# Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) "slow and steady" support thread



## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

I'd like to start a thread to provide support and encouragement for those of us who are following the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (for healing the gut and rebalancing the intestinal flora), and who are going slowly and carefully, following the recommendations in Breaking the Vicious Cycle and on the BTVC web site. The SCD can be difficult to follow in the beginning, and many people end up abandoning the gradual introduction of new foods and just skipping straight to the full "legal list." Sometimes they'll go even further, and use packaged foods or supplements that aren't permitted on the diet, because they question the rationale for excluding them. The trouble with this approach is that, if you only have minimal or partial success, you're likely to end up wondering: "is the diet not working, or is it because I didn't really do it properly?" That's what happened to me when I first tried doing the SCD several years ago. Now I'm back for a second attempt (along with my children this time), and I'm being extra-careful and following all the advice from the old-timers that I'd previously ignored. And this time, I really am having better results.









So anyway, here's the thread. Anyone who's doing the "slow and steady" SCD (or is interested in trying it), feel free to jump in with your stories, questions, tips, etc. One request, though: if you'd like to post a recipe or meal idea, _please make sure it's suitable for the early weeks of the diet_; no advanced foods such as nut flour, dried fruits, beans, and raw fruit or vegetable salads. Most of us are in the early stages, and it would be good to have a place where we aren't constantly being reminded of all the stuff we can't yet eat. (For those who have made it to the point where they can have those foods







, there are many other places, on MDC and elsewhere, where you can share your creations.)

And now, back to finding a storage space for all these





















and






















. The cashiers must think I have a troupe of monkeys. Well, some days, I guess that's not too far from the truth.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

I'm almost a year into the diet and so I'm probably not what you're looking for. But I wanted to say that I wish there had been something like this around when I first started. I remember how strange I felt, when I first gave up grains and starchy foods. It was like I was in withdrawal, and I felt terrible. I actually quit twice, before I finally made the commitment.

Anyway, good luck and hang in there. It's tough to make the change, but it gets easier pretty quickly.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Llyra and other advanced SCDers, please feel free to join in; it would be great to have your words of wisdom. My only concern was that I'd like to avoid the posting of advanced recipes in this thread. As they say at Pecanbread, many newcomers fall into the trap of thinking that the SCD is "the nut diet." (Gee, d'you think maybe the name of their site has something to do with it?!







)

Regarding withdrawal: Last time around, I sped through the early stages, then stayed on the "full diet" for a few months. I never really experienced any major shifts in symptoms (for better or worse), and felt a little healthier overall, but not enough to justify staying on it. The hardest part was that I was hungry _all_ the time. I had to snack constantly all day, and never felt satisfied.

This time, during the intro and beginning of stage 1, I had clear withdrawal/die-off symptoms... headaches and joint aches, constant hunger, fatigue, stool changes. It was pretty bad for the first couple of weeks, then started to ease off. Now I'm about a month in, and I have a normal appetite and a lot more energy than before. I don't feel bored or deprived, as everything we eat is tasty and nutritious, and we can still have some of our favorite foods.

In hindsight, I think the starter yogurt I was using a few years ago might have had bifidus in it. If so, that could have been the cause of my failure to respond. People often talk as if the "no bifidus" rule was something that Elaine Gottschall just pulled out of her hat... but I've been reading Dr. Haas's book, The Management of Celiac Disease, and it does talk about this issue ("an overgrowth of bacteria belonging normally to the nursling period"). In fact, in the early 20th century, celiac disease was called "intestinal infantilism," because it was characterized by an excess of bifidobacteria, which are only supposed to predominate in the gut of infants who are exclusively or mainly breastfed.

Interesting stuff!


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

BTW, Dr. Haas's book contains several case studies of successful responses to the original diet, as it was used to help children with severe malnutrition due to bowel disease. He provides a detailed description of their daily intake, and for the first few months, these children (toddlers and preschoolers) were typically eating 14-16 bananas each day.









I remember reading somewhere that Elaine G. didn't recommend eating more than two bananas a day, but I'm guessing that's for people who can tolerate a wide range of foods. If you're in the early stages, and have picky or sensitive children, it seems as if it won't hurt to give them several bananas, if that's all they'll eat by way of carbohydrates.

In case anyone is interested, here's our current menu. Still mostly intro & stage 1 foods, with a few additional vegetables.

Last night's dinner: sliced turkey, cheese, avocado, bananas, diluted apple cider/carrot juice blend

Breakfast: scrambled eggs, diluted apple cider, bananas, yogurt with honey, and sliced cheddar (b/c children ate all the eggs and yogurt, and were still hungry







)

Lunch will be: meatballs, well-steamed carrots, pureed asparagus, diluted grape juice, and "magical green pudding" made from avocado blended with honey & yogurt

Dinner will be: braised lamb shoulder chops, well-steamed artichokes, butternut squash puff, and baked peeled apples with butter, honey, and a tiny bit of vanilla

My 3 and 5 year olds turn up their noses at all green vegetables, even guacamole. This will be my first time making the avocado pudding. I think it might go over okay, since it doesn't really have a bitter taste.

Hope you all have a great day.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

hey there! We are no longer on the diet, but I have to say that I did feel that Dr. Haas' book was a great asset in embarking on this journey. It did explain quite a bit.

We have 3 people in my house that actually have a celiac diagnosis, one who was never tested but cannot tolerate gluten at all and another who was never challenged.

I'm curious, and pardon me if I'm not remembering correctly, you seem to be very well versed in homeopathic medicine. Are you using it at all in your healing process?

Your menu looks lovely by the way!


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## jewellz (Jan 8, 2008)

Subbing but not quite joining yet as I'm on a TED for 7 week old son who is having issues with what I eat. Still trying to get a baseline for the diet. I dont know what to do and its starting to compromise my breastmilk. But as soon as I do and figure out what he's intolerant to, then I'm going to start on this as I have some leaky gut/intestinal issues. I have a lot of problems and want to get better before my next pregnancy.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Hi, Panserbjorne!

I've been interested in homeopathy for years, but really buckled down to study it seriously after DD2 was born with serious congenital problems (in spite of my doing "all the right things" prenatally). Her holistic pediatrician is trained in homeopathy, and often suggests remedies for acutes. I've been self-prescribing for everyone else, which I know isn't recommended, but I stick to low potencies and it seems to work out okay. My biggest successes have been with DS's croup and my own menstrual problems. Food intolerances and behavioral issues seem to be much harder to deal with.









I haven't really been following the homeopathic threads, but I seem to remember that there was some discussion of the bowel nosodes (remedies made from abnormal gut flora). That's something I'd like to look into more, especially for DD1 who has had digestive problems since birth. She's already had noticeable improvement after just a couple of weeks on the SCD, but I think the right remedy would be a very helpful adjunct to the diet.

Jewellz, your children are very close in age to mine. (We're expecting #4 in a few months.) I'll say a prayer for you and your little guy. I hope you can figure out what's bothering him soon.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

well, this is exactly us too! Thanks for starting this. We are on about Week 7 by now. Taking it very slowly.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingmom* 
And now, back to finding a storage space for all these





















and





















. The cashiers must think I have a troupe of monkeys. Well, some days, I guess that's not too far from the truth.









This is so funny to me. I started going to the grocery store late, late at night, so I don't have to take my kids and tell them we can't buy pineapples or frozen blueberries or whatever (it's not like they are even begging for candy in the checkout! it's just easier this way). Anyway, there is this same woman who has been at my favorite store to get organic bananas, and I buy literally 8 or 9 bunches of bananas at a time. She first asked me, what I was doing with all those bananas. I just said, My kids eat a lot of bananas.








Now she knows me when I come in the door! It's kind of funny but I literally plan everything around the various ripening stages of the bananas. I have to plan ahead, so we aren't left in the cold without any at the right stage! So I always have bananas sitting around everywhere at various stages of ripeness! I'm so glad you understand!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingmom* 
BTW, Dr. Haas's book contains several case studies of successful responses to the original diet, as it was used to help children with severe malnutrition due to bowel disease. He provides a detailed description of their daily intake, and for the first few months, these children (toddlers and preschoolers) were typically eating 14-16 bananas each day.









I feel better now. My kids are eating a lot of bananas. Not quite that many though! I was worried, but now I am not! I have always wanted to get that book. I should look for it online. Isn't it out of print?

We are still very early in the diet, and are improving steadily, but we still have days of setbacks with looser mushier stools again. But overall, we've had more days of normal stools than not, and only a few tummyaches that didn't last long. Mostly we eat meat, eggs, coconut oil, olive oil, and BANANAS. And every variation thereof. We also do several well-cooked, peeled vegetables and cooked peeled apples, Golden Delicious only. It's hit or miss getting my youngest one to eat the vegs, but actually he seems to do best on just the protein, fat, and bananas. And they have both finally gained weight. It seems like when I add in more fiber, though, even the well cooked peeled vegs, he has looser stool again. I think we just need to go very slowly. We haven't tried any dairy yet, or probiotics, and I feel like that should be our next step. I'm not sure whether to try yogurt (dairy or possibly coconut), or a probiotic supplement, or enzymes.

I have some questions to bring up, but it's late, but I'll be back.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momofmine* 
It's kind of funny but I literally plan everything around the various ripening stages of the bananas. I have to plan ahead, so we aren't left in the cold without any at the right stage!

LOL... our current inventory is about 25 lb. of bananas, at 3 different stages of ripeness. That should see us through the weekend. I should probably stick some of the rock-hard green Costco ones in a paper bag, to speed up the ripening a bit. Tending the banana crop does take a surprising amount of effort. (I can't complain, though... it's much easier than applesauce. The children can eat that stuff faster than I can make it!) BTW, if you get to the store when the grocer is marking down the turning-brown bananas, you can get some really good deals. Our local Asian market had them for 19c/lb, which is very inexpensive for our area.









The Dr. Haas book was just republished a few months ago, I think, by some dedicated SCDers. It's available from Digestive Wellness, Lucy's Kitchen Shop, and a few other places.

For those who can have eggs: I just made the nut-free, dairy-free souffle bread (found under Stage 1 recipes here), and it was a big hit. The children ate the whole batch for lunch. I used half a ripe avocado, as suggested. Fortunately it didn't turn out green, more of a golden yellow. (They were highly suspicious of last night's green pudding, though they did end up eating it. It was delicious.) Since I really dislike the taste/smell of browned eggs, I used the cookie sheet method, spread the batter thinly, and baked it for much less time than the recipe said: 10 minutes on one side, then 5 minutes on the other, just enough so that the eggs were cooked through. We called it "sponge bread." It actually looked a lot like Sponge Bob.









The sponge bob... I mean sponge bread... held up well when used in sandwiches with a moist filling (we used apple butter and farmer's cheese; chicken salad would also work), but it was a bit on the greasy side when eaten with the hands. DD1 insisted on using a fork. I suspect this is due to the oil in the avocado. Other vegetables might produce a tidier, if less tasty, result.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Well, we're just coming out of a major temper explosion here. Based on past experience, I think we can reasonably conclude that too many eggs make DD1's behavior worse. It's not that surprising, esp. as I often feel kind of grumpy after eating them myself.







This also supports my suspicion that she could be helped by a homeopathic remedy from the Ferrum series, probably Ferrum Metallicum ( = iron), which has "worse from eggs" among the notable symptoms. She has a lot of the other characteristics, and I've actually tried Ferrum remedies in the past, but probably didn't stick with the idea long enough.

I find this extremely interesting, in that I recently read an Australian study in which prenatal iron supplements were associated with double the risk of behavior problems in preschool children. (This was a controlled study; they don't routinely recommend prenatal iron in Australia.) Of course, excess iron also contributes to gut dysbiosis, and iron is one of the forbidden supplements on the SCD. DD1 is the only one of our children with clear digestive and behavioral issues, and she's also had the most exposure to supplemental iron. I took iron-fortified prenatals starting a few months before her conception, and kept taking them all the time I was breastfeeding. Then I had a change of attitude, and didn't take any iron with my next two pregnancies. I still had a high-normal hemoglobin and hematocrit on every blood test, so the supplements were clearly unnecessary in my case.

As for why eggs might aggravate an iron-related problem, more so than other iron-rich foods (like red meat) ... I have no idea. Maybe it's something to do with whatever causes that nasty smell when they're browned.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

maybe it's the sulphur and not the iron?


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

The green ring that forms in overcooked hard-boiled eggs is ferrous sulfide, according to this article. So, I'm guessing the problems (and the smell) are related to the combination of iron and sulphur, esp. when the eggs are cooked too long. I'll have to try raw eggs and see what happens. If those go over okay, I'll try separating the eggs and using just the whites for baking. The yolks can go in smoothies, or can be used to thicken a sauce.

