# At what age is it not OK for a child to be bare bottomed outside?



## MissSJ (Oct 23, 2005)

My 2.5 yo DS was outside today with nothing on but a t-shirt. The sirt covered half of his butt. I didn't see anything wrong with it but I am used to him running around half dressed.

I started to wonder, _at what age is a child too old to be outside in the front without anything on? Is this appropriate? If the little neighbor girl comes over, is that OK? Would her parents be ok with it? Do my neighbors care?_

I wouldn't care if any of my neighbors young children weren't dressed but I'm not sure at what age I would care. I don't see anything sexual about it or find it gross or anything but at what age is it not ok? I'm not sure so I was hoping I could get some perspective from my fellow MDCers.

BTW, we came in after the little neighbor girl said "hehe look at his butt" and her older brother said "ewww, I don't want to see that". My ds didn't hear them and it wasn't the only reason we came in since it was almost bedtime but it did play a part in it. I didn't want my ds to think there was anything wrong with him being partly dressed.

As always, I'm looking forward to hearing your opinions!
SJ


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

My 3 yo still goes bare bum outside sometimes.


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## TheTruth (Apr 8, 2007)

If in the privacy of your fenced in yard, any age.
Out in public? NEVER.


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## LiamnEmma (Nov 20, 2001)

I think comfort levels are different for everybody, but for me, I became uncomfortable witnessing the discomfort of others (if that makes sense) sometime between 3 and 4. At home, both kids will still run through the house naked and have no modesty about it. They are six and minutes away from turning eight. But it's really just that--running through the house right after dumping all the clothes in the hamper and now on the way to the shower, or from the shower to the room to get dressed. But they pee with the doors open, etc. I guess I'm trying to say that I think they have no shame about their bodies and I'm really glad about that. But we've also stressed with each since about the ages of five years that public nudity is a social taboo in our society and that they are not to answer the front door while naked, doff clothing in the front yard, etc.


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## JBaxter (May 1, 2005)

My 3 1/2 yr old still strips naked to get in the hot tub on our back deck. I see nothing wrong with it but DH thinks it's time for him to stop traumatizing our 8 yr old neighbor girl. She will go in side if she see him in the back yard naked. Last summer when he potty trained he spent alot of time bottomless and she would go running inside ever time.

I feel by next year he will have to stay covered


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

frankly, i'd be more concerned with any adults who could be sex offenders in the community. seems like you can always find one when you type in your address in your state's sex offender database, who lives not that far away or could be driving by, etc. in the privacy of your own backyard is one thing; out in front of the house, you hate to think it but could be setting up for trouble.


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## kkeris (Oct 15, 2005)

Personally, never. I've never let my DD show her bare bottom (or even top if I can help it, so far I usually can) in public. Keeping private parts private is very important to us.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

I've only recently stopped being free about DD1 being bare in front of strangers or outside; she's almost 3. She's slimmed down and no longer looks like a toddler anymore, and I feel like it's time. She still goes outside in nothing but a shirt and underpants or a shirt and a diaper, but DH says he's not cool with even that anymore, so fully dressed it is.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Our general rule is after poty training is complete. that said, when we first started ava peed her pants and we just let her run naked (and since she was in a dress that mean buck naked. (we were at the community garden and had to get sdome work done.) Someone called the cops on us. and they were driving by at least 50 yards from my naked BABY. Police came out. he was so funny. he started out with "I know this is stupid but" . . . . apparently they have to check out every call of this nature and unless i wanted that lady to keep calling and driving by and them having to come talk to me about it (not that they could do anything or force me to do anything since there was laws concerning nakend babies and such) his solution was that her sister give her some ofher clothes so they would both be half dressed and he can say the with confidence the situation is hjandled and the baby is not naked







. her sister was 5 years old. So apparently up through 5 or 6 half naked is at the very least perfectly legal.

my point is some people aparently have strong opinions about this. string enough to call the police.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

I think what someone else said makes sense; once they're trained, nakey time should be limited to the house


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## Kay11 (Aug 30, 2006)

Wow, I'm quite surprised. My 4 year old still runs about naked a lot of the time when it's hot outside. I do encourage him to have his clothes on but he prefers not to when he's in our garden. I hadn't really thought about setting limits at all, I would rather he decide for himself when he's rather keep his private parts more private. He's had other kids come round (slightly oder than he is) who've said something to him, but he's paid them no attention. But then we tend to walk around naked a lot in the house, he bathes with me often, etc so just not a concern here. He's not the type to just strip off at random times, this is limited to our garden, or close friends who have kids the same age, or other family.

And I know this is awful and I'm sending mixed messages, but I'll probably be more assertive about this when dd is potty trained because I'm more protective over her with this kind of stuff.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

My personal feeling is that 3 is old enough for private parts to need to be covered while outdoors.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

I have different standards for relatively "private" outside space and public outside space. My dd is 3.5 and tall (looks 4 or 5) and I don't care if she's naked in our backyard or on the patio play space at our friend's condo. (Dd and friend's dd are nekkid twins.







)

I do insist on private part coverage in our front yard or around the neighborhood.


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## jeteaa (Jan 23, 2007)

depends on where you are and live. Here in the NW we have a guy that has a website listing all the great places to see little girls. So for us, unless we are in a very private location. I always have clothes on them.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

That's just something I've never started in the first place.

But DS is almost 4 and will be completely dressed when he walks out the door.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeteaa* 
Here in the NW we have a guy that has a website listing all the great places to see little girls.









: How is that guy not in jail right now?! Sheesh.

