# Healing the Gut Tribe: October



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

There were a couple of things I wanted to start this thread with... but now I forgot what they were.









Maybe I'll regain my brain in a day or two...up w/ DS for 3 hours last night!!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Whoops, forgot link to Sept thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=336581


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Hello there! We just got our copy of "Is This Your Child" Amazing! I think we might try the rotary diet. We will be seeing the ND Monday or Tuesday though and am hoping she has some words of wisdom. Lil' mans poops are looking more normal again, although something has bothered him today as he had blood in his stool again!!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yup that was the very first book I read that started me on this journey. When DS's eczema appeared, he had been eating rice cereal for a week or two, he got a MASSIVE yeast rash. That the Ped kept insisting wasn't yeast and px an antibiotic cream which made it worse!









I got thrush and connected all 3 problems but was continually told I was crazy, yeast didn't cause eczema. Been a long road from there...

Your poor bunny, I hope it calms down now that his poops are better. Let us know what the ND says.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Yes, it is amazing isn't it? I am so glad to find out that I am not crazy. I am looking closer into my own health and dh's health as well. I have been so stressed about all of this. I am afraid he has lost weight, he feels too skinny to me. My dh has bad problems with yeast, he has had a rash for 6 yrs, no dr. has been able to help. I didn't really think of this as a food issue until recently. He has been eating a lot less dairy though since I have gave it up and I do the cooking. I am hoping to switch him to goats milk, which maybe would be at least somewhat better. His whole family is addicted to milk and all have massive allergy issues and stomach problems.

rambling... I am wondering do any of you ladies have a problem diagnosing everyone now that you are armed with all this knowledge that so few have? I haven't been opening my mouth as I know it won't do any good but I cannot help but think about people like my nephew- extreme colic for the first year; screamed all the time, wouldn't sleep-ever, stinky-sweaty constantly, cradle cap forever, problems with constipation, very hyper, etc etc


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Does goat milk yogurt always turn out watery, like buttermilk, or am I doing something wrong? Is it because I used the ultra-pasteurized (all I could find)?

Also, has anyone tried the cheesecake from the intro diet with all dripped yogurt instead of DCCC? The DCCC I got is expensive, is only 1/2% butterfat, and when made into the cheesecake, gave it a grainy texture that ds refused. I was hoping the yogurt would have better results.

Are there some intro diet recipes out there that make it less monotonous? DS and dh are both sick of it after two days (with some cheating on all our parts, including adding banana, cooked fruit, and cooked peas).


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

I have some news that I think will turn out to be good. I've been searching for a doctor to help us with Evan's GI issues. Last week I visited a highly recommended health food store here and the owner gave me a card for a doctor she recommends. He's not a DAN! doctor but I think he can help us. I talked to him on the phone about Evan's problems, filled out a big questionaire, and we had an appointment yesterday. He agrees the root cause is gut problems, and that we have to heal his gut. He said everything I am doing so far is on the right track and to keep going with those (probiotics, enzymes, cod liver oil). He thinks we still have some unidentified food allergies and wants to do P/N testing (we only had blood and skin testing before). He knows Dr. Rapp personally and is consulting with her about DS's issues. He will also test for yeast and mineral levels, amino acids, and heavy metals. I am going to hold off on the GF trial I was planning because changes caused by eliminating gluten could confuse the results of the P/N testing especially where delayed reactions are concerned. He can do a P/N test on gluten for us though. I think this is going to be expensive for us but at least he is local (five minutes from our house !!!!!) and passionate about helping us and listens to us and knowledgeable about the areas we want help in.

On to my question.....I'm ignorant on this, can someone explain to me what is bad about pasteurization for foods *other than* dairy ? We have to be completely casein-free here, so any form of dairy is not ok for us, so he's not talking about dairy. But he said that other pasteurized foods, like pasteurized juices, could be a problem for DS. He recommended I find someplace to get raw, unpasteurized honey and start giving him that every day, and that he should drink unpasteurized juices. I understand why raw juice is obviously better for you, and I have a juicer so I can make raw juice no problem, but why would some pasteurized juice be a problem ? We aren't huge juice drinkers anyway but do have bottled juice on occasion.

Thanks !


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
Yes, it is amazing isn't it? I am so glad to find out that I am not crazy. I am looking closer into my own health and dh's health as well. I have been so stressed about all of this. I am afraid he has lost weight, he feels too skinny to me. My dh has bad problems with yeast, he has had a rash for 6 yrs, no dr. has been able to help. I didn't really think of this as a food issue until recently. He has been eating a lot less dairy though since I have gave it up and I do the cooking. I am hoping to switch him to goats milk, which maybe would be at least somewhat better. His whole family is addicted to milk and all have massive allergy issues and stomach problems.

rambling... I am wondering do any of you ladies have a problem diagnosing everyone now that you are armed with all this knowledge that so few have? I haven't been opening my mouth as I know it won't do any good but I cannot help but think about people like my nephew- extreme colic for the first year; screamed all the time, wouldn't sleep-ever, stinky-sweaty constantly, cradle cap forever, problems with constipation, very hyper, etc etc

*Re: dairy*

I belong to a raw dairy co-op, and everyone I meet tells me the same story: couldn't digest dairy, until I got raw. Raw milk is to Pasteurized dairy as Breastmilk is like Formula.

Great info on how pasteurized dairy is hard to digest, blocks absorption of calcium, etc: www.realmilk.org

Can you get him to try homemade yogurt/kefir? Cultured dairy is predigested. I especially like raw milk kefir b/c it's not heated at all and all the beneficial enzymes and immunoglobulins are completely intact.

*Re: diagnosing everybody and their brother*
Are you kidding? I'm the Queen Bee of Telling People to Heal Their Gut :LOL

That's all I post around these forums now... heal your gut, a damaged gut causes food allergies, join our tribe























I'm just waiting for someone to yell, "Stoooooooop already!"







:LOL

But seriously, it is the root cause of the explosion in food allergies and digestive disorders these days. It's sooooooo common. Your poor lil' nephew, how old is he?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Does goat milk yogurt always turn out watery, like buttermilk, or am I doing something wrong? Is it because I used the ultra-pasteurized (all I could find)?

Also, has anyone tried the cheesecake from the intro diet with all dripped yogurt instead of DCCC? The DCCC I got is expensive, is only 1/2% butterfat, and when made into the cheesecake, gave it a grainy texture that ds refused. I was hoping the yogurt would have better results.

Are there some intro diet recipes out there that make it less monotonous? DS and dh are both sick of it after two days (with some cheating on all our parts, including adding banana, cooked fruit, and cooked peas).

Yes goat's milk yogurt tends to be more watery. It's because the protein molecules are smaller than cow's milk. Generally one should try to stay away from ultra pasteurized dairy b/c it has even less nutrients, but I know it's hard to get goat's milk.

Yes, dripped yogurt is better in the cheesecake! Pain in neck though b/c it takes like 2 days between making the yogurt and dripping it. However, if you put the cheesecake ingredients in the blender and puree for a very long time, like 5 minutes you can make the DCCC smoother.

I think the intro is only supposed to last a few days anyway, I think you are done?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
I have some news that I think will turn out to be good. I've been searching for a doctor to help us with Evan's GI issues. Last week I visited a highly recommended health food store here and the owner gave me a card for a doctor she recommends. He's not a DAN! doctor but I think he can help us. I talked to him on the phone about Evan's problems, filled out a big questionaire, and we had an appointment yesterday. He agrees the root cause is gut problems, and that we have to heal his gut. He said everything I am doing so far is on the right track and to keep going with those (probiotics, enzymes, cod liver oil). He thinks we still have some unidentified food allergies and wants to do P/N testing (we only had blood and skin testing before). He knows Dr. Rapp personally and is consulting with her about DS's issues. He will also test for yeast and mineral levels, amino acids, and heavy metals. I am going to hold off on the GF trial I was planning because changes caused by eliminating gluten could confuse the results of the P/N testing especially where delayed reactions are concerned. He can do a P/N test on gluten for us though. I think this is going to be expensive for us but at least he is local (five minutes from our house !!!!!) and passionate about helping us and listens to us and knowledgeable about the areas we want help in.

He recommended I find someplace to get raw, unpasteurized honey and start giving him that every day, and that he should drink unpasteurized juices. I understand why raw juice is obviously better for you, and I have a juicer so I can make raw juice no problem, but why would some pasteurized juice be a problem ?

Wheeee! That sounds terrific! 5 min. from your house, I'm so jealous









Raw honey is awesome b/c it still contains the enzyme amalyse that digests carbs. Also local raw honey is a great preventer of hay fever b/c the small amounts of pollen in it specific to your area inoculates you. I personally had just 2 days of barely itchy eyes and a few sneezes this year, which is INCREDIBLE.

Probably he wants fresh juice b/c it contains all the enzymes and vitamins intact from the raw fruit? Once you store it, they both rapidly deplete, and if you heat it, pfffft.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Hi. Been following this thread since it started, but never managed to get in the first of the month before it blew up into a huge thread!! I tried reading as much as I could though.

So lately my 10 mo dd and I have been plagued by yeast issues. I started getting itchy cracked nipples so treated both of us with a 4 day course of gentian violet. I've also been washing them with gse and viniegar most of the time after feedings. Well now it is back and worse than before. Now I can totally see the with cottage cheesy stuff on her inside cheeks and her tongue is so raw and I am not in too good of shape either. A rash has also appeared around the diaper area. Once and a while it might look like the anus ring (but never there constantly or even more than a day). Sometimes the rash is red and she seems to be trying to itch it, but mostly it is just patches of raised bumps. No where else just diaper area and the main rash areas are where her diaper rubs. So I kept thinking it was just related to her diapers, but I know we have major yeast issues.

She was always a gassy baby. Might of had a slight reflux problem as an infant, but I think she was such a swallower that I could never tel. Her poops I am not sure since this is my first baby and no one else I know breastfed so I am clueless on normal there. Occasionally I gave her probiotics (and yes they were Baby Jarro) but not often and sometimes I just used the Adult Jarro. I use cocunut oil liberally on skin as well as with cooking. She doesn't really like it plain, and won't allow me to spoon feed her anything like yogurt or anything. How do you get coconut oil into a little one? I didn't start her on food until around 6 months and even then it wasn't much if any that actually went in her mouth. (just fruits and veggies) SHe has always liked to feed herself so I had to cut them up in little peices. I don't know it that threw digestive issues for a loop or not as some food came out like it went in







She threw up bananas around 6 months. Just gave her some today to try again, but she didn't like the taste so didn't really eat any.

I am sorry this is so long and I am rambling. My neices and nephew all have allergies and so I've been watching her like a hawk, but haven't seen any red alerts. I know I have to start a food journal and see where any inconsitencies are but it is so hard to make the time. And I know I should try and locate the books to read. Anyone have any other ideas for me to start with? Just wanted to share my story and say hello and thanks for a lot of good info.

Stacy


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## tofumama (Jan 20, 2004)

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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

hello *stacy* and *tofumama,* and welcome! I am a newbie here as well. A book that a lot of people recommend is "Is this Your Child" you can get it for $1.5 on Amazon. It is by a pediatric allergist and tells about all the signs and symptoms of allergies in kids, how to do a food elimination diet, etc. Extremely informative. I think the easiest thing to do to start is to just start writing down what you eat and how the baby acts and any possible physical symptoms and go from there. That is where we started, no have eliminated eggs, dairy, oats, and chicken; at the Lc's advice and there are still some problems; chocolate I think, we will be reevaluating in a few more days. With my lil' guy he gets a rash on his face, the bumpy rash around his anus, or just an entirely scalded butt, mucousy green watery stinky poops; sometimes tinged with blood, acts like he is on drugs- crazed out hyper- will not sleep. Different babies react differently though. Hopefully, other ladies can give you some words of wisdom as well.

*llp34,* oh, that sounds fantastic! I am jealous as well! I hope my trip to the ND turns out as well!

*Jane* My nephew just turned 4 and has some behavior issues, was almost kicked out of daycare. So they have tightened the reigns and beat him more, mil was telling me he is doing better. It is very, very sad. He still has constipation issues, of course a "healthy" meal is hotdogs and macaroni and cheese.... I just keep my mouth shut. I expect them to do the same when they disagree with my parenting.

Isn't it hard when you try to give people info but they act like you are crazy? I told this one mom how dairy allergies can cause ear infections, but she is going through with the tubes in her babies ears I don't even think he is a year old. She didn't even try to eliminate dairy, well she said she cut back in the afternoons.... It is so frustrating people think I am nuts for cutting out the food I have cut out, and my diet isn't even as restrictive as a lot of people. I always thought when you had kids you were supposed to do your best for them... it is like I have heard many ff'ers say... well, I ff'd and my baby is fine, well I don't just want my baby to be "fine"

Well ladies I found out the most interesting information last night. I was talking to mom, who is fabulous by the way, about Luke and his food issues. I always knew that I had been sick as a child. Mom told me last night that I wouldn't take solids when I was a babe. She said they ended up putting me in the hospital because I was so small and wouldn't eat, she said they acted like she wasn't trying to feed me. However, when they put me in they realized that I wouldn't eat for them either. They advised mom to keep me on the bottle as long as possible, for fear that I would starve. Oh, she also said it started with me just becoming pale and limp. She said they did all kinds of tests but never found anything. I was sick and very small until they removed my tonsils and adenoids. They diagnosed it as developmental growth delay, she said my father was very small until his teenage years- he is now 6 3.

So, I guess this is another piece of the puzzle. After reading Dr. Rapp's book I am wondering if the problems had to do with the fact that we lived in a trailer. Actually, this is reasuring though because at least 1 person irl understands that no, I just cannot wean him, he won't eat. Also, it makes me worry that there is some terrible inherited disease that has gone undiagnosed. Perhaps, we have all just had undiagnosed food allergies. I do hope to figure this all out and get lil' man well.

Oh, he has blood in his stool again! I am starting to wonder if it is just one thing that causes this, or multiple things. Friday he grabbed a clove of garlic and bit into it, he immediately got a rash on his face that lasted several hours. Now perhaps this is a dumb question, but because he got a rash on his face does this mean he is allergic to it, or it just irritated his skin? I was thinking perhaps this is what caused the blood. I will have to go back and check the timeline on all of this!

well, need to go!


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Also, has anyone tried the cheesecake from the intro diet with all dripped yogurt instead of DCCC? The DCCC I got is expensive, is only 1/2% butterfat, and when made into the cheesecake, gave it a grainy texture that ds refused. I was hoping the yogurt would have better results.

Just poking my head in really quickly.









I personally think the cheesecake is better with the dripped yogurt. That was all I had to make it at home. Here at my mom's I tried it with the DCCC and I didn't like it at all.

But yeah like Jane says it's a bit of a pain with the dripped yogurt only because it takes so long to make it. But worth it in my opinion.









On a side note: we found a great dentist for dd but she needs a lot more work than the one cavity. She needs 2 pulpotomies, 2 crowns for the teeth that have the pulpotomies, and 8 fillings. So all the work is going to be done in one sitting under anethesia.







I can't wait till it's all over and done with.

Hugs to all,
Loon


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yikes... I have lots to say so I never should have checked in til I had more time. Will be back (like you could get rid of me) :LOL

Loon,

What's a pulpotomy? a root canal? There's lots of warnings about root canals, it's impossible to clean all the hundreds of roots, and infection and cavitations results in most cases. http://www.mercola.com//article/dent...anal/index.htm

Also, I think crowns and the fillings under them can contain amalgam (mercury), it's important to check that everything will be metal free. Are they teeth that really need to be saved?


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
Friday he grabbed a clove of garlic and bit into it, he immediately got a rash on his face that lasted several hours. Now perhaps this is a dumb question, but because he got a rash on his face does this mean he is allergic to it, or it just irritated his skin?

Hi all, I haven't been on the forum much lately. I too love "Is this your Child?" by Doris Rapp-it was one of the first books I read.

I wanted to respond to crunchy mama's question. My dd has gotten hive like rashes several times. Once was after smearing SCD goat's milk yogurt all over her face-hardly eating any, but her face broke out like crazy. Then, the other night, she ate about 2 garbanzo beans, after eating her first one the night before. The same thing happened. There was a Mothering Magazine sponsored chat last week with Linda Palmer, DC, who is an expert in these sorts of things, and I got to ask a question. She said this type of response is usually IgE mediated and is what would be called a "true" allergy. In other words, this is the type of thing one might want to get an epi-pen for. She said I should not keep exposing dd to dairy in any form in my diet, as it will sensitize her even more to dairy. DD still eats very little at 14 mo and loves the breast! Also, interestingly, garbanzo beans are related to peanuts, which are highly allergenic. I'm sure the chat transcript will be posted soon (if not already) at www.mommychats.com. I'm not sure if your garlic experience would be classified the same way, but you may want to check into it further.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

thaank you so much for the info, I will definitely check into it further. perhaps that is the culprit of his blood in his stool. I will also ask the ND about this tomorrow.


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## mezzaluna (Jun 8, 2004)

another first timer...

my DS and I are pretty healthy - DH has eczema, hayfever, and chronic athlete's foot/jock itch. i keep urging him to see a natural health practicioner about it all, but it's low priority for him. any other starter tips i can give him?

a lot of babies in my mom's group are starting to get allergies, though... makes me sad, and i'm always on the lookout for what they can do to beat the allergies!

we just picked up some raw honey last weekend... i've heard honey is not safe for babies because of botulin spores... but this is local, raw honey.... i would love to give DS a little with apples for rosh hashana, but he's only almost 10 mo. any thoughts on babies and raw honey? ooo, and what about raw milk? i have a source for that too...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
So lately my 10 mo dd and I have been plagued by yeast issues. I started getting itchy cracked nipples so treated both of us with a 4 day course of gentian violet. I've also been washing them with gse and viniegar most of the time after feedings. Well now it is back and worse than before. Now I can totally see the with cottage cheesy stuff on her inside cheeks and her tongue is so raw and I am not in too good of shape either. A rash has also appeared around the diaper area. Once and a while it might look like the anus ring (but never there constantly or even more than a day). Sometimes the rash is red and she seems to be trying to itch it, but mostly it is just patches of raised bumps. No where else just diaper area and the main rash areas are where her diaper rubs. So I kept thinking it was just related to her diapers, but I know we have major yeast issues.

She was always a gassy baby. Might of had a slight reflux problem as an infant, but I think she was such a swallower that I could never tel. Her poops I am not sure since this is my first baby and no one else I know breastfed so I am clueless on normal there. Occasionally I gave her probiotics (and yes they were Baby Jarro) but not often and sometimes I just used the Adult Jarro. I use cocunut oil liberally on skin as well as with cooking. She doesn't really like it plain, and won't allow me to spoon feed her anything like yogurt or anything. How do you get coconut oil into a little one? I didn't start her on food until around 6 months and even then it wasn't much if any that actually went in her mouth. (just fruits and veggies) SHe has always liked to feed herself so I had to cut them up in little peices. I don't know it that threw digestive issues for a loop or not as some food came out like it went in







She threw up bananas around 6 months. Just gave her some today to try again, but she didn't like the taste so didn't really eat any.









Stacy! Glad you are here.

First of all you are waaaaay ahead of anything I ever did at that age... I wish I knew enough to just kept DS on fruits and veggies as his first foods. Sounds like your experience is exactly like ours, it's not food allergies but a total intolerance of food b/c of an imbalance of intestinal flora.

Coconut oil will absorb thru the skin. And giving a little one who is bf'ing coconut oil is easy, just eat a lot of coconut oil and coconut milk yourself! It comes right through by increasing the beneficial medium chain fatty acids in your milk. The standard adult recommendation is 3 1/2 T. of coconut oil/day or 10oz of full fat coconut milk. But you might want to try and take more depending on how you do. But work up to that amount, it might cause die off in you.

Actually all fats you eat as a bf mama comes through your milk too. So you should be concentrating on coconut oil, cod liver oil, butter, avocado, olive oil, and palm oil is okay too. Occasional peanut oil. No other vegetable oil. No polyunsatured oils like canola, corn, safflower, sunflower... bad stuff.

And NO trans fats, that is super bad for eczema babes, well for every baby really! They come thru your milk as well and compete with essential fatty acids in the body and block the function of the EFA's. (Sorry trans fats are a big pet peeve of mine.)

Bananas should be very well spotted with black... very very ripe. It means all the complex sugars have been converted to simple sugars and are therefore easier to digest.

What about avocado? Or very well steamed, purreed carrots or green beans. I also used to put a bit of fresh breastmilk in my veggie purees (making sure not too hot) for added enzymes. I would not recommend white potato, sweet potato, corn or other starchy things that are complex sugars (read more about below). Cooked fruits (ex. bananas don't need to be) are much easier to digest, start with pears.

Gas is the number one symptom of yeast and imbalance of intestinal flora. As far as which probiotic to use, thats a hard one, but we are following the rules from the Specific Carbohydrate Diet right now (only acidophilus, thermophilus and bulgaricus).

Start at the websites for the SCD to learn more about why this diet works to change the intestinal flora balance:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i.../beginners.htm
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i..._the_diet2.htm
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i..._the_diet2.htm

The Legal/Illegal list at Breaking the Vicious Cycle would be a good place to start as far as what are the foods that are easier to digest.
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...llegal_a-c.htm

Also the Stages at Pecanbread:
http://www.pecanbread.com/foodprep.html#beyond


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
*Jane* My nephew just turned 4 and has some behavior issues, was almost kicked out of daycare. So they have tightened the reigns and beat him more, mil was telling me he is doing better. It is very, very sad. He still has constipation issues, of course a "healthy" meal is hotdogs and macaroni and cheese.... I just keep my mouth shut. I expect them to do the same when they disagree with my parenting.

What...??? Beat? Are you serious?








The poor poor bunny. All of us mamas here aren't perfect, but boy, our kids are soooo lucky to have us to understand them. I hate to think what kind of rage your nephew is going to have in a few years.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
Isn't it hard when you try to give people info but they act like you are crazy? I told this one mom how dairy allergies can cause ear infections, but she is going through with the tubes in her babies ears I don't even think he is a year old. She didn't even try to eliminate dairy, well she said she cut back in the afternoons.... It is so frustrating people think I am nuts for cutting out the food I have cut out, and my diet isn't even as restrictive as a lot of people. I always thought when you had kids you were supposed to do your best for them... it is like I have heard many ff'ers say... well, I ff'd and my baby is fine, well I don't just want my baby to be "fine"

YES and YES!!!

The thing is that you can never take FF back 40 years later when the child develops diabetes. By that time, the fact whether they were FF is not going to be connected.

People do NOT know enough about how crucial bf'ing is. For NORMAL brain development for ex. Not to be smarter. But to get the essential fats that coat the nerves. There has been a study correlating FF with Multiple Sclerosis (a degenerative disease that causes the myelin sheath around nerves to wear away). When I told this to my dear friend with MS, did she supplement her DS's formula with cholesterol, coconut oil and cod liver oil. Nope. Because her dr. said it wasn't necessary.









Pediatric surgeons can tell which babies were FF b/c their tendons are thinner. They also have thinner skin, it's been proven by peer reviewed studies. What the heck else is FF doing to build bodies. Could thinner skin be a cause down the road for skin cancer??? Who's going to research that. There's just so many possibilities, it's mind blowing.









But people just think, "Formula is food fill my baby up." They don't think, "It's the essential components that my baby's body is going to use to build itself up." The second statement makes me shudder when I think of powdered rancid fats and heat damaged proteins in a can becoming part of a baby's body. Someday if I win the lottery, that will be the billboard message I fund!









*All disease is rooted in improper nutrition. The more I read, the more I believe this.*

Whew. Ok, breathe Jane. What a diatribe that turned into! Aaaaaaalll my pet peeves in one night! :LOL

And to your second point re: people thinking I/We are crazy

I think I'm dropping out of our local playgroup we've been in for over a year over food issues and I'm very very sad. I'm going to try to just convince everyone to bring our own food and that's that. Of course when I first mentioned this, all one mama could say, "Well my son can eat anything!" Over and over again. I'm so upset about this. If my son only had one arm, would she keep telling me, "Well my son has two arms so he can do anything!"







:

I just don't think people will ever really change unless they really have to. I know we had to make many false starts and I had to learn my lesson by being banged over the head several times, so I try to remember that and be gentle with them. Most of the time. And it's too easy in this culture to dismiss nutrition as vital to health.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
Well ladies I found out the most interesting information last night. I was talking to mom, who is fabulous by the way, about Luke and his food issues. I always knew that I had been sick as a child. Mom told me last night that I wouldn't take solids when I was a babe. She said they ended up putting me in the hospital because I was so small and wouldn't eat, she said they acted like she wasn't trying to feed me. However, when they put me in they realized that I wouldn't eat for them either. They advised mom to keep me on the bottle as long as possible, for fear that I would starve. Oh, she also said it started with me just becoming pale and limp. She said they did all kinds of tests but never found anything. I was sick and very small until they removed my tonsils and adenoids. They diagnosed it as developmental growth delay, she said my father was very small until his teenage years- he is now 6 3.

So, I guess this is another piece of the puzzle. After reading Dr. Rapp's book I am wondering if the problems had to do with the fact that we lived in a trailer. Actually, this is reasuring though because at least 1 person irl understands that no, I just cannot wean him, he won't eat. Also, it makes me worry that there is some terrible inherited disease that has gone undiagnosed. Perhaps, we have all just had undiagnosed food allergies. I do hope to figure this all out and get lil' man well.

That IS very interesting about your history. You really went through a lot. But then again, formula is not easy for any baby to digest.

I often think if the fact that I was raised on the horrid homemade formula recipe of Carnation evaporated milk and Karo syrup doomed me to horrible digestion. Although I was a peaceful happy baby. And I never really had a lot of major stomach problems as a kid, I ate everything. But enough to call my stomach sensitive maybe. The really bad symptoms started when I got massive dental work done 10 years ago, and then again with several months of 3 different antibiotics right before I got pg.

And I wonder how many food allergic kids had moms with thrush problems, it seems to be a common theme lately.

I don't know about genetic food allergies but there's some evidence of it. The Weston Price/Nourishing Traditions theories are that you are best suited to a diet of your ancestors b/c that is what your body is going to be programmed to digest. I'm Irish/Portuguese, so I guess dairy, grains and fish.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mezzaluna*
another first timer...

my DS and I are pretty healthy - DH has eczema, hayfever, and chronic athlete's foot/jock itch. i keep urging him to see a natural health practicioner about it all, but it's low priority for him. any other starter tips i can give him?

a lot of babies in my mom's group are starting to get allergies, though... makes me sad, and i'm always on the lookout for what they can do to beat the allergies!

we just picked up some raw honey last weekend... i've heard honey is not safe for babies because of botulin spores... but this is local, raw honey.... i would love to give DS a little with apples for rosh hashana, but he's only almost 10 mo. any thoughts on babies and raw honey? ooo, and what about raw milk? i have a source for that too...









Rosemary!

The best thing your husband could do for himself is eat homemade yogurt or kefir everyday. I really like kefir made w/ raw milk b/c you don't have to heat it at all, and all the benefits of raw stay intact. It's easier to make than yogurt too. I use this powder:
http://www.mercola.com/forms/kefir.htm
(It says it makes up to 42 qts. but really you can make 42 gallons or even more by dividing your first batch into other batches and then going seven times from each one. There are 6 envelopes that start a batch.)

But you can get live grains too. http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

Did you know raw honey is good for hay fever? Did I mention this in this thread or another one...









Not sure of the practices for Rosh Hashana, whether it's important to be raw, but you could cook the honey for your babe if you are worried.

Raw milk is excellent and very safe... it's like breastmilk in that it contains immune factors and enzymes and probiotics that destroy harmful bacteria. If the dairy farm is clean and well managed, I think raw milk is one of the best health foods there is.
www.realmilk.org


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Sara









Just saying Hi! I've been wondering how you and Jasmine were doing...


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mezzaluna*
we just picked up some raw honey last weekend... i've heard honey is not safe for babies because of botulin spores... but this is local, raw honey....

Neither pasteurized or raw honey is safe for babies under 1 yr old. Pasteurization does not kill the botulism spores anyway, so it doesn't matter whether it's raw or not. A baby's digestive tract is not acidic enough to contain a botulism spore that tries to go active, so they can get botulism from it. Older kids and adults should be acidic enough to handle it. There are health conditions and drugs though - anything that reduces stomach acidity - that make botulism from honey or corn syrup a risk for older kids and adults too.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Not sure of the practices for Rosh Hashana, whether it's important to be raw, but you could cook the honey for your babe if you are worried.

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/mo...ods.html#honey

Honey has to be cooked at 240 F (in a pressure cooker) for at least 15 minutes to kill botulism spores. They are very heat-resistant.


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## mezzaluna (Jun 8, 2004)

ah well, better safe than sorry on the honey... i was hoping people would say that botulism was only found in factory farmed bee honey, or that raw honey has some protective factors against it... but we can wait to next year...

i have yogurt several days per week, and kefir once in a while... perhaps i need to start fixing my dh yogurt snacks more often until he gets addicted







one of my favorite snacks is a bowl of plain yogurt with nuts, frozen berries and honey or maple syrup or molasses.

i've known about the honey/hayfever thing for a while, but DH just learned it from me last weekend









i like the idea of making kefir from raw milk! thank you for the links!


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
What's a pulpotomy? a root canal? There's lots of warnings about root canals, it's impossible to clean all the hundreds of roots, and infection and cavitations results in most cases. http://www.mercola.com//article/dent...anal/index.htm

Also, I think crowns and the fillings under them can contain amalgam (mercury), it's important to check that everything will be metal free. Are they teeth that really need to be saved?

Jane,

The crowns are stainless steel, and the fillings are all composites. This dentist does not use amalgams.

The teeth do need to be saved. They are her molars, as those will be the last to come out. Two others are her canines, which have deep grooves near the gumline.

Yes, a pulpotomy is a "baby" root canal. Only a portion of the tooth is removed. An "adult" root canal would be removing the root.
At least one is definitely necessary because the cavity has gone down to the gum. The other is most likely, but we will check the dental xrays; those will be done under anesthesia, too.

Quote:

In pulpotomy, all of the coronal pulp tissue is removed from the crown (visible portion of the tooth above the gums) but the pulp tissue in the root canals remain. This is different than pulpectomy in which all of the pulp is removed from both the root canals and crown.
http://www.dentalfind.com/glossary/pulpotomy.html

Thanks for the info you provided. I appreciate all that I can get!

Loon


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Welcome, new mamas! We are doing remarkably well on the SCD and I have actually convinced two other families to start as they have seen our progress. I met with two other moms this morning that sound like they are going to take the leap as well. It's so exciting to facilitate positive change! I re-introduced carrots and avacados and we are going strong. I am seeing great progress. I also made yogurt for the first time and MAN was that easy! I have no idea why I waited so long. I am liking the diet alot myself, I feel like I'm much more adventurous in the kitchen and I'm making some really yummy things. Last night I made an SCD pecan pie and it was quite good. Totally satisfies my residual sweet cravings! How many mamas have converted their families? Are you doing the diet yourselves or just changing for the kiddos? Dh is starting *officially* today. He has major issues and it was a huge step to get him to start. I won him over finally by telling him it would be cheaper if we were all eating the same thing. Simplifies everything and it's only one meal to have to prepare. Plus, you save alot by eliminating refined stuff. I'm hoping to see lots of progress with him. Then we can be a poster-family for gut health


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Just saying Hi! I've been wondering how you and Jasmine were doing...

Hi Jane,

Jasmine has had some kind of cold/crud that seems to be going around here. Her fever got up to 104 and dh said to take her to MD so we did, and one of her ears was infected. They prescribed antibiotics, but luckily she didn't want to take it so dh went along w/ my decision not to give them. So I tried the garlic/mullein ear oil and Hyland's earache tablets, plus took her to a chiro who adjusted her "axis" which was out which can supposedly cause ear infections. She was doing better but today has been pulling on her ears again.. of course, she is teething too... I'm just hoping the mucous clears up soon!

Thanks for asking.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/mo...ods.html#honey

Honey has to be cooked at 240 F (in a pressure cooker) for at least 15 minutes to kill botulism spores. They are very heat-resistant.

Yikes, that's very concerning since the test is that a mature gut has the acid to neutralize it... and we are dealing with damaged guts here.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loon13*
Jane,

The crowns are stainless steel, and the fillings are all composites. This dentist does not use amalgams.

The teeth do need to be saved. They are her molars, as those will be the last to come out. Two others are her canines, which have deep grooves near the gumline.

Loon

Loon, I can sympathize









We just found out today - took Evan to the dentist for another cavity we can see - that he has weak enamel, that his top baby teeth didn't form right, and we are going to be fighting cavities until he gets his adult teeth







She said this has nothing to do with diet or brushing - she can see that the enamel on the top teeth is just weak. His bottom teeth are fine and his gums are fine.

He has already had two fillings in top molars, and tomorrow he has to get a crown on a molar. When she showed me the inside of the tooth with her mirror, I felt so bad - it is all crumbling away







.

