# city vs country living for raising kids



## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

and i guess there are towns of many sizes in between...

i was raised in a very secluded rural setting my dh was raised in a fair sized city...
i think living in the country is best for raising children...my dh thinks city is best....

i could go into why (and i will) but i really want some input from other AP NFL moms...
b/c that is my thing, i think NFL and AP lifestyles just FLOW better when you can have your kids in your dirt and under your trees.

but please let us know what you think.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

DH and I both cant wait to go rural!
I really think that rural living lends itself better to fresh air and lots of exercise, freedom to explore and healthy fresh foods.
I dont have any good climbing trees in my yard. I dont know my neighbors.
joline


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

We're in a rural area and love it. It does make NFL easy we are very laid back, spend alot of time in dirt. Many people around us are NFL.







I do go into town (35 miles away)about twice a week for library storytime, groceries, etc... so we spend time in the car. Local, organic produce is easy to find here. We don't do scheduled activites other then the storytime so yeah dd's not into music classes, etc... like many urban dc are. I have lived in a rural setting for the vast majority of my life, there are some things that I would like dd to be exposed to that I was not as a child, plays and stuff, we plan on doing alot of local events with her, and as she gets older, go to the city for a weekend of arts. I'm biased, I don't know how I'd raise children in the city, :LOL we spend so much time outside, even in the snow, there is always something to do.


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## Leatherette (Mar 4, 2003)

We live in the city, have a yard (with chickens), spend a lot of time at the many public parks that we can walk to, don't do lots of classes. We grow our own fruit and vegetables as well as having access to many farmers' markets.

We are able to bus it downtown and have access to museums, aquariums. We live two blocks from the zoo, three blocks from a lake with a walking path around it.

Multiculturalism and diversity are really important to our family, and I think that is easier to find in the city, though of course, not impossible rurally.

I can't speak to all cities, but I love raising kids in our city (Seattle).

L.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

There are good things about either. I think it depends on your family which is better.

We are rural right now but lived in a city for a few years.
In the city we were close to places like the zoo, museums, libraries, malls, schools etc. There was public transportation. The pace of life seemed rushed and busy always. A lot of kids were shuffled from school to activity after activity. We had a small fenced in yard. Not everyone had a yard in our neighborhood for their kids to play. A lot of young kids just wandered the neighborhood without supervision. They played in the street dodging cars. They were pretty wild and destructive. Every time we walked out of our house our neighbors were in our face. There was more variety and diversity in services, stores, churches, and people. Nature was not really part of our lives daily and we didn't always feel safe. We were kind of annonymous.

Now we are rural. The nearest city of size is a 45 minute drive away. There are small towns closer. Our choices are more limited- go to the one grocery store in nearest small town or drive 45 minutes to where we can choose from a multitude of stores. Shop at Walmart in nearest town or drive 45 minutes. There is one cable company for our area. Our former cell phone will not get service here. Not all internet providers have access numbers for our area. Stores are not open 24/7. No public transportation. There is less traffic around here. The library is smaller but on our first visit the staff pretty much gave us a personal tour without us asking. Very friendly place. People don't have playdates around here it seems- maybe don't need them. We feel safer. I think things are more family oriented around here. Things are slower paced and we like that. I feel it is a better fit for our family.
We have a huge yard. Dd loves to run and explore. We saw deer in our yard this summer as well as ground squirrels, birds, raccoons, frogs, thousands of fireflies and other bugs. We hear birds instead of sirens and traffic. We have space to plant a big garden. We are watching less TV. We all love the space we have. Probably once or twice a month we do drive to the city and enjoy some of what that has to offer.
I think in some ways our dd's world is bigger now that we live rural. In the city everything was pretty close so we didn't go very far. Our lives were contained in a pretty small radius. We went to the same places all the time. Now we experience a lot of different places. Since we already have to drive to get somewhere it doesn't seem so big a deal to go 45 to 2 hours to do things we want to do or visit friends and family. We aren't locked into one neighborhood or one town.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

I think urban would be wonderful if it was sort of a Euro urban environment, or in some really progressive place like San Francisco or Vancouver but I wouldn't live in our near-by city, Philadelphia because it has decayed, there's a lot of crime, the schools suck, and it's corrupt.

I'm not interested in rural life, either, because it's too slow paced.

We presently live in a suburb (not the best thing.) and I commute to college (less than 20 minutes) so we have the benefit of being close to a nice little college town. I don't like the mall culture but what can you do?

Debra Baker


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

I think it depends a lot on what you are looking for as an individual family. I know that I daydream a lot about living so far out in the country that I can't see my neighbors, where I have a creek and trees and all that stuff. I dream about how idyllic it would be and how I would sit on my deck and watch my children romp through the fields.

In reality, I wouldn't be happy without easy access to a good library network (not just one library, but many). I wouldn't be happy without public transportation. I wouldn't be happy having to make a major trip anytime I wanted to take my kids to an activity. I wouldn't be happy without easy access to health food stores and vegetarian dining options. I wouldn't be happy without a Dharma Center. I wouldn't be happy without other multi-racial families around. If I lived in the sticks, these things would not be easily accessible to me.

I don't think it's any harder to be NFL in the city. We live in the city but we have a garden. We visit the farmer's market that's right in the city. We spend a lot of time outside. We don't use a ton of gasoline.

I think there are good things about rural living and good things about city living, and I don't think it has to be a an either/or or a "this is more NFL than that."

Namaste!


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

(Disclaimer: I'm not especially interested in NFL, for myself. AP is what's important to me, and I think that can be done anywhere.)

Here are some reasons why I've chosen to raise my family in the inner city:

- I want my kids to grow up surrounded by people from all walks of life - all races, ethnicities, religions, income levels, sexual orientations. That's very easy to do in a dense urban center. I want them to know diversity and multiculturalism at bedrock-level, and not as something we have to teach them.

