# If your dog bit your child...



## BlueWolf (Jul 21, 2008)

If your family dog bit your child in the face, what would you do?


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## candycat (Jun 20, 2010)

Rehome the dog to a home with no children, or have him put to sleep, depending on the aggressiveness of the act (was he just reacting to a strong tail pull or was the child minding his or her business).

DH would probably not even ask questions but take the dog out back himself.







I don't agree with that personally, that's what his mother did when he was attacked by the family dog as a child, and he's said that's what he'd do too.


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## kanga1622 (May 23, 2005)

As much as we love our dog, we'd have him put down. He's got pretty strong allergies so he'd be hard to rehome and I couldn't take the chance that he'd bite some else's guest even if he went to a no child home.

My dad's dog frequently gives warning nips as he hates children. That's going to be hard to deal with when we visit but I know how horrible it could be if DS even touched that dog. He's given kids warning nips/growls for even walking near his edge of the couch while he was curled up there. There is absolutely no way that dog could ever live with us and I see the danger even though he lives in a no child household.


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## lonegirl (Oct 31, 2008)

What was the situation leading to the bite? Yes it matters to me on making a decision.
Even the most tolerant/docile dog can be tormented to the extreme and have a breaking point...


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

It really depends on the dog, the child, and the circumstances.

In our case, our chihuahua nipped my son in the face when he was a year old. We opted to keep the dog (she is very small and we were relatively confident we could prevent further bites by keeping them separated). We've never had another problem, and he is 6 now.

Best of luck to you and your family - I hope you are able to find a solution that works for you!


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

I am sorry if this happened to you.

I would take the dog to the vet and see if it had anything wrong with it - pain can cause aggression.

I would also look at the circumstances around the bite - was it a nip? Was the child teasing the dog - or startled the dog from a deep sleep? etc

If the child was old enough to be trained to not do whatever it had done to cause the bite - i might work on that.

If I felt the dog was not solely at fault, but I could not trust the child to behave (perhaps due to the child being really young), I would rehome the dog.

After considerring all of the above, if I felt the dog was needlessly aggressive, I would have him put down. Truly aggressive dogs should not be rehomed.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathymuggle* 
I am sorry if this happened to you.

I would take the dog to the vet and see if it had anything wrong with it - pain can cause aggression.

I would also look at the circumstances around the bite - was it a nip? Was the child teasing the dog - or startled the dog from a deep sleep? etc

If the child was old enough to be trained to not do whatever it had done to cause the bite - i might work on that.

If I felt the dog was not solely at fault, but I could not trust the child to behave (perhaps due to the child being really young), I would rehome the dog.

After considerring all of the above, if I felt the dog was needlessly aggressive, I would have him put down. Truly aggressive dogs should not be rehomed.

I did all of this and I did behavior training and had a behavior assessment by one of the best in the country, who happened to reside in my city.

Nothing was to be done. We had to put our dog down.

I would not recommend this until all of the above is done.


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## Areia (Mar 5, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lonegirl* 
What was the situation leading to the bite? Yes it matters to me on making a decision.
Even the most tolerant/docile dog can be tormented to the extreme and have a breaking point...

I agree with the above. If for some reason I felt we couldn't keep our dog, I would re-home her to a child-free relative who I know really wants her and would take excellent care of her, but I'd really consider the circumstances before doing this.


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

Quote:

I am sorry if this happened to you.

I would take the dog to the vet and see if it had anything wrong with it - pain can cause aggression.

I would also look at the circumstances around the bite - was it a nip? Was the child teasing the dog - or startled the dog from a deep sleep? etc

If the child was old enough to be trained to not do whatever it had done to cause the bite - i might work on that.

If I felt the dog was not solely at fault, but I could not trust the child to behave (perhaps due to the child being really young), I would rehome the dog.

After considerring all of the above, if I felt the dog was needlessly aggressive, I would have him put down. Truly aggressive dogs should not be rehomed.
This is how I feel as well.

Also, if a young child was left unattended with the dog, and was roughly pulling its tail or ears or otherwise bothering/hurting it, and the dog retaliated, to ME this is clearly not the dog's fault. Even well-trained and docile animals will retaliate in some situations, and to ME this is clearly the parents' fault for not supervising better.

However, if the dog, largely unprovoked, attacked, it's a totally different story.

We have a golden retriever who is very gentle with the kids, yet I always feel that it is my responsibility to protect him from the kids and vice versa. I will leave the two older kids alone with him, because I know they won't provoke him, but I never left them alone with him when they were younger and wouldn't with the baby now. I feel that no matter how gentle and wonderful an animal is, you can never 100% trust a dog not to bite/attack.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

We went through this last fall.







I also highly suggest taking the dog to a behaviorist, we did, her suggestion was putting the dog down.







We ended up finding a miracle of last minute home for him with no children, and years of experience working with aggressive dogs. Had that home not come though then I was prepared for the worst. It was the hardest decision of my life honestly, he was a member of our family, but my children's safety comes first.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peony* 
We went through this last fall.







I also highly suggest taking the dog to a behaviorist, we did, her suggestion was putting the dog down.







We ended up finding a miracle of last minute home for him with no children, and years of experience working with aggressive dogs. Had that home not come though then I was prepared for the worst. It was the hardest decision of my life honestly, he was a member of our family, but my children's safety comes first.

I still cry about it and it was over two years ago. Giz attacked my son twice and numerous attacks on my husband. Giz felt I was his property and no amount of training from us helped the situation. It was horribly depressing. I held him as the techs/vet administered the medicine. I;m crying right now thinking about it.

Seriously LAST resort.


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## shanniesue2 (Jul 4, 2007)

This is not going to be a popular answer... but in my situation with our dog, I would have the dog put down. I absolutely would NOT risk the same thing happening twice. Also, our dog is a pit bull mix... and looks mostly like a pit. I think it would be near impossible to rehome a pit bull with a bite in her history. Plus, she has food allergies and requires expensive food... so I think putting her down would be the route we chose to take.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

If I felt the bite was unprovoked, I'd probably put the dog down. If there was provocation, then I'd probably work with the dog and rehome him/her as soon as possible. That said, a lot of the times I've found the provocation is usually due to not so great supervision between dog and younger child.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greeny* 
This is how I feel as well.

Also, if a young child was left unattended with the dog, and was roughly pulling its tail or ears or otherwise bothering/hurting it, and the dog retaliated, to ME this is clearly not the dog's fault. Even well-trained and docile animals will retaliate in some situations, and to ME this is clearly the parents' fault for not supervising better.

However, if the dog, largely unprovoked, attacked, it's a totally different story.

We have a golden retriever who is very gentle with the kids, yet I always feel that it is my responsibility to protect him from the kids and vice versa. I will leave the two older kids alone with him, because I know they won't provoke him, but I never left them alone with him when they were younger and wouldn't with the baby now. I feel that no matter how gentle and wonderful an animal is, you can never 100% trust a dog not to bite/attack.

Great post. I've read quite a few stories online about people being torn regarding dog bites on their kids. Yet describing the situation, it seems totally preventable! In a few instances, sure, dogs just don't like children and may bite unprovoked. But you cannot leave a young child and a dog alone even for a second. Pet ownership is a responsibility that some do not take seriously enough.


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## Spirit Dancer (Dec 11, 2006)

I would definitely put the dog down- no doubt about it.


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## sunshinejanie (Mar 4, 2010)

I would put it down, no question. Nothing that could be wrong with the dog would even make a difference to me. It happened to my dd, it was someone elses dog. It not only changed her appearance for life but also it changed her in every way.


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## Lady Mayapple (Apr 26, 2010)

This happened when we were kids. My parents bred springer spaniels, and one of the male breeders bit my hand. They placed an ad for him to be re-homed to a childfree owner. He was a fantastic hunting dog, and nearly double the size of most standard springers-he just didn't have any manners or lights on upstairs. The day the man came to get him, he bit my younger sister's face! The man took him anyway....I just hope he never allowed that dog around children.









My dad REALLY wanted to take him out back and shoot him, but because of Uno's hunting talent he stopped himself.


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## BlueWolf (Jul 21, 2008)

Our family dog bit our daughter last night. I didn't know my husband had just fed the dog and my one year old daughter crawled into the dining room where his bowl is located. She wasn't "near" him or pulling on him or harassing him in any form when he turned at bit her in the face... growls, snarls, and everything. I know my dog inside and out and his bite on her was very intentional and he meant to hurt her.

I've done extensive training with this dog already as he is very poorly bred and has a very poor temperament due to that poor breeding. Two seconds of unsupervised time with my daughter landed her in the ER having to have stitches on her nose and lip. Yes, it could have been worse. Yes, it happened because we (as parents) failed to protect our daughter and our dog from this situation.

But I've always felt in my heart that my dog is a ticking time bomb. Despite the years of training I've put into him he's still an incredibly unstable dog. I've done all the training tricks and what have you with the end results of knowing that my dog has severe limitations that can't be trained out and it's up to me to keep him from the situations that I know are dangerous. I've failed and my daughter paid the price.

I think I need to have the dog put down. My husband is having a hard time coming to terms with this. But he knows as well as I do that this dog is not rehomeable due to all his issues, even without his new bite history.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

My first concern would obviously be my child-- plastic surgery, etc. Then I would put the dog down.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

This actually happened in my family.

My brother was eating a hotdog (he was 2 I think...if that old) and one of our dachshunds jumped up and grabbed it from his mouth. My mother said, "Nope, we're done." The dogs (they were sisters and couldn't be separated) were gone within the week. She'd had those dogs longer than I'd been alive. She said it was probably an accident but she didn't want to take that chance.


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## verde (Feb 11, 2007)

This happened to my DD. Our dog is gentle and sweet-tempered. When DD was a toddler, she was poking him and twisting his ears. I did my best to keep them apart and keep an eye on them. One time she got him before I could stop her and he snapped at her. She was shocked and she cried. DH and I reinforced to her that when she hurts the dog, he gets upset and bites back. She learned her lesson and has never done it again. It was a teachable moment and it worked.


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## kcparker (Apr 6, 2008)

In a situation like that, when you have worked with him, know he's got some serious temperament issues, and he bit because of food possessiveness/dominance aggression, I'd do the hard thing and have him put down. You all can't trust him, and I wouldn't pass him on to somebody else given what you said about his instability. Would your husband be able to forgive himself if you didn't euthanize the dog and he bit somebody else or bit your DD again? It is totally sucky, but not worth continuing to risk everybody's safety to keep him around. It sounds like you have given the dog a good life.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kcparker* 
In a situation like that, when you have worked with him, know he's got some serious temperament issues, and he bit because of food possessiveness/dominance aggression, I'd do the hard thing and have him put down. You all can't trust him, and I wouldn't pass him on to somebody else given what you said about his instability. Would your husband be able to forgive himself if you didn't euthanize the dog and he bit somebody else or bit your DD again? It is totally sucky, but not worth continuing to risk everybody's safety to keep him around. It sounds like you have given the dog a good life.

