# Carseat/Booster Seat Question



## BlueIrises (Jul 23, 2006)

At what age do you put your toddler in a booster? My son Jack (19m)is currently in a Blvd and my son Liam (3m) is in a snugride. I'm predicting having to put Liam in a rear-facing convertible around Jan...Jack was about 8-9m when he switched carseats. Liam is already about 15lb and growing like a weed so I know he will max out of the weight fast.

The trouble is we have a Forester and you can not fit two rear-facing carseats in the back. So the Blvd with Jack in it is foward facing and the infant seat is obviously rear-facing. So since it isn't even possible to put two Blvd rear-facing in my car, I am wondering if I should just bump Jack up to a Britax booster and give Liam the Blvd. Or do I buy another Blvd b/c Jack is too young/small (he is currently about 30lbs). Jack will be 25mo come Jan.

ETA: When I say booster I mean one that still has the 5-point harness...I don't mean moving my baby to a lap belt...I should have been more clear


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## katie9143 (Oct 3, 2006)

since you already forward face him, i think i would invest in the regent rather than another blvd. that one will last him till he doesnt need a carseat anymore (80lbs i think) which seems like in the long run will be most cost effective. imo

i bet the mods will move this over to the safety board anyway and there are lots of smart carseat techs that post over there, so im sure someone will correct me if there is a better option!

gl


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## tabasco (Dec 20, 2007)

You might get better responses if you post this question in Family Safety. There are several CPSTs who post there.

Anyway, my non-expert opinion is that there is no way I would put a child that young in a booster seat! Obviously the best option is to have your children RF to the limits of the car seat. But if it really is impossible for your older son to RF, then it is by far safer to have him FF in a car seat than in a booster seat. It is difficult for me to imagine a 2-year-old who could even begin to meet the requirements for sitting safely in a booster--and I cannot fathom wanting to put a child that young in a booster, anyway.


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## IlluminatedAttic (Aug 25, 2006)

I agree that you should post on the Family Safety board, but also consider making an appointment with a carseat safety tech. My sister thought there was no way to fit two rear-facing seats in her car but the tech was able to do it with one base removed. He stated that even with the base removed the child was much safer. Perhaps a tech would have an arrangement you have not thought of.


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

I'd see a tech to try and get 2 RFing seats in, too.
Your toddler definitely needs to be in a harness for another 2-3 yrs. minimum. I'd consider the Britax Frontier or the Graco Nautilus as a good new seat for him-- they'll keep him in a harness until 6-7, then convert to a booster. The Frontier has a 9 yr. expiration, so it'll last your 2 yr. old until he no longer needs a seat.


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

I 3rd or 4th the family safety board, you'll get lots of great info. I would not put a child that young in a booster. My dd is almost 7 yo and she is still in a 5pt harness. We got a Graco Nautilus. If you have to have him forward facing, it would be worth looking into. My 23mo is rear facing in a Evenflo Titan and they both fit in the back of my Grand Prix.


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## hergrace (Oct 9, 2003)

I forget the age that is a suggested minimum for a booster, but 40 lbs is a bare minimum to move into a seat that uses the car seat belt. Less than 40 lbs won't engage the seatbelt. In some states, 40 lbs is also the legal minimum.


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hergrace* 
I forget the age that is a suggested minimum for a booster, but 40 lbs is a bare minimum to move into a seat that uses the car seat belt. Less than 40 lbs won't engage the seatbelt. In some states, 40 lbs is also the legal minimum.

The bare minimum age is 4, but I wouldn't put a 4 yr. old in a booster unless I had no other options (ie, they were over 80 lbs., or 65 in Canada).


