# The decision to have a second child...



## Love_My_Bubba (Jul 4, 2006)

How did you make it?? I've always wanted two children and now is the time because I want to TTC in September-October for a summer baby, but our life is just so wonderful now. DS is 17 mo, he's STTN, eating well and is just fun to be with. It's just hard to fathom going back to the 1st year and the round the clock feedings and to top it all off having to care for DS as well. Not only that, we don't know yet if I'll have to work or if I'll be able to stay home once the 2nd baby is born.

I also dread trying to go out with 2 children, I see other parents going out and doing nothing but watching a child. At least now we can pass Andrew between us and relax for part of the time we're out.

Give me your stories, good and bad. I want to hear your experiences!!


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## Molliejo (Jan 7, 2006)

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## 4lilfarmers (Feb 9, 2006)

that's a hard decision. we just had #2 when ds was 3y2mo. i like the distance. age three is definately easier in many ways than any ages/stages before it....so it makes having two pretty easy, i think.

remember that it's nine months before #2 comes --sounds silly but about three months into my pg, i felt really ready for #2 to be here already!







ds1 was changing to fast and getting easier every day.

#2 is easier in general b/c you've been through it all before. i feel so laid back this time and am surprised with how easy things have been with the adjustment of handling two kids.


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## alllyssa (Sep 1, 2004)

Two years apart is so hard on the toddler, and the mom who feels torn between her two babies, and on the baby who might be minorly neglected because mom is busy with the older baby - It's hard on dad too because mom is stressed and overworked and not feeling able to be a loving partner to him.

My best advice is to wait another year, at least. I've had 3 that were 2 years apart and then waited 6 years and then waited 5 years and let me tell you that it was SO nice to have an older child who could go potty by themselves, fix a bowl of cereal, turn on the TV - I didn't have to do everything for everyone and it made a big difference on how I felt about mothering and caring for my children - I actually got to enjoy my baby!

Luckily, my DH works from home and has a very flexible schedule so he's here to co-parent almost completely. That's why we decided to have another one just 2 years after our last baby, but I wouldn't recommend it for most moms who are doing the bulk of parenting all on their own all day long and into most evenings - it's just too hard.


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## SPOpa (Jan 27, 2006)

Wow. I could have written your post verbatim!


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## speedknitter (Aug 20, 2004)

We have recently decided to go for #2, as we felt that a 3 year age difference was good, and we want her to have a sibling, and its kinda now or never for me as I'm 43 YO







:








: for a







this month!


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## Ms. B. Sprout (Nov 30, 2006)

I'm pregnant with #2. They'll be 21 months apart. We wanted them close together for all the typical reasons -- e.g., they'll share interests/modes of entertainment as they grow up in our home, they'll have more in common at more stages of development, etc. I know that does not _guarantee_ a close emotional relationship later in life, as posters in these types of threads often point out.

Contrary to *alllyssa*'s post, I do not feel at all like I am going to be doing my DS a disservice by giving him a sibling close in age. I also don't think I'll be neglecting my new baby.







(ETA: You know, I haven't BTDT, and she has. I just want to acknowledge that. Nevertheless, I am quite comfortable with our decision, and I'm sure there are tons of MDC moms who have close spacings and are ok with it too.







)

I know the first bit is going to be challenging, but I'm ready for it (as ready as I can be). It won't last that long.









I think every spacing has its advantages and disadvantages. That's why it is often regarded as a hard decision.


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## angieluvsramon (Nov 9, 2006)

my boys are 20 months apart, and although it can be stressful at times, I wouldnt give it up for the world!!!!! I also have another one due in feb which is gonna make the younger 2 exactly 12 months apart







:







:







: I'll be going nuts but it will be worth it. I love the fact that they will be so close. I say if it is something you really want then go for it!!!!!!! Dominick has always been a huge help with the baby. Ashton just adores his big bro!


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## NicaG (Jun 16, 2006)

Personally, I just knew I wanted at least 3 years between kids. I had a rough pregnancy, and I know I will have gestational diabetes with the next pregnancy, and I just wasn't ready to go through it all again so soon. I also knew that dh and I couldn't handle another so soon without losing our minds. We don't have any family nearby to help out, and it's hard. One toddler in the house is hard enough on a relationship; I didn't want to add a new baby to the mix quite yet. I don't really care so much about providing a "close" sibling for ds, because it seems like there's no rhyme or reason to whether siblings end up having a close relationship. If they're friends, great; if not, oh well. Dh and I are both 6-8 years apart from our siblings, so we never knew what we missed. We're ttc now, hoping for about 3 years between ds and a new baby.


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## lisalulu (Jun 15, 2005)

We wanted 3 years minimum inbetween siblings but we had an oops and they'll only be 2.5 yrs apart. Our reasoning for 3 or more was that I was hoping ds would be in preschool a couple mornings a week before we had a newborn-mostly to give me and the baby a little alone bonding time. We were also thinking ds would be on his way toward potty training by 3 and might be sleeping better in his bed than he is now. As for the going out with 2 kids, I am a little worried about handling that-especially when its just me running errands!


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## cmom80 (Oct 18, 2006)

I'm interested in what people have to say, too. I used to think I wanted mine a year or so apart, but now I feel like waiting until C is 3 before trying. Partly because she is SUCH a handful right now, partly because I don't feel ready to divide my attention with another baby just yet, and partly because I want to nurse her for another year (and sorry, but, no way no how am I gonna try tandem nursing! Too much for me I think.)

I read something like 3-5 years is the ideal spacing, biologically speaking. That's just one perspective you might want to take into consideration.http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...30/ai_95105825

Personally I'm going to wait until I feel like she's less dependent on me, or when I just get that feeling that IT'S TIME... LOL


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## cmom80 (Oct 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NicaG* 
Personally, I just knew I wanted at least 3 years between kids. I had a rough pregnancy, and I know I will have gestational diabetes with the next pregnancy, and I just wasn't ready to go through it all again so soon.

Ditto here


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## Petersmamma (Mar 28, 2006)

I have just one kid who is about 2.5 yo. Honestly, I see moms with toddlers and babies and just don't know how they do it. It looks SO tiring to me!

We will probably wait till ds is about 4-5 to have another one. This gives us both time to finish school (I'm a grad student, dh is an undergrad), and hopefully we will be in a position where I can take the first year off work to care for the child.

Ds will be fully potty trained, hopefully be sleeping in his own bed all night (this is important to me because I love co-sleeping but do NOT want to do it with TWO kids), and will be old enough to amuse himself at times and possibly even amuse his younger sibling. He will also be old enough to understand that he needs to be gentle with the baby (a friend has two that are not quite 2 years apart and she says the older one will try to hurt the younger one when he is tired and it's really hard on her because she wants to protect her baby, but the older one is her baby too







: ).

Further, down the line....there will be a LARGE gap between when they can drive and go to college. This is important to me because I want to get my kids a car, but I don't think we could afford to have FOUR cars! Also, I would prefer to have just one kid in college at one time. I know that our money situation could change, but realistically, I don't think we'll ever be having tea with Mr. Monopoly and I want to retire with dignity and I ALSO want to be able to do the things for my kids that my parents didn't do for me, so thinking that far ahead helps me to be rational when I look at ds' itty bitty baby clothes (had to get them out for a friend).

I also have age on my side. I'm 27 now, so I will be about 30 when my next is born. If I were 37 now, I would be TTC right now. Further, because I'm only 27, even though I think I want just 2 kids, if I do decide I want a third I have time to do that.

Finally, I'm selfish. I really LOVE being able to go to yoga class, to occasionally go to movies, get a pizza, read a book, etc....all the things that require time and money. We don't have a ton of money right now, but we are able to do things like buy new running shoes or see Harry Potter because we only have one child. In our situation, if we had a second, we would literally not be able to do anything but care for those kids. Oh, and that reminds me that d/c is expensive, too, and having two kids in d/c at once is REALLY expensive but I want to WOH.

Just my .02!

Good luck with your decision!

Oh yeah: I adore this time with ds. I don't want to have to split my time between him and another dc. Although I haven't BTDT, I agree with the PP who said that it's hard on EVERYBODY to have kids so close together. I don't want my ds to have to wait for me to finish with his sibling for my attention. Not that if you choose to have two together you are a bad parent or anything....I think this comes back to my selfishness again. I want ds snuggles all to myself!


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## Cloth4Colin (Dec 12, 2004)

Our DC are 2.5 years apart exactly. Before we started TTC #2, I had reservations about "messing up what we had as a family of three." We finally decided we really wanted DS to have a sibling. Once we made the decision, it just felt right.

It's different for everyone, but I've found having two children very rewarding. It is a bit more challenging getting out with two, but it isn't impossible.


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## Petersmamma (Mar 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisalulu* 
We wanted 3 years minimum inbetween siblings but we had an oops and they'll only be 2.5 yrs apart. Our reasoning for 3 or more was that I was hoping ds would be in preschool a couple mornings a week before we had a newborn-mostly to give me and the baby a little alone bonding time. We were also thinking ds would be on his way toward potty training by 3 and might be sleeping better in his bed than he is now. As for the going out with 2 kids, I am a little worried about handling that-especially when its just me running errands!









:

I already HATE going on errands with ds. I can't even imagine having TWO with me!







:


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## Viriditas (Aug 30, 2004)

I go back and forth between wanting to conceive now and wanting to wait a few more months. I often feel that really strong hormonal pull to have another baby, and I wonder if by spacing my children further apart I am making it less likely they'll be close. But then I take a good look at ds (20 months), who is still such a baby and needs my full attention (and a full supply of milk) so desperately. I know that lots of children spaced more closely do just fine, but I can't help thinking that if I have the ability to let ds be the baby for a little while longer, why shouldn't I do that? The arrival of a younger sibling on the scene is such a difficult thing for any child, and I just think that he will be a bit more mature and better able to process the situation at 3 than at 2.

This may all be moot, as I'm only on my second pp cycle, and I think I've only ovulated once since ds was born.







But it's on my mind, nonetheless.


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## Love_My_Bubba (Jul 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Viriditas* 

This may all be moot, as I'm only on my second pp cycle, and I think I've only ovulated once since ds was born.







But it's on my mind, nonetheless.

This goes for me too, I'm just on my 2nd PP cycle. Why couldn't it have just stayed away so I wouldn't have to make this decision


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## Izzy's Mom (Apr 15, 2002)

There is good and bad no matter what choice you make - (and probably whatever # of child you are having!) I never struggled with the choice of having a second child, but I had most of your same concerns when it came to having a third child.

Ultimately we based our choice on the emotions of the decision, not the practicalities. The money and stuff we'll have to figure out now, but we just had to look deep down at what we wanted our family to be and here we are - third baby coming soon!


