# Tell me why I shouldn't do this: consequences for pee accidents



## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

Ok. So Sam is four and a bit, and he was late to potty train. He has pee accidents every day. Several times a day. He does not want to stop and go to the bathroom. He resists going. He won't go unless he has a "pee feeling" by which time it is too late.

I have tried discussing it at a non-threatening time, making a plan to go *before* he gets involved in xyz. But when it comes time to go, he refuses. Then, "Mommy, I'm damp." Or, "Mommy, I'm soaked." Or, nothing, he just goes around wet.

He helps clean it up (not too well). He refuses to dress himself, but I help him get dressed. (He NEVER dresses himself, though he can -- that's another story.) Mostly after pee accidents he runs around naked, not wanting to get dressed, which I don't mind. Then he'll be sitting on he couch and I'll see pee glistening on the tip of his penis! SAM! Time to PEE! Too late. Pee on the couch, drip drip drip all the way to the bathroom.

So, my DH thinks we should institute some consequences. If Sam pees doing X fun thing, no more X fun thing for the rest of the day. Honestly, I think that will work, but at what cost? After a week of crying meltdowns, I bet he would stop peeing at the computer, TV, video game, whatever. It just doesn't feel right to me.

Can you help me sort this out? Natural consequences (peer pressure, daddy is not happy, feeling wet and cold, having to clean up, change clothes, etc) seem to have zero effect.

My husband really gets annoyed at Sam when he pees in his pants. "Sam, why didn't you go to the bathroom!!!" I try to stay passive and neutral about it. "Take off your pants, clean up the pee, and please put your pants in the laundry room." "Ok Mommy!" says cheerful Sam.

What am I missing? I know he CAN pee in the potty. He's just not interested and there is nothing motivating him to change his behavior at this time. I am tired of being

Peed On Mama

xoox


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Maybe you need to set a timer and make him go to the potty when it goes off. Like every two hours????

Also, make a log of when he does it. Is it while he is watching TV. Then Turn off the TV for the rest of the show. Or if you think he should try turn it off until he has tried (do this during comercial).

Have you had him checked by a doctor?

Also, check out www.askdrsears.com about bedwetting (I know you did not mention it) but it has some bladder training ideas. (For some reason tonight it won't open for me).


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

Must be frustrating! So it's mostly when he's having fun? I have a GD friend whose 6 yr. old son did this and she helped him by stopping the "fun" thing for the rest of the day - "X, I know you are having fun, but you need to stop yourself for a bit to go to the bathroom, then you can continue." She said after a couple days he started saying, "Mom, I'm having fun, but I'm stopping myself so I can use the bathroom." Hope it works for you! I also wouldn't rule out medical reasons - my best friend's kids are all late bedwetters (like, into their teens) and her youngest has serious probs, it wouldn't hurt to at least call a urologist and see if it even concerns them (he's pretty young still but you'd have peace of mind, if it is medical there's nothing they can do, my friend's youngest literally doesn't recognize the urge to pee. She's on a schedule to void every 1.5 hrs.)


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

My dd was having a lot of peepee accidents (more than one a day, each day) about 4-6 months after tossing the diapers--and for her it was about control. She was showing clear signs of needing to go, and refusing when I asked/reminded her to go. Don't know if this would work for Sam, but I had to change my phrasing to eliminate reminders/requests to use the potty. Instead, if it had been a while, or I saw her show "signs" (she gets dance-y), I would say "It's been a while....(or) I see you dancing. I'll be right here when you need to use the potty. I trust you to listen to your body." And the change was instant and (so far) permanent. She just needed to go on *her terms!

Obviously, if Sam is having trouble recongnizing the signs, this would not help prevent accidents......but then neither would consequences.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

IMO, the logical consequence is needing to wear diapers.

But before resorting to that, I would try various things to make going potty more "fun." I like the idea of setting a timer. I sometimes "race" my 3.5 yo to the bathroom. Sometimes I offer a piggy back ride. I generally promise that "the fun will wait" until he comes back. Other ideas -- he really likes if we both go to the bathroom together. So we'll go up, and I'll ask, "Me first, or you first?" He gets a kick out of "peeing on mama's pee." (Sorry, TMI?) I also know people who keep cheerios in the bathroom, toss a few in the potty each time, and let their son aim for the cheerios!

