# Cesarean Section Support Thread September 2005



## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

This thread is for support only and not to debate the necessity of cesarean birth. This is a place to moan, complain, bitch, mourn, share the joy, thoughtful decision, cesarean birthplans, etc. and all are welcome!


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

Well, I'm currently eight weeks post c-sec. I haven't had any pain in I believe over a month. Although I still haven't stopped bleeding yet. I do believe that I am on my period, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this will end soon!


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## PaytonsMom (Aug 31, 2005)

checking in...

had my section almost a year ago after "failure to progress" and presence of merconium after 6 hours of laboring with pitocin (18 hours after application of cervidil)


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## greenmansions (Feb 16, 2005)

continuation of thought from Aug thread...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soccerchic21*
Make sure that you have a SOLID support team to stay with you in the hospital. Make your voice known BEFORE the c-section how important breastfeeding is to you and how you want that baby latched on to you as soon as possible.

You will be drugged up and shaking probably. I couldn't physically nurse DS without someone helping me for at least 8 hours after surgery. DO NOT let the nurses take your baby out of the room. Just have your partner or support person take care of the baby. Tell your support people this too. You might be too out of it depending on how much they drug you up to say anything.


DH was with me most of the time to care for DS, but he had to leave the second night I was in the hospital. The nurse just put DS in bed with me so I could care for/nurse him more easily. I was a little nervous about it - first baby and all - but it went well that way.

Regarding the shaking, is there anything that can be done to prevent that? I had bad shakes for a couple of days and would like to avoid that if I end up with a CS again...

I am still trying to decide whether to try a VBAC or just schedule a cs - not sure yet. My main goal is really to avoid any BFing problems that I had last time - while I would like a vaginal birth I am not hell bent on it at this point. And no signs of pre-eclampsia so far in this pg (week 17) but that might put a wrench in any plans I make.

My OB will let me do what I want, tho she would prefer I schedule a cs because she says there is less risk of infection that way, and they can control the anesthesia effects better - last time I ended up with a general b/c the epidural was not working anymore - I had been on it for awhile in labor. Anybody have any info/thoughts on this?


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## mommamiagal (Jan 6, 2003)

hi. checking in. May I ask what the shaking is from? reaction to the epidural or spinal? does benadril work for the itching, with duramorph?

Maria


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I had shaking after the surgery. It didn't last very long with any of my sections. I also felt very cold. As far as I can tell, it's purely the result of shock - once you stabilize, the shaking goes away.


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

greenmansions - I had ALOT of shaking right after surgery also, but it too only lasted about an hour. Once I was out of recovery the shakes never returned. I'm not sure if part of it is because of the drugs you're under (I had an epidural) and or the stress and shock of the whole laboring process. You might want to discuss that with your doctor with which ever labor style you decide on.


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

Does anyone else have this problem? and or does it ever go away?

I labored extensivley before I had my c-sec, and ever since it hurts to sit in one position for any period of time. Unless it's a really big cushy chair. I'm not sure if my tailbone might be broken, brusied or what.? But does it ever get any better?


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## egoldber (Nov 18, 2002)

Benadryl does often work for the itching. Unfortunately, I am extremely sensitive to Benadryl. More than 1/2 a teaspoon of children's Benadryl liquid completely knocks me out







so I can't take in sufficient amounts to make a difference with the itching.

And I agree that the shakes are a bit from shock. Mine seemed to come during the night. I just seemed to be extremely cold and warm blankets and a heating pad helped a lot. Actually, a heating pad on my incision felt REALLY good in general.


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## chantald (Oct 26, 2004)

I remeber reading that the itching and shaking (along with maternal and infant fever) are common side effects of an epidural. I had bad shakes but not any itching after my first c/s. I had had 3 epidural doses by the time I had my surgery...
I had no shaking at all this time around, I had a spinal 10 minutes before my second c/s. No itching either...

Chantal


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Subscribing

I didn't have any itching or shaking after my section.







None at all. The only things I'd want to change with regard to pain control would be whatever put me to sleep after the section (I passed out for an hour) because I'd rather spend that time awake with my new baby, and I'd like to get oral medication sooner. I've been addicted to opiates in the past, so I prefer to minimize their use. They wanted to give me morphine the next day because I wasn't supposed to have anything orally yet, but I refused it and made them ask the doctor to let me have something oral (percocet, I think that's what I ended up with).

Oh! Someone said that percocet is a codeine derivative on the other thread. That's not really the way it works; the opiate in percocet (oxycodone) is related to codeine, but they're both derived from opium (hence the name "opiates"). Heroin, morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone and codiene are all opiates. Percocet is oxycodone and tylenol, percodan is oxycodone and aspirin, lorcet & vicodin are both hydrocodone and tylenol, and tylenol #3 is tylenol with codiene.


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## soccerchic21 (Jan 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greenmansions*
My OB will let me do what I want, tho she would prefer I schedule a cs because she says there is less risk of infection that way, and they can control the anesthesia effects better - last time I ended up with a general b/c the epidural was not working anymore - I had been on it for awhile in labor. Anybody have any info/thoughts on this?

I don't agree with that at all. There are plenty of women here who had infections after their c-sections. That is one reason I was horribly scared of getting one. I am not sure what the percentage of people who actually get infections afterward are but I hear they are horrible to deal with. I think you are at more risk of getting an infection of you have gestational diabetes though.

You are very fortunate to have an OB that is letting you make the decision. That is very fortunate. It seems like more and more OBs won't do VBAC anymore.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I had an infection after this section, but not with either of my previous ones. I think mine was quite minor, as wound infections go...but it still took four and a half weeks for the incision to close, and required quite a bit of extra attention. It was definitely not my idea of fun.

I only had the shakes badly with my second section (mind you, I was out for 12 hours after my first), and the itching was worst with that one. But, I don't think they were related, as the itching sidn't really start until after the shaking had stopped.


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## soccerchic21 (Jan 6, 2004)

Checking in...

I had a late 4 week checkup with my midwife this week. I have been dying to talk to her about my birth and what she thinks went on to lead up to the c-seciton. There was a lot of crying. I feel a bit better.

She did reassure me that I was indeed very strong (8 hours of labor on pitocin naturally got complete water broke back to 7cm hit transition again). I was feeling like maybe if I didn't ask for the epi and got back into the water that things would have turned out differently. From the notes that she had though she said it looked like we did all we could.

I am supposed to go back in a month and we requested the documents from the hospital and we are going to go over those at the next appt. The way it looks now is that Jake was indeed "stuck" and the c-section was the only way to get him out. I still can't help but feel like I didn't do enough. But when they tell you that his heart rate isn't standing the labor or pushing what are you supposed to do?

I can't wait for my next local ICAN meeting. I wish they were more than once a month. DH was saying that maybe I should see a therapist to talk about my feelings. I am thinking it might help. I got a few names of people who deal with birth trauma.

Again this past week yet again someone I knew had a great vaginal birth. We saw them last night and her baby was 9 days old and I just kept staring at his vaginally birthed cone head feeling jealous. I hate that. I made an excuse about needing to leave so we could get out of there.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm sorry, Sarah. I have that problem, too. My sister's got four kids and all but one were birthed vaginally (the fourth was a twin, who dropped transverse after her brother delivered vaginally). My SIL's four were all delivered vaginally. Every time the subject of having kids comes up in our family, I just want to hide under the table or something.

I hope it gets a little easier to cope with. It sounds as though you're midwife appointment eased the psychological pain at least a little.


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## PaytonsMom (Aug 31, 2005)

I still haev jealousy twinges whenever I hear of someone having their baby vaginally. C-sections are awful. First you get the emotional pain of knowing you've failed, and then the physical pain, adn then the emotional pain comes right back and slaps you in the face.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PaytonsMom*
...adn then the emotional pain comes right back and slaps you in the face.









...especially when ignorant people make insensitive comments.


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## Iriemama96 (Jun 24, 2005)

Thought I would stop in and say hello. I am 1 week past my due date , and watching my hopes of a VBAC slowly slip away. I am not even the smallest bit dialated yet ...bummer. Although today is my Birthday, though it would be funny if little man decided to come today. Anyways, I hope everyone is healing well and enjoying there beautifull babies!!


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## greenmansions (Feb 16, 2005)

I get envious of moms who birthed vaginally when I see them up and walking around a day later as if nothing much had happened to them physically. My neighbor just had her second baby vaginally on a Friday, came home Saturday and hosted a houseful of people on Sunday. She was perky the whole time, nursed her baby, chatted with friends happily, etc.

Whereas I barely left the house for nearly a month after my c/s and only had whatever family member was staying with me at the time in my house. I am not sure how much of my feeling so lousy was due to the c/s vs. recovering from pre-eclampsia, but I felt pretty crappy for a long time. I'd sure like to have things be better with this baby, but not sure if VBAC attempt or scheduled c/s is the answer.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greenmansions*
I get envious of moms who birthed vaginally when I see them up and walking around a day later as if nothing much had happened to them physically.

I see women on mainstream boards saying that's what they were like after their sections. It's one of the reasons I avoid the mainstream boards - I just feel even worse. It's like I failed to give birth vaginally, and _then_ I failed to recover on top of it.

But, I have to say that I've known quite a few women with c-sections offline...and _none_ of them were walking around like that in the first few days.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greenmansions*
I get envious of moms who birthed vaginally when I see them up and walking around a day later as if nothing much had happened to them physically. My neighbor just had her second baby vaginally on a Friday, came home Saturday and hosted a houseful of people on Sunday. She was perky the whole time, nursed her baby, chatted with friends happily, etc.


Quote:

I see women on mainstream boards saying that's what they were like after their sections. It's one of the reasons I avoid the mainstream boards - I just feel even worse. It's like I failed to give birth vaginally, and then I failed to recover on top of it.
I guess that's me. I'm not trying to pass judgement on you, or say that you "failed to recover;" when I talk about how quickly I recovered from my c-section vs. my vaginal delivery, I'm only trying to point out that even here, even in this thread, there's this idealization of vaginal delivery that goes on and quite frankly in my experience, it's not necessarily something to be jealous of. I grew up hearing how easy and natural childbirth was, how it hurt like hell but the pain was short and therefore tolerable. My mother had a grand total of about an hour and a half of labor in five deliveries. My sister had two quick, easy births. Neither of them did much by way of preparation, they just had a very easy time of it all.

I suppose that I should count myself lucky; after my son's birth (the VDFH) my mother and sister just stopped talking about labor and delivery. While niether of them had an experience that even came close to mine, they both witnessed parts of my labor. They saw me in agonizing pain from preterm labor, shaking from terbutaline; my sister got to listen to me scream from down the hall while a team of doctors and nurses stuck a suction cup on BeanBean's head and dragged him out. Then they watched me have to be rolled in a wheelchair to see my son nearly a day after he'd been born, and be so weak from magnesium sulfate that I couldn't even push him back up when he started to slide from my shoulder. They watched and they kept their mouths shut, and neither one of them will discuss birth in my presence. I never hear about what I should or shouldn't have done differently, because both of them know that they have never experienced anything even remotely like the pain that I had. Both of them will say that even in the throes of labor, even in transition the worst pains they had were not as bad as the cramps they had when they started breastfeeding. I laughed my ass off at those cramps-- never in a million years did they compete with labor!

Quote:

Whereas I barely left the house for nearly a month after my c/s and only had whatever family member was staying with me at the time in my house. I am not sure how much of my feeling so lousy was due to the c/s vs. recovering from pre-eclampsia, but I felt pretty crappy for a long time. I'd sure like to have things be better with this baby, but not sure if VBAC attempt or scheduled c/s is the answer.
This was me after my vaginal delivery-- only it was more like two months. I couldn't walk upright for a week, and even then could only do it for a short period of time. I vote for the pre-ecclampsia. I felt like







on a stick for a solid two months, and in fact didn't begin to feel like a human being again for nearly six.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I don't think anybody, except my sister, is trying to pass judgment on me. _I'm_ the one who feels as though I failed. I just prefer to avoid reading about people hopping out of bed 12 hours after their sections...I wanted to more than I can say, and it just wasn't possible.

And, I'm very sorry you went through a delivery like that. I'm well aware that people have horrible vaginal deliveries sometimes.

I guess it just seems to me as though the comparison that's always made is a nightmarish vaginal delivery with complications being compared to an uncomplicated c-section. Not all vaginal deliveries have complications and not all c-sections lack them. I'd just like to know what I'm talking about - I have no idea what childbirth is like, for good or for bad, and rightly or wrongly I feel ripped off.


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## greenmansions (Feb 16, 2005)

Wow, Rynna, that sounds awful. I have heard of bad deliveries like that, and my ex-boss had one along those lines. I guess I don't really idealize vaginal delivery, but am trying to figure out what is going to leave me in the best shape afterward to nurse and care for my new baby and be there, as always, for my son. Everyone's story puts a perspective on it that is helpful in some way.

My mom also had relatively easy labors, particularly with my sister - mom barely made it to the hospital in time. She has always said she'd rather have a baby than go to the dentist (she has bad teeth) because it's not that bad and you get to go home with a baby.

My sister had an emergency c/s with her daughter and then a scheduled with her twins as her placenta was degrading at 38 weeks. (7 pounder and 8 pounder, can you imagine?) She felt that the second c/s in particular went really well and that she recovered pretty quickly. Other moms also say that the second c/s is easier to recover from - maybe it's b/c they were scheduled so the moms weren't pooped out from laboring beforehand.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm not trying to make your decisions any more difficult - but I found my scheduled section without labour to be the worst of my three...despite the first being an emergency, and the incision becoming infected with the third. I'll never allow a scheduled section again.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
I guess it just seems to me as though the comparison that's always made is a nightmarish vaginal delivery with complications being compared to an uncomplicated c-section. Not all vaginal deliveries have complications and not all c-sections lack them.