- I love the educational resources available in the city. When our daughter is older, we'll have our choice of progressive private and charter schools. Plus there are tons of cultural resources: libraries, museums, historical sites, arts programs, music, dance. Whatever my kids are interested in, we should be able to find rich opportunities for them to explore and learn more.

- I think there's less pressure to conform in the city, and more of an opportunity to find "people like you" no matter what that means. I grew up in a small town and I was so lonely much of the time - there weren't really other kids at school who liked learning for its own sake (not just to get good grades) or who were passionately interested in politics.

- We practice a minority religion. Living in a big city means easy access to an excellent church and religious education program. Rural areas tend to be pretty Christian.


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

I agree with the pp's who mentioned easy access to veg*n food and diverse populations as the reason to live in cities or suburbs of cities. I spent my elementary school years in a rural town and know that the person I've grown up to be (vegan, pagan/buddhist, bi, in and interracial marriage and a biracial dd) wouldn't be easily accepted there.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

I grew up in a town of about 30,000 with very spread-out construction and lots of strip malls. I hated the aesthetics, the lousy pedestrian experience, and the amount of travel necessary to get anywhere. It was a company town, so the whole social hierarchy was based on the corporate hierarchy. Attitudes were very conformist, right-wing religious, materialistic, homophobic, and somewhat racist. We lived on a street with only 10 houses, but there was never a time when we knew the people living in all of them; we knew the last names of several families only because I sold them Girl Scout cookies, and they never spoke to anyone else in my family.

When I was a little kid watching "Sesame Street", I loved the sequences showing kids living in NYC: walking places, things happening everywhere, cool stuff tucked around every corner, lots of interesting kinds of people instead of all blonds in Izod shirts!!! I yearned for that environment. I spent part of every summer at my grandparents' in NYC and never wanted to go home.

We are raising EnviroBaby in the city. I love giving him a daily life in which walkable neighborhoods, public transit, diverse people, and exotic foods are parts of the everyday atmosphere. We live within walking distance of two major city parks, so there are plenty of lawns and playgrounds available. We don't have to own those things for our exclusive use. (We do have a yard, but it's small.) We belong to a wonderful church that is our "village". It's true that we don't know all our neighbors, but many of the people we see each day are very friendly and pleasant, esp. to a baby.

The only things that worry/bother me about city life are the traffic risks for pedestrians, air pollution (it's a LOT better than it once was, but we still get soot on our windowsills), and noise from busses, trucks, and







Starbucks behind our house getting their dumpster emptied at 2 a.m.!


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmamama*
I think it depends a lot on what you are looking for as an individual family. I know that I daydream a lot about living so far out in the country that I can't see my neighbors, where I have a creek and trees and all that stuff. I dream about how idyllic it would be and how I would sit on my deck and watch my children romp through the fields.

In reality, I wouldn't be happy without easy access to a good library network (not just one library, but many). I wouldn't be happy without public transportation. I wouldn't be happy having to make a major trip anytime I wanted to take my kids to an activity. I wouldn't be happy without easy access to health food stores and vegetarian dining options. I wouldn't be happy without a Dharma Center. I wouldn't be happy without other multi-racial families around. If I lived in the sticks, these things would not be easily accessible to me.

I don't think it's any harder to be NFL in the city. We live in the city but we have a garden. We visit the farmer's market that's right in the city. We spend a lot of time outside. We don't use a ton of gasoline.

I think there are good things about rural living and good things about city living, and I don't think it has to be a an either/or or a "this is more NFL than that."

This is pretty much what I was going to say. I love rural, lived rural for the first 8 years of my life, and have a fantasy of selling everything and moving to a more rural setting, and having space and dirt and trees and grass.

But we love the city, and we take advantage of all the things it has to offer. Before kids, we were always at the theatre, symphony, opera, dining out, etc., and will continue to do that as the kids get older. But right now at least once a week we are at the zoo or the botanical gardens or the aquarium or the discovery center or the tea gardens . . . you get the picture. We walk everywhere - health food store, library, post office, playgrounds. I have a yoga class 3 minutes from my house, and a family martial arts center down the street. There are too many art and dance and music and cooking classes to choose from!

I am very torn about this myself. My heart is in the city - dh and I both love it here. And I think there are definite advantages to raising kids here. But deep down I feel like rural is a better environment for young children.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

I think for many reasons rural is better.

Lets start off with clean air and water.
Room to run free and explore.
Lots of excersise in rural living.
Raise your own food.
The list goes on...

I was raised country lived in a small town for a few years then dh and I moved out the the country to raise our kids. Dh was raised city.

Country raised kids dont seem to get in a much trouble as city kids who dont have as much to do as their country cousins.

IMO city living is about being entertained while country is entertaining yourself.


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momto l&a*
IMO city living is about being entertained while country is entertaining yourself.

I believe this, too. I used to think if I could only live more in the city where I could walk/use public transit (lived this way before kids), that would be best. But my rural upringing is looking better as I see the pace gets more frantic as my kids get older. People are always rushing aorund.

As a child in a rural area, we went to museums and zoos, etc.- but these were special outings. I find my kids in the suburbs expecting to be entertained now and taken places all the time. I'm afraid of them eventually looking outward for what they should be finding in themselves.

Rural living also offers a connection to nature- stars not shrouded by pollution and city lights, open space, wildlife, the rhythms of the seasons. There is an isolation factor if you get too far out in the boonies- I remember feeling this as a teenager in the country. If you didn't have a car, you couldn't see your friends.

There are pros and cons to both.


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## katebleu (Feb 4, 2005)

i don't think either could be quanitatively "better".

but i couldn't live rural. i don't like dirt. i don't drive so i need public tarnsportation. and i need the diversity that i see in the city.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momto l&a*
Lets start off with clean air and water.

