# Do well-behaved children make it more difficult for "other" children?



## Luthien Arcamenel (Aug 14, 2006)

I was just thinking of this while reading the "Or I'll leave you behind... thread".

I have really good kids. They are great in stores, plays, movies, zoos, museums, resturaunts, etc., and never fuss when we leave the playground. I'm always complimented on their good behaviour.

Now while I was reading the above mentioned thread, my thought was that my gentle methods are setting a good example for other parents. On the other hand I realized, no probably not. I no longer use any apparent gentle methods with the. They are of the ages where they simply do, therefore the average parent sees me say "Come on now, we still have a few more places to stop today, and you shouldn't really be out here much longer without sunblock anyway babes." Then they see my boys happily say ok and race each other to the car. They have no idea how my boys got to this point, they just see them there.

Well... do you think this helps to shorten their fuse with their own not-so-negotiable child? I mean I can only imagine that an already mortified parent of a hyper child in a resturaunt would be made even more uncomfortable by a well-behaved child at the next booth, and therefore perhaps a bit more snappish, kwim?

If you think I'm on to something here, do you think there is anything we can do to cushion this effect?

Thanks fore reading. and please respond.









And my thought/point made much more clear and understandable:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2*
I think the OP makes a lot of sense, and that it is an excellent question. If a parent is losing it with their kid for whatever reason, and they see a 'good' kid being easy and agreeable, they may get even angrier at their own kid and as a result, behave in a way that is not helpful. I think people often tend to be harder disciplinarians in front of other people because they are worried about what the others will think, and so a 'good' kid might actually cause another child to be treated more harshly in public.

It would be nice if other parents would simply learn by the GD example, and I do think they often do--but sometimes parents will just be too angry, exhausted and self-conscious to learn, and will instead feel inadequate and embarassed when they compare their 'bad' child to the 'good' one. You can't really do anything about that, but I certainly think it's a possibility.

Thank you fuller2!


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## townmouse (May 3, 2004)




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## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

i think its a good point. i sometimes think that way with my teen.


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## cmb123 (Dec 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lúthien Arcamenel*
do you think there is anything we can do to cushion this effect?


Like..."don't hate me "cause my kids are perfect"


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## bullfrog (Feb 19, 2003)

My children are sometimes well behaved - sometimes not. I never compare them to other kids.
Do you really think it's your responsibility to cushion the effect your well behaved children have on other families? I don't get that at all.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

By DD is very well behaved 99% of the time I just enjoy the times and when I see another mom struggling with theirs I just remember what its like when things don't go well for me. I not intemidated by well behaving kids. I did realize though "modeling GD" really didn't include when DD coperates its easy to be the "good" parent then even a punitive parent when kids are doing it all has no need to "punish" its when things aren't perfect I model. I model patience "firmness" gentleness problem soloving..


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## CalBearMama (Sep 23, 2005)

Well, from the perspective of someone whose 21-month-old son can be pretty "hyper" while all of the other kids in the restaurant are being "good," I will admit that it is sometimes very difficult not to feel embarrassed and worry that everyone else around thinks I'm a bad parent. I'm pretty good at keeping these feelings of insecurity from affecting my behavior toward DS, but unfortunately, my DH is not as confident in his own parenting. He is always saying things like, "We must have done something wrong because DS refuses to sit in a high chair while all of the other little kids just sit there quietly." DH also tends to get more visibly frustrated with DS when we're in such situations, whereas when we're alone with DS at home, DH is very kind and patient with him.

To keep myself from getting all worked up and impatient / hostile with DS, there are a few key things that I keep reminding myself:

1. The behavior DS is exhibiting is age-appropriate, and if I'm embarrassed by it, then it's my fault for putting him in a situation in which such behavior is unacceptable.

2. DS is happy, bright, good-natured, friendly, fun-loving and inquisitive. Although I fear that people will react negatively to his behavior, the reality is that most of the time when he insists on walking around the restaurant saying "hi" to everyone he meets, the vast majority of the people are delighted to talk and interact with him and think it's really cool that he's so friendly and confident. So, if I have a problem with him not sitting in a high chair and eating quietly until DH and I finish eating, it's that my dinner is being interrupted, and again, that's something I can deal with because I shouldn't really be expecting him to sit there so long at his age.

3. If other kids DS's age are behaving "better" than he is by sitting quietly and not making a "nuisance" of themselves, the reality is that they're not getting as much out of the experience as DS is. He is sitting on my lap or DH's lap, giving us hugs, talking to us, talking to everyone who walks by our table, asking to try different foods, etc. etc. If other kids his age have learned to sit there quietly and not demand anything from their parents, maybe that's because they've been parented in such a way that they're no longer inquisitive, interested, or engaged in their surroundings, and they have no expectation that their parents will respond to their demands. I don't know, maybe this is just my lame attempt to justify DS's behavior, but it seems like non-AP parents who use methods like CIO and have minimal physical contact with their babies often end up with the "good" toddlers who will sit quietly and not bother anyone. (This is not to slam anyone who has a child who is naturally well-behaved, especially if that good behavior is the result of years of conscientious parenting and gentle discipline - it's just that from my own experience, I have a hard time believing that a toddler should be expected to sit quietly for any length of time.)

Anyway, I don't know that any of this really responds to the original post. But I just wanted to chime in and say that if you have well-behaved kids as a result of your thoughtful parenting of them, good for you, and keep up the good work! And if others around you become more harsh in their own parenting in response to seeing your children's good behavior, that's their own issue to deal with, not yours, and it's certainly not your fault if someone chooses to discipline their children differently than you do. I suppose it might sometimes be possible for you to say something if you see another parent who is visibly frustrated by their child's "bad" behavior, but like all unsolicited parenting advice, I would definitely keep it low-key. Maybe something like, "Isn't it hard when they don't want to leave the park when you're ready to go? It's too bad there are no easy solutions - it's really taken us years to get where we are." Maybe that would open the door enough to allow them to ask what has worked for you, if they're really interested.


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmb123*
Like..."don't hate me "cause my kids are perfect"


























I don't think "well-behvaved" children make it more difficult for "other" children... I think _parents_ of "well-behaved" children do though sometimes.

Children are "well-behaved" for a variety of reasons though. I was the perfect angel in public because I knew if I wasn't I would get the crap beat outta me --eh, I mean "spanked". So I don't think anything of it when I see "well-behaved" children. A child's behavior in a 5 minute span doesn't determine how I may or may not look at the parent, or more importantly, how gentle the parent may or may not be.

I guess I am a little







: at the "well-behaved" and "other " children remark. It doesn't sit well with me though I kind of get what you meant.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

It is always a joy to see happy children being talked to like real people, even when mine is being exceptionally challenging. But I am not at all insecure about my parenting skills, either.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

As several others have pointed out, it really depends on what you mean by "good behavior". If you're the kind of parent who always compares your kids to other kids, you are constantly going to feel inadequate. I've seen kids exhibit 'good' behavior that makes me cringe because that behavior is docile. These kids have been taught not to make a fuss, not to make a mess, not to explore. I know that's not what you're saying about your kids, but I guess I worry about "good" behavior. I worry that parents are expecting their children to maintain behavior standards that are either developmentally beyond their capabilities or are meant to make the lives of the adults around them easier.

