# 7yo boys: issues with food/eating/control. Please advise!



## DoomaYula (Aug 22, 2006)

My 7yo twin boys are hungry and will only eat a few things (cold cereal; fruit; tacos; pbj sandwiches; green beans).

If they do not like what I make them, they will sneak into the fridge -- without permission! -- and gorge on fruit or cheese sticks or bread, whatever they can get their hands on while I'm in the shower or bathroom!

If we go to someone's house, they will go into that person's fridge or looking for food in their cabinets. They will also eat off the floor in a restaurant.

I am really worried, sad -- EMBARRASSED! My children are sneaking food, eating off floors, and begging! -- and need some advice.

To address some issues:

1. I cook very kid-friendly meals. My own palate is very bland -- not a lot of spices or salt -- and I make a lot of chicken and beef meals with rice and vegetables. Chicken pot pie; lasagna; english-muffin pizzas; broccoli/cheese quiche.

2. I have told them repeatedly that I do not want them in the fridge without permission, or eating without permission. I make them three meals per day, with a snack in between each meal. The snack is usually fruit or crackers with peanut butter or a cheese stick or popcorn. However, if I turn my back, they are in the kitchen sneaking food. Today one of my boys put an apple in his pants to hide it from me.

3. They are clearly hungry. Today my boys did not eat breakfast (by their choice; it was oatmeal with honey and brown sugar, and bacon). We went for lunch at Chick-Fil-A and one of them was actually eating food off the floor when he was finished with his lunch.

4. I am at my wits' end over this. I am tired of fighting over food, but I think it's important that they eat a variety of foods, incorporating lots of colors and textures. I realize I cannot force them to eat, but neither can I have them eating off the floor, or begging people for food -- they also did that at Chick-Fil-A, when they were done eating and one of their friends was still eating his lunch.

Please advise. Every meal is becoming a battleground and I hate it.


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## treegardner (May 28, 2009)

Could it be that you are underestimating your sons' palates? I was a very picky eater as a child and realized as I got older I was only that way because my parents had labeled me as such.


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## DoomaYula (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treegardner* 
Could it be that you are underestimating your sons' palates? I was a very picky eater as a child and realized as I got older I was only that way because my parents had labeled me as such.

I post that my kids are _eating off the floor_, going into strangers' fridges, and sneaking fruit into their clothes and the answer is that it's because I'm labeling them?










I am posting here after months of making various meals only to have them refuse to take even one bite and then gorge themselves on contraband snacks when I turn my back.

No, I do not think I am underestimating their palates.


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## Bebegim (Jan 9, 2010)

oh man, I cannot imagine. I wish I could offer you some great advice! But Im the lost mother of a 3 yr old. So, all I can offer is a hug! And a big encouragement!! Maybe they are just sneaking into the fridge because they aren't supposed to? I use to do everything if my parents asked me not to. What if you had a basket in the pantry or kitchen (or a special drawer) where there were a bunch of acceptable snacks for them to get whenever they wanted. Or an allowance of 3 per day. They might feel like they were more "in charge"?

My daughter always wanted to play with dangerous kitchen things while I was cooking. So, I gave her a drawer and filled it with all non-dangerous items: whisk, wooden spoon, ice cream scoop, etc. Now she is so happy to be in there and "help" without almost hurting herself.

I hope some of the mommies on here have great ideas for you!!!!


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Why don't you want them going into the fridge without your permission? It doesn't sound like you're keeping lots of junk in there. So what's wrong with taking an apple or some cheese?

I would read: Feeding with Love and Good Sense by Ellyn Satter. Her basic message is: Your job is to provide healthy food. Their job is to eat it. Too much control over food leads to battles that you will never win.

Because of that, I would suggest that you relax your rules. There are several possibilties:
There seems to be a late winter growth spurt that a lot of kids go through (at the bus stop, everyone's pants are too short these days). They may be truly hungry.
They may also need more control over when they eat. This is a power struggle that your family has gotten into. Does it need to be one?

We fix lunch and dinner for our kids, but our kids largely decide on lunch. They're completely free to choose their own snacks. The only time I object is when it's 20 minutes or so until dinner.

I would give them a shelf in a cupboard that they can reach and a spot in the fridge. Tell them they can eat what they want from there as long as they clean up after themselves and it's less than 30 minutes or so before the next meal.


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## elisheva (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 

I would give them a shelf in a cupboard that they can reach and a spot in the fridge. Tell them they can eat what they want from there as long as they clean up after themselves and it's less than 30 minutes or so before the next meal.











I pretty much let my kids eat what they want when they want (within reason).

In the list of foods you gave, almost everything is healthy! If they want to make themselves PB&J every night because they don't like what you've made, what's wrong with that? They would likely get sick of it after a while and since they like fruit, green beans, tacos, and cereal, they likely won't suffer from malnutrition any time soon.

As far as eating from the floor...yes, it's gross and yes, I would also be embarrassed. Is it possible they are doing this for a reaction from you? Can you go "oh gross" in a bored tone of voice and look away?

ETA: Can you involve them in menu planning? Obviously you aren't going to make tacos every night for dinner because it sounds like you wouldn't like that, but what if you agree to make them once or twice a week? Can they help you figure out some other things to make that they will eat (chicken schnitzle with green beans, maybe - you said they ate at Chik-Fil-A...)?


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## mum21andtwins (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomaYula* 
I post that my kids are _eating off the floor_, going into strangers' fridges, and sneaking fruit into their clothes and the answer is that it's because I'm labeling them?










I am posting here after months of making various meals only to have them refuse to take even one bite and then gorge themselves on contraband snacks when I turn my back.

No, I do not think I am underestimating their palates.

Well in your op you state your food is bland, all 3 of my boys *love* peppery spicey foods. I don't understand why you got irritated by someone trying to offer a different perspective?

Maybe you need to let go of all the colours and textures and all the stuff the books tell you and listen to you boys. have a family meeting and put a stack of cookingbooks on the table (go to the library to get a wide variety of foods if you need to) then go trough the books together marking the pages of recipes they find apealing and take it from there. I think at 7 they are more than capable to tell you there likes and dislikes and giving them power over their food might make them more willing to try different things and broaden their foodlikes. also remember that their palates will change quite a lot troughout childhood so if they don't like tomatoes now don't label them as "he doesn't like tomatoes" say he doesn't like tomatoes yet or now. By saying he doesn't like tomatoes you shut the door to them ever liking tomatoes, its much better to say not yet or not now.

Also I wonder if your list in the OP is accurate? don't they like potatoes? what about soup? you can get a lot of veg in soup. spagetti? macncheese even?


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## StoriesInTheSoil (May 8, 2008)

I think that maybe telling them that they can snack whenever they want but please don't hide food in their rooms (that can become a whole other issue stemming from this) and seeing how they would naturally go about eating would maybe help you out. Maybe they aren't hungry at designated mealtimes? Personally, I hate eating within about an hour or so of getting up but when I get hungry I then need to eat ASAP. I also eat my lunch and dinner fairly close together and like to snack later in the night as well. That is just my natural pattern.








This too shall pass, mama.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

What I do with my kids, is make 3 meals and then they can snack as they wish. Breakfast is almost always what they choose. Lunch usually is, but if we have something that needs eaten, I'll go ahead and make that. Now dinner is a bit harder. Neither can have dairy and neither like all the same stuff. So I have them help with meal planning. We always do pizza on Friday because they love it and it gives me a break from worrying about how much they're eating. Other nights are different. DS2 loves sloppy joes, so we have about once a month. DS1 doesn't. He loves panini's, so again, about once a month. I do make sure there is something on the table that each kid likes even if he doesn't like the main meal. Fruit, vegetables, whatever.

There is some junk food in our house but my kids have learned they must ask before they have chips or cookies or candy. Anything else is a free for all. I honestly don't care if they have 3 apples in one day.

What I would do, is get rid of some of the food they're taking. Let them snack some more on things you think are appropriate and let them have some control over what's served. I know mine are more likely to eat something they don't love since they know their turn is coming.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

May I gently ask why you are so strict about food? What you are doing obviously isn't working so why continue down the same path?

Quote:

I have told them repeatedly that I do not want them in the fridge without permission, or eating without permission. I make them three meals per day, with a snack in between each meal. The snack is usually fruit or crackers with peanut butter or a cheese stick or popcorn. However, if I turn my back, they are in the kitchen sneaking food. Today one of my boys put an apple in his pants to hide it from me.
The above sounds so controlling to me. Why can't your son have an apple? Why does he have to sneak it and hide it from you? I mean-it's an APPLE. I would be encouraging him to eat an apple and enjoy it.

I guess I just don't understand where this need for such strict control over what your sons eat is coming from. And, I have to wonder if the other issues (begging for food, eating off of the floor, etc) is a direct result of your attitude towards what they can and can not eat.


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## amnesiac (Dec 28, 2001)

How frustrating - hang in there mama.









My twin boys actually have a much more adventurous palate than I do (they really don't often prefer typical "kid food") & one of them in particular requires much more caloric intake than people generally realize. So I would wonder if perhaps they're just truly at a point where they just need more food than one might think to fuel their growth? Also, it seems like kids crave certain things when they really need more of some nutrient in that food so maybe that's a possibility why they're sneaking certain foods?

Maybe snacking would slow down if they felt like they had more control over mealtimes too. Like previous posters mentioned, I would also probably try to involve them in meal planning, grocery shopping & cooking. Even if that means I cook dinner for dh & myself & the kids made their own once in a while I would be cool with that. Maybe there are food choices at the store they aren't aware of that they might enjoy. So perhaps a trip to an awesome store after perusing some cookbooks would be productive.

My general approach to eating is that everyone has input, I don't buy anything I don't want them eating, I let them know that what I've bought is all there is for the week.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
May I gently ask why you are so strict about food? What you are doing obviously isn't working so why continue down the same path?

The above sounds so controlling to me. Why can't your son have an apple? Why does he have to sneak it and hide it from you? I mean-it's an APPLE. I would be encouraging him to eat an apple and enjoy it.

I guess I just don't understand where this need for such strict control over what your sons eat is coming from. And, I have to wonder if the other issues (begging for food, eating off of the floor, etc) is a direct result of your attitude towards what they can and can not eat.

I have to agree with Betsy.

Don't have the junk in the house. If you are worried about them "spoling" their diner -- eating with in a half hour let them know you will be starting diner and they have to wait......also sometimes growth spurts happen. Last My 9 year old at a bake potato with cheese on top 45min before diner. At dinner time she ate a salad, 2 servings of green beens, and 2 servings of meat. She does not always eat this way but she was starved.

If your child was eating off the floor, he was needing more food our in a control battle with you.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

if you tell them not to, they will just do it more. why not make a "yes" shelf in the fridge and let them eat from it whatever they want, whenever they want? i cant imagine being so controlling over what and when my kids eat that they felt they had to hide fruit in their pants.


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## mrsfatty (Dec 21, 2004)

There's a great book, "Just take a bite" that has been super helpful for me--and it was recommended my my son's OT (he's being treated for SPD, and we start speech/feeding therapy soon).


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

As gently as I can say this: If you are rationing apples, they are not the ones with the problem.


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
As gently as I can say this: If you are rationing apples, they are not the ones with the problem.


I agree. I say relax your rules a bit, let them eat when and what they want, so that they are in control of their own bodies. I think this problem will disappear. There's no reason they can't control their own intake at 7 years old.


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## my_baby_love (Jan 15, 2006)

Would it help if you involved them in the meal planning process? Let them sit down with cookbooks (especially if they include pictures of the food so they can visualize what it will look like when it is prepared) and decide what to make for a few of the week's meals. Also allow them to help plan their snacks for the week. Then have them make lists, go grocery shopping with you and prepare the meals and snacks. My three year old helps me make almost every meal, and there are a few he could probably make completely by himself if I would let him use the stove without supervision (I don't!). He also picks out almost all his own snacks at the store, within my limits for healthy food. I allow him to taste as we cook and be as involved as possible, because I want him to learn about food, how to prepare it, and how to be healthy in his choices.

Also, if I/we make something and he chooses not to eat it then we don't have a battle over it. It is not worth it because you cannot force them to eat. I remind him that this is the meal (I refuse to make more than one meal for the family and I do my best to make sure it is something everyone will like) and if he is hungry then he needs to eat with us. If he still chooses not to then he is allowed to be done. He does not get another meal prepared later, but he is allowed to choose a healthy snack (crackers and cheese, fruit, bread, etc.) if he decides he is hungry after the meal is over.

I hope you find something that works for you!


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

If you make food an issue by trying to control what your kids eat, they will develop issues about food. Some one already said it but your responsibility is to make good food available and your children's responsibility to eat what they want. My 4 year old has access to the refrigerator and the food in the cabinets and has since she was 2. So what if she drinks all of the veggie juice or eats garbanzo beans and grapes instead of having dinner, she's still getting appropriate nutrients. Though she usually does eat the food we have at meals and loves sitting at the table with everyone. We also let her help cook, which helps increase her interest in dinner. When we made vegetable soup the other night she put everything in the pot, including the spices, and stirred before we put it on the stove.

Just the idea that food in your house can be thought of as contraband is enough to give a person food issues. If no foods were denied then your kids wouldn't need to sneak. Research has shown that even toddlers eat a balanced diet if allowed to self regulate.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

I agree with all the pps that you need to relax. I am pretty lax about food, and my kids seem to eat pretty well on their own. Our rules are:

1. Eat in the kitchen or at the table or outside.

2. If it's an hour before dinner, they can only eat the veggies I'm cutting up to put in the salad.

3. If I ask you not to eat something because I'm saving it for a recipe, don't.

That's all. I don't keep much junk in the house because _I_ will eat it all, so they have free rein.


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## sgmom (Mar 5, 2009)

I agree with the PP's. Keeping a healthy selection of foods in the fridge, and setting a rule that they are not allowed to snack within a certain amount of time before meals are served, isn't really a big deal at all.

Also, getting them to help you with the dinner process might help. Give them choices of what they want for dinner (ask them to select from A, B, or C. Do not ask "what do you want for dinner tonight"), then ask them to help you prepare it.

As for the restaurant problem (ew!), I would offer them a healthy snack to carry in with them while they wait for their meals to arrive. An apple, some raisins, veggie sticks (with dip), etc. And if they seem to be still hungry after dinner, then order a larger plate for them to take home.

I also feel that it's important to allow them to have the junk they want, once and a while. Allow them the freedom to feed (and control) their cravings (in healthy amounts) so they don't start sneaking through your friends cupboards looking for the stuff they're never allowed to have at home.

Growing boys often require much more calories than girls so unless they're gaining a lot of weight or making unhealthy choices, I really wouldn't worry about it at all.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

This is such a hard and confusing issue. I have daily food struggles with my kids also, but interestingly enough, they don't sneak food. In fact, that's kind of the problem, if they just ate the food they had access to, I'd be OK with that. There is plenty of food here they could eat, but instead they tell me how they hate all the foods I make and all the foods I have in the house, and ask for things we don't have, like potato chips. And when they tell me they are hungry, it kind of sets me off a bit, I have to say. I walk in the door at 9 o'clock at night and get the "I'm hungryyyyyyyyy" thing, and know they very well could be hungry since they didn't eat the dinner I made, yet I know there is food here they could have eaten and didn't. I also know that when I offer it they won't eat it, because they want some fantastical delicious thing they think I might somehow have, or they'll even think I'll take them to a restaurant. For a long time if they wanted something to eat that we didn't have, they'd insist I go to the store, or bug me for days to buy it.

But when I get home and they say they are hungry, I go through the motions, offering them a banana, an apple, a piece of cheese and they reject it all. So many times they've gone to bed crying they are hungry, but not wanting any food we have, or they'd finally settle and eat a bowl of cereal. And then sometimes they'll want to eat bananas or apples, but they insist on coming to me and asking me first, even my 10 year old. It's kind of odd.

