# Dr. called w/ autopsy findings.



## StarMama (Jun 25, 2002)

Fiona was perfect. No chromosomal issues, no physical issues.

The pathologist thinks it was a placenta problem, as they found clots.

We still have the appt with the perinatologist on the 3rd, but this doctor (the delivering doctor as well as the doctor who told me Fiona's heart had stopped beating) said that she thinks my blood pressure may have been higher than they thought.

She said that in a future pregnancy they would have to monitor my blood pressure *and* blood sugars very closely.

I don't understand how my blood pressure could have been higher than "they thought"? Are cuffs an inaccurate way to measure blood pressure?

And blood sugars? Why? I passed my GD test with flying colors at *37* weeks. Clearly that wasn't an issue. And even if it was... what does GD and blood clotting in the placenta have to do with each other?

I've been googling, and see that there are possible blood clotting disorders *I* could have that would affect things, but I'm not sure if in the 16 vials of blood they took during my labor tested for those?

I will certainly be getting together a short list of questions for my postnatal checkup tomorrow with the midwife, and a longer list of questions for the specialist.

I feel blamed by the doctor, honestly. Like she is seeing my weight as the issue somehow. She didn't even mention any blood clotting disorders at all. I know she's not the expert on the issue, but man I'm upset!

And I'm upset my baby was *fine* and she didn't get to live. If she had something wrong with her, something serious that would have made her life difficult or painful had she survived I'd at least have the thoughts that she didn't suffer needlessly.


----------



## mamanurse (Jan 22, 2006)

Starmama!!!

I've been following your story since that sad, sad day when beautiful Fiona Star entered and left this Earth.

The autopsy for my loss also revealed clots, but my perinatologist suggested I get tested for bleeding/clotting disorders. That's exactly what I did and I was diagnosed with one. Finding out the reason of course didn't make my loss any easier, but it made me more optimistic that a future pregnancy with a positive outcome would be probable.

As far as BP cuffs go... They can be quite inaccurate. Different sized people need the appropriate size cuff. Otherwise, the readings can be wrong. All to often, HCPs just slap on whatever cuff is lying around without regard to how big or small the person's arm is.

Hopefully, you'll have some good appointments in the future to help ease your mind for any future pregnancies.


----------



## NullSet (Dec 19, 2004)

Huge hugs









Don't even think about blaming yourself. It was _not_ your fault. Doctors always want to find someone to blame.


----------



## StarMama (Jun 25, 2002)

Thank you Jenn. How do they treat clotting disorders in future pregnancies anyhow?

I always made sure they used the correct cuff size for my arm (I'm 1" over the regular sized one), and Kaiser always did it via the machine that does the whole deal on its own. I don't know if that can change how accurate it is...

And I also think she was annoyed at the lapse of prenatal care through Kaiser... I saw them up until 20 weeks, then went with midwifery care, then came back at 36 weeks. So I dunno...

Thank you Amy, I'm not blaming myself (its hard work not to for sure though), I'm just totally confused over how they can be screening for important things and then saying perhaps it was those important things they screened for being the cause! Gah!


----------



## Jane (May 15, 2002)

I have to say I'm not sure that "clots" on the placenta are a likely answer. Almost all placentas have clots on them after delivery. It's similar to how a cord around the neck in an unexplained death becomes a cord accident.
Clotting disorders are treated with blood thinners. Baby aspirin is enough for some, others take other pills, some do injections. \\
I wonder if the blood pressure comment was a dig at the midwife?
Otherwise, I'd assume she meant that it was always normal when checked, but you may have had crazy spikes at times other than when it was being checked - an unlikely situation, but possible.
There are pathologists that believe that something like SIDS can occur in the womb - a blameless, unexplained death that cannot be predicted.
I was thinking of you today. I'm so sorry that Fiona is gone.


----------



## soxthecatrules (Oct 20, 2008)

Hello Starmama....

I don't know you but am sending hugs and kisses your way. I'm so very sorry for your loss. I never quite know what to say. I've personally known so many families that have went through a loss similar to yours. I still cry for those families from time to time.