My kids are generally cooperative because we work HARD on that for everyone in the family. They also know that I take their needs and desires seriously, and that I'm honest with them. They also do great on errands because we never go more than one or two places at a time. I've learned from solid experience that going 3 places will ensure a meltdown by one of my two kids. So, yes, they look 'great', when they're out, because I recognize their limits (and mine!), not because I'm a super parent.

But the definition of 'good behavior' is a really slippery slope, IMO. Sometimes we leave the park before they're ready -- because I need to go home. And I'll state that. "I'm tired and grumpy and need to go home and rest." In these situations, they fuss a bit (but not long unless *I* have messed up and let them get too tired/hungry too). Is that well behaved? I think so because they are able to take my needs into account, even if it's just a little bit and not too cheerfully. (But heck, I'm sometimes not too cheerful when ds calls me back into his room the 4th time to get something for him when he's supposed to be falling asleep.)

But, when we're at the zoo or out for a walk, I let them run ahead of me. They (usually) stop at the corner or when they can't see me (we're working hard with dd on 'please stay where YOU can see ME'). I let them explore. I let dd climb up on walls and practice walking as if it's a balance beam. To me, it's an important part of being a kid - to be able to explore and see what the limits of your abilities are. We work hard on respecting other people's space when we do that, but still, they're out there running around, not following me, not carefully looking at the animals and moving on. They can get loud. Is that good behavior? To some parents, this could be seen as 'wild' or 'unsafe' or 'bad' (I've heard it called all three). To me it is 'good behavior' because it's age appropriate, and we're in an environment where it's OK (at least for me).

If I lose my temper (happening too frequently lately -- one more day of summer school and then I can catch up on SLEEP), and my son yells back "DON'T YELL AT ME!" is that good behavior? I am _pleased_ to see it because it shows that he has a good sense of respect for himself and that he's not afraid to make me aware of it. So it's healthy behavior.

I also try really hard to model out loud some of my thoughts about parenting. If other parents want to take my kids' "good behavior" and use it as a reason to be harsh, alas, that's their problem. If they want to take my kids' "bad" behavior and use that as a reason to feel superior, that's their problem. I parent according to my convictions, not popular opinion.


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## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

Chiming in to agree that no matter how children are disciplined, the "outcome" at any given moment is different.

Sometimes my GD'd daughter will do like you describe and happily run to the car

Sometimes she will go with upteen "Why's" and a lengthy discussion about the way Aunt Mary's feelings may be hurt if we did not make it for dinner at her house on time would ensue.

Sometimes she will be tired and cranky and unreasonable and not resemble a "well behaved child" AT ALL.


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## AngieB (Oct 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
As several others have pointed out, it really depends on what you mean by "good behavior". If you're the kind of parent who always compares your kids to other kids, you are constantly going to feel inadequate. I've seen kids exhibit 'good' behavior that makes me cringe because that behavior is docile. These kids have been taught not to make a fuss, not to make a mess, not to explore. I know that's not what you're saying about your kids, but I guess I worry about "good" behavior. I worry that parents are expecting their children to maintain behavior standards that are either developmentally beyond their capabilities or are meant to make the lives of the adults around them easier.

Yes!!!

My sister has a step daughter that she is raising who is "perfect" all the time. The little girl has had a rough life and has been passed around from one family member to another a lot. She is a total people pleaser and my sister thinks it's all because she is such a great parent. Enter my 3 kiddo's, happy, loud, exploring and they all have a back bone and use it!! She is always pointing out to me how "good" sdd is and always picking at my kids. It's gotten me to the point where I don't want to be around them anymore. SDD has picked up on it and now points out if my kids do something and then says "I was being good" or something like that. I really don't like the kid and I know it's wrong of me but I just don't.

Ok I've lost what my point was going to be, but that's my experience with a good kid. I think it's more about how the parent handles it than how the kids act.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

What bugs me is that some parents might take that as an opportunity to tell their kids whne they don't listen the first time that they should be mre like *your* kids.







It makes me sad when I hear people comparing kids to one another in that manner...


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lúthien Arcamenel*
I was just thinking of this while reading the "Or I'll leave you behind... thread".

I have really good kids. They are great in stores, plays, movies, zoos, museums, resturaunts, etc., and never fuss when we leave the playground. I'm always complimented on their good behaviour.

Now while I was reading the above mentioned thread, my thought was that my gentle methods are setting a good example for other parents. On the other hand I realized, no probably not. I no longer use any apparent gentle methods with the. They are of the ages where they simply do, therefore the average parent sees me say "Come on now, we still have a few more places to stop today, and you shouldn't really be out here much longer without sunblock anyway babes." Then they see my boys happily say ok and race each other to the car. They have no idea how my boys got to this point, they just see them there.

Well... do you think this helps to shorten their fuse with their own not-so-negotiable child? I mean I can only imagine that an already mortified parent of a hyper child in a resturaunt would be made even more uncomfortable by a well-behaved child at the next booth, and therefore perhaps a bit more snappish, kwim?

If you think I'm on to something here, do you think there is anything we can do to cushion this effect?

Thanks fore reading. and please respond.









Perfect gd does automatically result in well behaved children.

I think *easy* kids make it hard for spirited kids, no matter how the children are parented.

I think the notion that a child who is not compliant is the product of the "wrong" discipline method makes it hard for the parents of spirited kids.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

I agree with describing kids like this as "easy." Or perhaps "quiet."


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## kindacrunchy (Jun 25, 2004)

Dechen
I think *easy* kids make it hard for spirited kids said:


> AMEN to that! I had a "friend" who told me it looked as if I let DS run the house. DS is very intelligent and spirited. Her son is very much an easy, rule follwoing, does what people tell him kid. He follows my kid around and wants to do everything he is doing. I have been very AP with him and am trying despeately to be very GD with him (3.5 yo and new babe has been very, very taxing) and she, not so much. I, too, have had times where DS was very cooperative in public and other times, not so much. It is not always nurutre, it's nature, too


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

It's an interesting thought in theory, but makes me a little nervous knowing that this little belly bean that is coming in October could be the exact opposite in personality of the "good, well-behaved, perfect little angel" daughter I currently have. So I choose to try and not feel superior just because I was blessed with an *easy* child. Although I know GD has a lot to do with it, she really always has been easily disciplined and joyful.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngieB*
SDD has picked up on it and now points out if my kids do something and then says "I was being good" or something like that. I really don't like the kid and I know it's wrong of me but I just don't.

Poor thing! Maybe she's afraid that they'll move her on to someone else if she acts out. And if your sister talks a lot about how she's "good", that might make her feel even more like she better be good or they won't like her and she'll be abandoned again. That sucks.


