# i lost my tempor with someone else's kid!



## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

ok
go ahead and flame me, but today is spit out some harsh words to a stranger's child at the park....i can't yet decide how guilty i feel, i know i did not handle it perfect but beyond that i don't know how wrong i was.
here is the story:
my dd saw a boy walk up to the playground with a bunch of toys, and then his mom handed him two big bags of toys (beach toys, trucks, stuff like that)
all the moms were introducing themselves and their chidren and their ages etc

my dd watched me meet his mom and learn his name and age (he is 4 and a half and she is 1 and half)

she walked up to him and said his name and smiled and his mom wondered over to another side of the playground and my dd pointed at his toys
and said
can i play?
he said
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
don't touch my stuff you are just a little baby and you will break it all
(and his tone was anger, and he said "baby" like it was an insult)
first of all we are talking about a plastic shovel
so i walked up and said, i will help her and make sure she plays with it nicely and i won't let her be rough with it.

and he looked at me like he hated us and said
don't let that baby touch my things, she is just a dumb baby...now go away!!!!!!!!!!

so i snapped
it hurt my dd's feelings so much
she was so sweet and polite
so
i looked at him and said
well you are the one that is still in diapers!
she can pee and poop in the potty and you still pee and poop in your pants, like a baby
and she at least has some manners unlike you.
come on dd, we don't want to play with that mean little boy, he is just acts like a baby!

i can not even tell you why or how it cam eout of my mouth
i know i am hormonal right now, but that was pretty bad.

so tell me what you would have done
or even better tell me if you have ever siad something mean to someone else's child
so that i feel like less of a b*tch


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## Oh the Irony (Dec 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moma justice*
so i snapped
it hurt my dd's feelings so much
she was so sweet and polite
so
i looked at him and said
well you are the one that is still in diapers!
she can pee and poop in the potty and you still pee and poop in your pants, like a baby
and she at least has some manners unlike you.
come on dd, we don't want to play with that mean little boy, he is just acts like a baby!


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## Vermillion (Mar 12, 2005)

I'm not going to flame you, what would be the point? You already know that it wasn't the best way to handle things and now you know better, right?

That said, I SOOOOO know how you feel! I have said those things in my head to many kids before. My child (who is very sweet, empathetic, kind and sharing) gets treated like dirt by other kids on a regular basis. It kills me inside and it takes everything I have not to be nasty back.









I try to remind myself that it probably isn't the kids fault&#8230; Maybe the parents just don't model kind behavior or correct them when they are mean. There are lots of reasons I imagine. But it still doesn't take the sting out of watching your child's heart break over some kid's nasty comments/behavior towards them!


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## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

wow. i know i am frequently tempted to do the same, but have always managed to control myself. in fact just yesterday as i watched this mean little brat say nasty things to my kid all during ballet yesterday i wanted to run into the class and tell the kid off.

i told jade after when we were alone that if the girl bothers her next time she should tell the kid to shut her piehole







: , which is certainly bad enough, but what i felt like telling her she should say was "i can see you are as mean and stupid as your mom."







:

so, um, i guess i don't really have any words of wisdom for you.

what is it about the playground that can really bring out our inner lioness?


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## Dodo (Apr 10, 2002)

There have been lots of threads like this in the past. So, relax, you're not the first to freak out on another person's kid.

Typically, the person writing the threads is the mom of a one year old. I think that it's common to have unrealistic expectations for kids who are older than our own. I know I do.

It's pretty normal for a four-year-old to lord it over a one-year-old for being a baby. It's pretty normal for a four-year-old to not want to share toys at the park. Geez, I don't like sharing the toys, because I hate searching the park for them when we leave.

As for what I would have done? Hmm... I dunno, Say something like, "Name calling is not okay" and move away, explaining to dd that the little boy needs some space, but doesn't know how to say it politely.


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## Oh the Irony (Dec 14, 2003)

yeah, but the kid has every right not to share toys with someone he just met.

i refuse to take our own toys to a park because it just leads to problems.

so he used baby as an insult, and then you turn around and use ut as an insult.

so, obviously you know NOTHING positive was created for that poor child or yours. if you had said that to my child i would have felt like slapping you...

what would i have done? probably after the first refusal, and definately after the second, i would have redirected my child to another area of the playground. if the ages had been closer, i would possibly have tried to get them to cooperate.


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## kiahnsmum (Oct 22, 2004)

MMMMMMMMMMM this is a hard one, i dont condone in any way hurting a childs feelings but i can completely relate to the mothering instincs that kick in when you see your childs feelings being hurt.
My ds who is extremely sensitive emotionally and takes what people say way too seriously had trouble with a boy at school who kept making up 'rules' and telling my son he was breaking them, like that he wasnt allowed rice crackers at school so ds would come really upset and would be anxious the next day asking me if what i had put in his lunch box was allowed. This was when my son had just started school so everything was new and i was also dealing with him not being at home with me which i wasnt handling so knowing that he was getting upset at school was heartbreaking.
The school had a sports day which included a picnic i had made heaps of yummy baking and my sons fav sandwhiches we ate the picnic in class groups and this particular boy was very interested in what we were eating and one of my ds new friends asked to share some of our stuff we said sure then the boy in question asked if he could too, well heres the part i regret, i told him that our picnic had all the things he had told ds were not allowed so there was no way i was gonna let him have any of it and he would just have to eat his boring sandwiches by himself. He has laid off my son since then!
unforunately i have since then seen the way his mother treats him, she talks down to him badly tells him not to be a baby and is always impatient with him, so i have totally changed my attitude to this boy and have found that he is really insecure, at the next picnic he was more than welcome to join in with us i even bought him hot fries from a food caravan nearby because he told me how much he loved them! :LOL


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

well you are the one that is still in diapers!
Ouchie.

You feel bad enough for saying it, so i wont further compound it by flaming you. I mean, we have all felt like saying these things, you just happened to cut loose and say it!

I have felt like saying things, and working at the school during recess, i can honestly say i feel like pinching a few of the kids heads for similar reasons.

I have had kids hurt my kids much in the same way this kid treated you little girl.

The kid was certainly within his right to say no, to not share (I mean, how many threads have been here at MDC about this issue, about how our kids don't have to share?). But like most little kids, he lacks grace in articulating things.

We can as adults control what we say, and when it comes to little kids, i think we should refrain from saying things like you did. But I'll tell you what, if my kid didn't share with your kid, and i over heard what you said....lets just say I wouldn't be pleased.


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## Simply Nurtured (Nov 6, 2004)

No flames, of course not, I don't do flames...

I am just wondering what the boy's mother said. If my son had said those things to another child, I would have been mortified... None of mine ever has, they are always happy and grateful for another child to play with.

But there have been a few times where my youngest, in particular, might be a little bossy, he is a "director", you know. :LOL He is always telling all of us the "correct" methods for everything.







He is very precise.

So if he is playing and another child comes along and he sees that they are not playing with the particular toy in the intended method, he might try to tell them, but I always remind him to be soft and gentle and ask, don't tell, and also to remember that everyone has different ways of playing with the toys. That has always worked and he plays really nice with children of all ages. And if the other child is younger, I gently remind him of that as well.

I am always really conscious about stuff like that, so I guess that is why my question is about what the mother's reaction was to her child's behavior. And was she stunned that you spoke up for your daughter?


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## farmer mama (Mar 9, 2004)

Whew! Well it is pretty bad. But I must say that we often feel the need to defend our kids, especially when it is our first and they are very young. I remember feeling really pissed off at some of the older kid's playground antics and ways of talking to dd when my first was little. It is easy with a little one to forget that bigger kids are still "babies", and while this little boy was irritating, he was acting within the normal spectrum of 4 year old behavior. I could go into ways that you could have spoken to him that would be more appropriate, but I am sure you already know them. This is precisely why I do not bring toys to the park, and if we did it would be very clear to my kids that any toys are fair game. Also, I do keep a very close eye on my children when they are interacting with other kids, especially because I know this type of thing is normal, and if anything like that happened (them being rude to another child, especially a younger one), I would intervene immediately and let them know that it isn't an okay way to speak to another person. That said, neither of my kids fortunately have been rude to other kids (because of their personalities and also because we are really careful about teaching them to share and to treat others with respect), so it isn't an issue. Anyhow, it sucks that he was rude, it is normal to be angry about it, what you said was out of line, but it isn't the end of the world. Hope this doesn't make you feel worse.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

I might have sighed inwardly, but I'd have told dd that the boy didnt want to share today and moved off. I have never spoken unkindly to another child, no matter what he or she has done. Firm, yes. Unkind, no. Not acceptable imo.