I battled chronic HBP, pre-eclampsia, and GD with both of my pregnancies and am very familiar with blood pressure cuffs. If a nurse or whoever used a wrong sized cuff it can greatly affect the reading. When I went for my prenatal visits the nurses had to get a larger cuff every time as I am plus-sized girl.

The large BP machines at Wal-Mart or wherever can easily be off by 10-20 points if not calibrated correctly.

You mentioned something about weight. Don't know if you are plus sized or not. But, I'm anywhere from 30-50 (depends on the doctor you ask) lbs overweight and my OB said that my weight was not the root cause of my PE or GD and that I could have been at my ideal weight and mostly likely still would have had both complications. So don't let that doctor feed you that line of weight having something to do with this.


----------



## jess_paez (Jul 5, 2008)

i am thinking that's what happened to me to; concerning the placenta. I didn't get an autopsy performed, but I had some light spotting on and off from 6-11 weeks, i'd say i saw spotting 5 days out of that timeframe. I am thinking I had a SCH which caused a placental abruption? Partial abruption at least which triggered contractions and such. We will never know for sure.
Did you have any spotting during the pregnancy? I would look into that, it's a subchorionic hematoma. As far as what to do about placental problems in the next pregnancy, I am going to be doing a baby aspirin a day until the 3rd trimester. So sorry you had to go through this! And i definitely agree with the above post, don't let the doctor feed you the lines of being overweight. Hugs!!!


----------



## lisa_nc (Jul 25, 2008)

I am sorry you haven't gotten any answers. I think that sometimes doctors are very thoughtless. They feel like they are being looked to for answers (which they are) and in their effort to provide them they say things that they don't realize stay with us forever.


----------



## mamacita angelica (Oct 6, 2006)

just wanted to send another







your way. i am so sorry the doctors made you feel in any way responsible for fiona's death. there is absolutely nothing you could have done differently. i know you know that, but i just think you can't say that too many times.

i just wanted to say that in my case, i have to go back to have the blood clotting genetic tests. they took an s-load of blood at the hospital for testing, but i think my midwife also said that they would do those tests later.


----------



## Katana (Nov 16, 2002)

I'm sorry that the doctors aren't being as supportive as they should be.


----------



## lisa_nc (Jul 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jess_paez* 
i am thinking that's what happened to me to; concerning the placenta. I didn't get an autopsy performed, but I had some light spotting on and off from 6-11 weeks, i'd say i saw spotting 5 days out of that timeframe. I am thinking I had a SCH which caused a placental abruption? Partial abruption at least which triggered contractions and such. We will never know for sure.
Did you have any spotting during the pregnancy? I would look into that, it's a subchorionic hematoma. As far as what to do about placental problems in the next pregnancy, I am going to be doing a baby aspirin a day until the 3rd trimester. So sorry you had to go through this! And i definitely agree with the above post, don't let the doctor feed you the lines of being overweight. Hugs!!!

This is exactly what happened to me except the spotting started at around 9 weeks. I had a partial abruption. The OB told me the baby probably never would have made it, even if I had carried longer than I did. He was pretty much doomed when he implanted. I came back negative for all of the clotting disorders though. I am taking baby aspirin anyway and following my midwife's guidelines for avoiding an abruption. It's hard.


----------



## JayJay (Aug 1, 2008)

Oh hun, I'm so sorry. I am kind of a little in the same boat really. My placental abruption was most likely the result of very quickly on-setting pre-eclampsia caused by extreme levels of stress in the few weeks prior to Josie's birth. High blood pressure and sugars, yada yada - i.e. pre-eclampsia, can sometimes kick in very very quickly - with in hours or days, actually, and that's what most likely happened with me.

Also something of note - I didn't put on more than the recommended amount of weight during my pregnancy and I am quite slim, so your weight may well have had nothing to do with it. Pre-eclampsia is not always dependant on that at all.

