# Cemetary=environmental hazard?



## daylily (Dec 1, 2001)

These are just my random thoughts and not anything I've read about, but has anyone given any consideration to the impact of traditional American method of burying our dead on the environment?

We embalm the body, which hinders decomposition and then bury it in a steel casket that will never decompose, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the casket goes into some sort of concrete casing. What are we doing? Aren't all these bodies going to become a tad overwhelming after awhile? And is cremation much better? I suspect not.

Is there a "green" way to conduct a burial? Maybe an old-fashioned pine coffin that will biodegrade? I know it's not a hot topic, but does anyone have any thoughts?


----------



## Towerkel (Apr 20, 2003)

Ok, so, I remember hearing this (and mind you, I have no idea where I heard it, so whether it is true or not I haven't a clue);

during burial the casket goes into the ground horizontal. After a given amount of time, the casket is dug up and turned vertical, to provide more burying space.

Wouldn't it suck if they turned you the wrong way and you have to spend eternity on your head? :LOL


----------



## librarymom (May 25, 2004)

Why don't you think cremation is better?? Curious and interested, not arguing. I think this is a fascinating question and looking forward to answers. One more question: Why did you decide to post in activism??


----------



## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

Mary Rose was not embalmed and she too was put in a plain wooden casket. I could not bear the thought of putting her little precious body into a crematorium. But she is so small, she doesn't take up much space.
Gossamer


----------



## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daylily*
...We embalm the body, which hinders decomposition and then bury it in a steel casket that will never decompose, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the casket goes into some sort of concrete casing. What are we doing? Aren't all these bodies going to become a tad overwhelming after awhile? And is cremation much better? I suspect not...

Why wouldn't cremation be much better? There is no emblaming, no coffin, no concrete container, etc.


----------



## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daylily*
...Is there a "green" way to conduct a burial? Maybe an old-fashioned pine coffin that will biodegrade? I know it's not a hot topic, but does anyone have any thoughts?

Absolutely. When my BIL died, I was shocked at the expense and waste associated with burying him. It seemed to make his death, the most natural of events, seem so unnatural. (he was killed in an accidnet, so I don't mean his death was natural, I mean dying is natural...if that makes sense) It had a profound impact on my SO also (it was his brother that died). We have chosen to be cremated and our ashes scattered. No embalming, no urns, none of that. I have a lot of pages bookmarked on this subject, here are a few of them...

-The Natural Death Care Project has a ton of good information. I highly recommend this site.
-Ramsey Creek Preserve and Glendale Memorial Nature Preserve combine "old-fashioned" burial practices with nature stewardship.
-Natural Death is based in London, but on their homepage, you can click on "USA & Canada" to get a ton of good information on alternatives to traditional, expensive funerals. Scroll down for links on everything from burial at sea to where to buy cardboard coffins.

If you still want a "traditional" funeral, please at least look at books/webpages like this one or this one. I know not everyone assiciated with the funeral industry is a crook, but there are enough of them out there, making huge profits off of people's grief, to warrent being careful.


----------



## daylily (Dec 1, 2001)

Thanks for all the replies.

To answer some questions: Why do I worry about cremation? Simply because we're incinerating something and sending more smoke, etc into the atmosphere. These days, even wood stoves can be considered polluting. I suppose there could be regulations in place requiring crematoriums to have filtered chimneys, but I don't know if such regulations exist.

Why did I post this in Activism? Because this is an environmental issue which I think fits in activism.

Nursing Mother and Gossamer,







When my mom died, she was buried in a pine box, but the funeral home people were rude to us when we chose her casket. The pine casket was cheapest and they tried to make us feel like we didn't love my mom enough to pay for an expensive casket--which wasn't the case at all! She left specific instructions on how to run her funeral and burial. But that funeral director made us all feel awful. I guess this is another reason I put this in Activism: why should funeral home directors pressure people to buy many unnecessary extras? It isn't ethical.

Finally, I'm not opposed to burying people. I guess my main objection is to the giant steel caskets. When you think of the natural resources and energy that goes into producing something that will then be buried forever--well, it seems kind of wasteful.

Not to criticize people who've chosen a steel casket! I'm not trying to upset anyone who has lost a loved one. I do think that the funeral industry could be more environmentally conscious.

Thanks for the links, pugmadmama.


----------



## grnbn76 (Mar 3, 2004)

I believe (it's been way too long since I've actually looked into it) that you can buy an "alternate container"...basically a pine box. It's the minimum that most states require.
And for the actual funeral, if you don't want people to see the "boring" box, you can rent a "regular" casket that the alternate container will fit inside.