Speaking of raw eggs, when I was making the sponge bread, I was reminded of an all-raw avocado mousse that I used to make. IIRC, you separate an egg, then blend an avocado with the egg yolk and a little raw honey. Then you beat the egg white and fold it into the avocado mixture. Yum.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I'm definitely curious to see what you come up with! And yes, we are HUGE fans of raw eggs over here. My kiddos ADORE raw pudding and milkshakes. We use a similar recipe to your as well.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingmom* 
For those who can have eggs: I just made the nut-free, dairy-free souffle bread (found under Stage 1

I made this last week too. It was a LOT of work with the separating the eggs out, whipping the whites, etc, but it was worth it. I used leftover broccoli for my 1/3 cup of mashed vegs. It was not greasy, and they kids ate it with their hands. Actually, my older child opened it up like a pita and stuffed some sausage inside. (just crumbled ground pork with my own salt pepper and sage).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
I'm definitely curious to see what you come up with! And yes, we are HUGE fans of raw eggs over here. My kiddos ADORE raw pudding and milkshakes. We use a similar recipe to your as well.

We have been having daily either smoothies (banana, raw egg, CO, ice and water) or banana "pudding" which is the exact same thing just without the ice and water. We also put the pudding in the freezer for a short while and had an ice cream of sorts.

I introduced nut butter this week, very slowly, just one pancake the first day, two the next day, then my older child really, really wanted to make something, so I let him pick something from the pecanbread site and he chose the nut butter brownies, which I have had to ration today, because I want to go slow with the nuts. I can't tell if they are okay or not. Both kids have had stools this week that weren't totally normal, but they aren't falling apart anymore, they are just like softer and in several pieces instead of one formed stool, like they were having. But, at the same time, this has happened just from having more cooked vegs, so I don't know what it is.

One question about coconut oil: I had switched from the gold label Tropical Traditions to the regular organic expeller pressed. Then I started using the Gold Label again. Do you think the Gold Label could actually have stronger properties, and so it causes more loose stool, maybe die-off? I guess the only way to know is to switch back.

I want to try a probiotic again. I am thinking about a supp (custom probiotics maybe?) or coconut yogurt. I have mixed feelings about the probiotics, and the SCD recommendation for just acidophilus. The GAPS suggested probiotic has multiple strains.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

One thing to add about myself: Since adding in the nuts, it has kicked back in my cravings for sweet stuff, and I am eating way more bananas, which isn't how I feel the best. I had really kicked the whole craving sweet after the first few weeks, getting enough protein, fat, and drinking broth.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

We've also tried a few nut butter baked goods, and they really increased the cravings for me, too. Same thing with the stool changes. I guess the answer is to introduce them more slowly, but it's hard when it all tastes so good.

DD1 got some Valentine's treats at one of her classes, but she was okay about trading them for a My Little Pony thingamajig. I've also promised to make some candy for tomorrow: honey meringues, jell-o shapes using Welch's red grape juice, and maybe honey toffee if I'm feeling ambitious. My big hope is that we'll be able to have some advanced treats by Easter. It's a big holiday for us, and I timed the diet on purpose so that we'd be at the 3-month mark by then.

Speaking of Easter, I wish I could find a legal ham! Last time we were on the diet, I bought a salt-cured country ham, but the site I got it from seems to be out of business. Oh well, it probably had nitrates anyway. I guess I'll have to stick with occasional treats of prosciutto and Organic Prairie bacon. (Some people on Pecanbread and other lists have checked with OP, and they've confirmed that the bacon is okay. Only organic honey is used as a sweetener, and there are no other questionable ingredients. The Organic Prairie cold cuts are to be avoided, though; they may contain corn starch as a "processing aid," to stop the slices from sticking together. Just goes to show, you can't trust the label to disclose everything.)

For probiotics, the SCDophilus from GIProHealth is legal, and there might be some others as well. Personally, I would follow the advice to stay away from bifidus; there are just too many unknowns. This book about bifidobacteria confirms the earlier reports that it can be involved in overgrowth, and apparently it can even be invasive in immunocompromised people. As far as I've been able to find, that's never happened with L. acidophilus or the other recommended organisms (L. bulgaricus, S. thermophilus). I'd love to read the whole bifidus book, but it's $500... ouch. If someone has access to a medical library that has a copy, maybe they can take a look for us.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

I'm so glad to be having this dialogue with you and, hopefully have PB share her comments and experience too. That would be interesting to look through that book. We do have a medical school close by, I should see if it's there and if I can go by sometime and thumb through it.

I'm conflicted about the probiotics because they ultimately caused (or contributed to irritation that was causing) blood and mucus in the stool of my 4 yo. This was before we started SCD though, and they were not SCD legal probs. BUT, I went back and looked in my notes from when we were on the diet years ago with my older child, and, I couldn't believe I hadn't remembered this, but when we started the completely plain L acidophilus from Custom Probiotics, he ALSO had blood in the stool. I wrote that it seemed to help, but at the same time, it caused the blood. That was like 6 years ago, so I didn't remember that. I am hesitant to try dairy with them.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Anytime you feel like posting what you ate in a day, I'd love to have more ideas for this early stage. My husband is having a hard time getting enough to eat and is not liking eating teh same things all the time. Bssically I think he can suck it up and deal because his kids need this and he can stop at a restaurant on his way home from work if he wants to. He totally needs the diet too, has gut issues and is one of those people that is constitutionally "grumpy". But, I feel like if I can make things a little more appealing it will make it easier for him. And I'd prefer he didn't bring other food home and eat it in front of the kids. Once we get to the full diet, he'll be fine. We did it for three years before and he was fine. He ate only SCD at home, but would eat out for lunch, etc.

Here's what we've eaten so far today:
B: runny eggs, bananas

Snack (at our Valentine's party): Almond butter brownies (with half the amount of honey called for)

Lunch: chicken *salad* made with boiled chicken, mashed butternut squash, coconut oil, a few drops of honey and a pinch of salt (it doesn't sound good but I had no mayo ready so I just used what was available, and it was actually pretty good)

Snack: smoothie with bananas, eggs, CO, water and ice

For dinner I am fixing: salmon, mashed cauliflower with broth, green beans

And there have been several bananas in between too.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Do you give the kids a vitamin? I stopped when we began SCD, and I am wondering if they need it. I'd like to get a juicer and juice some fresh nutrient-dense veggies, but they are so expensive. I take that back, I have a Juiceman Jr in the way back corner of my kitchen cupboard, which does remove the pulp. I want a better juicer like an Omega or Champion. I wonder if we're far enough along for fresh juices like that.


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## grisandole (Jan 11, 2002)

moving to nutrition and good eating


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

momofmine, sounds like we might have the same husband, LOL.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that that Custom Probiotics are extremely strong.... I wonder if it was maybe your previous experience was just too much at once? Anyway, I really hope you can work around to having the yogurt; it's been great for us on so many levels. DS does have a bit of a dairy sensitivity (used to cause reflux as a baby, now he just gets congested if he has too much), but he's a giant fast-growing kid who needs all the nutrition he can get. We've tried various calcium supplements in the past, but I can't find an SCD legal one that looks child-friendly and half decent. And the dairy has other stuff, like B vitamins, that are hard to get at this stage of the diet.

Speaking of supplements... I don't like taking more than the RDA of synthetic vitamins, so we're each taking about 1/8 of a tablet of the Freeda SCD B-complex. It's kind of a hassle splitting the pills, but at least they're easy for the children to swallow. And even at that dose, it's enough to turn our pee bright yellow.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Forgot to add... We have an Omega juicer (the 8001), but it's been in storage for a few years, and now I can't find the juicing screen.







: So, as it happens, I'm planning to dig around in the garage this weekend and look for DH's old Juiceman. I know that the high speed oxidizes the juice, but if you're going to drink it right away, it should still be very nutritious. At this stage of the diet, any juicer is better than none, IMO.

In general, the Omega is better for greens like wheatgrass and kale, but the Juiceman is great for soft, juicy fruits like pineapple and grapes. Those tend to "flood" the Omega (my model, anyway), unless you alternate them with something hard like apples.

Both juicers are fine for carrots and celery. Even my ancient little Braun juicer did a good job with those.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Last night's dinner was a big hit. I made clam chowder, using small 3"-ish rutabagas instead of potatoes. (I've read that the big rutabagas are more indigestible, for some reason.) Here's the recipe I came up with:

3 tbsp. SCD legal bacon fat
1 onion, peeled and roughly chopped
3 small rutabagas, peeled, quartered, and sliced
3 medium carrots, peeled and sliced
2 stalks celery, strings removed, sliced

Saute vegetables in bacon fat over medium-low heat until onions and rutabaga are translucent. Add:

* Juice from 4 x 6.5 oz cans additive-free clams or other seafood (I used 2 cans Bar Harbor clams & 2 cans TJ's mussels), strained to remove sediment
* Homemade salt-free chicken stock as needed, so vegetables are covered
* 1/4 tsp thyme
* 2 bay leaves
* dash of cayenne

Simmer until the vegetables are tender, around 20 minutes. Puree soup with a blender. Reheat gently, adding:

* Reserved canned clams or other seafood
* 1 cup SCD French cream

If you're dairy-free, I think it would be fine without the cream. It's plenty thick on its own, but you could enrich it with an egg yolk or two.

My 16 month old was a huge fan of the chowder. She quickly abandoned the spoon, and was sticking her whole fist in and sucking it off her fingers. As soon as she'd eaten it all (which was surprisingly fast), she would bellow for another bowl.







She also took her first steps last night at bedtime. She'd been right on the verge of walking for months, but didn't seem to have the nerve. Is it just a coincidence... or was it the clams?


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Wow! I didn't know rutabagas were SCD-legal. That's good to know. What about turnips? I never checked; I was just working on the assumption that they were like potatoes, and thus disallowed.

I would be so psyched if I had a potato-substitute for stews.

Oh, well. I looked it up-- rutabagas allowed, but turnips are a no-go.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Rutabagas are okay, but they're only supposed to be used in moderation because they're quite fibrous. Otherwise, I would have used more rutabagas and skipped the carrots.

Turnips and parsnips were originally allowed, but some people didn't do well with them, so now they're considered an "experimental" food... not recommended in the early stages, but okay to try once substantial healing has taken place. (This is going from memory, as I can't find my copy of BTVC. If I'm getting this wrong, feel free to correct me.) Parsnips are quite high in carbs & fiber relative to the other permitted root vegetables, so it makes sense that they could be problematic. Turnips are comparable to carrots and rutabaga in their carb count, though, so I'm not sure what the trouble with them is. In any case, I'm guessing that big turnips would cause more problems than little ones.

BTW, you can also use cauliflower in the chowder, instead of rutabaga. Low-carb web sites have a lot of recipes that use cauliflower, including "cauliflower mashed potatoes," which are very tasty.







Again, though, don't go overboard. Too much indigestible fiber seems to be problematic for many of us.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingmom* 
momofmine, sounds like we might have the same husband, LOL.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that that Custom Probiotics are extremely strong.... I wonder if it was maybe your previous experience was just too much at once?

so we're each taking about 1/8 of a tablet of the Freeda SCD B-complex. It's kind of a hassle splitting the pills, but at least they're easy for the children to swallow.


Maybe we can get them together!

I don't really remember now about the CP probiotics, but I am thinking that we did go slow, but I don't really remember what the ultimate outcome was. So, are you just doing yogurt and no probiotic supp? Your experience with dairy sounds like ours, which is why I have been avoiding it. I also have this hang-up because last year (while not on SCD) I finally decided to let my kids try drinking raw milk (they had never had milk before, only cheese and yogurt) and within a couple of months, they both got strep for the first time. This is just my own baggage, but I had strep repeatedly as a child, then found out I was allergic to dairy, and after removing dairy, never got strep again.

(SIDE NOTE TO PB IF YOU'RE STILL HERE: HEY! Is THAT what you are talking about with miasms?? There is a light bulb going off for me right now.)

I've been considering trying dairy again, but I also just wonder about dairy in general, aside from my own experience. As a food, were we meant to drink other animal milk? I don't know, I'm still trying to figure out what I think about that.

How old are your kids that are swallowing the 1/8 pill? I've never tried it with mine. I do think I need a B supp.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingmom* 
Both juicers are fine for carrots and celery. Even my ancient little Braun juicer did a good job with those.










That's good to know about the juicer. I may drag it out and try it. Since we aren't doing anything raw yet, I can still put raw vegs and fruits in the juicer and drink that? Because we aren't getting the fiber? Is that correct?

Thanks so much for the chowder recipe, sounds awesome. I was holding off on celery and onions, because of the fiber. We've had onions just a handful of times in these two months. Maybe we can try celery now.

Regarding cauliflower, I use that all the time. I make the mashed cauliflower "potatoes" practically every other night. Since we were avoiding dairy, I use chix broth instead of butter. It's a little runnier, but still very yummy. And thanks for the egg thickening tip. I have used an egg in the cauliflower potatoes to thicken it, and it was very yummy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingmom* 
* Juice from 4 x 6.5 oz cans additive-free clams or other seafood (I used 2 cans Bar Harbor clams & 2 cans TJ's mussels), strained to remove sediment

Are you finding additive-free canned seafood at Trader Joe's? I was wondering about crabmeat. The only I have been able to find is the Phillip's in cans, which is very expensive, but it had sodium acid pyrophosphate (to prevent the formation of struvite crystals). Same thing with shrimp, can't find the frozen shrimp without additives either.

