# I just threatened to cut my parents out of my kids' lives



## BarnMomma (Dec 12, 2008)

I'll do my best to keep this short. My mother is a handful. She has lots of great qualities but way more lousy ones. Growing up was stressful and I have more bad memories than good. From the outside all way fine and dandy. In her mind she spoiled me. In my reality she was controlling, hurtful, manipulative, and mean and emotionless. She guilt trips and dismisses feelings. She yells. She insults. She is very judgementel. For lack of a better phrase, she's always up on the cross. she was a punisher. Toys taken away as a kid, grounding and canceled plans as a teen. All. The. Time..

She's an odd grandma. On one hand she devoted an entire room in her house to the kids but will buy what she wants regardless of any restrictions we have. (no character toys, battery toys etc ). She calls to say come visit then when we get there has a puss on her face and acts like she doesn't have the will to live. things like this.

She also never ever under any circumstances apologizes. It has been a real sore spot with me for my entire life.

My dad is attached to her at the hip and what she says goes. Period.

Today my almost 4yr old son fell asleep on the way there and woke up too early and was crabby. His weapon of choice right now is to refuse to eat. He will yell, run away, tantrum whatever. I have learned to just collect him, dragging if need be to his chair and calmly that it is time to eat. So he's fussing and she's grumbling within earshot what happened to make him think he's the boss, and blah, blah. She goes to give him a napkin and he yells that he doesn't want lunch. She then, to my horror, leans down, gets in his face and hisses at him "then you'll be a weak little boy!!"

I grabbed her and told her not to speak to him like that. Ever. Minutes pass and my sad, confused son asks " why did grandma make a mean face at me?". I say I don't know why but she should apologize. Well that did it. She was snarling and yelling and I yelled right back. Mainly because she made it about her, not my son. That he throws fits because I'm mean to her. Like, really? Was she joking?

I told her again to apologize. She refused. I packed up and left making it very clear that she would not see her grandkids if shevrefused to apologize. I sent an email when I got home saying the same thing. She put me through this stuff and said mean judgementel things to me my entirevlife but she will not do it to my kids.

Guess this is just a vent but I feel sick over it.


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

Just hugs, mama. I hope you have a peaceful night.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I had something very similar happen a few years ago, where my mom said something verbally abusive to my daughter (called her a horrid little girl), and we walked out and I said we wouldn't be back until she was willing to apologize and promise not to talk to her again like that. She did eventually apologize and said she wouldn't do it again, but we still have very limited visits and my kids are never alone with her, and I am always prepared to pack up and go at a moment's notice.

Good luck, and you aren't alone!


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## Mittsy (Dec 29, 2009)

Our mom's sound very similar! I have cut my mother out of our lives completely, for different reasons though, and I can honestly say my life is much more peaceful now!! My mom was a great grandma and had a very good relationship with my kids, so I let them visit her after our fall out, unfortunately she did things that caused some emotional trauma, and something that could have put their lives in danger.... So my kids haven't seen her since, and won't until they can take care of themselves and make their own decisions regarding her.

I'm so sorry!


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## sahli29 (Jan 23, 2004)

Don't just threaten to cut her off-JUST DO IT!

She will not change.She did it to you and is now doing it to the grandkids.If you are OK with what she says and does then just keep taking the child to her.Thing is once she does/says something that is hurtful an apology does not in any way make things better.

My son got bullied in K.Everyday kids hit him,he told the teacher,and the teacher told them to apologise.Do you think those daily apologies made any difference after the daily beat down?Ofcourse not. Same goes for your mom. Sadly she is toxic. You are an adult now and can choose whether or not to have her in your life.It is not the end of the world if she is not a part of it now.


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

Why is it acceptable for HIM to yell and scream and pitcth a fit in HER home?

I would be telling my child to apoligise to his grandmpother for acting that way in her home. Darned if I would be asking my mother to apologie to my kid who was throwing a fit.

He yelled at his Grandmother.

And SHE has to apologise to him?

Heck no. Not here. The second he raised his voice to an adult in that mannar he would be in the car going home.

She made a comment that he was acting like a King? He yelled at her. He threw a fit. He was acting like one and should have been called out on it.

Was it the right thing to say to him...of course not.

But seriously, why shoudl she have to take being yelled at by a 4 year old? And then apologise to him when he was never asked to apologise to her???

I dont get it. Why was that okay for him to do?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

She said he was fussing, not screaming.

I don't expect 4-year-olds to apologize for acting like 4-year-olds, but I do expect adults to apologize for acting in a verbally abusive way.

Or better yet, not be verbally abusive in the first place.


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> Why is it acceptable for HIM to yell and scream and pitcth a fit in HER home?
> 
> ...


I agree with this.

And your response was to GRAB your mother and tell her not to talk to your son that way, in front of your son? How is that teaching him respect? It sounds like you may have just been teaching him that the only people who have consequences are grownups.

