# Help! I Just Found Out That My Friend Locks Her Toddlers In Their Rooms At Night And For Naps!!!!!!



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

I was talking to my friend on the phone, and I just learned about how she deals with their toddlers. Now that they are no longer sleeping in their cribs, she locks them in their rooms at night!







When i heard this, my first instinct was to totally lose it on her like I would have in times past. But, because I wanted to get my message across, and because I really wanted to show some progress, I fought back my extreme rage, counted to ten and breathed deeply befor asking her this, "Seriously? Are you kidding when you say this, or do you really do this?

"I really do this."

"Why," I asked.

"Because now that they have outgrown their cribs, I have to keep them in their rooms. I mean, I don't want them crawling into bed with me since it is my time, and i don't need them getting into things."

Outch! Now, here is when I would have lost it. How could a mother say such a thing? This is so heartless! Surprisingly, I did not. I remembered what I had learned in spiritual counceling and kept my composure. I remembered that I had an objective. My objective was that I wanted to convince her that it was not right to do. I remembered that if I lost my temper, the message woudl be lost with it.

"You know?" I began. "Have you ever thought that your children would be afraid to be locked in their rooms? Have you ever thought that they want to be close to you?"

"Well," she said, "they'll have to get used to it. I can't be there for them all the time. I love my children. They just have to go to bed when I say they have to. If they cry, they cry."

Though I was hurt beyond belief, and though my heart was torn into a million pieces, I managed to tell her what I believed and how I took care of children. I shared my experienced as i would an interchange of ideas. I did not want to tell her what she should be doing, as I did not want her to be on the defensive. I had the big picture that I wanted to share more with her in the future. So, I just shared my beliefs and my ideas in conversation.

Needless to say, when i hung up the phone, I cried. I'm still crying now. I'm so confused. Part of me is proud that I did not burst into rage, and the other half of me is so mad at myself because I felt I should have yelled at her and told her how crazy she was. I'm feeling so lost and confused. I hate having Aspergers, as it really impairs my way of doing things and reacting. Yeah, I'm getting much better, and I can update you all on that soon, but I just needed to sound this off tonight since i was so troubled. I'll probably have ightmares when I go to sleep tonight.

Did I handle it right?


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Are the toddlers at least in the same room so they can have each other's company?


----------



## MisaGoat (Jul 10, 2006)

I think you handled it great.

I don't know what I would have said. I would have been pretty stunned and probably found an excuse to get off the phone.

My son sleeps in a toddler bed, yes he gets up but we just tuck him back in. We sit in his room with him at night and sometimes we do have to put him back to bed several times, but that is part of the job. When he wakes up crying at night, I go back in to check on him and he goes back to sleep.


----------



## Murihiku (Oct 2, 2008)

Yes, I think you handled that extremely well. I'm not a particularly passionate person but I would have become agitated too--so congrats on keeping your cool.

I would ask her how she locks them in. If it's a key and keyhole, I'd point out that that could be very dangerous in the event of fire.







(Is it even legal to lock children in a room all night? If it's not illegal, it should be.)


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 









Are the toddlers at least in the same room so they can have each other's company?


NO, they live in a three bedroom house. They are in separate rooms. One is two and is still in diapers and can barely talk. The other is four and is poty trained, but she leaves his potty chair in his room. This is so upsetting. It is so sad.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

you're better then me. i would have frilling lost it.


----------



## mrsfrenchy (Apr 14, 2008)

yeah, i think you handled it well. although i have no idea what i would've done.

um, aside from the fact that it's just plain sad to lock them in their rooms, what about the saftey issue of it all? I mean, obviously she's there, but still. they couldn't get out if they *really* needed to.

wow...
I enjoy my freetime (I count down to nap time every day), but this is just called 'being a parent'


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Murihiku* 
Yes, I think you handled that extremely well. I'm not a particularly passionate person but I would have become agitated too--so congrats on keeping your cool.

I would ask her how she locks them in. If it's a key and keyhole, I'd point out that that could be very dangerous in the event of fire.







(Is it even legal to lock children in a room all night? If it's not illegal, it should be.)


I did ask her. i left that part out. Sorry for that, guys. I was just floded with confusion and sadness and rage while typing my first post. I had to get it out. I had to sound it off. So, I did leave out that detail and probably some others, too. But, if you have questions, and I kow the answers and it was something I forgot to mention, I will definitely answer them so as to give the full picture.

She said that she turned the doorknobs backwards. I still feel it is abusive, sad, and dangerous all at the same time. I told my mother about it, as I was so distressed, and she said that she was psychotic and a few other choice words. She tried at comforting me. (My mother is also receiving my beliefs in attachment parenting much better than she used to. We had some heart to heart conversations, and it really helps that I can have a discussion without it ending in rage because someone endorses something that I think is cruel and abusive, such as crying it out.) It did help, but I'm so upset. I don't know if it is illegal, but i'm tempted to call social services on her and remain unknown and report her. I know she is my friend, but children are involved, and some of me feels obligated. I'm fighting inside. I know that they don't view CIO as abuse, which they should since it could not be done to elderly and mentally challenged people, but I'm not sure what they'd say about locking kids in a room all night. And get this. She doesn't let them out until eight in the morning. She said that she needs time to get up, have her time, and then she will deal with the kids. Outch outch outch! My heart! It hurts right now!


----------



## all in green (Mar 4, 2007)

...


----------



## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

I'd call CPS & find out if they consider it abusive (it should be!!) & report her. It's incredibly cruel, imo.

You did much better than I would have, since I'd probably have screamed at her, hung up & immediately reported her.

Did you ask her about the safety issue or were you too upset to think about that at the time?


----------



## mama*pisces (Feb 17, 2008)

I think you did the best that anyone could have done in that situation. You're right - blowing up at her would have just put her on the defensive and your message would have been lost. At least this way there is a chance she might think about your viewpoint and perhaps realize that what she is doing to her kids is NOT okay. Doesn't sound like it, but you never know.

I really don't get how parents can be SO self-centered, to the point of neglect. Yes, I value my 'me' time too, and at times I am short-tempered and just want to be left alone -- but I would never in a million years dream of doing that.







Those poor babies.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
you're better then me. i would have frilling lost it.










Usually, i would have since i have extreme anger and rage issues. No, I'm not in constant rage. i have rage when I think an injustice is being done, especially when children are involved. I was abused as a child, and I've been through many more things and witnessed much more than someone could in three lifetimes. I'm scarred for life though I'm striving hard to get better. i also suffer from Aspergers, which doesn't help, either, as it caused extreme feelings to come up. Nonetheless, when I suspect something is wrong, my reaction was to flip out in rage ad osmetimes get physical, as all that was on my mind was that I had to liberate the child or weak person, even if it appeared crazy. Bt now, I'm learning some techniques to deal with my anger though it will never stop me from fighting for justice and standing up for those that need it. I'm learning to have discussions without it ending in rage, and I'm learning how to cope. Thank God. I am starting to feel peace now though I can't tollerate the injustice.

I'm so surprised I stayed calm. I really am.


----------



## veggiemomma (Oct 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deer Hunter* 
She said that she needs time to get up, have her time, and then she will deal with the kids. Outch outch outch! My heart! It hurts right now!

Not that I am advocating what she is doing at all, but if she does NEED her time, I'd hate to think of what she would do to those kids if she didn't get it.









My kids, now 3 and 4 have both been in their own rooms in their own beds since they were both about a year old. Before that, they were in our room in a crib. They DO NOT co-sleep well. NONE of us gets any sleep. They need their own space. I close their doors when they are trying to go to sleep because that is what THEY need. They both like to look at books and listen to music and have their own time. I'd love to hold and cuddle them to sleep, but they won't have it.

After they are asleep, I open their doors and if they get up, they get up. I don't think there is anything wrong with closing a kid's door, but locking it for all night seems...psychotic. AND dangerous. What if something happens to her and they are locked in there and no one knows? I'd be tempted to report her anonymously.


----------



## loitering (Mar 27, 2006)

I lock ds in his room. Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Yeah, I commit the daily crime of putting a baby lock on the inside of his door. I get paranoid about the possibility of him sleep-walking or coming out of the house and me not hearing him on the monitor. That said, if he cries, I do go into his room and sit with him until he's back asleep.

In the morning, he says, "Come in, Mummy!"

I do have a friend who doesn't go in for her daughter right away, though. Her daughter wakes up and plays in her room quietly until her mom comes in. This started when my friend had just had a second baby and was completely exhausted.

I don't agree with CIO in general, but other than that I'm not sure what the problem is.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Devaskyla* 
I'd call CPS & find out if they consider it abusive (it should be!!) & report her. It's incredibly cruel, imo.

You did much better than I would have, since I'd probably have screamed at her, hung up & immediately reported her.

Did you ask her about the safety issue or were you too upset to think about that at the time?


I asked her that what if there was a fire. What if they got sick? She said that they would be okay and that she'd come ot them if they cried in the night. But to me, i is not okay. NOt in the least bit! I'm severely closterphobic--I hope I spelled it correctly--and the thought of being locked in a room, especially as a small child not fully understanding the world and that they are safe is so scary. I can't wrap my mind around it. Maybe, it was better that I was my mother's child and not hers.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

good for you! i know what you mean about the rage. i get it a lot too. especially when i see someone hurting someone and no one will stop it. Circ, CIO, and Spanking are big ones for.. i can't even debate them with people.. who disagree...telling them they are cruel and should never have children (i am 21 and the only one with a child ... my friends are at the disadvantage of having no experience what so ever and being selfish overall which i hope will change when they become parents)

NIP is another one.. just because stupidity is my biggest bet peeve after cruelty.

btw i agree call CPS.


----------



## Morgana (Sep 25, 2008)

My brother has done the same thing with his three children. The youngest is 2 and is locked in her room at night. I think the other two (7 and 5 yr old) aren't anymore. He has a plastic cover on the inside door knob. It has tabs that you have to press in that grasp the door knob. I can see using something like this to keep a small child out of a room like an office but I always thought it was potentially dangerous to use it to lock a child in a room. My parents actually think it's pretty cool and have commented that they wish they had something like that when we were kids. This is the way he keeps the LO in her room when it's time for bed. I remember a night I was over to his house years ago when the oldest was around 2. She fell asleep on the floor right by the door with her hand sticking out. My brother said that was normal.









The crazy thing is that I haven't been around many (if any) kids except for my nieces so I always thought that this was just the normal thing to do. It always struck me as cruel but I didn't have kids so who was I to know any better? That's a big reason why I'm so glad I found MDC. This place has taught me to question a lot of things I've seen my brother do and a lot of things I've heard my parents praise.


----------



## Murihiku (Oct 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loitering* 
I lock ds in his room. Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Yeah, I commit the daily crime of putting a baby lock on the inside of his door. *I get paranoid about the possibility of him sleep-walking or coming out of the house and me not hearing him on the monitor.* That said, if he cries, I do go into his room and sit with him until he's back asleep.

In the morning, he says, "Come in, Mummy!"

I do have a friend who doesn't go in for her daughter right away, though. Her daughter wakes up and plays in her room quietly until her mom comes in. This started when my friend had just had a second baby and was completely exhausted.

I don't agree with CIO in general, but other than that I'm not sure what the problem is.

It's good to get another perspective on this. I hadn't considered the sleepwalking issue. However, the woman in question apparently has very different motives from you in locking her children up.


----------



## jjawm (Jun 17, 2007)

Can she hear them if they're sick? What if they're throwing up in the middle of the night? Scared? All these things have happened to my kids over the years.

I think she'd be better off putting a lock on her door. That way they could bang on the door if they needed her. Early in our marriage, dh and I locked our bedroom door during 'our time', to keep curious little boys from wandering in. But I would never, ever, ever EVER lock a child in their room.

Or else what about putting a baby gate on their door- that way they could still call her if they needed to. Not that it's the best option, but if she's intent on keeping them in their, it seems less lonely with a gate than a locked door.


----------



## operamommy (Nov 9, 2004)

I'd call cps as well.









What she's doing is both dangerous and neglectful.

Oh, and I'd certainly no longer be counting her among my friends.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loitering* 
I lock ds in his room. Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Yeah, I commit the daily crime of putting a baby lock on the inside of his door. I get paranoid about the possibility of him sleep-walking or coming out of the house and me not hearing him on the monitor. That said, if he cries, I do go into his room and sit with him until he's back asleep.

In the morning, he says, "Come in, Mummy!"

I do have a friend who doesn't go in for her daughter right away, though. Her daughter wakes up and plays in her room quietly until her mom comes in. This started when my friend had just had a second baby and was completely exhausted.

I don't agree with CIO in general, but other than that I'm not sure what the problem is.


I did not feel that you had to be so mean and sarcastic about it. However, I will say that I do understand your concerns about him wondering and getting hurt and stuff. I did not mean to strike a nerve or offend you. I just can't lock my child in a room. i just think it is cruel, and I'll stick to that.

Just a thought, but have you tried cosleeping? I'd do that before anything else. I personally feel that there are other creative ways one could take to make sure a child is safe.

Oh, and no worries. I don't think of you as a bad person. It is obvious that you are not neglectful to your son, and that is good. My friend--I may now cal her my ex-friend, as I have not decided yet since I still want to help her change--has very different motives than yours.

As for your friend, I won't get into what I think about that. No matter the exhaustion I feel, I'd never do that to my child, not at all. I'd call on reinforcements if things got tough. We are not islands, we need one another. I have other friends who believe in attachment parenting to the extreme as I do and would not turn their back on their babies literally that I'd trust my children to stay with. I've already trusted them with my life on a few occasions. Right now, i care for my friend's child, whom I consider to be as well just my own, until she gets out of trouble, but when I have my own children someday, I'll trust them in those friend's care.

I'm glad to know though that you do go in and comfort him when he cries. That is very good of you. You are an awesome mother for that, as your ensure that his emotional needs are met. Good for you. I give you points for that. Way to go. Keep up the good work.

You are a single mom? Wow! It must be tough. It has to be. I have friends who are single mothers, and they sometimes have trouble. Sometimes, i'll take the kids when they feel tired so they can rest up, and the needs of the kids don't go by the way side. It is all about helping people. That is my nature, and sometimes, it got me into trouble. More self control has helped. If I lived closer, I'd offer to help you out, also. Take care of yourself. Stay strong. If you ever need to vent, I will listen. My skype name is on my profile, and i have free world wide calling. So, if long distance is a problem--I did not look to see if you had a location listed--I can call you if you send me an email that you are frustrated or just need someone. Reaching out is one of my favorite things to do, especially to ones in need, such as single arents. When I help someone, I feel fulfilled and warm inside.

Sorry again if I offended you.


----------



## ~girlsmum~ (May 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
good for you! i know what you mean about the rage. i get it a lot too. especially when i see someone hurting someone and no one will stop it. Circ, CIO, and Spanking are big ones for.. i can't even debate them with people.. who disagree...telling them they are cruel and should never have children (i am 21 and the only one with a child ... my friends are at the disadvantage of having no experience what so ever and being selfish overall which i hope will change when they become parents)

NIP is another one.. just because stupidity is my biggest bet peeve after cruelty.

btw i agree call CPS.









Just wait until you turn 40 like me and want more children and your strong advocacy could get more fierce. My young twins are not ready to wander in the night so rather than put them in a bed and lock the door they are 2 1/2 and in their cribs. We have stairs that we can't alter the wall to install a gate(rental) and there are lots of danger areas that especially one of my girls could get into trouble without proper supervision. I LOOOVE my time to myself but I'd like to think I get it in a more gentle way..........our girls wake up every night, EVERY and I don't go in and beat them senseless, these are my babies and we'd like more. As a PP said, I'd surely hate to think how things would be if that mother *didn't* get her alone time. WOW!

But yeah, most toddlers are in toddler beds by now, mine aren't, they're safe and their door is open and I can hear them *toot* in their sleep, no danger that I'll miss them being sick or crying.

I'd just check the legalities on locking children in their room for peace of mind.

BTW, the word is claustrophobic.







Sorry I teach 2 languages! You did well though, you acted with love and that's always the best approach! xo


----------



## ollineeba (Apr 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Morgana* 
I remember a night I was over to his house years ago when the oldest was around 2. She fell asleep on the floor right by the door with her hand sticking out. My brother said that was normal.









That is so sad


----------



## loitering (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deer Hunter* 
I did not feel that you had to be so mean and sarcastic about it. However, I will say that I do understand your concerns about him wondering and getting hurt and stuff. I did not mean to strike a nerve or offend you. I just can't lock my child in a room. i just think it is cruel, and I'll stick to that.

I make a choice that comes from a place of serious thought and consideration over how to best protect my child from danger.

Quote:

Just a thought, but have you tried cosleeping? I'd do that before anything else. I personally feel that there are other creative ways one could take to make sure a child is safe.
Are we still on MDC? Of course I've tried cosleeping! I coslept for two years. Again, I made a very thoughtful decision to move ds into his own room, and he is very happy about it. If anyone needs any tips on transitioning a child with care, and making the room an inviting rather than scary place, I'm your gal









Quote:

As for your friend, I won't get into what I think about that. No matter the exhaustion I feel, I'd never do that to my child, not at all. I'd call on reinforcements if things got tough. We are not islands, we need one another.
Actually, at the time, my friend was completely isolated from family and friends. In fact, she had moved away from her incredibly toxic, abusive family. And her child was HAPPY to play for half an hour when she woke up. No big deal.

Quote:

I have other friends who believe in attachment parenting to the extreme as I do and would not turn their back on their babies literally that I'd trust my children to stay with. I've already trusted them with my life on a few occasions. Right now, i care for my friend's child, whom I consider to be as well just my own, until she gets out of trouble, but when I have my own children someday, I'll trust them in those friend's care.

I'm glad to know though that you do go in and comfort him when he cries. That is very good of you. You are an awesome mother for that, as your ensure that his emotional needs are met. Good for you. I give you points for that. Way to go. Keep up the good work.
Thank you, I *am* an awesome mother









Quote:

You are a single mom? Wow! It must be tough. It has to be. I have friends who are single mothers, and they sometimes have trouble. Sometimes, i'll take the kids when they feel tired so they can rest up, and the needs of the kids don't go by the way side. It is all about helping people. That is my nature, and sometimes, it got me into trouble. More self control has helped. If I lived closer, I'd offer to help you out, also. Take care of yourself.
I actually love being a single mom, and it's the best choice I've ever made in my life. I have a great support system though, and I'm doing just fine. Plus, I know how complicated and busy your life must be.


----------



## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loitering* 
I lock ds in his room. Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Yeah, I commit the daily crime of putting a baby lock on the inside of his door. I get paranoid about the possibility of him sleep-walking or coming out of the house and me not hearing him on the monitor. That said, if he cries, I do go into his room and sit with him until he's back asleep.

In the morning, he says, "Come in, Mummy!"

I do have a friend who doesn't go in for her daughter right away, though. Her daughter wakes up and plays in her room quietly until her mom comes in. This started when my friend had just had a second baby and was completely exhausted.

I don't agree with CIO in general, but other than that I'm not sure what the problem is.

We put a child lock on the inside of DS's door too. He would get up and wander around the house without waking us up. We were afraid he would leave the house as he was tall enough and smart enough to unlock and open the outside doors.







:

But we always responded to him if he called for us.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Morgana* 
My brother has done the same thing with his three children. The youngest is 2 and is locked in her room at night. I think the other two (7 and 5 yr old) aren't anymore. He has a plastic cover on the inside door knob. It has tabs that you have to press in that grasp the door knob. I can see using something like this to keep a small child out of a room like an office but I always thought it was potentially dangerous to use it to lock a child in a room. My parents actually think it's pretty cool and have commented that they wish they had something like that when we were kids. This is the way he keeps the LO in her room when it's time for bed. I remember a night I was over to his house years ago when the oldest was around 2. She fell asleep on the floor right by the door with her hand sticking out. My brother said that was normal.









The crazy thing is that I haven't been around many (if any) kids except for my nieces so I always thought that this was just the normal thing to do. It always struck me as cruel but I didn't have kids so who was I to know any better? That's a big reason why I'm so glad I found MDC. This place has taught me to question a lot of things I've seen my brother do and a lot of things I've heard my parents praise.


