# Anyone else NOT happy with cosleeping?



## LylasMom (Aug 5, 2003)

My dd is 8 months old, and we have coslept for most of her life. I do enjoy cuddling with her, and knowing that she feels secure next to me. However, I have tried everything (cosleeper, bed rail, DH out of the bed, floor in her room, NCSS tips) and I cannot sleep with her attached to my breast without being in major physical pain (backache and joint pain). If I had a baby who REALLY slept next to me, I wouldn't mind cosleeping, however I don't get a good nights rest. Is there anyone else out there that doesn't enjoy cosleeping? Cosleepign did save me at the beginning, but it just seems to be getting worse now.


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## treelover (Jan 22, 2004)

i'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet, but i am having trouble. we've co-slept with our ds (4 months old now) from the beginning and love the idea....but it doesn't seem to be working great for us either. ds wakes up every 1/2 hour to an hour wanting to nurse...nurses for 2 minutes and then falls back to sleep....meanwhile, i barely sleep....am bothered by both frequent waking and contorting my body to nurse him on my side. we've tried distancing myself from ds so that he can't smell my milk...doesn't work, and putting him on the far side of dh...doesn't work either. i just ordered ncss and am hoping i can find something useful in there. we also have trouble with ds not sleeping at all unless i am sleeping with him....this means napping with him during the day and going to bed with him so early in the night. don't know what to do!


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## Achelois72 (Aug 16, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by LylasMom_
*Is there anyone else out there that doesn't enjoy cosleeping? Cosleepign did save me at the beginning, but it just seems to be getting worse now.*
Me! Me!

Cosleeping was a wonderful thing during those first few months but now it is complete torture. He can't sleep unless I'm right there--for naps and nighttime. He wakes up every 1/2 an hour to an hour and wants to nurse ALL night long. And for the past week, he's been awake from around 1am until 6am!

I feel like I lay in bed all day. I have horrible back and hip pain. My entire right side aches and aches and aches so much I can barely handle it. My left arm is always hurting and sore because I have to have it in such an awkward position to nurse. And before DS falls asleep he tries to pick and pull at the skin on my breasts and stomach. Oh, and he is constantly digging his little feet (oh, he has such CUTE feet) into me, over and over again. And despite being in bed all the time, I get barely any sleep.

I just starting reading the NCSS and she has several ideas that I think could help Lucas sleep better. BUT, I don't know how to stop this awake in the middle of the night thing. How do I fix his schedule? How do I reset his sleeping without waking up an exhausted baby? He has SO many sleep issues, I don't know where to start.

So, needless to say: no, I'm not enjoying cosleeping at all right now. But I don't think him being in a crib would help. We have his crib in a sidecar position, but he freaked out when Daddy wasn't nearby. I don't know. Ugh.























Susan


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## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

Me Me Me

So far it's the best thing for us, but like the others, dd is a very frequent night waker, so I at most sleep an hour at a time, that and if she isn't right up against me, she wakes up. Today my jaw, neck, shoulder, spine and hip hurt. We have the NCSS and it (along with everything else) and it doesn't seem to help. I'm afraid to transition her to a crib. What if she keeps waking up 7-10 times a night? At least this way I don't have to get out of bed. Plus I worry that if she crys ds will wake up and then what.


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## delighted.mama (Jan 29, 2003)

Around 8 or 9 months was when co-sleeping wasn't too much fun anymore for me either. My dd is older and is now in her own room, for some part of the night anyway, but the all night nursing was driving me nuts when she was a baby. Per the NCSS book, I started limiting some of the night nursings and giving her extra time during the day. Took about 2 weeks for dd. She cried, but in my arms, for the first couple of nights. We still nursed, but not every 1/2 - 1 hour. Around 18 months, I couldn't handle the night nursing any longer, so we gradually cut it out until she doesn't nurse any more at night. She's content with just holding the milk supply!







To answer your question, co-sleeping isn't always easy and as the baby's needs change, so do yours. What you put up with or did at 2-3 months, isn't what works at 8-9 months or even later, as they move into toddlerhood. Don't be afraid to modify the situation. That's better in the long run than getting completely sleep deprived and resentful.


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## Suzetta (Dec 21, 2003)

I strongly feel that if you are not getting a comfortable night's sleep, you should reconsider your plan. I have the same issues with waking up stiff if I sleep wrong. Night time is for sleeping and renewing your body's energy levels as well as your spirit.

In our house, we have gone through lots of changes, as we get to know dd's needs and try to find a workable solution to ours.

At first, we thought she would be in her own crib, but she had other ideas. She is not a fussy daytime baby at all...but as soon as I put her in the crib, she panicked and fussed.

So, we decided on a plan where she would sleep the first half of the night in her crib, which is right by my bed, and join me at about 4 or 5 am.

That worked great, until I was in a position where I had to wean her from the breast. She got very clingy, and we both slept together all night together.

Now, we have taken one side of the crib off, attached it to my bed, and she sleeps in that for some of the night, and in my bed cuddling for some of the night. I had to do this, because she is starting to roll and crawl, and I needed a safe place to put her when she was up to her antics and I was too tired to deal with her.

As far as night nursing goes, I really believe you need to set a limit on that, if it is causing you unhappiness. Nursing should be a mutually satisfying event. After four or five months, I think that they are old enough to adjust their day time eating in order to allow for a night time stretch of at least 5 hours. Before completely weaning dd from the breast, I had her on a plan where she did not nurse from 11-5. I did it by offering her a bottle when she woke. Of course, she didn't want the bottle, so went back to sleep. Eventually she just started sleeping through. If she started crying, however, I would nurse her, pulling her off when she slowed down to a flutter. Now that she is bottle fed, I still have to feed her sometimes once during the night, but she sleeps the first 5-7 hours without eating.

My point is that you really must take charge of the situation, and find a workable plan. Following your child's cues does not necessarily mean you should become a slave to her every whim and desire.


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## Suzetta (Dec 21, 2003)

I would like to add that I never nursed her while laying down. While it sounds initially easier, I think in the long run it becomes a problematic habit.


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## StarMama (Jun 25, 2002)

Yup me too! Its not the co-sleeping that's a problem. I love sleeping with him next to me. Heck its not even the nursing every 2 hours that's a problem! Its the fact that after he pops off half the time I can't even roll onto my back, or adjust myself on my side without waking him up again! And if I don't want to sleep with him the maximum he will sleep solo is 45 minutes if I'm VERY lucky. So naps are usually in my lap, and I'm lucky if some very little noise doesn't wake him after 20 minutes.

I have carpal tunnel and other back and neck "issues" (as my chiropractor states







) and how funky my arm has to be it falls asleep and its very painful.

I borrowed the NCSS and need to read it. I hope it helps. I just wish he'd sleep more soundly!


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## Slackermom (Jul 23, 2003)

Co-sleeping saved my sanity for the first three months. After the first two days of putting DD in her crib, only to have her ready to BF again 1/2 hour later, I took her to bed with me and we were both happy as pigs in muck. Lately, however, I'm not as happy. For one thing, my back (which was injured to begin with) is killing me from contorting into odd positions for feeding on my side (I also get sore from BF in "sitting-up" positions...it's just my wonky back). Still, I've stuck with it and DD would nap and sleep in bed with us (she'd sleep without us being there, which was nice).

