# I don't know how to convince DBF not to spank :(



## ananas (Jun 6, 2006)

We're expecting our first child, and he's very pro-spanking. His parents did it (as did mine), and he feels it taught him to respect them.

I'm at a loss as to where to go from here. I don't see him budging, I'm obviously not going to budge...any ideas?


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## my3peanuts (Nov 25, 2006)

Is he willing to educate himself on it?

My dh and I both grew up spanked. He feels like he was not harmed in being spanked and it made him respect his dad, I feel like it made me feel like I didn't have a say in anything and I hated it.

For my dh it's helped for me to say why I don't like spanking because of how it made me feel as a child and I've said things like, "How do we teach them not to hit when we hit them?" or "Spanking just teaches them to avoid doing something when we're around. What about when we're not around?" Just things like that that seem to make him think. He's still of the belief that kids need a spanking once in a while if they're openly defiant but he's come along way. He's never been a huge spanker and actually he hasn't spanked any of our kids in a very, very long time, thankfully! His family are all very pro spanking so I'm thankful he's been willing to see my side of it as well!


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## ananas (Jun 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my3peanuts* 
Is he willing to educate himself on it?

My dh and I both grew up spanked. He feels like he was not harmed in being spanked and it made him respect his dad, I feel like it made me feel like I didn't have a say in anything and I hated it.

For my dh it's helped for me to say why I don't like spanking because of how it made me feel as a child and I've said things like, "How do we teach them not to hit when we hit them?" or "Spanking just teaches them to avoid doing something when we're around. What about when we're not around?" Just things like that that seem to make him think. He's still of the belief that kids need a spanking once in a while if they're openly defiant but he's come along way. He's never been a huge spanker and actually he hasn't spanked any of our kids in a very, very long time, thankfully! His family are all very pro spanking so I'm thankful he's been willing to see my side of it as well!

I don't know if he's willing to be educated or not. We have a ways to go (I finally got mad at him earlier because he kept saying "When our kids are bad"...I don't believe kids are EVER bad). He doesn't go along with the "How do we teach them not to hit" reasoning...he refuses to see where spanking is hitting anyway.

We have 7 months, I'll keep working on him.


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

If it helps any, I had everything figured out before I had a kid.

Then I had to learn everything.


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## KnitLady (Jul 6, 2006)

Would it help to reassure him that you do plan to use some form of discipline and you won't accept bad behavior? I know that some ppk believe that all children who aren't spanked are doomed to being spoiled and acting horribly.

Try sending him some links about positive discipline and show him what the research shows about spanking. Don't give up, mama!


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## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.







In my country spanking is illegal, and our kids are actually relatively nice.







Spanking is completely unnecessary in a loving relationship between people.

Apart from the fact that hurting somebody who is small and dependant on you is downright nasty, there's lots of research to show that spanking is totally counter-productive, as it causes fear and resentment.

For instance, toddlers and babies who are smacked on their hands when touching things that their parents should have placed somewhere else, show less curiousity and explore less. Not only are they afraid of touching the things their parents didn't want them to touch, but they are apprehensive about touching things in general. Therefore they learn less than toddlers who are allowed to behave like normal, inquisitive toddlers.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

Since we don't have time travel yet, you'll have to convince him now. Try having him read Kids Are Worth It! by Barbara Coloroso. I like that one. I wouldn't stay w/ someone who was hitting my kids, so I'd be trying really hard to convince him before they get to prime hitting age (toddlerhood).


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Educate him. Make him read or watch Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn. Send him all the links you can find on spanking (there are plenty!) .. and if that does not do it, I'd put my foot down and tell him you feel hitting another person is asault and you wont stay with anyone who does it.

I've been in your shoes. My DF was pro-spanking, but was also open to learning a different way. It was easier because my son was not his biological child, so in a way, he didn't have a say back then. But it didn't take long for him to be totally converted, and now he's better at GD than I am.







So there is hope.


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## violet (Nov 19, 2001)

Everybody is different and different logic affects people different ways. What kinda guy is he?

There's the child psychology argument 'studies show that spanking offers no long term benefits in the way of improved behavior but spanking does cause long term negative impact on the parent child relationships. spanking only offers short term cesation of behavior' -lots of studies have shown this

There's the Christian based argument - in response to that horrible spare the rod misquote "what do you think Jesus would do in the case of challenging behavior" can't picture him striking a child -- he was a teacher in the best sense of the word.

There's the I was spanked and I turned out all right rebuttal: "Sure, you turned out _all right_, but how much more awesome could you be now if you hadn't been spanked?"

there's the respected authority argument - who does he respect/ admire? any friends with kids that you both know are doing a great job - and they don't spank. or taking a parenting class together and hearing about all the information from a neutral source.

