# Raising teens in a digital world



## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

I know this topic comes up on this forum regularly. I got into a huge discussion on Facebook a couple of weeks ago about teens and their mind-numbing obsession with phones and social media, and I was prompted to write a blog post on the topic.

If you want to read the whole thing it's here:

Raising teens in a digital world

But basically the gist is that we shouldn't judge teens' use of technology without doing them the courtesy of understanding and appreciating what they're actually doing, and where they are really going with it. I think we will almost always be pleasantly surprised and impressed when we actually dig in and listen to what teens have to say. The experts on nuanced use of the technology of 2017 aren't panels of researchers or associations of pediatricians: they're the teens themselves.

I wrote the article last week and shared it with my son yesterday. He's the main character in the example I raise in the article, the kid who was getting "way too much screen time" and whose parents were despairing -- and unwittingly making things worse -- until they actually started paying attention to what his experience was. He's now 20 and in his third year at university in a computer-related field. Anyway I figured I should ask him if he was okay with me putting all this stuff about his teen years out there. I wondered if it might be "too soon" and still feel too personal.

His reaction was great! He said he'd never realized how the issue had played out from my perspective, but that in retrospect he could see the positive change it had created in his life. And (haha!) he said he was going to share the article with a few of his friends whose parents had never 'got it' in the hope that it might help.

My 14-year-old read it and told me that anytime an older generation has disagreed with a younger generation, the younger generation has been right. So yeah, having books rather than oral storytelling didn't cause the extinction of memory. Electricity didn't kill work ethic. TV didn't steal our grandparents' imaginations. Giving women and blacks the vote didn't destroy democracy. Letting same-sex couples marry won't destroy families. And mobile technology probably won't turn the human race into zombies. "When in doubt, side with the youth," she said.

Thoughts?

Miranda


----------



## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*are things better, are they worse?*

Hard to say, but it's become the new norm.

When young people work with me they often limit their interactions to stare at cellphones.

It has become OK to Twitter at work but not OK to read a paper.

When people shop for things they often don't use the help of sales staff, they just look it up on their phones.

There are no more public phones or clocks.

People assume they can cancel meetings last minute "because everybody has a cell phone."

It's now OK to eat together and stare at phones instead of talking.

If a baby starts fussing the parent passes them a cell phone.

While at the park, the parents continue to work on the cellphone/talk to other people.

One of my sons teachers apparently spends class time on the cell phone, she has a Twitter account. She cancelled our parent teacher interview and told me to email her.

Kids opt not to go outside to play, they are playing online games with strangers.

Students are bringing phones into class to do classwork.

People are driving through traffic and walking down the street looking DOWN. And bumping into people. And nearly running over people.

So many people, rudely, talk on cellphones during sales transactions, a restaurant here has a no cell phone sign.

Nobody seems to know how to use maps anymore, I've been in cars where people refuse to drive or drive in the wrong direction because the GPS isn't working. EVEN WHEN YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE THE DESTINATION.

People think it's OK to cut you out of social activities or deny you work because you don't use a cell phone.

In some ways it feels like people are drifting farther apart into their own little cells, in other ways they are more connected to information. Digital technology is enabling in the sense that it helps individuals run companies, translates other languages, connects people over vast distances, allows anyone to take photographs in focus and with great ease, provides a vast reservoir of references and precedents. Things like Twitter and Facebook (and digital cameras which can take endless photos) can be insidious however, allowing people to fabricate false versions of themselves or others.


----------



## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

I wasn't asking whether things are better or worse. Maybe I wasn't clear. I was suggesting that we stop using casual observations of young people and their tech-toys as excuses to judge them without first taking the time to really understand the nuances of what they're doing.

Miranda


----------



## hellen19 (Nov 26, 2016)

As a coin has two sides, it depends on how teens uses technology. It's no doubt that there are many disadvantages as you said. But there're still many advantages. The world is flat now. And accessing to ditigal world is necessary.