I'm so thankful for MDC also. It has started me on my journey to wellness. I owe so much to the mods and the people here. I'd like to donate some money to keep things going here, as I support any community who believes in what I do.

Even when I was not caring for any children, I thought things such as spanking, CIO, locking children in a room--my aunt did it too to my cousin--and cursing at kids among other things were cruel. To me, it always seemed like common sense that one would not do those things. Also, because I was severely abused--not by my parents--I had a one up on having insight into how one would treat another individual, especially a child. I can't say that I was thankful that I was abused. But, I can say that I have insight into many things that so many would not have usualy.

The story about your brother's children made me cry. i mean, should the first years of life be spent spend locked up in isolation away from love, especially at bedtime. The scary thing is that when these children cry out out of fear, they are just being ignored as being rebelious and sent on their way despite their pleas for comfort and their strongest efforts to tell their parents the did not want to be alone. As for his littlest one having her hand sticking out under the door and falling asleep there, that is common sense thatshe is hating the situation. Something tells me that she cried there until she was exhausted, and because no comfort or relief was forth coming, she had no choice but to fall asleep there at the door where she was begging to be let out of, well, her jail cell.

I have to give people like this to God. He can handle it better than I can.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jjawm* 
Can she hear them if they're sick? What if they're throwing up in the middle of the night? Scared? All these things have happened to my kids over the years.

I think she'd be better off putting a lock on her door. That way they could bang on the door if they needed her. Early in our marriage, dh and I locked our bedroom door during 'our time', to keep curious little boys from wandering in. But I would never, ever, ever EVER lock a child in their room.

Or else what about putting a baby gate on their door- that way they could still call her if they needed to. Not that it's the best option, but if she's intent on keeping them in their, it seems less lonely with a gate than a locked door.


I like the gate idea and keeping all the doors open. I'd do this so long as my children were okay with sleeping without me. That is an idea.


----------



## ollineeba (Apr 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deer Hunter* 
As for his littlest one having her hand sticking out under the door and falling asleep there, that is common sense thatshe is hating the situation. Something tells me that she cried there until she was exhausted, and because no comfort or relief was forth coming, she had no choice but to fall asleep there at the door where she was begging to be let out of, well, her jail cell.

I have to give people like this to God. He can handle it better than I can.

That's what I was picturing, too, and it breaks my heart. I don't understand the lack of compassion and understanding. How does a parent just ignore that basic need?


----------



## Jemmind (Nov 13, 2007)

I don't lock my son in his room but I do put a baby gate up and leave the door cracked. in the morning he says "open the gate please mommy!!!" or I hear him starting to stir and I come and let him out. It does seem dangerous to lock the child in the room. But I don't think it's illegal unfortunately, unless there is other neglect going on.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jemmind* 
I don't lock my son in his room but I do put a baby gate up and leave the door cracked. in the morning he says "open the gate please mommy!!!" or I hear him starting to stir and I come and let him out. It does seem dangerous to lock the child in the room. But I don't think it's illegal unfortunately, unless there is other neglect going on.

i think a gate makes sense as a safety thing... you don't want them running around and opening doors or something. in our old apt none of the doors locked so a gate would have made the most sense. plus they can see and hear you and vice versa


----------



## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

I lock ds in his room. Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Yeah, I commit the daily crime of putting a baby lock on the inside of his door. I get paranoid about the possibility of him sleep-walking or coming out of the house and me not hearing him on the monitor. That said, if he cries, I do go into his room and sit with him until he's back asleep.
How would he get out in the case of an emergency? I am not being snarky, but this is so dangerous. There are other ways to keep him in that are not going to risk his life in a fire. Just thought I would mention it as perhaps you hadn't considered it.

OP, I would be worried for your friend's children as well. "Me" time is important to recharge and parent well, but there has to be a solution that doesn't risk the safety and wellbeing (physical AND emotional) of her children.

You handled it so well, you must feel proud of yourself for keeping your emotions in check so you could get your point across


----------



## loitering (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
How would he get out in the case of an emergency? I am not being snarky, but this is so dangerous. There are other ways to keep him in that are not going to risk his life in a fire. Just thought I would mention it as perhaps you hadn't considered it.

OP, I would be worried for your friend's children as well. "Me" time is important to recharge and parent well, but there has to be a solution that doesn't risk the safety and wellbeing (physical AND emotional) of her children.

You handled it so well, you must feel proud of yourself for keeping your emotions in check so you could get your point across









I know the safety aspect is the first thing to spring to mind. I promise, I have it all worked out. Ds and I sleep a few feet away from each other, in seperate rooms. We have back-up plans in place. There is much more danger in my particular household of ds leaving his room than there is of a fire while he is in his room.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loitering* 
I make a choice that comes from a place of serious thought and consideration over how to best protect my child from danger.

Are we still on MDC? Of course I've tried cosleeping! I coslept for two years. Again, I made a very thoughtful decision to move ds into his own room, and he is very happy about it. If anyone needs any tips on transitioning a child with care, and making the room an inviting rather than scary place, I'm your gal









Actually, at the time, my friend was completely isolated from family and friends. In fact, she had moved away from her incredibly toxic, abusive family. And her child was HAPPY to play for half an hour when she woke up. No big deal.

Thank you, I *am* an awesome mother









I actually love being a single mom, and it's the best choice I've ever made in my life. I have a great support system though, and I'm doing just fine. Plus, I know how complicated and busy your life must be.


I actually do want to talk to you when you have some time about transition for bth myself and Johannes sake. You really could probably help me out. Seriously. He has now just turned three, and I've thought of letting him sleep in his own room, but I'm too scared to leave him alone, and he is the clingy type because after all he has been through. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on what I should do. Any suggestions you should have. Am I too paranoid, or are we just made for each other. He is clingy and Im scared.

My skype is waldorfpc if you have it. If not, please send me a PM. I look forward to hearing from you. Perhaps, you could help ease us both unless your advice is for us both to wait until we feel ready. Thanks so much.


----------



## loitering (Mar 27, 2006)

And.. I'm done.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
i think a gate makes sense as a safety thing... you don't want them running around and opening doors or something. in our old apt none of the doors locked so a gate would have made the most sense. plus they can see and hear you and vice versa


Right, this is why I support the idea of the gate. It just feels less lonely and less trapped in.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ollineeba* 
That's what I was picturing, too, and it breaks my heart. I don't understand the lack of compassion and understanding. How does a parent just ignore that basic need?


I don't think i can understand how some parents can do such things. I never will. I just have to give it to God and thank him that I'm not that way. Wait until I share this story with my mother tomorrow when I see her. Boy, will she be angry.


----------



## rhiandmoi (Apr 28, 2006)

This is a pretty run-of-the-mill thing in my experience. I would also say that most children go to the door, find that they can't open it and either go straight back to bed or go play with some toys for a little bit before falling asleep in a pile of stuffed animals. If the children aren't bothered by it I wouldn't get crazy calling CPS. Some LOs have a really hard time just staying in bed and going to sleep. It's doesn't mean they aren't tired because if you let them out to play they turn into gigantic crank monsters. So something needs to be done to actually get them to settle in for the night and go to bed. Lots of people lock their kids in the room to accomplish this.

I think one thing that is probably overly influencing your feelings on this is that you would feel scared and confused if you were the child locked in the room. That doesn't mean that these children feel that way. When you see them do they seem scared to go in their rooms? Do they get scared about having doors closed when they are in a room?


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
How would he get out in the case of an emergency? I am not being snarky, but this is so dangerous. There are other ways to keep him in that are not going to risk his life in a fire. Just thought I would mention it as perhaps you hadn't considered it.

OP, I would be worried for your friend's children as well. "Me" time is important to recharge and parent well, but there has to be a solution that doesn't risk the safety and wellbeing (physical AND emotional) of her children.

You handled it so well, you must feel proud of yourself for keeping your emotions in check so you could get your point across










I do feel very prod of myself, as this was my first test after about a month of spiritual counceling and anger control. Nevertheless, I feel so upset about it.

As for loytering, that is what i was thinking when I responded to her post. I did not want her to feel that I was picking on her, but it is not in the child's best interest to keep him locked up. What if the fire choked her to death, and he died because he was locked up. Something to think about.

loytering, I'm sorry if you feel ganged up on. I hope you do not feel that way, but please think about it. Could you perhaps use a gate instead? You may want to find other creative ways to address your fears of him wondering, which are legitimate and sincere concerns.

As for whether or not I approve of you, that is not what is at stake. That does not matter. Your child's safety is though. Please just think about it. That is all that I ask. I trust you'll make a good decision. You may not loke what I say, but I feel that locking a child in a room should be illegal no matter what. I only say this not to chastise you or make you feel bad. I say it for the reasons that I, and many others, have mentioned above. Sorry to say, but nothing will sway me from that.

Please just think of this one thing. Say that, for instance, there was a fire in the house. You died from the smoke, but your child was sill able to get out. HOwever, because he was locked in, he could not. So, his life was lost. I don't mean to scare you. It is just something that could happen, and I'd hate for it to happen to you and your son. Jst think about it and consider it. I can't ask any more of you than that.

And, I'll still take you up on your offer to help with transitioning. I can need all the help i can get right now. We can do this aside from this discussion.


----------



## Sasharna (Nov 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *funkymamajoy* 
We put a child lock on the inside of DS's door too. He would get up and wander around the house without waking us up. We were afraid he would leave the house as he was tall enough and smart enough to unlock and open the outside doors.







:

But we always responded to him if he called for us.

Same here.

People always bring up the fire hazard, but I don't think that's anywhere near as likely as a kid playing with knives in the kitchen or running out into the street. I find it prudent to take precautions against the more likely risk. A person knows when she is the mother of a "runner" or an "escape artist" and it would be neglectful to give such a child access to an environment in which it is likely he will get himself hurt.

Cosleeping isn't a good solution for this problem in every case ...and a child who is at risk for bolting at night has probably learned to scale a baby gate before he turned a year old.

OP, it must be very rough to have a friend who seems to have adopted a harmful parenting practice for a trivial reason. Do you think it's possible that she may not have been forthcoming with you about her real reasons, if you have clashed in the past? I know I tend to avoid sharing the whys and wherefores of my actions with people who have criticized me a lot.


----------



## rhiandmoi (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deer Hunter* 
Right, this is why I support the idea of the gate. It just feels less lonely and less trapped in.

Actually, in my experience a closed door is better because it muffles the sound of what is happening in the "off limits" areas. The gate is bad because it shows them exactly what they're missing out on. And it also doesn't keep light out of their rooms.


----------



## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

I plan on locking my kids in their rooms when they're in toddler beds instead of cribs. Go ahead, throw stones. It's a safety issue for me- and no, I don't want to co-sleep. I've been there, done that, and I need my rest. Am I going to let my kid scream and bang on the door to get out and me ignore him? No, of course not. I'll still go in, check on him, make sure he's ok... but how would I ever sleep at night wondering if he's going to leave his room, climb onto the computer chair in the hallway, climb from that onto the built in computer desk, from there the hall ledge and then take a large tumble down our stairs? Sounds paranoid, but he's an absolute monkey and will climb anything, and it wouldn't be difficult at all for him to do that.

What if I or dh forget to shut his bathroom door? He knows how to work the faucets. He's learning how to open and close the tub drain. He already climbs into the bathtub every chance he gets in hopes I'll let him have 25 baths a day. How do I know that one of us won't accidentally let the door slightly open and he'll go in, run himself a bath and drown? Or even just climb into the tub and hit his head? What if he goes into the hall and play with the computer cords and hurts himself?

If there's an emergency and he's locked in his room, there's no doubt in my mind I'll be able to get to him in time. If he gets sick, I'll do the same thing I do now, as he's "trapped" in his crib... go take care of him.

The implication that anyone who locks their toddlers in their room is abusing their child and deserves CPS to be called on them really, really pisses me off. I say this as someone who was abused as a child. I've been locked in closets and worse as a young child. Someone locking their child in their room for other reasons is not abuse.


----------



## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
How would he get out in the case of an emergency? I am not being snarky, but this is so dangerous. There are other ways to keep him in that are not going to risk his life in a fire. Just thought I would mention it as perhaps you hadn't considered it.

OP, I would be worried for your friend's children as well. "Me" time is important to recharge and parent well, but there has to be a solution that doesn't risk the safety and wellbeing (physical AND emotional) of her children.

You handled it so well, you must feel proud of yourself for keeping your emotions in check so you could get your point across









Most kids that young wouldn't understand what to do in an emergency anyway and would need to be rescued. It's better if you know just where to find them I think. One of my little daycare boys had to be locked in his room at night because he started sneaking out of the house at 18 months old. He would climb out of his crib, push a chair up to the front door to undo the chain and deadbolt, and leave. His mother was a heavy sleeper and wouldn't hear him. He was a little houdini. The police found him walking down the middle of the street naked at midnight! She almost lost him to CPS over it. He spent the night at our house one time. He climbed out of the crib and got into the fridge in the middle of the night. I woke up because I heard noise in the kitchen....he was smashing eggs on the floor!!!! He wasn't hungry, didn't want to eat....he just woke up and decided to play.


----------



## AidansMommy1012 (Jan 9, 2006)

We locked ds1's door for a little bit when he was a toddler after we had a HUGE scare. He slipped out of bed very early in the morning while the rest of the household was still asleep. He's quite tall for his age (dh is 6'7 and all the kids have inherited that gene), so he was more than able to undo the deadbolt on the front door, and went for a morning stroll. Dh, who works nights, got home around 7 am and peeked in on ds1, as per usual, and then burst into our room in a panic, asking me where our son was. We discovered the unlocked door pretty quickly and called the police. They picked him up a little under a mile from our house, barefoot and in his pj's. I remember standing barefoot and hugely pregnant in our lawn watching the police cruiser pull up with his little face peeking out the window. I have never been so scared. He, of course, thought it was all fantastic. He had actually been picked up before our phone call and the cops had been walking around trying to figure out where this kid had come from, and one of them gave him a ride on his shoulders. And, of course, he got to ride in a police car. But yeah, we locked his door for a bit until we knew he understood not to leave the house.


----------



## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deer Hunter* 
Right, this is why I support the idea of the gate. It just feels less lonely and less trapped in.

Most kids can climb a gate pretty young. You could hang bells on it or something though, so you hear them when they climb.


----------



## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

Most kids that young wouldn't understand what to do in an emergency anyway and would need to be rescued. It's better if you know just where to find them I think. One of my little daycare boys had to be locked in his room at night because he started sneaking out of the house at 18 months old. He would climb out of his crib, push a chair up to the front door to undo the chain and deadbolt, and leave. His mother was a heavy sleeper and wouldn't hear him. He was a little houdini. The police found him walking down the middle of the street naked at midnight! She almost lost him to CPS over it. He spent the night at our house one time. He climbed out of the crib and got into the fridge in the middle of the night. I woke up because I heard noise in the kitchen....he was smashing eggs on the floor!!!! He wasn't hungry, didn't want to eat....he just woke up and decided to play.
I have an escape artist myself, but in the event of an emergency I *may not* be in a position to rescue her. I would prefer she had some other option than to be trapped in her room. She is my 3rd child though so I don't worry about her night wanderings like I may have with one of the older ones. Aside from making sure she doesn't get out of the house at night (which she has) I keep things safe for her to be up at night as much as possible. I CAN control what she can get into, I CAN'T control things like fires where I may not be able to help if necessary.

Thankfully she is getting older and is learning what is safe to do even when we are asleep (in theory anyway







).

To each their own I suppose.


----------



## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deer Hunter* 
And get this. She doesn't let them out until eight in the morning. She said that she needs time to get up, have her time, and then she will deal with the kids. Outch outch outch! My heart! It hurts right now!

This is seriously messed up. This is absolutely abuse. I cannot even imagine what those poor children are thinking being locked in their rooms until 8 am. I am just in shock, and my heart is breaking for their sweet souls.


----------



## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Is she locking them in by shutting the door... or locking them in with a baby gate? When DD does not co-sleep, I put up a baby gate to her door so she doesn't wander around the house at night. (Her room is directly across from mine... I can see her doorway from my bed).


----------



## Jemmind (Nov 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
Most kids can climb a gate pretty young. You could hang bells on it or something though, so you hear them when they climb.

My son is almost 2.5 and never tried to climb the gate, guess I am a lucky one!!


----------



## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AidansMommy1012* 
We locked ds1's door for a little bit when he was a toddler after we had a HUGE scare. He slipped out of bed very early in the morning while the rest of the household was still asleep. He's quite tall for his age (dh is 6'7 and all the kids have inherited that gene), so he was more than able to undo the deadbolt on the front door, and went for a morning stroll. Dh, who works nights, got home around 7 am and peeked in on ds1, as per usual, and then burst into our room in a panic, asking me where our son was. We discovered the unlocked door pretty quickly and called the police. They picked him up a little under a mile from our house, barefoot and in his pj's. I remember standing barefoot and hugely pregnant in our lawn watching the police cruiser pull up with his little face peeking out the window. I have never been so scared. He, of course, thought it was all fantastic. He had actually been picked up before our phone call and the cops had been walking around trying to figure out where this kid had come from, and one of them gave him a ride on his shoulders. And, of course, he got to ride in a police car. But yeah, we locked his door for a bit until we knew he understood not to leave the house.

Wow, that must have been TERRIFYING! For you anyway, sounds like HE thought it was an adventure


----------



## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Morgana* 
I remember a night I was over to his house years ago when the oldest was around 2. She fell asleep on the floor right by the door with her hand sticking out. My brother said that was normal.









The crazy thing is that I haven't been around many (if any) kids except for my nieces so I always thought that this was just the normal thing to do. It always struck me as cruel but I didn't have kids so who was I to know any better? That's a big reason why I'm so glad I found MDC. This place has taught me to question a lot of things I've seen my brother do and a lot of things I've heard my parents praise.

This is so very very sad. Such a sad image. I am so glad you are seeing another way, and not following what you saw in your family.


----------



## AidansMommy1012 (Jan 9, 2006)

It was awful. I always surprise myself with my reaction in situations like that; while he was actually gone, I was numb and calm and very focused. Once he was returned though, I burst into tears right there in the lawn, snatched him up, and just about melted down.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grniys* 
I plan on locking my kids in their rooms when they're in toddler beds instead of cribs. Go ahead, throw stones. It's a safety issue for me- and no, I don't want to co-sleep. I've been there, done that, and I need my rest. Am I going to let my kid scream and bang on the door to get out and me ignore him? No, of course not. I'll still go in, check on him, make sure he's ok... but how would I ever sleep at night wondering if he's going to leave his room, climb onto the computer chair in the hallway, climb from that onto the built in computer desk, from there the hall ledge and then take a large tumble down our stairs? Sounds paranoid, but he's an absolute monkey and will climb anything, and it wouldn't be difficult at all for him to do that.

What if I or dh forget to shut his bathroom door? He knows how to work the faucets. He's learning how to open and close the tub drain. He already climbs into the bathtub every chance he gets in hopes I'll let him have 25 baths a day. How do I know that one of us won't accidentally let the door slightly open and he'll go in, run himself a bath and drown? Or even just climb into the tub and hit his head? What if he goes into the hall and play with the computer cords and hurts himself?

If there's an emergency and he's locked in his room, there's no doubt in my mind I'll be able to get to him in time. If he gets sick, I'll do the same thing I do now, as he's "trapped" in his crib... go take care of him.

The implication that anyone who locks their toddlers in their room is abusing their child and deserves CPS to be called on them really, really pisses me off. I say this as someone who was abused as a child. I've been locked in closets and worse as a young child. Someone locking their child in their room for other reasons is not abuse.


Wow! So sorry you had to go through all the abuse. I've been there, too, and I understand.