But if playfullness didn't work, then at some point I would put him back in diapers and tell him "I guess you aren't ready. We'll try again when you are older."


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

First off it's very common and normal for kids that age to have these kinds of accidents. It can happen for various reasons. I sometimes wonder if part of the frustration that parents feel is because they think that the child is doing it on purpose, they get embarrassed if it's in public, or they think they have to do something about it or the kid will never stop having the accidents?? There are other reasons of course.

I don't believe in using time out or other punishments for the accidents. I agree with Mamaduck, work out things that he likes that will encourage him to go (like making a game of it) and if that doesn't work then put him back in diapers.

When he is ready he will potty train completely. And there is a normal accident transition time that can last a year or two or longer in some kids.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

First, there is hope at the end of the tunnel -- my 4 YO has just finished about a month of no more accidents, but we had them several times a day before this. So, it does get better if you just hang in there.

We were very neutral about it. When he had an accident, we said "please go get clean pants and put the wet ones in the garage". Sometimes he would need to be coaxed to change and rarely we would stop whatever he was doing until he changed. As in, we need to turn the TV off until you change your pants. But the emphasis was always on cleaning up, not about the accident itself. I think the fact that it wasn't a power struggle and there weren't any negatives associated with accidents helped him get beyond whatever was causing them.

A couple of observations about your situation. First, outside of the problem with accidents, maybe you should work on dressing himself? That way he could take responsibility for getting himself clean. But concentrate on this when he isn't wet or you will be setting yourself up for major frustration.

Second, this is getting him a lot of attention -- his father is really reacting and you are stopping what you are doing to help him dress. I suspect if it got no attention, he would stop. Of course, that is really, really hard to achieve because it makes you want to scream sometimes -- having the umpteenth accident in a day. Since even bad attention is better than none, this is working for him. It would probably be better to give him attention for not having an accident than after one -- even it the after is negative. How about a reward system for each time he does use the toilet? We did this for a while until the pattern was set. We gave stickers. Or, if he has a good day, then praise that. We still say "Thanks for getting to the potty all day" frequently.

Good luck and hang in there.


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by pamelamama_
My husband really gets annoyed at Sam when he pees in his pants. "Sam, why didn't you go to the bathroom!!!" I try to stay passive and neutral about it. "Take off your pants, clean up the pee, and please put your pants in the laundry room." "Ok Mommy!" says cheerful Sam.
Hmm... I see problems in both of the approaches. Both stress the child and focus on the accident too much.

And I think definitly you shouldn't stop the fun things until he goes to pee, that will just reinforce his fears.

Instead, why not try this. Tell him, gently, when you notice he's about to need a pee, that he can go pee and then come back to play. You say he doesn't want to go, but I think this is the moment you should take action. If he doesn't go, take him to the toilet, as gently as possible, tell him he's having a pee and then you are both going back to play.


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

I think the timer would work. Set it for every hour. Have him go to the bathroom, even if he doesn't want to. If he goes, great, if not no big deal. After a week or so, depending on how it's going, set it for every 2 hours. Explain to him when there are no more accidents, you will be able to stop using the timer and he will be able to decide when he needs to go. It seems like he doesn't want to interrupt playtime to go, but if you're interrupting every hour or so anyway, he will eventually see it's not such a big deal.


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

I don't think there is anything wrong with making it easier to use the bathroom than not use the bathroom.

He should be cleaning up after himself when he has accidents, including putting the dirty clothes in the appropriate location and mopping up the wet areas. (Age appropriate, of course. Say, blotting with a dry towel and then you get the wet towels for finishing up.) Make sure cleaning up takes more time than doing it right in the first place.

While you make accidents more trouble and time, you should make pottying easier, perhaps by undressing and dressing him, even taking over the wiping if that troubles him. Make sure that he doesn't loose his turn when he stops to go pee, like with the tv or the toy or the conversation.

