# Lay it on me-reasons to not shop at Wal-Mart



## momtoNatalee

So far the only ones I know of (I think) are:

Not good to their employees(could somebody please elaborate)

Not enviromentally friendly??

I know there must be a million more, someone help me out, TY


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## PikkuMyy

WE've had a zillion threads on this - if only the search function were working (wait until after the server change!)

THIS should do it for you in the meantime!


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## momtoNatalee

Thanks, I figured that. I do some looking around when the search engine works again


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## Jazzmin

How about they put locally run shops out of business. I reccomend the documentary Walmart: The High Cost of Low Price. It was very sad.


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## mackenziesmama

I second the one from Jazzmin, they run local shops out of business. Our tiny town just lost 200+ manufacturing jobs due to China, and now, a few months later, we lost one of our two locally owned grocery stores, thanks to Walmart. Now we have another 30 people looking for work. Walmart tries to boost its image by telling you how many jobs they create, how they have such low prices, how they give so much to community. What they don't tell you is how many businesses have had to close because of them, the reasons they have such low prices is because they are screwing a farmer somewhere, and they really don't give back that much considering how much they make.

One final thought: Our four year old just learned the word Communist. Guess what? He heard it when my dh and I were talking about Walmart. That says it all.


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## mikefarrell

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## moonmama22

I'd love some unbiased information on this as well - I know of Walmartwatch or something like that, but any information I have all comes from biased places. I try not to shop at Walmart, but when you are trying to support a family but not spend any more time away from your son than necessary - it really saves a lot by getting some basics there. And I don't know that Target is any better, so why spend more to go there. I would need to know that my not shopping there is making one hell of a difference in order to spend the extra time and money going a hundred different places to get necessities. I'm certainly not a fan of Walmart, but I'm a huge fan of saving money.


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## nikirj

OK this is the single best reason not to shop at Walmart: THEY DON'T SAVE YOU MONEY.

On a trip there and to Target this past weekend:

Crayola crayons, 24 pack:
Walmart - $.25
Target - $.10

Notebooks, 70 page wide-rule craptastic quality:
Walmart - $.10
Target - $.05

SnoBowl toilet cleaner
Walmart - $2.45
Target - $.98 (NOT ON SALE...WTF?)

Scouring stick
Walmart - $2.48
Target - $1.98

Swimsuits, regular price stocked circular separates:
Walmart - $17/piece
Target - $15/piece

Average price I've paid for clearance clothing:
Walmart - $6/piece
Target - $4/piece

It comes down to....WHAT THE F.....

I was very, very surprised about that. I've avoided Walmart for a year just because I hate the FEEL of the store, but comparing item-for-item like that convinced me to never, everever go back. I had always assumed that Walmart saves you money, and I am sure that there are items that you can get cheaper at Walmart than you can at Target; they just aren't items that I buy. What it comes down to is that without exception, there is someplace cheaper than Walmart for anything I need. My grocery store sells baking soda in bulk for cheaper than Walmart's per-pound price. Sells toilet paper and paper towels cheaper too. I just don't get it. I'm all for shopping cheap, which is exactly why I'll continue to avoid Walmart.


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## Arduinna

biased information about walmart, LOL

Like the judgement against them in the class action lawsuit for discrimination of their female employees?

The biased information about Walmart comes from Walmart itsself


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## Panthira

Walmart is a monopoly. I like the comparison between Target and Walmart, but how is Target any better otherwise? (just curious)


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## momtoNatalee

Intresting info... I am going to research it some more, thanks everyone


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## nikirj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panthira*
Walmart is a monopoly. I like the comparison between Target and Walmart, but how is Target any better otherwise? (just curious)

I don't know a whole ton about this, but there are several reasons that make me think Target is a ton better:

- they tend to anchor malls and support satellite shops, at least around here, rather than stocking the same products and running them down

- they provide ample worker benefits, including those to same-sex couples even in states where they don't have to

- the workers just SEEM happier

- the stores are cleaner, better organized, and better stocked

- the items carried are typically better quality, although you still have to pick and choose. Target also carries a quite-natural essential-oil fragranced laundry detergent that satisfies superstinky husband and supersensitive-skinned me, which will keep me going back every couple of months; bonus, yeah, the little tiny bottle lasts me several months

- they don't fart around with clearance - if it goes on clearance it gets cheaper until it's gone

- they don't engage in obvious rebuttal advertising campaigns (example - Walmart doesn't pay a working wage - commercial appears with employees saying how happy they are with their earnings)

- they don't engage in such obvious evil as going to the optometrist down the street, stocking all the same frames at 10% lower prices, and extending their open hours to half an hour before and after his.

- they don't broker deals whereby makers of clothing, etc, make lower-quality products for them. Walmart does this. A Hanes shirt you buy at Walmart may be made on the cheap the way it isn't anywhere else. This scares me.

- they don't post things like "customers are free to price compare but employees of other establishments who are found to be in Walmart for the purpose of price comparison will be charged with trespassing"







:

There are tons more reasons why I am so much more pissed at Walmart than at Target. I know in many ways they are more of the same but honestly, I cannot afford mom-and-pop (I mean this seriously, I live below the poverty line and would much prefer to buy all our clothes at Hanna but it just isn't happening) and I feel comfortable with shopping at Target.


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## serenetabbie

WalMart is ruining the environment. It has huge factories in China, spewing pollution. China has one of the biggest pollution problems, uses loads of fossil fuel (the coal demand there is very high, so they are damaging the landscape to get it... just like years ago here in the US) and is the second biggest contributer to green house gasses. If WalMart would change even a little bit of the way they have things made, the impact would be huge and other companies would follow suit.

Where I live, WalMart has had a more personal effect. THere are big factories that closed when WM bought them; after the tax breaks ran out they closed and moved to (where else?) China. Hundreds of people were/are out of jobs. They got a law passed that says they can force a homeowner to sell "for progress" to build a WM after a farmer refused to sell his land to them. There is a huge WM going in down the road from us. We fought it, but the economy here is pretty bad since all the factories closed.


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## ChristyMarie

A couple thoughts from a former corporate Target employee...

Target doesn't treat their employees any better than Walmart. They may have a better public image of doing so but the truth behind the scenes is not any different.

Target buys and imports from the same exact type (and sometimes the same exact company) of suppliers that Walmart does - just in a slightly smaller quantity. They also do the whole "you must meet this price or we won't buy from you" routine that Walmart does. They even do blind auctions where suppliers must blindly submit a quote for products. The lowest quote is selected. Seems a very unfair way to do business.

Environmentally Walmart does "Acres for America" where they've donated money to permanently preserve an acre of wildlife land for every acre currently developed and planned to be developed over the next 10 years.

I'm not defending either one - just saying that from the inside they aren't very different, Walmart's just bigger and Target stores look cleaner. And have no doubt that Target's goal is to be as big as Walmart.


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## Mackenzie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panthira*
Walmart is a monopoly. I like the comparison between Target and Walmart, but how is Target any better otherwise? (just curious)

Well, in many respects, it is not any better. Starting wages are about the same, as well as benefit packages. Targets may look a bit better (but that is often not the case too), but are often more difficult to qualify for. Target has sweatshop connections, which is a huge strike for me (see my sig).

The CEO of WalMart is the highest paid CEO in retail, but guess who is #2.

Target is a bit better on the environmental and charitable side. They participate in the WasteWise program of the EPA, and they give a lot to the community.

So, you have to weigh what is important to you. I do shop at Target, I have choices of there, Walmart and Kmart for the things that I need to save on and they are the lesser of the evils. That does not mean that I buy everything there, or that I stick my head in the sand with their unethical practices, with the "I have no other choice but to shop there" cop-out. I understand that, but you can shop there out of necessity AND work for change too.


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## Mackenzie

Just FYI, this was discussed in the last issue of CAQ, which is where my information came from. They cite Responsible Shopper for theirs, if anyone wants to check.


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## naismama

:


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## milkymama06

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panthira*
Walmart is a monopoly. I like the comparison between Target and Walmart, but how is Target any better otherwise? (just curious)

At least Target has cute things!


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## Bad Mama Jama

I love Target. Just nobody tell me they're owned by Satan...







: Also wishing I'd caught the .10 crayons at Target...


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## francesca'smom

I stopped shopping at Walmart in 1997 when they stopped stocking emergency contraception in their pharmacies as a company policy. As of March, they now ARE stocking it (at least for now; Massachussetts recently won a lawsuit forcing them to carry it) but the pharmacists have the option of refusing to fill a prescription. I'm not sure how I feel about that, I still don't shop there for the other reasons listed.


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## mahrphkjh

Probably not what you want to hear but I have 3 reasons for shopping at Walmart

1. They will employ people that may not be able to get a job elsewhere - my uncle is 52 and mentally disabled and has been able to work at Walmart longer than any other job he has had.

2. Their formula comes in organic

3. They now have an organic clothing line.

but apart from that I will admit that their business practices make me want to scream.


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## BethLS

Hello everyone,

Compared to most of you on this message board, I am very new, and maybe I don't have the 'right' to post my views on this subject. However, this is a very sore spot to me, as I work for Wal-Mart.

I am an hourly associate. I have dental/health insurance, LTD, STD, and life insurance. I pay 78$ a month for it all, but it's worth it, and cheap as far as insurance goes.

I have a GOOD salary! NO ONE in my store makes less than 8.00 an hour. Including the retired door greeters, and 16 year old cart pushers. And you know what? I am in MICHIGAN. The economy here is the second worst in the United States, with an unemployment rate the highest. I think people better be happy with 8.00 an hour, or get out of the state! Take my brother for example...he will NOT settle for going out in the world and getting an 8.00 an hour job. He'd rather sit at home and collect unemployment because "I am not working for less than 12.00 an hour." And like I said, he sits at home, collecting unemployment, as does his wife and two children, while they are PERFECTLY able to go get jobs for 8 dollars an hour. That is pathetic. $8.00 an hour? It's better than nothing.