My parents live directly across from a very old cemetery. They no longer have ground room, only the upright vaults. (Very scary to watch them put a casket inside...I'm still convinced they're going to drop one one of these days...).

I'm all for cremation.


----------



## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

In some countries, like in Turkey, you "lease" your burial space for ten years or so, then you're cremated.

I am definitely into cremation, but then again, I have major issues with the way we treat our dead and the funeral industry as a whole. (THe book The American Way of Death is a great read - by Jessica Mitford, who also wrote The American Way of Birth).

I used to work at a mortuary/cemetary and that's where my bias comes from. My dh knows that I am NOT to be in a funeral home. I am to be laid up at home or at the coroner's (depends on how I die) and then cremated. I'd rather have the money go to my family.


----------



## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

NM, It doesn't sound morbid at all. This happend to you. It (death) happens to every family. I really appreciate your willingness to share your experience. It gives me hope for myself and my family. It gives me a reference point when some pushy public servant tries to bully me into moving a loved ones body from home _immediately_. Or when some funeral director tells me that it's _impossible_ to have a viewing at home.

I truly believe we are with death where we were with birth a few decades ago. The medical model nearly "won", but some women remembered that birth was _natural_ and that that was valuable. I think people in the USA are starting to remember that death is natural too. That the things we've come to associate with death (immediatly turning the body over to some authority, etc.) are not mandatory. We have choices.

I am so thankful that you and your beloved Jordan were treated with respect.


----------



## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

My mom's good friend died in hospital last week, and she was brought back to her house and put in bed until the funeral. I'd like that, but it was in Ireland, where it's more accepted.

My friend's husband died in Canada 4 years ago, and as he was being cremated, she rented the outer coffin. $1800.

Luckily dh and I agree on the cheapest method possible. Maybe I should rent a digger and put him in the back yard when the time comes!!


----------



## daylily (Dec 1, 2001)

I don't think you're being morbid or OT, Nursing Mother.







And I'm so glad that you and your family and Jordan were treated with such kindness.

But I do think that Pam has a valid point about the funeral business--not to say, of course, that all funeral homes are unscrupulous, but I know there are some out there that take advantage of people.


----------



## AnnMarie (May 21, 2002)

I do not want to be embalmed. Do you get flack for that? I've left instructions with everyone I know so I hope someone will speak up and let it be known what I want when I die.


----------



## AmandasMom (Nov 19, 2001)

I saw on the news last week, network news or local news I forgot, about new cemetarys that bury you in a compostable casket and the body isn't embalmed. Basically they let you biodegrade in peace. That's the way I want to go when my time is up.


----------



## daylily (Dec 1, 2001)

Wow! It's good to know that those options are being offered, Amanda's mom.


----------



## AmandasMom (Nov 19, 2001)

I know there are places in the US, but here is a website from the UK that explains what exactly I'm talking about. http://www.funeralsearch.co.uk/woodlands.php Definately the way I want to be buried.


----------



## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

Dh grandma did not want to be embalmed. It basically meant that it had to be a closed casket and she had to be buried within three days. That was fine with us and the funeral home was really great about it.


----------



## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

DH and I were JUST talking about this tonight. We're driving and here is this huge cemetary. I apologize in advance to those hold cememtaries in high regard- but for me I couldn't help but say what a waste of space. I used to think that once the funeral was over the bodies went in the ground without the box. At the time I was Christian and all the scriptures about returning to the dust made me assume that when we die that is what we were "supposed" to do. I was suprised to find out otherwise.

DH said he thought people starting using caskets before modern technology allowed them to dig as deep as they do. They would do that to help keep wild animals from digging the body up. I can totally see that- how disturbing that would be. But now- well now we've moved beyond that and we're able to dig much deeper. I really believe we should be able to be buried directly in the ground- that is what I want. I want my remains to mix with the earth.

Since that isn't possible our wish is to be cremated. I despise the idea of it- but I do think it is the best option with current regulations.

The generations ahead will curse our generation for the damage we've done.


----------



## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

Rainbow - I actually like cemeteries, some are like beautiful parks or arboretums and sometimes they are the only green space around in an urban area. I also like the idea of a memorial stone or slab or tree or what-have-you. Although I do agree that the practice of embalming someone and burying them in a steel casket inside a concrete liner is not very ecologically friendly. I would much rather just be buried in a pine box. I hope the worms think I am yummy.


----------



## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

AmandasMom - Biodegrade in Peace! :LOL Instead of RIP, I want BIP on my stone!


