed to unload.

Tan







:


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## lolalapcat

Oh, Tan, I'm so sorry you are having such a bad day!

I'm not really in a position to give parenting advice, you know. But I'm going to anyway!

Try taking a pause and thinking before giving Tayga an answer. You may find that you can say 'yes' more often, on small things that don't really matter, and that will help satisfy his need for autonomy.

But when you say 'no', it should be unnegotiable. You are the Mom. That is not an unreasonable expectation.

Just my humble opinion.

It actually does come from the 'Psych. of Social Behavior' class I took in college. Animals and humans will work harder if they are not sure of the result...if the reward is random and unpredictable. So if you are not consistent and predictable, your headstrong son will keep trying to get the desired result. Because sometimes it works.

That you examine the job you do as a parent is a pretty good indicator of your investment in your kids, and I know you spend time with them and give them attention. You are doing a fine job, Tan.

I do hope your day has gotten better! Vent all you need to, you know we will listen, and reel you back in from the edge!

K


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

Thanks for your words. I felt better reading them. Your "humble opinion" is just great.

Last night I sat with him and had a calm, long chat. I gave him lots to think about. Things like " if you are horrible and rude, then it comes back to you. If you are nice and friendly, it comes back to you...."
I could feel by the end of the conversation, he "got it", and was less angry and aggressive and defiant. *big sigh*

The poor kid was fighting to cry during our conversation. He wouldn't. I said to him "it's ok to cry. Sometimes you feel better once you cry". So he said "but mom, you never cry."
OOPS.

Let's hope we're on a new path, and better behaviour.

I hate shouting at him. Sometimes I wonder what the neighbours think - if they can hear. They must think I am a "raging lunatic" !!

He is really a good, kind, loving kid. He knows exactly what to do to push the boundary.

DH thought it would be a good idea if Tayga and I spent quality time together. Just him and me. So saturday we have been booked into a hotel in the city for the night !! We'll mess around, go for ice-cream, go for dinner. Maybe a movie. We might just order room service and jump on the bed !!
It should be fun. I am looking forward to it. I think we need to have this time together.
DH will stay at home with Jamie. How amazing is he !

How is everyone else ? I hope you are all doing well.

Happy Halloween !! Was it fun ?
It isn't a holiday we celebrate here, although some try to !

My alarm clock has just gone to wake me up !! Ha ha. Someone tell Jamie I'm only meant to wake-up now !! Not serious. At least I get going early, and have a quick bit of time to check emails and postings before the rush begins !

Chat later, better get moving !

Tan


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## Mammax4

*HAPPPY HALLOWEEN*

Hey Tan and Keri!
Keri- Welcome home. Not only back to your house, but here with us!

The wood floor has been delayed. It will be started tomorrow and depending on a 1 or 2 man crew might even be finished by the end of the day.







:

I painted the upstairs room (livingroom) a really rich red colour. It is called 'velvety merlot'. I have another coat to do, which will bring it to 4 rollings and 5 cuttings. Hopefully that will be enough. Dan picked a light grey colour for his room. He wanted black, but we vetoed that right away, he's not batman and doesn't need to live in a cave! Chris picked a muted yellow sort of colour. (Sweet Marzipan, it looks like wheat.) We are painting the kitchen a grey/green colour. Hopefully the boys will be in their new rooms this weekend. We haven't got the baseboards on yet, so they have to wait.

I try not to think about why we started the reno too much. Really, we did need the extra space anyway. We only had 3 bedrooms to begin with. I am glad that the project wasn't started before the miscarriage. I do think about the crib that is in pieces in my garage...where it was going to be set up...that Will would have had to share his room with a sibling. So, yes...the reno is bothering me more than I am putting out there. I guess I am trying to race to the finish line so I don't have to think about my journey along the way.

I have been thinking (a lot lately) about the maternity clothes I bought...they are sitting in a bag in my closet. I should really get rid of them, sell them or give them away-- I just can't seem to get there. It is like a sharp pain to see them, but to have them not there anymore would be worse right now. I realized last week that I didn't know how far along I would have been in my pregnancy. Prior to that I could have told you weeks and days. I am not sure when that happened, but I felt good/bad about it. I was a little obsessive about being pregnant last week...I wished for it like crazy. Sometimes I think I should get a hysterectomy so that I can't get pregnant anymore and that would help. (stupid I know and no, I am not getting one) Sometimes I think I should have the fertility clinic on speed dial, so that if one day in the next 5 + years, DH doesn't come home anymore I can get on that right away.







(disgusting really isn't it!) It makes me feel bad. I want him to come home but he is the reason why I won't be pregnant again. (blame, blame, blame)

Keri, I too wish that DH was having a defensive mechanisim moment. He wasn't. He doesn't see this as a loss. I think (know) he is relieved that the baby stopped developing rather than be born with potential defects. That is one of his greatest fears...having a child with a chromosonal abnormality or birth defect of some kind. It comes from (I believe) his age, segregation was the ONly way when he was growing up. (DH is 13 years older than me) Ignorance breeds fear, and he is fearful!

I am not bothered by my grandma and aunt having the stuff that they do as much as I am bothered by how they took it. Should I mention now that my gm had my mom's wedding dress and she wouldn't let my little sister wear it when she got married!?! The dress that my mom married her (my) Dad in!! I have some anger issues with that side of my family. (ya think?)

I suppose I shouldn't be so disrespectful when referring to my mother. As a Mom now myself, I know what I think is reasonable and appropriate behaviour. I know how I parent was influenced (understatement) by what I experienced growing up. I don't think that I would have much of a relationship with my mom if she was still living. Too many things under my bridge... I honestly don't miss her, but then I suppose I have lived about 2 1/2 times longer without her as I did with her.

Keri, are you familiar with Doulas? Perhaps that would be something to consider when the time comes. She could be an advocate of your birth plan, to help keep as much as possible the way you would like it. Is it multiple losses that puts you as high risk? (nosey...my turn) Did you know I am a Doula?









I wouldn't worry about adoption being in conflict with geneological research. To be related by blood is a 'side effect' of birth; to be related by choice is a conscious action taken and maintained by our day to day efforts.

Tan, I am sorry you had such a start to the day with Tayga. 'No means no' is a phrase used here too. Fortunately, with less frequency than in the past. The trouble with being an involved parent is you have to be involved! Just think how much easier it would be to say....'sweetie, you just go ahead and do what you'd like, I don't mind'. Unfortunately, there are parents out there that don't actively participate in how their children are experiencing the world. You will be thankful later for all the grey hairs you get now. I am by no means an expert (of course I am, just trying to be modest..) but we are told all the time what great kids we have. That is because we nag and demand and limit etc... My life would be so much easier if the kids did what ever they wanted! Now it would be (perhaps), but we would pay dearly later.

The boundary pushing keeps going, our older guys still do it. The bright side is they are much more receptive and responsive to reason. I am not saying we don't over do it/over react sometimes, but we do go and say sorry and then discuss the situation. It is good for kids to see parents mess up and hold themselves accountable for the mess up. It makes us more approachable I think. Do as I say, not as I do doesn't work anymore. We need to be able to own our mess ups if we expect our kids to feel comfortable being open with us.

I should get off the computer now. I would say sorry for the novel; but I'm not. I haven't been on for 3 days!!! It may be a little hit and miss for the next bit, but I will do my best to keep up. I was painting my ass off over the last 3 days. (excuses, excuses!) I had to go shopping last night and it took 4 hours...no wonder I have no time. Who needs groceries anyway!!

Talk soon,

Micheline









I read this (or something like it) somewhere the other day... I like it.

_I would rather be hated for the person I am than loved as a person I am not._


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## Tan II

Mish, I like the paint colours you have chosen. It sounds so "happy". I lol about Dan and his bat cave - not !

I'm sorry the maternity clothes are confronting. What ever you decide to do with them, do when you are ready - in your own time.
This is your journey, and u r taking it step by step. One day you'll look back and see how far you have come.

I think Tayga and I have reached a crisis point, where from now on it will be good. Hopefully. He seemed better this morning. More cooperative.
I hope he took in the points I made last night, and he moves forward. I suppose just like anything in life, one learns from different experiences. Our arguing and settling it all is no different.

I love being involved with my kids. I do see a difference in kids who have parents who are involved in their lives, and those who aren't.
It's hard work, but the end result will be well worth it. When my boys are adults, I won't have to work at building a relationship. It will be there. (or so I hope)

I think it is wonderful that you have great kids. It's ok to boast !! If u don't who will









My SIL's tell dh that he is too hard on Tayga. That is why my child has manners, and is considerate to others, and their kids are rude and horrible !

I agree that it is good that kids see that their parents are "human" and can make mistakes. If I do something wrong, I admit it to Tayga and say "you see, even moms make mistakes".

I suppose who said having kids was easy ! Mine didn't even come with an instruction manual. Did yours ?? Would love to know where the volume button is ! Ha ha









Good luck with the rest of the painting !

Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan,

Quote:

_My SIL's tell dh that he is too hard on Tayga. That is why my child has manners, and is considerate to others, and their kids are rude and horrible !_
That cracks me up! MY sister told me (about 6 years ago) that I/we were mean. (to our kids) Boy, is she singing a different tune now! She has a lot of struggles with her older boy, he will be 13 in May. Her younger one is pretty darn cheeky too, more so than I would be~~and he will turn *4* in April 07!! She has reeled it in more than before, but MAn! I bet they call me 'Auntie Bi*ch' in private. I temper myself with them, but I certainly call them on any really out of line stuff.

I am off to get the boys organized for swimming and trick or treating... I will check in later.

Micheline aint

mine didn't have a manual either...


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## lolalapcat

Hooray, Mich is back and Tan is better!

Mich, I thought of you yesterday---did you dress up? I wasn't quite in the mood for Halloween this year (gone too much, etc.) but we really had the cutest kids at our door! I almost got to keep one, she apparently had been naughty and was offered in trade for the candy bowl.....the mom didn't realize how serious I was!

Yeah, I wondered about your reno. Didn't know it would be clothes torturing you, though. Is your DH's age the primary reason he doesn't want more kids? We are both nosey! Anyway, there's no speeding through this process, sorry to tell you. I tried. Doesn't work.

I'll make you a deal, you can get rid of your maternity clothes when I get rid of my 'what to expect when you're expecting' book. That and 'nutrition during pregnancy'. Those got moved to the bottom shelf, obviously. It's not just getting rid of stuff, it is getting rid of hope, isn't it? Sometimes I wanna burn the books, but I'm not there quite yet, darn it anyway.

No, your thinking about a hysterectomy isn't stupid. I cried when my genetic tests came back normal. Then I cried when DH's came back normal. I wanted permission to not have to try anymore, to not be consumed by the process, to just move on and stop thinking about my flawed body and tiny dead babies. Keri=petri dish. So I totally, completely get it, and am pleased to have you join me in the 'do I really want to admit this' club.

Two different drs have referred to me as high risk, I'm not sure what the qualifiers for that are, other than the 'fetal wasting'. There is obviously something wrong with my body (duh) and they can't figure out what. Anyway, I'm a chicken. Between the breech thing running in the family (I know, not genetic, but still, my Mom was breech too), and my cousin needing multiple blood transfusions due to massive bleeding with her first birth, I don't know if I could NOT be in a medical setting if I get to that point. Chicken.

And no, I'm not familiar with doulas, since that would be such a hopeful thing to learn about. I'm realistic, I'm not researching too far in advance. But I knew you had mentioned being a doula, so I'll be quizzing you should I be so lucky! If I needed a doula, the distance would kill me, since you know who I'd pick!

Dan's bat cave!









Love the colors you and the boys picked! I wanted a deep red somewhere in the house, and didn't get it...my DH was actually quite invested in the paint colors, darn it anyway. The gray-green has me intrigued, it sounds lovely.

Tan, good for you and Tayga getting away together! It sounds like he has come to an understanding of 'cause and effect'. Your DH rocks, btw. I hope you have tons of fun!

Aren't kids always pushing the boundaries, since they are constantly growing and changing and becoming more independent? I guess I just thought that was a natural state.

I can't compare child rearing methods, but people think we are mean to our dog because we expect good behavior. When we first moved here he ran across the street and peed on the neighbors bushes, and I brought him yelping back across the street by the scruff of his neck, with witnesses. They must have thought I was awful, but we spent a lot of time teaching Roms the boundaries of the unfenced yard, so he wouldn't get smashed by a car or make the neighbors mad. He doesn't jump on people, beg at the table, bark at other dogs, pull on the leash....all because my DH and I were 'mean' to him. (The dog is NOT abused, he's completely spoiled!)

Novel, novel, novel! Last thoughts: Mich, I haven't really picked up on disrespect towards your Mom, just realistic assessment. And I would like to smack your grandma, for the love of Pete. Tan, are you really doing okay? You sounded much better in the last post, but you have been putting on the happy face lately. It's okay if you are actually happy. But unload if you need to.

Gotta go to w*rk. Late, late.

Love you guys! I am so glad to be back!

Keri


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## Mammax4

Good Morning! (at least it was morning when I started this...)

Keri, I think how people interact with their animals is an indication of how they would be with kids. I chose the trainer I did because her methods are in line with how we are. I suppose really, that is what it boils down to... who you are (beliefs, values, ideals etc.) doesn't change with what you are nurturing.

You have been mentioning adoption more frequently lately... are you thinking more about going that way? Am I reading more into your posts than you are meaning to put out?? We looked into adopting after Chris. We were told (quite bluntly) that we wouldn't be chosen as we had two children already. They said they would infact direct birthMothers away from us, as they would want the children to be special.







: My reply was I thought all children were special regardless of how they came into a family or where they fell in the birth order. That was private adoptions, the Gov't Ministry adoption list has an average wait of 10 years for a newborn. Neither give guarentees of success as it is the birth parents that pick the adoptive family.

DH's primary motivation changes from his age to money. Which ever is most relevant at the time. I guess what he is telling me, in a less than direct manner, is he is done. I do understand that. It is sad for me, because I would like to NOT be done. Realistically, we were done and then had Will, so I should be grateful he was willing to go that far. He could have said no to either of the surgeries and we would not have Will. (we had to pay for both reversals) My problem is I could keep going and going....I might never stop. I love everything about being (and staying) pregnant. That isn't a realistic situation either.

The first thing out of my mouth after Dan was " Okay honey...I'm ready to go again!" (seriously!!)

My sister delivered her first son as a footling breech. She had to call a nurse in to check her because she felt something weird 'down there'. Lo and behold if there wasn't a little foot hanging out of her cervix! Other than not being allowed to push, there were no complications in delivery.

A medical setting might be just the place for you... (I thought of some really cheeky things to say after that, but took the less cheeky road







) The place that would allow you to be the most relaxed is best. Fear and tension are not conducive to a productive labour. Fear and tension also increase pain reception. (fear/tension/pain triangle)

At that time, ask me first and I will see what I can do.

Check out the Behr site- the grey/green is called Fossil Stone. You will get a good idea of what it looks like. Not all colours come through as they are IRL.

Tan, I too have been wondering about you lately. Are you waiting to exhale after November is over? I don't want to push, but remember we are here for you. This is a safe place, we won't judge you--but we will stand with you as this time progresses. Would it help to know I expect you to be sad/mad/down/raging? Don't try to keep it in too long, it will turn your insides out.

I think your DH is great for recognizing your need for a Mom/Tayga date. That will be so much fun!! Are you both going to choose things to do or are you going freestyle?

Now, about the 'challenge'...are you both in? If so, I was thinking we should figure out what is reasonable (time wise) for our schedules and let each other know what it will be. Thoughts??

I must get ready for lunch, it will be time to feed the masses momentarily.

btw-floor is going in now as we speak, I did not dress up yesterday--just black and orange clothes and some jack-o-lantern socks. Will had a good time, he went to 9 houses. We came home had hot chocolate with mini marshmallows and he went to sleep on the couch.(snuggled in between Dad and Uncle with my blanket on him!) That little stinker woke up at 5:30 yesterday morning! I was a lazy bones last night- no painting at all!!

Later!

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi Friends

Thank you for "holding my hand" and just being there for me. It is amazing what a difference it makes to know there are people out there who..... are "just there". I don't know how else to put it.

I am feeling ... ok. When I think about the dates coming up, I feel nauseous and sad. It's the anticipation. I know once the dates have passed, I'll be ok.

I feel quiet. Not happy, not sad - pensive. Make any sense?

I am looking forward to the weekend with Tayga. I think it will be good for us, and also TLC for me. To have that unconditional love from him, and the quality time. I almost think it will be like a tonic.

I joined a baby/toddler group for Jamie. Yesterday was my second time. It was such fun. He loved it, and I loved it. It is so nice to be around other moms with babies. It's so nice to be around other people - not always on my own (poor me !).
It's a nice group of moms and babies.
Anyway, the one mother I was talking to, was telling me how her baby had been born 5 weeks prem and how now he's doing so well.
I nodded and smiled while she was telling the story, and nodded and smiled. Was busy thinking ... "been there, done that, you should only know".
I did not want to share Gabriel with her. Not yet.

I had to laugh. The one mom asked me if I have any other kids. So of course I said yes. They asked how old. I said 7 ! They looked at me like "wow ! A 7 year old !!" I almost think they thought I was a first time mom !! Ha ha ! Sorry ladies, been doing this for a while









It's times like that , I hate the question "how many kids do u have?". I'd love to include Gabriel, but it was not an appropriate time or place.

Keri, what is the next step for you ? Where are you up to in your journey ? I think you should keep your "what to expect ...."book for a little longer. Just in case. (I'm the eternal optimist).

I go to a book club every month. We put $10 in and buy books and then each have a turn to read them. Anyway, what I'm getting to. Is that a girl in my group sounds like she had the same difficulty as you Keri, with keeping a pregnancy. She told me she had to have injections. I don't have all the details, but what I wanted to tell you, is that she didn't have much chance. Guess what, her son is 16 months. So there is hope. Don't give up yet.

Mish, I can relate to you and having more kids ! I feel the same way ! All 3 births have been drug free, natural. They were all easy, short births. So I suppose it was easy to get through it. I agree though, that fear increases pain. No fear=no pain !!
DH knows that I would like to have another. At first he said "no way". Lately when the subject has come up, he hasn't put up too much of a fight.

I think Tayga and I will freestyle. Play it by ear and decide as we go along ! It should be fun









DH and I have made a decision about Tayga and school. We are going to move him for the next school year (starts in January).
The school all his friends went to, and the one he wanted to go to is zoned (you need to live in the area to get in). We are not zoned, so he had to go to another school.
I think that is one of the problems at the moment. He is unhappy where he is.
We have waited 2 years now, to get him in. It seems that he is in for next year. I haven't told him yet. I want to make sure. I think he'll be so happy, and that it will make a difference. I hope so.
So that all came about yesterday. The decision to really move him, and making a plan.
It will be nice for me too, most of my friends are there.

It's raining and miserable today. What happened to spring ? Oh, I forgot, this is Melbourne !!! 4 seasons in a day !

BTW, do you watch Grey's anatomy ? I love that show. We just finished the next series. As mucu as I love it, it actually makes me sad. Sometimes it hits a bit of a nerve. A bit too close to home. Probably why most Tuesdays I am down (the show is on monday night).

Going to make a hot cup of coffee and get pics together for another page of my anniversary scrapbook. Jamie is sleeping, so I have some time-out.

Chat later. Thank you for the support and being there.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi, invisible friends!

So Mich, did Will dress up? Come on, gimme some details! I'm obviously still in a Halloween mood, probably due to the leftover candy I am still eating!

Tan, pensive/quiet is all right, in my humble opinion. That sounds like a very balanced way to feel about the upcoming dates. I have more to say, but I think you're the one who should determine the direction of this conversation.

What is this challenge you are talking about, Mich? I've caught passing references, but no details. Bring it on, I know I have issues to work on!

Tan, I kinda want to challenge you to something, if that's okay. I want you to open up a little bit more with the other moms in the play group. Not bare your soul, mind you, but acknowledge Gabriel. Because I know that's really important to you.

And if you don't open up, how will you ever meet those angel people in life, the ones who understand and will lend you some real-life kindness? You will have to go through some of the 'stunned silence' people, but there are other people out there who have walked on our paths, and are willing to listen a bit, if only they know who needs them. And they may need you, too.

I'm going to work on that one too. Why don't I have kids? Let me tell you, so you don't ask that question so casually in the future. Or so you can share with me your own experiences, and maybe throw me some hope.

And thanks for remaining optimistic for me! I haven't given up all hope, but I do kinda feel that our road is adoption. Instincts? Intuition? I don't know. Realism? Maybe. I knew before we started trying for kids that it would not be an easy road. The stats on my autoimmune disorder and pregnancy were clear, but it wasn't just that. I just knew. And I swear, I am not a fatalist.

So the next step is calling the new clinic, and getting on the road to another pregnancy. Damn it. If there was no hope, I couldn't do it. And I have seen stats, 60 to 75% of women who have recurrent pregnancy loss do go on to complete a pregnancy. Blah blah blah. I am not a statistic.

Adoption is less bleak here, Mich. The approximate wait is 6 months to 2 years. If we are willing to accept any race of child, the wait is shorter. We don't care about the color of the child, but we do live in a small white town, and have to take into consideration the comfort level a 'different' child would feel here. We are likely to have kids attend school in the town I work in, which has more diversity. It's too much to think about sometimes, you know?

But we can go through government, private agencies, nonprofit agencies, private adoption....once again, too much to think about. I'll start up that hill when we come to it. You have made me glad I'm not dealing with Canada's system though...10 years? No previous kids? Eeeek. Hadn't even thought of those things.

Injections? IvIg, progesterone, steroids, could've been a lot of things. I'm starting to dig in my heels with the frankensteinian treatments. Not afraid of needles, just tired of the hyperinvasiveness in something that shouldn't be so hard. If it's that hard, maybe it's not meant to be, at least not for me.

I'm getting closer to calling the clinic, I swear.

Tan, that's great about Tayga's school! That could make a huge difference, it's no fun to be in a school where you have to make friends from scratch. Character building yes, but there's time for that when he's not such a little guy!

Mich, don't censor your cheekiness! I can take honesty, and alway enjoy a good laugh!

Gotta go, it's another late start! Talk to you soon...

Keri, who is just here


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## Mammax4

Yes, Will did dress up. He was a bear! He went trick or treating at 9 houses. He enjoyed it, especially the hot chocolate afterwards.

Challenge:

1) Spend time (date or ??) with DH, hopefully sharing conversation as well as what ever activity.

2) Do something for you, some 'me time' that is not something you usually do. (reading a book in bed at 2am doesn't count)

My thought was that it is really easy to give 'lip service' to how important these things are and yet at the same time, life is so busy it is easy to put it all on the back burner. If we are actively making time to do these things they will be more likely to happen. We can encourage each other to keep it up. My thinking is if we make these priorities, when/if stuff comes up, it will be easier to get through it. There will be a stronger connection with DH, and we ourselves will be in a better space to deal with stresses if we make time for self care.

Any other ideas? What do you think?

Tan, that is great about Tayga's school. Maybe for more than just Tayga! We have the same boundary/zone issues here. We are lucky and in the 'catchment' for a great school.

I haven't watched Grey's Anatomy. I have heard it is good. I like House..he is so obnoxious!

I have to go for now, Chris has homework to do on the computer.

Talk later,

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi All

Mish, I'm happy to take you up on your challenge. I think it's a great idea.

I haven't watched House in ages. I used to love that show, but then found it got a bit boring. All the episodes were pretty much the same plot, just different characters.

Keri, I will take you up on your challenge, but when the time is right. This group of moms isn't a mother's group. It's a baby class. So when we chat, it's in-between the songs or activities we are doing with our kids. So it is difficult to have a serious conversation. It'll also depend if any friendships are formed. I'm not going into my life history with people I have no intention of building a relationship with. Hopefully this will lead to new friends. It seems like there are some nice girls there. (Girls !! I forget my age !!)

I'm feeling relieved about Tayga going to a new school. Especially the one that was our first choice when we were looking.
I'm a bit nervous though. We have to tell a little white lie to get in. We have to be living in the zone to be eligible. So a friend of ours who lives in the zone, who isn't going to that school said we can use her address. We will lease her property from her (on paper)as if we are living there. A few months down the line, we will "move" to our real address.
I feel terrible for doing this. I hate telling lies. I am not a good liar. This goes againts what dh and I believe in. On the other hand, you do what ever you can for your children's happiness. Well, that's how I am justifying it.
I know it's the right thing for him, and us.

Tomorrow is mine and Tayga's sleepover in the city ! He is so excited ! It's going to be fun. I must admit, I am excited too. Although I feel sad about leaving dh and Jamie. Silly, I know, because it's only 1 night. But we always do stuff together as a family.
It will be good for dh to spend 24hrs with Jamie too ! To see it's not a piece of cake ! I'm sure he'll cope just fine. He's very capable and hands-on.

Btw Keri, I am happy to hear your thoughts on my upcoming dates. Sometimes hearing how someone else sees things helps you to have a different perspective on things.
Or questions asked or points made, help you to push yourself to face things you don't want to, but should.
So ask away. What's the worst that can happen ? I'll ignore the question !

Feeling a little anxious. Silly, i know. I always worry when dh and I travel without the other. I have this stupid "what if" fear. It's not even like I am travelling, or going far.

Have you called the clinic yet?

I went to the scrapbooking store and bought paper and stuff for 2 more double pages. I'm really getting into this scrapbooing thing. And "getting it" ! I'm finding it fun now, and not so over-whelming like before.

Going to make a cup of tea and go and read in bed. It's 9.30pm which is so early for me to be doing something like that ! What a treat !!

Have a great weekend. I will fill you in on our city sleep-over !

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Good chilly morning, or evening as it may be!

Mich, I really had other plans this weekend. I can't believe your challenge has already, well, challenged me! What kind of time line are you thinking here? Time with DH and time for self once a week, or every day....what in the world would I do with time for my self? I guess I could trim my split ends and repaint my toenails.

Tan, my challenge to you was not meant to be so deep or revealing. Not a conversation with the moms in the class (thanks for explaining, some things are lost on this non-mom), but an acknowledgment of Gabriel's existence. Just in passing, not in depth. How many kids? Three, Jaime, our 7 year old Tayga, and we lost our baby Gabriel 3 years ago. Just a fact, in the course of normal small talk. It sounds like this would be a good setting to test-drive this, since there isn't really space for conversation.

The only reason I'm pushing you to do this is that NOT acknowledging Gabriel seems to bother you an awful lot. So acknowledge him. If it opens up too many wounds, or conversations you don't want to have, then you can stop. But it may help you.....you will never know until you try.

And I was just going to ramble on about sad anniversaries, not really pick your brain. I trust you to give us a tour of what's going on in there, when you are ready!

My sad anniversaries are not as major as yours, the loss was not as intense. I still get pretty moody though. My MO is to forge ahead, replace the sad memories with normal old sorta happy ones.

Grey's Anatomy? Drives me a little nutty. We never meant to start watching it (another medical drama? how about another lawyer or police drama? yippee.) But the characters are pretty intriguing, with the exception of Meredith. Who could like her? She's like Scarlett O'Hara...are you familiar with Gone With The Wind? Utterly unlikeable protagonist, IMHO.

So I roll my eyes at the ridiculous medical cases that all, miraculously, show up at Seattle Grace (people impaled to one another? pregnant man? 2 uteruses? for the love of pete, where are all the ear infections?) and keep watching because I enjoy some of the characters. And yes, all the baby storylines bother me. Is there any other theme they could replay over and over?

So what is your take on it, Tan?

A bear! That is so cute, so little kid innocent. Our godson was a monkey, I eagerly await the photos. He just started crawling, I have yet to witness it.

And Tan, I feel the same about lying, I'm bad at it and rarely, rarely do it. But it seems the govt bureaucracy is keeping you from making logical decisions that are in your child's best interests. And you will be moving to that address, so I will stand with you in your logic.

Isn't time on this board time for ourselves? It feels pretty indulgent to me, like a mental health free-for-all...

Okay, I have to finish up some laundry and vacuum, before going to work! So much for me-time!

Happy reno, scrapbooking, and weekend of fun!

Keri


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## Mammax4

I am totally open to discussion as to 'how' this challenge looks and when we start it. I think we should start sooner than later, as it is couple care and self care- easy to put off, but important to get going.

I will share my thoughts on what I think this should look like;

1) DH and self care time could rotate one the first week, the other the next week. Being realistic, I thought one night per week for this would be enough to fit in the schedule.

2) It has to be something that is not 'regular maintanence' ie: self haircut or toenail painting wouldn't count. Meeting a friend for coffee or lunch, or going for a walk or taking a class that you have always wanted to would count. For me, I will not count my 6am walk as 'me time'. This board...well it is self care, but I think that would be taking the easy way out of self care. It is really like regular maintanence, but it is also us time. But if IRL we were to talk, then it could be a phone conversation and that shouldn't count.

What would your schedules allow? Realistically, I think once every other week rotating between DH and me would be more real, sad to think I would only be able to fit in one time a month for DH and one for me. That is why I thought it should be something every week.

House is the same situation with different variables,







but I love how brutally honest he is. (even though he has no bed side manner let alone tact) I like the thinking outside of the box and challenging others. (shit disturber at heart that I am perhaps!)

I am on the same page with regards to lying. Don't like it, don't do it, REAlly don't like it done to me. I wouldn't beat yourself up about this address situation. (people do it here all the time- we now have to prove residency with a utility bill for the address)

Tan, your travel fear is not silly...I would guess it comes from the same place as the leaving the kids too young does.

Gotta go get snack for the kids. I will check in later. Tan, have a great time with Tayga. Keri, hope you have fun plans for the weekend. This would be a good time for self care... don't you have Thanksgiving dinner next weekend?

Bye for now

Micheline


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## StacieM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tan II* 
One child does not replace another.

Time does heal, and we do move forward. We still remember. And he is still very much part of our family.
When you ask my 7 year old how many brothers do you have? He will say 2. I am very proud of him.

What a great post! Before I would have thought that parents who try again so soon after a loss are just trying to fill a void, but now I know that that's not true. I too feel like no other child will ever replace this one, but I still want to try again (Which really surprises me). Like you, I will always remember. Relatives may not, but I know DH and I will. We didn't tell our other kids anything because we knew how much they want another brother or sister. We had planned to wait to tell them so that their wait for their sibling to arrive wouldn't be so long. They still know nothing.

Since we never told them, they never have to know, but I am beginning to wonder if I should tell them someday. Let them know they have another brother or sister. I don't know if I should or not. I don't know when would be a good time. I feel like I should let them know. This baby will always be one of my babies - that's so cool that your son says he has two brothers! I would be proud too.


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## lolalapcat

Stacie--may I offer an opinion?

If your kids are pretty young and may not quite understand, I might wait to tell them.

But I have become convinced that being more open will help confront the myth that all pregnancies and births are happy happy happy, when in reality, they can be very scary and very sad. Not that I want to frighten anyone, but being realistic...well, none of us would feel so alone and isolated in the real world if everyone was a bit more realistic and open and honest, would we?

I have a friend who found out that, beyond her 5 siblings, her mom had miscarried a few times and had some premature births in which the babies did not survive (something like 12 total pregnancies, bless her heart). My friend traveled to another state where these little brothers and sisters lay, in a rural cemetary that required a mountain hike to get to. She wanted to pay her respects to her siblings. Your children may feel the same way about their lost sibling, you just won't know until you cross that bridge.

I'm sorry you are losing this little one of yours. We do feel your pain.









Mich, sometimes it is a miracle when I can fit in something like painting toenails! But I get it, taskmaster! It is a bit late for me to plan anything fun with friends for this weekend, but maybe I can sucker my DH into going out tonight. We haven't been to a movie in, literally, years.

You are right, self care and marriage care do fall to the wayside. And I don't even have kids taking up my time!

If I can 1)conquer the basement jungle, which I'm working on today 2)empty out the one unfinished closet and put it to better use, after mudding and taping...you know the drill! 3)get the kitchen organized, then maybe I will allow myself some more free time. I used to have hobbies, believe it or not! Home ownership has created some issues with that....

Okay, I just got off the phone with my Dad, who is helping my DH load shelving into our truck. My brother apparently is lonely, working 12 hour days 6 days a week, and has volunteered to help assemble shelving in our basement on Monday, if he can do 4 loads of laundry. So I am taking Monday off, and perhaps the basement clutter will finally be under some semblance of control.

Is that a fun enough weekend for you? I do eagerly await the sense of accomplishment! Does it count as fun if I play disco music and have a cocktail while working?

Mich, I have an overactive guilt complex--even skirting the truth will keep me awake at night. It's better for the soul to tell the truth. It's nice to find yet another commonality between us. It's unfortunate that Tan's school districting has put her in the position that being completely honest will put Tayga at the bottom of the list...

I think they changed the laws here, so your children can attend any school they want. It used to be you would have to pay into that district in addition to being taxed in your own, but my understanding is that burden has been lifted. It's may be a benefit of living in a low population state.

Anyhow. Thanksgiving is in a couple of weeks. Mmmm, turkey! We are hosting, I'm not sure who is attending. At this point the head count is 6. I have 2 new tablecloths, red or purple, red or purple....can't decide!

I will spend time with friends before Thanksgiving...I haven't seen anyone in the last month, due to all the travel. Not good, I know.

Hmmm. Doctors with no tact. My family physician, after my 2nd m/c, asked if we had started looking at adoption. I cried for 2 weeks, at every opportunity. But I appreciate her honest assessment of our chances for a biological child. That's where I am at, but DH is not there. Wish he had been at that dr. appointment with me, maybe his perspective would be more in line with mine.

At this point, I'll take House! I found out after the fact, that if progesterone is low during a pregnancy, it is probably doomed. My RE put me on progesterone and let me think the problem was corrected. Maybe House would have had me more prepared, instead of stupidly hopeful.

Wow. Must deal with bitterness. I thought most of it was gone. Nope.

Okay, at this negative juncture, I must get to work in the house. I will work on processing the bitterness. And talk to DH about date, rising to the challenge!

Meditation for the day:

Feeling the light within, I walk.
Navajo Night Chant

That's really lovely, isn't it? And pretty darn accurate. We just have to keep going, we weren't meant to dwell in the dark for too long.

I hope Tan and Tayga are having a great time! I may jump on the bed, out of tribute to their weekend! Mich, you have some sort of fun too!

Sigh. Back to lunatic, Keri














:


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## Mammax4

Stacie, I am sorry for your loss.

I agree it may not be age appropriate to share with your children. At the same time, it depends on how your family operates. It would be a good thing for your children to know why Mommy and Daddy are sad too. It would be better for them to know the 'why' than to be worrying and wondering.

Keri, can you hear the crack of my whip?!?









I don't think it is necessary to spend the whole day/night in self care/marriage care. It would be great to think that was possible. (I know for me it is not, especially right now.) It can even be an hour of sitting down having a cup of coffee (tea, juice ...) and a conversation. We all need to be realistic about what is reasonable to accomplish. We want to be excited about it, not overwhelmed by what we should be doing instead. (should is such a bad word isn't it!)

Home ownership is a great time commitment, but it doesn't need to all get done in a day. The jobs will wait and be there when we get to them. (no fairies for that, unfortunately) I have found that for me this chaos has created a great buffer for life right now. There are a lot of things that need to get done, but it is important not to use that as an excuse for no s&m care.







(that would be self and marriage care)

Nope, fixing the basement won't count. But, if you sit down and put your feet up after for a cocktail and some disco in the background, that could count!

Have you talked to your DH about how you feel, where you are at right now? What is your perspective? Is that something you feel comfortable sharing? Is your perspective right now how you really feel, or is it that you are tired of the process and afraid of going again? (I am obviously making some assumptions here, but that is what I am picking up from your last few posts)

It IS amazing how much negative energy (anger/bitterness) can still be with you, and you not be aware of it. I know when I have spoken about the first reversal dr., I am surprised at how much is there right under the surface.

I am sure that if I am not totally honest, there is a light that shines from my roof top to indicate to all what a liar, liar pants on fire I am. (I *know* that is not really the case, but I suck at lying...and am glad!) We tell our children that regardless of what the truth is, lying will always get you into more trouble than the truth will. Not to mention that it starts you down a path of all kinds of other complications like not being trusted.

It is my turn to get to work now. We are putting up the trim and baseboards in the downstairs space today. The electrician is supposedly coming to finish up too. ( I am not holding my breath on that...he is not all that dependable.)

Tan, I hope you had lots of fun in the city. Did you jump on the bed??

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Mich!

Marriage care--check! DH and I went to dinner, someplace different than we usually would go, had lots of conversation, went shopping for fun stuff (new music), held hands....it was really nice! I wouldn't have asked DH to go out last night if you hadn't cracked the whip, so thanks for the good job!

And no, we didn't talk about anything serious or life altering. I wanted a fun evening, and we were due. Although we did have fun on our anniversary outing, also. I think I've been doing okay in the marriage category, and I do recognize that our NOT having kids makes this easier. We have time together without a lot of distraction.

I soaked in the tub for awhile yesterday too, which I rarely take time for. So it was a few minutes of out-of-the-ordinary self care. But I'll raise the bar next weekend. I'm thinking a girl lunch. Meeting with the girlfriends, not eating them!

So I want to purge the negative energy that pops up. How do I get rid of it? I don't like harboring such things. It's dismaying when it keeps showing up.

And no, I haven't talked to DH about my urge to adopt rather than keep trying for a biological child. I had told him I would try at least one more time, since the RE had found the low hormone levels....it is something we can sorta correct, although my RE doesn't believe in correcting until after the pregnancy is confirmed, and I found all kinds of opinions online that the damage is already done if you wait until then.

Thus the clinic change. They seem to be very hormonally proactive, very in tune with the woman's natural hormonal cycle (at least that's how they come across on their website). I'm gonna try to call tomorrow.

I'm more comfortable with the concept of adoption than DH is. I worked in social work (can't believe I'm bringing that up again, I don't want to make anyone nervous!) and know that children are lovable, no matter their genetic make up. I wanted to bring lots of kids home, not to save them, but because I knew I could love them, and vice versa.

I am not completely without hope, as far as trying another pregnancy. Mostly without it, but not completely. And I am comfortable with the idea of adopting and having biological ones too, although it would lead to the life long goal of making sure all kids feel like they're loved the best! I'd feel that way in any case.

DH worries that he would love a biological child more than an adopted one. I appreciate his honesty, that's not a very pretty thing to admit. I think it is absolutely necessary to be honest about all of the issues surrounding adoption. There is too much at stake to not be open and honest and work through the issues.

Finally, the computer cooperated and I got to see 'fossil stone'! That's a quiet-yet-dramatic color, I love it! Hope all the loose ends of the reno are coming together!

I must, must, must get to work!








Keri (somewhat less lunatic-y!)


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## Tan II

Hi All









We had a great weekend ! we ate junk, laughed lots, did lots and had good bonding time together. It was really great to have the chance to be together and spend quality time together. It was good for us.

DH dealt with Jamie perfectly. There were no problems, not that I expected any. He is a really good, hands-on dad.

Time for marriage and selfcare ? Ha ha ha, and who d u think will clean the house and do the washing








Mish u r so right. Time for marriage and selfcare is so important, and is normally bottom of the list. I find on a weekend we make sure that we spend quality time together as a family. DH and I need to make time for us too.
I will get onto organising a dinner or something out. Got to organise a babysitter first.

Keri, I love disco music !! You go girl.









Have u phoned the clinic yet ? Nag, nag, nag.

Btw, I don't find it scary that u have worked in social work. I like the idea !

I think adoption is a wonderful second chance to being a parent. If u had to go that route, I'm sure your dh would love he child like his own. He would need to get his head around it first.

Tomorrow is a public holiday here. So it will be nice having another day off - not having to rush off to school and having dh home with us.
I'm not sure what we'll get up to. No plans made. I'm sure we'll do something fun.

Going to shower and get into bed with a magazine. That's selfcare time - yeah ?








Have a great day
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan--

I'm so glad you and Tayga had a fun time! That is really important, spending some one-on-one time bonding with him. He will remember it for the rest of his life, don't you think? The time he and Mom went off for a weekend of fun...









Okay, nag, nag, nag, I called the clinic! The wonderful woman I spoke to was verrry understanding, and optimistic. They will certainly look at 'preventative' hormonal supplementation, and we are going in for a private orientation session tonight! She completely understood that I don't really want to be 'oriented' around young couples who are trying to prevent pregnancy using the natural family planning. I feel really good about this, at this moment. May change momentarily.

Thanks for the nagging, btw. I needed someone to hold me accountable.

DH is really happy that I talk with you guys, he says he really sees a difference in how I handle 'things'. Mich, I did set him straight on where I stand with adoption, he now knows that I am ready to go down that road at any time. He set me straight with how much it bothers him to be around kids, including our godson. I did not know he was as tortured, if not more, than I have been.

All this soul-baring. Who knew we would have to do this? It really does help.

Tan, I posted on another thread about a 1st birthday, baby Jericho who passed the day he was born







: . I said something to his Mom I've kinda been wanting to suggest to you, but I didn't want to offend or hurt you. And it's actually a suggestion for all of us who have dealt with loss. That we could try to get to the point where the sad anniversaries are not so sad, that we make sure our babies' legacies are not to bring us that much pain. That we spend the birthdays/anniversaries doing something that a child would want their mama to do, walk in a park or listen to music or just turn our faces to the sun, something life-affirming.

Not that it's wrong to grieve, of course, or that it's wrong to cry about the losses. We have to do that. But that we not let that be the overriding lesson.

I'm not saying I'm there yet, or you or Mich should be there yet. Or that we'll even be able to get there. But it's something I want to aim for.

My m/c's were on the US Independence Day, which is a big picnic with friends and have fun holiday, over Thanksgiving weekend last year, and over Fathers Day weekend this year. I love holidays. Love them. Like to decorate and commemorate and celebrate and have parties and get together with family and friends. And I'm not going to change. I will always be sad, remembering what happened and what could have been. But I'm going to try to just go ahead and live. My tiny babies' legacies will not be to suck the joy from my life.

And I know that your loss is capitally larger than mine, so I have no business to talk to you about this. You may tell me to shut up at any time, I realize I am treading on some very personal, private, painful ground.

I now realize how mean it was for me to bring this up after your fun weekend.







: I'm not trying to be a downer, it was just on my mind. And I didn't want you to read the other thread, and wonder why I hadn't had the guts to bring the concept up with you guys.

Okay, back to work! I have taken the day off, my brother and DH are here, all working on the shelving in the basement. Hooray!

Talk you later, hope you enjoy your holiday Tan---what is the holiday, anyway?

Keri







:


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## Mammax4

It has been a busy couple of days. I was the supply run girl this weekend, grabbing trim etc. for the reno. Will was sick on Saturday uke. (poor baby, he's better now) Our electrician came on Saturday







... trying to get him to finish has been less than pleasant. He was supposed to come on Sunday and didn't show up, but today at 2:50pm he came and has finished up all the inside stuff. (yeah!) Remind me never to do this again!









I thought I had better get busy posting as we have been bumped way down the list. I don't know if that is good or bad...more of us talking or more of us joining.

Keri, I am so 'pumped' that you called the clinic and have an appointment tonight. I hope it went well. I am looking forward to your thoughts on the new clinic and anything else you would like to share. I am glad you shared your feelings on the adoption route. Hard to believe they (DH) can be struggling so much and hide it so well. (perhaps there is hope that mine wasn't just being an ass after all) I am sorry your DH is having such a hard time being around children, but I am glad he shared with you. (was it date night that gave the nudge for a 'good' talk or the nagging from your sisters from other misters?) What ever the motivation YEAH!!

Tan, if the babysitter is a problem, maybe you could have dinner later after the boys are in bed??

I suppose now that I have talked the talk, I better walk the walk. I am going to get upstairs and maybe snuggle with DH on the couch for a few minutes. He has been sick since Wednesday night last week.

Have a good night/day.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Tan, I want to babysit for you!







:

Mich, I hope your reno is all done before you lose your mind! It will all be over soon...or is it over now? Electrician, trim, paint...anything left?








for Will and your DH. I'm glad your little guy is better, and hope your DH is well soon.

I told my DH lastnight that I thought he and your husbands needed to get together to talk. He talked about babies/pregnancy/doctors/hormones all day yesterday. Wow, did he need to let loose! It is because I opened the door, and told him about the Phone Call. Lately that's all it takes, just a little conversational opening and he is off and running. Poor guy.

He was so excited and hopeful after the appointment lastnight, I think he talked for about 45 minutes without taking a breath.

The appointment was good. This is an all natural approach, involving very close monitoring of a woman's cycle, through a very clinical observation of cervical mucus (oh the fun) and specifically timed hormone tests, to see if my cycle is timed right. If it's not, they correct things hormonally. Apparently the cycle being off can mean the fertilized egg doesn't get implanted soon enough, or the uterine lining may not be adequately developed, setting a person up for m/c.

I like the all natural approach, as you have probably detected. They want me to go at least one full cycle, keeping a chart full of data, and have some more specific hormone testing done, before we try to get pregnant again.

The founder of this program is in Omaha, an hour from me. It is used worldwide, so I take that as some validation of its efficacy....but I'm going to make an appointment with the founding doctor. The woman we met with lastnight, who is a trainer in the natural monitoring stuff, said this doctor loves challenges, and would have some possible insight into my autoimmune issues and their effect on our pregnancies.

I am hopeful, cautiously of course. She was very specific to our particular situation, as opposed to our RE ("just keep plugging away"). She just shook her head and looked down when we told her about our 3 m/c's, and said this doctor believes one miscarriage is too many. How's that for saying what women want to hear?

More than anything, I am relieved. Someone takes us seriously, and has a plan! I should have called sooner. Ah, hindsight!

Thanks for asking about this, and I apologize for rambling on again!

Oh, shelves are up in the basement, the transformation is under way!

Gotta run, very late as usual. Thanks for being here for me, let me know how I can return the favor!

Keri


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## Mammax4

Keri I can feel the positive coming from you. Finally someone that wants to proactively prepare your body for pregnancy rather than reacting to the imbalance (?) while you are already pregnant. YEAH!!! It is amazing how much it helps to be heard and not just listened to. How long until you can see the woman in Omaha? I wouldn't beat your self up about not calling the clinic sooner...there was a reason you needed to wait until now. Perhaps (selfish moment) you were needed for the raging connection (even if I barged in on you and Tan...try to get rid of me now







) before you took that next step. Perhaps you needed to purge yourself of all that you were holding in. Physical, mental, hormonal and spritual readiness can't hurt!

My DH is kind of freaking me out a bit. I know it is my past that causes this, so I try not to outwardly show how kooky I can be. He has stomach problems, seen many dr's and never diagnosed. His symptoms have changed in the past year, he has actually used all of his sick days because of this trouble. (a bad year would have been 3 sick days) DH's 'Uncle' went into the hospital for some tests, because he was having some stomach trouble, when they went in to see him in the morning, they found him dead on the floor. Apparently 'Uncle' had stomach cancer, he had none of the typical wasting or other indications of longer term illness.

DH has been expressing a lot of worry lately about how we are not as involved in what the kids are doing. He is anxious about stuff that he doesn't usually find to be a problem. During one of our talks recently (in the past two weeks) he teared up about the potential for our kids to get off track. So, here I sit with a DH being emotional and almost paranoid about our kids, wanting to be involved with our kids more than he ever has, add stomach pains that make him lay in bed so he can cope. DH now makes sure that he is doing stuff with the kids every night, before he was more of a put it off guy that wasn't too worried if it didn't happen at all. I can't help but think of Final Gifts and maybe he is connecting before dying. That is the crazy paranoid side of me... the normal side thinks it is great that he is stepping up more and doing stuff with the kids. (it Is a really great way to not do reno work too)

Tan, I hope you are doing okay. I am thinking about you, and it's all good thoughts!







...sorry a lame attempt to lighten your spirit, even if it is with only a half hearted smile.

On my walk this morning, my neighbor was asking me about the miscarriage. I didn't find the questions bothered me as much as my defensiveness of the loss. There is a real edge to my feelings about the m/c... Like I expect the person is thinking I wasn't far enough to be sad. This is without any indication of any thing like that from the person asking the question. It is like I feel I need to justify my feelings about this. I don't know why that is. I was proofing my post when I noticed how I disconnected myself to a third party reference when referring to the (there it is again) My miscarriage...I will have to work on that.

The reno- we still have trim to put in one bedroom, the hallway and livingroom. Paint touch ups need to be done in the bedrooms, the hallway needs another coat of paint as does the livingroom. When that is done, the new space will be finished. Then, we can paint the kitchen that was fixed up and needs to be totally painted now and the dining room needs to be painted too. Looks like I have my work cut out for me doesn't it. The electrician still needs to install 3 flood lights outside and put the proper bulbs and trim on the pot lights outside too. I think we will be good and finished after that. This doesn't include the mess we have made of our backyard, we will have to deal with that too.

This will not be finished by Will's b-day.







I am hopefull that it will be done before the open house and I for sure want it done before Christmas. I think it will be me doing the painting by myself, so it will be my own fault if it isn't all done. I will try to squeeze in some 'me' time and some DH time while baking for Christmas and getting the painting done. (me and my bright ideas...) Hey, one of the things I like to do is bake, if I make time to do some of that does that count as 'me' time? How about if I have a cocktail and listen to disco?

Do either of you have a good ginger snap cookie recipe?

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi !!!

How am I so behind on posts ? Where to start ?

First of all I want to say ....







well done Keri for making an appointment and going to the clinic.
Second thing I want to say is ...







what great news!
I am so happy to hear the clinic has such a good approach, and that they see there is a chance for you.
I'm sure you and dh are thrilled, and so scared too. Keep us updated. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.

I'm glad that u and dh had a long talk and that he opened up and got things out in the open. Isn't it funny how we think that our dear men are fine. Or think that things don't bother them. Meanwhile....
A silly story. Dh's b-day and our wedding anniversary are a day apart. So normally we celebrate our anniversary, instead of doing something special for his bday. This year, I thought it would be nice to do something for him. So I organised a babysitter, bokked a yum place for dinner and kept it all a surprise !! I didn't realise how much something small like that meant so much to him. He was so touched. He told me that no-one had ever done anything like that for him.







Poor guy ! I felt so bad for him !! Now I want to surprise him all the time ! The point that I wanted to make, is that we take our big strong men for granted sometimes, and forget that they have feeling s too.

Mish, I hope Will is better, and dh too. It's so horrible when the kids are sick. Even worse when dh is !! I think they are worse than the kids sometimes !!

Keri, thanks for the offer to babysit. When did u say you'd be here !! Ha ha !

Mish, I understand your dh's fear. I feel like that too sometimes. Is there anything he should be worried about ? Why doesn't he go for a check-up. Hopefully there is nothing wrong, and he can put his mind to rest.

Mish, I am ok. I find it's a strange time. On the one hand I feel really sad knowing we're having another anniversary, and thinking about where we were this time 3 years ago. On the other hand I feel like I don't need a specific time to think about it all, and feel sad. Just becasue it's "this time" doesn't mean I must feel sad now. Like, after the anniversary I'll be happy again. Make sense ? I feel sad regardless.
It's just funny thinking that Gabriel would have been 3. So hard to picture what he'd have been like. In some ways I find the anniversary date for my mom harder. We had 30 years together. I really miss her.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I don't miss Gabriel or think of him less, it's just different.

The reno sounds like it's moving along ! I'm sure all the hassle and dust will be worth it in the end.

I woke up with a headache today. Took Tayga to school and went to sleep when Jamie did ! I feel a bit better now. I'm not sure if it's a sinus headache, migraine or hormonal. I recently had an IUD fitted, so now I'm wondering if it's that. Maybe it's just a headache !

Got to get ready, it's Jamie's "baby class" soon.

Btw, I don't have a ginger snap recipe. I still have to give u the marble cake recipe ! I will, promise.

I better get moving. Seeing I am the world's GREATEST procrastinator !!

Keri, one more time







: YAY !!!

Chat later
Tan


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## Mammax4

I am so tired!!! I went to bed at 1am and got up at 5:30am for my walk.

Tan, I think I can understand the 'strange time'. It is true, the actual date of the event doesn't increase the awareness of loss. For me there was an almost subconscious fog that would come over me. Not to mention a fear of the date coming up and hoping that it wouldn't make it worse. I wouldn't find that I was sadder about my mom not being there, but I would think about how my life was different and what she had not been part of. I suppose it made me more introspective. Maybe I 'let' myself be more outwardly demonstrative of my feelings on the anniversary. It really is a strange time. Yours would also be a different experience than mine as I was 9 and had a child's perspective. You had 30 years and were an adult with a DH, child at home and a baby in the hospital. It would stir many areas of your life as so much was going on at the same time.

I can tell you, 26 years later... it does get easier. It does take time. I wish I would have had more time to ask questions, but who says I would have asked them.

DH is up and moving better tonight. He and my BIL had a 'work' night, they finished the baseboards in the boys rooms. DH does have lots to worry about. Both his parents died from cancer or treatments from cancer. His Aunt has had cancer, I think another Aunt died from cancer... His parents both died when they were 71. (6 years apart)

I know I put more in my head than needs to be there, that is who I am. That's what/where I came from...(good, bad or otherwise







)

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Good morning/evening!

Tan, that was so nice of you to make time for your DH's b-day....my Dad's 50th H.S. reunion was this spring, and he brought out a box of memorabilia to look for old school pictures. He had his baby book in there! I didn't know he even had one. Year after year, it would list what he got for Christmas gifts, and 4 days later for his birthday it would say 'no gifts, too close to Christmas.' He was little, they were poor. My DH's b-day is the day after my Dad's, and his parents used to do that too. It's just sad, everyone should have a day where they get some attention! So good for you!









Mich, when is the last time your DH visited his doctor? You are not kooky, I would be concerned too, particularly that symptoms have changed. Something is obviously going on in his head too....it's great that he wants to spend more time with the kids, but where did that come from?







Doctor doctor doctor. I will nag as needed. Please keep us posted.

'Never been diagnosed' makes me soooo mad!







My Mom has another appointment with her worthless neurologist today. Why me and her and your DH too? I know the human body is complicated, but I'm starting to feel like doctors are big whiney quitters! Mom and I are both gonna go to a holistic doctor, the coach woman gave me his card. Actual gp, but certified to do acupuncture, prescribes herbs...why not?

Speaking of doctors, I made an appointment with the Big Guy. No, not God, the founder of the natural fertility care program. (Yeah, it's a guy who has mapped out the woman's cycle so precisely, doesn't seem logical, does it?) February 6. I'll be working with a different doctor and the 'coach/counselor' until then. Now I need to start getting medical records switched around.

I hereby declare that if you are doing something you enjoy, while drinking something you enjoy and listening to disco, it is 'me' time! (Tan, thanks for the dancing banana the other day, those kill me!)

Ginger snaps are not something I have ever made. Oddly, I love ginger in Asian food, but not so much in baked goods. Go figure.

Okay fast points:

*Mich, I am so glad you busted in on us!








*Also glad that you are down to painting and trim. Hmmm someday we may finish ours!
*Tan, with your Mom vs. Gabriel (I know, it's not a competition) your Mom is someone who would give you support and would take care of you, where Gabriel is someone you would have taken care of. It makes sense that their losses hit you differently.
*Mich, I hadn't noticed the lack of connection in you using 'the' instead of 'my' when talking about your m/c. Very astute observation. Keep it up.
*Tan, hope your headache went away. Mine did (stupid allergies).
*Mich, get some sleep!

Thanks to both of you for all your support. I appreciate it more than you know.

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi !!

I'M SO ANGRY.







(sorry about the shouting). Listen to what happened yesterday.

Tayga's class was going on a school excursion today. So yesterday after school, his teacher calls me into the classroom to "chat". Nothing unusual. I've told u he gives her a hard time.
So anyway, she tells me that unless DH or myself (without Jamie) come with, Tayga can't go with on the excursion. His behavious has been bad, and he has been warned that if didn't have good behaviour in the classroom, he wouldn't be able to go. Unless I go with to supervise him, or dh. And if I go, it can't be with Jamie becasue it'll be too hectic.
Well firstly, I don't have anyone to leave Jamie with, and I wouldn't want to. Secondly, DH can't take off a day's work for a school excursion (besides he had a conference on).

So, poor Tayga didn't go on the excursion. I have no problem with his teacher needing to have a firm hand with him. I just feel that to not let him go, is mean. He was the only child in his grade that didn't go.

The teacher then goes on to say that I must bring him to school today. He can stay with the preps or the grade 3's. She'll leave work for him to do. I said "no, he'll stay at home."

He was so upset about it. Although he put on a brave face. I felt so bad for him.

DH was not impressed when he found out. He called the principal today and told her how he felt. We are having a meeting with her and Tayga's teacher tomorrow.

Grrrrrrr. I didn't do any posting last night because I was too angry.

While the teacher was talking, I wanted to say so much, and stand up for him. I was so full of emotion, I felt like if I opened my mouth to talk, I would have cried.
I did tell her that I thought it was unfair, and that he's not the only child in the class that doesn't listen. Which is true.

It will be interesting to see what they say at the meeting. I'll let u know.

Btw Mish, i'm also glad u joined us. It's nice to have you and Keri to chat to









Keri, well done for making your app. Feb 6 - the countdown begins ..... What's the plan now ? How are you feeling about it all ?

Just seen the time, the new series of Amazing Race is about to begin !! Got to run !! I'm not a reality tv junkie or anything !! Actually, I'm not, I just have my favourites.

Have a good day/night !
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Morning/Evening All!

Tan, I thought I'd give you a hand with Tayga's teacher









You were justifiably angry. Hasn't Tayga been doing better at school? And if not, that seems very publicly punitive, particularly for a 7 year old. And isn't he still a shade young developmentally for long term punishment? "Be good today, or I'll take away something down the road...."

What's with telling you the _night before_? That didn't give you any time to try to make arrangements, or help encourage better behavior. What's more, what did the dingbat teacher think THIS would do for Tayga's behavior? If he feels ostracized and humiliated, not to mention disliked by his teacher, I'm sure he's gonna run right back to school all happy and well behaved.







:

I hope the meeting is productive, and she can explain herself somewhat. It sounds like it wasn't thought through very well at all. I mean, theoretically you have to back the teacher so Tayga will understand that she has authority and needs to be respected, but how do you support the teacher when she throws a nuclear bomb in the middle of behavior management???

Sorry, Tan. You can shout here anytime, you know? Please let us know how the meeting goes. Good for your DH, setting up a meeting!

What's the plan now? I have started monitoring and charting, umm, mucus. And I will be seeing another doctor in the meanwhile, who will be ordering blood tests to check hormone levels every 48 hours, from the point of ovulation until my period starts. They are looking for any off levels that could interfere with a pregnancy. Why aren't all doctors this thorough? I feel like we are starting with square one.

So they will look at everything the RE did, along with the more detailed information on my hormone levels. They will correct accordingly...we may try to get pregnant again before the Feb. appt, if things look good, and still consult with Dr. Big Guy.

Have I mentioned this is a non-profit medical center? I sometimes wondered if my RE didn't really care if we had a live birth, as long as we kept coming in for tons of expensive blood tests and ultrasounds. It's horrible to think that about someone who is supposed to be helping.

I am cautiously optimistic, thanks for asking. Still scared to death of getting pregnant again, as that really hasn't turned out well for us in the past. If they find something concrete, and do something concrete, I will feel better about it.

In any case, if this works out, hooray! If it doesn't, we move on to adoption, hooray! We are moving forward!

Mich, I picture you painting. How is your DH doing? Any plans for doctor or less traditional route, since the doctors don't really know what's going on?

And really, how are both of you doing? We talk a lot about other stuff, but still have issues to deal with.

Tan, we have watched the Amazing Race, but they keep moving it around on the schedule, so we didn't always find it this last season. Grey's Anatomy is on tonight (yes, we watch a bit too much tv, but are doing better). You never told me what your issues are with the show. Dish! I would complain about the previews for this episode, but don't know what the schedule is for you....

Off to join the world!

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi!

Well, I'm a little calmer now. We were meant to meet with the principal and teacher this morning, but the principal had to cancel. Something came up.








So we are meeting on monday. I almost feel like saying "just leave it". Part of me knows that they did it to "cover their ass". Should he have gone off and done his own thing or whatever. Part of me still thinks it's unfair.
Surely his teacher knows how to deal with difficult kids. She has been teaching for 30 years. Maybe that's the problem.

I won't be one of those parents who thinks their child is perfect and can do no wrong. I also won't stand by and allow his teacher to be mean and unfair.

He knows what to do to annoy her, or me for that matter, and he does it.

I have just finished on the phone to a child psychologist. DH & I are going next friday to talk to her to discuss strategies and to see if their might be issues.
I don't think their are. Considering what we have been through, I'd like to be 100% certain. I would hate to say years from now "I should have".

As a parent I want to help my child, if there are any issues. And I want to stop the power struggles.

I'm not going to have all this happening at a new school. I'm happy to change and give him more control (he told me we treat him like a baby. I don't think so, but maybe we do). He has to change to and stop being so defiant and challenging.

*Pop* .. there's another grey hair !!!

Keri, I think u have a fantastic attitute regarding pregnancy / adoption. I think it is always easy to be the "victim". Well done for deciding not to be.
My fingers are crossed. Sending you lots of good thoughts.
One thing that I believe, and I almost kept on chating on the way to the hospital when we got "the call" to come to Gabriel is ..." whatever happens will be the right decision for you. You may not think it's the right thing at the time. It happens for a reason, and you can only have faith that it's for the right reason".
My SIL had gone to a shiur (religous talk where life and religion are discussed)a few weeks before Gabriel had died, and that was the topic. Talking about the right decision. How we ask G-d for things, and sometimes don't get them. And how sometimes getting them might not be the right decision. Like me saying "please let Gabriel live. But it would not have been the right decision for him. He was too sick. By him dying, it was the right decision for him.
Am I making sense here ? I seemed to have gone off the topic. I hope this gives you some peace. I know it gave me peace. Even on the way to the hospital. Knowing it was the right thing for Gabriel. Not for me, but for him it was.

So to get back on track..... I wish you luck in your new journey.

BTW, I'm not religious, more spiritual. Although I am observant to a point.

Tomorrow is 3 years that my mom died. 3 years. Wow, where has the time gone ? I have to admit that I feel ok with it. Time definately has a way of healing. I feel sad, but not as sad as last year.
My sister and I were talking the other night. We were saying that we're sure my mom is happier. She's not sick and suffering. I suppoe looking at it that way, I can make peace with that. I still miss her.

Amazing Race last night was great. It has just started. It's the one where the groups are families. So there are kids in it too. Is that the one u r watching too ?

We have just finished watching series 2 of Grey's Anatomy. Where are u up to ? I don't want to give anything away. I'm sure you are the same as us. Even ahead, def not behind. I LOVE the show ! I don't have any issuse with it. Except some weeks touch a nerve when it has to do with someone dying or with babies. I find it "comes too close to home", and brings out emotions. Can make me a bit down. I suppose it forces me to face things I don't want to, or re-live situations.

Do u watch the O.C. ? The new series started on tuesday night night. I used to love that show, but went off it before it ended. Not sure if I'll start watching the new series.

Better go and tidy the kitchen and unpack the dishwasher. Yay !!!

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hello, friends!

Tan, it is good to hear that you are doing okay. And I think the loss of a loved one is _supposed_ to be easier after some time has passed, otherwise we would eventually become crippled by the cumulative losses life so kindly provides...

It's good that you and your sister talk about your Mom. Nobody else can quite understand the way she does, I'll bet.

I completely agree with your perspective on needing to understand there may be a higher calling, a plan we cannot understand. If you believe in a higher power, you must give them some credit for knowing more than us. What we want is not always what is best. It's astounding that you had the presence of faith to think of this when they called you to the hospital to be with Gabriel. Maybe it wasn't an accident that's what was in your head....

My prayers are just for our path to become clear and for us to have the strength to follow it. I am not more specific, because I defer to higher power. I do hope that our path involves kids, and I guess I'm steering us in that direction!

I read the Bible on a semi-regular basis, but am a very irregular church attender. My faith guides me, though, no matter where I sit on Sunday.

Thanks for complementing my positive attitude toward preg/adoption. It's not always positive, I am a work in progress! I've also had 16 months of gradually dawning reality, so I've tried to work it out along the way.

Part of what drew me to seek support online was the realization that I was becoming someone I didn't want to be, bitter and jealous and resentful and emotionally fragile. I REALLY, REALLY don't want to be that person. Your comment makes me feel as though I am winning the interpersonal battle!

I have acquired a noticeable amount of gray hair, I'm not sure if it's due to all the wannababy stress or just the passage of time. Most of it is in a patch, a 'skunk stripe' like my Grandma had, and my aunt has. I am not yet sufficiently inspired to want to cover it....

I'd still go to the meeting with Tayga's principal if I were you. My 2 questions would be 1)whether the long term goal of behaving to go on the field trip is developmentally appropriate for a 7 year old and 2)if it wasn't a long term goal, if this was an emotional, last minute decision that may have been not thought through. And I would express a desire for earlier notification of such a decision than the NIGHT BEFORE.

You are very proactive, in consulting with a child psychologist. I hope he gives you some good information! Keep us posted, if you would.

Ah, Grey's Anatomy. They did a short run when it first started, so I'm not sure if this is considered season 2 or 3. Lastnight a bunch of the surgeons went camping...that shouldn't reveal too much to you! Yes, another lost pregnancy storyline. And another OBVIOUS clue as to an upcoming storyline. I like the show, but it also drives me a bit batty! Dr. Bailey is my fave character. And why do so many men find Meredith to be worth pursuit? They should make her more likeable. Or give her a different hairdo.

That Amazing Race series ran here last year---the kids are awesome! Pay close attention to the family with the littlest kids, the girl is sooo smart!

I've never watched the OC. I'm really looking forward to American Idol, it starts in January. The bandwagon passed my by for the first few seasons, now I'm sorry I missed it!

I'll be thinking of you even more these next few weeks...

Mich, are you still painting? Or did you collapse from not enough sleep? Hope your DH is okay, I'm a bit concerned...

On a less serious topic, did you find a good ginger snap recipe? I'll search my cookbooks if you'd like.

Take care, dear people!

Keri


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## Mammax4

Hello!

I am O.K.!







DH is okay. He is much better, although still not 100%. He apparently discussed his concern with the DR last visit and was told it wasn't cancer, but something else as yet to be determined. How they determined it wasn't cancer, I have no idea. No testing was done, we are new to this DR so he doesn't have any history. If his finding was a result of my DH not wasting away, the uncle is an example of a robust person with terminal stomach cancer. He was a bit paunchy until the day he passed.
It will be what it will be. If we are meant to know, we will.

I have been busy and when I was having time to post, there was too much activity by the computer. I like to have the space to myself so I don't feel the need to censor incase someone is reading. This is going to be a busy weekend...we are so close to finishing. We should be able to finish and shuffle furniture around and start CLEaning!!!! (yeah!)

In all of our busy-ness, DH and I have not really had a chance for date night. We did go (alone) to check out some furniture and had some great conversation...that is as much as we can hope for at the moment. We did make the decision to leave the kids at home so that we could be alone.

Tan, I must say Tayga's teacher, and her decision for exclusion, has stirred up my own ire.







: We have had some not very nice teachers in our role as parents. It is a difficult position to be in and remain calm, especially when you see the effect it has on your child. Our first experience was when Dan was in Gr. 1. Honestly, he still has left over crap from her. She too was a long time teacher and it became clear that she did NOT like boys.

My advise to you would be write it down. If you meet with the principal and teacher, they don't have to document it. If you write a letter, it is supposed to go in her file. (here anyway) It will provide a trail of behaviours for subsequent families and their situations. It saddens me that there are teachers like that still working...do they not know the position they hold? What an amazing opportunity to have such a large impact on so many individuals lives. You'll have to wait to smack her until later, others know you will be at school







...I am sending a mental smack to her--and it is good and hard!

Keri, I am so excited for you. Through your womb or your heart a child will come to you. I am so glad that this clinic is so proactive. Shame on the RE for le$$ effort on her part. I hope that my enthusiasm does not come off as inappropriate, I am seeing the 'big' picture and the end result brings a smile to my face. I would be honored to be as much a part of your journey as you feel inclined to share. I am keeping positive thoughts for you and your DH.

How am I really?.... I am in a good head space, it seems that way at least...I am finding I tear up at stuff alot lately. Not sure why. Perhaps a change in where I should be to where I am. Acceptance?? I was surprised to realize that I didn't know how far along I would be...it seemed to me (in the beginning) like that would be the never ending torture. There are a few things coming up that I am not looking forward too. They were times that I had been excited about when pregnant.

I had a chat with my step-mom, she has a strange sense of who I am. She has never shared this with me, but she thinks I am a wounded little girl that just puts up a brave face. (not her words, but the gist of her comment) Funny how you can be involved in someones life and have no clue about who they are. Tells you how much she hears me and what she puts in her head of what she expects I should be. It was an enlightening conversation on many levels. I think perhaps her tongue was loosened by spirits of the liquor variety.

I should go, I need to motivate the kids to get all cleaned up. We have family pictures tonight. Does the running flat out ever end? I don't think I have stayed home one night this week.

Tan, I am sending you a hug.

Have a good day.

Micheline














:


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## lolalapcat

Hooray, Mich is back!

I'm so glad your DH is better, and it's not as scary as I thought.

Now feed him some yogurt, if he hasn't been eating any. It's my best solution for all digestive issues. Well, that and fiber, but that's for farther down the digestive tract! Until he finds out what is actually going on, he can help maintain a balance of good vs. bad bacteria. And it's something easy to try.

I read today that more and more doctors are using Google to help diagnose their difficult cases. Hope the rest get on the bandwagon!

Mich, your heart is still bruised, that's why you get teary a lot. I get teary a lot too. And my head is in a pretty good place too.

Sometimes bruised hearts don't ever quite recover. I'm still a teary person from 2001, the year of funerals. My whole body was full of tears then, they just kept overflowing. It got better, but I never got my steely heart back. It got worse when I started having the m/c's, of course. It's not as bad now, with several months distance, but I fully expect to remain a weepy person for a long time. Maybe the rest of my life. Never saw it coming.

My Dad has become a cryer too. Poor guy. He cried over my last m/c, when even my Mom really didn't. But it all started in 2001 for him too. There just comes a time when you don't bounce back all the way. It's okay, it's the foundation of true empathy and gratitude.

Wow, have to stop talking about that.

It's really interesting how your step mom sees you. How old were you when she became your step mom? I'd say you aren't a wounded little girl, but we are wounded women....but in my mind that's relatively new for you. I think you have dealt with the loss of your Mom in a very balanced, healthy way. I wish I was as grown up as you are.








Ah, but there was liquor at work. That's not exactly truth serum! I'm going to have a bit of cheap wine myself, during daylight hours, no less! Yes, that's right, self care, going on tomorrow! Friends, food, a bit of light and fruity drinking...no deep interpersonal discussion, but I haven't seen friends in over a month.







:

Oh, and I understand about the computer. DH was hovering and TALKING this morning when I was trying to type. Sheesh, it was MORNING! I hadn't even had a full cup of coffee yet! So I don't really appreciate an audience either. I'll share with you and Tan (and the rest of the cyber world--hello, invisipeeps!) first, and get around to sharing with him when I am darn good and ready.

Mich, thank you for your excitement for our plans in progress! It doesn't come across as inappropriate at all. I was telling my Mom about the new mucosal hyperanalysis, and she said she'd like me to have 3 kids. Now THAT was kinda inappropriate, talk about pressure! One thing at a time.

I'm excited too, in a very reserved way.

So I have to ask. Does it bother you, me talking about pregancy plans, when you would like another baby but your DH is vetoing? It's interesting, how all three of us have so very much in common, but are in very different places, all at the same time. I can't imagine not sharing the journey with you two, if we can sustain a pregancy I'll be scared through the whole thing, and if I can't... well, you know...

Dang. I'm needy.

Okay, I'll stop with the rambling. I have to get some sleep, so I can get up early tomorrow to clean and do laundry before going to play! Oh yeah, there's the alphabet soup I have to make, too!








Thanks for being such good friends!

Keri

ps, Family pictures, very cool!


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## Mammax4

I can honestly say it doesn't bother me one speck that you are sharing pregnancy plans. Really. I would love for you to have that success. I will laugh with you, I will try to calm you (if/when needed) I will share my knowledge (only - (well...maybe not only) when asked) I will share your joy.

DH does eat yogurt every day, for exactly that reason. He doesn't enjoy it much, but knows it is good for him. He is feeling better, but still not 'normal'.

My Dad gave me a hard time about being pregnant with Will. When I told them I was pregnant this time, I sent an email with the subject "no groaning allowed". He teased me a bit, we have that kind of relationship. When I told them about the miscarriage, my step mom expressed sympathy, but my Dad was really sad for me. He called me from work offshore. That he called was huge, the tone of his voice was even more so.

Good for you for getting together with friends. I am having an open house in a few weeks, wanna come? How 'bout you Tan?

Our pictures went well. We all smiled our very best, Will was hilarious. Scrunched up nose and squinty eyes...what a silly goose! My BIL came with us, we had asked him to. We had some pictures taken with all of us as well. It seemed wrong not to have him in some of the pictures too, he is here and he is family. He is such a nice man and his soon to be x is not nice at all. Either of you know a single woman that would like to date a mid 50's nice guy?

I better go, everyone is now in bed--except DH. There is a fire going, coffee is on (yep, I drink it right up to the minute I hop in to bed) I am going to spend some time with him. That is our 'date' capabilities at the moment.

Talk to you tomorrow.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi All









Thank you for having me in your thoughts today. The wasn't too bad. Although it started off with a really heavy feeling.
I had a dream just before I woke up. A really strange dream. I dreamt that my mom was on holiday visiting us. Then she had gone shopping - to buy Jamie a music cd. The next part of the dream I was crying because she was on the aeroplane going back home and hadn't come to say goodbye to me. I was crying saying "I didn't say goodbye to her". I was very distressed in the dream. I think I was even crying in my sleep. I woke up (Jamie woke me up) feeling very distressed and had a real heaviness around my heart for a few hours afterwards. It took me a while to shake it off.

Then we went for breakfast together. We were all up and ready to go at a decent time, so we thought why not. Normally we laze around in the morning ! After b/fast I saw a lolly (candy) that my mom used to love eating. DH got one for me, and before I ate it I said to him "for my mom". I felt really sad.

Ther est of the day was good. We came home, Jamie went to sleep. We did stuff around the house.
Then in the afternoon we met friends at the beach. The kids had fun. It was nice and relaxing.

Now we have had dinner, and will spend a quiet saturday night at home. DH & I will watch tv together.

I would have posted this morning, but Tayga and DH were lurking. I hate it when they are. This is my space, and they aren't invited !

It sounds like u r ahead of us in Grey's Anatomy. I don't recall that episode. We have just ended off with Danny, and the night of the prom.

Funny, I also read an article about doctors referring to Google !

Btw Keri, u r not needy. Just human . And if u r needy right now, so what ! I'll be a need giver









Mish, I'd love to come to your open house. What can I make ?








That's so much fun. How many people are u expecting ?

Hope u have a great weekend. Going to shower and jump into bed with my Cosmopolitan and / watch tv with DH / watch tv with dh and read Cosmo !

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan--









I rewrote your dream, actually pictured it....your Mom came home from shopping, you made tea while your Mom put the cd on for Jamie...you sat and chatted, with the music and kids in the background....then she got her suitcases and you took her to the airport. You walked her to the gate, held her hands as she waited for the flight, you hugged and said your goodbyes. You watched as the plane taxied out and took off.

Sometimes that works for me, just changing the dream. Actually closing my eyes and picturing it. Fill in the missing parts.

Despite the heavy start, it sounds like a day well spent, remembering your Mom and enjoying your life.

And I do most of my posting in the mornings, when DH usually isn't around. I get kinda irritated when his schedule is different, and he is around in the mornings...poor guy. But he should just leave me alone when I'm here! Just back away from the computer....do you want me to stay sane or don't you?!

Mich, I want to come to your open house too! Hey, both of you should bring your families to our Thanksgiving dinner... Darn transcontinental issues!

I actually do know a couple of nice women that may be interested in your BIL...darn transcontinental issues!

It was nice of you to include him in your family photos. You are just good people! I want a photo(said in whiney voice). Can we exchange photos? I will not become a transcontinental stalker, I promise!

About your Dad....it's amazing how fast people become invested in a new baby. Even though he is a curmudgeon about the number of kids (please, Canada has lots of empty space to fill!) it is touching to know he was concerned about you, and the loss of your baby.

My parents have been really good about not putting pressure on us to have kids. I really debated---I knew our m/c risk was high. It was a choice to go through this, which somehow makes me feel less qualified to be on this board. But now that we are trying, my parents don't have to hide how much they yearn to be grandparents. I had no idea.

People are such interesting creatures.

Right now I am having a battle of wills with a cat whose brain is the size of a kiwi, at best. He's hurting my heart. Stubborn animal must take medicine! But he won't and now he's staring at me from across the room. It is so complicated, when it shouldn't be. I am, perhaps, unqualified to be responsible for a human.

Mich, I am a knowledge seeker. Bring it on!

Tan, we're maybe 6 episodes ahead of you on Grey's. I like the show but it DRIVES ME NUTS. Kind of like real life people, maybe that's why I still feel compelled to watch it. I like the characters (except Meredith) and want them to stop making such bad decisions. But then they would be perfect people, and I wouldn't be able to relate. See, I am still trying to figure out why I watch it!

Okay, really gotta go be domestic.

Have a good Saturday/Sat. night!

Keri







:


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

Thank you for re-doing the dream for me. It was just as hard. I felt such a loss, picturing saying goodbye, and her leaving. In a way though, I suppose it did help to "say goodbye".
I just wanted one more hug.









You think as an adult, when your parent dies, you'll be ok. You're grown-up for god's sake. It hurts so much. I feel such a loss. I'm no-one's daughter now. I'll never get "To my daughter" b-day cards or have to look for "To my Mother" cards.
A whole part of my life, a piece of who I am, is over.

We'd love to come for Thanksgiving dinner. I'll make something for you too !

Today was a nice day. We relaxed at home. After lunch DH and Tayga jumped on their bikes. I put Jamie in the pram and walked. We all went for a ride/walk to a nearby cafe. We had somethng to drink and a snack. Then made our way home again. It was fun.

Hope you had a great weekend too. I'm so tired. I'm going to shower and get into bed and watch tv.
Tan :yawning:


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## lolalapcat

Tan--

Last year at Thanksgiving my aunt said she is still struggling with the loss of her Mom, that it's something you never get over. My Grandma passed away in 1989. We've never talked about that sort of thing before, I didn't know my aunt felt that way. I think it's how we all feel about her.

I miss her more now, which I didn't ever think would happen. She would really enjoy the person I have become, and she would really like my husband! My Grandpa would too. He passed away when I was 9.

It's okay that you miss your Mom so much, it is a testament to your relationship with her. You do still have parents, you will always be their daughter.

I know it's not from your Mom, but for what it's worth


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## Mammax4

Good Morning

I thought I better post now before everyone gets down here. We will be moving bedrooms around today. Ya-hoo! The trim needs one more coat and the walls need a little spot touch up from the carpet scuffs. The boys should be in the move mode this afternoon. I re coated the livingroom lastnight. 2x cutting 1x rolling. It looks great. I think I may just do one more time. It doesn't look like it needs it, but it would be that much richer a colour if I did.

Tan, I am sorry you had such a sad dream. Heavy question here... Do you have guilt feelings about not being there when your Mom passed? Perhaps you could physically do something as a good bye to her. A favorite thing she liked to do, something you did together...that kind of a thing. If I am pushing the envelope here, please feel free to let me know and ignore the above. I know that we don't replace your Mom, but I bet Keri and I could give a pretty good hug. I am sending you one right now, telepathically.

I am glad you had your family to spend the day with. What a nice way to start your day and then the beach too!

Keri, kitties are way harder to give medicine to than children. I need to be nosey here... Were you high risk for miscarriage from the start? If yes, can you share why? Why would level of risk reduce your right to be here? (you can't slip those little comments past you know..) 2001??

It is funny, a gf of mine said it was nice of us to include BIL in our photos too. I didn't really think of it like that, it would have been weird not to have in some of our photos. He is here and part of our 'in house' family right now. It would have been sad to exclude him. I know he appreciated being asked to come. He called on his way home from work. He was leaving a little later than he expected to and wanted to let me know he would be home soon. I could totally hear "don't leave without me'. I know we made the right decision.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could go to each others places! I keep thinking that. I am torn between how would it change us here to know each other IRL and seeing you both and giving/getting a big hug. (not that it really matters, we all live a long way apart and won't probably meet IRL







) I think it would be cool to exchange photos, you might be surprised to see what I look like... I am really a man pretending to be a woman!














: Just kidding. Do you think if we know what each other looks like that some walls would go up? We would be removing a degree of anonimity. I have thought it would be nice to exchange some kind of thing that connects us IRL. I know, silly elementary school thoughts-- I can't help it. I was thinking of bracelets or anklets...something like that. Am I totally goofy or what!!

Anyway, people are starting to invade my space down here. I wonder what it will be like when the computer gets moved upstairs...It seemed like a good idea at the time. Now I am not so sure.

Have a great day. I will try and check in later.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Mich--

You're killing me! So productive, and I can't even step away from the computer today. Soon, I'll get moving soon. Let us know how the finished product looks!

We may meet in person someday, I'm not afraid to travel! You just never know how life is going to play out. I'm sorry that the timing was such that I was in Seattle in July, and that's so much closer to you than where I now sit!

I don't feel compelled to remain anonymous to either of you at this point, but I completely respect any decisions you make on this issue. The last thing I want to do is upset the safe place we have here.

I've also thought about how beneficial it is for us to continue this conversation in this format, not through emails. The perspective we gain from each others' opinions could be stilted if we are not all sharing....am I making any sense here? What it boils down to is this thread is good for us, and I don't want to change it. It works the way it is.

And other people still look at this thread, and I hope it helps them feel less alone, and hopeful. After all, all three of us have come a long way in the last 2 months. People talk about how hard it is to visit this page....it is, but there are also stories of healing and hope. We are some of that. People need that.

People are going to start beating me up on other threads. I keep saying 'it will be okay' and that's probably the last thing they want to hear. But it will be. I needed to know that, even if I couldn't believe it at the time.

After all of that, I still want pictures! Just so you know. I already know you, so what you look like doesn't matter. I bare my soul to you, anonymity or no doesn't change that, does it?

And Mich, I like the idea of some sort of shared talisman, to remind us of the friendship that has developed here! My MIL and my aunt both make beaded jewelry, in case you wanted someone to spearhead the effort. Maybe if we go with jewelry, we could all contribute some components, so it would have a little bit of each of us.

Okay, back to business. I am high risk because of my autoimmune disorder. Some studies show my particular disorder at least doubles the risk of m/c. So, unlike most of the women who post here, I had my eyes wide open walking into this. It's like sticking your hand on a hot burner, I guess. What did I think was going to happen?

2001 was a sad year, lots of loss. My Dad's bachelor uncle who we took care of died in May, DH's aunt at 37 of a rapid horrible infection in July, I found out in Sept. that my bone marrow recipient had not survived (I donated marrow in Aug 2000), then the attacks of Sept. 11th...we got married in October, after discussing calling off the wedding. In December I started getting letters and photos from my marrow recipient's family, as the anonymity had been lifted. It was so hard to 'meet' my recipient under those circumstances, and his family was in great pain. DH's grandmother got sick and passed away unexpectedly in Dec, and my FIL wouldn't tell my DH, he made me do it. Then my Dad's best friend passed away unexpectedly in January, and I had to tell him. It was a long string of excruciatingly sad stuff. My husband and I spent our first Christmas together like this--he would hold me and let me cry, then he would go in the back yard to smoke and cry alone. Then I would go to work in January and watch my Dad cry. He still cries for his friend, just tears up when he mentions his name.

That's the year that bruised my heart, and turned me from a strong, stoic person into one who cries daily, for almost any reason. The whole m/c experience is a revisiting of that cruel time. And the 5 year anniversaries of all those losses have weighed on me this year.

Thanks for being willing to hear all that.

But life is better, life is good. It's times like that that really make a person appreciate the smooth, easy times in life.

Okay, I'm going to go enjoy a soak in the tub,have a cup of hot tea and do some laundry! Me time, right?









K

Let us know how the computer move goes!
Tan, just in case you need another one


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## Mammax4

Keri (and Tan--when you wake up)

I think some jewelry would be great. I would be more inclined to wear other than a necklace myself, but now am thinking I would be carrying you closer to my heart that way...I am open to all. I would love to contribute some beads etc. and even more have someone experienced make it.

Kind of like a blessingway for each other, just at a different time.

I agree this is the place for us to chat. We could accomplish the same via email if we replied to all, but we need to be here... maybe our journey will help someone else. To see the ups and downs and the progression and how we can truely be there for one another would be helpful. Not to mention how darn full my inbox would be!









I would be happy to share pictures with you .... of me or us all?

Eyes wide open, but it's not 100%. If you knew it was not possible, I could see not trying, but if there is a potential even a slight possibility...I too would do it. Heart pain or not. This way, later in life, you won't say...If only I would have.

I am truly sorry for your year of losses. That would be overwhelming.









Hey Tan, did you wake up feeling super hugged this morning?









I would love to have a soak in the tub. I would love to be able to be that still for long enough to enjoy it. The last few times I tried, I have hopped out so fast, it isn't worth filling the tub for that. Maybe after all this painting I will be ready to sit. Who am I kidding! I have baking to do, b-day to organize, house to clean, furniture to move. All this and I am not complaining one bit! I can't wait to do all these things. It will mean getting my house/life back in order. And having fun too. I can't wait to put up the tree. We are having Will's b-day a week later than we had planned so that I am a little more sane. It will make a big difference to what is finished here.

Speaking of finished...I best get back to work. No slacking allowed.

Talk later.

Micheline







:


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## Tan II

Hi M & K

Wow, you hav been busy posting while I have been sleeping !

Thank you for all the hugs. I feel better today. Back on track.
I have to get through Gabriel's anniversary, and then I can breath again.
I'll be fine.

I like the idea of jewellery. And of the photos. It will be interesting to see if the image we have created of each other in our heads is like the person !

I also agree that this is the place to chat. It is a safe place, where there are no restrictions, no-one to judge and a place you can say what you feel. Not that we couldn't do that in an e-mail. There might be more pressure to "chat". Instead of letting things flow like they have been.

Keri, 2001 was a really hard year for you. I'm sure you wonder why, or why you. I hope you are able to take something positive from all your losses. I think you have, compassion. One wonders why you have to learn the "hard way". I suppose we would take everything for granted, as one does in life where there are no hardships.

Mish, u r not pushing the envelope. I'm sure that when my sister is here, we will do something together that my mom would have liked to do.

I'm glad to hear all the hard work is nearly done. I hope it has all worked out how u wanted it to.

Jamie has a bit of a cold. Actually, I'm not sure if it's a cold or hayfever allergy. It's hayfever season. He's so blocked up. Poor thing.

I'm off to do some housework. It's monday, which means change linen and towels, washing, big cleaning, etc.

I could do with some me time, but the fairies are away today !!

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hmmm, I posted this morning but it's not here....is the internet rejecting me due to overuse?

Tan, breathe. There is more going on than you are talking about, isn't there?

2001 is the baseline for grief in my life. It is what I can endure. And some of the people who passed that year weren't particularly close to me, it was the pain of watching those I loved hurt so much. So I never asked 'why me', but I did wonder if it would ever end. It seemed like I had been deluded all my life, and never really understood that life is pain. But it's not really, hooray!

The m/c experience has been similar, yet different. But it's still the same bruised heart from now on, I guess.

Jewelry---I wear anything, but like your perspective on the necklace, Mich.

Pictures---I'd like to see both of you most of all, but it would be a bonus to see pictures of your families too! Umm, that means you will get cat and dog photos. Email, or real mail?

Mich, I hope the final details have come together and it all looks fabulous!
Tan, I hope Jamie is doing better and your meeting at Tayga's school went well!

Keri


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## Mammax4

Tan, I am feeling a real restraint on your part. Is this my own projection or am I close to how it is for you right now? I wish I could remember the acronym for 'Fine' that someone once told me. It was an indication of the mask we wear when saying that. So, I guess my question to you is.. are you really fine, or are you 'fine







'?

I hope Jamie is feeling better. Chris has hayfever/allergies, so we have a runny nose boy quite frequently. Did you have your meeting on Monday? If so, did you come away feeling better?

Email or snail mail...hmmm. The instant gratification part of me says email, but it would be nice to have a photo to put somewhere. (my printer can print pictures, but I have not used it for that)

House update:

Boys are in their new rooms--we still have to build Chris' closet organizer.

Cut the livingroom again...that is 5x I think. I will roll again too, but probably not tonight. (swim lessons)

BIL is not sleeping in the playroom anymore. He is in Dan's old room now.

The playroom is organized and clean, the new tv shelf is in and set up with all the gizmos and machinery in place.

Next weekend will be the start of real mess... isn't that how it works? You have to make a bigger mess to get tidied up.?

DH and I had to take the car in to get fixed yesterday. BIL took our car to pick up his son for lunch. Someone hit our car in the parking lot when he was there. We took advantage of being in town first thing in the morning and went for breakfast. I can certainly see the difference in how I react to DH when there are moments that could increase the distance between us. Making time for us, even if it isn't a formal date (just leaving all the kids at home when picking up furniture) has increased my desire to make sure there are no misunderstandings. I am not saying I don't expect them to happen, it's just helping me want to feel more connected.

Keri, a while back it took 3x posting before it finally showed up. Tan gave me a good idea, I copy any long post before I post it. That way if it disappears I can try again. (she' so smart!)

I didn't go for a walk this morning, I was too tired. If I had this week off it would be so much better. I could be so organized. Oh well, I will be organized eventually, just not today.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi !

I'm breathing. I found it hard to answer your questions about how I'm doing. Hard because normally I would shut down and withdraw.
You both push me to face how I feel and acknowledge it. (I don't mean that in a bad way).

Denial is a great place. I live there often. So it is easier to put how I feel "away", and deal with it in small pieces. When I feel ready to.

I am feeling anxious.

A friend of mine had a baby a few days ago. I called to congratualte her. I found it so hard still.

Jamie is ok. Still a bit of a runny nose, but nothing serious.

I cancelled the meeting at the school. I didn't feel like it. I feel like "why bother". It's nearly the end of the school year, what is going to change from now until then ? Besides, we're not there for much longer. I've lost that anger.I haven't told the principal we're leaving. Not yet.

DH and I are going to see the child psychologist today. We had to change the app from friday - dh had a meeting he couldn't change.
I hope she can give us good advice. I'm so tired of the power struggles that go on.

Mish, the house sounds like it's coming together nicely.

Jamie has just woken up from his morning sleep.

It's raining and miserable today. Bbbrrrrrrrr.

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan--

You only have to reply to us pushy women when you are ready, we don't actually know when you are reading our nagging posts!

There isn't a smilie that conveys what I want...that we are right by you. I'm not sure I can say it right. That I really do keep you in my thoughts, I carry you with me through my day, and keep you in my prayers at night. And I know this isn't actually about anniversaries, but about those limited days that you had Gabriel here on earth. And what a hopeful and fearful and painful time it must have been. And to remember Gabriel is to remember what a difficult time it was, and that it is hard to separate him from that.








Your feelings are justified and acceptable. Share whenever you are ready.

And you just scared me a little by saying that it still bothers you when other women have babies. I thought maybe I would get over that, and you just smacked me with some reality. Oh well, better to know that it might go on for a long time, than to keep thinking it will go away.

You have company. My lunatic self is back. Anger and tears and I'm not sure why. Is it the medical releases from the RE I got in the mail today? The wheelchair we bought for my Mom today? The fact that my cycle is back to its normal 28 days as of today, which means the game is on and I'm not quite ready? The holidays exerting their nasty melancholic influence? Where the hell are my coping skills? None of those things should be putting me over the edge, but here I hang.

Maybe it's just vicarious anxiety for you, Tan.

So how are you, Mich? Really?

Two meditations today:
If at times we are somewhat stunned by the tempest, never fear; let us take breath, and go on afresh. --Francis de Sales

Have courage for the great sorrows of life, and patience for the small ones; and when you have laboriously accomplished your daily task, go to sleep in peace. God is awake. --Victor Hugo

You are such dear friends. Thanks for continuing to be here.

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

Thanks for giving me the space I need, and for being there for me at the same time.
It's reassuring to know u r there should i need u. Also to know that I have my space to figure out my head.

Just so u know, I don't normally freak out when people have babies. I don't know why I am feeling so sensitive about this one. Could just be the time of the year. Could just be that I know how precious it is to have a healthy baby. I don't know.

I hope u r feeling better. It's ok to feel the way you do. You have gone through a long, frustrating process. Now it's beginning again. Hopefully this time the end result will be different to before.
You don't have to be brave and "together" all the time. It's ok to be pissed off and angry and frustrated.

Take a deep breathe, give a good scream, punch some pillows and have a nice glass of wine ! It will work out. What ever the end result is, it will be the best for you. (Also all easier said than done).

Thanks for the meditations.

How is your DH feeling ? Better I hope.

I feel so much pain today. I don't kow why. Probably the anticipation of the day. Just remembering it all. I have that "butterflies in your stomach" feeling.

It's days like this I avoid people who know me well, or remember the upcoming date. I avoid them becasue it's harder to pretend all is ok. Only because I don't have the words to express how I feel.

Thanks for "holding my hand" and expecting nothing back.

Got to get Tayga from school, go to tennis (if it's not raining). Then drop him off at my sil while DH and I meet with the psychologist. Jamie will have to come with. He's having a bit of seperation anxiety at the moment, so he won't stay without dh or myself.

Better organise myself.

Chat later
Tan


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## Mammax4

T & K

I think part of the strong attraction to being here (for me) is the lack of pressure. It's okay if I feel bad/down, it's okay if I feel happy...I don't need to justify anything...you both understand...you both prod me (as we all seem to do for each other) but there is no pressure. If I don't/can't answer something, we carry on and there is no negative effect in my silence. It is true safe space. Positive space, you know you can be real here--not the 'real' we present to others.

I honestly don't know where I would be right now if I didn't have the two of you here. (I don't think that I would be having the increasingly positive days that I am now)

How am I ? Today is a bit of a crappy day, truthfully. (funny how that question seems to pop up when you need to have it asked of you...even if you can't answer it at that moment) Sometimes I look in on my old DDC. That desire has decreased of late and the effect when I have been there has been reduced. Well, today I went in and it was a really bad idea. There was a thread complaining about nothing to wear and being done with being pregnant. I understand this, I know it is difficult towards the end... btdt. It was all I could do not to post...*Do YoU Know How LucKy you ARe to stiLL be Pregnant!?! HaVE You CONsidereD WHat Your ALterNative WouLd Be?* Oh to have that to complain about. I have felt like I was going to be sick to my stomach for most of the day...

Tan, I understand not bothering with the meeting. As you say, there isn't much longer for Tayga to be there. If his teacher is not so good with him, it is probably for the best. I worried about retaliation (towards Chris) from one of Chris' teachers. We had her with Dan and did NOT want her again. She was positively Nasty! In the end, it worked out okay.

Keri, perhaps one of these things would not be enough to push you over the edge...but all at once. Fear is a very powerful thing. What does this mean for your Mom...what if you get pregnant...what if you don't... Reminders of your losses, on paper (not that you need a reminder) in your face, all the tests and what you have gone through...what will this be like at the new clinic. There is no time to process what is happening, there is no time to breathe. Your Mom has changed so quickly, physically (from what I have read) that is scary too. It's kind of like trying to tread water in quicksand. It's that door we want to go through that is in the hallway that never ends.

Maybe for me it is partially the change in the weather. We have had so much rain in the past week or so. Maybe it's that I'm ovulating and that is screaming in my head (not to mention hormones) Maybe we are so tuned into each other we have collective emotional states. (sorry couldn't resist an attempt at sci-fi type humor)

I must go up and finish making spagetti sauce. We have taken the night off- no house fixing allowed. DH lit a fire (I said I would like one, it's cold tonight) and has a movie on, I should try and sit down with him for a few minutes.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Tan and Mich--

Maybe we do have collective moods....at least we don't feel alone!

Tan, have you screamed and punched pillows then taken a deep breath and had a glass of wine? I will if you will. Mich, are you in?

Personal opinion--you need to search for the words to express what you feel, or if it's not words, paint it or sculpt it, or find songs or poems that say it...something to help get it out. And perhaps it's time to be a little honest with the people in your life. Just say, 'today's a bit rough, I'm really missing my Gabriel these days.' Something is telling me that would be really really hard for you. But if you're not okay, it takes a ton of energy to pretend you are. Trust me, we all know that.

Maybe just tell people you are finding the world to be a bit heavy these days. Less personal. Still accurate. It's just letting a little pressure out, so it doesn't build up quite so much.

Just find the words. You need them. At least here with us, if not IRL.

Mich, what were you thinking!?! I would forbid you to visit the pregnant people places on the board, but you are an adult. And out of the country. And not under my evil control!

(Sometimes I engage in self torture also.)







:

You want to remind them they are lucky, I want to tell them to cross their fingers and pray real hard for the strength to follow whatever their road may be, because we all know the reality of what can happen. I could never be blindly optimistic about being pregnant or having kids. There is too much reality on this board, but also those 2 customers I met, who talked about their newborn grandsons never making it out of the hospitals. And I read the obituaries.

Oh. I'm turning into one of those people who will never let their kids out of the house. That is just wrong.

And Mich, you are quite accurate with your assessment of things. I do feel like I'm trying to tread water in quicksand. I want out!

Tan--butterflies in stomach. Mich--sick to the stomach. Me--completely, totally, physically tense. Entire body. For the 3rd or 4th day now. This is not good. Not to mention extremely cranky.

Mich, ovulation and period, you get the reminder twice a month of what you want but aren't getting. That sucks. I don't know how you get right with that, other than maybe looking at it as preserving a strong marriage.

Glad you took some time off with your DH.

I don't like mine today. Don't want time with him.

Tan, I hope the visit with the child psych went well, was a step in the right direction.

Meditation for the day, even though it's not resonating with me:
Even in the dark, you have the power to whistle. --Frederick Buechner

Maybe I don't want to make happy! It goes on to talk about initiating moods, instead of 'getting' them by reacting to things. Damn it. I didn't want control. Now it's resonating with me, stupid meditation. Okay, I'm off to try to make a better mood. Music, tea, perfume, singing loudly in car, I'll have a cookie or two. I just don't know if that will work.

Sigh. I'll check in later.


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## Mammax4

Keri and Tan,

I can't help but think of the 'Don't worry, Be happy' song...that darn meditation put that in my head. Owning our state sucks...it is so much easier to wallow in it if that is what we feel. I suppose you can own your own wallowing. (I know that is not the meditations point.)

I am in, although I will have to partake of other spirits. I can't drink wine, it gives me a headache.

What is your DH doing that has sparked not wanting to be with him? Is it fertility/baby stuff or is he being a doodle-head?

I hope that down the road I am not a bitter partner. It is really hard not to blame (or direct negatives at) DH for the lost opportunity. I do understand his concerns, but in the same breath they seem like a convenient excuse. Having a baby is not something you can force on someone. (not in a healthy relationship anyway) I don't think it is wise or fair to make someone do something they really don't want to do. Yet here I stand, with the reverse position and the imposed restriction. Most importantly, for me, I would never want to bring a child into a family where there would be hostility towards them being there. I'm not saying DH would be physical (we're not that way) but it would be the tone, body language etc.

The in my face reminders are part of what make a hysterectomy seem so appealling. I have an appointment with a gyne Dr in January. I have a vaginal wall prolapse that I want to have repaired. It was discovered when I was at the hospital for the miscarriage. In the sick side of my brain, I kind of hope that there is reason to remove my uterus. It would be taken out of my hands that way. The flip side is that if my DH ever changed his mind (not going to happen) or something happened that made his position not an issue anymore I (at this moment) think I would get pregnant again. I don't know if I really would, but that is how I feel today.

Now, out of that bad space and on to something else...

What about the pics? For now, just us? Hard copy or email copy? What about the jewelry? Keri, could you ask your MIL and/or Aunt if they would make them. What are we wanting? How many beads? I'll share my thoughts on what I would like to see on the pieces...

I would like some type of pink and blue ribbon either bead or charm. This (to me) is symbolic of not only our losses, but what brought us together--a tie that binds us together. My preference would be a charm, as it is more obviously a 'tie'.

A stone that means friendship/love.

A stone that reflects the energy/spirit I see in you.

What are your thoughts on this?

I am off to get some breakfast for Will. I will check in later.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Wow. I made it through the whole day without killing a single person.

Sometimes it's the little things, ya know? Like not committing homicide. Yay, Keri!

Yes, Mich, you can drink whatever you want. I got to work and burned a coke (with Canadian whiskey, actually) and I have the best boss ever, he drank one with me. Before noon. The act of antisocial rebellion helped. At this age, who'd have thunk?

It may be a cold coming on (lots of sneezing), sometimes in the past I have noticed some crankiness when an illness sets in. I have been drinking echinacea tea and popping chewable vitamin c, so hopefully it will go away and let me live in peace.

I was expressing my frustration this morning to DH about my Mom dragging her heels on making an appointment at the Mayo clinic, as her neurological deterioration progresses. He said something about how now I kinda knew how he felt. I asked him to explain. He was frustrated with how long it took me to call the current clinic. Well, excuse the hell out of me, when your body is the one expelling our babies, when you have to go through the invasive appointments and procedures, when your body bears the scars and the pain and the wretched hormonal issues that don't go away when the baby does, maybe then you can bitch at me for my reluctance! Gigantic jackass.

Still, I didn't yell or kill. Where is my medal?

I will stop my stewing in my venom and get back to trying to help.

Tan, I am sorry you are feeling pain. I wish I knew some magic words that would take it away. I wish I could bear some of the pain for you, to ease your burden. All I know I can do is just be here.

Same for you, Mich. I didn't know about your vaginal wall prolapse (kinda scary?), and the underlying sort-of desire for a hysterectomy, but I completely understand it. Sometimes it would be easier to have the decision out of our hands.

Life can be so heavy.

So I'll switch to lighter stuff now. Pics of just us would be fine, especially seeing as how I have established myself as a maniac tonight! Digital would be faster, and my more recent photos are all digital. If we go with film, you'll be getting wedding photos from me, which you may get anyway! But if you really want hard copies, that's not a problem, it'll just take me a little longer to get them done. But I could send photos with jewelry....

As far as jewelry, I like the idea of all the symbolism. I prefer silver, as a foundation. What are your metal preferences? I'm not sure who to ask--both my aunt or my MIL would be more than happy to make them. I'll do some research on what type of beads are available, and what the significance the different stones have.

Hmm. Focusing on the necklace has completely distracted me from myself. Should have done this sooner.

Please take care, good friends.

K


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## Tan II

Hi K & M

Keri, I'm glad to hear u didn't kill anyone !!
I know what you mean about the little things. Sometimes all those little things add up and then you crack. Crack, but don't kill anyone !!

I hope u r feeling better. I hope you have caught the cold in the bud and that you get rid of it quickly.

Have u made friends with dh yet ? I understand what u r saying and agree with you. I do also understand what your dh is saying and agree with him. It's one of those no - win situations, where it's hard to all concerned.
At least he expressed how he's feeling, and not let it stew.

Btw, your medal is in the post. With the cheque. Ha ha !

Digital pics would be better and quicker. As far as metals go, I like silver ! How are we going to pay for all the beads etc ?

Great news. DH & I met with the child psych yesterday. What a wonderful woman. Anyway after an hour and a half she came to the conclusion that all is ok in the land of Tayga. He's just frustrated and angry with his teacher and it's coming out in his behaviour. She said imagine if you were in a job, and your boss shouted at u all the time. And whatever u did wasn't good enough. You wouldn't want to put any effort into your work. You wouldn't want to be there. You would mess around.

I left there feeling very relieved and happy to know that he's ok. I knew that in my heart. I just needed to be 100%.

Moving schools will be the best thing for him.

IF his behaviour continues at the new school, then obviously we will investigate further. Until then, he's a normal 7 year old boy, who is a bit too bright for his age !

Mish and Keri, I hoipe you are feeling "on top" of things. Life is no bowl of cherries.

Going to relax with a cup of tea, and have 5 minutes of "me" time !

Chat later.
Tan


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## Mammax4

Oh crap!!! You know the gyne guy I am supposed to see in Jan... well, his office phoned me this afternoon and told me there had been a cancellation and would I like to come in TOmorrow at 10am. Now I am thinking what did I just say and did I bring that hysterectomy on ... I am NOT ready!! A moment of panic, this too will pass. I don't have a big prolapse, I wasn't really aware of it until the Dr told me. It does explain stuff a bit though. There is nothing falling out of my vagina or anything like that. Some of the pictures are scary. I don't want to have my insides falling out though, so I thought I would see what my options are.








Keri... I am not worthy... You are amazing! No yelling or violence, now that is restraint!

Did/does your DH know he pushed the brainfart button? Was he sheepish at all after his comment? Did he realize how that comment effected you? Just make sure your pillow stays under your head tonight and not on his face!









Silver works for me. I will browse the bead store here. We have a big one downtown. I have wanted to go for ages, but never manage to get there...I feel a little me time coming on. We will have to figure out if we want to send beads or divide the bill or each buy the supplies at home and send them to you Keri. I would like to send some beads as I would like to personally pick one for each of you. I am happy to send what ever is needed, but for sure I want to send one for each ?? what ever it is that we are making.

Tan I wish we were closer. Words are helpful, but sometimes a person being there ~ even if they are silent ~ can be so much more.

Keri, is it Thanksgiving this weekend or next? What is your table count up to now? (btw-I vote purple) Would you say your MIL or Aunt is more spiritual? Do you feel a stronger connection to either one?

I should go check on DH...he is not well again. He goes to the Dr on Monday. Hopefully that can start another round of investigation in to what is causing this.

Talk to you tomorrow.

Micheline







:


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

I hope u didn't cancel your appointment. Be brave. You can do it.

I'd also like to select some beads and send them. Nice idea.

Mish, just knowing you are around to lend an ear (eye !)to vent, offer a shoulder to cry on, "hand to hold", share a laugh. Even though we are miles away, is reassuring. Thanks.

I hope your dh feels better.

I made a chocolate mousse now. We are out for dinner tomorrow night. I hope it's ok. It didn't look like it normally does. The egg whites took ages to mix into the mixture. Well, if it's not, I have time to make something else. My fool-proof apple pie !

Going to shower.

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Nothing falling out of your vagina!!!

Sorry, Mich. I was just picturing walking down the street with you.









I know it's serious. I will stop. Go to the doctor. You did not bring anything on with mere thoughts, if it worked that way I'd have 5 kids, a maid and a nicer car! And the photos of my perfectly normal innards are pretty scary too, so hopefully it's not as bad as you are thinking. DH wouldn't take the pics when the RE handed them to him after the laparascopic surgery, I had to pick them up at the next appointment. So I hope you get all kinds of information at the appointment, and I'm sorry you didn't get to work your way up to the appointment. You know how I appreciate prep time. Keep us posted.

Tan, I'm check the mailbox for the medal, oooh and prize money. I already have an Australian penny, I think, the big coin with the kangaroo? I may start carrying it around and pretend it's my Didn't Kill Ya medal.

You can't agree with me AND with my DH, stop being so reasonable!







:

I have accepted his perspective, forgiven him for it even though it's reasonable, and have moved on. He looked kinda scared when he was telling me, so he knew he was about to be a doodle head. I do not believe he was in the Army for 10 years, big chicken.

Yes, Mich, it's fear. You nailed it. The next few months, the next year, 2 years, could be pretty rough, and I am not ready. I hope acknowledging it will make some of the fear go away. I feel somewhat less nuts today, so it may be working...

I'm glad your DH has another appointment. What are his symptoms, if you don't mind me asking? One of my brother's friends had nasty stomach trouble for years (eating even a normal serving size of anything would make him want to throw up). He finally went to the doctor, and tried a few things before coming up with a med that has really helped.

I like the idea of hand-picked beads from all of us, if you don't mind paying the postage. I'm picturing the beads hanging off the necklace, not strung on a chain, like I was first thinking. Ideas?

Lastnight I read about kunzite, a pink stone. It is supposedly the symbol of beginning a new life. I thought that would be really fitting.