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## faithnj (Dec 19, 2004)

*Yes OP,* I do feel uncomfortable when my child's pleasant behavior and abilities are being compared favorably against the behavior and abilities of other children.

I usually make excuses, or bring up the times when her behavior was less than stellar to try to level the playing fireld, so to speak. Or else I say she's doing this or that cause teaching sign language gives kids a jump-start, and then I recommend the DVD I used. Anything to explain it all away.

I'm not yet ready to have the kid that other people say "Why can't you be more like her???" But I guess I better try and figure out how I'm going to get comfortable with it-- because it's already happening. And not only is it embarrasing for me, but I can't imagine what effect it's going to have on DD. Yesterday a mother of two seriously insisted that DD was a genius. (I'm not an expert, but I don't think DD is a genius. Her behavior may not be common, but it's definitely _not unheard of_.) Today someone said she acts like a 3 year old. (That's true. LOL!) I better find this kid some playmates who are doing the same things she's doing. But in the meantime, I dont' know how to respond to the comments of others. I don't know how DD will deal with it. And I do feel badly if other kids are looked at in a less favorable light when DD is around. No child deserves to be seen as "less than" just because another kid is doing something differently. Most kids are developing normally, and even their difficult behaviors are normal. I wish all parents of toddlers could just lighten up and not expect so much. It's too early in the game to freak out over their differences.

Faith


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## tracilicious (Oct 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lúthien Arcamenel*
I have really good kids. They are great in stores, plays, movies, zoos, museums, resturaunts, etc., and never fuss when we leave the playground.


I have really good kids too. Ds is rarely quiet in museums or any place else for that matter. He runs all over the place almost wherever we are. Stores are impossible with him. I leave him home with daddy on store nights. We're still waiting a bit longer on the restaraunts, but it's getting easier. Sometimes I think he goes deaf when I talk. It's a little early to tell with dd, but it's looking like she might be in the spirited camp as well.

Does any of that make them less "good"? Are they bad because they are not easy? Do I see easy kids and wonder what the secret of the parent is? No. I just meet my kids needs and appreciate the wonderousness of their personalities and carry on with life.

Actually, a lot of the time when I see parents give a command and kids snap to it I assume that the parent is strictly authoritarian. I'm not saying that all parents with easy kids are being controlling with them by any means. But we were made to be obedient when we were kids and we were very "well behaved," so that's just the connection I make.


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## Leersia (Oct 27, 2005)

Oh dear. I guess I don't really understand this thread, the point of it, or the question of the OP. I have twin boys, now four. I shudder to think of the chutzpah I might exhibit regarding my great parenting skills if I only had Henry, an incredibly easygoing compliant child who responds well to GD. Thank goodness that Oscar came along with him, who provides me with a good dose of humility by regularly thwacking me, biting me, and otherwise regularly having public temper tantrums. Yes, my gentle discipline techniques have helped me greatly with both children, but to a large extent, behavior is a result of innate temperament. Feel free to disagree.







:


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## Village Mama (Jul 22, 2004)

I fully agree that a childs natural temperment has soooo much to do with the outcome. I have to giggle at the twins , because that paints such a clear picture!
My boys can be pretty wild at times. I let them run on the sidewalks in our little town where we live. They get all of thier energy out this way. They are careful around people and stop on the corners to wait for me. They visit all of the shopkeepers who know them by name and usually play with them( as well as many of the residents... hollering thier name when they see them). I had another parent the other day, in FRONT of my boys, tell her little guy not to be like my boys... I was so irritated because they werent doing anything wrong.... but her little guy at 4 is happy to quietly stand right next to his mama and not make a peep. I am just thankful that people see how great they are and engage with them instead of expecting them to be seen and not heard! My partner almost had a heart attack, when he took the kids on the regular route without me, as the owner of the art gallery chases my kids around the art exibits grabbing and swinging them right next to all of the pottery!~


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## faithnj (Dec 19, 2004)

I do agree that temperment has a lot to do with this. I also think that authoritarian parenting styles, or watching a kid's diet can have something to do with compliance and non-compliance. But those truths still don't change the fact that people compare their kid's behaviors to the behaviors of other children in public. And it doesn't change the fact that many people would prefer to have children who read books rather than tear books at the bookstore. My girlfriend's son was kicked out of his Montessori pre-school for not being able to sit down and listen, just like the other 3 year olds in his class. To know her kid was the "disruptive" one made her feel awful, and caused her to question her parenting. (And then she found a pre-school where her son could rip and run and act like a child on laughing gas. Now she feels he's normal, and Montessori type schools are simply too restrictive.)

Faith
(Who took DD on a play date with two 3 year old boys the other day. And yes, the two boys tore a book at the bookstore, then laughed about it. Normal behavior...but naturally-- the parents wished their kids were like the quieter kids at that moment.)


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

I think the OP makes a lot of sense, and that it is an excellent question. If a parent is losing it with their kid for whatever reason, and they see a 'good' kid being easy and agreeable, they may get even angrier at their own kid and as a result, behave in a way that is not helpful. I think people often tend to be harder disciplinarians in front of other people because they are worried about what the others will think, and so a 'good' kid might actually cause another child to be treated more harshly in public.

It would be nice if other parents would simply learn by the GD example, and I do think they often do--but sometimes parents will just be too angry, exhausted and self-conscious to learn, and will instead feel inadequate and embarassed when they compare their 'bad' child to the 'good' one. You can't really do anything about that, but I certainly think it's a possibility.


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## Luthien Arcamenel (Aug 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2*
I think the OP makes a lot of sense, and that it is an excellent question. If a parent is losing it with their kid for whatever reason, and they see a 'good' kid being easy and agreeable, they may get even angrier at their own kid and as a result, behave in a way that is not helpful. I think people often tend to be harder disciplinarians in front of other people because they are worried about what the others will think, and so a 'good' kid might actually cause another child to be treated more harshly in public.

It would be nice if other parents would simply learn by the GD example, and I do think they often do--but sometimes parents will just be too angry, exhausted and self-conscious to learn, and will instead feel inadequate and embarassed when they compare their 'bad' child to the 'good' one. You can't really do anything about that, but I certainly think it's a possibility.

Thank you! That is exactly what I was shooting for. You said it so much clearer than me!





















Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I was starting to get really worried as I read some of the replies...


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngieB*
Yes!!!

My sister has a step daughter that she is raising who is "perfect" all the time. The little girl has had a rough life and has been passed around from one family member to another a lot. She is a total people pleaser and my sister thinks it's all because she is such a great parent. .... SDD has picked up on it and now points out if my kids do something and then says "I was being good" or something like that.

Don't suppose your sister would be open to a copy of Unconditional Parenting? This poor child sounds exactly like she's truly suffering from her experience that love is conditional (or at least random).


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Personally, if I"m out and about with my kids and see a 'good' kid, I don't even stop to think about how that kid is parented. And when I am out and about, I don't think about what example I am setting or what impression my kids are giving to others about my parenting skills or otherwise.

