# Gang signs?



## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

What do gang signs mean? A sideways peace sign? then some funky other thing with the other hand, peace sign again with the pinky up too and the middle finger down? There are some new kids that visited our neighborhood this summer. I have a horrible gut feeling about them and I have tried to keep ds away from them, and ds has been sneaking out to hang out with them and getting calls at all hours of the night. Of course, since I have her phone, I am commendeering her texts. That's when I found the pics on her phone of the kids in question and herself flashing these gang signs. I told the last character who called I would track him down.


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## Alkenny (May 4, 2004)

I don't know what they REALLY mean, but I know around here they are used so frequently because they think they look 'cool', not that there's any gang activity.


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

Most kids make certain signs to imitate gang signs, the vast majority are not in gangs. For example, if you live in a "Watertown" your kid may pose with fingers in a "W"-kwim? I would not assume she was in a gang based on pics with fingers thrown. That is very, very common for teens. I would look at other sctions and activities first!


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## Neely (Apr 6, 2007)

A gang sign is something people in gangs usually do to show which gang they are in, or to convey a message without rival gangs knowing. But, as the gangster culture has gotten popular, kids who have no affiliation to any gangs flash them to look cool. I doubt there’s any real gang stuff going on, just some kids trying to impress.


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
then some funky other thing with the other hand, peace sign again with the pinky up too and the middle finger down?

Um are you talking about the index and middle finger up with the ring finger down and the pinky out? If it is what I think it is, this is about intentional, joking, vulgarity and not about gangs at all.

This hand gesture is called "The Shocker" It really caught on when I was in college and has been going strong since then.

Originally it meant a vulgar act, but since then it has gained the connotation of besting someone in a contest, especially with a suprise ending. Often in the street/drag racing world the use of Nitrous Oxide at the end of a race is referred to as "The Shocker" (indeed I have several friends with nitrous bottles with this hand gesture printed on them). In video games, often a comeback victory or a victory with hidden troops/weapons is referred to with this hand gesture. Another contextual example for this would be if you cut someone off in traffic and they flipped you off, you would reply with "the shocker" to say "Hah, didn't see that one comming did you."

Mostly it is about making a very vulgar gesture that adults don't recognize as vulgar... so I have ruined it.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

It's all pretty silly from the kids I know that are doing that, including mine. I have a picture of my Dd and some friends doing the sideways peace sign stuff, and they were "trying" to look dumb on purpose.







They are about as far away from gangster as you can get.


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## Maggie05 (Jun 20, 2003)

I will be the voice of dissent here. I would never take any sign of gang activity lightly. EVER. I don't know your daughter, only you do. You must look within yourself and determine if you have seen a change in her behavior.

Throwing signs, whether you are in a gang or not can be dangerous business.
Rival gang members are known to attack or kill each other, and "playing" gang can misrepresent who you are and get a teen into a dangerous situation.

Your surest bet is to take the photo to the police station, they have people trained in reading signs and graffiti. They will tell you if it is a gang sign or just teen age joking.


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

Also please search youtube for "white girls and gang signs" it is a spoof song about the rediculious prevalence of non-gang member suburban girls throwing gang signs on myspace.


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

Quote:

Your surest bet is to take the photo to the police station, they have people trained in reading signs and graffiti. They will tell you if it is a gang sign or just teen age joking.
I think going to the police would be a bit much. Talk to your DD.

Quote:

Also please search youtube for "white girls and gang signs" it is a spoof song about the rediculious prevalence of non-gang member suburban girls throwing gang signs on myspace.
Yep. All my teen cousins have pics like this. None are in gangs, none even know anyone in a gang.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

I saw white girls and gang signs on Youtube but even though they make it out to be a joke it is not too funny to me. We have had some recent vandalism at our local park. My teen seems to be finding all of the most dangerous parts of the internet, online gaming, blogs, people getting her phone number and crapola type friends lately. I talked with her and she had no idea about gangs. Maybe because we don't watch the news or read the paper, but maybe I should google some pics of gangs and their activity and the dangers that they are. I explained it to her, but really, she is a hands on and visual learner, so explaining doesn't go far. I don't think throwing signs should be a cool thing to do, especially when it's combined with the other dangerous activities that have been going on, like having strangers call her cellphone at all hours of the night. I called the people who called her at 1 and 2 am back at 7:30 am (when they probably would be fast asleep, he, he) and gave them a wake up call asking them not to call my daughter in the middle of the night.