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## Ms. B. Sprout (Nov 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lapoema* 
no way no how am I gonna try tandem nursing! Too much for me I think.

This is also something to take into consideration. I'm fine with tandeming and we're on our way there already. But even if you're ok with it, something like 25% of kiddos self-wean during pregnancy, and another 25% are mother-led weaned (there can be significant discomfort nursing while pg). So if your DC nursing until X age is your top priority, then you might want to delay TTC.

Those #s are from _Adventures in Tandem Nursing_, btw.


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## Valkyrie9 (Sep 29, 2006)

I guess we're sort of lucky (in a way), in that Fate or whatever will end up deciding the issue for us. We've got fertility issues, and have decided that we'll go through 3 infertility treatments like what we had to do to have DD. If it takes, great. If it doesn't, great.

Because of a work assignment that I really, really want to take next spring, we'll start TTC next summer when DD is about 2.25 years old, which is going to put her around 3 if/when the time comes for a sibling. I'm pleased to hear so many here saying that 3 years is a good separation.


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## DklovesMkandJK (Jun 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *speedknitter* 
We have recently decided to go for #2, as we felt that a 3 year age difference was good, and we want her to have a sibling, and its kinda now or never for me as I'm 43 YO







:








: for a







this month!


Good Luck!







:


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## g&a (Dec 15, 2004)

You will know when you are ready.

DH says it's like a switch in a woman's brain - one day you don't want more yet, and the next you can't wait.

I always thought it would be ideal to have kids close together like me and my sister were simply for the bonding issues. But, even though it seemed like the logical time to do it, we just weren't ready to take on another baby. Don't do it because of logic.

DD will be 3.5 when the new on is born and I can see the advantages of it. We are so much more ready - emotionally, physically, perspecitve-wise etc. DD is more independant, and I think she will handle not being the center of the universe a bit better now. I'm glad it's happening when it is.

As a side note: We "planned" for next-kid way sooner than he/she is coming. Months in the fertility forum is a humbling experience.

g.


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## Lunaria (May 30, 2007)

I always thought about 2 years apart is perfect. But now I think it has a lot to do with different personalities, of the parents and sibling to be! I have an almost 3 year old dd and a 7mo ds, and it is exhausting. I thought dd would be old enough to kind of want to help and be involved with her little brother, but she hasn't had much to do with him. I constantly feel like there isn't enough of me to go around. I hear though that it's really nice to have them close in age when they are older. I think it's going to be awhile before we think about #3









Jenny


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## BensMamacita (Mar 13, 2007)

My ds is 19 mos. and I'm not ready at all to have another. I work fulltime outside of the house, and I already feel that I don't see my ds as much as I would like -- so to split that limited time w/another child seems unfair to everyone involved.

Also, in terms of being close w/siblings, I am close with all four of my brothers, including my youngest brother who is 11 years younger than me.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

My second daughter was born just 15 months after my first. One good thing about a second, more so once the youngest is 4 months or older, is it is so much easier keeping them entertained because they have each other, too!


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## beana's mommy (Feb 16, 2006)

We always knew we wanted 2, then after our dd arrived I contemplated her being an only... which I NEVER thought I would consider. But, as she got older, I knew she needed a sibling, she just LOVES being around other children. We went back and forth over whether we wanted to aim for a 2 or 3 year age gap and couldn't decide. We decided to start TTC and it worked first try, so almost 23 months apart it is.

Our ds is 3 weeks old and I have to say (knock on wood! LOL) that everything is going wonderful! DD has loved babies for awhile, and done great with me holding them, so that helped a lot. And we talked about every detail of him coming into our lives with her while I was pregnant. How he would sleep in bed with us (she wanted/wants him next to her... not quite!), how he would nurse, sit next to her in the van, etc. So, she was really ready. It was very rewarding because my family was convinced she wasn't going to handle any of it, especially the nursing, well since we are very attached and she was still nursing. She even helps undo my bra for him, and gets the other side ready when she decides it's time for him to switch sides. She was down to nursing just at night before bedtime before he arrived, and now it's maybe a couple times a week so far.

One of the first days we were home I was holding ds and dd came up saying "hold". I thought she meant that she wanted me to hold her and was a little jealous... nope, she was asking if she could hold her brother. It just melted my heart.

The tough part is getting ready to get out of the house. Making sure the diaper bag is packed for two, and that both are fed and dry! And our cd pail is filling up rather quick now since dd isn't potty trained yet!


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## cherubess (Oct 14, 2004)

Very much an individual choice on deciding when to have #2.

There will be about 27 months difference between my two.

I know that it will be a bit difficult at first but I know that I will get through it and I know that it won't be for long as they grow up really quickly.

My g/f has 4 years between each of her children because she didn't want two babies in nappies at the same time.

She admits that that was one advantage but she also says that the disadvantage for her is that her children don't play together much and also the older one resents the next younger one breaking his/her things.

The way I see it there are pros and cons to each view of having children close in years together or far apart in years together. You just have to do what you think is comfortable for your family


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## guestmama9915 (Jul 29, 2004)

I'm about to have 3 children (I'm currently in labor, yay!!) - anyway, my current 2 are about 20 months apart, and the new one will be about 20 months apart, as well. I personally think it's great. In some ways I am saddened that my 20 month old is still such a baby and here I am, having another baby, and while it keeps be incredibly busy and a bit insane at times, in the long run, I think it's well worth it.

Already my girls play together so well, they're so close. It's magical. I also grew up with siblings with about the same spacing and I loved it (except when they were beating me up, of course...


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## lucyem (Apr 30, 2005)

My husband always said if we had kids it had to be kids. There would be no only child. Let me just say if we had had the 2nd one first we would never have done it again. The 2nd sent my DH running for the vasectomy.

We decided it was time when our first was 2. When the 2nd arrived DS was 3 years and 4 months old. Old enough to get things for me if needed, old enough to be in his own room by his choice, old enough to play on his own more, no diapers, able to walk through a store holding my hand. For us if our first had been any younger it would have been harder. My sister in law has 3. The oldest and youngest my sons ages and then she has one in the middle, 1.5, 3, 5. Maybe its their family or their personalities but the children have never received the attention they needed.


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## khrys (Aug 1, 2005)

I think that whether or not siblings are close probably has more to do with personality than age. Everyone's situation is different, but in my case, my sister and I are 22 months apart (I'm older), and we have never been close. We have very different personalities and interests. My mom says that when my sister was a baby I would attack her if we were left alone together. She even still has a scar near her eyes from me. I wouldn't worry too much about having babies close in age so they can have a closer relationship, because it doesn't always work that way. There may be other reasons to have them close in age, but that might not be a good reason.
Ds (27 mo) has been taking his time learning to eat, so he still depends on nursing for most of his nutrition. I am waiting until he learns to chew solid foods before I try to get pregnant again so that I don't have to be concerned about milk supply during pregnancy. We were planning for 3-4 years apart anyway, so this is fine with me. We thought 3-4 years would be best for better health (as mentioned in the article linked by a pp), and also so that the older one could become more independent in their own time (instead of having to become more independent because of the new baby, which I think is what happened with me).


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## Jenlaana (Oct 28, 2005)

I am going to have my 3rd child in October, almost exactly to the date 2 yrs from when DD was born, and 12 yrs after my first. We did it this way on purpose. Before DD was even conceived we knew we would have her and 1 more, very close together.

For me there are 2 reasons... 1) my sister and I are about 3 yrs apart, and were always just far enough apart that we did not ever have the same friends. Yet close enough that we fought over toys/clothes/etc constantly. We never got past that either. We barely speak at 30 yrs old and 27 now. My DH and his brother were a bit closer in age, and they got along famously as kids, because they had the same friends, IMO.

2) I have a 12 yr old boy, and having another baby so long after he was born was very tough on me. I had thought I was done until I met DH (DS is from a prev marriage). Starting over after 10 yrs is very difficult. I have trouble making both DS and DD happy because they want such different things all the time. I would love to take DS to the movies but we cant because DD is too young (and I'm not that mom who's kid cries in the theatre). I love playing w/ DD and watching some of her shows with her, and DS gets frustrated and annoyed with them because they "dont make sense". There's just a laundry list on both sides of the fence w/ them that we cant do easily or enjoy doing w/ one because of the other.

I dont think I do a disservice to my daughter by giving her a sister at 2 yrs old. I'm suprised someone would make that suggestion, but MDC is full of ...vibrant personalities.


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## Swirly (May 20, 2006)

At 17 months now, with a baby who still is up 3-5 times per night and who is mentally and physically exhausting (but also a joy and delight), I think we are finally reaching the point where my DH will go get his vasectomy. (please God, let it be soon) I could never, ever do this again.


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## Ms. B. Sprout (Nov 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jenlaana* 
I dont think I do a disservice to my daughter by giving her a sister at 2 yrs old. I'm suprised someone would make that suggestion, but MDC is full of ...vibrant personalities.

















:

Vibrant, indeed.


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## MistyB (Oct 20, 2004)

NEVER. ; )

I SO enjoy the spacing. My 4 year old was mostly out of the needy phase and way more independent. I have watched numerous friends have children with gaps as little as a year and there is no way I would ever put myself into that stressful of a situation. I really think it is hard to balance the needs, wants etc of 2 kids under the age of 2 or 3. I would say that 36 months is the minimum that I would ever likely consider based upon what I feel my children needed and the energy I had to fulfill those needs.


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## joliara (Mar 12, 2006)

I haven't read all the other comments, but I had the same situation. When my DS was 18 months, I couldn't fathom going back to having another newborn, waking at night, etc.

Now he's 2.5 and we're pregnant w/#2. He'll be just over 3 when the baby's born, which I've heard is a perfect gap.

The decision to have a second wasn't easy, though. There are a lot of benefits to having only one child. The deciding factor, for us, was that he had no cousins and it didn't look like he was going to for quite awhile (though now my SIL is pregnant) and we didn't want him to be alone as an adult when we were dead and gone. We wanted him to have someone around whom he'd shared his life with.

Give it another 6 months or so and see how you feel.


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## jenmary (Jul 7, 2006)

Quote:

I'm about to have 3 children (I'm currently in labor, yay!!)
sending good birthing vibes!







congratulations mama!


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## Avena (May 27, 2005)

I haven't read all the post's.....My DD was 22 months when DS was born, I have to say the 1st three months were the absolute hardest times.To be TRUTHFUL here, I cried and cried....I'm not trying to discourage anyone here.I was sooooo exhausted and trying to keep up w/DD was really tough BUT IT DID GET MUCH EASIER! I learned to nurse DS and make DD lunch! I learned to walk and nurse because I had to keep up w/her.We all got in a rhythm.....DD & DS are SUPER SWEET together! just watching the love that pours from their eyes when they smile at one another make me feel so blessed......

