# does this count as CIO?



## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

DH has been insisting on putting baby to sleep himself - and NOT on a walk, either! It's killing me. It doesn't sound as bad as it used to (the crying; at least he stops to breathe) but it still lasts for an hour. I was going to divorce him over his insistence at first, but baby doesn't seem too damaged... They've been doing it on-and-off several times a week for about two weeks.

Although I can't relax through it (I cried the first couple of times, and DH had to forcible remove baby from my arms, and I threatened to call 911!!), I try to reason with myself that we're all better for it in the long run (DH gets to "bond" with baby and baby gets "comforted in other ways" (DH's words).

Any experience? words of wisdom?? How can I ease the situation? I've recommended that they only do this in the morning when babe is nursed and fresh and/or while on walks and/or after a hot shower and/or with naked skin contact. But DH still insists on doing it before nurse (sometimes).

Also, I feel like I am betraying baby. He knows I'm in the other room... I end up feeling like the bad guy.

thanks for your advice.


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

that seems really unfair to you and your baby.
no way in hell would i let my anybody forcibly take my baby. EVER. certainly not just so he can hold the baby while he cries himself to sleep, and i dont think any of you are better for it. i would ahve a serious talk with your dh if i was in your shoes.

eta- how old is your baby? not that it makes much of a difference, but it sounds like a newborn.


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## swebster (Dec 7, 2004)

your husband is being a bully. you don't need us to tell you what to do, your mama instincts are intact, but if you don't stand up for yourself and your baby it's going to be a long sad haul till your dc is out of the house an off to college.

forcibly removing a baby from it's mothers arms is very very scary behavior and should be taken seriously.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Stand up for your baby and be the mama. The pp is right. Your husband is a bully. Protect your baby.

-Angela


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

I think everyone in the family should agree on a bedtime plan, and if your husband is tearing the baby from you, that's not cool, unless there's some backstory here we're not getting (like if you really need more time to yourself that you're refusing to take, etc.)

But in general, no, I don't think that when a baby is being comforted, it is being subjected to CIO. (Heck, my first son cried continuously for the first year of his life no matter what we did- that didn't make us evil parents.) I don't know exactly what your husband is doing, but assuming he's fully there for your baby, I don't think it's CIO just because the baby isn't getting exactly what it wants.


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## sparkprincess (Sep 10, 2004)

There's just something not right here. I definitely wouldn't stand for that behavior. Not cool, IMHO.


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## InochiZo (Aug 17, 2004)

Now I want to cry. No baby should have to cry for an hour to go to sleep. My DH put DS to sleep but DS never ever cried for an hour.


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

That just sounds horrible for your baby. If you are there to help him fall asleep there is no reason for him to have to cry


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Yes, that sounds like "crying it out" to me.

Your DH sounds abusive to me. Check out this website and see if anything else in there applies to your marriage. http://www.ndvh.org/


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Thanks, all, for the reality check. Baby is about seven and one-half months old. And I am a SAHM who is happy to arrange my life around babe and his needs.

Last night after I wrote that post, DH blew up and was screaming about how he had no control over the parenting of our baby and that he wanted to be part of the process (this has been an ongoing theme; we were talking about how he wants the baby to start eating more solids and I was voicing my concern that I'd seen him forcing the food into baby's mouth). He got really physically rough with me when I pointed out that he was screaming and that I didn't have to try to converse with a screamer. So the bully and abuse comments really hit home.

I think that his dad was notably absent from his childhood (although he was physically there) and that his mom is really controlling (without giving explanations for why she's doing things or why things must be done a certain way - I've witnessed this firsthand) and yet was a paradoxically absent mother (left his care to his older siblings; didn't BF). So he wants to "be involved" READ: "do what moms do" (because in his family, everyone but mom did the mothering).

After that, I tried to disapper into bed with baby. He read my emails and I know he read the comments and my posting (I had suscribed to the thread; I heard him scoffing at the computer). We will get counseling. I feel understandably numb. It is a weird and sad juxtaposition to be having the time of my life with my first baby and to be having this marriage hellishness; such happy thoughts for the future with babe and such unhappy thoughts about future struggles with H.

I am still wondering if this is normal DH behavior: putting baby to sleep at night with or without crying. With the abuse and controlling behavior aside (as though one can set it aside!), I guess I tried to cope by thinking that this could this be a useful tactic for transitioning to toddler years? H was arguing that it would be good for when we have a babysitter (which I'm not into, either). I've read that some dads start doing night-time soothing when the toddler years hit...it just doesn't feel right now. This is total codependent behavior of me: sometimes I can't help wondering if I'm making too big a deal of the whole thing.