I LOVE my job. In May of 2005 I applied at a new store that was to be opened in June of 2005. I was hired in, and I walked into that store with nothing in the building. We put together all the shelves and risers, the cash registers, and put all of the product on the shelves (with their prices,







). We had parties in that store while there was nothing in there but empty shelving. We had 'meetings' three times a day where all we did was talk about stuff, and toss around a beach ball to kick back and have some fun!

It's been over a year now since we opened our store, yes, a few people have quit, but most of the people that walked in with me that day in May, are still there. Nearly 400 people. We are a FAMILY. When I started to feel ill May when I was pregnant with my first, all of the employees (including the assistant store manager! Who I later found out also had her daughter (weighing 15 ounces at birth) in the NICU my dd was in and had the same nurse for my baby's care provider!) told me to go to the hospital because they were scared for me and my child. (I was only 26 weeks) I am SO GLAD they were so caring and understanding, as I have a higher profile position within the company that only a few people can do, and I was the only one there that day. I delivered my baby just a few days later, and the support I got from Wal-Mart will forever be forgotten. Wal-Mart (this was the assistant store managers, and my fellow associates idea) gave me a baby shower, with hundreds of dollars of merchandise I otherwise couldn't afford. Especially since I wasn't prepared yet, as I thought I had a couple more months to go. Wal-Mart sent me flowers in the hospital, and still to this day I get cards from associates!

Wal-Mart on the CORPORATE level may be crookeder than all get out. (I don't know, and neither can you, because you have NO FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE!) However Wal-Mart on a regional (store) level is something to be proud of. JUST MY STORE (store # 5411) has donated over $100,000 in just a years time to local charities. And the associates of my Wal-Mart have earned through various activities and fund-raisers over $50,000 to Childrens Miracle Network. For one store in my tiny town, it's really something neat. And I can promise you, the employees at my store are happy. Because is someone at our store isn't happy, it is our job to find out why they feel that way, and to resolve the issue.

As far as the cleanliness (I think this was also mentioned) and the way the store is, I'll admit, the old Wal-Mart stores are nothing to be proud of, with old white lanolium flooring that easily stains, and a poor lay-out (as far as I am concerned, anyway). They're outdated, plain and simple. However, the NEW stores are really neat, with a great lay-out, and finished-cement flooring. (Really, I enjoy it, I want that flooring in my next house!) I am talking about super-centers here...

On the subject of contraceptives, it isn't a nation-wide issue, as my store and several others in my region carry them. I am on maternity leave, but my good friend is a pharmacist at Wal-Mart, so I called her and asked why some don't. And her reply was? "Because they get stolen more times than what they are sold, so depending on where the store is located (aka the crime rate) it's just sometimes easier to not to keep them on hand." You can't blame stores for that. If you want condoms so bad, go to planned parenthood, you don't need to steal them.

Oh and if you haven't guessed, I am female. As are 80% of the people I work with at my store. We don't have discrimination there.

We DO NOT 'fart around on clearance'. If we want it gone, it will be gone. Simple as that. We put hundreds of items on ISR every week, however much of it is food products that will spoil after a certain amount of time, such as fresh bread, cakes, and deli meats. You don't have TIME to fart around clearing these products out, because of their short shelf-life. With these, you get one shot of putting them on ISR.

And yes we DO allow price comparison from Mejier, Target, ect. In fact, where I work, Meijer comes in at least 2x a week to "comp shop." No they don't wear their bright red shirts and name tags, but we know who they are. It's easy to spot. And we don't throw them out.







And just the same, I go over to Meijer at least one time a week. (and I HAVE been asked to leave once by an hourly associate, until a manager came up to me and said I didn't need to leave, and understood what I was doing was "just business". I remember comp shopping for our produce department last year. We went back and forth with Meijers for a week, till sweet corn got down to 1 cent an ear. That is BELOW COST, we're not making any money by doing that, we're just trying to get customers to shop with us.

So please, you MAY have a bad experience at the Wal-Mart near you. But rest assured it's not like that everywhere.

And please, please, when you all say these mean things about the company I love, and work so hard at, it hurts my feelings, and makes me feel like where I work is the slum of the earth. It makes me feel ashamed that I work for Wal-Mart. It makes me feel like white trash. And nobody should make someone feel that way about themselves. No one deserves that.

Our cheer that the ASSOCIATES have written:

Who is Number 1? The Customer, Always
What store is Number 1? 5-4-1-1
We're Havin' Fun & Gittin It Done!

Beth S.
Ionia, MI


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## Mackenzie

BethLS, there is no reason to get offended here. The mean old activists mommies (and daddies) saying WalMart is evil is not akin to saying your momma wears combat boots, or some other equally personal thing. I am glad you have a good experience there, it is nice to know that they do not use everyone of their employees as disposable minions.

That said, I know that a lot of us, and I know for myself inparticular, we have done tons and tons of homework on this. A little about myself; I "work" against anything that has practices that I am about to address. The reason that I put quote marks around work is because I spend anywhere from 15-40 hours a week doing Fair Trade, Economic Justice work on a volunteer basis. The reason that is important is that there is no one paying me to say what I am about to.

So, What research have you done into the company that does not come from HQ itself? I am not being snide there, this is a honest question. If there has not been any, perhaps you should, seriously. If you have, can you tell me what is ok with:

1. The company being the 8th largest trading partner of China? I can ASSURE you beyond even the tiniest sliver of a shadow of doubt that a vast majority of the goods that Walmart brings out of China are NOT NOT NOT Fairly Traded goods. Why does Walmart think that it is ok that America be able to get one more pair of buck-fifty flip flops while ther person that made those flip flops is barely able to feed their family? And further more, why does the person that bought those shoes think that it is ok?

2. Driving local business out of business? The people that built these little businesses are often seeing their DREAMS stomped on and then burned. These people worked HARD to have their hardware store, grocer, toy shop and then have Wal Mart come in like a Army tank and roll all over the place, with shady practices until the mom and pop shop has no choice but to surrender.

3. $8.00 and hour? Come on now.... that is less that 16, 000 a year!!! Think of the elderly people that work there to survive, and have all kinds of medical stuff to pay for every month to stay alive. Think about the mom that is raising her 3 kids on that. And who, really can afford insurance premiums, that is if they even qualify. So now we have mom of three who can't afford insurance, and only makes 1280 a month and that brings us to number.....

4. For every 200 employee store, it costs tax payers nearly HALF A MILLION in subsidies (welfare, state insurace, housing etc...), AND there are over 6000 store in the country!!! My gosh, how can that be ignored?

5. Not allowing their employees to organize? That is just LOW! If you have nothing to hide, are treating your people well, then show it! In your next staff meeting, I challenge you to seriously suggest unionizing. If you are not out of a job SOMEHOW with in a month, I will send you a Fairly Traded gift. No joke.

6. Operating with shady business practices? Shaving off overtime, not giving raises, masked discrimination, questionable charitiable contributions etc etc etc.....

Have you seen The High Cost of Low Price? I am only half way through but I am sure that they address most of these points, but other sources are Responsible Shopper, Coop America, Oxfam, TransFairUSA, the Fair Trade Federation, or the Fair Trade Resource Network. These groups are not anti-Walmart (specifically) groups, they are organizations that work against any business, or organization that has practices such as Wal-Mart.

I sincerly want to hear anything you have that is against any of this.
Mackenzie


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## BeBe123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mackenzie*
I sincerly want to hear anything you have that is against any of this.
Mackenzie









Ohh ohh me too!


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## ~minnow~

I'm also very new to the boards, but I thought I'd mention this article from the NY Times Mag recently:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/ma...rssnyt&emc=rss

It's about how the negative impact Wal-Mart will (almost certainly) have on industry's definition of "organic" prolly outweighs the "positive" effects of Wal-mart offering organic lines.

"We have already seen what happens when the logic of the factory is applied to organic food production. The industrialization of organic agriculture, which Wal-Mart's involvement will only deepen, has already given us "organic feedlots" - two words that I never thought would find their way into the same clause. To supply the escalating demand for cheap organic milk, agribusiness companies are setting up 5,000-head dairies, often in the desert. These milking cows never touch a blade of grass..."

I know there're lots of factors to consider in whether or not to shop at a "cheaper" mass store, but the above is for me a big reason why I prefer to buy my more expensive produce at the co-op (yes, I spend a lot of money on food... sigh).


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## BethLS

Yes certainly I have done my research, and not on a HQ in Arkansas basis. I get ridicouled enough from people when they find out where I work, that I have to have myself backed up for cases like these.

Defense on Number 1.

Since Wal-Mart is number 1 largest retailer in America, I am honestly surprised at their ranking 'low' on the trading list in China. 8 is pretty low, considering their position in the US. One would assume they would have more invested there, perhaps even being the first highest.

YES I have no doubts that the workers in China (and perhaps other countries) are being paid the wages you speak of. BUT if they are so hard off, and unhappy, why do they stay there? Because they want to, have to, or choose to. People COME TO THEM for a job when they hear of someone hiring. Wal-Mart isn't "making" them work for them, even if it is indirectly. They don't need people in America fighting for their rights. If they want rights, THEY need to do the speeking up. I don't hear them whining, in fact I bet they're greatful to have a job period, especially with what has been going on as of late. If they hate it so much, why are they still there?

It is okay for me because it is business. Not personal. If I can go somewhere that sells something cheaper than the next place, you can bet I am going to the cheapest place. In these times, if I can save even the slightest amount, I will. I don't mean anything by it. It's okay to that worker in China (or elsewhere) because they're greatful to be employed at all, or else they wouldn't be doing it.