And, definitely YES to that on the fiber. I have found that too much fiber is what causes problems for them again too, more mushy, floating, looser stools. But then I have to balance it out by getting enough fat into them, so that they go. It's a fine line here right now. My kids definitely don't get constipated, just the fat seems important to keep things moving, not the fiber, as most people think.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Sorry to have been away from the thread so long. We've had a lot going on... nasty weather, multiple power outages, my car broke down, and at one point we even ran out of ripe bananas. (The horror!!!)

The strep/dairy connection is interesting. At 10 months, DD1 got a rash that the ped diagnosed as "textbook scarlet fever." This is quite rare in babies, and I've always suspected that it was related to my introducing raw kefir a few days earlier. At the time, we didn't have access to a homeopath or other alternative practitioner that we trusted, so we ended up giving her the antibiotics. I was very conflicted about it, as I knew it was a bad idea to suppress a rash (and she didn't even seem very sick, just bright red), but but my grandfather had had serious health problems from rheumatic heart disease, so we weren't comfortable just waiting it out.

My 3-year-old can swallow the cut-up vitamins without any problems. If he couldn't, I'd do my usual trick: crush them and mix them with a little honey or homemade jam. It works for pretty much everything.

Regarding seafood, we get canned fish and mussels at Trader Joe's, clams and smoked oysters by the case from Amazon, and frozen fish and scallops from a few different places. We're not especially fond of crab or shrimp, so I haven't looked for those since we've been on the diet. I do recall that shrimp virtually always has sulfites, and often (in the case of Chinese farmed shrimp) has unapproved drug residues. Sulfites are SCD legal, but I tend to get headaches from them, so shrimp is pretty much out for us.

As for the question of what we were "meant to" eat, I'm not sure how one could go about establishing such a list (though having a copy would certainly make life easier







). One thing I do know is that many healthy populations, in diverse parts of the world, have been consuming dairy products for thousands of years. They're a food of civilization -- as are grains and pulses -- but civilization is a natural part of being human. If I were to give up dairy on the grounds that it wasn't available to my hunter-gatherer ancestors, I'd also have to give up central heating, air conditioning, electric light and refrigeration... not to mention tropical, out-of-season, canned, or frozen fruits, coffee and tea, distilled liquor, carbonated water, and honey as more than an occasional delicacy. These things have been part of my ancestors' lives for far less time than dairy products, and one could certainly come up with an argument against each of them on health grounds. But I'm not going to be the one to take a stand for "paleo purity." The SCD is hard enough as it is, without having to stand over a smoky campfire dressed in animal skins, making applesauce from some wrinkled old apples that I've stored in the back of my cave. Cheese is a venerable food, and it agrees with my digestion, so I'm happy to be able to have some... along with a dish of guacamole, a glass of lemonade, and (once this baby is born) an occasional scotch and soda on the rocks.







:


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

:

Oh yes the animal skins. Too funny. I totally see what you are saying. Yes, tropical fruits would be out, unless you lived near them. I guess dairy is just a hard one for me because I have never tolerated it well, and it always makes me wonder if our bodies were designed to drink breastmilk from another species. I do agree that many populations have been thriving on it, and maybe after healing my own body more I will be able to handle it better.

Sorry you guys have had a rough week! That's very interesting about your ten month old with the scarlet fever rash. Yes, strep is very, very rare in one so young. I know it does happen, but it's just not at all common. Did she have any residual effects from the abx? Are you on the SCD for yourself mainly or your kids? When my 3 yo had abx for strep, he had never had abx before in his life, and has never since then, but that one round of abx messed up his digestion and gut flora so much that we worked for almost a year to get things back to normal before now trying SCD. It's really quite crazy.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

I need to make a cake for a birthday celebration, and we have tried almond and pecan butter, but I'm keeping it limited right now. BUT, I am out of the nut butters, and have to order them (because we need peanut-free ones), and the only thing I can actually buy at a local store that would be peanut-free is Sunbutter. SCD says to wait three months for seeds, but do you think Sunbutter would be okay? And we are exactly two months.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

I guess you've probably made some kind of cake already, but FWIW I wouldn't chance the Sunbutter. Well, maybe if it was a one-time thing, and you were each only going to have a tiny serving... equal to a couple of teaspoons of seeds. Anyway, I hope it went (goes?) well.









We're still kind of in the doldrums around here. Late last week, we had to go to a social event at an unfamiliar restaurant, and I got glutened.







It was just one bite, but I was in horrible shape for the first few days and I'm still not back to normal. Now I'm finding myself wondering if some of my ongoing problems have been due to low-level gluten ingestion. After many years of being GF, I'd become fairly relaxed about cross-contamination, even to the point of eating McCann's and Country Choice oatmeal (this was before "GF oats" were available) and sharing a dishwasher and toaster oven with my gluten-eating family. Of course, that wouldn't account for the whole picture, as I also have trouble with additives and refined carbs in many commercial GF products. And it's still a mystery as to how I developed this gluten sensitivity in the first place.

I'm actually thinking about taking my kids off the SCD, and just having them be GF with minimal packaged foods. I'm pretty sure that would be fine for my younger two, as they don't have a lot of digestive or behavior issues. I'm not so sure about my eldest; the diet might be helping her, though it's hard to tell for certain. Anyway, for the sake of harmony I think it should be "all or none," and it's become really hard to keep up with feeding all of them, especially my 3 year old DS who eats like a horse. If I could just serve him some starch with his meals, I know he wouldn't be clamoring for snacks every couple of hours, which would make life a lot easier.

As for me, I think the diet is helping a lot, and I really want to stick with it... but I'm hardly gaining any weight, which is a bit of a concern as I'm well into the 2nd trimester and wasn't huge to start with (though I was somewhat overweight this time around). The lack of weight gain is in spite of substantial regular meals, and frequent snacks of Havarti, guacamole, fresh apple juice, farmer's cheese, and other high-calorie foods. I'll have to see how things go in the next week or two. And I really need to get back to the store that sells the SCD legal bacon.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

I didn't gain as much weight during the middle part of my 2 nd pregnancy either, and only gained about 20 or 22 pounds the whole time, but I started off about 10-15 pounds over my ideal weight. I ate about 80% SCD the whole time, but allowed myself limited sprouted grain bread, occassional GF grains, and some bars like Larabars. But that was minimal. Actually I probably ate more like 90 or 95% SCD. I think if you are eating well, and started off overweight, and feel good, I wouldn't be concerned. but if you are concerned, I would just get more legal carbs than going back to GF carbs. Also make sure you are getting plenty of good fats. I didn't realize you were pregnant, congratulations!


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momofmine* 
I think if you are eating well, and started off overweight, and feel good, I wouldn't be concerned. but if you are concerned, I would just get more legal carbs than going back to GF carbs. Also make sure you are getting plenty of good fats. I didn't realize you were pregnant, congratulations!

Thanks









Regarding the fat, I was eating a ton in the beginning, but haven't paid as much attention to that since the children started the diet. Before going on the SCD this time around, I'd been experimenting with the "Optimal Diet", which is low-carb and very high-fat, with an emphasis on organ meats and specific animal fats: cream, butter, egg yolks, and lard. Very TF and nutritious, but I was uncertain about continuing with it. The OD isn't very well known in the US (I just stumbled upon it online), so there isn't much of a supportive community here, and I'm not sure what sort of adjustments are supposed to be made in pregnancy. The SCD seemed safer, esp. since I was pregnant with now 3 yo DS the last time I tried it, and he's always been pretty healthy.

At first, I tried doing a high-fat SCD, with around 100-150 g each of protein and carbs, and the balance from fat. IIRC, this worked out to about 60% of calories from fat, vs. around 80% on the OD. This was hard to keep up with; I actually needed a spreadsheet to make sure I didn't slip into "high protein" by mistake. I had to put French cream on everything, add extra fat to all meat dishes (even the ones made with fatty cuts), and even spread butter on my cheese.







Speaking of which, I love butter, but without starchy foods or baked goods to have with it, I find I'm eating a lot less. The creator of the OD, Dr. Kwasniewski, actually recommends eating your daily carb allowance in the form of potatoes, as they're such a good vehicle for fat... LOL.

But then the banana-eating hordes descended, and I've been spending so much time keeping everyone fed that I haven't had time to concentrate on getting lots of fat. We still eat more fat than average, but it's not a huge amount. So I'm not joking when I say I desperately need the legal bacon! And additive-free heavy cream for the yogurt. In the beginning, I was making two types of yogurt: the "light" kind with half and half, and the "heavy" one with cream.

BTW, there's a really good blog about very high-fat diets. Lots of commentary on the latest scientific research. The comments are often interesting, with quite a few discussions about the OD, Paleo, SCD, WAPF, Failsafe, etc.

Hyperlipid blog: http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Forgot to mention that the munchkins are off the diet as of breakfast. We were out of bananas, so I gave them each a GF tortilla that I found in the freezer. (I never noticed before how much JUNK is in those! Soy derivatives, canola oil, even corn syrup... and these are made by a small local producer, and sell for $$$ at Whole Foods.







: ) They haven't had any noticeable reactions. What's more, it's now three hours later, and there have been no complaints of hunger. Phew. I'll put them back on the diet if things seem to deteriorate, but for now it's nice to have some breathing room.

We're also getting a 2nd fridge delivered on Monday. This is something that we were planning to do pre-SCD, but having five people on the diet made it almost a necessity. I'm not happy about the extra energy usage, but it will be replacing a small upright freezer (which was being used to store mail-ordered GF baked goods), so it won't have a huge impact. And I'm thinking it will prevent a lot of wasted food. We don't currently have room for all our CSA vegetables, so quite a lot of the produce goes bad, and even the stuff we eat has often lost a lot of its vitamins by the time we get around to using it.

I'm thinking we can keep the spare fridge a little warmer than the main one, and just use it for stuff that's not too temperature sensitive, like cheese, apples, pickles, and root vegetables. Kind of like a root cellar... which I'd love to have, but isn't really possible in a rented bungalow in a warm climate.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Well, I just made my first SCD mistake (not counting the gluten incident, which was apparently due to the waiter not really listening). We've already had small amounts of mango in mixed fruit purees, with no ill effects. I bought a case of mangos last week, and they're now perfectly ripe, so I figured this would be a good time to start eating them. We usually have bananas at breakfast, so I just went about slicing and serving the mangos the same way, forgetting that they're supposed to be cooked & pureed at this stage. So I just ate a whole raw mango. It was a small one, but still.... I feel like an outlaw, LOL.

Anyway, it was so good -- and I felt so much more "alive" afterward -- it reminded me that this cooked-food diet is bound to be missing some nutrients. I really need to find the juicer. (We never did get around to searching the garage the last two weekends, what with the power outages and gluten poisoning and everything.)

Hope you're doing well.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Not sure if anyone is still following this thread (momofmine, are you buried under a mountain of bananas?







), but just wanted to bump it in case any newcomers are interested in joining.

I was just starting to feel back to normal after the gluten incident, then I had to do the gestational diabetes screening yesterday. (I was able to use an alternative testing method in previous pregnancies, but due to DD2's congenital problems, I'm considered somewhat "high risk" this time around.) My score was fine; I guess all that grape juice and honey has got my system used to handling simple sugars.







Unfortunately, I felt absolutely terrible today... weak, dizzy, etc. I haven't felt so bad for years. I doubt it's just from the glucose; I'm more suspicious of the additives in the drink. The stuff is toxic swill. If we end up having more children, and I'm pressured to do the test again, I'm going to demand that they provide a pure glucose solution.

BTW, I tried the "Lois (Not Lang) Herb Bread" on this page. It contains egg whites rather than whole eggs, can be made with nut butter instead of nut flour, and it's unsweetened and dairy-free. It's crumbly, but delicious.... kind of scone-like. Makes a tasty snack.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Hi! I'm still around! Yes, still monitoring banana ripeness at various stages around the house. I've finally gotten used to the looks and questions from the store clerks when I buy *literally* 10 bunches of bananas at one time. I think I need some catchy comebacks. I usually get, "Are you making banana bread?" Or, "Whoa, what are you going to DO with all those bananas??"
LOL

I'm sorry you had to drink that horrible stuff. I did the "alternative meal" test the first pregnancy, because I refused to drink it, and the 2nd time I just skipped.

So, how are the kids doing?

I am now wondering when to intro some raw stuff for my two boys. They are doing really well. Gaining weight and stools getting better and better.
I think I may try adding in enzymes first. We also aren't doing any kind of probiotics, and I really want to try some, maybe some sauerkraut juice, or coconut yogurt. I am still hesitating on trying dairy with them. I tried butter, and after two days (of not much of it at all) they had a cold, which they could have been getting anyway, but...I stopped the butter anyway.

ETA: THANKS! for the bread link!


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Glad you're still here!







It's great to hear that your boys are doing so well. Are they having much in the way of raw juices yet? If not, that would probably be a good place to start. It would be wonderful if they could start having the raw stuff soon.

My children are doing okay, though I've seen a bit of a decline in their behavior and digestion since they went off the SCD. It's been most noticeable in the last few days, after they started eating bread made from Pamela's GF mix (I bought a case from Amazon a while back, and still have several packages), so it might be the additives rather than the grains per se. I'll try going zero tolerance on the packaged stuff for the next little while. If that doesn't help, I'll put them back on the diet, maybe starting dairy-free this time. I'm still a little nervous about my ability to keep up with the cooking -- they're such bottomless pits when it comes to food -- but the extra fridge should make things easier. We go through about 6 dozen eggs per week as it is, and that would probably increase if they were off dairy, or if we were having more of the nut breads.

