# Anyone up for reading 'Unconditional Parenting' and having a discussion week by week and chapter by chapter about it?



## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Ha, the title pretty much says it all







Sign up here, and we'll get started as soon as we have 5-15 people signed up.


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## MamaKickyPants (Sep 21, 2008)

I'm in! I've read it once already, but that was a while ago, so I'd love to give it a more in-depth go-around. Great idea, btw.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Sure!


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

One chapter a week? I'm in!


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## mariamadly (Jul 28, 2009)

I will!


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Ok, well start reading tomorrow, the 21st, then. We can talk here throughout the week about it, but we'll come back on the 27-29th and discuss the intoduction and Chapter 1 in depth, okay? Don't forget to subscribe to this thread!


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## i_like_ike (Feb 5, 2007)

I just started reading it so great timing.


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## Kreeblim (Dec 19, 2009)

I would love to...though it's a busy week to hunt down a copy. I'll either join in on time or catch up by the second week


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

I just ordered my book last night (amazon 2 day), but we will be traveling until the second. I'll read it, though, and post as soon as I can. I'm really excited about this (dh is, too.)


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## spirit4ever (Nov 4, 2004)

I'll join too!!!!!!!!!!

I could re-read that book!!!!


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## sgmom (Mar 5, 2009)

Such a great book. I just finished it (for the second time) a couple weeks ago. I plan to buy it the next time I'm in the mood to read it.

Count me in.


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## mamaluvs (Nov 9, 2007)

Great idea! How do I subscribe to the thread?


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## FrugalGranolaMom (Dec 1, 2009)

I'm in!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaluvs* 
Great idea! How do I subscribe to the thread?

Go to the top of the first post and click Thread tools then click Subscribe to this thread


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## fireweed (Nov 27, 2007)

I'd love to join too, but I'll have to start next week with chapter 2. I'm madly trying to finish making some gifts, and then there will be a lot of visiting this week.


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## Lovin' It (Jun 7, 2006)

Great idea! Going through a crazy time right now, but I'll try to keep up.


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Great idea, I'm in.


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

I read the Introduction this morning, and here's what stuck out to me so far:

"What are you LONG TERM objectives for your children? What word or phrase comes to mind to describe how you'd like them to turn out, what you want them to be like when they're grown?"

"Are my everyday practices likely to produce that outcome?"

My answer to question #2 is no, unfortunately. I tend to yell or hurry or just say no, quite often









My answer to question #1 is this:

I want my kids to be fulfilled, content, challengers of the status-quo, creative, kind, loving, intelligent, mindful, brave people.

Another thing that stood out is that when kids obey mindlessly (as my DS sometimes does) they are likely to loose their sense of self









I can attest to that, as that happened to me, growing up. Anyone else started reading yet?


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## hrsmom (Jul 4, 2008)

I'd love to join you! (







sgmom)

I read it when my LO was a tiny babe. Now that she actually moves around and has her own ideas about lots of things, it's worth a re-read, I'm sure!!!


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## Moonchild77 (Apr 15, 2008)

I am in too!

I live in the Netherlands, got the book in English, read pieces of it, will start now with you guys!!


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## mamaluvs (Nov 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrugalGranolaMom* 
I'm in!

Go to the top of the first post and click Thread tools then click Subscribe to this thread


Thanks!


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## i_like_ike (Feb 5, 2007)

I have almost finished the book, but I will try not to get ahead of myself.
This philosophy resonated with me. Since my son was an infant I have tried to look at what he needs v. the behavior. I know that when he is tired, hungry, needs to pee, or feeling ignored he is more likely to act out. Taking care of the need usually helps. We also sleep share and I nurse him about once a day (my son will be 3 in Jan.).
I have not read this book before, but it is so refreshing after reading "Love & Logic," which really didn't sit right --- not just in the proposed isolation but in making everything an "economic transaction," as Kohn discusses in relation to conditional parenting.

I love the quote about loving our children "for no good reason."

This all being said, I am having difficulty putting it all into action...well, progress, not perfection. I will discuss more about that when we get to chapter 2.


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## AlishaB (Dec 15, 2009)

I am actually reading that book right now! Can I still join? Alfie is my hero, I saw him at a talk and fell in love.


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlishaB* 
I am actually reading that book right now! Can I still join? Alfie is my hero, I saw him at a talk and fell in love.









Yup, you are welcome! Don't tell his wife you fell for him


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## Materfamilias (Feb 22, 2008)

I read this last summer but could definitely stand a refresher. I've gotten into terrible habits with my 7 yo DS and my 17 mo DD is really starting to be a challenge!


