# 16 Year Old and Dating.....UGH



## hopeful130 (Nov 4, 2004)

Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions for rules regarding dating. My daughter turns 16 on Monday. We told her when she turned 16 she could start having the boy over for dinner and such. Anyway, she has a new boyfriend and yesterday she wanted to go "chill" with him for the afternoon. Well, I told her she'd have to "chill" here and she said that was just so "uncool".
I'm wondering if any of you are going through this or have been through this and what rules you may have applied for dating. When am I being to protective and when am I being to negligent.
I just feel so confused.







:
Any advice would be wonderful. Thanks ladies.


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## mamadege5 (Jan 5, 2005)

UGH is the right word.








Surprisingly my dh is more lenient than I ever thought he would be. I would rather have them "chill" here, what better supervision than four siblings ??? She has a curfew, with room for emergencies, late concerts, movies. We've been through a really great boyfriend, that respected our rules, came to family gatherings, introduced himself to relatives, went to church with us, but they broke up







And now we've gone thru some scuzz bags that grunt at you, look down at the floor, or don't even get out of the car but honk or call on her cell to come out.
I have no real advice just a







and pray for me because we have four DD's.


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## Emma's_Mommy (Apr 28, 2006)

i dont have any teenagers (thank god) and is been 8 year sense i was 16 so i dont have alot of advice for you.....but i wish you lots of luck!! my mom was cool when i was dating but my dad was a total @$$ about it(and other things).

Just keep your cool and make sure you and hubby have an united front....the calmer you and hubby are the more open and respectful your DD with be with you!


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## DragonflyBlue (Oct 21, 2003)

We have ground rules in place for dating.

Dating at 16, no earlier. Group dates only.

Boy/girlfriend can come to our house as long as there are adults present in the home. Same for going to their house. And yes, I do call and verify it.

Curfew is 11 pm. Later for special dates or as needed.

Guys must come to the door to get our dd's. If they can't show common courtesy and respect for our dd's, they don't need to spend time with them. We want to teach our girls that they aren't at a guys beck and call which to us, the honking and cell phone thing implies. Get off your duff, come to the door. Our dd's deserve that sign of respect. Taught the oldest ds the same thing and will teach it to the younger ones.

Always give the kids a cell or some change for a payphone so we can come to get them at any time if they feel uncomfortable or feel they are in over their heads.

Talk to the kids, get to know them before they go out on an actual date. Again, a sign of respect for us and for our kids. It also gives us a gauge on who/what the person is like. Instinct and gut feelings can be very important.

We must have phone numbers of houses they are going to, home phone numbers for the date, what time they will be back, where they are going. And they need to actually be doing something, not just "chilling." I know what "chilling" led to for me back in the day. HAHAHA

It might sound strict, but it is an ugly world out there, and kids are far too precious to just turn loose.

Janis


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hopeful130*
Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions for rules regarding dating. My daughter turns 16 on Monday. We told her when she turned 16 she could start having the boy over for dinner and such. Anyway, she has a new boyfriend and yesterday she wanted to go "chill" with him for the afternoon. Well, I told her she'd have to "chill" here and she said that was just so "uncool".
I'm wondering if any of you are going through this or have been through this and what rules you may have applied for dating. When am I being to protective and when am I being to negligent.
I just feel so confused.







:
Any advice would be wonderful. Thanks ladies.


Okay, a couple of things.

First of all, here's a disclaimer: I'm not the parent of a teenager. Therefore, much of what I say should be taken with that in mind.

However, disclaimer disclaimer: I teach high school, so I'm actually around teenagers more than I'm around any other group.

From what I've seen in my eleven years of teaching, dating is a biiiiiiiiiig mistake, particularly for girls (unless they're lesbians, which is a whole other thing).

I see little advantage for girls in dating.

1. For one thing, they will be pressured for sex, which is the primary reason guys want to date.

(Guys, if you'd like to come in and argue this point, please feel free. If sex was NOT one of your primary motives for dating people during high school, speak up now or forever hold your peace. Or your piece.







)

2. For another thing, they will be placed in comparison or competition with other girls, which tends to undermine female friendships at a time when those can be vital.

3. For a third, they're at higher risk for abuse.

4. For a fourth, they're at a way higher risk for STDs, including AIDS.

5. For a fifth, they're at a way higher risk for teenage pregnancy.

6. Their grades go down. Way down.

The limited value of "socializing" on a date is, at least for me, completely overbalanced by the problems associated with dating at so young an age. I see nothing wrong with group dating, "chilling" under adult supervision, or nonsexual/nondating activities (e.g. church retreat) with guys. I also see nothing wrong with platonic friendships. However, I strongly object to dating in high school. There's no purpose to it that can't be accomplished with regular, nonsexual socializing, and I would argue that many, many teenagers are simply not emotionally ready for sex and its consequences. Their hormones are..but that's why God gave us fingers that could reach all the way down, KWIM?

Too bad about it being "uncool." I guess you're just "uncool." Can you live with that?


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JanisB*
We have ground rules in place for dating.

Dating at 16, no earlier. Group dates only.

Boy/girlfriend can come to our house as long as there are adults present in the home. Same for going to their house. And yes, I do call and verify it.

Curfew is 11 pm. Later for special dates or as needed.

Guys must come to the door to get our dd's. If they can't show common courtesy and respect for our dd's, they don't need to spend time with them. We want to teach our girls that they aren't at a guys beck and call which to us, the honking and cell phone thing implies. Get off your duff, come to the door. Our dd's deserve that sign of respect. Taught the oldest ds the same thing and will teach it to the younger ones.

Always give the kids a cell or some change for a payphone so we can come to get them at any time if they feel uncomfortable or feel they are in over their heads.

Talk to the kids, get to know them before they go out on an actual date. Again, a sign of respect for us and for our kids. It also gives us a gauge on who/what the person is like. Instinct and gut feelings can be very important.

We must have phone numbers of houses they are going to, home phone numbers for the date, what time they will be back, where they are going. And they need to actually be doing something, not just "chilling." I know what "chilling" led to for me back in the day. HAHAHA

It might sound strict, but it is an ugly world out there, and kids are far too precious to just turn loose.

Janis

I totally agree. I know I personally have to sound like I'm a little right of Hitler, but given that the stakes are pretty high, I'd rather be the mean, overprotective, stick-Rapunzel-in-the-tower parent than an overly permissive one.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

People who "know" me around here might be suprised to hear that I am not a big fan of young teens dating. (Waiting for the gasps to fade.....







) I have made my thoughts on the subject clear time and time again to the kids, and I have invited them to do the same which they have. We work it out, will cross that bridge when we get to it, and so far neither kid is really interested. (They are 12.5 and almost 15)

All of that being said, 16 isn't quite a "young" teen anymore really, and honestly I think that is plenty old enough to go hang out with a male friend. Has she never had a male friend before this? Have you met him yet? Does she regularly make good decisions in her friendships? Can you guys have a discussion about your concerns, and can you take her concerns seriously? She really needs to feel that you take her seriously. If you are just controlling and not listening and respecting...IMO you are setting yourself up for drama and a totally uneccesary battle of the wills.


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

's and best wishes! I hope to encourage dd to have male friends and not to date till she's ready to start thinking about a committed relationship. I personally never saw the appeal of dating and mostly had guy friends since the girls seemed to be focused on tearing each other apart through malicious gossipping.

You've gotten a lot of good advice here and I hope the next couple years go easily for you









love and peace.


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Quote:

but that's why God gave us fingers that could reach all the way down, KWIM?
i got a good chuckle out of that one... thankyou


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

Hm. It's been awhile since I was that age, but some things are still fresh in my mind, for better and worse. My parents were lax with me on this; I was a quiet kid but they knew I could be incredibly stubborn, heh. Also in some ways I was learning from the school of hard knocks just as they did.

In retrospect, I wish they had put a huge priority on meeting the guy first, and gone from there. It may seem sensible to have universal rules, but IMO that actually isn't the point. A teenage girl may not really understand the difference between a good and bad guy, and the infinite shades of grey in between. They may not understand how to judge and especially, how much it matters. Universal rules have their place, but I think the most important thing you can do is model character judgement in an appropriate and honest way. Eventually she will have to learn, and even if learning the hard way when she's 21 is better than learning the hard way when she's 16, better to learn the easy way!

I think early relationships come down to

1. curiosity about sex
2. loneliness
3. discovering love and/or significant flirting

Discovering love is the nice part, right? If someone is really curious about sex, it's virtually impossible to keep them from eventually trying something. So it's more about providing information, guidance, the proper amount of discouragement and cautions, and don't make it too easy! There's a fine balance with informing a girl about protection and safety, yet keeping them aware that they can abstain or have as little sex as possible--but both are necessary. As far as loneliness is concerned, that's something a parent can do more about. As much as possible, make sure she doesn't feel isolated at home. This is where I think AP with teenagers becomes relevant and incredibly important. If she is basically unhappy and having personal/family problems she will run to relationships for escape. For this reason, even if you feel freaked, it's really important to not feel alienated from your DD.

Parents usually give "the sex ed" talk nowadays, but I think it's also important to talk about ALL the other reasons you'd be concerned about your DD dating, "chilling out", and the other situations which might come up. When teens hear the extremes like AIDS and physical abuse, I think they tune it out. It may help to know that there's a continuum and a lot of the other stuff really stinks too.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I have a 16 year old, general rule here is that we need to know where and who she is with and curfew times are decided based on the situation. And yes I need to know the person.

Quote:

She really needs to feel that you take her seriously. If you are just controlling and not listening and respecting...IMO you are setting yourself up for drama and a totally uneccesary battle of the wills.
ITA


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

It seems alot of have the same sort of rules. DD will not be allowed to date until she is at least 16 and even then it will only be in baby steps. Group dates only to start with. I will need to know with whom, where, and what. Adult supervision is required in homes and parties and of course not only will a I call but do drive bys at whim (I do that now for sleepovers...I can't stand it when they are away...sigh). My greatest hope is she will have lots of boy friends not boyfriends.


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## Rio Mama (Apr 9, 2006)

A few folks have mentioned group dates. When my sister was in high school, she was very adept at hiding her relationships b/c she always went out with groups of "friends". Sometime during the outing, the group would devolve into couples, leading (I think) to some unfortunate situations for my sister, of which my mom was totally unaware until much later. Just sayin'.


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Take this with a grain of salt because our daughter is only 1







but I was a teenage girl, as was my sister, and I will just let you know what worked with us.

My parents were pretty lenient about dating. We weren't allowed to just jump in a car with a random guy or anything







but we knew all about sex at a young age (age appropriate and gradually of course) ... we knew what most boys *wanted*, and my mom even told us some of the best lines: "don't be a tease" "It will make our love stronger" "it hurts if you stop" "don't you love me" "I have never done this" "I can't help myself when I'm around you" "You make me feel like no one else has ever made me feel so it will be so special" and on down the line.









We were taught that these things didn't neccessarily make these boys jerks, just be prepared for the *lines* and feel confident and okay with saying no, and if someone were to act in a way that made us feel uncomfortable... to call them (my parents) immediately and they would come get us.

My parents had to meet prospective boyfriends and also have their parents' phone number (before cell phones







). We never really went on traditional "dates" -- and usually by the time I was getting in anyone's car, we already knew them pretty well....