This.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kcparker* 
In a situation like that, when you have worked with him, know he's got some serious temperament issues, and he bit because of food possessiveness/dominance aggression, I'd do the hard thing and have him put down. You all can't trust him, and I wouldn't pass him on to somebody else given what you said about his instability. Would your husband be able to forgive himself if you didn't euthanize the dog and he bit somebody else or bit your DD again? It is totally sucky, but not worth continuing to risk everybody's safety to keep him around. It sounds like you have given the dog a good life.

I agree. I know how hard it is to make this decision, my DH was very opposed as well. Our dog got DD2 in the hand, we did the whole extensive vet exam, kept them separated unless I could watch every second. He bit again and I was literally within arm's reach, and watching, it happened so fast. I couldn't do anything. He got her face that time, minimal damage, thank goodness but that was it. DD1's classmate has severe facial scarring that will require several surgeries as she gets older from a dog bite. It is a chance you do not want to take, you know you can not trust this dog, and you know what you ahve to do now.


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## hildare (Jul 6, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
Our family dog bit our daughter last night. I didn't know my husband had just fed the dog and my one year old daughter crawled into the dining room where his bowl is located. She wasn't "near" him or pulling on him or harassing him in any form when he turned at bit her in the face... growls, snarls, and everything. I know my dog inside and out and his bite on her was very intentional and he meant to hurt her.

I've done extensive training with this dog already as he is very poorly bred and has a very poor temperament due to that poor breeding. Two seconds of unsupervised time with my daughter landed her in the ER having to have stitches on her nose and lip. Yes, it could have been worse. Yes, it happened because we (as parents) failed to protect our daughter and our dog from this situation.

But I've always felt in my heart that my dog is a ticking time bomb. Despite the years of training I've put into him he's still an incredibly unstable dog. I've done all the training tricks and what have you with the end results of knowing that my dog has severe limitations that can't be trained out and it's up to me to keep him from the situations that I know are dangerous. I've failed and my daughter paid the price.

I think I need to have the dog put down. My husband is having a hard time coming to terms with this. But he knows as well as I do that this dog is not rehomeable due to all his issues, even without his new bite history.

In this situation, you should rely upon your instincts. I totally agree that you should put him down, and without guilt, as it sounds like you have made every effort towards rehabilitation. So sorry this happened to you.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

The dog would be gone. Immediately.

This happened to me when I was 3 yo. We had a beloved old family dog. I loved her, she loved me, but I hurt her and she snapped at my nose. As much as my parents loved the dog, they felt that was an indication that we did not need to be in the same house, and they couldn't exactly give me away.









They told me they sent her to a farm where she could run free and not have her whiskers pulled by children. However, she was already very old at the time and I suspect that was the story they made up for me, and she was probably put down.


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## KatWozBlue (Dec 21, 2009)

Two years ago, our dog bit my 4 year old son in the face unprovoked. He was standing behind her and she was sitting in a chair and she turned her face and bit him. I was sitting right next to area where they were and saw the whole thing.

We put her down, there was no question for us. But even if she had been provoked we would have made the same decision, we can not have a dog that is capable of biting a child in our home. For us it was a simple choice between our son and our dog and we picked our son.

She had a good life and though I cried when I knew she was getting put down, it was absolutely the right decision and one that I don't question at all.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Given your 2nd post, I'd say to put the dog down.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

I have 117 stitches in my face from a dog bite as a child. I will never have a dog in a home with children and I am not real willing to allow my kids near them much. I know that lots of people are very defensive about their animals but given my personal experience I don't feel that dogs should be trusted around small children. This was an animal that had never been aggressive in the past and I wasn't tormenting the animal. The animal was pissed because I had displaced him from sleeping in the bedroom my sister was in. Animals are unpredictable and the damage potential is too great.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

It would depend on the situation and in your situation I would have the dog put down.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
Two seconds of unsupervised time with my daughter landed her in the ER having to have stitches on her nose and lip. Yes, it could have been worse. Yes, it happened because we (as parents) failed to protect our daughter and our dog from this situation.

But I've always felt in my heart that my dog is a ticking time bomb. Despite the years of training I've put into him he's still an incredibly unstable

I would have an incredibly hard time putting my dog down for any reason. My dog is my child, and I would tend to say "just make sure it doesn't happen again" type of thing.

BUT, since he bit in the face, and it broke the skin, AND you feel like he's unpredictable, I'd first call around and look into a better situation that your husband is comfortable with... then my next step would be to have him put down. It was break my heart, and I'd live with guilt forever for it... but, I would do it.

I have a dog who is very oversensitive, and has waaay too many feelings for a dog. If anything happened that would cause me to have to put her into some kind of kennel situation, (the pound) I would probably have to have her put down, because she would be so tormented in a kennel that it just wouldn't be worth it. Her quality of life is very important to me. But, some other dogs are perfectly happy in a kennel, and it would give them a good chance at a nice home without children.

You'd just need to find the right balance for your dog (and your husband).


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
Our family dog bit our daughter last night. I didn't know my husband had just fed the dog and my one year old daughter crawled into the dining room where his bowl is located. She wasn't "near" him or pulling on him or harassing him in any form when he turned at bit her in the face... growls, snarls, and everything. I know my dog inside and out and his bite on her was very intentional and he meant to hurt her.

I've done extensive training with this dog already as he is very poorly bred and has a very poor temperament due to that poor breeding. Two seconds of unsupervised time with my daughter landed her in the ER having to have stitches on her nose and lip. Yes, it could have been worse. Yes, it happened because we (as parents) failed to protect our daughter and our dog from this situation.

But I've always felt in my heart that my dog is a ticking time bomb. Despite the years of training I've put into him he's still an incredibly unstable dog. I've done all the training tricks and what have you with the end results of knowing that my dog has severe limitations that can't be trained out and it's up to me to keep him from the situations that I know are dangerous. I've failed and my daughter paid the price.

I think I need to have the dog put down. My husband is having a hard time coming to terms with this. But he knows as well as I do that this dog is not rehomeable due to all his issues, even without his new bite history.

Given this update, I would put the dog down (and I don't say that lightly). How heartbreaking -- I'm so sorry.


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## daytripper75 (Jul 29, 2003)

That dog would be gone faster than lightning.


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

Quote:

But I've always felt in my heart that my dog is a ticking time bomb.
Your answer is right there.

I'm so sorry for your daughter.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
I know my dog inside and out and his bite on her was very intentional and he meant to hurt her. <snip>

Two seconds of unsupervised time with my daughter landed her in the ER having to have stitches on her nose and lip. <snip>

But I've always felt in my heart that my dog is a ticking time bomb. *Despite the years of training I've put into him he's still an incredibly unstable dog.*

I agree. It's a hard thing to do, but if he's unstable and unresponsive to training, he needs to go.


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## nicky85 (Jul 10, 2010)

I may have the most unpopular answer of all. Please read Cesar Millan's books (Cesar's Way and Be the Pack Leader). Often times dogs show aggressive behavior because we as humans have been babying them and treating them as dolls and not animals or not giving them the exercise and discipline they need. The domesticated dog (even a chihuahua, shih-tzu or poodle) is so closely related to wolves that the two can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. In our society we tend to humanize dogs and see them as "kids with fur". They have entirely different needs than a human. They are pack animals. When we baby a dog, we feed needy, insecure energy and the dog then feels needy and insecure and reacts aggressively. Dogs also become aggressive if they are cooped up all day and not allowed to walk and exercise. Wolves will migrate several miles a day. All dogs need at least a 1 hour walk a day. Most importantly, YOU MUST BE YOUR DOG'S PACK LEADER. Your dog wants to have a strong stable pack leader and if s/he feels s/he's not getting it, the dog will become insecure and aggressive If your dog is out of control and you can not discipline him/her, you may have to give it away to someone else. The child's safety comes first. You really should seek professional help. Most of the time dogs can be rehabilitated with the right help.

My husband was raised to baby animals. He had dogs growing up and they were cooed over and rarely disciplined. My mother-in-law still calls her cat and dog "angel" and tries to reason with her dog as if she were talking to a human child by saying things like "You know better than that!" The problem is that the dog doesn't know better than that. She doesn't understand human talk and the energy she gets from my MIL is "I'm weak and insecure and I need you to make me feel better." When my husband stopped being our dog's "mommy" and started being her pack leader we saw huge improvements.

We now have two dogs- an American Eskimo and American Eskimo-Pomeranian mix (breeds with reputations for being biters). We have had zero aggression problems with our dogs and baby. In fact, the eski-pom thinks she is our son's "nanny" (a role that single female wolves often take on in a wolf pack) and will cuddle up next to me when I am feeding him and follows me around when I have him. She tries to lick him when he's fussy (that's what dogs do with puppies) but we don't allow it. We never leave children and dogs unattended. We have had our dogs around several other children with no aggression problems. We have a lot to work on with being pack leaders, but our dogs understand that aggressive behavior with kids, especially our son is not tolerated.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

A minor bite that didn't break skin, and wasn't on the face, I'd consider the circumstances (was she provoked, hurt, etc). I may decide to keep them separated, do training, whatever. I'd assume she was "disciplining" ds, and not being aggressive or fear biting.
But a bite that broke skin, or was in the face? Yeah, I'd put her to sleep. Not worth the chance to me.

I'm not entirely sure I'd keep a dog that growled at kids when they get close to her food. In that case, though, I'd be comfortable rehoming to a child free home.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
Our family dog bit our daughter last night. I didn't know my husband had just fed the dog and my one year old daughter crawled into the dining room where his bowl is located. She wasn't "near" him or pulling on him or harassing him in any form when he turned at bit her in the face... growls, snarls, and everything. I know my dog inside and out and his bite on her was very intentional and he meant to hurt her.

I think you know what you need to do


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## minkin03 (May 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
Our family dog bit our daughter last night. I didn't know my husband had just fed the dog and my one year old daughter crawled into the dining room where his bowl is located. She wasn't "near" him or pulling on him or harassing him in any form when he turned at bit her in the face... growls, snarls, and everything. I know my dog inside and out and his bite on her was very intentional and he meant to hurt her.

I've done extensive training with this dog already as he is very poorly bred and has a very poor temperament due to that poor breeding. Two seconds of unsupervised time with my daughter landed her in the ER having to have stitches on her nose and lip. Yes, it could have been worse. Yes, it happened because we (as parents) failed to protect our daughter and our dog from this situation.

But I've always felt in my heart that my dog is a ticking time bomb. Despite the years of training I've put into him he's still an incredibly unstable dog. I've done all the training tricks and what have you with the end results of knowing that my dog has severe limitations that can't be trained out and it's up to me to keep him from the situations that I know are dangerous. I've failed and my daughter paid the price.