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## simplify4balance (Jul 21, 2009)

I am so happy about this!
I read this a few months ago when things were out of control around here...
Well, I have really struggled with the concepts in this book. It feels very right to me, but I found that in practice I ended up feeling really pushed around by my kids. I have just started using gentle time outs again with my almost 3 yo dd. I also have told her that if she can not stay in bed (reading books is fine) that I will have to take her crayons away the next day. It is working. I feel yucky about cohersing her and holding an arbitrary punishment over her head... but I NEEDED it to work.
Any how I look forward to looking at this book with a more balanced perspective.
Great idea. I look forward to chatting more!


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

i'm in. funny i was coming to start the same sort of thing. lol. i am on chapter two!

h


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## ihugtrees (Oct 16, 2008)

I just started reading too, but my book has to go back to the library. I will order a book from Amazon and join you guys soon


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

What did you all enjoy or glean from the book this week?


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## buttercups.nest (Jul 2, 2009)

totally in! off to see the inlaws for a week but hopefully i can still get some reading done









thanks!


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

so i am on chapter 4. this is my third try at reading this book. the first time i was mad about how he presented the time out as just as bad as a spanking. then i thought about it a bit and agreed. so i tried it again, but then i got upset about the part about praising kids... how can it be wrong, i enjoy getting told i am doing a good job. so i stopped reading again. now i am on time #3 and so far i am getting what he is saying and agreeing with it. i wish it was set up a bit different with examples and ideas of the things he is talking about right next to the things you shouldn't do instead of in later chapters. that being said he writes really well and it is all so true.
talking about behaviorism was really eye opening, how most parenting books focus on the behavior instead of the root cause and if they do touch on it it is sort of an afterthought.
the stuff in chapter 4 has been really eye opening... like the idea of "natural consequences" that has always made me feel a bit weird, like i could help them, but they need this lesson even if you know you would help an adult in the same situation if it was possible. how a child could loose trust in us because we allow bad things to happen to them and that it is the same as punishment, we just call it that to make us feel better. on page 68-69 when he talks about punishment eroding our realtionship with our kids... the line that really made my eyes well up was "...or talked to in a voice that has all the love drained out of it..." i think "we" forget just how big and scary we are and can be when we loose it and freak on our kids.
i love how he brings up that things that differ from the mainstream are subject to suspition and thought of as not working if they don't work right away... BUT that spanking or time outs or yelling can be used over and over even if it is obvious it isn't working.

i am looking forward to seeing what his ideas are.

h


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## unschoolinmom (Dec 23, 2009)

I've gotten the book too. I'm peeved a bit that I've had to put it down since I have a 1,750 word paper on the ecological diversity of the Manas Wildlife Sanctuary due on the 10th for my final project in Biology so I have NO time to read. Though dh has been reading it for me. I'll catch up though!


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## mariamadly (Jul 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThoughtFullMama* 
What did you all enjoy or glean from the book this week?

The most thought-provoking part for me is the possible disparity between my intention as a parent and the perception my children have. Because I *feel* unconditionally loving about them but have learned so many unconsciously judgmental patterns of speaking that they may hear something different entirely. I'll have to listen to myself very closely.

How do the rest of you play back / evaluate the way you speak to or treat your LOs? Or anyone around you? I mean, for those of you who have learned to catch yourselves from sounding conditional, what insights have helped you do this?


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MariaMadly* 
The most thought-provoking part for me is the possible disparity between my intention as a parent and the perception my children have. Because I *feel* unconditionally loving about them but have learned so many unconsciously judgmental patterns of speaking that they may hear something different entirely. I'll have to listen to myself very closely.

How do the rest of you play back / evaluate the way you speak to or treat your LOs? Or anyone around you? I mean, for those of you who have learned to catch yourselves from sounding conditional, what insights have helped you do this?

:That That has been the most thought provoking thing for me in this chapter, too. I feel my love for them unconditionally, for no good reason, as Alfie put it, but how do I know my children feel that way, too? Especially since I'm human, prone to bad moods, never get enough sleep, lose my patience, etc...

It seems that keeping a connection with kids when they are at their most challenging- having a tantrum, hurting the younger sibling, intentionally doing what they have been asked not to, etc...- is very important to them believing my love is unconditional.

Sometimes I feel like I am walking a very fine line, staying connected while being very clear about expectations and redirecting specific behaviors, especially with my DD while she is asserting her will and testing limits. I want her to have freedom and not be mindlessly obedient, but at the same time, sometimes I need to insist on having my way.