My sister and I never had curfews, but we never abused that either -- probably because we knew if there was a special event (concert, late movie) etc, we could call our parents, explain the situation, leave a phone number etc and it would be okay. Many nights we were home by 9pm...some nights as late as 3am --- when it was cool to go to Denny's and drink the bottomless cup of coffee for a dollar and "hang out" with your friends/boyfriend. (I'm chuckling to myself, it seems so silly now haha)

Anyway, long story short, I did have sex at 16 (almost 17) with a longterm boyfriend I dated exclusively until I was 18 (over 2 years). We used protection (both condom and I was on the pill -- because I told my mom I was considering sex and wanted to MAKE SURE I wouldn't get pregnant, so I went to planned parenthood, I didn't have to tell her, but I did because I knew she wouldn't freak)... no pregnancy, no rape, no std's, no emotional trauma...

I think a big part of that was having an open communication, honest expectations on both sides (with my parents and myself), and feeling like I didn't have to do anything I didn't want to do. Also, my parents welcomed my boyfriends into our home without lectures, or evil eyes or third degrees... just like another part of the family.

My parents did suprisingly well in that area for being otherwise really punitive.

ETA: I completely agree with the pp on "group dates". All that means to many teens is that their parents feel better seeing them all leave in a group. It doesn't stay a group for long. Trust me.

Good luck


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

I'll be in this situation in about 5 years or so and I don't know what I'll do yet. I guess it will just depend on the situation at that time, his attitude/maturity level and who the other person is and where they want to go. So basically it will depend on every factor involved.









I remember being 16 and I had already been seeing a guy for two years by that age (started dating at age 14). It was very abnormal that my mother let me date him and go out on dates until 11pm at age 16. I had no idea what a real relationship should consist of and so I ended up dating that loser for 10 years of my life, the best years of my life for dating around, going to college, etc. and I missed out on all of that because of that jerk. My parents could have cared less though. So I plan on doing things quite a bit differently with both of my children. They can date by a certain age as long as we have rules and they follow those rules. I won't let them allow another person to run their lives and cause them to screw up in life and miss out on fun things like I did. I think girls are different because they tend to want to date a lot earlier than boys do, but I don't know.


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## QuestionGal (Feb 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JanisB*
We have ground rules in place for dating.

Dating at 16, no earlier. Group dates only.

Boy/girlfriend can come to our house as long as there are adults present in the home. Same for going to their house. And yes, I do call and verify it.

Curfew is 11 pm. Later for special dates or as needed.

Guys must come to the door to get our dd's. If they can't show common courtesy and respect for our dd's, they don't need to spend time with them. We want to teach our girls that they aren't at a guys beck and call which to us, the honking and cell phone thing implies. Get off your duff, come to the door. Our dd's deserve that sign of respect. Taught the oldest ds the same thing and will teach it to the younger ones.

Always give the kids a cell or some change for a payphone so we can come to get them at any time if they feel uncomfortable or feel they are in over their heads.

Talk to the kids, get to know them before they go out on an actual date. Again, a sign of respect for us and for our kids. It also gives us a gauge on who/what the person is like. Instinct and gut feelings can be very important.

We must have phone numbers of houses they are going to, home phone numbers for the date, what time they will be back, where they are going. And they need to actually be doing something, not just "chilling." I know what "chilling" led to for me back in the day. HAHAHA

It might sound strict, but it is an ugly world out there, and kids are far too precious to just turn loose.

Janis

Former sexually active teenager/ current high school teacher/ not a parent but here's my take:
I agree with MOST of what Janis said. The only thing I don't agree on is the group date idea. I would also emphasize that having an open and trusting relationship with your kids will be your biggest defense. Listen to what she has to say, be open about sex and what guys *really* want. If dad were to chime in that would probably help.

I see WAY too many students wind up pregnant because they were left alone or allowed to do "whatever"/ "chill" by "cool parents." Knowing your daughter, the boy she's chosen to date, her friends, and other parents are going to be your biggest allies. I don't know your take on sex education, but I would also talk and teach her about safe sex (the earlier the better)

All my parents said to me about sex was "I'd like for you to wait until you're at least 16, I can't tell you what to do, it's your decision" so guess how old I was when I had sex.... yup 16!

Teenagers are so full of confusion and the desire to fit in, you HAVE be the foundation and make sure they know they can come to you and you won't "flip out" without LISTENING to them.....

HTH


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## weliveintheforest (Sep 3, 2005)

I am not a parent of a teenager yet, but my experiences are going to have a huge impact on the way I handle my dd dating.

My parents had no interest in meeting my boyfriends, didn't invite them over, and never called their parents. If they had only taken an interest, a lot of what I now consider to be bad things wouldn't have happened. There was lots of unsupervised movie watching ("chilling"), but I don't really think that was the worst thing. Worse were the unsupervised campouts, the late night driving around, lying about where I was and things like that. My Mum never tried to stop me from getting in the car with random people she didn't know and going "out".

I think getting to know the boyfriends (and any friends for that matter), and not being afraid to call to check up are super important.


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## 2much2luv (Jan 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
People who "know" me around here might be suprised to hear that I am not a big fan of young teens dating.


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## 2much2luv (Jan 12, 2003)




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## june'smom (Nov 8, 2003)

My parents never had any rules really. Our curfew was 12 or 1 or 2 or whenever we came home, no consequences. My parents never got to know the guys I was dating (most of whom were real losers or drug dealers).

They just didn't haev any idea what was going on. So I lost my virginity to a jerk at 14, slept with another jerk later that same summer, got an STD from the second jerk, dated one very nice guy for a year, gave him the STD because I didn't even think to get tested (I used condoms both times), then went on to have a bunch of casual sex with guys who were awful.

Until I met dh and started dating him at 18.

I will not let my kids date like I did. I don't think I will let them date at all. (Dh totally disagrees with me, but he only had one other partner and very few bad experiences)

I know first hand all of the trouble I got in while my parents thought I was safe. I lied all the time about who I was with, where we would be, what we were doing. I drank and smoked pot and then drove home. I was awful and stupid and very immature. And I don't think I was that different from a lot of kids. It is a scary world and I am going to protect my kids even if they hate me for it.

Louise


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Dating....my daughter is nearly 16. She doesn't date as such. She just hangs out with her friends and there are always boys calling and she's always interested in one or the other. She is not big into boyfriends and tells me she's not sexually active yet. She is taking birth control pills and carries condoms because I want her to be prepared because things can get out of hand.

What I focus on is keeping her away from drugs and alcohol...I am more scared of that than her sexual activities.

She seems to finally be getting a pretty good handle on her life...still having trouble but school is getting better and she seems a bit more serious.

I let her go out, know where she is, she has no consequences really which really makes her honest with me...she knows I am not going to blow.

She was at a party last weekend hosted by her friends..it got really out of hand with alcohol and she told me all about it and how it really stopped being fun because some jerks showed up.

I knew about the party and called several times during the evening...I told her to let me know if there was trouble which she did..they managed to get the drunks out before it got too serious.

BUT I live in a small town and she hangs out in a small town, I know her friends, her friend's parents and I meet all the guys.

I just decided to trust her...she's nearly 16..I was trustworthy at 16 so whynot her?

But it's been a long road.

I think if they are going to have sex, they will have sex, if they are going to booze, they will find a way...the main thing is to talk talk talk.

It's rescued us a few times.


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## jul511riv (Mar 16, 2006)

Wow. I really want to respond to this one.

Though I am not the parent of a teen, I was a teen *ahem* years ago (fairly recently) and REALLY had a rough go of it regarding the dating scene.

Began when I was 13 and had a married man after me. We didn't do anything more than kiss, but when I told mom privately and crying, my mom patiently explained to me that it was all in my head and that maybe I "wanted him" to be attracted to me and I imagined all of it. Never got to tell her about him PASSIONATELY kissing me...because the moment she said that, our relationship was OVER.

It just went downhill from there. I won't get into the sob story, but ironically she seemed to come down SO MUCH harder on the boys I went to school with than the other "older men" who were coming down on me just as fast and furious, and with far more sophistication.

When I did try to "date" a decent guy, my parents were totally suspect. I remember my boyfriend (at age 16/17) was in the neighborhood (he lived about 40 min away) and didn't have a lot of time. He just drove by to say "hi". Didn't feel comfortable bringing him in the house, as my parents were SOOOO down on him from the get go without EVER speaking to him or giving him a chance. He smoked cigarettes (I didn't, but took the occasional "puff" to either be cool or chill out or both), which my 'rents hated, and accused him of being a major drug addict.

When he came that day, he brought a bottle that looked like beer, but it was some kind of cola. It was one of those energy drink thingy's and we were sharing it. After he left, I came into the house to a "punishment" from my parents for drinking beer. Ironically enough, we had gone into my car to listen to some music while we drank it, so the empty bottle was in the car. Man oh man! I told my parents we weren't drinking beer (though you think they would have come outside instead of just spying on me, but they thought it would be more efficient if they just "sprung" the punishment on me when I walked in the door) I was begging them to come to the car and see the label on the bottle. The refused! They said I planted something there and was lying. It was truly unbelievable!

I have to add here that I was an honor student at school at this time. I was a REALLY GREAT kid. Really. Never did drugs. puffed a few cigarettes after dating a smoker but that was about it. Anyways, I went out of the house (risking more "punishment") to bring in the bottle to prove that is wasn't beer. I don't remember how it ended. I think I was still punished. But the point is: WTF?!?!??!?!?!?

So, your relationship to your daughter should be the MOST important element in all of this. Creating and fostering a healthy environment for her to share with you (and then BELIEVING HER and using THAT as an opportunity to dispense LOVE AND ADVICE) would be my requests.

Be well.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls*
What I focus on is keeping her away from drugs and alcohol...I am more scared of that than her sexual activities.

I think if they are going to have sex, they will have sex, if they are going to booze, they will find a way...the main thing is to talk talk talk.


her having sex is not as risky as using drugs? with AIDS in this day and time?







wow! and I don't agree with you that kids will 'find' a way to have sex. if we treat our kids like they are mature and intelligent then they will make clear, mature decisions while out on their own without us. if they are instructed on how to act in a mature manner and make mature decisions while out with their friends alone then they will make those choices because they know they have parents that truly care about them making their OWN decisions and raised them to think for themselves, not to pull their pants down for every cute guy that gets them horney.







: i'd hate to think I would ever make the choice to put my teenage daughter on BC pills "just in case". ugh! hopefully she'll have more brain cells working than that.

I agree with other posters that the type of relationship you have with your teen is most important. if you are the type of parent (like mine was) that is too strict and demands that they the child nothing and tell them that sex is bad, etc. then most likely they will get in trouble for spite, doing something out of curiosity. I had sex at 14 with my first ever boyfriend because he pushed me to do it IF I loved him (bullsh$t) and I swear i will talk to both of my children about that kind of stuff and how to deal with someone in a relationship long before they are that age where they are in that situation. and if you have the right relationship with your child and they know they can come talk to you about anything and everything without you getting immediately angry then I bet you'll be okay.







I want that type of relationship with my kids.