I've never been comfortable with it here. I just don't have any remotely private yard space. If I had a little closeknit neighborhood where I knew folks and I didn't think anyone would call the cops, I wouldn't worry.


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## mom22girls (May 5, 2005)

Hah! I'm living in Sweden right now, and I think I'm getting weird looks because I have bathing suits on my girls (5 and 3) when they go outside in the sprinkler. At the beach a lot of the under 5s go naked. I don't do this because 1) the amount of sunscreen needing reapplication, and 2) I don't think that guys like jeteaa posted about are limited to the US. I think it depends on your yard and your neighborhood.


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## charmander (Dec 30, 2003)

My daughter loves to be naked. Loves it. She is 3.5. We let her be as naked as she wants in the house or in the backyard, which is enclosed by a fence. But not in the front yard or any other public space where strangers might see her.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Age 5-6, IMO.

Ds went naked through the sprinkler last year (age 5). But he's one of the only boys in the neighborhood and it was making the little girls (age 7-9) uncomfortable, so this year I'm asking him to put on a bathing suit, and he's pretty happy to do so, which suggests he's becoming a bit modest too.

Dd is 3 and still loves to be naked. I don't mind if she is, but dh is getting a bit weirded out by it, so usually we ask her to put something on if she's out in the front yard. Honestly, until she's about 5 or 6, I'm not going to put a lot of effort into it.

If we were in Sweden, they'd go naked until they decided to cover up!


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

My dd is 4.5 and goes naked in the back yard. It's moderately private, and she's never left unsupervised. If some perv wants to look, he'll get my garden hoe in the eye. In the house - it's impossible to keep clothes on her, and our family is comfortable with that.

Although my dh says he does not want her naked bum in his face while he's eating (she's a bit wild my dd...)









Front yard is rougher terain - at least panties on; she's starting to become more self concious (through no prompting of my own) I just tell her the panties are to protect her parts from getting scratched or getting road rash (she's not so quick on her feet).


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

We can't do our front yard as there is a busy street in the front... but the back yard...







LOL

My almost 3 year old and my 5 1/2 year old run about naked alot. My 9 and 12 year olds do not... their choice.
I refuse to be scared into not doing things for fear of sex offenders... yes they are out there, but I refuse to have my kids live in fear or myself for that matter.
I guess it is up to you and your kids. I don't think 2 1/2 is too old, but then that is me.

H


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## christy005 (Mar 5, 2007)

I think 3 is the max age i'd let my children go out bare bottomed.


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## boigrrrlwonder (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma* 
frankly, i'd be more concerned with any adults who could be sex offenders in the community. seems like you can always find one when you type in your address in your state's sex offender database, who lives not that far away or could be driving by, etc. in the privacy of your own backyard is one thing; out in front of the house, you hate to think it but could be setting up for trouble.

I'm not exactly sure why this is relevant. Yes, odds are all of us live uncomfortably close to someone who has sexualy abused a child, but I would be willing to be that most pedophiles don't see a naked five year old running through a sprinkler and then have an irresistable urge to swoop in and take off with the kid as the kid's mother watches.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

DS1 ran around naked until he was...4.5 or 5. I don't remember exactly which. I had a lot of hassles over this particular subject, which would take a long time to detail.

He pretty much quit going naked on his own. He started to pick up that the other kids in the neighbourhood didn't run around naked, and he had one or two friends who were uncomfortable, so he was required to put some pants on before asking them to play. He pretty much figured it out how it worked from those clues.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree* 
I refuse to be scared into not doing things for fear of sex offenders... yes they are out there, but I refuse to have my kids live in fear or myself for that matter.
I guess it is up to you and your kids. I don't think 2 1/2 is too old, but then that is me.

I ran around naked a lot as a child. Neither of the pedophiles who got their hands on me ever saw me naked, though. I'm not entirely convinced it's that much of a trigger for that particular kind of sicko.


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

I've never allowed dd to be naked where others could see her.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

My 4.5 year old is naked outside virtually everday now.

She'll be too old when she decides she's too old (or wants privacy). The worst someone can do is look at her and that's just not a big deal to me.

At the rate she's going (not developing modesty at the rate some of her friends are, thankfully) she may just be a nudist.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boigrrrlwonder* 
I'm not exactly sure why this is relevant. Yes, odds are all of us live uncomfortably close to someone who has sexualy abused a child, but I would be willing to be that most pedophiles don't see a naked five year old running through a sprinkler and then have an irresistable urge to swoop in and take off with the kid as the kid's mother watches.

No, not very likely at all.
But what IS very likely is that they will take pics. And possibly post them on the internet. There are tons of websites with "Upskirt" type pictures of little girls playing at the park, and little kids naked/just in undies playing in front yards, sprinklers etc. These websites are the same as porn sites, but the kids aren't doing anything sexual









It is really sad, and it is NOT uncommon at all. A simple google search an you can find many websites dedicated to these types of pics. I will not post links for obvious reasons.

And even if they don;t share the pics, they will enjoy them a lot I am sure.

There are also cases where kids are kidnapped later on after a Pedophile sees them running around their front yard naked or partially clothed.

I am not a super paranoid person, I don't think that there is someone just waiting to take my child.
But I do worry that if a person who is very sexually attracted to little boys were to see my son outside naked I might be putting him at a higher risk for something happening to him. Because now that predator knows there is a sexually appealing (to him/her) child that lives in that house. And what if they are the really aggressive type that would actually kidnap a child? They can now watch, plot and wait for an ideal chance to snatch my son. That is what worries me. And I know this can happen even if your kid is fully clothed, but I fell like if he is naked it might put ideas into a sick persons head, where there wouldn't have been otherwise.