My dd didnt want to share her truck at the park today. Sometimes I dont want to share my stuff either.









I know you know it was wrong, but maybe you can mentally rehearse how better to handle something like this if it happens again. Sometimes we need to step back and realise that kids are kids - someday it will probably be your dd telling another kid she cant share or she's a baby. And you'd want another mum to handle it gently, wouldnt you?


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## allilyn11 (Jun 10, 2004)

Well, other people's kids annoy me more than my own do. I have less patience with other people's kids.


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## Dodo (Apr 10, 2002)

Britishmum, I don't think that I've ever seen a kid willingly share a truck.


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## Willowrose (Jan 24, 2005)

You already know what you said was wrong, so we'll leave it at that. I can very much relate to that mothers intuition kicking in and wanting to protect your child.
However, usually I am on the other end.
My son, just turned 4 and has Aspergers Syndrome(on the spectrum of autism). He is highly functioning and very intelligent and most people observing him, might see him as "different" or more "high needs", but otherwise "normal". In terms of sharing, he still does not understand. If he brings a special toy somewhere and does not wish to share it, I don't force the issue.
In our home, when we have a playdate, I try and reinforce sharing, but it is definitely something he has a major issue with.
All that to say, autism and other spectrum disorders are not visibly apparent.
Try and remember next time that while every mother *hopefully* tries to instill the right values into her child, they can not always be accountable for every word or action that comes from their mouths.
The bottom line is children are children. They just don't have the maturity of an adult. Their minds don't function like we tend to think they should. They are learning and growing every day. Some kids just need more time to develop.

Also, I just want to point this out....look how easy it was for you, a grown woman, to feel defensive and react the way you did.
That child probably felt the same way. Your daughter was, in his eyes, invading his personal belongings. He acted out defensively. Just as you did.


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## dziejen (May 23, 2004)

I guess it goes back to the old saying "Two wrongs don't make a right". I can completely understand your frustration and I have definitely been there. Sometimes other kids can completely make you crazy, especially if they are not treating your child well, but shaming a child because he wears diapers is almost cruel and, in this situation, irrelevant really. Sharing is a hard concept -- I think I may get more upset than dd sometimes -- but it is also not required for a child to share personal toys unless his mom/dad suggests it and offers to share with your child. I do give you a lot of credit for posting and we all have bad days, admitting it takes a strong person.







Tomorrow will be a better day.


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## Foobar (Dec 15, 2002)

No flames,

We all have bad days. I can see how your mamma wolf came out.

I would have just redirected my DD away and if she got sad about the toys, I would explain that some times she doesn't want to share so we have to accept that sometimes other kids don't want to share with us.... (I have had to do this before)

Oh and to the boy's comment that she is just a baby, well, she is 1/4 his age! How would you feel about someone 1/4 your age touching your things?


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

I'm not going to flame you but I'll tell you things from my point of view. Please don't take this wrong.

That might have been my dd. She is getting a lot better, but she is a bit behind emotionally and tries hard. On her off days she might have said something like that. She has nothing against babies but pick another subject and she might have expressed herself like that. I'm teaching her to use her words, not her body, and although it is sometimes ugly at least she's not pushing or hitting anymore.

You may not know what this boy's issues were. Maybe he was really tired and should have been napping but mom wanted some social time. Maybe he was hungry. Maybe a baby destroyed a toy of his recently and he doesn't know the difference btwn breakable and unbreakable toys.

If someone had said that to my dd it would have absolutely destroyed her inside b/c she tries hard and is very sensitive, even though sometimes her outward behavior is ugly.

The fact that he was still in diapers at age 4 may have indicated that he had some issues. Maybe, maybe not, hard to tell.

Did you give his mom a chance to step in and talk to him? If his mom was just chatting and not paying attention I might have done what you did at first by insisting that he share, but after he went off like that I probably just would have taken my dd and gone somewhere else.

----
ETA: I was a lot more intolerant of other children's behavior when I just had Abi and she had not hit the late toddler/preschool years yet. I used to judge kids and blame the parents for not bringing them up right. Well that went and bit me back! My dd is very spirited and outspoken and assertive. She does things that make me







: in public but I have to remember she's her own person. All I can do is guide her the best I can and hang on for the ride! When your dd is 4 you may look back on this and realize that the child was not that abnormal with his behavior. 4 year olds who are having a bad day . . . well let's just say it can get very, very ugly.


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## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

yes it was the wrong way to do it...
and my major concern is that the boy might be a high functioning autistic or other that would make him so unable to be polite and/or still be in diapers

that would make me feel real bad

but just to clarify, he had about 25 toys with him (i am not kidding his mom carried over 3 big mop pails of toys, trucks, shovels, guys, all sorts of stuff)
so it was not like my dd was going for the one lovey or prized truck.

and she did not even touch his stuff with out asking, he just heard her ask and freaked out, and when he freaked out, he did so with this tone of hatred, that just cut righ through as i watched dd's reaction....it was so sad!

the mom did not hear him OR me because she was way over onthe other side of the playground talking to another mom while her 4.5 year old was playing and her new born was in a bucket car seat on the gound in the sun....so she was not so tuned in...
and yes, i would not have said it quite like that if she had been able to hear me, so i did take advantage of that, not on purpose but i had watched her walk away before dd even came near his stuff...so i did know she was gone...

and i guess a big part of my fustration was that i have just moved into a VERY wealthy neighborhood, (we rent a basement apt....)

and i am just sick of these crappy moms
these are the moms who keep their babies in bucket seat all day long, dont' breast feed, have scheduled c sections just b/c, spank, and are obsessed with their kids wearing the most expensive kids clothes ever....

and these crappy moms have crappy kids.

period

so if you are saying things like, if this were my kid etc.....
i will just tell you that this is not your kid, this kid would never be your kid, if it were, you would not be here on MDC thinking about being a good mom.

and IMO, it is a bad sign if your 4.5 year old is still in diapers, every thing i have read about EC shows me that is just not normal or ok.

so thanks for everyone being so polite, i still am kind of shocked at myself for saying it, that is so unlike me to be that way with children...i have been a nanny, teacher, and have a lot of exp with special needs kids.

but i guess my whole take on things has changed now that i am a mom.
and she does not have the ability to stand up for herself...she is only 1.5 years old.

and to make it worse, yesterday, she tried to hug a frined's son (who is 3.5) and he pushed her down
it broke her heart.

so that is my whole story (that and i am PMSing)

thanks again for the gentle support and advice....i needed some feedback!


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## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

and i guess that i want to add, that i have been in this position before, i do just redirect and exlain to my dd that the other child is just not wanting to share...
but this situation is different in that that boy just seemed so angry and mean and hateful (for lack of a better word...) and spoiled...i know looks are not always what they seem. and if he really was any of those things, it is not his fault.
so ok i am really done now.


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moma justice*
yes it was the wrong way to do it...
and my major concern is that the boy might be a high functioning autistic or other that would make him so unable to be polite and/or still be in diapers

and IMO, it is a bad sign if your 4.5 year old is still in diapers, every thing i have read about EC shows me that is just not normal or ok.


Yes, for a typically developing child, 4.5 is a bit old to be in dipes, but for an autistic child, I'm learning this could be very normal. My ds1 was recently dx w/autism and within the last week learned it could be 7 or 8 before he potty trains. Also, my ds you can't tell he's got any issues except for the fact that he currently doesn't use language at all- he's 3- doesn't even say mama. I have no idea where he will be when he is 4.5.