As long as you don't live in a rural area that has some sort of chemical company or other factory, such a chicken or hog factory farm, that is poisoning everything.

Quote:

Room to run free and explore.
Cities also have lots of room to explore. It's just a different kind of exploring.

Quote:

Lots of excersise in rural living.
Lots of city dwellers use walking and bicycling as major forms of transportation.

Quote:

Raise your own food.
I live in the city. I have a garden. I could raise chickens if I wanted to. We have friends who have a plot in a community garden. They both raise their own food AND get excercise by walking to the garden.

Quote:

IMO city living is about being entertained while country is entertaining yourself.
IMO, that's not necessarily true. I think you have made a lot of very big and not necessarily valid assumptions.

Namaste!


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whateverdidiwants*
spent my elementary school years in a rural town and know that the person I've grown up to be (vegan, pagan/buddhist, bi, in and interracial marriage and a biracial dd) wouldn't be easily accepted there.









:

Its so true. I grew up (my first 23 years) about as rural as you can possibly be - on a farm (a working small grains farm) about 45 minutes from the nearest city in the upper Midwest. The irony is that alot of NFL values that seem most conduscive to "country" living -- are NOT accepted in "the country". By and large . . . its mainstream America out there!


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## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

i pretty much agree with everyone!!!!
ha!
which is why i feel so torn...
clean air and clean water: you have a better chance of this in the country, but not always so (if you live in the farming belt of this coutnry you hvae to deal with pesicides in your well water and in several mt ranges in this country air pollution from factory towns gets blown south to rural areas adn then trapped in mt range pockets...)

room to run free: i guess the saddest thing for me to watch is my 2 year old dd wanting to discover nature
and if we go for a walk, she is trying to touch things i know just got coated in pesticides
or she wants to pick all of the neighbors flowers or she wants to run into the street or into other people's yards...and you know what, it hurst my heart to make my baby walk a straight side walk line and not toach the world around her.
oh and when she hugged a telephone pole once and said she loved trees, i wanted to cry
it is better to be able to walk in the forest and drive to a museum than waalk to the museum and drive to the forest....

my dh is a totally against country living b/c of all the things people posted, he thinks it will provide too little social life and peer interaction for our dd...not to mention all the conservatives that usually live in rural and small towns at least everywhere except the west coast....


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

By run free I mean without an adult supervising their every move. They are free to play, run and explore on their own accord.

dharmamama, Yes you can have a garden but can you raise a great % of your food?

As to getting more exercise out in the country we spend every day out and about, fixing fences, riding donkeys, mowing a large yard, hunting for eggs, right now picking fruit, chasing insects, hauling in cords of firewood. We are in continual movement from dawn to dusk (aside from the time I spend here :LOL







) where when we lived in town it was spurts of movement. Such as lets walk to the store or wherever from being in the house not doing much, where I see country living as continual moving from one activity to another.

In our neck of the woods no pig, chicken or factories, so lots of fresh air and water. But think of city air and its smog. A person lives in town continually breaths smog. Walking down a sidewalk next to a street where children who are closer to the ground can breathe in all the road dust, fumes. I don't see that as a healthy exercise.

IMO they are very valid assumptions.


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## TranscendentalMom (Jun 28, 2002)

I think it depends what city and what rural setting. If its a progressive city with access to nature & low crime, I think a city is great. We live near Asheville and have often thought about moving there because it fits that bill. But if its a city thats congested and crime ridden, I wouldn't really be that into it. Likewise, we live in a college town that is small, beautiful setting, slow paced and also has SOME diversity and cultural opportunities (tho not as much as I would like). If it were a town that didn't have these things, I wouldn't be that happy here.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momto l&a*
IMO they are very valid assumptions.

I don't agree. I think each environment is what you make of it, and for every country paradise there is a rural hell and the same is true of the city. Neither city nor country is inherently better, it's all in what you prefer.

Namaste!


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## luckylady (Jul 9, 2003)

I grew up in a very small town and it was BORING as he!! as a teenager. Ever see those movies where kids sit in the back of a truck and drink beer and shoot street signs. Yep. Me.

BUT - I had a lot of fun as well - love the wide open spaces, etc.

I would like both for DD - open enough to run and cultured enough to be exposed, as well as opportunities to get into things (dance, music etc). Seattle rocks and is where I am trying to talk DH into moving.


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## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

when i was talking about mt ranges collecting smog i WAS thinking of asheville nc!!!

i love hta town and agree it does have the perfect mix of coutnry living and city fun...but the air there is as bad as LA b/c of the way the mts collect all the smog of pitt etc....

keep it coming ladies, and please mention waht city town state you are talking about,,, b/c you are right it is all reletive.


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## AmyAngel (Dec 3, 2004)

I grew up on a dairy farm in "the county" outside of a small town, where I went to school and we went to the grocery store. We were able to "roam free" -- we had 42 acres and free access to all of it unsupervised - unless you count the dog who our parents would send to find us if we weren't within yelling distance when they were ready to head back to the house. The rules were - don't hurt each other, don't go near the road, watch where you step, stay out of the pile of tires in the gully - there are snakes, and stay out of the hayloft!

We helped with the dairy and the garden, sat outside with our grandparents breaking green beans and listening to them tell stories of their childhoods, got filthy dirty on a daily basis, rode bikes on the driveway and in the pastures, roller skated in the carport and silo, drove tractors, ate fresh veggies in the summer and home-canned ones in the winter, played in the creek, picked wild daffodils and searched the just-plowed fields for "artifacts" from the early cabins that had been on the property.

Best of all, we were only around a 20 minute drive to the city! I like the idea of being able to walk wherever you want to go (though that's not a reality here, everyone drives and almost no one lives downtown), I like having an airport 15 minutes from home, a variety of shopping, museums, restaurants, lots of different places to work, sports teams, theater, even an amusement park fairly close by.

