# Another airplane question - regular seatbelt VS carseat



## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

So I've read a few threads about having a child under age 2 in a carseat VS being on a parent's lap, and it seems that while accidents are turbulance are very rare and airplane travel is generally very safe either way, in the event of a crash, the carseat is much safer.

Now, what about a child over age 2 who has a seat on the plane? Any evidence on regular seatbelt usage VS being in a carseat? I just read that the FAA recommends that children between 20 and 40 pounds be in a carseat rather than use the seatbelt.

However, DH is adamantly opposed to bringing two carseats onto the plane when we go to Maui in March. Both my kids are under 40 pounds.

When we went last year, DS was a lap baby and we brought the carseat for DD (3 at the time). She refused to sit in it and just wanted to sit in our laps anyway. It was such a hassle carrying the thing to the plane and having her freak out on the flight (because our friend's DD who is the same age and on the same flight didn't have her carseat, but she is a much taller, heavier kid) that on the way home, I conceded and checked both carseats and let DD just use the seatbelt.

This year, it would be lugging TWO heavy carseats along with all our carryon baggage (both kids have food allergies, so we have to carry extra stuff) to the plane, where there are no more carts available (at our airport, you leave the carts when you drop off your checked baggage). I think this is the main concern for DH, but his other issue is that it's 'dorky, overprotective and unecessary' to be bringing a carseat onto an airplane when there's no rule saying you have to.

I agree on the point that it would be far less of a hassle to just check the carseats with our other checked baggage, but then there's also the concern that the carseats get banged around and damaged enroute.

He already thinks I'm an overprotective, paranoid parent because I worry about things like pesticides, vaccinations and chemicals in mattresses. He's a very laid back, easy going guy, and thinks I'm crazy.

Any advice?


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

A harnessed seat is probably the safest for everyone including adults. (I seem to recall that technically even adults would do better rear facing in cars--other than the driver obviously!--but it isn't practical.) That said...

I think the biggest issue is probably around the difficulty in keeping the belt in the right place with a wiggly young child, much like with booster seats. Along with the potential for the car seats being damaged in transit. Can you do one of the harness strap things that give a 5 point harness from a regular airplane seat? That would be easy to carry. You know, like the CARES advertised below?







Nice work, googleads!

The least banging around of car seats is probably via gate check, but that means lugging it through the airport just to check it, which seems kind of pointless. Your kids aren't big enough for a RideSafer Travel Vest are they? I love that for DD. So portable! It's only for vehicles though, not planes.


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## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

Using a car seat in a plane for pure safety reasons is not really rational although it might feel so. Kids dying in turbulence every year is zero and the chance of a child surviving a crash only due to being in a car seat is just to small to even measure. It could happen though.

But there might be good reasons for using a seat on the plane such as child sleeping better, being more calm, and also transporting the seat safetly and being able to use it on the ground at arrival.

My first 3 years I did 50 or so flights with the kids and always broguht my rear facing seats regardless of lcoation. I always checked them in car seat bags which were padded and also added diapers, clother, etc for exra protection. I always felt comfortable with this aproach and it has worked perfectly.

Car seats are not delicate china and I would worry more about them not making it to the desination than being damaged. The seat that you buy in your retail store has been transported to the loaction in the same way. By truck, train, air, boat, etc. and almost always with no protection and only inside a thin cardboard box.

People have all kinds of different experiences with lap babies and car seat babies. My experience is that I prefer to be around lap babies with a factor of 10 to 1 but others might have different experiences.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

We always use our seats on the plane. The kids are used to them and can sleep in them.


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Thanks for the replies.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
A harnessed seat is probably the safest for everyone including adults. (I seem to recall that technically even adults would do better rear facing in cars--other than the driver obviously!--but it isn't practical.) That said...

Yes, I've read that too!

Quote:

Can you do one of the harness strap things that give a 5 point harness from a regular airplane seat? That would be easy to carry.
I might look into one of these as well - thanks!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
Using a car seat in a plane for pure safety reasons is not really rational although it might feel so. Kids dying in turbulence every year is zero and the chance of a child surviving a crash only due to being in a car seat is just to small to even measure. It could happen though.

Yes, you're probably right.