Last week, I decided to move her to the crib for naps. I was getting paranoid about our cats getting a little too friendly with her during naps. Much to my surprise, she likes it. She sleeps like I do -- all sprawled out, arms and legs every which way -- and I think she actually likes having the space all to herself. She's never once cried when I put her in her crib. She coos and smiles, then sucks her thumb and goes to sleep. I'm amazed, and a little sad. I was hoping she'd miss me more than that!









She still sleeps with me at night, but I feel like I'm not getting much sleep. I'm not sure she is, either. She seems really restless and neither of us seems to be sleeping well. I'm debating trying her in the crib at night, but it makes me sad to stop co-sleeping at 4 months.


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## fireflies~for~me (Jun 24, 2003)

We have graduated to the next step...DS is 10 months by the way...for the last month or two, we start him off in his crib and he wakes every few hours to nurse, but I just go in, rock and nurse him and he is back asleep within 5 minutes or so.

Depending on when I go to bed at night, he stays in his crib until whenever he cries AFTER I am asleep...then I go get him, or DH goes to bring him to me and we cosleep the rest of the night...sometimes DH is in the bed with us, sometimes one of us is on the futon!


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## Tuesday (Mar 3, 2003)

ohmygoodness, thank you for this thread - I'm very much in tune with the rest of your situations .... I have an 8 month old and on an "ideal" night, he wakes up every 3 hours to nurse but most of the time it's every 25 or 30 minutes or 60 minutes and I just am so sick of being chronically tired.

Suzetta, I liked your suggestion about offering a bottle at night. Can I ask a silly question - what do you put in the bottle? Water? Formula? Just curious ? THANKS!!


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## sarasprings (Mar 30, 2003)

We've lived through some pretty terrible nights, too. Or shall I say weeks and months. Maybe I should add that we still are. DS has always been a restless sleeper for nights and naps. Many times I didn't think I would make it another night.

I finally resigned myself to getting into bed and reading for his naps (eventhough it was tough to get over doing so little housework -- dh is great about not expecting anything to be done -- it was nice down time). At night, I've had every type of back, arm, and shoulder pain from spending hours in uncomfortable positions because DS would wake up as soon as I moved. We tried moving DS to a crib, but it wasn't for him. He loves sleeping with us.

At this point, DS is 21 months, I think I'm able to see the benefits (as well as the downside of so little sleep for 21 months). He is so much happier during the day than he used to be and has become relatively easy-going (he's still passionate about things, of course) and confident. I don't know how he's able to be so happy each day considering how little sleep he gets.

Obviously at this point you realize that I have no help to offer, except that while it may last a while, you may get used to the lack of sleep and there should be periods when it is easier. For my reluctant and high needs sleeper, I think it has been very, very important for him to remain with us in bed.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

ds is 23 mo and I haven't slept through the night since November 2001 (while pregnant)!!! Needless to say I am longing for a full night's sleep. I never dreamed that he would be in our bed this long. I figured we'd keep him in our bed until he "slept thru the night" but found that sleeping through the night did not necessarily mean sleeping without interruption. He has been sleeping all night long since about 3 or 4 months old, but he has been waking frequently his entire life. UGH!!!

But I have to tell you, mommies, that it has been getting better at a snail's pace over the last 23 months. I have experienced everything you have all described, and more. I read NCSS and found that I was already doing many of the things she was suggesting, but to no avail. At any rate, ds has gone from always sleeping in my lap and never going near a crib, to napping alone in his sidecar (the crib attached to our bed) for two hours. It has been a long, arduous process, but totally worth it. I believe that he is the confident happy funny guy he is today bc we have tried to meet all of his needs day and night.

I have tried to cut back on night feedings, but when he screamed for many minutes in my arms, I decided that it was more important to soothe with nursing than force him to wait. After a while, I tried again - when he was 18 mo, I started talking to him about not nursing when the sun is down. He seemed to agree to the plan to wait for the sun to rise, but at night it was too hard. It's still hard, even now, but he is beginning to understand and cooperate in the middle of the night when I tell him that "mommy can't sleep when you're nursing, please say nite nite to nursies" or "nursies have to make more milk for later," etc. He will detach and hold nursy with his hand for a minute and then I can roll away.

Speaking of rolling away - this was a slow battle, too, bc of course he would wake up if I moved an inch. I had to take it real slow and put my hand on his chest while trying to detach, and often I would have to relatch a couple of times before I could completely detach, and then wait a minute with my hand on his chest until I would very very slowly lift it away and then slowly slowly roll away. Patience has been the key! Waiting for him to be in the deepest sleep is the way to go.

As for pains - I have so many pillows - two to support my back, one for between my knees, two to lean on when sitting up, a flat one to put under baby to elevate him. I always make sure that I am in the most comfortable position when I start to nurse him, in case I become trapped and sleep in that position for a while.

What has saved me through all of this is that I can lie down and sleep (yeah, yeah, an hour here, two hours there) and I have an excuse to rest during naptime, too. I think the period where baby transitions from just lying there to learning how to crawl, pull up, etc. is very hard bc he is such an active, distracted sleeper, and I think this is the period that most of you are in right now. But in time the novelty of learning how to be mobile wears off and sleep starts to improve (that is, until teething kicks in; we just got through all of the two year molars, and ds went from sleeping 3 hr stretches to waking every hour - he is finally getting back to 2 hr stretches).

My last bit of two cents: my cousin (sahm, 6 children) once told me to turn off my clock and stop thinking about the night wakings. Is it really such a big deal??? Well, to tell you the truth, I often wonder if she has ever experienced what we are all describing here in this thread, but on the other hand, I tried her advice, and when I stopped obsessing about it, it did get a little easier.

Hope this is a little bit helpful!







Hugs to you all!

ETA: I've heard great success stories about using daily baby massage and/or periodic chripractic care to improve a baby's sleep.


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

i feel your pain, literally!

it was awesome sleeping with my dd until she was around 10 mos. old. instead of taking that opportunity to move her into her own bed, i tried to tough it out and i feel like it has made me irritable and impatient with her. now we are still nursing to sleep at 19 mos., but i move her into a crib next to our bed when she falls asleep. i have yet to conquer nightweaning, which would make things much better. things are getting easier for us slowly but surely!

if you think it will make you a better mama by sleeping peacefully and separately, then by all means, do so!


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## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

My dd is 15 months old and neither of us gets a good night sleep when she sleeps with me. She toss and turns and I am always worried she will fall out of bed. Yes, I do have a guardrail, but still worries me. Usually I try to put her back in her own bed, which is in my room, when I wake up at some point during the night.


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## janhunt (Mar 3, 2002)

This question comes up fairly often in my counseling - yet many of these moms thought they were alone in facing these challenges!

I've put a number of suggestions in this recent article:

"When Will My Baby Soothe Himself to Sleep?"