It is all non-mercury - this is a pediatric dentist who does not use any mercury in his practice. Still I feel so bad that a 2.5 yr old has to go through so much dental work.

Linda


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

: Pecan pie!!?? I wish I lived near you. You'd share wouldn't you?







Where'd you get the recipe?

I never make stuff like that just for myself. DH wouldn't do the diet in a million bazillion years even though he has digestive issues too.

Tonight I had a yummy dinner... roasted butternut squash cubes with sage, olive oil and butter. Fresh rosemary chicken sausage patties. And spaghetti squash with parmesan cheese.







I'm loving spaghetti squash lately.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Re: teeth and cavities

I was just reading at Mercola.com about Vitamin D and how vital it is in order to absorb any minerals at all. Then of course, thinking about Weston Price's rec for cod liver oil and high vitamin butter, makes sense.

How's everyone's D level?

We have high vitamin butter from our raw co-op, it's so yellow it's practically orange. But I've not given it to DS b/c of the dairy issue. That is until this week. Yup, I couldn't take it any longer, I'm just going for it. Butter only for now. He seems to be fine. Of course he is finally up to 3 Peptzyde enzyme caps a day too.

He's probably not even allergic to dairy and I'm just being a dolt. I just couldn't figure it out together with all his other reactions.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yikes, that's very concerning since the test is that a mature gut has the acid to neutralize it... and we are dealing with damaged guts here.

I think it's actually the stomach acidity that matters for honey. I thought most of the issues here are more lower intestinal issues ?

Linda


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Sarah,
I hope your little bunny recovers quickly... how long can you use garlic/mullein? We've never had to deal with an EI yet, been very lucky on that front.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/23/vitamin_d.htm
http://www.mercola.com/2005/oct/4/te..._vitamin_d.htm
http://www.mercola.com/2004/mar/13/vitamin_d.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
I think it's actually the stomach acidity that matters for honey. I thought most of the issues here are more lower intestinal issues ?

Linda

Yes, but low acidity is pretty common too. Wonder how you can check a kid for that?

Good luck to you and Evan tomorrow!!!


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
Loon, I can sympathize









Thanks, Linda. And hugs to you for Evan.









Our dentist said she wasn't going to tell me to stop weaning nor was she going to tell me something like not to give dd candy. She believes all we can do is maintain good brushing habits and, when possible, rinse the mouth with water after eating. Her own children have had work done.

<sigh> I believe genetics play some factor. But I also believe nutrition can only help.

elisabeth, what great progress!!! I can't wait to get home and get started again. I was planning to do only for myself and dd, but he saw our progress when we were doing it at home, and he is willing to join in when we get back.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loon13*
<sigh> I believe genetics play some factor. But I also believe nutrition can only help.

A must read book:

"Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Weston Price, DDS

http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

ok, giving an update real quick; we went to the ND today. She seemed to be fairly knowledgeable about leaky gut and all that. She however wasn't aware of the SCD, or raw dairy.

her suggestions were to;

1) stop solids for Luke for a month - 3 month and see how his gut is, at this point he only eats 1-3 T a day and it always comes out exactly how it comes in
2) continue for me to give up the dairy, and also cut out chocolate and carbs; breads and pasta- stick to whole grains
3) she gave me some supplements; Biogest, All-Flora, Formula SF722, and PermaClear
4) try to make sure my food is as close to the natural state as possible
5) continue with cod liver oil and up the dosage

So, we are trying to heal my gut and the yeast and giving lil' man's gut a break from solids. I think I am fairly happy with this plan. Although, I think I am definitlely going to look into the SCD more. She wants me to make sure I get plenty of protein and fat, not to skimp on anything.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

oh, *Jane,* yes, the in-laws do spank my nephew, it is very sad, they have also force fed him food, because he refuses to eat
That is interesting about Vit D, I had never heard that. We should be doing ok, especially with upping the dosage of CLO

*elisabeth-* that is great you are converting people! we haven't told dh's family about any of this, they would sure enough think we are crazy! I am hoping to get dh on board though and help clear up his yeast issues. His family could sure use a total diet makeover though! His mom has fibromyalgia, acid reflux, etc; very poor shape, his sister also has terrible digestive issues, of course she was on bc pills for 10+ years, it is very, very sad and my niece will undoubtedly have the same issues; ff from day one, same age as Luke and being fed cheetos and dr. pepper.....

oh, and I forgot the nd seemed to think it was more of the leaky gut than allergies really, which I guess is my thoughts as well. She wanted me to concentrate on cutting out my major cravings; dairy and chocolate; the lc had thought that eggs and chicken were issues as well; I hadn't really suspected those things, the ND wasn't concerned about those, so I believe I might add those back in my diet, but will be leaving the oats out for now. I also think I will be cutting out beef because I am fairly well certain that it is was causing blood in his stool as after eliminating most everything else I suspected but that and then it occurs. She really wants me to make sure I am getting enough calories as I will be exclusively nursing him and trying to heal myself; of course he is already 99% bf. She did say that bm was the absolute best thing for him. The only thing that made me question her is when she asked if we were making sure to retract and clean lil' man's penis; I promptly told her no and that is very, very bad, I am thinking of bring some info to her on the care of an intact penis,,,, but I digress.....


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

*loon* and *Linda,* I feel sorry for both of your babes! I sure hope they get through their procdures as quicly and easily as possible.

Oh, and it is intersting to read abut the honey and hay fever; atlhough I don't know a source for raw honey, I will have to keep my ears open.


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## gracemommy (Oct 5, 2005)

Hi -

I'm new to this forum today. I am currently trying to manage my daughter's eczema. She is 8 months old now and we have been battling for 6 months or so, her cheeks have been quite bad at times. I already have her on probiotics (Culturelle & Threelac) but am wondering if they are the right kinds... also, very interested in enzymes but not sure where to get them? Can anyone help me with specific product names? I also have her on Nordic Naturals Berry Keen cod liver oil. I am still nursing and plan to go to at least a year.

I am truly on board with the whole idea of "healing the gut" to lead to better, even great health for our babies!

Thank you, in advance!

Grace's Mom


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Oooh, so exciting to see all the new mamas since I last checked in. I couldn't keep up with all the new names as I caught up on posts from the last week. Welcome







to all of you and glad to have you in the tribe.

Jane - Thanks for starting the October thread







:. You know things have gone south for us. Maybe you could get directlabs.com to at least order the urine neurotransmitter test for you if you're really curious. My ND is such a proponent of this testing that she might be willing to work with you over the phone if you couldn't order the test through directlabs.com. Let me know cuz I'd be glad to talk to her for you.

Elisabeth -







for making the yoghurt. I knew you could do it







! It's incredible that you're sharing your good news with your friends. I need to make a trip up to MA to go camping and meet Jane/Luke along the way. I think I might make a detour in CT to place a face with a name too.

Sarah - Good to hear from you again







.

We went upstate to a fair this weekend and I met the coolest man who is a beekeeper. His honey with garlic and red pepper flakes first attracted DH and I.







We were eating it straight on crackers - oink oink. I then discovered that all his honey and pollen is completely raw. Pollen or cloudy honey is irritating to a damaged gut and therefor illegal according to BTVC site. Bummer. He ships and is located in PA. I found his prices to be quite reasonable. www.911honey.com
We just finished two weeks of vomiting hell. Yesterday was the worst as she literally brought up everything she ate during the day which was not very much at all. I had taken her off SCD two weeks ago to try glyconutrients. They resolved a good friends motility problem (I think Sierra has a major motility problem with her stomach which caused the dysbiosis) so I had to give it a try since SCD does not help with motility and the bugs will stay if the gut is not contracting to mix the food with HCL and enzymes. These were full of disaccharides so we went off the diet and ate according to NT. Well, two weeks of not eating and vomiting was not fun and the glyconutrients take at least 2 months to work. They feed the cells and just give your body the nutrients it needs to repair itself. Sierra could not have gone two months. We went back on the SCD today and cut out all her supplements except her MVI, CLO, and CA. She vomited 6 or 7 times yesterday. NO VOMITING today and she ate about 3 times what she did yesterday. We're going to add the supplements back in one at a time and space them 3 days apart. Colustrum will be the first to be added back in.
We found a doc in Long Island that specializes in the motility issue I think Sierra has. I had to call all over the country to find him and was actually referred to him by a doc in Ohio. It's crazy that he is the only one I could find in all NYC! I don't want to go to an MD, but if she has nerve damage to her stomach we must treat that. We'll continue with the chiro.
I'm perplexed by the fact that Sierra vomited so much yesterday and nothing today despite the fact that I'm giving her most of the same food. I know that she vomits undigested food that she ate 8 -10 hours previously, but has soft bm everyday. I don't understand how SCD could improve motility that quickly. Hmm. Any ideas. Pleasantly perplexed







.

Peace,


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

ok, I have been reading the SCD site, this seems to go along fairly close to what the ND recommended, stay away from the carbs! I had always thought that as long as they were whole grains they were ok, but ND said no, and it seems that SCD site is saying that as well. I thought it would be good to have some nice grains such as amaranth for breakfast, but I guess that is out.

I am confused though, should I do the diet? Right now Luke is off of solids, breastmilk only. I don't really have the strong symptoms like he does, just think I could feel better and is likely some unrecognized issues. It says if you have diarrhea or bad gas to not eat certain foods, does that mean I can skip that step. Plus, we are not doing dairy, so I am confused by that as well. And one more question while I am asking, the digestive enzymes and such I am taking, will that help him? I am assuming it will be passing to him as well. I don't know if I am understanding this anymore or not. Today I really struggled in the kitchen trying to figure out what to cook, so I ate a whole lot of turkey, as I had cooked a turkey breast.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

crunchymama, that is so terrible about your nephew, don't you just want to take him and hold him sometimes? I get so mad when I see others hitting their kids, I feel like, hey, I'll take your kid if you don't want him/her! Anyway, as to whether to go on the diet, yes, especially if your ds is still even partially bf, because everything you eat goes right into the bm, especially if you have a leaky gut (which most Americans have, IMHO).








to all for your stories and your help with all this. I finally got my copy of BTVC in the mail (I had gotten it used and chose the slow mail for shipping), and also read on Pecanbread what to introduce when, and realized that we may have to go back to the intro diet for a day or two because I'd been introducing too many things too soon, like peas and beans. Ugh!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Jane-the recipe for pecan pie was off an SCD site-can't remember which one but I will have to post the recipe for you. It was very simple. Just pecans, a bit of yogurt, honey, butter, eggs and vanilla. Then you bake it with no crust. It was delicious!
Moneca-I'd love to meet you and Sierra! Let me know when you're coming through. The yogurt was sooooo easy. I feel silly








Has anyone here read any of Joel Fuhrman's stuff? This is my issue. I came to this forum after completely changing my diet due to reading Eat to Live . I really believe in his theories. They are compatible to SCD, and we have adapted pretty well. I got his new bookisease-Proof Your Child yesterday and I'm about halfway through it. I feel so conflicted. For those of you who don't know him, he is a family practitioner in NJ who has successfully reversed all kinds of auto-immune diseases through nutritional healing. He has also had great success with allergies, asthma and bowel conditions. The only major place his "diet" deviates from SCD is that he doesn't believe that humans were meant to consume dairy. And I'll tell you what, he makes a very strong, scientific case. I go back and forth between him and Jordan Rubin and I get so muddled. Just wondering if anyone has read his stuff and how they are integrating it into this diet. For now, I'm just doing minimal dairy (obviously only what's allowed) but I think I may have to really reconsider. I'm planning on speaking to him tomorrow afternoon, and then see where I stand.
Crunchy mama-yes. If you are nursing you should do the diet. I know at least for me I was passing allergies down to my kids because of my own leaky gut. Healing myself is imperative in healing the kidlets.


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## tofumama (Jan 20, 2004)

I LOOOVE E2L. I totally believe in his theories...however, I eat yogurt and kefir. We eat some 'real' cheese. Other than that we are vegetarians. I really think when it comes to things like this, you need to follow your instincts. I feel the benefits of the yogurt/kefir outweigh the 'risks' for my family and we aren't reacting to it so...I think you need to take what you need and leave what you don't (within reason, of course) Just my fwiw


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Crunchymama - Yes, you have to do the diet if you're still breastfeeding Luke. I skipped the intro initially because Bear never had diarrhea and read this the same way as you did. The 2-5 days on the intro diet (2 days is enough for kiddos and make sure you get enough fat since you are bf) is for jumpstarting your body in killing off the bacteria and yeast.

Elisabeth - I do agree with the author regarding pasturized and homogonized dairy products. Does he discuss raw dairy and goat? I'm really starting to believe that anytime man alters food it should not be eaten. Bear and I only eat raw cultured dairy products. We know the value of raw and culturing makes it more easily digestible and increases nutritional value not to mention adding omega 3s. Both of us now love the raw goat 24 hour yoghurt plain without additives.

This is our second day back on SCD. All is still well. The past couple of weeks Bear had been taking 1 to 1 1/2 hours to fall asleep for her nap. She would just sit in her crib and play. It took her an hour on Tuesday and then yesterday was down to 30 min. Today she fell right to sleep. This is so intriguing. I will figure all of this out and I am sending the good sleeping fairies to Jane's house







. Right now I'm just amazingly thankful







that my Bear feels so much better







.

Peace,


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## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

hi i'm new to the tribe









my son max has been battling eczema since around 3.5 months (he's 10 months today). we've tried all kinds of things (if you'd like more info, i've been keeping a record of our journey, click on the Jessica link, i'm just too tired to write it all out again right now







) and some have helped more than others, but ultimately, we know that we haven't found the key. i've been focusing my efforts of max, and healing him, but within the past few days, i've started treating myself with what we're giving him (DF bifidus and permeability factor) because i suspect that i have some leaky gut issues. then i ran into elisabeth at playgroup today and she told me about all the gut healing work they've been doing and told me about this tribe.

i'm pretty beat today, but still inspired to try to gather info and get serious about healing our guts. i want to *eat* again! i'm feeling overwhelmed (as i often do when following new leads







) but am going to try to go over the september thread and follow all the links to scour the sites, etc.


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## LEAW (Aug 5, 2004)

Hi









Trying to read some of the old threads and learn more..

Dd is 8.5 months, no solids yet (one or two tries), I did TED and found she reacted to dairy, soy, garbanzo beans, pork, citrus, all melons, all red berries, and peanuts (at least so far that's what we know, I'm still adding foods...)

I had abx during labor, never made it to fullblown thrush although I had some symptoms, she had none.

Reactions to foods I eat include huge amounts of ear wax, spitting up (she's on prevacid for reflux too), red diaper rash, ring around anus, screaming, congestion, inability to poo.

My mother and her mom have dairy/egg allergies, my FIL has a seafood allergy. I wasn't given any dairy until 14 months (ebf) so I don't think I had the exposure to have the allergy (mom didn't consume dairy while bf).

Dh and I have histories of chronic ear infections/tubes, although we both have no known food allergies.

The more I read, the more I learn, the more it all makes sense yet I can't explain it to someone and I can't fix it. SO I'm hoping you guys can help out!

At the moment dd and I are both taking probiotics (jarrow baby for her, another brand for me), I'm avoiding those foods she reacted to, and we're eaglerly waiting to start solids BUT the few times she's had some she either throws it all back up 1-2 hrs after eating or doesn't poo for a week, both of which I qualify as reactions. She's had apple, pear, cucumber, and avocado.

Teething, crawling, pulling up, generally frustrated, not sleeping well (either of us) nursing every 2 hrs at night and every hour during the day. The reflux seems mostly controlled with the meds and limiting my diet.

Help!


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

Subscribing









I was wondering what all you mamas cook with as far as pots and pans and crockpots. There was a thread here about some Rival Crockpots containing "low or safe" levels of lead in the ceramic glaze.

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...rival+crockpot

We still use ours, though, because I haven't been able to find anything else. My mom just got brand new stainless steel copper bottom pots because I was telling her about aluminum pans and how they are not good for your health. Are these good to cook with? I've discovered that I am really not missing the nonstick pans all that much anyway.

We're sort of struggling here and somehow having AF just screws everything up and I can't eat well. But we're trying.... I am so amazed at the willpower and strength all of you have to eat so well. Even though I know everything I eat goes straight to my baby I still find it hard every single meal of the day and every single day.

I read this thread every day for inspiration, you are all such good mamas!








Liane


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## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

are there any vegetarians trying the SCD diet? i was skimming the legal/illegal list and while i'd like to try it, between not eating meat and the foods max tested reactive to, there's not much left. most of the foods on our safe list are illegal.









here's our list of 'reactive' foods:
apple
avocado
bean, green
bean, yellow wax
broccoli
brussels sprouts
cabbage
cauliflower
celery
cherry
coconut
cranberry
eggplant
garlic
grape
grapefruit
lemon
lentil
lettuce
lime
oat
onion
orange
papaya
parsley
pea
peach
peanut
plum
radish
strawberry
tangerine
wheat
egg whites
cow's milk
barley
soy


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Jessica and Lisa welcome to the tribe







. Glad to have you







.

Liane - We all struggle and I too find this thread encouraging







.

Jessica - Too cool that you and Elisabeth are in the same play group. You have quite a list of reactive foods







. I would suggest going back to the legal/illegal list on BTVC and writing down all the foods that you can have instead and deciding if you can make a go of this. That may be less discouraging than having the "no" list in front of you. You MAY also find that you and Max tolerate some of the forbidden foods as you progress on the diet and your guts start to heal. Elisabeth had also been struggling with this issue as Selkie also has quite a list of forbidden foods.

Lisa - My dd also vomits. I wanted to caution you about using prevacid. The docs put Bear on pepcid and then prevacid before doing a test to confirm reflux. Ended up that she didn't have reflux and the drugs just made her digestion worse. I stopped both on my own after two weeks. I later found out that decreasing the stomach ph can prolong digestion and gastric emptying because you need an acidic ph to digest your solid foods. Decreasing the stomach ph also creates a favorable environment for the bad bacteria as it is much harder for them to survive in stomach acid. I'm not saying not to use the prevacid, but to be careful because it could be helping with one thing at the cost of another.
Dd use to vomit 1-3 hours after eating so many things that I was convinced she was allergic to everything (dairy, soy, gluten, potato, eggs, avacado). I kept both of us on a rotation/elim diet for months with no progress. I was SO confused and frustrated. I started her on the SCD and found that she tolerated all (I didn't give her soy) the foods that I thought she was having reactions to. I still have not figured everything out, but she is much better. You can look at the September thread that has a link to her journey on the first post. I think that hers is the last one listed.

Nordic Naturals CLO lists 100% natural orange oil as an ingredient instead of "essence" of strawberry or peach as some of their other products do. Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I would consider this legal and will continue to give it to Bear.

Peace,


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Well, I just received copies of Nourishing Traditions and Wild Fermentation.
I warned dh last night that our diet is about to radically change! :LOL
Any suggestions as I embark on this long read/journey?


----------



## LEAW (Aug 5, 2004)

Moneca, yes, I've had the same thoughts on the prevacid (we were on pepcid first too) and I really want to try weaning her from it. BUT she was screaming in such pain without any meds, not just throwing up, and it's helped. Bear is a year older than Lauren, at what age did you start/stop meds?

I've been deliberately holding off on solids because of her reactions and knowing that there is less acid... and after the few bites we've tried, I'm glad we're waiting. I'm able to ebf her until 1 year if need be.

What do you guys on SCD eat for junk food/snacks?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gracemommy*
Hi -

I'm new to this forum today. I am currently trying to manage my daughter's eczema. She is 8 months old now and we have been battling for 6 months or so, her cheeks have been quite bad at times. I already have her on probiotics (Culturelle & Threelac) but am wondering if they are the right kinds... also, very interested in enzymes but not sure where to get them? Can anyone help me with specific product names? I also have her on Nordic Naturals Berry Keen cod liver oil. I am still nursing and plan to go to at least a year.

I am truly on board with the whole idea of "healing the gut" to lead to better, even great health for our babies!

Thank you, in advance!

Grace's Mom









Grace's Mom!

As far as probiotics go, that's a hard question to answer. I do think Culturelle is very good and well studied... and actually Elaine Gottschall of the SCD said L. casei is okay. The Threelac one I know less about... does it include a beneficial yeast? I just hate the MLM part of Threelac, so all their information is not indepedent, makes me wary.

DS was on Kirkman's acidophilus but changed to this Source Naturals one
http://www.sourcenaturals.com/produc...410.html?email

Karen DeFelice of www.enzymestuff.com recommends Houston's trio:
Zyme Prime - all around enzyme for carbs, fats, proteins
Peptizyde - for proteins, including casein and gluten
No Phenol - for breaking down cell walls of fruits and vegetables

http://www.houstonni.com/

Also Thropp's Elite-Zyme Ultra instead of Houston's ZP, b/c it's cheaper by the case especially
http://www.throppsnutrition.com/ps_ElitezymeUltra.htm

DS is on all 3 Houston's. We had to work up to it for the past 5 weeks. To be honest, I don't think I'm seeing fantastic results here that I expected.









Enzymes for me have been terrific however, and I'm on an el-cheapo one:
http://www.sourcenaturals.com/products/GP1111.html


----------



## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Zanelee - You're about to dive into such a world of knowledge







! Both books sit on my kitchen counter with other cookbooks that I no longer open. Just soak it all in and don't get overwhelmed. Attempt one new item at a time. Just so you know, there is a monthly NT thread in the nutrition forum. Happy reading







.

Lisa - I can't imagine how hard it was to listen to Lauren scream in pain







. You know as her mama what she does best with. I was in a different situation since I saw NO improvement and actual worsening with the meds. We were only on each for a period of two weeks. I believe in my heart that BF is the best thing for these little ones because BM is so healing. I would still be BF if my stress level had not turned the BM to water. If you start SCD yourself and supplement with a good quality CLO, you may see changes in Lauren. If you can't do dairy there is an acidophilus supplement that Kirkman makes www.kirkmanlabs.com that is legal and will give you the probiotics you need.

Peace,


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Moneca,

Good luck with that new MD please keep us posted. Do you have an appt? I think it makes sense that you utilize their experience as well. I really really hope he will be one that is open to your questions and your nutritional efforts.









That is the same change you noticed when you first tried SCD isn't it? Immediate improvement of symptoms. I know nothing about motility, so I can only assume b/c it's food that is easier to digest?

Hang in there mama


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
ok, I have been reading the SCD site, this seems to go along fairly close to what the ND recommended, stay away from the carbs! I had always thought that as long as they were whole grains they were ok, but ND said no, and it seems that SCD site is saying that as well. I thought it would be good to have some nice grains such as amaranth for breakfast, but I guess that is out.

I am confused though, should I do the diet? Right now Luke is off of solids, breastmilk only. I don't really have the strong symptoms like he does, just think I could feel better and is likely some unrecognized issues. It says if you have diarrhea or bad gas to not eat certain foods, does that mean I can skip that step. Plus, we are not doing dairy, so I am confused by that as well. And one more question while I am asking, the digestive enzymes and such I am taking, will that help him? I am assuming it will be passing to him as well. I don't know if I am understanding this anymore or not. Today I really struggled in the kitchen trying to figure out what to cook, so I ate a whole lot of turkey, as I had cooked a turkey breast.

The issue with whole grains is that they are rarely completely digested b/c of the phytate issue. What is not digested, ferments in the intestines and becomes food for the bad bacteria. If you have a healthy gut, the good bacteria keeps the bad in check. If not, it just perpetuates the "vicious cycle".

If you know you have yeast issues or digestive problems, it will be easier just to commit and do this diet now. I know it's hard, I've lived the long way around for the past year and a half... trust me... I wish I knew about this diet a LONG time ago and just did it then!

Also, the health of your gut will effect your breastmilk. If probiotics are in BM, I'm sure the bad bugs are too.

www.Pecanbread.com is the dairy free version of the SCD

I don't know if enzymes will pass on to him. Maybe they will b/c they do go into the bloodstream. But they will improve your leaky gut, b/c they will help digest food, and whole food molecules then will have less of a chance to pass thru your gut, into your bloodstream, and then into your BM.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elisabeth*
Has anyone here read any of Joel Fuhrman's stuff? This is my issue. I came to this forum after completely changing my diet due to reading Eat to Live . I really believe in his theories. They are compatible to SCD, and we have adapted pretty well. I got his new bookisease-Proof Your Child yesterday and I'm about halfway through it. I feel so conflicted. For those of you who don't know him, he is a family practitioner in NJ who has successfully reversed all kinds of auto-immune diseases through nutritional healing. He has also had great success with allergies, asthma and bowel conditions. The only major place his "diet" deviates from SCD is that he doesn't believe that humans were meant to consume dairy. And I'll tell you what, he makes a very strong, scientific case.

I don't know anything about Fuhrman, is there any info online?

I too believe humans where not meant to eat homogenized, pasteurized dairy.

Raw milk is completely different...well absorbed calcium and vitamins. More easily digested proteins and fats. Probiotics, immunoglobulins and enzymes are intact, like breastmilk. One only has to read about Weston Price's research to know that raw dairy builds strong, disease resistant bodies and cavity resistant teeth. Several European tribes he studied ate more than half dairy and their health was perfect. Seems very hard to argue with to me.

However, if you are Asian, you probably shouldn't be eating dairy... the diet of your ancestors determines what is healthiest for you to eat b/c the body adapts.

I'd like to see the science... does he quote studies we can look up?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I'll be back to welcome more of our new members, I'm really psyched you are here!


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## LEAW (Aug 5, 2004)

I haven't read enough yet.. what's CLO?


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Cod liver oil which contains omega 3s that the body can readily use. Omega 3s are necessary for brain, eye, and neuro development in babes from the thrid trimester through 2 years. Omega 3s help to boost immunity and decrease inflammatory processes in adults just to name the main benefits.

http://www.nordicnaturals.com/direct/whatareefas.asp

Peace,


----------



## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

thanks ladies for the info! I guess I would know all about the whole grain issue if I had read the BTVC book or NT. I started looking at some of the pecanbread.com recipes, looks very yummy. I am so psyched that I don't totally have to give up "sweets." We don't have a lot of money right now, especially after the $200+ ND visit, so I was hoping to not have to buy the BTVC book, but it looks like I might need to do that to completely understand things.

Is the diet just that I avoid what is on the Illegal list, or is there something I am missing?

It makes sense that I need to do the diet, after you guys explained it, especially right now that he is 100% bf'ing, sorry I am a bit slow at times. The ND said the brain fog can be due to yeast, I sure hope so, I am so tired of having this horrible memory. I forget what I am saying in the middle of a sentence, it is horrible. I feel like I am just getting stupidier by the moment, and I don't even think that's a word....

Moneca and Lisa I hated to read about your babies throwing up! I cannot imagine how difficult that is/was. I am having enough stress here with Luke. Worried I am doing the wrong thing, worried he will not heal and I am screwing up by even trying this. Worried he will never actually eat real food. Worried that everyone thinks I am starving him....How do all of you ladies deal with that? I am just trying to go off instinct, but it is hard sometime.

welcome to the new mamas!!! Hopefully we can all lean on each other during this journey! Lisa you asked about snacks; the www.pecanbread.com site has snack recipes
and http://www.scdiet.org/2recipes/indexa.html

this one as well, I am just trying to figure this out, so I am probably not the best to ask, I have been snacking on sunflower seeds and fruits or veggies; which I am not sure if they are legal, I am still not up on all of this

zanelee, how is your dh coping with the changes? dh is going through this as well, although I have been fixing side dishes and such that are "illegal" so he doesn't feel too deprived, I hope to cut it all out shortly though, if I can figure out some good recipes to try. Dh has a massive yeast problem, he is such a dairy addict though! I cannot get him to give up the Nestle's Quik( I know that is wrong on sooooo many levels)!!!

Has anyone heard of enzymes from Thorne Research, that is what I got from the ND, man I hope they are good, because they were expensive (imo)?

thanks again ladies, hope I didn't forget anything, rambling on and on


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## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

well, it looks like SCD won't be doable for me right now









there's a page in the knowledge base for vegetarians that basically says unless you can eat at least 1 egg a day and cheese, you won't get enough protein. Since cow's milk and egg whites are on our avoid list we won't be able to do it. although we can do goat's milk products and egg yolks. i don't know how to get egg yolks properly separated from the whiltes though


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Elizabeth, I've read both books you've mentioned, and I agree that it is hard to figure out who is right when both arguments seem so compelling. I think ETL would be a healthy diet if your gut was totally healed so that you could absorb all the hard to digest foods.
You really should read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A. Price. The stories of the people he visited are undeniable and totally inspirational. It will give you a whole new perspective.

I've been gone for a while, but I want to start the diet up again. I did it 100% for 2 weeks when I first started, then life got too crazy. My stomach felt great, and I even lost quite a bit of weight as a nice little bonus.

Have any of you run into the problem of vanilla? So many SCD recipes called for vanilla, and so I went to buy some when I ran out, then read all the labels and could NOT find one brand that didn't list corn syrup as an ingredient!! WTH?!
So, what brands of vanilla are ya'll using, and where do I find some that doesn't have corn syrup. Or is it just that you usually use such a small amount that it doesn't matter?


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

tweetybird, I noticed the vanilla that dh picked up for me had corn syrup in it, but I haven't looked a whole lot. I was shocked, I completely didn't realize this, why must they add corn syrup to everything? I was pretty sure the Mexican vanilla I bought (huge bottle) didn't have corn syrup, but I might have missed it. I have seen many recipes that suggest making your own vanilla, by soaking vanilla beans in some alcohol(cannot remember the type) but alcohol is probably illegal, I haven't got that far yet....


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

I think it's vodka that you soak the beans in.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

ok, forgive the million questions, but I was rereading the intro diet, thinking we might give it a go. It sounds to me from her info on allergies that she thinks that you should try the foods unless they are causing a serious reaction, as it is actually a problem with the gut and not so much a true allergy. I agree that I don't think the issues with my lil' guy are exactly allergies, but it seems like a lot on his system. Maybe I should try anyway...... I think I will ask dh if he thinks we can squeeze enough money out of the budget to buy the book...


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Quote:

Vanilla Extract can be expensive and the brands you find locally may have illegals in it. You can easily make your own

Shiela Trenholm shows us how :-

About 1 cup of vodka
4 or 5 beans
A tall thinnish bottle.

Cut a slit down the length of the beans. Place them in the bottle. Fill with vodka. Screw on bottle top and let sit for at least 1 month. A few times during the month i give the bottle a good shake (whenever I remember). After 1 month I drain of some of the vanilla vodka extract through a coffee filter into another clean bottle. Then top up the original bottle with some more vodka. Periodically I add more fresh vanilla beans. I think I have about 8 - 10 in there now

From Pecan Bread support group

Here are some online sources for legal vanilla, which were posted by list-members:
Pure Vanilla Extract, made only with vanilla and alcohol, from Penzeys Spices http://www.penzeys.com/

Zeron Double Intensity Vanilla extract
http://www.zeronfinefoods.com/vanilla.htm
From the LI listserve
*
Here is the info on vanilla from Elaine's site, it is vodka as you said Liane!*


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

ok, thinking again, I printed out the intro diet, will try this minus the egg and dairy, I will wait a while to try these things. I had egg today and he had diarrhea, this could be that he snagged the spoon I was using for biscuits yesterday, but not sure. I believe I have unflavored gelatin here, I guess I will just eat a whole lotta soup.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*RE: eggs, dairy allergies etc.*

At this point in our journey, these are my thoughts:
Unless you have done a elimination diet/challenge for these foods or had an allergy test to confirm the allergy.... and both of those can also not be perfect.
And you do have suspected yeast/bacteria problems with the gut.
I think you should rethink the "allergy".

I admit I don't know anything about allergy testing. However, I do know that intestinal flora imbalance causes diarrhea that it took us a long time to figure out exactly what the causes were. And along the way I thought DS had a lot of allergies too, which he didn't end up having, it's just that his whole gut was a mess.

Just another perspective from a mama who's trying to find our way too. Follow your intuition.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

More info on cod liver oil:

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...dliveroil.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisa2976*
Hi









Trying to read some of the old threads and learn more..

Dd is 8.5 months, no solids yet (one or two tries), I did TED and found she reacted to dairy, soy, garbanzo beans, pork, citrus, all melons, all red berries, and peanuts (at least so far that's what we know, I'm still adding foods...)

I had abx during labor, never made it to fullblown thrush although I had some symptoms, she had none.

Reactions to foods I eat include huge amounts of ear wax, spitting up (she's on prevacid for reflux too), red diaper rash, ring around anus, screaming, congestion, inability to poo.

My mother and her mom have dairy/egg allergies, my FIL has a seafood allergy. I wasn't given any dairy until 14 months (ebf) so I don't think I had the exposure to have the allergy (mom didn't consume dairy while bf).

Dh and I have histories of chronic ear infections/tubes, although we both have no known food allergies.

The more I read, the more I learn, the more it all makes sense yet I can't explain it to someone and I can't fix it. SO I'm hoping you guys can help out!

