# What happens if i refuse to be induced?



## HappyMom38 (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm 31 weeks pregnant, second baby. My doctor recently told me that if I go past 41 weeks they'll induce labour. I couldn't believe it. I know already should that circumstance arise, I will refuse medical treatment, my question, what happens then? Do I just wait until I go into labour and then go to the hospital? Has anyone on this forum refused medical intervention and what happened? I looked into getting a midwife but it's basically too late.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

I would respond with something like "let's not cross that bridge until we come to it", and then drag my feet if we got there.

At 31 weeks, your OB can "fire" you, but at 40+ weeks, it's patient abandonment, so I'd definitely hold off on starting the fight.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Moving to the Pregnancy forum


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

It's never too late to transfer to a midwife...unless it just so happens ALL the midwives in your area are booked, and even then, sometimes they will squeeze you in or suggest someone else to go to.


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## mamatolevi (Apr 10, 2009)

the pregnancy police come and get you and take you to the hospital and make you submit to the induction.







(my doula uses that analogy and I think it's funny - slightly disturbing, but funny)

You are smart to avoid induction simply b/c of the date. you're not late till 42w anyway. Women who are induced are 50% more likely to end up with a c/s. (just a nice little detail my first ob didn't bother to tell me.)

I would not answer the dr about this at this time as the PP is correct that they can drop you from care. At 41w however, it's too late for them to drop you, however, you can fire your dr at any time - including while in labor. I would keep looking for another practice. You may have luck searching through your local ICAN chapter for someone that's more natural birth/less intervention friendly

If you do not want induction then do *not* do the following w/o serious consideration of the risks:

late term u/s to est. size (these can be up to 2# off in either direction); inductions or c/s for suspected fetal macrosomnia are against ACOG guidelines.
allow any cervix checks before 40w;
no membrane stripping during checks- if you think dr will want to strip membranes w/o your consent then refuse the check; You can also make it clear when you get your gbs test that you do not consent to a cervix check (there's no reason for it anyway other than your pants are off, so why not?);
show up when it's scheduled. It's a little passive aggressive, but then so is manipulating and bullying a mother into an unnecessary induction.
DO consider having NST to determine baby's condition, optimal fetal positioning (spinningbabies.com), chiropractic and maybe acupuncture.

If you have a really good bishop's score (which requires a cervix check to determine), say above 6 or 7 or so, then induction might be warranted if the baby is in some distress. with the score at least that high there is a good chance of successful vaginal birth. If they are telling you that you need an induction NOW, and are not picking up the phone to call an ambulance then you have time to think it over. Ask about foley catheter induction rather than pit, and low level management of pit v. active management of labor. (I've had both and the low level with a good bishop's score resulted in my successful VBA2C.) If they mention cytotec, RUN - do not walk - out the door. (there's recent threads on MDC about it. )

good luck and go with your gut!!


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## sierramv (Aug 1, 2007)

I have had three children in three different states and hospitals (MT,CA,MA) and all of them were past 41 weeks. All of my midwives scheduled inductions, but all three of them came naturally in there own time. The day before they were suppose to be induced. Actually with my second son, I called the day before and canceled his induction and he came the following night.

I was very passive aggressive in that sense. I went along with them up to the point when I decided against medical advice what was right for me and my baby. I had the fluid checked and NST, but all was fine and my second son was 9.1# posterior and from start to finish was less than 4 hours. If I had been induced it could have been a day or more of intervention and labor and because he was posterior they would have taken him c-section, but we had no problems.

My advice to you is too push it back as far as possible and if the time comes just call and cancel, tell them that yes you will be in for a NST the next day, because at that point they will be "worried". The bottom line, trust yourself and your baby. Birth is an extremely empowering experience.

Blessed Be!


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

HappyMom38, have you posted in Finding Your Tribe? If midwifery care is not an option, I would be looking for a doula.

FWIW, I had an OB during my first pg. I started seeing him at about 6 months (family doc before then). He mentioned induction, episiotomy, and c-section at every single appointment, due to my small size. I had my appointments at the hospital, and I guess I just assumed that when I showed up in labour, they would let him know. He wasn't called, wasn't there for the birth, and his office called to remind me of a prenatal appointment 3 days after I gave birth. I don't even remember if I was preregistered at the hospital. So, yes, you can ignore your OB and just show up in labour.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Talula Fairie* 
It's never too late to transfer to a midwife...unless it just so happens ALL the midwives in your area are booked, and even then, sometimes they will squeeze you in or suggest someone else to go to.

OP's location is listed as Toronto; chances are, all the midwives for her edd are booked up. They probably were when she was 10 weeks, unless there are many more now than when I lived there. And they can do a little bit of juggling, but legally they can only take so many patients due in any given month (IIRC). It's still worth a shot to give them a call, but unfortunately, demand exceeds supply when it comes to midwives in most parts of Ontario. And with a midwife, if she hit 42 weeks, her primary care would be transfered to an OB, as midwives cannot be the primary care giver for a woman who has reached 42 weeks.


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## guestmama9916 (Jun 24, 2006)

Check your state's laws to see if there is anything on the books about unborn baby's rights. Some states, including the one I live in, have these laws that doctors can use (abuse) to legally force pregnant moms into c-sections and inductions. There is a youtube video that explains it (link below). Beware that some of the stories they talk about are really, really sad.






I would be thinking about ways to compromise/negotiate (for example, agreeing to have extra NSTs after week 41) with your OB if and when the time comes. OBs are mostly concerned about you suing them for malpractice if something goes wrong between week 41 and 42. So you might want to start another thread later on about how to talk to your OB about this subject. I'm sure someone on here has some wisdom about that.


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

Just put your foot down and say no.
Also, if you show up in labor they can't exactly tell you to go elsewhere.
Even though I know all of the MWs in the area are probably full it certainly won't hurt to try.


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## GoldmanBaby09 (Apr 7, 2009)

Good for you for wanting to wait until your baby is ready before evicting him or her. A blanket policy of inducing at 41 weeks is not medically justified and you and your pregnancy deserve to be treated individually. I agree with what MamatoLevi said in her post. I think arming yourself with as much information about being post-dated is to your advantage as well. If you haven't read "A Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth" by Henci Goer, I would highly suggest it. It is also interesting to watch the homebirthing thread, because many of those mamas go after their due dates, into their 41 and 42nd week. And amazingly, there are little to no incidents of fetal macrosomia, placental deterioration or any of the other "scare tactics" OBs routinely use for pushing induction. Stick to your guns, Mama, and let that baby cook until they are ready!


