# Hubby won't let me deliver at a birthing center



## HeathenMommy (Nov 5, 2007)

My happy, wonderful marriage is going to survive this, but Hubby and I are at lagerheads and we have 6 more months to go!

He's got a 22yo son who was delivered via C-Section. Hubby is VERY pro C-section. I am a competitive athlete who has the body to have a healthy baby and we live in Metro DC! The birthing center I want to use is 15 minutes away from the nearest hospital and they'll let me deliver how I see fit! (choir preaching - I know.)

I don't want the iv in my hand so there's quick access to my veins. I don't want to wear a baby monitor. I don't want to be stuck in "stranded turtle" position, I don't know that I want drugs... I don't know enough to commit myself to the hospital. Oh- and I'd sooner take PCP-laced crack than Pitocin!

We talked to my OB who swore I can walk around and kneel and squat to my heart's delight and that I won't be harassed with interference options, but isn't that what she'd usually say anyhow? Why would she justify my fears before I'm in labor?

I watched the trailer to "Business of Being Born" with Hubby and he's sworn that I've been reading "alarmist and extreme" pap that's got me fearing hospitals wrongly. Hospitals, says Hubby, are the safest places to be. We are as opposed as night and day. He wants to put his foot down, but he's been reminded that this is MY BODY and it's ultimately MY DECISION. I hate this fight, so here's the compromise he offered. If I can find an MD (not PhD) who delivered her baby at home or in a birthing center, he'll stop fighting me. But he's assured that despite my youth, health and all signs pointing to go that something will go wrong and this baby won't make it.

And men hate it when you call them histrionic!

Help. Please. We were doing so well.


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## Veritaserum (Apr 24, 2004)

Tell your dh that when _he's_ the one giving birth, he can pick how to do it.









My dh was outright opposed to home birth when I first brought it up. That didn't deter me from continuing my research. What finally made him comfortable enough to support me was interviewing a midwife. She answered all of his "what if" questions.


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## Beppie (Oct 24, 2005)

I also feel that it is YOUR body, your decision to make about where you are comfortable giving birth.

As an example, my dh also wasn't too keen on homebirth, but in the end he conceded, if it was what I wanted, then we would do it. And thankfully he's been so good about not bringing up the extra money we're paying in order to have the birth I really want. (since insurance covers hospital birth here but not homebirth with a lay midwife.)

It's not your husband who's going to birth this baby. Why is he so pro-cesarean? Sure, men's bellys aren't being cut open, women's are! I think it's odd he has such a positive opinion of them.


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## paphia (Jun 22, 2007)

Personally, I wouldn't play games with him. I would present the information to him of why I want to birth in the birthing center, and if he wants to believe that all the facts are really just "alarmist" propaganda then there really isn't much else to be done about it. Really, if my husband were trying to force to me birth in a place that caused me fear, he wouldn't be invited to the birth.

I understand that this is his child as well as yours, and that your marriage deserves the effort of trying to work things out, but until he is willing to approach your birthing options with an open mind, I would put more energy into protecting my birthing rights and less in trying to "convert" him. You can contact some midwives, doulas or child birth educators in your area and arrange to have them discuss his issues. He can learn about statistics regarding the speed of emergency transport for c-section and the timing and chances for survival vs. being in-hospital for birth.

But really, to believe that it is safest to be in a hospital? The statistics just don't support that belief. Even my mom, an RN, who was adamantly against me having an out-of-hospital birth, had to admit a month ago that the CDC statistics show it is safer to have a homebirth with a midwife than to be in a hospital to give birth. I'd really be taking a stand on this one, or telling him it's not open for discussion unless he actually wants to get educated and look at the facts.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Well, I say he can be pro-c/s when he lives in the body that has major abdominal surgery.









Seriously, tell him AFTER he does all the research then he can have a vote. It doesn't sound like he knows much about birth, to tell you how to do it is rather presumpteous.

I highly recommend Pushed: The Painful Truth About Childbirth and Modern Maternity Care and The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth.

Like the pp said, my dh came around after meeting the midwife and asking his questions. Now he's quite pro-homebirth and is supporting my journey to become a midwife myself.


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## Kitten (Jan 10, 2005)

Quote:

I hate this fight, so here's the compromise he offered. If I can find an MD (not PhD) who delivered her baby at home or in a birthing center, he'll stop fighting me.
Here ya go hon. Fighting all over







You win.

http://www.madisonbirthcenter.com/family18.asp

and:

http://www.fammed.wisc.edu/directory?id=8472

And yes, Dorothy "Jill" Mallory is a real M.D. We have personally seen her as clients at the Wingra Clinic. And the Madison Birth Center is a real, independent, free-standing birthing center, not affiliated or attached to a hospital.

Enjoy your birth center/home birth.


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## Maluhia (Jun 24, 2007)

Has he even gone to your *awesome* birth center?

I am proud of you for standing up for your rights on this - it is YOUR healthy body that will be birthing. And yeah, my OB said all the same stuff - if they were there for anything other than catching I *might* believe them - but you'd have to get that from every possible L&D on-call and nurse and it WON'T happen.

It is safest to birth as far away from a hospital as possible. I often say the biggest labor mistake I made was leaving my hot tub at home to push the baby out at the hospital "for my husband." The interventions that were introduced and scared into me, and my DH who was not as anti-hospital and therefore more easily scared when he saw his wife upset, harmed the progress of my labor and caused me to have issues that had to be surgically repaired two months later. Thanks to the hospital we had no sex for over a year post partum - scare your DH with that one!


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

I would NOT go to a surgeon for a normal birth. If I were you, I would tell him to do some research. If he can convince you hospitals are safest, great. But your research has led you to the opposite conclusion and seeing how you are basing your decision on research and his is based on societal blindness, and the fact that it's your body, you WILL be giving birth at the birth center unless he is able to convince you otherwise. I woudn't leave it up for debate beyond that.

Put his foot down? WTF does that even mean? If my husband tried to "put his foot down" about something *I* had to do essentially by myself, he'd find his @$$ looking for a new place to live. That is OUTRAGEOUS imo.


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## texaspeach (Jun 19, 2005)

http://www.gentlebirth.org/ronnie/homesafe.html

I'm totally with Sublime, because if my husband said he was going to "put his foot down" he'd be putting it down right out side the door and finding a new place to sleep.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Sorry, you lost me at "let."


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeathenMommy* 
I watched the trailer to "Business of Being Born" with Hubby and he's sworn that I've been reading "alarmist and extreme" pap that's got me fearing hospitals wrongly.

How does he know that his ideas haven't come from alarmist and extreme pap about _out_ of hospital birth?










I second the recommendation to read The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth.

So, I know an MD who had a homebirth, or rather, four -- Sarah Buckley's children were all born at home.







Here's an article by her: http://www.mothering.com/articles/pr.../ecstatic.html
And her website: http://www.sarahjbuckley.com/

There's an MDC member here, doctorjen, who is a family practice doctor who attends births. One of her children was born at home, albeit accidently, but she is a supporter of homebirth.

Other MDs who support homebirth:
Lewis Mehl (did matched population study comparing homebirth and hospital birth): http://www.healing-arts.org/mehl-madrona/mmcv.htm
Michel Odent (researcher and longtime birth attendant, including homebirth): http://www.birthworks.org/bwodent.html
Marsden Wagner (past director of women & children's health for the WHO): http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articl...ogyinbirth.asp


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Sorry but there is no room for discussion about this. Unless he plans to be pregnant and go through labor and childbirth, he does not get a say in how this child is born. YOU are ultimately the one who has to live with the consequences. It angers me greatly that MEN think they have a say in anything regarding birth. Their job is to sit there and say "Yes ma'am, no ma'am, okay as long as you are happy, etc etc..."


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## sweeetpea (Jun 14, 2006)

Heathen,

First -







It stinks that you have to have this fight with DH.

Second, both DCBC and Birthcare are great birth centers. Either one would be awesome for you. If DH has not yet met with/talked with the midwives there, he needs to. Talking "worst case" with them will help alleviate his fears and help him respect them as highly trained medical care providers who have your and your baby's best interests as their top priority.