I think I need to have the dog put down. My husband is having a hard time coming to terms with this. But he knows as well as I do that this dog is not rehomeable due to all his issues, even without his new bite history.

personally i would try to rehome first. i'd just be straight forward and honest with who would adopt and tell them the issues and insist on somebody with plenty of experience with dogs and no children. if this didn't work than you'd have no other choice but to put the dog down. my sister had a poodle that was friendly (had her since she was a puppy) but as the dog got older (age 5/6) it went psycho. went from just snapping at strangers to snapping at my sister and she put the dog to sleep. sad but was necessary. really only you and your dh can make this decision based on what you know about your dog.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

We had a dog for 10 years that we loved. He was a rescue dog, a Shepherd/Rotweiller cross, who was fear-aggressive. We spent a lot of time working with him (including working with a trainer for over a year) and also keeping him apart from visiting children, and some visitors (he had been burned by cigarettes and some of our friends who smoked would trigger a response in him).

For us he was the most marvellous dog, when we didn't have kids. And under most circumstances he would obey our commands. However, there were some in which he would not. He also killed two raccoons, one without any warning whatsoever.

When I got pregnant with my daughter I cried because I knew he was not able to be trusted, and I didn't believe it was going to be possible for us to be vigilant every. single. minute. in our own home. We worked on rehoming him, but found out he had a bad heart condition and we finally decided to just put him down and be glad about the life we had given him.

It was horrible and I still feel bad about it (especially since my daughter died, so it seemed unnecessary) but I would decide the same again in the same situation. Sometimes your life situation just doesn't make for success with a dog, and if you've been working with a troubled dog for a long time, you just know when you're over your head.

Peace to you.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
Our family dog bit our daughter last night. I didn't know my husband had just fed the dog and my one year old daughter crawled into the dining room where his bowl is located. She wasn't "near" him or pulling on him or harassing him in any form when he turned at bit her in the face... growls, snarls, and everything. I know my dog inside and out and his bite on her was very intentional and he meant to hurt her.

I've done extensive training with this dog already as he is very poorly bred and has a very poor temperament due to that poor breeding. Two seconds of unsupervised time with my daughter landed her in the ER having to have stitches on her nose and lip. Yes, it could have been worse. Yes, it happened because we (as parents) failed to protect our daughter and our dog from this situation.

But I've always felt in my heart that my dog is a ticking time bomb. Despite the years of training I've put into him he's still an incredibly unstable dog. I've done all the training tricks and what have you with the end results of knowing that my dog has severe limitations that can't be trained out and it's up to me to keep him from the situations that I know are dangerous. I've failed and my daughter paid the price.

I think I need to have the dog put down. My husband is having a hard time coming to terms with this. But he knows as well as I do that this dog is not rehomeable due to all his issues, even without his new bite history.

Is there any kind of rescue organization that would take him, and perhaps find him a child-free family?

I totally feel for you--pretty much ONLY in your situation would I recommend putting him to sleep. We too, had a ticking time bomb dog. It's very difficult to live like that, especially as your child gets more mobile. We really loved our bad dog very much, and he ended being "ok" with our daughter, but I kept them very separate 95% of the time and she was too little to seek him out. He ended up dying of cancer when she was 3. It was sad, but a relief in many ways.

Now we have a lab who has the temperament of SAINT. She is the sweetest, most patient, happy dog...

I am really, really sorry you are going through this. I can hear you blaming yourself but you cannot be everywhere at once and if you feel in your gut that the dog is not helpable, I actually do think it's more humane to put the dog down.


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

Oh, how heartbreaking! Big hugs to you on this difficult decision. I'm afraid, given the information you added, I'd probably put the dog down. I'm so sorry!


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## dakotablue (Jun 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicky85* 
I may have the most unpopular answer of all. Please read Cesar Millan's books (Cesar's Way and Be the Pack Leader). Often times dogs show aggressive behavior because we as humans have been babying them and treating them as dolls and not animals or not giving them the exercise and discipline they need. The domesticated dog (even a chihuahua, shih-tzu or poodle) is so closely related to wolves that the two can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. In our society we tend to humanize dogs and see them as "kids with fur". They have entirely different needs than a human. They are pack animals. When we baby a dog, we feed needy, insecure energy and the dog then feels needy and insecure and reacts aggressively. Dogs also become aggressive if they are cooped up all day and not allowed to walk and exercise. Wolves will migrate several miles a day. All dogs need at least a 1 hour walk a day. Most importantly, YOU MUST BE YOUR DOG'S PACK LEADER. Your dog wants to have a strong stable pack leader and if s/he feels s/he's not getting it, the dog will become insecure and aggressive If your dog is out of control and you can not discipline him/her, you may have to give it away to someone else. The child's safety comes first. You really should seek professional help. Most of the time dogs can be rehabilitated with the right help.

My husband was raised to baby animals. He had dogs growing up and they were cooed over and rarely disciplined. My mother-in-law still calls her cat and dog "angel" and tries to reason with her dog as if she were talking to a human child by saying things like "You know better than that!" The problem is that the dog doesn't know better than that. She doesn't understand human talk and the energy she gets from my MIL is "I'm weak and insecure and I need you to make me feel better." When my husband stopped being our dog's "mommy" and started being her pack leader we saw huge improvements.

We now have two dogs- an American Eskimo and American Eskimo-Pomeranian mix (breeds with reputations for being biters). We have had zero aggression problems with our dogs and baby. In fact, the eski-pom thinks she is our son's "nanny" (a role that single female wolves often take on in a wolf pack) and will cuddle up next to me when I am feeding him and follows me around when I have him. She tries to lick him when he's fussy (that's what dogs do with puppies) but we don't allow it. We never leave children and dogs unattended. We have had our dogs around several other children with no aggression problems. We have a lot to work on with being pack leaders, but our dogs understand that aggressive behavior with kids, especially our son is not tolerated.


This is what I would say BEFORE a bite. My Dogs have an established pack order. Myself being the top top, My Child and Dh also being above them. If I had any inclination they would be challenging the order (because once they have once they will again) Then I would consider re homing them. I have never seen any aggression in my dogs and if a bite was to occur it may be accidental, but if EVER there was an intentional bite, for ANY reason, even taunting they would be out the door so FAST.

If my dogs are being taunted, or bothered (which Dh and I have done since day 1 to insure safety of children) They have been trained not to aggress, but walk away. They can retreat to place DS can't get, like over gates. Or alert the pack leader (me) there is an issue. (not that I let them get over bothered all the time)










In your case I would rehome your dog to a family that believes they can handle dominance issues.







I am so sorry you in this situation.

Oh and I have standard poodles, also chosen because the breed is known for being good with children, and ours are well bred to avoid issues there too.


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## MaerynPearl (Jun 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lonegirl* 
Even the most tolerant/docile dog can be tormented to the extreme and have a breaking point...

I agree with this 100% and is the reason my moms usually completely docile black lab bit my cousin... his mother was not watching him while he pulled the dogs ears and poked his eyes, chasing after the dog every time he ran away...

However, with the added info to the OPs case, I would get rid of the dog immediately. Whether putting him down or re-homing him somewhere where they understand the dog has issues and is not to be around kids.


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

I'd put the dog down.

I was attacked as a 2 year old and almost lost my eye, luckily I was small enough that you cannot tell there was any serious damage done to me, but the Dr told my mom that if it had been a millimeter or so more I would have lost my eye. This was a neighbors dog, it knocked me over while I was playing in my yard, I did nothing to the dog, and it attacked me. My parents were in the yard and saw the dog with my face in it's mouth.

The dog had already bitten another kid. I don't take 2nd chances, not after that.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DevaMajka* 
A minor bite that didn't break skin, and wasn't on the face, I'd consider the circumstances (was she provoked, hurt, etc). I may decide to keep them separated, do training, whatever. I'd assume she was "disciplining" ds, and not being aggressive or fear biting.
But a bite that broke skin, or was in the face? Yeah, I'd put her to sleep. Not worth the chance to me.

I'm not entirely sure I'd keep a dog that growled at kids when they get close to her food.

I agree with all of this.

We grew up with dogs. We currently have my MIL's dog as it got kicked out of her assisted living for attacking other dogs (almost killed a Jack Russell). And I was bit as a child by a friendly dog that my mother always told me I'd been gentle with (it was put down as I was the third person it bit - oddly my dad was the first many years before).

I think that in order to have a dog in a family with kids, the dog must be able to put up with kids around and underfoot, hugging the dog, near the dog in a wide variety of situations. If the dog is hurt/scared/surprised in a family with children, it must get out of the situation or bark as a warning. A dog who bites in any normal situation that occurs in a house with kids cannot be kept as a family pet.

I trust my MIL's dog with my kids (who are all very gentle and understand how to treat animals) 100%. I don't trust her with my cat at all - so they are never in the same place. She would kill my cat in a heartbeat and I know this. But I have seen her with my kids for over a decade. She is good with adults and kids; she is terrible with small animals.

I think you have to know the dog. It sounds like the OP knows her dog. She has done everything possible. In the situation she describes in her second post, I would have the dog put down. Very sad but I don't see another choice.


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## ChristyMarie (May 31, 2006)

It sounds like you know what needs to be done. I'm so sorry.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *madskye* 
Is there any kind of rescue organization that would take him, and perhaps find him a child-free family?

I totally feel for you--pretty much ONLY in your situation would I recommend putting him to sleep. We too, had a ticking time bomb dog. It's very difficult to live like that, especially as your child gets more mobile. We really loved our bad dog very much, and he ended being "ok" with our daughter, but I kept them very separate 95% of the time and she was too little to seek him out. He ended up dying of cancer when she was 3. It was sad, but a relief in many ways.

Now we have a lab who has the temperament of SAINT. She is the sweetest, most patient, happy dog...

I am really, really sorry you are going through this. I can hear you blaming yourself but you cannot be everywhere at once and if you feel in your gut that the dog is not helpable, I actually do think it's more humane to put the dog down.


There are very few shelters which would consider taking a dog with this history. I should know, as I called all the numbers I could find in kansas city area and they all said they were full and wouldn't take my guy anyways because of his history of aggression and biting. I did get one to at least give him a test, but Giz failed and they said no way. So I had him put down there for a small fee.

I do recommend trying this option though. Just don't get your hopes up, and be honest about his history. You never know, someone might want to take him on.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

A rescue org is a little different than a shelter, too. Usually they are breed specific, and they are more used dealing with dogs who need rehabbing or to be rehomed to childless or catless homes.

I didn't see in the post if the dog is a mix or purebred--but I think you did say he was poorly bred. Breeders usually feel a certain amount of responsibility to help.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
Our family dog bit our daughter last night. I didn't know my husband had just fed the dog and my one year old daughter crawled into the dining room where his bowl is located. She wasn't "near" him or pulling on him or harassing him in any form when he turned at bit her in the face... growls, snarls, and everything. I know my dog inside and out and his bite on her was very intentional and he meant to hurt her.

I've done extensive training with this dog already as he is very poorly bred and has a very poor temperament due to that poor breeding. Two seconds of unsupervised time with my daughter landed her in the ER having to have stitches on her nose and lip. Yes, it could have been worse. Yes, it happened because we (as parents) failed to protect our daughter and our dog from this situation.