----------



## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

I found this graphic (advertising a set of online courses ... not plugging the company, just liked the graphic) which encapsulates what I think can happen when parents shift from trying to minimize/redirect kids' use of mobile tech to supporting and feeding their interest. This was what I observed with my son.

Miranda


----------



## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

moominmamma said:


> I wasn't asking whether things are better or worse. Maybe I wasn't clear. I was suggesting that we stop using casual observations of young people and their tech-toys as excuses to judge them without first taking the time to really understand the nuances of what they're doing.
> 
> Miranda


I think this is fine. I think there are people who use technology in very cool and innovative ways.

I also think it is likely that the majority of teens are not using technology in cool and in depth ways - but are rather mindlessly texting friends, scrolling through tumblr/Instagram, etc....just like most adults, lol.

I suppose where it gets tricky is when a child is using technology in a way that appears mindless, but they are really starting to branch out into cool use of technology. Is the teen who is playing hours of WoW just wasting time or might they head into forum modding, coding, etc?

When all is said and done, as long as people meet their own and realistic family expectations, I don't think we should care how they use their free time....and when it looks like more than time wasting, we should be downright supportive (just as we would with art/music/sports).


----------



## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*Depends on the person*

What happens when "stuff you do to kill time" becomes almost all you do and all you are? This is where I have an issue, when identity is a thing or a brand. I have an issue with disconnectedness, when life has less value and interest than virtual activity. When you are so used to text as communication and you have forgotten or never learned how to just talk.

And to say that youth are always on the right side of every argument with their elders is a fallacious statement, that reflects how younger people think. They have got to believe they are right, they are trying to forge confident, individuated persons. Hitler Youth. Mao's Red Guards.

Judgments are based on evaluations of things based on rightness or wrongness.

Is a car better or more right than a horse wagon? Is a CD better or more right than an LP? They are what they are, no more right or wrong than each other. But they do effect how we live life. The people who fight eventual change will lose, of course, the masses make the decisions in so many cases. The holdouts on push button phones were never going to change the tides, and rotary phones were a PIA in some ways, no redial, emergency dialling was hard, no caller display. I still miss the bell sound of rotaries.

Technology is always changing, computer technology is on path of accelerated change. It's almost an artificial rate of change, pushed along by companies to buy more stuff, become redundant faster.


----------



## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

mumto1 said:


> What happens when "stuff you do to kill time" becomes almost all you do and all you are?
> 
> And to say that youth are always on the right side of every argument with their elders is a fallacious statement, that reflects how younger people think. They have got to believe they are right, they are trying to forge confident, individuated persons.
> 
> Technology is always changing, computer technology is on path of accelerated change. It's almost an artificial rate of change, pushed along by companies to buy more stuff, become redundant faster.


I think we spend more time on screens now, but it *isn't* shockingly higher than in my youth. I watched a lot of tv.

My oldest is 21 (OMG). He spent a lot of time playing WoW when he was about 14/15. Honestly, he had little else going on - and that is the reason. When he had more going on, the intense amount of gaming he did lessened. It can be a phase (although one people do revisit). He is still a gamer, btw, and also a university student. He is doing just fine. Some of my best memories with him are of us playing Super Mario Bros and Donkey Kong on the Wii.

I do know all about the danger of social media and heavy cel phone use (the first is very drama prone and the latter makes people feel like they are constantly "on") and I do think we need to role model correct usage of such things. Adults can certainly be quite horrible in this regard.

I agree with you that kids are not always right. Kids are individuals - and like all individuals, they are sometimes wrong and sometimes right. While they might be more progressive than adults, they often lack the life experience to sort out the ramifications of their choices. I often find my children smart, but not necessarily wise.

Yes, there is a large consumerism aspect to our techie lives. Teaching kids when to opt in versus opt out of that is one of our goals as parents (as is letting them make their own choices if it is their money).


----------



## Deborah (Dec 6, 2002)

I had a childhood with almost no TV. We didn't have one in the house, so I only saw TV at other kid's houses. 

I brought my daughter up mostly without TV and she has brought her children up mostly without TV.