Third, if you can't convert him and, compromise for a hospital birth, please take your OB's assurances with a huge dose of skepticism. There are *VERY* few OBs in this area that agree to minimal intervention, alternative positions and no IV. And none of the female ones I've been with do. I have NEVER supported a birth at any of the DC hospitals without a heplock at the very least. (I have had clients get away with minimal or no interventions at VHC and Alexandria, but it is a combination of care provider and hospital flexibility.) Once you are in the hospital system, you are pressured to do a whole lot of things, and if DH going to join in pressuring you to "just get the heplock/IV/cervidil/cytotec/pitocin/anitbiotics/continuous monitoring/whatever", it makes for a tough go.







:

At the very least, can you get him to a Bradley or Birthworks class series? He may tune it out, but there is a huge amount of good information you can slip him in the guise of "childbirth ed".

Finally, I think one or more of the Dr. Sears' kids were born at home. Have to check their books or website to be sure.

Feel free to PM me for more info on the area birthing options and ed classes

HTH,

Sweetpea


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

A local OB here in my small town had homebirths.







I don't have any documentation of that fact though...

Pushed has several references to MDs who had HBs or their wives had HBs.


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## attachedmamaof3 (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Sorry, you lost me at "let."


hahaa I was just typing the same thing.

I'm laughing right now thinking of my DP trying to get up the courage to even utter that word in my direction. ahahhaaaaaaaaaa

IMO, it's not a discussion about convincing, agreeing, letting or not letting. It's a "it's gonna happen with you/without you...you decide which" situation.


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## PPK (Feb 15, 2007)

I agree w/pp about taking him to Bradley classes. Also, let him know you understand his concerns, and let him know if he comes across any (valid) studies that conclude a hospital is safer to birth in (under normal conditions) then you will look over those facts and take them into consideration. (They don't exist).

If that desn't work, well..IMO, there's no argument to be had-you're the one that's birthing, its you that needs to feel comfortable, he'll adjust.


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## Kleine Hexe (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeathenMommy* 
We talked to my OB who swore I can walk around and kneel and squat to my heart's delight and that I won't be harassed with interference options, but isn't that what she'd usually say anyhow? Why would she justify my fears before I'm in labor?


That is exactly what happened to me. My DH was very opposed to a birth center/midwife birth. He had issues due to growing up believing in the dangers of birth due to his sister. So I relented and went to an OB. Oh, he (the OB) was a charmer. Super nice and used all the right "buzz" words. Promised I could do what ever I wanted to in labor. He only does c-sections for life/death emergencies, yada yada yada. He flat out lied. Lied to my face. Lied. He did everything he said he wouldn't do....and a lot of it did it without telling me. Like breaking my water at 1cm when he said he was just going to check my progress. Long story short. I ended up with a c-section at 6pm....just in time for him to be home for dinner.

We had some pretty good fights. As the anger I felt towards DH was tremendous. Bad times. So that's something to keep in mind. If you relent to make your DH feel safe and secure and things go in the wrong direction....you may find yourself angery at him. It is not an easy thing to overcome.

Next pg when DH tried to say I couldn't have a homebirth I flat out told him, "No vagina, no vote." I basically told him *I* felt safe at home and that's all that mattered. I added that if he felt safe in a hospital, then he was more than welcome to go there, and sit in the waiting room and I'd call him from home after the baby was born.


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Veritaserum* 
Tell your dh that when _he's_ the one giving birth, he can pick how to do it.









That's exactly what I did. In fact, I told dh, "If I have to birth this baby in the woods by myself, so be it." I would not set foot in a hospital for birth again. Dh could join me in my homebirth or not, but it was going to be MY way, not his.

We had a homebirth in Oct 2001 and just had an unassisted birth 2 weeks ago. And my dh is VERY PRO homebirth now.

If I am the one carrying and birthing this baby, then it's going to go MY way.


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## pixiepunk (Mar 11, 2003)

while i agree with everyone with the basic spirit that it's your body and should be ultimately your decision, it surprises me how many people are simultaneously offended by the word "let" while saying they would completely ignore their partner's concerns/fears and do whatever they wanted.

i am in a relationship that involves two people. when we disagree, we talk, we present or arguments, when appropriate we do research, we come to an agreement. he doesnt put his foot down, and neither do i. if this is something you've done research about and he hasn't ask him to do some reading - and try to find mainstream statistics like the CDC, WHO, or books like The Thinking Woman's which uses obstetrical research. it might be as simple as seeing the statistics showing that the increased c-section rate has not improved outcomes for mothers or babies, or how high the US is on maternal and infant death rates while simultaneously being one of the highest for c-sections (among industrialized nations) and that those with midwifery as the model of care are the ones with the best looking stats - low c-section rates, better outcomes for mothers and babies. you might also want to talk to him about how interventions affect bonding and breastfeeding.

for heaven's sake - he did have a child born via c-section, and like most people was told that if they hadn't been in the hospital and had the c-section that everyone would've died. he's obviously terrified that he could lose you and/or baby, and the way around that is not to tell him he can find somewhere else to sleep if he doesn't like your birth choices. help him understand why it's safe to birth with a midwife, and what risks are involved in hospital births. respect him and his opinion, and help him to understand yours. start taking a birth prep class like Bradley together - hearing those stats from an "expert" even if it's not an MD, and seeing other couples who are on board will help.

are you going to Birthcare? we used them for our homebirth with DS and we had a fantastic experience. if you haven't already done so, take him in there for their informational session. it will help to have them explain how things work, how/why they would transfer to a hospital, what situations would warrant a c-section and how that little drive wouldn't make a difference in outcomes, what they do in other situations (like meconium aspiration, or baby having trouble breathing right after birth) while there in the BC.

give him some time, help him understand. though totally misguided, he does have your safety and baby's at heart. don't forget that.


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## PPK (Feb 15, 2007)

Well said Pixiepunk!


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## Kleine Hexe (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiepunk* 

for heaven's sake - he did have a child born via c-section, and like most people was told that if they hadn't been in the hospital and had the c-section that everyone would've died. he's obviously terrified that he could lose you and/or baby, and the way around that is not to tell him he can find somewhere else to sleep if he doesn't like your birth choices. help him understand why it's safe to birth with a midwife, and what risks are involved in hospital births. respect him and his opinion, and help him to understand yours. start taking a birth prep class like Bradley together - hearing those stats from an "expert" even if it's not an MD, and seeing other couples who are on board will help.

give him some time, help him understand. though totally misguided, he does have your safety and baby's at heart. don't forget that.

Yeah, um....that's what I did my first time around. Know what happened? My DH could have cared less what I told him. He didn't care what the studies said. He didn't care what the statistics showed. He didn't care how afraid *I* was to go to a hospital. It was all about him. He wanted to feel like he was "protecting" me and in his mind that was in a hospital with an OB. He grew up with a fear of birth due to the complications his mom had with his sister. DH's sister has cerebral palsy and is now 42 years old. DH has watched his sister and parents struggle with her multiple issues all his life. He was told that all her problems were due to a birth accident. So, yes, he was afraid of the birth process. So I relented. Wanna know what happened? I got *screwed*....it was me physically going through not him. He stood there and watched as I had every painful intervention in the book that ultimately lead to a highly unnecessary c-section. He did not physically go through that. Therefore, he was happy as a clam. I was miserable.

I came to realize that DH's fear of birth was *his* problem not mine. I had tried to talk to him, show him the research, tell him how I felt. He wouldn't hear it. He could not let go of his fear. I finally knew that it was not my job to fix his problem. It was his issue and he would have to do the work to get over it. I can not *make* someone listen or change their mind if they are not willing to do so. If they are not willing....it is not my job to sacrifice myself to help that person deal with their own hang-ups.

While expecting our 2nd baby I did explain to DH that he was not responsible for me and the baby during the birth. It was not his job to "protect" me from birth. Birth is the woman's work and his only job was to support me. I think that helped him let go of the idea that as a man he is my protector and responsible for my safety.

I compromised the first time and I was burned. It will never happen again. As it turns out I had the best homebirth ever with my 2nd baby. Now, after that birth, DH says homebirth is the best way to go.


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## crsta33 (Oct 13, 2004)

I didn't read through everything, but I know an MD who birthed her child at home...her birth story is in Ina May's Guide even. She's the backup MD for a freestanding birthcenter in Waynesboro, TN.

Maybe too far to make him "happy" but I'll pass along her name and such if you want it (just PM me).

Christa


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## HeathenMommy (Nov 5, 2007)

Ladies,

I've composed and erased half a dozen replies to this thread for fear of sounding like a babbling idiot. So forgive my disjointed thoughts in advance!

