# Friend doing Babywise...



## RunningMomTegan (Oct 20, 2009)

MY friend is sleep training her one month old. I posted earlier about it. This is her third, so she feel she's an experienced mama, which she is.

I was so upset by an email from her in response to a Ferber article I sent her, suggesting to start sleep training at FOUR to SIX months instead of one, I felt compelled to respond. Her little one is "only crying for ten minutes" and "he would only fall asleep with us holding him, which is NOT GOOD".









After I wrote what I thought was a non confrontational "hey, I am so upset I can't not say anything" email with a few links about Babywise's controversial nature attached, she wrote back the angriest email I have ever gotten. She's unfriended me from facebook, because she thinks I don't respect her, etc, etc. I expressed in the email how I think every parent needs to use a parenting style that works for them, but sleep training a one month old is an unhealthy choice.

Mamas, this sweet baby is only a month old. Was I wrong to confront her about something that literally makes me hold my child close and whisper how much I love him while I weep for this little one?


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

I think you crossed the line. How would you feel if she sent you some articles that were anti co-sleeping and then when you weren't interested, told you she was just so upset that she couldn't talk to you. Would you feel like she wasn't respecting your right to parent your child according to your judgment?

The we're all going to make our own choices. I know I have zero interest in hearing about how I need to get my child in her own bed, how I need to let her cry, she needs to learn to blah blah blah and any friend who wanted to address this with me more than once probably would find herself cut off.

Sometimes you have to take a step back and focus on your own family and let other people make their choices, even if we don't agree with them. I can totally see telling her that it upsets you and you don't want to hear about it, but I think trying to change her mind on something she's already doing is really really getting too involved. I'm sorry you lost a friend over this, but I can understand her deciding she's had enough unsolicited advice (because we've all been there). I hope it settles down soon and you can both move past this.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

I've found that talking about sleep is as bad as talking about politics or religion. Seriously, there is nothing else out there that I have found to be so controversial.

I'm sorry it blew up mama. You tried your best.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rzberrymom* 
I've found that talking about sleep is as bad as talking about politics or religion. Seriously, there is nothing else out there that I have found to be so controversial.


That is so true. My daughter was a notoriously poor sleeper and I was relieved when she finally reached an age where people just assumed she was sleeping well. Of course, she wasn't, but it was a relief not to have to talk about it anymore!


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## RunningMomTegan (Oct 20, 2009)

There is a good balance of responses here... I thought about what would happen if someone confronted me about my parenting choices. I am confident enough in what I'm chosen that I could respond with, "Thank you for caring about my family enough to ask"

I don't expect her to change, but it's the same as if someone was raving about how giving their 4-mo cow's milk was helping them STTN. I would feel the need to say SOMETHING.

Her anger is what shocked me. When truly confident in your parenting style, you should be secure enough to say, "thanks, but we're fine. I appreciate your concern".


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## RunningMomTegan (Oct 20, 2009)

To add, I don't expect to not talk to her. She is an excellent and loving mother. She uses corporal punishment and lets her kids eat too much sugar, but those are her choices to make. I only opened my mouth about a practice that has been studied extensively and shown to cause long-term harm to infants.


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## kgreenemama (Dec 31, 2008)

Just a shot in the dark here - I don't know this woman and her motives - but do you think that maybe she responded with such anger because she doubts her choices? Or that her partner is an influence in the way they parent? I can imagine being frustrated by one of those scenarios, although taking her anger out on you was unjustified, imho.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RunningMomTegan* 
There is a good balance of responses here... I thought about what would happen if someone confronted me about my parenting choices. I am confident enough in what I'm chosen that I could respond with, "Thank you for caring about my family enough to ask"

I don't expect her to change, but it's the same as if someone was raving about how giving their 4-mo cow's milk was helping them STTN. I would feel the need to say SOMETHING.

Her anger is what shocked me. When truly confident in your parenting style, you should be secure enough to say, "thanks, but we're fine. I appreciate your concern".

I hear this argument all the time when people want to defend getting into someone else's parenting business. Check around here, you will find tons of confident mamas who are just tired of being doubted, undermined, insulted, and told how to parent their children as if they have given it no thought.