She's recieved threats on her cellphone from someone who got her phone number and she doesn't know how, and while gaming online someone said they knew where she lived because they hacked into the payment center at Bungie and got her personal info. I think I should change her cell phone number. This is kind of a separate issue but my teen seems to be drawing all kinds of trouble to herself. Gang signs while they may "mean something nasty" or something is more of a relief, but still very worrysome, when you combine the other stuff that is going on with her.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

It does seem like your Dd's situation is a bit different than what I was getting earlier. For my Dd and her friends it's all just totally random and silly. They aren't involved with those things so we aren't concerned.

I hope you can help your Dd stay safe if she is involved.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

I think she finally gets it after a major going through of last months cell phone bill to show her all of the people we don't know that she's been on the phone with.

I am now thinking the gang signs were more the silly fun type of thing for them. She didn't even know what they meant. We educated her about gangs and she was like why didn't you tell me, I didn't know. I was like I am not going to tell you about every horrible thing that goes on in this world, yk?

We are changing her cellphone number and in the future she plans to only give her info. out to people she knows, so the phone calls in the night were a totally separate issue. One person she shared her phone number with shared it with a group that is prank calling, plus she has been talking to boys she has met online on xbox live at night on her cellphone. Which ain't happening anymore if she want's to keep the cell phone. Most of the cell phone calls were from out of state and the two kids I have a gut feeling about are moving in a week, so i just plan to keep her close (take her everywhere I go) until they are out of town.

Its really a totally scary world with teens and technology, when your teen isn't listening to your warnings, but I think she knows she is very close to not having a cell phone if she doesn't operate it safely.


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## Maggie05 (Jun 20, 2003)

I am glad to hear that you spoke with your daughter. You sound like a great mom.


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## DiannaK (Jul 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maggie05* 
I will be the voice of dissent here. I would never take any sign of gang activity lightly. EVER. I don't know your daughter, only you do. You must look within yourself and determine if you have seen a change in her behavior.

Throwing signs, whether you are in a gang or not can be dangerous business.
Rival gang members are known to attack or kill each other, and "playing" gang can misrepresent who you are and get a teen into a dangerous situation.

Your surest bet is to take the photo to the police station, they have people trained in reading signs and graffiti. They will tell you if it is a gang sign or just teen age joking.

I'll dissent with you ....
from the sounds of the original post, it didn't strike me as gang-related, but who knows? I'm not a gang expert!
What DID stand out to me was this ..... "horrible gut feeling about them"
God gives us intuition for a reason ... the times I've ignored my "gut reactions", I've been sorry, cause it was right!


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Yes, I was more concerned about the gang signs because I have a horrible gut feeling about them. I have made sure to keep my children away from those kids, even going to great lengths to be away from home, take the children with me when I normally would leave them at home, and to be gone with the children doing other things until they move, which is supposed to be next week. Thank God! I changed dd's cell phone number today. The kids came to the door and i told them that dd was grounded. Even though she's not. I didn't see the point in a confrontation when they will be gone in a week.

BTW, the cell phone, for ten dollars a month can add a gps (global positioning service) plus it will allow me to set limits on the times that the phone can be used. For example, dd is not supposed to use her cellphone after 10, but 17 days last month she used her cellphone after 10, and even up to 1 and 2 am, talking and texting to people (all boys) we don't know. I can set limits on the phone to shut off and be unusable after ten through this online parental control.