First of all, thanks to EVERYONE who responded. The advice to kick Hubby out to sleep in the car- I didn't take, but I DID get a little more assertive with him. And I printed out much reading from the links you wonderfully gave me, and I've ordered every book mentioned in the thread. (I have Pushed on my shelf and have NO idea how it got there! I'm such a book whore though. I'd rather read nonfiction than do almost anything else!)

And I taped one of those Discovery Channel "Babies are Great" specials where the mother delivered in a tub at a birthing center with her husband, their 2yo and her mom and sister. The baby was blue, but the midwives explained that with a lack of oxygen like that you just stimulate the babe and don't cut the cord right away, and the little one turned pink and went right to nursing on camera! We'll be watching that together.

Anyhow, he came home from work to find me in "lawyer mode" as he calls it, where I've got my research, my arguments and rebuttals to possible contentions all indexed and instantly got fearful and defensive.

I interrupted him to say that all this research was for me and I had no interest in arguing or fighting. But this is my body and I'm going to bring his healthy baby to him and he's got to let me figure out the best way to do that. Hubby is a wonderful guy... he's my best friend and I love him more than anything. We so rarely fight that when we do, I get ill and he gets all sad and depressed-like, so we're really pathetic! But in his defense, he's not a total bunghole, so I think there's hope.

He was tired and he just put his arms around me and took me to bed and told me that he would support what I wanted to do, but I needed to let him express his feelings and his reservations. And I told him that I would do so, but he'd have to let me do my research and that my idea of a happy birth experience isn't with me fighting the docs and nurses telling them "No I don't want... Please stop sticking me... I don't care that I'm only ___ centimeters!"

We'll figure this out, and we start with signing up for Bradley classes, baby massage class and tours of the birthing suite at GWU hospital and two of the birth centers I'm considering. I also have a girlfriend I'd lost touch with, but I found her again here in town. She has a 6 mo old delivered at home with a midwife and her mom!

A lot to think about, and THANK YOU ALL for your advice.


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## ishereal (Sep 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Sorry, you lost me at "let."

This is why I absolutely adore !









Listen hun I am in the same situation as you but my mind is made up, I am having a home birth with a midwife, no vax and no circ and I am co sleeping so either he likes or doesnt









You will become stronger with time and even if you give him info his mind may be made up OR he may not read it (mine didnt) so ............. DO WHAT YOU WANT MAMA!!!!!


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## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

Does he not get that statistically you are safer at home? I think men in general respond well to statistics. Talking to other homebirthing dads might help as well too.


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

do what you want telling him that he's free to disagree, but unless he can come up with information to convince you to birth in a hospital, you're not going to.

and leave it at that. let him do the research.

edited to add:

yes, he can talk about his fears and his concerns, but an uneducated opinion holds no weight and it's not wise to make decisions based on someone's fears.

he can talk about his fears all he wants until he's blue--but he's responsible for working through those fears--and supporting your decision.


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## Kleine Hexe (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
yes, he can talk about his fears and his concerns, but an uneducated opinion holds no weight and it's not wise to make decisions based on someone's fears.

he can talk about his fears all he wants until he's blue--but he's responsible for working through those fears--and supporting your decision.

This bears repeating. I learned this the hard way. It's *his* responsiblity to work through those fears.


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## ishereal (Sep 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kleine Hexe* 
Yeah, um....that's what I did my first time around. Know what happened? My DH could have cared less what I told him. He didn't care what the studies said. He didn't care what the statistics showed. He didn't care how afraid *I* was to go to a hospital. It was all about him. He wanted to feel like he was "protecting" me and in his mind that was in a hospital with an OB. He grew up with a fear of birth due to the complications his mom had with his sister. DH's sister has cerebral palsy and is now 42 years old. DH has watched his sister and parents struggle with her multiple issues all his life. He was told that all her problems were due to a birth accident. So, yes, he was afraid of the birth process. So I relented. Wanna know what happened? I got *screwed*....it was me physically going through not him. He stood there and watched as I had every painful intervention in the book that ultimately lead to a highly unnecessary c-section. He did not physically go through that. Therefore, he was happy as a clam. I was miserable.

I came to realize that DH's fear of birth was *his* problem not mine. I had tried to talk to him, show him the research, tell him how I felt. He wouldn't hear it. He could not let go of his fear. I finally knew that it was not my job to fix his problem. It was his issue and he would have to do the work to get over it. I can not *make* someone listen or change their mind if they are not willing to do so. If they are not willing....it is not my job to sacrifice myself to help that person deal with their own hang-ups.

While expecting our 2nd baby I did explain to DH that he was not responsible for me and the baby during the birth. It was not his job to "protect" me from birth. Birth is the woman's work and his only job was to support me. I think that helped him let go of the idea that as a man he is my protector and responsible for my safety.

I compromised the first time and I was burned. It will never happen again. As it turns out I had the best homebirth ever with my 2nd baby. Now, after that birth, DH says homebirth is the best way to go.









:







:







:







:
My DP is the same way


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

I'm glad he's being reasonable. I think that you got the reactions you did because this board has a lot of touch chicks who prickle at the idea of being told how we will be allowed to give birth ("we" meaning "women"). If your husband sees you give birth by your own power at a birth center, he will forever be a convert, I can almost guarantee it. He'll get it. You just have to get him there









Be careful about which class you sign up for. Interview the teacher and make sure she shares your ideas about birth. There is a lot of variety out there!


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

You might just tell him that "this is how it is." I would have NEVER done that to my dh the first time, so it was a HUGE relief and shock that he felt "ok" with it after speaking with the midwife and asking all his questions.

We had 2 at the birth center. My dh MAY even be pro-natural birth now







...I don tknow if he talks to ppl about it...but its all he knows.

But this time I am planning on having the baby at home and I told dh "I love you but you dont have a choice..." He is a little nervous but I think he trusts me. Its possibly my last birth....probably actually. And I thought "I would regret this if I wasnt assertive about it."

If I were you, I would study *for yourself*, the risk of birthing in a hospital and just practice being assertive, yourself. (He may not be "convincable.") Did you get last months mothering mag? It was FULL of stats on homebirths/hospital births/c-section rates/death from c-sections/etc tec/.

Get it!









I mean, play the scenario out in your head. "Honey, we have a prenatal appointment on Tuesday..." (Assuming your dp will be going toyour visits with you.)

And when labor starts "Honey, Its time to go...." (What is he going to do-drag you to the hospital where you dont even have a OB?)

Play the whole thing out....just set up an appointment and tell him you have an appointment!


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## pixiepunk (Mar 11, 2003)

#1 - i was not suggesting making a decision based on someone's fears. quite the opposite, i was talking about addressing those fears, getting rid of them so you can both approach the birth happily and without fear, together. i mean, even if your threats work, is he going to be *there* emotionally for you while you birth? or is he going to be resentful, still scared, feeling disconnected. a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face, if you ask me.

#2 i am really surprised and disappointed by how many people don't seem to care at all about their partners' fears. if *you* had fears going into your birth (about the birth itself, or becoming a mom, or whatever) would you want your husband to say "gee, that's too bad. it's probably because you've been brainwashed by society. do some research and get over it, and talk to me when you have." ?!?! that's not really the response i'd be looking for, so why would it be the response i'd give to my partner?

my mom always told me to treat others as i'd want to be treated. being talked to that way by my partner would be nothing but hurtful to me, no matter what the situation. we have more respect for each other than that.

ETA...

Quote:

He was tired and he just put his arms around me and took me to bed and told me that he would support what I wanted to do, but I needed to let him express his feelings and his reservations. And I told him that I would do so, but he'd have to let me do my research and that my idea of a happy birth experience isn't with me fighting the docs and nurses telling them "No I don't want... Please stop sticking me... I don't care that I'm only ___ centimeters!"
good for you! it sounds to me like he'll definitely come around. i think he just needs to know that it's safe to be out of a hospital, and we all know there's plenty of evidence to support that, as long as he's willing to look at it.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Give him Henci Goer's "the thinking woman's guide to a better birth" to read.

And try emphasising that it's a SAFE birth experience for you and the baby you primarily want, even above a happy one. And that the safest place for a healthy woman and baby is NOT going to be in a hospital with a routine heplock and CFM policy.


