# DD (5yo) is in the 97th percentile for BMI...doc says she's in the obese category



## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

I am so confused, mamas. We just returned from our pediatrician's office where DD had her 5yr check-up. The ped was shocked to see the jump in her percentile in the BMI category, from 70th% last year to 97th percentile this year. Ped is worried about obesity. DD is a solid kid but never in a million years would I consider her obese. She weighs 56.8lbs and is 47 inches tall. She turned 5 two weeks ago. She is incredibly active, eats healthy and organic and seems to self-regulate. How much stock do you all put into BMI percentiles? Ped wants blood tests run to check thyroid, etc. and then wants to refer us to a nutritionist. I cook from scratch, use mostly organic, my kids eat an unusually large amount of fruits and veggies, very little junk, very little fast food, etc. Portions might be larger than most kids, but she's hungry because she burns so much energy each day.

Just for perspective, I'm also posting a picture of her...maybe you all might see something that I don't.

AGH! I'm feeling like a bit of a failure right now. I have worked really hard to make sure my kids eat healthy, all of our friends, family and classmates are amazed at what our kids eat and how healthy they are.

Anyway, I'd love to hear perspectives and experiences.

Thanks so much!

Taken 3 months ago:


This was taken 1 month ago...she's the one on the right. The other little girl is about 9 months older than her.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

New pediatrician time? That is ridiculous she is NOT overweight!!!


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## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Up until today I totally loved our ped. She owns the only holistic ped practice within 250 miles of us. For years, she has been supportive of our choices, non-judgemental, offering natural alternatives, etc. I think that's one of the reasons I'm so worried. It's like, if she thinks it's a big deal, it must be. She is not over-reactive by nature (quite the opposite actually).

Thanks for the reply and reassurance.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I dn't trust BMI at all, even for adults. I trust it even less for young children. I see a perfectly normal looking, healthy looking little girl. In the second picture, I see a little bit of a tummy, but it's the kind of tummy I see on lots of young chlidren, and it doesn't mean anything...except possibly that she's facing a growth spurt in the very near future.

IMO, your ped is out to lunch. Aside from the fact that the little girl in your photos is clearly not obese, there's no reason to jump to blood tests, nutritionist, etc. based on one visit! If she does happen to have a growth spurt coming up, that little bit of tummy is even more meaningless than it would be otherwise.

I'd find a new ped...or just skip the well child checks completely. My kids haven't had a well child checkup in ages. DD2's last one was either 9 months or a year, and she's 2+ now...and the others haven't been in for years...my GP (it would be very unusual to have a pediatrician doing well baby/child checks around here) saw dd1 to confirm that some growths on her face are warts last week, and he said, "Hi, dd1, how are you? We haven't seen you in here in a long time - you don't come in much - good for you!" with a strong implication that he really only expects to see kids when they're sick, and she basically never gets sick.

Honestly, I've seen soooooo many posts here over the years where a ped has caused some mama concern about her child, because of BMI, obesity concerns, etc., when the child appears to be completely healthy and happy - and usually active. It's weird. I know there are major concerns about the impact of obesity on public health (mind you, I also think that the focus on obesity, instead of on the causes of obesity, is off target), but the way it's translating into action where children are concerned is something I find worrisome.


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## JollyGG (Oct 1, 2008)

With the attention childhood obesity is getting from Washington, in the media, and basically all over doctors are getting a lot of pressure to identify and reduce the number of kids who are obese. I think it makes them a bit quick at times to jump to the issue.

At this point I would simply tell him you would like to wait and see if this is the start of a growth spurt and don't choose to do anything about it at this time, but would be happy to revisit the issue in the future if concerns continue.

A quick conversion to cm (120cm) and look at the WHO charts shows that she would be above the 95th percentile for height as well as for weight. As long as she is at a similar range for weight and height I don't see that their is anything really to worry about. Realistically a child in the 95th percentile for height would be underweight were she at the 50th percentile for weight.


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

I wouldn't call her "fat", but she's not lean. It's not necessarily a bad thing. It does depend on how healthy she is otherwise. I know 2 little girls about the same age and size as your DD. One eats very healthy. You can just tell her mom is on top of it. She never refuses fruits and veggies and is eager to try unfamiliar foods. The other one practically lives on carbs. Her dad drops her off at daycare everyday with a huge bagel and cream cheese from tim hortons, or a breakfast sandwich and donuts. Flavored milk, the whole nine yards. She eats a LOT and it's usually bad stuff. The girl who eats healthy, you can tell she's just built like that. Her mom is a larger lady too. Very tall and a larger frame (NOT fat). The other little girl's mom is very lean and smaller framed.

I can't imagine it would hurt to see if there's something more going on, unless you really think it's just genetics. How are you and dad built now? As kids? What about her siblings?


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Your ped is a moron. She isn't obese and as long as you are teaching her healthy eating habits, she'll be fine. Kids are all built differently and alot of times a kid will get rounder and then shoot up during a growth spurt. My 5 year old is roughly the same size. He isn't fat at all though he's always been in the 85-95%. Your daughter is beautiful and looks totally healthy to me!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bandgeek*
> 
> I wouldn't call her "fat", but she's not lean. It's not necessarily a bad thing. It does depend on how healthy she is otherwise. I know 2 little girls about the same age and size as your DD. One eats very healthy. You can just tell her mom is on top of it. She never refuses fruits and veggies and is eager to try unfamiliar foods. The other one practically lives on carbs. Her dad drops her off at daycare everyday with a huge bagel and cream cheese from tim hortons, or a breakfast sandwich and donuts. Flavored milk, the whole nine yards. She eats a LOT and it's usually bad stuff. The girl who eats healthy, you can tell she's just built like that. Her mom is a larger lady too. Very tall and a larger frame (NOT fat). The other little girl's mom is very lean and smaller framed.
> 
> I can't imagine it would hurt to see if there's something more going on, unless you really think it's just genetics. How are you and dad built now? As kids? What about her siblings?


That's a whole lot of judgment there. If you looked at my youngest son walking along beside me, we don't "fit". He's built exactly like his dad. My older son is exactly like me. And they both eat the exact same way. I hate the thought that people see me with my kids and assume I'm feeding them wrong because of their body type.


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alyantavid*
> 
> That's a whole lot of judgment there. If you looked at my youngest son walking along beside me, we don't "fit". He's built exactly like his dad. My older son is exactly like me. And they both eat the exact same way. I hate the thought that people see me with my kids and assume I'm feeding them wrong because of their body type.


Did you even read my whole post? I see what these kids eat every day. And I'm sorry, but kids often DO take after their parents. Not always, but if I see you overfeeding your child simple carbs every single day of the week and your 5 year old is already as big around as you, I will assume it's not "just genetics" making her heavy. It's as easy as adding 2 and 2. If that's judgmental, then I'm guilty. It doesn't make a person a bad parent, but probably misguided or uninformed. I was trying to point out to the OP that there's a difference and gave her examples so she can see where I'm coming from. This isn't about your kid, or you as a parent. There's no reason to be defensive, *especially* if you really do feed your child a healthy diet.


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Your daughter is a lovely little girl and doesn't look in the least bit overweight.

My DS is solid. He takes after his mama!







This is *not* a euphemism for fat! He is active, eats lots and lots of fresh fruit and veg, and is active (bikes to and from school every day, etc.) His BMI is high for his height too. But he's not at all fat and we don't worry about it.

If your little girl is active, eating a healthy diet, and growing normally, I'd just let it go.

I think your ped was probably having an off day and was, as a PP said, under a lot of pressure from the recent media blitzes on the issue. If you like her, stick with her (or at least bring this up with her) and I bet it won't come up again.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I entered your dd's numbers into an online kid's BMI calculator and it said 94 percentile and "at risk for being overweight".

Scrolling down the page it said "Since body mass index doesn't directly measure body fat, it is possible to be overweight but not obese. Some kids who are very athletic and have a large muscle mass, may be overweight, but if they do not have excess body fat, then they do not need help with weight loss." from http://pediatrics.about.com/cs/usefultools/l/bl_bmi_results.htm?test=1&gender=2&age=5&months=0&cwt=56.8&chf=3&chi=11

I guess I wouldn't worry about your dd's lifestyle since you know she eats really healthy food and gets lots of exercise but I wouldn't blow the health concern off entirely if there has been a big jump in weight or bmi. If the doctor you liked who typically doesn't overreact suggested the blood test then it might be worth looking into or monitoring just to be sure there isn't anything else going on that would cause a big gain. It doesn't mean you are a bad parent or that your child is doomed just to get things checked out. http://www.medicalonly.com/2008/07/09/weightgain_children_hypothyroid http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/treatments/a/WeightGain.htm


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bandgeek*
> 
> I wouldn't call her "fat", but she's not lean. It's not necessarily a bad thing.


I don't really think you meant it this way, but this comes across really, really, really badly. You're right - not being lean isn't "necessarily" a bad thing. Many kids just don't have "lean" builds. FWIW, I know five children who are clearly not eating well, and are not in fabulous health. Three of them - siblings - are obese (not "overweight", but definitely obese...one of them has such a huge frame - literally a head taller than any other child in his class - that I can't be sure, but I suspect he's morbidly obese). The other two - not related to each other - are skinny as rails. The heavy kids eat a lot of junk, and not much else. The two skinny kids eat a smaller amount of junk, and not much else. The skinny kids also come from very petite parents, and are kicked outside to play, while the heavy siblings are allowed to spend a lot of time in front of screens, and have big parents (the dad has never been obese - the mom has been, but has also been a healthy weight, but not healthy, a lot - but both parents have huge frames, big bones, etc.). So, there are differences, and the exercise level is definitely important...but none of them are very healthy, and they're on opposite ends of the weight spectrum.