At the moment dd and I are both taking probiotics (jarrow baby for her, another brand for me), I'm avoiding those foods she reacted to, and we're eaglerly waiting to start solids BUT the few times she's had some she either throws it all back up 1-2 hrs after eating or doesn't poo for a week, both of which I qualify as reactions. She's had apple, pear, cucumber, and avocado.

Teething, crawling, pulling up, generally frustrated, not sleeping well (either of us) nursing every 2 hrs at night and every hour during the day. The reflux seems mostly controlled with the meds and limiting my diet.

Help!









Lisa!

I would think about discontinuing the Baby Jarrow and going with acidophilus only now that she is on solids... based on our experience and the information from the SCD:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...us#post3633799
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...kb/bifidus.htm

Start with cooked and well pureed foods only, no raw... they are harder to digest. Except banana can be raw *as long as it is very very ripe with lots and lots of black spots.* This means all the complex sugars are converted to simple sugars and is therefore easy to digest.

The red ring and other symptoms are definately an intestinal flora problem. And since you have had symptoms too, it's possible you have leaky gut as well, which is why you seem to be seeing reactions in her to what you eat. If your gut is not breaking down your food properly whole food molecules could be passing through your intestinal wall, into your bloodstream and therefore, into your milk... they are not supposed to be there, your babe is not ready for them, and that is why so many foods are producing reactions.

This is *very hard* to try to figure all this out with an intestinal flora imbalance/leaky gut when you base it on a "food reaction" theory. Meaning: "If I elminate all the foods my baby is reacting to, we will heal". It seems to be more complex than that. Eliminating foods still doesn't fix the problem. Like my previous message re: dairy/egg allergies, there could be a lot going on that is not necessarily triggered by one or two or a group of foods.

Good description of intestinal flora and the SCD diet focus on specific carbohydrates that are easy to digest and don't feed the "bad gut bugs":
http://www.pecanbread.com/scdscience.html

HTH! Keep reading and asking questions, you'll get there


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
Subscribing









I was wondering what all you mamas cook with as far as pots and pans and crockpots. There was a thread here about some Rival Crockpots containing "low or safe" levels of lead in the ceramic glaze.

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...rival+crockpot

We still use ours, though, because I haven't been able to find anything else. My mom just got brand new stainless steel copper bottom pots because I was telling her about aluminum pans and how they are not good for your health. Are these good to cook with? I've discovered that I am really not missing the nonstick pans all that much anyway.

We're sort of struggling here and somehow having AF just screws everything up and I can't eat well. But we're trying.... I am so amazed at the willpower and strength all of you have to eat so well. Even though I know everything I eat goes straight to my baby I still find it hard every single meal of the day and every single day.

I read this thread every day for inspiration, you are all such good mamas!








Liane









Liane, I've been wondering how you were









I use stainless steel (and have exclusively with DS since he was born, which is why his testing somewhat high in aluminum floored me). Occasionally cast iron.

ARGH re: crockpot!!! I do use our Rival crockpot every once in a while, and to stew DS's lamb, and he hasn't tested high in lead at least.

Thank you for your kind words. Believe me, every day is a struggle here too. I'm sure many of the mamas just starting the journey feels exactly the same way as you do. I often think if I had just wised up long ago, we wouldn't still be here... but you don't want to hear my rants!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
Well, I just received copies of Nourishing Traditions and Wild Fermentation.
I warned dh last night that our diet is about to radically change! :LOL
Any suggestions as I embark on this long read/journey?

Start with somewhat familiar things... like if you have oatmeal or pancakes, follow the instructions in NT for soaking it first. Make fermented salsa and pickled red peppers.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

DS's snacks: almond cookies or muffins, leftover pancakes/waffles, fruit

My snacks: the above, or cheese, nut butter, fruit, yogurt ... in various combinations and smoothies


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Another fantastic recipe site:

http://www.scdrecipe.com/recipes.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

We use:

Organic Nielsen Massey vanilla extract from Whole Foods (only the organic ... and more expensive version ... doesn't contain sugar)

Vanilla from www.DigestiveWellness.com
I get our almond flour and bulk honey for baking here. (we use local raw honey if it is to be eaten unheated for its benefits).


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca*
This is our second day back on SCD. All is still well. The past couple of weeks Bear had been taking 1 to 1 1/2 hours to fall asleep for her nap. She would just sit in her crib and play. It took her an hour on Tuesday and then yesterday was down to 30 min. Today she fell right to sleep. This is so intriguing. I will figure all of this out and I am sending the good sleeping fairies to Jane's house







. Right now I'm just amazingly thankful







that my Bear feels so much better







.

Where are these fairies already!?









I'm literally in tears everyday with this kid and his naps... he seems to need to tantrum and cry in order to finally allow himself to let go and collapse. This has been common with him. Taking an hour to an hour and a half is the rule.

I should be pm'ing you about that neurotransmitter test shouldn't I. Is there any info online I can read about it?

DH is not thrilled at the amount of $$ I'm spending on this stuff. And I'm about to drop more... another order of enzymes. And I think I'm going to try things like oil of oregano, Biocidin, olive leaf extract, etc. on DS.

I'm glad Bear is feeling better... you both deserve it so much!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessviola*
well, it looks like SCD won't be doable for me right now









there's a page in the knowledge base for vegetarians that basically says unless you can eat at least 1 egg a day and cheese, you won't get enough protein. Since cow's milk and egg whites are on our avoid list we won't be able to do it. although we can do goat's milk products and egg yolks. i don't know how to get egg yolks properly separated from the whiltes though

















Jessica!

Where do you get your protein now?

I read a bit of your blog (great job!) and it seems to me if you can do goat and sheep milk and cheese you'll be fine.

You can get a little plastic egg separator thingie at kitchen supply stores that is essentially a fine colander in which the egg white slips thru and the yolk stays.

Are the blood tests you did for IgG reactions?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
Maybe I should try anyway...... I think I will ask dh if he thinks we can squeeze enough money out of the budget to buy the book...

Did you check the library?


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

well, we started to do! I already screwed up my gelatin, how I messed that up I don't know. I had dh pick up Welch's 100% grape juice, but it said on the ingredients it was from concentrate, which I thought was bad, but I drank it as the brand was what she specified. My soup is cooking, and I am starving.

Jane, we haven't done any allergy tests,b ecause I didn't want to mess with the ped and they aren't very accurate. I did do an elimination diet and that is what the LC determine, plus my own investigations. I think I will just go slow with it all, I really think it is a gut issue as well. OH, and if there is anyone out there today- as I understand for the intro it is best to cut out the other suplements expect the probiotics, and fish oil. I thought I would use my fish oil from Nordic Naturals for this couple of days because my clo is lemon flavored- from Carlsons.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

moneca, it is so great to read about your fabulous progress! I hope your daughter continues to improve!


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## Einley (Jul 12, 2003)

subscribing- haven't gotten through the Sept. thread yet, but I'm working on it!


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

well, day one is done! we did ok, although I was starving by the time I got breakfast, I couldn't make the jello until I got up, finally around 11 or so I decided to do egg yolks. I was soooooo on edge yesterday, definitely bad mommy of the year. Lil' man was cracked out, didn't nap until 3:30, he is only getting my bm as of right now. His poops were yellow sometimes and then a darker green sometimes, with a little bit of red blood in there one time. That is so frustrating.

I had planned on only doing the intro for 2 days. Can anyone tell me what comes next? I have ordered the book, but am lost on what I am supposed to add? Or, could someone direct me to where that info is? Evidently I am awful at searching, because I haven't seen it yet.

here's hoping to a good day today! I hope everyone else is doing well also!


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## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Jessica!

Where do you get your protein now?

I read a bit of your blog (great job!) and it seems to me if you can do goat and sheep milk and cheese you'll be fine.

You can get a little plastic egg separator thingie at kitchen supply stores that is essentially a fine colander in which the egg white slips thru and the yolk stays.

Are the blood tests you did for IgG reactions?

sorry i don't have much time to type right now (nak). we did the immuno bloodprint and some other IgE and IgG tests with the ND. i'll have to go check which is which.

would those separators do a good enough job? maybe i'm paranoid but i can't imagine anything *really* getting all the whites away from the yolk. or maybe it doesn't have to be *that* exact?

i'm off sheep cheese for now. can i do goat cheese everyday (oooh that would be nice!!!







)?

i get protein from almond butter, walnuts, black beans, pinto beans, goat cheese, lima beans, seaweed. i need to keep thinking though because i'm having trouble concentrating right now


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Quote:

zanelee, how is your dh coping with the changes?
Um, I haven't actually made the changes yet. I decided (for me) I'd better read the book first, and then act on it. I'd have a better grip on what I need to do. I've just given dh the warning that his fast-food, high fat world is about to end! :LOL

Vanilla-
I use the Simply Organic Vanilla Extract. It's ingredients are: water, organic alcohol, organic vanilla bean extractives.(what does that mean?)

Question of EFA's: Do you worry about high mercury in the efa's? Is there a resource to check to make sure that there isn't any in them? That's what has held me back from taking any.

Another question: For an 8 month old that is pretty much just starting some solids, what would you all recommend for probiotics? Just lactob.? Would you use the same for a 3 year old that still nurses and eats solids too? I have a powder by Nature's Way that I started using, but it's got bifidus bacteria in it too...and I read a post somewhere (might be this thread) that Bifidus can over power the other beneficials and inadvertantly help the bad bacteria.

Hmmm...I think that's all the questions I have for now...


----------



## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

ok, he had IgE reactions to:
Egg White
Milk
Wheat
Barley
Peanut
Soybean

he had IgG reactions to:
Corn
Egg Whilte
Casein/Cow Milk
Soybean
Wheat

but on the immuno bloodprint, (IgG 115 foods)
barley, corn, egg, cow's milk, and soybeans were on the non-reactive list


----------



## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Jennifer, on the EFA's both the Carlson's CLO I have and the NOrdic Naturals FO have info on the side of the bottle about being clear of mercury and other metals. I have no idea about the probiotics though. I guess I shoudl have followed your lead and waited on starting here I am so lost...

my update;
not only am I starving, but I am going insane and infertile.....I have been a mean yelling mommy and just want to cry. I have no idea what the hell I am supposed to be eating and who knows when the damn book will come in... I would just give up, but I don't know what I would eat at all. So, since I have not a clue I have ate somethings off of the legal list; almond butter, honey, and some cooked pears. Oh, and last night I had a sample of some farmer's cheese, as I had read that DCCC is also called farmer's cheese, well, it was the wrong kind, so I had dairy after 3 weeks of none, so have to start that all over again and lil' man's cheeks are redder today, although his bm wasn't too bad this morning although he was a fireball today, would not nap until 2:30, kept me awake all last night nursing because we were gone yesterday and he won't hardly eat when we are out.

of course he may be constantly nursing because I have half-way gotten my period, although I didn't ovulate this month, my temps have tanked and my mucus was constant the entire month, so no sex...

I am going to have to change something because I am starving, as of this am I was down 10 lbs from 1 mo ago, when I started the whole elimination diet, no dairy etc diet. That is surely why my cycles have totally whacked out again, not to mention I have been sooooo stressed about all of this.

rambling on, don't know why,


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
well, day one is done! we did ok, although I was starving by the time I got breakfast, I couldn't make the jello until I got up, finally around 11 or so I decided to do egg yolks. I was soooooo on edge yesterday, definitely bad mommy of the year. Lil' man was cracked out, didn't nap until 3:30, he is only getting my bm as of right now. His poops were yellow sometimes and then a darker green sometimes, with a little bit of red blood in there one time. That is so frustrating.

I had planned on only doing the intro for 2 days. Can anyone tell me what comes next? I have ordered the book, but am lost on what I am supposed to add? Or, could someone direct me to where that info is? Evidently I am awful at searching, because I haven't seen it yet.

here's hoping to a good day today! I hope everyone else is doing well also!









s

Do you think you are going thru die off? That can make anyone super cranky. As well as if you are hungry... are you eating enough fats?

According to the book, after the intro is cooked and seeded fruits and veggies. No cabbage family. Watch for any reactions (gas, bloating, the big D). Go slow with the yogurt, start with a small amount at a time. One teaspoon of homemade yogurt contains 5x more beneficial bacteria than the standard probiotic capsule.
http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/co...onspiracy.html
If you eat too much at first, it could cause huge die off.

Pecanbread has a list of more easily tolerated foods in stages, might be helpful:
http://www.pecanbread.com/foodprep.html#beyond


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
well, we started to do! I already screwed up my gelatin, how I messed that up I don't know. I had dh pick up Welch's 100% grape juice, but it said on the ingredients it was from concentrate, which I thought was bad, but I drank it as the brand was what she specified. My soup is cooking, and I am starving.

Jane, we haven't done any allergy tests,b ecause I didn't want to mess with the ped and they aren't very accurate. I did do an elimination diet and that is what the LC determine, plus my own investigations. I think I will just go slow with it all, I really think it is a gut issue as well. OH, and if there is anyone out there today- as I understand for the intro it is best to cut out the other suplements expect the probiotics, and fish oil. I thought I would use my fish oil from Nordic Naturals for this couple of days because my clo is lemon flavored- from Carlsons.

Yes, I guess Elaine got assurances from Welch's that there is absolutely no sugar added. Personally I hate using non organic juice from grapes though, they are the worst for pesticides. We use the Knudsen Organic Just Juice that has been okayed (all the Just Juice line is SCD legal).
http://www.knudsenjuices.com/product...pid=7&catid=53

Once I knew that our problems were intestinal imbalance, I never put much stock in allergy tests, so we never got them done either.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Einley*
subscribing- haven't gotten through the Sept. thread yet, but I'm working on it!

















Genevieve, let us know if you have any questions


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

thanks a million, that really helps! looks like I jumped the gun abit on the almond butter, well, cannot stop screwing up...( I am on stage 1 right?) I am doing a little better now. I don't know if this is die off or what, probably is also hormonal. I think I am getting enough fat, I didn't even skim my soup, as I figured I really needed the fat with bf'ing. I just know that somethings got to change. I haven't got any yogurt yet, or made any, our stupid printer isn't working so it is hard to bring these things to the kitchen, plus I guess I need to order the starter.....


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessviola*
sorry i don't have much time to type right now (nak). we did the immuno bloodprint and some other IgE and IgG tests with the ND. i'll have to go check which is which.

would those separators do a good enough job? maybe i'm paranoid but i can't imagine anything *really* getting all the whites away from the yolk. or maybe it doesn't have to be *that* exact?

i'm off sheep cheese for now. can i do goat cheese everyday (oooh that would be nice!!!







)?

i get protein from almond butter, walnuts, black beans, pinto beans, goat cheese, lima beans, seaweed. i need to keep thinking though because i'm having trouble concentrating right now









Yeah, I can relate to The Mommy Brain Fog. Also The Lack of Sleep Fog *and* The Digestive Disorder Fog too! And I've had ALL three at one point, it's a wonder I could even function :LOL

I don't know re: separators. Goat milk protein is much smaller and more easily digested than cow's so that is probably why it's not as allergenic. I really don't know about every day... all of this is such an inexact science. It depends on how your body handles it and whether it gets to your babe and how they handle it.









Forgot though, SCD doesn't like goat cheese b/c it's not aged for 30 days, which means it still has lactose in it. But goat's milk yogurt would be fantastic for healing and repopulating the gut. You can also drip it to make a sort of goat cheese.


----------



## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

oh, it is good to read that the Welch's is ok, I was worried about that. I felt bad about the grape juice as well, but there is no alternatives in my area..


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
Question of EFA's: Do you worry about high mercury in the efa's? Is there a resource to check to make sure that there isn't any in them? That's what has held me back from taking any.

Another question: For an 8 month old that is pretty much just starting some solids, what would you all recommend for probiotics? Just lactob.? Would you use the same for a 3 year old that still nurses and eats solids too? I have a powder by Nature's Way that I started using, but it's got bifidus bacteria in it too...and I read a post somewhere (might be this thread) that Bifidus can over power the other beneficials and inadvertantly help the bad bacteria.

Hmmm...I think that's all the questions I have for now...









I think it was Mercola's site that explained that mercury is water soluble, not fat soluble, so the oil of fish would not tend to concentrate it to begin with. And then Carlson's and Nordic Naturals have been rigorously tested for not only mercury but other metals and PCBs and they've been clean.

The 8 month old and the 3 year old can be on acidophilus. I made that post in the Power of Probiotics thread based on our experience and also info from SCD: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...kb/bifidus.htm

I would concentrate on your supplementation too, probiotics do come thru breastmilk. What about homemade yogurt?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessviola*
ok, he had IgE reactions to:
Egg White
Milk
Wheat
Barley
Peanut
Soybean

he had IgG reactions to:
Corn
Egg Whilte
Casein/Cow Milk
Soybean
Wheat

but on the immuno bloodprint, (IgG 115 foods)
barley, corn, egg, cow's milk, and soybeans were on the non-reactive list









Now IgE are the serious ones right?

This stuff makes my head spin


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
my update;
not only am I starving, but I am going insane and infertile.....I have been a mean yelling mommy and just want to cry. I have no idea what the hell I am supposed to be eating and who knows when the damn book will come in... I would just give up, but I don't know what I would eat at all. So, since I have not a clue I have ate somethings off of the legal list; almond butter, honey, and some cooked pears. Oh, and last night I had a sample of some farmer's cheese, as I had read that DCCC is also called farmer's cheese, well, it was the wrong kind, so I had dairy after 3 weeks of none, so have to start that all over again and lil' man's cheeks are redder today, although his bm wasn't too bad this morning although he was a fireball today, would not nap until 2:30, kept me awake all last night nursing because we were gone yesterday and he won't hardly eat when we are out.

of course he may be constantly nursing because I have half-way gotten my period, although I didn't ovulate this month, my temps have tanked and my mucus was constant the entire month, so no sex...

I am going to have to change something because I am starving, as of this am I was down 10 lbs from 1 mo ago, when I started the whole elimination diet, no dairy etc diet. That is surely why my cycles have totally whacked out again, not to mention I have been sooooo stressed about all of this.

rambling on, don't know why,

Definately sounds like die off to me!!!









I don't want to jinx us, but epsom salts baths are really working for DS. Also activated charcoal is recommended:
http://www.pecanbread.com/badreaction.html

I had supply problems during AF and also huge problems when I started our Elim. Diet as well. Big issue since DS was only 8 mos. old.

Are you eating enough fats?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

This is the legal version of Farmer's Cheese:
http://www.friendshipdairies.com/pro...rmerhoop.shtml


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
thanks a million, that really helps! looks like I jumped the gun abit on the almond butter, well, cannot stop screwing up...( I am on stage 1 right?) I am doing a little better now. I don't know if this is die off or what, probably is also hormonal. I think I am getting enough fat, I didn't even skim my soup, as I figured I really needed the fat with bf'ing. I just know that somethings got to change. I haven't got any yogurt yet, or made any, our stupid printer isn't working so it is hard to bring these things to the kitchen, plus I guess I need to order the starter.....

Not really, the Pecanbread stages are what was determined to be most easily handled by ASD kids, who have really bad guts.

Nut butters and nut milks are the first stage of adding nuts since they are the easiest to digest b/c they are ground up.

Yes, you need a lot of fat while bf'ing. This is the Weston Price rec's for bf'ing mamas:
http://www.westonaprice.org/children...ormothers.html


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
oh, it is good to read that the Welch's is ok, I was worried about that. I felt bad about the grape juice as well, but there is no alternatives in my area..

Sorry. It sucks to be too well informed sometimes... don'tcha just wanna LIVE


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
I haven't got any yogurt yet, or made any, our stupid printer isn't working so it is hard to bring these things to the kitchen, plus I guess I need to order the starter.....

Oh and I think you can just use Dannon yogurt for starter, in any grocery store... or any other yogurt... as long as it only has these strains: acidophilus, bulgaricus, thermophilus.

Others I know are okay to use as starters:
Total from Greece
Butterworks organic


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Jane - I wish I had a web link for the neuro tests that you could look at. If you pm me your address I'd be glad to make copies of our before and after tests and send them to you along with the suggested supplements. I just ordered the hair test for Sierra from directlabs. I'm going to wait for mine until all the bloody amalgams







: are out. Four out three to go. Glad to hear the salt baths are helping. What results are you seeing? I only noticed the speech improvement







with Bear since she was already so calm to begin with.

Actually, if you're only going to







: with a few things, grape products, peanuts, and strawberries are always most important. These foods tend to mold easily and are treated with strong fungicides when grown conventionally.

Crunchmama - I noticed that you're in MO. Are you near St. Louis? There is a Trader Joe's grocery store in SL and they have lots of organics at cheap prices.








,


----------



## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

thanks for all the info Jane, I am sorry, I probably sound like a total nutcase, kind of feel that way.... although it is hard to admit...

re fats: thanks for the list, it seems that a lot of the rec. I cannot have right now... but I am eating lots of egg yolks(5 today), 1 1/2 T CLO daily, my soup was so gelled together from all the fat today that it was like pudding-, at least 1 serving fish per day.

re yogurt: that is very good to know, I will hopefully have dh fix the printer tomorrow so I can get started on the yogurt, he already has a list for the am(he works nights) now that I know some things I can have

re nuts: oh, that is good news, at least I didn't screw that up, I love almond butter and that is a good way to get extra calories and fat into my diet

re cheese; thanks for the pic, I will keep my eyes peeled, but don't think we have that around here

re die off: I hope you are right. Lil' man and I just took an epsom salt bath(for hemmorhoids







) I will try to do them in the am to maybe help. So, your lil' guy is going through die-off as well? Hugs to you as well!

Yes, it does suck to be well-informed, especially in the middle of nowhere. Ignorance really is bliss!

I am so psyched right now dh is supposed to pick me up some salt-cured ham, I sure hope he can find some without sugar, that will make a great breakfast! I have some apples baking right now drizzled with honey and applejuice, a little treat will be nice.

well, tomorrow is another day< I am optimistic it will be better,cannot be much worse...


----------



## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

moneca, I am 2.5 hrs south of St. Louis, I like to hit Trader Joes and Whole Foods when we go up there, but it has been a couple of months. We usually visit pretty often, but money is tight right now, hopefully soon though. ARe you from St. Louis? Or just like to visit as well! Dh and I really enjoy it up there, it is going to kill me to not be able to eat some fabulous Indian food our next trip...


----------



## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Quote:

Jane-I think it was Mercola's site that explained that mercury is water soluble, not fat soluble, so the oil of fish would not tend to concentrate it to begin with. And then Carlson's and Nordic Naturals have been rigorously tested for not only mercury but other metals and PCBs and they've been clean.
I'm also on the probiotics thread...and I probably read your post, but couldn't find it again as that thread is so long! :LOL Thanks for the info. I'm going to run by our health food store and see if I can find either of the efa brands you mentioned above.
I know they carry the Nature's Way line. They say that they are mercury free-would you all trust that?

Thanks again!


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Oh my has this thread grown! Welcome everyone (and hello Jessica!) We are still going strong, though I attempted avacado with dd and it didn't go so well. We have a massive rash and a backslide in the eating. I should have waited because I have a significant latex sensitivity, but I wanted avacados back so badly. This means that bananas won't be coming back any time soon.

I found a really yummy raw goat cheddar cheese that is aged over 60 days that the kids love, so we are doing some of that. Though I am really close to making that disappear from our lives.

Fuhrman has a TON of scientific data that backs him up, I don't know where to find him online since I'm not here much myself. I am planning on talking to him soon to get a clearer picture, and if I think about it I'll try to post references out of the books. His objection isn't so much the pasteurization and homoginization as it is that cows milk is designed for a calf which is meant to grow to it's full size in a year. So, when you give cow's (or goat's) milk to human's it causes them to grow too quickly, mature too fast and leaves them susceptible to many different cancers. This is all without the added hazards of extra growth hormones. There is also the problem (which really isn't one of his bigger ones) of toxins in the fat of the milk. Even organic dairy is going to have high levels of things like dioxin. On his top ten list of most dangerous foods to consume cheese and dairy are both close to the top. He says if you are going to do any dairy it should absolutely fat free though it really shouldn't be kept in the house at all. So, I'm still pondering. I'll let you all know (fwiw) what he says when I speak to him.

Good luck everyone, and keep up the good work!


----------



## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

*elisabeth*, that is interesting re: dairy from Fuhrman. I can understand the logic that it is meant to be for baby cows. However, it seems that there has/is cultures that consume dairy with virtually very low cancer raters. However, I am just starting out on this journey. That is also interesting about the avocado/banana latex I had never heard that, but there is a lot I haven't heard so I am not surprised. We tried some banana today(which I had froze it was very brown when I did) it seemed to bother my tummy though.

*Jennifer*- I wouldn't trust anything but the Carlson's or the Nordic Naturals, the Nordic Naturals (from what I understand is the very best) I know the manufacturing process is very important to keep the oils beneficial. So, that is my vote unless someone else has more info.

*our update*:
today was 200x better. I went to bed early last night and although he nursed a lot, it was much better. He napped much better today as well(I napped with him this morning as well- I had to do some catch up). I was also happy to get to eat some more food, yipee!

Well I had sent dh to get me some ham, he brought home canned ham. He insists that it is just ham and that I can eat it, I told him canned meats were not allowed, besides the fact that it has nitrites in it, which I have always heard are bad- canned meat just skeeves me out anyway.

Lil' man and I went to try and find some ham without sugar today and it ended up being this huge ordeal, needless to say we didn't find any, maybe better luck around Thanksgiving. However, we are going to check a local meat shop on Friday.

I bought some Dannon yogurt and Organic Cows Milk to make yogurt, but am going to wait until tomorrow, because often times things get screwed up when I am trying to cook with lil' man. So, perhaps Friday morning I will have some yogurt.

On the Yogurt; I have this little light that clamps, I am guessing I just need to plug it up and run it into the stove? Dh thought maybe he could build me something, but I think that will work.

Also, does anyone have thoughts on whether or not the yogurt will be beneficial to dh, even though he is no where near to following the diet. I am thinking it won't hurt and he has HUGE yeast issues, so maybe I can at least get him to take that, he took acidophilus before, but it didn't help his 6 yr old rash.

lil' man's poop has been a very deep dark green, don't know if that is good or bad, he is pooping less often, but more at a time, it seems that they are still liquid, but not watery like they were and I have only noticed a little bit of mucus, mostly yesterday (after the cheese incident on Sunday)
*
and a funny aside* (as if I don't write enough) I have a friend who is a HUGE sugar addict; Mt. Dew several times a day cannot get enough cheese, etc. Well, she is trying to cut back on the Dew and last week she also ran out of cheese, although she had other dairy products. She was telling me how horrible she felt, she had to go buy some Dew and cheese and now she feels better. She says she is trying to cut back, but was making crab rangoon as we were talking. To me this should be a huge sign that this is a big issue, she said she had cheese Sat after not having it for a few days and had diarrhea immediately, she said the same thing happened in high school anytime she had cheese. She was bemoaning to me how horrible it was to keep looking in the fridge and nothing looking good because she didn't have cheese! HELLO! I have been off ALL dairy for about a month and have now given up pretty much all carbs, no I have no idea how this feels..... Anywho, she is in such denial. Her dh has Celiac's too, but eats whatever anyway...ugh

*Oh and good news;*
went to the library and found Sugar Busters- which seems to have some really good recipes and Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill. There are suppsed to be trying to find me Nourishing Traditions and Nutrition and Physical Degeneration for inter-library loan! I am so excited, now hopefully my BTVC book will come in soon, I have so many questions and I hate harrasing you guys all the time.

I am hoping to read some updates from everyone, hope all are doing well!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca*
Jane - I wish I had a web link for the neuro tests that you could look at. If you pm me your address I'd be glad to make copies of our before and after tests and send them to you along with the suggested supplements. I just ordered the hair test for Sierra from directlabs. I'm going to wait for mine until all the bloody amalgams







: are out. Four out three to go. Glad to hear the salt baths are helping. What results are you seeing? I only noticed the speech improvement







with Bear since she was already so calm to begin with.

We are noticing more calm nighttime and naptime behavior on bath nights (we only do baths every other day). I had been doing the magnesium cream as Karen DeFelice suggested and noticed squat from it.

I can't figure out the magic solution of what is making this kid sleep through the night when he does do it though. It's crazy, it follow no pattern whatsoever. So I'm just going to conclude we have to soldier on.

I was just re-reading BTVC and it mentions how the toxins from bad bacteria interfere with neurotransmitters!


----------



## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

Hi Jane, have you tried any massage with your little one? I have used grapeseed oil with Micah and it is sort of like having a bath for us. She only gets a bath once every two weeks so we can't really make bathtime a routine thing.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm thinking of putting DS back on the Intro Diet again. Just need to decide about dairy first.

Started him on our organic raw high vitamin butter for a week, didn't notice any major changes. He had some raw cheese, and slept through the night 2 nights in a row so it didn't seem to have an effect. I'll just smack myself if the kid is not allergic to dairy after all, I'm such a dope.









However, he is getting Peptizyde enzymes with them so I know that could make a major difference. We are finally on all 3 Houston enzymes at every meal. But with a snack I choose 1 or 2 depending on what it is... I think I'm supposed to be doing all 3 too? Waiting for the Happy Child Syndrome. Any day now. Yup. Waaaaiting.









Poor thing, I complain about him too much here. He is so loving and sweet most of the time really, it's just nap/bedtime/middle of night that he turns into Monster Child. Tonight in the grocery store he smiled and waved to everyone as usual. He just strikes up conversations... He noticed a half of a tortilla chip in the milk case and said, "Oh no, somebody lost their chip!" (and the kid has had about 2 chips in his entire life too). Then he goes to the nearest lady, "Hey, that your chip?" :LOL









He seems to go through die off constantly. His poops will be great for a few days and then he'll get a massive mushy one without changing his diet. I've been careful for the past 2 months since we started SCD and I cannot figure it out for the life of me. I *think* there are foods such as carrots which is now reacting to (when he didn't before) but maybe it's not specific foods but a general change in his flora that is happening.

It just makes it so much harder to figure out what to give him. He's on a very very limited diet right now.

Because he used to tolerate so much more. I mean the kid had 2-3 cups of rice milk a day, rice or rice pasta, rice cakes, raw fruit every day etc. and had solid brown poops, most of the time. What's changed? Makes me crazy!!!









But maybe all those disaccharides led us to worse gut trouble now.









The other thing I was thinking is that the fact that he was still BF then has changed. So either my milk was protecting him, or since I have removed the source of his metals, me







, he is now going through detox and dumping them out into his gut, and therefore making his digestion worse.

We are onto the goat yogurt this week, gotta do it, wish me luck.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elisabeth*
Fuhrman has a TON of scientific data that backs him up, I don't know where to find him online since I'm not here much myself. I am planning on talking to him soon to get a clearer picture, and if I think about it I'll try to post references out of the books. His objection isn't so much the pasteurization and homoginization as it is that cows milk is designed for a calf which is meant to grow to it's full size in a year. So, when you give cow's (or goat's) milk to human's it causes them to grow too quickly, mature too fast and leaves them susceptible to many different cancers. This is all without the added hazards of extra growth hormones. There is also the problem (which really isn't one of his bigger ones) of toxins in the fat of the milk. Even organic dairy is going to have high levels of things like dioxin. On his top ten list of most dangerous foods to consume cheese and dairy are both close to the top. He says if you are going to do any dairy it should absolutely fat free though it really shouldn't be kept in the house at all. So, I'm still pondering. I'll let you all know (fwiw) what he says when I speak to him.

Sigh.

You had to post this just when I'm starting DS on dairy didn't you...


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
Hi Jane, have you tried any massage with your little one? I have used grapeseed oil with Micah and it is sort of like having a bath for us. She only gets a bath once every two weeks so we can't really make bathtime a routine thing.

This was a major fantasy of mine when I was pregnant... I read about it, got several organic oils... and then out came Mr. Wiggly. He just won't stay still to enjoy it, when he was little or now!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
I know they carry the Nature's Way line. They say that they are mercury free-would you all trust that?

Nature's Way cod liver oil capsules?

Two ND's I've spoken with don't trust Nature's Way as a good brand for most things, lots of fillers in their herbs for example. So I tend to stay away from them. BUT Nature's Way Reuteri is a great probiotic so who knows.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
Also, does anyone have thoughts on whether or not the yogurt will be beneficial to dh, even though he is no where near to following the diet. I am thinking it won't hurt and he has HUGE yeast issues, so maybe I can at least get him to take that, he took acidophilus before, but it didn't help his 6 yr old rash.

lil' man's poop has been a very deep dark green, don't know if that is good or bad, he is pooping less often, but more at a time, it seems that they are still liquid, but not watery like they were and I have only noticed a little bit of mucus, mostly yesterday (after the cheese incident on Sunday)
*
and a funny aside* (as if I don't write enough) I have a friend who is a HUGE sugar addict; Mt. Dew several times a day cannot get enough cheese, etc.