My aunt is more spiritual. Either my aunt or my MIL would be very touched if I asked them to do this project. I haven't told my aunt about our m/c's, but that's because we have only been around each other in group settings, and it's not going to be a dinner table discussion. I would only hesitate to tell her because she is verrrry tender hearted, and she would hurt on our behalf. She is only an hour away, whereas MIL is 12 hours away, so it could be easier to do this locally. I'll make a decision, I'll talk with DH about it when he's completely out of the doghouse.

Thanksgiving is a week from tomorrow, headcount is a mere 6, possible 7. Thanks for the input, Mich, purple it is! What are you guys bringing?

Tan, the distance is what keeps you talking to us, isn't it? I mean, besides our natural charm and brilliance...

How is your DH doing these days? Do you talk about Gabriel?

I am glad the psychologist reassured you that Tayga is normal! When does your school year end? Hopefully it will fly by, and you can look forward to the change next year.

Hang in there, friends....there's a lot going on here. Let it loose here (or anywhere else you want to, of course!)

Keri


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## Tan II

Mish, Happy Birthday for Will !!!







: (I might be a bit early for u, but here it's nearly lunchtime of the 17th !!). I hope he has a great day. What are you doing today to celebrate?

Keri,I'll make something for dessert









I suppose the distance does keep me talking. And the fact that I am "safe" behind my computer. I can say what I feel without having to check myself. Without having to have a smile on my face and without having to re-assure you that I'm ok. I can just be. Having your and Mish's support and friendship is a bonus.

I had no expectations joining this forum. So to come away with you and Mish is great.

I like the idea of a bracelet. Something you can look at all the time, and think of each other, and what the different beads represent.

DH hasn't said a thing about Gabriel. Neither have I.

The school year ends 23 Dec. The kids have a 6 or 7 week vac (I think). So not long to go.

Mish & Keri, I hope u r both feeling ok - for your own reasons.

Going to have some lunch !
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hello, friends!

I'm following Tan's lead here, since she's the organized one: Happy Birthday, Will!














Hope it's full of love and fun!

Weren't you rescheduling the birthday party due to the open house? Or some other scheduling conflict, Mich? I swear, I try to pay attention, but my brain is like a sieve.

Oh, Lola is driving me batty. If only she would simply lay down on my lap, instead of walking back and forth across it, interfering with my ability to type!

I did have expectations joining this forum. For a couple of months I had lurked on the fertilichat boards, but the most active threads on the boards seemed to be for those going through medically assisted conception. I didn't really feel I fit in, even though there was a real community, very nice people. I should check in and see how some of them are doing--just lurking, I never actually joined.

I had looked at some of the miscarriage sites too. An etiquette forum actually came up on one of my google searches on m/c, due to people asking questions about how address such a thing....I post there sometimes, there were enough people who had been through similar things, that's the first place I ever felt like I had some company. But it's not a place where I talk about my heart and soul, it's the casual decompression space for when I can't quite handle being here. There are some really nice people there too, but I don't feel any kind of deep connection with them.

But then I stumbled across this board, with everybody calling each other 'mama' and giving hugs and really talking with each other....and the more I read other parts of the website, the more I realize how much I belong here.

So I guess I expected some conversation and support and warmth from this board, which is exactly what I have gotten. Except I also got friends, which is the bonus!

Do either of you subscribe to Mothering magazine? I'm going to, when the time comes. Right now I still don't want anything showing up in the mail with photos of pregnant women.

Tan, I guess maybe you and your DH both know what (who) is on your minds, at least part of the time. It kinda goes without saying.

My insanity has faded, but I'm still....edgy.

Yesterday was the Great American Smokeout (a day for smokers to band together and try to quit) and I told DH he needed to stop smoking. Lots of studies show an association between men smoking and their partners having m/c's. He can't keep puffing away while I prepare myself for what could be another m/c. It's just wrong. He didn't say much, but I told him we weren't going to try for another pregnancy until he cleared some of that pollution out of his system. Now he's in control of something. I have asked him about this before, and he did nothing, but he is sure comfortable micromanaging what goes into my body.....

Still have some pent up resentment, apparently.

Hmmm. Now I want a necklace AND a bracelet...so I can wear the necklace during the week, when I have to be careful about jewelry and often don't wear even my wedding ring. And then I can wear the bracelet on weekends, like you said, Tan, it would be more visible. Is that being spoiled rotten selfish? I'll work on picking one or the other. But they don't all have to be the same thing, it will be the stones or beads that hold the significance.

So I am doing better-ish. How are you doing, Tan? Really?

And Mich, how did the appointment go? I've been thinking of you, hoping it went well, and of your DH too. How are you doing? Really?

Tan, thanks for bringing a dessert to Thanksgiving, I was hoping you would!

Marriage care--other then attacking DH's smoking, we sat on the couch holding hands last night. I think that comes out even.

Self care--going shopping with just the girls tomorrow. Shopping always involves a cocktail midway through.

I'm trying!

Meditation du jour:
...And I knew...
That when the sea comes calling you stop being good neighbors, Well acquainted, friendly from a distance neighbors, And you give your house for a coral castle, And you learn to breath underwater. ---Carol Bialock

Feels familiar, doesn't it?

Bye for now!
K


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## Mammax4

Thanks for the Birthday wishes! Will had a fun day. We made cupcakes during the day. He chose the menu for dinner last night. (steak, rice, carrots and cucumber) We had icecream cake for his birthday cake. (his request







...I love making birthday cakes) We are going bowling this afternoon. He will have his 'kid' party next weekend. Our house should be better organized by then. There will be more pressure to get it done too. I can't believe there is only 2 weeks until our open house. Yikes!

When I started here, I was in the Jan DDC. I signed up and was all ready to go, but just never felt like I belonged. The mammas there are great, but I just never got that 'comfy'...yep, I belong here feeling. When things turned me towards this forum, I lurked for a long time. When I finally posted, there was such an overwhelming feeling of love and compassion and warmth. I found where I belong. I don't think I would have searched out a loss forum, I would have stewed in my own vile head. I am thankful every day that I have come here and been able to process my thoughts and feelings. To know you are not alone is a huge thing. I do find it hard when I see new people coming here, I think about how I felt back then. In the same breath, I think how good it is for them to have come here, because there is such light in all the darkness. When I joined, I expected to share my pregnancy with others that were due around the same time as me. Instead, I have shared my loss and myself and found the new me and some great friends. What a path my life has crossed!

My gyne appointment was alright. Kind of a bit weird. To check on the prolapse, one must cough while the dr is examining you. I thought only men had to drop their drawers and cough! While I have nothing hanging/falling out of my vagina (such a great visual in your head now that you can picture me with such a thing!) I do have a moderate prolapse. It is actually more than a vaginal wall prolapse. It is a uterine prolapse that is causing/resulting in the wall prolapse. So, he presented many options for me...do nothing, wait and see, use a device to keep it up, hysterectomy. Can you guess what I chose? Yep, I am going to be a hyster sister in the next 4-6 months. There is much that goes on with a prolapse that would be really nice to be rid of. Bladder issues, no I don't pee my pants, but I do have troubles peeing. Sex isn't the most comfortable thing. Sometimes when I sit down, I get this really sharp shooting pain, it feels like I am sitting on my cervix.

I could choose to do any of the other options, but for me, the hysterectomy made the most sense. Not in my irrational 'rip it out' self, but to my normal 'really what would be best for me' self. If it is moderate now, I don't want to wait until it is severe and have to wait a whole long time to have it done then. I can't imagine what it would feel like to have to live with my cervix hanging out of me. I could use the device, but I have such a sensitive system, I would have constant infections... NO Thanks! Not to mention some 'thing' always in 'there'. So, for me, that seemed to be the best direction. I will be in the hospital for 2 or 3 days and then am supposed to be off work for 4-6 weeks after that. There is no way I will be able to manage that...I will go crazy! I don't sit down and stay still very well.
Wanna come and take care of me? (said in a whiney voice)

DH's symptoms: stomach upset, gas, nausea, diarrhea, bloating, pain.

How has your dh been since you said no smoking? They can be funny when stuff gets put on them. It is much easier to tell someone else how it would be best if... but when you are challenged to put your best ~ well... it is hard to look in the mirror and see that we too have some responsibility or an opportunity to make things better if we change what we are doing.

Keri, where do you work that you can't wear jewelry? Is it workplace (job) safety issues, or location issues?

I want a bracelet and a necklace too. Do we have to choose? necklace-beads hanging, bracelet beads strung and maybe a dangly bit or two (my 2 pennies) no cervix shaped anything dangling off mine thanks!







:

I must get to work. If I am asking others to put their best effort forward, it is hardly fair I sit on my butt doing nothing. I am hoping DH will put up the outside lights today. We have had soooo much rain in the last while. They are having real problems all over the place... flooding, roads washing out, contaminated drinking water. We are okay, but it is oppressive to have all that rain.

awww, my DH just came by and asked if I was talking to my friends.

I best get to work!

I will check in later. Have a fun day shopping Keri, I wish I could come! Tan, I hope you are having a good sleep and will have some fun plans for today.

Micheline







:


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## Tan II

Hey Mish. A hysterectomy. Wow. How do u feel about that ? Are you happy that the decision was sort of made for you ? Do u think that u will have peace once it has been done?
What does your dh say about it?

I'll take care of you. I'll bake you biscuits and make you mugs of hot chocolate.

Has your dh been tested to see if he is gluten intolerant or lactose intolerant?
My dh had similar symptoms. He didn't go for testing (typical male), but I have cut things out from his diet and it has made a difference. I've stopped cooking with onions.

Keri, how was your shopping ? I hope u had fun, and bought lots of nice things too !

I joined this forum becasue I was at such a low point in my life. Everything seemed to be crashing down on me. I was too tired to "swim". I was drowning.
I felt alone, was lonely, had no-one to talk to - really talk to. To open up how I felt. Talk about my fears, pain, joy - to be sad, to be happy.
To be able to talk without being judged or to have to make excuses about the way I felt.
THEN ........... I found this forum and you guys.
What a difference it makes to be able to share the load. All I can say, is that I am swimming again. Sometimes I take in gulps of water and choke. Most times, I am swimming. And swimming well








So thank you for letting me not drown. For being my lifesavers.

As next sunday approaches, I feel anxious. My chest tightens and I feel like I am gasping for air. It is so hard to think where we were this time 3 years ago. And to remember "the day". Getting the call, and racing over to the hospital. Praying it wasn't going to happen, but knowing it was.

I still wonder how I got through it all. I am amazed. When I think about it all, I cannot believe that I went through everything I did. It still boggles my brain. At the time, I was so caught up in it all to think about it (that probably sounds silly). Now when I reflect and think about it, I don't know how I did it.

I have to say, I SURVIVED. I am here to tell the tale. IO will never be the same old me that I was. I am a new me. With each year, I heal a bit more. The pain is a bit less. I will ALWAYS have pain. I will always ache for Gabriel.

I hug my children at night and realise how lucky I am to have them.

Moving along .........

The rest of the weekend was great. LAst night (sat), we did our usual. Dvd's and take-outs.
Today we went for breakfast. In the afternoon we chilled out. Then we met friends for an early dinner.

Now I am off to make school lunch for tomorrow, have a cup of tea, shower and jump into bed.

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hey, Tan and Mich!

I wish you two could have been shopping with us! We had a lot of fun. Of course, the margaritas helped...it's been a long time since I had that much to drink! They were just so tasty....and I did get a big chunk of Christmas shopping done. Good stuff.

Mich, I'll help take care of you too. I'll bring magazines and cookbooks and talk until you tell me to go away! I make good soup, too.

I'm sorry you have to have the hysterectomy. It's a strange thing, to face the prospect of having a part of your body removed. The RE thought my left fallopian tube was screwy, that's why they did the laparoscopic surgery and I thought they were taking it out. Turns out it was okay. But it was a disturbing thing to face.

But I am glad it will correct a whole host of problems, I did not realize you were having such issues. Yuck. It sounds really unpleasant. So I'm kinda happy for you too, that the surgery will restore some comfort to you.

The picture of my family at the restaurant---that was 2 weeks to the day after my lapar. surgery. The flight to San Fran was really uncomfortable. But all the walking (we toured a ton on foot) really helped, because the flight back was much better. I don't know what my point is...

But the hysterectomy does solve the 'more kids' issue. I'm sorry, I know you want more.









Tan, we'll keep you afloat, you know that!

Tell us anything that's weighing on you. Maybe it can help lighten your load. I can't imagine what it must have been like, what you are reliving in these days. I would like to be there to hold your hand, and help you breathe deeply, and get through this.

I'd probably take you shopping and make you drink margaritas, so it's probably best I'm not there...

Before the surgeries, and with all the testing after m/c #3, I was having anxiety issues too. Really light headed, like I wasn't getting enough air, and I'd have to sit down and put my head between my knees....not good when driving. I started really trying to slow my breathing down, inhale deeply and exhale deeply and slowly, and that helped. That and letting the pressure out here.

This place has saved my sanity too. I wasn't looking for a place to talk, just a place to listen and feel less alone. Boy, am I glad I started talking, and found both of you! Like you said, Mich, it just felt like the right place. And it is.

Will certainly picked a fun menu for his b-day! I'm glad he had a good day.

Tan, your weekend sounds great! DH and I are doing some shopping today also, so it's turning out to be pretty fun.

Mich, I'll check with my brother's friend and see what his symptoms were and what has been done to help him. I don't have a lot of details, but I do know he suffered for years before finding what helped...

And please send rain! We have been in drought here for years. It was better this year, but we still need more moisture.

My parents' business deals with blacksmithing equipment, so I work with lots of heavy metal parts. My wedding ring is off so it doesn't get damaged---I don't wear bracelets to work for that reason. Necklaces are okay. But I love bracelets, and wear them on the weekends. That's why I would like both...

Meditation of the day:
The world is not divided into the strong who care and the weak who are cared for. We must each in turn care and be cared for, not just because it is good for us, but because it is the way things are. --Sheila Cassidy

That's us, isn't it?

Take care, friends. Tan, keep swimming! I'm here with a life preserver, just in case.

Keri


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## Mammax4

My Friends,

Oh to be so comfortable talking about my private parts! And here comes more. Soon I will get kicked out for too graphic conversations!









I had my tubes tied when Chris was 15 months old. He was a precipitous birth (5-6 cm to delivered in less than 30 min) I had some issues to take care of, so thought we may as well get the permanent prevention in place as we figured we were done. From that moment until I had my first reversal 3 or 4 years later I had the nasties AF you could ever hope not to encounter. It was every 16 days and lasted 10 days and was very heavy. I actually went to the first gyne guy for a hysterectomy because I didn't want to live like that any more. I had a panic moment and realized that was not the right thing for me because I wanted another baby.

So, in a way, I am prepared to do this. Since the m/c my cycles are messed up again (28 days but 10-14 days long) That combined with the other physical aspects makes it okay (in some ways) to do this. I will always want one more, but that is not my path. Not now. If later things change, we can look at adoption. We had started to look into that before, when Chris was little. I would like to do foster care at some point, and that is not something we would do with small children in the house. (better safe than sorry) So perhaps this is an opportunity to come to that path. I wouldn't be surprised if I have some hesitance when it comes close to the time. I don't want anyone to know at this point. It feels like it would be a real invasion into my space. I am almost...embarrassed...that isn't the right word. Maybe more like less womanly. Somehow not being able to get pregnant will be weird-- even if we were never to try again.

I don't know how to read DH about the hyster. His Mom almost died when she had hers, so I know he is anxious. Her complication was not the surgery, but the meds after. He was asking about if I would need HRT or what would be done. I am not losing my ovaries, so that isn't an issue. I may go into early menopause though. (oh joy!)

Will's bowling was fun. I suck at bowling - Will even beat me... and embarrassingly so at that! I was showing Will how to bowl and he stood up when I wasn't looking. His head hit my chin (hard) and I bit my tongue and have chipped or cracked a tooth. I will need to see the dentist this week. Poor boy, his bean sure took a beating.

We are getting some of the window trim up right now, so I will get back to you in the morning.

TTYL
Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Mich, you haven't even begun to get graphic. Talk away! It is interesting, how comfortable a person can get with talking about really private stuff. All the doctors and surgeries you have had, your body goes from personal to clinical pretty fast.

It is good that you are relatively comfortable with the hysterectomy. That would be a big hurdle to clear, mentally, if you hadn't already faced it. And, wowza, your cycle sounds hideous! It would be a relief to put an end to that, I would guess. Good news about keeping the ovaries, I had wondered about them.

Sorry to hear about the head/chin collision. I'm not sure who got the worst of it, Will or you. Ouch! Is there a trip to the dentist in the works now?

Bowling. I am such a bad bowler, we would probably have a lot of fun together! It's not fun to bowl with anybody I know, they take it too seriously.

Tan, where are you? I saw you posted, but not here--I do that when I'm afraid I will drag this thread down. What do you need, what can we do?









I wish we had the necklaces/bracelets now, so you would have the constant reminder.

I'll check in later.

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi K& M

Mish I hope your mouth is ok. Ow. It must have been so sore. Did u want to shout/cry, but knew that it wasn't on purpose so u couldn't.

You sound like u r in a good head space. Good for you.

Keri thanks for your hug. I am good.Strangely, I feel ok. Just really tired. I am so good with taking my thyroid medication, but for some strange reason over the weekend forgot. I don't know if that is playing havoc with my levels. Or if it's coincidence that I am so tired. Maybe all the late nights and early mornings are catching up with me.
Yesterday afternoon Tayga and I were playing playstation after school. After a while I lay back on the floor and fell asleep. Out cold ! Not for long. Tayga kept on saying "Wow Mom, did u see that?". I'm like "wow, good racing !"

Over the weekend I slept every afternoon. That's so not me.

DH keeps on telling me to get into bed earlier. I just can't seem to do it.

Yesterday was a HOT







day. Today is also meant to be boiling. 96.8 F

I forgot to tell u that I had ME time on the weekend. I had a wax and a pedicure. The ped was so relaxing.

I better get moving. Got to start getting ready for the morning rush !

CHat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan, you are welcome (for the hug). I give hugs in real life too, so it isn't just an icon. It's what I would be doing, until you make me stop!

I guess it could be missing the thyroid meds for a couple days that's making you tired, but I have always been told that thyroids are slow to react to things like that....but I'm not sure any dr. I've seen REALLY understands the thyroid gland very well.

It could also be a touch of something, headcold or the like, that your body is busy fighting off.

My sleep cycle is messed up too--DH tells me the same thing yours does! If I would just go to bed earlier, I would not be hazy all day long. Maybe I'll try that tonight. It would help to be rested up for Thanksgiving on Thursday, since it entails so much organization that does not come to me naturally.....

This weekend I hope to launch back into the Great Basement Organization Effort. Sounds fun, doesn't it? Maybe we will actually unpack everything, so we can sort it properly. After 5 years, who needs the stuff in the boxes, right?

Good job on the 'me' time!

I still carve out a little bit of everyday to read, does that count? I'm actually still in WWII, 1944. Currently reading about the South Pacific, so Australia, New Zealand and New Guinea...my Dad's Uncle served on islands off the coast of NG, constructing landing strips. He spent some time in Australia--I have 2 beer labels he peeled off while on leave there. It's part of my window into where you live, I guess...I should check through the box of his War stuff, and see if there's anything else from Australia.

DH and I had some couple time last night. We make Korean style dumplings, yakamandu Scott calls them. (He was stationed in Korea when he was in the Army.) So instead of watching tv, we set up an assembly line in the kitchen and worked together for an hour or so. It was nice, we both enjoyed doing that. And we got about a hundred of the tasty little things made, for freezing. Yum.

98? That's steamy! It's supposed to be 50 here, which is kinda warm for this time of year. Well, have fun in the sun! Or take a nap in the shade....

Just for good measure...









Keri


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## Mammax4

Ditto on the sleep cycle thing. Who needs sleep anyway? Well, I know I do, but it just doesn't seem to be happening.

I am in a weird head space at the moment. I am okay and not okay at the same time. Too many things to do, too little down time and too much stuff in my head. I bawled like I haven't in a long time on Sunday night. (everyone else was in bed, I was up folding laundry) I am slipping back into the numb-disconnected space again. Lost.
Havin' my own little pity party.

I guess a large part of that is the hysterectomy. I am a little ?? I don't know what. It is one thing (in my head) to 'not try' to have a baby...the reality that I couldn't is a whole different ballgame, even though the end results (no more) would be the same. I guess part of me was hoping that I could talk/wear down/convince DH that we should try again. Part of me is angry that he is not having to bear responsibility for pregnancy prevention. It has always been me...he is too chicken to get a vasectomy. I know this has nothing to do with the hysterectomy, I am not using that as birth control...yet it is birth control at the same time. Maybe I am just angry and he is a convenient target.

I have a lot to process. So many changes, so much to deal with and so long to wait.

My Mom forwarded an email from my cousin...his wife just had their baby at 2 minutes after midnight this morning.
His pictures are beautifully painful.

Maybe that is the real instigator of my bad space today. I can't help but think 'it should be me soon'. I am hoping against hope that I don't get a call for the surgery at the end of January...that would be sad.

Sorry for the rant -- no I'm not...thanks for listening.









Micheline







:







:


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## lolalapcat

Mich--

I'm sorry you are in a yuck place right now. The up-and-down of all this is frustrating, isn't it? "I feel better, wait-no I don't, yes I do..."

It was one of those mornings for me, all weepy while cleaning house. No, house cleaning doesn't usually do that to me! Now I'm cranky. Verrrrry cranky. People absolutely drive me nuts.

It could be the holiday blues, which I suffer from. It could be that last year at this time I was pregnant. Poor little #2, we confirmed the pregnancy the same day we started losing it. Barely had any time to know that baby existed. m/c #1 was such a big deal, and we saw the heartbeat on baby #3, so it was huge when we lost that one. #2 got lost in the shuffle. And I feel bad that that one somehow seems to count less. Although 2 is the reason doctors started taking us more seriously.

Anyhow. It's part of my ongoing effort to NOT let these losses ruin my holidays, but that's easier said than done.

And I was kind of waiting to get more reaction about your hysterectomy, Mich. It's part of your body, part of _you_ that they are taking out. And really losing fertility permanently....that's big. It is disturbing on all kinds of different levels.

Babies have been surrounding me lately. Well not actually. But peripheral people, giving birth, having an abortion, getting pregnant. Want them to all go away. Sometimes it's easier to handle this. Not now. So I kinda understand about your cousin's baby. Ouch. Bad timing.

We were both due in January, weren't we? I was due on my MIL's birthday with #3. Maybe it will get easier after January is over.

Blech. I wish this wasn't on our minds. And I have to continue getting ready for the holiday, but all I want to do is sit here and commiserate.

I understand the resentment toward your DH. I have issues about all that my body has to go through, and my DH's willingness for me to go through it. You have to go through it by default. Yep, I do understand.

Hopefully unloading some helped you. I'm hoping it will help me.

Tan, where is your head? Are you still sleeping all the time?

We need to get things together for the jewelry....I'll get some components ordered, maybe this weekend. I've been getting some ideas.

Take care, friends.









K


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## Mammax4

Happy Thanksgiving Keri!

Purple tablecloth day!! How are you decorating your table? candles? real cloth napkins? probably not much more room than that, there will be too much food! What is on the menu for dinner tonight? or are you cooking on the weekend? How does it work when you have a holiday on Thursday? Do you get Friday off too?

My cousin emailed me back saying that his wife really wanted a girl, they now have 3 boys, and he figured number 4 would be in the future. I had a hard time not saying something crappy about that. I was really tempted. There have been a few people in my life that have had those issues. I don't get it, but then I love that I have 3 boys. (grew up with only sisters in the house, sharing bathroom, fighting etc...testosterone seems like a good change







) We need to be thankful for the blessings in our lives, I can't get my head around being disappointed about one kind and not the other.

Can you tell me which site you are ordering from/looking at. Perhaps I could have some sent to your place rather than getting them sent here and then sending them to you. Let me know.

I guess I am not as okay with the hysterectomy as I thought. Or maybe I am and I need to have these emotions/thoughts to really be in a good place when it is done. I would love to birth another baby and yet I am delivering my ability to do that instead. (symbolically speaking or is that literally?) I hope that I will come out the other side with a better head space. One day at a time....breath in, breath out. I don't know if this is worse because of the recent loss or if it would be like this anyway. It is overwhelming sometimes. Sometimes I think if only.... The trouble with 'if only' is it is another way of 'what if'...you can't live your life that way. Waiting for what?? Life to be different than it is. If you get stuck in that mode, you can't enjoy what you have.

Tan, I am worried about you. You haven't posted in a few days. Are you alright? I hope you are reading the messages, even if you can't bring yourself to post. I am thinking about you.















Come back when you feel ready. We are waiting for you, no matter where or when, or what place/space your head/being/heart are in.

Micheline







:


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## Tan II

Hi K & M

Thank you for the hugs and support.

I am here ! I have been reading the posts, every morning ! It's one of the first things I do.
I have been feeling quiet, but ok (in a sad way). Not too much in a "chatty" way.

Mish, a hysterectomy is a big thing. It's not like having your wisdom teeth out (or so I would imagine).
I'm sure the emotional implications are greater than the physical. It's part of being a woman, part of who u r.
If there is no choice whether to have it or not, it might make it easier for you to make peace.

I feel bad saying that. Who am I to tell you how to feel. It is so ok for you to feel any way you want. I suppose I just want to offer you support and help you see both sides of the coin. Help you accept whatever choice you make. Both options make sense, and have their pros and cons.

You are right about "what ifs". You can't stay stuck in that mode. You will have to evetually make a decision, make peace with it, and move forward.

I hope you are feeling better about it.

Keri, I hope u r feeling ok too.

I think we should sit around the computer with a glass of wine !!

We are a bunch of wounded hearts.

How is the cooking going ? I'm sure it'll be loads of fun. Happy Thanksgiving. Is there anything that you are meant to do that is customary ?

I'm not so tired. I've been trying to get into bed earlier. Hasn't helped though, because I'm reading an amazing thriller. I can't put it down. So I get into bed at a decent hour, but then I read for ages !!
I'll catch up sleep one day !

I'll go to a bead store over the weekend. How big should the beads be ?

DH's parents have just come back from a long trip. I'm sure they'll ask us to come around on sunday for tea. I REALLY don't feel like seeing anyone. Especially on sunday. Not because I'm going to mope. But, they'll know (all the fam will be there) what the significance of the day is.
They'll probe, and ask questions that are none of their business. Like I'm really going to tell them how I'm feeling because they ask me once a year. Basically, they'll get into my space uninvited. NO, no, no.
I just want to be left alone.

If they do invite us, dh can go with the boys and I'll stay at home and chill in my own way without having anyone intrude in my space.

Going to tidy the house. Why do I feel like I do that all the time?

Chat later
Tan


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## Tan II

Ok, I'm here again.

I just needed to share.

Having a bad moment. Chest is tight. Feeling emotional pain.

Breathe, breathe .....

I put on a cd I used to listen to often while driving to the hospital to see Gabriel. (It was a 40-45 minute drive, so I had lots of time !). It's a Kenny G cd. I listened with mixed feelings. It brings me confort and relaxes me, but it also makes me think of driving to the hospital, and that time.

I really don't feel like seeing my in-law family (3 SIL, and MIL).
I think they are false, and would feel it's their priviledge to ask personal questions because of our relationship.
I'm seeing most of them tonight for dinner. Sunday is definately out.
They irritate me so much.

My cd is nearly finished. It's been blaring through the kitchen while I've been cleaning.
Good therapy. Gave me something to do, while I had all these thoughts churning through my head.

Chest isn't so tight anymore. I just feel a sadness. Sore, sore, sore.

Breathe .....

Got to go to the supermarket before school pick-up.

Right, Jamie's ready, shoes on, handbag and happy face - we're off !

(see, I still have a sense of humour !)

Thanks for listening.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

I'm glad you've been reading, Tan, even when you haven't been posting. I've been worried about you too. And kinda lonely!

Cleaning is therapy, isn't it? Putting SOMETHING in order, even when so many things are out of our control.

Keep breathing. Even though you are reliving the saddest part of your life, your sweet baby isn't. Gabriel flies free, full of peace. No trappings of this cruel and beautiful earth, just peace. Leaving this life may have been the best moment of that poor baby's entire time here, sweet relief.

I really do believe that. Death scares those of us left behind, hurts us, but it must be so peaceful to actually exit this life. It's not exactly a walk in the park. I mean, look at us, the bunch of wounded hearts, the raging lunatics. It's hard to be here, to be us. People must be so exhausted at the end of a long life.

I'm so sorry you are hurting this much. I wish I could make it go away, for all of us. But especially for you.

And Mich,







.

I would think that the hysterectomy would be capitally worse because of the loss of baby #4. You wanted that baby. Now you don't have that baby, and you won't birth any others, and you will be missing a part of your body. That absolutely sucks. You are completely justified in feeling all sorts of things.

And it's actually good that you are feeling these things now. It's better to process it now, rather than stuffing all the emotions down and dealing with them months from now. Work on it now, and maybe it will be easier when you have the hysterectomy done.

Tan, I hope your inlaw dinner went okay. I really hope, if they said anything to you about Gabriel, that you let them know it isn't annual pain you feel, it's a permanent loss, something you deal with every day.

I should have taken a picture of the table and sent it to you both. It was very pretty, the purple paisley tablecloth with my Grandma's china (tiny pink flowers, in a garland around the edge, with a gold band). A footed dish with pumpkins and gourds and bittersweet was the centerpiece, with a leaf garland running down the center of the table. I had a bronze colored candle burning on the buffet, which also had a bronze runner and leaves. Gold cloth napkins. I'm a girly girl, I like pretty tables!

The turkey was fabulous. Everything was, actually. The traditions are turkey, dressing, cranberry sauce and pumpkin pie, holding hands and saying grace. We did it all. It was just 6 of us, which was very nice after the mayhem of 17 last year. And my Dad said the sour cream and raisin pie was almost like his Mom's! Aha! Near victory on my continuing quest to replicate a lost recipe.

So the menu included sausage & cranberry dressing, garlic/horseradish mashed potatoes, giblet gravy, our own homegrown rutabagas mashed, vanilla glazed sweet potatoes, orange jello salad, and biscuits. Oh, yeah. Wine and powerful peppermint schnapps (we call Scott's parents and toast them with it). Yes, I still have wine in front of me, Tan!

Long, long, long post. I'll stop now. Tomorrow is a holiday for most people, but I'm going in to work for a couple of hours. My parents are going out of town tomorrow, so I'll just make sure there are no dire emergencies....

Keep breathing, friends. Long, deep breaths, until you feel your heart calm down...

You are in my thoughts an awful lot.

K


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

Dinner sounds yum. Your table sounds beautiful. I have to ask, but what are rutabagas ? I've never heard of it before.

I hope work wasn't too and, and that you managed to have a bit of a holiday today.

I think I have forgotten to mention that sunday is my sister's birthday too.

I better go and get ready. We're leaving for dinner soon. I'm starving. Can't wait for my glass of red tonight









Have a great weekend. Any special plans ? We've got a busy one again. Sat morning going for breakfast. Sat night out for dinner with friends. We're getting a babysitter and going out. OMG !!!!!!!!! So exciting









I'll catch up with you over the weekend.
Tan


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## Mammax4

Therapy session at my house. I can't believe it, I have a whole bunch of therapists that will be at my house. Do you want to come? I'll tell you whose going to be here:
Dr. I.M. Dusty
Dr. Washa Mepleaz
And a lay counsellor - Ndz Avakume

What do you think? Could we hold this session before next weekend?

Tan, don't feel bad for saying that. It *is* a choice, not a have to. I need to make my being (head, heart, soul) okay with this. I need to make sure it is the right thing for me, long term. Once done, there is no going back. I need to get past the 'if only' and move on. (if only it was that easy!)

I have joined a hysterectomy forum. I don't know how much I will hang out there. It is good as a resource, but I don't really feel comfortable there. Perhaps that is my own stuff in my head.

Keri, I want to come for dinner at your house!! Food sounds yummy, table sounds beautiful. Now, how are you doing. You have been busy giving us hugs and helping us, but what about you?? Are you being 'animated' (I picture your big hugs and imagine the greeting..putting on too much *up* or really feeling it?) and redirecting because you need a distraction?














for you too. (I too am a hugger and the faces are a digital expression of my reality)

Tan...Your sister's b-day is Nov.26?







I am sorry there are such extremes on one day for you.







Your Kenny G, do you find you listen to it when you are down? Is it a way to bring yourself up? (allowing you/pushing you to let your sad out and then gradually come back up for air) Did you manage with the IL's okay? I'm sorry they feel a sense of entitlement that exceeds their boundaries. That would make being with them rather difficult. Maybe they don't know any better and are trying to help? or is that giving them too much credit?

Tan, have fun out with DH and friends for dinner. A sitter...good for you! And you Keri...basement cleaning is not a form of care. (well, maybe house care--but house care doesn't count!) Me...well...I am painting, tidying and baking. I have a whole bunch of things to bake this week. I am usually way ahead of this by now, but have been doing house stuff (while DH sits on his a**














instead.

Keri- Let me know the bead sites you were looking at so I can check out what size stones etc..

Off to paint for a bit now. See you later.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hello, friends and fellow lunatics!

Tan, a rutabaga is similar to a turnip, only bigger and oranger. We grew our own this year---very tasty, mashed like potatoes, but very tough. Not to eat, but to cook and mash....a rutabaga is a strange thing to eat. It's DH's family thing.

Okay, enough with the root vegetable. Tan, is that the happy face? Did you just put on the happy face with us?

It's okay if you are actually okay. But if you are being breezy with us to hide what you are really feeling......you don't have to do that around Mich and me. This is the release valve, let it out.

Mich, I'm glad you joined the hysterectomy forum. Even if you don't settle in there, you can get a lot of insight and commiserate with people who are feeling the some of the same things. Feel free to lay it all out here, too. You know we care and will listen and learn.

Thanks for asking how I am. It's up and down. Some bitterness has been welling up, so I need to work on that. I'm finding that charting the whole cycle is interesting....and I do have signs of a progesterone deficiency (or it could be something worse, but I'm not going there until I talk with a dr.) That makes me REALLY REALLY REALLY mad, to think this is an ongoing problem that a specialist did not even look for, that something so simple to correct could have prevented us from being where we now are....

And I've got the "what ifs" also. Our lives would so different if....

So that's how I am. Kind of scary. And yes, I've been holding back tears. Definitely lunatic. Justifiably lunatic, I deserve this label, I've earned it.

But the Thanksgiving dinner was really good, and I'm sure being very busy helped to suppress all the other crap that is in my head.

Mich, your therapists are hilarious! That's the upside, our house is quite clean at this point. I did indulgently lay around on the couch with a blanket and 2 cats, watching a football game yesterday....

This is what I say to DH: "I need your help. I cannot do everything that needs to be done." That way it's not nagging, it's just a fact. Get off thy butt and assist in taking care of OUR house. Every man is different, good luck with yours.

OH, my brother was talking about his caffeine thing. He had bad guts for YEARS...he spent an awful lot of time in the bathroom. I don't know details. But he found out caffeine was the culprit. He used to drink 6-8 colas a day, more on weekends (rum and coke). He gradually cut it out, and it made an enormous difference. Now if he has a single coke, it has him doubled over in the bathroom.....something else for your DH to look at.

Beads--I was looking at the jewelry on labelledame.com. It's beautiful, but I haven't been able to bring myself to order any yet...the significance in the stones she uses has really caught my interest. I will order something from her, someday. But I think I will order beads from beadshop.com. They have a really good selection. I found a couple of different places online that sell the blue & pink ribbon, but didn't write them down...the prettiest one was $13. Some less pretty ones were less money, of course.

Gotta run, I have to feed my parents' cats. They are out of town on short notice, and couldn't board the cats because of the holiday....so I am driving an hour round trip twice a day to feed them. On my long holiday weekend. See some of that bitterness I was talking about?

Thinking of you both,

Keri


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## Mammax4

Tan, my friend...

I can't bring myself to use the candles, as they don't seem enough. Please know I am thinking of you and your family today.
















Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Tan...thinking of you and Gabriel today.









Ah woe is me! Winter is come and gone,
But grief returns with the revolving year.
--Percy Bysshe Shelley

Shelley got it, didn't he?

I hope that peace will start to settle back over you soon. I'll be here to listen no matter what.

Keri


----------



## Tan II

Hi Mish and Keri

Thank you for your hugs, love and support.

Sigh of relief, yesterday has come and gone.
As I expected, the actual day wasn't so bad. It seems the lead up to it is worse.
When I woke up, I couldn't help remember what I had done on that day 3 years ago. I can pretty much remember it all.
It's mind boggling. I still find it hard to believe what we went through.

Part of me almost feels like it wasn't real. It was too horrible to happen to me.

DH & I went to the cemetary. It was so peaceful there. It sounds funny, but I always find it peaceful and relaxing there.
I stood looking at his little grave, and his tombstone, finding it hard to believe. I almost wanted to say "did this really happen?".

THis year was definately easier than last year. We were obviously sad, but we were able to get on with our day too.
We were with Tayga and Jamie. After the cemetary we went home to fetch the boys (I think Tayga is still too young to come to the cemetary), and we went out together.
Sad in our hearts, but together and doing everyday stuff.

I'm so bugged, although I shouldn't be - I should be used to it ! Out of 3 SIL's and a MIL, only 1 SIL called us in the morning to acknowledge the day.

Only at the end of the day did my other 2 SIL's call, and later that night did my MIL call. All of them only called becasue I'm almost certain my sil who called in the morning, reminded them.
That really pisses me off. I know there isn't anything anyone can really say. I just want the day acknowledged. ESPECIALLY from family. Family who were with us at the hospital before, and after he died.

My MIL didn't even ask to speak to me, she spoke to dh. I'm happy about that, she bugs me. It's not the point.

With the time difference between here and south africa, I spoke to my sister in the afternoon.
It's a hard one, because I want to wish her a happy birthday, and she wants to make sure I'm ok.

Oh, and isn't it sad that we had to get a babysitter to stay with the kids while we went to the cemetary. I refused to ask dh's family, becasue I did not want to remind them of the day if they couldn't rmembe themselves.
Like dh said, if they have to be reminded, then how sincere can their words be?









Tayga was so sweet. He gave us a small toys of his to put there for Gabriel.

Part of me feels a bit scared that I felt so ok yesterday. I suppose scared because I don't want to not feel sad about Gabriel. On the other hand, I suppose that's life, and that's healing and moving forward.

So here I am. The other side of another year. I made it.

Thank you again for being there and the love and support. I don't know where I'd be now without you both.

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan--

I'm glad it's tomorrow where you are....I thought of that a couple of hours ago, that a new day was already dawning for you.

It's good that it was easier on both you and your DH than last year...and I hope it continues to get easier. Don't be scared that you were okay....that's how it should be.

I've seen this representation of grief, where the loss takes up the whole of your life for a while. The grief doesn't get smaller, but your life becomes larger. That's moving on. You don't forget, the pain doesn't entirely go away. But as your life expands beyond the grief, it does get easier to handle.

Sorry your inlaws are still driving you batty. Perhaps it's time to lower your expectations. Don't mean to lecture, but I just got that lecture from my DH today in regard to my brother. Don't expect what you know you won't get. I know, they are adults, they should know better. That's what I think about my brother too. But I'm going to try to reduce my expectations of him.

I always did want a sister. Grrr.

It was nice of you to call your sister on her birthday. I imagine that must have been easier than it has been in the past, also.

I like cemeteries. I like to go to them alone, so I can pat headstones and chat a bit with my loved ones lost, or ancestors I wish I had known. So I don't find it at all funny that you find the cemetery to be peaceful.

Tayga rocks. You have the greatest kid!

Oh, and Tan--you're welcome.







That's what friends are for.

Talk to you later,

Keri


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## Mammax4

I thought I should update quickly...

I haven't posted because we have been without power. We have had an unexpected snow fall and are knee deep in the wonderous weather nature has brought us. (I LOVE snow!!!) We don't get snow here often, so are ill prepared to deal with it, few snow plows, bad drivers, etc. The kids were home from school yesterday (it was closed) and they will be home today. The school is open, but the school buses are running an hour later than normal and I don't think they should be running at all. The roads are not good, the weather is expected to be about -14 with the wind chill. They can stay home thanks!

Tan, I am sorry about your inlaws. I understand wanting more from people. There are times when it would be nice to receive the acknowledgment/treatment/consideration that we would extend to others. When that doesn't happen, especially from family, that is difficult. And then there are times when someone we expect less from makes a gesture that is larger than life. Tayga, you are an amazing boy!

Keri, you have such a way with words. You have cyber sisters! We don't take all the bathroom time. (I always wanted an older brother.)

I will be baking today...date balls, shortbread, raspberry fudge balls, butter tarts... want to come for tea/coffee and goodies?

Have a good day. I will talk to you later ~~ as long as we have power that is.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hey, Micheline!

I start to wonder about you two when you don't post for a couple of days...

Congrats on the snow! It is the powdery, floaty kind, or the heavy, wet, snowman-making kind? I'm ready for snow to cover up all the brown grass.

But it's warm here today (almost short-sleeve warm). Tonight Canada is going to splatter us with a cold front (40 degree drop in temp) so I'm gonna be watching out for tornadoes...in November! Crazy.

I hope your power stays on. We have a hand crank radio and flashlight, a couple of oil lamps, gas stove and water heater...as long as it's not too cold, we can go awhile without power. I learned to play pinochle with my parents by kerosene lantern, when the power was out for several days...I was maybe 7. Good memories.

Mmmm. I would love to come to your house for tea and cookies, they all sound wonderful! You are so industrious! Oh, that would be fun...

I think I'm going to have to do some bead research in person, to figure out sizes. We don't have a dedicated bead shop, but a couple of hobby stores and one of the hippie head shops all have beads. I'm leaning towards moonstone, the stone of balance and harmony. Since I preach balance all the time, it seems fitting.

Thanks for being my cyber sisters! (I'd loan you my brother, Mich, but you already have a BIL living with you.)

Keri


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## Mammax4

Keri--

It is both... we have the heavy kind at the bottom and the fluffy kind on top. It is definately good snowman snow.

I am sorry we are sending you such a cold drop in temp. We are way colder than normal for us. It is a rare time that we see 0, let alone -0 temps. We keep talking about getting a crank radio, or something like that. We have battery powered ones, a camp stove (white gas) bbq, water and two fireplaces to heat the house. We do alright in this kind of situation. My sister lives in "Tornado Row", so I know about the watch for that. Not such a fun thing to have to do.

You can come here and we could go bead shopping together! Let me know what size you are looking at, so I can match. Moonstone sounds right on the money.

Are you home today? you are posting when you should be at work. are you sneaking while at work??

I know it doesn't feel right when the last posting is your own. It's kind of lonely when that happens. How have you been in the last few days? How is the charting coming? Has DH made an effort to stop smoking? (sorry to stir that potential pot) When do you go back to the clinic? So many ???'s.

I will check for your answers later. I have to get Harmony in the house.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hi!









Yes, the cat was away so the mouse was surfing MDC! It was a verrry quiet day at work.

Mich, you don't have to apologize for Canada blasting us! The cold front is here, by the way. It's always Canada and Mexico fighting to dominate our weather. It's nice when they get along, and give us spring and autumn.

So with the beads, are we all contributing different things to the jewelry? When I buy beads, I'm buying for all the pieces, yes? Tan, do you just want the bracelet, or do you want a necklace too? How many colors, what do you see in your minds' eyes?

If it would help, I can take a photo of the bracelets my MIL has made, to let you see some different configurations ande different components. It would be so much easier if we could all go shopping together!

Charting is coming along, thanks for asking. We have an appointment with our 'trainer' and interpretor of the chart on Thursday. It will be interesting to see what she says about my screwed up body. Then I need to call a new Dr. to see about doing some luteal phase hormonal testing, to verify the charting. I think all of this has something to do with my intense crankiness.

DH quit smoking 2 days ago, and is suffering. He is using a nicotine patch, but that doesn't quite cut it. He has been smoking for over 2 decades, so quitting is huge. I haven't said a single word to him about quitting since I delivered the ultimatum. I keep waiting for the award ceremony, I'm so skilled at not nagging...and where is my 'didn't kill anyone' award?

I'm still a lunatic. This charting...and my parents have been out of town, so I've been feeding their cats twice a day (an hour of drive time each meal, on the weekends. ick) and cleaning their house. It has been neglected, since Mom can't sweep or vacuum or stand much, and Dad apparently doesn't see dirt. So it has been good 'dawning of reality' therapy for me. And the reality is frustrating the living hell out of me. Too much on my plate. My brain needs a vacation.

Whine whine whine. I'll try to get over myself soon.

So how is your head, Mich? With all the boys around today, you probably didn't have time to think.

Tan? Your head?

Meditation:
The light died in the low clouds. Falling snow drank in the dusk. Shrouded in silence, the branches wrapped me in their peace. When the boundaries were erased, once again the wonder: that _I_ exist. --Dag Hammerskjold

Sweet dreams, Mich, and good morning, Tan!

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi K & M









Snow. BBBBRRRRRRRRR !! Lucky for me it doesn't snow here. I hate winter and cold weather ! It snows up in the mountains, but not in the city.

I'd love to go bead shopping together. It'll be such fun. We can stop off for a coffee too !

Mish, how's the baking going ? Yum !

Keri well done for your dh having quit smoking. How's he coping ? Tell him to have hard candies to suck on when he feels like having a smoke.

You sound like you have been hectic. I don't suppose you slipped in some "me" time ? Ha ha !

My head is ...... quiet. My heart is sore.

I am also so tired. My own fault. I go to bed so late (around midnight) and am up early (around 5.30am). Jamie has taken to waking early for breakfast. I know I should get into bed early. Once I have finished for the night (making school lunch, tidying kitchen, etc etc etc) I just want some time out and relax.

Anyway, this is a quick hello ! Got lots to still do and it's 9.30pm, and I still want to chill out before bed time !

I hope the snow isn't too bad, and that both of u r doing ok.

Tan


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## Mammax4

: It's snowing again!!!







:

We may get another 10cm today. I love it!! Sorry to go on Tan...better me than you!







If I don't post for a bit again don't give up on me...I may have lost power again. I will be moving the computer soon too, that will be another reason for being offline.

I made shortbread dough last night, I can bake it tonight. I made almond bark and will be making the date balls tonight. I have a list (actually two-one for food one for house stuff) that is paring down as we speak.

Keri, good for DH! And without nagging no less. Does it help to know he is doing this? (him taking some steps rather than watching you walk all the time) Aside from outside stresses, are you okay? How is YOur head?

I actually love it when my kids are home. (disclaimer- the days when they fight, I would love for them to be in school) I wouldn't home school, I don't think that would work for us, but when they have holidays and go back to school, I sure miss them. I am one of those weird ones that isn't wishing them back to school mid-way through summer break. I dictated a no tv or video game day yesterday (yep, I am a meanie) and the kids were great. They pulled out the lego and some other stuff and had a great time. They like to do stuff like that with Will, it's neat to watch them all play together like that.

Tan, I am with you in the burning the candles at both ends. Up too late and up too early. It is hard to do all that you have to do and have a moment where you can sit and still get to bed at a decent time. One day my friend, we will get a handle on that. I am sorry your heart is sore. I hope that sharing here relieves some of that.

Must go and bake now. Saturday is fast approaching...although with all this snow, I don't know how many people will show up!

Micheline


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## avivaelona

Hi, I happened to check into this thread because it will be three years coming up for me in February. I'm sorry for your losses. I don't want to intrude on what's obviously a thread where everyone has gotten to know one another, especially when I know I won't be able to check in often but I wanted to ask if it was ok with Lolalapcat if I shared this quote with a friend whose angels 3rd birthday was just this past week as well.

Quote:

I've seen this representation of grief, where the loss takes up the whole of your life for a while. The grief doesn't get smaller, but your life becomes larger. That's moving on. You don't forget, the pain doesn't entirely go away. But as your life expands beyond the grief, it does get easier to handle.
I'll check back tomorrow to see if its ok.


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## Mammax4

avivaelona, I am sorry for your loss.

Please don't feel like you are intruding. We are all here to support each other during the ups and downs of our loss experiences. This thread is an example of some of those times. We felt it was important to continue here because we are working through our grief here and we hope that it may be of some help to others to see this. I think we are all kind of surprised that no one has joined in, perhaps they are thinking the same thing you are. (and I was too...way back many pages ago)

To know that you are not alone is so important, to know that you are understood is even more so. To be free to speak the truth about the state of your heart and mind is what helps release some of the insanity that goes on in your head. For me, this 'conversation', this connection has made such a difference in how I deal with my loss.

So, please feel free to join in anytime. It does appear that we can go on for a while!

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hello friends!

Avivaelona, there is no intrusion here!







I always wonder who is watching this thread, hoping they find something here to ease their own pain.

Please share anything you like with your friend, no need to ask first. That representation of grief was on a website (sorry, don't remember which one) and it was drawn out. Baby feet in a circle, surrounded by another circle. It was three different illustrations, each with the outside circle bigger, to represent life beyond the grief, but still including it. The illustration is more powerful than my description...

Check in anytime, you are welcome here.

Tan--I am sorry your heart is sore. I guess it is to be expected. Maybe bead shopping and coffee would help, really wish we could. So we'll just spend time together here. Is there anything we can do, anything that would help?

DH's nonsmoking is realllly hard on him. I love my inlaws, but darn them anyway! Why didn't they stop this when he was still a teenager at home?!?!! Hindsight, I know, not useful. Yes, I do take some satisfaction in him having to do SOMETHING other than take a multivitamin! But I don't like to see him quietly tortured. Oh, but I have been cut open, injected, prodded, probed, tortured in some verrrry painful ways....can you see that, my pity for him slipping away?

Nervous about meeting with the chart trainer person. Most of the time I am impressed with my body, it is healthy and serves me well. It is disturbing to find something so wrong with it (besides the thyroid, which is mostly a non issue). It should make me hopeful, that the imbalance may be correctable...
That is not where my head is, though. I'll try to put it there. Happy thoughts, happy thoughts.

I was reading some stuff, and watching some video on the Law of Attraction. Are either of you familiar with it? It's intriguing. That your thoughts have frequencies, and the universe responds in kind. Like attracts like. That could be a problem, I tend to dwell on negative stuff. Happy thoughts, happy thoughts.

Mich, good for you for declaring a 'no tech' day! Obviously, I like some technology, but it's good for kids to interact and be creative. Their best memories should NOT be 'sitting in front of the tv'. (I know they won't be, with your kids). DH and I are trying to cut back on tv, for our own good, and for our future kidlets.

Of course, your boys are going to remember their Mom baking cookies! Tan, your kids too, you bake a lot. I remember my Mom baking bread, which she only did once or twice! And snickerdoodles at Christmas.

Marriage care: Saturday I picked DH up at the tire place (he was having the truck worked on) and we drove country roads for 20 miles or so, taking the back way to my parents' house. It was so pretty! Much hillier terrain than I expected...all the highways are built in flat places, it's good to get off of them. Then we went to lunch, did some shopping. It was a day spent together.

Self care: Hahahahahaha! No time for that. I did refuse to go to dinner with DH's hunting buddies and their cliquey wives. I was not in the mood, so I stayed home and was productive. That was very self indulgent.

GOAL: Get more sleep, you guys! I went to bed earlier last night...not much, but it's a start. Should we try for an extra hour? This is important, for moods and energy. We have to do it.

Mich, how's the hyster sister forum? Is anything scheduled on that? Talk, woman!

Okay, it's off to work. Ick. Wait, happy thoughts! Wish me luck on this!

Still a raging lunatic,

Keri


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## Mammax4

Morning!

Let's see...

Keri, I get the nervousness, But... it will provide you with a path right? Proactive not reactive. Breath in ... breath out... It is okay to be afraid that they may give the thumbs up to try again. That you would be feeling hesitant/scared/nervouse/hopeful/cautiously optimistic... is totally understandable. We will be by your side as you go through this, holding your cyber hand as we go.

I can't explain, but I am totally okay to walk that experience with you. I will be holding my breath with you as you go along. We can all help you exhale a little bit on the way.

My sister had volunteered to come out and stay with me for a while when I have my surgery. I talked to her a few days ago, she is going to start fertility treatment stuff next month. So, I am not going to have her come here. She will either be pregnant or in the process again of trying to get pregnant. Either way, not good for either of us. I LOve her very much, but it will be a very difficult journey for me to be a part of. She knows that and was telling me, but not telling me what was coming up. I told her not to censor herself with me, that it was okay, I would be okay. I don't know how true that is, but I feel like it is more important that I be available to her. The reality is she will likely have a baby (or two) and I can't stop being part of her life because that makes me sad. It doesn't make me sad for her, but for me. There is more to it than that, but it is not my place to stand in judgement of how many children any one has. I understand the desire for more (could you guess that?) but the ability financially/physically is a very important consideration too.

like attracts like attracts like it seems.

I am not a real big fan of video games. The boys know that and ask their questions accordingly. (Dad gets the video games ??'s. They want me when it comes to going out somewhere and being there with friends--races/movies...they know I am a softy for souveniers etc) The boys are limited to the amount of gaming they can do. We sure notice a difference when they have played too much or not done enough other stuff. They get on each others nerves and fight alot.

What are snickerdoodles? do you have the recipe? Is it yummy?

Marriage care: None lately. I have been too busy getting the house/food organized for the open house. (while DH







:







: has been sitting on his butt watching tv.) I said I was not going to be able to do it all by myself, he said...we'll have to organize a cleaning party...from the couch, where he remained seated. Thanks for the inspiration to try that again, but for me, it just doesn't work so well.

Self care: I have been baking, which I love to do. It is somewhat different in that I feel a pressure to get it done. I do love the open house tradition we have, so it is working to have it the way I like it.

It stopped snowing, it rained a bit last night and froze. The roads aren't that great. It is supposed to get up to 7 today, so the snow is on the way out. That is probably a good thing. It would be a drag to have gone to all this effort getting ready for Saturday and not have anyone able to come because of bad weather. Well...maybe not. The house would be clean, the goodies made and we wouldn't have anything to do...except relax! What a concept.

The Hyster forum is alright. I have been lurking until last night. Someone posted about the reality of no more kids even though they couldn't have more for health reasons. It is nice to know it is not only me. I don't really feel like I fit in there (yet?) Perhaps as my resignation (no more kids) turns to acceptance, the connection will change. I will see how it goes. If nothing else, it is a great resource for real information, personal experiences.

Have a good day
Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi Lunatics

Sorry I haven't shown my face !! I've been around though.

The past few days have been bad. Tayga has been giving me a hard time, and I am really stressing with it all. I try and try and try. Now I'm tired of trying. It breaks my heart becasue I know he is an amazing child. I can't stand this revolting behaviour. It has such a negative impact on the family.
He is going to see the psychologist on monday. We go from there.

I was so brave on sunday and "I'm ok". Now I'm falling apart. I knew I would be like that. Knowing I'd have eyes on me on sunday, people wanting to see how I am - I put on a brave face. Now that I don't have to, I am allowing myself to feel, and I feel crap.

*Big sigh* I know in a few days I'll be ok. And that Tayga will be ok too. I suppose it's all reaching crisis point.

I had to phone the psychologist for him to make an appointment and talk about him, and I landed up crying ! I just want him to be happy again.

Mish I agree with you about too much video games. We also try and limit Tayga. Between the computer, tv and playstation - it gets a bit much. It drives me mad when all he does it move from one to the other.
I keep telling him - go read, go draw, play in the garden. The problem is, is that Jaime is too little to do stuff with him. So if he doesn't have a friend over, or I'm busy, then he's lonely doing all that on his own.
He often says he wishes he had a big brother. Poor kid.
Too much definately brings on wild, crazy behaviour.

BTW, I was told a few days ago, that fish oil is brilliant for kids. Especially from a behaviour point of view. They even make fish oil for kids now, with a nice flavour. Guess what I went out and bought !!

Hows the baking going ? I love baking too. I also find it relaxing. It's a great creative outlet. One of many !

Keri, I hope u r still thinking happy thoughts. We are here for you every step of the way.







I'm sending you some happy thoughts !

You are right, I should be going to bed earlier. I'll try. Ye right !!

Avivaelona, welcome. I'm sorry for your loss too. Please pop in when ever you're around. It helps to share. I have just had our 3 year anniversary. 3 years. Where does the time go ? In the beginning you think you'll never get through it. You'll never smile, never be happy, never know life without any emotion being paired with pain. But 3 years down the line, I know you do. The pain lessens, and you can laugh, smile, and be happy.

Having the support of wonderful friends, even if they are cyber friends, makes the biggest difference. I know Keri and Micheline have made a difference in my life. Thanks guys









I'm going to de-stress and relax while Jamie has his morning sleep.

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi, friends!










Sometimes it seems so calm here, sometimes (like now) there is so much going on.

Mich, I am glad you have found someone who feels the same way you do about not being able to have more kids. That's such a big thing, and it must help to hear someone else voice your thoughts.

Speaking of voicing thoughts....your sister/pregnancy issues echo mine with my best friend. I was still bleeding from m/c #1 when she told me she was pregnant. God bless her, she was so cautious with me...I sent her an email a couple of days later, imploring her to NOT shield me, to share anything she normally would. Her pregnancy directly caused me so many tears (I can be an ugly person, this is a raw confession---envy, jealousy, resentment, all things I don't want to feel, don't want to BE).

But the friendship was paramount. The pain was worth preserving our friendship. Where would I be if I lost my babies, and one of the best people in my life?

So it sucks, and it will be hard. You are doing the right thing. Your head is screwed on straight. Come talk to us whenever it's hurting you.

Tan, I'm sorry you are having issues with Tayga. It sounds like he is really strong willed, which is difficult when he is your kid, but can be such a positive trait in an adult.

You probably don't need advice from the non parent, but I'm going there again.







:

I read columns by John Rosemond, I think he's a child psychologist. Or just a logical parent. He has a very pragmatic, matter of fact approach to child rearing that makes a lot of sense to me. When I come up with a kid, I'm going to buy one of his books.

But one of his themes is that parents read too much into their child's misbehavior, and thereby feed the misbehavior. I don't know what's going on with Tayga, and Gabriel's death could certainly be an issue with him, so I'm not trying to discount the situation. But maybe do a search and check out this guy's website, maybe something will stand out for you. He seems to simplify seemingly complicated issues.

I'm sorry you are feeling crap. Unload the crap here. Our shoulders are continentally wide. What is in your head? Or is it in your heart?







:
I am sorry you feel this way, friend.

Speaking of crap, it just occurred to me that Tayga needs another little brother, a little 3 year old brother.







:

It's just wrong. I'm so sad for you. And your family.

My Mom has an acupuncture appointment today. Cross your fingers...I am thinking happy thoughts for her. It is my parent's 43rd anniversary today, btw. I bought them a bottle of fun liquor, Tequila Rose. Romantic, don't you think?

Appointment last night went okay. I could not like this trainer person any more. Maybe she will adopt me.

We will probably wait until spring before ttc. She sees issues with my hormones (saw that one coming) and thinks it would be wise to gather more information, at least a couple months of charting, and consult with the expert. Appointment is Feb 6. He likes a challenge, and she calls us a hard case. Mmmmhmmm. Okay by me. She keeps apologizing, asking if it's okay if we put off ttc for a couple of months. Oh yes. That's fine by me.

Mich, ask your DH to plan the house cleaning party. It's his solution, run with it! When is it going to be, who is invited, what gets accomplished and what makes it a party? It's not a bad idea, actually, if it gets the house clean and is fun. (I'm assuming it will just be your family cleaning).

Snickerdoodles are kinda buttery sugar cookies, with green or red sugar sprinkled on top, or cinnamon. The cinnamon ones are my faves. They are simple, but good. Hmm, I should make some with cinnamon and colored sugar. I'll get Mom's recipe, if you want.

I'm ending the diatribe. Take care, dear people. I'll be thinking of you today...but then, I do that everyday.

Keri


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## Mammax4

Howdy!

I am popping in quickly, so that I can put in my 2cents for the night. I have many dips to start and stuff to cut up for tomorrow.







:

Keri, do you feel that there is too much going on here that you don't want to unload for fear of over filling the plate? Your post today shared some, but I feel like you may be holding back. close or reading too much into it?? Regardless of what we have individually, I know for me, there is room on the plate for all that is dished up/out/on here. If you were holding in, don't. I can feel a big lot of anxiety/stress from you (or at least that is how I am reading it) and I am worried about you. So, how is your head today, right now? How about your heart? Are you REally okay?

"....spread sunshine all over the place, and put on a happy face" *remember...we don't need to do that here.*

Are you okay to wait until spring? Are you doing other proactive stuff between now and then? Are you okay about all this stuff?

Tan, I am sorry you are having a hard time with Tayga. It is hard to know where it all comes from, stages, life experience, pushing boundaries.... I can tell you that we have had our share of challenging moments. Sometimes it feels like all I do is nag. I feel like banging my head on the wall from time to time, but have managed to restrain myself so far. I hope that the appointment on Monday goes well. It may be a good place to learn different coping and communication skills. (because you know that we don't know anything anyway...)

DH didn't host the cleaning party... I made a list on Thursday and put it on the counter and said....







'THis is what we need to do' He said....All of that!?! YEap!! Most of it was done that night and the rest (and more...I made another list







) they did while I was grocery shopping tonight. I have discovered a new motivating technique, it's called don't give an option!

Anyway, I must go and prep some food. It's almost midnight now...I don't think I am going to sleep much tonight. That's okay, I am going to have a lovely relaxing day tomorrow. (followed by a tonne of laundry on Sunday no doubt!)

Have a good sleep, I will check in tomorrow.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hi, lunatic friends.

Mich, good work on 'the list'! Maybe the reason it worked is because it was concrete. Well, it doesn't really matter, it worked! Hooray!

Sometimes I think husbands don't think we need help, we are so good at dealing with so many things. My DH has definitely done better with helping out, since I told him that my life was harder since getting married. His life was easier, he married the laundry and housecleaning fairy...I think it really resonated with him. He helps out, and I am a happier person since my burden isn't so heavy. (I always thank him for what he has done, and don't criticize anything, even if it doesn't quite meet my standards.)

I'm okay, thanks for asking. I honestly could go right to adoption, I'm terrified of getting pregnant again. I'm a shade more optimistic, since the hormone imbalance is correctable. But still scared. So I am okay with putting it off. I need a little more time to get right with this in my head. I think of it as getting ready to have another miscarriage, and have to try to change that. It seems like insanity to sign up for that again...

I've been in a dark mood for a couple of days, and don't know why. It's general. Combination of a lot of things, I guess. I need to let it go, I can't control anything that I worry about.

Tan, the holistic dr/acupuncturist put my Mom on fish oil, etc. yesterday. I've taken fish oil for years, to keep my brain supple! Okay, actually to combat inflammation associated with my thyroiditis. I'm going to make an appointment with the holistic dr, maybe next week I will call.







Yeah, right. I'll try, anyway.

Mich, I hope the open house was a ton of fun!

Tan, I hope things have calmed down a bit for you, and your heart is feeling a bit better...

Off to bathe, make tea, light candles, put on fun music, and work in the basement--more shelves, hooray!

Hmm. The meditation for today, the quote means nothing to me. But the analysis hits close to home, about letting go of the white-knuckle grip on life and trusting that all will be well.

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I hope you are feeling lighter today. That the dark mood has lifted.
There is nothing worse than that feeling. It can be quiet suffocting.

I'm sure you are scared. I don't blame you. I'm not going to tell you not to be. That would be rude and unfair. I will tell you that I am here for you to offer support. PG it all goes your way.

I think all husbands strike it lucky when they get married. They go from their mother to a wife. The fairies follow !!

Mish, I hope u had a fun weekend. Was it what you expected ? I'm sure everyone loved the yummy things u made.

I am feeling better than what I was on friday. I have had some time to get my thoughts in order, had some extra sleep, had some me time to chill out.

Tayga is going to the psychologist on monday morning first thing. I am happy that we are getting this sorted out. My gut tells me that there is nothing wrong. That he is so unhappy at school, so it's coming out in his behaviour.
I have to be certain. So hopefully after a few sessions, we'll have some answers.
It's really stressing me out big time.

Last night dh and Tayga and a friend and his son went into the city to watch some live music. They had such fun. I had a great time too. I had a few hours all to myself to have me time. Which is what I did. Luckily I had been to the scrapbook store that afternoon. So last night I did more of my album. I'm really enjoying doing it.

Today looks like a glorious day. Sunny and warm. I'm not sure what out plans are. I better go and see what's on offer !

Have a great weekend.
Tan


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## Mammax4

Hello my friends.









I am checking in quickly, between the last guests leaving and doing the clean up. It all went well. We had the first people arrive at 1:00pm and there were people here until a teeth brush and pajama ago. I didn't stop putting food out the whole time! It was a great evening, although I didn't get to visit much with the people that were here, it was a nice time. Ha! to BIL and DH for saying I was going crazy with the food I was preparing.

I am 'dog tired'... I don't even think I am going to do the dishes tonight. (and I Never leave the dishes in the sink...I don't like to wake up to that kind of mess)

Keri, I am sorry for the dark mood. Is there anything I/we can do to help? I can understand the fear of getting pregnant again. I understand the desire to go the adoption route right away, it seems safer. You need to do what is right for you.

Tan, I hope all goes well at the psychologist appointment. I know how a teacher can effect a child and their behaviour. I hope the end of his school comes in the blink of an eye, and you will have one less challenge on your plate.

I wish you could have come, it was a nice day today. I will talk to you tomorrow.

Have a good sleep!

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hi, Tan and Mich!

Mich, it sounds like the party was fantastic! That's a lonnng time to have people in the house, you are a trooper. The snow must not have been an issue..do you still have it? Or did it melt in time for your open house? How many people? What all did you make? Kindly give us more detail!

Tan, I hope the Tayga's appointment goes well. When does school end? I'm keeping my fingers crossed for all of you. Sending happy thoughts your way.

Thanks for worrying about me. It's really not that bad. Although there has been one major shift in my life that just occurred to me. Work used to be my escape. Now work is where I go to see my Mom's physical deterioration, and to try to prod my Dad into getting things scheduled and done. Not to mention my brother is between jobs, and is making himself useful at my job. Grrr. Family jobs, bad.

I enjoy my brother in small doses, not everyday. I hate that he is more competent than me, just based on stature. And I know my Dad always wanted his son involved in this business, so I find it very threatening. And it disturbs the balance of my Dad's and my relationship. And then there's the man humor, ugh.

The dark mood has lifted somewhat. It's almost a sense of forboding. Which is actually fairly accurate, I guess. You're right, Tan, it's a bit suffocating. I'm willing it away. It has overstayed its welcome.

DH and I sat on the couch Saturday and watched 2 football games--it's regional championships, we don't usually watch that much. Then yesterday we worked in the basement---I can see much more floor!--and went shopping and out to eat. It was good quality marriage time.

Self care. Why is it when I need the most self care I don't do it? Do you guys do that too? To my credit, my best friends were all busy this weekend, except DH. Ahh, the holidays. We'll see people in January.

And there are a couple of friends I don't call anymore, because I feel like I drag them down. I sense they don't really want me to call. But I miss them, perhaps I'll call.

Ugh. Off to tackle Monday. Wish me luck, send me your superpowers!

Keri, the subdued lunatic







:


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## Mammax4

A fine morning to you!

Boy, do I wish it was still the weekend!! I wasn't ready to get up this morning.

Let's see.... Saturday we had about 40 people come by. This was spread out over the day/night. The snow was still here, although melted somewhat, so we were concerned about parking. They managed to park without any issue, that was good. I made a 7 layer dip, spinach dip, hot salsa dip, veggie and dip platter, crackers, cheese, cheese ball (homemade), pepperoni platter. I cooked _vegetable springrolls, southwest springrolls, potatoe skins, and taquitos._ Those were not home made. I also had a sweets platter with shortbread, scotchcrunchies, buttertarts, dateballs, peanut butter squares and almond bark. As I mentioned earlier, both men in the house thought I was going overboard (I do tend to do that) well, I refilled the platters numerous times and was busy keeping the hot food supplied. I didn't visit anyone much, except the ones that were in the path between the kitchen and the dining room.

Keri, I am sorry that work has turned out to be so much work. Not just your job now, but also family care and motivation. That is not easy. Especially for those of us that are trying to 'fix' things. When they don't listen or take the opportunities for themselves it is very difficult. Just remember, you can not control what they do, or when they do what they do. Their lives are not ours to live. (even if we think we know better than they do) There is a lot of 'if only' that you can get caught up in there, the trouble is then you miss out on some of the things that are happening that you could be sharing in.

I will step off my soap box now. If I have offended, please know that is not my intent.

I am sorry that you have to see your Mom changing so much, so fast and every day. But the flip side of that is, you will be more aware of the changes and will have the opportunity for real meaningful stuff along the way. I can't imagine how it would feel to be in your shoes right now. I am thinking of you and I hope that things will level off soon.

Tan, how did the appointment go? Was it a basic how do you do and we'll work on stuff next time?

Internet service is here, must go incase I get disconnected.

ttyl
Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi Ya !

Tayga's appointment went well, so I've been told ! I wasn't in with him. The psychologist is the one he went to after Gabriel died. So he knows her and has a relationship with her. He adores her, which helps. Her and I didn't talk after the session, she didn't want to talk in front of him. She emailed me to say that it went well, and that he co operated and that he was polite and friendly and that we'd get him back on track in no time.
It was a relief to hear that. Hopefully there are no major issues. He goes again on thursday. Twice again next week. Then dh and I meet with her.

My gut feel is that he is so unhappy at school that it's affecting him. I hope I'm right, and there are no problems.

Wow Mish, u really were a busy bee. It sounds like u did really well with all the food you made. When did u find the time ? U must be so bored now !

Keri, I hope life is balancing out and that u r feeling ok.
It is scary to watch your Mom get worse. IT throws your world. They are meant to be strong and healthy forever.

Tayga has just woken up and is calling for me. It's still early for him to be awake (I've been up since 5.30am - Jamie !). I'm going to go and have a cuddle with him.

Chat later
Tan


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## Mammax4

Thought I would get back here, as I was interrupted last time. Not that I had much more to say, but here I am ..... chat, chat, chat!

Tan, I am glad to hear that Tayga's appointment went well. It is nice to have someone you are familiar with. Nice to hear she expects a quick return to Tayga's behaviours. Sometimes, being the safe place for our kids to melt down/destress isn't an easy place to be.

We had the services upstairs hooked up today, so I will be moving the computer tonight. That is if I am not sleeping!

I am not sure if it is a matter of staying up too late, or if it is the end of all things keeping me busy for the past few months, but I am T-I-R-E-D! I feel a bit like a balloon that has had the air let out. limp, flat and blah. You can hold yourself so tightly, that you don't have the chance to really relax. I am thinking I have been doing that...with the house, with the miscarriage (now there is no more excuse to avoid). There is alot going on here, for all of us. I think I have a bit of depression going on too, but don't want to take meds for it. Any natural ideas? We have set up the treadmill now, so I will be able to use it which may help with energy.

heavy sigh...

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hey there, MDC addict checking in!

Tan, I am so pleased that Tayga's first appt went so well. It must be a relief to do something, anything in a positive direction. You sound much more positive, so it's pretty obvious that you are happy with the initial meeting.

Mich, never worry about offending me. I have been learning that when I bristle at something, it is because a nerve has been hit, and it's an opportunity to learn why. Most of the time, I change my way of thinking, just a bit. You were just stating the truth, and as a control freak I need to be reminded of that!

Depressed? No, none of us could possibly be depressed. Burying our feelings under a million tasks? Who would do that?

Yeah, I trimmed the two big hedges in front of our house while having the first m/c, worked through the second one (and went to a funeral) and worked, worked, worked in the garden after the 3rd, once the anesthesia hangover wore off. Then traveled for 2 weeks. It is just the last few weeks that I have started to relax and spend some quiet time on my own. We all do it, don't we? Stay too busy to think?

Depression. Exercise, best thing you can do. This time of year, sunlight is good. Get enough sleep. Talk (journal, or come here, it counts). A lot of evidence points to the efficacy of St. John's wort. My natural health care book suggests supplementing the B vitamins including 12, C, folic acid and magnesium.

I have avoided antidepressants also, although I certainly would qualify for them. Depression runs in my family, and I have always been melancholic. The last year and a half have certainly been a mental health challenge. But while I feel burdened now, I am relatively okay, depression wise.

My exercise videos are all sitting out, I will start working out again soon. My mood could use it, and my jeans are a bit tighter than I like. Are you still going for walks, Mich?

Get lots of sleep, your body and spirit are asking for it.

I'll try to get to bed early tonight, but DH is working late, and I can't really sleep when he is on the road. Tan, how are you doing on the sleep challenge?

Talk to you soon!

Keri


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## Tan II

Mish, I am exactly the same as you. I hide from myself, and keep myself busy until I am ready to face how I feel.
I think it's a defence mechanism. That's ok in my humble opinion.

We are here for you









I am feeling better about Tayga. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now. It is also nice to hear from someone else that I have a 'good kid'. I know that, but I'm his mom so I would think that !

My sleep is NOT happening ! My own fault ! I go to bed too late, and Jamie wakes me too early !!
It's nearly school holidays, so I can chill in the mornings without having to rush to be ready to get Tayga to school.

Keri, I also hate it when dh isn't home. I can't sleep.

I've been good and doing exercise ! I have been doing some weight training. I don't have much weight to lose. Maybe 2 - 3kilos. It's more the extra inches that I have to get rid of.
We are going on a weeks vacation just after christmas. So I want to be in as much shape as possible for that ! Can't go to the beach feeling uncomfortable !
I have a home gym, and dumbells. So it is at my own convenience that I train. As long as my head is in the right place and I'm motivated. I had a personal trainer come and assess me and give me a programme. So I have no excuse !! I also have some exercise dvd's that I do. I must say that I enjoy doing exercise. Trying to push myself that bit harder. And of course seeing the results. I have always done and enjoyed weight training and exercise.
When I was younger (like I'm so old !!), I did an aerobic instructor's course. It was such fun.

Got to hang up some washing !! BORING !

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Okay, I have been yakking on other threads. Time to check in here!

I just reread your menu, Mich, and it has made me very hungry! I love finger food. We must have a party so I have an excuse to make it!

DH is here, I won't exercise with an audience. Of course, I can't exercise while typing, so that may be a non issue. The exercise videos I have are all fun, latin dance, Paula Abdul dance, bellydance, Richard Simmons disco and show tunes, tae bo. I really do enjoy them. It's just hard to get back into a routine. It was remodeling this house that broke the routine, we worked so extremely hard on the weekends I didn't need to work out!

A home gym. That would be awsome. My gym is 4 dumbbells under an end table that need to be dusted! Maybe when we get the basement emptied out...

Mich, have you dealt with depression before? Or is this a first? No pressure, you don't have to discuss it if you don't want to.

Sometimes I still think about seeking professional counseling. Not as often as I once did.

I want to tell you to formulate a plan of action, but I am suppressing my control issues today. It is good practice.

Tan, where are you going on vacation? A beach vacation, how fun! I love the ocean, it's such a treat when I actually get to see it, being all land locked here. Mich, how far are you from the Pacific? (I'm about 1300 miles, in case you were wondering!)

How is Tayga doing after his appointment? I am wondering if it was a pressure release for him. Perhaps I expect too much....

I'm gonna try to get to work a bit earlier today, maybe I'll beat my brother there!

The meditation for today is a bit disturbing. I'm going to think about it, and maybe get back to you.

Keri

ps beads, beads, beads


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## Mammax4

Boy, all this vacation & beach talk sure is making me want a holiday!

Hmmm. Yes, I am still walking, although I have not gone the last 3 times. It would take a whole lot to inspire me to go for a walk at 6 am in knee deep snow. Last night when I was flossing my teeth, that tooth I thought I cracked broke. I wasn't getting out of bed to suck in freezing cold air, that didn't seem appealling in the least! So, maybe the treadmill tonight. I used to work out 3 times a week. That stopped when I was pg with Will. I hurt myself, then had a new baby....and never went back. It was great to do that. I actually had wanted to be a body builder when I was 16.

A home gym would never work for me, I can always find other things to do. Good for you Tan that you have the self discipline to get that done.

I would like to lose at least 10 pounds. I gained 5 pounds while pg this last time and another 5 afterwards. yuck!

This is my first experience with depression. It definately does run in my family. My mom had big issues, my sister has had issues...me, I have been blissfully uneffected. At least I think I have been until now. Maybe I was too busy to notice? I know I have never felt like I have since the m/c. My head can be such a toxic wasteland at times. Sometimes I can avoid it...other times it seems an overwhelming vortex that sucks me in and holds me there.

I live in the capital city, so am surrounded by the Pacific. (that would be Victoria, not Vancouver) We actually have a view of the Straight of Georgia from the back of our house. We can be to water in less than 10 minutes from my house. Our roof top deck has unreal water views, once we get stairs and a railing up there I know it will be a regular hang out for us.

Tan, where could you go for vacation...you live in Australia! Just kidding. A beach holiday sounds great right now. We are pretty beach oriented ourselves, although it is more ocean than lake that we visit. The waves off the east coast of the island are spectacular in February. Lots of white water. Harmony Loves the water too - I'm sure you already guessed that though. It is nice to have our job as parents acknowledged in our children. To know we are on the right track is good. I am glad that she (psychologist) is connected to all of you.

Keri, no censorship allowed! Be it a disturbing meditation or thought in your head, share, share, share!

I am going to seriously do the bead hunt. What size are we looking for? Keri, have you ordered anything yet? Tan? Are we sharing what we think of ourselves, or each other? *be nice!!







Perhaps better explained - what each of us feels is the strength/characteristic that the other person has brought, shared here.
ie:
Tan - quiet strength

Keri - compassion

and then of course, we need something that represents the raging lunatic in us all.

Let me know what you both think. Perhaps we should set a date for the beads to be picked and sent? Nothing like a deadline to motivate. Keri, should we send them to you? Aside from the beads that we choose, what 'filler' do we need? Tan, are you doing one or both? Are we having dangly beads for the necklace and center strung beads for the bracelet?

now I have asked my millionth question, off I go. The dentist office called me back and I have a 2:30 appointment today.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Fine. You asked for it, you got it. Meditation for today:

"What we call mourning for our dead is perhaps not so much grief at not being able to call them back as it is the grief of not being able to want to do so."
---Thomas Mann

Yuck. I don't think I have ever grieved over someone that I would not want to have back. What the hell does that mean, anyhow? That is dark. Usually I can relate somehow to every meditation, but not this one.

My aunt/godmother died a few hours ago. She has been unwell, suffering from severe early onset dementia. It makes me sad, but more for who she was years ago. That person has been gone a long time. I miss her.

We heard this morning that she was not well, and my whole family was going to leave in the morning to see her (it's a 6 hour drive). Now we are waiting for funeral arrangements.

Oh, that means I have to be around my happy freaking cousins with their babies. Fabulous. I want to go to the funeral alone, is that asking too much? I mean, no one else around. That would make my soul feel better.

Bitter, dark, awful. Enough.

It has been an all death day. Dad and I sorted through his uncle's coin collection. Uncle Clarence was a bachelor, he passed away 5 years ago. He's the one who was in the South Pacific during WWII, constructing air landing strips on little islands. All kinds of coins, Australia, NZ, New Guinea, Dutch Indies, Philippines, lots of Canadian coins, lots of Japanese and a few Chinese coins, some European and Latin American...I thought of you both. And of my lost uncle. It was quite the trail the coins spelled out.

Pretty cool, but also kinda blech.

There, that's how you get rid of the toxic waste in your brain, Mich. Spread it out here.

Mich, of course you wouldn't be walking in the snow. That was a dumb thing for me to say. Although it would be really good exercise....

Beads. Somebody pick a size, and we'll go from there. And each of us could add another component: a clasp, little endcap thingies for the end beads, or little separator thingies for between the beads. I think on the necklace, a few strung beads and some dangly ones. Tan, I think you should get both, wear the bracelet and you can hang the necklace from your rearview mirror, or from a window latch, or a robe hook...anywhere you want.

You both represent so much to me, I can't break it down into a single word or two.

Okay, checking out for tonight. Not that I can sit on the couch with DH, he is eating baby carrots VERY loudly!

Absolute, unrecognizable lunatic.


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## Mammax4

Keri, I am sorry to hear your Aunt/godmother passed away.

I have a quick thought about the meditation...then I am going to sit on the couch and sip my chicken soup...tooth fixed, but jaw sore from work done. (I have TMJ and my dentist is excellent about not opening my mouth too much, but it is still a bit sore)

Perhaps it means that we are not wanting back who the person was with all their afflictions/symptoms and pain. At the point they died, it was a far better thing for them, therefore, we (those left behind) are sad for us, but realize it is better for them. Allowing their peace to override our own wishes to have them back.

Your aunt/godmother passing away, her long term health issues, spoke loudly (to me) of this meditation. Perhaps we are sad because we recognize that it is better for her now and we wouldn't want her back to suffer like that anymore.

Does that put a different twist on what it could mean? I know I am rambling a bit, but the words won't come out right in letters - darn it!

Micheline


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## Tan II

Keri, I'm sorry to hear about your Aunt. It is always hard when someone passes away, no matter how you were expecting it.











When I read your meditation, my interprentation was that you feel grief for not wanting to call the dead back, because you have moved on. Grief = guilt, because you have moved forward and have accepted that they are not coming back, so u don't ask for them back. In doing that you feel bad. Am I making sense ?
Kind of like how I felt on Gabriel's anniversary. Guilty that I felt ok.

Although we have lived in Australia for nearly 5 years, we haven't done much travelling. So we are going to a place 6 hours away, it's a little holiday town. Meant to be very nice.
I know Australia is the ass end of the world, but we do get around









I'm happy with a bracelet or a necklace. Doesn't have to be both.

Mish, how r u feeling today ? Besides your mouth ?

Going to have time with dh now ! We are starting our 1000 piece Simpsons puzzle. We decided to do this together. Have time together to talk and chill out together and do something fun.
It's such a cool puzzle. It's all the characters that have ever been in a Simpsons episode. I promised Tayga it can go in his room when it's done. He loves the Simpsons !

Have a good day/night
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hmmm. Both of your interpretations make sense. Why did that not occur to me? Especially given the timing?

Still waiting for funeral information. I'm considering not going. But I think that would be bad. I could send a large floral arrangement...

Her passing is a relief. And I don't feel (too) guilty saying that. Even the timing....this morning the family had a meeting scheduled with the doctor to discuss the discontinuation of treatment, due to the inevitability of death. Her passing lastnight spared the family from bearing any responsibility, any guilt.

My brother called lastnight, just to see how I was doing. Was that nice, or have I gained reputation of being unstable?

Mich, I'm glad you got into the dentist so soon. My Dad had TMJ, popping jaw, jaw and neck pain. A billion years of braces (okay, I think it was 4) fixed it. We had braces at the same time, so it has been more than 20 years now.

Well anyway, I hope things start to feel better soon.

Australia is the ass end of the world? I did not know that. Everybody I know would like to visit the ass, apparently!

I'm going to drag my angst filled person to work. Joy joy.

Keri, on the verge of insanity. It's quite the view....


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## Mammax4

Tan, thank you for sharing your interpretation. I appreciate your insight. It makes sense to me. We do tend to hold on to and create all aspects of guilt don't we.?

I guess I am an ass girl myself. I kinda new that already, but didn't realize it extended to far away destinations too!









Keri, maybe your brother called because he wanted to check on you. Maybe his increase in time spent with you has shown him you are struggling right now and he was genuinely concerned. (?possible?) I think if you don't feel okay to be at the funeral, then don't go. Acknowledgement of your Aunt's passing and some kind of contact should indicate to the immediate family that you care. Maybe you need to go, in a hurts so good (bad) kind of way. It would be a good opportunity to release some of the pent up angst. It would be difficult to be there, of that I have no doubt. Perhaps more (at this moment) that your cousins would be there, babes in arms. Do what you need to do for you. Why do you think it would be bad not to go?

I have had TMJ for a long time. I had my jaw immobilized for 4 months about 6 years ago. It was wired shut, to give my joints time to settle down and heal. Pregnancy hormones pretty much wrecked that fix. I had it elasticized shut this spring. The intubation when I had my D&C wrecked it too. wah, wah...somebody call the wahmbulance.

One of the Mom's that I deal with on a daily basis told me she was pregnant yesterday. It was really hard to congratulate her. I really didn't want to, and honestly didn't mean it the way I should have, but I did eventually manage. Last night my cousin sent me pictures of his 3 boys, the baby is about 2 weeks now. I didn't want to open the pictures to look at them, but in the same breath, couldn't leave them unseen. I am worried about how heavy I feel, my body, my eyes...it seems to take superhuman strength to get up and going. Sometimes I don't even feel able to put on the happy face. I suppose that is not a bad thing, but that is unsettling too.

Tan, what a great way for couple time! And Tayga benefits from your efforts, that's a bonus.

I will talk to you later.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hey, Mich and Tan.

Yes, I'm checking in twice a day. Needy, aren't I?

Mich, I am sorry you are feeling so weighed down. How long have you been feeling this way? How are you sleeping at night? Any other symptoms?

I am concerned about you.

Your TMJ sounds capitally rotten. The immobilized jaw thing---awful. Will you have to go through something else like that? My Dad's was a cakewalk, compared to yours.

Tan, I appreciate your grief/guilt analysis also. I'm continuing to dwell on it.

Funeral is Saturday morning. Why would it be bad to not go? Because she is my godmother, because I should want to pay my respects, because all the family will be there. Because it is a final goodbye.

Why don't I want to go? I lost an awful lot of respect for my extended family when my Granddad was in a nursing home for a year and a half, and 2 (of 6) of my cousins came to visit him, both of them once only. One of my aunts, only once. Another aunt couldn't visit, another one wouldn't. They would take his money, they wanted his heirlooms, they would ask for favors, but wouldn't grace him with a visit. I am amazed at how little respect I have for them, a year and a half after his passing. That truly changed my view of them. I am still angry. (Everyone showed up when it came time to divide his estate, by the way.)

And I am still a weepy soul. I don't want to cry for hours. It can still be quite uncontrollable. And anger, combined with uncontrolled crying? That sounds like a smashing, fantastic time. Throw in a few babies, and it will be just perfect. Did I mention the PMS?

Is anyone else tired of being unraveled? Is anyone else unraveled?

I am planning on going. It is not smart.

I want to hang out with Tan and work on the Simpson's puzzle. Mich, I want to raid your fridge. Both of you will drink wine with me, won't you? That would be a much better time.

The brother is okay. I think he was checking to make sure I wasn't having a meltdown.

Mich, you did good congratulating the expectant mom. It gets easier. Really. I know I am bitching about seeing babies, but it will be so much easier than it would have been a couple of months ago. You did good looking at your cousin's pictures of his kids. Send him an email saying how much they look like him, then delete 'em.








It's amazing how much a miscarriage can hurt your heart, isn't it?

K


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## Mammax4

Phew... it must be one of those days. Keri, I was crying as I was reading your email. Yuck, yuck YUCK!! I have found myself to be weepy lately. Less than overflowing plate... too much time on my hands. I suppose that is good. I can't help but think I would be about 8 weeks from delivery now. I long for the belly I would have had.

Death can and usually does bring out the worst in people. I think who they really are shines through no holds barred at that time. The greedy gimmes that I experienced with my mom's estate was disgusting. I was almost 10 years old and my aunt and grandmother (my mom's sister and mother) went through the house and took a whole lot of stuff. Really, it was anything of value. Although I guess they did ask me if it was okay. wtf?? (pardon my language.)

I understand duty to your family, to your relationship with your Aunt is important. Is there a way that you can 'work' the room. (sorry for such a poor suggestion for a funeral) What I mean to say is can you mingle with the attendees and avoid any long exposure to the extended family? Being busy with others may help contain the anger while you are there?

Planning on going anywhere west-ish this year/summer? I could meet you in Seattle for some wine. and of course shopping! Tan? that would be fun wouldn't it.

I will get back to you later, must eat dinner with family or will get fired!

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Mich, I didn't mean to suck you into my misery. But sometimes it is good to just let the tears out, no matter the reason, isn't it?

I was surprised when I talked to DH about the funeral, he is just about as angry about my extended family as I am. I had no idea. It is gruesome, when family acts so mercenary and greedy. I cannot forget that behavior.

The stuff I have of my Grandparents? I have a few non-valuable items that were given to me that no one else wanted, and the rest I bought off the auction. Which is okay, my Granddad was still alive so the money went to him. Can we put your aunt and grandmother in a box with my nasty family, and shake them up?

Your suggestion to 'work the room' is actually a fantastic one. I really like some of my Mom's cousins, and some of the family friends. There should be a lot of people there that I know. I feel better about it already, isn't that interesting?

By the way, I have buckets of unused tears. You wanna know when I cried? Watching 'The Biggest Loser' last night. My husband is truly a saint, for staying married to an insane woman. He brought me a tissue and didn't have me institutionalized.

Lastnight I located a dainty little bracelet my aunt gave me years, perhaps decades ago. I am truly a talisman person, I place a lot of sigificance on certain items. Wearing the bracelet somehow eases my mind. Perhaps it emphasizes the connection I had with her.

Just yesterday I was thinking about the babies I miscarried, how old they would be now. I know that is really jumping ahead, since I wasn't very far along with any of them. But how different life would be. I could have a 9 month old, or a 2 month old, or be getting ready to deliver in January also. It's not often I indulge in victimhood, but this is truly unjust. Stupid world.

This funeral, no this loss is serving as a catalyst, I think. Bringing up lots of junk out of my brain.

I'd love to meet you in Seattle! We could cry in person. Or not! Would that be meeting for wine or whine?







I desperately want to take DH there, so he can go to the Museum of Flight. So a trip there has been in the back of my mind anyway. Umm, since July, when I was last there....

Hey, maybe with all your free time, you could learn to make jewelry...I've thought about doing that, but I don't have much free time. I might do it anyway. Buy myself a Christmas present. Oh, crap, I've already done that.

Tan, end of school is coming! Hang in there! How is the Simpsons puzzle coming along? We were going to have a holiday party, so I was going to hold off on a puzzle until I could leave it set out...oddly enough, I'm not in much of a party mood anymore. Puzzle, here I come!

Really gotta get going. I should vacuum some dust bunnies this morning.










Keri


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## Tan II

Dear Mish and Keri















I'm sorry u r both feeling so bad. I hope it passes quickly.

People show their true colours when money and a will are concerned. My mother's estate hasn't been sorted out yet, becasue there are a few people making claims to it. HOW RUDE. So my sister, brother and myself are taking them to court to fight it. Although I don't know if we can win. Which means we have to give some of the money away. Makes me so angry. Amazing how people think they deserve money that doesn't belong to them.

It's good that both of you are crying. It cleanses the soul.

Keri, your dh sounds so caring.

I had a crazy thought. Could it not be hormones that both of you are feeling the way u r ? Obviously for different reasons.

THe puzle got put on hold. I'm ok with it. Wed night I was too tired by the time we sat down to do it. 10.00pm seemed a stupid time to start it. And last night dh was invited to go with some frineds, which I insisted he go. It's nice for him to go out with his friends and relax. Although he came home early. He couldn't stand all the smoke in the place, said the music was crap and he wasn't ino drinking. He's not really boring, just not into bar hopping and drinking (thank goodness !). He's got nothing to prove. We'll do the puzzle on the weekend. Whenever, it's meant to be relaxing, not stressful.

Did u do your puzzle ?

Did someone say ... shopping ? And wine !!! Hang on, I'm packing my suitcase !!

I better get moving. Still sitting here in pj's when I'm meant to be getting dressed to take Tayga to school !! OOps !

Chat later
Tan


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## Mammax4

:

Thought we could use a little wiggle and a giggle! A few servings of fruit and veggies is good for the soul.

Keri, are you leaving tonight or in the morning? Safe journey to you. Is your DH going with you? BTW, how do you get to claim my crying state? I know you are good, but all powerful too! Wow...I thought it was just me, I didn't know I could blame you for the tears...Thanks!









We can box up the aforementioned persons as long as we include Tan's bunch and my DH's sister and BIL's soon to be ex. At the end of the day, to be able to hold one's head high, having acted with integrity, is worth far more than all the stuff others get so caught up in. We didn't take much stuff from DH's parents house, silly stuff really. BIL's wife was all over the things of consequence/value. Now he is fighting to get those things back from her... it isn't about the 'stuff' as much as it is he doesn't want his parents things outside of the family. My parents have made me the executrix of their wills. I hope that my sisters and I can muddle through without destroying our relationships.
I know I am taking my Dad's Harley...they can have everything else.







(just kidding)

Tan, I am sorry that you are not immune to the [email protected] that can/does go on after a death. I hope it doesn't take too long to get it finished. I hope you win and ask for legal fees so they get stuck with the bill. That would be the way to fix their wagons!

My task this weekend is to have some time downtown. I have a gift card that was given to me in August that I still haven't used yet. So, I will attempt to do that And I am going to the bead shop. I will let you know how it goes. I will probably add in a little Christmas shopping too, I don't have much left to do and want to finish it before it gets totally insane.

Perhaps we should organize a Raging Lunatic 'W(h)ine Party'. Tan, let us know when your bags can be packed...we'll meet in the middle somewhere and shop 'til we drop.

Keri, when were you due in Jan? I don't think it matters how far you were. It is the thoughts and hopes of what life would be like after delivery. I was thinking about nursing again...how I would have a baby to bring with me when I took Will to school. It is that, I think, that we lose. Although it may be only weeks, or months of pregnancy...I think you think so much about what it will be like, that you really lose the child, or perhaps the dream of that child. He/she is a child, they just weren't in our arms yet...only in our hearts and minds...which is where they stay.

On that note, before I bring this really down...because yes, I too am all powerful! (couldn't you tell?)

I will check in later, because I too have been checking in more often than before lately.

Tan, I hope you have a chance to relax with Bart and Homer this weekend. Keri, safe journey, I hope the funeral (contact with extended family) is buffered by others for you.

Later my friends,

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hey there, friends.

Thanks for the dancing produce, Mich! I really enjoy those little guys. Tan, you gave me a dancing banana a while back, that was cool too!

I leave in the morning. My brother and I will be driving together. I threatened to go alone, because I want to do the cemetery tour...my brother didn't want to ride with 4 other adults. I don't blame him!

DH isn't going. His only coworker is being fired as of the first of the year---we just found this out Wednesday. They are government subcontractors, and for some reason the Dept. of Defense won't renew the coworker's security clearance. His appeal was denied with no explanation. It's truly a sad thing, he is a very nice guy, and he and DH get along so well. Anyway, he has a job interview on Saturday, and they have a flight to launch and recover, so if DH isn't there, coworker has to cancel his job interview.

That's okay, now we don't have to find a dogsitter, worry about the cats, I don't have to iron a shirt or suit. I wish he was going, but I'm okay with him not.

Apparently the process of settling estates brings out the worst in people. My Dad's brother and sister were very reasonable though. No fighting. I was a little wounded that so much got auctioned, and none of the grandkids were in a position to buy anything. (I was 19). My Mom bought some things for me. She is still using most of them! I have their wineglasses, an antique iron, and my Grandma's cast iron skillets. And a beautiful quilt. And my great Grandma Christine's potato masher and jewelry box. That's who passed on the chocolate cake recipe.

Anyhoo. Tan, I hope the hangers-on get their comeuppance. That's just nasty, that they are trying to get money that isn't theirs.

Baby #3 was due January 20, my MIL's birthday. Won't ever forget that one, will I? She was so excited about that, I am worried that it will really hurt her when her birthday comes around. When was yours due, Mich?

I like the 'Raging Lunatic W(h)ine Party', that's the perfect title! Given enough time, planning and saving, I will travel anywhere...

Have fun shopping, Mich! Let us know what you find. Tan, have a fun summer weekend with your family & the Simpsons!

I'll talk to you both on Sunday.

Keri


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## Mammax4

And here I am yet again today!

I wondered what your DH's connection to the flight museum was. Another funny connection? My DH builds airplanes. He builds the wings for Otter and Beaver etc. planes. What is your DH's plane thing? Is the launch and recover the guy with the glowing sticks that direct the plane? (yep, I am sounding very stupid at the moment!)










My EDD was Jan. 31. We must be on close cycles then. Maybe Tan has it right and we are hormonal! Tan, you are Amazing! (not just because you can figure out the hormone thing either, that is just a bonus)

Are you going to be okay in the car with your brother for all that time? Do you have a good relationship or is it strained? The few posts, mentioning him, have sounded strained, but could be due to current circumstances. (him invading your space that is newly challenging due to your Mom's health)

What's with my banana? It's not dancing... (never mind, it started again)

Must go eat dinner now...well, perhaps a piece of fruit or something. The cookie exchange party I was supposed to attend went on without me. Chris came home from school today and said there was a band concert tonight. I am not sure I knew about this, I may have and forgot. Anyway, I was rushing around trying to get my errands done and get there on time.

We are having company over on Saturday night. Some good friends of ours are coming back for a real visit. It is hard to have a good visit with so much to do on open house. They may be bringing a friend for BIL to meet. I don't think he is near ready for a relationship, but a nice evening with a new friend wouldn't hurt.

Keri, drive safe. Do your best to avoid those you can not stand. I will be thinking of you. Tan, have you any beach plans for this weekend? Could I come with you? I would love to be warm again. The snow is almost all gone, but it is still a bit cold here.

Talk to you later.
Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi









Keri, drive safe. I hope everything is ok, and you feel alright.









Mish, you sound like you have been running around like ..... a lunatic !!I hope u have a relaxing weekend with your friends. I'm sure it will be great to chill out with friends. Nice that they are bringing a friend for your bil.

Tomorrow is meant to be a stinking hot day. 37 C, hhhmmmm, that's 98 Farenheit.








It is beach weather, but not for long, it'll be too hot.
We're meeting friends for a morning coffee and walk along the beach front. I'm sure it will be very nice. They are new friends, and such nice people. They have had their own losses - different to us. The point is that they can relate to our pain and loss, and us to theirs. We share a different "look" on life. It makes the friendship easier, becasue there is no need to explain anything.

In the afternoon my SIL's SIL (just to confuse you) sells jewellery from home. Very nice stuff. Anyway, tomorrow she is having an open day for people to come and see her stuff and hopefully purchase some. SHe asked me to help her - to be an extra pair of hands and eyes. She said she'll give me a bracelet I've had my eye on for helping her for 3 hours. NO PROBLEM !!!

Tomorrow night (sat), we may go to the beach for dinner. Seeing it'll be so hot, it will be nice in the evening. Although it may sill be too hot, we'll play it by ear.

Sunday, nothing is planned so far.

Mish and Keri, how are you feeling today ? Better I hope.

It's nearly midnight, and I still have to shower. I'm so tired.

Catch up with you later
Tan:yawning:


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## Mammax4

I did actually make it down to the bead shop on Saturday. I found lots of good stuff, and realized there are so many options that we should have a better defined plan. What are your thoughts on the beads? I was looking at a stones book in the shop and was inspired to consider more ideas. My gf has a couple of stones books that she is going to lend me if I want.

For the pieces, I was thinking that we should consider the following;

a stone that represents:

loss/grief (rose quartz)
a spiritual connection (rainbow moonstone or tanzanite)
healing/peace (lapis lazuli or morganite)
strength (botswana agate - feminine power)
fertility (coral - childbirth/adoption)

Those were some of the thoughts I had. I liked the 6mm size with some 2mm as well. If we ship the beads to Keri, we should include our wrist measurement as well, so the bracelet will fit.

The rest of the weekend was gone in a flash. Saturday was a bit of a let down, there was something funky up with the couple that came over. And it has been laundry day for me today. I was a lounge gal aside from that. We have a busy week ahead with getting ready for my parents on Friday, company on Thursday and haircuts for all of us on Wednesday. I didn't get out of my pj's until about 12:30pm







!

I had the Mom that told me recently that she was pregnant call me. She was using me as a resource for some questions. (experience and field) It doesn't look good. She may be joining us. I was careful how I worded things to her, trying not to be negative. She may be one of those that carries on without issue. I guess neutral is what I was being.

All this while here I sit, with amazing indications of extreme fertility...no interest and resignation. In the past, ovulation would bring an interest in dtd...not now. Is that a sign that I am okay with not, or is it that I am numb and can't get there? Maybe it is an opportunity to avoid a barrier method that I loath.

Keri, I hope you had an uneventful journey. How was the funeral?

Tan, did you have a nice weekend? (I know I am asking you on Monday..)

I suppose I best get to folding the laundry before I get carried away rambling on and on.

Good night
Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Good Monday, friends!

Thanks for asking about the funeral. It was okay. Strange. My brother and I thought things worked out well, neither of us had to sit by our Dad, who is a grief bomb. He cries, we cry. Anyway, we sat in the pew behind them, so we could see my Mom, Dad, aunts and uncles cry in front of us, and the family of my deceased aunt in front of them.....torture. I finally left the church to go outside (the service was over, but not....).

It was harder than I thought it would be. You both know, you think you have mourned for a person, then you find a pent-up pile of grief that has never been addressed. I'm still a bit shaken by it...wishing it wasn't true. This is the first aunt or uncle I have lost, and I don't like the paradigm shift of my parent's generation being 'old'. What's more, she was my Mom's little sister.

Family was well behaved, I was well behaved (sat in the corner a lot), the estranged aunt and uncle were there and oddly social. It went fine. Mich, I did work the room, chatting with cousins and neighbors. Good suggestion. Everybody wants to talk about their kids, grandkids, dogs, just get them started.

My brother and I sometimes get along famously, sometimes fight like hell.

The 12 hours in the car and sharing a motel room went well. We met 3 new dead ancestors on the cemetery tour (2 more are buried there, no headstones though, I must fix that). And an unexpected relative, a 14 year old who must be an uncle to my great grandfather. I do enjoy the dead family, is that bizarre? Someday I'll get the family tree done digitally, and will include cemetery info.

Tan, did you get the bracelet? What's it like? Mich, did your BIL enjoy meeting someone new? What was the deal with the couple? Tan, the walk on the beach sounds lovely. I'm going to pause for a moment, and join you. Nice.

Mich, I'm sorry about your expectant friend. I hope everything turns out okay, but if it doesn't, she is lucky to have your background and wisdom.

Beads are overwhelming, aren't they? There are apparently a lot of different meanings attached to stones, so we will just have to ballpark it. I read that rose quartz replaces negativity with peace and calm, moonstone has something to do with balance and harmony. Those are the two that stick in my mind. Have you seen the glass beads with the pink/blue infant loss ribbon inside? Wondering what your opinion is on those.

Mich, my DH is an aircraft mechanic. He worked on helicopters in the army, works on planes now. Actually a plane...it's complicated. But whenever the plane flies or lands, one of the mechanics has to be there to tow it, fill out the log book. DH just named off a specific company he thinks your DH must work for. What a strange, small world!

And do you think the resignation is a step towards acceptance? With the ovulation? It is gruesome, when you want a baby, to let an egg go to waste. If you are not feeling that, it means something.....

Our cycles are not quite in sync, as I am in PMS right now. Thankfully, this is the easiest month of it since the last m/c. It's actually kinda normal, which is soooo nice. It has been remarkably worse in the last few months, and I almost forgot about it this time around...progress.

Yak yak yak yak yak.









I'll stop. This week I will pick beads. The pressure is on!

Keri


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## Mammax4

Good Morning!

Well, it was a brisk start to my day today. Nothing like a rush around to get you moving, although perhaps not the best mood setter.

I don't think that finding one's ancestors, and being excited about it, is weird. Perhaps that is my perspective because I would love to know more of my own. With my background, it has been a bit of a struggle to research. I think it is reflective of the importance of family to you Keri.

I am glad the funeral was alright. Good for you for recognizing when you needed to have time away. That is not always an easy thing to do.

The more research I do on beads, the more confused I get. There are many different stones and not all places have the same meanings for the stones. I have seen the bead with the birth/loss ribbon in it. I don't know how it would fit in with the other stones. I am not adverse to using it. It is how we came to know each other and therefore very appropriate.

I like the rose quartz and the moonstone too. I also like the blue lace agate. Those three look great together. I have not seen any of the glass birth/loss beads in person, have you? I am guessing we will have to order them from somewhere. I was also looking for the small feet charm, wanting to see if that might be appropriate. Do you want a charm? I will look on line for some beads. I also want to go to a different store downtown, they are very spritual and have lots of stones too.

I forgot to mention when I was in the bead store asking the sales person if they had specific things, she asked what it was representing. I told her what the bracelets/necklaces were for. She said she had a molar pregnancy years before and she acknowledged my loss. I ended up crying in the middle of the bead store. It amazes me how you can go along, for a while, seeming to be improving and stabilizing and them wham! There you are back in the midst of it all over again. (I do think that getting out of it is getting easier though)

Funny our DH's are both plane guys. It really is a small world.

I don't know what to think about my resignation. Acceptance or depression or a reluctance to engage in what won't result the way I would have liked it to.

I figured we were on opposite ends, as our due dates were two weeks apart. I have a hormone surge midway through my cycle and it stays until the end. I too have found that since the m/c my cycles are messed up. Longer and heavier.

Anyway, must go motivate Will to get dressed. He has a cold with a wicked cough right now.

Have a good day.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Good morning/evening !

I'm soooo tired. Jamie has been awake since 5.00am. I think he's teething. I don't mind getting up early (well, I do), but it's the crying and wanting to be held all the time that drives me mad. He wouldn't let me put him down for a second. Eventually he did.

Keri, I'm glad the funeral wasn't as bad as you expected. Death is always hard, whether it's expected or not. It makes you question your own mortality. Quiet a scary thought.

I did get the bracelet, and it's gorgeous. I'll take a pic of it for you. It's a mock of the Pandora. Don't know if u know Pandora. It's where you have the chain, and you can put what ever bead onto it. Kind of what we want to do. Sort of. Anyway, besides hearts and stars, I've also put the initial of each of my boys. Something I've wanted to do for ages. I love it.

What about having each of our initials on the necklace/bracelet?

Trying to get this scrapbook done before school finishes (next week wed). Only because we're going away for a week, then dh has taken another weeks leave. Then it's our anniversary 12 Jan. So I don't have much time to get it done. Especially with dh around. I might have to take some time out and sneak off to the scrapbook store and do it there !! If it wasn't a surprise it would be easier !

Chat later
Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan, I love the idea of our initials on the jewelry, excellent idea! I hope you were able to get a rest in today. Amazing how fast this year has gone. Your anniversary will be here before you know it. (not to add pressure on you..) Maybe you could get some time at the scrapbook store, by yourself!! That might be nice.

BIL didn't get to meet the lady, she had other plans but was interested to come another time. I am not sure what is up with our friends. They have some stuff going on I think. We remembered (afterwards) that it was a bit funky last year too. Her dh wasn't so nice to her, was not so much this year either. He is stressed out about work and has been for a while, perhaps that is it.

Talk later!

Micheline.


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## lolalapcat

Good gloomy morning, I guess...it would be so much easier to be a morning person if it weren't so unattractive at this time of day!

I'm sorry each of you have a son in distress. I hope the teeth come in fast and the cold goes away rapidly.

I spent 2 1/2 hours redoing the Christmas tree last night. The lights weren't distributed evenly---it looks much better now. Now maybe I will get gifts wrapped and start on cards. Anyone who wants a card, get me your address! Kindly understand that they are typically late....

Something is wrong with my head. Like that wasn't obvious! I don't feel like talking much, I don't want to touch the other threads on this board (when normally all I want to do is reach out), I am disinterested in the grief meditations. It might be rebound from the funeral. I just don't know.

Somewhere else on the MDS boards I ran across a link, greenleesforest.com.
She makes lovely jewelry, and if you look in the lower left hand corner of the homepage, she has a link for the meanings for a LOT of stones. And I like the fact that she is part of this community, I guess, so I am more interested in the meanings she has. Since there seem to be so many to choose from....

Initials







Great idea! Charms, maybe? Or beads? I'm not sure what our options are. Also like the baby feet charm. No, I haven't seen the pink/blue ribbon-in-glass beads in person.

Mich, it is interesting that you made a connection with someone while searching for the beads. I don't think these things happen by accident. It is a good sign.

Okay, I'm off to carpe diem. Hope it isn't crappie diem! Must work on attitude...

Good luck on the scrapbook, Tan! How is your head? Really? Mich, there's a lot you are not talking about....

Keri







:


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## Mammax4

*please note: a comfy seat and a hot beverage (or cold one in Australia) may be needed to endure the length of the following post.

Keri, my sister in spirit... how insightful to see the 'happy' me.