"On one hand she devoted an entire room in her house to the kids but will buy what she wants regardless of any restrictions we have. (no character toys, battery toys etc )"

How is this odd? She doesn't share the same values as you, but I'd say it's pretty darn nice that she has done all that for the kids, and not for you. If you're going to dictate how your mother interacts with her grandchildren, including what toys she should and shouldn't buy for them to play with in her OWN house, then I can see why there would be conflict. I know how hard it is to have a parent whose grandparenting isn't exactly how you would want it, but this is one of those pick your battle kinds of things. My kids' grandparents are thousands of miles away, and my father died 3 years ago, so I am just grateful for any relationship and memories my kids have of their grandparents.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

It sounds to me like she was showing her son she'll stand up for him if someone verbally abuses him.

I do agree about the toy room, though. That was a nice gesture and you can't get controlling with grandparents about what toys they buy your kids. That's just not fair.


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

She said this

He will *yel*l, run away, tantrum whateve

and he *yells that he doesn't want lunch.*

She also said that he was throwing tantrums, running off and such.


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *BarnMomma* 

She also never ever under any circumstances apologizes. It has been a real sore spot with me for my entire life.


> ...
> 
> I told her again to apologize. She refused. I packed up and left making it very clear that she would not see her grandkids if shevrefused to apologize. I sent an email when I got home saying the same thing. She put me through this stuff and said mean judgementel things to me my entirevlife but she will not do it to my kids.


Why would you think she would apologize for something she didn't think was wrong, if she never did in the past? If you want to cut her out of your lives, do so, but not because on this one occasion she wouldn't do something you acknowledge is a character flaw? She's not going to change now, no matter how much you think she should.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> She said this
> 
> ...


She said that's how he behaves in general, not all the time. She said when the mom got verbally abusive, he was "fussing". And if he did yell, you don't know whether she said something to him or not. It's very possible that if he yelled, she did or would tell him not to yell at his grandma, and should still expect her grandmother to behave like an adult and not berate a little boy.


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Of course, but we can't control others' actions. Perhaps grandma was annoyed that the boy had no consequences and responded immaturely?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

She got upset that a 4-year-old responded immaturely, but no one should get upset with her for behaving immaturely? She's an adult. And the mom is under no obligation to punish her son to appease her mother. Why would you assume the mother is not working on this issue with her son?


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## intentionalmama (Aug 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BarnMomma*
> 
> I'll do my best to keep this short. My mother is a handful. She has lots of great qualities but way more lousy ones. Growing up was stressful and I have more bad memories than good. From the outside all way fine and dandy. In her mind she spoiled me. In my reality she was controlling, hurtful, manipulative, and *mean and emotionless*. She guilt trips and dismisses feelings. She yells. She insults. She is very judgementel. For lack of a better phrase, she's always up on the cross. she was a punisher. Toys taken away as a kid, grounding and canceled plans as a teen. All. The. Time..
> 
> ...


I find the bolded last sentence disturbing. It actually creeps me out. It is so hard to say; but I would be very reluctant to have my child around someone who seems to still act the way she did when you were growing up. It doesn't feel healthy. I don't know if you have done any counselling around your relationship with her; but this may be a good time. I do think she needs firm boundaries in knowing how to treat other human beings. Children can be difficult at times; but as adults and caregivers I think it is our responsibility to be able to try and be understanding to these huge feelings that can be so overwhelming to these little ones. I guess what freaks me out about her response is not so much that she was annoyed or angry (thought it still does bother me as you seem to know what you need to do). But it is how she hissed at him and what she said. To me, it feels mean and kind of frightening.


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

She said right before the grandmother said that that as she leaned down he YELLS that he doesnt want lunch.

She goes to give him a napkin and he yells that he doesn't want lunch. She then, to my horror, leans down, gets in his face and hisses at him "then you'll be a weak little boy!!"

I'm not making this up. I took it directly from her post. And yes if my kid yelled at my mother he would be finding himself going home to bed.

She is all upset at her mothers action (which was inappropriate but seriously not life threatening) was abusive to her child. But her child yelled and she grabbed her mother and tried to force an apology.

They all acted badly. They ALL should apologise.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> Why is it acceptable for HIM to yell and scream and pitcth a fit in HER home?
> 
> ...


Key point: He is a child. She is an *adult*. Sorry, but this whole post misses the mark entirely. A four year old acting like a four year old doesn't give granny the right to do what she did. Did you not read through granny's toxic history?

OP-- I am really sorry you're in this situation. I have a similarly toxic mother, though so far, she hasn't done anything like this to my son--just me. Even so, I have cut her off for months at a time, and she knows that certain behaviors are unacceptable, and if I see them, I will have to cut her off permanently. It isn't about me (or you) being punative with our mothers. It is about doing what is right for our kids. Your son doesn't deserve to be treated that way, and you don't either. You need some firm boundaries. I don't know if you will be better off cutting her off entirely or just significantly limiting time with her, but it sounds like one of the two needs to happen. Ironically, my mom had cut off my grandparents, for good reason, as well. I never ever once missed the relationship with them. Ever. I have talked with others in the same situation and it has seemed that they have also not missed the relationship. Your mom is going to become more and more toxic as your son gets older. You have every right to do what you think is best for your family, and even more importantly, it is our job to protect our kids from toxic people including family members. Wishing you strength and peace...


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> She is all upset at her mothers action (which was inappropriate but seriously not life threatening) was abusive to her child. But her child yelled and she grabbed her mother and tried to force an apology.
> 
> They all acted badly. They ALL should apologise.