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## mynameisMom (Mar 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatolevi* 
If they mention cytotec, RUN - do not walk - out the door. (there's recent threads on MDC about it. )


Sorry to crash here but I am scheduled for this tomorrow evening, can anyone point me to these threads?


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## Cali2SC (Mar 16, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mynameisMom* 
Sorry to crash here but I am scheduled for this tomorrow evening, can anyone point me to these threads?

I think I just saw it on the thread about having a natural hospital birth, today. I'll try to find the link.

Here it is:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1094669

Don't know how to add links really, but cut and pasting this into browser might work.


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## kawa kamuri (Apr 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mynameisMom* 
Sorry to crash here but I am scheduled for this tomorrow evening, can anyone point me to these threads?

some of them!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...rchid=10213991


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## mynameisMom (Mar 27, 2009)

Thank you, off to read.


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## mariacm (Oct 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mynameisMom* 
Sorry to crash here but I am scheduled for this tomorrow evening, can anyone point me to these threads?

I just PM'ed you with some info... you can find a lot too if you google cytotec induction fda or similar phrases.

HTH!


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## bizzeebee (Jul 29, 2007)

I had to switch OB's and I got a recommendation from a friend. She said "I love him, he's great. And he will induce you whenever you want". UMMM...I don't want an OB with that attitude. BUT I think at this point in time, the majority of women do want to be induced and so I think dr.s assume that offering it is doing you a great favor. I would just say "no, thank you"


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## sunshynbaby (Dec 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatolevi* 
If you do not want induction then do *not* do the following w/o serious consideration of the risks:

late term u/s to est. size (these can be up to 2# off in either direction); inductions or c/s for suspected fetal macrosomnia are against ACOG guidelines.
allow any cervix checks before 40w;
no membrane stripping during checks- if you think dr will want to strip membranes w/o your consent then refuse the check; You can also make it clear when you get your gbs test that you do not consent to a cervix check (there's no reason for it anyway other than your pants are off, so why not?);
show up when it's scheduled. It's a little passive aggressive, but then so is manipulating and bullying a mother into an unnecessary induction.
DO consider having NST to determine baby's condition, optimal fetal positioning (spinningbabies.com), chiropractic and maybe acupuncture.

Is there any other valid reason for a late term ultrasound other than determining the size? I know my OB wants to do one. I also know that my brother and I were big babies, DH and his brother were big babies, and my brother and brother-in-law's kids were all big babies. We are looking at a 8-11pounder here, and I don't need an ultrasound to assure me of that... although I wouldn't be disappointed if heredity is wrong and we end up with a smaller babe, lol!


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## bluebunny (Jul 14, 2006)

With my first, my doctor wanted to induce at 40 weeks exactly. I said no and he scheduled my next appointment for 40 weeks, 5 days and said we could induce then. I said that we would wait and see. DS was born on 40 weeks, 4 days.








Just say no.

ETA: Another reason for late u/s is to check amniotic fluid levels, or so I'm told.


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## murphysaangel (Feb 8, 2008)

I'm looking at a 41-week limit and induction as well - and I'm with a group of midwives! Not all are equal that's for sure.

I'm planning on telling them AT 41 WEEKS that I'll be happy to do a NST and u/s - schedule it for a few days AFTER the 41 point, and then keep stalling as long as I have to when it comes down to being told I "have to" induce. That includes not showing up. And telling them that I think I'm going into labor on my own right now, thank you, and we should just wait and see - I'll call in a few hours. Stuff like that.

Can you hire a doula? It might make you feel a lot better about being with this OB if you aren't. I'm not super happy with my midwives but knowing I have a doula with me who's looking out for my best interests and knows EXACTLY what my vision is, really helps.


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## mamatolevi (Apr 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunshynbaby* 
Is there any other valid reason for a late term ultrasound other than determining the size? I know my OB wants to do one. I also know that my brother and I were big babies, DH and his brother were big babies, and my brother and brother-in-law's kids were all big babies. We are looking at a 8-11pounder here, and I don't need an ultrasound to assure me of that... although I wouldn't be disappointed if heredity is wrong and we end up with a smaller babe, lol!

yes, to check amniotic fluid levels. I have heard, someone who knows better please confirm!!, that a proper diagnosis for "low fluid" needs to be done over two u/s. So if the one comes up "low" get into bed, drink a ton of water, rest and see if it doesn't go up in a day or two. Most folks I know have had their levels go right up after that.

the other reason is to check the condition of the placenta - however from stories I'm hearing on line there are a lot of "your placenta is calcifying horribly" comments and when the baby is born, the placenta is fine. so I dn't really know what to make of u/s for checking placental condition.

BTW: 8# is not a big baby by any means. 10# might be, though not in my book. (my vba2c was 10.5#, a full pound larger than my first c/s baby, so my view of big and little are a wee skewed!)


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## sunshynbaby (Dec 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatolevi* 
yes, to check amniotic fluid levels. I have heard, someone who knows better please confirm!!, that a proper diagnosis for "low fluid" needs to be done over two u/s. So if the one comes up "low" get into bed, drink a ton of water, rest and see if it doesn't go up in a day or two. Most folks I know have had their levels go right up after that.

the other reason is to check the condition of the placenta - however from stories I'm hearing on line there are a lot of "your placenta is calcifying horribly" comments and when the baby is born, the placenta is fine. so I dn't really know what to make of u/s for checking placental condition.

BTW: 8# is not a big baby by any means. 10# might be, though not in my book. (my vba2c was 10.5#, a full pound larger than my first c/s baby, so my view of big and little are a wee skewed!)

Thanks for the info. 8 pounds is being optimistic, lol. I was over 10 and my nephews on either side were 9-11 pounders.


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## Quindin (Aug 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunshynbaby* 
Thanks for the info. 8 pounds is being optimistic, lol. I was over 10 and my nephews on either side were 9-11 pounders.

How big is your dad and the father or your nephews compared to your DH? The dad's size has a lot to do with how big the baby will be.

I personally don't think that the baby's weight is a big deal.
Mine were all 9lb babies exacept for one, yet my 8lb baby was the hardest to push because he had a big head.