But I've always felt in my heart that my dog is a ticking time bomb. Despite the years of training I've put into him he's still an incredibly unstable dog. I've done all the training tricks and what have you with the end results of knowing that my dog has severe limitations that can't be trained out and it's up to me to keep him from the situations that I know are dangerous. I've failed and my daughter paid the price.

I think I need to have the dog put down. My husband is having a hard time coming to terms with this. But he knows as well as I do that this dog is not rehomeable due to all his issues, even without his new bite history.

Based on this update, the dog would be gone. I'm sorry this happened, but I'm so glad it wasn't worse.

I know alot of people are recommending looking for another home, or a rescue organization, but if after one phone call to the vet to find out about possibilities, and a few other phone calls to see if the dog qualified for a rescue organization, I would have him put down. I wouldn't trust him to be in my home with my child any longer than absolutely necessary. I hope you are keeping the 2 completely separated for the time being.


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## fyrwmn (Jan 5, 2009)

if it happened in our house, the dog would be gone that day. depending on the circumstance would make the decision of rehoming or putting the dog down, but i would not trust the dog around the kids ever again and they, not the dog, are my top priority.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Ugh. I'm so sorry you are going through this. For me, if a dog attacked for no reason.. I would have to put them down. Now, if the dog was provoked with a child hurting it.. in it's face.. then I'd rehome the dog. Dogs and children MUST be supervised. Even the sweetest dog can bite if they are being threatened. It's their instinct. That doesn't make them bad. I watch my children around my animals and keep them out of their face,etc. You just can't leave small children and dogs unattended.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

OP, in your situation, I would have the dog put down.

And actually in most situations, I would probably look at putting the dog down, but it honestly would depend on the situation.

I have never been bitten by a dog, but I have been bitten by a cat. And we did end up keeping the cat, because of the situation.


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## KalamazooMom (Apr 26, 2005)

As a last ditch resort could you maybe call an Animal Rescue organization and see if there's any chance he could be rehomed to a family with no kids?

I was bit in the face by a friends dog when I was about 10. And they gave the dog away right after that. I was devastated and still feel bad about that. It was unprovoked and totally out of character for the dog but they felt they couldn't trust him after that.

Our previous dog bit my son in the face. He was trying to "hug" her at the time. I called in a trainer and worked extensively with her as well as my DS. And we NEVER had any signs of aggression or any other issues after that.

I'm sorry. I know how tough this is.


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## faithsstuff (Nov 30, 2008)

I don't want to steal the thread but we are looking at a simialar (though much less extreme case). about 3 months ago we rescued a 7 year old dog from animal control. The dog was fear aggressive but with training, turned into a differant dog. He bit my son on the hand about 2 weeks ago. The skin didn't break but there were teeth marks. I was standing about 2 feet away and my son was near the dog but not touching or interacting with him. A few days ago the dog bit me too. He has also started raising his lip and growling. He's had full vetting, so no issues. I feel like we took responsibility for this dog and placed him in a bad situation. I hate this! He has growled at hubby too. The humane society is full and the rescues won't take him due to age or being full. Ideas?


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

Quote:

The dog was fear aggressive but with training, turned into a differant dog. He bit my son on the hand about 2 weeks ago. The skin didn't break but there were teeth marks. I was standing about 2 feet away and my son was near the dog but not touching or interacting with him. A few days ago the dog bit me too. He has also started raising his lip and growling. He's had full vetting, so no issues. I feel like we took responsibility for this dog and placed him in a bad situation. I hate this! He has growled at hubby too. The humane society is full and the rescues won't take him due to age or being full. Ideas?
To me, these are clear signs that the dog isn't safe to have in your home. I would get it out of your home as soon as possible, even if it means putting him down.


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## BlueWolf (Jul 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicky85* 
I may have the most unpopular answer of all. Please read Cesar Millan's books (Cesar's Way and Be the Pack Leader). Often times dogs show aggressive behavior because we as humans have been babying them and treating them as dolls and not animals or not giving them the exercise and discipline they need. The domesticated dog (even a chihuahua, shih-tzu or poodle) is so closely related to wolves that the two can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. In our society we tend to humanize dogs and see them as "kids with fur". They have entirely different needs than a human. They are pack animals. When we baby a dog, we feed needy, insecure energy and the dog then feels needy and insecure and reacts aggressively. Dogs also become aggressive if they are cooped up all day and not allowed to walk and exercise. Wolves will migrate several miles a day. All dogs need at least a 1 hour walk a day. Most importantly, YOU MUST BE YOUR DOG'S PACK LEADER. Your dog wants to have a strong stable pack leader and if s/he feels s/he's not getting it, the dog will become insecure and aggressive If your dog is out of control and you can not discipline him/her, you may have to give it away to someone else. The child's safety comes first. You really should seek professional help. Most of the time dogs can be rehabilitated with the right help.

My husband was raised to baby animals. He had dogs growing up and they were cooed over and rarely disciplined. My mother-in-law still calls her cat and dog "angel" and tries to reason with her dog as if she were talking to a human child by saying things like "You know better than that!" The problem is that the dog doesn't know better than that. She doesn't understand human talk and the energy she gets from my MIL is "I'm weak and insecure and I need you to make me feel better." When my husband stopped being our dog's "mommy" and started being her pack leader we saw huge improvements.

We now have two dogs- an American Eskimo and American Eskimo-Pomeranian mix (breeds with reputations for being biters). We have had zero aggression problems with our dogs and baby. In fact, the eski-pom thinks she is our son's "nanny" (a role that single female wolves often take on in a wolf pack) and will cuddle up next to me when I am feeding him and follows me around when I have him. She tries to lick him when he's fussy (that's what dogs do with puppies) but we don't allow it. We never leave children and dogs unattended. We have had our dogs around several other children with no aggression problems. We have a lot to work on with being pack leaders, but our dogs understand that aggressive behavior with kids, especially our son is not tolerated.

Trust me when I say this, my dogs aren't babied. I am a correctional dog trainer at heart, meaning I train with corrections and verbal praise over cookies and clickers. My model trainer is Koehler. This dog requires a high amount of continual training to be a nice canine citizen. He requires near micro management in all scenarios. When I was childless, I had that time and structure to dedicate to him. And despite all that, I still had severe limitations of what I could do with him and what would lead to disaster. He's a highly reactive dog. Highly intelligent (border collie), very high drive and very needy.

He's not a dog that would ever be safe around small children, even at his best training moments. He's not good with strangers in any shape or form, ever. Desensitization with him regarding strangers works on an individual level. I have desensitize him with one stranger and be completely back at square one with the next 100 strangers. There is no generalization with him.

I'm heart broken over this as I've failed to protect my dog from this very scenario that knew would/could happen. I failed to protect my child from harm. My husband thinks it's entirely his fault as DD was being watched by him at that particular moment (I was in the other room, he was in the kitchen next to the dining room) and he was the one who fed the dog. I feel at fault because this never would have happened had I personally fed that dog. He doesn't step a toe out of line with me... ever. But my husband is a different matter.


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## faithsstuff (Nov 30, 2008)

OP- you didn't MAKE this happen. You take care of your baby. What happened is horrible and it's going to be hard for awhile, but the what if's are over and you can make decisions for everyone's safety now.


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

The problem is that you shouldn't have to keep your eyes on your child 24/7. You should be able to look up, go pee, fold some laundry...without the fear of your child being bitten.

A dog is a dog. Your child is your child. The dog would be gone that day. And not to another home where he has the potential to bite someone else.


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## Nicole915 (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm so very sorry for the awful situation you are in. Although you did so many of the right things, it sounds like euthanasia is the appropriate option for this dog. When I was in vet school, one of the clinical behaviorists told me in passing that a bite to the face was, in her opinion, an instant decision to euth. As she explained, the fact that the dog is willing to escalate violence to the level of a face bite meant that she would never feel confident that training and conditioning would leave a child safe. It only takes a few seconds for a dog to maim a child, and you cannot be expected to stand sentry 24/7.

If it holds any comfort at all, over the years it has become clear to me that just like some humans are born with mental illness that manifest themselves in violence, some dogs are born that way too. We try to medicate and condition them, but some are beyond our help, and the most kind thing we can do is provide a safe and loving end to their lives.

Wishing you the best.


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## kcparker (Apr 6, 2008)

I think it's hard sometimes with working dogs too - he is supposed to be herding sheep, and I think sometimes if they don't have a job to do, they get a little stir-crazy. Ultimately though, it's not reasonable to have a member of the family that you have to monitor 24/7 to ensure the safety of another member. You cannot be there _all_ the time, and if you have a dog and a small child, the dog has know that it is #4 in the pecking order, below you AND your DH AND the baby. And he has to be trustworthy for the 30 sec. that you are out of the room or the one time the kid opens the screen door and goes out to the back yard with a biscuit to give to the dog as a treat.

My dog is a 13 1/2 year old pit mix who is a bodhisattva of compassion. If DS is bugging him (which we try to put the kibbosh on, but sometimes gentle petting devolves into bear hugging), he gets up and moves or goes to the door to be let out. The dog HAS to be that way. Even when we are with them, DS can move faster than I can on occasion, and I could not have my dog if I didn't feel he was trustworthy 110%. I am so sorry - it sounds like you put in a ton of work and training hours with this dog, and it's heartbreaking to have to make such a decision.

From what you've said though, he wouldn't be a very good working dog or agility prospect or have a easy time adjusting in another home. The new owners would have to be just as vigilant as you are, and it sounds like he's a bite risk for adults as well as kids.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
Highly intelligent (border collie), very high drive and very needy.

.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that my dog has too many feelings for a dog. She's a border collie/blue heeler mix. She's ALWAYS on hyper-alert. We can be hiking one mountain, and she's concerned about animals she hears or sees on the next mountain. She never relaxes because she's always looking or listening for something out of the ordinary.

I think these dogs are just too oversensitive for their own good. I bet you can find a great home for your dog. Perhaps he just needs one of those jobs performing, or being in an agility class. Can you call around and see if anybody would love to have him?


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## dakotablue (Jun 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
He's not a dog that would ever be safe around small children, even at his best training moments. He's not good with strangers in any shape or form, ever. Desensitization with him regarding strangers works on an individual level. I have desensitize him with one stranger and be completely back at square one with the next 100 strangers. There is no generalization with him.

He doesn't step a toe out of line with me... ever. But my husband is a different matter.

I think you say it well here. This is not something you could have changed. Certain breeds and certain dogs can't live in a pack with young. Border Collies, although smart are also known for becoming neurotic when instinct needs aren't always met and have a HIGH herding instinct. It is not something you can train out of an animal. Some within a breed are just more manageable than others. Cesar Has dogs at his home that cannot be placed back in home situations, even with his amazing ability.

If your Dh isn't good with the dominance part then if and when you get another dog I would be careful to pick a submissive personality. My Dh isn't great with this either, but both my dogs are submissive naturally and when he steps up they back down...Except in 'play' situations like seeing birds. They would never do this with me.