Quote:

But there might be good reasons for using a seat on the plane such as child sleeping better, being more calm, and also transporting the seat safetly and being able to use it on the ground at arrival.
I'm not sure if my DS would fall asleep unassisted in the carseat on the plane, although he does in the car. Both kids would probably prefer to be held in laps to fall asleep, but then the car seat would be handy for a secure spot (in terms of holding their head and neck in the right spot) to transfer them to once asleep.

Quote:

The seat that you buy in your retail store has been transported to the loaction in the same way. By truck, train, air, boat, etc. and almost always with no protection and only inside a thin cardboard box.
Yes, you're right. I've heard this before too, and I guess it's worth consideration. Your padded bag is a good idea, though.


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## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

After watching all the boosters and then my Scenera come crashing and tumbling down the chute, to SLAM into the "fence" on the luggage carousel, I gate-check even if I am not using the seat on the plane. So for me, I would be lugging those things to the gate anyway, and it's a moot conversation. If you're not sure of the forces on normally checked carseats, spend a few hours watching luggage carousels at your airport, it'll change your mind!

"at our airport, you leave the carts when you drop off your checked baggage"

Could drive or train it down to Seattle; they let you take the smarte carte beyond the secure area there.









That said, my son has sat nicely on the plane in the seat with the seatbelt since he was...3.5. He did well in the carseat too...he's basically a good traveler except when hungry and as long as I bring "ear planes" to help with descent, and I discovered that he would do fine in the normal seat when I was traveling home alone with him and just couldn't handle the idea of carrying his Scenera over everyone's heads when we were getting on our nearly full connecting flight, and I just had the gate people gate-check it as we boarded.


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## Lilypie32 (Aug 19, 2008)

I find it too burdersome to take a carseat onto a plane. Just not worth the hassle. DS sits fine in the seatbelt on the plane as long as I bring his portable DVD player. We always rent a carseat at our destination.


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkybean* 
After watching all the boosters and then my Scenera come crashing and tumbling down the chute, to SLAM into the "fence" on the luggage carousel, I gate-check even if I am not using the seat on the plane. So for me, I would be lugging those things to the gate anyway, and it's a moot conversation. If you're not sure of the forces on normally checked carseats, spend a few hours watching luggage carousels at your airport, it'll change your mind!

Yikes. I guess the safest thing for the safety of your carseat is to either take it onto the plane with you, OR leave it in your car, have a friend drive you to the airport in your own car and have a relative bring a trusted carseat (or brand new one) in their car to pick you up at your destination.

Many times rented carseats are a bit suspect because a) you don't know the accident history of the seat and b) there's often no manual for it. There's the odd lucky time when a renter gets a brand new carseat with manual straight out of the box, but that's just pure luck.

Quote:

Could drive or train it down to Seattle; they let you take the smarte carte beyond the secure area there.








LOL - we actually thought about driving there if it meant one fewer connection and a cheaper ticket, but we found better flights from Vancouver this time.


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## mimid (Dec 29, 2004)

Having just flown internationally with three two year-olds I can tell you that, despite what the airlines may say, a lapbelt on the plane won't hold them in at all. My girls didn't want to be buckled and kept squirming out. At take-off and landing I had to hold two of them into their seats while dh dealt with the third.


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimid* 
Having just flown internationally with three two year-olds I can tell you that, despite what the airlines may say, a lapbelt on the plane won't hold them in at all. My girls didn't want to be buckled and kept squirming out. At take-off and landing I had to hold two of them into their seats while dh dealt with the third.

Hmmm, good point. I didn't even really think of that. DD is generally a good 'listener' and can be reasoned with, but DS sometimes can't. If he's freaking out for whatever reason during take off or landing, it might be hard to keep him in the seat.


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## khanni (Jan 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkybean* 
I gate-check even if I am not using the seat on the plane. So for me, I would be lugging those things to the gate anyway, and it's a moot conversation.