I don't honestly consider kids to be 'good' or 'bad' anyway. Some are more compliant than others, and every child has a different temperament.

One thing that does seriously bug me is the concept that one's parenting can have single-handedly produced a 'good' child. I often smile to myself, IRL and here on the boards, when I read of toddlers who sit through meals because 'we always expected it' or of children who never hit because 'we have a zero tolerance policy to violence in our house.'

IMO the truth is that the toddler sits through meals because he/she happens to be compliant enough and/or developmentally able to do so, and the kid who doesnt hit, doesnt hit because he/she has the temperament of a child who can deal with frustration without resorting to violence.

Give those same families a different child, and they could well find that their toddler can climb out of the high-chair straps like Houdini by the age of 11 months, or that their three year old has a habit of sneaking up behind them and biting them on the butt, _really_ hard.







:


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy*









I don't think "well-behvaved" children make it more difficult for "other" children... I think _parents_ of "well-behaved" children do though sometimes.

Children are "well-behaved" for a variety of reasons though. I was the perfect angel in public because I knew if I wasn't I would get the crap beat outta me --eh, I mean "spanked". So I don't think anything of it when I see "well-behaved" children. A child's behavior in a 5 minute span doesn't determine how I may or may not look at the parent, or more importantly, how gentle the parent may or may not be.


ITA with everything said.







: My mom used to brag about how all 4 of her kids were such good children but yet we knew we would get a switch taken to us if we acted up in public.







We were that way because she scared the frap out of us at home on a daily basis with her threats. I think most parents just have a way of scaring their kids in to being good or quite possibly they were lucky in having a child that is naturally well behaved.

I have a child that is naturally well behaved. He has never been a problem his whole life and listens quite well and always has. His youngest sibling, on the other hand, is the exact opposite. Am I a totally crappy parent, heck no!!! I won't let anyone make me feel that way either. I've done the exact same thing with both of my children (no spanking in our home or verbal yelling either) and they are exact opposites naturally.

I think you are just plain lucky to have two kids with the same temperament. If you plan on having another child don't brag TOO much right now, cause you never know how the next one will turn out.







: You also have no idea how much pent up frustration your kids may have and might come out in the teen or young adult years.







It's not over yet!


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leersia*
Oh dear. I guess I don't really understand this thread, the point of it, or the question of the OP. I have twin boys, now four. I shudder to think of the chutzpah I might exhibit regarding my great parenting skills if I only had Henry, an incredibly easygoing compliant child who responds well to GD. Thank goodness that Oscar came along with him, who provides me with a good dose of humility by regularly thwacking me, biting me, and otherwise regularly having public temper tantrums. Yes, my gentle discipline techniques have helped me greatly with both children, but to a large extent, behavior is a result of innate temperament. Feel free to disagree.







:

Great post!







The OP is just lucky with the kids she has. I guarantee if she had a couple more there would be one in the bunch that isn't quite as good as the others. It's all in their temperament not because of the PARENTING. I get sick of hearing that from people all the time just because my youngest decides to be a little hellion in public at times.







It's just not true, it's not because of me as the parent. She was born this way, God love her soul! I love having a challenge with her after having such a well behaved child. Life is never boring and she is going to grow up and be a very outspoken adult that can take on a lot of things! In fact I often worry more about my well behaved older child who never acts up and is always quiet and sweet. That's just now how the majority of our adult world is.


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

I agree that temperment has A LOT to do with it. I think parenting *helps*, in other words, I think gentle parenting can help make a calmer home, thus helping its members be more balanced -- whereas a punitive home helps to create either more *acting* out, or compliance out of fear --- but the basic personality types in children are there from birth I believe (or a very young age)---

I hesitate to tell the world how wonderful and well *behaved* our daughter is because karma works so beautifully in that the minute I say that, there is a public meltdown where she looks like a "bad" kid and I look like the "permissive" parent who doesn't "care" enough to "set her straight" ....

Besides, I think she is wonderful all the time, even when she is not acting "good" by society's standards.


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## Twocoolboys (Mar 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum*
Personally, if I"m out and about with my kids and see a 'good' kid, I don't even stop to think about how that kid is parented. And when I am out and about, I don't think about what example I am setting or what impression my kids are giving to others about my parenting skills or otherwise.

I don't honestly consider kids to be 'good' or 'bad' anyway. Some are more compliant than others, and every child has a different temperament.

One thing that does seriously bug me is the concept that one's parenting can have single-handedly produced a 'good' child. I often smile to myself, IRL and here on the boards, when I read of toddlers who sit through meals because 'we always expected it' or of children who never hit because 'we have a zero tolerance policy to violence in our house.'

IMO the truth is that the toddler sits through meals because he/she happens to be compliant enough and/or developmentally able to do so, and the kid who doesnt hit, doesnt hit because he/she has the temperament of a child who can deal with frustration without resorting to violence.

Give those same families a different child, and they could well find that their toddler can climb out of the high-chair straps like Houdini by the age of 11 months, or that their three year old has a habit of sneaking up behind them and biting them on the butt, _really_ hard.







:

I love this post! It is really true. I always get this from my sister regarding her dd's who are "good" kids, never went through hitting phases (so she claims - lol) as toddlers, among other admirable things. She will often say -"Well, I always had a zero tolerance policy" - lol. I think - "Ok, that wouldn't have gotten you far with my kids".

I also think it is important to really know your kids and know their limits, like a pp said. I know that I can for sure run two errands in a row, possibly three, but if I try to squeeze in a fourth, I can expect a tantrum from my 2 year old. So, I rarely, if ever, do that unless I have some dire circumstance and have to get something done. I also know that we are most succesful with errands and other outings if I go in the morning when everyone is the most well-rested.

But, all of that said, I have been on both sides of the coin. I have been the mom with the kids that other parents are rolling their eyes at. Which, I really don't care about. I am the kind of mom who will finish my shopping if ds tantrums because I don't feel like going back to the store later. I don't care if I get stares. But, because I go at the best possible time, tantrums rarely happen.

I have also been the mom who gets compliments on my kids behavior and have heard other parents tell their kids "why can't you behave more like him?" in regards to my oldest son. This always makes me uncomfortable and it makes my ds uncomfortable too. I can only imagine how it makes the recipient of the comment feel.

I think that our lives are so variable. Depending on the ages of the children, temperment, mood, the weather (yes, I think that does have an impact - lol) and other things, we can all be "well-behaved" or not so well-behaved at different times. Part of growing up is learning how to regulate your emotions and behavior and the younger the child, the less self-regulation I would expect to see. Even some adults are pretty poor in this department.


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## Zach'smom (Nov 5, 2004)

Britishmum and Leersia









When I hear or see other kids acting up at the store I am not thinking about the parents or parenting skills. I am thinking "Thank Goodness it is not my kid today!" Because next time it will be mine!