So, yes, I hear your frustration- and understand the pms'ing. Not flaming, just something to consider. And I hear you with knowing that wouldn't be anyone here b/c people are here to learn to do right by their kids- it sounds like you've had lots of run ins with many detached mamas lately. That's rough. I hope it all goes better next time.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

The fact that he brought that many toys to the park kinda suggests that he might have issues about his stuff. Children that age also have a lot more personal space issues than children your dd's age and rejection of "babies" is pretty common. He was rude in the way he refused to share but not in the not sharing itself and he could have been told gently that it was fine if he didn't want to share but that he didn't need to hurt your dd's feelings and then his refusal to share should have been respected. What you did was much worse than what he did and it doesn't seem like you recognize that. My dd (just turned 8) still has trouble "holding it" and wears pull ups at night and "dribbles" sometimes during the day. She is not autistic and doesn't have other health issues. If she was mean to another child I would want to know and would be OK with the child saying something to her or the mother, if it was constructive. If anyone said what you did to my child and then didn't have the guts to come confess to me so that I know what was going on when she became even more ashamed and nervous about her toileting issues I would be livid and confront you after I found out and saw you again. I am upset by your lack of understanding of how devastating a statement like that could be to a child and then for you to try to justify it by saying that how abnormal it was for a child that age to be in pullups and then blame it on PMS. Soon your dc will be older and do many things that you can't imagine YOUR child doing and I hope that the adults around her will act with more caution and maturity,


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moma justice*
yes it was the wrong way to do it...
and my major concern is that the boy might be a high functioning autistic or other that would make him so unable to be polite and/or still be in diapers

that would make me feel real bad

and these crappy moms have crappy kids.

period

so if you are saying things like, if this were my kid etc.....
i will just tell you that this is not your kid, this kid would never be your kid, if it were, you would not be here on MDC thinking about being a good mom.

and IMO, it is a bad sign if your 4.5 year old is still in diapers, every thing i have read about EC shows me that is just not normal or ok.

!

My kid might have been the one at the park in diapers at four and a half. (And I"m here on mdc.) If an adult made a commment to her about diapers I'd be furious, and she'd have been devastated - far more so than you toddler being told she's a baby. It would probably have set us back another 6 months on potty learning.

Please, please dont make assumptions about other kids being 'crappy' if they are not what you consider to be 'normal'.


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## inthesnow (Dec 8, 2004)

It is your job as an adult and as a mama to teach by example. Yes, the boy could have reacted differently. He could have politely said that he wasn't in the mood to share. BUT HE'S 4!!!

And although it is hard to watch your child get treated badly by another child, it is part of life. And I look at it as my job not to correct the offender but to help show my child how to handle it when it happens.

In music class the other day, my five year old dd accidentally bumped into another 5 yr old in the class. The other girl YELLED at my dd "Watch where you're going!" and the whole class stopped. My dd turned and ran over to me, tears in her eyes. I don't think I would have improved the situation by belittling the other girl. But, I did comfort my dd and later we talked about what happened...and I tried to help her find words that would help her get through something like that in the future.

My point is that you seem to want some sort of affirmation that although what you did wasn't the best, it's okay because...... But I think you are failing to see that it is never okay to belittle a child. Teach by example. And some day when you have a 4 yr old you will hear them say things that you never thought YOUR child would say.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

I think what you said is a LOT worse than what he said.

I'm not flaming, but think about it.

And he's little. How can you have high standards for a 4 yr old, and not meet them yourself?
- - -

I don't expect kids to share toys with my dd at the park. I don't expect other kids to welcome her into their games.

Many, many times my dd will aproach 3-5 yr olds making sand "cakes" and whatnot. They almost never want her to touch their cakes, or interfere. I make sure she doesn't. I let her watch, I let her explore, but I am careful make sure she stops at their limits. I think that is important to model. If another person says "Hey, back off" you should back off. Even if they are rude about it.

Yes, they are older, but they are still LITTLE. I think maybe it is easy to see older kids and think they should be grown up, but they are young children.
1. They don't communicate tactfully
2. They have a right to their own opinions

I feel badly for that little boy.

ETA - I reread your OP and I think where you went wrong is that you blatantly disregarded his answer. She asked "Can I play with your toys?" He said no. You interfered and ignored him. Not respectful.


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## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

I have tried to understand your point of view, but as I have read this over and over I just can't understand or acceprt that an adult could speak in such a hurtful, and aweful way to a child.

Sure, he was rude...but he is 4! Sometimes four year olds are rude. I know you child is still young, but I will advise you, some day your child will be rude to a younger child as well. I only hope she does not have another mommy toss insults and shaming words her way when she makes a mistake.

They were his toys, and he has a right to ask that they not be played with.

What you said was aweful, and hateful, and shaming. It does not matter if he is special needs or not, you should feel terrible, and you owe that family a big appology. PMSing or not, please learn from this situation and NEVER let something like this happen again. If you are not able to control yourself around other peoples children, perhaps it would be best if you stayed in your own back yard.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:

and i guess a big part of my fustration was that i have just moved into a VERY wealthy neighborhood, (we rent a basement apt....)

and i am just sick of these crappy moms
these are the moms who keep their babies in bucket seat all day long, dont' breast feed, have scheduled c sections just b/c, spank, and are obsessed with their kids wearing the most expensive kids clothes ever....

and these crappy moms have crappy kids.
I am not really understanding how this has to do with speaking meanly to a four year old. This is justified because you don't like someone's parenting decisions or their level of income?







:

Quote:

i will just tell you that this is not your kid, this kid would never be your kid, if it were, you would not be here on MDC thinking about being a good mom.
Actually, I am rather shocked that someone on MDC would speak like this to a four year old.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

It sounds like, from your other comments, that you have a lot of other resentments, and you took them out on a safe person--that relatively defenseless child (his mother was not even nearby to protect him).

I hope that next time you feel the urge to lash out, that you will think for a moment and maybe bite your tongue.

Don't punish children on the playground because you resent your neighborhood.
Don't punish strangers' kids because your friends' kid hurt yours and you felt powerless to stop it.
Don't return a slap with a knife to the gut.
Don't punish children because their parents let them bring more toys than you think is proper, or because their parents use baby buckets.

What you said to that child is absolutely, positively inexcusable, and has NO place in an AP framework. Your daughter heard and saw you being vile to another little child today. However, I've got to tell you that what you did is also pretty common, I've heard parents say it to their own kids. So, you can criticize his mother for not being close and having her baby in a bucket, but you acted pretty darn mainstream, perhaps even over the top mainstream.

PMS or not. I would say your words were borderline abusive. Thank goodness that probably in that context they won't have that effect, because hopefully some strange lady mocking him on the playground will mean nothing to the kid. I hope.

I also really hope that there's no karmic payback.









Just next time it might be a good idea to walk away, or take a deep breath and respond to other children how you would respond to your own. Because if you think that your kid won't ever be mean, rude, or hateful--lady, you are going to have one heck of a shock one day!

I hope you do feel a little guilty. I'm guessing that you do, because why else would you post about it HERE of all places? But, so you made a mistake. Hold yourself in a little more next time. I think kids are basically flexible, and as parents (and adults) we're going to make a lot of mistakes.

Personally, though, I'd rather some stranger with a problem sharpen their claws on me, rather than my child, if they do something wrong. That's my job, to act as interference. I'm sorry that little boy's mom wasn't there to protect him.







Especially when you seem to imply that you never would have said something like that in front of his parent.


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## bendmom (Sep 4, 2003)

My son refused to go #2 in the toilet so he would occationaly wear cd out. If someone were to say something like that it would have been devistating, and even though he may have been in diapers, he could READ by 4, so I don't get how he was developmentaly behind. It was totally out of line to take your pent up frustration out on a child, and then blame it on something as lame as PMS. He said no and you did not respect him or his things. That said, there is a boy in my son's class who is insanely spoiled and his parents do not believe in saying no or not giving him everything he wants. Today he brought a toy (does this on a daily basis since his parents don't pay attention to the school rules) that the school said they didn't want anyone to have in class. I was getting ds things, and turned to see him shoving the toy in my ds face and bragging about it and then refused to let him play with it. I wanted to yell and grab the toy from him. I never have violent feelings to kids, but that kid drives me nuts. I just let it go because HE IS A PRODUCT OF HIS PARENTS. At that age you have to blame the parents, not lash out at the dc.


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## magster (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
Don't punish children on the playground because you resent your neighborhood.
Don't punish strangers' kids because your friends' kid hurt yours and you felt powerless to stop it.
Don't return a slap with a knife to the gut.
Don't punish children because their parents let them bring more toys than you think is proper, or because their parents use baby buckets.

I also really hope that there's no karmic payback.










ITA.

I think it's a pity the boy's mother didn't hear you.


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## mmace (Feb 12, 2002)

My son has PDD-NOS (autism spectrum disorder) and could very well have been that child. He didn't potty-train until four years three months, had major issues with other people touching his things, and had a hard time communicating his feelings. If you would have spoken to my child that way, I can guarantee you my mama bear instinct would have kicked in and we would have had a major confrontation. And trust me when I say that a mama with a special needs child has almost always has one heck of a mama bear lurking inside her! Speaking to someone else's child that way is not acceptable. It bothers me most that you make a point of saying you would not have done it if his mother was there - you knew it was wrong, and you chose to do it anyway.