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## sunshynbaby (Dec 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quindin* 
How big is your dad and the father or your nephews compared to your DH? The dad's size has a lot to do with how big the baby will be.

I personally don't think that the baby's weight is a big deal.
Mine were all 9lb babies exacept for one, yet my 8lb baby was the hardest to push because he had a big head.


DH was on the smaller side of the scale around 8 pounds. I don't know about my dad's weight at birth. He was born at home on a farm during a blizzard 76 years ago, and there aren't any records, lol. I don't think a big baby will be an issue for me either, which is why I wondered why else the OB would want a late term u/s. I have what they call "birthing hips."


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## mamatolevi (Apr 10, 2009)

about size - fat squishes and heads mold. the only real worry is SD and that can be managed by a competent provider that doesn't just yank on the baby. and though a real worry, it's still rather rare.


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## HappyMom38 (Jan 14, 2009)

Thank you. All these answers are wonderful. I think if the baby isn't born by 41 weeks, I just won't show to the following appointment, wait until I go into labour and have myself taken to the hospital then.

We had midwives last time, and it didn't really work out, somehow (without me understanding the nature of the procedure) I had a stretch and sweep done at 40 + 3 days, went into labour 2 days later, lots of medical intervention. My husband has been wonderfully supportive and was really great about navigating our way through the last birth.

I mean it did work out in the end, in the sense that it was the very best day of my life and we have a wonderful, sweet & healthy, 18 month old baby.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

Holy freak, you're only 31 weeks and the OB is already talking induction? How about he let you go a wee bit post-due before bringing it up! Yikes.

I'm thankful my m/w says 42 weeks before she starts talking induction (and also thankful my babies come around the 40-week mark regardless). I saw an OB with my DS, he wanted to induce me before 40-weeks! I was like 39-weeks 5 days and he wanted to schedule it. I said no, he kept pushing so I finally scheduled it for around 41-ish weeks...well my DS came that weekend following his induction push. I'm thinking he just wanted to avoid coming in early bird on a Sunday like he had to.


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## HappyMom38 (Jan 14, 2009)

thank you, this is very helpful information. i have my next appointment on mon june 29th and i've been reading up about hypnobirthing, which has some good relaxation suggestions. both my brother and my husband were 3 weeks late and were healthy babies.


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## HappyMom38 (Jan 14, 2009)

oh, i'm happy that the dr mentioned this policy early so i have lots of time to mentally prepare in case i'm late and have to refuse medical treatment from them...


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## mamatoady (Mar 16, 2004)

I didn't read all of the responses, but wanted to mention that my OB personally told me that inducing for suspected "big" baby is not supported with medical evidence.

Also, If I were in your shoes, I just wouldn't show up for any scheduled induction. I was induced with my 1st and it was HELL! Agreed with pp who said to run away from cytotec. My doctor with #1 pushed that crap on me, but luckily even 7 year ago, I knew the risks and requested cervidil.

It might be worth it to have a midwife that you can talk into being a consultant for you. I KNOW if my doctor was talking induction for any reason, I would run my entire pregnancy with my midwife for #2 to see if she felt it was medically necessary.

Automatically inducing for being 41 weeks pregnant is just irresponsible. I'd have serious concerns about any doctor doing that as standard procedure. Clearly they're more concerned about liability than mother and baby's health and well being.

~Sarah


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## HappyMom38 (Jan 14, 2009)

i agree with you sarah, any doctor who talks about induction at 41 weeks is clearly irresponsible and cares more about liability than mother and baby.
wow that's something to chew on.

i'm now at 36 weeks and have been reading up on hypnobirthing (which discouraging pretty much any medical intervention). and visualizing a natural and pleasant birth. hope it goes well.

due august 8th 2009. i'll keep you guys posted. thx.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I agree about staying away from cytotec. I have a good friend who ended up with an emercency c-section after they administered it. And I have heard it's the real reason for the increase in uterine ruptures (along with too many c-sections). Bad stuff.


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## Zumbi (Mar 18, 2009)

Yikes I'm scared about this also. I have some awesome midwives and am doing a drug free homebirth....but they told me that in New Mexico (at least where I am close to the Mexico border) it is actually illegal to give birth outside of a hospital past 42 weeks. I really don't want to go to a hospital and I definitely really don't want to be induced. My mom was always late with her 3 kids - into the 42nd week and sometimes 43rd week. We were all fine. Since she was always late and my periods are just like hers - irregular and longer than 28 days I think this may happen to me. How can I delay or cause the baby to come naturally at home? If I refuse induction then I'm told they can arrest me.


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## mamatolevi (Apr 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zumbi* 
Yikes I'm scared about this also. I have some awesome midwives and am doing a drug free homebirth....but they told me that in New Mexico (at least where I am close to the Mexico border) it is actually illegal to give birth outside of a hospital past 42 weeks. I really don't want to go to a hospital and I definitely really don't want to be induced. My mom was always late with her 3 kids - into the 42nd week and sometimes 43rd week. We were all fine. Since she was always late and my periods are just like hers - irregular and longer than 28 days I think this may happen to me. How can I delay or cause the baby to come naturally at home? If I refuse induction then I'm told they can arrest me.

I'd ask a lawyer about that or do some legal searches. I doubt it's true. Your local Legal Aid office might be able to point you in the right direction to get actual information.


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## SummerLynn (Jun 22, 2009)

I am really glad this was all brought up, as i'm sure in about 30 weeks it will be me refusing an induction, with DD1 I was approximately 41weeks and 3 days and they sent me to the hospital to "check on pre eclampsia" and the dr did a cervix check and then just said "alright, lets have a baby today "and popped my water. just like that. From there they immediately started pit, let me labor for 24 hours and then did a c-section becuase i simply wouldnt dialate. So with this new bean, I do not want anyone to even whisper the words induction, pitocin, or c-section in my presence. So im taking mental notes on how to get out of an induction.


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## mamatolevi (Apr 10, 2009)

It ocurred to me this morning that with a family history of big babies, there's likely a family history of perfectly adequate pelvises. I wouldn't worry about the baby's size at all.


