# Hitting kids in Arkansas



## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

There is a billboard in Arkansas that says "Use the rod and save your child's life." I posted a thread about it, and was told that, in Arkansas, they are considering bringing corporal punishment back into schools. There's an Arkansas website that has a poll, and 80% are in favor of it.

There MUST be something we can do about this!


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

I think that corporal punishment was fairly popular in the south. I know they had it at our high school. It's up to the parents to stop it from being done.


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## bc1995 (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer* 
There is a billboard in Arkansas that says "Use the rod and save your child's life." I posted a thread about it, and was told that, in Arkansas, they are considering bringing corporal punishment back into schools. There's an Arkansas website that has a poll, and 80% are in favor of it.

There MUST be something we can do about this!

I was unaware that corporal punishment ever left schools in AR. Sad but true. I will be signing a no corporal puishment order when we send our kids to school.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Last time we drove through Arkansas, we stopped to get something to drink and use the restroom. My oldest will never forget it and to this day STILL mentions what we saw. There were 2 women and 3 kids in a car next to us. One of the women was chatting away on a cell phone and there was another woman who the kids referred to as grammy, sitting in the back seat with them. The kids were just being kids....I saw nothing out of the ordinary, when the grandma started yelling at them and said "you'd better shut up and sit in the seat or i'm going to get the fly swatter after you". One of the kids started crying and I kid you not she whipped an actual fly swatter from behind the seat and started slapping him with it. I sat there for a minute just staring. She looked up, we locked eyes for a minute and she stopped and a minute later I see her put the fly swatter in the back seat.
Every so often DS # 1 asks me if I remember the women with the fly swatter.







:

DC


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## Nodtveidt (Dec 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer* 
There is a billboard in Arkansas that says "Use the rod and save your child's life." I posted a thread about it, and was told that, in Arkansas, they are considering bringing corporal punishment back into schools. There's an Arkansas website that has a poll, and 80% are in favor of it.

There MUST be something we can do about this!

They don't even understand the relevance of the quotation..."spare the rod" has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH HITTING YOUR CHILDREN TO KEEP THEM IN LINE. It's a shepherding quotation! The "rod" is a shepherd's crook! In fact, between the same covers of the book lies the quotation "whoso shall offend one of these little ones (children) which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." _Matthew 18:10_. Ironically, I had only heard about this quote from my wife so I looked it up on Google...and actually found it on a Satanic website (people who also don't believe in harming children in any way, and that includes hitting them).


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

The ad campaign itself doesn't even make sense. Spare the rod, save your child's life???







: Save it from what? The ugly bridge trolls that sneak up on unspanked children and carry them off screaming into the night? WTH???







:


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Well, I found out that it refers to the following Bible verse: "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death."


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Apparently other versions of the Bible translate it as: "If thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not surely die. Beat him with the rod and save his soul from death."


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer* 
Apparently other versions of the Bible translate it as: "If thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not surely die. Beat him with the rod and save his soul from death."

That is so totally f'd up. So are we going to start stoning adulteres next? Cutting off the hands of people who steal? Poking eyes out of people who look at someone who is not their spouse?







:


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## Nodtveidt (Dec 21, 2006)

Proverbs 23:13, one of the most mistranslated and misunderstood passages in the Bible.


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## Blue Belle (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman* 
That is so totally f'd up. So are we going to start stoning adulteres next? Cutting off the hands of people who steal? Poking eyes out of people who look at someone who is not their spouse?







:

Ha ha! Seriously!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I can't laugh, because in some countries they *do* still stone adulterers.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer* 
I can't laugh, because in some countries they *do* still stone adulterers.

Believe me, I don't think any of this is funny either, it's sickening.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

I thought it was "He who spareth the rod hateth his child...." Meaning, he who doesn't teach his child hates his child...


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer* 
Well, I found out that it refers to the following Bible verse: "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death."

This is a great link that explains the meaning of that verse: http://parentingbythebook.com/index....WebPageID=9658

I take that verse as scripture and I certainly don't think it means to beat children. In fact violence of any kind is against my Christian religion.

The situation in Arkansas is very sad.


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## Ann-Marita (Sep 20, 2003)

Stuff like this makes Texas look good. Or, at least, better.


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## Ms. B. Sprout (Nov 30, 2006)

I drive by that billboard twice a month when I go visit my parents, and it makes me furious every time.







:

As a side note, I would be really sad to see this thread devolve into Arkansas-bashing. To that end, let me gently point out that (1) misguided fundamentalism is everywhere in this country of ours, and (2) the church/group that put up this billboard does not represent the attitude of my whole state. There are lots of gentle parents in Arkansas, just as there are lots of parents spanking their kids in New Jersey. And California. And Georgia. And Iowa. You get the picture.










Now, that doesn't make this billboard any more palateable. Grrr...