The SCD-type meals have really helped to make a dent in my children's pickiness, especially now that I've started withholding the sweet stuff until the main dish gets eaten. This morning, I made a breakfast that was inspired by my Polish cookbook: sautee some thinly sliced mushrooms and green onions, then throw in a can of kippers (drained) and stir them around a little, then add half a dozen eggs and scramble it all together. It was very tasty, and my children are used to having smoked fish for breakfast, but they turned up their noses at first because of the vegetables. Still, they eventually ate it when they realized that nothing else was forthcoming.







This is the first time *ever* that DD1 has eaten scrambled eggs with any sort of green stuff mixed in... and I've tried many, many times. Combined with her newfound willingness to eat avocado and cooked carrots, it's a near miracle.

Meanwhile, I'm still recovering from my Glucola debauch.







Last night, I took some Carbo Veg. (charcoal in homeopathic potency), as the symptoms were a good match and it's helped me with other problems in the past. Since then, my digestion has been worse if anything, but my mood and energy level have been better. I think that's a good sign. We also just received a book that I ordered 2nd hand online... it's an older book by Carol Sinclair, I forget the title, but she developed a low-starch diet to treat IBS, and it's also been used to help people with ankylosing spondylitis (a type of arthritis). It's a similar principle to the SCD; the goal is to starve out klebsiella, which is a pathogen that feeds on undigested starch. I'm looking forward to reading it. It seems like a simpler diet, so it might be helpful for DH. He claims to want to do the SCD, but somehow manages to forget all the rules when he's at work and one of his colleagues brings in take-out. (It's a mysterious syndrome whereby the aroma of General Tso's chicken causes an abrupt decrease in blood flow to the brain.







)


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingmom* 
We also just received a book that I ordered 2nd hand online... it's an older book by Carol Sinclair, I forget the title, but she developed a low-starch diet to treat IBS, and it's also been used to help people with ankylosing spondylitis (a type of arthritis). It's a similar principle to the SCD; the goal is to starve out klebsiella, which is a pathogen that feeds on undigested starch. I'm looking forward to reading it. It seems like a simpler diet, so it might be helpful for DH. He claims to want to do the SCD, but somehow manages to forget all the rules when he's at work and one of his colleagues brings in take-out. (It's a mysterious syndrome whereby the aroma of General Tso's chicken causes an abrupt decrease in blood flow to the brain.







)

LOL, yes that's a strange syndrome, quite common I think.









Can you post the title of that book? When we had a CDSA for DS1 years ago, Klebsiella was the main bacteria he had. Plus, I think he still does worse with things like butternut squash. It is supposed to be one of the main easy vegetables, but I think it might have too much starch. But it is really hard to do without out winter squash, with not having so many other things (no dairy, no almond flour yet). What happens is his stools get a bit more mushy and they come out in lots of small pieces, as opposed to being one or two long formed pieces. But he's gaining weight at an amazing rate, after having actually lost a few pounds, so I haven't cut out the butternut squash completely, I just limit it. But that's one reason why I was thinking digestive enzymes.

I haven't done the raw juice yet, but that is definitely on my list. I actually re-started the intro for myself using the GAPS intro (which feels much harder, but I'm going through it quickly this time). I was sneaking raw fruit for myself for about a week (haven't done it with the kids yet) and it really set me back. Increased cravings, weight gain, starting to get a few other symptoms I had before.

I am getting the same underarm rash I had when I first did SCD intro, but it's not as bad. I wonder if it could be due to being in ketosis?

I'd love to read that book too.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Also, I think with the diet sometimes we don't see immediate sx when stopping, but it comes back over time. Just to say though, that both my kids were bottomless pits for the first month or 6 weeks, I am literally eating every 2 hours or more. And they were STARVING all the time. But now their appetites have normalized, and we can go three meals a day, with bananas and leftovers for snack if they are hungry in between. I try to make a lot of things that will have leftovers for at least a snack, like cook a large pork roast int he crock pot and make the boiled-down tomato bbq sauce and have pork bbq, for example. They eat a lot of hamburgers, a lot of smoothies with bananas, raw egg, coconut oil.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Triple posting here, but I have re-started using the GAPS intro for myself, and I am feeling super low blood sugar. This happens to me when I do the SCD intro too, and I wake up by about the third morning feeling weak, heart beating faster, very impatient. It makes me want to move forward quickly, but at the same time I want to do this right. But I just want to eat a banana. Not sure what to do.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

There's a GAPS thread in Traditional Foods that got started a few days ago; maybe someone there might have a suggestion?

The GAPS concept is interesting, but there's no way I'd be able to do their intro diet in the third trimester. Just thinking about it makes me hungry. Last night, I was feeling a wee bit peckish at dinnertime... and ended up having three 1/4-lb hamburger patties, a couple of bananas, a big glass of grape juice, and 1/2 lb of cheese. And that's not including all the after-dinner snacks.







It turns out that I've actually gained a few pounds in the last month. Well, at that rate, I should hope so! LOL

On the down side, I took the kids for an extra-long walk in the park today, and got a bit overheated and thirsty... and now I'm having a flare of my CFS/ME symptoms. I was really hoping the SCD would help with that, but I guess not in the short term, at least. Maybe I should start taking extra EFA's. I think the baby is stealing them all.







Seriously, I was in relatively good health after having each of my daughters, but had a really bad flare after DS (the middle child) was born. I was seeing an acupuncturist at the time, and she said it was because he was a boy, and pregnancies with boys are very different from pregnancies with girls. She didn't explain why, but I just read recently that boys need a lot more EFA's, so I guess that's part of it.

BTW, I'm still reading the Sinclair low-starch book. In terms of eliminating starch, it's even more strict than the SCD: no bananas or beans whatsoever; even apples, mango, pineapple, avocado, and most cooked vegetables are suspect. (For the questionable foods, you're supposed to get a dropper bottle of iodine, and test samples of the food to see if it changes color.) At the same time, it's less strict regarding sucrose and lactose. The author acknowledges that disaccharides can be a problem, but encourages people to use their own judgment as to how much they can handle. All in all, it's definitely a "control of symptoms" diet rather than a true healing diet. The author has actually developed *more* intolerances in the years that she's been on it, which isn't a good sign. I'm not sure if she's starving out the bacteria, or just making them really angry...


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Thanks for the heads up on the GAPS thread over there. Yeah, I don't think there is any way you could do it third trimester unless you ate a ton of veggies like Butternut squash and had someone constantly preparing soup for you. Even still, I don't know. I am basically starving right now, because I cannot keep up with cooking for my boys and cooking soup for myself. I do think it's helped though, even just for this week, to do the GAPS intro. For me at least, I had started really craving fruit and nuts and carbs again, after trying some raw fruit, and I knew my body was not ready for that.

I am just inching my way back up to where my boys are on SCD. We still aren't doing anything raw yet, but I can I just say that my older child has gained over SEVEN pounds in less than two and a half months??







:







:







:







:

I can't even tell you how overjoyed I am. It is so clear they needed this diet. before we did the SCD, I was trying to load them up with fat, doing coconut oil, smoothies, etc, etc, and he was actually losing weight. His poops were just falling apart in the water, and I don't think he was absorbing the nutrients he needed from his food. Now, I am just amazed. He has had a resurgence of being hungry all the time again though. Sometimes it seems like he easily eats 3-4 times as much as I can in one sitting.

I read the reviews of that Sinclair book on amazon. She actually says you can eat ice cream because it's frozen? I don't get that. I think the SCD makes a lot more sense, but it's an interesting theory.

What I found most interesting though was that a reviewer said she talks about klebsiella in the book, and people with an overgrowth of this really benefit from her diet. When my older child was a toddler and we did the CDSA, that was the main pathogen found in his stool! AND he is the one who still doesn't do the greatest with butternut squash. Makes his stool more mushy, lots of smaller pieces. Still doesn't fall apart in the water like it did pre-SCD, so I have continued to feed him butternut squash, just not every day. but, like I said, he is just so hungry all the time, so I feel like he needs as much variety right now as I can get him. Taking out winter squash would be hard. I am just going to stick with it for now, the long haul approach.

I do want to add in enzymes or juice from sauerkraut really soon, just have been too overwhelmingly busy lately to get anything new started!


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## jamie79 (Mar 18, 2006)

I havent read the whole thread, but can you do SCD with a LOT of food allergies? I mean A LOT!!

Jamie


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jamie79* 
I havent read the whole thread, but can you do SCD with a LOT of food allergies? I mean A LOT!!

Grains and starchy vegetables are out altogether on the SCD, and beans and nuts are out in the beginning (and some people never manage to tolerate them), so you can definitely manage without those. You do need to use some kind of nuts if you want to make the substitute breads, muffins, etc., but they're not nutritionally essential.

As for dairy and eggs... it's not too bad if you have to eliminate one of them, but if you have to eliminate them both, it would be really hard. Still, there are some people who've managed it. Basically, as long as you can eat some meat and/or seafood (including bone broth and organs), some fats, a few fruits, and a few not-too-starchy vegetables, it should be do-able.

You might want to check out Pecanbread.com. They also have a pecanbread Yahoo group that's very active. Many of their members are using the SCD for autism spectrum conditions, and quite a few of them are dealing with multiple food allergies and intolerances.

If you have any more specific questions, feel free to ask.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Momofmine, that is awesome about your DS's weight gain.









I wish it worked like that for my DD. Her behavior was better during the few weeks that she was on the SCD, but if anything, she was getting even skinnier. She seems to be gaining more now that she's just gluten-free. (I'm still going light on grains for the children, so the main difference is that they've gone back to having raw milk with their meals.)

Last night's dinner was inspired by all the GAPS talk. It's basically an attempt to use up a bunch of CSA vegetables. It's a "mid-stage" recipe, because the fennel is pretty fibrous. I didn't try it on the children (they had some leftovers), but DH and I thought it was delicious.

In a wide, deep skillet, heat:

2 cups frozen chicken broth
2 cups frozen sliced cooked chicken

When the broth is melted, add:

1 bunch greens (I used Red Russian kale), stems removed, leaves left whole
1 leek, white & light green parts only, thinly sliced
2 carrots, thinly sliced
1 fennel bulb, cored & sliced
2 cloves garlic, peeled & cut in half
1 bay leaf

Sprinkle with 1/4 tsp salt and 3/4 tsp dried thyme. Simmer until done to taste.

The flavor was wonderful, and it was a pleasant change from all the fatty food we've been having recently, but it took three huge bowls before I felt full. I'm not sure if I could even last a day on that alone. I admire your persistence on the soup regime!


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Woo-hoo! My Optimal Diet books have arrived from Poland. I'm so excited.









After looking over the first book, I'm confident enough to try eating this way for the rest of the pregnancy. Dr. K estimates that 2 million Poles are already following the diet (that's around 5% of their population), including many pregnant and nursing women. He does recommend upping carbs to 100-150 g at the end of the third trimester, so that the baby can build glycogen stores.

The OD is a natural fit with the SCD or GAPS; you just have to tweak your meals so that they follow the prescribed protein/fat/carb ratio, and make sure to get the ideal kind of fats and proteins (from organ meats, eggs, etc.). The only tricky part is that some of the recipes use a little wheat flour as a binder. I'll have to figure out something to substitute, so as to get an edible result with the correct ratio.

Anyway, just wanted to share that. I'll start an Optimal Diet thread in the TF forum, in case anyone else wants to discuss it.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

I need to try some probiotics. Are you taking any hummingmom? I need to make some fermented veggies too. Feeling slow and overwhelmed today...I need to stop staying up so late!


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

No probiotic supplements here. I've just been using the homemade yogurt, and sometimes a little bit of finely ground sauerkraut.

I've realized that I need more structure in my eating habits; otherwise, I forget to eat, get too hungry, then binge on fruit or cheese.







: As I said in the Optimal Diet thread, I think the super-high fat thing would be too extreme for now. I've been thinking about aiming for 2400 calories, as follows:

60% from fat = 1440 calories (160 g)
20% from protein = 480 calories (120 g)
20% from carbs = 480 calories (120 g)

These seem like reasonable numbers for pregnancy. Dr. Brewer recommends at least 100 g of protein, so no problem there. As for the carbs, based on what I've seen on low-carb discussion boards, even mainstream OB's say that 75-100 g should be enough to stay out of ketosis.

This means that I'd need to eat 6 meals/snacks a day, averaging out to 20 g protein, 20 g carbs, and 26 g fat each. Yikes... I haven't been eating anywhere near that much, aside from the binges (which are usually after the children are in bed, and I have time to relax and realize how hungry I am).

