# Car seat slump and the "pinch" test questions



## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

My son is riding RF'ing in a Britax Marathon, and I have realized recently that if he sits up correctly, his shoulders are above the next to top slot on his seat. I have the straps in the next one down, though, as he usually slumps down a bit and his shoulders are then below that slot. Which slot should I be using for him? Also, is it ok that he slumps down? It would be pretty much impossible to not have him slump a bit.

My next question is in regards to how tight the harness should be. I usually have it so tight that I have to really tug to get it buckled in. I am paranoid, and would rather have it be a bit on the too tight side than too loose. Anyway, I have noticed that even when it is so tight that he complains, that I can pinch a bit of the harness at his shoulders. I know you are not supposed to be able to do that, but there is no way it will go tighter. I literally have to push his belly/groin in to get him buckled in. I definitely feel like his harness is too tight, but I worry about how it really should be.

Help please?


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## SparklingGemini (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I can answer part of your question.

RFing harness straps are supposed to be at or below the shoulders.

So, I would just keep them in the lower slot.


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## azmomtoone (Aug 30, 2008)

Which way are you pinching the straps?

At the correct tightness you should not be able to pinch a horizontal fold in the straps. You will almost always (at least in my experience) be able to pinch side-to-side and get a vertical fold.

How-to thread w/ pics: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=49030


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklingGemini* 
Well, I can answer part of your question.

RFing harness straps are supposed to be at or below the shoulders.

So, I would just keep them in the lower slot.


I know this rule, but how do you measure where their shoulders are? Do you measure them sitting up correctly? Or do you measure with them slumped down? Is sitting up correctly only an accurate measurement for when a carseat is outgrown? It is so hard when he slumps down to know exactly how high he really is in the seat.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *azmomtoone* 
Which way are you pinching the straps?

At the correct tightness you should not be able to pinch a horizontal fold in the straps. You will almost always (at least in my experience) be able to pinch side-to-side and get a vertical fold.

How-to thread w/ pics: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=49030

Yep, that is the pinch I am doing. He is in there as tight as is humanly possible without injuring him, but I can still pinch a tiny bit of harness the way it is shown on that picture series. So frustrating!


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

Come on car seat gurus! I know you are out there!







Help a mama out here. Pretty please with sugar on top?







:


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## Mommybree (Jul 27, 2007)

Do you have the HUGS on? They are required for FF, but not for RF. If you take them off (and put them aside for later when it is time to FF), sometimes the harness fits the child better. What about the shoulder pads?

Do you loosen and then re-tighten the harness each time you put your son in the seat? That might help rather than have to push at him to get the seat buckled.

Sorry, I know those aren't the best of suggestions.


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommybree* 
Do you have the HUGS on? They are required for FF, but not for RF. If you take them off (and put them aside for later when it is time to FF), sometimes the harness fits the child better. What about the shoulder pads?

Do you loosen and then re-tighten the harness each time you put your son in the seat? That might help rather than have to push at him to get the seat buckled.

Sorry, I know those aren't the best of suggestions.

Yes, I do have the HUGS on. I can try taking them off to see if it makes a difference. I do not have the shoulder pads on.

I don't tend to loosen the straps and re-tighten each time, as I can't seem to get a good tight fit when I do it that way. I need to unbuckle him, snug up the harness and try it to see if it is tight enough. If he is wearing the same clothing (as in getting in and out at a store), I definitely don't adjust the harness. If he has a different coat on the next day, I adjust them.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

How far below the slot is he after he slumps?


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

He is below the next slot down when he slumps down if that makes sense. I think there are three RF'ing slots on the Marathon (if I am remembering correctly without running out to my car). The second one from the bottom is where his straps are now, and when he slumps, he is just below those slots. The third up is just below his shoulders if he is sitting up straight, but definitely above when he slumps down.


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pumpkin_Pie* 
Yes, I do have the HUGS on. I can try taking them off to see if it makes a difference. I do not have the shoulder pads on.

I don't tend to loosen the straps and re-tighten each time, as I can't seem to get a good tight fit when I do it that way. I need to unbuckle him, snug up the harness and try it to see if it is tight enough. If he is wearing the same clothing (as in getting in and out at a store), I definitely don't adjust the harness. *If he has a different coat on the next day, I adjust them.*

Before you buckle him, he shouldn't be wearing anything heavier than a light sweater. A bulky coat can lead to compression and the harness not restraining him properly in the event of an accident.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Yes, from everything I've read, a coat is too thick if you have to readjust the straps (from what would fit over a regular shirt).


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

Well, the difference in his coat is pretty minor, but on some days it is still pretty chilly. I live in Vermont, and there is no way I am putting him in just a light sweater, or just a long sleeved shirt. I just wanted to clarify that I adjust the straps pretty regularly to make sure they are super, duper tight.

Anyone else have any insight on the slumping issue?