I LOVED being able to run free in the woods and play outside a lot. Now that I look back I think growing a decent percentage of our own food (even meat, on occasion, though not milk! :LOL ) was really cool.

BUT, I get antsy if I'm not near "civilization". I like to be able to run to the store without it being a major event. I don't want to have to plan ahead to put gas in the car. I'd hate to have to make a long car trip to get to the airport to go on a plane trip. Sometimes we go camping in "the middle of nowhere" and by the end of the weekend I feel like the fiance in The Parent Trap -- "Get me out of this stinkin' fresh air!"

I really think I had the best of both worlds. Unfortunately, the farm is now a housing development, so I'll have to find places to take my daughter to give her the opportunity to play somewhere where you can't see your neighbors, and can scream as loud as you want just for fun, without bothering anyone. I'd love to have the city amenities AND a big safe place to roam alone.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *luckylady*
I grew up in a very small town and it was BORING as he!! as a teenager. Ever see those movies where kids sit in the back of a truck and drink beer and shoot street signs. Yep. Me.

BUT - I had a lot of fun as well - love the wide open spaces, etc.

I would like both for DD - open enough to run and cultured enough to be exposed, as well as opportunities to get into things (dance, music etc). Seattle rocks and is where I am trying to talk DH into moving.









Me too! The first part, I mean. Except you left out the cheap drugs and routine hazing rituals.









After getting around, I see that there are cities that suck BAD, and cities that are very NFL, very openminded, environmentally conscious - or trying - and very cool. Portland, Seattle, and NYC are three of my personal faves.

There are rural areas that are completely open-minded and liberal, most of which are in the Northeast (Mass, VT are where I'm familiar with). There are rural areas where if you vote Democrat or want to be a vegetarian, your neighbors will write you off forever and make fun of you (and your kids, if they are lucky enough to attend rural public school).

I can personally see rural for young children; but for goodness sake, get them out before they reach reproductive age, or help them get a job, or something. Because there is a whole lotta mischief to get into if you are bored and um...experimental.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

We always had dreamed about living in the country and we tried it for awhile. I nearly went nuts. I was never ever meant to spent day after day in the company of just my children with no adults to talk to but great scenery to look at. It was beautiful and we loved picking apples and berries and enjoy all the wildlife that wondered on to our property.

The local library was a joke, there wasn't a book store for miles and miles, and I really hated being so isolated. One day my DD asked me if she could take a pottery class. It would have been an hour and a half each way to get to a class. Summer was nice, but winter was very very boring. Nothing to do, no place to go, no one to talk to....

We now live in the burbs of a large city and we like it this way. My kids can be in what ever they want and I can drive them there in a few minutes (I didn't like telling my kids "no, it would be too far to drive"). They have a nice yard to play in and we can walk to a park with a playground. We visit museums, have access to a huge library, and go to the theatre. Different things work better for different people -- this works better for us.


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## aguacates (Sep 17, 2003)

I would have to agree with dharmamama that it is all a matter of personal preference. There is nothing inherently better about one over the other.

That said, I live very rurally in Maine. My town has less than 700 people. We live on a 175 acre farm, have a herd of 19 cattle, lots of chickens, big dogs, greenhouses, and we grow organic produce and fruit on 5 acres.
Since our livelihood is dependant on rural living, this is where we are now. I love things about it, like just having access to all that land, our animals, and being able to be organic farmers. Our closest town w/a real library and a food co-op is half an hour away. The coast is also half an hour away. The city(Portland,ME) is two hours away. I hate all the time in the car. I hate that we can't walk out of our front door and go anywhere. I hate that all the moms in our playgroup live in different little towns, so we all do a lot of driving in order to go, sometimes we have to drive 45 min since we change houses every wk. So, most of what I don't like has to do with all the time I have to spend in the car.

We think about living in a city when we need a break from farming. I lived in Seattle for awhile, and loved some things about it, but felt trapped a lot. Growing up I always lived in college towns, which I almost think is the best of both worlds. Lots of diversity because of the students, lots of cultural stuff because of the universities, being able to walk or use public transit or bike everywhere, but only needing to drive for five minutes to get out of the city limits to go hiking.








We are happy where we are, but I think we would be happy elsewhere too. Although if we did live in a city it would have to be one with great community gardens, because I do grow most of our food, and I love my gardens, I don't think I could happily downsize in that respect.


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## witchbaby (Apr 17, 2003)

i don't think you can say city or country is definitively better. it really depends on the family. i would go MAD if i lived in the country-- i lived in a smaller town when pregnant with my daughter and for her first two months and was miserable. i feel much better in the city. living near parks works well for us and my parents have a big yard for k to play in (our yard is not fenced). there are plenty of places to go and do things and meet people and we live near high-speed trains that can take us straight downtown in no time. we live two blocks from a natural market and there are several others in the city, plus there are farmer's markets all over the city and suburbs nearly every day of the week.
now, i know the way we live isn't right for everyone, which is awesome. i love that everyone lives a different way. one person may love living in the middle of nowhere raising their own food and playing in big fields. me, i need lots of action and people.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

The country is fine for little kids and old folks. But for teenagers, it is hell on earth. No wonder we all got drunk and sexed up on the weekends. No wonder so many of my peers "had to" get married in high school.

Yes, it is beautiful. It is simple. It is what it is. Don't go putting rose-colored glasses on it.

After growing up in the country, I raise my family in the city. There's always something to do here. We never lack for any event that is fun, educational or awe-inspiring. We do visit the quietness of Mother nature, but we live in the thick of other people.


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom*
The country is fine for little kids and old folks. But for teenagers, it is hell on earth. No wonder we all got drunk and sexed up on the weekends. No wonder so many of my peers "had to" get married in high school.