When my boy was in preschool he was picked on. Because of his disorder, he had a hard time making friends. He had color issues, he had clothing issues, there were many things that made him stand out. The classroom had an oval shaped rug with the letters of the alphabet printed on it. The first day of school he sat on the letter Y during circle time, and thought that every day after that he should sit on the Y. At first it was no big deal, but after a while other children started sitting on the Y just so he couldn't. His entire day would be ruined if he didn't get the Y. Things like that make a child stand out. One day I got a call from his teacher, telling me that some of the other boys had started a "club". The whole purpose of the "club" was that they didn't like my son and didn't want to play with him or talk to him. I can assure you that that brought the mama bear out in me, and I would have loved to give those kids a piece of my mind, but I did not. I would never speak to another child in a cruel way, no matter how justified I felt. In my opinion, what you did to that little boy was cruel.


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

I'd say you learned two things:

1. If your child approaches another child to play (likely, because she seems very socially skilled) and they say no, don't push the issue. Take your daughter's hand and go to another part of the park, making a neutral comment like "He doesn't want to share today." If the rejection is said in an insulting way, you could add "He didn't say so very nicely."

Kids don't have a constitutional right to share another kids' toys, even if they are in a public place. Kids need to learn that they can't automatically play with other kids' stuff. And I say this as a mother whose child rarely wants to share his stuff but always wants to play with others' stuff.

2. Your daughter watched you be mean to that little boy. Irrespective of how you feel about his feelings, remember that your daughter is a witness to your behavior all the time. It likely made her feel scared to watch you be mean to another child. This is why I try very hard not to be mean to other children (or parents) in front of my child-- because of the likely affect on him. I think that kids see you be mean to someone else and they think that you could do that to them -- not that what you did was equivalent-- but that's why witnessing domestic violence is so psychologically devastating to them.

Karla


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Geez. That poor little boy. It was wrong to push him to share in the first place. You should have redirected your daughter and walked away the FIRST TIME he said that he wasn't interested in sharing. He was absolutely not obligated to share his toys, and was probably frustrated to be pushed about it. My 4 yo. would not have been nasty about it, but he would have been upset and overwhelmed if a stranger started insisting he share his toys with a baby. And yes -- she is a baby from a 4 yo. POV.

I have a child who does not like to share and needs a wide berth when it comes to personal space. I am very tired of standing in to protect him from kids who's parents teach them they have a god given right to hug him when he doesn't want to be touched, or "share" his things when he doesn't want to share. Nobody would hug a strange adult against their will or touch their things. You wouldn't walk up to me in the park and take my notebook or riffle through my bag. Even if I was spread out over a picnic table with 30 books, notebooks, and a cup of tea -- you wouldn't walk up and start picking through it. And especially not if I told you to go away. A 4 yo. child is entitled to whatever personal space they require.

That boy should have been corrected by a caregiver and helped with words that were more constructive. But what he said was not too unusual for a 4 yo. kid. They tend to say what they are feeling, you know? But I'd expect a grown woman to show more restraint. Four years old is still very little. You don't realize it when your child is a toddler. But four is barely past toddlerhood.

And as far as the child who pushed her -- well, that is sad. Perhaps you should teach her to ask before hugging someone. In order to protect her in the future. Pushing is a reflex for some kids, when they feel violated or that their space is invaded. I can see from my own children that *not* pushing and using their words instead requires a major effort.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifetapestry*
I'd say you learned two things:

1. If your child approaches another child to play (likely, because she seems very socially skilled) and they say no, don't push the issue. Take your daughter's hand and go to another part of the park, making a neutral comment like "He doesn't want to share today." If the rejection is said in an insulting way, you could add "He didn't say so very nicely."

Kids don't have a constitutional right to share another kids' toys, even if they are in a public place. Kids need to learn that they can't automatically play with other kids' stuff. And I say this as a mother whose child rarely wants to share his stuff but always wants to play with others' stuff.

2. Your daughter watched you be mean to that little boy. Irrespective of how you feel about his feelings, remember that your daughter is a witness to your behavior all the time. It likely made her feel scared to watch you be mean to another child. This is why I try very hard not to be mean to other children (or parents) in front of my child-- because of the likely affect on him. I think that kids see you be mean to someone else and they think that you could do that to them -- not that what you did was equivalent-- but that's why witnessing domestic violence is so psychologically devastating to them.

Karla

ITA.

Wow. Just Wow.

Is that how you want your dd to react when she doesn't get what she wants? Why was it so important to you to punish this little boy? Your dd will face these situations many times in the coming years, she needs guidance and reassurance.

I really think you need to think about your attitude towards other kids (and their moms) and maybe stay out of public places until you work this out.


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## Losgann (Jun 24, 2004)

Just wanted to chime in. My ds is 8 and has Asperger Syndrome. He gets picked on a lot by the other kids in the neighborhood just because they think it's fun to see him lose control, so I often have to step in and be his voice and say for him the things he doesn't know how to say. I model the correct way to handle the situation.

As a result of having an older brother on the spectrum modeling less than social behavior, my dd almost 5 often imitates him. Part of it is being a girl and she can do snotty with the best of them. And part of it is the age- she often does not want to share her things either. She doesn't want anyone to talk about them or even look at them. I'm embarrassed when she's not in the mood to share and I have to explain "I'm sorry, she doesn't want to share her toys today." but what will getting angry and fussing at her about it do? Make her defensive, upset and less likely to share next time.

You don't know this 4 year old's story. He could be autistic, have an autistic sibling, just have been tired or hungry or whatever. I think you could have handled it much better than you did in the heat of the moment, and you'll know better next time. I just wanted to let you know that older kid in diapers could have also been my ds at 6 and 7. He's 8 and making progress but he's not there yet. And you wouldn't know he's autistic just by looking at him. I have friends who tell me all the time they had no idea, he couldn't possibly be autistic because they see him at a 'good' time when he's at ease.

There are also medical conditions (encopresis for one) that could cause an older child to wear diapers. Just so you know, for next time. It's kind of silly to judge a child on whether or not he/she is normal. There is no normal. Every child is their own person and different.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moma justice*
can i play?
he said
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
don't touch my stuff you are just a little baby and you will break it all
(and his tone was anger, and he said "baby" like it was an insult)
first of all we are talking about a plastic shovel
so i walked up and said, i will help her and make sure she plays with it nicely and i won't let her be rough with it.

Ok, there is namecalling here (baby), but other than that it sounds like he is really fearful of something happening to his toys. He articulated that very clearly. His wishes should have been respected.

Taunting a child (yours or another person's child) about potty learning development is unexcusable. Would you taunt a child about being a late walker? A late talker? This is a developmental milestone like any other.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

I'm sorry if I sounded a little harsh. What I am trying to say is that your dd learns most by what you do and how you handle the situation.


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moma justice*

and i guess a big part of my fustration was that i have just moved into a VERY wealthy neighborhood, (we rent a basement apt....)

and i am just sick of these crappy moms
these are the moms who keep their babies in bucket seat all day long, dont' breast feed, have scheduled c sections just b/c, spank, and are obsessed with their kids wearing the most expensive kids clothes ever....

and these crappy moms have crappy kids.


See, now this is disturbing. This goes far deeper than just not sharing a shovel. Imagine if someone started a thread and reversed it: I took my child to a park in a POOR neighborhood, and those crappy white trash moms have crappy kids. And their CLOTHES were CHEAP, like from Goodwill.....how good would that go over? I am sure so many woudl be outraged, MDC's server would implode.

And if you just moved there, then my guess is that you have no idea how many of them actually had a scheduled c-section (not that its any of your business anyway)...and on and on.

And you know what? I buy my kids expensive clothes, and it doesnt mean i'm a bad mother. I can afford it.

And before anyone goes off the deep end because sweetbaby shops at Banana Republic and buys her lipgloss at Saks, please note that all those beautiful expensive clothes that i no longer wear, and my kids have outgrown goes straight to ARC or Goodwill (my old business suits and shoes went to Women In Distress).


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I don't think there is *anything* you could tell me about the child's mother, or her parenting style, or the general social attitudes in your neighborhood that would justify taking out your frustration on her 4 yo. child.