*HUGEST* hugs to you mama. May both of our next pregnancies be blessedly uneventful and peaceful times. XXX


----------



## SMR (Dec 21, 2004)

I don't have much to add.. I'm sorry you didnt' get any answers. I felt right from the beginning that I would just never know what happened to Dresden. I kind of wished we"d gotten the autopsy, but at the time I don't think I understood the timeline correctly that the doctor gave me.. I took it as they would keep his body for 5 weeks.. and I needed closure and part of that was his cremation. I really think though that we just would have never known what went wrong. It's okay... although, I would love to have a clue, so I'd be more aware of the chances of it happening again, ya know. I hope you find peace today, momma.


----------



## momoftworedheads (Mar 6, 2003)

Hello,

I am so sorry that the Drs aren't being more caring in this situation. They sound like they really need some guidance on how to treat mamas after a loss.

I would get checked for MTHFR. After my last son was born, parts of his placenta looked really bad and the entire thing was sent to pathology. Parts of the placenta had clots and then a part of (in layman's terms) had died. I have the A and C alleles of MTHFR, and I take 4 mg of folic acid, extra B6 and B12. While TTC I took, Mag, Zinc, Vit E (3x a day) a prenatal vit, drank purple grape juice and walked every day.

All the best to you, but as far as clots go, it can happen (since the blood vol is so increased) or you could possibly have a clotting issue but your BP and Blood sugars have nothing to do with this.

Take care!
Jen


----------



## mamanurse (Jan 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StarMama* 
Thank you Jenn. How do they treat clotting disorders in future pregnancies anyhow?

It varies from aspirin to coumadin to heparin. I took Lovenox as a subcutaneous injection twice a day.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisa_nc* 
I am sorry you haven't gotten any answers. I think that sometimes doctors are very thoughtless. *They feel like they are being looked to for answers (which they are) and in their effort to provide them they say things that they don't realize stay with us forever.*









Same goes for nurses.


----------



## rsummer (Oct 27, 2006)

:MMMMMMmmmmmm, I am sorry about the lack of sensitivity. We recently got preliminary results from Asa's autopsy. The physician giving us the results at one point in the conversation said that, "he would have been a burden to you and your husband." Its only because I know the Dr and the fact that he was actually very genuinly concerned about my family that that was OK. He also referred to Asa as my daughter through the entire conversation, but he was calling from home on a sunday night. Yeah, I think not just in healthcare but almost no one realizes the weight of their words.

Get whatever testing you need to have done done and remember your beautiful daughter and tell us all about the beautiful babies in your future.


----------



## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

I'm so sorry.


----------



## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

I am so sorry that the answers seem fuzzy and that the doctor seemed to be blaming you. That just sucks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StarMama* 
And I'm upset my baby was *fine* and she didn't get to live. If she had something wrong with her, something serious that would have made her life difficult or painful had she survived I'd at least have the thoughts that she didn't suffer needlessly.

I just wanted to say that your above statement resonates so strongly with me. There was nothing wrong with Noelle either, except that she got tangled in her cord. And sometimes I think that that hurts even more than the loss itself.


----------



## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

I am so sorry for your loss. I lost my baby due to pre-eclampsia and HELLP. She was "perfect". The only thing wrong was my body's reaction to being pregnant. They should do some genetic testing for clotting disorders. They usually wait about 8 weeks after delivery because some of the tests can be skewed by pregnancy hormones. I have MTHFR but not too bad, so I make enough folic acid for me, but not enough for me and my baby. During my subsequent pregnancy I took 4 miligrams of folic acid instead of the usual 4 micrograms, a baby aspirin, and Vitamin B 12. Regarding hteir comment of your BP must ahve been higher than they thought, pre-elampsia gets its name from the greek word for lightning because that is how quickly it can come on. My Peri said she has had cases where the mom is fine at 8 a.m. and near death by noon. Feel free to pm if you have any questions or want to talk more. I lost my daughter at 25 weeks. I had an emergency C-Section and she was too premature. She wouldn't breathe and she died an hour after birth, but before I woke up from General Anesthesia. Becasue I was so sick, they had to take her quickly, so I had a classical incision, precluding any future natural birth. It sucks to lose a child. I am so sorry.
Gossamer


----------



## StarMama (Jun 25, 2002)

I remember reading about your Mary Rose and everything that happened to you, I've always remembered you and your story and little girl. Its so hard, knowing that the babies were fine. I'm so sorry you didn't get to hold her while she was alive.