I just flew United with my kids. I couldn't get my daughter's seat installed correctly, so I decided to gate check it. Not only did I get yelled at, but was told that they DO NOT gate check carseats, only strollers, and they put it through the regular luggage check anyway. So...I'm not sure if this is policy on all airlines, just United, or if I just had a cranky baggage handler, but that is what I was told.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

This: http://www.gogobabyz.com/products/gogo_kids.html

makes it much easier to get the car seats around the airport, if that helps. (I just traveled with my two year old and my 6 month old, by myself, and used that thing and the car seat as my luggage cart, hah).

I'm shocked that any airline wouldn't gate-check the car seat. Especially since they won't accept liability for it when you check it at the counter, ya know?


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *khanni* 
I just flew United with my kids. I couldn't get my daughter's seat installed correctly, so I decided to gate check it. Not only did I get yelled at, but was told that they DO NOT gate check carseats, only strollers, and they put it through the regular luggage check anyway. So...I'm not sure if this is policy on all airlines, just United, or if I just had a cranky baggage handler, but that is what I was told.

I have gate checked with United many times. They had no idea what they were talking about.


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

we have done it all ways, lapbaby, carseat on plane, just a lapbelt and a CARES harness. My DD sat fine with just a lapbelt and with the CARES harness as well. I decided to buy the CARES harness just to give her that little bit of extra protection in case of an emergency. We don't use the carseat on the plane anymore for the following reasons:
1. It puts her feet an inch or two away from the seat in front of her and it is impossible for her not to kick said seat.
2. It makes it impossible to use the tray table
3. DH hates hauling it through the airport

We use a spare seat for travel and check it. I am with adventure dad, I don't think that coming down the baggage carousel is going to really damage a carseat. And in our case it is a $40 scenera so I am willing to lose that $$ and buy a new seat if it ever came out really damaged. We also have a padded carseat bag for travel. We are flying to Florida on Saturday and we may even rent a seat (gasp!), we are AAA members and if you rent through them with Hertz you get a free carseat rental, I am thinking about taking them up on that offer. Our packmule (aka DH) would be thrilled. Mind you my DD is still rfing in a BLVD at home so I do care greatly about her carseat safety, but ymmv.
Good Luck!


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Thanks for all the insights! I have a few options to mull over and present to DH. . .

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prothyraia* 
This: http://www.gogobabyz.com/products/gogo_kids.html

makes it much easier to get the car seats around the airport, if that helps. (I just traveled with my two year old and my 6 month old, by myself, and used that thing and the car seat as my luggage cart, hah).

This looks like a great product! Will look into it more.

We haven't flown much with the kids, but the 2 times we have, we were told they didn't do gate check with car seats either - once with Air Canada, and the other with West Jet.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
Car seats are not delicate china and I would worry more about them not making it to the desination than being damaged. The seat that you buy in your retail store has been transported to the loaction in the same way. By truck, train, air, boat, etc. and almost always with no protection and only inside a thin cardboard box.

Every car seat I've ever bought has been in form-fitted packing foam to keep it stable inside that box... which was always made of thick corrugated cardboard, suitable for shipping.

The big concern about damage to carseats is damage that you CANNOT see. Stress to the plastic may be invisible to the eye, even if you do take the trouble to take the cover off and really look at it. But that stress can cause the carseat to fail in an accident. That is why you are supposed to replace a carseat after any accident*.

* Two brands list specific criteria for minor accidents that do not require replacing the carseat, but most brands say "any accident."


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## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

Quote:

After watching all the boosters and then my Scenera come crashing and tumbling down the chute, to SLAM into the "fence" on the luggage carousel, I gate-check even if I am not using the seat on the plane.
It's a good point but unfortunately this is not always possible or makes any difference. If you're allowed it might be a good option. Many airlines don't allow gate checking of car seats. And many airlines take your gate checked car seats and dump in down a chute and it goes together with regular luggage. So it might get treated like regular luggage even though you gate checked it.

I've flown a lot internationally with my kids and there is no way my kids are staying in lap belt during a 20 hour flight. But they are of course always fastened when warned of turbulence etc. Anyway you look at it, safety for your child on board a plane is the safest thing you can ever do. All sorts of data shows that kids are extremely safe on planes regardless or lap belt, no belt, or car seat.

Regarding foam or not for car seat during shipping, I guess it depends. For all shipping of international seats I bubble wrap seats in three layers and custom cut boxes. It helps a lot. But most manufacturers ship seats in thin card board boxes to all retail locations. It's really nothing different than putting a seat on the plane.