2nd Arguement.
Wal-Mart is around to make money. They can, and will. They companies that go out of business have my sympathy. But like I keep repeating, business is business. Does that mean that you buy "American" built cars, verses foriegn? Just because the workers in the factories over-seas aren't being paid as handsomly as the workers are, like GM? (even though, please don't get me into that arguement either, because the vast majority of GM employees make me sick!)

Do I feel sorry for the hamburger shack that used to be in town until McDonalds came to town? Nope, it's a new time, one must be realistic. (not that I particularly care for McD's, but using it as an example) I'll be danged I'd go to a burger shop and pay 10 dollars for a burger, when I could go to McDonalds for less than half of that. (again I can't stand McD's, just using it as an example.)

I have dreams too you know. But I am also realistic with them. Crap happens. When one door closes, another opens! I am not just saying that, but I myself have lived that exact example you are trying to use. Am I sour over it? No, because it's not the end!

3. The elderly also recieve SS, and are on medicare. My very own uncle, who is 74 years old, served in Vietnam, collects SS, is on Medicare, and works at Wal-Mart. (not mine however) He does it FOR FUN! He always says that if he wasn't doing something to occupy his time other than sitting in front of the tube, he would die. He chooses to work there purely for fun, not for money. He is not alone.

I know several elderly people that work as door greeters at my own store. They work there for fun! One lady is such a sweetheart, and works there because her husband passed away last year, and they always spent their time together. She's now lonely, and works so that she occupies her time, and isn't as lonely. (her words, not mine, Patsy and I are quite good friends)

8 dollars an hour isn't so bad! Minimum wage here is just over 5 dollars. What about the people that work at the fast food resteraunts? Not all of them at teenagers living with mommy and daddy. And I am not saying that all people make 8 dollars an hour. In fact, over 70% of people at my Wal-Mart make over 10$ an hour. You get paid more experience you hold in your position, it is called "steps". I'm sorry, but 10$ an hour aint bad money!

4. Don't get me started on taxes, because Michigan again is the highest taxed state in the US. (or at least was the last time I checked) I am more worried about the people on welfare that don't NEED to be on Welfare. (aka my brother and his wife) If people would stop being so lazy, get off their butts and work, we wouldn't be in the situation we're in, at least not as bad.

5. Not all stores are so evil! I would never consider being employed in a union. Never would I bring it up in my store because I don't believe in it. I *was* in a union once, at another chain grocery store. I was paid 5.15 an HOUR, with minimal (albiet free) health insurance. Do you call that fair? At that time I had no choice but to continue working there, but still, can you honestly tell me that is fair? Unions are not the catch-all. And besides, I don't need someone ELSE speaking up for me to get my point across. I can do that myself thanks









And GM is also a union and I can't stand the place. Here in Michigan, we call them "Oldsmobile Rejects."

6. Can't tell you about shady business practices. BUT I can tell you about overtime, raises, discrimination, charities, ect.

Overtime is not 'shaved off'. Heck I get several hours of overtime each week, as do most of the other employees there. Yes I will admit, we are asked not to get TOO MUCH overtime, especially during a slow period, but they certainly don't make us get rid of it, and it's always accounted for on my paycheck.

COMPANY POLICY is to give raises at 6 months and then yearly there on out. Raises consist of 40-55 cents, depending on your evaluation. You are garunteed a yearly 40 cent raise. Even if your e-val states you are being "unsatisfactory" you STILL get a 40 cent raise. I have a friend that works at the hospital my baby was born at. She gets a 15 cent raise every year, and only if her e-val is "exceeds expectations." Hmm? And I know for a fact what charities we give to, and how much because I am apart of the promotional and charitable crew. My figures on our donations are true for the year we've been in business.

Maybe, just maybe, your experiences where you live are accurate. And maybe, mine are accurate where I live.

Does that mean that you should have a vandetta against ALL Wal-Mart stores because of your experience?

I don't have a problem with you being angry at Corporate. I don't even have a problem with you being upset with your local Wal-Mart. However, you don't need to give them ALL a bad reputation, when I promise you, you would enjoy mine, the happy employees, the clean and quite neat store (mine even has a fireplace in the family lounge, where breastfeeding is encouraged!) even though you can't get past where the merchandise came from.

Let's just agree to disagree, and flame all you want to stores in your area. But the little store in Ionia, Michigan, is great to it's employees on and off the clock, and charities. I don't think they should have a bad reputation when they're truly good, even if others are not.

BethS


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## mamanurse

: After reading this thread. Pretty much my simple mind has decided...

Walmart employees are nice.








Target employees are nice.








Giant corporations that suck the life out of local busineses and economy are evil!!!









We do our best not to shop at large stores, but can't seem to entirely avoid it







:


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## HappyToBe

IT's just such a tough issue. It's the only local (close) store to us that sells more than old overpriced milk & plastic lawnchairs. So, yes, we go there about once/week. I do feel guilty supporting the corporation & what it represents. But, the prices are good for my family and it cuts an hour off my driving time in a big car with 5 kids.


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## BethLS

Im glad because I dont have to worry about milk. I get my from my bestest best buddy who owns a 400 head dairy farm. The cows live outside, but come in (in shifts) to be milked twice a day. It's actually pretty cool to see them all single file line up to get to the parlor. They're smart animals!

Mmmm whole unpasterurized, unhomogonized milk. Yum.


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## mahrphkjh

Actually, I only saw organic baby formula. Since there are very few organic formulas (1 maybe 2) out there having a little competion for price is not a bad thing if you have to buy formula.

Also organic clothing in a retail store will make the idea a much more mainstream one and thereby encourage those who wouldn't normally "think" organic to maybe do more research. Which would you rather buy an organic t-shirt at Walmart or a non-organic one at the boutique down the street at 4x the price?

Also, in regards to the China connection. The cost of living in China is much lower than here in America. But it is rising BECAUSE of companies like Walmart and Target. The more companies that manufacture over there the better the competition for wages becomes over there. This unfortunately is bad for American workers but actually good for China in the long run. China is where America was 100 years ago. Lots of cheap, poor labor but look where that eventually got America.

My complaint with Walmart is what it does to small businesses. But unfortunately, that is becoming standard and it isn't Walmarts fault. Target, Home Depot, Lowes, grocery stores, even Whole Foods market (the co-op) are all contributing to this. The cost of running a business is not in the product but in the labor, taxes, and simple rent of space. These are things that small business have a hard time overcoming.


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## HipMomma3913

Wal-Mart is notoriously anti-labor. You'll notice that no Wal-Mart has a meat/butchers counter. That's because back when they *used* to have one, one counter in one store tried to unionize and Wal-Mart shut them ALL down....this way, they couldn't be accused of violating labor laws. They fired hundreds of workers in order to prevent a couple dozen from unionizing.

Not to mention the fact that Wal-Mart censors the books and music they carry *and* deny women access to Plan B and sometimes (depending upon location) oral contraceptives.

Target may not be much better than Wal-Mart, but at least it doesn't have a hidden agenda of big-brother like intrusion into personal choices made by their customers.


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## Mackenzie

Beth, your "business is business" is exactly the mentality I work against. That is just not the kind of person that I want to be. I welcome diversity of opinions, but frankly I am pretty intolerant of blatant disregard for basic humanity.

I don't think there is anything more for us to discuss and it is better for me to just agree to disagree and continue to fight, albeit mostly in vain, for people who can't, for whatever reason, fight for themselves.


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## mahrphkjh

Mackenzie, have you read "The Walmart Effect". It is very pro-Walmart but I feel that if you truly want to be informed just reading the anti- gives you very little to go on. I haven't read either book but I try to not form an opinion until I have read both sides from as unbiased prospectives as possible.


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## mahrphkjh

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HipMomma3913*
Wal-Mart is notoriously anti-labor. You'll notice that no Wal-Mart has a meat/butchers counter. That's because back when they *used* to have one, one counter in one store tried to unionize and Wal-Mart shut them ALL down....this way, they couldn't be accused of violating labor laws. They fired hundreds of workers in order to prevent a couple dozen from unionizing.

Not to mention the fact that Wal-Mart censors the books and music they carry *and* deny women access to Plan B and sometimes (depending upon location) oral contraceptives.

Target may not be much better than Wal-Mart, but at least it doesn't have a hidden agenda of big-brother like intrusion into personal choices made by their customers.

The anti-union is wrong but I don't see why the contraceptive issue is so horrible. You would be appalled if our local co-op started to supply vaccinations on site because it is not natural and something most AP parents disagree with. In fact, a large group of people would probably start a writing campaign to get them to stop. In fact, I clearly remember a group here on the Vac board trying to petition Walmart to stop offering the flu vaccine in a spray form in their pharmacy. So if it is okay for you (you in the general sense) to try and remove some items from store shelves why is it not okay to remove other items. Walmart carries vaccines and not Plan B - it is not a "big brother" issue it is a choice issue on their part. Choice if for everyone not just pregnant women.


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## Mackenzie

one of the differences between vax and plan b is time sensetivity. When I woman needs Plan B, she needs it quickly, not from the fifth pharmacy she goes to.







:


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## mahrphkjh

True but still a CHOICE issue. The idea that Walmart MUST carry contraceptives or Plan B because you (in the general sense) believe in it is A. taking away their right to choice and B. attempting to force others to think like you (in the general sense), i.e. I think this is right and therefore you must also.


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## zavierchick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamanurse*







: After reading this thread. Pretty much my simple mind has decided...

Walmart employees are nice.








Target employees are nice.








Giant corporations that suck the life out of local busineses and economy are evil!!!