I was rereading some posts today. You asked if anyone else was tired of unravelling. Um...yep...that would be me. I am usually so (I hate to say this) in control of my life. (at least in control of what I am doing in my life) I am a person that goes flat out with a full plate all the time and doesn't miss a beat. The me right now is putting on a great show at keeping it together, when in reality the opposite is true. I guess I need to be okay with where I am at, but it is difficult not being able to keep up.(can you see the control freak in me?)

My cards aren't out, my shopping isn't done, I am usually finished all of this way early. My baking isn't finished, I have the raspberry fudge balls to roll still. That is the 'stuff' part of it.

The emotional part is just numb. I want to live my life, not just participate. I am ambivilent about my relationship.
(not really, but it is hard to get worked up for it or against it) Somedays I wonder what it would be like if he didn't come home. I hate that. It feels like we are just going through the motions, not really connecting. It feels like I am in the water flailling my arms, trying to keep from drowning... if I stop, I will sink...I don't know how much longer I can flail.

I long for the comfortable, loving relationship that we have had for all but the last while. I guess we need to have some couple time. I think part of me avoids that because if we are all lovey, dtd comes next. I go to bed hours after him to avoid the potential of that. dtd makes me sad...sad there will be no more babies. I think that is where my wondering what it would be like without him comes from. I could get pregnant again if it wasn't for him. Nice attitude - not! That makes me feel awful. Really, I do want us to go on and be great again. He is a good man, and as much as he said this m/c wasn't a loss for him, he is much more involved and interactive with the boys now. He is doing things with them, where before he would have said 'later'.

This is not a good time for all of this to be happening. (is there ever a good time?) My parents come on Friday, we have most evenings filled, DH is doing overtime at work. Perhaps I will try to (scratch that ... I will) sit down with him and check in and see how he is really doing. I really miss our deep connection. It has been filled in by lack of action on our parts. I must get out the shovel. And I will ask DH to give me a hand.

I guess what it boils down to is I am not okay with no more babies. There isn't much I can do about that. I can't make him have one, I wouldn't want to have one and have him be resentful.(well, the selfish part of me would, his attitude be damned) I need to work on not being resentful of him.

Whew... I think that needed to get out of me. I was apparently keeping more than sharing. Thanks for the prodding.

Now, a plan for the jewelry...

What if we chose 3 stones for the bracelet, either by agreeing on what is important to us, or pick one stone each. (may get a double that way)

I would like to focus on the positive, and will not use the same idea (for picking stones) that I originally had. It was more focused on the loss, I think it would be better to focus on the healing.

I think if we have the initials on the bracelet, that is a connection of the three of us, if we have (want?) the baby feet, that represents our loss, and also what has brought us together.

I looked at greenleesforest and these are my ideas:
_Balance_:Agate or Chalcedony or Jasper
_Healing_: Aventurine or Bloodstone
and I like Moonstone too, but struggle with a 'classification'

Let me know what you think....other than the fact that I am a big spaz! We all know that already!

Feeling lighter now...sort of

Now Tan...my spirit sister...you have been awfully short (limited words, not bad attitude) on your posts lately. Are you okay? Are you just busy, or are you keeping your happy face too?

Keri, please unload, it is not like you to not want to talk. I have been wondering about you as you have been very busy on other threads lately. I know you do more elsewhere when you are worried about bringing this one down. (your words I believe...) Is it the funeral, or is it that you too have been keeping up your happy face here?

Micheline







:


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## lolalapcat

Mich









Being busy is nice, you don't have to think. But, boy, do you have some serious catching up with what you have been cramming in the back of your brain.

Maybe you don't want to do cards, fudge balls, etc because you have started the hard work of thinking again. It has to be done...

Yes, dtd takes on sooo much more meaning when it involves procreation. Maybe that's why I too go to bed hours after DH. Avoidance.

Have you and your DH spent any time together, holding hands, watching tv, or maybe talking? You have talked before about trying to reconnect...we haven't been good at following up on the marriage care challenge.

I hope your talk with him opens a door. Maybe you should tell him that you don't want to dtd until after the hysterectomy, so the baby issue isn't there like it is now. That would give you space, and him hope. Of course, that is assuming a lot, I know.

I wish I could help you stop flailing. It's a crappy feeling. When do we float, is that acceptance? I wouldn't even know what to accept, other than the fact that my road is hard right now.

Here's my unload: My Mom's condition has gotten worse in the last few days. She notices it too, and it is weighing her down. I don't know what to do or say, it takes everything in me not to panic.

My Dad is so heavily burdened, I'm not sure he can handle much more. There is no end in sight that is good. Something needs to be done, but I don't know what to do.

They are discussing putting a bar up in the bathtub, when she actually needs a person to help her bathe. I know, I helped her in the motel before the funeral. I feel like I should volunteer to help her some at home, but I really don't want to, and feel bad that I don't want to.

And my brother is around all the damn time, so there is no conversation between Dad and me. That would help. I cling to routine, especially when under stress. There is no work routine, even outside of the brother. It is chaos.

Sometimes I think there is so much going on that it is stupid to even think about trying to have a baby. How much more do I need to add into this? But then there is the biological clock, how long can I put it off? Especially if we move on with adoption, which can't be rushed.

It is too much to wrap my brain around. The confluence of events is cruel.

Ah, like your parents showing up this weekend, your DH working overtime, and your brain is churning....you understand.

My happy face? I don't have a happy face. I'm just hoping that a shift in hormones will help me feel less on-the-verge-of-nuts.

Blech. Sorry for pelting you with all of that.

Keep flailing. I'll keep at it too. Tan, I hope you are doing better than we are. Is so, toss us a line. If not, join us in the deep end.

I'll check in tomorrow.

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi K & M

Mish I am good. Sorry if I have been brief. Not intentional. It seems like the past few days have been a mad rush, and free (me) time is sparse.
With the end of the school year approaching, I am trying to squeeze in as much possible with Tayga still being at school. Once he's on summer holidays, my time is busy keeping him busy ! And 'me' time is definately out.
I am also busy trying to finish my anniversary scrapbook. So free time is spent doing that.

I am still around !

I am sorry you are feeling so crap. I understand. You are where I was at when I joined the forum. It's a lonely, depressing, horrible place to be in.
I am here for you. Here's my hand - take it.

As much as it's a horrible place to be, I think it is good too. You are facing your demons. You can only go up from here.

Don't try and swim against the tide. Go with it.
Feel your pain. Embrace it. Make peace with it. Move on.

I hope this bleak time doesn't last long.

My relationship with dh was the same. Obviously for different reasons. I wasn't happy with him at, and didn't like him very much. That scared me, to feel that way. We had/have a fantastic marriage, relationship and friendship. I think he felt the same way. We had enough of each other. Everything went west. Our physical and emotional relationship.

Thankfully, that has come right too. We are back on track, trying hard to get back to where we used to be.

It is really scary to think you can dislike the person you loved with all your heart.

You reach a point where you have to decide if you care enough to fix the problem or not. If you do care, then it takes effort. And if it's all worth it, then it's no problem.

Have you spoken again about how you feel about having another baby ? Is there absolutely no chance? (sorry, I think I'm a bit out of line here).

You will not sink, we will carry you. Stop fighting it, catch you breathe. Calm. Breath, breath, breath. Everything will be ok.

I like your attitude regarding the bracelet. That it represent healing, hope and love as against loss. I haven't had a chance to look at the website, I will.

Oh, and by the way..... you're not a spaz !!! Just a LUNATIC !! But so are he rest of us









Keri, I hope you are feeking better too. I think death always makes one pensive. Especially when it happens o someone close to you. It's a loss, and in your own way you are grieving. I'm no expert, but that is how I imagine you are feeling. I'm sorry for your loss








I'm here for you.

I'd love to chat more, but I have to hurry and get moving. It's Tayga's end of year school concert tonight. So I have to prepare dinner and get organised.

Chat later
Tan


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## Tan II

Keri, I've just read your reply.

You have a tough road ahead of you. I don't know what I can say to make it easier for you. Seeing your mom's condition get worse is scary. I know when I visited my mom when she was so ill how I felt. You feel like shaking them and saying "stop it, you can't do this. "

It is scary because it is so out of your control and there isn't much you can do to stop it.

I can't tell you what to do, or how to feel. I can tell you I am here for you, and offer you all my support.

Have you thought about taking rescue remedy ? (Do u know it?) A homeopathic remedy for stress and anxiety. It works. I took it while Gabriel was in hospital.

I'll check in later. I hope u r alright.
Tan


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## Tan II

Hi









I had a look at the website. What gorgeous stuff.

There are a few stones I like, but am not 100% on.
I really like Agate and Bloodstone.
I've question marked Amber, Aventurine & Onxy.

Off to sleep !
Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan- No apologies necessary. I thought I should check on you, as I have noticed that sometimes you unload only after a direct opportunity. I am glad that you are okay and just busy. (keeping up with being busy is hard enough!) The end of school always brings a busy time, plus getting ready to go away and get your scrapbooking done... I just wanted to make sure you were good. Yeah! you are! (good thing, being the other two of our three are in the crapper at the moment!)

I have spoken with DH about another baby, he said no way, no how. (not exactly like that, but that was the drift) You were not out of line to ask me that at all. It is something I will have to come to terms with. Truthfully, I think I would have to come to terms with that at any point. (3 children or 10 children) My DH is my moderator of all things baby... I think I would be sad to stop no matter how many children I had. I think it is hard now, because it happened quickly and a little unexpectedly. (not trying, not avoiding..) I didn't think we were going to have anymore after Will, but realized how much I wanted another - even more so after becoming pregnant. I had been talking to DH about another baby for a while before getting pregnant.

Healing, Hope and Love... that sounds like a good 'theme' to consider for the jewelry. Tan, have you decided on a necklace too? Keri, what are your stone choices?

Keri- I am sorry that your Mom's health has turned so quickly. I can appreciate where you are coming from as my MIL's health changed rapidly too. I see the stress that creates. I am sorry you don't have the chance to talk to your Dad one-on-one. Could you sneak him away for a cup of coffee? or is he stuck to your Mom right now?

I know it is hard, you feel bad (guilt?) about not wanting to help your Mom, but the truth is she may prefer someone else to step into that role. It can be difficult for a family member to have someone they are related to help them. The person can feel as they are a burden, and embarrassed by how much help they really need. Sometimes a non-relative is better. That way the two of you can maintain your Mother/Daughter relationship. You will have enough with nuturing that, you don't really need to add more. (not dicating how you should do anything, but merely my own thoughts about your situation)

Last night, I stayed home and did some wrapping and planning of Christmas presents. DH was there, we had a nice talk. He said that he would help me do what ever I needed help with, I just need to ask him. DH said that he wasn't seeing as much of me as normal, or he would like. I said...well, that's because I am out of the house shopping all the time. I hate to ask for help, it would be nice if he would just do the things he sees that need doing. Must work on allowing/asking others to help me. Honestly BIL does more helpful stuff around the house than DH. (BIL empties the dishwasher and will wash the dishes -without being asked to- after dinner)

DH called me from work this afternoon. It was nice, I was surprised and happy to have him call. He wanted to check in and see how we were doing and if we still had power or not. We are in the midst of the 3rd of 3 storms here. Wicked wind and raining. Part of the roof blew off the building that DH works in, so they may be calling it quits early today. DH also decided not to do any more OT. It was his decision, we hadn't spoken about anything at that point. I am glad he will stick to his regular schedule. That will also make things much easier on me, I can ask him to help or shop.

I have got to say my friends, I can't imagine what my life would be like without the two of you. Your understanding, words of wisdom and experience mean more to me than I can express. Thank you for being my life jacket.

I better go, we keep having brown outs... I don't want to lose this post.

Check in later.
Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hi, Tan and Mich!

I am less insane, yesterday was much better. Today my head seems to be okay, at the moment! Thanks for letting me unload, I find I have a lot of emotional stuff going on that isn't on the surface. It's so easy to ignore, until it explodes. Um, you both understand that one, don't you?

Tan, you're so right about facing demons, and only being able to go up when you are so down.

Mom and I went shopping yesterday, which she really enjoyed. Her handicapped parking permit showed up in the mail yesterday, which is a relief. Today she has another acupuncture appointment, also a relief. She was walking a little better yesterday, again relief.

Dad and I had the shop to ourselves late yesterday, had a cocktail and talked some. Kind of like old times!

Brother is driving me insane. Tries to get too involved in the business, refuses to acknowledge my level of expertise. Interrupts our Dad on the phone rather than asking me a question. Must not kill him at Christmas time, that would be bad mojo. Please Santa, bring my brother a job! Not mine, preferably.

Mich, it sounds like you and DH had some good time together the other night. And if he will help if you ask....maybe ask him to help with the same thing every night. Perhaps it will become a habit?

That is super cool that your BIL helps with dishes. Hey, where is your SIL? I thought you were in for a mega visit.

Aaack! Beads. I have spent over an hour researching.

I'm leaning strongly towards rose quartz, chalcedony and obsidian. I also like jasper, onyx and fluorite. And about 15 others. I will think on the stones today, and try to get more settled. Overall, I am drawn to the calming, loving stones that remove negativity, improve communication, aid in grief.

I'm thinking about learning to make jewelry like this. I have seen it done, maybe I can learn fast. It doesn't take much equipment.

Tan, how's the scrapbook coming along? Jamie's teeth? The Simpsons puzzle? Your sister's move to Australia?

Mich, how is Will doing? Your tenuously pregnant acquaintance? And yes, the SIL? Did you get the raspberry fudge balls done? How are you doing with the computer in a different room?

Gotta go to work, another day of family bonding awaits....

Thanks for keeping me afloat, and keeping my DH from drowning under the weight of my issues....I would either self destruct or destroy my marriage if it weren't for the 2 of you. Marriage--intact. Sanity--relatively intact. Take off your capes, your work here is done! No, not really, please don't go...

Keri


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## Tan II

SUPERRRRRR LUNATIC to the rescue !!!

Ha ha ha !

I'm glad to hear you are feeling better. Somedays it happens, the wheels fall off. Then you're in trouble.

I'm glad to hear your mom is feeling better. I'm sure you almost give a sigh of relief when you see her feeling better.

Nice that you and your dad were able to re-connect yesterday. Hopefully it happens more often. Did you tell him that you miss your chats ? Maybe you should, so he would know to make a point of doing it more often with you. Youi know what men are like, a bit unaware of things like that !

Hopefully your bro finds another job, or stops being such a smart ass. You're a girl, of course he knows more than you !

Making jewellery is easy. A good friend of mine makes stuff and sells it. She makes such gorgeous stuff. I think the hard part is being creative, not actually making it.
Go for it, it may be a great outlet for you, being creative. It'll also give you time to get into your head.
That's why I love doing decoupage or puzzles or scrapbooking. I put on music to suit the mood, and get into my head and chill.

The scrapbooking is good. I'm nearly done. Today I want to do Gabriel's page. Doing a page for each child. I'm doing the background on black pages. Then matting the pic on white, then black, then white again. The pic is of Gabriel's hand on dh's. I had it printed in sepia. Then on the other side, I'll triple mate again (white, black, white) on a black page. I'm going to do twinkle little star.
It's not meant to be sad. I have acknowledged our children as part of our 10 years, that means Gabriel too.

The scrapbook is really looking fantastic. I'm very happy with it. Got maybe 2 pages left to do.

I'm loving doing it.

The puzzle hasn't even come out of he box !!!! Sorry Simpsons !
Maybe we'll take it with on holiday to do in the evenings. Got a puzzle roll-up mat thingy, so we can move it around with us.

Jamie's teeth.... hmmm. Well, nothing has popped out. I think he's been waking because he thinks it's fun to do. Who knows !! But he's fine otherwise !

Tayga finishes school on wed. He's so excited. Poor kid.

My sister should be here around 25 Jan.














YAY !!!!!!!! It's going to be amazing having her here. Now we have to work on my brother. Ever tried to convice a 22 year old who is stubborn to do something ? (even though he wants to ?)

My cape is always on. If it's not on, it's in my handbag !! Feel free to fall apart here. I'm always on duty (unless I'm falling apart myself !!).

Mish, I've been thinking about you and how you are feeling. I was trying to imagine if it was me. I also want another one. In my mind, I AM having another one. What if I couldn't for whatever reason ? I would be so angry and frustrated.
I hope you are feeling a little better. Maybe if it was your choice not to be pregnant, you would accept it more. That wasn't the case. I hope you get there.

A necklace sounds great. I will still email you a pic of my bracelet.

If your dh is like mine, then I feel sorry for him. My dh always tell me 'why don't you tell me you need help/ are feeling sad ?'
I suppose I expect him to know these things. To read my mind. I'm not asking too much !!
If you don't, then maybe try and let your dh know more about what's going on in your head, or ask for help if you need it. I relate to u, becasue I am exactly the same. I HATE asking for help. I'd rather dh did stuff on his own, with me having to ask.

Men !!!! Can't live with them ....... ! I shouldn't be mean, my dh is great.

Off to do my scrapbook.

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan--

You sound so...normal lately. Like a non-lunatic. Like a happy person. I can't even express how nice that is to see!

Your scrapbook pages for Gabriel sound absolutely perfect. Of course he is part of your 10 years together!

I was editing a photo for a brochure at work yesterday, and was thinking of your photos of Gabriel. The offer still stands.

The photo editing is one of the few creative things I do, although I've been having fun wrapping Christmas and birthday gifts. When I was a kid, and all the way through college, I did lots of artistic stuff. Sculpting is really easy for me, but haven't done that in years. I need an outlet, you are right.

The idea of putting together the bracelets/necklaces really appeals to me, but more because of what they are. But I really want them done right--the bracelets my MIL has made for me have been through a lot of wear with no problems.

Have you noticed that no decision is easy for me? I annoy myself.







:

Hey, maybe I can convince my brother to move to Australia, as a test. Then I can go to work on your brother!

It will be so much fun for you to have your sister there! I am excited on your behalf. I'm picturing lunches and shopping and long conversations while walking on the beach with the kids. Lovely.

Hey, the holidays are bringing out a fair amount of resentment in me. Anybody else? I'm talking to you, Mich! What you were saying, Tan, about if you couldn't have another baby...all the holiday cards and letters, photos of kids and stories about kids. We were supposed to have one by now. Damn it. So yes, frustration and resentment and anger. Why does Christmas bring that out?

I used to LIVE for Christmas cards. Now I open them and put them aside, don't really read the letters. (Please still send me one, Mich, I'll read yours without resentment, you are one of the sisters of my soul too).

One more thing to work through....sigh. That's what I needed.

Back to happier things, Happy Hannukah, Tan! I hope you have a lovely 8 days of remembering little miracles.

I'm off to vacuum, then head in for another day of work. Really ready for the weekend!

Keri

ps I picture the cape pink, encrusted with rhinestones....


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## Mammax4

Happy Hannukah Tan

Tan...





















I am so *not* worthy.... You ROCK!! Rescue Goddess, Scrapbooking Queen, Super Mom...







:

There are times when I read here and get teary, sometimes I smile... this was definately a smiling time. Thanks for that. I feel more energized reading how up you are.

I think you're right, as it wasn't my decision to stop, it is harder for me to accept it. I would have another baby in a heartbeat. (well, I mean that I would be willing to try and get pregnant again without any hesitance what so ever) It does make a nasty part of me come out (in thought) from time to time. If DH was not here... I don't imagine the reason why he wouldn't be here, I would be very sad if that was my reality...I just envision my barrier gone. It is something I will have to learn to live with and not have resentment towards DH for. I have a fear that all this negativity will bring bad things our way, I must get on the positive side. I imagine having the hysterectomy done and then DH not being there anymore.

It sounds like my DH is like yours. He doesn't self motivate at all. Most recently he has been getting irritated at me for pushing him to do things. During the reno, he was not very tolerant of me pointing out things that needed to get done. He told me he felt like I was mothering him. Well, how exactly do I go about asking for him to do stuff now?? I did before and got my head biten off. It is easier to just do it myself. Then it gets done the way I like it to be done. DH isn't as detail oriented as me. It was funny to hear him comment on BIL's vacuuming job a couple of weeks ago. He was telling me it would have to be done again, as BIL didn't move anything. Well, DH doesn't usually either! If DH vacuums, he usually just does the carpet and nothing else. We have lino and hardwood through the house with a few area rugs. Thanks honey.

Is your sister going to be living close to you when she comes? Same city? I love my sister, but I am glad she doesn't live close. Her kids would drive me crazy! She might too actually, but then I would likely drive her crazy too.

Keri, I don't think I have a feeling of resentment as much as a dreading of the season. I feel more defeated really, by my 'self', my body and my brain.

I feel mentally unprepared and all my stuff isn't done, so I am behind the eight ball. I am my own worst enemy when it comes to that kind of thing. Not done = bad me...could have worked harder.

I have to write my Christmas letter still. I am tempted to just blow it off this year, but I Always write one. If I do, I am considering including the m/c in it. There is a lead in from that to the renovation that screams write me. It isn't really a nice up thing to write, but if it was a death of a family member, we would include it. Maybe if I pass on the letter I can send them out faster and then I will have one less thing on my plate.

I picked up our family pictures last night...oh my gosh are there some good ones there! We have some darn cute kids if I do say so myself. Wanna see??

We weren't sure what was going to happen with my parents. There was a blizzard where they live yesterday. Our airport was without electricity this morning, I am not sure if it is back yet. The storm I told you about the other day was not the 3rd. It was last night. We have lots of outages. The boys are home from school today, no power. Trees are down all over the place. The winds were gusting up to 100km/hr. last night, some of the high winds were sustained. Before this last storm, our city anticipated the tree debris (fallen trees and branches) clean up would cost $250,000. That is only the city's cost, not including private residence costs.

Must go and do a little laundry folding, my parents are coming and I need to make the bed.

Talk later,
Micheline


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## Tan II

Awww, you guys !!! I'm no more worthy than you !

You are right, I am in a "good place" at the moment. I am feeling so much better and happier. I can't lie and say I always feel like that. There are times I feel sad, and have such sorrow in my heart. On the whole though, I am feeling great. I don't know about 'normal', but definately happy









I think it may be for many reasons, but mainly becasue of you guys. Being able to share my feelings, anxieties, sadness etc has been 'cleansing'. Everything that I have been bottling up and letting rot, has been able to come out. Thank you for letting me feel 'safe' to share with you, and 'detox'.

Mish and Keri, I hope I can help you through your hard times.

My sister is going to live in the same suburb as me (I hope !!). We are really close, and get along really well. I hope that will continue once she is living here. We haven't lived in the same country, let alone the same suburb for 5 years. And then things were different. She was newly married with no kids. Now she has 2 !
I hope our relationship would continue to be as strong and good.
We adore each other.

I'd love to see pics of the kids !

Keri, I would love to take you up on your offer ( for the photos). I will keep that in mind. I'm not ready to look at all the pics right now. One day though. I haven't done Gabriel's page yet. I got side tracked with other pages. Maybe it was on purpose. I find it emotional doing that page. I have to be in the right frame of mind.

I am also not a very good decision maker. I always 'um' and 'ah' about stuff, am unsure. Then when I do make a decision I sometimes doubt myself. There are times though that I make a decision straight away, and am happy with it.
It drives my dh mad !

I like your picture of my sister and myself. It sounds about right ! We get a long really well.
I told her a while ago that I was nervous of her coming here. What if we get along better long distance ? She thought I was insane !!!

Keri, I'm sorry christmas brings out such bad feelings for you. It must be really hard to think where you might have been in your life now.
I hope this time next year, everything is different.

BTW, thanks for the hannukah wishes !

Jamie had a birthday party this afternoon ! It was my friend's little girl's 3rd b-day. She invited Jamie. It was a fairy and super hero party. I found Tayga's superman dress-up from when he was 3. I put the t-shirt and cape on Jamie. It was a bit big, but did he look cute !!! He had fun with the big kids.
I had a funny thought. Gabriel would have been the same age.

Got to go and light my hannukah candles.

I hope you have a great weekend.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan, you are now our beacon of hope!

I do have some happy mixed in with life. But if I'm not dealing with the m/c burden, I'm dealing with The Family, which includes Mom's illness. Doing better with issue #1? Here comes issue #2!

So it is gruesome to wait to be happy. To wait until there is some resolution. That could be years, on either issue. And who knows what else could crop up in the meantime. I hereby resolve to locate some happiness, and stake my ground there! (Picture a flag, I'm sticking my flag in the joy...must design my own personal battle flag.)

For starters, I am going to keep drinking spiked eggnog. Hey, it's a start!

Mich, I'm with you on the Christmas letters. I don't usually do a letter, but write updates in the cards. Yeah, not this year. So I was considering a letter.

Herein lies the quandary. Do I make it happy? Talk about all the travels, which could come off as bragging...or do I make it real? For a lot of people, this is the only real contact, and updating about Mom could be kind of important. Do I take the opportunity to engage in minor activism, by mentioning the m/c's? This would take enormous effort, to engage in large scale exposure. Might as well include a naked photo of myself.







: But it's an opportunity, and I have harped on other threads about disclosure helping to eliminate the Universal Happy Pregnancy Myth.

But I personally get a little crabby when someone sends me a lovely card, and a too-honest letter. Did I have to hear about death and destruction at Christmas time? Not nice.

But this is my life. The m/c's have been an undeniably huge part of my life. Not the only thing. But large enough that they cast shadows over other parts of life. How do I not acknowledge that? It would be so false to leave it out.

Crap. I'm back to not making decisions. Someone make this one for me, please. Cards have to get done in the next 3 days.

Maybe I'll just include a holiday recipe.

Mich, how about a permanent place to keep a to-do list? I picture a chunk of drywall or wood, painted with chalkboard paint, framed. That would go with your kitchen colors, wouldn't it? Each day, write on the list what needs to be done to keep the household running that day. "I could use some help, would you pick something off the list to do?" Just an idea.

My DH watches me vacuum the furniture, but when he vacuums, doing the furniture just doesn't occur to him. Well, once I think. And for him to operate a vacuum, I pretty much have to be sick or in pain. That is rare.

Hmmph. I want a wife.

Speaking of, my own to-do list is astronomically huge today. I must hustle. As soon as I am done yakking.

Tan, it's okay to not tackle the scrapbook pages about Gabriel until you are ready. Work your way up to them. Of course, you have a deadline. Sometimes extrinsic motivation is okay, it forces you forward. Thinking about them gets you closer to doing them....

How are you with the notion that you would have had a 3 year old at your friend's daughter's party? Was it a passing thought, or is that the sort of thing that really gets you thinking?

Dress up birthday party, that is so fun! Jamie sounds adorable!

Mich, I am glad to hear you have survived that storm. It was a big bad one, I was wondering about all of you. I can't believe your power is on at all!

How about agate, chalcedony and bloodstone? That's some overlap from all of our lists. Should we each pick out our own initial charm for each of the completed pieces? I'm gonna get bossy here, watch out. Mich, how about you get the feet charms, I'll get some silver spacers (I'll send a photo to let you know what I'm talking about) and Tan, do you want to get the clasps?

Okay, I am waiting for input on the Christmas letter dilemma. Kindly offer your opinions, so as to get my butt out of this rut! Hopefully, the cards will be ready today (other people send photos of their kids, I send a photo of the dog. Can't decide if that's cute or pathetic....)















I'm done talking, and the vat of coffee is bone dry. Off to work!

You guys are the best!

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

This is a quick reply to your chritmas letter.

I think you should write a letter being honest, without going into too much detail.

Maybe something like ..... "This year has been a year filled with happiness and sadness. We were blessed with falling pregnant, but unfortunately lost them."

What do you think ? That way you are being honest without having to say too much. Without having to "put yourself out there".
I think it will also make people aware that it has happened more than once, that you are trying (I assume people are rude and nag you about having children) and that it has been hard and that you have suffered a loss.

If you want to say anything about your Mom, you can say that she hasn't been well, and pg (please g-d) she'll be ok soon.

Tell me what you think. I hope that was helpful.

I'll reply again later. Got to go and get dressed !!!

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan--

I really like how you phrased that, thanks for brainstorming on my behalf.

Lastnight DH and I had a nice long discussion about the potential Christmas letter, and how much or little we talk with people about the m/c's. DH thinks we shouldn't put anything too dark in the letter, although he is okay with some mention, like 'we are continuing to work on our family, and have hope things will work out' or something like that.

What he said that I liked was we should be renewed in our faith at this time of year, and should be looking forward instead of backward. Very philosophical, and very fitting. I think I'll do a very brief letter, large print, double spaced, and include that idea.

Mich, I think you expect too much from yourself. For instance, No Christmas Cookies does NOT= Bad Keri. I've never made cookies for the holiday...okay, maybe once, but they were Rum Balls, and completely for my own consumption. You can certainly choose not to do things, without it changing anything about your personal value. Scale back, preserve sanity=good you.

I used to hang a wreath on the door, and pretty beaded ornaments in each window. I used to decorate the kitchen and bathroom just a little. I used to decorate at work. Not this year. Don't care. Maybe next year.

Maybe the kids make a big difference? They expect certain things from you? But they are all boy children, doesn't the testosterone keep them from noticing details? I'm just basing that on personal experience.

So did your parents make it to your house? Bad timing on the icky weather. How long are they staying? And where is your SIL?

I hope the visits go well, and you have resolved the letter, etc. expectations, and you still have a little time to check in here! Tan, I'm already missing you while you are on vacation, but hope you have a wonderful time!

Hooray, Tayga's almost done with school! A long summer, beginning with a vacation, his aunt is moving here, you are all becoming citizens, then a new start at a new school! What an exciting time.

Okay, I'm really trying to make it to work earlier. My Dad has been massively patient with me, and it is time to reward that.

The letters will get done today, cards go out tomorrow. Wish me luck!









Keri


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## Mammax4

Hello!! no I'm not lost....

Keri, the division sounds like a plan. I will start to look for feet. (silver feet that is) I will look for my initial and what about the stones? How should we do that? What size are we going for? So many questions for someone who has being playing hookey for the last few days.

I like your list idea. I have a white board that will work just fine for that. Now to work myself up to writing things on it...

I know (really) that it is not bad me, but I am usually so organized and together. I suppose it is me beating myself up for not being together. (sort of along the lines of 'suck it up') I have still unrolled fudge balls in the fridge and my cards are on the table. You know what... I don't really care! I will send them out, I don't think I will include a letter. I will get back to letters when I feel like it. I don't think I would feel good about including information about the m/c in a letter and yet I don't think I could write one without it. I don't want to be a downer at Christmas and most people didn't know I was pregnant. So, that is my decision.

SIL is not coming out here this Christmas. She is being all pis$y about it, but Too bad!! Her excuses were that with my parents being here she couldn't come out then and it is too expensive to fly at Christmas. (should I mention she has flown out at Christmas every year that I can remember) So, she said she will come in January for a month. DH has the fun responsibility of telling her she won't be staying here that long. SIL has not returned our phone call from 10 days ago, she is pouting. DH said that she was really cranky the last time he spoke to her, but she didn't bring up not coming.

My parents are here. They made it in, although their trip to the airport wasn't good (lots of snow) and the power was out at the airport here in the am on Friday. My Dad leaves in the morning and Mom leaves Thursday am. We (Mom, Dad, DH and I) are going out for dinner tonight...without the kids. We have never done that before. BIL has been very chatty with my parents (Dad especially) so it will be nice for DH to be more in the picture. My Mom has mentioned she has seen DH giving BIL some nasty looks, I don't know if that is true or she is trying to start trouble...she reads what she will into things...sometimes way out of line. Could be real though as DH has even commented on how BIL is now following me around like a shadow. I am trying to keep a balance of allowing BIL a chance to off-load his junk while not being overwhelmed by all his stuff.

So, off I go... my parents took the boys out to lunch and then the Bug Zoo. (We let them skip the afternoon off school!) I am sure they are having a tonne of fun. I will check in later, but may not be regular posting for a day or two.

Tan...one more sleep...one more day of miss crabby teacher and then Freedom!!! I will let out a whoop for Tayga tomorrow.

Keri...hoochie mama is very cool. MIL very talented.

Have a great day.

Micheline

can you feel the manic pace that I am writing at?? trying to get done before the house gets all busy again.


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## Tan II

Hi K & M

1 More sleep to go !!!!! Yiiipppeeee !!
Tayga volenteered me to bake biscuits for the end of year party. How sweet that his proud of my baking ! I'm not really motivated to bake for his teacher and the school (even though it's for Tayga). I might buy some biscuits from the bakery instead. Better than sending a packet of biscuits !

Last night I went to a 'Robbie Williams' concert. It was such fun. There were 66 500 people there !!
DH stayed at home with the kids (his choice !), and I went with a few friends.

Mish, tell your sil to grow up !
How is it having your parents visiting ? The kids must be loving it.

I hope all your christmas shopping, preparations and card writing are coming togethr without too much stress !

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hey, crazy women!

I just needed to check 2 things:

1) Tan, cannot send card without address. You will be on vacation anyway, so lateness does not really matter! But I'm telling you, the card is extra cute!

2) Mich, I wrote a lame ass letter, which you are getting in with your extra cute card. It acknowledges that the year had it's ups and downs, and that we are hoping for a better 2007. So it's not extremely happy, but it isn't real honest either. I don't feel particularly good about it, nor will I lose any sleep over it. It's keeping the lines of communication open with people I don't normally talk with.

Hmm. I'm not familiar with Robbie Williams, but if 66500 people were there, I should know about him. I will educate myself. A girls' night out, that's so fun!

Mich, your Dad leaves tomorrow, your Mom on Thursday, why? Why different days? I figured they would stay through Christmas. Hope the all adult dinner goes well!

Is some trouble brewing with your DH and BIL? What is going on? From your perspective? Or, don't think about it, and drink another toddy. Analyze it after the holidays.

In the meanwhile, have a bowl of fudge! It sounds really good to me, anyways...

Beads: I would like to be in charge of the chalcedony, and will look for 6mm, along with spacers, and my initial charms. Game on!

My jewelry making aunt will be joining us for Christmas dinner, so I think I will talk with her about helping me with our jewelry. A decision, can you believe it?

Okay, I have to go finish cards, they are almost done.

One more day of school, hooray for Tayga! And a bug zoo, how much fun is that?

Talk to you soon!

Keri


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## Mammax4

: ....excuse me!

At long last, I have joined the ill masses that surround me. I sound like a squeeky toy today!

I thought I should catch up quick while I have a few minutes...

Tan-







:














Yeah!!! When you read this, school will be finished for the year...Wa-hoo! I am glad you enjoyed the concert. Did you go with a group of friends?

My Dad had to go back to work, and my Mom is going back to where her parents live for Christmas. My 'babiest' sister lives there too. (and my middle sister is 2 hrs away) The boys have had a great time with them. My Dad was sad to be leaving. The adult dinner was delicious! We went to a place that we had never been before. The table we had was between the beautifully decorated Christmas tree and a fireplace...such ambiance!

I am not sure what is going on with BIL and DH. I think that DH is a little put out by how BIL is taking some of 'his' time. This is counter acted by DH's desire to help out BIL. I spoke to DH about what might be up and DH did say that he would like to know there was a time frame for BIL to be living here. BIL has been dominating the visit with my parents too, so I think there is a little 'turf' stuff that may be going on.

Tan do you want to get Agate or Bloodstone? It doesn't matter to me which one I am to get.

How many stones do you think we need? Are we doing both the bracelet and the necklace now, or waiting for the necklace until later?

I have the week of Christmas off, so I will go and get the jewelry supplies then.

Still no cards out...some fudge balls rolled though! I will send some cardsw/ my Mom so at least some will be on time.

Bye for now...space being invaded...

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Tan, I'm sorry I didn't get on here in time to wish you a happy vacation...Happy Belated Vacation! I can't wait to hear all about it!

Mich, I'm sorry you are sick. That especially rotten around the holidays. Get well soon!

I hope things are settling down around the house.

No exit strategy for BIL has been established? I would think a real plan would help ease tension, especially if BIL is starting to step on toes. How long has he been there?

Okay, back to business. I think necklace and bracelets at the same time. A bracelet for me would be about 7", which is about 18mm. Forgive my spotty understanding of the metric system, please! Do you want beads as pendants on the necklace, or some beads threaded on the chain...I've been focused on the bracelet. I don't have a strong picture in my head about the necklace.

I must run. DH's hunting buddies will be showing up any minute and it is morning, I am not receiving guests. Must vanish.

Get better!

Keri


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## Mammax4

Good Morning!

Must drink coffee all day today. (I do that anyway...) I had to get up really early this morning to take my Mom to the airport. I had 3 hours sleep.

For the necklace, I like the teardrop shape stones. (can't remember what they are called) Maybe one teardrop in the middle and some beads on either side. Personally, I think I would find the fully beaded necklace too heavy. That being said, I would wear it whether it was heavy or light.

There is no plan for BIL staying here. It is open ended as he is in such a state right now. He would not do well on his own. We try to bolster his mood when he is down. We have put almost 15lbs on him since he has been here. Perhaps we will need to look at a time line, I don't think now is the time to do it. I think that once the divorce issues are finished, he will start in that direction on his own. He took only some of his clothes from the house and nothing else, so he wouldn't have anything to furnish a home with.

The woman that has been having spotting issues is still spotting. Her hormones are rising at the appropriate rate though. I hope she doesn't join us, but in the same breath, I don't really want to have to see her all the time as she progresses either. I feel like such a b*tch to say that.

I found out that my sister will be going with out any medication for her arthritis while she is pregnant. (if/when that happens) She is set for u/s in a couple weeks and egg insertion should take place the first week of January. Her pregnancy test will come up almost when I was due. I understand her drive to get pregnant, but she is going to be in so much pain and have radically decreased mobility I don't think it is worth it. Easier for me to say, I am not in her shoes.

Anyway, I guess I should move along...lots of crafting to do today! Hopefully keeping busy will help keep my eyes open.

Talk later,







Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi K & M

I'm still around ! Only going on vacation on 27th.
I haven't been around for the past few days becasue I have had a sinus headache from hell. Felt so lousy. THankfully it's eased up today.

We told Tayga that he is going to a new school (we got the confirmation yesterday). He is so happy. Poor kid.
Now he can enjoy his holidays and relax.

Bllodstone or agate ? Hhhmmmm. I like them both, but am leaning more towards agate. What do u think ?
I also picture a bracelet.

Mish, I'm sure it's hard hearing pregnancy talk from your sister. I'm sure you want to give her support, but you also don't want to hear it.
Wow, she's not going to take medication while pregnant. I suppose you do what you have to do. I'm sure she sees it as a small sacrifice in return for what she'll (hopefully) receive.

Keri, how are you feeling ?

I'm sure it is hard for both of you knowing your due date is approaching.









Got to go and play racing games now !!

Chat later
Tan


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## Mammax4

Hello T & K

So, to clarify... for the jewelry...

Tan - Agate & clasps + 3x 'T'
Keri - Chalcedony & spacers + 3x 'K'
Me - Bloodstone & feet charms + 3x 'M'

stone size 6mm.

Are we 'freestyling' the initials?

Keri how did you measure your wrist? Did you measure the size that you would wear the bracelet, or how big your wrist is?

We should figure out the necklace too, so we can get all supplies in one fell swoop.

Tan, I am so glad that you were able to get Tayga into the new school. Nice to have the confirmation so soon. I bet his holiday will be that much better knowing he will be with his other friends and away from Ms. Crankyteacher. What a nice thing to happen before you go away. Sorry to hear you are not well.

Keri, watch out...it's catching! Don't sit too close to the screen.

Only one more day of work before holidays!!! Yeah!

Talk to you later.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Good morning/evening!

Sorry, Tan, I thought you were heading out the same day Tayga finished school. I don't know where I got my wires crossed. Me, confused? Nooooo..

Hooray! School year is done, new school is a lock, boy is happy, Mom is relieved! That must be an enormous weight lifted.

I'm sending healthy vibes to both of you ))))))))))

Tan, thanks for asking how I'm feeling. I'm okay. Woke up this morning thinking about the last baby I lost....that doesn't happen so often, that it's the first thought right off the bat. It's because I need to get my MIL a birthday gift, and her birthday was my due date. I try not to dwell on it. It just is.

I'm starting to get antsy about ttc again.

I'm tired, and can't seem to get caught up on sleep. You'd be so proud, I went to bed early last night, no drowsing on the couch, no reading in bed.

But overall, my head is fairly calm. My Dad is going to start getting things ready to take Mom to the Mayo Clinic (where the tough, undiagnosable cases go). So that eases my mind a bit, that her care will be placed in the hands of the foremost researchers.

Tonight we are getting together with our godson's parents to eat pizza and exchange gifts--we haven't seen them in over a month. Busy schedules, and my aunt's funeral. I'm looking forward to it. Miss the baby, will hold him continually. May wear my hair down, he has such fun pulling on it!

Bracelets--I measured loosely around my wrist with a dressmakers tape. I could have measured a bracelet, but that would have been 10 more steps!

The outline sounds good. I thought we would freestyle the intial charms, so that would reflect our personalities a bit. I may also add another charm, if that's okay...

Teardrop would be good for the necklace, and I agree about not beading it too heavily. Why don't you choose which stone holds the most significance to you, and we can get the teardrop in that, and flank the teardrop with a couple of each of the other stones on each side? Now I can picture it!

Mich, it sounds like your BIL could use some counseling, he sounds pretty fragile. Hmm. He needs an MDC type board for divorced guys. And maybe some antidepressants, there I go pushing meds again.

What are you crafting? Do spill the details, I'd like to live vicariously through whatever you are doing!

And don't feel like a bitch, I have similar thoughts at times. It's not that I want people to go through what I have, it's that statistically speaking, I should have more company. Being surrounded by success when I have failed is kinda lonely. Is that bitter? I try to avoid bitterness.

But I don't feel lonely on this board. Sometimes I feel like one of the 'lucky' ones, that my losses have been so early. I would think that your attachment to a child grows exponentially, the more time they spend inside of you.

Okay, I don't want to talk about that anymore. Suppress, suppress.

Your sister's timing is pretty wretched, isn't it? Does she have kids? I hear really good things about acupuncture and RA...or was it osteoarthritis? Dang, don't quote me on anything. Anyhow. Share your angst here, I completely get it.

So what's in your heads, friends? We all have been talking a lot about what we are doing, instead of HOW we are doing.

Gotta run. Last minute Christmas cards to send, have to find a birthday card, there was something else I had to remember....








just because

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Friends

Merry Christmas. I hope you have a wonderful day with family and friends. Did you get nice pressies ?

Mish & Keri how are you feeling ?

Keri, I hope the clinic will help your mom, and give you all some hope. I'm sure it is tough for your dad to take her there.

Did you have fun with your godson ?

We are going on holiday tomorrow !!! YAY ! We brought it forward a day. We'll stop off along the way, instead of driving 8 hours straight.
We are all so excited. It's going to be such fun.

We're busy tidying the house, so we don't have to come back and do it !! Doing last minute washing. Packing etc !

I'll be back on 3 January. I hope you have a great New Year. Doing anything special ?

I'll miss you. I hope you manage to have a good and happy time. We'll have to have a BIG catch up when I'm back.

Happy New Year !







Let's celebrate to a new year filled with happy things.

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan, thanks for the holiday wishes, that was so nice!

The visit with the godson and our friends was awesome. It was nice to spend some time chatting, holding the baby, drinking wine, laughing.

I am too tired to know how I am. Cleaned frenetically on Saturday, did food prep and more cleaning yesterday, had people over for C/Eve, now I need to get rolling to go to Mom and Dad's, where we are cooking. Really need more sleep.

Have a fabulous vacation! It sounds like you have a lot of fun in store, I can't wait to hear all about it when you get back! You know you will be missed here.

Happy New Year to you, too!

Keri


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## Mammax4

Tan, thanks for the good wishes. Have a safe journey and lots of fun! We will miss you while you are gone. Happy New Year (because I won't be able to tell you later...)

Keri, I hope the dinner went well at your parents house. How many were there?

We decided to have an easy night tonight. We are going to have Christmas dinner tomorrow night. That way we can enjoy the day without rushing to cook the full spread. We are going to have fingerfood and watch a movie. I am glad it worked out that way in advance. I don't think I would be up to cooking a full meal today. My health is better, my heart and self is another story all together.

I was getting ready this morning and got some hair stuff out of a box that I haven't used in a long time....inside the box was my positive pregnancy test. I had put it in there when I first took it and had forgotten about it. It really rocked my world. I am sitting here trying really hard to keep it together. AF showed her ugly self today too.... man talk about being kicked when I am down.

I can hardly breathe, and my sister is going to start down her path in two days... I need to keep it in check for her....it is such a sharp pain right now...

Time to reel it in...

I will talk to you later.

Micheline







:


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## lolalapcat

Oh, Mich, I'm so sorry. I'm crying with you, dear. That's not the sort of thing you want to stumble across, be reminded of when you aren't expecting it.

I wish I could make it better, but I don't know what to do.

Just remember that the pain you feel is part of what makes you a wonderful mother. That you loved that little baby so intensely is a measure of your devotion. If you didn't miss that child of yours, you wouldn't be who you are. And who you are is a beautiful soul, a wonderful friend, and obviously a dedicated mother.

And you know as well as I do, there are always tears that need to be cried, just waiting for an opportunity. Perhaps this will wash away some of the hurting, force you to let go of some of the pent up pain.

I wanted to share a meditation, but thought it was a bit heavy for the holidays. Dummy me, the holidays are heavy for us anyway. If I had shared it earlier, maybe it could have brought you some comfort. It is late, but here it is:

Again at Christmas did we weave
The holly round the Christmas hearth;
The silent snow possess'd the earth,
And calmly fell our Christmas-eve.

The yule-log sparkled keen with frost,
No wing of wind the region swept,
But over all things brooding slept
The quiet sense of something lost.

Alfred Tennyson

It is a giant dogpile on you right now, the quiet sense of something lost, the impending due date, your sister embarking on a journey you should be on.

Let me know how I can help ease your burden.








Wishing you peace tonight, sister of my heart, and that sleep will help alleviate your pain.

I'm keeping you in my heart, in my prayers. I'll check in tomorrow.

K


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## lolalapcat

Meditation:

Time does restore to us our quiet joy in the spiritual presence of those we love, so that we learn to remember without pain, and to speak without choking up with tears. But through all our lives we will be subject to sudden small reminders which will bring all the old loss back overwhelmingly. ---Elizabeth Watson

Thinking of you today. I hope a quiet day with your family eases the hurt in your heart.


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## Mammax4

Keri,







Thank you my Friend.









I hope you are doing alright. I am feeling less off kilter now. Christmas day was a little rocky. Our dinner on Boxing day was wonderful. I cooked turkey, ham and the usual type trimmings. BIL's son was there with us too, so our boys had a great visit with their cousin. We have decided to make Boxing day our official turkey dinner day. It is much more relaxing not to have to rush the present opening. (or at least feel like it is being rushed)

I am finally on the other side of the bug I caught last week. DH is in the midst of it now.... nothing like sharing.

DH and I had a talk on Boxing day. It turns out the 'non-loss' issue may not be quite as non as he (or I) had thought. He said he couldn't help but think how far along I would have been and how it would have changed the family if the pregnancy would have continued. I think he has come to realize the miscarriage as a loss. It was interesting to me that he comforted me more when I was sad about finding the positive test than he did at the time of the m/c. Perhaps I let him comfort me this time. I know I held him off when it happened.

My plan is to go downtown for the beads tomorrow. One thing that wasn't discussed was what the bracelets will be strung on. (or maybe I missed that?) I was thinking I will pick up a necklace chain too.

How did your talk with your Aunt go? Were you able to have some time to really talk to her?

When does your Mom go to the Mayo Clinic? How did she hold up with all the activity over Christmas? How did you hold up? How are You doing? (not what, but how...really?)

Nosey-ness.....
Your 'antsy-ness' is it fear of another loss, or is it that you have some measure of hope (being proactive and better prepared) and that scares you? How much longer until your appointment?

Thank you very much for both of the meditations. I copied the Elizabeth Watson one and will do something with it. I haven't decided yet quite what I will do, but something, maybe a bookmark.

I couldn't bring myself to throw the test away. Silly. Who wants a stick with urine hanging around in their cupboard? Apparently I do. It is the only 'thing' aside from a sore heart that I have. Maybe one day I will throw it out, but not today.

Well, I think I am going to light a fire now. I have been cold to the core for the last few days. It was snowing here yesterday morning, not for long and only little flakes. (darn it!) I bought some new snow sliders for the boys in hopes that we will see some more before they go back to school.

Do you have any plans for New Years?

I will check in later.
Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Micheline, it's nice to hear from you! I figured you were busy, busy, busy.

Ham AND turkey? That's a feast!

I survived our Christmas. My Mom was in rare form, bossy, controlling, demanding, petulant. She can't stand for long, and doesn't trust other adults to cook and set a table.







: DH deserves a medal; when Dad and Brother couldn't take any more of Mom, DH jumped in and started asking for Mom's advice, bringing her cups of coffee, he even told a couple of jokes.

Me? I was on my feet all day, and drank a lot. Didn't get a chance to talk to my Aunt...there were always lots of people around, and I didn't want it to be a round table discussion. I think I'll invite Aunt and Uncle to dinner at my house, and talk with her.

I told my Dad that I won't do that again, help cook the big family dinner at their house. Mom doesn't act that way at my house!

sigh. Another Christmas gone. It should be so much....sweeter than that.

I'm so glad you had a talk with your DH and really connected...I couldn't help but think he was in denial about the m/c. So much has probably gone on in his head, and he just kept pushing it back, poor guy.

It is good you have your partner by your side for this now. That makes a huge difference. This burden in not yours alone. I mean, Tan and I can help, but your DH is so much more important....

And as far as pushing him away, isn't it amazing what we do without really realizing it? And what grief causes us to do? Maybe it's an instinct of self preservation.

It isn't silly to keep the positive test, it's proof that your baby existed. I have nothing from my first two pregnancies but doctor's records. I wish I had something tangible. Baby 3, I have the ultrasound photos, just a faint outline, and a bright spot that was his/her little beating heart. They are in the 'Miscarriage' file, and I need to move them out of there, but don't know what to do with them.

Wow, talking about that, I am no longer antsy about ttc!

It's just time, though. Next week I will make an appointment with the doctor who will help interpret all of the charting, and can prescribe a course of action. I feel almost strong enough to do this again. And cripes, I'm getting older! The appointment with the 'expert' is Feb. 6. We will follow the recommendation of the other dr. as to whether we should wait to ttc for the expert appointment.

And DH and I want a child so badly, it's getting harder to be around our godson again. He is so beautiful, I love him so much, I want so much to have that for us. Maybe I'm ready to ttc again to assuage this yearning.

So that's our New Year's Eve plans, to get together with our friends, spend more time with the godson, play board games and eat soup. Pretty wholesome! What are your plans? I hope Tan and family watch fireworks from the beach on the Eve!

We'll string the bracelets on wire, I'll get that here. I guess it makes sense to find a chain there, then the length and style will be what you want. I hadn't even thought of that! Maybe THIS weekend I will go bead shopping...

I hope you get some snow! It is raining here today, and may turn to snow this weekend. Bring it on, I'm ready!

I'm glad you are doing better. But unload here if things are still on your mind. Not that I'm pushing you, but I am, that's my job.

Gotta run, the day looms large. I hope your DH gets to feeling better soon.

Keri


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## Mammax4

Keri,

I am sorry your Mom was difficult to deal with. Do you think it was because she feels she has no control? It sounds (from the outside looking in) like she was perhaps angry and scared...angry that she couldn't do those things herself, scared she doesn't know what is going on. It would be more in her face that her health had changed so drastically in a situation like that. Lack of control can bring out the control freak in all of us...she could at least control what was going on in her kitchen... Just my 2 pennies...

Good for your DH for stepping in!

I finally wrote my Christmas letter. I was (as you know) having a hard time not including a reference to our m/c, but was unsure how to put it in there. I hadn't asked DH about his thoughts on it either and was hesitant to do so for fear of his response. Last night I wrote it and DH provided some thoughts on how to phrase the miscarriage part. I felt free to include it then, his phrasing and absolute comfort with that being part of the letter was good.

New Years will be pretty wholesome here too. We may invite some friends over. For the past few years, we have spent it with our old neighbors, so we may do that again.

Watching the fireworks from the beach in Australia...wouldn't that be a New Years!! Tan, I hope you have a good one!

My sister is having her u/s this morning. She will phone me tonight to update me on the plan. I will keep a stiff upper lip and have my focus on her when she calls. Just keep swimming...just keep swimming....

Is a chain the plan for the necklace? or were you thinking something else?

I have to go and have some lab work done. I best go and do that because I need to not eat or drink anything before I have the blood drawn. Coffee!!!

Talk to you later...

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hey, Mich!

You have such a considerate perspective on my Mom's situation....but she has always been pretty controlling and demanding. She was her usual self, in overdrive on Christmas. Except now she expects us to wait on her, and she's not particularly polite or nice about it...and she can still get herself a glass of water. She would just rather have someone do it for her. Ugh.

I want her to stay as independent as possible, for as long as possible. She is perfectly comfortable giving up her independence without a fight. It is maddening. I do not understand her. But then, I rarely have. She is a different creature than I am.

My Dad is the one pushing for Mayo, after they get back from the vacation they are on (Mom fell in the airport---carpet). Mom doesn't want to go to any more doctors. Is she more scared of what they may say or do than she is of the progressive disability?

It's unpleasant, from all sides. I will try to be more understanding. But I will NOT carry her purse for her, while she can still carry it herself!

You are so much braver than I. I really want to read your Christmas letter. Your DH is earning millions of Good Husband points from me! Do you feel like you have turned a corner in the relationship?

How is his stomach issue, btw?

I'm sorry you are being tortured by your sister's impending probable pregnancy. In my experience, it will get easier to handle when the child is a few months old. Does that help? Probably not, but I'm not gonna lie to you. It's hard to be on the sidelines when you want to be in the game.

Be completely supportive on the phone with her, then come here and tell us how you really feel. You have seen some of the uglier sides of me here...it keeps the ugly from showing up IRL.

I already have a baby gift bought for our friends' baby, who is due to arrive a couple weeks after ours was supposed to. Even though I am dying of envy (yes, one of the 7 deadlies) I am still happy for them. My brain gets tired, trying to manage all the facets of life.










I guess I was thinking of something that some of the beads could be threaded on, and I'm not sure if chain will work...but what else would you use, if you didn't want to bead the whole thing? Must research. Or do you want a chain, with beads attached pendant style only?

Okay, I'm playing hookie from work, but now I'm actually going to leave work. I want my long weekend to start, and that cat hair ain't vacuuming itself up!








It's nice to have you back, I missed you!

Keri


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## Mammax4

Keri,

It is nice to be back!







Back here...back in a better head space... one day I will react to my bad head space more quickly and get on here... it never fails to get me up again when I am down. Must sticky note that somewhere...

Beads are an issue for me... no one in the city has bloodstone in 6mm. There is one place that has them in 8mm and 10mm, but I think that is too big. The other stones I am considering are Carnelian and (red or pink) Tourmaline. (see greenlees for meanings) Either that or we could use a smaller number of 8mm bloodstone beads?? What are your thoughts?? Tan, I wish you were here to help!!

I will skip the chain and see what we can come up with. I do like the invisible stuff that makes the necklace look like the charm/stone is just there. (it is kind of like fishing line) I will talk to the people in the bead store and see what they suggest for necklace stuff.

I bought pieces of moonstone, bloodstone and Botswana agate today. They are not for jewelry, but will be the start of a collection. I also bought strings of blue lace agate and pink quartz. They are not beads, but are like coral...all different shapes. They are for beading...don't know what they will make yet.

Mother ~ Daughter relationships can be difficult. I know with my Step, we are polar opposites and have a hard time at times. I am sorry your Mom was in overdrive...that is not a pleasant situation to be around. I am sorry she is so willing to give up her independence. That is no doubt a difficult thing to watch. Do you think she is giving in because she is afraid? or does she like being catered to and having alot of attention? (not meant to be nasty there.) My considerate perspective comes from the benefit of no baggage! I am sure you could put a positive spin on some of my family members for me too!

I do feel like a corner has been turned. I have been looking at him and really seeing him lately. I am still concerned about his long term health. He has started to lose weight and I have bad things that pop into my head with regards to that. He does seem to be more prone to sick days than before too which doesn't help.

Good for you for getting the baby gift. That is one of the hardest areas for me to go. They seem to be everywhere. Even the shoe stores have cute baby shoes.

I was talking to DH about my take on all the pregnancies that are/will be around me in the near future...it was an interesting conversation. He was pretty on the spot in terms of the up and down aspects of what I can expect to feel. Funny how turning the corner makes you tune in more...and makes you more open to what they have to say. I don't think I will get the same understanding from him that I will from the two of you, but I know now that I could talk to him about it. (that's good!)

I must go and bathe Will. I will check in again later. Let me know your thoughts on the stone issue. I would like to pick up what I need this weekend and get it in the mail to you. I was thinking if I can do it this weekend, I will put your card in the box as well. (no pressure!!)

Talk to you later.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Mich--just a quick note! I may be bead shopping today (it's DH's birthday, so we are mostly doing what he wants!) and I will look at the different sizes. I think some variation in bead sizes could be very attractive, but I haven't seen 8mm in person. Although I just looked at my measuring tape, and that should be okay. I'll know more later!

Tourmaline is very attractive to me, meaning wise. Carnelian would be good too.

I'll talk more later, probably tomorrow, as DH has today all planned out. Did your sister call with the u/s update? How are you handling things?

I've got to attack the day, DH awaits!

Keri

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of varying sizes of beads. Let me know what you decide on, this is fun!


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## Mammax4

Quick update...

I didn't get to the bead store this weekend...too much lazing about! I will get there this coming weekend.

I spoke to my sister, her u/s looked good, she is scheduled for this Wed. I tried not to let my green eyed monster show through in my voice. I really do hope it goes well for her. I know it is going to make me crazy to be part of this. I know I need to put that aside and be there for her. I can't let my own sadness take our good relationship away. So, be forewarned.... I may need a good rant or two.

I haven't seen the other pg person for the last week, I have one more week to go and then it will again be a daily event. (heavy sigh...)

I hope you both had a great New Years. Ours was nice and quiet.

Talk to you later...all this lazing about means I need to fold all the laundry I have been doing today... poor planning on my part...

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hello, Mich!

Back before I found this forum, I did lots of random searching on the topic of miscarriage. And then, as things progressed, I did lots of internet searching on multiple miscarriages.

Something I found was a discussion via columns in Slate magazine, between two women who had m/c's and were reviewing a book on m/c's. Their discussion was one of the best things I have read...

http://www.slate.com/id/2077127/entry/2077168/

One of the things these two women said was, they weren't really ever better about their m/c's until they were carrying another child. They were both pregnant at the time they did the book review.

I think about that a lot. And have thought about it a lot in relation to you, and your impending hysterectomy.

It's even easier for me NOT to think of where I would be, if any of my pregnancies had been successful, since I have lost 3. In it's own way, that makes it easier. I have to sort out where the babies might have been, how old...I have to do the math. It's not automatic, like it is for you. (Although #3 does loom large these days.)

Blahblahblah. What I'm trying to convey is that you have been handed a burden, and that is why you are dealing with the green eyed monster. It is part of a m/c, the envy. And I don't have any idea how to make it better for you.

Rant away, my friend. You are doing well, that your sister is talking to you about all her pregnancy stuff. At least by my standards...I try not to let the m/c's interfere with relationships. Although they have.

Unload here. I wish I had known about this place when my best friend was pregnant, it would have helped so much!

Ugh. My parents get back from their trip today, I have enjoyed not thinking about my Mom's condition while they have been gone. Reality returns!

Roads were bad, so DH and I stayed home for New Year's Eve. We spent all weekend together, it was nice. Yesterday we watched college football--both our teams lost! Well, there's always next season.

Meditation:
The mind has a dumb sense of vast loss---that is all. It will take mind and memory months and possibly years to gather the details and thus learn and know the whole extent of the loss. Mark Twain










Keri

Tan, I'm ready to have you back! Hope you are having fun, fun, fun!


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## Mammax4

Keri and Tan,

Tan, welcome home!! I was thinking that you would be home tomorrow, forgetting that infact it is tomorrow already in Australia. I hope your holiday was lots of fun. I too look forward to your return.

Poor Keri has had to deal with my craziness all by herself this past week.









Keri, I read the conversation from the link you sent. It makes me want to read the book they are referencing. I can totally relate to not being okay again until being the other side of another pregnancy, with a healthy baby in my arms. I (we) all lack the innocence we had prior to our losses. I don't know if I would be better, but from this side of things, with the m/c and a hysterectomy looming...in my head it seems like I would be. I know I will always have some lingering issues having my fertility end in such a negative way.

My other pregnant person unfortunately had a miscarriage this weekend. She called me today and told me. I feel awful for her, but I feel worse for the relief I feel at not having to see her growing belly everyday. I don't like responding to others happiness in such a negative way. It is not who I am...or at least who I was. It is not that I am not happy for them, it is that I am mad/sad it is not me.

My ability to quote the where I would have been, gestationally, has only recently come to me. There was a time where I couldn't have told you how far along I 'should' have been. Being so close to the EDD now, it is easy to ballpark where it would have been.

I hope things went well at work today. Perhaps the Mayo Clinic can figure out what is going on and help stop/regress the progression of what ever is causing this.

I like the meditation.

Off to make dinner now. I will catch up later.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hello Friends !!!!!!

I'm back ! We got in about an hour ago !

We had a great time. The weather was crap. We only had 2 beach days. The rest were raining or cold







: At first we were upset about it, even considering coming home. Then I gave the family a talking to !! I told them that we can make the best of what we have and still enjoy our holiday. Which is what we did ! HAving the 2 beach days def made a difference. All in all it was a GREAT holiday at a beautiful place.
Yes, we did watch fireworks on the beach on NYE. It was amazing !

I'm glad to read that you both are doing ok. Happy New Year, wishing you both a good year ahead, filled with health and happiness and lots of good things.

I have to go and organise my family and get back into the swing of things !!

I'll check in after I have done that all, I just wanted to say Hi and that I missed you.

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan, I'm glad your vacation was great! Hooray, fireworks on the beach on NYE, just like we were picturing! OH, we can read your mind now. Watch out!

I've had rainy vacation days force me to go see things I would have otherwise missed. I want to hear stories!

We missed you too. It is so good to have you back! I wish you the very best the New Year has to offer!

Mich, I think I get it. It's not that you are happy that your friend miscarried, it's that you are happy you are not alone. If miscarriages are so darned common, why the hell am I so alone? (Not here, IRL). The more isolated I feel, the more I feel like an anomaly, someone with extraordianarily bad luck, broken, punished, flawed.

At least that's where my head has been. Our friends who are due in Feb--they are in their 40's, with not a single m/c and 2 babies. What the hell? How do they defy the odds, why are they so lucky? Why aren't they keeping me company?

End of righteous indignation. Oh, I reread the above and I sound kinda psycho. I could edit, but that wouldn't be very honest of me.

I'm sorry your friend miscarried. I am relieved you are not alone. It takes a lot to confess what you truly feel--while it isn't the prettiest thing (I'm there too, it's pot calling kettle) it can only be resolved if we figure out what is actually going on in our heads. Good job, brave woman!

It is part of why I am now ready to get this ttc over with...if we m/c again, it is pretty much closing the door on my fertility. That is too big to wrap my head around. I want it over with. And I am sorry you HAVE to face that, it is a negative end to a part of you.

"Poor Keri". Poor Mich is more like it, I am the crazy one!







:

I'm glad you read the linked info. It really helped me to read their conversation (a copy is printed, and in my "M/C" file). I'm too scared to read the book they were reviewing. Let me know how you find it, maybe I'll do it if you do. I've thought about starting a new thread with that link in it, just in case it might resonate with other people too. What do you think?

DH did recon at a bead store in the Big City yesterday. Woohoo, it overwhelmed him! I'm planning on going there Saturday, with one of my friends. They have free classes, so I may soak in some information (not Sat, we have other shopping planned---it's me time!).

Kindly measure a bracelet of yours (preferably the type with a toggle clasp, if possible) so I can start making random jewelry for both of you! I need to practice for the 'real thing'.

Parents got back late last night--their original flight was canceled due to weather. I'm gonna go see what's going on in that front.








Thanks for being here!

Keri


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## Mammax4

Amigos-

Glad you had the New Years on the Beach Tan. Sorry it rained so much while you were there. Did you take advantage of other sites due to the weather?

Keri, it is a hard thing for me to explain. I (unfortunately) know a lot of people that have struggled with m/c's. I was a late joiner to a good size group here. One of my gf's has had 7 or 8 m/c's, in addition to three term deliveries. I think for me it is too much a reminder of what I failed to do, of what I will not do again...no chance to 'redeem' myself. At this point, my utopia would be no new babies or pregnant women around me EVER. (at least for the near future anyway) It is the knife in the gut, and the green-eyed monster that cause me to not want gestation around me. I know I need to get on with that...it will come.

I will be over the moon (for her) if my sister's stuff works this time. I will keep the green-eyed monster at bay, I will bawl like a baby from time to time and I will snuggle my new niece(s)/nephew(s) when we are together at Christmas time next year. (that's the plan...we all go to Mom and Dad's new house)

I can honestly say that there are only two people that I don't think I would react to in other than a positive way. I would shed tears, but not for me...they would be happy tears for the realization of a desire so great it can make us crazy at times.

I think that a new link to the one you posted is a spectacular idea. I imagine the replies would be numerous.

I will have to do a little searching... I was reading some of the reference books I have re:m/c. There was something about how a m/c is the pregnancy that never ends. I thought that was an interesting view. I will try and see if the actual phrasing is more eloquent than that and let you know.

I went bead scouting tonight, no luck. One thing that I realized looking at your bracelets was I have had such a problem because I wasn't using the right clasp. I was trying to do multiple strands on one hole, it looks much better with one hole per strand. Thanks for the epiphany!

I don't have any bracelets, so I will have to make one for myself and get the measurement to you. The bead place I went to close to Christmas was great, I can even make the pieces on site so I would have expert help when I need it.

I am going to go now... oh wait.... I may have some surgery news for you tomorrow. I called to make an appointment w/ the gyne. and was joking about who I would need to bribe to get a date that wasn't 6 mos from now. 10 mins after making the appointment, she called me and said the hospital had just offered them an extra day in the OR...and she immediately thought of me. (squeeky wheel here) So, I said okay...(thinking...holy crap! I think I am going to throw up now...hot, sweaty...gonna be ill...)

I called my GP for a pre-op appt. When I got off the phone, G called and said...hold off on making the Dr appt, the hospital just called and they may not have the time. (AHHH!!!) G will let me know tomorrow. If that date doesn't work, she said she knows of some other times that might work. Raspberry fudge balls strike again! I told her I was going to bring her in some. (doesn't hurt to butter up the gal in charge of getting me where I need to go) and it was really nice that she thought of me!

Talk soon,
Micheline


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## Tan II

Thanks for such a great welcome back ! It's nice to feel missed.

Mish, it sounds like you are having ups and downs with your appointment. How is your head ? I would imagine the "it's on, it's off" would be screwing with your head. I hope it works out soon.

Keri, thanks for the christmas card. I love the pic ! So cute. Your letter was perfect too. You said what you needed to, without saying too much.

I love the pic of the bracelets. Wow, you're creative








Please tell me what I need to get. I'm not sure what I am meant to contribute. I found a sweet bead shop on holiday. I stood looking at everything trying to remember what I was supposed to get !

Mish, I think in time you will have made peace with the green-eyed monster. You're a fantastic mother and wife, and you "redeem" yourself in so many other ways. The hard part is getting to that point in time where you have made your peace.

Keri, how are you feeling ? 6 Feb is not too far away. You scared/nervous/excited ? My fingers are crossed for you. Being the eternal optimist that I am, I am hoping it will all be in your favour. Having experienced life's nasty twists, I also know things don't always go as planned. Good luck. What ever is the right path for you, I hope you walk down it.

Keri, how is your mom ?

My sister is arriving in 3 weeks time. I am nervous for her. I know what it's like - the build-up to leaving. It's horrible. Having to say goodbye to those u love and everything you know. It's easier for her though, knowing she is coming to me (as against to coming to no-one), and knowing why she is doing it. For her family and her own safety, and a better quality life.
Hopefully my brother will follow soon.

I should be more excited about her coming, but I feel quiet flat. I feel flat in general. Although I have just come back from holiday, I am tired. I feel like I need a holiday ! Although it was relaxing, it wasn't. It has also been so hot, which is wiping me out. I also haven't really been sleeping so well.
Moan, moan, moan.

DH says he is worried about me because I'm not like I used to be. Full of energy and happy and a different person. Ye, he has a point. I do feel a bit .... flat.

Maybe things will change when my sister is here. I can't rely on her for my life to change. Maybe I'm just having a crisis

DH has decided that he wants to take up scuba diving. We were chatting last night how he was saying that we are young, but we are old. Meaning, we are young, but we act like we are old farts. Boring.
Last night I had an idea that maybe I'd get into bike riding and do a race or something. Found some info that there is a 30km bike ride in feb to raise money. Thinking about asking a friend if she wants to do it with me. Part of me thinks "why not". Another part thinks "am I mad, I haven't ridden a bike in absolute years".
DH bought me a bike a few months ago. The idea was for all of us to go riding together (we'd get a seat on my bike for Jamie). It hasn't happened yet, but that is the plan !

*sigh*. I just want to feel like I make a difference, and not fade into life. Does any of this make sense ?

I'm meant to be all relaxed and happy and in summer holiday mode, not morbid.

Going to read for a while before going to sleep.

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Ugh, it's morning again. Have you ever thought about the morning/mourning connection? I am such a night person.

Mich, I totally missed it with you, sorry. I didn't realize you knew so many others who had miscarried. Totally different perspective.

When DH and I were shopping we were SURROUNDED by pregnant women and babies...at a freaking sporting goods store. I commented to DH and he agreed, it was as though we were being stalked. I don't know if we will ever get over the 'gestation aversion'....and of course, mine extends to children also. Tan, didn't you say you still have some issues like this?

I hope your surgery schedule gets settled down, and you are okay with it. That would be extremely nerve wracking to have it done when you aren't quite ready! The power of the raspberry fudge (and being nice to people) is not to be underestimated, apparently.

Can they do the hysterectomy laparascopically? What type of surgery is it, how long does it take, what's the recovery time....wish I could be there to hold your hand before, and take care of you after.

Tan, it's tough to get the brain to take a vacation. And I am always exhausted after traveling, too!

Do the bike ride! Just jump in, ride around the block a couple of times and it will all come back to you. Good for you, your marriage, your family...

I understand about not wanting to fade into life. I used to be much more of a participant, now I feel like a bystander. Damn the distance! I want to do the bike ride with you!

What were you like when you were Happy Tan? What was your life like? What has changed? I know the obvious things, of course. I guess I'm wondering about how you used to participate in life.

For example, I used to go out dancing most weekends, roller blade on the bike trails, go shopping with friends more often, read more.....no wonder I'm such a boring person now. But then I married the guy with the bad knee, moved out of the city with the bike trails and my friends, and got a house that requires lots of maintenance. Must change life.

Feedback, I need feedback!

Tan, agate is your stone, unless you want to get something else. As far as I am concerned, get something you can find, and get something that resonates with you...Mich, I know you've been having issue finding the bloodstone. Replace it...the meaning will still be there. Also Tan, if you want to pick up the clasps...I like the toggles, because I can get them on and off by myself, but you are in charge!

Thanks for the compliment, Tan...I had a lot of fun making the bracelets. I could easily get obsessed! I've picked out some 'healing' stones, I'm going to make a bracelet for my Mom.

She's...okay. Thanks for asking. A little more prone to falling. In good spirits, all the evil from the holiday seems to have left her for the moment. Dad is still thinking about Mayo, he needs a couple of days to decompress from their trip.

And yes, I am getting anxious for the Feb 6 appointment. Now that we have some documented evidence of a problem, I want to know what a doctor says about correcting it.

Mich, I'll check in later to see what you found out about the appointment. And Tan, I'll be looking for more discussion on why you feel the way you do....no pressure, of course!

Have a good day/night, friends!

Keri


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## Mammax4

Well...I got the call from the gyne's office today. It is a go. I have 3 weeks from today until surgery. (







: ) Jan. 25 is my date. I guess it beats waiting 4-6 months, I am not sure. It will be better to be done with the symptoms I have, and yet I keep this delusional hope in my head that DH will suddenly change his mind and I will no longer be able to carry a child. I absolutely positively know he is done. There is no changing that. I will have to take the next few weeks to get my head around what I am doing and hope to be a little more at peace with my reality. I am hoping to have a noticable positive change in my day to day stuff, so it seems worth having had the hyster. I am concerned about complications, but have to go in with a positive state of mind. I was told to count on 4 days in the hospital when I was given my date. I don't think I have ever spent 4 days in hospital before...that will be a challenge. Or not, perhaps I will be a doped up on pain meds. Most info I have read indicates you get a pump to self medicate. Sounds like a fun time doesn't it?

Tan, I too think you should hop on the bike an go for a spin. It does sound a bit like depression to me (tired and flat). Would you be able to talk to your Dr? Do you think having your sister come will help? I think I understand the wanting to have meant something....to give back or make a difference in some way or to someone. (trust me, you do that here) The feeling of good, from helping, would counter the bad/sad feeling. Life, and all your experiences will not be in vain if it has lead you to a place where you can have a positive impact somewhere.

Keri, I may be reading this wrong, but it seems like you are anticipating a negative result from this next time ttc. I am getting a 'hurry up and get it done so we can move on' feeling from what I have read. Is that where you are? I can understand the negativity,(experience) but wondered if you were consiously aware of how you were putting (or how I am reading wrong) your feelings out there. One thing to put a positive/hopeful spin is that you are being proactive, not reactive. I have a hard time trying to bring you up without sounding like an ass. I can understand if you don't want to get your hopes up, it hurts too much when they fall. Do you really want to do this? I guess that is what I am wondering... What ever may come from this, we will be here through all the craziness and beyond. (like you don't know that already)

It is an impossibility to put aside your experiences, yet in the same breath, you have a brand new chance and are approaching this from a different perspective all together. Just breath my friend... try to think positively.

My sister called today, the insertion went well. They only had to thaw 2 eggs to get 2, so that is good. One of the eggs lost 2 cells, down to 6, and the other stayed 8. We will see on the 16th how it all turns out.

I think I have an inner ear infection now. I have vertigo at the moment and am taking motion sickness pills. Nothing like sober bed spins!

I am going to get supper organized, but thought I should update you.

Keep well my friends,
Micheline uke


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## lolalapcat

Mich










I'm sorry you are sick (my Dad has had inner ear related vertigo twice, I wouldn't wish it on anyone--ick) and that the scheduled hyster has your head spinning even more.

Nothing I type is worthy. I don't know what to say, other than I hope Tan and I can help you process what's going on in your head so you are somewhat okay with this.

Thanks for your concern for both of us, when you are dealing with so much. You truly are extraordinary, Micheline!

It was just in the context of that particular post, that I am negative about ttc. Of course, a large part of me IS negative, based on past crappy experience. And not ttc is placing a barrier between us and our future family, whether those children are of my womb or not. I do want to get it over with, and find out what our future holds. We've been in limbo for 2 years now. Part of me is really positive--the apparent problem with my hormone levels is absolutely correctable, so if that is the issue, it is going to be under control. If that is the issue.

I gave my Mom the first bracelet I made, the blue celestial one. It made her very happy, she kept fussing over it.









I do hope the hyster solves your physical discomfort. It is pretty much guaranteed, isn't it? I hope so.

I'll check in again in the a.m. Board junkie checking out for the night (but carrying my friends with me in my heart).

Keri


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## Mammax4

I do try and keep in mind that there will be some not so pretty days ahead. It is pretty common to have a sadness about losing the ability to have children, so from that perspective I am normal. I think with my timing, that may be a little more intense. I will try and not get too crazy, but I know where to go if I do.

There are all kinds of complication risks to a hysterectomy.... surgically induced menopause, decrease in sexual libido, pain with sex.... In the States, a lot of places ask you to have a living will done prior to surgery. I am mostly concerned about the menopause. I will get there one day, I am hoping later than sooner.

I seem to be better this morning with the vertigo. DH is going to call this morning as I have my pre-op today. I feel a bit like I am running to keep up with the speed of my life at the moment.

I am glad your Mom liked the bracelet. I did too, very nice job!

I guess I will have to get all my bead stuff sorted out right quick, I don't know what I will feel like afterwards. There is extreme fatigue for a while. It takes 6-12 months to get back to feeling like yourself again. (oh yeah.)

I will talk to you later.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

I hope you are feeling better. There is nothing worse than feeling sick and nauseous.

I hope the next few weeks until the 25th go smoothly for you, and help you to reach peace. I'm sure you feel emotional about it. We are here for you.

I am getting over my wobbly ! I don't kow what brought it on or why I feel like I do. Maybe it's the anti-climax of our holiday being over. Maybe it's just the need to feel like I am doing/giving more of myself, and not knowing how or what to do.

Also the idea of 5 weeks of school holidays still to go is daunting. Trying to keep Tayga busy without the costs getting too high, and having time out for myself and just him being happy is freaking me out. I've made some play dates for him, I need to make more.
I think I am making myself mad over nothing.

Keri, I'm sorry you seem to surrounded by pregnant woman. Yes, I felt the same way. You almost feel like they are in your face on purpose. Although you know it's not true. You just wish you didn't have to see them, even though you mean them no harm.

I suppose I feel I am fading into life becasue I don't have a real close friend/mother/sister here. So I tend to do a lot of things on my own that I would have done with my mom or sister. It's a bit lonely.
I have made great friends living here, but no-one I am particularly close to. I'm sure having my sister here will change things, having some-one to be close to and share "girl" stuff with. Like going shopping etc !

If you girls lived here, we could do that too !

I am also a different person to the one that I was when I first got married. I was young, care-free, working in a job what I was good at, had no worries, lived for the moment, went out often and had fun.
Now I am a parent and have responsibilities and come last on the list of priorities.

Mish, good luck for your sister. I hope it works in her favour. I hope you cope through it all too. Well done to you for having a good attitude. I'm sure it's not easy.

DH goes back to work on monday.







It's been fun having him around. It's his birthday on thursday, and our anniversary on friday. I have to get moving on finishing the scrapbook. I can only do it once he goes back to work. Luckily I have done so much already.

I better go and see what all the boys are up to !

Have a great weekend !
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Okay, I have to type fast, because I need to get ready and go meet a friend for lunch and shopping!

Mich---I know the surgery is scheduled, but have you gotten a second opinion? I have reread your posts about the prolapse, and have done some internet research, and now I have questions. Did they offer surgical correction? The 'lax' muscles can be apparently be 'tightened up' surgically, if the prolapse is not severe. Did they suggest you try Kegels to tighten the muscles?

I do not mean to push you back if you are ready to go forward. But this is big surgery with big implications, and some doctors have a 'get it over with' mentality. I'm on your side, no matter what you decide to do. But if you have unanswered questions, ask them now, this is worthy of further research.

And I certainly noticed the crappo timing. That's just...I can't even put my finger on what it is. Besides bad.








You are absolutely normal. It would be abnormal if the impending h-ectomy and all the implications WASN'T weighing on your mind.

Tan--how about the Simpson's puzzle now? Maybe that would be a break from Tayga's other summer activities. 5 weeks does seem like a long time. My Mom used to tell us to go outside and play, but I had a brother to play with, and neighbor kids. How about a bike ride?

And is it our destinies to outgrow fun? Are we supposed to be completely different in our 30's than we were in our 20's? How do we not get weighed down with responsibility, and still get everything done? Yeah, I have to go start some laundry before I go, and I worked on cleaning house lastnight so I could play today. Hmmm.

Wrist measurements, ladies, I will be making bracelets tomorrow! Mich, you have no bracelets? That situation must be corrected! I'm going to use healing stones in a bracelet for my Mom, and I think you need one too. And I have an idea for a necklace.








I hope you both have good weekends!

Keri


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## Mammax4

Happy Weekend! now that it is almost over....

I was practising the art of sloth this weekend... I would say oops, but it has been lovely. I suppose this is a bit routine for me the last few weeks... maybe I am trying out the laying around bit that I will be forced in to in a few weeks.? Are people like animals? Once they get 'fixed' don't they get fat and lazy?? sorry...lame attempt at humor!

We had some friends and their 2 boys over for dinner last night. It was nice. We realized that we hadn't had them to our house in over a year! They missed both updates on our house (kitchen Nov.05 and the reno you know about) It was nice to catch up. We have kept in contact via email and phone, and bump into them sometimes when grocery shopping.

The wife commented on DH's weight loss. I am not sure if I mentioned it or not. He is also having a sore stomach (grabs and moans if coughs) he feels something moving in there, he does have a hernia and figures that has changed. Must get him into the dr darn quick.

So, yes the timing is crappy... going to be in the hospital around the same time the baby might have come. That is definately not lost on me. I shouldn't have said NOT the 31st... I guess it isn't, but it is close enough.

The Dr. didn't tell me I had to have this done, he gave me options and I chose this one. I have a very sensitive system, don't want a device... Kegels would help -not correct, but perhaps slow down the pace or marginally reduce exsisting (mine is moderate)... I don't want to do nothing (that too was a choice...wait and see)... or the hyster. I was not offered a suspension as I told the Dr. I was not having anymore children. (if I had that done, deliveries would be c-s) As everything in there seems to be falling apart and I have other cycle issues it seemed to be the best potenial 'cure all' for me. Plus I sure wouldn't want to have to wait any time at all if it progressed to a severe...that creeps me out.

It will be sad, I have no doubt about that. I don't want to have to go in and do this stuff again, so it seems to be the best choice for me. I am sure I will freak out a bit as I come closer to the time. (tick-tock tick-tock) DH is a bit panicky about this. (can you see me shaking my head?? he is way more expressive about his apprehension of this surgery and said squat about the m/c) His mom had a hyster when he was a young boy and was near death due to a drug allergy. We are keeping the conversation open about our thoughts on this.

I am having nasty thoughts truthfully.... I have great cm (TMI sorry) and have thought wouldn't it be tricky (BAD) if I got DH to dtd and knock me up and then I would be pg again and couldn't have the surgery! Then DH and I would have real problems, the pg would be too much on my insides and emotions ... it is a problem having never ending baby lust. It can make you want to be a person you wouldn't ordinarily be.

Ah well.... if only I wasn't a person of conscience, life would be so much easier. (but then I wouldn't be me...I would be someone else)

It has rained like crazy here again. Last night BIL's truck box filled up with water, it was almost high enough to spill out over the top...about a foot of water in there. We have avoided the flood problems, some of our neighbors are not quite so lucky. The smart ass next door (the one that asked if I had meant to get pg after I told her I had just had a m/c) her basement was flooding last night.
















I measured my wrist (where I would wear a watch) and it was 6", without slack-but not tight. The tape was good at 7" and 7 1/4", but too big at 7 1/2" (I would be able to take a bracelet off with out undoing the clasp) Does that sound about right?

I was going to go to the bead store today, but all the rest of the household went out to IMAX for a movie. I skipped so I could go beading. Once I realized I would have the house to myself, I was kinda excited. I went outside and played with the dog, cleaned up out there a bit...did some laundry...walked/ran on the treadmill...came here....did more laundry... some kinda sloth I am hey!

I suppose I best get on to folding that laundry now. I hope you both had a great weekend. Thanks so much for being concerned about me.









Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Good Monday!

Mich, you are the worst sloth ever! That's the way it goes though---even on my laziest weekends, laundry and vacuuming still get done. Good for you for taking advantage of Alone Time in the house!

I WISH there had been some alone time here. Poor DH, I was so crabby. Do you ever have days when every little thing is a struggle? Ugh. I'm glad it's Monday, and I'm sure DH is glad he's at work. To my credit, he was being extremely oppositional. Would it kill him to agree with me on ANYTHING?

I am glad you are convinced about your decision on the h-ectomy, and apologize for my panic attack on your behalf. (The Device sounds....too awful to think about. Even the name of it is scary.) That came from my basic mistrust of doctors, knowing full well that they will steer you in the direction they want, without full disclosure of info and options.

One thing I read about prolapse is that while a woman with it could carry a child, it often results in premature birth. Just some info to tilt you away from the fantasy, which I do not blame you for having. I certainly understand yearning for a child. But I would hate for it to be a tragic thing....

It helps explain why your DH doesn't want more kids, every time you mention his health. It sounds like he doesn't feel very well, a lot of the time. Poor guy. I want to come tend your house and kids, and make soup for both of you while you recover from your respective surgeries. (btw, DH said you could come down here for the surgery and stay at our house, and we would take care of you--he really knows how much you and Tan mean to me!)

Except for the rain---that's an awful lot! We could use more here, I wish we could take a bit from you. I'm sharing in evil pleasure that your neighbor's basement took on water--heehee! That being said, gutters and grade. We had to bring in a couple loads of dirt to get water to run away from our house, and there was only ONE gutter....just in case you wanted to give her advice. Now that she's good and wet!

No jewelry making yesterday, just cleaned and cleaned, worked on organizing minutiae in the basement (got 3 boxes unpacked and properly sorted), took down the Christmas tree. I am quite tired today, I was still doing things at 9:30 last night. That's what I get for taking a day of play on Saturday!

Your wrist is about the same size as mine, so that will make it easy! That's part of why I never used to wear bracelets, I don't like them hanging down on my hand. Making my own bracelets is the ultimate in control freakiness.

Bead store--overwhelming and expensive. Bought some fun stuff, but no chalcedony. They had blue, which wouldn't look so great with bloodstone, and some larger oval stones, which would take strategic planning to incorporate into a bracelet. The search continues! But I still feel it would be okay to substitute anything that 'feels' right, if you find it in a size you like.

Tan, I'm sorry your DH had to go back to work. It is a truly good sign that you enjoyed his time off together! How are your summer doldrums? Have you gone for a bike ride yet? No pressure!

Today's meditation is one of my favorite quotes, it is on the bookmark I am currently using in the ENDLESS WWII book:

Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all.

---Emily Dickinson








It's the month of hugs.

Keri


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## Mammax4

Good Monday to you Keri *and Tuesday to you Tan*

Keri, sorry DH was an oppositional force adding to the crank capacity. I know how that can be and it isn't fun. Maybe I should come down and recoup at your place, then I can set him straight for you!









I wonder if I have sent out the cause for panic attack? I think this is the best option for me, but I have been less positive and questioning myself of late. (read: panic) The only reason (really...for me) to keep the uterus would be if I was planning on another child. I am not, and there are too many risk factors to getting pregnant again - not just for the suspension issues... my head, stress level, c-s.... Even if I was considering another, I would wait on this surgery until I was all done. Too much to complicate what had been a straight forward thing for me. Thanks for being my research partner.

DH has not been sick like this before. He does have a stomach issue for sure. That is 'maintained positive' by reducing the triggers (garlic cream sauce, too much food, red meat too frequently...). This step-up in issues has only started in the last year, most noticably in the past 4-6 months. His reasoning for no more children is his age (50 this year) and the almighty $. I think those are really just excuses, he is just ready to be done. It is easier for him to give a reason rather than say ' I just don't want anymore because I don't want anymore'. In a discussion last night, he told me that at some point, I need to move beyond being 'the young fertile person' and go into the next stage. hmmm...perhaps I did marry my father. I didn't respond to that, I didn't think there was a point.

The device, no thanks. Not only does it not sound fun long term, but it is not a 'this one works for this prolapse' it is a try and try until you get it right. Not a place I want to go. If you see the devices, they don't look any better than you imagine. I don't have a whole lot of trust in Dr's either, I do feel not too bad about this one. He did my D&C and was the top of the list from my favorite gyne in the whole wide world.

I didn't get to sleep until after 2:30am this morning. My brain just wouldn't shut off. I am thinking I am going to have a few nights like that between now and the 25th. I should get my pre-op sheet from the Dr soon, perhaps that will help. Too many unknowns right now. (not about the surgery, just the befores and afters that are in my head)

Tan, how was your weekend? How is the weather? How are the boys?

Will has come for a hug. He just told me 'Mom, I'm so proud of you'. Best go and take advantage of this cuddle-fest!

Have a good day,

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hello, friends!

Mich, thanks for your offer to straighten up my DH! It was a passing storm, we are both in more normal moods now.

My PMS has been exceedingly powerful the last couple of months....I hate using that as an excuse, but normally it takes so much more to upset me. And it upsets me even more that I regard this upswing in PMS as a residual effect of the m/c's.

And that's a good reason to fear the h-ectomy, Mich. Hormones can be nasty even without any interference. And like you said, there can be complications. It is a very very big deal.

But if you trust this doctor, and they have a good record, and this is the best decision for you, I will calm down. But better to think about everything sooner rather than later.








I hope you got some sleep lastnight. Empty your brain, that can help. Let it out here, or on the H forum, or on paper....whatever makes you comfortable. It is worthy of a lot of thought.

The timing of your DH's stomach problems escalating....stress? Grief? Not causing it, of course, but exacerbating it. I HATE undiagnosed issues, it's just wrong!

Ummm, and a small retort about 'moving beyond the young fertile phase'...it's not really your choice to move beyond it, you are being forced along. Even if you chose not to have more kids, at least it was an option. I'm sure your DH was referring to a mindset, but so close to the surgery....you can't remove the loss of fertility from the surgery.

You are still young, sweetie! When we were still taking care of my 90 year old granddad, I vowed not to squander my youth wishing I were younger! Everyone in that nursing home thought anyone younger than 60 was a kid. And you know, they were right.

And yes, the age difference between you and your husband probably doesn't come up very often....but here it is. Your timelines may be a bit off on this subject. But it's not quite like marrying your father...is it?

Blahblahblah. I'm getting back out of your head, Mich! Thanks for letting me in!

I'm calling the doctor today. I said on another thread I was working with a doctor on the hormones, and with the charting we are gathering information, but I need to make good on what I said. We'll maybe squeeze in an appointment before the Big One in Feb.

Tan, has summer break driven you mad? I'm not sure if I should be worried, or be glad that you are out having fun.....hopefully it's the latter!

Off to seize the day, quite literally....

Take care, friends.









Keri, choosing to be a lunatic!


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## Mammax4

Youhoo Tan... how are you? Is your bike getting a good work out? Keri, will your broom make it to Australia...I think mine will. Maybe we should go see what Tan is up to.

It's funny how your perspective on age changes as you get older. I remember being in elementary school and thinking my teachers were ancient. I am sure they weren't more than 30, if that! For me it is weird that I have friends that my parents would/could hang out with. I told my Mom that you know you are getting old when you buy the new Tony Bennett cd...for yourself...and you like it! I know I am still young, but it does make me 'feel' old when I think I have a high school attending son.

Both my DH and Dad have commented on my getting beyond the baby/pregnant stage. My Dad told me that there is more to life than being pregnant. DH said I need to get past the young fertile stage of life. That's where the 'married my Dad' came from. Although, truthfully my DH is only 4 years younger than my Dad. My Dad turns 54 in March. He gets mistaken for my husband all the time.







I am not sure if it is because he looks young or I look old.

I took a paper with some questions into my gyne's office today. I may need to see him, but he may just call me. I don't have many questions, but thought rather than wonder until too late, I should ask now rather than regret later. I mostly just lurk on the 'h' site. This is my home. Even if you can't speak to this stuff, you know me and can help me be less crazy! Or research to make sure I am doing the best thing for me!!









How did the 'dr appointment getting' call go?

I do agree it was a reference to my baby-lust way of thinking. A quick story about last night and then I must go.
(me + quick...HA HA that's funny!)

I bought some pants for post op last night...they were really big. The term 'swelly belly' runs rampant on the 'h' site. It is suggested that you get undies and pants two sizes too big.







I was showing DH the pants and the two bigger boys saw them. They both commented on how big the pants were and wondered who they were for. I told them they were for me....they both said "I know why you have such big pants...you're going to have another baby". Neither one of them was peeved at the thought, it was just matter of fact. I had to break it to them that I was not going to have another baby. (I have not told them about the surgery, it's not for them to know the details.) So, do you think I am transparent in my baby mind?

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi Gals !!!!!

I'm here ! Tayga has been keeping me very busy ! Running here, running there, trying to do what I would normally do while he's at school, book club last night etc.

It's scary how the days fly by.

Keri I hope you are feeling better. It is insane how hormones can turn you into a lunatic ! I reckon that once I stopped breastfeeding and my hormone level went back to normal, I felt better. Less of a lunatic. I discussed that with my doc, and he said it is possible.

Mish, I think men just don't understand what it's like to be pregnant. So it's easy for them to say "get on with it".
I relate to the age thing. I also don't feel my age. The other day someone asked me how old I am, and I seriously had to think before I answered. I had to think becasue my mouth wanted to say 26, but my head was saying "oh no, you're 33. 33 oh, my god !!!"

I got on my bike the other day and went for a ride. I think I am being overly ambitious about a 30 km bike ride. I'll find something else to do.

My DH was also having troubles with his tummy. I stopped using onions, and it seemed to make a difference. We also cut down on bread.

Tayga is having a friend come over and play today. I wnat to try and get to the scrapbook store before. So I can get the last few things I need to finish my scrapbook while they play and Jamie sleeps. Under pressure to finish it before friday.

It's dh's b-day tomorrow. We wanted to go out for dinner tomorrow night, but our usual babysitters are away. Can't seem to find anyone to sit for us. I'll keep looking.

Jamie is teething. So he is really miserable. Poor thing.

Fire up those brooms, I'm waiting for you !!!!

Chat later
Tan


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## Mammax4

Well, aren't I just a Big Thread Hog!!!








:







: Pick me...Pick me... I'll do it!!! I wish I was close enough to do that for you Tan. It would be an arm wrestle, because I know Keri would be there with bells on too! Just think....not too many more days until they have an in area Auntie to do that for them. When does she come?? Is it the 21st?

I can't imagine a 30k bike ride, I have been such a slug these past 4 years. I lost my walking buddy. They moved. I have started going on the treadmill instead. The risk of being washed or blown away is too great to be outside right now.







Apparently we are in for it again. They are calling for rain, snow, WIND, freezing temperatures and ice...did I mention Wind??

You know it is funny, bieng surrounded by pregnant people. One leaves and another one comes. Another one of the Mom's told me she is pg. 3 months. I was (surprisingly) okay, in fact I was happy for them. Her due date will be the same weekend of my m/c.

Alright now, I am not sure of who all is in charge of decorating the path I walk...but come on...enough is enough! I am glad I am in such a better head space at this moment... I could see how these things could easily put it over the top!

Must go, potatoes are boiling.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hey Tan! I figured you were busy with Tayga, winding down the summer.

Mich, I have seized control of the thread from you!

Good work on getting on the bike! I haven't been on a bike for years. In fact, I have a bike my tushy has never touched....maybe this spring! I really do miss rollerblading, I just don't like to drive so far to be able to do it, then get back in my car all sweaty. Yick.








: Mich, sorry about the Big Pants episode. It must be really apparent how much you want another baby. When are you going to tell the boys about your impending surgery?

After the laparascopic surgery I was really bloated for weeks. Nobody told me it would go on that long. At least you are finding some honest information, so hopefully there won't be any surprises.

My huge suggestion is to eat really really well. My FIL had a section of his colon removed...we showed up the day he got out of the hospital (bad timing, it was a prearranged trip). Even though the visiting nurse kept telling him to eat lots of protein, fruits and veggies, all he wanted was pound cake. My MIL kept buying him crap to eat....it was a really long recovery. It was very major surgery, but I'm convinced that not getting good nutrition made his road much harder. It was sad to watch.

And I'm all about things that can be controlled!

Yes, I made the appointment yesterday. It is TOMORROW! Grrrr. It's the itty bitty version of what you are going through, Mich...did they have to be so darned efficient? I could use a little brain-prep time---I just wanted to MAKE the appointment this week, not GO to it this week!

Age story: My Mom and her sisters talk about what went wrong with their baby sister---her life has always been a disaster. What ALWAYS comes up is the fact that their parents were 'old and tired' by the time they had Youngest Aunt. My Grandma was 37! I swear, someone's gonna get hurt then next time they say that in my presence, the unthinking harpies.

Mich, your Dad was so young when you came along! No wonder you say you married your father! My Dad was 32 when I was born. He just turned 69. Must Produce Grandchild. Now it's my parents' birthdays that are driving me batty!

Still hormone ridden. Yuck. It's no longer anger, it's just exhaustion, mixed with angst.

Tan, I want to babysit! I NEVER get asked to babysit, and I am good at it! Mich, my broom is in fine working order, transcontinental is not a problem!

Oh my gosh, our Godson....Saturday night we got to his parents' house...no sooner had I said 'hi' to the little guy, then he WAVED (never seen that before) broke into a huge smile, and reached out for me! Then he tucked himself in my arms, leaned his head against my chest and cuddled. I could not love that child any more than I already do.

I am so jealous of you guys, you have that already! Mich, your short story about Will brought tears to my eyes....why did he tell you he was proud of you? Was there more context, or was it just because? That's so sweet!

Tan, when I was in college my wisdom teeth would break through the suface of my gums, then it would heal over, then they would break through...I finally had them surgically removed. Teething is awful, painful, irritating, even a little itchy. Give Jamie a hug from me!

Mich, sorry your path has been decorated the way mine was. At least I only know of one pregnant person now. She's due at the end of this month.

And on that note, gotta run, I'm late as usual.










Keri


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## Mammax4

Ladies...

Tan, when we had Dan I was given the following info about infant/toddler teething....

If we, as adults, went through the same kind of pain, we would be on morphine. This really puts things into perspective. I share this info with parents that I work with that are mentioning the teething woes.

Keri, my wisdom teeth did Exactly the same thing. I had them removed because I didn't want to deal with it anymore.

I have told the boys that I am going for surgery, I just haven't told them what surgery I am having. (Dan thought it might be to remove the dead fetus... I cleared that up for him) It is a funny thing this whole 'h' thing. I really don't want people to know about it. It is something that I need ultra private at this point. I have asked my DH to not tell BIL and I am not telling my Mom or sister. (I did tell them I was having the 'h' surgery, but have since become ultra private about it and haven't updated the date)

I must say, honestly, that as of this point I would be insane if I had a long time between booking and the surgery. I have not slept well in the past few days. My head is not turning off. I am thinking I may take a gravol pill so I can sleep tonight. So, maybe it is good that you are going in tomorrow. It will save you all the insane things/worries that may travel through your brain. I hope it goes well. Are you ready for them to say go for it... or hang on until after the big appt? Either way is scary and emotional. (for me it would be)

A well placed 'ah...hello!' may stop them from continuing down harpie path. It is amazing how many people open their mouths without thinking isn't it?

DH's parents were older too when we started. FIL was 69 and had written off the potential for grandkids. I can understand the 'production' pressure. He was quite tickled that we had a boy because he was a big geneology/family tree guy. That his branch of the tree would continue gave him great pleasure. It would be even that much more now! He did meet C, but not W.

Will just came up to me out of the blue and told me he was proud of me. He wanted a big hug and Who am I to put that off! I thought I best tend to him and his affection.

It is amazing when babies become more interactive isn't it? They seem to go from a little lump of cuteness to this interactive bundle of holy cow! how can they be doing that already.

I must excuse myself and get dinner ready. The hungry crowd is gathering.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

How was your appointment ? How u feeling ?

I got the clasps today. I got the toggle one that u suggested. I hope it's the right thing ! Now got to get the stone. Am I getting my initial too ?

My parents were 23 when they had me !! Old parents, young parents.... to me it doesn't make a difference. It depends on the relationship, and how much effort you put into it.

Keri, your godson sounds so gorgeous. Children have such a special way of touching your soul. You will experience it one day.

I also had my wisdom teeth removed. They were impacted. It was not pleasant !

Mish, I hope u r sleeping a little better. I'm sure you have got a lot on you mind. Sleeptime is when you have time to yourself to think. Try and clear your mind of everything and relax if u can.

Last night we went out for dh's b-day. We took the kids with us.Bad idea !! Tayga was good, Jamie made a noise and a mess !! It wasn't like we were a family restaurant either !

I gave dh the scrapbook for our anniversary today. He loved it. He nearly started crying ! He kept on paging through it, over and over again. Saying how special it was and amazing, that he loved it. Made all the hours put into it, worth it. He said it's the best present he has ever received








He didn't give me a present, becasue we had discussed a while ago that he didn't want to buy me something that I didn't really like. I can be a bit fussy. He asked me what I wanted, and I decided jewellery would be nice. So I am having a ring made. I have to decide on a style and find someone to make it !
He wanted to send me away on a huge pamper weekend. I would prefer to have something tangible, that I can look at in years to come and remember our 10th anniversary. What can I say, I'm a sentimental fool.

We will go out for our anniversary next week, when all our babysitters are back.

My sister arrives today 2 weeks







I can't believe it.

Jamie is still a bit grumpy, but not as bad.

Tayga wants to watch tv all the time, or have me entertain him (if he hasn't have a friend over). It's so tiring. I just want to chill. I don't want to be unfair and say no tv all the time, but I also don't want him to watch all the time. Sometimes it's just easier to say "watch", so I can have some semi-peace.

Better go and see what the 2 of them are up to !

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan, Happy Anniversary! Sorry I am a day late. Well, 2 days now. And please pass on belated birthday wishes to your DH!

Isn't that great that all your hard work paid off? It is neat that your DH appreciated what you put into the scrapbook...good job! And it's such a unique, personal gift, those are rare.









Oh, a custom made ring will be so much fun! Tell us what you decide on, and of course we'll want photos when it is done! Hmm, I know someone here who makes custom jewelry, but there's that darn distance again.

I like tangible reminders, also. That's what we are doing with the bracelets.

Toggles, good work! Yes, initials too. That's a hard one, I haven't found anything that has really appealed to me. I have been practicing more on the beading, trying to get a little better!

The appointment yesterday was really good, thanks for asking. The dr. was very nice and very helpful. He looked at my charts, said 'oh, there is a problem', talked about it with us, wrote us a prescription for progesterone, and sent us out of there with tons of hope.

I hadn't even made it out of the examining room before I was crying---it is such a relief, to hear that something can be done to help increase our odds of having a child. To hear someone say yes, we can help you. To hear someone say, yes there is a concrete problem, and it is correctable.

So we do have the go ahead to start trying as soon as the next cycle. Since it was such a short time between scheduling the appointment and going to it, no records had been transferred. DH and I both want the new dr. to look over all of the other testing, just in case, so that will take some time.

And I scheduled my annual exam, and I think it may interfere with ttc. Bad timing, huh? And they suggested I get a mammogram. Suck. Now I do feel like an old person trying to become a mom! Reaallllly bad timing!

So I have an appointment Monday, one on the 22nd, another on the 29th and one more on the 6th. I would feel bad for myself, but Mich, your surgery is far more involved than my dr's appointments, so no self pity here. I'll expend my energy being concerned about you.

Has your dr. gotten back to you with answers for your questions? Keep us posted, of course.

Why are you keeping the h-ectomy so very quiet? Not even your Mom and sister? Your BIL sorta lives in the house....and the boys. What is going on in your head, Mich? This isn't quite making sense to me.

Sort of, because I keep the m/c info pretty tight. I do understand from that perspective. But you talked about your m/c in your Christmas letter, but you now aren't telling people very close to you about your impending surgery.

"If I contradict myself, very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes." ---Walt Whitman, Song of Myself

How's that for some justification? You don't have to be able to explain it, if you don't want or if you can't. You do what you have to, in order to get through this. I'm just a little concerned that you are isolating your support system.








Not us though! Any way we can help, just let us know.

Have you gotten some sleep?

My wisdom teeth were impacted also. Really bad experience. That's why I feel so sorry for teething babies. Ouch! And don't even get me started on ear infections....I started having them again in my 20's, and still occasionally get one. Mercy, that is horrible! And BABIES get them! It's so wrong.

Tan, what about a project for Tayga? Don't they make car or airplane models for his age? Something to sit and concentrate on, something to create. Maybe a little construction set, like an erector set. Those are the type of things my brother liked, anyway. Give him paper and crayons, and ask him to make a book about your holiday.....

I have to vacuum, before the house collapses under the weight of the cat hair. I hope you are both having good days!

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I'm so glad to hear your appointment went well and that you left feeling hopeful. I'm sure it is a relief to hear good news. Please keep me posted.

Thank you for the wishes









I have tried so many things for Tayga. I bought him a whole packet of ice-cream sticks and glue, so he can make things with it. I've bought canvases and paint, so he can paint something. A Bart Simpson diary and pens so he can write about his holiday. A fun maths book to practice his math.
Those things are sitting and waiting for him.

We built a lego truck the other day. He enjoyed that. We also went to the library and he enjoyed that. He has read some of the books he chose.

He prefers to mope around the house moaning he's bored, or glue himself in front of the tv all. Which I obviously don't want.

I think the answer to the problem is that I need to be more organised. I need to have a proper plan to the day. Once we're up know we're going here or there, and get going asap.
Pretty much I'm going to be busy keeping him busy. Shew, I'll need a holiday after this ! He used to be so good at amusing himself. These days he wants company. I suppose I can understand, but he also needs to learn to do stuff on his own.

DH and I have our suspicion that he might have ADHD. THere are some things that to me are obvious. THen I also think he might be a typical energetic 7 year old. I need to discuss it with the paediatrician. I'm not one for medicating, but if it'll help and it's a solution, then it might be an option. Lately he just seems to be more hard work than normal and than what should be required (make any sense ?).
His behaviour starts to affect the whole family.

We have just come back from having brunch. Our normal saturday morning ritual ! We go to the same place every sat for brunch !
Jamie is having his sleep. DH and Tayga have gone cd/dvd shopping and who knows what else. Boy stuff !
I am going to actually relax and have me time !! I am going to read my book ! I have just started a book called "Hunting and Gathering" which I am enjoying !

I hope you have a great weekend. Anything special planned ?

Tan


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## Mammax4

Tan, Happy belated Anniversary. I am glad your DH appreciated the album you made for him. Moved to tears says tons! I am very excited for you to have your sister's arrival so close. Are you having a hard time waiting?

Keri, I am so glad you had some results to work from. It must be a relief to have cause and now a proactive position to start from. I wish I was close enough to give you a big hug right now!!

You do have a lot of running around to do in the next few weeks, but it will ensure you are in great health as you start ttc.

Keri, I must say your questions challenged me, in a good way. It is hard to explain, and right off the top of my head, I couldn't haven given you a 'good' reason why I feel the need for 'top secret' status.

(this is what I would have told you this morning - if I hadn't had time to really think about it...)
It is not something that I want as common knowledge, so the fewer people I tell, the less risk there is of that. BIL - I don't know for sure he would keep it from his sisters. My boys - they don't need to know what surgery I am having. (TMI) They know I am having surgery, and know I will need help. Not to mention I would feel uncomfortable talking about the state of my vagina with them, a little to intimate information for me to hand them.









Now, having time, I can say that in addition to the above I realize that I identify myself as all encompasing baby stuff. Pregnancy, childbirth, childcare and Mothering has been the focus in my life for a long time. It has become how I identify myself. It is who I am, what I do and the passion of my life.

To have me without that potential is to lose a part of myself; part of how I see myself. I will need to readjust the vision of myself. I need the time to process that change and allow myself to decide who I want to invite into that part of my life.

At this point I walk into the surgery with my eyes wide open, in my heart sits regret and my head resignation. One day there will be acceptance, I haven't had the time to prepare myself for that at this point. Maybe it would have been accomplished if the surgery happened in 6 months, but I doubt it.

My Mom knows I am going in, in a moment of weakness I told her. She is not good at keeping things to herself, I figured I would leave it be and perhaps it would slip out of her mind.

I don't want to burden my sister with my date, she may be newly pregnant and won't need the stress of worrying about me. I may tell sis once I am done and home. Then she will not have the worry, but will understand the potential crazy from me. I will play that by ear, because I also don't want to alienate her pregancy sharing with me. I don't know if she would be as open with me, or if she would use me as the resource that I was for her last time.

Does that make any sense? or is it the ramblings of a madwoman? Please feel free to continue to put my head really in this. (not that it isn't, but you give me cause to stop and consider things not necessarily in my train of thought) It is sort of like the miscarriage, I could not talk about it for a while, I needed some distance from it. I need to not have this as the main source of conversation fodder as I need to really wrap my head around this too.

Sleep is not easily had, but I will make up for it in two weeks. My gyne did answer my questions, so that has cleared that up.

That is where my crazy head is....crazy isn't it?