So I have NEVER allowed my son to run naked in the front yard of our home.
We live in a bigger city, so I think that plays a part of my worries. And we are also in the Pac NW like a PP who mentioned that website that lists great places to view little girls in the areauke


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## MissSJ (Oct 23, 2005)

Thanks for all of the great replies! I just knew if I posted here I would get different perspectives that would get me thinking. I never really thought about sex offenders *shudder*. I'm not the paranoid type but just the thought creeps me out! I like the idea that once a child is potty trained to have them dressed.

I am going to keep my ds dressed in the front but I don't think I'm going to be super strict about it. I'll definately keep him dressed if the neighborhood children are out since I want to respect them and not make them uncomfortable. As for the backyard, I don't really care since it is a prety private fenced in yard.

Thanks again!
SJ


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## vermonttaylors (May 17, 2005)

I can't keep 'em dressed, but then we have quite a bit of privacy here. They are always naked. Pretty much all summer. I'm guessing this will be ds's last summer being naked, but that is up to him. He is starting to like being clothed more. Dd luuuuuuurves being naked.







:

It's summer, we're in Vermont, we have a pond,we are in a private location. it's what works for us.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

DD always has on at least a diaper and a tank top on outside. She is 19 months old. I won't let her outside wearing less.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

DS is turning 7 in Sept and still naked in our front and back yards. Also when we're at the beach. He prefers to be naked and I'm sure he'll start covering on his own.

The sex offender thing doesn't bother me. He's still always with someone and really if someone secretly snaps a photo of him how does that hurt us? I just can't imagine how something we aren't aware of effects us. I can't control what happens in someone's mind and I don't live in fear of stuff like that.


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## peachpie (Jan 25, 2007)

i go back and forth on this.... we live in a beach community and kids spend huge amounts of time half-naked or in bathing suits, especially in summer. At this point, i still tend to let dd change clothes (like, put on her bathing suit or strip out of wet clothes) at a public beach or parking lot. She doesn't go naked-- mostly because i'm worried about her fair skin in the sun.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
There are also cases where kids are kidnapped later on after a Pedophile sees them running around their front yard naked or partially clothed.

Do you have any stories of this? I've heard of plenty of cases of pedophiles targetting a child, but none of them ever mentioned the child being naked or partially clothed.

Quote:

But I do worry that if a person who is very sexually attracted to little boys were to see my son outside naked I might be putting him at a higher risk for something happening to him. Because now that predator knows there is a sexually appealing (to him/her) child that lives in that house.
umm...if your child is playing outside at all, and a pedophile sees him, said pedophile will know that there's a child living there whom he finds sexually appealing. The child doesn't need to be naked.


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

We have our own beach in the backyard so the kidlets are nude all summer. It's so much easier to sunscreen naked bums!

I don't allow the kids to run to the front yard because of fast moving traffic and the idea of icky people out there. But it's mostly the fast traffic!


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## Leylla (Aug 22, 2006)

I live so far in the boonies, it's no biggie, and wouldn't nobody but God and the bees seen us nekkid.

DS1 however really became modest around 2-3 years. My yuonger two? Never wear clothes anyway, just diapers, and when we have fun squishy mud time they like to be butt nekkid. However, I will admit that I do not like having to put sunscreen all around their privates. Butt cream doesn't bother me so much....However I would rather deal with it than deal with crispy burnt privates, and being as how we are Caspers, it's a neccesity.

Steph


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

I'd say 2 yrs old. My 5 yr old has a habit of wearing only her panties around inside the house and at times will forget and run outside like that. I have to catch her. She doesn't do it often anymore but it's funny when she does. Thank goodness we live in the country and no neighbors on a dirt road.


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## sleet76 (Jun 2, 2004)

Our neighbors (duplex neighbors, so we share the yard) are often naked in the yard, as are their friends. They have water fights, play in the kiddie pool, etc... Mine usually join right in. My kids are 4 and 2, neighbors are 5 and 3, and their friends are 2, 5, 7. It doesn't seem like a big deal at all.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

I don't feel comfortable at any age taking my children outside naked. I also don't feel comfortable seeing other kids outside naked. I feel it is disrespectful to those of us who 1) don't want to see someone else's naked child and 2) don't want our children to see a naked child. I know that opinion isn't popular here but, oh well.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicole lisa* 
The sex offender thing doesn't bother me. He's still always with someone and really if someone secretly snaps a photo of him how does that hurt us? I just can't imagine how something we aren't aware of effects us. I can't control what happens in someone's mind and I don't live in fear of stuff like that.


that's fine.

personally, though, i feel it's an invasion of (the child's) privacy to be photographed nude by a stranger (and a pervert, at that), with the child's image to be used in perverted ways.

we were at chicago's milennium park recently with children playing in the water park. lots of kids were stripped down to their underwear. sitting on the benches was a middle aged man with a zoom lens camera. none of the children were with him. he was just "taking pictures." sorry, but that gives me the creeps. i glared at him a few times and said something to my husband, who said he was already keeping an eye on him. the guy moved on down further away on the benches. what can you do? nothing i guess, except try to protect your kids.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma* 
frankly, i'd be more concerned with any adults who could be sex offenders in the community.

Yep me too. We only have a front yard and I always make sure my daughter's 'bits' are covered when outside. It's a rule here. I only let her go naked (or 'skyclad' as we call it) in the house or in other places that feel safe. Random men walking by on the street = not okay IMO for my child to be naked.