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## neveryoumindthere (Mar 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wolfmama*
yeah, but the kid has every right not to share toys with someone he just met.

i refuse to take our own toys to a park because it just leads to problems.

so he used baby as an insult, and then you turn around and use ut as an insult.

so, obviously you know NOTHING positive was created for that poor child or yours. if you had said that to my child i would have felt like slapping you...

what would i have done? probably after the first refusal, and definately after the second, i would have redirected my child to another area of the playground. if the ages had been closer, i would possibly have tried to get them to cooperate.

what she said.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetbaby3*
See, now this is disturbing. This goes far deeper than just not sharing a shovel. Imagine if someone started a thread and reversed it: I took my child to a park in a POOR neighborhood, and those crappy white trash moms have crappy kids. And their CLOTHES were CHEAP, like from Goodwill.....how good would that go over? I am sure so many woudl be outraged, MDC's server would implode.

And if you just moved there, then my guess is that you have no idea how many of them actually had a scheduled c-section (not that its any of your business anyway)...and on and on.

.


Well said.


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

"and i guess a big part of my fustration was that i have just moved into a VERY wealthy neighborhood, (we rent a basement apt....)

and i am just sick of these crappy moms
these are the moms who keep their babies in bucket seat all day long, dont' breast feed, have scheduled c sections just b/c, spank, and are obsessed with their kids wearing the most expensive kids clothes ever....

and these crappy moms have crappy kids.

period

so if you are saying things like, if this were my kid etc.....
i will just tell you that this is not your kid, this kid would never be your kid, if it were, you would not be here on MDC thinking about being a good mom."


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## Oh the Irony (Dec 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetbaby3*
See, now this is disturbing. This goes far deeper than just not sharing a shovel. Imagine if someone started a thread and reversed it: I took my child to a park in a POOR neighborhood, and those crappy white trash moms have crappy kids. And their CLOTHES were CHEAP, like from Goodwill.....how good would that go over? I am sure so many woudl be outraged, MDC's server would implode.

And if you just moved there, then my guess is that you have no idea how many of them actually had a scheduled c-section (not that its any of your business anyway)...and on and on.

very well said.

moma justice, i have to say your second post makes the situation worse, not better.


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## Oh the Irony (Dec 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moma justice*
so if you are saying things like, if this were my kid etc.....
i will just tell you that this is not your kid, this kid would never be your kid, if it were, you would not be here on MDC thinking about being a good mom.

*and IMO, it is a bad sign if your 4.5 year old is still in diapers, every thing i have read about EC shows me that is just not normal or ok.*


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moma justice*
yes it was the wrong way to do it...
and my major concern is that the boy might be a high functioning autistic or other that would make him so unable to be polite and/or still be in diapers
that would make me feel real bad

So if he was a "typical" kid would you still feel bad for your behavior?

but just to clarify, he had about 25 toys with him (i am not kidding his mom carried over 3 big mop pails of toys, trucks, shovels, guys, all sorts of stuff)
so it was not like my dd was going for the one lovey or prized truck.

It doesn't matter how many toys he had with him they are his toys to share or not share with your daughter.

and she did not even touch his stuff with out asking, he just heard her ask and freaked out, and when he freaked out, he did so with this tone of hatred, that just cut righ through as i watched dd's reaction....it was so sad!

Maybe you could have told your daughter that he didn't want to share his toys with her that day and walked away at that point. It's not like every child is going to share their toys with your daughter when she asks.

the mom did not hear him OR me because she was way over onthe other side of the playground talking to another mom while her 4.5 year old was playing and her new born was in a bucket car seat on the gound in the sun....so she was not so tuned in...
and yes, i would not have said it quite like that if she had been able to hear me, so i did take advantage of that, not on purpose but i had watched her walk away before dd even came near his stuff...so i did know she was gone...

I would say if you would not have reacted this way in front of mom then you did react the way you did on purpose. You knew there was noone there to protect this little boy from the venom coming out of your mouth, so you it seems you reacted this way very much on purpose.

and i guess a big part of my fustration was that i have just moved into a VERY wealthy neighborhood, (we rent a basement apt....)
and i am just sick of these crappy moms
these are the moms who keep their babies in bucket seat all day long, dont' breast feed, have scheduled c sections just b/c, spank, and are obsessed with their kids wearing the most expensive kids clothes ever....
and these crappy moms have crappy kids.

period

Wow I have no words at all for this comment. Talk about lumping everyone into a neat little stereotypical box. so if

you are saying things like, if this were my kid etc.....
i will just tell you that this is not your kid, this kid would never be your kid, if it were, you would not be here on MDC thinking about being a good mom.

My kids have been known to be rude to little kids your daughter's age. They have never called them names, but they have been known to refuse to share with a baby before. I am still a good mom with very typical kids who don't always know the PC way to address their thoughts.

and IMO, it is a bad sign if your 4.5 year old is still in diapers, every thing i have read about EC shows me that is just not normal or ok.

This is one of the comments that bothers me the most. My oldest wasn't potty trained until about 4.5 and my youngest will be 4 on June 2. He isn't potty trained either. They have no delays or developmental problems, they just aren't there yet. Every kid is different and the lack of potty training is just one more accomplishment for them to eventually achieve. I have two other kids who potty trained at 2.5 and on my other son on his 3 birthday. Maybe this little boy has trouble when he is wearing clothes reading the cues of his body. My almost four year old is like this. He will go accident free all day if he is naked, put him in clothes and he had a lot of trouble reading the cues of his body. We will typically put him in a pull-up or plastic covered training pants for trips out, especially to a park where there may not be a bathroom or he will be distracted.so

thanks for everyone being so polite, i still am kind of shocked at myself for saying it, that is so unlike me to be that way with children...i have been a nanny, teacher, and have a lot of exp with special needs kids.

Again the special needs assumption.









but i guess my whole take on things has changed now that i am a mom.
and she does not have the ability to stand up for herself...she is only 1.5 years old.

You need to model the way you want her to stand up for herself and realize she is listening and taking in everything you say or do.

and to make it worse, yesterday, she tried to hug a frined's son (who is 3.5) and he pushed her down it broke her heart.

Teach her to ask before she goes into someone's personal space. Not every child wants to have people near them. Out of my four kids, Seth was my hugger and we worked very hard for at least six months to teach him to be respectful of people's personal space. Madi doesn't mind hugs from kids or anyone else for that matter. Zach and Nich do not, under any circumstance, like for anyone to hug them without asking first. It all about respecting other people's space and how they want to be treated.

so that is my whole story (that and i am PMSing)

I really don't get what the PMSing thing has to do with anything. If you get crankier when you are PMSing then you should be extra careful to watch what your activities are when you have less patience.

thanks again for the gentle support and advice....i needed some feedback!

My advice would be to apologize to the little boy and his mother (if you see them again) and to also apologize to your daughter for your behavior. Let her know you were wrong to call him names and make him feel bad.


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## Foobar (Dec 15, 2002)

Mama Justice-

I think you took out your resentment of the neighborhood out on this little boy.

I would leave my 4 year old alone with her toys at the park (when she gets to 4). I would walk away and let her play within eyesight. She likes her space.
I don't think I am an unattentive mama for that.

You are making some pretty large assumptions on the mother of this child. Do you see her spank this boy? Did you see her carry him in a bucket seat? Did you see her C-section scar? It sounds like you have been trying hard to fit into a new area and it is backfiring on you because of your AP ways and you are making sweeping judgments and assumptions on your whole community.

I honestly think the best way to deal with this is explain to your child that you messed up at the park and said something nasty to that boy when you shouldn't have. Teach your daughter how to step up and accept responsibility.

And my almost 3 year old was doing great on the potty, until she had 4 accidents at daycare and the teacher told us IN FRONT OF HER. "I don't think she is ready. I am getting so frustrated that she wets her pants. She can't do this yet". She was 2years 3 months at the time. She has REFUSED potty since and is just starting to show interest again. Making such a harsh comment to a child is detrimental to their development.


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

This thread actually bothered me all night (well, what part of the night I got to sleep :LOL ).







I feel sad for the boy.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

I just wanted to add that I EC'd Abi from ages 6-12 mos. and she was the perfect EC baby during that time. She signaled and had control and everything. But at 12 mos. old she started walking and no longer wanted to EC. She did not give up diapers until she was 3 years 8 mos. old. She was sounding out words before she was out of diapers.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Quote:

looked at him and said
well you are the one that is still in diapers!
she can pee and poop in the potty and you still pee and poop in your pants, like a baby
and she at least has some manners unlike you.
come on dd, we don't want to play with that mean little boy, he is just acts like a baby!
I am torn between being very angry and profoundly sad at your reaction to that little boy. I was even more shocked to read that you would not have reacted that way if the mom was in earshot which means your were purposely shaming this child.

I just fired my caregiver for being verbally abusive to my son. What you said to this child falls right into the same category for the reasons I fired her. A 4 year old should not ever be called names or be shamed by an adult!!