In my opinion, this is the only comparison that makes any sense on this board, where vaginal delivery is held up as the epitome of womanhood, as well as the only proper, reasonable way to start being an attached parent. We have to have a disclaimer at the top of this thread every time we start a new one, because if it wasn't there it would be chock full of "If you had just done x, like I did, you wouldn't have needed a c-section" or, better still, "I've read all about situations like yours where women had their babies at home." Ask for information on c-sections, and you'll get all sorts of advice for avoiding them and reasons that you should. Personal stories of babies being cut when their mothers were cut, and all kinds of other horror stories. Maybe, if you're lucky, you'll get a link to this thread or get some decent, balanced information but most of what you'll get will be about how women who have c-sections will have a really difficult time breastfeeding, if they can do it at all, etc, etc,





















If you don't make it absolutely clear that not every vaginal delivery is a cakewalk and not every c-section results in days/months/years of miserable effects, people here just won't listen to anything that you have to say.

I think that the problem (on MDC in particular) is that most people assume that vaginal deliveries are uncomplicated and that c-sections are traumatic. When I tell someone in real life that BooBah was born by c-section, they don't immediately jump to the conclusion that there was trauma, but if I say that here, they do. If I say only that BeanBean was delivered vaginally, women here assume that it was easy, straightforward, and that any complications that arose were the direct result of a doctor's interference and therefore easily dismissed. Neither is true. There is support for women who've had traumatic birth experiences to be found here-- as long as they delivered by c-section. If you had a traumatic vaginal delivery and you don't say straight off that you could have solved the whole thing by squatting in the woods and catching the baby yourself, then it's all your own fault anyway and noone is remotely sympathetic.

Okay, so maybe I'm still bitter about my son's birth and the complete lack of support to be found afterwards. Maybe it's not at all fair to compare a VDFH to an uncomplicated emergency c-section (is that an oxy moron?) but that is my experience. I think you're totally right to feel ripped off-- I also feel ripped off: I never had that easy, uncomplicated vaginal birth experience that I was raised to believe was my birthright.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I can certainly understand being bitter. Your experience sounds just awful. I come at it a little differently, as what I was looking for when I found this board was an acknowledgement that a c-section _is_ traumatic (or at least that it can be). I found a lot of places where people would tell me how horrible labour was, and how brutal vaginal deliveries are...but most of them treated c-sections as a cakewalk, and I've been emotionally demolished by mine. I _wanted_ people to assume there was trauma, I guess...

However, I don't assume that "vaginal" means "easy". I do think a lot of women go through worse than they should, because of the way their labour is managed. But, that doesn't mean there aren't legitimate horror stories about labour and vaginal births. Your experience would have been horrible to go through...I can't even imagine. I certainly wouldn't be wanting a repeat if I were you!

(I don't think "uncomplicated emergency c-section" is an oxymoron. If the surgery goes the way it's supposed to, and so does the recovery, then it's uncomplicated. My first two had no complications - my third was complicated by an infected incision...totally different, even though they were all surgeries.)


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

Iriemama96 -







to you mama. Please keep us updated on the arrival of your newest little one. I hope your L&D goes exactly as you are hoping.
Oh, and Happy Belated Birthday!


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## egoldber (Nov 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
I don't think "uncomplicated emergency c-section" is an oxymoron. If the surgery goes the way it's supposed to, and so does the recovery, then it's uncomplicated.

My emergency CS was uncomplicated in that sense. The surgery went fine, I recovered well and easily. In fact, the OB was shocked. He was positive I would have an infection since I had ruptured and placental stuff was all over my abdomen. But no issues at all with the surgery. You just never know.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *egoldber*
You just never know.

Very true. I've had three c-sections and I behaved the same way during each recovery. Two of them were even done by the same surgeon. I had no trace of trouble with the first two, but this time my incision became infected, and I've also lost most of my bladder sensation. It's not very predictable.


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## chantald (Oct 26, 2004)

Christina: sending you







!!!

Also sending all of you a big









Chantal


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Well, on the off chance that dh will change his mind about another baby, I emailed the local midwife. They can't take "high risk" pregnancies, which includes any woman with more than one c-section. So, my last hope of VBAC (slim in any case) just went out the window. My only possible option would be to go unassisted, and I'm just not comfortable enough to do that.

I guess after 12 years, I'm going to have get my mind wrapped around this, or I'm going to go nuts. I wish I didn't care.


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## soccerchic21 (Jan 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
I guess after 12 years, I'm going to have get my mind wrapped around this, or I'm going to go nuts. I wish I didn't care.

I hear you on that one. I have been thinking about the women out there that just don't mind getting c-sections but most of the women I have met haven't really researched the negative aspects of them. I guess that is why they say ignorance is bliss. I would really like to be blissful


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I don't know - I hated the fact that I'd had one before I really knew any of the risks to me or the baby. I think it was just a gut reaction about surgery. And, no matter what anybody says to me, I can't seem to get over the feeling that I failed or I'm defective or something.

I can't believe I have this many tears left...


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## matts_mamamama (Mar 19, 2004)

Hey all! I am home from having my son, *******, via c-section. He is doing wonderfully and I actually am doing pretty well myself EXCEPT for the allergic reaction I am having to the surgical adhesive.







Based on my experience last time, we thought it was the steri-strips that I was reacting to, but apparently, it is ANY adhesive on my belly (no reaction on my arms or legs!). So, I'm oozing and weeping and all together feeling icky and swollen "down there", but other than that, recovery is going well! I'm still doing the pain meds (he was born Thurs, 9/1 @ 1:56pm) but feeling pretty good. Going to cut down to one percocet starting tomorrow instead of the 2 (unless it's really bad, then I'll stick with 2).

The surgery itself went well - my dr was very reassuring and comforting, and I had a pretty good nursing staff for most of my stay (one nurse was a total ditz, but the others made up for it!). I got up as soon as possible and was walking around and eating as soon as they let me so I could get home.

Anyway, if anyone has any tips or hints about the adhesive thing, please let me know. Dr. says it basically just has to run its course...


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## ShellyK (Oct 14, 2003)

Hi, I'm reading in here for the first time. I had a planned c-section two years ago with my daughter, after planning a natural Bradley birth from the get-go, but she was breech and wouldn't turn despite two external versions and all the other tricks I could find to try...and it's funny. I still feel the need to explain why I had a c-section - defend it, really - even now - and even though I know it was the right thing to do. It turned out she was wrapped up tight in the cord, which was why she couldn't turn, and she probably wouldn't have ever been able to come out vaginally if I had tried. (Which I seriously considered despite the advice of my doc.)

Anyway, I wanted to share a little bit of my experience, but first, I want to give big hugs to the women here who had horrible labours and vaginal deliveries as well as the ones who had awful c-section experiences. I can only try to imagine what you went through - and I know it's one of those dark places that we get to and live through only when we really have to. I'm sorry for your loss of the birth experience you'd hoped for, and for the precious first hours of enjoying your childrens' lives with joy.

So, anyway, back to my story. I had my heart set on a Bradley birth. I knew I wanted my baby with me 100% of the time we were in the hospital, that I didn't want them doing anything unapproved to her, that I wanted to hold her tight from the first minute and give us both the very best chances at a successful breastfeeding relationship (I had read the Womanly Art of Breastfeeding, so I kind of knew how important the first few hours after delivery can be in establishing latch and milk supply).

I worked with my doctor, who was very cool, by the way, and did a great job of actually discussing stuff with me - I would be using him again with my current pregnancy if he hadn't retired! I rewrote my birth plan for the c-section, and there was a lot that I got that I wouldn't have if I hadn't asked for it. Both my husband and my doula were in the delivery room. She ended up taking pictures as the baby came out, while my husband smoothed my hair and held my hand. I got to hold her on the operating table and even offered her a breast as they were sewing me up. The baby went with me into recovery, and then to the nursery briefly with my husband so they could check her out while I waited to be released to a room. He managed to avoid having them give her a bottle of glucose by telling them to hurry me up out of recovery so I could nurse her - it was a little parade down the hall as soon as they saw me coming, they wheeled her right behind me and I got her back within half an hour total. I swear, that was a LOOONG half hour, though! I was lucky - I did have some itching, and a little bit of shaking in recovery, but I had read up on the drugs (which cause both, btw) and knew to expect it - but my reaction was minimal.

We were lucky to be in a hospital that really encouraged rooming-in, and our birth plan made it super-clear that Julie was never to be taken out of our sight, or touched without our permission. We said it respectfully, but firmly, and I think the staff understood where we were coming from. My DH stayed in the room with us both nights, but I had Julie in bed with me the whole time. There was one night nurse who gave me a hard time about it and told me I could kill my baby that way, but I felt very safe, and there was a day nurse who supported me completely and agreed that I was doing the best to start off on the right foot.

I had a pretty easy recovery, I have to admit. I was sitting up within 12 hours, and briefly out of bed within 24. It was so scary to move around at first because I felt like my guts were going to fall out the incision (sorry for the TMI). I did have some pain while urinating for about two months after because they probably over-inflated the catheter. Also, I had a GIANT bruise on my belly that took a couple of months to go away - I guess they failed to entirely cut off one of the broken blood vessels while they were in there. It was scary to look at, and a bit sore, but is completely gone now, and my incision healed really well and is fading fast. My doc was really cool and spent a few extra minutes actually stitching me up with dissolveable thread instead of giving me staples that I would have to go back an have out. That's something to ask for - I didn't have to, but I would if I were having another c-section for sure. Once the epidural wore off, I managed not to use any additional IV drugs and stuck with heavy-duty Motrin. I was really worried about passing them along to my daughter through breast milk. By the time for the next dose, I was making sure not to move because it hurt, but otherwise it was fine, and I think I got to experience that first day with my daughter a little more clearly - and my body started functioning normally a little faster as well. I did have one of those pumps set up that first night with morphine and a button to push in case I needed it, but I guess I have a pretty high pain tolerance.

It is amazing what some silly people will say to you afterwards, even when they mean well. Everyone in our extended family knew I was devastated at not getting to give birth naturally, but my husband's aunt, who happens to be a nurse, showed up the next day and kept saying "You're lucky! You had the baby the easy way!" This, while I still had a catheter in and maybe still an IV attached and felt like I looked like death warmed over. After the second time, I gave her a look to kill and said "I wouldn't say that." in the coldest voice I could muster. I still want to smack her and give her a real piece of my mind when I think of it.

In a way, though - she was right. I had the best possible experience I can imagine given that it was a c-section. My baby and I were both healthy. I got to bond with her right away and continuously. We had a great nursing relationship. But - when I met with my midwives for my current pregnancy (they are a group that deliver in their own unit at the same hospital where my daughter was born) - I was thrilled when she said they have an 85% success rate for VBACs. I mean, that's higher than the national rate for first-time vaginal births! I am really looking forward to giving birth naturally this time, assuming the situation allows. I'm a little scared/nervous, the same way I was when I was pregnant with my daughter.

The thing that scares me most is what it would be like if I went through a long, hard labour and still ended up having a c-section. I really think that being well-rested (except I didn't sleep much the night before because I had horrible heartburn and was excited like the night before Christmas) and relaxed (heck, we stopped at Krispy Kreme on the way to the hospital and bought doughnuts for the staff!) really contributed to the positive experience I had. But, I'll write birth plans for all the possibilities I can think of, and I'll do my best to be prepared for what comes as I get it. For me, knowing I had to have a c-section a couple weeks ahead of time did give me a chance to adjust my attitude and grieve the loss of my chance at a natural birth ahead of time so that I *could* manage to be happy that day.

What a novel!


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

ShellyK - welcome to the thread!







This is a great place to come and get support whether you're recovering from a c-sec or getting ready to plan another labor experience c-sec or not. If you don't mind, I would love to read your birth plan. I am not currently pregnant, but planning one in the near future. I've been doing alot of research and accumulating quite a few questions for my new OB that I will be going to. I'm 99% sure I will schedule another c-sec (b/c of the circumstances of my last birth experience). So, I would love to get ideas from your birth plan.


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## dlm194 (Mar 23, 2005)

Hello! I had no idea this tribe existed. I'm Dana and I have a dd Elizabeth who will be 1 on Friday. I had a c-s (obviously - that's why I'm here) and the strange thing is, sometimes I think I am still waiting for her to be born. I was preparing myself for a birth which never happened.

I had a great pg - I switched from doctors to midwives halfway through. I had 2 birthing balls which I used religiously and I attended prenatal yoga every week. I come from a long line of women who birthed quickly and easily. I was born after 30 minutes of labor - my mom barely made it to the hospital. My mother was born on the hospital steps and her mother was born in an outhouse. Apparently my great grandmother thought she had to go to the bathroom when she was really in labor.