BUT I'm also not going to put my 13 yr old on birth control and give my son condoms to carry in his wallet that early on just thinking "they might' get in trouble if i don't do that for them. that's bull. my kids are going to be raised (and already are) to know that their body is their's and no one can take that from them. They will be intelligent to know that sex isn't all that makes a relationship. that's obvious what teens think since they are all having it so quickly.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls*
Dating....my daughter is nearly 16. She is taking birth control pills and carries condoms because I want her to be prepared because things can get out of hand.


do you realize that birth control pills have hormones in them that your daughter doesn't need? especially at her age? why tell your child that this is somehow right to take such a thing at her age 'just in case'? I'm sorry but it really bothers me that someone would actually do that. just inform her of what she needs to know and have a close relationship with her. then if she is ready for BC pills she could come to you and ask you about it at that time. you are giving her the idea that it's okay to have the sex if someone she really doesn't want it with pushes her in to it to somehow prove her love for him. she will most likely think oh well I'm on BC pills so i'm safe, so why not. this is her body! that's not right. why do you have any right to choose for her anyway? she's her own person.









what if your daughter does go out and get pregnant by having sex without using protection. that would be her problem and she would have to deal with an unwanted child or disease. i just feel it's wrong for parents to just put the kids on BC pills. it's like your putting her on BC pills and then sitting back and saying "ahhhhh, it's all taken care of." that's crazy IMO! why not tell talk to her constantly about relationships and life and tell her to wait for the right guy and if she thinks she is with that guy then to come to you and talk about birth control options at that point? that seems like the best way to go about it. in the meantime you are just polluting her body with those hormones for no reason. she's a child. why should she be so consumed with thoughts of sex possibly happening at her age when she needs to be worried about grades in school, college in her future, sports, academics, etc.









i was on BC pills from the time I was 15 (got on them myself, thank you) and was on them for a little over 20 years - on and off when i had kids. i went off because of how bad they are for my body. BUT i chose when and if to take them, no one else made that choice for me. maybe if i would have had a caring parent to tell me how bad they are for my body back then i never would have chosen to use them, but i don't know. BUT it was my choice to make when i did make it.


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## Tinas3muskateers (May 19, 2004)

As a mom of a 15 year old who wasnt a teen all that long ago ( only 16 years or so) She has boyfriends. She currently has one but he lives 45 mins away and they see each other all of 4 times a year. PERFECT lol. Seriously though. I do not think it is right of me as a mother to stiffle a friendship with that spark or bubbly feeling in your tummy... I cannot take that away from my daughter and just because she has a boyfriend does not mean she is sexually active. It is totally natural and normal for her to be attracted boys and to want their company. We meet all the boyfriends, we talk to their parents, we know her friends, and basically they all hang together. Dates are normally with a group of them going to hang out at the movies, sports park, or mall. Kayla is very well aware of the fact the only sure way she will not get pregnant or an STD is by not having sex. She knows she was concieved on the pill so it can happen to anyone. She has no desire to have children at this point in her life and dose not believe in abortion so she figures not doing it is the safe route to go. But she is aware that if at anytime she feels she is ready for that next step with a boy we will be getting her the pill and she will be taken condoms along with her. I once told her while she was dating this boy "Kayla if you and Mike ever decide to have sex you and I are getting you the pill, the sponge, the IUD and the shot and I will go to Sam's Club (aka Cosco for those with no sams lol) and get him a life time supply of trojens because I am far far too young to be anyones grandmother and I want you to be alive fora very long time" I always throw comedy in with my serious talks, lightens the mood lol .


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## fierymyst (May 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls*
the main thing is to talk talk talk.









:


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hopeful130*
My daughter turns 16 on Monday. We told her when she turned 16 she could start having the boy over for dinner and such. Anyway, she has a new boyfriend and yesterday she wanted to go "chill" with him for the afternoon. Well, I told her she'd have to "chill" here and she said that was just so "uncool".

You asked what was too protective. I think what you said above is too protective. She couldn't invite a boy over for dinner AT YOUR HOUSE when she was 12 or 14? Why not? I cannot imagine the problem there. Did you let her invite friends who were girls over for dinner? You are all at a table eating - why not before age 16 if the friend is a boy?

I also don't think that you can police her 24/7. So I'd go with trusting her. Unless she has given you some reason not to. She is 16. She wanted to go "chill" (we used to call it "hanging out") with her boyfriend for the afternoon. Where? Walk downtown and sit by the river? Go to the mall? Would you let her do that by herself or with a girl friend?

I had almost no dating rules (well, not true - my parents died when I was in junior high and our uncle/aunt/cousins moved in with us - he had two rules for me: 1) don't get killed, and 2) don't get pregnant. I managed to follow those rules.







) Anyway, a close friend of mine had very strict parents. They basically assumed that she would take off her pants for any guy who asked, and treated her as such. Really gave off a "we don't trust you to make good choices" vibe. Her mom had to get married as a pregnant teen so I think this is where it stemmed from but regardless! So this friend, who was policed night and day, had many rules about what she couldn't do, was sent to church camp each summer, etc. did more that would freak parents out than any of the rest of us. She was as much as accused of doing it anyway - so she might just as well be doing it.

I think trusting kids - and knowing they value themselves and can stick up for themselves - will yield better results than a lot of restrictive rules.

Also, I don't know exactly what parents think they are preventing when they have early curfews - it is just as easy to have sex during the day as it is at night! I had friends who usually had sex at their house or the boyfriend's house - between 3:00 and 5:30 (school got out and parents home from work).

Some boys will pressure her for sex, and some won't. She has to be able to make her own decisions and stand behind them. She also needs to feel she can take care of herself.

When I was 14, 15, 16, I would go swim at the river, or head to the mall, or just walk around town - with a group of friends, or just a girl friend, or just a boyfriend. I can't imagine how awful it would have felt not be trusted to "chill" on a summer day - regardless of whom I chose to chill with! I completely agree with meeting the boy, having him come in to pick your dd up before they leave, knowing his parents, etc. But forbidding her to go out in public with him? I don't understand why...


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## jennifermama (Jun 4, 2006)

How do we know our kids aren't conning us? My parents were very permissive, but partly because they thought I was so honest and responsible. I was a straight A student, involved in "good" school activities, went to church, and helped around the house. But at ice skating lessons I made out with my boyfriend in the bleachers or nearby field. After the church fellowship group on Sunday evenings we all drove down to the beach and drank, smoked pot and made out (after coupling off). I shudder to think what kinds of things could have happened. I started dating a geeky looking straight A student when I was 13. My parents thought he was perfect. He was just as interested in sex as the guys in leather. Thankfully I survived, but my parents had no idea. They were sure they had a good, close relationship with me. My son is only 8 and is very honest, but I can't help but think that if I forbade him to date his teenage crush he would surely know exactly how to manipulate his way into the opportunity. I think we have to really focus on instilling the right values now so they make the best choices later. I think when our kids are teens, to some extent, we have to let go of control. Hope Im not giving anyone nightmares







:


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## fierymyst (May 27, 2006)

In a lot of ways, I feel this is all part of growing up, a little sneaking around, a little making out, a little drinking, etc...

Do I want it to happen? NO!! but I also know most likely it will happen and I am prepared to accept it but I hope that I can be there to listen open minded to my children when they tell me and hopefully I am creating the environment now that will make them feel they can tell me some of that. I also hope to put some morals in them that while they may sneak and make out under the bleachers, they will have that little voice saying not to go all the way, while they may take a drink they will have that little voice saying I can't ride with someone who has been drinking, etc....

I am not saying I allow this but I live in a world of reality and too many rules isn't good and too few rules isn't good, its the happy medium that is going to hopefully work (but not necessarily). I take each day as a learning experience!


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## helen_emily (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennifermama*
I think when our kids are teens, to some extent, we have to let go of control.

I second what Jennifermama said.

As a 20-year old with no children, I think the most important thing is for your daughter to feel like she can trust you. If her relationship with you isn't good, how can she have a positive relationship with anyone else?

I have never been close to my mother, and since I started dating (at 15) I have been continually decietful to hide the fact that I had boyfriends.
My mother was very strict on this (NO dating in school, NO sex till after uni), and it completely backfired.

The only thing she did right was talk to me openly, and fairly early, about contraceptives and my choices. Possibly because of this, I take responsibility for my sexuality and my sexual health. I know I am not ready to become a parent myself so I even use hormonal contraceptives (which I am theoretically opposed to). I wish my mother would support me in this instead of using it as another reason to yell at me.

So:
Answer her questions honestly and openly.
Ask her questions back, and if she confides in you (I hope she will), don't judge what she says. Try to put it in context. If you disagree or it alarms you, at least count to 10 before reacting.
Tell her your views, but let her form her own opinions. Just because you have been there done that, doesn't mean that she won't want to try it for herself.
Most importantly, trust her unless she proves you wrong.
If you act as though you don't (checking up on her all the time, accusing or going behind her back), then why should she live up to your expectations or reward you by being trustworthy?

I suggest that instead of "chilling" (which actually means making out some place) you suggest a movie or some other public activity.

Hope my long involved comment helps in SOME way


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## Tinas3muskateers (May 19, 2004)

I suggest that instead of "chilling" (which actually means making out some place) you suggest a movie or some other public activity.

Chilling means making out? Not here lol. It means what it is chilling. My latest delema is my dd hanging out with groups of guys. I am aware that guys are people too and that she can have guy friends. But why do I get so uptight that she is hanging with 2 or 3 guys at the mall and not 2 or 3 girls? I do not want to be sexist and say "oh they are boys you cant hang with them"

I did not sign up for a teenager! Can I have my little girl back please?


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## DavinaT (Jun 28, 2005)

I agree with what Helen Emily said ona lot of points. If you put your foot down on a 'No dating until you are 16' policy, I think you realy are fooling yourself and unless you have a very complaint child it WILL backfire - garaunteed.
You cannot be with your teen 24x7 and it wouldn't be healthy if you were.
The key is keep OPEN the paths communication. listen listen listen listen. And trust.
Otherwise they will sneak around. I did it to date at 15, so did most of my peer group.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Dating for me consisted of getting to go to Homecoming and Prom. That was it. No dating until I was an adult and on my own.

In hindsight, I am happy my parents made that rule, as dating was then a social construct and NOT about sex.
No boys allowed over and I was not allowed to go to their house, either.

With that rule in place, all my attention was on academics and sports, boys never entered the picture.

It was 'nice' too, in that when boys asked me out, my parents said it was fine to "blame" them, so I could just say, "My parents do not allow me to date."


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tinas3muskateers*
My latest delema is my dd hanging out with groups of guys. I am aware that guys are people too and that she can have guy friends. But why do I get so uptight that she is hanging with 2 or 3 guys at the mall and not 2 or 3 girls? I do not want to be sexist and say "oh they are boys you cant hang with them"

This reminds me of being in jr. high and high school myself. Another girl friend and I hung out in a group with six or seven guys. We spent most days during the summers with them. Swimming in the river, hiking, taking the bus to a larger neighboring town, "chilling" at the house of two of the boys. 90% of the time there wasn't adult supervision (pretty much only when we were at S and M's house; their parents were often around). Some of my friends' parents (whose kids weren't in our group) thought that the other girl and I were just so.... I don't know what - to be hanging out with a big group of boys.

You know what? THEIR daughters were drinking and smoking and having sex. WE were taking picnic lunches (of sandwiches and Cokes) and boom boxes down to the river or up the hill for a hike. There was NEVER any smoking or drinking - and though there were some crushes amongst certain members of the group, there was very little happening that would have bothered parents if they'd known. AND there was so much respect and protectiveness - it really was the safest environment I was in as a teenager.