I also understand where you are coming from. I, too, was a monkey, and I loved baths like that. It turned out that my reasons was due to sensory integration problems and a slight suspicion of OCD. I've always been germaphobic for as long as I could remember. As soon as my diaper was wet, I'd scream until it was changed. If I pooped, I was running my own bath and washing off. I was able to set my own water at two years of age. I taught myself. I guess Aspergers is a bless in disguise in the way that I'm in the twenty-five percent of the nation who is extremely gifted--no bragging intended--and could learn things like that. Today, I'm still like that. I have problems with the slightest bit of dirt on me. When I step in something wet, I practically go nuts and go get a bath. And, I'm hyper sensitive to many other things. Does it drive me nuts? Oh, yes it does. I wish I was not that way. But the thing is, I am and have to accept that.

As far as to what you do, to each his own, I guess. I just can't do that.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AidansMommy1012* 
We locked ds1's door for a little bit when he was a toddler after we had a HUGE scare. He slipped out of bed very early in the morning while the rest of the household was still asleep. He's quite tall for his age (dh is 6'7 and all the kids have inherited that gene), so he was more than able to undo the deadbolt on the front door, and went for a morning stroll. Dh, who works nights, got home around 7 am and peeked in on ds1, as per usual, and then burst into our room in a panic, asking me where our son was. We discovered the unlocked door pretty quickly and called the police. They picked him up a little under a mile from our house, barefoot and in his pj's. I remember standing barefoot and hugely pregnant in our lawn watching the police cruiser pull up with his little face peeking out the window. I have never been so scared. He, of course, thought it was all fantastic. He had actually been picked up before our phone call and the cops had been walking around trying to figure out where this kid had come from, and one of them gave him a ride on his shoulders. And, of course, he got to ride in a police car. But yeah, we locked his door for a bit until we knew he understood not to leave the house.


OMG! I would have been terrified! Wow! I guess that I'm glad that Johannes is clingy. Perhaps it is a blessing. A least I won't have to worry about this. Your poor soul! and the sad thing is, CPS could take this the wrong way. Wow! Thanks for sharing your side of things. But, things could be different when I actually have my own children. (I shudder violently, as the thought freaks me out.)


----------



## StarMom2 (Apr 29, 2008)

My sister just recently told me that when she was a small child (3-4 yrs old), she would routinely leave the house in the night and wander the neighborhood. She did this often. We make sure our door is locked and the doggy-door is blocked because I am afraid of DS doing this. My sister's admission to me makes me want to lock him in his room also. I think it is actually common practice to lock children in rooms with gates or locks on doors. And, unless they are screaming for Mama, I don't think it is abuse. Children die in my state every winter because they wander out at night and freeze to death. I think it is easy to feel like parents who do things differently are doing this wrong. But, I have more faith in parents than that. We all love our kids and try to do the best we can for them. I would be careful about making it your intent to fix her parenting or jump to conclusions about abuse. You wouldn't want another parent to do that to you because you choose to make different decisions for your kids. There are a lot of people out there who think co-sleeping or not vaxing your kids is dangerous and neglectful. We live in a country where we have rights and the vast majority of us want to do what is best for our kids.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
I have an escape artist myself, but in the event of an emergency I *may not* be in a position to rescue her. I would prefer she had some other option than to be trapped in her room. She is my 3rd child though so I don't worry about her night wanderings like I may have with one of the older ones. Aside from making sure she doesn't get out of the house at night (which she has) I keep things safe for her to be up at night as much as possible. I CAN control what she can get into, I CAN'T control things like fires where I may not be able to help if necessary.

Thankfully she is getting older and is learning what is safe to do even when we are asleep (in theory anyway







).

To each their own I suppose.


You know, I've thought of something. Instead of locking them up in their room, why not get a youth crib? This may sound strange, but they make cribs for youths and even adults. Personally, I think that this is a safer option than locking them in their rooms when they are able to get out of bed since when locked in their rooms, they can still get hurt or into danger.

Where do I get such experience?

I have cared for the mentally challenged. I've found that locking them up--and yes they can surely wonder--is not the safest option. However, a youth crib or adult crib, depending on the size of the person/child is better, as they are contained in one area and have less of a chance of pounding out a window or choking on something they find in their room. Now, I KNOW why I'd stand firmly by not locking my kids up. In the crib, they'll have things to play with, and I will not have to worry about anything, especially if a baby monitor is near my heard, and I can hear every sound. What I've done with the mentally challenged that have been in my care, I can apply it in child rearing since it is essentially the same--protecting our children from things that will hurt them and keep them from wondering out of the house into an unsafe world of danger.

Just a thought.

I'm surprised I thought of this through all that I'm feeling right now. Anyone interested in the idea can send me a PM, and I'll tell you where to get such cribs.


----------



## TortelliniMama (Mar 11, 2004)

I skimmed the thread, but I don't think I saw anyone mention the possibility of door alarms. Putting one on the bedroom door could work for anyone who's worried about unsupervised wandering around the house. The door would need to be closed, but not locked.

It would definitely depend on the child and the alarm how this would work, though. I could see some kids being very upset by the sound of some alarms, and they could certainly find it a more unpleasant experience than a locked door (again, depending on how they react to a locked door). And, of course, a less jarring alarm sound would be less able to wake a sleeping parent. But I just figured I'd mention it in case it works for someone.


----------



## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deer Hunter* 
Just a thought.

I'm surprised I thought of this through all that I'm feeling right now. Anyone interested in the idea can send me a PM, and I'll tell you where to get such cribs.

Youth cribs average around $5000. I can't afford that, don't actually know anyone that could








http://durable-medical-equipment.med...uct_search.asp

edited to add: I think I'd rather be locked in a room than in one of those. They look like animal cages.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
Youth cribs average around $5000. I can't afford that, don't actually know anyone that could








http://durable-medical-equipment.med...uct_search.asp

edited to add: I think I'd rather be locked in a room than in one of those. They look like animal cages.

Yeah, I think if I were a little kid, I'd rather be locked in my room.


----------



## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

That link actually reinforced my thinking that I did the right thing using a $6 door knob cover for the 6 months or so that it took for DS to learn not to wander at night.

At least he had his entire room to play in and he could knock on his door to let us know if he needed anything. He wasn't locked in a metal cage.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

I see what you guys are saying. And, I'm not criticising any of you for choosing to do what you do, as you have made your intentions known, and you obviously are by no means neglecting your children. My friend, on the other hand does have some issues. And no, we've never clashed. I've helped her with many things, such as financial and moral support, which was my reason for working hard to hold back my anger. I'd like to believe that I can help her, not alienate her. However, it doesn't stop me from feeling sad. When they cry, she will not let them out, as she says it is their bed time and will go to bed when she says to. She told me herself. She does not want to spoil her kids, so she says, and she says they'll just have to get over it. She said they can bang on the door all they want, but she is not letting them out or giving them any attention since they will need to learn. Can you see why I'm so troubled. They are suffering emotionally. You guys, on the other hand are not that heartless. None of you here had that attitude. This is very apparent, as some of you here have encountered so very scary situations that I hope I will never encounter in a million years.

As for the cribs, there is one site that makes some for very affordable prices. Yes, it is an alternative site--for those of Infantilists--but many institutions do use these cribs, as they are more affordable than the youth cribs, and they are more friendlier than the cages you saw. All they are is just a bigger version of a baby crib. It is made in the same way. That is what the mentally challenged people that I cared for slept in. I don't care where I got it. All I cared about is how affordable and warm it seemed compared to the cages. The site is at www.babyapparels.com Yeah, this is a different and unusual lot, but I can appreciate this furnature when caring for special people, even my children. It is made very well. As a matter of fact, I've seen the same cribs in the homes of mentally challenged people I visited. There carers decided to use them for the same reasons children are locked in their rooms. One managed to break out the window whe locked in his room, and that is when the adult sized crib--it fits a twin matress--was decided upon.

Just thought I'd share. It is fine that you disagree with me. After seeing some of your replies, I feel better now. I'm still so sad, but it is nice to know that I can talk to you guys.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

What's an Infantalist?


----------



## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

I'm not seeing how the crib is any better than locking the child in their room ? The child would still not be able to get out in case of a fire, and is trapped in a *very* small space. To me, a tall infant gate up to their bedroom door still seems the safest for toddlers. (Obviously won't work for older children).


----------



## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I thing it depends on what she is locking the door with. Really no matter if the door is locked or if it is a gate the child is trapped in an emergency.

There can be many variables and not all people that lock their kids in are "horrible".

I have seen video tape of parents putting child gates on top of each other to lock their toddlers in the room to have the toddlers scale both.

Sleep walkers can present a special situation.

An alarm would never work for me.......I have slept through smoke detectors and hospital monitors. Yet, I can hear hear my 14 year old cough across the house at 2 am.

I think what I find disturbing about the OP post is the mom's attitude and rules.


----------



## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Those cribs are bigger but the sides don't look any higher than an infant crib. They would offer more room to stretch out but not be any harder to climb out of.


----------



## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
What's an Infantalist?

It's a fetish.....someone that gets off on pretending to be a baby.


----------



## Baby Makes 4 (Feb 18, 2005)

My 3 year old is locked in his room at night too. He has been ever since I took a shower during nap time once and he got up, left his room, climbed over the gate at the top of the stairs, unlocked the doorknob lock and the deadbolt on the front door and went to play in the creek. Alone. He had just turned 2. It was at least 10 minutes before I knew he was gone and another 5 before I found him. Thank God he didn't drown.

He is perfectly happy sleeping alone (has refused to cosleep since 6 months of age) and is responded to when he wants or needs anything.

I don't believe he is in any way psychologically harmed by his bedroom door being locked at night but even if there was some evidence that it was distressing to him it is still surely safer than the possibility of drowning in the toilet, burning himself on the stove, ingesting toxic cleaning products, playing with kitchen knives, wandering into traffic or drowning in the creek.


----------



## momtokea (Oct 27, 2005)

Here's how I did it: I rocked my toddlers to sleep in their bedroom. When they were fully asleep I put them in their bed, left their door wide open, and placed a baby gate in the doorway. If they woke up and called to me I heard them and immediately went in. It gets very cold at night here and there have been toddlers that have left their houses and frozen to death, because it only takes a few minutes in -30 celcius. No matter how attentive a mother is, she may sleep through a toddlers wandering. Even when co-sleeping the toddler can get up from the bed and wander off without the mother waking. It has happened in my city and the results were bad.

I would not be at all comfortable with what your friend is doing. It sounds very dangerous. There are many unforeseen dangers in a bedroom, too, no matter how childproof you may think it is ... choking, strangulation from window coverings, faulty window locks.... the mother needs to be able to hear or peek in to make sure everything is okay.

ETA: my toddlers did not climb over the baby gate, so that was never an issue here.

And, someday the child will be locking the MOTHER out of his room. My oldest is almost 11 and the years go by VERY quickly.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
What's an Infantalist?


They are adults that wish to be treated as babies. I've met a few in my time. Usually, they are the result of extreme abuse, depriving of the proper attachment necessary for good develpment, such as to parents like my friend and those who frequently ignore their child's cries, harsh childhoods, not being allowed to display emotions and being punished for doing so, and many other reasons. Many of them want to try to start from the beginning and learn to trust people. At least that is why my friend engaged in it. He said those were his reasons.

I thought it was strange in the beginning, and I did make a mockery of it out of shallowness, but when I looked deeper and realized that these people were hurting, I then understood. I found out that a good friend was one of them when he had asked me for one of my diapers--I am a sufferer of total incontinence. At first, I severely berated him. I even cursed him--this happened before I was a Christian and did not care much about language, and it was eight years ago. I felt he was making a mockery of my condition since it is stigmatized and people think of it as being babyish if one has an acident and is diaper dependent past potty training years. I thought he was part of that crowd. But, when I grew up, and it took years, I learned about why he did it. I talked to him again and said I was sorry. Surprisingly, he forgave me. When he was a child, he was abandoned to his grandparents by his parents because he was born blind and unhealthy. His parents would not even wake to help him even if his breathing monitor went off. His grandparents had to do it, and they told me about all the sad things that his parents did to him once they DID come back into his life in his later childhood years. My friend even tried to end his life because it was so bad. I won't forget the day he came to me and said he took a whole bottle of pills. I cried and got him help. He is still alive today. He is now successful, runs his own company giving ounceling services to those in crisis, and stands up for injustice.

How heartbreaking. Understandbly so, my friend wants nothing to do with them. As strange and different as it may be, I let him live the way he wants, especially if it will help him heal.

To learn more about them, there is a site that is at www.understanding.infantilism.org

Very interesting to say the least. I still don't understand it fully. I'm still baffled.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amylcd* 
I'm not seeing how the crib is any better than locking the child in their room ? The child would still not be able to get out in case of a fire, and is trapped in a *very* small space. To me, a tall infant gate up to their bedroom door still seems the safest for toddlers. (Obviously won't work for older children).


Actualy, the sides are 65 inches high.


----------



## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deer Hunter* 
Actualy, the sides are 65 inches high.

It looks like it's 65 inches from the floor, not 65 inches from the top of the matress. There are adults sitting up in the cribs and their heads are well over the side. I doubt those adults have 5 1/2 foot long torsos. I'd hate for a little one to climb out and fall from that height.


----------



## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

I think you're WAY over-reacting. Babies sleep in cribs in their own rooms. Door open or closed they can't "get out in case of a fire" either. Just sayin'.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
It looks like it's 65 inches from the floor, not 65 inches from the top of the matress. There are adults sitting up in the cribs and their heads are well over the side. I doubt those adults have 5 1/2 foot long torsos. I'd hate for a little one to climb out and fall from that height.

The sides of the rail do slide up and down. They'll slide up to keep the person inside. Also, there are different types.

One is for infantilists, and of course, they do not need to worry about how high the sides are. The other is for special needs people. The sides will slid up making sure they stay in the cribs. When you call, and I've done this myself personally so I'd definitely know, you'd just specify what the crib will be used for. All of them are hand made by Mike, the owner of the company. They are customized. He will work right along with your request, as he is very accommidating and curtius. I hope this helps out.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovingmommyhood* 
I think you're WAY over-reacting. Babies sleep in cribs in their own rooms. Door open or closed they can't "get out in case of a fire" either. Just sayin'.


Exactly the point I was trying to prove though I can understand some of the skepticism about the method since it is different and new to some. On my blog concerning the special needs and mentally challenged found at www.keepthemhome.blogspot.com where I share personal experiences for caring for such people, I explain how using a crib to contain them and keep them safe is perfectly okay and more humane than tying them up or locking them up. The article, if you want to read it and find out how I've formulated my viewpoint is titled, "A Safe and Humane Way to Contain Your Mentally Challenged Loved One." I hope you like it.


----------



## KristinKLB (Dec 19, 2007)

The situation was different but my mom did this when we were little. My brother and I shared a room when he was 2 and I was 5 and he would climb out of his crib in the middle of the night. One night she found him getting into the cabinet in the kitchen (standing on top of his highchair to reach it) where they had put the medications and other things to keep out of his reach. He was holding a bottle of pills. After that she explained to me that she was worried for his safety and was going to put a latch on the door so he couldn't get out when my parents were asleep. She showed me how to open it. It was a hook and eye that was put on the outside, but I could reach up and unlatch it when the door was cracked. It wasn't a big deal for us. I remember my brother waking up and trying to get out and then when he couldn't, he just went back to bed. My dad is a firefighter and approved the setup.

Leaving the kids to cry and not caring is horrible, but sometimes having your kids roaming around is less safe.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom* 
I thing it depends on what she is locking the door with. Really no matter if the door is locked or if it is a gate the child is trapped in an emergency.

There can be many variables and not all people that lock their kids in are "horrible".

I have seen video tape of parents putting child gates on top of each other to lock their toddlers in the room to have the toddlers scale both.

Sleep walkers can present a special situation.

An alarm would never work for me.......I have slept through smoke detectors and hospital monitors. Yet, I can hear hear my 14 year old cough across the house at 2 am.

I think what I find disturbing about the OP post is the mom's attitude and rules.


Yeah, now that you say that, I guess that is the reason I'm so upset, too. She seems so callous about the whole thing. I can't wrap my mind around it. Also, we were not locked in our rooms growing up. This is why I find it so horrible. My mom agrees with me on that, which is why she never did that. She'd find the crib option better. After all, she knows I've cared for the mentally challenged and knows how I've handled them.

I thought I might add just in case that the abusers were not my parents. You might have figured that out by now, but I felt I needed to state that. If it weren't for my parents, I'm so scared to think of where'd I'd end up. I'd probably be dead. What a scary thought.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Aren't cribs and beds for toddlers supposed to pass pretty strict safety criteria nowadays?

ETA:
and I'm not really seeing how locking them in their room is supposed to be more cruel than just getting a kid-sized crib.


----------



## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *all in green* 
I would absolutely call CPS on her. It's a safety issue as well as one of neglect.

I agree. What if there was a fire? Or a terrible fall behind closed doors?

I never understand folks who are this selfish... why did they even have kids?


----------



## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

To the OP:

I think you did a magnificent job of responding to your friend. You may not have had an immediate impact, but you at least have her thinking.

A question: Is she a single parent? I can "understand" her need for alone time, and I wonder if there's another way to structure her house so she gets it, without having to have her kids not be responded to.

My second thought is: she sounds depressed. Any possibility there?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhiandmoi* 
Some LOs have a really hard time just staying in bed and going to sleep. It's doesn't mean they aren't tired because if you let them out to play they turn into gigantic crank monsters. So something needs to be done to actually get them to settle in for the night and go to bed. Lots of people lock their kids in the room to accomplish this.

True, that they do need to sleep. But there are other ways. You can keep (quietly) bringing them back to bed. You can sit outside their room and wordlessly redirect them.

For our kids, we stayed with them in the room while they fell asleep. I brought a book or when it was dh's turn, he brought a laptop. It wasn't the way I'd CHOOSE to spend 30 min to an hour in the evening, but it gave the kids the comfort they needed.

Now that they're a bit older, we tuck them in and then we check on them every 10-15 minutes until they're asleep (we set the timer so they know when we're going to be up).

We just got dd out of our bed at night. It was a long (several month) process of bringing her back to her bed when she got up, sitting with her while she fell asleep and doing it over again. She needed to learn not to come in to our bed because she'd (a) gotten too big and (b) developed a habit of repeatedly pushing her feet against us while she was falling back asleep (or any time she turned over), which kept dh and me from sleeping at all! Was it hard? Yes. But emotionally, she's now OK in her own bed.

And honestly, for our kids, shutting the door causes extreme panic (especially for ds, he may have inherited dh's claustrophobia, and he NEEDS to see the light in the hallway ALL NIGHT). No one would sleep if we locked the door!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grniys* 
I plan on locking my kids in their rooms when they're in toddler beds instead of cribs. <snip>but how would I ever sleep at night wondering if he's going to leave his room, climb onto the computer chair in the hallway, climb from that onto the built in computer desk, from there the hall ledge and then take a large tumble down our stairs?

There's a $10 solution: Door alarms
 If I had a climber and an escape artist, that would be my first choice. Locking the room would be a very distant second.

We always put the chain on the front door (it's too high for a toddler to reach).


----------



## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

Most of the parents that I encounter do what the OP's friend does. They find it perfectly normal. They take everything sharp, harmful, etc., out of the child's room. Then, for the night, the place them in bed, turn off the light, and close the door. If their child cries - they cry. Eventually, they fall asleep.

One of the parent's kid would fall asleep on the floor, exhausted from crying. She'd go in there, once he was out, put him back into bed, and go back to her bed.

It doesn't seem weird or wrong to any of the parents I come across.

So, as sad as this sounds ... unfortunately, it's not uncommon.


----------



## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

This reminds me of the house we lived in after #2 was born. It was very old and had sliding locks way up high on the two bedroom doors. They could only be locked and unlocked from the outside. My uncle, (whom we were renting the house from) said as a kid his mom locked he and his brother in the room that way. The locks were specifically installed to keep them in.

I think it really depends on why toddlers are being locked in their room. If it's for safetly reason's, I don't see how it could be much worse than putting them in a "cage" aka crib (including those awful crib tents). If they are being locked in their room because they are a nuisance and mom doesn't want to deal with them, then obviously that's a whole other issue and more likely neglect.