We do our best not to shop at large stores, but can't seem to entirely avoid it







:









very succinct but well said!







:


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## francesca'smom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BethLS*
Hello everyone,

On the subject of contraceptives, it isn't a nation-wide issue, as my store and several others in my region carry them. I am on maternity leave, but my good friend is a pharmacist at Wal-Mart, so I called her and asked why some don't. And her reply was? "Because they get stolen more times than what they are sold, so depending on where the store is located (aka the crime rate) it's just sometimes easier to not to keep them on hand." You can't blame stores for that. If you want condoms so bad, go to planned parenthood, you don't need to steal them.


I was talking about emergency contraception, which is a *prescription*, so unlikely to be shoplifted. Emergency contraception (aka "the morning after pill" or "Plan B") is time sensitive for the woman taking it, it has to be taken within 72 hours of contraceptive failure or unprotected sex. As a corporation, Walmart refused to stock the pill in its pharmacies in 1999. This year a court in Massachussetts ruled that they HAVE to carry it in Massachussetts, so they have changed their policy and will carry it in all stores now. However, any individual pharmacist still has the right to refuse to fill the prescription on moral grounds. ( There are those who believe birth control pills are an abortion.) If they have the choice to do this, I have the choice not to shop there, and I don't. Most doctors now advise women to fill a prescription for the morning after pill and keep it on hand, so they are not put in the position of driving from sotre to store trying to fill their legal prescription.


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## whateverdidiwants

Quote:

If you want condoms so bad, go to planned parenthood, you don't need to steal them.
Out of curiosity, where do you live that you have PPs as plentiful (and easy to get to) as Wal-Marts?


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## Tonia80

DH used to work for wal mart and I know firsthand taht they do NOT pay thier employees crap nor offer good enough benifits. they also tend to run smaller businesses out of town and also force thier suppliers to sell to them at a lower and lower price till teh supplier is put in a position where thier choice is to go under or sell to walmart.....thus more monopolozation.


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## BethLS

I am certainly appaled that everyone has such a bad experience with Wal-Mart. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE come to Ionia Michigan!

And we have a planned parenthood here in Ionia (a VERY small town) and several more in the bigger towns. (Lansing and Grand Rapids)

I know first hand, cuz I've gotten BC there before when I couldn't afford it. (when I wasn't working at Wally-World)


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## Mackenzie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mahrphkjh*
Mackenzie, have you read "The Walmart Effect". It is very pro-Walmart but I feel that if you truly want to be informed just reading the anti- gives you very little to go on. I haven't read either book but I try to not form an opinion until I have read both sides from as unbiased prospectives as possible.


I have not jsut read the "anti". I read A LOT about this subject (fair trade, corperate irresponsibility, economic justice) as it is my job. I have not read that specific one, but I will seek it out. Before I give it any credibility, I will have to investigate who wrote it and why. Walmart as tons of funds at the disposal whereas the groups I work with and get information from do not. I could be wrong though and it may have objective info, however, I highly doubt that it will combat all the negative


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## kehliouise

I am a recovering wal-mart addict. I have been cleen for about three months now. I have always hated wal-mart and their policies, but i lived in a place where i felt there were no other options...that is what my question is...what are people who live in small towns with no other stores except wal-mart to do? I have recently moved and im now surrounded by places to buy groceries like whole foods, and i can shop for household products at specialty stores, but i left my family behind in a town where the only stores wal-mart and win-dixie. most people that live in the town are employed by one of these two companies, fast food, the prison, or the school system. Needless to say no-one has a lot of money. Many people do not have cars or friends with cars, and there is no public transportation. the nearest city with more retailers is over thirty miles away...what can concerned shoppers in this sort of situation do to help their community become less wal-mart dependant.


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## Alex_and_B

They give to political parties. RED ones!


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## three beads

The cost to your community when you purchase goods from wal-mart as opposed to local business far outweighs any personal savings you may experience. When you spend your money at Wal-mart or any other large corporate chain you are throwing your money far, far from your community and from any good it could bring to your community.


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## AppleOrangePear

:irk

They will be purchasing tv shopping carts.. cartoons kids will watch while mommy shops AHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

SOOO WRONG!!!!!!!

I AM SOOO ANGRY..

I started another post about this though









michele


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## swimswamswum

I'm a Michigander too and I don't shop at Walmart. I don't agree with their practices and what they have done to communities and the global economy. I am however a proud member of a union. I support my neighbors who work for GM even if I don't approve of the company's policies.

I am glad that some people who work at Walmart do not feel they are exploited. Hegemony is an amazing thing.

I refuse to believe that you could comfortably raise a family in Lansing, MI on $10/hour. We live in a 2br house in a very working class neighborhood in Lansing and our basic bills (morgage, phone and utilities) run about $750. More in the winter (gas is really high). That doesn't include food, petrol or transportation. I see people struggling around me every day who work their butts off. Blaming people for being poor is mean as well as displaced.

I do support fair trade whenever possible and refuse to accept that people in exploitive jobs in poorer countries should just suck it up and be happy that glutonous Westerners need more and more toxic crap. Exploitive working conditions are such because we excuse them and because we want our "stuff" as cheap as we can get it.


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## Mackenzie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swimswamswum*
I'm a Michigander too and I don't shop at Walmart. I don't agree with their practices and what they have done to communities and the global economy. I am however a proud member of a union. I support my neighbors who work for GM even if I don't approve of the company's policies.

I am glad that some people who work at Walmart do not feel they are exploited. Hegemony is an amazing thing.

I refuse to believe that you could comfortably raise a family in Lansing, MI on $10/hour. We live in a 2br house in a very working class neighborhood in Lansing and our basic bills (morgage, phone and utilities) run about $750. More in the winter (gas is really high). That doesn't include food, petrol or transportation. I see people struggling around me every day who work their butts off. Blaming people for being poor is mean as well as displaced.

I do support fair trade whenever possible and refuse to accept that people in exploitive jobs in poorer countries should just suck it up and be happy that glutonous Westerners need more and more toxic crap. Exploitive working conditions are such because we excuse them and because we want our "stuff" as cheap as we can get it.

Can I sit on your side of the playground please....lol


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## mommy2girlies

Here's a great article on some reasons not to shop at Walmart. I despise Walmart and haven't shopped there in over a year. And another


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## Momtwice

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=508330


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## zoe398

My name is Mandy and I'm 4 months clean now. It was one of the better decisions I've made in my life.


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## gwynthfair

First of all, Zoe398, I LOVE that quote.

I've found this thread to be fascinating and a lot of good things have been said.

One thing that drives me crazy about Wal-Mart is that they only sell edited CDs. First of all, it's ridiculous to think that a songs meaning is somehow obliterated by a few bleeped out curses. I don't think that a CD with violent or "adult" messages is now G rated just because they bleeped out joint and f**k. To me it makes way more sense to allow the explicit lyrics CDs to be sold (just like the violent and sexually explicit movies) and card people who look under 18 just like they do for R rated movies and cigarettes.

Additionally, for the person who asked where to shop if Wal-Mart's all you got? For me I shop at Drugstore.com for a lot of stuff. They don't have everything tha Wal Mart has, but they do have a lot of natural and organic products that Wal Mart doesn't have. I don't know anything about their business practices, though. Additionally, they give you store credit back on every purchase that you can use to make your next purchase, shipping is free after $49, and it's so convenient to shop from the comfort of my home, be able to read reviews of the product and then have it all delivered to my front door.

One criticism of Wal Mart that no else has mentioned but has come up locally where I live: small town Wisconsin, is that they constantly are submitting press releases of their every charitable contribution (gets printed in the paper for free as news) but never purchase advertising to support the local paper.


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## mamaofthreecats

i can't go to walmart because it doesn't save me money. i buy stuff i don't need for one thing because its all so in your face. our health food stores here are cheaper than the regular grocery stores, and i'm kind of picky about my produce. plus, the parking lot is big and it scares me.

as far as walmart discriminating its employees, they could always work somewhere else?


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## Mackenzie

mamaofthreecats said:


> i can't go to walmart because it doesn't save me money. i buy stuff i don't need for one thing because its all so in your face. our health food stores here are cheaper than the regular grocery stores, and i'm kind of picky about my produce. plus, the parking lot is big and it scares me.
> 
> *as far as walmart discriminating its employees, they could always work somewhere else?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Honestly, I find that statement insulting. If a company is doing something illega, just go somehwere else that does not? Heck no! There is always some other victim to take you place. And No, it is not always that easy to work else where when the meglomaniacle soul sucking villian has driven out darn near all of the other jobs and/or you have people working there with little to no other marketable skills or who cannot affor even a short lapse in pay due to their meager earnings at that place.....


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## Leilalu

they sell all lace panties for girls aged from around 5 and up


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## Mackenzie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leilalu*
they sell all lace panties for girls aged from around 5 and up










Yet another good reason....and FWIW A&F was marketing THONGS for girls that young a few years ago....because of that they never have and never will get one CENT of my money!


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## AntoninBeGonin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoNatalee*
So far the only ones I know of (I think) are:

Not good to their employees(could somebody please elaborate)

Not enviromentally friendly??

I know there must be a million more, someone help me out, TY

I shop at Walmart as little as possible, and if we made more money I wouldn't go there at all. That being said, I was employeed by walmart for a while before I moved to IL. I was treated very well. I got paid the same as I would have made anywhere else in my hometown and everyone--store manager, lesser managers, supers, coworkers were extremely nice.

My biggest gripe is with the huge number of made in China merchandise. I look at something made in China that costs $3 and feel so bad because you just know it should cost much more. Like Krusty said on Simpons "Made for kids, by kids. And we pass the slavings on to you."