I'd make them equal choices, "go in the toliet or don't go" but the logical, easy option is the one you want him to pick. And then let it go...it will work eventually and you don't have to make daily decisions about response. You've decided that in advance, what you will and will not do. You can tell your husband that even if he never trains to the toliet, sooner or later, he'll be doing all the clean-up and laundry he makes, so who cares?


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

My niece (4.5) is very similar. The schedule suggestion REALLY works. At the beginning of the day (when she goes through this phase-- it's not every day) we talk about a schedule, and then I give her notice ("In 5 minutes it's bathroom time").

The other thing that works is limiting drink intake before we go out. Not so that she's ever thirsty, but I give her 1/3 a cup instead of a usual filled cup or something like that.

I would suggest, however, NOT following through on the diaper idea. My BIL did that to her once, and she was quite traumatized. Not a GD scene at all-- I would consider it out and out punishment and pretty sad humiliation.


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## flight (Feb 3, 2004)

We (DH and I) are having similar issues with our 3.5yo--he just doesn't give a darn. He can't be bothered to stop what he's doing to go use the toilet. While I certainly don't have all the answers--we've been working on this for quite a while--I have some suggestions that seem to help us.

Definitely have scheduled pee times. We go every hour. I try not to make a big deal out of it, it's just "time to try on the potty." We praise him if he tries, even if there is no pee.

Give him some control over when, exactly, to go. I usually say, "Please try on the potty in the next 5 minutes." (We describe to him how to watch the hour hand on the clock; he likes it.)

We have a potty chair in the living room so he can still be "close to the action" and not feel like he's missing out on anything while he pees.


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## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

Ahh, the community of mamas answering my questions! Thank you for this dialogue. Now, let's see....

*set at timer*
I like this idea. I think Sam would enjoy the technical aspect of this and the control of setting the timer. That would be fun for him. Maybe a watch that beeps hourly?

*empowering the child*
I have tried to let Sam take control of the situation, decide when he wants to go, empower him to "take care of his own body". He digs the idea, but then balks when it is time to go. Ideally I'd like him to take responsibility for it, but that's not happening despite my encouragement.

*going back to diapers*
Hmmm... Sam wears diapers during the night, but I wonder how he'd react to daytime diapers. I wonder if he'd feel ashamed, or that it was punitive. I will discuss this with him. It feels very "shaming" to me. It would also allow him to ignore his bodily functions which seems counter-productive to me as well. My goal is to STOP the peeing in the clothing, not to make room for it. I dont' mind washing the clothes, the couch, the floor whatever. It is more an issue of personal responsibility.

*work on dressing himself*
Oh, he CAN dress himself, he just doesn't want to. I connect this to the little brother/ wanting mamas attention thing. I have chosen not to make a power struggle out of it. If he needs more mama attention, I will give it to him. He's fully happy to go around the house naked. He'll undress himself and go back to playing bare butt.

*negative attention*
We work hard to give Sam a lot of positive attention and feedback when it is appropriate. I dont' think it is a lack of attention that is causing this behavior. I will open my mind to the possibility, and pay special attention to see if I notice that it is the case.

*behavior modification reward system*
I don't want to do the stickers, wall chart, etc, route. I have done it before. I don't love the external motivation. Do it because you get xyz. I dunno, I am struggling with this. It just leads to the mindset of "what do I get for doing this". I want him to WANT to pee in the right place. Is that asking so much?







:

So, those are my thoughts for now. Most of the time, I just kind of wiggle him into the bathroom and pull his pants down real fast and ok let's pee and back to what we were doing. Just get it over with without too much fuss. But when I leave it to him, or make it a "how about you take care of your body" or whatever, it's "Nah, not right now."

thanks for the observations and feedback. keep it coming!

xoxo pam


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## mocha09 (Jul 6, 2003)

Pam,
I am feeling for you on the Sam issue, and LMOA at the sig on your original post!!!!!!!!!
Should I begin calling you POM instead of PAM?????

M

(p.s. admire your humor in reaching out during a not at all a laughing matter to you.....and I'm glad you're getting support here)


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## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

tee hee...

thanks m!!

xooxox


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