I know it SEEMS odd for your dd to hang out with boys - but I'd be totally fine with it if the boys are nice. If your dd is choosing to hang out with them, I'd guess they are.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

My son is only 8 and is very honest, but I can't help but think that if I forbade him to date his teenage crush he would surely know exactly how to manipulate his way into the opportunity. I think we have to really focus on instilling the right values now so they make the best choices later. I think when our kids are teens, to some extent, we have to let go of control.
I really agree with this.

My parents did have all kinds of draconian rules about dating and it was made clear that they didn't trust me. All it did was make me resentful and make me try harder to figure out ways to deceive them. My daughter will indeed be allowed to date, starting before 16. (I'd say 14, but I might allow boy-girl contact earlier, too. I mean, really, I expect them to have different-gender friends.) There will be rules and expectations, but there will not be this, IMO, unrealistic attitude that they are not mature enough to love or be sexual in any way till they are out of my house. How can I expect my child to cope sensibly with dating and sexuality in college or the "real world" if I have kept her on a 3-foot no-dating leash till the second she steps out my door? I mean, I know some people would like their children to remain untouched and undated till they magically meet the spouse of their dreams at age 25 and marry as virgins, but that is iffy at best. I'd rather she entered the world of romantic relationships with us there by her side to talk about it with her.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tinas3muskateers*
I suggest that instead of "chilling" (which actually means making out some place) you suggest a movie or some other public activity.









I got kicked out of a movie for making out, and frequently just "chilled" (although we didn't call it that) with male friends.

I have no idea what the right rules are for the OP. I don't know her or her daughter. I do know that the only friend I had whose parents had hard and fast "no dating until such-and-such age" was also the first one of us to be sexually active...and the only one who cut class for sex.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Another mother w/out a teen but was somewhat recently a teen

My parents were strict, I was mostly raised by my dad until 15 no one had the talks with me, so it is important to have talks, tell your daughter about relationships and what good men want from women, I didn't realize that good men/boys would want a female that wasn't so easy, so to say, I thought that by making my body available that would make me desirable as if other girls were not so that mad me a rare commodity.

Definately make sure that the boy is willing to speak to you in a human way, the guys that wont come to the door and just honk are punks, usually not good respectable mates, but sometimes they are wrapped around trying to be the cool guy but follow your instincts.

Make sure your daughter is involved in extracurricular activities, he never supported any interest until I was interested in guitar lessons, his hobby when he was younger... I asked/mentioned several interests but after giving up on guitar lessons he never supported any other interests.
My boredom in afterschool life led to parents' worse nightmare, sex and drugs, I never was a bad drug user but it was an activity that provided enjoyment and a group of friends with an activity in common. If there was an extracurricular activity I was involved in I imagine I would have befriended people that would do things more acceptable, at least my efforts could have been used towards something besides figuring out how to get weed and to my way to old for me boyfriend of the time.

Don't be too protective b/c if she is stubborn she will find a way, sneaking out, skipping school, lying about where she is going and that is a recipe for disaster if something was to go wrong you wouldn't have a clue where she was or who she was with. These are all things I did b/c of overprotectiveness and being around the bad crowds.

One poster put that dating is bad b/c it ultimately leads to sex, most the time, yep eventually the teen couple is going to have sex, but ask yourself this: Would you prefer it to be with a monogomous relationship that is a real relationship or with a boy that she sees when she is able to get away from the very protective arms of her parents and more then likely not a real relationship thus not monogomous. I hate to think of my daughter feeling these feelings but if the need/curiosity is there to have sex, to have that type of attention, then short of chaining her to her room and her never leaving your sight, not much will stop her.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68*
and I don't agree with you that kids will 'find' a way to have sex. if we treat our kids like they are mature and intelligent then they will make clear, mature decisions while out on their own without us.

I think she was saying that if a teenager really has decided that he/she is ready for sex and wants to have sex, they will do so whether a parent says "You can't do that" or not. I agree. I agree that discussion is so very important. However it doesn't mean that they will _always_ make responsible decisions _every_ time. No one does that after all. That is why it's so important that a teen knows he/she can go to a parent for help and advice without fear or punishment.

Quote:

if they are instructed on how to act in a mature manner and make mature decisions while out with their friends alone then they will make those choices because they know they have parents that truly care about them making their OWN decisions and raised them to think for themselves, not to pull their pants down for every cute guy that gets them horney.







:
 It surely does help to guide them in good decision making, and I fully agree with teens making decisions for themselves with guidance and advice from parents. I don't think any parent wants their daughter to "pull their pants down for every cute guy".

Quote:

i'd hate to think I would ever make the choice to put my teenage daughter on BC pills "just in case". ugh! hopefully she'll have more brain cells working than that.
 Well implying that teens on birth control pills do not have "working brain cells" isn't really all that productive.

Quote:

and if you have the right relationship with your child and they know they can come talk to you about anything and everything without you getting immediately angry then I bet you'll be okay.







I want that type of relationship with my kids.
 I agree! I do have that kind of relationship with my kids, and it's so important to me.









Quote:

BUT I'm also not going to put my 13 yr old on birth control and give my son condoms to carry in his wallet that early on just thinking "they might' get in trouble if i don't do that for them. that's bull. my kids are going to be raised (and already are) to know that their body is their's and no one can take that from them. They will be intelligent to know that sex isn't all that makes a relationship. that's obvious what teens think since they are all having it so quickly.
 Well many parents decide with their teens that having access to birth control methods is very important. Even if they fully know that, as you said, their body belongs to them and that sex isn't all there is to a relationship, they still might decide to have sex. And if they do many parents, myself included, would rather them be protected than not. Making a responsible, thoughtful decision to have sex does not make a person unintelligent.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68*
you are giving her the idea that it's okay to have the sex if someone she really doesn't want it with pushes her in to it to somehow prove her love for him. she will most likely think oh well I'm on BC pills so i'm safe, so why not. this is her body! that's not right. why do you have any right to choose for her anyway? she's her own person.









You might want to watch it with that eye rolling smiley. It can really lend an unkind tone to a post that has a possibility of being emotionally charged anyway. Just a thought. You don't really know what kind of discussion this mom and her teen had regarding starting birth control pills. You also do not know that she will think "Im on BC pills so I am safe." These are assumptions. I may have missed it, but did the mom say she had decided on or forced her daughter to take the BC pills against her will? Perhaps the daughter was very in on the process and decision. Birth control need not cause anyone to abandon common sense and thought processes regarding to have sex or not.

Quote:

what if your daughter does go out and get pregnant by having sex without using protection. that would be her problem and she would have to deal with an unwanted child or disease.
 (Well she is on BC pills, so while that is not fool proof at least there is an attempt at protecting oneself from pregnancy.) For some families it would not just be the girl's "problem" to deal with alone. My mother suported me as a teen mom, and I was thankful for it. I don't think this mom would just abandon her daughter to deal with an "unwanted child" or an STD if one should (and I hope not) occur.

Quote:

i just feel it's wrong for parents to just put the kids on BC pills. it's like your putting her on BC pills and then sitting back and saying "ahhhhh, it's all taken care of." that's crazy IMO! why not tell talk to her constantly about relationships and life and tell her to wait for the right guy and if she thinks she is with that guy then to come to you and talk about birth control options at that point? that seems like the best way to go about it.
Again you do not really know what the mom is thinking regarding her daughter being on BC pills. You do not know what her internal thought process was. Perhaps she did and continues to talk to her about life and men and relationships.

Quote:

in the meantime you are just polluting her body with those hormones for no reason. she's a child. why should she be so consumed with thoughts of sex possibly happening at her age when she needs to be worried about grades in school, college in her future, sports, academics, etc.








 I too have concerns about hormones and such with regard to BC pills. But for many families it is a valid choice when it comes to a teen and sexuality. Being on the pill does not = consumed with thoughts of sex. Realistically we all know that teenage sex happens, alot, and it happens often along side sports, school, and the rest of life.


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## kaylee18 (Dec 25, 2005)

Lots of parents appear to be putting their daughters on the Pill, or encouraging them to get on it.

Why is it so very rare to hear of a daughter being taught to chart her fertility pattern? As in, Taking Charge of Your Fertility?

I've been charting since I was a teeenager, since before I ever had sex, and never had an issue with knowing when I was fertile or deciding what to do (or not do) because of that. It is wonderful now, at 25, getting ready for conception, to have confidence that I am healthy with a good luteal phase and a regular ovulation pattern, to know exactly *when* conception is likely to happen (to the extent that we can even try for a certain gender if we want!), and to have the peace of mind that my body has never had hormonal interference.

Fertility awareness is also a more forgiving method than taking the Pill, since forgetting a day of the Pill is a great way to trigger ovulation, with pregnancy going from a statistical improbability to a near certainty; while forgetting a day of charting means you draw a dashed line, _think_ about what the temps mean again, and remember not to have sex until you have more information on your cycle. Without the side effects that the Pill has. At about the same level of daily hassle. And with plenty of options for timing and combining methods to make sex safer (such as only having sex during the time period that is both after ovulation and before menses, with a condom).

I don't get why the Pill is so popular







. I think knowing my body is a million times better than "turning it off."


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

Why is it so very rare to hear of a daughter being taught to chart her fertility pattern?
Well...I can think of reasons. I can imagine a teen girl who charts being likely to "fudge" it in terms of when sex would be safe to have. ("I'm probably okay. Yeah, pretty much.") I mean, I know several adult women who have gotten PG while charting to avoid because they were a little too optimistic/risky. Also, charting can be tricky and hard to interpret at times. It's a lot to keep track of for a busy teen.

I certainly won't keep the information from my teen about how her fertility cycles (it's crazy how many women are clueless about this!) but I would not encourage her to use charting as a primary BC method, honestly. The pill certainly does have risks if one forgets to take it, but I think it's easier for a teen to be successful with "take one pill once a day" than "Make sure you wake up at about the same time every day; if not, adjust your temps; don't forget to discard temps if you have a fever; enter your temps on this chart; be aware of your cervical mucus; analyze it all...and..."

In any case, I would expect my teen to be using condoms every time anyway to protect against STDs. So what would be the point of charting--would I tell her not to have sex at all during fertile periods? The pill provides a back-up contraception if the condom fails, but charting does not unless you abstain during fertile times...


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kaylee18*
I don't get why the Pill is so popular







. I think knowing my body is a million times better than "turning it off."

And I can't imagine being willing to give up sex during the only part of the month that I'm interested in it. To each her own.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
In any case, I would expect my teen to be using condoms every time anyway to protect against STDs. So what would be the point of charting...

So that she has the knowledge of how her body works. My mother never put any of us on BC, but she did teach ALL of us how to chart. Not only did we use condoms, but also avoided sex when a broken condom might cause pg.
Only our youngest sister became a Teen mom, but she and her partner wanted their children and planned them. After their second was born and their father was 18, he got a vasectomy.
Very few adults are ever that responsible.

Why would you NOT teach your daughter how her body works?


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

Why would you NOT teach your daughter how her body works?










I never said I wouldn't teach it to her. Read my post again...

Quote:

I certainly won't keep the information from my teen about how her fertility cycles (it's crazy how many women are clueless about this!)
I said I wouldn't encourage her to use it as a primary method of BC.