We have a rule that we have to meet her friends AND their parents before she can have a relationship with them. This is more difficult as they get older, and at some point in there it becomes silly, but for now, at 14, it is still needed. Meeting friends and their parents first is SO hard with online gaming. We have driven 3 hours to meet friends and parents so she can game with them, and we are going to the MLG in ORlando and meeting six or seven boys and their parents so that she can continue to game with them.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Wow we love to use our cell after 9 pm because our minutes are free then.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Yeah, I know, she had to get credit for having used zero minutes! I purchase 1500 minutes a month and the rest of us that share only use 300 so that she can have plenty of daytime minutes. Most other parents we know want calls made before 9, to us, it is a respect issue of other families.

The problem with our children is that when we did the unschooling no bedtime trial, they ate all the food, left a huge mess, and were so loud the people with jobs couldn't sleep, so the 14yr old on down in age are supposed to go to bed when we go to bed. I guess that talking quietly on the phone should be allowed except she is not supposed to develop friendships with people we don't know and haven't met. It is to protect her from online predators, mainly.

On the phone issue, fine if you are talking to people we know, we take her to homeschool groups (2!) and provide plenty of opprotunities for her to make friends irl. She seems to gravitate to talking to strangers, boys, that she has met while online gaming, and be talking and texting into 1 and 2 am with them is not safe for our particular child. not saying that a child with better judgement couldn't, but our teenager doesn't have a feel for when she is getting into trouble. Because of this I think she needs more supervision, and guidance than for example what my older son needed while online.

My dd is not even allowed online on the computer anymore, because of the dangerous stuff she was doing online on the computer. She is blocked from all the computers. My oldest son, has four computers in his room and has never had any problems.

So, nope, this child may not talk on the phone after 9 for now. And I feel like because of the way she is I have this huge job of following her around and monitoring her activities.


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## bellymama (Apr 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
What do gang signs mean? A sideways peace sign? then some funky other thing with the other hand, peace sign again with the pinky up too and the middle finger down? There are some new kids that visited our neighborhood this summer. I have a horrible gut feeling about them and I have tried to keep ds away from them, and ds has been sneaking out to hang out with them and getting calls at all hours of the night. Of course, since I have her phone, I am commendeering her texts. That's when I found the pics on her phone of the kids in question and herself flashing these gang signs. I told the last character who called I would track him down.

are you in the suburbs? do you know if the visiting kids are from the suburbs? if so, you are fine, its just regular teenage stuff...i do "gang signs" in pics sometimes to be silly...and as a suburban girl myself, i know that even if these kids THINK they are gangsters, they are not, they are just dumb kids.
now, if you live in a city, or these kids are from a city, you might want to be a little more concerned. "gang" culture is kind of passe now, and its filtered into more mainstream life...my guess is the gesture is nothing to worry about. the kids who is doing it, well, he may or may not be a good kid, but i doubt he is in a gang.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

They are all white suburbian kids, probably not in gangs, but since i have this bad gut feeling about them and a. they were out after midnight playing hide and go seek in the neighborhood with my children without our knowledge, we were in bed, but I went to check on my children and instead of being in bed, they were all outside. b. the "new kids" lied to my face and said they weren't out after midnight when I saw them. c. one told my 6 year old to lay out in the middle of the street and let a car hit her d. recent new grafitti when they are the only recent new kids e. very clingy, at first calling our house all the time, leaving like 25 phone messages and many texts on dd's cell phone when they just met. f. coming over all the time, sometimes without permission or when I have said they couldn't come over making me have to ask them to leave. g. the dad has their every minute scheduled and they have to check in with their grandma or aunt while the dad is at work every two hours where they make sure they are where they say they are, it seemed kind of wierd to schedule your kids every second, unless the parents thought that w/o it the parent thought they would get into trouble or they had been in trouble.

Combine that with my just general bad gut feeling about them, but nothing too concrete about them other than what I mentioned.