To use an example from today: it's 5 degrees F and I'm freezing my butt off while she takes her time getting into the car seat, and my health and comfort needs her to hurry up, so I insist. There was no punishment attached, just a strongly voiced - 'I'm freezing HURRY UP!!!' But I wonder, how does she experience my insistence? As a power trip ('this person twice my size is speaking so loudly to me!'), conditional love (i.e., 'go fast or get yelled at'), or- as I hope- 'hey, my actions affect others, I don't want Mom to be cold so I better climb in faster'?


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## unschoolinmom (Dec 23, 2009)

I was reading the back of the book and some passages to my friend who has one child that is now older. I was so enthusiastic about it until she stopped me and said, "children are not meant to be treated this way. Their feelings do not matter until they're older and even then they need to know their place."

My mouth dropped and I'm only so glad I was on the phone. I'm beginning to wonder now if a lot of people don't see children as people at all!


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *unschoolinmom* 
I was reading the back of the book and some passages to my friend who has one child that is now older. I was so enthusiastic about it until she stopped me and said, "children are not meant to be treated this way. Their feelings do not matter until they're older and even then they need to know their place."

My mouth dropped and I'm only so glad I was on the phone. I'm beginning to wonder now if a lot of people don't see children as people at all!

I definitely think a lot of people believe this, to some degree at least. It can be hard when all the people we're around parent this way and encourage us to do so also.

When DD was potty-learning, she had a hard time pooping in the potty because she had a history of constipation and was so afraid it would hurt. I explained to someone that we were helping her be less afraid, finding ways to ease the constipation, and letting her poop in a pull-up if she wanted until she felt more comfortable with the process. The response I got was, don't worry about how she feels, just put a sticker chart on the wall of the bathroom and give her a sticker for every time she poops in the toilet. Take one away when she poops in a pull up. She'll learn really fast. Yeah, she'll learn that not only do mom and dad not care that pooping hurts her sometimes, she'll lose a sticker when she's at her most scared. Great lesson.


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## mamaluvs (Nov 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onemomentatatime* 
I definitely think a lot of people believe this, to some degree at least. It can be hard when all the people we're around parent this way and encourage us to do so also.

When DD was potty-learning, she had a hard time pooping in the potty because she had a history of constipation and was so afraid it would hurt. I explained to someone that we were helping her be less afraid, finding ways to ease the constipation, and letting her poop in a pull-up if she wanted until she felt more comfortable with the process. The response I got was, don't worry about how she feels, just put a sticker chart on the wall of the bathroom and give her a sticker for every time she poops in the toilet. Take one away when she poops in a pull up. She'll learn really fast. Yeah, she'll learn that not only do mom and dad not care that pooping hurts her sometimes, she'll lose a sticker when she's at her most scared. Great lesson.

It's unbelievable to me that basically good people don't even think about a child's feelings. Even before reading this book, I often tried to determine how DD was feeling/what she was thinking. It just seemed like the logical thing to do-how else would I build a relationship with her and continue to get to know her?

Also, I never understood why people gave stickers/candy, etc to potty learners. It doesn't make sense to reward something that one must do for the rest of one's life. When do you stop the rewards?


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## mamaluvs (Nov 9, 2007)

Thoughts on chapter one:

Like other posters, I too was struck by the concept of my child's perception vs my intentions. That was the most thought provoking concept in that chapter, perhaps even in the book.

Also, this chapter got me thinking about my short term goals vs my long term goals for my child. I'd never put the two together or heard of anyone considering the long-term consequences of their short-term goals. It makes sense though!

Even if I didn't get anything else out of the book(which I did) I think just starting to think about these concepts could easily change my parenting style for the better.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

something i am curious to see if Alfie touches on, is when do we (as parents) get to put our needs first. as a pp said when you are standing the the cold and snow and you are gently encouraging the child to put a move on it and then finally it is like ... HURRY UP! i don't want my kids to see me as this meanie, but you know sometimes i just want them to move it! lol sometimes i don't want to spend 20 minutes explaining why we have to get in the van to pick up sister. just do it! i am sure this will come easier as i break old patterns. and they learn that i am not going to get all freaky and yell. that right now there will be alot of explaining on my part and alot of them learning this new way of doing things.

it truly is really a completely different way to parent. i never really thought of time outs as bad, i mean they were better then hitting, but when he puts it the way he does, it seems almost worse. and i have done that for years. i do wonder though about when mama needs a time out to gather her self... how do you do that without your child thinking you are not loving them?

some of the other things seem pretty obvious... like forcing sorries and embarrassing a child. i think "we" do that so other parents think we are "in control" not so much as to teach our child anything, because honestly when my lo hits his bb he isn't sorry, he is mad and doesn't have the words to say so. (not the hitting is right, but you know what i mean i hope.)

h

h


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## joanna0707 (Jan 2, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onemomentatatime* 

To use an example from today: it's 5 degrees F and I'm freezing my butt off while she takes her time getting into the car seat, and my health and comfort needs her to hurry up, so I insist. There was no punishment attached, just a strongly voiced - 'I'm freezing HURRY UP!!!' But I wonder, how does she experience my insistence? As a power trip ('this person twice my size is speaking so loudly to me!'), conditional love (i.e., 'go fast or get yelled at'), or- as I hope- 'hey, my actions affect others, I don't want Mom to be cold so I better climb in faster'?