I learned to cope w/a few hours of sleep and do pretty well most days!

I wouldn't change it for anything! I feel VERY blessed







:


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## tamagotchi (Oct 16, 2005)

My sister and I are 26 months apart, and we have always been very close, as children and as adults. My baby due this Oct will be the same amount younger than my DS. Not really on purpose, but that's how it will be. DH and I didn't feel we had time to wait another year or two to TTC because I'm already in my 40s, and frankly we're happy to be able to have two children regardless of the spacing. I'm intimidated by the idea of taking care of two very young children, but I'm sure I will get through it somehow!


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## papayapetunia (Feb 6, 2006)

I quite like our 7-year age difference, but I think if we have another one, the age difference between my second and third will be 3-4 years. I would die with a newborn and a toddler. I really would. But it's such a personal decision. No one should inflict their personal feelings on others, and no one should be offended by anyone's personal feelings.


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## *guest (Oct 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Swirly* 
At 17 months now, with a baby who still is up 3-5 times per night and who is mentally and physically exhausting (but also a joy and delight), I think we are finally reaching the point where my DH will go get his vasectomy. (please God, let it be soon) I could never, ever do this again.

This may be us!








I'm not sure I can handle a newborn again, sanity-wise, and my husband feels the same way. The older she gets, the more I think I'm not sure I could go back and do it all over again. We go around and around about officially closing shop. I think I'd need at least a 3-4 year age difference to even dare.


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## papayapetunia (Feb 6, 2006)

Just wanted to say that a lot of people I know have had a really hard to handle firstborn, and then a really relaxed secondborn. Happened to my mom, among others.


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## Bella Catalina (Aug 19, 2006)

My mum had 3, I am the oldest. 24mths apart between me and #2, and then 23mths between #2 and #3. My mum says it was very hard, but she would do it the same way over again because we were all in the same schools, same interests etc.

We hope to have four children, and our ideal was to have and 18-24mth gap between #1 and #2, then wait until #2 was 3 or 4 before having another two with similar spacing - I don't want to be done with the baby stage so quickly and not enjoy it. But here we are, on cycle 8 of ttc #2 and it doesn't look like we'll have less than a 2 year spacing - it seems all of my other friends can conceive while nursing, but I've had AF again since DS was 6mths old, despite exclusive nursing etc, and I'm still here.

Some days I have the baby bug so bad, other days I am thankful that I am not pregnant again right now - this age (15mths is a load of fun but oh so challenging)... I will obviously be okay with whatever spacing we end up with. While I look at my son and think he is growing up so fast, and think he is not my little baby any more, the very next moment I can look at him and see how much he still is, and very much needs to be, a baby. I think that is why I am not as anxious (about conceiving again) as I expected I'd be.

I never thought I'd ever consider only having one, but even when I briefly consider it, I experience the nagging feeling of knowing that I would regret not having more. But now Adrian is beginning to show signs of his emerging independence, I can understand why some couples choose to have an only child, and I also worry about ruining the dynamic we've created with the 3 of us.


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## khrys (Aug 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Swirly* 
At 17 months now, with a baby who still is up 3-5 times per night and who is mentally and physically exhausting (but also a joy and delight), I think we are finally reaching the point where my DH will go get his vasectomy. (please God, let it be soon) I could never, ever do this again.

I know this is a very personal decision, but a vasectomy is pretty hard to reverse if you change your mind when your baby is older. Also, as a pp mentioned, your next baby might be really easy!


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## g&a (Dec 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bella Catalina* 
My mum had 3, I am the oldest. 24mths apart between me and #2, and then 23mths between #2 and #3. My mum says it was very hard, but she would do it the same way over again because we were all in the same schools, same interests etc.

We hope to have four children, and our ideal was to have and 18-24mth gap between #1 and #2, then wait until #2 was 3 or 4 before having another two with similar spacing - I don't want to be done with the baby stage so quickly and not enjoy it. But here we are, on cycle 8 of ttc #2 and it doesn't look like we'll have less than a 2 year spacing - it seems all of my other friends can conceive while nursing, but I've had AF again since DS was 6mths old, despite exclusive nursing etc, and I'm still here.

Some days I have the baby bug so bad, other days I am thankful that I am not pregnant again right now - this age (15mths is a load of fun but oh so challenging)... I will obviously be okay with whatever spacing we end up with. While I look at my son and think he is growing up so fast, and think he is not my little baby any more, the very next moment I can look at him and see how much he still is, and very much needs to be, a baby. I think that is why I am not as anxious (about conceiving again) as I expected I'd be.

I never thought I'd ever consider only having one, but even when I briefly consider it, I experience the nagging feeling of knowing that I would regret not having more. But now Adrian is beginning to show signs of his emerging independence, I can understand why some couples choose to have an only child, and I also worry about ruining the dynamic we've created with the 3 of us.


I can so relate to your post. It's all fine and well to plan the perfect spacing, then comes real life and month by month you see it slipping away. We tried for 10 months, so DD is almost a year older than we thought she would be. But as I said in my previous post, I can see that this timing is going to be better for us. We're more ready for this (especially DD who it will affect the most).

And FWIW (I know this is WAY off topic!) we couldn't concieve until we stopped breastfeeding, too. I know many women can, but not me. DD was 2 yrs. 8 months when we made the decision to quit bfing and newbaby came along 2 months later.

g.


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## LilWin (Apr 25, 2007)

To get pregnant with #2 wasn't really a decision for us. I knew I wanted to have more children, but I didn't know when. Then we didn't use a condom for like 2 times, I just figured I wouldn't get pregnant so quickly. Of course that was a naive idea.







At first I didn't feel ready for it, I was kind of in shock that it happened so quickly. I felt guilty that I was messing up DD's world with another baby, and that I couldn't be there for her 100% anymore once her brother arrived. As the pregnancy went on, I started dreaming of the new baby as all pregnant women.







The guilt towards DD about getting pregnant again went away. When DS was born DD was 20 months.
But looking back, I would have never chosen an age difference like this. It's so hard! They both still need so much, it's going back and forth between the two of them with diapers, nursing/food&drinks, naps, playtime etc. Before we can get out of the house, it takes at least an hour or more. Some days when I'm really tired I just give up when #1 needs another diaper when I'm just about to leave the house and stay in.
Of course this is all just a short fase in our lives and luckily I can see the humor in it and laugh at myself a lot. I just hope, hope hope they'll be close when they grow up. I had a 4 year age difference with my brother and 8 with my sister and always felt that was way too much.
Now that I've managed two this close in age, I feel I can handle a third once DS is about 3. DH doesn't want another child at all, but I'm hoping he'll come around slowly. I just saw a friend who had a baby three weeks ago, and it's so cute!








PS: it's true for us as well that DS is a super relaxed baby!


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

I had a very strong feeling that there was a second babe looking to join our family...I would be sorting the clothes and wonder where the baby's pile was, or look for a second child when getting out of the car, that sort of unconscious "looking" (like when you forget to put on your watch and look at your wrist a half dozen times







)

We decided to start TTC when dd was 1 (though we stopped trying to prevent a few months before her bday) since we thought we might be moving and really wanted our second to be born in the vbac supportive/natural living supportive region we lived in. Also I really didn't want to wait too long since I felt like we were already in the baby zone so to speak. We're used to diapers, interrupted sleep, blowouts, packing extra shirts, NIP, etc. I didn't want such a big gap that it would feel like going backwards (one friend had a surprise baby...so her kids are 14, 12, 9 and 1yo. She said it was rough "starting over"). It took longer than expected and dd2 was born when dd1 was 26mo old. So I second the pp who said that it might not happen as easily the second time and the "perfect" gap might be longer than expected!

I think there are pros and cons to any sibling age gap, but I'm happy my girls are close in age and lucky that dd1 looooooves her little sister and dd2 is a seriously laid back kiddo. It's tough since dd1 s still a baby herself and doesn't really understand everything that has happened (we tandem nurse and dd1 gets pretty unhappy when dd2 gets first dibs!), but overall it's a good thing I think.

We do go out for walks and for dinner...it's not as easy as it was with just one, but dd2 is still a sling baby so it's not really that hard. And by the time dd2 is walking dd1 will be older as well and more able to help. Really, two hasn't been as challenging logistically as I expected...though there is the whole tandem diaper blowout scenario!









I was really worried about changing the family dynamic and pushing dd1 out of the center, but really I'm focusing on the positives. For example, when we go to the park I do have to split my attention and I can't be as active with dd1...but on the positive side, dd1 is gedtting the chance to be more independant and free. I can't crawl through the tunnels with her, and the first solo trip was a bit hesitant for us both, but now she has a blast with "do it all myself" stuff. And she helps with dd2 (bringing diapers, rubbing her tummy, "reading" stories) so she has a real sense of contributing and being important to her sister's life...she is very proud of this and tells everyone about it!

I don't feel the same pull for a third babe (though I would love another), and I think we will wait till we are in a better place financially before TTC another. DH has offered to get the "big v" but for now we'll be sticking with the iud.


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## devster4fun (Jan 28, 2007)

Just to offer another perspective...we're just having DD.

I was an only child and we always wanted just one. After 10 years of marriage, we were finally "ready." She's a joy to have in our lives and we feel complete.

If you're interested in further discussion, look at our Tribe...Mamas of Onlies.

Good luck with whatever you decide!!!!!!!!


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## Raio de Sol (Jun 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Petersmamma* 
Finally, I'm selfish. I really LOVE being able to go to yoga class, to occasionally go to movies, get a pizza, read a book, etc....all the things that require time and money.

oh come on, let's stop saying that pampering ourselves is selfishness! Girl, you deserve it! it's your RIGHT as a hard-working mamma!


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## LeslieB (Feb 17, 2006)

I have one 17 month old, and there is NO desire in me to have more children. I have a feeling that might change, though, but I can't see us having another before DS is at least 4 years old. I just really love having DS. I'm content with an only. Dh kind of wants 2, though... but he's in Iraq so there's not much he can do about it now.








Just the thought of having kids so close together makes me cringe. There is just so much that we do now that I couldn't do with two. I love our life the way it is; I feel complete, and I don't know if that will change.


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## Carley (Aug 16, 2005)

I was traumatized by the newborn experience but now that my daughter has reached toddlerhood I have come back to wanting a large close family. I now expect the first year of every childs life to be rough & full of "what did I do?" tears & emotions, but I know I will be glad to have my great big family (most of the time! Ha!).