So it would need to look something like this:

Breakfast (7:30)
Mid-morning snack (10:00)
Lunch (12:30)
Afternoon tea/snack (3:00)
Dinner (5:30)
Evening snack (8:00)

I'll try making up a bunch of entrees and snacks that are fat/protein balanced: egg salad, chicken salad, tuna salad, bacon & eggs, cheese spread, creamy yogurt, liver pate, meatballs in sauce, etc. Then I can just eat those with a large serving of steamed vegetables, or a moderate serving of fruit. Along with the honey in my coffee, that should do the trick.

Wish me luck... we'll see how well this works.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Just an update... the high fat thing is going really well for me, and also for my toddler, who's taken to it like a duck to water. She wasn't crazy about eggs before; she would eat them, but only if there was nothing else around. When I add a lot of butter, though -- like a tablespoon or more per egg -- she gobbles them down and kicks her legs in glee.







Now that I'm not so worried about getting calories in her, I've stopped giving her the organic baby formula, and have started her on the SCD as of today (though I'm skipping the intro, as she's so tiny). She's had by far the most antibiotics of any of us, thanks to her surgeries, so it would be surprising if she didn't have at least some sort of imbalance.

I've been on the diet for just over two months, and have progressed to a variety of more fibrous vegetables, and small amounts of the very finely ground almond flour from Digestive Wellness (i.e., early stage 3 on the Pecanbread chart). The almond flour seems to agree with me better than the almond butter did, probably because it doesn't contain the skins. I still have occasional cycles of joint pain/fatigue/stool weirdness, but nothing drastic, so I just wait it out and things are back to normal in a day or two.

The other two children will probably be staying off the SCD until after Easter, though I'm trying to make most of their treats legal anyway, so as to ease the future transition. (Okay, who am I kidding, it's so I can share them.







) I have some food-grade cocoa butter in the fridge, and I'd love to use it to make white chocolate truffles in our mini Easter egg molds, but, sadly, the cocoa butter isn't officially designated as legal. It only has 0.5% as much theobromine as cocoa does, so it's hard to see how it could hurt... but still... I don't want to start bending the rules at this point. I guess I'll just make something different for myself. Hazelnut truffles might work, if I can find a way to get them to stick together. Suggestions would be appreciated. I love hazelnuts.

For our St. Patrick's Day breakfast, we had buttery scrambled eggs with green onions, smoked oysters wrapped in bacon, Kerrygold cheese, and diluted apple cider. Later on, I made a "pudding" with raw cashew butter and bananas. With so much delicious food, I'm not tempted to cheat. Well, sometimes I do feel like chocolate would be nice.







: But I cheated with a little bit of chocolate in my first week on the diet, so I know from experience that it would just leave me feeling sick.

Any luck with the probiotic foods? I forgot to mention that we get our sauerkraut from the refrigerated section at Whole Foods. It's expensive, but we're eating so little of it at this stage, it didn't seem worth the effort to make our own. They have a couple of legal brands, with several flavors: plain cabbage and salt, kim chee, beet sauerkraut, etc. Very tasty.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

It sounds like things are going great for you guys! I think it's a great idea to ease the kids back onto the diet. It can only be good. I'm glad you are doing well with the fat. That has definitely been the case around here. It sounds like you guys have introduced more variety than we have, and maybe we should too.

I was holding off on the almond flour, and just doing pecan butter, but we hadn't had any for a while. Then I ordered some more, and it came a couple of days ago, and the kids have had a lot of it. I was thinking to myself, we should slow down on this, because we had it, then had a break for several weeks from it, and now I should introduce it back in slowly again. But that was just two days ago, and today my older ds had a slight poop accident, thinking he had to pass gas but poop came out. This used to happen more often before the SCD, but since SCD it hasn't happened once, until today. Then he did go to the bathroom, and it was very very soft, but not falling apart in the water. So I think we need to hold off on the pecan butter again and do that more slowly. Do you think I should try the almond flour instead? I have some of the blanched, skinless finely ground kind from Lucy.

And can we talk about vegetables and fruits? First vegetables, I feel like I am cooking all the nutrition out of them and am wondering when to go with slightly less cooked, and when to expand the repertoire. What vegs are you eating and how are you cooking them?

What about fruits? Have you done any raw fruits yet besides banana?

I was bummed about the setback this morning, but I really think it's from overdoing the pecan butter.

About probiotic foods, we've just been so busy, but I HAVE to make time for this this week. I was thinking about either making sauerkraut or trying coconut yogurt. I am just reluctant to do dairy yet. Any thoughts on what probiotic foods might be best to intro first?


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momofmine* 
Do you think I should try the almond flour instead? I have some of the blanched, skinless finely ground kind from Lucy.

I'm pretty sure that the skins are more of a problem for us than the finely ground nuts themselves. I haven't tried pecans yet, but they'll be next on the list.







For now, I've just been making one batch of almond muffins a week, and we eat them over the next two days or so. I do react to the muffins somewhat -- nothing major, but I've noticed some minor joint pains and digestive stuff, especially if I have more than two a day. I think this might be die-off, or a salicylate reaction (or maybe both; some people think that salicylate reactions are related to parasites, of either the visible or the microscopic kind). Either way, it's not bad enough for me to cut them out altogether.

I thought raw cashew butter would be okay to introduce, but then I read on Pecanbread that cashews are a very advanced food overall. Not sure about that??? They do have a lot of carbs (DH is now on Atkins, so I've been checking everything), and the low-starch diet book said that they were very starchy. We just used up the last of the jar, so I'm going to hold off on buying more for now, and do a more controlled trial later on.

Quote:

And can we talk about vegetables and fruits? First vegetables, I feel like I am cooking all the nutrition out of them and am wondering when to go with slightly less cooked, and when to expand the repertoire. What vegs are you eating and how are you cooking them?
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but after we'd been off the intro diet for a week or two, I just went to "medium steamed." For instance, I'll peel the carrots, cut them into fairly thin coins, and steam them for maybe 15 minutes. Enough to take the crunch out of them, but not so much that they're falling apart. Same goes if I'm sauteeing them.

Our current vegetables are mainly carrots, yellow squash, winter squash, mushrooms, avocado, artichokes, asparagus, canned green olives, onions, garlic, green onions, celery (strings removed), chard (leaves only, no stems), and spinach. We're starting to try the more fibrous stuff, such as brussels sprouts, and I've stopped peeling and seeding the yellow squash. I'm also having about 2 tbsp. of the finely-ground sauerkraut, a couple of times a week.

Quote:

What about fruits? Have you done any raw fruits yet besides banana?
I've added some green grapes, and a little peeled raw apple... maybe 1/4 of an apple. Once or twice, I've also had a few bites of raw celery (the tender inner stems) and raw mushrooms, when I got hungry while cooking. In those small quantities, they haven't seemed to cause any problems. I'm looking forward to slowly adding more raw foods, as our choices of produce are already quite limited due to sensitivities -- no tomatoes, peppers, berries, etc. -- and I'm a bit concerned about vitamin deficiencies.

Looking at the Pecanbread chart, I guess I'm in late stage 3 or very early stage 4 for fruits and vegetables. OTOH, I'm going a lot slower with the nuts, more like early stage 3, with no plans to increase them soon. I think the nuts are probably more important if you aren't having dairy.

Quote:

About probiotic foods, we've just been so busy, but I HAVE to make time for this this week. I was thinking about either making sauerkraut or trying coconut yogurt. I am just reluctant to do dairy yet. Any thoughts on what probiotic foods might be best to intro first?
I'd do the sauerkraut. It's not much trouble to make, though it does take a few days to get going, and it seems to help if you make a large batch (we use a half-gallon Mason jar).

Just worked it out, and I'm about 2.5 months into the SCD; the time has really gone by fast.







I've had some great days, and a few fairly crummy days, but overall I do feel noticeably better. I'm nowhere near 100% yet, but I know this diet is supposed to be a long-term thing. Besides, my current situation isn't the most conducive to healing, as I'm not getting enough rest or quiet time. After DD2 got out of the hospital, I said that I needed a 6-month vacation, but as it turns out, I haven't had any vacation at all. I've pretty much been running on adrenaline for the past 18 months, taking care of the children and trying to get a handle on all the clutter that's built up (which, itself, is a major source of stress). In homeopathy, they'd call that a "maintaining cause," something that stands in the way of a complete and lasting cure. I'm sure most of us have something similar going on. Diet can help a lot, but it's only part of the picture.

On that note, DH is going out of town for a week, so I'm going to lie low and probably not read/post too much. I'm planning to subsist on stewed chicken, vegetables, yogurt, and butter... and the children can finish off whatever illegal convenience foods are still lurking in the back of our freezer.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

FYI: I was just reading some old posts on the Pecanbread list, and noticed that the Organic Prairie bacon may contain corn starch (added to the packaging, to prevent sticking). I knew this was true of the lunch meats, but thought the bacon had been verified to be okay by an e-mail from their customer service. Just goes to show what Elaine Gottschall always said... "you have to get it in writing, on company letterhead."

We still have a bunch in the freezer. I think I'm just going to rinse it well and wipe it dry with a paper towel before cooking it.







There aren't any other bacons that are nitrate-free and cured without sugar... and bacon is such an important source of fats for me. It's a dietary supplement, honest.









What I'm going to do from now on, though, I don't know. Prosciutto is too salty and low-fat to work as a substitute. The natural salt pork from the HFS is *way* too salty, and IMO kind of nasty tasting. I think I'm going to have to get some pork bellies and build a smoker in the back yard.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingmom* 
We still have a bunch in the freezer. I think I'm just going to rinse it well and wipe it dry with a paper towel before cooking it.







There aren't any other bacons that are nitrate-free and cured without sugar... and bacon is such an important source of fats for me. It's a dietary supplement, honest.









I think that actually Elaine said that if the only bacon you could find was cured with sugar, then to fry it very crisply and only have it once a week. I never did that though, didn't want the sugar. But,we get just plain "sidemeat" which is cut like bacon, just a little wider. And then I put salt and pepper on it and fry it. If you can think ahead to defrost it and put the S&P on it the night before, it's even better, but I never think ahead like that! And it is easy because it defrosts pretty quickly, because it's on the thinner side. We can get this at the butcher, from the good kind of pigs! We also buy a whole or half pig at a time from our sustainable, free-range, abx-free, organic meat source, and I ask the butcher to cut some if it that way. I so the same with sausage. I just get plain ground pork, add S&P, thyme, and sage, and fry it crumbled or form into patties. Yeah, we eat a lot of sausage around here too.

I am totally realizing this about fat also. I need a LOT of fat or else I really start craving carbs and go overboard and can't break the cycle.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

I think I need to try some more raw fruits with the boys too, just little quantities, and expand our vegetables. Thanks for posting what you're eating now. I am also thinking about doing enzymes for them, and I might try to make coconut milk yogurt, since we aren't doing dairy. I feel like I've been just squeaking by the past month with no time for expanding into new territory. But it's been a full three months! They seem to be doing well, though. Thanks for sharing! Hope your week goes smoothly!


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

I'll have to look for that cut of pork. Our Whole Foods doesn't seem to carry a lot of the fattier cuts of fresh meat, unfortunately.

We could fry the other bacon crisp for a treat, but then I'd have to throw out the drippings.







Bacon is really most valuable to us as a convenient cooking fat, to add extra calories and flavor to lean meat dishes. For instance, here's something that I made recently. I bet it would work great with the sidemeat.









Veal Kidney and Mushrooms
-------------------------------

Chop 4 oz. fatty bacon and put in a frying pan over medium-low heat. Once it's given off a bit of fat, add:

1 leek (white & light green parts only), sliced
4 oz. button mushrooms, sliced

Saute for several minutes, until the mushrooms are cooked through.

Raise the heat to medium, and add:

1 grass-fed veal kidney, halved lengthwise and fatty core removed, sliced into 1/4" pieces

Stir until kidney is brown on all sides. Lower the heat and stir in a pinch of dried thyme, then continue cooking until the kidney is done to your liking.

This was a huge hit with me, and I'm sure DH would have liked it just as much if he'd been home. The girls weren't so thrilled with it, but they did eat about half of their servings. DS ate everything but the mushrooms, and then ate most of his sisters' leftover meat.







:

I have to say, though, I have no desire to eat kidneys more often than every three weeks or so. A little goes a long way with organ meats!


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Okay, I'm not doing a great job of staying offline. But I really wanted to ask about this.

The new baby is growing fast at this point (Babycenter says it's the weight of a Savoy cabbage, LOL), and I think I really need to crank up the carbs. I'm up to about four bananas a day, plus about 8 oz. of juice, a couple of teaspoons of honey, and assorted vegetables. I just added it up in my head, and I think it's around 150 grams of carbohydrate. It still doesn't seem to be enough. I've read that some SCDers, who didn't make a point of getting enough carbs during pregnancy, had smallish babies. I know Kwasniewski says that's a good thing, but I'm not willing to bank my baby's health on his theory at this point. Besides, he allows carbs pretty much ad lib in late pregnancy, and doesn't restrict starches per se... so, less strict than what I'm doing now.

I don't want to add much honey, as it's basically empty calories. Besides, too much honey, juice, or bananas seem to make me more tired. And if I increase the other fruits, veg, or nuts much more, I'll get digestive troubles.

How bad an idea would it be to add some split lentils or split peas, just as a temporary thing?