I don't have much I could do to keep my 19 month old contained in a bedroom. He can easily climb out of a play yard and crib and will scale a baby gate in half a second. Also, he figured out how to turn the lock on the door handle the 2nd time his bro locked him in a room. Maybe I should have DH install those high up locks







oh wait, he'd probably find a way to jump out the freakin window to escape!! seriously, he's figured those out as well.


----------



## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

I've got a sleepwalker. He gets out of bed and does wierd stuff about once a week. Most nights I hear him, get up and redirect him to bed. Occasionally he needs help going to the bathroom, then back to bed. He's 6.

I've never locked him in his room. I make sure our house is safe (no objects lying on the floor he could step on, etc) and I lock all exterior doors up high where he could not open them and get out.

The thought of locking him in his room never even occured to me. I understand wanting to keep your child safe, but that's going too far. And to lock your child in a room to give you a break? Unacceptable, IMO.

FTR, We only co-slept to age 2 and I transitioned ds into his own room, own bed. I'm not a fanatical co-sleeper, but I can't fathom locking a child in it's room overnight. Sad, no matter your reason.


----------



## StarMom2 (Apr 29, 2008)

Honestly, I would much rather be locked in a room than in a crib/cage. At least in a room the kids have room to move about and play. OP, what makes you think locking a kid in a cage is preferable to locking the door?


----------



## luckysam (Jan 12, 2008)

I would not report her at all. What I would do is encourage her to get as much support as she could. It's horrible to feel so overwhelmed you don't know what to do, and the kids are safe in there. And like you said, cio is not considered abuse by most people. If it bothers you still, you could kindly offer to take her kids once a week and give her a break. Not to stop what she is doing, but it sounds like it would help and who knows, if she had some help and more time to herself she may just stop doing it. Hugs to you.


----------



## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sasharna* 
Same here.

People always bring up the fire hazard, but I don't think that's anywhere near as likely as a kid playing with knives in the kitchen or running out into the street. I find it prudent to take precautions against the more likely risk. A person knows when she is the mother of a "runner" or an "escape artist" and it would be neglectful to give such a child access to an environment in which it is likely he will get himself hurt.

Cosleeping isn't a good solution for this problem in every case ...and a child who is at risk for bolting at night has probably learned to scale a baby gate before he turned a year old.

OP, it must be very rough to have a friend who seems to have adopted a harmful parenting practice for a trivial reason. Do you think it's possible that she may not have been forthcoming with you about her real reasons, if you have clashed in the past? I know I tend to avoid sharing the whys and wherefores of my actions with people who have criticized me a lot.

This, I agree with. Like loitering, I have two runners. My three yr old is a runner and sensory seeker and gets into everything. She's figured out the cabinet locks, the drawer locks and even the front door locks (slider lock at top, she'll drag a chair to it to throw the slider lock open, with deadbolts at mid-door, she knows how to do those too). She's an exceptionally smart little girl. I do not ignore her when she calls, I do not lock the door until after she's asleep (even if that means I get to bet at 2 or 3 am which is usually how it goes every night). Like my oldest who is also special needs and was a sleepwalker, I know she's going to somewhat "outgrow" this stage of her special needs issues. She'll still be a sensory seeker and autistic but the runner stage may very well subside and if not I will do everything in my power to protect her and keep her safe. Locking a child in the room (as a last option when all other options are exhausted) is very much like putting a young child in a crib they can't get out of (or playpen) and closing the door.

When I used gates, she climbed them, when I used locks on cabinets and doors (ie : backdoor, front door of house) she figured them out very easily. I've exhausted every option and yes she was coslept - all my babies were coslept. Now a days co sleeping is not an option, she doesn't sleep if she's in the same bed as us and will roam the house and that is dangerous for her. I have a set of knives that were given to me that are so sharp that just touching the blade can inflict a cut (many a time washing them by hand I've done this to myself just by simply having my hand pass by the blade in the sink of dishes) and I can't fathom her ever getting a hold of those and it not being my fault if I had not taken the extremes I have. I don't like it but it's for her own protection and her own safety.


----------



## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 

There's a $10 solution: Door alarms
 If I had a climber and an escape artist, that would be my first choice. Locking the room would be a very distant second.

We always put the chain on the front door (it's too high for a toddler to reach).

That wouldn't work in our household. Hubbs is a heavy sleeper and wouldn't wake up and I'm hearing impaired (quite significantly too), I wouldn't hear it. I did think of this but they aren't loud enough for either of us to hear. My older kids are all heavy sleepers as well so I doubt they would come get us either.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
Aren't cribs and beds for toddlers supposed to pass pretty strict safety criteria nowadays?

ETA:
and I'm not really seeing how locking them in their room is supposed to be more cruel than just getting a kid-sized crib.











Yes, the cribs do have to pass safety tests. Mike, the one who cstomizes and builds the cribs, knows all of the regulations. This is why when you call, you state what the crib will be used for so he can tailor it. There are certain regulations, such as to the design and how far the bars can be spaced apart when it comes to children and mentally challenged adults.

I think that a crib is much better than locking a child in a room for many reasons. After all, a crib is used to contain a baby and keep it out of danger. It can also be used for the same reasons to a wondering child or a mentally challenged person. It just seems more humane in my book.

I've seen experiences personall when mentally chalenged people got severely hurt when they were locked in rooms One busted out the window--kids could do this also--another hurt himself pretty badly, and another made a disasterous situation by deciding to put something in his mouth and choking. If they are in a crib with the door open or closed whatever works best, that is okay.

Please keep in mind that I'd only do this is my tot was one who wondered or had a chance of doing so. If he was good about staying in bed, or if he slept with me, I'd not eve consider it. If you want more of my reasoning behind why I believe what I do, feel free to check out my blog. I'm glad you inquired about the safety issues. If you have any more questions, keep them coming.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
I agree. What if there was a fire? Or a terrible fall behind closed doors?

EXACTLY my reasons why locking a child in a room should be illegal. This happened to a mentally challenged boy of about nine years of age. He decided to jump on his bed and have a jolly time but fell backwards and busted his head pretty bad. So many safety issues are involved as to why I'll NEVER lock a child in a room. The crib option is much better, as it will prevent many things from happening. And think of it this way, nobody would lock a baby in a room. He'd be in the crib if he is not cosleeping because it would be dangerous. In my book, and I'll never sway from this, it is equally dangerous for a tot or young child. So many things can happen behind that door, and you'd not necessarily hear them. In the crib, it is much safer, and there is less of a chance bad things can happen. I could name a long list of what could happen as a result of being locked in a room.

I never understand folks who are this selfish... why did they even have kids?


Me either. Why did they bother? They should have left the kids in God's memory and not brought them here if they are going to traumatize them and be mean to them and not give them the highest level of nurture needed for good development. And you wonder why some people turn into infantilists?... Thank their parents for them developing such a pathology. Poor souls.


----------



## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deer Hunter* 
Yes, the cribs do have to pass safety tests. Mike, the one who cstomizes and builds the cribs, knows all of the regulations. This is why when you call, you state what the crib will be used for so he can tailor it. There are certain regulations, such as to the design and how far the bars can be spaced apart when it comes to children and mentally challenged adults.

I think that a crib is much better than locking a child in a room for many reasons. After all, a crib is used to contain a baby and keep it out of danger. It can also be used for the same reasons to a wondering child or a mentally challenged person. It just seems more humane in my book.

I've seen experiences personall when mentally chalenged people got severely hurt when they were locked in rooms One busted out the window--kids could do this also--another hurt himself pretty badly, and another made a disasterous situation by deciding to put something in his mouth and choking. If they are in a crib with the door open or closed whatever works best, that is okay.

Please keep in mind that I'd only do this is my tot was one who wondered or had a chance of doing so. If he was good about staying in bed, or if he slept with me, I'd not eve consider it. If you want more of my reasoning behind why I believe what I do, feel free to check out my blog. I'm glad you inquired about the safety issues. If you have any more questions, keep them coming.









The only thing in my daughters room are stuffed animals (teddy bears), toys that cannot be choked on (big, bulky toys with no small pieces) and her bed. I've had to remove everything else because of her sensory issues and monkey butt status (I say this with love, she truly is my little monkey butt lol). The window is secured with security latches, covered over with a thick heavy blanket (and higher up, weird way they built this house) stapled and nail guned into place. The staples and nails were then hammered down to create a smooth surface where nothing was sticking out to jab her or anyone. We've even contemplated boarding that window due to issues she has but the heavy, thick blanket seems to have done the job so far.

We've "dead boxed" all the outlets, covered them with outlet protectors (the ones you have to slid the clip back with the prongs and lock into place), removed the phone jack and patched that closed with drywall, locked the closet door closed and l-bracketed her bed to the floor and wall (yes, it's that bad). This is who she is, we have had to adjust ourselves to her and accommodate her needs for safety, even if that means going to the extreme.

She has no concept of safety (even at 3 yrs old), she has no concept of "that will hurt me" even when we have been redirecting over and over - she is a sensory seeker - she seeks it out whether it's bad for her health or not. I've already had a scare with cleaning products with her in the past before we took extreme measures and I will not do that again. I must be responsible for her safety, it is my obligation (and privilege) as her parent to do so.


----------



## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovingmommyhood* 
I think you're WAY over-reacting. Babies sleep in cribs in their own rooms. Door open or closed they can't "get out in case of a fire" either. Just sayin'.

And for fire safety reasons, all bedroom doors SHOULD BE CLOSED at night--call your local fire department and ask about it, if you don't believe me. Don't you remember fire safety lessons from childhood? (Remember how to check your doorknob to see if the door is safe to open? That presumes the door is shut, because the door should be shut.)

Bedroom doors have a level of fire retardation built in (building code). Open doors allow a fire to travel through the open spaces in the house very, very quickly. Closed doors prevent fire spread and help keep the smoke down in each bedroom space.

Firefighters will focus on the obvious bedrooms first if called to response to a middle of the night fire. Keeping bedroom doors shut means that you're more likely to survive for rescue.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sailor* 
Most of the parents that I encounter do what the OP's friend does. They find it perfectly normal. They take everything sharp, harmful, etc., out of the child's room. Then, for the night, the place them in bed, turn off the light, and close the door. If their child cries - they cry. Eventually, they fall asleep.

One of the parent's kid would fall asleep on the floor, exhausted from crying. She'd go in there, once he was out, put him back into bed, and go back to her bed.

It doesn't seem weird or wrong to any of the parents I come across.

So, as sad as this sounds ... unfortunately, it's not uncommon.










Wow! Many parents actually do this?...

I'm so glad I'm not their child because I'd probably be traumatized, panicked, and God knows what. I always slept with my parents when I was a child for these reasons. I had a lot of anxiety and still do, especially if I know I can't get out of somewhere such as a locked room.

My aunt did this to my cousin when I was little. I found out about it and ran home to my mother. Boy was she angry. I agree with her. How could someone do this--lock the child in a room and let them cry. They are obviously crying out of fear, panick, and for many other reasons. I know I"d be the stubborn type, as I'd probably lie there and kick the door. I've always been one to stand up against things I did not like, and I do things until I get a result or a change. I don't give up. Anyone that knows me can tell you of my severe stubbornness. I don't see that trait going any time soon.

I was the type of child that would make a person's life miserable if they did something to scare me or something that upset me. That is Aspergers for you. Children and adults with this tend to act out in extremes. It would be a horrible thing if these parents have an Autistic/Aspergers child, as the consequences of their actions could be severe.


----------



## Getz (May 22, 2005)

I always thought the safer thing to do was keep the bedroom doors closed at night in case of a fire (in another area of the home). It would slow down flames/smoke from entering the room? *shrugs*

Anyway, I don't know if it is locking the door that is the issue so much that it is the kids being left to scream and cry behind the door. That must be very frightening. I can't imagine doing that to my kids.

My kids each have their own room (by their own preference). My little one is in the crib. And I put a baby gate in my son's door (he has a full sized bed). He will go to the gate and yell for me. I don't like shutting the doors because I can't hear them that way. My son can push the gate out if he really wants too, but has only done it once or twice.

I have locked BOTH of us in his room when he is super exhausted and doesn't want to settle down. I lay in the bed (the full size is extremely convenient!) and read books aloud or play his little electronic phonics game. He does throw a fit and it upset the door is locked but in a few minutes he lays down with me to read/play and I stay there until he falls asleep.

It would terrify me to be locked in a room against my will. I think it would be even more terrifying for a child.

So I guess the issue isn't locking the kids in the room but doing so when they are upset by it. If the kid is fine with the door being shut (and locked) I can't imagine it being a real issue.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
This reminds me of the house we lived in after #2 was born. It was very old and had sliding locks way up high on the two bedroom doors. They could only be locked and unlocked from the outside. My uncle, (whom we were renting the house from) said as a kid his mom locked he and his brother in the room that way. The locks were specifically installed to keep them in.

I think it really depends on why toddlers are being locked in their room. If it's for safetly reason's, I don't see how it could be much worse than putting them in a "cage" aka crib (including those awful crib tents). If they are being locked in their room because they are a nuisance and mom doesn't want to deal with them, then obviously that's a whole other issue and more likely neglect.

I don't have much I could do to keep my 19 month old contained in a bedroom. He can easily climb out of a play yard and crib and will scale a baby gate in half a second. Also, he figured out how to turn the lock on the door handle the 2nd time his bro locked him in a room. Maybe I should have DH install those high up locks







oh wait, he'd probably find a way to jump out the freakin window to escape!! seriously, he's figured those out as well.


Exactly why I feel that locking them in a room is unsafe, very unsafe. I was opening windows perfectly at the age of two. I'd become so scared if I was locked in anywhere, and that probably would have been what I'd have done. I'd think that I found a way out, not realizing the danger, and jump. I have always been, and still am, very impulsive, especially when feeling threatened and/or panicked. That just agrivates it more and causes me not to think, as I'll just act on instinct. I've always been this way.

If my children were using the crib, I'd more than likely keep the crib in the same room I'm in so they can see me at all times. If they were okay in their own room, and they'd not cry and feel scared, they they can be in their own room. But, if I see that they are not okay with it in the smallest bit, I'm not going to force them to sleep alone.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mistymama* 
I've got a sleepwalker. He gets out of bed and does wierd stuff about once a week. Most nights I hear him, get up and redirect him to bed. Occasionally he needs help going to the bathroom, then back to bed. He's 6.

I've never locked him in his room. I make sure our house is safe (no objects lying on the floor he could step on, etc) and I lock all exterior doors up high where he could not open them and get out.

The thought of locking him in his room never even occured to me. I understand wanting to keep your child safe, but that's going too far. And to lock your child in a room to give you a break? Unacceptable, IMO.

FTR, We only co-slept to age 2 and I transitioned ds into his own room, own bed. I'm not a fanatical co-sleeper, but I can't fathom locking a child in it's room overnight. Sad, no matter your reason.










I agree with you two hundred percent. I wanted to say these things, too, but I could not find the nicest way, so I did not say them. I figured I'd come back and revisit it and find a way to say that, as I don't want to offend anyone here. After all, I came for help.

You said everything I wanted to say. Thank you.

I still support that it should be illegal. Sorry, parents, but I do.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *luckysam* 
I would not report her at all. What I would do is encourage her to get as much support as she could. It's horrible to feel so overwhelmed you don't know what to do, and the kids are safe in there. And like you said, cio is not considered abuse by most people. If it bothers you still, you could kindly offer to take her kids once a week and give her a break. Not to stop what she is doing, but it sounds like it would help and who knows, if she had some help and more time to herself she may just stop doing it. Hugs to you.










We already talked about that. I just said to her, "I'd like to help you out and come to stay with you." I thought that this would help rather than offend. I have an infamous amount of patience when it comes to kids. Perhaps, it stems from what happened to me when I was a child?...


----------



## Missinnyc (Aug 21, 2003)

Quote:

After they are asleep, I open their doors and if they get up, they get up. I
I just went to a training in fire safety and the firefighters really stressed that everyone should sleep with their doors shut (not locked). They said that doors save lives- many times the only thing that keeps kids from death is that their door is shut and the fire takes longer to get in.


----------



## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissinNYC* 
I just went to a training in fire safety and the firefighters really stressed that everyone should sleep with their doors shut (not locked). They said that doors save lives- many times the only thing that keeps kids from death is that their door is shut and the fire takes longer to get in.

That's why I see all these suggestions of putting a gate in the open door of a prone-to-escape toddler as dangerous . . . people have to think about how fire is going to "flow" through their house. If a fire starts downstairs in a typical two story house, it's going to flow up the staircase into the upstairs hallway, and in a typical house setup (in the US) blocking all bedrooms from one another. The upstairs hallway is the death trap.

Doors shut in that situation means best chances for survival. Locked does make it less safe--it cuts off one escape route, although in the case I've described, nobody is escaping via the upstairs hallway anyhow--not still not as unsafe as open doors.


----------



## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

I had to resort to locking my daughter's door when she was between 1 and 2. She had learned to climb out of her crib and would get up/sleepwalk all during the night. We tried gates, sleeping with her, sleeping outside her door on the floor and nothing worked. I also had a 3 and 4 year old at the time and needed some sleep at night, besides being worried I wouldn't hear her get up and she would get hurt and try to get out the doors. We put bells on all the outside doors and the panic you feel when you hear those bells in the middle of the night isn't easy on a mother. She finally learned how to settle herself for the night and we could unlock her door. She still sleptwalked (is that a word?) until she was a teenager, so the bells stayed on the doors. She is now 26 and not the least bit traumitized by having her door locked. I think most parents do the best they can for their situations and I don't feel locking their doors (as long as you respond when they really need you) is abuse at all.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *all in green* 
I would absolutely call CPS on her. It's a safety issue as well as one of neglect.









:


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sailor* 
Most of the parents that I encounter do what the OP's friend does. They find it perfectly normal. They take everything sharp, harmful, etc., out of the child's room. Then, for the night, the place them in bed, turn off the light, and close the door. If their child cries - they cry. Eventually, they fall asleep.

One of the parent's kid would fall asleep on the floor, exhausted from crying. She'd go in there, once he was out, put him back into bed, and go back to her bed.

It doesn't seem weird or wrong to any of the parents I come across.

So, as sad as this sounds ... unfortunately, it's not uncommon.










That's not the same as actually locking the door, though.


----------



## Murihiku (Oct 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie* 
I don't feel locking their doors _(*as long as you respond when they really need you*)_ is abuse at all.

I've had my kneejerk reaction to locked doors modified by reading this thread, and I think this sentence now summarizes my new position (although I would remove the qualifier "really"). Children are different and require different safety measures I guess. A locked door is an unnecessary danger, _unless_ an unlocked door is more dangerous--as it might be in some cases. I do still think what the OP's friend is doing is abusive.


----------



## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

this makes me so sad. i just cant imagine as a kid being left in a room alone.







i guess this is one of the many benefits of cosleeping with kids.


----------



## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I haven't read all responses.
My dd has always been a child who doesn't sleep at night. When she gets into things it is expensive and destructive. It was suggested that I lock her in her room.
My solution was to stay awake with her. It's pretty hard to do that sometimes and it would be impossible if I couldn't sleep when she did. I understand the temptation to lock the door and get some sleep. I consider actually locking the door too much of a safety hazard though.

I wonder if a door alarm might help? or a reward chart- stay in bed and get rewarded?


----------



## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
this makes me so sad. i just cant imagine as a kid being left in a room alone.







i guess this is one of the many benefits of cosleeping with kids.









I coslept all of my 5 babies until they either asked to have their own space or until it became a safety issue. Cosleeping is *not* the issue here. Safety is the issue here. I find that incredibly offensive and completely judgmental.

I can't believe some of the ignorant comments being made, it's like that old saying "until you've walked a mile in their shoes, mind your own".


----------



## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

My dd doesn't want to cosleep. She likes her crib. She sleep MUCH better in there alone, and I sleep MUCH better in my bed alone.

I have a baby monitor on, and I go in the second she cries for me.