However, the whole way you phrased these two sentences is kind of...obnoxious? offensive? I can't find quite the right word. Turn it around, and see how it sounds if you say, "I wouldn't call her "skinny", but she's not sturdy. That's not necessarily a bad thing". It really comes across as though the default is that not being lean (or "sturdy", in my example) is probably a bad thing, but might not be, in unusual circumstances. There were a lot of kids around with builds like the OP's dd when I was a kid...and none of the ones I kept in touch with or see around town grew up to have weight problems. I think her dd has a very normal body size and shape for her age. (Oddly enough, I was slimmer than that as a young chlid...and I'm morbidly obese. There are a WHOLE lot of potential factors at play where obesity is concerned. In my case, the causes are about 95% psychological.)

And, I'm not taking any of this personally. DS1 was always skinny, and has been "buff" (he was his high school's gymnastics team captain last year). DD1 is also very slim. I have some concerns about ds2's weight and body shape, but the ped (went to see her for something specific this summer) has no concerns at all. I don't have a dog in this fight. I just really dislike the way the "obesity epidemic" is affecting the way we look at children's bodies.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onlyzombiecat*
> 
> I entered your dd's numbers into an online kid's BMI calculator and it said 94 percentile and "at risk for being overweight".
> 
> ...


The part I bolded doesn't even make sense. "Overweight" and "obese" are separate categories, which fall under different BMI ranges, anyway. You can be "overweight", but not "obese", just on BMI, without percentage body fat even coming into the equation. The terminology here is all screwed up.

ETA: Never mind. I just read a bunch of stuff about BMI categories for kids. Ugh. I don't think most of this is going to accomplish squat in battling childhood obesity...but I between the massive onslaught of junk food, and the attempts to combat obesity in children, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see an massive increase in the diagnosis of eating disorders in another 10-15 years.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bandgeek*
> 
> Did you even read my whole post? I see what these kids eat every day. And I'm sorry, but kids often DO take after their parents. Not always, but if I see you overfeeding your child simple carbs every single day of the week and your 5 year old is already as big around as you, I will assume it's not "just genetics" making her heavy. It's as easy as adding 2 and 2. If that's judgmental, then I'm guilty. It doesn't make a person a bad parent, but probably misguided or uninformed. I was trying to point out to the OP that there's a difference and gave her examples so she can see where I'm coming from. This isn't about your kid, or you as a parent. There's no reason to be defensive, *especially* if you really do feed your child a healthy diet.


I did read your whole post. And it's full of judgment. Your very first sentence was "she's not fat, but she's not lean". The op's daughter is a perfectly healthy size, she's active, she has a good diet. And you brush all that aside with that one phrase like there's a problem with the fact that she isn't "lean". It just comes across like there is a problem not just an over zealous ped when in reality the op's daughter is probably completely fine and at her next check up the ped might not even mention her size/bmi because she's hit a growth spurt.

I'm not taking this personally btw, this is just another example of how society feels the need to pressure 5 year olds into being a certain size or shape. Completely ignoring the fact that bodies come in many different sizes and shapes and lean doesn't equal healthy, just as not lean doesn't equal unhealthy.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alyantavid*
> 
> I'm not taking this personally btw, this is just another example of how society feels the need to pressure 5 year olds into being a certain size or shape. Completely ignoring the fact that bodies come in many different sizes and shapes and lean doesn't equal healthy, just as not lean doesn't equal unhealthy.


...and ignoring the fact that a five year old's body is far from a constant, in any case. Their weight and shape is shifting on a regular basis when they're young.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

This is something that really bothers me AND seems to happen often:

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onlyzombiecat*
> 
> I entered your dd's numbers into an online kid's BMI calculator and it said 94 percentile and "at risk for being overweight".
> 
> ...


I did the same (well, looked at the CDC growth charts) and also placed your DD's BMI of 18.1 at under the 95th%.

I don't take BMI too seriously with kids for a few reasons:

1) many kids tend to grow in real "spurts." So they might put on 3-5 lbs very quickly and then grow an inch just as quickly. If you happen to measure the child between putting on the weight and putting on the height the picture is totally different than it could be in just a couple weeks.

2) kids are notoriously hard to measure. If the OP's DD measured just 1/2-3/4" taller, she would drop under the 90th%. Same thing if she was like 1-2 lbs lighter. What if she ate right before going in? Was wearing heavier clothes? Maybe she wasn't standing up right. Heck, maybe the scale was off!

3) Kids are not adult propoprtions. This is especially "hard" on bigger kids. Because their height/weight is higher people often expect them to have more adult measurements. But a 5 year old who is the height of a 7 year old will generally be heavier because they will have larger torso for height (and torsos are just heavier than that amount of leg).

And so on.

OP: What is your "mom" sense telling you? If you had no concerns until seeing the doctor and DD seems healthy and happy, I would letit go for another while at least.


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

I don't really know what to say. Maybe I didn't phrase it the best but the OP did ask for opinions. She doesn't look obese to me but with all the weight problems in this country nowadays I think people don't see it when a child is borderline overweight. They are used to seeing so many heavy kids that one borderline looks perfect. And average kids get told they don't eat enough because they look too thin compared to their peers. If this post was supposed to only be for reassurance then I do apologize. If the OP posted about an underweight child and posted a pic of child who looked a little too thin, I would have been honest then too (and I'm fairly sure that would have been perfectly acceptable given that the weight issue often only goes one way). I think the OP needs to look at different angles, which is what I tried to convey in my first post. Somehow it got misconstrued in that I'm just judgmental of fat people, end of story. I'm not. I used to be heavy myself and goodness know I have problems with overeating. I tend to speak very frankly about weight and sometimes forget that it's a super touchy subject for most people. I don't expect all kids to be exactly the same size but all too often I hear parents brushing off concerns. I applaud the OP for considering that something might be off. If she looks at everything, decides her DD is fine, then that's great.


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## wishin'&hopin' (Jun 2, 2008)

Your daughter is beautiful.

Perhaps the doctor miscalculated the BMI?

And...it's important to remember that the BMI doesn't work well for folks who are athletic--muscle weighs more than fat does. Thus, a person with a muscular build will have a higher BMI than someone without those muscles.


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## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
> 
> This is something that really bothers me AND seems to happen often:
> 
> ...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bandgeek*
> 
> I don't really know what to say. Maybe I didn't phrase it the best but the OP did ask for opinions. She doesn't look obese to me but with all the weight problems in this country nowadays I think people don't see it when a child is borderline overweight. They are used to seeing so many heavy kids that one borderline looks perfect.
> 
> ...


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## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
> 
> This is something that really bothers me AND seems to happen often:
> 
> ...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

OP, you said:

Quote:


> You're right. Muscle does weigh more than fat; I don't understand why that isn't being taken into consideration?


It's not being taken into consideration, because BMI is a number. While most places that explain it (articles, calculators, brochures, etc.) do include a comment about it not working as well for muscular individuals or those with a big frame or whatever (the mom of the overweight kids that I was talking about above has a shoulder span that's about equal that of several men I know, and those men are also over six feet tall - the woman is about 5'6"), that's overlooked when people are just using the number itself. Your dd's BMI is in a high percentile, and that's that...even though it's not.

I hate, hate, hate the BMI. There are no words for how harmful I believe it to be.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

My dd is in the 94th percentile on BMI like your dd (my online calculator said 94th, not 97th) -- "at risk of being overweight". She's in the 94th percentile for weight and the 84th for height.

The thing is, that dd has had these SAME percentages since she was an infant. Her doctor (who isn't holistic at all, but very practical, and I love her), said "well, this has been her growth curve all her life. If we see the weight and the height percentiles starting to diverge, then we need to be a little concerned." Honestly, dd came out built like a linebacker. She was OVER the 97th percentile at birth, and about the 95th for height at birth. She's got beautiful broad shoulders and a lovely little hour glass figure (from her dad's side of the family). The women in my family are chesty with broad shoulders. As one of my friends put it, "She really does look like German peasant farmer, doesn't she?" She's strong as an ox and has a fair amount of muscle and a little fat. She's never going to be a size 0 or a size 2. It's not in her genes. When she's grown and at a healthy weight, she'll be a size 10 or 12. (That's what my mom and my sisters who are at a healthy weight are.)

Dd is 4' 3 1/2" tall, and weighs 73 pounds. Her brother is 4' 10 1/2" tall and weighs 72 lbs. He's always at risk of being underweight. The thing is, if you look at their diets, dd's is probably more healthy than ds'. For her snacks, she chooses yogurt (low fat), turkey, ham, and fruit). She gravitates toward protein. Ds's pants stay up, as far as I can tell, because of the copious amounts of Nutella that he eats. He is much more likely to tend toward carbs. He stays lean because he moves constantly.

Dd is, probably, at risk for being overweight, but that's largely because she's more sedentary, and has decided that she doesn't want to do any sports where she has to "run and get hot". So, we've enrolled her in swimming. We're reducing the amount of TV she watches (it got a bit excessive at the end of the summer because I was ill). But her favorite things are to read and play imaginary play with stuffed animals (where she does things like do homework with her stuffed animals!). Her brother's favorite things are basketball and soccer. Even in the living room, he does soccer kicks with a balloon. Dd reads.

I think your doctor is concerned because her weight jumped up fairly high in the last year, but her height hasn't. But all that says to me is: Watch out for the growth spurt! If she's fairly active, can do what she wants without getting winded, and you think her diet is well balanced, I'd relax.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamatoablessing*
> 
> Thank you. This is something I asked the ped about. I said, "feel her - she's all muscle". Her response is that her build hides it well. The more I think about that comment, the more it upsets me. You're right. Muscle does weigh more than fat; I don't understand why that isn't being taken into consideration?


If you want to look intothis in the future, they can take it into account by taking a body fat measurement. My BIL was "overweight" for the Army, but they just sent him to a doctor. The doctor said he had a 3% body fat and was just super muscular. He'll never be a "healthy weight" but that doesn't mean he's unhealthy.


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## seraf (Feb 1, 2002)

She looks healthy to me. She is almost as tall as my 8 1/2 year old and weighs a few pounds more, but he is built like a bird. I plugged both my kids into a BMI calculator and he is in the 24th percentile where my DD6 is in the 95th (42" and 48 pounds). She also looks healthy.

I am going to choose not to worry on this one. I think you know your child better than her doctor does, but it would be irresponsible for the doc not to bring it up.