One pp suggested establishing a bedtime routine. I've tried to involve H in this so that he'd get his fill of baby before the nurse-to-sleep that me and babe love, but H still goes for the gold. I tried expressing to a bottle so that H could have the experience but babe has refused it on their routine weekend outings. Should we try again?

Anyway, *sorry* to dump such negativity and *thanks* for the comments.


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## Isis (Aug 2, 2004)

Please do NOT apologize for coming here for help. That's what we're here for. I think you're an amazing woman and most of all, MOM! I'm so happy babe has you. I hope counseling works for you guys. It is great that he's willing to go!


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## midwestmeg (Jul 10, 2005)

I'm glad to see you posted again! I read the thread and then thought a lot about it. It sounds like there are some things for you and DH to work through; you both deserve positive help and support.

You are wondering about DH help with parenting, so I'll share my experiences.... My dh enjoys being involved and always has been. I worked when dd was little, so dh would take her while I was gone in the evenings. When she reached your dc's age, I had changed my schedule so dd could be with me. It was just easier and my dd only had a mild interest in food, so we didn't force it.

This is what dh helped me with when my baby was 7 mo or so: 1) changing diapers! we cloth, and I LOVE it when he would come home and I could say 'please change her'. They have a whole ritual and song he sings to her. He really talks to her while he does it and the whole process takes him 5 minutes or so. 2) He would put her in her bjorn (he didn't care for the sling) and 'work' with her (in the house and in the shop/garage). She liked being held and being able to see. 3) He cuddled her/played with her while I cooked (always a big help). 4) DH would get her at night when she cried and bring her to me.

I think it's important to realize that your babe is still too young to just be crying because she just 'wants' something. Your baby is just telling you that she has a need, and crying is her form of communication right now. I don't think there is any point in keeping her from the breast. As one of my friends says 'nursing is about more than just breastmilk'. Your baby is learning trust and you AND dh can give it to her by responding to her cries. When a baby cries, she does need her mother. That's legitimate. Now that my dd is older (15 mo) eating solids, running and exploring, she can do more with her dad.

At your babe's age, I usually did the bedtime routine so dd could nurse and fall asleep with a full tummy. Later, your dh will be able to help you more with bedtime.

As you and dh get some help, dh can learn some new parenting techniques that will make parenting more enjoyable for BOTH of you. I would guess that then dh won't feel so frustrated, or like he has to take the baby from you. You have lots of years with your dc, and your dh will get to do plenty!!

Please keep writing.... meg


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## LeosMama (Sep 6, 2005)

Quote:

I am still wondering if this is normal DH behavior: putting baby to sleep at night with or without crying. With the abuse and controlling behavior aside (as though one can set it aside!), I guess I tried to cope by thinking that this could this be a useful tactic for transitioning to toddler years? H was arguing that it would be good for when we have a babysitter (which I'm not into, either). I've read that some dads start doing night-time soothing when the toddler years hit...it just doesn't feel right now. This is total codependent behavior of me: sometimes I can't help wondering if I'm making too big a deal of the whole thing.
I have a very involved husband. In fact, he is a SAHD and has been since the babe was 10 mos old. He was responsible for a lot of nighttime parenting from very early on (we had nursing problems so DH gave EBM bottles). But let's just for a moment pretend that I had a smooth nursing relationship from the get go...

When I was the SAHM, DH would do whatever seemed best for the baby and always let me (the primary caregiver) be the judge of that. Not because he has no instincts or is not a nurturer, but because I'm the mama and I have the breasts and I am the primary caregiver. The latter is the most important part. Babies and the primary caregiver form an intricate relationship. You don't always consciously comprehend it, but you do understand it. It is a dance that neither partner leads in, neither partner can choose, but both partners can move smoothly in. To have someone else, even the very involved, nurturing father come in and tell either partner (babe or mama) that they need to be dancing differently is very disruptive and damaging.

When my dh took over the primary caregiver role, he did it gently and asking me how we did things so as to minimize disruption. Eventually, he and ds found their groove and have their own dance. When I am home, I often have to ask how to do things, what the child needs, etc. Because I am not the primary caregiver. If dh makes a decision about the boy, I try really hard not to undermine and to follow his advice as he currently knows the child better.

A baby needs his mama. A baby needs the breast. He needs her voice and smell. There's nothing wrong with that. You don't need to transition to the toddler years. The dance will move and groove and you will be there mothering (fathering) the way that works for you. No book or emotional baggage can choose the right path, only loving intuition and gentle dancing can get you there.