I know a seat might be damaged even though we can't see it. But the seat can handle a lot of force and the probability of invisible damage that will damage your child in a collision is extremely small.


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## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *khanni* 
I just flew United with my kids. I couldn't get my daughter's seat installed correctly, so I decided to gate check it. Not only did I get yelled at, but was told that they DO NOT gate check carseats, only strollers, and they put it through the regular luggage check anyway. So...I'm not sure if this is policy on all airlines, just United, or if I just had a cranky baggage handler, but that is what I was told.

I'm not doubting YOU, I'm doubting the gate people here.

HOW did they get it to the regular people? Regular luggage people are back at the check in area...they took it back through the airport to put it on the conveyor belt to go through it all and get on the plane?

I've taken the carseat on Virgin America, Jet Blue, and Southwest in the last year, and they just take it and the Volo stroller, walk down the stairs at the end of the ramp, give it to the luggage people. The luggage people put it into the plane, and it's all reversed at the end of the flight.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
It's a good point but unfortunately this is not always possible or makes any difference. If you're allowed it might be a good option. Many airlines don't allow gate checking of car seats. And many airlines take your gate checked car seats and dump in down a chute and it goes together with regular luggage. So it might get treated like regular luggage even though you gate checked it.

I won't take an airline that doesn't gate check carseats.

And there's a huge difference in the sheer number of forces between checking and gate checking. Yes, gate checking might involve the item being tossed up into the luggage hold and then back down. But checking involves the whole inner-airport process and whatever gorillas they hire there (we lost a zipper off our suitcase last flight), along with getting it up into and out of the luggage hold, and then getting it back through the system, onto the conveyor, and down the carousel.

I'm taking the shorter path with the fewest crash bangs.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
It's a good point but unfortunately this is not always possible or makes any difference. If you're allowed it might be a good option. Many airlines don't allow gate checking of car seats.

I'm not sure that's true. United doesn't have a policy against it, as other posters have said. The story told earlier in this thread is the only one I've ever heard of like this. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure they MUST gate-check strollers... so if you have a baby bucket and a stroller frame, they have to check the carseat too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
And many airlines take your gate checked car seats and dump in down a chute and it goes together with regular luggage. So it might get treated like regular luggage even though you gate checked it.

That's true... which is one reason to buy a seat for the baby.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
I've flown a lot internationally with my kids and there is no way my kids are staying in lap belt during a 20 hour flight. But they are of course always fastened when warned of turbulence etc. Anyway you look at it, safety for your child on board a plane is the safest thing you can ever do. All sorts of data shows that kids are extremely safe on planes regardless or lap belt, no belt, or car seat.

The data show that *all* persons are extremely safe on airplanes, regardless of seatedness or beltedness. Children are not inherently safer than adults, though (if anything, the reverse is true). Therefore, it's reasonable to maintain the same safety standards for children as for adults.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
Regarding foam or not for car seat during shipping, I guess it depends. For all shipping of international seats I bubble wrap seats in three layers and custom cut boxes. It helps a lot.

I imagine it would. That's different from just checking the seat in a plastic bag.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
But most manufacturers ship seats in thin card board boxes to all retail locations.

I guess I don't buy seats from "most manufacturers" then. All our Britax seats and our Graco Nautilus came in corrugated boxes with packing material. I can ask my mom what the Safeguard came in, and Saturday I'll know what the TrueFit comes in.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
It's really nothing different than putting a seat on the plane.

Except that the seats are shipped to the stores in large numbers of identical boxes, packed in shipping containers and pallets to minimize footprint and shifting. Checked baggage is packed as well as possible, but since everything's of different sizes and packed under different conditions, there's far from the same level of optimization. The loading and unloading is enormously different, though; checked baggage is literally tossed back and forth, while store stock is forklifted off the truck, then handtrucked to storage and the sales floor, without the same kind of time pressure.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
I know a seat might be damaged even though we can't see it. But the seat can handle a lot of force and the probability of invisible damage that will damage your child in a collision is extremely small.