And what did your daughter learn from this? I can't even imagine the look on her face to see her mother taunting a small child. I am dealing with the after affect of having someone shame and yell at my son.

I think wolfmama and sweetbaby3 were more articulate than I can be but I think their points about this being deeper than the fact a 4 year old wouldn't share his toys was right on the money.


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## townmouse (May 3, 2004)

Poor little boy.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Are you sure how guilty you feel yet? Are you now fully aware of how wrong you were? Because IMO you do not need to be helped to feel like less of a b*tch. IMO what you did is worse than spanking.

IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THAT LITTLE BOY HAD SPECIAL NEEDS OR NOT.

As much as you and your dd were hurt by his 1st comment and as much as I would have been embarrased if he was my dc it was pretty normal for a kid his age. You caused the 2nd comment by your lack of respect for his boundries. I want you to understand that there is NO EXCUSE for what you did to him- NONE, and you really seem to be trying to justify it.

What you did could have long reaching consequences for that little boy, I know it would for my dd, and you need to appologize to both he and his mother if you are ever given the opportunity. He may be taking out his anger and hurt on other children or internalizing the shame. I will go as far as to say you should search him out and let him know that what you did to him was wrong and that he did not deserve it.

I am appalled that you seem to think that the children of mainstream parents are somehow less worthy than children of AP parents. They are ALL children and, as it has been pointed out, you seem to have an unrealistic idea of the behavior of all children that age INCLUDING CHILDREN RAISED BY AP PARENTS.

SET AN EXAMPLE, STOP JUSTIFYING, AND OWN UP TO YOUR BAD BEHAVIOR!


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Okay I haven't read all the posts. I imagine there has been a lot to say. But my 1st reaction after reading your story....








:














:














:














:

Seriously? You were a little over the top. But funny? oh yeah!


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## Oh the Irony (Dec 14, 2003)

funny to mock a child wearing a diaper??? can you explain the humour to me???


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## juicylucy (May 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess*








:














:














:














:

Seriously? You were a little over the top. But funny? oh yeah!

Odd that, because I can usually see the funny side of things, but I TOTALLY fail to see anything funny in her humiliating this poor kid. I have a four year old son, and would have committed an un-AP act myself if I had heard her spew such venim on my child.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess*







:














:














:














:

Seriously? You were a little over the top. But funny? oh yeah!


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## BklynJen (Mar 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess*
Okay I haven't read all the posts. I imagine there has been a lot to say. But my 1st reaction after reading your story....








:














:














:














:

Seriously? You were a little over the top. But funny? oh yeah!

AG, are you serious? You think that shaming a child for behaving like a child is funny? We are talking about a four year old little boy.

JuicyLucy, I have to say that I agree with you. I would have to call on all of my internal resources to be able to be gentle with someone who would ever dare speak to my DS that way.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Just a friendly reminder. Please refrain from:

Quote:

Posting in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, namecalling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

I hope the OP does return, both to the thread and MDC. I also hope she realizes how unrealistic her expectations are and how wrong her behavior was. Repent, make reparations to injured parties, move on with new knowledge and understanding.


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## BklynJen (Mar 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PoppyMama*
I hope the OP does return, both to the thread and MDC. I also hope she realizes how unrealistic her expectations are and how wrong her behavior was. Repent, make reparations to injured parties, move on with new knowledge and understanding.

Very well said, Poppy. I agree.


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## L.J. (Nov 20, 2001)

When I've experienced things like that with other children, I try to look at it from a different perspective.

You said the little boy's mom had a newborn. It could be that he is having difficulty adjusting to life with a new babe and feels left out. He was expressing his anger about "babies" to your child. It really had nothing to do with your child, it was about him and his feelings. I think these things are a good opportunity to remind your child that regardless of what others say or think about us, we need to feel good about ourselves and know who we are inside. None of us will ever be able to stop the entire world from saying or doing hurtful things to us or our children, so the best we can do is give our child the tools to deal with these experiences.

I don't think your comments were as much about the little boy as an expression of something you have felt yourself. Maybe there have been times in your life when you've felt mistreated and didn't know how to deal with it. You may have projected that onto both your daughter and your comments to the little boy. These things happen all the time in playgrounds, playgroups, schools etc. If this is an issue for you, maybe this is an opportunity for you to learn and grow and therefore be able to show your little one a different way to handle things.

As for the "rich and crappy neighbours" maybe they are all scared too. Maybe they don't know how to approach someone new. Maybe they feel inadequate in ways and therefore make choices because they want to fit in.

We are all just trying to find our place in the world and figure out who we are.

If you still have emotion and thoughts about this, I'd suggest looking at it more and use it as an opportunity to heal past wounds and grow.


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## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

ok
i did not mean to make anyone freak out
i did not.
my "second post" was all about me thinking and reflecting about WHY i would sanp at a little boy like that
that was the wrost thing i have ever said to a child and i have worked with children who hae armed robbery records...

and so please don't think that i sat there and thought:
he won't let my daughter play with his millions of toys, hmm i have these SUV soccer moms who are more concerned about designer clothes than their children

that IS NOT what happened

i snapped
then i felt bewildered came home and wrote first post righ taway...
title I LOST MY TEMPER>>>>>>

now
my biggest concern was the special needs thing....

not my only concern

and i DO know about the typical parenting practices of my new neighborhood
because
i listen to the moms talk to each other about all of the things i listed (including the mom in question.)
who brought her child right into the middle of a swarm of toddlers at the toddler section of the playground, put her baby on the groudn in the sun in her bucket seat, and went off to have a conversation...that still had not ended when i had packed up my stuff and walked half way down the street)

i am not looking for an excuse
i am just letting everyone who feels a personal hurt about this
that those are the rest of the facts

i came here to talk it out
yes it makes me sad that i snapped
i was thinking through to you all why i did it.
i am very hormonal right now and stressed due to the move
and i am very offended with the over all culture of my new home

and i am sad that i could have hurt that little boy's feelings, or that worse, i did not b/c he is so used to being spoken to with hatred and disrespect...(which is more of the case from what i saw from his mother)

and i did not premeditate the fact that she was out of earshot....
but when i looked back at what had happened that was something that i knew.

so i am sorry it i hurt anyone's feelings and i should say something to dd about being more polite and graceful even when someone hurts your feelings.

and i swear to you, not that some will be open to hearing this,
but that interaction was not the sum of my parenting or social skills.

i was just sticking up for my dd and at the end of my rope.
not correct

and i have been to the park twice since then and have had no problmes not yelling at kids
so i think it IS safe to leave the house....just so you know

but feel free to keep on saying whatever little things you want
and i will keep reading them

i just don't feel as guilty as some of you think i should i guess

and i do not want bad karma....and i do feel guilty, just not utterly ashamed.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BklynJen*
AG, are you serious? You think that shaming a child for behaving like a child is funny? We are talking about a four year old little boy.

JuicyLucy, I have to say that I agree with you. I would have to call on all of my internal resources to be able to be gentle with someone who would ever dare speak to my DS that way.










Okay no, I don't think that shaming a child, or the behavior itself was funny. But yes, when I read the post I almost spit my coffee out. I laughed so hard, at the lunacy of it. When my DP tells the story of how he and a friend stole a car in Las Vegas just to impress 2 girls some 15 plus years ago, I laugh at that too. It was wrong in so many ways, but the way they tell it is freakin' hillarious. Punchline that they never got laid is even funnier.

If I had seen a mom behave this way at the park, I'm sure I would have reacted differently.


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## Seasons (Jun 10, 2004)

OP, you've gotten plenty of commentary on your own comment, so I won't add to that discussion. I'll go here:

Quote:

even better tell me if you have ever siad something mean to someone else's child
You betcha!

REGULARLY, I mean practically every time we're at the playground/funcenter/park, so almost daily, some 4-5year-old will come to us and start demanding "watch me watch me watch me" or something similar, really insistently and loudly. Often the kid adds, "she [my daughter, whom I'm cheering on] can't do that as well as I can, watch ME!"

I don't know if the kids do this because I'm playing more actively that their moms are, or because it's a stage that all/most older preschoolers go through (to be so demanding of strangers), but it annoys the bejeepers out of me. I refuse to give those kids attention; I don't want to reward their annoying insistence, and it would take away from whatever game I'm playing, one-on-one, with my toddler. (If time and my attention permits, I WILL respond to a non-snotty request by another child.) So I just ignore them, which apparently drives them crazy because they keep up the "look at me" business for quite a while afterward. Oh, well. Not my problem.