You know beenmum, when you spend a lifetime with a mother who is manipulative, controlling, plays victim, is mean, etc, sometimes you fly off the handle a little faster than you would in a typical situation. If someone walks their dog past your house each day at 3pm and lets him take a poop on your lawn without cleaning it up, at some point, you are going to be out there at 2:59 yelling down the street that you're going to kick his butt if his dog poops on your lawn today. And you'd look like a real lunatic to everyone who didn't see him come by for the past 10 days and let his dog poop on your lawn. But to those who understand, it makes perfect sense. OP might seem to you like she jumped the gun and overreacted, but as someone who has been in a similar situation, I completely totally understand. On top of that, I could never fault a mother for protecting her own child. OP has *seen* first hand what her mother is capable of. Part of the reaction was probably also to knowing what her mother was capable of and how far she could have taken it.


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

AP, my mother is severely mentally ill. I spent most of my life being abused, beaten, homeless and faced things most never have. I never had hot water, let alone heat in my house. I moved from motel to hotel into places that should have been condemed. As we speak my mother is Homeless. I KNOW.

You didnt have enough infomration to make that call about my past.

However, escalating things with an emotional mother by grabbing her infront of her child was not the best idea either was it? How quickly could that have escalated?

Regardless, I admitted it wasnt appropriate.

But neither is her 4 year old yelling at an adult in that mannar.

Neither is the mother grabbing the grandmother.

They all had a part in this. I agree the adults are adults and needed to act as such. But yes, the child also needs to understand that yelling at adults or yelling at other people in general is not the proper way to comport themselves.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> AP, my mother is severely mentally ill. I spent most of my life being abused, beaten, homeless and faced things most never have. I never had hot water, let alone heat in my house. I moved from motel to hotel into places that should have been condemed. As we speak my mother is Homeless. I KNOW.
> 
> ...


I made zero assumptions about your past beenmum. Tell me where I made a single comment on your life. Everyone apologizing isn't necessary in this situation. Should she have grabbed her mother? No. I am not even sure what she means by that. Should the four year old have acted like a typical ticked off four year old? No, but they do. It doesn't change that this is a toxic situation. Given your past, I am somewhat surprised you can't understand that.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bokonon*
> 
> I agree with this.
> 
> ...


I agree 100%.


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## elisheva (May 30, 2006)

Can we step back and look at the root of this situation? OP states that her ds' "weapon of choice" lately is to refuse to eat. Um, ok. So why-oh-why would you get into a battle over this with an admittedly grumpy child who just woke from a brief nap? So he doesn't eat. No healthy 4 y.o. child in a first world country has ever voluntarily starved himself.

OP, your mom shouldn't have spoken to your ds in that manner. Trying to force a child to eat is a recipe for disaster, though - especially since this seems already to be a control issue for the both of you.


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## cinderella08 (Feb 27, 2009)




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## Katwoman (Apr 15, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama*
> 
> You know beenmum, when you spend a lifetime with a mother who is manipulative, controlling, plays victim, is mean, etc, sometimes you fly off the handle a little faster than you would in a typical situation. If someone walks their dog past your house each day at 3pm and lets him take a poop on your lawn without cleaning it up, at some point, you are going to be out there at 2:59 yelling down the street that you're going to kick his butt if his dog poops on your lawn today. And you'd look like a real lunatic to everyone who didn't see him come by for the past 10 days and let his dog poop on your lawn. But to those who understand, it makes perfect sense. OP might seem to you like she jumped the gun and overreacted, but as someone who has been in a similar situation, I completely totally understand. On top of that, I could never fault a mother for protecting her own child. OP has *seen* first hand what her mother is capable of. Part of the reaction was probably also to knowing what her mother was capable of and how far she could have taken it.
> 
> If someone walks their dog past your house each day at 3pm and lets him take a poop on your lawn without cleaning it up, at some point, you are going to be out there at 2:59 yelling down the street that you're going to kick his butt if his dog poops on your lawn today. And you'd look like a real lunatic to everyone who didn't see him come by for the past 10 days and let his dog poop on your lawn. But to those who understand, it makes perfect sense. OP might seem to you like she jumped the gun and overreacted, but as someone who has been in a similar situation, I completely totally understand. On top of that, I could never fault a mother for protecting her own child. OP has *seen* first hand what her mother is capable of. Part of the reaction was probably also to knowing what her mother was capable of and how far she could have taken it.


Quote:



> Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama*
> 
> I made zero assumptions about your past beenmum. Tell me where I made a single comment on your life.


While you might not have said "clearly beenmum, you've never had a mother that's done x, y, z. So you know nothing about a toxic parent" You're 1st post clearly points to her and tries to explain a toxic parent background. Which does imply that you believe she's had no experience with the issue. Her response was to say, I've had a toxic background parent and I see things differently.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Seriously? "Poor, poor, adult grandmother being yelled at by a four year old." And _he_ should apologize? No.

He's 4. She was being nasty to a 4 year old for yelling and throwing a tantrum. Thats like being nasty to a dog for barking or an elderly lady for taking too long to cross the street. He is a child, she has no right to treat him that way.

I would tell your parents that if they cant get a handle on themselves in front of your kid, your kid cant come over.