*Oh and good news;*
went to the library and found Sugar Busters- which seems to have some really good recipes and Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill. There are suppsed to be trying to find me Nourishing Traditions and Nutrition and Physical Degeneration for inter-library loan! I am so excited, now hopefully my BTVC book will come in soon, I have so many questions and I hate harrasing you guys all the time.

I am hoping to read some updates from everyone, hope all are doing well!

DEFINATELY re: yogurt and your DH. Like I just posted above, 1 teaspoon of 24 hr. yogurt contains 5x more probiotics than a capsule. *Homemade Yogurt is The Key to Healing.*

Have you seen this poop link?
http://www.enzymestuff.com/rtstools.htm

Yeah, once you go through such a tremendous diet change, other people's bad habits will look even that much more glaring to you! And just wait til you read NT and Weston Price's book... I'm telling you, your life will change forever. That's one perspective I'm so grateful to my little man for teaching me, the incredible importance of the food we eat. It literally determines health or sickness. Not many people can make that connection.

And I'll be psyched to have another person to discuss "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" with!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
On the Yogurt; I have this little light that clamps, I am guessing I just need to plug it up and run it into the stove? Dh thought maybe he could build me something, but I think that will work.

BTVC recommends changing the lightbulb in your stove to a 40 or 60 watt bulb, then leaving it on to keep the oven warm enough for the yogurt to stay between 100-110F. Prop the door open with a wooden spoon or something if you need to cool it down a bit.

I've also read a good post on Pecanbread Yahoo list re: making in crock pot set to low. But buffering the bottom with oven mitts and leaving the cover off b/c "low" is usually much much higher than 110 degrees.

I thought I heard about a "yogurt box" that someone's DH made... forget where.

When I was testing my stove method I posted about before... which by the way I have to fiddle with and change the settings since it's about 10 degrees colder in my house now... it was helpful to do test runs with just water in the jars I planned to use. I took the temperature every hour or so at first, to make sure it was keeping steady.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elisabeth*
Fuhrman has a TON of scientific data that backs him up, I don't know where to find him online since I'm not here much myself. I am planning on talking to him soon to get a clearer picture, and if I think about it I'll try to post references out of the books. His objection isn't so much the pasteurization and homoginization as it is that cows milk is designed for a calf which is meant to grow to it's full size in a year. So, when you give cow's (or goat's) milk to human's it causes them to grow too quickly, mature too fast and leaves them susceptible to many different cancers. This is all without the added hazards of extra growth hormones. There is also the problem (which really isn't one of his bigger ones) of toxins in the fat of the milk. Even organic dairy is going to have high levels of things like dioxin. On his top ten list of most dangerous foods to consume cheese and dairy are both close to the top. He says if you are going to do any dairy it should absolutely fat free though it really shouldn't be kept in the house at all.

I have heard the argument before about cow's milk being made to grow a baby cow, but think about the fact that a seed is made to grow a baby plant, an egg is made to grow a baby chick, and frankly, any animal flesh is made to power that particular animal -- isn't it all alien matter that we should be able to break down (with strong guts) to use for what we need it for? I guess I feel like dairy is so much nicer tasting and easier to eat than so much other foods out there, I don't think I could giveit up. As far as fat free, well, I think that's the opposite of Mercola's take on it, isn't it?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, where do you get high vitamin butter, and how do you know it's high in vitamins? Is that a local thing that only someone in your region would be able to do?


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

*Jane*, Thanks for the poop link! That was helpful, I had tried to tell the ND that I thought his stringy poops a few weeks ago was yeast related and she blew it off, HA I was right. Still don't know how to intrepret the current poop. this am it was that pretty yellow again...

You know I am trying to see the positive in this as well. Finally this weekend it clicked for me that DUH the purpose of eating is to sustain our bodies, that is pretty important. I guess I always knew this, but we really do not make that connection often enough. I am excited to read Price's book, althouhg I am wondering what other food I love will I no longer be able to eat!!

I hated to read about your lil' guy! I do hope you guys get things figured out. I was wondering is there anyway you guys could do baths everyday, or would that bother the eczema too much? We do soaks once a day, really I was just doing them for my hemmorhoids, but he won't let me bathe alone. I don't lather him up but every few days or so, or if he has dirt on him. Just thought if it is making things better why not? Although, I am sure you have thought of that.... Your little guy does sound adorable! I can sure understand being frustrated, which really just makes me mad at myself. You have to take it easy on yourself as well!

Well, my oven has 20w max posted on the bulb, so I put my light in there with the thermometer, and am seeing how it is doing. It was a shy past 110 last time I checked, so a 45 w might be best for the long run. I have told dh that he has to eat some yogurt!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Jane, where do you get high vitamin butter, and how do you know it's high in vitamins? Is that a local thing that only someone in your region would be able to do?

I belong to a raw dairy co-op. We share drives to several organic dairies in Western MA and southern NH and have several distribution points throughout the eastern part of the state. It's pasture based, so butter from cows eating fresh growing grass in the spring and fall is high in vitamins. You can see it b/c the butter is so yellow it's practically orange. I get several lbs. at a time and freeze it.

Also you can order here, it's shipped frozen:
http://www.organicpastures.com/

Or butter oil here: http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/pr.../ct/1/pid/1050

Raw milk sources near you here:
http://www.realmilk.org
http://www.eatwild.com/products/index.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
As far as fat free, well, I think that's the opposite of Mercola's take on it, isn't it?

Yep.
http://www.mercola.com/2001/mar/31/butter.htm

This makes me crazy, I wish all the nutritional "experts" could agree for goodness sakes.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
*Jane*, Thanks for the poop link! That was helpful, I had tried to tell the ND that I thought his stringy poops a few weeks ago was yeast related and she blew it off, HA I was right. Still don't know how to intrepret the current poop. this am it was that pretty yellow again...

You know I am trying to see the positive in this as well. Finally this weekend it clicked for me that DUH the purpose of eating is to sustain our bodies, that is pretty important. I guess I always knew this, but we really do not make that connection often enough. I am excited to read Price's book, althouhg I am wondering what other food I love will I no longer be able to eat!!

I hated to read about your lil' guy! I do hope you guys get things figured out. I was wondering is there anyway you guys could do baths everyday, or would that bother the eczema too much? ... I can sure understand being frustrated, which really just makes me mad at myself. You have to take it easy on yourself as well!

Well, my oven has 20w max posted on the bulb, so I put my light in there with the thermometer, and am seeing how it is doing. It was a shy past 110 last time I checked, so a 45 w might be best for the long run. I have told dh that he has to eat some yogurt!

*Re: poop*
That's what we see too, a good one, a bad one... and it's hard to tie specifically to foods. I think yellow and soft in a BF babe is what you want right?

*Re: foods you like*
Well that's what's good about NT is that you can find yummy new foods that are way better for you!
*
Re: my guy*
Thank you for the sympathy








I was thinking that same thing... bathing everyday. I'm going to investigate die off a little more. Baths don't seem to bother his skin anymore. His skin is pretty good now, only the tops of his ankles that are rough.

*Re: taking it easy on myself*
Thank you again. You are absolutely right and I think I've been pretty gentle with myself considering. It's just been such a long road, over 2 years now struggling with all of these issues and both DH and I are just so, so tired. Then when I found out that the source of all this was me, it was, and still is, pretty hard to deal with.









Also it's hard to know what the best step is. I don't want to do anything to pull metals out until his gut is better. Which might not get better until the metals are out. But then again, it could all be just a gut problem that is causing him to no be able to detox properly in the first place, so once the gut's fixed, he could just detox on his own without any extraordinary intervention except excellent nutrition. (Hey, you're not the only one that rambles here!) :LOL

So therefore I'm plunging into the yogurt this week and going to try to do everything to help die off. (







, I forgot our batch was done 1.5 hrs ago, oh well, no biggie... )

Possibly more baths and also activated charcoal before bed.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

good luck to you Jane, I hope you guys get things figured out! It is so very frustrating, I am sure everyone thinks I am crazy. I keep thinking that I should just keep my mouth shut to everyone as far as what we are doing, as it changes so much, even I am barely keeping up.

It is hard also because as moms we blame ourself for everything. Well, I ate dairy while I was preggo. I wasn't aggressive enough when I thought there was a problem before. But, we do the best we can with what we have at the time.

This just makes me even madder at the moms, like pretty well everyone I know that just ff and give there baby whatever crappy food they are eating, because they ate whatever and are just "fine." Someitmes I think really spitfully and hope that they see the ramifications of this, I know that is terrible. However, it doesn't matter though if the ff baby has a zillion ear infections or what have you it will always be blamed on something else.

Then it seems that it shows everyone else that bf'ing really doesn't matter because of Luke's "issues." Of course imo a whole lot of people just ignore things, like it doesn't matter.

So, another one of my rambles.... just to say we are all just bumbling along trying to figure things out. You know at least we are aware and are trying, and damn we are trying hard.

I am very emotional, I think perhaps a "real" period is coming. Perhaps, that partially explains my mood!

our update:
yesterday and today thus far poops looking good(that pretty yellow color with a nice smell)! Finally, yesterday I was able to feed myself well all day, yipee~~ I am figuring this out kind of.... I think I will buy some ground turkey and make some sausage for breakfast, as I am craving some "normal type food. My weight is back up +5 lbs, so I am only down 5 total- so at 118 and I am 5 3.5, so not too bad- I really don't need to lose anymore though.

we have our yogurt in the oven, it took a bit longer than I thought to prepare, but was pretty easy! I hope it turns out, I have a 50 wt bulb, maintaining a temp of about 108, I tested it all night and it seems to be holding steady. I just made 1 qt in case I screw it up.

we slept pretty well last night, we all went to bed at 8:30! So, I am feeling much more rested!

still waiting on the book to come in....


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Hey tribe. I am anxiously waiting for BTVC from the library and really wish it would come soon.

Me and 10 mo old dd are battling thrush yet again. I can't stand this!! makes me just want to run to the doctors and ask for the drugs. But i am resisting and trying the GV and GSE and vinegar and acidophilos and all that.

But my question is this. So apparentely I have yeast issues. Okay major issues. I recall before I got pregnant a lot of vaginal bacterial infections, but haven't had one since.(knock on wood). And I am so addicted to sugar still (but now is no where compared to before I was preggo with the years on Mt. Dew and candy). Well lately the sugar attacks have been raging. I am constantly hungry. And what do I find myself eating. Yup chips and candy bars and craving pop but none in the house, and eating the heck out of my icecream (at least it's homemade right?). I just don't understand why I am having all these issues lately.

Today i wanted to lock myself in a room and hide from the kids (my dd and my cousins dd). I was a horrible meanie all day long. Even to the cats.

I really don't want to live this way anymore. But the sugar is everywhere.

So, how do I correct this yeast issue. Does SCD fix that?


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Yes, it is! You will be giving up the "white death". The yeast are thriving on it, so you crave it, creating the "vicious cycle." I am going through it now. I have been the worst mommy in the world, I have been a tyrant. It is supposed to be getting better, and it is, but it is taking time. I haven't received my book yet, so am waiting here as well...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Hey tribe. I am anxiously waiting for BTVC from the library and really wish it would come soon.

Me and 10 mo old dd are battling thrush yet again. I can't stand this!! makes me just want to run to the doctors and ask for the drugs. But i am resisting and trying the GV and GSE and vinegar and acidophilos and all that.

But my question is this. So apparentely I have yeast issues. Okay major issues. I recall before I got pregnant a lot of vaginal bacterial infections, but haven't had one since.(knock on wood). And I am so addicted to sugar still (but now is no where compared to before I was preggo with the years on Mt. Dew and candy). Well lately the sugar attacks have been raging. I am constantly hungry. And what do I find myself eating. Yup chips and candy bars and craving pop but none in the house, and eating the heck out of my icecream (at least it's homemade right?). I just don't understand why I am having all these issues lately.

Today i wanted to lock myself in a room and hide from the kids (my dd and my cousins dd). I was a horrible meanie all day long. Even to the cats.

I really don't want to live this way anymore. But the sugar is everywhere.

So, how do I correct this yeast issue. Does SCD fix that?

BTDT!!! I had a lot of thrush issues too.

Yes, just try the SCD and see if it will work for you. It is based on sound science and I can tell you from my experience it really does work. I couldn't believe that eating honey really doesn't give me digestive distress. And fruits are okay too. It was the grains, potatoes, rice, corn and sugar that was doing me in and now that I've found the SCD explanation it makes perfect sense.

Maybe you want to try the Intro Diet for a few days while you are waiting?
There's enough info. online to cobble together SCD legal food. But the book is great for really convincing you that the science is sound. And the reasoning behind it is essential to enable you to commit to doing it.
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ntro_diet2.htm

The cheesecake is plenty sweet to satisfy cravings. Yes it takes more work cooking everything, but you CAN have sweet treats on this diet without feeding the gut bugs (cake, cookies, pancakes, etc) especially once you do the Intro Diet and start changing the flora with the yogurt. www.scdrecipe.com

The homemade yogurt is a billion times more powerful than any probiotic capsule you can buy in a store.

Here is the explanation of the diet and how it works to change your intestinal flora:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i..._the_diet2.htm
http://www.pecanbread.com/scdscience.html


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I have kind of a weird question. I have an existing naturopath and also a homeopath that I've been seeing -- the homeopath actually all long distance for the past couple of years. The thing is, I haven't mentioned the SCD diet to either of them, yet, even though we've been on it for almost two weeks now and I just spoke to both of them this week. It's partly because I am afraid I couldn't defend it to them, and partially because I'm a little embarassed to bring up anything myself like a diet, because I don't want to challenge their authority. Have any of you run into this? I feel so silly for keep in a secret from them. It's like I'm afraid I would either have to give them up or the diet. Can you tell I have issues with confrontation?

Also, the homeopath says that ds's major tooth decay (he lost his top front four teeth at two, and already has another cavity at 2 1/2) is caused by malnutrition and that vitamins would overload his kidneys due to his young age, and that I should see a nutritionist. I can just see a nutritionist taking a look at his SCD diet and saying "he's not eating grains -- what a crime!" and reporting me to CPS or something. After all, he doesn't have Crohn's or colitis, or eczema, just sensory integration issues and food allergies.


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## Einley (Jul 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Genevieve, let us know if you have any questions









Thank you. I'm absorbing every bit of info from you gals that I possibly can. It is nice (but I guess not really) to read posts from other mamas that I can so relate to. There has been something off digestive-wise with my son since the day he was born (he is now four). This is not something the doctors have told me- this is something I know. He went through a battery of tests (allergy, upper gi, lower gi) that did not turn up anything (well allergies were that he is allergic to egg, dairy, peanut, corn and possibly wheat). So now he is four and he still has diarrhea. I cannot find the help I need here locally and I don't know where to look. He is going to a chiro, and I am giving him probiotics, enymes and I tried to do a liver cleansing. I feel helpless and so sorry for my son. I am going to keep reading and learning more from all of you!


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

*pookietooth*, I am nervous as well to bring up SCD, to anyone. We had a first visit to the ND a week or so ago and she pretty much recommended to stay away from all carbs and all sugar, I brought up SCD and she said it wouldn't be good because you need to stay away from all carbs, so I don't think she knew about it. So, I am debating even going back to her, as I can order my own supplements just fine. However, for me it was just nice to have an actual dr. confirm my suspiciousions and not blow me off. So, I have no advice on what to do, as I am not sure myself. I am not sure I would bother for the dietician, she is saying he has problems with malnutrition, and he cannot handle vitamins, so what's wrong with getting stuff the old fashioned way through food? I guess that's what they want you to see the dietician for? Yeah, there is no way I would bring this up to a regular dietician. I think I woudl just keep studying on nutrition myself, try to get him the nutrients he needs etc. I would think the issue with not getting the nutrients he needs is probably due to malapsorption from leaky gut? That's probably already the answer you have came up with, so it won't matter what they suggest until you fix the gut.

*genevieve*, I am right there with you it is so hard, watching them and not knowing what to do. My son's digestion is off as well, I can tell you exactly what he eats by looking at his diaper! However, I know from dh and my medical history; extensive antibiotic use, bc for me, both formula fed- that our guts are not great and lil' man undoubtedly inherited that. So, we are going down this path hoping that we figure things out along the way!

our update;
well, my yogurt was done last night! I had to force myself to stop eating it, it was so yummy! I added a little bit of honey, but it hardly needed it! I am looking into the cheesecake recipe, now I wish I would have made more! Oh, and lil' man woke up in the best mood ever, I am crossing my fingers it was the yogurt! Dh said he would try it if I add some strawberries and chocolate- I know that is half-way defeating the purpose, but it is a start!

I had another crappy day, was sooooo tired and grumpy. I was reading in my book, Fats that Kill, Fats that Heal about that being symptoms of coming off the allergenic or troublesome foods, I didn't know about the being tired. I am have been so tired all week even though I am going to bed early. Hoping I move through this part soon...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Jennifer,*

I totally understand... my relationship with my ND has ended b/c I just didn't feel like she took our case seriously enough. Or knew enough to help us. Maybe the things she normally tries helps others, but we seem to be a special case.

Check out this post from the Sept thread with links to email an ND information about SCD if you want.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...0&postcount=13

I think reading the scientific reasoning behind the diet will appeal to them more. It *is* hard to explain. I mean I've read the book about 80 times and still struggle with putting it into a cohesive, short description for others!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*The Healing Power of Bone Broths*

I'd like to challenge everyone reading to make some homemade stock this week: fish, chicken, lamb or beef.

Not only does it contain much needed minerals (calcium, magnesium, potassium) in easily absorbed electrolyte form, but also the secret ingredient so good for healing the gut: gelatin.

Quoting from "Nourishing Traditions":

Quote:

Hydrophilic colloids attract digestive juices for rapid and effective digestion....The same property by which gelatin attracts water to form desserts, like Jello, allows it to attract digestive juices to the surface of cooked food particles.

The public is generally unaware of the large amount of research on the beneficial effects of gelatin taken with food. Gelatin acts first and foremost as an aid to digestion and has been used successfully in the treatment of many intestinal disorders, including hyperacidity, colitis and Crohn's disease... anemia...diabetes, muscular dystrophy and even cancer.

Other important ingredients that go into broth are the components of cartilage, _(Jane note: anyone hear of the arthritis cure of taking glucosimine and chondroitin supplements? they are abundant in cartilage.)_ which recently have been used with remarkable results in the treatment of cancer and bone disorders, and of collagen, used to treat rheumatoid arthritis and other ailments.

Jewish penicillin... modern research has confirmed that broth helps prevent and mitigate infectious diseases.

The test of whether your stock contains liberal amounts of gelatin is carried out by chilling the broth. It should thicken even to the point of jelling completely. If your broth is still runny, you may add a little powdered gelatin to thicken it. Bear in mind, however, that some people have reactions to commercially prepared gelatin, which will contain small amounts of free glutamic acid, similar to MSG.

...remedying infant diarrhea...

Chicken soup has a natural ingredient which feeds, repairs and calms the mucous lining in the small intestine. This inner lining is the beginning and ending of the nervous system. It is easily pulled away from the intestine through too many laxatives...food additives...parasites. [It] heals the nerves, improves digestion, reduces allergies, relaxes and gives strength.
Have I convinced you?









BTVC doesn't go into much detail about stock and gelatin, but it is not a coincidence that the SCD Intro Diet includes homemade chicken soup and gelatin.

NT recommends this gelatin:
http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/pr.../ct/4/pid/1054
I forget the reasons for using it over Knox Gelatine, but I know there were good ones.









My general procedure follows. I usually make in a stainless steel stockpot but a crockpot can also be used. It is not expensive. A pack of 4 chicken legs at Whole Foods (aka Whole Paycheck) is $3.25. I made incredible lamb stock last week from $5.50 in grassfed lamb shanks.

HOW TO MAKE:

If you are using beef bones, NT recommends roasting in oven first until browned.
Soak bones or chicken legs and vegetables desired (onions, carrots) with 2T vinegar per qt. of water for one hour before heating (chelates more minerals out).
Bring to low boil.
Skim froth.
Keep at barely a simmer for 6-24 hours.
Strain and refrigerate.
Remove fat.

After straining, you can reduce it for an hour or so at a lively boil to make a more concentrated stock. Then freeze in ice cube trays. Pop out and transfer to a freezer container. The concentrated stock or what the French term _demi-glace_, is really delicious. I usually do this and then serve DS shredded chicken, lamb or beef in their respective concentrated stock, he won't eat soup.

$29... pffft! Make it at home!
http://ww2.williams-sonoma.com/cat/p...2Fhme&flash=on


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Did I scare everyone off yesterday? :LOL


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

LOL! I'm still here....

We eat homemade chicken soup all the time!


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## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

trying to post, but max is fascinated with the keyboard and loves to 'help'


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Liane!

Awwww Jessica, those new pics of Max are absolutely heartbreakingly cute... Those eyes!!!!


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
*The Healing Power of Stock*

Quoting from "Nourishing Traditions":


The part you had about cartilage - I have a friend who is very into NT - this must be why she recommends buying whole organic free-range chickens with the feet still attached - she told me "feet make great stock" - LOL !

Too bad Evan is allergic to chicken and beef, and I don't like lamb or fish. What about turkey broth ? Is that healing too ?

Linda


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

YES! Feet are supposed to be great and are given special mention in NT.

I don't see why turkey stock wouldn't be great, just didn't think of that... I've never done turkey for some reason.

Lamb stock is soooo good, extremely rich and yummy if you boil it down. Maybe it's b/c I'm part Irish and it's one of my traditional foods why I love it so much.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

still here! I have a bunch of stock in my freezer, turkey, beef, and chicken. We will definitley be eating more now that it is cooler and also it is so easy and I didn't realize it was so healthy. Thanks for the info Jane, very interesting! I guess that is why my soup was not moving (other than a jiggle) the other day!


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Quote:

Bear in mind, however, that some people have reactions to commercially prepared gelatin, which will contain small amounts of free glutamic acid, similar to MSG.
Maybe that is the reason the knox isn't as good as the other broths you can buy that you know come from well raised cows and fish, etc?

The healing power of broth...ds woke up sick this morning, and I had chicken broth simmering in my crock pot and fed him some. He's been fine so far the rest of the day! (knock on wood)

I've been back in the game for the past few days. Thanks for sharing your success with doing your yogurt in the oven with a 50 watt light, crunchymama. I bought a 60 watt light to use and made 4 quarts of yogurt at once in my oven, and the temp stayed right where it should the whole time. Much cheaper way to do it!









Okay, you guys have got to help me stick to it longer than 2 weeks! I never seem to be able to stick to these things longer than that. This diet is really easy to stick to as long as you have the things you need at home. It sucks when you are out though, you just have to be hungry a few hours longer, because there is basically no foods that I trust to eat out. Who knows what they add to their stuff. I just need to start being more prepared in my bag with portable food. I don't know what though. Oh well, we try to be around home as much as possible anyway.


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Thanks, Jane, for the stock recipe. I've never made it with the vinegar before. I'll have to try it.

All of a sudden, the health food store here started carrying raw milk. I bought some and made the 24 hr yogurt using a food warmer I found at the thrift store for $3.00. I had some this morning. It definitely had an effect on my digestion. I am hoping dd's face won't break out if I start eating it. I will just have to wait and see. I'm also on my 2nd day of no chocolate and no sugar, which to you SCD's, won't seem like much, but I had really gone off the deep end with it.

You all sound like you are doing well on the diet. How's Moneca and her little one?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

We're still on the diet, ds and I that is (dh has been cheating left and right, but not in front of ds thankfully). I am amazed that my chocolate cravings have gotten better, nuts seem to quelch it for some reason (the fat?). I am still getting migraines, but not as bad. I do hate always having to carry food everywhere. Any ideas for easy portable snacks and meals?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, do you keep the soak water for the stock with the vinegar in it? And what do you do with the fat, just toss it?


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

I wanted a grocery list of items to always have on hand, so I went through the BTVC recipes and wrote down all the ingredients in the recipes, since I noticed that most ingredients are repeated in all the recipes.
It's not perfect, but I thought it might be helpful for others.

SCD grocery list

FRUIT:
apples
raisins
pears
lemon
lime
pineapple
orange
cranberries
blueberries
raspberries (fresh, frozen)
bananas
california dates
peaches
crushed, unsweetened pineapple
unsweetened coconut

VEGETABLES
onions
carrots
garlic
tomatoes
green peppers (pgs 90, 93, 99, 119)
cucumber
parsley
celery
cabbage
eggplant (pg 92)
ginger
red onion
cilantro
red bell pepper (pg 95)
lettuce
zucchini
green onion (pgs 99, 106)
acorn squash
spaghetti squash
pumpkin
cauliflower
broccoli (pg 119)
mushrooms
peas

LIQUIDS
dry white wine
apple cidar
tomato juice
vinegar (white, cider)
frozen orange juice concentrate
milk and cream to make yogurt

SPICES
cinnamon
dry mustard powder
tarragon
basil (fresh, dried)
bay leaf
italian spices
nutmeg

OTHER
peanut butter (no additives)
almonds (whole, slivered)
almond flour
walnuts
pecans
honey
unflavored gelatin
vanilla
baking soda
chicken with bones for stock
chicken breast
butter
olive oil
beef bones for stock
ground beef
dry curd cottage cheese
cheddar cheese
100% pure parmesan cheese
brick cheese, colby cheese
havarti cheese
eggs
white beans
lentils
canned anchovies, tuna, salmon
canned, fresh, or frozen fish (halibut, flounder, sole, shrimp, lobster, crabmeat)


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Nice list. Looking at that the diet doesn't seem too bad. Still waiting for the book.

I tried making yogurt twice this month and both times it didn't turn out. Mostly because I forget I put it in the oven (I will have to try the 60 w light bulb if I can figure out how to change it) and so it sits there for hours at too low a temp. The other time I made it in a cooler with hot water and it still didn't turn out. It turns out all slimy. Like I can pour it out and it is all connected slime!! What temp should you be incubating it for? I thought 95 was ok? That is what it was in the cooler and it didn't work ( but that might be the time I tried only heating my milk to 110 to preserve the enzymes. What does turning into slime mean? To many bad bacteria? Not enough starter? I usually use Brown Cow or Seven Stars, but they all have bifidum in them. I don't really like the idea of Dannon for the fact that it isn't organic (and conventional milk icks me out). Is the yogurmet starter a good one? I guess I don't like the idea of it because it is a powder.

Ok one last question. I am still having my thrush issues. Major pain here and I am about ready to go to the doctor and get diflucan. I just want it gone so that I can nurse without agonizing pain. I am just worried the diflucan will end up making it worse in the long run. What do you all think?
Right now I am treating with GSE and vinegar and coconut oil (I just did a 3 day GV round, but it is a little too rough on my nipples).

Thanks.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

*aristicat*, on the yogurt the temp needs to be 100-110. I'm not sure about the slime.... When you first heat the milk it has to be to 185, then cool to 108-112, then to the oven for 24 hrs. I am not thrilled that the Dannon is not organic, but it is my option right now. I did use organic milk though. I wish I could help on the thrush, but I really have no clue. I think though that the SCD would do wonders for it, especially the yogurt.

*tweetybirds*, thanks for the list, that is helpful. We are still trying to figure things out here!

as far as snacks to carry, we are new to this and I just haven't been eating out, or not eating perfect; I had a plain chicken breast once as I was desperately hungry.

*sarah*- it is huge giving up the chocolate and sugar, those to me are by far the 2 biggest things! I so miss chocolate! I did find a recipe today for toffee, which is another love! Oh, and I made some SCD macaroons which were to die for (recipe from pecanbread).

oh, thought I would post a recipe for pumpkin soup, I haven't thoroughly went through it to check all the ingredients, but it looked like it could be made SCD legal easily.

Quote:

Tunisian Pumpkin Soup
From Moosewood Restaurant Daily Special

2 c chopped onions
2 T olive oil
½ c peeled and sliced carrots
½ c peeled and sliced parsnips
1 ½ t salt
2 ½ c water or vegetable stock *
1 ¼ c unsweetened apple juice *
½ c tomato juice ^
1 t ground cumin
½ t ground nutmeg
½ t ground cinnamon
½ t paprika
1 ¾ c cooked pumpkin (15-ounce can)=

Spice Swirl
2 T olive oil
1 t minced garlic
4 t ground coriander
1 t ground caraway+
¼ t cayenne
2 T fresh lemon juice
2 T minced fresh cilantro+
1/8 t salt

In a soup pot, sauté the onions in the oil until they become translucent,
about 10 minutes. Stir in the carrots, parsnips, and salt and continues to
sauté for about 5 minutes. Add the water or stock, apple and tomato juices,
cumin, nutmeg, cinnamon, and paprika. Cover the pot and bring to a boil;
then reduce the heat and simmer until the vegetables are tender. Strain out
the vegetables with a slotted spoon and puree in a blender or food
processor. Return pureed vegetables to the broth, add the pumpkin, and stir
well. Gently reheat, if necessary.

To make the swirl, heat the oil in a small skillet and sauté the garlic on
medium heat for 1 minute . Add the coriander, caraway, and cayenne and
continue to cook, stirring constantly. When the mixture begins to bubble, 2
to 3 minutes, remove it from the heat and transfer to a small bowl. Sitr in
the lemon juice, cilantro and salt..

Ladle the soup into bowls and top each with some spice swirl.
oh, and even our local grocer has had a fabulous selection of organic squash! I have been having sqaghetti squash with a homemade spaghetti sauce, which makes me feel like I am cheating. tomorrow I hope to modify a pumpkin pie recipe to use some of the butternut squash I have!

I have tried dairy and am not sure how lil' man, or me is tolerating it. oh, how I miss the cheese! I really need to cut it out though. I think the yogurt will be ok though.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Hi all. I am completely new to this thread, and very interested in learning about healing the gut. I think my family really needs a nutrition overhaul, even though none of us has obvious food allergies. I do think food has an enormous effect on behavior, mood and health. I have to say that this thread is completely overwhelming! It's going to take me forever to read through it (and all the other Healing the Gut threads). So for now I'll just be







: and probably be back with questions.


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## Pilgrim (Dec 12, 2004)

Hey y'all!

I just wanted to post an intro and subscribe to this thread. We've been down that long and trecherous journey of food allergies. We're on a very strict elimination diet for the moment. I've been considering doing SCD for a long time now, but haven't gotten my hiney in gear to do it. Partly because I'm unsure that it will help, and partly because it means giving up even *more* foods!

But the other day, we went to a new chiropractor who uses muscle testing for food allergies. He's been doing it for 40 years and is very experienced. He did a muscle test on our DD, and looked me straight in the eye and told me he found NO food allergies!! I was astonished and amazed. I argued with him "oh no! This girl is DEFINITELY allergic!! I carry an epi-pen!" and on and on.

Now, the visit was a brief one simply because the appointment was actually for DH and I explained to the Dr. that we'd be bringing DD in later that week. He said "oh set her in your lap and let's go ahead and clear her for something." That's what started it all. We're going back in today for her "real" visit.

So here I am thinking "what if all this time it was REALLY TRULY only gut related and not food allergies (of the true sense) at all???" So now I'm just on the verge of beginning the SCD. We will be seeing a nutritional therapist next week, and I want to get her opinions before starting. And also, I wanted to get some advice as to the best way to get going. One thing I do know is that before beginning a new diet, I must come up with some meals and snacks and stock the pantry AHEAD of time. Boy have I messed that up in the past, and it's really disheartening to want to eat something and find that there's nothing to eat!

OK, enough blabbering. Oh, I haven't yet read the past thread. If I were to try to do that first, I'd never get my intro-post done!


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

Hi Pilgrim! Welcome to the thread! (LOL as if I can welcome people, we're not even on the SCD) Anyway, just wanted to point out that starting the diet will allow you to eat a variety of foods that you would not be able to on an elimination diet, so I think it should be more appealing to people who can't stand to give things up! For one thing, eggs, nuts, and dairy are allowed after your body has healed a bit. I am also skeptical of allergy tests and whatnot, they seem so random and unreliable. Good luck with figuring out what works best for you!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tweetybirds2*
Okay, you guys have got to help me stick to it longer than 2 weeks! I never seem to be able to stick to these things longer than that. This diet is really easy to stick to as long as you have the things you need at home. It sucks when you are out though, you just have to be hungry a few hours longer, because there is basically no foods that I trust to eat out. Who knows what they add to their stuff. I just need to start being more prepared in my bag with portable food. I don't know what though. Oh well, we try to be around home as much as possible anyway.

Hang in there!!









I always try to make double batches of cookies/muffins and freeze small 2 people portions to grab on the way out the door. And fruit. Although with DS still needing to have his fruit cooked, that's hard now. Cheese is a great easy snack too if you can do it. In a pinch, I grab DS's waffles


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## Pilgrim (Dec 12, 2004)

hey tweetybirds2! didn't know you were here too!