I began having contractions Wed morning, Sept 8 around 9am. I spend the rest of the day having a couple contractions an hour. Around 8pm, I had reflexology done and by 9pm, the contractions were coming every 5-7 minutes. I hoped on the birthing ball and my dh called the midwife around 11pm. We agreed to stay home a little while longer and finally met the midwife at the hospital around 4am. They hooked me up to the monitors and I was contracting every 3 minutes. At 6am, I was only 2.5cm dilated (I was 2 cm a week before in the office). My midwife tried to manually dilate me several times. I got to almost 5cm around 8am. She hooked me up to pitocin at 8am, gave me stadol at 9am and an epidural at 10am. The contractions were coming fast and furious but I still wouldn't dilate further. The pitocin made me horrible nauseous and the epidural gave me horrible shakes whcih wouldn't go away. At 1pm, the midwife brought the ob in who announced I needed a c-s and my daugther was born at 2pm, 29 hours after I first started contracting. I still look back at the birth wondering if I should have done something differently. I'm disappointed that my midwife turned out to be more of a medwife.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soccerchic21*
I can't wait for my next local ICAN meeting. I wish they were more than once a month. DH was saying that maybe I should see a therapist to talk about my feelings. I am thinking it might help. I got a few names of people who deal with birth trauma.

Please don't hesitate to talk to someone!!! I did. When my dd was 3 months old, I was ready to pack it in and quit! Luckily, the company I work for offers an employee assistance program to I went a talked to a counselor about how I was feeling about everything. I feel so much better and my marriage is much stronger.

There are 3 midwives in the practice that I was seeing and one definitely understood my disappointment. She couldn't believe I had a c-s and made me promise to wait a year before trying again so that I could vbac. I really wish I could just see her when we have another baby!


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## ShellyK (Oct 14, 2003)

Sandy, for a second I was almost kicking myself about kind of bragging about my birth plan because I was afraid it might not be on my hard drive and I would have to go digging through old backup CDs to find it - and they're buried in a box somewhere since we just moved. But it was still around, and so I've put it up on my web server for you to download if you want to check it out. It's in Word document format, so if that's a problem for you I can convert it to plain text. Go to www.shellykang.com/BirthPlan.doc

I guess I should say a little more about the document. I started with a web page that I found by Googling Birth Plan that let you select from tons of different options and generate a plan to start from, so much of the wording in mine comes from that plan. Unfortunately, I'm not sure where exactly that page was - so you'd have to go do a Google search of your own if you're interested in tracking that source. When I printed that first one out, it was like 5 pages long and had WAY too much stuff in there. Lots of things about not giving enemas and not shaving pubes yadda yadda - remember, I was planning a natural birth when I started the thing. I knew I needed to pare it down, because a lot of what was in it was stuff that the doctor and hospital I had chosen didn't do as routine anymore anyway.

I think a great way to get off on the wrong foot is to overdo telling the doctors and nurses how to do their jobs. I mean, if someone came into my house and told me "You know, it's best if you keep the bleach out of your daughter's reach" I'd be pretty P.O.'d because yeah, duh I've had it up and away since she was about 6 months old. And if someone presented me with a 5-page list of those kinds of things, I'd get bored pretty fast and stop reading it seriously by the end of page 1. Best to keep the stuff on there that might actually be controversial so they can get to the meat right away.

So how did I find out what to pare down? I talked to my doctor first. I think he came to understand that he needed to plan to spend more time with me than most of his other patients because when he asked if I had questions, the answer was almost always yes. He spent a good 20 minutes going through that thing with me one day, and earned huge bonus-points of respect with me by doing so. In fact, that conversation and others like it led me to trust him enough to go ahead and take the scheduled c-section rather than stick with my natural birth plan, which was my (wrong) gut instinct. There were a few things on the list that my doc didn't know whether hospital policy dictated or not, and for those he sent me over to the maternity floor to talk to the nurses about. They were the things that happen in the nursery after the baby is born like the vitamin K and the vaccines. He deals with the birth, then hands 'em off.  Some of those were a little harder to pin down, and so if in doubt, I left them in.

Really, the birth plan is mostly good as a tool for finding out which battles you need to pick on the big day, and then it helps a lot to have it in your chart so that the nurses who come into contact with you should already know your wishes when they come on shift. I hope all this hot air helps a bit.

I gotta say, too - if you're planning a scheduled c-section, bring some treats for the staff with you! When you walk in there and start bargaining with the anesthesiologist (who is the one who will really decide what you get in the OR) it gets them on their good side if you ask first "So, did you get one of those Krispy Kremes in the break room?" or something like that. Let them know you mean well and respect them as people - more flies with honey and all that. Even if they don't want to eat them, they probably like it that you thought of them. Oh, and from friends who are hospital nurses - storebought is better. You are a relative stranger to them, and they have no idea what your kitchen looks like  If it's homemade, they probably won't eat it. Storebought, they may.


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

Dana - Welcome!









ShellyK - Thank you for posting your birth plan and for all the wonderful insights you have! I've been doing alot of research, and reading lots of birth plans. I haven't pulled together my birth plan yet, but I do have lots of new questions for my OB. I can't wait to meet my new OB in the beginning of October! I'll ask him a few of my questions on the first visit, but save all the "hairy" questions for when I'm actually pg. Thanks again for all the help!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShellyK*
I think a great way to get off on the wrong foot is to overdo telling the doctors and nurses how to do their jobs. I mean, if someone came into my house and told me "You know, it's best if you keep the bleach out of your daughter's reach" I'd be pretty P.O.'d because yeah, duh I've had it up and away since she was about 6 months old.

That's an interesting perspective. I see it a little differently. To me, it's more like your daughter telling you not to give her bleach to drink, when she saw you pour it into her glass. This isn't me telling them how to raise (or not raise) their kids - or even how to treat their other patients. It's me trying to tell them what I do and don't want done to me...not that they care.

After three c-sections, my conclusion is that the job description of a maternity ward nurse at my hospital reads "be as condescending as possible, make sure you screw up the baby's latch by sticking your hands where they don't belong at least once daily - and, above all, do _not_ let the new mom sleep".

If I ever have another baby, my only birth plan is for post-partum care and consists of "leave me alone - if I don't ask for it, I don't want it".

I'm also amazed at how many people bring treats for the operating room staff. I'm not interested in being chummy - in fact, I wish they'd leave me alone instead of trying to be my friend during surgery. _Nobody_ in the OR is my friend - if they were, I wouldn't be there in the first place.


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## chantald (Oct 26, 2004)

Lisa








I think it also has a lot to do with where you give birth... My first birth was a nightmare.. from the get go.. The OR staff was cold and acted like I wasn't there...and the nurses were not very good.. The night nurse terrorized me.. made me keep the lights on.. woke me every hour.. it was horrible..

My second birth couldn't have been more different. The Drs and OR staff were so kind and sensitive to my needs, DH got to see DD born.. took pictures.. They allowed me to hold and kiss her on the table.. I was kept informed of every thing that was happening to her and to me.. The Dr lowered the drape so we could talk as he worked after DD was born..(I was in the OR an extended period of time due to complications.. not life threatening..)
The nurses were so kind, went out of their way to check in on us..but not bother us. Each had a kind and supportive word to say about my birth. Each room had a small window that the nurse could peek in as she did her rounds, if we were asleep she didn't bother us and would return when we woke to take my vitals.

I really think it has a lot to do with WHERE you birth as well as the people who staff the place....


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## ShellyK (Oct 14, 2003)

Lisa, I am so sorry you've had such horrible experiences! Like I said in my first post, I know that I had the best possible experience I could have expected given the circumstances of my daughter's birth. I feel very fortunate. Yes, the nurses did wake me up more than I would have liked the first night, and I did get chewed out by the one night nurse as I described...but by the second night, they were making sure to do their stuff and leave us the heck alone for the night as early as possible.

What I was trying to say with the bleach example was that it doesn't make sense to go in the day of the operation and tell the staff to do things the way that is already their standard procedure. Find out what you need to fight for ahead of time, and otherwise let them do their jobs. But definitely fight the necessary fights!

We had to make a case to get my doula in the OR because it is not the normal policy of that (and most hospitals) to let a second person in there, let alone while they're prepping you. My doula stayed with me the entire time while they were putting in the epidural, and my husband came in I think after they had the curtains up. It was really nice to have her there to hold my hand and *not* some strange OR nurse that I had just met that morning. Plus, we got great pictures of Julie coming out that even the doctor wanted copies of because he had never seen any that good from his practice before. But I'm telling you - going in there and being nice to the circulating nurse who was the first person to go over the birth plan, acting relaxed and friendly yet confident and knowledgeable got me a whole lot further than being militant from the start would have. The circulating nurse made the case to the anesthesiologist for me on some of the things I asked for - and having her vouch for me to the doctor I had never met probably meant a whole lot more to that doc than my piece of paper.

By dealing with those people the way I did up front (and by lucking into a great, progressive hospital with wonderful staff), I feel like I avoided the kind of situation that would be represented by your bleach example. I am so sorry your experiences left you feeling so badly.


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## ruby slippers (Aug 21, 2005)

I had my cesarean Feb 2005 for a posterior baby with no descent. I was so disappointed with the birth at the time but there were some little snippets of "nice" things that happened that I cling onto. Being able to hold dd in the OR, my dh being there with me, my MW and the OB who did the surgery were very respectful and some of the nurses were (other not so). I was actually very shocked with my feelings of jealousy of other friends who had vaginal deliveries. One friend had a wonderful delivery and I spent the entire weekend crying - my dh even suggested I go to see my MD to get some meds for depression! I have a total of 7 friends pregnant at the moment (2 with previous c-sections, one with a VBAC) and I wonder how it'll be for them. I am hit with the "it's so unfair" thoughts frequently. I did everything the books said to avoid a c-section (I had a midwife, I wasn't induced














) I often think about having counselling or something to deal with it. Anyone out there tried therapy for this? How many sessions do you recommned, etc.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm sorry for such a bitter post.

The staff in the OR for my last two sections (I was under general for my first one) have been quite pleasant, I guess. But, they seem kind of oblivious. They introduce themselves and make chit-chat, while I'm standing there terrified. The nurse who held me while the anesthetist put that damned needle in my spine kept asking me what "that was". Once it was a contraction, but the rest of the time, I was just tense with pure fear. I don't think it ever crosses their minds that some of us don't find this a happy, happy moment...c-sections and the attendant medications, particularly the spinal, terrify me. And, they try to be friendly, but they also kick out dh - and he's the only person I want there when I'm scared.

However, the OR nurses aren't that bad - it's the ones on the maternity ward that really get to me. Plus, this year, I finally refused to see the community health nurse (the home visitor), and you'd have thought I was declaring my intent to raise my baby on Skid Row. I told the rep at the hospital that I find the visits distracting and stressful and that I don't need more stress while recovering from surgery, and she still wouldn't drop it. I'm expecting her to call today, actually - if they can't come to your home to harrass you, they'll make sure they do it by phone.

Oh, well - the nurse on the L&D ward, who did the initial prep (ie. the damned IV) was really great. She's the first nurse I've had there who could actually get an IV on me - and she gave up her lunch hour so that she could monitor me post-op...meaning I had Evan with me right away - first time!!


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## ruby slippers (Aug 21, 2005)

I think the OR staff are oblivious - they do this day in and day out. I think the chit-chat is meant to make you more relaxed and I'd be a lot more worried when they stop the chit-chat as it usually means something serious is happening! Storm bride, I'm so glad that you got to hold your babe so soon after the surgery and the community person who comes to visit....what a waste of time. I too will cancel the community person if i have another baby.


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## ShellyK (Oct 14, 2003)

Hey, Ruby!

I'm sorry you're feeling so disappointed with your experience. It is a loss that it is hard for most people to understand since all they see is you with a healthy baby and "what's the problem". I think it is really important to be able to acknowledge those feelings and be able to deal with them so that you can move on and enjoy your baby, and your friends' babies, and look forward to the next time maybe.

I didn't see a therapist or counselor after my daughter's birth, but I've had great success using them in the past. The usual answer to how many sessions - and the only one I would expect a decent therapist to give - is "however many it takes" It really depends on you and your needs. A therapist can also help you assess whether what you're feeling is depression and make a decision about whether you need meds. I'd say call and make an appt. today!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ruby slippers*
I think the OR staff are oblivious - they do this day in and day out. I think the chit-chat is meant to make you more relaxed and I'd be a lot more worried when they stop the chit-chat as it usually means something serious is happening! Storm bride, I'm so glad that you got to hold your babe so soon after the surgery and the community person who comes to visit....what a waste of time. I too will cancel the community person if i have another baby.









I also think they're trying to put the patient at ease. Unfortunately, it doesn't have that effect on me. It just makes me hostile, as well as scared. It's not the best emotional state for meeting your new baby.









I'm glad I got to hold him, too. I actually got to hold dd, as well...but only while they finished stitching me back up. Then, I had to leave her for a little over an hour while they monitored me in post-op. That hour was one of the worst of my life, I think.

If your nurses are like ours, be prepared for a battle if you want to skip the community nurse. I had to spend about 10 minutes persuading the liaison that I didn't want the visit. Then, the nurse called my OB to come check the incision, after I'd already called for my ride home, because it wasn't closed (it eventually became infected). Since the community health liaison was still there, she insisted on check the incision with my doctor...so she'd know what my status was. It was sooooo frustrating...on the verge of being released from jail (well - that's how it felt), and then worrying that they were going to keep me another day...


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## chantald (Oct 26, 2004)

Hi Ruby
Welcome! I am sorry that your delivery didn't go as you wished. Feeling sad and jealous are normal.. at least I think they are. I felt the same way. It took me a long time to work through those feelings after my first c/s. I think therapy would have helped.. but I didn't acknowledge that there was a problem. Sending you many







s

My second birth also didnt' go as planned, and I felt sad and cheated again.. but I was really able to bounce back much quicker and find peace with my birth. I no longer feel like I need to "prove" anything to anyone, including myself. I am at a place where I don't need a vaginal birth to be the mother I want to be... That feeling was a HUGE step for me. A huge step. I think that how my second birth went really helped me down that road.. even tho it didn't end with a vbac.

