# HELP! 9yo boy watching online porn



## lizajane30 (Mar 19, 2005)

Hello, I'm in need of some advice on how to talk to my 9yo son about pornography. A slightly older friend (whose parent is completely neglectful, at best) told him about a porn website and we discussed the issue at the time I discovered it, explaining that porn is not made for kids, it's not how sex really is, and that he could always ask us questions. A month or so later I've discovered he opened the website again and was watching some pretty hardcore stuff. He says it's "interesting" and I've assured him there's nothing wrong with being interested in sex, but that porn is not a healthy way for a kid to learn about it. I have a copy of "It's Perfectly Normal" which he's looked through a bit for the illustrations, but he's not much of a reader and seems to be more of a visual learner (which I think may be part of the appeal of porn). That book doesn't discuss porn at all so I'm wondering if anyone has other recommendations for websites, books etc that could help guide us in talking with him about this. 

Has anyone had their younger tween go through this? I feel like I'm the only one with such a young kid who's been exposed to this!


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## MomWife (Feb 23, 2015)

lizajane30 said:


> Hello, I'm in need of some advice on how to talk to my 9yo son about pornography. A slightly older friend (whose parent is completely neglectful, at best) told him about a porn website and we discussed the issue at the time I discovered it, explaining that porn is not made for kids, it's not how sex really is, and that he could always ask us questions. A month or so later I've discovered he opened the website again and was watching some pretty hardcore stuff. He says it's "interesting" and I've assured him there's nothing wrong with being interested in sex, but that porn is not a healthy way for a kid to learn about it. I have a copy of "It's Perfectly Normal" which he's looked through a bit for the illustrations, but he's not much of a reader and seems to be more of a visual learner (which I think may be part of the appeal of porn). That book doesn't discuss porn at all so I'm wondering if anyone has other recommendations for websites, books etc that could help guide us in talking with him about this.
> 
> Has anyone had their younger tween go through this? I feel like I'm the only one with such a young kid who's been exposed to this!


Wait a minute. Something is very wrong here. You've got a NINE year old with access to hardcore pornography? You are the lax parent and this crosses the line into child neglect and abuse. Get that filth off your computer. It never should have been there in the first place. You have children. YOU control what it is they have access to. You tell him that what he saw is an absolute aberration; that porn is not reflective of normal sexuality AT ALL. It is poison for the young mind. As far as guiding children as to what normal sexuality is, I see no need for further visuals. My recommendation is to find the most conservative, most Godly approach to discussing sexuality with your children. :crying:


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## lizajane30 (Mar 19, 2005)

Um. Wow.

That's not exactly the kind of "support" I was looking for. I don't believe there's anything wrong with children learning about sexuality, and religion has no place in this for us. Thank you for calling me abusive, though. It's very helpful for a parent who's struggling to be called names.


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## MomWife (Feb 23, 2015)

lizajane30 said:


> Um. Wow.
> 
> That's not exactly the kind of "support" I was looking for. I don't believe there's anything wrong with children learning about sexuality, and religion has no place in this for us. Thank you for calling me abusive, though. It's very helpful for a parent who's struggling to be called names.


Look, I wouldn't have answered unless I thought you needed an urgent wake-up call. This is not about you, it's about your child. Get that stuff away from him and get it permanently off your computer. He has to be supervised while online. What he can find on his own online is endless and extends even beyond pornography. Sit him down and explain to him that what he saw is not true sexuality. Explain normal sexuality in an age appropriate fashion....which is going to be hard, given that he's already seen so much more than what is age appropriate. Perhaps in this situation I would consult a professional.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

MomWife said:


> Sit him down and explain to him that what he saw is not true sexuality. Explain normal sexuality in an age appropriate fashion....


Seems to me she's already done this.

Porn is always out there. You can't "get it off your computer." It's on the internet. Kids will find it. As easily as you think you can control their access, it's easy to circumvent the controls. They'll take your iPhone to the bathroom, use proxy servers, watch at their friend's place. This is not an anomaly: a recent survey found that 40% of middle schoolers have watched porn in the previous week. It's basically -- sadly -- normal for kids to have access to porn. What is exceptional in this case is that the parent is aware and has initiated a dialog about the right issues. And that, I think, is awesome.

Increased supervision is probably part of the answer. I think parents need to make basic efforts to make it clear that the viewing is unacceptable, and to minimize opportunity. But they should also know that it's a giant game of whack-a-mole. Ongoing dialog, and communication of values, is what's most important.

Miranda


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## MomWife (Feb 23, 2015)

moominmamma said:


> Seems to me she's already done this.
> 
> Porn is always out there. You can't "get it off your computer." It's on the internet. Kids will find it. As easily as you think you can control their access, it's easy to circumvent the controls. They'll take your iPhone to the bathroom, use proxy servers, watch at their friend's place. This is not an anomaly: a recent survey found that 40% of middle schoolers have watched porn in the previous week. It's basically -- sadly -- normal for kids to have access to porn. What is exceptional in this case is that the parent is aware and has initiated a dialog about the right issues. And that, I think, is awesome.
> 
> ...


40%????!!!! God help us. Mine are 10 and I'm 100% on top of them AT HOME. Now I'm wondering what the kids at school may be showing them. I know some of the kids have phones for purposes of contacting their parents, but heaven knows if the parents may have also given them internet access as well. Jesus Christ.


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## lizajane30 (Mar 19, 2005)

Thank you, Miranda. I appreciate your bringing some reality to this, and I thank you for not making me feel like a terrible mother.

