# Are those leashes/harnesses for kids demeaning?



## Gentle~Mommy :) (Apr 21, 2009)

My sister is giving me a hard time, it looks like I am walking a dog when my little guy wears his.

We have been practicing with it around the house because we are going to the zoo next weekend and he keeps running away from us out in pubic







so I want to use it at the zoo to keep him safe. He hates the stroller and his baby brother will be in the stroller anyway.

He loves the harness, it is like a monkey and I hold the tail part.









My sister says it's demeaning to have my child on a leash and will harm him emotionally.







:

Is that true?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Only if the child feels it is. But for a lot of children, they get what they want - a bit more freedom to wander - and the parents get what they want - safety. The only two people who get a vote are the parent and the child involved. If either of them don't like it, it's a no-go, but if they both like it, then yay!


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## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

As long as your child is okay with it, I don't see the problem. At least a leash gives more room for movement than a stroller. The only way I think that would cause emotional abuse would be if the child was forced to wear it under protest and/or was old enough to be embarrassed by it. Of the children I've seen wearing a leash, they've all been of the 2 and under crowd, which pretty much means they will have no memory of the event since memory doesn't usually start until closer to 3.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Not demeaning.
It keeps your child safe. Who cares what other people think, as long as your child is safe?
My 2 year old hates the stroller. He throws himself sideways to get out of it, making it not such a safe option. He doesn't want to be in a carrier anymore, and is really too heavy for me to carry for long anymore anyway. He doesn't want to be held in arms all the time, not that such a thing is much of an option. He yanks his hand out of mine to run every chance he gets. We've found that a harness is the best option. He asks for his "backpack" and makes sure I'm holding my end of it. It seems to make him feel more secure, while also giving him some freedom. That doesn't sound like a child who's being emotionally harmed, IMO.


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## Gentle~Mommy :) (Apr 21, 2009)

She said people will 'bark' at him at the zoo, and I would just die, really I would.

Please tell me that won't happen.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I don't think so, unless as people have said it's wildly age-inappropriate or something. It's funny how our culture works: strollers are not demeaning, car seatbelts are not demeaning, being required to hold hands is not demeaning, but leashes look like dogs, or something.

For me I'm a huge fan. At about 14 months - close to two, my son had the understanding about stop and stuff (we played a lot of red light, green light), but not the impulse control to be reliable about it.

I felt that holding hands with him all the time as a control mechanism (not just crossing the street, but to prevent dashes) was uncomfortable for him (put your arm above your head for 5 minutes) and unnecessarily restrictive in some places, like along a sidewalk where it wasn't crowded/busy or at the zoo. I didn't want to have to stick him in the stroller all the time.

I noticed that with the leash he could explore with both hands at his level, bend down to look at ants and things -- and I could relax that he was safe & not going to get separated so as to support the exploration rather than hovering nervously.

We still had plenty of park time, and walking together without the harness time. It was a bonus for certain situations. He's coming onto 4 now and walks fine, holds hands crossing the street, etc.

If he had hated it, I would have probably rethought it a bit but he didn't at all.


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## Gentle~Mommy :) (Apr 21, 2009)

He loves it at home, and he looks adorable in it. He wanted to wear it to bed last night!

My sister is such a pain sometimes, I think she does these things to sabatage my happiness.









Now she has me all worried that people will be looking at us, or saying things, or barking at my little boy.


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## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gentle~Mommy * 
She said people will 'bark' at him at the zoo, and I would just die, really I would.

Please tell me that won't happen.


At our zoo there are tons of young kids in harnesses. In fact, the zoo even rents them out. They look like monkey backpacks with a leash.


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## jitterBug mom (Aug 26, 2008)

I also think they are fine as long as the kid likes it. I have seen the ones like you describe with the little tails, and I think those look even less like "dog leashes."

I will say I have heard other people complain about kid leashes - so I don't think your sister is alone in her feelings. But most of the people I've heard say that sort of thing don't have kids themselves (and wouldn't say it to your face anyway), so I wouldn't worry about it.

No, I don't think anyone will be barking, and if they did, they'd just be making themselves look foolish!


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## soccermama (Jul 2, 2008)

Looks like I'm going to be the black sheep here, but I personally don't like them. DS has never used one. Whenever we've gone to some place like the Zoo, we've used a lightweight stroller (like an umbrella stroller) and that's it. If DS wants to get up and walk around, we let him know that he must hold our hand.

I don't necessarily find them demeaning, they just look uncomfortable for the child.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I held DD's hand, or wore her (usually the latter), so we never owned one. I do have German friends who were just over staying (i'm in the UK) and they were HORRIFIED to see a baby on a lead, like really really shocked when they saw i, then silent for about 20 minutes while they processed it. So for some people it does bring up big issues i guess.

I personally don't like them because i remember reading about an abuse case where a mom had run the lead loop under the cot mattress and basically tied her little boy into bed that way. *shudder* bad association obviously does NOT equal that they are inherently harmful, just that some people see them as such. If he loves it and you love it why even consult the sister?


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## Biscuits & Gravy (Jul 17, 2008)

If you and your child are comfortable and happy with it, and it keeps your child safe then I see no harm. It is the misuse of them that I have a problem with. I've seen parents use them like a leash, snapping the child back to them instead of gently guiding them. That is demeaning.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Biscuits & Gravy* 
If you and your child are comfortable and happy with it, and it keeps your child safe then I see no harm. It is the misuse of them that I have a problem with. I've seen parents use them like a leash, snapping the child back to them instead of gently guiding them. That is demeaning.

I've seen a lot of people yank their kids around by their arms too.


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## kis95 (Aug 13, 2008)

We have the backpack-type harnesses (a dog and a monkey) and I have not once heard anyone 'bark' at us. If they did, I think I might just bark back! Other posters are correct; you'll probably see lots of the backpack 'leashes' at the zoo, and other large, spacious, crowded places. My daughter didn't mind hers (she's almost five now, and she still plays with it in the house) and my middle son didn't complain about his either. Neither one uses them now (too old), and my youngest son (just turned two) does so well holding hands while walking, I feel like he's safe without it. Regardless, before he learned how to walk without running off, I was all set to get it out again for any day trips. As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather keep my kids safe and close, while giving them a chance to 'explore' on their own at a comfortable distance from me.

FWIW, I was born in the early 70s (okay...more like 69







) and back then they used those leather harnesses. I had one, and as far as I know, I didn't suffer any emotional damage from it!


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
I held DD's hand, or wore her (usually the latter), so we never owned one. I do have German friends who were just over staying (i'm in the UK) and they were HORRIFIED to see a baby on a lead, like really really shocked when they saw i, then silent for about 20 minutes while they processed it. So for some people it does bring up big issues i guess.

I personally don't like them because i remember reading about an abuse case where a mom had run the lead loop under the cot mattress and basically tied her little boy into bed that way. *shudder* bad association obviously does NOT equal that they are inherently harmful, just that some people see them as such. If he loves it and you love it why even consult the sister?

I was tied into bed with a really pretty pink ribbon around my ankle. I really think people need to get over these associations because people who do abuse will use whatever they can -the associations mean nothing as far as reality goes.


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## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

I NMY but I think I would say to sis, "Gee, whatever emotional scars I cause by having my kid wear a monkey backpack that he loves I'm sure is far less than the emotional trauma of getting lost." Then I would change the conversation, point having been made, and be over it. Don't give this issue power. It isn't worth it.









Jenne


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

My mom used a harness with me, and I have no recollection of it (I was born in '71).

I tried to use one on my older DS when we were travelling, and he would have no part of it.

My way of thinking is that we put dogs on leashes to keep them safe. Why it is demeaning to do the same thing for your child?

I'll tell you what....sometimes when I was trying to cross a busy parking lot while pushing the carriage with DS2 sitting inside it, holding DS1's hand was a bit difficult. It's easy to hold hands when you have nothing else to carry and only one child. Of course, that means the child can't use his hands to explore while he's out.

If I used a harness and someone barked at me, I'd make donkey or pig noises back at them.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soccermama* 
Looks like I'm going to be the black sheep here, but I personally don't like them. DS has never used one. Whenever we've gone to some place like the Zoo, we've used a lightweight stroller (like an umbrella stroller) and that's it. If DS wants to get up and walk around, we let him know that he must hold our hand.

I don't necessarily find them demeaning, they just look uncomfortable for the child.


I agree and have never thought about using one-- with four kids. But, if it works for another family, and the the toddler doesn't mind, then who am I to say it's not appropriate. If you are comfortable with it, don't worry about what other people think.

I do think, personally, it looks funny







Just cause I saw a little girl with one on her back last weekend and the dad was seriously jerking her around, the opposite way she appeared to want to go. She clearly was not liking it.


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## skueppers (Mar 30, 2005)

I think it's funny that most people don't think twice about confining their kids to a stroller, preventing them from having any control over their own movements, but think it's horrible for a child to have the freedom of walking around on their own with a harness.

That said, I don't own one myself, despite having a "dasher." I've certainly thought about it.


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## bluey (Apr 28, 2004)

My grandma and I were just talking about this! She used one with my mom when she was small. Mom was a runner apparently and she was very small (still is!) she didn't fuss about having her backpack on though. Fwiw mom is not scarred by it. The reason it came up, is because right now I'm housebound due to my wild babe







She runs. And runs and runs and runs. Laughing maniacally the whole time. She's my 3rd so I always thought she would be like her sisters who listened, could stick within eyesight etc etc. That's not the case though. She'll grow out of it, but it really sucks right now







(oh and she fights the stroller like it's on fire)

So if I was taking her to the zoo? She'd have herself a monkey "backpack" and I wouldn't care who stared.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skueppers* 
I think it's funny that most people don't think twice about confining their kids to a stroller, preventing them from having any control over their own movements, but think it's horrible for a child to have the freedom of walking around on their own with a harness.

That, too.


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## Raene (Jul 24, 2008)

I don't like them, and I have judged other parents many times for using them, but I did once use one when I had my toddler in a busy airport and we had to run to catch our 2nd flight. So yes, hypocritical all the way.

But I will also say I can't stand strollers and kids in strollers...I think if you have to use one, that leashes are better b/c at least the child is getting some exercise. Strollers just seem so wrong...I see all of these really energetic parents with their kids in strollers and wonder how that is teaching the kid that exercise is important and fun.

I'd probably go for a sling at this point. I couldn't do that the last time (in the airport) because I had to carry a convertible car seat with me and couldn't have had her in a sling too, but if you can sling, I'd go for that.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Given the choice between stroller, sling, hand holding, and harness, DD would choose the harness. She wanted to move those little legs, and hand holding hurts after a while. Also if she decided she was going to go, she would yank and wrench her hand away from us and I was always afraid she would dislocate her elbow or something, she was that determined to get away. At least with the harness she had less of a chance of injuring herself. She would also scream and thrash in the sling or the stroller if she got to that point.

I wonder how many people who never used one and would never consider it had screaming thrashing runners? Did you ever try to push a flimsy umbrella stroller with a kid flailing every which way, or try to keep one from tossing themself out of the sling upside down? (nevermind the weird looks, I'm sure I did wonders for the normalization of babywearing those days)


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skueppers* 
I think it's funny that most people don't think twice about confining their kids to a stroller, preventing them from having any control over their own movements, but think it's horrible for a child to have the freedom of walking around on their own with a harness.

That said, I don't own one myself, despite having a "dasher." I've certainly thought about it.


I totally agree with this-- except that I did have and use a harness and found it very usefull for a certain period of my child's toddlerhood.

My response to anyone who gave me crap was "My kid is up and walking. Yours is strapped with a 5-point harness to an inanimate object with wheels. Which of these things is more demeaning?"

Or it would have been. No one ever gave me crap. I got a few "second looks" but mostly I got "Oh, wow, I really like that, where did you get it?"

(A followup, to bring home the point, woudl be "Why don't you just get a hockey mask for him and do the full Hannibal Lecter?")

Seriously. We strap kids with 5-point harnesses into strollers until they're 5 years old in the name of "control" and "safety" and that is somehow better than letting them up and walk around and explore their world with a safety line on? Get real!!!


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## Quinalla (May 23, 2005)

It is totally a safety thing and as long as the parent and child are both cool with it, there is no problem. Sure, the first time I saw them I thought it was a little weird, but then when I thought about it with some of my young cousins that were "darters" (would dart away FAST with no warning) I could definitely see why they would have them. And yes, it is exactly the same as strapping a kid into a stroller or having them hold your hand.

Also, I have never heard anyone make a comment about them to a parent or kid with one in zoos or parks or whatever. Your sister is just being difficult IMO!


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## bmcneal (Nov 12, 2006)

DD likes the stroller. I don't think she would like the harness thing, and I don't personally think I would like it (as she's a dasher and sometimes darts under and around things I can't, she'd get tangled up.) Usually, though, depending on where we are, she just walks, and either holds my or DH hand, walks close to us, or holds onto something like the cart shopping or the stroller if we have the stroller.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

you know, it's a good point about strollers being more restrictive. We haven't used one since we went to FL last August and our youngest was 18 mos. He just doesn't like to be in one, and I don't see the need. BUT he does very much enjoy being worn on my back. Which is obviously confining and probably looks cruel to well-meaning people to see a 30 lb 2 yo stuck to my body. If he didn't like the carrier, and I was in a situation that would be dangerous for him to run off (ie a busy public place, me alone with four children) then I guess I could see the need for a harness. I just haven't been in that situation. Luckily, if we are say at the grocery store and I forget a carrier, he will happily sit in the seat of the shopping cart. Otherwise, he would wander off quickly.

Something I just thought of is that when I worked in a Montessori school with toddlers, we took them out on a walk daily. We used a long rope for the children to hold on to w/one adult at each end. In Montessori, which stresses independence, we surely were not going to put toddlers who were physically capable of walking into wagons or strollers. But we had to find a way to keep them safe and all together as we were walking around busy neighborhoods. The only difference I see with a rope and a harness is the strapped on aspect which does make it look more leash-ish.


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## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

nak- didn't read all the replies, but DD1 had a monkey backpack! She loved it (still wears it around the house, lol)
Anyway, we got nothing but positive comments and smiles when we used it (airport, town festivals, busy places w/ lots of people and dangerous roads, etc)

In fact, some little old ladies were staring and whispering and I thought "oh no, here it comes







" BUT the ladies just gushed and oooh-ed at the "monkey on her back" and tyhey wished they had one for their kids


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Yeah but you can't trust an 18-month-old to not let go of the rope and run off in the busy airport, for instance. And what difference does it make if it looks leash-ish, or if they're also used for dogs? Fences are put up for both children and dogs and it doesn't make them demeaning for children. The fact that they're useful for both doesn't make them bad.

Some children like to be down, moving around. Slings won't help for them any more than strollers.

And holding them by the hand is just as restrictive, if not more so. There's more room for movement with a harness.

The "it looks like something for a dog" argument is really just irrational. The fact that dogs use harnesses is completely irrelevant as far as whether they're good or bad for children.


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

All I can say, is that if people use leashes to keep pets safe, of course it's ok to use one in a situation that requires keeping your child safe. Not demeaning. It's smart. Children are way more important than pets.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Yeah but you can't trust an 18-month-old to not let go of the rope and run off in the busy airport, for instance. And what difference does it make if it looks leash-ish, or if they're also used for dogs? Fences are put up for both children and dogs and it doesn't make them demeaning for children. The fact that they're useful for both doesn't make them bad.


Oh, I wasn't suggesting parents use a rope instead. I was just thinking the concept was very similar. We would have 8 toddlers (from 14 mos-30 mos) on the rope with me at the front and my assistant at the end. It always took a day or two for new children to figure it out. They would let go and try to run off and we would stop walking and gently help them hold on again before we started moving. They caught on quickly that they could not run off until we were at the grassy area of the park.

I don't think harnesses are demeaning if both child and parent are comfortable. I just said I don't like how it looks. But that's obviously MY issue and shouldn't matter to anyone who is happy using one. Just as I get crazy looks for wearing my 2 yo in an ergo, I'm sure others think it looks really mean to not let him run around or at least sit back and relax in a stroller







ya know?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Ok, sorry - I misunderstood.


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## momasana (Aug 24, 2007)

There is a good chance that some people at the zoo will give you praise and smiles, and others will give you the stink-eye and say unkind things. I've discovered that's pretty much the case about every parenting decision anyone has ever made since the dawn of time.

As long as the choice is made respectfully and with unselfish motives it's all good. If your child enjoys it and it gives her the freedom and safety needed to have a good time, then go for it.


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## jacki1234 (Nov 15, 2008)

My oldest was a bolter. She bolted away from us all the time. This was 22 years ago when no one used them. We used a wrist one and it worked great. I had many many people give us dirty looks and sometimes say mean things to us. We always said it was better to have her safe then to please others. Didn't stop them saying things but it settled our nerves. Do what is right for your family.


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## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

My kids think they're hilarious and willingly wear them. I'd much rather be judged for keeping my kids safe than have something bad happen to them. How is it any different from forcing them to hold hands?


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## jwoodbri (Aug 26, 2008)

Ummm I'm guessing your sister does not have kids?? We have a little puppy backpack/harness which is rarely used but we do use it on occasion. The zoo seems like a good place to use one as long as your child likes it which sounds like is the case. I know my youngest loves to run and usually refuses to hold hands but loves to wear the puppy backpack. Don't worry about others; they wouldn't have to deal with the panic that comes with a lost child.

Another idea that we used in Disney World was having the kids wear wrist bands that had our contact info in it. My older son really liked his.


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## tammyswanson (Feb 19, 2007)

No way! If you child is a runner, and wants to take off, the harnesses are safer for them. Plus think about it, it's a lot harder for them to run off and then get abducted by someone in public. People just don't get it, if your kid would run off and get hurt or worse, isn't that more horrible than them wearing a harness?


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soccermama* 

I don't necessarily find them demeaning, they just look uncomfortable for the child.

Actually, for our dd, holding our hand was uncomfortable because her hand was up so high over her head!

This is dd in her leash (no monkey backpack, it's a leash) at Yellowstone. I got lots of positive comments about it and no negative ones.

The leash gave her the freedom to walk (which she demanded!), and us the comfort of knowing that she wouldn't walk off into something dangerous. We only used it in big crowds (airports, Yellowstone), when they were in the awful under 3-can't stop-what-I've-started phase of dashing off.


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## vegancat (Mar 24, 2009)

I don't see any problem with a leash either. She gets to run around, you keep your sanity - you both win. And to the pp above who said they'd bark back - you took the words out of my mouth!

As for strollers, I wear DD a lot but there are times when my back just won't take it and we use the buggy. I've made it as comfy as possible with a thick fleece and she seems to enjoy being in there with her toys. I think the key thing is not to ignore babies when they're in the buggy, especially if they're facing forward, and to get down on your knees and take a look at what they see. I'm sure busy shopping centres can be overwhelming from that point of view.


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## nukedwifey (Sep 22, 2008)

We've only used them once... when we went to the Grand Canyon. My youngest niece had this thing about running away from us or sneaking off when you weren't looking and we (my whole family, mom, sister, etc) were all in agreement that we had horrible visions of her going over the edge. She is also, has been since birth, fearless and not scared of heights or edges. There was no way we were going to keep her in a stroller the whole time we were there. She would never allow it! My other niece wanted one because at the time she was going through a phase were she would pretend she WAS a dog and being on a leash was even better!







She went through an entire store once panting and barking and only responding to Rover. Yeah, she has a serious imagination. But anyway, no one barked at us! The only person who said anything meant it to be not heard by us but I heard it anyway. Super hearing. It was an older lady and she was there with a bunch of other older people, probably a bus tour and she said, "oh, the shame, such a beautiful little girl on a leash. How demeaning." And I turned to her and said "Would you prefer a beautiful little girl go over the edge of the Grand Canyon?" I rolled my eyes and walked away. People need to keep their opinions to themselves until they know the whole story.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gentle~Mommy * 

My sister says it's demeaning to have my child on a leash and will harm him emotionally.







:

Is that true?

of course not! this is certainly a reasonable way to keep up with your son if it works for you guys.

i'm lucky that, at least as of today







, mine is not a runner. if she were, i'd put a "leash" on her for sure! she's the kind of kid who i can take out of her car seat in a parking lot and ask her to stand by me while i grab our bag. i know lots of kids are not this way...


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gentle~Mommy * 
She said people will 'bark' at him at the zoo, and I would just die, really I would.