Forcing the baby to be apart from you when he doesn't want to be helps no one. It creates separation anxiety (which is at it's height from 6-10 mos of age for most babies) and can lead to all kinds of problems: sleep disorders, clinginess, social problems. I wish your dh could see that by forcibly separating his son from mama, he is recreating his childhood - a babe without a mama. He is giving his son the same sadness and loneliness he knew.

I wish he would stop trying to be the baby's mama and instead be his papa. My dh slept with our son from the day he was born. DS slept cuddled up against papa's chest for half the night, and the other half against mine (nursing, in the perfect world). This was bonding time. But if for some reason the babe wouldn't settle with papa and needed mama, he would never have forced it but would instead hand the baby to me. Not without trying at first, of course, it's not like he'd just hand him over at the first squeak, but he wouldn't keep a baby from his mama. I think men need to trust their instincts enough to know that they can comfort a baby, but that babies really do need mama, too.

Oh, I feel like I'm wandering all over. I hope you're getting what I'm trying to say.

And taking him away before nursing...that's really not a good idea. How can the babe eat if you don't nurse him? A baby will decide for itself when it needs to eat and what it needs to eat. If you make him eat, that will only cause eating problems later. Many babies go until 12-14 mos on only breastmilk. This is normal, nothing for concern, and definitely should not be hampered or disrupted. Forced or coerced feeding is detrimental, it needs to stop.

Now that I've told you how to raise your child...


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## kalirush (Jun 14, 2005)

My husband is very involved with our girl. Alot of the time, she prefers to be with him. I think, in some ways, he has better baby skills. Probably because he doesn't have breasts, and has to compensate in other ways. He reads to her, changes her, takes her for walks. She's 3 months, but still loves to sit in the rocking chair and have him read to her.

He doesn't usually put her down for bed alone, though. We tried it once and it was so hard on him- he couldn't just lie with her and cuddle and nurse to sleep with the bottle. He did okay, but it was hard. I think we'll try again after she's weaned or partly weaned, but for now, she needs mama's breasts. He's still very involved in night time, though- he cuddles her while I get ready for bed, and will often lie down with us while she falls asleep. And if she's done nursing and is still fussing, then (nights he doesn't work) he'll stay up with her and walk or cuddle her down while I sleep.

So, I think it's very healthy and normal for a father to be involved in this way. But being angry or abusive or trying to minimize the mother's involvement is not healthy.

Julia


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## TakeItEasyMama (Sep 16, 2005)

Hey, a suggestion I have is that you look in to the dr sears.com arena. Maybe if you have some suggestions and guides from a professional about putting baby to sleep, discipline, fathering, etc it would help. Sometimes it helps to see info in print.

My baby nursed until he was 12 months old with hardly any food at all. Nursing always solved all of his problems. My husband helped by feeding me whenever he was around. Now my DS is almost three. Can't get enough of Dad, they have a great relationship. Bonding with daddy can come when Mom let's it and when the time is right. Where does your baby sleep? Mine sleeps with us and this really helped Daddy get to know him.

The best-although might sound crazy-suggestion I can make, though, is--try to be thankful. Start by thanking him for wanting to help. Thank God for a husband willing to try so hard. Thank God for a husband who supports you -by not abandoning you to everything and supporting you being at home. AND pray for the right person to come into his life that will help him learn other ways. You can't do it alone and probably not at all. Some men have such a hard time listening to their wives-especially ones with bad examples from childhood. Praying for husbands ALWAYS helps. Abuse can change.

Best or worst of all, find a way to feed that baby before Daddy starts trying his best to put her to sleep. What baby can sleep on an empty stomach? Shoot, I'd even sneak off to the bathroom with it if I had too...ease their pain and yours.

Peace be yours sister. It's good that your seeking help.


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## Qestia (Sep 26, 2005)

Well, the fact that your DH got physical with you when you told him you weren't going to talk to a screamer is deeply, deeply, disturbing to me and I think you should get professional help now, while you still can.

But since you asked--my DH has been doing the bedtime ritual with DS, now 6 mos, from about 3 mos. We have a bedtime routine, I give him a bath, DH reads him a story, gives him a bottle (nursing troubles--wish I'd found mothering.com sooner!) and puts him to bed. There is no crying. On the occassions when DS has been truly cranky and crying (he's not much of a cryer in general) DH is often better at comforting him that I am--I get too tense.

I think a lot of moms can run into trouble when they think their way is the only way to care for the baby--maybe their DH doesn't do the exact things they do but his way is not harmful, you know? I think there's more than one right way to do a lot of things and moms can take on too much by thinking their DH doesn't do it right. I do not, however, think this is your situation. I think your DH has serious anger management issues and his forcing food on your DC may be part of this as well. Please get help.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Your husband is abusive. Anytime he "gets physical" that is NOT OKAY. Understand that.