Or the "let's start with what we agree on" argument. Even those who do spank usually agree that spanking is the last resort, not the knee jerk reaction. SO, can we agree that 99% of parenting is everything we do before we ever get to the point where we disagree about what we should do next? Can we agree that if we are doing the first 99% of parenting responsibly then we should only very rarely get to that end of our rope moment where you think we should spank? If we can agree to that much, then I make it my goal to help you see that the first 99% of parenting is all that is necessary. That last moment of desperation, that's parental desperation. If one of us ever gets to the point where we think spanking is the only thing appropriate, we owe it to the child and the other parent to check and see if this situation might actually fall into that 99% of basic parenting stuff and perhaps we are just too emotionally involved to see this is a normal challenging behavior.

Then there's the "does it really teach" argument from _Positive Discipline_ I think. If you spank your 3 yr old to teach him not to run into a busy street, do you then feel comfortable allowing him to play unattended near a busy highway? no? why not? he was spanked. didn't that "teach" him? No of course not. Learning is developmental and spanking doesn't teach anything other than fear and separation.

So, there's my laundry list. I'm sure others have other arguments they've used. I think the key is to find the one or ones that fit your DBF's mentality. And if he's talking about 'bad" behavior, it might be helpful to really learn a LOT about developmentally appropriate behavior. Parenting classes are great for that.

Good luck. It's worth the effort.


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## LoveMyTwoBoys (Dec 14, 2007)

I am totally in the same boat. DH was spanked. Well, he was swatted with a wooden paddle that he himself had to fetch when his dad "needed" to use it.

Anyway, DH spanked DS1 for the first time yesterday simply because he didn't come inside when he was told (it snowed for the 1st time a few days ago). DS came running in to me bawling "Daddy spanked me too hard." I took him to the bathroom to talk to him out of DH's earshot. Poor guy had a welt on his butt. I was furious. Later that night I told DH that I didn't like him spanking DS and that he did it too hard. His reply? "It wasn't too hard. It was just right because now he'll listen." No, now he will fear his father who isn't here but a few days a week as is.

I won't lie, I have swatted DS a few times but nothing to hurt him. Mostly to get him going in the right direction. I am proud to say though that since I joined this forum, I haven't spanked him at all. He has only had a few timeouts as well.

What do I do as DH though? He is deadset on spanking. I was against it to begin with but sometimes let my frustration get the best of me. Now I totally do not want him to lay a hand on our children. Please help me. (and ananas)


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## sydlou (Aug 14, 2007)

I would second Alfie Kohn's Unconditional Parenting DVD- first, it's a DVD, so he's more likely to watch it, and secondly, it realy puts the "kids need punishment" argument under scrutiny.

here are some interesting links:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/T110100.asp#T110300

on hitting:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T062100.asp

I think Dr. Sears has some wonderful points, however, I don't agree with his timeout methods, we practice UP in our household.

Something I do w/ regards to societies' general attitude about spanking is I ALWAYS replace the word with "hitting" as that is what it is.
X person asks:
"Well- what do you guys do for discipline if you don't spank?"
I reply:
"We do discipline, as in discipline meaning teach. We DONT hit to teach."

You do have awhile, good luck.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

*Trigger warning*: the below anti-spanking support websites contain violent content.
http://www.nospank.net/endcp.htm
http://www.nospank.net/
http://www.neverhitachild.org/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin4.htm


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Hitting my children is a deal breaker for me. If my partner hit my children, he would have to leave my home. Sorry, that's really harsh, but hurting children to make them obedient isn't remotely okay with me.

Stand up for your children. They deserve it.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlyboys* 
Hitting my children is a deal breaker for me. If my partner hit my children, he would have to leave my home. Sorry, that's really harsh, but hurting children to make them obedient isn't remotely okay with me.

Stand up for your children. They deserve it.









:

Before I got pregnant, I was using birth control pills that made me have problems with rage. I wasn't 100% positive it was the pills causing it, and I told my husband if I ever hit our children, even if I claimed it was for discipline, that HE should leave ME and take her away until I could get my problem straightened out. So I would not allow my husband to be here if he was hitting my children, and I would expect him to take our dd away from me if I started hitting her.


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## MamaB2C (Nov 20, 2007)

Try asking him how he is disciplined when he makes mistakes or does something boneheaded (as an adult!), at work and in interpersonal relationships. As adults we are not usually struck by others. Does he respect other adults, like his boss, friends, or his significant other (you) because they hit him?

Then ask how does hitting them teach them anything useful or beneficial about life?


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I have sometimes found "Would you hit your spouse if he or she misbehaved?" to be an eye-opener. Also, if you have pets, would he hit those? Amazingly, some people can see how hitting a pet is wrong, but not a person...until challenged.

It may be important to him for you to say that you think his parents are good people and good parents who meant well and were parenting in different times. My DH was spanked, and he had to get past the idea that rejecting spanking was equivalent to rejecting his parents and upbringing.


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## JulieK (Aug 25, 2004)

I know this isn't so original, but the argument that usually works even on myself when I lapse into a holler or two is that I'm my child's most important role model, and if I yell/spank as usual behavior, it will follow that he will eventually do the same. You may want to emphasize what you want to teach your kids vs. trying to change negative behavior.