I was recently asked by a new mother when her newborn would learn to soothe himself to sleep. This is a common question in our culture, but it would have been unthinkable until relatively recently in human history. For thousands of generations, babies were carried all day until they could crawl and all children slept next to their parents and siblings at night; their cries received a quick response, and their culture recognized their needs as natural and normal. Mothers also had far more support from their friends and relatives (The Continuum Concept by Jean Liedloff and Our Babies, Ourselves: How Biology and Culture Shape the Way We Parent by Meredith F. Small have inspiring descriptions of more natural life styles).

Today, mothers are often separated from their own parents and siblings, and have fewer people to turn to when they feel tired, ill, or simply in need of a break from child tending. Because of this, a baby's legitimate needs like being carried, having cries quickly attended to, and being nursed to sleep can feel emotionally and physically overwhelming in our stressful world; it is only natural that tired mothers wonder how to convince the baby to meet their needs. To the baby, of course, nothing has changed - his needs are the same as for all the Stone Age babies whose needs for constant touching and reassurance were more easily met. The problem is that modern mothers, in all their new isolation, are still having Stone Age babies. "Mother's helpers", support groups like the La Leche League, and parenting counseling can all help to reduce isolation.

While a baby's natural needs cannot be forcibly changed without traumatic effect, there are some things parents can try to make life easier, that will help the baby with the transition from waking to sleeping. Breastfeeding mothers should avoid foods and other substances that enhance wakefulness, such as coffee, caffeinated tea, colas, chocolate, certain herbs, and other stimulants, as babies are more sensitive to caffeine than are adults. Instead, nursing mothers can substitute a relaxing substance that is safe for breastfeeding, such as chamomile tea1.

Establishing a bedtime ritual, such as a warm bath followed by book reading (Goodnight Moon is relaxing, as the pictures become gradually darker); soft music or singing, or a gentle massage can also be very soothing. Parents should try as much as possible to avoid stressful situations in the evening. Young children are the "emotional barometers" in the family, and can react to stress and excitement even if they are too young to understand the causes of this. Parents should also avoid loud noises and bright lights, especially close to bedtime. A dimmer switch can be helpful in this transition - electric lights, with their sudden shift from brightness to darkness are a new stimulus for a Stone Age baby! Room-darkening window shades can help block out morning sunlight. In a recent study, jasmine scent sprayed on bedding was found to help subjects fall asleep more quickly and to sleep more soundly. "Sleep talking" (talking softly to a sleeping child)2 is another helpful approach, during which a parent can ask the baby or child for help, provide explanations of stressful situations, apologize when needed, or simply express love to the child.

Finally, remember the Motherhood Mantra. "This too shall pass," even when it feels like nothing will ever change. One day every parent will look back on this period with a sweet longing and an amazement that it went by so quickly! These early years are an opportunity to enjoy a baby's love in all its purity.

Jan Hunt
[email protected]


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## Suzetta (Dec 21, 2003)

Tuesday: At first I put EBM in the bottle, but got tired of wasting it, so then I just used water. It didn't take her long to just start sleeping through, once she realized she wasn't going to nurse.


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## rainsmom (Dec 5, 2001)

Now that dd is 3, weaned and mostly sleeping thru the night BUT still in our bed/sidecar attached to bed......in hindsight I wish I would have gotten her out around 1 yr or a little before. Dh and I are just starting to get some sleep, but most nights she is still rolling over into our bed. I know, this will pass, but it will be awhile STILL before she sleeps in her room/bed. WHen she DOES sleep in the sidecar crib, she sleeps MUCH more soundly. Not much I can do now, but if I had to do it over, Id have moved her out 2 years ago!

Though I think she got alot of benefits from EBF AND co sleeping, I think its better for all 3 of us to sleep more soundly.....which she does when she is not on top of us and vise versa.

We also have a 3000 dollar mattress that is extremely comfortable. It wasnt the mattress that was a factor for us, but the constant wakings and getting kicked.


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## oliviagoddess (Jan 10, 2003)

When was the last time you bought a mattress? If your mattress is more than 10 years old, you are sleeping in pain. It amazes me how people can sleep on an old piece of junk with springs sticking up and the sides rolling and expect a good night's sleep.







:

The reason you are annoyed by nursing all night long is because you CAN'T TOSS AND TURN!!! Tossing and turning is what happens when your body gets stiff from sleeping on a piece of crap.

If you can't afford something like the TempurPedic (instead of metal coils, it uses memory foam that adjusts to your body) Bed or a Sleep Number (instead of metal coils, individual air chambers gently cushion and contour to your entire body that you dial up or down for firmness) Bed, then at least go out and buy a new mattress on sale! Try the sucker out, don't just sit on the edge. Lay down, nurse and have your partner roll next to you to see if the motion is transmitted.

I was at my wit's end with pain and I realied that our mattress was 20 years old. We got a new one (the Tempurpedic - quite pricey - $3,000 - but soooo worth it) and the first night sleeping on it I actually woke up and thought "damn, this thing is so comfortable I could spit".









We co-sleep with a 3 year old and she still nusres 2 - 3 times a night. Since we've had the new mattress, everyone is getting much better sleep. We sleep on a queen, but I would have loved a king if we had the room (and we have really nice solid walnut furniture). She sleeps through the night and dosn't toss and turn at all and now with the new mattress, neither does my husband (the real reason I was being jolted awake).

TempurPedic's Site www.tempurpedic.com/ 20 year warranty (twice as long as a regular mattress (intended to last only 10 years)
Select Comfort's Sleep Number Bed www.selectcomfort.com/sleepNumberBed/ 20 year warranty

Since nursing happens on your side, here's a guide for buying a mattress:
(from abed.com www.abed.com/sleepcenter/buying.html)

The Correct Mattress for Side Sleepers:
Don't be fooled by all those promotions which state that firm mattresses are necessary for good support. Firm mattresses work better for back sleepers than they do for side sleepers. This does not imply that a soft mattress will be more beneficial. A mattress that gives too much or bends inwardly will not be supportive enough for the spine. However, back sleepers have a larger area to lay on than side sleepers, which translates to less weight per square inch of the body. Therefore a mattress that is too firm will put too much pressure on the very sensitive areas of the hip and shoulder, thereby causing irritation to those regions over time.

The best kind of mattress for side sleepers will have a supportive density, but also have enough give to conform to the bumps and curves of the body, with a softer overlay to provide more comfort for the muscles and joints. When laying on your side, always put a pillow or orthopedic leg spacer between your knees to prevent rotation of the pelvis and spine (click here to see our foam knee pillow). This measure will combine to keep your spine in a more correct alignment while sleeping. A leg spacer helps prevent torque on the spine from pelvic rotation when you are on your side, while moving with your body if you roll on your back.

The Correct Mattress for All Sleepers:
A mattress that properly supports the body should be solid enough to not cave inward with body pressure and yet have enough give to allow contouring of the body. This is especially important with side sleepers, as a lot of pressure is placed on the shoulders and hips. While back sleepers can get away with a more firm mattress, the contouring of the body that occurs with a mattress that gives with pressure applied will hold the body in a more proper position for a comfortable sleep. Sleeping on your stomach can be irritating to your neck and back due to the complete rotation of the neck to one side while in this position. While it is not recommended that you sleep on your stomach, if you still move around to all positions, or if you have a bed mate which sleeps in a different position than you, keep the following in mind: Pick a mattress that is soft enough on the surface to substitute for the lack of a pillow when on your stomach, as using a pillow in this position will only push the neck further to a rotated and backward extended position. This compression can be a source of irritation to the joints and soft tissue of the spine.