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## phoebemommy (Mar 30, 2006)

It doesn't seem like anyone has really mentioned this yet, so I'll say it -- something else to think about and chat with your dh about is that your success in labor has a lot to do with your state of mind, your calm, your feelings of safety and security. Michel Odent writes a lot about this; his _Birth and Breastfeeding_ is a great book by the way! So on one hand, it really is all about you birthing where you feel safe, and anyone who has a problem with it needs to suck it up. BUT, if your dh brings fear into the room, or even sits outside in the hall with fear, you will feel that fear, you will worry about him, you will want to make him feel better because, well, he's your husband and you love him. In that way, his fear can be devastating to your labor -- your focus will be on him and not the hard work you need to do. So, from that angle, it really is important that you work to help him understand why a birth center is the best place for you. But I really agree with most of the thread who says, ultimately, he shouldn't get a say. He can express his concerns and be heard and talk about it, but this is your decision. And likewise, I hope you would never pressure him into a major medical procedure he doesn't want just because it would make you feel better.


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## Veritaserum (Apr 24, 2004)

Pixie,

I get what you're saying. And when my husband's first reaction to my statement that I wanted a home birth was "No way" my immediate reaction wasn't to get into a fight. I knew that he was worried about me and the baby because he loves us. I also knew that he didn't have all the information so I wasn't going to give up there. I decided my best course of action would be to educate him, which I did.

Once he learned the facts, I think he still had lingering "but everybody knows hospital births are safer" feelings going on. He realized, though, that home birth was extremely important to me, and because he loves me and respects me he was willing to trust my judgment and support me.

It bothers me when either of the following happen:

1) Women stop at "oh, well, dh said no".
2) The dh refuses to learn anything or refuses to acknowledge that his wife, as the one actually giving birth, should be supported in whatever she ultimately decides to do. So even if he's not totally comfortable with it, it's not fair for his fears/wishes to trump hers.


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## ecstaticmama24 (Sep 20, 2006)

Dr. Sarah Buckley (MD) from Australia homebirthed all 4 of her children! So there's the Dr. for ya.

When it comes down to it, you're having the baby. This was such a struggle for my relationship as well, not to mention the circ fight after too! arrrrgg!

Hope it all works out for you,

Andrea


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## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

More doctors who support homebirth:

http://www.elvovemd.com/home.htm

There is some decent info on the site, but I don't think it covers homebirth much anymore since this doctor had to stop attending homebirths starting in 2007 due to inability to get med mal insurance. However, he attended homebirths (as the MD) for something like 25 years.

http://www.homefirst.com/

Website of physician group that attends homebirths. Again, these are MDs attending homebirths.

So obviously, not all MDs are unsupportive of homebirth.


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## valeria_vi (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeathenMommy* 
He was tired and he just put his arms around me and took me to bed and told me that he would support what I wanted to do, but I needed to let him express his feelings and his reservations. And I told him that I would do so, but he'd have to let me do my research and that my idea of a happy birth experience isn't with me fighting the docs and nurses telling them "No I don't want... Please stop sticking me... I don't care that I'm only ___ centimeters!"

he has a right to have fears, especially after his prior experience. I'm sure he is convinced that everyone would have died if not for the c-section. but i also think that instead of just expressing fears and staying afraid, he should explore those fears and what would happen if this was at home. hopefully, this would help him.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SublimeBirthGirl* 
I would NOT go to a surgeon for a normal birth. If I were you, I would tell him to do some research. If he can convince you hospitals are safest, great. But your research has led you to the opposite conclusion and seeing how you are basing your decision on research and his is based on societal blindness, and the fact that it's your body, you WILL be giving birth at the birth center unless he is able to convince you otherwise. I woudn't leave it up for debate beyond that.

Put his foot down? WTF does that even mean? If my husband tried to "put his foot down" about something *I* had to do essentially by myself, he'd find his @$$ looking for a new place to live. That is OUTRAGEOUS imo.

Exactly! He's making a jerk of himself. Tell him that HE can do the research and you'll do what your body tells you to do. I can't understand a man trying to dictate the birthing experience of a woman. WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS to try to bully you into doing something that you're not comfortable with?

If my dh tried that, he'd not be invited to the birth. His negativity can actually cause YOUR labor to stall. Not healthy at all. You'll need even more reassurance than most women because of his attitude.

I see that he's come around. I hope that he truly comes around so that there's no negativity to deal with during labor. Have a wonderful birth!

Lisa


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## rixafreeze (Apr 30, 2006)

I personally have met an OB, Veronika Kolder, who birthed her baby at home with direct-entry midwives. She wrote a foreward to one of Anne Frye's midwifery textbooks. She has also written some articles about court-ordered cesarean sections--you'll find them if you google her name and that phrase.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

It's not that I don't care about my husband's fears (though my husband has the sense not to try to tell me what I can and cannot do with my own body). I would certainly talk through them with him, but I'm not going to give up MY birth, sacrifice my own desires not to mention my own safety and bodily integrity, just because of his irrational fears.


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## amitymama (Nov 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kleine Hexe* 
I added that if he felt safe in a hospital, then he was more than welcome to go there, and sit in the waiting room and I'd call him from home after the baby was born.









That really made me laugh, picturing a man driving frantically to the hospital and pacing around in scrubs while his wife peacefully births their baby at home. It's a strong visual image and one that makes a sad commentary on the fear of birth so many men have.


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## g&a (Dec 15, 2004)

FWIW: It helped my DH a lot when we interviewed the midwife and asked all the tough questions like what happens if my wife starts to bleed to death etc.. He realized that we were in good hands and she was going to be more cautious than me....

Now he's pushing for a hospital birth with the midwife, but knows how important it is to me to stay out of the hospital so we've basically agreed to disagree.

The midwife's advice was to say "I need your support on this" and then move on. Women want to talk it all out and have consensus on all the issues, men not so much.

Good Luck. It sucks to disagree on such a fundamental level, but you may never be able to convince him.

g.


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## elanorh (Feb 1, 2006)

I don't have a link but don't think I saw mention of the CDC's own statistics, which I've read here show that it's safer to birth at home -- maybe someone could link to that for the OP too. It may help.

I'm glad to hear that your dh is coming 'round. My parents knew a man whose wife died during childbirth and he was a total mess when his new wife got pregnant (both times). Whether or not his ex's c/s was a medically managed cascade, or truly lifesaving -- he's certainly been told by everyone that it was the only way she/his child survived. I'd imagine it's hard to work through that level of experiential fear/trauma.

So, patience, and it sounds like given some understanding (and continued firmness on your part) - he should come 'round.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Veritaserum* 
Tell your dh that when _he's_ the one giving birth, he can pick how to do it.









Yeah. What's this "he won't let me" crap? As long as it's not going to break your bank account, he shouldn't really be allowed to make that decision for you. You're not talking about a UC here...it's a BIRTHING CENTER.


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## SharonAnne (Jul 12, 2004)

Sounds like he's coming around


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## HeathenMommy (Nov 5, 2007)

So, just as I'm feeling okay with our compromise of hospital birth with midwife or doula, I'm realizing that this is so not what I even want. I've told Hubby that I don't want a pitbull birth assistant, I want a shark with a bad attitude suffering from PMS!

The book "Pushed" is totally making me feel worse and worse about having this baby in a hospital with a c-section percentage of more than 35%! I mean, I know I can labor at home until baby darned near crowns, but I'm just getting more angry by the moment.

I don't want my babe ripped out of me or from me and poked and jabbed before I can hold him or her. I don't promise to not rip the heplock out of my hand while I'm in the hospital. I have to find out what kind of baby montior they'll use, but I don't promise to not rip tubes out of my... body. And I sure as holy hell don't want to not get in the shower or crawl around because of the monitor- that I don't even want, keeping me in bed. And I'm just starting to learn about the eye goo and injections they plan before even letting me put babe to breast! WTF man? Where is the outrage? Why are we American women not marching in the streets?

The policy at this hospital is that if baby is 7 days past (arbitrary!) due date, they're going to induce. Yeah right! This kid is gonna come when s/he wants to and I'm getting more anti-pitocin by the second... Are they gonna come to my house and get me?

It's such a shame that young women aren't taught about birth and such before it's time for them to start seriously considering pregnancies. I always thought of myself as very intelligent and impeccably informed, and boy am I learning how far off track I really am! Just now am I even learning the questions I'm supposed to be asking!

Too bad Oprah isn't into mommy topics. She could really make some positive change for the babies in the states if she wanted to. (sigh) Oh well.