I'll admit that it was difficult for me, as a kid, being different. But not have a TV was just one small piece of being different. We ate a healthy diet, drank raw milk, weren't vaccinated, read a lot of books AND moved pretty frequently because my father worked for a corporation that slid their employees around the country like golf balls. That was in the 1950s and 1960s. 

It is hard for a child to be different, but it does make a great foundation for becoming your own person as an adult. 

I've got a smart phone and it definitely can be a distraction if not managed carefully. And I'm a mature adult. 

Children do need guidance and support. Even if it is tricky sometimes working out what constitutes the right guidance and the right support. 

I think that for some kids, unlimited access to devices and screens is going to be a disaster. For other kids it will be a creative opportunity. You have to observe your own and figure out whether they have a problem or a potential success and you may get it wrong. Parenting is the worst job...


----------



## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

I guess my childhood was somewhere in the middle, with some TV. There just wasn't a lot of TV to watch back then. I never liked Atari, it seemed so pointless and I wasn't into computer coding or building. Computer games and computer stuff was way way less compelling and comprehensive. I grew up in the burbs, I grew my own veg in middle school to get better produce. That's how it was back then. Even in art school, digital art programs were in black and white. Computer stuff is a thousand times more useful now, but way way more attractive to addictive personalities.


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

We recently found old Atari promotional magazines. In them were short features on early "gamers" and what they like about Atari. Their ages were from about 13-17, all boys. It gave their home towns listed too. We did some googleing! WOW many of those "kid" were able to be found.......many kept with computers and most we were able to find are making quite a good living at their teenage past time!! One never knows.

OP- like your story. 

We are middle of the road and it simply is my kids have so many various interests no one thing dominates and if one did that would be fine.

I have had one teenage and one going to be.


----------



## mumlewis87 (Feb 2, 2017)

moominmamma said:


> I know this topic comes up on this forum regularly. I got into a huge discussion on Facebook a couple of weeks ago about teens and their mind-numbing obsession with phones and social media, and I was prompted to write a blog post on the topic.
> 
> If you want to read the whole thing it's here:
> 
> ...


I think, having a deep conversation with someone whom you think is using "too much technology" is worth it. Sometimes, they don't realize how distant they are when they're with family and friends if they keep using the gadgets...but elders shouldn't jump to cutting off these devices because sometimes, they are really doing something they want. I once asked my nephew why he keeps spending too much time on his laptop...he didn't tell me exactly but one time, I caught him doing some 3d models of a robot using some software online. It's quite a sight.


----------



## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

kathymuggle said:


> I think this is fine. I think there are people who use technology in very cool and innovative ways.
> 
> I also think it is likely that the majority of teens are not using technology in cool and in depth ways - but are rather mindlessly texting friends, scrolling through tumblr/Instagram, etc....just like most adults, lol.


Okay, but don't you think that it is far more likely that young people who are using technology mindlessly will be turned on to the more mindful and creative ways of using it if the adults in their lives encourage those things? My daughter's AP Physics teacher suggested to her class that they use FB Messenger to create study groups to help each other with the challenging problem sets... and it took off like wildfire! These kids are now doing the same with their preCalc homework and are spreading the idea to other students and other teachers. Sure, they share geek-memes a lot too, and stupid banter. But they're getting a lot of work done, supporting each other, deepening their friendships and doing so in the context of academic challenge.



mumto1 said:


> Hitler Youth. Mao's Red Guards.


My daughter's point was the when there is widespread grassroots adoption of some new norm _led largely by young people_ (which was absolutely not the case with the examples you gave: they were led by adults exerting unflinching power and control over young people... the blame in those cases rests squarely on the shoulders of the adults!) that norm becomes accepted is ultimately viewed as progress. I'm not sure whether I agree that this is always the case, but historically I think it is very common.



mumlewis87 said:


> I think, having a deep conversation with someone whom you think is using "too much technology" is worth it.