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## Twocoolboys (Mar 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy*
I agree that temperment has A LOT to do with it. I think parenting *helps*, in other words, I think gentle parenting can help make a calmer home, thus helping its members be more balanced -- whereas a punitive home helps to create either more *acting* out, or compliance out of fear --- but the basic personality types in children are there from birth I believe (or a very young age)---

I hesitate to tell the world how wonderful and well *behaved* our daughter is because karma works so beautifully in that the minute I say that, there is a public meltdown where she looks like a "bad" kid and I look like the "permissive" parent who doesn't "care" enough to "set her straight" ....

Besides, I think she is wonderful all the time, even when she is not acting "good" by society's standards.

I also completely agree with this post. I think parenting does help guide behavior. LOL about your karma example. It is true though! The minute I say to someone, 'ds hasn't had a tantrum in a long time, I think he may have grown out of it' - he is going to have a tantrum. I've learned to never, ever say things like that - lol.

I think my kids are wonderful all the time too







.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zach'smom*
Britishmum and Leersia









When I hear or see other kids acting up at the store I am not thinking about the parents or parenting skills. I am thinking "Thank Goodness it is not my kid today!" Because next time it will be mine!









That is me







DD has always been a pretty "good" but intense child. I do not pretend that her "goodness" or "badness" has much to do with my parenting. How I react to all of it is what I am interested in.


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## Quinn'sMommy (Jan 2, 2005)

Temperament is a huge factor. My son is shy around people he doesn't know which often make him appear to be a "well behaved" child in public. As soon as we get home or in an environment he's comfortable in out comes Gorilla Baby his alter-ego.







The truth is I was BLESSED with a child that's temperament means he's quiet and compliant in public; and hey, that's great for me. I do get comments sometimes like "wow, mine would never sit that calmly in a stroller." Once a mother pointed to mine and said "why can't you act like that little boy" to her child, and I hated that. His public behavior is neither a reflection of my parenting nor a true portrait of who my son is. It's just how he acts in public. Now if I drag him out in public with little thought to if he's hungry or tired and then I expect too much of him then shy goes right out the window. This is slightly more a reflection of my parenting that day, but still not something to be judged by the casual bystander. After all my son and I are both entitled to have an off day.

Now I was considered a "good" kid when I was a little. I was shy like my son and was a rule-follower. My parents jokingly say that they blame me for all the problems they had with my younger siblings. They say I made it look easy so they patted themselves on the back for their fabulous parenting skills and had a bunch more kids. Turned out not all their kids were compliant like me, and good for them. Someone had to take mom and dad down a peg.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2*
It would be nice if other parents would simply learn by the GD example, and I do think they often do--but sometimes parents will just be too angry, exhausted and self-conscious to learn, and will instead feel inadequate and embarassed when they compare their 'bad' child to the 'good' one. You can't really do anything about that, but I certainly think it's a possibility.

But why the assumption that the other parents don't GD?


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quinn'sMommy*
His public behavior is neither a reflection of my parenting nor a true portrait of who my son is. It's just how he acts in public.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quinn'sMommy*
His public behavior is neither a reflection of my parenting nor a true portrait of who my son is. It's just how he acts in public.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quinn'sMommy*
His public behavior is neither a reflection of my parenting nor a true portrait of who my son is. It's just how he acts in public.

This bears repeating.







(However I also recognize that some parents, _if they are very fortunate_, will have a child who behaves quietly and passively in public as a result of feeling "right" because s/he has been gently disciplined and filled with lots of love. When good luck meets temperament like that it is a good feeling. But no reflection on other kids or parents. Unfortunately our culture as a whole does not agree!)


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

When we traveled to China to be united with dd there was another couple picking up their daughter, who was within one month of dd (12 months). Unlike most of the other parents who were new and inexperienced, this couple already had 3 bio children who - admittedly - are just fantastic kids. As competent, experienced parents, these two were a great source of advice and perspective for all of us.

My dd was obviously far more spirited and also more irritable and hard to console than the other kids in our group. While the other babies lay passively in a stroller or parents' lap, our dd was in constant motion. She required constant diversion and entertainment and was easily distressed into tears and tantrums. By contrast, their baby was this charming, smiling, affectionate little doll, quiet, good natured and easily soothed.

On one occasion dh and I joked about our luck in receiving the toughest baby in the bunch, and the wife sort of exchanged glances with her husband and commented 'Oh, we think it has more to do with the parenting than anything. I mean, who knows what each baby would be like if paired up with different parents?'








Not exactly what we needed to hear as stressed out, insecure new parents.

A year later we got together for a reunion. In the interim, our dd had blossomed into this amazing, wonderful kid whom - as many of you know - I can't stop raving over







. Their dd, however, clearly had developed a lot of attachment issues. She was hyperactive, completely ignoring her parents while climbing into the laps of total strangers, ran away unless constantly attended to, and was very obviously far less developmentally along than our dd.

Of course no one said anything, but at one point their little girl was totally melting down over a toy of dd's that we'd brought. I called dd over to me and whispered 'sweetheart, Becky's sad because she would like to play with your toy. Would you mind letting her play with it for a little while? I think she'd feel a lot better.' Dd said, 'okay, mommy!' walked over and handed Becky her toy. Becky's mom was just speechless and mumbled something like 'I just can't believe how different your daughter turned out! I never would have predicted that!'

Later on the way home dh recalled the smart alec comment the wife had made in China. (I was surprised he remembered - he's usually not like that, and I think that speaks to how much it had hurt him to hear.) Anyway, it felt as though we'd been vindicated a little bit, although we were sad that she was having so much trouble with her own dd.

But I just think that speaks to the fact that good parenting can sometimes only do so much to compensate for inherent nature or problems, as some pp's have suggested.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

As we grew my mother would make a point to at least make a comment like "it does get better" to parents with younger children. If there was any kind of time she'd tell them some things that had helped her out when we did the exact same thing. Basically she switched from modeling the behavior to modeling the end result.


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## AngieB (Oct 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
Don't suppose your sister would be open to a copy of Unconditional Parenting? This poor child sounds exactly like she's truly suffering from her experience that love is conditional (or at least random).


No, I don't think it would be a good idea. She doesn't take any advise or suggestions well. She the type that thinks she knows it all. Plus she doesn't read (she can, just doesn't).


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

I do feel insecure about my parenting and when my 5 yo kicks me and sticks out her tongue to me in public and no other 5 yo does those things I do totally feel ashamed. I know I shouldn't, because I know that it is her personality but GD is not comon around here and people just put dd's behaviour wholly on my "permissive" parenting. I know it is not true and I have a sweet 3 yo who is also GD'd so I should know better, but that's just how I am ... but then to the OP I do not have these feelings when I meet someone at the park, just when we spend some time with another family and then, I'm sure in those situation you are the same way as I am, you can just go out and help a parent and not like so many people do, make diminishing comments....