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## cameragirl (Apr 15, 2010)

Kids often have growth spurts around their birthdays, and then again about six months later. It is normal to put on a little weight first, and then hit a growth spurt and gain an inch or two. That growth spurt completely changes the growth chart percentiles. As mentioned above, I do see a little tummy in one picture, but she does NOT look like she's overweight. She looks like a normal, healthy five year old. Teaching her about healthy foods, and seeing her regulate her intake based on hunger is a great thing. I don't think you have anything to worry about.


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## frugalmum (Nov 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alyantavid*
> 
> I did read your whole post. And it's full of judgment. Your very first sentence was "she's not fat, but she's not lean". The op's daughter is a perfectly healthy size, she's active, she has a good diet. And you brush all that aside with that one phrase like there's a problem with the fact that she isn't "lean".


Well I could say the same thing-- she's not fat but she's not lean. She looks like she's right on the edge in terms of healthy weight, and given that there has been a big jump over one year, I would be concerned too as a mom and a pediatrician. If my 5 y.o. DD were that size I be a bit concerned and keep an eye on things







. The OP says she eats big portion sizes and a small amount of "bad" stuff. No harm in cutting out all bad stuff, even if it's minimal to begin with, and maybe keeping track of portion sizes (without making it obvious to DD) for a while just to get a clearer idea exactly how much she is eating. If she's eating within a reasonable intake level, it's probably just how she's built. But it can be easy to underestimate how much food one eats.


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## McGucks (Nov 27, 2010)

I think the child looks lovely and vibrant and healthy.

There are names for different body types: mesomorph, endomorph, ectomorph. We are all built differently and one person's "ideal" weight for their height may be quite different from another's.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frugalmum*
> 
> Well I could say the same thing-- she's not fat but she's not lean. She looks like she's right on the edge in terms of healthy weight, and given that there has been a big jump over one year, I would be concerned too as a mom and a pediatrician. If my 5 y.o. DD were that size I be a bit concerned and keep an eye on things
> 
> ...


My 5 year old is that size and there is no way in the world I will track portion sizes or cut out everything unhealthy. I do think there's harm in cutting out everything that might be considered a treat. And as a mom, I'm not concerned. My son's doctor is not concerned. I'm really surprised that there are people who think the op's daughter is on any edge of healthy weight.

There are enough girls in this country with eating issues, why add another one because of 1 comment made by a doctor? Sure, if she keeps jumping off the charts, look into it, but because one time her curve went up? No way.

Edited to change "anything" to "everything."


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## cameragirl (Apr 15, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alyantavid*
> 
> My 5 year old is that size and there is no way in the world I will track portion sizes or cut out anything unhealthy. I do think there's harm in cutting out everything that might be considered a treat. And as a mom, I'm not concerned. My son's doctor is not concerned. I'm really surprised that there are people who think the op's daughter is on any edge of healthy weight.
> 
> There are enough girls in this country with eating issues, why add another one because of 1 comment made by a doctor? Sure, if she keeps jumping off the charts, look into it, but because one time her curve went up? No way.


I would agree that have to be careful about limiting food or even mentioning weight to a child. I feel that encouraging a healthy diet as a family, and healthy physical activity is much better than even mentioning weight or cutting out the occasional treat.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Peds are crazy about this issue lately. My 2-year-old dd looks average to thin, but because she's 85th percentile for weight, her ped told me she's overweight. Nevermind she's 95th-100th for height! They don't even use logic when looking at these numbers anymore. I see the photo, she doesn't look thin but she certainly doesn't look at all obese either. I wouldn't worry about it.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

FWIW, op...my mom was just here, picking up dd1. Mom's kids were your dd's age in the late 60s (my brother) and early 70s (me and my sister), when childhood obesity wasn't a big concern. Her concepts of what children look like were formed a long time ago. She looked at your dd's picture, and thought she looked like a normal, healthy little girl. She also thought her tummy looked like a child on the verge of a growth spurt, not like a child who has a weight problem. So do I.


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

I think that your doctor is trying to be careful because so, so many children are heavy in this country.

And she sees a little girl with a healthy diet but who has had a big jump in BMI and she wants to be careful. Sometimes doctors look at the family as a whole when they think about where a diet/weight might be going. So, if you or your DP are on the heavier side that might play into her concerns. (No idea what your weight is like, just an observation because the overall health/weight of the family comes into play.)

Your daughter doesn't look overweight or obese to me but she does look stocky. She might be the perfect weight. She might be about to have a jump in height. Or she might be eating too many calories for her activity that will continue to add weight to the same frame. Your Ped is concerned that it might be the later.

I think she is being cautious and that is she is taking the difficult choice. Imagine how much easier it would be for her not to express her concerns?

My DS's BMI is also high, although he looks a little leaner overall. He used to be a bit taller in proportion of his weight. He likes food, he likes to eat, he has a terrific diet overall. We are in the habit of providing him with lots of food because he eats it. He is not super athletic and isn't very coordinated. I don't limit what he eats at all, but I am conscious of his intake because I can see how easily a shift in behaviors (less activity, less thoughtful food preparation, too many adults shoving food at him) could result in simply too many calories.

Bascially, I am *aware* of his weight and his BMI in a way that I wouldn't be with a leaner kid with a slightly lower BMI. (Our ped didn't mention his weight at our 4y checkup.)


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Yep, when the computer barks at them to give you the fat lecture, they will.

My DD has been off the charts for height and weight since she was born. Now she's almost 5'3" and is around 90 lbs, at 9 years old...which is a precipitous DROP for her her weight, but there was no gasps of horror from the ped this time! Frankly, I'm disgusted that despite the fact that DD went from *off the charts for BMI and weight* which meant that doctors called her fat every year to being underweight, they didn't express concern to me! Especially given the epidemic of eating disorders amongst preteen girls on up! It was really disturbing to me that nothing was said, wheras if she'd been 5 lbs "over" what they wanted, it'd be no problem to talk to me about her risk of obesity in front of her, like she wasn't hearing that info.

It also made a difference over who was taking her to appointments. Whenever DH took her (he is not fat) they never said anything. Whenever I did (I am) they ALWAYS said something, even if it wasn't a well-child visit.

Gross.

Did I press the issue? No--because DD eats like a teenage boy and was going through a massive growth spurt at the time, I know she'll round out eventually. But now I wish I had made a comment to the doctor about why underweight all of a sudden wasn't a concern yet a 97+ percentile weight combined with 97+ height since birth was worth commenting on, in front of her, EVERY time?


----------



## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
> 
> This is something that really bothers me AND seems to happen often:
> 
> ...


Agreed. I also think it is possible she is headed for a growthspurt.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> FWIW, op...my mom was just here, picking up dd1. Mom's kids were your dd's age in the late 60s (my brother) and early 70s (me and my sister), when childhood obesity wasn't a big concern. Her concepts of what children look like were formed a long time ago. She looked at your dd's picture, and thought she looked like a normal, healthy little girl. She also thought her tummy looked like a child on the verge of a growth spurt, not like a child who has a weight problem. So do I.


I do as well. She looks normal and healthy. But a growth spurt could be around the corner.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Very true. Both my kids put on a bit of weight before a growth spurt, and then they get tall and thinner all of a sudden.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Quote:


> I hate, hate, hate the BMI. There are no words for how harmful I believe it to be.


I agree. It's beyond meaningless.

OP, your daughter looks fine to me. Yeah, a bit of tummy-squish, but kids have that. And you can see how toned her arms are - she's obviously muscly. If she doesn't have a growth spurt, or you start noticing she's getting bigger than her classmates, or whatever, you might start considering it an issue... then. I just... I've gone back and looked at the photos three times, and I live in NZ, where the rates of childhood obesity are pretty low (as far as I know!), and I just don't see the "obese" thing. I wouldn't look at her twice (weight-wise, I mean! She's cute). You know?


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## lilmom (Nov 9, 2008)

I agree with all those who've said the BMI is meaningless and does not take into account body types, etc. It just doesn't, not for adults either.

I personally am really sick of the whole medical community not taking individual people's health/build/symptoms/etc into consideration. Everything is based on a test. Or based on a number plugged into a computer. Whatever happened to using common sense?

OP, your daughter is a beautiful child, and she looks just fine to me!!! I would probably tell this Doc that you have no intentions of subjecting your daughter to all those invasive tests without a very good reason, and you want to wait and see if she has a growth spurt.

We haven't done a well-child visit since DS was 15 months old, and he is now 4. I just hate being harrassed about vaxes, BMI, and who knows what else. You know your child best. Let intuition guide you. If you think something is wrong, then go in. But I think she looks great.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamatoablessing*
> 
> I am so confused, mamas. We just returned from our pediatrician's office where DD had her 5yr check-up. The ped was shocked to see the jump in her percentile in the BMI category, from 70th% last year to 97th percentile this year. Ped is worried about obesity.


i think you and your ped are looking at the figures in a whole different manner. she wants to find out abut why this sudden jump. if she IS eating well and everything is normal why this sudden jump. she wants to test adn rule out medical causes for the rise in weight.

to me she comes across as a concerned ped. wondering why the jump from 70 to 97 like pp said above.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meemee*
> 
> i think you and your ped are looking at the figures in a whole different manner. she wants to find out abut why this sudden jump. if she IS eating well and everything is normal why this sudden jump. she wants to test adn rule out medical causes for the rise in weight.
> 
> to me she comes across as a concerned ped. wondering why the jump from 70 to 97 like pp said above.


IMO, a concerned ped would want to see the child again in a few months, and see if a growth spurt or something had brought her back in line with her former growth curve. A paranoid ped would be talking about blood tests. In the absence of any other sign of problems (eg. low energy, low muscle tone, inability to exercise at a normal level for her age, etc.), jumping to blood tests is premature. The last thing a five year old girl needs, especially in this culture, with its wigged out ideas about body shapes, is to get the idea that having a bit of a tummy
and being bigger than average automatically means there's a medical problem.