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## kcparker (Apr 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatolevi* 
yes, to check amniotic fluid levels. I have heard, someone who knows better please confirm!!, that a proper diagnosis for "low fluid" needs to be done over two u/s. So if the one comes up "low" get into bed, drink a ton of water, rest and see if it doesn't go up in a day or two. Most folks I know have had their levels go right up after that.

the other reason is to check the condition of the placenta - however from stories I'm hearing on line there are a lot of "your placenta is calcifying horribly" comments and when the baby is born, the placenta is fine. so I dn't really know what to make of u/s for checking placental condition.

When I had a NST and BPP at 41 weeks and got a 'borderline low amniotic fluid' result, they said that low amniotic fluid is an "indirect marker for potential placental insufficiency." How's that for hedging? And they refused to do a second fluid check the next day - one shot is whatcha got is what I was told. So if you go for a NST and BPP, dring a LOT of water in the 2-3 hours before you go in, like so much that you think you will float away - a few liters. Seriously.

They wanted me to come back that night to start an induction, and I bargained for time to get acupuncture, do nipple stim, try to get stuff started on its own. I went into labor and had the baby (thankfully without the full induction treatment), my placenta was fine, and I had sufficient fluid...whole lotta stress for no reason.


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## barefootmama0709 (Jun 25, 2009)

Hey mama! I am a proud mommy of two VERY late boys-Canaan was 11d past due, and Ezra was 18!!! I didn't allow induction with Canaan and I did with Ezra-Canaan was a successful vaginal delivery-Ezra ended in an emergency C-section (after 21 hours of labor). Your body will go into labor eventually; whatever you do, DON'T let them scare you with stories of fetal demise or meconium-there was no meconium present for either of mine even though they said it was almost sure to happen. The doctors have to take into account that a lot of patients will sue them if something happens to their baby because they made a decision not to induce, but you have to decide what is best for you and your baby. Don't get forced into something you don't want to do.


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

Moved to Birth and Beyond.


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## AlexisT (May 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zumbi* 
Yikes I'm scared about this also. I have some awesome midwives and am doing a drug free homebirth....but they told me that in New Mexico (at least where I am close to the Mexico border) it is actually illegal to give birth outside of a hospital past 42 weeks. I really don't want to go to a hospital and I definitely really don't want to be induced. My mom was always late with her 3 kids - into the 42nd week and sometimes 43rd week. We were all fine. Since she was always late and my periods are just like hers - irregular and longer than 28 days I think this may happen to me. How can I delay or cause the baby to come naturally at home? If I refuse induction then I'm told they can arrest me.

I don't think it can be illegal to give birth at home--"oops" happens. What they may have meant is that it's illegal for them to attend you past 42 weeks, which is possible (states can set restrictions on midwifery).


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## rainashine (Oct 29, 2008)

Just as an aside, since this has been brought up, there was a recent study released that found that low levels of amniotic fluid is not a risk to normal birth and not a reason to deliver early. It is posted a lot of places but here is one link:

http://news.bio-medicine.org/biology...-birth-5677-1/


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## mamatoady (Mar 16, 2004)

I have a couple thoughts here, but don't know how to post multi-quotes.

Cytotec is not FDA approved and when I recently researched it, found that the makers of it DO NOT think it's a good idea to use for induction. (I googled FDA approved and unaproved drugs for labor and delivery).

Secondly, My 7#5oz. baby (1st child) had a head 1/2 inch bigger around head than my 2nd baby, born at 9# even. Both were born at 10 days early. Both were also pushed out in less than 20 minutes.

It think it is important to talk to your provider about not pulling to hurry the birth. I intend on doing this as well. The only time I want her hands in me is if there's a clear case of shoulder distocia, which shouldn't be happening since I spend my entire labor in hands and knees and squatting position.

Sarah

ETA: dd's head was 14.5" which is a pretty big head...


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

They'll hold a gun to your head?

Nothing. It's your body, you are in charge of it. Period. This is not even up for negotiation.


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## MegBoz (Jul 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
They'll hold a gun to your head?

Nothing. It's your body, you are in charge of it. Period. This is not even up for negotiation.

Once again.. I say it's just not that simple.

I don't think 31W is too late to switch at all. If you have options, I'd encourage you to explore them. Check with your tribal area here on MDC, LLL, etc. to find natural-birth friendly providers (consider HB, a free-standing birth center, or work to find the most NCB-friendly hospital with good MWs or consider a Family practicioner doc instead of OB or work to find a good NCB-friendly OB.)

I really don't think it's a wise choise to continue care with an HCP you don't trust and just coninually refuse everything.







OK, you can, and SHOULD refuse induction for going past 41W.














: Considering Mittendorf's research shows the average 1st time Mama goes to 41W1D on AVERAGE, yeah, induction for being 41W0D is idiotic.

HOWEVER.. what if you chose to get an NST & they say results are not reassuring? What if you DO get pre-eclamptic & induction is best? Do you trust your HCP when moving forward in that situation - where you may NEED their involvement?

All that aside, what if you go into labor naturally & everything is peachy-keen, but they see problems with the baby's HR? What if they say after birth they're concerned about bleeding & want to treat you (say with pit or something.)

*Again, I state, do you REALLY want to continue care with an HCP whom you don't trust & "JUST SAY NO! It's my body!"







Um, I don't think that's a wise course of action*.

For example, I had a picture-perfect awesome birth, but my MW was concerned about some retained membrane from the BOW. She was massaging my uterus but still a little concerned. She wanted DS to BF...







he wasn't interested! I tried with the help of my doula, but he just looked at us - wouldn't open his mouth. I'm on camera saying to him, "C'mon, help me out."









My MW watched & waited, but since he wouldn't BF, she wanted to give me pit to make sure that membrane all came out. She offered me the option of IM (intramuscular- a shot) or in IV. I had NO concerns trusting her. None! I'd HATE to have to constantly second guess my HCP. Not fun!

Besides, if your HCP DOES differ from your outlook, um, yeah, *I don't think I'd want to be arguing & "saying no" & arguing & debating through my whole labor, birthing & PP period!* Talk about annoying, distracting, inhibiting, infuriating, etc.

In other words - I don't advocate a strategy of "Just say no" (Do whatever you want anyway, stick with an HCP you don't trust).


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MegBoz* 
Once again.. I say it's just not that simple.

In other words - I don't advocate a strategy of "Just say no" (Do whatever you want anyway, stick with an HCP you don't trust).

But it IS that easy.