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gaialice*
...when my 5 yo kicks me and sticks out her tongue to me in public and no other 5 yo does those things I do totally feel ashamed...and people just put dd's behaviour wholly on my "permissive" parenting..

There's probably some truth to that idea. I'm pretty sure your five year old would stop sticking out her tongue if you slapped her across the face each time, or otherwise threatened or intimidated her, which may be the types of tactics less gentle parents are using to achieve results.

But you probably discount such approaches because you are unwilling to pay the price of your daughter's mental health, spirit, sense of self and trust in her relationship with you.

She'll outgrow her childish insolence, but she may not recover from oppressive or aggressive parenting.

Sounds like a pretty good trade off to me.


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Thanks Blessed!


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed*
A year later we got together for a reunion. In the interim, our dd had blossomed into this amazing, wonderful kid whom - as many of you know - I can't stop raving over







. Their dd, however, clearly had developed a lot of attachment issues. She was hyperactive, completely ignoring her parents while climbing into the laps of total strangers, ran away unless constantly attended to, and was very obviously far less developmentally along than our dd.

Your story just proves that it has nothing to do with parent when it comes down to how children act or react to things around them.







: They can go from being perfect angels their whole life to being total terrors, even if it doesn't happen until they are school aged or even teenagers.

I used to dote and brag on my son when he was the perfect little boy and other kids around him were total horrors and I would think it's the parenting - especially if the parents didn't discipline them when acting up. And then I had my daughter and she has always been a very outgoing, stubborn, strong-willed child and I love her for it, but I feel sort of like I'm getting paid back for being so bigheaded about my perfect son all those years.







:


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lúthien Arcamenel*
I have really good kids. They are great in stores, plays, movies, zoos, museums, resturaunts, etc., and never fuss when we leave the playground. I'm always complimented on their good behaviour.


i haven't read the rest of the responses, but i am not comfortable labeling kids as 'good', therefore implying that others, who are not as 'well behaved', are 'bad'.

sometimes someone would ask my dd 'are you being a good girl today?' and i respond with 'she is always a good girl. aren't the all?' her goodness does not depend on her particular behaviours.

also, so much depends on the child's personality. some are just more sensitive, more independent, more stubborn than others. i am proud of my dd, the way she is, but this does not mean it is easy for me to parent her, and i know she will be labeled a 'trouble maker' in an institutional setting, like school. this is one of many reasons that we will homeschool.

in addition, one can never tell how a child is parented just by observing their interactions in public. sometimes when i see extremely obedient kids, i wonder whether they've been threatened into obediece. now, i am aware that this is my bias, and that in some situations my dd is also extremely obedient without any threats in our parenting repertoir.

a kid that is throwing a fit in a store is not necessarily spanked; and he is not necessarily GD'd. you can never know.

i know i am not answering your original question, but i just wanted to comment.

but it also occured to me that well behaved kids make it more difficult for insecure parents who tend to compare their kids to others.


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## jillc512 (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dechen*
But why the assumption that the other parents don't GD?

Good question. You can certainly tell by some parents' behavior that they aren't exactly on the GD bandwagon (although certainly they could be GD and having an off day). I make the assumption because I don't think in general Americans (humans?) live very 'examined' lives, and I consider GD to be 'examined' parenting. So there CAN"T be that many of us out there (what was someone saying about getting a big head?







).


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## Luthien Arcamenel (Aug 14, 2006)

I cannot believe how often threads go completely astray at MDC.

I'm sorry that so many people are offended that my kids are good. I'm sorry that so many think that I am somehow judgemental of other kids. I'm sorry that it has been assumed that I "got lucky". In actuality my second son is very high needs and difficult. Yes intuitive parenting, and attentive affection on the part of his brother DOES have an effect on his behavior. And I have four kids BTW (one deceased), so no, I don't need to "throw a couple more into the mix".

Oy vey.

Two people have gotten my point in this thread.

gaialice: that was my thought too. To approach a parent and try to help. But what is a tactful way to do this do you think? I mean I don't want people to shut down to me, but again I'm not chatty, especially with strangers. Is it to brusque to simply start off with "You know what worked well for me, was..." or is that too much like "I can see _your_ tecnique is *not* working..." kwim? I don't want to sound like the people who told me I should just spank 'cause it would work better.

I have never approached someone before, and I'm starting to feel like that is unfair of me, because I have the potential to be of help I think.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jillc512*
You can certainly tell by some parents' behavior that they aren't exactly on the GD bandwagon (although certainly they could be GD and having an off day).

no you can't. let's say you see a mother with a screaming 18 months old in the shopping cut, calmly continuing to shop, maybe humming to herself, while seemingly ignoring her child.

well,that was me, on several occassions. my 18 m old didn't want to be carried, didn't want to nurse, didn't want to walk, didn't want a snack, didn't want anything particular from the shelf that i could have given him. he was just letting his steam off, he didn't want to go out of the store. and knowing him,the best thing for me was to stay near him, but without holding him, and to keep on going.

yes, i was very aware how horrible i looked, and i am sure i was judged. yet, it was the best thing for my ds.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lúthien Arcamenel*
I'm sorry that so many people are offended that my kids are good.

People aren't offended that your kids are "good" - they are offended by the idea of dividing children into "good" and "bad".

By your standards I have a bad kid. She's terrible! Truly awful.









But she's not. Her behavior is sometimes unpleasant or undesirable, but she isn't bad anymore than compliant quiet children are good. They're all good kids.

If you call your children "good", the you ARE judging other children. You are making a value judgement about your children in comparison to other kids. You may not mean it that way in your heart, but you are choosing biased and judgemental language and that is what people are responding to.

Quote:

gaialice: that was my thought too. To approach a parent and try to help. But what is a tactful way to do this do you think? I mean I don't want people to shut down to me, but again I'm not chatty, especially with strangers. Is it to brusque to simply start off with "You know what worked well for me, was..." or is that too much like "I can see _your_ tecnique is *not* working..." kwim? I don't want to sound like the people who told me I should just spank 'cause it would work better.

I have never approached someone before, and I'm starting to feel like that is unfair of me, because I have the potential to be of help I think.
Very few people want unsolicited advice from strangers who have a better way. A kind smile or a friendly comment will establish connection and hopefully soothe a stressed parent a little. If they ask your advice, then by all means give it, but otherwise it is probably best to stick with a smile and the friendliness.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Just a gentle reminder to keep the forum guidelines in mind when posting, especially this part:

Quote:

It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing.
I'm sure nobody here means to use the term "good" or "bad" in a hurtful way. These are common ways to refer to other's perceptions. These words can lead to hurt feelings, however, where no hurt was intended. Hopefully we can find a way to express this issue without leaning on language that is divisive.

Heartmama


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## jillc512 (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annabanana*
no you can't. let's say you see a mother with a screaming 18 months old in the shopping cut, calmly continuing to shop, maybe humming to herself, while seemingly ignoring her child.

I was thinking more on the other end of the spectrum (say, yelling at or smacking the baby). If I had seen you I would have been impressed by your ability to keep your cool!