For me the means (having a newborn) definitely outweighs the ends (having a large family of siblings).


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## bean's mama (May 2, 2007)

We have one ds, 13 mos old and plan on ttc starting in Dec. I always thought that I would want a bigger space between kids but i feel like i'm so in the groove right now that I might as well just do it. My neighbor's son in 2 1/2 yo and he is hardly a baby. I hope that my observation is not incorrect


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## MsGrizzle (Jun 3, 2005)

I wasn't ready to try for a second until they'd be about 4 years apart. My first didn't nap for pretty much the entire first year and didn't sleep well at night either. I also exclusively pumped for him so it was just a rough time. I just couldn't imagine introducing anyone new for a while. I had also read some stuff on birth order that influenced my thoughts on spacing. I wasn't concerned about having them close together so they'd be close or anything as dh doesn't get along with his brother 18 months younger but is best friends with his brother who is 10 years younger!

I ended up having my second son when my first was 6.5 years old. All I can say is THANK GOODNESS. My #2 was basically a nightmare (I love him to death but boy oy boy....)....he was a surprise breech, cried all day for the first 8 weeks (despite chiro, elimination diet, probiotics, you name it), then basically stopped sleeping more than an hour at a time for THE ENTIRE FIRST YEAR. It has been a rough experience - I feel like I've missed his entire first year by sleepwalking through it. I couldn't imagine having to deal with the 4 months of breastfeeding issues and the crying and not sleeping with a toddler around! The little stinker is as happy as a clam, hilarious and lots of fun *during the day*, but waking every hour and the ensuing exhausted-to-the-bone misery for the past year has dh running to get a vasectomy (not scheduled yet). I always wanted more than two but at this point, unless I can get a guarantee that s/he will sleep, we're done!







I'll probably always wish I had more though!

I can definitely see plusses to having them closer in age but I can also see lots of plusses for a wide spacing. No matter what, I think it all works out. No worries!


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## BookGoddess (Nov 6, 2005)

I grapple with this question almost on a daily basis. My biological clock isn't going to tick forever so I need to make a decision in the next year or two. We only planned on having one when we got married. Now that DD is here we think about giving her a sibling but I can't imagine having a baby in the house when I have my hands full with a toddler like my daughter. I think I would go out of my mind. DH would go out of his mind too. We will likely wait until DD is potty trained and in preschool at least part of the week.

I truly agree with the posters who said the personality of the older child makes a difference in having two children close in age. My brother and I are exactly 1 year apart. People in my family have told me that I was a very mellow child. My mother said it was very easy for her to have two children under the age of 2 because one child played easily by herself and didn't make too many demands on her. On the other hand, my brother was a handful and I think had he been born first my mother would have delayed her decision to have a second child. Because we were so close in age, my brother and I fought a lot as children. Now that we're both married and established in our lives, we're much closer than we've ever been. I would love for my daughter to have that kind of relationship with a sibling but I know for my own sanity I need to wait a while to TTC.


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## ryansma (Sep 6, 2006)

Dh and I have been discussing this a lot lately. Ds is 16 months now and so much fun. We originally said we would want a spacing of about 3 years (my younger brothers are all three years apart - 19, 16, and 13 now). Child development wise, 3 year olds are usually asserting their independence so that was a big reason for us. But now I think we are going to TTC in Nov/Dec in hopes of having a fall 08 baby.I do have the baby itch a little now. That will make them about 2 1/2 years apart. I want to have next summer to do things with ds soon before having another baby. I am actually getting excited about it. Ds will be a great big brother.


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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

We didn't DECIDE, they were all oopses!
The transition from 1 to 2 children was very difficult. But then again #2 was a very difficult baby.
That said, #3 has been a breeze. We go out to eat with no problem at all, they're very well behaved and we have a fun time.


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## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

We decided only to have one, and as Katie gets older, we keep having it confirmed that that's the right choice for us.

There are a variety of reasons, some medical, some financial, some personal.

If we ever feel, with certainty, that we *have* to have another, we'll adopt. But, honestly, I don't see us doing that (wanting another).

In response to a PP: my mother also had the horrid child first (me







: ) followed by what was apparently the easiest baby known to man (my sister). Or maybe she just appeared that way because she came AFTER me.

As far as spacing for siblings..My sister and I are 2.5 years apart (31 months, to be precise), btw, and did NOT get along at ALL (very different personalities and interests). My husband is 51 months younger than his older brother, and they got along very well growing up (bro. died at 19). I don't think spacing matters for siblings as much as personality. I nannied for a family with three kids whose spacing was 17.5 months between 1 and 2, and 29 months between 2 and 3, and 2 and 3 get along MUCH better than 1 and 2...1 is very clingy and timid, while 2 and 3 are much more outgoing and independent.


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## apple_dumpling (Oct 20, 2004)

I think that, as pp's have said, it just depends on you and your family (and your child's personality)

Honestly I'm kind of ready to start thinking about a second baby, and so is DH (he has been for a year or so now though







) BUT I don't think that dd is quite ready for a sibling. She's very high needs, mama-centric, and I just don't think she's ready to 'share' me right now.







I can see her getting a little displaced with a newborn in the house, so we're waiting for now.

I really think that we'll probably start TTC when she's about 3 or 3.5 (she's just about 2.5 now). I do realize that nine months from now she might be ready for a sibling, but I'd just rather wait until I can actually see that... so we'll probably have about a four year spacing if I we don't have any obstacles to TTC.

One of my best friends has a toddler (about 1.5), a preschooler (about 3.5) and a newborn on the way, she's due in September. She makes it look effortless, really







I myself couldn't handle that... so you have to assess your personal comfort level I guess!


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NicaG* 
Personally, I just knew I wanted at least 3 years between kids. I had a rough pregnancy, and I know I will have gestational diabetes with the next pregnancy, and I just wasn't ready to go through it all again so soon. I also knew that dh and I couldn't handle another so soon without losing our minds. We don't have any family nearby to help out, and it's hard. One toddler in the house is hard enough on a relationship; I didn't want to add a new baby to the mix quite yet. I don't really care so much about providing a "close" sibling for ds, because it seems like there's no rhyme or reason to whether siblings end up having a close relationship. If they're friends, great; if not, oh well.

Good post. I think whether and how soon to have a second baby (or more) depends a lot on how your first pregnancy and labor went, how much support you had to care for the newborn and yourself following the birth, and of course what personality your toddler has, and probably a lot of other variable issues that will differ so radically from woman to woman.

I'm reading this thread with interest, but personally when I think about the possibility of having a second child, it really scares me.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alllyssa* 
Two years apart is so hard on the toddler, and the mom who feels torn between her two babies, and on the baby who might be minorly neglected because mom is busy with the older baby - It's hard on dad too because mom is stressed and overworked and not feeling able to be a loving partner to him.


This is what I have heard from other people and it is exactly why I am very hesitant about having more than one.


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## mothragirl (Sep 10, 2005)

we never TTC, but we didn't totally avoid either. i didn't want an only child and i wanted them kinda close in age, but i have commitment issues so this was the best way to do it


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Swirly* 
At 17 months now, with a baby who still is up 3-5 times per night and who is mentally and physically exhausting (but also a joy and delight), I think we are finally reaching the point where my DH will go get his vasectomy. (please God, let it be soon) I could never, ever do this again.

We also have zero desire to have another, ever, and dh will probably get the V in the next year. Although we had a very rough start (PPD and severe bfing problems), dd is actually a very easygoing little one--happy, independent, etc. Our desire to have only one is not b/c she's "difficult", but b/c we really, frankly, want our lives and careers back to some semblance of normalcy. We love dd more than anything in the world, but we do not love parenting; and the toll it's taken on my work is especially vexing. I do not feel comfortable hiring a nanny or using daycare (though I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with others doing so--it's just a personal feeling), and I cannot, CANNOT be a full-time care provider for another 5 or 6 years (assuming a second child--so a couple of more years with dd and then 2-3 with another child). Bfing will never be easy for me, as I have an underlying medical condition that makes it painful (Raynaud's syndrome), and I couldn't bear to do several more years of that either.

All that aside, we are very enthusiastic about life as a family of three. We feel that the freedom it will give us--financially, professionally, logistically--will be wonderful. We can send dd to the schools we want to, w/o worrying about paying for other educations. We can travel more easily. We won't outgrow our home. We also feel it is an ecologically responsible choice.

Dd has many cousins and we have many friends who have or will have children. We don't feel that she will be "lonely." Dh and I both have siblings, and we are friendly but not particularly close with any of them, and two of mine are are estranged from my family. I don't believe that siblings guarantee that kids will not be lonely, that they will have companionship when they're older, that they'll have "someone to play with," that they'll necessarily have someone to share the burden of elderly parents (in so many families I've seen, one sibling ends up with all the responsibilty and ends up feeling used and resentful), etc. I know many people who have wonderful relationships with their siblings and many who had/have antagonistic relationships, growing up and/or in adulthood. I have nothing but awe for those who parent more than one--and I can understand the many reasons for having 2+, even if I don't share them--but I know many happy, well-adjusted only children, and I don't believe that any one family dynamic is the "key" to happiness. I feel every parent, or pair of parents, should do what is best for her and/or his own family, period.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *khrys* 
I know this is a very personal decision, but a vasectomy is pretty hard to reverse if you change your mind when your baby is older. Also, as a pp mentioned, your next baby might be really easy!

Just wanted to reiterate what I said above--there are many reasons for only having one, not just b/c the first is "difficult." I don't think anyone considering permanent birth control takes it lightly.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

This is an interesting topic. I think the decision is a very personal one that is based on widely varying circumstances in each of our lives.

I know several mothers who are pregnant with their second baby and their first baby is younger than mine.

I am really in awe of them, because I still feel completely overwhelmed by one child, although things are starting to feel normal and managable.

I think it depends very much if you have a strong support system, such as a parent/grandparent who will help you or a husband/partner who has flexible work hours, or maybe is a stay at home parent or can work from home so that you are not alone caring for a newborn the bulk of the time.


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Just a note: a vasectomy is very painful and potentially dangerous...I wouldn't put my dh thru it unless he volunteers...
I wouldn't get my tubes tied either...too afraid...

However, I have one very spirited child and I feel guilty not to give a sibling, but I have NO DESIRE to have another one. First year was such hell for me, I cannot imagine going thru it again.
If God came to me and said: Jane, your next child will be a very calm, sweet and easy baby girl, I would contemplate. However, there is no guarantee I won't have another little menace.

It's really not about career or getting my life back, it's about my relationship with my DH that has never gotten quite back on track yet after such demanding 2 years.