So, I don't know, I know that children are different. I think eating food from the fridge, like apples and cheese when they don't like the dinner, is typical behavior although frustrating because you are making them healthy meals they are rejecting. I think eating food off the floor and sneaking food from the homes of other people could be indicative of a hungry child, but could also very well be something else. Are there other issues with them that might make you think this is indicative of a larger problem?


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

I know we will be semi strict with our LO when the time comes and we hit that stage just because I know how I am and how DH is.

I think having a shelf in the fridge with snacks that they can grab at free will is ok unless they eat it all up right away. Its important to teach food control but doing it in a healthy manner. Making things like junk foods and food of that nature taboo can end up being dangerous in the long run.
When I had kids over whether babysitting or they were here with their parents. I always had a spot that was full of string cheese and such and they were able to go in there to grab them as they pleased.

There is a difference between boredom hunger and real hunger and its harder to determine with kids but it is something to address. Are they saying they are hungry due to being bored and so on.

As for the eating off the floor no clue how to address that one. That one could be a boy/kid issue so no clue on that.

I don't think you are all that strict when it comes to the food, I would suggest maybe experimenting with spices and such and see how that works.


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## elisheva (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *new2this* 
Its important to teach food control but doing it in a healthy manner.

This.is.just.wrong.

People who think they need to control someone else's food intake are just asking for problems/conflict. Kids need to learn to listen to their own bodies' signals. They do this through trial and error and it's your job as the parent to provide healthy food for this learning.

I have an eating disorder because my mother tried to teach me "food control". Don't do this to your children.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:

There is a difference between boredom hunger and real hunger and its harder to determine with kids but it is something to address. Are they saying they are hungry due to being bored and so on.
When a child is getting in trouble for "sneaking" an apple there is way more going on than boredom hunger. The OP needs to look at her own motivations because I think it is directly responsible for how her sons are behaving.

Kids should have healthy food available to them. To control food to this point-where the kids aren't allowed to get food from the fridge? Not healthy.


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elisheva* 
This.is.just.wrong.

People who think they need to control someone else's food intake are just asking for problems/conflict. Kids need to learn to listen to their own bodies' signals. They do this through trial and error and it's your job as the parent to provide healthy food for this learning.

I have an eating disorder because my mother tried to teach me "food control". Don't do this to your children.

You might think its wrong but like I said doing so in a healthy manner. My job as a parent when that time comes is not letting my kid eat whatever they want healthy or not or whenever they want.

I have had my own issues with food as well.


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## elisheva (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *new2this* 
You might think its wrong but like I said doing so in a healthy manner. My job as a parent when that time comes is not letting my kid eat whatever they want healthy or not or whenever they want.

I have had my own issues with food as well.

Why shouldn't they eat whenever they want? If I want an apple and someone tells me 'no' because I must be eating out of boredom, you better believe I'm going to find a way to eat that apple anyway - most likely while hiding from the other person.


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## Kreeblim (Dec 19, 2009)

We had problems with hoarding and hiding food wrappers about a year ago. In our house, we HAD to restrict some items and could not just buy items that are only OK. For instance, there are some foods for the 18 month old that are expensive, but we had to have them on hand for his food issues and we could not buy enough for us all to have at will. We also have many outside activities where the kids are required to have non-refridgerated lunches, so we would have shelf-stable milk boxes and other convenience items for the lunches that we simply could not afford to eat all day while we were home. This led DIRECTLY to the elder kids sneaking these items and then hiding the wrappers or hoarding them for later. We decided we HAD to change our approach and these are some of the things that worked for us...it's just not an issue anymore:

1) We let the kids pick out their own pack of sugarless gum, which they can have AT WILL through the day (as long as they put it in the trash when done). They know they only get a new one when we go to the store, so at first they would chew all of it in like a day and then go without. Now they carefully ration their gum all on their own...they taught themselves to chew in moderation while killing some of the boredom eating.

2) We explained (honestly) that we don't have the money for tons of milk boxes, and if they kept sneaking them then we wouldn't have any for their lunches on music school day. We also stopped saying "No, you can't have a milk box." and started saying "Those are only for music school day, remember? But I can help you get a cup of milk from the fridge if you want."

3) We tell them what's off limits and why. They generally understand why now that we explain it.

4) Sometimes we re-direct the kids to carrots or apples or rice snacks or yogurt when they ask if we can make something like brownies or whatever. They will walk off happy with their yogurt, whereas a flat out "no" would have them sneaking the brownie mix into their room so they can eat the powder as soon as I was out of the kitchen for a second.

5) The kids are now free to eat freely from most of the food in the house. At first they ate ALARMINGLY weirdly...like my 5 year old had (no joke) 7 apples in one day, between all the regular food he ate. Apples are available all day, at all times and I just kept re-stocking. It never hurt him at all, he is super healthy and things have normalised now. There will still be days where he seems to be snacking ALL DAY LONG, but it's not every day, and he is on the low end of healthy weight for his height so I don't stress over it. If anything it has shown me that his body must actually need all the food he eats since he's obviousely not storing it anywhere









Anyway, good luck, and I TOTALLY understand the frustration, but I agree with most of the PPs that relaxing the rules might work better than coming up with new ones. It did for us at least.


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## sewingmommy (Apr 21, 2007)

My oldest will be 7 in a couple weeks and is like this ....however I do not control his food intake ...if he wants food he gets it ....its healthy but I refuse to make my kid go hungry and control his food .....I just don't see the advantage to scheduling a growing kid to a food schedule


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## sewingmommy (Apr 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elisheva* 
This.is.just.wrong.

People who think they need to control someone else's food intake are just asking for problems/conflict. Kids need to learn to listen to their own bodies' signals. They do this through trial and error and it's your job as the parent to provide healthy food for this learning.

I have an eating disorder because my mother tried to teach me "food control". Don't do this to your children.

I so agree with this ...you can't know how much food a child needs ...especially if they are so hungry they start sneaking healthy food


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## lonegirl (Oct 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomaYula* 
3. *They are clearly hungry*. Today my boys did not eat breakfast (by their choice; it was oatmeal with honey and brown sugar, and bacon). We went for lunch at Chick-Fil-A and one of them was actually eating food off the floor when he was finished with his lunch.

4. I am at my wits' end over this. I am tired of fighting over food, but I think it's important that they eat a variety of foods, incorporating lots of colors and textures. I realize I cannot force them to eat, but neither can I have them eating off the floor, or begging people for food -- they also did that at Chick-Fil-A, when they were done eating and one of their friends was still eating his lunch.

Please advise. Every meal is becoming a battleground and I hate it.

Maybe they need more for a snack than just some fruit or crackers. Why is the fridge so strictly off limits? I am happy that my son (3) can go to the fridge and get himself a yogurt or some fruit....I stock only healthy food so I know if he is going to grab something it will be a healthy choice.

I would trust their opinion of hunger (they aren't allowed to eat without permission??) I'm sorry I find it very, very sad that they have to hide an apple from you....if they are hungry they may need more food and you may need to ease up a bit on the rules.

They may need more variety....I know that most "kid friendly" foods my son dislikes. Chicken fingers-he would rather roasted/grilled chicken, Sloppy Joes -ick, Grilled cheese with processed cheese-he asks for the other cheese (meaning real cheddar)

Macaroni -he loves it when I make a modified boxed version with a jar of butternut squash and a handful of shredded cheddar
If they love tacos (assuming you make them from scratch) add a jr baby food jar of carrots and squash to bulk up the veggies and let it simmer a bit longer to thicken.
I make Pad-Thai and Indian foods, Italian, Greek, Pappadums, Hummus...all things you wouldn't find on a typical kid menu....and he loves it.

They are 7 ask them what they would like to eat, let them help plan the menu. I ask my son....if it is something reasonable I will try and make it.

I wish you luck.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *new2this* 
You might think its wrong but like I said doing so in a healthy manner. My job as a parent when that time comes is not letting my kid eat whatever they want healthy or not or whenever they want.

I have had my own issues with food as well.

I understand part of your point being that routine is important, including meal times. I don't get the issue though with food in general???? How do you know that your child truly isn't hungry? There's a big difference between setting up a schedule and setting yourself up for some major drama when it comes to eating habits.
OP, I think one PP said it best when she said that what you are doing clearly isn't working. I agree with a lot of the suggestions you've been given, especially the go to shelves in the fridge and pantry. I feel sad that your son had to sneak an apple. Does that really seem right to you? Consider putting yourself in their shoes for a second. How would that feel if you had no control over what you could eat and when you could eat it. You were at the mercy of a governing figure who decided what your meals would be and when you would get them...oh and you're hungry? Too bad. You'll wait until I give you your next meal or snack. Your children are probably feeling really powerless right now, and when children feel powerless they act out ( like eating food off the floor and begging from other people). You need to take a look at your own policies and see where you can institute some compromises. Seeking the aid of a counselor might be adviseable at this point as well.


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## Grace and Granola (Oct 15, 2005)

well said


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## 3*is*magic (Sep 13, 2007)

I am a little surprised by the responses to the OP. She is making her kids kid friendly meals that (I am assuming) they LIKE but are refusing to eat and then gorging themselves on snacks, and everyone thinks she's being uptight? I would have a real issue with my kids _refusing_ to eat breakfast or other meals and then expecting to gorge on snacks - even healthy ones - an hour later. It's a waste of food and snack foods like cheese sticks are _expensive_. I would be appalled by my kids refusing to eat meals that I have prepared and then eating off the floor in a restaurant. It doesn't sound to me that the OP is being controlling of food - she is offering three healthy meals and 2 snacks per day that her kids are _refusing to eat_ and then raiding the fridge when she's not around. In her position I, too, would tell them the fridge and pantry are off limits. I'd have a bowl of fruit that they could help themselves to at any time, but that would be it. I don't go to the effort of making meals only to thrown them away. Not hungry when I make you lunch? Fine. Your grill cheese sandwich/bowl of soup/mac&cheese will be right here waiting for you when you _are_ hungry.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3*is*magic* 
I am a little surprised by the responses to the OP. She is making her kids kid friendly meals that (I am assuming) they LIKE but are refusing to eat and then gorging themselves on snacks, and everyone thinks she's being uptight? I would have a real issue with my kids _refusing_ to eat breakfast or other meals and then expecting to gorge on snacks - even healthy ones - an hour later. It's a waste of food and snack foods like cheese sticks are _expensive_. I would be appalled by my kids refusing to eat meals that I have prepared and then eating off the floor in a restaurant. It doesn't sound to me that the OP is being controlling of food - she is offering three healthy meals and 2 snacks per day that her kids are _refusing to eat_ and then raiding the fridge when she's not around. In her position I, too, would tell them the fridge and pantry are off limits. *I'd have a bowl of fruit that they could help themselves to at any time, but that would be it.* I don't go to the effort of making meals only to thrown them away. Not hungry when I make you lunch? Fine. Your grill cheese sandwich/bowl of soup/mac&cheese will be right here waiting for you when you _are_ hungry.


She pegged her son because he wanted an apple. I understand the wanting your kid to eat thir meal,but obviously some part of their routine and household rules are NOT working. If you have things clamped so tight that a child has to try to hide an apple down their pants, I see that as a problem. If your kids are eating food off the floor and begging others for their food, I see that as a problem as well. If the OP doesn't want to have a free shelf for healthy snacks, then she at least needs to make some compromise as far as food being served at meals. Just because we all consider the food to be kid friendly doesn't mean the kids like it. I had a friend whose son insisted on eating sardines for breakfast every morning. She could have insisted on oatmeal and bacon and the child would have been very hungry by lunch time.At some point you have to deicde which hill you're going to die on as a parent, mine certainly wouldn't be over an apple, and if the OP wants to halt the undesireable behavior of "food stealing" and begging, then she needs to change her reactions and behaviors and really find out what the cause of their behavior is. That means she's going to have to have some open communication with them and display a willingness to compromise a bit.


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## NellieKatz (Jun 19, 2009)

I agree with many of the posts....too much control over food is going to lead to trouble. Wytchywoman made a lot of sense. It would be frustrating and infuriating to have someone standing between me and food if I were hungry. And it would feel nonsensical and arbitrary.

We have a solution when we want our soon-to-be 7 yr old to not eat all of something (thus leaving none for the rest of us)....we divide them up and give him his own supply of whatever (like, a batch of muffins we just baked) and he can "budget" them out on his own. He can eat them all within the first five minutes if he wants, or he can save them and enjoy some later, like DH and I do with ours. It's up to him. We did that with gum, too, because he discovered that he likes it, and yet we have never just bought candy on the fly like that...so I got the brilliant idea to say on Wednesdays we buy him a pack of gum; how fast he eats it is up to him. And it's funny because it's sort of like teaching him about budgeting, delayed gratification, all that stuff. And since he is in charge of it, he enjoys it.

But those are the only big controlly things we do, and I think they are both very helpful. He enjoys being in charge of his own treats. And we don't keep junk in the house so he's really free to grab anything he wants whenever he's hungry. Though it's usually just bread or PB&J. We go through a lot of that in this house!


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman* 
I understand part of your point being that routine is important, including meal times. I don't get the issue though with food in general???? How do you know that your child truly isn't hungry? There's a big difference between setting up a schedule and setting yourself up for some major drama when it comes to eating habits.
OP, I think one PP said it best when she said that what you are doing clearly isn't working. I agree with a lot of the suggestions you've been given, especially the go to shelves in the fridge and pantry. I feel sad that your son had to sneak an apple. Does that really seem right to you? Consider putting yourself in their shoes for a second. How would that feel if you had no control over what you could eat and when you could eat it. You were at the mercy of a governing figure who decided what your meals would be and when you would get them...oh and you're hungry? Too bad. You'll wait until I give you your next meal or snack. Your children are probably feeling really powerless right now, and when children feel powerless they act out ( like eating food off the floor and begging from other people). You need to take a look at your own policies and see where you can institute some compromises. Seeking the aid of a counselor might be adviseable at this point as well.

Well if you would have read the rest of my thread you could see where I said having a shelf in the fridge or wherever that they can have at free will is a good idea. However I also believe in the mentality you eat what I cook I am not a short order cook, I wouldn't make them eat anything they truly don't like. I also go with the thinking that if you don't want to eat when we eat then so be it, it will be there when you are ready to eat.

And I am pretty sure most parents can tell when their kid is really hungry or not. And telling a child to wait even an hour is not going to kill them or deprive them of anything. More so if the parent knows the child will be filled up on the snack prior to supper so saying no hunny we are eating in an hour you have to wait is not a bad thing.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Op, in the interest of your boys eating at served meals, have you tried monkey platters? I didn't know that term until I saw it linked here on MDC, but that is essentially how I feed my little kids breakfast and lunch. I put out a platter of lots of yummy, nutritious goodies, and it is pretty irresistable. They can serve themselves from the platter, giving them lots of choice and control.

For family dinners, I also include small plates of yummy sides that might otherwise be on a "monkey platter" (olives, cut fruit or tomatoes/cucumbers, cheese cubes, etc). Again, everything is served family style, and the children serve themselves as they grow able. I determine what goes on the table, but they determine what goes on their plate.

Also, I'm going to speak up in defense of salt







You mentioned cooking low-salt, but some of the foods they are "sneaking" are salty (like cheese sticks). Kids are moving and sweating out salt, and salt makes food _taste better!!!_. Maybe you should try adding more salt to their meals?

If you believe your boys are turning to food out of boredom sometimes, that isn't really a food issue at all. That's a boredom issue.

Finally, yes, have some "free range" food available. A fruit bowl is a great choice. Please don't ration apples, unless it is out of financial need.