MomWife, I *know* this is a problem. That's why I wrote the post. I'm asking for help, not judgment. As Miranda pointed out, you can't "get it off your computer." I realize that he needs supervision, and I'm trying my best to provide it without violating his trust and making this a taboo subject; I *want* my kids to feel comfortable talking about sex with me. And just to put it out there, not everyone agrees with your assessment of porn as "filth." We all agree it's not appropriate for kids, that's why we're here.

We've tried placing online restrictions on the iPad and for some reason it hasn't actually blocked the sites we're trying to block. We successfully blocked CNN ( :lol ) as a test and now we can't unblock it! Obviously we'll look into it again and see if we can make it work; maybe a trip to the Genius Bar is in order.

To clarify what I was asking for in my OP (besides empathy regarding how difficult this situation is): does anyone have any resources for talking with kids about porn and why it's not a healthy way to learn about sexuality.


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## MomWife (Feb 23, 2015)

lizajane30 said:


> Thank you, Miranda. I appreciate your bringing some reality to this, and I thank you for not making me feel like a terrible mother.
> 
> MomWife, I *know* this is a problem. That's why I wrote the post. I'm asking for help, not judgment. As Miranda pointed out, you can't "get it off your computer." I realize that he needs supervision, and I'm trying my best to provide it without violating his trust and making this a taboo subject; I *want* my kids to feel comfortable talking about sex with me. And just to put it out there, not everyone agrees with your assessment of porn as "filth." We all agree it's not appropriate for kids, that's why we're here.
> 
> ...


Liza Jane, make sure access is blocked 100%. As far as talking to your son, speak from your heart. It is very hard to undo what you learn about sexuality as a child.


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## lizajane30 (Mar 19, 2005)

MomWife said:


> Liza Jane, make sure access is blocked 100%.


I'm curious, do you have internet access completely blocked in your home? How does that work for you? I'm having trouble imagining how that would work for us, as we use our iPads for learning apps and for entertainment all the time. In general we have a policy of unlimited media. Blocking internet access altogether won't really work for our family, although we will certainly supervise it more closely now. Before he was introduced to porn it wasn't an issue as he doesn't usually go to websites other than Netflix or certain gaming sites which are fine. However it is as Miranda pointed out a game of whack-a-mole, since this particular incident occurred when we were asleep and thought he was too.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Havent looked into this yet. Ive heard of 'net nanny', but wonder if its out of date.

Does anyone use addblockplus? If you dont, you should. Its free and easily downloadable.

What i found, is that when watching online series/movies *without* addblockplus, you get instant soft porn all over the website!! But with addblockplus, none of that is there. I was shocked when i saw it, as i disabled addblockplus at one time.... never again.

When it comes to apple technology (ipad etc) i havent got a clue. I believe it may be less susceptible to these type of websites.

OP, was the porn on the ipad? I dont believe you can use addblockplus on ipads. 


Among other things, this needs to be a technical conversation, and as parents, we are required to keep up with the ever changing technology (like 'getting it off the computer', or 'net nanny', is sooo, 5 years ago)


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## MomWife (Feb 23, 2015)

lizajane30 said:


> I'm curious, do you have internet access completely blocked in your home? How does that work for you? I'm having trouble imagining how that would work for us, as we use our iPads for learning apps and for entertainment all the time. In general we have a policy of unlimited media. Blocking internet access altogether won't really work for our family, although we will certainly supervise it more closely now. Before he was introduced to porn it wasn't an issue as he doesn't usually go to websites other than Netflix or certain gaming sites which are fine. However it is as Miranda pointed out a game of whack-a-mole, since this particular incident occurred when we were asleep and thought he was too.


Liza Jane, this is not about ME. YOU are the one who came here telling us about your son having access to hardcore pornography in YOUR home. That is dangerous as you seem to be aware. If you really do want all access to be removed from your home, I would speak to a consultant who is an expert in computers. They can tell you what to do.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Really, its not just about the OP. Its about all of us, our kids, technology, and the times we live in.

Rather than hire an expert, you might have better luck googling ways to circumvent access to these websites. But even when you find a solution, it will change from one day to the next.

I think coming here to discuss it is also a great idea, although i wish i could be of more help. My son is also 9.

Its really scary.


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## lizajane30 (Mar 19, 2005)

MomWife said:


> Liza Jane, this is not about ME. YOU are the one who came here telling us about your son having access to hardcore pornography in YOUR home.


Jeez. Why are you so intent on attacking me? You advised me to "block it 100%" so I asked what that looks like for your family. I'm asking if you have a solution that would work for us, or whether you're saying you have no internet access at home. I'm not making this "about you."


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

http://www.techlicious.com/tip/how-to-block-porn-on-your-iphone-ipad-ipod-touch/

Seems they need access to itunes in order to access any material...unless they are using an app...


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## lizajane30 (Mar 19, 2005)

contactmaya said:


> http://www.techlicious.com/tip/how-to-block-porn-on-your-iphone-ipad-ipod-touch/
> 
> Seems they need access to itunes in order to access any material...unless they are using an app...


Thank you! I'll see what could help from the suggestions in the article.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

lizajane30 said:


> Jeez. Why are you so intent on attacking me? You advised me to "block it 100%" so I asked what that looks like for your family. I'm asking if you have a solution that would work for us, or whether you're saying you have no internet access at home. I'm not making this "about you."


Try not to take it personally. When people are shocked by something they fear, they look for ways to feel in control, to assure themselves it would never happen to them, and sometimes that includes blaming other people for their own misfortune. Liza Jane wants to believe that being a good parent will protect her children from access to porn, then if your kid has had exposure, you must be a horrible parent, kwim?

My kids are older. I wish I had something more to suggest as a resource.