Her room is next to a dangerous staircase, and there is no way to gate this particular staircase. As soon as she is big enough to climb out of her crib and/or transitions to a big bed, I will be locking her door b/c I'm afraid she would creep out quietly and fall down the staircase without me waking up.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cotopaxi* 
My dd doesn't want to cosleep. She likes her crib. She sleep MUCH better in there alone, and I sleep MUCH better in my bed alone.

I have a baby monitor on, and I go in the second she cries for me.

Her room is next to a dangerous staircase, and there is no way to gate this particular staircase. As soon as she is big enough to climb out of her crib and/or transitions to a big bed, I will be locking her door b/c I'm afraid she would creep out quietly and fall down the staircase without me waking up.

I'm having a hard time imagining a staircase that can't be gated.

OneStepAhead has lots of gate options:

http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/...217&view=10000

including this one:

http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/...tegoryId=85217


----------



## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I'm having a hard time imagining a staircase that can't be gated.

OneStepAhead has lots of gate options:

http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/...217&view=10000

including this one:

http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/...tegoryId=85217


If she's big enough to climb out of her crib she can easily climb over a gate.


----------



## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

Deer Hunter,

I think we've gotten off topic, but I do agree with you that your friend's reasoning is more the problem then the act of locking/lactching bedroom doors.

Hopefully, these toddlers will be in preschool soon and their mother can get her break without ignoring her kids.


----------



## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
If she's big enough to climb out of her crib she can easily climb over a gate.

Or open it.

Le babe started climbing over any gate with a bar in the middle (so, any of the tension gates) at 13 months. He demonstrated at 26 months that he knew how to open our tall walk-through gate (one of the attached ones that doesn't have a bar in the middle; you have to push in a lever, lift the gate an inch and open it) at the top of the stairs. He learned how to get out of his room without making a noise the monitor would pick up at about 16 months.

I consider myself lucky, because all he does right now is make it down to the couch and start shouting "mommy, george tv please!"


----------



## StarMom2 (Apr 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie* 
I think most parents do the best they can for their situations and I don't feel locking their doors (as long as you respond when they really need you) is abuse at all.

I agree with this.

Frankly, I am rather appalled that so many have suggested calling CPS over this issue. They exist for instances of REAL abuse, and this is not it. Most parents try to do what is best for their kids and themselves. Locking doors to keep kids in their rooms at night is a relatively common practice and is not abuse in most circumstances.

If you don't want people calling CPS on you for your practices you believe are best for your kids, why suggest calling CPS on others who are trying to do their best also? I expected more compassion and understanding from the parents on this forum. If you want the freedom to raise your children the way you see fit, you should allow others the same right.


----------



## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

My best friend STILL locks her ds' door at night. Hes 5.







:

She is extremely GD, and homeschools. But she still locks him in at night.

I have never said anythng to her about it. Shes not a bad parent. She just knows he has ADHD and will get up in the night and do things when she is asleep. Do I agree with it? No. But would I call CPS on her for that or lose a friendship over it? NO WAY.


----------



## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

I have not read ANY responses just the OP's first post and all I can say in my opinion *it is abuse*. Period. I am just speechless. Just speechless.


----------



## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

I have to say I don't agree with locking a toddler in their room at night alone, I'd be so paranoid about a fire. You know that here in WA there have been at least close to 10 children in the past month who have died in fires. They just didn't get out of the house. One family lost all 3 of their DDs in a fire, another family lost 2 of 7 children, and so did another the other day. Calling CPS, well I wouldn't do that, but I would be calling your friend and trying to talk some sense into her.

I also feel bad for the little guy who is potty trained and he has to use his little potty in his room, my DD wakes up once a night to go potty and my DH usually takes her down. I can't imagine just putting the potty in her room, but that's just me.

For me locking the doors is a safety issue, just seeing all those poor families recently whose children died in fires makes this bothersome. House fires are inherently fast moving and very dangerous.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Murihiku* 
I've had my kneejerk reaction to locked doors modified by reading this thread, and I think this sentence now summarizes my new position (although I would remove the qualifier "really"). Children are different and require different safety measures I guess. A locked door is an unnecessary danger, _unless_ an unlocked door is more dangerous--as it might be in some cases. I do still think what the OP's friend is doing is abusive.


I still hold my position in that I'll NEVER lock my child's door. It was not done to me, so I will not do it to them. I would not want that done to me. I would do unto child as I want done to me, and I'd rather stay in a crib instead of being locked in a room. My experience with special needs people, as well as children along with my own childhood has formulated my strong stand on this.

One time, when I was in the infirmary in the special needs residential school I attended in childhood, I was placed in the crib to sleep since that I was small--still am the same size as I was in fourth grade--and they needed to reserve the beds for those of average height. I complied, as I understood, but the nurses were just a call away. It was a youth crib--the cage that you saw. It was not the inviting customized crib. They kept the door open so I was not so scared, as it was already nerve racking being trapped. It also helped that I had my cell phone with me. That was very reassuring. I kept books along with some coloring books and some toys with me. I was fourteen at the time in my freshman year of high school.

In the special needs school I attended, it was against school policy to lock children in their rooms. Staff that did it got in severe, and I mean severe trouble. The crib option was always taken if a child was a wonderer, and there were many of those considering the school was for special needs children.

I loved that school. I've learned and experienced so much there. I would not trade that experience for the world.


----------



## mommyto3girls (May 3, 2005)

When my oldest was between 2 and 31/2 I had a safety knob on the inside of her door (basically locking her in because she could not open it) I did it for safety reasons, if my house caught on fire I do not want my toddler wandering around and me searching for her. If she could not get out then the only place she could be in case of fire was right there in her room! Once she was old enough to understand to stay put and mommy or daddy would come get her if anything happened I removed the knob.

That said, I did not shut the door tight until she was already asleep and there was a monitor in her room that she knew she could talk into and I would come right away.

None of the kids have their doors shut anymore but we have a tri-level, kids on top level, dh and I on lower level. We still keep a monitor in the bathroom on their level so they can ask for us at night. (better yet is that for the most part they will now just come down stairs and crawl in bed with us without waking us


----------



## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

In the issue of a fire I would think it would be much more dangerous for a toddler to be able to get out of their room before the parent's could get to them. I say this because I would assume the child would get scared and run for a closet or somewhere. Then you go to get your child and get out of the house and you can't find him. He could be anywhere... upstairs, downstairs, a bathroom, a closet, under a bed... you just wouldn't know. I'd have to think it would be much, much more dangerous.


----------



## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissinNYC* 
I just went to a training in fire safety and the firefighters really stressed that everyone should sleep with their doors shut (not locked). They said that doors save lives- many times the only thing that keeps kids from death is that their door is shut and the fire takes longer to get in.

So what do you do if your child is terrified of sleeping with the door closed? (This is the case for ds. It's not a rational fear. He tends toward anxiety, and I really don't want to push it.)


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
this makes me so sad. i just cant imagine as a kid being left in a room alone.







i guess this is one of the many benefits of cosleeping with kids.


And a goo mother, such as mine, that listened to her children. Yes, my mother believes in CIO, unfortunately, and we've had many good discussions about our differences. But because of my special needs, I was always with my parents. I can only remember one night where I was left alone in the crib that was in my parents room to CIO at two-and-a-half. I remember soiling my diaper and being terrified. I could tell you where exactly the crib was and how I was lying. I was lying on my left side with my fists balled in the fetal position. No relief was forthcoming. I don't remember it ever happening again after that. I spent most of my babyhood in hospital, and I was pretty much always with my parents, however, I was around to see my siblings go through some pretty tough bouts of CIO. I remember one experience that traumitized me to this day of my younger sister screaming in her crib for over an hour. She was so upset that she began shaking the crib. It was hitting the wall and rattling back and forth. Nobody came to rescue her. It was too much for me that I shut myself in my room, threw myself down and cried until it stopped. Since as a small child, I even had enough common sense that you did not do that to a baby.

When my mother had our last heart to heart conversation about CIO and stuff, I told her my memories, and I could see that it pained her. I explained my reasons for not believing in it and how I will never do that to any child in my care or any child I give birth to. Never will my child have to get so distressed that he has to shake his crib back and forth. That is a bit much.

My sister was not the only child that did that. My BF told me about his Ex-wife's family. Before he met me, he was mainstream. He believed in letting a child CIO. He said that every night and for naps, they'd put the child to bed, let him scream, and when he'd rattle the crib like taht, my BF would go into the child's room, firmly tell him to cut it out and knock it off, and grab his legs out from under him to make him lie down. Because of the type of person my BF is, and because he is so receptive and calm and has been more than understanding of my autism, I never became raged at him, even whe he told me things like that. I've just talked it out. We've had disagreements but have never argued. We believing in calmly settling things and finding a solution. He is one of the very few people that I don't become enraged at. He is one of the few that I can calmly talk things through. Thankfully, he now thinks on my level after I've explained to him, and he now is more than considerate to the baby's needs for comfort. He hates himself for what he did in the past. But I've told him, "How can you hate yourself if that is all you knew? It is so sad because you were misled. You were misled because it is not in your nature to hurt someone because you are so sweet and considerate. You just thought it was to be done. The good thing is that you were willing to accept correction and you saw through it. Your common sense told you it was wrong and you were human about it. Don't beat yourself up about the past. You move forward now and continue to do the right thing. I have faith in you."

We plan to get married and make our own family.

Sorry for the rant. I felt those experiences had to be shared, as it coincided with everything.


----------



## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie* 
I had to resort to locking my daughter's door when she was between 1 and 2. She had learned to climb out of her crib and would get up/sleepwalk all during the night.


I would argue that in cases of "special needs", i.e. sleep-walking or hard of hearing parents, then it's a different story. Locking the door is a last resort, not your first choice to get some time to yourself.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StarMom2* 
Honestly, I would much rather be locked in a room than in a crib/cage. At least in a room the kids have room to move about and play. OP, what makes you think locking a kid in a cage is preferable to locking the door?

What makes you think that all kids hate cribs? My ds loved his crib. He stayed in it, by HIS choice, until age FIVE. And even then, we only got him out of it by taking it down when we painted his room and not putting it back up. I think he'd STILL be sleeping in it today if we let him!

For our ds, his crib was a safe, secure place that protected him from sensory overload. For dd it wasn't. Ds used a crib, dd didn't much.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
So what do you do if your child is terrified of sleeping with the door closed? (This is the case for ds. It's not a rational fear. He tends toward anxiety, and I really don't want to push it.)


The same thing I wanted to ask. My little sister slept with her door open for the longest time. Maybe it was because she was forced to CIO all alone in her crib, who knows? But that is what she did. My parents never forced the issue. She slept with the door wide open with the hall light on.


----------



## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

I can see what you are saying, I just wouldn't feel comfortable knowing my child was locked in their room. I think that the saddest thing about many of these fires were the kids were in their rooms, they just didn't get out. House fires are scary.

I just don't really agree with locking the door, but I also am a mom who co-slept with DD until she was 2 and now she sleeps in a room attached to ours.


----------



## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
I would argue that in cases of "special needs", i.e. sleep-walking or hard of hearing parents, then it's a different story. Locking the door is a last resort, not your first choice to get some time to yourself.

What makes you think that all kids hate cribs? My ds loved his crib. He stayed in it, by HIS choice, until age FIVE. And even then, we only got him out of it by taking it down when we painted his room and not putting it back up. I think he'd STILL be sleeping in it today if we let him!

For our ds, his crib was a safe, secure place that protected him from sensory overload. For dd it wasn't. Ds used a crib, dd didn't much.

I think the person you quoted on that part was talking about the cribs for older kids. I'd never put my kid in one of those, either, though my ds sleeps in his regular crib every night.


----------



## amandaleigh37 (Jul 13, 2006)

How very sad









I think the major difference here is that the OP isn't talking about a parent who locks the door at night for safety concerns. This isn't a parent who is right next door, and has a monitor on so she can respond quickly if her children need her. It isn't a matter of the child knocking on the door in the morning so mommy can come get him.

I think it's terrible that the OP's friend is treating her children this way. I wonder what time she puts them in there at night, expecting them to not come out until morning? It sounds like she never got the memo that you are STILL A PARENT AT NIGHT. You can't just lock your kids in a room and ignore them so you can rest or do other things. It's cruel.

We put our dog in the laundry room at night, behind a gate. He has food, water, and his bed. But even if he barked or needed us during the night, we would get up and go to him...


----------



## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *funkymamajoy* 
We put a child lock on the inside of DS's door too. He would get up and wander around the house without waking us up. We were afraid he would leave the house as he was tall enough and smart enough to unlock and open the outside doors.







:

But we always responded to him if he called for us.

We have one on the inside of Paddy and Henri's room too. At our old house, their door got left open one night and I didn't know it. I felt something was up and I woke up to go check on Paddy and HE WASN'T THERE. I freaked out and started looking for him. I found him asleep downstairs, where I also found things on the floor he had gotten into that could have hurt him (and yes I THOUGHT he couldn't get to those things-they were sewing supplies!, but he got to them) But it was very scary.

The boys share a bedroom, and in the morning they get up and play with each other and act silly (I'm always awakened by insane giggling







). They aren't in there long because once I get up, I go down and get them ready for the day. I can always hear them at night and if anyone wakes up, DH or I are there for them immediately.

Paddy is getting old enough now that I don't worry about him wandering around at night, but Henri is still too young. Paddy sleeps in the playroom for naps, and I just leave the door open. In another year or so I'll probably be able to take the doorknob thing off, but until I am absolutely certain that they are mature enough to not go wandering and getting into trouble at night, the lock stays on.

I don't feel bad about my decision at all. I always care for my children at night, I would never just ignore their cries or say 'its my time, so I'm putting you in here and not letting you out"-that IS cruel.

And no, co-sleeping is not an option because we're co-sleeping with our 5 month old baby. Adding a 2 and 3 year old to the mix would just not be possible, and they wouldn't want to sleep with us anyhow


----------



## Sasharna (Nov 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Murihiku* 
I've had my kneejerk reaction to locked doors modified by reading this thread, and I think this sentence now summarizes my new position (although I would remove the qualifier "really").

It's nice to see that some people actually take other people's experiences into consideration in forming their own opinions.

Some didn't even bother to read the thread. It's disappointing how many people choose to deny or disregard the existence of any bit of evidence that might threaten their own pre-conceived notions. As mothers are entrusted with the intellectual development of their children, one would think they would all place great importance on modeling the ability to think critically, with full consideration of the facts at hand.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
I would argue that in cases of "special needs", i.e. sleep-walking or hard of hearing parents, then it's a different story. Locking the door is a last resort, not your first choice to get some time to yourself.

What makes you think that all kids hate cribs? My ds loved his crib. He stayed in it, by HIS choice, until age FIVE. And even then, we only got him out of it by taking it down when we painted his room and not putting it back up. I think he'd STILL be sleeping in it today if we let him!

For our ds, his crib was a safe, secure place that protected him from sensory overload. For dd it wasn't. Ds used a crib, dd didn't much.


I did not hate my crib. I was one of the lucky kids that was kept in my parents' room. The crib was near their bed. I only remember being left to CIO once, and that still haunts me to this day, but all else was good memories. I guess there are benefits to being special needs, as I was not put through what my siblings were in the department of CIO and the like. Perhaps, that is why they were so happy to get beds and get out o their crib. My reason for liking the crib could have been that I always had my parents in the same room at night and that I did not associate it with being isolated and cut off and being left to cry in fear. It could have been anything.

As a matter of fact, I felt secure in a baby crib. I'm not sure why. I knew I could climb out if needed. I can remember when my mother desperately needed me to sleep in my own room most of the time, though she did not mind the occasional crawl in the bed, she got me a crib and playpen at my request, as that is what I said I wanted. She was on her last child and needed to tend to her. She was an infant, and I was nine and a half when she was born. My mom felt it fitting for me to move on to my own room but said I could sleep with her when I felt I needed her. But at ten years of age, I gave that up altogether, as I felt okay sleeping without her; however, when I did craw into bed, it was like once or twice a week on average. For some reason, my strange requests is what I wanted to make me feel comfortable. Now that we know that autism/aspergers makes one very eccentric. But looking back on things, I'm so glad my mother followed all of my eccentricities, as strange as they were, not trying to force me into a mold that I was not. Her friend, also the mother of my friend, also kept a crib at her house for when I came over. Often times, my friend joined me there to sleep with me.

Thankfully, my parents and those around me that loved me never chastized me for my strange wants and desires. They were always supportive. My mom, though she did some things that upset me and I now understand why she did them, always wanted to make me happy. She strove to do that, even if it was a strange request. I will always remember her for that, and I'll do the same for my kids. I'm so thankful that I was allowed to be me and live them out. I'm so sad that other children do not have that luxury, as parents force them to conform to a social mold, even if it is uncomfortable to them. I've seen it even happen to autistic kids, and it is so unfair, as for the rest of their lives, people with autism/aspergers are going to need odd things to feel comforted.

Right now, I'm particulary attached to one doll. If I lose her, I'd freak out. She has to go with me to doctors appointments and to the dentist, as well as to the hospital. She has been bled on, chewed on by teething babies and toddlers--I let them have her when they were sad because I was right there with them, and since she provides me comfort, I know she will do the same for those babies and toddlers--snotted on from me crying while holding her and from toddlers who had runny noses, dropped, tossed about, adn so much more. Yet, I love her. I'm twenty-four almost, but it doesn't matter because I need to do what will help me cope. Trying to be something I'm not will only agrivate things. Yes, my parents supported CIO, and you guys know my feelings on that, but in all other things, I'm not sure what I'd do without them. I'm blessed I am their child. My mom, aside from some flaws but who doesn't have them, has allowed me to engage in any strange things that I feel are special interests at the time no matter my age without criticism. Thanks, mom! I love you. Now I know why I have an easier time coping than some people. It was my upbringing. My mother had to have been very tough, as I'm sure she was criticised deeply by others for allowing me to do what I did. Way to go, mom for standing up for me!


----------



## StarMom2 (Apr 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
I would argue that in cases of "special needs", i.e. sleep-walking or hard of hearing parents, then it's a different story. Locking the door is a last resort, not your first choice to get some time to yourself.

What makes you think that all kids hate cribs? My ds loved his crib. He stayed in it, by HIS choice, until age FIVE. And even then, we only got him out of it by taking it down when we painted his room and not putting it back up. I think he'd STILL be sleeping in it today if we let him!

For our ds, his crib was a safe, secure place that protected him from sensory overload. For dd it wasn't. Ds used a crib, dd didn't much.

I absolutely did not say that *all kids hate cribs*. I said I would rather be in a room than in one of those larger cage cribs. My kids both slept in cribs and did not mind them at all. I am talking about older children and the discussion about locking them in a room or in a cage. Personally, I would find the cage more abusive than locking a child in a room.


----------



## alicia622 (May 8, 2005)

I haven't read all the responses.

I would also make a CPS report. I think locking kids in their room is very dangerous. I have no idea what CPS would do with my report but I'd call anyway. I'd also tell the person how dangerous it is if there was a fire.


----------



## svmaine (Dec 29, 2006)

My stomach flipped when I read this, Holy







!!!!! Never mind any other possible reason to allow this to continue...sleepwalking, mom's sanity...whatever, I can't imagine that locking a child in a bedroom for the whole night, especially while the other adults are sleeping, is safe, legal, and humane







!!! I would be talking to some of the local firemen, calling CPS..., even if the adults were awake, what if there was a fire between where the adults were and the kids, or the fire started in their room? What if something medically wrong happened to the adult and the kids were stuck in their room? What if, what if, what if...my DH sometimes calls me paranoid but horrible things do sometimes happen and there is no way that locking children in their rooms while asleep is ok, for safety reasons, mental reasons (C'mon we've all read/heard about VC Andrews books







). Those kids are going to be scarred mentally for life, hopefully not physically







.

Yep, as a PP said, speechless, horrified and sad.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:

As a matter of fact, I felt secure in a baby crib. I'm not sure why. I knew I could climb out if needed. I can remember when my mother desperately needed me to sleep in my own room most of the time, though she did not mind the occasional crawl in the bed, *she got me a crib and playpen at my request, as that is what I said I wanted.* She was on her last child and needed to tend to her. She was an infant, and *I was nine and a half* when she was born.
So if you slept in the crib, what did you do in the playpen when you were nine and a half years old?