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## Pinoikoi (Oct 30, 2003)

OMG. Some of the responses in this are EYE opening.. So because we are talking about white suburban kids, that automatically means they could not POSSIBLY be in a gang? Please.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellymama* 
are you in the suburbs? do you know if the visiting kids are from the suburbs? if so, you are fine, its just regular teenage stuff...i do "gang signs" in pics sometimes to be silly...and as a suburban girl myself, i know that even if these kids THINK they are gangsters, they are not, they are just dumb kids.
now, if you live in a city, or these kids are from a city, you might want to be a little more concerned. "gang" culture is kind of passe now, and its filtered into more mainstream life...my guess is the gesture is nothing to worry about. the kids who is doing it, well, he may or may not be a good kid, but i doubt he is in a gang.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
They are all white suburbian kids, probably not in gangs...

The definition (in our school district and in many) of gangs:

an organized group of people involved in illegal activity. The often use symbols, clothing, etc to show their relationship to each other.

Demographics
"Gang activity is notably prevalent in the biggest cities (over 100,000 population) in the United States," according to research reported by the National Youth Gang Center. Between 1996 and 2001, more than 90 percent of the largest U.S. cities reported gang activity. However, between 1998 and 1999, the research shows *an increase in gang membership by 27 percent in suburban areas and by 29 percent in rural areas.* Gang membership is *no longer limited to ethnic minorities in America's inner cities, but is found in all ethnic groups, economic classes, and in rural, urban, and suburban settings.
*
When I was in college, I knew some gang members. They were all white. There are even gangs called "hybrids" which are more common where I am from- they do not discriminate by race. Most gangs, however, are usually teens to young adults that are similar race and background.

THINK about the definition, though! If some of those kids go out together and get in a street fight with other kids (their fault or not) it is considered GANG ACTIVITY. Be smart.

A recent thing happened in my town. Some high school kids went to a party. Someone got in an argument. They got kicked out. Some came back and started a fight over it. At least one had a baseball bat. They were ALL tried for GANG activity, assault, etc. And you know what? We are talking about star basketball players, drama students, one of them was a dancer in a cultural dance group. NOT kids you would think of as being in a "gang"... They had teachers, parents, coaches... all kinds of people testify on their behalf.. no go.

Wake up and smell the coffee. IF those kids are doing graffitti.. and throwing gang signs. They are in a gang. Period. If dd is throwing gang signs too, then she is in it too.

The thing I have seen MOST often.. EVERYONE always denies gang involvement- until they see the definition.. sometimes even the "gang member" themselves for awhile..

gang membership does NOT mean people hanging out on the corner dealing drugs. It CAN mean that.. but it is SO much bigger..

30 something cars have been torched in my city in the last few weeks. A few in my own neighborhood. Sure, it COULD be random vandalism.. but I bet you when they finally charge someone it will be more than ONE person- and they will have a few buddies doing it too that dress similarly and they will be charged with vandalism, arson, and gang activity, how much do you wanna bet?

Happy reading:

http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends...fining%20Gangs

http://www.iir.com/nygc/faq.htm#q1

http://www.safeyouth.org/scripts/facts/gangs.asp


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

I would think for example that inner city children are probably smarter about gangs and more educated to know better than to throw gang signs. The perception out there be it true or not, like on youtube, is that White suburban (or I would think all races of suburban kids) could be throwing gang signs just to be cool with no idea what they mean, having no previous exposure to gang activity. My daughter won't be throwing anymore gang signs once she found out what they were she was pretty upset about it. She doesn't want to be around those kids anymore which is a plus. We are kind of in almost a rural area, I've heard them call it a bedroom community. It's the farthest out without being in farmland as you can get from the main city. Yes, I wouldn't put it past my teen to walk right into any type of trouble, so I've got her on a pretty close watch right now. sigh. She's in counseling, and her attitude gets better some days then takes a dive other days. You know those kinds of kids who make their parents hair go gray? I think I've got one of those, so this is going to be interesting. So ladies, if we ever meet and you see these gray hairs, I am earning every one of them.