I am very confident in my parenting choices and think I am the best mama I can be but there are still times I want to say OH WILL YOU PLEASE JUST BACK OFF when people won't let something go or stop with the unsolicited advice. It's insulting to have someone question your choices. Eventually it stops being kind of annoying and starts making you angry.

I know this is an emotional subject and people get passionate about it. My daughter was a terrible sleeper till she was nearly three, and even then we spent a lot of nights up. I was tired for years. I still rock her to sleep and she's four. I get thinking that letting a child CIO is all kinds of wrong and I get wanting to pass on info, but sometimes people just don't want to hear it. If someone seems hesitant or talks about how hard it is, I always say things like - don't let any expert tell you how to parent your child, listen to your instincts, etc. I will try to say things that support the parents instinct to pick up the baby and do something else. Other than that, I try to stay out of it. As the mom of a really cruddy sleeper, I know all too well what it's like to be over run with well meaning (and snarky) advice and ya know, it is sometimes just that one person too many who finally pushes you over the edge.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I guess I probably would just step back and cry silently for the poor babe. And not really want to talk to the mom either. Just as I wouldn't want to spend much time with a mom who spanked or whatever. But then I do some things some moms would consider horrible -- not making ds sit for regular meals -- and I would totally understand if they couldn't be a good friend to me for that.







to you and the other mama too.


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## PotreroHill (Apr 29, 2009)

Sleep training a one month old
















No, you were not wrong to say something







Going by her strong reaction it seems she knows what she's doing is inappropriate. I'm trying not to be judgemental here, but I can't believe anyone would think sleep training a newborn is ok. I commend you for trying to talk to her gently about it.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

You were wrong. As others have noted, many of us on mdc do stuff that others find unsafe/harmful/dangerous as well - cosleeping & not vaxing being the two biggest ones that pop into my head. I know I would not be appreciative of one of my rl friends repeatedly bringing up how unsafe/dangerous/awful it is that I don't vax & co-sleep. And then them saying they can hardly speak to me cause' they just think its awful and just want to cry for my babies everytime they think about it? I'd cut'm off too.

Its one thing to share info when people are curious/receptive. Its a whole nother' ball game when your implying that someones a bad parent because their choosing to do something that you wouldn't.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I hate Babywise, and I hate "Growing Kids God's way". But parents do as much research and thought before choosing these methods as parents who choose co-sleeping do.

She thinks she's right, and you are wrong. You think you are right, and she is wrong.

If you guys can mend the fences. (and I kinda think you owe the apology) then in a few months when her baby is sleeping through the night, and yours is still awake every two hours, she is going to get a big giant "ITOLDYOUSO!!" Because her goal is to get her baby to sleep through the night.... that isn't your goal. You have a completely different reason for co-sleeping. So, no matter what, she will never truly "get it".

"Growing Kids God's Way" teaches the child to obey the first time. Immediately. And, with a "Yes Mom" every time. I can't even imagine that! But, I had friends who did that.. I was appalled!! I was probably the only Mom in my daughter's Awana group who didn't use GKGW. All of our kids are 17 yrs old now, and all of them are awesome kids. Not one of them has problems making good choices. So, we did it differently, but our kids all turned out fine. (I still think I did it better though)


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

I'm surprised you didn't de-friend her first.


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## jimblejamble (May 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PotreroHill* 
Sleep training a one month old
















My mom actually ordered me a copy of the Babywise book when Jude was 2 WEEKS old. I have never opened it and it sits on my shelf unused but I don't want to donate it either because I don't want someone looking to it for advice. What to do?

I don't understand this idea that babies have to be on a schedule for eating or sleeping. If I'm hungry, I eat. If I'm sleepy, I sleep. I don't look at the clock and say "Hmm, nope, can't eat yet, it's not time". Why do we expect babies, whose bellies start out the size of a marble, to do this?! It's so sad!