Absolutely! And in my world a deep conversation makes use primarily of "I-statements" rather than "you-statements," avoids judgement, and most importantly involves a lot of listening.

miranda


----------



## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

moominmamma said:


> Okay, but don't you think that it is far more likely that young people who are using technology mindlessly will be turned on to the more mindful and creative ways of using it if the adults in their lives encourage those things? My daughter's AP Physics teacher suggested to her class that they use FB Messenger to create study groups to help each other with the challenging problem sets... and it took off like wildfire! These kids are now doing the same with their preCalc homework and are spreading the idea to other students and other teachers. Sure, they share geek-memes a lot too, and stupid banter. But they're getting a lot of work done, supporting each other, deepening their friendships and doing so in the context of academic challenge.
> 
> miranda


Sort of.

I think the majority of people spend the majority of their free time mindlessly using technology. Examples of exceptions do not change that. I do not make judgements on how people spend their free time, unless it impacts their quality of life.

Clearly, some people do use technology in creative and inspiring ways...but those are exceptions, not rule.

If you have a child who is doing that, then yes, support that - as you would support art, sports, academics, etc.

I know it can be tricky to "read" a child in front of you - is this just excessive usage or is this a budding a interest? In many ways the question might be moot, though...you have to deal with the child in front of you. The child should not let technology interfere with their goals or quality of life...and sometimes they may need parents to help them see if there are issues. This runs true for things such as sports, arts and academia. You should not let those pursuits "run" your life, nor should you allow technology to "run" your life.


----------



## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

kathymuggle said:


> Clearly, some people do use technology in creative and inspiring ways...but those are exceptions, not rule.


I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but I think there's a shift in mindset that is worth considering.

I think that young people are more likely to move towards using technology in creative and inspiring ways if the respected adults in their lives encourage them to do so.

In other words if parents and teachers rather than implicitly devaluing the inevitable hours of tech-use young people engage in, instead choose to engage and inspire them to leverage that technology for more challenging and creative use, that's when we see more and more exceptions to the rule.

Miranda


----------



## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

moominmamma said:


> I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but I think there's a shift in mindset that is worth considering.
> 
> I think that young people are more likely to move towards using technology in creative and inspiring ways if the respected adults in their lives encourage them to do so.
> 
> ...


You are correct.

I still feel there is an issue, however.

Let's say you have a 14 yr old who is having issues with technology: they lack interpersonal skills, they lack real life friends, and their sleep schedule is way off because they spend half the night playing their game of choice. Their grades are kind of meh (sleep deprivation will do that to you). _What do you do?
_

I think as a parent you should do something - even if that something is only many conversations.

Some may try and set some boundaries and I think that is legitimate.

Some may try and engage their kids in other ways, if they feel they are gaming a lot because they do not have much else going on.

Some may accept this is their child's interest and try and encourage them to use it in more meaningful ways.

I hear you (at least I think I do ) that you would try and help them morph into more creative usage. I think this is fine as one tactic. I will always tell a tech loving child that there is a coding workshop taking place at xyz, or buying them very cool (preferably creative or collaborative items) for xmas and birthdays. However, I see encouraging creative tech expression as one part of parenting tech obsessed kids. If the child in front of you is not thriving due to excessive tech use, then the excessive tech use needs to change. This does not preclude encouraging creative tech use, but it does mean addressing the excessive tech usage you are currently seeing.

There are almost two issues in this:

-how they are using technology and if it is creative/meaningful

and

- the amount of time they spend on technology, and if it interferes in everyday life.


----------



## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

kathymuggle said:


> There are almost two issues in this:
> 
> -how they are using technology and if it is creative/meaningful
> 
> ...


I completely agree.

Still, the two issues affect each other. For instance, my ds's self-esteem was suffering because we viewed the (mostly non-creative at the time) hours and hours he spent on the computer as wasted and meaningless. Once he began moving towards more creative, challenging and meaningful use of the computer, and felt valued and supported for what he was doing, he became happier, more optimistic and energetic and much more willing to get involved with other people. The result was that his everyday life became more balanced and he spent less time sitting alone staring at a screen.

You're definitely speaking my language with the focus on whether screen time is interfering with socializing, sleep, exercise, learning and so on. Achieving balance has been the primary thing I've focused on when helping my kids understand their choices and how they affect themselves and those around them.