Personally, I'd dump the ped, but as I said above, I don't do well child visits, anyway. But, if I were going to keep the ped, I'd refuse the recommendation of blood work. If I wanted to mollify the doctor (which is far from my personal mission in life), I'd see about rescheduling a visit in 3-6 months, so that he/she can monitor the little girl's BMI. (Despite the widespread popularity of this particular number, however, I'd have trouble trusting the competence of anyone who has this much faith in it...especially when they're getting a different number than three other people checking it out.)

ETA: And, re: "why this sudden jump?" I don't even get the question. Before we started worshipping at the altar of the almighty BMI, and obsessing over children's weight, I saw kids get a little thicker, then sprout up, then get a little thicker, and then sprout up, then get a little thicker, and then sprout up - over and over and over. If we'd been tracking those children's BMIs, I'm very sure we'd have seen a lot of sudden spurts, which resolved themselves equally suddenly. This is very, very common, ime...and I'd be very wary of a ped who thought "blood tests for thyroid" before he/she thought "wait and see if she outgrows it". Of course, that's if I thought the girl in those pictures had a problem in the first place, which I don't.


----------



## rubidoux (Aug 22, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frugalmum*
> 
> Well I could say the same thing-- she's not fat but she's not lean. She looks like she's right on the edge in terms of healthy weight, and given that there has been a big jump over one year, I would be concerned too as a mom and a pediatrician. If my 5 y.o. DD were that size I be a bit concerned and keep an eye on things
> 
> ...


Are you saying that you are a pediatrician? If so, I'm curious if this is the advice you'd give if a child built like OP's dd came in.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
> 
> Yep, when the computer barks at them to give you the fat lecture, they will.
> 
> ...


That is really disturbing all the way around -- that they weren't the least bit concerned about 90/5'3" (though I do see why you aren't worried) and that they have different concerns depending on the parent who brings her. Ugh. Makes me wonder if it's because they assume that a fat parent would feed her badly or that she's got fat genes, probably both I guess. Either way, though, horrifying. And I cannot believe they have these conversations with you in front of her! That is just so unbelievable to me. It must be unthinkably terrible for a young girl to be told that she's fat by a professional. OP, did they have the convo with you in front of your dd, too?

My boys are both super short, like 5-7th percentile. My 8 year old has always been very delicately built. I have always worried a little about the possibility of him being under weight, but he has always been around the 40th percentile for BMI, oddly enough. He almost never wants to eat, but when he does eat, it's usually for about three days straight. He loves treats, but he'll eat a half a pack of m&m's and tell me he's had enough. I do my best to stay out of it and let him self-regulate, except that I do make him eat b'fast because he goes to school and doesn't have another chance to eat until lunch. My little one, though, was born a pound heavier and just blew up. He was a big rolly polly baby. He was what I had always thought a healthy baby looked like until I had my first and he was so petite. But I worried about Aug being big just because it was so different from his brother. Then when he was old enough to be walking around he didn't look fat to me at all, but I would say stocky and solid with a belly. It worried me because of all the fear mongering going on in the media now (which I think is SO unfortunate and misguided). And he doesn't self-regulate like Milo. He wants nothing but carbs and if he has something yummy in front of him he'll eat too much of it. So, when I took him in, guess what, he was in the 7th percentile for BMI!!! I don't get it at all. Everyone who looks at my two kids agrees that Milo is petite and delicate and Augie is more stocky. I think it must be as previous poster's are saying -- there was an error in measurement of math or something. Or BMI is truly meaningless.

I think your dd is the picture of health, OP!


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## jenrose (Apr 25, 2004)

My now 18-year-old was HUGE as a baby. 24 pounds at 6 months old. Her rolls of fat had rolls of fat. I didn't worry about her being 99th for weight, because it was all breastmilk.

And what do you know... at 1 year, she was 26 pounds.

And about 3 weeks before she turned 2, she was 27 pounds.

Then at her 2 year well check, she was 30 pounds and only 50th percentile for height, and our idiot family practice doc (long since fired) tried to lecture me about how she was obese. I said, "She put on 3 pounds in the past 3 weeks after barely gaining for an entire year. I'm pretty sure we're looking at a growth spurt."

Sure enough, boom, a couple weeks later, she put on a couple inches.

And gosh... at 18 years old, she's now 5 foot 4 and about 140 pounds, and as she has had her entire life, she has a wide frame, strong bone structure (at her very, very leanest she is too skinny when she's 130 pounds, because she has wide hips and shoulders and big bones), and she's not the least bit fat or overweight, has the healthiest food habits in the family, and is relentlessly normal in size.

She managed to not gain a pound or an inch in 2 years somewhere in grade school... then one month she pudged a little bit, then grew an inch overnight. Literally woke up and said, "Mom, my feet are farther away." She put on 6 or 7 inches in a few months.

There is nothing linear about growth for a lot of kids.

My younger daughter won't grow at all if she doesn't have a little fat pad on her, it's a metabolic thing, I think, part of her chromosome disorder. Also, both kids have long torsos, and thus tend to run heavier for their height than kids with long legs. Shiny, especially, is that way... she outgrew her car seat rated to 65 pounds 7 inches early because her torso is just that long. And torso is HEAVY compared to legs for a lot of kids.

As for the OP, she's a lovely little girl, and looks like she has a great bone structure and just the right amount of padding for a kid getting ready to grow. Before anyone gets on her case about her weight, they better darned well watch for a few months and see what happens growth-wise, and if they're still concerned, actually MEASURE her body fat, rather than make blanket statements based on idiotic height/weight-based analysis from a single doctor visit.

When K (my oldest) was in preschool, she wasn't at all fat, but she was wider than the kids around her, and it was all about bone structure. She's still got Great Dane puppy hands and feet compared to her height... her bones really ARE bigger and wider for their length than the kids around her.

 Age six .

12-ish?

And just before senior year


----------



## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> IMO, a concerned ped would want to see the child again in a few months, and see if a growth spurt or something had brought her back in line with her former growth curve. A paranoid ped would be talking about blood tests. In the absence of any other sign of problems (eg. low energy, low muscle tone, inability to exercise at a normal level for her age, etc.), jumping to blood tests is premature. The last thing a five year old girl needs, especially in this culture, with its wigged out ideas about body shapes, is to get the idea that having a bit of a tummy
> and being bigger than average automatically means there's a medical problem.


StormBride would u really dump the ped? even after the OPs second post about the ped? would u not give the ped a second chance? just coz its weight? body images and wigged out ideas?

it seems the ped has supported the mama all this while. could we not give her the benefit of the doubt? could she have been whigged by a recent case and freaking out? i mean if it was growth spurt she should have already seen this trend shouldnt she in her well baby visits? dd does the same thing. goes rounder and then suddenly almost overnight shoots up. since i've noticed since 4 dd had done the same thing for the last 5 years. if the ped has been seeing her she should see this pattern shouldnt she? of course provided she saw her at the same time. i mean it just blows my mind that a ped of all persons did not factor in growth spurt.

i understand where you are coming from - where everyone is coming from but dump the ped over this? just coz its a body issue - i dont think so.

if the world thinks OPs dd is fat they are going to let her know pretty soon. dd is tall and broad and stocky. and in the same category as OPs dd. however dd looks it. she has a tummy, she is 4'9" and a 100 pounds. and guess what? she is the same as her father and uncle when they were that age plus she has a mother who has 'heavy bones' (how i have always 'looked' and what my weight said has always been different). the world has been calling her fat since she was 5 years old. including her own father. i've had to counter that a lot to make sure dd doesnt get a complex. i guess so far she hasnt since she chose a bikini for a swim suit.

i would give the ped one more chance instead of dropping her like the plague. plus i am curious what else she asked and discussed.

did she bring up growth spurt, family genes...?

looking at OPs dd there is no way i would call her fat.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

OP, however you decide to follow up/not follow up on this, I just wanted to share as the mom of a tall teen dd (97th percentile). My dd is lower in weight percentiles right now than height, prob 75th, but that's because at a certain point in puberty, kids just shoot up. As in, 6 plus inches in a year! I think that it is extremely important to tread very carefully, esp. at such a young age, around issues of weight, BMI, etc. It can become such a loaded issue for girls-I wouldn't emphasize it at all except for healthy portion sizes and plenty of exercise-but these are things that seem like they are already part of your family.

I wonder why your pedi isn't waiting for another visit to watch for a trend vs. concern at a one time visit?


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## wishin'&hopin' (Jun 2, 2008)

I was a solid kid, who became an overweight/obese teen and then a solid adult. I REMEMBER feeling "fat" at age 5--comparing myself to more petite classmates. Now, I look back at those photos of little five year old me and realize that I was FINE--just a sturdy and strong little girl. I wish my parents had encouraged my athleticism and helped me to love myself as me, rather than feeding into my notion that I was "fat". For me, it became a self fulfilling prophecy--I became embarassed to run and play, since I was bored I ate mindlessly, since I ate mindlessly I became overweight, because I was overweight I was uncomfortable running and playing. So, you see where this train went. Even now, my mom desperately wants to know what I weight--so she can compare my weight to her own, to my sisters, to her sister etc. She tells me the height and weight of my niece (who she is raising) and all in all has a bizarre way of comparing/affirming our bodies. I don't feed into this--it's actually the reason I never asked for/recorded my weight in pregnancy, that way, when mom asked I could say "I don't know".

That said, I've worked with preadolescents/teens that have expressed that they are "fat"--and regardless of body type and actual numbers, my response has always been "Does your body do all the things that you want it to do? Can you run, play, dance, sing? Can you ride your bike and enjoy hikes? Than stop worrying, your body is beautiful and strong!"

BMI is a tool, but when you use a sledge hammer when the finesse of a screw driver is needed you'll just destroy what you're trying to create...