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## hipmummy (May 25, 2007)

I talked my dh into a birth center. he was very happy in the long run. SAdly we were transferred, but most of my wishes were followed. He does not wantto go back to the hospital. If we have our own , I may evenbe ableto talk him into a HB. My suggestionto you is stay home till it dare I say............................................... .................. too late


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## 98741 (May 17, 2006)

yikes! i'd be scared about the possiblity of going there to birth too! i really think you need to put yourself first in this situation. we are having a hb with this babe and dh isn't thrilled, but i have explained why it is so very important to me, given him things to read, and gave him the opportunity to question the midwife. it did come down to the fact that, while i am his wife and this is his child, it is, at the core, my experience and my body so i am making this choice. he is not happy, but he accepts that this is what we are doing. i have tried talking to him about his fears/reservations and convincing him of the safety, but it truely comes down to you. i fully respect my husband and we make virtually all decisions together, but birth is so instinctively important to women in ways men can never understand that it truely is worth YOU "putting your foot down" for. i'm not advising you do anything to damage your relationship, but you do need to let him know how very important his support is to you and that very little is more important to you than protecting the birth of your child. good luck to you and i really hope you get the birth you ALL deserve!


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## stiltzz (Jun 11, 2007)

This is his baby too. He needs to be in on the dicussions with your OB or midwife.

I had a hospital birth and was induced because of complications. I had talked with my high risk OB about what I wanted ahead of time and I was VERY clear that there would be no c-section unless it was absolutely necessary to save our child's life. I was out of bed and on my swiss ball a great deal of the time and delivered our son fine. I didn't get any of the horrible meds they usually give you after induction either.

So, a hospital birth does not have to be a horrible experience! If that is what is needed then you just do it.


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## texanatheart (Sep 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeathenMommy* 
We talked to my OB who swore I can walk around and kneel and squat to my heart's delight and that I won't be harassed with interference options, but isn't that what she'd usually say anyhow? Why would she justify my fears before I'm in labor?

I just wanted to add my 2 cents about this...my doctor said the same thing, and it didn't happen. I got the IV, external monitoring, etc, etc that I didn't want. I did read a woman's story recently, though, that she had the nurse call her OB to check with him/her, and the nurse let her do as she pleased (yoga in her room/walking the hallways/etc) after that.

That being said, I really would like to encourage you to go the birthing center route. I wouldn't give my birth experience up for anything, but it would definitely have been MUCH more pleasant in a birth center.


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## almadianna (Jul 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Sorry, you lost me at "let."

yup.
the day that any man has feels like he has the power to tell me what to do with my body is the day that he is out of the door.


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## almadianna (Jul 22, 2006)

My husband had never heard of HB before I got pregnant. it was never disccused that this was going to happen when we had kids. Needless to say he wasnt all for it, he was scared. He loves me and he was almost 40 having his first kid. He was not looking forward to "holding you while you bleed to death" as he put it. I gave him Ina Mays books, and the thinking woman's guide to better birth for father's day a month later. He promised he would read them and a month later he went on a business trip and did. It seems he just wanted to be alone while he educated himself and his own thoughts.
He knew that I was going to do what I wanted. It is my body and it is my choice. I told him that I wanted him with me and supporting me but my body and my safety was more important to me. When I said that he realized how important this was to me and after he read the books he realized I was right. Now he is the biggest homebirth supporter I have ever seen. He knows more about birth than most women do and he speaks to other fathers about it.
All it took was him respecting my decisions to begin with, him realizing how important this was to me, educating himself, and trusting me and my body. All of those things should be things that should not be hard anyways when you are in a good marriage, so I didnt feel like I was asking too much. Thankfully I didnt give in and we had a beautiful peaceful birth.


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## mlec (May 29, 2005)

I only have a sec, so I only read the op--sorry!

BUT in Ina May's Guide to Childbirth (that you can get off of Amazon.com, or BirthCare prob. has a copy you could borrow, if you're familiar w/ them) it mentions an M.D. who was married to an M.D. who birthed her baby w/ Ina May on the farm. It's a great story....esp.since she realized afterwards how much she as a obgyn would've interfered in a birth like her own.

Good luck! I say, your body, your baby. Guys just do not get it--the physiological stuff is so important.

Also, give him some news articles on:
--hospital staph infections
--the dad who was tasered at the hospital while holding his newborn, and baby was dropped on the floor (he and his wife were trying to leave w/o vaxes, I believe)
--the florida mom who had a complication-free birth but had both arms and legs amputated 11 days after the birth, since she caught a flesh-eating bacterial infection from the hospital.
--the mom who's induction ended in her death from meningitis since the anesthiesologist (sp!) didn't wash his hands
--I just read about a family who's son suffered severe brain damage b/c the doc dropped him at the birth--wet and slippery baby, mama on a high "delivery" table over a hard tile floor

That hospitals are the safest place is a myth. Get him the info on that Canadian study that showed homebirths were as safe as hospitals w/ fewer episiotomies, fewer tears, fewer post partum infections.


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

*SublimeBirthGirl said:* _It's not that I don't care about my husband's fears (though my husband has the sense not to try to tell me what I can and cannot do with my own body). I would certainly talk through them with him, but I'm not going to give up MY birth, sacrifice my own desires not to mention my own safety and bodily integrity, just because of his irrational fears._

this is definitely my point of view.

too many men are unwilling to listen to a woman's desires for herself and her birth, they're unwilling to listen to or research information to help them come to an informed decision, and they're unwilling to work through their fears with or without their wife's help.

they use the "this is my baby too" scenario, and women blithely follow suit and say "well, he has a right to his part. . ." and they give up their power, their needs, their intuition, their physical, emotional, and spiritual safety to the fears of these men.

we shouldn't just give in because he says so.

we've been doing it too long. it's why medwives and obs get away with so much garbage. it's part of that paradigm of someone else knows best.

maybe, just maybe WE women know what's best. and maybe, we should be willing to stand up for that.


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## DeChRi (Apr 19, 2002)

Replying without reading second half of the posts.....(new baby fussing here)

My DH is very much like yours. Many men tend to be programmed as "risk managers" and they see (when not having all the info) hospital, well "managed" births as the way to minimize the potential harm that could come to thier DW and baby. This is giving them credit....now, back to reality....









What I found with DH, was trying to see his side to start out, and keep in mind that we both wanted the same healthy birth, but had different ideas on how to get there.

We did Bradley classes, which gave him a new set of info. He is an info junkie. Plus having the neutral 3rd party presenting it helped. Some stuff he was skeptical and looked more into. But in the end, the more info I provided him with from legit sources, then more he became balance in the set of info he had.

I know this is more middle line than some other people may agree with, but it was important to me to go into labor with DH and I together. I tried to see his side, then present the info to him on my side, as well as being able to give him solid info to put his concerns at ease.

We had a great birth.







Good luck!


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## paphia (Jun 22, 2007)

HeathenMommy: keep working on shifting this "compromise" to where you will feel most safe giving birth. I gave birth in the hospital. I got a heplock, VE's, and intermittent external monitoring until I was a half hour into pushing when they pushed an internal monitor on me. DD was suctioned on the perineum due to some meconium in the water, her cord was cut immediately, she was whisked to the warmer next to my bed and eye-gooed and vit k'ed, etc. Without asking, they injected my thigh with some pit and the OB pulled out my placenta.

Looking back, even though I had a low intervention hospital birth and feel that it couldn't have gone much better, I would never choose to birth that way again. Never, ever. Even with my supportive dh and doula. Even if I could have a 100% guarantee that it would all go as "well" as it did the first time.

Keep working on your dh. Tell him what you're learning. Tell him about how *wrong* it is to you to have your body run over by a medically managed hospital birth. Tell him all the scary statistics that come from the cascade of interventions. But start making arrangements that make you feel good about your birth, and give him some time to warm up to them, and assume he'll come around. You shouldn't have to pick between fighting your spouse or fighting the hospital system when it comes to birth.

But if it does come down to that, I'd pick fighting with your spouse. He's got a much bigger investment in working things out in order to find a happy solution (i.e. a happy wife/mother of his child). The hospital doesn't really care if you're mad at them.


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## HeathenMommy (Nov 5, 2007)

So now it's come to this...