There were a lot of things I simply said "no" to, and I _love_ my doctor. I'm not sure why it's believed that every time one wants to say no to a procedure the doc gets defensive and it becomes a fight. It's not so.

Do you want prenatal testing? No thanks. Okey dokey. No fights.

My doc says - you want me to induce so you have the baby for the tax deduction this year? I say nope. She said okey dokey.

Where was the battle?

Before labor, she said do you want to be checked for dilation? I said nope. She said cool. In labor, she says, you want me to check you? I said no thanks... she said Okey dokey. No battle.

Every time you make your wishes known it doesn't mean it's going to be a fight. Doctors really do respect patients who know what they want, who come in armed with information. Really.

And yes, there is no question whatsoever that YOU are in charge when you are in the doctor's office. That absolutely is not debatable. A doctor won't even debate that.

Good luck.


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## Pirogi (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatoady* 
Cytotec is not FDA approved and when I recently researched it, found that the makers of it DO NOT think it's a good idea to use for induction. (I googled FDA approved and unaproved drugs for labor and delivery).


Cytotec (generic name misoprostol) is FDA approved *for reducing the risk of gastric ulcers.* It is used off-label by some OBs for inducing labor. Yes, definitely shouldn't be used for that. But, there was an interesting thread on the Birth Professionals forum a few months ago about using it to control PPH that doesn't respond to conventional drugs or herbs. Interesting read.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatolevi* 
yes, to check amniotic fluid levels. I have heard, someone who knows better please confirm!!, that a proper diagnosis for "low fluid" needs to be done over two u/s. So if the one comes up "low" get into bed, drink a ton of water, rest and see if it doesn't go up in a day or two. Most folks I know have had their levels go right up after that.

Gloria Lemay (famed Canadian midwife) says that low amniotic fluid can't be properly diagnosed via ultrasound. She contends that the only true way to detect low amniotic fluid is via palpation, which is primarily a midwifery skill. She has an interesting blog about the biophysical profile on her website.


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## MegBoz (Jul 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
But it IS that easy.

There were a lot of things I simply said "no" to, and I _love_ my doctor. I'm not sure why it's believed that every time one wants to say no to a procedure the doc gets defensive and it becomes a fight. It's not so.

No, that's not what I said. Not at all. Not in the least. I said the reason I don't advocate retaining the services of a Health Care Provider you frequently disagree with:

You MAY actually need medical help! If that happens, do you trust the HCP to do the right thing?
(i.e. the doc may TELL YOU you need what they _think_ you need, such as induction, because it's what they personally _want_ to do! How are you to know the difference?!? Because yes, sometimes induction really IS medically necessary.)
I think most women don't really want to HAVE to say "no" over & over again during labor, birth, and postpartum (just annoying.)
The doc may do things without even telling you, let alone awaiting your permission (happens All.The.Time.)
What if you are unable to advocate for yourself to continue saying no because you're physically just too exhausted from laboring that you cave and give in? (Birthing tends to be draining on women, mentally & emotionally as well as physically.)
Is that clear? I can try to describe it another way....

Again, NONE of the reasons listed out above have anythign to do with the doctor arguing with you when you DO say "no." Is that clear?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
My doc says - you want me to induce so you have the baby for the tax deduction this year? I say nope. She said okey dokey.

Where was the battle?

Right.....
But that was _YOUR_ experience. I'm glad _you_ had that experience. That's great. I'm glad _your_ doc was so respectful & reasonable. But... that's _your_ experience and all too often, that is not the case. That's the point I'm trying to make here - all too often, that is not the case.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
And yes, there is no question whatsoever that YOU are in charge when you are in the doctor's office. That absolutely is not debatable. A doctor won't even debate that.










I've said this to you before and I'll say it again, please read some books such as "Pushed" by Jennifer Block and "Born in the USA" by Dr. Marsden Wagner in addition to reading birth stories. This isn't just my personal opinon here... it's been documented extensively in numerous sources.







It's not my personal paranoia.

This is simply not true. Perhaps the majority of doctors "would not debate that you [patient] are in charge" but there ARE many MANY doctors who think they are in charge! Many don't respect a patient's autonomy - presenting what they are about to do as if there are no options or bullying them into what the doc wants. But worse, many don't even INFORM patients that they are about to perform a procedure before they move forward with it (amniotomy being a common example.)

Heck, there are even many PATIENTS who think the Doc is in charge! How often do we hear of women saying, "My doc will _let_ me go to 41W then he induces."







... we've all heard things like that before. So you really mean to tell me _all docs_ and _all patients_ alike think that "it is not debatable that the patient is the one in charge?" Really?


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

Fine.

I try to express to women on here, again and again and _again_, that doctors are not all the devil. That there are more great doctors than bad doctors. That just because one wants an OB doesn't mean they're setting themselves up for a period of interventions and hell the entire time.

Women never talk as much about their great experiences with doctors and hospitals as they do their horrible ones (the old adage that you tell 10 people about a bad visit to a restaurant but only tell 2 people about a good one). So yeah, more people hear about how terrible their (rare) doc was.

I try. I try to tell women that doctors can be great, doctors can be supportive, they absolutely unquestionably are out there, but I just get beat up at every turn with people who want to say that their aren't. Good doctors and good hospitals are much more abudant than bad ones. Having a hospital birth can be intervention free and lovely. Doctors _will_ follow a patient's wishes. Maybe I need to write a book about that so that there's a counterpart to the negative books. Even though I would've loved to have had home births, I can't complain about my OB and my hospital.

And there's millions and millions of women out there who say the same thing. I just wish we could all pass on more positive messages here rather than focusing on the (rare) negatives.

Outta this thread now.


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## purplepaperclip (May 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
Fine.

I try to express to women on here, again and again and _again_, that doctors are not all the devil. That there are more great doctors than bad doctors. That just because one wants an OB doesn't mean they're setting themselves up for a period of interventions and hell the entire time.

Women never talk as much about their great experiences with doctors and hospitals as they do their horrible ones (the old adage that you tell 10 people about a bad visit to a restaurant but only tell 2 people about a good one). So yeah, more people hear about how terrible their (rare) doc was.