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## One Art (Nov 9, 2005)

I came into this discussion out of random interest as I am nowhere close to the dilemma of dating yet... but I am a young mama, so those days weren't so far off for me, and the way my parents approached it was VERY different than most, and probably something I won't be able to do when my time comes.... anyway, they basically had no restrictions, or curfews for that matter... and this was because they had absolute trust in me, a trust I never broke... I am not sure why I didn't experiment with drugs and why I just didn't want to be so young and have sex.... I am guessing that it was just good information and good parenting on my parent's part that led me to make good decisions on my own. They even let me, at 15, take an overnight backpacking trip with my boyfriend. And, for the record, I did not have sex. So their trust was well-founded, and in turn I trusted them, which I think minimized the conflict (though of course there was enough of that, as there is bound to be between teenagers and their parents). With my sister though, they knew she was a little more "wild" and didn't give her as much free reign as they gave me.... this pissed her off of course, but at 15 she began dating someone 8 years older, and they wouldn't trust her at all... she wanted to go on an overnight camping trip and they wouldn't let her, and you can bet that they checked up about this guy all over town.... but luckily, my sister also has a good head on her shoulders, she and this guy are still together, almost 8 years later. Anyway, I think there needs to be a certain amount of trust granted, but that depends on where your relationship is to begin with. If your dd hides things or sneaks around then it is a whole different situation. And of course, kids do make bad judgements, and terrible things can happen as a result. But I wanted to share my, very different, experience.


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## kaylee18 (Dec 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
Well...I can think of reasons. I can imagine a teen girl who charts being likely to "fudge" it in terms of when sex would be safe to have. ("I'm probably okay. Yeah, pretty much.") I mean, I know several adult women who have gotten PG while charting to avoid because they were a little too optimistic/risky.

Those who are "a little too optimistic/risky" are likely not to use _any_ contraceptive method carefully enough. Also, I think mostly those people who are charting and "fudge" to have unprotected sex at fertile times are at a point in their lives where a baby wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal as it is to most teenagers.

Quote:

Also, charting can be tricky and hard to interpret at times. It's a lot to keep track of for a busy teen.
It wasn't hard for me when I was a busy teen. I really don't think it's any harder than any other contraceptive method.
On the other hand, I know three people personally who got pregnant while on the Pill because it was too hard to remember whether they took it _that day_ (not having a visual record), and one other person who got pregnant because other medication interefered with it. BTW, one of those four people has a son with hypospadias, a penile malformation made more likely by exposure to the Pill in utero (the mom discovered the pregnancy at 4 months and was taking the Pill up to that point).

Quote:

I certainly won't keep the information from my teen about how her fertility cycles (it's crazy how many women are clueless about this!) but I would not encourage her to use charting as a primary BC method, honestly.
I would definitely encourage the use of charting as a primary contraceptive method, since there are secondary and tertiary methods to use along with it. I wouldn't encourage anyone who absolutely doesn't want to get pregnant to use fewer than _two_ contraceptive methods for all instances of sex.

Quote:

The pill certainly does have risks if one forgets to take it, but I think it's easier for a teen to be successful with "take one pill once a day" than "Make sure you wake up at about the same time every day; if not, adjust your temps; don't forget to discard temps if you have a fever; enter your temps on this chart; be aware of your cervical mucus; analyze it all...and..."
It's not as simple as "take one pill once a day." It's, "take the right pill" (since, if you take them out of sequence, you're SOL); "remember not to take any other medications or herbal supplements or teas without considering their interactions with the Pill;" "remember for sure whether you actually took one today and yesterday;" "take each pill at the same time each day;" etc.

For charting, you don't have to get up at the same time each day, either. When my alarm goes off at 6, I take my temp with the digital thermometer, then go back to sleep and take the reading off the thermometer (which saves the last temp, as all good $8 thermometers do) at my leisure whenever I manage to get up. No adjustment of temps, no sleep deprivation.

Furthermore, it is not difficult to be aware of fevers and cervical fluids, or to chart temps. I've seen aid workers training malnourished, uneducated, impoverished women in developing countries to interpret their cervical fluid. I think our well-fed, literate, privileged teens are more than capable of understanding it.

Quote:

In any case, I would expect my teen to be using condoms every time anyway to protect against STDs. So what would be the point of charting--would I tell her not to have sex at all during fertile periods? The pill provides a back-up contraception if the condom fails, but charting does not unless you abstain during fertile times...
Actually, there are several options for using charting as condom backup. Abstinence during the fertile period is one method, but so is using two other forms of contraception during fertile times. Such as a condom and a diaphragm with spermicide. Or a condom and a cervical cap. Or a condom and the Sponge with spermicide (if the Sponge is actually available). Or a condom and VCF (the most risky of these; I wouldn't recommend it, but it's still safer than just a condom). That way, you pinpoint the times to be extra careful.

I'm not saying a teen who wants to absolutely avoid pregnancy should use charting (presumably with planned abstinence) as the sole method of contraception. But _half_ of America's unplanned conceptions happen without any contraceptive method in place whatsoever, and the vast majority of the rest occur without a backup contraceptive. Our teens can do better than that, and we can show them how.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kaylee18*
Those who are "a little too optimistic/risky" are likely not to use _any_ contraceptive method carefully enough. Also, I think mostly those people who are charting and "fudge" to have unprotected sex at fertile times are at a point in their lives where a baby wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal as it is to most teenagers.

It wasn't hard for me when I was a busy teen. I really don't think it's any harder than any other contraceptive method.
On the other hand, I know three people personally who got pregnant while on the Pill because it was too hard to remember whether they took it _that day_ (not having a visual record), and one other person who got pregnant because other medication interefered with it. BTW, one of those four people has a son with hypospadias, a penile malformation made more likely by exposure to the Pill in utero (the mom discovered the pregnancy at 4 months and was taking the Pill up to that point).

I would definitely encourage the use of charting as a primary contraceptive method, since there are secondary and tertiary methods to use along with it. I wouldn't encourage anyone who absolutely doesn't want to get pregnant to use fewer than _two_ contraceptive methods for all instances of sex.

It's not as simple as "take one pill once a day." It's, "take the right pill" (since, if you take them out of sequence, you're SOL); "remember not to take any other medications or herbal supplements or teas without considering their interactions with the Pill;" "remember for sure whether you actually took one today and yesterday;" "take each pill at the same time each day;" etc.

For charting, you don't have to get up at the same time each day, either. When my alarm goes off at 6, I take my temp with the digital thermometer, then go back to sleep and take the reading off the thermometer (which saves the last temp, as all good $8 thermometers do) at my leisure whenever I manage to get up. No adjustment of temps, no sleep deprivation.

Furthermore, it is not difficult to be aware of fevers and cervical fluids, or to chart temps. I've seen aid workers training malnourished, uneducated, impoverished women in developing countries to interpret their cervical fluid. I think our well-fed, literate, privileged teens are more than capable of understanding it.

Actually, there are several options for using charting as condom backup. Abstinence during the fertile period is one method, but so is using two other forms of contraception during fertile times. Such as a condom and a diaphragm with spermicide. Or a condom and a cervical cap. Or a condom and the Sponge with spermicide (if the Sponge is actually available). Or a condom and VCF (the most risky of these; I wouldn't recommend it, but it's still safer than just a condom). That way, you pinpoint the times to be extra careful.

I'm not saying a teen who wants to absolutely avoid pregnancy should use charting (presumably with planned abstinence) as the sole method of contraception. But _half_ of America's unplanned conceptions happen without any contraceptive method in place whatsoever, and the vast majority of the rest occur without a backup contraceptive. Our teens can do better than that, and we can show them how.









Thank you for writing what I could not.







All that you wrote is so true!


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

I know three people personally who got pregnant while on the Pill because it was too hard to remember whether they took it that day (not having a visual record)
Huh? There is absolutely a visual record. It's very easy to tell if you missed a pill due to the design of the pill "compact," which has a day of the week on it above each pill. This is why I always rememberd to take my BC pill but still sometimes can't remember if I took my thyroid replacement pill....It is also not at all hard to take them in the correct sequence, because, as I said, it is all designed so you can see what pill to take on what day. It's not like you just get a bottle of random pills!

Also, unless you are on one of the minipills, I don't believe it is crucial to take the pill at the exact same time every day. "Before you go to bed" (or something like that) is okay for most, I do believe. If you miss one, with most pills, you take it as soon as you remember, and unless it is the minipill the risk of pregnancy is still quite low.

I would not have a teen take the minipill; I wouldn't take it myself, as I think it is too easy to mess up.

Quote:

For charting, you don't have to get up at the same time each day, either. When my alarm goes off at 6
True, you don't have to GET up, but you have to WAKE up. How many teens do you know who want to set their alarms for 6 am on the weekend?

I personally find the demands of temping too much for me at present with my erratic sleep patterns (toddler still not STTN). I am sure the same would be true for many teens.

Quote:

I wouldn't encourage anyone who absolutely doesn't want to get pregnant to use fewer than two contraceptive methods for all instances of sex.
I agree with this, of course, and it is for this reason that I used the pill and condoms when I absolutely did not want to get pregnant. Later, when it was less crucial, we just went to condoms, and later, when it was less crucial still, we went to charting.

I am not anti-charting at all (I love charting! Charting got me my daugter!), and I will introduce my daughter to fertility awareness. I just think it is a BC method that requires a lot of its user. I'm sure *some* teens are responsible enough to use charting for BC, but I do believe taking the pill is an easier, more reliable method for most. There is just a much steeper learning curve for charting and it requires a lot of commitment, IMO. I mean, you really need to read at least several chapters of a book to learn to chart, and not every chart is easy to interpret (or there wouldn't be hundreds of messages on messageboards asking for help with them!)


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
True, you don't have to GET up, but you have to WAKE up. How many teens do you know who want to set their alarms for 6 am on the weekend?

I did, as did all of my siblings. Also, you don't need to always use temp, just know your cycle and change in cervical fluid.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
I am sure the same would be true for many teens.

You have gotten posts from at least two who said it was easier and safer than chemical BC.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
There is just a much steeper learning curve for charting and it requires a lot of commitment, IMO. I mean, you really need to read at least several chapters of a book to learn to chart, and not every chart is easy to interpret

That is not true. Teenagers/women are way more intelligent than you are giving them credit for.

My story: I believed ppl like you who said I wasn't smart enough and had to use BC. SO, I quit charting and got on The Pill. Voila! Unplanned pg with my Sami.
Went back and same thing, was told charting is unsafe, got the Depo Shot. Voila! Unplanned pg with my last baby.
Now I have two daughters when I had no money to care for them and it has been frikkin' hard.

For me, I went back to charting and using condoms/abstaining, and so far, no unplanned pregnancies!


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## mamaxon (Jun 25, 2006)

I think dating is a prerequisite to marriage. We are very strict about our 16 year old dating. We have very strong religious views about dating in our home. Our son has to tell us what girls are of his special interest if they start calling. He can only go out on a date if we drive him there and pick him up after. Then there is not alot of time for making out or whatever, and no convienence of a car to do it in. Our prayer is that our teens will live pure until marriage. I don't think you are being overprotective. If you don't protect your children who will???????


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaxon*
I think dating is a prerequisite to marriage. We are very strict about our 16 year old dating. We have very strong religious views about dating in our home.

My children's health, well-being, and happiness is more important than their ability to make a commitment to another human being for the rest of their lives. Even married couples get STD's and unplanned pregnancies.