Unfortunately, this happens in the city and suburbs as well. Being a teenager in our society is tough.

I was a teenager in the country, too and it was isolating and often boring, but had lots to do with 4-H, riding horses and jobs on the farm or for my neighbors. Since everyone knew everyone (for generations back) it was really hard to get into trouble. All teenagers in the country don't get into trouble.

The city is more anonymous. There are street kids, teen pregnancy, drugs, alcohol there also.


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## ehcor (Jun 8, 2004)

q


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ehcor*
like not always locking the exterior doors when we come in the house

This made me laugh. I was raised in a no-locking-the-doors environment. Then I lived in Philadelphia for several years and got in the habit of locking the doors. When I moved back to Ohio and met my now-husband, he was not locking doors because he was raised in a tiny WV steel town where locking the doors was viewed as suspiscious and unfriendly, as though you have something to hide. We have had ongoing battles about locking the door. He hates coming home and not being able to get right in. I, on the other hand, lock the door now not because I am worried about our safety but because my son has, several times, opened to door and gone outside alone. I lock the screen door when that's all we have closed because the dog can open the screen door!

The other night I accidentally left our garage door open and my daughter's bike on the sidewalk. Everything was fine when I woke up and I'm so glad we live in such a friendly neighborhood ... right in the city!

Namaste!


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

dharmamama said:


> I was raised in a no-locking-the-doors environment. /QUOTE]
> 
> :LOL
> 
> I am LOL! I forgot about this. Not only did we not lock the doors - we left the keys in the car ignitions! We had Petro delivered to our farm because of the machinery, etc. - so I never really used a gas station until I went to college - we would fill up the vehicles at the tank in our farm yard. I was taught to drive when I was 11. My parents would send me in the car to pick up my own babysitter - she lived 3 miles north of our farm. Good times . . .


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## ehcor (Jun 8, 2004)

q


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TripMom*
My parents would send me in the car to pick up my own babysitter - she lived 3 miles north of our farm. Good times . . .

Your parents trusted you to drive but not to stay home by yourself??

:LOL


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## Willowrose (Jan 24, 2005)

I agree with dharmamama's statement

Quote:

I think each environment is what you make of it
We live in a suburban area. Neither big city nor rural farm. We have access to both. We eventually hope to go a bit more rural, but for now, the suburban life has its benefits. We have a very large yard and some great children in our neighborhood. We are very close to several of our neighbors and everyone looks out for one another. We are close to both DH's family and mine. Our friends are all nearby and our church is very close.
We live simply within our home and would do that no matter what type of community we lived in. Its what is inside our home that is what counts. It honestly doesn't matter if I live in the middle of nowhere or if I can look outside and see skyscrapers. We choose to buy our boys mostly toys that leave a lot of room for imagination. Wood toys, dress-up clothes, puppets, etc...
My family is my family no matter where we go. My boys spend long amounts of time outdoors most days. They love playing, climbing trees, catching bugs, just being boys. Other days, they love to visit the childrens museum or the playground.
We have had the opportunitiy to move to 2 very different locations....one very rural, one in the heart of the city. However, right now, we are content being here.


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmamama*
Your parents trusted you to drive but not to stay home by yourself??

:LOL

Isn't it hysterical??


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmamama*
I don't agree. I think each environment is what you make of it, and for every country paradise there is a rural hell and the same is true of the city. Neither city nor country is inherently better, it's all in what you prefer.

Namaste!


This is very true. I have family that moved to the country after being very active in the burbs. Once in the clean country air with horese to ride and a garden to tend; my cousing gained 300 pounds, my uncle gained 200 (and lost most of that), my aunt gained 200 pounds. I have a 400 pound cousin that lives in the clean fresh air with lots of roaming room.

We live in the city. I see the advantages and the disadvantages. We are going to have to snd our boys out of the city to school. We have "disorderly teens" that will not leave our house alone, eggs, ketchup, potatoes, stealing....

I want a garden, other than containers.

I LOVE city living though. I can't magine not living int he city. One day we won't. I'm going to enjoy it as much as I can.

I'm actually looking forward to leaving the city...but I'm sure gonna miss it.


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## vermonttaylors (May 17, 2005)

Oh my, the neverending questioon right? We are incredibly rural but are blessed with an active and involved parenting community with lots of AP parenting. I grew up in both the country and in Manhattan and other cities in Europe. My honest opinion is that there are wonderful benefits to both. My SIL and BIL both live in NYC with their families and there are times I envy them, and I KNOW they envy our situation of livingat the end of a town road and our kids being able to walk outside and be able to run for miles.

In my opinion (and you know what they say about opinions :LOL ) the best thing for kids is for the parents to be happy where they are. My BIL LOVES, LOVES, LOVES Brooklyn. He would never want to live anywhere else, but he does enjoy spending a lot of time in Vermont in the summer. I prefer living in the country, but I am also very happy in the city and would just make a different life for myself. My dh would go into decline in the city, so we have made a happy home for ourselves in the country.

Kids will thrive where their parents are happy and comfortable. I think, if you can manage it, spend as much time as possible in both settings. I think the most interesting people are the ones who are completely comfortable in both situations.

OK





















. Sorry for the babble, it's early still!

Cheers1


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

both ex and i were raised in the city. but i have always dreamt of the rural. seeing my dd's personality and likes and dislikes - the rural scene would suit her more.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I like aspects of city and rural life but since moving rural I really think my dd is doing much better in many ways. I think this is where she is happiest and will thrive based on her personality, not just dh's or mine. We are all happy here and were not unhappy about living in the city at the time.
Both dh and I grew up in the city and that has many of the same pitfalls for teenagers. Teenagers in the city get bored, do drugs, drink, have sex too.