Here is a video which I'd encourage you to watch, in case you think it might be helpful for your ds.






It's an Icelandic film about the issue of consent. It's intended for teens. It's funny, it's honest, it's sex-positive. It has some slightly graphic but non-gratuitous depictions of sex and intimacy. But it talks repeatedly and clearly about what real sex is about, about how it differs from porn. It's in Icelandic with English subtitles: I wish there were a dubbed version. But honestly, it's one of the best sex education resources I have ever seen, and the first 7 minutes are almost entirely about what porn gets wrong.

Sorry that's all I have right now. But maybe it's something.

Miranda


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## MomWife (Feb 23, 2015)

contactmaya said:


> Really, its not just about the OP. Its about all of us, our kids, technology, and the times we live in.
> 
> Rather than hire an expert, you might have better luck googling ways to circumvent access to these websites. But even when you find a solution, it will change from one day to the next.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. The solutions probably change by the day and it's constant cause for concern.

My children are both ten and they are telling me that all of their friends have phones with full internet access.....now to address that.


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## meowmix (Jul 14, 2005)

moominmamma said:


> \
> 
> My kids are older. I wish I had something more to suggest as a resource.
> 
> ...


Oh, wow. This video was hilarious and I loved it. What age did your kids see this video, Miranda?


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Such a wonderful video Mooninmama, thankyou! I think my 9yo might be a little young to watch it. I hope its still around in a couple of years. Im also interested to know how old your kids were when they saw this. I want my kids to see it *now*, just in case they may have been exposed to porn already. I dont think they have, but they have used the ipad alot, without restrictions,(because i was clueless).


I guess youtube could be a handy tool for sex education if such high standard videos can be found there. 

Youtube however, appears to be the source of illicit content, which is not straight forward to block. It appears there are different ways of circumventing site blockers, and frankly, it would be a pity to have to block youtube and facebook. (and the long list of other similar websites that crop of every couple of years)

So I guess its going to be a steep and ongoing learning curve to keep ahead of the game when it comes to blocking undesirable content.

I checked our ipad, (it was a gift, if I had bought it myself, i would have been more careful), and set restrictions on it according to the above mentioned article. I'm unclear as to whether those restrictions apply to everything. On the one had, the restriction setting supposedly blocks content, otoh, it appears the restriction doesnt block the internet. Movies? Sites? Apps? Its unclear to me.....

As for accessing other kids phones-OP, when do you think they have the opportunity to do this? On the school bus? On playdates? 

I wonder if the way to go is to warn all school parents that this is potentially happening right under their noses. I personally try to limit screens on playdates, otherwise I find the kids dont interact much. I cant see the phone issue happening at school....I can see this being more of an issue as kids get older and are on their own more-walking home from school etc.....


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I just took my own advice, and did a 'sex education' search on youtube.

95% of the search results were porn sites.....


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Back again-so the question remains in my mind, at what age should we be discussing this with kids? Is my 9yo too young to have this conversation (or see this youtube video), what about his 7yo brother? Both of them could easily be exposed.

Its not about sex education anymore, its about protection from pornography.

Interestingly, some people think that this should be discussed with children as young as 5, or, as soon as they can use the internet.....

Wow, thats pushing it. But i can see the reasoning.

An expert suggests.... "We don't talk about pornography, we do say to them if you see images of naked bodies and body parts then tell us. You start at a low level, it is about raising awareness that not everything that comes up on a computer screen should be there."

See..., i didnt think to have that talk when my kids started using screens.

Here's an article about it

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2013/may/20/pornography-risks-taught-children-five-parents

The comments on this article make an interesting read on the topic:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/may/24/talk-to-children-about-porn


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

"The average age of first exposure to pornography is 9 years old. It is not possible to fully protect children from exposure to pornography, but it is possible prepare children to talk about their exposure to pornography when it happens."

http://familyshare.com/how-can-i-protect-my-children-and-teens-from-pornography-exposure

There are some new ideas from this article-
http://www.kidspot.com.au/can-you-protect-your-kids-from-online-pornography/#!


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

I didn't discover the "Get a Yes" video until a couple of years ago. My middle kids were 14 and 16 at the time (my eldest had already moved away). I just remembered it thanks to this thread and showed it to my newly-12yo with no qualms. But she's a 12yo whose friends are all 14 and older and are all involved in relationships, and is the youngest of four kids. She's more like a 14-year-old in most respects.

Miranda


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## lizajane30 (Mar 19, 2005)

contactmaya said:


> As for accessing other kids phones-OP, when do you think they have the opportunity to do this? On the school bus? On playdates?
> 
> I wonder if the way to go is to warn all school parents that this is potentially happening right under their noses. I personally try to limit screens on playdates, otherwise I find the kids dont interact much. I cant see the phone issue happening at school....I can see this being more of an issue as kids get older and are on their own more-walking home from school etc.....


I'm the OP, and my kids don't have cell phones (or many friends who have them). My kids are homeschooled so exposure wouldn't happen on the bus or at recess. ;-) I wonder if you're meaning to ask MomWife who said her kids' friends had cell phones with internet access.

With the research I'm now doing (thanks all for some ideas of where to start) I'm finding that really the only way to restrict content on a mobile device is by using the "restrictions" setting, which as I said I can't remember the passcode for! and messing with the settings for safari and disallowing purchase of new apps. But even then it would need to be site by site, there's no way to simply restrict adult content. There are "safe" browsers but the interface is nowhere as user-friendly as safari or chrome. So again, you'd constantly have to update the restrictions as you or your kids found new websites with that content. Which is sort of not the point, right? I don't want to constantly be putting out fires, I want the fires not to start. I mean, it's not enough for me to be aware that my kid has found porn--I want him not to be able to find it in the first place! Maybe I'm asking too much??