I just feel like sometimes the answer isn't simply to keep saying "It looks like you're doing too much of this screen-time thing and not enough of these other things." Especially if you've been saying that for years and seem to be fighting a losing battle. Sometimes the answer is to put a less negative lens to it and say "This screen-time stuff really grabs you. There must be something about it that really works for you, your personality and how you learn. Why don't we see what else it could lead to?!"

Miranda


----------



## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

moominmamma said:


> I just feel like sometimes the answer isn't simply to keep saying "It looks like you're doing too much of this screen-time thing and not enough of these other things." Especially if you've been saying that for years and seem to be fighting a losing battle. Sometimes the answer is to put a less negative lens to it and say "This screen-time stuff really grabs you. There must be something about it that really works for you, your personality and how you learn. Why don't we see what else it could lead to?!"
> 
> Miranda


I think the approach you are describing is positive and definitely worth a shot.

I don't think it will work on all kids, but it is positive, so no harm no foul.

Whether or not it will work might depend on why they are using tech excessively or allowing it so much power in their life in the first place. With my son, I really think he simply did not have enough going on, and while it took me years to learn, he does better with external activities and even external obligations. It isn't that he especially loved tech (although he is still a light gamer for fun - but it has been mostly in balance for years), but it was an available item that gave him something to do, and he was/is fairly good at gaming. With your son, it seems like it really was a gateway for more creative/mindful use of technology....whereas with mine it was (and still is) a form of escapism. It can be hard to figure out the kid in front of you, and I do think there are a lot of negative messages about teens and tech use (as well as counter-negative messages, by people who are tired by the negativity!) that it can be hard to figure out what is what.


----------



## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

Thank you for sharing, Miranda. Good food for thought. I'm in the middle of this kind of issues with my twelve year old.
Yes, technology is here to stay and the way of the future. My work depends on it (I currently work as a teacher in adult education and I teach students across the country using a software). I can see what the benefits of technology are for my ds - from using on-line dictionaries, reading e-books, sharing music with his music teacher for home practice, learning a bit of coding, communicating with relatives across the ocean - technology is amazing.
But I see my job as a parent as teaching him to find balance. I can't allow screen time to affect his sleep, his eating, his time outside or spent with family. 
It comes with age and maturity, I think. I trust ds to find a balance but right now he needs a bit of support as he's only 12. He still needs someone to remind him that screen time is over for the day and he should practice his guitar or go outside.


----------



## Good Natured Gamer (Jul 1, 2017)

There are definitely pros and cons to technology. But I personally think that moderation is the key. In addition parental interaction can be very strong e.g. playing games as a family, uploading art on to Facebook etc.


----------



## aparent (May 9, 2006)

I understand the monks raising the Dalai Lama 
were raising the spiritual leader of his people. I 
would guess he was taught about the digital world the 
way a child would be taught how to use a pair of 
pliers; something to be picked and used as necessary 
before quickly returning to the world of living things. 
Perhaps his path is not to conform to whatever is being 
marketed for profit but to ponder on what will elevate 
his people as humans beings and how to bring it to them 
as directly as powerfully as viscerally as he can. I
wish every child was raised to believe they could do
anything they wished... including rising above silicon
fads to envision new worlds designed by human beings
for the children of the future.


----------



## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

The dalai lama was already in his 50s when when personal computers began coming generally available. He was 60 before the internet began to take hold. So I don't think he was trained or raised by monks to utilize the digital world at all. Like most parents of teens he has had to figure out how to cope with tools and norms he wasn't raised with.

One thing that jumped out to me in your post was the implication that digital technology should be used as little as possible because it removes us from the living world. I think the dichotomy of digital vs. living is simplistic. Today my 14yo daughter came home from work and FaceTimed with her 18yo sister who lives 8 hours away, talking about mutual friends, travel, school, adventures, work, plans for the future and frustrations and stresses. They laughed themselves silly for some time, confided in and supported each other, and it seemed to me like such a very healthy thing to do. Yesterday she used the _A Capella_ app to video-record herself on viola as part of a virtual Schubert quintet rehearsal with four other teens who are currently hundreds of miles apart. They are good friends but can only be together for a week during music camp in August. They're trying to get a jump start on their in-person rehearsals and are having a great time doing so, very much excited to surprise their coaches with the work they have already done through virtual means.