We just got back from visiting my parents in a city for 3 1/2 days. It seems so cramped and loud there to me now. We had to watch dd more closely because of traffic and broken glass. We were soooo happy to get home. Today dd just ran around our huge yard like a bird let out of a cage.


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## jgale (Jan 21, 2003)

We weigh this one a LOT. Mostly I agree that kids will do best where their parents are happiest.

I've always been an urban girl. It bugs me when people say that the city is anonymous. I've lived in Manhattan and Philadelphia and in both places, my neighborhood felt like a small town. I know almost all of my neighbors. If we put my son in the local public school, his class will be full of kids he has known since they were infants together.

I also think that the "pace" and the sense of constantly rushing around that people talk about in cities is a choice. I almost never rush anywhere. Other people might spend a lot of money on fancy strollers and enrolling their kids in classes when they're 6 months old. I do know people who do that. But that doesn't mean I have to do those things, no matter where I live.

Sometimes (mostly in the summer when it is 110 degrees and the pavement is steaming) I think I would rather live in a rural area. I would really like to have a bigger garden. But I also HATE driving. I would hate to have to get in the car every day.

Slightly off topic:
Debra Baker said "I wouldn't live in our near-by city, Philadelphia because it has decayed, there's a lot of crime, the schools suck, and it's corrupt."

I just had to jump in and say that it must have been a while since you've visited Philly--that is definitely not a very accurate description--at least not of my neighborhood.

Jessi


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

Which part of Philly?

It just makes me sad to see beautiful old houses gone to ruin.

DB


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
We always had dreamed about living in the country and we tried it for awhile. I nearly went nuts. I was never ever meant to spent day after day in the company of just my children with no adults to talk to but great scenery to look at. It was beautiful and we loved picking apples and berries and enjoy all the wildlife that wondered on to our property.

The local library was a joke, there wasn't a book store for miles and miles, and I really hated being so isolated. One day my DD asked me if she could take a pottery class. It would have been an hour and a half each way to get to a class. Summer was nice, but winter was very very boring. Nothing to do, no place to go, no one to talk to....

We now live in the burbs of a large city and we like it this way. My kids can be in what ever they want and I can drive them there in a few minutes (I didn't like telling my kids "no, it would be too far to drive"). They have a nice yard to play in and we can walk to a park with a playground. We visit museums, have access to a huge library, and go to the theatre. Different things work better for different people -- this works better for us.









I'm so glad you posted this. We are in a semi-urban environment (just outside Cambridge, MA). I dream of having lots of land for my little ones to run about on, etc. But we are a short drive away from mountains, ocean, farmland, etc., and a short walk away to a great library, lots of different cultural events, the T, etc. So when I read your post, I realized we are all probably best off right where we are now, because if we really did move out into a completely rural setting, I'd go nuts.


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## jgale (Jan 21, 2003)

Debra--we're in West Philly fairly near the U of P. The neighborhood is in the middle of a tremendous revitalization. Jessi


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## OakBerry (May 24, 2005)

I think there is a happy medium.
I lived in the city when I was little, and small towns the remainder of my life.
I do like the city, with all it has to offer, but I don't want to live there.

I live in a very rural area, small town, woodsy and horsey, yet I am 10 minutes from a large mall, also another mall with any store you'd ever want, and a Starbucks, lol. They just put in a brand new library literally 5 minutes up the street. In the other direction, a "auto mile" strip with lots of businesses and tons of restaurants. I am also close to 3 major highways. I can go south and be at the seashore in 20 minutes. I can go north and be in the city in 45 minutes. Plus the commuter rail is 10 minutes from my house, and it goes right into the city.
It's sort of a pain to drive into the city with the traffic, but it's nice to know I can go there anytime and come back to my nice quiet house. It can get a little boring, but if I go to the library, playground, preschool, there are plenty of kids for ds to play with. I really like it!


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Quote:

I also think that the "pace" and the sense of constantly rushing around that people talk about in cities is a choice. I almost never rush anywhere. Other people might spend a lot of money on fancy strollers and enrolling their kids in classes when they're 6 months old. I do know people who do that. But that doesn't mean I have to do those things, no matter where I live.








A lot of the time I feel that we don't HAVE to rush because things are so close together that we can get there quickly. On weekdays, we don't have to rush to catch the bus (unless we're already late...) because there'll be another one in 5-10 minutes. I think choosing not to buy/do the fancy stuff is easier in the semi-anonymity of a city than in a place like where I grew up, because if you don't keep up with the Joneses people don't hold it against you as much, and also you have the option of keeping up with the Chungs or Lopezes or Sussmans instead.


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## UmmBnB (Mar 28, 2005)

Both dh and I were raised in tiny rural towns. My graduating class only had 40 people! We now live in a very urban neighborhood of a large city.

My mom still lives in my childhood home and we visit often. We often consider moving there but the thing that always stops the thinking cold is the lack of diversity, the conservative climate, racists, uber non-thinking blind patriotism, yadda yadda yadda.

My parents managed to raise my brother and I with open minds but she says it was very very hard. They had to constantly work to undo what we learned from our friends. Not that this can't happen in an urban environment but I think its easier to avoid - or at least to keep diverse groups of friends.

That said, we both romanticise what life would be like "back home". My hometown needs people, young families especially! But, there are no jobs in town so I'd definitely have to commute to another town. Dh could compete with the 50 other carpenters in the town of 1200. We could get a killer house for next to nothing. My mom has even offered to give us her house and she'd move to something smaller.

I don't know what the answer is for you, or for us for that matter. Its a really tough decision.


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## UmmBnB (Mar 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momto l&a*

Country raised kids dont seem to get in a much trouble as city kids who dont have as much to do as their country cousins.

IMO city living is about being entertained while country is entertaining yourself.