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed*
There's probably some truth to that idea. I'm pretty sure your five year old would stop sticking out her tongue if you slapped her across the face each time, or otherwise threatened or intimidated her, which may be the types of tactics less gentle parents are using to achieve results.

But you probably discount such approaches because you are unwilling to pay the price of your daughter's mental health, spirit, sense of self and trust in her relationship with you.

She'll outgrow her childish insolence, but she may not recover from oppressive or aggressive parenting.

Sounds like a pretty good trade off to me.


My kids don't stick their tongues out at me. They also do not kick or hit me, or spit on me. I certainly am not going to slap them across the face. The only thing we use, and as a LAST resort, is time out. (And actually, that is more for ME than them). They do not fear me.

A child can just behave that way and not necessarily be "oppressed", can't they?

ETA: My boys are FAR from anyone's idea of "perfect". They are very spirited. But violence and spitting are just not what they do.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle*
My kids don't stick their tongues out at me. They also do not kick or hit me, or spit on me. I certainly am not going to slap them across the face. The only thing we use, and as a LAST resort, is time out. (And actually, that is more for ME than them). They do not fear me.

A child can just behave that way and not necessarily be "oppressed", can't they?

I think you've misunderstood what I said.

My dd doesn't even get time-outs. And she's one of the best behaved kids I've ever seen. I'm not saying that the only way kids know how to behave is through intimidation. Rather, I said that a misbehaving kid could probably be coerced into behaving through fear, but that it was farsighted and commendable that gaialice didn't feel like it was in her child's or her best interest to pursue such methods.

Make sense?


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## awnja (Sep 1, 2004)

Still reading the posts, but my child is easy in public and I sometimes compare her to others and worry that she isn't more adventurous. Its easy to compare and then worry about our kids and wonder if we're doing something wrong. When a kid really impresses me, though, like when I think "I wish my kid would do that!" I simply take notes of how the behavior is encouraged and try it out. (I know a toddler who always says, "No thank you." Instead of "No." I love that.) Isn't this what most of us do? I've never wanted to punish my child just because someone else's kid was behaving better. While it may make a parent insecure, that's not what gets kids spanked.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed*
I think you've misunderstood what I said.

My dd doesn't even get time-outs. And she's one of the best behaved kids I've ever seen. I'm not saying that the only way kids know how to behave is through intimidation. Rather, I said that a misbehaving kid could probably be coerced into behaving through fear, but that it was farsighted and commendable that gaialice didn't feel like it was in her child's or her best interest to pursue such methods.

Make sense?


I gotcha!


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68*
Your story just proves that it has nothing to do with parent when it comes down to how children act or react to things around them.







: They can go from being perfect angels their whole life to being total terrors, even if it doesn't happen until they are school aged or even teenagers.

I disagree. I truly believe it is a combination of personality and parenting.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68*
Your story just proves that it has nothing to do with parent when it comes down to how children act or react to things around them.







: They can go from being perfect angels their whole life to being total terrors, even if it doesn't happen until they are school aged or even teenagers.

I used to dote and brag on my son when he was the perfect little boy and other kids around him were total horrors and I would think it's the parenting - especially if the parents didn't discipline them when acting up. And then I had my daughter and she has always been a very outgoing, stubborn, strong-willed child and I love her for it, but I feel sort of like I'm getting paid back for being so bigheaded about my perfect son all those years.







:


I disagree with this statement full heartedly.

I believe innately in nature vs nuture, and every person will be their own individual self if given the opportunity. However the nurture we provide as parents help gear and direct those tendancies to be put forth to the uses those children decide.

If you have a combative child who is always argumentive and never wants to be wrong, you can teach them about debate or a competitive sport. They will then take those natural tendancies and put them to those uses.

Kids clue you in on what they want to do naturally, it is up to us as parents to direct and nuture those talens to help them grow.

To say that a child will naturally become a "total terror" is incorrect in my opinion. Those 'total terrors' probably gave initiative and the PARENTS failed to direct those initiatives appropriately.

Yes you will come across people who say 'they have done everything'. But there is no way to be sure, possibilities are limitless.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

It's definitely both innate temperament _and_ parenting.

DS1 was...average, I guess. I've never thought of him as average at all - he's very smart, very creative, very kind - a wonderful, wonderful boy, and a total joy to have around. I just mean he's "average" in terms of how challenging he was.

DD is challenging. She's one of the smartest kids I know, very, very, very spirited, very determined about things. There are mornings that I know as soon as she crawls into bed with me that it's going to be an ugly day. She's very difficult to parent well, as her volatility wears _me_ down. (She's also delightful, charming, strong & funny - I adore her.)

DS2 is _easy_. He's a natural cuddler, can be easily soothed by nursing or walking or singing (dd hated _any_ attempt to soothe her as a baby). He's laidback and happy. All he needs is a full tummy, a clean and dry diaper, and attention from his loved ones, and he's just easy. But, when people ask me if he's a "good baby", it makes my stomach churn. To me, calling him "good" implies that a child like dd is "bad". She's not. She's wild, free and exuberant, and I wouldn't change her for the world.

On the other hand...parenting makes a difference, too. I know one particular little boy who shows what I mean. He's going to be 5 in October. When he was very little, he was the easiest, most responsive child I've ever met. For example, I used to take him shopping sometimes...he'd start kicking me from the cart. If I stepped back and said "I don't like it when you kick me, so we're not going to move until you stop", he'd just stop. Done. I never needed to develop any discipline technique (not even as simple as misdirection) to deal with him...just a simple statement of what was happening. However, his mom didn't take this approach. She has a lot invested in believing that she has a harder time of parenting than anybody else, so _of course_ she considered this child extremely difficult. (The biggest difficulty is that he was huge, which made it easy to expect too much from him, and difficult to easily extricate him from the situation if _did_ get into something he shouldn't.) So...she yelled at him a lot, made mountains out of molehills, accentuated (or invented) the negatives, ignored the positives, and basically made him feel like a burden.

The boy is now impossible to deal with. If you address inappropriate behaviour, no matter how gently, he'll run off and hide or he'll scream. He walks around in a sulk all day and shoves his younger siblings around when he doesn't get what he wants. So...his mom made her delusion come true. He's become a child with major behavioural issues. He's not a "bad" kid. He's a kid in a bad environment.

As to the original question...if I'm dealing with a wired dd, I don't really care how anybody else's children are behaving. It certainly doesn't make things any harder on me. They can judge my parenting until Armageddon for all I care - people in a restaurant or aquarium or whatever know nothing about my life or my parenting. If people look at dd and only see her hyper side, that's their loss. I don't care what they think, because I know I'm going home with a beautiful little soul right next to me. She expands the way I see the world, so if other people think that the world she perceives should be smaller, that's their problem, not mine.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I think we can always find something to be insecure about.