Chantal


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## mandalamama (Sep 1, 2004)

almost one year post-cesarean, and i still have nightmares about it. the adhesions still hurt. in the last 3 months, i've been having really weird head pain and "intercranial pressure" problems, the dr's said it has nothing to do with the spinal anesthesia i had, but the nurses i've talked to said they've heard of women with c-sections and spinals having headache problems for up to a year afterwards. so we're still not sure what the source of the pressure is from.

i think the nightmares are because i had planned for a natural birth so perfectly that my mind and heart just couldn't allow for anything else. i had heredity on my side, a long line of short, easy labors and small babies. i had 2 doulas. i had my husband, we'd both read "Birthing from Within" and discussed what we both expected. Fate had different plans, Willow was wrapped up in a very short cord. i hope someday there will be an ultrasound that can tell exactly where the cord is on the baby! if i'd known, i could have taken more time making decisions. i had a very long labor, 30 hours. at the end everything was so rushed, i just felt very desparate and exhausted. one of my doulas got to stay with me for the whole thing, she held me while i got the spinal, while my labor nurse had me gaze into her eyes and focus. the spinal knocked my entire body numb except for my face and part of my left shoulder, and it kept me numb and paralyzed for *6 hours*. but Willow was able to latch on at 40 minutes after birth because of my doulas







it sucked so badly not to be able to hold her, though. everyone just kept propping her up against me and latching her on. when i could finally hold her i just cried and cried, it felt so wonderful.

it's just ... this is really painful to talk about ... i had been calling my surges "dancing with my baby" and i was laughing even at 8cm and 3-minutes-apart surges. labor was such a beautiful and wonderful experience for me, it was like the wildest rollercoaster ride EVER! i was SO ready for the pushing. i was totally psyched. even until the last moment i thought we could pull it off, i'd heard of women give birth on the operating table! so it was like being torn from this beautiful, weird world of pain-that-wasn't-pain, dancing with my baby, then tied down and being made completely numb, not feeling anything. and the baby i was dancing with, whoosh, gone, and i couldn't even feel that. i only remember her being held up to me and looking at me, i smelled her head and kissed her, but she was gone so fast. i was throwing up a lot from the anesthesia and had to be suctioned a lot, so i can't remember much else.

anyway. the nightmares are about the cesarean, but also just about Willow being taken away from me in general. like, i wake up and she's gone from beside me in bed, i start screaming and searching, but then i *really* wake up, and whew! she's right there. gets my heart pounding.

sorry to go on so long


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## chantald (Oct 26, 2004)

Melly


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

Melly - I'm so sorry! I can't even imagine.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Melly:














I'm so sorry. I've had the c-section nightmares, but not the ones about having my baby taken away. That would be so terrifying! And, it's _such_ a shock when you're feeling confident and good about your labour, then WHAM - surgery.









Your little Willow sounds like a delightful baby girl...I'm so happy that you got to nurse her fairly early on. And, I started tearing up reading the part of your post about finally holding her...so touching.

I hope things get better for you...do you have anybody offline you can talk to about this? Although, online helps, too. It's only since I started posting on these threads that I've started working through my _first_ section - 12 years ago! Everyone here is so supportive.


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

Heyla all!

I just posted to the August cesarean thread (since I didn't see this one at first)...apologies for the double post!

I had a cesarean with my first baby just five months ago. The incision has healed up really well and I've been doing my "scar therapy/massage" faithfully without a problem, but in the last few weeks I've been getting a nagging ache along the incision area (actually, a little above the incision and only on the right hand side)...in the last few days this ache has been almost constant. It kind of reminds me of the round ligament pain I had during pregnancy.

My doctor said it's nothing to worry about (yeah, it's not her belly!) and I half think it might be due to the fact that my dd tends to kick the right side of my belly in her sleep (and sometimes when she's nursing) but...I'm not convinced that that is the entire answer.

Does anyone have any advice (stretches, topical rubs, massage ideas) for relieving this sort of ache? Or experience with a similar pain along the incision site months after it has apparently healed? I've tried some gentle yoga poses that stretch the ab area and a topical arnica/calendula ointment, but I'm sure there must be other things to try.

Thanks for any and all advice!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I haven't had anything like that, so I'm afraid I can't help. Could it be adhesions? There's someone on here who's had a lot of trouble with them...I think it's stafl. She doesn't post on this thread, but you could maybe PM her and see if she has anything suggestions.


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## chantald (Oct 26, 2004)

Hi
I get that on and off, mostly around ovulation. I assumed it was ovulation pain..??? My bladder was cut during my second c/s and I still have adhesion pain when it empties (not all the time) or I strain... My c/s was nearly a year ago..

Hope you feel better soon

Chantal


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## PaytonsMom (Aug 31, 2005)

Just learned that a co-workers wife just gave birth NATURALLY to a 10 lb 6 oz, 23 1/2 inch long baby boy!!







And I have to have a cesarean with a 7lb 15 oz, 19 inch boy?!







Yeah. Those jealousy pains develoop again. *sigh* Why can't I just be happy for them?!


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

I don't think it is ever how big the baby is. I think it's just what position the baby decides to put him/herself in.







Just my thoughts.


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## ruby slippers (Aug 21, 2005)

Amber


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Amber: I've given that one a lot of thought over the years (12.5 years since my first section!) and I do have one thought. Being jealous over her birth doesn't mean you're not happy for them...it means you're not happy for you. I spent a lot of time being hard on myself for being so petty about other people's births. Then, I realized that I am happy for them (at least the ones who are happy themselves) - happy moms, sweet babies - wonderful.

The jealousy is just part of the complicated process of mourning/grieving a negative birth. Don't be down on yourself - it's totally natural to feel the way you do!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Okay - sorry for the super long post here. It took me 12.5 years, but I finally wrote down:

Kelly's Birth Story

I was due March 28, 1993. I'd had a dream pregnancy - no risk factors - no aches and pains, aside from a little pulling at my groin sometimes - no morning sickness - nothing but a little fatigue. I loved being pregnant and was looking forward to going into labour. At my March 17th checkup, my doctor confirmed that my baby was head down, but hadn't dropped. He said that was nothing to worry about as sometimes they didn't drop at all until labour had started.

The following night, March 18th, I developed a backache at bedtime (a little before 10:00). I told my ex to go ahead and go to bed, as I was going to try a warm tub to ease the pain in my back. The pain was a constant, serious backache, and I had no idea it was the onset of labour. Looking back, I can't believe I didn't clue in, but I'd heard so much about the coming and going of contractions that I didn't even consider the possibility that such a solid, consistent pain could be labour. I took a warm bath and that seemed to ease the backache, so I went to bed. I was on the bed for about five minutes and the pain became too severe to remain horizontal. So, I got up and walked around the apartment for about an hour. I tried to go to bed again with the same result. The cycle of walking around, having a warm bath and trying unsuccessfully to rest continued all night. (I did get a little bit of rest when I rolled onto my side, but never went to sleep.) The backache never went away. I still didn't realize I was in labour, but I wasn't concerned about the backache at all. I just put it down to "one of those things" about being in late pregnancy. Oddly, I also wasn't concerned about the fact that I'd thrown up my entire dinner earlier in the evening.

At about 5:00 am, I went to use the bathroom again and discovered a fair quantity of blood. The lightbulb finally went off and I woke up my ex and told him I was in labour. He got up to keep me company. A little later, I called my mom and told her. Around that same time, I started feeling a noticeable ebb and surge to the pain - real contractions at last! They were focussed mostly in my back, but also my abdomen and pelvis, and slightly in my thighs. I walked around, sat on a chair a little bit, and spent quite a bit of time on my knees bent over the couch. The contractions were painful, but not difficult to ride out by breathing deeply and staying as relaxed as possible.

Later that morning, I realized I had a loan payment that needed to be made, so I sent my ex to the bank with written instructions. But, first he ran over to my sister's and got her to come over, so I wasn't alone in labour. When he came home, my sister stayed. A little later, my mom called and asked if she could come over as well - she wasn't able to concentrate at work (first grandchild!), anyway. So, I laboured throughout the day with my ex, my mom, my sister and a close family friend. The day went well...I kept moving constantly, and spent what seemed like a lot of time on the toilet. My doctor's office had advised me to stay home until the contractions were five minutes apart as long as I was doing okay. I wasn't doing "okay" - I was doing great. I was excited and happy and not finding labour to be as bad as people made it sound - what I mostly expected, really. I was loving labour, and looking forward to meeting my new baby. I was joking with my ex and having a great time between contractions. I had no appetite, but did drink a fair bit of fluids. I kept saying that I was glad it was taking a while, because today (the 19th) was my BIL's birthday and I didn't want my baby to arrive until the 20th.









At about 5:45 that evening, my mom convinced me to go to the hospital. My contractions weren't progressing normally. They'd be 3 minutes apart for 2 or 3 contractions, then 4 or 5 minutes apart for a couple, then 3 again, etc. They were lasting anywhere from 45-65 seconds. I still felt great, but thought I should at least go get checked out. I walked over to the hospital (about a block) and checked in. The admissions nurse told me that I didn't seem very far along, but I could go ahead and go upstairs for assessment.

It looked as though it was going to be quite a long time before anything happened, so my mom, sister and friend went to get something to eat. It was about 6:30 in the evening. My ex and I went into the L&D room. We were both excited - this was where our baby was going to be born. We took a picture of the room, then I went to change into a hospital gown. I came back in, and got up on the bed for a cervical check. The nurse checked me and said I was about 8cm. (quite a shock!), then the resident/intern? checked me - a contraction hit, and she said I was at 10 during the contractions. My ex and I were almost bouncing off the walls - baby was almost here! The nurse asked my ex to get me some ice chips because it was important to keep me hydrated. After he left, they told me they were brining in an ultrasound, because they couldn't find the baby's head and thought he was probably breech, which would necessitate a c-section. I was stunned... exhausted...just overwhelmed...and they'd just kicked my one source of support out of the room! They brought the ultrasound and told me baby was bum first, and I had to have a section. I started crying and saying "no" over and over. My ex walked in with the ice chips and stood there looking bewildered...there were about 5 or 6 attendants in the room, and I was overwrought. He walked back over to the bed, and I started saying (screaming, I think), "I don't want a f***ing c-section - they can't do this - I don't want one" over and over and over. The nurses tried twice to get an IV in, leaving huge bruises on my arm. Someone was putting a catheter in, and people were hooking me up to a bp cuff and a bunch of other monitoring crap. They were all talking about how urgent this was, and was the OR ready yet. I just kept saying I didn't want it, and crying and crying. They never said anything to me - not even about why they were in such a hurry. Suddenly, I was being wheeled down the hallway and my ex was gone. When I got to OR, someone finally sank an IV needle, and they moved me onto the OR table....still crying and swearing and saying "no". I remember a couple of really bad contractions and someone saying something about hurrying and transition labour...

The next thing I remember is pain in my stomach...I didn't know where I was or what I was doing there. I didn't even remember having a baby. I heard a moan - me, as it turns out - and voice saying "it's okay, dear - I'll just put a little more morphine in your IV". A little while later (a long while - who knows?), the same thing happened. Sometime after that, some nurses came and wheeled me away. I still didn't know who I was or what I was doing there...I had no recollection of coming to have a baby. One of the nurses said "it was a boy" as we were going up the hallway, and I didn't even realize at the time that she was talking to me. Just after that, we came around the corner, and I saw my mom, sister & friend. At about the same moment, I heard a baby cry in the nursery and it all came back. I was in an absolute panic - didn't know if my baby was okay or anything. I started asking about it in a panic - is my baby okay? was it a boy or a girl? The nurse said "it was a boy" - tone of voice like teacher scolding a student for not paying attention. They stopped the stretcher in the hallway, and my ex and a nurse brought Kelly (he had no name yet!) out and put him down beside me. I had time to look into those big blue baby eyes and stroke his cheek. Then, they took him away again and wheeled me to my room. The nurse got snotty with me because I wasn't "helping" her transfer me to the bed. I was weak as a kitten, and had tremendous pain in my abdomen. I don't know what I could have done. Anyway...she cleaned me up a bit, switched my pad and gave me a sleeping pill. I didn't see my baby again until the next morning.

The next morning, they took out my IV. A little later, they sent up the bloodwork team to take some samples - half a dozen little needles. Then, they came back that night and said that I was running a fever (I wasn't!) and had an infection. The blood lab hadn't found anything, but they were going to put me on antibiotics "just in case". So, they sank a new IV - the fifth needle in less than 24 hours - in my hand and gave me IV antibiotics ever 12 hours for the rest of my stay - five days. I ate the liquid diet for 3.5 days, before I finally lied and told them I'd passed gas. I still felt incredibly weak, and I needed real food. The nurses were awful - one told me to "hurry up" when I was trying to roll onto my side to feed Kelly. I simply didn't have the strength to make it over on my side.

I found out later that Kelly had been born at 7:02 pm - about half an hour after I got up to the L&D floor. My ex, my mom, my sister, my friend, my SIL and I don't know how many other people saw him and held him before I did...