I will get to the bead store this weekend. Saturday is my day of choice. I will update you with my selections. I did have a thought about an alternative to initials if we wanted to do that. There was a silver ribbon with a hole on each ribbon end, I was thinking we could have each others birth stone on the ribbon. This would signify where we met and would allow each of us to carry the others with us. Just a thought as I too have had problems finding initial charms.

Have a great night, I will talk tomorrow.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Mich, thanks for wanting to give me hug. I want them. The world around me isn't as happy about our news as I am....I think people are scared of me getting pregnant again, since the m/c's have caused such major derailment. I am not alone in viewing ttc as ttmc, apparently. But this latest chapter is huge good news...I am truly hopeful.

Thanks for answering my very nosey questions. It is now a debate. Sorry.







:

Isn't withholding information from your boys create the potential for real fear on their parts? Already Dan has concocted a logical reason for the surgery. (And long term, knowing more about 'woman issues' will make them better husbands, fathers and friends someday.)

And isn't withholding info from your sister setting up a culture of protecting one another...and she may not engage in full disclosure with you, to 'protect' you? If it works, it works, but be prepared for the quid pro quo.

I do not blame you for wanting to keep it under wraps. But the very nature of it (major surgery AND a hospital stay AND 6-12 months recovery) makes it difficult to do.

My Dad went into the hospital for a possible heart attack, years ago. I lived out of state, and they didn't want me to worry. So they mentioned it casually after the fact. I was SO MAD! I DESERVED to know if my Dad's life was hanging in the balance, even if I couldn't be there! Maybe that's where my head is on this. I just thought of it, and I think that's what is coloring my position on this.

I know I'm being pushy, I just want to help you process as much as possible beforehand. Tell me to stop, and I will.

You are still a woman, a mom, a nurturer, a creator....yes, the potential for more babies is gone, but you are still You. You will not be less because you won't have more.

Regret in your heart: "Regret is an appalling waste of energy. You can't build on it. It is only for wallowing in." ---Katherine Mansfield

Chief wallower here. Sometimes you just have to.








I wish I was there so we could drink tea and wine and eat fudge and talk about all of this for a while, and none of it for a while!

If you are not ready, you can cancel the appointment, you have that power. If you are sure this is the right decision, it may be better to do it sooner, rather than later. I'll keep excavating your brain, to hopefully help you be ready for it.

Okay, I'm done now. You must be relieved!

Tan, I think kids get used to structure at school, so that's why they get a little lost at home with free time. I have a theory on 'I'm bored'....anytime Tayga says it, say 'oh good, we need to...' clean your room, pull weeds, sweep the floors, fold laundry. Anything he would rather not do. Make it a liability to be bored. My Mom used to do that. I was rarely bored around her!

Math books are fun? I had no idea! That must be a boy thing!

Keep us posted on the ADHD thing. It has to be hard to figure out what is typical 7 year old boy, and what isn't. Good to defer to an expert.

Hang in there, his Aunt will be here soon, then he starts back in the Happy School again!

Mich, I like the idea of the birthstones on the ribbon. That could be a good solution. And once again, I am flexible on the primary stones. Whatever resonates is good. I am doing some more bead shopping today, if the weather allows.

DH is being productive, and I am not even dressed. I am feeling social pressure. I'll check in tomorrow, or maybe again tonight.

Keri


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## Mammax4

Tan, is the change in Tayga needing more direction in line with the school issues? or is it just now that school is out that he is wanting more stimulation/company? It is hard to balance keeping everyone okay. You need some time, Tayga needs you more and Jamie needs to be able to nap. Do you have a fenced yard? Does Tayga like to interact with Jamie? Would he do things like blow bubbles for Jamie? Sometimes older kids get a kick out of making younger ones laugh. Does your sister have kids? Maybe a 'schedule' would help. Is there a park near his new school? Do you think he is nervous about changing schools?

Wouldn't you love to get rid of the tv and video games at times? I know my guys would like to glue themselves to them alot more than I would ever be okay with. (they would barely break to eat and pee!)

Keri, I am sorry the 'world around you' couldn't be more overtly positive for you. We can be. The IRL people are probably worried about you and that is over-riding their ability to be positive.

I am torn about telling/not telling my sister. I will see. I don't want her to be upset that I didn't tell her, which is what I am setting myself up for. If this was a serious/life threatening situation I would not be keeping this to myself, I couldn't do that. My boys are at an age where they would be uncomfortable hearing the details of my surgery - girl privates are not a topic they enjoy. They know it is a gyne surgery, but not what exactly is being done. I have explained to them I will need help after I am home, although I focused on the 6 weeks post-op, I hadn't thought about the 6-12 months being something I need to prepare them for. I actually hadn't thought about it much myself. I know DH and I have discussed it, but that is as far as it got.

You are right, regret is a waste of time. I am not one to wallow, but yet there are times....

You are not being pushy, not in a bad way. I am stuck in my own head and have all the info and research in there, but my guys don't. You are presenting valid points that need my consideration.

The option for cancelling has definately gone through my head. I think mostly because I am overwhelmed by nerves. I don't have misgivings about my decision, my symptoms are showing themselves more frequently of late which only reinforces the rightness of this choice. I am sad about the permanence of this operation, but that would be the same now or later. I sure don't want to wait another 4-6 months with the potential of symptoms increasing and/or happening more frequently.

Anyway, to another topic! I did get to the bead store. I slipped on an icy sidewalk on my way there, but I made it. (have I told you gals we have the 's' word here again - Tan I didn't say it just for you!)

okay I bought some...

- bloodstone beads it is actually green with red spots (green chalcedony with red (iron oxide) spots
- carnelian beads
- unakite beads
- tourmaline chips - it is too expensive to buy beads. I don't know what you two think of tourmaline, but these chips are small and look beautiful. I think they would look beautiful as part of a necklace.

and crimping beads, crimping pliers, wire and some toggles. I am going to try my hand at making some stuff. It will actually be something I can do while I am laying low for a bit.

That's my news for the night. I will check in tomorrow.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

My efforts to cut back on both of these things is just not going well.

Good Sunday morning/evening!

Tan, I need to thank you for your good wishes also....I got distracted thanking Mich for the hug! I do appreciate your support so very very much.

Hmmm. Girl parts are a fact of life. An encyclopedia and 90 seconds.....

Our neighbor, and one of Mom's closest friends, miscarried twins, one at a time. I must have been 11 or 12 at the time. I knew about her endometriosis, miscarriages, and hysterectomy. Now, I'm sure it's different, since it was 'friend talk', but they obviously didn't censor much around me. Not sure about the boys (they had 2 sons) but it never seemed like a secret. It was just part of life.

Once again, the past colors my present point of view. Isn't it interesting, how I just assume there is a way to do things, because that's how I saw it done 25 years ago? Must purge brain.

So you would tell you sister if the surgery was more serious. But that flies in the face of sparing her from stress. So your not telling her about the H is not really about her stress level? Or it's just not a 'need to know' surgery?

Just for reference. I punish people by withholding information. When someone hurts me, I exclude them from the important things in my life. I know, it's unhealthy. The people I used to do this to aren't in my life anymore... so it doesn't happen often. That's not what is happening here, is it?

Why is it 6-12 months of recovery? Is that physical, or hormonal or both? I understand that any sort of incision in the abdomen is beastly--I took anatomy and physiology in high school, and remember the four layers of muscles in the stomach, all running different directions. My stupid laparascopic surgery remained uncomfortable for weeks, and it was only 3 little incisions. (My friend was better within a week or so of hers...I'm a slow healer). What are you facing? And what can make it better?

Okay, that's enough badgering. You have been such a good sport. And I really am trying to help you process stuff, and make conscious decisions. I need help with that too, and you both have helped me so much.









Mich, it's a bit freaky....yesterday I bought a strand of tourmaline beads, handled every carnelian strand I found, looked at unakite and bloodstone. Are you in my head? WTH?

The tourmaline was pricey, but I bought them to put on my Mom's second healing bracelet. She wants one to wear as an ankle bracelet....she is grasping at straws, poor thing. But if it makes her think more positively, okay then.

I bought more components, spacers and bead caps and such. Also a strand of crackled white quartz, some magnetic hematite and some cheaper glass beads. I finally made it to the hippie head store with beads...wow, did they have an awesome collection! They had the prettiest blue lace agate beads, but it was $29 for a strand, and I didn't have a particular plan for them. We smelled like patchouli incense when we left....

All the colors of things you bought will work together really well! Good luck on your new venture! Maybe you will finally put together your Mom bracelet. I saw findings yesterday that are set up for multiple strands.

Chalcedony is an issue...that's what I'm supposed to be getting, but all kinds of things are types of chalcedony, like agate and carnelian. So do I get a TYPE of chalcedony, or should we choose another specific stone? It's confusing.

Tan, your Saturday brunch ritual sounds so neat! DH and I need to establish a ritual like that. And I am hungry right now.

Mich, hope you are okay after slipping on the ice....it is cold here, and we are expecting several inches of snow today. Can we say 'Snow Day'? Come on, weather! I would love a 3 day weekend!

Talk to you soon,

Keri


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## Mammax4

Well, I have my coffee now, so perhaps I can







...like I need coffee to do that!

If my situation was a serious health/life issue, that would supercede any/all outside considerations. This isn't, so I have reservations. I probably will tell my sister and my mom, because if they phone while I am in hospital that will put DH in an awkward situation. (I have been thinking about that more and more lately, it wouldn't be fair for me to do that to him) They both are aware that I am having surgery and what the surgery is for, they just don't know the date.

My boys, I can't get my head around telling them specifics. Probably because they have the potential to share with others here. We are not a secretive family either. They watched Will be born and cut his umbilical cord and are very pregnancy/childbirth aware/friendly due to my immersion in that area. (same for death too due to my volunteer work, but that is off topic)

I have had 4 other gyne surgeries (after tubal ligation) and they were aware (at an age approprate level) of what was going on. They all were for positive things. This doesn't fit into the positive thing for me, at least not in my head. It will (hopefully) eliminate physical symptoms and that would be positive.

I guess I am embarrassed about the surgery I am having. The less people that know, the less I have to be uncomfortable with. Now I know you are probably wanting to know what I am embarrassed about, did I steal a ?? from you? I am 36 and have the insides of a old, post menopausal woman due to either genetics or deliveries....not that cause matters. I *know* that the surgery will not make me less a woman, but there is something about the surgery that makes me feel less. Perhaps a self protection mechanism of some description?? I don't know. Protection from what I don't know. My own head maybe.

I am having a LAVH (lap. assisted vaginal hyster) with the potential of a conversion to a TAH (total abdominal hyster). It will depend on what the dr. finds when he looks in my belly. I have had 5 previous abdominal surgeries and the risk of adhesions makes the lap. necessary. If there are difficulties, then I will have the abdominal procedure. I am also having cystocele and rectocele repairs too.

I am not sure why the 6-12 month recovery time. It is a physical thing, fatigue being a Major issue. It is not always the case, but it can take that long. The removal and readjustment of the abdominal organs/structures is part of that I think.

What can make it better? Maybe strapping me down somewhere so I don't over do it. I was telling DH that I thought I would be fine to have Will on my own the first week after surgery...he in no uncertain terms told me that he was staying home and was going to hassle me if I was trying to do too much. (visual - me standing with my hip jutted out hand on it making attitude snorting sounds... What, ya think ya know me or something?)

The bloodstone and carnelian are destined for your hands Keri. I can't decide if I want to send the tourmaline too, or if I want to try and make something here. How many beads do you think we will need per bracelet? I was thinking I should have bought another strand of carnelian. I may do that today, in a bigger size perhaps. I will walk much more carefully though! I know I was supposed to get one kind, but found my original choice and thought the carnelian (my new choice) was too nice not to pick up too. I bought a deeper, almost red carnelian. I wasn't as fond of the more orange, lighter colour.

Keri, you should choose what you want. You are telling us to do that and yet are not allowing yourself the same freedom. I am thinking I will get your stuff in the mail today! at long last. I need to get it done before I have surgery, or it might never get to you! I realized last night that I have only one more weekend before surgery. Yikes.

Have a great day.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Ah, more coffee...

Good morning/evening!

Tan, I miss you! Tell Tayga and Jamie and your DH that they have to share you for a few minutes!

Mich, your explanation makes sense, about your feeling of embarrassment over your 'condition'. I sorta feel the same way about the multiple miscarriages, it's so unusual and unheard of, and something is so obviously WRONG with me, I can't do what other people can do without even trying, why would I want to chat about that?

When the RE was talking about the potential for removing one of my ovaries (the hysterosalpingogram showed a problem that wasn't really a problem) I had a very intense, deep, knee jerk reaction to the concept. It's a part of my body, for heavens sake! Very disturbing. And I have 2 of them. A uterus isn't redundant. So I have a little bit of understanding.....they are taking a very important, functional, part of you.

It is a very personal topic, and you have every right to only discuss it when and if you want to. I'm completely done pushing you!

You hadn't even told us how complicated the surgery is, and we are pretty safe to talk to. Nosey and pushy, but safe.

It is good that you are getting the combination surgery. It's a quality of life issue. And I read that even women who haven't been pregnant can have the combination of symptoms you have.

I know someone who had a H a couple of years ago...she's about my age. After giving birth to her only child, she had pretty extreme incontinence issues. The H pretty well fixed it. I wonder if that was actually a cystocele.

Good for your DH for staying home to take care of you! I really like that guy!

After my lap surgery I did overdo it, with lifting and working too much. It did set me back several days, comfort wise. I should have listened. Please learn from my stubbornness! Lack of pain is not a good gauge of recovery, the pain pills conceal a lot.

Wish I was there, for a million reasons. You should be able to feel the weight of my thoughts, since you are surrounded by them!

Perhaps tourmaline will be my contribution to the project, it's a healing, grounding stone. I'm glad you picked the same sort of carnelian I was looking at...the deeper colors. Very pretty!

I've been making gypsy type bracelets for my Mom, a chain of beads with other smaller beads dangling...is that too much for an everyday piece of jewelry like we are making?

I'll check in later...


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## Tan II

Hi









It's me !!! Sorry, the days seem to fly by. I am being kept very busy.
We have been having fun, and it has been a bit hectic and tiring too.

I spoke to my GP about Tayga having ADHD. He said that he doesn't think he is. If he had it, it would be constant. Not sometimes. His feeling is that his behaviour is related to being tired (too many late nights, and not sleeping well), and diet. Not eating enough or enough of the right food.
It makes sense. He has been having plenty of late nights and waking early. Even during school he went to bed late, or struggled to fall asleep so had a late night. As far as the eating goes.... he is a fussy eater. What he will eat is limited. To get him to eat properly, and not junk is another battle. So if he is moody becasue he is hungry. I can understand too.

I feel better about that. I can only hope we sort it all out. I suppose I also have to remember that he is a 7 year old boy who will try and push the limits.

I say this all bravely now, until I flip out because he has driven me mad !

Mish, I understand your reluctance to share your H with just anyone. I am also a very private person, and share stuff with people I feel comfortable with. I'm glad that you are going to tell your mom and sister. I do think they would be upset if you didn't. They would want to be able to be there for you, and offer you support. How can they if you don't tell them when u r having it done.

I think it is a huge thing psychologically having a H. You need to get your head in the right space. Take your time. I would imagine that it's the right decision for you.

I'm glad to hear that your DH is staying at home to take care of you. That's a good man.

We are here for you.

I will go bead shopping. I haven't had much time to go, I want to enjoy the experience and not rush in and rush out. I will get it done soon.

Keri, your gypsey bracelets sound gorgeous. Please take a pic to show us.

How are you feeling ?

It's funny how things happen in life. The things we do and the people we meet. Tayga was at his good friend Nick yesterday. I got talking to his mom. Such a nice person. We often chat. Yesterday we really got to know each other. It turns out that she is studying astrology. She is going to do my chart. Out of interest, she said that it is typical behaviour of a 7 year old. Something to do with the saturn. I can't remember. Interesting stuff.

She lent me a book on Angels to read. I have just started it. Amazing. Makes one think.

She has also had her losses. She was pregnant with twins, and lost the one baby at 26 weeks.

She is just a lovely, kind, caring person. I said to her that I wish I had met her after I had my losses. I know she would have given me the support and kindness that I needed.

I am doing a one day astrology course in Feb. Learning to chart your child and apply it.

Mish you might be right in saying that Tayga needs more direction and could be bored. I hope that the new school makes a difference, and that his new teacher is one who can deal with strong willed children in a positive way.

Going to make some lunch. I'm starving !

Chat soon
Tan


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## Mammax4

Alright...there was no sloth-ing going on here tonight!

Keri, I put the beads in the mail to you. I sent them in a way that the package can be tracked because I have the worst luck with Canada Post.

I picked up the things I will need while at the hospital and did a bunch of other errands.

I called my Mom and talked to her, and yes I did tell her. I told her I was going to wait until I was done and feeling better and then tell her so she wouldn't have to worry, but I thought I would be in trouble if I did that. She confirmed I would have been.

I will talk to my sister in the next few days, she will be letting me know if she is pregnant. I should actually call her and make that its own conversation.

The lack of further details re: my surgery was not an intentional ommission, but an inadvertant one. I don't have any issues with the A&P repairs, they aren't weighing on my mind like the H is. I was/am totally focused on the H and haven't given any real thought to the other bits at all to be totally honest. Keri, no shutting me out please! You are too good for my brain! Pushing has been good for me, it has made me look outside of me and consider the others here. I am not really so self absorbed, but can't seem to get out of my own head lately. (just for the record, incontinence is not my issue...I have problems emptying my bladder) Your friend might have also had a bladder sling done.

I had my pre-op today. Met with the anaestesiologist re: my TMJ problem. Had a betahcg done. I was telling DH I had that test. His comment was it would be a real drag if it was + because then I couldn't have my surgery. I told him it could be worse. He said "Really???" with a look of total shock that something could be worse than being pregnant.

Tan, I am glad to hear the dr was thinking no ADHD. Is Tayga stressed out about anything? Maybe in your day you could include some time where Tayga has to keep himself occupied. It wouldn't have to be long, but enough for you to sit and have a cup of tea and rest your feet. It is impossible to go flat out all the time to keep him busy, you will run yourself ragged trying to keep that pace up. Too bad we don't live closer, my boys could help tucker him out!

I love the sound of the gypsy bracelet. I don't think it is too much for everyday wear. I think it would be a fun piece to wear, kind of like twirling a full skirt when I was younger. I like the idea of the hanging beads.

If I have a chance, I was thinking I should go back to the bead store and get a larger diameter carnelian. The bloodstone looks huge compared to it. Maybe the blood stone could be used sparingly or on the necklaces or something. I have faith in your artistic talents Keri. I too would love some pictures of your newest efforts.

Must try and sleep. I turned on my heating blanket so my bed will be all toasty. We are due to get 5-10cm more snow tonight. Maybe the boys will miss school and can go sled instead.

See you tomorrow.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Hi!







: Here we go again....

Tan, I'm glad you have been having fun, and that Tayga is ADHD-free. Has he always had sleep issues? I would blame every behavior issue he has on that alone. Sleep deprivation is not good. (Who am I to talk???)

Well, and if he's hungry....that could cause attention issues. I feel so sorry for picky eaters, it must really be a burden to find something that doesn't offend. Although I read an article about an adult picky eater who tested the theory that if you eat something 7 times, you get over not liking it. It worked for him, he was really surprised.

He is stubborn, if he would rather be hungry than eat something he doesn't like! He is going to climb mountains someday, go into space, solve world problems....

Very, very cool that you really got to know someone new! Well, not new, but new on this level. It will be interesting to see what T's chart reveals. Let us know how the class goes! It's so interesting to learn peoples' stories....you never know how much you have in common until you open up, I guess. Life lesson right there.

Mich, I'm not shutting you out! I'm just not pushing you anymore. My work here is done, you thought about things and explained yourself well. I don't push just to push, I do it because things aren't adding up in my mind. They add up now.

I'm relieved that you told your Mom. And that you plan on telling your sister. Call on those who will lend you support. And a separate conversation to discuss the H with your sister makes sense.

And you are not self absorbed, by a long shot. This is a big issue, it is worthy of lots of thought, and some gut reactions.

Good work on all the errands. It probably helps that you have had other surgeries, you know how to prepare for your own recovery.

Does your DH think all pregnancies will end in m/c? Is that why the negative reaction to the idea of the preg test? Or does he see it as a setback on the road to getting you 'repaired'? That was a bizarre statement---definitely not the right thing to say....I'll give him the benefit of doubt, due to good credit earned.

Brrr. My own DH has opened the door as many times as possible this morning, letting in all the subzero air. I can barely type, my fingers are so cold.

How am I, Tan? Funny you should ask. We met with our charting trainer lastnight, and she prepared us for the visit with the Big Doctor. Apparently she thinks he will run a month long battery of tests, ultrasounds throughout the cycle to measure follicle and egg size, hormone tests every other day for several days....and I am whiny about it. I'm so tired of this process. I was so relieved when the other Dr. just wrote us a prescription without any labs.

I know, I know. We should have as much info as possible to help us. I want to be prepared, we both do. It wears me down though. The thought exhausts me. It's not just the tests, it's also all the driving...the dr. is over an hour away, so lots of tests=lots of time, too.

And it keeps me out of work, when my poor Dad is overwhelmed and needs some help. He hurt his back shoveling snow, and can barely walk. And Mom needs so much help now. It is not a good time for him to be hurt, or for me to be absent.

Pressure. Aaaccck.

Hooray, beads are on their way! I will get pictures of Mom's 2 gypsy bracelets, the next time she comes into work. It's really cold, it may be a few days. They have some wire work on them, so we'll see if you like the look of that. The wire I have isn't particularly pretty, I need to shop for some that is....

Working on jewelry is good distraction for my brain. But I haven't been taking pictures, and I've been giving the bracelets away....

Gotta go out in this cold day!







(That's not just for warmth, I swear!)

Keri


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## Mammax4

Hello!

Perhaps we should start a sleep deprived woman thread. I bet there are a whole lot of them out there. Particularly from this forum. I would love to be able to turn my head off.

Keri, I am glad the results of the things in my head add up for you...wanna enlighten me?









I phoned my sister today and told her the date. Yep, she gave me crap for considering telling her after. (I am too honest I think...why did I share that thought with them?) The first thing she did was look at her calendar and see if there was any way for her to come out here and help me. She can't, it is insane for the next month. First she started giving me crap (in a razzing loving sister kind of way) for not telling me right away, but then when I pointed out it was only 7 of her working days that I had known for she realized it wouldn't have happened anyway.

Nope, DH doesn't think all pg's end in m/c's. It was just a true, this is where my head is kind of comment. Perhaps a little of the delayed surgery in his head. I don't know. I am not the best person to ask where his motivation comes from right now. I am not always sure. I must say I am not assuming the worst and reacting to that anymore. (right now anyway...) That is a step in the positive direction.

We only ended up with about 2 inches of more snow. I don't think this will stay for long, it was already melted more this afternoon than it had been all week. When we get snow, we are usually only dealing with it for a few days at most. The snow we have now has been around for at least a week. Crazy!

Keri, I am sorry you have such an overwhelming month ahead of you. Yes, you will have as much info as possible. That will help you for sure. It will be a long month to get all that info. Just remember we are here for you. We can listen if you need/want to whine. (more inspiration for that 'conference') Murphy's Law insists that you have too much on your plate when you can least afford to. I think that is his modus operandi. I guess your brother is working elsewhere now. (damned Murphy)








we are here for you Keri. Make use of our open ears and loving hearts. (I know you would anyway, but sometimes it is nice to hear it anyway)

Tan, I hope you are finding a moment of time to breath in your day. How much longer until your sister comes? Are they staying with you when they first arrive? Did they already find a place?

I am going to get Will off to bed. I may venture out and return some of the stuff I bought last night. I bought new hair stuff without smelling it. It gave me a huge headache when I smelled it last night. I am such a twit for not smelling it in the store.









Talk to you later.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Good warmer morning!

It is above zero (F) today--hooray! Yesterday about killed me, it was so cold, my feet never did warm up. It may get above freezing this weekend--woohoo!

Mich, you would be proud of me, I was in bed earlier than usual last night. I'm trying...

Why is your head still so busy? You are not talking enough are you? About the H, specifically...there is too much in your head, dump it out somewhere! Here, on the H forum, in a notebook, on a list...

That's not fair. If I were in your shoes I wouldn't be able to shut my head off either. It is time limited, at least.

Okay, what I have figured out....

--you have told your boys just enough about what it coming up, without pushing their comfort zone
--you have told your Mom and sister, after considering how it would affect them
--you aren't telling your BIL any details, as you do not want details circulated on that side of the family, and that is your right
--you have considered all options, and are proceeding with the plan that makes the most sense to you, primarily in concern to long term results
--this condition is unusual for a woman your age, and that is part of why you are holding the details so close, not to mention it is 'delicate' surgery, which is personal no matter the condition. ANY surgery is personal, and need not be discussed.

I hope that's accurate, and it helps to see it. You have covered a lot of mental and emotional territory in the last couple of weeks. You have engaged in some serious thought and introspection.

I wish you didn't have to.

Fill in some of the blanks, or correct my interpretation. I am so glad you called your sister. It was sweet of her to consider coming to take care of you, bless her heart! And can you imagine her reaction if you didn't tell her until after the fact? You have called on part of your support system, that is so very good for you.

My brother....I am viewing him differently these days. His unemployment may be an answer to some prayers, as he seems to be in places where he is needed. Interesting change of perspective.

He has been cleaning out an apartment in the house he lives in....his alcoholic neighbor finally drank himself to death. He was only 46, and was living in squalor. My brother had sort of befriended him, even employed him for awhile, but didn't get too close. I met him once, nice enough guy. Brother found out from the sisters of the deceased that he fell into alcoholism after he and his first wife lost a baby.

I'm sitting here crying for someone I didn't even know. And at the same time I am angry, that he let his child's legacy be his own destruction. And I am resolving that I not BE this man, that I will not let my own path be his. Some times I still struggle with the overpowering loss of 3...and it has changed my life, and I don't want it to anymore. I have the urge to backpedal, to try to undo what changes have occured. But I don't think I CAN.

Okay, I have reeled it back in. I am shocked at how this man's death has affected me, even before I knew what his turning point was. Maybe it was just time for me to cry again, and this was the catalyst. I don't know.

It is so powerful to see the big picture of someone who experienced the loss of a child. And to be scared for the people on this board, for us....

Sorry for the anchor. Didn't mean to drag anyone down.

Meditation:

Whoever survives a test, whatever it may be, must tell the story. That is his duty. ---Elie Wiesel

That's a tall order, isn't it?

Tan, you never told us about Gabriel's page in the scrapbook...

Okay, I'm gonna go cry in the bathtub, and get this out of my system. I really am okay, I'm not in the depths, I'm just overflowing at the moment.








Thanks so much for being here, even when I'm being kinda weird.

Keri


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## Mammax4

My friends,

It is amazing how some things can/do effect us so much more now. There is a real connection in understanding another persons loss. To have walked that path brings an instant connection even with strangers. I am sorry that your brother's neighbor suffered so much with (perhaps) so little support. That he was so profoundly, and ultimately fatally, turned by his loss is overwhelmingly sad. It indicates how we do suffer in silent isolation, and yet the room is full of others with similar experiences. It makes me want to shout from the rooftops so that things like this are less likely to happen. Knowing personally now how the hands of others can help you stand and find your new balance makes me want to do that for as many others as I can. I know I am in a different place than I would have been had it not been for the amazing women here that have supported me.

Thank you.

I think my head is just full of nervous anticipation. It isn't really processing anything new, just nerves.

One more thing to add re: BIL... I just can't imagine discussing the state of my vagina with him. That would totally weird me out. DH's sisters well, you know about one...the other one we don't even talk to. She is too wrapped up in her self destructive life that she was invited to stay away until she had a better grip on life.

I went shopping with a gf tonight. She knew I was having surgery, but not what kind. She asked me, "So what kind of surgery are you having anyway?" I told her to imagine the one kind of surgery she could never imagine me having.... she is such a smartass...she said a penile implant? I did tell her. I know she won't say anything. It was good for me to have to say it out loud. (I squirmed while saying it) She was so matter of fact about it she made me feel a bit better. She is in the health care field, so was a good resource for pre-op stuff I have to do.

Are you sure you are really okay Keri? Was this a good chance to shed some of your anxiety over what this next month will bring? or is there more?

Tan,







I know you are reading, even if you don't have time to post. (no pressure at all, just wanted to send you a hug)








Keri, you should know by now that we love you the most when you are being weird.









....tomorrow I find out if I am going to be an auntie again....until then...

Mich


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

U r right, I am reading ! Thanks for the hug. It felt nice to be thought of.

How are you feeling ?I wish I knew what to say to make you feel better.









Keri, how are you feeling ? Better I hope.









I will take a photo of the Gabriel's page and email it. It will do it more justice than my words.

I can't believe the holidays are nearly over. Tayga goes back to school on the 31 Jan. I always feel sad at the end. Wondering if I did enough with him, spent enough quality time, shouted too much blah blah blah.

My sister arrives in almost a weeks time. I am overwhelmed with it to be honest. I cannot beleive that the day has almost arrived. I have waited so long for it. Part of me is too scared to beleive it's happening, just in case it doesn't.

My cat has disappeared. We haven't seen her since tuesday. I'm hoping that she's gone on a long walk about and will return. That nothing bad has happened to her. Or no-one has taken her. She is a sweet, friendly little cat. I didn't think I'd miss her, but I do. It's here presence. We bought her for Tayga afer Gabriel died. So he could have someone to transfer his love to. Which he did.

I'm off to shower and sleep. I had a loooong day today. Jamie was up early. Then Tayga, Jamie and myself spent most of the day at a kids science museum. It was fun, but tiring.

Hugs to you all
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi Tan and Mich.

Yeah, I'm okay. Still deeply and profoundly disturbed by the situation, and confused as to the strength of the emotion.

Mich, I think you have nailed the message, though....it ties is so closely with the meditation. It is sort of our responsibility to share our suffering, so as to help others who suffer. I think that explains my compulsion to post on this board, on other threads. But how to translate that into real life? That is much harder, much trickier, much more revealing.

And I thank both of you also, and the other kind women on this board. My DH said 2 days ago, he had been worried that I may not ever really recover from the 3rd loss, and he recognizes this board was a huge factor in my doing better with it all.

He also said he worried about his own state...he understood why the death of my brother's neighbor affected me, I think it kinda scared him too. Sometimes I wonder if DH needs more support, if there's more that needs to come out. All of our DH's actually.

I'm not really all that anxious about all of the doctoring. I know what is there to find, I'm not expecting any surprises. That produces more anxiety than anything. I've seen my reproductive organs, I have photos of them. They are creepy looking, but fine. I'm more nervous about the mammogram.

I do want all the testing over with though, as I am tired of being a lab rat.

My Mom's condition is weighing on me more than anything else. I am pushing my Dad mercilessly to get a freaking appointment made at Mayo.

Blah. My own head drives me insane. Would either of you like to crawl in there with a flashlight, and drive out some of the bats?







:

Mich, I am glad you told your friend about the H. And she is funny! But it is good practice at being kind of matter-of-fact about it, and leaning on a friend a bit. I am glad she is a pre-op resource. And it is good for you to let some of this information out, I hope some anxiety goes with it.

Point made with BIL. Why is your DH's family ummmm, subfunctional? You don't have to get into that if you don't want to. It sounds very much like my friend's Dad's family...he has a nice, normal life, and all of my friend's aunts and uncles are a mess.

Tan, thanks for the hug, and for answering about Gabriel's page in the scrapbook. I would love to see it.

Here's some more parental perspective for you....I don't think my Mom ever took us to a museum. You spend all kinds of quality time with Tayga! Don't worry, we can tell what kind of Mom you are by the things you say here, and you are fantastic!









Sorry to hear about your kitty. I remember you talking about her, how it was hard for you to be around a baby anything after you lost Gabriel. Does she hold special significance because of that, or the timing?

It guess it doesn't matter, pets are a part of the family. I hope she has been off to see the queen and is back safely soon.

Tan, I still need your wrist or bracelet measurement, so I can make you practice bracelets!

We are all biding time. Mich, for the H, Tan, for your sister, me, for the appointments.

Meditation:
We are real friends now because we have been able to share some painful experiences in our private lives. --May Sarton

Isn't that the truth?

Take care, friends.

Keri


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## Mammax4

Tan and Keri,

Tan,







here is another one for good measure!

I have learned the trick to seeing a post from you. Your manners are too good, when someone asks you a question, you have to answer!! (tee, hee) I am sorry to hear about your missing kitty. We have 2 and our boy went missing for 5 days once. I was very sad, thinking he wouldn't come back. Well, lo and behold if he wasn't locked in our neighbors shed. He was hungry and happy to be home. I hope your kitty comes home to you very soon.

I am glad you will have your sister there. It is nice to have family around (most of the time







) I know you will be busy for the next few weeks for sure. What is your school schedule like? It doesn't seem all that long ago that Tayga was just finished. We have a week off in March, all of July and August and two weeks at Christmas.

Edmonton has a great science museum (Odysseum). Vancouver has a neat building that houses a really lame science museum. You could spend days at the Odysseum and never see the same thing twice. And although you question yourself, yes...you did spend lots of great time with Tayga. I bet if you had a moment to think about all you have done you would be surprised.

I too am looking forward to seeing Gabriel's page. How about Tayga and Jamie too? or is that too demanding? (give me a page, I want a million)

Keri, that meditation is bang on. That should be on the back of our raging lunatics shirts.

Now my turn to be nosey...(feel free to ignore as needed)

What do you know they will find? I know you have mentioned an auto immune issue, but am not aware of anything else. What bothers you about the mammogram? the pancake formerly known as your breast? do you have risk factors?

I understand your worry about your Mom. Do you think she may be tired of being a lab rat? Maybe she is afraid to find out what it is because she doesn't want to face it. It is hard for people that are of the 'more info is not enough info' mind set. There are others that are happier to bury their heads in the sand. I am sure it is difficult for everyone, the unknown leads to more speculation of a negative kind. I am sorry that this is such a struggle for you. Do you think you could sit down and talk to your Mom about this? Maybe if you heard why she was hesitating it might help?

I am glad that your DH understands your sadness for your brother's neighbor. It makes warm fuzzies come when they share a moment like that doesn't it? Even in the midst of sadness, an opportunity for a connection taken - you have a keeper! (not that you don't already know that.)

Dh's family are all pretty much subfunctional. Some more so than others. I don't know where all that comes from. DH is the only 'normal' one of the bunch. The youngest never had to become self sufficient, her parents would always hand out the $$ to her and blow off any less than pleasant stuff that came up. The others... you got me. They all have esteem issues (big time). My DH was his Mom's favorite. Maybe that made the difference. Funny how a famiy that was a traditional family (no steps or half sibs) can turn out such messed up kids. BIL is getting better everyday. Being in a positive environment, not walking on eggshells makes a huge difference. He gets the wind taken from his sails every once in a while, but is recovering faster from that too.

I know that my h provided you an opportunity to focus elsewhere, but now I am wondering what is going on in your brain. Are you ready for this month, both from a testing and potential pregnancy point of view? Ignoring the outside stuff, how are you doing? (without your Mom etc...) Have you and your DH sat down and talked about all that is coming up? Perhaps you could be a support for each other?

That is the hard part...making ourselves vulnerable. Sharing such a private, painful part. The first time would be the hardest. Not that it would ever be easy, but perhaps less difficult. If you don't share it, it can eat you alive. The more I think about it, the more I think I should start to 'shake the branches' and see what can be done through the hospital.

I called my sister today. She was very cranky. Her urine test came out negative and she is waiting for the blood test results. She says she won't know for sure until the blood work is back. I understand how hard it is to try not to get too excited...it is a difficult task for sure. I am confident she expected a positive result, which would make that even harder.

That is my very long story tonight.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

And finally, Friday...

It is a pretty morning here, sunny and snow covered.

Mich, I've been talking with you about the H because that's truly what is on my mind. I am more concerned about your upcoming trials than anything on my schedule.

All my appointments are kinda non-issues for me, a hassle more than anything. I'm not worried because I've had all the tests that are available for someone in my shoes....there will be no surprises. They will likely confirm the suspected progesterone issue, and perhaps have something to say about the autoimmune.

The mammogram bothers me because it's a status thing. I'm being lumped in with menopausal women, I'm in a different group now. You know exactly what I mean. I haven't done my childbearing yet, the mammogram reminds me of how behind the times I am. Yuck.

And I expect it to be uncomfortable, therefore unpleasant. And cold. What a dumb time of year to schedule this. No risk factors in my family, thank heavens. We have other genetic health issues, but not breast cancer.

We had been gearing up to ttc, so I am a little frustrated that a month of testing is likely to be the plan. Stop start stop start. And I worry a bit about age...if I can carry a pregnancy, delivering at age 37 is out. Now we are looking at 38. And if we can't, time is usually an issue with adoption. I just didn't want to be such an old mommy. There comes a point where I think it's pretty unfair to a child....

But these things are always in the back of my mind. I've talked about them before. They can't get out of my head until we have a baby, I guess.

My Mom...she's willing to go to Mayo, but yesterday wouldn't get off the couch to get us some insurance info. Maddening. She is willing, but not helpful, so I question her willingness.

I think my Mom had been preparing herself for ALS, which is what her mom and grandma died from. And there are no real treatments for that, so acceptance is a good option. Now she has something similar, and since they can't diagnose it, I think she is ready to...give up. Use her same strategy for coping that she planned for the ALS.

She is talking about handing over the bill paying duties to my Dad. She can't write a check? WTH? She is grooming me to take over her bookkeeping duties at work. Ummm, she is having trouble walking. She is still on fire on an adding machine. I do not want her to retreat from life, and spend all her time on a couch watching the idiot box.

I'm not sure I can broach this subject with her. I will think about it. She is one of the least self-aware people I know, so she may not have answers for me anyway. Introspection is not her thing.

I want to go get lost in the Odysseum. Who's with me?

Mich, sorry that this try for your sister doesn't look like it worked. That's got to be an excruciating process.

I'm tearing up for your sister. That's how I am--weepy. Not depressed, not even all that sad. Just weepy.








Normal families are not supposed to produce messed up kids. Throw me some hope here! That is the sort of thing that made me think twice about having kids in the first place....you see people who seemingly were good parents, and the kids turn out scary.

I have massive control issues.

Anyhoo, I am very glad that your BIL is doing better. His ex must have been pretty evil.

What 'shaking the branches' are you thinking of doing? Spill.

Tan? What's going on? Are you ending T's summer with a blaze of activity?

I'm going to take my insane self and join the outside world. Wish me luck!

Oh yes, the lunatic is back.

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Lunatic ..... I mean Keri !!!

Wow, you have a lot of 'noise' going on in your head.

I hope your mom is ok. It's really frustrating and scary when your parent gets sick. My mom was sickly for years. I hated it. I wanted to shout 'you're not allowed to get sick, be ok'.
I was often the parent and my mom the child in our relationship.

I would imagine that your mom is terrified. Especially knowing that she has what her mom and grandma had.

Lots of woman have mamograms. Especially with breast cancer being discussed and made aware of. You don't have to be menopausal to have a mamogram.

You're doing well. Just keep swimming, just keep swimming ....

Mish, I hope it worked out for your sister.
How are you feeling ? Ready ?

I have been busy running here and there. Yesterday I met with a friend and her kids at a play centre. Tayga and the other boys played and had fun for a few hours. My friend and I were able to catch up and drink coffee ! Haven't done that in a while (catch up !). It was fun.

Today I was going to take Tayga and Jamie into the city and have fun. The weather is a bit erratic today. It's been raining on and off the whole morning. Although I'm game to get rained on, it's not pleasant or convenient. I don't feel like walking around the city getting wet.
Besides Tayga decided that he wants to go ten pin bowling. I had promised him we could go in the holidays. So once Jamie wakes from his lunchtime sleep, we're going bowling !!
DH is at his scuba diving course the whole weekend. What a pain, but it's nice for him. Good for him to have a hobby that he enjoys.

I don't know what I'll do with the kids tomorrow.

Keri, I finally remembered to measure my wrist !! Right this second actually !! My measurement is 18cm. Going to try and look for beads soon.

My sister arrives on friday night. YAY !!!!! this week I'll be busy tidying and cleaning the house. She'll stay with me until the find a place.

School goes back 31 January. The school year is divided into 4 school terms across the year. Beginning in January and ending in December.
Hopefully he'll have a better year this year.
The holidays have seem to have gone by quickly. It hasn't been too bad !

Keri I thought the last meditation was really good. Thanks.

Please tell me which family is 'normal'? I don't think any family is perfect. Everyone has their problems.

I'm off to get ready, so when Jamie wakes up we can go !

Btw, do you know any good websites that I can look at to get ideas for my ring ? I thought I had a style that I liked, but now I'm unsure.

Chat later
Tan


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## Mammax4

Ladies,

I thought I had better make time to post as we were almost on page 2 for the first time ever!

I have been taking it easy, getting ready for my surgery.... only 3 more sleeps.









My sister was, unfortunately, unsuccessful. She was pretty upset when I spoke to her on Thursday. In better humor when she called on Sunday. She told me that she expected to be pregnant this time, it was a rude awakening when it was negative. Oh how much easier it would be if we could make things happen on our own schedule.

Keri, I was discussing with DH how I would do the same for you. (research medical treatments/surgeries) It is nice to be on the receiving end of that gesture of caring and compassion. Thank you.









I understand your age concerns, but numeric age is not equal to your self, your state of mind. There are also some benefits to being older as a new parent. I know I am at a different place now than I was when I was 22. My DH was 35 when our first was born and 45 when our final was born. I agree that those swirls in your head will probably not calm down until you have a babe in arms. There are some things that just defy one's ability to settle them, they have a life of their own. Soon my friend, they will calm.

Has your Mom been checked for depression? All these changes in such short order could have that kind of effect. I too would find it difficult to watch her give in to what ever it is that ails her. You want to keep her around, she needs to not give in. Perhaps she needs her own 'raging' space.

I would love to go to the Odysseum with you! We were there 2 1/2 years ago. I would love to take the boys again, Will was just a baby so he didn't participate in anything.

BIL's ex would be the picture listed under evil in the dictionary. It is unfortunate it took him as long as it did to see her. He is getting better - most days - somedays it is one step forward, two back other days he makes more headway. He will get there eventually.

I think 'normal' is like 'perfect' - impossible. We have to do the best we can with what we have. I am not sure what the 'normal' family environment was like in DH's home. There were some messed up things that were pretty 'normal' behaviours for the time. I like to think that I will be 'better' for my children because of my life's experiences. I know the things I want to be different for my kids, I know I need to balance my challenges growing up with my own guys home life. They need to be kids, but also need some responsibilities. Heck, who knows how it will all turn out... I know that we are better communicators with our kids, less dictatorial than we experienced. We don't use corporal punishment either, but that is a whole other subject.

I am sorry you are re-hashing with new appointments for already known issues. Perhaps they will see something differently though. From the sounds of it, your former RE was not quite on the ball as you might like someone with that specialty to be.

Tan, only 3 more sleeps until your sister comes!! Keri and I need to come for a pajama party! I am sorry you are so close to the end of the school holiday. Will Tayga's cousin(s) be going to that school too? Great self care, especially tied in with playtime for the kids. Days like that make time disappear in the blink of an eye.

There was an article in the newspaper here today that said both Melbourne and Victoria (BC) are tied for 25th place... of least affordable places to live. Yikes! Maybe we should move to Nebraska. Is it bad there Keri?

My boys are great bowlers... sad but true, Will kicked my but last time we went 5 pin. And that was without anyone bowling for him. It is a fun thing to do with the kids for sure. We do the laser bowling sometimes, do you have that there? (black lights and disco lights)

I am going to go and put Will to bed. I hope that you are both doing well.

Talk to you later.

Micheline


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

I've been thinking of you. I hope your in a good space at the moment. Are you nervous ?

Sorry to hear about your sister. How frustrating for her.

I've made an appointment with the paediatrician for Tayga. I'm not going to rest until I know for sure if he is ADHD or not. We're going 6 Feb. Same day as you Keri.
I just feel that if he is, I want to get onto it right away. If he isn't, I can stop worrying about it.

My cat hasn't come back yet ? :-(

THe past few days have been busy. Wow, the school holidays make me exhausted. Especially if Tayga doesn't have any play dates organised.

Getting organised and ready for my sister and her family. Been trying to get housework done, inbetween keeping Tayga busy.

I'm off to shower and bed. I'm tired !

Chat soon
Tan :yawning:


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## lolalapcat

Hi guys.

Tan, you were right, my head was full of noise. I took a few days off from posting, so I could ignore everything for a while. Of course, that doesn't make anything go away....

Mich,







Just a couple more days. Then you will be on the other side of the H. Thinking of you lots, lots, lots.

Oooh, I'd love it if you'd move to Nebraska! Cost of living is quite low, taxes are a shade high (lots of state to maintain, not a lot of taxpayers). They are hiring at DH's workplace right now, too! This is a nice place to live. Not exciting, but good. It will be better as soon as they repair the village water main....

Mammogram--yuck. Quite unpleasant. I suggest a painkiller and a shot of vodka prior to procedure. Actually, that should be general medical advice!

40 minute wait to have my blood drawn yesterday. That frustrates the living hell out of me. Next Monday, when my appointment is 40 minutes late, I am going to talk with my doctor about my extreme dissatisfaction with the clinic's scheduling. Like the doctor, can't stand the clinic.

All of the testing they may be doing on me next month may yield info that helps them 'fine tune' the hormone supplementation, so it will be worth doing.

Normal families---I count normal families as Mom and Dad, both present, no major issues like abuse or mental illness. It's a relative term. Families fall on a continuum. I guess I pretty much mean 'intact family' by normal.

I was raised in a 'normal' family. My parents' marriage has always been on the unhealthy side, and my Mom used to 'spank' when she lost her temper, so those were our biggest issues.

Mich, I am not completely against corporal punishment, but I think it should be used extremely sparingly. Not the way I was raised, but the way DH was raised. He remembers both times he got spanked. The message resonated. I don't remember why I got spanked, it happened so often. And my Mom wonders why I'm not nicer to her.

Tan, the neurologist thinks my Mom does NOT have what her mom and grandma did. That's part of the confusion, that she thought she knew what the diagnosis would be, but there is no diagnosis. Waiting to hear back from Mayo, to see if they will take on her case. Unexpected result, I thought they would at least meet with just about anyone.

She has always struggled with depression. Not massive clinical depression, but low grade, consistent depression. I cannot imagine her talking with her doctor about it. My brother and I have talked a lot about what we can do about it.....not much.

We are battling now...she calls me at work to tell me to do her bookwork, but she micromanages every little bit of it. Even though it is numbers, add and subtract, pretty concrete, she has her own voodoo methods that she expects me to understand without explanation. Anyway, it's a giant case of "Do it, oh you didn't do it right". AAAAAaaaaaaaaahhhhhh! 15 again!

Tan, I'm sorry your kitty is still AWOL. That's sad.

I'm glad you have an appointment for Tayga...we'll keep each other posted!

Mich, I'm sorry your sister is caught up in the process, and hope it works out for her eventually. Oh, she would find a lot of support on the fertilichat boards....really, really nice people. I didn't fit there, but lurked for a while.

Meditation:

Life only demands from you the strength you possess. Only one feat is possible--not to have run away. Dag Hammarskjold

Here's to not running away!










Keri


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## Mammax4

A quick one this time.... (if you can believe that)

Keri, I have been thinking alot about you these past few days. I am sad for what these days have not brought you. Know that you are on my mind and in my heart.









Sounds like we grew up in the same 'spare the rod, spoil the child' house. I remember having wooden spoons broken while being used on me. One time, my stepmom chased me around the house with a metal wok spatula. Honestly, I was probably a pain in the ass at times, but I wasn't a bad kid. Not that I think it is justified to hit kids that are 'bad'. (I am not real keen on that bad kid idea...kids aren't bad, the behaviours are what can be bad) The problem I have with spanking is two part, do as I say, not as I do... and when spanking is done in anger. I will agree that there are times where it could be an effective 'shock' method, especially if used infrequently.

Tan, I am excited for you to have your sister coming.







:








Try to balance the getting the house ready with a little down time. Are you cleaning like a crazy woman? Do you have room to fit your sister and her family for a while? I too am sad your kitty has not returned. Good for you for wanting to confirm with the pediatrician. You can't live wondering/worrying, it's not good for you. I hope the appointment goes well.

Two more sleeps. Busy brain. Taking Zantac (acid reducer). Have lost 6lbs since getting surgery date. Looking forward to all this being done. Perhaps then my head will be less busy, sleep will come a little easier? All that AND, I got AF today! lucky me. (NOT)

Have a good day.

Micheline


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## Mammax4

Alright, I am double posting now....double meaning two back to back. I am not sure how crazy my head will be tomorrow, so thought I would get to you now.

I have stocked up on all the things we need (for the next few years!) I wanted to make sure that I didn't have to go anywhere, as DH doesn't have a Costco card. He can get the staple items as needed.

I will be away for 3-4 days apparently. I am not sure if the first day in counts or not, probably because I am the first cut of the day. I have lots of prep and packing to do tomorrow. I will spare you the details.

Tan, Keri got my bead package today...pressure is on darlin'!! It's not like you have a million and one things to do in the near future!







One more on the list - aren't you excited? What are you getting?? I have forgotten.

Keri, keep the design ideas flowing. My vote is for one of the dangly ones. I was pleased with how nicely the beads looked (colour wise) I bet they look great with the tourmaline.

I will order those charms if they are agreeable to you both. I will do that while I am in recoup mode next week. I figure I will be okay enough to sit in a chair and have a little retail therapy.

I will try and check in tomorrow, but in the event I can't post...see you when I get home. Take care of each other. I will miss you both - it will be weird not to talk to you both for a few days.

Mich


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## Tan II

Mish, sending you lots of hugs and good luck. I hope you are not too uncomfortable and in too much pain.

I will be thinking of you and sending you good wishes.








Good luck my friend.

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hello, fellow lunatics!

Thanks, Mich, that means a lot. I know they are just days, but there is still a weight that goes with it. Of course, you know. You are carrying the same weight, only amplified. It seems like a million years since I miscarried that baby, not a mere 7 months. And if people remembered, they sure as hell didn't say anything.

You don't have to spare us details. Lay them on us. I have a pretty good idea of what some of the prep is---generally unpleasant.

Corporal punishment---is it always the oldest kid that gets the brunt of the spanking? My brother is older, and he is the one who got spanked with objects. I never was, I learned how to avoid it. And you are right, he was a good kid who behaved badly on occasion. But the liberal use of spanking during my childhood is what makes me primarily against it. I do not equate spanking with abuse, I do equate most spanking with a parent losing control.

The bloodstone, carnelian and tourmaline are smashing together, really a sophisticated color combination! Mich, are you talking about the ribbon charms? I'm a little lost in details. No rush, of course.

Tan, is your house all ready for your sister? The countdown is on! Is she older or younger than you? And your brother? He's younger, as I recall. When does school start? So much going on all at once! And Jamie teething...you must be burning the candle at both ends these days.

Ah, the stress and anxiety diet. BTDT. Actually, mine was the stress and grief diet, which may be what you are on. Hooray, Zantac!

Mich, it's almost here, which means it's almost over. Tomorrow, it will be done, and you will start healing. No more anticipation, just the job at hand.

It's very good you are the first appointment of the day. Less waiting.

Would you ask your DH if he would email Tan and me after your surgery, to let us know how you are doing, please, please? I know he will have a lot to do, but just a quick note would set my mind at ease.








I'm keeping you in my prayers, Mich. If I don't see you here this evening, I will see you in a few days. Take good, good care of yourself.

Keri


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## Mammax4

Yes, I meant the ribbon charm; the one with the hole at each ribbon end. I like the potential for many things - the other 2 RL's birthdays is the one that stands out most to me.

Down 8lbs now. I am not to worried about that, I had gained 10 since getting pg (5 + 5 after m/c) so my clothes are fitting a little better.

The boys were asking me how surgery would be performed (and what I was having done) last night. I told them about the lap and they were wondering about all that gas... boy, they came up with some doozies about how big my belly is going to be. Will decided I would look like I had 20 babies in my tummy. Dan is pretty quick, he was wondering if a woman's uterus could be removed. I didn't confirm I was having that done, but told them about hernias in my private parts - explaining a little better the how's and what's.

We beat you to your request Keri. Greg has an email in the draft folder to send to you once he has seen me after surgery. He is not so computer oriented, so wanted me here to supervise and direct. He will put the body together and let you know how things went. Plan for short sweet and to the point. You could certainly reply with questions if you want, he will answer them.

Thanks for all the good wishes and thoughts, it means alot to me. Have a good few days without me... I will maybe even email a goodbye to you, as I am going to be up at 4 am!! If I even bother trying to sleep.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Mich--

Thanks for having the Information Highway set up! You have all your bases covered, don't you? You even thought of us, you sweet, dear person, when you have so many other things to think about.

Please try to get some sleep tonight...even if it doesn't work well. A little rest still counts.

Your boys are really intuitive, aren't they? It is good that they were asking questions. Information is a good thing, in most cases. But I would think it would help put their minds at ease.

Wow. I can't believe it's here already. Tomorrow, all the waiting and anticipation will be over. Good.

Oh, my 40-something friends had their baby this morning, a little boy. I am incredibly happy for them, and really okay with it. Scary though, he had the cord wrapped around his neck---it may have been a real problem, except he was delivered C section.

Mich, take care. I'm by your side in spirit.

Keri


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## lolalapcat

Nervously awaiting an update. Mich, you were in my thoughts from the first second I got up today.









Tan, your sister is almost here!







I am so happy for you!

Has your friend done the astrological chart on Tayga yet? I am very curious about what it may tell you. A friend did my chart years ago, I would like to get my hands on it and reread it. It's in a box in the basement, no doubt!

I'm going to dedicate some time to bracelets this weekend...Tan, pick a color: green, blue, pink, gray, purple. That will give me something to go on!

Mich, you can pick colors when you get back!

Miss you both.

Keri


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

My sister arived last night ! Yaya ! It's so cool having her here. Although we both agreed that it felt like we had seen each other yesterday !
It's still mind boggling to think that she'll be here for ever !









I don't have the chart for Tayga yet. My friend is doing mine. I am meant to be going on the course to do Tayga's, but I don't know if I'm going to do it. It's the whole day. I can't expect my sister to look after Jamie the whole time, and I obviously can't take him with either. So I don't know what I'm going to do.

Colours I like in preferance ... pink, blue, grey ! I went to a bed shop yesterday, but they didn't have any agate. I'll go to another one next week. I'll try to get it done asap.

Mish, I hope you are doing alright.

Keri, how are you doing ? I hope there isn't too much noise in your head.

DH is doing his scuba diving course this weekend ! He's diving in the sea today. He is so excited.

Got to go. Will chat soon.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan--

I hope Mich is doing well too. I'm anxiously awaiting information.

Hooray! I am so happy for you!







You and your sister are going to have so much fun, and it will be nice to have someone so dear so close to you.

Are the boys excited about their Aunt being there?

Once again, I wish I was there--I would babysit Jamie so you could take the class! I'm still waiting for the chance to babysit our godson...

My head is newly full. I was doing better dealing with everything, but Dad got a letter yesterday saying the Mayo Clinic is declining Mom's case, so we worked on other research type facilities yesterday afternoon.

And Scott picked up our medical records from the RE, so I sat here reading those last night. Yuck. The terminology, oh mercy. It was not a good way to end the day. I need to file those away until Feb 6th, I don't want to think about them anymore. It's history, it shouldn't bother me so much. But it does.

But we have friends coming to dinner tonight (make your own pizza!) and we are going to play 80's trivia games. Fun! I need some fun. Tomorrow I am going to continue working in the basement, then play with jewelry.

Bead hunting can be overwhelming, can't it? The colors of beads so far are deep green and deep red, so if you can't find agate, get whatever you like! You also liked amber and onyx, right?

Thanks for checking in! I thought you would be so busy with your sister's arrival, that I wouldn't hear from you for a few days, so you just made my morning!

Hope your weekend is ducky!

Keri


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## Mammax4

A quick note to let you know I am here.

Tan, I am glad your sister arrived...now the next project is to get baby brother to you both. Hopefully he will miss you both so much he will come along in short order.

Keri, I am pleased to see you have added a signature. It is a difficult thing to lay your losses out there for others to see. Good for you! I am proud of you for deciding to do that.

Sorry the update failed. DH is not computer saavy and thought it had been sent, when in fact it was sitting in the draft folder still.

I will get back to you when I am better able to sit here for longer.

Until then....









Mich


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## lolalapcat

Mich, it is good to have you back!









I so hope that the surgery cured your discomfort, and hope the recovery goes well so you can find out.

How is your head? It was kind of a whirlwind leading up to the H, so much to think about, so little time.

Tan, how is your head? I'm not sure if you are just in a better place, or if Mich and I have so much drama you are staying quiet about your own stuff.

DH and I had a nice time yesterday. More bead shopping, it is now an obsession, and a late lunch in a quiet restaurant. DH bought me some beads, things that I had looked at then passed over. He is so sweet!

I now have the prettiest blue lace agate, 8mm beads, and some very pretty rose quartz rondelles (like regular beads flattened). How can I share them with other women who have gone through what we have? I've thought about making a handful of necklaces, and seeing if the hospital could give them when the occasion arises. I don't know if that is the time, though. I was in too much agony in the hospital to consider any form of commemoration, that desire came later. What to do, what to do.

Tan, I worked on a bracelet for you, but haven't put it together--I'm still perfecting a layout. My aunt's birthday is the same day as our appointments, so I made a bracelet for her lastnight, gold wirework with lots of earthy orangey colors. So not my colors, which made it really fun for a change.

She is a favorite, my other godmother (I had 2, no godfathers) and is the aunt who could not have children. We never knew she WANTED children, until I started having m/c's. Now even my uncle has made references to having no one to pass things down to. Seems like they needed someone to whom they could relate.

Regular check up today. Yippee. At least it is a non-pain-inducing appointment. Oh, except for the vaccinations. Really need an updated tetanus, so I'm going to get the full DPT. Pertussis is making a comeback in the US, and I have always been susceptible to chest colds. Oh, and a flu shot. That is prep for trying to get pregnant again, I've never had one before.

Yak yak yak. Tan, did you have fun, fun, fun with your sister this weekend? I'm jealous! My brother is so not about long lunches and shopping!

Mich, recover fast! You are a pro at surgeries at this point, I expect great things!

Happy Monday.

Keri


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## Tan II

Hey Guys

I am def around and well ! The computer is in the same room my house guests are staying in. So it is impossible to have a chance !! I have to grab time here and there, inbetween kids sleeping and my sister house hunting !

I hope you are all ok. I will find time to chat properly. Just wanted to let u know I am around !

Will ask dh to set up a laptop for me if he can somewhere else in the house !

Got to go. Too many people around !

Big hugs
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi Tan! It sounds like chaos reigns at your house, but it's the good type.

Hey, Mich!

Brrrr. It is cold here this morning, and will be getting colder all week. Hmm, I wonder if my car will start today---it didn't yesterday, on a day I had an appointment to get to! The truck has a better heater, so it might be nice to drive it again....

Dr Appointment Update: The thyroid antibodies that are associated with m/c are up. I do not know if that means our risk of m/c goes up...I haven't yet researched obsessively. Spot on my nose (like an overgrowth of skin) has to come off and be sent to the lab. Dr. will carve it off next Thursday, yippee. Dense mass in one breast, thought to be benign--should I be concerned? Dunno.

Not such a great visit, although I only had to wait 25 minutes. Dr. asked extensively about my Mom's condition, and about our RE and most recent m/c history. She hugged me and asked if I need some help. I told her I had you, and that I really was doing okay given the circumstances. Which I am, pretty much, although the burden is increasing.

My Dad is the best....he had a cup of Mogan David waiting for me on the desk when I got to work after the appointment, said "I thought you might need this." God bless him! And he's not one to make me drink alone, so there we sat at noon, drinking wine and talking about life.

Northwestern University has responded to Dad's request for a consultation for Mom. They sounded very interested in her case, and asked for copies of her medical records. I have to make multiple copies of mine, so will do hers also. A tiny bit of hope...

Oh, the other good news--my cholesterol numbers are spectacular. Hooray for taking after Dad!

There have been other times in my life when stress was heaped on me. I kept my calendar from my last semester in college, just to prove I could survive and not even realize I was doing it. Full time school getting a degree I wasn't sure about, working a full time job that I was burned out on, doing an internship so I could graduate, my sweetheart dumped me for someone else, and I was sick all of the time so figure in lotsa dr appts. And my friends were surprisingly absent. It was so hard....I need to find that calendar, and use it for some perspective. This isn't so bad.

Mich, thanks for commenting on my signature. I finally figured out how to do it! It did take a lot for me to put the losses out there...I feel like a bit of a pariah, the woman nobody wants to be, someone to avoid in case I may be contagious. But honesty is something I strive towards. So there they are.

Okay, happy distraction: When bead shopping, DH and I found some other interesting stone beads...labradorite, kyanite and rhodonite. I am a woman obsessed! I'm going to write tiny little legends of all the stones meanings, and put them with the beads.

Gotta run, the boss is at a funeral this morning, so I should get to work to cover for him.

Hope all is well for you!









Keri


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## lolalapcat

Mich, recovering. Tan, hosting houseguests. Sad, sad.

Last week I picked up an Oprah magazine, and wouldn't you know it, there was a story on one couple's harrowing journey through the world of infertility. I read it thinking, cripes, I don't think I could go to THOSE lengths....but look at what I have done...lotsa painful icky things. When does a person stop and say, 'this has gone too far?'

I'm not saying I'm stopping, because hopefully the worst is over. But reading that article has made me step back and look at our situation a little more objectively.

I would like to erase my brain clean for a day or two. Is that asking too much?

Today's meditation talks about the company of other people as a healing thing, and being open with them when you are not a bundle of happiness, but still need some company....where was that advice when I needed it?

Hope you are both doing okay....

Keri


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## Mammax4

Tan and Keri -

Yep, I lurked yesterday...don't like to spend too much time in the uncomfortable chair we have at the computer.

One of the families I work with gave me a gift bag of a few magazines and some candies for my trip to the hospital...that Oprah magazine was in it. I read the article yesterday. I couldn't help but relate to it and think of both you Keri, and my sister. After I had my first reversal, I was told IVF was the only thing I could do to have another child. I was willing to do that. It is amazing what that babylust can/does do to people. That woman's experience is not out of the 'norm' for those that need Assisted Reproductive Therapy. (ART) You think that you will only go 'so' far and yet when you reach that point and are not successful it is hard not to take the next step. Especially when you look at the increases in positive results. We had to pay for both reversals, our second reversal was done because the RE said our chances were good without any additional assistance. We paid for both surgeries, that was about $10,000.
I know the insanity....

Keri, I am sorry you are having things heaped onto your plate instead of wiped off. That is bad timing...what doesn't kill you makes you stronger?? WTH??...someone has a sick sense of humor with regards to you as well perhaps?

I can relate to your feeling like a pariah...I feel like keeping all pregnant women away from me - almost like the loss is catching. With the first pg around me ending in loss and my sister not having a successful IVF procedure, it seems like bad luck to have me around while trying to conceive. I know that it really has nothing to do with me, but it still feels bad anyway.

So, Keri...are you making DH a bead junkie too? Is he happy to participate as it is like a therapy he is assisting with? or is he just too darn sweet for words and just wants to spoil you? or, does he like you to have a focus? My DH has come to realize I can be (am) relentless when I get my head into something. I am really focused and 'one track minded'. It is true... I too am a research junkie. Put something on my radar and watch out. I will come up for air only when I have found more than you would want to know (not more for me, I need to know all about it, so I know all the options etc)

DH is going for a nice long drive and hang out at our favorite beach on the island. He will be gone all day. I have asked him to try and find some cool rocks or shells for me. We collect that kind of thing - some of us are obsessive about it. (ummm...that would be me and Dan)

Tan, I am glad your sister is with you, even if it means hearing less from you at the moment. We can share you, we will be waiting here when you have some more time. I hope Tayga's first days of school are going well.

Keri, just know that we are with you while your plate runneth over. Vent, rage, laugh, cry... what ever you need.

I need to go bead shopping...I wonder if I could get DH to take me...I can't drive yet, not allowed. Someone want to come drive me?? I promise I won't lift anything too heavy. I am going to get out of this chair now.

Have a good day my friends.









Mich.


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## Tan II

Hi Mish & Keri

Mish, I'm happy to hear you are recovering. You sound like you are doing ok. Are you ?
I hope you are not too sore, and that you are also nt too bored. Too much time is not a good thing if u r doing nothing.

Keri, I hope you are feeling ok too. You have a lot going on at the moment. I hope you're not drowning. How is your mom ? What is the next step ?
How are you feeling about next week's appointment ?

Tayga's first day at school was fantastic. He loved it. On the way home he said...' and you know what else I love about my new school ......" !!!! Wow, love and school were never in the same sentence before !

Hopefully this good attitude towards school continues. I had a little chat to his teacher. I just said to her that I didn't want to label him, but so she knows what head of her. He can be difficult and is strong willed, but he is a kind, friendly polite child too. That I was happy to offer her support in any way if she needed it. She thanked me and said she would keep her eyes on him. That I musn't worry, should there be any issues she'll let me know.
What a relief. It is so good being at the new school. Makes me wonder why I didn't do it earlier. I suppose better later than never.

I had a crap morning with Tayga though. We had an argument and I lost my temper and shouted and was mean. I can't even remember what we fought about. I did apologise afterwards. Telling him I was wrong and that I was sorry. Now I sit thinking I'm screwing up my child and wrecking his self esteem because I 'see red' too quickly. He knows how to push my buttons and he does, but I'm the adult. I should know better.
I'm not happy with myself at the moment. THe guilt, the guilt. He's going to grow up resenting me, even though he is a huge contributor to my anger.
I want to scream and cry at the same time. Why does he have to be so defiant ? Then he'll go from being impossible, to being super amazing.

Having my sister around is great. Although living together is a bit stressful. The sooner she finds a place and moves, the better for all. Not for any bad reason, except two families living on top of each other is hectic. We are so similar, but so different. We parent a little differently too, and discipline differently. Not to say either one of us is wrong or right, just different. I would never discipline her kids, and nor she mine. Although we gently pass our comments.
I still can't get my head around the fact that she's here for good. It's so cool









Keri, I'm so proud of you for taking the step and putting yourself 'out there' with your signature. I think it's a huge step. One in the right direction in moving forward.It's lovely to see it. Don't you find it liberating. To say 'this is who I am and what I have lost'.

I'm going to hang up washing, and try and feel better. Jamie is sleeping now.

Chat soon, when I can get a chance near the computer !
Tan







:


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## lolalapcat

Everyone is back, the norm is restored, hooray!









Mich, of course I would drive you bead shopping! I just ordered a bunch of inexpensive bead stuff online yesterday, and it shipped today--woohoo! Oh, you should come bead shopping at my house, Mich! I'll carry your suitcase for you...

Tan, it is wonderful your sister is really there, it's not a dream! Yes, 2 families in a house would be heaps of work to deal with....

I am so pleased that Tayga loves his new school! That is all you could have hoped for. I'm sorry you are butting heads with him, though. It reminds me so much of my Mom and brother, they were always like oil and water. And he was a defiant child also, and she would lose her temper...

Sometimes that's just the luck of the draw. You got a feisty independent child. That will serve him well as an adult, and in the meanwhile he is going to drive you nutty!

You are a wonderful parent, it is always so obvious to me how much you care. You atoned for yelling at Tayga, you apologized, it's okay.

Mich, it's kinda crazy that you wound up with the same Oprah magazine. I used to subscribe to it, and a bunch of other magazines, but I am down to a more reasonable 2. I haven't bought an O in a long time. I'm sorry you too can relate to the 'gotta keep going' torture.

Tan, quite honestly my signature line feels like a big invisibubble around me. Like it will warn people away from me, because BEING me is one of their worst fears. I almost regret putting it on there. But it's honest. What to do, what to do.

Thanks for asking about my Mom. Northwestern University is looking at Mom's files now, they have a neurology dept that is reknowned for their research. Hopefully they will take on her case. It's about 8 hours from here, not too bad. She has gotten a little worse. She needs help to get her coat on and off now, she is so unstable on her feet. We've had lots of snow, and that is a problem for her. She will only bathe if Dad is there to help her out of the tub. Yuck. Cannot think about it anymore.

I honestly am so distracted by having the spot carved off my nose next Thursday, I am not too concerned about Tuesday! It is what it is. I still need to make copies of my RE medical files to take up there, which bothers me for a multitude of reasons. I don't even want to touch the files.

Hey, get this---now my favorite cat is acting sick. NO MORE! I'm at max capacity.

Okay, back to beads. Mich, now I am not sure about the ribbon with birthstones. Mine is sapphire, which I like, but in combination with the greens and reds could be obnoxious.

And yes, Scott is now giving me suggestions on how to put bracelets together. There are pliers involved, I think that's the draw. And he likes me having something to focus on, as he has seen me spend a million hours in front of this computer, researching things I cannot change.

It's late, I must run. I have to call the vet and get refills on Russell's meds, which ran out today, and see what they have to say about his lethargy and refusal to eat. Totally not normal.

Have a good day, friends!

Keri, absolutely raging insane.


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## Mammax4

Wah-hoo!!

My DH took me bead shopping today! I was telling him I was feeling a little claustrophobic, that I would like to go out and do some ?? what ever on my own. I was questioned by my gyne's office about driving...she told me I was not supposed to be driving yet. I am not, I haven't been and I am feeling a LITTLE crazy!! (okay, maybe alot crazy)

So, anyway, DH said he would take me where ever it was I wanted to go. I knew he would, it isn't like I didn't want him there, just some independence I suppose. He looked around and waited ever so patiently while I picked up some more stuff. I guess that means I better get my act together and make something now... I think we were in the bead store for about 1 1/2 hrs. Will was there too, checking stuff out. He helped me pick some of the stones I bought.

Tan, I know how hard it can be when you lose patience and feel bad about how you respond to your child. Think of this though.... you are showing that it is appropriate for you to apologize when you are 'out of line' - even to your own child. Parents make mistakes, we all do...you just need to own them and make sure you repair any hurt that has been done. That in and of itself is huge. He will learn boundaries from situations like this. (not that he will choose to use those lessons all the time, he may choose to push the buttons even though he knows better) More importantly, he will learn that you love him unconditionally. Even when he has inspired you to the point of craziness, you still love him. That is obvious by your actions. We all have moments like this, particularly when a strong will is in the mix. Although challenging beyond fun at times, that strength will serve him well. He will rely more on his own ideas and be perhaps less inclined to follow somewhere he ought not go.

How is Jamie doing with all the 'un-routine' in the house right now? Eating and sleeping okay?

I hope your sister finds a nice place not too far away. I am glad you are managing with all the extra people in the house. That is not always the easiest thing to do. I am so happy that Tayga is excited about his new school.

Keri, maybe DH could take the papers for copying? Is DH going on Tuesday? He could be your 'buffer' so you didn't have to be hands on with the papers.

I am sorry your mom has increased mobility issues. I hope that the dr's at Northwestern University will have some insight. I must admit to being quite surprised about Mayo....they shouldn't be able to say no. Makes you think they choose their patients according to what will increase their positive percentage ratios. That is crappy, they shouldn't be able to do that.

I should order the ribbons and get them sent to you. I don't know how big they are. If they were smaller, it might work to have them by the toggle. Then the dangling beads wouldn't be so prominent. That being said, we could have those unmatching stones hanging...it is what it means for us. Thoughts??

DH got me a pair of his wire cutters and some small pliers. He has a whole bunch of tools that are the same as the jewelry store, just without the same mark up. I will see how they work, I am sure I will have to buy some of the tools. I hadn't thought about using DH as a resource for jewelry making, but he does have experience with all kinds of metal and bending etc. He may be able to fine tune my efforts.

I am going to get out of this chair again. Sitting seems to be one of the things I don't do well - at least not in a straight back uncushioned seat anyway.

I will talk to you later.

Mich.


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## Tan II

Hi Mish and Keri

Thanks for your kind words regarding Tayga. I needed to hear I'm not such a bad mom. It helps to get a different perspective. When I got him from school yesterday, all was back to normal. I am going to try very hard to not shout so much.

Mish, I'm glad to hear you are getting up and out and about. Good for you. I hope you have fun with your bead making. I also want to !! I will get myself to a bead store next week hopefully.

Jamie is still in his routine. I am trying hard to keep things as normal as possible. My sister's son is 5 months older than Jamie, so our sleeptimes etc are pretty similar. He has become SO clingy. It is driving me insane. He freaks out when I am out of his sight. He wants me to pick him up and carry him all the time. If I do manage to put him down, he has to be able to see me, otherwise he shrieks.
I sound like I am having fun !

Keri, I hope your cat is feeling better. What did the vet say ? My cat hasn't come back :-(

DH told me I need to find a hobby. He's not wrong. I can't decide what !! I would like to learn how to do mosaic, but I'm sure I can figure it out myself ! I suppose it's more the getting out and being with people part of it he was getting at. And having an interest in something.
I'll give it all more thought properly. Maybe I'll do a course in astrology or something. Hhmm, I'll think more !

Got to get Tayga from school. Then off to swimming lessons.

Have a great weekend.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Good morning, lunatics!

Tan, I don't remember my Mom ever apologizing to us after yelling or smacking us...you are such a nice Mommy!

Poor Jamie, he's probably overwhelmed by all the activity. Sorry he is driving you a little batty...wish I was there to help, but he is at the age where strangers are icky and he's trying to figure out if Mom disappears completely when out of sight (the concept of permanence), so he wouldn't want attention from me anyway! Sounds very very normal to me. It will pass, he is just very busy learning right now.

Mich, DH and I discussed the same thing with Mayo, wondering if the pressure to keep their 'cure stats' high would cause them to turn away difficult cases. I would hope not, I'd prefer to think they are overwhelmed. They are supposed to be the good guys. And I always place a lot of faith in the not-for-profit institutions. My RE was a regular, profit receiving doc, and I wondered if that skewed her motivation. "oh, you had another m/c, let's get you some fertility drugs to ramp up your ovulation."

I'm going to try to make the copies today. It's just paper, for the love of Pete. Part of it is handing such personal documents over to someone else to copy (lots of pages, and I need 3 sets) and I need color copies of the photos of my innards and baby 3. So someone will be looking right at those before placing them on the copier. Nevermind. I'm not doing it today.

Tan, you can test drive jewelry making by using the stretchy cord, because the only things you would need would be beads, scissors and superglue! It's fun. I am pretty well obsessed with it.

Yeah, my DH is really invested in me having a hobby. I think it is good to make something, produce something tangible with your time and hands. It has been a long time since I did anything like this, and it's very satisfying. Well, the gardening and canning are satisfying, I'm just so bad at gardening!

Tan, that's so funny--I have a stash of broken glass and china that I have keeping for a mosaic! Sometimes it's like we were separated at birth...

Mich, your DH and Will are fabulous! And hour and a half...sometimes it takes that long to take all the beads in. Did that cure the claustrophobia? It is very cool that your DH has tools to share, and can coach you a bit. My DH has all kinds of opinions about tools, wire gauge--he is very curious about what I do. I like it.

Do you have---gasp---Walmart in Canada? I really have no idea. DH bought me a pair of flush cutters there on the cheap, they cut wire at an angle so it doesn't stick out. I also got a bead reamer there, to smooth rough hole edges, but I also use it to file wire ends smooth.

Tan, thanks for asking about Russell. He started acting better, so I didn't talk to the vet. He has a chronic condition, interstitial cystitis, and sometimes that flairs up. Poor kitty. But he is better. I am sorry your kitty is still missing, I hope she got lured in by another family....

Mich, how did the 31st go for you? We never addressed that, and I am sorry. It seems like you are in a good place, but....unload if you need to. You already know that.

Running late, gotta go. Talk to you soon!

Keri


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## Mammax4

Good morning.

I best make this quick as I have a whole bunch of sleeping boys that will wake up wanting their pancake breakfast. Chris had 2 friends sleep over last night, they have me pegged - I am so predictable - they were talking about how excited they were for pancakes in the morning. (I don't know if they don't get them at home, or if it is the fact I put chocolate chips in them that excites them so much)

Yes, we do have Walmart here. I live there from time to time. Not so much since the m/c, don't like to hang out in the baby area, or anywhere near one really. I lived there when Will was born. Great clothes, good prices - especially on those Snugabye one piece pajamas. I will be getting some tools before proceeding. I will either go to Walmart, Canadian Tire or Michael's craft store. I need those pliers that are round tipped to very small points and they don't have 'teeth' but are smooth all over.

Tan, I am sorry your cat hasn't come back. I am sorry Jamie is being so needy of you right now. That is a difficult phase, especially when your busy with guests living in your house.

Keri, thanks for asking about the 31st. That was a weird day. I felt off all day, cold and nausea were my constant friends. I was wondering if it was a symptom of a UTI, as they are common after surgery. I didn't feel bad (sick), but wasn't sure. I realized the date after a while, and that seemed to settle things down. I just sat and breathed, gave myself the okay to feel what ever I needed to. It was a bit weird that my body was reacting to it before I clued in. I have felt quite numb since then. I went to bed and cried for a bit last night. I can't remember when I did that last... it has been a while. It was thinking about the sleepover and how it wouldn't have been happening if the pregnancy had continued. I will cook pancakes this morning, smile and enjoy the chance to feed these boys. Food is a big thing for me, if I haven't expressed that here yet. I like people to be well fed when they are around me.

Glad to hear Russell is doing better.

An aquaintance of mine does mosaic stuff. She does patio stones and benches and tables. It is mind blowing how incredible the pieces are that she makes. Written words, pictures, patterns you name it, she can do it. I asked her once if I could come and make something at her place so she could help me with it...but I never did. She makes the most amazing cala lillies you have ever seen.

I hope that you have a nice weekend. I will be trying to get to the store for tools today. We'll see how that goes.

Talk to you later.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Okay, I'm double posting, taking up more than my fair share of bandwidth.

Mich, I hope your healing is progressing well (that's kinda selfish on my part, I want you to be able to sit in the computer chair comfortably!)

Tan, the madness continues...how is your sister settling in to the new country?

I actually forgot to mention something the other day, even though I talked a ton. On Wednesday I placed on online order that includes a couple of baby related things. A simple restaurant-style high chair, partly for use when our godson is here, but also for our future use. And a pet gate, so I can block off the basement stairs, but still allow the kitties access for litter box and general retreat. It has a little wire door that opens within the gate, hopefully not big enough for a child to pass through!

That's really big. I don't have any other baby stuff, as we have lost ours so very early on, there wasn't even a chance to buy stuff. With #3 there was time, but we knew better....

It was an act of hope. A paradigm shift.

Tan, I wore one of your bracelets all day yesterday. I'm really digging it, even though it's pink! Mich, I'm going to make myself one just like it, want one?

Okay, I'm off to scour the house. If I get it done early enough, then I will reward myself by watching cooking shows while making jewelry!








I hope you are both having an enjoyable weekend!


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## Mammax4

A quick hello before bed....

Yes, the chair is getting more comfortable - so I will be







like normal again.

Keri, I am impressed about your purchases. I am sure it was not an easy thing to do. I found that the hardest place in a store to be around, it is not so bad at the moment.

Tan, I hope you are hanging in okay. I know how hard it can be when you have others living with you - even if they are nice and don't create problems.

My BIL has been with us since july 4 and there are no plans to change that. He is a good man and we are happy to help. It does inhibit us somewhat (TMI) as his bedroom is right below us. Not that 'that' is an issue now because it is not allowed for another 5 weeks at least.

SIL called and wants to come out for 2 weeks sometime in Feb or Mar. She spoke to BIL about it, then me...but not to DH - even though she spoke to DH first. That kind of ticked me off...more games.

BIL bought me some pliers for jewelry making - he was out at Canadian Tire and just picked them up. I need a different kind, but those will come in hand I am sure. I think that I need the round needle nose pliers, so I can make loops with out square edges or teeth so the wire doesn't get scratched. Keri...any thoughts here??

I am going to go hang with DH - everyone else is in bed.

See you tomorrow.
Mich


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## lolalapcat

Mich, we posted at the same time yesterday, I didn't even catch that until today...

It is amazing when emotional hurt manifests itself physically. It's like it has to do that to get our attention. I'm sorry.







I am also really glad it wasn't a UTI, those are rotten.

Oh, don't go giving me credit where none is due--I ordered the high chair and baby gate online! I cannot enter a baby section in a store. Why would I try? I no longer cry when I see baby clothes, so that is improvement, but I would implode if I went into a baby section of a store. Lordy. And an actual store dedicated to babies? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Physically impossible. Don't even look at them.

Why would your SIL talk to you about a visit and not your DH? Strange. At least her visit won't be over Christmas...that's such a busy time to have a houseguest. Are your BIL and SIL close?

Yes, you need small round tipped toothless pliers. I got mine in a kit that I bought at Michaels, but I also snagged a set from work. They are a bigger diameter point. And nylon pliers are on my list too, to grip without leaving marks, but Michaels only had plastic jaw. I think I want the nylon, they will hold up better.

Your DH is so sweet, he is going to be off the scale soon! Unbidden, he bought you tools! Wow...

Have you discovered the halfway point on regular pliers? Behind the teeth, there is a spot that is flat, so you can grip a loop there. It will still mark a little, but far less than with teeth.

My DH and I went to the Other Big Town, and found a new bead shop...her prices were really good! I bought a strand of carnelian for general use, as the ones you sent are so pretty and I can't play with them yet. DH found a strand of lapis beads for $2! Amazing!

DH is copying the medical files today. He is crabby, I wonder what's up with that. I can't think of anything I did to trigger it...

I am now officially tense about the appointment tomorrow. Tan, you too? About Tayga's appointment? Not that I am trying to make you tense up, I'm not!

Mich, I am sad that you are sad. But I am kinda glad you did some crying. I have been expecting it, and you have some things about which to cry.

How did the pancakes go over? It is amazing, the things that trigger the grief again. You certainly wouldn't have had anyone staying over at the house if things had been the way they should have been. Yuck.

Very disjointed today.







:

I'll check in later. Take care, friends.


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## Tan II

Hi Keri and Mish

Keri, how was your appointment?

Damn, visitors just got home. Can't chat now. Will chat later.

Big hugs to you girls !!

Tan


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## Mammax4

Gals....

Well, I had fun tool shopping at Michael's...I bought some round nose pliers. Keri, it was actually BIL that bought the other set. DH has some other tools at work he will bring home for me - he is home for the rest of the week. Gotta keep me behaving myself.

Tan, I am sorry your company came home at a most inopportune time. Should we come help with the house hunt so they hurry up? or would that be too pushy and totally selfish?








We know you read, that you are here...we can wait for them to un-occupy your computer space. I hope Tayga's appointment went well. I am looking forward to hearing the pediatrician's thoughts when you have time.

Keri, that you ordered online is only a buffer... it is coming to your house and will be in your house. That is big...no...Huge! I will be thinking of you tomorrow - sending positive thoughts (as always). I hope all goes well with the 'big gun'. Take us (and some tissues) with you.

Is DH being crabby because he is worried about the appointment tomorrow? He sounds like a connected/sensitive guy, maybe he is in need of a good unloading.

The physical manifestation is one that used to come over me around the anniversary of my mother's death. I would feel down and a bit out of sorts, sometimes crabby and I couldn't figure out why...then the light bulb would go on and the physical issues would diminish. Weird how that happens. I am holding myself tighter than normal, trying to keep myself aware of where my head is. I am not expecting a big crash, but I am not foolish enough to believe that it couldn't happen either. Big changes of a permanent variety, can't help but expect some rattling of the brain etc.

BIL and SIL are not really close. I think it is more a matter of SIL wanting to come and check up on BIL, so discussing that end of things. SIL sometimes works for BIL when she comes out too, so it may be that. I still think it is rude of her to not have addressed this with DH. Games people play....

I *so* need to come shopping at that new found bead store...then you could give me lessons. I haven't actually attempted anything with wire yet. I made a rose quartz/blue lace chip double strand bracelet on multi-strand nylon coated wire. I am trying to arrange the new beads I have in a way that I like enough to use the wire I bought. DH said I should check out the used book store and see what might be there. He was talking about buying me a book for our 'started dating' anniversary. (Feb. 13 ~ 16yrs) I told him not to. (I know...killjoy!)

I am going to sit for a bit...I may have done a bit more than I needed to today. Not sure, it could just be healing going on. Is it a 'Whoo haa' that I have Keri?







I thought that was a hilarious name for 'it'.

Talk later.

Mich.


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## lolalapcat

Darn the timing anyway, Tan! You are most of a day ahead of us, it is merely Tuesday morning here. Appointment isn't for another 7 dang hours.

Kindly update us on Tayga's appointment, when you get a chance. Yes, Mich has it right, we need to fly our brooms down there and help your sister house hunt! Greedy little women, aren't we?

Mich, it was nice of BIL to buy you pliers! It is a good reminder for me to slow down when reading.

I kept looking at the wrapped loop things on the jewelry websites, and finally picked up the pliers and made one. It took several practice runs, but it gets easier.

Good for you for making a bracelet! Was the 2 strand your first ever? Just like me, if it was! Start off complicated...

Using wire seems to make bigger beads go together better. A little space is the secret, I think. I couldn't get the healing beads to go together on Mom's bracelet and anklet, until I used wire.

I would love to go shopping and give you lessons, but I'm only qualified to do the shopping part! Do any of your bead stores give lessons?

Your DH remembers your first date anniversary! That is so sweet. DH and I merely have a month, I do not recall the date....

You should let him buy the book!

And it is hoo ha or hoo hah, it was Jenn from Michigan who used that phrase, I just latched onto it big time! Yes, your hoo ha is undoubtedly healing. If you overdid it, you should compensate by resting more. That's orders, missy!

DH made all the med record copies at work. He is remarkably unaffected by it. Lastnight I typed a timeline of our m/c's and didn't cry a single tear. WTH? Sometimes I bawl like a crazy woman, other times I'm like...oh dear heavens, like my MOTHER! Cold, clinical, prune hearted.

Must get counseling.

Mich, thanks for reveling in my BIG accomplishment. To order baby things, even though they are big and wooden, not little cute cushy things, is monumental. Huge. I feel hopeful-ish, in a bizarre serial miscarrier sort of way.

Gotta run, I'd like to sit here and chat all day. Oh yes, I could do it!

Mich, unload your head here, you haven't done that in a while, and you are undoubtedly due. Don't hold yourself too tight.

Tan, I'd tell you to unload, but you have houseguests surrounding the computer! Fast updates, when you get a chance.

Talk to you soon, friends!


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## Mammax4

Ladies...

I hope all went well at the appointment tonight Keri. I have been thinking of you...









Our first date was the kind that never ends...still hasn't. We went on a lunch date...he picked me up after work...I slept over...and then we got a place together. Now before I start to sound like a total wild crazy woman... we worked together for a year before we went on our first date. Poor man, I wonder if he got more than he bargained for! That'll teach him to take me on a date.









Sir I will behave and rest Sir. (hand firmly placed at appropriate salute point) BO-SSY!!









I think it is easier to keep it together when plate is so full you can hardly stand it. You must keep it together for fear of it all coming down on your head at one time. I must say, I enjoyed having too much on the go after the m/c...kept me sane. (or at least it seemed that way at the time--we have all learned better though haven't we)







:

Must say, I don't like the serial miscarrier label... sounds like self directed not nice stuff. (I get the reality behind it, but worry about the label)

And I am still smiling that you ordered baby gear. It makes me happy and hopeful for you. That is a good thing to be.

My 'holding' isn't a matter of keeping a smiling face on. It is more a matter of waiting for the shoe to drop. I don't know that it will, but I would be surprised if at least something didn't come out.

Tan, just wanted to say hello. I hope Tayga is enjoying his week at school.







I don't know how often you get to read right now, but wanted to







so you know we are thinking of you.

Mich









Have I mentioned to you both that my family all call me "mich"? my parents, sisters, cousins, aunts, uncles and grandparents too...each and every one. It makes me smile that you two do too.

did you notice I liked the smilies tonight?


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## Tan II

Hi Gals !

Just wanted to drop in and say hi !! Not having much luck getting to the computer. Between my sister hogging it or kids being asleep (they're in the same room) or Tayga wanting a turn.... I don't stand much chance !

So this is a quick hello, all is well, how are you guys ?

I decided to keep the app for Jamie. I didn't want to take Tayga out of school and disrupt his day. He will go as planned at the end of the month.

He is doing well at school, thank goodness !

Anyway, Tayga is hanging over my shoulder nagging he wants a turn on the computer.

Hopefully I'll have some time tomorrow to chat. Need to catch up.

Chat soon
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hello, friends.

Sorry, Mich, but I have come to a realization: there is always another shoe to drop.

Official Pessimist on board.

Appointment---Not especially likeable Dr says he can help. Good you say? Wait. There is more. Not only would it entail a month of testing, with appointments running every other day for about 2 weeks, but u/s exams on some of those days also, and this is all outside of our insurance network, so only partial coverage. Okay. I was prepared to hear that.

But he also thinks I should have a pelvic exam and pap smear, apparently the one I had LAST WEEK isn't good enough. That is scheduled for JUNE. But he also thinks we should redo the HSG and laparascopy. Even though it hasn't even been a year since the last ones. He would prefer to laser out the endometriosis, as it was cauterized before. Ummm, how long does it take before it comes back, Dr Happy Knife?

And that would be in, roughly, SEPTEMBER. OMG, how do you stand socialized medicine?!?!?! The appointment delays are boggling my mind.

I do not know if I can do this. Honest to God. I couldn't even make it out of the clinic before I was bawling. Why would I want to repeat 2006? I HAVE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD!!!

Sorry for yelling. It is so not what I expected to hear.

And that is for his 80% success rate. Well, other researchers have found that women who suffer from recurrent m/c have a 70-80% chance of a successful pregancy without medical interference. Ummm, hello?

Do I really want to put another year into this process? For a chance? So I can make it to fall before we ttc again, knowing full well what may happen, even with all of the fabulous medical assistance?

DH thinks we should, just to cover our bases. Men, and their sonofabitching need to pass on their genes. He made the mistake of confusing the lap surgery with the HSG, and my brain is still on fire. He doesn't even know what he is asking me to do. He apparently has not been paying attention to my history of medical torture.

I want to run away. I want to be anywhere else but in this life. This is not what I signed up for.

Thanks to both of you for asking about this appointment, and for reading the splattered explosion above. It means the world that you care, and will listen.

And now I must regroup, and carry on the day like nothing happened, and get ready for another appointment tomorrow.

Tan, it warms my heart to hear how much Tayga is enjoying his new school. What a relief that must be!

Mich...the date that never ended, what a neat story!

Thanks for giving me something else to think about.








yet again, a Raging Lunatic.


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## Mammax4

Wow Keri. I am not sure what to say. I have been thinking about this all day. (I read in the am and post in the pm--because I am such a junkie, I need my morning fix) I know you were expecting the tests/travel situation. But the other stuff... huge sigh.

Why is it that it is going to take so long? 4 months for a pap and exam?? Are they that busy?

How are you going to manage this? Can you talk to DH and have him understand? or is he too caught up in the potential end to be too bothered by how you get there?

I am sorry my friend. There isn't anything that I can say or do that can really help. Hurry up and wait is never an easy thing, never mind the fact that they want to poke and prod in the mean time.

Mostly, I am sad and frustrated for you. This is not anything near the here's some progesterone take it and it's okay to get busy. Wait the majority of the calendar year and then we can talk about it in the fall. It is barely the start of the year. I really wish I could come over and give you a hug.

I hope the appointment tomorrow goes well. I always think about the two of you, know that I am doing so especially right now.

I have an appointment with a social worker tomorrow. I am going to see about foster parenting. It is something I have wanted to do for a long time (10-12 years). My daytime commitments complicate that potential, but he is going to meet me and give me an honest take on whether it would fly or not. I am not going to put too much expectation into the meeting as I have small hope it will work. I need to try though.

Tan, good to hear Tayga is enjoying school so much. One less pressure to deal with is a good thing. Hope your house is settled soon. How was Jamie's appointment?

Talk to you later.

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

: The insanity is settling down.

DH called me at work yesterday, and was questioning some of the same things I was the night before, so we are closer to being on the same page.

The clinic gave us a book of success stories, which I skimmed through. Propaganda. What about the failures? I have to be prepared for reality here. What if I do go through all of this again, and it's not the magic cure?

Oh crap. I have fallen into the 'what if's'.

I am going to make an appointment with our charting trainer so we can discuss this with her. And I am going to do more research on endometriosis recurrence.

My strong urge is to ttc with the progesterone support, without going down the resurgery road. But there I go, not covering all of my bases.

But my bases ARE kinda covered. Pretty sure my uterus and tubes haven't changed since last year's HSG. And I had very little endometriosis (I have photos of it, it isn't much to look at) and it got cauterized. BTDT.

I am so confused.

People travel from other states to come to this clinic; this particular type of charting is now done world wide, and this is the mother ship, this is the doctor who has spent decades researching this. They have a good reputation. I presume that is why the LONG waits for appts. So I think about that too...these people do know what they are doing.

But when they walk in with the photocopied 'to do' list for an infertility workup, it doesn't really make me feel like they care about me as an individual, you know?

Mich, I have always wanted to be a foster parent too--I hope the meeting with the social worker goes well. Any particular age, or is it a general thing? Is your family on board, or is this just information gathering?

Since I have gotten myself into this family business, it's not something I can just walk away from, nor do I want to. But it complicates things. Maybe fostering will be a retirement thing, then I will have lots of time.

Why do you have small hope that it will work?

My bead order came in yesterday, but they were out of the metal heart charms. Bummer. Nevertheless, I made the tackiest, most fabulous Valentine's Day bracelet. If I had time to get them to you, I would make each of you one....but even if I mailed it today, they would be late. Do Canada and Australia both celebrate Valentine's Day?

Oh, the good news--Northwestern University called yesterday to schedule an appointment for Mom. March 28th. Somebody cares!

It snowed about an inch yesterday, and we are supposed to get snow nearly every day for the next week. This is the coldest, snowiest winter I can recall.

Gotta get ready for the nose carving appointment. Sigh. At least I really like this doctor.


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## Mammax4

Hello my friends,

Keri, I hope all went well at the 'nose carving' appointment today. My wish is that the dr. stayed on topic and didn't overload you some more.

I am glad to hear that Northwestern will see your Mom; they are stepping up to the plate, that is great. Not an insane wait for somewhere that is high demand.

I hope that DH has had more chance to come round to a really hard look at the situation, not just an okay doc, well do it. Have you discussed all that he is asking you to go through again? Did you get an appointment with the charter yet? I would be interested to see how far she will go in response to the 'big gun's' plans. Maybe she could explain the need for all of that retesting and waiting better. It seems like you have a good rapport with her.

They do have quite the carrot wrapped up in all the propaganda though don't they? I understand the not wanting to do all the tests again, and the wondering if going before decreases the potential for positive outcome. The 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' comes to mind here. You have to decide for yourself where your heart lay in all of this. I am sorry that they have created this scenario for you.

Canada does celebrate Valentines day, although we don't participate. Too much of a money grab opportunity really. We have our own personal 'love day' on the 13th.

My work creates a problem for foster care potential. I was quite positive after my meeting today. This is not a fact finding expedition, but the start of the application process. We have filled out a bunch of paperwork today and will have our file opened tomorrow when I get some of it back to him. He said that we were a 'very attractive couple' in that our availability was where they had the most need. They don't place children older than your youngest child...so that means we could have children 4 and under. He said that if the approval process could be instant we could have 3 toddlers tonight. There are 3 in the system that they don't have placement for. I told him I would take all three tonight too! He said he knew that...we've spoken several times and he has heard the 'passion in my voice'.

DH and I were discussing fostering when we got home. I asked if his willingness was 'humouring me' or if he was really on board with this. It does have an impact on us and it would be good for us both to be on board. He surprised me with his answer...he is more into this process than I had imagined. It made me teary eyed to hear him discuss why he would want to do this. Dan wondered if we would have a child from here or if it is worldwide...he thought a child from Japan would be good -- then they could teach him Japanese. (he is taking that at school this semester) When he found out about the age restriction, it was a whole different matter. It didn't matter that they would be local -- a 4 year old couldn't help him with his homework!

Glad to hear your bead order came in. A tacky Valentines bracelet would be fun to make. I would do that too...hmmmm. I can drive now too!! Maybe that could be my first solo outing. Not buying into the hype, really...

Know all about weird cold weather. We have sure had our share too. I hope you get some days without snow. All the shovelling and plugging in your car can be a drag.

I am off now...last day of the first week...t-i-r-e-d. Not because I am overdoing it...just burning the candle at both ends.

Have a great weekend. Talk to you tomorrow.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Tan??? Hellooooooo??? I miss you!

I know you are busy, and the computer is relatively inaccessible. I just wanted you to know your absence is felt.









Mich, 3 toddlers! I want I want I want!!

Your DH is such a neat person. That is awesome that he is on board also. I hope everything works out, as I can't think of anyone who would be a nicer foster mom! Keep us posted, please, I want to experience this vicariously.

Sorry it won't work out for a language tutor for Dan though...

Nose carving went okay. It is ugly, but they used this clotting stuff that made the bleeding stop so it's not an enormous lumpy scab. Pathology lab will be back early next week. Not thinking about that.

Also got my DPT booster. I was radically overdue for tetanus, and whooping cough has been making a resurgence....I have already talked about this, haven't I? Anyway, my arm is sore. Ow.

Doctor stayed on topic, pretty much. We could be friends though, chatting comes very easily with her.

I don't buy into the consumerism of any holidays, really. Okay, some at Christmas, but only things I want to give. I don't feel compelled to spend lots of money. And V-day is just another chance for me to give a little gift to my DH (I bought him stuff for bullet reloading, isn't that romantic?) and I buy little boxes of chocolate for my parents. When it falls on a weekend, I plan a get-together with friends too, because I love them!

I like the sentiment I guess. And the opportunity to make tacky jewelry....

St Patricks Day is another favorite. Corned beef and cabbage, yum. Easter, of course. Oh, and Cinco de Mayo, more food and beer. And the cemetery tour on Memorial Day....I love holidays! Except I miscarry on them, that pretty well pisses me off, but I'm working on getting over it.

I haven't made an appointment the the chart lady, don't want to rush my brain quite yet. I do have a lot of respect for her, she really knows her stuff. Next week, maybe. I'm really leaning away from further surgery, but I haven't ruled it out completely. Stupid baby lust.

Late, late. One more day to go, then I will settle in the warm house with kitties all weekend!


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## Tan II

Hello Friends









It's my turn at the comp YAY !!!!! Visitors are out !
It's really hectic at home. IT's great having my sister and her fam, but I think we'll all be happier once they find their own place. THen I'm going to go to her house, let the kids run around and make a mess and go home. She forgets that life is different here compared to South africa. That there is no maid to clean up after her. She tries, but will definately have to get her head around doing it all herself. So it's me who's doing lots of stuff ! I suppose if I had to ask her to do things and to help, she would gladly. I'm just not very good at asking !

Keri, I'm glad to hear the nose carve went ok. Please keep us updated with the results.
I hope you are feeling ok about your other appointment. The doc sounded a bit cold. (Or did I misread the tone).
How absolutely frustrating that you have to start from the beginning and redo all the tests.
I'm sure you feel like sitting back, crossing your arms and saying "no, I'm not".
You owe yourself by doing it all again. No regrets. What ever the results, at least you know you have done it all.
I feel like I should be giving you more support. I wish I had the right words for you.
I'm crossing my fingers.

Good news about Northwestern. I'm sure you are all happy about that. How does your Mom feel ?

Yes, we also celebrate Valentine's Day. I'm the sucker who gets caught up in it ! We don't buy presents anymore, unless it's something small like a favourite chocolate or something. We always buy each other a card ! Sometimes dh uys me flowers, but I tell him not to becasue the florists are a rip off for V-day.
I think it's fun to have a day to acknowledge and celebrate love. Not that you need a special day for it. It's so easy to get stuck in the cycle of everyday life, so to have a day that forces you to stop and say 'I love you" and do something special, is fun








I'm a hopeless romantic !

Although a few days ago I was ready to strangle dh. He can make me so angry sometimes. We made up the next day. Just like all arguments, as horrible as they are, I think that it is good to have them. Gets a lot of things out in the open and (hopefully) sorted out.
So we are back on track, and he is more aware of things he should or shouldn't do/say.

Mish, I'm glad to hear you are getting back into the swing of things and getting around.
That is so wonderful that you want to foster children. And that your dh agrees. Good luck. I hope it works in your favour.

How are you feeling after your op ? Emotionally. I hope you are ok. Is it a relief that it is over and you can move forward ?

Jamie's app went well. The paed is happy with him and his weight and growth. Although he is little for his age, he is healthy. So the doc said that it is probably genetic. He'll probably grow up to be tall and skinny, just like his brother ! I was happy to hear that, although I didn't think there was a problem.

Tayga is doing great. He is enjoying school, and seems to be doing well. What a relief.
I am still going to take him to the paed at the end of the month. I have to be honest,my gut feel is that there is nothing wrongf with him. Now that I've had time to sit and think about it, I don't think he is ADHD. It is so easy to read up and diagnose. There are a lot of things that I can see in Tagya that correspond to ADHD, but if I look at the BIG picture, then he's just a 7 year old strong willed kid testing his boundaries.

DH and I have decided that WE need to go on a parenting course to help us deal with him better. I think that is part of the problem. That he plays up to us, and tests us. His behaviour depends on our reaction. Does this make sense ?

Been feeling a bit yuck the past few days. I can't put my finger on why. It's my birthday coming up. I still find days like that hard. Not having my mom around.
I think I told you, dh keeps on telling me to find a hobby. To meet with people and have time out. My sister-in-law does pottery on a wed night. I might join her. It sounds like fun. I still want to learn how to mosaic (can't be hard). Maybe I'll do pottery for a while, then mosaic. I need to get back in touch with my creative side. Gettig myself out there will also be good.

I'll get involved in Tayga's school too. If I'm not going to work, then I'll do stuff like that. After doing the maths of what I'd possibly earn and what I'd pay for Jamie at daycare.....For the bit that I'd have left over, it's not worth the stress.
I like being a stay at home mom. I think it's a real privilege.

I hope you both are not too cold. I'm looking out the window to see it's a beautiful sunny day (sorry !).

I'm off to tidy the kitchen (again !). We're waiting for dh to get back. He went diving this morning. He went for his first boat dive, he has only had shore dives. I'm sure it was lots of fun.

Have a great weekend.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi Tan!

I'm sorry you have been feeling yuck. When is your birthday? It would never be the same without the Mom influence, would it? My Mom always makes a bigger deal over my birthday than anyone else. DH does a good job, but....







Life is hard a lot of the time. I'm sorry.

Birthday cakes probably don't ship well, or I'd do it!

I get kinda moody when my schedule/routine is disrupted for very long. Could that be part of it? I crave my rut when I'm not in it. And it must be chaotic having all kinds of extra people in the house, even if you love them!

And it doesn't help if you've had some arguments with your DH, right in the middle of everything else that is going on. It is good that you made up, and that maybe there is some new understanding there.

ASK, Tan, ask your sister for some help! Explain this 'house help' thing to me, if you would. It is very common in South Africa? It is not limited to very wealthy people? Or it is, but the wealth doesn't translate upon moving to another country? It is a foreign concept to me, and I am very intrigued. Especially as I am about to embark on massive housecleaning!

DH's uncle and cousins (they are young, maybe 7 and 9 years old) are coming to visit this afternoon. It will be fun, we don't see them often. But the house looks like animals and disorganized people live here...

Tan, thanks for your honest evaluation of our appointment. I am torn, as I am not sure the duplication of procedures is completely necessary. Is it doctor arrogance, not accepting anyone else's test results? Is it his routine, and he is shoving me down the cattle chute with all the other infertility patients, no matter what has already been done? Or is it really necessary, because the endometriosis may have come back fast and raging and may be causing my miscarriages?

I am sooooooo confused. Yes, the doctor was cold, which doesn't help. If you are trying to convince me to redo painful, invasive procedures on a really long time schedule without a convincing reason why, being an ass is not the best route to take.

But I love your perspective. It helps. I need honesty, even if it's not what I want to hear. I have a lot of things to consider before making any decisions.

I will be starting on the month of tests on Tuesday.

My Mom hasn't said much about the appointment. It has been snowy, so she hasn't been coming in to work. Snow is an issue with her mobility. We talk more face to face...her hearing isn't the best, so the phone isn't how we chat.

Tan, I completely believe that the parents set the tone of the household. Changes in parenting will result in changes in kids behavior.

It's the same with marriage...I can set the tone of the marriage, by how I treat my DH. He follows my lead so much of the time. If I'm nicer, we are happier. If I am crabby, it is contagious.

Anyway, the parenting course is a fabulous idea. Keep us posted, and teach us what you learn!

I enjoy that you are a hopeless romantic! Hmmm. I may make you a tacky V-day bracelet anyway, and it will simply be late. There is always next year to wear it!

I want to sit here and talk all day, but I have to spackle my nose scab so as to not scare children, and must scour the house. Oh, the fun!

Raging Under the Surface Lunatic


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## Tan II

Hi









Visitors are out !! Keri, you are right, I am not enjoying having all these people in my space. I can't wait for them to find a place and move out ! Sounds horrible. It doesn't mean I don't like them, it's the opposite ! I just don't like them in my space.
They are trying really hard to be good house guests. At the end of the day, everyone does things differently. Different things bug different people. As a family, you get to know how things are done etc.

My birthday is on the 20 Feb. I try to have fun and enjoy the day, but I can't help feeling sad too for those loved and lost. I'm a big girl, got to get over it.

The help thing. Having domestic help in South Africa is not only limited to wealthy people. It's almost a given that you'll have part-time if not full time help. THis person does all the domestic chores that need to be done. Cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing, child minding etc. One tends to be come very lazy, becasue you don't have to do anything. So you can imagine the jump in mind set when coming to live elsewhere in the world. Where help isn't so freely available or inexpensive.

I agree with you saying that parents set the tone in the house. I know I need to work on the way I deal with situations, and not shout so much. I just so frustrated.

how was your tea ? Did u have fun ?

Our weekend was busy too. Seeing friends and family. Yesterday was my neice's b-day. so we were all together in the afternoon to celebrate. (not my sister's daughter, my dh's sister's child ! It can get a bit confusing).

Better go and do some washing.

I hope you are feeling ok.

Chat soon.
Tan


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## Mammax4

Hey Gals!

I just got back from lunch with a girlfriend. Wish it would have been with you two. One day perhaps...

Tan, I am glad you finally got your turn on the computer. Glad to hear you are a hopeless romantic...perhaps some of that will rub off. Sometimes I think I am too practical...I wouldn't know what to do if DH was being all romantic and sweet. Not that he isn't nice; he does do nice/sweet things, but it isn't the same as being a romantic. At least not the romantic types in the chick flicks. I think I would get too caught up in the clean up involved in rose petals on the floor.

I think I am doing alright emotionally. Aside from the one night of being sad about the EDD that came and went, I have not had any other moments. (so far) Physically I am great. I never needed any of the tylenol 3's the Dr. prescribed. I used acetaminaphine and ibuprofen a couple of times, but that was all. I am not needing the nap that I heard so much about in my research. I don't expect that will happen now as it has not been an issue yet.

It drives me crazy how children are supposed to fit into this little box of percentages and growth rates. Do they not know we all are unique and some don't fall in those areas. Are these charts not based on a general standard of weight/height and are we not the fattest society yet? Can they not look at the parents and genetic background? Can't they look at the child as an individual and see that they look healthy regardless of how much they weigh or how tall they are. Can you tell I don't like it when they do that?

Does Jamie eat alright? dirty enough diapers to indicate he is taking in adequate nutrition? play like a typical child? is he listless and pale? sleep excessively? Would these things not be a better way to judge the health and well being of a child?

I hope you can have your sister on track to help out before you get too stressed by all the extra work you have. I am not good at asking for help either, so I can relate. Have they found a place yet? You will have to let us know when you go with your SIL to the pottery class. I think that would be alot of fun.

Keri, so many things to think about right now. I have been thinking about your 'do I or don't I' situation too. I think really you have to do what feels right for you. The reality is you are in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' kind of way right now. You will have the potential to wonder either way. If you have surgery and it works, was surgery necessary? If you don't have surgery and it doesn't work, would it have worked with the surgery? You have to decide what you want. What can you live with? Will you feel as good as you can about trying if you don't have the surgery?