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

I think the pediatrician is concerned because of the sudden jump in BMI....not the numbers themselves. She's probably looking at the bigger picture of America where a lot of children (especially girls) start to be become overweight or obese around the time they hit school age. I agree that blood tests and nutritionist is a bit much, it would make more sense to keep an eye on it and see what happens. Yes, it could just be due to a growth spurt. But, many children do start to become obese around that age . This is just from my own observation (so I don't have any data), but one thing I have observed is that as kids (especially girls) get older, the percentage of children that are obese increases. In other words, I personally feel like I have observed more obese 10 years olds than obese 7 year olds, and more obese 7 year olds than obese 5 year olds, and more obese 5 year olds than obese 3 year olds, etc.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

I would not hesitate to do the blood work and I would not dump the ped-I would wait to see the results and talk them over and see what really did cause the jump. If it is a growth spurt so be it. Why not rule the chance that there is another issue out?

Waiting another year and IF there really is a problem the ped would be attacked for not acting sooner.

Mostly healthy foods and a jump does not always equal a grow spurt, it can be there also can be much more going own.

Do the blood work and go from there.

Looking healthy and being healthy are two different things.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> IMO, a concerned ped would want to see the child again in a few months, and see if a growth spurt or something had brought her back in line with her former growth curve. A paranoid ped would be talking about blood tests. In the absence of any other sign of problems (eg. low energy, low muscle tone, inability to exercise at a normal level for her age, etc.), jumping to blood tests is premature. The last thing a five year old girl needs, especially in this culture, with its wigged out ideas about body shapes, is to get the idea that having a bit of a tummy
> and being bigger than average automatically means there's a medical problem.
> ...


Yes to all of that. I totally understand why a ped could be concerned with a big jump like that. But a good ped would want to see her again in a few months, not rush to blood tests and a nutritionist. Blood tests would not be my first step in this case.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

What exactly is this BIG harm in having a blood work done? yes there is a problem or no there isn't

or just keep waiting and find out later you really have a problem and live with knowing that you did nothing when it was presented to you-I would not want to live with that

And where is it that after the results are back the ped won't want to meet with the child? I read what the OP wrote and I did not get that the dr was not going to follow up.

Most doctors DO NOT set follow up apts until the results are back-why is this somehow different?


----------



## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> What exactly is this BIG harm in having a blood work done? yes there is a problem or no there isn't
> 
> ...


I'm just imagining how traumatic a blood draw would be for my 5 year old. And waiting a few months to see if it's something as simple as a growth spurt is not doing nothing.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alyantavid*
> 
> I'm just imagining how traumatic a blood draw would be for my 5 year old. And waiting a few months to see if it's something as simple as a growth spurt is not doing nothing.


Well, I would prefer a minute long trama over a blood draw than to ignore a potential problem for "a few months".


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

Your Ped is a moron. She is perfect.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Well, I would prefer a minute long trama over a blood draw than to ignore a potential problem for "a few months".


totally agree---ignoring a simple draw - what happens if (AND THIS IS NOT SAYING IT IS THE CASE HERE!) that there is a problem- such as diabetes or thyroid or something else and the child needs to start having regular blood draws? I don't know the family history here- the dr may suspect something - why not error on the side of caution?

another thing they also needs to be considered (if the OP has insurance-even state plans) insurance plans simply will not cover waiting a few months and doing another "well visit" - one per year unless there is a problem- the Dr is being proactive and addressing a increase and requesting blood work to see if another visit is warranted

what happens if there is no hight increase and the child continues to gain weight- is it only at that time it is an issue?


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> totally agree---ignoring a simple draw - what happens if (AND THIS IS NOT SAYING IT IS THE CASE HERE!) that there is a problem- such as diabetes or thyroid or something else and the child needs to start having regular blood draws? I don't know the family history here- the dr may suspect something - why not error on the side of caution?
> 
> ...


I guess I am a little touchy about this right now. A good friend of mine's DD was feeling a bit unwell for a few weeks. The Ped eventually suggested a CT scan, which my friend wanted to refuse, as she was concerned about the radiation. In the end, though, she did take her DD for the scan. They found a cancerous tumor, and her DD is now undergoing chemo. Her chances of recovery are much higher than they would have been had my friend decided to wait and see for a few months.


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> ...


I also know. Many people don't have to feel unwell to have a problem.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I am always the one who thinks if the doctor says she's obese, then she probably is. Too many people are being ignorant to what's happening to their kids.

Last night, I met a friend at the gym. She brought her two sons. The youngest (almost 3 yrs old) had a stack of bologna in his hand. He was downright obese. So, after the kids were in the playplace, we were talking and she said her doctor wants something done for the 3 yr old asap because he's Obese. She was highly offended, and thinks he's fine. I asked her how much he weighs. She said "He's 69lbs". I said "That is morbidly obese, and he was eating at least five pieces of bologna...no child needs to eat five slices of anything for a snack".

My daughter was considered possibly too thin when she was in grade school. She was going to turn six in September, and she weighed 49 lbs. The doctor was giving me ideas on how to put more weight on her. He said she was in the 20th% for her height. (He was really adamant about it too)

But, your daughter isn't that much heavier than my daughter was at that same age. The only difference is there's 15 years between them. Maybe the charts have changed?

I think if you are not letting her snack the entire day, and she plays outside, then she looks perfect and beautiful to me. You can be watchful, and consider what she eats and how often, but other than that, I wouldn't think of her as overweight at all. I would have no problem saying she needs to thin out a bit if I thought she did. But, I think the charts are wrong this time.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamatoablessing*
> 
> The ped was shocked to see the jump in her percentile in the BMI category, from 70th% last year to 97th percentile this year. Ped is worried about obesity.


This would concern me too though. I think the doctor is just doing his job.

I would try to cut down on portion sizes, and maybe cut back on the treats.

But, I still think she's absolutely beautiful and perfect.


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## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

I really wish pedis would look at the child, not just the numbers. I have the same problem regarding my oldest. He's got a 6-pack and you see the muscles in his back at 6 years old but the pedi says he's obese.







Your DD looks fine and I'm guessing she'll shoot up in height fairly soon.


----------



## rubidoux (Aug 22, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> What exactly is this BIG harm in having a blood work done? yes there is a problem or no there isn't


If there's a good reason to do one, then it's worthwhile, but I don't think the trauma it would cause most five year olds is anything to scoff at.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> totally agree---ignoring a simple draw - what happens if (AND THIS IS NOT SAYING IT IS THE CASE HERE!) that there is a problem- such as diabetes or thyroid or something else and the child needs to start having regular blood draws? I don't know the family history here- the dr may suspect something - why not error on the side of caution?
> 
> ...


If I were the parent here, I'd be willing to wait and see if she continues to gain. Why not? We act, in this culture, like gaining a little weight is about the worst possible thing that could happen, but we're talking about a little girl who is healthy and feeling good and happens to have some whacked out BMI number that doesn't seem to correspond with how she's looking or feeling. The *only* issue here is a BMI number. I feel like it's quite common of kids that age to have a little extra padding that they grow out of (not saying that OP's dd looks padded) and my guess is that she's not on her way to being overweight but on her way to getting taller. Why not wait and see?

Also, if there was a reason for this ped to think OP's daughter has a real medical problem, she should have told her what it was. I can't believe that the BMI alone is reason to jump to that conclusion.

There is also an issue that doing testing can uncover benign transient variations from normal that lead to worry and further invasive testing and treatment. I don't know a lot about this, but apparently there is an accepted belief amongst scientists/doctors that most of us go in and out of disease states without ever knowing it. If you're symptomatic it probably means your body is having a hard time and needs help, but if you do random testing when there aren't symptoms, then you may end up testing/treating/worrying about something that would have resolved on its own. I think it's true (maybe someone else will know more about this?) that the vast majority of cancers come and go without ever being detected, leaving our bodies no worse for wear. I think people who find those benign/transient variations and pursue them (because once you know about them, how could you not?) can experience real trauma from it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> 
> I guess I am a little touchy about this right now. A good friend of mine's DD was feeling a bit unwell for a few weeks. The Ped eventually suggested a CT scan, which my friend wanted to refuse, as she was concerned about the radiation. In the end, though, she did take her DD for the scan. They found a cancerous tumor, and her DD is now undergoing chemo. Her chances of recovery are much higher than they would have been had my friend decided to wait and see for a few months.


That's so scary and terrible. I'm happy she caught it early.


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## insidevoice (Feb 16, 2011)

She looks quite healthy to me.

I say that however, as a woman who will ALWAYS have a very high BMI. I have a huge amount of muscle for a woman (and I tend to follow genetics in my family and carry some weight over it as well! Egad- horror of horrors!!) It took me a lot of years of an eating disorder as a teen and young adult to make peace with my body shape because I was convinced I was 'fat'. I was held hostage as I tried to achieve the 'right' numbers on a scale, and that wasn't what was right for my body.

I finally made peace with my body when I survived a cancer that was diagnosed as terminal. At that point, I realized that simply being aware of what I was eating and trying to live an active lifestyle was a lot more important than praying to the almighty scale and trying to hit the right BMI. My body is strong, and I am very happy with it as it is- even the squishy bits. 

My kids are all over the place. My oldest is FINALLY over 70 lbs- she's gained about 20 lbs in a year as she hit puberty, and she's beginning to develop breasts and hips. For the first eight years of her life we had to fight to get her to gain weight at all. My middle child is about 40lbs now- at age three and has been close to that weight for about a year now. He was a very rolly poly little one, and not very physically active. Now he's tall and solid, and while one month he will look chubby, the next he will look quite lean- all hinging on growth spurts. My youngest is almost 30 lbs, and two years old. He's never looked terribly chubby, but looks quite 'average' all the time. In reality though, he is the child who carries the most body fat. Numbers on a scale can be misleading.

Maybe we need to focus on health as a family issue- instead of looking to make weight the individual issue as we currently are. Yes, there is a major problem with obesity in this country, but shaming children and parents isn't going to be the cure. Enabling access to healthy foods at reasonable cost, ensuring that people can afford to exercise when the weather outside isn't good, educating people about how to build healthy habits and quick meals- with healthy foods, and finding a way to make this a priority as a country without the outcry from people screaming 'entitlement programs!!' - THESE might actually make a difference. Telling someone that their healthy and active child is overweight because she doesn't fit into the perfect chart position is a knee-jerk reaction that just supports finger pointing and blame instead of collaborative effort to make health and wellness a priority for everyone.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meemee*
> 
> StormBride would u really dump the ped? even after the OPs second post about the ped? would u not give the ped a second chance? just coz its weight? body images and wigged out ideas?
> 
> ...