I'm afraid the remoteness of the chance wouldn't console me if my carseat failed in an accident after I'd checked it as baggage, though. :-/ We take the risks we can live with.


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

I'm now leaning towards somehow coercing DH to take the car seats onto the plane, possibly with a shoulder strap or luggage strap to help transport it through the airport. . . .

However, I have another question regarding checking carseats. . . . this is really just to make myself feel better because I'm still using the two carseats that were checked last year.

Does it make a difference as to what the seats are made out of? We have two Radian 65 seats, which I understand have a stainless steel frame. Would it be the frame that absorbs the impact in the event of a car accident? And if so, would the potentially damaged plastic parts of this seat (from banging around in the airport) really compromise the safety that much?


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## Love_My_Bubba (Jul 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lilypie32* 
I find it too burdersome to take a carseat onto a plane. Just not worth the hassle. DS sits fine in the seatbelt on the plane as long as I bring his portable DVD player. We always rent a carseat at our destination.

You rent a carseat?







I'm not trying to flame you but how do you have any idea that the rental seat is safe?


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## Lilypie32 (Aug 19, 2008)

The car company we rent from, its a private firm, will not reuse any seat that has been in ANY accident and it always comes with instruction and a certified teah to install it. I'm certified so that isn't needed but its just easier to let someone else install it when I'm busy with my ds.


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## mamatoakd (Jun 11, 2008)

One more thing to consider is that carseats generally need to be installed in window seats. Do you have a window seat for each of the carseats?


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatoakd* 
One more thing to consider is that carseats generally need to be installed in window seats. Do you have a window seat for each of the carseats?

Thanks. I just did some research on car-seat.org tonight, and read the same thing about them needing to be in window seats. The plane has 3 seats in each row, so we would have had to occupy two rows anyway. We'll just take a window and middle seat in either two adjoining rows, or two across. Hopefully the plane won't be so full that there will be other people in our rows (for our sake and theirs!).


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Going back to the original question for a moment, I think there's good reason for toddlers to be in carseats on the plane. We just got back from our holiday vacation and my 30lb two year old was in his car seat for three of our four flights. The last one we ended up not using it (long story), and even when we tightened the belt down as much as we could he could *easily* stand up right out of it, roll over and start to slide out the bottom, etc. Keeping him in it was a PITA, but I also have no confidence that in case of severe turbulence/crash/etc. that he wouldn't just fly right out of the thing.

If you have a child that will just sit there, I can see how it wouldn't be obvious that they can come out of the seat so very easily.


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## Love_My_Bubba (Jul 4, 2006)

I'm going to repeat the same thing I do in every other "Do I take the carseat on the airplane" thread. I am a former flight attendant and am the daughter and step-daughter to current flight attendants. Between the 3 of us (Me, my mom and step-father) we have roughly 15,360 flight hours and 500 training hours.

I have seen too many videos of tragedy and seen too many things with my own eyes to EVER consider not having my child in a car seat on an aircraft, even when I know the Captain or First Officer, which I routinely do as I travel with my mom when she's working a lot.

Most mothers I know wouldn't even let their child ride in a car around the block unrestrained in a neighborhood on the off chance that something might happen. So why would those same people put their precious children in a hollow metal tube going 400 miles an hour at 40,000 feet with a stranger at the wheel?

What most people would never think of is that there is less risk from a child flying out of a parent's arms during turbulence than of a cruch injury to the LO. That's not to say that I haven't watched 4 children levitate and crash to the ground during a sudden drop but I saw a child with a fractured rib because a parent held them too tightly during an emergency.

After the crash of United Airlines flight 232 in Sioux City, IA in 1989 the body of an infant was found in a CLOSED overhead bin. It is believed that the bin was open for the flight attendants to retreive their smoke hoods (these have an official name) and the force of the infant hitting the back of the bin made it slam closed. People survived this unbelievably horrible tragedy, if you ever saw footage of the crash you'd never be able to get it out of your mind. I'm sure you could find it online somewhere, I saw it in my initial 6 week training.

Now, I know people are going to say this is an easy decision for me because I get discounted flights, WRONG! If we travel for any specific event or for a holiday we buy confirmed tickets for all of us at the same price anyone else would pay. It's that important.