So I'm a big meanie who rolls my eyes at the "it takes a village" theory. My kid is well-parented because I choose to give her full attention, including at the playground. The other kids are the responsibility of THEIR parents.

Betcha I get some of the flames intended for OP...


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## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *L.J.*
When I've experienced things like that with other children, I try to look at it from a different perspective.

You said the little boy's mom had a newborn. It could be that he is having difficulty adjusting to life with a new babe and feels left out. He was expressing his anger about "babies" to your child. It really had nothing to do with your child, it was about him and his feelings. I think these things are a good opportunity to remind your child that regardless of what others say or think about us, we need to feel good about ourselves and know who we are inside. None of us will ever be able to stop the entire world from saying or doing hurtful things to us or our children, so the best we can do is give our child the tools to deal with these experiences.

I don't think your comments were as much about the little boy as an expression of something you have felt yourself. Maybe there have been times in your life when you've felt mistreated and didn't know how to deal with it. You may have projected that onto both your daughter and your comments to the little boy. These things happen all the time in playgrounds, playgroups, schools etc. If this is an issue for you, maybe this is an opportunity for you to learn and grow and therefore be able to show your little one a different way to handle things.

As for the "rich and crappy neighbours" maybe they are all scared too. Maybe they don't know how to approach someone new. Maybe they feel inadequate in ways and therefore make choices because they want to fit in.

We are all just trying to find our place in the world and figure out who we are.

If you still have emotion and thoughts about this, I'd suggest looking at it more and use it as an opportunity to heal past wounds and grow.

i think we posted at the same time, i did not read your post until i had written mine,
but i wanted to say
thank you!
what you said was the whole truth of it.
wow!
kind
correct
and well spoken.

it is about me being hurt and not being able to stand up for myself, esp. as a child
wanting her to be protected by me and come out on top, so to speak
THANK YOU
that brings me to tears
and that is why i posted here about it
looking for answers reflections and i guess support.
and i guess i don't feel overwhemingly guilty (yet)
b/c i am still so determined to protect my dd at all costs
as i was not protected...
but i did not realize this until
LJ's post
thank you for your very important insight


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moma justice*
ok
she walked up to him and said his name and smiled and his mom wondered over to another side of the playground and my dd pointed at his toys
and said
can i play?
he said
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
don't touch my stuff you are just a little baby and you will break it all
(and his tone was anger, and he said "baby" like it was an insult)
first of all we are talking about a plastic shovel
so i walked up and said, i will help her and make sure she plays with it nicely and i won't let her be rough with it.

and he looked at me like he hated us and said
don't let that baby touch my things, she is just a dumb baby...now go away!!!!!!!!!!


Sorry, but I think this was out of line here. If a stranger came up to you and asked you to lend him your car, you probably wouldn't because you'd be afraid he'd break it or not return it. Right? Why was this kid wrong in not wanting someone else to play with his toys? If they were "community toys" (e.g., toys for everyone to play with), he _would_ have been wrong, but here he wasn't.

To put adult pressure on him was not fair, IMHO. He shouldn't be pressured to give up the use of what is his own. If a police officer came up to you and asked you to give up your car for awhile and said he would drive it nicely and not be rough with it, you might do it -- but feel like you'd been muscled into this moment. Right?

I totally agree that what he said was rude and rudely said too, though.

Quote:

so i snapped
it hurt my dd's feelings so much
she was so sweet and polite
so
i looked at him and said
well you are the one that is still in diapers!
she can pee and poop in the potty and you still pee and poop in your pants, like a baby
and she at least has some manners unlike you.
come on dd, we don't want to play with that mean little boy, he is just acts like a baby!

i can not even tell you why or how it cam eout of my mouth
i know i am hormonal right now, but that was pretty bad.
Yeah, that was pretty bad. What went wrong there, hon? Wow, it sounded like that really touched a nerve in you. I've found with me, that stuff which REALLY touches nerves come from old wounds of mine -- moments in my past where someone (for example) has made me feel like a real baby or has excluded me or made me feel worthless.

Quote:

so tell me what you would have done
or even better tell me if you have ever siad something mean to someone else's child
so that i feel like less of a b*tch
Have you thought about why what this little boy said touched such a nerve? Maybe looking at the causes would help you. FWIW, I have thought about saying mean things to other people's children and have come really, really close to it, especially where protecting my daughter is concerned. The thing is, I can feel rising up in me this fierce anger -- the offending child starts to represent all the tormentors I had to deal with as a kid myself, which isn't really fair to the offending child -- hey, half the time, they don't realize the impact of what they're doing or saying. Sorry this happened...


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moma justice*
and i guess a big part of my fustration was that i have just moved into a VERY wealthy neighborhood, (we rent a basement apt....)

and i am just sick of these crappy moms
these are the moms who keep their babies in bucket seat all day long, dont' breast feed, have scheduled c sections just b/c, spank, and are obsessed with their kids wearing the most expensive kids clothes ever....

and these crappy moms have crappy kids.

period

Moma j., is there any way you folks can move out of that hood? I know what you're saying -- I used to work and live near the kind of 'hood you're talking about. Lots of McMansions, rude drivers in Lexuses and Hummers pushing people all over the road, general snottiness, et cetera, and it made me very unhappy because I confess to some real problems with class and wealth.

As much as I would like to believe that my approach to material goods is one of serene refusal to become entangled in worldly goods (insert Buddhist temple music here), it's really that I'm not rich and am trying to put a good spin on things, at least in part. Rich people bug the cr*p out of me, basically, and make me feel horridly inadequate and lame -- yeah, like I did when I was a kid and didn't have the cool clothes and goodies other kids did because my mom was going through a divorce and had no money.

Sounds like this may be a similar situation for you. Just a guess.


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## L.J. (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moma justice*
THANK YOU
that brings me to tears
and that is why i posted here about it
looking for answers reflections and i guess support.
and i guess i don't feel overwhemingly guilty (yet)
b/c i am still so determined to protect my dd at all costs
as i was not protected...
but i did not realize this until
LJ's post
thank you for your very important insight

I'm glad that what I wrote helped you. I think part of the "gift" of raising our children is that we get more insight into ourselves and opportunities to heal old wounds.
I hope you find some ways to grow from the experience and offer a better way for your child to handle these situations in her life.


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## mmace (Feb 12, 2002)

Just another quick thought - do you think maybe the little boy reacted that way to your daughter because his mother has told him to keep his toys away from their baby? Maybe he had a habit of piling all of his toys on top of the baby in the carseat or putting all of his stuffed animals into the baby's crib (my oldest always did things like this - she wanted to "share" with her baby brother). Or maybe mom is looking ahead to the time when baby will be putting everything into his/her mouth, so she is teaching her son now that the baby can't play with big brother's toys....


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

I have to say, that if I ever heard an adult talk to my kids like that, I would lose it in a big way. Just something to consider. That kind of stuff brings out my Mama bear.

charmarty; who's dd's are 4.7 and are in pull ups still for BM's.


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## nycapmom (Jan 30, 2005)

There have been enough flames so I won't go there (even though the lesser part of me would certainly like to flame you) I would just say that it *is* perfectly normal for a 4yo (or 4.5yo) to be in diapers. I know it was in fashion 30yrs ago or so, to browbeat a kid into going on the potty. That lead to all kinds of intestinal and emotional issues.

It is also perfectly normal for a 4yo to nurse. I have one to prove it


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

I just wanted to add something about "losing your temper"....

I have to admit that I don't always keep my temper well with dd. But, while I may get louder and madder, I *stop* at saying hurtful things: namecalling, insulting, attacking, etc.

What I am saying is, in this situation, there is a big difference between getting angry and saying "You may not call my dd names! She is not a baby and she is not dumb! And you are being rude!" and taunting him for using diapers and calling him a mean little boy who acts like a baby. The former is less than ideal, but it expresses emotion without actually attacking character. The latter is a just an attack.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama*
What I am saying is, in this situation, there is a big difference between getting angry and saying "You may not call my dd names! She is not a baby and she is not dumb! And you are being rude!" and taunting him for using diapers and calling him a mean little boy who acts like a baby. The former is less than ideal, but it expresses emotion without actually attacking character. The latter is a just an attack.


well said!!


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama*
I just wanted to add something about "losing your temper"....

I have to admit that I don't always keep my temper well with dd. But, while I may get louder and madder, I *stop* at saying hurtful things: namecalling, insulting, attacking, etc.