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## KD's Momma (Oct 24, 2004)

my 4 yo is 32 lbs and we moved him into the Safety 1st Deluxe High Back Belt Positioning Booster. i just didn't fell comfortable with him not being in something that didn't have a harness and thus changes into a seatbelt positioner when he is ready for it - like when he is 12


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## BlueIrises (Jul 23, 2006)

Thanks for the info on the boosters...I hadn't researched any info on them and have no clue what there limits were yet...I was just putting feelers out there as to what other moms have done. I wasn't being dense by asking about a booster for a two year old...I certainly wasn't meaning a booster w/o a 5-point harness...I thought maybe the Frontier was the next step...it looks like a booster but still has the five point harness...I research everything before doing...I was just looking for some BTDT info to gear maybe what products to look for. I will look into the Regent but is the Frontier not appropriate. I like that it has the head protection that the Blvd has and the Regent does not.

I have tried both carseats RF with and w/o the base...it just doesn't fit...anyone with a Forester will agree that two carseats do not fit in the back RF...we can only use the middle and passenger side in the rear and they do not fit next to each other RF. Besides the infant seat only fits in the center spot whether alone or with another seat...it doesn't fit behind the passenger seat. The Forester is the worst family car ever. We hope to get a minivan maybe next summer but who knows...


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

I wonder if perhaps a different brand of seat might make the two RF seats possible. For instance, the Radian (which I believe works well in the Forester), which is extremely narrow, and often puzzles well with the boulevard. The Radian would also last you longer than a second Boulevard when used FF (more torso room, more years before expiration, and more room in general . . . my 5-year-olds are squished in Boulevards now, but have plenty of room in their Radians).

Don't forget that a rear-facing seat for a toddler does not need to be nearly so reclined as a RF seat for a newborn. An upright, RF seat may well fit behind your Driver's seat.

HTH!

Lex


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

You absolutely can get 2 seats RF'ing in the back seat. The Snugride is on the wide side. If it were me, and my 19mo, I would get the baby a Radian and put that RFing in the center, and put the Boulevard RFing outboard for the older child.


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

I don't see why a 30 degree angle RFing seat wouldn't fit behind the driver's seat? I can do that with my DS, almost 18 months, in our Pontiac Vibe. I would recomend getting an appointment with a CPST before making a big purchase.


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## ScotiaSky (Jul 2, 2004)

DH has a Subaru (99 Legacy Outback, not sure how the back seat differs between the years/models though) It most defiantly has it issues regarding car seat installation but I could easily get two RF seats in it outboard. Is it the front to back space that is the problem?

Like PP mentioned an older child does not need to have the seat reclined as much as an infant seat or an infant in a convertible does so that gives you more space to work with.

But I have said it before and will say it again but I have found that the Evenflo Triumph Advance takes up a lot less space rear facing front to back then other convertibles if that is the issue.

I second to finding a tech to help you out in that department if you wish to keep your oldest rear facing. Otherwise PP have mentioned several great seats for FF your oldest and then put the youngest in the BLVD.

Just a note on the Radian Now I know others can make it happen but I have tried again again and again with every trick in the book and have installed the Radian in at least 10 different cars and planes but the Subaru and a FF Radian by seatbelt is just not happening.


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## BlueIrises (Jul 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lexbeach* 
I wonder if perhaps a different brand of seat might make the two RF seats possible. For instance, the Radian (which I believe works well in the Forester), which is extremely narrow, and often puzzles well with the boulevard. The Radian would also last you longer than a second Boulevard when used FF (more torso room, more years before expiration, and more room in general . . . my 5-year-olds are squished in Boulevards now, but have plenty of room in their Radians).

Don't forget that a rear-facing seat for a toddler does not need to be nearly so reclined as a RF seat for a newborn. An upright, RF seat may well fit behind your Driver's seat.

HTH!

Lex

We tried not having the Blvd reclined it is not the recline that is messing us up in the Forester it is how the two seats bump up against each other...the Blvd when RF pushes the snugride onto its side so it is not flat against the back seat.