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> What exactly is this BIG harm in having a blood work done? yes there is a problem or no there isn't
> 
> ...


What does a follow-up after blood work have to do with what we're talking about? They're two completely different things.

We have different priorities. I'm not going to tell my dd that her body is so screwed up that she needs medical diagnostics run on her, just because a "tool" as useless as the BMI has produced a big number. (And, I'm stlil wondering why the ped got the 97th percentile, when posters in this thread have used the same height and weight to get 94th and 95th

And, quite honestly, after seeing some of the idiotic things some of my friends and family members have been told by nutritionists, I don't think I'd be in a big hurry to go that route, either...not without a really, really major indicator that something was wrong. One high BMI, in a child who's at an age where her body is changing regularly, isn't a really, really major indicator.

With respect to your comments about finding out it was a big problem, and/or the ped being attacked...not an issue. Unless the ped was suspecting something imminently life threatening, I'm not going to beat myself up over waiting three months to avoid putting my child through the ringer. ("Here, honey - this nice lady is just going to stick a needle in your arm and take some blood, because we have to make sure there isn't a medical reason why you're so fat" is not trivial, imo.)


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> 
> Well, I would prefer a minute long trama over a blood draw than to ignore a potential problem for "a few months".


"Minute long trauma"? Seriously? I've seen kids crying an hour after blood work, because the pain was worse than they were expecting, and they completely freaked out. Maybe OP's dd wouldn't be like that. Maybe she would.


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> Peds are crazy about this issue lately. My 2-year-old dd looks average to thin, but because she's 85th percentile for weight, her ped told me she's overweight. Nevermind she's 95th-100th for height! They don't even use logic when looking at these numbers anymore. I see the photo, she doesn't look thin but she certainly doesn't look at all obese either. I wouldn't worry about it.


This actually bothers me MUCH more than the OP. The OP's pedatrician at least makes *logical* sense--- this is complete nonsense. I'm not doubting you, I'm just doubting I could ever trust a medical doctor with such a poor understanding of simple mathematics.


----------



## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

BMI is problematic, especially for children.

All my sons are very lean. Very. So scrawny that when I posted photos of them swimming, I felt like I needed a disclaimer "Yes, I AM feeding these children!" You can count every rib front and back, and all their vertabrae.

So they aren't fat. Not even close. And yet my middle child has a "borderline high" BMI. Why? Maybe because he is very compactly build? Could it be that he is well-muscled for a kid of his build? It's certainly not an excess of fat, lol.

She's a beautiful little girl. She looks tall and well-fed. It is normal for little kids to have some roundness and "extra padding". My youngest still does, and he's just as lean as the others. But around the face, and on his arms, he's still nice and squishy.  And that's not bad. If she is active and you are feeding her healthy and nourishing foods, I don't think you have anything to worry about at all.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> totally agree---ignoring a simple draw - what happens if (AND THIS IS NOT SAYING IT IS THE CASE HERE!) that there is a problem- such as diabetes or thyroid or something else and the child needs to start having regular blood draws? I don't know the family history here- the dr may suspect something - why not error on the side of caution?
> 
> ...


I'm still trying to figure out why you (or the ped) would have any suspicion of diabetes or thyroid issues? I really think that if there were a family history of such problems, OP would have mentioned that in her OP, since she was looking for advice and opinions about her dd's weight and health.

re: the insurance aspect. If the OP's ped is concerned about her dd's weight, and wants her to come back for monitoring, why would that be considered a second "well visit"?? I know your system is completely screwed up, but I had no idea that monitoring a potential medical condition (and I do not believe there is one here, but the ped does) was the same thing as a "well visit". And, your politicians still have the nerve to talk about you having "health" care??? Really? It boggles my mind that they'll pay for blood work (and referral?), but not a follow-up visit.

As to your last question, I'm not even sure how to answer that. *Yes* - it's only at that time that it's an issue. As it stands, unless the OP left a lot of info (family history of diabetes, thyroid, etc.) out of her post, there is no evidence of an issue, except a completely meaningless number.

Another poster also mentioned being labeled "fat", because she was a larger child. That's part of what happened to me, and I've seen it happen to a couple of other people I knew when I was a child. "Fat" can be a self-fulfilling prophecy, and we need to be a lot more cautious about how we throw around sentiments about children's weight. Convince a child that she's fat, and it's not that unlikely that she will be...especially if she was already doing almost everything "right".


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
> 
> This actually bothers me MUCH more than the OP. The OP's pedatrician at least makes *logical* sense--- this is complete nonsense. I'm not doubting you, I'm just doubting I could ever trust a medical doctor with such a poor understanding of simple mathematics.


We are in the process of transferring our kids' medical records to a different pediatric office. I was so frustrated by this doctor.


----------



## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> 
> Well, I would prefer a minute long trama over a blood draw than to ignore a potential problem for "a few months".


It wouldn't be a minute long trauma for many 5 year olds, mine included. And yes, I'd wait a few months over this. A child who's weight increased faster than their height is not a problem. It's very very normal. I don't see anything in the op, except the weight %, that is causing all this worry.

For the pp who mentioned the kid who ended up with a tumor, that's not even remotely close to this case. I'd give serious thought to a ct scan before I agreed to it, it isn't something to be taken lightly. That argument's just not valid. Anything could be wrong with anyone regardless of how they feel and grow, so should just start giving kid ct scans, mri's and blood tests randomly, just in case?


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> We are in the process of transferring our kids' medical records to a different pediatric office. I was so frustrated by this doctor.


That's great! I can't even imagine trying to not explode if faced with that. Good luck with your new office


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Ped wants blood tests run to check *thyroid, etc.* and then wants to refer us to a nutritionist.


Quote:


> I'm still trying to figure out why you (or the ped) would have any suspicion of diabetes or thyroid issues?


ahhhh many be the OP didn't disclose everything here

apparently you are unaware that you do not need to have a family history of thyroid conditions or be diabetic to have a problem

I know of two children who have no family history and both children have problems that were found via a blood draw and both were not "obese" but it was found after a well visit exactly as the OP's visit seems to have gone.

a "follow up visit" is not a "well visit" totally different

if the OP does not do the blood work and does not have a "follow up" following the results and only request a "well visit" later within the same year-MOST insurance companies will not cover it

"well visits" are not "sick visits"


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

OP, how you doing today?

You have had, up to now, a good relationship with your ped? You've trusted her? Has there been another instance where she's given bad advice?

Rather than dropping her I think you should go back to her and ask her to explain more. Tell her that the last visit really left you shaken and upset, and that you disagree with her conclusion that your dd is overweight. Tell her the things you told us. Ask her how much stock does she put into the bmi calculator and why. It's completely fair to challenge her to convince you.

And it doesn't have to be a big confrontation, it can be a friendly visit. But instead of stewing about it here, go back and ask her to explain herself more.

Think of her as a resource and take advantage of that.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

It looks like her weight and height are in the same percentiles so I don't think there is anything to worry about. A child in the 97th for height should also be around that percentile for weight (this is how my dd's pediatrician explained it when I had concerns about my dd being in the 70th percentile for weight when she was in the 75th for height). If she was a lot lower in her height percentile than she is now then it would be a problem, but IME the pediatrician has always looked at the whole picture not just one part of it.


----------



## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


> ("Here, honey - this nice lady is just going to stick a needle in your arm and take some blood, because we have to make sure there isn't a medical reason why you're so fat" is not trivial, imo.)


Holy cow, Storm Bride. Is that the way you talk to your kids? I doubt it. Way to hyperbolize.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> ahhhh many be the OP didn't disclose everything here
> 
> ...


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journeymom*
> 
> Holy cow, Storm Bride. Is that the way you talk to your kids? I doubt it. Way to hyperbolize.


No - the point is that it doesn't matter what you say to your kid, because that's what's happening. The doctor says her dd is too fat, and she needs to determine if there's a medical reason. There is no way to honestly answer a child's questions about why they're getting blood work that isn't going to come down to "you're so fat that the doctor thinks you're sick" whether you ever actually use those words or not.

Personally, I see the odds of this whole thing triggering issues in the OP's dd as a lot higher than the odds that there's actually a problem. The OP has to make her own decision, obviously. I wouldn't get the blood work or see the nutritionist...and I probably wouldn't go back until the next well child visit (if I did them) unless I noticed her weight going up).


----------



## cameragirl (Apr 15, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journeymom*
> 
> OP, how you doing today?
> 
> ...


I agree that it would be a good idea to ask for a better explanation than to just drop her, since the doctor may have a genuine concern. I believe that weight should NOT be mentioned by the doctor in front of the child. That is something to discuss with just the parent, especially when the child is obviously not ridiculously overweight. Maybe you can ask for a consult without your daughter present. That would allow you to discuss the concerns in depth without the worry of causing issues with your daughter being worried that she's "fat." As far as other conditions, it is always a possibility. I'd probably opt for a follow-up before blood tests. Diabetes at that age would generally cause weight loss and other symptoms like increased urination. I don't think that is the issue. With the thyroid, you'd also see other symptoms such as fatigue. Unless there is a family history, that likely is not the issue.


----------



## Roar (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Personally, I see the odds of this whole thing triggering issues in the OP's dd as a lot higher than the odds that there's actually a problem.


Yes, exactly.

Did the doctor talk about this in front of your daughter? I'd be really upset about that and yes I would move on.

I think it is alarmist and bizarre to suspect a thyroid problem in a child who looks like the child pictured and who clearly by her mother's reports is active and feels healthy. For what it is worth, I can think of more think of more than a handful of kids who had similar builds at that age and came from families with healthy eating habits. None of them would be considered overweight as teenagers.


----------



## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journeymom*
> 
> OP, how you doing today?
> 
> ...


OP here. Thanks for so many thoughtful and helpful responses.