What I am saying is, in this situation, there is a big difference between getting angry and saying "You may not call my dd names! She is not a baby and she is not dumb! And you are being rude!" and taunting him for using diapers and calling him a mean little boy who acts like a baby. The former is less than ideal, but it expresses emotion without actually attacking character. The latter is a just an attack.


ITA


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

This thread is a good example of why I try not to judge the parenting of anyone whose child is older than mine. (Okay I try not to judge anybody's parenting, but yk....)

Really really, moms of toddlers who are annoyed by the "preschoolers" at the park, you're gonna feel mighty silly one day when it's your kid. For all you think they are the "big kids" trust me (mom of 4.5 year old and 10 month old) they are really really little.

I'm so glad the kids at your playground aren't scared of strangers at 4 and 5. Someone is doing a great job parenting them to feel that a mommy-stranger would care enough to speak to them and enjoy their play!

Remember if their parents are following the best advice to protect them, they've told them to go to "a mommy or someone who looks like a mommy" if they are in trouble.

Moma Justice: it looks like you've been given a tremendous opportunity to grow through some old pain. It may give some meaning to the pain you caused that little boy if you use it to heal your pain now.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Chfriend-









It always disturbs me a little when I see AP mamas taking such care with their own dc but feeling so little for the other children. I see so many posts where parents (rightly) demand respect and consideration from others towards their dc but then don't seem model that themselves.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Your assumptions and your actions were wrong on so many different levels.

Several pp noted that new mamas seem to have a warped perspective of older children. As many people have said 4 years old is still _little_; you expected a child, not much more than a baby himself, to respond with the maturity of an adult. Then you, in turn, responded with the maturity--and impulsive cruelty--of a four-year-old. Difference is, you should be old enough to know better. You should be old enough to control your impulses and to use words appropriately. You're certainly old enough to know that words hurt. And you're obviously old enough to use words to justify yourself...and to convince yourself that what you said wasn't really that bad.

It was that bad.

I do think you were taking out your resentment and frustrations on the child, but that's no excuse. In truth, that's what bullies do. They choose someone smaller and weaker and attack. And in their minds, it's usually justified. Or at least minimized. You have successfully minimized your actions to yourself. You seem to understand at some level that you were wrong, but you don't seem to grasp to what extent.

Maybe when your daughter, the one you feel you were justified in protecting so harshly, is four years old, you'll understand. Maybe when an older child bullies her, or when, heaven forbid, another adult speaks to her with as much venom as you used, you might have some idea what you did.


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## juicylucy (May 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Missy*
Your assumptions and your actions were wrong on so many different levels.

Several pp noted that new mamas seem to have a warped perspective of older children. As many people have said 4 years old is still _little_; you expected a child, not much more than a baby himself, to respond with the maturity of an adult. Then you, in turn, responded with the maturity--and impulsive cruelty--of a four-year-old. Difference is, you should be old enough to know better. You should be old enough to control your impulses and to use words appropriately. You're certainly old enough to know that words hurt. And you're obviously old enough to use words to justify yourself...and to convince yourself that what you said wasn't really that bad.

It was that bad.

I do think you were taking out your resentment and frustrations on the child, but that's no excuse. In truth, that's what bullies do. They choose someone smaller and weaker and attack. And in their minds, it's usually justified. Or at least minimized. You have successfully minimized your actions to yourself. You seem to understand at some level that you were wrong, but you don't seem to grasp to what extent.

Maybe when your daughter, the one you feel you were justified in protecting so harshly, is four years old, you'll understand. Maybe when an older child bullies her, or when, heaven forbid, another adult speaks to her with as much venom as you used, you might have some idea what you did.

well said.


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## lula (Feb 26, 2003)

what would you do if someone said this to your child when she acted with a bit of an extreme attitude at the park?

I say this because it will happen, someday your dd will likely act inapropriately toward some other child, who may be much smaller than her.
If another parent said something like this to her? how would you react? I know my gut reaction and it isn't very pretty.

I am sorry but all the crap about rich people etc etc just makes me gag. It seems like your personal issues (which hey we all have) are coming through in a major way. I would deal with these before your dd picks up on them. (and yes I have my own issues to work out so...)

It is sure to be interesting the next time you run into that little boy at the park.

lula


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lula*

It is sure to be interesting the next time you run into that little boy at the park.

lula


I hope like hell she takes the high road and apologises to the poor kid.


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lula*

It is sure to be interesting the next time you run into that little boy at the park.

lula


I hope like hell she takes the high road and apologizes to the poor kid.


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## Willowrose (Jan 24, 2005)

Quote:

so if you are saying things like, if this were my kid etc.....
i will just tell you that this is not your kid, this kid would never be your kid, if it were, you would not be here on MDC thinking about being a good mom
The fact is, this boy *could* be mine. He could be any one of ours. We are not in control of what our children say. I think his behavior was completely NORMAL for a 4 year old. Whether autistic, special needs, or typical.

Quote:

so i am sorry it i hurt anyone's feelings and i should say something to dd about being more polite and graceful even when someone hurts your feelings.

and i swear to you, not that some will be open to hearing this,
but that interaction was not the sum of my parenting or social skills.
I just wondered, if you truly feel that you are sorry, will you apologize to this child if you see him at the park again? Will you own up to your actions and express your sincere apologies to his mother?

Also, you say that this incident is not the sum of your parenting and social skills.....I believe you are being truthful, but don't you also think that what you are seeing from some of these mothers might not be the sum of their parenting as well? You are critisizing mothers who have money as being "crappy" parents, when not one of these mothers acted to a child the way _you_ did.

Quote:

i was just sticking up for my dd and at the end of my rope.
And you made sure there was no one to stick up for this boy on his end of the rope.

I really don't want to flame you. Honestly. But, you are giving excuses to justify the _exact_ behavior of anger that you didn't approve of in this boy. And yet, you are an adult.
I really don't think there was any reason---PMS, adjusting to the move, bad day, etc...that could justify your behavior.


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## GranoLLLy-girl (Mar 1, 2005)

I am just curious why you (the OP) would choose such an area to live in if you knew that you wouldn't be compatible with the environment? It's as if you are setting yourself up for failure if you are already judging others around you and hate your living conditions.

And why is it that you assume that if a person has money that they can't be AP? That really bugs me...and sweet-3 said that best.
There are some of us who have money (and maybe even lots and lots of it) who are AP because the parenting _choice_ feels right--which doesn't mean that we have to give up our bank accounts. Some of us can still be LLL leaders and have our kids' educations already paid for! What on earth is wrong with that?
It just means that we are either older, or have planned longer, or were born into a little money. That's it--it has nothing to do with parenting _style_. PERIOD. And lots and lots of people with money do really really good things with that money--like host children from third world countries, give generously to shelters and are not wasteful or harmful to the earth or to animals/other living creatures. Money isn't always evil.

While you are glad that a few posters have helped you heal childhood wounds, you have (most likely) created childhood wounds for someone else.
And that makes your injury to that child just as bad as the ones you are healing from.

I think your original post and your own responses say a lot about what you expect from the world moreso than anything else. You seem to have a sense of entitlement (you expected this child to give up his toys for your child, etc., your judgments on the other mothers around you), and that's not the way the world works.

I'm sorry if that makes you feel bad, but no one ever handed out "fair play" books to _any of us_ at birth--and it's our job as adults to do the best we can in all situations to rectify that--which includes when others treat us poorly because of our social status, or are cruel to our children-- or even when the weather doesn't go our way and we've planned for months for an outside wedding. And if we can't do that, then we certainly have no business passing our poor attitudes and our sense of entitlement down to our children because we are just making the world a little harder to live in for them.

I hope you can make this situation right--good luck to you.


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## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

i NEVER said that rich peopel are bad parents
ever
that is your issue not mine
and for all of you who are freaking out like i did some kind of life long damage, i think you need to
take a deep breath
get off the computer.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moma justice*
i NEVER said that rich peopel are bad parents
ever
that is your issue not mine
and for all of you who are freaking out like i did some kind of life long damage, i think you need to
take a deep breath
get off the computer.

Wow. Denial is harsh.

Did you _not_ say "well you are the one that is still in diapers!
she can pee and poop in the potty and you still pee and poop in your pants, like a baby" to a *4-year-old*?!??!?! And _you_ are the adult?!

You said yourself that you didn't know exactly how wrong you were...and here you have 5 pages telling you exactly how wrong you were and why you were wrong and what you should have done differently...and you're still able to point fingers at everyone else??







You owe that child an apology!


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

This thread has been closed due to personal attacking


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