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## DavinaT (Jun 28, 2005)

Hi Kaylee,18 - In a very interested in your post re: fertility charting. You would be amazed (or maybe not) at the number of teens and indeed adult women who believe that it is safe any time that is not 5 days either side of predicted ovulaton and that you are truely safe if you have sex during your period as there is 0 chance of conception then.
A mute point for me as I went on BC at 17 but I think for the vast majority of teens here, fertility charting, as a primary method off BC would be a major hassle and a worry (have they got it right) that they don't need. Besides, can you really see a hormone charged teen abstaining and waiting a week until the fertile time has passed.
hECK, I wouldn't ant to abtain for half that time and it's while since I've been a teen









Interesting point about fertility charting enabling you to try for a specific gender. The predominant belief among medical circles here is that the gender of the baby is decided by the male (sperm) side rather than the time of ovulation.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

I'm not a parent of a teenager yet, but I'm the youth group leader at my church so I spend a lot of time with teens.

I remember my mom WANTING my sister to date more in high school, because she wanted her to be able to try it out and see what dating is like while still living at home with a good support system and parents there looking out for her - instead of not being allowed to date until she left home for college and then being "on her own." Just something to think about.

I started "dating" when I was 14. The guy I dated for the next 2.5 years was a few years older than me and looking back I think my parents handled it very well. He was allowed to come over to our house for dinner and a movie a couple days a week, and after we'd been dating for about a year we were allowed to ocasionally go out on real dates. Did we fool around? Yes. Did I have sex? NO! I waited till I was married to have sex. By the way, the guy I dated through most of high school and I did break up, but we had an amazing relationship and are still friends now, 10 years after breaking up. High school dating isn't always a dangerous thing - it really depends on the teenagers involved and their maturity levels.

Its been interesting to read all these responses!

The only other thing I'll share: I've used the pill for birth control, and I've used FAM for ttc and avoiding. Honestly, I prefer FAM, but the Pill is WAY easier. My mom told me when I was leaving for college that she'd be happy to take me to the doctor to get a script for the pill, and though I didn't take her up on the offer it meant a lot to me that she did offer. It made her about 1000 times more approachable, I knew she wouldn't judge me. I've offered to take kids in my youth group to Planned Parenthood. This is what it comes down to: I don't think its a great situation for teens to be sexually active, but I think its a much worse situation for teens to be pregnant and/or infected with an STD and I'm going to do whatever I can to help them avoid it. Also, for FAM to be a truly reliable and usable method, you need the cooperation and understanding of your partner, and I just can't imagine trusting a horny 16 year old boy to be into FAM.

(PS- I'm really not entering into a debate here, so I won't be back to check responses. Just wanted to share a perspective.)


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## abbylotus (Dec 29, 2003)

OMG!!!







: My DD is only 2yo and I am all ready sweating at the thought of her dating!!









I plan on being quite intrusive and nosey when it comes to her socializing in her teenage years. My mother knew nothing, nor cared it seemed, to whom I was seeing or "doing" for that matter. I was going to frat parties at 16 and staying out all night. I was also lying of course to my mother but she never checked my tracks. I was driving home high and drunk in her car. AHHHHHHHH!!!!!







:

God help me.....help all of us Mamas with daughters!!!


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## Valerie.Qc (Nov 19, 2001)

Hum, lots of ideas here!









I just had a long conversation today with my teen DD (15yo) after she told me she now has a boyfriend.









We had already talked about sexuality and how it's important to wait until we feel we are ready before having sex, how to protect oneself, etc. but this conversation was different because today she's in love, because she expressed herself with a new maturity that was not there yesterday, because sexuality is not an abstract concept of the futur but something she hope to share with her lover WHEN and only WHEN she will be ready and she wanted to review those items on the *checklist* to determine that one is ready or not for sex.

I appreciate that we could talk openly about it (we have had issues about communication before so I was anxious about that).

I already know the boy: he his dd's friend's brother but we will invite him soon for a more *formal* presentation. I intend to have at least one good conversation with both of them. (dd knows about this and agrees)

DD will be in her own appartment in a year... I can't shelter her. I can give informations and tools, share/model values, but she need to learn to make her own choices and to take responsibility for herself while we still are right there with her to gently guide her.

Don't know if this is clear... it's late and I'm sleepdeprived...


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Valérie.Qc*
DD will be in her own appartment in a year... I can't shelter her. I can give informations and tools, share/model values, but she need to learn to make her own choices and to take responsibility for herself while we still are right there with her to gently guide her.

how can a 15 y o be moving in to their own apartment in a year?? that seems very young to me and like she is basically being set up to act as an adult at a very young age.







I have neices and nephews between the ages of 13-24 and it scares me to think that they would have been put out so young.

Ofcourse you are right in saying they will have sex when they are ready. It's best to give them the education they need on sex and how to keep themselves safe from pregnancy and diseases. BUT sex isn't all that adults are doing. They are making a living, going to college, becoming responsible inviduals in many ways, not just having wild sex every day.







Are you teaching your child this stuff too?

In our family there is a new baby expected in a few months by a 17 yr old neice in my husband's family. His other two nieces, ages 21 and 23 already have little ones and also had them very young. They got pregnant within the first year of moving out of their parents homes.







It's sad IMO, but I guess they were told to grow up faster than they were ready to. Now they regret having babies so young but they can't change it now. They have humans they are responsible for many years to come. I feel sorry for them.

I hope I can do better with my kids than my siblings and DH's siblings have done..... rather than just telling them what sex is like, what to avoid, how to be safe and pushing them out of my home one day expecting them to make the right choices.







Hell, I didn't even know how to make the right choices in a relationship until I was in my late 20's and even then I was still stupid in some areas. I'm lucky I didn't have an unwanted baby long before I did.

I just feel sorry for teens these days. I saw a special on this on t.v. the other day on how they are growing up way too fast now. They are already expected to grow up TOO fast by the media through mtv, sexual music, internet, cell phones, etc. Why are parents also pushing their kids to be adults so young. It's soooo sad. I guess some parents just don't get it. It's not a rite for a 15 yr old child to have their independence and ability to make their own choices. They aren't adults until they are 18 in my house and even then they will be limited as far as what they do if they are living under my roof.







I will raise them to be responsible and know that sex isn't all that makes a relatoinship and they can make a life for themselves without depending on people of the opposite sex taking care of them. They will be independent in their thinking hopefully by 18 years of age and not 'de'pendent on the opposite sex.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaInTheBoonies*
My children's health, well-being, and happiness is more important than their ability to make a commitment to another human being for the rest of their lives. Even married couples get STD's and unplanned pregnancies.

why not teach them about everything else that goes in to a relationship. we all know as adults that the sex isn't everything. sure it can be a good part, but without everything else falling in to place in a relationship it won't last solely on good sex.







so essentially by allowing our young teens to get educated by us on sex and just allowing them to make the choice to have loose sexual relationships with whoever and not teaching them about the real way a relatoinship works, then we are pushing them out there to waste their bodies on just anyone they can find. then that leads to our children going from partner to partner at an even younger age. why do that as adults who know better? we've all been there already, why allow our kids to get there at even younger ages? why aren't parents teaching children not only about how to be safe with sex, but also about how to treat another individual in a relationship and what else goes in to a good relationship. when we talk about our children and their teen years we never discuss teaching them how to properly become adults in a few years.

there is always ongoing discussion about how to keep teens safe during sex. maybe the sex wouldn't even be an issue if they were taught that it's not the first thing in a REAL relationship anyway. if more kids were limited in watching t.v. (especially watching NO mtv) and limited in certain activities away from home with their friends and actually parented in the right way then they wouldn't get to the point of needing sex at 15 yrs old.







:


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## Valerie.Qc (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68*
how can a 15 y o be moving in to their own apartment in a year?? that seems very young to me and like she is basically being set up to act as an adult at a very young age.







I have neices and nephews between the ages of 13-24 and it scares me to think that they would have been put out so young.

Ofcourse you are right in saying they will have sex when they are ready. It's best to give them the education they need on sex and how to keep themselves safe from pregnancy and diseases. BUT sex isn't all that adults are doing. They are making a living, going to college, becoming responsible inviduals in many ways, not just having wild sex every day.







Are you teaching your child this stuff too?

In our family there is a new baby expected in a few months by a 17 yr old neice in my husband's family. His other two nieces, ages 21 and 23 already have little ones and also had them very young. They got pregnant within the first year of moving out of their parents homes.







It's sad IMO, but I guess they were told to grow up faster than they were ready to. Now they regret having babies so young but they can't change it now. They have humans they are responsible for many years to come. I feel sorry for them.

I hope I can do better with my kids than my siblings and DH's siblings have done..... rather than just telling them what sex is like, what to avoid, how to be safe and pushing them out of my home one day expecting them to make the right choices.







Hell, I didn't even know how to make the right choices in a relationship until I was in my late 20's and even then I was still stupid in some areas. I'm lucky I didn't have an unwanted baby long before I did.

I just feel sorry for teens these days. I saw a special on this on t.v. the other day on how they are growing up way too fast now. They are already expected to grow up TOO fast by the media through mtv, sexual music, internet, cell phones, etc. Why are parents also pushing their kids to be adults so young. It's soooo sad. I guess some parents just don't get it. It's not a rite for a 15 yr old child to have their independence and ability to make their own choices. They aren't adults until they are 18 in my house and even then they will be limited as far as what they do if they are living under my roof.







I will raise them to be responsible and know that sex isn't all that makes a relatoinship and they can make a life for themselves without depending on people of the opposite sex taking care of them. They will be independent in their thinking hopefully by 18 years of age and not 'de'pendent on the opposite sex.

Ya let's go! You know everything and I'm a very bad parent just wanting to get rid of my kids as soon as I can







:

Just so others knows and doesn't agree with you too fast:

My DD wants to study - we live far from the city where the CEGEP is (next step after high school here in Quebec) so she needs to move there to persue her goal (she already gets up at 5h30 to catch the school bus for the high school). Yes she's young, yes it's hard for me to let her go, yes I intend to keep an eye on her while she's there and go to see her often, but I can't just say to her that she's too young and need to put her dreams on hold because we don't live in the city and we won't move just for 2 years because then she will head to another city for University... We can't follow her until she gets her degree and she can't get it while living at home. (mommy68, I guess you live in a city with good schools around if you intend to keep your kids at home for a long time... but what if they want to study something that is teach in another city or another state??? will you crush there dreams just like that because it doesn't fit in *your* plan?)

_They are making a living, going to college, becoming responsible inviduals in many ways, not just having wild sex every day.







Are you teaching your child this stuff too?_

Are you seriously asking me this?








:

Oh well, you can think whatever you want... I know I'm a good mom!


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Valerie-
I think this is a case of culture clash.

Speaking in generalizatins:

Schooling under the age of 5 is optional, though some states are pushing for mandatory, universal, preschool.

Kids in America start kindergarten, which is not mandatory in *most* states, at about age 5.

They graduate 8th grade, and go to high school at about age 14.

Most kids graduate highschool at age 17-18.

In most states, you can NOT drop out of school until at LEAST 16 years of age, and in some places, older. You HAVE to go to some sort of school (public, private, homeschool), or the truancy offiver shows up, you end up in family court, charged with educational neglect, etc. Which means that optional schooling here, by law, is the last two years of highschool, and any college or trade school you attend after the completion of 12th grade. But not having a highschool diploma (which means attending until you have completed 12th grade) is like the kiss of death here. It is very difficult to get a job without it.

And it is getting more difficult to get a job without some form of college or trade school after high school, which means that for most Americans their children leave to go away to college at 18, after completing high school, and then spend another 2-4 years in school after that in college or trade school, making them 20-22 years old before they are done with their education.