I like your statement about entertaining yourself. I do disagree with your first statement about country kids not getting into trouble :LOL With less to do, as rural kids, we were deep into sex and drugs and everything else you fear your kids getting involved with too early. Why? Because we didn't have anything else to do.


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## fire_lady (Aug 24, 2005)

We live in the city and we would to raise ds in rural. Unfortunately at this point we can't. The city has more opportunity for careers than in rural. We would love to raise our children in open spaces and much simple life.


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## Suzannah (Nov 19, 2001)

Chiming in...

I have lived in several cities as an adult (New York, Baltimore, Seattle), but grew up on the side of a mountain in the middle of the woods. I am currently in Marietta, GA.

1. Urban: a great thing IF you can afford to live in an area that is safe, and your city has decent public schools (or you have the spare 10-15K a year for private). Seattle is so overpriced ight now the closest we could get to living there would be in a suburb; this negates the "convenience" of walking out your door to all of the fabulous things that city has to offer. City areas seem to be either so gentrified as to be completely Gap-bland or so run-down that it is stressful (and un-safe) to live there.

2. Rural: we would love to own some horses, goats, etc and live out in the country, but I do worry about DD being lonely. I was very lonely as a child, and I had an older brother (DD is an only). I am a bit of a recluse myself, so the isolation sounds good to me, but I worry about DD.

I wish there was a place in-between; where I grew up was perfect, but it's too expensive now.


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## Belleweather (Nov 11, 2004)

I'm really struck by how many people are justifying their like of rural and semi-rural living based on the fact that they can drive into the city to use city resources whenever they want, and that's what makes living rural work for them. It's something DH and have thought about and continue to think about with regard to where we want to live when we're done with school, but with the looming oil crisis, I just can't feel anything but hypocritical chosing to live a lifestyle that basically requires a car and cheap fuel for me to enjoy it. It seems to me personally that any 'good' I'm doing myself or my DC by having land, growing our own food, etc. is totally outweighed by the fact that we'd be so gasoline-dependant for work and entertainment, not to mention necessities, depending on how rural we actually were.

When gas shot up to $3.29/gal, we were very proud that we can bike to work and classes, that groceries can be bought down the street and the farmer's market is a short walk away, and that everything that we need entertainment-wise is accessible either in the neighborhood or a short trip on public transit. At this point, it would be really hard for me to justify to myself living any other way.


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## AmyAngel (Dec 3, 2004)

Living rurally or in the suburbs does require a car, pretty much. But, not needing a car pretty much depends on which city you are in. Charlotte, NC is one of the biggest cities between DC and Atlanta, yet almost everyone that can afford even a junky one has a car.

Why? Partly culture, I think, it's just something you do.

Also there are very few places to live downtown, it is almost exclusively businesses. (They are building more condos now, and preliminary plans are in for a residential high-rise, apparently, but there are almost no single-family homes left. The city is very much trying to bring people back to downtown, which traditionally has been called "uptown" here.) The residences that ARE available within walking distance of anywhere are very, very expensive. Anywhere slightly out of town and you can get a home for very cheap, but it is in a very, very run-down depressed area. I now work "in downtown" near to our football stadium, but on the "wrong side of the highway". The other side is nice highrise office buildings from varius eras, our side of the highway is much more rundown, with older one-story buildings that look kind of run-down, though the football parking income is allowing some improvement now. It's amazing what a difference that 50 feet or so makes.

Our public transit system is all buses (though we do have one trolley and are getting light rail), and seems quite scary - both to other drivers (I've almost gotten bulldozed by buses a couple times) and to potential riders (the bus hub is the city's biggest gang hangout, at the moment, according to the local news). Ridership IS up a lot since gas prices have risen.

Their are pluses and minuses everywhere. What works for one family doesn't for another.

And I'm off to check the bus schedules, to see if I could take that to work. I'd still have to drive to the park n' ride though, because there's not a bus stop within walking distance of my house. I only live 15 minutes by car from my work.


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Belleweather*
I'm really struck by how many people are justifying their like of rural and semi-rural living based on the fact that they can drive into the city to use city resources whenever they want, and that's what makes living rural work for them.

Living in many suburbs/city most people need a car, too. I can bike some here and do, but can't get to many places without a car. The city where I live is jammed with cars and traffic. People are burning fuel sitting on the freeway not moving.

The car issue is pervasive across rural, urban, suburban- unfortunately.


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## Altair (May 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaMonica*
Living in many suburbs/city most people need a car, too. I can bike some here and do, but can't get to many places without a car. The city where I live is jammed with cars and traffic. People are burning fuel sitting on the freeway not moving.

The car issue is pervasive across rural, urban, suburban- unfortunately.


There are plenty of cities that are very easy to be car free. I live in NYC, it's super easy to use public transportation only (and by that I mean no taxis or car services either).

_____

As for the OP's question, I grew up in an area that started rural and became suburbs as we lived there. I love rural areas, but I could NEVER live in one full time. I need to live in NYC or another progressive city.

The biggest reason is diversity. I can't live where we're all the same color, or all from a few different countries, or all in the same income bracket. (yes, i know that there are plenty of areas that would fit these needs). I love that in my apartment building, there are families (1st generation immigrants) from egypt, poland, italy, palestine, lebanon, west africa, etc. I love living in a city with immigrants from over 100 countries. There's so much to learn about the world just by talking to people from all over. The story of how my Palestinian neighbors got here always makes me cry.

After diversity, I need to be here for public transportation, public libraries, museums, and just plain city life. I love walking down the block to get coffee and knowing everyone I see. I love being around people and having their problems shoved right up in my face-- if they weren't I don't think I would be as passionate about making changes in the world.

I hated growing up where who I was wasn't acceptable. Yuck. I need to live somewhere where differences are accepted.