~Nay


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## lotusbeans




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## prettypixels

Quote:

YES I have no doubts that the workers in China (and perhaps other countries) are being paid the wages you speak of. BUT if they are so hard off, and unhappy, why do they stay there? Because they want to, have to, or choose to. People COME TO THEM for a job when they hear of someone hiring. Wal-Mart isn't "making" them work for them, even if it is indirectly. They don't need people in America fighting for their rights. If they want rights, THEY need to do the speeking up. I don't hear them whining, in fact I bet they're greatful to have a job period, especially with what has been going on as of late. If they hate it so much, why are they still there?

It is okay for me because it is business. Not personal. If I can go somewhere that sells something cheaper than the next place, you can bet I am going to the cheapest place. In these times, if I can save even the slightest amount, I will. I don't mean anything by it. It's okay to that worker in China (or elsewhere) because they're greatful to be employed at all, or else they wouldn't be doing it.
Yeah, the people in China who'd starve to death without their $.05 per shoe have plenty of options. I mean, why don't they just LEAVE???? It's not like it would... COST MONEY or anything. It's not like we're condemning children to help their parents make those shoes by our "we need $1.50 flip flops" attitude or anything.








:


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## lotusbeans

....


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## mamaofthreecats

i can't afford a pay lapse either mackenzie but if no one at all worked at walmart then there would be no walmart. meijers in michigan has a workers union, thus people, no matter how skilled or unskilled they are, can get health benifets as well as raises.


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## Mackenzie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthreecats*
i can't afford a pay lapse either mackenzie but if no one at all worked at walmart then there would be no walmart. meijers in michigan has a workers union, thus people, no matter how skilled or unskilled they are, can get health benifets as well as raises.

But Walmart will never be without employess until the people (in the greater sense, as in The People) DEMAND MASSIVE change. They have too much money and at the risk of sounding degrading, WHICH IS NOT MY INTENTION, there are so many uneducated people that do not know the evils of Walmart and will continue to shop/work there. Unfortunately, there are so many people in this country that do not think that they can afford to think of the consequences of their actions by dealing with Walmart.

I stand by my belief that to say "If you don't like it, don't work/shop there" is a monumental cop-out. I say if you know what is going on, you have a DUTY to act for change. How you do that can take many different forms. You can speak with your $$, which is very effective. You can write letters, protest, work for change in the legislature, you ncan work for Fair Trade or any of a number of other ways.


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## mamaofthreecats

i'll speak with the little money i have and not shop there


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## rachelmarie

We don't shop at WalMart for many, many reasons including the poor way they treat their workers, what they do to the towns and communities they invade, the cheap junk they sell, poor customer service, etc., etc. pretty much for all the reasons already stated here.

As for the pp who asked what could be done when WalMart is the only store in town. I would try to do as much buying online as possible from small companies. Other than that I'm not sure. Possibly talk with the mayor, city council, etc. about what can be done to attract more small businesses like locally owned shops and restaurants.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BethLS*
YES I have no doubts that the workers in China (and perhaps other countries) are being paid the wages you speak of. BUT if they are so hard off, and unhappy, why do they stay there? Because they want to, have to, or choose to. People COME TO THEM for a job when they hear of someone hiring. Wal-Mart isn't "making" them work for them, even if it is indirectly. They don't need people in America fighting for their rights. If they want rights, THEY need to do the speeking up. I don't hear them whining, in fact I bet they're greatful to have a job period, especially with what has been going on as of late. If they hate it so much, why are they still there?

It is okay for me because it is business. Not personal. If I can go somewhere that sells something cheaper than the next place, you can bet I am going to the cheapest place. In these times, if I can save even the slightest amount, I will. I don't mean anything by it. It's okay to that worker in China (or elsewhere) because they're greatful to be employed at all, or else they wouldn't be doing it.
















:


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## selena_ski

i shop at walmart- because of the 1.50 flip flops. i can't afford more and be a sahm. imo that is more important to me. i also shop at target, and anywhere else that will provide me with the things i need and the prices i can afford.


----------



## Mackenzie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *selena_ski*
i shop at walmart- because of the 1.50 flip flops. i can't afford more and be a sahm. imo that is more important to me. i also shop at target, and anywhere else that will provide me with the things i need and the prices i can afford.

Do you actually NEED the 1.50 flipflops or are they more of a want? Can you not shop at second hand stores because, regardless of the brand, the company is not getting any of your money from it (meaning, if you buy a "Gap" brand something at a second hand store, "Gap" does not profit from it. BTW, as far as retailer go, "Gap" is not that bad....just fyi.).


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## art4babies

:


----------



## mama in the forest

:


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## mntnmom

They even exploit their customers if they have the chance!! Salinas CA has a large poverty stricken non-English speaking population(largly migrant farm workers). The Wal-mart there had CASES and CASES of expired baby formula on the shelf. When confronted by one of my husband's co workers, they gave her a refund. But didn't replace the product on the shelves.







:
They could get away with it because most of their customers either didn't know any better, couldn't argue in English, or would be afraid to pursue legal action.


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## mamaofthreecats

mntnmom

thats pretty wild. that walmart needs to be reported. selling outdated food is illegal---even if it is formula. just cause they don't speak english, you still can't poison their babies!!!!

that reminds me of the time i shopped at the mexican store by my house and a non english speaking person made me interprete the experation dates on some cheese for them







my baby's daddy is an immigrant, and not a fan of walmart because the last time we were there the greeter racially profiled him. we bought a car seat and she thought we stole it because it wasn't in a bag---i was like, "number one, some people don't like to waste plastic bags because they are bad for the envirnment, and number two, car seats don't fit in bags"

intersting how she didn't approach me, but she got right up in his and my son's face. i was livid...........

it had to have been racial profiling because people act like we steal things at a lot of places that we go. we don't even look like hoods







: we dress nice and are polite in public


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## dallaschildren

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BethLS* 
Hello everyone,

Compared to most of you on this message board, I am very new, and maybe I don't have the 'right' to post my views on this subject. However, this is a very sore spot to me, as I work for Wal-Mart.

I am an hourly associate. I have dental/health insurance, LTD, STD, and life insurance. I pay 78$ a month for it all, but it's worth it, and cheap as far as insurance goes.

I have a GOOD salary! NO ONE in my store makes less than 8.00 an hour. Including the retired door greeters, and 16 year old cart pushers. And you know what? I am in MICHIGAN. The economy here is the second worst in the United States, with an unemployment rate the highest. I think people better be happy with 8.00 an hour, or get out of the state! Take my brother for example...he will NOT settle for going out in the world and getting an 8.00 an hour job. He'd rather sit at home and collect unemployment because "I am not working for less than 12.00 an hour." And like I said, he sits at home, collecting unemployment, as does his wife and two children, while they are PERFECTLY able to go get jobs for 8 dollars an hour. That is pathetic. $8.00 an hour? It's better than nothing.

I LOVE my job. In May of 2005 I applied at a new store that was to be opened in June of 2005. I was hired in, and I walked into that store with nothing in the building. We put together all the shelves and risers, the cash registers, and put all of the product on the shelves (with their prices,







). We had parties in that store while there was nothing in there but empty shelving. We had 'meetings' three times a day where all we did was talk about stuff, and toss around a beach ball to kick back and have some fun!

It's been over a year now since we opened our store, yes, a few people have quit, but most of the people that walked in with me that day in May, are still there. Nearly 400 people. We are a FAMILY. When I started to feel ill May when I was pregnant with my first, all of the employees (including the assistant store manager! Who I later found out also had her daughter (weighing 15 ounces at birth) in the NICU my dd was in and had the same nurse for my baby's care provider!) told me to go to the hospital because they were scared for me and my child. (I was only 26 weeks) I am SO GLAD they were so caring and understanding, as I have a higher profile position within the company that only a few people can do, and I was the only one there that day. I delivered my baby just a few days later, and the support I got from Wal-Mart will forever be forgotten. Wal-Mart (this was the assistant store managers, and my fellow associates idea) gave me a baby shower, with hundreds of dollars of merchandise I otherwise couldn't afford. Especially since I wasn't prepared yet, as I thought I had a couple more months to go. Wal-Mart sent me flowers in the hospital, and still to this day I get cards from associates!

Wal-Mart on the CORPORATE level may be crookeder than all get out. (I don't know, and neither can you, because you have NO FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE!) However Wal-Mart on a regional (store) level is something to be proud of. JUST MY STORE (store # 5411) has donated over $100,000 in just a years time to local charities. And the associates of my Wal-Mart have earned through various activities and fund-raisers over $50,000 to Childrens Miracle Network. For one store in my tiny town, it's really something neat. And I can promise you, the employees at my store are happy. Because is someone at our store isn't happy, it is our job to find out why they feel that way, and to resolve the issue.

As far as the cleanliness (I think this was also mentioned) and the way the store is, I'll admit, the old Wal-Mart stores are nothing to be proud of, with old white lanolium flooring that easily stains, and a poor lay-out (as far as I am concerned, anyway). They're outdated, plain and simple. However, the NEW stores are really neat, with a great lay-out, and finished-cement flooring. (Really, I enjoy it, I want that flooring in my next house!) I am talking about super-centers here...

On the subject of contraceptives, it isn't a nation-wide issue, as my store and several others in my region carry them. I am on maternity leave, but my good friend is a pharmacist at Wal-Mart, so I called her and asked why some don't. And her reply was? "Because they get stolen more times than what they are sold, so depending on where the store is located (aka the crime rate) it's just sometimes easier to not to keep them on hand." You can't blame stores for that. If you want condoms so bad, go to planned parenthood, you don't need to steal them.

Oh and if you haven't guessed, I am female. As are 80% of the people I work with at my store. We don't have discrimination there.