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

Mine are 1 and 3 and i'm already worried about this! I agree that a big part of the answer at home is to take serious pains to ensure that there's no online activity without supervision. Call me a Luddite but my children will not be allowed a personal computer in their private space until they are at least 14. I also agree, though, that while it might be possible to reign it in a lot at home (and that does count for so much), it's the exposure while at school/friends/etc... that's difficult to deal with. My son hasn't even started kindergarten and i'm already thinking about advocating for a smart phone free elementary environment. I read one article where children as young as 7 were seeing hardcore porn at school. It's SO disturbing.

This isn't about religion for me either.

Mama, you're doing great. It's not you, it's society that needs to change.


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

Also, reading more of the posts, imo you can't control what they see on the internet by any means. All you might be able to control is whether or not they have access to the Internet at all. For me, that means absolutely no smart phone for a long, long time.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Viola P said:


> For me, that means absolutely no smart phone for a long, long time.


Yeah, maybe. But you know, there's an awful lot of safety and peace of mind that can come from your kid having a smartphone too. I have a 12-year-old who is doing more and more on her own and we're considering getting a smartphone for her for next fall. Her sister bought one at 15, and I have to say that the GPS mapping, Google Maps, integrated family calendars and contacts, quick and easy texting, the access to public transit routes and times, the fact that we can share files and documents between us when we're in different places, it all makes her more independent and safer.

My kids have had iPods from the age of 8 or 9. Not much difference, internet-wise, between an iPod and an iPhone. My kids have proven to be very trustworthy with their mobile devices from the very beginning.

It's hard to imagine when your children are still so little, but tweens and teens can be pretty sophisticated, and can have pretty good judgement. It's a brave new world out there, and our kids are going to be citizens of it sooner or later. I think that when parents restrict access to technology based on fear and distrust, they aren't helping their kids develop the tools they need to live in this new world. Kids need to learn the judgement and savvy to avoid suspect links, to know sensible privacy practices, to intuit the implications of new social media formats, to behave online with integrity and with an appreciation of the limits of the medium and to have manners pertaining to using a mobile device in public. Our kids need parents to guide them along the learning curve while they still have a strong influential role in the kids' lives. In other words, before they're 14!

Miranda


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

lizajane30 said:


> I'm the OP, and my kids don't have cell phones (or many friends who have them). My kids are homeschooled so exposure wouldn't happen on the bus or at recess. ;-) I wonder if you're meaning to ask MomWife who said her kids' friends had cell phones with internet access.
> 
> With the research I'm now doing (thanks all for some ideas of where to start) I'm finding that really the only way to restrict content on a mobile device is by using the "restrictions" setting, which as I said I can't remember the passcode for! and messing with the settings for safari and disallowing purchase of new apps. But even then it would need to be site by site, there's no way to simply restrict adult content. There are "safe" browsers but the interface is nowhere as user-friendly as safari or chrome. So again, you'd constantly have to update the restrictions as you or your kids found new websites with that content. Which is sort of not the point, right? I don't want to constantly be putting out fires, I want the fires not to start. I mean, it's not enough for me to be aware that my kid has found porn--I want him not to be able to find it in the first place! Maybe I'm asking too much??


I wonder how much homeschooling would make a difference in terms of exposure to other kids' iphones/tablets. I suspect that after classes/activities (if they do them in whatever form), this could be an opportunity. I think at age 9, there may be less of an opportunity of peer exposure this way, but once kids are more independent (my son walks to school on his own already, and if he were homeschooled, he would be walking to his said activity), then the risk is there. Its only a matter of time. I thought you mentioned your child had seen someone else's iphone, but maybe it was someone else.

As for restrictions-did you try using the passcode that you would use to open the device? On our ipad, it was the same passcode. I tried to change it, but couldnt....still a novice at all things ipad. I did manage to set the restrictions.

As for preventing the fires being set in the first place, no, you are not asking too much! There has to be a simple way to do this...but i dont think there is. I couldnt believe how much porn was on youtube, whose policy is anti porn.

I hope it isnt necessary to restrict access to youtube altogether, but it looks that way for now....

Havent read the other posts yet so sorry for any repetition....


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I was worried about the addictive nature of minecraft, angry birds and plethora of other games. Now i'm thinking-i would rather they were playing that than watching porn! Its ridiculous.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

I found this excellent article today:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...ucation-of-sierra-skye-gemma/article24220611/

Covers a lots of ground on "educating kids about porn."

Miranda


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## JWood (May 2, 2015)

This thread reminds me of when my son, who was 2 at the time, accidentally entered a hardcore porn site when he was pretending to type on my laptop... Not a great parenting moment for me, but I doubt he remembers that. 

Most of the more expensive anti-virus software can block porn sites and sites that you specify, both on home computers and mobile devices. I use an anti-virus which I believe is only available in Scandinavia that does this, but if I remember correctly, Norton offers this as well (I'm not a fan of Norton because it's quite intrusive when working on your computer, but it does a very good job). With this, I can also view what sites my kids visit, but I make sure my kids knows about this. 