I have very difficult and spirited but also farily well behaved children (on a scale of 1-10 I would give them a 8). It irks me to no end when people assume that I am lucky or they are easy, or when people assume I beat the crap out of them to get them this way (for the record, close supervision and being very very very consist).

I don't think thier good behavior makes it harder for other children though. Most people with children that I would copnsider not so well behaved really do have different standards (whish is fine) and think thier children are behaving perfectly well (no judgment. we all have our thresh holds on what we can work with. and what might be just fine for one mother is completely unexaceptable to another.)

So don't assume the mom is all bent out of shape because her child is acting that way. they really might be just fine with it. if parents are bent out of shape it is probably because they are genuinely not happy with thier childs level of cooperation and it didn't take cheerful cooperative kids to point out that thier children could behave better.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I really agree that unless you see and witness way-out-there bad parenting (like smacking or terribly abusive language), you do not know very much when you observe children in public. I've had people compliment me on my DD's momentarily angelic behavior in the grocery store when half an hour ago she had been screaming and hitting me. I am the same parent and she is the same kid, whether I am carrying her kicking and screaming out of a restaurant or whether she is being extremely quiet and "easy" on an airplane. I also am a huge believer in temperament.


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## tracilicious (Oct 5, 2004)

I do think it's both. Even though ds is always spirited, when I've had a week where I've been really good about following UP, he still will run and be active and all that, but he takes direction much more willingly. If we've had a bad week then he's a great deal more obstinant.


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## edswife (Jun 28, 2006)

I've been thinking about this thread and it brings to mind something my grandmother used to tell me-
"Remember that your comparing the INSIDE of your family to the OUTSIDE of others."


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## lilylove (Apr 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *edswife*
I've been thinking about this thread and it brings to mind something my grandmother used to tell me-
"Remember that your comparing the INSIDE of your family to the OUTSIDE of others."

I really like that


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

I think StormBride had a good point here. Parenting is a two way street. We cannot completely remove our personalities from how we parent. There may be times in our relationships with our children that they may have "done better" with other parents, no matter how GD we are.

So I think I disagree with Yoshua, the possibilities are not limitless. They are limited by who we are, how much individual patience we have, and even our natural talents. Maybe it just so happens that the OP is a naturally very talented parent, or maybe she just got lucky and her personality meshes wonderfully with her childrens. Or maybe she's just doing the best she can with what she has to work with, just like the rest of us.


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lúthien Arcamenel*
gaialice: that was my thought too. To approach a parent and try to help. But what is a tactful way to do this do you think? I mean I don't want people to shut down to me, but again I'm not chatty, especially with strangers. Is it to brusque to simply start off with "You know what worked well for me, was..." or is that too much like "I can see _your_ tecnique is *not* working..." kwim? I don't want to sound like the people who told me I should just spank 'cause it would work better. I have never approached someone before, and I'm starting to feel like that is unfair of me, because I have the potential to be of help I think.

Ooops, sorry, I am getting back to you a bit late down the thread, I did not open this thread since I had posted. My way is that I help other parents or children. Not by giving advice. By just simply helping out. You know, if I see a mommy with an infant and a toddler at the park and she is struggling I will try and involve the toddler in a game with my girls. Or if a boy I know is crying at a restaurant I will offer him to take him to see how pizza is made. At times, I partner with another parent in finding a good way to leave the park all together so that there is no crying at the end. Small things like that. Giving parenting advice ... no... that's too personal...


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## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

Quote:

gaialice: that was my thought too. To approach a parent and try to help. But what is a tactful way to do this do you think? I mean I don't want people to shut down to me, but again I'm not chatty, especially with strangers. Is it to brusque to simply start off with "You know what worked well for me, was..." or is that too much like "I can see _your_ tecnique is *not* working..." kwim? I don't want to sound like the people who told me I should just spank 'cause it would work better.
I have never approached someone before, and I'm starting to feel like that is unfair of me, because I have the potential to be of help I think.
I don't believe there really is a "tactful" way to approach a parent with parenting advice, unless they ask for it. If their child is "acting up", they are probably already stressed and would feel that you are judging them and saying they are "bad parents", which could lead to actually harsher punishment. I applaud all you mamas who can cut short trips and errands. Some people can't--maybe they live out in the boonies and its a 20+ minute drive to the nearest store, maybe they are in a time crunch, whatever. Maybe momma just got off work later than she expected and picked the kids up from daycare and needs to get the errands done before going home. Despite this group's (MDC) nice little enclave, over half of mothers of small children do work outside the home, whether by choice or necessity. But, that's another thread







. Personally, I have a spirited child who is a challenge in the stores and I try to avoid taking on "boring" errands because we both end up frustrated and yelling at each other and an autistic child who now is "easy" but who knows what it will be like next month. I just do everything after work (dad keeps the kids).


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

It's hard to know from a single snapshot what it going on. As suggested above, there may be NO parenting issues at all, but just an overly tired child who has been pushed beyond her endurance by the circumstances of the day.

My dd _almost_ never tantrums. Recently I posted about her going on a crying jag after some scenes in a movie at the theater triggered some painful memories. It was completely out of character for her and I was shocked to find myself struggling to calm her as she fought to not leave the theater.

If one of the parents standing there peering down their noses at us had dared to offer 'helpful' advice right at that moment, they would have gotten an earful from me, I assure you







.


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## bullfrog (Feb 19, 2003)

The other night my DH worked really late - so when he got home I needed a break and some things from the grocery store. So, at 9PM I went alone to the grocery store - it was like heaven for the first 5 mins. Then I heard a child screaming and screaming and screaming - for about 20mins while I finished shopping. As I wandered through the store every single person I walked by made some comment about the child.

When I got in line to pay I could see the child and her family. This was a single woman was dressed in business clothes (who looked ready to cry herself), and the crying 4yo and an 8yo. She was very even toned with her child asking her to calm down and reaffirming that no, she couldn't have any candy, she had her hand lovingly placed on her childs head to try to calm her. She paid the cashier and had to pick up the now hysterical kicking 4yo and was asking her 8yo to try to push the cart. I only had one bag - so I walked over and offered to push her cart to her car for her.

I was so struck by the fact that she was in need of help and all she got was dirty looks. It made me sad for this momma - I just didn't want her to leave the store thinking that the world was against her.







:


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leersia*
Oh dear. I guess I don't really understand this thread, the point of it, or the question of the OP.

She's simply asking if anyone feels that other parents feel bad (embarrassed, angry, upset, etc.) when their kids are acting up but yours are not.









~Nay


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## juliansmom (Jul 7, 2006)

_captain crunchy wrote:

I don't think "well-behvaved" children make it more difficult for "other" children... I think parents of "well-behaved" children do though sometimes.

Children are "well-behaved" for a variety of reasons though. I was the perfect angel in public because I knew if I wasn't I would get the crap beat outta me --eh, I mean "spanked"._

Very well said! In fact, I was a perfectly behaved child because my father was a "strict disciplinarian." Yes, it made me look good to the world, but it taught me absolutely nothing about self-discipline and control.


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