Oh, and one more thing....sit with them, but don't comment on what they eat at meals. Make meals interesting in other ways--take turns telling what you are each thankful for, or naming the best and worst part of the day, making plans, etc, but don't talk about what people are/are not eating. If they make noises about the food, change the subject: "Take what you'd like. What is your favorite Winter olympics event so far?" Make mealtime appealing for spending time together, and food secondary.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

Thanks for that link Sunnmama!! My little guy fell off the chart weight wise (he is still wearing his 9 mo winter coat and he is 21 mos) so I am always looking for fun ways to encourage healthy eating without hovering over him and fretting that he is not eating enough.

I have lots of little figner foods but never considered doing a plate like that-I will try it tonight.


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## mama2cal&darby (Jun 13, 2008)

When my youngest DS started to exibit eating issues I contacted a friend who used to work for the National Eating Disorder Clinic for help. Both my DH and I grew up with issues and are very conscious that parents can, although well-meaning, create life-long problems for kids with food.
My friend told me that Ellyn Satter (www.ellynsatter.com ) is considered the go-to women for how to feed kids. I noticed that a pp recommended a book of her's, but then offered some advice which, I believe is in condradiction to what Ellyn Satter would advise.
My DS's issues are not the same as your's, so I won't speak to it, but my understanding, in a nutshell of what ES believes is that parents are responsible for the *what, where and when* of eating and kids are responsible for the *how much and whether*. Parents should provide meals and sitdown snacks for kids every 2-3 hours (and sitdown with them- no eating while doing other things), allow kids to eat as much as they desire of what is being served - although only one serving of dessert, if being offered(no emotion or comment on what or whether they eat) and when eating is done there should be no food until the next meal/snack time except water.
This is my understanding, so far of what she recommends, though like I said my DS's issues are not the same, so the book I am currently reading of Ellyn Satter's would not be the one for you. Definitely you should go to her website, though.
Good luck, and I personally go to the professionals for help, rather than take advise from well-meaning people who lack any real knowledge of a very delicate issue.


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## mum21andtwins (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2cal&darby* 
ES *believes* is that parents are responsible for the *what, where and when* of eating and kids are responsible for the *how much and whether*. Parents should provide meals and sitdown snacks for kids every 2-3 hours (and sitdown with them- no eating while doing other things), allow kids to eat as much as they desire of what is being served - although only one serving of dessert, if being offered(no emotion or comment on what or whether they eat) and when eating is done there should be no food until the next meal/snack time except water.
.

yeah thats what my mum did and boy did it cause me issues. Some of the what you so condesendingly call well meaning people might have a heck of a lot more expirience than you realise. And just because someone has a fancy label like dokter or what not that does not allways make them a better person to turn to when issues arrise. I mean how many dr would recomend a circ or formula.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I am not a fan of Satter at all, however the families I know who used that approach always kept fruit availabe 24/7, because they found it impossible to anticipate every growth spurt or burst of activity that brought on major hunger before 'official' mealtimes.


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

I think people are way too fast to characterize any kind of behavior around food that doesn't meet with their approval as an "eating issue." If your kid eats tacos and green beans, they don't have any "food issues" apart from the ones you're creating by restricting food. If you know they are hungry, FEED THEM. If they didn't want to eat oatmeal and bacon, well, some days I don't feel like eating oatmeal, either.

I give them the food they want to eat on the days they want to eat it, within reason. They're allowed to change their minds and they're allowed to inconvenience me. It's part of being a parent.

My son eats cereal, nuggets and fries from McDonald's, and white bread. That's restricted eating, and it's a problem. If he ate peanut butter and jelly, I'd cry for joy. STEALING food? If your children take food that belongs to them, how can it be stealing?

ETA: Totally agree with the PP. Ellyn Satter gives people who *want* to be controlling around food legitimacy. That's my take, anyway.


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## mama2cal&darby (Jun 13, 2008)

I'm so sorry if I sounded condesending, that really was not my intention.
I do not at all pretend to be an expert, I am just someone trying to deal with her own child's eating without making long term issues for him. Like I said, the head of the National Eating Disorder Clinic, herself, recommended going with Ellyn Satter. Take it for what it's worth.


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## mama2cal&darby (Jun 13, 2008)

I also just have to add, in response to the pp, that the very last thing I *want* is to be controlling around food and the woman from NEDC who advised me also said that if your kid will only eat pickles and cheese for a year (which she tells me she did as a child) feed them pickles and cheese for a year, don't get into power struggles over food.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2cal&darby* 
When my youngest DS started to exibit eating issues I contacted a friend who used to work for the National Eating Disorder Clinic for help. Both my DH and I grew up with issues and are very conscious that parents can, although well-meaning, create life-long problems for kids with food.
My friend told me that Ellyn Satter (www.ellynsatter.com ) is considered the go-to women for how to feed kids. I noticed that a pp recommended a book of her's, but then offered some advice which, I believe is in condradiction to what Ellyn Satter would advise.
My DS's issues are not the same as your's, so I won't speak to it, but my understanding, in a nutshell of what ES believes is that parents are responsible for the *what, where and when* of eating and kids are responsible for the *how much and whether*. Parents should provide meals and sitdown snacks for kids every 2-3 hours (and sitdown with them- no eating while doing other things), allow kids to eat as much as they desire of what is being served - although only one serving of dessert, if being offered(no emotion or comment on what or whether they eat) and when eating is done there should be no food until the next meal/snack time except water.
This is my understanding, so far of what she recommends, though like I said my DS's issues are not the same, so the book I am currently reading of Ellyn Satter's would not be the one for you. Definitely you should go to her website, though.
Good luck, and I personally go to the professionals for help, rather than take advise from well-meaning people who lack any real knowledge of a very delicate issue.

I think some of the problem is that it's easy to oversimplify what Satter is saying. In addition to advising that parents are responsible for the what, where and when, she tells parents to make sure that there is sufficient amounts of children's favorite foods available at every eating time.

She emphasises that it is parents responsibility to *feed* their children, not make them eat. The 24/7 fruit access is entirely consistent with her approach I think.

That said, I found much of her advice useful in thinking through issues generated by allergies in our house, but am not a follower.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

It seems to me that Satter is used to working with families who are in one way or another a lot MORE restrictive than what she recommends-- either attempted force-feeding, or excessive restricting-- so by comparison she is trying to get people to lighten up. She does say in at least one of her books to make sure that each meal includes at least one thing that the child likes, as a side dish if nothing else, so they can eat if they are truly hungry.


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## MamaHappy (Dec 5, 2009)

My reponses are in red.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomaYula* 
My 7yo twin boys are hungry and will only eat a few things (cold cereal; fruit; tacos; pbj sandwiches; green beans). Well, at least these are reasonably healthy things... it could be worse, lol.









If they do not like what I make them, they will sneak into the fridge -- without permission! -- and gorge on fruit or cheese sticks or bread, whatever they can get their hands on while I'm in the shower or bathroom! If this is your house rule, then this doesn't sit right with me either. Why are they sneaking? Is it because they think you'll say no if they ask for a snack? How do you react when they sneak food?

If we go to someone's house, they will go into that person's fridge or looking for food in their cabinets. They will also eat off the floor in a restaurant. Nope, not okay. Just bad manners and rude all around. Put a stop to this.

I am really worried, sad -- EMBARRASSED! My children are sneaking food, eating off floors, and begging! -- and need some advice.

My "food philosophy" is basically this: I decided what is served and when (with some flexibility) and kids decide if and how much they will eat. I do make an effort to prepare things I know they like and nothing too weird. If they decide not to eat a particular meal, that is fine. They can eat at the next snack/meal.

To address some issues:

1. I cook very kid-friendly meals. My own palate is very bland -- not a lot of spices or salt -- and I make a lot of chicken and beef meals with rice and vegetables. Chicken pot pie; lasagna; english-muffin pizzas; broccoli/cheese quiche.
Sounds good to me! Make sure you make their favorite foods too. It also sometimes help to have kids involved with the preparation of meals.

2. I have told them repeatedly that I do not want them in the fridge without permission, or eating without permission. I make them three meals per day, with a snack in between each meal. The snack is usually fruit or crackers with peanut butter or a cheese stick or popcorn. However, if I turn my back, they are in the kitchen sneaking food. Today one of my boys put an apple in his pants to hide it from me.

Okay, I personally don't think it's unreasonable to not want your children sneaking food and having unlimited access to the fridge. I know others disagree and feel this is too strict and controlling, but I really think it's fine. I think someone suggested some kind of "snack shelf".. maybe you could do this? Maybe after breakfast (or whatever meal), you could say something like, "if you guys get hungry later, you can go ahead and have a snack off the special shelf" or whatever. It gives them some control.

Also, maybe let them chose their snacks (within reason)? And you can give them choices (also within reason) for meals too. Like, "would you like sandwiches or tacos for lunch"?

3. They are clearly hungry. Today my boys did not eat breakfast (by their choice; it was oatmeal with honey and brown sugar, and bacon). We went for lunch at Chick-Fil-A and one of them was actually eating food off the floor when he was finished with his lunch.
Again, teach them that eating food off of the floor is bad manners. If they are still hungry, then you can get them more food. But there is no need to eat off the floor. Gross!

4. I am at my wits' end over this. I am tired of fighting over food, but I think it's important that they eat a variety of foods, incorporating lots of colors and textures.
Yes, this is important, but like you said....
I realize I cannot force them to eat, but neither can I have them eating off the floor, or begging people for food -- they also did that at Chick-Fil-A, when they were done eating and one of their friends was still eating his lunch.
You're right, you can't force them to eat, nor should you! If they have finished their meal and are still hungry, just teach them to politely let you know they are still hungry and would like more to eat. Don't say no, just give them more. It's not a big deal.... really.









Please advise. Every meal is becoming a battleground and I hate it.
I don't blame you, I would hate it too! Continue to serve tasty, healthy meals and snacks. Let them decide if and how much they will eat. Don't nag, pressure, get frustrated, etc. If they have finished a meal and they are still hungry, go ahead and give them more to eat. It's okay!

I am really surprised at how many people think it's okay for your kids to refuse to eat their breakfast and then go behind your back and just raid the fridge! I would be frustrated with this as you are!! I find this to be very disrespectful and wasteful. I agree it's not good to be over-controlling with food but *some* boundaries are just fine. If they chose to not eat their breakfast, then fine, but then they're not entitled to a free-for-all when you're not looking.

Also, I find it helpful when telling a child what they CAN'T do, to follow up with something they CAN do. So you could say, "It's not okay to raid the fridge behind mommy's back, but you can come to me for a snack or chose a snack off the snack shelf", or whatever. When my boys don't eat a meal, I will sometimes save it for a snack for them later on in the day. They will often eat it and happily!


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

One thing I would want to know is for instance, she said she feed them Chick Fil A...

What did she order for them at Chick Fil A? If she just ordered a kids meals (usually a 4 piece nugget or a chicken strip, small fries and a drink), I can truly see the kids as still being hungry. My son is almost 7 years old, and there are a lot of times he will eat an adult meal at Chick Fil A, or other places.

I too have lots of food issues, but have lessened up on several things, and now have fewer issues with my oldest, who is almost 7. He eats a lot.

Breakfast - 1 package instant oatmeal; 1 piece of fruit; 1 glass of milk. And sometimes he is still wanting more food...we give him toast, or a bagel.

Morning snack - he is at school, but we still pack a little bowl with some cracker type snack or fruit or 1/2 bag microwave popcorn.

Lunch: 2-4 oz Salmon; fruit; crackers; 8 oz milk; yogurt/gogurt; cut veggies

On way home from school we will occasionally now stop and get him a Chicken Sandwhich from McDonalds. But only if he has eaten all his lunch and is starving.

At home (regardless of McDonalds trip or not) fruit or peanut butter crackers; yogurt. sometimes popcorn.

Only three rules dinner: 1) I cut snacking off now about 30 minutes before dinner (basically about the time I start cooking it). 2) If you don't what is served on your plate at meal time, no desert or snacking later - you can eat/finish your meal. 3) You get one glass of milk served with your meal. if you drink it before you are done eating, you will have to eat most of what is served before you get more (prevents them drinking their dinner).

Dinner: 1 pork chop (thin cut); veggie; another side dish that is more of a starch type; sometimes I will cut up some fruit if i have time - like share an apple between all three kids; milk; dessert - sometimes it is frozen juice on a stick; sometimes it is a yogurt; sometimes it is cookies, etc.

And he still usually wants a before bed snack. Usually fruit or peanut butter crackers.

Oh, and if they are enrolled in any type of activity after dinner, there are times they want and will eat another whole meal. After Karate or ice skating, my almost 7 year old will eat 1/2 - 3/4 lbs of apple slices, a bottle of water, or some low sugar juice, 2 tubes gogurt or a big thing of yogurt; and a thing of 6 Austen PB crackers.

My kids, except the 2 year old (but she generally only goes for the fruit, cheese or snack meats), know what they can have from the fridge. My problem is my 4 year old, who is picky. He will want the same food for weeks on end, and then one day just decide he doesn't like it anymore and you are stuck guessing until you figure out his new thing. He is also hording or hiding or sneaking food. I think I know why, but not sure how to address it, and it may be related to his special needs.

There are times we do adult meals, my 7 year old will eat most of those - salmon, fish, cabbage rolls, shrimp, etc, and a lot of it my 2 year old will as well. But if I am making an "adult" meal, I will make a kid friendly alternative if they don't want/like it.

And my child is nowhere near even being much about the 50-60th percentile for weight. At almost 7, he is about 4 foot 3-5 inches tall, and probably weighs 60lbs soaking wet. He can still fit into size 4 pants (they are very tight and way too short). In shorts he is wearing about a size 5 or maybe a size 6 depending upon the brand/cut. He has to have slim cut pants, otherwise they look like a bag cinched in at the middle.

Just wanted to add:

That on Father's Day, DS1, was about 1/4 - 1/2 inch shy of being 48 inches. We went to Cedar Point and that is how much the bar was above his head. On Labor Day Weekend, he was about 1/2 - 3/4 inches above the 48 inch bar. So, you are talking 2 1/2 months and he sprouted up close to an inch in height. And since that time, he is probably grown another 2 inches. All that growth takes food, sleep and energy.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Silly question here, why weren't cheese sticks and bread on the list of foods they'll eat?


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Viola* 
This is such a hard and confusing issue. I have daily food struggles with my kids also, but interestingly enough, they don't sneak food. In fact, that's kind of the problem, if they just ate the food they had access to, I'd be OK with that. There is plenty of food here they could eat, but instead they tell me how they hate all the foods I make and all the foods I have in the house, and ask for things we don't have, like potato chips. And when they tell me they are hungry, it kind of sets me off a bit, I have to say. I walk in the door at 9 o'clock at night and get the "I'm hungryyyyyyyyy" thing, and know they very well could be hungry since they didn't eat the dinner I made, yet I know there is food here they could have eaten and didn't. I also know that when I offer it they won't eat it, because they want some fantastical delicious thing they think I might somehow have, or they'll even think I'll take them to a restaurant.

Someone mentioned in another thread that they had a talk with their kids about how you don't always have to have your most favorite food that you feel like having right then. That it can be okay to really want pasta and have rice instead.

Of course with kids who are willing to go to sleep hungry, I suspect that method won't help you as much.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaHappy* 
I am really surprised at how many people think it's okay for your kids to refuse to eat their breakfast and then go behind your back and just raid the fridge! I would be frustrated with this as you are!! I find this to be very disrespectful and wasteful. I agree it's not good to be over-controlling with food but *some* boundaries are just fine. If they chose to not eat their breakfast, then fine, but then they're not entitled to a free-for-all when you're not looking.