I try. I try to tell women that doctors can be great, doctors can be supportive, they absolutely unquestionably are out there, but I just get beat up at every turn with people who want to say that their aren't. Good doctors and good hospitals are much more abudant than bad ones. Having a hospital birth can be intervention free and lovely. Doctors _will_ follow a patient's wishes. Maybe I need to write a book about that so that there's a counterpart to the negative books. Even though I would've loved to have had home births, I can't complain about my OB and my hospital.

And there's millions and millions of women out there who say the same thing. I just wish we could all pass on more positive messages here rather than focusing on the (rare) negatives.

Outta this thread now.

Well said! I am one of the ones who have had a kick ass intervention free hospital experience! I totally try to pass that info on because it does seem that all you hear about are the horrible experiences. Good ones can be had and there *are* supportive, amazing OBs out there.


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## MegBoz (Jul 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
I try to express to women on here, again and again and _again_, that doctors are not all the devil. That there are more great doctors than bad doctors. That just because one wants an OB doesn't mean they're setting themselves up for a period of interventions and hell the entire time.

Good point & you're right - there are fabulous OBs out there - just like there are awful MWs.

BUT... I think the important takeaway here is *be informed! Ask questions!* Yes, there are many horror stories so you can't blindly trust your HCP! & *if you find that you are having to say "no" to lots of anti-evidenced based stuff your OB wants to do (such as induction for reaching 41W), well, maybe that is a red flag.* Maybe instead of "Just say no" it might be better to get outta there & find another HCP (if there are numerous red flags.)

The other issue I have here is that I'm NOT advising people to be cautious because I had a bad experience. It wouldn't make sense to caution women against using the services of all OBs because I personally had a bad experience with one OB ya know?

*But my advice for caution is based on facts & stats!*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
Good doctors and good hospitals are much more abudant than bad ones. Having a hospital birth can be intervention free and lovely.

Well, tecnically, having an intervention free hospital birth really _is_ less likely than having interventions. That's just the facts again.
When you add up CS, induction, augmentation & instrumental deliveries, natural birth is in the minority in America today. (& that's not even counting epidurals! Epidural rates in many hospitals are in the high majority - 80+%!)

Again, if 10% of docs were doing awful things, I wouldn't pound the point into the ground... But the CS rate is near 33%, induction + augmentation makes up like another 30% or so. (I forget exactly, but I remember reading in "Born in the USA" that it WAS over 50% when those were totalled. Dr. Wagner made a funny point like "What has happened to the uteruses of American women that they don't functioin properly & must be flogged into shape with drugs?")

& I wouldn't worry about everyone thinking OBs & hospitals are evil. There are PLENTY of books that tell women to "trust your HCP" unquestioningly. While I have no stats, I would venture to guess the majority of books on PG & birth fall into that category. & I base my guess on the fact _most Americans_ believe this. (As I mentioned before, we've all heard sentences such as "This doc will _let you_ go to 41W." - it doesn't even occur to people that then can 'say no'.


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## womenswisdom (Jan 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zumbi* 
Yikes I'm scared about this also. I have some awesome midwives and am doing a drug free homebirth....but they told me that in New Mexico (at least where I am close to the Mexico border) it is actually illegal to give birth outside of a hospital past 42 weeks. I really don't want to go to a hospital and I definitely really don't want to be induced. My mom was always late with her 3 kids - into the 42nd week and sometimes 43rd week. We were all fine. Since she was always late and my periods are just like hers - irregular and longer than 28 days I think this may happen to me. How can I delay or cause the baby to come naturally at home? If I refuse induction then I'm told they can arrest me.

Did your midwives tell you this? I would double-check that for sure. No one can be forced to submit to any medical procedure in the absence of a court order. And good luck getting one for an induction. It very well may be illegal for them to attend your birth past 42 weeks if that is a restriction on practice in their state, but it most definitely is not a criminal act for you to refuse induction. Also, you might want to discuss your "guess date" with your midwives, as a cycle longer than 28 days should be taken into consideration when determining your due date and it should be adjusted accordingly.


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## Mirrormonkey (Jan 6, 2009)

I am pregnant with my second, I am using a different dr this time around. With my first he induced me ON MY DUE DATE! Apparently I did not know when I got pregnant... I am only 9 weeks along so far, haven't even met my new dr and am already panicking.

Just had to share, this thread is making me stress.


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## pinksprklybarefoot (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *womenswisdom* 
It very well may be illegal for them to attend your birth past 42 weeks if that is a restriction on practice in their state, but it most definitely is not a criminal act for you to refuse induction.

I would guess that this is the case. I can't imagine some sort of "mandatory induction" law being passed. Although I've been surprised before.


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
My doc says - you want me to induce so you have the baby for the tax deduction this year?









That's a new one...


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turquesa* 







That's a new one...









My due date was January 1st, she figured I'd go early (like I did with two of my other ones), but come December 26, still no baby...

I had her on my due date - the first baby of the new year... and no, they don't give you a year's worth of diapers like in the movies... LOL!


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

I have had three hospital births. the first I didn't know I could say "NO" to anything.

The second and third births it was "No.No.No.No.No...." endlessly for the 16 days they went past 40 weeks. My midwives were great about it. They had concerns but didn't push hard. Their backups, who I had to see past 41 weeks were snarky and snotty and ugly about it. But they couldn't make me induce, and couldn't make me schedule a section.


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## Kelly1101 (Oct 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
But it IS that easy.

There were a lot of things I simply said "no" to, and I _love_ my doctor. I'm not sure why it's believed that every time one wants to say no to a procedure the doc gets defensive and it becomes a fight. It's not so.

Do you want prenatal testing? No thanks. Okey dokey. No fights.

My doc says - you want me to induce so you have the baby for the tax deduction this year? I say nope. She said okey dokey.

Where was the battle?

Before labor, she said do you want to be checked for dilation? I said nope. She said cool. In labor, she says, you want me to check you? I said no thanks... she said Okey dokey. No battle.

Every time you make your wishes known it doesn't mean it's going to be a fight. Doctors really do respect patients who know what they want, who come in armed with information. Really.

And yes, there is no question whatsoever that YOU are in charge when you are in the doctor's office. That absolutely is not debatable. A doctor won't even debate that.

Good luck.

This, this, this, this.