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## joliara (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Janelovesmax* 
Just a note: a vasectomy is very painful and potentially dangerous...I wouldn't put my dh thru it unless he volunteers...
I wouldn't get my tubes tied either...too afraid...

Where on earth did you get that idea? From what I understand new procedures are of outpatient quality; if done with the right doc, there is very little pain which only lasts a few days. And potentially dangerous? Is he getting his balls hacked off with a saw or what? I'm pretty sure if you have a qualified doctor do the procedure, it's not any more dangerous than, well, a not very dangerous medical procedure. Also, how would you "put your husband through it" if he _didn't_ volunteer? strap him down? of course he's going to have to volunteer!

I do agree that vasectomy is a much better option than a tubal. Tubal is open surgery (well, I guess some might do it laproscopically now, I'm not sure), an in-patient procedure, and requires much longer and more painful recovery.

But my understanding is that vasectomy is way less invasive, painful, dangerous, etc.

It's fine for you and your husband if that's not your choice, but why go around scaring other people?


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## *guest (Oct 7, 2005)

To the "second one may be easier" crowd - while I personally appreciate optimism, practically, I think it's important to plan for a worst case scenario. It would be irresponsible to my own mental health and to my current daughter's happiness to assume my next one will not be high needs. We'd have to find it in ourselves to really want another new life to join us, come hell or high water, come hideous birth, hideous breastfeeding problems, no sleep, months of thrush, allergies, general high needs, PPD, relationship stress, career worries, you name it. So, all that said, if we said "yes, it will be at least as bad as round 1, if not worse, but it's totally going to be worth it" and we went ahead fully prepared for battle, we'd be living a dream if it turned out easier. But counting on an easier ride can only lead to disappointment if the second child and our coping skills are still not aligned.

I think the real answer to when/whether to have a second is "you just know." It's fun to argue all the reasons for whose plan is better on the internet, and some people are being very introspective and thoughtful in the process, but I think you'll feel it in your gut and somehow be guided to the next step when it's time (or not time).


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Janelovesmax* 
Just a note: a vasectomy is very painful and potentially dangerous...I wouldn't put my dh thru it unless he volunteers...
I wouldn't get my tubes tied either...too afraid...

Actually, a vasectomy is a very safe, outpatient procedure. The 2 guys I know who have had them (one is my BIL) found them to be totally no big deal. Yes, any procedure has SOME risk, however small, of complications--but so do most forms of birth control (the pill, IUD, etc.)--and so do pregnancy and birth, for that matter. There is no form of birth control that I both trust and feel to be safe (we use condoms, which are safe, but which we hate and which will not 100% guarantee that I will not get pregnant). A V seems a far better long-term option than 25 or so years of birth control that we don't like, abstinence, or fear of getting pregnant. (And that fear is HUGE for us.) Dh is frankly quite eager to get it done. Like me, he absolutely doesn't want another child, and he would like for sex to be more enjoyable again--no fear of pregnancy, no condoms. A tubal ligation, on the other hand, is a much more serious and riskier procedure.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommitola* 
To the "second one may be easier" crowd - while I personally appreciate optimism, practically, I think it's important to plan for a worst case scenario. It would be irresponsible to my own mental health and to my current daughter's happiness to assume my next one will not be high needs. We'd have to find it in ourselves to really want another new life to join us, come hell or high water, come hideous birth, hideous breastfeeding problems, no sleep, months of thrush, allergies, general high needs, PPD, relationship stress, career worries, you name it. So, all that said, if we said "yes, it will be at least as bad as round 1, if not worse, but it's totally going to be worth it" and we went ahead fully prepared for battle, we'd be living a dream if it turned out easier. But counting on an easier ride can only lead to disappointment if the second child and our coping skills are still not aligned.

I think the real answer to when/whether to have a second is "you just know." It's fun to argue all the reasons for whose plan is better on the internet, and some people are being very introspective and thoughtful in the process, but I think you'll feel it in your gut and somehow be guided to the next step when it's time (or not time).

ITA with all of the above. I think gut is the most important factor--we have lots of logical reasons for only wanting one, but I know all those reasons would be insignificant to us if we felt in our hearts that we wanted another.

And I agree that you can't bank on the second one being easier. S/he might be. But you also might have a high-needs baby or a special-needs child or any number of problems. My friend's second baby has serious mental and some physical disabilities--he is deeply loved and wanted, of course, but he is definitely not "easier" than their first. I also know a family where bfing was a breeze until the third child--and then the mom had a horrific time. So you never know.


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## mommato5 (Feb 19, 2007)

The least I have between kids is 20 months. I'm cool with that!! I would be totally ok if my dh said he wanted to TTC #6 right now!

EVERY age difference has it's own set of challenges.

I take all my kids out and it doesn't phase me a bit!! I love getting out with them. We go out all the time.

As a sidenote- I read somewhere that there is a corraltion between prostate cancer and Vascetomy. Surgically altering your body isn't natural and has MANY more risks than just leaving it alone!


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## joliara (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommato5* 
As a sidenote- I read somewhere that there is a corraltion between prostate cancer and Vascetomy. Surgically altering your body isn't natural and has MANY more risks than just leaving it alone!

Again, if you're going to use scare tactics, please back them up with research. http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...Risk/vasectomy According to the national cancer institute, there is no scientific correlation.

Of course surgically altering your body isn't natural. Neither is suppressing the "natural" urge to reproduce. That doesn't mean I'm going to keep popping out kids as long as I'm physically able.


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## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Janelovesmax* 
Just a note: a vasectomy is very painful and potentially dangerous...I wouldn't put my dh thru it unless he volunteers...
I wouldn't get my tubes tied either...too afraid...

.

Any surgery carries risks, but the risks with vas. are extremely small.
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/vasectomy/page2_em.htm
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/bir.../vasectomy.htm

RE: Prostate Cancer

http://www.umm.edu/men/vasect.htm - Studies published in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1993 suggested that there is a "weak, positive association" between prostate cancer and vasectomy...HOWEVER, more RECENT studies find no association between prostate cancer and vasectomy: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/gca?sen...ca=287/23/3110


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## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 

And I agree that you can't bank on the second one being easier. S/he might be. But you also might have a high-needs baby or a special-needs child or any number of problems. My friend's second baby has serious mental and some physical disabilities--he is deeply loved and wanted, of course, but he is definitely not "easier" than their first.

This is one of the reasons we're NOT having a second. DH has a history of birth defects in his family...three sibs dead at/right after birth, a brother who died at 19 of a cong. heart defect, among other problems, and a sister with some major problems. Some issues are hereditary, some appear to have been horrible luck on his mom's part. DH's body is also riddled with chemicals after two tours in Iraq, so, who knows what effect that could have. He loves his siblings, but, being sandwiched between *two* special needs kids (his sister was an "oops" after a failed tubal) who were constantly in and out of the hospital, his parents simply didn't have time for him.

I've said it before...we played Russian roulette...we figured if Katie was special needs, with no other children, we'd be able to handle it with no serious repurcussions. Were we to have another, the chance of a special needs child is more than we're willing to risk, and, were that to happen, would take up the majority of our parenting resources. Not something we're willing to do to Katie or ourselves. Call me selfish.


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## Carma (Feb 10, 2006)

We had infertility issues when TTC our first, it took us 3 years, a varicocele repair, IUI/injections and finally IVF. So I didn't worry about birth control after DD was born








But I got pregnant naturally this time, and they will be ~23 months apart. Sometimes I feel like it will be very hard. DD is still too small to understand what will happen exactly. But I will be tandem nursing (we didn't give up nursing despite the no milk and sensitive nipples). And I have 2 sibblings very close in age which I liked a lot growing up.
I am working full time and DD will stay part time in daycare when the new one is born, so I feel I will have one-on-one with the new baby also.
Without fertility issues I probably would have tried to plan them 3 years apart, so I knew for sure I could nurse DD for 2 years at least.

Carma


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## DeeCee (Jun 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommato5* 
As a sidenote- I read somewhere that there is a corraltion between prostate cancer and Vascetomy. Surgically altering your body isn't natural and has MANY more risks than just leaving it alone!

For me personally, having 5 kids is a much bigger risk to my physical and mental health, then letting my willing DH get a vascetomy!


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alllyssa* 
Two years apart is so hard on the toddler, and the mom who feels torn between her two babies, and on the baby who might be minorly neglected because mom is busy with the older baby - It's hard on dad too because mom is stressed and overworked and not feeling able to be a loving partner to him.

My best advice is to wait another year, at least. I've had 3 that were 2 years apart and then waited 6 years and then waited 5 years and let me tell you that it was SO nice to have an older child who could go potty by themselves, fix a bowl of cereal, turn on the TV - I didn't have to do everything for everyone and it made a big difference on how I felt about mothering and caring for my children - I actually got to enjoy my baby!

I agree. A 4 year spacing is really, really nice IMO. For you and for the kids. My sister and I are 4 years apart, and brother is four years younger than she is. My dd1 and dd2 are 4 years apart (on purpose, because it worked so well in my original family - when we were kids, and adults). Dd2 and dd3 are 2.75 years apart. Doable but definitely harder. Dd2 had the worst of it, and continues to. She had to grow up quick when dd3 came along. Dd1 got all the time she needed to go through that early childhood before dd2 came. Dd2 didn't get that.







But she does have a doting little sister.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Petersmamma* 
Ds will be fully potty trained, hopefully be sleeping in his own bed all night (this is important to me because I love co-sleeping but do NOT want to do it with TWO kids), and will be old enough to amuse himself at times and possibly even amuse his younger sibling. He will also be old enough to understand that he needs to be gentle with the baby (a friend has two that are not quite 2 years apart and she says the older one will try to hurt the younger one when he is tired and it's really hard on her because she wants to protect her baby, but the older one is her baby too







: ).

Further, down the line....there will be a LARGE gap between when they can drive and go to college. This is important to me because I want to get my kids a car, but I don't think we could afford to have FOUR cars! Also, I would prefer to have just one kid in college at one time. I know that our money situation could change, but realistically, I don't think we'll ever be having tea with Mr. Monopoly and I want to retire with dignity and I ALSO want to be able to do the things for my kids that my parents didn't do for me, so thinking that far ahead helps me to be rational when I look at ds' itty bitty baby clothes (had to get them out for a friend).

I also agree with all this. I think besides being easier on the parents and the older sibling(s) to have a four year spacing when they are kids, it is also less financial drain to not have two or three kids in college at the same time, and hopefully the wedding costs will be spread out some too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lunaria* 
I have an almost 3 year old dd and a 7mo ds, and it is exhausting. I thought dd would be old enough to kind of want to help and be involved with her little brother, but she hasn't had much to do with him. I constantly feel like there isn't enough of me to go around.