You know a lot of us here don't consider a 7 year old going to make themselves a snack to be raiding the fridge. We consider it a sign that the 7 year old was hungry and felt like making themself a snack.

Honestly I would never try to have that much control over what a seven year old eats. By the time DD was seven we had taught her how to make a few simple things without the stove so she could get her own food. But then asking someone else to make you something when you're hungry and they aren't doesn't fly in this house past a certain age. You get breakfast, lunch and dinner made for you, but other then that unless it's offered it's generally accepted that someone isn't going to just stop what they are doing to feed you.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

First of all, they sound hungry, and so long as they're eating healthy foods like cheese and apples (two of your examples of foods they're sneaking) I'd lay off. Kids go through growth spurts and there are times where my just-turned-8-year-old eats a surprising amount of food. Times where she eats a lot less.

Second, I would have them get their own breakfast together. My dd gets her own breakfast. She knows what is available for breakfast and gets something together each morning. If she wants something more involved than she can handle and I have time, I make it for her. For instance, we keep hard boiled eggs in the fridge for her, but if she was scrambled eggs then she asks.

Third, I'm afraid they could start to feel labeled as "sneaks" or that they are "stealing". My dd said she was sorry for stealing some chocolate chips I had on hand for baking cookies for a school event one time. I said that our family owns all the food in our house, and she can't steal food that belongs to us. I don't want her to feel like she's stealing if she's hungry for food we own. But that the chips were needed for cookies, and she knew that, so to please ask if she is wanting something like that so I can be careful that it won't impact my cooking plans. As it was, she ate so few chips that the cookies were fine anyway. And I'd be fine with her having a few chips, but I'd rather she go through me for stuff she knows is intended for something specific just so my plans aren't impacted.

Generally, we don't have stuff like chocolate chips, cookies, chips, etc. on hand, so whatver she eats is healthy. And I find that if only healthy choices exist, she does a really good job instinctively balancing her diet. She'll get celery sticks some of the time, nuts some of the time, cheese some of the time, apples, etc. But it's a nice mix. She seems to be hungry for what her body needs. My feeling is that we all start out with those instincts, but that we lose them as we grow for a variety of reasons, from the "clean your plate" movement to processed foods that trick our bodies into thinking we're filling needs that aren't being filled, like fruit snacks trick us into feeling like we've eaten fruit.

Fourth, I'm a big believer in information being power, and we have gone to the library and gotten books for kids about healthy eating. We've also researched that issue on the internet. We also model healthy eating and talk about health and food and the relationship.

Anyway, there are a lot of ways to handle this, and my dd is good at self regulation so this works for us. I offer it as one perspective, not as the gospel on food and parenting.


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## daniellebluetoo (Jul 11, 2008)

I am so disappointed by all the rude comments I'm reading ;-(

This is MOTHERING, we all do it differently, and if we can't come here for some support then why come here at all????

With that said..... I have an 8 yr old boy, growing faster than i know what to do with and eats as much as a grown man!!! I am also a nanny, have been for years and can say that I DON"T think it's wrong to set boundaries for food, just like I don't think it's wrong to set boundaries for the house.

My suggestion would be, (for the time being), don't stock things you don't want them eating. While this doesn't help with the sneaky-ness, it will prevent them from eating things you don't approve of. If they know that there is nothing worthwhile to sneak, maybe they will stop, and a habit is easiest to break when it CAN"T be done.

Give them a list of things they CAN eat at will, and perhaps times they can too.









For the eating off the floors and going into other peoples kitchens uninvited, that is more a manors issue than a food issue. I would tell them that until they straighten up, they can not go out to eat with you, if you need to do take out, then pick it up, have it delivered, get drive thru or something that doesn't ALLOW for them to eat off a floor. Limit time at other peoples houses (if you can).. Maybe get the other parents involved too, I know that I would personally take issue with any ones kids going thru my fridge and kitchen, not that I wouldn't feed them, I would just expect better manors, and tell them flat out, it's not acceptable for them to do that.

Rules in my house are: I cook, you eat.
I cook lots and 98% of the time it's a great whole foods meal, we do indulge sometimes, but not often. Nor can I afford it. Dinner is also the last meal of the day, since my DS goes to bed at 7pm, (gets up at 6am) dinner us usually around 5pm. Most of the time this works, occasionally DS will not like what he's being served, so will eat less. I remind him that the next meal is breakfast and he will eat enough to fill his tummy but may not thoroughly enjoy it. Thats OK as far as I'm concerned, he doesn't HAVE to love every meal. During the day when he's home from school or weekends, he asks for snacks, 99% of the time he gets a yes answer, and I except his snack proposal, but if it's close to dinner or if he want something messy and were on our way out the door, I'll suggest something else or get him started on the next meals veggies.

It's OK to have rules, even about food.

It's OK to expect your kids to have manors.

It's OK to expect your rules to followed.

Hugs mama! I hope you find the answers that YOUR family needs real soon!


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Oh yeah, that last post reminds me of what else I wanted to say.

I would treat the manners issue separately from the hunger/food issue. No matter how hungry they are, they should not beg people for food or eat off restaurant floors. I would discuss them with your kids as separate issues so that they understand that even if they're hungry and you're willing to make changes there, that it is still very rude to do the other things.

I would consider the restaurant floor issue to also be health related. I'd be worried about my dd getting sick and would just get take-out until things got figured out. Who knows what's been on people's feet down there! Ugh!


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 
I am so disappointed by all the rude comments I'm reading ;-(

This is MOTHERING, we all do it differently, and if we can't come here for some support then why come here at all????

With that said..... I have an 8 yr old boy, growing faster than i know what to do with and eats as much as a grown man!!! I am also a nanny, have been for years and can say that I DON"T think it's wrong to set boundaries for food, just like I don't think it's wrong to set boundaries for the house.

My suggestion would be, (for the time being), don't stock things you don't want them eating. While this doesn't help with the sneaky-ness, it will prevent them from eating things you don't approve of. If they know that there is nothing worthwhile to sneak, maybe they will stop, and a habit is easiest to break when it CAN"T be done.

Give them a list of things they CAN eat at will, and perhaps times they can too.









For the eating off the floors and going into other peoples kitchens uninvited, that is more a manors issue than a food issue. I would tell them that until they straighten up, they can not go out to eat with you, if you need to do take out, then pick it up, have it delivered, get drive thru or something that doesn't ALLOW for them to eat off a floor. Limit time at other peoples houses (if you can).. Maybe get the other parents involved too, I know that I would personally take issue with any ones kids going thru my fridge and kitchen, not that I wouldn't feed them, I would just expect better manors, and tell them flat out, it's not acceptable for them to do that.

Rules in my house are: I cook, you eat.
I cook lots and 98% of the time it's a great whole foods meal, we do indulge sometimes, but not often. Nor can I afford it. Dinner is also the last meal of the day, since my DS goes to bed at 7pm, (gets up at 6am) dinner us usually around 5pm. Most of the time this works, occasionally DS will not like what he's being served, so will eat less. I remind him that the next meal is breakfast and he will eat enough to fill his tummy but may not thoroughly enjoy it. Thats OK as far as I'm concerned, he doesn't HAVE to love every meal. During the day when he's home from school or weekends, he asks for snacks, 99% of the time he gets a yes answer, and I except his snack proposal, but if it's close to dinner or if he want something messy and were on our way out the door, I'll suggest something else or get him started on the next meals veggies.

It's OK to have rules, even about food.

It's OK to expect your kids to have manors.

It's OK to expect your rules to followed.

Hugs mama! I hope you find the answers that YOUR family needs real soon!









I find it somewhat alarming that this is posted in Gentle Discipline, myself. Usually when someone wants this level of control, it's because of their own food issues.

If people don't want advice, they'd be well advised to not post asking for it. It's a cop-out to say "well, you don't know my situation." I don't think anyone was particularly rude in this post.


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 
I am so disappointed by all the rude comments I'm reading ;-(

This is MOTHERING, we all do it differently, and if we can't come here for some support then why come here at all????


I think the issue that most have here is:

1) Mother clearly states her children are hungry, even still after eating what is put before them.

2) Mother has strict eating guidelines. For instance. I only serve X for breakfast, if you are still hungry too bad, that is all you get until our scheduled snack time.

3) Mother refuses to allow them to have anything other than what she provides them for their 3 meals and 2 snacks a day. Even if they are still hungry. She wont even allow them an "apple" or "cheese" between meals/snacks, if they are hungry, which she states they are.

These children appear to most of us to need additional food, due to their behavior - going behind Mother's back when she is not looking to get it; when at other people's house going through their stuff to get food; they will scrounge for food off the floor or other people in the eating place because they want more and mother wont give it to them.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I would treat the manners issue separately from the hunger/food issue. No matter how hungry they are, they should not beg people for food or eat off restaurant floors. I would discuss them with your kids as separate issues so that they understand that even if they're hungry and you're willing to make changes there, that it is still very rude to do the other things.









: They should be going to YOU for more food.

And if they aren't able/willing to do that, that gives you another piece of your puzzle right there.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I think the problem is that people see that there is almost certainly no way to solve this without them getting more food, and IMO getting more control about what as well as how much. Hunger is a bigger motivator than wanting to have good behavior or wanting to please mom. Hunger is a huge motivator. You can't punish, teach, or train someone to stop being hungry. I agree that this isn't really a discipline issue, except the manners part, and if they're hungry enough they're going to have real trouble being polite about food issues.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

We're talking about kids hungry for an apple or some cheese, not kids who are gorging themselves on take-out.


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 

From what I've read in the OP's post she IS giving the boys meals, they are HUNGRY because they are not EATING THEM.... and instead choosing to "snack out".... I would be hard pressed to ASSUME that mom is cutting the boys off at meal times when they are asking for food,(like most here are) and then harshly criticizing the OP for what tantamount's in their eyes as starvation. The Op is CLEARLY distraught over this, because the boys aren't heeding her wishes, are being sneaky and are wasting food at meal times. This would drive me nuts too, we are on a strict budget, and couldn't' afford to feed any one SOLELY on "snack" type foods. 7 apples costs a whole heck of a lot more than a bowl of oatmeal or home made soup, or what ever, fresh produce IS a commodity around here, it is given plentifully, but in balance to everything else as well.

Not only that, but alot of PP's are assuming that the only reason a child would act that way is BECAUSE he was hungry. WRONG.


Sorry Mods, not sure how to do multiple quotes, so I am going to put quotes from the OP in red...

2. I have told them repeatedly that I do not want them in the fridge without permission, or eating without permission.

This highly disturbs me, the kids have to have permission from her to eat. Shows a huge control issue over food, that she is making herself. At 7, these kids should be able to go get an apple from the fridge, a piece of bread, etc. if they feel hungry and should not need permission to eat.

I make them three meals per day, with a snack in between each meal.

I am sorry, my kids eat more than this, and generally (except issues with my almost 5 year old) eat their meals. When I find out they are not eating a meal, ie when DS1 who is almost 7 was not eating his lunch, then I investigate and he will eat his lunch as his snack and then get more if he wants/needs it. My kids are nowhere near overweight, as a matter of fact, they tend to be on the otherside, underweight.

The snack is usually fruit or crackers with peanut butter or a cheese stick or popcorn.

Again, this is not much of a snack for a 7 year old between meals. My almost 7 year old will eat a piece of fruit and cheese and/or crackers in one snack sitting. Why, because he is hungry. My almost 5 year old will eat a snack at morning pre-school (usually crackers and juice around 11:15), then come home eat a peanut butter sandwhich or 1 1/2 of them, then go on to his IEP services and still eat some or all of his lunch there around 1:15 (again dealing with other food issues with him and possible textures, so he wont always eat what is served) and then an afternoon snack there about 3:00, then come home and have an afternoon snack.

I have no problems with expecting a child to eat their meals, we do as well. DS2 often will not, but then will want to snack as well. We have initiated a policy that you have to eat your meal, or there will be no snacking, but I will "hold" their meal for them to eat later. Example - DS1 is in Karate. One night I made dinner, DS2 refused to eat. After Karate DD2 and DS1 had yogurt, apple slices, and peanut butter crackers for a snack. DS2 had to wait till we got home to eat his dinner when he wanted to snack food, since we forgot to bring it with us. Another Example - DS2 refused to eat his dinner. DH and I made a loaf of homemade bread. DS2 desperately wanted a piece of it...he was told no, because he had not eaten his dinner. Well, he went to the table and scarfed down every bite of food that he had on his plate. Another Example - We also do Chick Fil A for kids night. If a child does not eat their dinner before hand, they don't get anything to eat at Chick Fil A (ie ice cream, or chicken nuggets). We have brought their left over dinner on one occasion and made them eat it before they got anything else.

The kids are looking for some measure of control in their lives. They are also hungry, which is driving this even more. But you cannot make meal times a struggle. You should not also control the food to the point that every time a child is hungry they need permission for food, it will only lead to issues later in life focused around eating.

It is perfectly fine to tell your child that since you did not eat your breakfast right now, you can put it up (as in the fridge or other spot if it doesn't need to be cooled) and eat it later before you get any snacks. Yes, there are a few foods that are hard to do that with, but most things you can.

They are clearly hungry. Today my boys did not eat breakfast (by their choice; it was oatmeal with honey and brown sugar, and bacon). We went for lunch at Chick-Fil-A and one of them was actually eating food off the floor when he was finished with his lunch.

The best way to have handled this situation in the first place - They did not eat their breakfast, it is a food you can hold in the fridge and re-heat or be eaten cold. Serve that to them when they were asking for food. Then don't take them to Chick Fil A. She rewarded them with fast food for lunch, when they clearly didn't eat the breakfast. A place she knows they love and will eat, can get food off the floor and beg for food from others.

I posted for advice on eating issues not that long ago, and I took a lot of it to heart, and learned a lot. Much of what I am doing now, were suggestions from her.


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## daniellebluetoo (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
We're talking about kids hungry for an apple or some cheese, not kids who are gorging themselves on take-out.


You missed the point..... being that children don't always know their body limits

And the way I read Op's, it sounds like the boys are given PLENTY of opportunity to eat good healthy food at meals. they are CHOOSING not to, and then eating/sneaking the (higher priced) snack foods, behind moms back.

Oh yeah, their hungry alright, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT EATING THEIR MEALS. the Op probably wouldn't have any objection to the boys eating an apple after they had eaten their meal AND asked instead of taken it. There are more reasons than just "control" for requiring children to ask permission for things. I'll name a few of my own.

In this house, children ask permission for things because.....

I am not made of $,

If children are given free reign, and eat all of X,Y, or Z, then there is/may not be enough for the rest of the week, some one else's, lunch, or a dinner recipe.

It helps me keep mental inventory of our food stocks, and plan accordingly.

It's just plain good manners to have consideration for every one else it he household, and by ASKING before you take, allows me to gauge the food usage during the week.

I try to buy 98% healthy whole foods, and a few "snack" items. But if my son wants 5 sandwiches in one day, there won't be enough bread for the rest of the weeks school lunches.

I am not a short order cook, I am on a budget, I make frugal tasty meals, and that's that. Would I like to live extravagantly in the kitchen, sure who wouldn't....but that's not the reality of things.

Honestly I don't see the problem here as the OP trying to be "controlling"
I think she needs some organizational help, and a little help with the kids, getting them on board.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 
You missed the point..... being that children don't always know their body limits.

You missed the point. These kids don't appear to have the problem you're talking about. They are wanting normal amounts of healthy food.


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## daniellebluetoo (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
You missed the point. These kids don't appear to have the problem you're talking about. They are wanting normal amounts of healthy food.

Really>? why are you arguing with me>? Read my whole post, this issue DOES fit into context.