Perhaps because he is a purebred you can get in touch with the rescue in your area. That would have a much higher chance of appropriate placement. But I will say, I don't think you should put the animal down. There may very well be a better place for him/her to live more animalistic.


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## BlueWolf (Jul 21, 2008)

We (the dog and I) used to do agility before the baby. Of course, we had the time and money to do so. I'm a stay at home mom now with my husband traveling M-F for work. Funds for more agility training is just not possible right now. He totally thrives off the work though. It was great mental and physical stimulation for him. But like I said earlier, even at his best, I could never trust him.

And because of that... I can't see him successfully rehomed. I can't see how that would be fair to him. He would need the perfect home that completely understands his problems and that would be highly unlikely to find.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
Our family dog bit our daughter last night. I didn't know my husband had just fed the dog and my one year old daughter crawled into the dining room where his bowl is located. She wasn't "near" him or pulling on him or harassing him in any form when he turned at bit her in the face... growls, snarls, and everything. I know my dog inside and out and his bite on her was very intentional and he meant to hurt her.

I've done extensive training with this dog already as he is very poorly bred and has a very poor temperament due to that poor breeding. Two seconds of unsupervised time with my daughter landed her in the ER having to have stitches on her nose and lip. Yes, it could have been worse. Yes, it happened because we (as parents) failed to protect our daughter and our dog from this situation.

But I've always felt in my heart that my dog is a ticking time bomb. Despite the years of training I've put into him he's still an incredibly unstable dog. I've done all the training tricks and what have you with the end results of knowing that my dog has severe limitations that can't be trained out and it's up to me to keep him from the situations that I know are dangerous. I've failed and my daughter paid the price.

I think I need to have the dog put down. My husband is having a hard time coming to terms with this. But he knows as well as I do that this dog is not rehomeable due to all his issues, even without his new bite history.

In your shoes, I'd put him down too. I'm very sorry. Looks like you've done and tried everything for him, that is a lot more than what most people would do.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

What I would do in this situation is:
Call every rescue in the area and explain the situation. If no other options present themselves very soon, i would put the dog down.

You never know, though. A rescue may know of the perfect child-free environment for the dog, such as a working ranch.

So sorry this happened to you and your dd.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *faithsstuff* 
I don't want to steal the thread but we are looking at a simialar (though much less extreme case). about 3 months ago we rescued a 7 year old dog from animal control. The dog was fear aggressive but with training, turned into a differant dog. He bit my son on the hand about 2 weeks ago. The skin didn't break but there were teeth marks. I was standing about 2 feet away and my son was near the dog but not touching or interacting with him. A few days ago the dog bit me too. He has also started raising his lip and growling. He's had full vetting, so no issues. I feel like we took responsibility for this dog and placed him in a bad situation. I hate this! He has growled at hubby too. The humane society is full and the rescues won't take him due to age or being full. Ideas?











These are the first signs my dog showed (but only ever to my son and my husband) the next step was him full on attacking and lunging after my husband. Outlook is honestly not good. I did everything humanly possible to prevent putting him down, but in the end, that was the most humane thing to do.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

if shelters and rescues won't take him I would havce him put down. I cannot imagine living with an agressive dog. If my dog so much as growled aggressively at my children for ANYTHING we would be rehoming. I just do not have the time or energy for monitoring that. And I know I got really really lucky with my dog in that she is not at all aggressive. She plays rough but it was years befor she would do that with the kids and still won't with my youngest. We have had a few injuries from hitting her teeth (she is a German Shepherd mix and is all mouth) but she has never ever bitten or shown any sort of real aggression. not even concerning food. she is completely submissive around other dogs as well. (poor dear would not last long in the wild.) This is the only way I would keep a dog around children. If she had shown any aggression towards the kids or me she would have been packed right back up and sent back where she came from.

If it were just the bite I would think yiour dog would have a good chance of being rehomed (I really do not consider one bite out of the blue that big of a deal) but since he has been a aggressive dog since day one and you have tried and tried to rehabilitate him I would start with a shelter and if that did not work (we have a no refusal shelter but honestly, aggressive dogs are put down right away) or have him put down.

I am so sorry


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## SubliminalDarkness (Sep 9, 2009)

I'd put the dog to sleep immediately.


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## Orangey (Jan 25, 2005)

I'm not going to give any advice since we are new puppy owners, but I love this site http://leerburg.com/ there is sooooo much information here. I know you have experience in training but I thought it couldn't hurt to give you the link.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

In general, it depends. My dog bit me once, didn't break skin though. I was lying on the couch, she was lying on the floor asleep. I stood up. On her. She weighs 20lbs, I weigh a bit more.







I'd have bitten too in that situation. She didn't mean to hurt, she was really sorry. And no issues since.

But in your case, I would put the dog down.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Personally? I would rehome the dog, ASAP.

If the child was bitten in the face by the dog simply turning from a food bowl? The child WAS "near" the dog. TOO near.

And y'all weren't supervising appropriately, especially knowing that the dog had food/other aggression issues.

And... I would not suggest you get another dog until and unless you do not have small children in your home. Any dog. Sorry. Even the best dog needs to be supervised with a crawling child.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
In general, it depends. My dog bit me once, didn't break skin though. I was lying on the couch, she was lying on the floor asleep. I stood up. On her. She weighs 20lbs, I weigh a bit more.







I'd have bitten too in that situation. She didn't mean to hurt, she was really sorry. And no issues since.

But in your case, I would put the dog down.









EXACTLY! ! ANY DOG can bite! ANY DOG! My mother raises and travels around the country showing her dogs. She also worked for a vet for many years, so dogs and safety have always been a top priority for me growing up. If a child ACCIDENTLY HURT an animal there is a chance the dog WILL bite. It doesn't mean it's an aggressive dog, but dogs bite when they are hurting. It's their instinct, and one that needs to be respected with caution. It scares me when people say their dogs "would never bite", and they "wouldn't have a dog that they need to monitor". Many of the dog bites reported are from "trusted" pets. We all have to remember that dogs are ANIMALS. I love my dogs, and think they are the sweetest dogs in the world, but I sure as heck wouldn't leave my toddlers in a room with them for long periods of time. My husband works at a hospital in town , and there have been infant/toddler deaths attributed to dog attacks. The dogs were usually pets and lived with the family.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

OP We were in a very similar situation with our chocolate lab a few years ago when one of my daughters was 1 also. She crawled over by the food dish, he wasn't even near it or eating, and he charged her, stood between her and the dish, snarled and lunged, baring his teeth. He was a loyal, sweet, playful dog that we adored but he had EVERY intention of hurting her. That was it. He was gone.

I'm so sorry that happened, it's ok to feel cruddy, but definitely the dog would be gone. ASAP.


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## cristeen (Jan 20, 2007)

I'm afraid you know the answer to the question. But I realize you needed others to confirm that you're probably taking the right steps.

Honestly, around here, if a dog bite winds up in the hospital, it's an automatic quarantine on the dog, and if it's the 2nd offense (I believe it's 2nd), the dog is put down. When I was bitten, it was not the first time that dog had bitten, but it was the first bite that needed stitches (over 30 to the face - and I was an adult). The owner (a good friend) had the dog put down the next day. She received a notice from the city a few days later about the dog and quarantine.

Ultimately, you know the dog is unpredictable, and you know he's a time-bomb. It's just a matter of time until he does it again, and how much worse are you going to feel the next time? Even if it's not your baby he does it to.


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## Shahbazin (Aug 3, 2006)

I'm very sorry to hear that your DD was injured, & that you're being faced with this decision about your dog.







Yes, if he's not real stable, & requires constant upkeep, I'd put him down. It's extra hard since he's been your working companion, but there are stable dogs out there, & you've done a lot with him, but he can't be trusted around the human "puppy" (I had a dog who wasn't good around pups (& developed jealousy issues around other family members regarding his possessiveness of me), & he ended up neutered despite a Ch., great OFAs, CGC, & TT - fortunately, by the time my DDs came along, he was hitting old age, & he died when my 1st daughter had just started walking). Until recently, we also had a 15 1/2 year old Staffy Bullx, & while we kept an eye on the girls that they didn't pester him, he was fool proof, had no food issues whatsoever, & was the perfect family dog.

This isn't just a glitch in an otherwise stable dog - this is the last straw, & you don't want to pass a problem dog off on someone else.







I love my remaining dog dearly, but if he wasn't entirely amiable around my children, he'd be re-homed, pronto.


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## sahli29 (Jan 23, 2004)

If the kid provoked it maybe try to rehome the dog. If the dog just *did it* I would euthanise it.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

I don't have pets for this reason. I don't trust animals enough around young kids, and vice-versa. Even the best dogs can turn in a moment and nobody knows why.







It would break my heart.

Needless to say I would try to find another home where there were no children, ideally a farm or something (like they don't have enough dogs, I know!). I would then seek out a shelter and if they thought they could not give the dog away, I would consider euthanizing it.









Read the other responses and I see this is common.







to all those who have had this experience. I can't imagine.


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## shanniesue2 (Jul 4, 2007)

OP, I know this is a really hard situation. And I know you feel terrible about what happened. I'm really glad that your DD is okay. And I just want to give you a pat on the back because honestly, I think you've been the best owner this particular dog could have ever had. It sounds like you have really worked hard to provide this dog what he needed to have the best life he could have. I know that you're kicking yourself for what happened and for not being more aware, but I honestly think you deserve more recognition for the years of hard work you've given your dog rather than guilt for the few moments of miscommunication that led up to the bite. I know you feel awful about what happened, but I also think you should feel good about the life you were able to provide for your pet. It sounds like you really worked hard and gave him a better chance than most people would have.


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## ilovemygirl (Sep 8, 2008)

I think you owe it to the dog to at least try to find a new home. It sounds like this dog was the center of attention and getting all it's needs met for a long time and then it all just stopped. I totally understand why but the dog doesn't.

I also want to say something about all the emphasis on face biting. She's crawling towards him on the floor .. and she's a tiny one year old. What part of her is closest to the dog in that situation? It's really not the same situation as a dog attacking an adult, throwing them down and then going for the face .. ykwim?


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## ChristyMarie (May 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shanniesue2* 
OP, I know this is a really hard situation. And I know you feel terrible about what happened. I'm really glad that your DD is okay. And I just want to give you a pat on the back because honestly, I think you've been the best owner this particular dog could have ever had. It sounds like you have really worked hard to provide this dog what he needed to have the best life he could have. I know that you're kicking yourself for what happened and for not being more aware, but I honestly think you deserve more recognition for the years of hard work you've given your dog rather than guilt for the few moments of miscommunication that led up to the bite. I know you feel awful about what happened, but I also think you should feel good about the life you were able to provide for your pet. It sounds like you really worked hard and gave him a better chance than most people would have.