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I always try to make double batches of cookies

Hi Jane,

What cookie recipes do you like/use?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I made up my own recipe:

*Almond Cookies*

1 1/2 cups finely ground almond flour
1 egg
1/4 c. honey
1/4 c. coconut oil
1 teasp. vanilla, or
1/2 teasp. almond extract, or
1/2 teasp. anise extract, or
1 teasp. vanilla and 3/4 teasp. cinnamon

On a parchment paper lined baking sheet, drop by teaspoons and flatten out.

Bake 350F for 10-12 mins. Best if they are not too browned. Store in frig. or freezer.

They come out soft. If you like crispy, you can dry out in a barely warm oven or dehydrator.

I'm trying these now, let you know tomorrow how they come out.
http://www.grainfreegourmet.com/sandcookies.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
Thanks, Jane, for the stock recipe. I've never made it with the vinegar before. I'll have to try it.

All of a sudden, the health food store here started carrying raw milk. I bought some and made the 24 hr yogurt using a food warmer I found at the thrift store for $3.00. I had some this morning. It definitely had an effect on my digestion. I am hoping dd's face won't break out if I start eating it. I will just have to wait and see. I'm also on my 2nd day of no chocolate and no sugar, which to you SCD's, won't seem like much, but I had really gone off the deep end with it.

You all sound like you are doing well on the diet. How's Moneca and her little one?









Sarah

How's your bunny's face today? Any effects from the yogurt?

Good luck on your diet changes, believe me I hear you, I'm only on SCD b/c I finally reached a point where I had to be. Thankfully it's a pretty pleasant diet compared to the Elim Diet, that's for sure!

Moneca and Sierra are still dealing with some physical digestive issues, she's been MIA lately. I miss her


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Jane, do you keep the soak water for the stock with the vinegar in it? And what do you do with the fat, just toss it?

Yes, definately b/c the vinegar is to dissolve more minerals into the stock, you can even add more. The finished stock never tastes a bit like vinegar at all.

Depends on the fat, sometimes I keep a bit of it, like lamb or beef to make the meat very moist but throw away most of it. Chicken: there is not much and it's soft even when chilled, so I just stir it back into the reduced stock.

Although I probably should be using all the fat b/c it has vitamin D I think?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tweetybirds2*
I wanted a grocery list of items to always have on hand, so I went through the BTVC recipes and wrote down all the ingredients in the recipes, since I noticed that most ingredients are repeated in all the recipes.
It's not perfect, but I thought it might be helpful for others.


That's an AWESOME list, thank you!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Nice list. Looking at that the diet doesn't seem too bad. Still waiting for the book.

I tried making yogurt twice this month and both times it didn't turn out. Mostly because I forget I put it in the oven (I will have to try the 60 w light bulb if I can figure out how to change it) and so it sits there for hours at too low a temp. The other time I made it in a cooler with hot water and it still didn't turn out. It turns out all slimy. Like I can pour it out and it is all connected slime!! What temp should you be incubating it for? I thought 95 was ok? That is what it was in the cooler and it didn't work ( but that might be the time I tried only heating my milk to 110 to preserve the enzymes. What does turning into slime mean? To many bad bacteria? Not enough starter? I usually use Brown Cow or Seven Stars, but they all have bifidum in them. I don't really like the idea of Dannon for the fact that it isn't organic (and conventional milk icks me out). Is the yogurmet starter a good one? I guess I don't like the idea of it because it is a powder.

Ok one last question. I am still having my thrush issues. Major pain here and I am about ready to go to the doctor and get diflucan. I just want it gone so that I can nurse without agonizing pain. I am just worried the diflucan will end up making it worse in the long run. What do you all think?
Right now I am treating with GSE and vinegar and coconut oil (I just did a 3 day GV round, but it is a little too rough on my nipples).

Thanks.

Slimy yogurt means there are yeasts present b/c it wasn't at a high enough temp. to prevent their growth.

I totally understand re: organic dairy, but you will use only a small amount of Dannon. And I use Yogourmet powder and it's never failed me yet, I like it. Generally I also stay away from powdered things too (damaged proteins and fats, not healthy) but it is mostly dried bacteria, only a teaspoon full per packet.

I did all that for thrush too... only a day of hell on Diflucan though, OMG, I was sooooo sick to my stomach. It's very hard on your liver too. I don't know if it kills off good bacteria too. But I remember the pain, it was awful.

And nothing worked as good as diet changes. Be careful with GSE b/c I know that kills off your good bacteria as well as the bad. Unless you are using a lot of probiotics to replace them, and are still eating sugar and other hard to digest carbs, I think it could lead to making the problem worse.

How much coconut oil are you taking? 3 1/2 tablespoons/day or more are recommended. Or 10 oz of full fat coconut milk (make a smoothie).

If the yogurt is too much of a headache, you could try probiotic capsules (a lot) for now, until you perfect your yogurt making system and eating plan.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sledg*
Hi all. I am completely new to this thread, and very interested in learning about healing the gut. I think my family really needs a nutrition overhaul, even though none of us has obvious food allergies. I do think food has an enormous effect on behavior, mood and health. I have to say that this thread is completely overwhelming! It's going to take me forever to read through it (and all the other Healing the Gut threads). So for now I'll just be







: and probably be back with questions.









It's great to see you here!!









I know re: the size of these threads are ridiculous...









In a nutshell, I think some of the best things you can do for health are:

1. Make homemade *yogurt* and *stock*, and eat both frequently.

2. Get everyone in family on *cod liver oil*. http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...dliveroil.html

3. Get some *raw milk* if you can.

4. Stop using refined sugar and use *natural sugars* with the minerals intact: maple syrup, honey, Rapadura, molasses, date sugar. (White sugar leeches minerals from your body and suppresses immune system...so not only does it not provide nutrition, it takes away nutrition from the good things you do eat!)

5. Ditto white flour and processed cereals. *Learn to prepare whole grains properly:* http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html

6. Read the incredible site www.westonaprice.org and his book "*Nutrition and Physical Degeneration*" http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html

7. Read "*Nourishing Traditions*" by Sally Fallon.

Your family's immune systems will get enormous benefit... and the connection between health and nutrition will start to click. We do have great power over our health, and it's all in what we eat.

The raw milk co-op I belong to picks up in Weston. I pick up every other week. You make drives to the organic dairy in Western MA twice a year (actually have belonged six months and haven't been yet!) Local drives to Tewksbury every 6 weeks or so for the Weston group. We can also get free range eggs. And cheese, cream and butter, all grass fed. Pastured meats when we make a special order. Let me know if that interests you!








Even my condensed version is sooooo long!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pilgrim*
Hey y'all!

I just wanted to post an intro and subscribe to this thread. We've been down that long and trecherous journey of food allergies. We're on a very strict elimination diet for the moment. I've been considering doing SCD for a long time now, but haven't gotten my hiney in gear to do it. Partly because I'm unsure that it will help, and partly because it means giving up even *more* foods!

But the other day, we went to a new chiropractor who uses muscle testing for food allergies. He's been doing it for 40 years and is very experienced. He did a muscle test on our DD, and looked me straight in the eye and told me he found NO food allergies!! I was astonished and amazed. I argued with him "oh no! This girl is DEFINITELY allergic!! I carry an epi-pen!" and on and on.

Now, the visit was a brief one simply because the appointment was actually for DH and I explained to the Dr. that we'd be bringing DD in later that week. He said "oh set her in your lap and let's go ahead and clear her for something." That's what started it all. We're going back in today for her "real" visit.

So here I am thinking "what if all this time it was REALLY TRULY only gut related and not food allergies (of the true sense) at all???" So now I'm just on the verge of beginning the SCD. We will be seeing a nutritional therapist next week, and I want to get her opinions before starting. And also, I wanted to get some advice as to the best way to get going. One thing I do know is that before beginning a new diet, I must come up with some meals and snacks and stock the pantry AHEAD of time. Boy have I messed that up in the past, and it's really disheartening to want to eat something and find that there's nothing to eat!

OK, enough blabbering. Oh, I haven't yet read the past thread. If I were to try to do that first, I'd never get my intro-post done!









Hey yourself and welcome!









(and Liane, you made me :LOL of course you can you goof!)

WOW, that story is *very* interesting. I'm especially glad you are here b/c I know so little about this side of healing and all, I'll be following your experiences with much interest.

Elaine Gottschall, author of the SCD, has some very interesting things to say about allergies, and she certainly had the scientific background to back them up. I didn't know about the SCD when I first posed my question, "Are Allergies Really Allergies?", the thread that started this tribe... but it seemed to answer everything that had been nagging at me since I started reading about leaky gut.

The best place to start is reading the BTVC book, or scouring the site. There is enough there to learn about the diet and start it.
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i..._the_diet2.htm
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ntro_diet2.htm

Great excerpt from the book about celiac disease, one of the worst food allergies you can have!
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ac_disease.htm

Also Pecanbread, which was created for kids with ASD, but has a lot of good info.
http://www.pecanbread.com/scdscience.html

And then so many SCD recipe sites in the links, can have you busy for days. But first you start with the Intro diet for 2-5 days. Then aftewards, start certain things like nut flour and nut butter slowly depending on how damaged the gut is.

At first it's recommended to cook all your veggies and fruits (ex. bananas). So plan to make big batches of applesauce or pearsauce in crockpot. I just made a big bag of frozen peaches, reduced the juices a bit til syrupy and we ate it for several days, yummy. Spaghetti squash is a godsend! All squashes really, you will find that you can use butternut squash 800 different ways. Thankfully it is fall and now we have acorn, delicata, etc. to choose from.

I like the Midas Gold pancakes/waffles recipe in the book and also it's posted on Pecanbread.com. The muffin recipe in the book, also can adapt that one for bread, unsweetened and sweetened banana bread.

If you do want to discuss with a nutritionist, I'd read the book and bring it with you for the research study references.

Personally I always thought nuts aggravated my IBS for a long long time. To the point where I was convinced I had an allergy. It wasn't the nuts, it was the grains and the sugars impeding my digestion so that sending down some whole nuts was impossible for them to break down!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Whew! I'm caught up! :LOL


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Welcome to All!!!

we are still plugging along here, wanted to post another recipe for ya'll

Pumpkin Pie

2 c. pumpkin cooked and mashed (or other squash I used butternut)
1 c. milk(I used homemade yogurt)
1/2 c honey
2 eggs beaten
cinnamon, nutmeg, cloves- I used Pumpkin Pie Spice with a little clove

Puree in blender, pour in pie pan, cook at 350 for about an hour until knife inserted comes out clean. Very scrumptious! Dh even liked he thought it was "real" pumpkin pie!

I still haven't received my book yet! I am getting a bit discouraged. My hormones are so out of whack, I have been depressed and grumpy. We want a baby so bad! But with trying to get him healed it really isn't possible right now I am thinking it might never happen... Luke is supposed to be ebf'ing, but keeps find crumbs of whatever on the floor- I do sweep everyday!


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## mimi! (Aug 27, 2004)

Hi everyone,
I just heard of this tribe and thought I'd join! What a great discussion









I've had problems with candida and allergies for a long time now, on and off, at times I'm able to quash it. I'm bf'ing right now, so no major killing can go on, and I'm finding that enteric coated bacteria are working best, but I'm going though a bottle a week just to keep the good bacteria numbers up. Its a bit of a battle, and I'm avoiding all my allergy foods too (dairy, corn, wheat, rice). I've tried Garden of Life probiotics and they worked for a bit but no longer. What are some of your favs?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, I sure wish ds would eat squash, he won't go near it unless it's in the form of pumpkin pie, and I'm even wondering about that now. And he hates pureed food of any kind, will not eat applesauce or any other sauce. He sort of eats steamed apples and pears, but much prefers them raw, likes to chew things. Sigh. He will eat the cashew and pecan muffins I've made, maybe I could try a pumpkin muffin.
I made some beef stock, and even though I cooked it overnight, it still didn't gel when cooled. Also, I had some today, and I think it triggered a migraine. The beef bones were from a regular supermarket, could they have had MSG added to them?


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## arcenciel (Nov 26, 2001)

: Hi. Just subscribing while I hope for time to read through at least this month's thread....


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Crunchy mama-
On the pumpkin pie...Is there any sort of crust? Oris it kinda like a cooked pudding?
Sounds wonderful!


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Hey Pilgrim! Glad you're joining in. Let us know how the other appointment goes!

Crunchymama I hope your book gets there soon! So did you mean that you are wanting to ttc again?

Ugh! I've been MIA for the past few days--going through major detox! Dang. I guess that means it's working? I didn't eat all day yesterday, just water and a little broth in the evening. This morning I made the homemade jello and had a little of that. I think I might have jumped into things to quickly this time.
The x-factor butter oil came the other day too, and I took some of that, so maybe that stuff is powerful too and caused the healing detox to come on.

We've been unable to conceive since I had my 3 yo. So I'm hoping that healing will help with that too. Although I may have some blocked tubes or something like that from a surgery I had, so I might go to the doctor in a few months to check that out too.

Carry on!


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
How's your bunny's face today? Any effects from the yogurt?

Moneca and Sierra are still dealing with some physical digestive issues, she's been MIA lately.


Hi Jane,

Her face looks pretty good... I've noticed my nose was stuffy so I wondered if it was the yogurt... I was mixing it w/ homemade granola-not SCD legal-but I haven't taken that plunge yet. But the last two days, I didn't eat any yogurt, and it is just as stuffy! So maybe it is due to yeast?

I feel sad to hear that about Moneca & Sierra. I hope they are okay!

Love the recipes! That pumpkin soup sounds fantastic!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

*Intro*

Hey ladies. I read this thread when I can and have posted a time or two and thought I'd put in a proper intro.

I had my son in April of 2002, c/s, 2 rounds of antibiotics, one the usual round, one because of an infection brewing in my abdominal tissues. Very bad BFing issues. Didn't get him to latch until 3 1/2 weeks postpartum. He had a jaw problem as it turned out so he didn't even bottle feed well. I had depression in pg and then postpartum on top of it with a baby who couldn't feed.

By 4 weeks postpartum, I had read everything there was to read about problems in BFing that I realized my son had thrush even though he didn't have the white spots in his mouth. It also explained why it hurt so much to pump. The BFing is a whole other excruciating story, but we worked it out with a great deal of stress.

From one month postpartum for the following 9 months I treated the thrush as a topical problem -- Nystatin, GV, cut down on grains and sugar. It kept coming back. I would wash all of the laundry again, boil the bras, etc. Every 4-6 weeks, there it was again.

At 11 months pp, I was nursing and had shooting pains in my breasts. Called the chiro. She put me on a diet: no grains, no fruit, no high starch veggies (potatoes, beans, etc), no fermented foods, no high mold foods. You all know the drill. I followed it for 9 months. (Oh and I looked great because I got into a size 10 for the first time since I was in preschool or some such but that's a whole other story.)

I used some anti-fungals as well, but not that diligently really. I had a bad reaction to GSE so I backed off the anti-fungal angle.

I tried to add yogurt about 6 weeks into the diet. I bought a good organic yogurt and had a bad reaction. Some months later I tried to culture my own, loved it, and ate it in large quantities. I started kefir as well and have given grains out to just about the entire MDC community (until my postmaster made this difficult and that too is a whole other story). The kefir made a notable difference. Or perhaps it was the combo of yogurt and kefir. Who knows. (I use Yogourmet starter as well.)

The approach worked for the most part. A year or so later I would still get occasional nipple pain, but it would go away with one treatment of GV. Sometimes it would go away untreated. Hard to imagine not treating nipple thrush, but it was apparently a mild case at that point.

I'm 2 1/2 years out from the start of the diet now and have stayed fairly diligent in terms of not reintroducing the very bad stuff. I spent a year in there eating a whole lot of fruit and some whole grains and gained back my weight







:

In an effort to lose some of my "winter coat" as I called it, that turned into a summer coat and now it's fall, I tried the diet again figuring I lost a whole lot quickly before, why not again. I cut out every smidgen of grain and fruit and just kept in cream and butter in the dairy department. I also had gotten myself seriously caffeine addicted in August so I kept that in too only because you can only drive yourself so crazy with diet changes. Didn't lose the weight. Talked to the chiro. He said it was my Ph level -- too acid. I didn't admit my caffeine addiction







: but decided that it was time to cut that too to fit into my pants. But I digress.

My point is that I did the diet again and the die-off symptoms were minimal. I had severe die-off symptoms for over a month back when I started the diet in 2003 and this time it was no big deal. In fact, it was such a small deal that I am wondering why in the heck I ever got off of it. Heck, at least I'd have pants that fit if I had stayed a little more true to it and my gut would be in better shape.

In this current round, I had no nipple thrush pop either until yesterday. I thought I was in the clear. But we've had a lot of stress in Sep and OCt and have been without a hot water for two weeks. Sitting in your own stink for two weeks does not help in the bacteria department. In any case, I still have a bit of a case, and am still a work in progress. But the more I read about all of this, the more I realize that we're all going to be a work in progress, forever.

So I was reading a book the other day "Depression Cured at Last" by Sherry Rogers and she mentioned that the gut can't be balanced if you have some key underlying nutritional deficiencies. I don't have the book here, but I am writing this so that I remember to find the quote and report back to you all. That in itself would mean it's a long road for all of us. It's hard to get nourished with the gut problems, hard to get rid of the gut problems with the malnourishment.

And that's the very short version.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
I made some beef stock, and even though I cooked it overnight, it still didn't gel when cooled. Also, I had some today, and I think it triggered a migraine. The beef bones were from a regular supermarket, could they have had MSG added to them?
















When we have had conventional meat, I toss the bones. I doubt they would have MSG, but who knows what. Do you have access to a place that sells organic meat that has a butcher? The Whole Foods 2 hours from us does sell the bones, at $2/lb. Not cheap at all, but that's where I used to buy. We've got our own boy in the freezer now, so it's not an issue.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
My hormones are so out of whack, I have been depressed and grumpy. We want a baby so bad! But with trying to get him healed it really isn't possible right now I am thinking it might never happen... Luke is supposed to be ebf'ing, but keeps find crumbs of whatever on the floor- I do sweep everyday!

IKWYM. The baby planning part is the most painful of all of this. I went through many an emotional turmoil over this issue -- when would I be ready? Does my husband think we're ready? I cried a lot. I gave myself deadlines to be well. I didn't meet the deadlines. I stepped back to relax, decided we wouldn't be having more, gave away baby toys and diapers, and now it's anybody's guess. I'm still not ready 3 1/2 years pp. I had a m/c just over a year ago now at 9 weeks and was probably foolish to get pg in the first place. This all takes so much time and the amount of time is really out of our control to a large degree. We don't *really* know what's wrong exacty so we just forge ahead the best we can and recover in bits and pieces and come out better for it, but probably at a much later date than we ever expected.

And those crumbs on the floor just about put me over the edge many times. But it doesn't take much for a PPD/OCD mix to put you over the edge in the crumb department.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Ok one last question. I am still having my thrush issues. Major pain here and I am about ready to go to the doctor and get diflucan. I just want it gone so that I can nurse without agonizing pain. I am just worried the diflucan will end up making it worse in the long run. What do you all think?
Right now I am treating with GSE and vinegar and coconut oil (I just did a 3 day GV round, but it is a little too rough on my nipples).

Thanks.

How did you use the GV? When I first started I used too much. Now I just treat once a day after a nursing and before the biggest stretch of sleep for the child (easy for me now with a 3 1/2 year old). Cover your nipples with the GV and then when baby nurses again, baby will get it in mouth. Baby pretty much sucks most of it off which is why you want to put it on before the longest stretch of sleep so it's on your nipples for a while.

On Diflucan: I didn't do it because of the liver issue Jane mentioned. I think there is a 1% chance of some form of liver damage and a 1/10 of 1% or less of serious liver damage. If you go this route, I highly recommend the diet anyway because it is your diet and lifestyle that got you here and it will just bring you back again. Sorry for the bad news. So it might get you out of the nipple burn phase, but don't lose your motivation to treat the underlying problem.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Jane, do you keep the soak water for the stock with the vinegar in it? And what do you do with the fat, just toss it?

I just keep the fat in it and make the soup or whatever I'm making.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*

But my question is this. So apparentely I have yeast issues. Okay major issues. I recall before I got pregnant a lot of vaginal bacterial infections, but haven't had one since.(knock on wood). And I am so addicted to sugar still (but now is no where compared to before I was preggo with the years on Mt. Dew and candy). Well lately the sugar attacks have been raging. I am constantly hungry. And what do I find myself eating. Yup chips and candy bars and craving pop but none in the house, and eating the heck out of my icecream (at least it's homemade right?). I just don't understand why I am having all these issues lately.

I always had my worst cravings right before a thrush outbreak. They were irrational too -- stuff I didn't really think was good, like Supermarket doughnuts. I decided that it was the yeast making me crazy and getting me to eat the stuff. Adding more essential fatty acids to my diet helped with the cravings. Time helped a great deal as well.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Jane - Have you posted your son's story anywhere? I've read bits and pieces only.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

thanks for the support *Amanda and tweetybird*, we are not trying to conceive here, but would desperately like to, I guess it is just as well though as lil' man is high needs. I know dh is dissapointed, as am I. It is nice to hear other people talk about this. No one irl seems to understand this.

the *OTHER amanda*- it was nice to read your story. I am at the start of this journey and just counting the days until bread and chocolate, so I am hoping that it does get better!!I am still waiting to feel great, hasn't happened yet.... It sounds like you guys are experts with the yeast issues- unfortunately... Yes, the crumbs on the floor drive me nuts, especially since he is not supposed to get anything but bm, so it seems to me that it is ruining everything... which is even more discouraging. The other day I found bits of my yoga mat in his diaper, which he chewed off evidently.

oh, *CORRECTION to my recipe*-

it is 1/4 - 1/3 c. honey and also add 1/2 t (or more of vanilla) it was the pumpkin pie recipe out of the LLL Whole Foods cookbook, I just baked it without the crust.

That is what I had this am for breakfast, figured really it is fairly healthy for me! Also, I had used the last of my yogurt to make it, which I had been having for breakfast, I have a 3 qt. batch in the oven now. *Pookietooth*, perhaps the pie woudl be a tool for your lil' one to get some squash?

I feel like we are not having change here and I am feeling very discouraged... I want this done like yesterday... The ND thought the best way to heal his gut was to go back to ebf'ing but of course now he really is nursing all the time and he was only eating a few T's a day before. So, maybe he is feeling better, his poops are erratic.

I hate to hear that about *Moneca*, we will keep them in our thoughts and prayers!

*mimi*!- welcome! Honestly I don't know much about probiotics, I am just taking the ones from the ND right now, and I don't even know the brand... terrible I know.


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## mimi! (Aug 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
I decided that it was the yeast making me crazy and getting me to eat the stuff.


I can totally relate! I too feel like the yeast convinces me to eat sugar. It clouds my rationality, tells me it'll be ok if I eat just this one little thing . . . and the next thing you know, all the killing I've done is for not, and the yeast is back. What is that? Its really controlling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







:


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimi!*
I can totally relate! I too feel like the yeast convinces me to eat sugar. It clouds my rationality, tells me it'll be ok if I eat just this one little thing . . . and the next thing you know, all the killing I've done is for not, and the yeast is back. What is that? Its really controlling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







:

It says "Eat the doughnut. Just buy it and eat it in the grocery store parking lot before you drive home. It will just take a minute. Think of the chocolate coating. Who cares if it's loaded with partially hydrogenated oils and processed sugars, you _need_ it now. Just go buy it and eat it real fast and it won't even count. Have you purchased it yet? Because it's time to eat it. It's right over there. Go now. Eat it."

And then you eat it and feel like crap.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
The other day I found bits of my yoga mat in his diaper, which he chewed off evidently.

LOL. At the height of my depression, THAT would have driven me bananas. I don't think we had that level of exploration here.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I'm trying these now, let you know tomorrow how they come out.
http://www.grainfreegourmet.com/sandcookies.html

OMG, these are soooo good... taste just like Pecan Sandies.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimi!*
Hi everyone,
I just heard of this tribe and thought I'd join! What a great discussion









I've had problems with candida and allergies for a long time now, on and off, at times I'm able to quash it. I'm bf'ing right now, so no major killing can go on, and I'm finding that enteric coated bacteria are working best, but I'm going though a bottle a week just to keep the good bacteria numbers up. Its a bit of a battle, and I'm avoiding all my allergy foods too (dairy, corn, wheat, rice). I've tried Garden of Life probiotics and they worked for a bit but no longer. What are some of your favs?











I used to like Culturelle and Nature's Way Reuteri.

But really the best, most economical source is homemade yogurt or kefir. One teaspoon of 24 hr. yogurt contains 5x the amount of probiotics as a capsule.
http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/co...onspiracy.html

How did you determine a dairy allergy? If you cook the yogurt for 24 hrs all the lactose is gone. Also, the proteins are predigested. But milk and regular yogurt contains lactose which feeds the yeast and can cause reactions.

Corn, wheat and rice are causing problems for you b/c it's the disaccharide molecules are not being fully broken down and are feeding the yeast in the gut:
http://www.pecanbread.com/scdscience.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
Welcome to All!!!

we are still plugging along here, wanted to post another recipe for ya'll

Pumpkin Pie

...

I still haven't received my book yet! I am getting a bit discouraged. My hormones are so out of whack, I have been depressed and grumpy. We want a baby so bad! But with trying to get him healed it really isn't possible right now I am thinking it might never happen... Luke is supposed to be ebf'ing, but keeps find crumbs of whatever on the floor- I do sweep everyday!









that pie recipe sounds awesome... I used to make something like it without a crust during my "eat dessert everyday b/c I'm pregnant yeast fest"! :LOL

You will get pg when you are ready. I think this time will be good for you and for your little man, perhaps it's nature's way of telling you that you need it?









At least this is what I'm telling myself now too. I'm not TTC, I can't until a year from now b/c I want to allow time to detox from my fillings







and also build my gut back up to perfect as I can.

Has Luke been asking for food? How's his poop lately


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Jane, I sure wish ds would eat squash, he won't go near it unless it's in the form of pumpkin pie, and I'm even wondering about that now. And he hates pureed food of any kind, will not eat applesauce or any other sauce. He sort of eats steamed apples and pears, but much prefers them raw, likes to chew things. Sigh. He will eat the cashew and pecan muffins I've made, maybe I could try a pumpkin muffin.
I made some beef stock, and even though I cooked it overnight, it still didn't gel when cooled. Also, I had some today, and I think it triggered a migraine. The beef bones were from a regular supermarket, could they have had MSG added to them?
















Was it Moneca that was posting about hiding squash and avocado in turkey or beef meatballs? You might try that.

Hmmm... did you add vinegar to the bones? I don't know re: MSG but I think it's possible. I used to react to the pesticides on certain apples & cherries, my throat would close up.

Have you tried finding a Weston Price chapter in your area that could help you find local sources of meat if you want? The bones are sooo cheap thru my local co-op. This is the Eat Wild list for WA:
http://www.eatwild.com/products/washington.html

My guy is pleading for raw apple everyday, the poor thing. I still have him on all cooked fruit ex. bananas. I think it's been the enzymes that have been causing huge die off in him, which is good, but hard to deal with behaviorally.

He's doing great on goat yogurt, I'm very surprised and THRILLED!!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tweetybirds2*
Ugh! I've been MIA for the past few days--going through major detox! Dang. I guess that means it's working? I didn't eat all day yesterday, just water and a little broth in the evening. This morning I made the homemade jello and had a little of that. I think I might have jumped into things to quickly this time.
The x-factor butter oil came the other day too, and I took some of that, so maybe that stuff is powerful too and caused the healing detox to come on.

We've been unable to conceive since I had my 3 yo. So I'm hoping that healing will help with that too. Although I may have some blocked tubes or something like that from a surgery I had, so I might go to the doctor in a few months to check that out too.

That's very interesting re: the butter oil. Butter contains butyric acid, something spelled like that, that is also supposed to kill yeast/microbes.

Speaking of TTC, it's been very interesting to me to read the Weston Price Foundation stuff about traditional diets having special foods for TTC parents and how modern diets and low nutrients are correlated with infertility. When I'm rational and not just feeling sorry for myself, I'm very grateful to DS for teaching me all this thru our experiences. Perhaps your body needed to make this journey first too


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
Hi Jane,

Her face looks pretty good... I've noticed my nose was stuffy so I wondered if it was the yogurt... I was mixing it w/ homemade granola-not SCD legal-but I haven't taken that plunge yet. But the last two days, I didn't eat any yogurt, and it is just as stuffy! So maybe it is due to yeast?

HI









The stuffy nose could be detox from the yogurt and your diet changes too, hard to say. Detox does take several days. As does yeast overgrowth too...

I'm definately less sensitive to molds... we had water in our basement last week from a week of rain and I cleaned out some moldy boxes. I was surprised that I reacted so minorly. This is HUGE for me.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
*Intro*

Hey ladies. I read this thread when I can and have posted a time or two and thought I'd put in a proper intro.

I had my son in April of 2002...

In this current round, I had no nipple thrush pop either until yesterday. I thought I was in the clear. But we've had a lot of stress in Sep and OCt and have been without a hot water for two weeks. Sitting in your own stink for two weeks does not help in the bacteria department. In any case, I still have a bit of a case, and am still a work in progress. But the more I read about all of this, the more I realize that we're all going to be a work in progress, forever.

So I was reading a book the other day "Depression Cured at Last" by Sherry Rogers and she mentioned that the gut can't be balanced if you have some key underlying nutritional deficiencies. I don't have the book here, but I am writing this so that I remember to find the quote and report back to you all. That in itself would mean it's a long road for all of us. It's hard to get nourished with the gut problems, hard to get rid of the gut problems with the malnourishment.

Thank you Amanda, it's wonderful to see you again









Although I'm sad to hear you are on Round #586 of this!!!









That is very, very interesting about the nutritional deficiencies...please do elaborate when you can. It is chicken and egg b/c a damaged gut won't absorb nutrition adequately either. Makes you crazy.

Have you tried enzymes? Karen DeFelice's book was fabulous, there's a lot of possibilities for healing yeast and bacterial infections by taking protease and cellulase enzymes on an empty stomach www.enzymestuff.com

Although I agree that fermented foods probably are the best source of enzyems, as I think food is the best source of all nutrients... but again, we are not starting with normal, healthy guts to begin with. And probably with reduced body enzyme production as well.

P.S. I was reading some interesting information the other day of how fluoride kills enzymes, found that fascinating. Let's tic off another cause of why so many people have allergies/leaky gut/yeast.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
IKWYM. The baby planning part is the most painful of all of this. I went through many an emotional turmoil over this issue -- when would I be ready? Does my husband think we're ready? I cried a lot. I gave myself deadlines to be well. I didn't meet the deadlines. I stepped back to relax, decided we wouldn't be having more, gave away baby toys and diapers, and now it's anybody's guess. I'm still not ready 3 1/2 years pp. I had a m/c just over a year ago now at 9 weeks and was probably foolish to get pg in the first place. This all takes so much time and the amount of time is really out of our control to a large degree. We don't *really* know what's wrong exacty so we just forge ahead the best we can and recover in bits and pieces and come out better for it, but probably at a much later date than we ever expected.

Thank you for saying it so personally... I feel a lot of angst not only to heal DS but also myself. I often mourn the fact that I'm not pg again. And then, like you said, think it would be foolish to even try again. It's horrible to be so aware sometimes.

Plus I'm old, 39


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Jane - Have you posted your son's story anywhere? I've read bits and pieces only.

We are here:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=260393

Might not be updated now though, I literally feel like I learn something new constantly. Such as I originally blamed yeast but stool tests have shown more pathogenic bacteria.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
It says "Eat the doughnut. Just buy it and eat it in the grocery store parking lot before you drive home. It will just take a minute. Think of the chocolate coating. Who cares if it's loaded with partially hydrogenated oils and processed sugars, you _need_ it now. Just go buy it and eat it real fast and it won't even count. Have you purchased it yet? Because it's time to eat it. It's right over there. Go now. Eat it."

And then you eat it and feel like crap.











YES! Although since I did most all my shopping at Whole Foods I could convince myself of the fact that the cheese danishes or almond tarts or Ben & Jerry's did not contain hydrogenated fats meant it was healthy, after all that store wouldn't carry it if it wasn't.







:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

OH, and I have to confess...

*I CHEATED in the past couple weeks. More than once.*







:

1. Had wedding cake at a friend's wedding (maybe a half a piece, very little of the sickeningly sweet frosting... my tastebuds are SO changed from what they used to be, and I really didn't crave the whole piece like I would in the past).

NO reactions.









Zip, zilch, nada. No gas, no heartburn, no...um... diarrhea. I did take enzymes with it. This thrills me beyond belief b/c this means I'm definately on the track to healing. Does this mean I'll do it again? *NO*, I'm pretty commited to SCD and now I think I'm just going to make more SCD legal treats for myself since it seems I can handle them pretty well.

2. Ate Food For Life, Ezekiel 4:9 6 Sprouted Grain Tortillas that I had hanging around in the back of the freezer. I NEEDED a cheese quesadilla for some reason some day, I was tired of making stuff from scratch all the time and I figured, what the heck... sprouted means easily digestible right? *NOT*

OMG the pain and agony from those tortillas!!!