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## fuzzypeach (Oct 28, 2004)

Quote:

As a side note, I would be really sad to see this thread devolve into Arkansas-bashing








:


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## Ann-Marita (Sep 20, 2003)

I apologize if my post was Arkansas bashing. I guess I had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. My husband is from Arkansas, and his family (mother, father, sister) all live there. I've been visiting there regularly since 1980. We get a lot of criticism from his family regarding our parenting decisions - like not spanking, homeschooling, breastfeeding when the baby wanted it, and breastfeeding until my child decided she didn't need it any more.

I'm sorry I made that comment.


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## Ms. B. Sprout (Nov 30, 2006)

No sweat, *Ann-Marita*. No need to apologize. I actually didn't think you were Arkansas bashing so much as I wondered if the thread would head off in that direction, yk?









I know there is a problem here, as in many other places. My mother is an elementary school principal in the Arkansas delta and I know she's paddled kids for two decades now. I thought she was still doing it, frankly. I am not aware of a ban on corporal punishment in AR, but that's not to say there isn't one.

I got paddled when I was in school, and I got spanked at home too. I am SO PROUD to be breaking the generational cycle of hitting kids!

Now about that billboard... if I had all the time in the world, I would like to find out what church/group is putting it up and write them a letter or go visit with them. I would also like to determine which outdoor advertising company found this message to be acceptable and write them a letter. If I had all the money in the world, I would like to rent out the next billboard down and post a suitable scriptural response.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I think what's actually happening is that there is a community within Arkansas which is considering bringing corporal punishment back into schools, which means that there is not a state-wide ban on corporal punishment in Arkansas, or this community wouldn't be able to consider it. It boggles my mind that there are states that still allow corporal punishment in schools. I need to find out how many states there are, and which ones. It's a bad sign that there is a community that is considering going back to it. Instead of progress, things are going backwards.

Corporal punishment in schools has been banned here in New York State since about 1985. My mother is one of the activists who helped bring about the ban. For me, thinking back to when corporal punishment wasn't banned in New York State is like thinking back to the Dark Ages. That's why this really boggles my mind.


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## glendora (Jan 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ann-Marita* 
Stuff like this makes Texas look good. Or, at least, better.

Corporal punishment in Texas was legal in Texas as late as 2001. It probably still is, but I don't know anyone in school there these days.

The superintendent in the district my family went to had one of those boards with the holes drilled into it. The thing had a name, but I forget what it was.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I think I'm going to be ill. Apparently it's still legal in 23 states.

http://school.familyeducation.com/ed...ent/38377.html

Here's a whole page of information:

http://www.stophitting.com/disatscho...l%20Punishment

Here's an organization we can support:

National Coalition to Abolish Corporal Punishment in Schools
155 W. Main St., Suite #1603
Columbus, OH 43215
(614) 221-8829

Here's another article:
http://www.educationworld.com/a_issu...starr051.shtml


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Every industrialized country in the world now prohibits school corporal punishment, except the U.S., Canada and one state in Australia. Here's a chart that shows the years that school corporal punishment was banned in different countries, starting in 1783:

http://www.stophitting.com/disatscho...l%20Punishment


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Almost half of all U.S. states permit schools to hit students.

Arkansas has never banned hitting in schools, so this must refer to one community in Arkansas changing their policy.

Apparently it is also legal to hit special needs students in Arkansas schools.

I have also heard that in Arkansas (and I'm sure other states) minority students are hit in school at a disproportionately higher rate which leads to questions of racially motivated factors in hitting students. Which is very disturbing


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## folkypoet (Apr 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glendora* 
Corporal punishment in Texas was legal in Texas as late as 2001. It probably still is, but I don't know anyone in school there these days.

It was definitely legal up through the mid-nineties when I was in school, and I'll bet it's still legal today. I haven't heard anything about the legislature having changed it, and Texas is a rather backwards state when it comes to things like this.







:


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

It is still legal in Texas. See the link I posted above.


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## lovemybaby (Jun 29, 2003)

Hitting public schoolchildren with wooden boards has always been legal in Arkansas, and still is. Arkansas has one of the worst rates for this type of corporal punishment: 9.1% of students are hit, over 40,000 children per year.

My guess is the billboard is in response to a growing trend to ban this type of punishment. Pennsylvania recently banned school corporal punishment, and Ohio and North Carolina have introduced laws to ban it in those states. So probably the folks who believe strongly in whacking schoolchildren are feeling nervous that their "right" to do so is being threatened and are trying to garner support.

The original poster asked what we can do about this? How about we all write to the Dept. of Education in Arkansas and ask them to ban school corporal punishment: [email protected] I just wrote them.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
Almost half of all U.S. states permit schools to hit students.