I've talked about porn with my 11 year old, as I also want her to feel okay talking to me about these things, but not my two youngest. I'm not one of those that condemns porn completely though. I think that if you are an adult, and understand what goes into it, porn can be fun, for the parents that is :wink:


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

I used to be somewhat open to the idea of younger children having smartphone devices, until i read this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...day-By-ex-lads-mag-editor-MARTIN-DAUBNEY.html

I found it so disturbing that i decided not to take the chance. It's true that once my children are older, maybe tweens, i'll change my mind. But I'm pretty sure that so long as they aren't tweens and are young there will be no smart phone devices for them. I think the children have to be old enough to be able to process that information. I think planning on them not accessing the information is a mistake. So when i do give them a smartphone i will give it knowing that they will use it to access adult content at some point. It's like giving a two year old a plate of cookies and asking them not to eat one, or putting barriers around so that they can't get access to the cookies, eventually they will find a way to those cookies. That's my view of it anyway. I really don't want my 7 year olds knowing what a nugget is!


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## lauren (Nov 20, 2001)

A few thoughts to share that I don't think have been covered yet.

First, to the OP I am a little concerned about the relationship your son has with this older friend who first introduced him to porn. What do you know about this situation and was this a one time get together or do they have an ongoing relationship? Porn is often used during early phases of 'grooming' for sexual abuse or photos to be used of minors to sell to others, so this situation worries me.

Second, a thought I had about restricting, and we have used this idea with our older kids-- we tell our kids we will check their online 'history' at any time with no notice. If there is anything unacceptable they will lose access to the device. It is possible for the kid to clear the history. We just add in that if we see the history has been cleared (one could tell if there was only history on the device for the past few days instead of since the device was acquired) we will assume that there is something to hide and they will lose access. Does that make sense? We've only had to enforce it once so far. My son is now too old for us to enforce anything like that. Middle child knows the rule. Little one doesn't have unsupervised access yet (she is 10). 

Finally, I am one of the moderators. Please be all of you are treating one another with the utmost care and respect. Religious views are not to be assumed important to other members. Blame and accusation are not helpful. It takes courage to step out and ask for help on an online forum and everyone deserves to know they are safe here.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

lauren said:


> if we see the history has been cleared (one could tell if there was only history on the device for the past few days instead of since the device was acquired) we will assume that there is something to hide and they will lose access.


Just so others are aware ... there are many, many easy ways around this. Most popular browsers (Firefox, Safari, Internet Explorer, Chrome) allow you to use a private or incognito mode when browsing so that nothing gets recorded in history. Some browsers like Chrome allow one to selectively delete individual entries from the history log. Most browsers will allow you to delete just the last hour, creating a very unobtrusive gap in the history. And one of the simplest solutions of all is to use a separate browser (either an old version of a current browser or an alternate lightweight browser like Lynx or Midori) that is hidden away in a folder, and to use that for browsing that you don't want other computer users to be aware of.

Those are just the simple things most kids could easily figure out and quickly show each other how to do, even if they didn't have admin access to the computer they're using. I'm sure there are more complex solutions to do with proxy servers and plug-ins. It's that giant game of whack-a-mole again. As quickly as parents figure out how to stop one thing, another possibility presents itself.

Miranda


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## lauren (Nov 20, 2001)

moominmamma said:


> Just so others are aware ... there are many, many easy ways around this. Most popular browsers (Firefox, Safari, Internet Explorer, Chrome) allow you to use a private or incognito mode when browsing so that nothing gets recorded in history. Some browsers like Chrome allow one to selectively delete individual entries from the history log. Most browsers will allow you to delete just the last hour, creating a very unobtrusive gap in the history. And one of the simplest solutions of all is to use a separate browser (either an old version of a current browser or an alternate lightweight browser like Lynx or Midori) that is hidden away in a folder, and to use that for browsing that you don't want other computer users to be aware of.
> 
> Those are just the simple things most kids could easily figure out and quickly show each other how to do, even if they didn't have admin access to the computer they're using. I'm sure there are more complex solutions to do with proxy servers and plug-ins. It's that giant game of whack-a-mole again. As quickly as parents figure out how to stop one thing, another possibility presents itself.
> 
> Miranda


I do know that is true. If a child is that motivated to get to a work around, it seems there could be a bigger problem to solve and I'd wonder if they should have access to technology.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

My point was that basic incognito browsing is very simple in current browsers, requiring little motivation our knowledge to avoid creating a data trail. You can just use built-in functionality, requiring nothing more than an extra click out two in most browsers. Five or ten years ago more effort was required to cover one's tracks. Not so now.

Miranda


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

Thanks for pointing that out Miranda. I agree that there are ways around all of these controls. 

Do you have any views on the UK family filters? Do measures at that level work?


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Sorry, no idea. I have never used restrictions with my kids. My knowledge on private browsing comes from the opposite perspective: I need to be able to browse privately when shopping online for gifts for my kids, so it's a case of me hiding my browsing from my kids, not the other way around. 

Miranda


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Shocking article VoilaP thanks for the link.

Just adding to the last couple of points-there is a difference between children accessing porn by accident, and intentionally seeking it out. I wonder if those that intentionally seeking it out, are at an age where they could view Moonimama's Finnish youtube link which educates on the nature of porn and real life sexuality. (see above)

Or are the pre tween set (ages 5-9 say) capable of intentionally circumventing an adults wish to not view porn? This is scarier to me, because as a parent, I dont want to start talking about porn yet! I have read them /they have read, sex education books, and books on the dangers of sex abuse. (they are ages 3-9) But we have not talked about porn, which is my view, is a form of abuse if viewed without consent by a minor. That makes all porn popups to the underaged sex abuse in my view.

For the older kids, i think it is easier to deal with by way of education.

However, I dont want to make porn the forbidden fruit by banning it. Why do they want to watch it in the first place? Also, banning it, means that the kids/tweens/teens know what it is already! Doesnt that mean its too late?