DH and I are feeling much better after taking the afternoon and evening to read this thread and talk over the whole situation. First off, this was NOT discussed in front of DD either at the ped's office or at home. The kids were playing in a separate room at the doctor's office so that the ped and I could talk. DH and I have agreed this will not be talked about with anyone else including friends, family, nanny, etc. We are taking no chances that somehow it gets back to DD that she "fat". It's hard enough to be a girl, growing up in a society that expects women to look a certain way and we are certainly doing everything we can to prevent our girls from having body image issues. He was actually even annoyed with me that I posted about it here...I assured him of the anonymity of this particular board but it still made him feel uncomfortable that I'm even putting it out there. He is really worried that DD will find out and be really hurt and traumatized by the "diagnosis".

I think I'm going to take the above poster's advice and call the ped back. I'd like to present her with some of the information and experiences posted on this thread and let her convince me the blood tests are necessary. As I said before, I have a great deal of respect for her (she is holistic and has always been not only supportive but encouraging of our choices). This is the first time I have felt like she is over-reacting.

A few people have asked about us, as a family. DH and I are both very average. I'm 5'5'' and weight about 150. DH is 6'1'' and weighs about 185. Our oldest DD is 7yo and she is tall and skinny. She has a totally different body type than DD though...long legs and built like a stick. It's actually how I looked as a child, until I hit about 25yo. We have no history of thyroid issues, diabetes, metabolic disorders, etc.

I also really paid attention to her eating/exercise yesterday (and this is a normal day for us). She had a sandwich on whole grain bread (1/2, not a whole), hummus and veggies and some homemade minestrone soup for lunch, with cantaloupe after. Normal kid sized portions. She played outside, riding her bike and scooter for 1/2 hour before lunch and 1/2 hour after lunch. During the day, she had snack - these new vegan muffins we sell at the health food store we own. She ate 1/2. It is raw, whole grain and made fresh. Before dinner, we went on a 3 mile run. While, I ran and the kids rode their scooters. But 3 miles is a lot for a 5 year old and she rode a block ahead of me the whole time! We came home from the run/ride and she played with the neighbors on our play set for 1/2 hr. At dinner, I made Mongolian Beef and added carrots, zucchini, broccoli and served it over udon noodles. She had a kid-sized helping and then wanted seconds. DH and I decided to let her have seconds...it's a totally healthy dish. She had a banana for dessert.

The more I'm reading on this thread, the more I think she's getting ready for a growth spurt. She is always hungry and hasn't grown much height-wise in the last 6 months or so. Not sure what I'm going to do about the blood tests. I'd like to speak with her ped again first and then maybe wait 6-8 weeks and see if the growth spurt does materialize.

I appreciate the help here...I knew it would help put things in perspective for me.


----------



## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

OP, it sounds like you're handling this all very well and doing what you feel is right. I honestly see no problems at all, but I think talking to your ped about it some more is a really good idea.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Personally, I see the odds of this whole thing triggering issues in the OP's dd as a lot higher than the odds that there's actually a problem. The OP has to make her own decision, obviously. I wouldn't get the blood work or see the nutritionist...and I probably wouldn't go back until the next well child visit (if I did them) unless I noticed her weight going up).


I agree with this. One of my DDs has some special needs and is a little overweight. The two are related. She has low muscle tone, sensory issues that relate to food, anxiety issues that effect her eating patterns, etc.

Because we have moved several times for my DH's job, it is something I discuss with a new doctor's office before taking her in because I believe giving her messages over and over that her body is wrong is only going to make things worse. We focus on healthy eating and being active in ways that feel good. My chubby DD does not need a doctor who cannot understand and appreciate that. It seems pretty basic to me.

Every single girl growing up in American right now, regardless of her body build, will get messages over and over and over again that she is fat and that her body is wrong. Her mom and her doctor should be the voices of sanity.


----------



## wishin'&hopin' (Jun 2, 2008)

Hey, OP, can I come live at your house? The food sounds awesome and you guys clearly have fun!


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Given what you had previously written and -

Quote:


> A few people have asked about us, as a family. DH and I are *both very average*. I'm 5'5'' and weight about 150. DH is 6'1'' and weighs about 185. *Our oldest DD is 7yo and she is tall and skinny. She has a totally different body type than DD though...long legs and built like a stick.* It's actually how I looked as a child, until I hit about 25yo. We have no history of thyroid issues, diabetes, metabolic disorders, etc.


and assuming she was the ped for your other child, I think the dr just may be seeing a jump and wants an understanding as to why

and if you have not mentioned I certainly would -

Quote:


> She is always hungry


if you have trusted her in the past and sounds like you have liked her, I'm sure she will have no problem addressing your concerns and erring on the side of caution may be how she is as a dr

best of luck!


----------



## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

FWIW, my kids always get like vacuum cleaners in the weeks before a growth spurt. They are always very hungry for a few weeks then it goes back to normal.


----------



## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *mamatoablessing*
> 
> The more I'm reading on this thread, the more I think she's getting ready for a growth spurt. She is always hungry and hasn't grown much height-wise in the last 6 months or so. Not sure what I'm going to do about the blood tests. I'd like to speak with her ped again first and then maybe wait 6-8 weeks and see if the growth spurt does materialize.
> I appreciate the help here...I knew it would help put things in perspective for me.


I think following up with the ped is a great idea. I would measure her height today, and then check it in 2-3 months. If she hasn't grown, then maybe a blood draw would be a good idea. But if it's really been a year since the ped has seen her (my kids get weighed when they go in when they're sick so they know how much medicine to prescribe if it's needed. Some years they see the doctor 2-3 times, once we went 2 years!) I wouldn't rush into bloodwork without waiting for a growth spurt for a bit, and I'd tell that to the doctor.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *jenrose*
> 
> My younger daughter won't grow at all if she doesn't have a little fat pad on her, it's a metabolic thing, I think, part of her chromosome disorder. Also, both kids have long torsos, and thus tend to run heavier for their height than kids with long legs.


Wow, thanks for posting that my dd has an incredibly long torso (as does dh and ds). She always outgrows shirts long before pants. Right now she's a size 7/8 in pants and the size 8 shirts are starting to get too small for her. The fact that she's in a heavier percentile for her height now makes more sense. (OK, and it worries me a bit about ds -- he probably IS underweight a bit with his short legs and long torso.)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> Every single girl growing up in American right now, regardless of her body build, will get messages over and over and over again that she is fat and that her body is wrong. Her mom and her doctor should be the voices of sanity.


Yep, our 7 year old dd announced just the other day that she thought she should lose some weight. Dh and I had a serious chat with her about the fact that she is NOT fat, that it is unhealthy for children to lose weight, and that the best thing to do was to eat healthy foods and be more active. Secretly, however, my heart broke. Somewhere, she's heard that her little peasant German farmer body is 'fat'.







We don't talk about dieting. When I'm doing weight watchers (which I've fallen back on), I talk about eating more healthily so I feel better. I do not talk about losing weight.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> Yep, our 7 year old dd announced just the other day that she thought she should lose some weight. Dh and I had a serious chat with her about the fact that she is NOT fat, that it is unhealthy for children to lose weight, and that the best thing to do was to eat healthy foods and be more active. Secretly, however, my heart broke. Somewhere, she's heard that her little peasant German farmer body is 'fat'.
> 
> ...


DD1 announced the same to me several months ago, just before ballet class. DD1 is very slim, with a small tummy. I mentioned it to another mom at ballet (her child and dd1 have become fast friends - her dd is about 9 months older than mine, and is somewhat taller and very slim, even more than dd1...I'm tempted to call her skinny, but that sounds as though I'm being insulting, somehow). The other mom told me that her dd had said the same thing just a few weeks before my dd. These are two very active, healthy little girls, full of energy (the other girls dances at home, just for fun, for at least two hours a day, as well as other activities - dd1 regularly dances, rides her bike, walks, and is currently taking a circus class), with great skin tone, mental clarity, etc. They're both slim (even after her last growth spurt, dd1 can still wear a lot of size 5-6 shirts and dresses, at 8 - they're just way too short). They both eat mostly healthy diets (I'm not where I feel I should be, but we eat a lot of veggies, a fair bit of fruit, especially berries at this time of year!, and not a lot of junk). Yet, both of them think they're fat. It breaks my heart.


----------



## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

OP, those foods sound delicious and healthy. And your 5 y.o. went on a three-mile scooter ride? That's awesome, and is probably more physical activity than a lot of kids get.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Every single girl growing up in American right now, regardless of her body build, will get messages over and over and over again that she is fat and that her body is wrong. Her mom and her doctor should be the voices of sanity.


Amen to that.


----------



## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Every single girl growing up in American right now, regardless of her body build, will get messages over and over and over again that she is fat and that her body is wrong. Her mom and her doctor should be the voices of sanity.


Absolutely. I hear from my middle school aged dd about a few girls she knows who don't eat at snack time because they want to be skinny. My dd wants to bring them in some apples to eat







.


----------



## jenrose (Apr 25, 2004)

With that amazing diet and activity level, and the fact that she's strong, active and looks incredibly healthy (that kid GLOWS...) Seriously, I can't imagine why anyone is fretting you. This IS a wait-and-see thing, but even so, it just looks like her healthy, growing build.

If her thyroid was off, she wouldn't be biking that way, or eating that way, or looking that way. Trust me on this one, I know how low thyroid feels, and that level of activity wouldn't be happening, not and still have a happy child with all her hair.


----------



## seafox (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> IMO, a concerned ped would want to see the child again in a few months, and see if a growth spurt or something had brought her back in line with her former growth curve. A paranoid ped would be talking about blood tests. In the absence of any other sign of problems (eg. low energy, low muscle tone, inability to exercise at a normal level for her age, etc.), jumping to blood tests is premature. The last thing a five year old girl needs, especially in this culture, with its wigged out ideas about body shapes, is to get the idea that having a bit of a tummyand being bigger than average automatically means there's a medical problem.