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## ruby slippers (Aug 21, 2005)

Lisa, thanks for sharing kelly's birth story. It was obviously so traumatic and I am sending a







your way. It is terrible that no-one explained anything to you. There is just no excuse for that. One would think with the high c-section rate hospital staff would be more aware of the emotional fallout after a cesarean birth and try to address how to make it easier on mom and baby. Sometimes I think it is because we keep the pain hidden or that we deny it - something I have definately been guilty of especially when talking to mom's who had a vag. birth. When I was wheeled into the OR I was shaking but refused to loose my smile, I pretended I was okay with it. How i wished i'd screamed no. It might not have changed the outcome but I may have felt a bit better!
Your words about jealousy of other mom's who have vag births ring so true. It is not that I wish them to have a c-section but it reminds me of what i lost.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm just glad I finally wrote that. I probably should have done it a long time ago, but I thought I'd be okay if I just got on with things. And, for a long time, I was really counting on a VBAC.

I've hidden the emotional aftermath to some extent with my other two sections. When I'm dealing with negative emotions around strangers, I tend to withdraw and become very aloof. I suspect I come across as somewhat unfriendly and uncooperative, but I don't think my fear and anger would be noticeable to someone who doesn't know me well. I've been thinking of writing a letter to my family doctor. Wheneven I take Evan in, she and the nurse are always asking me how I'm doing, and I usually just say "I'm okay". I don't think they really want to acknowledge how bad this last section was for my emotional state, so they're quite willing to take that to mean that everything's just fine. What it really translates as is more like "I don't want to talk about this with you, because I'll start crying and I don't like to be that vulnerable in public". Maybe a letter would help.

And, I don't know how to deal with the OB. I actually do believe he was sincerely acting in what he saw as my best interests (I've witnessed his attendance at other births, and he's not at all intervention happy), but his idea of a good outcome is not the same as mine.

I'm finding that after my doctor's appointments, I tend to become very, very angry...at them, at my dh, at myself...even at my babies a little bit. I'm trying to find a way to direct it, because last night I felt like ripping my own uterus out, and that's not a good mental state! Maybe that's what triggered my need to write the birth story.

I post essays, don't I?


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

Lisa - I think writing is very theraputic. Sharing your story and trauma helps unload the burdens that you carry. I think writing a letter to your OB would at least clear your concious, if not help the staff at your OB office understand what you are going thru even if they don't do anything about it. I am just speaking from what I know. I changed OB offices, so no letter was needed. But, I found that in writing a letter to my dh, that I was able to get out everything I was feeling without sobbing thru an entire conversation. It was helpful, but it brought me back to a very raw grief.







Do you have to see your OB frequently right now?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I only have to see him - if I do - for my six week pap test. I've actually gotten along with him very well. And, he's more VBAC-friendly than most OBs around here. It was just the way things ended this time that's left me so angry. This isn't about the birth I wrote about above - that was my first, and I'm dealing with my third right now. I think I'm actually angriest at myself, for not standing up for myself better. I fought for a VBA2C for months, then caved at the end.


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## ShellyK (Oct 14, 2003)

Lisa, I read your post, and I'm so sorry you went through that. I wish you could have had my experience instead! My daughter was breach, too. I was devastated when I realized I was going to have to have a c-section, but I had about two weeks to come to terms with the idea and grieve the birth process I had hoped for ahead of time. Even then, it was a little bitter-sweet going in for surgery that day.

For you, being forced into it at the last minute and then sedated for so long afterwards - unbelievable. That was like my worst nightmare of what might happen, and in fact part of why I went ahead and chose the planned c-section instead of trying to deliver vaginally.

ARGH! I can see why you hate hospitals, delivery and maternity nurses now. I do think writing a letter to your doctor explaining your feelings might be helpful to you. Even if you never get around to sending it. But it might be helpful to them as medical professionals if they could understand that two extra minutes explaining what was going to happen to you and why - and discussing it rather than forcing you - might have been SO helpful and worth it.

Many hugs.


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## mandalamama (Sep 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wombatclay*
Heyla all!I had a cesarean with my first baby just five months ago. The incision has healed up really well and I've been doing my "scar therapy/massage" faithfully without a problem, but in the last few weeks I've been getting a nagging ache along the incision area (actually, a little above the incision and only on the right hand side)...in the last few days this ache has been almost constant. It kind of reminds me of the round ligament pain I had during pregnancy.

this sounds like adhesions, i get the same ache in the same exact place as you. it only became painful when my period came back. i've heard a lot of things about adhesions, some take years to "dissolve" and some you don't feel after about 6 months. i do yoga also. mostly i'm just used to it now, although i notice on a long car ride it'll feel just like the round ligament pain again.


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## mandalamama (Sep 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
I only have to see him - if I do - for my six week pap test.

i didn't go to mine, which felt empowering. i mean, at first i thought i "had" to go, then so many other mamas here let me know it isn't necessary unless the lochia is unusually heavy or you're having unusual pain, or a fever.

i DO need to go in for pelvimetry, eventually. my dr. said she noticed i did have a narrow, V-shaped pelvic interior, she and the attending dr. both said they'd like me to have pelvimetry done to rule out CDP in future pregnancies. because it's xrays, if we have an oops and i get pregnant, i wouldn't be able to get it after that. but i've got a wicked fear of doctors now, not all doctors, just any doctor that has to look inside any orifice


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## dlm194 (Mar 23, 2005)

My baby is 1 today!!!! So it's the 1 year anniversary of my c-s. I can't believe it's been a year. I was sitting in recovery 1 year ago today.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ruby slippers*
I had my cesarean Feb 2005 for a posterior baby with no descent. I was so disappointed with the birth at the time but there were some little snippets of "nice" things that happened that I cling onto. Being able to hold dd in the OR, my dh being there with me, my MW and the OB who did the surgery were very respectful and some of the nurses were (other not so). I was actually very shocked with my feelings of jealousy of other friends who had vaginal deliveries. One friend had a wonderful delivery and I spent the entire weekend crying - my dh even suggested I go to see my MD to get some meds for depression! I have a total of 7 friends pregnant at the moment (2 with previous c-sections, one with a VBAC) and I wonder how it'll be for them. I am hit with the "it's so unfair" thoughts frequently. I did everything the books said to avoid a c-section (I had a midwife, I wasn't induced














) I often think about having counselling or something to deal with it. Anyone out there tried therapy for this? How many sessions do you recommned, etc.

I can relate!!! I had a midwife, 2 birthing balls, I did prenatal yoga... I sometimes wonder what I did wrong or what I could have had done better. I'm so jealous of women who do nothing and have great deliveries. I did wind up going a seeing a therapist b/c I think the whole experience (plus my colicky baby) was pushing me to the edge. I think I went to about 8 or 9 sessions but I think that 5 would have been okay. My first session, I just vented all my frustrations!!! Then we went through them after that.

Lisa ~ I swear, I had the same excited feelings about labor and delivery. I felt great! Contractions were exciting and they mean the baby would be here soon. I was devastated when I just wouldn't dilate (to my midwife's liking) and they finally start the myriad of interventions leading to my c-s (pitocin, stadol, epidural). I felt like I failed and that my body had failed. I was so upset with my c-s. Horrible, uncaring nurse. I was wheeled to recovery where I sat by myself for 2 hours wondering where this baby was. I wish I had been there when my dh told everyone that we had a girl. I wish I could have been the first person to hold her. I wish I was around to hear my dh call everyone to tell them about out dd rather than sitting by myself and staring off into space. It's so hard and I doubt the hospital staff has any clue how a c-s affects some women. Thanks for sharing your story.

Wombatclay ~ My dd used to kick me all the time in the belly while nursing (I liked to nurse in bed). My scar would hurt a lot b/c of that. I'm not sure if it's the same thing you are having but not that she is too big to kick me there, it doesn't hurt like it used to.


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## SugarAndSun (Feb 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soccerchic21*
Checking in...

I had a late 4 week checkup with my midwife this week. I have been dying to talk to her about my birth and what she thinks went on to lead up to the c-seciton. There was a lot of crying. I feel a bit better.

She did reassure me that I was indeed very strong (8 hours of labor on pitocin naturally got complete water broke back to 7cm hit transition again). I was feeling like maybe if I didn't ask for the epi and got back into the water that things would have turned out differently. From the notes that she had though she said it looked like we did all we could.

I am supposed to go back in a month and we requested the documents from the hospital and we are going to go over those at the next appt. The way it looks now is that Jake was indeed "stuck" and the c-section was the only way to get him out. I still can't help but feel like I didn't do enough. But when they tell you that his heart rate isn't standing the labor or pushing what are you supposed to do?

I can't wait for my next local ICAN meeting. I wish they were more than once a month. DH was saying that maybe I should see a therapist to talk about my feelings. I am thinking it might help. I got a few names of people who deal with birth trauma.

Again this past week yet again someone I knew had a great vaginal birth. We saw them last night and her baby was 9 days old and I just kept staring at his vaginally birthed cone head feeling jealous. I hate that. I made an excuse about needing to leave so we could get out of there.


Hi! I'm new here and I have to say I wish I had met with my midwife like that. I have really been feeling it since my SIL just had a baby two days ago and pushed him out in 10 minutes and looked awesome the day after.

I'm not even pregnant yet, but I am thinking about VBAC. I don't want to take any risks, but I would love to have a vaginal birth next time.

I guess I feel like a failure even though I know I couldn't have gone on. The docs were asking my midwives for about 8 hours when I was going to have the c-section. They new I really wanted a vaginal birth, but final said it was risky to go on. DS was really stuck, they even had a hard time getting him out via c-section and he had molding for quite some time.

I think that all's well that ends well! DS is happy and healthy.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

First, Lisa,







. I'm so sorry for your experience.

Second, hello to all the newer people. I've been lurking but not posting much due to generalized chaos in my house (ACTIVE 22 month old combined with my mother living with us until mid-October due to her being very ill all summer).

I have news ... we're starting to ttc#2. I'm SO excited at the possibility of another baby and looking forward to hopefully having a VBAC. I have a great duo of midwives and a different hospital. (I crave an HBAC but that's just not gonna happen around here.) And the midwives are with 2 OBs that are actually very laid back -- this is about mom kind of thing. But ... I'm also beginning to work through the "what-ifs" -- what-if I have a r/c/s. I'm mad at myself already for not being in better shape going into this upcoming pg. (I blame my stressful summer, though.) I'm doing the best I can now to do good things -- eat well, try to exercise, etc. I just hope it's enough.

Anyway ... I'm sure I'll be posting about my journey as I go through it. I know you ladies understand.


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

A close friend of mine delivered her 9lb 11oz son yesterday via a planned cesarean (her second c/s). She was in the same hopsital where I had my unplanned c/s 5 months ago and visiting her...even though she seemed so happy...was really rough for me. Just being back on the labor/delivery ward brought back so many negative emotions it was hard to be cheerful and upbeat even though I really was thrilled for her!

So, I'm gonna take the advice of some of you all here and run through my own c/s experience to see if talking about it can help me over this emotional bump. I'd already planned on asking my doc about a post-partum counselor when I see her next (my dd and I have the same family doctor) but...I apologize for what will be a long post...at least in an online forum you can always just skip to the end!

This was my first pregnancy and while I LOVED being pregnant I did have a number of problems over the months...borderline high blood pressure and some bleeding or spotting almost every day for the first 5 months, and occassional bleeding every few weeks after that. Nerve wracking, and I wound up having three ultrasound scans to rule out previa and to monitor dd's condition, but it wound up being nothing to worry about.

I walked a mile or two each day, shifted my daily yoga practice to focus on the pregnancy, and practically lived on a birth ball for nine months. I've studied middle eastern dance for years and I continued to dance while pregnant, expecting to dance the baby out when the time came. I meditated, journaled, and researched everything I could get my hands on (and as a reference librarian, I could get my hands on a LOT). My doctor (a family practitioner) was and is a wonderful physician who is far more comfortable with "alternative" therapies/treatments than not, and her c/s rate is almost non-existant. The hospital I chose (my insurance only covered hospital births) has one of the lowest c/s rates in NY (and one of the highest VBAC rates) and is very baby friendly as well. They don't even have a formal nursery...the babies are expected to room in and they really push breastfeeding. I interviewed a half dozen doulas and chose a wonderful woman who met with my dh and I several times.

I attended independent birthing classes (a mix of bradley, lamaze, and kitzinger's methodologies so that participants would have plenty of options), and a birthing discussion group. And in a truly ironic twist I watched all those TV birth shows and thought "gee...if only those women could get up and move around, they wouldn't be needing all those c-sections".

I went 15 days past date before my water broke while I was eating breakfast. My dh and I were so excited! I called my doctor and my doula to let them know things were finally starting to happen! I stayed home for the first 13 hours, watching a Law & Order marathon while walking around the house, sitting on my birth ball, and generally feeling pretty good about life. I even went for a walk around town just to enjoy the sunny weather (Ithaca is not known for it's sun and I wasn't going to stay inside just because I was in labor!).

That evening I decided things were becoming a bit too intense for me to stay home...I was throwing up, shaking, and was pretty sure I was no longer amused by the process. The hospital I chose doesn't have any "routine" practices in regards to birth with the single exception of a 20 minute fetal monitor trace on admission. No IV, no continuous monitoring, no required positions, and no offer of medication (you have to ask, they don't offer it automatically)...in fact, most of the labor/delivery nurses have had un-medicated births as well and are VERY supportive.

Anyway, the ward was empty when I arrived and while I was getting my 20 minute trace one of the nurses filled the birthing jacuzzi for me...a quick check (I told them my water was broken so they were very hesitant to do internal checks, but they also wanted to make sure I was far enough along to benefit the most from the tub) showed I was 6.5cm dilated. 15 hours of back labor later (contractions were near constant for several hours...who said you get a break between them?), after being in and out of the tub, on and off the birth ball and stool, up and down the hallways, I was only 7cm and I was beyond exhausted.