I agree that there are ways of blocking these websites, but that same method wont work next year. And as mentioned, kids will get around it if they want. They are the digital natives. They know more about the ipad than i do. At the moment, I am not letting them use my laptop unless I am in the same room.

My own views of porn come into this I suppose. There is good and bad porn. There is soft tasteful adults films, (that I discovered watching TV after 10pm in France) and there is the crass/pen...s in the hole/c...um shot most US manufactured ultra boring porn, most of which is accessible on the internet. Then there is the hard core S and M porn, and beyond. That's a whole other chapter in sex education.

I am just wondering how effective these site blockers are- I have found porn to crop up on the most unexpected places- for eg, youtube, as well as movie sites (addblockplus seemed to block them)

When blocking porn sites, what else are they blocking? Are they blocking any website mentioning 'sex'? Are they blocking educational websites about sex and childbirth for eg? Sites that promote breastfeeding? Would MDC be blocked because of explicit words used on this site?
As for apple technology- how effective is the 'restriction' setting really?

How do you block it on facebook? Like it says in the ViolaP's link, those sites just pop up.

<<'On Facebook, you just scroll down and it's there. If any of your friends like it, it comes up on your home page.' >>
<<I find it dirty and disturbing,' said one 15-year-old boy. 'I try not to look at it, but people just keep sending it to each other. They email disgusting links to each other's mobile phones to shock.' >>
 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-mag-editor-MARTIN-DAUBNEY.html#ixzz3ZkhGGtr6


​
One of the links i posted above suggests just accepting that kids will be exposed at some point no matter what you do- if not on your phone, then on some kid's at a birthday party, or through facebook. When they are playing minecraft online with some other kid?

I dont see banning any of these devices as the answer either.

My thoughts are rambled sorry.

But i'm beginning to think that this should be covered for any child over 5 who is capable of using the internet/ipad.

We have a book called_ "I said NO!"_ It educates on how to prevent sex abuse, by identifying "Red Flags" in every day situations with every day people.

Maybe there is a book out there of this kind, which also covers the dangers of online porn? Or maybe it hasnt been written yet (...off to amazon guess)

Maybe the days are gone that we dont need to address these issues with younger kids. But what approach to take?

Perhaps its somewhat similar to answering a question like "Hey mom, what is rape, some kids were talking about it today but they wouldnt tell me what it means" (which i had to answer the other day)

Next question- "Hey mom, what is bestiality? What kind of babies would you get if a human had sex with a dog...." (my kids asked me similar questions!!! They didnt mention the word bestiality, not yet....)

We should still set restrictions and use site blockers too... but that is a game of cat and mouse in the long run.

Please convince me otherwise people with more experience!

Hell, the ipad only came out 5years ago.

Let me finish reading some of those links people have provided.

Later edited to add-just read the link VoilaP provided, and the author comes up with the same conclusion

<<We need to get tech-savvy, and as toe-curling as it seems, we are the first generation that will have to talk to our children about porn.>> 
​


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

lauren said:


> I do know that is true. If a child is that motivated to get to a work around, it seems there could be a bigger problem to solve and I'd wonder if they should have access to technology.


I dont agree. It just takes a bit of curiosity, and a bit of tech savy, and voila!

I really think this is a problem of our times, and a recent one, in which there are no apparent solutions yet.

How about the banning of pornography online? Maybe thats where we are headed.


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## Carla Halter (Nov 11, 2014)

This is why computers/ laptops are not allowed in my kids room. We placed our computers at the family area so every time the kids use it, we could monitor what they are doing.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

This?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/apps-...s--smartphones-but-should-they-220504844.html


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## MyFillingQuiver (Sep 7, 2009)

Remember that as the parent, you do what is right for YOUR family. It is difficult to go against the grain, but it does work.

I have an adult son, and I have teens and preteens. They are homeschooled, and we have a discussion about internet with parents of friends that they are going to spend time with. If the parents do not have control over their children's internet, they aren't spending time at their house. Plain and simple. Archaic? Perhaps. Since you can't easily undo what eyes see, we choose to protect them. It hasn't been much of an issue, as we are friends with mostly like-minded individuals, and for the homes where we aren't in agreement, the parents have agreed to take the wireless card from the computer, and completely respect our views. 

The friends that have devices just go unplugged for the visit, unless they have a strong filter, which a couple of them have, but many of the kids are homeschooled and don't own all the forms of access to the internet that they could potentially have.

At home, they have access to the internet on one computer, that is housed in the main area of the home where we all live. I hate it there because it is an eyesore there, but, it's about the kids. They can access for school, and they play games online, etc. We use NetNanny. We also use the family safety feature. We unlock sites they want to utilize, and I can temporarily unlock certain things that are blocked-like for educational research, etc.

They do not have Smart phones because we don't think children need them, nor do they need to have unfettered access to the internet. They do not carry around devices where we have to attempt to get attention while they are plugged in constantly. When my oldest began driving, we got him a "sorta smart phone" that he paid the minutes for off of Page Plus, and it had no internet access. He upgraded when he left home, and he is an adult and that's how it's supposed to work.

None of my children have suffered because they don't have unlimited access to phones, devices, etc. I have a semi-smart phone that can get internet access, but it's sort of a pain and slow, but thankfully, I am too busy to care that much about not being continually plugged in.

Since I can't fix society, and I don't see all the pornography dependent and addicted people willingly turning over the industry, I can only control what goes on in my home and protect and cultivate my own children here. 

It's all perspective. It's OK to parent with greater limitations. It's OK to parent the way that works for you. We know we are strict, and we are not the common example, and that's good with us. We have a greater responsibility to our children than we do to spending money and time on devices and risking precious developing brains and sexuality.