We DO NOT 'fart around on clearance'. If we want it gone, it will be gone. Simple as that. We put hundreds of items on ISR every week, however much of it is food products that will spoil after a certain amount of time, such as fresh bread, cakes, and deli meats. You don't have TIME to fart around clearing these products out, because of their short shelf-life. With these, you get one shot of putting them on ISR.

And yes we DO allow price comparison from Mejier, Target, ect. In fact, where I work, Meijer comes in at least 2x a week to "comp shop." No they don't wear their bright red shirts and name tags, but we know who they are. It's easy to spot. And we don't throw them out.







And just the same, I go over to Meijer at least one time a week. (and I HAVE been asked to leave once by an hourly associate, until a manager came up to me and said I didn't need to leave, and understood what I was doing was "just business". I remember comp shopping for our produce department last year. We went back and forth with Meijers for a week, till sweet corn got down to 1 cent an ear. That is BELOW COST, we're not making any money by doing that, we're just trying to get customers to shop with us.

So please, you MAY have a bad experience at the Wal-Mart near you. But rest assured it's not like that everywhere.

And please, please, when you all say these mean things about the company I love, and work so hard at, it hurts my feelings, and makes me feel like where I work is the slum of the earth. It makes me feel ashamed that I work for Wal-Mart. It makes me feel like white trash. And nobody should make someone feel that way about themselves. No one deserves that.

Our cheer that the ASSOCIATES have written:

Who is Number 1? The Customer, Always
What store is Number 1? 5-4-1-1
We're Havin' Fun & Gittin It Done!

Beth S.
Ionia, MI










Beth,

I am glad that you enjoy your job. Really. I do. However it is foolish and dangerous to equate love of your job with love of your employer Wal-Mart. Their business practices from monopolizing the retail industry, to its willful and malicious employment misconduct, to its continued push to lower wages and benefits, not to mention outsourcing and browbeating manufacturers into price points barely able to sustain said business, is in a nutshell, DISGUSTING. I aks that you do a little research on your employer before jumping in so quickly to defend them.
The "chant" that the associates came up with....nah, the associates didn't make that one up....corporate did in a transparent attempt at "unification" and "team building". Seems rather cult like to me.
And FTR, I have 2 family members who work for Wally World. One actively interviewing to get the h*** out and one who is as clueless as the majority of your co-workers are. Sunday dinner at my house is a riot.









DC


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## Amys1st

Beth - glad things work out for you. Your "team" should change the song to Were having fun and getting brainwashed.

The 1 cent lower than cost will go back and haunt the supplier who sold that to Walmart. Walmart will turn around and demand a lower price on that product or drop them all together.


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## ophelia2002

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BethLS* 
I am certainly appaled that everyone has such a bad experience with Wal-Mart. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE come to Ionia Michigan!

And we have a planned parenthood here in Ionia (a VERY small town) and several more in the bigger towns. (Lansing and Grand Rapids)

I know first hand, cuz I've gotten BC there before when I couldn't afford it. (when I wasn't working at Wally-World)


I used to live in kalamazoo, mi. i never saw a pp in all my travels in the state (including ionia, GR, battle creek, lansing, etc.) and every walmart i went into was dirty. i took my business to meijer









nak.


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## cfiddlinmama

8 month recovering Wal-Mart addict here!







I've always hated it, but didn't see how I could go anywhere else, being poor. I've since found lots of ways!

I just wanted to address the point that the people in China should just leave if they don't like it. It isn't that easy. First off China is a COMMUNIST country and has insane amounts of control over their population. It is extremely hard to leave the country (unless you have lots of money.) Also, a lot of the people are SLAVES and couldn't leave if they tried, or they are CHILDREN. It isn't like the US where you are free to leave if you want to. I personally have huge issues supporting a country that treats their people so horribly and a corporation who doesn't care.


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## Amys1st

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cfiddlinmama* 
I just wanted to address the point that the people in China should just leave if they don't like it. It isn't that easy. First off China is a COMMUNIST country and has insane amounts of control over their population. It is extremely hard to leave the country (unless you have lots of money.) Also, a lot of the people are SLAVES and couldn't leave if they tried, or they are CHILDREN. It isn't like the US where you are free to leave if you want to. I personally have huge issues supporting a country that treats their people so horribly and a corporation who doesn't care.









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## nikisager

My favorite reason for not shopping at Walmart? They suck green boogers.hehehehe







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## ophelia2002

For another interesting look into WalMart, read Nickle and Dimed- a journalist goes "undercover" as a WalMart employee (among other low paying jobs).


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## swimswamswum

bumpity, bump, bump!


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## amyleigh33

I really enjoyed reading what everyone had to say on this post, and have little to add to the debate as I think a lot of the points about Wal-Mart have been covered and those which haven't can be easily researched Online or by reading one of the books mentioned, or watching "The High Cost..."

One thing that really got to me was, well a lot of what Beth said but especially the "business is business" part. And to that I just wanted to echo the pp sentiment that the reason that people work to expose and hopefully change these unethical business practices, is because they have a sense of MORALITY and ETHICS and perhaps even go so far as to experiencing EMPATHY with the enslaved people of the Global South.

The next part of my post is simply to illustrate that you can live without supporting Wal-Mart or other places that employ unethical business practices:

Since I turned 17 years old and was financially independent, supported myself and made my own consumer choices --
Number of purchases I have made at Wal-Mart - 0
Number of purchases I have made at similar stores i.e. Zellers - approximately 10 (however some products US or Can. made)
Number of consumer items that I've purchased in the past 5 years that have been manufactured in 3rd World Countries - less than 10
Reason for buying 3rd World Products - temporary insane cessation in ability to make ethical choices when faced with something (usually a clothing item) that I really want cause it's "cool"
Number of cups of non-Fair Trade Coffee consumed - less than 10

And I think a common thought is that you have to be rich or something to be able to only buy Fair Trade or local or whatever, but I have always either been a student or making minimum wage and still managed just fine. And with baby #1 on its way, and I am still a student, I still have no intentions of changing my shopping habits. I've already worked out a few different plans to ensure this.

You don't HAVE to shop at Wal-Mart. And you shouldn't. Arghhhhhhh...







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## Mackenzie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amyleigh33* 
I really enjoyed reading what everyone had to say on this post, and have little to add to the debate as I think a lot of the points about Wal-Mart have been covered and those which haven't can be easily researched Online or by reading one of the books mentioned, or watching "The High Cost..."

One thing that really got to me was, well a lot of what Beth said but especially the "business is business" part. And to that I just wanted to echo the pp sentiment that the reason that people work to expose and hopefully change these unethical business practices, is because they have a sense of MORALITY and ETHICS and perhaps even go so far as to experiencing EMPATHY with the enslaved people of the Global South.

The next part of my post is simply to illustrate that you can live without supporting Wal-Mart or other places that employ unethical business practices:

Since I turned 17 years old and was financially independent, supported myself and made my own consumer choices --
Number of purchases I have made at Wal-Mart - 0
Number of purchases I have made at similar stores i.e. Zellers - approximately 10 (however some products US or Can. made)
Number of consumer items that I've purchased in the past 5 years that have been manufactured in 3rd World Countries - less than 10
Reason for buying 3rd World Products - temporary insane cessation in ability to make ethical choices when faced with something (usually a clothing item) that I really want cause it's "cool"
Number of cups of non-Fair Trade Coffee consumed - less than 10

And I think a common thought is that you have to be rich or something to be able to only buy Fair Trade or local or whatever, but I have always either been a student or making minimum wage and still managed just fine. And with baby #1 on its way, and I am still a student, I still have no intentions of changing my shopping habits. I've already worked out a few different plans to ensure this.

You don't HAVE to shop at Wal-Mart. And you shouldn't. Arghhhhhhh...







:


Amen Sister! You are one of my peeps!!


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## finiansmom

I'd like to repeat where someone posted that 53% of Walmart employees have taxpayer-paid health insurance and add my own experience.
My fiancee works for Walmart. He just had to go back to their bottom of the line insurance (from a HMO). He couldn't afford to pay the co-pay with the HMO anyway because of how little of the premium they paid. So he's back to "only covers emergencies" type of insurance (which doesn't cover any preventative health care) and we're waiting to get married until he gets a better job (we're waiting on possibilities at Dow Corning or Family Video) before we get married because we couldn't afford even the bottom of the line insurance if my son and myself were added to it. Believe me, my fiancee is desperately trying to get a better job. The way he's treated at Walmart is horrible. He didn't *choose* to work at Walmart so much as he chose to have any job and Walmart was the only one he could get. He has better than 20 years of retail sales experience, much of it in management, but Walmart made him a dairy stocker.
Once he gets a job somewhere else, I will never ever step foot in a Walmart again, no matter how tight our finances might be.

love & light
Joelle


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## greenwoman2006

I just posted this in another thread where someone asked what was wrong with Walmart.

Off the top of my head:

They manufacture in factories in Saipan (a US territory), that basically enslaves women, and there is factual evidence of forced abortions going on there. Tom Delay made sure to protect Walmart and other corporations manufacturing there.

Walmart has helped to virtually destroy unions in this country. As soon as employees try to unionize, they shut down that store.

They have used illegal immigrants as cheap labor, sometimes not paying them at all, and mistreating them by doing things like locking them in the store overnight (a cleaning crew, for instance) so that they don't steal anything.

They put all other businesses out of business. Not just mom-and-pop stores (not many of those left!), but Toys 'R Us is on the brink thanks to Walmart. K-mart is another. They keep prices low until the competition is gone, then raise them as high as they like because there is no longer any competition.

They destroy the environment, despite their claims to be trying to make amends for turning our country (and others) into a big parking lot.

I could go on and on. They are the epitome of the CORPORATION to me. They do not care about people, at all. They lie. And Steve Walton (CEO I believe) is reportedly a very very good personal friend of George W. Bush.