Please tell me that won't happen.

I seriously doubt any one would. BUT FWIW your son might







I once had my DD harnessed in her beloved puppy harness in an airport (I was VERY thankful to have it) and DD crawled on all fours and barked her way through security







.
AS for is it demeaning no it just a way to help keep a child safe but also allow some freedom. We used one when we needed our DD to literly hold our hand for long periods of time a harness was a lot kinder than having her hold her arm in the air for hours on end. DD used to wear hers just casue even if no one was holding hte "tail".

Deanna


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

I'd probably go for a sling at this point. I couldn't do that the last time (in the airport) because I had to carry a convertible car seat with me and couldn't have had her in a sling too, but if you can sling, I'd go for that.
I kinda find it intresting that you despie say a stroller for freedom and lack of excerise reasons but then promote a sling.







BTW I loved my sling I couldn't sling for more than a few mintues past the infant age but just found the comprison intresting.

Deanna


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

I don't care if parents use leashes - none of my business. But what does bother me are:

Leashes that are very long, and parents let the kid cut in front of my family and me or my kids get clotheslined by it

Leashes that are long and parents don't pick up the slack so other people end up tripping on it.

Parents who use the leash to tug, drag, or otherwise control the direction the child is going

Parents who think that since their kid is on a leash, they don't have to pay any attention to what he's actually doing (like in one case I observed at a campsite, where the carefully leashed child was stuffing leaves and sticks in his mouth while his mother chatted away, completely oblivious).


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## Gentle~Mommy :) (Apr 21, 2009)

ha ha, I just noticed my son's harness is a lemur not a monkey!

Thanks everyone for your opinions I feel much better now. My sister undermines everything thing I do and causes me grief, I really felt she was off base on the barking thing.


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## mamarootoo (Sep 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Raene* 
But I will also say I can't stand strollers and kids in strollers...I think if you have to use one, that leashes are better b/c at least the child is getting some exercise. Strollers just seem so wrong...*I see all of these really energetic parents with their kids in strollers and wonder how that is teaching the kid that exercise is important and fun.*

(bolding mine)
little legs can't walk as far as really energetic parent legs.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gentle~Mommy * 
My sister is giving me a hard time, it looks like I am walking a dog when my little guy wears his.

We have been practicing with it around the house because we are going to the zoo next weekend and he keeps running away from us out in pubic







so I want to use it at the zoo to keep him safe. He hates the stroller and his baby brother will be in the stroller anyway.

He loves the harness, it is like a monkey and I hold the tail part.









My sister says it's demeaning to have my child on a leash and will harm him emotionally.







:

Is that true?


Your sister needs to mind her own business and stop spouting her opinions as fact.

Some people don't like them. That is fine. I understand. But, I have never seen any concrete evidence that using a leash/harness will harm a child. Also, I really get pissed when people make snide remarks about how we who have used them must not teach our children to hold our hands. What an _interesting_ assumption.

Of course, they can be used in the wrong manner, but so can slings, car seats, high chairs, play yards, strollers, etc.

To me it was a safety net, not a babysitter, and certainly it did not take the place of my watchful eye. It was a tool.

It was a lifesaver when my middle child was younger. He has Autism and hated to hold hands and was a bit large for the stroller. So, I bought a blue harness/leash (his favorite color) and used it when we went out. He was strong enough to wrench his hand out of mine, way too easily. He was happy as a clam, because he got to walk and explore.

No one ever said a bad word against me when we used it. If they had, I probably would have told that person to mind their own business and butt out.


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## kirstenb (Oct 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamarootoo* 
(bolding mine)
little legs can't walk as far as really energetic parent legs.











We spent the whole day at the zoo last weekend and there is no way DS would have lasted if we didn't have the stroller to put him in when he got tired of walking. At almost 2 he hates to be worn- he would much rather be in the stroller when he gets tired.

As for leashes, I bought a monkey backpack last month when I flew with DS and am so glad I had it. I was by myself with all our bags and the carseat and it was such a relief not to have to worry about DS taking off. He loved wearing it too.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

My 7yo was begging for me to rent a stroller so he could relax when we went to Disneyland last year. I offered to sit and rest, but he wanted to keep moving, but his legs were just beat.

Anyhow, I've never used a leash but have no issues with them being used kindly, just like anything else. Someone barking at you while your kid was on a leash would be tantamount to them mooing at you while you were nursing - it means the person is an a*hole who isn't worth acknowledging.


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## Gentle~Mommy :) (Apr 21, 2009)

I've been nursing for 3 1/2 years, almost 18 months tandeming, I moo at myself sometimes !!


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## Amberoxy (Dec 20, 2007)

It seems like all the different means of toddler locomotion have their place. It really depends on what the toddler likes. My son lately hates to be worn, he likes the stroller. It is a Bob stroller and he goes "Bob Bob!" when he wants to go for a ride. If wants out of the stroller, we take him out. If he does want to, "ride around on top of mommy" we use a carrier. If he wants to walk on his own, and it is safe to do so, he walks on his own...if not, we carry him in arms. Now that I know about these backpack things, I think I want one!!! Does anyone know where I can get one??? It will be another choise to offer my toddle and I think the more choises, the bettter!!!


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## verde (Feb 11, 2007)

I think leashes are wonderful. 1 1/2 years ago, DH, DD and I flew to Europe and the leash was a godsend. In the London airports many people had their toddlers on leashes. When we were in the Geneva airport I didn't see many at all but I did see a lot of surprised and amused looks. When we went through the metal detector, the security guard pulled me aside and told me what a wonderful idea she thought it was and she was surprised more people in the airport didn't use them.

I agree with Tinkerbelle, tell your sister to mind her own business.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I see plenty of those at the Children's Museum and plenty of unhappy kids and have yet to see an unhappy kid wearing one.








Today I saw 3 toddlers riding on their siblings' strollers like they were on horses. Strollers with hoods and each one had a 3-4 year old straddling hood and sitting on the handle.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gentle~Mommy * 
My sister says it's demeaning to have my child on a leash and will harm him emotionally.







:

Is that true?

Well, if your sister is right, I should be emotionally harmed, and so should almost all the people of my age who grew up in the UK. I _loved_my harness - I still remember it now. It was red leather with a cute little pony on the front. I have very fond memories of it.









And if your sister is right, I"ve damaged all my kids too.

I wonder how emotionally damaging it is, in her opinion, to stick kids in boxes on wheels and push them around, treating them like shopping carts...........


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gentle~Mommy * 
ha ha, I just noticed my son's harness is a lemur not a monkey!

Where did you get it? Dh and I have a running joke about lemurs and would love one.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momasana* 
There is a good chance that some people at the zoo will give you praise and smiles, and others will give you the stink-eye and say unkind things. I've discovered that's pretty much the case about every parenting decision anyone has ever made since the dawn of time.

.

I used a harness for all three of my kids. In all that time, I had two sarcastic comments or looks, and _hundreds_ of positive ones. So don't expect to get flack from onlookers - you are fare more likely to have people stop you to ask where you got the harness, and talk to you about what a great idea they are.


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## KJoslyn78 (Jun 3, 2007)

Our Zoo sells them in the gift shop, with a monkey or some other animal on it as a small backpack

I needed to use a harness with dd2 - she was (and sometimes still is) completely wilk and wouldnt think twice to run off.. in parking lots, shops, into the road. Until i had her i was hardcore AGAINST the use of them.. then i realized when i needed one for her it became a serious safety issue... and the harm comes in how the parent uses it (such as tugging harshly to get a child to follow - i HATE seeing that!). I always held her hand and the "leash" was more of a "backup" to her running off

i hope your trip to the zoo goes well!


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## chekhovgirl (Jun 11, 2005)

I don't like the idea of them, even though DS runs away from us. He wouldn't stand for it, though, and it seems like your little guy likes it. I can see if they're really young and you need it for safety in a public place, but I was taking DS on the subway last week and there was a mom that had her child that could have been no younger than 4 years old on a "leash". I think that's a bit extreme. She must have thought I was crazy to have my two year old standing next to me not even holding my hand on the platform.

This is not aimed at you, it's just a funny story- whenever I think of these "leashes" I think about how we were told that one of these things was used with my FIL's youngest brother and they would walk down to the beach and then tie him to the pier so he wouldn't go anywhere. I think they also tied him into the crib!! Now, using it in that fashion would be inappropriate! Again, not saying you would do that, I just find it so weird to think people used to do that!

MIL bought us one of the "backpack" looking things that had an animal and a leash, but I returned it because I knew we wouldn't use it. Do whatever works for you, though!


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## Freefromitall (Sep 15, 2008)

No, I don't think they are demeaning. I think they are a safety tool.


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## Labyrinth (Apr 14, 2008)

Chris has taken off on me and his mom at the zoo a couple times, one of the scariest things ever! Now he's too old for them, but I wish I would have had one when he was younger. I cannot stand strollers, and have a big thing about kids over 2 walking unless there's a delay or disability or it's a child's nap time.

I have never used a harness, but I would have no problem with it. I will probably have one when I have a child. What I do, now, is hold on to the back of a regular style backpack or hoodie to keep track of them when they don't want to hold hands. They're pretty good about holding hands, though







.

Oh, and the best time to go to the zoo is right when it opens- much smaller crowds.


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## Astrogirl (Oct 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skueppers* 
I think it's funny that most people don't think twice about confining their kids to a stroller, preventing them from having any control over their own movements, but think it's horrible for a child to have the freedom of walking around on their own with a harness.

*YEAH THAT.*

Our kids lives are FULL of "containment" devices. Cribs with bars (aka "jail"







), pack n plays, strollers.....I don't see a harness as being any different.

Personally, I think being left alone in the dark in a crib to cry and not know where anyone is or if they are ever coming back is far more damaging than going to the zoo and having a tether to keep you close to mommy.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gentle~Mommy * 
She said people will 'bark' at him at the zoo, and I would just die, really I would.

Please tell me that won't happen.

If someone barks say "Oh what a nice puppy." or "Owe what a naughty puppy. You need to go home to be better trained." or "Lets leave I don't like barking mutts."

I don't think it will happen. Even if it does ignore it.

I got a few dirty looks. I used a maya wrap. I had one person say something to me actually more to my oldest dd. I looked at her and told her she was a "[email protected]#$# and that just didn't hear a d#$# word she said".


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## geiamama (Feb 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gentle~Mommy * 
She said people will 'bark' at him at the zoo, and I would just die, really I would.

Please tell me that won't happen.

Good lord no. No-one will even bat an eyelid. It sounds to me like your sister is just trying to use guilt and shame to get you to do what she wants. She's also obviously clutching at straws too since she has to come up with such a ridiculous statement!


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## geiamama (Feb 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum* 
I _loved_my harness - I still remember it now. It was red leather with a cute little pony on the front. I have very fond memories of it.









Mine were white leather with a little puppy on the front and I loved mine too.

Mine were used by my grandmother on all her children in the fifties then passed down to my mother to use with all her children, then on to my uncle when he had his children and finally on to me when I had my children. Each child cried when we were told we were too old to use them anymore and they had to be passed on to the next little one! Now I grant you we're not exactly a normal family but I don't think it was the fault of the reins!


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## serenekitten (Nov 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gentle~Mommy * 
My sister says it's demeaning to have my child on a leash and will harm him emotionally.







:

I'll admit to having emotional issues, but I strongly doubt that they're because Mom used a harness on me.







I don't even remember being out in public and wearing it; I remember seeing it in a drawer long after I was too big to wear it.

I think she was as equally concerned about me running off as she was of someone snatching me at the mall.

I keep eyeing the backpack harnesses at Target. You can only get a lion one on-line, so it's on my registry.


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## KJoslyn78 (Jun 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chekhovgirl* 
I don't like the idea of them, even though DS runs away from us. He wouldn't stand for it, though, and it seems like your little guy likes it. I can see if they're really young and you need it for safety in a public place, but I was taking DS on the subway last week and *there was a mom that had her child that could have been no younger than 4 years old on a "leash". I think that's a bit extreme.* She must have thought I was crazy to have my two year old standing next to me not even holding my hand on the platform.

i had to use my "leash" with my 3 yr old (who looked more like 5, she easily passed for a school age child when we would visit her sister for lunch) and so you can't assume how old she is... you also can't assume you know the temperament of the child. My dd2 had/has numerous emotional/behavioral issues, and using a leash until she physically outgrew it was best/safe for her. There are times NOW (at almost 6) where i may at least have it handy, depending on her day and where we are, and what we are doing.

My oldest, on the other hand - i could have anywhere, anytime and only needed to hold my hand, and that was more cause she liked be connected to me, then needing my guidance.


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## MonAmiBella (Sep 30, 2007)

I used on with my now 12 year old, he didn't like it and figured out how to free himself from it in a matter of minutes. He has no lasting problems from it, I don't find him attaching himself to the dogs leash and barking at other dogs.









We have the monkey backpack one and a dog backpack one from Target (I just saw they have a pink puppy one, I'm going to have to order it!) and my 4 year old LOVES it. It has a pocket for her to store her sunglasses and when she's feeling a bit superheroish she tries to fly with it on. I have found her and her sister wearing them and pretending to be puppies while leading each other around the house, but it seems to be a game they've both decided to play so I'm not too concerned.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

I have not read the replies...and I may not be one of the few that say that the harness...in some cases is a positive thing.

My daughter has SPD (sensory issues) she will bolt without warning, and when she was three WOULD NOT hold my hand.

I bought a monkey backpack/harness.

Instead of being confined to indoor playareas, or inside our house...

We were free to walk the boardwalk, go to the mall, go to the park.

It did not cage her...it freed her..and made it safe.

She loved her monkey backpack.

Now...at 4.5 she is better out in public and she has a 2 year old sister that has never worn a harness....she is much better in public places.

A safe, happy child is the key!


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## justthinkn (Apr 11, 2008)

I didn't have time to read all responses, but I'm definitely on the side of, if it gives the child more freedom (and the child likes it, as my DD loves her monkey who gives her "hugs!") and the parents more security, go for it.

I would also say, that I try not to use the tail like a leash, but as a safety backup. I still try to guide DD by hand - it feels more gentle and respectful to me - and have asked DH to do so as well.


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## Daphneduck (Jan 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
I don't care if parents use leashes - none of my business. But what does bother me are:

Leashes that are very long, and parents let the kid cut in front of my family and me or my kids get clotheslined by it

Leashes that are long and parents don't pick up the slack so other people end up tripping on it.

Parents who use the leash to tug, drag, or otherwise control the direction the child is going

Parents who think that since their kid is on a leash, they don't have to pay any attention to what he's actually doing (like in one case I observed at a campsite, where the carefully leashed child was stuffing leaves and sticks in his mouth while his mother chatted away, completely oblivious).

I've never seen any of this happening with a child on a leash, not once. I have however had to dodge, and have even tripped over, a child/children running around uncontrollably while their exhausted parents begged them to stop. I've seen parents stand by idly while their unharnessed children, ate leaves, climbed lamp posts and generally made a nuisance of themselves. Anything can be inappropriately used, even handholding.
We love our monkey backpack. It allows DD more Independence and more importantly, it allows DD to _feel_ more independent.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamarootoo* 
(bolding mine)
little legs can't walk as far as really energetic parent legs.

I don't know what this poster was trying to say by this comment, but it is what I have been thinking the whole time I have been reading this thread.

I have a high-spirited 16mo dd and when we were last at the zoo I did not notice anyone with their child on a leash and neither was she.
She did run ahead, she did get excited, but I expect all of that as the mother of a toddler. My legs are longer than hers so logically I should be able to keep up with her. I could concede that if you have other children then that _might_ introduce other variables that I don't always have to deal with, although I have taken several children to the zoo sans leashes with great success.
I am surprised that the general consensus seems to be pro-leash, but at the very least I'm glad most of you realize that it needs to be at the approval of the child!

I have always thought leashes did look demeaning and that has not changed since I have become a mother myself. I personally would never consider a leash and I don't even feel comfortable saying, "to each their own". I was at a parade recently where I saw a 3ish year old on a leash and it just looks _wrong._ If I were at the zoo and saw a child on a leash, especially with a mother that had no other kids with her, I would think it was lazy. I am just trying to be honest here, perfectly expecting to be flamed, but I ha to present the other side. So, flame away!

And I would love to know how parents exsisted before the introduction of the leash? Or is that a piece of history that time has forgotten?


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## Daphneduck (Jan 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 

I have always thought leashes did look demeaning and that has not changed since I have become a mother myself. I personally would never consider a leash and I don't even feel comfortable saying, "to each their own". I was at a parade recently where I saw a 3ish year old on a leash and it just looks _wrong._ If I were at the zoo and saw a child on a leash, especially with a mother that had no other kids with her, I would think it was lazy. I am just trying to be honest here, perfectly expecting to be flamed, but I ha to present the other side. So, flame away!

And I would love to know how parents existed before the introduction of the leash? Or is that a piece of history that time has forgotten?

I'll try not to flame, though your viewpoint is one that I cant wrap my brain around. It seems pretty judgmental. I am far from lazy and with one child, I use it often. Sometimes you just have to look beyond your own experience. Maybe you would use one if you were feeling lazy, but numerous valid reasons for using one have been posted. I have been at the zoo and seen numerous leashes, in addition to my DD's.
In response to your question, yes they have been around, in one form or another, for a long, long time. My grandmother used one and my mother used one on me and I'm 40 years old.

Eta
I have a chronic health condition. There are times when I simply cannot run after DD. You never know why someone might be using one.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daphneduck* 
I'll try not to flame, though your viewpoint is one that I cant wrap my brain around. It seems pretty judgmental. I am far from lazy and with one child, I use it often. Sometimes you just have to look beyond your own experience. Maybe you would use one if you were feeling lazy, but numerous valid reasons for using one have been posted. I have been at the zoo and seen numerous leashes, in addition to my DD's.
In response to your question, yes they have been around, in one form or another, for a long, long time. My grandmother used one and my mother used one on me and I'm 40 years old.

Eta
I have a chronic health condition. There are times when I simply cannot run after DD. You never know why someone might be using one.

Your right about them having been around for a long time, and in various forms from strings tied to the wrist to harnesses made from ribbons or leather and accounts of such things back as far as the 17th century, though I wouldn't be surprised if they were used earlier.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

How it looks is really irrelevant. What matters is whether it improves a child's experience or not. IMO, it seems to give children more freedom of movement and more safety. Obviously if a child doesn't like it, it doesn't improve their experience. But it isn't demeaning no matter how it looks if no one is demeaned.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
I don't know what this poster was trying to say by this comment, but it is what I have been thinking the whole time I have been reading this thread.

I have a high-spirited 16mo dd and when we were last at the zoo I did not notice anyone with their child on a leash and neither was she.
She did run ahead, she did get excited, but I expect all of that as the mother of a toddler. My legs are longer than hers so logically I should be able to keep up with her. I could concede that if you have other children then that _might_ introduce other variables that I don't always have to deal with, although I have taken several children to the zoo sans leashes with great success.
I am surprised that the general consensus seems to be pro-leash, but at the very least I'm glad most of you realize that it needs to be at the approval of the child!

I have always thought leashes did look demeaning and that has not changed since I have become a mother myself. I personally would never consider a leash and I don't even feel comfortable saying, "to each their own". I was at a parade recently where I saw a 3ish year old on a leash and it just looks _wrong._ If I were at the zoo and saw a child on a leash, especially with a mother that had no other kids with her, I would think it was lazy. I am just trying to be honest here, perfectly expecting to be flamed, but I ha to present the other side. So, flame away!

And I would love to know how parents exsisted before the introduction of the leash? Or is that a piece of history that time has forgotten?


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daphneduck* 
I've never seen any of this happening with a child on a leash, not once. I have however had to dodge, and have even tripped over, a child/children running around uncontrollably while their exhausted parents begged them to stop. I've seen parents stand by idly while their unharnessed children, ate leaves, climbed lamp posts and generally made a nuisance of themselves. Anything can be inappropriately used, even handholding.
We love our monkey backpack. It allows DD more Independence and more importantly, it allows DD to _feel_ more independent.

Well I had every one of those things happen to me at Disney World.

Hey, I could not care less if you, or anyone else, uses a leash. I only care when it affects me, like when I slam face first into the pavement on Main Street because I tripped over a child leash that was way too long.

I didn't say EVERY parent who uses a leash does this or that, or that parents who don't use leashes do this or don't do that.