I know! When dd1 was four (and dd2 came along), she was a great helper. She wanted more independence by that time, and was really able to wait while I changed a diaper or nursed the baby, could walk near me in the parking lot without holding hands to keep her close. She had gotten four years of undivided attention, and really wanted a sibling.

But when dd3 came along, dd2 was only 2.75. Just a little over a year younger than dd1 was when becoming a big sister, but it was a BIG difference. She really was still a baby...







She couldn't wait for me to help her; there was a lot of sadness and frustration and anger. She also loves her little sister of course. It was just harder - on us and on her - to have less than three year spacing. Four is just easier - having done it both ways.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Viriditas* 
I often feel that really strong hormonal pull to have another baby, and I wonder if by spacing my children further apart I am making it less likely they'll be close.

FWIW, I'm 4-1/2 years older than my only sister and we're very close as adults.


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## Carley (Aug 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spring Flower* 
Good post. I think whether and how soon to have a second baby (or more) depends a lot on how your first pregnancy and labor went, how much support you had to care for the newborn and yourself following the birth, and of course what personality your toddler has, and probably a lot of other variable issues that will differ so radically from woman to woman.

Weird! For us whether and how soon to have a second child depends soley on us, the Mom & Dad, wanting to expand our family (not "wanting a baby"!)! My DD screamed day & night & fought sleep until recently (15 mo). We had no help or support until last month when my in-laws moved closer. My family is not only not helpful, but anti-helpful. I was also sick my entire pregnancy. Horrid!

After our first screamer we're somewhat afraid of babies but thankfully they grow into toddlers/children/adults in a blink & we simply love the relationship & learning we get from children & feel blessed (most of the time







) to have the opportunity to watch a new individual grow into the world. If I could somehow birth a toddler it would be wonderful! But again, the means outweigh the ends.


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## Carley (Aug 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
Dd has many cousins and we have many friends who have or will have children. We don't feel that she will be "lonely."


The mentality that only children will be lonely is so false! Having a second child for a "friend" for your first just doesn't make sense to me. Friends are family YOU choose & siblings are family your parents choose! Personally I don't get along with anyone in my family! My mother had my brother 9 years after me because she thought it would be for my benefit. My mother hates kids (& most adults too!)! Why oh why mom!?!?! Why couldn't you just have hated me?







My brother and I get along now, but as you can imagine growing up in a hateful household was hard on both of us.

I want to have another child because my partner & I want to partake in another journey as parents. We love people & get great enjoyment of watching them grow & learn. In fact, I expect that my kids probably wont get along a lot of the time. I am prepared to be creative & model problem solving & maybe someday they'll want to strive to be excellent to one another. Maybe they'll never speak again. Who knows, but at least we have realistic expectations & got to observe their own individual journeys, something we truly enjoy. We also get to challenge ourselves in new ways that we never thought of. There is nothing sexier to me than seeing my husband/soulmate be a father.

I also plan on enjoying the lessons they will most likely teach each other, from how to pinch someone without getting caught to how to convince someone to do something wrong & then snitch on them for it




























Sounds like a barrel of monkeys to me!

Did I mention my criteria for second child comes with third row seating as to seperate any touching in the car?

Yeah.


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## Carley (Aug 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
I also agree with all this. I think besides being easier on the parents and the older sibling(s) to have a four year spacing when they are kids, it is also less financial drain to not have two or three kids in college at the same time, and hopefully the wedding costs will be spread out some too..

I hear this a lot from people trying to convince me to space my children further apart. Isn't that funny? Some people actually try to tell others what child spacing is best?





































I'm only sharing this information because I find the contrast so interesting. Not because I think you are wrong or right. I think whatever you do is best for you and that is totally awesome. Anyway!

My BIL attended Duke out of highschool on his own student loan process that his parents used as a learning experience, guiding him through the process. Now he has a full ride scholarship at Yales' school of medicine.

My brother was given thousands of dollers in state education credits & they are unused to this day. He recently moved in with a friend, has no job (how does he pay rent? we don't know!), too many rats (weird!) & plays a lot of video games.

Every individual is so different. If someone wants to go to college, they will go to college whether it's paid for or not & vice versa.


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## Tellera (Oct 28, 2005)

"Quote:
Originally Posted by *Spring Flower*
Good post. I think whether and how soon to have a second baby (or more) depends a lot on how your first pregnancy and labor went, how much support you had to care for the newborn and yourself following the birth, and of course what personality your toddler has, and probably a lot of other variable issues that will differ so radically from woman to woman."

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Carley* 
Weird! For us whether and how soon to have a second child depends soley on us, the Mom & Dad, wanting to expand our family (not "wanting a baby"!)! My DD screamed day & night & fought sleep until recently (15 mo). We had no help or support until last month when my in-laws moved closer. My family is not only not helpful, but anti-helpful. I was also sick my entire pregnancy. Horrid!

After our first screamer we're somewhat afraid of babies but thankfully they grow into toddlers/children/adults in a blink & we simply love the relationship & learning we get from children & feel blessed (most of the time







) to have the opportunity to watch a new individual grow into the world. If I could somehow birth a toddler it would be wonderful! But again, the means outweigh the ends.

"Weird" as a response to SF's post seems a little disrespectful. Everyone is sharing here and we all have our own viewpoints/opinions/life experiences. Making someone feel that what they have gleaned from their own experience is "weird" seems sort of rude. Maybe I'm just understanding your response wrong?


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## Carley (Aug 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tellera* 
"Weird" as a response to SF's post seems a little disrespectful. Everyone is sharing here and we all have our own viewpoints/opinions/life experiences. Making someone feel that what they have gleaned from their own experience is "weird" seems sort of rude. Maybe I'm just understanding your response wrong?


You're right! It does look that way! Thank you for pointing that out before someone felt attacked!

To clarify, I don't think SF, her experience or her post are "weird," I think her point was awesome. So valid, in fact, that it made me reflect on my own experience as "weird" since my pregnancy was miserable, our only support was my husband & myself, my newborn cried day in & out regardless of my attempts to "fix" her, I experienced "postpartum" intensly and my toddler is the epitome of spirited yet we are still TTC. Maybe "I'm probably completely insane" would have been a better way to put it









Anyway, thank you for the opportunity to clarify myself!


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## BethSLP (Mar 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Carley* 

Did I mention my criteria for second child comes with third row seating as to seperate any touching in the car?

Yeah.

ROFLMAO!

I really really wish someone would put this on the commercials for a minivan. Forget the DVD player, we need 3rd row seating to prevent "mom! he's on my side! mom! he's touching me!"

XOXO
B


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

*HONESTLY*, the MIL of my MIL (got that? dh's paternal grandma) told us that if we had an only child, she would turn out just like my MIL, who's an only child. We started trying for #2 that night!

(Nothing against other only children, but the thought of our child turning out like my MIL scared us!)


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## beccalou79 (Mar 16, 2007)

I was all ready to reply with this big, lengthy dissertation on the pros and cons of having closely spaced kids, since my two little ones are just 20 months apart and I feel like the poster child for this lifestyle.







But you know, as I look at my newborn's face, I can see that none of that stuff is even close to what really matters. Yeah, she may grow up and be a great playmate for my older girl-- but so what? She consumes a lot of what little free time I have-- but who cares? To try to distill her existence down to simply a positive or negative impact on my life is kinda ridiculous, because her existence is not about me at all. And to weigh her value against whether or not I'll be able to catch a movie for the next few years... well, it just seems silly when I look at it that way. Like all children, she's so much more than that.

To me, being open to another child is reaching outside yourself, it's sidestepping all that pro and con stuff, it's saying yes to more love even when it's hard to do so. And being a parent _is_ hard, no matter if you have one kid or 10, no matter if they're deemed easygoing or high-needs.

Anyway, the bottom line is this: If your intuition or your gut or the small, still voice in your heart-- whatever you call that internal direction we all have-- is telling you to be open to another life, base your decision on _that_. Forget how impossible it'll be to enjoy a fancy restaurant meal for the next couple of years; forget how nice it'll be for your older kid to have a sibling; forget all that stuff and concentrate instead on what your very soul is telling you. We rely on logic too much for matters of the heart, and I think it rarely (if ever) serves us.

Best of luck to you, mama, whichever way you go! I'm sure it will all work out for you.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Carley* 
I hear this a lot from people trying to convince me to space my children further apart. Isn't that funny? Some people actually try to tell others what child spacing is best?





































I'm only sharing this information because I find the contrast so interesting. Not because I think you are wrong or right. I think whatever you do is best for you and that is totally awesome.

The abundance of smilies seems to indicate that you in fact do think I am wrong. Which is certainly your right. We all have opinions on this board. But I see that you have a one year old child. Come back in ten years when you've seen firsthand the pros and cons of your kids' spacing. I'm happy to wait a decade to have a conversation about it again.


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## Carley (Aug 16, 2005)

beccalou79 that was a beautifully articulated post. Your words touched me deeply. Thank you!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
The abundance of smilies seems to indicate that you in fact do think I am wrong. Which is certainly your right. We all have opinions on this board. But I see that you have a one year old child. Come back in ten years when you've seen firsthand the pros and cons of your kids' spacing. I'm happy to wait a decade to have a conversation about it again.

I'm sorry that my smiles indicated that I thought you were wrong. Once again the internet has proved a faulty method of communication for me! My smiles were meant to animate my laughing at the thought of people who think other people are wrong for making different choices. I don't think you are wrong at all. I believe you experienced sadness and frustration and anger with your 2.75 year spacing because you said so.

My mother in law had 4 children each 15 months apart. 34 years later they are all grown & she only remembers joy.

Based on my experience with my first child after our second is born (if we are fortunate enough to conceive) I will probably regret having any children for at least the first 9 months, swear off any future breeding, get an IUD 6 weeks postpartum & then come back to my dream of a large close family (like my husbands) again by the end of the first year (note: that was typed in total jest of myself & not intended to offend anyone)

Happy breeding/sterilization everyone!


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## DeeCee (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks for the lovely post beccalou79. Just what I needed to hear!


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## ryansma (Sep 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beccalou79* 
I was all ready to reply with this big, lengthy dissertation on the pros and cons of having closely spaced kids, since my two little ones are just 20 months apart and I feel like the poster child for this lifestyle.







But you know, as I look at my newborn's face, I can see that none of that stuff is even close to what really matters. Yeah, she may grow up and be a great playmate for my older girl-- but so what? She consumes a lot of what little free time I have-- but who cares? To try to distill her existence down to simply a positive or negative impact on my life is kinda ridiculous, because her existence is not about me at all. And to weigh her value against whether or not I'll be able to catch a movie for the next few years... well, it just seems silly when I look at it that way. Like all children, she's so much more than that.