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## Minxie (Apr 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JessicaRenee* 
My mom actually ordered me a copy of the Babywise book when Jude was 2 WEEKS old. I have never opened it and it sits on my shelf unused but I don't want to donate it either because I don't want someone looking to it for advice. What to do?


Burn it or recycle it but definitely _don't_ give it to anyone else.


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## Mirrormonkey (Jan 6, 2009)

I just sent a friend the harvard article on CIO... No response from her since.

I agree that we should keep our opinions to ourselves, I am not very good at it sadly.

Although why oh why is it ok to be told off for co-sleeping? Nursing beyond 6 weeks? Baby wearing? Not Circ'ing? Not vax'ing or delayed vax'ing? I see a huge double standard regarding these topics in my everyday life.


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## almadianna (Jul 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
I hate Babywise, and I hate "Growing Kids God's way". But parents do as much research and thought before choosing these methods as parents who choose co-sleeping do.


I actually have not found this to be true, many of them do it because their parents tell them to, or because their friends tell them to. I have not found any of them who actually have researched the pros and cons of it. Maybe some do but I dont think that it is really common. I am sure YMMV though...

To the OP. I would have said something. I have said something before and have gotten people angry at me for it as well... but I think that if I see something that causes damage to babies being done and dont say something about it... I would feel guilty. I also hope that maybe it might spark some interest in doing some research in the mind of the parent involved.


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## Dahlea (May 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 
I'm surprised you didn't de-friend her first.

For real. I would have said something too.


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## BrittneyMarie (Nov 11, 2009)

I also would've said something. I had a hard time keeping my mouth shut when a woman i barely knew from our childbirth class posted a book review on babywise saying it was "the best book ever written" and they used it since their babe was 8 weeks and now she "doesnt even cry for very long before she gives up and falls asleep" at 4 months


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## KimPM (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JessicaRenee* 
My mom actually ordered me a copy of the Babywise book when Jude was 2 WEEKS old. I have never opened it and it sits on my shelf unused but I don't want to donate it either because I don't want someone looking to it for advice. What to do?

If you have a paper shredder, rip the pages out and shred them...then recycle the shreddings. I'd hate for somebody to pull a whole copy of this book out of the recycling stack thinking it might be useful.


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## francie024 (Oct 23, 2007)

I've read a baby wise book before. People can take it or leave it.


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## pacificbliss (Jun 17, 2006)

Sleep is such a sensitive issue, I probably would have taken a different approach. If it's her third child and she has a one year old I bet she is exhausted. I would apologize and tell her you were hoping to help. Maybe see if there's somethng else you can do to help. A friend recently posted on facebook that she was going to "ferberize" her 2 month old. She was doing this while her DH was out of town so it would not disturb his sleep. In private I came unglued. I replied that I hope she finds something that works for her family. Each of her updates in the following days was from a frustrated, tired mama who got no sleep and felt awful until she finally just brought the babe to bed with her and then they slept. I suggested that may be what works for them, she talked to her DH and sure enough, he was fine with whatever worked. Now, that is a comlete 180 and a esult you can't hope for every time but I was glad i took a supportive approach. Good luck and I hope you can patch things up.


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## ~Katie~ (Mar 18, 2007)

This is such a sensitive topic, sleep takes on a whole new meaning as a mother and our empathy meter goes through the roof. It's hard to hear about this because we look at our own babies and can't envision doing the same with them.

That being said, I think I personally would have taken a different approach. I've been in a similar situation, and I'm definitely a minority in my local community. Nearly everyone I know has done CIO. One did it with both children from 3 and 7 weeks, and I won't even go into the other dimensions of their parent-child relationship that are distressing to me. Instead of feeling like I have to prove what the other person is doing is wrong and letting the situation get combustive, I try to share my personal experience and say "this is what worked for us, this is what didn't work for us" and leave it at that. I'm beyond the point of trying to understand why people choose what they do with their children, but if they really want a different way the information is out there for them to find without my help.

Now if someone were to come to me and say "help me with the sleep issues I'm having with my baby", I'd offer suggestions to them. Otherwise I try to focus on my own family, it gets exhausting when I spend too much time being concerned about what someone else is doing.


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