I've been slammed in the heels by strollers before too, and if this thread were about strollers, I'd give that example of rude stroller use.


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## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
I
And I would love to know how parents exsisted before the introduction of the leash? Or is that a piece of history that time has forgotten?

There is an expression about "cutting the apron strings" when a child grows older and becomes more independent. I've always taken that to mean that the apron strings were used as leashes, so I think the practice goes back further in history than you might think.

My grandmother used a leash to keep toddlers from wandering into danger on their farm in the thirties - 5 kids under age 7, her husband traveling to find work, and the chores needed doing, what alternative did she have? She told me her mother did the same thing, so leash use goes back at least a century, I'd say.

There were far fewer dangers from running into traffic before the car was invented, too, so less need for a leash as we use it today. And the invention of the car also gave us the ability to go to zoos regularly with children. And the population was a lot lower before the 20th century, so fewer crowded venues to lose children in. Probably also, people who had the money to travel for leisure hired staff to care for children.


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## Daphneduck (Jan 22, 2009)

oops


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## Daphneduck (Jan 22, 2009)

Quote:

Well I had every one of those things happen to me at Disney World.

Wow, what are the odds of having so many bad leash experiences in one day?
I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. I know that I've had days when unharnessed kids constantly seemed to be tripping me up, so I feel for you.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

I don't always think judgement is without warrant.

I have personally never ever known _anyone_ who used a leash on their child in my whole entire life. No one in my family ever used one, none of my friends ever used one on their children and I think if you asked anyone I have ever know why they didn't use one it would probably be because they never needed one.
I also do not come from a family of people who used strollers to corral their kids. My mom never used a stroller and never had one and my Grandma did have one but told me it would be a waste to buy one because kids don't really need them and you can just carry them until they can walk.
Listening to the moms on here it would seem a miracle that I, my siblings or my aunts uncles and parents came out of childhood alive and unscathed without the use of a leash!

I can honestly count on my hand the number of times I have seen a child on a leash and I have lived in 8 states and on 2 different continents and then Hawaii. I don't understand how I have missed this phenomenon of the leash being so popular?


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## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

I've been restraining myself since yesterday, but I just gotta sub, now. I can't stay away from leash threads on MDC. It is a character flaw, I think.







:


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

I don't like them for my _own_ family. They are not for us. I worked a lot with my son (without force or coercion) on the matter so I could avoid the use of them. I saw it as more beneftial to _all_ of our family in the long run (just like how I showed my son how to get safely up and down the stairs on his own when he was physically capable without the need of stairgates). I have also never used any other means to contain him (such as strapping him in a pushchair/sling/etc) - so no hypocritical contradictions here!








I really don't care if other people use them though. I only do wince a bit and breifly think about it when I see them used in a way that I feel is wrong (I have seen them used pretty harshly on a child) - I also do wonder how much people have tried other approaches before resorting to such a device (I was breifly tempted myself but it just seem wrong for _our_ family)...but I am also smart enough (and growing father and farther away from naive) to know that not all people use them that way and that many people use them simply as a safety thing and that 'working with' a child is not always that easy without such a device (multiples/close spacing). For us, this was (one in a million of them of course!) a reason we waited to have more children though. Its about trust for us and trying to live consensually so having a small spacing would not have been practical (in regards to this topic alone) - and of course I can't control wether or not an accident happens or the possiblity of multiples - it didn't happen that way for us and the way we have done things has worked out just great.


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## SparklingGemini (Jan 3, 2008)

I think child leashes are awful. Yes, awful.

I would never, ever put my child on a leash.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Astrogirl* 

Our kids lives are FULL of "containment" devices. Cribs with bars (aka "jail"







), pack n plays, strollers.....I don't see a harness as being any different.


There's a difference if you don't confine your child.

Out of those things you listed we only use a stroller and even then, DD is not buckled in and allowed to get out and roam at will. We use it for when she gets tired, not to confine her.

What I don't get is how we can teach children to be autonomous, to listen, to maintain a sense of freedom and still understand safety, if we are leashing them.

IMO there are ways around these so-called safety devices AND in a way, then lend themselves to a false sense of security for the parents.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I had an only child and didn't need one either. There were always two adults to keep track of her. And the next one will have two adults and an older child to keep track of her.

But let's be real here. There's an age where, if you don't have the ability to keep track of them to that extent, a child is either holding a hand, in a stroller, in a sling, or in a harness. They have to be kept close in some way. Also, my child was a clinger, not a runner. It was pretty easy to keep track of her because she wanted to stay by my side all the time. But what about those parents with a few small children, one or more of whom are bolters?

No, it isn't ALWAYS wrong to be judgmental, but it very often is.


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## SparklingGemini (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I had an only child and didn't need one either. There were always two adults to keep track of her. And the next one will have two adults and an older child to keep track of her.

But let's be real here. There's an age where, if you don't have the ability to keep track of them to that extent, a child is either holding a hand, in a stroller, in a sling, or in a harness. They have to be kept close in some way. Also, my child was a clinger, not a runner. It was pretty easy to keep track of her because she wanted to stay by my side all the time. But what about those parents with a few small children, one or more of whom are bolters?

No, it isn't ALWAYS wrong to be judgmental, but it very often is.


I used to nanny. For five kids.

We went places, did things, were in crowds and I never ever used a leash.

Was it always easy? No.

Did I have to work hard with the kids? Yes.

Were they confined in a stroller, harness, sling etc.? Never.

Was one or two of them a runner? Absolutely.

I still never used a leash.







:


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## azmomtoone (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 

But let's be real here. There's an age where, if you don't have the ability to keep track of them to that extent, a child is either holding a hand, in a stroller, in a sling, or in a harness. They have to be kept close in some way. Also, my child was a clinger, not a runner. It was pretty easy to keep track of her because she wanted to stay by my side all the time. But what about those parents with a few small children, one or more of whom are bolters?


ITA, there is an age that they need to be kept track of. MY DS was (and is) a "bolter" - we literally go run laps around the mall just to let him "get it out" before grocery shopping now.
When he was just around 14 -15 mos old though, he refused to hold a hand (if I tried to "make" him he'd lay down on the ground). So options were to put him in a stroller or carrier, or let him run wild, or get a harness. To me, the harness is similiar to a stroller or sling....except that the harness lets a kid explore & get some exercise.

I don't understand why it's ok to use a stroller - ie, harness them into a sitting position - but not to put them in a harness that lets them walk, at the same age, if the kid prefers walking/running. Never will understand it.

In our case, once DS got old enough to understand holding our hand in parking lots and staying in sight at the stores (which includes us running with him at times, or swinging him others if DH & I are both there), we stopped using the harness. I still have it though, and wouldn't hesitate to use it if we were in a very crowded place, such as an amusement park.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daphneduck* 
Wow, what are the odds of having so many bad leash experiences in one day?
I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. I know that I've had days when unharnessed kids constantly seemed to be tripping me up, so I feel for you.

They didn't all happen on the same day - I go to Disney World a lot!

And leashes are very popular at the parks; I see them all the time.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
I don't know what this poster was trying to say by this comment, but it is what I have been thinking the whole time I have been reading this thread.

I have a high-spirited 16mo dd and when we were last at the zoo I did not notice anyone with their child on a leash and neither was she.
She did run ahead, she did get excited, but I expect all of that as the mother of a toddler. My legs are longer than hers so logically I should be able to keep up with her. I could concede that if you have other children then that _might_ introduce other variables that I don't always have to deal with, although I have taken several children to the zoo sans leashes with great success.
I am surprised that the general consensus seems to be pro-leash, but at the very least I'm glad most of you realize that it needs to be at the approval of the child!

I have always thought leashes did look demeaning and that has not changed since I have become a mother myself. I personally would never consider a leash and I don't even feel comfortable saying, "to each their own". I was at a parade recently where I saw a 3ish year old on a leash and it just looks _wrong._ If I were at the zoo and saw a child on a leash, especially with a mother that had no other kids with her, I would think it was lazy. I am just trying to be honest here, perfectly expecting to be flamed, but I ha to present the other side. So, flame away!

And I would love to know how parents exsisted before the introduction of the leash? Or is that a piece of history that time has forgotten?

Well, my son was a climber and a dasher. More to the point, he has total focus (even now) - when something grabs his interest, he almost can't hear. Even if you're yelling "ice cream."







He's just that kind of kid.

At our zoo, anyway, when we would go there would be a lot of school groups of sort of grade 4-6 and it helped a lot to not have him dash into a group of kids that way. We also have indoor parts to our zoo (pavillions) where there are a lot of good hiding spots that he adored dashing into.

On busy sidewalks in say, the Beaches area of our town, where the sidewalk is not extra-wide, there are lots of people, and parked cars and cars on the road, it was really a lifesaver. My son went through a period of hating the Ergo, the sling, and the stroller (unless he was worn out) and I really was glad to not have to make the choice of having one of us unhappy. He explored so many neat things with both hands - windows, pipes, bricks, planters.

For me anyway, the leash offered me the security of being able to enjoy his exploration. I know I posted already but I can't emphasize that enough. We were in situations where he was pretty safe, but I personally would have worried without that extra tie.

When I see a parent saying to their child "no! No! This way! Hold my hand! Right now! Don't go there!" as a constant litany, and the child is pretty young to follow directions, I often think that it's a little sad that they are spending so much energy on it at certain ages... but to each his own.


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## Daphneduck (Jan 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
They didn't all happen on the same day - I go to Disney World a lot!


In that case, I'm very jealous!


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklingGemini* 

I used to nanny. For five kids.

We went places, did things, were in crowds and I never ever used a leash.

Was it always easy? No.

Did I have to work hard with the kids? Yes.

Were they confined in a stroller, harness, sling etc.? Never.

Was one or two of them a runner? Absolutely.

I still never used a leash.







:


Why'd you make it so hard on yourself?


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## SparklingGemini (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Why'd you make it so hard on yourself?



















Thanks for making me check myself and giving me an ounce of humor!

Really, I did it because I couldn't and cannot stand the thought of children on leashes. It seems so counterintuitive to how children should be raised.

It was worth it to me to instill independence, understanding and respect with those kids and now, with my own.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklingGemini* 

It was worth it to me to instill independence, understanding and respect with those kids and now, with my own.


I dare say that the rest of us are also instilling independence, understanding, and respect in our kids. Perhaps we simply have children with different personalities than the ones you have encountered.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklingGemini* 

I used to nanny. For five kids.

We went places, did things, were in crowds and I never ever used a leash.

Was it always easy? No.

Did I have to work hard with the kids? Yes.

Were they confined in a stroller, harness, sling etc.? Never.

Was one or two of them a runner? Absolutely.

I still never used a leash.







:

No, but I bet you were holding someone by the hand, which is every bit as restrictive. Actually, even more restrictive.


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## SparklingGemini (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
I dare say that the rest of us are also instilling independence, understanding, and respect in our kids. Perhaps we simply have children with different personalities than the ones you have encountered.

How is tethering your child to your arm instilling independence? Truly?

I mean no harm, I just don't understand this mentality.

I think that if you(general)take a stand on a parenting choice, such as breastfeeding, cosleeping, no leashing, homeschooling, etc. than you make it work regardless of the "different personalities" a child has and the challenges facing you.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklingGemini* 
How is tethering your child to your arm instilling independence? Truly?

I mean no harm, I just don't understand this mentality.

I think that if you(general)take a stand on a parenting choice, such as breastfeeding, cosleeping, no leashing, homeschooling, etc. than you make it work regardless of the "different personalities" a child has and the challenges facing you.


How is sleeping with a baby "instilling independence"? I can't tell you how many times I've been asked that. And the answer is the same for both. I work to give my child safety and love and attachment. She will naturally become independent as she's ready. I don't have to "instill" it.


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## SparklingGemini (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
How is sleeping with a baby "instilling independence"? I can't tell you how many times I've been asked that. And the answer is the same for both. I work to give my child safety and love and attachment. She will naturally become independent as she's ready. I don't have to "instill" it.

I'm not saying that cosleeping is "instilling" independence, I'm just saying that if its a choice that's valued you find a way to make it work. Even with challenges.

And as for leashes, I think they hinder independence. Not allow it to occur at its natural pace.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklingGemini* 
How is tethering your child to your arm instilling independence? Truly?


By permitting him exactly the amount of independence that he's ready for and that he craves. My 2 year old brings me his harness backpack and asks for me to put it on. He's a runner. Like many 2 year olds, he's impulsive, and isn't old enough to understand why he shouldn't be running into the street. He wants to be close to me, craves safety and security, but also wants to explore his world as much as possible. The harness has been the best choice for him. I'd never tell anyone else what's best for their own child, but I'm perfectly secure in knowing my own children well enough to determine what's best for them.
My older son was also very impulsive and a runner. He was also my only child until two years ago, and I could more easily keep up with him and redirect him. Though, there were times when I wished I had a harness because he ran too fast and hid from me. Now that I have two children - and my oldest has autism and often needs more from me than my two year old does, including help with his impulsiveness and the many difficulties that come with sensory overload - I'm thankful that I have a way to keep my youngest safe without taking anything away from him.
I'm not a believer in many of the parenting ideals that some at MDC are. Had I bought into the Continuum Concept, for example, my oldest would likely be dead. Different things work for different kids. Thank goodness they're not all alike! The world needs a diversity of personalities!


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklingGemini* 

And as for leashes, I think they hinder independence. Not allow it to occur at its natural pace.

I disagree.
But, I offer the idea that a dead child would also not become independent at a natural pace.

May you have the freedom to continue parenting in the ways that you believe. And may I have the same.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklingGemini* 

It was worth it to me to instill independence, understanding and respect with those kids and now, with my own.


My son is now 3.5 and he has plenty of that. We haven't had to even think about anything like a leash for a good oh - probably a year.

The leash was useful at an age when it wouldn't have mattered either way; he was just not there developmentally. Really, kids grow over time.

It is great you stick to your convictions, but there are lots of ways to get from point A to point B.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

The leash is less demeaning than staying indoors all the time, until your child finally learns how to stay out of the freaking street. They are also less painful than the nursemaid's elbow your child could end up with because when you hold hands, she continually drops into limp-toddler mode, placing her full weight in one arm. While you are recovering from labor and have a child in a sling. In the middle of a crosswalk. For which the light is too short.

Quote:

And as for leashes, I think they hinder independence. Not allow it to occur at its natural pace.
I am allowing independence, just not running into a crowd of people or into the street.

However, the leash doesn't work either. Basically, the life dream of my toddler is to run into the street in front of a truck to see what will happen, and any effort of mine to prevent that happening results in a screaming fit (including, not going anywhere).

I once saw a kid run out in front of a car, mom had been holding his hand but he wrestled away and she had a baby in the other hand, and he did get hit. Luckily it was a side street and he wasn't killed instantly, but I'll never know if he died of a hemorrhage later.

Bring on the harness, the double-stroller, and the restraint system. Independence be darned, I prefer a live child. When she's five and more logical THEN she can kill herself.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Well, my son was a climber and a dasher. More to the point, he has total focus (even now) - when something grabs his interest, he almost can't hear. Even if you're yelling "ice cream."







He's just that kind of kid.

At our zoo, anyway, when we would go there would be a lot of school groups of sort of grade 4-6 and it helped a lot to not have him dash into a group of kids that way. We also have indoor parts to our zoo (pavillions) where there are a lot of good hiding spots that he adored dashing into.

On busy sidewalks in say, the Beaches area of our town, where the sidewalk is not extra-wide, there are lots of people, and parked cars and cars on the road, it was really a lifesaver. My son went through a period of hating the Ergo, the sling, and the stroller (unless he was worn out) and I really was glad to not have to make the choice of having one of us unhappy. He explored so many neat things with both hands - windows, pipes, bricks, planters.

For me anyway, the leash offered me the security of being able to enjoy his exploration. I know I posted already but I can't emphasize that enough. We were in situations where he was pretty safe, but I personally would have worried without that extra tie.

When I see a parent saying to their child "no! No! This way! Hold my hand! Right now! Don't go there!" as a constant litany, and the child is pretty young to follow directions, I often think that it's a little sad that they are spending so much energy on it at certain ages... but to each his own.









So basically you are almost a bad mom if you don't use one? That is a new spin!

Also, for what it's worth I try very hard not to say "no, no!" to my dd unless it is a really big deal ie going in the street etc.

I do gently remind her that she needs to hold hands with me and if she is having a hard time with the compliance a certain situation requires I adjust myself and my own expectations. If going to the zoo without a leash presented too many issues I would not be going to the zoo until it was more developmentally appropriate for her. I am not of the mindset that we need to be going and doing everything regardless of her current abilities.

I guess in that way it is to each their own.

I still will look sideways at a child being walked around on a leash.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklingGemini* 
How is tethering your child to your arm instilling independence? Truly?

I mean no harm, I just don't understand this mentality.

I think that if you(general)take a stand on a parenting choice, such as breastfeeding, cosleeping, no leashing, homeschooling, etc. than you make it work regardless of the "different personalities" a child has and the challenges facing you.


Okay, this is where we differ.

For me, attachment parenting is about fostering a connection, and meeting my son's needs. Period. We did look to breastfeeding and co-sleeping for that, but if my son had, for example, needed to sleep in his own space we'd've run with it.

For us, the leash did that much better at the particular stage for which it was useful: It met his need to explore, to touch (with both hands, and to fall with both hands), and to have some freedom of movement, while meeting my need for safety.

The reason I bring it up on these threads, I guess, is because I felt it really enabled me to get out of the role of "hall monitor/disciplinarian" and really BE with him in situations where normally I would have been much more on guard. I really feel that it increased our attachment. I would never, ever have guessed that some contraption would have. Sure, if we were in a park with no cars it would have been different.

He certainly wasn't on it all the time, but when it worked, it really, really worked. I remember being in the butterfly pavillion with him crouched down touching the leaves and a butterfly landing on his shoe... it was such a moment of wonder, and holding hands (it was fairly crowded behind us) we would have missed it because he was partway under a little branch... anyway. At the park it wouldn't have been necessary. But we enjoyed those times, and the auto show where he got to climb! on! cars! and touch! tires! and... gosh. So many good memories of him toddling around.

I'm a worrier, so that was a factor too.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklingGemini* 

I used to nanny. For five kids.

We went places, did things, were in crowds and I never ever used a leash.

Was it always easy? No.

Did I have to work hard with the kids? Yes.

Were they confined in a stroller, harness, sling etc.? Never.

Was one or two of them a runner? Absolutely.

I still never used a leash.







:

How old were the kids?

And does







: mean you think safety harnesses for toddlers (let's face it, unless you're steering them it isn't a leash) are always evil?

And you never yelled at the kids?

I also love the assumption that people use the harnesses instead of working with their kids.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
So basically you are almost a bad mom if you don't use one? That is a new spin!

Also, for what it's worth I try very hard not to say "no, no!" to my dd unless it is a really big deal ie going in the street etc.

I do gently remind her that she needs to hold hands with me and if she is having a hard time with the compliance a certain situation requires I adjust myself and my own expectations. If going to the zoo without a leash presented too many issues I would not be going to the zoo until it was more developmentally appropriate for her. I am not of the mindset that we need to be going and doing everything regardless of her current abilities.

I guess in that way it is to each their own.

I still will look sideways at a child being walked around on a leash.

No, definitely not. I just think that people are quick to judge the appearance of leashes when they are very tolerant of corrections.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
I disagree.
But, I offer the idea that a dead child would also not become independent at a natural pace.

May you have the freedom to continue parenting in the ways that you believe. And may I have the same.

Obviously you have the freedom to walk your child on a leash, who is going to stop you? But people don't have to like it or accept it as appropriate. And people can disagree with you. And wasn't this thread posed as a question about if you think leashes are demeaning to children? So can't some people say "No"?
I still am so surprised that so many MDC mamas are into these things!


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
How old were the kids?

And does







: mean you think safety harnesses for toddlers (let's face it, unless you're steering them it isn't a leash) are always evil?

And you never yelled at the kids?

I also love the assumption that people use the harnesses instead of working with their kids.


So calling it a harness makes it less of a leash? I had a "harness" for my dog....it connected to a leash! Does your "harness" have a leash-like appendage that you hold onto?


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
Obviously you have the freedom to walk your child on a leash, who is going to stop you? But people don't have to like it or accept it as appropriate. And people can disagree with you. And wasn't this thread posed as a question about if you think leashes are demeaning to children? So can't some people say "No"?
I still am so surprised that so many MDC mamas are into these things!