I know the rebuttals to my post, I've heard them all, but would any of us want to be the 1 out of 500 parents that say "if I had only used the carseat?"

I'm not flaming people who absolutely don't have the $$ and must travel by air, I just can't understand people who will pay tousands of $$ for a vacation and the one thing they skimp on is the safety of a small child.


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Love my Bubba - thanks for your insights. And since with your experience, I would tend to take your advice over that of others, what are your thoughts regarding a child who doesn't want to sit in the carseat on the plane?

My problem is that DD (now 4) put up a huge stinking fight last year when we brought her seat onboard even though I talked to her ahead of time and said it was just like riding in the car - 'carseat buckled up every time', etc. FWIW, DD's OK with riding in the carseat while in our car and has not put up a fight since infancy.

And because it isn't *law* that you have to use a car seat on a plane like in a car, DH's first reaction is to forego the carseat because DD hates it so much. His reasoning is that if it's really that much of a safety issue, they would make it illegal to *not* have your child in a carseat. During stressful times, DH's priority is to get through the event quickly and painlessly. An issue that's not important to him, like carseat use on a plane, takes the back burner in a huge way, and he's very stubborn (kind of like my DD







), and often 'cuts off his nose to spite his face', so if he was in a bad mood on travel day and the kids were freaking out, and I insisted on bringing the car seats onto the plane, he would probably just turn around and go home. In fact, right after we booked the flights, I said I wanted to bring both carseats onto the plane and he said 'if you do that, I'm not going'.

We've since had 2 more conversations about it (and I've waited until he was in a good mood to bring it up!), but while he hasn't spelled it out so blatently, he's still very opposed to bringing DD's seat at least. He may relent to bringing only DS's.

So, with DH opposed to taking the car seat onto the plane for the DD freaking out reason, plus the 'lugging it through the airport' reason, I'm at a bit of a loss.

Even if *I* carry both carseats, or find a way to more easily transport them, he'll still be pi$$ed off at me if DD freaks out on the plane and won't sit in it after lugging it all around. He *may* be OK with bringing a CARES harness for one or both children. I'd like to bring both seats, but may have to compromise on this one - either only bring DS's seat onto the plane, and a CARES harness for DD, or possibly a CARES harness for both. . .

What are your thoughts on CARES? Thanks.


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

We just flew NorthWest with the girls... we bought a seat for each girl and brought their seats on the plane. We have Radian's and they fold "kinda flat" so for getting around the airport we strapped one car seat to one rolling luggage (the overhead compartment sized bag)... it wasn't exactly "fun", but with DH pulling one bag/seat duo and my pulling the other it wasn't too unwieldy.

I've also seen adapters that turn regular car seats into rolling seats with extended handles (so you can actually pull/push your little one around the airport in their seat







) and one flight stewardess was telling us all about the different slings/straps/wheels/carts she has seen for getting car seats around easily. So there are products out there.

Our experience was pretty good... dd1 (3.75) was fine being in her seat. We simply told her that we stay in our seat during a flight, just like we do when we're in the car. Northwest asks that you leave your lap belt on during the flight any time you're sitting so dd1 certainly saw that everyone else was wearing their belts as well. DD2 (19mo) was a tougher sell on the first flight... she doesn't like to be in her seat if she isn't moving, and we had to keep going through de-icing and then waiting. She screamed like a banshee for about 30 minutes while we were on the ground because she wanted out of her seat. But once we were in the air she fell asleep.

I think the seats were a big help in making the flight feel more normal to the girls. And although there was some hassle getting around the airport with the seats (they fold, but they still weigh 20 lbs or so) it was worth it. We knew we were getting seats for the girls even though dd2 could be a lap babe, and we knew we wanted their seats at our destination, and it just never occured to us _not_ to use their seats on the plane.

Oh, although we did have one window seat on one flight we didn't have any window seats on the other flights and this was never a problem. The only problem was that one flight had DH and dd1 sitting in the row ahead of an exit row and I guess you can't have a car seat in that row either? So they moved people around... which was annoying for everyone but not a huge problem. And there was one family on our return flight who had a hard back/restraint style booster seat and they weren't allowed to use it (the flight staff put it in a closet at the front of the plane?). So just double check that your seat is FAA approved.