: I know it's not recommended until all symptoms have been clear for 6 months... but are they going to cause a long-term setback, or could I just go back on the proper diet for my stage after the baby is born?

On the one hand, I really need more carbohydrates, and I think (based on past experience) that the nutrients in those foods would be especially beneficial. On the other hand, I have this fear that cheating, before all the bad guys are under control, might help to breed resistant "gut superbugs."

Argh.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Yes, I hear you. That is a tough call. It seems to me like when I was on the Long Island list years ago there were several pregnant women that did just fine. I can tell you my experience with my 2nd child. With my pregnancy for DS1, I started out vegetarian, ate very high carb, and tested GBS+ and had one shot of abx in labor. Then we went on SCD for three years. Then I got pregnant with DS2 within about 6 weeks of going off of SCD. As soon as I knew I was pregnant, I went back to about 90% SCD. I ate no sugar at all, not even one teeny tiny cheat, and I limited grains. I ate on the low carb side, but I can't say that I remember how my carb intake varied in the 3rd trimester. I do know that I did not want to test + again for GBS, and I really felt that eating that way was the right thing to do.

The only non-SCD items I allowed myself were:
--one piece of Ezekial bread a day (occasionally two)
--I also sometimes had Larabars, more towards the end of the pregnancy. So yes, I guess I probably was consuming more carbs towards the end. But I seriously ate almost what we ate before when we had been on SCD, minus the almond flour muffins.

I gained less weight the 2nd time, about 20-22 pounds, and my baby was a perfect and healthy 8 lbs 7 oz. With DS1 I had gained about 50 pounds and he was 8 lbs and 16 oz, but he arrived about five days past my due date. So, I don't really think there was much difference in their weights. AND, I did test negative for GBS the second time.

So, now about you...







...what about just increasing the foods like butternut squash, avocado? I think the lentils are pretty gassy and that would feed the bugs. Have you tried enzymes? That might allow you to have more carbs. I'm sorry I'm not more help. It's late here, but I'll think about it and post back tomorrow.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

For some reason, I didn't see your post until just now. Thanks for sharing your experience.









I've been GBS+ with all of my previous pregnancies, regardless of diet, supplements, etc. (I think I was actually on the SCD when I got tested the second time.) Avoiding antibiotics was one of the main reasons why we planned home births for #2 and #3, though it didn't work out either time. On the up side, I didn't have the IV penicillin with #3, due to the urgent c/s. I sometimes wonder if that's why her digestion has been better than the others'. She ended up getting a *ton* of antibiotics -- and some formula that was added to the breast milk in the early weeks, to increase calories -- but at least my gut flora would have been reasonably good.

In fact, if we ever come to the point of really understanding all this stuff, I think antibiotics might be found to be helpful in some very tough cases. That sounds weird, but there are people on the SCD lists who've had major improvements in their IBD after taking vancomycin (while following the diet, including yogurt). If you were to fast someone for a few days, give them powerful abx that pretty much wiped out their gut flora, then start feeding them again with 100% breast milk from a reasonably healthy mother, you might be able to "reset" things. KWIM? (Not that I have any fondness for vanco... that stuff is horrible. DD still has a white mark on her forehead where it destroyed one of her veins.)

Looking back, I was hardly eating any grains when DD was in the hospital, as there weren't really any GF grain dishes on the menu other than white rice (which I avoided on nutritional grounds). I had a fairly simple whole-foods diet, consisting of meat, eggs, dairy, potatoes, refried beans, cooked carrots & peas, salad, apples, bananas, and coffee or tea. Not bad for hospital food... and it was great not to have to think about cooking and cleaning up. I was just joking with DH that my dream is for that guy with the hairnet to show up at my doorstep three times a day, with trays for all of us.









It's good to hear that your "lower-carb baby" was a healthy size. I did end up holding off on the split peas -- I soaked and prepared them, but then put them in the freezer for now. I'll probably end up just feeding them to the children.

Unfortunately, I overdid it on the fat yesterday; with DH away and various errands to run, I was too busy to cook balanced meals for myself, and ended up eating a lot of raw butter and raw milk cheese (I mean, truly a LOT, by anyone's standards







). It had me feeling pretty ill, and now I have an aversion to the stuff. But, oddly enough, I feel quite good today. Maybe I'm now fully loaded on fat-soluble vitamins? Or maybe it was an unintentional gall bladder flush. Anyway, I won't be doing it again any time soon.

Last night's dinner was grass-fed hamburger patties, cooked in a little tallow, with some slivered carrots and thinly sliced white onion added to the pan to cook alongside the meat. Very easy and good. This morning's breakfast was eggs over easy, and yogurt & wild blueberry smoothies. I've found that I can't handle very sweet smoothies, but it turns out that the entire bag of frozen blueberries only has about as much sugar as one banana. I did add a tiny bit of raw honey (about 1/2 tsp per serving), and the children also had some applesauce swirled in, which looked very nice.

Now that we're having such simple foods, I'm starting to pay more attention to presentation. Last night, I used a jar lid to shape the hamburger patties into proper circles, and they really did look much more appealing than the lumpy kind I usually make. I also bought some little square silicone molds, to make muffins that look like individual loaves of quick bread. What can I say... I'm turning into the SCD Martha Stewart.


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## leighann79 (Aug 4, 2005)

I just ordered the book last night. I'm wanting to for sure get my youngest and my DH on this diet. DD1 and DS will be along for the ride.







I also need to be, but wasn't sure if now was a good time to start. I'm 26 weeks pregnant. Does it say anything in the book about starting while pregnant? Or, do you ladies have any advice?


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Hi Leighann... I was going to bump this up for you, but I see you've already been here! Sorry nobody has replied yet. I guess we've both been busy.

Elaine Gottschall has said that starting while pregnant is fine. You just need to make sure to get enough carbohydrates. I've found that adding plenty of extra fat has also been very helpful, as it keeps me from getting too hungry.

Feel free to ask any other specific questions.


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## leighann79 (Aug 4, 2005)

Thanks!








I can't wait for the book to get here.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

:


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## leighann79 (Aug 4, 2005)

Ok, I have a question.







Although we haven't started yet I thought I'd use up some of our raw milk by making yogurt.







I'm going to incubate it 24 hours this time. Do I have to heat it up so far like it says on the pecanbreat website? Or can I leave the milk raw when I add the starter?


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Unfortunately, raw milk yogurt isn't allowed on the SCD. It would be considered an "experimental" food, to be introduced carefully once you were already fully healed. The reasons for this are:

1) Because of competition between the yogurt starter and the microorganisms in the raw milk (bacteria, yeasts, etc.), the lactose might not be fully broken down.

2) The microorganisms themselves might cause problems for some people. This is also the reason why only certain types of probiotics are allowed.

Kind of a bummer, for those of us who are used to drinking raw milk and kefir, but it does make sense -- and there's a good chance that we'll be able to reintroduce these things some day.

In the meantime, as I understand it, raw butter and cheese are fine.


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## leighann79 (Aug 4, 2005)

I saw that on the website, but it doesn't say that in the book. I wonder why that is?
We aren't on the diet yet, and I have a few gallons of raw milk to use up. I think I'll go ahead and make it that way for now. We did find a source of goat milk pretty close. We plan on trying it out soon.








Oh, and it's $6 a gallon. That's the same as the one place we get raw milk from. (the place we get it from more often is cheaper)


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## mommabear207 (Nov 19, 2007)

Thought I'd join. I did SCD for about a year but then went off it while I was pregnant because i had horrible adversion to just about every smell and texture that wasn't animals crackers or toast. After the inital year I was doing soo soo soooo much better and was doing fine during the pregancy too but since having ds (almost three months ago) i started having some flare ups ( i have crohn's) and while trying to eat better i started included lots of whole grains (stupid on my part but it sounded like a good idea). anyways i'm back on SCD. I pretty much skipped the intro bit mainly cause all this nursing is making me starving. I might go back and do it later tho.I'm not sure what stage you are on now so I won't post anything about food yet.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Hi all!

Things have been so crazy busy around here, started a new job, caring for an elderly family member, plus cooking every morsel of food from scratch. hummingmom, how are you doing? Are you getting close to your due date?

I am feeling like we are in a MAJOR rut right now, and I am cooking the same things over and over. We eat a LOT of eggs and hamburger. I feel like the kids need more nutrition, but when I add in things, they have more digestive symptoms. I decided to try enzymes. I started with a tiny part of a capsule of SCD Zyme Prime (by Houston), and was slowly increasing. Then I switched to the Zycarb, which is a broader spectrum one I think, but I didn't mean to, I just got the bags mixed up (they sent me some samples). I think the Zycarb actually helped more, but I had wanted to start the Zyme Prime very slow and introduce others one at a time. But if it helped, maybe I should just go with it.

Anyway, I am feeling like I am in a huge rut, cooking the same things all the time, like all they eat are eggs and hamburger. I need some advice and ideas! Should I start adding in more raw foods? So far they have avocado, bananas, and some limited raw berries. And last week we had salad. We never really got totally to baseline, so I don't always know if things pass for being good or not when I try them. Because sometimes they have good stools and sometimes they still have mushier stools in lots of little pieces. I do think the digestive enzymes are helping though. I think I need to sign up for the enzyme list and read more about how to get the most out of them.

So, any great meal ideas? I have mixed feelings about almond flour. After being on the diet for four months, I need to be able to make them a muffin/cookie type thing every now and then, but they don't seem to digest it very well. Their stool is lighter in color, floats, mushier, and comes out in small pieces. The butternut squash also seems to make them have the mushier/small pieces stools.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leighann79* 
I just ordered the book last night. I'm wanting to for sure get my youngest and my DH on this diet. DD1 and DS will be along for the ride.







I also need to be, but wasn't sure if now was a good time to start. I'm 26 weeks pregnant. Does it say anything in the book about starting while pregnant? Or, do you ladies have any advice?

I personally would do it while pregnant, but I probably wouldn't stay on the intro long, and I'd be sure to watch my nutrition. I'd eat lots of mineral-rich bone broth, good fats, and not limit carbs too much.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingmom* 
Unfortunately, raw milk yogurt isn't allowed on the SCD. It would be considered an "experimental" food, to be introduced carefully once you were already fully healed. The reasons for this are:

1) Because of competition between the yogurt starter and the microorganisms in the raw milk (bacteria, yeasts, etc.), the lactose might not be fully broken down.

2) The microorganisms themselves might cause problems for some people. This is also the reason why only certain types of probiotics are allowed.

Kind of a bummer, for those of us who are used to drinking raw milk and kefir, but it does make sense -- and there's a good chance that we'll be able to reintroduce these things some day.

In the meantime, as I understand it, raw butter and cheese are fine.










I had wanted to try making raw milk yogurt too, but hadn't because of this. I am going to try coconut yogurt. I keep saying this, just haven't had time to make it yet.

I hope everyone on here is doing well and the diet is helping. My kids are continuing to gain weight, but still have mixed symptoms at times. But overall, things are continuing to get better.


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## mommabear207 (Nov 19, 2007)

maybe try adding some cooked veggies? you can also make bread-like stuff from veggies& eggs without nuts. chicken is really versatile. also (unless your totally dairy free) have you tried farmers cheese?
here are some of my fav. scd blogs. i get a ton of inspiration from these and the scd cookbooks (my fav- eat well, feel well by kendall conrad (i'm pretty sure that's the right author name))....
http://milkforthemorningcake.blogspot.com/
http://scdadventures.blogspot.com/
http://nomorecrohns.com/default.aspx
http://www.glassbird.com/scd/recipepreview.html

i have a few more but these are my top go to ones. hope you enjoy as much as i do!







:


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leighann79* 
I just ordered the book last night. I'm wanting to for sure get my youngest and my DH on this diet. DD1 and DS will be along for the ride.







I also need to be, but wasn't sure if now was a good time to start. I'm 26 weeks pregnant. Does it say anything in the book about starting while pregnant? Or, do you ladies have any advice?

leighann!! You have to check out this blog that mommabear just posted! perfect timing! It's a mama who JUST gave both to SCD twins!! That's so cool!

http://scdadventures.blogspot.com/


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Hi all!







I'm off to bed, but wanted to let you know that Digestive Wellness currently has deep-discounted pecan flour (with "a little too much skin") on sale for $1.25/lb, or $6.25/5 lb. I've ordered several bags. Hope it's not going to cause us any problems.

We're still only having baked goods a couple of times a week, though I've been thinking about trying to increase the frequency. I've been using a mixture of 1/3 blanched almond flour and 2/3 pecan or walnut flour, and it seems to work very well. The pecan and walnut flours have great taste and nutrition, and seem to be the most digestible for us. The almond flour helps to improve the texture.

Things are pretty busy these days, as I'm preparing to put the children back on the diet, and also trying to get ready for the new baby (due in a month! where did the time go!!!). Right now, I'm attempting to make almost 2 gallons of yogurt in a medium-sized stock pot, inside a large stock pot full of water, sitting on a vintage electric warming plate that we inherited from DH's parents. I just hope this rigged-up contraption doesn't get too hot overnight. I'm going to have nightmares about the bath towel on top catching fire.