I'd maybe give the ped one more chance, but I agree with this, from my own (biased) experience. I am 'heavy' also, although I am an athlete (I bike, run, play ultimate frisbee, and ice hockey) I look FINE, and as one other poster not so eloquently put it 'I'm not fat, but not lean either' - the thing is, I am even kind of lean, I am just very muscular so I look 'thick' - if lean means lower fat, than I am lean, I am just built very strongly.

for YEARS no one ever told me anything about what I weighed. Then BMI came out, and I started being told I was heavy. Confusing, given that I was so active? I really didn't get it. In college I think is when this started. And, eventually, I did struggle with an eating disorder. Not just because of docs telling me I was overweight, but that certainly didn't help. At the peak of my disorder, so the *lowest* weight I got to, where one could see all the striations of my muscles and my veins stuck out, I was STILL over what most consider normal. I was 140 or so, at 5'6. I was 10% body fat at that weight. I lost my period. Finally I ended up in the ER with intestinal issues as a result, which is what finally got me recovering. It wasn't until a doctor THERE told me 'you are very thin' - I even argued with her, I said 'I'm 140lbs! I'm not thin!' she replied 'I don't care what you weigh, I know from the cat scan, you don't have enough fat on your internal organs. You are very thin' That was only when I finally believed that I'd never be a 'normal' weight.

My 'normal' weight is 165.

your daughter looks absolutely fine. I wouldn't even qualify it at all as being not this or that. She looks normal, and strong. I'd definitely just see if she jumps up in height. My ped has said that when our child (he's too young for BMI, but then track percentiles) jumps around in percentile its because of being post or pre growth spurt.

and I recently had a daughter, and (I know partly because of my experience) I'd have probably freaked out a bit at the ped for not *looking* at her and at least pointing out 'despite X, she LOOKS fine' - use your eyes!!


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

She has a slight belly, but so did my dd until she put it completely into her height. As long as she is eating well and exercising (and getting enough sleep), I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> No - the point is that it doesn't matter what you say to your kid, because that's what's happening. The doctor says her dd is too fat, and she needs to determine if there's a medical reason. There is no way to honestly answer a child's questions about why they're getting blood work that isn't going to come down to "you're so fat that the doctor thinks you're sick" whether you ever actually use those words or not.
> 
> Personally, I see the odds of this whole thing triggering issues in the OP's dd as a lot higher than the odds that there's actually a problem. The OP has to make her own decision, obviously. I wouldn't get the blood work or see the nutritionist...and I probably wouldn't go back until the next well child visit (if I did them) unless I noticed her weight going up).


I'm not going to read past here because I have to leave the computer.

I would run the tests. It's not about "you are too fat" for me it is about "hunh, this is outside your normal growth curve, more data might be helpful". And my three year old can handle a blood draw. Does she cry for a couple of seconds? Yes. But when it's done we hug and she says that it sucks and we go cuddle on the couch for a while. It's not a big drama. More data is always better than less data for me.

I'm not interested in "controlling" my childrens weight. My older daughter has been everywhere from 97% to 24%. It really depends on where you catch her in the growth spurt cycle. For her, I wouldn't run tests because she has bounced up and down every time we have been in to the doctors office all her life from the bottom of the chart to the top of the chart and I can promise you I don't alternate starving her with feeding her like a goose meant for paté.

If my younger daughter, who has sat between 51% and 56% so far suddenly dramatically changed percentages I'd be very open to tests. Not because I care if she's fat. If anything I think she is on the skinny looking side because I got used to having the Michelin baby and I loved it. I like data. Data is awesome.

Medical stuff doesn't have to be scary. I know that is a hard area for some people. I understand that. I have had a lot of medical/dental fears/phobia issues. I have to get over them in order to model for my kids how to receive adequate care. My three year old tends to be more calm than I feel. It is very hard. But I do it.


----------



## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

A jump in weight/height ratio (which is kind of what bmi is) often happens with kids before a rapid increase in height. First they gain weight, then they grow taller. I have watched my kids do this for their whole lives.

I would just keep feeding her good foods, though I would watch carbolicious snacky stuff that is grain based (like goldfish, that kind of stuff), even if it is organic. But I would say that about everyone in general.

She looks so beautiful and happy -- I'm glad you shared her with us


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rightkindofme*
> 
> I'm not going to read past here because I have to leave the computer.
> 
> ...


My issue is that I don't see this BMI as "data" in any real sense. A BMI (fairly useless, imo, anyway) being taken at long intervals (I'm assuming these are annual checkups) on a growing child is completely useless. If the BMI were still in the 97% percentile (assuming it even was, which it doesn't seem to have been) in a few months, then I could see your point. But, this number isn't data, in any meaningful sense. I'd actually be willing to put down money to say that, if we checked BMI on growing children every couple of weeks, we'd see large fluctuations over time in a huge number of those kids. I've met a handful of children in my life who seem to grow fairly evenly, but the vast majority of them do the "get thicker, sprout up, get thicker, sprout up, get thicker, sprout up" cycle over and over again....and those cycles don't always come at nice, even intervals.

re: medical stuff being scary. I have medical fears, yes. I'm not going to model how to receive adquate care for my kids, in the sense you mean. I overcame those fears several times in my life, and every one of them has ended really, really badly for me. IMO, teaching my children to totally trust doctors would be insanely irresponsbible. I'll teach them that doctors are a tool and resource, to use if and when they choose to do so. I'll be calling my GP tomorrow, to get a referral to a dermatologist for dd1, because I'm not comfortable with the recommendation he already gave me for dealing with the issue at hand (dd1 has a wart growing straight down from the top of one of her nostrils, and the location makes treating it unusually complicated).

However, my concerns here aren't really about whether medical issues are scary. (Personally, I'm not bothered by needles, except for spinal anesthesia - getting a needle in my spine wigs me out, as does the anesthesia itself - and never have been, as far as I can recall...vaccines, blood tests, blood donation, IVs...they don't bother me. DS1 has always coped with them okay. DD1 gets kind of hysterical at the thought, which is in keeping with her personality. DS2 is in line for blood work right now, and he's not thrilled about it, but will probably bounce back pretty quickly afterwards.) It's about treating a child's weight and growth as a medical issue, on such a flimsy basis. There are more than enough messed up, unhealthy ideas about weight and physiques, especially for girls, in this culture, without pushing the freaking "OMG - you're obese - something's wrong with you", button over a child having a bit of a tummy. I've seen too many girls who weren't fat become convinced that they were, because they didn't have a naturally small build (large frames, unusually bulky musculature, etc.).


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## babygirlie (Jun 4, 2009)

I thought bmi was completely defunct as being a gimic and inadaquate way of telling jack. The only way you can tell bmi is from a special full body contraption such as water or a body containment unit.. weight ratio doesn't measure bmi at all.

The daughter looks fit and beautiful. This pediatrician is a hater or being paid by the nutritionist to get referals. he's out of his mind.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Honestly, with the beautiful pictures you posted, the menus she eats, all her exercise ... that child looks super freakin' healthy! Way to go!

I would probably check in at your next doctor's visit and ask for a fuller explanation from the doctor. I wouldn't do the testing because there are no signs of distress. Your daughter's weight clearly fits her body. There are no signs of fatigue or illness. It goes beyond will she be traumatized by the blood draw for me. How about just a waste of time, insurance money and overuse of medical resources ... in the face of zero sign of illness.

My five year old is a little more slender than yours overall, forget the numbers ... but she has the same tummy. Love it.

My seven year old has always been very thin, even as a baby. Her percentages were off the bell curve at one point. But she was healthy and eating. The only corrective offered by the ped (now former ped) was to give her formula. He** yah.

I know how upsetting it can be for a doctor to suddenly flag a child for something so fundamental as their weight -- in my case, some small part of me had a new fear that my child was somehow underweight and would starve. I have let that go. I hope you don't get set with the same fear -- that your beautiful child is somehow overweight.

Absent very obvious problem, for myself, I oppose dieting. I eat when hungry and eat in the middle of the spectrum in terms of healthy. Where I will put effort and discipline is exercise.

I guess, short of true, obvious obesity, I can't imagine, therefore, ever restricting my kids' food. I do restrict junk food and balance carbs with protein. But ... healthy stuff ... only their bodies know how much to eat.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

BMI should be thrown out. The only people with a perfect BMI are either genetically blessed or scrawny and lazy... sorry to those offended. After years of being a trainer... I shake my head at those who are consumed with a BMI just as much as those who are concerned with the numbers on the scale. She is little and not fat at all. Kids eat quite a bit before a growth spurt, they put on a little weight then they sprout up. As you'll notice it's beneficial. Think about those who were skinny their whole lives with loads of stretch marks. Their bodies didn't add on the pounds before they grew... they just grew. It's normal it's natural.


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## tincia (Aug 9, 2011)

She is a pretty tall girl so i think that accounts for a lot of it, as well, like u said, muscle weighs more than fat. That said, in total honesty, she does look to have a bit of a belly, but again, that is just the body type of some ppl.
I do know that my daughter is not a super thin body type (has a booty and beginning of hips lol) also is athletic and has a little six pack, but is 71 lbs and 55 inches. I have no idea what her BMI is or her percentile nor do i feel the need to find out. I have no doubts that she is healthy..eats lots of veggies and fruit, is very athletic and has good cardio endurance..thats enough for me! So i would say keep an eye on all of those factors, but otherwise take it as a grain of salt and trust your mommy instincts.
As for the tests, i would probably go along with anything minimally invasive to err on the side of caution


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## Alphaghetti (May 26, 2005)

My seven year old son is 48 inches tall and 58.5 lbs - nearly the same as your daughter. He is lean and fit. I can see his ribs, and he has ABS! hehe. I think your daughter looks perfectly healthy. I do not see an overweight child in the pics, let alone an obese one!


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## cameragirl (Apr 15, 2010)

For what it is worth, my BMI always said I was overweight, even when I'd play sports at least two hours a day. That was on top of P.E. at school. When they used calipers, my estimated body fat was well-within a healthy range. I am definitely overweight now, but I still disregard BMI. I have a condition that causes muscle rigidity and spasms, and I still have a decent amount of muscle weight under the chubs.


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