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

Buy the books, leave them around, etc. Then you can wait it out and see how he actually parents. My DH "believed" in spanking pre-DD's birth. Now he agrees that there is just no reason for it, can't imagine ever deliberately hurting her in the name of "discipline."

We are divided on circ, though. I'm banking on him having a similar transformation between now and the day we're blessed with a son -- or just not taking the initiative to find a dr to do it, pay out of pocket, etc.

I would leave DH if he ever hit DD, even if a court wouldn't consider it "abuse."


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

When our seven year old was little, my dh was ok with spanking and did it once or twice. (He's only ever done it those times) I was more adamant than him about not doing it and talked with him about gentle discipline a lot.

Now I think dh is better with gentle discipline than I am. He'll tell the kids "We don't hit in our family" if someone hits and he hasn't spanked anyone for five years, when I have lost it and hit them.

My advice is to take an "absolutely not" position with your dh and let him know that the two of you will come up with ways to discipline together that don't involve hitting.


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## ananas (Jun 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
I have sometimes found "Would you hit your spouse if he or she misbehaved?" to be an eye-opener.

I brought that up yesterday, it did NOT end well. That's a sensitive subject for him, and it wasn't a good idea of me to bring it up even though the point needed to be made.









Thanks for the thoughts, everyone.


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## ktmama (Jan 21, 2004)

I think it's important to discuss your shared goals for your dc. What are your priorities for your child? Hear your partner out and then get the info that you need to share and read to make an INFORMED decision.

What I imagine some of his responses might be and what you should search for:
1. I want him/her to obey us. Look up some info on kids who are blindly obedient and their vulnerability to drug and alcohol use and other peer pressure.

2. I want well behaved child. Give him some info on NORMAL child development and what you can expect from a child's behavior at each developmental stage.

3. I want my child to respect me. Get some information on the development of parental respect in children and how to be the best role model possible.

You get where I'm going with this....

I think really hearing him out without challenging him right away (so you don't make him defensive) will be helpful and then really tackling the problem as a TEAM. How he deals with your approach will tell you a lot about how he'll handle these kinds of things in the future. Good luck.


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## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlyboys* 
Hitting my children is a deal breaker for me. If my partner hit my children, he would have to leave my home. Sorry, that's really harsh, but hurting children to make them obedient isn't remotely okay with me.

Stand up for your children. They deserve it.

Me too. Spanking is abuse to me and I would be out the door so fast.


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## ktmama (Jan 21, 2004)

_Me too. Spanking is abuse to me and I would be out the door so fast._

I'm sure most of us feel this way, too. Unfortunately, if you separate or divorce, you have even LESS control over how your partner disciplines your kids. In addition, most states don't see spanking as abuse and wouldn't limit visitation or custody for this reason alone.


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## Mammy Julie (Sep 24, 2007)

How about telling your dh why you feel uncomfortable with spanking and why you personally won't do it. That way its less confrontational but you can still get across your point of view but in a 'this is how I feel' sort of way. It could go something like 'I've been thinking about spanking and I just could never bring myself to do it. It really worries me that my child will become afraid of me. I know some children seem to turn out fine after being spanked but then there are also children who are more sensitive to that kind of thing - how can we be sure which our child will be? I would really like to look into other ways to discipline and it would mean a lot to me if it was something we could work on together.' Also give him the chance to fully explain why he believes in spanking and listen to him. I'm sure nothing he says will change your mind but the fact you were willing to listen to what he had to say may make him more willing to take on board what you say also and then you can move forward together.

My dp isnt really open to reading books but he'll listen to me read odd abstracts from books to him. Could that work with your dh? I do it quite casually, just say 'Wow it says here "........", I hadnt really considered that before/I always thought that, its interesting to see it put into words. What do you think?'


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlyboys* 
Hitting my children is a deal breaker for me. If my partner hit my children, he would have to leave my home. Sorry, that's really harsh, but hurting children to make them obedient isn't remotely okay with me.

Stand up for your children. They deserve it.

Same here.

And the whole "It made me respect them" thing is lost on me. I was spanked & while I don't hold it against them, it in NO way made me respect them, quite the opposite.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ktmama* 
I'm sure most of us feel this way, too. Unfortunately, if you separate or divorce, you have even LESS control over how your partner disciplines your kids. In addition, most states don't see spanking as abuse and wouldn't limit visitation or custody for this reason alone.

Well, I would hope that it would shake my partner in such a way that he would choose to see what an important issue this is for me and our children. Sometimes I think a very hardline approach really gets the job done.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

I believe her partner is a DBF not a DH. If this is correct, and she chose to leave him over being violent with her child, there wouldn't be a divorce or legal separation involved. If she chose to leave him before the birth of her child, he might have to prove paternity to have any rights.
I couldn't stay with anyone I couldn't trust with our child.


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