----------



## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow*
I want my remains to mix with the earth. Since that isn't possible our wish is to be cremated.

Why isn't this possible? I am pretty sure it is OK - I thought it was just a myth perpetuated by the funeral directors that embalming, etc. is required by law.


----------



## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

maybe it is- but I thought you had to be buried in a box. Even a wood box that will eventually break down, won't until years after I'm decomposed.

Sorry but I'm LOL at "I hope the worms think I'm yummy"







:

I don't know why I dislike cemetaries. I don't think they are pretty. I think they are impersonal and formal and just to uniform. I'd mcuh rather having something more personal to remember people I love by. I don't know what... but not a cemetary.


----------



## Robyn (Jun 18, 2002)

I think the way most people bury there loved ones can be a hazard on the enviroment and I think it's horrible how a lot of funeral homes try to upsale a burial package......all in the name of money with no regards to what the person can afford or about the enviroment. I live in a community where we have two cremetoriums and I personally think that is even worse then being put into a steel coffin. I used to be totally for cremation untill I found out how bad it is on our air. There are articles in my local paper all the time with people wanting the cremetoriums shut down because we are breathing in mercury when people have sliver fillings in there mouths and when they are burned the mercury vapors goes into the air and we breath it.


----------



## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pugmadmama*
Absolutely. When my BIL died, I was shocked at the expense and waste associated with burying him. It seemed to make his death, the most natural of events, seem so unnatural. (he was killed in an accidnet, so I don't mean his death was natural, I mean dying is natural...if that makes sense) It had a profound impact on my SO also (it was his brother that died). We have chosen to be cremated and our ashes scattered. No embalming, no urns, none of that. I have a lot of pages bookmarked on this subject, here are a few of them...

-The Natural Death Care Project has a ton of good information. I highly recommend this site.
-Ramsey Creek Preserve and Glendale Memorial Nature Preserve combine "old-fashioned" burial practices with nature stewardship.
-Natural Death is based in London, but on their homepage, you can click on "USA & Canada" to get a ton of good information on alternatives to traditional, expensive funerals. Scroll down for links on everything from burial at sea to where to buy cardboard coffins.

If you still want a "traditional" funeral, please at least look at books/webpages like this one or this one. I know not everyone assiciated with the funeral industry is a crook, but there are enough of them out there, making huge profits off of people's grief, to warrent being careful.

WOW- I always thought th idea of buying a burial space before I died to be silly and now I'm considering it. What great links, thanks!


----------



## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

Wanted to add a bit more now that I have a little more time -

In the mid 1800s, there was a movement to create cemeteries that would be like public parks. The designers envisioned large green areas with lots of different specimens of trees, flowers, and plants amid statuary and mausoleums that were intended to be pieces of art. It was supposed to be a place where you could come to have a picnic on Sunday. The Mt. Auburn cemetery in Boston was the first of its kind here in the US. I used to live near there and it truly is beautiful. The Lexington Cemetery in KY where I live now was modeled after Mt. Auburn and it too is lovely. There are lots of gardens, a fish pond, and a larger pond where ducks and geese live. It's a haven to wildlife and birds, and it's right in the city. I think this is a great idea and I wish all cemeteries were like this, instead of those more modern ones where all the slabs are set in the ground, so it looks flat and sterile, and they don't even allow plantings or even live flowers so there are all these tacky plastic flowers everywhere.









I have this thing about cemeteries, can you tell?? LOL I like to wander around in them and meditate, I find them to be incredibly peaceful (well, most of them.)


----------



## QueeTheBean (Aug 6, 2002)

I love this idea.

I started a thread about it a few months ago--search for green burials in the archives. I think I had titled it "Natural Family Dying" or something like that.


----------



## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *famousmockngbrd*
In the mid 1800s, there was a movement to create cemeteries that would be like public parks. The designers envisioned large green areas with lots of different specimens of trees, flowers, and plants amid statuary and mausoleums that were intended to be pieces of art. It was supposed to be a place where you could come to have a picnic on Sunday. The Mt. Auburn cemetery in Boston was the first of its kind here in the US. I used to live near there and it truly is beautiful. The Lexington Cemetery in KY where I live now was modeled after Mt. Auburn and it too is lovely. There are lots of gardens, a fish pond, and a larger pond where ducks and geese live. It's a haven to wildlife and birds, and it's right in the city. I think this is a great idea and I wish all cemeteries were like this, instead of those more modern ones where all the slabs are set in the ground, so it looks flat and sterile, and they don't even allow plantings or even live flowers so there are all these tacky plastic flowers everywhere.