I'll have to read up on the Radian to see what that is all about. Thanks

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
You absolutely can get 2 seats RF'ing in the back seat. The Snugride is on the wide side. If it were me, and my 19mo, I would get the baby a Radian and put that RFing in the center, and put the Boulevard RFing outboard for the older child.

No you can't get the two carseats we have RF in a Forester. As my PP mentioned, the snugride does not fit behind the passenger seat...it only fits in the middle. Besides if you reread my post, I am not looking for carseats for my 3mo and 19mo now...I am trying to plan ahead for later on when my children are about 9m and 25m.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemyavery* 
I don't see why a 30 degree angle RFing seat wouldn't fit behind the driver's seat? I can do that with my DS, almost 18 months, in our Pontiac Vibe. I would recomend getting an appointment with a CPST before making a big purchase.

You do realize you are comparing two different cars. You can't compare apples to oranges. Due to our height and the need for the driver's seat to be back so we fit leg-wise. It doesn't work.

As for having a professional install our infant seat, we had that done when our first son was born and the only place and infant seat fit was in the middle. Unless you own a Forester, you have no idea how ridiculously small the backseat is. We bought the car prior to having children thinking it was a great family car and we were shocked when we brought the car to the police station to have the carseat installed.

The outback has a larger rear seat...we asked the Suburu people last summer when we were thinking about trading our car in. As for the fit...it is both the front to back spacing and also the side by side arragement with the two carseats. When in the middle of the Forster, the snugride jets out btwn the two front seats...enough so that you have to fold forward the dront seats to actually get the carseat into and out of the base. We cannot put both front seats back as far as our legs need them to be...not a big deal for the passenger as that is just a comfort issue but it sucks for the driver to have drive a bit closer than we normally would choose. When we stitched to the RF Blvd, it was so much better...everyone in the fron was happy and the Blvd didn't jet as far into the front as the snugride b/c it is upright. Putting it behind the passenger seat forces the seat to be too close to the dash. When my younger son was born and we tried every configuration in our car, the only way to get them both in is with the snugride in the middle, and the Blvd FF on the passenger side. Both front seats are more forward than is comfortable for both driver and passenger.

I have made peace with the FF of my son Jack which I know is to the horror of all moms here...he was a screamer RF anyway and I am actually quite happy to not have to drive with one hand on the wheel and one hand in the back seat holding his face, ear, hand or whatever I could reach when he was RF in his Blvd...imagine a 9m pregnant woman driving all contorted trying to keep her child calm every day...so I don't fret the FF as I can now drive with both hands on the wheel and we are all safer for that. I know I can keep Liam RF much longer as now they can look at each other and that will keep him from screaming. I am just wondering what direction I should look for our next carseat purchase. Do I get another Blvd as I like the safety features of the Blvd and then still have to trade up for both boys down the line? Or do I get Jack some kind of booster w/a 5pt harness such as the Frontier and put Liam in the Blvd? What I do know is that I want the head protection feature for the booster or whatever we move to next...I'm not sure what brands offer that besides Britax.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

I installed a Snugride behind the front seat of a Forrester just fine.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

a friend of mine has 2 rf'ing seats in her forester.....blvd's.

i would keep both rf'ing until 35 lbs and then get a frontier


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Hm, wow. That's a small back seat... we have a Snugride behind the driver's seat in our Accord, and DH is 5'10" and likes to slouch (so, the seat is also reclined somewhat).

If you're really sure you want to keep him front-facing, the Frontier harnesses to 80 pounds (or until shoulders are even with the top strap position, which will likely come first), and then converts to a belt-positioning booster. It has a 9-year expiration, too. That's what we got for Donovan so that Raphael can use his Marathon until its expiration (at which point we'll probably get a Boulevard, unless something better has come along or he's already 35 pounds or something). Hopefully Donovan will have grown into the seat belt by the time Raph outgrows the convertible, and then R can use the Frontier until it expires or he grows into the seat belt.