These digital tools seem to enhance my daughter's involvement with the living world, rather than removing her from it. I like to see her doing things like this and not simply spending every evening alone noodling on the piano or in her bedroom reading books. She does some of that, for sure, but living as we do in the middle of nowhere, internet-enhanced relationships have been a godsend for her.

I definitely share your hope for the empowerment of our children. However I don't think it's inconceivable that digital tools could be among those they use to create those better worlds you speak of.

Miranda


----------



## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

So... we're trying something new this week. Ds (12) will be home alone and in charge of his screen time. 
Planning to give him some chores every day, and I know he wants to meet with his friends at the park. He will also have to practice his instrument daily. This should keep him busy and less likely to be on electronics for the whole time while I'm at work.
We discussed that if he can show responsibility with managing his screen time he will be in charge of it from now on.


----------



## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

transylvania_mom said:


> So... we're trying something new this week. Ds (12) will be home alone and in charge of his screen time.
> Planning to give him some chores every day, and I know he wants to meet with his friends at the park. He will also have to practice his instrument daily. This should keep him busy and less likely to be on electronics for the whole time while I'm at work.
> We discussed that if he can show responsibility with managing his screen time he will be in charge of it from now on.


I'm always a fan of giving kids responsibility early so they can learn from it. I'm curious how things have been going so far.

I think parents need to wrap their heads around the likelihood that kids in this situation will probably 'fail' for three completely understandable reasons. First, giving a kid control over his use of electronics while he's on summer break and newly home alone means he won't have the scaffolding of a daily rhythm that is kept in place by others around him or scheduled responsibilities. If he happens to get locked into a video game or Netflix binge, there will be nothing around to cue him into something else: no set mealtimes, no conversation, no need to be anywhere at a certain time. Secondly, he will likely need to know whether the new responsibility he has been given is legitimately his or just a sham. If you say he can choose, but plan to remove that freedom if he chooses differently than you wish, then he doesn't really have the freedom and responsibility are telling him he has. He will probably want to test out this boundary to make sure he can actually make _his own[i/] choices, not just make your preferred choices. Thirdly, he will probably just make some straight-up bad decisions. Maybe he'll skimp on his practicing, he'll spend four hours striving to level up in a game, he'll skip his chores. The thing is, kids learn to make good choices through sometimes making not-so-good choices and simply owning them and learning from them. (And they learn better if they're not triggered into defending poor choices by being shamed by their parents!)

All of which is to say that accepting a certain amount of initial 'failure' is a necessary to ensure long-term success in learning responsibility.

Miranda_


----------



## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

I'll update on my son's "home alone" week...
I'd like to mention first that this wasn't his first time home alone, just the first time he was a whole week. We had started gradually for an hour at a time many years ago, then a day (while I was at work). Also chores and alone practice time weren't new, he's been doing them for years. The only new thing was managing his screen time.
Secondly, you were right Miranda, I was expecting a certain degree of failure, but he did amazingly well. Yes, he cleaned the toy room by shovelling all toys in a corner one day, did only 15 min of practice another day and forgot to meet his friend at the park on the last day, but overall he tried really hard to prove himself. We kind of threw in a wrench by taking him to buy a video game he was saving for the whole summer. I was very impressed that he stopped by himself whenever he considered it was time to do something else. Personally, i would have spread screen time differently throughout the day - and told him so one day - but he replied he had his own plans, so I had to keep my word and give him complete control on his screen time.
So the agreement is now that he's in charge of his screen time from now on, but we'll still keep an eye on it for a while. I just want to make sure his friendships and outdoor time don't suffer, and if everything goes well, I'm so ready to have one less thing to worry about.
This is my brag for the day ?? I'm really proud of ds.


----------