I have this thing about cemeteries, can you tell?? LOL I like to wander around in them and meditate, I find them to be incredibly peaceful (well, most of them.)

Back when I was in Denmark for a semester during college, I remember hearing about something like this. What happens there is that the cemetery buries people on an area of land until the area is considered 'full'. Then there are a set number of years where they keep the stones up for visitation. After this number of years is done, all of the stones are supposedly removed and the area becomes a public memorial/park of sorts. I think this is a great idea.

I have always been fascinated by cemeteries...from the tiny little plots that are sitting in the middle of cornfields scattered around upstate NY to the huge cemeteries in cities and our military cemeteries with all of the headstones in precise lines....


----------



## stayinghome (Jul 4, 2002)

My hubby and I want to be cremated and then scattered, but a friend told us that it's really difficult to get permission to scatter ashes? Anyone know about that?


----------



## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:

These are just my random thoughts and not anything I've read about, but has anyone given any consideration to the impact of traditional American method of burying our dead on the environment?
I do not want to be embalmed and I have let my wishes be known. Now I just have to find a green cemetary and see if there are any regulations that need to be followed. Some states & provinces will not allow you to be buried without embalming. Sometimes it depends on whether you have to be transported(and how far), whether there is an autopsy, etc.

They can still have a viewing up to 24 or 48 hours after death for an un-embalmed body.

Did you know moriticians have one of the highest rates of cancer and that the dirt in a cemetary with embalmed bodies and the water that may be surrounding it is contaminated with embalming fluids?

I do not want to harm the earth now, I do not purposely put chemicals in my body now nor do I glue any openings shut now why would I want that after I die?


----------



## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

My MIL died 4 years ago and after she was cremated, they gave the ashes to DH with a permit for posessing human ashes (kinda wierd!) Anyway, we just went to Long Island where she had grown up and threw them into the water. (Wind was blowing at us and I got covered with them! I felt it was kind of fitting since I never got to meet her before she died...) No one told DH that he had to have a permit. Once a person has been cremated, the ashes aren't really any different from barbeque ashes, so I don't see what possible reason would be given for requiring a permit.

We both want cremation to minimize our impact on the earth. I'd like my ashes sprinkled somewhere where I liked to be but Dh refuses to talk about it. Can't say that I blame him.


----------



## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daylily*
These are just my random thoughts and not anything I've read about, but has anyone given any consideration to the impact of traditional American method of burying our dead on the environment?

Urgh! I didn't knew about that. I think pointless to conserve the bodies that way. I'm not against cryogeny though, if people wish it.


----------



## daylily (Dec 1, 2001)

Quote:

Did you know moriticians have one of the highest rates of cancer and that the dirt in a cemetary with embalmed bodies and the water that may be surrounding it is contaminated with embalming fluids?
Wow, I had no idea.


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Embalming is required in only one state of the Union - Louisana - AFAIK - since it has so much swamp land.

At least that is what my research has lead me to conclude.


----------



## magemom (Mar 5, 2002)

When DH was in the military I had to preplan his funeral. Very morbid horrible conversation. There was some class they wanted all spouses to go to and part of it was the funeral services guy. He had a sheet of questions and said he will give you 24 hours then he was going to want answers to everything ont he list. So I predid it. DH refused to be apart of the conversation. Closed casket- no embalming. Wooden casket, burial near his parents.

Since then I learned that there is a Jewish tradition of burial in a wooden coffin with no metal. Found my simple pine box! That is all I wanted. I do not know the reason behaind it, but I was so glad to find there was such a thing available with out too much fuss. At least I hope a non Jew can buy them...

DD came up while I was googling caskets and burial laws in my state and is all freaked out. I keep telling her I was curious but she won't listen. She is now convinced I am not telling her something.


----------



## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daylily*
has anyone given any consideration to the impact of traditional American method of burying our dead on the environment?

yep, Viking funeral for me please, gracias.


----------



## TinyFrog (Jan 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
... I do not want to harm the earth now, I do not purposely put chemicals in my body now *nor do I glue any openings shut now why would I want that after I die?*

bolding mine.

glued shut







:
uke

cremate me and put my ashes in my lake. If for some reason I can't be created, than I'll take a nice plain pine box and no embalming.


----------



## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Well.

Wow...... that thread sure was a blast from the past....... I miss alot of those people.

BUt anyway, I vote for the pine box option. I'm fine with being buried, just please plant a tree near or on top of me.


----------



## tuansprincess (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nursing Mother* 
Hasn't burying been around a long long time.....and its not just a western thing is it?