But the data on rear-facing is compelling: kids are four or five times (depends on the source) more likely to die in a car accident if they're forward-facing than if they're rear-facing. It may be worth looking up a local CPST and giving it a shot. Note that oftentimes, police and fire stations that do "car seat checks" don't actually have a certified tech available; make sure that the person who checks your seat is certified.


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## cognito (Nov 30, 2007)

Sometimes a convertible does take up less space RFing than an infant seat, but it doesn't always work out. Just understand best practice is always what is recommended here. It is the Family Safety Board afterall.









Having said that, I understand your difficulty. I have a 2 door SUV with only 2 backseats. 2 RFing convertibles will not be an option for us either. I have an 18mo still RFing & close to outgrowing his seat. While it would be great to get him a RFing convertible that will last longer it just doesn't make sense. The baby will be out of the bucket by then. I also have a 2mo in a bucket right now. Once the little guy outgrows the infant seat he will be getting his big brother's convertibles. My older one will be FFing & we're looking at something like the Graco Nautilus for him. It might be a good option for you, but the Regent & Frontier would also be great if they fit your budget & your car.

I'm also lucky to not have a screamer. My boys are very content in the car & I'm very thankful for that. I don't know how you do it.


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## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

I agree with trying one of those carseat clinics about fit.

That said my mother has a Forester and whenever we visit her the carseats are always an issue, I can bearly get two front facing marathons into her car. It's backseat is suprisingly small.

My vote would be something like the Regent/Frontier and put the baby in the Blvd.


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## BlueIrises (Jul 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
I installed a Snugride behind the front seat of a Forrester just fine.

YOu both must be very short b/c we can't do it and drive.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eman'smom* 
I agree with trying one of those carseat clinics about fit.

That said my mother has a Forester and whenever we visit her the carseats are always an issue, I can bearly get two front facing marathons into her car. It's backseat is suprisingly small.

My vote would be something like the Regent/Frontier and put the baby in the Blvd.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You have obviously read my post and understood my question.

Again this wasn't a thread about RF vs FF...I was looking for info on a booster or a second Blvd...it is so frustrating to ask a question and have the question diverted by other people's agenda...I appreciate the info but I am well aware of the risk I am taking having one son FF...that is not what I was asking about...I wanted booster seat rec's.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueIrises* 
Again this wasn't a thread about RF vs FF...I was looking for info on a booster or a second Blvd...it is so frustrating to ask a question and have the question diverted by other people's agenda...I appreciate the info but I am well aware of the risk I am taking having one son FF...that is not what I was asking about...I wanted booster seat rec's.

Nobody is going to recommend a FF seat for a 19 month old. Sorry if that doesn't thrill you, but it's just not safe.


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## BlueIrises (Jul 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Nobody is going to recommend a FF seat for a 19 month old. Sorry if that doesn't thrill you, but it's just not safe.

It wasn't about recommending FF for my 19mo...I was asking about a carseat suggestion for my son when he was 25 months old...reread my original post...it had nothing to do with asking about FF my son...it specifically asked about what seat I should buy him next...if you are not responding to that question that don't respond to my post...


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueIrises* 
It wasn't about recommending FF for my 19mo...I was asking about a carseat suggestion for my son when he was 25 months old...reread my original post...it had nothing to do with asking about FF my son...it specifically asked about what seat I should buy him next...if you are not responding to that question that don't respond to my post...

When he is 25 months, if he is above 35 pounds, I would get him a Regent or a Frontier. If you have space concerns, get the Frontier. If you need them next to each other, get a Radian for the FF child and put him in the center, since he is most at risk. The baby can be quite upright once he has good head control.

Better?


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## ScotiaSky (Jul 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueIrises* 
It wasn't about recommending FF for my 19mo...I was asking about a carseat suggestion for my son when he was 25 months old...reread my original post...it had nothing to do with asking about FF my son...it specifically asked about what seat I should buy him next...if you are not responding to that question that don't respond to my post...