Most parents consider those 4 years of highschool (ages 14-18) to be ABSOLUTELY necessary. and college is *highly* recommended. In fact, many parents now encourage their children to go on and get their Master's Degree, and/ or doctorate degrees. That pushes the age of school completion from anywhere to 24-28 years old, depending on the subject.

Most kids in America live at home until they are 18, in order to complete high school,, and then they have financial support, and are watched closely by their parents until the completion of college. Many of the people I know moved back HOME after college, at age 22.

Oh yeah. Forgot to add that you are legally an adult in the U.S. until age 18. Until that point, your parents are legally responsible for you. In most states, to move out on your own before then, without potentially getting into trouble, you need to be emancipated by a judge.

Your parents can also make arrangements for you to live with someone else (friend, family, college dorm), but they couldn't really just set you up in an apartment and leave you there. The parent could be charged with neglect.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DavinaT*
Interesting point about fertility charting enabling you to try for a specific gender. The predominant belief among medical circles here is that the gender of the baby is decided by the male (sperm) side rather than the time of ovulation.

The sperm carries the male/female chromosone, but where the woman is in her cycle helps determine which sperm is more comfortable and likely to reach the egg (as in, whether her body is more acid or alkaline at the time).


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68*
why not teach them about everything else that goes in to a relationship. if more kids were limited in watching t.v. (especially watching NO mtv) and limited in certain activities away from home with their friends and *actually parented in the right way* then they wouldn't get to the point of needing sex at 15 yrs old.







:









My kids don't watch tv. I never watch it and the telvision we have is for DVD's, most of which are Powwows.
How is teaching your child that pre-marital sex is wrong/bad going to teach them about healthy sexual relationships?
What if your child grows up to want more than one sexual partner?
What if they are GLBT and cannot legally marry?


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## magemom (Mar 5, 2002)

dd is 16, ds#1 is14....

dd has a bf. absolutely never alone with her bf. no dates, no alone chillin', almost everything covered on the first page.

her mama was pregnant with her at 16 and she is not trusting of b/c. maintains she will be a virgin at her wedding. her grades are still very high, her activities are many. (collecting scholarships every year) we know the boy and his parents, some of their "dates" are dinner at each other's homes. they have not been anywhere alone or now that he can drive, driven to anything that was not a school function. his grades have improved. his mom and dh used to work together and we do compair notes. the rules are the same with the exception of driving, we are the stricter parents.

yet, i am still thecool mom to her friends, but i know she is frustrated with me. oh well. my parents let me date at 14 had no clue what i was doing till i was pregnant!

many of the dates are school or church functions i am at. i trust her, know i have a good kid. i am sure my parents felt i was a good kid too, but we are pretty open as to why we are control freaks. She is the only baby girl we will most likely ever have.

I expect the same will apply for ds- if he ever notices girls.


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## DragonflyBlue (Oct 21, 2003)

Quote:

why not teach them about everything else that goes in to a relationship. if more kids were limited in watching t.v. (especially watching NO mtv) and limited in certain activities away from home with their friends and actually parented in the right way then they wouldn't get to the point of needing sex at 15 yrs old.
I find this comment to be extremely offensive.

Guess what? Even parents who do actually "parent in the right way" have kids who grow up and make up their own minds about things they will and will not do. You can teach a child all you want but when they walk out the door, the make their own choices.

I had two friends growing up that were polar opposites. One was from a wild family where most anything went and the pother from a very religious background. Guess which one had sex first and got pregnant first. It sure wasn't the girl who had the "wrong" type of parents.

I'm just stunned by the "parented in the right way" comment. Just stunned.

Janis


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

Maybe there's a generation gap here. I started having sex at 15, and have had several sex partners. I don't think there's a problem with that and I would not have a probelm with my children choosing to have (protected!) sex at 15-17. They can date whenever they want and they can be alone with their dates. I would actually hope that they not wait until marriage (if they're hetero and believe in marriage). I don't think it's a good idea.
I was a "teen mom" but I conceived my oldest son at 18, with the boyfriend I'd lived with for a year, after trying for 6 mos. I would not be disappointed in my children if they follow in my footsteps.
I'm 22, so maybe I'll turn into a prude over the next decade, but I doubt it. I can only hope my children are as level-headed and safe as I was as a teen. If they get their potential partners tested for STIs and use condoms every time, I will be very proud of them as young adults.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JanisB*
I find this comment to be extremely offensive.

Guess what? Even parents who do actually "parent in the right way" have kids who grow up and make up their own minds about things they will and will not do. You can teach a child all you want but when they walk out the door, the make their own choices.


whatever







Why would you be offended at my opinion on a topic? I didn't say YOu were parenting wrong. I have watched MTV as well as other stuff that teens these day ARE most certainly watching and some of the crap on that channel is just appalling.







say what you want to clear yourself of the choices your child may make. If it were me I would make sure my kids are taught right from wrong for years up until they need to go out and make their own decisions without me around. It's up to me to limit the bad things around them that are found in the media and peer groups. If you don't agree with my way of doing things then that's fine.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hottmama*
Maybe there's a generation gap here. I started having sex at 15, and have had several sex partners. I don't think there's a problem with that and I would not have a probelm with my children choosing to have (protected!) sex at 15-17. They can date whenever they want and they can be alone with their dates. I would actually hope that they not wait until marriage (if they're hetero and believe in marriage). I don't think it's a good idea.
I was a "teen mom" but I conceived my oldest son at 18, with the boyfriend I'd lived with for a year, after trying for 6 mos. I would not be disappointed in my children if they follow in my footsteps.
I'm 22, so maybe I'll turn into a prude over the next decade, but I doubt it. I can only hope my children are as level-headed and safe as I was as a teen. If they get their potential partners tested for STIs and use condoms every time, I will be very proud of them as young adults.

I'm not a prude *just* because I'm going on 40 years old







I'm not a very young 22 years old like you are (but I have been, hehe), although I am 38 years old and I look at things similar to what you are.







I chose to be young at 22 and be a parent closer to 30 years old (after I'd lived life a while) so if that makes me a prude then that's A-O.K. with me.







: I know that all the 20ish year olds I know right now with babies (I know 5 girls personally) all have the same mentality that you do and that's fine. I realize you are still very young and when i was your age i probably would have felt the same. But I have 16 more years under my belt and some of the things I've seen and been through personally have formed who I am and why I feel the way I do. that doesn't make me wrong in my thinking.

I will say if either one of my kids come home and tell me they are expecting a baby while under 18 and under my roof, I will happily help them with whatever choices they make (hopefully they choose to keep it). I would have no problem with it. However, I do hope that I will raise them well enough to make better choices for themselves and to put themselves first at that age and do what they need to do in life to get ahead of the game.







there's nothing wrong with me wanting the best for my children. If that makes me a prude, then I'm a proud prude for wanting the best for the only children I will ever have during the only 18 years I will have the chance to raise them.


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## swimswamswum (Oct 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68*
whatever







Why would you be offended at my opinion on a topic? I didn't say YOu were parenting wrong. I have watched MTV as well as other stuff that teens these day ARE most certainly watching and some of the crap on that channel is just appalling.







say what you want to clear yourself of the choices your child may make. If it were me I would make sure my kids are taught right from wrong for years up until they need to go out and make their own decisions without me around. It's up to me to limit the bad things around them that are found in the media and peer groups. If you don't agree with my way of doing things then that's fine.

I just want to say that you should watch how you respond to people. You have NO IDEA what kinds of lives other people have and what they've been through. Some of the mamas here have been through crap that most of us cannot imagine. . .

You can pat yourself on the back now, but you really don't know what your children will do and how they will act. Give a mama a break with the smugness. Everyone does what they think is best. Sheesh.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68*
why not teach them about everything else that goes in to a relationship. if more kids were limited in watching t.v. (especially watching NO mtv) and limited in certain activities away from home with their friends and actually parented in the right way then they wouldn't get to the point of needing sex at 15 yrs old.

 I couldn't disagree more with most of this, and the tone is really unpleasant. You are not the final authority on who is or is not parenting "in the right way". TV does not make children go wildly sexual, and my kids who are not sexually active yet watch MTV and then some without issue.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68*
However, I do hope that I will raise them well enough to make better choices for themselves and to put themselves first at that age and do what they need to do in life to get ahead of the game.

Well, that is where you will find the biggest difference in our thinking. I know life is not a game, but reality and I will raise my children to live in reality, not some fantasy game I make up in my own mind.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68*
whatever







Why would you be offended at my opinion on a topic? I didn't say YOu were parenting wrong. I have watched MTV as well as other stuff that teens these day ARE most certainly watching and some of the crap on that channel is just appalling.







say what you want to clear yourself of the choices your child may make. If it were me I would make sure my kids are taught right from wrong for years up until they need to go out and make their own decisions without me around. It's up to me to limit the bad things around them that are found in the media and peer groups. If you don't agree with my way of doing things then that's fine.

My mom did all that. It's too bad she couldn't protect me from her father (became a pedophile due to brain damage when I was six months old), her mother (who knew what was going on and bribed us and hid it and helped him get away with it) or the janitor at my elementary school. I "needed" sex at 15...partly because my sex drive was very, very high and partly because I had a whole lot of issues around sex that had nothing to do with the way I was parented. As much as it sucks, I'm well aware that even with close, involved parenting and limited exposure to the media (MTV wasn't even around when I was a kid), I can't protect my kids from everything, and things that I have no control over are going to affect them. Teaching them "right from wrong" (not the way I'd put it where sex is concerned, personally) is only part of the picture.


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## tash11 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel*
And I can't imagine being willing to give up sex during the only part of the month that I'm interested in it. To each her own.

you dont have to give it up. my husband and I charted and we just used something during fertile days and didnt on the other parts of the month.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy*
The sperm carries the male/female chromosone, but where the woman is in her cycle helps determine which sperm is more comfortable and likely to reach the egg (as in, whether her body is more acid or alkaline at the time).

its also how long the spearm stays there. if you have sex a few days before you oveulate the male sperm cells will die off leaving only the females. Thats how I knew we were having a girl.


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## DragonflyBlue (Oct 21, 2003)

Quote:

whatever Why would you be offended at my opinion on a topic? I didn't say YOu were parenting wrong. I have watched MTV as well as other stuff that teens these day ARE most certainly watching and some of the crap on that channel is just appalling. say what you want to clear yourself of the choices your child may make. If it were me I would make sure my kids are taught right from wrong for years up until they need to go out and make their own decisions without me around. It's up to me to limit the bad things around them that are found in the media and peer groups. If you don't agree with my way of doing things then that's fine.
I do teach my children right from wrong. Always have, always will. But the reality is, that no matter how well we tech them, they will walk out the door and make their owm choices. Some good, some bad, some horrible.

You can do your best to limit bad influences but they lurk around every corner and I refuse to raise my children in a bubble of constant protection. They need a normal life, going to friends, having fun, movies, music etc. Not all things are acceptable. There are limits and boundaries they have to abide by.

There are times though that despite all you think you know, you find oiut you know jack $hit about parenting and are left with your world turned upside down. You may have talked till you were blue in the face, listened until your ears went numb, validated, respected, taught and your child will still walk out the door and make choices contrary to everything they've been taught. You cannot control your children's every move. You may want to, but you can't.

Oh-- I'm not a "young" mom nor am I a prude.