The best kind of mattress for all position sleepers will have a supportive density, but also have enough give to conform to the bumps and curves of the body, with a softer overlay to substitute for the lack of a pillow and provide more comfort for the muscles and joints. When laying on your stomach, always put a pillow to wedge under one side of the pelvis and same side leg, thereby limiting the amount of rotation of the upper spine. Back sleepers can place a pillow under their legs to reduce traction on the spine (click here to see our foam bed wedge). When laying on your side, always put a pillow or orthopedic leg spacer between your knees to prevent rotation of the pelvis and spine. We recommend a leg spacer (click here to see our foam knee pillow), as it helps prevent torque on the spine from pelvic rotation when you are on your side, while moving with your body if you roll on your back. This measure will combine to keep your spine in a more correct alignment while sleeping. While back sleeping is still the most supportive position for the spine, and stomach sleeping will still have the potential to irritate the muscles and joints, these tips should combine to keep your spine in a more correct alignment while sleeping.

About.com before you buy a mattress interiordec.about.com/cs/bedsindex/bb/aabyb1001bbed.htm


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## Mama Jenni (Feb 24, 2004)

ok, fellow mamas.... let us jump into the land of the buddha for a second... i know as well as any mama how challenging it can be to contort your body in all different positions to "night nurse".... i night-nursed my now 3.5 year old for 2.5 years and now have a 3 week old I plan on doing the same with.... here is my advice. Think of how short of a time span of night nursing you are dealing with, then compare that time to your whole life... seems like a pretty small sacrafice to make to cuddle your lil' sweeties while they are small and really need us....
I say think like a buddha and keep on nursing those buddha babies... they are lucky to have strong mamas like us.
oh yeah, make sure you get yourself a monthly massage and weekly visit to a chiropractor (preventative healthcare)


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## janhunt (Mar 3, 2002)

I want to respond to the recommendation for a Tempurpedic mattress. I agree that mattresses can be a factor, but a new one, especially an allergenic one like an organic cotton futon, should give the same kind of relief without the expense. And using futons on the floor instead of mattresses on a frame, can solve many other problems, such as restless sleepers, family members who need more room, families with several children in a family bed, parents who worry about a baby falling out of bed etc. Most families in the world sleep on the floor, and there are many benefits to that.


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## Allie's Momma (Feb 24, 2004)

I really believe in the whole co-sleeping idea and all of the benefits but half the time I am so tired from being repeatedly woken up, that I am practically a zombie! Co-sleeping worked really well for the first six to eight months but since teething started, it has been very tough. My 11 month old is a sweety during the day but at night she pulls my hair, constantly demands to nurse, and never sleeps for very long. My maternity leave ends soon (I had 13 months off.) and I am really worried that I won't be able to function at work.

I have been reading the postings for this topic and I think that I am going to check out the NCSS book for tips and see if some of them help.


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## Ben's mom (Dec 26, 2001)

I absolutely "hear" you. Our "little" guy is 11 mos. and is my second. We slept with our 1st for over a year, because he slept. When we try with our second he tosses, turns, punches and just doesn't seem that happy to be in bed with us. If he wakes @ night (usually twice) I nurse him and we return him to his crib where he happily sleeps till morn and so do we. It is comforting that I have an older child in the room with him. Good luck.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Jan Hunt, so great to see you here at MDC! I am familiar with your work and have great respect for you!


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## Cirila (Feb 24, 2004)

My daughter is almost 3 yo and we're still cosleeping and nursing most of the night. It has been very hard and I went through everything that you're going through right now. It's still a little hard, especially if I'm not feeling well and just want to have the night alone, but I also LOVE sleeping with her next to me and if she wasn't there now, i probably wouldn't be able to sleep either.

She is so sweet and loving and I would like to think that my sacrifice has contributed to her sweetness. Everyone who knows us comments on her personality and wonders if it's because of us co-sleeping and still nursing. There's no way of knowing...

What has helped me to be able to sleep is that we have two beds next to each other in our bedroom; my daughter and I sleep on one and my husband and our new baby(he's going to be adopted and probably won't be able to nurse) will sleep in the other. Also, after dealing with a lot of back, neck, arm and shoulder pain, I started to sleep on my back. My daughters puts her head on my shoulder/arm and nurses that way, and I'm comfortable enough to sleep. Of course there's a lot of pinching that goes along with it that drives me nuts sometimes.

However, there are many nights that I wish she was sleeping in her own bed like everyone else that I know.

Good luck to you is whatever approach you decide to take.


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## Missy P (Feb 24, 2004)

There's a really great book that might help. It's called The No Cry Sleep Solution. I think the author is Elizabeth Pantley. It has helped us tremendously.
My son in 19 mo and now only wakes once to brestfeed, ususally just for a few minutes. This is down from 5 0r more times a night. We have the crib in the sidecar position, and he just rolls away when he's ready to go back to sleep. I am a different mommy when I get my sleep!

MP


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## chirobaby02 (Feb 24, 2004)

I have a 20 month old, that has been co-sleeping with us since day one. We have mixed feelings about it. Most of the time we have co-slept, we have loved it. But recently, dd has been waking up quite a bit to nurse, and I have been so tired. My immune system for the first time in my life (literally) has been down, and I have gotten 2 bad colds in 2 months. Never before had this happened to me. So co-sleeping has become somewhat an issue. We have started to do some of the No Cry Sleep Solution techniques. First I am working on nightime weaning, then I will work on getting her into a toddler bed. I feel for anyone who does this. Its been hard on our family here!!


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## zane (Jan 21, 2004)

I have a 10mo old who is driving us crazy. He wiggles, kicks, "sings" and is generally a bad bedmate. He also is crawling and will soon fall off the bed.

For the last week, we have put a futon mattress on the floor in our room. I nurse him to sleep there, then get up. I sleep in my own bed - ahh the freedom! Then when he wakes, I get down in his bed and nurse him back to sleep. Then return to my bed for sleeping. So far I am getting a little less sleep, but I think its a transitional thing. He sleeps in 3hr stretches alone vs 90min next to me. I don't have to wake up at every wiggle worrying he is headed off the bed. So hopefully in another week or two, we will all be sleeping better.


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Count me in. I LOVE co-sleeping. I HATE co-sleeping. Depends on the day. I wish I knew what was best for both of us. Today I'm exhausted so I HATE co-sleeping!!! There, it feels good just to say it, because I so love the concept of co-sleeping.

DD's back to waking about 6-8 times/night. She wakes up cranky. I wake up cranky. She pinches and scratches me when she nurses so I can't sleep. Totally horrible, terrible. Can you tell I just woke up...or got up anyway. I've been awake most of the night.

Enough for now. Need to go stare adoringly into dd's face for awhile.