Oh, and we got bumped up to first class at one point and it was a LOT easier to get the car seat into that seat... the extra inch or so made a huge difference. So, ummm, if they offer you an upgrade go for it!


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## Love_My_Bubba (Jul 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alison's Mom* 
What are your thoughts on CARES? Thanks.

I ADORE the CARES strap! It, IMHO, is the one acceptable exception to the carseat rule and is especially helpful with a child who refuses a carseat on the aircraft. I talked with the designer of the strap and was given some info on the design and testing of the strap and the process of getting the strap FAA approved. Unfortunately it was all verbal or I'd pass it along.

In fact, we just bought ours and will be taking our first trip with it next weekend. If you do get it though, be sure to always travel with your info card that is included with the strap. It is still relatively new to the market and there are quite a few Flight Attendants who are unfamiliar with it and will fight you on it. Show them the card and inform them that this device is FAA approved for ALL PHASES of flight, taxi, takeoff, inflight and landing.

I'd just be sure to watch the instructional DVD, just like a carseat, the strap is useless unless used properly. I really hope that this is a happy medium for you and your husband, I'm just very lucky that my DH has heard my horror stories and totally goes along with my over-the-top safety measures.

It's very compact and light, you could easily fit two straps in your purse. Let me know how it goes and if you like the strap (Should you choose to get it







)


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## SpringRain (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alison's Mom* 
Does it make a difference as to what the seats are made out of? We have two Radian 65 seats, which I understand have a stainless steel frame. Would it be the frame that absorbs the impact in the event of a car accident? And if so, would the potentially damaged plastic parts of this seat (from banging around in the airport) really compromise the safety that much?

My son's Britax was destroyed by Alaska Airlines in August. We checked it with the baggage and when we got it out of the bag to strap into my in-law's car, big chunks of the styrofoam fell out of it!! They wouldn't even replace it and my son and I had to wait at the airport while my husband and in-laws ran to the nearest store to get a new one!







:

I will NEVER check another car seat! Luckily, we only travel with the kids to visit family so we just bought boosters to keep there and the big girls use the lap belt on the plane while we carry on my son's seat. I'd rather haul the damn thing through 2 airports then risk putting him in a damaged seat. I shutter to imagine if we hadn't had the foam fall out (which was the only way we knew it was damaged!)


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Regarding possible damage of checking the carseat... I know that over the years I have dropped, banged, and otherwise abused our carseats. Seems to me that these are different stresses than a seat would undergo in a car crash. So I would think that checking a seat, especially in some sort of box/carton/bag with padding, would not be the same as being in an accident. The problem with accidents is that they are incredibly sudden and strong forces going in particular directions. Drops and bangs are not nearly so violent and cause different stresses. I can picture the physics, but I probably can't explain it.

Airplanes are safer than cars. While I would definitely advocate buying a seat for an infant and using an infant seat (cause they can't physically sit in a regular seat) toddlers/preschoolers are different. If it works to take carseats for them (largely for their comfort), then great. But if it doesn't, I don't think you are endangering your child's life (more than your own) by not doing it. Of course, you will need to make sure they will stay buckled when the seatbelt light is on, and that could be an interesting discipline issue. Adding an approved harness option would probably be good.

Personally, it would not be worth a divorce over, YK?


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## SpringRain (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Love_My_Bubba* 
I ADORE the CARES strap! It, IMHO, is the one acceptable exception to the carseat rule and is especially helpful with a child who refuses a carseat on the aircraft. I talked with the designer of the strap and was given some info on the design and testing of the strap and the process of getting the strap FAA approved. Unfortunately it was all verbal or I'd pass it along.

In fact, we just bought ours and will be taking our first trip with it next weekend.

I love to hear how you like it. We've thought of getting one for ds and just leaving a seat for him at the in-laws house like the dds' boosters. I'm afraid that he would have no trouble unlatching the airline seat belt, because they are so different from a cars and you just have to lift the latch, and I'd hate to be wrangling with him over that the whole trip!! He is a VERY active little boy!