----------



## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I'm having a hard time imagining a staircase that can't be gated.

Well, I'm not making things up.

It's a weird, midcentury modern house that is more beautiful than practical. I've had two different contracters over to look at it - I told them no budget, if they could find a solution I'd pay for it - and they couldn't think of anything we could do with it. Basically there is no railing on either side for the first few steps, and it's in the middle of a large room, no walls nearby to mount anything too. And they are open steps, the kind with no back on them that kind of just hang in the air. And the floor beneath is hard slate stone, so a fall would be horrible, not just like sliding down the carpeted stairs in my parents' house. If she just caught a foot wrong, she could go sliding through the opening and smack onto the slate.

The upstairs part is gateable, and I paid over $1000 to have a permanent, very securely wall-mounted, very tall gate installed there for her safety. Our house is kind of backwards, with the kitchen, etc. upstairs and the bedrooms all downstairs, so we spend most of the day upstairs with the staircase gate up.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Norasmomma* 
I have to say I don't agree with locking a toddler in their room at night alone, I'd be so paranoid about a fire.

I can't imagine my nonverbal toddler would have a clue what to do in case of a fire whether her door was locked or not. Obviously my first move in a fire would be to sprint to her room. If anything I'd rather have her in there where I knew she was, with the door shielding some of the fire and smoke, than possibly wandering around the house. By the time she has enough understanding to react properly in case of a fire, I expect she will also be capable of climbing the stairs safely alone too, in which case I won't be locking her door anymore.


----------



## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *svmaine* 
My stomach flipped when I read this, Holy







!!!!! Never mind any other possible reason to allow this to continue...sleepwalking, mom's sanity...whatever, I can't imagine that locking a child in a bedroom for the whole night, especially while the other adults are sleeping, is safe, legal, and humane







!!! I would be talking to some of the local firemen, calling CPS..., even if the adults were awake, what if there was a fire between where the adults were and the kids, or the fire started in their room? What if something medically wrong happened to the adult and the kids were stuck in their room? What if, what if, what if...my DH sometimes calls me paranoid but horrible things do sometimes happen and there is no way that locking children in their rooms while asleep is ok, for safety reasons, mental reasons (C'mon we've all read/heard about VC Andrews books







). Those kids are going to be scarred mentally for life, hopefully not physically







.

Yep, as a PP said, speechless, horrified and sad.

*sigh* You obviously don't have a sleepwalker, runner or special needs child (think sensory seekers or children who will walk out that door just to go for a "stroll").

You need to read the whole thread first not just gleen whatever it is you want to and use it out of context to jump up on a soapbox and scream bloody neglect\abuse.

I'd have to say, I'm damned glad you don't live near me because I'd be damned if I do and damned if I don't. If I don't do what I do my 3 year old would be out on a busy street laugh and giggling at cars swerving around her because it's funny to her and I do you'd call on me for locking the door in a safe manner when she's asleep (even if that means I'm up until 3 am with her up and down out of bed until she does fall asleep) so that I can at least function the next day with that same special needs child who is full of energy even if she does run on "sleep fumes".

It's attitudes like this that make society a "how may I judge you" aka shoot now rather than a "how may I help you" or aka ask questions later type of society.

Walk a mile in someone elses shoes first before you cast your stones in your glass house.







:


----------



## AutumnAir (Jun 10, 2008)

If the OP's friend is locking her kids in their room in order to facilitate her not having to deal with them when she doesn't feel like it, then, to me, that is the same as CIO.

What's the difference between locking a kid in a room or leaving a baby in a cot/crib to cry? A baby in a cot can cry but can't get out of the cot to physically bother their parents. An older child is capable of getting out of bed and coming to physically wake their parents up. I can imagine parents who have spent the baby year(s) ignoring their child's cries in their cot, would be less than impressed at having to deal with a child who can actually come and demand their attention in person - so the locked room becomes a substitute for the cot as a place for the child to cry without 'bothering' their parents. I strongly disagree with such practices, but unfortunately this type of attitude is prevalent in society now. The majority of parents seem to believe that they only need to be parents during the daytime hours.

But just as many parents use a cot to contain their baby and allow them to sleep safely without ever leaving them to CIO in it, I would imagine that many parents also lock their older children into their rooms while still remaining responsive to their night-time needs. There is a huge difference IMO - and it's all to do with the parents' reasons for 'containing' their child, and their responses to their child's needs/cries while they are contained.

My parents locked me into my room every night from the age of about 2 to 7. When I was 2 I started sleep-walking and fell down the stairs one night. I don't blame my parents in the least for locking me in - I think it was a sensible decision on their behalf, and I actually felt safer for it, knowing that I wouldn't hurt myself in my sleep again. When I sleepwalked and the door was locked I would apparently just go back to sleep again. I also woke very early and had to wait for a couple of hours before my parents woke to come and let me out, but I didn't mind. I had toys and books in my room and I was happy to sit and play or read. However, if I had been really bothered or upset by being locked in, e.g. claustrophobia, I'm sure my parents would have come up with an alternative solution to keep me safe and happy.

With regards to it being a fire hazard; some PPs have already mentioned that closed doors are good protection against fire. I wouldn't want a toddler to be able to run from their room into the hallway, as they would be far more at risk there, and also much more difficult to find. It's also well-known that the reason most children don't get out of a burning house is nothing to do with locked doors, but simply to do with the fact that young children panic in such a situation and hide. Firemen know to look under beds and in wardrobes in children's rooms when there's a fire. However, a child who had escaped from their room and hidden somewhere else would be more difficult to find in time. But that's just my opinion - I am prepared to be corrected on this.


----------



## MOMYS (Nov 5, 2008)

Did anyone here who goes on about the fire danger read that it is actually BETTER to have the bedroom doors closed?????

I cannot make a judgement on someone's parenting from something that they said to someone else (and that I didn't overhear). If she has been criticized in the past, she might have just been flippant, not serious!

I don't lock my kids in their rooms, BUT I will do so if I feel that they were a danger to themselves!


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MOMYS* 
Did anyone here who goes on about the fire danger read that it is actually BETTER to have the bedroom doors closed?????

But what if you can't get to them quickly because you can't quickly find the key in a fire?


----------



## CtMom (Jan 14, 2003)

I equate having a secure place where a child sleeps to requiring a carseat. Same goal -- child's safety. I think it's fine for people to deal with their children as they see appropriate, barring abuse.

Do we not look more critically at a parent who does not enforce carseat usage because their child doesn't like it, feels trapped, can't face the front, etc.? If a secured door, in your opinion, makes your child safer, than it is your decision.

This does not qualify for abuse in my book, but I understand there are many points of view.


----------



## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
But what if you can't get to them quickly because you can't quickly find the key in a fire?

What key? turn the lock, or lift the latch, or slide the slide lock and open the door. I don't think anyone here uses a key lock. They've turned the doorknob around so the button for the lock is on the outside of the door.


----------



## loitering (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
But what if you can't get to them quickly because you can't quickly find the key in a fire?

My lock is just one of those baby locks on ds's side of the door. There is absolutely nothing standing in my way when I'm opening his door.


----------



## SpiderMum (Sep 13, 2008)

I would put up a babygate in the doorway so that if the kids woke up at night they couldn't wander around the house and get hurt (particularly if you had a 2-story house!). Either that or make it so the only place they could go outside their room was our room. And of course, if they cried I'd go see what was wrong.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
So if you slept in the crib, what did you do in the playpen when you were nine and a half years old?


I'd sometimes sleep there though it was not often. I just wanted it just to want it, and my parents gave it to me. It was noting special, just a portable. As I said, i had strange interests, and I still do now. I'm not ashamed of that, as that is part of who I am and part of my Aspergers. To learn more about it, you can look at a small pamphlet at http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc...drome-symptoms I know it sounds strange, but when you understand, it really isn't.







Kodus for asking.


----------



## CheapPearls (Aug 7, 2007)

Horribly sad.









As for locking older children in their rooms, I would be more concerned about them needing to use the bathroom in the middle of the night then about fire. The odds of a potty trained child waking up during the night are much higher then a fire just spontaneously starting. I know my older boys wake up at least once during the night to go to the bathroom.


----------



## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I'm having a hard time imagining a staircase that can't be gated.

OneStepAhead has lots of gate options:

http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/...217&view=10000

including this one:

http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/...tegoryId=85217


Gated staircases are extremely dangerous. Lot of kids can climb them partway and flip over the gates. Gates were not at all helpful for me past 12 months.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deer Hunter* 
I'd sometimes sleep there though it was not often. I just wanted it just to want it, and my parents gave it to me. It was noting special, just a portable. As I said, i had strange interests, and I still do now. I'm not ashamed of that, as that is part of who I am and part of my Aspergers. To learn more about it, you can look at a small pamphlet at http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc...drome-symptoms I know it sounds strange, but when you understand, it really isn't.







Kodus for asking.

I'm not seeing what ASD has to do with deciding to go back to sleeping in a playpen and crib at close to the age of 10...

Are you saying "baby stuff" was/is your Aspie "special interest"?


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

My biggest safety concern is "what if the child falls asleep in front of the doorway and blocks the door from being opened?" A child in a crib can't block the door.

Mostly, what concerns me about this family is the way the mom is completely ignoring the kids at night, not the simple fact of the locked doors.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

it seems to me that everyone on this thread who locks their child in their room does so in order to be a good parent and meet the needs of your child. you are doing it to protect your children from harm, not unlike outlet covers and baby gates on stairs. for your children, your family, and your house it is safer for your children to have their doors locked.

you do not ignore them when the cry, you are able to hear them, you respond to them, you let them out in the morning when the request to be let out.

The OP's friend *seems* to be locking her children in their room in order to not be a parent at all and meet her own needs while ignoring those of her children. it seems like the difference is undeniable. the OP said her friend does this so she can go to sleep and stay asleep all night and get up when she wants to not when they get up.

the difference is appears to be pretty obvious. i would never consider anything you all have mentioned any kind of abuse. you meet your kids needs, you protect them, you respond to them... seems like standard AP. the OPs friend seems quite the opposite yk?


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:

The OP's friend *seems* to be locking her children in their room in order to not be a parent at all and meet her own needs while ignoring those of her children. it seems like the difference is undeniable. the OP said her friend does this so she can go to sleep and stay asleep all night and get up when she wants to not when they get up.

the difference is appears to be pretty obvious. i would never consider anything you all have mentioned any kind of abuse. you meet your kids needs, you protect them, you respond to them... seems like standard AP. the OPs friend seems quite the opposite yk?
I agree, there's definitely a difference. But how is locking them in their room like that different from CIO in a crib? Is CIO "abuse"? Or is CIO worse the older they get?


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

i think CIO is abuse. so for me its not different at all








but if you don't think CIO is abuse then what the OPs friend is doing is just peachy.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
i think CIO is abuse. so for me its not different at all








but if you don't think CIO is abuse then what the OPs friend is doing is just peachy.

I think CIO is terrible, but I have a hard time going to far as to say that a vast majority of Western parents are child abusers.


----------



## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

I think locking them in signals a huge issue and the issue is with the way she parents. She cannot keep them in their rooms without locking them in, which to me signals that the children are not ready for regular beds. The parenting issue is that she isn't recognizing her childs needs. If she expects them to remain in their room then keep them in cribs.

I would never lock Abrielle in her room but I do not co sleep. DO NOT enjoy co sleeping and never did. I mean if Abrielle is ESPECIALLY needy one night or sick, ok, but on a normal basis my bed is MY place and I agree with her with that. Moms are people too and sleep is needed for health. If she doesn't want to co sleep she shouldn't and no one should make her feel bad for that. If people want to co sleep thats ok but I don't think that not co sleeping is bad. Just a personal choice. I also agree children need to learn a little independence (yes even toddlers) autonomy is an important stage of development. I will not sacrifice having an ok nights sleep to be a crabby, short tempered mommy the next day. Which is just what I would be. My suggestion to this woman is to tell her locking her children in their room is dangerous and illegal and maybe she should put them back in cribs.

If she doesn't this is a legal issue. I probably would call CPS.


----------



## MOMYS (Nov 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
I think CIO is terrible, but I have a hard time going to far as to say that a vast majority of Western parents are child abusers.

Ditto!

To me abuse is burning your baby with a cigarette, NEVER showing them any love, etc. etc. etc.

Although CIO is really terrible, I don`t think it is abuse!

BTW, you saying that everyone else who doesn`t think CIO is abuse, thinks what this woman does is peachy - WHATEVER! This is not the message Ì have gotten here!

But I will repeat what I said earlier: I do not KNOW the friend of the original poster! I do not know if she said it flippantly or whether she was actually serious! I do not know whether the rest of her interaction with her children is fantastic! I WILL not judge her on hearsay!


----------



## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

There are so many people who think they have all the parenting answers in the world, but I have YET to meet a perfect person. HMMMM

Abrielle cries it out sometimes. I'm a DARN good mommy and I could care less what anyone thinks.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:

If she expects them to remain in their room then keep them in cribs.
Even when they're three? Four?

ETA:

Quote:

My suggestion to this woman is to tell her locking her children in their room is dangerous and illegal and maybe she should put them back in cribs.

If she doesn't this is a legal issue. I probably would call CPS.
Considering the fact that lots of babies learn how to escape from cribs before turning 2, would you recommend calling CPS on a friend who ordered an adult crib for their toddler/preschooler from an "alternative lifestyle" site?


----------



## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

or a kid like DS who was in a toddler bed for over 6 months before he started wandering around?


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
I think CIO is terrible, but I have a hard time going to far as to say that a vast majority of Western parents are child abusers.

i have no doubt in my mind that most people who CIO think it is the best thing for their children. so if it is abuse it is certainly not malicious or intentional.

i don't think the vast majority of western parents CIO. this is obviously anecdotal but my mom's family is Sicilian, my best friend's dad's family is greek, his mom's family is portuguese (I am second generation and he is first... most of out families are still in Sicilia, Greece, and Portugal) and i am with his family enough that my greek and portuguese are passable. what? we are really good friends lol... the first greek word i learned is a sexual one.. thank you friends father. anyways CIO is a totally foreign idea in both of our families... especially the ones who don't live here. its a different culture... not so focused on Independence... its more interdependence... families support each other, live close together, help with each others children...

like i said ... could just be me... my dads family is totally different.. its like culture shock we almost never see them.... but from my admittedly limited experience it is more of an american thing than a western one.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:

like i said ... could just be me... my dads family is totally different.. its like culture shock we almost never see them.... but from my admittedly limited experience it is more of an american thing than a western one.
You might be right. Still, I don't think most American parents are child abusers. There isn't really a word for those things which are worse than "not the best" but not really "abuse", either.


----------



## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
quote removed by moderator

Ok, maybe I need to explain what I mean by CIO... I guess I am not really letting her CIO. My daughter never gets much passed a little louder than a whine. More than 3-5 minutes of whining/crying I go in a rock her... Sometimes though, at the end of the day, she just DOESN'T want to sleep and its 9:30 and I KNOW as her mom SHE NEEDS to sleep and a little whining or crying won't hurt her... She is very secure and as soon as I here a MOMMY or MAMA I am in there. I guess I should have clarified that. I could have never heard my daughter SCREAM. It's like nails on a chalk board


----------



## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
Even when they're three? Four?

ETA:

Considering the fact that lots of babies learn how to escape from cribs before turning 2, would you recommend calling CPS on a friend who ordered an adult crib for their toddler/preschooler from an "alternative lifestyle" site?

I wouldn't lock my kid in a bedroom. It's a fire safety issue and it's mean. and at 3 YES a crib is still ok. At 4 there should be some comprehension when mom says STAY IN BED. Part of parenting is being consistant and unfortunatly if you don't want to co sleep then you need to keep putting them in bed. Most of my friends have had about a week of hell and then they get that they have to stay in bed.

I am not familiar with adult cribs.. I cannot give an opinion on them yet.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:

I wouldn't lock my kid in a bedroom. It's a fire safety issue and it's mean.
How is locking them in their room meaner or more of a fire safety issue than locking them in a crib?


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

oh for cripes sake naturalmindedmama thats not CIO.... not anywhere close. lol lordy









and mamakay - ignoring the cries of a baby intentionally and repeatedly until you destroy their trust in you and in turn the world.. since you are pretty much their world, is abuse. they may cry for hunger, warmth, diaper change, ear ache, teething...or simply just crying b/c they need to be held and comforted to fee safe and go to sleep.... but if you CIO you simply don't know. and ignoring those needs is abuse. ex- FIL put ds to bed while i was in the bathroom. i came out and ds was crying. i went to go to him and FIL said i just put him there a few minutes ago he is fed and changed he just needs to CIO and go to sleep. i went up anyway ignoring FIL and DS was SOAKING wet. i have no idea why.. i think his diaper leaked. anyways if i had listened to FIL ds would have wet and cold and crying till he slept.. and i would have never known and thought he was fine.

abuse is abuse just because it isn't as bad doesn't make it any better. insulting your kid instead of hitting him doesn't make insulting better just b/c hitting is worse. if all of america beat their kids it wouldnt make it any less bad just because most of america couldn't possibly be child abusers


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
How is locking them in their room meaner or more of a fire safety issue than locking them in a crib?

it would remove the possibility of them falling asleep in front of the door and then having you not be able to get in. past that i have no idea.


----------



## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
How is locking them in their room meaner or more of a fire safety issue than locking them in a crib?

What do you mean locking them in a crib? In a fire a door having to be knocked down takes longer than going into the room and grabbing the child from the open crib. If a child is in acrib and there is a fire they are also much easier to find than a child who can run and hide. My daughter LOVES her crib. LOVES it. She understands that is her place to sleep. If I shut a door though, she flips. especially if she is alone in the room. She panics and cries. I HAVE NEVER SEEN HER DO THAT IN HER CRIB. Where is the correlation?

So should we just let our children run free all the time? Take all the doors off the house so they can do whatever they want and run wherever they want. Where does that stop? Why parent at all?


----------



## canadianchick (May 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Devaskyla* 
I'd call CPS & find out if they consider it abusive (it should be!!) & report her. It's incredibly cruel, imo.



I am working my way through the posts but to answer the above question, I am a CPS worker and it is most definately abusive! She needs to be reported ASAP!


----------



## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

1littlebit said:


> oh for cripes sake naturalmindedmama thats not CIO.... not anywhere close. lol lordy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
it would remove the possibility of them falling asleep in front of the door and then having you not be able to get in. past that i have no idea.

How large would a kid need to be to where where they wouldn't slide away as you opened the door?


----------



## loitering (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NaturalMindedMomma* 
What do you mean locking them in a crib? In a fire a door having to be knocked down takes longer than going into the room and grabbing the child from the open crib. If a child is in acrib and there is a fire they are also much easier to find than a child who can run and hide. My daughter LOVES her crib. LOVES it. She understands that is her place to sleep. If I shut a door though, she flips. especially if she is alone in the room. She panics and cries. I HAVE NEVER SEEN HER DO THAT IN HER CRIB. Where is the correlation?

So should we just let our children run free all the time? Take all the doors off the house so they can do whatever they want and run wherever they want. Where does that stop? Why parent at all?

What are you talking about? People should not put their children in beds anymore because the kid might hide when there's a fire? And no one's talking about actually using a lock and key - every parent can get into the room easily.

And because your daughter doesn't like the door being shut... what exactly? That means no child does?

And what point are you trying to make about letting kids run free all the time? I have no idea what you're trying to say.

ETA: Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. You're saying that kids do need to be put in something to keep them safe, but you think cribs are okay and locks on doors aren't?


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:

What do you mean locking them in a crib? In a fire a door having to be knocked down takes longer than going into the room and grabbing the child from the open crib.
It's only locked from the inside, generally. Where is this scenario coming from where you have to knock down the door?

Quote:

If I shut a door though, she flips. especially if she is alone in the room.
So she sleeps with the door open?