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## janhunt (Mar 3, 2002)

I have a few more comments about the tempurpedic mattresses recommended above.

1) Safety may be a factor to consider. We know that waterbeds are not safe for infants, because they can't push themselves up from a soft object. The softer the mattress, the more difficult mobility can be. Tempurpedic mattresses are not only soft, they mold to the body, and are considered unsafe for adults with neuromuscular diseases. I have to wonder if an infant would be able to push against a Tempurpedic surface.

2) There are complaints on the Internet from customers who found the odor unpleasant, and who were then unable to return the mattress. If you buy one, be sure to ask about return policies.

3) Tempurpedic offers a free sample of the mattress material by postal mail. If you request this, be sure to tell them not to add you to their mailing list. I was put on their list after requesting a sample, and was flooded with mail for months. It took several phone calls before they finally took my name off the list.


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## Megs Mom (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by AdrianneWe_
*my cousin (sahm, 6 children) once told me to turn off my clock and stop thinking about the night wakings.*
I have been telling myself that I need to stop looking at the clock and calculating my 24-hour sleep totals every day. It's just too frustrating to go three hours, then four the next day, then five, then back to three, etc. This suggestion is probably worth a try! (Unless you are doing Pantley logs, of course).

Speaking of Pantley: No-Cry Sleep Solution Yahoo Group


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

I knew form the begginin that co-sleeping as in the same bed would not be for me. I go manic if I do not get sleep and I am very movement noise senstitive. So, I do not belive in martyrdom and I wanted to be a kind of mom who has energy to nuse and carry child arounf whol day long. I was also a WAHma t that time. We had the basinet right by my side so I could nurse on demand at nigh....and ahve a space to fall alseep in peace after.
What we discovered that we did not ahve a touchy feely ki and he did in fact slep better in his own place, but right by us. He also hated infant massage and rocking and was sensitive to wind.
He neede space ,and I guess he took after me
So, it worke dout for us.
If you feel recentful about soemthing, i do not think you should do it. We are not Budhas.....if we were, we would nto be on this board. It is OK to undersatd one;s limitation. Being a cranky sleep deprived mother will not benifit your child or you.
Why not pu a crib right next to your bed? You can touch the chil whne need for comfrot arises, easy acces for nursing etc
Jsut becuase cosleeping for 3 year works for someone and make someone happy....it does not mean it will work for your family.


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## Megs Mom (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by janhunt_
This question comes up fairly often in my counseling - yet many of these moms thought they were alone in facing these challenges!
Jan, how lovely to see your input in this discussion. Thanks for joining us, I'm a big fan.


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## gwendolion (Feb 25, 2004)

I'm with all of you. Pain...no sleep. Found that not watching the clock does work with frequent nurser. Also, NCSS does work but in incremental improvements. Making nursing a little more of a pain for ds does a little good. when I get discouraged I read about the benefits of co-sleeping and feel a renewed sense of motivation towards doing it. I try to imagine being a mother in the jungle with her baby in her arms...what would she do? I try to be very, very tired before bed so that I will sleep harder...and through the nursings. Keep praying that it will get better. Take naps. Exercise during the day! Very important to exercise for a healthy mind and healthy body=no pain and more energy.

Got to go, baby's awake-


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

If your baby is sleeping in the same room as you - either in a bassinet next to your bed, or on the floor on a mattress, or in a side-car co-sleeper, etc., I believe you are co-sleeping as much as a mother who has the baby right there in the bed with her. You have the baby right there with you either way, and are responding to his/her needs throughout the night.
So, we are all doing a great job with nighttime parenting! Yay! It's hard work, but worth it!!!


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## Kayeelle (Aug 17, 2003)

Suzetta,
How did you attach the crib to your bed safely?


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## Suzetta (Dec 21, 2003)

Kayeelle

Ours was a bit more difficult, as we have adjustable beds-but we took the front panel off the crib, dh got under the crib and tied a strap from each front leg to the bed until it wouldn't move. Then we stuffed a sheet between the crib rails on the opposite side and the mattress, which tightenrd the mattress right up next to mine. We are considering adding a safety rail to the section of my bed next to the crib, in case she thinks about sneaking out that way. She is a very mobile baby. But for now, I sleep in a spot where she would have to climb over me to get out.

For the first few nights, I had to practically sleep in the crib with the baby. Let me tell you, when you are able to lie next to her and see the fear on your child's face when they wake up thinking they are alone in that crib, you will never even consider letting her cry in that prison!

Now she really likes the set up. When she wakes up, instead of crying she plays in the crib for a while, then starts trying to climb over me to get to her spot in my bed. The best part is the morning, when she is wide awake, and I want to snooze. I can put her in the crib, and lay on the edge of my bed while she does her rolling and playing, I can snooze happily away without worrying that she will fall off the bed.


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## nadinem (Feb 25, 2004)

I have perennial back trouble. So, when we started off, I sat up to nurse with a pillow behind me and a pillow under dd. After a while we made it to every 2 1/2 hours.

I decided to try side lying nursing and found that she would stop sooner and wake up every 1-1 1/2 hours. I was going backwards. This was bad.

I realized that what I had been doing while sitting up was to *gently* stimulate her to keep her awake and nursing. (rubbing her legs or back, stroking her arms, etc.) She went back to nursing longer and I slept much better.

The downside is that I have to sit up, but my back is much happier about it and my wallet is happier with fewer visits to the chiropractor.

My dd is 1 yr old. We have a double bed so we kept her in our bed for only the first 3 months, then she graduated to the cosleeper attached to our bed. Now she likes having her own space (she'll frequently snuggle for a while but then return to her bed for sleep. She still wakes up at around 5:30 to snuggle for about 20 minutes before I move her back to her own space, but it's a pretty equitable arrangement.

I didn't hear anyone talking about making sure their baby stayed awake enough to get some nutrition. I hope this is helpful.


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## Megs Mom (Mar 19, 2002)

Megan, great point. I just started to realize this with my twins after I tried to nurse lying down and was awake over and over all night rather than just two or three times. I'm back to getting out of bed to nurse, at least for now.


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## StarMama (Jun 25, 2002)

With a co-sleeper/attached crib how do you nurse at night on the "off" breast? I can't lean over and feed from the top breast, it just doesn't work for us, I have large breasts and I have to hold it just so for him and then I'm leaning all wonky and sometimes his face gets a little TOO buried in boob for my comfort. I LOVE the idea of having more space in bed, when its just ds and I sleeping I can move far enough away from him to rest more comfortably, and I think I could do the same in with an attached crib, but only half the night...Hmmm maybe half the night would be better than none!

Also do you find you can nurse your babe to sleep while they stay in the co-sleeper/crib and not have to move them? Orion wakes the second I move him.


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## Missy P (Feb 24, 2004)

I also have large breasts and Ifind that when nursing on the side away from the attached crib, I have to kind of lay on the other one. It's not comfortable at all unless the one I am laying on is already empty. It's okay, but it does hurt my back.
Also, my son doesn't mind being moved once he's REALLY asleep. I let him fall asleep wherever, and then roll him over me to put him in the crib. We've been laying down to nurse since he was 4 months, so he's really used to being rolled over me to get to the other side.