Sad but reality. So many girls are sexually abused. So many. And so many boys too.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
I don't feel comfortable at any age taking my children outside naked. I also don't feel comfortable seeing other kids outside naked. I feel it is disrespectful to those of us who 1) don't want to see someone else's naked child and 2) don't want our children to see a naked child. I know that opinion isn't popular here but, oh well.

Nobody's making you look at their naked child. If a child's nudity bothers you, don't look at them. I could just as easily say it's disrespectful to me, as someone who believes children have the right to be naked if they want to be, to make my child wear clothes for the sake of your biases. The major difference is that I'm not expecting anybody else to make their children be naked for the sake of my biases, but other people see nothing wrong with expecting me to make my children wear clothes for the sake of theirs.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma* 
personally, though, i feel it's an invasion of (the child's) privacy to be photographed nude by a stranger (and a pervert, at that), with the child's image to be used in perverted ways.

we were at chicago's milennium park recently with children playing in the water park. lots of kids were stripped down to their underwear. sitting on the benches was a middle aged man with a zoom lens camera. none of the children were with him. he was just "taking pictures." sorry, but that gives me the creeps. i glared at him a few times and said something to my husband, who said he was already keeping an eye on him. the guy moved on down further away on the benches. what can you do? nothing i guess, except try to protect your kids.

That would give me the creeps, too. OTOH, those children weren't naked. What if they'd been wearing swimsuits? Is it only a violation of their privacy if _naked_ photos are used in perverted ways? I don't want _any_ photos of my children being used for the titillation of pedophiles...but there is no way to guarantee that it doesn't happen. These people will take pictures whether our children are naked or not.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I don't want _any_ photos of my children being used for the titillation of pedophiles...but there is no way to guarantee that it doesn't happen. These people will take pictures whether our children are naked or not.

most parents would not want their child photographed nude by a pervert. with not wanting their child photographed *at all* by a pervert, coming in a very close second.

enjoy your nudity all you want. let your kids enjoy it too.

disagree if you want, but most people consider "private parts" deserving of the most privacy.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma* 
most parents would not want their child photographed nude by a pervert. with not wanting their child photographed *at all* by a pervert, coming in a very close second.

enjoy your nudity all you want. let your kids enjoy it too.

disagree if you want, but most people consider "private parts" deserving of the most privacy.

I guess I don't see the point in being paranoid about this kind of stuff. As I said, I ran around naked all the time as a child, and was never harassed at all. I _was_ sexually abused, by two different men, and neither of them ever saw me running around naked at all.

As far as I can tell, my son was never photographed naked, except by the people who lived upstairs...in the privacy of our fenced backyard (we got those photos back, and the police had a talk with the rather...misguided fellow who took them). OTOH, many women in our area have been photographed in the relative privacy of women's restrooms, by men with camera phones sneaking into the adjoining cubicles.

Once again, this is an area where people have to draw lines around how much they're going to allow themselves to be ruled by the criminals. I don't let pedophiles determine my children's dress code. That gives them power, even if they never so much as lay eyes on my child.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
It is really sad, and it is NOT uncommon at all. A simple google search an you can find many websites dedicated to these types of pics.


I wouldn't do anything to pull these kind of sites up even out of curiosity or outrage. A record would be forever on your computer of you going to the site.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

In my opinion, and in our family, it's once he/she is fully potty-trained. It isn't a specific age, but more a matter of need--a diapered child may need to be changed in public, or may take off her diaper, or may be doing naked time as part of potty-learning, but a fully potty-trained child has no need to be naked in public and is old enough to know or be taught to keep her clothes on (in theory). Ds is 4 and knows to keep his clothes on, but he still likes to strip (not in public though).


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

I never let my kids have any time of extended nudity outide at any age. However, if we are someplace without bathrooms (or easily accessible bathrooms), my kids will pee on a tree or someplace more isolated and away from where most of the people are. If it is necessary, I will also change my kids clothes in public, (again if there are no easily accessible bathrooms), and while doing so I try to keep them as covered as possible and do it as quickly as possible (so I will help my 5 yo, even though she is perfectly capable of changing her own clothes, I can help her do it faster and more modestly).

When my 5 yo about around 2 1/2 or so, we lived in a house with a privacy-yard fenced part, so I would let her be bare-bottomed in that..but only in the back where the privacy fence was, never in the front.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Do you have any stories of this? I've heard of plenty of cases of pedophiles targetting a child, but none of them ever mentioned the child being naked or partially clothed.

u

Sure...here is one.
http://crime.about.com/b/a/185314.htm
I am sure I could find lots more but I don't have time to research, and Shasta Groene was the first case that came to mind. Yes she was in a bathing suit, but for me that falls into the partially clothes category.

Yes, we all have to decide how much we will let pedophiles "Control" our decisions when it comes to our kids. I guess if it weren't for Pedophiles I wouldn't keep my son as close to me in the store etc...
Maybe I should just stop doing that because now the criminals are making decisions for my family?

I mean, we all have to change our lives to some degree to avoid this danger.
For me, not allowing my child to play in the front yard naked/just in underwear/bathing suit is part of the precaution for MY family.
We live in a very busy area, right off a busy road. We have LOTS of traffic going by our house.

And I don't understand the logic that a pedophile is not any more interested in a naked child than a clothed one. They are turned on by little kids...especially naked ones. IMO if a sicko who is turned on by children sees a naked/bathing suit/partially clothed child running around that is MUCH more exciting than a kid riding their bike with clothes on. To say that pedophiles aren't more interested in naked children...then why do they have so much kiddi porn on the internet with naked/partially clothed children?? Why not just kids wearing clothes?