Very well said. OP, have you made a decision? (((hugs)))

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bebebradford* 
EXACTLY! ! ANY DOG can bite! ANY DOG! My mother raises and travels around the country showing her dogs. She also worked for a vet for many years, so dogs and safety have always been a top priority for me growing up. If a child ACCIDENTLY HURT an animal there is a chance the dog WILL bite. It doesn't mean it's an aggressive dog, but dogs bite when they are hurting. It's their instinct, and one that needs to be respected with caution. It scares me when people say their dogs "would never bite", and they "wouldn't have a dog that they need to monitor". Many of the dog bites reported are from "trusted" pets. We all have to remember that dogs are ANIMALS. I love my dogs, and think they are the sweetest dogs in the world, but I sure as heck wouldn't leave my toddlers in a room with them for long periods of time. My husband works at a hospital in town , and there have been infant/toddler deaths attributed to dog attacks. The dogs were usually pets and lived with the family.

This is a very good message.

I trust my dog about 99.9% - he has no food issues, DS can feed him, any of us can take food away from him, he's just laid back and doesn't much care. I think it is more laziness than good behavior.







BUT he's still a dog. With teeth. Stuff can happen so there's no unsupervised time.

He accidentally nipped DS once - DS had a snack and was waving it, ended up swinging it towards Sam, Sam thought DS was giving it to him and went to take it just as DS moved his hand and Sam ended up getting a finger. Didn't even leave a mark (he released immediately when he didn't touch food) but now we have a "no snacks except at the table" if Sam is out and about.

I still put him away in a room if we have kids over who are not used to dogs. You can't be too careful.


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## musikat (Oct 30, 2002)

In the situation you described the dog would be gone immediately. You could try to "rehome" him, but if he is truly unstable how would you feel if you learned he had hurt another child? We used to have a dog who did not do well with children. At the time we didn't have any but he once chased a neighbor's grandchild outside! He didn't bite her so we didn't put him down, then. But after we had our first child we basically always kept them separated. After a year we had him put down (he was older and had health issues by then, but the child thing was also a big factor).

As far as your husband coming to grips with it, ask him this: What happens if next time the dog goes for your child's throat?

I am sorry your child was hurt and feel bad for the dog as well. But it sounds like tough decisions need to be made in this case.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

We are going through a similar situation... not so severe though, which in some ways makes it even tougher (in your situation, I think I'd say put him down, though call around first, you never know)... Our dog has nipped at DS on more than one occassion, and always when we were literally right there (I hate to think what would've happened if we weren't in arm's reach!) but he's actually a really good dog, just seems to feel threatened by children & it's been causing lots of issues. We've been keeping DS & the dog apart (i.e. always separate rooms or one outside & one inside) but the dog is suffering from the lack of interaction & it's incredibly stressful to be on guard 24/7. We are planning to have more children so this will probably be an ongoing issue. We finally decided that rehoming him would be best for both our family & our dog... I just contacted a no-kill shelter & it looks like they are willing to take him, I know I am going to bawl my eyes out if this all goes through but I have no more alternatives at this point. I'm also going to give some money to the shelter to help with the expenses but... I feel like I'm shaking off my responsibility on someone else, and I really do love my dog, he was my first 'baby' & it's just heartbreaking.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

I feel so bad for you OP, I've always had dogs around me and while we are fortunate that our current pup is extremely well behaved around the baby. She allows all of us to literally take food from her dish when she is eating, pull her poke etc. DD actually lays against her and snuggles up to her all the time. Despite how great she is I will never 100% trust her because sometimes things happen and what may look like a bite for no reason to a human has a very clear reason to a dog. I don't believe dog's just bite for "no reason" we as human's just don't get that reason, not that it makes it any better for us.

I am not an advocate of euthanasia except in extreme cases and from what you have described this is an extreme case. It sucks but he clearly cannot be anywhere near your child and unless you could find a situation where he could actually do something near what he was bred to do (i.e working with sheep, cattle whatever), I just don't see how it could work for another owner.

I will say that I am surprised at the number of people here who say they would immediately euthanize their dog for a bite. As another PP pointed out, a toddler's face is often at the exact level of a dog's muzzle, a very logical place a little kid would get bitten if a dog was going to bite. Dog's use their mouths like we use our hands and biting in it's many forms is natural for a dog. Not good for people but I could never ever put my dog down for doing what is in it's nature. Like I said it would have to be an extreme case of aggression and behavior issues that would make me consider it instead of rehoming.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I think the face thing is that dogs (from what I've heard) only go for the face if they mean business. If you think about it, another dog's face would be right at muzzle level too, and (from what I understand) dogs don't bite other dogs in the face unless they are actually atacking.

Also, and this may sound callous, there are a lot of dogs out there that get put to sleep every day. Stable dogs, that don't have a history of aggression or nervous biting. If an aggressive dog is rehomed, that displaces a nonagressive dog from finding a home. Either way (in my over-simplistic example) a dog gets put down. And with the unstable dog, there's a greater chance of another human being injured.
We don't want to put *our* dogs down, because we have an emotional connection to them. But in the end, it's not saving a dog from being euthanized.

Ftr, I'm not a "euthanasia as a last resort" type of person. I think their happiness while alive is top priority, and sometimes euthanasia is the best option to keep them from being miserable.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

I guess I don't think a dog with aggression issues is less worthy of life than a perfectly behaved dog in my mind. Some dogs come with baggage some don't my own dog was sent back to the shelters 3 times before we adopted her and she is lucky to be alive. I totally get that either way a dog is getting euthanized but that isn't the point. The point I was making is that I am simply surprised that some people would euthanize their OWN dog for 1 bite provoked or unprovoked.

As far as face biting, the neck is a far more likely "kill" than the face and having had 2 female dogs that had to be separated all the time because of dominance issues it was always scary to see them go not for each other's faces but for each other's necks. Really scary.

On the other hand my brother as a little kid was bitten on the face by a jack russell that he was harassing and it was clearly just a reaction from the dog one bite and the dog retreated immediately...Then again anecdotal evidence is the worst so I should just stop myself.

I should correct myself I am a complete euthanasia as a last resort person, when it is an otherwise healthy dog that would be happy and fine were it not for the aggression issue or something like that. No animal should suffer unnecessarily. I think most people on here have probably had to put down a pet that was ill or old or both. I know I certainly have more than once.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
And... I would not suggest you get another dog until and unless you do not have small children in your home. Any dog.

I respectfully disagree, I think this is a little alarmist. I know plenty of homes with small children and dogs.


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## rhiOrion (Feb 17, 2009)

I am pretty amazed by the amount of people who just flippantly say "I'd put him down" without any info.

After you gave the info, I think that it's *possible* that the best option is to put him down. But I also think I'd at least look at other options (though it seems as though you have).

I grew up in a house with a border collie who was not good around children. We just didn't let her around children. She bit my friend on the ankle while my friend was running around the pool. But, my friend knew perfectly well that our dog herded children around the pool and that she'd get her ankle nipped. I would hate to think of having put her down for that, she spent another 12 years as my dad's faithful companion. She bit him once because she was fast asleep and he went up and did a quick shaking rub, and didn't realize she was so asleep, and it scared her. Again, it would have been sad if we had put her down for that.

I'm not comparing this to the OP's situation, I think her situation is much much worse, and I don't blame her at all for what she may have to do.

But I wouldn't say, "oh the dog bit my kid, put her down." My dog IS my kid. She may be a secondary kid to my DD, and my DD may come first, but that doesn't mean I don't love my dog unconditionally. I'd always try to rehome first.

But maybe part of the issue is that I'm projecting this all onto my current dog. And I can't imagine having to do this because I can't imagine my dog biting. Seriously, I trust my dog 100 percent. The only way I can EVER imagine a child being bitten by her would be if the kid had food in his or her hand and my dog tried to get it from the child and got a hand with it. But even then her bite when taking food is gentle. My friend's son pulls on her ears, sits on her, pulls her tail, hits her, and she just walks away, gives it a minute, and comes back for more. She's deaf, and even if you scare her she just startles and then gets happy. She hates nail trims so much that she has expressed her anal glands, she SCREAMS through them, and I've never put a muzzle on her because she just does not bite.

Anyhow, this isn't about the OP's post, but rather about some of the other posts in this thread. I'm sad.


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

I would put the dog down.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

I would put that dog down. I've had to do it and I know how hard it is. But I think rehoming a dog like that is irresponsible.


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Have not read the replies- am just replying directly to the OP.

If I lived somewhere rural, I would put the dog down myself. Where I currently live, I would take it to the vet to be put down.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhiOrion* 
I am pretty amazed by the amount of people who just flippantly say "I'd put him down" without any info.


I was surprised, too, but it was posted in parenting rather than pets and animals, and I think the responses would be different. They *have* been different, because a while back there was a thread similar to this in pets and animals.

And when I said that I had to put down my dog and explained the extenuating circumstances, the violence towards my husband and son, the biting, the growing, the animal behaviorist, the training, the separation we tried to do, the calling aorund to call clinics and rescue groups and shelters we did, the test the Giz failed at the *only* shelter who would test him after hearing about his aggression... after all of that, they still really rode me pretty hard about how they would keep the dog in the garage for the rest of his life rather than put him down.

Which, IMHO, is much more cruel, but their rationale was life at ALL cost.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

I had half my face ripped off by a dog. I needed major reconstructive surgery to the tune of many hundreds of thousands of dollars. I'm sorry that you consider it 'flippant' that I would put an animal down no questions asked for biting a kid in the face but I really have trouble with the idea that someone might risk their kid going through what I did.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhiOrion* 
I am pretty amazed by the amount of people who just flippantly say "I'd put him down" without any info.


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## rhiOrion (Feb 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *geekgolightly* 
I was surprised, too, but it was posted in parenting rather than pets and animals, and I think the responses would be different. They *have* been different, because a while back there was a thread similar to this in pets and animals.

And when I said that I had to put down my dog and explained the extenuating circumstances, the violence towards my husband and son, the biting, the growing, the animal behaviorist, the training, the separation we tried to do, the calling aorund to call clinics and rescue groups and shelters we did, the test the Giz failed at the *only* shelter who would test him after hearing about his aggression... after all of that, they still really rode me pretty hard about how they would keep the dog in the garage for the rest of his life rather than put him down.

Which, IMHO, is much more cruel, but their rationale was life at ALL cost.

Yeah, I think your case is one of those where it's totally justified.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
I had half my face ripped off by a dog. I needed major reconstructive surgery to the tune of many hundreds of thousands of dollars. I'm sorry that you consider it 'flippant' that I would put an animal down no questions asked for biting a kid in the face but I really have trouble with the idea that someone might risk their kid going through what I did.

No... I wouldn't risk my kid going through that. But I was specifically commenting on the very quick replies with no info. What if the dog was provoked? Why couldn't that dog go to a house with no children? I just think the "I'd put it down" before there is any info is sad. It's the attitude that makes it seem like some people think dogs are disposable.