From what I have read, the recurrence rate for endometriosis is between 10 and 40% within 5 years. It does have the potential to interfere with pregnancy. Maybe it isn't necessary, but what if it is? Can you manage the extended wait time for ttc? Do you think it will increase your chances enough to wait? That is alot to think about. I wish there was an easy answer for you.

I can tell you that not all HSG's hurt. My first one was done by the gyne here and it was absolute murder! The second one was done by the other gyne's 'go to guy' and it was absolutely smooth. No pain no nothing. It seems it depends perhaps on who does them.

I can also say that my second gyne wondered why the first had not done more follow up with regards to the lap results. I think DR's have people that they work with that they trust and know the results are accurate. If they are dealing with results from unknown practitioners they can't be that confident. Speaking of control issues.... I am sorry he isn't a warmer person though. That doesn't make you feel inclined to participate in a long involved testing schedule. If he was warm and compassionate it might have made his plans more acceptable.

I made my first driving trip on Saturday. I went to Toysrus and Michaels. There were some great sales on that I could not pass up. I stock pile birthday presents when there is a good deal. There are so many children's parties that we go to that it makes it way more affordable. Michael's had beading stuff on sale...boy did I have fun in there. The silver bits and pieces were 2.99 instead of 4.99. I bought way too much. I guess I better get busy and make something with all my supplies I have now. Gotta justify the expense right? I was thinking that if I am having some success at making jewelry, that might be what I do for Christmas this year.

I couldn't find any tacky heart things to make a bracelet. I did pick up some glass with wire around it. I am going to make something with those and I have a heart toggle for it.

I hope you both had a good weekend. Tan, ask your sister for a little help - challenge yourself. It will maybe make things a little less busy for you. Keri, good luck with your Tuesday start. Just remember you need to do what is best for you.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Good Monday morning/evening!

Lunch with friends, that sounds nice!

The visit with DH's uncle and cousins was also nice. Those kids grow so fast, it's amazing. I haven't seen them since May, and I think they have both put on a couple of inches in height!

The boys talked firearms (no, we aren't psycho survivalist types, they just like the art of reloading their own shells/cartridges) and the girls made bracelets, of course! I was wrong, she is 8 now, and most patient with threading tiny little beads. Ahh, to be young and have good eyesight!

Mich, I'm glad you commented on the 'growth scale'. I was a little skinny baby too, and was always the smallest kid in my classes. But I grew into an average sized adult. That is my only experience with those growth scales the doctors compare babies to...what good are they? A failure to thrive baby is far different from a small baby...do doctors not trust their own judgment? Is this about CYA, avoiding litigation?

Our godson is a big baby, and the doctor always makes a big deal of it. Actually everyone makes a big deal of it. But he isn't a FAT baby...I feel sorry for him. It always made me uncomfortable when people would comment on my stature (look how much taller Keri's younger cousins are than her) and poor godson is going to be in for a lifetime of it too.

Give that little Jamie a hug from me, his was-a-skinny-baby cyber aunt!

It doesn't sound horrible at all to want your space and routine back, Tan. My favorite aunt and uncle stayed at our house for 2 weeks, and it really ground on my nerves. And I love them to death! I enjoy their company! I want them to come back! Just not for 2 weeks.....

Thanks for the perspective on the house help. I truly need to learn more about the world. It would be such a shock to the system to go from not doing any house work to doing all of it. What a paradigm shift. How long did it take for you to get in the swing of things when you moved to Australia?

Mich, did you do some endometriosis searching for me? Thanks, I need all the help I can get! I did some searching yesterday, and was astounded by its association with m/c and infertility. Umm, shouldn't the RE have mentioned the gravity of finding it? Noooooo. But is it the make-it-or-break-it factor for us? Obviously not.

Stats on recurrence are fuzzy. Stats on success of cautery vs. laser are fuzzy. Stats on preg. success after correction are fuzzy. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

All the reading placed an additional burden on me. The endometriosis is not a blip on our fertility radar, it is rather ominous. (insert swear words here).

And I am not convinced that more surgery would be necessary....yet. It seems soon. The focus in what I read was on _correcting_ the endometriosis before continuing with fertility treatment and pregnancy. That has been done.

Confused. May not make it to the Tuesday u/s & bloodwork, as a massive storm is moving in this afternoon, through tomorrow. Lots of snow is being predicted. I'm not sure if the clinic will play it by ear, I'm going to call and find out. I really don't want to put it off, but they are adamant about day 5 testing, and that is in the middle of the storm.

Yeah, with the HSG I'm not sure there was a need to push on the dye plunger so forcefully when I was already in pain. What about nice and easy? Yet another reason to dislike my RE. She is the antichrist in my little fertility drama.

I too have shopped obsessively for bead stuff, it's nice to have some company! Yes, I need to just get to work and stop buying. Although DH did find this periwinkle blue stone, blue aventurine, that is quite lovely. Yes, it is now in another bracelet for you, Tan! Mich, I only have one in your pile of bracelets so far, any color or theme requests?

Mich, your recovery is rather amazing. You have a very resilient body. Did you really get everything out of your head before the H? It seems like you did good work....

Blahblahblah. There I go again. I'll leave some space for the 2 of you!


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## Mammax4

Long time no post...

I have been busy filling out mountains of paperwork for the foster parent application. It is definately a good way to filter out the people that are all talk. Not for the faint of heart! I was ready to not compute anymore once I had my fill of forms last night. Sorry...

I too have a love of my routine. My sister stayed with me for a week after being at my parent's house in the summer. I was ready for them to go home faster than I expected. I love her like crazy, but we are very different in how we parent. It was hard not to call her 3 year old on his back talk to his Mom (or other adults). I am a drill seargent compared to her.

Keri, I have been doing some endo dabbling. I didn't mention the drug options as I presumed they were not an appropriate option. I haven't done enough looking to speak to that or ask intelligent questions. I will get to that soon unless you can address the 'no' already. Or was the endo stumbled upon during a look around?

I shake my head at your former RE as it seems to me she is off her game in a big way. (quack, quack...) Did she even look at your chart? That is the biggest question in my head. I think the 'bad ones' like to do their own tests so they avoid someone else questioning their positions.

Aside from not having a great selection of pants right now, due to belly bloat, I am great. I seem to be mentally/emotionally great too. I am still trying to be aware of my head space, I don't want to blindly stroll into madness. Not that I could, I have the two of you to provide a 'HELLO!' if I seem off. Of course DH would too, but sometimes if you see it all the time you are less aware of the change.

I wore my bracelet and necklace on my lunch date, she was admiring them openly. Thanks again Keri.

Were you able to make your first appointment today? I hope you weren't snowed in.

Tan, have you been able to ask your sister to lend a hand in tidying? I am sure the domestic help withdrawl was quite shocking for you when you moved. I would love to have someone clean my house...I can see how you might slide into laziness.

Hope all is well.








HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY









Mich


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## lolalapcat

Hi! Happy Valentine's Day, hopeless romantics and skeptics alike!









Mich, did you and your DH do anything to commemorate First Date Day?

I figured you had been consumed by the foster work process. It is good that they require a lot...they have to be careful. But all the red tape must be daunting. You must be quite convinced of your decision, if you are powering through!

We made it to the Day 5 u/s yesterday, through snow and wind. DH drove, kept the truck in 4 wheel drive and brought a thermos of hot chocolate. That guy is a keeper!

U/s showed normal ovaries. Duh. I go back on Sunday, then daily as they watch the development of the follicle. This will reveal a lot. Hope our insurance is generous.

They do bone scan research there too, and asked if I would like one done. Insurance may cover it, otherwise it's a freebie due to it being research. My Grandma had osteoporosis and kyphosis, my Dad has osteopenia (beginning stage osteoporosis). My hips are quite good, my spine is very good---and the tech was shocked to find out I don't drink milk (blech)! I do take calcium supplements and eat fortified foods, and do weight bearing activities.

It's good that my bones are strong, since I fell on the ice yesterday. Dang. Bruised knee and hip, sore ribs and wrist. Got myself pretty good.

I think my RE is in the business of helping people to conceive. You'd think she would want babies to stick once they are created. She was a big pill pusher, as I think Western medicine tends to be. To look at my body in its natural state is kind of a holistic approach, and takes more time, attention and understanding than I think a lot of drs have. I can't believe I am trying to explain her treatment of us. I think her laxity was inexcusable.

I didn't quite understand the endometriosis questions, Mich. It's overwhelming to do research on, there is soooo much information, and of course a lot of it is contradictory. I had very little, it was discovered while the RE was looking at my ovaries/tubes, she cauterized it, I was asymptomatic. Does that answer it? I'm still really tired, didn't sleep much before the snow/appt adventure. Generally confused.

Tight pants--I'm with you, sister! I must get off my butt and exercise, especially since the empirical data is unavoidable--I'm getting weighed about twice a week! Scales don't lie. Bloating from my lap surgery stuck around for weeks, and you had much more done....do you have an estimate of how long it may take to settle down? Are things feeling okay?

But I am glad you are in a good head space. It's funny how the human psyche works, isn't it? You did have a couple of months to process the impending H, and I think you knew it was a possibility for longer than we knew.

I am so happy to hear you are enjoying the necklace and bracelet! There will be more coming soon. Practice, practice. DH was playing with the beads the other night--he wanted me to use some of the blue stones he had bought for me. So he lined up the beads for a bracelet, and asked me to make it. I was doing the annual mending (not a big fan of sewing!) and told him to go ahead---I love it! It's so different than anything I would have put together.

Mich--colors of stones, themes? I have flowers, stars, moons, hearts...or none of the above? I just want to make sure I pick colors, etc, that you will wear.

Tan, how's the house hunting going? Is Tayga still having fun at school? Is Jamie still clingy?

Gotta run. I have to get supplies together to take to work, Dad is helping throw a going away party for a friend. I am helping. Party is Friday, I just don't want to wait til the last minute.

Have a good day/evening, friends!


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## Tan II

Hello, hello, hello !!!

Yes, it's me !! Visitors are out. I quickly ran to the computer to quickly say 'hi'!
Nope, they haven't found a place yet. I'm sure it'll happen soon. THey have 4 weeks until their household stuff arrives. So not much longer to go.
Although I must say, we seem to be settling in. It's still hectic, but more familiar.

Valentine's day was nice. DH gave me a card and my fav chocs ! I only gave him a card. I also put a card in Tayga's lunchbox ! He was impressed with it !

Visitors home.

Damn !

Will chat soon.

I miss catching up.
Tan


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## Mammax4

Thought I would check in real quick - HAH! real quick...I don't think I know the meaning of that!

Tan, Good to have you here even if only for a hello, hello, hello. We miss you and are (selfishly) looking forward to your spare room being empty.

Keri, I hope your bruised self is feeling less sore today. It is amazing how hard you can fall on icy surfaces.

Endo stuff - I was wondering if RE had diagnosed it or came across it during surgery. You had not mentioned trying any drug therapy for the endo, so I had presumed it was discovered during your lap. The information I have found on endo is like the 'h' stuff. Contradictions reign supreme. Amazing how a medical subject can be so oppositional. I suppose we are all individuals and react/respond differently to things.

This leads me to a nosey Nellie moment... Do you feel confident that your RE has done a good job? Was your endo so minor that it was not worth mentioning the potential fertility complication? or was she more invested in having you get pregnant than maintaining your pregnancy. It seems to me she did not have your best interests at heart. That would lead me to question her 'work'. I can understand not wanting to go through all the testing and surgery again. But, maybe it would be the difference...

My nose is firmly planted on my face again. No guarantees it will stay that way!









We celebrate our First Date night by cooking a nice dinner. I made a yummy chocolate cake with chocolate whipped cream for dessert tonight. I was talking to my sister tonight while eating mine and choked on some. I inhaled it and I think some went up my nose. I can be such a dork some times. That will teach me for eating too quickly.

My sister and her dh have decided to do IVF one more time. If it doesn't work, then they will remain as is. I wonder if they will be able to stick to that.

The 'swelly belly' can hang around for a while. 6 months or so, just in time for summer. yeah. Aside from a slight lower backache once in a while, I feel better than I did before surgery. I was going to say as good as before, but even with sutures still in there is a reduced heaviness there. I think the h wasn't in the forefront of my mind, but I had considered it before the 2nd reversal. I was told that due to my retroverted uterus I may end up with one later in life anyway. I wasn't totally unprepared to have that on my plate. Although, it was a shock when it was in my face.

How cool that your Dh made a bracelet for you! My absolute favorite colour is orange, I also like red and blue. Not really into flowers, but would be open to them. Love celestial stuff. I bought several heart clasps from the bead shop and Michael's. I really like the floating heart style. What about you?

Question for you... are you making your Mom another something anytime soon? Do you think there would be enough carnelian (that I sent you) to use some on her piece? If so, I would like you to use it. I think there is some of our energy in it; maybe it could help her. And to clarify; the stones are yours, use as you see fit.

Now I must dash to bed. I am typing very badly right now. Too long on the keyboard. I was working on the paperwork again. All the work I did the other night was lost somewhere.

Have a great day.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Hi, both of you!

Thanks for the commando visit, Tan! I'm glad your visitors are settling in, now that it's about time for them to go.....

Is housing readily available in Melbourne? Expensive, Mich tells me. Our 2 biggest cities here are growing so much, it's harder to find places to rent. Or is your sister looking for a house to buy?

ORANGE? Mich, your favorite color is orange? I don't understand!

Actually I do, my friend Jayne's favorite color is orange...orange bathroom, orange kitchen. Used to drive an orange car. Orange cookware, orange clothes. Orange flowers in the yard. She's going to Omaha with me for the u/s on Sunday, we're going to get some lunch and do some shopping.

And my parents house---orange countertops, orange tortoiseshell linoleum, orange carpet in the basement. It sounds obnoxious, it's actually quite nice. Of course, I grew up there, so my retinas my be permanently scarred by it...

It's an unusual favorite color, though! So on jewelry, stay with silver? Or go with gold? Orange and gold seem to go together, but I haven't tried it with silver. I happen to have some orangey stones left over from my aunt's bracelet...she wears a lot of coral/pumpkin shades.

Okay, back to business. No diagnosis of endo, no suspicion of it. It was a surprise. I have photos of it prior to cautery...it really wasn't much, to my untrained eye. But I have read that the more superficial endo can cause more hormonal problems than the deeper, more advanced endo.

Do I trust my RE got the endo taken care of? Good question. I wish they would have left a little camera in there, so we wouldn't have to cut to find out. Cautery of endo would be fairly straightforward, wouldn't you think? How could she mess that up?

Part of this is the timing. My Mom is getting worse, which creates a whole different set of external pressures. Waiting until fall to ttc...it doesn't matter I guess. Anyway we try to have a child, it could fail, and we could wind up waiting for adoption. It would be nice to have something happy come into our lives. It would be good for the whole family. We need some hope. And I'm being told to postpone it.

I realize it might be the best chance. But I am not convinced that the endo that was cauterized 11 months ago needs to be addressed again so soon.

Confused, confused. Overwhelmed.

And the stupid clinic hasn't called me back with the pathology report on my nose spot. Monday or Tuesday my hiney! And they couldn't tell me anything yesterday, since it was my Dr's day off. Damndamndamn.

Just as sore today as I was yesterday. It's amazing what hurts, but isn't bruised. All ice will be melted by the end of next week, woohoo!

Deep breathing, deep breathing.

Mich, I am sorry you lost the information you already had done. How much paperwork is left?

That's really great that you already feel physical improvement from the H. I hope things continue to improve. Darn swelling and bloating probably mask some things.

Um, were they talking H for the retroverted uterus because it was retroverted? Because you know what I have....

I've got to go early today, there is stuff to gather for the going away party tomorrow. My list awaits!


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## Mammax4

Hello!

Yes, orange is my favorite colour. But upon closer consideration, I don't have alot of orange stuff. More black and white with some blue and red added in for good measure. I even have one pink shirt! I think I like orange so much because it looks so nice on a suntan. Maybe I don't quite 'love' orange the way others do. Gold would seem the obvious choice, but I don't know... it would clash with my already started silver collection.

I have to get to the library this weekend. There are some good how to books for making jewellry there. I checked on line. I haven't actually put anything together because I need some instruction. Maybe I should pop in to the bead store downtown. They will show me how to do it, and help me too. Keri could you come over this weekend? I want to do the bead on a wire with the circle of wire on each side. Can you do that? I think I need a better holding tool too. One that won't scratch the wire while I am bending with something else.

You're a 'retro' girl too hey? I wouldn't trust that bit o' info as far as you could throw an elephant...bad dr. It could have been that he was commenting on my state of insides having seen me after 2 deliveries too. Who knows.

Did you make an appointment with your charting lady yet? Did the Feb. 6th doctor give you odds with only the progesterone supplements? or was he focused on after all his bases were covered? or is he concerned the RE may not have done the job right. Some of the information I have found says that mild cases are harder to deal with, you have to be an excellent laparoscopist. (who knew there was such a term?)

As far as the cautery vs laser there is conflicting info. *as usual* Some says it doesn't matter which way you go. The only study I have seen so far says cautery resulted in a 47% pregnancy rate while laser resulted in 87%. Who knows how the study was actually held though, and are the results really accurate?

Bottom line I guess is ~~ where is your head in all this? Does it match up with where your heart is? What about Dh? Where is he in all this? Could you try now with the progesterone supplements and see where things go? If that was not the key, could you still be in line for Sept. or would trying and not testing have interrupted the schedule and you would be back at square one?

I am sure glad we took turns with our medical stuff. Poor Tan would have been going crazy with our overwhelmed heads!

Paperwork...I have to finish the last 22 pages of one bunch and I have to type in the answers to another bunch of 38 questions. They were situations and how would we deal with them, so some are wordy answers. That will be the last bit - other than the drivers abstract that we have to do for this round. The other paperwork comes with the first home visit with the social worker. Must be committed...hey you could really take that the wrong way now couldn't you!

No nose news would mean good news wouldn't it? How is your nose anyway? Are you a pill taker? Are you taking any ibuprofen for your bruised/sore self? One and one (Ibuprofen and Acetaminaphine) are good. Apparently they are sold as one pill in Africa. We had a Dr. from South Africa treat Dan when he had chicken pox. He got a staph infection at the same time as his nasty chicken pox. He was a hurtin' boy then.

Anyway, I best get to bed. I was going to go to bed early... oops. At least it's Friday in the morning. or Saturday, depending on where you live.

Tan, hope all is well with you. And I hope that even if your posting is limited you still get your daily read in.









Bye for now.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Hi!

Tan, I mailed your bracelets today! The last one I made looks like it's not put together right, but it's just twisty for some reason. You'll know what I mean when you get it. Hopefully it will behave. Oh, and the little holes in one of the bags, that was Lola. Naughty cat.

Mich, the loop thing is easy, it just takes a bit of practice. Take straight pliers and bend a 90 degree angle, use the round pliers and grab at the angle, wrap the wire around the round pliers to make the loop, grasp the entire loop with flat pliers (I used the flat space behind the teeth of the flats, before I found the $4 nylon jaw pliers, let me know if you want some). Once you have the loop gripped, start wrapping the wire, keeping it as perpendicular as possible. I have a little pocket knife that I use to 'scoot' the wires closer together if needed.

I was intimidated until I did a couple of them. Easier than I thought they would be. I have to be in the mood to do them, but now I like them! I still leave myself plenty of wire, because I'm not good at estimating how much I will need to complete the loop and a few wraps.

I'll try orange and silver together. Yellow based colors are not my thing---I like the way they look, but if I wear them it looks like I'm in kidney failure. Even greens I have to be careful with. I wear lots of purple, blue, red, some green and brown. Used to wear lots of black, but Miss Lola prevents that. If I want to wear black, I must leave my own house!

Interesting stats you found on laser vs cautery. I'm letting them set up the appointments, we can always cancel them. All options open. DH is confused also. I haven't set up anything with the Chart Lady, as I am feeling overbooked (busy all weekend, getting u/s and bloodwork all next week).

Finally called the dr, she said she hadn't been able to get a hold of me. Huh? I've been at work or at home. Answering machines both places. Medical releases allowing messages to be left either place. Damn.

So it is basal cell carcinoma that was on my nose. Why did I wait until this point to mention it? Trying to put it in perspective. It is very common, very treatable, very slow growing. Now I am adding a dermatologist into the mix. They will take out more of the surrounding tissue--hello, scar--and will come up with a treatment plan.

I spent yesterday afternoon in meltdown. I am a bitch, I told my Dad and shouldn't have added to his burden. But the appointments, it's going to be hard to hide. Why hide it? Because all my family has is heaps of crap to deal with. I don't want them to lose a single second of sleep over something that is treatable. And it's now too late to spare my Dad that. Guilt. Ugh. (Go ahead, Mich. Pot calling kettle, hello, kettle?)

Mean, it was just mean. Both of his parents died from cancer, he can't hear the word without thinking of them. I should have thought. I should have shut up.

It was interesting though, Dad and I poured a couple of drinks and talked about life, getting older and being scared about ourselves, about Mom. He said he admired my tenacity, in regards to going through all of the effort to have a baby. I told him it wasn't tenacity, it was marital devotion. He said sometimes they are the same thing. He told me months ago that he wouldn't blame me for quitting the effort.

It was a very unusual, large, weighty, good conversation to have with him.

So the burden has increased. My soul is creaking under the strain. I can do this, if only a day at a time. I can do this.

I can do it better if I change the subject. Mich, I am capitally good at essay questions, a skill that is completely lost when not a student. I wanna help with the paperwork! I know, that completely defeats the purpose. But still..

My Grandma had a retroverted uterus too, and had 5 babies. I have never heard if she had m/c's, that's just not something she talked about. But she didn't have any 'woman trouble'. I have 2 aunts who have had hysterectomies, though. One due to cervical cancer. Not sure on the other, I should ask Mom.

Library, what a clever idea! Why didn't I think of that? And we have the prettiest library in the town where I work, it is a pleasurable experience to go there. I have such a backlog of war books at my house, I don't go to the library much anymore.

I am the 1000 pound anchor. It's getting harder to be my friend, isn't it?








:







while I haven't scared you off.


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## Tan II

Hi Guys !

This not getting to the computer all the time is driving me mad !

Keri, thank you for the bracelets. I'm sure they are gorgeous. I will let u know when they arrive.

It's ok to have a meltdown. You are only human. You've been under a lot of stress lately. Do you feel better for it ? I'm sure it was good for you to unload with your dad - someone who you feel safe with and trust.

You can do it. We are here for you. Day by day. Just keep swimming .....

I hope you are not so overwhelmed and that it all falls into place. What ever it might be.

Mish, I am thinking of you today. I am wearing an orange t-shirt !! I also think orange is a suntan/summer colour. It's a nice colour on me with my dark hair.

Mish you sound like you are recovering really well. I'm happy to hear that.
Have you handed your paperwork in ? When is your visit with the social worker ? How exciting.
Have you discussed any of this with the boys ? What do they think about it all ?

Tayga has been doing really well at school. I met with his teacher and caught up. She is happy with him. She seems like a teacher who is firm, but kind. Who won't take any crap ! Who knows how to encourage a difficult child. I like her.

Jamie is great. As far as the weight thing goes, Keri u r right. The docs do over-react. About what his weight should be for his age etc. He is healthy, happy and active. It just happens that he is skinny. Tayga is also skinny. He is tall, but thin. Jamie will be same. It's not like I am any different ! So it's genetic !
These people can make you worry for nothing !

Got to run. Got 50 million things to do ! Ok, maybe not 50 million, but lots









Chat soon
Tan


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## Mammax4

Good Morning!

Guess what....I am taking Dan downtown today...just down the street from the bead shop. Dh was going to take him, but I said I could do it. Dh was on to me from the start too! I will check on the nylon pliers there, as I do want a pair. Where did you find them for 4$?

I wear a lot of black pants, black close to my face makes my eyes change to an angry colour. (icy grey/blue) I don't wear black tops very often. I may have to adjust my pants situation too as Harmony is getting me furrier all the time.

I haven't handed the paperwork in yet. We may be able to have it done by Monday. I have to email the two large stacks of questions as they consider them working copies. The social worker will print them once they have been reviewed. If I plug away, I think the only thing left outstanding for Monday will be one last reference questionnaire.

I am hoping the answers I have given will be sufficient. I have more on some, less on others. I suppose some of the questions are more relevant to our situation too. I don't imagine a toddler would be coming home intoxicated or missing a 10pm curfew. Not in my house anyway!! Keri, be careful what you offer...I may just take you up on it! Funny, I thought the 38 questions (hypothetical situations) would be more difficult than the questions about us. Of course I picked me to focus on as my background is more complicated. I thought if we used Dh it would seem like hiding. Dh was pretty standard in his home life.

We have had some interesting conversations with the boys. They are on board and have made reference to their foster brother or foster sister. We made sure they understood it was fostering and not adoption. It is cute to hear Will talk about his foster sister. He is sure that is what will happen, he thought he would get to name her too, but we cleared that up.

What a great thing Tan, that Tayga's teacher is caring and firm. A wishy washy person can get bowled over by a strong personality. Positive teacher, positive Tayga...YEAH!!! I am glad that the year has started this way for you. Are you noticing a difference in Tayga at home because he is enjoying school? It is amazing how much teachers effect a child - day to day and long term.

Keri, I think it was a good thing that you told your Dad. I can understand the cancer-panic connection for your Dad, but hmmm...it seems to me we went through this same discussion recently. How would your Dad feel if you didn't tell him and he found out at some point later? The two of you have a special relationship. I think he would have been hurt and sad. It promoted a chat and discussion that I think you both needed. It was a good thing you shared. Maybe he needed the unload as much as you did. As much as we are good for unloading, there is something to be said for a real person who can give you a hug.

It is so much easier to see that potential fall out when it isn't you in the situation. I have total clarity for you, thanks for your clear head when mine was muddied.

Mohs micrographic surgery is a good technique for the face - where conservation of healthy skin is needed for esthetic reasons. It seems basal cell is treated in office with local anaesthetics. One appointment. That would be good not to add a whole bunch of them on your plate. You may have to meet the dr. first and then go again for the procedure I suppose.

Keri, thanks for the loop instructions. Do you know how to do the other side?? So that both sides of the bead have the twisty loop thing?

If you are the 1000 pound anchor, then Tan and I must each be your 1000 pound cables. Do the math sweetie, we can hold much more than your capacity. Harder to be your friend....bah - Whatever! This is when it is easiest to be a friend. Maybe harder for you to be the one needing help, but that's what we are here for.

I must get in the shower now... we have company coming for dinner and I need to clean the house - with help of course.

Talk to you later.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Good morning/evening, friends.

Tan, you got some good computer time in, it's almost like old times!

Mmmmhmmm, bead shopping. I picked up a few more things yesterday (mainly bead caps, I love those things) and will be picking up a couple more in Omaha today. Next step will be opening my own bead store!

I found the $4 nylon jaw pliers in Omaha at a non-chain store; they were at least twice that price everywhere else I looked. I'll be in Omaha possibly every day this upcoming week, let me know if you would like me to pick up a pair. I'll be sending another envelope your way sometime, I could include them....

On the wrapped loop, you do the same thing on both ends. It's obviously more complicated since you are connecting it to the next loop...it takes a bit of rearranging with the pliers since there is more 'stuff' in the way.

Best advice---just try it. After 2 or 3 you'll get a feel for it, and get that sunny feeling of accomplishment! Tan, are you taking notes? Have you decided what hobby to take up?

I am much more settled. One day at a time. This weekend has been very busy, and will continue to be, but that is apparently what I needed.

Mohs micrographic surgery, never heard of it but will research. Thanks, Mich. This is one more dang thing to learn all about, so I can make decent decisions. I would put all my trust in the hands of the doctor...umm no I wouldn't. Been burned. It would be so much easier if I had blind faith.

And I am definitely vain. It is a bit embarrassing, in the face of learning that I have skin cancer, to be concerned about how it is going to affect my appearance. I already have acne scars, I guess some surgery scars aren't that big of a deal. How scared would I be if my face was unscathed? Holy cow, I am now engaging in a moment of gratitude for the acne that has plagued me. Bizarre. Everything for a reason...holy crap. Epiphany.

Gotta chat fast, so I can get ready, vacuum, meet friend for lunch, go to Omaha for u/s....

Mich, I glad you have nearly conquered the mountains of paperwork. Will is so adorable, he thought you would have naming rights! Sweet. It is good that the boys are all on board.

I hope you had a nice time with your company last night!

Tan, hooray for the new teacher! Isn't it amazing, the difference one person can make?

I am sorry your kitty hasn't come back, I was thinking of her this morning.

Sigh. Must run. I am looking forward to next weekend, so I can get a bit of rest (except for bloodwork one day).










The Tired Lunatic


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## Mammax4

Hello!

I soon will be back to regular posting, paperwork almost all done! Yeah!!

How did your u/s go Keri? Did you have a good lunch and shop? My shop was deferred for a week. Will came with me and wasn't to keen on hanging in the bead shop. Can't blame him, he was probably having flashbacks from last time. I will go next weekend, as Dan wants to go to a shop downtown too.

Aren't we all a little (lot) vain? I am allergic to milk protein, it gives me eczema...on my face.

Dinner was good, it is funny to be old enough to have dinner with people that my parents would hang out with. Dh celebrates the big 5-0 this summer. I don't know if we will have a party or not. Maybe something low key.

Speaking of birthdays, Tan you must be close...or did I miss it already? Will you be 33? is that right? I would like to exchange that info privately, are you game ladies?

I suppose I should get to the paperwork, the sooner it is done, the sooner I get more. AAAHHHH.

Hope you are both well, talk soon.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Fast post, playing hookie at work!

Happy Birthday, Tan!







:

I for one am so very glad you were born! I do treasure your friendship.

This is late, I know it's already tomorrow there....my apologies. I was out of the house very early for the Great Ultrasound Adventure, Chapter 3.

But today it is still your birthday here! I do hope you have enjoyed it.










More later!


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## lolalapcat

Okay, a bit more time....

Although I do need to go to bed earlier, as I am suffering from sleep deprivation.

Ultrasounds had been going fine, until today. Right Ovary has stalled. We'll see how it looks tomorrow. Ovarian dysfunction would not be a surprise, it's all related to hormone levels.

One of our cats has a broken tail, so I am currently worried about him. He's our indoor/outdoor cat, the neighbor's cat who moved into our house. He went out when I got home, was out for maybe 45 minutes, then came in with a completely limp tail. Poor little guy.

Emergency vet says to keep him kenneled (that's not going over well), keep an eye on him for signs of pain, and take him to the regular vet in the morning. It will be a long night.

Mich, sorry your bead shopping plans were foiled. It does become an obsession, doesn't it? Or maybe compulsion is more accurate. I picked up some chrysoprase on Sunday, and these interesting orange giraffe-y looking stones. Hooray, you both gave me another reason to shop!

Dermatologist appointment March 19th. I am quite calm about it now. Nearly a third of all people will be diagnosed with basal cell carcinoma during their lifetime. It is really common.

Thanks for the heads up on Mohs procedure. How did you know about that? It sounds like the way to go, if the dermatologist is trained in it. I'll consult with him and get more information. If he can't do the procedure, I may shop around. Or not. Heaven forbid I actually make a decision.

50th birthday, that is cause for celebration! I'm firmly against all of that 'over the hill' stuff for birthdays, classy dinner parties are more my style. In case your DH wanted my input, that is! Although one of my friends just sent an email preparing people for his 40th birthday--he'd like to get a bunch of us together in Hawaii in 2008. Just may have to do that.

I stumbled on a book of devotions for couples dealing with infertility. It's right on the money, I am really appreciating this particular author's perspective. It was in the clearance section of one of our local discount stores, I wasn't even looking for anything like it. Hmmmm.

Okay, here's hoping that the birthday was good and the paperwork is done!


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## Tan II

Hi Friends !

THis is a quick one !

Thanks for the birthday wishes. I had a GREAT day. I got spoilt by my family. A visit to a day spa voucher, 'greatest mom' mug, earrings. Then the biggest gift of all, is that between DH and a very good friend who lives in Sydney, they organised that she come for a visit !!!! It was a surprise visit for the night. DH came home yesterday morning, and behind him walked in my friend ! I haven't seen her in 3 years. I was SO surprised ! It was amazing to see her and catch up in person. We spent the day together shopping and chatting. Then last night we all went out for dinner. Then we came home and I pulled out all my photo albums from school days (we were at school together) and we paged through the albums remembering all the things we did together ! THis morning after taking Tayga to school, we went for breakfast, went shopping again !! Then I drove her to the airport. It was so amazing to see her and spend time together. Real "chicken soup" for my soul. Nothing like having a history with someone. Something you don't always have when you emmigrate.

Now I am off to get Tayga from school, then off to tennis. Rush, rush, rush !

Sorry my postings have been so short and not very interactive. Not so easy to get to the computer without an audience !

I hope you are both well, and that everything is good.

Chat soon.
Tan


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## Mammax4

Keri, sorry to hear about your kitty's tail. It sounds like it broke at the base. Poor baby. I hope he is okay.

I too am suffering from lack o' sleep. Must get to bed earlier. I had a long phone call last night, a gf that I have known since preschool. I needed to have some quiet for a bit, she talked a blue streak...we haven't had more than a bump into visit for 2 years. She says she is coming over on Saturday. All I can think of is how her kids are in the situation that one might come to us from. She has really lost her way as a parent, she is the top priority in her life now.

I mentioned that to Dh, how a circumstance like that might lead a child to us for fostering. He said it would be nice to have a little girl. "We would be the perfect little family with a little girl, and I wouldn't have to worry so much about her because she would have 3 older brothers". I reminded him that it isn't forever, but for a while. Funny. We'll see how this all turns out. As we are in line for toddlers, you never can tell how long they might be with us.

Paperwork was done, so I thought. There was more we needed to add as the paperwork was not complete. That's okay, I just have to type out our answers now. Then it will be our first meeting at our house! Phew, almost there.

I will be able to go downtown this weekend. You are right, it is an obsession/compulsion thing these beads. Now, if I could only actually make something with them!

Good to hear the basal cell is so common. I was doing a little research on it and came across the Mohs procedure, thought I would share my find. I thought two heads are better than one, it makes less work or finds more answers.

I am not into the whole over the hill thing either. I think it would be more like an open house type celebration. I like fancy dinner parties too, but wouldn't want to have that many people here and couldn't leave them out! There are a couple of other families that have been long time friends that would be interested in coming. Our roof top deck should be done and ready for bodies by then too. The view is amazing from up there.
Want to come see it? Keri? Tan? July 2007?

It is funny how things come to you sometimes isn't it? I am glad you found that book and that it is a good one for you is even better.

Tan, Happy Birthday!!

Oh my gosh! Your Dh is amazing. What a fantastic way to spend the day. All on the sly too. It sounds like you had a Great time. Very thoughtful of your Dh to do that for you.

Keri, I hope your ovary gets busy, no more stuff allowed right now!

I am going to finally get the paperwork off my 'plate'.

Mich









PS - Keri...can't do the Hawaii thing before the W'h'ine Party.


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## lolalapcat

Hi!

Tan, your DH is awesome! What a thoughtful, touching thing to do for your birthday. I am just so pleased you had such a good day!

How far is Sydney from Melbourne? I have a picture of Australia in my head, but I can't say I'm sure on distances.

Mich, I hope the paperwork is done. What a mountain!

Our kitty's tail is just wounded, not broken. Even the vet was surprised it wasn't broken. She thinks something dropped on his tail, near the base, and damaged it. He's on anti inflammatories. Wish he could tell us what happened!

Ovary did better today, it got bigger. We'll see what happens...

2 more days of the hour drive each way, and fighting with big city traffic. It's better now that the roads aren't so sloppy. Traffic is okay, but traffic with wipers and road gunk is a bit distracting.

Mich, that's sweet that your DH can picture a girl baby in your house. That would be fun, all the big brothers!

I hope your friend gets her priorities straight. Did she invite herself over on Saturday? It is hard, trying to be a friend when someone is making destructive choices.

July of 2007---that's this July! We may be going to Detroit for DH's parents' 40th anniversary, July 1. I just asked my MIL about that today, via email. If not Detroit, I would sure consider your rooftop!

And I know, the W(h)ine party is on the list....we need to organize!

Okay, I need to finish a bracelet for my friend. We're getting together Saturday, and I want to shower her with pretty things!

Oddly, a sense of calm seems to have settled over me. What do you suppose that is? I hope it's a new state of existence, not just exhaustion.










ps, Tan, stop apologizing! We know what's going on, it's okay. You can post all crazy like Mich and me when you have your computer back!


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## Mammax4

Hello!

I am now done the paperwork - for now. We have our first in-home meeting on March 5. Hopefully that paperwork won't be as much.

Glad to hear your kitty isn't suffering a broken tail. Give him an extra chin rub from me.

How is the land of testing coming? Any ovary update yet? I was wondering if the testing is at least in the same town as work?? I have visions of a big circle of travel for you, I hope that is not the case.

I was a bit surprised at Dh's thoughts on a girl child in our house. A little bitter sweet with my thinking that is what we lost last summer.

I have a full weekend ahead of me it looks like. Dan is going for a one day job on Saturday... it starts at 7 am. That means getting up earlier than a normal weekday. Gotta love that boy! No, really he asked and I said yes. He is pretty excited about it. He will make $100 for a 7-3 work day.

Dh was at the hairdresser with Dan last night. She asked if I had a surgery date booked yet. (oops) He told her I was already done. She called me today to give me heck for not telling her. She said she would have wanted to bring me some food and check on me if she would have known. (she really would have too, she does that a lot for people) She asked if I was okay and how I was doing... and of course what I had done. I did tell her. It seems to be a little (really little) easier to tell each time I have done it. (that would be 3 now)

We had a funny snow flurry a few days ago. It was weird. It didn't stay, but when it was falling it was like a blizzard with the wind. Hoping for less wet and more sun soon. Gotta have sun so we can get the outside work done. I am hoping that Dh and BIL will build some stairs this weekend.

Must go, I am going to try to get to bed before 1am. I am starting to yawn way too early in the morning lately. Too much burning the candle at both ends.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Happy Friday!

No u/s today, the ovary blew yesterday. It's amazing, it's so gigantic on the screen one day, and the next day they have to search and search to find it.

So now it's bloodwork tomorrow, Monday and then I'm not sure when, as we will be doing bloodwork based on cervical mucus.

It was a giant circle I was driving in. Work is 25 minutes east of here. New clinic is an hour northeast, then it's an hour to get to work. I don't really mind the driving, but the early mornings make me whiney. Bloodwork will be done 30 minutes west of here, then an hour drive to work. Far less traffic and stress, though.

Hooray, the paperwork is done! Let us know how the home visit goes. It's kinda like the adoption process, you are going through something I am very curious about. It takes a lot of courage to turn your lives inside out for others to inspect.

I wondered if the girl talk was making you a little wistful.









It's good that it is getting easier to tell people about the H. Your hairdresser sounds very sweet, it's nice that she cares.

Tan, I wish we were watching the same episodes of Grey's Anatomy! Have you both been watching American Idol? I wish we could watch the Canadian and Australian Idol shows, although your review of CI was pretty bad, Mich.

My MIL sent me a bunch of beads, and boxes in which to keep them! Too funny. She is feeding the monster. I've been too tired to play with beads, hopefully I'll start catching up on sleep.

I have a busy day tomorrow too. House is vile, must be scoured. Bloodwork in the am, then drive back home to clean, then back to the city to meet up with friends. Poor DH has to work all day tomorrow.

Hope Dan has fun plans for his income!

Gotta run, trying to get to work earlier. Daylight savings time is hitting a month earlier this year, and it's right before our big weekend classes, so I am shifting my schedule now to prepare. Do you do daylight savings time? I think Canada does, but I'm not sure.

Okay, I'm going to tackle the day. Talk to you soon!


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## Mammax4

Keri, I figured there was going to be some driving involved in all of this. Sorry it is so much. Where do you buy gas? I was thinking I should buy stock in a gas company!







Hopefully your gas prices are lower than ours. We have had a $.07 jump per litre in the past 3 weeks. Getting ready for spring break and tourist season. That is definately a downside to living in a tourist destination city. That being said, the positive is when you have company, there is no shortage of things to do and see.

Glad to hear your ovary got busy. I sent it a stern talking to - mentally of course.

I can send you the questionnaires so you can see the kind of questions that are asked if you like. Dh actually said it was a good exercise regardless of what it was for. It makes you think about things that are outside of day to day stuff.

I must admit the excitement that came from Dh when he was mentioning the potential of having a little girl with us long term was a little surprising. (not the right word) It was a slight chin drop followed by a stiffled throat sound. For a micro second I was a little - 'Well, we could have done that on our own!' I think his comfort comes from not feeling financially responsible for another child.

I have watched some of American Idol. And yes, my take on CI remains unchanged. Pick the worst of the worst AI and that would be mediocre CI. Put that in front of canned (pre-recorded music) and there you have it. I would be curious to see the difference in budgets for the two.

You know, I really do like your MIL. Cool halloween towels, beads... she is very thoughtful. And knows you quite well too from the sounds of things.

I too have to clean house this weekend. I will not be doing the vacuuming of course.

We do have daylight savings too. We (Canada) are adjusting our time switches to your (US) timetable.

My Rascal kitty is sitting on me and rubbing his head on my hands as I am trying to type. Must go, he is telling me enough computer.








Mich


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## lolalapcat

Good morning/evening!

Hahahaha, Mich! It's Texaco or Kwik Shop, for future stock buying! The agressive city driving is hell on gas mileage too. Gas prices have jumped .15 per gallon the last 2 weeks. Not that bad.

Ever since DH's cousin in Germany told us what they pay per liter, we don't complain. I think it worked out to about $7 per gallon...at it's highest we have only paid around $3. Can't change it, can't control it, I don't even look at the prices. We drive pretty fuel efficient cars and keep them in good shape, that's the best we can do.

Of course you are a spring break destination, I hadn't even thought of that! Pretty neat. This is the place people leave from to go on spring break.

I would like to see the questionnaire, if you wouldn't mind. I'm sure it would provoke some real thought and conversation.

My DH used to say he wanted a son, wanted a boy. Now he says he just wants a baby. Little girls make men melt a bit, don't they? When DH's cousins were here, he talked tanks and guns with the 10 yr old boy, but he was fascinated by the 8 yr old girl's focus on bracelet making. He even talked about buying her some beads and such.

I can appreciate your DH's concern. By the time another baby would be in college, he would be 70. Retirement, limited income, wanting to travel or take on new hobbies, wanting to have you to himself again, or just not worry as much. I'm picturing my Dad having a child in college right now. Eeek.

Dad had some issues yesterday morning...feeling disoriented. He could find the toothpaste in his bathroom--just couldn't remember where he keeps it. No signs of a stroke, no pain, nothing. I think it's stress. He admitted that he thinks it is too. He said 'you just go along, thinking you're handling it okay, when maybe you're not'. Poor guy. I don't know what to do.

That's interesting about CI, because on the Rockstar programs the Canadians are always frontrunners. And a lot of musical talent comes out of Canada. I had no idea the music was canned. Reminds me of an Elvis impersonator we went to see in Las Vegas--it was a hoot! One of the tackiest things I have ever seen, in Tackyland itself. I do so enjoy Vegas.

My inlaws are great, I am really lucky. They are fun and easy to get along with, very considerate and generous. Nice, nice people. MIL can be a bit complicated, but I think I have her figured out. She sent some new Easter towels, too! And 'people cookies' for the dog....

She loves to shop, and we haven't visited them in a while. Now that Detroit has an Ikea, there's going to be no stopping us! Do both of you have access to Ikea stores? I've only been in one, and LOVED it! The closest one is 8 hours away.







:

So Canada thought moving Daylight Savings Time was a good idea, or they did it because business is intertwined across the border? Even some of our states don't buy into DST. It will shift our waking hours to the lightest part of the day, but all this talk about energy savings...I'm still going to turn on lights in the morning and evening. It isn't THAT light out!

Oh, light evenings. That makes me want to sit on the porch swing.

It is ominous outside, very dark and heavy. This afternoon the storm is moving in, another 6-12" of snow is predicted. This has been the strangest winter! So I must get ready, instead of evening plans we moved to lunch so we can be off the roads by the time the front moves in!

Talk to both of you soon!

The Calm Lunatic


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## Mammax4

I suppose I better hold off on the gas company stock. I wouldn't want to be in trouble for insider trading. Guess I can't complain too much about our prices. I just resent the price jumps because it is gouging plain and simple. It stays high all summer long here too. We have one fuel efficient car and one gas piggy truck.

For sure it is interesting to see the difference with how a man acts with a boy and a girl. Girls have it going on right from the beginning...wrapping the Dad around their little finger. It is interesting to watch our boys even with our friends daughters. It sure brings out a gentler part of them.

I do understand the age related issue, we did have that discussion frequently. My point to him was he was almost there with Will anyway. He will be 63 when Will is done. At the time of our most serious discussions it wouldn't have been that big an age difference. The two year itch perhaps? No longer a baby around makes you want another. Who am I to kid? I would always want another.

The closest IKEA to us is on the mainland. It is a 1.5 hour ferry ride plus a 45 minute drive once off the ferry. Better than 8 hours, but when you add $100 to your shopping costs before you get in the store, you better be planning on doing some Serious Shopping! One of my cousins actually works for IKEA. They moved him down to Texas from Alberta. They are pretty protective of staff discounts though. You are not allowed to buy for other than yourself. You can get in big trouble/fired if they find out you purchased for someone else. Even if it is a family member!

Tell your Dad that he is not allowed to have other than normal health and function!! No disorientation allowed! Stress can show itself in odd ways. Give him an extra big hug. Would he be able to take St. John's Wort? Perhaps a good B complex added to his day might help.

I agree the Canadians on the Rockstar shows (I love that you both watch these too!) are really good. I wonder if the budget for CI is low. It really is quite tacky the canned music. I think that is what makes it so lame. At least if the music is live, the singer can change the key the song is in and manage a little better.

The explanation for switching the time change was to be more energy conscious. I think the reality is more like our Prime Minister is a yes man to Bush. It will be interesting to see what happens when Bush is done. We are suffering from extremes here... one party wants to support all the social programming at all costs and the other is all about big business regardless of the cost. That is probably enough politics out of me.

I love porch swings! We don't have a porch to swing here. I love verandas on houses. It is nice and relaxing to sit and swing.

I hope you don't get too much snow. It is beautiful, but can be a pain in the butt when you have to do so much driving.

I best get going, we have a case of 'Mom is busy let's make each other mad' happening right now.








Mich


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## Tan II

Hey Guys

Yes we do have an Ikea, and it's only about 45 minutes away. I love going there. I haven't been in a long time. I think I'll take my sister there. She's a shopaholic like me, and will love it too !

American Idol hasn't been on here. I normally watch it. I love it. I'm sure Australian Idol will start soon too. Will def watch that.

Tonight is hectic tv night. Can't wait. It starts with 'Ugly Betty', then "Grey's Anatomy', then "What about Brian". Told DH he has to organise the boys tonight as I am vegging in front of the tv ! Ha ha.

Got to go, Jamie is crying. Taking major strain at the moment. Having people in my space is no fun.

Chat soon. Big hugs
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi all.

I started to post earlier, but my brother who had been otherwise occupied came into the parlor and sat in full view of the computer screen. Ahh, no, I don't need him as an audience.

But we had a good problem-solving session as to what we can do to help Mom and Dad. I also talked with my friend the social worker yesterday, and she had some helpful suggestions. So I feel a little calmer about the whole deal.

I'm so sad about Andrea, I can hardly sit here and type. That just hurts my heart. I don't want any company, I don't want anyone to go through what I have. It's just so wrong.

And I feel like a pariah, like my signature is a liability. I want to greet the newcomers, but no one wants to know that this is a possibility, that what you think is the greatest pain can be repeated. My path should be their worst fear. I may have to go in and strip the signature, so as not to scare people.

Dark, dark, dark.

Tomorrow is bloodwork, early morning. Tonight I'm trying to make a bracelet for my Orange Friend. It's copper wire with purple, orange and copper beads. But my heart isn't in it. Maybe I'll just go to bed early.








just because.

Keri


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## Mammax4

I hope you are in a better way today Keri. I have been thinking about Andrea alot today. It has brought up some of the old ick for me. Not overwhelming, but thinking more of what I felt like last year and how she might be feeling now.

Tan, not long now until you have your space back. I know how it is both a blessing and a challenge to have family living with you. Has your sister found a home yet? I am guessing that their stuff must be arriving soon.

I think you should leave your signature Keri. I imagine it is difficult to see it there and to have others see it and consider the possibility...but...if you look at the signatures, there are quite a few that have multiple losses in various forms. To remove your signature is to deny others the opportunity to connect with your compassion and understanding. I know it is not about 'others', but to some degree it is. We are here for each other and ourselves - good, bad or otherwise. (not to mention Crazy!)

I guess what I am trying to say is that having your signature there makes you more approachable to someone that may have a similar experience. And well, you are a very eloquent woman, many people have benefited from your caring words.

I am glad you had the brainstorming with your brother. It is good to have a chance to do that without needing to be cautious of your parents hearing. I hope you came up with some things that will reduce your stress level.

Maybe our w'h'ine party should be in Australia -- nice weather, beaches all around And IKEA close by! That is a destination!! Too bad the shopping would be limited by the airplane ride. We should discuss the possibility of a gathering and set a time (month + year) for us to work towards. Tan? Keri? would you be game?

I didn't get to the bead shop this weekend. We ended up with company Saturday and I interviewed a family on Sunday. No time! We were successful in finding a dresser and a toddler bed for the foster children we will be (potentially) having here. That was good. I need to be ready before any of this happens.

Anyway, I best get cooking dinner or I may have a mutiny on my hands.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Hello friends.

My head is better, but still not great. Maybe more sleep would help. I keep saying that and not doing it.

Australia would be fabulous! Tan, would you like some more company?

I kind of have a subacute case of the 'fight or flight' response, I think. Going on a vacation would suit my neuroses well! Although it has probably been a week since I thought about running away. It's truly shame inducing, when I really have quite a nice life here. But sometimes it's all I want. "Where ever you go, there you are". Life would follow me, damn it.

Mich, I'm sorry you didn't make it to the bead store. It's tough when an obsession can't be fed, isn't it! DH bought me an enormous fishing tackle box, and I have filled it with beads and findings. I think he is laying the groundwork for buying more stuff for his own hobbies...

Tan, we watch "What about Brian" too. Or sometimes I listen to it while I'm on the computer, or making jewelry. Grey's has been good. They are talking about a spinoff series starring Kate Walsh (Addison), which would actually bum me out, because I like her character and am trying not to start watching any new series--too much tv already!

I'll have to think about the signature. The 'happy wife' part may need to change too, as I think these are the days my DH is wondering what the hell he got himself into. Poor guy. I. Must. Change. Just as soon as I have the energy to move away from the computer.

Mich, that's really neat that you are outfitting a room for your potential foster kids. Actually foster babies, since you will be getting the tiny ones. One of my doctor appointments, there was a couple there with their foster daughter, she was 6 pounds max, they had just gotten her the night before. She was all nestled in the woman's arms like she belonged there. It was beautiful, but sad too.

Tan, I hope you are feeling better. It's tough to have people encroaching on your space, on your routines. Even if you love them, it can be really hard. People are ultimately creatures of habit, and routines are comforting.

Coffee is nearly gone, that must mean it is time to get moving!








: The Crazy One


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## Mammax4

I too keep saying I need more sleep...and then climb into bed with a book at midnight. Not a good way to catch up on sleep. (reading Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince again)

I was writing all the appointments and fun stuff on my calendar today, boy... it is going to be a busy month! We are going to host 2 Japanese students for 4 nights this month. Dan started Japanese at school this semester and was Very keen to have students come. (it was his prompting that got us signed up - I'm a sucker for a cute face - what can I say?)

So, I have my 'H' follow up appointment, a meeting with our new dr (our current one is retiring), an appointment with our current dr - he is going to do a cortisone shot in my shoulder, dentist appointments, foster care home visit, exchange student home visit, exchange student meeting and exchange students coming... plus we have dinner guests this saturday, company sunday and dinner company in two saturdays. This is my next 3 weeks. Now, in all of this would anyone like to bet that my sil will call and say she has booked her ticket to come out for a visit?? (can you see me snickering and shaking my head...I am)

I feel some of your busy schedule stress coming on Keri. Yikes! What is that saying...misery loves company. Well, I am creating a miserable schedule for me, so that you don't feel all alone with your miserable schedule. Hey, it's only a month right? I can feel my neck getting more sore by the second.

I actually asked the resource social worker if we would be toddler only or if it would be birth to school age. All of our comments/references had been about toddlers. Yes, we are flagged as pre-school at any age. We still have the crib from Will, so we are set with that. We now have a toddler bed and 2 dressers too. You're right, it is sad. Sad beyond belief really.

We had a story in the newspaper that was about a young couple with a baby in a snugli type carrier. The couple was out at 4:30am on the weekend. The baby was strapped on the man, he was drinking something out of a bottle that he hid in his pocket when he entered the donut shop. The couple had no supplies at all for this little baby. It was cold and the baby was under the man's jacket in the carrier. Some of the patrons and staff thought it was odd and called the police. The news played a video clip to see if anyone could identify the adults. The man's grandma i.d'd him. The Ministry for Children and Families is involved in ensuring that the baby is not at risk. That was the story that made me call and confirm ages for us.

I think my trip to the bead store will have to wait. I will see how much retail therapy I am in need of. Maybe I could go while someone is vacuuming the floor. (I knew that excuse would be helpful at some point during my recovery....sorry, I can't not allowed!)

Keri, it sounds to me like you need a date night again. I am sure your DH isn't wondering what he got himself into, but he might be wondering how to help though. Date night...date night....date night... (can you hear me chanting to you?)

Well, it's 11:30pm now. Must take Harmony out before bed. Maybe I will beat my midnight bed time and be sleeping by then. (HA!)

Tan, how much longer? Is it soon? You can catch up and fill us in when your space is back. Looking forward to that!









Mich


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## lolalapcat

Hmmm, I should be reading Harry Potter, getting ready for the last one (do I get the regular edition or deluxe, regular or deluxe) but instead I am reading about the battle of Kursk. I have become a very strange person.

Mich, your schedule is...wow. Too much! What is wrong with your shoulder? I swear, I'm going to book a massage appt, and one for Dad too. I would suggest you do that, but when? Not in the next 3 weeks!

Mercy, not much there can be rearranged, can it?

Dan is a 'carpe diem' kind of kid, isn't he? Japanese, that would be such a neat language to learn! It is great that you are hosting the exchange students, that would be fun. Not to have them stay long term mind you, just visit for a few nights! You don't need anything else right now! Maybe they will cook, angle for that!

My mantra, one day at a time....

We are supposed to get around 4 inches of snow tonight...will I get a snow day, EVER??? I have to go in for bloodwork tomorrow. Damn, damn, damn. I would just take a day off, but it seems so frivolous (sp?) in the face of what my Dad is dealing with. So March 19, dermatologist appt, day off. But not particularly fun. Memorial Day, end of May. Day off.

So the re-HSG and re-laparascopic surgery are scheduled for August 3, earlier than I thought. They will let me cancel as long as I give them several weeks notice. So that buys me time to continue to ruminate over whether or not to do this. It's sick, but I've thought about ttc, and if we m/c again, going ahead with the surgery. That's so horrible I can't believe I typed it. That would be signing up to try again, for a 5th time. How much of a difference will the progesterone make? I am crippled by indecision. Would I be throwing away another baby if I ttc without redoing the endometriosis removal?

Must. Not. Think. Anymore.

Oh. The disregard with which some people treat their children. Please give me that baby. Please. Sigh.....at least they didn't leave him home alone, I guess. People.

Date night, that would be nice. I'll talk with DH. We haven't been to a movie in a couple of years, that might be fun, if I could focus on a movie. Stupid busy brain.

Tan, can I help your sister house hunt? I'll stay at a motel, I swear! Just want you back!!!








gotta go, late as usual.


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## Mammax4

I didn't have Harry handy so picked up some mindless drivel and read that for a bit. No, I didn't make it to bed early. (sigh) One day I will have a sleep that lasts longer than 5-6hrs.

I forgot to add the Kindergarten info night at the school next week. We have to register Will in April.

Will was talking about his foster sisters today. He was saying he will have 2 foster sisters, and they are both going to be '0'. (that is zero, as in less than 1) I told him I didn't know if I could handle that. I thought only one '0' at a time would be good. He was talking about how he will have 2 foster sisters and 2 big brothers. I wonder how he will respond if it is a foster brother he gets. Let's hope that doesn't happen on a day where he is crabby.

Dh and I were talking about how he has been going on about foster sisters the whole time. Dh was saying he had been mentioning his sister during/around the time of my last pg. I think that is interesting when you consider the dream I had.

My shoulder is still bugging me from this summer. I stood on a swivel chair and it swiveled on me and I fell. We were at my parent's land in their motorhome. I fell in between the table bed and the swivel chairs. My arm was Very swollen from shoulder to fingertips and bruised the size of my hand on my tricep. I couldn't move it at all. I ended up going for xrays because the dr thought my arm might be broken. I still can't sleep on my right side. Any pressure on my shoulder makes it hurt. So now I need to have a shot. I am hoping the dr can find the spot in office. I would rather not have to go to the radiologist, that would mean more waiting.

Dan is a bit of an instant gratification kinda guy. He is excited about learning Japanese and has been telling us some of the phrases/words he is learning. He was thinking it would be good that he is around, that way he could tell us what the students are asking. I suggested that a month of Japanese classes in school wouldn't make him fluent by the time the students were here. Perhaps if he was in his 2nd or 3rd year.... I don't know that I would want to have the students cook - they are going to be between 10 - 14 years old.

It has been snowing off and on a bit here today. None of it has stayed, but I wonder what we will wake up to in the morning! It has been very cold when I am out with Harmony for her last potty break at night. Crunchy grass.

Keri, it is much easier for me to consider an early start because it wouldn't be me that is going through it. I must say the thought has been going through my head too. Not that I want you to put your heart at risk by 'jumping the gun', but it might result in being sticky pregnant that much sooner. I too would suffer the same doubt. Should we, shouldn't we.... Aug is only 5 months away, but yet it is *5* months. The progesterone is a proactive treatment, but is it enough? If it is, you have a good start. If it isn't you are opening yourself up to more heartache. You have to do what you feel is best. I am just saying that I don't know if I would/could wait. I understand.

They are going to do both on the same day? That is good, best over and done with. Maybe they can do the HSG while you are sleeping. That would be good wouldn't it?

Just before Christmas here, there was a foster parent recruiting campaign going on. They were looking for families that could foster babies that were born/were going to be born with prenatal exposure. There were 12 babies due within a few weeks of each other - they were all being born to crystal meth users. That is very sad.

On that down note, I am going to go sit on the couch with my 'blankie' and a book.

see you tomorrow!







Mich


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## lolalapcat

And it is a Snow Day---the highway is closed! DH didn't have to go to work either, so we will try to make it to the bloodletting this afternoon. I cannot believe this weather! Usually February (and March!) are so benign, snow-wise. If only the dog would stop whining, he is going to make this one long day. No, he doesn't have to go potty!

Oh, Mich, your little one is going to school! That's kind of sad.

Interesting, all the sister talk. Is it wishful thinking, premonition, intuition? It sure makes me wonder.

It has always pained me, what people do to hurt babies and children. Wanting a child so much, it only hurts my heart more. That such a miracle can be treated with so little regard is the utmost of sins. Someday I do hope to follow in your path with fostering.

Ah, yes, the fall from the chair. I am sorry to hear that is still plaguing you. If it's any consolation, I fell on my right elbow in high school, and did some big damage. Never had shots or surgery, although I probably should have. It bothered me for years, usually when storms would come through or from overuse. After years, it finally healed. I'm hoping it doesn't come to that, my point is that damage that seems permanent or long term may heal just fine.

Thanks for sharing in my confliction about surgery/no surgery. Something that would work in the favor of the 5 month delay is whatever they have to do for the carcinoma. I really don't know if local anasthesia or antibiotics are a problem, but if they want to do topical medication, that could be an issue with pregnancy. I hear some of the topical treatments for skin cancer can be pretty wicked. Oh the fun. Not to mention, 6 weeks for an appointment starts to add up. It might make sense to wait because of that. If it's going to be 3 or 4 months anyway....

And they have me on the cancellation list. If they said, how about Friday? I would do it, I'm pretty sure. I really do want to cover as many bases as possible, even though I am horrified at the idea of more surgery.

Yes, the HSG would be under general anasthesia. But I may dig in my heels. What in the world could they learn from a second one that they didn't from the first? And it was soooo painful, I don't want it done to my body, even if I'm not awake. It's still my body they are doing that to, and I feel a bit protective of it.

I got over 8 hours of sleep lastnight! Finally, I did something I said I was going to do.

Now Mom has a chrysoprase bracelet like the one I made for myself, and I'm making her a fun stretchy red one. Made the first earrings lastnight, not sure I like them. Usually hoops are my earrings of choice, so maybe it's just not what I am used to seeing.

Hungry, must go forage for food.


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## Tan II

Hi Gals









Mish, you are one busy person. Wow ! Where do u find the time for "me time" ? I hope u do.
One of Tayga's subjects at school is Japanese. He comes home with phrases or words, and I don't have the foggiest what he is saying ! It's great that he's learning another language. He goes on a thursday after school to learn hebrew.

I don't understand people who can hurt babies or kids. It's sick. I get SO angry when I hear stories of abuse.

I have never read a Harry Potter book ! Can u believe it. Somehow it doesn't apeal to me. I might be wrong if I were to pick up a H.P. and start reading.

I hope your shoulder is better. That must have been so sore when u fell. I'm sure not being able to use your arm, or having pain, made u realise how much one relies on their limbs. When I hurt my back last year, I realsied how I took being pain-free for granted. Luckily I am back to normal and ok, but I was in agony at the time.

Keri, 'just keep swimming, just keep swimming....'. I'm sure you are sick and tired of all the tests and going up and down to the doc. That you just want an answer either way. It must be really stressful for you and dh. I hope this is bringing you two more together, and not apart.

I hope you and dh jumped back into bed and watched movies or had brekkie in bed or something on snow day ! We don't have snow in winter. Up on the mountains, but not where I live. It must be fun, and messy !

Glad to hear u got more sleep. I need some of that. I am soooo tired. Been going to bed so late, and waking up early. I am grumpy because I'm tired. I amd really so tired, but I just can't get into bed early. Not before 11.30pm or later.

Keri, I have to tell you, so many people have been commenting on my bracelets !







You never know, you might a new profession !! I'll take a pic to show u how they look.

No major news my side, besides the usual. My sister is still looking for a place. She has put in a few applications, and is waiting to hear. Fingers crossed !

I did the astology workshop on wed for Tayga. It was great, but the woman who took it tended to forget that we have basic knowledge. Their were times we were lost. My friend who is studying to do charts etc. said she would take my info and help me to understand what's going on in the chart. It's all so confusing.

Jamie is sleeping. I'm going to relax with a cup of tea and have some "me time".

Chat soon (I hope)
Tan


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## Mammax4

Hey Tan!! good to have you back with us!!









Very cool that Tayga is learning Japanese And Hebrew. We have french (our 2nd official language) as a mandatory course in elementary and middle school. This is the first year that Dan could take Japanese. Is Tayga taking a Hebrew language class, or is it a Jewish faith based class? (too nosey?)

I hope your sister has some good news about a place of their own soon. Is their furniture there yet?

Local anaesthetics is not systemic, so not a problem. Antibiotics can cause issues, depending on what kind you are given. There are some dr's that think antibiotics make a positive pg environment. If you are of a mind to try, just make sure the antibiotics would be safe during pg.

It is official, 3 of the 4 families that I deal with are now expecting. One is due in June, one in Oct. and one in Nov. The woman that had the m/c in Dec. is expecting again. (my fault) How you ask?? I told her to get busy. Her son had been talking about his baby sister (he is an only child to date) and I said if it was 'that' time, she should have a go. She said they did due to my encouragement. (hopefully it is sticky and I can feel okay about suggesting they get busy) I told her today that if it was a girl she needed to include the name Elizabeth. Why you ask? That is my middle name and I was joking around with her. The funny thing is they had apparently already decided to call a girl baby Elizabeth as the wife's 2 grandmothers were Elizabeths. Funny hey?

I spoke with the resource social worker again today. He was telling me that there was a sibling pair, 1 1/2 yr and 2 1/2yr, brother and sister that needed a foster home. He wants us fostering yesterday! This has sparked a conversation between Dh and I about what we can and can't do and how we do it. Yikes! I had told the social worker that we wouldn't be able to foster (due to other commitments) until summer time. He was trying to feel the waters as to how committed we were on the other end and if we might break the obligations and start now. Sad, it is every time I talk to him that he has more children that could come into our home. It has been only 3 weeks since we started the application process and there have been 7 children the I know about that have needed placement. It really breaks my heart.

I guess we will see how things go when we meet with him on Monday. Guess I better clean up my house like crazy this weekend hey? Too bad I still can't vacuum. Maybe soon.

I am going to go and partake of some of that 'me' time and some 'couple' time.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Hello!

Tan, my fingers are crossed for your sister's application! Settling into normal life will be good for all of you.

That's good that your friend will help you figure out the astrology charting. Hopefully it will start to make sense, because that would be soooo interesting!

Goodness, it makes so much sense that foreign languages are introduced in grade school and junior high, when kids' brains are still sponges! I wonder when they do that around here. Hebrew and Japanese--Tayga could be a world traveler! Dan too, if he sticks with the Japanese! Very cool.

DH has a mind for languages, he speaks pretty decent German and some Korean. I speak a bit of Spanish, but not much. School was too long ago!

Mich, how much French do you speak?

DH and I spent the day together. He did a bunch of shoveling, we tried to go to the big town for the blood draw, but the State Patrol was telling people to pull off. Turns out it was just so a semi tractor trailer could get towed, so we did wind up making it to the blood draw, then went to eat and did some shopping. It was a nice day together.

Although I did figure out that I missed a blood draw...I should have been in about 3 days ago. Damn it, damn it, damn it. All of these trips, all of the early mornings and awful road conditions, and I just...miss one? Crap.

Trying to calm down. Can't change it. If I have to redo the series, I can do that. Why not? Deep breathing, deep breathing.

Yes, some antibiotics can increase cervical mucus, and I could use a bit of help in that department. All of a sudden, I have a chess game in my head, trying to manipulate doctors to prescribe what I want when I want....2 1/2 weeks until the dermatologist appt. I am anxious to learn what I need to know. Yesterday I bought MORE sunscreen...it's all I can do right now.

Mich, 2 babies at once, oh does that tug at the heart. When in the summer will your schedule be calmed down?

Has your SIL called yet to tell you she is coming to visit?

That's interesting about the name Elizabeth, all kinds of coincidences. The universe works in strange ways. You will be surrounded by pregnancy, how are you doing with that?

Tan, I only started reading HP when a friend gave me the first book. It didn't appeal to me either, until 2 or 3 pages in....it is infectious. Fun, fun brain candy. You could start reading it to Tayga, that would be super neat, although he may be a shade young for some of the darker themes in it. The series starts out pretty innocent, and each progressive book takes on more serious themes.

Thanks for passing on the compliments on the bracelets! I have 2 to give to my Mom now, and 2 others in progress. If I thought people would buy bracelets, I wouldn't be opposed to recouping some of my investment in masses of beads, but have enough going on now that I don't even know how I would go about it! Anyway, I'm pretty involved in giving them away right now.

I'm around men so much of the time, no one notices jewelry, or if I have cut 15 inches of hair or am trying a new lipstick color. Sometimes I really miss working around women. Sometimes I think men wouldn't notice a 10 ton asteroid sitting in the front yard.

Tan, this is good snowman/snow fort type of snow, come on over! It can be fun. DH said yesterday if we had kids he'd be out helping them build a snow fort. Sigh.

Okay, I have to figure out if I can drive to work. There are POTHOLES in the ICE. Bizarre. I may have to give things a chance to thaw a bit, just to be on the safe side.


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## Tan II

The application was APPROVED !!!!! Yay !! They move out in 2 weeks








I feel like I'm being mean.
I know my sister is just as happy. I'm sure it is hard for her too. Living in someone else's space. Not for much longer.

Tayga's time spent at Hebrew school is divided between learning hebrew and about Judaism.

Mish, I hope u had good couple/me time. DH and I could do with a bit of that. One day !

Keri, I hope you are feeling less stressed. Don't beat yourself up about the blood draw.

I hope you both have a great weekend.

Chat soon
Tan


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## Mammax4

:







: YEAH!!! WE GET TAN BACK!!!







:







:
and Tan you get your house back

I too was HP hesitant. I read the first book when Dan was in gr.2. He was totally absorbed in the series at that time. I wanted to read the first book so I would know who he was talking about. Well... I read all the books we had within 10 days. I am not a fantasy book reader and I was completely hooked. I have also read Eragon and a few other books that are not my typical choice. Good, good, good! Infectious is a great description Keri.

No news on the SIL front (yet). I am not looking forward to that conversation. Perhaps I should stop going through it in my head before it actually happens. Puts me in a defensive state before I say hello.









Mon Français est limité. (My French is limited.) My name is coincidental, a variation on the Michael theme that my maternal side seemed to favor. (Michael, Michele, Misha...)

Sorry you missed a blood draw Keri. I hope it doesn't mean a complete repeat. You need some down time.

My schedule won't slow down on its own until the end of the year. I am working on when I will change my focus. I want to be fair to the families I work with, but I don't want to wait until the end of 07 to start fostering. So many things to think about. It is odd for me not to have the families I work with as the main consideration of my schedule. I keep saying to Dh that I can decide when I want to do this, it can be on my schedule. Yikes! I am not sure how to handle that!! I have 13 1/2 years in my own business, this will mean big changes. Still with children as the focus, but different. I said to Dh that I would be like a stay at home mom if we had foster children. I was kind of excited by that idea. I have started a list of questions to ask the resource social worker when he comes on Monday. If you have any thoughts, please voice them. 3 heads are way better than 1.

Robitussin can make cervical mucus more conducive to sperm travel. Have you tried that? or is it that you want more, not slippery-er?

For now, I am okay with all the pg's around me. I have one that has a little baby belly at the moment, the other 2 are just starting. I guess that would be good thinking for getting them away from me sooner than later too. No visual every day would perhaps increase the chances of me being in an okay space. I have an almost distance about pg now. It is weird. Maybe the inability for me to be helps, I don't know.

Dh and I had a good discussion about fostering last night. He is so sweet and protective of these babies that have not even been shown to us yet. I have to keep reminding him the purpose of fostering is to eventually have the child go back with their parents. It is not a forever, just for now. He is looking at it as more like an adoption. I don't look forward to saying goodbye to the children that come to us. That will be hard.

Hope you were able to avoid the ice potholes. That doesn't sound fun at all.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Congratulations, Tan, that's great news!

It's not mean at all, it's getting back to normal...but with your sister near, hooray!

OH, would your sister take care of the kids a bit, so you and your DH could get some couple time? While she is still in your house...

Mich, you have dropped French into the conversation a couple of times, so I knew you spoke some. But c'mon, your name is Frenchy, you should be fluent! I mean, my name is of English origins and look at me go!

That would be a big change, letting your business go. But then you would be in a position to take on younger babies, or siblings....it would make it much easier. It is probably an enormous shift, to not be putting someone else's schedule first!

Hmm. So you and I are both in this big Delayed Schedule together. Not that I wanted company, but here we are.

I'm not all that concerned about the quality of our CM, as we get pregnant pretty easily. I'm concerned about WHY the CM is substandard, and if it's hormonal, is it setting up our babies for failure.

Oh, the things I think of in an average day. I miss the days of thinking about a new lipstick, or where my favorite band was playing, or shopping. Wow, I used to be pretty shallow, before I was morbid.

Personal opinion----pre-empt the SIL. Call and inquire as to when she could come visit, as her nephews miss her. Just an idea, so it would make her feel good and put you in better control of the scheduling.

I finished the copper/orange/purple bracelet last night, not sure I like it. I'll take tools along so I can amend it, on friend's advice.

Me, late? Yeah. Gotta run. Bloodwork and ick roads. Although they should be better today.

I hope you are both having a good weekend!


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## Mammax4

Well, plans changed for this weekend. What was supposed to be the start of a busy schedule ended up getting cancelled. Both Dan and Chris are not well, they may have a Noro-type virus. Fevers and nausea and headaches too. (poor guys) Will woke up with a cough and bit of headache this morning. Will and I are supposed to meet his friend for lunch at McDonald's. They can play and have lunch. They haven't seen each other since school started. Before that his friend was with us every weekday for over 4 years.

My name is either French or Hebrew, it depends on the book you use to look it up. I didn't continue French in high school, only as long as I had to do it. I filled my schedule with business and marketing courses when I was in high school. In addition to all the regular matriculation courses like Algebra, Chemistry, Biology, English... I know some bad words in other languages, does that count?

I have thought about having Dh call sil to see about visit time frame, but I am also of a mind to leave it be. Maybe she will not come if we don't push. I am feeling a little cranky about her attitude at Christmas and am not looking forward to her being here at all. She is one of those house guests that has over stayed their welcome about 10 minutes after they walk in the door. She loves our boys and they love her, so we do what we have to. It's not that she is a bad person (I wouldn't hesitate if she was bad, she wouldn't be welcome here) it is just that she has horrid manners and little consideration for other peoples things and space.

It would/will be a big change to let my business go. There are so many complications/considerations with what I do now that it would be nice to be free of them. When I first started it was a lot more common sense than regulatory interference. Now the regulations are getting to the point that I am feeling claustrophobic having to abide by them. I am licensed, there for regulated by a gov't body. It would be different if I didn't live where I work, but I do. Things like having one of the boys bikes outside in the yard could increase a hazard rating. I have $3000 worth of play equipment that I can't have in my back yard, because I have to jump through hoops to be allowed to put it there. There is an involved approval process that I would need to go through in order to perhaps be able to have the play structures in the back yard. Not to mention I would need to spend several thousand dollars in order to do what they want me to do in my yard. No thanks, not when it was okay to be in the back yard less than 2 years ago. Don't I sound like a whiner!

Did your friend like her bracelet? I bet she did. She is your orange friend right?

I am nervous and excited to meet with the resource worker tomorrow. I will let you know how it goes. He is actually going to eat dinner with us. He is coming at 5 and I asked if he would like to eat with us. He didn't want to impose at first, but eventually came around to saying yes. I think I am going to make spagetti sauce today. I have had a request for that and lasagna, so I must get cooking.








Mich

I read the newspaper this morning, I always read the obituaries - morbid, I know. Today, there were *2* stillborn babies listed in the obituaries. How devistating for those families. Part of me wants to reach out to them and send a card or something. That would be too weird, but it is so sad. I hope they have a good support network and patient family and friends.


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## purposefulmother

Hi Tan... I couldn't read your moving story without letting you know that I am so, so sorry that your baby couldn't be here for that birthday. I think that people assume, wrongly, that by not talking to you about the baby, you will feel better. I' lost a fullterm baby shortly after birth and I do NOT mind when people ask about him or remember his birthday... I think as parents who've lost a child our greatest fear is that it will be like they were never here at all except in OUR memories. Your son is amazing, to remember his brother in that way... it speaks volumes about how you have raised him. Take care mama, much love.

Joy


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## Tan II

Hi Joy

Thank you for your words. I sometimes wonder if I am too quick to react or overreact.

I am proud of my son that he still talks about Gabriel, and that in his world he is still part of our family. Why not.

I am sorry for your loss. I hope you have lots of love and support around you.
We give hugs for free here !

Tan


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

I hope Dan & Chris are better. Poor things.

Good luck for the resource worker. Good move inviting him over for dinner !!

Keri, I don't think you were shallow. I think life had no complications then. That you were lucky to have been untouched and naive as to the horrible things in life. Imagine having a problem of what colour lipstick to buy ........ the good old days ! I hope one day you go back to having that being your biggest problem.

I had an arument with my sister this morning. Had to happen eventually. It wasn't a hair-pulling kind of argument ! Just a "you did this this, and you said that" ! It was good because we have cleared the air.

Off to do the washing !

Chat soon
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan, now all I can picture is you and your sister pulling each others hair! Did the argument remind you of the Good Old Times, when you still lived in the same home?

I get so mad at my brother sometimes, I can't even speak. It's rare these days, but he can push my buttons like no one else. Years of experience.

Poor Dan and Chris, I hope they get better soon, and Will avoids it. That's rotten luck.

Mich, I want to come play in your Death Trap BackYard! It sounds like fun. Have you had many casualties? I am sorry Big Brother has complicated your life. I know they have the kids best interests in mind, but they aren't very realistic.

I can see how you would want the Bureaucratic monkey off your back. And that's a lot of money. Is it safe to assume that they don't have such regulations for foster parents?

Yes, the bracelet is for the Orange Friend, she really liked it, hooray! But she is right handed and wears a watch on the left, so will be trying to put on the bracelet with her not so smart hand...it could be a challenge, I hope that doesn't deter her. She asked me to make a bracelet with black stones, to go with her black suit. I didn't know she had a black suit, that kinda saddens me. She lives her life in full color, you know?

I read the obits too, and think the same thing, I'd like to reach out to some of these people. Reading the obits, is it morbid, or just staying in touch with the fact that life ends?

Oh, I was wondering yesterday if your experience in palliative care would actually make it easier for you to have foster kids moved back out of your home....I can't quite make the full connection there, but having a healthier perspective on life flow, or on endings....work with me here, the thought is incomplete!

The argument going on in the other thread is painful, isn't it? Thanks for jumping in, Mich. My brain is bleeding, I don't know if I could have done it. And I don't have time, as I must leave for another bloodletting, the biggest one. Maybe they can find out why I keep having 'heavy periods'.

Good luck with the resource worker! Feeding him is not only nice, but a good tactic for letting him get a feel for your family life and parenting style.

Tan, hang in there, just a little while longer! Then full computer access....


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## Mammax4

No resource worker tonight. He is sick and will reschedule when back at work. Darn it! That is okay though, we have the 7pm exchange meeting and no rush to get to both tonight.

Can you imagine the danger in my backyard!! It is a veritable training course for survivalists. HEllo... bureaucratic monkey...I have my own kids play back there, do ya think I would put them out there if it was dangerous?? Unfortunately, the one rotten apple spoils the bunch.

In over 13 years, I have had some road rash, bee stings and one small cut by an eye that went to the clinic because of the proximity to the eye. I like to be safe and Not sorry. Scary environment hey?

The cut was my first incident report, and it happened last year. The Mom and I joked that it Had to be him, Mr. Trippy that would be my first.

The fostering regulations are more than just being in a family home, BUt, they are with consideration to ages and reasonable expectations. I can have my medicines high up in the cupboard because I am dealing with young children. In licensing terms, All medication needs to be kept locked up regardless of location.

I don't know about the morbidity of obituaries. Haven't figured that one out myself. It is a reality that is for sure. I feel so bad for those two families.

I am not sure how the palliative care will/would tie in. I had the benefit of not having an attachment to those I was with at the end of their lives. It could be a help in knowing I need to 'debrief' about things. I think that the daycare aspect of my life will help me. I have had more children than I can remember come and go through my life. I tried to count, but am never sure I have remembered them all. There have been times when I have wanted to keep the child away from the parent(s). Times when I have gone above and beyond what I would normally to, so that those children could have a safe space to be in.

I do not doubt that it will be difficult to have some of the foster children return home. As the home has the potential to be less than what you would want them to return to. That sounds crappy for me to say. I don't mean for it to be crappy. It's just that if the home is better than it was, the child will go back. I would like for all children to be safe, well fed, secure, nurtured and loved. How I would accomplish these things is not how someone else might.

The other thread is sad indeed. I could not let my own 'blah' sit unheard. I did like a comment that followed though...'you are wearing flipflops to my babies funeral'. Well said.

Must go, Will just woke up and is saying he needs to throw up.


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## lolalapcat

Frightening environment indeed!

My own childhood--I fell out of a tree (knocked the wind out of me, but didn't keep me out of trees), got hit in the face by a couple of softballs, was on the rope swing when it broke, stung by a wasp, bitten by a mouse, zinged by electric fence, lots of poison ivy and nettles rashes. Average, I would think.

We were rough and tumble kids, tackle football and all. I was the only girl, so I just stayed with the pack. It was a really fun childhood.

The foster care regulations sound like basic house prep for having kids around. Something tells me this is going to be a piece of cake for you!

I'm sorry Will is now sick also, and the resource worker. What is going around up there? I hope everyone heals rapidly. I'm sending virtual chicken soup and hugs.

The lab told me yesterday they had messed up the beta endorphin test they drew on Saturday. I said "you're supposed to be freezing all the samples and sending them to my clinic!!!" Poor victim nurse said, I'll call my supervisor. I said "your supervisor is not going to be able to explain this so I understand it." They drew 7 vials and sent me out the door, where I wept in my car at the deep continuing frustration of this process, and the thought that 23 days, 1000 miles, 6 ultrasounds, 20 something vials of blood and who knows how much time and money may not be enough. I already messed up once, by not going in. And now if the lab has run all the tests, instead of letting my clinic use their standards on ALL the blood, and they destroyed one of the samples.....

I am worn down. And about to start 3 straight weeks at work, no days off (except for the dermatologist appt). It's fun, I like meeting all the people who come here for our classes, but the timing is wretched.

Thanks for fighting the fight, Mich. You are my hero! That was the first time I felt like my losses, our losses were disdained, belittled. That's why I never went to the hospital's support group, I didn't think my losses would count. Even though they have created a deep current of sorrow that runs through my life, and may never go away. Here, everyone's losses count. That's why I live here. Thanks for defending this place, it is worth it.


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## Mammax4

Well, I had the 'h' follow up today. I am cleared for regular activities - no restrictions. The woman that works in the office asked me if I was bored. I didn't clue in to what she was meaning. She remembered that I don't sit well. I said that I was alright, I wasn't doing anything stressful, but had been up and busy since surgery. Hmmm...good thing she didn't know I went back to work on day 12 post op. I did fess up to the dr a bit. He said everything looked great and was healing well, no problems. The pathology showed I had endometriosis. That is what caused the ovary to adhere to the uterus. Explains a few things cycle wise too.

I really like that gyne dr. I was thinking about getting some kind of resources together and presenting a support group for pregnancy/birth loss to him. He could be a great first line contact. He does ER time and was the one that did my D&C last year. One step at a time... have to figure out my day to day life first.

There are some nasty bugs going around right now. Chris' school had 200 students away at some point last week. Dan was sick, Chris is on the mend. Yikes! No sharing thank you. There is a 'Noro-type' virus and a nasty cold bug going around 'up here'.

I don't really know what to say about the lab.







I don't know if I could contain myself very well in your shoes. Apparently some MAJOR lack of communication going on between the clinic and the lab. I am hoping that you are free and clear of all the tests once this bit is finished. Bad timing to have this as the state of mind before the 3 weeks of straight work. Sounds like a massage on the dermatologist day would be a good idea.

Sometimes I can't keep my thoughts to myself. I was saddened by the direction of the other post. I was sad to see how one new person was not feeling that this was a positive place. This is, in my experience, a great place to be. It was the first time I felt 'off' about here. It is so important to look at how we can help each other in troubled times. How we got here isn't really the point. Not to me anyway.

I must go for dinner now.

Are you counting the days Tan? Soon!!! just keep swimming.....






















- a little more love than normal, because I need to give it as much as I think you need to have it!!


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## lolalapcat

Tan? Are you okay? I hope you are just busy. I get a little concerned when we don't hear from you for a few days. And miss you, of course.

Mich, we haven't asked in a long time, but how are you, physically? It's great that you have the all-clear, although I had forgotten you were on any kind of restriction, you've been so busy!

Endometriosis, grrr. It is ubiquitous. Why do so many women have it? Why does it cause different problems for everyone?

And your head? Both of you? It's been awhile since we did a head check...my brain is spilled all over the thread, I think you know where mine is at.

Okay, Mich. I looked for the brochure from the hospital for the support group, but can't find it. Hmm. I thought I had quarantined all m/c info into one file. I do remember that the group met once a month, and was geared toward any kind of pregnancy/birth loss. There was a phone number to call for people like me, who had early losses, if we had questions about belonging in the group. I never called it.

2 booklets--one is 'Miscarriage, A Guide for Patients' published by the American Society for Reproductive Medicine. Let me know if you want addresses and phone number, otherwise I am assuming you may want to look for the Canadian counterpart to this group. It addresses causes, facts, fallacies, and the emotional impact, along with information for 3 support groups. 12 pages.

The other is 'Too Soon a Memory', a Guide for Parents suffering a Miscarriage. It is a very sweet book, talking about some clinical stuff, but mostly grief, how long you may grieve, how friends and family may react, poems, quotes, support resources. 49 pages. It is published by Perinatal Loss in Portland, Oregon. www.griefwatch.com, [email protected].

The first book was given to me by our 2nd RE, between losses 2 and 3. It was redundant information, as I had already scoured the internet, but it is something I would have appreciated a lot with the 1st m/c. The second book was given to us when we were at the hospital for the d&c. I couldn't touch it for weeks.

And in it was the support group brochure--I'll send you a separate email with it's mission and purpose, Mich. Also a note from the hospital's staff and admin, offering condolences, the booklet, and the phone number for their pastoral services department. The form for the disposition of remains. The card from the flowers our friends sent. I'm gonna go cry now.

I have to go for bloodwork anyway. I talked with the clinic yesterday, and they said they will not ask me to redo the series, they will work with whatever they get from the lab. So I guess that's okay. I'm still disgruntled.

Does Will have what Dan and Chris have? Hope not. I am glad to hear they are on the mend.

Thanks for the hugs, I tried to send them back, but the smiley server keeps timing out. ((((((((hugs))))))) there.


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## lolalapcat

Now this just makes me feel certifiably crazy---having a conversation with myself. I'll keep it brief, does that make me less nuts?

My series of testing is done! I was so happy to see my period...except DH and I had scheduled in dtd, which we haven't been doing since charting, so as not to skew CM testing....and my period showed up a day early. Which makes me feel bad for DH (and me) cause some nookie would be good for our marriage.

But also because this whole cycle was a little off. I know I only have 4 months to go on, but this one was not like the others. And it's the one they scrutinized. Why couldn't it have just been normalish? Grrr.

Sometimes I wonder if I should talk to someone about anxiety. On one hand, I'm totally justified in being a worrier, but sometimes I think it verges on the unhealthy. If I can worry, I do.

Anyhow. Got the info packet on the surgery lastnight. Made me crabby, I wanted to throw it across the room like a petulant child would. I don't wanna, I don't wanna, I don't wanna!!!!

DH has to go to Texas for 3 days for work. He was talking about not wanting to go, and I was sitting there with the packet of information on my lap. I held it up and said "I trump your trip to Texas, and raise you an unwanted surgery." He shut up. Crap, he has friends down there he is going to visit, what the hell is his problem? I'd love 3 days ANYWHERE else right now, especially 3 FUN days.

I've told him twice I would like to start adoption proceedings, so if we do this surgery thing and heaven forbid, have another m/c, we are not on square one again next year. He does not respond. I am getting really, really cranky about this.

Why am I so angry? It's not hormones, if you talked to me 2 days ago I would have blamed PMS. Is it just the idea of surgery? I've known about that, it's nothing new. Maybe I'm feeling put upon, all the burden is on me. Heaven forbid my (D)H venture into territory where he isn't particularly comfortable. Ah, and stress. Must stop thinking.

Complete psycho, signing off.

Mich, I hope all of your busy schedule is coming together, and your family is healthy again.

Tan, I hope you are having fun...how are your boys doing?


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## Mammax4

Trust me, you are NOt talking to yourself. Well...not here anyway!









I have been up to my eyeballs in sick kids. All three are in the throws of a nasty cold. The nausea and other stomach flu issues are done, but now they are full on into their colds. Chris didn't go to school at all this week. Dan stayed home yesterday and today. Will had naps EVeryday except today. (Will hasn't napped since he was about 15mos old) This bug has knocked the heck out of those poor boys.

Gonna be pushy here... don't read if you are in a less than receptive mood... Have you decided what agency you are going to use to adopt a child? If so, phone them and get them to send you an info package. You can have the info there and go over it. Maybe if it is there it will spark some conversation. How long does it take to go through the process there? It takes 2-3 years through the Ministry for Children and Family Development here. (that is a gov't agency, not private)

Gotta passport? I've got 3 days of fun to share with you. How about Easter Weekend? Heck, then I could have 4 days of fun for you. I'm sorry your Dh is having a woe is me moment. HELLO!!

Want me to talk to him? I could straighten him out for ya!
















I am glad your tests are finished. It is unfortunate that the cycle wasn't your norm, but perhaps that will reveal aspects that would not have been evident in a normal cycle. Sorry you got the surgery papers last night.

It is important, Keri, that he know how you are feeling about all of this. The surgery, the potential pregnancy (and all of the stress around that) what if there would be another miscarriage (and the stress and worry you feel about that) and his hesitance/reluctance to discuss adoption. What I am hearing is you really want to be a Mom. Regardless how your child comes to you, that being a Mom is what is important. How could he not respond to that?

Maybe he is scared. It sounds like he was starting to 'get' the surgery reluctance. Maybe he doesn't want to start down the adoption road, because he doesn't know what it entails. Heck, maybe he's just being a twit! (just kidding) Talk to him...

You don't need this added stress when you don't have any real chance for down time for the next 3 weeks. Is the first weekend this weekend??

Physically, I am fine. In fact, perhaps better than before. I have only had occasional lower backache, nothing else. I use the small Thermacare heat wraps and that makes it go away. (I'm not a pill taker - especially if it isn't really needed) The endo makes me wonder about a few things. Makes me wonder if that was the problem with my pregnancy, there is an increased risk of miscarriage with endo.

Mentally, well...I don't know if I was ever 'fine'. I suppose fine is a relative term. I am as fine now as I was before. Maybe that is directly related to the amount of alcohol I have consumed lately. (that is a joke - incase you were wondering)

I gotta tell you, I was going to call the gyne's office to check and see if it would be a problem to see the dr while I had my period. I was thinking that he would have a hard time seeing my stitches through all of that....HELLo!!! Duh. Don't get those anymore.... I am glad I didn't make the call, I would have felt very foolish. Although we would have had a great laugh about it together. I can be such a dork sometimes.

I suppose I best get off here. We are going to watch one of our really long movies tonight. (Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings)








Tan.... are you reading? How much longer? How is Jamie doing with the continued disruption of 'normal'? How is Tayga doing? Still enjoying school? (see, I asked so many questions, you just gotta reply!)

Hope you are both well.









Mich


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## lolalapcat

Mich, I am sorry all your boys are on chapter 2 of being sick, that is so wrong! Poor guys. You must have some wicked viruses running around there. And you tempt me to come visit!

No, I don't have a passport, although I have been thinking about getting one. I've only traveled on this continent, and haven't needed a passport up til now!

What I need a vacation from is my own head, how do I pull that off?

We drove 2 hours to visit DH's Dad, who is in a neighboring town for a meeting (traveling with other people, so not coming here to visit). We talked for a lot of the drive. DH sees adoption as admitting failure. And he doesn't want to have his life inspected, or adopt an older child, or one that doesn't look like us. He's scared about prenatal care being out of our control. He has lots of issues, and I respect that. He told me to get more information, so I will.

Once again, so many choices. Private agency, private adoption, religious agency, public agency....average time is between 4 months and 2 years. The more picky you are (wanting an infant, particularly a caucasian infant) increases the wait time. And of course, biological parents can back out of the adoption process, so nothing is set in stone for a while. More heartbreak risk.

We talked about this years ago, long before we started trying to have kids. Why? Because I have always known my autoimmune disorder came with increased risk of infertility and miscarriage. Then he said he wouldn't care about what color an adoptive child was. It's different when you are actually in the shoes, I guess. Part of it is the size and whiteness of the town in which we live. Not much diversity. I too think it would be hard on a child to stand out that much, to fight the good fight alone. Not that people here are racist, but I don't see it---how could I? I'm not naive enough to say it doesn't exist just because I don't see it.

But I feel guilty, that we would put that racial qualifier on a potential adoptive child. It feels wrong to me. I swear, my DH is not a racist @sshole, I know that's how it comes across. He absolutely is not. OMG, this makes me so defensive.

I am so certifiably insane. I just want to spend 4 hours shopping for lipstick and shoes and get together with friends and have casual conversation!!! WHO STOLE MY LIFE!??!!???! Where is the 'off' switch for my brain???

Sigh. Sorry for yelling. For whatever reason, I am stuck in Angry.

Mich, endometriosis. Yuck. Who knows if it played a part in your m/c? It sure could have. Stupid stuff. Once again, I am tired of medical mysteries. I want definitive answers. Is there an endometriosis expert out there? Or does it not rate a specialist? Nevermind, I don't want to know what they would have to tell us anyway.

I am not much of a pill taker either, but have taken more Excedrin this week than in the last year. Perpetual headache. I think it's my brain trying to mutiny.

Blahblahblah. I feel sorry for asking you to read this, I'm so tired of my own thoughts, it seems wrong to inflict them on anyone else.

Hope you had a good movie night...I'm not sure how I could pick! It would make DH ecstatic if I would volunteer to watch the Lord of the Rings trilogy again, and they are really good...

Tan, don't make me fly down there just to check on you---I don't have a passport, and would wind up in an Australian clink! But I'll do it if I have to! Oh, I met a woman from South Africa lastnight, she had the most beautiful, unusual accent...she lives in Texas now. Not a hint of Texas in her accent. I saw your face when she spoke.

Gotta go pretend I'm normal. I hope you are both having a relaxing weekend.


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## Tan II

Hey , it's me









How funny that u met a South African person ! Anyone I know ? Ha ha ha ! So u have an idea what I may sound like









Keri, I hope u r feeling less angry. Not that I blame you. Life can be so frustrating.

Can my head go on vacation with yours ? I would love to find the off switch to my brain right now too ! Oh and btw, I'd gladly go shopping for 4 hours with you for lipstick. Feeling very "poor me, I have no friends" at the moment. Not entirely true.

You're stuck in angry, I'm stuck in ...... alone. How pathetic.

Mish, you're good. Lord of the rings. That is so not my kind of movie.

Keri, please fly down here and check on me ! I am feeling a bit lost and no-where. DH doesn't kow what to say, although he does try. DS is getting her life together and finding her feet. So that means I need to get on with life. Stick a smile on my face and carry on.
Pretend I'm normal ! (I love that line ! Ha ha ).

Hey Mish, I hope the boys are all better.
I had a giggle about your query. Lucky u didn't phone the doc. At least you can laugh about it.

Jamie is good. Although he is still clingy, he is just fine. He had his first haircut a few days ago. I can't remember if I told u. He looks really cute. Even more cheeky now !
Tayga is doing ... ok at school. Much better than last year, but not 100%. At least he isn't hating school.
We were accepted to a place that has a team of doctors available that check-out kids with possible ADHD, ADD, Autism, depression etc. To get accepted is HUGE because there is such a demand. Especially becasue all the services, assessments, treatments etc are for free (it's government run).
Tayga's psycologist begged and begged and make the case that there is so much she can do and that it'll be better if he has a team of doctors check him out blah blah blah. Lucky for him, they agreed.
We go for our first appoinmten/assessment of several on thursday. Hopefully once we are finished, we know what's wrong (if anything) and get it sorted out and live happily ever after.

My sister and her fam move out on wednesday. YAY !! I think she is counting the days as much as I am. Not to sound mean.

Got to go

Will chat soon
Tan


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## Mammax4

Well, I took Will to the hospital tonight, he was out of sorts (read REALLY cranky) and had complained of his ear hurting. It turns out that not one, but both of his ears are infected. The dr. actually gave him some tylenol w/ codeine while we were there. That said volumes to me. It will help him not cough so much through the night too, as codeine is a cough suppressant.

Of course I would not want you to come to my germ infested home! I would hope we will be on the other side of that by the end of next week. Then you could come, after your 3 weeks straight of work. Tan, would you like to come too? You have had how many weeks of extra family in your home? That is definately reason for a holiday.

My parent's applied for their passports in December...still haven't received them yet. My Dad is changing jobs (not companies, just clients) and is being held up by his no passport issue. He is supposed to be working out of Norway. He will work 2 weeks and be off for 4 weeks. Now that is my kind of work schedule.

With all the adoption choices, what are your realistic choices? Is that a reasonable question? Are there some options that are better than others? More opportunity? More agreeable terms? (open/closed adoption)

I don't think your consideration comes across as racist at all. And it isn't because I know you either. You are being protective of your child before he/she is in your arms. I'm sure it would be different if you were in a bigger city. I don't imagine it would be easy to be the only child of a different ethnic background in the city that you grew up in.

I can understand the 'at the door' hesitance that your DH is having. A few years ago, my DH was laid off. It went on for about 9 months. I was going crazy with worry about what would happen, how we would manage financially etc. We started to look at another town on the island, there was work there for DH. We went house hunting and DH interviewed with a company a couple of times. When it came down to it, I couldn't go. And I was the one pushing to get a direction for us. DH was happy to wait and was confident that he would be called back to work. Theory is different than reality. You play games in your head that cause so many more questions for you when you are faced with the reality. I hope getting the information helps ease his mind a little. I understand the whole microscope thing... been there...doing that. It is a little overwhelming when you first start.

Your DH is really a 'typical boy'. I went to a seminar called 'Boy Smarts'. It was about the differences between boys and girls, learning styles in particular. We set our classrooms up to fit the 'typical' girl. That is the opposite of the environment for a 'typical' boy to learn in. One of the things the speaker mentioned was that boys need to multi task. If you want to have a conversation with your son, you need to go for a walk or drive. They do better in a multi stimulus environment. They really can do their homework while listening to loud music in their room. Your DH seems to like to talk when you go on drives. Or is it that you are together without the distractions of phone, tv, housework etc.?

Is it the state of Limbo that is creating/adding to the anger? I don't do well being in limbo. I need a direction, not mamby pamby. It is the control freak in me I suppose. You are in a holding pattern for surgery that you don't want to have that is scheduled for too far away that doesn't guarentee the end result that you want. I can see the potential for anger in that. It's a bit like 'piss or get off the pot'. (crude, sorry) Get it done or forget it!

You want to have a child. Biological or adopted. Right now you have to wait and can't progress in either direction. Waiting SUCKS!!!

I suppose I am thankful that I did not suffer from painful cycles due to endometriosis. I had flow issues, but not pain. I was surprised to hear that I had it truthfully.

Perpetual headache....stress perhaps? See, you do need a weekend away. I would be up for a bunch of shopping and lunch out. Maybe a massage thrown in for good measure. Tan, need a head holiday? Come on over!! The kids have provided a clear calendar for our social activities that we had planned. I need a social outlet. Will is on meds now, so he'll be better soon. The other boys are better. Germs dissipating...social need rising... I couldn't think of a better way to spend shopping time than with the two of you.

We watched HP 3. BIL hadn't seen it yet, only the first 2. I think a little Lord may be in order tomorrow. Although, I should really be finishing up Chris' curtains, not watching TV.

I used to work beside a man from South Africa. He had the most amazing accent. I must admit to having a bit of a fancy for accents. (I LOve them) I may just have to make a conference call so that I can talk to the both of you at once! Auditory therapy. That's a good excuse isn't it?








Tan







When you have some time hun.

Yeah!!! You did. I am glad to see you back. Looking forward to Wed. and a little more 'normal' for your household. First haircut, wow...it is amazing how it makes them look like bigger kids when that happens isn't it? Are there Tayga struggles at home again? It is good that he still likes school. That is a huge step. I hope the appointments go well. It will be good to have a definitive - one way or the other. Bonus that the thorough check over for Tayga is not costing you out of pocket. I don't know how the medical system works there, but here we pay a monthly premium and most services are covered. Not chiropractics or elective things, but specialists and their treatments are.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

We're all back, something is right with the world!

Tan, I'm sorry you are feeling lonesome. Maybe getting back to your normal routine will help, you will schedule in more friend time? And you and your sister can socialize, instead of cohabitate?

I'm feeling that way a bit too. Recently 2 of my friends from out of state emailed just to stay in touch. I did mention life had been a little weighty, but didn't go into detail----radio silence. No response. Damn it. It sucks to find out my friends are chickens, that they can't say 'hey, hang in there'.

Goal for next month: get passport. Just in case we decide to hold an emergency shopping/coffee/tea/wine/whine intervention.

Oh, Mich, give Will a hug from me. I occasionally get an ear infection, and they are a cruel little condition, no child should have to suffer through them. Good for the doctor, perscribing codeine. Hope it helps to ease Will's discomfort.

Tan, that is good news about the specialty clinic. Good for Tayga's psychologist for going to bat for him! Hopefully they can either figure out if something is off kilter, or put your fears to rest. Thursday, that's awesome. No pesky waiting.

And yes, part of my anger and frustration stems from being stuck in a holding pattern for 5 more months. Whoa, not thinking about that today. Started to feel the anger well up.

Mich, your story is exactly on point. It's amazing how I thought I knew what I would and would not do, until I am actually in the imagined position. It's a good life lesson, do not judge until you inhabit the shoes. I was wrong about myself, in so many big ways.

Tomorrow starts the 3 straight weeks. DH and I did massive shopping yesterday, to prepare for the classes. Snacks, soda, bottled water, supplies for the Saturday night barbecues, nametags, certificates....I'm getting a little excited. We have fun with all the people.

I started on your orange bracelets lastnight! They are really flashy, I almost want one myself. Fire agate, that's what the giraffe-y orange stones are.

Crazy woman, checking out. There is a lot on the agenda for today, and I want to go to bed early to compensate for the time change!

Take care, friends.

Keri


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## Mammax4

Not only do we not know how it will be until we are in the situation, but desperation does increase that tenfold. For me it did.

1) Laprascopic Surgery to see if a tubal reanastamosis was possible
2) Tubal Reanastamosis - abdominal surgery w/ 4" wide incision.
3) HSG - the first nasty one
4) Laprascopic Tubal Insufflation - to see what was causing the blockage
5) 2nd Tubal Reanastamosis - again, abdominal surgery w/ 4'wide incision.
6) HSG - the second no problem one

All that PLus $10,000. If you would have asked me prior to my insane desire for a 3rd child, I would have told you that you were off your rocker. Never in a million years would I have expected to put my body through all that never mind spend all that money. Those percentages played havoc on my brain. I don't know if I would have stopped at that if it hadn't worked. My 2nd gyne (my first favorite) was confident that the reversal would work - I asked him if he thought it would be better to use A.R.T.. I was ready to be signed up for IVF if that is what would have made it all possible.

Sad how we find out who our *real* friends are - when we really need one, and they aren't there. It's easy to be a friend when it is all sunshine and roses. To step up when needed requires effort and selflessness. Happy we can share that here.

Will is feeling better today. His attitude is much better. He still doesn't have his normal appetite, but it's getting better.

I hope you have put aside some relax time for today, with the lack of time off for the next 3 weeks, you will need it. I'm glad you enjoy the weekend classes, that makes all the difference. A few years ago, I was teaching Doula workshops. That was a blast. It was a hurry up and get the week over, so I can teach this class. A good way to see the gentler, more nurturing side of humanity.

I was thinking I will apply for a passport too. Just in case. Tan, do you have one?

Gotta run - laundry is calling.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Oh. It's morning. Stupid Daylight Savings Time. Dumb old Ben Franklin. I need more sleep!

Mich, of course you would know about the slippery slope! So here is the question....was there any point in your saga where you were overwhelmed and confused? Or where you weren't?

And I guess it's not really the same pattern of thinking, because I have this massive underlying fear that if we go the next step, it will have the same results. Can you imagine me after ANOTHER m/c?

Which is why I want to have adoption proceedings under way. So if we have that big biological door slam shut, we can still see some light coming from somewhere else.

I don't know woman, you are a bit crazy! That list of procedures....eeeek. But that list of procedures=Will. Awesome.

Sorry I am babbling. The coffee isn't even working.

Orange bracelets are done! Any requests? I'm starting little stacks for both of you. Is there a gap in your jewelry wardrobes? A particular outfit that needs a beady accessory? Earrings? Oh, I do have enough orange left to do earrings for both of you---post, or hook?

I took a brief nap on Saturday (DH was in the bedroom 3 times, he is lucky he didn't meet his demise) and napped for 2 hours yesterday. That is so not normal for me! But it was nice to rest and relax before the craziness. Lots and lots to do today.

Tan, I want to see pictures of your cheeky boys! Did you save a lock of Jamie's hair?

Oh, where are our heads going on vacation this week? How about some random beach, in a hammock in the shade, warm sea breeze, bucket of Coronas...join me there, I'll be waiting!


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## Mammax4

Hmmm....overwhelmed and confused...... I don't think so. I was desperately sad when the first reversal didn't work. That gyne told me our only option would be IVF. That wasn't something that I felt I wanted to do, but started to research. I actually did a presentation on A.R.T. at a Doula Day workshop. I like to research things from all angles possible. It is the OCD/control freak parts of me...

I think having DH being so supportive (willing) to let me have my process, it greatly reduced the potential for negative stuff. I think I had more anger than anything else. Anger that was directed at the first gyne.

I was angry that it took so long to even see him, never mind how long the wait for surgery was. It was probably 2 years with that process only to have it not work. Then to hear from the RE's office that the 1st shouldn't have even done it because he didn't do enough of them to be current.!!! <getting mad about that even now!> My gyne that just did my 'h' actually made a comment about things should be left to those that do alot of them. If we would have seen the RE first, we could have been pg in about 3 months - instead it was 3 years. I suppose that is how it was supposed to work for us though. If we would have been pg sooner, it wouldn't have resulted in Will.

I actually stumbled upon the 2nd RE by accident. He is part of the Fertility Clinic at UBC. I had called around to some clinics in Vancouver and had been told of another procedure that might help. I can't remember what the procedure was called, but it wasn't something that would have helped my situation. I spoke to the nurse in the 2nd RE's office, she was amazing. She even let me schedule an appointment before having the Dr referal.

Anyway, off subject here ~ I can blab forever!

I think the feeling of being overwhelmed and confused would have come if we wouldn't have gotten pg with Will. I would have been faced with the 'how far is too far?'. Monetarily, physically, emotionally... Thankfully, I didn't have to deal with that. I do understand how easy it is to get wrapped up in the process. That hope of just one more thing/time/procedure is a hard thing to give up. I don't know if I would have had the strength to say enough is enough, time to stop. I am proud of my sister, they have decided only one more try. Even though they have more eggs than will be used in one more try. For me, that would be beyond difficult. (my DH refers to me as relentless when I get something in my head - not in a bad way, but just because of my intensity.)

One thing that you could use as a buffer for your DH in the adoption process is that you can change your mind. If you don't want to go that route anymore, you can halt the whole process. (at least up here) Maybe if you put it to him the way you have here, he might understand exactly what it means to you. It would be the 'light'.

I am getting carried away again, funny how the blood pressure can still rise when thinking about the whole process again. The all mighty dollar speaks louder than the hypocratic oath for some I suppose.

Off to make dinner now...spaggetti!

Oh yeah, before I forget...our rescheduled social worker meeting is for this Thursday at 5pm.










Mich


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## lolalapcat

Okay, Tan's sister's family is moving tomorrow, Mich's social worker appt. is Thursday, Tayga's appointment is Thursday. My appt. with the dermatologist is Monday. Busy busy, we are.

Mich, it helps to hear you talk about your Saga. There are so many elements to which I can relate.

I'd like to think this newest specialist isn't motivated by money, being affiliated with a church and all. The t/v u/s's cost substantially less at the new clinic, and they take more time measuring 'things'. So that gives me a clue as to motivation.

And if only I had found this place last year, I would not be so frustrated with the repetition in procedures. Like you---wrong doctor first. But everything for a reason, right? You got Will. We will see what we get. Sometime down the road, I guess.

I was wondering about your sister, wondering when they were going to ttc again. I would have pretty hefty issues with having eggs 'left over', it would also complicate my brain.

But I think I am farther into this world of Frankensurgery because we can get pregnant. If we spent 2 1/2 years trying to get pregnant, and had surgeries and such, and had never been...maybe I would be willing to recognize the futility. I don't know, never been in those shoes. But it tortures me a bit to think of giving up....because we can get pregnant. For so many people, that is the Holy Grail.

I made it very clear to DH that looking into adoption didn't mean it was set in stone, it was just to get the ball rolling in case we need it farther down the road. (I hate hate hate talking about babies like a commodity.)

I am surprised at his resistance. In the past he has been so much more open to the idea of adoption. Once again, you never know until you are there. It is an unwelcome epiphany.