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## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

I think everyone was wrong in this situation. Grandma should not have yelled at the child, Mama should not have grabbed Grandma or forced child to sit down for lunch, and child should not have yelled at Grandma. Sure four year olds act like that, but as the adults it is our responsibility to guide them into more appropriate behavior.

If Grandma's house is so toxic that the OP can't control her actions there, then they should no longer be visiting. I don't think it is fair ( and it is beyond confusing) to model to a child that it's ok to act however you want because Grandma is toxic.


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

This! If the Grandmother is really so bad, then cut her off. But don't do it over this incident alone. Explain whatever background you need to, OP, and move on. From the outside, though, it sounds like you put your DS in a bad situation, your mother exacerbated it, and you all need to chill out and accept the positive in each other and let go of the negative.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agatha_Ann*
> 
> I think everyone was wrong in this situation. Grandma should not have yelled at the child, Mama should not have grabbed Grandma or forced child to sit down for lunch, and child should not have yelled at Grandma. Sure four year olds act like that, but as the adults it is our responsibility to guide them into more appropriate behavior.
> 
> If Grandma's house is so toxic that the OP can't control her actions there, then they should no longer be visiting. I don't think it is fair ( and it is beyond confusing) to model to a child that it's ok to act however you want because Grandma is toxic.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

It seems to me that the real issue stems from the OP's childhood and what she saw with her son triggered an over-reaction. I've seen it with myself and my husband when it comes to our children. You're going along just fine and then your parent treats your child in a way that brings back a flood of issues you never realized you had. My husband freaked out on his mom when she tried to force one of our kids to wear a coat. Later he said it was like remembering her forcing him to do it to him as a child as she was always doing little controlling things like that for things that didn't really matter (like wearing a coat).

OP, your mother never apologized to YOU, so this is the real issue, I think. Maybe she forced you to do things you didn't want or spoke to you in that way and it just got to you. I think maybe you should backstep and see if there's something from your own childhood that you could address because it seems like the real issue wasn't what happened with your son that day.


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## slylives (Mar 4, 2007)

OP said that that her son yelled "I don't want lunch!" at Grandma. And I agree with the PP - the son should have been asked to apologise for speaking that way. Just because a behavior is age-appropriate, doesn't mean that it should go uncorrected (whether by time-out, apology, or whatever.)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> She said he was fussing, not screaming.
> 
> ...


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

We don't know his behavior wasn't corrected. She might very well have told him not to speak to his grandmother like that.


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## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama*
> 
> You know beenmum, when you spend a lifetime with a mother who is manipulative, controlling, plays victim, is mean, etc, sometimes you fly off the handle a little faster than you would in a typical situation. If someone walks their dog past your house each day at 3pm and lets him take a poop on your lawn without cleaning it up, at some point, you are going to be out there at 2:59 yelling down the street that you're going to kick his butt if his dog poops on your lawn today. And you'd look like a real lunatic to everyone who didn't see him come by for the past 10 days and let his dog poop on your lawn. But to those who understand, it makes perfect sense. OP might seem to you like she jumped the gun and overreacted, but as someone who has been in a similar situation, I completely totally understand. On top of that, I could never fault a mother for protecting her own child. OP has *seen* first hand what her mother is capable of. Part of the reaction was probably also to knowing what her mother was capable of and how far she could have taken it.


This post spoke to me in such a way I can't describe. It truly described what my life was like with my mother.

As for the OP, I think that a 4 year old who is having a moment should be left alone, a 4 year old who doesn't want to eat right then should be left alone. I think getting in a kid's face and hissing at him because he doesn't want to eat is off limits. You shouldn't have grabbed your mom, but I understand where it was coming from.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katwoman*
> 
> While you might not have said "clearly beenmum, you've never had a mother that's done x, y, z. So you know nothing about a toxic parent" You're 1st post clearly points to her and tries to explain a toxic parent background. Which does imply that you believe she's had no experience with the issue. Her response was to say, I've had a toxic background parent and I see things differently.


Well, no. That is a real twist on what I said and pretty imaginative. You can read into things as much as you want, as can beenmum, but my point was to explain MY background and how it related to OP's (possibly) and how that can change reactions in certain situations. There has been a real lack of empathy in this thread by a couple posters in regards to what OP has dealt with from her mom, and I was trying to explain why OP's behavior may have seemed irrational and overboard, but wasn't in light of her history with her mother. That has nothing to do with beenmum other than the fact that she was one of the people harping on OP for being "wrong."

The whole idea that everyone has to be wrong, take responsibility, and essentially compromise in this situation with granny is unhealthy. There is all this talk about disciplining a four year old, and that is just great, but OP never had the chance because granny stepped in completely inappropriately before anything could be done. Nobody knows how OP would have handled her child's behavior if she hadn't had the opportunity stolen from her. Not only that, but disciplining this kid at this particular time would have also just reinforced that granny's behavior was appropriate, which it wasn't. If I give someone a mean look and they come up and smack me for it, yeah, I shouldn't have given them a mean look, but now the fact that they smacked me makes the mean look seem unimportant. OP and her son's actions pale in comparison to granny's behavior. If it were me, I wouldn't have been happy I had acted that way, nor would I have been pleased that my son had been rude. I would absolutely seek to work on his manners and my own reactions. But I'd also cut myself an ounce of slack considering the circumstances and realize it was also a sign that the relationship needed to be dialed down or cut off. And I sure wouldn't expect to come on MDC looking for a tiny bit of support and be told I should apologize by people who supposedly understand the nature of toxic family members...