As far as the websites I mentioned in my first post, a pp said that you shouldn't look them up bc there will be a record in your computer. Why would that matter? These SICK websites are totally LEGAL, so unfortunately people aren't doing anything that would get them in trouble by looking at them, because it isn't actually porn etc...it is one of those situations where people are abusing freedom of speech and there aren't laws in place yet to deal with these types of situations without impeding on other people's freedoms. I personally think that parents should see them, because it is hard to believe just how big this problem is until you start to research it.

I am not trying to be judgemental of anyone else's choices, just trying to explain where I am coming from. I think every parent needs to do what they feel comfortable with.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Sure...here is one.
http://crime.about.com/b/a/185314.htm
Shasta Groene was the first case that came to mind. Yes she was in a bathing suit, but for me that falls into the partially clothes category.

As far as the websites I mentioned in my first post, a pp said that you shouldn't look them up bc there will be a record in your computer. Why would that matter? These SICK websites are totally LEGAL, so unfortunately people aren't doing anything that would get them in trouble by looking at them, because it isn't actually porn etc...it is one of those situations where people are abusing freedom of speech and there aren't laws in place yet to deal with these types of situations without impeding on other people's freedoms. I personally think that parents should see them, because it is hard to believe just how big this problem is until you start to research it.


I really wouldn't do it. Every search you do in a search engine is recorded and retrievable. Don't think that if something happens legally to your family (a child custody battle, cps, death investigation, etc.) that the fact you searched "pictures +little girls +underware" wouldn't be an issue even if the sites you pull up were legal ones. In fact, the site you pull up could be an FBI sting site. Any website can see the IP address of visitors as well as the search the visitor used to get there. I'm sure that the FBI runs such "soft" sites as a hook for pediphiles, and that isn't a radar screen you want to get on.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe* 
I really wouldn't do it. Every search you do in a search engine is recorded and retrievable. Don't think that if something happens legally to your family (a child custody battle, cps, death investigation, etc.) that the fact you searched "pictures +little girls +underware" wouldn't be an issue even if the sites you pull up were legal ones. In fact, the site you pull up could be an FBI sting site. Any website can see the IP address of visitors as well as the search the visitor used to get there. I'm sure that the FBI runs such "soft" sites as a hook for pediphiles, and that isn't a radar screen you want to get on.

The website that I linked is a story about a little girl and boy who were kidnapped.

I would NEVER post a link to a kiddie porn site!!!!

And you don;t have to type incriminating things into your search engine to pull up one of the websites I mentioned. There is a HUGE public outcry about this so it is really easy to find the websites as well as information/warnings for parents about these types of websites. That is how I found out. I certainly wasn't typing Little Girls+ Panties into my search engine. But I agree with what you said...if you type that stuff into a google engine it will be forever on your computer. And it would look REALLY bad!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Sure...here is one.
http://crime.about.com/b/a/185314.htm
I am sure I could find lots more but I don't have time to research, and Shasta Groene was the first case that came to mind. Yes she was in a bathing suit, but for me that falls into the partially clothes category.

I mean, we all have to change our lives to some degree to avoid this danger.
For me, not allowing my child to play in the front yard naked/just in underwear/bathing suit is part of the precaution for MY family.
We live in a very busy area, right off a busy road. We have LOTS of traffic going by our house.

I don't get this at all. Not in a bathing suit? Are your children allowed to swim? Can they go to a public pool? This sounds an awful lot like the concept of forbidding women to wear anything even slightly revealing, because they may get raped.

Quote:

And I don't understand the logic that a pedophile is not any more interested in a naked child than a clothed one. They are turned on by little kids...especially naked ones. IMO if a sicko who is turned on by children sees a naked/bathing suit/partially clothed child running around that is MUCH more exciting than a kid riding their bike with clothes on. To say that pedophiles aren't more interested in naked children...then why do they have so much kiddi porn on the internet with naked/partially clothed children?? Why not just kids wearing clothes?
Adults aren't always more turned on by nudity than clothes. Many people find the "forbidden" or inaccessible to be a turn-on, in and of itself. Many porn spreads (adult ones, I've never actually looked at any kiddie porn) have the people involved at least partially clothed. Why would they do that, if nudity is inherently such a turn on? Real porn - sexual pictures - has to include nudity, as sex acts can't be performed while fully dressed. Pedophiles do also look at pics of kids in clothes - and probably get off on them...but they don't have to have a special site set up for them, because nobody worries about pics like that.

Quote:

I personally think that parents should see them, because it is hard to believe just how big this problem is until you start to research it.
I have no need to see it to know how big the problem is. However, jumping to the conclusion that nudity is a requirement is a big jump. As I said, neither of the pedophiles who got their hands on me ever saw me playing naked.

Quote:

Yes, we all have to decide how much we will let pedophiles "Control" our decisions when it comes to our kids. I guess if it weren't for Pedophiles I wouldn't keep my son as close to me in the store etc...
Maybe I should just stop doing that because now the criminals are making decisions for my family?
I still keep my kids close to me in the store, and I'm not sure pedophiles ever crossed my mind in that respect when ds1 was little. I did not want him running around, getting into things, getting into people's way, etc. He was very active, and quite unaware of the impact he was having on people around him (perfectly normal, imo - but something that needed to be addressed, before he knocked someone over).