In the meanwhile, I have a million little things to do. We are in good shape for the classes, especially for us! Somehow we are well prepared. Not normal. So it is just little things to tackle now.

DH is leaving for Texas right about now. My Dad pointed out that maybe DH was whining about the trip so as to downplay his own good fortune. Wow, that thought never even crossed my mind. Perhaps that is what was going on.

On a different note, I bought 2 new houseplants a couple of weeks ago, and they are still alive! I didn't like the message all the dead houseplants were sending. Must focus outward more to keep life in balance.

Mich, how has the rest of your psycho schedule been going? How are the boys?

Orange earrings, yes or no? Hook or post?


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## Mammax4

The saga... indeed that is what it was. I don't regret one bit of anything that I did. In some ways it would have been better to skip the first dr., but then it would mean that there would be no Will. It would have been someone else. I have a whole theory about one time for one baby, so with that in mind, we were supposed to have Will. He was who we were supposed to have, and that was his time to come ~ we needed the process to get us to that time.

I'm not sure what my sis and her dh are going to do with the 'left over eggs' (I guess they are really embryos, having been fertilized already) There was some minor discussion about donating any remaining embryos to infertile couples, but I don't know if it was more than theoretical. I don't know if I could do that either. Not for me to consider, it is not my situation. Does make my head a little dizzy with all the other things she has to think about. It makes my journey a cake walk.

I can appreciate your process for all the...if we just.... it sounds very familiar. It is a hard thing to consider - not continuing what ever it takes to get you to the end point. I feel for you my sister!

As you say, you never know until you're there. Perhaps your DH is concerned that starting the one process will eliminate the other? Has he spoken about how far he wants to go? Does he know this is your one more time? or do you see the potential for another try if needed?

Orange earrings? Who likes orange?? What a crazy thought, orange earrings... Actually, I haven't decorated my ears since my D&C surgery. I had to take them out and never put them back in. I should! I could use a little decoration. Either would be lovely. Thank you.

Psycho schedule not so psycho... the boys getting sick really helped put a stop on that. No friends for dinner. I cancelled one dr. appointment, turns out my old dr. would not have given me my cortisone shot, merely a prescription to bring to another appointment. No thanks. So, we may have friends over for dinner this weekend. Aside from that, we have a dentist appointment and I have one dr. appointment and we have the Japanese students coming Mar. 23-27. That's it. Not so crazy anymore.

Maybe your DH was feeling guilty about having to go. Was a bit happy for the chance to visit friends, but didn't feel good about leaving you all by yourself when you have so much work to do.

How does all this specialist stuff work for you? I know that is one thing that seems expensive there (US) is medical attention. If we go down, we always buy travel insurance, even if it is a shopping trip. Is it really that bad, or are we getting bad info from the insurance companies.

Tan, where are you? I'm sure it is crazy getting your sister and family moved. Would you please say hello when you get a chance? Miss you and are wanting to hear how you are doing.

Enough blabbing from me...









Mich









I went for a walk last night AND went to bed early. I read until 11:15pm though. So, off I go again before I turn into a pumpkin. Must get more sleep, DH is getting the boys cold...I don't want a turn!


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## Tan II

Hello, hello, hello !!!!!!

I'm BACK and they're moved OUT ! Yay !! The house feels blissfully quiet and calm. Breath out.

The past few days have been revolting. I seem to be sinking lower and lower. I feel like I am in quick sand and can't get out and am getting sucked in.
I am hoping now that everything is coming together, my sister moving out and Tayga's appointment tomorrow. I will start to feel better.

I have been having dark moods and thoughts. DH thinks I am a lunatic from hell. I think I have been.

Keri I will email some pics. Got to find the cheekiest ones !!

Mish I hope DH is feeling better and doesn't get a bad cold. DON'T get sick !

Btw, I do have a passport !! *cheeky grin* !

Going to have a hot shower and jump into bed with a book and relax. I feel emotionally wiped.

Tan







:


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## lolalapcat

Tan, I'm so sorry you are in a dark place. Take my hand, I'll do my honest best to keep you from sinking.

Have you started taking the antidepressants, or did you still need to jump through some medical hoops to get them?

I wonder how much of it is the chaos from having other people in your house, Jamie and Tayga upset, no chance for you to engage in quiet time. You may be right, get the appointment out of the way, then settle back into a calm routine with your family.

What is in your head, Tan? Anything you would like to air out?

I hope the hot shower and reading and some rest helped.

Mich, I'm sorry to hear your DH may be catching the bug, your family deserves a break.

My throat was sore when I woke up this morning, so I'll take some vitamins and herbs here in a bit, just in case. Really don't want to be sick for the next couple of weeks!

It was a lovely night of rest, with DH gone. I had forgotten what a pleasure it is to sleep diagonally! The whole bed, mine mine mine. Something tells me DH is thinking the same thing!

Travel insurance? I have heard of taking out insurance when someone is buying an expensive, nonrefundable sort of trip, I guess. What exactly are you meaning? Temporary health insurance, since you wouldn't have any coverage when you leave Canada?

Medical care can certainly be expensive. We didn't have health insurance for the longest time, which is a gamble since you pay full cost out of pocket. I paid for all of the diagnostic testing on my thyroid condition out of pocket. Lot of money, but didn't cripple me financially.

Now we have fantastic health insurance, DH pays around $350 a month toward our policy. Part of the cost is covered by the company he works for. That's health, dental and vision. We meet a $500 deductible each year, which is money out of pocket. Then everything is covered. The deductible is met by our co-pays---we go to a regular doctor, pay $20, that goes toward the deductible. Specialist, $35. With the hospitalization, it was some money toward the hospital, some to the doctor, some to the anasthesiologist, so it adds up to maybe a couple hundred dollars out of pocket.

I just saw a new community health clinic has opened in Lincoln, where we used to live. That's been a push in the US, to build more walk-in clinics that are federally subsidized. Care is available on a sliding fee scale. Our county health departments do that too, free 'well baby' check ups, immunizations, minor type of care. That certainly helps the uninsured people.

Wow. That is a lot of boring information. I hope it demystifies the system here a bit.

It took me a long time to put my earrings back in after the D&C also. I guess maybe it reminded me too much of why I had them out...

Here's something dumb: The day I found out about baby #3, I lost a hubcap on the way to the appointment. In the past, I would have called a salvage yard, found a used hubcap and been done. But I can't seem to ever make the call, so I am driving around without the stupid hubcap. It seems like such a trivial thing to spend time and money on, I guess. I just think of what else we lost that day.

Sigh. I am tired. Still not accustomed to the time change (whine, whine). And I stayed up too late last night, watching a show on public television--it started out with footage from Elvis Presley concerts, then went into a documentary about rockabilly music. Who knew I was a rockabilly fan? I just didn't quite know who fit in that category. It was a fun show, now I want to get some new old music for my collection!








Mich, stay healthy! Tan, keep swimming, I'm right next to you in a life raft, hanging on.....


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## Mammax4

Tan...YEAH!!! you're back!!! I hope Tayga's appointment went well.

Have you exhaled a little now that your space is your own again? I hope the return to 'normal' household stuff can allow you some 'you time'. You certainly deserve a little holiday/rest/house help....

Maybe you just missed us!







It is amazing how negative can take over when you don't have the chance to off load some of it on a regular basis. We are here if/when you want to (can) start to unload.

It is strange how things are tied together. Earrings, hubcaps... I bought a beautiful winter jacket (maternity) from a woman last summer. I told her that I would contact her when I was done with it, incase she wanted to get it back. I didn't put anything about the m/c in my email - what do you say??- and of course, she asked....what did you have? A BOY? She is a boy Mom too, with 4 sons and me likely to have a 4th myself we had some good chats about that. I did email her about the m/c then and she expressed sadness. I hate that I have that bag of clothes sitting in my closet. I don't want it there anymore, but I can't seem to get rid of it either. I really wanted to wear them. I am not stuck in that mode, but can't seem to motivate myself to unload them.

It is kind of like the outfit that you used to wear, but it doesn't fit anymore. You can't take it out of your closet, but you know darn well you will never wear it again. A bag full of anchors. Funny how *stuff* can be like that.

I am 1/2 done Chris' curtains for his room. I will probably finish them up on Friday. We will be too busy with the Resource social worker tomorrow. Yikes. I think that is why I am up at this late time of night. Nerves and excitement. I think I have managed to clear my needed space for July. Hopefully that will be soon enough for them. I don't think I can manage any sooner. I bought a toddler bed last night. It is wooden and very cute. A gf gave me a pooh bear toodler bed, but I don't like the side rails it has. I am going to keep it, just incase we need a second one.

I read in the newspaper today that a mother is being charged with attempted murder. She was on a supervised visit with her very young baby and she stabbed the baby. I can't remember for sure, but I think the baby is about 7 mos old. Disgusting. The baby was not seriously injured and I think went back to the foster home today. All I could think about, after feeling sad for the baby of course, was 'oh my'. A foster child...

On that note, off I go. Need sleep. Continuing to fight the good fight, no cold here. Must be well rested for the meeting tomorrow.

Have a good day. Keri, I hope you had another great sleep, not long until you have to share the bed again. Tan, I hope you are finding your mood a little lighter today my friend.








Mich.


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## lolalapcat

I second that, I'm wondering how Tayga's appointment went. Whenever you get time, Tan, I can picture you decompressing for a while!








just in case you were in need of one.

Here, Mich, I'm passing them out...









Yeah, I still have little reminders around the house. Progesterone in the refrigerator. Estrogen patches in the towel cupboard. The stupid before-you-get-pregnant books, and while-you-are-pregnant book.

But a bag of maternity clothes? Ouch. And the return of the coat, extra big ouch. What would you say? Maybe something like 'we wound up not having to use it'. Too little too late, I know. Oh, that smarts.

That almost makes it seem normal, you and me both hanging on to stuff, even after the due dates have passed. Anchors, is that holding us down, or just securing us?

This is weird. Bear with me. I feel that way about my hair. My hair, you ask? Yes. I cut my hair off to donate in 2004. So I have been growing it back to donate again, all through our m/c's. The hormones have made my hair curlier, more like it used to be when I was a teenager. My hair is different than it was before, wilder. It's long enough I could donate it again, but it almost hurts my heart a little to think of doing that. It's like a physical reminder, when I have so few others. How the hell am I ever going to cut my hair again?

And even with the clothing purge that has occurred in the last few months, I do still have one pretty little dress hanging in my basement that I will never fit into again. I cannot get rid of it. It's only one dress!

Certifiable. That's what I am. Certifiably insane. Hellloooo? Need a consultation in here...anybody? Okay, if nobody will certify me, I'll just keep hanging around in here.

Mich, stay healthy, good luck tomorrow with the resource worker!

Tan, keep swimming, girl!

I'm going to be capitally busy for the next few days, so probably won't be able to check in. Yes, I'm going to work early for the next 3 days, like in the morning! And they will be long days. So I'll try to check in Sunday pm, or Monday am. I'll miss you!


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## Mammax4

Well, we did it. Our first meeting with the resource social worker is officially under our belts. Now we only have another 2 or 3 left to go. He would like us to make ourselves available yesterday. He told us that there were 12 children needing placement on Thursday and Friday last week....yes, I did say twelve, no typo there. Sibling groups and singletons But Holy Crap.

Onward we go... seeing if we can step into that role a little sooner. It will depend on whether or not the governing body will go for that. Interesting meeting tonight though.

I hope you are both well. Good luck with all your extra hours over the next few days Keri. Have fun this weekend. Tan, I hope you are okay. Hope to hear from you soon. I will be lonely all by myself here....

Mich


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## Tan II

Hi Mish & Keri

Thanks for the hugs. Much needed and appreciated.

Well, Tayga's appointment went well. It is the first of 4 assessments. Hopefully after all 4 we have an idea of what is going on, or what the problem is. I feel much better knowing that we're going down every avenue. He's a good kid, I know that. THat is what probably frustrates me.

I am also feeling lighter. My sister having moved out has made a huge difference. I didn't realise how stressful it was having a houseful of people. As much as I love them, it's hard.

I think once Tayga is sorted I will feel even better.

I also need some time-out for myself. Haven't had much of that in a looooong time.

Moan, moan, moan. I promise I'll stop !

Keri, how are you feeling ? I hope work wasn't to hetic for you. That it possibly was a good distraction.
How is your Mom ?

Mish, things are sounding exciting. How are you feeling about it ? How are DH and the boys about it ?

Tomorrow is a busy day. Going to the dentist (yoohoo), then for a wax (needed ! hairy legs - sorry too much info !). The in the afternoon I am going to attempt to have some "me" time. I plan to go to the bead shop - FINALLY !! Dh said he'll look after the boys, and I can do my own thing. (He is great, but he also wants to play golf on sunday !).
Sat night we are going out for dinner with my sister.

Got to start planning and making stuff. It's passover coming up. I am having dinner one of the nights. What was meant to be a small get-together, has now turned into a bigger dinner than planned !! Oh well, if you're cooking for 15 or cooking for 40 it doesn't really make a difference !

Just seen the time ! How does it get so late so quickly ? Going to shower and get some zzZ's !

Have a great weekend !
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hmmm. I thought I posted, but didn't. Watch out, in case the incompetence is contagious!

I missed you, that was too long to go without checking in!

Tan, keep us posted on Tayga's appointments. How was your dentist visit and bead shopping?

Mich, I am glad the visit with the resource worker went well. Twelve. I want to shake those ungrateful parents by the shoulders. Are you trying to be ready for foster kids before fall, now?

I'm about to get ready for the dermatologist appt. Now I am nervous. I guess I have been too busy to dwell on it, and it's here. First step, new journey.

The weekend class was really really good. Very fun, nice, interesting people. I didn't sleep well through the weekend, so am very tired, taking rash advantage of having the appt today.

Fun Keri was back. I laughed and smiled a lot. It seemed strange, but good. It's odd, being aware of acting happy.

Tan, thanks for asking about my Mom. She is the same, which means continually getting a little worse. She didn't come in to work at all over the weekend, which really bothered me. She has always been a fixture at these classes, long before I was involved. Her friend told me she feels conspicuous, now that she is struggling to walk with a cane. I think I have convinced her that we need her around, even just to answer questions, so she may join us next weekend.

Must go scour my person. Exfoliate, moisturize, do what people do when they are about to be put under a microscope. Mich, I hope your family is well again! Tan, I hope you have gotten some 'me' time!


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## Mammax4

It's not called incompetence, it's called your plate runneth over. Too much work, not enough MDC. (aka-home)

We are being fast tracked it seems. We have gone from doing respite/relief care for now, to could you start in the summer and now... how about today?! I had to speak to my governing body to see if that would fly, and it seems it will - with some temporary limitations. Yikes! I don't know if the Ministry will want to start before summer, when my downsizing starts, but it sure seems that they are willing to overlook the busy schedule for now.

How did your dermatologist appointment go? Did you manage alright with a naked face?

Glad to hear the weekend class went so well. Were you too busy in your work brain to sleep, or was it something else? It is good to hear that you were the old fun Keri. Sad that being happy was something that you were so cognizent of...sad that it would stand out like that.

I managed to escape the germs, so far. Everyone else in the house was infected.

SIL called this weekend. She wants to come out on the 29th for 2 weeks. <sigh>

We finally had some social company this weekend. They dared to enter our germacile. It was nice to be social, it was the 3rd weekend attempt.

Will and I fixed up the 'foster' bed on Saturday. We put the toddler bed in his room, he had bad attitude about it for a few minutes and then was pulling all kinds of little blankets out of the cupboard to fix up the bed. It was very cute. I think he is quite excited. He is talking about his foster sisters/brothers quite frequently lately.

Tan, I am glad to hear you are feeling a little lighter. Having your space back is nice I bet. Did you make it to the bead shop? Must be careful when you are in there, it is sure easy to get carried away. I know I did...and I still haven't made anything yet! When do you have your other assessments? How is Jamie?









Mich


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## lolalapcat

Tan? You okay? Kinda thought you would be around a bit more, with your sister moving out. Just want you to know that I miss you when you aren't around.

Fun Keri. It's almost like having a split personality, that I can 'turn it on' like that. DH has actually suggested we quit this whole process, because he wants me back. I feel so guilty, but at the same time so justified in where I am at emotionally. I want to quit, but I don't.

Can I get her back? Do I want to?

Enough of that. I don't have time to self analyze!

I don't sleep well when I have to get up early. Sleeping through alarms is a skill of mine, and when I HAVE to get up, my brain goes on watch. I do that for airline flights, too.

Skin Doc went ahead with curette/electrodessication on the spots. That's scraping and burning. It was fabulous. I'd go into detail, but like you both too much!

Doc felt that with the size of the spots, this treatment would be very effective. He could tell by the feel when he had all the cancer gone--I love experts! Said this had about a 98% success rate on spots of this size. Um, okay. I'll take that. Follow up appt in June, and a lifetime of monitoring. Okay. I can do it.

I actually did okay with scant makeup on, perhaps I've been wearing too much. Except in the corners of my eyes, they get really bruisy looking when I'm tired, can't cover too much there. Hand me the trowel!

And I proceeded to shop after the appointment, even with the bloody bandage on my nose. Hang it, this is life. I'm not going to hide. And now I have the scabby nose for our class that is coming up. I'm used to being the cute little surprise, the men we work with flirt a lot. Now I'm not quite so cute, it's a good adjustment for me. Competence. They also like me for that. And my incredible sense of humor, which apparently isn't gone forever!

Is there no part of my life I can leave unexamined? Sigh. It was so nice to be un self aware. It was so nice to have nothing of which to be aware.

Bought more beads, of course! Garnet and labradorite chips. And some of the filament cord for the floaty, invisible necklaces. Illusion necklaces, is that what they are called?

Poor Will, going through growing pains! It's such an adult concept---the thing you want so badly may pain you a bit when you get it. It is good he regained his excitement about the foster sibs.

It is always interesting, how desperate need can cut through bureaucracy. But I'm sure part of it is, the people you are working with can see what a wonderful placement you would be.

You say Ministry, I think of Harry Potter!

Micheline, I hereby demand you make some jewelry, before your schedule gets even busier! Both feet, hold your nose and jump! Proceed with fun! Tan, you too! Seek some fun, and tackle it when you see it!

Oh, before the SIL visit, so you can indulge in some distraction while she is there....

Gotta run, late as usual.


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## Tan II

Hi Gals

Here I am. *Visual pic - me dragging myself around the house*

I have been meaning to spend more time chatting, but it's hard when you don't feel "chatty".
Everything is hard to do and too much effort. I feel tired, stressed, angry, irritated. I'm not very happy with myself at the moment.

Today is our (mine and DH) meeting for Tayga. This is where they'll get our perspective on things. Keri, I suppose I feel like you, where I don't want to go through all the meetings and procedures. I just want a solution - NOW.

Tayga had a day off school yesterday. THe teachers had planning or training or something to do.He was great. He played Lego for hours and hours.
THis morning we had an argument for a change. This really stresses me so much. He wanted to take his Lego to school because apparently all the boys are doing that and trading. I told him I don't want him to trade his stuff. And so we go into battle......
We get to school and there all the boys congregate with their Lego. I felt so bad for Tayga. Like I'm the evil mother. I thought back to my childhood where trading was part of being a kid - right ?
He had his stuff with him, so I said to him "I just want to make it clear that there is no crying once you've traded and you can't get your thing back". He said ok, and very excitedly walked off to join the boys to show his pieces of Lego, and "trade".

That's when I left thinking "I'm such a bitch".

Where do u draw the line and say "U can't trade because I'm not spending $ for you to trade" and "be a boy, integrate yourself in your new school. do what they all do, have FUN"

Keri the skin doc sounds like it went ok. More monitoring to add though.

Isn't it funny how we "hide" behind our make-up, and feel 'naked' without it. I'm the same.

I'm glad to hear you still have your sense of humour !

Mish, how exciting that you are getting the foster bed ready. THe boys must be thrilled. Is it not a strange feeling though ?

I went to what I thought was the right bead shop on the weekend. Nope, it wasn't. They didn't have what we want. Sorry girls. I'm holding us up. I will keep looking.
DH had a sore back, so I nearly didn't go. Then I thought "you know what, this is my afternoon of free time". So I went !
It was the day before the Australian Grand Prix. I could hear the cars from where I had parked my car !

Jamie is well. Copying things Tayga does, which is cheeky and cute to watch ! He has started pulling himself up. Hopefully he'll start walking soon. (another stress that he isn't). Although the doc said that he is still within a normal ranged not to be walking. Top end, but normal.

He's having his lunchtime sleep. I'm going to eat lunch and relax - well try to !

Chat soon
Tan


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## Barcino

Thinking about you







Birthdays and anniversaries are so so hard







HUGS!


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## Mammax4

Oh Tan...I feel your pain. We too have gone through the same type of thing. It is hard to think that some savy kid will take advantage of your sweet guy. The complication of 'trade-backs' or 'not for keeps trades'. There are so many levels to this, none of which are bitch my friend. Not wanting Tayga to participate in something that may (likely) lead to him being sad is protective, not bitchy. It is hard to balance the learning things the hard way with the protecting them. It doesn't end. The 'lego' just gets bigger. (sorry)

How old is Jamie? Our boys were all late walkers. Our fastest was 13 months, slowest was 15 or 16 months. Is that close to Jamie's range?? There's those charts again. <sigh>

Have you been to see your Doctor yet? Is an antidepressant in the works for you yet?

You are right Tan, it is a bit of a weird thing. Unfortunately, it is an ever increasing need. I will probably need some unloading when the child has to go back home again.

I asked my sister to send me some of Will's old clothes, so I could have some on hand. (apparently 50% of the children that come into foster care will come with only what is on their body when they were taken from their home) She was crabby tonight when I was talking to her about it. She asked if I wanted her to send it all back. I had thought of that, as she is a year or more away from needing it. I don't need all that stuff though, just an assortment of sizes and items. I said it might be easier for her to send it all back, then I can go through it and use what I need. It could have been stress- her Dh is at the hospital getting IV antibiotics. He had an ingrown hair that got bad and he needs 5 days of IV antibiotics.

Hmmm...if DH says he wants the old Keri back and is talking about quitting the process, does that mean he is thinking more seriously about the adoption potential? Or am I taking info out of sequence?

It is an interesting process, letting someone see the whole part of your life so far. Having an unbiased person look in all the dark corners and verbalize to you what they are seeing is ... odd.

They are fast tracking us, for sure. The need is huge, and it doesn't show signs of slowing down. We are meeting with the RSW again on Thursday. He is getting a temporary 60 day authorization, so that we could take children on before our homestudy is complete. All of our paperwork will be in by Friday - Dr's report still not done. Other than that, he has to put a summary of us together and present it to the team. The 'team' is aware of us and is okay with the current status here. We will be getting a call for respite/relief for April and then full on for May.

Fun...must schedule that in. Can it be in pencil? I know, I know, I need to get down to business with all the supplies I have. We have the Japanese students arriving this Saturday, they leave on Wednesday. SIL will possibly be here on Thursday... must use permanent marker!!! Time for fun. Hey, I went to bed before 9pm last night. I am at least making time for more sleep! That's gotta count for something? doesn't it??

You think Harry Potter because I say Ministry...I think Muggles. No magic involved there. (I can't wait for the book to come out in July, we are already deciding who gets to read first and next...)

Must go watch House. Need my fix of sarcastic rude male.










Mich


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## lolalapcat

Tan









Yeah, I'm with Mich....have you gotten that prescription for antidepressants? You sound pretty down, and I know that you have tried to be more up. It seems like a kick-start is in order.

It's good that you took some me-time shopping, though---it sounds kind of exciting, being so close to the Australian Grand Prix! My Dad and brother are racing junkies, and my Dad used to build and race stock cars. I'll tell them what you just told me!

Don't worry about the beads, whenever you get them you get them. All in good time.

My Mom gets me Good Housekeeping magazine, and the new one has a big article on finding the calm in your life, creating some peace. I have taken it to heart, and am going to construct a more peaceful existence. Suggestions would be helpful!

Did you know people feel happier, less stressed, when there are fresh flowers in the house? Must buy flowers. Easy. Tan, Mich, go buy flowers, stat!

I don't remember trading anything when I was a kid, nor do I recall my brother trading. So it seems a bit odd to me. But if Tayga isn't super-attached to his toys, that means he is not a packrat, like my brother and I were! We couldn't part with anything. So it seems kinda healthy, as far as his view on possessions. It could be a chance to teach him about the value of things, so he understands how to make a fair trade.

But my initial reaction was like yours, 'no you can't do that!' It's okay to react one way, and change your mind. Mom's prerogative.

And yes, there is exhaustion from the process. Can we just get to the answer already? You completely get it. I completely get it.

Hang in there.

Mich, I wonder if your sister's reaction to the clothes was a knee-jerk 'she doesn't think I will need them' sort of reaction.

My Mom lent all my baby clothes to my aunt, who never returned them. Mom wanted a few things for sentimental reasons. Oh well. But I think people develop their own sentimental attachment to the baby clothes.

People go into the hospital for the strangest things. DH has gone through something similar, but no IV. I hope your BIL is okay.

Fun. Mich, Tan, schedule it in. I know you are dragging, but do it! A funny movie, playing games, meeting with friends or sister......

I think I am going to reread all the Harry Potters before the last one comes out. Although my current WWII book is a pretty good read....

Waiting for photos of cheeky little boys pulling themselves up on furniture!!!!

My left nostril is one big scab, on top of a bruise. Just so you can picture it. Ick.








you two bring such light to my life! Thanks!


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## Mammax4

We go to the local race track here, not alot anymore, but usually a few times a year. Dan likes to go to the Can-Am Demo Team Challenge- it is followed by Total Destruction. Personally, I prefer the non-demolition type racing myself. I actually was on a pit crew for a local racing team when I was in my late teens. I got all the really disgusting jobs, though I didn't know any better at the time. Transmission fluid is one of the Nastiest smells you could ever have the misfortune of smelling....trust me. Some of the drivers from 'back in the day' are still around, so it has served my boys well. They have been in and driven around in Sportsman Series cars. (that is like expensive stock cars) I rocked that day, let me tell you!

It could be that my sister was having that knee jerk reaction. I told her I needed a 'small exhibit' from the baby clothes museum. Speaking of sentimental attachment.... that is what the baby clothes have been dubbed. It was her that had brought up sending all the clothes back to me. It had crossed my mind, but I don't need all the clothes. I wonder also if it may be another thing to add as an expense if she sends me the clothes. I seriously don't know how many clothes they have that aren't from Will. It could be just another task for her to do and she is not liking that. She does have a full plate.

I am allergic to flowers, I will pass. I do enjoy them in the garden though. My Mom sent me a water feature, I will have to get that set up, it is nice to hear the running water in the background.

The guys are hovering...must get dinner.










Mich

Hey, I forgot...I had fun last weekend....I saw The Last Mimzy last Saturday, it was great! Good message, good movie.


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## Tan II

Hi K & M

I love flowers. Dh often comes home with a bunch for me. He knows that they make me smile ! In fact he came home with a beautiful bunch a few days ago. Sunflowers ! Those are my favourites.

My SIL called me tonight to tell me about a book that is meant to be amazing. It's calle "The secret" by Rhonda Byrnes. Apparently it's life changing. Have u heard of it ? I think it's even been on Oprah. It's also sold out in the big book stores. I'll call around the little ones to see if they have it.

I'm going to my GP tomorrow. I told dh this tonight. He was quiet upset that I am going to get antidepressants. He's worried that I'll get hooked on them. Makes me think that I should try a natural remedy first. Thoughts.
I just hate this feeling. THis dark, heavy, "hate myself", pathetic feeling.
*sigh*

Fun ... We're going to a party on Sat night ! Mish you'll love this party. It's an orange party !!!! My friend loves orange, so everything is going to be orange. From the drink to the food to the clothes we have to wear !! I'm sure it'll be fun. Although I don't know most of her friends. DH and I will have to enjoy our first night out alone in a long time. We're getting a baby sitter, so we've got to make the best of the night !

Mish, Jamie is nearly 18 months. According to the doc he is still in normal range, but the end of notmal. I don't feel I need to panic. He was late to crawl too. He is showing more interest every day. If his crawling is anything to go by, he'll get up and walk quickly. One second he was bum shuffling. The next he was crawling. No in-between stage !!
My children, all or nothing !!

Mish, r u ready for your guests ?

Keri, how's your nose ?

I'm off to shower and get some sleep.

Chat soon.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi!

Transmission fluid, I remember my Dad using that to seal the wood floor in one of his stores....

Tan, you have such a nice husband! We saw fields of sunflowers when we went on our anniversary trip to South Dakota (next state north of here). I've never seen so many sunflowers in one place!

Mich, I am allergic to some flowers, others not so much. Hopefully the gaillardia will come up soon, it's the most prolific cut flower we have planted!

My understanding of the newer generations of antidepressants is that they are less addictive, less side effects....

My brother was on antidepressants for a while, then went off of them. He said they helped him identify his moods a little better, once he was back 'up'. So now he exercises and eats better when he feels himself sliding a bit, and it works for him. But no problems going off of them. One lone example.

Hopefully your doctor will give you some written information that you can take home to share with DH, and you can ask the doctor about that issue.

A color theme party---that is such a great idea! A night out with the husband, that's fabulous! If only I had gotten the orange bracelet to you...

I would tell my friend about the party, but then she would do it----and I look completely jaundiced when wearing orange, I don't own a bit of it! Okay, maybe I'll do it.

Okay, I just searched for the book, and it's the companion to the videos that I watched a few months back! It's about the law of attraction, which is very intriguing. Try youtube, search for 'the secret'. It was in about 8 parts, and was very interesting. I'm glad you reminded me of it, I printed off some info about it that I should dig out.

The commercial for The Last Mimzy have caught my attention, it looks a bit magical. But I can't even remember the last movie we went to...

Thanks for asking about my nose. It is conspicuous. I find myself keeping my head down, and then try to consciously not shield the view from people. It is good for me, since my Mom is feeling conspicuous with her extreme struggle to walk, and is starting to stay at home because of it. Not just the effort, but people looking at her. This is my tiny way of relating.

Splashing lots of water on the scab lastnight reduced it's size. Gross, sorry. I had not realized how swollen the area was, so I think it is going to peel dramatically. The cancer is supposedly gone, so the grossness is worth it.

Tan, I met a baby years ago who just flat out declined to walk until she was almost 2. She was good at crawling, why change? She walked when she was ready. Jamie's on his own schedule, and apparently hasn't consulted with the experts! It will be funny if it happens overnight...

Mich, how are you doing with the pregnant moms who are all around you?

I gotta run. Big work day.


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## Mammax4

I have an unexpected day off tomorrow! Yeah!! If only I didn't have a 9am Dr's appointment... Oh well, it will get my lazy self out of bed and starting my day. It will be better that way, it always seems to be a much longer day when I don't laze about in the morning.

Our meeting went well tonight. There were some examples (situational-not specifics) that he gave of children that have come into care so far this week. Sad. We will be put in the cue now, so respite/relief calls could come any time. Another meeting early next week with him again. We have a couple of things to do to 'tweak' our home to meet the standards. (locking meds storage, locking up the cleaning stuff - it can't just be put up high like we had it for Will)

An orange party sounds like a fantastic idea. Sign me up! I have a few orange things. (not as many as you might think, considering it is my favorite colour) Have a great time!

I will be getting the room organized for the students tomorrow. I have to take some of Will's toys out of there so it's a little neater. I had an email from one family yesterday. I read the Mom's concern and can relate. We are a long way from Japan. It will be interesting to see how things go.

I think they have a much better handle on antidepressants now - dosage, monitoring effectiveness etc. It is not a one size fits all prescription like it used to be. I hope that it helps you find some balance to the heavy darkness you have been feeling lately.

The pregnant moms (there are 3) are okay. Or should I say that I am doing okay with them. There is only one that is looking a bit pregnant right now, so it isn't too bad. I don't know how it will be later, when there are 3 in my face everyday. One told me about hearing the heartbeat today at the dr. It did take my breath away a little. It may well be a L-O-N-G remainder of 07 for me.

My pj's are calling....

Mich


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## Tan II

Hi M & K

A day off, how nice ! I hope you enjoyed it and did fun things.

Glad to hear the meeting went well. I can't believe how quickly it's happening.

The orange party was fun. Although we didn't know many people there. I am friendly with the host, but we mix in different social circles. Most of the people there were either single or newly married. We felt like grandparents ! I'm glad we went. It was nice to get out. I had been debating not going. I wasn't in the mood. I felt bad to let my friend down.

I saw my gp on fri and he gave me antideppresants. I started them then. I suppose there is no shame in admitting that I needed help. I seemed to feel that I had to cope and could do it on my own. The reality is that I can't.

I am having second night Passover dinner. It was meant to be a small evening with a few friends. We are now looking at 16 Adults and 9 kids !!! Nothing I can't deal with ! I've been trying to get organised. Buying the things that I can get now, like matzah, cold drinks, serviettes ... All the stuff that I can get in advance. It should be fun.

Poor Jamie is cutting not 2 but 4 teeth. 2 on the top and 2 on the bottom. Poor thing. He hasn't been too miserable considering.

Going to eat lunch. I'm starving !

Chat soon.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

The weekend classes are over, I am back into some sort of schedule, and I have a day off in a mere 5 days!

Ah, I'm clutching to my routine like Linus to his blanket. Now I want a blankie.

DH and I got home midafternoon yesterday, so I did get a nice nap in with my 3 kitties, and got some laundry done.

What new orange things did you get, Mich? And how was your dr. appt and day off?

Tan....there is no shame in needing help. Look at all of us here--posting here is asking for help, isn't it? Good for you for doing what you needed to do, it's so easy to just keep trying to struggle through on your own. It takes courage to ask for help.









I'm glad you made it to the orange party. Do tell, what was the menu? Please tell me it was orange food and drink!

I want to come to your Passover dinner! It's a great disappointment to me that our church/denomination doesn't do more to acknowledge Passover. Once they did the Passover seder. What will you be serving, is there particular significance to the foods, is this family you will be hosting?

Mich--







sorry you are surrounded by pregnancy. I guess it's character building? Who am I kidding, it's torture, I know. Long year indeed. I would be mixing up lots of cocktails if I were you, but that's my own reward for being tortured.

Ack, all of the men the last 2 weekends, chasing me around with photos of their grandkids!!!! Did they all get together and discuss this plan? It seemed mighty coordinated. It pains me so, I want my Dad to have photos of grandkids in his wallet. And I have to stand there and tell them what pretty/handsome babies they are.

Although I am still eagerly awaiting a photo of a cheeky, teething Jamie! Give him a hug from me.

My Mom did join us for the Saturday night dinner. We had some repeat students in the class, more like family friends, and they fawned over her, which was nice. But every time I turned around she was telling someone else about the family history of ALS. Guess I know what's on her mind.

They leave for Chicago today, appt is Wednesday. She is having cramps in her left hand, which is how the neurological deterioration started in her legs.







:

My new dr. sent a packet of info, results on tests that I haven't studied closely enough, and new info on a controversial condition associated with thyroids that he wants to check into. More temperature taking, 4x daily on certain days. Part of me is grateful he is checking into ME more closely, part of me wonders if he EVER does anything noncontroversial. Confused.

I'll think about that later. I must go to work early today, so we can wrap up a million loose ends before the folks leave today.


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## Mammax4

Blankie....Now you're talkin' my language!!! I L-O-V-E Blankies!!!

Tan, please give Jamie a big hug from me, and tell him that the 'all or nothing' does not need to apply to cutting teeth too. Poor boy. My guys were more than one at a time, but 4 holy cow!!

The day off was good. I did a bit of running around and a whole lot of nothin'! I probably could (should) have done some laundry and other household stuff, but I didn't.

Dinner sounds like a great time in the making. Lots of people! Do you share dinner making with some of your guests, or do you make it all?

We organized and cleaned Will's room. The 2 students (lovely girls) are staying in his room. It was a good catalyst for getting the room better set up for a foster child. I can't remember when his room was this tidy.

The pregnant thing is weird. Some I react to, and others I don't. It can feel like a hit in the stomach when there is news shared...heard heartbeat, u/s looks great.... It is not as bad as it was last year, but it still makes me twinge a bit. I don't like feeling like I do when I hear someone else's good news - I feel a bit nasty really. Cocktails? yes please.

I suppose the men could see your flashing sign that invited them to show you their grandkids. Must turn that off before next class. I guess you are the right age and gender to be a target for all that mushy kid stuff. I am sorry that they were (unintentionally) tormenting you. That 'kid friendly' vibe can be a pain in the @ss sometimes.

I am glad your Mom came to the dinner, that was nice that she decided to join in. I can't believe the appointment is here already. I am sorry to hear that her hand is showing signs of progression. Hopefully the dr's will be able to determine what is going on.

Your Dr is thorough, is it more testing away from home again? I hope it is not as involved as last time. What is it that is causing your confusion?

No new orange anything, but black and white new shirts though. My dr's appointment was alright, just the 'meet and greet' one. I had hoped to have the medical clearance filled out, but our files had not been sent yet. I was told they were being sent Monday or Tuesday. <<insert bad word here>>

SIL is coming Apr 20 apparently. She left a message saying her ticket was booked for then. Anyone want a visitor then? (just kidding)










Mich


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## lolalapcat

Well, Mich, if you just happen to be in my neighborhood at the end of April, you'll have a nice place to stay!

Maybe your SIL will stay with the kids and you can go bead shopping...

It's good that you have Will's room cleaned up, now you are even more ready for the next adventure. Are you having fun with the students? Is Dan getting to practice his Japanese language skills?

Sorry about your dr. appt. I shall take a moment to swear with you.

Okay, I'm back.

I'm confused about the thyroid testing because the American Thyroid Association does not believe this particular disorder exists. The info from Dr. Personality is very candid about this, saying they have had some success with it, even though it's very existence is controversial.

It involves tracking my temp 4x daily on certain days of the month. Not a big deal. Treatment is a bigger deal, as the meds must be taken exactly 12 hours apart, and wow, am I not that organized. And I have to track temp and pulse 4x daily through that. Cannot find a pulse, am not qualified to do that.

I'd like to skip the lead up, and go straight to treatment. My body temp has been really low my entire life, I don't need to gather MORE data on that.

But I am the hoop jumper, watch me go.

I don't think I have a flashing sign! Do I? I thought it was because I was the only woman around, and women are supposed to want to see the grandbaby photos. It is my cross to bear. Um, one of many these days.

Black and white??? Live your life in color, Mich! Tan, talk to her, you have orange clothing!

Off to do Passover research, as I choose not to think of anything else today.

Tan, Mich


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## Mammax4

Funny how life can knock the stink out of you when you least expect it.... I was shopping tonight and saw a young baby. I spoke to the Grandma, she was holding the baby. Turns out the baby was 6 weeks old, born on Valentine's day. I couldn't help but think that would have been mine (+/- 2 weeks) Busily trucking along with other things in focus, m/c there, but not in my face... W-H-A-M right in the heart. I know I feel better (by far, trust me) than I would have 6 months ago, but it still has left me with that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.

Anyway.... back to other stuff...

We have been approved as foster parents. Our skeletons have been taken out, dusted off, microscopically scanned, and have been found acceptable. (we are in the boring end of the skeleton closet...) Our paperwork will be signed by the 'Manager' tomorrow and calls could come at anytime.

Sign me up for the low body temp treatment. I am a popsicle girl - hence the love of blankies. I could email you some good rope jumping songs...I am sure they work for hoops too.

You do have a sign...it not only flashes in neon, but it has a siren that only those with torturously cute baby photos can hear. In order to turn the sign off, you must become a non-warm/fuzzy shmooshy kinda gal.
Hard core b!tchy 'I don't care about anything' attitude would dim your sign.

I have a large selection of white t-shirts. I don't usually wear black shirts, but made an acception as this was made of material that keeps me warm. I do have blue, red, orange and pink (don't think I have ever worn that though) shirts as well. I do tend to wear more white than anything else. What is your favorite colour shirt? Tan?

Speaking of Tan...how are you doing? Are you tired from the start of your meds? Are you running around like crazy getting ready for your dinner? I hope you are doing alright. Let us know when you have a minute okay?

Our students leave tomorrow. It has been a good experience, they are nice girls. It is funny how quickly you forget how long teenage girls can take to get ready in the morning.

Mich


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## Tan II

Hi









Dinner is shared with everyone.Luckily, otherwise I'd be running around like a chicken without a head ! Different people are bringing a : salad, veggies, dessert, fruit. I'm doing the rest. Eggs, soup, matzah balls, meat etc etc.
I 'did' my serviettes last night. Opened the serviette up, then rolled it longways. Then tied a ribbon around it in a bow. Looks nice. I love doing stuff like that !
I am getting organised, so I don't panic on the day. I'll set the table a day or two before, so that's out the way. Prepare what I can before, so it's done. Otherwise I'll be ready and organised so everything runs smoothly.

Mish, I love black and white. I wear a lot of it. Although I wear colours too. Because my hair is so dark, I carry off colours like red and orange well. As well as baby pink, turquoise,white and black !

Keri, I am also always cold ! I always carry a jumper with me (or an extra one !). I don't cope well being cold, and get cold quickly and easily. It was because of my underactive thyroid - I was a constant ice block. It is also because I don't have much covering my bones !!
Brrrr, I hate winter. Thankfully it doesn't snow here or get as cold as what you guys get. It is cold enough for me though ! I love my electric blanket. I HATE getting into a cold bed.

I don't think u have a flashing sign. I think men do gravitate to woman to show baby pictures. Woman are maternal and would want to see baby pics. Men couldn't give a rat's @ss !

Mish, I'm sorry you had such a reaction to the baby.







Time does heal. Although you can't help having a moment that makes you realise what might have been. It happens at a time you least expect it. I wonder if that ever stops happening ?

Yay - foster parents. Congrats ! Now that the skeletons have been dusted off, throw them back in the cupboard !

I am doing ....ok. Actually, maybe it's my imagination but I do feel a little better. Not as heavy. Still not 100%, but better. Funny u mention being tired. I have been feeling tired. I must say, I have been sleeping so well. Something I haven't done in months.

Tayga had his last assessment yesterday. We'll get the 'verdict' in 2 weeks time. *sigh*, I am so stressed with this. I just want an answer and a solution. He can be so trying, and then so utterly amazing.

The school term finishes on friday for a 2 week break. We could all do with it.

I have been seeing my sister nearly everyday. What a treat. It is so nice to be able to do that.

I have been busy with the school Parent's Association. Helping to organise fundraisers for the school.

Going to shower and get into bed. It's raining tonight - perfect tea, good book and bed weather !

Happy thoughts friends, think happy thoughts (rich coming from me !).
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Mich, take my hand, I'll help you back up. I am so sorry that life knocked the stink out of you.









I am now engaging in a moment of gratitude. Other than our godson, there are no other babies around me. The less I know a baby, the more I resent that they aren't mine. Or maybe it's ache that they aren't mine. So I am glad I don't have that reminder around me of what I have lost.

My theory is this will stop happening when our lost babies would have become adults, since that's when we stop asking ages of kids and thereby comparing. So another 15-18 years. Ugh. Hold on.

No, no, no. I am not a flashing neon sign for baby pictures. Animals, yes. Babies, no. Remember, I avert my eyes when I see children? It's a self protective aversion. How can that not come across?

Mich, congrats on being approved! That was quite the process, I admire your perseverance.

Thyroids, maddening! I am cold AND heat intolerant. Summer, I used to love. The older I get, the less I can take the heat. My comfort range is about 4 degrees, 74-78 (sorry, it's Fahrenheit--I still can't find my conversion calculator). And I get cold very easily, even when I know the room isn't cold.

Well, we'll see what I learn here. Maybe you two will benefit, if the condition is real, if I have it, if it's treatable. I'm so tired of 'if'. Oh, it's Wilson's Syndrome, by the way. Very controversial, but the more I read the more it makes sense. It's basically being hypothyroid in symptoms, but euthyroid (normal) in clinical tests. I can see some people not fitting on the charts of what is supposed to be normal.

Black used to be my wardrobe staple, then I got Lola (her hair gravitates towards black) and I got my MIL, who buys me anything purple. So I mostly wear purple, occasionally a nice ocean blue, deep red, green, sometimes brown.

Tan, deep breaths. What will be, will be. Stress won't change it (I repeat this to myself over and over and over). Tayga's evaluations are done, now it's just waiting. Deep breaths.

I am so glad you are starting to feel lighter! Is your sister's family all settled in their new home? You have your routine back, you get to see you sister everyday, it's the best of all worlds.

Did you see the banner on this page for the dvd of 'The Secret'? Did you ever find a copy of the book?

Mom's appointment is in an hour. It will be 3-4 hours long. I anxiously await news. (What will be, will be. Stress won't change it.)

Okay, gross news---the biggest part of my nose scab finally came off! Woohoo, I don't look quite as ghoulish!

Today I am going to go shopping for some of the scar-reducing bandages. Maybe, I am taking care of the folks' cats and cleaning their house, so I'm not sure when I can squeeze in some shopping. Soon, I will try them.

Okay, gotta run. Tan, I hope your early dinner prep is going well! Mich, enjoy the last of your student visitors!


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## lolalapcat

Sigh, double posting again. I am so needy.

My Mom called from Chicago last night. The doctor diagnosed her as having ALS.

I don't think any of us are surprised, just really disappointed. It's an unpleasant disease. Not the worst way to go, but pretty darn ugly.

Lastnight I cried long and hard, today I'm just leaking tears. Falling apart isn't going to help anyone.

I am going to have Northwestern do genetic testing on me. Only 20% of people with familial ALS have an identifiable genetic component, and apparently we are part of the 20%.

It has always been in the back of my mind, the genetic issue. I don't know what to do. It was just a possibility that Mom had the gene before, now I have a 50% chance of having the gene (and my poor brother too, I don't think they called him....). Is it irresponsible to carry on this genetic line, when we can stop it?

And it increases that pressure, wanting to add a grandbaby to the family, we could use some damn happiness for a change. Surgery in August, a few months to conceive, will it work? If it does, if everything works out, which it NEVER does, we'd be looking at at least a year and a half to a baby.

ALS life expectancy is 2-5 years from time of diagnosis. Suddenly time is much more precious.

I am so angry. My grandmother was 75 when she died from ALS, why did it hit my Mom so early? She is only 63.

Damn, damn, damn.

I have to get ready, take care of the folks' cats, tackle some loose ends at work that I have been studiously ignoring. Life keeps right on going.


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## Mammax4

Keri....







I don't know what to say my friend. I am sorry that your Mom's diagnosis was ALS. I suppose there is at least the opportunity for understanding and preparing for changes that will come in time. As difficult as that will be, it is an answer to what has been going on with your Mom.

Falling apart won't help anyone, but you do have to let some of your emotions out or that won't help you. (but we will)

Only you and DH can decide what is right for you with regards to biological children. Hopefully they can get to your testing promptly.

My thoughts are with you my friend, please use us as needed.










Mich


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## Mammax4

I am double posting, because it seemed wrong to go on about everyday mundane things in the face of your Mom's diagnosis. Not that a separate box changes that, but it seemed less disrespectful to me somehow...

Keri my friend... another







just because...

How does your self preservation not come across? Your warm, open, approachable personality invites people to share what is important and dear to them with you. Unfortunately, that happens to be what can be so torturous as well. It is not everyone that would hear about miscarried and stillborn babies from Grandpa's.

Not that this is a big part of what is going on in your head right now, but I am glad your nose is healing. Less scab is good.

Tan, as I understand it, fatigue is a common side effect of many antidepressants. I am glad to hear you are sleeping better, that will help make such a difference to your whole being.

What fundraisers are you doing at your school? We did a 'spring fling' fundraiser (cake walks, bingo, book sale, silent auction,various other games etc) and raised almost $20,000 in one night. I was the donations coordinator for that and had great people that I worked with.

When are you having your passover dinner? (Apr. 3?)

I am glad Tayga's assessments are all finished. It will be good to have a school break while you are waiting for the results. Time will probably go by faster having Tayga at home.

We will be transferred to our Resource Social Worker on Tuesday next week. We got the bedroom all ready for children to come. William wanted to move up to the top bunk, so we switched things around and brought the dresser up. Now we wait until we are needed, which shouldn't be too long if recent history stands.

The student's were very nice. I didn't have the heart to kick them off to bed as the time difference was so great. I stayed up too late all of the nights they were here. I am going to get to bed early....like right now.









Mich


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## lolalapcat

Thanks, Mich.

Mom wanted me to tell her dearest friend about the diagnosis, so I did that yesterday. And they hadn't called my brother, dammit, so I told him yesterday. 3 people called work, and asked about the appointment (my parents were very open about it) so I told them. Absolutely gruesome.

So there was a marathon of 'The Office' on lastnight, DH and I laughed and laughed and laughed. Just what we needed!

I'm trying to find some peace here. The weight of this....I don't want it. I can't change the diagnosis, so I'm trying to find some way to be rid of the weight. You know, the serenity prayer and all.

My house is filthy. I going to speed clean tomorrow, then my brother and I are meeting up with a friend and going to Asian markets and to buy birthday gifts for the godson. Cannot believe he is a year old.

Can anyone tell me why the year birthday is bothering me? My friend emailed his one-year photos, and I bawled. He IS a beautiful baby, but come on...

Well, it is the current trend. The folks' contractor is done with their house, and yesterday I saw that he had built the prettiest little wishing well and put it in their front yard....and I cried.

Tan, how are you? Really?

Mich, you? It's amazing how fast you sped through the foster process, it will be interesting to see what adventures await you.

Your little one moved to the top bunk, is that some sort of rite of passage?

Stupid day isn't going away, I guess. I had better get on with it.

Thanks again, you both listening is the only thing that keeps me sane.


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I am sitting here trying to think of the right words to offer you comfort.I'm sorry this is happening to your mom and to you and your family. I'm sure you are so angry and so scared.
I suppose the only thing I can say, is enjoy every moment you have together. It probably sounds corny. Each day together is a gift. Try and have lots of happy times togetrher and happy memories. Try to push the sadness and anger and frustration away.
It's all easier said than done.

If I had time over to spend with my mom, that is how I'd try and spend it. Enjoying each other's company. Having each moment I could.

I'm here for you in any way.

Big hugs
Tan


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## Mammax4

My brother's wife sent this....

Subject: Beautifully stated....

As we grow up, we learn that even the one person that wasn't supposed to
ever let you down probably will.

You will have your heart broken probably more than once and it's harder every time.

You'll break hearts too, so remember how it felt when yours was broken.

You'll fight with your best friend.

You'll blame a new love for things an old one did.

You'll cry because time is passing too fast, and you'll eventually lose someone you love.

*So take too many pictures, laugh too much, and love like you've never
been hurt because every sixty seconds you spend upset is a minute of
happiness you'll never get back.*

Don't be afraid that your life will end, be afraid that it will never begin.

~anonymous~

I am sorry that you are being bombarded by all of these things. I am glad you are able to cry. I am also glad you had the chance to laugh so much last night.

I hope this was not offensive. I was reminded of it by Tan's comment about her own situation, how she would have done things differently.

Mich.


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## Tan II

Me again. Same reasons as Mish for the double post.

Mish, I am involved in 2 fundraisers so far, the school fashion show. We are putting together a fashion show where the money raised from sponsors and ticket sales will go towards the school (obviously !). I'm on the committee and actively involved in organising it.
The second fundraiser I am involved in is family movie night. Where I have organised with a cinema special rates. It is to see 'Shrek the Third' in June. I am heading up and running this fundraiser.

It's nice to be involved.

Passover dinner first night is monday night, second night (which is what I'm having) is tuesday night. So we go through the whole thing (the story of Pesach) on both nights - and all the food too !

Keri, I wanted to say that I'm sure your mom is also very scared. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. I'm sure she'll take comfort in all the emotional support.















From my own experience, you need to accept what it is, and make peace with it. You can't change the situation. As much as you don't want to have to go through this, it's not up to you.
When u r ready, make peace and accept and go with it.

I hope the Asian market was fun. I love going to markets. Actually, I love any kind of shopping !!

I think the 1st birthday is a milestone one can't help to feel emotional about. It's the move from baby to toddler. I think it's emotional for many reasons.

How am I really ?? ...... trying to answer truthfully. Up and down. Trying so hard to pick myself up. I hate feeling like this. Sometimes I feel better, othertimes not. I'll be fine.

A friend lent me her copy of 'The Secret". The book stores are all still out. I'll start reading it today if I have a moment.
I am going to try a yoga class with this friend on wed night. I'm a bit nervous - never done yoga before. It's easy to stay in my comfort zone !
DH is excited ! Says it'll be nice for me to do something. I'll either love it or hate it.

Better go and see what the rest of the house is up to ! Tayga has just woken up, Jamie has been up for ages. DH is playing playstation - ha ha !

Have a great weekend.
Tan


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## Tan II

Mish, that's gorgeous. So true.

Thanks for sharing.


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## Mammax4

Thanks Tan. I really like that too.

How is the start of your two week break going? Is the weather nice? (HA! silly question..) We have had two whole days in a row that it hasn't rained! Actually, the last week has been nicer over all. Not near as much rain.

It is important that we not let our sad experiences dominate our lives. (although it can feel like what we need to do for a while)








Keri, where are you? If my last post made you mad or sad, I apologize. My intent was no where near that.

I hope your day shopping went alright. I know how difficult baby shopping is for me. Did you manage?

I am sorry that you have so much on your plate right now.

We are all better now, wanna come up for Easter? I have 4 days off. We have a nice bed for you to sleep in! You could help me do an Easter Egg hunt.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Don't you both know that every word you say to me is the right thing?

There's nothing corny, nothing offensive. You are both so brave to say anything. I assure you, I am becoming rapidly acquainted with the discomfort that this diagnosis inflicts on the casual bystander. Every person to whom I have spoken has risen to the occasion, and you are no exception.

Your advice is right on the money. I am trying to put all the dismay aside, because it will interfere with the time we have left with Mom, and because I don't want to sacrifice more years to grief and pain. That's kind of how I have been living, and it's no way to live.

Life is what it is. In the face of your losses, both of you, I can see that still having my Mom at all is a blessing.

It's painful, this circle of life. Que sera, sera.

The Asian markets were fun. In particular, it was enjoyable to take two newbies there, and tour them through. We bought the cutest clothes for the godson's birthday...

MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT: I shopped in the baby section and did fine! It was fun! I didn't spend much time looking at the tiny clothes, but I can't believe that it was so painless. A corner has been turned.

Oh, so we also shopped for books, dvds, beads, herbs...it was a fun day. The weather was different every time we left a store, which was strange. Overcast, sunny, rainy, north wind, south wind, west wind, warm, cold.

Bought the Bach's Rescue Remedy. My brother really did suggest I dump it over my head! I'll try it again today.

I hope you like your yoga class, Tan! My brother has some yoga dvds he is going to lend me, I'm going to give it a whirl. Theoretically.

I've done all kinds of Passover research, it has been most enlightening. I printed out a homily written by a Catholic saint around 180 AD, for celebrating Passover. We're going to acknowledge it somehow tomorrow.

Must get ready. DH wants to go grill shopping, and has promised to take me to a bead store too. Out in the sunshine we go!


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## Mammax4

I had hoped that it wouldn't come across as one of those obnoxious comments we have all experienced at one point or another with regards to our losses.

There were things that I would have liked to ask my Mother, but wasn't old enough to have considered the questions. I don't know if it is a matter of things seeming more important because they couldn't be answered, or if I would have come to question them anyway. It has been a long time since my Mom died...at the end of this month it will be 27 years. (the day before stepmom's b-day)

To know provides the opportunity to say yes when you might have said no, to go out of your way to express your feelings, to ask questions that might not be answered. To truly enjoy each other's company - no regrets.

Will has slept in the top bunk every night since we set it up for him. I had the bottom bunk set up too, just in case. He's feeling pretty pleased with himself sleeping up there. I have to register him for Kindergarten this week...<sigh>

Dan found out his school trip to Japan isn't in two years, but in fact in one. I am not sure I am/will be ready for that. He would go for 3 weeks. scary... maybe I could go too. (ha, ha...he would be So embarassed!)

I have heard good things about rescue remedy; for humans and animals! Let me know how it works for you.

I am glad to hear that you managed alright in the baby section. That is a good thing! No easy task at times. I can't wait until I can shop for yours Keri. That will be fun! What about you Tan, are you still thinking you might?
That is the one area in my life I will have to live vicariously through others. I had a small twinge about that coming home from the store the other day.

It was clean the house top to bottom day here. The guys did outside work. Our deck is one more day closer to being back to useable. No railing on the roof top deck yet.

Still no jewelry making here. I must get motivated to sit and do it. I should get to the library, that might inspire me - if I find a good how-to book.

Mich


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## Tan II

Hi !

Rescue remedy is great. I used it a lot when Gabriel was in hospital and just afterwards. It's not a bad idea to get some.

THis might sound silly, but you checked out the Jewish Passover, not Easter Passover ! The two are different !

I am getting organised. Pretty much on track ! Yay ! Let's hope it stays that way.

I've got a bit of a headache and a sore throat. Hopefully it goes away soon. Just taken something.

Well done to Will for sleeping on the top bunk. They grow up too quickly.

Going to get the boys and myself ready for tonight.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

And it's a sunny Monday...

Tan, I was pretty sure you had mentioned Rescue Remedy many pages ago, and it's come up a few other places too. It's nice to feel like I am being a bit proactive with the stress.

Hmm. Now I must research more. I thought Passover was Passover, and Easter was Easter. There are parallels and similarities, but still separate. The early Christians still celebrated Passover, which is part of why I had to go so far back to find a Christian take on Passover. Not to be disrespectful of the Jewish celebration of Passover, but I wanted to learn why the marking of that event has not been carried on in Christianity. Suffice it to say, I am really confused.

In any event, I hope you have a wonderful, blessed Passover and week of celebration!

I hope you are not getting sick, stay well!

My brother told me about a conversation he had with a friend---about what order they would prefer their parents die. Bizarre topic, I have never talked with a friend about that! Until now.

It sounds awful, and I have guilt from even thinking this way. But it is kind of a blessing that my Mother would be the one to go first. She has always been a supportive wife to my Dad, but pretty critical and nagging at the same time. Nothing he does is good enough.

I guess I am finding myself putting her on a pedestal now, when it hasn't been all sunshine and roses, and that is intellectually dishonest. I deliberately try to NOT be the kind of wife she has been, and I will not be the kind of mother she was either.

Just one of the many things I am struggling with. My new challenge is to stop obsessing about long term care, to pass that bridge when we come to it. I pretty much want all of our ducks in order now, when I know that isn't realistic.

What sort of things would you ask your Mom, Mich? Or is that far too personal, I'm sorry.

Spring cleaning, hahahahahaha! The house is cleaner, but still very cluttered. It's scary. Spring is proving to be far to busy for cleaning, but if I'm lucky I'll get a garden in before June! (yes, I know I could have cleaned instead of shopping, but what fun is that?)

Mich, please make a piece of jewelry, please please please! It is fun, it's soothing to the soul to create something pretty, it's pleasing to the heart to create pretty things to give away...not to mention a blast to create a wardrobe of jewelry for yourself, to fit every whim and outfit!

Okay, I'm off to see if there will be any sense of normalcy ever again at work.


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## Mammax4

How is your Dad doing in all of this Keri? Has he had a moment of quiet yet to absorb and unload with you? Pop open that bottle of what ever and let it flow!

Too personal??? for me, that does not exist with the two of you. You've had me at my worst, how I got there is just details.

Questions I would have asked.... well, alot of them would have been surrounding her home life and my creation stuff. As I don't remember my bio-father around, I have no idea what that situation was like. It is the seemingly unimportant stuff ~ when did you get married, where did his parents live, what happened... The details I have are few, perhaps it would have made me more tolerant of who she was, if I understood what brought her there. I suppose it is the grass roots; 'the where did I come from' kind of stuff.

You do have to try not to let her diagnosis change you. It is a disease she has that gives you a best guess about the time you have left with her. You can make the best of that time, but try not to let it become a 'treat Keri like crap and get away with it' card. DH had that issue. He let his mother be extremely disrespectful and nasty to me without calling her on it because he wanted to keep the waters calm. Do yourself and those you love a favor... walk that line very carefully. As much as you don't want to miss the chance to spend some good time with your Mom, it can't be at all cost. Her disease does not excuse her from proper behaviour.
(that is my two pennies, which with the exchange rate isn't worth all that much!







)

The two resource social workers come in the morning tomorrow. I must admit, I am a bit nervous about that. I know they have okay'd us, I guess it is more like nervous anticipation. This will be when they put us on the placement list. (I think) I will let you know how it goes tomorrow.

I am going to hang with DH for a bit, I have been shopping and driving Dan to and from babysitting all night.

Tan, I hope you are feeling well. Too many things to do, no time to get sick!

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Tan, I hope your Passover feast goes well, and is fun!

When the dust settles, give us an update!

Mich, thanks for asking about Dad.

He has aged 20 years in the last one. The burden is visible on his face, in his stance. It hurts to even look at him, much less consider why it is so.

We asked each other 'how are you' yesterday morning, and we both said 'okay'. I think that will be the standard answer.

Their pastor spoke with them for 2 hours on Sunday, which they very much appreciated. He is a quiet guy, a bit awkward, so I am pleased that he has risen to the challenge.

They called family over the weekend to inform them of the diagnosis, and both of them chatted a lot. Not a good reason, but a good result.

All of a sudden people are planning visits. That is good.

Mom has always been too comfortable asking us to do things for her. It isn't a problem now that she really needs the help. I would appreciate 'please' once in a while, but she is nice about it.

She wants me to drive her places. It is easier for her to get in and out of my car, it is 'girl time' and it gives Dad a break. I'll do it.

I do not tolerate any kind of abusive or even rude language from anyone. That won't be an issue, as my standards are established. Want me to do something for you? Gotta be nice. Mom has been nasty to Dad periodically in the past, but she has been very nice lately. It is a blessing, it makes everything easier.

It truly sucks that your MIL treated you badly. I wouldn't have allowed it!!! Old and sick are not excuses for me. They can feel any way they want to, but they may not take it out on me, or anyone around me. My Granddad was kinda nasty to my Mom and aunts, but not me. Not allowed.

Wow, I'll shut up about that now.









Mich, is there any way to fill in some of the blanks in your family history? Anyone you could ask who would answer? That would be maddening, to just not know. High school yearbook? Could you figure out who her friends were? They may be able to tell you more than family. Who were the witnesses on their marriage certificate? Sorry, I am pushy.

I hope your meeting with the resource workers went well this morning!

Oh, last night I made 2 little bracelets for the girls Mom used to teach in Bible school, and tonight I'm going to make a bookmark for the little boy. Mom can give them the little gifties on Easter. Fun, I tell you!


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## Mammax4

I am sorry it has affected your Dad so much. It is amazing how a loved one's health issues can create such a change in their partner. Worry and stress don't do a body any favors.

Well, two calls on the first day...we will see what comes of it. One is respite, the other is permanent. Permanent is 24/7 care, not necessarily life time placement - it can be in months and/or years. I will find out tomorrow what is going to happen. Permanent takes precedent over respite. I was told to 'hold' the respite situation. Wow! I expected a call, but was surprised at how quick they came. Our resource social worker is a peach! She is great. I am happy to have her as part of our team.

MIL was dealing with breast cancer, and had been for a long time. DH didn't want to create any waves, so let things go. I think that as he was a Mamma's boy, he was also largely immune to the bitchiness she could put out there. What's really sad is that MIL and I had a great relationship prior to BIL's wife coming back. My stance was I didn't want my kids to suffer the loss of their cousins again, so I wanted to 'buffer' them. I wanted that household to get their stuff together before we were all 'one big happy family' again. I also couldn't abide how SIL left BIL and made no bones about it either. (kissed him goodbye in the morning and said 'have a nice day honey, see you when you get home'....he got home to an empty house. She took most of their stuff and the kids without any warning or discussion)

A lot of the nastiness that MIL directed at me was passive aggressive stuff. My favorite was her last Christmas... she gave my SIL (the hag that BIL is divorcing) many things the last was found under the tree after we got there... a full place setting in her china pattern. She gave me something that you would get for free- a 'with purchase' kind of thing. MIL made sure she brought out the present with lots of fanfare, saying 'oh, you have *another* present that was under the tree.'

Now, don't get me wrong...I am not being greedy about stuff. No temper tantrums from me. But come on... why not give me nothing rather than be insulting like that? That was the same year DH's sister wrote MIL's christmas letter that said we had bought a house and left out any mention of our children and their accomplishments. All the while singing the praises of all the other grown ups and children in the family. I sound aggressive aggressive don't I? (no passive aggression here!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The following may be objectionable to some viewers....
Viewer discretion is advised....

_It has made my life easier and less stressful no longer having her as a person in my life._

I know that is nasty, I don't mean to be, but it is my truth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is no one that I could ask, unfortunately. I could try the marriage certificate, but I am not sure if I could get one. As the child of that marriage, I may be able too. I'll ask. Thanks for the idea!

Enough with that family stuff...

Take pictures please!! I would love to see your creations for the children. What fun!

I would think the 'fine/okay' will be the norm for a while. It is hard to get beyond the protective mechanism of one's emotional state. Like you don't know that already.... we are 'fine/okay' far too often aren't we?

Tan, how did your dinner go? How is the school break coming? How are the boys doing? Is Jamie running around yet? Do you have fun things planned for this break? Hey....speaking of pictures.....









Mich


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## lolalapcat

Wow, Mich, 2 calls on the first day...how long does the process take, from the first call to the placement of the child in your home? That's kinda exciting, kinda scary, and my heart hurts for those tiny little kids.

You MIL sounds wonderful.







: And you don't miss that expert level passive aggression?

And I completely get it. While my Mom has been very nice for the last few months, she is a very passive aggressive, punitive person. My Dad has NEVER won an argument, as she simply will not 'lose'. She is a name-caller, a pouter, a tantrum thrower, a controller. Not a nice package. But she is not doing any of that now, which makes caring for her easier, but will make losing her harder. It is an artificial reality.

I am very sad about the prospect of losing her, and I love her and will miss her and will treasure the time we have left together. But my load in life will be lightened. My Dad's will be too. She is a hard woman to spend time with, and if she wanted us to feel differently she could have behaved differently.

That scares me about being a Mom, you know? Can I be a calm, level, loving Mom, the type the kids will WANT to visit when they are all grown up? Because I wouldn't ever want my kids to say the things about me that I say about my Mom.

Yeah, honesty is ugly. What can we say?

Why in the world would your MIL support the evil SIL? Bizarre.

In the US marriage certificates are public documents (maybe not immediately, but eventually), so you wouldn't even need a reason. I hope it's that easy for you!

Yeah, you need to go to your parents' high school reunion. Or at least circulate a letter asking for information. People KNEW your Mom, she wasn't a vapor. Eeek, pushy Keri is back. Sorry, I think.

So lastnight a family friend called, just to see how I was doing. He's more a friend of my brother's. That takes guts. The real friends rise to the top, don't they? He's going to call my parents this weekend.

Tan, I miss you! How did the dinner go? How are you feeling? How are your cheeky boys? Have you taken your first yoga class yet?

Off to join the world. Take care, friends.


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## Mammax4

How long in deed.... call on Tuesday...placement Thursday morning. I must go out and get supplies. (yikes!) Easter weekend too, what fantastic timing! I love watching the kids with their Easter stuff.

I think that we have an ability to stop all the crap that was heaped on us as children. My life has provided me the direction I want to parent. It is an entirely different direction than how I was parented.

Keri, I can say without reservation you don't need to worry about how you would parent/Mother. I know without a doubt you will be spectacular. You are; kind, loving, compassionate, thoughtful, generous, helpful and patient to name a few. (not to forget what a great research assistant you are!







) What child would suffer with a home like that? NONE!

My MIL was the brush it under the carpet kind of woman. I on the other hand want to deal with it and come to a conclusion and move on.

Sorry....Keri - Bah ha ha! No you're not! You should be able to say that to me - and Oh, so much more.

I am not sure where my Mother even went to school. She was 16 when she had me, so was out of school by then. I know she didn't graduate. She was completing more schooling when she died. I am not sure what grade, it was 11 or 12.

Friends really do show their true worth when there are challenges. I am glad your brother has one that is so supportive and comfortable with your whole family.

Off to go get supplies right now. I will talk to you tomorrow.

Mich







:


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## Tan II

Hi Guys !!

Dinner went off really well ! I was orrganised, so there was no need for panic ! Everything turned out really well. A good time was had by all. Yay !

I have indeed tried out yoga. I did a class last night, and did another one tonight ! I enjoyed it. It's quiet challenging, but nice.

Mish, a placement on thursday. OMG ! How exciting.Details !!

Keri, I think one parents opposite to how you were parented. What I mean, is that if your mom was mean to you, you will make sure you are not like that to your kids. Besides, I can't imagine you being mean.

THe cheeky boys are well ! Tayga is on school break. So far so good. Poor Jamie has had a hard few days teething. I think the 4 teeth are nearly all through. He isn't walking yet, but is standing at every possible moment ! He is so cute. He copies Tayga so much. The things he does. He even tries to copy some words. Very funny !!

Happy Easter to you guys and your families. Do you do anything special ?

I'm going to shower. I'm tired !

Have a great long weekend, I know I will !

Tan


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## Mammax4

Details quick....she is 26 months. She will be here about 9:30am today. Will is quite excited. Not me though.







DH is going to phone later today to see how things are going...think he is excited?? Picked up diapers and Easter stuff last night. I will post tonight and let you know how things are going.

Have a good day. I am off to get ready for mine!

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Oh my gosh. I had to sit here and cry for a bit.

I'm kinda jealous I guess. Someone is handing you a baby! But I know with certainty that I could not do what you are doing, because I could never, ever give a child back. Not in my current shoes. And who is so ungrateful that they don't treasure a child? Aaaaack, I want to smack her parents!

Oh, she is sooooo lucky to be at your house, this baby just won the lotto!

Mich, thanks for saying such nice things about me. Sometimes I feel like I'm struggling to just be human, you know? All niceties aside, as I don't have the energy for them.

Tan, when are you coming here to teach me organization and yoga??? I am glad the dinner went well. (Must call brother for yoga dvds, thanks for the reminder!)

Jamie is gearing up to take off running, isn't he? All the better to imitate Tayga! How many teeth are left to come in? I hope he's about done with that painful process.

For Easter we will go to church with my parents (looking forward to that, being in the church typically makes me weep, yes I am insane). Easter dinner at the folks' old house, and working on moving them into the new house. We will eat some chocolate Easter eggs, undoubtedly. Very low key. Thanks for the Easter wishes, Tan!

New Clinic called yesterday, they had a surgery cancellation, so moved mine to June 15th. I'm going through with it, and this is the last thing I will do towards trying to have a biological child. *The Last Thing*. I've talked about the slippery slope, well, I have figured out where it stops. Finally.

DH is soooo confused. I want the surgery, I don't want the surgery, I want the surgery, I don't want the surgery. Tan, it comes back to what you said (thanks!) about covering all the bases. This is the last best try.

And I am so relieved it is sooner, with Mom and all. 2 months is like gold, you know.

So phys. exam, preop tests, surgery and postop follow up appt, all in June. Wedding out of state, in June. In laws' 40th anniversary, July 1st in Detroit. Sighhhh. Why do I keep doing this??? Run, run, run, run.

Mich, keep us posted on your new little houseguest!


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## Mammax4

Well, first day is officially under our belts. Things went very well, hopefully they continue beyond the 'honeymoon'.

Found out why my sister was so pissy that night a few weeks ago. She was going for her insertion the next morning. (no, she didn't tell me, or anyone else) Her DH was in hospital, there had been a big snow storm and she was on suppressant medication. Fodder for attitude perhaps? I told her that was why I hadn't called her in a while, that she had been n-a-s-t-y with a capitol N that night. Her response was 'not me?'. She was of course being sarcastic. Yes it did work this time, so here I am with yet another pg person in my life.

Oh yeah. That is not really how I feel. Sister's pg is not a pleasant thing in my head. I didn't think it would bother me like this. Boy did I underestimate things. All that and there is a Very good chance it will be twins. Different start up procedure this time. Two inserted again, but after all eggs were thawed and left to continue for two days in the lab. So, no eggs left, no further problem about what to do with them. The two best were inserted.

I have such a lump in the pit of my stomach. The green eyed monster is waking.

Gotta run, little pink is sad.


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## lolalapcat

Little pink, that is so sweet! I know it's still the honeymoon, but how are all the men in your life adapting to having a little girl in the house?

I wish the green eyed monster wasn't such a stong force. It's not just jealousy, it's a combo of the reminder of what we've lost, the resentment that millions of other women get to walk down the happy road, and not even realize how lucky they are. It's pain and resentment and anguish.

The road has been harder for your sister. Your happiness for her will come. Right now, go ahead and feel what you are feeling. Take your time (justified, since she has been nasty and sarcastic, and seemingly unapologetic...)

I can't even think of these stupid weddings without getting jealous, because this means there will be more babies. See how the brain works?

And I am bracing myself, for our friends to start working on a sibling for our godson, for my other friend with kids to try for another, for my cousins to have more, more, more......

It is what it is. I don't know how you do it, being around all the pregnant people.

That lump in the pit of your stomach? I have one too. It doesn't go away anymore. I'm starting to consider it a core workout.

Yesterday was a better day. Mom came in to work. We all chatted and laughed. It was very nice. Almost normal.

Dad ordered Mom a rollator, a walker with a seat, four wheels and brakes. It won't do her much good at the old house, which has carpet, but it will be wonderful at the new house. Oh, the rollator is red. Why not have a little fun with it?

So Tan, thanks again for unabashedly coming out in support of my surgery. That really did help me make up my mind.

And Mich, thanks for doing research, as that definitely helped tip the balance also. I'm a little snarky about going through surgery again, but I'm in a better head space about it.

Ugh, the swelling and scabs on my nose are completely gone, so I can see that Skin Doc missed getting all the cancer off of spot #2. Dumbass. He had bright lights and a giant magnifying glass, what the heck? Do I go back to him, or find someone more competent? Am I being too harsh? This really makes me cranky, as I thought the scraping and burning was done. Grrrrr.

If I can see it, why couldn't he? Maybe my Gyne Doc will scrape it off while I'm under general anesthesia, if I ask him really nicely.

A little girl, I'd wanna fix her hair, and have tea parties and play dolls and play dress up, paint toenails....she's probably a shade young for some of that, but oh, the fun!

Mich, Tan


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## Tan II

How's little pink doing ? Is it sweet having a girl in the house ? Is she sad ? Poor thing.
I admire you.

Congratulations for your sister. I'm sure this is hard for you. I also am sure that you are happy for her.








Keri, I'm sorry u r feeling 'green'. I hope your time will come soon.

You must phone your skin doc and let him know he's left the job unfinished. What a pain. U must be so irritated.

Had a chilled day today. Tomorrow meeting a group of friends for a picnic. It should be fun.

Got the dvd of "the secret", going to watch it. It's meant to be amazing. I'll let u know.

Have a great weekend. Happy Easter !
Tan


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## Mammax4

Glad to hear your Mom came in to work Keri. A bit of a boost to see her out and about? Did she just come in to be there for a bit, or did she do some work? (or has she handed that over to you permanently?)

What is your Mom's head space in all of this? Is she expressing any of that? I seem to recall that she was not a particularly introspective type, is that changing at all? Has she tried to smooth the rough edges at all?

Sorry to hear the Dumbass Skin Doc didn't get the job done.
(I love 'dumbass', it is such a great expression - very useful too)

Is your DH confused about this whole thing - being a repeat of so recent tests or is it more about you? (I do want to, no I don't, I do...) What are his thoughts on this as the last thing? Is he on the same page? Is he coming around to the adoption path? Have you had a minute to phone about paperwork from somewhere? If so, how did the read go? Or are you on hold with every thing on your plate and wanting to wait and see how things go with surgery?

Glad your dinner went well Tan. I hope Jamie's teeth hurry and finish up. Have you done anything 'special' while Tayga has been on break? Any word yet from his assessments?

Good for you for doing the fundraising stuff. It can be hard to get parent volunteers for that - it isn't a one night job. What kind of things are you doing for the fashion show? I would come to your movie night, that would be lots of fun.

Have you noticed a change with the antidepressants yet? Any side effects? Are you taking a bit of time for you? Your days are probably busier having Tayga home from school.

The men in the house are good with little pink. She is quite taken with Dan, although I am her favorite!







All things considered, she is doing Way better than I had even dared to hope. We will see how things go, I am fully prepared for some struggles and attitude. It is a good first placement for us.

Our resource social worker seems to be a good match for us too - protective. She was irritated about a respite situation that we had been contacted about and put a stop to it. She is also wanting to ease us in and not overwhelm us - that is very good.

Happy Easter!

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Hi there!

Birthday party for godson was fun. He's a hoot! Cool and calm with all those people around, and such a good sport.

We caught an early supper with the birthday boy and his parents after the party, which was good. It has been ages---they were on vacation the week before the two classes at my work, and we were all busy with different things last weekend. It was nice to spend time with them.

Today was the first time they have mentioned a sibling for our godson. Did I call it, or what?

Mom keeps talking about handing the bookwork over to me (I am patently unqualified) but I keep asking her why she would stop working when she can still do it. So she says 'oh, well I'll keep doing it then'. No fight, so I think she is just looking for reassurance that she is needed.

She is doing okay. She makes references to the bleak future, when she will be in a wheelchair or need nursing help. But it is reality, so it's okay when she refers to it. She has been a shade bitchy for the last few days, which is oh so normal.

She has only cried the day they got back from Chicago. I don't know how she does it. I cry just about every day, often multiple times a day. I am my father's daughter, he is soft hearted.

DH is confused because I am charging full steam ahead towards something I do not want to do, something that dismays and angers me. Sheesh, hasn't he ever done something he knew had to be done, even if he didn't want to do it? I told him I would try one more pregnancy, and this is covering all the damn bases I can cover. Grrrrrrrr.

Tan, I am anxious to hear what you think of The Secret! Since you mentioned it I have seen the books, the dvds....it's everywhere.

Mich, I am so pleased that little pink's stay is going well, and that your social worker is invested in you! That's great. Of course you are her favorite, you are a favorite of ours, too!

Happy Easter and continued happy Passover Week (Feast of Unleavened Bread? what is the whole week called? Happy That!)


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## Mammax4

Oh magnficent, all seeing Keri....do you do readings over the phone or online? I would like to 'see' my future too, and am interested in using your services as I have seen your ability.

Oh my gosh! You certainly can call it.

Sorry your Mom is being a shade b-ish. Hard to judge that one I bet... is it her or is it stress. How do you respond to that? Are you maintaining your prior reaction? or do you feel compelled to take more?

Glad godson's b-day went so well. It is nice to catch up with friends; especially friends that play such an important role in your life.







: That's why I post often!!

Do you have to work tomorrow Keri? I took the day off, the joy of self-employment. DH has to work And...it's Chris' b-day tomorrow. He will be 12. I can't hardly believe that. We are having a special b-day dinner and cake etc. Wanna come for some cake my friends? It will be angel food and we are having fresh strawberries and whipped cream on it.

Tan, how is your sister and her family liking their new place? Have you watched the secret yet? If so, what did you think?

Happy Easter!

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Happy birthday, Chris!!! Twelve, so close to teenagerhood. Big happy cyber wishes headed his way!

Thanks for the cake! It's been a big cake/pie weekend, so it's continuing a theme!

If only I had super powers! It's logical birth order spacing, people like to have kids 2-3 years apart. So if our friends are going to have another, it's time to start planning. Logical guess. I don't ask, you know.

I wouldn't be surprised if they start trying this summer. He's a schoolteacher, so if they plan it right she can take 3 months maternity leave, then he has almost 3 months off in the summer with the baby, so 6 months without daycare. That's how they planned it with our godson. Oh, the ease.

Yes, I have to work today. And I'm tired, we got a lot of stuff moved yesterday. Lots of trips up and down steps. Full day on the feet.

Mom was pretty good yesterday, not being too controlling about the meal, moving etc. Then we were having pie at the end of the day, and she snapped because we took too long bringing her coffee. Mercy, it was ugly.

Yes, I am finding myself taking more from her than I usually would. Dad is too. She is in a miserable position. She can barely get her own coffee, and I try to imagine what that must be like. To be at the mercy of others.

Still, if her fit yesterday had been directed more at me, I wouldn't have been as nice as Dad was. I don't know what to do, this is such a bizarre thing to balance.

But the day might have been really hard for her. Moving into the new house, knowing that her time there is very limited. Having everyone else handle her stuff, and not consulting her before we found a place for it. Ugh, tired of thinking about it.

Tomorrow I start charting my body temp and pulse 4x a day...not everyday, I need to look at the chart again. Maybe a total of 8 days throughout this cycle. A new adventure! Hmm, don't I need a watch with a second hand to take my pulse? I should go shopping.

Did little pink have a good Easter? Do you have any idea how long she may be placed with you? Things still going okay?

Tan, all I want to do with my godson is teach him some English. Where is Jamie at with speech? Am I expecting far too much?

The Secret....can I talk about it yet? Maybe I'll buy the book too.








Off I go, charging into Monday!


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## Mammax4

Pardon me, but maternity leave sucks in the States! It is one year here - a combination of maternity and parental leave. Three months is just not even close to enough. Adoptive parents get the parental leave portion, about 6 months I think. I haven't had leave since Dan was born, self employed gets nada. Back then, it was 6 months leave combined. I never went back.

Perhaps your Mom has jumped to the anger stage of grieving? I can't imagine what it would be like to know that things would likely happen sooner than you had expected.

Is your Mom asking for others to do things for her more often than she would have before? I can understand the difficulty of having others doing the move etc. for you. I am sure I would also put up with more, actually, I did with my MIL. Be sure that you don't let that get too out of control. It can lead to a whole lot of resentment and less than pleasant feelings about the person that is being nasty. I feel bad on many levels about letting my MIL get away with all that she did. Our children were witness to it all. How much they were aware of or took to heart, I don't know. There is never any reason to be someone's doormat. I know I can say this easily because it is not me in your shoes. I worry about your kind hearted self being trampled.

Perhaps before things get too out of control some home care would be a good idea. It can be difficult to let a family member do for you. Would your Mom have issues with someone from outside the family to help her?

charting again...at least it is not bloodletting - I can't help but think of vampires when you say that!! and you can do it without having to go anywhere! Yeah!! Happy watch buying! Hey, mine broke a few years ago - I still haven't replaced it. Ah, the joys of Island time.... just kidding. When I am not at home, I have the vehicle and my cell phone.

Little pink is doing well. Her Easter was good, she spent it with her family. Placement info will probably get sorted out this week. It is never a for sure with length though. If the parent(s) are not taking steps to fix the reason for the child being removed from their home, they don't get them back. It seems to go in 3 month chunks of time. It depends on the courts too. The social worker for the child has to keep going back to court and asking for more time if needed. A child could be with us for 3 months or ? years or until he/she was adopted if that was the care plan.

I best go get more dinner prep done. We are having bbq chicken, tiger prawns (yuck), scalloped potatoes and baby carrots. This will be followed by an angel food cake with fresh fruit and whipped cream. Shall I set extra plates?

Chat later.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Tan, how was your picnic? Is it autumn weather there now, or is Melbourne a bit too tropical for seasonal changes? I should study....

Mich, thanks for setting extra plates for us! The meal sounds fabulous. I'll take a few of those ucky tiger prawns off your hands!

Did Chris choose the meal? Hope he had a good day!

Maternity leave, eh. Don't have a dog in that fight, do I? But you know us Americans, keep those taxes and prices low! Most of the women I know who have kids have chosen to stay home anyway...it seems to be a new trend.

My Mom has always been too comfortable asking us to wait on her. It has required us to shift gears, and really listen when she asks for something. She has always had a curious sense of entitlement.

Yes, we may be seeing some stages of grief here. I hope anger doesn't last long, but I know anger would be huge for me if I were in her shoes.

Speaking of, the blood test kits have arrived. But something in the enclosed literature makes me think Mom got it wrong, and we DON'T have the identified ALS gene. Grrrr. I may email her doctor to clarify, since this is an important distinction.

I think home care may be happening fairly soon. Perhaps in a few months. We'll see how she gets along in the new house, they should be living there in the next couple of weeks. It will really help her mobility and access. Carpet is the enemy. And steps.

Okay, the watch does have a second hand--who knew?---and has a battery so it works. I practiced taking my pulse last night. I do have one, woohoo!

It's 5 days in a row, then 5 days post ovulation. Temp 4x a day, pulse 3x a day. If they put me on the medication for this, it will be temp and pulse 4x a day every day for 2 months. I miss being normal.

But I obviously have thyroid issues, and this is the most proactive any doctor has been in looking at how profound an impact my thyroid may have on fertility. Even the endocrinologists are relatively disinterested in my condition. Everything looks good on paper, it must be okay, right?

Glad little pink is doing well. How are you? Really? And Tan, really? I am insane, as usual, but holding it together.


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## Tan II

Hi Guys !!

The school holidays seem to be taking up all my time !

I hope you both had a great easter, and had LOTS of chocolate !

Passover is finally finished. YAY ! We can have bread again.

I am hooked on yoga. I really have been enjoying it. Did another class yesterday








Even bought my OWN yoga mat.

Had Tayga's assessment today. It seems the result is two things we have to work on. 1) Our parenting skills - ie strategies how to deal with him when he is oppositional. That dh and I are 'on the same page'.
2) They seem to think that when Gabriel died, he never really understood how he felt, and how to express it. That it was never really dealt with. That he may be playing up because he doesn't know how to deal with his emotions.

Another thing we are going to look into, is if there might be auditory proccessing issues. So he'll go to an audiologist and get that checked out.

The plan is that he will go once a week for 3 months for therapy. DH and I will go together every fortnight for parenting sessions - learning strategies etc.

So all in all, I suppose I should be happy there are no major issues and no medication is required. I was sort of hoping I could just give him a pill and all would be ok. Bad hey.
He will get sorted out. It's just time.

Happy birthday Chris. How was the dinner and cake ? I hope u had a piece for me !! Is he having a party ?

Keri how is everything going ? R u ok ? You have a lot going on - for a change.
I'm sure it is very hard for you when your Mom takes her anger out on you.

I haven't finished watching "the Secret" yet. DH fell asleep in the middle - he had been scuba diving the whole day. I want to watch it with him. We haven't gotten around to finishing it yet. We will. So far, so good.

It's after midnight - time to go to sleep !

Have a good day/night.
Tan :yawning:


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## lolalapcat

Tan, it's good to hear from you! I always figure you are busy when you are gone for a few days. And you have been!

You know, when I was in college I took a gerontology class on Death and Dying. In that class, I recall the instructor saying that oftentimes kids would act fine after losing a loved one, but that the grief could actually manifest itself in behavioral problems years later, and go on for years. Like Kubler-Ross's stages of grief, except in slow motion and on a time delay.

Mich---I hate to pick on you, but any insight into this concept?

Two of my cousins are absolute disasters. They are the ones whose mom walked out on them when they were 2 and 5. She started having them stay summers with her, when they were old enough to babysit for her new kids.

They both have massive commitment issues, spotty work histories, lie, cheat on spouses, inactive parents (one hasn't seen her 4 children in 7 years, oh the pain. The other is now seeing his older child--now that she is old enough to babysit for his younger one.)

My uncle and aunt (their stepmom) are good people, I just don't know if it was enough to make up for their mom leaving them. It is tremendously sad to see them leading their lives like this. We've kind of given up on them outgrowing it.

I like Tayga's new doctor. Good for him for not ignoring the effect Gabriel's loss had on T. And he had the double whammy, of losing his Grandma at nearly the same time, and having his parents all devastated. That would do it.

It would be nice if a pill would fix it, that would be easy. But if you deal with these issues, and batten up the parenting hatches, hopefully it will fix the issues. I'm glad there is nothing physically wrong with him, so far!

It will be interesting to find out what the audiologist has to say.

That is fabulous, that you love the yoga class! I may have to look into a video, my brother hasn't gotten his to me. Too much on his schedule and mind.

Tan, I eat chocolate nearly every single day. It would be a sad life if I only ate it at Easter time!

I'm okay. Not great, not horrible. Trying to accept that life is what it is. Railing a bit at the injustice of it, but trying to accept it. Trying really hard to take each day as it is, and not dread what lies ahead.

My Mom hasn't really been taking anger out on me, she takes it out on my Dad, which is worse. I can leave, he can't. I wish she would take it out on me instead. Or better yet, vocalize her feelings. She doesn't have to SHOW us, she could TELL us. Yeah, like that old dog is going to learn a new trick at this point!

Well, I should jump into life today. Maybe I'll start by vacuuming, yucko!


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## lolalapcat

I've got nothing. Nothing has changed since yesterday. I simply felt compelled to check in!


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## Mammax4

A thought... young children have a limited ability to understand their own loss(es). How can you process something you have yet to fully understand? A child's loss may be more evident to them in various moments rather than a day to day reality that we, as adults, experience. Until a child is able to understand the far reaching aspects of their loss, they can't know the end of their grieving process. As their awareness increases, so does their need for the grieving process. Age and situation can effect both how/when the process starts/ends.

As we all know, a delayed grief is never a finished grief. You have to allow the time to grieve - stuffing it only makes it worse. By extension, unattended grief because of a limited understanding could also produce an extended/extreme process.

The challenge is not only finding the way to help the child with their process, but to allow the child to be in control of that process. (especially for control freaks like me!)

A child dealing with loss would run the gamut of negative emotions - sadness, fear, resentment, anger, jealousy, guilt. Not to mention stress - routine gone, family members sad.... At least we have the ability to recognize why things are the way they are. (Not meaning that we do at the time)

And of course there is the always present complication of children turning the situation on themselves and making it all their fault.

My sister was just shy of 6 when our Mom died. Her grief process and the impact it made on her was completely different than mine. In fairness, our stages in life were different too. I learned a new catch phrase in all the social worker meetings....'parentification'. When a child is acting in a parental role due to the shortfalls of the parent(s) in the home. Well, that was me. My stages progressed quickly and ended quickly. My sister was a different story. I think her process was stuck for a good while. She went for therapy shortly after our Mom died, but I don't know how frequently/long or if it was a good therapist.

Tan, you are doing a great thing for Tayga. I have many questions for you about their theories with regards to Tayga and his oppositional posturing and grief process. Would you be willing to humour me?

Yes, Chris did chose his birthday meal. He enjoyed it, especially the cake!

One suggestion Keri, you may want to check into different home care opportunities now, or at least soon. Better to have the pick of the bunch, and know what that bunch is before you need them. It may also take a while to get into their schedule. I know here that is a major problem... too much demand, not enough supply. You can always have a little help before you really need much and get more help as you need it. Better to have it before you and all your family totally burn out trying to do everything too.

I had my first real pang of no more babies sadness the other night. I was folding laundry and came upon a shirt I had made for DH. It has all 3 boys on it, I did it for Father's day after Will was born. Will must have been 7 months old... sitting there with his big brothers...his tiny little self, cute bald head, big blue eyes... It was a real heavy sigh, teary eyes moment. The first time I felt bad about the permanence of my inability.

It really made me think about how much I do not want to go to my parents house for Christmas this year. That is the plan; for all of us to go. I don't want to be there with the new baby(ies) there. Too much for me thanks. My sister had her first son 18mos after Dan and her second 5mos after Will. She would have followed me by 10mos this time. Being there will only reinforce the missing piece for me. I may feel differently later, we'll see.

Tan, I have a book I am going to send you. I bought it at a seminar called 'Boy Smarts'. It gives insight into the male being...not only in educating them, but parenting as well. We are at a disadvantage, never having been a boy. It also helps with understanding DH too!

Little pink is well. Showing signs of settling...challenging a bit. Totally normal stuff. Will is adjusting, sometimes up - other times down. The other day he told little pink that he wasn't her brother anymore. Today he went running down the hall ...'my sister...'. Will like to count the days she has slept over, he asks me frequently. He keeps pushing for her to stay forever. I am honest with him, and remind him as needed. The truth is we don't know how long she will be with us.

Anyway, now that my novel has run on so long, I must stop. I will get kicked off for taking up too much post space.

Mich
















Hey, I'm having a candle party this month, wanna come?


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## lolalapcat

Mich, that makes sense. I too would be interested in hearing more of what Tayga's therapist had/has to say, such as what clued him into the grief issue. Or if it was simply inevitable, T suffered those astronomical losses, and there will be fallout.

Tan, I do see why you were hoping it would be as simple as a pill! Tayga is lucky you and your DH are both pursuing this.

Mich-







Oh, the not-so-subtle reminders. I wish I could make it better for you. Of course the feelings are there, they needed a reason to come to the surface. Ouch.

At least Christmas is still a long way off. I still have an aversion to my cousins' babies, who will be at the two weddings this summer. At least that's just a few hours. Ugh, the whole family revolving around the little ones like they are the sun. It's torture. I will be at the bar. Is there a bar in your parents' house?

I know, bad coping skills. Oh crap, I may still be on painkillers for the first wedding. Now I have no coping skills.

Are things better between your sister and you? Are you being tortured by pregnancy details?

I spend a lot of time thinking about my aunt and uncle, who always made us think they didn't want kids, that they chose lifestyle over family. Turns out, they just couldn't have babies. How much did it hurt them, to have their siblings having baby after baby all those years? And to never show it, never talk about it?

The last few years, my aunt and uncle have started talking about not having kids, and it didn't start until my aunt heard about my own struggles. Now it's a semi-regular topic. Even my uncle has lamented about not having kids to hand things down to. All those years, did they talk about this with no one?

My aunt will be fawning over the babies. My uncle will be at the bar with me.

Good suggestion on the home care, but I can't get my Dad to do anything before he is ready. He is having some issues, I think, with having always been Mr. Competent Fix It Man (things and situations), and not being able to fix this situation.

And I don't think Mom would be open to home care yet. "I can do it!" is rapidly becoming her favorite phrase, and I am learning to back off and let her, even if I think she needs help.

Now they are looking to be living in the new house next week. The ever changing plan has me dizzy. Okay, I can help them do that tomorrow.

I need a quiet weekend in my house. I wonder when that will happen.

It's amazing, how little pink has fit into your home. How strong does a child have to be to do that? Wow. I can appreciate Will's ambivalence, that is so me! I love you, why are you here, I love you, when are you leaving....

Finally, Friday. I must start getting more sleep. And find time to shop for a yoga dvd. And vacuum, so yoga would not be an exercise in getting all cat hairy. Maybe next week.


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## Mammax4

My parents will have a well stocked bar, as usual. I drink more when my parents are around than when they are not. If I have 12 drinks in a year, I will have about that many when they are around. Sounds bad doesn't it! It is not to cope with them, but their norm is a drink or two in the evening. We don't tend to do that, unless inspired socially. My sister will find out if it is twins or not this week. Pour away Daddy!!

I think the hard part of being there with everyone (besides the baby/ies) will be seeing sis in action. She is not the most patient person and tends to be less so when sleep deprived. I am not saying I am a saint, but we deal with things very differently. I suppose it could be a chance for me to help. Don't know if I could handle that.

It is amazing what we put out to other people as a self defence mechanism isn't it? We can almost project the other end of the spectrum sometimes in hopes of avoiding the potential for painful conversation.

With your Mom, could you test the waters by suggesting help with keeping the house clean...so she would have time and energy for something else? Is she someone that would be more receptive to help if put like that?

Thanks for the heads up about not overstaying my welcome! Sort of like great to see you...but don't unpack your bags?









Will asked me if I would go shopping for Timbits (donut holes) when he was sleeping tonight. "Then 'little pink' and I can have some" Ya know where I'll be headin' don't cha?

Extra painkillers may be just what the Dr. ordered! or less and some alcohol!!

More sleep is definately something I need to put as a priority. Little pink is an early riser; between 6 and 6:15am. 6:15am is a sleep in! Not like my norm of 8ish on the weekends. Oh well, it makes for a longer weekend that way! She is in bed by 7:30pm too, so lots of chance for down time.

Alright, there is a conspiracy to get me off the computer... first little pink kept pushing in the keyboard in and climbing in and out of my lap - while helping me type of course... now Rascal (my boy kitty) is sitting in my lap and leaning against the keyboard tray, so my fingers are almost straight while I am typing. This smacks of 'get off' to me, so being the good kitty lady that I am... I will.









Mich


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## Tan II

Hi !!!
This is a quick hello ! Jamie is a terror when I'm on the comp. He either switches it off, or also wants to type. So I have to make it quick !

I'll reply properly later.

Mish, ask away !

Off to yoga soon. Yay !!

Went shopping with my sis this morning. We had fun.

Oh no, here's Mr Jamie !!

Chat later.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan, your whole post made me smile!









Mich, I was thinking of my family when I was talking about 'love you, leave now'! I've had houseguests for 2 weeks, go ahead and try me!

Okay, I'm going to say it now....Mich, you will go for Christmas, you will help with the babies, and you will handle it fine. It may take some extra decompression time in your room, in the car with DH....it may take a couple of extra cocktails, or even a shorter visit. But you can do it.

That's my overall theory on powering through situations that suck, but are in the best long term interest of the relationships I value. You KNOW that it would hurt things with your sister and parents if you don't go. Unless you had an extremely good reason, like you have to be in Nebraska over the holidays!

I will go to the weddings and smile at the babies and go get a drink. Or take another painkiller!

Wow, I really haven't kept you up to date on my Mom. She can sort of sweep, but not really. She can't really do anything in the kitchen because she needs both hands on something to stabilize her. Same thing with laundry, dusting, vacuuming. She no longer is able to clean house.

She gave up driving, did I mention that? I took her home Thursday, and spent an hour putting away laundry, sweeping the floors, feeding cats, cleaning the kitchen, emptying the dishwasher. It needed to be done.

Yes, they need to have someone come out and clean the house periodically. But that will be to help Dad. Hopefully they will hire someone once they are in the new house.

Give Will and little pink and Rascal and Jamie and Tayga hugs from me! I have to get on the road to help the folks pack more!


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## Mammax4

You can visualize Tan's post in your head can't you?!









Speaking of houseguests, ours will arrive April 20th. Yes, at long last...SIL. She booked her tickets without confirming/consulting/contacting us. AND... she is not returning until May 9th. Yep, that adds up to 19 days.

19 days of loud, dirty shoes on the coffee table, hardly ever showering, drinking too much, bringing all kinds of junk into our house SIL. She has a good heart and means well, but sometimes it can be a bit much. The boys love her like crazy, we do too....but 19 days of anyone in your space can be too much.

We may have the perfect excuse to miss Christmas at my parent's house. I am not sure what will be going on with little pink - or another little pink/blue that we may or may not have. We are working our way up to 2 foster children. There is a very real possibility that having them may interfere with our plans. I am thinking we might consider going out in the summer instead. That way we can enjoy the lake and the boat and see the house finished. We'll see. It would be nice to be all together for Christmas. The last time we were all together was just before Chris turned 2. We have had early Christmas with my parents - due to my Dad's schedule at work. We have had my sister and her DH and kids come out for Christmas. But it has been forever since we were all together for the 24th/25th.

Although Nebraska at Christmas does sound Mighty tempting! (careful what you offer







)

I am sorry to hear that it has progressed that far Keri, I didn't realize. I should have, I didn't really think about the walker ordered recently. Too busy trying to come up with a way to ease your Mom into help that I didn't think. Sorry.

Are your parents closer or further or about the same distance away now? Did they have this house built, or did they renovate before moving in?

Tan, how are you doing? Hope you enjoyed your yoga class.

<insert evil cackle here>







too late now...my plan is in the works







<insert evil cackle here>










Mich.


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## lolalapcat

Wow, 19 days....well, since you are the architect of an Evil Plan, I'm sure you can handle it!

19 days. That is such a long time. Think of all the jewelry you can make! Focus on little pink, and baking things, and chatting with us.....focus, focus. We'll do whatever we can to help you through!

So you may be taking in another Visiting Child....when may this happen? Do you have any more insight into how long little pink may be staying, or is this the name of the game, prepare for anything?

No apologies are due for not knowing my Mom's condition, you are completely reliant on me for that information! It is gradual, so we see these landmarks approaching before they actual get here. We have lots of prep time, and so it's not a shock when she can no longer do things...we have seen it coming.

There house is brand spanking new, completely handicapped accessible, except for the biffy in the master bath. Somehow they dropped that ball, and it is the only toilet that cannot be accessed via wheelchair. Duh.

The old house is nestled in the middle of a hilly, gradual river bluff. The new house is on the ridge of the bluff, so it's within walking distance of the old house. They started building the house about 4 months before Mom started showing symptoms.

Mom and Dad will sleep in the new house tonight. We got a lot of stuff moved yesterday, and will do more today, with more help. My aunt and uncle are coming to help, which is so very nice.

Mich, the vodka is on the kitchen counter, standing by in case you need me to have a sympathy cocktail with you when you hear from your sister.

If only there were a baby fairy, they could leave you one and leave me one. I'm greedy though, I'd like at least 2. Umm, soon. Then we could be normal happy people again. Or would we?

Blahblahblah. I have to do some work around this house, so I can go work at my parents' houses. Happy rest of the weekend!


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## Mammax4

19 days is a long time.....not the longest she has stayed, but certainly up there.

I made my first dangly bit for a necklace a week ago. It wasn't too bad - I think it looks okay, but I made it many times before I was okay to leave it alone and say it was finished. I will get out my stuff while SIL is here, a buffer if nothing else. I focus, they move on right? BIL goes on to other stuff when I am here. (computing)

Speaking of BIL... he has an apartment sometime in May. The one that he was offered when this all began is coming up in May. He told the owner he would take it, but that he may not move in right away. He doesn't have any 'things' yet to put in an apartment. Perhaps when he has gone to the discovery (JCC) thing this month some of that will get sorted out. It would be great if it was all sorted out then, but I dare not hope.

How did the bathroom get missed? Contractor mistake, or general oversite?

Wanna pass me a drink when the time comes? I think it will be a relief to know that it is okay for her - I sure wouldn't want her to have any pg issues. As difficult as it is for me, I don't wish bad things for her. I don't think it will matter if there is one or two, it hurts just the same. If there is two, I will be more concerned about her ability to cope. She has had PPD issues, really needs her sleep or she's less nice then she ought to be. I told her when she was pg with her second that she would have 2 next time. We'll see if I was right.

Keri, if there were a baby fairy, I would ask her to give you mine. I have had the joy, x 3. I want you to experience it too.(x ???) I await the day, either through your uterus or your heart.... soon.

We will eventually have foster child #2. Not before July, perhaps later. I don't know anymore about little pink's time with us. I will have a better idea when her social worker has contacted us after court. Our social worker seems to think it will be a long time. It really is a hurry up and wait game though. The placement can be extended repeatedly. Eventually though, parent's rights can be terminated if they are not doing what they need to. At that point, a child under 12 would be put up for adoption.

Did I mention that I signed Will up for Kindergarten? Did it on Friday. Later Friday night, Will told me that he couldn't go to Kindergarten.... "I won't know what to say. You'll have to introduce me." I told him that of course I would introduce him.

Hope you had a good weekend. We didn't have any rain for a change.

Tan, are you doing alright? Is Tayga's school break over yet?

Mich.


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## Tan II

Hi









Here I am !! The weekend was hectic ! Then to find the time to get to the computer without Tayga nagging he wants a turn, or Jamie switching it off !!

Jamie is sleeping now, so I thought I'd quickly come and say hi (while my cheese muffins are in the oven !).

Tayga is so fussy, it is difficult to fill his lunchbox with healthy food that fills his tummy. So now I'm on a mission ! I've been baking ! I've just made low GI chocolate oatmeal cookies, and have cheese muffins in the oven. IT's better than putting junk in his lunchbox, or him being hungry. Got any other ideas ?

Tayga is back at school ! He went back today. Yaya ! Part of me is happy to have the break, and part of me is nervous. Nervous how he will behave at school.
He starts his therapy tomorrow.

I went to yoga again on sunday. I am hooked ! I'm really enjoying it. Did I mention that the kind of yoga that I'm doing is Bikram. That is where the room is heated to about 40 degrees C(that's about 104 F). It's HOT !!! I have never sweated as much as I do in these classes. I am drenched. But it is almost cleansing. Sweating out all the toxins.

Mish, I hope you will take time out for you and DH when your SIL is visiting. You have a 'built-in" babysitter. Go for dinner, go for a walk together, go and spend time together.
Does she normally get into your space or is it ok having her stay ?

Keri, how is your parent's new place ? Besides the bathroom, are they happy ? Did the move go smoothly ?

Poor Will, it's a big move to kinder. I'm nervous for him. I'm sure he'll be just fine. How are you Mish ? He'll probably be fine, and you'll be the one with a tear or two !!

I am feeling so much better. I wonder if it's me or the pills or both. When should I stop them ?
This morning Jamie threw his full bowl of cereal on the floor. Normally I'd shout and get angry. THis morning I took a deep breathe, and cleaned it up. I was impressed with myself !!

I'd better keep moving. I'm on fire today - got the dishwasher going, just finished a load in the washing machine, baked cookies and muffins !! Now I'm going to hang up washing and get another load in the machine. Then have lunch and pass out !! Jokes. Jamie should be up soonish - so I want to get as much done while he's asleep.

Have a great day.
Tan


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## AntoninBeGonin




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## lolalapcat

Tan, I think you just got a hug! And you sound so energized, is it the yoga or the pills? (Note to self, must do yoga and take pills.) It truly is wonderful to hear the happy note in your posts! Hooray on keeping your temper! Now I am jealous, if only I were so reasonable.

Is Tayga enjoying all of the baking? Eating it, I mean? I've got a recipe for whole wheat muffins that you can load with all kinds of different good stuff...but I'm not sure what qualifies as low GI.

I'm a big fan of whole foods, just because I like them...any kind of fruit, raw veggies, boiled eggs, cheese. Does Tayga like the simple stuff? How about granola bars or homemade granola? The bite-sized shredded wheat cereal is a favorite of mine to snack on, crunchy and sweet, but whole grain.

So Mich, May is going to be a celebration, all in-laws out of the house? It will It will be good to have your space back. Tan can tell you all about that!

And of course you don't want anything bad to happen to your sister! Even in all of my evil whining about Other Pregnant People, I don't wish for them to be on our path. It's just that Green Monster, it takes awhile to get him off our backs.

A couple of times you have mentioned your sister's issues with lack of sleep and ppd. She has some real cranky issues, doesn't she? Pot calling kettle black here, I don't deal with lack of sleep very well. But are you concerned about her ability to cope with a newborn at this point? Not that there is much you can do...not a comfortable situation.

The move was exhausting. The folks spent last night in the new house. I hope it went well!

My aunt is worth a ton of gold. She cleaned out my Mom's closet, all 30 years of it.

We got a lot of stuff moved. If only it were done.

Of course, DH and I had an argument over nothing yesterday morning, which we never, ever do. We are both tired, and want some time off.

And I got growly with Mom last evening, because everyone wanted to finish up and go home, and she was packing truly unnecessary stuff. Like she couldn't do that last week, or today, or any other time but 6:30 on a Sunday? And she wouldn't leave the old house--we had one last load, her clothes and toothbrush. I should have left her, and let Dad pick her up. Not a good way to end the day.

Must work on crankiness.

I certainly hope they are happy with the house! I don't know how the master bathroom got overlooked. And I don't know what they are going to do about it. I have volunteered to widen the doorway, but they haven't taken me up on it.









So now I am waiting for the plumber. Our basement is wanting to flood, the drain is backing up into the house. We've been trying to work on it, but it is clearly time for professionals. Hope it's not too much $$$, but if I can take a bath and do laundry it will be worth it! Not a good day to take a morning off from work, but it is nice to have some quiet time at home!

Mich, congrats on the first piece of jewelry! Have fun with it. I make some things, wear them for a while, then remake them. Nothing is permanent when you know how to construct the jewelry!

Will is absolutely precious! What a grown-up thing to think! It sounds like something Linus or Charlie Brown would say, out of the Peanuts comic strip. Rather profound for a kindergartener! Perhaps a 'Hello, My Name Is' tag would ease his mind. Practice cocktail conversation...'so have you read any good books lately? Have you met the teacher before? What do you do for fun?'

I hope Tayga's first day back at school went well, and good luck on his therapy tomorrow! Great things, I expect great things.

Tan, how do you not pass out when you are that hot while doing yoga?

Okay, I'm going to stop the completely disjointed post, and go get some more coffee. Hope the world is treating both of you well!


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## Tan II

Thanks for the hug !


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## Tan II

Hi !