I've printed out the amputated mom in Florida story, the Canadian homebirth study, the staph and necrotizing infections research and studies AND the C section in Culture of Fear Article from last issue of Mothering. Hubby hasn't read anything yet... He's got until next Monday before I strap him into bed uncomfortably and poke him in the behind until he can't take it anymore!

I've set up an appointment with the 1st doula we want to interview, and I'm realizing that this is not going well... Just today, we got into a near fight because Hubby says I'm being "unreasonable" and "reneging" on my "promise" to have baby #1 in the hospital.

And true to male form like many of you predicted he pulled the "It's my baby too and I'm gonna have some say in this!" card. So I pulled the "My body, my labor, my choice!" card and he says that I should no longer talk with him about this, I should talk with my doc. And then we went back to the circular argument of my belief that the doc will tell me whatever I want to hear and then do what the hell she wants anyway, or my larger fear, she won't be the doc on duty when baby comes knocking and I'll get a bunch of residents wanting to stick their hands up inside of me because they've never done it before and hey- I'm probably one of the first uninduced chicks in labor they've met.

So what's next for me is to spend some time on a few local mommy message boards and find out who had a doc they liked and who will adhere to my "radical" request to be left alone! But I'm not feeling so confident about this becuase of where we live... Hence my desire for two big imposing sunglassed bodyguards who will ask everyone coming near me, "What are you doing? HeathenMommy, he wants to XYZ, cool with you?" Or better yet, "I see her going for scissors! I see her going for scissors! Scissors are not cleared to be in this area!"

Oh... I should just get a job writing fantasy!


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## 98741 (May 17, 2006)

You could probably find a showing of The Business of Being Born in your area. If at all possible take your husband!!! All you should tell him is to have an open mind and you can talk about it when he's ready. My dad went (had to if he wants to come to this birth at home) and loved it! He was telling everyone in bible study the next night about how bad interventions are! I'm so proud! Now granted he was very pro "natural" birth going in and saw my mom have all 4 of us and watched my daughter born with out intervention in a hospital but was very pro hospital birth. This changed his mind. Seriously, a movie can make an impact an article or conversation can't. Ask everyone you can find in the birth field in your area and someone will know if there is a showing coming up.

ETA: How far along are you? I truely believe something can be said for "taking a break" for a while. Just try to avoid the topic for 2-3 weeks and let him do some thinking and processing on his own. If you are early enough in your pregnancy it might be helpful. If you are late second trimester or beyond I understand needing to get things in order now.


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## HeathenMommy (Nov 5, 2007)

Great idea!

However I showed him the trailer and he FREAKED THE ^@## OUT about me looking at reactionary and inflammatory stuff that "doesn't even apply to you!" So I don't know how openminded this one can be.

He SWEARS that his 22 year old and his ex-wife would have died without the c-section... and that's the only birth experience he can relate to.

I'll be on the lookout for the Business of Being Born, and since I'm only 12.5 weeks (it seems so much longer now... I'll check back in about how long it feels in a few more months!) the moratorium could be a good idea...

I just love a good debate- especially when I'm right!!!!! But who doesn't.

I'll just keep leaving articles and stuff under his pillow and on his favorite chair and we'll see what happens!


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## shelleyd (Jul 24, 2005)

Just a thought here- When you're bombarding him with information, it seems that you're trying to change his mind since his position is the default. The hospital seems decided and so what reason does he have to read everything you're giving him? How about just telling him you're going to the bc. And do it, set up the appointment. Then leave it up to him to change your mind. Put the ball in his court. You be the one to put your foot down and then let it go. Let him dig for info, etc. You've done your part.

I think that this should be resolved but I also think the default should be what the person birthing the baby wants. If he can come up with a compelling reason to go to the hospital, then fair enough. But until then, it's what you feel comfortable doing. This is both of your baby but it's coming out of YOUR body. You will be the one that has to heal from the birth, not him.

Good luck,
Shelley


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

Every birth is different. Was his son's mother in the same shape as you? The same physical conditioning? The same age? The same medical history? Having the same sort of PG?

Every woman is different. Every PG is different. Every birth is different.

How, exactly, does he believe the human race survived and flourished before c-sections? Sheesh!


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Here are stats from the Lewis Mehl study in 1978. Think of how much the c/s rate has INCREASED since then, too.

Quote:

Neonatal Outcomes Hospital/Home:

In the hospital, 3.7 times as many babies required resuscitation.

Infection rates of newborns were 4 times higher in the hospital.

There was 2.5 times as many cases of meconium aspiration pneumonia in the hospital group.

There were 6 cases of neonatal lungwater syndrome in the hospital and none at home.

There were 30 birth injuries (mostly due to forceps) in the hospital group, and none at home.

The incidence of respiratory distress among newborns was 17 times greater in the hospital than in the home.

While neonatal and perinatal death rates were statistically the same for both groups, Apgar scores (a measure of physical well being of the newborn) were significantly worse in the hospital.

(Mehl, L., Peterson, G., Shaw, N.S., Creavy, D. (1978) "Outcomes of 1146 elective home births: a series of 1146 cases." J Repro Med.
19:281-90)
Not to mention MRSA infections which are becoming more and more common...and the large number of hospital errors that occur each year...


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## indie (Jun 16, 2003)

Perhaps you could find a way to reassure him that you could get to a hospital in plenty of time if a c-section were needed, that your midwife would call ahead so the hospital could prep while you were on your way, and that midwives are trained to recognize problems and transfer when appropriate.


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## tinyshoes (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeathenMommy* 
However I showed him the trailer and he FREAKED THE ^@## OUT about me looking at reactionary and inflammatory stuff that "doesn't even apply to you!" So I don't know how openminded this one can be.

I have the perfect video for you.

http://www.itvs.org/bornintheusa/index.html

Quote:

By examining the culture of birth practices in America, BORN IN THE U.S.A. raises questions about technology, safety and quality of care, and it challenges parents to be proactive about getting the kind of care they want and need.
I can't find a copyright date--I'd guess it's late 90s (so, it's current enough.)

It is one hour long, and in true documentary style, the film follows three birthing choices: birth center, home birth, and OB-attended hospital birth. The "biases", or viewpoints of the care providers are explicit; both the female OB and female homebirth midwife care about their birthing mamas, but the OB is so conservative, medical, and worry-ridden, and the midwife trusts birth with her low-risk population.

The birth center, naturally, offers the viewpoint that birth is natural and normal, and there are hospital resources nearby if needed. Also, it's worth noting the birth center offers service to inner-city low-income (therefore a higher risk) population.

The film is so brilliantly done, because without pushing a "pro-natural" agenda, just depicting honestly the three options pushes that reality home. The "what ifs" and "but she couldda died" concerns your dh has will be echoed by the OBs, and he will relate to that, but be a bit challenged to see if that's what he wants for _this_ wife _this_ time.

My own father is convinced that my mother almost died in childbirth. He is horrified when I am pregnant, because he fears for my life. He was not excited about my last homebirth, and congratulated me for not dying, basically. I have spoken with him on the topic, educated him about what was happening to my mother, I am a DONA-certified doula telling him this stuff, but I think there can be an elemental fear of childbirth for men that logic can't erase.

This video is available at many public libraries--my local library, the decently-funded Minneapolis Public Library System, didn't have it, but another library (the U of Minnesota's biomed library) DID have it....the secret is to talk to a librarian, who can help you inter-library loan ANYTHING you want....for SURE in the DC area you could get your hands on a copy (maybe they even have a VHS on the shelf of your birth center!)

Good luck. You deserve the birth *you* want.


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## anne1006 (Jul 1, 2007)

It's good that you are only like 12-13 weeks, you have time to work on him! My DH was very against homebirth, but I made him go with me to interview a midwife and on the way (little over an hour) I hammered him with the info that I learned and how I haven't found a research study against homebirth that was reliable. He was still against it and kept bringing up that our son is healthy and we both turned out fine so why am I such a nut? I kept telling him that there is more than one way to get to a destination and I wanted the best route, not just one that "gets me there". I had a lot of birth trauma and painful recovery from tearing but he still had the conception of "healthy in the end---goal met" but then realized that my passion on the subject had purpose and became more open to it, even when our insurance wouldn't cover it.
I also had told him previously that I would never push towards homebirth, but as we get more educated we have a right to change our minds. Sure, when you start reading the claims against the medical world seem inflammatory and far fetched, and most people are "fine"... but.... fine isnt' good enough and trauma and injury to mom and baby are far more common than recorded in statistics. Be strong, don't let him manipulate you. Keep researching and make him go with to a midwife appt and let him try to argue with her. He needs to understand that this is a scary thing for you too and he needs to take into consideration that he is just a bystander and you will be the one at risk in the hospital, not him. I would also just schedule an appt at the birth center to interview the midwives. If he goes, discuss it, if he doesn't, then make your own decisions.
I really believe that the vagina has the final say...