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## MyFillingQuiver (Sep 7, 2009)

I wanted to add that I don't believe for one second that my children won't be exposed to porn or movies we find objectionable, down the road when we don't "control" their every move. By the time our oldest was working and a later teen, I'm sure there were many opportunities (I'm not naive, nor am I delusional) but the point is, that from our parenting perspective, the exposure is less harmful when they have a solid foundation of what sexuality truly is, and the maturity to filter things on their own.

We all have our struggles and vices, but with the effects of porn at younger ages that goes very deep into the psyche; if we can prevent the one that warps how they view sex, that is a victory. If they encounter it with a greater maturity level, it will still sink in, but within a context of being able to better decipher what to do with that information and material.


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

@MFQ, i totally like your approach. I'm not religious and I don't homeschool, so i think we may be coming from different places (maybe not), but i am VERY concerned about the impacts of porn on young minds. I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and hope the problem goes away because i can't see it. I plan on being very proactive in this area, by which i mean not providing/allowing any devices that can surf the internet except for maybe one shared family computer. I really like your idea of putting it in the family room so that it can be easily monitored, i think i'll do that. I agree 100% that it's my job as a parent to protect my children and i can't just do nothing. Yesterday i went to a preschool program with my toddler and preschooler that's held in an elementary school. I asked them what their smart phone policy is and they indicated that some parents insist on sending their kids to school with smart phones so they can't ban it but the kids aren't allowed to take them out all day at school. It's something (at least they have a policy) but it's not enough. Imo in any elementary environment there should be a no smart phone policy. But these things are so controversial! I just don't want my 5 or 6 year old to be exposed to porn during recess because the school doesn't want to upset the parents of a bright 9 year old who sneaks his iphone out at lunch. This is such a difficult issue!


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

MFQ, your approach sounds reasonable to me. I think it is reasonable to request that playdate parents limit access to screens while in a playdate-its easy enough to turn off the computer. I personally put my laptop away on the shelf after use....

But does that work for older kids? It would work for my 9yo, but i dont know about several years from now. Im interested to hear from parents who have been that stage.

I also agree that kids dont need smart phones. It really depends on the plan you pay for. You can pay for a cheaper plan that doesnt have internet access. We use that for convenience, but i dont see the point in upgrading access for my kids...


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Viola P said:


> @MFQ, i totally like your approach. I'm not religious and I don't homeschool, so i think we may be coming from different places (maybe not), but i am VERY concerned about the impacts of porn on young minds. I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and hope the problem goes away because i can't see it. I plan on being very proactive in this area, by which i mean not providing/allowing any devices that can surf the internet except for maybe one shared family computer. I really like your idea of putting it in the family room so that it can be easily monitored, i think i'll do that. I agree 100% that it's my job as a parent to protect my children and i can't just do nothing. Yesterday i went to a preschool program with my toddler and preschooler that's held in an elementary school. I asked them what their smart phone policy is and they indicated that some parents insist on sending their kids to school with smart phones so they can't ban it but the kids aren't allowed to take them out all day at school. It's something (at least they have a policy) but it's not enough. Imo in any elementary environment there should be a no smart phone policy. But these things are so controversial! I just don't want my 5 or 6 year old to be exposed to porn during recess because the school doesn't want to upset the parents of a bright 9 year old who sneaks his iphone out at lunch. This is such a difficult issue!


At our school, phones stay in your backpack, and there would be no way kids could use them during recess. I dont worry about that at all.

I cant think of why preschoolers would need phones...


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

contactmaya said:


> You can pay for a cheaper plan that doesnt have internet access.


No, with a smartphone you can get a cheaper plan that doesn't include data, which means you can't access the internet _through the cellular network_. But in the smartphone will be perfectly capable of connecting to the internet over wifi. I don't know about where you live, but even in the under-tech-served rural mountains of Canada where I live wifi hotspots are _everywhere_. And iPod touches, the standard music player for tweens who don't have smartphones, also have this capability. Most homes, libraries, large businesses, cafés, schools, malls, community centres and so on have free wifi.

I travel away from home a lot, have a smartphone, have a cheap no-data plan, and I have used my phone for hundreds of hours of internet access.

Anyway, I think this thread is sometimes muddling up two fairly separate issues. There is the issue of kids, particularly very young kids, inadvertently opening a webpage that contains pornographic content. For that sort of situation plugins and apps like AdBlockPlus and NetNanny and content restrictions may be quite effective. On the other hand, keeping all internet use in public parts of your home, in high traffic areas, is not going to prevent inadvertent viewing, not unless you are sitting with your child okaying every mouse-click before he does it, and previewing the content of unfamiliar URLs before he looks at the screen.

The other issue is the one that started this thread: of kids covertly seeking out porn content. For this issue, keeping the computer in a public part of the house will help to an extent by making it less convenient for your child to view porn ... he'll have to do it with his buddy's iPod at the mall, or on Saturday morning while you're mowing the lawn and dad is in the shower, or when he gets up to pee at 2 a.m.. Content-restricting apps and plugins, checking history, these approaches are only going to make it a little more inconvenient ... sooner or later someone will tell him about a really simple workaround, or he will figure it out himself because he has a far more intuitive grasp of leading-edge technologies than you do.

My approach has been to accept that both scenarios (inadvertent and covert viewing) are possible, and to have conversations and ongoing dialogue about the internet and about sexuality that mitigate whatever harm might otherwise result.