Nuff sed.


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## GoddessKristie

I'm pretty middle of the road about this subject. I just wanted to bring up some ideas that havent' been expressed yet.

I've seen so much anti-Wal-Mart the past few years, I'm wondering if someone will open an alternative store that only sells American made goods. If they do does everyone know they'll have to pay more for those goods? Would you all be willing to pay more?

The US has THE higest standard of living in the world, we also have the most money. So, while it's sad to see one man lose his job making $15/hour (a living wage here) I'm torn when I think that he's being replace by 30 people in China making $.50/hour (a living wage there). While that sounds like a horrible wage here, maybe that's not such a horrible wage there since everything is obviously MUCH cheaper and they have a lower standard of living (that's their business and I have no right to tell them what living conditions are "acceptable"). So, if one American can put food on his table vs 30 Chinese I wonder what is better. (of course if you don't care about China that makes it easier-I do)

Minimum wage in America is $5.15. That's pretty damn low and I don't know anyone who could survive on that amount. So, while 8, might not be much better (I couldn't survive on that either-maybe I could learn something from China), it's pretty far above minimum wage. I honestly don't feel like I can fault Wal-mart for paying low wages when those wages are 55.34% higher than what our government says we need. You'd be hard pressed to find wages better than walmart in the service industry. Everyone pays crappy wages for unskilled labor not just Wal-Mart. I have applied for jobs at other stores and know that they are all within $.20 of Wal-Mart's wage-Meijer, Kohls, BP Gas stations, Gas America, Sears, Target, etc.
If we want standard wages to go up Wal-Mart is not where we begin, it's our local congressman.

One more thing about China...
Things are really bad over there with all the over population and they're pretty desperate for jobs. The most recent numbers I could find (through multiple sources I googled) were for early 2006 and they said that the REGISTERED unemployment rate is 5% IN URBAN areas. If we assume that goes accross the board and everyone is registered that equates to 65,000,000 people.
From what I've found on the US our unemployment rate is around 5.5% and that equates to 16,000,000. That's one quarter of the number of unemployed people in China. Is it so wrong to send jobs their way?
Here is an article about the average wage in China. Here is an article about the cost of living in China. This is the best I could find about the cost of living in China and I doubt these people have any slant.
To sum it up the first says that average wage in China including benefits for someone in a factory is around $.64. The second says "The cost of living in China is between one tenth to one quarter that of Australia, North America and Europe. You can buy a fresh healthy cooked meal in China for less than US$1.50. A local breakfast will cost you under US$1!

The vast majority of China's population are peasants. An average wage in China is around 400 to 800 RMB per month, with which people feed and house their family and often extended family."
For reference the RMB exchange rate is currently 8.77:1 which means thier average wage is $45.61-91.22US/month. $.64/hour would give them $102.4/month. Sounds like a pretty good wage! It's certainly well above average.
(If you can find more current info please share it).

Like I said I'm neutral on this subject. I see points for both sides, but I don't shop at Wal-Mart often. I prefer Target but not because I'm taking a political stand, I just like it better. Just wanted to share some more info!


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## Amys1st

GoddessKristie said:


> I'm pretty middle of the road about this subject. I just wanted to bring up some ideas that havent' been expressed yet.
> 
> I've seen so much anti-Wal-Mart the past few years, I'm wondering if someone will open an alternative store that only sells American made goods. If they do does everyone know they'll have to pay more for those goods? Would you all be willing to pay more?
> QUOTE]
> 
> Yes I already do my best to buy things made in the usa or counties that are not similar to china. Yes its more money just like my fair trade coffee, tea, and chocolate and my organic goods. Well worth it IMO. It maybe more, and we have less things because of it-which is a great thing.


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## Mackenzie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
I'm pretty middle of the road about this subject. I just wanted to bring up some ideas that havent' been expressed yet.

I've seen so much anti-Wal-Mart the past few years, I'm wondering if someone will open an alternative store that only sells American made goods. If they do does everyone know they'll have to pay more for those goods? Would you all be willing to pay more?

The US has THE higest standard of living in the world, we also have the most money. So, while it's sad to see one man lose his job making $15/hour (a living wage here) I'm torn when I think that he's being replace by 30 people in China making $.50/hour (a living wage there). While that sounds like a horrible wage here, maybe that's not such a horrible wage there since everything is obviously MUCH cheaper and they have a lower standard of living (that's their business and I have no right to tell them what living conditions are "acceptable"). So, if one American can put food on his table vs 30 Chinese I wonder what is better. (of course if you don't care about China that makes it easier-I do)

Minimum wage in America is $5.15. That's pretty damn low and I don't know anyone who could survive on that amount. So, while 8, might not be much better (I couldn't survive on that either-maybe I could learn something from China), it's pretty far above minimum wage. I honestly don't feel like I can fault Wal-mart for paying low wages when those wages are 55.34% higher than what our government says we need. You'd be hard pressed to find wages better than walmart in the service industry. Everyone pays crappy wages for unskilled labor not just Wal-Mart. I have applied for jobs at other stores and know that they are all within $.20 of Wal-Mart's wage-Meijer, Kohls, BP Gas stations, Gas America, Sears, Target, etc.
If we want standard wages to go up Wal-Mart is not where we begin, it's our local congressman.

One more thing about China...
Things are really bad over there with all the over population and they're pretty desperate for jobs. The most recent numbers I could find (through multiple sources I googled) were for early 2006 and they said that the REGISTERED unemployment rate is 5% IN URBAN areas. If we assume that goes accross the board and everyone is registered that equates to 65,000,000 people.
From what I've found on the US our unemployment rate is around 5.5% and that equates to 16,000,000. That's one quarter of the number of unemployed people in China. Is it so wrong to send jobs their way?
Here is an article about the average wage in China. Here is an article about the cost of living in China. This is the best I could find about the cost of living in China and I doubt these people have any slant.
To sum it up the first says that average wage in China including benefits for someone in a factory is around $.64. The second says "The cost of living in China is between one tenth to one quarter that of Australia, North America and Europe. You can buy a fresh healthy cooked meal in China for less than US$1.50. A local breakfast will cost you under US$1!

The vast majority of China's population are peasants. An average wage in China is around 400 to 800 RMB per month, with which people feed and house their family and often extended family."
For reference the RMB exchange rate is currently 8.77:1 which means thier average wage is $45.61-91.22US/month. $.64/hour would give them $102.4/month. Sounds like a pretty good wage! It's certainly well above average.
(If you can find more current info please share it).

Like I said I'm neutral on this subject. I see points for both sides, but I don't shop at Wal-Mart often. I prefer Target but not because I'm taking a political stand, I just like it better. Just wanted to share some more info!

I don't have much time right now but I will say that you are misunderstanding fair trade. Fair Trade does not mean that the worker is paid what OUR living wage is, or even our minimum wage because that is an astronomical sum in undeveloped countries. Fair Trade means that the worker is paid a living wage in their local context (if a living wage in India {because people seem to be stuck on China, it is NOT just China people!!} is 20 rupee per hour {I have no idea if that is accurate, as I do not know the rupee exchange rate} the then they are paid 20 rupee or greater per hour). Worker in a FREE trade market ARE NOT PAID A LIVING WAGE IN ANY CONTEXT. It is not ok to perpetuate the system because the worker from the under developed nation HAS a job. WE AS AMERICANS ARE NOT THAT DAMN INPORTANT JUST BY VIRTUE OF LIVING IN THE RICHEST (and greediest) NATION IN THE WORLD. The people enslaved by FREE trade are not making living wages in safe environments. We need to stop trying ways to spin it so that we don't feel so friggin guilty, we need to actually DO something.


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## MamasBoys

My name is Rachael and I've been Walmart free for several months now! We live in a small town where Walmart is the only "superstore", or even clothing retailer within an hour's drive. I didn't understand what all the hooplah was about until we watched the Walmart High Cost/Low Price documentary. We thought it would be impossible to avoid Walmart, but we've figured out the kinks now. I was most appalled by the section of the documentary about the chinese workers. I was also very concerned about the fact that when a Walmart opens, it's given $$ by the government that could have been put into our schools. That is jacked up!!! We also are a union family, so shopping at Walmart is a huge no-no.


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## fotomama

Haven't had time to read through all the posts in response to OP, but thought I'd pass on these two reasons NOT to shop at Wal-Mart.










1. Organics.... ha. Ha. Ha. The organic situation is not all Wal-Mart would like its consumers to think. Common sense about the incredible demand (quantity) Wal-Mart puts on its suppliers should lead consumers to question whether organic standards are really a priority (or logistic option) for the stores' suppliers. I've done a little research on this subject, for an article in the Asheville-based New Life Journal. Check it out here: http://www.newlifejournal.com/Aug05/ray.shtml

2. RFID. Wal-Mart has demanded that (at least) its top 100 suppliers "chip" the products on Wal-Mart shelves with radio frequency identification. This is a virtual can o' worms, that will eventually allow Wal-Mart to track everything each customer purchases. Not unlike Kroger, CVS, Ingles, etc. with their customer-price keychain cards, but that's another subject, and so far, is an option for customers, rather than a requirement. Wal-Mart suppliers (like Georgia-Pacific, Gillette and other huge companies) will comply with the RFID requirements - but this won't just effect Wal-Mart customers. Why? Because why on earth would they just mark products supplied to Wal-Mart? They wouldn't. They will mark all manufactured products, going to all stores. Target, grocery stores, even Ma and Pop type stores (until they are put out of business, of course). Google RFID and Wal-Mart and you'll get over a million hits. Hmmm.... Stepping off my box now.