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## mommabear207 (Nov 19, 2007)

thought i would share this as even though i think its expensive it is very convenient! and she does birthday cakes! every week is 4 different items (listed on homepage or emailed to you). most stuff is made with almond flour....just thought i'd share as i don't remember how i came across it but i think its great she does it.

http://www.scdbakery.com/index.htm


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## Chakra (Sep 7, 2006)

I love those blogs! Thanks.


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## mommabear207 (Nov 19, 2007)

no problem! i have a few more scd related ones but those are my favs. i just hope that they inspire you too. i know this time around scd has been much easier- i have a handful of tried and true recipes and some cookbooks and blogs to visit when i need some inspiration. this time i'm not thinking about what i can't but what i can and whipping that up to fill my cravings.
things are going well for me i had a few days die off. the hardest thing is that i'm the only one scding and i cook for everyone so all this yummy smelling stuff is like 2 feet from my mouth. but i'm holding strong. keep reminding myself 1 its not good for my tummy 2 i'm getting so much fresher, less additives & packaging and 3 its a step toward self sustainablitiy i can grow/raise all my own food!


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## mommabear207 (Nov 19, 2007)

where is everyone? just want to bump this up,


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## leighann79 (Aug 4, 2005)

Well, we are easing in to it. We won't be doing it fully until some time after the baby is here. I just don't think I can take on that much yet.
We got some goat milk though and I'm making yogurt right now!


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Hi, SCD folks.







Things are in kind of a muddle around here. The new baby is due in a couple of weeks, I have nobody lined up to help (family isn't coming this time), and I'm still having an awful time figuring out what to feed all of us on a day to day basis.

First of all, 5 year old DD1, my skinny minnie, has FINALLY managed to articulate why she doesn't eat much at most meals (which has been an ongoing problem since she was a young toddler). She says that certain foods make her not want to eat later on. I'm not really surprised by the list of offenders... I'd already had suspicions about most of them... but it ties a pretty big knot in my plans to put her back on the SCD:

- Eggs
- Yogurt (but not milk or cheese)
- Chicken
- Tomatoes
- Any fast food
- Pate, liverwurst, bacon

Since she told me about this, I've gone off eggs too -- as a personal experiment, as well as a gesture of support for her -- and confirmed my long-term hunch that I have some degree of intolerance to them, too. They seem to make me tired and irritable.







I *think* both of us are probably okay with small amounts of eggs as a minor ingredient in well-cooked dishes (like crunchy cookies, or meatballs in soup), but not in things like SCD pancakes or muffins that are often kind of moist in the middle. In any case, I don't have the time or energy for a lot of experimenting in the kitchen, so our menu has pretty much gone back to the oh-so-thrilling intro diet for now -- with some raw milk and GF grains added in for the non-SCD family members.

Breakfast: DD1 and I have farmer's cheese with French cream, and everyone else has eggs. Or we all have homemade sausage.

Lunch (our main meal): a substantial dish such as pot roast, meatball soup, hamburger patties & vegetables, etc., with plenty of added fat. The children also have raw milk, GF crackers, and fruit. I have yogurt and fruit.

Dinner: the children have oatmeal or another cooked cereal, with butter. I have whatever I can scrounge up... usually lunch or breakfast leftovers.

This is actually working out okay, but I'm feeling kind of discouraged. It's like we're all treading water, KWIM? And I'm no longer feeling motivated to stock the freezer in preparation for the baby's arrival. The stuff we're eating is so plain and easy to cook, it's hardly worth making extra (though I do have a few meat dishes frozen for emergencies). On top of that, I ordered a bunch of nut flour treats from SCD Bakery and Digestive Wellness, and -- after sampling them before putting them in the freezer -- I've decided that I can't really eat them for the time being. Even if I disregard the eggs, the nut flour seems to bother my digestion too much. I'm hoping this will improve after the baby's born.

On the up side, I can eat moderate amounts of salads and raw fruit without problems, so I'm not totally back at square one. Other than the nuts (which, as with momofmine, have been an ongoing issue for us), the eggs are the only major thing I'm avoiding right now. So things are really going very well, other than not being able to have baked goods. I'm hoping to be able to add in lentils and split peas before too long. That would cheer me up; I'd choose a bowl of well-seasoned pea soup over a muffin any day.


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingmom* 
Hi, SCD folks.







Things are in kind of a muddle around here. The new baby is due in a couple of weeks, I have nobody lined up to help (family isn't coming this time), and I'm still having an awful time figuring out what to feed all of us on a day to day basis.









Hugs mama! I feel similar, but I don't have a babe due in a couple of weeks! You are doing a stellar job!! We are also still pretty much eating a lot of basics. Really short on time right now, and things are a bit hectic. Plus, the almond flour still seems to not be very well digested by us either.

However, the boys and I have been having Sunbutter lately, and that seems to be okay. So I am hoping it's fine. Actually, their stools seem pretty good this week. I am trying not to overdo it, but they have it about once a day. Too much fiber still sends us over the top though, like I tried letting them have coconut macaroons, and that was not well digested either.

I have also added in some raw salad, I couldn't resist with the farmers mkt back and all those beautiful baby spring greens, and they seem to be okay with that and some raw fruit like berries. But raw apple is not as good, so I am waiting on the other fruits like melons, pears, raw apples etc. I don't know why berries are okay.

The addition of Sunbutter, berries, and some raw salad has been really helpful, and I think we were not getting enough Vit C, and just needed that.
But I do still feel in a rut with the rest of what we are cooking. I have a few SCD cookbooks, but they are all heavy on the nuts and cheese and harder to digest foods. We aren't doing any dairy.

I don't think I'm being very helpful here, other than to just say please feel free to vent here, you are most certainly allowed.









What did you wind up doing about feeling like you needed to up the carbs here closer to your babe's birth?

One thing we are doing a lot is making smoothies. Frozen berries, bananas, coconut oil, raw eggs, sometimes honey, it gets good fats and calories into them. Although to them that is just a "drink" and they are still hungry for a "real" meal. My 9 yr old thinks that if I don't have 5 or 6 things prepared, he hasn't had a "real meal"!

We are headed to the beach for a week and I am taking an entire cooler of frozen meat.







I figure I will just buy vegetables and fruits when I get down there. I'm also taking eggs, and sunbutter. No cooking breaks for me on vacation! Too bad we didn't get a chef with the house. Next time...


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

Thanks, momofmine.







The time since my last post hasn't exactly been a picnic, but things are starting to look up here. First of all, we've found a college student who's great with the children and can help out through the summer. What a relief.

Secondly, given that I'm 4 or 5 months into the diet and feeling pretty good overall (given my extremely pregnant state), I decided to go ahead and start experimenting with some advanced foods. The very good news is that moderate amounts of dates, raisins, black beans, and lentils all seem to agree with me just fine. In fact, the legumes seem to help my digestion. So I've cut way back on nuts of all kinds, only having an occasional treat of a hazelnut cookie from SCD Bakery, and have started having some favorites like beef and black bean soup a couple of times a week. This adds a huge amount of variety to my diet, which, since cutting back on the eggs, has basically consisted of variations on meat patties and stew.

The children are still off the SCD, and I have no desire to put them back on it until after things have settled down with the new baby. The way that they're eating now -- gluten-free, whole foods, fairly high-fat -- seems to be agreeing with them quite well. Everyone is growing like gangbusters. My formerly teeny-tiny DD2 is now at the 40% for height, and is quite a chunky little miss.









Oh, and I can't forget my latest quick meal discovery: a few Trader Joe's Monterey Jack cheese sticks dipped in a bowl of guacamole. That's been my evening snack for the last few nights. I think I need to go have some right now.







:


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

That sounds yum!
What ways are you getting the higher fat into them? I feel like both mine are eating lots of protein, and I'm wondering how that is. I saw another post by you somewhere about how a pound of ground beef now can feed your whole family, that is definitely not us! They could probably eat a pound a piece. At least my older child could.
They were gaining initially, but then seemed to plateau a bit. Now my older has gained another pound again just recently. But I do think they need more fat. I have been really hesitant to do dairy again. I have been doing some butter, but not every day.
Glad you have some help!


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

New baby is here!







He's a cute little guy, 8 lb. 11 oz., 21.5" long. We've just been hanging out and resting for the last little while.

I had a hospital VBAC, which in our area means getting stuck with practically every intervention in the book, just as a matter of policy (or, as DH says, "lawyer repellent").







The way things turned out, I had to spend pretty much the entire labor in the hospital, with all the busybodies doing this thing and that. Since I'm GBS+, they were pumping me full of Ampicillin the whole time. Now I'm having severe pain with nursing (which I've never had with the previous 3 children), and the baby has a suspicious-looking white spot on the roof of his mouth. Argh. I'm going to see my doctor/IBCLC on Friday if things don't get better.

On top of that, DS2 has started having stridor and mucusy poops, just like DS1 did. I'm pretty sure it's dairy related. I tried cutting out everything except butter for a couple of days, and it got much better -- then I had sour cream with breakfast this morning, and he's back to sounding like a goose this afternoon. DH doesn't want me to give up dairy, though; he saw what happened last time I went the elimination diet route, when (in hindsight) I got really malnourished. It's hard enough to find stuff to eat with the SCD. So I'm thinking about trying homeopathy and nutritional supplements instead.

Okay, end of grouchy postpartum rant!







Hope you're all well.

Momofmine, to add fat to meat dishes, I'll either throw in a big chunk of beef tallow or lard (if it's a stew), or else I'll sautee some vegetables in lots of fat, until it's pretty well soaked up. Mushrooms, onions, summer squash, and green beans all work well.

We also eat a lot of avocadoes. The US-grown ones are in season right now.







:


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## PeachBaby (Apr 3, 2009)

Hi! I am so glad to have found this thread! So excited to find it that I haven't even read all the posts yet, but will go back to do so asap. But I wanted to know if anyone knows whether this SCD is safe (for mama to do for herself) for the sake of her ebf baby. DS is 7 months old. He reacts to foods that *I* eat, so I know that I need to do some serious gut healing. So I am wanting to go on the SCD myself while allowing ds to ebf. I really want to bf and not give formula if at all possible. However, the support groups I see seem to be for adults or for children that are already eating solids. Does anyone know if *mama* can do this to heal her gut for the sake of her ebf lo? I know they say it is safe for pregnant women, but I haven't found whether it is okay for nursing mamas. Thanks so much!


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

IMO, absolutely yes. And I am pretty sure the book says it's fine too. Just be sure you are getting enough calories. I would also want to be supporting my detox pathways with things like Vit C. I think this is the easiest time to do it actually, because you don't have to wean the child from the foods he was introduced to like rice and wheat. Then when you introduce foods to baby it can be wholesome, fresh, wonderful SCD foods, like banana, butternut squash, pureed meats, etc, as his first baby foods.


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## mellowjello (Jul 22, 2008)

Hi, this is a great thread, thanks for starting it! We definitely need to do things slow and steady.

I am researching SCD and GAPS for myself and DD (22 mos). We definitely have gut/overgrowth issues. We've been on limited diet for awhile, mostly meats (chicken, beef, bison, lamb, pork), GF grains (quinoa, wild rice, and millet - ALL SOAKED), leafy greens, broccoli, cauliflower, bok choy, red cabbage, red pepper, carrot, egg yolk (whole egg for me), avocado, flax oil, sunbutter, and plain goat milk yogurt.

We are super hypoglycemic so I have to watch that as well as lactose intolerant and fructose/fructan sensitive and must avoid all fruits and high fructose/fructan veggies (even many with equal glucose/fructose ratios, like bananas). We do well on our diet until something goes wrong, like binging (me) or me messing up on her probiotic (I missed a dose and doubled up one day AM and PM -- OMG I will never do that again). That has set off her GI tract and she is not tolerating grains or veggies very well right now (lots of loose, fermented poo --sorry-- and burping).

We've been taking a probiotic called VSL#3 and it seems that this has been a big help, until the gut flora get totally wacked, and then I stop and restart slowly. It is a very slow process to rebuild, so I'm kicking myself for that stupid mistake. Also, I introduced goat yogurt to her just before that double probiotic dose, so I don't know if that is part of the problem too, so have stopped giving it to her.

I guess I am feeling unsure... what will we eat??? Sunbutter is her sole comfort. That will be traumatic to pull. Also, we must have carbs for blood sugar reasons, afraid we won't have enough. I am afraid to re-introduce goat yogurt in case that sets her GI off further. So the only things in her diet that would be allowed on the intro are meat and egg yolk. (Have been avoiding egg whites b/c she reacted before.) Could we modify? Anyone have experience with this?

About gelatin, what brand do you use? Looking for something pure/organic-ish.

FWIW, B12 seems to help us a ton even though our blood levels are fine (???) and also digestive enzymes. I take Metazyme (by NutraNomics) and she takes Digest (by Enzymedica) b/c I can't get her to take mine (takes horrible out of the capsule).

I feel deflated. We were getting better and now she is in that place where she's becoming more and more sensitive. So I'm looking back to our old ways, remembering how I used to make bone broths (not exactly feeling inspired to do this in the heat of the summer!) hmmmmmm


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Subbing.