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## nadinem (Feb 25, 2004)

I don't actually get out of bed, I just sit up, nurse, then lie back down. As far as nursing on the "other side" with a co-sleeper, it's a non-issue because I'm sitting up. I just shift her around.

I don't know how old your babies are, or how desperately you need the sleep, but in my experience, if Megan is sleepy as she nurses, then she'll fall asleep on her own after I take her off the breast and put her in the cosleeper. I heard that it was better to put her down drowsy and let her fall asleep on her own (instead of on the breast) so I worked towards that goal for us.

So my practice wasn't to nurse her to sleep, but to gently keep her awake until she pops off, telling me that she's done. At that point, she's full and ready to sleep for a while and I can put her down away from me, but still nearby. For a long time (until about 10 mos) I would put my hand on her back to reassure her and let her know that I was still there. I would remove my hand when she fell asleep. For me this was a good and kind compromise between having her in our bed disrupting our sleep (we have a double bed) and having her completely on her own.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

How do I switch sides while nursing through the night?

I lie in the crib that is attached sidecar style to our bed while ds is nursing; when I have to switch sides, I rotate ds. He might wake a little bit but falls back to sleep nursing (which he needs to do, anyway). (Besides, I was told to rotate or move the baby into different sleeping positions when he was born so he will always have a different way to lay his head and body etc., so I have just kept doing this as a course of habit for nursing, etc.)

The arms reach cosleeper did not allow me to do this, bc it had a raised side between the cosleeper and the bed. If I have another baby, I will just keep on using the crib bc it is flush with the bed. I plan to sell the cosleeper bc I really didn't use it for more than a few months. I suggest that if anyone plans to set up a cosleeper, that they just take the side off of a crib and clamp it to their bed, and stuff a quilt or something like that in the crack between the mattress and the bed mattress, or between the crib mattress and the crib wall. Just make sure that the bed mattress and the crib mattress are at the same height.

BTW, when ds is in bed with me, I sometimes just lean forward a little to offer the other breast so we don't have to keep switching back and forth. Altho, this is not always comfortable for me, so I find we are always playing "musical chairs" in bed.


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

Niha,

That sounds miserable. :-( It doesn't help right now, but within a few months, your dd will probably be big enough for you to nurse her while lying on your back, supporting her with your arm, and in other creative positions (maybe of her design) so that you get more variety and don't get so stiff.

Erin


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by nadinem_
*...in my experience, if Megan is sleepy as she nurses, then she'll fall asleep on her own after I take her off the breast and put her in the cosleeper. I heard that it was better to put her down drowsy and let her fall asleep on her own (instead of on the breast) so I worked towards that goal for us.

So my practice wasn't to nurse her to sleep, but to gently keep her awake until she pops off, telling me that she's done. At that point, she's full and ready to sleep for a while and I can put her down away from me, but still nearby. For a long time (until about 10 mos) I would put my hand on her back to reassure her and let her know that I was still there. I would remove my hand when she fell asleep.*
Lucky, lucky you! Yes, I would have loved to do this with my ds, and I know a lot of people who do, but, alas, my ds would have nothing to do with it. For at least the first year of his life he would never let me detach him from the breast until he was very deeply asleep. If I tried (believe me, I tried!) he would scream and scream. It was too traumatic, so I just nursed him to a deep sleep. Hopefully my next dc will be more compliant to going down in his bed drowsy!!!


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## StarMama (Jun 25, 2002)

Yes I agree very VERY lucky! It doesn't matter if Orion is in a DEEP sleep, there is no removing the nipple from his mouth until HE lets go. And he has never, not once, fallen asleep all by himself laying in bed. He will fall asleep nursing, being walked in the sling (usually while nursing), in the car (sometimes, other times he wants to nurse to sleep and the car will NOT do), and very occasionally he's passed out in his swing (more when he was a newborn).

I too, wanted to let him put himself to sleep, but so far he is not interested at all. So, to let us all sleep, I just nurse him down. Its better to have to sleep wonky than to not sleep for us.

AdrianneWe, I'm afraid I'm still lost. You'd lay in the crib and move your babe so his body is more towards where the crib attaches to the bed and you're further into the crib? Doesn't sound like it would work for us, I wouldn't be able to move over Orion while he slept... but I'm just trying to picture what you're saying


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Mama Jenni_
*ok, fellow mamas.... let us jump into the land of the buddha for a second... i know as well as any mama how challenging it can be to contort your body in all different positions to "night nurse".... i night-nursed my now 3.5 year old for 2.5 years and now have a 3 week old I plan on doing the same with.... here is my advice. Think of how short of a time span of night nursing you are dealing with, then compare that time to your whole life... seems like a pretty small sacrafice to make to cuddle your lil' sweeties while they are small and really need us....
I say think like a buddha and keep on nursing those buddha babies... they are lucky to have strong mamas like us.
oh yeah, make sure you get yourself a monthly massage and weekly visit to a chiropractor (preventative healthcare)







*
Thanks for your perspective mama jenni. And the idea of a monthly massage and weekly chiropractic appt. is a great idea.








for all of us co-'sleeping' mamas


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by *solsticemama*_
*And the idea of a monthly massage and weekly chiropractic appt. is a great idea.*
Daily Massage!!! Or every evening right before sleepytime, rather!!

ETA: oops - I made a mistake, the massage referred to here is for the mama, not the baby. Oh well, I would love a daily massage anyway, wouldn't you!!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by StarMama_
*AdrianneWe, I'm afraid I'm still lost. You'd lay in the crib and move your babe so his body is more towards where the crib attaches to the bed and you're further into the crib? Doesn't sound like it would work for us, I wouldn't be able to move over Orion while he slept... but I'm just trying to picture what you're saying







*
My ds is lying in the crib parallel to our bed, and I lie as much in the crib next to him as I can to nurse him. I try to keep him within the bars of the crib, and closer to the crib wall opposite the bed. When I move him, I actually flip him 180 degrees so either his head is at the top or bottom of the crib, but he stays in the crib. The thing is, ds wakes to nurse, so moving him isn't so much an issue. It's the nursing that gets him to sleep again.

In any case, he always ends up in between me and dh in our bed by 1:00 am!


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## StarMama (Jun 25, 2002)

Ahhhh I understand now! Thank you!


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## star jewel (Aug 31, 2002)

My kids are now 21/2 and almost 7 and I coslept and bf'ed both of them. My ds (the older child) was basically using me as a pacifier by the end; he was almost 3 and not nursing at all during the day. But he was glued to my breast the WHOLE NIGHT FOR MONTHS!! I finally weaned him with my mom and a friend's help and I remember noticing I was actually dreaming again after that!







I vowed not to let it get that bad with my dd, but it did; she was a much more demanding baby in every way; I thought I was going to have to put her in breastmilk detox and myself in an institution. She was MUCH harder to deal with, so I weaned her at about 18 mos because I was getting no sleep and starting to really get emotionally ill. (I'm still dealing w/postpartum, by the way, but...). In short, your babe is too young to wean, obviously; have you thought about pumping milk for the nighttime and giving feeding duty to your partner while you sleep on the couch or another bedroom? Or use pumped milk during the day while someone feeds and tends to her while you sleep a few hours? I know you've got loads of replies to your post; I hope my simple ideas help in some way. Just don't be ashamed of getting burned out; severe fatigue can be dangerous for you AND your kids too!! You don't want to end up flipping out because your delirious with no sleep.