It is my understanding that in Japan, everyone is cremted because there is no room on the island for burying.


----------



## hibana (Jun 9, 2006)

I want to be burned on a pyre or have a Viking burial. Both are illegal where I live. *grumble grumble* So, I settled for cremation. (eta: not dead yet!)

Why would people want their bodies preserved? They're dead- they don't need them anymore.


----------



## Gendenwitha (Apr 2, 2002)

There was a great show on public television called "A family undertaking" it was actually very similar to the home-birth movement. Very sweet show. I hope that one day we can live somewhere where we can have our own family cemetery. Then I want to build a stone wall around it with all the names of our ancestors who are not buried there on the stones around the wall.

As it is now, we go up about 2 hrs north to put flowers on the grave of my great- and great-great-grandparents, and the kids and I all have lovely time with my great-aunt hearing about where they lived in town where her father worked etc, and she goes through the cemetery and tells us about each of the family members, and some of the neighbors names that she recognizes. It's great seeing the kids run through the cemetery, and we talk about the kinds of lives the people might have lived.


----------



## Gendenwitha (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hibana* 
I want to be burned on a pyre or have a Viking burial. Both are illegal where I live. *grumble grumble* So, I settled for cremation. (eta: not dead yet!)

So you tell the authorites you're going to be buried at home... and your family just happens to have a large bonfire that day... who's going to know?







:


----------



## Ambrose (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gendenwitha* 
So you tell the authorites you're going to be buried at home... and your family just happens to have a large bonfire that day... who's going to know?







:


Bwahaha!! Until 40 years later when some random person walks by and sees a bone and authorities think some killer came buy and buried a body.... I mean, you didn't kill em but you did burn and bury...














:

Although- I do really like that burning at home idea...


----------



## pjabslenz (Mar 25, 2004)

Sara Snow did a special on Green Funerals...she has a show Living Fresh with Sara Snow on Discovery or one of those channels. It was very interesting.


----------



## Past_VNE (Dec 13, 2003)

To incinerate a human body requires temperatures of over 1500 deg. F. A backyard bonfire would dry out a body and burn most of the flesh and organs away, but would not turn the bones to dust. So, yeah...there would definitely be bones to deal with.

I grew up in a funeral home.


----------



## alysonb (Mar 15, 2006)

This was an interesting topic in my archaeology classes years ago. It was explained that modern bodies are embalmed and then put in sealed caskets. The bodies cannot properly decompose but break down anyway and since there is nowhere for the stuff to go, well you get the picture. Based on that, I want to be cremated.

My church has a Pathway to the Son, which is a beautiful stone path that winds through the woods and has benches, a fountain and such. You can buy a stone along the path and have it engraved (much like a tombstone) and then have your ashes interred there. To me it is the perfect compromise - it is more environmentally sound and it gives my descendants a beautiful, natural place to visit my remains.


----------



## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

This has been a big area of discussion for us for a long time because I wanted to make sure my husband knew my wishes against embalming, etc. right away.

I didn't read the whole thread so I don't know if anyone has said this already, but one of the big problems that alot of people have with cremation is that most people that are cremated are _still embalmed_ first. So it's not just an issue of the plain body's burning and releasing toxins, but all that crap they fill you with during embalming too.

It's just one of those outrageous things that no one really thinks they can opt out of (and in some places I think, can't) so the family let's the funeral home do it before cremation.









Needless to say, I have written up very detailed instructions for my burial.


----------



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

:


----------



## BurgundyElephant (Feb 17, 2006)

Holy dead thread, batman!

Wrap me in a shroud and throw me in the ground. In the woods where they're not going to be putting a _housing development_ in 15 years.


----------



## ~Heyokha~ (Nov 21, 2006)

wow, interesting thread. I frequently take walks at a graveyard near my home....I have wondered about this also. isn't the whole embalming, steel casing thing fairly new?? What will be the consequences twenty years down the line? hmm....


----------



## Mab (Jul 14, 2003)

such an interesting thread


----------



## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

I think I'm going to have to write detailed instructions for my burial and put it in a safe deposit box with my will. I hate to think of all that crap going into my body, then into the earth. I want to just be placed in a plain box in nice clothes, covered with a pretty blanket, then placed in the earth, with a simple stone marker and a tree. Is that so much to ask?


----------



## RolliePollie (May 10, 2006)

Something I think that benefits well is to donate your (dead) body for research to a teaching hospital or medical university. After they are done with your body, they then cremate it for you. My sister's body was donated and after the year the students held a small memorial service for all the family members of all the bodies that were donated - to thank them. This is my personal course of action.


----------