I'm still surprised that so many MDC mamas haven't learned that different things work for different children and their families.
I'm still surprised that so many MDC mamas are so invested in considering themselves superior and looking down on others for making different choices for those different children and different circumstances.
I wasn't asking permission for the freedom. More along the lines of asking for respect and consideration of the fact that we are all different. And, just as I wouldn't sit in judgment of another parent who's doing the best they can in their situation, I would hope that another parent wouldn't sit in judgment of me. Obviously, that's too much to ask for. Still, I have hope that the people on a forum where so many unconventional parenting methods are supported would open their minds to the concept that what works for them may not work for someone else. That doesn't make any of us wrong, or mean that we're somehow harming our children. It means, quite simply, that we're in different circumstances. That happens in a world where everyone's unique.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
I'm still surprised that so many MDC mamas haven't learned that different things work for different children and their families.
I'm still surprised that so many MDC mamas are so invested in considering themselves superior and looking down on others for making different choices for those different children and different circumstances.
I wasn't asking permission for the freedom. More along the lines of asking for respect and consideration of the fact that we are all different. And, just as I wouldn't sit in judgment of another parent who's doing the best they can in their situation, I would hope that another parent wouldn't sit in judgment of me. Obviously, that's too much to ask for. Still, I have hope that the people on a forum where so many unconventional parenting methods are supported would open their minds to the concept that what works for them may not work for someone else. That doesn't make any of us wrong, or mean that we're somehow harming our children. It means, quite simply, that we're in different circumstances. That happens in a world where everyone's unique.

I heartily agree that different things work for different moms. But does that open the door for say washing your LO's mouth out with soap? Does that apply to spanking(some say it really works for _them_. How about time outs? How about taking favorite toys away? How about weaning your LO at 8 months because they "really like the independence of holding the bottle on their own" (yes, my SIL said that to me)?

I just think yes, there are different ways to do things, this, to me, is not an acceptable one.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

I have seen alot of comments regarding harnesses and it hindering independence.

If you had a child that had sensory issues or any other issues that made it unsafe to go to busy places or near traffic....would you choose to stay home?

Or would you use a monkey backpack, insuring your childs safety? Allowing your child to experience new and exciting things?


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
I heartily agree that different things work for different moms. But does that open the door for say washing your LO's mouth out with soap? Does that apply to spanking(some say it really works for _them_. How about time outs? How about taking favorite toys away? How about weaning your LO at 8 months because they "really like the independence of holding the bottle on their own" (yes, my SIL said that to me)?

I just think yes, there are different ways to do things, this, to me, is not an acceptable one.

Then, certainly, don't use one for your child. I wouldn't think of forcing you to, or calling you a bad mom because you don't.
We obviously approach things very differently. I don't consider parents who spank or wash kids mouths out with soap or take their kids toys away or wean early to be bad parents for those choices. Just parents who are making some choices that may be different than the choices I make for my own children.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
I have seen alot of comments regarding harnesses and it hindering independence.

If you had a child that had sensory issues or any other issues that made it unsafe to go to busy places or near traffic....would you choose to stay home?

Or would you use a monkey backpack, insuring your childs safety? Allowing your child to experience new and exciting things?

I doubt that those people who don't have kids with major sensory issues can accurately answer that question, not having a clue as to what it means to be in that situation. I'm in agreement with you, however.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

lotusdebi---I agree. Unless you live day to day with sensory issues you really can't give advice to a mom who does. I try to live an AP lifestyle but....it was a choice of either confining ourselves indoors or wearing a cute monkey that my daughter loved and go out and about. It was for her safety.

There were days she refused to wear it, but there are days she refuses to wear clothes! On those days we rearranged our plans.

I have never FORCED her to wear it. It was never used as a punishment. It was strictly safety.

She loved being a big girl walking me and the monkey.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
I try to live an AP lifestyle but....it was a choice of either confining ourselves indoors or wearing a cute monkey that my daughter loved and go out and about. It was for her safety.

I know I differ from many with my definition of AP. For me, it's not a matter of doing things from a checklist. It's about meeting your child's needs. One example: for some children, cosleeping is counter-indicated; it's not good or healthy for them. Forcing them to cosleep in such a situation is, IMO, counter to attachment parenting. You're not meeting their emotional or physical needs by cosleeping, you're just checking something off a list from a book. Kids are all different, and they need different things. To not recognize that is to deny a child what's in their best interest.
In other words, I don't think that using a harness is not AP. I think it's perfectly AP if it's what's indicated for that particular child. Just like using a sling is AP for some children, and not for others. It's about the child, not a list.
But, I know that many people are very invested in that list, and would disagree with me on this.


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## jljeppson (Jul 18, 2004)

Jumping in here, but I would have to agree. I've co-slept with most of my children to some extent or other, but have one that by 3 wks was in his own bed and that's where he stayed. He didn't sleep well, and in turn I didn't, when he was in bed with us. I have owned one of those harnesses in the past, and found it quite useful with one of my children. It was either have him wear it and know where he was at all times when we were at the mall, have him kicking and screaming while in the stroller, or have him disappear the second my back was turned. I actually had a woman say to me once, "Aren't those things illegal?" Um, obviously not or I wouldn't be using it.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 

And I would love to know how parents exsisted before the introduction of the leash? Or is that a piece of history that time has forgotten?

Leading Strings

Leading stings were commonly employed on children's dresses from the 16th to 18th Century. They were precisely what they sounded like. The strips of fabric matching or coordinated with the dress fabric that were sewn on to the dress at the shoulders. The other end fell freely down the back of the dress. Some dresses did not have leading strings sewn on directly, but they would be pinned on if the mother so desired. The "strings" were considered practical for assisting younger children and controlling rambunctious children for whom they were used rather as a lease. Practices and conventions varied for boys and girls. Eventually leading strings in popular parkance became to be used more and more as a restraining device rather than walking aids. The term "harness" gradually became more and more popular . From 1900 to 1950, parents used the term "leather baby harness" for a 1 to 5 years old and "toddler harness for children from 2 to 5 years old.

Just a little history...

Deanna


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

We choose to use a harness in 3 situations (a few repeated)..
1) the air port I used to fly home each summer to visit my parents and would take my DD along my DH stayed home cause he had to work.. I used the harness because I had to also balance luggage (for a spell) carry on bags and a car seat. I personaly felt the potiental danger of a crowded airport made the extra security worth it and I needed both my hands...

2) a super crowded confrence where DD was very well behaved and held tight to my hand but in the crowd she got pulled from me and was very scared the harness gave her security

3) a zoo trip mostly cause she wanted to wear it







and would get mad if I dropped the tail to let her freely walk with me









Other parents have made the decession to use one for more occasions other choose not at all I fail to see how ones choice of a harness can be prepared with say washing ones mouth out with soap or CIO ect.

Deanna


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

For me I think there is a time and a place for them. My DD was a runner and last summer I had to have her in a stroller or the Ergo so she wouldn't bolt at the farmer's market and run into the street. I wish I had one of those packs with her, it would have helped us let her be independent and not have to be in the stroller. She just would constantly run away, she just thought it was a game. Now she always wants to "hold my hand" as she says.

If this baby is the same way, I am getting one no problems. I am concerned about the safety of my children and if that keeps them safe-so be it.


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## Lilypie32 (Aug 19, 2008)

Leashes are not demeaning. I don't think it's demeaning for my dog or for my child. It is to keep them both safe. A stroller is the same thing IMO. You use it to keep your child strapped into so they cannot run off. The appropriate term is harness and no one will bark at your child.

You should stop listening to your sister and tell her to keep her opinions to herself.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
So calling it a harness makes it less of a leash? I had a "harness" for my dog....it connected to a leash! Does your "harness" have a leash-like appendage that you hold onto?

No, because the only harness I own is our 5-point carseat.

Lina isn't walking so I have no idea if I'll need to tether her to me. However, if I feel it's better for us as a family, I'm not about to be convinced not to use one because of an argument that basically amounts to "I didn't do it that way, therefore it's bad."

Oh, and I only care about the term "leash" because it has connotations that people like the OP's sister can't get past.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
I once saw a kid run out in front of a car, mom had been holding his hand but he wrestled away and she had a baby in the other hand, and he did get hit.









: That must've been terrifying for you. I can't imagine what the mom went through.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

And you know what'll make the experience demeaning for the child? People sneering.

Just like harnessed carseats aren't demeaning to 6 year olds until someone teases them for sitting in one.

Fortunately, 2 year olds are generally less aware of that sort of thing.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Okay, this is where we differ.

For me, attachment parenting is about fostering a connection, and meeting my son's needs. Period. We did look to breastfeeding and co-sleeping for that, but if my son had, for example, needed to sleep in his own space we'd've run with it.

For us, the leash did that much better at the particular stage for which it was useful: It met his need to explore, to touch (with both hands, and to fall with both hands), and to have some freedom of movement, while meeting my need for safety.

The reason I bring it up on these threads, I guess, is because I felt it really enabled me to get out of the role of "hall monitor/disciplinarian" and really BE with him in situations where normally I would have been much more on guard. I really feel that it increased our attachment. I would never, ever have guessed that some contraption would have. Sure, if we were in a park with no cars it would have been different.

We used our harness/reins in very similar ways. DS #1 would go limp and slump to the ground if I tried to make him hold hands. He'd lean over off my hip until I was carrying like a football if I tried to carry him. He loved to find sticks and pinecones and rocks and carry them around.

We live in a place of great natural beauty, but a lot of dangers - cliffs, rockslides, fast-moving water with deep splashpools and waterfalls. In order for him to be able to really experience all those things, he needed to be down and walking.

The fact that the reins let him wander a BIT (the reins were in a loop that was only about 1.5 or 2 feet long, and let him stoop to pick things up and move his whole body in different directions to look around was *key* to him. The fact that he wasn't pitching a huge tantrum because he had to hold my hand was key to *me*. The fact that I knew he couldn't get far enough away to fall into the creek and be pushed under a rock by a waterfall was key to *everyone*

We used the safety net aspect of the time with the harness to work on the needed skills to go without it. I never yanked on it, I usually put it on him, looped it on my wrist and then tried to hold hands as much as possible, and talk about staying close to me, and not leaving the paths.... It was not a substitute for that kind of work and learning, but let us out to do more and see more while he developed those skills.


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
I'm still surprised that so many MDC mamas haven't learned that different things work for different children and their families.
I'm still surprised that so many MDC mamas are so invested in considering themselves superior and looking down on others for making different choices for those different children and different circumstances.
I wasn't asking permission for the freedom. More along the lines of asking for respect and consideration of the fact that we are all different. And, just as I wouldn't sit in judgment of another parent who's doing the best they can in their situation, I would hope that another parent wouldn't sit in judgment of me. Obviously, that's too much to ask for. Still, I have hope that the people on a forum where so many unconventional parenting methods are supported would open their minds to the concept that what works for them may not work for someone else. That doesn't make any of us wrong, or mean that we're somehow harming our children. It means, quite simply, that we're in different circumstances. That happens in a world where everyone's unique.









:

We used our harness today at the zoo. My one son has PDD and CP. He's also small for his age; holding is hand can be uncomfortable for everyone, especially when it's warm out. He tends to dart away from me, especially in parking lots. He also has a twin brother. I'll take the harness over him getting hit by a car any day.









I know our situation, I know my child's needs. I don't care if other people judge us, though of course I'd prefer if they didn't. If you feel







: by a harness, by all means, don't use one.


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## phrogger (Oct 16, 2006)

I read the responses and I am surprised at the woman who are so against harnesses. I guess I don't care what you call it, leash, dog lead, harness, tie, what ever, if it works for my family, then that is awesome.

I am pg and probably wont have to use one on most days, BUT that is because I have 3 older kids (will be 10, almost 10 and 13 when this baby is born) and they can RUN after the baby if needed. However, if this baby is anything like my step son, then if I am out by myself, the harness will be a god send.

I am not worried about my child have independence at 2, I am worried about my kid staying safe. My first two sons were fine with being carried or in a stroller or walking right next to me. My step son, STILL has to be reminded to stay with us, and he is 9. He loses track of what he is doing and wonders off, I can only imagine what would happen with a young child.

My job as a parent is to ensure my child makes it safely to adult hood, but along the way, has a good time and enjoys life. So if my kid would rather be on a harness and gets to enjoy the zoo, the beach, the were ever he wants to explore a little, that is awesome. He doesn't have to be tied to me constantly (like a sling or carrier) or stuck in a stroller. Holding their hand could be fine, but it is painful after a while.

I can't say what will happen with this baby, it will all depend on HIS personality. But I know I am more concerned with my baby being safe and having a good time, then I am worried about some sense of teaching indenpendence to a child who is too young to be independant anyway.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

It all depends on how the leash is used. For a short-time, in particular circumstances I doubt anyone would have a problem with it. If it is being used on a daily basis, long-term - that's when it seems parenting is being replaced with convenience. Maybe the convenience would be worth it to me if I had a "runner" but my ideal would be to teach and direct and interact with my child to develop their self-control and listening/safety skills. Regular usage of a leash seems like it could hinder this development. My







:


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## momo7 (Apr 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gentle~Mommy * 
My sister is giving me a hard time, it looks like I am walking a dog when my little guy wears his.

We have been practicing with it around the house because we are going to the zoo next weekend and he keeps running away from us out in pubic







so I want to use it at the zoo to keep him safe. He hates the stroller and his baby brother will be in the stroller anyway.

He loves the harness, it is like a monkey and I hold the tail part.









My sister says it's demeaning to have my child on a leash and will harm him emotionally.







:

Is that true?


NO, I don't think its true at all. I had one once but it was a wirst wrap not a harness...my guy would take it off and run away...so i can sympathize with you about wanting to keep him safe. You said yourself that he loves it, so why worry about what someone else thinks. It's about you and him not what other people have to say.


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

I have absolutely loved the freedom harnesses have given to my children. Both of them did not like holding hands, hated strollers, and were runners. The harness kept them safe, gave them some freedom to touch things and run a little ahead of us. To parents who say that over 2 they should not be used. . .well, I think that depends on the situation. This last year we went to a very large Lantern Festival. There were so many people that you could not see through them or around them at all. My DD (7) was great about holding hands at all times (she's gotten past her aversion to this through the years and now actually enjoys holding hands) however my DS (4) still absolutely hates to hold hands (complains his hand gets hot). A stroller would not have worked in this situation as there is no way even a small umbrella stroller would have even moved in this sea of people. I guess I could have just told him to walk beside me, but I could imagine him looking at something for a second and then he would have been gone. . .I was totally freaked about his safety (and no, I'm not a bad or inattentive mother, there were just sooooooo many people). I took off my scarf and tied it to a beltloop on his pants. That way even if I was watching him all the time, if my eyes had to look at something else for a second, I knew he was still with me. There was no way a parent could keep a child this age with them unless they were really holding on to their hand tight or carrying them. My solution worked. Sure, he's 4. . .and for the most part he tends to stay with me most of the time without any restraint. . .however, for his safety and my peace of mind, this solution worked for us.

Using harnesses or something like that (a backpack, scarf, whatever), I've never had a negative comment. I've only been praised and asked where another parent could get one. When people have seen my children, they see how happy they are (we never drag them around and always let them explore what they need to explore) and how free they are to wander within a certain limit and always comment about how great it is that my children get to move. We have used strollers with our children, but usually only in situations when we knew they would get too tired to walk (like when we do our 36 hour trip back to the states every few years). I guess if the child is happy, the parents are happy, and if it isn't used in a demeaning manner. . .more power to the family who chooses to use them.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

What makes me saddest when reading this thread is that it reminds me that when i was a fourteen year old girl 40 minutes work with a full-up 15.3hh stallion meant i NEVER had to use a rope to lead him again (i just joined-up and he followed me) for the next 2 years. I've had DD for 3 years and i STILL can't convince her to walk where i'm going!







Lol I need natural childmanship lessons....


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## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

My DS also has a monkey harness. While he doesn't mind being in the stroller sometimes when we go to crowded places (sorry- I refuse to believe that strollers are evil. It's a good place for him to sleep or be when I'm shopping because at almost 2, 36" tall and 34+lbs, my gigantic toddler is getting too big to carry), he is a runner when he's not in the stroller. We're going on a trip in a few weeks and I will be using the harness in the airport so he can safely move around as much as possible before our 8 hour flight. I have seen people use them like they're walking dogs- my FIL did this until DH corrected him- but ultimately they serve two purposes: to give your child freedom and to keep him safe. I'm not sure why that's so wrong.


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## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Raene* 

*But I will also say I can't stand strollers and kids in strollers...I think if you have to use one, that leashes are better b/c at least the child is getting some exercise. Strollers just seem so wrong...I see all of these really energetic parents with their kids in strollers and wonder how that is teaching the kid that exercise is important and fun.*



Why is putting a child in a sling not confining and wrong but a stroller is?


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## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 

And I would love to know how parents exsisted before the introduction of the leash? Or is that a piece of history that time has forgotten?

Leashes and harnesses for children are not new. The Victorians used to use them. The harnesses/leashes were sewn into the clothes.
Keeping your child safe by some sort of restraint is common in many cultures. That's what babywearing is, isn't it? We wear mei tais, slings, wraps, etc. Why is that different? Our child is being restrained. Although we don't like to think of it in that way, that's what it is.
Ultimately, these things were made to keep our children safe. Where is the harm in that?


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## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 

Bring on the harness, the double-stroller, and the restraint system. Independence be darned, I prefer a live child. When she's five and more logical THEN she can kill herself.









:


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
I have seen alot of comments regarding harnesses and it hindering independence.

If you had a child that had sensory issues or any other issues that made it unsafe to go to busy places or near traffic....would you choose to stay home?

Or would you use a monkey backpack, insuring your childs safety? Allowing your child to experience new and exciting things?

I would still like to hear some responses to my earlier posts?

Just wondering if having to stay home or in safe places is more or less confining than a monkey backpack to go new fun places?

Also wondering if any of the moms against harnesses have children with sensory issues?


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Draupadi* 
Why is putting a child in a sling not confining and wrong but a stroller is?

I don't think strollers are that horrible after a child is older, but for babies a sling brings a child closer to mama and a stroller encourages separation.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

we bought a monkey backpack for my dd when she was 23 mos and i had a newborn. i took the kids out alone once and my dd nearly bolted into traffic. i immediately went and bought a backpack/leash (something i thought i would never do) and it worked very well for us.

she loved it and we often got comments about how cute it was.

i gave it away before my son was a toddler but having twice lost my son in a public place, i wish i hadn't.

now my kids are a bit older (3 and 5) and we use a "walking rope" when we go out. something i borrowed from my dd's preschool. just a long rope with hand loops on it that we all hold onto. right now my kids are into both being the leader and pulling me so we've turned it into horse reins.


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## Tizzy (Mar 16, 2007)

Are they demeaning and passive-aggressive?

IMO, yes.


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## jt'smum (Apr 13, 2004)

With my first I never used one as I thought they were horrid. She was in her sling or her stroller. She wasn't a runner. With this DD its the Baby Bjorn(sling is being sewn) and her stroller.

After reading all these posts I think I might like to give it a try. I never thought about the independence it can give a child especially when at the zoo or other places. Plus, holding on to little sweaty hands get pretty sticky on 90degree plus days.

So my opinion has been changed and will likely get one when DD is older just to see how it works for us. Thanks!


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

yes they are....

.... until you have the runaway child.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
I don't think strollers are that horrible after a child is older, but for babies a sling brings a child closer to mama and a stroller encourages separation.

OT of HTIS discusssion but the above is not true if your baby absoultly HATES being slung. My DD hated being slung as a bay absoultly HATED it (loved it past 2 when shes was too heavy to do it a long time







) but as a baby







However the stroller she loved. Don't assume...

Deanna


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little grey mare* 
Are they demeaning and passive-aggressive?

IMO, yes.

Passive aggressive? How is that?


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

I was a very short child...very short. I was about the size of a three year old when I was six.

I have many memories of walking with taller adults, and I remember how I felt when we held hands. Being so short, my arm was extended above my head. I don't know how many adults walk like that, but I would encourage you to try it. Hold it up. In about 20 seconds, the fingers start tingling. The blood rushes down and the arm goes numb within a few minutes.

I love children. I adore them, and agree that they need to be given the independence they are ready for. The zoning toddler doesn't always hear warnings or is attentive to their surroundings. But I could not in good conscience force one to hold my hand for longer than they are willing or able. By restricting our choices, I'm not respecting the child.