To me, being open to another child is reaching outside yourself, it's sidestepping all that pro and con stuff, it's saying yes to more love even when it's hard to do so. And being a parent _is_ hard, no matter if you have one kid or 10, no matter if they're deemed easygoing or high-needs.

Anyway, the bottom line is this: If your intuition or your gut or the small, still voice in your heart-- whatever you call that internal direction we all have-- is telling you to be open to another life, base your decision on _that_. Forget how impossible it'll be to enjoy a fancy restaurant meal for the next couple of years; forget how nice it'll be for your older kid to have a sibling; forget all that stuff and concentrate instead on what your very soul is telling you. We rely on logic too much for matters of the heart, and I think it rarely (if ever) serves us.

Best of luck to you, mama, whichever way you go! I'm sure it will all work out for you.


GREAT post!!


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beccalou79* 
I was all ready to reply with this big, lengthy dissertation on the pros and cons of having closely spaced kids, since my two little ones are just 20 months apart and I feel like the poster child for this lifestyle.







But you know, as I look at my newborn's face, I can see that none of that stuff is even close to what really matters. Yeah, she may grow up and be a great playmate for my older girl-- but so what? She consumes a lot of what little free time I have-- but who cares? To try to distill her existence down to simply a positive or negative impact on my life is kinda ridiculous, because her existence is not about me at all. And to weigh her value against whether or not I'll be able to catch a movie for the next few years... well, it just seems silly when I look at it that way. Like all children, she's so much more than that.

To me, being open to another child is reaching outside yourself, it's sidestepping all that pro and con stuff, it's saying yes to more love even when it's hard to do so. And being a parent _is_ hard, no matter if you have one kid or 10, no matter if they're deemed easygoing or high-needs.

Anyway, the bottom line is this: If your intuition or your gut or the small, still voice in your heart-- whatever you call that internal direction we all have-- is telling you to be open to another life, base your decision on _that_. Forget how impossible it'll be to enjoy a fancy restaurant meal for the next couple of years; forget how nice it'll be for your older kid to have a sibling; forget all that stuff and concentrate instead on what your very soul is telling you. We rely on logic too much for matters of the heart, and I think it rarely (if ever) serves us.

Best of luck to you, mama, whichever way you go! I'm sure it will all work out for you.

And, at the same time, I think it's brave to resist the societal pressure that tells you "You must have two or more!" and have the self-awareness to know that bringing another child into the world will cause more stress on your family, your self, your marriage, whatever than you can handle. If your heart tells you that the time is not right for you (now or ever) to have another child, you are not selfish, you are not harming your first child, you are not thinking only of fancy restaurant meals and missed sleep. But, yes, some people DO care about free time and time to nurture our marriages and our careers, and even--gasp!--the occasional dinner out, because for some of us the absence of those things becomes psychologically debilitating and saps our energy and joy. Some of us do not thrive with noise or chaos, and would buckle under the strain of a house full of people. Some of us simply feel we do not have more to give, and that doesn't make us selfish--it makes us realistic. Some of us feel we do not have the resources to support more children. Some of us suffered through severe PPD or medically complicated pregnancies and feel it would cause more harm than good to go through those things again.

There are more ways to find happiness and fulfillment than through children, and if you need to nurture some of those alternatives, and having more than one child does not allow you to do so, you should not feel guilty about being "closed" to a new life.


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## pixilixi (Jun 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
And, at the same time, I think it's brave to resist the societal pressure that tells you "You must have two or more!" and have the self-awareness to know that bringing another child into the world will cause more stress on your family, your self, your marriage, whatever than you can handle. If your heart tells you that the time is not right for you (now or ever) to have another child, you are not selfish, you are not harming your first child, you are not thinking only of fancy restaurant meals and missed sleep. But, yes, some people DO care about free time and time to nurture our marriages and our careers, and even--gasp!--the occasional dinner out, because for some of us the absence of those things becomes psychologically debilitating and saps our energy and joy. Some of us do not thrive with noise or chaos, and would buckle under the strain of a house full of people. Some of us simply feel we do not have more to give, and that doesn't make us selfish--it makes us realistic. Some of us feel we do not have the resources to support more children. Some of us suffered through severe PPD or medically complicated pregnancies and feel it would cause more harm than good to go through those things again.

There are more ways to find happiness and fulfillment than through children, and if you need to nurture some of those alternatives, and having more than one child does not allow you to do so, you should not feel guilty about being "closed" to a new life.

Thankyou for writing this. I loved Beccalou79's post and totally agreed, but personally, I have no desire for another child (and may never have, who knows yet?).

Some families thrive as a busy household; me and my partner thrive in a calm environment. I am very introverted, and as the primary caregiver 23.5hrs a day to an exuberant (yes, and wakeful) toddler, I sometimes feel like my inner self is crippled so I can be present for my boy as much as I would like to.

But, there *is* so much pressure for folks to have more than one. There is a presumption (albeit hidden) that parents of onlies are "selfish".

If only everyone were as tolerant of individual differences as posters here. Interesting discussion - and best wishes to the OP.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Carley* 
beccalou79 that was a beautifully articulated post. Your words touched me deeply. Thank you!









:

I actually emailed it to DH, since we just put the 2nd child conversation on the table! (This is how we ended up with Lucy... not actually trying, but having a conversation and then agreeing, kind of, to stop trying not to try... ooh. I'm confusing myself!)


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## cmom80 (Oct 18, 2006)

Yeah to everybody







LOL

I'm sticking with my previous assertation that I'd feel more comfortable waiting a few years.

However, beccalou's post almost made me change my mind. For a minute.


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## mommato5 (Feb 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beccalou79* 
I was all ready to reply with this big, lengthy dissertation on the pros and cons of having closely spaced kids, since my two little ones are just 20 months apart and I feel like the poster child for this lifestyle.







But you know, as I look at my newborn's face, I can see that none of that stuff is even close to what really matters. Yeah, she may grow up and be a great playmate for my older girl-- but so what? She consumes a lot of what little free time I have-- but who cares? To try to distill her existence down to simply a positive or negative impact on my life is kinda ridiculous, because her existence is not about me at all. And to weigh her value against whether or not I'll be able to catch a movie for the next few years... well, it just seems silly when I look at it that way. Like all children, she's so much more than that.

To me, being open to another child is reaching outside yourself, it's sidestepping all that pro and con stuff, it's saying yes to more love even when it's hard to do so. And being a parent _is_ hard, no matter if you have one kid or 10, no matter if they're deemed easygoing or high-needs.

Anyway, the bottom line is this: If your intuition or your gut or the small, still voice in your heart-- whatever you call that internal direction we all have-- is telling you to be open to another life, base your decision on _that_. Forget how impossible it'll be to enjoy a fancy restaurant meal for the next couple of years; forget how nice it'll be for your older kid to have a sibling; forget all that stuff and concentrate instead on what your very soul is telling you. We rely on logic too much for matters of the heart, and I think it rarely (if ever) serves us.

Best of luck to you, mama, whichever way you go! I'm sure it will all work out for you.


Very well said!!!! I think I'm going to send this to my dh as well!!! I feel the exact same way.

Material things hold no value to me. My husband and children mean everything to me, they are what is valuable in life. We only have a short amount of time with our children. *I* believe God provides.


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## Swirly (May 20, 2006)

Well, to put more clarity around my other post, I will add that my husband and I never wantd ANY children. The one we got is a blessing, but parenting truly is pretty much everything negative I ever feared. I just never knew about the good stuff too!

We are very happy with our family size and want to make sure we get no more surprises. I am almost 37, have chronic fatigue syndrome, am introverted, have sensory issues - especially with sound, and get ill when I lose too much sleep. I am not all that cut out to be a mom. Our marriage has suffered tremendously with our new addition. My highly introverted husband is losing his mind, I think (due tolack of alone time). I owe over 70k in student loans, and will have to return to work and pay them back one day, and more kids would make that more difficult. For many reasons, we know we need to stop at one, and if that makes us selfish or materialistic to some of you, I can live with that


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beccalou79* 
I was all ready to reply with this big, lengthy dissertation on the pros and cons of having closely spaced kids, since my two little ones are just 20 months apart and I feel like the poster child for this lifestyle.







But you know, as I look at my newborn's face, I can see that none of that stuff is even close to what really matters. Yeah, she may grow up and be a great playmate for my older girl-- but so what? She consumes a lot of what little free time I have-- but who cares? To try to distill her existence down to simply a positive or negative impact on my life is kinda ridiculous, because her existence is not about me at all. And to weigh her value against whether or not I'll be able to catch a movie for the next few years... well, it just seems silly when I look at it that way. Like all children, she's so much more than that.

To me, being open to another child is reaching outside yourself, it's sidestepping all that pro and con stuff, it's saying yes to more love even when it's hard to do so. And being a parent _is_ hard, no matter if you have one kid or 10, no matter if they're deemed easygoing or high-needs.

Anyway, the bottom line is this: If your intuition or your gut or the small, still voice in your heart-- whatever you call that internal direction we all have-- is telling you to be open to another life, base your decision on _that_. Forget how impossible it'll be to enjoy a fancy restaurant meal for the next couple of years; forget how nice it'll be for your older kid to have a sibling; forget all that stuff and concentrate instead on what your very soul is telling you. We rely on logic too much for matters of the heart, and I think it rarely (if ever) serves us.

Best of luck to you, mama, whichever way you go! I'm sure it will all work out for you.

This is a beautiful post. Thank you. Once a child is born, the pros and cons debate goes away and all that is left is to be a great parent for this new little person and to love them fully.

Before the conception, though, I personally still have to give all these issues careful thought.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Swirly* 
Well, to put more clarity around my other post, I will add that my husband and I never wantd ANY children. The one we got is a blessing, but parenting truly is pretty much everything negative I ever feared. I just never knew about the good stuff too!

We are very happy with our family size and want to make sure we get no more surprises. I am almost 37, have chronic fatigue syndrome, am introverted, have sensory issues - especially with sound, and get ill when I lose too much sleep. I am not all that cut out to be a mom. Our marriage has suffered tremendously with our new addition. My highly introverted husband is losing his mind, I think (due tolack of alone time). I owe over 70k in student loans, and will have to return to work and pay them back one day, and more kids would make that more difficult. For many reasons, we know we need to stop at one, and if that makes us selfish or materialistic to some of you, I can live with that










Oh no I don't think you are selfish. I really think this is such a personal and individual decision and it will be based on so many varying factors. We all have a different set of circumstances that makes it feasible or complicated to have another child.