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama*
> 
> But to those who understand, it makes perfect sense.


This is what you said. To those who understand. Imply that I DONT understand what its like to have a toxic parent.

How else did you mean that sentence?

B/c it came off as you saying that I didnt understand.

I do.

I wasnt harping on her. I was pointing out that there were several things that happened that escalated the situation.

I also pointed out that a 4 year old yelling at a grandparent would not be tolerated by many.

I also pointed out that the grandmother was wrong to do what she did. However, so was the OP by grabbing her. So was the 4 year old for yelling at his grandmother. While each was wrong to different degrees, they all contribute to this senario.


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *elisheva*
> 
> Can we step back and look at the root of this situation? OP states that her ds' "weapon of choice" lately is to refuse to eat. Um, ok. So why-oh-why would you get into a battle over this with an admittedly grumpy child who just woke from a brief nap? So he doesn't eat. No healthy 4 y.o. child in a first world country has ever voluntarily starved himself.
> 
> OP, your mom shouldn't have spoken to your ds in that manner. Trying to force a child to eat is a recipe for disaster, though - especially since this seems already to be a control issue for the both of you.


I agree with this completely. My children rarely eat all of their food and it drives both sets of parents bonkers. I don't care. If my kids want to be done eating I let them get up because I don't want to have any sort of battle in front of the grandparents where they will get it in their head that their input is appreciated in any way. And I always tell the grandparents that our rule is you don't have to eat everything if you don't want to. I don't engage in food battles, its not worth it to me.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agatha_Ann*
> 
> I think everyone was wrong in this situation. Grandma should not have yelled at the child, Mama should not have grabbed Grandma or forced child to sit down for lunch, and child should not have yelled at Grandma. Sure four year olds act like that, but as the adults it is our responsibility to guide them into more appropriate behavior.
> 
> If Grandma's house is so toxic that the OP can't control her actions there, then they should no longer be visiting. I don't think it is fair ( and it is beyond confusing) to model to a child that it's ok to act however you want because Grandma is toxic.


I agree.

I wanted to add that it did not sit right with me that the OP was sitting there demanding her mother apologize to her four year old, in front of him. I see nothing good coming from that except for some major entitlement issues for the little boy.

I apologize to my kids when I have wronged them, definitely and I could even say the grandmother owed the little boy an apology but for the mom to stand there and demand her mother apologize to the child as if the grandmother is a child...It just...well, no. IMO it should have been handled between mom and grandma privately.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> This is what you said. To those who understand. Imply that I DONT understand what its like to have a toxic parent.
> 
> How else did you mean that sentence?


This is a waste of my time and I'm done engaging you about this after this post as I can see you just want to fight about it for no apparent reason but... I understand fully you understand what it is like to have a toxic parent. I don't think you understood my point though because if you did understand my point about the over reaction, you'd have to have an astonishing lack of empathy to not understand how a person could overreact in that situation. I didn't say it was right. I said I understood the over reaction. Understanding the reaction and understanding what it is like to have a toxic parent are two totally different things.


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## rubidoux (Aug 22, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lovingmommyhood*
> 
> I wanted to add that it did not sit right with me that the OP was sitting there demanding her mother apologize to her four year old, in front of him. I see nothing good coming from that except for some major entitlement issues for the little boy.


I thought it was great that she did this. Once grandma hisses at him, that cannot be undone. An apology is not going to make him feel like she is a safe, loving person who is going to treat him respectfully. But now he knows his mom does respect him and is willing to stand up for him. I really think that's awesome, OP.

I also agree with the poster that said he was acting like a normal four year old and, no matter what his behavior, her's was completely unacceptable.

The decision to allow grandma to have a relationship with him should not hinge on whether or not she apologizes. You know that she behaves this way. An apology is not going to protect him from future attacks. You may decide that it is a worthwhile thing to continue a relationship, but I don't think the apology should have any bearing.


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

ALL I asked was

WAS there another way for me to have intrepreted "But to those who understand, it makes perfect sense"?

And now I'm arguing with you?????

It was a LEGITIMATE question. You accused me of twisitng your words. I quoted them exactly and showed it to you so you what I was responding to.

I'm the one that should be upset here. You implied that I was incapable of understanding the OP b/c her reactions didnt make sense to me.

And then to add insult You keep leaving the parts where I said the grandmother was wrong. She was. You keep quoting everything I said BUT that part.

The OP for escalating it in front of her son by grabbing her mother. You dont use physical intervention for a non physical threat and expect that it isnt going to escalate.


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## dauphinette (Nov 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> It sounds to me like she was showing her son she'll stand up for him if someone verbally abuses him.
> 
> I do agree about the toy room, though. That was a nice gesture and you can't get controlling with grandparents about what toys they buy your kids. That's just not fair.