I cannot promote the use of hand-holding over the harness - not for the little-littles that still require extra guidance. The harness protects not only their safety, but their well-being. The only other option to give independence for long periods of time would be to not use anything at all and try to rely on my eyes only. One sense, to keep my child safe. That scares me. I'd rather give independence in stages than lose a child due to my own prejudice.

I'm also not saying that every child needs a leash or that every situation requires one. But having been around toddler Dorys (ooooh.....shiny thing! Zoom!), I can't rule them out as a possibility.


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## kay4 (Nov 30, 2004)

I don't like the child leashes and have never used one with any of my 4 children. I held hands or they went in the stroller. If they wanted to walk they had to holds hands, if they didn't they went in the stroller.
To each their own though


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

In the eighties, my mum had one of those wrist to wrist harnesses for my younger brother. I'm pretty sure she used it until he was almost six; he had ODD and ADHD and with five kids, she needed him close by. He never fought it because it gave him enough room to roam and explore, but the security to know that he would be stopped short if he got too far.

I haven't needed to use anything like a harness/leash/what-have-you with my older dd (she is 6.5) but I KNOW I will need to use one with my 16 month old. She's already a runner, and we have several big trips planned this summer. She thinks the horsey-tail/back-pack combo is hilarious and doesn't fuss at it at all.

She prefers it to the stroller, and at 29 lbs she's too heavy for me to mei-tai for very long.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
OT of HTIS discusssion but the above is not true if your baby absoultly HATES being slung. My DD hated being slung as a bay absoultly HATED it (loved it past 2 when shes was too heavy to do it a long time







) but as a baby







However the stroller she loved. Don't assume...

Deanna









Sorry, I meant why a sling should be tried first and is better for most babies. Kind of like how co-sleeping should be the default, but some babies sleep better with some space.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little grey mare* 
Are they demeaning and passive-aggressive?

IMO, yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_aggressive


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kay4* 
I don't like the child leashes and have never used one with any of my 4 children. I held hands or they went in the stroller. If they wanted to walk they had to holds hands, if they didn't they went in the stroller.

Why is making a child walk with their arm in an uncomfortable position being held up as virtuous


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I keep waiting for someone to share a story of being told that their child will never learn not to run off if they keep using a harness.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

: Would the hand-holding advocates do a little experiment? Spend an hour with your hand up in the air. I think you will find it rather uncomfortable.


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## jt'smum (Apr 13, 2004)

laughup

Jeez now with thinking how uncomfortable that must be with the arm up...I am getting one...Now for DD to start walking so I can use it...


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 







: Would the hand-holding advocates do a little experiment? Spend an hour with your hand up in the air. I think you will find it rather uncomfortable.

Also, a friend who used one had a ds who was an explorer - he wanted his hands free to touch things. And that small amount more freedom - just being able to move a little more with a harness than holding a hand - was important to him.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

if you and child are oay with it I think its fine.

I don't forsee myself using one, but my kids have seen them in target and think they look fun.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

great insight on the hand holding thing. I never thought of it that way. My kids like to hold my hand though. My 3.5yo just outgrew the desire to do so, but will hold my hand sometimes. if he doesnt want to hold my hand when we cross the street to school I just hold the hook on his back pack. They have at times held onto the baby's leg while baby was in a carrier, or held onto a stroller I was pushing. we've never really had a problem with this, yet


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

ditto to the baby carrier too, if mom and child are up for it. My kids LOVE the carrier and often ask to have a turn in it.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Since there seems to be a bit of "I never had to use them" boasting from the few people who disapprove of harnesses, can I ask if you fear that people will assume that a parent who uses a harness can't control their children?

I think it's a bit like the difference between child-proofing and saying "no" all the time.

And kids are all different. I read all the time about having to have the kids in the bathroom stall with you, but I saw a mom just ask her kids to stand in front of the stall door where she could see their feet while she went to the bathroom. One started to step away and she said "Name, I need to see your feet" and he stepped right back into place. Of course, they were ~3 and 6.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Biscuits & Gravy* 
If you and your child are comfortable and happy with it, and it keeps your child safe then I see no harm. It is the misuse of them that I have a problem with. I've seen parents use them like a leash, snapping the child back to them instead of gently guiding them. That is demeaning.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I've seen a lot of people yank their kids around by their arms too.

I've seen both of these, and also seen children being "dragged" by a leash or by their arm.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
I agree and have never thought about using one-- with four kids. But, if it works for another family, and the the toddler doesn't mind, then who am I to say it's not appropriate. If you are comfortable with it, don't worry about what other people think.

I do think, personally, it looks funny







Just cause I saw a little girl with one on her back last weekend and the dad was seriously jerking her around, the opposite way she appeared to want to go. She clearly was not liking it.

I think they are cute! I realize though that while my children also think they look fun they wouldn't like them. Just their personalities, so far.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Since there seems to be a bit of "I never had to use them" boasting from the few people who disapprove of harnesses, can I ask if you fear that people will assume that a parent who uses a harness can't control their children?

I think it's a bit like the difference between child-proofing and saying "no" all the time.

maybe i dont count since I dont disprove the harness, but I am one who hasnt had a need for one, and my childrens personalities lead my to think they would not like one in use...but I dont think AT ALL its a sign someone cant control their children. then again, I dont think parents should control their children, so perhaps I am th wrong one to answer in that respect too


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

to be honest, when I see a child walking well with the harness I think those parents look more "in control" then me, bbecause I shudder to think how my children would act with one of those one. surely not the way I see them working for other families! definitely no room for me to boast there, if your child is cooperative in a child harness they are (in my eyes) probably very cooperative the rest of the time as well. In those cases where both parents and child seem to like using them, I would say its more so child can feel free to explore without having to "mind" how far from their parent they are.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 







: Would the hand-holding advocates do a little experiment? Spend an hour with your hand up in the air. I think you will find it rather uncomfortable.

I've seen that argument a lot, but honestly, that never was a problem for us. Maybe it's just because I'm short!

For the most part my kids stayed with me; if they bolted, I was always faster and could catch 'em quick!

I'm glad they are well past the toddler stage now!


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
Given the choice between stroller, sling, hand holding, and harness, DD would choose the harness. She wanted to move those little legs, and hand holding hurts after a while. Also if she decided she was going to go, she would yank and wrench her hand away from us and I was always afraid she would dislocate her elbow or something, she was that determined to get away. At least with the harness she had less of a chance of injuring herself. She would also scream and thrash in the sling or the stroller if she got to that point.

I wonder how many people who never used one and would never consider it had screaming thrashing runners? Did you ever try to push a flimsy umbrella stroller with a kid flailing every which way, or try to keep one from tossing themself out of the sling upside down? (nevermind the weird looks, I'm sure I did wonders for the normalization of babywearing those days)

how wonderful that you are in tune to your daughter's preferences. It's great you looked at all your options an found one you both feel comfortable with!







For me, if my children were thrashing runners Id probably be even less likely to use one though LOL I'd try it, but knowing *my* kids I know if they felt that way then being in a harness would make them more angry. Honestly though, the backpacks are so cute and practical, I'd love to be able to use one!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
My response to anyone who gave me crap was "My kid is up and walking. Yours is strapped with a 5-point harness to an inanimate object with wheels. Which of these things is more demeaning?"

I am not sure I would want to meet unkindness with unkindness. My children LOVE the stroller. I rarely use one, because I think they are a huge hassle to use I much prefer my kids to walk, but when I do use one they get VERY excited about a stroller "ride".

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Yeah but you can't trust an 18-month-old to not let go of the rope and run off in the busy airport, for instance. And what difference does it make if it looks leash-ish, or if they're also used for dogs? Fences are put up for both children and dogs and it doesn't make them demeaning for children. The fact that they're useful for both doesn't make them bad.

Some children like to be down, moving around. Slings won't help for them any more than strollers.

And holding them by the hand is just as restrictive, if not more so. There's more room for movement with a harness.

The "it looks like something for a dog" argument is really just irrational. The fact that dogs use harnesses is completely irrelevant as far as whether they're good or bad for children.

ITA with you. Your insight has been awesome in this thread!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leilalu* 
All I can say, is that if people use leashes to keep pets safe, of course it's ok to use one in a situation that requires keeping your child safe. Not demeaning. It's smart. Children are way more important than pets.

excellent point again!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goodheartedmama* 
My kids think they're hilarious and willingly wear them. I'd much rather be judged for keeping my kids safe than have something bad happen to them. How is it any different from forcing them to hold hands?

I agree! My only thought different is that I don't force my children to hold hands. I wouldn't force my child to wear a harness either. If the harness is being used forcible (or hand holding or a stroller, etc) I would not say I think its appropriate, but I do think its great when parent and child both feel comfortable with it.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
I don't care if parents use leashes - none of my business. But what does bother me are:

Leashes that are very long, and parents let the kid cut in front of my family and me or my kids get clotheslined by it

Leashes that are long and parents don't pick up the slack so other people end up tripping on it.

Parents who use the leash to tug, drag, or otherwise control the direction the child is going

Parents who think that since their kid is on a leash, they don't have to pay any attention to what he's actually doing (like in one case I observed at a campsite, where the carefully leashed child was stuffing leaves and sticks in his mouth while his mother chatted away, completely oblivious).

I agree with that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamarootoo* 
(bolding mine)
little legs can't walk as far as really energetic parent legs.

so true! Thought my kids seem to be able to walk much further then the average child lol. (2 miles to the park no problem, and half way back after playing at the park for a while)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum* 
Well, if your sister is right, I should be emotionally harmed, and so should almost all the people of my age who grew up in the UK. I _loved_my harness - I still remember it now. It was red leather with a cute little pony on the front. I have very fond memories of it.









And if your sister is right, I"ve damaged all my kids too.

I wonder how emotionally damaging it is, in her opinion, to stick kids in boxes on wheels and push them around, treating them like shopping carts...........









I think I had something similar growing up. didnt bother me AT ALL. it was a rope with handles on it at camp. They use the same thing in my sons school, but my son doesn't hold it lol. They let him walk ahead or behind, or sometimes he chooses to hold someone's had. but when *I* was a kid, I liked the rope thing









Its great to hear how in tune everyone is with their children and what wold work for them


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *geiamama* 
Good lord no. No-one will even bat an eyelid. It sounds to me like your sister is just trying to use guilt and shame to get you to do what she wants. She's also obviously clutching at straws too since she has to come up with such a ridiculous statement!

I agree!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
I have not read the replies...and I may not be one of the few that say that the harness...in some cases is a positive thing.

My daughter has SPD (sensory issues) she will bolt without warning, and when she was three WOULD NOT hold my hand.

I bought a monkey backpack/harness.

Instead of being confined to indoor playareas, or inside our house...

We were free to walk the boardwalk, go to the mall, go to the park.

It did not cage her...it freed her..and made it safe.

She loved her monkey backpack.

Now...at 4.5 she is better out in public and she has a 2 year old sister that has never worn a harness....she is much better in public places.

A safe, happy child is the key!

I think this is why my son doesnt want his hand help recently - sensory issues... to be honest, now that I think about it, maybe my son would like one at this time - he wouldn't have in the past though, and I don't really see a big "need" for one to justify buying one, at this point.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *justthinkn* 
I didn't have time to read all responses, but I'm definitely on the side of, if it gives the child more freedom (and the child likes it, as my DD loves her monkey who gives her "hugs!") and the parents more security, go for it.

I would also say, that I try not to use the tail like a leash, but as a safety backup. I still try to guide DD by hand - it feels more gentle and respectful to me - and have asked DH to do so as well.

<3 <3 <3 Love the way you use it!







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daphneduck* 
I've never seen any of this happening with a child on a leash, not once. I have however had to dodge, and have even tripped over, a child/children running around uncontrollably while their exhausted parents begged them to stop. I've seen parents stand by idly while their unharnessed children, ate leaves, climbed lamp posts and generally made a nuisance of themselves. Anything can be inappropriately used, even handholding.
We love our monkey backpack. It allows DD more Independence and more importantly, it allows DD to _feel_ more independent.

I have seen/experienced both. (children running around, wandering away from parents etc, and also children whose leashes are tripping everyone or parent is just ignoring the leashed child.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
I don't know what this poster was trying to say by this comment, but it is what I have been thinking the whole time I have been reading this thread.

I have a high-spirited 16mo dd and when we were last at the zoo I did not notice anyone with their child on a leash and neither was she.
She did run ahead, she did get excited, but I expect all of that as the mother of a toddler. My legs are longer than hers so logically I should be able to keep up with her. I could concede that if you have other children then that _might_ introduce other variables that I don't always have to deal with, although I have taken several children to the zoo sans leashes with great success.
I am surprised that the general consensus seems to be pro-leash, but at the very least I'm glad most of you realize that it needs to be at the approval of the child!

I have always thought leashes did look demeaning and that has not changed since I have become a mother myself. I personally would never consider a leash and I don't even feel comfortable saying, "to each their own". I was at a parade recently where I saw a 3ish year old on a leash and it just looks _wrong._ If I were at the zoo and saw a child on a leash, especially with a mother that had no other kids with her, I would think it was lazy. I am just trying to be honest here, perfectly expecting to be flamed, but I ha to present the other side. So, flame away!

And I would love to know how parents exsisted before the introduction of the leash? Or is that a piece of history that time has forgotten?

If it were me, and i was just one child with me, I would also prefer not to use the leash, but if my child preferred to use one I wouldn't be close minded to the idea. I think the last question in your post is a bit


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
I don't like them for my _own_ family. They are not for us. I worked a lot with my son (without force or coercion) on the matter so I could avoid the use of them. I saw it as more beneftial to _all_ of our family in the long run (just like how I showed my son how to get safely up and down the stairs on his own when he was physically capable without the need of stairgates). I have also never used any other means to contain him (such as strapping him in a pushchair/sling/etc) - so no hypocritical contradictions here!








I really don't care if other people use them though. I only do wince a bit and breifly think about it when I see them used in a way that I feel is wrong (I have seen them used pretty harshly on a child) - I also do wonder how much people have tried other approaches before resorting to such a device (I was breifly tempted myself but it just seem wrong for _our_ family)...but I am also smart enough (and growing father and farther away from naive) to know that not all people use them that way and that many people use them simply as a safety thing and that 'working with' a child is not always that easy without such a device (multiples/close spacing). For us, this was (one in a million of them of course!) a reason we waited to have more children though. Its about trust for us and trying to live consensually so having a small spacing would not have been practical (in regards to this topic alone) - and of course I can't control wether or not an accident happens or the possiblity of multiples - it didn't happen that way for us and the way we have done things has worked out just great.









I love the way you think.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklingGemini* 
I think child leashes are awful. Yes, awful.

I would never, ever put my child on a leash.

There's a difference if you don't confine your child.

Out of those things you listed we only use a stroller and even then, DD is not buckled in and allowed to get out and roam at will. We use it for when she gets tired, not to confine her.

What I don't get is how we can teach children to be autonomous, to listen, to maintain a sense of freedom and still understand safety, if we are leashing them.

IMO there are ways around these so-called safety devices AND in a way, then lend themselves to a false sense of security for the parents.

thats the same way we use a stroller. we dont strap in either. or a sling if they want to be in it. My kids view it as something special, so I can respect how a child may view a harness the same way. What I dont like in this thread is those who are "pro-harness" trying to make it sound like other options aren't as good or are in fact bad







I think all the options are good choices, if it is working for that family.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklingGemini* 

I used to nanny. For five kids.

We went places, did things, were in crowds and I never ever used a leash.

Was it always easy? No.

Did I have to work hard with the kids? Yes.

Were they confined in a stroller, harness, sling etc.? Never.

Was one or two of them a runner? Absolutely.

I still never used a leash.







:

I hear you, but dont understand why you are angry about it?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
I dare say that the rest of us are also instilling independence, understanding, and respect in our kids. Perhaps we simply have children with different personalities than the ones you have encountered.

I think both sides are instilling healthy independence in different ways

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
How is sleeping with a baby "instilling independence"? I can't tell you how many times I've been asked that. And the answer is the same for both. I work to give my child safety and love and attachment. She will naturally become independent as she's ready. I don't have to "instill" it.

alas, even on MDC we can't escape the mindset of we must make our children independent. I like the idea of harnesses because it lets kids be kids. I like the idea of not using harnesses because it lets kids be kids. Either way can be safe and right for a family, it depends on those involved.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
I disagree.
But, I offer the idea that a dead child would also not become independent at a natural pace.

May you have the freedom to continue parenting in the ways that you believe. And may I have the same.

My child is not going to die because I don't use a harness.. but I agree with the second part. Those who harnesses work for should use them. They are so cute!! and some kids seems to THRIVE with the use of them. If they dont work for you, don't use them. No big deal. And if someone barks at you the only person who will look foolish is them!


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
I heartily agree that different things work for different moms. But does that open the door for say washing your LO's mouth out with soap? Does that apply to spanking(some say it really works for _them_. How about time outs? How about taking favorite toys away? How about weaning your LO at 8 months because they "really like the independence of holding the bottle on their own" (yes, my SIL said that to me)?

I just think yes, there are different ways to do things, this, to me, is not an acceptable one.

I hear you there. I dont agree that harnesses are unacceptable, but you are right we all have a place where we draw the line on what we view to be acceptable or unacceptable. For me, its unacceptable when its something that hurts or disrespects a child. For that reason, allowing a child to use a harness because that is the child's preferred method of safety, and the parents need for their child to be safe is met, is in no way disrespectful or demeaning. just my opinion









Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
Then, certainly, don't use one for your child. I wouldn't think of forcing you to, or calling you a bad mom because you don't.
We obviously approach things very differently. I don't consider parents who spank or wash kids mouths out with soap or take their kids toys away or wean early to be bad parents for those choices. Just parents who are making some choices that may be different than the choices I make for my own children.

I doubt that those people who don't have kids with major sensory issues can accurately answer that question, not having a clue as to what it means to be in that situation. I'm in agreement with you, however.

I would totally think someone who willing spanks and chooses to spank and prefers spanking (and washing a mouth out with soap) as parents who are abusing their children.

As for the sensory issue, my son has very severe sensory issues, so I can relate!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
lotusdebi---I agree. Unless you live day to day with sensory issues you really can't give advice to a mom who does. I try to live an AP lifestyle but....it was a choice of either confining ourselves indoors or wearing a cute monkey that my daughter loved and go out and about. It was for her safety.

There were days she refused to wear it, but there are days she refuses to wear clothes! On those days we rearranged our plans.

I have never FORCED her to wear it. It was never used as a punishment. It was strictly safety.

She loved being a big girl walking me and the monkey.

AWE. I agree







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
I know I differ from many with my definition of AP. For me, it's not a matter of doing things from a checklist. It's about meeting your child's needs. One example: for some children, cosleeping is counter-indicated; it's not good or healthy for them. Forcing them to cosleep in such a situation is, IMO, counter to attachment parenting. You're not meeting their emotional or physical needs by cosleeping, you're just checking something off a list from a book. Kids are all different, and they need different things. To not recognize that is to deny a child what's in their best interest.
In other words, I don't think that using a harness is not AP. I think it's perfectly AP if it's what's indicated for that particular child. Just like using a sling is AP for some children, and not for others. It's about the child, not a list.
But, I know that many people are very invested in that list, and would disagree with me on this.

I agree with what attachment parenting means to you is the same way I look at it.


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## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
I don't think strollers are that horrible after a child is older, but for babies a sling brings a child closer to mama and a stroller encourages separation.

I carried my son in slings and mei tais and SSCs for quite a long time. I still carry him quite often. I know they bring babies closer. They are also confining.







Your child is not free and is strapped in- yes, close to you- but they are confined.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dandelionkid* 
It all depends on how the leash is used. For a short-time, in particular circumstances I doubt anyone would have a problem with it. If it is being used on a daily basis, long-term - that's when it seems parenting is being replaced with convenience. Maybe the convenience would be worth it to me if I had a "runner" but my ideal would be to teach and direct and interact with my child to develop their self-control and listening/safety skills. Regular usage of a leash seems like it could hinder this development. My







:

I can see how harness users could look at it the way I look at co sleeping. when my children are ready to sleep on their own, they will let me know. I don't have to "teach" them how to sleep alone for them to "learn" how to sleep alone









Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
I would still like to hear some responses to my earlier posts?