Arkansas has never banned hitting in schools, so this must refer to one community in Arkansas changing their policy.

Apparently it is also legal to hit special needs students in Arkansas schools.

I have also heard that in Arkansas (and I'm sure other states) minority students are hit in school at a disproportionately higher rate which leads to questions of racially motivated factors in hitting students. Which is very disturbing









I looked yesterday and unless I misread, every Southern state except VA allows spanking in school. What a sad, child-hating country we live in.

Plus, hooray for my home state!


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## ColoradoMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ann-Marita* 
I apologize if my post was Arkansas bashing. I guess I had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. My husband is from Arkansas, and his family (mother, father, sister) all live there. I've been visiting there regularly since 1980. We get a lot of criticism from his family regarding our parenting decisions - like not spanking, homeschooling, breastfeeding when the baby wanted it, and breastfeeding until my child decided she didn't need it any more.

I'm sorry I made that comment.

FWIW - My family is all in Arkansas, and they are very supportive of the way we raise our children. Dh's family is from Texas and they're the ones that have problems with it. The schools I went to in Arkansas did not allow corporal punishment and there is a push to ban it. Also recently, Arkansas elected Democrats in every statewide election, passed bfing legislation, and made it legal for same sex couples to be foster parents. Arkansas is on the right track - unfortunately, there is a fundamentalist sect who has enough money to pay for a stupid billboard and make the rest of us look like backwoods hicks.


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## Ms. B. Sprout (Nov 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *[email protected]* 
I think this is being blown out of proportion.

I also think it is being blown out of proportion as an Arkansas-specific problem. I don't think it's blown out of proportion at all as a sick facet of this country.

I want to see this "Hitting kids in Arkansas" thread die and a new one take its place: "Let's stop corporal punishment in ALL of America's schools."

It's easy to sit in New England or the Pacific Northwest and pile on a state like Arkansas in the name of "activism." It's a lot harder to live here and AP and NIP and GD and work for change.


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## mike (Sep 5, 2005)

I take that verse as scripture and I certainly don't think it means to beat children. In fact violence of any kind is against my Christian religion.

Then you havnt read your Bible very closly


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## KermitMissesJim (Feb 12, 2004)

So, since I'm moving from a non-CP state to a CP state, will I need to sign a form saying they'd best not lay a hand, much less a board, on my child?


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## lovemybaby (Jun 29, 2003)

To KermitMissesJim, if you're moving to a cp state you can usually request that your child not be "paddled". If so, do it in writing. Make it as official as you can, get a lawyer to review it, tell the school that you will sue if it is violated, etc. I've known of children being "paddled" whose parents had signed papers with the school that their children were not to be hit. Parents try to sue and get nowhere. "Paddling" schools seem to have an incredible immunity.

Schools that hit are just too dangerous to send a child to, IMO. Even if your child escapes being beaten with a board, they might hear a child being beaten, or see their tear-stained face afterward. It could happen to a friend of theirs. It could even happen in class. And it could happen to your child in spite of your best efforts.

If you move to a "paddling" state then if you possibly can send them to a school that does not use hitting as punishment. Or homeschool.


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## jsaunt (Aug 8, 2005)

Reviving an old thread here I know, but I thought I would update you on the CP law in Arkansas.
Corporal Punishment is allowed, although I am not sure at what age it is illegal. The elementary school that I teach in does use CP, HOWEVER, the parent MUST give WRITTEN PERMISSION that the child can be paddled. If a parent doesn't give written permission, the child is suspended, recieves detention, etc...
Just thought I'd let you know the situation in my school in Arkansas.


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## Aeress (Jan 25, 2005)

I have learned that some colleges are teaching that physical punishment is acceptable to correct a behavior.

It saddens me that higher ed is teaching prospective teachers that it is o.k. to hit.

I think it is also important to reach the college level and ban teaching hitting as a way of getting kids to behave.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brendon*
I have learned that some colleges are teaching that physical punishment is acceptable to correct a behavior.

Lovely.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *brendon*
I think it is also important to reach the college level and ban teaching hitting as a way of getting kids to behave.

Amen to that!


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## Earthy Mama (Jun 4, 2004)

Here in SC they still use cp. Well, they leave it up to each district, and mine does...


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## mommyddeville (Nov 28, 2005)

Thank you for the information about states that allow corporal punishment. My DH and I have been considering moving to north Idaho, and this is a very important topic to me. I had NO idea that Idaho still allows paddling.


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## Jenivere (Aug 4, 2003)

I live in Idaho and was not aware that cp was still allowed. I was never paddled but I just asked my husband and he was once in elementry by the principal. He was paddled for getting into a snowball fight because they were trying to throw really big snowballs.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

Note to Self: Stay the hell away from Arkansas.

Secondary note to self: Homeschool if you end up having to live there for whatever unseen reason...


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