The important thing, of course, is that you MUST trust your hcp, whether it's a doctor, midwife, whatever. Yes, it is totally within your rights to refuse any treatment. But it's a good idea to be able to talk to your hcp, tell him/her your concerns, and be able to make informed and comfortable decisions about what you want to consent to, and what you want to refuse. It does you NO good to be paranoid that your doctor is going to force you into things, panicking you into a state of automatic refusal. Because (I know that the odds are against this, and not trying to scare) there is a tiny chance that, if something were to go wrong, you need to know that your doctor wants what is best for you and the baby-- WHILE also being sure that your doctor knows your philosophy on birth and what you want out of it.

I had a "mainstream" OB, but he was aware of my desire to go with minimal intervention and no epidural. Circumstances arose where he suggested augmenting with pitocin-- he didn't force it on me, he didn't bully me-- he asked me and let me decide. Being able to choose is the important thing, no matter what your choice is.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mirrormonkey* 
I am pregnant with my second, I am using a different dr this time around. With my first he induced me ON MY DUE DATE! Apparently I did not know when I got pregnant... I am only 9 weeks along so far, haven't even met my new dr and am already panicking.

Just had to share, this thread is making me stress.

Don't stress.







Talk to your new doctor about your past experience and your concerns. If you get a bad vibe, drop him/her and find another. But likely the new doctor will be understanding.


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## Mirrormonkey (Jan 6, 2009)

In regards to SandraS post about her doctor respecting her saying "no".

You are lucky and sound like you have a great understanding doctor. Where I live there is a doctor shortage and I did not get to choose who I used.

An example of my experience while I was pregnant with my son. I mentioned my wish to not use a vaccuum or forceps in the delivery and that I would rather have a c-section, he said no and that if that is the case he would have to take his fist and shove the baby back into me to avoid using forceps or vaccuum. Most of my requests were met wit the response that I should stop reading so much about pregnancy and child birth and to just go with what he said.

Not suprisingly a few months after my son was born he left family medicine and went into anesthesia...


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## ladyg (Jan 24, 2007)

I was with an excellent CNM and OB practice until week 34 with my first. Then it became apparent to me that our philosophies were simply not going to work together and that I was going to cause them problems-- and they me.

I do not demonize them -- I simply found that they would not suit my needs. They felt that with me at 5 ft and my husband over 6'2", and a history of large family babies, that I was not going to be able to carry a larger than 7 1/2 pound baby. I argued that my sister was 9 pounds 10 oz, at 44 weeks and breech and my mom had her in two hours, to no avail. They were adamant that I was going to need induction early and a section.

After my husband and I discussed it, we called several area HB midwives and transferred care. We were very happy with that decision.

My son was born at 5 days post dates (not unusual especially since we were unsure of our dates)- more than two weeks after they were planning to induce, at 22.5 inches and 8 pounds 10 oz, in a 3 hour labor.

Clearly doable.

My point is to not be afraid to call around and see if you can get a better match!


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## erin_brycesmom (Nov 5, 2005)

I was induced with my first at 42 weeks and 4 days. With my second, I really wanted to avoid induction. I spent the 2 years in between those birth studying post term pregnancy extensively (we're talking hours daily). I changed providers three times (including during the third trimester) when the doctor would start showing his true colors about induction. Even the last group agreed not to push for induction before 42 weeks unless there was a medical indication. I agreed to do the NSTs that they wanted me to do. Well what do you know...a few days before 42 weeks they insisted on an induction even though I just passed an NST/BPP with flying colors. It was not as easy as "just saying no". I said no and I got the dead baby card played BIG TIME. I knew my stuff though so I discussed it with the OB and then asked for evidence to back up what he was saying. He actually brought out an obstetrical text books and showed me a bunch of graphs to try to back up what he was saying. One of the graphs showed that the mortality rate for babies born at 42 weeks was just as high as babies born at 22 weeks. Turns out he was actually misrepresnting the data but he was very good at doing so. I wasn't giving in so they told me I'd have to sign an Against Medical Advice waiver. It stated that I had been informed that I was putting my baby's at risk for death by not agreeing to the induction. I went ahead and signed it. I walked away but I definitely felt shaken. I started to doubt myself briefly. I can totally see why so many women give in to their doctors. If I hadn't done so much research, I know I would have given in too.

I ended up having my baby on my own right at 42 weeks. It was a really wonderful natural hospital birth. I just had my third baby almost 4 weeks ago and this time I had a homebirth. It was so nice not to have to fight, not to have to go through so much all along the way to avoid induction. I had this baby at 41 weeks and 2 days...my first to be born before 42 weeks! I think being able to stay relaxed and stress free did make things progress sooner. If there is another provider you can switch to that would respect your wishes on letting your baby come on his/her own then I would definitely switch asap.


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## MegBoz (Jul 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ladyg* 
My point is to not be afraid to call around and see if you can get a better match!











& my point has been that *you need to call arond to see if you can get a better match* _(IF you find yourself having to 'say no' often.)_
Look around & try to find the best match, instead of 'just saying no.'


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## HappyMom38 (Jan 14, 2009)

Well, now I'm at 38 weeks. It's true that it's no fun being with a HCP I don't trust. When I asked her how they induced the baby, she told me all the different methods, my heart rate went up and she sent me for an EEG.

I met someone recently, same hospital, fought to have baby not induced and baby was born 14 days past due date.

I definitely won't let them induce me, and my husband is on the same page as me. He's really good at helping me put my foot down, if I start to doubt myself. But it's true, it has meant that now I have to watch for everything the dr. says and does since i no longer find her reliable.

My husband came with me to my last appointment. I'm with a team of doctors, one I trust (somewhat), and one I don't. The one I do, is the head dr. and the other one is a resident. I was told that I don't have to have her (the resident) at the birth if I don't feel comfortable with her. Though they both uphold the notion that a baby should not go past 41 weeks.

Being armed with information and emotional support is helpful. Thank you, wishing and praying, relaxing and meditating for a peaceful birth.


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## HappyMom38 (Jan 14, 2009)

"There were a lot of things I simply said "no" to, and I _love_ my doctor. I'm not sure why it's believed that every time one wants to say no to a procedure the doc gets defensive and it becomes a fight. It's not so. "

Either your doctor is pretty easy going and is open and respectful to various methods of birthing, or you have mastered the art of being both laid back and assertive and respectful.