Everything I tried to eat I threw up and even the juice I was drinking only stayed down half the time. My doctor suggested an interthecal (so called walking spinal) to allow me to nap and to see if perhaps the pain relief would allow my body to relax and dilate more effectively. The injection itself was less than fun, but I was still able to walk and squat with the help of my dh and doula and my doctor reassured me that she was expecting to catch the baby in just a few hours.

Then everything went all icky...to get the interthecal I had to have an IV (the fact that I hadn't been able to keep much fluid down for more than 24 hours was another concern considering my blood pressure) and after the spinal injection they added some pit to the IV to see if that would kick up the contractions. This meant that I had to had a monitor on (though I could still walk around) to track my response to the medication. Apparently the contractions were pretty massive, but when the interthecal began to wear off three hours later I was still at 7cm.

A surgeon I'd never seen before showed up (after the spinal had worn off and I was suddenly back in the land of massive contractions with no real warning) and said "Yup...no real progress here, are you ready for your cesarean?". I must have looked shocked or something because he then went on to explain something about failure to dilate even with the drugs and the fact that my water had been broken for well over 24 hours and if I wasn't pushing in an hour I was going to be having a cesarean.

My dh tells me the surgeon was actually pretty compassionate, but I honestly don't recall anything but a feeling of total despair. I saw that same surgeon in the hall two days after the surgery and I actually cringed.

Needless to say, an hour later I was being wheeled down the hall to the OR, still at 7cm...

My dd was delivered a few minutes later (9lbs 5oz, perfectly healthy) so the grand total from water breakage to dd's birth was 32 hours: 13 at home, 15 unmedicated in the birthing suite, 3 with a spinal interthecal and pit, and 1 with pit and no pain med.

I spent the first month sobbing every time I thought about the delivery/surgery...what did I do wrong? Should I have turned down the interthecal? Should I have had it sooner so I wasn't as worn down? I checked the hospital records and technically the c/s was my dd's fault...her head was twisted to the side and tilted back (the molding on her temple made her look like she had horns when you looked at her right profile) but...well...I still felt like something must be my fault.

Sadly, my doula added to this feeling when she visited me at home a few days later. She was surprised that the c/s upset me, saying something like "well, you must have been okay with having a cesarean on some level because you let them do it, right?". And then when I attended the "graduates" class of my birthing group the leader congratulated the women who'd had vaginal births and told me "well, you can always try for a VBAC...it's too bad you were the victim of medical intervention" (and was honestly surprised that her calling me a victim didn't make me "feel better") To be honest, it's a sentiment I see on some of the threads around MDC. That somehow if I'd avoided the interthecal, or been more "natural", or birthed at home, then everything would have been all right. That obviously if I'd been better informed I would have made better decisions and this would have prevented my cesarean. I know that my dd's positioning meant I probably would not have had a vaginal birth no matter how long I waited, that the longer I went with my water broken the better the chance got that I and my dd could have been negatively affected by an infection, and that at least my c/s was done in a non-crisis mode.

But somehow that doesn't make me feel any better. And spending a few hours back on the labor/delivery ward yesterday brought it all back...my brain is stuck in a "what if?" loop and I just can't seem to break out of it this time. Hopefully my doctor will be able to recommend someone I can meet with...I want more children, and I want a VBAC, and I know that it's better to deal with this sort of thing sooner rather than later, but right now I'm feeling pretty low.

Sorry for such a long (and depressing!) message...but my friends here either are thrilled with their c/s experiences or have never had a c/s". Thanks for listening!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

No need to apologize - that's what this thread is for!!

You did your homework, did everything you could to birth naturally and look after yourself...and still ended up in the operating room. I can completely understand why you're still upset. And, yes - visiting at the hospital is painful. My sister and SIL's have all birthed at the same hospital I did, and I truly hate going to visit them. I've spent some of the worst hours (days) of my life on the maternity ward (separate from L&D at our hospital), and knowing other women who don't care as much didn't have to be cut is difficult.

I'm so sorry about the comments from your doula and the leader of your birthing group made things even worse. I'm constantly astonished at the reactions some people have to c-section moms.

You did everything you possibly could, and the birth didn't turn out right. You have every right to be upset about it...and I understant blaming yourself, even though there's no blame to be attached. I hope writing your birth story helped. Thank you for sharing it.


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## ShellyK (Oct 14, 2003)

Thanks for sharing your birth story! I'm so sorry you're having what-if flashbacks! It does sound like you did everything right - including accepting the c-section when you did. You don't mention anything about negative aftereffects of the surgery, so I'm going to take a big leap and assume that your recovery was okay.

I was so disappointed when I realized I was going to have a c-section as well, but in my case, I didn't even go into labour. I guess that's on thing you did get to experience, and it sounds like you toughed that out amazingly well.

If your healing went well, there is no reason to think you can't have a VBAC. The midwife group I'm going to has an 85% success rate with VBACs - that's higher than the national average for births in general - so I know it can be done, and I'm counting on it for my own birth.

It's totally okay to feel sad about the way things turned out with your birth. No, most people won't understand. But I sure do! Something I've learned over time with a lot of hard things in my life is that, for me, if I allow myself to really feel the pain, to grieve whatever the loss, that it really is alleviated somewhat. The hurt is always there on some level, but it doesn't seem to bother me as much any more once I've really felt it and released it. So go ahead and take the opportunity to feel those feelings while they're bubbling up! This is a great place to let it out!

But, the molding on your daughter's head tells the story. Yes, maybe there is a chance that you could have gotten her to reposition somehow if you had continued to labour. But maybe not. You made the very best decision you could at the time, and the outcome was positive. So, try not to kick yourself too much while you're doing your grieving over the birth process.

Hugs!


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## chantald (Oct 26, 2004)

hugs for you!!


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

thanks everyone! I'm so glad a place like this exists!


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

: After 10 weeks of bleeding post c-sec, it has finally stopped!







:














:







I thought it would never end!














:








I think I'm back to my "normal" cycle now.


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## greenmansions (Feb 16, 2005)

Congrats on that Sandy, I bled for 9+ weeks, so I hear ya on that one. I always joke that my baby didn't have diaper rash, but I sure did.







:


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

ARRGH! She said it _again_!!

I've always had a hard time getting to know my SIL. She and my brother have been together for 10 or 11 years and she's just never felt like part of the family. She's been very distant and aloof and attends family "dos" out of a sense of duty. My family are very casual and like to get together for BBQ and stuff just for fun.

Anyway...she's been loosening up a lot over the last year or so, and I'm finding her much easier to be around. I don't talk to her about raising children much because we just don't do things the same way (she's big on schedules, and gives her kids the silent treatment - even washed their mouths out with soap for saying "no" when they were toddlers!!). But, we're generally getting along a lot better.

So, how on earth do I respond when she says things that _really_ hurt?? Twice now (when Evan was 10 days old and again last night), she's come out with "I know you don't like the c-section thing, but you're so lucky you didn't have to push out a 10-pounder". Last night, I responded with "I'd sell my soul to know that", but I don't think she heard me (it was dh's 30th birthday and there were a lot of people around - lot of noise). Does anybody have any suggestions about how to respond? She's really prickly and I don't want to go back to stage one when we're finally developing a relationship. But, I don't cope well with comments like that!


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
ARRGH! She said it _again_!!
So, how on earth do I respond when she says things that _really_ hurt?? Twice now (when Evan was 10 days old and again last night), she's come out with "I know you don't like the c-section thing, but you're so lucky you didn't have to push out a 10-pounder". Last night, I responded with "I'd sell my soul to know that", but I don't think she heard me (it was dh's 30th birthday and there were a lot of people around - lot of noise). Does anybody have any suggestions about how to respond? She's really prickly and I don't want to go back to stage one when we're finally developing a relationship. But, I don't cope well with comments like that!


First off







to you Storm Bride.

I've been reading and rereading your post hoping to be able to come up with some perfect solution for you. Unfortunatley, the only thing I could come up with is maybe you could take her aside privately and tell her your true feelings about your c-sec, and let her know that it really hurts you when she makes comments like that. That way you may be able to keep the relationship that the two of you have finally developed. I don't know if my suggestion will work, but it was the only thing I could come up with. Hopefully some of the other mamas here will have some good suggestions. I just wanted you to know I was thinking of you and hope you are doing well.


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## ShellyK (Oct 14, 2003)

Lisa, I'm so sorry you're in such a tough situation - it is obvious that you are wanting to get closer to SIL and I think you are to be commended for thinking carefully about how to deal with her comments...

I had a somewhat similar situation with one of my DH's friends when we were first married. I had mentioned to him or the group or somehow he found out that I don't speak to my parents or sister any more - after years of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse, and lots of work with a therapist and many attempts to reconcile with my family, it was clear that they were just poisonous people to me and that I had to get out of their trap. But DH's friend didn't get it. He comes from a close-knit, wonderful family that I'm sure has it's problems like every family, but he can't imagine the kind of stuff I went through growing up. He kept popping up with these offhand comments about "But don't you miss them? Don't you feel guilty for just dumping them?" Whatever. In the middle of a party, I didn't want to try to convince him by telling him the 2-hour version of the story and probably breaking down in tears, and it was none of his D*** business anyhow.

Finally, it got to be too uncomfortable, and I didn't know how to talk to him, but I also didn't want to alienate myself from him and the rest of the group of friends...I knew he didn't mean to be hurtful, he just couldn't wrap his head around it. So I cornered his wife. I explained it to her - and luckily, her parents had taken in a lot of foster kids over the years so she kind of understood what life was like for kids from abusive families. But it was still very hard to explain, and I did end up crying. But when it was over, I felt much better, and she somehow made him understand because he never brought it up again.

Could you talk to your brother? Or, maybe if you could just find a way to corner your SIL where you have some uninterrupted time...or even if you could write her a letter. You've shared your birth story here, so you could use that as a starting point maybe. I don't mean to say that it's any of her business - it's not. But sometimes when we're trying to get closer to someone, we have to risk some of our own hurt to reach out to them for understanding. It still might not work. But at least you would know you'd sent the underlying message of "I care enough about you and our relationship that I'm going to share this with you, so please respect my request in not making comments about my c-section experience being better than yours"

I am so full of hot air. Sorry. I hope this helps.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

You both have good suggestions. I think I'll write a letter to her for myself. Then, I can decide if I want to actually give it to her, or talk to her in person. Once I've written a letter, I _should_ have a solid idea of what I want to say to her.

I have a lot of problems with my sister and my SIL. They each have four kids, which is what I've always wanted, and probably won't ever have. They've both given birth vaginally every time (well - my sister had a vaginal and a section in one delivery - twins), which I've desperately wanted to experience since Kelly's delivery went wrong. And, they complain about being "stuck" with their kids and "coping with four" all the time. It's hard to deal with, as they've got what I want and just complain constantly! I think they're both playing one-downmanship games. I try to remind myself that I have three great kids and I'm happier than either of them. But, I guess I'm just not as generous as I'd like to be...it makes me mad and hurts me badly that they both got what I wanted out of life and neither of them appreciates it!! (Why should they, really? I probably wouldn't appreciate being wealthy and having a bunch of material junk...yet many people see that the only goal worth having.)


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
...it makes me mad and hurts me badly that they both got what I wanted out of life and neither of them appreciates it!! (Why should they, really? I probably wouldn't appreciate being wealthy and having a bunch of material junk...yet many people see that the only goal worth having.)

i think that they should appreciate it, and quite frankly i see it as part of being an adult. of course, i say this as a poor, minority woman who feels every single day the pain of not being one of the power-weilding majority.







i see their lack of appreciation as being very similar to the blindness that white privilege affords those who benefit from it. they don't understand why their comments are hurtful to you for the same reasons, and they sound to me like they have no desire to understand and therefore never will.

sorry if i'm a little... pessimistic. i had a migraine earlier tonight...


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## whimsy (Aug 6, 2004)

Quote:

So, how on earth do I respond when she says things that really hurt?? Twice now (when Evan was 10 days old and again last night), she's come out with "I know you don't like the c-section thing, but you're so lucky you didn't have to push out a 10-pounder". Last night, I responded with "I'd sell my soul to know that"
I'm glad you said something! I don't think anyone who hasn't felt sad about having a c/s would even be close to understanding.

I think I've come full circle regarding my c/s experiences. I had a rough time with my first c/s (not just the section - the whole experience was NOT what I wanted) I very much felt like I missed something. I don't think it was as much about the actual birth as much as it was about not getting to be a mother right away. The twins were preemies and I had just turned 20. The docs (all but 1) treated me like I was a little girl who couldn't possible make decisions and were not happy when I wouldn't go along with some of their ideas. (they didn't think I should try to BF) Everything got better when Caitlin got transfered to the NICU at Children's Hospital. There they validated my instincts and told me I was absolutely right about what I wanted for my babies. I really needed that!

Baby #3 (birth #2) was a VBAC I have some pretty big regrets about how I handled this birth. I was more informed (and older) and I still got pushed around. I probably have more anger about this birth than I do my 2 c/s. It was more about getting me to deliver before the lady in the next room. Not to mention that I had built up the whole vaginal birth so much that there was no way it could live up to my expectations. I had pinned all my disappointed and frustration on the way the twins had come out when it was really more about the way we were all treated afterward.