I would think if I had pre-eclampsia then my blood pressure would have been high at the prenatal right before we found out she was gone? Or during labor? I didnt think pre-e was something that could come up and then go away?


----------



## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

Pre-e can sometimes not show high BP as a symptom. And once the baby was delivered, pre-e could have disappeared. There is also some speculation that once the baby dies, that can cause pre-e. I don't know. I am just so sorry. I wish nobody ever had to go through this. My heart is with you.


----------



## StarMama (Jun 25, 2002)

Hmmmm... I never knew all of that. I will certainly bring these questions to the perinatologist appointment on the 3rd.

I also think her comments on the bp and blood sugars might have been because I was using homebirth midwives for a portion of my pregnancy and wasn't using Kaiser services for about 14 weeks of the pregnancy...

And wow. I too wish no one had to go through this.


----------



## preemiemamarach (Sep 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StarMama* 
I always made sure they used the correct cuff size for my arm (I'm 1" over the regular sized one), and Kaiser always did it via the machine that does the whole deal on its own. I don't know if that can change how accurate it is...


First of all, huge







s to you. I actually had a perinatologist suggest something I ate caused *both* my twin loss AND my 9 week m/c. Never signs of infection for either loss.

I couldn't read your post and not respond, because I'm a nurse and take blood pressures daily- YES, the automated cuffs are inaccurate. Insist on manual pressures every time. I had PIH and later pre-e, and I actually had a manual cuff that I used several times a day to monitor myself. The more I read about the innaccuracy of the automated cuffs, the more I dislike them.

I'm so, so sorry for your loss.


----------



## namaste_mom (Oct 21, 2005)

(((HUGS))) sometimes the results do not bring peace just more questions. I wish you strength and peace as you struggle to learned what happened and how to prevent it again. FWIW, I was tested for MTHFR and my result were ambiguous. I followed the same dosing that Gossomer did for the next pregnancy.


----------



## Cuddlebaby (Jan 14, 2003)

I can tell from your tone that you KNOW that the drs do NOT know what happened to Fiona. you know they are grasping. it's impossible for drs to say, "I don't know". really.

I'm SO sorry you are even having to think of such things when you should be in the middle of baby bliss, as all of us should be.

huge huge hugs to you.....


----------



## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

I'm so sorry for your loss; I read your story and cried when you originally posted it.









DH was recently diagnosed with antiphosholipid syndrome and I read quite a bit about it. His is the lupus anticoagulation antibody, but there are other antibodies which cause clotting. From what I've discovered, not a whole lot is known about them. In some people hey come and go, they can be caused by infection, autoimmune disorder, medicine, or pregnancy. It's not something they would routinely test for in pregnant women, since it's not too common. Did they do any blood testing on you after you lost your baby?


----------



## AbbeyWH (Feb 3, 2009)

Hi new here... just delivered my baby boy stillborn on 01/26/09 at 3:45pm
soon i will share my story here
i am still in shock but wanted to share what little i've learned this past week

when you mention clotting do you mean a thrombophilia problem?
no one tests for this in advance because it is so rare
but you can be tested for it now for your next baby

http://www.marchofdimes.com/professi...14332_9264.asp

love to my new sisters in loss
your forever broken-hearted,
Abbey


----------



## Fireflyforever (May 28, 2008)

Abbey,

Welcome to our amazing band of beautiful mothers. I am so sorry that you have needed to find us but glad that you have. I shall watch out for your story when you feel ready to post.


----------



## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbeyWH* 
Hi new here... just delivered my baby boy stillborn on 01/26/09 at 3:45pm









I"m so sorry about you son.

That link is great, thanks for sharing.


----------