And.... now that I live in Brooklyn, I kind of think of it as rural life. :LOL
Going from Manhattan to Brooklyn is sorta like moving to the country. :LOL

Another reason I like the city is environmental-- cities use less energy per person and create less pollution per person b/c of their density. It usues less energy to heat an apartment or townhouse smack next to another one b/c the buildings heat up and share heat. A house all by itself in the middle of nowhere loses its heat to its surroundings. Suburbs/exurbs eat up more and more natural environments as they spread. I like the idea of keeping people close, and leaving other areas natural.

disclaimer: I'm clearly only talking about myself here. I don't think everyone should live in the city.


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## TakeItEasyMama (Sep 16, 2005)

While we lived in the city, church was close, work was close, entertainment venues were close along with the farmer's market, etc.

We moved out to a 6acre mini farm. Husband continued to commute. Terrible. We never got to see him. As if I could handle the chickens, horses, giant yard and so forth with a baby by myself.

The neighbors were fabulous, we made our own entertainment and were still close to alot of things.

BUT, unless everyone gets to participate in the upkeep and fun of the rural life, it can be sOO hard.

Right now were in a smaller town. Very corporate, right wing and limited in access to resources other than WalMart. I miss my farmer's market so much I could cry. This job keeps hubby way to busy and tired as well.

For us it seems to be all together somewhere.....but together is key.


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## OakBerry (May 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Belleweather*
I'm really struck by how many people are justifying their like of rural and semi-rural living based on the fact that they can drive into the city to use city resources whenever they want, and that's what makes living rural work for them. It's something DH and have thought about and continue to think about with regard to where we want to live when we're done with school, but with the looming oil crisis, I just can't feel anything but hypocritical chosing to live a lifestyle that basically requires a car and cheap fuel for me to enjoy it. It seems to me personally that any 'good' I'm doing myself or my DC by having land, growing our own food, etc. is totally outweighed by the fact that we'd be so gasoline-dependant for work and entertainment, not to mention necessities, depending on how rural we actually were.

When gas shot up to $3.29/gal, we were very proud that we can bike to work and classes, that groceries can be bought down the street and the farmer's market is a short walk away, and that everything that we need entertainment-wise is accessible either in the neighborhood or a short trip on public transit. At this point, it would be really hard for me to justify to myself living any other way.

One of the biggest reasons we live where we do is cost. To live in or near the city it costs alot of $. We have a decent sized home (3 bedroom) with a decent amount of property. For the same price in the city, we would be in a tiny house on a postage stamp lot, or in a tiny apartment. In my rural area, you need a vehicle to get around. I do enjoy the city, but neither dh nor I work there, so we only go in a few times a year for enjoyment purposes. We do have the train that goes in and we use it when we can. But sometimes we drive in. I go in for medical reasons and I am usally feeling crappy when I leave, so having dh drive me in is much better than taking 3 trains to get home. I also have knee problems, so biking and long distance walking are out of the question right now.
What works for some doesn't work for all.


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## Belleweather (Nov 11, 2004)

I'm sorry, you all. I didn't mean to imply that we never drive at all, or that we don't own a car, because we do. Actually, we own two. And we drive them. But by chosing to live in a urban environment, we have the ability to chose NOT to drive places and we try as much as possible to excercise that choice. And since I really forsee driving getting more and more expensive and actually increasingly impossible in the next 5-10 years because it *is* a non-renewable resource, and we in the US are paying a hugely subsidized price for it. I think it's something that's important to consider when deciding between living rurally and being dependant on your car to deal with basic necessities (getting to work, buying food) or living in a more urban setting and being able to live without it if you have to, I think that's a really important thing to think about. That was all I was trying to say, and I appologize if anyone felt attacked by my words.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

This thread has given some interesting things for individual families to think about when considering life in a rural area vs. life in a city.
I think a lot of issues that have been brought up are really dependant on the region and your family's lifestyle choices.

Life in some cities can also be non-diverse. When I grew up in a city people in my neighborhood/school were pretty much the same race and same basic religion (Christians). That is kind of what it is like in this region. So rural or city life can be similar there from my pov. Our family is more diverse in religion and ethnicity these days so I think dd already has a pretty natural exposure to people who look and believe differently no matter where we live.

Driving and gas usage will be an issue in city and rural areas. You will have to choose how to handle it most responsibly.
Cities do have a public transportation option and you might be closer to your job, stores, etc. You might also spend as much time in the car if your job is not close, have a tons of errands every day, and do not use other means of transport.
In our rural lifestyle we are choosing to stay closer to home more and consolidate our outings into fewer trips. We could do that in the city too. We are not really driving more than when we lived in the city. Dh has actually cut about an hour off his time spent commuting each week. When we drive 45 minutes to get to the larger city (maybe twice a month) we are not just going there to get milk and then turn around and come home. We spend most of the day there. We do not spend our time in the car much after we get there as we park the car and walk between places we want to go.
I think city or rural you can spend less time in a car by the choices you make.

The environment is a concern wherever you live. You can live environmentally responsible in city or rural... or not.
The city we used to live in most houses were not touching. My parents live there and we have similar weather and they've already run their heat while we have not. Our house here does stand alone but seems very well insulated. Not a rural vs. city issue but a better insulated house issue and possibly more of a willingness to just-put-on-a-sweater issue.

I guess my final thought on this subject is that you can move. Sometimes you have to try it out before you really know what is the best fit for your family. Sometimes you can have both worlds for your kids.
When dd was born we lived in the city. We moved to a small town area when dd was 9 months old but moved back to the city for job reasons when dd was 2. We lived in the city for 3 more years and are renting a house in a rural area now. Dh likes his job and we like our house but we also know that we will move again at some point. By the time dd is a teenager we might live closer to a city or in a city again somewhere... or maybe we'll stay rural.


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