Really though you did mention in your OP about not being able to get two RF seats in your car.

Quote:

The trouble is we have a Forester and you can not fit two rear-facing carseats in the back.
So many would assume that since this is a a problem for you they would offer helpful suggestions on how to get two RF seat in it. If you did not want suggestions why even mention that you are unable to RF two seats but whatever.


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## BlueIrises (Jul 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
When he is 25 months, if he is above 35 pounds, I would get him a Regent or a Frontier. If you have space concerns, get the Frontier. If you need them next to each other, get a Radian for the FF child and put him in the center, since he is most at risk. The baby can be quite upright once he has good head control.

Better?









Thank you I will look into all three of those seats.


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## BlueIrises (Jul 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ScotiaSky* 
Really though you did mention in your OP about not being able to get two RF seats in your car.

So many would assume that since this is a a problem for you they would offer helpful suggestions on how to get two RF seat in it. If you did not want suggestions why even mention that you are unable to RF two seats but whatever.

I'm not looking to go tit for tat with anyone...the quote you picked out was from a response to someone who again wasn't answering my initial question about booster seat vs Blvd rec's...so I had to clarify why I was choosing the path I am already set on. My first post was not looking to debate FF v RF.

I have enough suggestions for seats to research, I don't need anyone else to chime in b/c this is just getting annoying anyway. Thank you to those who were helpful.


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## nevaehsmommy (Aug 6, 2007)

What about the Graco Nautilus? I know it harness up to 65 pounds. Dont know how small a frontier back seat is though. I was looking at one for my daughter.


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## Rachhcar (Dec 29, 2006)

I have been wondering about this as well. We have an older car and are not getting a minivan. My kiddos are 1 and 3, and I want the safest for them. I am considering the Radian, even though they are pricey. It's best always to put safety first!


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## BlueIrises (Jul 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nevaehsmommy* 
What about the Graco Nautilus? I know it harness up to 65 pounds. Dont know how small a frontier back seat is though. I was looking at one for my daughter.

I'll check that out. I still have lots of time but I like to plan ahead. Thanks!


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
When he is 25 months, if he is above 35 pounds, I would get him a Regent or a Frontier. If you have space concerns, get the Frontier. If you need them next to each other, get a Radian for the FF child and put him in the center, since he is most at risk. The baby can be quite upright once he has good head control.

Better?









While I agree with these suggestions, just FTR, I had a Radian in the center back of a 2003 Forester. It was the single hardest installation I've ever done, and as a CPST I've played with a lot of seats in a lot of cars. I highly recommend that if you go that route, you find a CPST to check the installation.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Oops, yeah sorry I forgot the Nautilus.

You could try having your son in the Blvd and getting a Scenera for the baby, since they take up less room RF'ing and are pretty narrow as well.


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## sunnymw (Feb 28, 2007)

I'd say, move baby into the BLVD you already have, on passenger side outboard... and put older child into a Graco Nautilus in the center (least protected child in most protected position). That way you can also move the driver's seat back a lot farther.

Britax seats DO allow bracing--it CAN touch the back of your passenger seat







so that gives you a little more room too, in addition to being able to install it quite upright once your babe is 9mo and has good head control.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueIrises* 
It wasn't about recommending FF for my 19mo...I was asking about a carseat suggestion for my son when he was 25 months old...reread my original post...it had nothing to do with asking about FF my son...it specifically asked about what seat I should buy him next...if you are not responding to that question that don't respond to my post...

many ppl respond to posts not simply to answer the OP but to also correct information that may come out in a thread b/c there are lots of lurkers on threads that dont post but may accept something that is just posted...so its not really all about you..its about also letting others know that its best to RF to the max. of teh car seat (often 35 lbs. depending on the car seat).
im sorry if you dont like that on your thread, but thats the nature of message boards and you cant really control who responds to a thread you start.


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