And interestingly enough, I'd forgotten how it kept me awake at night and also I woke up in the wee hours and couldn't get back to sleep... gee, just like my DS!!

Not that I did it to further our knowledge... but this is very interesting scientific research dontcha think? :LOL

To me it means that the whole grains are the most difficult for the gut to break down... and we all know how important the current nutritional advice is to eat whole grains, even on some "anti-candida" diets.

Strangely enough these cheats really cemented my faith in the SCD and how it works for me and doesn't have me wanting more.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

MY book finally arrived!! Yea. Trying to get through it. Really hard to concentrate on all that science stuff with a babe trying to get your attention! (she likes to play with the cat toys and pretend I am the cat!! dangling this sticky thing with a feather on the end in my face. Pretty good hand coordination for a 10 mo old







)

Well the thrush has receded again and I am back on the mend. Boy i really hope it stays away cause that pain makes me























Not to mention the cravings. I keep having conversations in my head about how I really shouldn't eat those things like the halloween candy my sister brought into the house. How am I supposed to have it stare me in the face all day and not eat it!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Plus I'm old, 39









36 1/2 here as the clock ticks away. I just take it all a day at a time. I also know that what I am doing for my body will only help my fertility, regardless of my biological age.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
To me it means that the whole grains are the most difficult for the gut to break down... and we all know how important the current nutritional advice is to eat whole grains, even on some "anti-candida" diets.

I still can't eat them either and I expect I'll be grain free forever. This is not to scare anybody, because some people just can't tolerate grains. I think I am one of them.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Jane,

I read your story and I noticed that somewhere on this long thread, you talk about how this is all your fault. Do you mean with the actions that led you down the gut path? Antibiotics and such? I'm just asking because I may have missed something. Metals are the issue, but you're not high in all of them. Do you know where he was exposed to the 3As or do you think it's more an issue of his body not being able to process toxins well and he's happened to hold those in?

Amanda


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## tofumama (Jan 20, 2004)

I might be cinfusing things...but what if you are vegetarian? You don't HAVE to eat meat to heal your gut, do you?
Also, does anyone have any really good bread recipies that are wheat free? Maybe using rice and/or soy flour? My ds's dr wants him wheat free, and I think the rest of the kids will end up wheat free as well...( they are classic 'Is This Your Child' cases, :LOL )


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tofumama*
I might be cinfusing things...but what if you are vegetarian? You don't HAVE to eat meat to heal your gut, do you?

Theoretically, no. But the problem comes in getting enough protein. I cut out all grains, beans, and dairy when I did my diet.


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## jcw (Feb 18, 2003)

Hi, don't mind me, I am just subscribing to this fantastic thread. I just got through the 1st 5 pages but I have to go to bed now!


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
36 1/2 here as the clock ticks away. I just take it all a day at a time. I also know that what I am doing for my body will only help my fertility, regardless of my biological age.

I'm 43 & conceived my first child at 41-while I was eating chocolate like crazy!


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## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

is there anywhere to go for more support with the diet for vegetarians? i keep trying to get myself psyched up to do this but don't know how to make it work as a vegetarian. and i don't have the $$ to buy the book if it won't work for us


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## pixie-n-hertwoboys (Aug 17, 2003)

Hi. I don't have time to read all the threads.... so I hope its not redundent.

I need HELP! its me. me who has issues. I'm sure my kids do too but right now I am miserable. I have 'patches' of rashes in various places and is what I'm sure is caused by yeast. My stomach hurts and feels like pressure which makes it hard to breathe and my throat feels closed.

I've read some just online to figure out that its most likely leaky gut and yeast.... help me more? any book suggestions. diets to follow?

I know I have to cut out dairy - besides yogurt which we go through a lot of. I'm not a big milk person but it is there in small amounts. need to cut out coffee I'm sure







We don't eat refined sugars (regularly) and I make our own breads w/ whole wheat flours. I do eat a lot of fruit so suppose that needs to be cut out for a while right? What about honey?

Its gotten worse over the last week or so as well as my stress levels. So bad I have a hard time breathing all the time and getting to sleep. I don't have money to go to a natraopath unfortunately. Not that I could find one around here anyway







:

sorry about the questions. I need pointed in the right dirrection


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessviola*
is there anywhere to go for more support with the diet for vegetarians? i keep trying to get myself psyched up to do this but don't know how to make it work as a vegetarian. and i don't have the $$ to buy the book if it won't work for us

It looks like the SCD is much more vegetarian friendly than the diet I went on. Check out the shopping list on page 7 or so of the thread. It includes butter, lentils, and nut products. The diet I used did not allow butter, beans, nor certain nuts like peanuts and cashews.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

pixie-n-hertwoboys -- You should probably start exactly where you know you need to. The coffee is killing your beneficial bacteria and is hard on your liver. Wean yourself off. I would cut down the fruits significantly. I cut them out entirely. Cut out the white flour and sugar. That's a good place to start. Read the thread more as you have time. By the way, you'll feel terrible as your diet gets strict -- it's called yeast die-off. You may have depression symptoms, fatigue, general grumpiness. It's part of the process. Try to be ready for it and don't let it scare you.


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

I am convinced that I have yeast. My bloating is out of control! At least 5 people have asked me if I am pregnant in the last month! I'm fairly thin except for my stomach!







This morning I started on a serious anti-yeast diet. There are some great files (I think) on yeast available if you join this group-files are available only to group members. You can always select "No Email" if you don't want to read the messages but just want to read the files
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/candidasupport/

Her philosophy is consistent with the Weston Price and NT -she references them.

She also says granola is one of the worst things you can eat! (which I had been eating every morning for breakfast)

Here's the best way to get the good bacteria for those who can't do dairy, according to Bee Wilder, owner of the group.

Cabbage Rejuvelac Recipe
Cabbage is a vegetable that is teeming with lactobacteria. No starter is needed for making rejuvelac.
Start one morning by blending together 1-3/4 cups distilled or purified water plus 3 cups of coarsely chopped, loosely packed fresh cabbage. Start the blender at low speed and then advance the blender to high speed and blend for 30 more seconds.
Pour into a jar, cover, and let stand at room temperature for 3 days.
After 3 days, strain off the liquid rejuvelac. The initial batch of cabbage rejuvelac takes 3 days to mature, but succeeding batches take 24 hours each.
Each morning after straining off the fresh rejuvelac, blend together 1-1/2 cups of distilled or purified water plus 3 cups of coarsely ground, loosely packed fresh cabbage, for 30 seconds at high speed.
Pour it into a jar and add 1/4 cup of the fresh rejuvelac just strained off, cover, shake, and let it stand at room temperature until the next morning.
Cabbage rejuvelac can also be made without using a blender. Just chop the cabbage very fine and use 2-1/2 cups replacing the 3 cups in the recipe above with the same amount of water.
Good quality rejuvelac tastes similar to a cross between carbonated water and the whey obtained when making yogurt. Bad quality rejuvelac has a much more putrid odour and taste and should not be consumed. Avoid using tap water because chlorine will interfere with the production of the bacteria. Boiling tap water for 30 minutes uncovered will remove chlorine.
Refrigerate rejuvelac if it is to be kept overnight. Discard any rejuvelac on hand 24 hours after it is poured off the cabbage.
Taking Rejuvelac - Drink each day's rejuvelac during the course of the day by taking 1/2 cup three times per day, preferably with meals.
To implant a healthy population of lactobacteria in the intestinal tract take rejuvelac for 1 to 3 months. The value of rejuvelac should not be confused with that of freeze-dried acidophilus. Rejuvelac contains live lactobacteria but freeze dried lactobacteria die in a few weeks' time.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
MY book finally arrived!! Yea. Trying to get through it. Really hard to concentrate on all that science stuff with a babe trying to get your attention! (she likes to play with the cat toys and pretend I am the cat!! dangling this sticky thing with a feather on the end in my face. Pretty good hand coordination for a 10 mo old







)

Well the thrush has receded again and I am back on the mend. Boy i really hope it stays away cause that pain makes me























Not to mention the cravings. I keep having conversations in my head about how I really shouldn't eat those things like the halloween candy my sister brought into the house. How am I supposed to have it stare me in the face all day and not eat it!

:LOL that is very good coordination!

Throw the candy away!!!!!!

Last year, I noticed a ton of "Help, I have thrush!" posts right after Halloween...!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
36 1/2 here as the clock ticks away. I just take it all a day at a time. I also know that what I am doing for my body will only help my fertility, regardless of my biological age.

I know, you are totally right... it's just really, really hard. And now that I've found a way to heal my gut and also WAPF, my nutrition, and therefore my health, will be way better than when I was eating my vegetarian diet: low fat, low dairy, eggs and fish 1-2x a week, dessert and soy everyday, whole grains, pulses and vegetable oil!!







That makes me cringe now.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Jane,

I read your story and I noticed that somewhere on this long thread, you talk about how this is all your fault. Do you mean with the actions that led you down the gut path? Antibiotics and such? I'm just asking because I may have missed something. Metals are the issue, but you're not high in all of them. Do you know where he was exposed to the 3As or do you think it's more an issue of his body not being able to process toxins well and he's happened to hold those in?

Amanda

It's just me being me. Rationally I can understand that it's not possible to know everything and do everything...but I should have, yes, refused the antibx several times and:

1. Not let my dentist talk me into a ton of mercury fillings and a root canal in 90's.

2. When my root canal failed during my 1st trimester, I should have researched it more instead of just having it pulled by a regular dentist... because mercury can still be in posts of crowns (found this out only recently.) I asked so many questions of my dentist, periodontist and OB at the time...who all said it was fine, they were more concerned about which anethestic to use. But as we all know, conventional dr's don't know sh*t. My poor baby was probably exposed then at the most vulnerable point in his life. I'll never know for sure.







.

3. Researched IBS causes and a vegetarian/lowfat diet better.

4. Ate less sugar!!









I've so changed in my view and trust of the medical establishment since his birth and that's a very good thing... but I feel like I came much too late to this realization.

As far as DS goes, from what I have read, mercury poisoning causes the detox pathways of the body to shut down and not work properly. Ditto the gut by killing off the good bacteria. Which makes detox even harder when you don't have fully functioning digestion. This causes the body to hold on to other metals as well b/c they are less able to get rid of them.

The 3 A's are weird to me, b/c since his conception, I've never cooked in aluminum pans. I've gone so far to line all frozen food with wax paper, then used aluminum foil.









DS has an organic wool/cotton mattress, the regular mattresses are known sources of arsenic and antimony. He co-slept with us for first 5-6 months on regular one, though. All his pj's etc. are NOT flame retardant, I made a special point of that. We used cloth or the natural disposible diapers. Our deck possibly has arsenic, but it's 10 years old, and he doesn't play all much on it. I'm freaking fanatical about washing his hands before snacks or meals, always have been. He's never ever had tap water, even to cook his food. All our furniture is Scotchgarded maybe that has arsenic and antimony.

I shudder to think how he would have been had I not been so anal about all these things.

So I think he may have had normal exposure to these metals but is just holding onto it. His minerals are disordered according to Cutler's counting rules, which means mercury poisoning, apparently no other metals do that.

It's very much a mystery why I'm not showing high metals and disordered minerals since by my symptoms it so obviously effected me. However, by that point I had gotten a lot better, so maybe I was detoxing naturally as my gut improved while bf'ing too.







I'll really never know.

Which is another horrible thing to think badly about....bf'ing that is.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tofumama*
I might be cinfusing things...but what if you are vegetarian? You don't HAVE to eat meat to heal your gut, do you?
Also, does anyone have any really good bread recipies that are wheat free? Maybe using rice and/or soy flour? My ds's dr wants him wheat free, and I think the rest of the kids will end up wheat free as well...( they are classic 'Is This Your Child' cases, :LOL )

The official SCD opinion on vegetarianism is that it is fine to do the diet without eating meat but to get complete protein one should eat at least one egg per day and some dairy.

Right now I'm making bread from almond flour. It's quite dense and not at all soft but tastes good. The muffins from the same recipe are great. Let me know if you are interested and I'll PM you.









This recipe at Pecanbread (below link under 'Pancakes') for Midas Gold pancakes/waffles is terrific (I add 1 T. of melted coconut oil or butter to it as well, makes them more fluffy). http://www.pecanbread.com/recipes.html

The Specific Carbohydrate Diet says that it's not just wheat, but other grains that cannot be fully digested that ferment and feed the bad bacteria in the intestines and never allow the good bacteria to regain their proper prominence. This results in food allergies b/c the gut villi wear down and produce less enzymes, resulting in more food not being digested, which means more food for the bad bacteria to grow... which is why it's called the "Vicious Cycle".

Quote from BTVC:

Quote:

Dr. J. O. Hunter in 1991 described this dilemma of treating patients with gastrointestinal symptoms as food allergies or sensitivities. He stated that patients who exhibit sensitivities do not follow classical Type I allergic reaction. If these intolerances are not allergies, then they may be a disorder of bacterial fermentation in the colon and the disorders might be more appropriately named "enterometabolic (intestinal) disorders."
http://www.pecanbread.com/scdscience.html

I think "Is This Your Child" is only halfway there as far as what is really going on with poor digestion and allergies.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jcw*
Hi, don't mind me, I am just subscribing to this fantastic thread. I just got through the 1st 5 pages but I have to go to bed now!

:LOL

C'mon back and introduce yourself when you've recovered


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Oh, my list of regrets is very long indeed. If only... if only...

I am really glad I found the information I did when I did. Too bad it wasn't earlier. It would have saved us all a lot of pain. But the pain could have been much, much worse. I'm working on writing my PPD story and I just shake my head wondering what our future would have been without this information.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessviola*
is there anywhere to go for more support with the diet for vegetarians? i keep trying to get myself psyched up to do this but don't know how to make it work as a vegetarian. and i don't have the $$ to buy the book if it won't work for us

Maybe you could check the Healing Crow Yahoo list?
This is the website:
http://www.healingcrow.com/dietsmain/scd/scd.html

You can't do eggs or dairy right is that the issue?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixie-n-hertwoboys*
Hi. I don't have time to read all the threads.... so I hope its not redundent.

I need HELP! its me. me who has issues. I'm sure my kids do too but right now I am miserable. I have 'patches' of rashes in various places and is what I'm sure is caused by yeast. My stomach hurts and feels like pressure which makes it hard to breathe and my throat feels closed.

I've read some just online to figure out that its most likely leaky gut and yeast.... help me more? any book suggestions. diets to follow?

I know I have to cut out dairy - besides yogurt which we go through a lot of. I'm not a big milk person but it is there in small amounts. need to cut out coffee I'm sure







We don't eat refined sugars (regularly) and I make our own breads w/ whole wheat flours. I do eat a lot of fruit so suppose that needs to be cut out for a while right? What about honey?

Its gotten worse over the last week or so as well as my stress levels. So bad I have a hard time breathing all the time and getting to sleep. I don't have money to go to a natraopath unfortunately. Not that I could find one around here anyway







:

sorry about the questions. I need pointed in the right dirrection









I had ALL your symptoms, the insomnia, anxiety, bloating, everything.

The Specific Carbohydrate Diet totally rocks and includes honey and fruit because they are simple carbs, monosaccharides, that are easy to digest, but eliminates grains, potatoes and corn, the disaccharides, that are hard for injured guts to break down (so they feed the bad gut bugs).

Here's some reading to explain it better:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i.../beginners.htm
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i..._the_diet2.htm
The SCD Intro Diet:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ntro_diet2.htm

Read that link I just posted above for Healing Crow too, it describes the SCD pretty well in total.

After the Intro, you progress to cooked fruits and veggies b/c they are easier to digest and introduce things slowly. Nut butter and finely ground nut flour before whole nuts for example.

You don't necessarily have to cut out dairy to get your gut flora back in shape. The lactose could just be the issue (sugar that if not fully digested feeds bad bacteria in intestines.) Homemade yogurt is going to be the key to recovery... getting a LOT of good bacteria back into your gut to heal it. Of course if someone is seriously allergic to dairy protein, you can do nut or coconut yogurt. But an "allergy" is not necessarily present if your digestion is impaired.

Whole wheat is very hard to digest unless soaked, it contains phytates which impair digestive enzymes.


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## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Maybe you could check the Healing Crow Yahoo list?
This is the website:
http://www.healingcrow.com/dietsmain/scd/scd.html

You can't do eggs or dairy right is that the issue?

yep. i'll check out the list.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
I am convinced that I have yeast. My bloating is out of control! At least 5 people have asked me if I am pregnant in the last month! I'm fairly thin except for my stomach!







This morning I started on a serious anti-yeast diet.

It's not necessarily just yeast, bad bacteria as well cause these symptoms. But generally the treatment is the same diet wise... if you are going the supplements route some (GSE) are better for yeast but not bacteria, and some (Oil of Oregano) good for both.

The bloating is gas caused by the fermentation of undigested food and the toxins and carbon dioxide gas released by the bad gut bugs.

Enzymes and hydrochloric acid supplements will help this too, and allow your gut to heal. And are perfectly safe while bf'ing.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Oh, my list of regrets is very long indeed. If only... if only...

I am really glad I found the information I did when I did. Too bad it wasn't earlier. It would have saved us all a lot of pain. But the pain could have been much, much worse. I'm working on writing my PPD story and I just shake my head wondering what our future would have been without this information.

Your story to post at MDC or elsewhere? Let me know when you write it.









And there's the rub too... if I had not gone thru the pain, I never would have changed as much as I did either.

Sometimes you need a smack on the head to get the motivation to take charge of things.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

My life has changed so radically and it is changed forever. I have to be a bit grateful for that. But it doesn't mean it's not hard.
I'm writing a book about my PPD.


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## mimi! (Aug 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*









I used to like Culturelle and Nature's Way Reuteri.

But really the best, most economical source is homemade yogurt or kefir. One teaspoon of 24 hr. yogurt contains 5x the amount of probiotics as a capsule.
http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/co...onspiracy.html

How did you determine a dairy allergy? If you cook the yogurt for 24 hrs all the lactose is gone. Also, the proteins are predigested. But milk and regular yogurt contains lactose which feeds the yeast and can cause reactions.

Corn, wheat and rice are causing problems for you b/c it's the disaccharide molecules are not being fully broken down and are feeding the yeast in the gut:
http://www.pecanbread.com/scdscience.html

Thanks! I will check out pecanbread! The digestion of grains is very interesting. Vega and blood allergy testing have confirmed the milk allergy. So even if its yogurt, even goat or sheep, it causes problems









For the last 4 days I've been using Lorna Vanderhaeghe's EstoSense. Its for the liver, and oh my gosh, my eczema and puffy, itchy eyes are clearing up. And I've had this problem for a year!!!!!!!!!! You may want to check it out. www.hormonehelp.com


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Thank you for saying it so personally... I feel a lot of angst not only to heal DS but also myself. I often mourn the fact that I'm not pg again. And then, like you said, think it would be foolish to even try again. It's horrible to be so aware sometimes.

Plus I'm old, 39









I'm 39, too, and will be turning 40, and had IF/PCOS and took fertility drugs to conceive ds prior to all this, so I know what you mean.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jessica, what is a vega test, and what kind of blood allergy testing was it?


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

ok mamas, i need some major help here.

ds is 2.5. he is allergic to almost everything to some degree or another. he also is a picky eater on top of it, so won't eat meat or vegetables. that leaves nuts (rarely will eat them) as the only "true" protein source that he's not allergic to to some degree.

he has some major imbalances in his gut. he's had stool samples done. the allergist can't figure out the source, and nothing got better after being on probiotics, flax oil, lowered intake of allergens, etc. he might want to do antibiotics to help.

i just read/skimmed "is this your child" by rapp and feel like ds has a lot of the allergic symptoms still, but his reactions don't happen like she described. he doesn't have reactions 45 minutes after eating a food, for example. instead, his main source of reaction is taking forever to fall asleep. he is restless, needs to press his legs against his bedrail, needs us often to put pressure on his legs to help him relax, etc. i think we are just coming to realize how much this is related to allergy/gut issues, as he accidentally had soy and oats (two big allergens) the other day and it took him over two hours to fall asleep. interestingly, this only happens at night, and rarely for his nap. could allergens build up and make this worse at night?

so, rapp says to do all kinds of elimination stuff. i'm really worried about this, as it's so hard to find food he can/will eat. when we first found out about the allergies, we tried to have him off many of the things he's allergic to. he lost so much weight, hated eating, meals were a battle, etc. we then put him on goat milk, spelt, and sprouted grain breads, which he seemed to tolerate okay, but i'm beginning to think these are still a problem. the red rings under his eyes are worse and the sleep is just getting worse and worse.

problem is, so many of the alternatives have things he's allergic to, such as corn, rice, etc.

and taking the "just put it in front of him, he'll eat if he's hungry" approach definitely doesn't work.

any ideas here? anyone done the treatments described in is this your child? what foods do you recommend we take out/add in? other approaches to heal the gut? anything?

thanks in advance!
megin, mommy to quinn -- the super allergy boy!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
I'm writing a book about my PPD.

That's fantastic!!!









Hey... maybe you can get Tom Cruise to promote it?























:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimi!*
Thanks! I will check out pecanbread! The digestion of grains is very interesting. Vega and blood allergy testing have confirmed the milk allergy. So even if its yogurt, even goat or sheep, it causes problems









For the last 4 days I've been using Lorna Vanderhaeghe's EstoSense. Its for the liver, and oh my gosh, my eczema and puffy, itchy eyes are clearing up. And I've had this problem for a year!!!!!!!!!! You may want to check it out. www.hormonehelp.com

Oy re: milk allergy.
Pecanbread has yogurt recipes made from nuts and links to dairy free probiotic supplements. It's about doing the SCD dairy free b/c most ASD kids can't handle the dairy protein peptides.

That is a very interesting formula for EstoSense. I've never heard of her, I'll have to read more...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Hi Megin!










What were the stool test results? Quinn's behavior sounds almost exactly like my DS with respect to sleep! The brain and the central nervous system are intimately connected to the gut. There are studies linking celiac disease and schizophrenia... because the undigested wheat ferments and creates toxins that behave like hallucinogens or alcohol in the body. It could also be that the restricted diet plus damaged digestion also leads to Quinn's not absorbing enough nutrition... which can have multiple effects on the body.

My guy's stool tests showed high amounts of pathogenic bacteria, therefore through lots of reading on my own I've concluded that his digestive issues are not "allergies" but impaired digestion. And that is why we are on the SCD to correct this plus digestive enzymes.

Soy and oats contain high amounts of phytates which are especially hard to digest for normal people, nevermind someone with a damaged gut.

Start reading and come back with questions









I've posted some links above explaining the SCD and the theory behind the cause of damaged guts aka leaky gut or intestinal dysbiosis. This leads to food allergies b/c food is not being broken down properly. The whole food molecules are absorbed by the bloodstream and create autoimmune reactions b/c they are not supposed to be there.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
I'm 39, too, and will be turning 40, and had IF/PCOS and took fertility drugs to conceive ds prior to all this, so I know what you mean.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

wow, go away for a day and everything gets busy.... not sure where to start...

jane- you asked about lil' man's poops- they are good about 75% of the time, nice yellow color, good smell, although he has some mucus a lot. still has some green poops though. Today we were outside and evidently he ate some leafs not too much later he pooped them out, whole of course, and it was green. His face has been red as of late. I am trying to stop the cheese, going to try and just do the yogurt.

re; babies- yes, I guess perhaps it is for the best. Honestly although I do want another baby I am enjoying having my body, and secretly hoping that my skin will finish shrinking back up before I get prego again, doubling in size left me with baggy belly skin-- vain I know....

I am feeling pretty good although I haven't been sleeping well at all. Lil' man wants to nurse all night long it seems, not fussy just nursing all the time. I am beginning to wonder if I can handle this trying to ebf a 15 mo old, the ND wanted to try and do this for 1-3 mo, don't know if I have the patience. I knwo that is sad, but I am spending probably as much time nursing him now as when he was a newborn....

oh, and Luke is very interested in food. I am having to keep it from him and if he happens to find a crumb I about lose a finger trying to get it out of his mouth. I guess that is a good sign? However, when he does happen to get something I find it undigested in his diaper, ugh...

(edited; forget to answer a question)


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Megin, Welcome! Like you my lil' guy had a horrible time with going to sleep before too. We don't have as big as issues as some people here, but definite problems. I didn't realize about the brain and gut being connected I learn something new from you Jane everytime I get on... that explains his issues with oats, I never understood that before as they are not supposed to be allerginic.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Jane and Amanda-
I wanted to tell you that you guys are my heroes when it comes to this stuff! You guys are really on the ball! I feel like such an idiot half the time. I told a friend the other day, I know enough just to be dangerous. We all do the best we can with what we have. We cannot change the past, just try and learn from it. I am glad that lil' man has taken me down this path. I have been trying to eat healthier for a while now, but often lacked motivation. So, now I am forced to eat better cannot have sugar, cannot rely on carbs as a quick fix. I thought I was doing pretty good but realized that I was using way too much pasta and bread. I am discovering cooking healthy in a whole new way! I told dh today that perhaps the next pregnancy I won't eat icecream every day!!


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

well, if we are confessing.....

I had some Arby's salad with breaded chicken and bacon, so who knows what the heck was in it and I savored every bite and practically licked the bowl.... no noticeable reaction that I remember... I did at least forgo the buttermilk dressing and tortilla strips....

Aristicat- Throw the candy away in the bathroom trash, so there is no chance you will want it!

You guys are cracking me up about cravings! I have been so bad before I have gotten stuff I have thrown away back out of the trash if it was packaged, or not on anything bad. How sick is that? that's probably going to get me kicked out...


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

pixie- I think Jane has gave some good info! You are at the right spot for leaky gut issues! This is the journey we are all going through in some degree or another! I think I would cut out all the grains to start with and sugar, that to me was the biggest step!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*









Thanks, Jane. Sigh.


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

I've been off sugar and wheat a week, and two days ago kicked it up a notch and started using 3 drops GSE in water in the A.M. and eating a couple of raw garlic cloves in an effort to kill the yeast. I'm doing an anti-yeast diet too. I'm really having the die off reactions! And in one day my stomach looked smaller, I'm not kidding. I'm not nearly as bloated, so I think that is an indication that something is working!

I got the puffy eyes, little shiners under my eyes (barely noticable but still there), headache, runny nose, etc. Poor dd! You could really see the purple under her eyes! I guess the die off by products she's getting via the bm.

I'm using the 24 hr yogurt to replenish the good bacteria, and when that runs out, I've got some cabbage rejuvalac going that I will try.

Yeah, my 15 mo old nurses a lot too, especially at night at a certain period, it seems about 3-4 am. She'll suck for a bit, roll over, and cry out to have more. This usually happens about 3 or more times in a row, and by then I'm awake. So I get up and work on the computer. She nurses for naps, too. It is hard.


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## arcenciel (Nov 26, 2001)

Whew! Finally made it through this month's thread! Not promising to read the others yet until I do all the links......








: So I started down this path last year when I got NT and then in January when I joined the sugar-free mamas thread (







think I recognise some of you here now....) and I was doing pretty well until recently. But after I gave up sugar I started to notice the effects other foods were having on me. After I eat a lot of white pasta I feel completely drained. Similar after I eat whole-wheat bread.

We've been doing raw milk for nearly a year now but when I eat a lot I feel bloated. Even a lot of yoghurt leaves me feeling bloated. And other foods and other symptoms.....

So here I am because I'm convinced of the benefits. And having read the thread, I have loads of questions. But first I wanted to say to all of you that are having a hard time conceiving or are waiting to TTC that you really are doing the right thing! (I know you know that really...) My oldest is nearly 7 and my youngest just turned 2 and so they missed out on all the benefits of having me eat right either in pregnancy or ebf (I'm still feeding my youngest but nowhere near exclusive!). I regret that as much as you can regret these things and still get on with life. Now I have to change their diets from bad habits and it's much more difficult for the older two who understand what's going on but even if they hear the reasons don't necessarily like cutting down candy, sugar, pasta, pizza, etc. !!!

Do those of you with thrush problems know that you can use yoghurt externally? If it's on nipples you just smear it on and then put a breastpad or tissue inside your bra. I've used it for vaginal yeast issues and it works great







:

What is it especially about homemade yoghurt that makes it so good? Our local hfs makes its own yoghurt from raw milk and it's lovely. I'm wondering if I can get away with that, thought the homemade stuff sounds lovely and not too complicated ....

I don't know about the science behind the EFL anti-dairy theory, but having read Weston Price's Nutrition and Physical Degeneration and tried things out myself, I think it's purely personal, or perhaps down to having a healthy gut. I'm living in Switzerland so it was easy to try out the Swiss diet, with the sourdough rye bread, raw cheese, milk, cream, etc. But although the cheese was fine for me, the bread just disagreed and so did large amounts of milk..... I don't know whether it's because I'm Scottish, from a very much island (fish & oats) background or whether it's because I need to clear my gut. TBH I suspect it's mostly the gut because the oats (even soaked) didn't work out so well either.....

Pilgrim, I'm with you on the planning it out and making sure you have stuff in to eat! I've tried giving things up without being real organised about it and then I just end up with bad cravings eating whatever I have around which fortunately doesn't usually mean sugar, but usually doesn mean bread.....

We don't eat badly in that we don't eat a lot of packaged food and not that much sugar any more, but we really rely on bread, pasta and potatoes.

Still, I'm looking forward to trying out the SCD once I've done a little more reading.....


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## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

ok, i think i'm going to try the intro diet but want to make some yogurt first. i don't really think i could do it in the oven because we use the oven every day and can't tie it up with the yogurt for so long.

can anyone recommend a yogurt maker that would work for it?

also, i'm going to make some chicken broth for ds (chicken came back as non-reactive but i don't eat it because i'm vegetarian) and was wondering what i should be looking for when buying chicken? do i need to worry about what the chicken has been fed? how can i know? i'm thinking i'll go to wild oats (or the new whole foods that opens wednesday!!!!!) and getting some organic chicken since the normal supermarkets close to us don't have any. does that sound good? do i have to worry about dairy or anything being injected? organic wouldn't have antibiotics right?

sorry to have so many questions, but i'm clueless when it comes to meat! and dh just goes for whatever's cheapest









thanks!!!


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## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

Quote:

My general procedure follows. I usually make in a stainless steel stockpot but a crockpot can also be used. It is not expensive. A pack of 4 chicken legs at Whole Foods (aka Whole Paycheck) is $3.25. I made incredible lamb stock last week from $5.50 in grassfed lamb shanks.

HOW TO MAKE:

If you are using beef bones, NT recommends roasting in oven first until browned.
Soak bones or chicken legs and vegetables desired (onions, carrots) with 2T vinegar per qt. of water for one hour before heating (chelates more minerals out).
Bring to low boil.
Skim froth.
Keep at barely a simmer for 6-24 hours.
Strain and refrigerate.
Remove fat.

After straining, you can reduce it for an hour or so at a lively boil to make a more concentrated stock. Then freeze in ice cube trays. Pop out and transfer to a freezer container. The concentrated stock or what the French term demi-glace, is really delicious. I usually do this and then serve DS shredded chicken, lamb or beef in their respective concentrated stock, he won't eat soup.
jane,
how well will this work without the vinegar? would it be ok if i just soaked them in water?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessviola*
jane,
how well will this work without the vinegar? would it be ok if i just soaked them in water?

It will work just fine, however it will contain less minerals.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessviola*
ok, i think i'm going to try the intro diet but want to make some yogurt first. i don't really think i could do it in the oven because we use the oven every day and can't tie it up with the yogurt for so long.

can anyone recommend a yogurt maker that would work for it?

also, i'm going to make some chicken broth for ds (chicken came back as non-reactive but i don't eat it because i'm vegetarian) and was wondering what i should be looking for when buying chicken? do i need to worry about what the chicken has been fed? how can i know? i'm thinking i'll go to wild oats (or the new whole foods that opens wednesday!!!!!) and getting some organic chicken since the normal supermarkets close to us don't have any. does that sound good? do i have to worry about dairy or anything being injected? organic wouldn't have antibiotics right?

sorry to have so many questions, but i'm clueless when it comes to meat! and dh just goes for whatever's cheapest









thanks!!!

Yes, Whole Foods chicken is naturally raised (no antibiotics or hormones). As far as I know they don't have grass fed chicken widely available so this is probably the best you can find unless you start really looking around for local sources or internet. (It's sad I think).

Grass fed dairy and meat are the most nutritious as they contain Omega 3 fatty acids as well as CLA, another important fatty acid. The lamb I buy at my WF is grass fed, you can ask at meat counter if you are interested.

I have the Eurocuisine yogurt maker and it's fine, it doesn't shut off so leaving it on for 24 hrs is no problem. I got it at www.WilliamsSonoma.com but I know it's available elsewhere too. I had to take the temperature and crack the top a bit to keep it between 100-110, it ran hotter than that in summer, but winter I don't have to..