You're absolutely right that each family has to make their own decisions. Personally, I'm not going to spend my time forcing my kids into clothes they don't want to wear, based on the belief that a pedophile might snap a picture of them...I'm not going to make them go swimming fully clothed, either. I'm very interested in where one would draw the line re: "partially clothed" vs. "fully clothed". If someone is "enjoying" uke pics of dd in shorts and a t-shirt, I really don't see how that's worse than pics of her in jeans and a long-sleeved shirt...or better than pics of her in a swimsuit. The behaviour is disgusting, and the fact that some sicko is treating my child as a sex object is the issue...not what my child is wearing.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Sure...here is one.
http://crime.about.com/b/a/185314.htm
I am sure I could find lots more but I don't have time to research, and Shasta Groene was the first case that came to mind. Yes she was in a bathing suit, but for me that falls into the partially clothes category.

umm...sorry - I found a mention of the guy seeing her playing in her bathing suit. Unless there's testimony from him that I missed, there's no indication there that the bathing suit had anything to do with it. He could just as easily have spotted her while wearing shorts. Frankly, this topic reeks to me of "it's her parent's fault - if they'd just kept her covered up, this wouldn't have happened". This guy was a hardcore criminal...way beyond even "just" a pedophile...he killed her whole family, for crying out loud!


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
The website that I linked is a story about a little girl and boy who were kidnapped.

I would NEVER post a link to a kiddie porn site!!!!

And you don;t have to type incriminating things into your search engine to pull up one of the websites I mentioned. There is a HUGE public outcry about this so it is really easy to find the websites as well as information/warnings for parents about these types of websites. That is how I found out. I certainly wasn't typing Little Girls+ Panties into my search engine. But I agree with what you said...if you type that stuff into a google engine it will be forever on your computer. And it would look REALLY bad!

Oh, I know you didn't post anything. I was talking about the statement earlier that is it terrible that these websites exist and all you have to do is google them to find tons of them. I think it is pretty natural to repond "really?!" and google to see (out of a sense of curiosity and outrage). I feel that way sometimes when I read a news story about, for example, a radical group's online posting; but to actually google it, you are forever linking yourself with the group. Sometimes I do anyway (free country and all) sometimes I don't (anything to do with child porn is simply too scary for me personally).


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

I never have allowed my kids outside naked bottomed. My neighbor's kids are out sometimes naked and it doesn't really bother me much b/c they are in their yard. I would prefer those in my yard/house be clothed, but that is my thing.

I never really noticed it bothered me with other kids until we were at my MIL's house and my niece (4 at the time) was running around naked in the little pool. I said something about having a bathing suit from my older daughter at my MIL's that didn't fit my daughter anymore that she could wear. I didn't even think about until my SIL just laughed and said is that a hint? I guess it did bug me a little b/c my boys kept wondering why she was running around naked. They are all older (except one who didn't say much at all) than her, so that may be why they were wondering.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
umm...sorry - I found a mention of the guy seeing her playing in her bathing suit. Unless there's testimony from him that I missed, there's no indication there that the bathing suit had anything to do with it. He could just as easily have spotted her while wearing shorts. Frankly, this topic reeks to me of "it's her parent's fault - if they'd just kept her covered up, this wouldn't have happened". This guy was a hardcore criminal...way beyond even "just" a pedophile...he killed her whole family, for crying out loud!

How does that reek of my saying that's the parents fault???!!!

WHERE did I imply that?

You ASKED if there were any specific cases of a child being abducted or molested after someone saw them playing in their yard partially clothed. I provided a link. And yes he is EXACTLY what I am worried about!!!! If the bathing suit has nothing to do with it then why is it even mentioned??!! He was sexually interested in the kids after seeing them in their bathing suits in the front yard. Then he stalked the family, and abducted the kids a short while later.

There is nothing wrong with letting your kid play in the front yard in a bathing suit, naked whatever, and I have NEVER said that!! These parents did NOTHING wrong AT ALL!

MY POINT is that this stuff really creeps ME out, and I don't personally feel comfortable with MY kids playing naked or in a bathing suit in the front yard of my home. I have not said anything bad about parents doing this, and I am completely non judgmental on this issue.

And I NEVER said that I wont let my son wear a bathing suit...Just not in the front yard of our home. Scenarios like the one I referenced really scare me. If someone sees him at the public pool in a swimsuit, they don;t know where he lives.

And I never said that kids have to be undressed for a pedophile to show interest in them. I even clearly stated in my original posting that I understand someone could see Owen playing in the front yard of our home fully clothed and get ideas. BUT I think it would possibly draw MORE attention like that if he is naked.

I am sorry that you are getting so offended by my posts, Storm bride.

They are not in any way meant to imply that this is what every parent should do. I too was molested as a child, and I actually had problems with a neighbor man after he saw me and my friend playing in our panties in the swimming pool (we were 4 BTW). I have personal experience with this that influences how I feel.

We are all different, with different circumstances. What is great for one person may be terrible for another.

Let your kids play naked in public all they want.

Just please back off my decision to not let my kid do it.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe* 
Oh, I know you didn't post anything. I was talking about the statement earlier that is it terrible that these websites exist and all you have to do is google them to find tons of them. I think it is pretty natural to repond "really?!" and google to see (out of a sense of curiosity and outrage). I feel that way sometimes when I read a news story about, for example, a radical group's online posting; but to actually google it, you are forever linking yourself with the group. Sometimes I do anyway (free country and all) sometimes I don't (anything to do with child porn is simply too scary for me personally).

And you know, I didn't even think about the fact that people would type things like that in the search engine but I bet you are right.

Thanks for posting what you did because you could be saving someone a lot of hassles. You are dead on in what you are saying, and that would be a horrible thing to be falsely accused of!!