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

The "peace sign" with pinky up and middle finger down is a heavy metal, head-banging "rock on" thing that people use all the time. It's way overused, in fact, according to the Onion (satire, joke newspaper) - people are using it to celebrate getting the last bag of potato chips, on up to winning a round of miniature golf.

I wouldn't think gangs at all either. Bored teens who are up to no good? Sure!


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## Pinoikoi (Oct 30, 2003)

Well, best births, I am glad that you spoke with your daughter about it, and have some agreements.

I just think parents need to be more proactive about this stuff.. it really is an open ended definition, and in some places I think gang activity is considered felony material.. Hypothetically, a kid could vandalize something, and he and all his buddies could get a felony for the additional charge of gang activity.. and I think it happens more often than we know of.. schools have to be hypervigilent, and communities are starting to do it too, now.

Anyway, I just hope that everyone does some research on this subject. I had to go through gang training last year. It was eye opening. That's another thing. Students in many schools will be suspended for gang related drawings, poetry etc.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Since my children are unschooled, they would get suspended right out of the house....literally. We have a younger child who is ill and we are trying to make life less stressful for her, so it's so important to get some solutions to these teenage issues because we really don't have as much tolerance for it as we might if the situation were different. It sounds terrible, but there is a two week facility for juvey type cases where you can drop them off for just a short time, and if things get bad enough, I would consider taking her there if things kept progressing downhill. Unless I can think of some other solutions, but that is Z and we are probably on R.


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## Pinoikoi (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
Since my children are unschooled, they would get suspended right out of the house....literally. We have a younger child who is ill and we are trying to make life less stressful for her, so it's so important to get some solutions to these teenage issues because we really don't have as much tolerance for it as we might if the situation were different. It sounds terrible, but there is a two week facility for juvey type cases where you can drop them off for just a short time, and if things get bad enough, I would consider taking her there if things kept progressing downhill. Unless I can think of some other solutions, but that is Z and we are probably on R.

I was wondering about the hsing thing while I was typing.. I am glad you have options. It is also good that your dd knows that you know you have options, especially with other kiddos in the house. I tell my teen all the time that I have a responsibility to the little ones. He's over 18- my responbilities with HIM are a different ball of wax.

There is a homeless shelter for teens here, but the juvey place here only accepts criminal offenses, and only SOME of those.. I don't think it is terrible that you may consider dropping a teen off for a short time if they don't toe the line. Tough love works. And really, I have worked with teenage felons more than I care to think about (cop killers- the whole deal, but thankfully, a previous profession). Ime, it really is best to stop certain behaviors before they get out of hand, for ALL parties involved.


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

Quote:

Wake up and smell the coffee. IF those kids are doing graffitti.. and throwing gang signs. They are in a gang. Period. If dd is throwing gang signs too, then she is in it too.
An organized gang and a gang of people are not exactly the same thing. Yes, gangs are everywhere, all races, all incomes, etc. Graffiti and gangs are not always related. Gang graffiti is completely different than graffiti artists. I have lived in the inner city and the suburbs. I am familair with this all. My concern is subrubanites are jumping to the "he/she MUST be in a gang because___________" way too often these days.


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## thefreckledmama (Jun 1, 2007)

When I was a teenager (not _that_ long ago, I'm only 26) my friends and I all went through a "wanna be bad a$$" stage, where we would take pics throwing up various "gangish" signs and acting like hard a$$es-most of the guys took it especially far. The truth of the matter, the closest any of us had ever been to real gang activity or knowledge was watching "Boyz in the Hood".







So I think to say that exhibiting that behavior automatically means that a child is involved with a gang is silly and alarmist. That's not to say that 'suburban' kids never could be, but I never got that impression from the OP, even before she mentioned talking to her dd about it.

From everything else that was said about the children in question, it does sound like they might have had some behaviorial issues in the past that might have led them to be staying in the area in the first place-trying to get them away from whatever bad influences they had been around themselves. I think the OP's parental instinct about them was right on, and would think and behave in the exact same way regarding them being around my children. I hope that if and when I'm ever in a similar situation with my kids, I can handle it as well as she did.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Thanks Jaime...I feel the most insecure about the teenage years, so that means a lot!