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## Labyrinth (Apr 14, 2008)

Coats are a no-no, especially puffy or thick coats. It can cause serious injury and possibly even ejection due to compression. I live in northern Illinois, we were below 0 for most of January, often as low as -20+. It was COLD. Still, though, every time I put them in the car I took of their coats and buckled them in. Underneath their coats they had on long sleeved t-shirts or polos, followed by a polar fleece hoodie. After removing the coat I would then put it back on backwards so they would still have the warmth from the coat. They were plenty warm







It was a pain at first, but after I got the hang of it it was easy.

I would move him up to the next slots, honestly I believe that would solve your problem of tightening the harness as well as prevent him from slumping quite as bad. The issue with the straps at or below is ramping up the car seat- if the straps are at or slightly (like a cm to 2) above the shoulder there should be minimal or no excess ramping up. I would be more concerned that you cannot get the harness tight enough.


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## SaraLe6 (Mar 4, 2009)

I agree with Labyrinth, move up to the next slots and see if you can get a tighter fit at the shoulder without cutting off the blood supply to his lower extremities at the crotch.

I also agree about the coats.. no matter how cold it is, they should never, ever be wearing a thick coat. It may be as tight as YOU can get it, but it WILL compress further in a crash, causing a loose fitting harness at a time when you need the tight fitting harness the most! I always keep a fleece blanket in the car to put over my DS when it's cold.


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

I know I am not supposed to use puffy coats, and I am not using them. I am using a windbreaker with a very light fleece liner. It is definitely thicker than a "light sweater", but definitely not "puffy".

So, it is safe to have the straps high enough above their shoulders RF'ing that you can see two slots above? It is just so confusing with all of the conflicting info out there. Very frustrating. Sigh.


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## Labyrinth (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pumpkin_Pie* 
I know I am not supposed to use puffy coats, and I am not using them. I am using a windbreaker with a very light fleece liner. It is definitely thicker than a "light sweater", but definitely not "puffy".

So, it is safe to have the straps high enough above their shoulders RF'ing that you can see two slots above? It is just so confusing with all of the conflicting info out there. Very frustrating. Sigh.

I'm assuming that if you move up to the next set of harness slots which are at his shoulder, that the slumping will reduce since the straps will be tighter and holding him more snuggly against the seat. Therefore, I would assume his body would cover the slots he is currently in.

Basically, generally it is at or below for RF. But if a child is almost at the next set of slots, and there is some other usage issue (such as straps slipping or inability to tighten the harness) then it is OK to move them up.


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## UltimateSerj (Apr 9, 2002)

I have been thinking about this thread and how i haven't ever noticed slumping, DD3 is the same age and size as your little guy and is still on the second set of straps in her marathon. the only thing i can think of is maybe angle of the carseat, could be causing the slumping?

what Labyrinth says makes sense, it could be that he does really need the higher straps to hold him in tighter to the seat more upright.


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## azmomtoone (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pumpkin_Pie* 
He is below the next slot down when he slumps down if that makes sense. I think there are three RF'ing slots on the Marathon (if I am remembering correctly without running out to my car). The second one from the bottom is where his straps are now, and when he slumps, he is just below those slots. The third up is just below his shoulders if he is sitting up straight, but definitely above when he slumps down.

That is an awful lot of slump! We have had some issues with DS slouching in his seat too and being unsure when to move up; but it's always just above / just below the same slot. I don't know what the "right" answer is on that one, which is why I didn't answer that part in my first response here.
But I'm thinking if it's that far, that just sitting he's above one slot but slouching down below the next slot under - and you're tightening the harness alot - it might be possible that you are pulling his shoulders down with the harness? and then maybe he wiggles more during the ride trying to reduce the pressure?
I might be wrong too. But I think if he's above the third slot sitting up, try moving the strap up and see if that doesn't help both of your issues at once.
If he still slouches down too far then maybe try putting something, such as a rolled up receiving blanket or prefold, around his legs, between his legs and crotch strap. (This IS an "authorized" padding, just so long as the blanket isn't between the kid and the seat - it is often recommended for newborns that are too small for the harness in the infant seat and slouch down because the crotch strap is too far out). I don't think I've ever heard of it being done with an older kid though but if it might help....


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

can you take a picture?


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## Tari Mithrandir (Sep 22, 2008)

Just wanted to say that this thread could easily have been started by me (though we are still using a bucket, and not a convertible yet). I find that if I can get DD in completely straight, she might be able to use the top slots in her Keyfit30, but she tends to scootch down, and we are still using the middle slots. I also can always pinch a bit, but feel I have her in too tight (to the point where I can still pinch a bit of strap, but when I remove my hand it is digging into her shoulders so I have to loosen it a tiny bit.)
I'll have to bring it in the house and play around with moving it to the next slot and see if that makes a difference, and compare photos to that 'Pinch Test' thread









ETA: Okay, I think picture 4 there is where I am considering myself still able to pinch a bit, so if I leave it alone at that point, I think we are good







Still need to check that slot height though!


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