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## Mindi22 (Jun 28, 2005)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum

If he's swayed at all by honest to goodness research (as opposed to individual stories), this is a great article to point him towards. The conclusion reads:

Quote:

CONCLUSIONS: Caesarean delivery independently reduces overall risk in breech presentations and risk of intrapartum fetal death in cephalic presentations but increases the risk of severe maternal and neonatal morbidity and mortality in cephalic presentations.
To turn it into English - if baby is breech, a c-section seems to reduce risk. But a section increases risks for both mom and baby in head down presentations.

(yes, as some have noted, this seems to have been published in the journal of Duh!)

I feel your pain in trying to work with your DH. I'm due in Feb, and I wanted a home birth very badly, but due to finances (mostly) and DH's comfort (partially) we decided that we're birthing at a hospital birthing center (there are no local free-standing birthing centers). I get how important it is to have the support of your partner, and sometimes that means that both of you have to make compromises. However, I think a birthing center is enough of a compromise for you to make (as opposed to UC or Homebirth), and he needs to do a little work now to understand where you're coming from.

I agree with the pp who said that your opinion should be default and he needs to convince you about his. Make the birth center appointment, and go from there!









Good luck!


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

There was something very recent (last year I think) that said it turns out it's not true that cesareans reduce the risk for breech babies.


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## catnip (Mar 25, 2002)

I had an OB that promised me everything I wanted at my prenatal visits, we couldn't afford a homebirth midwife, and there were no birthing centers locally.

I had a birth plan that called for intermittent and hands on monitoring, free movement, "alternative" birthing positions, etc, etc. The doctor even promised a note in my file to call her in, even if she wasn't on call, and she'd come if she could.

There's a link to my birth story in my sig. Suffice to say, things did not go as planned. The hospital staff was very unhappy with compromising with me on anything that deviated from their flow chart, and the postnatal care was exactly everything I'd feared. If not for a familial tendency to have regular, strong contractions for many, many hours without measureable cervical change and then dialate and birth in less than an hour, things would have gone... badly.

As it was, they didn't believe I was really in labor, sent me home, and I _barely_ made it back on time. And I mean barely. 13 minutes from the nurses' station to birth.

I hope things work out for you.


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

i agree with shelley, because she agrees with me.

as i mentioned before, and as shelley said, it is important to make the convincing up to him.

even if you agreed to a hospital birth initially, people can and do change their minds when they get more/new information. and, this is what you have done.

assert that you've done your research, that this is what you want, and for you to go back on this new decision, he has to convince you with his research.

and, my husband knows he has no say in the birth planning. i ask for his opinion, but he has no "say."

yes, it's his baby too, but that baby is entirely in my care until it is born and even then, that baby is predominently in my care (due to breastfeeding, etc).

his part is to support me and to protect me from those who do not support me. it's not to usurp my personal power, to make choices for me, and to have ultimate power in the relationship.

my husband also knows that anything having to do with my body, that he even *thinks* that he gets to make a decision about (without me being unconscious or incapacitated in some way), means that i walk.

yes, you heard it right.

and he's known it from the beginning.

I am fierce.

and that's one of many things he likes about me.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
my husband also knows that anything having to do with my body, that he even *thinks* that he gets to make a decision about (without me being unconscious or incapacitated in some way), means that i walk.

yes, you heard it right.

and he's known it from the beginning.

I am fierce.

and that's one of many things he likes about me.

Amen! Real men aren't intimidated by strong women.


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## pixiepunk (Mar 11, 2003)

well, my opinion has seriously changed since reading your updates. if he's not going to listen to the rational, statistical proof he asked for, then it's a whole different ball game.

my initial gut reaction is always to give someone the benefit of the doubt. i don't know your DH, so I can only offer advice based on what I would do in a similar situation. It's hard for me to imagine, really, that as scared for a good reason as a person might be that they wouldn't change their mind after reading unbiased statistical information about the safety of out of hospital birth (and the risks associated with hospital births - especially c-sections). My SIL (DH's sister) had two really scary medicalized birth experiences, one of which DH was there to witness first-hand in the delivery room. if anything, that convinced him even more that he didn't want our birth experience to go down like that.

anyway, my advice to you now is much the same as everyone else's. make your appointment at the birth center. tell him that if he thinks he can find statistical evidence to convince you that it's safer to birth in a hospital, he's welcome to try and that (unlike him) you'll be happy to review his research. i would also most definitely find a doula you love, and consider taking her to your Bradley classes. You might also consider Hypnobirthing classes if your DH is willing to attend those with you - the fear release session alone would be worth the price of admission for you both.

do you know more about the story of his ex's birth? knowing what exactly happened would allow you (or better yet, your midwife) to address those issues and how they either wouldn't happen out of the hospital (ie: baby wouldn't descend and mom couldn't move around due to epidural, eventually causing baby's distress and ultimate c/s) or how it would be handled if an event that truly warranted a c/s occurred (ie: cord prolapse).


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## AlwaysLearning (Sep 23, 2002)

Ultimately, the decision is up to you.
But please take your husband's concerns into consideration. Is there a way you can compromise? Such as delivering at a hospital with a midwife and a doula? That might put his mind at ease. You can have a natural birth at a hospital. Women do it all the time, but you have to make preparations, as you already know.


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## HeathenMommy (Nov 5, 2007)

Well, Hubby and I have agreed that he's gonna do the reading I suggest to him, and thanks again for all the great advice here.

He's disgusted by the poor woman who was amputated because of a hospital infection.
He read the "C Section in A Culture of Fear" article from last issue of Mothering and didn't like it... He just thinks that "Well you'll tell the doc what you want and that's exactly what will happen. Just say no cut, no section and no pit, and that's what you'll have."

So, now I've copied a bunch of the stories from "Pushed" about women who didn't get what they had been promised, and la di da. He's gonna read this and at the end, I'm making up my mind and what will happen is up to me. I'd like him to be on board, but I'm too tired and I refuse to go into the L/D suite prepared for war.

I'm auditioning a few doulas, but I'm also thinking about actually getting a big huge, meathead-looking bodyguard to com in and be my companion too. 'Cause Hubby's already used up his one request! He can't say, "No male birth companion!"


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## etoilech (Mar 25, 2004)

My clincher is this. Tell him to find one study that says hospital birth is safer than home birth or ABC for a low risk woman. He can't. End of argument.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Actually ACOG supposedly did that study... though I'm pretty sure they threw in unplanned homebirths so that skewed the results obviously.


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## Organicavocado (Mar 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeathenMommy* 
If I can find an MD (not PhD) who delivered her baby at home or in a birthing center, he'll stop fighting me.

If this is what it takes to get him to stop controlling you, I can provide an OB who had her baby at a birthing center.. and I think her most recent was born at home.

If he's digging his reading, my husband liked Thinking Woman's Guide. I hope if the education fails you will put your foot down and birth the way you feel you need to. He needs to get over his biases... i don't think you need to compromise at all.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *busybusymomma* 
Actually ACOG supposedly did that study... though I'm pretty sure they threw in unplanned homebirths so that skewed the results obviously.









THe Pang study? I'm pretty sure they included miscarriages as homebirths as well. @@


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeathenMommy* 
He read the "C Section in A Culture of Fear" article from last issue of Mothering and didn't like it... He just thinks that "Well you'll tell the doc what you want and that's exactly what will happen. Just say no cut, no section and no pit, and that's what you'll have."

FWIW, I was wheeled into my first section saying, "no - I don't want a c-section - I don't want one - no" over and over...until the anesthetic knocked me out.

I "consented" to my third c-section when the OB told me - at 41w, 4d and after two weeks of off-again-on-again prodromal labour - that if I didn't have the surgery, he'd drop me from care.

I hope you can get through to your dh, because he's living in a dream world.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeathenMommy* 
He just thinks that "Well you'll tell the doc what you want and that's exactly what will happen. Just say no cut, no section and no pit, and that's what you'll have."