The OP CLEARLY says the boys are NOT eating their meals.....DUh, thats why they are hungry


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 
Really>? why are you arguing with me>? Read my whole post, this issue DOES fit into context.

The OP CLEARLY says the boys are NOT eating their meals.....DUh, thats why they are hungry









Ok. The boys aren't eating their meals. The OP states:

Quote:

Please advise. Every meal is becoming a battleground and I hate it.
Advising her that what she is doing is ok in the name of not wasting food is actually contraindicated here. That is CLEARLY not working or else this would not be the battleground she describes.

Different kids have different needs and wants when it comes to food. This level of control she is trying to have over her boys and food is not working at all. If what I was doing was disintegrating into this kind of battle I would stop what I was doing, and re-evaluate my attitudes and try and find a new path.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 
You missed the point..... being that children don't always know their body limits


I don't agree with this and I don't understand where this type of mentality would come from. Now certainly children with medical issues such as poor appetite or Prader-Wille syndrome would not have proper hunger and fullness cues, but short of that a child is well capable of knowing when he's hungry and when he's full. All children would probably overload on junkfood when given the chance, even I do that sometimes, but that's easily remedied by not allowing unmonitored access to junk food. The OP isn't even having that issue to begin with, the kids are wanting things like apples or cheese not candy or soda. I think by insisting that we as adults know more about what is going on in a child's stomach than they do, we are really devaluing their worth as a human being. Every person should have the right to say "I'm hungry, I'd like food please". Making them wait for 1/2 hour while a meal is being prepared is fine, but insisting that they eat WHAT SHE wants them to eat WHEN SHE wants them to eat in my mind is just plain old being stubborn. She came here for help, many people have offered loads of options. At this point she needs to decide how her parenting approach is working for her. If it's so important for her to maintain strict control over food, then she does so with the knowledge that her sons eating issues are going to continue to get worse. If she wants things to change then she needs to re-evaluate her stance and try to form some sort of workable compromise with her children. Kids aren't lab rats that can be trained and forced to do as we bid them to, they are humans with their own impulses and needs and desires. At some point she needs to recognize that they are trying to tell her something through their behavior and digging her heels in and blaming all of this problem on her son is not going to get the issue resolved.


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## daniellebluetoo (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
Ok. The boys aren't eating their meals. The OP states:
Advising her that what she is doing is ok in the name of not wasting food is actually contraindicated here. That is CLEARLY not working or else this would not be the battleground she describes.

Different kids have different needs and wants when it comes to food. This level of control she is trying to have over her boys and food is not working at all. If what I was doing was disintegrating into this kind of battle I would stop what I was doing, and re-evaluate my attitudes and try and find a new path.

I don't disagree here, of course SOMETHING needs to change, and I assumed that's why the Op was here to begin with. I don't how ever agree that food should be wasted just for the sake of "making little johnny happy".

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman* 
I don't agree with this and I don't understand where this type of mentality would come from. Now certainly children with medical issues such as poor appetite or Prader-Wille syndrome would not have proper hunger and fullness cues, but short of that a child is well capable of knowing when he's hungry and when he's full. All children would probably overload on junkfood when given the chance, even I do that sometimes, but that's easily remedied by not allowing unmonitored access to junk food. The OP isn't even having that issue to begin with, the kids are wanting things like apples or cheese not candy or soda. I think by insisting that we as adults know more about what is going on in a child's stomach than they do, we are really devaluing their worth as a human being. Every person should have the right to say "I'm hungry, I'd like food please". Making them wait for 1/2 hour while a meal is being prepared is fine, but insisting that they eat WHAT SHE wants them to eat WHEN SHE wants them to eat in my mind is just plain old being stubborn. She came here for help, many people have offered loads of options. At this point she needs to decide how her parenting approach is working for her. If it's so important for her to maintain strict control over food, then she does so with the knowledge that her sons eating issues are going to continue to get worse. If she wants things to change then she needs to re-evaluate her stance and try to form some sort of workable compromise with her children. Kids aren't lab rats that can be trained and forced to do as we bid them to, they are humans with their own impulses and needs and desires. At some point she needs to recognize that they are trying to tell her something through their behavior and digging her heels in and blaming all of this problem on her son is not going to get the issue resolved.


I disagree with your disgreeing ;-) THIS mentality comes from raising my own child, being one of 6 siblings, AND being a nanny to MANY children over the past 8 yrs, I like to cal lit my own personal empirical evidence. I also didn't say that I knew more about a childs stomach than he/she did. I said sometimes they need help learning what those cues are. and YES, when I have to cut my son off at his THIRD helping of pasta with his belly already bulging, I think it's safe to say at that point, that I know better than he does.

I also don't think there is anything all ALL wrong with having kids eat when YOU want them to eat, it's called meal times.

No the kids aren't gorging on junk food, but they ARE gorging on food that isn't intended as a meal.
And if in the OP's house thats how she runs things, then thats how she runs things. Maybe she needs to reevaluate her plan, maybe she just needs to tweak it... I can't say I'm not IN HER HOUSE. But from what I can gather form the OP is that I still think she needs some organization and help getting the kids on board.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Wow. I'm always so glad when my 8 yo goes and gets himself a snack by himself. He's a boy who will be a man soon enough. I want him to recognize when he is hungry, think about what sort of food will balance out what he has been eating, and go and get it. I don't want him waiting around for food to appear.









I have noticed he has more trouble following his hunger/fullness cues with certain foods, Chick-Fil-A sandwiches included. I always want another sandwich, too, even though I KNOW I'm full but I'm mature enough and aware enough to talk myself down. I think it's the MSG... The other "food" that does that to us is Italian water ice... Anyway, natural foods that haven't been designed with input by chemists don't have that effect.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom* 
I have noticed he has more trouble following his hunger/fullness cues with certain foods, Chick-Fil-A sandwiches included.










Grains in particular are horrible for this. I would not be surprised at all at a kid having 4-5 helpings of pasta even with a bulging stomach. A better solution than "don't eat anymore" would be to get a fat or protein into them.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom* 







Wow. I'm always so glad when my 8 yo goes and gets himself a snack by himself. He's a boy who will be a man soon enough. I want him to recognize when he is hungry, think about what sort of food will balance out what he has been eating, and go and get it. I don't want him waiting around for food to appear.









I have noticed he has more trouble following his hunger/fullness cues with certain foods, Chick-Fil-A sandwiches included. I always want another sandwich, too, even though I KNOW I'm full but I'm mature enough and aware enough to talk myself down. I think it's the MSG... The other "food" that does that to us is Italian water ice... Anyway, natural foods that haven't been designed with input by chemists don't have that effect.

You did make a good point in the type of food involved. I read somewhere that studies have shown that anything containing HFCS, alcohol or processed flour have a tendency to increase hunger cues inapporpriately. So yes, what you eat can mess with your hunger cues a bit. Good point.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 

and YES, when I have to cut my son off at his THIRD helping of pasta with his belly already bulging, I think it's safe to say at that point, that I know better than he does.

.

I think your particular scenario has more to do with the type of food served. Depends on the type of pasta but if it's normal ( meaning not whole grain pasta) then it would not be as filling. Did he eat ample protein with this meal as well. I've gorged myself on pasta, and I truly felt hungry even though I knew my stomach was full. Sometimes the foods themselves need to be examined.


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## Kreeblim (Dec 19, 2009)

daniellebluetoo I do understand where you're coming from, but your post reads as a judgement on many of the mothers here who were simply talking from their own situations. My kids have never eaten until their tummys are distended, and my oldest is in the 23rd percentile for weight and eats all day long. The OP did ask for advice and if you feel someone stepped over the line in their responce, please don't react to that person by being hypercritcal of everyone.

I really think the thing some of us are responding to is that these behaviors do not look strictly like a discipline issue. I see three:

1) Possible food pickiness.
2) Possible hunger.
3) Food boundaries.

It's really hard for me to imagine a 7 year old eating off the floor at a public restaurant unless that child is very very hungry, or has an issue like pica or something (which need medical attention). I assume OP has not modeled eating off the floor, has eliminated a medical issue and has tried teaching the kids that it's gross and dangerous, so I assumed the kid is likely hungry, which isn't hard for me to believe since my 5 year old eats more than I do and I was blown away the first time I kept a log of it (23rd percentile for weight mind you). Since OP very strictly regulates what food and how much the children eat (or so it seems from her post), she might not even realise just how much food a kid that age can pack away.

NOT eating at breakfast and then sneaking snacks is something I saw as a pickiness issue. I understand that no one wants to be a short order cook, but I could make zucchinni for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and even if my younger DS had to starve all day he would not eat it. Would enough starvation/punishment make him eat zuchinni? No idea, but it doesn't really bother me to make sure we have green beans available too. This issue is harder to deal with because you have to find a balance between what your kids will eat and what you are willing and able to accomodate. OP wrote about being super frustrated and having every meal be a battle...I don't see how writing about what helped us in that situation as being "judgemental" just because it doesn't involve some sort of punishment that will magically make a kid eat a meal he doesn't like.

Also, it's hard to imagine a child hiding an apple in their pants if they could have simply been allowed to eat it if they asked first. My kids were champion food hiders for a while but it was only "off limits" food that was taken and hidden.

Anyway, different things will work for different families, but whatever OP has been doing isn't working and she asked for advice. I know what DID work for us, and I would hope that's helpful to her as she searches for the solution for her family.


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## daniellebluetoo (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 








Grains in particular are horrible for this. I would not be surprised at all at a kid having 4-5 helpings of pasta even with a bulging stomach. A better solution than "don't eat anymore" would be to get a fat or protein into them.

It's funny, that you mention this, we DON"T have pasta often and this is one of the reasons, I also DO balance it out, ie, veggie primavera with usually chicken.
But it's that pasta that seems SO addictive!

I also don't say "dont eat anymore", it's more like,
Mom can I have more?,
me; Hmm, how much have you had already?,
him: two helpings.
me: Hmm, well hows your belly feel?
him:good. me: really?.. REALLY?.. it looks kinda full from here dude?
Him: yeah but it's just SO tasty!
me: I know it's tasty, mama had a little bit more myself tonight ;-) how about you take a break or a little rest, sit and talk to me about school for a few minutes then if your still hungry we'll talk about it again?
him: OK

Then we go on to chat while I clean up or do what ever in the kitchen, 9 times out of ten, he doesn't ask for another helping after that, if he does I will offer him another (which he usually doesn't finish) or offer him something else, and if he declines then I KNOW he wasn't really still hungry.

Thats how things go in THIS house. Of course this may not work for every one or every house, but it works here.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 
It's funny, that you mention this, we DON"T have pasta often and this is one of the reasons, I also DO balance it out, ie, veggie primavera with usually chicken.
But it's that pasta that seems SO addictive!

I also don't say "dont eat anymore", it's more like,
Mom can I have more?,
me; Hmm, how much have you had already?,
him: two helpings.
me: Hmm, well hows your belly feel?
him:good. me: really?.. REALLY?.. it looks kinda full from here dude?
Him: yeah but it's just SO tasty!
me: I know it's tasty, mama had a little bit more myself tonight ;-) how about you take a break or a little rest, sit and talk to me about school for a few minutes then if your still hungry we'll talk about it again?
him: OK

Then we go on to chat while I clean up or do what ever in the kitchen, 9 times out of ten, he doesn't ask for another helping after that, if he does I will offer him another (which he usually doesn't finish) or offer him something else, and if he declines then I KNOW he wasn't really still hungry.

Thats how things go in THIS house. Of course this may not work for every one or every house, but it works here.

ok, see. You aren't really controlling food. What you just did was teach your child how to really evaluate hunger cues. A common trick for dieters is to push away from the table for a 1/2 hour and see if they really feel hungry after that waiting period. Nothing wrong with that at all. But I don't think that's what the OP is doing. FWIW I think she needs to broaden her horizons as far the food she is preparing. Oatmeal and bacon sounds reasonable at first, but I know many people who wouldn't gag down oatmeal if it was the last food on this planet, and bacon gives my son headaches so he would refuse to eat that as well. I just think the OP needs to stop fighting and start talking with her kids. That would produce a lot of information that she can use to stop the mealtime battles.


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## daniellebluetoo (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kreeblim* 
daniellebluetoo I do understand where you're coming from, but your post reads as a judgement on many of the mothers here who were simply talking from their own situations. My kids have never eaten until their tummys are distended, and my oldest is in the 23rd percentile for weight and eats all day long. The OP did ask for advice and if you feel someone stepped over the line in their response, please don't react to that person by being hypercritical of everyone. Nope, I wasn't being hypercritical of every one else, I'm sorry you saw it that way. I did however see a few posters that were seriously out of line, and I felt a need to say something about that. Don't take it personally, really this is online chat, I don't









I really think the thing some of us are responding to is that these behaviors do not look strictly like a discipline issue. I see three:

1) Possible food pickiness.
2) Possible hunger.
3) Food boundaries.

I completely agree

It's really hard for me to imagine a 7 year old eating off the floor at a public restaurant unless that child is very very hungry, or has an issue like pica or something (which need medical attention). I assume OP has not modeled eating off the floor, has eliminated a medical issue and has tried teaching the kids that it's gross and dangerous, so I assumed the kid is likely hungry, which isn't hard for me to believe since my 5 year old eats more than I do and I was blown away the first time I kept a log of it (23rd percentile for weight mind you). Since OP very strictly regulates what food and how much the children eat (or so it seems from her post), she might not even realise just how much food a kid that age can pack away. BUT, if the kid isn't eating their meals OF COURSE they ARE going to be hungry between meals!!!!!!!

NOT eating at breakfast and then sneaking snacks is something I saw as a pickiness issue. I understand that no one wants to be a short order cook, but I could make zucchinni for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and even if my younger DS had to starve all day he would not eat it. Would enough starvation/punishment make him eat zuchinni? No idea, but it doesn't really bother me to make sure we have green beans available too. This issue is harder to deal with because you have to find a balance between what your kids will eat and what you are willing and able to accomodate. OP wrote about being super frustrated and having every meal be a battle...I don't see how writing about what helped us in that situation as being "judgemental" just because it doesn't involve some sort of punishment that will magically make a kid eat a meal he doesn't like. Again, if you wrote YOUR tactics, then this doesn't apply to you, I was referring to the PP's who wrote things (this is just wrong... control issues... starving her kids... ect ect ect, of course paraphrasing some here).... there were DEF. judgmental posts in regards to the OP, I fail to see how that is helpful. No one is going to listen to advice when it comes off as nasty and judgmental. I myself *may* think that there are things that the OP has/is doing incorrectly, but I am well aware of the fact that if I don't suggest something in a way that the OP will be receptive to, it helps no one.

Also, it's hard to imagine a child hiding an apple in their pants if they could have simply been allowed to eat it if they asked first. My kids were champion food hiders for a while but it was only "off limits" food that was taken and hidden. You'd think, right??? But I've seen it happen, HAD it happen.

Anyway, different things will work for different families, but whatever OP has been doing isn't working and she asked for advice. I know what DID work for us, and I would hope that's helpful to her as she searches for the solution for her family.

ABSOLUTELY, I agree 100% here

I have a random Q, it's been my observation that BOYS eat more than girls, do any of you moms with girls see the opposite? My son has ALWAYS eaten more than me or any of my nanny-girls, is this just coincidence?


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## mama1803 (Mar 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
You missed the point. These kids don't appear to have the problem you're talking about. They are wanting normal amounts of healthy food.


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 

You missed the point..... being that children don't always know their body limits


And as an adult you know your child's limits all the time? You can tell when they are hungry and go away from the table wanting more? You can tell when they need something to drink?