I'd rather talk to my 6-year-old and explain that there are places on the internet full of things that are violent or sexual or mean ... pictures of naked people doing nasty things, of gore and violence, there are sites that want to make you believe things or buy things that are just horrible ... and so if you ever accidentally see anything like that, here's the Back button, make sure you know how to get to it quickly, and if you see anything that is weird or confusing to you, please talk to me about it. That way if what was a photography site last month turns out to have been hijacked and loaded with pictures of naked women, my kid will not sit there slack-jawed and stunned, his world rocked, wondering what the heck this is, he will just think "Oh yeah, there's that naked stuff mom warned me about" and click out.

I'd rather talk to my 13-year-old about the differences between various types of porn, and the differences between porn and real life, than pretend that I can stop him seeing any of it. (My favourite line, can't remember where I first heard it, is this one: "The difference between porn and real sex is like the difference between an action movie and ... Tuesday.")

I think that when we focus entirely on trying to block / restrict / prevent exposure, we're burying our heads in the sand and missing the necessity of harm mitigation -- and the importance of modelling clear, sensible, calm responses. I am not of the mind that "what is seen can never be unseen" when it comes to children. I think that if viewing a S&M porn image is emotionally traumatizing for a young child that is likely because he was completely blind-sided by the possibility that such an image could exist and -- more to the point -- because his parents reacted with such anxiety and horror that he absorbed their emotional overlay.

Here's an incident I remember, which I just asked my kids about. A few years ago I was watching my then-13-year-old son playing "Clonk," a fun little multi-player split-screen game on the computer with his little sister, then 6. It was really cool to see them sharing this interest, so I was enjoying the moment. He was showing her how to download additional user-generated levels for the game, and the URL that opened had a sidebar ad which was a still image of a sex act. Little dd clearly saw the image: I saw her forehead wrinkle up with a "huh?" kind of look. Without changing his tone of voice ds casually said "whoops, stupid porn, sorry" and clicked off the page.

And here's the thing: my dd, now 12, has absolutely no memory of that incident. It was indeed "unseen." My ds (18) doesn't remember it either, even though at the time he knew I was watching and had shot me an apologetic look. Neither of them was horrified or embarrassed or traumatized.

I think it's essential to teach our kids healthy attitudes and behaviours when it comes to mature content on the internet, not just live in denial, believing we can prevent all exposure. I would far rather my kids deal with their first exposures to mature content in an environment that has laid a foundation of support, teaching and ongoing dialogue, than covertly in the rec rooms of friends' houses or on the back of the school bus where someone is sharing screen-shots from their iPod, where they have only friends the expectation of teen bravado to fall back on to process the experience.

Miranda


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## MyFillingQuiver (Sep 7, 2009)

I think it is a big misconception that utilizing as many safety nets as possible, with porn/media, in order to prevent inappropriate content means there have not been conversations, openness and education about the subject, and how to handle it if it does.

Every parent has to handle this the way they see fit. I have an _extremely _ open dialogue and relationship with my children on subjects like these, from quite a young age. I'm very confident they will be able to handle whatever exposure that may occur. I still feel a very strong responsibility to minimize that chance, and as a hands on parent, I am committed to working to prevent viewing of material that can be incredibly toxic to budding/pre sexuality.

We just all have different parenting approaches to these topics that are new issues for our parenting generation. Pornography has been available for a very long time, yet to have it such a saturated part of our society (I believe most TV and popular movies incorporate soft porn as much as possible) and so readily available to anyone of any age, is a new dilemma.

If young children are unable to see things like this, or the beginnings of things like this (such as movies that have garbage) their natural and healthy curiousity regarding sexuality can be cultivated and understood better without being distorted.

However, we are a pretty unplugged family, and don't accept that we have to participate in things that we are uncomfortable with to raise solid, compassionate, smart and responsible young people. So far, we've been blessed with this approach.

I hope all of you find the best solution for your family dynamic and convictions


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

MyFillingQuiver said:


> I think it is a big misconception that utilizing as many safety nets as possible, with porn/media, in order to prevent inappropriate content means there have not been conversations, openness and education about the subject, and how to handle it if it does.


I didn't say it did. I only said that *when* a parent's approach is based entirely on restricting, supervising and blocking, something is missing, and that if that other piece is in place, fleeting exposures are very unlikely to cause significant harm.

We don't have the option of being unplugged (schooling and work taking place in part on-line by necessity), nor would any of us want to be. We love the intellectual, creative, educational and relationship options the internet has opened up for us in our fairly remote and isolated situation. So my kids now have a fair bit of completely unsupervised access and they manage their own blocking software. They've grown into savvy and responsible cyber-citizens, so it has worked for us. Obviously there are many paths...

Miranda


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

MyFillingQuiver said:


> we have a discussion about internet with parents of friends that they are going to spend time with.


I think this is a really good point.

I haven't added to this conversation because this wasn't a big issue here. I don't know why -- because I only have girls? Because they were interested in REAL information about sex and reproduction rather than porn? I don't know, but I do feel like I got off easy.

None the less, speaking frankly yet respectfully with other parents is really important. Because we weren't having issues, we were pretty lax about things (4 years ago, it was much easier to keep tabs on things that it is now). One time when my younger DD was in middle school, she had a bunch of friends over. One of the girls spent most of the time on Facebook, which I found odd and rude. None the less, I didn't put a stop to it because I didn't have any reason to. Weeks later, her guardian and I having coffee together and she mentioned that the girl wasn't allowed to access Facebook because she was obsessive and destructive with it. I didn't have any idea, and if I had, I would have ensured that the rules she had at home were upheld in my house.

Different families have different rules for movies and ratings, and different families have different rules for internet access. I think its important to be clear (while being respectful). Kids who are not allowed certain things at home can actually really seek those things out when they have access to them.


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