Good luck!!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
I am feeling pretty good although I haven't been sleeping well at all. Lil' man wants to nurse all night long it seems, not fussy just nursing all the time. I am beginning to wonder if I can handle this trying to ebf a 15 mo old, the ND wanted to try and do this for 1-3 mo, don't know if I have the patience. I knwo that is sad, but I am spending probably as much time nursing him now as when he was a newborn....

oh, and Luke is very interested in food. I am having to keep it from him and if he happens to find a crumb I about lose a finger trying to get it out of his mouth. I guess that is a good sign? However, when he does happen to get something I find it undigested in his diaper, ugh...

Yikes, that's gotta be hard Mama! How long have you been ebf him now?

What kind of stuff comes out undigested?

When he's ready for food I would try well steamed and pureed veggies and fruits, no seeds, no peels. Squash, carrots, green beans. Pearsauce, Applesauce.

Bananas can be raw if they are well covered with black spots (means all the sugars have been converted to monosaccharides and are easy to digest).

Egg yolks mashed.

Meat pureed with bone broth...maybe make a soup with veggies and puree it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
Jane and Amanda-
I wanted to tell you that you guys are my heroes when it comes to this stuff! You guys are really on the ball! I feel like such an idiot half the time. I told a friend the other day, I know enough just to be dangerous. We all do the best we can with what we have. We cannot change the past, just try and learn from it. I am glad that lil' man has taken me down this path. I have been trying to eat healthier for a while now, but often lacked motivation. So, now I am forced to eat better cannot have sugar, cannot rely on carbs as a quick fix. I thought I was doing pretty good but realized that I was using way too much pasta and bread. I am discovering cooking healthy in a whole new way! I told dh today that perhaps the next pregnancy I won't eat icecream every day!!

Awwww....thanks









Believe me, I didn't start out this way, it's now been almost 2 years since I started this journey! So you are not an idiot, I'm just that much ahead of you. It feels good to be able to try to help others, have a community to keep me honest and also further my own knowledge.









24 hr. yogurt, egg yolks, honey and vanilla makes a terrific, and SCD legal, ice cream...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
You guys are cracking me up about cravings! I have been so bad before I have gotten stuff I have thrown away back out of the trash if it was packaged, or not on anything bad. How sick is that? that's probably going to get me kicked out...











Actually I think that makes you even more legitimate ... you need to be here!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
I've been off sugar and wheat a week, and two days ago kicked it up a notch and started using 3 drops GSE in water in the A.M. and eating a couple of raw garlic cloves in an effort to kill the yeast. I'm doing an anti-yeast diet too. I'm really having the die off reactions! And in one day my stomach looked smaller, I'm not kidding. I'm not nearly as bloated, so I think that is an indication that something is working!

I got the puffy eyes, little shiners under my eyes (barely noticable but still there), headache, runny nose, etc. Poor dd! You could really see the purple under her eyes! I guess the die off by products she's getting via the bm.

I'm using the 24 hr yogurt to replenish the good bacteria, and when that runs out, I've got some cabbage rejuvalac going that I will try.

Yeah, my 15 mo old nurses a lot too, especially at night at a certain period, it seems about 3-4 am. She'll suck for a bit, roll over, and cry out to have more. This usually happens about 3 or more times in a row, and by then I'm awake. So I get up and work on the computer. She nurses for naps, too. It is hard.









UGH... hang in there.









Don't think you will be doing yourself a disservice by backing off somewhat on the killers (and keeping the probiotics up). From what I understand, your immune system and natural detox pathways need to be working properly. It doesn't do any good to completely overload them.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arcenciel*
What is it especially about homemade yoghurt that makes it so good? Our local hfs makes its own yoghurt from raw milk and it's lovely. I'm wondering if I can get away with that, thought the homemade stuff sounds lovely and not too complicated ....

I don't know about the science behind the EFL anti-dairy theory, but having read Weston Price's Nutrition and Physical Degeneration and tried things out myself, I think it's purely personal, or perhaps down to having a healthy gut. I'm living in Switzerland so it was easy to try out the Swiss diet, with the sourdough rye bread, raw cheese, milk, cream, etc. But although the cheese was fine for me, the bread just disagreed and so did large amounts of milk..... I don't know whether it's because I'm Scottish, from a very much island (fish & oats) background or whether it's because I need to clear my gut. TBH I suspect it's mostly the gut because the oats (even soaked) didn't work out so well either.....

We don't eat badly in that we don't eat a lot of packaged food and not that much sugar any more, but we really rely on bread, pasta and potatoes.

Still, I'm looking forward to trying out the SCD once I've done a little more reading.....

Hey arcenciel!!









It's lovely to see you here









Maybe on the hfs yogurt... but the reason why were are doing the SCD 24 hr. yogurt is that all the lactose is gone (so no more milk sugar to feed the gut bugs). Plus it's super powerful, much higher probiotic content than regular yogurt... 3 billion per 1ML. Meaning 15 billion per *teaspoon*! Most capsules contain 3 billion or less, so it's great stuff.

I think a healthy gut is the key too based on my own experiences as well.

The bread, pasta and potatoes can be just as bad if they are not being fully digested, the bad gut bugs like them just as much as sugar.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

*arcenciel*, welcome! thanks for the encouragement, it is hard when you want a lil' one and waiting! I know it is better for all of us, but doing what's right isn't always what's easy...

I would definitely do the homemade yogurt, it is super easy to do and very yummy (and super healthy of course)! I have only made it twice and already have got it down pat.

Dh and I didn't really eat bad before either, but I honestly didn't realize how much we relied on pasta, rice, and bread until I cut it out. I guess I was in denial about it all.

*Jessica*, good luck with the intro diet! It is smart you are preparing beforehand, I didn't so I about starved because I didn't have things around to eat. I don't have a yogurt maker recommendation as I use the stove. I cook a ton around here as well, but when I do the yogurt I just cook in the crockpot or on the stove. Last time I made 3 quarts so I wouldn't have to worry about it for a while.

*Jane*, I started back ebf'ing him at the first of the month. I didn't think he ate much solids, but he is nursing WAY more now! Things I have found in his diaper lately; leaves- went right through, a small bit of grapefruit, and paper.

Well, today I gave him some mashed carrot, which had been cooked forever. We were down at the in-laws and I was afraid someone would make a comment if I didn't feed him, yep I am a chicken... I cheated again too, although I ate legal food for dinner, I ate a couple of cookies and piece of cake-sans the icing. Didn't even enjoy it. My tummy is upset... Again I didn't want people to think I was starving myself, I am looking very thin. I know none of their business.

You have got to get me the icecream recipe, that is my biggest weakness... then again maybe not...

*Sarah*- Sounds like you are doing great! Going through the die off is so hard. I thought I was going crazy, poor dh and Luke! I felt so crappy I even took a pregnancy test! I think that is so wonderful that your belly has shrunk already, you will be a skinny minny in no time! Keep up the good work!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
Jane and Amanda-
I wanted to tell you that you guys are my heroes when it comes to this stuff! You guys are really on the ball! I feel like such an idiot half the time. I told a friend the other day, I know enough just to be dangerous.

Hey crunch. Feeling like an idiot is a symptom. Really. I wandered around for months in brain fog not knowing what was going on and then die-off was a whole other level.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
Yeah, my 15 mo old nurses a lot too, especially at night at a certain period, it seems about 3-4 am. She'll suck for a bit, roll over, and cry out to have more. This usually happens about 3 or more times in a row, and by then I'm awake. So I get up and work on the computer. She nurses for naps, too. It is hard.









Before becoming a mom, I had the impression that babies and toddlers and young children actually slept through the night. Was I ever naive.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jessica, you can also use a heating pad to maintain heat, that's what I use and it's usually ok, although I did have it drop to 88 degrees overnight once. I have heard the Eurocuisine one is good.


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

OK, I've recently ordered the book...Gottschall....anyway, I've got a question. It might be answered in the book, but I thougt I'd go ahead and ask.
How do you know when the gut is healed? I realize it takes a long time, but how do you know?

Also-Just wanted to gripe...our local paper just ran a story today about how "they" have determined that vaccines do not have any connection to autism. Like they are perfectly safe, no one question anyone of any type of authority....blah blah blah! Just makes me so mad!







Sorry, I just figured you guys might understand my irritation.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Hey if anyone would like to buy my Yogourmet yogurt maker, it's available. You can make up to 1/2 gallons in it. It keeps its temperature. The reason I'm not using it anymore is that we go through so much yogurt that I make a gallon at a time and use the cooler method. I've got an extra yogurt container as well and think I paid over $40 plus shipping. So it's the yogurt maker plus two containers, one container is just extra if you've got a batch of yogurt in the fridge and want to make another batch. It's handy. If anyone wants it, it's $15 plus actual shipping.

edited: *pending*


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## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

we have a crockpot, i should use that.

i have some more questions. i thought we were getting our cooking utensils/pots/pans/plates/glasses clean, but then today when i was cooking, i noticed that some of the hot peppers dh cooked last night crept into my food. how do those of you with other household members not on the diet make sure everything is properly cleaned?

also, what types of pots/pans/etc do you use? right now we have some terrible teflon coated ones (i know, i know, i hate them and really want to replace them but $$ are a big issue right now) and i'd like to start slowly replacing them one by one with something better. i think any new pans i get will be reserved for my cooking to help avoid the previous problem.

where do you find fresh goat milk? i've only seen powdered in the stores but really have no clue where to look.

should i be using a specific dish detergent or dishwashing liquid? i rinse really well, but still fear they leave a residue.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
*Jane*, I started back ebf'ing him at the first of the month. I didn't think he ate much solids, but he is nursing WAY more now! Things I have found in his diaper lately; leaves- went right through, a small bit of grapefruit, and paper.

Well, today I gave him some mashed carrot, which had been cooked forever. We were down at the in-laws and I was afraid someone would make a comment if I didn't feed him, yep I am a chicken... I cheated again too, although I ate legal food for dinner, I ate a couple of cookies and piece of cake-sans the icing. Didn't even enjoy it. My tummy is upset... Again I didn't want people to think I was starving myself, I am looking very thin. I know none of their business.

You have got to get me the icecream recipe, that is my biggest weakness... then again maybe not...

Well I think leaves and paper would go thru a person with normal digestion!!! :LOL

How 'bout the carrots? If he doesn't get gas, he's probably ok.

*SCD Vanilla Ice Cream*

3 1/2 cups 24 hr. yogurt (can be made with half cream)
1/2 cup honey
1 T vanilla extract
3 egg yolks

Whisk yolks, honey and vanilla together. Slowly whisk in yogurt (best if it's room temp. so as to not harden the honey.) Refrigerate for 3 hours or overnight. Process in an ice cream maker.

I also saw this one the other day too
http://www.scdrecipe.com/r_022_00376.html


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessviola*

also, what types of pots/pans/etc do you use?

I have found some really good buys at Ross and Marshalls for stainless steel cookware with copper bottoms.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Sale pending on the yogurt maker


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
OK, I've recently ordered the book...Gottschall....anyway, I've got a question. It might be answered in the book, but I thougt I'd go ahead and ask.
How do you know when the gut is healed? I realize it takes a long time, but how do you know?

Also-Just wanted to gripe...our local paper just ran a story today about how "they" have determined that vaccines do not have any connection to autism. Like they are perfectly safe, no one question anyone of any type of authority....blah blah blah! Just makes me so mad!







Sorry, I just figured you guys might understand my irritation.

You are pretty much healed when all your symptoms disappear. I forget if it's at that point or the six month mark you can add things like shredded coconut, dried fruit, whole nuts, beans, etc. Because I think if you do add these advanced SCD legal foods and still cannot digest them, you shouldn't eat them.

Then when your symptoms disappear, you should stay on the diet for another year afterwards. If at that point you try things that are not on the SCD diet and you get symptoms, you are not healed.

*Re: Vaccines and Autism*

I have done a great deal of reading on this including the fabulous book, "Evidence of Harm". It seriously makes me **sick to my stomach** to hear this over and over again from the Powers That Be. If you read all the studies which are pointed to as "proof" of this, they are population studies, and they all have fatal flaws (including fudging the numbers by adding a subset of outpatient children in second half which wasn't there in first half. The Denmark study I believe.)

I just heard a snippet on NPR the other day about genetic causes of Autism and Asperger's epidemic ... *there is NO such thing as a genetic epidemic*!!!! I feel like I'm living in Crazy Land.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, *I honestly believe with all my heart my son would have autism if he had been vaxed.* (Our Ped still had old lots of vaxes from the state that were not due to expire until 2004/5 which meant some still had thimerosal. Which of course he said wasn't a concern. Of course dontcha know, he has a child with Asperger's. That is when I started reading for myself, thank heavens for the Vax forum here.)

All ASD kids have totally messed up guts. And parents of ASD kids are the best source of info on gut healing, most are much worse off than what we are going thru.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Oh Jane thanks for the ice cream recipe. The in-laws have an ice cream maker , that I think I can borrow. Well, lil' man slept great last night, so I guess that's good, of course he didn't get to really nap yesterday and we went to bed late. I found small pieces of carrot in his poo, hasn't really been gassy. It was yellow/ with some deep green and mucus this am, but he has been having mucus already, smell was good though.

jessica re pots

we have a set of copper bottom stainless steel that I use alot
1 cast iron I use when I need a pan (wish I had more)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessviola*







we have a crockpot, i should use that.

i have some more questions. i thought we were getting our cooking utensils/pots/pans/plates/glasses clean, but then today when i was cooking, i noticed that some of the hot peppers dh cooked last night crept into my food. how do those of you with other household members not on the diet make sure everything is properly cleaned?

also, what types of pots/pans/etc do you use? right now we have some terrible teflon coated ones (i know, i know, i hate them and really want to replace them but $$ are a big issue right now) and i'd like to start slowly replacing them one by one with something better. i think any new pans i get will be reserved for my cooking to help avoid the previous problem.

where do you find fresh goat milk? i've only seen powdered in the stores but really have no clue where to look.

should i be using a specific dish detergent or dishwashing liquid? i rinse really well, but still fear they leave a residue.

I like the Cuisinart stainless steel pans
http://www.cuisinart.com/cgi-bin/ind...i?item_id=77-7

They have a an aluminum core (sandwiched between SS so doesn't touch food) to heat up fast and hold heat. And they are pretty inexpensive. I get a piece at a time at Linens N Things with their 20% off coupons that are always in mail. They aren't All Clad... which I would get if money is no object but they are good. I use baking soda to keep them scrub off stains. With SS you gotta make sure to heat up the pan very well first, then put in oil/fat so the food won't stick. Eggs come out great this way, but DH still hasn't gotten the hang of it, and he always makes a mess.









My Whole Foods has this goat's milk in the dairy case, but it's from VT. so might not be available everywhere http://www.oakknolldairy.com/home.html
I've also gotten some raw goat's milk at a farm near us, but they have this elaborate system of reservations that I always miss.

I use Ecover natural dishwasher detergent, both powder and tablets are good, and whatever natural liquid is on sale. It skeeves me out to use regular detergent.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Eggs come out great this way, but DH still hasn't gotten the hang of it, and he always makes a mess.



















Quote:

I use Ecover natural dishwasher detergent, both powder and tablets are good, and whatever natural liquid is on sale. It skeeves me out to use regular detergent.








We use some sort of eco-friendly Trader Joe's soap. I am not sure how eco-friendly it is, however, since I haven't delved into this topic yet.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Jane, thanks for the tip on cooking eggs, maybe that's why mine stick half the time!


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Quote:

I honestly believe with all my heart my son would have autism if he had been vaxed
I so know EXACTLY what you're saying. I feel the same way about our dd, who praise God is ok. (We've skipped all vax) She's the whole reason I found this thread, have ordered this book and am about to kick our current eating habits to the curb!








Thanks Jane!








And btw-may I just say thanks to all you guys for all your input and advice and sharing...you are all invaluable.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Ok, the thrush came back today














So much for waiting to go on the diet. I just keep thinking about all the holidays coming up and also a 10 day vacation and I know I will cheat, cheat , cheat. But, I guess there will always be excuses to not start. I have a hard time telling myself no to anything let alone food.

I have been really lenient on what I am giving dd too. Cookies, pretzels, crackers (all pretty healthy versions). She loves them too. I really don't know what to feed her and keep it easy on myself so that I can get some work done. But I have noticed and it could just be teething, but she is very disagreeable thoughout the day and sleeping horribly. Up all night every couple hours last night and only an hour nap today. Her poops haven't been to great either. Lots of undigested food in there.

Which brings me to my question. What should I feed dd? She refuses to eat pureed food or off a spoon or let me feed her anything. I usually just steam everything for a really long time and then cut in small pieces.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Which brings me to my question. What should I feed dd? She refuses to eat pureed food or off a spoon or let me feed her anything. I usually just steam everything for a really long time and then cut in small pieces.

Do you think she would drink broth out of a sippy cup? My son has always loved broth, if it is well salted and flavorful.


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
*
I just heard a snippet on NPR the other day about genetic causes of Autism and Asperger's epidemic ... there is NO such thing as a genetic epidemic!!!! I feel like I'm living in Crazy Land.

*
*
*
*
Isn't that true!! The "mental health" system wants eveyone to believe all "mental illness" is genetic and you need drugs to deal with it. Read "Mad in America" by Robert Whitaker for more insight into the politics and money behind that one!

I finally switched pediatricians as a new one came to town who knows what an elimination diet is! We saw him today, Jasmine's 15 mo birthday!

The yeast diet is working well. I'm feeling better, even though I cheated a bit.*


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Just wanted to post a recipe that looks mostly SCD legal (substitute vinegar for the cooking sherry):

Roasted Squash Soup - Recipe
http://www.care2.com/channels/solutions/food/949
Adapted from Vegetarian Planet, by Didi Emmons (Harvard Common Press, 1997).

INGREDIENTS

1 small butternut squash (about 1 1/2 pounds), cut in half
1 acorn squash, cut in half
1/2 spaghetti squash (about 1 1/2 pounds)
3 tablespoons butter or olive oil
1 large onion, chopped
3 garlic cloves, minced
1 tablespoon minced fresh ginger
1 teaspoon curry powder
2 Granny Smith or other tart apples, peeled and cut into 1/2-inch chunks
2/3 cup sherry
5 cups water or vegetable stock
1 teaspoon salt
Fresh-ground black pepper to taste
Pinch cayenne (optional)

1. Preheat oven to 400F. Lay the squash halves cut side down on baking sheets, and roast them for 45 minutes or until the flesh is soft (the spaghetti squash may take a bit longer). When the squash has cooled a little, scoop out the seeds and discard them. Then, with a large spoon, scoop out the flesh of the squash into a bowl.

2. Heat the butter or oil in a medium saucepan over medium heat. Ad the onion. Coo for 5 minutes, stirring frequently, until the onion softens. Add the garlic, ginger, and curry powder, and cook, stirring, for 1 minute. Add the apples and the sherry, and simmer for 10 minutes, or until the apples soften.

3. Puree the squash flesh with the water or stock in batches in a blender or food processor. Transfer the squash puree to a large saucepan, then puree the apple-sherry mixture, and add this to the pureed squash.

4. Heat the soup, and season it with the salt, pepper, and, if you like, cayenne. Ladle the hot soup into bowls, and serve.

Serves 6.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

*pookietooth*, the recipe sounds yummy! so many great uses for all this fabulous winter squash available now. I was looking at my grocery receipt the other day- 13 lbs of various squash.

Oh, the *mental health system* in America, the *Heatlhcare system* in America, it is all so very infuriating. Heaven forbid we try to prevent problems. Heaven forbid we suggest that maybe some problems are caused by our horrible diets and lack of exercise. Heaven forbid we admit that some of the things that the health care professionals have been feeding to us is actually making things worse. Nope, there must be a pill for everything. It must be genetics, it cannot be anyone or anythings fault. I have tried to suggest to people about changing their or their kid's diet because of certain problems, people won't even hear anything of it- I think we like to be miserable..... ok, my rant off!

*Sarah*- That is great you have found a knowledgable ped, that is rare indeed! Glad you are feeling better.

*Aristacat*- ugh, sorry the thrush is back. Sometimes we need a good kick in the pants to get motivated though. My lil' guy is currently not eating, but what I plan to do when he starts eating again is to slow cook legal fruits and veggies and put them in bite size bites for him to grab, he doesn't like being feed either. I am definitely staying away from the carbs, they are really empty calories anyway- mostly that is. I would definitley say that what she is eating is affecting her! I know my lil' guy would love anything crunchy- I do too, I think a lot of that is texture and a lot is that it tastes good. However, if it makes them feel bad we have to keep them away from it..

*zanelee*-good luck on the start of your journey! It is amazing what we will do for them isn't it?

Ok folks, gotta be honest, I have cheated horribly for the past 3 days. It started with Birthday cake Sunday, then breadsticks MOnday- which I couldn't stop eating, and cake again yesterday. I have been clean today though...

Luke slept fine Sunday, poops normal. Yesterday he had diarrhea and today it hasn't been too great either. He is also seems to have caught a cold and we were awake every 20 min last night because he couldn't breath well.

I think the diarrhea might be from the fact he got the garlic press out of the dishwasher(dirty) and was mouthing on it. If you guys remember he got an immediate rash on his face before from handling it.

I felt like a crack head, I wanted it sooo bad and I didn't even enjoy it. I felt like crap afterwards. I know this will sound crazy but I think it makes me mean. Maybe I am just looking for an excuse, but I know I am not always this mean, horrible mommy. HOwever, the past few days I have come about 1 in from actually smacking him- his butt, hand, whatever. I know it is irrational, I know it is horrible. Sometimes I just think I am not fit. I want no one to see how I parent when no one is looking. I yell at times, absolutley no patience. Dh and I want a large family and I want another kiddo, but look how I am handling this one. I know lack of sleep plays in this as well. I honestly didn't think I had this big of an issue, but looking back (and my posts are a huge indicator) I was insane with the initial die-off I guess I got to go through it again.

I am just getting so mad at myself. I know all the reasons not to do it, yet I do. I feel like we are never going to make progress because I am sabotaging things. I feel I need to pick something and stick to it, either what the ND says or the SCD. I am still waiting on my book though, that would make it so much easier.

So, if anyone has read through this and has any wisdom or support I could use it very much right now..... Thinking perhaps I need to be medicated.....


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
I felt like a crack head, I wanted it sooo bad and I didn't even enjoy it. I felt like crap afterwards. I know this will sound crazy but I think it makes me mean. Maybe I am just looking for an excuse, but I know I am not always this mean, horrible mommy. HOwever, the past few days I have come about 1 in from actually smacking him- his butt, hand, whatever. I know it is irrational, I know it is horrible. Sometimes I just think I am not fit. I want no one to see how I parent when no one is looking. I yell at times, absolutley no patience. Dh and I want a large family and I want another kiddo, but look how I am handling this one. I know lack of sleep plays in this as well. I honestly didn't think I had this big of an issue, but looking back (and my posts are a huge indicator) I was insane with the initial die-off I guess I got to go through it again.

I am just getting so mad at myself. I know all the reasons not to do it, yet I do. I feel like we are never going to make progress because I am sabotaging things. I feel I need to pick something and stick to it, either what the ND says or the SCD. I am still waiting on my book though, that would make it so much easier.

So, if anyone has read through this and has any wisdom or support I could use it very much right now..... Thinking perhaps I need to be medicated.....

Well you know what they say... admitting your problems are the first step to solving them







And you certainly are willing to face your issues, many people can't even do that!!!! It does take time, and several missteps in order to resolve to change. In my case it did too!

*There is DEFINATELY a neurological component to gut problems...* attributed to yeast and bacteria overgrowth. Toxins released by them are like alcohol in their chemical makeup. So it would make sense that an imbalance and die off creates sleep disorders and personality changes, like alcohol.

I know I have been literally insane from sleep deprivation many many times. That also makes me mean.

Hang in there, you're learning a lesson... and sometimes we all need to be bashed on the head in order to get something to sink in (again speaking from experience here).


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Interesting info about enzymes and other treatments for bacteria/yeast problems:

http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionbacteria.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Ok, the thrush came back today














So much for waiting to go on the diet. I just keep thinking about all the holidays coming up and also a 10 day vacation and I know I will cheat, cheat , cheat. But, I guess there will always be excuses to not start. I have a hard time telling myself no to anything let alone food.

I have been really lenient on what I am giving dd too. Cookies, pretzels, crackers (all pretty healthy versions). She loves them too. I really don't know what to feed her and keep it easy on myself so that I can get some work done. But I have noticed and it could just be teething, but she is very disagreeable thoughout the day and sleeping horribly. Up all night every couple hours last night and only an hour nap today. Her poops haven't been to great either. Lots of undigested food in there.

Which brings me to my question. What should I feed dd? She refuses to eat pureed food or off a spoon or let me feed her anything. I usually just steam everything for a really long time and then cut in small pieces.

UGH! I feel your pain!

I'd really consider enzymes in your case, have you looked into them? Which is not to say that cheating is ok... but they can minimize the damage and also help clear out problems safely and effectively.

When I had thrush I tried Candex and it did work but was way expensive. I've heard that Houston's No Fenol is the same and it's cheaper. Taking enzymes on an empty stomach targets them onto the bad bacteria and yeast instead of food.

I'd cut out all the grains if DD is not digesting her food. Undigested grains and sugars are just food for the bad bacteria/yeast in the gut. I know it's more work but what about steamed chunks of fruit instead? Or well ripened banana or avocado don't need to be cooked. Let her make a mess, when I let my guy make a mess, he's occupied for much longer! :LOL


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
*There is DEFINATELY a neurological component to gut problems...* attributed to yeast and bacteria overgrowth. Toxins released by them are like alcohol in their chemical makeup. So it would make sense that an imbalance and die off creates sleep disorders and personality changes, like alcohol.

My mom did the diet with me back in the day and she has also worked with a lot of people going through recovery for drugs and alcohol. She has said many times "I wouldn't have believed it had I not experienced it myself, but we displayed classic symptoms of drug withdrawal."


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

yep, I'm an addict....and they say sugar isn't addictive.... or sugar doesn't cause hyperactivity in kids- actually seen that gem on tv at the inlaws house... ugh.. lil' man's poops looked better tonight, so I guess that is good. HOping for a better night and a little more sanity. Dh is off the next 3 days, so hopefully that will help. I have been an insomniac lately, well for a while, since he has been born. When I can sleep I can't, very frustrating. If I nap I generally feel worse. I just lay there waiting for him to wake up most of the time. rambling on and on again.

oh, I made the icecream. I gotta say I am dissapointed it is VERY tart. I don't understand because my yogurt doesn't taste that tart when I eat it plain. However, some honey remedied it. I think I will add some peaches tomorrow- I have a bunch frozen from a local orchard.

well, I should probably get off and at least try to sleep, thanks again ladies..


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
I felt like a crack head, I wanted it sooo bad and I didn't even enjoy it. I felt like crap afterwards. I know this will sound crazy but I think it makes me mean. Maybe I am just looking for an excuse, but I know I am not always this mean, horrible mommy. HOwever, the past few days I have come about 1 in from actually smacking him- his butt, hand, whatever. I know it is irrational, I know it is horrible. Sometimes I just think I am not fit. I want no one to see how I parent when no one is looking. I yell at times, absolutley no patience. I am just getting so mad at myself. I know all the reasons not to do it, yet I do. I feel like we are never going to make progress because I am sabotaging things. I feel I need to pick something and stick to it, either what the ND says or the SCD. I am still waiting on my book though, that would make it so much easier.

So, if anyone has read through this and has any wisdom or support I could use it very much right now..... Thinking perhaps I need to be medicated.....

Crunchy_mama, I've been mean, too, lately, and I haven't cheated a bit, other than eating some raw cabbage (making soup for dh), which is farther along on the diet than I am currently. So maybe it's just the planets or something in the air? I yelled at DS twice today, for locking his bedroom door so we couldn't get in (he was outside it too), making us miss a very important appointment. This diet is so much work, it's stressing me out. And I just found out I have a yeast infection. Ugh!







to you.
What does the ND say? Elimination diet? That's what mine is saying, cut out either dairy or eggs, see if it makes a difference. Hard to do on the SCD diet! But poor ds still has dark circles and bags under his eyes, and a constantly stuffy nose.


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## arcenciel (Nov 26, 2001)

*Gale Force* -







I just wanted to say that OF COURSE children sleep through the night! My oldest two have both slept through the night since they were 4!

*Crunchy_mama* it's horrible being a mean mommy. I go through phases of good times or bad. All the while I'm working on myself (when I have time) and hoping that I'm getting better. But I see the effects on my kids (and I don't just mean at the moments that I yell) and I hate it. I can't let me hate myself though because then I wouldn't work on it, and I need to do that for them. But it's tough at the times you can't control who you are.









*Aristacat* did you try yoghurt on the thrush?

So. I'm getting my head round what this is all about and I see it's worth doing or else the other improvements won't make much difference. I'm really daunted by the enormity of it all. I realise that although I've been doing NT things for a year, I really haven't made all that many changes! I can't begin to imagine what we'll eat if we don't eat grains. But I'm committed to getting on with it.

So the question is, if I don't care about the science (what I mean is I'm already convinced) do I need the book? I've found the introductory diet and the legal list, but do I need the book for the order to reintroduce things?


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

thank you so much ladies! It is hard when what you do contradicts with what you believe. I am trying to work on myself, sadly I am better, but boy do I need work. I don't know where this rage comes from, I don't remember being this way before. I guess it is with Luke most of the time because he doesn't talk back, no one will see me. I am this way with hubby sometimes too though to be honest.

*arcenciel*, I would order the book, I have been lost here waiting on the book. I've got the legal list and the intro, but what's inbetween... However I have been waiting for 2.5 weeks for it...

*pookietooth*, the nd says no carbs, or dairy, but yes on everything else. she wasn't so much concerned with the allergy issues as she sees it as a gut problem. It is very frustrating trying to do both at the same time, isn't it? Trying to figure out what's best and not starving ourselves in the process.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
My mom did the diet with me back in the day and she has also worked with a lot of people going through recovery for drugs and alcohol. She has said many times "I wouldn't have believed it had I not experienced it myself, but we displayed classic symptoms of drug withdrawal."

Yep, that is what DS looks like now with the circles under his eyes!!! It's so hard.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arcenciel*
*
So the question is, if I don't care about the science (what I mean is I'm already convinced) do I need the book? I've found the introductory diet and the legal list, but do I need the book for the order to reintroduce things?
*
*
*
*
Others may disagree but I don't think so. There is quite good science online as I've posted before. The book does have some good basic recipes for muffins and bread but I'd be happy to pm the one I use (for both).

As long as you read the Legal/Illegal list. Some things which need to be clarified are juices, processed meats and which cheeses probably. And are clear on what to introduce when (waiting on raw fruits and veggies and hard to digest things like beans, lentils, whole nuts, dried fruit, dried coconut) I say just go for it.*


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

However, whenever I need a pep talk I reread the book... sometimes it's nice to have something tangible YKWIM?


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## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

so ds's stock is finishing up it's simmering and i'm about to go strain it







thanks for the recipe jane!

i'm still psyching myself up to start. i found the fresh goat milk at our new whole foods today, but didn't get it because i don't have a started yet. i'm debating whether to try the dannon, or to be safer and try to track down something truly dairy free. i think i'm all set as far as food for me.

my biggest question right now is:
max is just getting over a cold bug and for the past few days he's been pooping very frequently and it's been neon green. usually he poops every 4-5 days and it's the standard mustard color, so this is quite a change for him. should i wait until his poops go back to normal or should i just go ahead and start? i mean, if i start now, will it just be a waste because i'll have to go back when his system is clear of the bug? does it work like that, where you have to go back and reheal everytime you have a tummy bug? i'm just guessing that because there's obviously something going on in his gut right now, it'll need some healing once this is gone. or will this go away faster if we start the healing now? ack i'm so confused!!!


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Jane-

Thanks for the links on the enzymes. It sounds like something I should look into. Although this science stuff makes me eyes cross!! I am always in to much of a hurry to sort it all out in my head. I am going to check at my local HFS to see if they have one of them and check out prices and stuff. And yes I do need to cut out the grains, but I am having such a hard time finding stuff for her to eat. She doesn't like bananas (threw them up when she was first given them around 7 months) and avacadoes. I've been trying to reintroduce them, but its a no go. I tried egg yolk, but she doesn't like that either. I think it is a texture thing. She loves meat and saurkraut! Any other ideas on what to feed her? I need some snack ideas, especially when out and about or at other people's houses.

arcenciel-

I am making yogurt right now and will try it. I am so up to trying anything right now! As for the book, I wasn't really impressed with it. The recipes look good though. I would try getting it at the library before you buy.

So I am making my yogurt right now and I hope it turns out. The last two times I've tried it's failed, but I think because the temp was too low. So I am watching carefully (only hard part it now when I am going to bed!)








to all everyone out there. This is one long hard fight.


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Hi, all. We are back.