I am sorry, a child knows more about what is going on with them than we do when it comes to certain things. A child knows when they are hungry. We don't need to train them. They have learned it since they were born, unless you shoved so much food down them in a sitting that they never learned their natural limits from it. Look at breastfeeding...uneducated people tell a mother that their baby should only nurse for 10 minutes per side. This is not true, a baby should be allowed to nurse until they are done, and a clock should not be consulted - I had one child who took 30-40 minutes sometimes to get what he needed. I had another that at times would be done in 5-10 minutes.

Yes, as parents we need to make sure that our children are not gorging themselves to sickness on their favorite foods, and what is considered healthy eating. As in your example of the eating out...yes, the girl needed to be watched to ensure she wasn't eating beyond reason...but I to the flip side of that, my BFF's daughter will do this after coming back from her Bio Dad's at visitation, because she refuses to eat there. She does not like the foods, she is intollerant or allergic to much of it, and they refuse to make meals around what she is able to eat. So, she refuses. She comes home to Mom, and she will pig out for days on end. She will go to dad's for a week and loose 5 lbs, and then go home and gain it all back. The child is hungry, and needs the food and shouldn't be restricted from it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 

they are CHOOSING not to, and then eating/sneaking the (*higher priced*) snack foods, behind moms back.

In this house, children ask permission for things because.....

*I am not made of $*,

If children are given free reign, and eat all of X,Y, or Z, then there is/may not be enough for the rest of the week, some one else's, lunch, or a dinner recipe.

It helps me keep mental inventory of our food stocks, and plan accordingly.

It's just plain good manners to have consideration for every one else it he household, and by ASKING before you take, allows me to gauge the food usage during the week.

I try to buy 98% healthy whole foods, and a few "snack" items. But if my son wants 5 sandwiches in one day, there won't be enough bread for the rest of the weeks school lunches.

I am not a short order cook, I am on a budget, I make frugal tasty meals, and that's that. *Would I like to live extravagantly in the kitchen, sure who wouldn't....but that's not the reality of things.*

Honestly I don't see the problem here as the OP trying to be "controlling"
I think she needs some organizational help, and a little help with the kids, getting them on board.

A lot of what I see in your posts is about money - "high priced", "I am not made of money", "budgeting/limiting foods to ensure enough for a week".

In certain circumstances, this is perfectly fine - I am talking junk food - cookies, chips, candy, soda, ding dongs/ho hos/twinkies, etc. Those items should be limited and my kids in general ask first before they go for them. Even when I bake a cake, they ask first - generally they are allowed, unless it is not an appropriate time (ie after breakfast, or right before a meal), and I do tell them that they may have a piece later, but it is "too early", or "we are getting ready for dinner in a few minutes".

If you are running low on something - example you only have 2 apples left - yes, the child should come and say "Mom, there are only two apples left and I would like one of them". Why, not to control money, but so that a) You know you are running out of an item; and b) to show that they are looking out for everyone not just themselves.

I don't think people need to gauge food usage during the week, because that shows a sign of control. You don't need to inventory, that every week you buy 7 apples, 6 oranges, and 4 peaches.

I look every day in my fridge, since I make 3 meals a day in general) and have a good idea of what is in there. If I notice we are running low on something, I will write it down on a list. If I notice we are totally out of something I will go get it.

Plain and simple, it does cost a lot of feed kids. But I will skimp on other things to ensure that my kids get the good foods. So what if my kids eat all the apples in 2 days that I purchased. I will go buy more. I know exactly going into the store, that what I am buying will not last the week with my kids, and will need to make another trip to get more later. But I wont refuse my kids food if they are hungry. Why, because then I am not meeting their basic need of food. If my child wants 5 sandwhiches in one day, and it leaves me low on bread, I will put it on my list and get it the next day while I am running errands, or if it is all gone I will make a quick trip or have DH pick it up on his way home.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

They aren't eating meals, but then the question is WHY aren't they eating meals. How many times have they had oatmeal and bacon for breakfast? If they like apples and cheese better, maybe they can have an apple and some cheese for breakfast. Like I said in the first place, I'd leave what they have for breakfast up to them. I keep hard boiled eggs on hand. My dd often will have a hard boiled egg and some fruit for breakfast, before I even wake up.

The older kids get, the more they eat. My just-8-year-old dd eats as much as I do some of the time. That means I have to budget for her to eat that much, as that's how much she needs. My guess is that two 7-year-old boys eat about to as much as two small adults. Maybe the problem is that she hasn't budgeted for their growing appetities. And maybe if one item (like apples) are too expensive she can get whatever fruit is on sale that week. If apples are too expensive that week and there aren't any in the house that week, they'll eat what is in the house.


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## daniellebluetoo (Jul 11, 2008)

I didn't say anything about drinking.... But I am saying that sometimes children DO need help learning hunger and satiety cues. My son has never gone hungry, I don't profess to KNOW when he is or isn't, but as a very in-tune mom, I have a pretty good idea of when he "should" be, ie, after school, when he wakes up, meal times,basically every 2-3 hrs... ect ect..and I'm usually right, I know because my DS tells me







I also know that adults, myself included will sometimes eat when we aren't hungry, we eat out of celebration at a party, out of boredom, some eat from grief. I'm basically just saying there are more reasons than just hunger that makes people eat.

That really sucks about your BFF's daughter.







But good for her for knowing!!!

If your circumstances allow you to go to the store more than once a week or your finances allow you to budget more than I do for groceries, thats cool. But unfortunately, neither my schedule (ft working single mom and FT college student) or my current finances allow for me to.







It is what it is and for the time being I accept it, I know it will change. My DS understands that we can't just eat what we want when we want, because that might mean there isn't any left for latter or for mommy to make that killer meal he loves for dinner this week....natural consequences, really.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *khaoskat* 
And as an adult you know your child's limits all the time? You can tell when they are hungry and go away from the table wanting more? You can tell when they need something to drink?

I am sorry, a child knows more about what is going on with them than we do when it comes to certain things. A child knows when they are hungry. We don't need to train them. They have learned it since they were born, unless you shoved so much food down them in a sitting that they never learned their natural limits from it. Look at breastfeeding...uneducated people tell a mother that their baby should only nurse for 10 minutes per side. This is not true, a baby should be allowed to nurse until they are done, and a clock should not be consulted - I had one child who took 30-40 minutes sometimes to get what he needed. I had another that at times would be done in 5-10 minutes.

Yes, as parents we need to make sure that our children are not gorging themselves to sickness on their favorite foods, and what is considered healthy eating. As in your example of the eating out...yes, the girl needed to be watched to ensure she wasn't eating beyond reason...but I to the flip side of that, my BFF's daughter will do this after coming back from her Bio Dad's at visitation, because she refuses to eat there. She does not like the foods, she is intollerant or allergic to much of it, and they refuse to make meals around what she is able to eat. So, she refuses. She comes home to Mom, and she will pig out for days on end. She will go to dad's for a week and loose 5 lbs, and then go home and gain it all back. The child is hungry, and needs the food and shouldn't be restricted from it.

A lot of what I see in your posts is about money - "high priced", "I am not made of money", "budgeting/limiting foods to ensure enough for a week".

In certain circumstances, this is perfectly fine - I am talking junk food - cookies, chips, candy, soda, ding dongs/ho hos/twinkies, etc. Those items should be limited and my kids in general ask first before they go for them. Even when I bake a cake, they ask first - generally they are allowed, unless it is not an appropriate time (ie after breakfast, or right before a meal), and I do tell them that they may have a piece later, but it is "too early", or "we are getting ready for dinner in a few minutes".

If you are running low on something - example you only have 2 apples left - yes, the child should come and say "Mom, there are only two apples left and I would like one of them". Why, not to control money, but so that a) You know you are running out of an item; and b) to show that they are looking out for everyone not just themselves.

I don't think people need to gauge food usage during the week, because that shows a sign of control. You don't need to inventory, that every week you buy 7 apples, 6 oranges, and 4 peaches.

I look every day in my fridge, since I make 3 meals a day in general) and have a good idea of what is in there. If I notice we are running low on something, I will write it down on a list. If I notice we are totally out of something I will go get it.

Plain and simple, it does cost a lot of feed kids. But I will skimp on other things to ensure that my kids get the good foods. So what if my kids eat all the apples in 2 days that I purchased. I will go buy more. I know exactly going into the store, that what I am buying will not last the week with my kids, and will need to make another trip to get more later. But I wont refuse my kids food if they are hungry. Why, because then I am not meeting their basic need of food. If my child wants 5 sandwhiches in one day, and it leaves me low on bread, I will put it on my list and get it the next day while I am running errands, or if it is all gone I will make a quick trip or have DH pick it up on his way home.


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

I don't know how to multi quote so I am just going to address a few things said in some PP.

Most adults can't even tell the difference when they are really hungry or not so why would I expect a child to know. Carbs do cause a person to be hungry a lot faster then someone who fills up on protiens first. So allowing a child to fill up on carbs is doing no good.

I budget for 2 weeks worth and if something runs out before then to bad. It won't be boughten before then unless its something that is needed but I will not run to the store for anything outside of milk or other staples, however if I am going shopping in a day or two then it will wait.
I do have the mind set you eat what I make if you do not eat it then no snack/dessert later. But you are more then welcome to go back and finish what I cooked. Now if I know they don't like it and truly don't like it then I would offer something else.


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## daniellebluetoo (Jul 11, 2008)

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!

btw, for those of you interested in "multi quoting", the tab at the bottom to the right of the "quote" button lets you multi quote, you read the posts, and as you want to quote, you click that button, when you are done and want to reply, you then click on reply, it's puts all the posts you've just quoted in your reply form..... then you cut out what you don't want/need, from there... Easy Peasy! (don't feel bad it took me over a yr to figure that one out ;-)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *new2this* 
I don't know how to multi quote so I am just going to address a few things said in some PP.

Most adults can't even tell the difference when they are really hungry or not so why would I expect a child to know. Carbs do cause a person to be hungry a lot faster then someone who fills up on protiens first. So allowing a child to fill up on carbs is doing no good.

I budget for 2 weeks worth and if something runs out before then to bad. It won't be boughten before then unless its something that is needed but I will not run to the store for anything outside of milk or other staples, however if I am going shopping in a day or two then it will wait.
I do have the mind set you eat what I make if you do not eat it then no snack/dessert later. But you are more then welcome to go back and finish what I cooked. Now if I know they don't like it and truly don't like it then I would offer something else.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:

Most adults can't even tell the difference when they are really hungry or not so why would I expect a child to know.
Right. And how exactly will we help our kids learn these cues if we rigidly control every morsel of food they eat, and even more detrimental rigidly enforce when they will eat?

We don't know our hunger cues because we have learned to ignore them (watching TV while we eat, driving, using the computer etc), or because we were never allowed to learn our own cues and decide when we were hungry.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Exactly. It's an instinct we've lost. The ideal IMO is to help my kids retain that instinct.


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

In our home, my daughter spent years taking control of food. She has some additional challenges that make new tates and textures a HUGE issue.

My rule is that I make one meal- if I know it's something she will not eat, I will sometimes alter it to make a dish just for her (plain chicken strips instead of the stirfry etc) but generally, if she won't eat it, she has to come up with an acceptable alternative. Sometimes that is peanut butter and jelly, sometimes it's fruit and cheese cubes- we go with whatever works.

She is free to grab a healthy snack whenever she wants unless we are just about to eat.

I get budgeting, but if your kids are going hungry because you want to make your budget work, it's time to adjust the budget.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Okay, I just have to say, time will remedy a lot of what is going on in this thread. Ds is going on 14 and grew 7 inches last year. If I tried to be the one who fixed every meal and snack he needs I would literally live in the kitchen.

Puberty makes boys bottomless food pits. I do NOT know where it goes ladies. Really, I don't. Not that long ago ds was full after one slice of pizza, or half a Chick Fil A Nugget meal.

I recently saw him nearly polish off an entire Little Caesars $5 pizza by himself. As a snack. I only go to Chick Fil A on college night, when sandwiches are 2-for-1. Otherwise, I couldn't afford to feed him there.

A box of Annie's Mac and Cheese is a snack between meals. Not cheese and crackers, or fruit. An entire pot of Annie's Mac.

All I'm saying is...the best time to make sure your kids can 'do for themselves' in the kitchen is probably well before the raving hunger of the adolescent years. Otherwise you will never get a moment's peace.


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

I agree that as puberty begins to hit everything changes. My daughter is 8, and as the hormone shifts begin, she's suddenly eating things that even a year ago I would not have imagined her eating, and in such HUGE amounts!


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## Kreeblim (Dec 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 
Don't take it personally, really this is online chat, I don't









Oh I didn't. Not to worry.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 
BUT, if the kid isn't eating their meals OF COURSE they ARE going to be hungry between meals!!!!!!!

That's true, but in this case the OP says this in her original post:

Quote:

We went for lunch at Chick-Fil-A and one of them was actually eating food off the floor when he was finished with his lunch.
I think it's entirely appropriate to suggest that the OP evaluate whether her ideas about how much food her kids should be eating at a meal given that the child had already finished his lunch. The fact that the child chose to eat food off the floor rather than simply ask for more food tells me the same thing that the apple incident did...that the child probably feels that he would not be allowed to have more food.

I know you've mentioned money issues, but even if I could not afford more Chickfila, I'd tell my son that we would be home soon and he could have something then. I guess I'm just confused about what you took issue with in that paragraph considering the OP clearly states that he finsihed his lunch and was still clearly hungry


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

I can sort of understand not wanting one's kids to use snacks, even ones like string cheese and apples to fill up on after refusing meals...I don't know about the OP (sorry I havent read the whole thread) but we have a pretty tight budget to live on and those special snacks are for DS's lunch box and family outings when prepackaged food to take on the go is more practical. I simply can't afford to make those the main staples of my child's diet.

My 4 year old knows better than to go into the fridge behind my back, but who knows, at 7 he may defy me more in which case I may wind up doing what my parents did which was put a padlock and chain on the fridge door at night.

I used to cater to ds but recently, with a new baby I haven't got the energy to cook two or three meals (dh and ds eat meat and I don't) especially when I know darn well my food is AWESOME. About two weeks ago I just started saying "sorry, honey that's what's for dinner tonight. Don't want to try it, well you probably aren't that hungry. You're excused." Not surprisingly he has started eating what his dad and I eat.

I also do have a snack shelf I have set up for him with cereal, fruit, and other nibbles he can choose from throughout the day if he is hungry. If he fills up on those things instead of dinner, I don't really mind, but they are portioned out for a DAY, ONE day at a time! If he went and BINGED on a bunch of stuff not on his shelf, our special treats and his school snacks, I would be livid! Food is expensive and we simply can't afford to have a week of FAMILY snacks eaten in one afternoon by _one_ child. I would LOSE it seriously. I bet the bigger the family, the more annoyed this would make me.

ETA: For example, I just bought a big bag of dried apricots for about 15 dollars at PriceSmart. If ds went into the pantry and gorged on apricots without asking, I would be furious. They are supposed to last a MONTH and I have three special meals planned that include the use of them. We can't afford dried apricots other than at PriceSmart (they are imported here and VERY expensive!) so replacing them would mean waiting a month until we got paid again...and it would SO be coming out of his pocket money!

FWIW, if my kids were not eating at home, I just do not think I would not take them out to eat, and if they ever begged a stranger for food or ate off the floor I would not take them out to eat for a long _long_ time.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman* 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 








Grains in particular are horrible for this. I would not be surprised at all at a kid having 4-5 helpings of pasta even with a bulging stomach. A better solution than "don't eat anymore" would be to get a fat or protein into them.

You did make a good point in the type of food involved. I read somewhere that studies have shown that anything containing HFCS, alcohol or processed flour have a tendency to increase hunger cues inapporpriately. So yes, what you eat can mess with your hunger cues a bit. Good point.