I disagree, I don't think there is a rule that because someone is family you just have to 'take whatever you get' so to speak. I think it is an issue of respect. In our family we don't like to live with a bunch of stuff or as I call it 'junk'. My family knows this and so to respect our wishes and our families values they don't send us a bunch a of junk and they ask first before sending something. I would feel disrespected if they thought that just because they think the kids should have something that we will want to live with it. I think likewise if you want to have a respectful loving relationship with your grown children/grandchildren you respect the parents wishes about toys/clothes/gifts etc. There is nothing wrong with wanting less or opting out of marketing exposure and materialism and nothing wrong for this mom to want nothing to do with it for her kids and her mom should respect that.


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dauphinette*
> 
> I disagree, I don't think there is a rule that because someone is family you just have to 'take whatever you get' so to speak. I think it is an issue of respect. In our family we don't like to live with a bunch of stuff or as I call it 'junk'. My family knows this and so to respect our wishes and our families values they don't send us a bunch a of junk and they ask first before sending something. I would feel disrespected if they thought that just because they think the kids should have something that we will want to live with it. I think likewise if you want to have a respectful loving relationship with your grown children/grandchildren you respect the parents wishes about toys/clothes/gifts etc. There is nothing wrong with wanting less or opting out of marketing exposure and materialism and nothing wrong for this mom to want nothing to do with it for her kids and her mom should respect that.


That's an awfully simplistic attitude.

Yes, in the presence of other relationship issues, the toy one may just be icing on the cake, but on its own, it would be foolish IMO to cut a child's grandparents out of their lives just because they don't share the same toy values.

I value my kids' relationships with their grandparents far more than to let things like that interfere. My ILs send the kids stuff that I would never buy for them all the time. They are 70+ years old. I'm not going to belittle them for having a different taste in characters and clothes that I do, or sabotage their relationship with my kids because they did things one way, thought it worked out pretty well, and want to do the same for their grandkids. Heck, I'd even let them feed the kids Twinkies and other junk food during our sporadic visits. They only get 3 remaining grandparents and an unknown amount of time with them. Life is way too short to bicker over things like sometime exposure to batteries and plastic toys when relationships are at stake.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bokonon*
> 
> Yes, in the presence of other relationship issues, the toy one may just be icing on the cake, but on its own, it would be foolish IMO to cut a child's grandparents out of their lives just because they don't share the same toy values.
> 
> I value my kids' relationships with their grandparents far more than to let things like that interfere. My ILs send the kids stuff that I would never buy for them all the time. They are 70+ years old. I'm not going to belittle them for having a different taste in characters and clothes that I do, or sabotage their relationship with my kids because they did things one way, thought it worked out pretty well, and want to do the same for their grandkids. Heck, I'd even let them feed the kids Twinkies and other junk food during our sporadic visits. They only get 3 remaining grandparents and an unknown amount of time with them. Life is way too short to bicker over things like sometime exposure to batteries and plastic toys when relationships are at stake.


I agree that there are a lot of things that I choose to "let go" with the grandparents for the sake of the relationship. Toys would be one of them even though I'd love to throw 90% of the insanely loud toys they buy out the window. BUT, I think the point she was trying to make is about respect. Grandparents do need to understand and should understand that they need to respect the parents' choices. If I felt like that my choices were being consisently undermined, I would definitely take a stand and draw some clear boundaries. If I want my kid to play with only green toys and granny brings over blue toys every week when she comes, I should be able to tell her it isn't acceptable. Granny feeling my choices are outlandish doesn't change that it is my right to make those choices for my child and have the choices be respected. I'm the parent.

Also, I think most of the time when the line gets drawn in the sand over these things, it stems from the relationship with the grandparents being crappy to start with. For instance, my relationship with my MIL includes zero respect from her. So I am more likely to get snippy over "no, you can't feed by 4 month old whipped cream" than I am with my 90 year old grandpa who isn't quite all there, isn't purposely disrespecting me, and generally treats me well.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

To expect the parents to keep a houseful of toys like that at their house would be disrespectful, but IMO the grandparents should be able to keep whatever toys they want at their house for the kids to play with. She set up a play room in her house for her grandkids. That's a nice thing. It seems very disrespectful to me to say, "Yeah but you didn't get the right toys." They're just for when at grandma's house.


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> To expect the parents to keep a houseful of toys like that at their house would be disrespectful, but IMO the grandparents should be able to keep whatever toys they want at their house for the kids to play with. She set up a play room in her house for her grandkids. That's a nice thing. It seems very disrespectful to me to say, "Yeah but you didn't get the right toys." They're just for when at grandma's house.


I agree. This reminds me of my SIL who freaks out and makes a huge stink that my MIL has barbies at her house... her kids see MIL twice a year, are we really going to pick a fight about Barbies? There are a lot of things I don't love my kids to play with but I can talk with them about the hows and whys when we're at home and just let them enjoy their grandparents in the small amount of time they're with them.


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## rubidoux (Aug 22, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> To expect the parents to keep a houseful of toys like that at their house would be disrespectful, but IMO the grandparents should be able to keep whatever toys they want at their house for the kids to play with. She set up a play room in her house for her grandkids. That's a nice thing. It seems very disrespectful to me to say, "Yeah but you didn't get the right toys." They're just for when at grandma's house.