I said no pretty much to all pre-natal testing other than ultrasound pretty easily, but lately for some reason, maybe my guard has been down, it's been more difficult to re-direct my doctor when she says, "let's check that just in case"


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

It's the "just in case" that makes it so difficult, though. I've been referred to consultant-led care this time round and I can see why my hospital has a 30% c-section rate: and this is my fifth kid and I always thought I was a fairly informed consumer







: I actually think that most doctors have no idea how distressing a medically managed pregnancy can be and how the constant fear that your body is malfunctioning can affect you, and unfortunately, I doubt that anyone has looked for statistics on midwife-led/ doctor-led care and pre-natal depression.


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## MegBoz (Jul 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HappyMom38* 
Either your doctor is pretty easy going and is open and respectful to various methods of birthing, or you have mastered the art of being both laid back and assertive and respectful.

The fact that the person you're quoting also birthed all her babies less than 60 minutes after walking into the hospital also helps a little teeny-tiny bit!









Basically every post here that asks how to have the best chance of a good low/no-intervention hospital birth seems include 3 primary keys:
1. pick the best HCP & hospital you can
2. get a doula
3. labor at home as long as possible.

So those of us that basically showed up at the hospital & pushed the baby out (that was me) are, _of course_ going to have had dramatically lower risks of having to "fight" through laboring. (Well, since we didn't even "_labor"_ in the hospital anyway!)


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

MegBoz, it's very clear that you take issue with my trying to tell women all doctors aren't Satanic Beasts that don't give a rat's arse what their patients want. It has nothing to do with how long I was in labor - my wishes were well known long before I even conceived the babes, and my doctor was to follow those wishes to a "T". She was paid to do that, she's not superior to me or in control of me - I'm the paying customer, she is there to service ME, _NO MATTER WHAT_.

Like I said before, and like you will so predictibly argue, there are MILLIONS of doctors out there like mine that actually respect their patients and will follow their wishes. Period. You can spew all the stats you want, I don't care. I'm not the only one that had a great experience, whether it be for an hour or for 20 hours. It would've made NO DIFFERENCE.

The floor is yours again to tell women that I have the only doctor in the continental United States that's like this, and no one should ever trust a doctor because they will never ever ever do what they want.


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## MegBoz (Jul 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
MegBoz, it's very clear that you take issue with my trying to tell women all doctors aren't Satanic Beasts that don't give a rat's arse what their patients want.

I don't take issue with you saying all docs are not evil. (Actually, I agree there! There are lots of awesome docs in the world!) What I _do_ take issue with is you saying that it is "so simple - just say no." *It is NOT that simple.* Because *there ARE docs who don't respect patients wishes.* (And others who do end up intervening because they truly believe their interventions are medically necessary when they're not (or there could be other ways), because they don't know any other way to practice.)

So *it's important for women to find a good HCP in the first place.* .*THAT* is the way to work towards a good birth experience - NOT simply "just say no."

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
It has nothing to do with how long I was in labor - my wishes were well known long before I even conceived the babes, and my doctor was to follow those wishes to a "T".

In _your_ case, I don't doubt you are right. You had a fabulous doc who would not have pushed unwanted interventions on you. & that is GREAT!

But for all other women out there who don't have your same doc, it is often said that the longer you labor in the hospital, the better your chances of having some intervention. (I'm not the first to have said that... It's a very common sentiment.)
In this article in our Baltimore City Paper, an OB said exactly that himself:

Quote:

"If you are here long enough, we are going to do something to you. It's a matter of time. I will be the first one to admit that," he says. "The trade-off is that I am going to make sure that nothing happens to you or to the baby.

"So which risk do you want? You can't have it both ways."
(this is the doc who oversees Maryland's most prolific labor and delivery hospital ward.)
So I do think that is very relevant in general (even though it may not be relevant for you personally.).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
Like I said before, and like you will so predictibly argue, there are MILLIONS of doctors out there like mine that actually respect their patients and will follow their wishes. Period. You can spew all the stats you want, I don't care. I'm not the only one that had a great experience, whether it be for an hour or for 20 hours. It would've made NO DIFFERENCE.

Have I really ever said that there is no such thing as a doc who will be respectful of a patient's wishes? I hope not, that's not something I ever meant to communicate.
Again, I simply wish to communicate you cannot just blindly trust any HCP. You must chose carefully. "Just say no" is not a good 'strategy' for ensuring that you receive compassionate, respectful, and evidence-based maternity care. (again, I 'spew stats' because anti-evidence based care is abundant. It's not as though the 'risks I'm spewing are one-in-a-million!)

Heck, I could say the same about my DH! I had to chose him carefully. (and WHEW did I make some bad choices first!







Now that I have chosen him, I trust him, but you must evaluate carefully before choosing. Do you disagree there?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
The floor is yours again to tell women that I have the only doctor in the continental United States that's like this, and no one should ever trust a doctor because they will never ever ever do what they want.

Please, please quote me. If I've misrepresented myself so innacurrately as to lead any to believe I really think there is only ONE good doc (or one-in-a-million good ones), I'd like to know which words it was so I can rectify the issue & be sure to present myself more clearly in the future.


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## murphysaangel (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
...my wishes were well known long before I even conceived the babes, and my doctor was to follow those wishes to a "T". She was paid to do that, she's not superior to me or in control of me - I'm the paying customer, she is there to service ME, _NO MATTER WHAT_.

Like I said before, and like you will so predictably argue, there are MILLIONS of doctors out there like mine that actually respect their patients and will follow their wishes. Period. You can spew all the stats you want, I don't care. I'm not the only one that had a great experience, whether it be for an hour or for 20 hours. It would've made NO DIFFERENCE.

I really wish I could find JUST ONE doctor in my area that would respect MY wishes during my pregnancy and labor. Trust me, I researched it fully. They simply do not exist. And if they do, they *can't* support my wishes because they go against HOSPITAL policy. And against INSURANCE policy. And against AMA and ACOG and all the pharmacy-owned statistics that they go by. So yeah, your doctor might not literally be one in a million, but she/he is CERTAINLY few and far between. I definitely had to concede to a certain level of care just to be SEEN by these HCP's for prenatal care. My wishes? Out the window.

And it CERTAINLY doesn't hurt to tell women to empower themselves, to inform themselves, to EDUCATE themselves about their choices and to be alert and educated enough to be prepared for a fight if it comes down to it...because more than likely IT WILL.


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## Belle (Feb 6, 2005)

: subbing.


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