----------



## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
It's only locked from the inside, generally. Where is this scenario coming from where you have to knock down the door?

Locked from the inside means to person inside can turn the knob but not someone from the outside.
When there is a fire and it is in the middle of the night (generally when people sleep), most of the time, by the time you wake up there is too much smoke to see. When a team of firefighters come in and a door is locked, they have to knock it down. They don't take a break to get a key or unlock it, they break it down. Are you a firefighter or an EMT? My fiance is. The loger it takes to get to your kids, the more smoke they inhale, the more damage is done. YOUR CHOICE.

So she sleeps with the door open?

Yes she sleeps with the door open and mine is open directly across the hall and I have a monitor that I can hear her breathe with. My 5 and 6 year old sleep with their door open as well.


----------



## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

loitering said:


> What are you talking about? People should not put their children in beds anymore because the kid might hide when there's a fire? And no one's talking about actually using a lock and key - every parent can get into the room easily.
> 
> 
> > Can they? what about in a fire? with smoke? you cannot see? can you still get into the room easily? have you ever been in a fire? I have! PERSONALLY. My fiance is also an EMT/Firefighter. I know how locking the door goes.
> ...


----------



## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

locking a child in a room is illegal, as is neglect, abuse. Its that simple. It's illegal and against fire code.

Cribs and co sleeping are not illegal, they are choices.


----------



## loitering (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote:

Can they? what about in a fire? with smoke? you cannot see? can you still get into the room easily? have you ever been in a fire? I have! PERSONALLY. My fiance is also an EMT/Firefighter. I know how locking the door goes.
No, I REALLY don't think you do. Ds has a baby lock on the inside of his door. I can open the door perfectly fine from the outside. Other locks people have talked about have included those tiny little hooks and in the doorframe, which could easily be found by running your hand along the frame. And turning the lock backwards would just mean that you'd jostle the lock for a second to open it, the same way you do every time you come out of the bathroom.

NO ONE is talking about locking a kid in their room in a way that would be difficult to open from the hallway.


----------



## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

Yes, I'm also talking about a baby lock from inside the door - the outside knob is just the same as it would always be. I don't think anyone's talking about padlocking the door shut, geesh.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:

Locked from the inside means to person inside can turn the knob but not someone from the outside.
When there is a fire and it is in the middle of the night (generally when people sleep), most of the time, by the time you wake up there is too much smoke to see. When a team of firefighters come in and a door is locked, they have to knock it down.
I meant "from the outside".

Quote:

Yes she sleeps with the door open and mine is open directly across the hall and I have a monitor that I can hear her breathe with.
That's a fire hazard.

Quote:

locking a child in a room is illegal, as is neglect, abuse. Its that simple. It's illegal and against fire code.
Prove that it's illegal.


----------



## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Quote:

I am working my way through the posts but to answer the above question, I am a CPS worker and it is most definately abusive! She needs to be reported ASAP!

maybe in canada cps would step in and interfere in this situation but not in the usa.

i worked cps for years and this would be a very little concern to cps unless it coincided with OTHER things ie: neglect/physical abuse.

locking a kid in his room. meh. its not up there with CIO even.

I dont AGREE with it, but its not abusive. I can call alot of things abusive but this to me runs hand in hand with letting your kids eat twinkies every night for dinner.its not good, but its not abuse either.


----------



## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

and my son loves sleeping with his door shut tight, hes not scared at all. he has slept like that since he was small.he likes it dark, and quiet.


----------



## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
That's a fire hazard.
.

Okay I am just jumping in here but this part caught my eye. Open doors are a fire hazard? How so? We all sleep with our doors open. I want to hear and feel what's going on in my house at all times.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Transitions* 
maybe in canada cps would step in and interfere in this situation but not in the usa.

i worked cps for years and this would be a very little concern to cps unless it coincided with OTHER things ie: neglect/physical abuse.

locking a kid in his room. meh. its not up there with CIO even.

I dont AGREE with it, but its not abusive. I can call alot of things abusive but this to me runs hand in hand with letting your kids eat twinkies every night for dinner.its not good, but its not abuse either.

Exactly.

I have to wonder what CPS would think about people buying an adult-sized fetish-crib to make their preschooler sleep in, though.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeca* 
Okay I am just jumping in here but this part caught my eye. Open doors are a fire hazard? How so? We all sleep with our doors open. I want to hear and feel what's going on in my house at all times.

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=3&gl=us

Quote:

Sleeping with the doors closed provides barriers between those you love and night time fire in your home. The average household door will last approximately three to five minutes with a fully involved room. Closed doors have saved many lives by giving people the time to escape. Sometimes, people with small children or infants think that leaving, the door at night will enable them to hear in case their children cry or call out. In a fire the open door may allow toxic gases to enter the rooms and render both the parents and the children unconscious before any of them are aware of the problem. Inexpensive devices not only allows monitoring other rooms, but in some cases, communicating with them

http://www.disabilityuk.org/masterpages/fire/fire1.htm

Quote:

Safety steps to save lives
1. Fit smoke alarms on each floor level in your home

If you don't have working smoke alarms in your home, your chances of surviving a fire when you are asleep are almost zero.

Test your smoke alarms every month and replace batteries once a year.

If your smoke alarms keep going off, don't disconnect them. They are only doing their job. Ask the Fire Brigade about the best place to put them so that they won't keep going off, for example, when you are cooking.

2. *Keep doors closed at night

This will help delay the spread of fire and smoke.*


----------



## loitering (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeca* 
Okay I am just jumping in here but this part caught my eye. Open doors are a fire hazard? How so? We all sleep with our doors open. I want to hear and feel what's going on in my house at all times.

It was discussed upthread that apparently closed doors serve as a great fire barrier, but open doors encourage the spreading of fire. I had never thought of it before this thread!

ETA: Mamakay beat me to it


----------



## loitering (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
Exactly.

I have to wonder what CPS would think about people buying an adult-sized fetish-crib to make their preschooler sleep in, though.

That is hilarious







"I've never seen anything like this, where did you get it?"

"Oh, just babyapparels.com, the best site for Adult Baby Furniture on the web!"


----------



## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=3&gl=us

okay thanks. I had never heard of that before. I think I will still keep my doors open though.


----------



## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

omg. that's just awful.
i've had similar moments with friends myself, and it's just impossible to go back to where you were before you learned about your friend doing that. at least for me it has been. im sorry mama. and the poor babies







falling asleep with the hand under the door-that makes my heart break. alot of parents i have met seem to shut down at night. like their compassion and gentleness and parenting skill just stops working at bedtime.
so sad.
and dangerous. how could you leave your little teeny one alone and wandering in a locked room like that? what if they got hurt? what if they were crying because they were hurt or stuck or sick or something?? just awful.
eta i do think it's abusive, but i dont think it is CPS type abuse.


----------



## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Quote:

Exactly.

I have to wonder what CPS would think about people buying an adult-sized fetish-crib to make their preschooler sleep in, though.
Yea.
















:scary.


----------



## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

You know, I promise, I am not in a bad mood(though cat clawing me to death while i t y pe doesnt help), but it really gets my goat how people throw the word abuse around like a piece of yesterdays bread.

Parents have hard enough jobs without worrying about being judged "abusive" at every twist and turn by the public eye. Having a bad day, going shopping with your 4 kids and scream at them, maybe this is the third time you have ever screamed in 8 years but someone sees you and deems you the A word(not ass) before you can say martha stewart...









It makes me so frustrated. I know the REAL abuse that exists, and there isnt even a fine line.


----------



## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
it seems to me that everyone on this thread who locks their child in their room does so in order to be a good parent and meet the needs of your child.

the difference is appears to be pretty obvious.

True - we got a bit off-topic... And while I jumped in to defend locking doors in certain situations, actually I totally disagree with the OP's friends tactics. Didn't mean to imply that I thought it was okay. Just saw so many comments saying that basically anything but cosleeping is baby torture, and that made me defensive.

About it being illegal - is that actually true? I poked around a bit on the internet and have found conflicting information. There seem to have been some cases against parents, but those were instances in which they were literally padlocking teenagers in their room as punishment, not sleep-training a toddler or containing a sleepwalker.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cotopaxi* 
There seem to have been some cases against parents, but those were instances in which they were literally padlocking teenagers in their room as punishment, not sleep-training a toddler or containing a sleepwalker.

padlocking their teenagers into their rooms? some people are nuts. completely nuts.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
padlocking their teenagers into their rooms? some people are nuts. completely nuts.

Some of those "Wayward Youth Christian Rehab" programs from the 80's and 90's used to have that as part of the protocol.
Scary stuff.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
Some of those "Wayward Youth Christian Rehab" programs from the 80's and 90's used to have that as part of the protocol.
Scary stuff.

yeah they are.. it wasnt just the christian ones either! we covered them in my juvenile justice class... in the 'oops bad idea' chapter.







there is a good book out now.. its fiction but its reality based.. about being in one of those.. scary crazy stuff.. a lot of the kids came out wayyy more screwed up then when they started.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loitering* 
That is hilarious







"I've never seen anything like this, where did you get it?"

"Oh, just babyapparels.com, the best site for Adult Baby Furniture on the web!"


Can I please ask you to think carefully before you to think carefully before you mock things you don't understand? I think that is fair. i understand why you do it because it is strange. But allow me to explain, please...

I really want to be sincere in saying this, and I'm not putting you down in any way, but I'd really like to help you understand. Adult babies are not the only people who purchase these cribs. I learned about the site being involved in the special needs community. Institutions and schools also purchase cribs from here. I never heard about these cribs or even knew that they existed until I was set away to my special needs residential school and was exposed to all types of special needs up close and personal.

I went to a residential school where all types of special needs children went, and this was my portle to understanding the world of the mentally challenged and how to deal with them. I'd only heard about them before but never been up close and personal. Being at that school taught me so much. It taught me how sheltered I really was. If it weren't for being there, I'd never have had the compassion or insight that I do, nor would I have known anything about this stuff. My eyes would not have been opened, and I woudl not have known any creative ways of doing things. I have the knowledge that I do because of those experiences. I'm thankful for them and would not trade them for the world. But when I was sent away, I saw it up close and personal every day. It was frightening at first, and like you, I made a mockery of things I did not understand, which is why I'm not at all upset with you because I did it, too. Looking back, I feel bad, but I then came to my senses once I understood.

In my late teens, I began caring for the mentally challenged for community service hours. The school allowed me. Then, I helped out friends with mentally challenged relatives, and I cared for them out of the goodness of my heart. I still do it from time to time. I help with them so their families ca get a break and won't get worn out and end up putting them in an institution, which is the worse thing to do. (i've seen so many things happen in those places that I have nightmares. I learned about it through my exposure to the mentally challenged. I also had to report bad staff members for doing horrible things to those students. My school was considered to be an institution. It was under that category. I can't speak of some of the things I saw staff do, but if I' not mistaken, I did talk about some things on my blog.) I love what I do so much that I started a blog about caring for loved one and keeping them home. It is found at www.keepthemhome.blogspot.com It is interesting if you'd like to read it. Should you decide to read it, I hope you find it interesting. Take care of yourself.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
yeah they are.. it wasnt just the christian ones either! we covered them in my juvenile justice class... in the 'oops bad idea' chapter.







there is a good book out now.. its fiction but its reality based.. about being in one of those.. scary crazy stuff.. a lot of the kids came out wayyy more screwed up then when they started.

Yeah, I knew some kids who got sent to one around here after being caught smoking cigarettes and other fairly "not totally out of control" stuff like that, and they're all either addicted to meth or dead from heroin now.








Those places were marketed so well as the be-all-end-all answer, too. Like, if you love your kid, you'll send them here and trust us.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Deer Hunter- i'm confused about that. maybe its different everywhere but i have worked in an institution .. more then one actually. we did not have adult cribs. we would never have had adult cribs. putting adults in cribs would have been a degrading and humiliating experience for most if not all of our patients and that was the exact opposite of what we wanted to achieve. and yes we had people who were severely severely disabled.


----------



## theretohere (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deer Hunter* 
Can I please ask you to think carefully before you to think carefully before you mock things you don't understand? I think that is fair. i understand why you do it because it is strange. But allow me to explain, please...

I really want to be sincere in saying this, and I'm not putting you down in any way, but I'd really like to help you understand. Adult babies are not the only people who purchase these cribs. I learned about the site being involved in the special needs community. Institutions and schools also purchase cribs from here. I never heard about these cribs or even knew that they existed until I was set away to my special needs residential school and was exposed to all types of special needs up close and personal.

I went to a residential school where all types of special needs children went, and this was my portle to understanding the world of the mentally challenged and how to deal with them. I'd only heard about them before but never been up close and personal. Being at that school taught me so much. It taught me how sheltered I really was. If it weren't for being there, I'd never have had the compassion or insight that I do, nor would I have known anything about this stuff. My eyes would not have been opened, and I woudl not have known any creative ways of doing things. I have the knowledge that I do because of those experiences. I'm thankful for them and would not trade them for the world. But when I was sent away, I saw it up close and personal every day. It was frightening at first, and like you, I made a mockery of things I did not understand, which is why I'm not at all upset with you because I did it, too. Looking back, I feel bad, but I then came to my senses once I understood.

In my late teens, I began caring for the mentally challenged for community service hours. The school allowed me. Then, I helped out friends with mentally challenged relatives, and I cared for them out of the goodness of my heart. I still do it from time to time. I help with them so their families ca get a break and won't get worn out and end up putting them in an institution, which is the worse thing to do. (i've seen so many things happen in those places that I have nightmares. I learned about it through my exposure to the mentally challenged. I also had to report bad staff members for doing horrible things to those students. My school was considered to be an institution. It was under that category. I can't speak of some of the things I saw staff do, but if I' not mistaken, I did talk about some things on my blog.) I love what I do so much that I started a blog about caring for loved one and keeping them home. It is found at www.keepthemhome.blogspot.com It is interesting if you'd like to read it. Should you decide to read it, I hope you find it interesting. Take care of yourself.









Thanks for point this out. I've worked in home health care- and I've seen adults in cribs. Sometimes it is the most comfortable thing for them, and I don't really understand why that is funny.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:

Thanks for point this out. I've worked in home health care- and I've seen adults in cribs. Sometimes it is the most comfortable thing for them, and I don't really understand why that is funny
It's not.
What's funny is the idea of putting a normal preschooler in an adult crib made for adult baby fetishists in order to not be "abusive" by CPS standards by locking the door.


----------



## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

I read all 10 pages. whew.

IMHO, the issue in the OP is not the locked door. the issue is the CIO. A locked door, just like a crib, playpen, stroller, or carseat is a child containment device that can be a lifesaving, protective tool or an instrument of neglect and bad parenting. It is all down to how it is used.

Also, "locked door" conjures up images of padlocks and chains, but no one posting on this thread has used the term in that way. When we moved my oldest to his own room, he didn't have the manual dexterity to open his bedroom door. He slept on a mattress on the floor and we kept the door closed while he slept. To me this "counts" as a locked door, equally to a door gate, latch, or child door handle cover - or a crib, playpen, etc etc - i.e. the child is unable to leave a specific safe space without direct adult supervision.

In the scenario that I think most posters are telling, adults (and older children) can open the door/enter the room as needed to attend to the child's needs. The only person prevented from opening the door is the child in question - presumably because the child must be supervised by an adult whenever leaving the room.

Again, I think the issue is not the locked door, but entirely the use of the locked door. The OP's friend is using the bedrooms as essentially toddler-sized cribs to CIO. And that is deeply problematic, of course.

My 2 cents.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siobhang* 
I read all 10 pages. whew.

IMHO, the issue in the OP is not the locked door. the issue is the CIO. A locked door, just like a crib, playpen, stroller, or carseat is a child containment device that can be a lifesaving, protective tool or an instrument of neglect and bad parenting. It is all down to how it is used.

Also, "locked door" conjures up images of padlocks and chains, but no one posting on this thread has used the term in that way. When we moved my oldest to his own room, he didn't have the manual dexterity to open his bedroom door. He slept on a mattress on the floor and we kept the door closed while he slept. To me this "counts" as a locked door, equally to a door gate, latch, or child door handle cover - or a crib, playpen, etc etc - i.e. the child is unable to leave a specific safe space without direct adult supervision.

In the scenario that I think most posters are telling, adults (and older children) can open the door/enter the room as needed to attend to the child's needs. The only person prevented from opening the door is the child in question - presumably because the child must be supervised by an adult whenever leaving the room.

Again, I think the issue is not the locked door, but entirely the use of the locked door. The OP's friend is using the bedrooms as essentially toddler-sized cribs to CIO. And that is deeply problematic, of course.

My 2 cents.

Yep.
Just like, you can use a crib and not do CIO (and that might even be "the best thing" for some babies/toddlers) a locked (unopenable to the kid) door might be the best option for some.

Ignoring the baby or child's needs is _the_ thing that's wrong in any situation. I'll not go so far as to call CIO "abuse", but I do think it's definitely "wrong" as a general rule according to my own (and our collective) moral/parenting standards.


----------



## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

I just noticed this:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deer Hunter*
What if they got sick? She said that they would be okay and that *she'd come ot them if they cried in the night*. But to me, i is not okay. NOt in the least bit!

So it's not like the OP's friend is being unusually terrible.


----------



## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
Yep.
Ignoring the baby or child's needs is _the_ thing that's wrong in any situation. I'll not go so far as to call CIO "abuse", but I do think it's definitely "wrong" as a general rule according to my own (and our collective) moral/parenting standards.

I totally agree. While I don't CIO and wish that no one else would either, I don't understand the urging to call CPS in these instances. To report something that is (1) legal, (2) well within the range of normal parenting in this country, and (3) quite possibly recommended by the child's doctor seems like a poor use of the system. (the advice in the link is similar to what my ped gives out, and is very typical of ped advice here locally - I just ignore it of course!).

I think in these instances when a friend is doing something you find objectionable but is not actually illegal, or unusual, or against standard medical advice, you have to decide: is this so bad imo that I can no longer be friends with this person? If so, that's your perogative. I can think of a number of parenting issues that would cause me to end a friendship. CIO isn't one of them for me, but if it is for you, that's certainly your perogative.

Otherwise, if you decide to remain friends, I see the best option as leading by example. Threatening to call CPS (or actually calling), or other aggressive behavior will not get your point across. I would not remain friends with someone who say, threatened to call CPS because I am continuing to breastfeed my 18-month-old, and the threat would do nothing to change my mind about the benefits of full-term breastfeeding. I'm sure people will say "but that's not the same" - yet, I'm absolutely SURE that many of my friends not only have chosen to wean earlier or not BF at all b/c they didn't feel it was right for them - but also feel that I'm harming my child psychologically by BF at this age. We can continue our friendship because we keep our opinions about what the other is doing wrong to ourselves. They all know that I don't CIO, and that my child is a great, great sleeper - better than most of theirs, actually. Hopefully this has planted the seed in their minds that there is another alternative, and maybe they'll make a different decision with future kids. Certainly if they ever decide to explore other options they know I'm here to help.


----------



## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Hi! I have removed several posts that were in violation of the UA, or that quoted or responded to UAV's. Please realize that further User Agreement violations will result in the thread's permanent removal or closure. In an effort to keep the thread accessible, please be cautious when you post and PM me or co-Mod with any questions or concerns.

When posting to this thread (and all threads) please keep the MDC User Agreement in mind.


----------



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deer Hunter* 
I like the gate idea and keeping all the doors open. I'd do this so long as my children were okay with sleeping without me. That is an idea.

Maybe suggest this to your friend.


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
Deer Hunter- i'm confused about that. maybe its different everywhere but i have worked in an institution .. more then one actually. we did not have adult cribs. we would never have had adult cribs. putting adults in cribs would have been a degrading and humiliating experience for most if not all of our patients and that was the exact opposite of what we wanted to achieve. and yes we had people who were severely severely disabled.