Just wondering if having to stay home or in safe places is more or less confining than a monkey backpack to go new fun places?

Also wondering if any of the moms against harnesses have children with sensory issues?


1) yes, staying home would be more confining then a monkey back pack. Though something to be considered if your child doesn't like a monkey back pack, because then to them, the backpack may be viewed as more confining.

2) I used to be against harnesses and I have a child with severe sensory issues. What changed was not my experience, but my ability to understand and use compassion. I feel confident I can do what I need to do without a child harness. at the same time, I dont think they are evil, and I'm not completely closed off to using one, I would just prefer not to, but I sense that is because my child would hate it. Perhaps those against it have a hard tim imagining a child loving one? I know they can though


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## jljeppson (Jul 18, 2004)

Replying to the question about sensory issues, I have a child that is not fond of being touched. He can instigate contact, but unless it's tickling (and he has to be in the right mood for that) he doesn't really want contact (especially if not a family member). For him the stroller and harness were (and stroller still occasionally is) a good compromise. He could see what was going on and could have some freedom without having to constantly touch someone, and I didn't have to worry about him taking off. Which he would have done, and still sometimes does even at almost 6.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:

passive-aggressive?
Who said anything about PASSIVE?

Also, for those of you who have managed children as nannies, give me a break. Of COURSE other people can get my daughter to hold their hands. Not me. They just have to ask her. I can ask, cajole, beg, give incentives, explanations- but while my daughter learns to stay with me (it took her about six months to stop slamming her fingers in the drawer, a really painful consequence, so I'm counting on a year or two for the running out into the street unless she gets hit by a logging truck), what am I supposed to do?

Everyone here against leashes or restraints (and incidentally, from age one on, my daughter herself seemed to view the podaegi as a cruel restraint and the stroller as a toy, now she only occasionally wants to be worn but she begs to be pushed in the stroller daily) is saying "teach your child to stay with you". Well, how are we supposed to do that? Stay inside for a year? What about the meantime?

Nobody is saying, use these all the time, for months. They are just like anything else- a carrier, a stroller, a hand- that helps you keep your child safe in specific situations. They are a SAFETY measure, not a pedagogical tool.

I personally think diapers on children are demeaning, but you won't hear me telling people who have late potty learners that they have somehow done something wrong, that their children are suffering, that if they were sufficiently attached baby would intuit the social and hygenic norms for potty-learning earlier, and that they should just stay inside until child can leave the house without a diaper. To me, this is a similar issue. Some children just NEED a diaper, or a leash, or whatever, for us to live in a world where we can't leave children behind with mom or MIL when we go out to do shopping, or for activities like swimming or fairs or whatever.

Let's not pretend we live in this fairy-tale "People of the Forest" scenario. Modern life requires modern solutions.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 







: Would the hand-holding advocates do a little experiment? Spend an hour with your hand up in the air. I think you will find it rather uncomfortable.

YEppers. I'm 5'10" and most of that is leg, DH is 6' tall. I do think that was a big part of DS's issue with handholding.

Plus, like I said, he wanted to be carrying his own things. And I didn't want to be carrying his worms and sticky pinecones for him!


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
I can see how harness users could look at it the way I look at co sleeping. when my children are ready to sleep on their own, they will let me know. I don't have to "teach" them how to sleep alone for them to "learn" how to sleep alone









1) yes, staying home would be more confining then a monkey back pack. Though something to be considered if your child doesn't like a monkey back pack, because then to them, the backpack may be viewed as more confining.

2) I used to be against harnesses and I have a child with severe sensory issues. What changed was not my experience, but my ability to understand and use compassion. I feel confident I can do what I need to do without a child harness. at the same time, I dont think they are evil, and I'm not completely closed off to using one, I would just prefer not to, but I sense that is because my child would hate it. Perhaps those against it have a hard tim imagining a child loving one? I know they can though










There were days that using the monkey backpack was not an option...my daughter didn't feel like wearing it so we did something else on those days.

BUT normally it was a joy for my daughter to wear it!


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

I totally think its great you were tuned in - and willing to do what was necessary on a day to day basis for your daughter. So many parents are looking for one answer, and you seem to have embraced that there is more thn one answer. Your daughter had different needs on different days and you respected that. That is totally admirable







Honestly its something I have a very hard time with - which is why it has been helpful for me to start focusing on my child instead of looking for some kind of xyz answer ya know (instead of thinking no backpack or always a back pack - more like what you do... meeting your child's need - whether that be a back pack one day but not the next)

anyway, imo you definitely have a one up in that area. Your daughter is very blessed to have you. It's obvious you feel the same about havng her


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
What I dont like in this thread is those who are "pro-harness" trying to make it sound like other options aren't as good or are in fact bad

Look back through, the first few remarks about other options being bad are posters sharing what they replied to people who got mouthy about their choice.

Later comments about "well other option isn't that great either" came after posts about the harness option being evil.

You've been saying "I didn't need it with my kids, and I don't think it would work with them, but I can see where other people would use it and am glad it works well for you." Other people have been saying it's demeaning and like washing a child's mouth out with soap.

So there's some defensiveness involved.

BTW,







your posts.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Only if the child feels it is. But for a lot of children, they get what they want - a bit more freedom to wander - and the parents get what they want - safety. The only two people who get a vote are the parent and the child involved. If either of them don't like it, it's a no-go, but if they both like it, then yay!

Really, this answered it all.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Look back through, the first few remarks about other options being bad are posters sharing what they replied to people who got mouthy about their choice.

Later comments about "well other option isn't that great either" came after posts about the harness option being evil.

You've been saying "I didn't need it with my kids, and I don't think it would work with them, but I can see where other people would use it and am glad it works well for you." Other people have been saying it's demeaning and like washing a child's mouth out with soap.

So there's some defensiveness involved.

BTW,







your posts.

I saw that







I totally understand where the defense is coming from, but just suggesting one to realize that saying these things might also be hurtful to those who aren't bashing harnesses. As Katie Byron wisely states: The first act of war is defense









I admit to being very close minded to harnesses previously. I am a different person today then a year ago. I realize that all the women here who are bashing harnesses may one day feel differently. It wont be because I told them their way is wrong though


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
It wont be because I told them their way is wrong though









True enough. But it's hard when people don't seem to want to listen to "it makes my child happier."

Hmm, there's an interesting off-topic thought... cross-posting.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

I totally understand







can I say I've felt like bashing my head into a wall over just that same things recently!!


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
I saw that







I totally understand where the defense is coming from, but just suggesting one to realize that saying these things might also be hurtful to those who aren't bashing harnesses. As Katie Byron wisely states: The first act of war is defense









I admit to being very close minded to harnesses previously. I am a different person today then a year ago. I realize that all the women here who are bashing harnesses may one day feel differently. It wont be because I told them their way is wrong though









Honestly I don't think anyone said the other ways are wrong. I know I personally was pointing out that all the "good" methods of keeping kids safe (as defined by those who attacked harnesses) have their downsides as well. That's not the same as saying they're wrong.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

I was referring to comments like this:

My kid is up and walking. Yours is strapped with a 5-point harness to an inanimate object with wheels. Which of these things is more demeaning?"

imlying a stroller is deamning... there were other negative references throughout as well. Which I understand was said in defense. I am on the "pro harness" side of this conversation.

Thank you for understanding where I was coming from sapphire chan.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
I was referring to comments like this:

My kid is up and walking. Yours is strapped with a 5-point harness to an inanimate object with wheels. Which of these things is more demeaning?"

I thought you were.







But notice that it was offered up as something to say to a person who "gave her crap" about using a harness. Not as something that applies to all stroller use.

Answering disrespect with disrespect isn't the best thing, but I know how it is to be a bit anxious that someone will say something cruel. There's a tendency to come up with the most cutting response possible.

And the cutting response often has nothing to do with how one feels about a subject in general.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

It was asked earlier what parents did before harnesses.

A number of people already shared about leading strings, which came long before anyone thought of strollers.

Other options:
Live in a place where dashing off generally didn't cause harm (as long as the adults had been vigilant about keeping the local predator population at bay)

Force the child to hold their, or a nursemaid's, hand at all times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursemaid%27s_elbow

Watch as their child got trampled under a horse's hooves.

Wear/carry their child in all dangerous situations.

Have children who just naturally stay close better.

Run after their child.


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## krystyn33 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
The only two people who get a vote are the parent and the child involved. If either of them don't like it, it's a no-go, but if they both like it, then yay!

ITA. Well said.


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## harmonyhobbit (Sep 16, 2008)

i got a backpack with a lease for my then 2.5 yr old to use while travelling. He loves it. He would ask me to put it on him all the time. It's perfect for crowded places and keeps him safe. not damaging at all.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Btw, I never wore one as a child, but remember a number of times as an older child (7-10) where it would've been nice to have a string or something to hold onto while following my parents' shoes around a store. You know that horrible moment when you say "Mommy, can we...?" to the person in front of you and they're a complete stranger?


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
I thought you were.







But notice that it was offered up as something to say to a person who "gave her crap" about using a harness. Not as something that applies to all stroller use.

Answering disrespect with disrespect isn't the best thing, but I know how it is to be a bit anxious that someone will say something cruel. There's a tendency to come up with the most cutting response possible.

And the cutting response often has nothing to do with how one feels about a subject in general.

Yes I absolutely did notice it. Thats why I said this:

I totally understand where the defense is coming from, but just suggesting one to realize that saying these things might also be hurtful to those who aren't bashing harnesses. As Katie Byron wisely states: The first act of war is defense

I admit to being very close minded to harnesses previously. I am a different person today then a year ago. I realize that all the women here who are bashing harnesses may one day feel differently. It wont be because I told them their way is wrong though

I think I was bein confusing because I was addressing Guild, but thanking you again for understanding what I was saying in the same thread


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

When people say things to me in real life such as "Is he comfortable in that thing" (sling)
Me: Yes very. Thats why he is sleeping. Just 10 minutes ago he can crawling high speed to me and put his arms up because he was excited to get in it when he saw me putting it on.

Another sling comment: He looks uncomfortable.
Me: No he's not.
or
Me: Oh, he does? (walk away)
or
Me: Okay. (talk to someone else)
..sometimes they interupt me to tell me again.
Me: Thank you. (continue talking to someone else)

I do understand why one would want to use a flippant remark in those situations though! I just say for me personally I never found it particularly useful, other then to have a "funny joke" to tell my like minded friends later







sometimes I say to my friends "I should have told that lady (insert flippant remark here) and it feels just as good, if not better, then had I actually said it to the person. I get anxiety easily though, so I think using remarks like that in person would also make me feel unsettled, aside from just not being useful in my life.


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## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Force the child to hold their, or a nursemaid's, hand at all times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursemaid%27s_elbow

My middle child had an episode of nursemaid's elbow just from playing the "hold his hands and swing them over the puddle"







It was excruciating for him and for me as mama to have to sit with him, in pain, in waiting rooms and watch while the dr. snapped his elbow back in place (it was Sunday and we had to go through a couple of waiting rooms before we found someone comfortable with performing this procedure on a toddler.)

We have been VERY careful with handholding ever since. I can totally see how a toddler suddenly trying to pull away from an adult's hand could wind up with nursemaid's elbow.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Draupadi* 
Leashes and harnesses for children are not new. The Victorians used to use them. The harnesses/leashes were sewn into the clothes.
Keeping your child safe by some sort of restraint is common in many cultures. That's what babywearing is, isn't it? We wear mei tais, slings, wraps, etc. Why is that different? Our child is being restrained. Although we don't like to think of it in that way, that's what it is.
Ultimately, these things were made to keep our children safe. Where is the harm in that?

Well, the victorians are definately not my rolemodels!

I have lived in Africa, never one time saw a mother with her child "tethered" in any way and doubt that there is a history of "tethering" there at all.
I have lived in Hawaii and truely never saw a child "tethered" there either and also doubt there was ever a tethering trend there.
When in Englad and France and Holland I never saw any children on leads, either.
Actually went to a festival yesterday that was huge....no tethered children. Lots and lots of kids having a good time, but none on leashes!

I'm just not buying it that this a normal thing that has it's accepted place in society.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

LilyGrace said:


> I love children. I adore them, and agree that they need to be given the independence they are ready for.
> 
> By restricting our choices, I'm not respecting the child.
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
When people say things to me in real life such as "Is he comfortable in that thing" (sling)
Me: Yes very. Thats why he is sleeping. Just 10 minutes ago he can crawling high speed to me and put his arms up because he was excited to get in it when he saw me putting it on.

Another sling comment: He looks uncomfortable.
Me: No he's not.
or
Me: Oh, he does? (walk away)
or
Me: Okay. (talk to someone else)
..sometimes they interupt me to tell me again.
Me: Thank you. (continue talking to someone else)

I do understand why one would want to use a flippant remark in those situations though! I just say for me personally I never found it particularly useful, other then to have a "funny joke" to tell my like minded friends later







sometimes I say to my friends "I should have told that lady (insert flippant remark here) and it feels just as good, if not better, then had I actually said it to the person. I get anxiety easily though, so I think using remarks like that in person would also make me feel unsettled, aside from just not being useful in my life.

Ye-eeesss.... but "giving crap", to me, isn't that sort of remark.

To continue your sling example, it'd be things like "Ugh, how can he breath in that? That looks SOOO uncomfortable, I'd never do that to MY child."

Or in the harness case,
"Those things are just WRONG. You're demeaning your child!"

Or, more likely, given the examples in the "worst/stupidest" thread in Parenting, the person would talk to the air "There's another one of those lazy parents. Glad I never felt the need to demean MY child like that."


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## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

I have a couple of questions:

I read the analogy about comparing harnesses to washing mouths with soap. To be honest, I don't understand the comparison. Can someone who holds this idea please elaborate for clarification? To me, washing a mouth with soap is 1) a form of punishment, and 2) done against the child's will. If a child does not mind using a harness, how is this comparable? Also, if the argument is that using leashes is arcane the same way that washing a mouth out with soap is arcane, then this likewise seems inapplicable because modern life (with it's traffic, congested streets, fast cars, etc.) is acutely more dangerous than life even a hundred years ago. It seems to me, then, that there would be a greater need for restraining devices in modern life than previously, as is apparent by the number of strollers, car seats, and even slings that one sees each day. So far, I agree with the idea that harnesses can provide a great deal more freedom than other restraining devices in situations in which safety is in jeopardy.

Also, I'm confused why people feel that leashing is demeaning. Is it simply because dogs are leashed? Would you feel the same way if leashes were never used for animals? I'm asking simply because I don't understand the ideology behind these absolutist views. If you could elaborate more on WHY you feel these are demeaning, that would help a great deal in being able to understand your point of view.

As I said, I'm merely trying to understand this side of the argument more fully.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
Well, the victorians are definately not my rolemodels!

I have lived in Africa, never one time saw a mother with her child "tethered" in any way and doubt that there is a history of "tethering" there at all.

How much traffic?

And there is a history there of slinging children when doing tasks that need close attention. And of having some people watch the children while others do other tasks.

Yep, it is better to have a community of friends and family who can be trusted to do things the same way as you (or close enough not to worry), but I don't see why you're criticizing everyone who doesn't have that.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Ye-eeesss.... but "giving crap", to me, isn't that sort of remark.

To continue your sling example, it'd be things like "Ugh, how can he breath in that? That looks SOOO uncomfortable, I'd never do that to MY child."

Or in the harness case,
"Those things are just WRONG. You're demeaning your child!"

Or, more likely, given the examples in the "worst/stupidest" thread in Parenting, the person would talk to the air "There's another one of those lazy parents. Glad I never felt the need to demean MY child like that."

Them: "Ugh, how can he breath in that? That looks SOOO uncomfortable, I'd never do that to MY child."
Me: He's very comfortable, (if I feel like educating I may add)and being in a supported upright position actually helps their air flow more then other forms of toting baby around.

Them: "Those things are just WRONG. You're demeaning your child!"
Me: (waking away as child skips along gaily) of saying to child "do you prefer to wear your monkey back pack or ride in the stroller" child says backpack I say "Okay, I respect that"

Them: "There's another one of those lazy parents. Glad I never felt the need to demean MY child like that."
Me: (nothing. they aren't talking to me.)


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Since there seems to be a bit of "I never had to use them" boasting from the few people who disapprove of harnesses, can I ask if you fear that people will assume that a parent who uses a harness can't control their children?

I think it's a bit like the difference between child-proofing and saying "no" all the time.

I don't think it's boastful to have basic principles that you choose to uphold, lik not wanting to be a parent that leashes her child.

And I have not childproofed our house, and again I try not to say "no" unless it's really important and we haven't really run into one of those really important things yet, in the house anyway. I just show dd how to handle certain things, what to do, what not to do. No, it's not perfect, but in my outlook it's the ideal. We do have a "playroom" where its anything goes.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

that works for you.

what works for other people is respecting their child's preferene to wear a monkey back pack.

I posted this in the other thread but I'll post it here too:

I am curious for those who say its demeaning, if your child said

"mom im not a baby! I dont want to go in the stroller.sling anymore! holding hands hurts my arms and makes my hand sweaty! Cant I PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE have one of those monkey back packs like that kid at the zoo had the other day?"

what would you do? what would you say? Would you say

"No I think they are deamning! No child of mine is going to wear a monkey backpack. Jsut wipe the sweat off on your jeans if you hand is sweaty. If you don't like the stroller then don't run off and you wouldnt have to ride in one!"

??

You are free to have your own outlook and ideal, but I don't think anyone who respects their child's wishes as someone whose ideal are '"less than"


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua* 
I have a couple of questions:

I read the analogy about comparing harnesses to washing mouths with soap. To be honest, I don't understand the comparison. Can someone who holds this idea please elaborate for clarification? To me, washing a mouth with soap is 1) a form of punishment, and 2) done against the child's will. If a child does not mind using a harness, how is this comparable? Also, if the argument is that using leashes is arcane the same way that washing a mouth out with soap is arcane, then this likewise seems inapplicable because modern life (with it's traffic, congested streets, fast cars, etc.) is acutely more dangerous than life even a hundred years ago. It seems to me, then, that there would be a greater need for restraining devices in modern life than previously, as is apparent by the number of strollers, car seats, and even slings that one sees each day. So far, I agree with the idea that harnesses can provide a great deal more freedom than other restraining devices in situations in which safety is in jeopardy.

Also, I'm confused why people feel that leashing is demeaning. Is it simply because dogs are leashed? Would you feel the same way if leashes were never used for animals? I'm asking simply because I don't understand the ideology behind these absolutist views. If you could elaborate more on WHY you feel these are demeaning, that would help a great deal in being able to understand your point of view.

As I said, I'm merely trying to understand this side of the argument more fully.


I was the one who talked about washing mouths out with soap and so forth and I wasn't really comparing that to leashing ones child, I was more saying this is a list of ridiculous things people do to children all the while thinking they are doing something right as a a parent, but none the less things I would not feel good about doing.

I can't say to what extent leashes being used for dogs has colored my view of them being used for children because I haven't lived in a world where they weren't used for dogs so my thoughts would be mere speculation.

And yes, unfortunately we do live in a much more complicated world today than that of people living only 100 years ago, but to me that does not mean I have get out there and try and keep up and force my young dd to try and keep up, too. It more to me means that I try and foster a peacful environment for her and a quieter day for her for right now, at this tender age, when staying close to home is a lovely prospect in her mind. I know one day staying close to home won't satisfy her like it does now.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

I am okay staying home. I have no desire to "keep up" My daughter however, NEEDS to get out of the house. I have to go outside my comfort zone sometimes to meet that need for her. Thankfully she isn't a darter, but if she was, and she didnt like the stroller or sling (which she does) and she didnt want to hold my hand (which she does) but if those things were true and she said "mom why cant I just wear a monkey back pack like that kid at the zoo" then I would totally get her a monkey back pack so I could continue to meet HER need to get out of the house.

what would you suggest to a parent who has a DD like mine whose child is also a darter and WANTS to wear the monkey back pack? I cant see it as demeaning, only respectful.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

While I do believe in CLParenting, I don't do everything my child wants simply because she wants it done. That would include not buying a monkey backpack simply because she saw one on another child and thought she wanted one.
She thinks she wants to drink wine out of the glass grandma drinks out of at dinner, but that doesn't mean I have to "respect" her wishes and say "go for it". When my dd is old enough to think she wants a cell phone and LOTS of other kids her age have one will I just jump on the bandwagon because she tells me to? Um, nope, not a chance, that will depend on her maturity level and what I think she is ready for. I'm the mom, I make the decision ultimately about what is going to be going on. To me there is a big difference between CLP and respecting your LOs needs and just doing whatever they want because they see some other kid with something and think it might be cool. That will not be the precedent in this house hold.