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## bright eagle (Feb 14, 2004)

i really sympathize with the difficulty of the stage that a lot of you mamas are in. i stopped night nursing when ds was 20 mos. i was 2 mos pregnant and felt that it was time to change. i knew at that age i could give my son explanations that he could understand even though he didnt like them. im glad i waited so long and endured those countless nights that you are in right now. gosh its only been 9 mos since we stopped night nursings and i can hardly remember how we did it! anyway i just want to say that it totally drove me nuts at times, well most the time, but i felt like he just wouldnt understand why i wasnt giving him the comfort that he wanted. its hard. if you feel like you can hang with it and that your babe will be getting what you think is best then stick it out. if one more minute and your gonna scream then bless your heart, cause i know how that feels, and its ok to make a change.

good luck


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## newbabybug (Feb 27, 2004)

We only co-sleep part of the time because ds is so restless at night. The first part of the night he starts out in his baby hammock which is located in our room next to dh's side of the bed. When dh gets up to get ready for work, ds then moves into bed with me. Everyone is getting more rest this way than when we tried full time co-sleeping. We are also using some of the tips in the NCSS book. We have found the book to helpful and have recommended it to other parents.


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## birthsister (Jan 20, 2004)

My dd is 22 months and we're working on night weaning. She has always despised her crib, so we never used it. She started out in mom's bed, then she and I moved together to a futon in her room hoping she'd get the idea of 'her bed' so daddy could get some sleep, but now we're back in my bedroom. She naps in 'her' bed, but that's as far as she'll go with it. Because she was still night nursing like a newborn, and because I have an older child I"m homeschooling who was suffering for my bad temper and lack of sleep, I decided it was time to stop night nursing. Cold turkey was a nightmare. the first night I pretended to be asleep so she got up, picked out one of her board books (I thought she was going to entertain herself by reading...HAH) came back to bed and knocked me upside the head with it. As if to say "You! Yeah, you! Do I have your attention NOW?" So we're working on cutting out our nursings one at a time. Now, I nurse her to sleep, and then she's not allowed near the self serve milk bar again until 6 a.m. This is after pretending to sleep through the 1 and 3 a.m. nursing, or getting up and walking her, or sitting in the rocker, or any number of "get her mind off the milk' activities. I've even had to take to wearing a sports bra to bed, or else I'll wake up and find her latched on (hence the 'self serve'). Sometimes she'll sleep all night, sometimes she'll wake up and I end up sitting in the rocker with her and a sippy cup of water until she gives up and asks to go back to bed. Progress is slow, but there's progress. I guess I'm in the same boat, though. It's not so much the cosleeping as the nursing that bugs me. My older daughter went into her own crib at 4months and loved it. This one is a VERY different child. BTW, I may be showing my ignorance here, but what is the NCSS?

I try to think positively. We are gods in their eyes for such a short while, that in ten years when she doesn't want to be seen with me at the mall I'll be longing for those nights when she cuddled up to me and murmured sweet nothings to her midnight snack.

Peace,
Jen


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## Megs Mom (Mar 19, 2002)

NCSS


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## WriterMama (Mar 27, 2002)

*


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## Mom23kids (Aug 19, 2003)

Yes, I think of little babies who we think should get used to being alone, yet we shouldn't leave our adult husbands alone!? I know it can be difficult when we don't get sleep, especially when we have other children who are tugging at us at 6 or 7 am to get up, NOW. I've had 3 children in 10 years and I haven't had enough sleep since then. My youngest is 3 1/2 and she still sleeps with me part of the time. I lay down with her to fall asleep and then I sneek away and do everything I could not get done durring the day. Sometimes she or her brother or sister crawls in with us and they are always welcome. It just got too crowded to have all three kids in the bed with us all night.
It does get easier, but you have to work out something that works for your family. Every one is different.


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## JRP'sMom (Feb 29, 2004)

I know just how you feel. I co-slept with my son for 14 months and rarely had a comfortable night's sleep. Like you said, if he was just sleeping next to me, all was well. But when he'd nurse frequently throughout the night I was very uncomfortable. Backaches were a huge problem for me. But I dealt with it anyway. Then I decided at 14 months to move him into the room he shares with his brother and it has worked out really well. Once sleeping in his crib, he still awoke to nurse, but I only had to nurse for a minute or two before I was able to put him back down. When he was sleeping with me he nursed a lot more during the night because it was so accessible. Sleeping on his own reduced the amount of time I spent nursing each night. I weaned him after he turned 2 and am happy to say for the most part he is sleeping throughout the night. Which is good news for me since in 4 months I'll be waking up again with our brand new baby boy. At least I'll get some good sleep in until then! Good luck!


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## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

Just wanted to add a great bed doesn't always help the aches and pains.

We have king size select comfort top of the line 5 year old bed. We paid a lot of money for, and it was worth every penny no doubt about it. But I still wake up and spend my days full of pain. I don't care how good a bed you have, if you are contorted in a bad position while you "sleep" you are going to be sore.

We sidecared the crib tonight, hopefully that will help some, we will see.


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## Morgraine (Mar 1, 2004)

My son is 13 months now and reading your posts is like reading my journal on some days! Now that my son is on a sleep routine (which I try to respect) I have been able to do the following with good results most days for naps and now many nights. My husband and I both use this technique. I breastfeed my son and then we go into his room where we have a mattress on the floor. I turn of the lights and tell him I'm going to sleep. (You can not do this with a cranky baby) Then I lay down close my eyes. He often plays, brings me books but I am no fun. I just pretend to be sleeping. Usually, he will lay down on the matress and go to sleep too. Occasionally he just plays and plays . . . at which point I switch to plan B. Allow him free access to my breast, One at a time. But I make it difficult for him to get comfy. I sit, or roll into whatever position that Makes Him Work for it. And Work He does! But eventually he decides that It is to much effort, he's tired and he will lay down and go to sleep. Of course, this tech. can really leave your nipples sore. Good luck!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Here's how I got my dh and ds to figure out how to get ds to sleep without nursing: I started waitressing at night! Ha Ha! I wasn't even there! Thankfully there were no tears or tantrums; I guess my absence was accepted by 23mo ds who knew I would come back and nurse him as soon as I got home, so he went to sleep in our bed (in his crib sidecar) with dh rubbing his back. Only thing, he didn't go to sleep until after 10:30 pm, but better late than never!


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## ebethmom (Jan 29, 2002)

This thread has been helpful. We have Baby #2 on the way in July, and we are talking about how we'll do the sleep arrangements. With ds, I tried cosleeping but never could sleep. Sometimes I would nurse him lying down and doze until he was asleep, then take him back to his crib. Most of the time I would nurse him in the chair in his room. Neither was ideal since I would have to wake up all the way.