Yep! MSG is a horrible culprit for this...and it is a REALLY sneaky ingredient! I would be surprised if Chik-Fil-A and their ilk din't have MSG in 90% of their menu offerings.


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## Kreeblim (Dec 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 

ETA: For example, I just bought a big bag of dried apricots for about 15 dollars at PriceSmart. If ds went into the pantry and gorged on apricots without asking, I would be furious.

On the plus side, gorging on dried apricots is quite the learning experience


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 
Yep! MSG is a horrible culprit for this...and it is a REALLY sneaky ingredient! I would be surprised if Chik-Fil-A and their ilk din't have MSG in 90% of their menu offerings.

It's listed in their ingredients for the breaded chicken sandwich. I didn't look up anything else. Amazingly, the lemonade is made with actual sugar rather than HFCS. http://www.dietfacts.com/list.asp?brand=Chick-Fil-A


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## Minxie (Apr 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 
My 4 year old knows better than to go into the fridge behind my back, but who knows, at 7 he may defy me more in which case I may wind up doing what my parents did which was put a padlock and chain on the fridge door at night.

I don't normally post here but this thread caught my attention for a couple of reasons. The above quotation is one of them, as is the idea that children cannot self-regulate what they eat. As a Certified Member of the Clean Plate Club, I am ADAMANT that my son learn to recognize and respect his hunger cues which mostly entails my respecting them. *He* knows when he is hungry or full; *I* am the one who needs to respect his knowledge.

Every family is different; I totally "get" that but...I could not imagine having to padlock my refrigerator to keep my child from eating. My son learned how to open the refrigerator and get an appropriate snack at the age of eighteen months. At the age of four, he is able to make an appropriate snack which usually includes fruit, leftovers such as steamed broccoli, or yogurt though he has started branching out to toast and sandwiches now. He usually does this without my permission; in fact, he will often offer to make me a snack while he's getting his.









I keep a fair amount of unhealthy foods (ice cream, cookies, chocolate) in my house at any given time. My DS does ask permission to eat these "treats" because I have taught him that "treats" are good _in moderation_. We've never had problems with him eating something I needed later as an ingredient. If I ever did, I would probably modify the recipe rather than be furious with my child for eating healthy foods.

Minxie


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## daniellebluetoo (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kreeblim* 
That's true, but in this case the OP says this in her original post:
I think it's entirely appropriate to suggest that the OP evaluate whether her ideas about how much food her kids should be eating at a meal given that the child had already finished his lunch. The fact that the child chose to eat food off the floor rather than simply ask for more food tells me the same thing that the apple incident did...that the child probably feels that he would not be allowed to have more food.

I know you've mentioned money issues, but even if I could not afford more Chickfila, I'd tell my son that we would be home soon and he could have something then. I guess I'm just confused about what you took issue with in that paragraph considering the OP clearly states that he finsihed his lunch and was still clearly hungry









Yeah, see, I can TOTALLY see this happening, in some strange Carol Burnet skit type of way....moms all over the place trying to manage a few kids, she's a bit flustered, and the oldest boys decide to "mess" with mom, instead of waiting or asking, they decide to start acting up and doing things like eating off the floor or asking strangers, things they KNOW will get moms attention...... I guess I just have a hard imagining that a mom actually limits her kids over all food intake, and that chicFila thing was more of a manors issue, with the boys either not wanting to be patient to wait for mom to get more food or maybe they just didn't like the answer they got which could have been wait til we get home, or no jhonny this food isn't the best food for you, you can have a salad off the menu if your still hungry...or what not. HOpe that made sense, I was up late working on my paper....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 
Yep! MSG is a horrible culprit for this...and it is a REALLY sneaky ingredient! I would be surprised if Chik-Fil-A and their ilk din't have MSG in 90% of their menu offerings.

I know isn't it awful, I am a big time label reader! We DO NOT have MSG or HFCS or anything even remotely close, our pasta is even whole grain... so when my son does over indulge in things like pasta, which are ALWAYS served with lots of vegg, and some protein.... it makes me wonder.. JUST what is it about that pasta that makes it SO irresistable???? i've even tried things like mungbean pasta's from the asian market, and still, mom can I have MORE!?!?!??!?!...hmmmm.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Minxie* 
he has started branching out to toast and sandwiches now.
Minxie

I thought this was cute







Do you have a toaster oven?


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Minxie* 
I don't normally post here but this thread caught my attention for a couple of reasons. The above quotation is one of them, as is the idea that children cannot self-regulate what they eat. As a Certified Member of the Clean Plate Club, I am ADAMANT that my son learn to recognize and respect his hunger cues which mostly entails my respecting them. *He* knows when he is hungry or full; *I* am the one who needs to respect his knowledge.

Every family is different; I totally "get" that but...I could not imagine having to padlock my refrigerator to keep my child from eating. My son learned how to open the refrigerator and get an appropriate snack at the age of eighteen months. At the age of four, he is able to make an appropriate snack which usually includes fruit, leftovers such as steamed broccoli, or yogurt though he has started branching out to toast and sandwiches now. He usually does this without my permission; in fact, he will often offer to make me a snack while he's getting his.









I keep a fair amount of unhealthy foods (ice cream, cookies, chocolate) in my house at any given time. My DS does ask permission to eat these "treats" because I have taught him that "treats" are good _in moderation_. We've never had problems with him eating something I needed later as an ingredient. If I ever did, I would probably modify the recipe rather than be furious with my child for eating healthy foods.

Minxie









but you did see that my son _does_ self regulate, and I was simply saying that IF he started to suddenly just eat all those treats behind my back I MIGHT resort to that? If my child suddenly started raiding the fridge as my brother and sisters and I did, I cannot really say what I would do. We teach them everything we can, but at some point they may just do what they WANT instead of what you have taught them, and I don't know about you, but I think it's important to respect the rights and needs of the _rest_ of the family, too.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

If a child is raiding the fridge, I'd ask why, not lock up the fridge. Is the child hungry? Is the child always wanting the same thing? Is it healthy food?

If it's about sweets, I just wouldn't have sweets in the house. And we really don't very often as dh and I have trouble not giving into the temptation of sweets as well. Actually dd is better about that than we are.

But if it's healthy food, I'd let my dd have what she wants. If one healthy food were too expensive, I'd buy a different one. But I wouldn't limit amount. If she's hungry, she gets to eat.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

You say they are clearly hungry, yet you can't understand why they are going into the fridge and getting food?

Really children should not need your permission to eat.

My 5 and 3 year old can get a piece of fruit, yogurt, sandwich, etc on their own. A cheese string is not a sufficient snack for either of them.

If someone doesn't feel like eating something (including my husband and I), we get ourselves something else.

I don't understand being so controlling about food. and then to be shocked that your kids sneak and beg food?


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I agree there's a lot going on here. OP I really respect you for recognizing that things are going off the rails and looking to fix it. I think your boys are giving you clear signals that this is not working for them.

I personally believe that there is a reasonably wide variety of ways to deal with food and family that mostly come out okay in the end. I think our culture is overall pretty sick about food, and sometimes in our quest to be great parents we get equally sick in trying to compensate for all the ills of the fast-food nation by controlling every bite in some other way, creating only the perfect feeding patterns or else we kind of give up.

Anyways I'm seeing that you like a lot of structure and that is ok. But your boys are giving you signals that your current structure is really, really not working for them. The first thing I would do would be sit down together and discuss the issue. You may not get any good info out of them but you might. I would say "I'm really worried about this behaviour because it is unacceptable to eat off the floor, but it's also really important to me that your needs are respected too."

The thing is, if your boys are into a power struggle with you, they're *not* really learning to regulate their eating or anything about health. You want them to learn that. *They're* learning how long they can hold out before they have to give in (or you do, by taking them out somewhere), and then gorging at that point.

This is not healthy eating. Your teaching and their learning are just way far apart. IME, you pretty much have to break the cycle before you can all get on the same page again.

I would suggest for your family that you consider letting your boys make a choice at breakfast, setting the tone for the day that they have had some control and responsibility. I'd also personally be much more comfortable, given kids' varying activity levels and growth spurts and everything with some freely available snacks, but I recognize it doesn't work for everyone. However I'm not sure that restricting snack time works well once it becomes a big issue.

In exchange, I think your boys need to work a bit on their restaurant manners and participate in the other meals in a reasonably civilized way.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

OP, we have milder versions of these same issues periodically (not eating meals that I know are acceptable tastewise, gorging on $$ prepared snack foods that are not mealtime foods in this house, sneaking into the fridge and cupboards to take food items that they KNOW are not allowed as snacks, such a chocolate chips). My kids are three and five.

Here's what works for us:

1. Have eating guidelines that EVERYBODY respects. If kids are expected to eat oatmeal for breakfast or else fast until lunch, then any adults who are home at breakfast time should also be sitting down eating. If kids can't snack in the hour or two before dinner, neither can adults. If postdinner snacking is not allowed for kids, then it's not allowed for adults. You aren't trying to impose _arbitrary rules for the kids_. You are trying to create a _healthy food culture for all members of the household_.

2. Don't stock the objects of their current fixations. For example, in your shoes I would not be buying any cheese sticks, and I'd TELL THEM WHY - "You guys have been sneaking into the fridge and gorging on those things instead of eating your meals." Then buy them again in a month or so and see what happens.

3. Manners, manners, manners. My kids didn't eat things off the floor in restaurants, but they told both me and any other adult who served them, in detail, exactly what they didn't like about the food. That was a big struggle for a long time and SO INFURIATING. But on the plus side, my husband and I have developed some lovely table manners while modeling the correct social response to being served food.







A rallying cry around here is "nobody will force you to eat Item X. But you are not allowed to tell your dining companions that you don't like Item X. Talk about something else."

4. Others have mentioned this, but the free-eating zone is just a lifesaver for us. A basket of apples, a loaf of bread, a box of raisins, whatever works for you. For my kids, this has cut down HUGELY on the sneaking - it's not like I was REFUSING them apples when they asked for one out of the cupboard, but they prefer to get them on their own without consulting me, so I put a basket on a table that they can reach. As they are so young, I have to take it up a couple of hours before dinner if I want them to come to the table hungry (and that's huge for me, if a person is sitting down to the evening meal and they are NOT hungry, something is seriously messed up with how they ate that day).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Having seen all these bad habits - fixating on specific foods and eating multiple portions per day to the exclusion of other kinds of nourishment, in-depth criticism of meals served in a social context, gorging on processed foods outside of meal hours - going on amongst adults in my husband's family, I realize what the consequences are going to be if I don't teach my kids healthy food habits and instill in them good food manners. So I totally sympathize with you on this. As Americans, we don't have a workable set of healthy eating rules that are enforced by our entire culture. So you have to create a mini-culture inside your own home. It's a huge and ongoing task.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
If a child is raiding the fridge, I'd ask why, not lock up the fridge. Is the child hungry? Is the child always wanting the same thing? Is it healthy food?

If it's about sweets, I just wouldn't have sweets in the house. And we really don't very often as dh and I have trouble not giving into the temptation of sweets as well. Actually dd is better about that than we are.

But if it's healthy food, I'd let my dd have what she wants. If one healthy food were too expensive, I'd buy a different one. But I wouldn't limit amount. If she's hungry, she gets to eat.

Yep, that's what my parents did first, they just stopped buying treats for _anyone_, (which was pretty unfair on those in the family that _weren't_ raiding the fridge and pantry out at night and who liked having fruit roll ups for their lunches, and yogurt for a snack, or ice cream occassionally), but then there were raids of milk, a whole gallon of milk GONE, whole boxes of cereal disappearing, entire blocks of cheese POOF! A whole bag of apples or an entire bunch of grapes and this was AFTER having eaten a huge plate of lasagna and garlic bread and drinking a gallon of milk between the four of us at dinner.

Were we hungry? Maybe. Didn't help that some of us were smoking giant amounts of pot after my parents went to bed. Mostly though it was boredom, and accessibility. Sometimes my brother and I would have eating competitions, not because we were hungry but because we were _competitive_. We'd literally sit down on a Saturday morning with a bowl and a gallon jug of milk each and a box of cereal and see who could eat the most. Our parents thought they had raised us to have enough sense not to do something like that. I too was making myself snacks at the age of four. Heck I was making dinner for me and my sister at the age of 7. We knew about food and hunger cues, but then we did it anyway. For fun, and for my one sister it seemed more often than not that it was just plain to get a rise out of them.

If you have talked, and lectured, and just not bought those things, and tried everything else?

I guess I just don't like to say that my parents must have been monsters for resorting to desperate measures, when I simply do not know what I would do if I were their shoes. At some point you have to draw a line in the sand and protect the rights of the other people in the family to have nice things once in a while, (eta: or any food full stop) don't you?


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

I'm seeing a shocking lack of respect for children here.

Maybe the OP's children didn't eat their oatmeal because they weren't hungry at that hour. Does that mean they are not allowed to be hungry later? Not everyone is hungry at the conventional breakfast time. You cannot control another person's hunger.

Or maybe they just don't like oatmeal. Are children not allowed to have likes and dislikes? I hate oatmeal, and would not eat it. Is this a "privilege" that only adults have? The right to NOT eat food you don't like?

Unless a parent is prepared to restrain her child and force the food down his throat, a parent will never win a battle over food. Never. You make think you have it under your control, but as is seen the in OP, the child will find a way to assert themselves.

And they should. It's _their_ body.

I would no more try to control what my child eats than I would try to control when they breathe, urinate, or any other body function. It is their little body, not mine.

There is no food in my home that my children cannot eat. I buy food that is healthy for all of us. My children are free to eat as much as they want, whenever they want.

Who cares if their "appetite is spoiled" for dinner? Then their dinner was whatever they ate previously. I'm not going to tell my kids "you are only allowed to be hungry at 5pm, because someone, somewhere, arbitrarily decided that dinner should be 5 or 6pm.

We eat when we are hungry. None of my children have any weight problems and are all very healthy.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 
Yep, that's what my parents did first, they just stopped buying treats for _anyone_, (which was pretty unfair on those in the family that _weren't_ raiding the fridge and pantry out at night and who liked having fruit roll ups for their lunches, and yogurt for a snack, or ice cream occassionally), but then there were raids of milk, a whole gallon of milk GONE, whole boxes of cereal disappearing, entire blocks of cheese POOF! A whole bag of apples or an entire bunch of grapes and this was AFTER having eaten a huge plate of lasagna and garlic bread and drinking a gallon of milk between the four of us at dinner.

Were we hungry? Maybe. Didn't help that some of us were smoking giant amounts of pot after my parents went to bed. Mostly though it was boredom, and accessibility. Sometimes my brother and I would have eating competitions, not because we were hungry but because we were _competitive_. We'd literally sit down on a Saturday morning with a bowl and a gallon jug of milk each and a box of cereal and see who could eat the most. Our parents thought they had raised us to have enough sense not to do something like that. I too was making myself snacks at the age of four. Heck I was making dinner for me and my sister at the age of 7. We knew about food and hunger cues, but then we did it anyway. For fun, and for my one sister it seemed more often than not that it was just plain to get a rise out of them.

If you have talked, and lectured, and just not bought those things, and tried everything else?

I guess I just don't like to say that my parents must have been monsters for resorting to desperate measures, when I simply do not know what I would do if I were their shoes. At some point you have to draw a line in the sand and protect the rights of the other people in the family to have nice things once in a while, (eta: or any food full stop) don't you?

Yes but that is not happening here/


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
Yes but that is not happening here/

true, it was a side bar discussion.


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## Delicateflower (Feb 1, 2009)

What happens if you put bread on the table for every meal? Put cheese on the plate as part of the meal? You say you're making kid-friendly meals, but if they're not food your kids like then they're not kid friendly.