Now on the issue of "darting". I think my dd might actually be a darter. I do have to keep up with her pace if I choose to put her in a situation where there are lots of other people around etc. I mostly choose to hang out in our backyard or over at Grandma's house where the horses are because those are age appropriate safe places for us to be where she can explore her surroundings untethered. Grandma's house is in a forrest, there is a pond and a stream and lots of bluffs and I do have to be vigilant, but I don't think that is beyond my job as a mom.

Ultimately it just goes against my whole philosphy as a mom to leash my child. You won't convince me that it has it's place. Of course you are free to make your own choice for your family, I just don't have to agree that it's a good one.


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## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
Well, the victorians are definately not my rolemodels!

I have lived in Africa, never one time saw a mother with her child "tethered" in any way and doubt that there is a history of "tethering" there at all.
I have lived in Hawaii and truely never saw a child "tethered" there either and also doubt there was ever a tethering trend there.
When in Englad and France and Holland I never saw any children on leads, either.
Actually went to a festival yesterday that was huge....no tethered children. Lots and lots of kids having a good time, but none on leashes!

I'm just not buying it that this a normal thing that has it's accepted place in society.

Never said the Victorians were role models, but they did sometimes have their children on leashes.

In your travels, did you see people wearing their babies in Bjorns, slings, mei tais, wraps, back packs, pouches, etc?
If you did, then the child was being restrained, right?

I sincerely don't get why people believe that harnesses are so bad. Most say because they "look bad". If a child is being kept safe then what is the big deal? Seriously. I personally could care less what anyone thought as long as my child is safe. When he is harnessed, he is moving around and exploring safely. There is more independence for a child in a harness than there is for one being worn.
And to repeat- I still wear my very large 2 year old. I have nothing against baby wearing since I still do it.
I hardly even use the harness (I've had it for almost a year and have probably used it all of 5 times) but you can be certain I'll be using it at the airport in 2 weeks so my son can move around but still be safe.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
I am okay staying home. I have no desire to "keep up" My daughter however, NEEDS to get out of the house. I have to go outside my comfort zone sometimes to meet that need for her. Thankfully she isn't a darter, but if she was, and she didnt like the stroller or sling (which she does) and she didnt want to hold my hand (which she does) but if those things were true and she said "mom why cant I just wear a monkey back pack like that kid at the zoo" then I would totally get her a monkey back pack so I could continue to meet HER need to get out of the house.

what would you suggest to a parent who has a DD like mine whose child is also a darter and WANTS to wear the monkey back pack? I cant see it as demeaning, only respectful.

And are you implying that your daughter actually has a _need_ to go to the zoo and stuff like that? Because I don't even think she would know what a zoo was if you hadn't introduced it to her.
Are you also saying that there are no safe, age appropriate places to be outside the house with your LO to fill her need of being out safely while maintaining a leashfree relationship with her?


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## MonAmiBella (Sep 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
Well, the victorians are definately not my rolemodels!

I have lived in Africa, never one time saw a mother with her child "tethered" in any way and doubt that there is a history of "tethering" there at all.
I have lived in Hawaii and truely never saw a child "tethered" there either and also doubt there was ever a tethering trend there.
When in Englad and France and Holland I never saw any children on leads, either.
Actually went to a festival yesterday that was huge....no tethered children. Lots and lots of kids having a good time, but none on leashes!

I'm just not buying it that this a normal thing that has it's accepted place in society.

My husband is French and remembers being on a leash while his younger brother was in a pram. He's 34, BTW. My SIL has a leash for my nephew who's almost 3. I've seen many kids with them while we're n France.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

no, my daughter has a need to get out of the house. doesnt matter where we go. she likes to go grocery shopping with me. she likes to go for car rides. she likes to go for a walk around the block. she just likes to ge OUT of the house.

my dd doesnt want to be "confined" now I dont use a leash with her because she is okay with allthe alternatives. We are not talking about letting child do something unhealthy (drink a bottle of wine) or have a "possession" we are talking about being open to use a harness in the same way we are open to using a sling or a stroller or holding hands.

It's not something that would be dangerous (drinking wine) or something that is solely to fit in (a cell phone because everyone else has one) its about WHICH form of SAFETY you will use that is respectful towards the child. It would be like if you were okay with your child having a cell phone, and she wanted one that costs $20 and you were going to buy her the one that costs $40, but not willing to buy the $20 one because it was red and you think red is demeaning and she should have a blue one, (my mother did last march to my sister with an ipod docking station - my sister wanted a red one and my mom wanted her to have a black one but there wasnt a black one in my moms price range so my sister couldnt have any even though my sister didnt care that the red one wouldnt match her blue and white room - although, in actuality it would - no sense really) so you won't let her have THAT one, and you think any parent who does is demeaning their child, when in atuallity they are respecting their child individuality. Parent wants child to stay safe, parent is open to the childs suggestion on how to accomplish that. You may not AGREE with it, or LIKE it, but its not demeaning. It's respectful.


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## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MonAmiBella* 
My husband is French and remembers being on a leash while his younger brother was in a pram. He's 34, BTW. My SIL has a leash for my nephew who's almost 3. I've seen many kids with them while we're n France.

I saw a few when I was in Scotland last year, and my MIL, who is Scottish, says people used them all the time. She used them in the 70's with DS, his sister, as did my own mother. I have no memories of being harnessed, but my mother did harness my brother and I. Believe it or not, I'm pretty independent and normal. She's Korean, btw.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 

Ultimately it just goes against my whole philosphy as a mom to leash my child. You won't convince me that it has it's place. Of course you are free to make your own choice for your family, I just don't have to agree that it's a good one.

so don't do it. And the choice in my family is NOT to use a harness, but I'm not close minded about it either. I am able to see that what there is no place for in my family there may be a place for in another family. It's not demeaning for one parent to give their child respect in an area you would choose not to because you would see it as spoiling to give the child what they want (the harness)... perhaps you think letting a child wear a harness is spoiling, based on what you said, but demeaning? no.

demeaning: definitions:
*causing awareness of your shortcomings (wanting to use a harness is not making a child any more aware of their inability to stay close to the parent then is holding hands, verbally redirecting, or using a stroller/sling)
*Dehumanization is a process by which members of a group of people assert the "inferiority" of another group through subtle or overt acts or statements. (parent is not asserting over the child to wear a harness, child WANTS to wear a harness. I suppose, if anything, by this definition perhaps you feel that using a harness would be demeaning TO YOU not to your child, by respecting your childs desire to use one, that would take away from the superior feelings you have when you dont use one)
*take down: reduce in worth or character, usually verbally (this is not accomplished by respecting the child. If you said "a monkey back pack! what a great idea! you get your freedom and I know you will stay safe! would UPLIFT the child, not demean them)
*demeaningly - humiliatingly: in a humiliating manner (child isnt humiliated, so child is demeaned. again perhaps you would feel humiliated, then it would be demeaning. or perhaps YOUR child would feel humiliated, in which case we all agree it would be demeaning. the parents here who have used them have children who are happy to use them, and DONT feel humiliated, and therefor THEY are not being demeaned. )

However by many of these definitions one could say YOU are demeaning the people use harnesses.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Draupadi* 
Never said the Victorians were role models, but they did sometimes have their children on leashes.

In your travels, did you see people wearing their babies in Bjorns, slings, mei tais, wraps, back packs, pouches, etc?
If you did, then the child was being restrained, right?

I sincerely don't get why people believe that harnesses are so bad. Most say because they "look bad". If a child is being kept safe then what is the big deal? Seriously. I personally could care less what anyone thought as long as my child is safe. When he is harnessed, he is moving around and exploring safely. There is more independence for a child in a harness than there is for one being worn.
And to repeat- I still wear my very large 2 year old. I have nothing against baby wearing since I still do it.
I hardly even use the harness (I've had it for almost a year and have probably used it all of 5 times) but you can be certain I'll be using it at the airport in 2 weeks so my son can move around but still be safe.

I just think that a leash is whole-ly avoidable and that avoiding the use of one can't be bad and might actually be the better option. This just goes along with my parenting ideals.

Yes, in Africa moms did wear their LOs... a lot. On the back. And guess what, the child didnt have a choice to be down running around touching things and experiencing things on their own unless they could be trusted to stay close to mom, or even help her doing her tasks. And there certainly weren't trips to the zoo because their LO had to get out of the house and be places other than home. And I did not find these children to be disrespected. In fact just the opposite, I strive to take a page out of the mothers I knew in Africas book. They balanced responsibility, practicality, respect for themselves and their children with teaching their children the when's where's and what's. I often remind myself that respecting my LO does not mean conceding to her wishes/demands or keeping up with societal norms like trips to the park everyday.

And to another poster who wondered if in Africa there were the same things to worry about like traffic.
Yes, there was traffic.
There were also biting baboons, huge black snakes, kidnappers, men with machine guns or swords on horseback......just to name a few things. And don't think that the moms cared less for their LO's safety, either. I just think it would not have occured to them to tether their children to a leash. I think the options were I carry you on my back or you learn to walk beside mommy because that is safe and you need to learn to be safe if you are going to survive. Period. SO...maybe you have the luxury in America to use a leash and no one has told you how silly it is and you think it works great and alls well that ends well.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
And are you implying that your daughter actually has a _need_ to go to the zoo and stuff like that? Because I don't even think she would know what a zoo was if you hadn't introduced it to her.
Are you also saying that there are no safe, age appropriate places to be outside the house with your LO to fill her need of being out safely while maintaining a leashfree relationship with her?

I am. We live in a rural area and there are parking lots everywhere. And my daughter LOVES the zoo. She has a NEED to be out and social with other children and to enjoy new experiences. She just thrives on it. Seriously, not go to the zoo because you have a darter/runner? Seriously?

We do not, as I said, use the leash because she still hates it. Sadly, her inability to hold hands, sit in a carrier, use a leash, etc. etc. really limits how long we can stay places and what I can do with her.







I would love to let her help with shopping but that is a no-go. She runs away.

And I don't have principles like, "No leashes." To me, that is a rule that follows from the principle, "No restraining my child from going where she does not want, ever, no matter what" which is not a principle I have. My principles are simple: Keep my child safe, respect her wishes, help her fulfill her wishes in a safe, loving way, help her learn to do the same for others.

The leash falls into the "safe" category. Because of the "respect her wishes" category, we do not use it if she objects. However, it is sometimes hard to reconcile this with "fulfill her wishes" if her wish is to go to the zoo.

We explained this to her but her 30-month-old brain does not comprehend the safety issues involved in darting into a crowd at a public zoo, and therefore, we have not come to an agreement as to how to deal with that yet.

However, for those that can use the leash, I ENVY you!


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:

Yes, in Africa moms did wear their LOs... a lot. On the back.
Honestly, do you know the infant and child mortality statistics for some countries in Africa? And don't tell me it's all handwashing. Kids fall into the firepit. Kids are stolen.

My child, given the choice between a carrier and the stroller and the leash, would choose the leash. Though, she would scream for all three.

In Africa, you can usually leave the child with another relative at home. Not so here.

Regardless of traffic, the situations are not comparable. Plus maybe they don't have leashes in Africa!

And moreover, I saw a leash used in Asia and everyone was marveling and asking where the user got it. "In New York!" she said, beaming. Ensues discussion of how to make said leash in their own country. ("You can buy buckles at the sewing shop!")


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

the leash is avoidable for my family, and since my child wouldnt like it anyway, it is the better option.

for other families, they could avoid using the leash BUT it wouldnt eb the better option for them and their child, because their child would be happy on a leash but not happy or safe any other way.

just respecting that different children are well, different, and I respect that. I don't find it demeaning, by definition, to allow your child freedom instead of saying "either you do it this way or you dont get to walk around".


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

EdnaMarie said:


> I am. We live in a rural area and there are parking lots everywhere. And my daughter LOVES the zoo. She has a NEED to be out and social with other children and to enjoy new experiences. She just thrives on it. Seriously, not go to the zoo because you have a darter/runner? Seriously?QUOTE]
> 
> Seriously.
> 
> And it's quite the charmed life that you and your child lead that going to the zoo just because she wants to is a way of life.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
the leash is avoidable for my family, and since my child wouldnt like it anyway, it is the better option.

for other families, they could avoid using the leash BUT it wouldnt eb the better option for them and their child, because their child would be happy on a leash but not happy or safe any other way.

just respecting that different children are well, different, and I respect that. I don't find it demeaning, by definition, to allow your child freedom instead of saying "either you do it this way or you dont get to walk around".

Like I said, it is just not the universal truth that children can or even should get to have the ulitmate say. And I don't think thats bad or disrespectful at all. I think you can respect someone and still say there are ways that things must be done. I don't feel disrespected that I don't get to do everything I want to do when I want to do it just because I want to do it. I just relaize that that is a fact of life.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

that is fine that you think that. that is not what this thread is abou really though. its just that is its NOT demeaning to honor your child. perhaps it goes against your philosophy, that is different then it being demeaning to respect a child *in a different way* (by honoring their desire to wear a harness instead of be in a sling for example)

I'm not saying disappointment equates to disrespect, im just saying that respect does not equate to demeaning.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

what is wrong with going to the zoo if you want to?

do you do NOTHING you want to do? I uderstand disappointment but if you and your child want to go to the zoo and you can afford it why is that bad to do? its not unsafe, its not unhealthy - its just one of many enriching experiences. Its not needed to have an enriched life, but it is one way to enrich life. there is nothing wrong with enjoying life. If chooseing to enjoy life instead means your life is charmed then id be happy to be guilty of that.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
Honestly, do you know the infant and child mortality statistics for some countries in Africa? And don't tell me it's all handwashing. Kids fall into the firepit. Kids are stolen.

In Africa, you can usually leave the child with another relative at home. Not so here.

Regardless of traffic, the situations are not comparable. Plus maybe they don't have leashes in Africa!

Fall into the fire pit? I don't even know what that means?

I seriously don't know what the infant mortality rate for some countires in Africa has to do with this discuccion of leashes for children at all.

About leaving your child with another family member, I don't know wher you are getting that idea. I did not encounter lots of mothers leaving their children with their grandmothers to go off and do other things.

And why, regardless of traffic aren't the situations comparable???

Is this discussion only about pampered mothers in America who have the leisure of spending their days at the ZOO?


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
Is this discussion only about pampered mothers in America who have the leisure of spending their days at the ZOO?

Maybe we should have a poll. How many people posting on this thread are living in Africa vs. how many people posting on this thread are living in America and have taken their children to the zoo at least once. Then maybe we'll have a better idea of what population of people we're representing and, thus, primarily discussing.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

hehehe









I'm in america - I take my kids to the zoo.

I've never been to africa, but from what I understand you get to experience wildlife there naturally in a way that, because the societ we DO live in, we can only experience if we went to the zoo.

Perhaps sist has more of a problem with the way american environment is set up, and not so much with the way people operate within that environment?


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
Them:...









Exactly how we should respond. Like I said, it's not the best response to return rudeness for rudeness.

I think you might be a bit too nice to really get this.

"I would've said XYZ" doesn't mean someone believes XYZ.

I'm sorry you were hurt by the remark.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

hehe awe, me too nice, whoever thought I would here that here on MDC. thank you. I am just really working on being more accepting in general - though in person I find it easier not to get defensive because I have confrontation. So basically, in person I have worked on speaking up, but without being rude. In internet world I have to work on not bring rude though... basically, I'm just balancing it all out.

anyway I totally UNDERSTAND why someone would want to be flippant in that situation ... I am just at the point now where I can realize its not useful, other then for making yourself feel better - and if you really feel confident in what you are doing you don't need ot put someone else down, not even in defense.

have you checked out the work by byron katie? its been so helpful for me, but I am still a huge mess of a work in progress


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Nvm. I will follow Super Glue Mommy's example instead.

This just seems an odd topic to choose to accuse dozens of mamas of demeaning their children while at the same time spoiling them.


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## mntnmom (Sep 21, 2006)

I wouldn't use it every day, but I have harnessed my children. With 2 or 3 small children and luggage in an airport, you can't hold everyones' hand. Or a busy city street, or a train platform. Especially when your 2 yr old decides to bolt. And FTR, for some of us, traveling is NOT really avoidable.
It is not a substitute for consensual boundary setting, affection, or parental supervision. A harness is an insurance policy for dangerous situations.
I really don't want my "charmed" children being injured in an avoidable way while engaging in the occasion necessities of our life.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
"I'm a better mom than you because I stay at home all the time." ?

Please clarify.

Come now, this is just silly!


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

I agree, I felt the notion that staying home allthe time somehow makes someone a better mom to be a silly insinuation as well. You were the one who implied it though, not sapphire.. I think she just wanted clarification, in hopes that you didnt really mean it the way it came across.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
I think she just wanted clarification, in hopes that you didnt really mean it the way it came across.

Yes. But I decided that it was better to assume you, Sisteesmama, didn't mean it that way.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

I'm going to drop out of this discussion, i'm sure the OP has enough opinion to make her mind up.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Nvm. I will follow Super Glue Mommy's example instead.

This just seems an odd topic to choose to accuse dozens of mamas of demeaning their children while at the same time spoiling them.

This was the part I was just having a hard time understanding as well. Spoiling by giving child what they want, meaning that you are demeaning them. I am always open to understand another point of view. I cant understand this. I also don't think put downs are necessary in sharing why one doesn't feel comfortable with one practice or another


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
I agree, I felt the notion that staying home allthe time somehow makes someone a better mom to be a silly insinuation as well. You were the one who implied it though, not sapphire.. I think she just wanted clarification, in hopes that you didnt really mean it the way it came across.

Oh please, this is ridiclulous!
I was stating how I do it. I do it that way because it resounds with me as right. I don't spend my time thinking up ways I can do things to be better than someone I never met on MDC! I think this conversation has gone overboard. Evidently no one wanted any honesty unless it contained the words "everything everyother mom does is awesome, I agree with everyone that leashes are the bomb and even if I don't use them and think they are wierd I still love and respect everything everyone else does, viva la leash!"

Sorry, I didn't get the memo until just now!

"Leashes ROCK!"

adios!


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

It's fine that you do it how it works for you. I think the offense came from saying it was demeaning to do it a way different then the way you do it. The implication that there is only 1 right way - yours. I am sorry you are feeling so frustrated, I don't think that was anyone's intent. I think some people were just feeling hurt by certain word choices.


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## ~pi (May 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
And to another poster who wondered if in Africa there were the same things to worry about like traffic.
Yes, there was traffic.
There were also biting baboons, huge black snakes, kidnappers, men with machine guns or swords on horseback......just to name a few things. And don't think that the moms cared less for their LO's safety, either. I just think it would not have occured to them to tether their children to a leash. I think the options were I carry you on my back or you learn to walk beside mommy because that is safe and you need to learn to be safe if you are going to survive. Period.

A surgeon I know has had work funded to do basic surgery in Africa with children who have been injured. Child injury is a major issue there, and sadly does not get nearly the attention that communicable disease does.

I do hear what you're saying, but it's worth considering that context is everything in this discussion. (In fact, I think that's probably true for every discussion about individual choices.)


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## mormontreehugger (Feb 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Btw, I never wore one as a child, but remember a number of times as an older child (7-10) where it would've been nice to have a string or something to hold onto while following my parents' shoes around a store. You know that horrible moment when you say "Mommy, can we...?" to the person in front of you and they're a complete stranger?

Just had to say, I STILL would like something like that! I hate accidentally thinking someone is DH from behind...









As for harnesses, I never had one as a kid, but if I ever did, I'm willing to bet I wouldn't have minded it. I wonder if I have sensory issues sometimes though, because when DH is trying to be affectionate while we're taking a walk and he wants to put his arm around me or hold my hand, I usually prefer not to because I feel.. confined? Like my stride is a little bit 'off' and I can't really relax. Also, when I was kid I'd freak out if anyone touched my head or hair. Still don't like that...

So yeah, I think I would have preferred a harness. I remember seeing them when I was older and thinking how great they'd be for kids in crowded places. Oddly, it never ocurred to me then that they'd be running off. I just read too many stories about abductions... (Anyone ever read The Face on the Milk Carton?)