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

I guess I was thinking fully potty trained myself. I let dd be bare bottomed, but we are way out in the country and she's not exposed near any neighbors. My mom wasn't even comfortable with that, worrying about perverts - with binoculars I guess. We swim with cover ups over our bathing suits, but that is because we are all lily white and burn easily.


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## ktbug (Jul 8, 2006)

Pedophiles exist. That doesn't mean I have to make any allowances for them, just like I know terrorists exist but I don't run around wearing a gas mask. There is so much fear out there in America about whatever boogeyman is featured on on MSNBC this week ... the chances of your child being kidnapped by a murderous pedophile are about the same as them being struck by lightning or catching tetanus. The fact is, and always has been, that your child is about 100 times more likely to be molested, abused, or kidnapped by someone in their own family. It's just a fact, people. There is a moral panic out there about these rogue pedophiles. I'm not saying they don't exist; I'm not saying kids don't get abducted by strangers and horrible things done to them. I'm saying it's rare. What's much more common is a family member, close friend, teacher, or church authority figure doing something messed up to a child.

Me, I let my kid run around naked in church.
No, that's not true. I don't go to church. My ds is naked about a third of the day, though, mostly because he's 10 months old and hates clothes. I ran around naked until I was about 4; my boy cousins did the same. My mother decided when I was 4 or 5 that it was no longer OK for me to not wear a shirt whilst outside in the heat "like Daddy"; I was mad at her for years.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled scaremongering boogeyman panic thread.


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## finn'smama (Jan 11, 2006)

nak
my kids are allowed to be naked in the shade and have to be covered when they're in the sun.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
How does that reek of my saying that's the parents fault???!!!

WHERE did I imply that?

I find the entire suggestion that letting children play in their swimsuits makes them potential prey for a pedophile, plus your remarks about maybe you should just not bother keeping your child with you in a store, to be very much on a "I'm protecting my child and you're not" level. I'm not suggesting that you're deliberately implying any such thing...but that's where your arguments seem to be coming from.

Quote:

You ASKED if there were any specific cases of a child being abducted or molested after someone saw them playing in their yard partially clothed. I provided a link. And yes he is EXACTLY what I am worried about!!!! If the bathing suit has nothing to do with it then why is it even mentioned??!! He was sexually interested in the kids after seeing them in their bathing suits in the front yard. Then he stalked the family, and abducted the kids a short while later.
Why was it mentioned? Umm...who knows? If I'm going to assume that anything the media brings up must be relevant to what's going on, I'd better jump on the OR table, because I'm overweight, and we all know overweight moms need c-sections. The bathing suit had no relevance to anything in the story. There was nothing in the story that backed up anything about the bathing suit. But, it sounded good - nice scary tidbit about the way people target children.

Quote:

MY POINT is that this stuff really creeps ME out, and I don't personally feel comfortable with MY kids playing naked or in a bathing suit in the front yard of my home. I have not said anything bad about parents doing this, and I am completely non judgmental on this issue.

And I NEVER said that I wont let my son wear a bathing suit...Just not in the front yard of our home. Scenarios like the one I referenced really scare me. If someone sees him at the public pool in a swimsuit, they don;t know where he lives.
This guy was spying on this famly at night. You really think he wouldn't/couldn't follow someone home? If children in swimsuits are pedophile bait, they're pedophile bait - in their front yard or in a public pool. DS1 had two female friends who came over to play out front of our house all the time - in swimsuits. A pedophile wouldn't know where they lived, either. This is a really arbitrary distinction.

Quote:

I am sorry that you are getting so offended by my posts, Storm bride.

They are not in any way meant to imply that this is what every parent should do. I too was molested as a child, and I actually had problems with a neighbor man after he saw me and my friend playing in our panties in the swimming pool (we were 4 BTW). I have personal experience with this that influences how I feel.

We are all different, with different circumstances. What is great for one person may be terrible for another.

Let your kids play naked in public all they want.

Just please back off my decision to not let my kid do it.
Then back off mine, and quit suggesting that I'm hanging them out as bait for pedophiles. I know many people of many ages who were molested as children. The vast majority of them were, as the vast majority of children are, "decently" covered and clothed when out in public. I had two friends who were actively "courted" by a neighbourhood pedophile as children, and they were both fully clothed at all times when not in their bedrooms. Deciding that we can protect our children from pedophiles by keeping them fully dressed at all times _is_ blaming the victim. It's saying that the child's (or parent's) actions are what bring down the attentions of a sicko.

I strongly believe this whole "keep everything covered at all costs, because nudity is all about sex" attitude that runs all through our culture is a breeding ground for all kinds of perversions. I also feel that it starts when children are young. I had a teenage girl call me a pervert because I was naked in my own home when I was 3 years old. My son had a neighbour call him a pervert because he was naked in his own back yard when he was 3 years old. She was 5 - wonder where she heard that. I had someone equate my naked 3-year-old in public with herself using a vibrator on the front lawn. This stuff is twisted...and naked little kids are not.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I find the entire suggestion that letting children play in their swimsuits makes them potential prey for a pedophile, plus your remarks about maybe you should just not bother keeping your child with you in a store, to be very much on a "I'm protecting my child and you're not" level. I'm not suggesting that you're deliberately implying any such thing...but that's where your arguments seem to be coming from.