Have you read Ellyn Satter "Child of Mine: Feeding with love and good sense"?


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 
but then there were raids of milk, a whole gallon of milk GONE, whole boxes of cereal disappearing, entire blocks of cheese POOF! A whole bag of apples or an entire bunch of grapes and this was AFTER having eaten a huge plate of lasagna and garlic bread and drinking a gallon of milk between the four of us at dinner.

Were there teenagers involved? Teens need waaaayyy more food than most people realize.

My little brother, who is about 6' and weighs 140 soaking wet on a heavy day, would go through 2-3 gallons of milk by himself in a week when I we were both living at home. And that's when he was 12.

I've had a number of male friends describe eating a couple of large pizzas after school and then asking their mom if dinner was ready yet, and then going out for a hamburger after eating dinner. And I've seen pictures of them from that time and I swear their waists were hardly larger than my thigh is now.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Were there teenagers involved? Teens need waaaayyy more food than most people realize.

My little brother, who is about 6' and weighs 140 soaking wet on a heavy day, would go through 2-3 gallons of milk by himself in a week when I we were both living at home. And that's when he was 12.

I've had a number of male friends describe eating a couple of large pizzas after school and then asking their mom if dinner was ready yet, and then going out for a hamburger after eating dinner. And I've seen pictures of them from that time and I swear their waists were hardly larger than my thigh is now.

She said they were smoking weed. That changes everything. LOL


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Were there teenagers involved? Teens need waaaayyy more food than most people realize.

My little brother, who is about 6' and weighs 140 soaking wet on a heavy day, would go through 2-3 gallons of milk by himself in a week when I we were both living at home. And that's when he was 12.

I've had a number of male friends describe eating a couple of large pizzas after school and then asking their mom if dinner was ready yet, and then going out for a hamburger after eating dinner. And I've seen pictures of them from that time and I swear their waists were hardly larger than my thigh is now.

I know, and my brother was 6ft tall at the age of 14...add

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
She said they were smoking weed. That changes everything. LOL

And you have a seriously hungry eating machine!


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## Multimomma (Jan 25, 2008)

Yay teens. my 14 yo ate a the troop leaders house last night, homemade chicken parmesan, salad, fresh baked bread, and homemade oatmeal cookies for dessert. The leader told me that with ten boys, she cooked 30 lbs of chicken, eight quarts of salad, a flat of tomatoes, five loaves of bread, and five batches of cookies. DS had two servings of everything himself. Then on the drive home asked if we could go through the drive through and bought (with his money) a quarter pounder meal.

Kids need way more than adults, even 7yo. I wanted to ask the OP about serving sizes.

About kids not eating what is prepared, what we have in our house is a monthly dinner calendar (which not only reduces some snacking because they can anticipate what's coming up, it also saves money because the kids know what is going to be cooked and will ask if x for for Tuesday night's dinner), anyway, the monthly calendar is made by the entire family, not just mom and dad. So the kids have just as much say in what is being served. As for breakfast and lunch, that is very flexible, and kids can serve themselves something else if they don't like it. Even my four year old is pretty good about helping herself.


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## Multimomma (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 
I don't disagree here, of course SOMETHING needs to change, and I assumed that's why the Op was here to begin with. I don't how ever agree that food should be wasted just for the sake of "making little johnny happy".


But if they aren't eating at all, then her current plan wastes MORE food than just asking them to help plan meals, and help prepare, rather than saying "Here's the food I cooked for you, it's made to fit MY desires, eat it or be hungry"

And why in the world can Johnny not be happy with food? If my friend came over, and didn't prefer oatmeal, would I not offer her something else? Why would I treat someone I LOVE any differently?


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Multimomma* 
About kids not eating what is prepared, what we have in our house is a monthly dinner calendar (which not only reduces some snacking because they can anticipate what's coming up, it also saves money because the kids know what is going to be cooked and will ask if x for for Tuesday night's dinner), anyway, the monthly calendar is made by the entire family, not just mom and dad. So the kids have just as much say in what is being served.









mine are only 4 and 1 month, but that is an AWESOME







. I'm sooo stealing that!


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomaYula* 
I post that my kids are _eating off the floor_, going into strangers' fridges, and sneaking fruit into their clothes and the answer is that it's because I'm labeling them?










I am posting here after months of making various meals only to have them refuse to take even one bite and then gorge themselves on contraband snacks when I turn my back.

No, I do not think I am underestimating their palates.

You may not be underestimating their palates but you are underestimating their hunger. Meals are not kid friendly if the kids refuse to eat them. Apples and cheese are healthy snacks - I cannot imagine limiting my daughter's access to fresh fruit and other healthy snacks - she is almost 8 years old and can definitely eat more than me on one of her hungry days!


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## SneakyPie (Jan 13, 2002)

Every time I see a thread about children EATING, posted in the Discipline forum, it makes me want to cry.

Your children are hungry. Please let them eat.

I could frankly not care less whether my son is eating at "mealtimes" or getting his nutrition through "snacks." If your children are able to nourish themselves without even inconveniencing you, I don't see why they have to match their times of hunger to when you feel like cooking. If they don't eat the stir-fry (or whatever) but eat bread, fruit, and cheese, I just cannot see the problem.

Feed your children. You said yourself that they are hungry.


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

I will say I do think there are times where it is ok to lock the fridge, like we do right now. It is not to prevent the kids from eating or getting anything, as my older two know how to undo the child lock on the fridge.

We do put the child lock on now, because my 2 year old thinks it is fun to go open the door and just sit there with it open all the time. And she will dig through the drawers/shelves and make a mess. I don't restrict her eating, but do want to make sure that she is not ruining food by letting it get warm from the door being open, or breaking the fridge because she has not learned she has to shut the drawers yet when she tries to close the door.

I total think that a child knows when they are hungry and should be able to eat within reason.

What my youngest son did today was not appropriate and he was told so. He took his 2 yo sister's sippy of juice and drank it all down while we were getting in the car. He was told he gets no more juice today, because that was not his juice to drink. If he was thirsty he could have had some water, which I always keep a bottle or two of in the car, for such emergencies.


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SneakyPie* 
Every time I see a thread about children EATING, posted in the Discipline forum, it makes me want to cry.

Your children are hungry. Please let them eat.

I could frankly not care less whether my son is eating at "mealtimes" or getting his nutrition through "snacks." If your children are able to nourish themselves without even inconveniencing you, I don't see why they have to match their times of hunger to when you feel like cooking. If they don't eat the stir-fry (or whatever) but eat bread, fruit, and cheese, I just cannot see the problem.

Feed your children. You said yourself that they are hungry.

ITA. I've had days when I'm not hungry for one meal, but am starving for the next. Feed them if they are hungry. Kids need snacks - they have small stomachs and huge appetites at that age. One cheese stick isn't going to get them through the 5 or 6 hours between lunch and dinner.

And *yeah that* to everything betsyj said. A kid should never, ever have to "sneak" an apple. That's so sad.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 







mine are only 4 and 1 month, but that is an AWESOME







. I'm sooo stealing that!

















:


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## Kreeblim (Dec 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 
Yeah, see, I can TOTALLY see this happening, in some strange Carol Burnet skit type of way....moms all over the place trying to manage a few kids, she's a bit flustered, and the oldest boys decide to "mess" with mom, instead of waiting or asking, they decide to start acting up and doing things like eating off the floor or asking strangers, things they KNOW will get moms attention...... I guess I just have a hard imagining that a mom actually limits her kids over all food intake, and that chicFila thing was more of a manors issue, with the boys either not wanting to be patient to wait for mom to get more food or maybe they just didn't like the answer they got which could have been wait til we get home, or no jhonny this food isn't the best food for you, you can have a salad off the menu if your still hungry...or what not.

Considering one of the other examples was a child hiding an apple in his pants, it really doesn't seem like this is attention getting behavior since he didn't want mom to know he had the food. Granted, kids do weird things to get attention (oh if only I had time to write a book on it...) but the OP even says that it's clearly hunger related. So while the example above is possible, I don't see any indication of that scenario in the OPs posting.

That's not to say there isn't a manners issue here, but I think it's more that the child needs to learn that telling mom he's still hungrey instead of just grabbing stuff off the floor is the more acceptible course of action. That does require mom to take him seriously though, and not just assume he's full and asking for food "to get attention". If mom disregaurds those needs then he'll stop asking and will just get better at hiding it when he picks up food to eat off the floor.

Quote:

HOpe that made sense, I was up late working on my paper....
Ah "academic insomnia"...I miss those days


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## SquishyKitty (Jun 10, 2005)

OP, I think you might be underestimating how much a growing boy can eat. DS can out-eat more than DH and I combined when he's going through a growth spurt. He eats as much as DH when he's not.

He can eat as much fruit, veggies, yogurt, and cheese sticks as he wants. Crackers within reason, and popcorn too.

Make a special "Snack Box" for them in the fridge. Fill it with foods they can snack on whenever they want, and then let them know they can snack from there whenever they feel the urge. Get them involved in filling up the box.

You're making this into a battle when it really doesn't need to be. Growing kids can eat a ridiculous amount of food. Give them the right foods and let them eat. They'll probably taper off when their current growth spurt tapers.


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## SquishyKitty (Jun 10, 2005)

Also, my son hates his food mixed. He doesn't eat casseroles, stir fry, or any type of mixed up food.

He likes everything separate. Once I figured that out, I stopped getting frustrated when he wouldn't eat anything I cooked.


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

I only skimmed through the thread.

My kid is only 5, but we deal with SOME of the same stuff. He won't eat what I make him but an hour late he's in the cabinets looking for food. I do keep some junk in the house and he goes for that. Some days he won't eat until 3 or 4 pm. And that's when I make things he LIKES. Other days he does ok.

I do have to limit his intake of some stuff because too much dairy, especially cheese, and he gets constipated. He'll drink too much juice. He'll eat nothing but corn dogs all day if I let him. So I DO have to limit things.

But fruits and veggies are a free-for-all. Even if it's just before dinner. He's not going to fill up on a carrot, ya know? So I let him have the carrot.

It's embarrassing when I try to feed him all day and when grandma comes over he begs her for a happy meal because he's "so hungry!".







I'll admit to taking some responsibility for him being accustomed to crappy food, but I completely revamped our diets 6 months ago and his dad still feeds him crap every day...lunchables, mcdonald's, corn dogs, fish sticks, ect. I try to feed him at least one really good meal a day but usually give in and just feed him a damn corn dog when he won't eat.









I understand being frustrated when people (even kids) won't eat what you cook. Especially when you try hard to make sure it's something everyone likes. I don't really know the answer. On one hand, I understand wanting to have control over what I eat. I wouldn't want to be told what to eat day after day. On the other hand, it's disrespectful for kids to turn up their noses at *everything*. Not to mention it's not practical for most people's budgets to let their kids chow down on the snacky stuff. I grew up just eating what my mom cooked. Sometimes I didn't like it. Sometimes my mom would let me get something else. But that happened like twice a month, not everyday.

I'd start with letting them have a say in some of the meals. If you tend to decide day to day what to eat that should be pretty easy.....let one of them decide breakfast one day, the other the next. Then you get to decide a day. And so on. My kid does better if I let him have a say in what we make.

I do let DS get something else if he doesn't like dinner, but it has to be something healthy. He cannot live on PB sandwiches and cheese. Well, he could, but that's not healthy, despite what some people may believe. We need more variety than that to be healthy.


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

I think there might be a twin issue here, too. As in, two kids the same age can scheme up stuff in a way that a single child of any age cannot do. One kid under the table at Chikfila is weird. Two kids under the table at Chikfila is, somehow, not so weird. Partner in Crime, as it were.
How about adding another meal to the day for them, something of at least 400-500 calories and desireable - a delish sandwich, special microwave meal ($1.25 on sale), cheese and crackers. Make it a Month of March thing, so it has a beginning, middle, and end, and see if that solves anything. If you make it microwave meals - teaches them about sales, shopping (they should pick them out), teaches them microwave skills, and tries to solve a "problem" with calories. Total cost: 30 days x 2 kids x $1.25 = $75.


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## spottiew (Jan 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoomaYula* 
I post that my kids are _eating off the floor_, going into strangers' fridges, and sneaking fruit into their clothes and the answer is that it's because I'm labeling them?










I am posting here after months of making various meals only to have them refuse to take even one bite and then gorge themselves on contraband snacks when I turn my back.

No, I do not think I am underestimating their palates.

I can tell you what I have to do... stop buying things that I don't want mine to have. He would live all day on crackes- so no more crackers in home. If he was in someone else's kitchen on his own (he's 5, he doesn't do this yet), we would have to not go there for a while. Or restaurants where he ate off floors- tho I will admit to liking floor food at one age... This is not a fabulous solutoin, but it's what I have tried. I also made up food group cards, but he doesn't love them.


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## bjerme (Nov 13, 2009)

If your children are going to the extremes you say they are to get food, something is definitely "wrong" ... and not with the children.

You admit your children are hungry... feed them more. Problem solved.


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## Minxie (Apr 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 







but you did see that my son _does_ self regulate, and I was simply saying that IF he started to suddenly just eat all those treats behind my back I MIGHT resort to that? If my child suddenly started raiding the fridge as my brother and sisters and I did, I cannot really say what I would do. We teach them everything we can, but at some point they may just do what they WANT instead of what you have taught them, and I don't know about you, but I think it's important to respect the rights and needs of the _rest_ of the family, too.


No, I didn't; my apologies. I saw the portion where you said you _would_ lock up the fridge like your parents did if your child started sneaking food. I think it is important to respect the needs and rights of all family members but I would seriously have to question why my child is sneaking food, especially healthy foods like the apple that the OP's son had.

For the OP:

As a point of reference, my four-year-old is going through a growth spurt and ate in one day this week:

Breakfast - 1/2 grapefruit, 1/2 cup strawberries, 1 whole English Muffin with preserves

On the drive to school - sausage, egg, and cheese on a biscuit with OJ (Dunkin Donuts)

Snack at school

Lunch - Homemade "Lunchable"
He was dying for a Lunchable "'cause that's what Bailey brings" so ham and cheese and some crackers; also 1 cup strawberries and kiwi, 1/2 cup green peppers and 1 carton of milk

Snack at school

Snack after school - Doughnut from the morning trip and milk

Dinner - steak with asparagus and mushrooms

Also he drinks about 20 ozs of water throughout the day; he has his own water bottle that goes to school with him.

He's in the 97th percentile for weight (plumping up for his growth spurt) and 95th for height. He's not slender but not stocky either; he's proportional height and weight-wise but he's just big. He always has been; 10 lbs, 11 ozs at birth. ;-)

Minxie


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## Minxie (Apr 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 
I thought this was cute







Do you have a toaster oven?

Thanks. We do but he uses the toaster to make his toast. He isn't allowed to use the toaster oven yet as it is more oven and less toaster.









Minxie


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## elisheva (May 30, 2006)

Ok the OP seems to have dropped off the face of the Earth...


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Are there any updates from the OP on this?


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

I keep a bowl of apples on the table at all times and when Clementines were cheap we had crates and crates of them. My kids are fed healthy food all day long (mostly) and the only time I regulate is where sugar is concerned b/c Dd reacts badly to too much. DS doesn't but to keep life fair we all follow the same intake. So even in that my kids can regulate their sugar and decide if the cookie being offered by a neighbor at noon is worth giving up ice cream after dinner (or whatever)
I don't even really care how much of something my kids eat. I always say, kids are warmer then we are and are hungrier b/c even when sitting their bodies are working very hard at growing.
I don't make them wear a sweater and I don't make them eat (I do make bring a sweater and I do carry snacks..you know just in case







)


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