All that said, I hope to use some CC type stuff during the early years and see if it works for my kids to keep them from growing into runners. But I would never hesitate to use one if it was a mutually agreeable situation.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mormontreehugger* 
Just had to say, I STILL would like something like that! I hate accidentally thinking someone is DH from behind...









Heck, that's what the back of DH's shirt is for. If you ever see a grown man following another one around by holding on to the back of his shirt, it's me.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

This thread is veering off topic. Please return to the original questions posted by the OP.

Also, please refrain from taking a sarcastic tone with each other, regardless of cultural differences. _Everyone_ here is expected to follow the User Agreement:

Quote:

Do not post in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, name-calling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:

And it's quite the charmed life that you and your child lead that going to the zoo just because she wants to is a way of life.
Why else would anyone go to the zoo? Or the nature reserve? Or the park, or the fair? Because you have to?


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

*This thread will have to be closed if the conversation does not return to the original discussion. I do not like closing threads like this so please do not continue responding to posts that are not on topic.*


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
I was referring to comments like this:

My kid is up and walking. Yours is strapped with a 5-point harness to an inanimate object with wheels. Which of these things is more demeaning?"

imlying a stroller is deamning... there were other negative references throughout as well. Which I understand was said in defense. I am on the "pro harness" side of this conversation.

Thank you for understanding where I was coming from sapphire chan.

That was me, and the context is that if I was going to get a comment about my kid's harness being "demeaning" or "bad parenting," I was ready and willing to point out the hypocrisy of saying that to me while their child was strapped into a stroller. I used a bit of Reducto ad Absurdam (calling the stroller an inanimate wheeled object to make that point more clearly.

I like strollers, I used them frequently. I see them as parenting tools just as slings and harnesses are. They have their places, and they have their kids who need or like them. But the general gist of most harness discussions I've gotten into is "OOh, you bad parent! Leashing your child like a DOG! You should TRAIN your child to HOLD YOUR HAND ALL THE TIME! Little Ghennyfyrr here knows she has to hold my hand EVERY MOMENT or its BACK IN THE STROLLER WITH HER!"

(surely you must see the inconsistency and, frankly, hypocrisy in that particular harness criticism. First, that a harness treats a child like a dog, yet the other parent has *trained* their child, second, that strapping the child into the stroller is somehow different than strapping on a backpack. Add to that the fact that the stroller is clearly being treated as a punishment in that example - 'behave, or I'll strap you in!" -- brings out my sarcastic responses).


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

yes I do se the hypocrisy in it. As I said I just dont think it solves anything to be rude to someone who is being rude to you (there is a hypocrisy in that as well, eh?). I definitely dont blame anyone for being annoyed by others rudeness or hypocritcal statements though.


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## skolbut (Feb 18, 2008)

To the OP:
I didn't read all the responses but I did read the last page and I didn't feel like reading through all the nonsense, so if you've gotten this already, sorry.

First of all, your sister isn't raising your children. You are. You are the parent. Just because my sister thinks meat is gross doesn't mean my kids will be vegetarians, kwim??

I won't use a leash bc my mother did to me and I was mortified when I ran into my preschool teacher while we were out once. I wasn't a runner but a certifiable wanderer and I could see having a preschooler, toddler, and newborn being stressful in hindsight.

However, I have a friend with a ds who's a runner. She uses a little backback in the shape of a teddy bear and has a strap that hooks on it. It's cute and great and handy, and she only has to use the leash part when necessary, otherwise her ds has his own waterbottle and snack packed with him, along with emergency info on a card inside it just in case he does get away. That I don't think would be demeaning, it would be a safety item.

For the zoo... I prefer to wear my little one and let my toddler ride in the stroller. Would that be an option for you?? Or I might suggest borrowing an extra from a friend so you have 2 strollers or go pick up a 10 dollar umbrella stroller to use as an extra (then use it to leave at grandparents or a friends or something); or check out the buddy board to hook onto the back of your stroller. Another thing my ds2 is really good at if he insists on walking by himself is hanging onto the side of the stroller. I've also heard of people tying a balloon onto their LO at fairs or zoos or other busy places for easy locating. There's also the gps thingys you can tie onto their shoes that they have in the duracell commercial, but I wouldn't know where to buy one and they're probably expensive.


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## Litcrit (Feb 23, 2009)

What I don't get is WHY the leash per se would be demeaning, more so than other restrictive safety devices, such as hand-holding, strollers or babywearing. It appears to be because there is an association with dogs' leashes.

But there's a good reason for that.

Dogs and tiny tots have many things in common. Though possessed of instincts and intelligence, they don't have the rational capacity to estimate risks or the appropriate behavior in systems made by human adults - such as big city traffic. They have to be controlled from the outside - whether by verbal commands or by physically containing them in some way. Kids outgrow this, (most







) dogs don't.

But even with dogs, you can use a leash with respect of their needs and wishes, as a safety device. When I walked my puppy, I let him wander around, sniff whatever he wanted, stop in the middle of the sidewalk. When we got to the park, I unleashed him. He only felt the leash get taut if he wanted to run out into the street and get hit by a car, or jump on a child. I'd have done the same with my kid, if she wasn't a clingy little thing who won't venture away from me anyway.


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

OP: We have a monkey harness/ leash/ backpack/ whatever. I don't use it much but that's only because I keep forgetting I have it.

DS seems to like it fine and doesn't seem to feel demeaned by it, but he's 2.5, so it's hard to tell.

I was just thinking about trying to use it more because lately he doesn't want to be in the cart at the grocery store, but it's kind of hard to shop with him holding my hand. Since it's a big place, lots of distractions, lots of people, etc., I thought I'd try the monkey-pack to see if he prefers that to being in the cart.

I would say... try it. If you DC doesn't like it, stop! But really, don't worry too much about what people will think, because you can't win. Some people will think it's a great idea and some people will think you're horrible for using it. If it works for you and your situation and your DC is into it, go for it!


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## chipper26 (Sep 4, 2008)

Isn't the alternative more "demeaning," which IMO would be the control your child using less gentle means or force him to stay in the stroller or force him to hold your hand. The hand holding thing is impossible anyway with a stroller. I used to think the same thing about leashes as our sister before I had kids and understood the reality of the situation. Does she think you should spank your LO if they run away? What's her solution? (I should probably go back and read the other posts.)


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## chipper26 (Sep 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gentle~Mommy * 
She said people will 'bark' at him at the zoo, and I would just die, really I would.

Please tell me that won't happen.

To me, this says a heck of a lot more about the person barking than it does about you. I mean, really, an adult taunting a 2-year-old. They'd be the ones who were embarrassed. The backpack leashes are pretty common... I saw some cute ones today at Target.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gentle~Mommy * 
My sister is giving me a hard time, it looks like I am walking a dog when my little guy wears his.

We have been practicing with it around the house because we are going to the zoo next weekend and he keeps running away from us out in pubic







so I want to use it at the zoo to keep him safe. He hates the stroller and his baby brother will be in the stroller anyway.

He loves the harness, it is like a monkey and I hold the tail part.









My sister says it's demeaning to have my child on a leash and will harm him emotionally.







:

Is that true?

I'm going to read the whole thread later. I will say that my dd used a harness for several months (late pregnancy and after my c-section) and if it harmed her emotionally, she hides it well. She's volatile and very sensitive, but she's been that way since birth. She _loved_ the harness, and any time she comes across it, she tries to put it on and play (it doesn't fit her very well anymore). She's also a fiercely independent, very strong personality, so I don't think it damaged her in that way, if that's what your sister is getting at.

And, does your sister have anything to back that up, or is she just talking? There are strong opinions on this one, but I don't think I've ever seen any research, or even any anecdotes, to back up the "they're emotionally damaging" assertion.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

I haven't read the whole thread because I've participated in enough of these threads to know how it went. To the OP, I used a harness with dd1 and she loved it. She is three and doesn't need it anymore, but she still likes to put in on and wear her "backpack" She doesn't appear to be emotionally damaged, no one ever barked at her (I got plenty of parents chasing their children who asked where I got it), and it didn't stop her from learning how to safely walk with me.


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## WC_hapamama (Sep 19, 2005)

To answer the OP, I would much rather some immature fathead bark at my kid than have my child get lost or hurt at the zoo.

My youngest child is a runner, he's fearless and independent. He's taken off on me in busy stores TWICE. After the second time we bought him a monkey backpack/harness that we use when he wants to be able to get out of the cart or stroller and explore. I'd rather use the harness than have anotther heartsick 5 minutes of frantically trying to find my little one. That was the worst feeling in the world.


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## nudhistbudhist (Jan 13, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
Parents who think that since their kid is on a leash, they don't have to pay any attention to what he's actually doing (like in one case I observed at a campsite, where the carefully leashed child was stuffing leaves and sticks in his mouth while his mother chatted away, completely oblivious).

I happen to let my 8 mo eat dirt, sticks, leaves. I don't see why that's such a problem. I believe its part of exploring and connecting with the earth and the earths gifts







:. I find it safer than chewing on plastic toys, or toys covered in chemical paints and lacquers. Germs are good!!!! Chemicals are bad!!!

And a leash is a tool. To be against leashes is to be against hammers. Yes, you can kill someone with a hammer, but you can also build with it


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nudhistbudhist* 
I happen to let my 8 mo eat dirt, sticks, leaves. I don't see why that's such a problem. I believe its part of exploring and connecting with the earth and the earths gifts







:. I find it safer than chewing on plastic toys, or toys covered in chemical paints and lacquers. Germs are good!!!! Chemicals are bad!!!

And a leash is a tool. To be against leashes is to be against hammers. Yes, you can kill someone with a hammer, but you can also build with it









Eating dirt, sticks and leaves can lead to illnesses that kill. And there are other things on the ground I doubt you'd let your 8 month old eat...


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## chipper26 (Sep 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Eating dirt, sticks and leaves can lead to illnesses that kill. And there are other things on the ground I doubt you'd let your 8 month old eat...









: Not all "germs" are good.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
Actually, for our dd, holding our hand was uncomfortable because her hand was up so high over her head!

This is dd in her leash (no monkey backpack, it's a leash) at Yellowstone. I got lots of positive comments about it and no negative ones.

The leash gave her the freedom to walk (which she demanded!), and us the comfort of knowing that she wouldn't walk off into something dangerous. We only used it in big crowds (airports, Yellowstone), when they were in the awful under 3-can't stop-what-I've-started phase of dashing off.

that's the same one we used when the kids were little.
Some leash pointers..don't use one in the hallmark store







I bought one b/c we were traveling by plane. Someone said I should do a trial run so I knew if she liked it.
Stupid me took her to the mall...where she had the freedom to touch and grab everything. (This was many years ago. I am not leashing my 6.5 year old







)
Anyway..the leash is great and really gives freedom. sometimes in a big crowd they still want to explore but it's not safe to run free...hand holding is limiting and can be uncomfortable. Being free is much more fun.
I'll bet not one person gives you a second look at the zoo and I'll bet you'll see a lot more leashes and a lot of smiling happy kids.


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nudhistbudhist* 
I happen to let my 8 mo eat dirt, sticks, leaves. I don't see why that's such a problem. I believe its part of exploring and connecting with the earth and the earths gifts







:. I find it safer than chewing on plastic toys, or toys covered in chemical paints and lacquers. Germs are good!!!! Chemicals are bad!!!

And a leash is a tool. To be against leashes is to be against hammers. Yes, you can kill someone with a hammer, but you can also build with it









I really liked your post. I too don't have a problem with my children ingesting dirt, leaves, and sticks (unless of course we are in an area with poisonous materials or dirt that could be contaminated with sewage or something nasty). And, yes, a leash is a tool that can be misused or used in a way that is great for our children's development mentally, socially, and physically.







:


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treemom2* 
I really liked your post. I too don't have a problem with my children ingesting dirt, leaves, and sticks (unless of course we are in an area with poisonous materials or dirt that could be contaminated with sewage or something nasty). And, yes, a leash is a tool that can be misused or used in a way that is great for our children's development mentally, socially, and physically.







:

Any place with animals means that dirt can contain germs and parasites. It's part of the world we live in. Dispite popular belief, humans are not the "top of the food chain" we do have naturally occuring things that can and do kill us.


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## Lovemy3babies (Apr 23, 2007)

OK, this is just crazy ! I was in a thread like this on another site when pregnant with my twins, and was SO AGAINST leashes. They are mean, demeaning, evil, rude, ugly, ect ect.

Then, I had my 2nd son. And he turned 2. The twins are 3, will walk next to me, NO HANDS and stay right next to me. They listen very very well, dont even test me. Joshua is crazy. He is a darter. HAS NO FEAR. Like to wander, be by himself. Will run in a street like it is nothing. Not even realizing it is a street (he wears glasses and has poor eyesight, maybe that is why?). He hates the stroller. We go to the zoo. He wants to see the animals too, but I can not take my eye off of him for ONE SECOND because he will be gone, and I wont find him, he is that fast. I am a nervous wreck and it just isnt worth the CHANCE that I may be tending to one of my other 3 children for him to have something horrible happen to him.

I bought my monkey harness last week. Used it up north this weekend. He loved it. I loved it. We all loved it. Gives him the freedom he wants (to walk and touch and play), and gives me the safety. He hates to hold my hand, this just works perfect! Now, I can sling my baby, Joshua in the harness, and the twins walking along with me, and no need for anything else! I just love love love it.

ALl kids dont fit in a box. I have done nothing different for Joshua that I have for the twins. My kids are not allowed to misbehave. The twins are so good, so good, but Joshua is not. He is different. Something is going on in his little body, and has lots of tests to see what, but it causes his personality to be very intense. He is up and down and all around. And this is something that really just makes our lives easier, more harmonious and flowing.


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## Disco Infiltrator (Jul 28, 2008)

I personally have decided that tethering my toddler is a last resort option. He's 2 y/o and so far we haven't had to go down that path. FYI, we also rarely RARELY use a stroller. What we do is spend a lot of time talking, and talking, and talking to our son about holding hands with mommy and mama. We talk about parking lots and how big cars can hurt him. We talk about staying on the sidewalk and not going in the street. He hasn't always listened but as he's getting older, he GETS it.

It's not just about encouraging independence, or that I really do feel tethering a kid has an element of being demeaning. It's that DS is an equal and respected member of our family, and I want to respect his voice. I feel that making a decision that he can't live up to our expectations and requests to hold hands and be careful, and tethering him, isn't respecting him. This means DW and I sometimes have to be extra careful and extra vigilant about watching for dangerous situations. If he can't handle a situation or is being too impulsive, I pick him up. Overall, he's stayed safe and I actually trust him.

I still get why people use them and all kids are different. And last year when we went to the fair I would have KILLED for a leash. Argh.

Oh, and I LOVE the zoo because the kid can just run and run and we don't have to worry about cars.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Disco Infiltrator* 
I still get why people use them and all kids are different. And last year when we went to the fair I would have KILLED for a leash. Argh.

Figure out how to use a wrap sling.







They also make a nifty toddler lead for those times when you want to give your kid a chance to be totally impulsive but don't want to have a heart attack every 10 seconds.

Hey, if I need to hold onto dh's hand in some stores to resist dashing off to see things, can't imagine how much harder it'd be with brain development that encourages impulsive exploring.

Makes me think of something general to this thread...


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I've finally figured out what bugs me about the "go in the stroller if you can't hold hands" method. It's punishing a kid for being a kid. Bear with me on this one...

See, the whole reason we do hand-holding, harnesses, etc, is because toddlers are impulsive. They see something and want to go touch it right away. And they'll go straight for it as fast as they can without stopping to think about anything in the way, including cars.

But that impulsiveness also extends to forgetting instructions.

So right when they're most likely to dash off, or even just bend down to see something on the sidewalk, is also when they're least likely to remember to hold hands. Particularly since holding hands is 100% in conflict with the impulse towards action.

So, for me, I see "hold hands or sit in the stroller" as a false choice that sets the kid up for failure. It definitely has its place, but I'd feel very uncomfortable using it as a regular thing unless I had a child with just the right personality.

I also don't like how it enforces a single range of motion. It makes the only acceptable distance right next to me, standing up, when I might be fine with the child being 3 feet away squatting and looking at a flower. (Okay, knowing me, I'd be squatting and looking at the flower too, but let's pretend I've got groceries or something.)

Toddler harnesses are a tool that fills the needs of parents and kids. Just like how you can hammer in any nail with any hammer, but certain hammers are better for different jobs. You have to find what works best for your family for each situation.

As for me, I've been spoiled by babywearing. I'm going to always tend toward the most hands-free option that keeps everyone safe and happy.


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## skolbut (Feb 18, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Figure out how to use a wrap sling.







*They also make a nifty toddler lead for those times when you want to give your kid a chance to be totally impulsive but don't want to have a heart attack every 10 seconds*.

You are a genius!!! I have 2 kids. 2 wraps. Never made the connection. Sometimes I wonder what I'd do without MDC.


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## keilonwy (Dec 4, 2007)

Nope. They are an awesome way to allow your child to explore safely, and as long as doesn't find it demeaning, it isn't. Honestly, does he even notice when you put him into it? I might have found having a monkey on my back (in the figurative sense, not in the common use addiction sense







)pretty fun as a child!

On a personal note, a leash stopped my niece from being hit by cars on multiple occasions, and she loved having the space to explore and experience her world. I think your son would let you know if he didn't like it and it wasn't making stuff pleasant for him to experience, kwim? DN loved getting her leash on, because it meant she could run around safely and wouldn't be forced to hold hands (which she hated) or to be held (which she hated MORE, despite her AP background!).

I say they are awesome for some kids, not so awesome for others, you know your baby and what's working for you!


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
I've finally figured out what bugs me about the "go in the stroller if you can't hold hands" method. It's punishing a kid for being a kid. Bear with me on this one...

See, the whole reason we do hand-holding, harnesses, etc, is because toddlers are impulsive. They see something and want to go touch it right away. And they'll go straight for it as fast as they can without stopping to think about anything in the way, including cars.

But that impulsiveness also extends to forgetting instructions.

So right when they're most likely to dash off, or even just bend down to see something on the sidewalk, is also when they're least likely to remember to hold hands. Particularly since holding hands is 100% in conflict with the impulse towards action.

So, for me, I see "hold hands or sit in the stroller" as a false choice that sets the kid up for failure. It definitely has its place, but I'd feel very uncomfortable using it as a regular thing unless I had a child with just the right personality.

I also don't like how it enforces a single range of motion. It makes the only acceptable distance right next to me, standing up, when I might be fine with the child being 3 feet away squatting and looking at a flower. (Okay, knowing me, I'd be squatting and looking at the flower too, but let's pretend I've got groceries or something.)

Toddler harnesses are a tool that fills the needs of parents and kids. Just like how you can hammer in any nail with any hammer, but certain hammers are better for different jobs. You have to find what works best for your family for each situation.

As for me, I've been spoiled by babywearing. I'm going to always tend toward the most hands-free option that keeps everyone safe and happy.

I agree completely with everything you've said here. Some kids like to ride in a sling. Great! Some kids actually listen when you tell them to stop. Really Great! Some love to hold hands. Wonderful, except when adult's hands are full! Some kids love to roll along in a stroller. It's all good! Others prefer a leash - but why is this the only option that gets so much criticism? Especially if a child actually likes it? When ds1 (the only one I used a tether with) was a toddler, his 1st choice was to run as far as his little legs could carry him in whatever direction he was facing when he hit the ground. He screamed in the stroller, would practically pull his arm out of joint holding hands (and threw my back out when I was newly pregnant with DD doing his freeze and drop routine - that was oodles of fun being immobile with a toddler and seriously limited in what pain relief I could have!), only wanted to be in a sling when he was tired or wanted to nurse, etc. And he loved the tether. He got to explore and I didn't have to chase him. It slowed him down enough that I could keep up. He could see neat things that were more than 6 inches from me. He could even crawl on the ground and pretend to be a dog, barking and wagging his tail, which he though was loads of fun. (so, OP, your child might not get barked at. S/he might bark at people instead.) I didn't use one with DD because she never wandered far from me. She liked to be worn. She would ride in the stroller at places like the (suprisingly disparaged in this thread) zoo. She held hands if I asked her to. It just was never necessary. DS2 was/is a bit of a wanderer, but the couple of times we tried a tether, he wasn't down with it - so we figured other things out (he's not as adverse to hand holding as ds1, was worn longer than him, sometimes enjoys the stroller, etc).


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