Tayga liked the choc cookies, but not the cheese muffins. He was so sweet. He kept on apologising that he didn't like them. I told him it's ok ! I made him choc chip muffins today. I know he likes those !

I hope the plumber arrived and the basement was sorted out.

Doing the yoga is hot ! I find that if I get my head in the right zone, I actually enjoy the challenge of getting through the class and the heat. Watching the sweat drip off of me (I know it sounds gross!), I know I'm winning !

I'm off to get Tayga from school, then off to therapy.

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan, I get really light headed when I'm too hot---I'm afraid I would collapse during bikram yoga!

Once a friend told me, while we were rollerblading, that she had never seen anyone sweat as much as me. Just when exercising, not all the time! My body tries very hard to keep itself cool.

So I got the 'do you have kids' question yesterday. Irritating.

DH and I met friends for supper lastnight, which was fun. Our godson was there, he is positively adorable! He is now trying solid food, which didn't go so well at the barbecue place.

Which leads back to Tayga, that is so sweet that he apologized for not liking the muffins! I really hope his therapy went well, and am curious to hear more about it.

It is Tuesday, and I am beat. Really need a day off.

Although I did get the house really clean while the plumber was here! The pipes are clean, the invasive roots are gone, we can do laundry and shower again!

Take care!


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## Mammax4

Yes, I suppose you could classify me as a worrier when it comes to my sister. We parent on opposite ends of the spectrum - not saying that my way is the right way. It makes it difficult for my kids to be around their kids. Mine can do the wide eyed 'OMG - what do I do?' thing, they get overwhelmed by the backtalk.

I see my nephew (the 13yo) as having some parentification issues. That makes me sad. He should be able to be a kid, not do stuff because the parents are too lazy. I am all for chores, and getting better and better all the time about getting the kids to do things. That is my complication of childhood....not asking the kids to do stuff, even when they can/should. Don't misunderstand me, they have always been responsible for their rooms and have been asked to do things on occassion, but now....they have a chore everyday.

My sister had Bad PPD with her first. She told me after the fact that she had visions of driving into an intersection - to have an accident. She never did, but it has raised my level of concern. I think she may have had some post-traumatic stress issues surrounding his delivery too. Her partner at the time made a nasty environment for her to live in as well. She was much better with her 2nd child. I know what she was like though and I do worry about the oldest having more to do and my sister coping with what will be on her plate. I am hoping for only one to be coming....

Never mind the complication of $$$. That is another area where we differ 360degrees. They don't have a safety net, it is so important when having children as you never know what will come up with them.

Anyway, that is my late reply....I must get started in my day. I will post more later.

Later:

Tan, I am so glad to hear you so up and energized. Be it yoga or meds - Yeah!! How nice that Tayga recognized your effort, and appreciated it - even though he didn't like the muffins. I bet he liked the chocolate chip!! Chocolate chips make everything yummy don't they?

Keri, I am sorry you had *that* question, if only people knew how hard that can be for others.

How much longer do your parents have before they have to be out of their 'old' house? Can you see an end to this pace? Bad timing with the weekend classes and then the move. REally no time for putting your feet up.

My day was insane today. Still dealing with the building inspector re:addition. I am going back and forth between him and the engineer. I appreciate how the engineer 'has our back', but the more I am becoming aware of, the less patience I have with the inspector. The inspector has no problem spending our money - asking for engineering to be done when it is not needed. Thankfully, we have a great engineer that says No way! I just want to fill the hole in my back yard and let the kids play without worrying about keeping them out of it.

Mich


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## Mammax4

Are you both okay??


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## lolalapcat

I'm okay!

Sorry I didn't check in yesterday. I went to work early, as we had visitors in from another state for a couple of days (work related) and I wanted to bid them farewell. And I didn't feel well lastnight. Dumb old upset stomach.

I'm sorry the inspector is nitpicking your projects. They hold so much power, and so often are kinda crabby. Good for your engineer for standing up to him!

It does sound like your sister is a bit complicated.

The 13 year old nephew might be upset at his work load being increased....poor kid. Is he old before his time? I can see how that concerns you.

We always had to help around the house, but it wasn't because my parents didn't want to do chores, it was because they were teaching us how to run a household. Okay, maybe they took advantage of having a workforce available, but it's not like we were solely responsible for anything other than dishes.

Eh. The question. I am getting closer to the point where I might start saying 'we haven't been able to have kids'. Not a verbal smackdown, but a lesson that the question isn't a casual one for everyone. We'll see.

There is no set end date for the parents' old house. I have volunteered for one day this weekend. My brother is going to a Nascar race in Alabama, so won't be helping them move for a couple more weeks. It is unfortunate timing, because he is an animal when it comes to moving....just get out of his way!

There is still a lot of stuff in that house. Ugh. I HAVE to work in my yard and garden sometime, or I will never get caught up!

I may survive until Saturday. Running late nights on Monday and Tuesday, after a weekend of work....that was dumb. Tired.


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## Tan II

Hi Guys !

All is well. Had computer problems !

Can't chat now, rushing to get Tayga ready for school (and me !).

Will be back later.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Mich, do you need me to come to your house with shovel in hand? I'll help fill the hole in your yard!

Something tells me it's not quite so simple, but I wish it was!

My Dad thinks they will spend this weekend getting caught up on unpacking, so I may get a weekend off! Woohoo! The dandelions have the audacity to bloom in April, and I feel inspired to rain Weed-B-Gone on their parade! And wash a pile of summery clothes to freshen them, change the sheets, sit on the porch swing....

My brain has been really busy lately. My aunt called to chat about ALS a couple of days ago, so that is part of it. My Mom is spending most of her time in a wheelchair now that they are in the new house, so that is part of it. I have more time to think now, and have been thinking about looking into adoption info, so that is part of it.

I've also been thinking about a will, increasing my life insurance policy and looking into purchasing long term health care insurance. Just to be safe. It's not that I am predicting my own genetic doom, it just seems wise to cover the bases so we are prepared, no matter what may happen.

I'm not sure why my brain was so quiet there for awhile. I wish it would shut up again. Perhaps it's because I haven't been unloading here.

But I swear, I am not all gloom! Life is okay.

Mich, are you okay? Tan, we're still waiting!


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## Tan II

Hi Gals !

Sorry, the day got away with me.

Keri, I think it is responsible of u to get insurance. I HOPE u never have to use it. Rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.

DH and Tayga have gone to look at kittens ! They might come homw with one !! I'll keep u posted.

Tayga had a good week. Shew. Not 100% but better.

Jamie is hysterical. Such a character. I must send more pics.

I am starving. It's lunchtime. Got to eat.

I hope you have a great weekend.

Mish, how is little pink ?

Keri, did u get the yoga dvd?

Chat later
Tan


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## Mammax4

Keri, yes...I do need you to come to my house - you may not be able to bring a shovel on the plane unless it is in checked baggage. I'll spare you the hole filling if you'd just give my head a whack.

I know what you mean about a busy head due in (large) part to lack of unloading. Sign me up for that diagnosis too.

My sister called me from the truck, right after her u/s... her greeting was 'you were right'. There are two in there... it has brought out such ugly in me. She mentioned wanting me to come out shortly after delivery. How could I possibly? They won't be going to my parents for Christmas. I have such negative crap in my head.

Family just got home from Chris' bowling 'kid party'. I will have to get back to you later. No lurking allowed for this....

M


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## lolalapcat

Mich, I'm not going to whack your head with a shovel, no matter how nicely you ask!








I know how disconcerting it is, to want to be all happy and nice but feel all dark and ugly about it. It's not who you are, it's just how you feel. And it's natural and common, to resent other people's pregnancies after your double loss, even if you will be happy for them in the long run.

At least you have the automatic out for going to visit---you are foster parenting, and it wouldn't be good for you to uproot little pink, or whoever is relying on you at that time. Be noncommital about the visit, but ask for tons of photos and phone calls. You can have your DH take the calls, and open emails whenever you feel up to it.

Nobody told us we'd have to fight this fight. You think the grief is it, all you have to deal with, but then you meet the Green Monster.

It did make me feel better to learn DH was fighting with baby envy also. Not that I want him to hurt, but he's such a better person than I, and for him to feel it too made me seem less awful and alone.
_
Big heavy sigh._ I'm sorry you are having pregnancy shoved in your face. It would be nice if you would get a break from it for a while, but it's not happening.

Tan, send pics of hysterical Jamie, and of the new kitty! Mich, I still need to get you photos of the Easter bracelets I made, I did note your request and have just been to lazy to crawl under the desk to relocate the cord I need.

I also need to send bracelets to the two of you. The orange ones---I wore one yesterday, it was maroon and orange day to honor those killed and hurt at the Virginia Tech shooting, and I have nothing orange, so one of the bracelets has a few miles on it now!

No, I haven't been shopping anywhere for weeks, but DH and I are taking the recycling in and doing some shopping, so I will look for a yoga dvd. My stress level is up, and I'm sure exercise would help. If only I could locate my checkbook.

We just got updated billing from the New Clinic. Mercy. I am confused and overwhelmed. This could be expensive, if insurance doesn't belly up to cover more. But I am convinced we are going to do this, so....I'll call the billing department on Monday to try to figure out what is covered and what isn't. The yoga dvd may be the last luxury for a while.

Tan, thanks for the support on the insurance thing. It's less expensive if we purchase it earlier in life, so I figure we might as well get it. For DH too, on the long term care. You never know what may happen.

Good to hear Tayga had a good week---how did his therapy go?

Mich, dump it out here. You know it needs to be done.


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## Mammax4

At long last, some time without inquiring eyes.... I hope it lasts long enough to purge my brain a bit.

I am surprised at the extent of the ugliness I am feeling. I had anticipated some, but not this much. I am more concerned about what the whole picture looks like - long term. Perhaps my concerns 'justify' my shitty space - at least in my own head. Perhaps my shitty head space has made more of my concerns.

There are so many things that are going on in my head, none of them particularly nice or positive. On more than just her pregnancy.

I wanted to 'blah' a bit to my DH about this and he totally shut me down. He made some excuse about needing to do something that took him out of the house. Maybe it scares him, having me need him in that capacity. It is getting harder and harder to want to be positive about our relationship. The grasp we have, at times, is so tenuous. I have not bothered to try again. There seems to be no point. The timing is bad too... house full again.

So, here I sit... having my own little pity party about my sister that I think shouldn't be having one baby - let alone two - ....that my once amazing relationship has now become something hollow and empty. It feels much like going through the motions. We have lost so much. I have lost myself, my light heart, ability to be carefree and my confidence in my partner.

I am not looking forward to going through this pg with my sister. I will, but I can't think beyond one day at time right now. A delicate balance between supporting her and my own sanity. At least she will have her MIL living very close soon. Her MIL can be her helper after the babies come, that will reduce my guilt at not going then.

More pics Tan??? Did I miss out? Glad to hear Tayga had a good week. Bit by bit right? Did your DH and Tayga bring a kitty home?

Sorry to hear you have the who pays what and how much going on with the New Clinic. Not fun to have that complication added in your mix. I am thankful things are more straight forward here. (at least I think they are) I still don't get the whole insurance/medical coverage thing in the US. We have our provincial medical coverage, our extended health/dental through DH's work and life insurance. It sounds a bit like you are the 'middle man' for your insurance coverage. That would be a hassle if that is the case.

Anyway, I have now another hover-er and must get going. Sorry for the disjointed post, between the vile brain activity and the hovering BIL trying to have a conversation with me and Now Chris is hovering because he wants a turn on the computer....it may have jumped around a bit.

I hope you are both doing well. I need a vacation...from my head.

Much appreication and love for the both of you and all of your patience and understanding...









Mich


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## Tan II

Hi Mish

This is a quickie, I have to get dressed and ready to take Tayga to school.

I just wanted to give u a hug







and say"it will come right".

Take a deep breathe. It's ok to feel the way u do. Acknowledge that. We will work through this together.

Hi Keri ! Can't not say hi !

We did ge
t a
kitty. We called her "tim-tam". A name o
f a biscuit (do u get them ?) She's so cute.

Mish I'll forward the pics onto u, and send more !

Got to go. As u can see Jamie is interfering with my typing !!!

Big hugs
Tan


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## Mammax4

Thanks for the hug Tan. It was perfect timing!

How exciting to have a kitty in the house Tan! I hope she settles in easily. How old? What does she look like? Is Jamie trying to chase her yet? That is a great motivator for fast movement! Little pink chases our two cats. They are becoming very adept at the 'deek' maneuver. What is a tim-tam? I have not heard of those biscuits.

I have to tell you that I can't help but grin at the computer when I hear Jamie is helping you on the computer. I have the funniest picture in my head. Somehow they have almost octopus arms when they are 'helping'. (too many to keep away from the keyboard)

Love, love, love the pics. The boys are spectacular! I will have to get some new pics of my guys. The most recent ones on the computer were from Christmas time.

We have had some nice weather the past few days. Nice for a change, perhaps that will inspire less yuck in my head. I took Will to a friend's b-day party today. They came and borrowed a couple of climbing toys for their backyard. It was nice to catch up a bit...more little babies hanging around.

Keri, how happy is your DH with the hockey results??

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Mich--









I'm about to get bossy, brace yourself. You absolutely must prioritize your marriage right now. You can be apathetic about anything else you want, but this is your long term plan, the one who won't grow up and move on, the one who is in it for life.

I think husbands don't want to listen to our emotional stuff because it compromises their ability to be 'the strong one' in the relationship. That's my theory anyhow. Just get the hug and don't explain why you need it. That's what we are here for.

Maybe your DH was trying to get you to think about something else...my DH isn't particularly indulgent of my insanity. I have learned our marriage is better if I unload it here, and only give him the overview. And the less I talk about our 'issues' the more he will talk.

Marriage care. We haven't been checking on each other, pushing each other to keep up with the self care and marriage care. You are in need of both, sweetie.

Remind yourself of the ways he is a good husband, just to start getting your head back in a better space. List them here if you want. I know that he is a keeper, you have told us too many sweet things he does!

As far as your sister, you can't make your emotions go away, nor should you. Your concerns about your sister are valid. Your resentment of her potentially having 2 babies is valid.

I know I keep beating this drum, but when my best friend was pregnant, I started feeling less ugly about her pregnancy maybe in her 7th month. It took that long. And then it started again when GJ was born, just for a few more weeks. Periodically I still have deep, deep jealousy, but it is passing.

Just accept it (the nastiness in your brain). IT WILL NOT ALWAYS BE THERE. And yes, one day at a time is the only way I get through life. I can do this today. You can too. Just today is on the agenda.

I don't know how we get back our old selves, if that is even possible. I like to think it is possible. Recovery of self, I wonder if there is a 'how to' book on that.

I am sorry you are feeling this way. Thanks for unloading here, you know we want to help. Keep talking. I am listening.

Tan, hi! Congrats on Tim-tam---no, I've never heard of those biscuits either. Pictures of the kitty, pictures of the kitty!

The New Clinic's billing office is now open, so I am off to call them and see if they can make me feel better. It's because the clinic is outside of our insurance's network that it is so confusing. They send statements of what they are covering, the clinic sends statements, everything is on a bureaucratic time delay, so we don't actually know what is going to be covered.

If our insurance doesn't cover more, I may be cancelling the surgery. It is a repeat, and we are already in medical debt. I am very conflicted. Me, confused? Nooooo.








Keep talking, Mich. Expose your brain to the oxygen and sunlight.


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## Tan II

Tim-Tam is a YUMMY choc biscuit (I may have to send u 2 some !). We decided to call the kitty tim-tam becasue she is looks like vanilla ice-cream with caramel and chocolate fudge !
She is very cute. Only 12 weeks old. She is a Norwegian Forest cat.

Jamie loves the kitty. He hugs it, and tries to pick it up and pats it !
Tayga is thrilled with her. She slept on his bed last night.

Mish marriage is hard, and there are always 'ups and downs'. The 'downs' have to be really bad to think about moving on. There are always challenges. One moves forward while the other stays behind or in a different direction. It takes effort and the desire to want to change things.
I have had a few hairy times with dh, where I have thought I can't do this anymore. When I have thought long and hard, I came to the realisation that it wasn't only him that was the problem. It was me too, and my attitude (which can get big !!).
I didn't want to be apart from him, even though at the time I didn't want to be with him.
We spoke things through. I actually wrote him a letter. I found it easier to express myself. I'm sure he felt less defensive being able to read what I had to say, in his own time and space.
Things are good now. He had learnt things, and so have I. We understand each other better.

Isn't that what marriage is about ? Having challenges, getting through them, learning about each other and possibly changing.

If I can just add, it is crap to feel what u r feeling.To not really like the person u r meant to LOVE. IT's quite scary. To be in a loveless unhappy relationship is not good either. Sometimes things are not as bad as what they seem. Marriage is hard work. It takes lots of time, lots of effort.

You have a good husband, even if you forget sometimes. Which is easy to do.

Okay, lecture over.

Keri, how are your parents doing in the new house ? All unpacked and sorted out ? What happened with the bathroom ?

How's your mom?

What happened with the billing office ? I hope u were able to sort it out.

I don't think we ever get back to our 'old selves'. We can't because that innocence and naivety has been lost. We can become 'new selves' ! Which is part old self, part new self.

Don't be so hard on yourself about your sister's pregnancy. Maybe be honest with her and say something like "I am so happy for you, but it is really hard for me."

Have a great day. I'm going to yoga tonight. Yay !!

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Mich?










I'll go back to reading my 'Proper Care and Feeding of Marriage' book and see if I can get you any jewels of wisdom.

One day at a time. How often do you talk to your sister?

Our friends that I talk about, the ones in their 40's who have had 2 babies in rapid succession? Their older child has leukemia. They found out Friday, I found out yesterday. She is only 16 months old, and started chemo yesterday. Prayers and good thoughts, if you would send them please.

Life just craps on people, doesn't it?

Tan, thanks for asking about my parents. They are enjoying the new house. Dad is trying to figure out how to use all the new kitchen appliances---he actually cooked inside instead of on the grill!

Mom is using the wheelchair most of the time in the new house. It is really accessible, which is good. I've heard no news about their plans for the master bathroom. At least the other bathrooms are wheelchair accessible, but the master bath is really close to the bed....

I got some information from the Billing Office yesterday, but I pretty much need to call the hospital to find out total costs, and call our insurance company, to find out what they will cover. I do not have the energy to tackle that today.

I have never heard of a Norwegian Forest Cat! Fun. Of course your description of her made me hungry! Is she patient with all of Jamie's attention?

How is Tayga's therapy going?

Okay, I have a question. What is the association of your countries with Great Britain? Completely independent, regarded as protectorates, do you pay any taxes to them, or is it a historical association only? DH and I do not know enough, please teach us!

It is a rainy day here. I am okay with that, the sunny days can be hard to take.

Take care, friends.


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## Mammax4

Yes, I am here. It is hard to get on without eyes hovering. Tan-I feel your prior troubles! If it is not one IL then it is the other.... and not just being close, but actually coming up and reading what I am reading or writing. (how rude!!)

I will do my best to stay on top of things.

I have not yet got the evil plan in the post...should be tomorrow, so two weeks(ish) then.

I usually talk to my sister regularly - at least a couple of times a week. Lately it has been much less. It is very rare actually. Call me chicken, or self preservationist either label would fit. We stood down when she was a crabby pants at me and haven't picked it up again. Little did I know she was avoiding me so she wouldn't spill the beans. She will phone me if she needs me. I need a break...I have 3 in my face, don't need the closest to my heart pecking away at me at the moment.

Keri, I am sorry your friend's are going through this. You have my strongest positive energy and thoughts being sent to them. My prayers as well.

I do know that DH is ultimately the one for me. It is just hard to see his inability to step up to the plate when I need him to for the first time. (this whole m/c insanity) Maybe that is the problem, I am the 'strong' one. I don't know. I look at his face and know that he loves me and it helps, most of the time. It isn't that I can really consider not being here, but it is hard to be here some times too. Does that make sense? I don't want to be apart, but in the same breath I am really disappointed about how this has gone. There have been so many times that he stepped back and should have stepped up. Easy to see his short comings... I am sure he sees mine too.
(yes, I know I am not perfect...hard as it is to believe







...)

I think DH ran out the door for fear of what was and what might get stirred up again. I know he has had a hard time with me and my changes - emotionally and spiritually. (I have too!) I think it was a self preservation attempt on his part. The sad thing was I wanted to just say I felt bad and maybe had a hug, but he ran out the door before I had the chance. It makes me sad to think we have come to this. I hold back, he holds his breath... not a fun way to live.

It is our life though, for good or bad, through good and bad. I do have to keep in mind that he may have similar thoughts about me.

Is it good that your Mom is using a wheelchair in the house most of the time? Does it save her strength and energy for other things? I hope they are settling in alright. I hope the billing situation goes well, it would be unfortunate to have to cancel the surgery. tick tock...June 15 approaches fast.

Tan, I looked up the Norwegian Forest Cat... what a nice fluffy kitty!! I can picture her in my head, but second the request for pictures. I hope Tayga's therapy went well.















must go now...

M


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## lolalapcat

NOW I am going to bring my shovel, and stand guard at the door while you talk to us, Mich!

So your SIL is there too? How is that going? Can you get all 3 sibs to go out together for some bonding time?

Family togetherness. My Mom's crazy youngest sister is coming to visit this Friday, and may stay for several days. There is not enough vodka in the world that could get me through that, thank heavens she is staying 25 miles away from me!

It's nice that SOMEBODY realizes my Mom has a terminal disease (but really, all life is terminal...) and will come visit. But this is the aunt that bilked my Granddad for hundreds of thousands of dollars, so I doubt her integrity. My parents have money, after all.

Is it your sister's pregnancy that is driving the wedge between the two of you? Is it the snarky phone conversation? Would the conversation alone have done it, without the pregnancy existing?

Maybe send her a nice note. Bridge the gap without having to talk. And it will make you feel better about your own headspace. You can spend a couple of weeks congratulating yourself for reaching out!

Lastnight I talked with our charting trainer about the procedures, Doc with nasty bedside manner....I feel more reassured that this is the right path.

I asked DH if he would call insurance to check on precertification for the surgery, and to find out what they will cover, and I will call the hospital to find out what the whole thing will cost. You would have thought I just killed his dog. Big weenie. A phone call is the least he can do, since I'm getting flayed open again primarily due to his reluctance to adopt. Grrrrrrrrrr.

Mich, I totally get it. I don't want to leave, but I don't want to be here either.

New Goal: Spontaneously hug your DH at least 1x daily. I need to do that too, we seem to have gotten out of that habit. Or tell your DH that you need the hugs, every day.

Perhaps it's self preservation on his part? Maybe he can't listen to you talk about your sister's pregnancy because it hurts him too?

Hang in there. It is a phase.









Tan, I bought a yoga dvd. And ordered a Winsor pilates dvd. But I used to exercise in the morning, which is when I post here....I suppose I should try to get to bed earlier, so I can get up earlier.

Mom is in the wheelchair because it prevents falls. At least at the new house she can do laundry again---no stairs. The washer and dryer are wheelchair height, purely by accident. She is very happy to have no carpet, it makes it easier to get around.

Her left hand is starting to be affected. Dad will say to me every couple of weeks, "I think she is getting worse." Like there is any other alternative....

Just today. I'm going to get through just today, with flying colors. Perhaps I'll call the hospital, or dermatologist. Get something out of the way.

Take care, my friends!


----------



## Mammax4

Whack away my friend!!! I can understand the 'at a distance' and chatting to me while I type, but Reading what I am reading or writing.... how RUDE!!

SIL-







day 5.... no shower.... Other than that okay... off doing other things more than normal...

I will have a vodka while thinking of you this Friday, not that it will help you, but it might help me







just kidding. It is difficult to feel good around those 'vulture' types. Sorry for the less than pleasant discriptive. My maternal grandmother and aunt went through my mom's house and took anything of value right after she died. Quick enough that my Dad wasn't home from Cypress yet - and he made it there for the funeral. Disgusting really.

I don't have any worries about my relationship with my sister. It is a convenient pause at the moment, but will be picked up without issue again soon. I give her space when she gets cranky, she reaches out when she is done being cranky. Right now I don't need/want to hear about her pregnancy. I asked her to get some clothes sorted to send back to me. I want to have clothes on hand for fostering. She hasn't done that yet, so she doesn't want to talk to me - feels guilty. So, it is a comfortable silence that we share at the moment. No long lasting impact.

DH and I hug all the time. We kiss too and snuggle in bed. It's just now it feels more like habit than want. I need to get my head in a better space. I showed DH a new something I got and explained what it meant...he said that it made sense for all that we had been through. I could see his attempt at being considerate and worry that he might say something wrong.

I am still not certain that he really was close to the same page as me with the miscarriage. There are times when I think he has felt bad, but I don't know if he actually felt the loss.

I am sorry for your Dad, have you hugged him lately? or would that start the both of you crying? Perhaps he is stating the obvious in hopes that the reality will actually sink in. A little dazed by chance? Trying to wrap his head around all this while things are changing moment by moment. All the while trying to keep it together and be together for all of you.

I have a nice plastic child's shovel I could come and give your DH a little whack with it if you'd like. I'll light the big bonfire if you bring the big weenie! What is it with guys and phones? Hello... like we enjoy making those kind of calls???

Maybe it is a good thing the laundry facilities are at wheelchair height. It can help if a person can still do a bit of that stuff. Feeling useful is important when faced with physical changes like that.

Tan, are you too busy playing with tim-tam to write? or has she decided to help you at the computer like Jamie does?

I can't believe I have managed all of this without an audience. How good is that?? Thank goodness for hockey. I can't believe I said that!!

There will be a sibling (3 of 4 anyway) pub lunch possibly this weekend. SIL was planning with DH and BIL, but on the sly. I am not sure exactly what the purpose of that is, but think it is rude none the less. I am not my DH's keeper, they can go out for a sibling anything. Perhaps she thought I would assume I would be going too. Not so easy even if I wanted too. We have little pink here and one of us needs to be around. It is my turn on Friday. I am meeting a gf and going for dinner in town.

Anyway, I should go...don't want to encourage prying eyes...








Mich


----------



## Tan II

Hey M & K

5 days and NO shower ??????? That's just gross.

Mish, I relate to what u r saying. DH and I were actually talking about it today. It is so easy to fall into a rut and take each other for granted. I was saying to DH that lately we seem to co-exist. He does his thing, I do my thing, then we're with the kids. We never have time for ourselves. Time to have fun. It's not that we have a bad relationship, we just go from day to day not doing much as a couple.
Life ..... Who said everything had to be so hard and so much work. Marriage, kids etc.

Keri, I'm glad to hear u r on the right path. Yay.

Have u tried the yoga yet ?

I'm sure it is very scary for your dad. *big sigh* There are no words.....

I can hear Jamie is getting up to no good. Better go and see what he's doing. Probably emptying my handbag again !!

Chat soon
Tan


----------



## lolalapcat

Hi!

I'd be psycho, but I'm too tired. I go to bed earlier than usual, then have a harder time waking up. What the heck?

Tan, I would do the yoga dvd but I'd rather be here talking with you! I'm trying to get to bed earlier, so I can get up earlier.....

Mich, this too shall pass....the visit is nearly half way over. That is rude that they would plan an all-sib dinner and not even directly address you. Just say it! More weenies, get out the plastic shovel.

Are you going to tell us what you bought? It sounds meaningful. Only share if you want.

Yeah, I'm there too. Sometimes I feel close to DH, sometimes I really really don't. You can see why the divorce rate skyrockets after a couple loses a child, can't you? I don't know if there are any stats on m/c for this, I would imagine they are lower. But still, it really messes up a marriage. Mine is in a place I never would have predicted it would be.

Blech. I need a mental vacation. I'm now on a chaise lounge in a rowboat, floating on sun dappled water under mulberry trees. Birds singing, the scent of flowers blooming....

I too feel really sorry for my Dad. His burden is enormous. He's not a hugger, we reserve that for funerals. And miscarriages. I'll have a drink with him, that's his communal sharing kind of thing. Sit down with a cocktail and chat.

Back to the rowboat.

Tan, would you please send Jamie over here to clean out my handbag? My checkbook has been missing for a week and a half. Gone. Evaporated. No activity on the account, so it hasn't fallen into the wrong hands. Grrr. And I can't find my watch, I have to start the temp/pulse thing again today.

Ducks are swimming in the water, dragonflies darting through the air, big fluffy clouds in the sky....

Mich, I wondered if your sister had returned the baby clothes to you. People can get really funny about loaned things. My friend has had a cd case of mine, for the lyrics inside, for at least 2 years now. It was a new cd, I want the lyrics too! I don't even ask about it anymore.

You know, I am looking forward to my Aunt's visit. After 2 hours I will be ready for her to leave.

She has been a vulture, you aren't going to offend me by calling her that! At least my Granddad deducted the house he bought her and the $50K he gave to my cousin to save his house from being repossessed from her part of the inheritance, so she got very, very little money. AND he put a clause in the will that anyone who contested the terms would automatically forfeit their inheritance. Clever man, he understood family dynamics so well!

Is there no contact between you and your Mom's family? I know you mentioned there is no one left to ask questions....

People suck. It's a good thing I have the rowboat.

Blah, blah, blah. I'm done here! Mich, dish about your Friday plans! Tan, any more astrology classes?

Have a great day/night!


----------



## Mammax4

Cheers my friend, I am joining you for a drink! I hope Friday goes alright with the vulture Aunt. (terminology okay'd so used again) I bought a new bottle of Vodka today, happy to share if you want some. Your Grandpa was a smart man, good for him for doing as he did.

No, I don't have anything to do with my maternal relatives. I haven't spoken to my Grandmother since my sister got married 11 years ago. I haven't seen my Aunt since just after Dan was born, 14 years ago. The only one I hear from is my Grandpa, Mom's stepdad. We have a once a year at Christmas time call.

I emailed my sister today about the clothes. As I had suspected, she has not yet started to get organized. That works out alright as I have asked for more things to be included. Sister was in Calgary yesterday and had some spotting. She had an u/s and all looks good, best guess is cervical issues. She had cancer and surgery to fix it and has some long term issues now.

It was funny, we both were thinking about how neither of us has any sadness about today - both of us are disconnected from it. It was 27 years today that our Mother died. Crazy isn't it? I still keep food in low cupboards for little ones in the event it is my turn. Morbid I know, sorry.

I am sorry, I can't share any information about the new something I got. Not that I wouldn't want you to know, but I can't tell right now. Perhaps in a couple of weeks you will understand why.









I am going to a pub called 'Irish Times' on Friday night. I am going to my gf's house and we will walk down from there. Parking is a real pain in the butt downtown on the weekends. I have not been there before, but went by one day and the music that was coming out of there caught my ear, then the eye followed. My gf goes there regularly and really likes it. I on the other hand have no idea where a good place to go is. I have not been downtown on a weekend since I can't remember. We are such fuddy duddy's. Homebodies does sound so much better.

Day 6 and SIL had a shower. Yeah!! SIL is going out of town for Saturday night, so we will have a little less busy house then. BIL has started to (reluctantly) talk about his move. I have been talking him up about it...so proud taking that step...it will be good to get feet firmly planted on the ground... I am hoping that he will stay positive and focused on the move. I will help do that in what ever way I can, without looking like I am pushing him out the door of course. SIL told DH that BIL is having second thoughts. It has gone very well, it is days short of 10 months since he has been with us. He actually moved in the weekend before my m/c. That little tid-bit just popped into my head as I wrote that. <sigh>

I think DH and I need our space back. We have had someone here during the most stressful/chaotic time in our whole marriage. I think it will do us good to have our privacy back. In more ways than one!

I suppose I better get off to bed. The morning does tend to come early with little pink here. She is my 6am alarm, even on weekends or if she gets to bed late! Stinker!

Tan, how is Tim-tam? Have you locked up your handbag? I think you have to send a video of Mr. Jamie. I bet he is too funny to watch. Bit of a mischief maker is he? How is Tayga? How is his new teacher? still positive?

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Hi!

The power must have gone off lastnight, as my alarm clock didn't go off. It is late, I am bleary! Hope this second cup of coffee helps. Hmm, if I had a Little Pink I wouldn't have overslept!








I know you and your sister say you're not sad, but you should get a hug on this anniversary date anyway. I can't even imagine.....

It's not morbid at all to leave food in low cupboards. Life is unpredictable, the prepared survive.

It's nice that you get an annual phone call, at least. Your family has been blessed by devoted steps, haven't they?

I hope your sister is okay. She's had a really tough health history.

The Vulture Aunt probably won't be in until late today, and I will be leaving work a bit early today. A friend of ours is in the National Guard, stationed in Iraq, and is back for a couple of weeks. We will get together with him and his wife for drinks tonight. Now I feel like a copycat!

Ooooh, you should take your camera and email me a photo of your downtown! I love downtown areas of cities. But the parking keeps me from going locally, too! Have fun at the pub!

Oh, to be young and hip again. I used to know all the best spots, which bands to see....now I hope to get some time in the garden (the weeds are blooming!!!) and yearn to watch cooking shows on public tv on Saturdays. I collect cleaning appliances. I am Geek, hear me roar!

DH is busy all weekend, so I will have some alone time at the house, hooray! Oh crap, it was this weekend last year that we conceived #3. Hadn't thought of that yet. DH helps host this annual recreational shoot, and people come in from surrounding states (one from Manitoba, too). Last year he left the Sat. Night festivities because it was fertile time. I appreciated his devotion to the project! Sigh.

He won't be leaving early this year, which means I may get to watch an entire movie by myself. Novel!

As much as I yearn to have some alone time in my own house, I can't imagine how you have done it! Tan, you are evidence too, a person needs their own space. BIL isn't considering staying, is he? Isn't that option off the table? Fly, baby bird, fly!

I am ready for some sunshine. Overcast days are good--when I lived in the American Southwest I got tired of the relentlessly blue skies, there was no nuance to the light. But this is about to kill me. It's like 5 days, no sun. Reminds me of 1993, the year of floods. One entire month, July, no sun. Ugh.

Gotta take my insane self out of here. I have cookies to deliver for a church fundraiser.

Take care, friends!


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## Mammax4

I hope your copycat night was fun. Mine was great. The pub had live Celtic music - it was excellent! The food was great too. We went back to my gf's place after for a cup of tea and I didn't get home until 10pm. A very enjoyable evening for sure. I have told DH that the next time Little Pink's family has her for an over night, we should go down there and have a date.

They have a jam session on Sundays, I was thinking I should take my Dad next time they come. He plays a number of instruments - one of them is the accordion. I thought it was kind of dorky for him to pick that up, but must admit it sounds mighty good! He taught himself how to play and jams with other musicians when at work.

We have the sunshine that you ordered Keri. It is our first sunny day in a long while, it sure helps to be positive.

I will take some pictures of down town...perhaps that will be the tease that will inspire you to visit me!

I am sorry for your anniversary, it is crappy how so many things are intertwined with real life stuff.







Back to you my friend.

DH and I are anxiously awaiting the emptying of our house. We were talking yesterday about how we have had so many changes and challenges in the past year and have not had the privacy to allow us the freedom to deal with things. We have just had another 'something' heaped on our plate. I phoned my Mom today, it's her b-day, and she was on her way to the airport. My Grandmother was taken to the hospital at 2 am this morning. She fell and broke her hip. No word yet on when they can get her in for surgery. A common complication of a broken hip is pneumonia followed by death.

On that cheery note, I am going to pass the computer on to Will. He has been waiting very patiently for his turn. I emailed the families I work with to let them know I may have to leave unexpectedly.

I hope you are having lovely sunshiny days. I will check in later.









Mich


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## Tan II

Hey Mish

I hope your Gran is ok. Wishing her a speedy recovery.

Glad to hear u had a good night. Sounds like fun. Good for u that u have sort of made a date with dh !! Now u have to stick to it !

DH has been away this weekend. IT has been a brainstorming /w orking weekend for him. He is starting up a new company with 2 others. They are developing a product. So they have got lots to do before it can be launched. It is all very exciting. So he and his 2 business partners decided that a weekend away without interruptions would be a good idea. Whish it has been. They got a lot of work done. Good !!

The weekend hasn't been too bad. I thought it might be a bit hectic. The boys have been very good.

Keri I also had to do baking for a fundraiser !! Tayga's school is having a school fair today to raise money. One of the things they are doing is having a cake stall. So obviously they ask the moms to bake stuff for it. I made my famous meringues !! When I delivered them yesterday, the one mom there said she didn't think they would even make it to the stall today. She was going to buy them there and then !! Ha ha !

Waiting for Jamie to wake-up and then we'll go to the school fair. It looks like it might rain though.

Going to sort out lunch !

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Mich







I'll be keeping your Grandmother in my prayers. And I pray a lot! Do keep us posted. The new hip surgeries are so much less invasive, I'm hoping she gets a really good surgeon, and soon.

The Friday night out got rescheduled for this afternoon. And I forgot to mention that my Crazy Aunt is also flaky---she has canceled. Typical. I keep hoping the 50 year old will grow up.

Our basement floor drain was backing up again, so I called the plumbers and they were here within an hour, and didn't charge me anything. Very impressive! I rewarded them with cookies. Hopefully it's fixed now. More roots. Must tear out the offending shrubs.

We got some more stuff emptied out of my parents old house. It's starting to feel like the never ending project. Not a single room is completely empty. Dang.

Dad and I went mushroom hunting in the timber, which was fun except for the poison ivy and ticks! We had steaks for supper, with fresh mushrooms, asparagus I picked out of our garden and grilled eggplant. Yum. Then we sat on their new deck in the cool evening breeze, drinking coffee. It was a really nice, positive day.

Mich, if DH and I had someone else living in the house, I'm not sure if we would have had even a fraction of the conversations we have, where he has really opened up about his feelings, and he listened to me rambling on about my bruised, ugly, jealous, beaten-up heart. Most of those talks have erupted spontaneously, often when I am sitting right here...I will mention some subject we 3 are talking about, and Boom, he starts talking.

You definitely need your house back.

The Date Night sounds like a good idea, and the jam session with your Dad sounds like so much fun! That's great that he is musical.

Tan, that's funny that we were baking at the same time for the same reason! I went ahead and baked more cookies yesterday while the plumbers were here, so I could share them with people. And have some for breakfast!

Tell me more about these meringues.....

So I'm about to slather on some Liquid T Shirt and go work in the garden. The weeds are doing SO well, it's almost a shame to uproot their bumper crop! I've been really moody, I hope the sunshine will help.


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## Mammax4

Update on my Grandmother was good, although I worry it is a false sense of reality. My Grandmother had 2 blood transfusions as her hemaglobin was very low. She was getting hooked up for her 3rd as I was speaking to my Mom. My Mom was going on about how up and chipper my Grandmother was....I don't want to be a negative killjoy, but I wonder if it wasn't just the result of the transfusions and not how she really is. My Grandmother already has pneumonia and a chest infection. She has had the pneumonia for 3 months already. I am prepared to leave at a moments notice, although hoping that won't be the case. It has been hard to be here - I think I am the only one that isn't out there right now, although the others live with in 3 hours of my G-parents. (except my Mom)

We may be having our date night much sooner than anticipated. Little pink may be with her family this weekend. That would mean a sleep in for me... no 6am on the weekend. If so, we are going to have a date Friday night and then BIL and SIL are going to a party that we are going to graciously decline attending...that will mean that we have the house to ourselves for the evening!!! We haven't decided yet what we will do, but we will take advantage for sure. Perhaps get a movie we can all sit and watch. Something fun, but at home so we can enjoy the space! I am feeling more positive about him at the moment. We are making a little more time for each other and I think that may be helping.

I am going to need to temper my enthusiasm for less people living here as I don't want to get too far ahead of myself. I am finding now that I know the end is here, I am getting itchy feet...I want it to happen right now, not later! Breath.... it will come soon enough. It is supposed to anyway. BIL made a comment about being anxious and not knowing how the move out would be. We were talking with SIL about her return to us at dinner tonight, joking that we always have enough for an army. SIL joked that we did have one, and we said we could always adopt a few more. SIL then said that we shouldn't do that because she needed to have room here when she moved back.







:
NO, NO, NO...there will be no more of that by anyone!!! Of course if BIL comes to us and says he want to come back, I am sure we will have a hard time sticking to that. DH said we will have to make the soon to be spare room in to a bedroom for one of the kids, even if it is temporary.

I baked cookies last week and took them to the Engineer that has been helping us with the municipal building inspector. The office was suddenly filled with cookie consumers before I was heading out the door.

Keri, I have a few weed pullers here, I could send them down to help you if you want. One of them can even mow the lawn! (much to his dismay..)

What do you think is making you moody? Too much in your head and not enough sharing? Too much anniversary and surgery pressures? How is the quest for cost coming? Has your DH stopped being a weenie yet? It must be a guy phone hating thing. Unless it is their passion, they don't want to talk on the phone about anything.

Tan, how did the school fair go? I love going to those, the kids just have soooo much fun. Was yours with a cake walk and fishing and bingo and things like that? Is one of your DH's partners the one with the wife you have spoken about before? How is that all going? How is Tim-tam?

My brain is on fire, I left our taxes to the last minute. I was expecting Little Pink to be away before the end of the month, so I procrastinated.... I am off to rest my weary self.

I was going through some receipts today and came upon one for prenatal vitamins. It was weird seeing that, not too sad. It did remind me that we are coming up on the positive pg test day.

Have a good day.








Mich


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## lolalapcat

Mich, I got a package today!







I won't talk about it until Tan gets hers....

Wow, your Grandma already has pneumonia? Why for 3 months?

Getting older bites. It's just nasty to know that someone's body is ceasing to function the way it should.

Maybe the fresh white cells will do a bang-up job of boosting your Grandma's immune system, while the reds are giving her a blood high....

Maybe you should go there?

Okay, are you and your DH filling the role of his parents? Why do the IL's have it in their heads that they can live with you, anytime and possibly _indefinitely_?!? BIL NEEDS to be on his own. SIL can NEVER move in. Set some unmoveable boundaries! You can help without hosting!!! AArrrrrghhh!

Your marriage needs the space, your family needs the space. You have sacrificed enough.

I'm in moving mode. Must get passport. I will get them out!

I am sore from weeding the garden. Previously unused muscles are protesting. Our visit with friends lastnight was very, very enjoyable. I miss them. The weekend flew by, I need another day. My to-do list exceeds the amount of time I have.

Part of the moodiness is hormonal, part is worry about surgery, finances, Mom, and other burdens, part is lack of sleep, part is lack of fun. Can't do anything about hormones or Mom, can make some phone calls about finances, can go to bed earlier, can schedule in more fun.

My head is okay. You did well with the prenatal vitamin receipt....I actually looked in the baby section of a store last week, thinking of something I could get for the godson. Isn't it amazing, what we can now do? It's like our coping skills are being restored. Or our sanity!







Yeah, right.

Tan, that's exciting that your DH is starting a business! Keep us posted!

I don't want to, but I'm gonna go join the world. Wish me luck!


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## Mammax4

Good Luck Keri!

Was the world good to you? Were you able to speak with someone about the medical expenses? What other burdens are you dealing with? Everyday drain back-ups etc? More? You haven't unloaded in a while, perhaps your head needs a little decluttering?

tee hee, Tan... you should be early next week at the latest. Hey, where are you by the way? Busy with the next fundraiser? How is movie night coming along?

Yes, my Grandmother has had pneumonia for the last 3 months. Why? I'm not sure. Bad dr - bad patient??

I spoke to my sister today, twins are good no more problems. Sis was saying it was Grandma's femur that broke, just below the ball of the hip. The break has been pinned. Grandma had very low bp and hemaglobin which, they think, resulted in her fall. She has been to the hospital 3 other times for low bp/fainting problems.

The surgeon said that Grandma will not be able to weight bear anything on that leg for 4 months. The geriatric specialist has said that she is 'very concerned' about my Grandma. There are many things going on with Grandma, all at the same time combined with the broken hip are not good. Grandma's blood transfusion seems to have lost the perking effect. She is not able to carry on conversations, extremely tired and sometimes delusional.
All that, and my Mom says she is doing well. Mom is hearing, but not accepting what is really going on.

It doesn't make sense to go out there now. There is nothing I can do.

I think Will has decided to give me some type of stress related health issue. He brought up living with us 2 different times today. The second time was at the dinner table and he was talking about how Uncle BIL was going to live with us forever and Auntie SIL would live here too. Hmmm...I should ask him if they are paying him.... No more dinner for that boy! He will be eating at 4pm and then straight to bed so he can't have anymore of these conversations!!!








No encouragement to IL's needed!!

More fun.... what are you going to do? Set aside for fun this weekend, even if only a little time can be spared. I feel almost spoiled with the potential of a date with DH on Friday night and no IL's on Saturday night.

Tan, are you having any time for fun? How is your sis? Have they settled into their new home alright?








...


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## lolalapcat

oh my, are the hormones raging.

Our computer at home told us 'hard drive failure is imminent', so now I have to sneak in time to type at work. Like we need that right now, grrr.

The hospital hasn't called me back (I left a message this morning), so I'm not sure what their total charges are going to be on the surgery. DH has found out that our insurance will start covering everything after $5500 out of network, if we can get the surgery precertified. So it's less of a mess, but still a mess. We can afford $5500, I guess.

Going to Skin Doc on Thursday for more scrape and burn. I'll talk to him about some proactive treatment for other little suspicious spots, rather than waiting for them to get big enough to....scrape and burn off. That seems like a dumb strategy.

I am in a capitally foul mood, in case you can't tell. And what really sucks is that I know it will be better when AF starts. I hate hormones. It's usually no where NEAR this bad.

Sigh. I am such a lunatic.

Yes, Will definitely needs to be deprogrammed. Have they been feeding him propaganda? Strange.

So is the broken femur less of an issue than a broken pelvis, or are they about equal? That's a major bone, poor woman. It does sound as though her health is very compromised. Your poor stepmom, it doesn't sound like she is able to process reality. It's just a tough situation.

Well, unfortunately I have to get back to work. I'll check in as I have time...I don't know if we can prioritize a new computer when we already have medical bills piling up. But the computer is my sanity lifeline.

Thanks for listening to the rantings of a madwoman.


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## Tan II

Hi Guys !!!

I don't know where the days go to. The time difference also makes it hard.

I can't beleive tomorrow is thursday already. It's scary how quickly the weeks go by.

The week has been good. Tayga has been good. Except yesterday he gave his therapist a taste of his defiant behaviour. Good, she needs to see what I am talking about.
He might join a drama therapy group (did i tell u?). We are having a meeting with them on monday. It's up to them if they feel he is the right candidate for the programme. I hope so.

Jamie is a cutie. Trying hard to walk. He has also started copying more words. Very cute !

My sister is doing well. Settling in nicely.

Mish how is your Granma doing?

Keri, you strangled anyone lately ? Ha ha ! I hope u r feeling less stressed. Even though your stresses are so out of your control.

Better carry on with the laundry. Why does the washing basket never seem to empty ?

Chat soon
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi Tan!

Time does fly. I'm pleased it is Wednesday already, come on, Saturday!

We now have plans to meet our friends at our favorite Mexican restaurant for Cinco de Mayo. It's a minor Mexican holiday, but a great excuse to have a margarita!

Allright for Tayga, for showing the therapist what you have been talking about! It's like taking the car to the mechanic, and the car stops misbehaving while it's there.

Has the therapist been making some progress? Anything you can detect? Let us know if he is accepted in the drama therapy group, fascinating.

I love toddlers. It must be so fun to watch Jamie trying to acquire new skills! Does he have any favorite words?

We'll see our godson on Saturday. I keep trying to teach him English!

I haven't strangled a single person! Hooray, me. Yesterday was just one of those days, I overslept, spilled my coffee, pinched my arm with the car door lock, my car didn't want to start, the first customer I spoke to interrupted every single thing I said, my Mom called to nag me.....it just went on and on. The universe and I were out of synch. I just wanted to run away.

It seems to be better today. Overslept again. But I was up very late burning back up cds of all the photos and documents on the computer. Now it can die, I won't lose anything but money! The photos, those are the important things.

I've taken care of most of the hospital stuff now, have all the preop appts made, have preregistered. Now I have to call and see if my insurance has precertified the surgery. I'll check with my clinic first, they should know.

Our insurance should cover 100% of the surgery. I feel sorry for our insurance. Bills, bills, bills. We take rash advantage of the coverage. For years I went to the doctor 1x a year, for a check up. Not now!

Mich, your silence makes me nervous....is it your Grandma?

I have to go out there. Sigh. I'll talk to you tomorrow. So far the sickly computer is still letting me play, so I'll keep hoping for the best!


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## Mammax4

prying eyes kept me silent...I will post tonight I hope. Grandma is still here, I don't know exactly how she is as what I get is a watered down version...I wish I could talk to the Dr's there.

Have a good day. Sorry you had such a nasty one yesterday Keri. Good for Tayga to show his 'other' side to the therapist.

Mich


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## Tan II

Hi !!

Mish I got your parcel. I've emailed you a thank you, but 'thank you' again !!! I love it !
One day when we meet, we can identify each other with our shirts !!

Keri I'm glad to hear that your insurance will cover most of the surgery. That's one less stress to think about.
How are you feeling ?

Mexican. Yum. I haven't had Mexican in ages.

Jamie does say some words, like Mama, dada, Tayga, kitty, car, here, no. I'm sure there are more, I just can't think of them. He has taken to calling me "mom-mom" lately. It's very cute !

I have got the family coming over for dinner tonight, so I better get moving. Got to tidy the house and start cooking.

Have a great weekend. Mish, I hope you and dh have a great date. Have too much wine









CHat soon
Tan


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## Mammax4

Hello!

Glad you got your parcel Tan. They are kind of fun aren't they. I am very proud of myself for not spilling the beans. I am not so good at that when I have a surprise for someone. I get too excited!

My Gram had a very bad day yesterday. The yo-yo is no fun. It is taxing on the family having such extremes. My Mom and my Aunt were having a nasty argument yesterday...my other Aunt thought they were going to get into a fist fight. Horrid what stress can do to people.

I jabbed my click pencil lead into my right index finger....there is lead still stuck in there. Can either of you fix it for me?? I am the operation performer here, others have vision issues. DH said he could try and dig it out for me, as long as I didn't mind him barfing in the toilet a few times. What-a baby!









I hope you can hold off on the computer repairs Keri. Imminent failure doesn't sound good. I am glad to hear that your insurance is covering you - too bad it doesn't start until you have spent so much money already.

We aren't going to be able to have our date as planned, change in Little Pink's schedule. We will get some family time though. That will be nice. Practice for our very near future...once everyone else is in their own home. My Dad phoned me from his work, he was even commenting on how it was time for us to get our home back to our selves. He greeted me with 'Do you know your Sister is having twins? Don't you two know how to stop? Do you have some news for us too?' I replied that we had already taken care of that, it was impossible. He apologized for bringing that up. I know he felt bad, he was teasing and knows how baby lusty I always am. (will be)

I found the cutest winter snowsuits, in pink, when I was shopping last night. I bought two of them as I am up to my eyeballs in gestat-ers. They have Winnie the Pooh on them...I love those characters. They were such a good deal, I couldn't leave them in the store. Do either of you have Mountain Equipment Co-op? They have very cute stuff for little ones too.

Any luck on confirming precertification? How do you take advantage of your coverage? Is it free? Just think of this as using up all your stored credits from only one visit per year before!! When do your pre-ops start? I guess not too long from now.

Keri, you have mentioned trying to teach your Godson English, is he learning a different one? or is it instead of the baby talk? Does he use sign language at all? It is a great way to communicate when he is pre-verbal.

Tan, I hope all goes well with the drama therapy group, I will keep my fingers crossed that Tayga gets in. I imagine that could be very helpful for some children, and adults too!

It has been a long day my friends, it started when I misread the alarm clock...thought it said 5:30 and it was really 6:30..... have a great weekend. I will talk to you later.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

I'm sorry your family is battling at this time, Mich. It happens in my family too. Poor verbal skills, so they find a way to express things without words.

Ouch. Your Dad's comment....poor guy was just trying to be funny.

You are being pretty chatty while dropping bombshells. How is your head? Spill it, woman! (You were out shopping for baby clothes????)

I have pencil lead in my hand from a billion years ago. Digging for it sounds a bit extreme, I'd leave it! That's funny that would put your DH over the edge. Are women born with stomachs of steel?

Yes, everything is a go for the surgery. DH pays about $550/month for our insurance, his company kicks in an equal amount. That's health, vision, dental, life, disability...all the insurance. It will cover most of the surgery, from my experience last year. We'll have to pay $150 here, $75 there, some random bills.

How am I feeling? I have to look at the surgery as good for my long term health, rather than as a chance to have a successful pregnancy. If it was just for the childbearing, I don't think I could do it. I've done enough. The games I have to play with my own brain...

My only preop appt is on June 7, surgery is the 15th, followup is I think the 21st. That's when we will view the movie. Yes, the movie. Of my innards.

I have to keep myself from thinking that all this money could be going towards adoption, which is more of a sure thing than pregnancy with us.

So I'm not going to think of it.

No, my godson isn't learning ANY languages right now. I want him to start talking! More than 'mama' and 'dada'. I was thinking 'Keri' would be a good one, but I've actually been working hard on 'beans' and 'milk'.

I love the idea of baby signing! I just need a baby to try it on! I am not around GJ enough to have that kind of opportunity.

That's fun that Jamie is making up his own name for you, Tan! The way their brains work, it is so amazing!

Oh, and we will know each other in person by the gravitational pull, you silly! Although the matching RL shirts will help!

My throat is sore. I have to go to work early. Erg.

You both have a good weekend also! Have a good family night, Mich! I'll check in, but the weekend keeps getting busier and busier.


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## lolalapcat

Our computer still isn't dead, hooray! I'm thinking it is a drama queen at this point.

And the little mini-headcold is pretty much gone. One day of sneezing, one day of sore throat, one day of itchy throat....that's not a bad way to have a cold!

The weekend has been really nice so far. We got lots of quality time with friends and godson lastnight. Little GJ has learned to touch my hair and earrings and not pull, woohoo!

Must continue with laundry and cleaning, then off to help my brother pack more junk at my parents' old house. Still no end in sight!

Hope your weekends are going well. Mich, how did it feel to have just your immediate family (and little pink too!)


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## Mammax4

The baby clothes was an accident. I went into the dept. to buy Little Pink some pj's. I saw a rack with some winter pj's that were on sale, so I went over there. The winter snowsuits were too good a deal to pass up. I am a collector of many things on sale....yes, even some baby stuff from time to time. I have not done that for a long time.

I dug the lead out of my finger myself. I couldn't leave it in there, it was too irritated and I didn't want it to get infected. Task complete! I should have been a nurse! I would love to watch a movie of my insides, that would be too cool.

We didn't get our date, as the bigger boys were gone all day. No built in babysitter... Dan and Chris were gone all day yesterday, they came home from their friend's house at about 10pm. Will went to a b-day party yesterday and had lots of fun. Little Pink was gone last night too, she had a sleep over with family. So, almost no one else in the house. I got a sleep in today too.

I was going to go to Vancouver today, with a gf, last minute plan we made but changed our minds. I might go in two weeks with my gf - destination IKEA. I am going to go to a pub for lunch with gf instead...they have the most amazing curried chicken wrap. YUM! Two pub meals with gf's in just over a week...wow!

Glad to hear that your cold was short lived. Immune system on steriods? Considering all the stress and hustle and bustle going on for you right now, that is spectacular that you are well so quickly.

Have you had anymore discussions with your DH about adoption? If yes, how did it go? Did he read any of the information that you got?

BIL/SIL & DH have almost finished the stairs up to the deck. We have estimates coming tomorrow for the railings. Bit by bit, almost done... soon, soon!

Tan, I am wondering how you are doing. You have been unusually quiet lately. Are you doing okay? Hiding because of a busy head or just having a busy life?

I must go and get ready for my lunch date. I hope you have had a good weekend.

Talk later. One IL gone Monday am, so it will be less complicated to be here.

Mich


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## Tan II

Hi !!

Keri I hope u r feeling better. Colds are the worst. They make u feel so crap. Drink lots of black tea with honey for your throat. I also suffer with sore throats.

Mish I love IKEA too. It's the kind of store you go in for 1 item, and leave with 20 !! Sounds like fun !

I am good. Busy life, not busy head !! Head seems to be in a good place !









It's been a busy day. Going to shower and watch some tv !

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan, I'm jealous of your unbusy head! That's wonderful!

Ooooh, IKEA...when we are in Detroit in July I get to go to one! It has been a few years.

Mich, you are going socially crazy! Lunches with girlfriends, what a beautiful thing.

One IL down, one to go! Slowly, normalcy is starting to creep into your life...

Congrats on the lead extraction! Ouch, you are tough.

Immune system on steroids, I think that may be the case for someone with an autoimmune disease...or it's haywire!

Echinacea and vitamin C work really well on me for stopping colds. And I spent my childhood and young adulthood being sick a lot, so I think I have some actual immunity built up. This is my first headcold in I think 3 years. Now they never last longer than 5 days, whereas they used to last 2 weeks or more when I was younger.

Tan, I do drink lots of tea, but I need to get more honey. I've been using turbinado sugar, which is yummy.

I haven't done any adoption research---my free time has been highly compromised lately. And now that I obsess over my Mom and her condition, it gives me less time to obsess about my own life. I'm not sure that is a good thing, but it's a change of pace!

We made extremely good progress on emptying the folks' old house yesterday. Oh, is my brother the King of Action! He got so much done Saturday, it was remarkable. There may be an end in sight!

Today is a busy one at work, I should go there!


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## Mammax4

I was so excited this morning, I almost signed on just to type _one down, one to go!_







I am glad to have more of our space back, and am looking forward to all of our space back soon. Date still unknown. I have set myself an end of June expectation, that way I am less likely to be overly impatient. It has gone well, I am glad we did it, but I am looking forward to DH and family time.

My Gram was moved into another wing of the hospital, there is a superbug going around in the ward she was in. She seems to be hanging in there. My Mom and Aunts are continuing to go at it with each other. It is not pleasant from the sounds of things... family...you can't live with them and well, in moments of stress, you can't even like them sometimes! This is a practice for them - how to problem solve and get along during extreme duress. They are not doing so well.

My head is good. I have lots of stuff to do in the next while. I have some courses that I put on hold that I have to get back to. That will keep me busy for a while. We are back at some of the house stuff. Quotes for work to be done on the house and inspections to be organized...the normal 'life' stuff. I am even managing okay with the 3 pg Mom's I see every weekday. I don't want to see my sister though. That says it aint over yet to me. I was a bit under the weather on the weekend. I think I am fighting off something. Need more sleep and less stress. Perhaps I could win the lottery! That would reduce the stress wouldn't it???

How is your Mom doing Keri? Are your parent's enjoying the new house? How did your DH's annual shooting event go? How was the dermatologist appointment? Did he manage to scrape and burn all he needed too? And you say I'm tough....

How is your sister and her family Tan? How's DH's new business coming? Does it keep him busy for longer hours than before?

I am going to hop in bed and read a book I think. Perhaps I will make this one an early night.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Woohoo! Keep up the good work! Reclaim your space!

Your grandma is tough, Mich. Superbugs scare the heck out of me, as do germs in hospitals. TB is making a huge antibiotic resistant comeback. Tuberculosis! Scary. The fighting sisters should settle down and keep watch, making sure everybody who comes into your Gram's room washes their hands!

What courses are you taking? What else on the house are you having done? Still the backyard?

Hopefully being around the pregnant moms is getting you tempered for being around your sister....

My head is too busy, as usual. My Dad is having a hard time, so that is tough...I don't know how to help, other than just listen.

He went to a work related conference over the weekend, and word about Mom's diagnosis got around, so lots of people were coming up to him to have the 'I'm so sorry, is there nothing they can do?' conversation. And he spoke to friends on the phone yesterday, and told them...they are Navajo, and will be focusing on Mom's illness while at a powwow this weekend. That made Dad cry, which made me cry. And a woman from their church who moved out of state stopped by yesterday, asked about Mom and burst into tears. For the love of Pete, how are we supposed to make it through the day, people!!!

Important life lesson here. When hearing bad news, don't put the people with the burden in the position of having to comfort you. I'm getting the urge to smack people, and tell them to get a grip.

Stress, yes. Yoga. Must open dvd. I just read that multiple periods of meditation throughout the day can lower blood pressure. Like 3 minutes at a shot. I can come up with 3 minutes to breathe deeply and say a little prayer, work on clearing the head...

Oh, the answers: Mom is doing okay. Thank heavens the stupid grab bars finally got here yesterday--she really could use them in the bathrooms. Thanks for asking.

Yes, they are enjoying the new house. But it's kind of echo-y in there, so tv volume is an issue. Curtains will help with the noise.

No scrape and burn---Skin Doc gave me a topical medication that will eat my flesh. Okay. Theoretically it will cause my immune system to attack the cancer. 2 applications so far, and it's starting to tingle. Oh, the fun. But at least there was no smoke!

How did the going to bed early work for you? I must try that!

Tan! Tell us about your busy life when you get a moment!


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## Mammax4

There is the 'knows it all' sister that is as unreliable as unreliable can ever be. She wants to do what she 'knows best' and it is causing a don't fix what aint broke panic by the other sisters. My Mom actually said 'that' aunt made my Grandpa cry by telling him she was going to go in there and basically take over and tell the staff how to do their job.

I am taking Foundations and Curriculum for Early Childhood Education. 3 different ones, plus I have one more assignment and exam to write in another one. No sense having a few minutes for doing nothing! Idle hands are .... no wait, it's the idle mind that is the trouble!









I don't anticipate seeing my sister, unless we do get together at Christmas time. We saw them for 2 weeks last summer, so that will probably be it until ??. We'll have to see.

Sorry your Dad was so overwhelmed by so many people. It is hard to have to tell the story over and over again. I am sorry for the both of you; people don't think about how their expression of grief effects the direct family. I will file that away myself. I have thought of at least once where I was one of those people.

I must get off, Dan is waiting for his turn.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Hi!

Mich, doesn't your control freak aunt know that when things are out of control, you bake? You don't tell the doctors what to do, make some damn banana bread! I know I'm not the only one who does this, she should try it.

How can she sleep at night, knowing she made her Dad cry? eeek.

Is your Grandma avoiding the Superbug? Have they corrected the broken femur, or are they waiting for the pneumonia to subside?

Hmmm. So are you learning stuff you already know, or does it give you a different perspective? Given your life history, it seems you could be teaching the classes! Working towards a degree, or does this have to something to do with foster parenting?

I thought idle minds was the goal....ones not so busy with re-re-reprocessing junk. Not that I do that!







:

And don't feel bad, I've been in those shoes also, reacting badly to bad news from others. It's a brand new perspective---I now know that I need people to be strong and exhibit some faith and acceptance when they hear about The Diagnosis. I tend to do a fair amount of comforting of people. Maybe that's what I need to convince myself it's gonna be all right.

Holy Crap, I'm one of those people that WANTS to hear platitudes! Must go chew on this for a while.

Flesh Eating Medicine now is making my nose itch. Still better than scraping and burning!

Has Will stopped his propaganda campaign? How's Little Pink?

Tan? Hi! Miss you!


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## Mammax4

It is amazing and sad how stress can make people do not so nice things. I am not sure how Aunt could be okay with her actions, not only was Grandpa crying, but Grandma was worried about Aunt rocking the boat - and asked Aunt not to. (Speaking of being taken care of by people that should be the ones being taken care of...)

Grandma has avoided the Superbug...so far so good. She is having some of her other issues dealt with while she is in hospital too, so it is a good thing. They actually did surgery on her hip on the Sunday after she was brought in. She is doing physio stuff and will be put somewhere for rehab as her next move, once her other things are sorted out.

The courses are largely rehashing of known information. (theory and practical experience) I am now going to finish them because I have paid for the courses already, I don't know if I will do anything more with them or not. I don't know if I want to continue down the path I was going now. These courses certainly won't hurt with the Fostering, but I don't know if I am going to take more than I have already paid for.

Idle minds.... oh what a luxury that would be - wouldn't it? Just thinking about all the things on my mind at the moment makes me tired!! Not anything important by the way, just regular house stuff. You all ready know about Grandma.

I am not sure I like the sounds of flesh eating medicine... I might take the smoking skin... but that could be because I don't know any better. Does it hurt?

Will is no longer participating in the 'give Mom high blood pressure' campaign. (thank goodness!) I guess I could release him from the bed time by 5pm restriction hey!







Just kidding - I can't even imagine what insane hour he would be up at if I did really put him to bed at 5pm. It was a little stressful to have him opening a discussion that we did not want to have with SIL though. That is not a possibility for us and to have to get into that with her could have been dicey.

Little Pink is doing well. I just had to settle her back in, which is unusual. She has fit in without any real issues at all. Will is too cute with her sometimes, really obnoxious with her sometimes too. I think he likes to have someone younger than him around the house, that she is a girl fits right into the plan he had. I wonder if the feeling of a piece missing ever goes away. It makes me sad a bit seeing Will - how he enjoys Little Pink. He knew even before I tested that I was pg. He spoke often about his little sister. *sigh*

Tan, please save Keri from having to deal with stinky old me all the time!







Hope you are doing well, I am glad to hear it is your life - not your head - that is so busy. Did Tayga get into the drama therapy? How are his sessions coming? How about you and your DH? Have you noticed a decrease in stress with the new techniques you are learning?

Must tuck in now... the attempt at early to bed a few days ago didn't work too well.

Mich









Keri - ya gotta know I wasn't implying that you think I'm stinky...I do shower every day afterall


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## lolalapcat

Hi!

Mich, it sounds like your Grandma is doing much, much better. Prognosis?

People are freaky when under stress. Haven't you been paying attention to me?







Seriously though, I hope your aunt does some self assessment after this, and realizes she has caused pain. The lack of self-awareness is stunning.

Of course there will always be an empty spot in your home, where baby 4 was supposed to be. It must be poignant to watch Will interact with a younger 'sibling'.

Does Will ever sense other things? I really believe we are born perceptive, and lose a lot of it as we grow up. I don't know how you can foster that ability.

You will use the info you learn in the classes no matter your path in life, just like I use my social work background in a million little ways, without fully realizing it. Learning is a good thing.

And here I thought I was the stinky one you were stuck with, Mich! I'm definitely still a basket case. Head is busy.

Flesh eating medicine isn't bad, so far. The spot I've been treating itches a bit. 5 days of medication, 2 days off, for 6 weeks....week 1 has been a cake walk. I'm also treating a little spot on my forehead that looks suspicious.

Oh, the winner is zinc oxide! Sunscreen that doesn't make the skin around my nose and eyes burn. THAT is a life improvement!

I'm almost relieved that the surgery is 4 1/2 weeks away. I want it over with.

On the very upside, I had a local customer stop in yesterday with a friend, and we all stood around and talked for 2 hours---it was fun! The local customer lost his wife to cancer a few months ago, and is a bit lonely, so stops in more regularly. He is inspirational, he is in such a state of peace.

Gotta go, the day is unfolding before me...


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## Tan II

Hello my friends !

I've been running here and there. Not having much free time at home !! Got to go on the comp when Jamie is sleeping, but have had to do other stuff at that time. Then been busy at night too !

Tayga starts the drama group on monday. We had his 'interview' on monday, and it obviously went well. There are only 6 kids in the group, so they look for certain dynamics.
It should be good. Less confronting that one on one therapy.

Mish, how's your Grandma ? How the rest of the fam ? Still driving u mad ?

Keri, how's your nose ? Flesh eating medicine, sounds scary.

My eyes have been sore, which is also why I've had a break from the comp. I went to the optomotrist. I have dry eyes. Have to take a break from my lenses, and put drops in every 3 hours. They feel scratchy, burny and sore.

Going to friends for dinner tonight. It should be a fun evening.

Anything special planned for the weekend ?

Chat soon
Tan


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## Mammax4

Keri, did you notice Tan didn't comment on our stinkiness?? Maybe she can't smell us from Australia. <phew!!> Lucky hey!

Glad to hear Tayga made it into the drama group. Most impressive for only 6 participants. What dynamics do they look for ... all the same or complimentary? Are you getting busy with some of DH's new business? Sorry to hear your eyes are sore...the computer is definately NOT an eye friendly device.

Grandma's prognosis is good. She is doing much more for herself and having physio to keep her mobile. It sounds like the planning and worry were for naught.

Will is tuned in to me - like radar. He has an uncanny ability to read me at a deep level.

Keri, what is going on in your busy head? I know the 'general' stuff, but more specific? The surgery is coming up fast and furious isn't it? I too am glad for you that it was bumped up. In the blink of an eye, it will all be over. Where is your head in all of that? Are you feeling resentful of DH in all of this? Are you both on the same page with the surgery? Is DH looking at this with more eye to your state?

I am off to bed. Not really early, but a little early for me. I am working on getting sick - sore throat for a few days and now a cough coming. Poor Will said his throat hurt tonight, he said he would have to eat noodles and yogurt tomorrow...nothing 'wooden'. Wooden means firm... makes sense. Nibble-y is the wrinkles you get on your fingers and toes when you have been in water for a while. Funny hey?

Mich


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## lolalapcat

:

Hmm, Tan, my eyes are the same way. Mine's just spring allergies though. It will get better in a couple of weeks, then I won't have any problems until August or September. Hope yours get better!

Mich, echinacea, vitamin C, some zinc and REFUSE to get sick. It works for me. My brother swears by Airborne, do you have that there? And they have a version for kids.

I love Will's language! Nibble-y, now I need to soak in the tub so I can use that one!

Interesting that he is so in tune with you. More so than Chris or Dan have been? Is it the age, or the person?

I want someone to be in tune with me, that would be nice. Someone that would say, "you seem a little insane today, here's a glass of wine."

DH is confused about the surgery. He doesn't realize that he has me kinda backed into a corner, since he has developed this ambivalence about adoption. How can he NOT know that I feel like my choices are limited?

But I suppress that resentment most of the time. It's why I have worked so hard on thinking about the surgery as good for my long term health, which it will be if it permanently addresses the endometriosis. Yep, that's right. Good for me.

It really grates on me that he is so blase about me having surgery, but he will talk for 3 years about needing to go the the optometrist, but won't go. Grrr.

Yes, I want it over with. Now.

My head is busy with parental stuff, too. Mom is getting close to the point where it would be good for someone to be around all the time. She falls far less at the new house (no carpet, in the wheelchair) but the last time she did fall, she had a very hard time getting back up.

I'm pretty sure it would kill my Dad to be around her 24/7. She has been pretty nasty for a couple of days now, I'm surprised he even goes home.

It is too soon to tap into the long term care insurance. I think it covers 2 years, and her prognosis is 2-5 years. It's an interesting game to play, to try to utilize what is paid for, but not use it up too soon.

Dad is shopping for a wheelchair accessible van. The sooner the better, but he now wants to buy a van and modify it....like he has the time and energy to do that! They've been very spendy with money over the last few years, and I don't quite understand why this very important item is the thing he's dragging his feet on.

I resent everybody, apparently. Hmm. That's a problem.

Mich, I am pleased to hear that your Grandma is doing so well! Hopefully she is cured of all latent issues (like pneumonia!) and will be better than before.

Tan, that's awesome that Tayga got into the Drama Therapy group! Keep us posted. How's school going?

I'm out of coffee. I think that means it's time to go!

Sorry I put my stinky self all over our thread! It was an ucky brain day.


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## Tan II

I have a nose peg on, that's why I haven't commented on your stinkiness !!!! Ha ha !

Mish, I hope u and Will are feeling better. No sore throat and coughing please ! It's probably allergy - don't u think ? All the pollen in the air.

Tayga calls freckles - Frinkles !! The cute things they come up with !

Keri, a glass of wine everytime u r insane. Do u think that's wise ??????? Ha ha ! Throw the glass away and just drink out the bottle









Keri, I'm sure you feel like switching off the noise in your head at the moment. Things sound really hectic. Do u feel like you want to say to someone "switch off this ride, I want to get off".

Maybe your Dad is dragging his feet on the van, because once he gets it everything becomes real. Denial. It's a great place to be, I know. It must be really hard and scary for him to watch the women he loves and has known for so long be so frail. I'm sure it is for you and your brother too.

I don't blame u for being angry at the world. So many things are out of your control, and there is no-one to shout at. Things u have no choice but to accept and make peace with, with not many options.

I wish I had a solution for you.

Tayga is doing ok at school. Good days, bad days, amazing days, not so amazing days !! It's all up and down. His teacher and I are learning to understand him better, so it makes it easier to avoid stubborn behaviour ! Got a catch up meeting next week to get more insight and strategies.

Tomorrow is Mother's day. Always a bitter-sweet day. Happy for what I have, and sad for those I have lost.
DH and the boys always make it special.

Off to shower and read in bed.

Have a great weekend.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan, you are funny!

Thanks for not commenting on our stinkiness!

Yes, I want someone to stop this ride and let me off. You've obviously been there, you know....

But here I go, I think it's the tilt-o-whirl or some other spinning ride. I'm a little loopy from it!







:

Yes, my Dad is in denial. Their neighbor works for a home healthcare agency, unbeknownst to me, and she spoke with Dad for an hour yesterday. He is now thinking about things differently. Bless that woman!

And Tan, you know the solution....just keep going. It will get uglier before it gets better, but it will get better. We must endure, until the sun shines again.

Hahaha, I should just go with the whole bottle of wine! But no one has volunteered to keep track of my moods, and ferry the bottles to me as needed. I'm picturing a little red wagon full of bottles, and someone following me around dragging it. That would work! Must train dog, he's my best bet.









I'm really happy to hear that you and Tayga's teacher are working together, and it's helping! That's soooo much better than the last teacher.

Yeah, Mother's Day must be kind of hard without your Moms.
Tan








Mich:









All these happyhappy holidays that seemed so innocuous, and are now loaded with bittersweet undertones....but only a little, hopefully. Soak up everything your boys and husbands will give!

DH and I went on a real date lastnight, dressed up and went to eat, then shopped for veggie plants for the garden. Okay, so it wasn't going out dancing, but it was something! Today we are going to buy cukes and pepper plants and get them planted, and go target shooting with the pistols. He's really excited, me, eh.

Gotta scoot. Lots of things on the agenda for today, and tomorrow is cooking for Mom and moving/cleaning at their old house. Ah, the fun.

Take care, friends.


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## Mammax4

A quick hello... too many days not posting...

Keri, I am glad to hear you had a real date with your DH! Good for you...dressed up even !! Sometimes it is easier to *hear* things from people we are not related to. Your Dad's neighbor - blessed be those without familial baggage during times like this - is a great resource, I hope he will use her as one. (more than once) I hope that you had some time to relax this weekend...cooking and cleaning doesn't leave much time for fun.

Tan, I hope that Tayga enjoys this new group. What a great way for him to have a safe outlet where he can address issues without putting himself in a position of feeling vulnerable. There are some amazing ways to deal with things in a non-therapy session environment. How is Jamie doing? More teeth coming? How is Tim-tam?

My BIL is making noises about getting organized to move. He has his JCC today...meeting with both parties in front of a judge. It could all be finished today, or it could be held over for trial. I can hardly wait to have our home back as our own. It has been a long time, almost 11 months of living with us at this point. He was here all the time for months before that too. It will be interesting to see how the kids adjust to him not being here.

I hope that you both had a nice weekend.

Mich


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## Tan II

Hi !

Mother's Day was a great day ! I got spoilt. First I was gently woken up with breakfast in bed of pancakes ! (Our family tradition on mother's/father's day and birthdays !). Which is when I also opened my presents ! I got a paper mache box painted from Tayga which he made at school. That now is where I keep my earrings. He also made me a bookmark with a photo of him on. Just gorgeous !
DH remembered me saying I needed a new gown. I love my gown, especially in winter. He bought me a new gown. It's so scrummy ! It's soft and thick and just divine !
After breakfast, I messed around. Then I got back into bed and went back to sleep until lunchtime !!! What a treat.

The afternoon was spent being together. Then we went passed dh's mom for tea.

It was a great day. Nice to feel extra special.

Tayga's first drama group went well yesterday. He enjoyed it. He's keen to go back next week. Yay ! The mom's also get together and talk. Kind of like a support group.

Jamie is as cute as ever ! What a personality and sense of humour !

Tim-Tam is fine. Settled into her new home.

I went to yoga last night. I really enjoyed it and worked so hard. Now that I am getting more familiar with the poses, it is easier to focus and push myself harder.

I hope you both are ok and had a nice weekend.

Off to tidy the kitchen and hang up washing ! (Does it ever end?)

Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi!

Mich, you didn't say anything about your Mother's Day---how was it? How did your BIL's JCC go? My fingers are crossed for you!

Tan, your day sounds wonderful. That is nice of your men to spoil you!

That's wonderful that Tayga's first drama session went well---bonus that the moms get together to talk!

My weekend was busy. DH and I took the pistols out for target practice, which was actually pretty fun. I can hit the broad side of a barn, so it's a good start.

Then we shopped and shopped for plants for the garden....the New Mexican chile plants and poblano peppers were/are elusive. No cucumber plants anywhere. Hmmm.

And of course spent Mother's Day with Mom...cooking, and cleaning their old house. Ugh, I want that project over with! I miss having a 2 day weekend with a wide open schedule.

I keep threatening to put up a clothes line and hang out the wash, but haven't done it. We have the poles, it would be pretty easy.

Oh, and DH bought me a pair of athletic shoes. I haven't had any for years, so now I really must start exercising!

Head is still busy, as much as I have tried to empty it here. It will help to have the surgery over with, and then the funky thyroid therapy. Then we'll be ttc again, like that will empty my head!

I'm sleepy, but here I go, into the day....

Take care, friends!


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## Mammax4

My Mother's Day was nice. I am a kitchen control freak, so made a nice breakfast for everyone. (I like it better the way I cook it







) My boys gave me a cd, book and movie and Little Pink gave me a lily. DH didn't want her to feel odd by being the only kid out.

I have finally succumb to this bug. My temp is 104.0 right now







: ...I am off to bed in a few minutes. I feel like crap! I am hoping I can burn it out of me and be done soon. (wah...)

BIL's JCC went well. He has a divorce trial in October. He paid rent on his new place today. He 'is in no hurry to go though, he will move slowly'.







: I am keeping my end of June in my head. I am working on pegging him down in a way that does not seem like "Get OUT!"

Hope you are both well. I will get back and reply properly later.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Wow, that is a really high temperature, Mich. I will spend the rest of the day A)worrying about you and B)sending you wishes for good health!

Okay, moving slowly out of a house is the absolute worst way to do it! It's a big job, your BIL should just get it the heck over with! Tell him not to make me come up there.....I'm bossy and a hard worker!

My brother has this week off (starting a new job on Monday) so he was going to work in our parents' old house yesterday. I drove out there in the afternoon, loaded with cleaning supplies. But the brother decided to bug bomb the place BEFORE we did any cleaning. Dumb idiot. So perhaps the work schedule will allow me some time to go out there today.

We really are in the home stretch. A day or two of moving big stuff, another day or two of packing small stuff. A couple big cleaning days, which I have already started.

And we are trying to plan a sorta/surprise 40th anniversary party for the inlaws, who live 12 hours from here. My BIL who is local wants it to be as little work as possible, and really wants it held at the restaurant where he is chef (so he doesn't have to dress up, socialize or do any leg work). My DH absolutely doesn't want the party at BIL's restaurant. I am in the middle, since I am the communicator. Grrrr. And FIL sent me a guest list (that's why it's a sorta surprise) so I know I need a venue for approx. 120 people. I suppose I should just pick up a Michigan phone book and start making calls.

My sleep schedule is wretched. What does it take to break the habit of staying up far too late? I have no will power, therefore I am tired to the bones.

Mich, it sounds like you had a nice Mothers Day! What cd and movie did the boys get you, if I may be so nosy?

Have you two been watching American Idol?

Must scoot. Somewhere in this house we have spackle and wood putty, so the search is on!


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## Mammax4

Thought I would check in quick to put your worry to rest. My fever is down, not normal, but not super hot like it was.

cd - Norah Jones (feels like home)
dvd - pay it forward

Funny how it is the DIL that is making the arrangements for an Anniversary party for her IL's hey? What's up with that? They talk and you do??

I agree that BIL should not make this a long drawn out affair. There is no reason to wait now that he has his place. I understand that he doesn't want to be on his own, but.... come on...

Talk later.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Mich, thanks for checking in! I did pop in here lastnight to see if you had updated....it is very good news that your fever is no longer hot enough to produce flames! Hey, that reminds me of an Elvis song...

Get well now!

Your boys picked good gifts! That's a very sweet movie, but then, I'm a huge Kevin Spacey fan. Inspirational message.

Funny, I bought the new Norah Jones cd for my Mom yesterday! Her birthday is tomorrow, and I already have the Norah concert tickets for the gift. June 5, wish you were here, my Dad would probably stay home so you could go!

I remember the first time I ever heard 'Don't Know Why'. It was a weeknight, I think autumn, and I had just finished my hour commute. The song came on as I parked the car in front of our rental house. I sat in the car in the shadows to listen to the entire song, absolutely captivated by its beauty, then went inside to immediately do an internet search on the artist.

My album of the week is ABBA Gold. I've decided that it's time to know the words to more of their songs, after so many years! Everytime I hear 'Take a Chance on Me' I think about our family vacation to Manitoba. The song was everywhere, we heard it at least a couple times a day.

Lastnight on the evening news they did a story on a hospital 25 miles from here that is researching a drug to slow the progress of ALS. Must go join the flood of phone calls they must be getting today. When a person is dying anyway, why not try to join the trial?

It's kind of strange. I have always felt that we live here by default, because it's where we wound up settling in. Now I wonder if fate has directed us to be where we NEED to be. Or perhaps I am reading too much into this. But it gives me a strong sense that maybe, just maybe, everything is as it should be. Go with the flow.

Anyhoo. Tan, your gifts sound fabulous! Photos, I want photos of course!

BTW, I haven't sent any new jewelry because I'm stuck on bracelets to go with the RL shirts. I love red, but anytime I work on red bracelets they just don't look right to me. Don't know what the problem is. Crafting block, perhaps.

Okay, off to deep condition my hair! The long old stuff needs extra TLC these days.


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## Mammax4

Scrummy - must add to vocabulary. It is the perfect word to describe something to curl up into. Is that an Australian word, or a Tan and family word?

ABBA, that brings me back.







_Take a chance on me, Honey I'm still free....._
Is this when I admit I can sing along with them too?

It is amazing how music ties us to periods of time in our lives. When I hear an old song, I think about where I was when it came out and can get a good time line on when the music came out. Music can trigger such emotional memories. (so can ice cream







)

I really like the depth of Norah Jones' voice. Lovely and full. She does a song with Dolly Parton on that cd, it's fun - boppy. Who is going to the concert? You with your parents?

I too like Kevin Spacey. The message is great. I absolutely would love to be a part of the pay it forward movement.

I have only watched Idol here and there, but can't believe they didn't keep Melinda for the final. She has an amazing voice.

DH made a less than subtle plug to BIL about his place last night. Not in a bad way, just a 'good timing as it will be like you will be moving in together'. BIL's ex is going to be moving in with her boyfriend in the near future.
My nephew will be transitioning all over the place.









I hope the hospital call goes well, it sure wouldn't hurt to be part of a drug trial. Sometimes life has a way of showing us little peeks of why we are where we are. Not just the geographical location, but that counts too.

I hope you are doing well Tan. We have 6 weeks left until school is out here for 2 months. We start back again in September. I will have all 3 levels of school covered at that point. (elementary, middle and high school) Good thing I don't have to drive them all! Mornings are chaotic enough.

Mich


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## Tan II

Hey Mish, I'm glad to hear u r feeling better. I tried to send u an email get well card. My computer kept on bombing out.

Norah Jones is lovely. When Pay it forward came out, so many people who saw the movie told me that the kid in it reminds them of Tayga !

Not much happening here. Just the normal.

My sister and I each got a free make-up session in the Cosmopolitan. So we decided 'what the hell', and off we went last night. It was fun. We had our make-up done for us. My sister looked fantastic. I liked what they did on her. My make-up was ok. I wasn't overly thrilled. Doesn't matter. It was for free, and it was fun !

Keri, how's your Abba song-word learning going?

I don't know where scrummy comes from. I thought everyone knew that word !! A nice word to describe something delicious ! Maybe it's a mixture of scrumptious and yummy !! LOL !

Going to paint my nails. They're a bit chipped. I hate that !

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Doesn't everyone sing along with ABBA? I'm a slow learn on words to songs, so it's going....slowly. But Mama Mia is under control, as is Fernando. What was a Swedish group doing singing about the Rio Grande anyway?

Tan, you and your sister out doing girl stuff, how awesome is that? Long time coming.

And no, I've never heard the word scrummy, but I'm about to make my Mom a scrummy birthday cake! I'll make sure the word gets adopted in my circles!

Mich, DH declined to attend the Norah concert, as it is on a weeknight and she isn't his favorite. And we work in different cities, the concert is in yet another city, so logistically it would be a pain. So yes, I am going with the parents. Neat old theater, it will be an elegant evening.

Dad really enjoys her also, but not the fact that Mom can listen to the same cd over and over and over again in the car. She does that with Norah a lot!

Smells have as much power over me as music does. I bought some new perfume, Curve Crush, and it smells like something my Grandma used to wear. It produces such a visceral reaction, it almost hurts.

I wore a brand new perfume on our wedding day for that reason. Now everytime I wear it, I think of our wedding day.

Tan, I'm that way whenever I've had my hair professionally cut and styled. Ick. I have to go home and undo what they have done. Yes, I'm a self hair cutter. It's usually long, so not a big deal! Oh, that's my inner control freak coming out.

Mich? Isn't being a foster mom paying it forward?

Okay, I must go throw together the cake. Then off to work...my brother and I searched the internet for handicapped accessible vans, as Dad is dragging his feet and the need is already here. We found 2 really good ones, clean, well equipped, relatively affordable.

They are going to the wedding in June (600 mile roundtrip) and to the inlaw's party (800 miles from here) and then are taking my aunt back to North Carolina (she will be here for the wedding). That is days and days of travel, with Dad and his bad back hauling the wheelchair in and out of the trunk, and getting in and out of the car is hard on both Mom and Dad. The van will help so very much.


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## Mammax4

When I go to the hairdresser now, I leave with wet hair and no product in it to goop it up. It drives her crazy when I do, but she knows me well enough to know not to bother. (although she does try to finish it for me sometimes) It saves us both the hassle, I figure why bother?

I have a friend that is selling makeup products, she wants me to come over and let her do a facial on me. Yikes!

I'm not sure if fostering comes under the pay it forward heading. We certainly hope that we will have a positive impact on those we share our lives with. I am sure our lives will be richer for the experiences. I have given the green light for another placement anytime after the end of June. We will see how that goes....how quickly we will be needed again.

I love to bake birthday cakes. What kind did you make? My most requested is Black Forest. The boys have switched to ice cream cakes, so my opportunity to create them has been greatly reduced. Will can still go for a home made cake, he likes to help make it and watch it be decorated.

I bet the venue for the concert is perfect. DH and I were discussing the concert, and talking about how it would be so much better to see someone like Norah Jones in a cabaret kind of setting. Old theatre works too. Under the dome just doesn't have the same appeal to me, not for that kind of music.

We have a fire going on in the back yard - we started it and it is controlled - we finally are getting to that. It is burning nicely, but I should take a turn at playing with it. We have a long weekend here, off on Monday. Yeah!

Misch


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## lolalapcat

Holy Cow! We differ on something!

I am a hair product junkie. Leave-in conditioners are my big thing with the long hair. When it's short, I like putties and waxes, and I always use gels to contain the little frizzies. And spray of course, anything that smells yummy. Body builders, curl enhancers......

A facial would completely not be my thing! Good luck getting out of that one. My only friend who sold stuff (kitchen items) has discontinued it, so luckily I don't get put in that position. Ick.

Birthday cake: it's always my Great Grandma Christine's recipe, basic chocolate. I had to borrow eggs from the neighbor, so she gave me a whole dozen of farm eggs, which I love! And I put in too much milk, oops, so it had to bake longer, which made it a bit chewy. Eh, I'm not such a great cook. But it tasted good!

We had a nice birthday dinner for Mom. She has calmed down a bit, and isn't trying to control us in the kitchen as much. I make it a point to ask her for help on some things, so she doesn't feel as excluded during the cooking.

DH is currently very mad at our new clinic. He just wrote them a big check, and it is stuck in his craw. Pleasant morning.

The out-of-pocket costs are something I have already gotten over, apparently.

3 1/2 weeks.

Why the controlled burn? Clearing undergrowth, getting rid of brush? Toast some marshmallows! On realllly long sticks, of course...

You will have another bedroom available by June, won't you?!? That's exciting! Spread your wings, BIL, fly!

My Dad is back to dragging his heels on the accessible van. Damn it, damn it, damn it!!! All the money they have spent on vehicles and vacations and the new house and new furniture, and they are reluctant to spend a bit more money on something soooo important....

I must work on my control freakiness.

Getting together with friends this afternoon. We are going to tour an Extreme Makeover Home Improvement house, then grill out and go through my Orange Friend's massive music collection to burn some Anniversary Party music. Hopefully our Godson's family will join us too!

Making Insane Self plant a garden. Guess you know what I will be wearing when I clean up!

Have a great weekend, friends!


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## Mammax4

**Clarification**
I don't let the hairdresser put anything in my hair so that when I get home, I don't have to wash it before I style it the way I like it. Leave in conditioner is a must with my hair - too much abuse and natural curl to leave alone. I have shelves full of hair products, although I do have to be careful what I use. (sensitive skin and nose) Most things I use are to keep the frizz down and some even make my hair shiny.

I have started to put some things in BIL's room for his new place. Bedding, bathroom necessities etc. He wants us to come and see his new place and give him some words of encouragement about the move. You wait and see how encouraging I can be!







I am hoping that he will be gone by the end of this month. It does seem silly to have a place and be paying for it while staying somewhere else.

It's all fun and games until the check book has to come out? Is he mad because the surgery is a repeat?

We have another estimate for the deck/stairs railing being done today. Guess I better get ready for that.

Have fun on your tour and with dinner and music fun tonight.

Tan, I hope you are enjoying your weekend.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Okay, that makes sense! Hooray, we aren't different!

Except for the natural curls, you lucky duck! Mines just half hearted waves, I have to encourage the hair to be wavier or straighter. Product, product.

So your 3 day weekend is because of Victoria Day? I saw that on the calendar at work and meant to ask you about it. What's the scoop?

Next weekend I get a 3 day. Woohoo! I love love love 3 day weekends! Usually I find a project to do, but the lack of attention toward our house may lead to a bunch of cleaning. woohoo.

DH periodically gets really worked up over A) the repetition of procedures B) the out of pocket cost and C) the lack of any bedside manner of Superdoc.

I get worked up over A) general anesthesia and intubation B) having to work up some blind faith C) new holes in my body, dammit and D) the Fleet enema. Why why why, when the other hospital didn't require it?

Hahaha! He found an envelope in the car yesterday, dated April 2. It had a big ole check in it from our insurance, which we will sign over to the clinic. Guess he ought to be a bit more careful about his complaining, and how he handles the mail!

So that is a huge relief. Ahhhh. Financial stress lifted, at least for a few weeks!

Our neighbor tilled the garden for me yesterday (I love our neighbors!), so I got tomatoes, peppers, squash, eggplant, cucumbers, watermelon and canteloupe planted. I hope to get the beans and peas in today, and add rosemary and basil to the herb garden. And I cleaned up the flower beds and trimmed and mulched around the fruit trees...nice day.

We had a good time with our friend yesterday. She cooked tasty hamburgers and grilled veggies for us. We got 6 1/2 hours of music picked out for the anniversary party.

Oh, and my friend loved The Shirt! It actually got a good conversation going about cyber friends. She's always been a bit sheepish about hers for some reason, but she has made some really good friends online.

Keep up the BIL encouragement! It is nice of you to help with some of the details, so it will be easier for him. Is his new place anywhere close to your house?

I feel sorry for your nephew. Such upheaval and change. Poor kid.

Cross your fingers, I'm hoping my Dad will take it easy today, so we don't have to help on the Old House! Hubby and I would like to run to Omaha to search for a poblano pepper plant, we can't find one locally.








Must top off cup and try to get moving! Have a great Sunday/evening!


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## Tan II

Hi !!

Keri did u find your poblano pepper plant ? Your garden sounds lovely !

I'm happy to hear you had a nice time with your friend. I'm sure it was great listening to all the music too !

We have a 40th birthday party in 2 weeks time. It's actually dh's sister. Anyway, she has asked each of her guests to give photos of themselves from years back and some music for the party. She won't say why. Hhhmmm. The music is obvious, the photo .... not so sure. Sounds interesting !

Mish, are u feeling better ? I hoipe so.

Not much news here.

Just got back from yoga. It was amazing !

Off to shower.

Chat soon
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi, Tan!

It's really great that you enjoy the yoga so much!

I got up early today to work out (yoga or Winsor pilates, both new dvds) but DH was still here. Turns out he doesn't have to work today, the lucky duck! But I won't work out with an audience. Maybe we will walk the dog tonight!

Your SIL wants old photos of each of you....interesting! I can't wait to hear what she does with them for the party.

All of the music we picked is 50's-70's, well known sing along kind of music, so it should be fun. At least I will be singing along!

Turns out my DH is unenthused about the anniversary party for his parents, as is my BIL. Crap. I wish I had a SIL to help me!

So we helped move some heavy stuff at the parents' old house yesterday. Couch, refrigerator, table saw, tool box, cedar chest. Bigger things. Will it ever end?

Then we went to Omaha with the folks, found the poblano pepper plant-hooray!-among other plants, ate good Italian food, and looked at a handicapped accessible van. Thank heavens for my uncle, who told Dad about this van! I so hope it works out.

We got home at 9pm. Another tired start to another week.

Take care, my friends!


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## Mammax4

Lucky duck to have natural curls??? Are you Crazy?? I know, I know... the grass is always greener on the other side. I am sure if I had straight hair, I would want curly. Never happy, what can I say!

Victoria Day is to celebrate Queen Victoria's birthday and Canada's current reigning sovereign. I can't believe it is over already! I hope your long weekend goes much more slowly than mine did. That is presuming that you are going to do fun things and not spend the whole time cleaning and packing your parent's house.

Fleet enema sounds a little overkill for your procedure. The side position is best.... it does what it needs to better if you are on your side. Better alignment with the natural lay of the intestines or something. Enough of that discussion!! If it makes you feel better, I had to have one in January too.

We went to see BIL's new place yesterday. It is kinda cool actually. I made a list of things he will need to buy. I think we are going to go do that tomorrow after work. He wants me to come with him and make sure he gets what he needs. I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed at his new place this weekend... if not before, depending on what we can find to set up his kitchen. He has his shaving kit packed up and in his room, that's how close we are to launch!!









Money stress sucks. One of the worst for sure. How does your insurance work? Do you pay and then they reimburse you? That could be scary! Glad DH found that cheque so you have a little breathing room.

Our deck railing and surfacing looks like it will be more than we expected. What isn't?? We should be getting our last quote later this week. DH said that a holiday somewhere was looking pretty interesting about now... unfortunately, we are too practical and will get a deck and railings instead. My Dad was saying that we live in a holiday place, that people travel to where we live for a holiday so it didn't really matter. He knows we are too 'safe' to throw money around without care. I don't mind actually, one day the three of us will have to get together somewhere fun. I'll break the bank open for that!!

Hey Keri, I was just thinking.... do you weld?? or is the business another end of the spectrum?? You could come and build my railing for me!!

How did the van hunt go? Any luck?? I hope that your Dad comes to realize that it is not practical to convert it himself.

Tan, I am feeling better, thanks for asking. Not quite without symptoms yet, but working on it.

Glad to hear that you are enjoying yoga. I have wanted to try it a number of times, but can't slow down enough to do so. I am a breath away from picking up a treadmill. I had borrowed one from a gf, but it had a very narrow walking space. I hardly used it at all. Maybe this weekend if BIL is gone, I will get it and put it in our spare room for now. I don't like an audience when I am getting all sweaty either. If we were all doing the same thing, it's a whole different ball game.

I best get back and fold some more laundry...

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Hi!

The grass is always greener, you know that!

When I lived in the desert Southwest, my hair went straight. It needs humidity to have any wave! I spent a lot of time making my hair un-flat, un-limp, un-lanky. I'll never take natural texture for granted again!

I kinda wondered if Victoria Day was to honor Queen V. Parades, fireworks? Just a day off? How did you celebrate?

Oh, by visiting BIL's apartment! That is sooo exciting. I hope the move comes to pass soon. I love new apartments, they are a blank canvas.

Thanks for the Fleet advice. I know nothing about them. No, I don't feel better that you had one in January! Misery does not love company on this one.

The van was nice, but too pricey. It's on the back burner again. I will continue searching, to see if I can force it to happen.

Like the anniversary party. I can't even begin to express my frustration with DH and his brother. This should NOT all be falling on me! But I want it to happen, so I'm dragging them along, kicking and screaming. Brats.

Some things just have to be done. I'm a martyr, I speak from experience.

Mich, I have welded, but not enough that you want me to do your railing! It is a skill I would like to have, so someday. My parents hired out their railing, it's made of prefabricated pieces. A local blacksmith assembled and installed it. I'll take my camera a snap a pic of it for you.

It would be nice to take a vacation rather than do the steps and railing! I would rather take a vacation than go through the surgery. Damned obligations.

I will not work at my parents' house all weekend! We will do some work there, some socializing with friends, some house/yard work, and I will do the car tour to visit dead relatives. I have a new cemetery to locate, another stop is being added to the tour! It is where my great(x5) grandparents are buried. The emigrated from Germany, with his parents, and their kids.

This out-of-network business with our insurance is all new to me. Usually the clinic will bill insurance, insurance will pay clinic and send us a notice of payment. With this clinic, the clinic bills insurance and us, insurance does not communicate with clinic. They send all notices and checks to us. Which means DH can lose them in the car! It's very confusing.

Mich, how is your grandma? And sister? And DH's stomach? And the boys?

Tan, is Jamie threatening to walk yet? How's Tayga's drama therapy going?

I've got to go locate a cemetery, plan a party and shop for a van! Oh, and maybe work a bit.

Talk to you soon, friends!


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## Mammax4

Shopped for BIL's kitchen/bath stuff for his new place. We bought everything he will need to be self sufficient. Not the food, just the wares that fill up a kitchen. We took all the stuff to his place and unpacked it all. I didn't want him to have to do that on his own, it could be too overwhelming. So, now it is the food staples to get organized and he will be good to go!

Keri, how is it that DH and BIL know that if they don't, you will? Frustrating sometimes to be in that position. Don't let them get away with anything, it is after all, their parent's anniversary. I am not like that at all... and don't Dare ask me about who booked my sister's last flight....because you know it wouldn't possibly have been me because I don't do that kind of stuff!!

The trouble with being the kind of person that doesn't sit and worry that others are not getting to work on what they should be is that those people know you won't sit. They know if they wait long enough that you will step up and do it and they don't have to.

Victoria day does get parades, but we don't go. We are not a parade attending kind of family. Too many marched in growing up to be keen to rush into crowds of thousands to sit or stand for hours. (killjoy, I know...) We don't do anything in particular, just enjoy an extra day off. How about you? Is it Memorial Day that is coming up for you?

My Grandma is doing well, she has been moved to rehab. There are some adjustment issues there - they are not well staffed. She is settling in alright. I haven't spoken to my sister in a while, she was doing fine the last time we talked. Her in-laws just moved to her town, so I think she is getting used to that.

The boys are doing well. Eating us out of house and home as usual. They are looking forward to summer holidays. Dan is applying for jobs right now, he has to earn a whole bunch of money for a school trip to Japan. (I can't remember if I told you about that or not... sorry if it's a repeat.) It is for 3 weeks and will fall over spring break of 2008. He is very excited about that. Chris is almost never home, he is our social one. Will is hockey crazy and wants to be playing it all the time. DH's stomach is the same; some good days, some bad days. He went for a surgical consult 2 weeks ago. He has a umbilical hernia that now needs repair. He was told that he could expect to be scheduled in 2009. (he's on a cancellation list)

Have a great day!

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Holy crap, 2009? Is it bureaucracy that slows down the medical system there, or shortage of medical personnel? Or something I haven't thought of in my morning brain fog? I hope your DH is not in discomfort from this hernia! Tell him I have staplers, superglue and duct tape...

I knew Dan was interested in Japan, but I don't recall a trip...that is so exciting! He could come down here and mow for my Dad, he's looking for someone.

Will, hockey crazy. Too bad he's not a Redwings fan, I could hook him up with all kinds of paraphenalia! We have sticks, pucks, jerseys, plaques, t shirts, jackets, books. You'd think I would know who won game 6 lastnight, Ducks or Wings.

I don't think BIL was waiting for me to organize the anniversary party. I'm sure DH was. It's my sort of thing, not his. But BIL has completely dropped the ball. He can't even get a per-person cost from the restaurant he works at! He won't call me back. And everything we have talked about, he goes straight to FIL and tells. So much for any kind of surprise!

So FIL called yesterday to give me party ideas. For his own party. ??? And he made a million excuses for why BIL is justified in not calling me back. Poor thing is SOOOOO busy. It was all I could do to keep my head from exploding.

DH called a family friend today to help us. Hopefully he will not be reporting to FIL. I do not understand these people.

I'm a bit crabby these days. PMS, to be sure, but also lots of life pressure.

Memorial Day--no parades around here, but flags will be flying. Most communities put up a flag for each combat vet that has passed, in a local cemetery, at a park, around the courthouse...it varies. Veterans groups will mark the graves of vets. People visit graves and decorate them (not me, I don't really like plastic flower, and never have anything blooming).

For a lot of people it's a big picnic weekend. Get together with friends, grill out, go boating. I'm a grave person. 2 new cemeteries to visit this year, I located 3 new dead ancestors yesterday! I must go introduce myself!

We are getting together with friends Sunday night, build-your-own-taco, games. Sitting on the porch watching the world pass by. It will be nice!

Were you in marching band or drill squad? I like parades, but haven't actually watched one in decades.

I hope your Grandma does well at the rehab facility, despite the understaffing. That's frustrating.

Must go. I'm trying to get to work a shade earlier today.








: Talk to you soon!


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## Tan II

Hey !

How's everyone? Been up to the usual day to day stuff.

Went to ToysRUs today, they're having a really good sale on. Got a few things. Some for the boys, and some to keep as presents.

Yay ! BIL will be moving soon. I'm sure you're counting down the days.

Glad to hear that your Grandma is doing ok. I hope she settles in.

I'm sure your food bill will double with the boys at home. Mine seems to when Tayga isn't at school. He always seems to be hungry !

Keri how is your planning going for your FIL?

Tonight dh & I are going out for dinner ! Yippee ! It should be fun ! My sister is babysitting for us. We're going to a very nice place. Yum !

Going to get ready !

Chat soon.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi Tan!

You have probably already had dinner tonight, I hope you and your hubby had a wonderful time together! A very nice place, does that mean table linens and candlelight?

Awesome, that your sister will babysit for you....that's a bonus.

Hey, we never followed up on you getting your Australian citizenship...wasn't that supposed to happen a couple of months ago?

So the anniversary party: I am supposed to call the Family Friend in Michigan. Why, I don't know. Surely my DH told him that we could use help finding a rental hall or restaurant or someplace to have this.

It's stressing me out. I should have pushed more months ago, when it was on my mind but I had more time.

And it doesn't count that I watched American Idol and Lost lastnight, they were season finales! I can call him tonight.

Yesterday was all uphill. I'm hoping today is a little easier to get through.








:

Take care!


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## Tan II

Hi !

Yip, dinner did mean linen and candlelight ! It was yummy ! Good food, good wine, good company !! I did have lots of garlic too ! DH told me he could smell it ! Oops !
It was so nice to catch up and have time together.

Keri, I've been thinking about the anniversary party. If i was you, I'd go for a restaurant. THen there is othing u have to organise. They will do everything from the food, linen, etc. The most you'll probably have to do is select a menu. Go for the easiest option.

For some stupid reason, American Idol has not been shown here. I love it. Bummer. Lost is a series I never got into. IT looks too confusing to just start watching. I'd imagine that you'd need to start from the beginning.

Jamie is having his sleep now. I'm going to finish my coffee and read my book. Chill out time. I'm on track with the washing, cleaned the house yesterday, don't have to cook anything......... aaaahhhhhh









Have a great day/night. Chat later
Tan


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## Mammax4

Too much to say, too little time!

Dan and Chris have been out eating both DH and myself for a long time. You could employ a person for minimum wage ($8.50/hr) for a year with what we spend on groceries in a year.

Dinner sounds lovely Tan. Ahhh, grown up food, ambience and company... makes me want a date with DH!

2009 is a combination of too few Dr's and too little available OR time and space. As his is not an emergency it gets put Way far back on the schedule. There are those with hip/knee/back injuries that have to wait a year or more. Not fun to have to have surgery. That's why I jumped at the chance when I did...3 weeks or 6 months... hmmmm.

I was in marching band and when I was younger I was a 'twirler' - baton that is. Our parades here do attract alot of US school bands too. I must admit, we don't usually have anything on the ones from the States.

What was uphill? Same stuff or new?

Our schedule is about to take a major speed pill. We have another foster child coming - probably on Monday. He will be 'Little Blue'. It will help BIL hop to his departure. He has taken a load of stuff over tonight. I am thinking he may have a sleep over there, but we will see. Food staples and fresh food are all he has left to get before being self sufficient.

I agree with Tan, you should try and keep it simple. Let DH take some of the responsibilities...can you do that? Or is it too frustrating because he will sit and let it go too long.

Hey Tan, since you are all caught up on laundry and cleaning, want to come help me?? I am going to be a cleaning maniac this weekend. Depending on when BIL leaves (he came here tonight and said he is 'cleaning the room out' tomorrow - he did sleep at his new place tonight) I may even paint the room he was in.

Keri, enjoy your long weekend. Remember to save some time for fun! Sounds like dinner will be great!

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Hooray for the nice dinner out! I'm glad you had some good quality time with your DH, Tan!

And Mich, another baby in the house, that's so exciting! How old is Little Blue? Yes, that may provide some motivation for your BIL to get the move over with. It is fabulous that he has 'test driven' the apartment!

Is BIL worried about being alone? Has he ever lived alone?

Our schedule is so similar--I may be painting today or tomorrow at the folks' old house. Just one room really needs it (brother's old room, go figure!) and a couple of closets. Yesterday I did prepwork, spackling holes and dents, putting primer on where needed. And got Dad's bathroom completely detailed, except for the biffy and floor. Slowly but surely the house is shaping up, very clean and sparkly.

The day was uphill for a variety of reasons---contrary customers on the phone, shipped orders gone missing, incorrect info in emails so I couldn't answer them in one shot, a page ripped out of one of our record books....just those little things that aren't a big deal, until all of them happen in one day. Normally my workdays are very easy and pleasant.

The party---I haven't done anything except order personalized cocktail napkins. Yes, a restaurant would be easiest. But BIL is a chef at a restaurant, and he wants the party there, and he will make all the food. Which would be great, but that means he will be working instead of attending the party. We think he should attend the party, him being one of their 2 kids.

So how do we pick another restaurant? I think it would greatly offend BIL. But DH refuses to have the party at BIL's restaurant. Why are they so damn stubborn? Someone needs to give!

DH hates BIL's restaurant, mainly because it's his parents' hangout, so they expect us to spend lots of time there, drinking, smoking, meeting and greeting their friends. Which is okay for a while, but hours on end...it drives DH bonkers. One time we went there straight from the airport, didn't even drop off luggage at the house, and spent the afternoon. And no, it wasn't to eat a meal!

That, and I think it figures into BIL's 'I'm so busy, I'm so important' complex. If we want to see him, we pretty much have to go to him. The inlaws do have him on a pedestal (MIL still does his laundry, they pay for his cell phone, they put up with his often very surly attitude...he is 34.)

There is a LOT of sibling rivalry going on. It's so different that what I am accustomed to dealing with, I don't quite know how to handle it.

It has sucked all the fun out of planning this party. I like to plan parties!

Whew. Thanks for letting me vent. I know it's complicated and boring, but it truly is starting to cost me sleep.

I'm a drama queen. If I don't have something to bitch about, I will find something. Must stop. Go ahead and school me on this!

Moving on. Mich, my brother still eats about twice what I do! He never outgrew it. I don't know how you can afford it!

Tan, Lost would confuse the heck out of you if you tried watching it now, you are correct! It is one of the best shows I have ever watched, very unpredictable and different.