The weighing of one's circumstances against what type of life you can provide for your child or multiple children is not selfish or materialistic. It's realistic.

If I had 20 children, I would love them all, but I would not be able to provide for them. I will always have enough love, but at some point my resources wear out. Where that point is is different for each of us, which is what this discussion is a about!


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joliara* 
Where on earth did you get that idea? From what I understand new procedures are of outpatient quality; if done with the right doc, there is very little pain which only lasts a few days. And potentially dangerous? Is he getting his balls hacked off with a saw or what? I'm pretty sure if you have a qualified doctor do the procedure, it's not any more dangerous than, well, a not very dangerous medical procedure. Also, how would you "put your husband through it" if he _didn't_ volunteer? strap him down? of course he's going to have to volunteer!

I do agree that vasectomy is a much better option than a tubal. Tubal is open surgery (well, I guess some might do it laproscopically now, I'm not sure), an in-patient procedure, and requires much longer and more painful recovery.

But my understanding is that vasectomy is way less invasive, painful, dangerous, etc.

It's fine for you and your husband if that's not your choice, but why go around scaring other people?

I'm a little surprised that moms on MDC would take vasectomy lightly. It's like saying circumcision is a not a very dangerous procedure...
I know of someone who had it done. He was in pain for days and complained that his libido never quite got back into shape, not to mention the way men can be affected psychologically by it.

I'm not saying it's like heart surgery, but it shouldn't be taken lightly, I think. And as I said, unless my DH VOLUNTEERS to do it, I will never ever even mention it. What I meant before is that enough nagging and enough mentioning and enough begging can work.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Carley* 
My mother in law had 4 children each 15 months apart. 34 years later they are all grown & she only remembers joy.

I think your MIL has a bad memory...









Really, this is one of my pet peeves. I wish that we got a more realistic view of marriage and parenting. You grow up being shielded from the hard parts, not really seeing them. My mother never complained; she did it all. I thought it would be wine and roses as they say. So to have reality hit me like a brick - well, it was hard. I wish I'd known how frustrating it could be; maybe that would have made it easier to deal with when it came.

I guess if we warned them of the hard parts, they might not do it. So I guess I understand why it is swept under the rug. I am torn by this fact every day - my sister doesn't have kids yet. I feel like I should tell her how hard it is. But she might not have kids as it is. If I don't tell her, she'll come back to me later and ask why I didn't... It is lose/lose.

My personal opinion is that spacing four years apart was easier (on the kids and on the parents) than 2+ years apart. It was less stressful. But there was still stress with a four year spacing. I think to infer to women that all their years of parenting were joyful is doing them a great disservice.


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## DeeCee (Jun 22, 2007)

NYCVeg, thank you for your post also. I lean more towards the same views that you've expressed, and am trying to find that balance in my life. I fear that if we have another child, we won't have time for the things that keep ME sane.


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## Carley (Aug 16, 2005)

Hello again Kirsten! Our conversation reminds me of the movie Parenthood. Have you seen it?

Grandma: You know, when I was nineteen, Grandpa took me on a roller coaster.
Gil: Oh?
Grandma: Up, down, up, down. Oh, what a ride!
Gil: What a great story.
Grandma: I always wanted to go again. You know, it was just so interesting to me that a ride could make me so frightened, so scared, so sick, so excited, and so thrilled all together! Some didn't like it. They went on the merry-go-round. That just goes around. Nothing. I like the roller coaster. You get more out of it.

What Grandma meant was that she got more out of the rollercoaster, not that everyone got more out of the rollercoaster, though the idea is still relevant to our different perspectives. I am not arguing that the roller coaster is better, I am saying that it's ok to enjoy different types of rides.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
I think your MIL has a bad memory...









Yes, after 30+ years of working day in & out her feelings of stress faded & now she remembers her years mothering her 4 beautiful grown children with fondness & love. It's easier to feel good about memories when the outcome is already known. The fear is gone. She already knows they "turned out" & she is grateful to have had that experience even though the unknown & day to day was stressful during that time. I hope someday after your girls are grown you provide yourself with a similar luxury. You deserve to feel positive about yourself and your life, even when poop is hitting the fan.

Quote:

You grow up being shielded from the hard parts, not really seeing them. My mother never complained; she did it all. I thought it would be wine and roses as they say. So to have reality hit me like a brick - well, it was hard. I wish I'd known how frustrating it could be; maybe that would have made it easier to deal with when it came.
You mean YOU grew up being shielded from the hard parts. Everyone is different. I was never shielded & grew up in an abusive household. I didn't want children or a family of my own until I saw the outcome of a positive family (& had years of therapy).

My family hates children. Having children, one or fifteen, is not for everybody. People who don't enjoy it shouldn't do it! People don't climb Mt Everest if they don't enjoy hiking. I don't know why people have children, one or fifteen, when it's not for them. It's really too bad.

My unrealistic expectations of newborns came from Attatchment Parenting books that advised me that if I wore my baby, had a homebirth & breastfed my baby would be happy. Maybe that is the majority experience, but it was not mine & that's ok!

Thankfully I am more in my element now that I realize babies cry like toddlers whine. It is developmentally appropriate & I realize now that what matters is how I cope with it. I enjoy learning these life lessons even though they can be scary & stressful. I like rollercoasters!

What an identity crisis it was to begin with & I expect many many more! I shared my scary postpartum experience with other women. I was able to bond with women who had similar experiences, be the spectacle of women who haven't had any similar experiences & made a slew of new friends with who I can share myself honestly in the process. I share my experience with others, I don't tell others what their experience will be because I don't know. There are too many options & they are all interesting. Likewise I am not arguing with your experience. Your experience with your third child was/is stressful! My experience with my first was/is stressful!

We are all mothers! We rise above stress to mother our children in the best way we know how, whether we are mothering one or fifteen! We are all AWESOME!

Quote:

I feel like I should tell her how hard it is. But she might not have kids as it is. If I don't tell her, she'll come back to me later and ask why I didn't... It is lose/lose.
I think you should definitely tell her how hard it is on you. I think you should tell anyone who loves you! You can only benefit from expressing yourself honestly. It is win/win! Most mentally healthy people don't kill themselves because somebody else had a bad experience while living. Don't be afraid others will make choices based on your experience. You deserve support! Especially from your sister! Nobody will know what you need to be supported with until you tell them! You work hard & you deserve credit for what you do! Being a mother is AMAZING(LY challenging/life-changing/selfless/awesome/loving/stressful/happy/sad) & everyone should know & respect it!

Quote:

My personal opinion is that spacing four years apart was easier (on the kids and on the parents) than 2+ years apart.
That is not your opinion but your experience. You experienced sadness and frustration and anger with the birth of your 3rd child. Some people (me!) experience sadness and fustration and anger with the birth of their first. That does not mean that one child is easier than two. As someone mentioned earlier it seems to depend on the people involved & their situation more than an mathmatical equation. If there were a "right" answer we'd all have the same sized families equally spaced (or no children at all)!

Quote:

I think to infer to women that all their years of parenting were joyful is doing them a great disservice.
I agree, though there is a difference between a positive attitude amidst stress and denial of it existing.

My luxury nursing session is ova. This has been such an interesting conversation. Thank you all for having sharing it with me, the longwinded one!

To each their own! You can find me on the crazy rides!


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Carley* 

My unrealistic expectations of newborns came from Attatchment Parenting books that advised me that if I wore my baby, had a homebirth & breastfed my baby would be happy. Maybe that is the majority experience, but it was not mine & that's ok!

Thankfully I am more in my element now that I realize babies cry like toddlers whine. It is developmentally appropriate & I realize now that what matters is how I cope with it. I enjoy learning these life lessons even though they can be scary & stressful. I like rollercoasters!

Thank you for saying this! I think the AP books present the ideal and their recommendations certainly do help, but they are not going to save you all the discomfort, stress, and complications of those early months of newborn care!

I was very unrealistic and thought if I just Ap'ed harder and more consistently it would all be fine. Babies will still cry and toddlers will still whine (maybe just not as much).

Now I know there's more to it than that and that is one reason I am putting off having another baby.


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## Tellera (Oct 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Carley* 
My unrealistic expectations of newborns came from Attatchment Parenting books that advised me that if I wore my baby, had a homebirth & breastfed my baby would be happy. Maybe that is the majority experience, but it was not mine & that's ok!

I third this. And I don't want to say it's all just AP, but I tell you, the Baby Book by Sears really made me feel horrible when I was doing everything "right" and nothing was helping. It ended up just being a grand feat to survive the day and/or night, and I'm glad I am attached, but I certainly did have my expectations smacked all over the place after DS was born.

(oh, and thanks for clarifying earlier!)


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## ryansma (Sep 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
I I think to infer to women that all their years of parenting were joyful is doing them a great disservice.

For some woman it IS joyful *despite* being hard. My mom did it all too and never complained but she did so because she enjoyed it. And I saw and learned from that. As a teen, I would always scoff at how she would take care of my brothers (13, 16 and 19 now) and then not be annoyed when my dad would ask her for a sandwhich. "Dad! Do you not see how hard she is working??!" I would think. But now with age and maturity I see that she -LIKED and even ENJOYED caring for her family. She never said it wasn't hard but she did say she wouldn't have it any other way. And I learned from that too and I make an effort to find joy - I think its a choice - in my every day. I don't _expect_ every other mom to do the same but I think it's possible for anyone.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryansma* 
For some woman it IS joyful *despite* being hard.

I do remember the 'joyful despite being hard' times. That was true for me - in the beginning, maybe the first eight years? I was fine through pregnancy, birth, nursing and all the difficulties then ease of that, potty training, traveling with kid(s), sick kids, dp who travels every month for work, and all the rest.

What has gotten me (and it breaks my heart really - because I am the biggest sibling proponent you'll ever find) is the increased chaos, noise, bickering of three kids. It is really hard to find the joy....







:

I have a sister and a brother that I love dearly. And I want that for my kids - as did my dp who grew up an only child. He wished then and today that he'd had that. Before we got married, he made sure I knew that our minimum number of kids was two - he didn't want to have an only after being one.

So this is the hard part. I chose it and we'll get through. But I wish my mom was still alive so I could apologize for what she must have gone through with us.

I had no idea that the baby and toddler stages were the easy part. They were joyful; I do remember that. I just had no idea when I had the three kid family that I dreamed of that it would be more than I could reasonably handle. You don't know your limit until you are past it I guess.

But this is summer; I'll be much better in September!!!


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## hypatia (Apr 29, 2002)

We created our second child on the Wall Street Journal's "Open that Bottle Night."

Oops!


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