I have said OVER AND OVER that I see nothing wrong with other people letting their kids do this. Just because I do doesn't mean that I think others are wrong. I don't dress Owen in Overalls, because that is not my preference. I am not saying that people who do are bad parents...kwim?
The statement about not keeping him w/me in the store was in response to you saying I am letting peds control me. I was just trying to make the point that we all take different precautions with criminals in mind.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Why was it mentioned? Umm...who knows? If I'm going to assume that anything the media brings up must be relevant to what's going on, I'd better jump on the OR table, because I'm overweight, and we all know overweight moms need c-sections. The bathing suit had no relevance to anything in the story. There was nothing in the story that backed up anything about the bathing suit. But, it sounded good - nice scary tidbit about the way people target children.
This guy was spying on this famly at night. You really think he wouldn't/couldn't follow someone home? If children in swimsuits are pedophile bait, they're pedophile bait - in their front yard or in a public pool. *DS1 had two female friends who came over to play out front of our house all the time - in swimsuits.* A pedophile wouldn't know where they lived, either. This is a really arbitrary distinction.

That is why I am saying that I only worry about this at my own home, not other peoples. Yes, someone could follow us home but I have to draw the line somewhere. It doesn't affect my son negatively that he doesn't play naked in the front yard-he doesn't care. It would really have a negative affect on him if I never let him run naked or never let him go swimming. I am not about to take it that far.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
*Then back off mine, and quit suggesting that I'm hanging them out as bait for pedophiles.*

I don't see anywhere that I have attacked your choices or suggested that you are hanging your children out as pedophile bait. I have not said one word about what you choose to do. You are the one who keeps attacking my posts directly. If you will review this all started with me responding to this thread by saying what MY family does. All of my replies to you have been defending myself against your attack of my posts.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I know many people of many ages who were molested as children. The vast majority of them were, as the vast majority of children are, "decently" covered and clothed when out in public. I had two friends who were actively "courted" by a neighbourhood pedophile as children, and they were both fully clothed at all times when not in their bedrooms. *Deciding that we can protect our children from pedophiles by keeping them fully dressed at all times is blaming the victim. It's saying that the child's (or parent's) actions are what bring down the attentions of a sicko.*

I have also clearly posted several times that I completely understand a child does not have to be naked or partially clothed or whatever to attract a pedophile. I think most people get that, and I don;t know why you keep bringing that point up since we are in complete agreement there.

And I am really sickened that you keep saying I am blaming molestation victims or their parents for what happened to them.
I have personally been molested, so I guess I am blaming myself too?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I strongly believe this whole "keep everything covered at all costs, because nudity is all about sex" attitude that runs all through our culture is a breeding ground for all kinds of perversions. I also feel that it starts when children are young. I had a teenage girl call me a pervert because I was naked in my own home when I was 3 years old. My son had a neighbour call him a pervert because he was naked in his own back yard when he was 3 years old. She was 5 - wonder where she heard that. I had someone equate my naked 3-year-old in public with herself using a vibrator on the front lawn. This stuff is twisted...and naked little kids are not.

And I haven't said anything about other people's kids being naked. When my friends come over with their kids in the summer they let them run naked a lot. I don;t care one bit, and I don;t think they are doing anything wrong.

I personaly think that I am on the EXTREME side about being PARANOID about letting my son run naked. I can't help it. It is just one of MY things. I think everyone has certain things that they worry about more than your average person, no matter how realistic/unrealistic the worries are.

I really think I better just get off this thread because this is getting ridiculous, has gone way off topic and is getting silly!!
Not to mention I have to keep repeating myself


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Ideally, I think children should be free to go naked, outdoors or wherever, until _they_ feel a need to cover up.

However, because we live in an urban neighborhood where many of our friends have had CPS called on them (for a variety of reasons -- not specifically nudity), we decided not to do anything to attract unwanted attention. There honestly are people who go driving down the street with cell phones, ready to call people in for anything they consider "bad parenting."

(I know these phone trigger-happy people exist, because some of them post here on MDC -- maybe not specifically about the nudity issue, but about kids they think aren't properly supervised, or parents who are having a really crappy day. They'll share how they called someone in and others'll pat 'em on the back for it.)

So ... back to the subject: while outdoors, our oldest wears at least a swimsuit or clothing, and our youngest wears at least a diaper or shorts.


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## momuveight2B (Mar 17, 2006)

I don't think it is wrong. I do think that around age four when the child develops self awareness about the differences between boys and girls and a need for modesty then their need to be covered should be respected. Not sure how else to word that.

Since I have several children the comments about naked butts is very common and there is always lots of giggling about it. It is not negative but like I say by around age four the child themself is feeling the need to close the door when they get dressed or use the bathroom. They also will not strip outside like when they were younger.

I do let mine go barebottomed a lot when they are not potty trained because I want them to get aired out while they are playing outside. I usally will take the diapers off and put on very loose training pants. I also want them to start to develop some awareness of how their genitals work so that they can learn how to use the potty.


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## MamaNosBest (Feb 20, 2007)

I don't think it's wrong, but I don't like it and wouldn't allow it personally for a child over the age of 2 or so.

Happily, my boys have never shown an interest in being naked outside (or much inside, either); my daughter likes to run around (inside) in her panties.

The only person I know IRL who is crunchier than me (except she spanks, go figure) has really feral children who run around naked a LOT -- inside and out. Girls, 8 and 6. I'll admit I hate to go to their house because the kids have been all over the furniture with their funky little naked selves, and it squicks me out. Child or no, keep your bodily fluids off my couch!


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## mummyto3girls (May 13, 2007)

DD1 is turning 6 and she likes to run naked inside and outside(in our backyard though) the house


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

Our backyard is overlooked by our neighbors. I don't mind the kids being naked indoors, but outside, I just don't feel comfortable with it mainly because I don't really want my neighbors to see my kids naked. My own hangups, not sure where they are from, but whatever.

Actually I think a core worry is sunburn on little penises.


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