What if g'ma knows that parents do not want their children playing with toy guns. Do the parents just have to roll over in your opinion, allow the children to play w/ them at g'ma's and not feel disrespected because g'ma knew their wishes and thought "eh, I don't give a cr*p what kind of values my child is trying to teach, they're not mine and it's my house so I'll do what I want. What if it was bratz dolls or some toy that you didn't think was safe for your child (my mother insisted a child could never get hurt on a pogo stick, it's still in the box in the closet). What if parents were Jewish and g'ma was buying lots of Christian themed toys? In this case I think OP said it was plastic-y and battery operated toys she wasn't happy about, and that may seem less salient to some of us, but OP is the parent and it's her call.

Not only do I think parents have every right to put limits on what their children are exposed to anywhere, including g'ma's house, but I also think if the g'parents are not respecting those limits, the parent has every reason to be upset and put their foot down.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubidoux*
> 
> What if g'ma knows that parents do not want their children playing with toy guns. Do the parents just have to roll over in your opinion, allow the children to play w/ them at g'ma's and not feel disrespected because g'ma knew their wishes and thought "eh, I don't give a cr*p what kind of values my child is trying to teach, they're not mine and it's my house so I'll do what I want. What if it was bratz dolls or some toy that you didn't think was safe for your child (my mother insisted a child could never get hurt on a pogo stick, it's still in the box in the closet). What if parents were Jewish and g'ma was buying lots of Christian themed toys? In this case I think OP said it was plastic-y and battery operated toys she wasn't happy about, and that may seem less salient to some of us, but OP is the parent and it's her call.
> 
> Not only do I think parents have every right to put limits on what their children are exposed to anywhere, including g'ma's house, but I also think if the g'parents are not respecting those limits, the parent has every reason to be upset and put their foot down.


Well, if grandma gave them arsenic and broken glass to play with, obviously that wouldn't be OK, so yes there is a line somewhere. But I'm not talking about anything that might come up - I'm talking about one grandma who tried to do something nice and created a playroom for her grandkids and bought toys for it made of plastic, some of which use batteries. Yes, I think it's rude in that specific case to say the toys aren't good enough.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


But WHO gets to decide what is an isn't appropriate? The parents or grandparents? I think the parents, regardless of how misguided their choices. I would never pick a fight over plastic and batteries, but I would over toy guys. Maybe another parent feels the opposite. In the end, it should be the parents' right to decide, and the grandparents should respect that.


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## rubidoux (Aug 22, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I guess for me the more profound problem is that grandma knew of her dd's wishes and chose to go against them. That's very disrespectful. I know that for both my husband and myself, it is important and feels good to have our parents respect us as parents. It would be hurtful to have them so blatantly disrespect us that way.


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## matte (Dec 26, 2010)

I haven't read all the responses, but I would like to respond to say that I think removing the grandmother from your child's life is not a good solution to this situation.

When I was growing up there was a very similar dynamic between my mother and her mother, mostly over expectations about my younger brother's behavior (he was high-needs, odd, spectrum-y, etc). My grandparents took a tougher -- though I think reasonable, and well-humored -- approach to my brother's very difficult behavior. This was, apparently, triggering for my mother. My mother decided to stop all interaction with her parents for years, and forbid me to spend time with them as well.

I understand that it was hard for my mother to deal with this situation, but I really think her reaction to it was all about her own feelings and not about what my brother was actually experiencing. However, my mother's solution -- completely splitting for her parents for most of our childhoods -- did not protect my brother and I. Instead it caused us (me more than him, actually, because of my age) to lose out on our relationships with our grandparents.

My mother later came to peace with her parents, thank God. After 10 years of work, they were able to have a loving relationship. Sadly it was too late for me, as I was convinced from a young age that the problem with my grandparents was my fault, and that I was somehow part of the problem (because my mother told them they favored me, etc). My brother was able to rebuild a relationship with our grandparents, as he was about 13 when my mother reconciled with her parents. I, on the other hand, was already away from home and separated from my family for my own reasons.

OP, I know it's hard now, but please, think of the harm that a permanent split from your mother could do to your son, especially if he thinks it's all about him. I agree with previous posters, if you know that the food thing is one of your son's ways of acting out right now, perhaps you could express that to your mother. Say "yes, this is his hill to die on right now. Let's let this blow over for the time being" (or whatever your strategy is for dealing with this). Don't let a little -- and known -- tantrum become the reason to split from your mother. If there are other and larger reasons, that are really between YOU TWO, perhaps those are the things to think about, perhaps those are the things to discuss with your mother. Work through your relationship together (or don't), but don't make it all about your son, please.


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## BarnMomma (Dec 12, 2008)

OP here.

I want to clear a few things up. Of course I was addressing my son's behavior. I was calmly and repeatedly asking him to speak nicely. I wasn't screaming back at him which is the reaction my mother was probably looking for from me. So she felt the need to "handle it."

When I do something wrong, such as yell, I apologize to my son. Even if I have to do it 3 times in a day. Apologies are important. Pride can destroy a person.

As for the toys, it's a control thing with her. When she built the room she asked me what he liked and I told her along with things we are avoiding. She knows we don't like mass marketed character toys and she buys them anyway to simply flex her muscles and control everything.

We are not speaking but will be at the same event tonight. I am dreading it.