Baby #4 (birth #3) - I assumed that I would have another VBAC (but with me being more in control than last time) OB said the recommendations had changed, but that he would support me in a VBAC if that's what I wanted. About half way through, he had a rupture during a VBAC and it scared him to the core. He was honest with me and told me he was not prepared for how close they came to losing the baby. He also told me that he really didn't think it would be a problem for me since I had already VBAC'd once. He still left it up to me. After much prayer, I decided to schedule the c/s. For some reason I really truly felt led to do it that way. I believe it was the best for me and Kacie. Trusting my mother's intuition on that one. I don't doubt the decision one bit. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I had chosen a different route. I don't think it would have been a horrible outcome, but I doubt I would have been as happy.

Anyway, I think I had a great birth. I was a birth more than a surgical procedure. They listened to all my concerns. They even did a few things to make me feel better about some of things that I didn't like about the first one.
As soon as I was in recovery I heard a little voice say "mom is that you?" It was my oldest daughter Caitlin. The nurses told her to come in and talk to me. I can't tell you how special that way. Then she went and got my grandmother and I got to have a few private moments with her. (Where she told me how precious being there was for her and seeing Kacie come into the nursery right after birth and being able to sit with me while I waited to get into my room)

Anyway, if you've read all this, I'm sorry for going on so long! I've just been able to see that for me, it wasn't so much about HOW my babies were born, but a lot more about how much I was respected during the process.


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## chantald (Oct 26, 2004)

Eilonwy







for you!
I agree, that so many people (sometimes myself too) do not appreciate what they have...
Speaking for myself only.. when I get into the mode of "you are lucky because X" (ie you are lucky because your kids sleeps through the night and you don't have to nurse them 10 times a night..) I become very narrow focused.. and don't take the time to think that perhaps my statement will hurt the other person.. Perhaps they don't feel lucky that their child sleeps all night.. perhaps they wanted to nurse and could not.. perhaps they weaned before they wanted and my comment hurts them.. So to them.. I am the lucky one..
So, I am trying to think about that before I say things like that..

Lisa: your SIL and Sister might think you are lucky because you don't have 4 kids.. but you could counter that THEY are lucky to be blessed with wonderful children and are their family size is their personal choice... not limited by surgery...

I guess what I am trying to say is that often, the people who are saying 'you are lucky' are really the lucky ones too.. they just don't see it. So I am trying to 'see' it..

I am not sure I said this any better than yesterday...









Chantal


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## PaytonsMom (Aug 31, 2005)

I'm so thankful for this thread. My son is now 1 year and 10 days old and I still wrestle with the emotions. I read through many of these posts that echo my own feelings and I'm glad to know I'm not alone!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Chantal: My sister and SIL definitely think I'm lucky not to have four kids.

My SIL had a son, then married my brother and they had twins. She had her tubes tied several months later...and discovered that she was already pregnant. I think she only wanted one baby with my brother, but got three.

My sister got pregnant with her third "accidentally". (My sister has major emotional issues, many of them focussed on me, and she "forgot that she wasn't on birth control" right after I got pregnant with Emma. I'm...suspicious of what went on there.) Anyway...her husband didn't want any more kids, and she said she did (she never wanted any - she's complained about them constantly from the time her first came home from the hospital). There was some talk of an abortion, but they kept the baby...and it also turned out to be twins.

When I got pregnant with Evan, everyone was joking that it would be twins...and I was hoping they were right as I'm not getting any younger and still want four. But, it was just one large baby!

I was at a function at my son's school last night, and someone gave me the "you're lucky you had a c-section" line again. Combined with my realization that I don't even know why I gave in on this one...I'm having a very bad day. How do you forgive yourself for screwing up in a big way??


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## chantald (Oct 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
How do you forgive yourself for screwing up in a big way??










I don't know Lisa.. It took me a while to forgive myself..























I am sorry that people you don't even know are being so insensitive to keep telling you how "lucky" you are.. Perhaps having a pat response would help you shut them down and stop that situation.. Like I have a pat response for the "when are you going to wean" comment I get a lot....










Chantal


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## mommamiagal (Jan 6, 2003)

just checking in.

Aidan Joseph was born on September 6th, 12:28p.m. via c section.

Remember how I agonized over this decision. Well, the surgery was pretty cut and dry, no complications, no side effects (no shaking, throwing up, or itching), except for a lot of sweating for that night.I was released after 48 hours as well, as I hoped for. I got my staples out 5 days later, and still have the steri strips on until next Thursday.I still am pretty sore at the incision site, on one side...is that pretty normal. I do still take Motrin a couple times a day when it really bothers me, I have the 4 kids to take care of!
On top of the recovery, I am now dealing with a plug duct..lack of sleep?

One question, when are you out of the danger zone in terms of incision infection.

Thanks.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

*Welcome Aidan!!*

I had the pain on one side with my dd...it lasted for several months, but nothing else seemed to be wrong. I was hiking with dh on several occasions, and that had no effect on the pain. I figured it was nerve damage.

I don't know about internal infection, but I think you're only clear of infection in the incision itself after it closes. My most recent incision wasn't closed when I left the hospital, and it did get infected. However, dh and I cleared it up at home, with no medical assistance (aside from a prescription-strength antibiotic ointment).


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

Welcome Baby Aidan! I love that name!! (It was my boy name choice, but dh hated it. Benjamin ended up being the perfect name for us.)
I had very sharp intensive pain on either side of the incision. It would alternate sides. Not quite sure why. It finally stopped, but it freaked me out for awhile.

Lisa - I can't believe how many people you run into that feel the need to comment on what's none of their business! I agree with Chantal in having a pat response. I'm not sure what that response would be, but it might be easier to handle if you could answer back quickly, in the way you want to.


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## wenat (Apr 17, 2004)

I'm checking in too. I had a c/s with DS2 on September 10.

See birth story and baby photo here (baby photo is near the bottom of the thread).

The only weird thing about my c/s is that they did the standard "bikini" cut on the outside, but had to do a vertical old-style cut on the uterus. So the surgeon dropped by the next day to tell me that if I have another baby, it has to be a c/s because of the high-risk vertical cut. But that's okay -- I'm 38 now, and there are no more children in my future -- DH is going to be getting the next surgical procedure in our family.









I'm mostly recovered now, and it's only been two weeks after the c/s. I guess it's true that a second c/s is easier and faster to recover from.

And I'm fighting oversupply again. Some women may have trouble nursing after a c/s, but I must be the exception to that rule -- the poor kid just drowns when I get my letdown. The only calm nursing we have is when I get some time to pump out a couple of oz before he latches on.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I only had trouble with my supply for a few days, and only with dd (the one I had no labour with). Aside from that, I've always produced plenty.


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## PaytonsMom (Aug 31, 2005)

Welcome Geoffrey and Aiden!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

*sigh*
Really not liking myself today. I keep going back over my desire to VBA2C and realizing that I could have stuck to my guns just a little longer. I don't know why I gave up when I did, and I'm angry at my OB, my FP, my dh and, mostly, myself. I'm also angry because dh doesn't want another baby. The knowledge that I'm never going to experience a vaginal birth is eating at me in a big way...and it's my own fault...I really need to master self-forgiveness one of these days...

I sit here and look at my three beautiful, happy, healthy kids, and I read stories here by women who had stillbirths or lost their babies at just a few days old and I want to kick myself. But, instead of looking at how much worse off I could be, I just end up kicking myself for being so ungrateful for what I have.

Someone in another thread said that "the best day of my life is the worst day of my life". I know exactly what she means - times three. And, I really don't know how to wrap my brain around it.


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

's go easy on yourself.


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## LizD (Feb 22, 2002)

I hope it is ok to ask this question here, and it doesn't seem insensitive or intrusive. I wholeheartedly support women's choice of birth no matter what it is, no matter the reason.

I'm sure everyone is familiar with the "What NOT to say to a woman who's had a miscarriage-" there was even a sidebar on this in Mothering mag a couple of years ago. Is there such a list for women who've had cesarean births? I would like to know what NOT to say as well as what would be helpful to say. I had a friend who was so upset by her cesarean that she kind of dropped me during my pregnancy- she said she couldn't think about birth or bear to be around people planning homebirth or go to a baby shower or blessingway (I heard some of this from her, some from other people). I can understand it, of course, but I think there are a lot of people- even birth professionals- who would like to know what women would like most to hear.

I've heard some disgracefully insensitive comments, of course, the kind that make you wonder HOW someone can fit their foot in there with such ease, but would hate to think that I might be doing the same thing, similarly unaware. I also have potential VBAC clients call me and they usually have very upsetting cesarean stories they are working through. I would like to be as helpful as possible.

I'm sorry if this isn't the thread to discuss this; if there's a better place please point me in the right direction. Thanks.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Liz, I think that this is *exactly* the place to discuss it, and kudos to you for even asking the question.









"The baby is fine and that's all that matters." -- This is something that you shouldn't say to anyone who's had a traumatic birth experience; of *course* it matters.

"If you had/hadn't done 'X', you wouldn't have had a c-section." -- A lot of people at MDC and in the natural birthing world have this idea that nearly every c-section is the result of something that the mother did or didn't do. She didn't adhere to the right diet, she chose the wrong care provider, she didn't do enough research, she allowed the cascade of interventions to begin. Even if it's true, it's not something to say to a woman; believe me, those women who feel as though they could have done something to prevent their sections are beating themselves up about it more than you ever could. And, of course, there are people with stories like mine-- a prolapsed cord, or a uterine anomaly which would preclude a safe vaginal delivery. Without knowing absolutely everything about the situation, you can't know that so-and-so's section wasn't really necessary.

Those are the two big ones for me; I'm sure that others have more.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

It should be obvious, but it doesn't seem to be. If she happens to have had a big baby, _don't_ say "you're lucky you didn't have to push out such a big baby" or "I'll bet you're glad you had the section" or any variation on that theme. My son's only 8.5 weeks old, and I'm so sick of that kind of comment that I could scream!


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## chantald (Oct 26, 2004)

Hi
One of the big "shouldn't say" comments for me was the "well.. at least you have healthy mom and a healthy baby" comments or something along those lines.. Of course I was/am happy to have been blessed with a healthy baby..
I also agree with Eilonwy, that the comments of "If you had/hadn't done X" are also hard to hear..
I also hated the "well.. what happened?!" questions from complete strangers.. and this time around I dislike it when women I dont' know at all ask me "so.. how did your birth go" after sharing their birth stories (without my asking)
I also got, after both sections (from my mother ) "I can't believe the Dr let you push so long... (with the implication that they were in the wrong)
and also from my mother "Well, I hope you won't try for a regular birth the next time..."







:

What helped me the most after my second section was my MW saying to me "You are SO strong!"
A dear friend also said "It surely was a really hard decision for you to have to make, you were really strong to have made the decision you did". This also helped me validate everything I had been through prior to DD's section.
Someone else said to me "when I think of your birth story I think that it went the way a complicated birth should have gone.. with respect for the natural process and appropriate interventions when they were clearly needed" This also helped me really begin to feel at peace with my section.. because I believe that what she said is true.

HTH

Chantal


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## ShellyK (Oct 14, 2003)

Chantal, I love your perspective on this! I'm so glad you had some supportive friends that were able to say something right! Hang on to those women!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I have one good friend who was terrific. She's never had kids, and probably never will. When I was pushing for a VBA2C, she asked me one day why I didn't want a repeat section. I spent fully half an hour on the phone going over everything I hate about the experience...and she listened. At the end, she just said, "I had no idea it was such a terrifying experience. I can see why you don't want another one". There was no judgment call - no "but it's best for your baby" - no comments on how lucky I am to be here...nothing.


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## Ammaarah (May 21, 2005)

I need to join you ladies. I had my beautiful daughter Maimuna by c-sec on the 13th after a failed induction due to high BP, and I'm now dealing with treating an *open* incision...is there a puke smiley somewhere? My baby was also in the NICU for a fever, and had to endure all manner of tests including a spinal tap!







To top it off, our power was out for 4 days this week due to freak fall storms...talk about Murphy's Law. Anyway, I am obviously having some rotten feelings about the whole thing, although my daughter is a gorgeous kiddo, growing like a weed, and nursing like crazy.

Thanks in advance for your support.


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## daekini (Jun 17, 2004)

Hello, I've not been here for a while. I just wanted to check in on everyone and update...

Lisa, I'm so sorry to read that you've been having a hard time with your c-section decision. I've read (somewhere...) that we are all born and all die exactly the way we are supposed to. Your babies were meant to be born just the way they were, and while it was very hard for you I hope you can find some comfort in the fact that all things happen as they are supposed to happen.








Okay this is about the time when, if someone said that to me, I'd pop them in the nose! :LOL
I actually loathe comments like that - you know - "everything happens for a reason..." But this one has helped me somewhat.

I had intended to labor for a VBAC (my due date was in August). I had a cyst on my ovary that was being monitored and in the last couple of weeks of my pregnancy it grew fist-sized, so I had the option of either going for a VBAC and then surgery at 6 weeks post-partem, which meant no BFing for several days, or removing it during a C-section. So I chose the C-section since I was concerned about trying to pump and bottlefeed for nearly a week so early on.

I went into labor on July 29, three weeks early, and labored naturally for 12 hours. It was wonderful to experience labor! My 1st dc was born via scheduled c-section so I had never felt a labor pain. I'm glad to have felt what it's like.

My contractions were about 3 mins apart when my OB made it in to perform the Csection (she had been delayed during her rounds). I was terrified that I was going to die and never see my dd again. This c-section was so much harder to go into because of that fear. I can't even really think about the birth of my son because I was so afraid; I truly wanted to just go home and crawl in bed with my dd. I'm crying right now as I write this - This is the first time I've tried to even think about it. I almost became hysterical and forced myself to "shut down" emotionally before my dh came into the OR to be with me during the surgery. I almost had no emotion when Miles was born. I didn't anticipate having such a hard time since my previous c-section was such a beautiful experience...