Wal-Mart didn't make it in Germany... Make America next, and spend your money elsewhere. Co-ops, natural foods stores, online (MDC seems to have a wealth of people who sell AMAZING products), barter. Options are out there; it's just a matter of finding them.

To the OP - good for you for thinking about it!


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## faithinrosie223

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whateverdidiwants* 
Out of curiosity, where do you live that you have PPs as plentiful (and easy to get to) as Wal-Marts?

There is one about 15 minutes away from my house, and i live in small town Washington state (eastern/central). In northern Idaho, and montana there are also Planned parenthoods scattered all over. Probably the same driving distance as walmart. There are also three different pharmacies that dispense emergency contraception that are actually closer to my home than walmart is. The local welfare office also has a planned parenthood who will dispense them as well. No not every pharmacy carries it, and they are not required to, also not every medical provider will write a prescription for it (my midwife included). All you have to do is call the 800 number, and they will give you a list of pharmacies that dispense it. They even have an emergency number for after hours. Here you can walk into a planned parenthood, request emergency contraception, they give it to you without a prescripion, and ususally they ask for a donation, but it does not cost anything to obtain. If you cant offord a donation then you dont have to pay one. Also, you dont have to drive around to find a pharmacy like someone suggested. Just use the telephone. In the 5 surrounding cities in my area, all of them have a planned parenthood or ec dispensing pharmacy within 15 minutes, and where public transportation is available to transport those who have no vehicle. Condoms are also available in both planned parenthood offices in my area for free as is birth control to the poor. Maybe it isnt like this for everyone, but if it is like this in bumble**** Washington, if a planned parenthood is about as close as a walmart in bumble**** montana and Idaho, then I just dont believe other areas are as bad off as people say they are. Pharmacists should have the right to chose what they sell, just as any other person does. How would all of you feel if the government started requring you to sell vaccines in your stores?? It goes againsed what you believe right?? They should have the same right to practice on their beliefs just like you do. Regardless of whether you believe it is right or not. That is what America is all about. Unless you want to ruin those rights that we all cherish so much by forcing pharmacists to carry prescriptions, then you should be ready for the government to mandate you to vaccinate your children.


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## nicolelynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amyleigh33* 

Since I turned 17 years old and was financially independent, supported myself and made my own consumer choices --
Number of purchases I have made at Wal-Mart - 0
Number of purchases I have made at similar stores i.e. Zellers - approximately 10 (however some products US or Can. made)
Number of consumer items that I've purchased in the past 5 years that have been manufactured in 3rd World Countries - less than 10
Reason for buying 3rd World Products - temporary insane cessation in ability to make ethical choices when faced with something (usually a clothing item) that I really want cause it's "cool"
Number of cups of non-Fair Trade Coffee consumed - less than 10


Can I just say that I admire you? Dh and I have been Wal-Mart free for a year, but we still do Target as "the lesser of two evils..". And I do do fair-trade coffee.

However, I mostly feel like a hypocrite and overwhelmed with everything. A year ago Dh and I went to Old Navy and Dh was literally like "I FEEL awful being in here" and we left and never went back. But I realized later that week when shopping at an expensive clothing retailer that everything was made in China. Just because things cost more don't mean they are any better than Wal-Mart or Old Navy.

The other thing is the big focus seems to be on clothing and coffee which are doable. My problem is also electronics and appliances...everything is made in China where factory workers are paid multiple times less than the managers of their companies from Hong Kong.

So my question for you is HOW do you do it? Any tips and resources? If this is OT you can PM me.

Thanks! I'm trying....I really am! I think I'm gonna order dh the Hel-Mart shirt...he will pee his pants







.


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## Pinoikoi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flipfish* 
I worked at WM for three years in college. I'm very glad it was my first job because I was too ignorant to see just how horrible it is.

A few years later while shopping at a WM I saw the store manager yell at an employee, then stand over him and belittle him. This was IN FRONT OF ME - A CUSTOMER. I called 1-800-Walmart over that one, but of course nothing was done.

I do not shop at WM anymore.

I could have written this about me, except insert "Zales" wherever you put WM.. and the employee being belittled was me..







:


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## impchild

Quote:


Originally Posted by *faithinrosie223* 
c Pharmacists should have the right to chose what they sell, just as any other person does. How would all of you feel if the government started requring you to sell vaccines in your stores?? It goes againsed what you believe right?? They should have the same right to practice on their beliefs just like you do. Regardless of whether you believe it is right or not. That is what America is all about. Unless you want to ruin those rights that we all cherish so much by forcing pharmacists to carry prescriptions, then you should be ready for the government to mandate you to vaccinate your children.

I am pro-choice. In every sense of the word. If the person choses it (and it is not hurting anyone) they should be able to do it/get it/have it. I want to be a midwife, but I currently work in a hospital on the peds and ob floors. When I do become a midwife it will be about giving the woman the birth SHE wants not what I think is best. THat said I DO NOT think pharmisists should have the right to refuse to fill a perscription. It is not about the pharmisists morals. They knew when they started training that they would have to fill perscriptions for HBC. If they didn't like that they should have left the field then. In my opinion it is violating the rights of women when a pharmisist refuses to sell anything.

and to fit the original thread.... I haven't shopped at walmart in years. something that I have not seen mentioned for their censorship is they refuse to sell Maxim magazine because the women are too scantily clothed. Yet I see much more scantily clad women in Vogue or Instyle. Apparently it is ok for women to look at naked women but not for men to... but they better not be having homosexual thoughs *sarcasm*


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## KarenEMT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolelynn* 
Thanks! I'm trying....I really am! I think I'm gonna order dh the Hel-Mart shirt...he will pee his pants







.

My mom and I wore the Hel-Mart shirts to all the public meetings about Wal-Mart here (and our pic was in the newspaper) - I think our local area has about 100 people running around wearing them now....you should definitely get one for your DH


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## intorainbowz

I live in Utah. There are 2 Sams clubs 15 minutes each way. Within 15 minutes, there are 4 Wal-Mart superstores, one going in, and at least 3 Wal-Mart grocery stores (I'm sure there are more.)

Within that same area there are 2 large malls, 2 Targets, 1 Costco (another one 20 Minutes away), 1 Kohls, 2 Shopkos, 1 Babys R Us (Toys R Us Closed),
2 Olive Gardens, 2 Chilies, 2 Applebees, 2 PetCo, 2 Pets Marts. Get the picture?

My MIL works at Wal-Mart, and even though she hates her boss, she is WAY bought into the Wal-Mart party line. I can't say anything bad about Wal-Mart. At Thanksgiving she had a couple of her co-workers over as well and I almost had to bite my tounge. I try to go Wal-Mart free then end up back in there.


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## moonmama22

_I am an hourly associate. I have dental/health insurance, LTD, STD, and life insurance. I pay 78$ a month for it all, but it's worth it, and cheap as far as insurance goes._

Wow - I work for a small, private, non-profit human services agency, and pay almost double that a month for basic insurance!! And I thought I had good insurance.

Please don't feel insulted or like "white trash". I am feeling like that also just for shopping there on occasion! And I am not sticking my head in the sand. I understand the issues, and I also am not foolish enough to think that everywhere else I shop is perfect, or positively contributing to the world. As someone else said, Target does not have a great record either, and I do a lot of my shopping here.

Interestingly, I have had many of my special needs students get jobs at Walmart and McD's, but Target has never given them the time of day, nor have many smaller businesses. So in a way I feel somewhat less guilty about running errands there.


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## dallaschildren

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonmama22* 
Interestingly, I have had many of my special needs students get jobs at Walmart and McD's, but Target has never given them the time of day, nor have many smaller businesses. So in a way I feel somewhat less guilty about running errands there.

Wally world and mc d's prey on those who think they don't have any other options. They take advantage of the very people they employ. They can pay folks pennies and get away with it. And so it perpetuates the cycle lining only their pockets while driving their employees deeper into poverty.
It isn't interesting. Interesting is a science experiment. If you shop there, you are culpable. If you sit silent, you are responsible. (you's are general) Wally world isn't doing anyone a favor.

DC


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## *clementine*

The clothes fall apart, the toys suck and break, the cleaning products smell bad......and you spend a ton of money on stupid shit you wish you wouldn't have put in your cart-that ends up just getting lost in your house of stuff you bought the last time you went to Walmart.....you come home with NOTHING. There's no quality.....there's no point.


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## RolliePollie

So my ILs ALWAYS complain about how they have no commercial retail on their side of town and how they hate driving out of the way to go to Walmart and other such places. I make a polite suggestion stating that maybe they would have more retail on their side of town if they started supporting the local businesses that were already there. They looked at me as if I have several heads.


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## MomToSusannah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alaskanteach* 
I could have written this about me, except insert "Zales" wherever you put WM.. and the employee being belittled was me..







:

My cousin worked for Zales and has a million stories just like that one. Ask her about their diamonds and she'll jump right up on her soapbox.









As for Wal-Mart, I never shopped there until college because I grew up on Long Island and there just weren't any Wal-Marts. (I know there's one now in Islandia, but that's the only one I'm aware of.) I live in NC now and it's Wal-Mart country down here.

I had heard bad things about them before and have shopped there less and less each year, but this thread really has opened my eyes. We normally only shop there if we need to buy a ton of groceries, but I could save just as much money if I started clipping coupons. I've been choosing Target over Wal-Mart a lot more often though I know that they're not squeaky clean either.

As for the comment about people in China working for Wal-Mart, made by the MI Wal-Mart employee...implying that there is some sort of choice on the part of China's citizens is one of the more ridiculous things I've heard in my life. Choice is a luxury that is totally taken advantage of in our country. Citizens of communist countries, unfortunately, do not have that luxury and to imply that they do just continues to perpetuate the stereotype of Americans taking everything for granted and being blind to global issues.


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