I think that in SOME cases putting the dog down is the right answer. But I don't think it's ALWAYS the case.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I would have the dog put down. Most dogs who bite even just once will bite again and it is almost impossible to get them to stop that habit. A doctor is required to report the dog and after a set number of bites, I think it may be 2 or 3 the state will require the dog to be put down.


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## littleaussies (Jul 15, 2010)

OP I am sorry you have to go through this. When I was 5, I was bit on the face by a neighbor's dog. I don't remember what I was doing to the dog and no one witnessed the attack. I had stiches and plastic surgery and still have a scar on my lip. Consequently, I have a fear of dogs even almost 30 years later. Some dogs can sense my fear and respond to it, which is amazing but that's another thread.

My DD was bit by our dog and was bruised but no broken skin. The dog was resting and she climbed on her back before I could get to her. It was a defensive reaction and I don't blame her. I instructed my DD about the proper way to treat dogs and watched them much more closely after that. Even though I had been bit by a dog as a child and it is a serious issue with me, I do realize that the quick, pain nip was a reaction, not agression.

I have a hard time with the food issues. I do understand the pack mentality and the leader/dominance points that are made. But what about when I and my children visit other people? Their dogs may not have been instructed the same way. I would rather teach my daughters to never approach a strange dog, even in a friend's house, and to especially stay away from food, even with our own dog. I'm glad people are able to train their dogs to respect when you take their food away but I am afraid of this mind-set.

OP you will make the best decision for your family's situation and I think you have been given some good advice from people. I hope you can get through this ok.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *One_Girl* 
*I would have the dog put down. Most dogs who bite even just once will bite again and it is almost impossible to get them to stop that habit.* A doctor is required to report the dog and after a set number of bites, I think it may be 2 or 3 the state will require the dog to be put down.

thats just not true for a lot of dogs. Some yes but definitely not for others and it certainly is not fair to throw all dogs in together.

PP, I totally agree about teaching LOs to NEVER go up to a strange dog or go near it while it is feeding. I know my dog is incredibly good around all people but I still get very annoyed when a stranger actually lets or even encourages their kid to come pet my dog without permission. It is teaching their child an extremely bad and possibly dangerous habit. All it takes is one dog on a leash or not, that is not familiar with how kids pet or something and that kid is bitten, the parents freak out and then the dog is forced to be put down.

It's a lesson I wish every parent would teach their kid.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ldavis24* 
I think most people on here have probably had to put down a pet that was ill or old or both. I know I certainly have more than once.

Us too







It was really sad. Even though what I posted upthread was a little callous. That was me speaking from my logical side. The reality of putting a dog down is much different, for me. Our dog had cancer, and was given 2 months to live. She was getting incredibly bad- in pain, could barely walk. Logically, we totally made the right choice. But I *still* feel guilty for putting her down when we did- I keep wondering if she could have had just one more happy day.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ldavis24* 
thats just not true for a lot of dogs. Some yes but definitely not for others and it certainly is not fair to throw all dogs in together.

PP, I totally agree about teaching LOs to NEVER go up to a strange dog or go near it while it is feeding. I know my dog is incredibly good around all people but I still get very annoyed when a stranger actually lets or even encourages their kid to come pet my dog without permission. It is teaching their child an extremely bad and possibly dangerous habit. All it takes is one dog on a leash or not, that is not familiar with how kids pet or something and that kid is bitten, the parents freak out and then the dog is forced to be put down.

It's a lesson I wish every parent would teach their kid.

It is what the humane society teaches. I haven't seen the research on it but I wouldn't risk it, especially since there are regulations regarding how many bites animals can have before being considered hopeless. In our state it isn't easy to get a regulation that infringes on people's rights (unless it is the rights between two consenting adults). I think it is there for a reason. We recently had two pitbulls who were badly handled go on a rampage and they killed one person and seriously injured another and we have had a couple other cases of pet dogs killing small children so that definitely does make me very against giving a biting dog the benefit of the doubt, especially since most people do not have the deep knowledge of dog handling that it takes to train an aggressive dog.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *One_Girl* 
I would have the dog put down. Most dogs who bite even just once will bite again and it is almost impossible to get them to stop that habit. A doctor is required to report the dog and after a set number of bites, I think it may be 2 or 3 the state will require the dog to be put down.

Where are you getting those stats from? "Most dogs who bite once will bite again?" There are so many variables with the above statement I don't know where to start! With young kids and ANY animals, there must be supervision. Why? because little kids like to pull, hit, play rough, etc. THAT can be a big reason why dogs bite.

Many, many years ago, my dad's dog bit a kid (not badly) who tried to take the dog's food away







. He got nipped. That dog never bit a person, EVER again. He bit for a reason, his food was being threatened.

Ask a vet why they wear protective gloves or muzzle dogs during some procedures. becauise they don't want to get nipped by a dog that most likely has never bitten anyone. But stick a sweet dog in a vet's examining room and fear takes over.

I also am saddened by some of the responses in this thread. My child is my world and he is my first priority. I would die for him. But good grief, he certainly spent a bit of time pulling on my cats tails until my repetitive teaching showed him gentle hands. If he would have gotten a cat bite or scratch, I would have been very upset but doubtful would have killed my cat over it! Each situation is different. I would never, ever have an aggressive animal in my home with my DS. Not going to happen. I think that is the first line of defense in protecting our kids.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Latte Mama* 
Where are you getting those stats from? "Most dogs who bite once will bite again?" There are so many variables with the above statement I don't know where to start! With young kids and ANY animals, there must be supervision. Why? because little kids like to pull, hit, play rough, etc. THAT can be a big reason why dogs bite.

Many, many years ago, my dad's dog bit a kid (not badly) who tried to take the dog's food away







. He got nipped. That dog never bit a person, EVER again. He bit for a reason, his food was being threatened.

Ask a vet why they wear protective gloves or muzzle dogs during some procedures. becauise they don't want to get nipped by a dog that most likely has never bitten anyone. But stick a sweet dog in a vet's examining room and fear takes over.

I also am saddened by some of the responses in this thread. My child is my world and he is my first priority. I would die for him. But good grief, he certainly spent a bit of time pulling on my cats tails until my repetitive teaching showed him gentle hands. If he would have gotten a cat bite or scratch, I would have been very upset but doubtful would have killed my cat over it! Each situation is different. I would never, ever have an aggressive animal in my home with my DS. Not going to happen. I think that is the first line of defense in protecting our kids.

I posted where I got them in the post right above yours, The Humane Society. My mother volunteered there a lot there when I was a kid. Our vet also told us we needed to put our dog down after he bit my step dad once for this same reason. A cat is very unlikely to murder a child, dogs do. I have never had a dog who had to be muzzled at the vets (she does put a muzzle on some cats but my friend goes to a vet who is horrified by vets who are put muzzles on any animal). Our dogs have always loved going to the vets office. If your dogs are scared of your vet then I think you should find a new vet.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lonegirl* 
What was the situation leading to the bite? Yes it matters to me on making a decision.
Even the most tolerant/docile dog can be tormented to the extreme and have a breaking point...


When I was about 7 or so, I got in my Welsh Terrier's face .. and growled. He did a warning growl, and I got closer and growled more. He growled more ... and I came in even closer and growled ... and he bit me right on the face.

I still have the scar.

My parents beat him severely ... but he stayed in the household. I never, ever growled at him again and whenever he would growl at me (a rare thing, elicited when he would "den") I would back off. And he never bit me again.

I think he was provoked. I think if anyone was at fault ... it could be said the parents should have overseen it ... but how can they watch everything. It wasn't his fault.

He was my best friend in childhood, and watched over me every night. I am so glad that he was not put to sleep. I would have had a very lonely childhood.

Liz


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Now having read your second post, I would put him down. If you felt like you could find a guaranteed child-free adoptor -- then I would do that... but that is difficult. He could hurt someone else someday.

If one of my dogs currently did what you described, I would put them to sleep.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
I respectfully disagree, I think this is a little alarmist. I know plenty of homes with small children and dogs.

Not at all - they inadequately supervised a crawler near a feeding dog with known issues. To *me* that means they would be best off waiting until their child(ren) are older before getting another dog.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *One_Girl* 
I posted where I got them in the post right above yours, The Humane Society. My mother volunteered there a lot there when I was a kid. Our vet also told us we needed to put our dog down after he bit my step dad once for this same reason. A cat is very unlikely to murder a child, dogs do. I have never had a dog who had to be muzzled at the vets (she does put a muzzle on some cats but my friend goes to a vet who is horrified by vets who are put muzzles on any animal). Our dogs have always loved going to the vets office. If your dogs are scared of your vet then I think you should find a new vet.

The vet has nothing to do with it sometimes. Our dog is so terrified of the vets office she literally has to be carried in, and then carried to the exam room from the waiting room. It is just the way she is.
Further the humane society is a wonderful organization but they also are not very tolerant of pitbulls I believe in Michigan or at least the detroit area they will not even attempt to adopt them out instead they just put them down, and their behavioral exams are extremely flawed. They perform tests that often set a dog up for failure. For example, one test they perform is the tolerance of someone touching them or their food. They often have dogs that have been starved and neglected then they place a dish of food in front of them and stick a fake hand in the dish to see how the dog will react. Many dogs aggress at the hand because HELLO they have been half starved for part of their life. Then that dog is failed, deemed unfit for living with people and put down. That dog doesn't get a second chance. It is even worse when they have an inexperienced person performing these "tests" which is often the case. While I love that they rescue animals I am not a huge fan of the humane society which is like you pointed out most often staffed with un-experienced volunteers. We actually adopted a ferret from there that they told us was a female and had just been checked out by the vet and was healthy. It was a male that turns out had pneumonia.

I just think it is wrong to spread misinformation about dog's biting once and then becoming menaces to society.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
Not at all - they inadequately supervised a crawler near a feeding dog with known issues. To *me* that means they would be best off waiting until their child(ren) are older before getting another dog.

Maybe there wasn't enough supervision in the OP's case but 'constant supervision' doesn't solve everything -- our dog nipped DS when I was literally right there, arm's reach, and paying close attention. I do wonder if it would have been worse had I not been right there.

After seeing my formerly gentle, passive dog turn on DS I will not get another dog until we are done having children & the youngest is no longer a little kid.


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## ChristyMarie (May 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
Maybe there wasn't enough supervision in the OP's case but *'constant supervision' doesn't solve everything* -- our dog nipped DS when I was literally right there, arm's reach, and paying close attention. I do wonder if it would have been worse had I not been right there.

After seeing my formerly gentle, passive dog turn on DS I will not get another dog until we are done having children & the youngest is no longer a little kid.









Bolding mine...

This is very true. Sam nipped DS's finger in the snack incident with us both right there. Stuff happens really quickly sometimes.