Whew! Lots of discussion to catch up on.

Well we totally blew the diet while at my mom's house, but I expected that.
Now that we're home, it will be easier for me to transition dd back to SCD.

I found some plain Carlson's cod liver oil while we were visiting and gave some to myself and dd (hiding it in food). It wasn't overly fishy, but still noticeable. I'd really like to order the flavored one now that we're home. Was it ever decided whether the flavored was acceptable or not? I know we had discussed this regarding the "natural flavors" in it?

The question was posted on the SDC list whether Nordic Naturals with lemon oil was legal, and the only response was the suggestion that any type of lemon oil be avoided if you suffer from acid reflux.
So I thought I'd ask here again to see if anyone had any new information.

Off to catch up on the thread....


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

I don't know if this kind is SCD legal, but I love Green Pasture's cod liver oil. Right now I take the mint and it really hides the taste. I bought the cinnamon for my sister and that was great too. The orange was too fishy for me. Carlson's lemon is really nice, but I like green pastures better. I think they are high vitamin and are preserved with rosemary oil not soy(vitamin E).

Well just went and read the ingredients and I see that the mint does contain lemon oil too. But you could check out the other flavors. They have the lables on their website www.greenpasture.org


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## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

well i just gave max a little of the chicken broth/stock i made and his face turned bright red.







it's a bit discouraging because chicken tested as non-reactive on his bloodprint so i was hoping to take advantage of the healing properties of the gelatin. i'm not completely floored though because i'm a vegetarian so he wouldn't have been exposed to it previously and that's probably why his blood didn't react on the test. i gave him a little bit of the chicken last night and didn't notice an obvious reaction, but his face was a little pinker today than it has been. right now i feel like anything i give him causes him to flare up. i know it sounds unreasonable but at this moment i feel like he'll never be able to eat food. i know it's silly and all considering he's not even 1 yet, but it's the frustration getting to me. plus last night was rough with max not sleeping well and katie having a nightmare and being awake for a few of the wee morning hours (and of course me too comforting her). so i'm pretty sleep deprived right now and that's not helping my outlook.

as for me, i'm counting today as the official day 1 of my stab at the SCD diet. i can't follow the official intro diet, but figure it can't hurt to try to stick with just foods from the legal list. i decided i can stomach a little seafood and fish so that'll help with the protein issue. there's no way i can get myself to eat any other meats though, it's just been too long and i can't get past it mentally. anyways, i had a yummy squash stew i made the other day for lunch and i think i'll have some salmon and veggies for dinner. i just need to get some yogurt made now.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

aristicat- Wish I had ideas on snacks, but my guys not eating solids right now so I don't have a lot. Any easy to digest steamed veggies or fruits cut in chunks, yogurt, hmmm...

loon- I thought I had read that the lemon wasn't legal either, but I had already ordered mine. Not sure where I read that though.

jessica- I can really relate to your post. I feel the same about lil' man. It is hard just watching and waiting, hoping they will eat. Especially when you are ebf'ing and you get no break. Sleep deprivation does not help at all. I know before when I was trying to do the elimination diet it seemed like everything was bothering lil' man. It seems though since I have went on this, that a lot of the foods that I thought were bothering him don't seem to be now. Just throwing that out there, don't know how that will work for you. Good luck on starting the diet, it is hard, but I think worth it (This coming from the one who has been perpetually cheating...) Sounds like you are such a great mama eating fish for your lil' guy even though it really bothers you! Hope your supper was good!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I can relate to the sleep deprivation thing! My ds was up until 12:30 last night, I don't know if it was die-off or just more of the same old troubles we have with him getting more and more revved up the more tired he gets. At one point last night I just wanted to scream!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
I don't know if this kind is SCD legal, but I love Green Pasture's cod liver oil. Right now I take the mint and it really hides the taste. I bought the cinnamon for my sister and that was great too. The orange was too fishy for me. Carlson's lemon is really nice, but I like green pastures better. I think they are high vitamin and are preserved with rosemary oil not soy(vitamin E).
www.greenpasture.org

Can you taste the rosemary oil? I think ds would have a problem with it, not being one to like strong flavors.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arcenciel*
I can't begin to imagine what we'll eat if we don't eat grains.

I've been following the thread for a while, and pretty much am convinced that we need to do the scd thing. But I can't imagine what we'll eat, either. I'm going to get the book from the library again and try to make a plan.
One of my biggest hurdles would be a breakfast that could be eaten on the run. We're avoiding all the top allergens.
Without a plan, I know it won't work for us.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Breakfast on the run with SCD -- well, that's tough. Try boiled eggs, steamed apple wedges or bananas, chunks of cheese, and some steamed carrots. Cook a bunch the night before. Try all the recipe links for stuff, too.


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessviola*
i can't follow the official intro diet, but figure it can't hurt to try to stick with just foods from the legal list. i decided i can stomach a little seafood and fish so that'll help with the protein issue. there's no way i can get myself to eat any other meats though, it's just been too long and i can't get past it mentally. anyways, i had a yummy squash stew i made the other day for lunch and i think i'll have some salmon and veggies for dinner. i just need to get some yogurt made now.

Jessviola,

Are you a lacto-ovo vegetarian? I remember the book saying that the diet is very doable with dairy (i.e. yogurt, cheese) and eggs. But very, very, very difficult to do if one is vegan.

Hugs to you.

Loon


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## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

i'm not usually vegan, but some of max's bloodwork came back as reactive to cow's milk, so i've been avoiding it. i think it was the IgE, definately not the bloodprint. but that's why i've been avoiding it and why i added back some seafood/fish. i go through phases of not being able to stomach any dead animals and tolerating seafood/fish. since it's not completely turning my stomach, i'm fine with it







(i'm not a militant vegetarian normally, i actually feel meat is part of what we're supposed to eat, i just can't bring myself to do it most of the time).

soooo, i gave max a little more chicken today and watched closely and there was no reaction. then i gave him a little more of the stock, and he started cratching immediately. the chicken i gave him was the same i used to make the stock with so this is pretty puzzling to me. any thoughts?

and one more question, how do you know which wines are legal? i know it says extra dry and has the scale, but wines aren't really labeled in a way you can tell by looking at the bottle.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

So I made my chicken and stock and yogurt. Yea for me. But then I cheated so bad today (found a box of cheese crackers--which is mine and now dd's favorite bad food). Telling myself I can't have stuff just makes me go crazy for it. Gotta work on that

Pookietooth re:"Can you taste the rosemary oil? I think ds would have a problem with it, not being one to like strong flavors."

no I can only taste the mint, the cinnamon is way better though. And neither made me burp or have fish breath that I noticed any time after like the orange did.

Ok, so I am really really going to try and do this diet for real starting Tuesday (I already know Halloween will be a bad day







) What do you all eat for snacks yourself. Lately I am a big snacker adn I need something to take the place of those cheese crackers, or toast with honey, and all that stuff I am not supposed to eat. Right now all I have is carrots and nuts. Maybe I need to make some nut butter.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessviola*
my biggest question right now is:
max is just getting over a cold bug and for the past few days he's been pooping very frequently and it's been neon green. usually he poops every 4-5 days and it's the standard mustard color, so this is quite a change for him. should i wait until his poops go back to normal or should i just go ahead and start? i mean, if i start now, will it just be a waste because i'll have to go back when his system is clear of the bug? does it work like that, where you have to go back and reheal everytime you have a tummy bug? i'm just guessing that because there's obviously something going on in his gut right now, it'll need some healing once this is gone. or will this go away faster if we start the healing now? ack i'm so confused!!!









I know... it is all confusing!!

I think once your intestinal flora is back in balance and your villi (that help produce some key digestive enzymes) have regrown, it's not like a virus will set you back a great deal.

And I don't see why starting the diet won't help, of course unless you get massive die off.

So I really haven't answered any of your questions have I...









It's really hard to predict an individual's reaction, positive or negative.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Jane-

Thanks for the links on the enzymes. It sounds like something I should look into. Although this science stuff makes me eyes cross!! I am always in to much of a hurry to sort it all out in my head. I am going to check at my local HFS to see if they have one of them and check out prices and stuff. And yes I do need to cut out the grains, but I am having such a hard time finding stuff for her to eat. She doesn't like bananas (threw them up when she was first given them around 7 months) and avacadoes. I've been trying to reintroduce them, but its a no go. I tried egg yolk, but she doesn't like that either. I think it is a texture thing. She loves meat and saurkraut! Any other ideas on what to feed her? I need some snack ideas, especially when out and about or at other people's houses.


RE: bananas

They have to be very ripe... with lots of black spots. This means all the sugars have been converted to monosaccharides and it will be easy to digest. Otherwise, unripened bananas are one of the most difficult things to digest.

Have you tried barely cooked scrambled egg yolk instead of hard boiled? (or vice versa)

:LOL on sauerkraut!!

We have issues with food out and about too. Usually I try to make SCD almond flour/fruit muffins or cookies (with less honey than usual) for DS. It used to be fruit was our staple, get the kid some grapes or mandarin oranges (Roland brand is packed only in water) or some pineapple (fresh or canned) or any of Columbia's organic canned fruit which is packed in pear juice http://www.columbiagorgeorganic.com/canned.html
and he is happy as a clam.

However, he is not tolerating any of those things right now and I'm losing my mind.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
I can relate to the sleep deprivation thing! My ds was up until 12:30 last night, I don't know if it was die-off or just more of the same old troubles we have with him getting more and more revved up the more tired he gets. At one point last night I just wanted to scream!

BTDT.

DS and I now have cold/sore throats and are sleeping even less than usual.

Why is it that I'm dead tired and don't even want to move today and he is currently running around outside with Papa?









Happy-Happy, Joy-Joy!


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

OK, got my book and am currently trying to read it...(Difficult with two small children) and I have some questions...they might be answered somewhere int he book, but I haven't gotten there if they are.
What type of symptoms do some of you have of an injured gut? Is it mostly rashes, and gi upsets? Or do some of you have respiratory problems?
And then what type of die-off symptoms do you have? Same thing? Or what?
Just curious as I'm looking at our family's situation now, and wondering what might be down the road a bit.
TIA-


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## Jessviola (Jun 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*

And I don't see why starting the diet won't help, of course unless you get massive die off.


like right now







i started feeling pretty bad yesterday and just chalked it up to the extremely rough week/sleep deprivation. this morning (day 3) i woke up after 9 hours in bed (although very interrupted sleep) and practically passed out in the shower. i had to sit down and when i finally got out i had to sit for another 15 minutes before i could get dressed. i thought i was going to have to cancel lessons for this morning because i felt like i'd been hit by a truck. but then i ate a couple bananas (finally ripe enough!!!) and realized it was turn back the clock day and crawled back into bed for 45 minutes. i felt a little better after that and was thinking maybe i was catching what the babies had but then on the way home i had a







moment and i realized it was most likely die off. i still feel bleh, but this insight has me feeling better about it and like this is actually helping despite not being able to follow the intro diet as outlined. max's face is a little clearer today too, so i'm pretty hopeful.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

continued healing help needed.....

hi folks,
i posted an intro a few pages back. ds has tons and tons of allergies, had pretty bad reflux, has some general intestinal issues still, but the major symptom is that he has a horrible time falling asleep, relaxing, soothing himself, and sleeping enough in general.

i've read a lot of the thread and checked out some basic info on the scd diet. he did have a stool test but i don't have the results handy -- thanks for asking, though, jane, and i will try to hunt them down. he's on probiotics and flax oil right now. we also try to limit as much as possible his tons of allergens.

in terms of scd, though, i'm wondering if there's a way to heal the gut without doing that. i don't think ds will eat hardly anything that he could on that diet. he's super picky on top of all of this. the sleep is only getting worse and we need to try something new, but i'm wondering what other adjustments we might be able to make to address these problems.









help!
megin


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Hi all. I have such limited access to internet, it's amazing how many people are healing their guts now! Jess, I have info for you, so I'm just going to call you. We are going strong still. I have not been able to reintroduce allergenic foods to my kiddos yet, but I have been able to "cheat" a bit with digestive enzymes. Houston Neutraceuticals is the company we use and I can tell you they are AMAZING. Jane has posted about this before, but I have to second it. I have very overt GI symptoms and could tell if I have been affected at all, and I can honestly say that we are OK. The enzymes are great because they not only help you body process the food better, but they speed gut healing. I can't believe what a difference I'm seeing. It's funny, I feel so great on the SCD that when I say cheat I actually mean that I have added back refried beans, and used commercial yogurt in a pinch. There isn't any reason for us to deviate otherwise, we are all better off without grains (and this from a true addict.) I have no intention of adding grains back to our diet, even with the enzymes for at least another year or so. Quillian is still unable to have dairy or eggs, so Jess, I feel your pain. Selkie is coming along quite nicely and I feel fantastic. I've been on the diet since september and have lost over 50 pounds. My GI symptoms are gone. I hope that all of you find the relief that I have.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

just checking in real quick. doing very, very crappy here. Have been on a sugar binge and seems that my body is thanking me with a yeast infection! Trying to go off of it again, but not having much luck. I have went from enraged to depressed. I know it is the sugar, but cannot stop. Have to get over this funk. Luke has been paying as well for my eating, blood in his stools. Tuesday we see the ND, so still trying to do better again...

good to see all the new and old faces around here!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
I've been following the thread for a while, and pretty much am convinced that we need to do the scd thing. But I can't imagine what we'll eat, either. I'm going to get the book from the library again and try to make a plan.
One of my biggest hurdles would be a breakfast that could be eaten on the run. We're avoiding all the top allergens.
Without a plan, I know it won't work for us.









Deborah!

What are you avoiding? Breakfast for us is fruit, eggs, almond or other nut bread/pancakes/waffles/muffins.

My guy eats in the car a lot (we tend to go out in the morning and he needs a snack when we are done hiking or park or whatever). I just pack a lot of things in our mini cooler in little bowls, pretty much whatever he eats at home and just clean up the car afterwards :LOL


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessviola*
(i'm not a militant vegetarian normally, i actually feel meat is part of what we're supposed to eat, i just can't bring myself to do it most of the time).

soooo, i gave max a little more chicken today and watched closely and there was no reaction. then i gave him a little more of the stock, and he started cratching immediately. the chicken i gave him was the same i used to make the stock with so this is pretty puzzling to me. any thoughts?

and one more question, how do you know which wines are legal? i know it says extra dry and has the scale, but wines aren't really labeled in a way you can tell by looking at the bottle.

I totally understand where you are coming from re: vegetarian. It took a lot for me to start eating meat again. The main help was b/c I had a Whole Foods near us where I could get all natural meats. And then it still took about 6 months.

How I started was getting some recipes from my mom for childhood meals that I missed. First chicken and fish b/c that was the least offensive too. Red meat and ham/pork was much harder. Sausage was the worst! :LOL Ex. I did crave linguica, the Portuguese sausage, which is very lean. I began with a lot of dishes with just bits of meat in them.

That is SO WEIRD re: the broth. Am I dreaming or did someone else say this not long ago in this thread? Or last month's? And someone wondered if MSG or some other preservative could be in the bones b/c they were from a regular supermarket, does that ring any bells?

I do not understand allergies at all, but certainly be cautious and don't give more if you observe this. I'm sorry the stock he had this reaction! that sucks b/c it takes so long to make! Maybe you could try lamb which is supposed to be the least allergenic meat.

I found this re: wines
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...e/kb/wines.htm
but I don't know if they put the sugar code on the bottle? Or what constitutes "very dry".

A little more info, not much help though http://www.scdiet.org/7archives/scd010_1.html#wine


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
OK, got my book and am currently trying to read it...(Difficult with two small children) and I have some questions...they might be answered somewhere int he book, but I haven't gotten there if they are.
What type of symptoms do some of you have of an injured gut? Is it mostly rashes, and gi upsets? Or do some of you have respiratory problems?
And then what type of die-off symptoms do you have? Same thing? Or what?
Just curious as I'm looking at our family's situation now, and wondering what might be down the road a bit.
TIA-

It's so hard to say... but I do think respiratory problems, as part of the immune system reaction, can certainly be effected by the health of your gut. It could just be another personal expression of your body trying to detox or your immune system going haywire. One person might have eczema, another asthma.

None of this is covered in the book that I remember.

Die off... my symptoms were generally feeling like crap, headaches, diarrhea several times/day, stomach hurt, a little dizziness. But I really haven't had much of it, I just got better slowly. Which was frustrating but I guess better for the body.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessviola*
like right now







i started feeling pretty bad yesterday and just chalked it up to the extremely rough week/sleep deprivation. this morning (day 3) i woke up after 9 hours in bed (although very interrupted sleep) and practically passed out in the shower. i had to sit down and when i finally got out i had to sit for another 15 minutes before i could get dressed. i thought i was going to have to cancel lessons for this morning because i felt like i'd been hit by a truck. but then i ate a couple bananas (finally ripe enough!!!) and realized it was turn back the clock day and crawled back into bed for 45 minutes. i felt a little better after that and was thinking maybe i was catching what the babies had but then on the way home i had a







moment and i realized it was most likely die off. i still feel bleh, but this insight has me feeling better about it and like this is actually helping despite not being able to follow the intro diet as outlined. max's face is a little clearer today too, so i'm pretty hopeful.









YIKES, well that's pretty much it... although I felt like that today b/c I have a cold....

Hope you are doing much better tomorrow


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
continued healing help needed.....

hi folks,
i posted an intro a few pages back. ds has tons and tons of allergies, had pretty bad reflux, has some general intestinal issues still, but the major symptom is that he has a horrible time falling asleep, relaxing, soothing himself, and sleeping enough in general.

i've read a lot of the thread and checked out some basic info on the scd diet. he did have a stool test but i don't have the results handy -- thanks for asking, though, jane, and i will try to hunt them down. he's on probiotics and flax oil right now. we also try to limit as much as possible his tons of allergens.

in terms of scd, though, i'm wondering if there's a way to heal the gut without doing that. i don't think ds will eat hardly anything that he could on that diet. he's super picky on top of all of this. the sleep is only getting worse and we need to try something new, but i'm wondering what other adjustments we might be able to make to address these problems.









help!
megin









Megin!

Ah yes, your DS, my son's twin...









Get ahold of Karen DeFelice's book on enzymes and read her site:
www.enzymestuff.com

You can heal the gut using enzymes too. Her interest started when she helped both her sons with ASD heal with enzymes. It will be expensive and you will probably have to experiment, but there is some great knowledge in that book on leaky gut.

Look up that stool test, it will be helpful to know exactly what to target.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elisabeth*
Hi all. I have such limited access to internet, it's amazing how many people are healing their guts now! Jess, I have info for you, so I'm just going to call you. We are going strong still. I have not been able to reintroduce allergenic foods to my kiddos yet, but I have been able to "cheat" a bit with digestive enzymes. Houston Neutraceuticals is the company we use and I can tell you they are AMAZING. Jane has posted about this before, but I have to second it. I have very overt GI symptoms and could tell if I have been affected at all, and I can honestly say that we are OK. The enzymes are great because they not only help you body process the food better, but they speed gut healing. I can't believe what a difference I'm seeing. It's funny, I feel so great on the SCD that when I say cheat I actually mean that I have added back refried beans, and used commercial yogurt in a pinch. There isn't any reason for us to deviate otherwise, we are all better off without grains (and this from a true addict.) I have no intention of adding grains back to our diet, even with the enzymes for at least another year or so. Quillian is still unable to have dairy or eggs, so Jess, I feel your pain. Selkie is coming along quite nicely and I feel fantastic. I've been on the diet since september and have lost over 50 pounds. My GI symptoms are gone. I hope that all of you find the relief that I have.

OMG you don't know how THRILLED (and jealous







) I am to read this Elizabeth! YAY!








:







:







:







:

Congratulations, you absolutely deserve it b/c you have been on a such a long road. You made my evening.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
just checking in real quick. doing very, very crappy here. Have been on a sugar binge and seems that my body is thanking me with a yeast infection! Trying to go off of it again, but not having much luck. I have went from enraged to depressed. I know it is the sugar, but cannot stop. Have to get over this funk. Luke has been paying as well for my eating, blood in his stools. Tuesday we see the ND, so still trying to do better again...

You'll learn







and you'll get there eventually...









Let us know how the appt. goes!


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Deborah!

What are you avoiding? Breakfast for us is fruit, eggs, almond or other nut bread/pancakes/waffles/muffins.

My guy eats in the car a lot (we tend to go out in the morning and he needs a snack when we are done hiking or park or whatever). I just pack a lot of things in our mini cooler in little bowls, pretty much whatever he eats at home and just clean up the car afterwards :LOL


JaneS We're currently avoiding dairy, wheat, eggs, soy, corn, nuts, peas, spinach, lentils, black beans, strawberries, and seafood. The allergy testing she had (RAST) showed allergies to dairy and wheat. She has behavior issues when she has corn. And the peas, spinach, lentils, black beans were diarrhea and/or eczema flares. The eggs, soy, nuts, strawberries and seafood are things the allergist wants us to avoid on principal. I really miss nuts, but I'd feel better having allergy testing done before I try giving them to her. I'll ask for that in January.
Packing food in bowls to eat in the car sounds like an idea. Thanks.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

artisticat--where do you buy the Green Pasture's cod liver oil? I googled it but couldn't find any sites. I want dd to have cod liver oil, but I haven't found one yet she does well with.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jess, could DS be reacting to the carrots or other veggies in the broth?


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## mimi! (Aug 27, 2004)

Hi all,

I have a question about going grain free. I've read the pecan bread site, but it didn't have all the info. I need. So what carbs are legal?

We have found that we are hungry if we don't eat carbs with a meal. We generally stick to millet and quinoa, and amaranth or oatmeal for breakfast.

I totally dont understand why super ripe bananas and honey will not feed yeast. If I eat a ripe banana on its own, I feel a sugar rush afterwards.

I have also heard that not eating carbs will make you anemic, as discovered by an ND who used to promote seperating carbs and protein, and he found that if people stuck to the diet for some time, they did not resolve their (digestive) health problems, and some were worse. A couple even develped cancer while on his diet.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I also do not understand the milk and egg promotion. All the NDs I've seen say these are the highest allergens and to avoid them. I've had vega and blood allergy testing and both of these proteins are a problem for me. I wonder if ds is allergic to them too because he craves cheese and eggs, and from what I've read and what the ND told me, if you crave it (like sugar) you're probably addicted=allergic to it.

So, I'm now super confused!
Thanks for all your help!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimi!*
Hi all,

I have a question about going grain free. I've read the pecan bread site, but it didn't have all the info. I need. So what carbs are legal?

We have found that we are hungry if we don't eat carbs with a meal. We generally stick to millet and quinoa, and amaranth or oatmeal for breakfast.

I totally dont understand why super ripe bananas and honey will not feed yeast. If I eat a ripe banana on its own, I feel a sugar rush afterwards.

I have also heard that not eating carbs will make you anemic, as discovered by an ND who used to promote seperating carbs and protein, and he found that if people stuck to the diet for some time, they did not resolve their (digestive) health problems, and some were worse. A couple even develped cancer while on his diet.

So you are finding that you need the breakfast cereal? How about the rest of your day? How much in the way of grains?

I can tell you from my experience that I do better without any kind of grains. I am not really concerned about my diet being low-carb. I eat a lot of vegetables and fruit now and then. I've tried various grains like quinoa and millet, sprouted or soaked, and have finally decided, much to my disappointment, that I do better without.

Quote:

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I also do not understand the milk and egg promotion. All the NDs I've seen say these are the highest allergens and to avoid them. I've had vega and blood allergy testing and both of these proteins are a problem for me. I wonder if ds is allergic to them too because he craves cheese and eggs, and from what I've read and what the ND told me, if you crave it (like sugar) you're probably addicted=allergic to it.
It depends so much on the quality of the milk and eggs. Those supermarket eggs with pale yellow yokes are probably not worth eating. Free range eggs have dark orange yokes and a higher content of EFAs. And it's the same with the eggs. Back just after my c/s I had to pump my milk and discovered that I was producing gray colostrum. I just thought to ask the chiro about it. He told me that the medications had oxidized the fat in my milk and turned it gray. Rancid milk to my newborn. Nice. And it's the same with cow's milk -- the milk is affected by their diets. FInd a cow on a good diet, milk it, and drink the milk. Otherwise, forget about it.

On cravings, they work both ways. I just ate three bowls of crab bisque and am going to head back for more. But I have found that it has taken getting the diet in order to trust the cravings as something to follow rather than to avoid.

Amanda


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimi!*
Hi all,

I have a question about going grain free. I've read the pecan bread site, but it didn't have all the info. I need. So what carbs are legal?

We have found that we are hungry if we don't eat carbs with a meal. We generally stick to millet and quinoa, and amaranth or oatmeal for breakfast.

I totally dont understand why super ripe bananas and honey will not feed yeast. If I eat a ripe banana on its own, I feel a sugar rush afterwards.

I have also heard that not eating carbs will make you anemic, as discovered by an ND who used to promote seperating carbs and protein, and he found that if people stuck to the diet for some time, they did not resolve their (digestive) health problems, and some were worse. A couple even develped cancer while on his diet.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I also do not understand the milk and egg promotion. All the NDs I've seen say these are the highest allergens and to avoid them. I've had vega and blood allergy testing and both of these proteins are a problem for me. I wonder if ds is allergic to them too because he craves cheese and eggs, and from what I've read and what the ND told me, if you crave it (like sugar) you're probably addicted=allergic to it.

So, I'm now super confused!
Thanks for all your help!

www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info is the official SCD site with a 'Legal/Illegal' -list that goes thru every food. As well as a 'Knowledge Base' that describes things in more detail.

If you do have yeast, it is recommended you limit honey and fruit at first.. however, if you follow the SCD diet's premise... that fruit and honey do not require digestion by the intestinal cells, the sugar is not going to the gut, it's being directly absorbed into the bloodstream. The bloodstream is NOT where the colony of yeast live, your gut is. See here:
http://www.pecanbread.com/scdscience.html

All I know is that I am VERY sensitive to sugar and whole grains... I used to react immediately with gas and bloating...had tons of thrush while bf'ing... and the SCD diet has been amazing. I have seen it work myself.

This is what the author has to say about allergies
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i.../allergies.htm

The book explains more about how the food are digested and why it's carb that are the problem, because if not fully digested, they ferment and damage the gut, the protein foods do not. Of course whether a person's gut is so damaged as to not even be able to digest milk and eggs is another story but I like the SCD b/c it's clinically tested, it's not hearsay. It's for the most damaged guts there are: Crohn's, colitis, celiac, etc.

The reason why Pecanbread touts a dairy free SCD is for ASD kids which reacts to casein protein like it's an opiate.

I really know nothing about allergy testing since I knew my and my DS's intestinal flora was out of balance and that was the main cause. I spent over a year on Elimination/Rotation Diets and they fixed nothing.

Anemia can be caused by a damaged gut in the first place... the nutrients are not being absorbed so I'm not sure you can hang it on that ND's theory. There are also many causes of cancer, and I know improper nutrition is one of them.


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimi!*
I have a question about going grain free. I've read the pecan bread site, but it didn't have all the info. I need. So what carbs are legal?

We have found that we are hungry if we don't eat carbs with a meal. We generally stick to millet and quinoa, and amaranth or oatmeal for breakfast.

Hi, mimi. I struggle with this, too. I feel kind of hungry without the carbs and more full when I have them.

But for myself personally, I'm starting to wonder if the "full" feeling is a bit of bloating for me, because my when I don't have the grains, I feel less "stuffed". My body feels more "streamlined". If that makes sense.

Anyway, I have read from some of the SCD lists that for some, the hunger was a bother in the beginning but then stabilized. I think that is why Elaine advises no quantity limits on the intro diet, just to eat when hungry.

Also, I remember reading on Dr. Mercola's site that it can take a bit of time for your insulin levels to stabilize when cutting down on grains. Maybe hunger is a side effect of that, too? Maybe that is what happend for the other SCD folks for whom the hunger eventually abated?
Here's the link and quote from the Mercola site:link (middle of page)

Quote:

*Eat every two hours.* Most of us eat large amounts of grains and sugars that cause us to have large amounts of insulin circulating in our blood. When you stop eating grains your body will take several days to lower your insulin levels. In the meantime the high insulin levels will cause you to have many symptoms such as dizziness, confusion, headaches, and generally feeling miserable. If you eat every two hours for the first few days of your transition you will be able to avoid this temporary side effect. You will need to eat some protein, such as an egg, piece of chicken, turkey or fish, or some seeds, along with a vegetable such as a piece of celery, cucumber or red pepper. This will help to prevent hypoglycemia and stabilize your blood sugar.
If it's easier to cut down on grains gradually rather than cutting them out altogether, I see no reason why you couldn't go that route.
Of course, I find grains very addictive so either way is hard for me. I love rice and pasta but I have found that since I have cut wayyyyy down, that the less I have it, the less I want it.
Keep in mind that based on the science of the SCD diet, it states it must be followed 100% for healing to happen. But, unless you are having severe gastrointestinal distress (such as Crohn's, IBS, etc.), in which case sticking to the diet immediately should help provide relief, I don't see why you couldn't just gradually cut down on grains.

I am still working on finding SCD recipes that the whole family likes. Once I get a bunch of those together, I hope it will be easier and easier for us to make the last leap.

And finally, this thought popped into my head. IMHO I think any diet benefits from an increase in fruits and vegetables rather than an increase in either grains or proteins I find most people tend to focus on one or the other, rather than the fruits or veggies, when changing their diets. My twocents


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Quote:

artisticat--where do you buy the Green Pasture's cod liver oil? I googled it but couldn't find any sites. I want dd to have cod liver oil, but I haven't found one yet she does well with.
www.greenpasture.org

although I've been noticing increased gas and reflux in my dd. I wonder if it is the cod liver oil? the mint has lemon oil in it? But, she has had such a wierd diet the last few days adn me lots of sugar. I will figure it out eventually. So I would recommend the cinnamon i guess, but don't know if that has lemon oil or not.

I just checked out the website and they don't have the labels for all of them anymore, so you could call them and ask what is all in the cinnamon flavor.


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## mimi! (Aug 27, 2004)

Thanks for your help, Amanda, Jane and Loon. I'll look into those pecan bread pages some more. I remember seeing baked goods made from Almonds . . . sigh, I can't eat that either, my throat get itchy.

So if milk (I can't get raw here) and eggs are also allergens for me, what are you all eating for breakfast?

We just went to a halloween party last night with other toddlers and ds (2.5 yrs) tends to go nuts on the snacks: there were cheesies and homemade sugar cookies (the normal kind). He sees these foods and wants to consume en mass. I decided that the cheesies were the worst of the two (esp. since I'm allergic to corn). So I let him have the cookies, which he proceeded to eat 1/2 a dozen of. I feel I do have to limit him, and he did ask to eat a cheesie. He already knows there are some foods we do not eat. I am of course worried how this limitation will afffect him psychologically. ..


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimi!*
So if milk (I can't get raw here) and eggs are also allergens for me, what are you all eating for breakfast?

I mostly eat eggs for breakfast but just this morning I had fish and I also have soup fairly regularly. I get tired of eggs all the time. I know it doesn't sound like breakfast.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimi!*
I remember seeing baked goods made from Almonds . . . sigh, I can't eat that either, my throat get itchy.

So if milk (I can't get raw here) and eggs are also allergens for me, what are you all eating for breakfast?

... I feel I do have to limit him, and he did ask to eat a cheesie. He already knows there are some foods we do not eat. I am of course worried how this limitation will afffect him psychologically. ..

Is it possible you could be reacting to something on the almonds? Meaning that organic almonds might not produce this reaction. That is actually how I got into organic foods over 15 years ago... I could never eat apples, cherries, plums and grapes unless they were local. Something that was sprayed on them caused my throat to close up. I found organics and could eat them with no problem and I was in heaven!

I have seen other people say that almonds were a problem for them or their kids too and they use cashews or pecans. You can just grind the nuts up in a blender or food processor into flour meal. Then add the recipe ingredients and continue to process into finer bits.

RE: psychological effects of food limiting
I worry about my DS too, but he seems to take it in stride now. He knows some food is his and other food is for other people. We've had a hard time at playgroup, I felt somewhat ostracized since most of the moms gave their kids whatever, and I do mean whatever! Until one just got dx with celiac disease, so now we all bring our own food. It's so common these days, I don't think your child will be the only one. Plus, there will be other issues that you as a family will not do... it's all part of growing up really and respecting and learning the choices your parents make for you.

Hey, I'm already worried about DS going away to college and eating crap!! I'm seriously fantasizing about steps I will take such as shipping him raw milk and healthy snacks... and then he'd have to live off campus so he could have a full size frig... etc. etc.























But then I think thank goodness he is not celiac, it could be much worse. At least he has the potential to be healed. Can you imagine a celiac in college ... pizza party central?? UGH.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Oh and forgot to mention my latest breakfast idea: baked butternut squash with yogurt, honey and spices


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

C'mon over to November's thread:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?p=4039048


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