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## jewellz (Jan 8, 2008)

Is anyone still doing this? I'm on day 5, been interesting. Just wanted to see if there was anyone still doing this.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jewellz* 
Is anyone still doing this? I'm on day 5, been interesting. Just wanted to see if there was anyone still doing this.

Hi Jewellz! I just started as well and found this thread from way back. It's so nice to hear from someone else who is possibly eating more bananas and honey than they thought possible!! How is it going for you? And what was your reason for starting it? Maybe we can even start a new thread for new mamas doing the SCD.

I am actually doing a slightly more flexible version of SCD. I was all set to do it and even buy the yogurt maker (although I have to admit, that felt SO insanely daunting), but I talked on the phone to another MDC member who had done the SCD for her and her daughter a while back and her thoughts were, you don't have to be so insanely strict that you end up not being able to do it. She said that in hindsight, she wished she would've made it a little easier on herself. So for example, I am buying store bought yogurt, but I just made sure that I got the one that is least processed (only has milk in it) and has the least amount of sugar. So that in itself is a huge help. The other thing that I'm doing is not doing that intro period, I am just sort of jumping right in aside from beans. I am going to wait about a month until I do beans. And even then, I think I may do canned beans if I have to.

My thoughts on this (and the veteran MDCers are too) are that there is no reason to be completely, 100% extreme about this. The point is, no sugars, starches/carbs. That is going to be a big shift for my body regardless of if the slight sugar from store bought yogurt gets in there. And I have only been on it three days and I already feel a lot better. It is amazing. I'm so interested to see how it's going for you too.

And the other piece of this is that for me, I have had a mild case of IBS (although that term is such BS), gluten intolerance, disbiosis (bad bacteria overpower the good in my gut) and low digestive enzyme output, but it has not been severe, so perhaps if I had more severe symptoms, I would follow the diet to a T. But even still, if my symptoms were that severe, taking out MOST of the sugar, starches and carbs would totally help. So who knows. When talking to the other MDCer (who is also a homeopath and works in the natural health field), she was also saying that she thought I could probably have things healed in 6 months, which is a lot more palatable than 2 years!! I am just telling myself that I will do this for 3 months, reassess and then go for 3 more if it's really helping. I don't know about you, but at this point, I am willing to do ANYTHING and give up ANY food to feel better long term.

I'd love to hear what kinds of things you're eating! One of my favorite things so far has been slices of cucumber with mustard, parmesan cheese slices, avocado and turkey slices - like little sandwiches. SO good! Oh and of course steak marinaded with the vinegrette in the SCD book. I made the peanut butter cookies, and they were actually really good, but the next morning I felt a little funny, so I'm not sure if it was that, but I am going to hold off for a while. I'm eating salmon, steak or chicken for just about every dinner. I have been malnourished due to my digestive issues and am underweight, so I am looking for a way to add some pounds and some B vitamins. In the mornings, I have a smoothie/milkshake that is surprisingly good - I blend that 100% whole milk European style yogurt with almond milk, apple cider, Knudson's strawberry juice and some coconut oil. I don't know about you, but being that it's Halloween makes it a bit tougher since all this candy is going around. Sometimes I seriously tip my head back and squirt honey in my mouth when I feel like I need a little "treat"! That or have a banana.

Can't wait to hear how it's going for you


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

We are on SCD here too! I think that the yogurt is really easy once you have made it a couple of times. It's one of those things that seems really daunting and overwhelming until you just do it and then you realize you can really do it! At least that was my experience. The reason for fermenting the yogurt for 24 hours is to eat up all the lactose.


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## jewellz (Jan 8, 2008)

I've read your message and will get back to you as soon as I have a rare moment to sit and reply because my youngest, Kylee screams her head off all day because of a dumb mistake I made in not checking my thyroid pill when I had to change to a generic and it contained gluten. Now I'm dealing with a colicky baby ALL DAY. Only happy if I'm holding her or sometimes after I get gripe water in her. But just letting you know I am not ignoring or forgetting to write back to you.


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## jewellz (Jan 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
Hi Jewellz! I just started as well and found this thread from way back. It's so nice to hear from someone else who is possibly eating more bananas and honey than they thought possible!! How is it going for you? And what was your reason for starting it? Maybe we can even start a new thread for new mamas doing the SCD.

So far it's going good, on day 7. I actually went to stage 1 (the pecanbread stages) instead of doing the intro because my bananas weren't ripe yet and forgot to take the chicken out to thaw so started eating cooked apples pieces. Now back at intro, though I'm kinda messing it up. I started because of a leaky gut. We have food allergies, mainly gluten but my 3yr old dd was reacting to dairy in my breastmilk-got over it at 9months, then my 22m old started to react to dairy in my breastmilk at birth and eggs at 7m-dairy reactions are going down but still reacts to eggs pretty bad and my 5m old I took out dairy and eggs out of my diet before she was born as I wanted to have a calm happy baby that wasn't reacting to anything in my breastmilk but then I forgot to check my new thyroid meds and they contained gluten and now she reacting to that. So the next babies, if they are any, I would like to of healed my insides so that I can have calm happy babies again and enjoy the newborn stage instead of dreading it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
I am actually doing a slightly more flexible version of SCD. I was all set to do it and even buy the yogurt maker (although I have to admit, that felt SO insanely daunting), but I talked on the phone to another MDC member who had done the SCD for her and her daughter a while back and her thoughts were, you don't have to be so insanely strict that you end up not being able to do it. She said that in hindsight, she wished she would've made it a little easier on herself. So for example, I am buying store bought yogurt, but I just made sure that I got the one that is least processed (only has milk in it) and has the least amount of sugar. So that in itself is a huge help. The other thing that I'm doing is not doing that intro period, I am just sort of jumping right in aside from beans. I am going to wait about a month until I do beans. And even then, I think I may do canned beans if I have to.

I'm going to stick to the stages but prob do it a little bit faster as I don't think that my symptoms are as severe as most people are on this diet have. I really don't want restart this diet because I need to get pretty advanced in this diet before I end up pregnant again. We can't have dairy so the yogurt was no problem to avoid but I am hoping to eventually try it out.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
And the other piece of this is that for me, I have had a mild case of IBS (although that term is such BS), gluten intolerance, disbiosis (bad bacteria overpower the good in my gut) and low digestive enzyme output, but it has not been severe, so perhaps if I had more severe symptoms, I would follow the diet to a T. But even still, if my symptoms were that severe, taking out MOST of the sugar, starches and carbs would totally help. So who knows. When talking to the other MDCer (who is also a homeopath and works in the natural health field), she was also saying that she thought I could probably have things healed in 6 months, which is a lot more palatable than 2 years!! I am just telling myself that I will do this for 3 months, reassess and then go for 3 more if it's really helping. I don't know about you, but at this point, I am willing to do ANYTHING and give up ANY food to feel better long term.

I agree that the term IBS is bs. On one of the support groups I'm on, a lady instead of starting the diet 100% at the intro, she started taking out the bad stuff one type at a time until she got to the intro, then added stuff back in, so that is an option. I'm hoping that it takes only 6 or so months.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
I'd love to hear what kinds of things you're eating! One of my favorite things so far has been slices of cucumber with mustard, parmesan cheese slices, avocado and turkey slices - like little sandwiches. SO good! Oh and of course steak marinaded with the vinegrette in the SCD book. I made the peanut butter cookies, and they were actually really good, but the next morning I felt a little funny, so I'm not sure if it was that, but I am going to hold off for a while. I'm eating salmon, steak or chicken for just about every dinner. I have been malnourished due to my digestive issues and am underweight, so I am looking for a way to add some pounds and some B vitamins. In the mornings, I have a smoothie/milkshake that is surprisingly good - I blend that 100% whole milk European style yogurt with almond milk, apple cider, Knudson's strawberry juice and some coconut oil. I don't know about you, but being that it's Halloween makes it a bit tougher since all this candy is going around. Sometimes I seriously tip my head back and squirt honey in my mouth when I feel like I need a little "treat"! That or have a banana.

Can't wait to hear how it's going for you









I love the foods you are eating. They sound so good. But since I'm being restrictive, mine are not appetizing. Yesterday I bought a whole salmon at Whole Foods and had them fillet it and broiled a little bit for lunch today. Had pot roast for dinner to night. I have been having applesauce with honey and cinnamon for my sugar withdrawal. Had some bananas and avocados. Jello. Chicken, ground beef, meatballs, hamburger. Most blah. And lots of water or watered down grape juice to keep up breastmilk production. Yup, I have done that with the honey just go and take a spoonful of honey and suck on it. Yum!!

But now I don't know what to do. Accidentally ingested gluten (last time was a month ago) and been reacting to it along with dd3 so I don't know if it's the foods I'm reacting to (apples and carrots are coming out in chunks but poos are getting better and a good brown color instead of yellowy-green diarrhea) or if it because of the gluten reaction still. I would like to stay on the diet. It is a MUST for me and my kiddos sake but how do I know if mine or my five month old's reactions are because of the gluten or the new offending food? So I have been debating with keeping on the diet right now or to postpone it. Just wanted some ideas from MDC mamas on the list.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Jewellz - I only have a quick sec, but wanted to post this in case it helps you. I am on digestive enzymes that are AWESOME. They took all my diarrhea away immediately and they are formulated with special enzymes to help deal with hidden gluten or casein. I take two with every meal (breakfast, lunch and dinner), but not with snacks. At first, I just did one with every meal, for like three days, but then bumped it up when I felt comfortable. I would recommend this for you because when my naturopath told me about these, she specifically said, "You will notice there will be a lot less or no undigested food in your stools." Here is the exact kind I use...

http://www.professionalsupplementcen...milaseGFCF.htm

Personally, I am having a tough couple of days around here. I want to eat "normal" foods. This diet is okay when you can confine yourself to your kitchen and don't have to go anywhere, but god forbid you find yourself out in the world around lunch time. And I thought I'd never say this, but I am sick of meat! And I can't stand eggs, so that leaves me with like cheese and veggies. I am craving pancakes and things of that nature, but all the recipes have eggs in them and they end up tasting like scrambled egg pancakes. Made some yesterday to try and ended up gagging.

Sorry to be so negative. I love the idea of that lady who slowly took out the bad things. I might go back and try that. I keep feeling like, "Do I really need to be THIS restrictive??" On the up side, I have gained 1-2 pounds and have great energy. I know this diet is genius and scientifically it works, but it's just the day to day life of being on it that is really really hard. In order to save myself so that I can keep doing this diet (for the most part), I might integrate beans in sooner rather than later.

Have you (or anyone else) found a recipe for pancakes or bread that isn't eggy? Or a substitute for eggs? Possibly avocados?

More soon...


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## jewellz (Jan 8, 2008)

I too only have a quick time to reply but yes I have been taking enzymes the last four days but I don't know if they are helping.

But just think if it can help it will be so worth it to be restrictive and I think that taking things out one type at a time then adding would be better.

See I love meat because I need the protein so I can't help you there either with eating out because we couldn't eat out anyway because of gluten issues.

Usually when substituting eggs in normal recipes, it can be replaces with applesauce for baked goods or avocados for like spreads.

Hope it's going better.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Ooh, thanks for the tip about applesauce







I think you will for sure notice a difference with the enzymes. It may take a week or so. I hope it does the trick!

Okay, so I hate to break the news, but I am an SCD drop out (but am loving it). The total restrictiveness of the diet was totally getting me down and I was so sick of the choices of food. I was starting to feel like, "If this is how I have to eat, I don't want to exist on this planet!" Personally, I started feeling like I was going to an unnecessary extreme for me. But it's funny, I am still eating 85% SCD but even knowing that I have a little wiggle room is wonderful. And when I say wiggle room, I don't mean eating a ton of crap, but I mean some corn tortilla chips, beans, quinoa, etc. I am being really slow with it and also, I am still really making an effort to limit my sugar and starch intake. For me, that was the big lesson with SCD - about starches and sugars. So rather than go back to gluten-free snacks and breads, if I need a little snack, I will pick up a banana or pear instead. But it also doesn't mean I can't ever have those snacks or breads if I wanted them. Seriously, there is something so mental about this in knowing that I CAN have something should I want it. I still have the smoothies in the morning (yogurt - unsweetened, almond milk, coconut oil, natural juice, fruit and honey) and am eating a fair amount of meat too. I was so excited to have my gluten-free pancakes again (with honey, of course!), but funny thing is that I really only feel like a banana and smoothie in the AM. Even in that short wee, SCD rubbed off on me! Only been off of it for about two days and I feel fine and digestion is okay.

The other thing I realized with SCD is that I didn't want to be so micromanaging about every little thing I eat. I know there are lots of people who HAVE to be, but for me, having to log what I'm eating and always be cooking and thinking about what is SCD-friendly was just too much and really had me thinking about my digestion way more than I wanted to. I am trying to go about my life with these foundations of eating in place and not obsess about what each little morsel of food is doing to me at every second. Basically, I'm trying to suck it up and see how that goes! And it went great today - there was a huge chunk of the day where I wasn't even thinking about my gut and what it was doing! Heaven!!


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## jewellz (Jan 8, 2008)

I have actually postponed continuing the diet because of accidentally glutening myself. So now I won't know if reacting are coming from the offending food or the gluten. So I'll restart it later.


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