DH and I are going out to dinner tonight--no linens and candlelight, though! It's a Mongolian grill, which is one of my very favorite places to eat. It is starting to become DH's favorite too, woohoo! He has been craving their food for a couple of weeks now.

Oooof. Big day. I should get started.


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## Mammax4

Little Blue... well, he is almost 7 months old. He is not here yet, a delay has come up, but I will be visiting him over the next few days until he is here.

BIL slept at his place last night and will continue to do so from now on. He came by for a visit tonight and we'll see him with Nephew tomorrow. Yeah, our house is now our own. I started putting some stuff in the room - to claim the space. BIL has lived on his own once for a year. That was when his ex sent him of for work with a 'see you when you get home honey, have a good day' and he came home to an empty house with her and the kids gone. They were gone for a year.

I won't be painting this weekend, I will be spending time visiting with Little Blue instead. It puts a load on DH, but he is up for the challenge. Although, he would be happy to have it shared.







It will be less complicated when Little Blue is here.

Hmmm, how to handle sibling rivalry.... stay out of it! Probably safer to be your DH's outlet then get involved. If memory serves, you said it is wise to stay on MIL's good side. The Golden child would be in that position whether he was right or not.

Hope you had a great dinner out! Our date isn't happening this weekend. No visit for Little Pink and must visit Little Blue. I am with you both in dinner out spirit. Have an appetizer for me!

Must run... going to make cookie dough.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Mich--

Just a little baby....that breaks my heart. Little Blue is so lucky he is coming to stay with you! It is sweet that you are visiting him beforehand, so the transition will be easier.

Your ex SIL sounds like a real peach. What upheaval those poor kids have been through! Is your nephew the only one still in the house?

I wondered if your BIL was intimidated by the prospect of living alone, particularly if he had never done it. At least he had a year of practice, so he knows he can do it.

Our godson's Dad is that way...always lived in his parents' home until he got married. Never has lived on his own, and isn't good at helping manage their household. He has no concept. Eeeek!

Okay, back to the party---if I stay out of it, it won't happen. DH already says he doesn't even want to attend. Grrrrrrrr. I told him it wasn't about him, it's about his parents' anniversary.










Okay, I have to get a move on. I finished painting one bedroom at The Old House, today I'm painting closets. They are the most scruffy part of the house, I figure a little white paint will fix that. Come to think of it, I could use a coat of white paint myself!

Enjoy the cookies!


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## Mammax4

Why is DH so uninvested in this Anniversary party? Is there too much conflict with brother/parents/DH? Is it that it is all about the other brother, so what is the point? Are you so invested in the party because that is who you are (do it, and get it done...don't procrastinate) or is there another reason for you? It seems like the surprise is gone....the in-laws want it at BIL's restaurant....BIL isn't communicating.... I am wondering if you are putting yourself out and getting nothing but hassle in return. If the in-laws know about it, and are expressing their opinion about who to invite/where to have the party perhaps they should do the planning with BIL. Or are the in-laws expecting it to be done for them?

Perhaps your party planning energy would be better used/appreciated elsewhere. Maybe you could have a small do for your parent's - like a housewarming party. It seems the in-law's party is more hassle than fun and way more work than it should be. Could you step back and let BIL handle the details? It sounds like the in-laws like to fan his self absorbed flames, so they would likely be alright with what ever he could do.

My BIL's ex is a piece of work...that is for sure. She will be moving in with her boyfriend in the very near future. (she's had him since Dec. 05 - 7 months before she booted BIL out) BIL has a step-daughter, she is almost 19. She is going to move in with her boyfriend because she hates her Mom's boyfriend. Can we say messed up or what?

On a different note, I had occasion to speak with a hospital social worker. I told her about my desire to get a support group for pregnancy/birth loss started. I told her about my experience last summer, no pastoral care/social worker.... She said that was not the way it was supposed to be, that I had been missed and should have had a visit. Good to know that I was the exception rather than the rule.

I am off to do more laundry, it has been a busy weekend. Amazing how much time is used up when you have to leave the house to sit around somewhere else.

Have a great extra day off Keri. Tan, how are you doing? How are the boys? How is your DH doing with his new business?

Mich


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## Tan II

Hi !

Keri how is your day off ? I hope u had a sleep-in ! What did u get up to ?

Mish, have u met Little Blue yet ? Poor thing. Is Little Pink still with you ?
How are your boys ?
Has BIL moved out properly now ? Is he doing ok ?

Keri, how the plans going for the anniversary party ? THis should earn u loads of brownie points with your in-laws !

All is well here. We had a nice weekend. It goes by so quickly.

Going to shower. I'm so tired. I went to bed so late last night. I was reading a good book, and was nearly finished. Yip, u guessed it. I didn't go to sleep until it was finished. DH told me not to complain this morning when I couldn't get out of bed !

Have a good day.
Tan :yawning:


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## lolalapcat

Tan, I hope you get some rest! What book were you reading that kept you up all night?

I have slept in a bit all three days, which has been a treat. Worked very hard on Saturday, sorta hard yesterday (the house is finally looking cleanish!) and had a very fun party on our friends' porch last night.

DH wouldn't ever plan a visit to his parents' if I didn't push for it. He is very much a homebody, and his parents irritate the hell out of him. I think that's it in a nutshell!

BIL actually said that his Mom would be happy if we just had a dinner with the kids there. He actually thought that would count for a party. Umm, don't we call that Christmas dinner?

My MIL does NOT know about the party. This is for both of them, but the surprise is for her.

DH is now handling all communication with BIL, as it should be. BIL called this morning, saying we should cut the guest list so we could have the party at his restaurant. DH said no, that we would have the party at his restaurant only after considering other options. This really may cause a permanent rift. They are both stubborn.

My parents are going to have a house blessing performed by their minister and invite their church members to attend. DH and I will fix brunch for them. So we are planning something for them, too!

The reason I am stuck on this party is: I know from my own parents that a person shouldn't count on a 50th to happen. Throw the party when you can, there may not be another really good opportunity. And my inlaws KNOW what we did for my parents, they were invited! The competition is on. I really do like them, I really do want to do this for them.

So how did your time go with Little Blue? I wish I was there to help you with laundry while you are visiting him!

Is the room ready?

I hope your BIL is settling into his new home. Is there any chance your nephew could move in with him? I'm putting on my Judge Wig here: your ex-SIL is really selfish to put her own desires above the needs of her children. Granted the 19 year old has options, but your poor nephew is stuck. Nasty mom.

How many other women fall between the cracks at that hospital, then? That's not very reassuring. People. Ugh.

Crap. I've got to get to running. Now that we have a family meal scheduled, it puts a cramp in the cemetery touring. I've never timed it, I don't know how long it takes....

Happy Monday! I hope you are rested, Tan, and Mich, I hope things are going calmly with Little Blue!


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## Mammax4

5x I have started my reply. My computer keeps bringing up a error report and dropping the connection.







:

I will try again later, and add on to my reply.


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## lolalapcat

Mich, that's maddening!

I am exhausted. At this point I am looking forward to the surgery, as then I have a fabulous excuse to lay around and rest!

Yesterday we met 2 new dead ancestors, all alone at the edge of a tiny cemetery on a hill. The pelting rain kept me from meeting 3 others! At least now I now where that cemetery is located. Now I have 2 more to try to find from this branch, neither with a burial site listed in our family history.

I'm not sure if my compulsion to find these people has anything to do with my own lack of continuity of family, posterity. They seem to be interrelated, but it's not something I have really analyzed. Yesterday was kinda hard for some reason. Maybe it's PMS.

The dinner at my folks' house was nice. Mom was controlling, as usual!

I mentioned the surgery in conversation to my brother, and my Aunt picked up on it and asked me about it, quietly and privately. So I told her about our last 2 years, in 3 sterile sentences. Not sure if I am glad I did it, or regret it. Torn.

What is this rash on my leg?!?!?! I thought the diphenhydramine cream made it go away yesterday, but today it is back and is ITCHY! Damn, damn, damn!

Tan, I'm still waiting to hear what book kept you up all night!

Mich....your computer/internet issues are keeping us from getting the Little Blue update!

Have a great day/night!


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## Mammax4

I have taken drastic measures.... I am using word to type this and will copy and paste so I don't have to do this again. I was about 1/2 way finished when it crapped out this time.

Little Blue is not with us yet. We have seen him everyday, except Sunday, and the boys went with me on Monday and Will went with me tonight. Hopefully he can come tomorrow, but we will have to wait and see. Little Pink is still here, doing well and up to her eyeballs in the goings on here.

BIL has moved out. He has a few things left, and a bunch of tools - we will need those to build the deck. I know he misses being here, the hustle and bustle that goes on in a house with more than one person. He is doing well, he comes to visit and bring nephew over. Nephew would not consider living with BIL, his mom has done a good job of programming him. Perhaps as time goes on it will be easier.

On a different note, DH's surgery went from 2009 to next Wednesday. There was a cancellation, so there he goes. He has a pre-op tomorrow. 10-14 days off work and no lifting over 20 lbs for 6 weeks and he will be good to go.

*putting my 'nosey nose' on here* What were your sterile words that explained your last two years? Is this the Aunt that had fertility issues? Are you struggling with sharing or with how you shared?

I have been very emotionally bent the last while. I am not sure if it is hormones or the one year mark of the positive pg test or what. I could do without the hormones that is for sure. More often than not since my surgery, I have huge rushes at both ovulation and what would be menstruation. Ummm, thanks, but that isn't what I signed up for!!!

Tan, how are your boys doing? Has Tayga had many more drama sessions yet? How about Mr. Jamie??

Hopefully I will figure out what is going on with this piece of silly hardware!!

Mich


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## Tan II

Hi !

Keri how is the rash on your leg ? Maybe it's exczema and u need cortisone cream.

THe book I was reading was a real 'chick book' called Gucci Mama's. It was set in Melbourne funny enough (not why i read it !) about a group of very rich mothers and their lives. It was interesting/funny/sad to read how superficial people are, and what is important, and the crap they spend loads of money on. Although it wasn't a true story, I can believe that there are plenty of people like the characters in the book. Not only in Melbourne.
So anyway, it was enjoyable. A nice easy read.

Mish, how's your computer? All better I hope.

How's little blue and little pink ? And the rest of the family ?

Is dh nervous ? Brilliant that it was brought forward. Good Luck. Wishing him a speedy recovery.

I'm sure it is a huge change for BIL being on his own. It'll take time, and he'll be fine. Do u miss him ? Or is it a relief having your space back ?

Tayga is LOVING the drama sessions. I am so thrilled to hear it. He is so excited to go and enjoys being there. Thank goodness !
The past few days have been amazing. Let me not speak too soon ! He even got an award in class for good work. What a great teacher.

Jamie is great. He is starting to take steps on his own. He'll stand up, take up to 3 steps, and then sit down again ! It's a start









DH is complaining about feeling sick. Sore throat and like he has a cold. Typical male - it's the END of the world. He even came home early today and got into bed.
How irritating ! When I'm sick, I just get on with it ! Don't worry, I give him the TLC he is obviously after ! (I sound mean - I'm not really !).

Just got home from yoga. It was a great class. I am learning to push myself more and understand the poses better.

Going to shower and jump into bed with a cup of tea.

Big hugs to you both.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

:yawning:

I'm here, I'm here!

Maybe if I pour the coffee over my head it will work faster!

Mich, what is going on with your computer, or is it the board itself? Strange. Good work on sneaking in a post! Thanks for...crap, I can't think of the word. Sticking to it!

I got home late lastnight---working at the stupid old house, cleaning and painting---then was working on invitations for the anniversary party. Then DH started going through old family photos, and he wanted to tell me about them. He was such a cute baby--I haven't seen many of his baby pictures!

Anyway, late night. Then I didn't sleep well, which is very unusual.

Anniversary party is planned, location is reserved, menu is set, everyone is happy. Woohoo.

So now I'm going to make invitations to save money, but they won't be as fancy schmancy as I would otherwise make them, due to time element. I don't know, maybe I will make them sorta fancy. How much time did that take me on my parents' invitations? Can't remember. They were really neat, a wedding photo, with the invitation printed on a vellum overleaf and secured with a ribbon at the top, decorative corners punched into the vellum....

Okay, 'sterile' wasn't such a good word choice, was it? How about 'matter of fact'?

No, this is not the aunt that couldn't have children. This is my soft hearted jewelry making aunt.

Aunt: So I hear you are going in for some surgery?
Me: Pause. Yes, we are having difficulties having kids, so this is a follow up to surgery I had last year to remove endometriosis.
Aunt: Have you had your eggs tested and all that?
Me: We are fertile. The problem is with carrying a child.
Aunt: Oh. (fraught with meaning...)
Me: It has been a long couple of years. So we will try this surgery and try one more time.
Aunt: Then will you adopt?
Me: Yes.
Aunt: Well that can take a long time too.
Me: (Thinking 'duh, like I don't know the pros and cons about all my options) Yeah, I know.

And that's about it. I think my problem was with saying it all out loud. I don't have to really think of it, and the time frame we are on, most of the time. It seems kind of desperate when it's said out loud. Like we are a little nuts.

Mich, I'm an emotional mess too. Last year this time we were pregnant, and so hopeful, and that hurts to look back on the naivete, and it makes me angry. I just haven't had time to indulge in the emotions, and am fully aware that I am cramming them down. DH is out of town for a few days for work, so maybe I'll take advantage of some space.

What could help with the hormones, a doctor or medication or herbs or foods? That sounds really icky, I don't blame you for being frustrated. Your poor body!

Tan, the rash raged on all itchy yesterday, then I tried some hydrocortisone cream, and it's much better today. I have no idea what it might be! It's such a strange location...

I've never heard of that book, but it sounds very interesting! I finished my book on the American Revolution last night, time to pick out another one...

Our godson is now almost 15 months, and he shows no interest in walking. He is so top heavy!

Good for Jamie! And that is amazing, that Tayga got an award for good work, what a turnaround! It's so nice to hear he is doing better.

Blah, blah, blah. I have to get ready, grab my friend's birthday presents to wrap, take the invitation stuff to work, go shopping for supplies and a birthday card, print invites, leave work early to get home and take care of animals, then run to the city for the birthday dinner.....


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## lolalapcat

I posted too soon....

Find some time and dump your head out here, Mich. I started already...

And good luck to your DH! That's really soon, but so much better than waiting 2 years. I hope the surgery improves his health. And look at all the family time you will be getting!


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## Mammax4

Yet again.... I'm not sure what this piece of crap on my desk has against me posting, but I am sure getting tired of this!

Little Blue will be here on Monday. It will be nice not to have to rush out and leave all the kids to DH. I feel bad for doing that, but I think it is important to see Little Blue before he gets here, it may make it easier.

DH went for his pre-op and our Dr said it would be 4-6 weeks off work. Looks like I will have a daytime housemate for a while. It will just about take him to our holiday time too. Who couldn't use a couple of months off in the summer??

Good job for getting the Anniversary party all organized. No easy task for sure. I wish I could help with the invitations. I like doing that kind of thing. I could always lick envelopes if there was nothing else for me to do. ;-)

I am glad to hear that Tayga loves his class so much. Nice for his teacher to recognize his efforts in class. Are you finding this to be a better school year for Tayga? And Jamie walking... yeah Jamie!!

It is not anything specific in my head that is making me sad, I am just easy to tear up these days. I am a softie, but not generally this soft! Perhaps all the pregnant bellies in my face are slowly eroding my stiff upper lip? I know I am still not talking to my sister as much as normal. I need to snap out of the feel bad for me mode and make it about her. I am glad we don't live within visiting distance of each other. That would be challenging.

I am going to see about fixing this piece o' junk. I hope you are both well.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

I'm sorry your computer is being so difficult! Ours still threatens to kill itself, but hasn't done it....perhaps its gremlins are contagious.

Yeah, so much for getting back to a normal routine! At least it's your DH that will be around, and not other relatives.

Given the ages of your kids, this could make for a very memorable summer. Take rash advantage of it! Camp in the yard, play games in parks, take in some museums, have yard parties, count the stars in the sky....you'll just have to work around Dan's work schedule and Chris' social schedule!

The vast majority of the credit for the anniversary party now goes to the family friends who found the country club for us!

My friends are helping to assemble invitations on Sunday. I lamented that these wouldn't be as pretty as my parents' due to lack of time, and they offered to help! They are crazy, and wonderful. So yesterday I got the invitations all printed--old photo and new photo on cardstock, invitation on vellum. Got everything cut yesterday (2 invites on each piece of paper...) I'll address envelopes tonight. DH will be back late, otherwise I'd have him help.

They are adhesive envelopes, Mich, so your job wouldn't even leave a bad taste in your mouth! I'd love to have your help. Will Sunday work for you?

Dad told me yesterday that Mom is having more continence issues. Well, he's not sure if it's continence or timing, her not being able to get to the bathroom in time. He is going to start looking into some home care. I'm going to push to make sure he doesn't take months to think about it.

She had me pick her up yesterday, bring her into work. She is going to stop doing the bookkeeping soon. But it was nice to have her there, she offered lots of opinions on the invitations. That's all I did yesterday besides answer the phone.

So I got some of the crying out of my system. It came unbidden lastnight. There is still a backlog of tears, I can feel them, but now maybe HAPPY songs won't make me cry in my car! Can you say 'psycho'?

Oh, and good news---our friends' baby is now in remission from the leukemia. Good things do happen! How about that.

I hope things will get back to normal with your sister soon....this is still repercussion from her snarkiness on the phone to you, maybe, and she won't return any of your baby clothes? The tension isn't all due to you and your lunatic-ness. Cut yourself a break, lady!

How are meetings going with Little Blue? I'm sure it will make things easier, when you will be a familiar face and set of arms. Can you tell us a bit about him?

Okay, I need wedding gift suggestions! My two younger cousins are getting married, no not to each other! One this month, one in September. I don't know them particularly well due to the generation gap. Neither of them has much stuff, so do I get pretty crystal things as usual? Or since they have small living quarters, do I get something compact, like cash? I'm usually not a cash giver. What to do , what to do...

Hope you are both having a wonderful Friday!


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## Tan II

Hi !

Had a busy weekend looking after a sick family. DH is on the mend, but still not 100%. Little Jamie also wasn't well this weekend. He had a fever and has been coughing and miserable. Poor thing.

The weekend besides the sickies, was relaxing and not too eventful.

It was dh's gran's 90th birthday yesterday. We had a tea party for her. It was sweet.

Keri, how are you feeling ? Tears are good. They cleanse the soul. Sometimes that is what you need to feel better. A good cry.

How are the party invitations ?

I'm so happy to hear the good news about your friend's baby. I can imagine the relief they must be feeling.

Wedding gift suggestions. Hhmmm...... ,what about something electrical. It's always a hard thing to do. Buying a gift for someone you don't really know.

Mish, how are Little Blue and Little Pink doing ? How's the rest of the family ? How are you ?

I hope your computer is better too !

Going to strip the beds. It's linen day !!

Chat soon.
Tan


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## Mammax4

A quick hello, so you don't declare me missing! Busy house... hoping that will change soon.

Little Blue comes tomorrow. Little Pink is well. Boys are well. DH is nervous and a little short, and wishing it was Wednesday morning.

I am tired and feeling slightly disconnected from home. All this running around is for the birds. I hope once little blue is with us it will settle a bit.

I hope you are both well. I will get back on soon.

Mich

**I think I have figured out what was up with the computer too... I probably shouldn't have said that!!


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## lolalapcat

Mich, with DH recovering from surgery and the arrival of Little Blue, I don't think your house is going to quiet down anytime soon! You are going to be as busy as Tan!

Tan, I do hope your family is on the mend! And you stay healthy!

I hope the computer problem is now fixed, so that will be one less think to deal with.

The invitations are done! They look pretty good. The spray glitter on the vellum is a nice touch---heaven forbid I keep it simple! My friends helped me construct the invites yesterday, so they were done in a couple of hours. I will mail them today.

DH fetched green ribbon and food for us, so he did contribute!

The godson slept on my lap for an hour yesterday.







It's so nice to be the favorite! I hope it lasts for a while, but I will savor it now, in case GJ moves on to another favorite adult.

It was much nicer than Saturday. My brother and I cleaned out the grossest, mousiest areas of the parents' old house. Just the basement cupboards, the whole house was not that way! But all of our old childhood toys--ick. All of my dolls. Every last one, destroyed. My heart is a little broken. I may have to go fetch my chewed up, smelly Winnie-the-Pooh out of the garbage and try to salvage him.

Yes, our friends must be relieved now that their baby's leukemia is in remission. But how long does that hang over you? I don't know how much time must elapse before they declare her to be cured. Eh, I should still be reveling in the now, which is good news!

The tea party for your DH's grandma sounds so sweet! What a neat thing to do for her birthday.

Tan, I am feeling better, thanks for asking. Apparently I just needed a good weep, as it is now under control.

How are you? Really? And Mich? When you have time, of course!

Hope everyone is healing, and Little Blue's arrival goes smoothly!


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## lolalapcat

I appear to be talking to myself here....must go to Dell.com and order new computer for Mich, and send a nurse to Tan to help with sick family's recovery...

My parents decided yesterday to buy a lighter wheelchair (easier to get in and out of the trunk of the car), and to forgo purchasing the wheelchair accessible van. I'm still picking up the pieces from my head blowing up.

They are both in denial. Her condition is NOT static, at some point in the relatively near future she will need to be physically LIFTED in and out of the car, and she won't be able to assist in any way. This decision will leave Mom housebound, or Dad with a re-injured back. Or heaven forbid, both.

Not to mention the fact that now that the ALS is affecting Mom's left hand, they really ought to be shopping for an electric wheelchair.

Denial.

And they have decided they would like to try for the Boston trip, leaving from Detroit. I will go with them, and send DH home. Mom and I have talked about going there for years, so I am happy to be doing it, but....she is having continence issues, and getting that wheelchair in and out of the car...Mercy, it could be ugly.

Anyhoo. The good news is Mom's long term health care insurance will cover a lot of expenses, when they decide to start drawing on it. They got details on that yesterday.

Too much on my plate, too much. And I haven't felt well since yesterday morning--light headed, dizzy. Still having some problems today.

Blahblahblahblah.

Mich and Tan give all those boys a hug from me, including Little Pink and new Little Blue!


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

This is a quickie !!

Have u heard about a homeopathic remedy called Bach Rescue Remedy ? I think u need some. U sound so hectic, and it is all so overwhelming.

I think u r trying to put on a brave face, but under it all, u r struggling.

I wish i could help u.

I hope u r feeling better.

The sickies are getting better. Dh is back at work, and feeling soooo much better. Jamie is on his way. Still miserable and coughing a bit. BUt that cheeky smile still comes out !

Got to run. Jamie and I are still in pj's and it's nearly time to leave to take Tayga to school.

Chat later
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan, you wish you could help me? Fly over here and make me a pitcher of sangria! Or margaritas, or bloody marys....

I do feel better today, thanks. Yes, I am struggling, but struggling successfully.

Yesterday I located my Bach's Rescue Remedy. I'm having it for breakfast, spritzing it on my pulse points, and carrying the container next to my heart.

Lastnight was nice, we went to the Norah Jones concert. It was in a lovely old theater, beautiful lush lighting, gorgeous music. Wow! It was a very nice, relaxing time with my parents. It's too bad DH didn't want to go, he would have enjoyed the sheer musical talent.

Tonight I have to get my charts caught up,stickers and all. I've been charting on the back of an envelope. Tomorrow is the preop exam. Pap, pelvic, all that fun stuff. Yippee skippee.

Tan, I'm glad to hear your family is on the mend! Good job not getting sick yourself!

Mich, we miss you! Would it help if we sweet-talked your computer? And just when we could use a Little Blue update!

Gotta run.


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## lolalapcat

:

How am I supposed to maintain my un-lunatic-iness on my own? That surely can't be a reasonable expectation, can it?

Oh crap. Most people probably do maintain their sanity without a support group, don't they? Stupid overachievers!

Another late night. Miss Lola has had a little scab behind her ear for a few days, and last night she scratched it raw and was running around the house acting nutty. So at 9pm (no, it didn't start much earlier than that) I drove her 40 minutes, screaming all the way (her, not me!) to the emergency vet clinic. I do love those people!

I thought it was going to be ear mites, or an infection. But it's an abcess at the base of her ear. I am a bad cat momma, too busy to pay attention to my devoted kitties.









So meds for the next 10 days, checkup at that point, and possibly another 20 days of antibiotics. Now how in the living hell am I going to pull that off? I would have to board her while we are in Detroit, I guess. Absolutely not what I want to put Lola through. Sigh.

I don't think I can convince my brother to house/cat sit, I don't have cable tv or a hot tub or anything cool. My hand is revealed, now you won't want to come visit me.

Lola is calming down. She does not like that collar/head cone thingy one bit. Her efforts to remove it cost me some sleep last night. She is a poor navigator when running backwards at full speed. And poor DH had to be up at 5am.

I got my charts caught up last night, so I am sort of ready for the appt with Dr. Specialist. First a preop at the hospital, then physical exam with Dr. Ugh.

If I get started on the day, will it get over with faster? I'm going to try it.

Mich, I hope things are going well with Little Blue! Tan, are you staying busy?


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## Tan II

Keri, big hugs. You sound so stressed, and things sound so stressful in your house.

I hope Lola is ok.

How are u feeling about your appointment?

I have to run. THe usual story ..... still in pj's and have to get ready to take Tayga to school.

I'll come and chat properly later on in the day, after doing all my errands.








Tan


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## lolalapcat

Thanks for the hugs!

Yeah, I'm stressed, but I neutralized it some yesterday by shopping for pretty crystal wedding gifts. Ah, surrounded by lovely sparkly things....I bought myself a new crystal bowl too. Perfect for salads, or fruit or Christmas ornaments.

The 2 appointments went very well. The people at the hospital were very nice (except the PA who quizzed me on why I haven't had my thryroid taken out!?!!). Dr. World Specialist was all warm and fuzzy and friendly. Complete 180 degree difference from our first meeting with him, so now I am confused. Is he a jackass or a teddybear? He must have been having a bad day the first appointment.

I'm now familiar with the hospital, which eases my mind. But we have to be there at 5:15 in the morning, and it's slightly over an hour drive...eeeeeek!

Lola is all snuggled up next to me. I tried taking the collar/cone thingy off, but she immediately scratched at the spot, so it is back on. She is getting along pretty well with it. The meds are starting to kick in, the spot is less swollen. Thanks for your concern!

School still going okay for Tayga? Jamie walking yet? How are you doing? Updates, updates!

Miss you, Mich!


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## Mammax4

Hello!!















Have some more from me!

I don't want to speak too quickly, but I think I may have figured out the computer trouble... it is not only the children that have had viruses lately.

My life has been chaotic and lonely lately. I have missed you both!

Glad to hear your pre-op went well. Perhaps Dr. WS is a teddybear with jackass tendancies? Hopefully it is not the other way around. Although, I suppose if he is That good, and you are prepared for him to be an ass... better a skilled ass than a sloppy teddybear.

DH is recovering well. I must to needing to remember that not everyone gets up and going as quickly as I do. He will be off for 6 weeks, I hope he will be more functional sooner than later. The arrival of little blue at the same time as his surgery has left me solo with 5 kids. (plus a recovering DH) Little Pink has her nose out of joint a bit I think. She has been challenging over the last few weeks, with a large increase since Little Blue came home.

I will be away next week on Tues and Wed. I have to take Little Blue over to the mainland for some testing. I will be taking advantage of the IKEA store while I'm over there, getting in some retail therapy. I have to write an exam on Thursday and Will has his intro to Kindergarten that day too. Busy Busy.

Sorry to hear about Lola. I hope she is feeling better soon. It is sad when the animals are hurt or sick.

Could you stay over night at a hotel the day before your surgery? I suppose there is no guarentee that you will sleep anyway, but that is an awfully early morning!

How long until the cousins wedding? I hope your recovery time is well under way by then. I can't remember, but it seems to me it was quite soon after surgery. Glad to hear the invitations are all done, party is planned.

I will check in again tomorrow. Hope you both are doing well.

Mich.


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## lolalapcat

Mich is back, Mich is back!








I am sorry you are experiencing chaos and loneliness. I wish I could help more than just pining away for you here.

You have truly been Superwoman this week, tending your DH (I can't believe that's over with already! Glad he is okay), taking care of 5 kids, fixing the computer...good job, Mich!

Your DH will tend Little Pink while you are gone, or Dan will spearhead the tending effort? The chaos continues. Hang in there, it will all settle down soon.

I have been engaging in retail therapy also! Two peas in a pod! Merely 3 weeks until my own Ikea trip--my friends are giving me little shopping lists!

May I ask what kind of testing LB needs? How is he adjusting? Poor LP, her new routine is being thrown to the wind. She'll be okay when the dust settles, I hope.

We had a nice day yesterday. Took our godson to the zoo (along with his Mom) and had a lovely time. I took a bunch of photos, little G was so cute!

Then shopping--I bought a new dress for the wedding, but couldn't find shoes I liked. Back to the closet. The dress has a pretty bold pattern to wear to a wedding, but it's respectable--shoulders and knees will be covered! The wedding is in 2 weeks.

Then we went to the races. Tan, there were 2 drivers there from Australia! It was World of Outlaws on a dirt track, very fun to watch.

So today I will go work at my parents old house for a few hours. They will not be there, so it will be blessed peace. Then back to our house to finish laundry and lounge, maybe work on jewelry.

We considered staying at a hotel before the surgery, but it wouldn't save us all that much time. We'll just nap a lot when we get home!

He's doing a hysteroscopy also, dilating my cervix and inserting a scope. He will take cultures of the endometrium, and try to establish if I have low grade uterine infection. That can cause m/c. Is there no end?

So I am getting nervous. The hsg and laparascopy each had their own set of recovery issues, which weren't that bad. But both at the same time, along with hysteroscopy...I am concerned about the confluence of things from which to recover.

It will be over soon!








I hope your weekends have brought you both some peace and relaxation! Take care!


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## lolalapcat

Mich, I hope things are going well for you and Little Blue at the appointments. Also hope your DH is recovering rapidly.

Time is moving so slowly. I would like the surgery over with, but it's only Tuesday.

I miss you two!!!


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

THis week has been a write off !! Monday was a public holiday - the Queen's birthday ! So it's been a short week. I have also been feeling a bit coldy. My family shared their germs with me ! I can't stand the runny nose !

How are you doing ? It's nearly over.

Jamie has started walking ! YAY !!! He isn't walking all the time, but he'll stand up and walk a bit. Then crawl again. It's just the beginning ! Beginning of my running around ! Ha ha. He looks so cute.

Going to get a pill for my sinuses. I hate the headache I get.

I hope u r feeling ok. I'll come back to chat later on.

Mish, I hope all is ok with you and your crew.

Chat soon
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Hi, Tan!

I am sorry you are not feeling well. Hopefully the pill stopped the cold symptoms in their tracks!

Hooray for Jamie!







Yes, the chase is on, Tan, put on your running shoes!

Tomorrow by this time the surgery may be over. Finally. I'm already feeling a little relieved! I don't really enjoy anticipation all that much. Maybe that's why I like reading about history, I already know how it's going to turn out!

Belated Happy Birthday to the Queen! Dumb question, is it Queen Elizabeth whose birthday you celebrate? Or some other past queen? Please tell me you made a birthday cake! Hmm. I guess I should do that on Washington and Lincoln's birthdays.

Mich, I hope all of Little Blue's testing went well. 2 days, that's a lot of testing. Can you tell us the nature of the testing?

How are you doing with DH being at home? How is his recovery going?

Take care, friends!


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## Tan II

Keri, I can't believe the time has arrived already.

GOOD LUCK. I am thinking of you and sending you lots of good vibes.

Please let me know how u r when u have a chance.

I hope it all goes well.








Tan


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I hope everything went well, and you are feeling ok.

Are u ok?

Mish, how r things going in your house ? How are Little blue and Little pink doing ? How r the boys ? Is dh feeling ok ?

I have got the tail end of a cold. Can't seem to get rid of it. It's driving me mad. I either have a runny nose, or a blocked nose.

It's a freezing cold weekend. DH and Tayga are having a bonding weekend, and have gone away together.

Hope you have a good weekend.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Just a quick note.

Surgery went okay, Doc found more endometriosis and lasered it out. I'll learn more at the appointment next week. I think DH said the Doc thought there was evidence of an infection in my uterus, but I have been in lala land, so will have to ask him again.

My abdomen is really, really swollen this time around, so I'm sitting around with an ice pack on it. And oddly enough, my vision is all blurry. Is that a side effect of anesthesia?

I'm sorry you have an unshakeable cold, Mich! Get well soon.

That's very sweet of your DH to spend one on one time with Tayga. There not camping out in the freezing cold, are they?

Thanks for thinking about me, I think I should go lay down.


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I hope you are feeling ok and that you aren't so swollen. I hope dh gave u lots of TLC.

Got to run. Will come and chat later.

Tan


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## Mammax4

It has been very chaotic here lately. All are well. DH is recovering nicely. Little Pink is having some real adjustment issues right now. She's not too happy to have Little Blue here. Jealous like crazy; she is being physically aggressive with me, throwing temper tantrums and being very defiant. Little Blue is growing like a weed. He had put on about 1 1/2 pounds in a week of being with us. His sleeping schedule is settling nicely. The trip to Children's Hospital was brutal. He was a trooper getting through it all, but my goodness....

Glad to hear all went well with surgery Keri. I don't know if blurred vision is a side effect or not, something worth talking to your Dr. about.

I hope your cold is gone now Tan. How are the boys?

Must run, have to motivate the boys for school. Not for much longer though... this is Dan's last week, Chris has two more weeks.








Mich


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## lolalapcat

Tan, it appears I called you Mich in my last post....sorry about that! I hope your cold is completely gone now!

I'm feeling better incrementally. Today I am noticeably less swollen. Still don't feel real whiffy, so I'm probably staying home again today.

One more day of antibiotics, which is great, since they disrupt my system. Grrr.

I took Lola's head cone off today---she is so happy! So far, so good...she has been scratching at the ear itself, but not the spot that was abcessed.

Now our dog has a urinary tract infection. Poor DH, he noticed that the day of the surgery and got the dog to the vet on Saturday. It's such a bad time for us to be traveling.

Too much to do, getting ready for the upcoming events.

Well, I hope that everything is going well for both of you. Tan, is Jamie still practicing walking, or is he running yet? Mich, how are your boys, and the Littles?

I don't know, maybe I'll go to work for a couple of hours....


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## lolalapcat

Today is going to be a better day. Each day has been, but so far today I haven't had any pain. Woohoo!

I've got things to do, I have to feel better!

I'm particularly pleased that the abdominal swelling is going down, as it was pretty darn noticeable. The LAST thing I want is people at the wedding asking me if I'm pregnant. Homicide is frowned on at weddings.









Hope you are both doing okay! Check in when you get time!


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I'm glad to hear you are feeling better and less swollen. Yes, homicide is not a good party trick at any function ! Ha ha ! (But I understand).

When do u get your results ? What's the next step?

Can't get rid of this cold. It's hanging around. Driving me mad !

Jamie is walking a bit now. He'll get up and walk a few steps, then crawl again. I'm sure he'll e walking all the time, soon !! He needs to get his confidence up, because he can do it.

Dh and Tayga had a great weekend away together. No, they didn't go camping. Way too cold ! They went to Sydney for the weekend. It was great bonding time for them, without any distractions and bad behaviour.

Mish, I hope all is ok. I'm sure you have your hands full with a busy house.

Going to eat breakfast !

Chat soon
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan, I am sorry you are still battling the cold. That's frustrating, when colds won't go away! I'm sending you healthy vibes)))))))))))








It is so good to hear that Tayga is doing soooo much better, behaviorally. Kudos to this year's teacher, the drama therapy, and parents who kept trying to find a solution!!!

Tomorrow morning is the follow up appt, complete with video.uke
Lastnight I found the photos that the doc gave to DH. Lots of sinister little endo spots.

I made it through most of the work day yesterday. If I wasn't a dolt I would have thought to take a couple more ibuprofen, and I would have made it through the whole day!

Today all normalcy explodes. My aunt from North Carolina is flying in, and will be around for the next couple of weeks. I love her dearly (she is my other godmother) but she is even more control freaky than my Mom. Poor Dad. They in particular like to control what we eat and how we drive. Like we can't do those things on our own!

Ah, cheeky Jamie! That reminds me of the twins I used to babysit when I was a teenager. Little girl twin never did learn to crawl. She inched along on her tummy, and maybe around 15 or 16 months started to walk. Family thought she might be a bit developmentally delayed. She just earned her master's degree a few months ago.

Get well, Tan!

Mich, we miss you! Updates...we need updates. The boys, your DH, the Littles, your sister, your BIL, the construction project, your head.....


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

How was your appointment? How r u feeling?

How is your Aunt ? Taking over your life yet ? Where is she staying ?

I am feeling much better. Been on antibiotics for 2 full days now. As I get better, I realise how bad I felt.

Not much news. Cold today. Brrrr. I hate being cold !

Tan


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## Mammax4

As the 'norm' for me these days, I have had a major increase in things to do land in my lap. The courses I am taking were put on hold when I found out I was pg last year. I had received some bursary monies for them and had been granted an extension due to circumstances. Well, I got a phone call telling me the plan we had made is no longer okay. I have to complete all 4 courses by the end of August. (AAAHHHH!) All right, now that is off my chest...

Things are moving along here. Never a dull moment.... I have to go to Vancouver again next week, though just a day trip this time. Little Pink may be on the home stretch of time with us, we will have to see if it is all talk or not. Little Blue may not be with us for very long, he has two siblings and they like to keep families together. So we may be in for some more transitions in the next few months. (I will be de-stressing then I'm sure... I can't imagine what it will be like when they leave.)

Tan, I am sorry to hear that you are still in the midst of a cold. It has been a really bad year for that here, lots of them and nasty ones that seem to hang on forever.

Keri, good to hear that you are less bloated. I will be sending flatter tummy thoughts to you. It would be not such a good thing to commit homicide, although I think if you wore your Lunatic shirt that might help. Here's to hoping for smart, sensitive people being the majority of those attending the wedding.

So tell me Keri, was it fluffy like an angora sweater?? Are you offering private viewings? Can I bring popcorn? What was the outcome? Yes, I really would watch a video of insides - although admittedly it would be more interesting if it was someone I knew. Yes, I am sick but I can't help it!

So, I must fess up, it was my birthday last weekend. I got the most surprising gift.... A Ring!! I have one with Dan's birthstone, one with DH's birthstone and Chris is Diamond which are on both. Now I have Will's birthstone and it has Chris' too! I was totally shocked. DH is not a jewelry guy.

Will had his intro to Kindergarten last week. It went well, so I heard. I couldn't go unfortunately. He came home excited about his new friend and telling us how he ate all kinds of yummy food there. DH took him and said Will did very well. I called the Principal about placement for Will, I had some wants and concerns. I am hoping my familiarity with the Administration will help with getting what I want. (smarmy aren't I?)

Dan is having a hard time finding somewhere to work. His age is an issue. No one wants a 14 year old. I have offered to have him work for me this summer, we can't see handing over the $$ required for his trip to Japan next year. Not when we don't go too far away as a family. It works well with my new change in timeline too, I can maybe get a good amount of homework done during the day. I wrote my first exam on Tuesday. Yikes, it has been a long time.

Chris has another week of school left. I am not sure why they bother though. He is going swimming tomorrow and to the waterslides next week. There isn't any work going on anymore, just putting in time required for each school year I suppose.

DH is doing well. He has issues with lifting things still, but aside from that he is 'good to go'. He has cooked dinner a couple of times for me lately, that has been a big help. His being at home is making it easier to manage the Little's appointments. Pink has a hearing test tomorrow.

I had the Little's in for some vaccinations on Wednesday. That was not the most pleasant experience. They are both behind on them, so had some catching up to do. Pink had *5* and Blue had 3. Pink did very well, she was such a trooper. Blue too, though he didn't have the same awareness of another one coming. Pink was getting concerned about Blue getting his needles, maybe that will lead to a turning point for her acceptance of him. It has been much better the last few days. I have been trying some new ways of dealing with her, I'm not sure if they are working or it is coincidence. I don't need to look a gift horse in the mouth though.

It looks like I am going to take a holiday after all this summer. We had not planned to go anywhere, but I think I will take the boys and go visit my parents. It will be nice and hot there, like summer that we are not really having here. My sister is going to meet us there with her 2 boys. I will need you both to get me in the right space to be with her for a week.... (thanks in advance for dealing with my insanity)

Well, that is what is going on right now. My head is busy beyond belief at the moment. I have so much to do and not so much time to do it in. There isn't anything icky in my head - aside from seeing my sister. I have 3 pg women in my face a the moment right now. Two of them have moved into the very noticable pg category for a while now. Holding Little Blue sometimes makes it better/worse. Seeing how my boys are with him can be hard at times. They are so gentle and loving with him, Will is especially overt in his affection. (I love you 'little blue')

I suppose I best drag myself off to bed. I know I will be awake sooner than I would choose to be. Little Blue wakes up once before 6am. Oh to have a solid night sleep again... one day.





























Just because ...

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Mich, it's so nice to hear from you! I was starting to get just a little worried. Mainly that your computer had self-destructed!

Happy Belated Birthday!







: What a nice gift! Your DH was very thoughtful. Isn't it nice when they come out of left field on a gift?

Tan, I am glad you went to the doctor and are feeling better! Hope you get to 100% soon. Bundle up!

No, my uterus wasn't fluffy like an angora sweater! I think it was too early in the cycle, the endometrium was at its thickest point. My right ovary was developing a follicle--you can see it on the video. So I was on about day 14.

The appointment yesterday was really, really good. Get this---a doctor listed the things he found wrong that could cause m/c, and the things he found that could contribute to m/c. And he listed off the treatment plan for each thing. I almost cried.

The doctor said he is really excited about our case, because he thinks we have a really good chance of having a successful pregnancy once everything is treated.

This, after a couple of specialists who said "you're fine, go get pregnant again." The relief is enormous. I can't even quite express it. It's so different to feel justified hope, instead of blind optimism. Can you believe the words hope and optimism just came out of my head?

Oh, and my uterus? Had these little filaments, like tiny stalactites. He called them 'micro-polyps' and said they were a sign of a chronic, subacute uterine infection.

Mich, want me to send you the video? It actually was quite interesting, especially the little filament laser vaporizing the endometriosis!

I saw my appendix! Bonus!

You know, my Dad so needs a neighborhood kid to help him with the mowing. It's an acreage that he is determined to keep manicured, and the only other neighborhood kid who used to help has grown up and gotten himself a truck and a girlfriend. If only Dan wasn't so far away!

Classes, transition, visit with sister....your summer sounds kind of rough. I'll do whatever I can to help!

Tan, I'm still quite uncomfortable, and very tired of it. (Taking a small moment to say a prayer for people who live with chronic pain.) Pants with buttons hurt. Now how am I supposed to get along in life without pants?

Thanks for asking! Oh, Aunt's flight was canceled due to storms in Chicago, so she actually flew in yesterday. I was so busy with appointments, pharmacies, busy day at work, and then meeting up with friend's sister to work on the scrapbook page for the inlaws' guest book....I haven't seen her yet!

I did manage to buy an adorable pair of leopard print sandals, though. Priorities, you know!

Take care, friends!


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## Mammax4

My computer has not yet hit the point of self destruct. I on the other hand am close to throwing it out the window. I have too many things to do to spend so much time trying to fix it. I suppose that should lead me to the nearest good fix-it shop, but I am pig-headed about this. (not for much longer though)

Thanks for the B-day wish. I don't think I know either of your b-days, not off the top of my head anyway...could I have a refresher please?

I would watch your inside bits and pieces on tv, it's up to you whether you want to send a copy or not. My DH would thank you to not send one. ;-)

I will have to catch up later. LB needs some attention.

Glad it's the weekend. I think I will be taking this piece o'crap to the fix it place. I can't do anything with it. I can't even get a smilie to work!

Mich


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## Tan II

Mish, you naughty fox you ! Happy Birthday !! I hope you had a great day and got spoilt. How thoughtful of dh. Jewellery is always a nice gift.
My b-day is 20 Feb. I'm a pisces ! What is your exact date? R u gemini?

Keri, I'm so excited with your news. It must have been music to your ears. What's the next step ?
How do you feel ? What does dh say ?

I am feeling so much better. Nearly finished my course of antibiotics.

Jamie is walking so nicely. He looks SO cute !! He is so impressed with himself ! Nevermind walking, today he tried running !!!One step at a time Jamie !

Tayga has been so amazing the past few days. More receptive, calmer, more emotive and expressive.

We went to a 40th b-day party 2 weeks ago. The theme was a moment in time. (from your life). You had to dress-up from an era or a moment in your life. I went in my wedding dress !!! Most of the women at the party told me I was a bitch that I could still fit into my wedding dress ! Ha, ha !!!!
I had SOOOO much fun. I can't remember the last time I had such a good time. I'll email u some pics.

I'm off to shower and sleep.

Have a great weekend.
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan, it's so good to hear such positive things about your boys! Tayga has undergone quite the transformation.

The party sounds like it was a ton of fun! Hooray for still fitting in your wedding dress! It would be nice to have an excuse to wear the thing again. Mine's in a box in the basement, but at some point I think I'm going to hang in on a hanger on a wall somewhere. I paid for it, I might as well be able to look at it!

Okay, must type fast. I'm playing hooky at work, and the phone won't stop ringing!

Surgery, check. Wedding, check. One more weekend of craziness, then we get to relax!

700 miles in a car with a seatbelt across my surgical site was kinda unpleasant, but not too bad. Bloating had subsided, so I looked pretty darn normal in a dress. No homicides occurred.

My Mom was beastly crabby, so I'm pretty much putting the kibosh on going to Boston after we leave Detroit. Detroit is a 12 hour drive from here, I suppose Boston is another 10-12 hours one way, and I'm not signing up to spend that much time with Mom. I feel kinda bad, as it might be her last vacation, but she cannot treat us that way and still have us go out of our way for her.

As soon as we get back from the anniversary party, I'm going to force Dad to call about some home health care and house cleaning. He needs it as much as Mom does. His sanity is going to slip away if we aren't more proactive about this.

Mich, do you need help with homework? I'm afraid your computer is in the shop and we won't hear from you for a while, but that would probably help you stay focused on your classes. I hate sharing!

Tan, DH and I are both excited and relieved, to hear that we can be so proactive about avoiding another m/c. The next step is to start the thyroid treatment, and then the iv antibiotics. We are still waiting to hear back about the cultures of the endometrium, so no antibiotics until then. I am supposed to call in a week and a half if we haven't heard from the clinic. And I will start on the estrogen during my next cycle.

But nothing will happen until I'm back from Detroit. I want it over with!

Okay, back to work I go. Take care, friends!


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## Mammax4

A quick check in....

I am surrounded by vomiting children right now. LP started and LB has apparently decided to follow. Increase in laundry... not great!!

Homework is not getting done. I have to go to Vancouver again on Wednesday. (more tests) LB may not be here much longer, there are 2 siblings they are trying to place them all together.

DH is hanging around, starting to try my sanity... I have all these things to do with kids/courses/house and he is sitting here doing nothing all day. He said he could fold laundry for me, but there it sits yet another day. Perhaps I should let him run out of skivvies and see if that is a great motivator.

My Mom is being cowish... 'yes, it would be great to see you this summer'--followed by a snotty 'well we probably won't have the house finished you know!' I wish she would either turn it on or off. I get frustrated with the manic up and downs with her. My sister is going to meet me there, so we get a visit even if Dad isn't there. The boys will have a blast being all together again.

I am glad to hear there was no cause for homicide. I don't know how quickly I could fly down on my broomstick to spring you from the joint! Sorry your Mom was being so nasty.(is it going around?) Good for you for not carrying on to Boston. No need for that additional stress. I am glad to hear a proactive plan is being set up for you.

Tan, I am very excited to hear Tayga is stepping out in a positive light. I can imagine it makes daily life more relaxed and fun. And a running Jamie!!! Wow!! You go boy! How about you? yoga?

Well, I should probably not press my luck any further. I have LB in my arm, he hasn't thrown up on the computer yet.... as much as I feel like chucking it out the window, I think it will be that much more difficult to have someone fix it if it stinks like vomit! Not to mention this one handed typing sucks!

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Oh, Mich, I do feel sorry for you, and the poor sick babies. I do hope they get to feeling better soon.

Wish I was there to help, but I don't actually qualify as a good housekeeper these days.

How is it going to go, LB leaving? It sounds like your boys are quite fond of him, and I know seeing them interact with him tugged your heartstrings.

Would you like me to fly up there on my broom and give your DH a swift kick in the hiney? When does he go back to work? Pile the laundry on him.

The nastiness here is not going around. My Dad has adopted a do-nothing approach to Mom's attitude, and I certainly am not going to feed into it. My DH is severely biting his tongue, as it is starting to wear on him, seeing Mom treat Dad and me this way. It started in the bathroom of the church before the wedding, and continued at the reception, so it's not that I have a policy of silence, it just was not the place to call her on it.

I'm going to check on the local ALS resources, and see if they can recommend some counseling. This can't be all that unusual because being in Mom's position would suck. But my empathy does not extend to letting her treat me like crap, and honestly, Dad's head is going to blow off his body soon.

Classes. August. I'd plunk the sick babies on your DH (instead of the laundry) and tell him what needs to be done. Then go work on your classwork. The deadline is really close. Ooof. I'm not saying my plan will work, but it's worth a try.

Is your Mom trying to get you to stay elsewhere, or is she embarrassed by the incomplete house? I'm sorry your Mom is making things harder. Note to selves, do not be like our difficult Moms.

I'm off to try to get to work early. We have a lot to do, and not so much time to work with. Ugh, like your classes!

Tan, are you staying warm? You're having to chase after Jamie now, that's gotta get the blood flowing!

Hang in there!


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## Tan II

Mish, I hope lb and lp are better.

Men don't get subtle hints. Uless it's a big sign flashing in their faces, they just don't get it. Yip, I'm talking from experience !
Although dh is getting better at getting the hint ! After many bitchy comments from me !. Well, they got to learn sometime !

Today was freezing and raining. I did manage to stay warm.
Jamie is enjoying the freedom of walking. He looks so cute. It's so strange to see him walking around !

I have just come home from yoga. My forst class in 2 weeks after being sick. It was awesome.
Keri, did u ever try your dvd ? Although I have to admit that doing a class is better. I got a dvd the other day, and I hated it. It was so boring !

Going to have a cup of tea and a piece of apple cake that I baked earlier.

Chat soon
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Mich, I too hope LB & LP are better, and none of the rest of you have gotten sick!

Tan, I haven't done the dvd. It sits by the tv and stares at me, making me feel flabby and guilty. Hopefully when life settles down a bit.....yeah, like that's ever going to happen!

Actually though, when it gets really hot I will start working in the basement again, sorting and disposing of Stuff. And then I'll set up a workout area down there, which may motivate me more.

I have dropped a couple of pounds, being on the infamous doxycycline diet. My digestive system is still all riled up, which is no fun. Yogurt, yogurt, yogurt.

The extreme course of antibiotics The Doc wants to put me on for the uterine infection makes me really nervous. Antibiotics have always upset my stomach and digestive tract, so it sounds like long-term discomfort to me. Doc said they would work to find something I could tolerate better.

Tea and apple cake--that sounds perfect! I think hubby is making a key lime pie tonight, but apple cake sounds better. Not that I'll tell him that!

It's about 10 degrees cooler here today, so we are going to take advantage of it and do as much work as possible. Off I go!


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## lolalapcat

:

Double posting again. It's kinda like getting caught talking to myself. Or worse yet, singing to myself!

We are leaving for Detroit in the morning, so I had to touch base. Sanity check!

So the uterine culture came back positive for chlamydia.

Am I so dumb that it didn't occur to me a uterine infection would probably be an STD? Apparently so.

The bad decisions of my youth have come back to haunt me. I hate this.

The only people I am telling this to are on this board. So I guess I am telling the world, but oddly enough, I trust the women on this board so very much.

Well, I have told my DH, obviously. He is so good at not beating himself up.

All those years of annual exams, every year I would get tested for STDs. Never had one, as I was very careful, except in committed relationships. And I find it now.

I am so embarrassed, I haven't even searched to find more information about chlamydia/uterine infection/miscarriage. Our computer remembers everything.

Well, thanks for letting me spill it out here. I'm trying to get this regret-embarrassment-guilt bullsh!t out of my system, so I don't stew for 12 hours on the road tomorrow.

I'll probably be back on the 4th....traveling again, on the anniversary of our first m/c. Hopefully we can schedule in something fun on our Independence Day, if I get back soon enough.

Mich, I hope things have settled down for your household. Tan, I've heard about record cold in Australia, stay bundled up!


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## Tan II

Keri, please don't beat yourself up about something that happened so long ago. We were all young and stupid. We all did things that looking back at, I'm sure we regret. I know I do.

Let's rather look forward and get you better.

Make peace and move on.

I hope u have a safe trip. I want to hear all the details when u get back !
I don't want to read about you on the 'crime report', so behave !!!









Tayga is on school holidays for 2 weeks from today. Yay, I don't have to rush in the mornings !!

I'm a bit worried about him. His friend came over for a play and we were chatting. THe conversation led to friends and Tayga. Apparently he fights with the kids. He says it's to defend himself. So my concern is ..... is he being bullied or his he the bully ?







:

I'm off to enjoy some peace and quiet while Jamie sleeps. Once he's awake it's full-on !!!!

Chat soon
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Thanks, Tan, I do appreciate it. Regret is not something I typically waste my energy on, so I'll pick myself up soon. Not today, but soon.

If I were you I would try to gather more info on Tayga's situation....talk to the friend's mom, the teachers, playground monitors. That would be troublesome.

Mich, Happy Canada Day on Sunday! I'll stand in Detroit and wave across the river to you.

Okay, I've got to go finish things. My backup cd for photos is done burning, so it's time to finish packing and cleaning.

Talk to you next week!


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I've just re-read my post to u. I hope I didn't sound harsh. That wasn't my intention.

Tan


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

I'm not sure when u get back. How was it ???

Mish, how is your full-house ? LB and LP still with u ?

School holidays started yesterday for 2 weeks. So far, so good !!

Chat soon
Tan


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## Tan II

Happy 4th of July !!


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## lolalapcat

Tan, thanks for the happy wishes! I love Independence Day. I hope to get in a nap, then go socialize with friends and watch fireworks.

No, you weren't harsh with me. I always want you to be honest. You often have a different perspective, and get me to slow down and think. I so appreciate that! You and Mich are like the little angel and devil sitting on my shoulders, except you are both angels!

The trip to Detroit was exhausting, but good. The party was a smashing success! My in laws were sooo happy, smiling, crying, laughing. It was fabulous, and worth every second of planning.

Then Monday MIL, Mom and I shopped like madwomen. Beads, of course! And Ikea, oh, the wonder of Ikea. I have new curtains, bed coverlets, wall mirrors. It was so fun!

We drove straight through both ways, over 12 hours. Ooof. My hiney is paralyzed.

Mich, I hope all is well with your gaggle of children. Do you still have LB and LP? When are you going to visit your family? Where is that again? Please let it be over Nebraska, please let it be over Nebraska. I would drive north and crash your party! Must get passport.

Tan, thanks for the notes! Enjoy your holidays with Tayga! Did you find out anymore about the problems at school?

Talk to you again soon!


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## lolalapcat

Just thought maybe you needed some.

Tan, I hope you're having fun on school vacation! Stay warm!

Mich, I'm going to fly my broom up there and put a hex on your computer! Or an anti-hex....

DH is going shopping today for fancy probiotics. Doc wanted me on them for 2 weeks before starting this course of doxy, but I'm in limbo right now and want to get started. I need to find info on the thyroid treatment, I think I'm supposed to coincide that with a new cycle, so I have to wait. Won't start the estrogen for another week (if I actually know where I am at in the cycle, which is pretty iffy). Need to do something!

We visited friends yesterday, watched our godson play in the pool, had cocktails. Then went to pick up the dog, visited more, another glass of wine. It was nice.

Then we drove home and watched fireworks along the way. I would have sat on the porch and watched the neighbors setting off fireworks, but couldn't stay awake. Old, that's what I am!

It's going to be a hot one. These are the dog days, we are not air conditioned at work (yet!). And oh, do we have a lot to do! So off I go to get this day over with.

Take care, friends!


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## Mammax4

I am feeling disconnected and out of touch with this darned computer. I am hoping the fix will be complete early next week. If the computer needs to go in to the shop, I may go crazy. (or at least crazier!)

Keri, glad to hear that your trip went well. IKEA and bead shopping!! Oh how I wish I could have been there! I hope your everything is settling down from your surgery. I imagine the added complication of antibiotics to mess with your system may well draw out the feeling better stage.

Unfortunately, I am not going to be in Nebraska. Not even leaving the province, let alone the country. Don't think it didn't cross my mind though...I will be about 8 hours closer to where you are....







:

Yes, LP and LB are still here. It doesn't look like LP will be leaving anytime soon. The fall will bring more word on what her plan will be. LB will be leaving mid-month, he will be joining his siblings in another foster home. It will be a sad moment, I am trying to prepare the boys for it. More Will than Dan and Chris, I think Will is going to be more obviously impacted by LB's departure.

Tan, I too am in the school holiday mode. In fact, everyone in my house except ME is on holidays!! The boys are excited about our trip to Grand Forks to see my parents. Dan is still applying like crazy trying to get a job...if only he was 15 it would be so much easier. A lot of companies have policy around no one younger than 15. How are the boys doing?

I am going to see the Dr tomorrow. My arm is wrecked again. (still) Our new Dr thinks I either tore or partially tore my bicept muscle last summer. It is acting up more than normal at the moment. It is good timing for me to get in, I think I have a bladder infection too. It is odd timing to have this come up. I am approaching one year this weekend for the miscarriage. My urine test came up positive for a bladder infection just before my miscarriage. (sigh)

I hope you are both well. I will do my best to check in... it takes patience and more time than I have lately to get this darned computer to bring me here. Glad to be home.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Oh, Mich...









Anniversaries are so hard. And what a creepy coincidence, coming up with a bladder infection exactly a year later.

It seems like longer than a year since we have been talking, doesn't it? I feel like I have known the two of you forever.

I'm glad you are seeing a doctor about the ongoing wounded arm. That's a long time to not know what was wrong! Please keep us posted on what the doctor says, if you can get the computer to cooperate!

Perhaps you could hire Dan to help with housework? Things outside his regular chores, anyway. He does have regular chores, doesn't he?

Oh, I wish Dan were here. Honestly, my Dad would hire him! Actually I just noticed our hedge needs to be trimmed. I'd probably hire him too.

A neighbor kid of my folks went door to door, passing out fliers that detailed the sort of work he would do for cash. He mowed for my Dad for maybe 4 summers, worked for the neighbors cleaning out their horse barn....

Some of my Ikea purchases: summer coverlets for the twin guest beds, curtains for the big guest room, a full length mirror for the guest quarters... the two of you should come check them out!







: And of course bring your families. We can come up with lots of boy stuff for them to do. (Girl stuff for LP, if you still have her and she can travel to other countries!)

Give LB a big gentle hug from me. He is so lucky to be showered with all the love from you and your family, even if it is only for a short time. And I'm sure it was bittersweet to see your boys so taken with a baby.








Just for good measure.

Take care this weekend, Mich. I'll be thinking of you, holding you in my heart.

Tan, I picture you putting together puzzles with Tayga, and chasing Jamie when he steals pieces...is this anywhere near reality?


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## lolalapcat

Mich, you're in my thoughts.

I dug through old threads and found your 'I Wish' post, as that's where we first met. We have certainly come a long way....










I wish things had turned out differently for you. Yes, I know that means we wouldn't have met. But still.....

It's a hot, hot day here. I must clean more of the house, then go work at my parents' old house for awhile.

We are monitoring our dog. He had blood in his urine a couple of weeks ago, so the local vet treated him for a UTI. Yesterday, more blood. DH took him to the better vet in Lincoln (better because they focus on house pets rather than livestock) and it's not kidney disease, which is a good thing. But he has an u/s scheduled for tomorrow evening, to see if it may be a tumor or bladder cancer.

He's 11, and the average life expectancy for his breed is 10 years. But he's acting good, so we are holding out hope.

I unloaded all of the beads my MIL kindly and generously bought for me. Will take requests, the beads are barely fitting in the giant tackle box now!

Thinking of both of you, hoping the weekend treats you well.

Keri


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## lolalapcat

Hi!









So our dog is scheduled for surgery, a week from Thursday. He has a mass in his left testicle, and a funny looking spot in his (enlarged) prostate. The vet is quite sure the spot in the prostate is NOT cancerous, but is suspicious of the testicle. So at the ripe old age of 11, Roms is getting neutered.

The neutering will reduce his testosterone levels, which will cause the prostate to shrink. That should eliminate the blood in the urine, which is caused by an infection in the prostate.

Long gland-filled story! But it's good news, considering the options. And since Roms handled the surgery so well last summer, the vet is sure he will do well this time around.

DH and I started our 2 week course of doxycycline. I'm doing my level best to take it on an empty stomach, as is suggested. Ugh. But drinking lots of water seems to neutralize the burning in the stomach, so it's not too bad. Yet.

Someone sent DH a pound of Kona coffee from Hawaii, so I'm actually using coffee as a neutralizer this morning! I hope that's okay....

Mich, I was hoping your computer had been resuscitated by now! It really did have a meltdown, didn't it? I miss you!

Tan, I hope you're having fun with your boys during the school holiday!


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## Tan II

Hi Keri

Sorry to have neglected you. The holidays are taking up all my time.

It's been fun, but hectic.

I hope Roms is ok. When is the surgery ?

How r u doing?

Chat soon
Tan


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## lolalapcat

Tan, I knew you were busy with the boys---what have all of you been doing?

The dog's medication is now working, which doesn't seem to have much of an impact on him, but keeps me from having to clean up the bloody drips. Vast quality of life improvement.

His surgery is the 19th. Same day as my follow up with Skin Doc. I'm pretty sure that's the last time I will go to him. He has never once suggested that I schedule an appointment to do a general body check, to see if I have carcinomas growing anywhere else....and I guess I want him to be invested in my overall health. It seems there should be a protocol to follow with skin cancer patients, and I don't want to be the one to establish said protocol!

I'm okay. Too busy, as usual. We have all kinds of visitors this week at work. Customers who have become friends. It's fun, but we really really have lots of work to do, and we are on a schedule.

And one of DH's best friends from the Army is in town---they lost touch several year ago, since both were moving at the same time. Scott got to work, and Pat was standing in the hangar! Very very cool. Anyway, I think we are entertaining tonight, and this weekend, and for the next three weeks while he and his crew are here.

So I really must stop typing, and pick up a bit more!

Take care, friends!


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## Mammax4

WOW! Towards the middle of page 2?!? I still have computer issues. We are going to have to have someone come in here to see about fixing it.

I have been busy getting little blue off to his siblings and settling in from that. I had a steroid shot in my shoulder a week and a half ago, it was suppose to take a week to start working.... still waiting.

My bladder infection was confirmed by the Dr. He called in a prescription for antibiotics for me. I told DH that the office had called with my test results...made the mistake of asking him 'guess what'... he said 'We're having a baby'. There are some times that I wonder why I am here, or how did I not whack him over the head with a hard object of some kind. There are times when I feel so uninvested and unconnected that I don't even shake my head because I don't know why I bother.

Anyway.

I hope that Roms is okay Keri. Best wishes for his surgery tomorrow. How is your Doxy stuff coming?

Yes, our boys do have chores. They do dishes, garbages, poop scoop and mow the lawn plus they keep their rooms tidy. (that kind of goes without saying...although some days I have to harp a bit) Will feeds the kitties.

I made zucchini muffins last night. Took some over to the family of the first of 3 babies born. Had some time of torture/snuggle with the new baby, she is lovely. I am having some huge anxious issues with seeing my sister. I last spoke to her a few days ago, she is having boys (one for sure, the other they were confident was a boy, but not definate). She said she looks almost term. I wasn't really prepared for that. I was stupidly thinking she would still be in that looking chubby stage. (breathe deeply...) I think I will have to jump on the vodka wagon and constantly wear my lunatic shirt. It honestly just tugs at me in a deep part of my gut to hear her refer to 'the twins'.

I will have to search out the 'I wish' thread Keri. That was certainly a while ago. I imagine it is quite raw, that was certainly how I felt. I agree we have come a long way from then. It does seem there is so much more to go to get back to before, but I don't think you ever do. Kind of like a drug used for the first time, the illusive search for that first time over and over again. I am stuck trying to get the innocence lost to reverse itself.

I had a funny phone call the other day. It was a good friend of my real Mom's. I had spoken to her about 4 years ago, her daughter (a friend of mine growing up) had gone missing and was presumed dead. I called to extend my sympathies to her. I hadn't heard from her since then. She wants to come and see me. It will be sort of weird, I haven't seen her in person for about 20 years. (her daughter was never found and has been classified as missing with foul play suspected)

Enough of this morbid crap. Good head space for holidays hey? I am going on holidays from the 20th until the 29th. I may be able to sneak on the computer at my parent's house. I will do my darndest for sure!

We have another child coming to us the week after we get back. It will be LB2. Hopefully the transition goes well. I met another foster mom today, it looks like we will have a chance for a regular playdate. She seems nice and has been fostering for 4 years, so could provide some experienced insight.

Good luck at the Dr's tomorrow Keri. I hope it goes well. Would you consider asking him if the rest of your body needs to be checked out?

Tan, I am glad to hear you are having fun with the boys and keeping busy. Holidays do tend to get that way.

Take care my friends. I will try and check in before I leave.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Micheline, you are back!









Why why WHY would your DH say that? I can appreciate an attempt at humor, but for the love of freakin' Pete in a bucket, why would he go THERE!??!?

It sounds like you are having some ongoing issues with DH...what is going on? Has his surgical recovery time at home been a contributing factor?

Oh, you are so surrounded by babies. I am so sorry that the timing is such. And along with the visit to your sister---you may need to make up a wardrobe of RL shirts, sweetie. Just as a sanity anchor.

You can always cut the visit a bit short if you need to, since LP and LB2 will be in temporary care. Play the guilt card.

Mich, I'll make you a deal. I'll ask the skin doc about a full body check if you ask your real Mom's friend some of the questions that nag at you.

How is it that she has stayed in touch with you? That is so...I'm not sure what it is. Awesome that she is invested.

I want to sit here and type for hours, but I have to get rolling to the skin doc appt. And pick up meds for the kitties, and potentially pick up Roms, although they will probably want to keep him most of the day for observation.

Doxy is starting to give me trouble. I haven't been taking my probiotics and enzymes as regularly as I should be. We have had company for dinner the last 2 nights, which means I have been cleaning the last 2 mornings...run, run, run, that's all we have been doing. I am exhausted.








Thanks for checking in, Mich. I have missed you tremendously.


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## lolalapcat

Mich--

Thinking of you while you are traveling, and visiting with your family.

Lots of these are coming your way









If we weren't getting ready for this trip to New Mexico, I would take off and try to meet you somewhere. Stupid schedule.

Oh, I got the highchair that has been on backorder for months---right after I placed another order for one. I didn't see any orders pending on my account. Anyway. Even though it's in a box in the basement, it's oddly hopeful. I didn't pine, or cry, or get all pensive.

I hope your DH didn't meet his demise the other day, and he reinstalled the brain filter that keeps him from saying asinine things.

Sigh. Miss you. Take care.

Keri


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## Mammax4

Good Morning!! (well, not yet... but it will be when you read this)

Finally home, and a fixed computer no less!!! Just when he thought he would get me back, he looses me to the sanity provider!









The trip was uneventful. I did break my toe, actually... not totally uneventful I suppose. We were busy, went to the river and on my parent's boat on the lake one day. I went for a few motorcycle rides while there too. I am a motorcycle junkie, my Dad suggested that I should buy one. I think that would go over like a tonne of bricks, and Harley's are my first choice... not very affordable.

I hope your dog came through his surgery okay Keri. Let me know how he is. What was the follow up with the skin doc like? Did you tell me already?

I managed to keep it together with my sister there in all of her pg glory. Saw the u/s pics too. I think she did temper her comments with me around. It was interesting with stepmom, I was going to leave early due to attitude. I told her about it and said that it wasn't okay for her to treat me like that and I didn't appreciate being treated like that. She backed off and apologized for it. Progress??

I hope you both are well. We have another f/c coming on Friday, LB2. We have a week to get back into the swing of things with LP. We just got in tonight and I have laundry and unpacking to do before bed.

Talk again soon!

Missed you like crazy, glad to be able to pop in with out computer issues!

Mich

ps- we had our computer in the shop for the best part of a week- there were 12 viruses and several of them were not easy to remove. I must say they seem to have done a bang up job AND our pictures were not lost!!!


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## lolalapcat

Welcome back, Micheline!









How did you break your toe? There must be more to the story! I'm sorry to hear about that, ouch.

It is so nice to hear that your sister was considerate about NOT overwhelming you with baby talk. That could have been unbearable. I'm sure it was still difficult, though.

How is she doing without her arthritis meds?

Did your boys go with you? How did LP do in your absence?

What was your stepmom doing? Good for you, standing up to her!

I think sometimes older people fall into little crabby habits that get bigger as the years go on. They may not even realize how bad it has gotten. Note to self, be aware of little crabby habits. My Mom, lordy. No one can even get ice correctly, or feed the cats, or sweep the floors...

Hooray for your DH for getting the computer fixed! You must burn cds of the photos immediately. Do that, then answer my million questions, please!

(Mich is back, Mich is back!!!! I'm having a little party in my head!)

Dog is fine, doesn't even realize anything is missing. He is stubborn today, so all is normal! Thanks for asking.

Trying to get ducks in a row before leaving on the trip to New Mexico tomorrow.

I bought a Caboodles kit--are you familiar, the kits for makeup that are marketed to teenagers? After some paring down, I have all of my 'travel bathroom stuff' in it, right down to the contact solution and hair dryer. If only I didn't require so much self tanner and sunscreen. It's adorable, pearly pink and silver. So not me, but my toenails are pink also---what is happening here?

Packing at work today, packing my suitcase here tonight.

This trip has me nervous. Maybe I don't want to travel again so soon, maybe it's worry about Mom getting in and out of the big truck, maybe it's worry Mom will be a crabby traveler (she's about 50/50), maybe it's traveling while on antibiotics through big empty bathroomless parts of the country, and trying to start the thyroid medicine today (exactly 12 hours apart, on empty stomach, pulse at temp at 11, 2 & 5). Too much, too much.

I've packed a travel bead box, just in case! I'll take HP 7 for Mom to read, and I'll have HP 2 and 3 for me.

Good luck on Friday with LB2! I'll try to check in while on the trip, but can't make any promises.

I expect we'll be back middle of next week. Sorry I'm leaving right away.

Missed you so much!







Glad you are back.


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## Mammax4

Well, the toe is an easy story...when in a construction zone, always watch what is in front of you! The cabinet installer was there working and had left his nailer on the floor. Yep, you guessed it - stubbed my little baby toe on it. It's still swollen, though not so bruised now. My Dad had jokingly said he was not going to let me on the property until I signed a waiver. That was even before I left home! Wonder if I will need a notory to witness my signature for me next year?

My sister is doing well without the meds. In fact, amazingly so. I have seen her in bad shape just from taking a pill late, or forgetting the night time one. She moves around like there is no problem. (so either she's a good actress, or maybe a little pg hormone is helping)

My stepmom was doing the same kind of stuff that she has all of my life. Same poop, different day. It's all being shitty at me because she is jealous of me. It's my appearance, my relationship with my Dad, my ability to handle life... you name it, she has a problem with it. All my life we have had interactions like that. It gets real old real quick. I don't have any tolerance for that kind of crap anymore. Thank goodness she came into our lives though... we were destined to become 'white trash', but for her involvement in our lives. or so she said to me at some point since I became an adult. (don't I sound pissy...







)

We did get LB2 on Friday. He is a doll. Just starting to walk - it's so cute. How is it that they don't get horrible bruises on their bums from falling down so much? Can't be the diapers, there is no padding in them anymore.

Tan and her pink must be rubbing off on you. Painted toenails, what a great pampering idea! Hmmm, must get nail polish.

Hope your trip is going well, between antibiotic stomach and Mom it could prove challenging. It can be nice to get away sometimes though, especially when you can catch up with old friends and maybe make a new one or two.

I suppose I should go and get ready for bed. This long weekend is making for a lazy me. Greg goes back to work tomorrow for the first time in 8 weeks. It will be an early wake up, that's for sure.

Talk soon,
Mich


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## Mammax4

Keri....You're home!!!!














:







: (I had dinner inspiration...carrots and broccoli)

Hope your trip went well! Can't wait to get back into the swing of things. I may need a de-stresser in the near future... not so much fun on the home front. We are going to have a 'chat' tonight.









I'll try and check in later tonight.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Awwww, you gave me dancing veggies and stuff! That's so nice!

Yes, I am back. 2000 miles in a truck with my parents, mercy.

I am relieved that I no longer have to help take care of my Mom, and I feel guilty that my Dad still does.

She either got very fatigued from the trip, which affected her condition, or her condition is degrading before our eyes. It was a real eye opener.

In some ways she is handling it so graciously, but she is also very, very demanding. I'd go out to the truck to avoid strangling her, then cry because of the state she is in.

Boy, I'm a barrel of sunshine, aren't I?

Your stepmom sure sounds like a peach! It's so darn complicated, these relationships. Does your stepmom have the same issues with your sister? Or is your life a little more together, therefore you are easier to resent?

What's going on with your home front, anyway? A flaming devil head is pretty serious stuff! And right after your DH went back to work....

I'm sorry, whatever it is. Wish life was a little easier for you.

LB2 sounds darling! How is LP adjusting? And your boys?

We got back late lastnight, so I am tired today. Still reeling from the overpowering urge to move back to NM. I did not expect that. I think it may be a flight instinct.

How's your toe?

I'll check in later tonight, or early tomorrow. I would have checked in this morning, except our power was out--but hooray for the rain that caused it!


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## Mammax4

What happened with the hotel? Did it work out okay?

The flaming devil is serious... so much so, I don't know if my fingers can type it all. The heart of the issue I guess is I'm tired... tired of feeling bad and that I need to be in defensive/justification mode all the time. My stepmom is many things in a not such positive light, but she sparked some workings in my head that may mean big changes. In our living arrangements or in our relationship, I guess we will have to see.

The current situation, the straw that broke the camel's back, was with regards to a tattoo I am getting. Some people don't like them, I can deal with that. I don't have a problem with them and have 2 at the moment that have been on me for 1/2 of my life. I am getting a celtic spiral, representing maiden, mother, old crone - woman power - that has dots representing the boys I have and the one I lost last year. He doesn't like that, but made understanding commentary. He has since started talking about how if I want to 'scar' my body... we should talk about this... I'm tired of feeling guilty all the time. The negative energy is overwhelming. This seems like such a trivial thing, but it speaks to the heart of the interactions between us. He doesn't like Harmony, won't refer to her other than 'the/that dog', and says we may as well not bother doing anything with the backyard, as it is her toilet. He likes long hair, when I get it cut he will make comments about how one day, if he's lucky I will grow it again. I bought a bathing suit while I was on holidays, I hadn't found one I was comfortable wearing while shopping here. When I showed it to DH - and it is a modest tankini set - the first thing out of my mouth was don't worry, I didn't wear the bottoms, only the top. ??? WTF?? What difference does that make? I was at the beach, in 40+ degree weather (that is something over 100) why couldn't/shouldn't I wear a bathing suit?

So, I have come to the realization that our interactions are not healthy. I am not his mother, never set out to become her. I LOVE being a MOM and have LOVED being a WIFE, but I can't continue at the cost of also being ME.
(the wife part that is)

He said that if this tattoo was the worst of my mid-life crisis, it wasn't so bad. Ummm, hello... how about don't dismiss me and what I want to do like that?

Another big part in this, the part that has knocked him off the high place that I had placed him.... the first time in our relationship that I really needed him to be there for me - he blew it. He was not on the same page, wasn't emotionally supportive and wasn't emotionally available.

We are going to have a chat tonight. I suspect he figures this is a biggie, he has been much more interactive with me today. Yesterday, for the first time in 16+ years, he set the alarm clock to wake me up instead of doing it himself. He was VERY icy when he got home from work - we barely spoke the whole night.

While we were discussing the tattoo, he stated that I could have had it done and he wouldn't have noticed for years. That I don't like anyone, "well, at least not me(DH)" to see me naked. What??? Yes, well in between looking after 5-7 kids, I find time to prance around the neighbourhood in the nude, or perhaps it's that I have taken up whoring in my spare time?

BLAH.... that is the tip of the iceberg anyway. I don't want to live my life being manipulated by guilt trips anymore. There is nothing I have ever done to risk my family, my children or myself. I wouldn't, that is not who I am. Thrill seeking for me amounts to a meal at the pub with a gf. or shopping of course. Although I have been known to go for a ride on a motorcycle from time to time. When he was talking about me having a mid-life crisis, I asked him what he would think if I bought a motorcycle. He replied that he knows I want one and that he wants me to wait at least until Will is a teenager, because I will die if I have one. sigh...

aren't you glad you asked?

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Of course I'm glad I asked! I want to know what is bothering you, and I hope that by putting it out there it will help you clarify what is going on in your head.

It's a mountain of little things, it seems. And the little fights can take more out of me than the big ones, you know?

Is most of this actually coming from his apparent lack of caring when you had the m/c? You put that way down on the list, but acknowledge it is a big thing.

I don't know, dear friend. I just hope that the talk last night brought some things to light, so you feel better.

Just my penny analysis, it sounds like it may be a communication issue. Your DH doesn't say what he is really thinking, he just makes little peripheral comments. You take these comments very much to heart (as I would). But I'm not sure the two of you are necessarily talking about the same things.

And you went to visit family without him, he went on his birthday trip without you....

Oh, I hope the talk went well.

By the way, I think your proposed tattoo sounds lovely, all the symbolism.

I'll check in later. Hang in there.


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## Mammax4

Well, the last night chat ended up being a condensed version this morning.

It was not anywhere near long enough, but perhaps it will allow for some time to think before we continue. It has not reduced the negativity I am feeling about our relationship for me.

I guess what has changed is that in our first real challenge as a couple, it didn't go so well. I needed him, he wasn't there - be it by inability or fear. With that came a different perspective, on my end, of our interactions. I came to expect less from him and of him. It's hard to feel intimately inclined with someone you see as so detached from your raw emotional state.

What I realize is he is very much like his mother. He will express an opinion and then proceed to use guilt trip antics to try and manipulate the situation. I am not willing to be guilted anymore.

He said that I came home and said I am getting tattoo'd and a motorbike, like it or lump it. That isn't what I said. I told him that I had wanted to get a tattoo for a long time and was finally going to do it. The motorbike end of things was in response to his reducing my tattoo to a mid-life crisis. I asked what would you say if I told you I wanted one? He said he knew I wanted one. Some how that changed in his brain -to a F&*$ you!

His problem (I think) is that he wanted to discuss my getting a tattoo, in hopes of dissuading me from doing it. I held firm, he didn't like it.

My problem, I think, is that I'm not sure I care anymore. If he can accept me for who I am and not try to impose his wants on me then maybe we can hang in there. I guess I feel like he has me on a leash that is too short for my liking. I don't know who put the leash on me, it could have been either of us. I know I don't want to wear it anymore. The harder he pulls the harder I pull.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying I am not open to discuss things. Those discussions shouldn't include things like clothes, hair-do's, and other benign things like that. He does stuff that I wouldn't choose for him to participate in too. I have nagged at times - like with smoking. That is a health issue, I think that is different. (I would though, because it's my issue) His family history is riddled with cancer and both his parents died due to cancer.

Last year I told him that I didn't like the person I was when that issue came up. I said that he knew how I felt about it and what he chose to do was his decision to make. I was done with the angst and anger about it, I didn't need the negativity.

Will wants some milk, I have put him off for long enough.

Mich


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## Mammax4

I had edited my last post, but was told I didn't have the authorization to do that, so lost it. ggrrr.

I wanted to add the holiday stuff. DH's trip was a legit one. It is too long a drive to go up there with all of us only to stay for one night. It is complicated by the fosters being here too, we need permission to take them out of the city. DH loves being up there and has gone up and back in one day a number of times. We used to stay in cabins at the resort, but they took them away to house staff. It wouldn't be very relaxing to have to sshhh the children staying in one of the rooms there. We haven't gone up there to stay since the cabins were made unavailable. We did go up and back in one day once, that was enough...too much travel.

I thought my trip to my parents without him was legit. I have come to find out that he did not want to go. He told me that since I came home. He didn't want to participate in the 'ass discussion'. He used working on the house as his reason for staying. It seemed reasonable, but when I came home there had only been one day of work with his brother done. I didn't say anything to him, the same thing happened last year. He was staying to start deconstruction for our addition then.

The 'ass thing' came about probably 7 years ago. I had started working out and commented to my Dad that I was noticing some physical changes. His reply was "So, you mean that when you bend over now, Vancouver Island doesn't lose it's sunshine anymore?" We are a verbally cheeky kind of family. That was not taken as rude by me, if we would have been in the same place, I would have punched his arm and said 'thanks dad'. We are considerate about each others realities - my step-mom has weight issues, we would never make cracks about weight to her. That would be nasty, not fun. So, now I have the 'ass cracks'







as my regular commentary. I participate fully, am not bothered by it a bit. The funny thing about this is I had the same kind of relationship with DH's Dad. DH didn't have any problem with that.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Mich, I'm not throwing stones for traveling separately. It was just an observation. I obviously travel a lot without my husband....

And I wouldn't like the hair or clothes comments one bit. I would never consult my DH before changing my hair! I just tell him, it's coming off.

So the ass comments really bother your DH? Enough that it is a real reason for not visiting your family? That's a pretty strong reaction.

I hope that more talking has happened, and some air is getting cleared. It sounds like this has been building for a long while.

Take care, my friend.


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## Mammax4

Didn't even cross my mind a stone was being thrown my friend. It was a good observation. Just wanted to provide the nitty gritty to show it wasn't a 'you go your way, I'll go mine' type situation.

We had a good talk tonight. I am sure we will need to keep tweaking the situation and communication, but at least the air is cleared somewhat. I was actually looking at how I could buy him out of this house and would I be able to manage on my own. That is how serious it was, or at least appeared to be. I don't know if we are okay yet, but at least we are able to relax and be okay in the same space.

He seems to have heard me, and will work on the issues I brought up. I heard him and was surprised to hear what he had to say. He was talking about the m/c and how in the past 2 months with nothing to do but sit around, he was working stuff through in his head. He spoke about how our life would have been different and how he didn't know what to do, not having dealt with something like this before. He said that having the 2 months off had given him the chance to work through his emotional stuff, and he didn't know how I was managing with no time off through the whole thing and beyond.

I said we need to make time to do the things that we as individuals like to do. If you don't take care of you, you're no good to others. He agreed. So, we will each get some time for solo stuff, we will make arrangements for us time.

All this and we are getting an emergency placement immediately. They have been looking for the child all day, she was supposed to be here today. It is not uncommon for parent(s) to avoid their usual hangouts when they know their child is going to be removed from their care.

So, the killer in all of this --- same age as our would have been. AAHHH!!! Would ya' like a little salt in that wound? Funny though, LB2 and LP2 have names that are one sound different. LP1 and LP2 were born on the same day, but different years. How is that for weird?

I am off to bed, hopefully to sleep much better than I have been the last while.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Sometimes I feel bad taking up bandwidth here, talking about mundane everyday issues.

But oh my, how the loss of a tiny little unseen baby can reverberate through the lives it touched. It honestly changes the trajectory of life, and your DH finally took the time to really consider that.

Maybe he needs a tattoo also....

He makes a good point. No one here takes time off to deal with a m/c, unless it is medically required. But I might go batty if I take that much time to think. You?

I am so glad you are feeling better about things. I'll be a pest a remind you to work on, what was it, self care and marriage care!

And I can't help but think the 'salt in the wound' is going to be healing for you. You are such wonderful people for opening your arms for these children. And the coincidences....aren't coincidental, are they?


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## Mammax4

Nope, not coincidence at all. The placement officer was trying to get ahold of me, couldn't, so left messages on the home and cell phone. She then called DH at work. When he finally got the message, not knowing anything about her, bday or what have you - he said he got a really good feeling about her and that he thought she might be an old soul like a little girl we knew years ago. Funny for him to say something like that. We will see what she is like soon enough.

I forgot to tell you the new foster Mom for LB1 brought him by the other day for a quick visit. How nice is that!? She was in the neighborhood, so just dropped by. I took him from her arms, and oh, my he was heavenly. He tucked his head into my neck and just squeezed me! I couldn't stop kissing his sweet little cheeks. He has the biggest smile you ever did see. Can you tell I didn't want to give him back? We are going to meet for a playdate next week sometime.

Anyway, off me and onto you.... how was the doxy? are you done for the moment? probiotics, how are they coming along?

DH said I should come down and see you as one of my 'me' times... just watch out lady... I know where you live... I'm going to have to call your DH and plan a sneak attack










Have a good Friday, I am going for my tattoo at 4:30 today! I will check in and update our household craziness as time allows. Can you imagine 6 kids?? Good thing we have a big truck!

Mich


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## Deir

Oh I am so so sorry for you. My mom lost her full term baby 2 days after delivery 43 years ago and she still feels the loss intensely. She went on to have 5 more children but nothing takes away what you have lost. Sending you peace and strength...


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## lolalapcat

Deir, that was very sweet of you.

Mich, you are welcome any time, but please no sneak attacks! I would want to arrange for time off from work, have the house all shiny, be mentally and physically prepared to stay up for 48 hours straight talking!!! Not to mention, make sure I'm not out of town for anything.....but you are certainly welcome! Along with any of the rest of your family! Okay, maybe not your stepmom...

LB1 sounds precious. You must miss him so much, and I'll bet your boys miss him too. Is he doing well in the home with his brothers?

Your DH is quite the guy. The 'old soul' comment, and the 'good feeling' comment....if he is tuned into the universe (for lack of a better description), why does he stumble when dealing with you?

You should pick his brain. What else is going on in that head of his? Sometimes I think men are so literal, but they continually surprise me.

Yes, the doxy is done for approx. 2 weeks. I didn't take the probiotics on the trip, as they need to be refrigerated, and they are pretty pricey. If I forget to throw ice on top of yogurt, that's one thing. If I have to throw out a $23 bottle of probiotics, it's another!

But I found these nifty organic yogurt smoothies with lotsa probiotics in them, so I took a few of those, and made it a point to consume yogurt every day.

The T3 is the biggie now. My ugly utilitarian watch woke me up this morning, so I could take it on schedule. Wonder Doc says he'd like me to stay on the T3 throughout a pregnancy (cross fingers, knock on wood, spit over shoulder) so I am getting used to the 3 hour window, am and pm, of not eating.

My temp got up to 98.6 the other day! My average is still in the 97's, so I am predicting a phone call on Monday to up my dosage.

Okay, I need to get ready and help my brother move out of his apartment. It is unairconditioned and it's going to be 100 F today. That's 40 something C?
He has helped me move multiple times, so I owe him. Then shopping, to replace the pretty cane of Mom's that I managed to leave in New Mexico. Ooops!

Hope things are going well with the passel of kids, and the tattoo is just what you pictured!


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## Mammax4

Can you imagine being physically in the same place at the same time? That would be a chat-fest for sure! I wouldn't really drop in without warning, but it was fun wondering if I could pull a surprise off with the help of your DH.

The tattoos are done, they look great. DH took some pictures for me, I couldn't do it myself.

My DH confuses me too. He can make the most insensitive remarks sometimes and yet be so compassionate the next. And men talk about the complexities of women! At this moment, we have the opportunity to be on track. Hopefully that stays for a while. I know it is going to take a conscious effort, by both of us, to remain on track. It is easy to de-rail if we are not careful.

How did the moving go? That is not one thing I like to do. We actually hired people last time - not to pack for us, just to load and unload the trucks.

Did you find a replacement cane? Have you unwound from your travels yet?

Hope you had some chance to relax this weekend. I have Will's flu bug, it was nice of him to share with me.


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## lolalapcat

Mich, I don't know if my DH could pull off THAT big of a surprise....he's the one trying to get me to open birthday gifts a week before the birthday!

Now why did Will give you the flu? I'm sorry you are sick, especially given the timing of all the kids....how is the latest baby?

How are YOU doing with the latest baby? That would be a challenge, given the age and all.

The weekend flew by. We ran all day Saturday....made huge headway in my brother's apartment, but ran out of boxes and truck space. He finished up most of it yesterday.

Yesterday I spent time in the garden, picking green chiles (which now need to be roasted and peeled), cukes, tomatoes, eggplant, and doing some much needed weeding. I did not know it was possible to sweat that much.

And I spent hours putting random family history into Family Tree Maker. I have intended to do that for years now, and never prioritized it. My Mom's cousin from Denver, Colorado (we visited her on our trip) does not have much family history. I'm gonna swamp her!

Sometimes I actually think about giving up on the entire process of trying to have kids, in any way. Working on the family history gives me an almost visceral reaction, wanting to contribute to the continuity. I don't want it to end with me.

Silly, I know.

But it was a very calm Sunday. I needed some rest.

I hope you are feeling better, friend. Please send photos of the tattoo!


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## Mammax4

The early surprise giver... I can relate to that! That would be me in our house...at least with DH. The kids don't bring that out in me.

We don't have LP2 yet, we are waiting - still - to meet her. That is probably not such a bad thing considering the illness that went through our house last weekend. It would have been less than pleasant for her to come to us on the weekend. (or anyone else for that matter!)

It is giving me a chance to get my head around LP2 being here and what she will bring more to the surface. I did get to snuggle that newest in my face baby again today. She was a month yesterday and is very lovely. Yes, she does make me yearn, but I manage alright.

Good for you for swamping your Mom's cousin! The geneology charts can take up a Whole lot of time for sure. I started doing some of that a few years ago, but gave up due to extreme frustration.

I would love to know more about the paternal side of my family. I do have 2 half sisters that I am not sure even know about me.

If I lived close, I would love to help you with your garden treasures. I have a fantastic recipe for antipasto, I always think about that this time of year. I have so many empty jars on stored now. I need to make time for a garden.


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## lolalapcat

Hello, I am the canning jar Queen! My next door neighbors gave me a ton of jars, and I have shared with anyone who will take some! But no more running to the store to buy new ones....

I love to can, but it is so hot outside I am reluctant to heat up the inside. It may be time to buy a freestanding propane burner, so I can move some of the canning outdoors. My Dad mentioned putting a stove in their very cool basement, so I could eventually can there. Now how nice is that?!?!

Yeah, you have to have some of the more recent family information to build on. The internet is amazing---people will do so much research, and post it on the web to share. That is the bulk of my information. But check the web---once you get back a couple of generations, you never know what other people have to share.

Do you want to meet your half sisters? Did you ever meet with your bio Mom's friend?

So have all of you recovered from the family illness? That's a miserable way to spend a weekend. Ick.

I don't know. Maybe having babies in your face helps take away the aversion. I am rarely around babies, other than GJ, so I still engage in some pretty skilled avoidance when I have to be around them. You may be farther along the recovery power curve than I.

Ugh. I didn't even mention that my parents met with a nurse, and have decided NOT to go with any nursing care at this time. My Dad is exhausted, he has lost weight, he's not sleeping well....it's not so much for Mom at this point, but to give Dad a break. I suppose they will wait until Mom falls in the bathroom and has to lay there a few hours before they will go with some help during the day.

So I bought 'Don't Sweat the Small Stuff (and it's all small stuff)' and am trying to embrace some of its principles. Specifically, I am trying to not sweat what is going on with my parents. Can't change it.

Hey, the last 2 days my temp has averaged over 98 degrees! So this is what it is like to be normal.....yeah, like I've ever been normal!









So what did your DH have to say about the tattoo?

Hope you are feeling better, and things are calm at your house!


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## lolalapcat

Mich, I hope all is well!

Has the new little houseguest arrived?

We have been roasting green chiles for the past 2 evenings. They are delicious! Peel, deseed, chop and put on top of pizza (lastnight), burgers, in soup...or I make a sauce with them that is fabulous over eggs, burritos, enchiladas. It's a way to relive New Mexico.

Moral of the story, I am tired! All day yesterday I thought it was Wednesday. How did I lose a day of the week?

Tan, do you ever still stop by here? I miss you.

Take care.

Keri


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## mrskennedy

He will always be part of your family, no matter how much time passes.







to all of you, today and always!


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## Mammax4

All is well indeed. The houseguest aka LP2 is no longer coming. Placement requirements changed. We had another request this past Thursday for LB3 and that too changed. All this chain yanking about babies - yikes!

DH didn't have much to say about the tattoo. At least he didn't make a big fuss about it either though. He's not crazy about my next venture, but will not put up too much resistance either. I want to buy a motorcycle. If it wasn't for the fact that I have liked them so much for so long, I would think I am having a midlife crisis! One step at a time though, must get learners permit first.

I think it would be interesting to meet my half sisters. I am not sure they even know about me, it would be odd to see others that might look like me. My pg sister doesn't look a thing like me - dark brown hair, olive skin, big dark brown eyes. My bio mom's friend hasn't called me back. I am going to leave it, if she wants to see me she will call. It was completely out of the blue for her to call me, not sure what that was all about.

I have a stove downstairs, you could come and can at my house!

I too wonder what it is like to have a normal body temperature. The only time I have felt warm was while pg and if I have a drink of alcohol or two, then I get warm too.

We went out for a later dinner tonight - at a local pub. It was delicious. I saw a school secretary when we were there, she told me her old job was being posted. She wanted to let me know as it was something we had discussed last year. She is going to book me into the school for lunch hour supervision the first week of school. This will get me into the union and then I would be able to apply for that job. (accounting clerk - accounts receivable/payable and office stuff) It is only 16 hours per week, and a foot in the door for when Will is in school f/t.

I hope you are having a relaxing weekend. You sure have had a busy schedule this year.

Mich


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## lolalapcat

Thanks for the hug, Mrs. Kennedy!

Hey, Mich!

So it's still LP and LB2? How are they? How are the boys? How are YOU?

Hmm, a job at the school. Would you still do foster care? You always have so many irons in the fire, I don't know how you do it!

That would be really neat if you could be around while Will is in school.

Well, I'm glad the Tattoo Incident has blown over. Motorcycle I don't understand, but life can get long and flat when simple dreams are left unfulfilled. So what is the timeline after the learners permit?

We had a lovely evening lastnight, out to dinner with friends. The godson has become a Restaurant Terrorist, so he was at Grandma's. So it was an evening of adult conversation, and very fun!

My friend is going to 'fast' with me, by joining me for the 6 hours a day I can't eat. She still has a lot of the baby weight. Hey, if it works for her, I don't mind the ideological company!

That is so not how I pictured your sister. Well, my brother is very tall, very dark hair (mostly gray now) and has brown eyes. I was a blond child (golden brown now), hazel eyes, average height. But we really look like siblings. Same nose!

Today, I need to package chiles and freeze them. Work on finishing the emptying of my parents garage. Clean house, primarily by rolling up the high maintenance living room rug and replacing it with the new brown shag area rug. Ha! I'll show those animals!

So another busy Sunday. Fall will bring calm. It's my favorite time of year, anyway, and I''m really looking forward to it this year.

Watch out, I'm going to be flying to your house with a load of tomatoes!


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## Mammax4

It is still LP and LB2. For how long, who knows. Will was saying he wants someone less than one to come and share his room. Ah, sweet boy....you don't know how close you came....

I am not sure what will happen with the job potential. It really is about a year too soon. It would mean putting Will in after school care for 2.5 hrs 4x per week. Not what I would be striving for. Not to mention I would have to try and find childcare for the fosters we have. It is my dream job though, to work for the school board and have all school holidays off. We'll see. It is fun to dream.

The motorcycle thing is a funny thing to try and explain. It is a feeling of freedom and power - with the added bonus of bugs in your teeth.







I am a tire biter...what can I say....muscle cars and motorcycles. I should have been a drag racer. (not!) I suppose at the very base of the motorcycle thing is freedom, a little peace for me - doing something that I like. Now I have not actually driven a motorbike in about 20 years. I have never driven on the street, only a dirt bike. I have passenger'd lots on both 'crotch rockets' (as we call them here) and Harley's. Never thought much about getting one myself before. My Dad suggested it and I thought....why not? There is no time line...I could still be dreaming years from now. I am going to get my learners though.

Adult evening in a restaurant... good for you! I hope it was yummy food to go with the nice evening.

If you were to see my sister and I, you would not think we were related at all. We do have different Dad's though, hers is darker haired, though not so much darker skin. My sister looks kind of exotic in her features.

I too love the fall. The air smells fantastic - heavy with the moisture in the air too. Before we know it, we will be discussing the too cute towels your MIL will be sending you for Hallowe'en again.

We are in the 'que' for railings for our deck - finally. It should be done mid-September. Yeah! DH was amazing today. We put up a whole bunch of pictures that were not up yet, he hung 2 roller blinds AND... sit down for this one.... I mentioned I needed to vacuum (we have company coming on Tuesday) DH said... I'll do upstairs and then you can do downstairs. I thought, well... okay....he'll vacuum the carpet and I'll have to finish the hardwood, but at least some will be done.... He vacuumed the WHOLE upstairs!!! He even MOVED furniture!!! Better yet, I didn't even have to ask for help! It was great!

I would love to help you can and freeze. Bring on the whole bunch of tomatoes, we'll get both stoves going and be done in a jiffy. I would love to make some more antipasto this year. I'll have to pull out my recipe and see if I think I would have time.

Sorry you are still so darned busy. It's funny to hear you say I have so many irons in the fire. I see you the same way. Dr's, work travel and workshops, moving family, anniversary party, weddings... It really doesn't slow down does it?

Have a great Monday!


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## lolalapcat

That Will....he has quite a soul, doesn't he?

And your DH outdid himself! That is fabulous. Did you reward him big time, to encourage said behavior?

Vacuum, that's a thought. Move furniture to vacuum? Hahahaha!









The weekend has flown, and I am once again exhausted on Monday. Grrr. We made headway in the Old House. Another weekend or two, and maybe it can go on the market.

Oh, the food was yummy Saturday night (Italian), and our waiter was terrific! It was a very good dining experience.

The State Fair starts next weekend, so I'm trying to figure out how I can fit that into the schedule. Food on a stick, mmmmm.

Okay, woman, start the Motorcycle Fund! If it represents freedom, peace and something for yourself, it is a worthy goal!

I can't even think in a straight line today. I'll stop changing subjects with every line, and get some more coffee. Have a great day!


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## Mammax4

What is your fair like? Does it have a 'country' kind of feel to it with animals and normal midway stuff? We have one the first weekend in September. It is the only one worth going to.

My DH Totally outdid himself! I was blown away and expressed my thanks for his help.

I wish I was there to help you clear out/clean up the old house. I hope it doesn't take much longer for it to be off your plate. It is hard to keep that pace up. It is hard to be on the run so much.

Have you started the doxy again yet? How are you feeling? Probiotics - how's that going? When is the next meet with the Dr? Did they change your meds?

How are you doing with all that is going on right now? With your Mom and Dad, the medically related pg stuff, skin Doc is done right? Are you too busy to think? Or are you needing to unload?

We both did well at the couple care side of things this weekend, are you able to have any you time?


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## lolalapcat

Oh, yes, our fair has a country feel to it! And the weather will be cooler, so it won't be a hazard to go in the livestock barns, woohoo!

My favorites are the goats, they are so friendly. We always stroll through the horse barn, and the cows are on the way to the fried pickle stand...so we see them by default.

Free concerts, beer gardens, all of the arts and crafts displays, the quilt and canned goods competitions, camel rides, petting zoo...it's very down home.

It's always my goal to eat as much food-on-a-stick as possible. Fried pickles, peaches, twinkies, corndogs....mmmmm. And always cotton candy.

But how do I clean my house, weed the garden, can tomatoes, go to the state fair and help at my parents' house? I haven't figured out if this is possible. All of them are multi-hour projects. Maybe if I get up at the crack of dawn and work my ass off, yuck.

Doxy will start up again in approximately a week. My cycles are still wonky (O-type CM, then a few days of nothing, then more O-type CM, WTH?) so it may be more than a week. I'm afraid the doxy is permanently affecting my digestion. Grrr. What will it be like after 5 more doses? Sorry, TMI. But I miss normal.

T3 is going okay. Temps are kind of haywire. Must contact clinic to give them vital stats. Once again, it takes a lot for me to pick up the phone....

I'm ignoring the situation with my Mom and Dad. I can't change it, so why think about it, right?

Mom and I have been talking family tree and Harry Potter. All good.

I did engage in major lamentations yesterday. My younger cousin and his wife just had a baby girl. I didn't even know they were expecting, which I suppose is for the better. They got married a year and a half ago. That's the wedding we flew to, when I still had a belly full of stitches from the first surgery.

But I spent the entire day engaged in that endless 'why is it so f*#@ing easy for everybody else' thinking. I know, it's not for everybody else. But it is for everyone in my life, damn it.

So I have been planning a family barbecue for this fall, but now I want to call it off, because there will be incessant baby talk and photos and all. (cousin lives in California, so at least the baby won't be in my face).

I thought I was over this kind of thinking. My progress has been reversed.

I want to trade my life in. Is that really asking for so much?

Not my husband though. Things are really good with him. Probably because I don't let him hear what's in my head.

Bet you're sorry you asked if I needed to unload! Bitch, bitch, bitch. Whine. Complain.

Thank you for asking, and thanks for listening. I'm off to see if today will be a little nicer to me (yesterday started off with me locking myself out of the house. Mondays.)

How is your head?


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## Mammax4

Never sorry in a million years! I am your bitch blanket to use as needed. Take it out, dust it off, shake the shit out of it - scream, yell, cry, swear.... WHAT EVER IT TAKES MY FRIEND!! (and I don't mean that in a shouting at you kind of way, but just with lots of emphasis.)

Up, down.... you never know what is around the bend. My sanity remained with me due to the Raging Lunatics - More times than I think I knew at the time. If I can reduce your AAAHHHH! I am more than happy to.

Is it the progress has reversed, or you are up to your armpits in the preparing process?

You can get a twinkie on a stick??? What is a fried pickle? I need to come to your fair to get clued in better to the options one has for 'stick food'. I am pretty darn sure ours is a burger/hotdog kind of affair. I know there are some yummy ethnic food stands too. Do you have those?

I am sorry that your parents are holding off getting help. You are right, you can't do anything about it....but don't try to fool me that you are not thinking about it...I don't believe that. You might try, but I can't see you being too successful at that.

Pick and choose your to do list. The weeds will wait, the house will only get dirty again.... fair, tomatoes, parents house. You do need to do something that doesn't involve you and work. Would you have a twinkie on a stick for me? I can't remember the last time I ate a twinkie.

Better get going, it is going to be a nasty early morning. I have a gf here from Ontario, we were up talking until 20mins ago. I think I am going to need to have a sleep in next week when she's gone!

Sorry to hear you locked your self out of the house. That is no way to start a Monday for sure.


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## lolalapcat

Mich, thanks for happily accepting my vent! I do appreciate that.

You have a girlfriend in town, how fun is that? I hope you have a fabulous time Get sleep later!

Progress reversed-----the progress I had made in not avoiding pregnant women, baby stuff, children. The progress I thought I had made in not resenting/envying other peoples' effortless ability to have kids.

No progress here, apparently. I was even panging lastnight, being around our godson. He's walking and talking and acting like a 2 year old...he's growing up so fast, and I really thought maybe we would have a baby while he was still one, and they could grow up together, and we could learn about the parenting process with our friends. Nope. We have been passed by.

I think it's PMS. It is that time of the month, and I feel as though there are no coping skills left to draw on.

Sigh.

Fried Twinkies have to be done right. If they start out frozen, the outside is all crispy fried while the inside is cool and creamy. Absolute heaven! But they have to be made on the spot, if they sit around they are just grease sponges. It's a learning curve!

Fried pickles are fantastic. I first had them when I lived in the deep South US. Dill pickle chips, dipped in a spicy batter and fried. Yummy! At the Fair it's a spear, dipped in regular batter and fried, yes, on a stick.

Other than Greek and Italian food, there aren't many other ethnic options at the State Fair. Interesting. Lincoln has every different type of restaurant, but the State Fair doesn't really reflect that. Eh, I'm there for the food on a stick!

Thanks for checking in, I do appreciate it! Have fun, my fellow raging lunatic!


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## Mammax4

I am sorry my friend. Not here when I hear such pain and longing. I am hoping that your head is in a gentler space today. I understand. I am sorry. There are so many things on your plate right now. Was it really that you had made progress or was it that you have stuffed your emotions. Now with so much going on, your mask is not having time to be touched up.

If I was close, I would come over and be there for you...really wholly there.

It is amazing how deep things can feel so much better when you have someone there to understand and share. My gf and I have known each other for 22years....(sigh...) We are the kind of friends that it doesn't matter how long it has been since we last spoke or saw each other... it is like yesterday. My being has been nourished this week. I wish I could be there to help nourish yours.

I am sending you much energy and light to help if it can. Wrap your arms around yourself and give yourself a big hug from me.

How is your DH doing? Are you unloading/sharing with him at all? Or are you sparing him? A consideration..... not sharing creates/increases the chasm .... not a good plan. As much as you may not want to burden him, he is probably aware of something at least on a subconsious level.

I hope you made time for the fair. I hope you ate too much food on a stick - although, not enough to make you sick. Just enough to know you had a great time.

We are celebrating 16 years today. Almost 1/2 my life...

We have our 20th year high school reunion next July. My gf and I are going to go. She is coming out from the east coast. We are going to be each others date. It will be interesting to see all the people again.

Did you get any time off this weekend?

Thinking of you....


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## lolalapcat

Thanks, Mich. My head is in a somewhat better place now, it just needs to boil over once in a while.

Happy Anniversary, plus a day! Did you find some couple time yesterday to celebrate?

16 years seems like such a long time, but like you my 20th high school reunion will be next year. DH and I drove through the campus of my alma mater on Saturday, and I can't believe that much time has passed....

I am so pleased you had such a good visit with your friend! Balm for the soul.

Yes, we made time for the state fair, and it was lovely! Such nice weather. I did not eat as much as I intended, but I did have a couple of on-a-stick items!

We made massive progress on the Old House yesterday. This is the home stretch, a couple more weeks and it should be completely done. Finally, I will get my weekends back!

DH and I have talked some. He has stuff in his head too, so it was good for both of us to get it out.

I stayed up way too late lastnight, to finish Harry Potter 5. And the dog was barking in the middle of the night---I am such a cat person!

It is so nice to have you back. Talk to you soon!


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## Mammax4

Glad to hear your head is in a better place now... is it really? or is that the public face?

I know, 20 years seems like so long ago to have left high school. When I look back at all that has happened since then though, it seems like not near long enough.

DH and I sat on the couch and talked until way past bedtime last night. Continuing dialogue.... I feel bad in some ways, he just doesn't understand me at the moment. Not sure I do at times. I brought up being tired of nothingness (in a nicer way of course) that we don't do anything anymore... We are boring. I have the double complication of being in the house all the time. Cabin fever in the summer?? uh oh.

I think I freaked him out a bit too. I asked him what he would like to do to nurture him as an individual. We don't do that anymore... we pay good lip service.... once in a blue moon isn't enough. At least it was a conversation filled with even keeled talk and some laughter.

I suppose if we can laugh at ourselves - together, that has to be a good thing.

Glad to hear the house has an end in sight. It will do you good to stop working everyday all the time.


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## lolalapcat

Mich, that is great that you and your DH have this dialog going. And yes, the laughter is a good sign!

I'm pretty sure our DHs could discuss the Mystery of Women for quite a while. Understand us? I'll bet you the most they have is a general overview! To their credit, we are a bit scary.

Yes, you should fix the nothingness. That is not good. The world awaits...

DH bought a bike on Sunday, we are going to start going for bike rides. We both need the exercise, but I think we both need some fun even more.

Did you do that as a kid, ride your bike for hours? I used to love that. And I haven't been on a bike in well over a decade. Why do we give up the simple things that we used to enjoy? I think that contributes to nothingness.

My head is less noisy now, possibly due to my crappy sleep habits. Too tired to think. Eh, whatever works.

Back on antibiotics. Only 5 more months, only 5 more months. I should not have lapsed on probiotics and digestive enzymes between the doses, that was dumb!

So how is your head? Are you going to be okay when Will starts school?


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