I think that it's important to respect our children's' needs but it's also important for them to learn to respect our needs, so if I'm cold and waiting endlessly for the child to climb into the car seat I have the right to say "I'm freezing, please hurry up"
*Onemomentatatime* you were not being conditional or overusing yur power, you were simply comunicating what your needs are, it's essential for children to know that needs of other people matter.

My example: dinner time - DS knows that he can leave the table when he's done eating but I will not interrupt eating, my needs to satisfy hunger are as important as his. He knows very well that whining or screaming will not work, I used to say "I'm hungry, have to finish my dinner and then we can play" and he learned to play happily alone until I'm done.


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Just reading this book, and this thread







has made me much more mindful about my parenting already. Gotta go for now, but I'm glad everyone is enjoying the book


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## unschoolinmom (Dec 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree* 
something i am curious to see if Alfie touches on, is when do we (as parents) get to put our needs first. as a pp said when you are standing the the cold and snow and you are gently encouraging the child to put a move on it and then finally it is like ... HURRY UP! i don't want my kids to see me as this meanie, but you know sometimes i just want them to move it! lol sometimes i don't want to spend 20 minutes explaining why we have to get in the van to pick up sister. just do it! i am sure this will come easier as i break old patterns. and they learn that i am not going to get all freaky and yell. that right now there will be alot of explaining on my part and alot of them learning this new way of doing things.

it truly is really a completely different way to parent. i never really thought of time outs as bad, i mean they were better then hitting, but when he puts it the way he does, it seems almost worse. and i have done that for years. i do wonder though about when mama needs a time out to gather her self... how do you do that without your child thinking you are not loving them?

some of the other things seem pretty obvious... like forcing sorries and embarrassing a child. i think "we" do that so other parents think we are "in control" not so much as to teach our child anything, because honestly when my lo hits his bb he isn't sorry, he is mad and doesn't have the words to say so. (not the hitting is right, but you know what i mean i hope.)

h

h

I had learned after this week of being sick that it IS okay for me to be selfish for myself sometimes. I have a sign on my fridge that says "The P in Parent does NOT stand for Perfect". It really helps me remember that I too have feelings that need to be met by all members of the family if we are to be a family unit.

For example, I'm doing my final paper for bio class and it's due this coming week. During all final weeks of class, I have one rule: Leave me be until you see that I'm free. No one is to bother me until I am done and then they have my full attention. Unless it's a dire emergency, my kids have learned to respect my wishes as I've respected theirs.

If we as parents (especially us moms) do not take a chance to give ourselves breaks, then we are not going to be any good to our children or family. To be good to others, you MUST be good to you too!


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

I have a question. I seem to be reading that children are inherently 'good'. I tend to agree. But, doesn't the Bible teach that people are inherently "bad'?

My personal experience has been that when I give my children the benefit of the doubt, we go much farther quicker. When I slip into the authoritarian role, we start slidding backwards in a hurry. Hmmm....as I type, I think I may be figuring it out.

The difference in non-punitive parenting seems to be that since children are 'good', they will do what is right if we just understand them and help them a bit. The other view is that they need correction because they are inherently 'bad'. Does that make sense?

If you are Christian, and this matters to you, how do you reconcile the two?

Perhaps it doesn't even matter whether they are 'good' or 'bad'. Perhaps what matters is only who I am. I am called to love, and love assumes the best, and love does not give tit for tat.

Thoughts?


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

I've read it in the past, so I will mostly just be reading the posts! Count me in.


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## unschoolinmom (Dec 23, 2009)

Dh and I read, then re-read chapters 8 and 9. I really like them. I like how he broke down the "baker's dozen" especially Don't be rigid and Don't put you no's in unneccessarily. Then understanding how to allow children more choice was great to read as well.


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## Lovin' It (Jun 7, 2006)

nakking
Just got the book and am planning to read thru the thread, but just quickly if someone could let me know what chapter is up for discussion next and when so I know when I need to catch up by. I'd like to be in on the next chapter discussion.

thanks!


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