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## Love_My_Bubba (Jul 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SpringRain* 
I love to hear how you like it. We've thought of getting one for ds and just leaving a seat for him at the in-laws house like the dds' boosters. I'm afraid that he would have no trouble unlatching the airline seat belt, because they are so different from a cars and you just have to lift the latch, and I'd hate to be wrangling with him over that the whole trip!! He is a VERY active little boy!

That's definitely a good point but if there is one thing I have learned through my many, many travels with a child is that if there is ever an appropriate time for movies and bribery, it's on an airplane. I'm not talking junk food, maybe some no sugar added fruit leather and a new stuffie to love while we fly.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wombatclay* 
And there was one family on our return flight who had a hard back/restraint style booster seat and they weren't allowed to use it (the flight staff put it in a closet at the front of the plane?). So just double check that your seat is FAA approved.









*No* booster seats are approved for airplane use. If a seat can be harness or booster (like the Nautilus or the Frontier), it can be FAA approved for *harness* use, but never as a booster. I assume this is because airplanes only have lap belts, and boosters are made to use with a lap/shoulder belt.


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Thanks everyone, for providing info and sharing all your experiences!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Love_My_Bubba* 
I ADORE the CARES strap! It, IMHO, is the one acceptable exception to the carseat rule and is especially helpful with a child who refuses a carseat on the aircraft. I talked with the designer of the strap and was given some info on the design and testing of the strap and the process of getting the strap FAA approved. Unfortunately it was all verbal or I'd pass it along.

In fact, we just bought ours and will be taking our first trip with it next weekend. If you do get it though, be sure to always travel with your info card that is included with the strap. It is still relatively new to the market and there are quite a few Flight Attendants who are unfamiliar with it and will fight you on it. Show them the card and inform them that this device is FAA approved for ALL PHASES of flight, taxi, takeoff, inflight and landing.

I'd just be sure to watch the instructional DVD, just like a carseat, the strap is useless unless used properly. I really hope that this is a happy medium for you and your husband, I'm just very lucky that my DH has heard my horror stories and totally goes along with my over-the-top safety measures.

It's very compact and light, you could easily fit two straps in your purse. Let me know how it goes and if you like the strap (Should you choose to get it







)

Thanks for the info. I've read on another site that using the harness prevents the person behind you from using their tray table. Do you know if this is correct?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
Regarding possible damage of checking the carseat... I know that over the years I have dropped, banged, and otherwise abused our carseats. Seems to me that these are different stresses than a seat would undergo in a car crash.

Personally, it would not be worth a divorce over, YK?

Good point about the different stresses, and your point about the divorce is exactly what I was thinking too.


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## Love_My_Bubba (Jul 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alison's Mom* 
Thanks everyone, for providing info and sharing all your experiences!

Thanks for the info. I've read on another site that using the harness prevents the person behind you from using their tray table. Do you know if this is correct?


It doesn't prevent the person behind you from using their tray table **IF YOU USE IT CORRECTLY** When you're installing it you do have to ask the person behind your child to drop their tray, then you put the strap around the seatback, tighten it and then they put their tray back up. The only thing that effects them is that they have to look at the strap while their tray is down


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Thanks. So, is there any way that it might block the TV screen of the person behind us? I'm just trying to think of all the possibilities so if I decide to go this route, I won't have any unpleasant surprises onboard! Thanks so much for all the info.


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## Love_My_Bubba (Jul 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alison's Mom* 
Thanks. So, is there any way that it might block the TV screen of the person behind us? I'm just trying to think of all the possibilities so if I decide to go this route, I won't have any unpleasant surprises onboard! Thanks so much for all the info.

It should not block the TV screen because the strap around the seat should be at shoulder height on your child. It will definitely be down at tray table level, so no worries there!


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Thanks so much! I'll post an update when we decide what we're going to do, and how it goes. . ..


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## Love_My_Bubba (Jul 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alison's Mom* 
Thanks so much! I'll post an update when we decide what we're going to do, and how it goes. . ..









:


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lilypie32* 
The car company we rent from, its a private firm, will not reuse any seat that has been in ANY accident and it always comes with instruction and a certified teah to install it. I'm certified so that isn't needed but its just easier to let someone else install it when I'm busy with my ds.

What company is this? Inquiring minds want to know!


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