If he's willing to do the reading, you might want to consider having him read Robbie Davis-Floyd's article Obstetric Training as a Rite of Passage and/or any of the articles here.

Keep us posted


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## Shanana (May 11, 2005)

I'm sorry that this is turning out to be so hard for you







. I agree that it's your body, your birth, and in the end you get to say how it goes. But I also think that you want your dh on your side, and if he is fearful, angry, etc., that has the potential for having a very negative affect on your birth (not to mention your relationship!).

I've skimmed through most of the posts, and I have something to say that I don't think has been mentioned ...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeathenMommy* 
However I showed him the trailer and he FREAKED THE ^@## OUT about me looking at reactionary and inflammatory stuff that "doesn't even apply to you!" So I don't know how openminded this one can be.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiepunk* 
well, my opinion has seriously changed since reading your updates. if he's not going to listen to the rational, statistical proof he asked for, then it's a whole different ball game.

It sounds like your dh is not interested in hearing the research, seeing the studies, or frankly, considering anything that might change his mind. I want to share a story about my dh that might be relevant.

I'm 35 years old and 16 weeks pregnant. My first birth was in a hospital-based birth center. This time I want a homebirth, and I don't want to do any testing, ultrasounds, doppler, etc. DH was totally on board with the homebirth, but not so keen on the no testing. He brought it up to me, told me he didn't want a baby with Down Syndrome, I was 35 and "high risk", etc. I was determined not to do the testing, but I didn't put my foot down initially. I told him he had a right to his fears, and asked him to do the research to find out a) what was the statistical risk for DS at my age, b) what were the risks of the tests, and c) what was the accuracy of the tests. Once he came back with this data, we would discuss it and make a decision. I was 99% certain the data would support my choice, just as you can be certain that the research supports your choice to birth at home or at a birth center. Well, days passed and dh didn't lift a finger to do the research (although he did spend hours playing computer games














. In the meantime, I passed on bits and pieces of info I picked up here at MDC, which he would argue about, telling me I couldn't decide not to have a test based just on "X". We started bickering, and had some pretty ugly moments. And yet, he _still_ didn't do any research. After days of this I finally got sick of waiting, and did the research myself. I presented the results to him, told him there was nothing there that changed my mind, and I wasn't going to do the testing. Period. He was not thrilled, but he didn't have any evidence that refuted my choice.

Okay, fine. I "won". But something else I realized during this process was that I don't think dh even really cared about the testing. He _thought_ he did, and he _thought_ he was afraid of having a child with DS, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't about that at all. So what was it about? I think dh has a lot of fears about this pregnancy, but he doesn't think they're "allowable" or "acceptable", so he hides them (maybe even from himself). I had to do a bit of mind-reading, but I'm guessing he's afraid of having another child and how it will change our lives. He's afraid of having a newborn again, and how fricking tired we'll be. We're just getting to the point of having some time for our own interests and pursuits again (dd is going on 2.5), and now we'll be going back to square one. Maybe he's afraid of how the pg will affect me. Or he's afraid I'll die during birth (independent of where I'm birthing -- I think this is actually a very common fear that men have, even if they support things such as homebirth, UC, etc.). Who knows what else, but I think he has a lot of fears ... very normal and understandable fears (heck, I have a lot of those fears myself







). But for whatever reason, he does not believe they're acceptable. He doesn't think he has the right to those fears. He doesn't think he can share them with me. Perhaps, he has deemed them so unacceptable that he has pushed them out of _his_ conscious mind. But the _fear_ is still there. So he had to find an "acceptable" way to get it out. He happened to settle on "you're 35 and high risk for DS!!!!!" although he just as easily could have chosen homebirth, etc.

The fact that your dh is being so very irrational about all of this, refusing to listen to the research, calling things "reactionary" and "inflammatory" (he hasn't even seen the movie














, and in general just refusing to participate in a reasoned, researched discussion, makes me wonder if the same thing is going on with him. He has fear (or fears), and has decided to funnel all of them into this one place (probably unconsciously). It's his way of trying to manage the fear(s) and keep from feeling completely overwhelmed by them.

It doesn't mean it's your job to "fix" the situation, or even to necessarily help him with his fears (I think a lot of the time, this isn't even possible because they won't even admit the fears to themselves). I opened a discussion with dh, asked if he had any fears about the pg/birth/new baby, mentioned the ones that I had, and he still adamantly maintained that he had no fears and all was well







(someone very wisely pointed out to me that he probably thinks he needs to "care for me" and "protect me" and denies his own fears in a dysfunctional attempt to do this). But, it might still be helpful for you if you understand the underlying situation. It's insanely frustrating to feel like you're beating your head on a brick wall and dealing with someone who is totally irrational for absolutely no reason -- that you can figure out anyway! If he's doing what I'm suggesting, then it at least gives an explanation for his behavior, why he's being so irrational, etc. It might also mean that the answer isn't presenting him with the data, or compiling a case worthy of the Supreme Court to defend your position. Because none of it will matter







.

I don't know if this is what is going on, but I thought I would mention my experience on the off chance it would be helpful. If this is the case, I don't know what the solution is. In my case, dh was willing to fold in the face of my evidence, even though he wasn't happy about it (another clue that it really didn't have anything to do with what we were arguing about -- if the research supports my position, then he should be convinced and happy that we're making the right choice!). But I'm very strong willed and he isn't, so he just let me have my way, and thankfully has not seemed bitter or resentful. I don't know what will happen in your case, but maybe understanding what is driving your dh will help you come up with a better way to resolve the situation.

Best of luck and lots of







s. Oh, and I've heard that The Business of Being Born will be available through Netflix at some point, although on the Netflix site it says "release date is unknown; availability is not guaranteed."


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## HeathenMommy (Nov 5, 2007)

So next week Hubby and I are supposed to sit down with the OB we've agreed to use so far... I'm not expecting that she won't feed us a line of hospital approved pap... (can I say pap?)

I'll update once there's anything more to add.

But in the meantime, are there any other message boards with similar topics that you frequent? I'm wondering if there are other similar perspectives out there.


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## Olerica (Nov 19, 2007)

I can understand how conflicting this could be. DH is opposed to a home birth but is open to a birthing center. He was nervous about waterbirth until I did a ton of research.

I'm sure that his concern is over loosing you and/or baby. I agree with the approach that more education on his part is warranted. The last birth that he was attached to had "complications" with a result of the cesearian. He equates this scarry birth thing (for him - you are uncomfortable and he wants to protect you) with an emergency procedure. Sounds like he's a good guy who is terribly mis-informed.

Let us know what the result is.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

I frimly believe that your dh should at least go with you to interview at a birth center and ask questions. Without this compromise, he is really invalidating your concerns and your hopes for this birth. I think that men look at birth in a very black and white way (the medical model is based on a linear, male-oriented view of the body) -

If, after the interview, he still feels iffy perhaps reading some information will help.

If he doesn't at least do some work on his own, I'd say that it's not as important to him as it is to you and it's your decision. With my ex, if he disagreed with something in relation to parenting, we both brought our statistics and information to the table to discuss. Without him doing any homework, it's totally insulting to your views.


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## quarteralien (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Justthatgirl* 
That's exactly what I did. In fact, I told dh, "If I have to birth this baby in the woods by myself, so be it." I would not set foot in a hospital for birth again. Dh could join me in my homebirth or not, but it was going to be MY way, not his.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I just want to say, this has been my fantasy birth since before I conceived the first time.







I'm looking forward to it, finally.


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## newmama8824 (Jul 8, 2007)

Okay, he may have helped in making this baby when it comes down to, your body is the one that is carrying it and you are the one that is going to birth this child, therefor, you put YOUR foot down and explain to him why you want this and that it is ultimately your decision.


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## anne1006 (Jul 1, 2007)

I agree that you should at least have an interview at the birth center with him so he can ask questions. You already know that you don't want to do this at the hospital, and it seems you've made up your mind that you do want to go to the birth center. This is your body and health that is at stake here, not just the baby's. I regret the choices I made at my first birth so much, and resented myself for my decisions and my caving under pressure, and resented those that pushed me and scared me into making those deicisions. I would hate for you to come away from this feeling the same. Relationships are indeed about compromise, but when it is such an important thing that affects you so much more than him you may need to put yourself first.
Good luck at the OB, but like you said, he/she's probably just gonna feed you a line of BS anyways, and your hubby will be all gung ho about it.


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