The other thing no one is talking about is teaching the child how to behave around the dog. Yes, dogs needs TONS of training. But so do people. My old trainer had a great phrase - puppies don't fail training class, owners do. My husband needed help in interracting with Sam (his first ever puppy) and we have taught my son how to behave. He would never get his face next to Sam's or growl at him. He knows if Sam is barking he is to back off immediately. He needed to learn to not run when he didn't want to play because that was doggie language for "chase me!" I think we forget that everyone needs a bit of training when you bring a pet into a household.

I think most dogs and kids will get along great - with a lot of patience and a lot of effort to teach them how to interract. But yes, unfortunately there are some dogs who are just not going to do well with kids.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
Maybe there wasn't enough supervision in the OP's case but 'constant supervision' doesn't solve everything -- our dog nipped DS when I was literally right there, arm's reach, and paying close attention. I do wonder if it would have been worse had I not been right there.

After seeing my formerly gentle, passive dog turn on DS I will not get another dog until we are done having children & the youngest is no longer a little kid.









Which was pretty much my point. OP & family should wait until there are no longer small children in the home before getting another dog.

I agree - it is impossible to supervise 100%. In the case of a dog that is even somewhat food aggressive, a gate preventing the child from getting near the dog while it's eating would have helped. Hindsight is, of course, 20/20.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristyMarie* 
Bolding mine...

This is very true. Sam nipped DS's finger in the snack incident with us both right there. Stuff happens really quickly sometimes.

The other thing no one is talking about is teaching the child how to behave around the dog. Yes, dogs needs TONS of training. But so do people. My old trainer had a great phrase - puppies don't fail training class, owners do. My husband needed help in interracting with Sam (his first ever puppy) and we have taught my son how to behave. He would never get his face next to Sam's or growl at him. He knows if Sam is barking he is to back off immediately. He needed to learn to not run when he didn't want to play because that was doggie language for "chase me!" I think we forget that everyone needs a bit of training when you bring a pet into a household.

I think most dogs and kids will get along great - with a lot of patience and a lot of effort to teach them how to interract. But yes, unfortunately there are some dogs who are just not going to do well with kids.

Exactly. My Pen nipped my daughter a few times when both were younger. In every case, it was because my daughter did something to trigger it - be it waving food around, plopping next to/practically on top of a sleeping dog, or something of that ilk. I worked with both of them - Pen to learn how to be a well-behaved member of our family, and my daughter to learn how to be an appropriate & responsible dog owner.

In OP's situation, I would not act with undue haste to euthanize the dog. I *would* work with an appropriate rescue (surrendering him ASAP) who would evaluate the dog to see if there would be an appropriate placement where the dog could "work" and where there would not be small children. The rescue where we got our foxhound had him tagged as not to be adopted to a home with any children at all, as they made him nervous. Our situation was a rare exception, as he had actually been my daughter's dog at her Dad's, and the children living there F/T were not used to dogs, nor were the adults knowledgeable in dog ownership. Not their fault, just what it was. I had to drive 6 hours, with two kids and two dogs so we could do a F2F, and they were astounded at how well he responded to my kids - no nervousness at all, hopped up on a sofa between the two of them for a cuddle, etc. We then drove 6 hours home with two kids and three dogs through a driving snowstorm. But it was worth it. He can be a pain in the butt at times, but so can I.


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## arihillfarm (Nov 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *homebirthing* 
The problem is that you shouldn't have to keep your eyes on your child 24/7. You should be able to look up, go pee, fold some laundry...without the fear of your child being bitten.

A dog is a dog. Your child is your child. The dog would be gone that day. And not to another home where he has the potential to bite someone else.

Yes, this absolutely. I grew up breeding and showing standard wirehaired Dachshunds and also competing in Jr. Showmanship and Obedience. Our dogs were always safe for me to be around as my mother placed as much if not more importance on temperament as she did conformation and show titles. I clearly remember being bitten in my backyard when I was two and although it didn't break the skin, the same dog bit my mother when she pulled him away. She went the ER to get her hand stitched up and upon returning, promptly took him to our vet to be put to sleep. He was one of her first home-bred champions too and had never shown any aggression in the years leading up to that day, but she did the responsible thing and had him put to sleep. There are too many nice dogs (pets especially) to take ANY chances with your children, your neighbor's children or friend's children.

-Astrid


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ldavis24* 
I still get very annoyed when a stranger actually lets or even encourages their kid to come pet my dog without permission.









We have always taught DC to ask the adult first if it's okay to pet the dog and then let the dog sniff their hands first. We seem to be in a small minority on that, though.

I had to talk to DS recently about a friend of his not coming over. It's sad, but I'm afraid of friend-dog interaction. Our dog's a Corgi pup - short legs but very strong upper-body. The friend is terrified and will run or start shrieking if our pup is even in the same room with him. The running in particular just tells our dog to chase him, and we cannot seem to get the friend to understand that and not run while yelling our dog's name. I've watched his parents, and they both are terrified of dogs as well. I'm afraid that if our dog ever licked or knocked over the friend in one of these frenzies that the parents would be upset with us. (They already ask if we'll keep our dog locked in the bedroom while their son is here.)

So, I think it's not fair to assume the dog is at fault all the time. In the OP's case, I don't know what I'd do. I likely wouldn't make an immediate decision. I'd give it a few days to get settled from the injury and consider my feelings a bit more objectively.


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## ChristyMarie (May 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
...
I had to talk to DS recently about a friend of his not coming over. It's sad, but I'm afraid of friend-dog interaction. Our dog's a Corgi pup - short legs but very strong upper-body. The friend is terrified and will run or start shrieking if our pup is even in the same room with him. The running in particular just tells our dog to chase him, and we cannot seem to get the friend to understand that and not run while yelling our dog's name. I've watched his parents, and they both are terrified of dogs as well. I'm afraid that if our dog ever licked or knocked over the friend in one of these frenzies that the parents would be upset with us. (They already ask if we'll keep our dog locked in the bedroom while their son is here.)
....

I think I'm reading this wrong. Are you saying that the child is afraid of the dog, you are concerned he might knock him over and the parents have asked you to secure the dog when their son is there but you aren't willing to do that so the friend cannot come over anymore?


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## JAL (Apr 29, 2005)

I have not read all the posts but I just read a book that might be of interest to you,

Dogs of Dreamtime by Karen Shanley

True story and she has a similar experience with a dog she was very dedicated to and had tried to train away some aggression issues.

Best of luck with a tough situation


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
If your family dog bit your child in the face, what would you do?

Eat it for supper.









Maybe not. I would most likely deposit it at the nearest animal shelter immediately.


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## BlueWolf (Jul 21, 2008)

I'm sorry that it's taken me awhile to get back to this thread. I've been trying to process this situation and cope with what happened.

We, amazingly, found our dog a new home. My best friend, who is also my agility trainer and a border collie breeder herself (not where my dog is from... he was a farm dog), found him a home with her brother. He is very active in dog rescue and has been around border collies for 14 years. He is a childfree home.

I'm so relieved that we don't have to put our beloved dog down, which we were fully prepared to do. But I'm heartbroken that this ever happened in the first place and that the end result is losing my dog.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

That is a relief.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
I'm sorry that it's taken me awhile to get back to this thread. I've been trying to process this situation and cope with what happened.

We, amazingly, found our dog a new home. My best friend, who is also my agility trainer and a border collie breeder herself (not where my dog is from... he was a farm dog), found him a home with her brother. He is very active in dog rescue and has been around border collies for 14 years. He is a childfree home.

I'm so relieved that we don't have to put our beloved dog down, which we were fully prepared to do. But I'm heartbroken that this ever happened in the first place and that the end result is losing my dog.

I think a lot of people here will be thrilled that you were able to find him a new home. Maybe you can visit him sometime and see how he is doing, if that is something you are up for. We gave our ferrets to a dear friend a week after DD was born and DH still won't see them (too painful) so I can totally understand wanting a clean break.

As heartbreaking as it is, I know it is better than having to euthanize him and at least you can take that from the situation. Perhaps when your LO is older and you are ready to have another dog the lessons you learned from this situation will just make everything easier.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
I'm sorry that it's taken me awhile to get back to this thread. I've been trying to process this situation and cope with what happened.

We, amazingly, found our dog a new home. My best friend, who is also my agility trainer and a border collie breeder herself (not where my dog is from... he was a farm dog), found him a home with her brother. He is very active in dog rescue and has been around border collies for 14 years. He is a childfree home.

I'm so relieved that we don't have to put our beloved dog down, which we were fully prepared to do. But I'm heartbroken that this ever happened in the first place and that the end result is losing my dog.

Sounds like the best possible outcome for your pup. You will miss him, but I think you're doing the right thing and he'll be happy in the long run.


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## crunchymomofmany (May 24, 2007)

My daughter was 3 when she was horrible mauled by one of our dogs (I was at work at the time and she was home with my ex-husband, long story). She had over 200 stitches and had to be placed under general anesthesia to stitch up all of her wounds. She is 17 now and still bears the scars, including one on her forehead which became known as her "Harry Potter" scar for many years. I've offered to have them "erased" but she refuses. For a long time we couldn't be anywhere near dogs. We would have to cross streets to get away from people walking them. She's better now and we had a dog before we moved here last year (we moved from country to city so we couldn't bring him). We had that dog put down. It was overwhelming for me because I had raised the dog from a puppy and couldn't imagine what I could have done wrong with him. After many years, I realized that the dog was doing what dogs sometimes do - when they feel threatened or whatever.

"A scorpion wanted to cross a river, so he asked
the frog to carry him. The frog refused because the scorpion would
sting him. That would not be logical, explained the scorpion, because
if he stung the frog they would both drown. So the frog agreed to
carry the scorpion. Half way across, the frog felt a terrible pain -
the scorpion had stung him. There is no logic in this, exclaimed the
frog. I know, replied the scorpion, but I cannot help it - it is my
nature."


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## dakotablue (Jun 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
I'm sorry that it's taken me awhile to get back to this thread. I've been trying to process this situation and cope with what happened.

We, amazingly, found our dog a new home. My best friend, who is also my agility trainer and a border collie breeder herself (not where my dog is from... he was a farm dog), found him a home with her brother. He is very active in dog rescue and has been around border collies for 14 years. He is a childfree home.

I'm so relieved that we don't have to put our beloved dog down, which we were fully prepared to do. But I'm heartbroken that this ever happened in the first place and that the end result is losing my dog.









I am so glad you found a new home. especially one so knowledgeable and fitting for the breed!!!


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

It was good to read this outcome. Well done.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueWolf* 
I'm sorry that it's taken me awhile to get back to this thread. I've been trying to process this situation and cope with what happened.

We, amazingly, found our dog a new home. My best friend, who is also my agility trainer and a border collie breeder herself (not where my dog is from... he was a farm dog), found him a home with her brother. He is very active in dog rescue and has been around border collies for 14 years. He is a childfree home.

I'm so relieved that we don't have to put our beloved dog down, which we were fully prepared to do. But I'm heartbroken that this ever happened in the first place and that the end result is losing my dog.

I'm very glad for your dog and so sorry that you have had to go through this - but I believe you absolutely did the right thing here. Go you.


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