BUT! Thank goodness we did the c-section!!!

Had it not been for that cyst, I would have tried for a VBAC. And that may have been catastrophic - when my OB made her first incision she immediately said "I'm so glad we didn't VBAC!" I was shocked since she really wanted me to VBAC... I asked why, and she told me that my previous incision was beginning to open up on the right side. She felt that if I'd continued to labor much longer I would have ruptured!

The cyst turned out to be a benign teratoma (one of those weird tumors with hair and teeth cells) and was successfully removed without taking out my ovary. That's good - but the recovery has been extremely challenging. The region of that ovary was very painful - and my recovery in general has been much more difficult than the way I remember my previous c-section recovery.

Anyway, that's what's up with my situation... Miles is a beautiful, sweet, easy baby - thank goodness since I've had a hard time getting around til the past couple of weeks!









ali


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Alison - it sounds as though your gut was telling you the same thing your logic was telling you! I'm glad everything worked out for you. Having an ovarian cyst would be terrifying, I think.

I'm happy you got to experience labour, as well. I've had two sections with labour, and one without, and the one without felt all wrong to me. I love labour! DH & I _might_ have one more baby, and even if I agree to a section, I'm going to insist on labouring first again.

And, I know exactly what you mean about sweet, easy babies. DD is a handful and a half, and Evan is sooo easy to deal with. My recovery was a bit rough, due to an infected incision and a move at 10 days pp. If Evan had been a difficult baby, it would have been hell. It's soooo much harder to recover when there's another little one running around...


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## mommy2girlies (Jun 6, 2005)

:LOL Hi ladies, mind if i join in? i had both a vaginal birth and an emer c-section. i do feel like i'd been robbed of the ability to give birth vaginally. w/ my first dd, she was 3 days late and my water finally broke, just a trickle. i was in labor for 21hrs and 12 of those i labored on pit. i'd had an epidural and i progressed VERY slowly..but she finally decended into the birth canal and i only had to push for 10 min...

then w/ my second dd i started having ctxn'sat 32 wks and went to the emer. room and they stopped the labor w/ tributelene (sp?) i continued having ctxn's for the next 6wks, but my cervix never softened..so i had painful contractions w/ no progressing so my ob decided that we should induce me at 39wks. (hindsight i should have said no and just let nature take its course, but i didn't) i was given cervidil at 4:30pm on mon night. june 14th. by 5am i was progressing, i was at 3cm. they removed the cervidil since i was dilating and at 9am they started me on pit. by 9:30am they started watching her heartrate cuz it dropped w/ every ctxn. they stopped the pit but her heartrate was still dropping w/ every ctxn so they decided to do an emer. c-sec. carson was born at 10:55am tues june 15th. the cord was wrapped around her neck twice and w/ every ctxn it would tighten and not let her decend. i told them i wanted to bf right away and i was able to about 45 min after she was born. i wanted this birth, like we all do, to be magical. i wanted my older dd to see her little sister immediately after her birth and it was going to be this wonderous moment in time. but i missed that moment...my husband took our newest dd and introduced her to the rest of the family waiting...my oldest kya got to meet her little sister, carson, and i never saw it. i was still in the operating room. i've seen the pictures of that moment, but all i feel is dissappointment that i wasn't there to see it or share it w/ my husband...









now i want a 3rd but my state, mississippi, doesn't regularly do vbac's. i don't want another c-section. i don't know if my wanting another child is because i want another chance at a vaginal birth...and would i be comfortable having a vbac at home, which might be my only option. that scares me a bit...what if something went wrong...we have midwifes here and i would completely feel comfortable w/ a midwife, but i don't know about having my next at home...i wish we had birthing centers here!!







:

sorry so long...it felt good to get that out and actually voice my dissappointments to women that understand....thank you


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

If something went wrong at home, a midwife would realize, I think. So, you'd probably be okay doing that.

It's ridiculous that you aren't "allowed" to VBAC in a hospital. You've only had one section, _and_ you've given birth vaginally. That sounds about as low risk as it gets to me. Doctors and malpractice insurers are completely paranoid about VBAC...makes you wonder how they can justify doing _that_ much damage to a woman's body in the first place, doesn't it?

I'm so sorry that you didn't get to see your little girl meet her sister. With my second and third, the older siblings didn't meet them until I was on the ward. So, I got to see it when they met, and I don't blame you for being upset at missing it.

As for wanting another vaginal birth, I can certainly understand that. Think about whether you want another baby, as well as another birth. If you do, I wish you the best in finding a caregiver to support you in that. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to have that birth!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I had an interesting conversation with my sister today. I was talking about my SIL's comments about how I'm "lucky you didn't have to push out a 10-pounder". My sister said that SIL has told her several times that she feels really badly for me and that even though my nephew (10lb., 1oz.) hurt a lot, she'd rather do that many times than have to have a c-section. She's also said several times that she feels terrible that I've never had the experience of giving birth.

I have to figure that the "you're lucky" comments are actually her way of trying to make me feel better about the sections...wow...


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

Wow! That's crazy Storm Bride. Well, its good that she doesn't really think that you are lucky to have had a c-sec. I wonder if her comments about family size are also her way of trying to make you feel better. At least she has your best intentions in mind even though they are comming out all wrong.







I wonder if someone could tell her that the "you're lucky" comments aren't a good idea to tell someone that had a c-sec, so she won't do it in the future to you, or to anyone else.


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## dlm194 (Mar 23, 2005)

Ammaarrah ~ I sorry that you have to join us here! Gosh, you and your poor baby have been through a lot already! I hope you are settling in. I'm so glad she is nursing well though. I'm sure you know that statistically, c-s baby are less likely to be bf so I'm always happy to see people beat those odds!!!

Kelly ~ Any possibility you could go somewhere more vbac-friendly to have another baby? I know that's a hard option but it makes me so mad when states take away a mother's right to birth the way she wants. I think you would be a good candidate for a home birth though, especially since you have already had a VB. I'm sure a midwife would know when to transfer you!


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## dlm194 (Mar 23, 2005)

Oh, and Kelly, I just wanted to say that that is one of my biggest disappointments with my c-s experience - I wasn't there when everyone found out about our baby. My dh walked out with the baby and greeted my parents her were in the waiting room. He called everyone while I was in recovery. I never saw anyone's reactions. We didnt' know the sex of our baby and I was so excited for all of us to find out but I missed out on all that stuff.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Sandy - I don't think the comments will bother quite as much now that I know this. I can try to think about it the way she seems to mean it, instead of feeling as though she envies my surgery.

How are _you_ doing?


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

Lisa - I'm glad that you can make peace with your sil's comments. It's crazy what people say when they're just trying to make you feel better.









I'm doing well on most days. I'm back at work now (at a different office) and have only had one encounter with a fellow employee (one I saw about once a week while I was pg). Apparently she hadn't heard the news and asked me how my little one was doing. I told her and she looked like she could have crawled in a hole and died. She felt so bad, I would have been ok except for the fact that she kept on saying "I'm sorry" over and over and over and over. Well, that did it. I ended up crying in the bathroom for half the morning. I'm training a new girl at work and she lost her 10yr old daughter 3 yrs ago. She ended up comming in the bathroom and consoling me. I'm so thankful that she is at our office for a few weeks. It helps to have someone there that knows what you are going thru.
On a brighter note - On monday I have my first appt with my new OB. I'm REALLY looking forward to meeting him. He is my sil's OB and I've heard REALLY good things about his practice. So on monday I get to find out when I get to ttc again. I've heard anything from 3 mo - 1yr! So, it'll be interesting to hear what his opinion is. I'm going to go with whatever he says since he will be the one seeing me thru my next pregnancy. But hopefully it will be closer to the 3 month mark.








Betcha didn't expect a novel when you asked how I was doing! :LOL


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm always half expecting a novel. If someone asks me why I had a c-section, I end up feeling as though I've told them my life story.

It sounds as though you're coping okay. I can't imagine going through what you did. My miscarriages screwed me up enough...

Good luck with your OB. I've never found a solid answer to that one, either. If I have another, I think I'll wait for the 9-month mark, as _most_ of what I've read suggests 18 months as the "magic number" where the risk decreases for VBAC. I'm looking forward to hearing how things go.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*

I have to figure that the "you're lucky" comments are actually her way of trying to make me feel better about the sections...wow...

I think probably she's trying to make herself feel better, too.

There were 2 women who I really appreciated after my c-sect. Both were women I had known a while, and had talked with about natural birth, c-sects, etc before I had dd. Both waited until after I had her to tell me about the injuries their children had during vag. birth. One had bruises on his forehead from her pubic bone. The other had a broken collarbone, "and he was really mad!" There wasn't any judgement, they just reminded me gently that vag birth can sometimes be traumatic for babies too.

I will always be grateful for these 2 women for knowing when NOT to tell me their stories, and then for knowing when to tell them to me.


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## mandalamama (Sep 1, 2004)

i'm thankful this thread is here. i'm coming up on one year now, and the c-birth still affects me, physically and emotionally.







thank you all for being here for each other.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Meli







. I'm coming up on 2 years soon, and we're ttc#2 so I know where you are coming from.


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## chantald (Oct 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dlm194*
=I'm sure you know that statistically, c-s baby are less likely to be bf so I'm always happy to see people beat those odds!!!
!


I have had 2 c/s and nused both babies. My first nursed for 2 1/2 years before he decided to wean. My second is still nursing and we are fast coming up on the 1 year mark.









I attribute nursing my first and sticking with it to pure stubborness. I had a terrible time at first.. nipple and ductal thrush..he was a terribly colicy baby.. and I think that had I had an "easy" vaginal birth... I might not have stuck with it, as embarrassing as it is to admit.. I do think that it is true..







But since I had a c/s and felt much failure in that dept.. I was determined not to "fail" again.....









With my second.. I knew I would nurse her.. I had with the first child and had made it through such a difficult time.. that I knew mostly anything that could happen would not be as bad. I was right, for me at least, it was much easier the second time around.. We had some thrush issues again.. but I knew what to look out for and how to proactivly treat it. So it was fine..

I never realized that c/s babies were less likely to be nursed.. I wonder why? Is it because of the trauma of the birth? The drugs affecting when the milk comes in? The high likely hood that the baby will need NICU care? PPD? Antibiotics?
I am curious to know...

Chantal


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

Lisa - I had my appt with my new OB today. I am REALLY happy that I switched practices. My new OB is WONDERFUL! I am 3 months post c-sec and he said that there was no reason to wait to ttc, as long as WE were ready to. YEAH! I'm not getting any younger, and I do want at least 2 children if not 3.







I will have a repeat c-sec (b/c of the circumstances surrounding the last delivery) so there will be no extra waiting time as there might be for a VBAC. I'm currently at the tail end of AF so we can start ttc REALLY soon!


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## mommy2girlies (Jun 6, 2005)

bens mommy~im so happy to hear your ob appt went so well!! sounds like you guys can ttc soon









chantald~i nursed my baby 45 min after my c-sec. i nursed my first too and she was vaginal. my second was actually easier but im positive it was cuz she was my second and i already knew what to expect. but those first 3 weeks w/ my first were the hardest thing i ever did. and i too was soooo stubborn about it and im glad i did









dlm194 and stormbride~thanks so much for the reassurance that a vaginal birth might still be an option for me. i would really like to have a third and i think if my dh finallly caves, we can start ttc soon. my youngest is 16 mos now so i think that would make it ok for a vbac. im going to really research it and see if a vbac is possible in a hospital here or if not im going to go for the homebirth. its not like i live in a very rural area so if i needed to be transferred for any reason to a hospital, they are close by...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I suspect the lower breastfeeding success rate for c/s moms is caused by two factors:

1) the milk takes longer to come in for some women (me, with my second), so it's hard to believe that it's going to work out in the end, and your baby isn't being satisfied at the breast; and
2) it's so hard to get comfortable at all, and having to sit still to nurse is very difficult.

I persisted with my first out of sheer bloodymindedness. I didn't have any of the "real" problems - no thrush, no mastitis, no plugged ducts...nothing like that. But, my nipples were one big mass of scabs and cracks for the first three weeks or a month. It hurt to feed him - it hurt to pump - it hurt to take a shower or a bath - it hurt to breathe, almost! But, I was absolutely determined - I figured that millions and millions of women had breastfed their babies, and there was no reason to believe that I couldn't. And, eventually, it was blissful.









My second was tough, too, but that's because dd was kind of...squirrelly. My milk didn't come in well, and she was a very inattentive nurser - she'd latch on about 10 times in the course of a 5 minute feeding.

DS2 is a treat. I never knew getting breastfeeding established could be this easy!


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## soccerchic21 (Jan 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chantald*
I never realized that c/s babies were less likely to be nursed.. I wonder why? Is it because of the trauma of the birth? The drugs affecting when the milk comes in? The high likely hood that the baby will need NICU care? PPD? Antibiotics?

I actually had an easier time nursing my c/s baby. He was my second though and I had nursed my first through my whole pregnancy so I did have a few good factors on my side. But his latch was perfect and he nursed like a champ from the first time.


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## Ben's Mommy (Aug 11, 2005)

Oops, I forgot we were in October! I've started a new thread, so this one won't get so long and overwhelming for newcomers. Everyone please check in on Octobers new thread!







http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?p=3874957


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