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## Pinoikoi (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *menudo* 
An organized gang and a gang of people are not exactly the same thing. Yes, gangs are everywhere, all races, all incomes, etc. Graffiti and gangs are not always related. Gang graffiti is completely different than graffiti artists. I have lived in the inner city and the suburbs. I am familair with this all. My concern is subrubanites are jumping to the "he/she MUST be in a gang because___________" way too often these days.

Is graffitti legal where you live? Most cities it is a crime.


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

"Is graffitti legal where you live? Most cities it is a crime."

Yes, but even the PD will explain GANG graffitti is territorial, threatening, etc. Graffitti art and tags are different, albeit illegal (unless permission is given). Someone close to me tagged all over NYC-major pieces, tons of talent. These guys were seen by authorities and a nusiance, not gangs.

Funny thing is when I was high school I used to write my nickname in bubble letters with an exclamtion point at the end on all MY stuff. I sucked at it and it was bad bubbles letters-not graffitti style. Well years later some one is TAGGING all over out here my nickname with the exclamation point. Those who know me (inclusing my own Mother) have commented on it. How embarrasing. No, I am not a desperately bored wanna be tagger at age 31!


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## Pinoikoi (Oct 30, 2003)

Well, menudo, if graffitti is a crime, and it is done by people in an organized group then it is gang activity. And that is sort of my point. Is graffitti in itself fairly harmless? Yes, I mean an irrate shop owner or whatever will have to go out and repaint, but no one is physically harmed over it..

The problem I have is that the working definition for gang activity is so BROAD that a small misdemeanor for graffitti can be blown up into this big felony issue because of the organized association aspect. And really, as a parent, I am glad I know about that. Has my own teen gotten in trouble? certainly.. but I am CLEARLY going to make sure he knows what the definition of gang activity is and its implications..

The definition of gang activity is so broad that it is difficult to avoid. Until it is better defined, or there are better ways to combat serious gang activity, I don't know how it can be avoided.

I am just saying, be aware. Many communities are tightening up their belts where gang activity is concerned, but often I think regular, good kids that make a small mistake and hang out with a couple of shady characters can get caught up in this gang activity definition and felony arrest. In my neck of the woods, usually a suspect will be charged with as many violations as possible in the hopes that something will stick in court.

I really hope that a graffitti "artist" wouldn't be arrested for gang activity, tried as an adult and put in prison for it- but you know what? the possibility is there.


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## marlne (Mar 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
What do gang signs mean? A sideways peace sign? then some funky other thing with the other hand, peace sign again with the pinky up too and the middle finger down? There are some new kids that visited our neighborhood this summer. I have a horrible gut feeling about them and I have tried to keep ds away from them, and ds has been sneaking out to hang out with them and getting calls at all hours of the night. Of course, since I have her phone, I am commendeering her texts. That's when I found the pics on her phone of the kids in question and herself flashing these gang signs. I told the last character who called I would track him down.

I haven't read the other posts yet but for my daughter and her friends, they do the sideways peace sign as a "cool" way for doing the actual peace sign. (bad mom here as I "tease" her for that one.lol)
The other sign you mentioned is what they do as a "rock on" sign. (if I got your description correct)


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Thank you. I feel much less uncool now and ten years younger really!!!!







now that I know what the sign means.


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## marlne (Mar 15, 2006)

I feel like I may be losing what "coolness" I thought I had as my daughter gets older..lol


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:

I don't know what they REALLY mean, but I know around here they are used so frequently because they think they look 'cool', not that there's any gang activity.
I agree.

I would be more leary about the clothing they are wearing and if they wear a certain color t-shirt to match their friends, that kind of stuff. When we go in to the city I see groups of young boys walking and they all have on red shirts or another group and they all have on white t-shirts, etc. You can just tell.


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