I'm just rather depressed about the whole thing.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

OP-- I hope things go okay for you tonight. I understand the whole flexing control thing on the toys because my mom is just like that. Same thing with how I "discipline." I have no other advice...just a hug and to tell you I understand.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

OP -- our moms are not really similar in personality, but I feel that I can identify with your situation because my mom has also completely disregarded me when I have told her that it was not okay for her to say certain things to my children. At more than one point, I have felt that we have reached "the end" and that I could never speak to her or see her again. The disrespect was just too hurtful.

But...my mom is 39 years older than me (she's 86 now), and, after some time would pass I'd start wondering if she was still in good health or even alive. I even subscribed to her church's newsletter so that I could be alerted if she was in the hospital or something (by the way, I'm still glad to be getting this, because one of my old friends from high school suddenly died last September, and my mom never even mentioned it to me -- but I know she knew about it since I saw her at his memorial service, and I was so glad that I saw the notice in the newsletter and got to go because I was able to renew a couple of old friendships, including my friendship with my friend's bereaved wife).

At any rate, what has been working for us for some time now is that we don't allow her *any *unsupervised visits with our girls. We currently visit her, as a family group, for about 1-2 hours every two or three months or so.

I've become so much more at peace now that I've just accepted that she's not going to ever respect me or any boundaries that I've set (even though she'll always feign agreement), or even remember that I'm sick of hearing, over and over again ad nauseum, about stuff like how my unpopularity in school made it really hard for my poor brother, who was two grades behind me, to make any friends because he was stigmatized as the brother of the weirdo...

Since I no longer waste my breath trying to explain, for the gazillionth time, why what she just said to one of my girls or me was *not* okay, I have soooo much more energy for relaxing and enjoying life!

Now, if she starts off on a tangent that I don't find acceptable for the girls or me to hear, I can do one of the following two things:

a) Change the subject. Example: "Hey mom, why don't you tell the girls about the time that you and your brothers walked home from school in that blizzard?"

b) If she's in a tenacious enough frame of mind to not be willing to change the subject, or if I'm so ticked off by what she just said that I just feel like I'm done with her and don't even care to try to change the subject, I say something like, "Oh, gosh, it looks like we need to get going." Since my girls aren't always quick to transition, I'll say something like, "Okay girls, you need to be finishing up (usually, at Mom's, it would be a TV show); we need to leave pretty quickly."

I actually haven't had many problems, of late, getting them to make this transition...and, forgetful as my mom my seem, now that I've formed this habit of not even confronting her about her misdeeds, but just "movin' right along," her inappropriate digressions have gotten less and less frequent.

The thing is, back when I'd get upset with her and explain myself over and over in some fruitless attempt to get her to listen to me and see my point of view, I was actually feeding into her control drama. I was giving her the power to make me angry! Once I realized that she really wasn't ever going to change, this freed me up to decide how, to what extent, and even if, I wanted to deal with her. And my decision to just get up and quicly extricate my family and myself from any negative interactions, has had a whole lot more impact on my Mom's behavior than all my years of attempting to appeal to her as a fellow human being.


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## katslondon (Feb 22, 2012)

You, are making a rod for your own back. Teaching your child that it's OK to be rude to an adult and expect the adult to apologise after the child, was rude to her? Believe me, you will deeply regret this in years to come when your child is grown and treats you with such disrespect, don't complain. You taught him.


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## K1329 (Apr 6, 2009)

My 2 cents is to tread lightly when cutting out family members. I'm surprised so many posters jump straight to that. It can become generational. I know a woman who grew up watching her mom cut out "toxic" family. Now, this woman feels totally okay cutting out her mother over a disagreement. It's what she grew up with & what she knows. Her mother is heartbroken over not seeing her grandchildren, but, really, what did she expect? That's what she modeled & taught her daughter. Of course, abusive situations are a different story, but, I wouldn't cut out a family member over a disagreement of the OP's nature. Maybe set some ground rules & reduce/supervise visits, but, not totally cut out my mom over a heated moment.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I'm so sorry this happened, it sounds hard. And a lifetime of dealing with that behavior - not good.

I will add this though about the cutting off. Think real hard before you do it. My parents cut off a lot of people who were important to me, and as a grown up I have a lot of questions about that. Be sure you are doing it for the right reasons.

Good luck.


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## OkiMom (Nov 21, 2007)

I might not cut her off but I would seriously limit where and how much time I would spend with that family member. Id probably also avoid their house (I find that meeting in a public place puts everyone on their best behavior, at least for adults) and avoid situations that might cause conflict (no lunch dates). I found that my inlaws were best when they were out doing an activity with the kids so we would met someplace where they could play with the kids.

As for the original situation, Id probably not have even tried to get my 4 year old to eat. Mine went through a phase like that and when she refused I just put her food to one side and went on with lunch. She either came to the table and ate with us or went hungry. I know some people probably would call me a bad mom for that BUT I refuse to fight someone to eat and I knew she wouldn't starve herself. 9 times out of 10 she ate with us. The last time she got to wait for snack time (my children have a chance for a snack every 2 hours or so) and then got a chance to eat something. For me, fighting over whether or not she would eat her lunch wasn't something I wanted to do. Shes a healthy kid, missing 1 meal won't kill her.


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