Janis


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## lissabob (Dec 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68*
do you realize that birth control pills have hormones in them that your daughter doesn't need? especially at her age? why tell your child that this is somehow right to take such a thing at her age 'just in case'? I'm sorry but it really bothers me that someone would actually do that. just inform her of what she needs to know and have a close relationship with her. then if she is ready for BC pills she could come to you and ask you about it at that time. you are giving her the idea that it's okay to have the sex if someone she really doesn't want it with pushes her in to it to somehow prove her love for him. she will most likely think oh well I'm on BC pills so i'm safe, so why not. this is her body! that's not right. why do you have any right to choose for her anyway? she's her own person.









what if your daughter does go out and get pregnant by having sex without using protection. that would be her problem and she would have to deal with an unwanted child or disease. i just feel it's wrong for parents to just put the kids on BC pills. it's like your putting her on BC pills and then sitting back and saying "ahhhhh, it's all taken care of." that's crazy IMO! why not tell talk to her constantly about relationships and life and tell her to wait for the right guy and if she thinks she is with that guy then to come to you and talk about birth control options at that point? that seems like the best way to go about it. in the meantime you are just polluting her body with those hormones for no reason. she's a child. why should she be so consumed with thoughts of sex possibly happening at her age when she needs to be worried about grades in school, college in her future, sports, academics, etc.









i was on BC pills from the time I was 15 (got on them myself, thank you) and was on them for a little over 20 years - on and off when i had kids. i went off because of how bad they are for my body. BUT i chose when and if to take them, no one else made that choice for me. maybe if i would have had a caring parent to tell me how bad they are for my body back then i never would have chosen to use them, but i don't know. BUT it was my choice to make when i did make it.

I just have to respond. My dps "put" me on bc when I was 16 and they knew I had a bf and that I was maturing and there was a possibility of my having sex. Now, there was no way of them FORCING me to take them, so it was really my decision in the end to go ahead and be on bc. I don't think it should be left completely up to a teenage to put themselves on bc because, at least in my case, it took a trip the gyn, going to the pharmacy etc... all of which I couldn't do without my dps help. And no, it did NOT send me the message that "it's okay to have the sex if someone she really doesn't want it with pushes her in to it to somehow prove her love for him. she will most likely think oh well I'm on BC pills so i'm safe, so why not." Absolutely not. It let me know my parents cared about my choices, that they cared enough about me and respected my maturity and ability to make decisions enough to offer this form of protecting MYSELF so that if/when the time came I wouldn't be one of the girls who had sex WITHOUT any sort of protection/bc because they weren't thinking that far ahead.
If I had gotten pregnant or gotten a disease, it wouldn't have been "just my problem". My dps would have absolutely been there for me.
As to why a dd would be consumed with thoughts of sex





















I'm sorry but from 13 on my hormones were definitely going crazy, and I went a little boy crazy. I had my crushes, bfs and dates. I was an expert at getting out of the house to go hang out with friends (small town, not much else to do BUT hang out) but really would split off at some point to see my bf of the minute. I was taught about bc, sex, the "lines", etc... and I waited to have sex until *I* was ready and was in love.. at 16. Yes, some say that's "too young" but coming from a family where my dps married at 16 and 18 and are still married 30 yrs later, I don't. My ex and I were together for 5 years until I got tired of waiting for him to get over his marriage phobia (his parents were divorced







) so we could move forward in getting married- we were engaged for 3 yrs at that point. Backtracking- by the time I was 16/17 my dps knew it was time to loosen the reins so that when I moved away for college I wouldn't go completely nuts with my newfound freedom. I was allowed a lot more control of my life and really it benefited me when I did move out because it wasn't so much of a shock to be in control of myself.

Ok, as to dating- dh says she's never ever going to date or move out.







I tell him he's being ridiculous







and that if we're a little less restrictive than my dps were (who tried to have the whole no dating, no bfs rules at first which so many of you want to have ) things could turn out even better for her. Hopefully I'll be able to know who/what/when/where better than my dps did, but realistically I know that unless I'm not crowding her that's just not going to happen. I'm not sure exactly what rules I will have as of yet, but I do know we'll have a lot of talks about respecting herself, and being able to trust mom not to blow her top if she's doing something "too young".


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## lissabob (Dec 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kaylee18*
Lots of parents appear to be putting their daughters on the Pill, or encouraging them to get on it.

Why is it so very rare to hear of a daughter being taught to chart her fertility pattern? As in, Taking Charge of Your Fertility?

I've been charting since I was a teeenager, since before I ever had sex, and never had an issue with knowing when I was fertile or deciding what to do (or not do) because of that. It is wonderful now, at 25, getting ready for conception, to have confidence that I am healthy with a good luteal phase and a regular ovulation pattern, to know exactly *when* conception is likely to happen (to the extent that we can even try for a certain gender if we want!), and to have the peace of mind that my body has never had hormonal interference.

Fertility awareness is also a more forgiving method than taking the Pill, since forgetting a day of the Pill is a great way to trigger ovulation, with pregnancy going from a statistical improbability to a near certainty; while forgetting a day of charting means you draw a dashed line, _think_ about what the temps mean again, and remember not to have sex until you have more information on your cycle. Without the side effects that the Pill has. At about the same level of daily hassle. And with plenty of options for timing and combining methods to make sex safer (such as only having sex during the time period that is both after ovulation and before menses, with a condom).

I don't get why the Pill is so popular







. I think knowing my body is a million times better than "turning it off."

Maybe because charting isn't as effective? Because there are nice side effects to pills (lighter periods, less cramps, better skin...) And you can do the exact same thing if you miss a pill- you use a back up form of birth control (if not in a monogamous or serious relationship where they both have been tested condoms should already be in use anyways) or you forgo sex until you know you're "safe". I understand NFP is a great thing, but I know as a teen I would not have done well with it.


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## lissabob (Dec 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaInTheBoonies*
I did, as did all of my siblings. Also, you don't need to always use temp, just know your cycle and change in cervical fluid.

You have gotten posts from at least two who said it was easier and safer than chemical BC.

That is not true. Teenagers/women are way more intelligent than you are giving them credit for.

My story: I believed ppl like you who said I wasn't smart enough and had to use BC. SO, I quit charting and got on The Pill. Voila! Unplanned pg with my Sami.
Went back and same thing, was told charting is unsafe, got the Depo Shot. Voila! Unplanned pg with my last baby.
Now I have two daughters when I had no money to care for them and it has been frikkin' hard.

For me, I went back to charting and using condoms/abstaining, and so far, no unplanned pregnancies!

No offence, but if you had been using condoms while on the others methods isn't it possible you wouldn't have had those pregnancies? I think it's often a good choice to ALWAYS use a 2nd method of bc unless you're prepared for the unplanned, kwim?


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lissabob*
No offence, but if you had been using condoms while on the others methods isn't it possible you wouldn't have had those pregnancies? I think it's often a good choice to ALWAYS use a 2nd method of bc unless you're prepared for the unplanned, kwim?

I did use a condom with the first, but not with the second. Also, I am allergic to latex and non-latex condoms are extremely expensive.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lissabob*
Because there are nice side effects to pills (lighter periods, less cramps, better skin...)

Do you also know the not-so-nice side effects?


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## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lissabob*
Maybe because charting isn't as effective? Because there are nice side effects to pills (lighter periods, less cramps, better skin...) And you can do the exact same thing if you miss a pill- you use a back up form of birth control (if not in a monogamous or serious relationship where they both have been tested condoms should already be in use anyways) or you forgo sex until you know you're "safe". I understand NFP is a great thing, but I know as a teen I would not have done well with it.









I think the whole practice of charting is a healthy and empowering one for young women. I only imagine if I had known my body that well when I was an adolescent, I wouldn't have made some of the bad decisions that I did. I don't think it's all about bc, but awareness.

When I was dating as a 16 yo, I was so ignorant of my body. I said 'yes' when if I had been more confident, I would've said 'no'. That's why I want to teach my DD all about the method of charting. Also, I want her to be connected to her cycle as it coincides with the cycle of the moon. I want to teach her about Lunaception...why women used to all have their cycles at the same time, so much more. I think it goes beyond just the physical reality of sexual experiences as it relates to bc.


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## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)

I wanted to add that the issue of bc, besides NFP, would be discussed as well. I wouldn't only want her to know about NFP, just to have that as a base, to know herself before she decides whether or not she is intimate with someone (my hope is that if she knows the consequences of the pill~~being cut off from your natural bodily cycles~~ she will decide to abstain)

One can only hope.


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## lissabob (Dec 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaInTheBoonies*
Do you also know the not-so-nice side effects?

I've done my research, yes.


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## ^guest^ (Jul 2, 2005)

BLARG I pressed a wrong button and borked my nice post. WAH.

Anywho -- While I'm not a parent to a teen yet (she's 1y) and I'm sure my perceptions are subject to change as she grows, but I'd like to hope my AP philosophies will extend on into her teenagerhood. If she shows the signs of being emotionally and mentally ready for dating, then I'd love to guide her into the world of relationships (as slowly and gently as possible, haha). If she doesn't, and starts asking about dating, then I'd have to let her know that I didn't feel she was ready, explain to her how the adult concepts of "love" and "commitment" aren't really compatible with a grueling academic or athletic schedule, and they can interfere with long-term goals, explain that the dating scene puts unnecessary stress on her when it comes to sexual pressure and the consequences of having sex before one is ready, and all other things parents don't think they're kids would understand when they say "No. Just no because I'm the Mom. If she still wants to date, she can make an appeal to the Court of Mom™ at a later date when she feels she's ready and can make smart relationship decisions, and not because "I won't be popular if I don't" or "Everyone else has a boyfriend."

I just don't think setting a rigid age limit on dating is as beneficial as knowing your own child's maturity level and being open and honest with them. If my parents had let me date when I was ready, instead of setting the "16" age limit, AND helped me in making wiser relationship decisions instead of making me feel like they couldn't handle hearing about it (because it reminded them that their little girl grew up), I think my life would have taken a drastic turn for the better.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

kaylee18 said:


> Lots of parents appear to be putting their daughters on the Pill, or encouraging them to get on it.
> 
> Why is it so very rare to hear of a daughter being taught to chart her fertility pattern? As in, Taking Charge of Your Fertility?
> 
> ...


Great post!

I completely agree. Its nice to hear from someone who was aware of charting in their adolescence. What a fun way to get to know your body, and your new fertility as a young person. I love that fertility potential is put in a positive light, rather than the usual predictable, yawn provoking negative light, to be repressed with fake hormones that are bad for you., and the ever looming threat of pregnancy.
Yes, some people like the pill for whatever reason, but I am so glad I rarely used it. I intend to teach both my daughter and sons about charting. To me, its just more science, and more ways of appreciating life.
Knowledge they say, is power.

(yes, i know these posts are old, but mothering is so boring nowadays and I am thinking ahead about the teen years with a son who is approaching 10)


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

pookel said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kaylee18*
> _I don't get why the Pill is so popular
> 
> ...


It fairly easy to just use condoms.

We are talking about a teen whose body is still developing. We are talking about having awareness of one's fertility, one's body. Knowledge=autonomy.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

kaylee18 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> _Well...I can think of reasons. I can imagine a teen girl who charts being likely to "fudge" it in terms of when sex would be safe to have. ("I'm probably okay. Yeah, pretty much.") I mean, I know several adult women who have gotten PG while charting to avoid because they were a little too optimistic/risky._
> 
> ...


Thanks for this very informative post!


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