Yes, it is definitely different everywhere. There are places where I've personally seen them tie their patients up, which is a practice I deffinitely abhor and think is inhumane. So, to answer your qestions, I've seen so many different things done, and some really broke my heart.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deer Hunter* 
Yes, it is definitely different everywhere. There are places where I've personally seen them tie their patients up, which is a practice I deffinitely abhor and think is inhumane. So, to answer your qestions, I've seen so many different things done, and some really broke my heart.

it's also illegal and no reputable facility would tie their patients up. if it were necessary for their protection they have restraint systems


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
it's also illegal and no reputable facility would tie their patients up. if it were necessary for their protection they have restraint systems


Yes, and it would trouble me greatly when people suggested doing it as a solution to keep them from wondering. I'd ask them, "How would you like that done to you? It isn't comfortable, nor is it nice. That person has feelings just as you do, and you have no reason to treat them like that." This is the reason I addressed humane ways in keeping a mentally challenged loved one safe. Cribs are actually popular from my experiences, and I'm not the only one who has seen the method done that way. What techniques did they use where you worked?


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakay* 
Yeah, I knew some kids who got sent to one around here after being caught smoking cigarettes and other fairly "not totally out of control" stuff like that, and they're all either addicted to meth or dead from heroin now.








Those places were marketed so well as the be-all-end-all answer, too. Like, if you love your kid, you'll send them here and trust us.


Wow! How horrific! I did not even know these places existed. I also did not even know that teens were padlocked in their rooms! OMG OMG OMG! WTH! People really ARE nuts! I think a check up from the neck is an order.


----------



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Transitions* 
You know, I promise, I am not in a bad mood(though cat clawing me to death while i t y pe doesnt help), but it really gets my goat how people throw the word abuse around like a piece of yesterdays bread.

Parents have hard enough jobs without worrying about being judged "abusive" at every twist and turn by the public eye. Having a bad day, going shopping with your 4 kids and scream at them, maybe this is the third time you have ever screamed in 8 years but someone sees you and deems you the A word(not ass) before you can say martha stewart...









It makes me so frustrated. I know the REAL abuse that exists, and there isnt even a fine line.


----------



## dollyanna (Jan 29, 2008)

Whew - I am late to this thread - but I read most of it...

Well, I had an immediate bad reaction to the OP because my DH was locked in his room by his mom until a very late age, like 7 or 8 years old, and would scream to get out to pee, but Mom would ignore him. He ended up having to pee in the heating vent because she wouldn't let him out. Yeah, he's not a big fan of his Mom.

My earliest memory is having a nightmare and crying and crying but no one ever came to comfort me. That stuff stays with you I guess.

After reading this though, I can totally understand that there's a big difference between that (CIO, basically) and the act of locking your kid in a room for safety reasons. My LO is still in a cosleeper, though she'll soon move to a crib; for safety reasons. At some point after that, she'll move to her own room. And then when she gets big enough to climb out of the crib, to a bed. If at that point she starts going on middle-of-the-night adventures, I could totally see locking the room she's in, but NEVER ignoring her. Luckily, her future room has both a door to the hallway as well as a door directly into our room, so we could probably just lock the one to the hallway and she could come bug us directly


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dollyanna* 
Whew - I am late to this thread - but I read most of it...

Well, I had an immediate bad reaction to the OP because my DH was locked in his room by his mom until a very late age, like 7 or 8 years old, and would scream to get out to pee, but Mom would ignore him. He ended up having to pee in the heating vent because she wouldn't let him out. Yeah, he's not a big fan of his Mom.

My earliest memory is having a nightmare and crying and crying but no one ever came to comfort me. That stuff stays with you I guess.

After reading this though, I can totally understand that there's a big difference between that (CIO, basically) and the act of locking your kid in a room for safety reasons. My LO is still in a cosleeper, though she'll soon move to a crib; for safety reasons. At some point after that, she'll move to her own room. And then when she gets big enough to climb out of the crib, to a bed. If at that point she starts going on middle-of-the-night adventures, I could totally see locking the room she's in, but NEVER ignoring her. Luckily, her future room has both a door to the hallway as well as a door directly into our room, so we could probably just lock the one to the hallway and she could come bug us directly










Here goes and I'm going to be blunt. Your DH mom is nuts. I mean, who DOES that to their kids? So sad and horrifying. I swear, there should be licenses to have children because some parents should not have them.


----------



## Jemmind (Nov 13, 2007)

You know, this post reminds me of something....
I totally remember wishing that I could put those doors up on my son's room that I've seen in church nurseries and things. they are kinda like a barn door...the bottom can stay closed while the top stays open. Wouldn't that be a nice compromise? I never investigated it though, but I bet they're terribly expensive.


----------



## KBinSATX (Jan 17, 2006)

Wow. I don't even know what to say!


----------



## jan8borest (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh my heart goes out to those poor children. They are going to have some serious issues when they grow up. Not to mention, my first instinct, was fire or other emergency. These poor children.

Is this woman a good friend of yours? I would consider calling in CP also. This is a tough situation, but my goodness, think of the children!


----------



## hipchick (Nov 5, 2005)

Sure you handled that right. Who would want someone as a friend who did that? Maybe, you could convince her not to because of the dangers of fire, etc. Also, does she have bedpans? I would imagine that her children would interpret that as neglect; nothing is worse for a child's development than neglect, it's even worse than abuse. I doubt that you can change her because she sounds set in her ways. My question is whether or not you should call CPS.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

umm deer hunter If some crazy psych ward is tying people down so they don't wander around they need to be reported. seriously. thats wrong on so many levels and there are numerous places to report


----------



## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

I did report the people that were abusive, but I did not know that the tying up was illegal, as they made it seem that it was supposed to be done. i always felt it to be sickening inhumane and knew i'd never do it, hence the reason for blogging about it to bring awareness that it was horrific. They'd tie these people to their beds at night. How horrible! Gosh! Certain people just do not need to work with such volunerable people.


----------



## Kaitnbugsmom (Dec 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jemmind* 
You know, this post reminds me of something....
I totally remember wishing that I could put those doors up on my son's room that I've seen in church nurseries and things. they are kinda like a barn door...the bottom can stay closed while the top stays open. Wouldn't that be a nice compromise? I never investigated it though, but I bet they're terribly expensive.

actually dutch doors aren't that expensive...


----------



## Tizzy (Mar 16, 2007)

I'm kind of shocked by the extreme opinions expressed in this thread.

First off, I just don't understand how someone could think locking a child in a crib/cage is better than locking them in their room?!? The logic defies me.

Secondly, it is safer (as PP's have already stated) in the event of a fire to have the bedroom doors closed.
It also helps some children sleep better if the household sounds and lights are blocked out of their room
And sometimes it's about choosing your battles - telling them to go back to bed 20x and having them making a huge fuss and not getting the chance to settle down, or have them discover that the door is closed, head back to bed on their own and go to sleep.

Obviously there's a difference between locking a door for their own safety vs. locking them in a room, ANY room, so you can go off and do your own thing and ignore their crying.
No different than leaving them strapped in their highchair or in a playpen or in their carseat.

Besides, there's a huge difference between parenting and taking care of mentally ill patients.


----------



## thefragile7393 (Jun 21, 2005)

I've read everything....and my two cents is that I don't agree with the OP's friend's statements and her reasoning. It would be a friendship breaker for me...that goes beyond my comfort zone in parenting differences.

I can understand safety concerns in certain situations, such as the ones brought out by ones in this thread and they make sense.


----------



## crazyeight (Mar 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jemmind* 
You know, this post reminds me of something....
I totally remember wishing that I could put those doors up on my son's room that I've seen in church nurseries and things. they are kinda like a barn door...the bottom can stay closed while the top stays open. Wouldn't that be a nice compromise? I never investigated it though, but I bet they're terribly expensive.

that is a FANTASTIC IDEA! omg i can't believe i never thought of it! i mean really you saw a door in half, add a little hinge thing (no reason for it to be anything more than to keep it closed if you need a full door) and then paint the raw edges and voila...a baby gate my kids cant storm down! my kids storm gates easy. dd learned it at 18 months while ds didn't learn till dd taught him.

i do lock my kids in their room. usually i wait until they are asleep at night but in the mornings they WILL get up VERY VERY quietly and sneak around....not only do they just make safe messes but they will go outside (fenced but still), they can get into knives, the fridge, the garage etc. plus its really hard for a child (who when they get an inch will take a mile) to enforce a rule when i am not awake to enforce it! i really don't like it but i didn't know what else to do.

thanks for the idea on the door. i am SERIOUSLY considering it.


----------



## tjjazzy (Jan 18, 2007)

why not just use baby gates?! the only reason i used to shut my son's door was b/c he was downstairs and we were upstairs and i didn't want the cats going in there. i used a baby monitor and it was a french door so i could hear and see through it. lock him in? no way. we're in a different house now and he's almost 3 so we don't use a gate much anymore (sometimes he asks me to put it up) or shut his door at all...unless he shuts it, which he has been known to do. he generally naps in our bed and falls asleep there (he gets moved to his bed later but he knows ahead of time that is going to happen) as well so we just childproof and let him choose what is best for him.


----------



## tjjazzy (Jan 18, 2007)

never mind. already said.


----------



## tjjazzy (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little grey mare* 
First off, I just don't understand how someone could think locking a child in a crib/cage is better than locking them in their room?!? The logic defies me.


i would say b/c you can see through crib bars and an open door into other parts of the house (where there might be lights on or light streaming in from windows.) i wouldn't feel so alone if i were in a crib with an open door rather than locked in a dark room alone. that's why i always liked my son's french door. so much light could get in and sounds from the rest of the house. i only shut it when i went to bed or had a shower or something though (to keep animals out.)


----------



## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

There is a BIG diffrence between locking your LO in a room and letting them CIO than shutting your LOs door to their room and making sure they can get up and hurt themselves.

My mom locked me in my room when i was about 6. My baby sister was about a year and very very colicy...anyways i slept in my mom's bed in the middle of the night. I guess my mom decided that she didn't want me to do that anymore, so instead of trying to transition me before my sister came, she decided to do it after.....it was absolutely horrific and extremely traumatizing for me. I had horrible anxiety issues and locking me in a room all night while i was creaming that i was going to dye from a fire did not help me one bit......it lasted about a week, and i still remember that situation like it was yesterday.

But, i do shut the door to dds room....granted we have a monitor, and i constantly check on her, but if we leave the door open she will wake up when we go to use the restroom, or the cats will jump in her bed. When we transition her to a big girl bed, i will probably put a lock on her door, or put up a baby gate in the halway.....i mean how do you keep your kids from getting into everything in the middle of the night if their doors are open?


----------



## tjjazzy (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jemmind* 
My son is almost 2.5 and never tried to climb the gate, guess I am a lucky one!!









mine still won't b/c i have told him climbing it is unsafe (we don't really use it now though.) we are among the few lucky moms, from what i've heard.


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinyblackdot* 
....i mean how do you keep your kids from getting into everything in the middle of the night if their doors are open?

Cosleeping, or attending to them when they wake in the night.

(Just answering the question, I have no problem with closed doors if the child is not afraid, only locked doors).


----------



## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Cosleeping, or attending to them when they wake in the night.

(Just answering the question, I have no problem with closed doors if the child is not afraid, only locked doors).

Well some kids (like mine) wont cosleep. She literally asks me to put her in her bed......and as far as attending to their needs, there are times that i have no idea that she is even awake even with a monitor.....


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinyblackdot* 
Well some kids (like mine) wont cosleep. She literally asks me to put her in her bed......and as far as attending to their needs, there are times that i have no idea that she is even awake even with a monitor.....

Well there ya go, reason to close the door.


----------



## KaliShanti (Mar 23, 2008)

The situation doesn't seem to warrent calling CPS. I think we need to think long and hard about what is truly abusive & worth calling the authorities over. I'm sure I've done things some of you would strongly disagree with, but none of them are abusive.

I shut my toddlers door every time he sleeps. I can hear him talking or crying or whatever. I don't lock it (I mean he's still in a crib), but if I didn't shut his door he'd wake up to the noise and the light.


----------



## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

OP I think you did a good job. Sounds like you are really making progress.

Have you ever thought though that the problem really isn't you, but your friends? Are you sure you have good friends in your life? I know that friends don't have to agree on everything, but it seems like you know quite a few parents with bad parenting philosophies.

Anyway, it's hard. I was just talking to a mother the other day who spanks her 2.5yo with a ruler. I had to take some deep breaths through that conversation and remind myself that people do not know the errors of their ways and that the child does come from a loving home and will survive her mother's sense of discipline. Then I recommended Alfie Kohn. A lot.

And _then_ I reminded myself not to judge b/c goodness knows _I'm_ going to screw something up sooner or later in this parenting gig.

But, like you, I get upset and have to bite my tongue.

V


----------



## saskiaofthewoods (Mar 27, 2007)

What this mom did is cruel! To me it is child abuse !!!!


----------



## banderbe (Dec 21, 2008)

I'm sorry.. why is it wrong to lock your child's door? I can maybe see the argument that fire poses a risk but another person made the great counter argument that the child might leave the room and hide somewhere else in the house and then you can't find them to get them out of house.

As far as the mental impact on the child, if the child isn't upset, scared or crying, what difference does it make if the door is locked?

After our toddler out-grew his crib we put a knob cover on the inside of the door. Eventually he found out how to open that so we put a hook and eye on the door to "lock" it from the outside. He tried to open the door a few times for a few nights and then gave up and hasn't messed with it since.

He's gone through a few fears so far. After halloween he was afraid of pumpkins. Obviously if he's in his room crying, we go in and comfort him. If he's afraid of anything we are there for him to talk about it and validate his feelings.

I'm sorry, but I do not see anything wrong with locking a child's door if the child is happily enjoying themselves in their room. Our boy lays in bed, talks to himself, looks at books, and eventually falls asleep.

It strikes me as far more dangerous to allow for the possibility of the child leaving his room at night while everyone is asleep. He knows how to open the front door lock to the house. What's to stop him from going outside in the freezing cold?

It seems to me a very safe, sane and rational thing to keep a child locked in their room at night so long as they are not emotionally distressed by it or anything else.

A happy child who happens to be in their room at night which happens to have a door that happens to be locked strikes me as no big deal, and in fact a good idea.


----------



## Shy0717 (Jun 14, 2005)

I actually had this exact situation occur a few years back when I was nanny-ing for a family. They locked their then 2 year old in his room for both naps and bedtime. They actually put a door stopper on the inside of his door then locked the adjoining bathroom so he couldn't get out. So in order to get to him you had to go through his baby sister's room, their adjoining bathroom and get him out that way. The first day they told me that I couldn't hide my disgust (apparently it was obvious on my face). I said I will not be doing that and they apparently stopped after that, guess i made an impression. I would be concerned about getting to them in the event of an emergency or a fire. I'd notify CPS because its such a dangerous situation.


----------



## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 

Anyway, it's hard. I was just talking to a mother the other day who spanks her 2.5yo with a ruler. I had to take some deep breaths through that conversation and remind myself that people do not know the errors of their ways and that the child does come from a loving home and will survive her mother's sense of discipline. Then I recommended Alfie Kohn. A lot.

And _then_ I reminded myself not to judge b/c goodness knows _I'm_ going to screw something up sooner or later in this parenting gig.

But, like you, I get upset and have to bite my tongue.

V

That's not judging that mom, that warrants a call to CAS\CPS. Here (and probably in the USA) the Criminal Code states that spanking with an object in the hand is breaking the law (criminal felony, assault of a minor). Canadians are not allowed to spank a child under the age of 2, over the age of 12 and are not allowed to spank a child with anything but an open, palm down hand.

Not that it should be legal at all in any form.


----------



## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banderbe* 
I'm sorry, but I do not see anything wrong with locking a child's door if the child is happily enjoying themselves in their room. Our boy lays in bed, talks to himself, looks at books, and eventually falls asleep.


I think the point Deer Hunter is trying to get across is that the children are screaming and crying in their rooms and the mother is ignoring it.

It's MEAN and CRUEL and I think ppl who are mean and cruel to little children should have the same situation done to them and see how they like it. Put THEM in a position of being powerless and helpless and have atrocities done to them. Then interview THAT crap on 20/20.

(Sorry -- my mind is also taking into consideration other abuses that loved ones have suffered as children w/ no voice.)

Quote:

It seems to me a very safe, sane and rational thing to keep a child locked in their room at night so long as they are not emotionally distressed by it or anything else.

I agree. I have an 8 yr old on the Autism Spectrum. When he was a toddler he was a runner. He would take off just because and I never knew when or where he'd go. FOR HIS SAFETY I had to put one of those doorknob covers on his door so that we could all sleep at night. (I had a monitor.) I could not have him getting out of the house and running down the road or falling down the stairs of the apartment complex while dh and I are sleeping. It would not be safe and THAT would be abuse. Neglect.

During nap time (MY nap time -- God knows he sure wasn't sleeping!







) I would lock all 3 of us in there so dd and I could sleep on the mattress and he could play safely.

Quote:

A happy child who happens to be in their room at night which happens to have a door that happens to be locked strikes me as no big deal, and in fact a good idea.
A kid that isn't trying to get out at night doesn't need it locked, though. My ds now sleeps in his own room, door closed, but he is also mature enough and logically-thinking enough NOT to leave the house in the middle of the night.









ETA: This probably makes me sound like I'm off my rocker or something, but until you're in my shoes, please don't judge. I never let my kids CIO and ds1 was 3-4 yrs old when we did this.


----------



## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheal* 
That's not judging that mom, that warrants a call to CAS\CPS. Here (and probably in the USA) the Criminal Code states that spanking with an object in the hand is breaking the law (criminal felony, assault of a minor). Canadians are not allowed to spank a child under the age of 2, over the age of 12 and are not allowed to spank a child with anything but an open, palm down hand.

Not that it should be legal at all in any form.

The laws in the US vary by state and are usually fairly vague...nothing as specific as what you have stated is the law in Canada. Laws here usually favor the parent's right to spank as long as it does not cause serious injury.


----------



## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinyblackdot* 
.....i mean how do you keep your kids from getting into everything in the middle of the night if their doors are open?

i have 4 kids and have never had to lock them in their rooms. granted i cosleep for a few years but still....never considered locking the doors to their rooms.


----------



## SquishyBuggles (Dec 19, 2008)

I don't lock my 2 year old's door, but she does sleep with it closed (fire safety, sorry, uncle is a firefighter!) and I put a gate up because I don't want her to roam the house at night. I tried to cosleep with her but she never liked it like dd1 did. She needed her independence from the start. I do sleep about 10 ft from her doorway and I use a monitor at night in case she wakes up and needs me. The OP's friend's situation sounds a little extreme, like she's throwing her kids in the room and locking the door and not responding to their needs. That isn't right.


----------



## banderbe (Dec 21, 2008)

Just to make it clear.. my two boys co-slept with my wife from birth until about nine months when they were just too active to stay in bed with her.

I think co-sleeping is a great idea and our boys loved it.. my wife loved it.

But now they are older and we keep a lock on their door and they are happy, healthy boys.

I hope nobody thinks we are bad parents.


----------



## jazzybaby9 (Feb 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Morgana* 
I remember a night I was over to his house years ago when the oldest was around 2. She fell asleep on the floor right by the door with her hand sticking out. My brother said that was normal.

















that made my stomach turn...how can parents be so cruel


----------



## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *banderbe* 
Just to make it clear.. my two boys co-slept with my wife from birth until about nine months when they were just too active to stay in bed with her.

I think co-sleeping is a great idea and our boys loved it.. my wife loved it.

But now they are older and we keep a lock on their door and they are happy, healthy boys.

I hope nobody thinks we are bad parents.


No, I don't think that at all. I think we all do what works best for our situation. And I highly doubt any one of us just lets our babies (however old our babies are) scream all night. You know?


----------



## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
The laws in the US vary by state and are usually fairly vague...nothing as specific as what you have stated is the law in Canada. Laws here usually favor the parent's right to spank as long as it does not cause serious injury.

That sucks then. I still find the Canadian law is not specific enough but it's a start here at least.

Ours is in the Criminal Code (section 43)
http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/li.../prb0510-e.htm

They did just revise it a few years ago by way of the Children and Families Act to be applied with the code 43 in the Criminal Code.


----------