With this next baby, I hope that a baby bunk or some other cosleeper will work for us. Ds is 2 1/2 and comes to our bed for part of the night. I'd love to have a king size bed, but will have to make due with the queen. But we ARE getting a new mattress. We ARE (hear that dh??)!!!


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## ariadne (Jul 16, 2003)

I feel your pain with the co-sleeping. I could never sleep well with ds in the bed. We used the Arm's Reach Co-sleeper very successfully until he was 6 months old and was literally too big for it. From there it was an easy transition to a crib which is in his nursery, but still only about 6 feet from our bed!
He is still waking every 2 to 3 hours at night. However, I have the NCSS and when dh will buy into the bedtime ritual that I established it does work!! He has had several nights of 5 to 6 hour stretches of sleep with this so I know it can happen.


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

ariadne:
Have you considered putting the crib side car?

http://pages.ivillage.com/gentlegoodnight/sidecar.html


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## ariadne (Jul 16, 2003)

Thanks for the input, but spacewise it just wouldn't fit. I'm actually really happy with his location just outside the door. I think if I can get him consistently in his bedtime routine he will go back to the 5 or 6 hours. Of course, the key is being consistent, which is really difficult sometimes.


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## oliviagoddess (Jan 10, 2003)

TempurPedic's Site: www.tempurpedic.com/ 20 year warranty (twice as long as a regular mattress (intended to last only 10 years)

Select Comfort's Sleep Number Bed: www.selectcomfort.com/sleepNumberBed/ 20 year warranty


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## guerrillamama (Oct 27, 2003)

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!

i am also at my wits end, for all the reasons other mamas here have said.
BUT
i can't increase nursings during the day - i work full time now.
i can't buy a new mattress - i'm poor
massages? chiropractors? don't make me laugh!

i'm afraid to try the bottle of water; i'm worried that he needs the night time nursing b/c i work ft so he doesn't get it during the day. (i mean, he gets bm,but in the wrong packaging, yknow?) on the other hand, i don't notice any difference on the weekends.

a related problem: he insists on sleeping the exact amount of time that i sleep. he will not go to sleep or stay asleep unless i am right there in bed - and will not let me detach unless he is in DEEPEST sleep. so i try to wake up earlier so i can get something done, and no matter how early i set the alarm, he's ready to rise and shine with me. this is driving me crazy, i am falling further and further behind in my work everyday. and i'm tired. and my back hurts.

does anyone have any suggestions that don't cost $$?


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## oliviagoddess (Jan 10, 2003)

I can really relate. I worked full time days until she was about 5 months old and went back to shcool when she was 8 mo. It took until our daughter was 2 yrs before I could get up an pee in the middle of the night without her waking up. My first night time date with the hubby happened when she was 3 1/2 and her cousins were sleeping over at the grandparent's house and she slept with them. She did want to nurse as soon as she woke up at 6 am, though.

Otherwise our bedtime is 8pm, whether I like it or not. I went back to school full time and since I was an english major, I had a lot of reading/writing to do. I did all my studying in bed between 8pm and midnight (my natural sleep time). This did take some gymnastics on my part but I did it. Reading was easy, writing was the hard pard but I insisted on a laptop as our next computer 4 years ago and am now very glad we spend the extra $$ as I would have had to write longhand.

After a while she got used to detaching, I guess it was her way of knowing that I didn't go anywhere. The trick is consistency when detaching. It may take a while before she is used to it, but many times they just want the contact. I usually slip my finger into the crack of her mouth and simultaneously pull my nipple out with the same hand. I usually wait until there is just an occasional - suck suck - before doing it. If I do it too early, I let her re-attach and try again in a few minutes.

Keep in mind that since you are pumping, this may be what is keeping your milk supply up (since milk hormones are released while you sleep and nipple stim is what send the signal to the brain). Also she may just miss that contact that you two used to have, remember that she had direct skin contact every two hours for a long time. Try sleeping topless and baby in just diapers to det that skin contact that she may be craving. And this may seem a little strange but try taking a shower (or a bath with baby, we still do that and she's 3 1/2 now) when you come and don't use any scented soaps, shampoos, perfumes or deodorant after you get out. She may miss your smell (I didn't actually use deodorant until my maternity leave was over at 6 weeks and never on the weekends - I would bathe mind you, just no deo).

With kids, it takes about 7 to 8 nights of consistently doing a routine (such as don't use me as a night pacifier) for them to get used to it. Of course most people don't have that kind of patience. FYI it takes kids about 7-8 whines to get you to cave into their wishes (for candy, or whatever), so take heart.

None of these solutions take any money, but they do take time and patience and you have to adjust your schedule to meet baby's needs. Notice this post said nothing about cleaning or cooking, I don't believe women with small children should do that kind of work. At least not until the little ones can start to "help".

My non bf, non ap or single friends are amazed that I am in bed by 8pm. I always tell people that if I wanted my life to be easy, I woudn't have had kids. They are a lot of work, but I'm willing to do what it takes. I gave up the ghost on the fantasy of how childrearing was going to be and don't find anything upsetting when other people think I do things strange. I know they're the strange ones ;-)

Hope this helps!


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## JENinOR (Mar 14, 2006)

Just wanted to add what works for us for what it's worth. I have coslept with both my boys and plan to with this upcoming baby. I haven't read much about cosleeping, maybe about an hour here at this forum, so I have no idea if this is AP friendly or not...haven't read much about that either. From day one when my babies are sleepy (I look for signs) I lay them on their tummy awake and put the heaviest blanket weather allows over them and they fall asleep. Once inawhile they might fuss a minute or two and even more rarely the really go at it and I pat them or pick them up and hold them till they settle down and lay them back down again. I don't rock or do anything except lay them on my bed or bassinet. I nurse when they wake up and when they are sleepy because they will eat lots at these times, so in general about every two hours. They don't usually wan't to nurse inbetween,probably because they are full. I nurse them laying down before their last sleeptime in the evening 7







o to 8:30ish, occasionally earlier or later. Then wake them up and nurse before I go to bed and we cosleep the rest of the night. I don't have any problems with my kids going to sleep on their own (naps and bedtime) but maybe i am just lucky. They wake to nurse at night but go back to bed except occassionally. We are going to be more attentive to my sleep depravation status this time as far as cosleeping goes, I am a light sleeper and don't sleep during night nursing. When I reach that point we move to having baby in arms reach and usually easily work down to one night nursing ie waiting to see if baby goes back to sleep, just patting or picking baby up and when baby is settled down laying him back down again. Our babies have slept through the night pretty quickly after not being right next to me. Ideally, I would like to be a heavier sleeper and nurse and have baby sleep in bed with us longer than the 7 and 12 months so far or have a babe that only nurses once a night but I am just to light a sleeper and they are heavier night nursers that I can physically cope with. Maybe I can try having them in bed with me and working down to one night nursing..patting baby to sleep for example and they would delvelop the habit to only wake once a night. We don't let our baby cry it out, but do let them fuss a little bit to try to put themselves to sleep but if they really start crying we do something for them . I think putting them down awake from day one helps a lot and with a full tummy for naptimes is a good combination. Just my experiences so far.


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