That said, I have a WONDERFUL dh who is VERY involved in parenting. My dd ADORES her daddy. They would move heaven and earth for eachother. BUT, when she needs mama, she needs mama. She knows that daddy loves her enough that if she's with him and asks for mama, she gets mama. She can trust him. He has always respected her needs and wants and in return she thinks he hung the moon. When he comes home at night she runs for the door. She KNOWS her daddy loves her. But when it comes time to go to sleep, she usually prefers her mama and he respects that.

Honestly I think you need to get out until your husband gets some help. Physical violence is NEVER okay. He needs to admit that and agree to never allow violence in the house.

-Angela


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

My husband is VERY involved, but he leaves the 'big' stuff to me. Mama is for feeding and snuggles and stuff. Daddy is for playing (I play too, but more Peek-A-Boo, story quiet play. I leave the wrestling, rolling on the floor being an ape play to Daddy) and bath time.

Getting physical or yelling is NOT okay, it is abuse. He needs to recognize his anger and figure out where it is coming from. Good luck Mama! Don't feel guilty!

Right now you need to take charge of the baby duties until DH can put his past in the past and be a better (less forceful, less angry) father. Good luck mama!


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## rachelmarie (Mar 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna*









Your husband is abusive. Anytime he "gets physical" that is NOT OKAY. Understand that...... Honestly I think you need to get out until your husband gets some help. Physical violence is NEVER okay. He needs to admit that and agree to never allow violence in the house.

-Angela

I absolutely agree with this. I hope that things work out with you and your dh, but right now you need to protect yourself and your baby.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I second what I said earlier- from your first post I suspected abuse, from your second post I'm quite certain of it.

I suggest you go into counseling WITHOUT him- joint counseling with abusers tends to make things worse, not better. It just gives them "more ammunition" to use with you, plus you risk angering him which can be dangerous.

Call the domestic abuse hotline http://www.ndvh.org/ 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) Get resources near you- counseling with somebody trained in abuse issues, find out what your legal options are. You need to learn what you need to do to protect yourself and your baby.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

hi there. i'm sorry you are going through such a rough time. definitely call the abuse hotline and get help and information.

i just wanted to write because my husband did the same thing with my twins (i think they were 8 months then) without my permission. they were taking forever to go to sleep; i got frustrated and asked for his help; he took it upon himself to lie down with them which was fine for a moment (they were wanting to play) but they started crying. i went in and he very meanly told me to go away. he wanted to be involved in their care--no, he wanted to be able to soothe them the way i could. and i want that for them and for him, but it hasn't happened yet. and letting them cry it out in his arms was the wrong way to go about it. i was so freaking upset i can't tell you. but i let him do it. it just reinforced for me that cry it out is not the right thing for these babies.

anyway, his heart was in the right place, so i agree with the pp who said to thank him for wanting to be involved. and i also agree that you need to protect yourself and your baby. but i don't think your situation is hopeless. having a baby affects a lot of things. add sleeplessness to that and, well, it was a disaster for my husband. he wouldn't never hurt a baby, but when they were colicky, we needed a code word that would mean that he needed to go away because i didn't feel it was safe for him to be handling the girls. i was afraid he would throw one of them instead of a bottle (they had bottles for awhile). and throwing a bottle is within my definition of "getting physical," so i was scared. but maybe talking when you're both calm will help. it did help us. we were lucky, too; we had a year of therapy before the twins came. i'm not sure we would have survived without it.

i guess i'm just saying that if you are safe, just know that you all are going through some major changes, and the more open communication there is, the better it will be for your entire family.









mehera


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

d


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Djwratha-

Please let us know you're okay.









-Angela


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Thanks. I am okay. I am so glad to be able to talk about this! Thanks, ladies.

Sending love out,
Deb


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Is it you or your not so dear husband?


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

It is me. Thanks.

Wow, this is hard. I am so sad. DH is saying that just because I feel so strongly about it not happening (CIO with dad) is reason enough to do it, because he's suspicious that I am going to mess baby up with my parenting philosophy. I am thinking of leaving for my parents' until we can at least speak to each other calmly...


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## LeosMama (Sep 6, 2005)

This doesn't make sense. Your feeling strongly about it indicates that you are an attached mama. You can't spoil a baby, but you can traumatize him.

I think that it might be a good idea for you to take a break from dh. You should also consider changing your password here and perhaps your user name so you can keep your time here private and so that we know that when you write, it is really you and you are safe. Sorry to be paranoid.


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Djwratha*
It is me. Thanks.

Wow, this is hard. I am so sad. DH is saying that just because I feel so strongly about it not happening (CIO with dad) is reason enough to do it, because he's suspicious that I am going to mess baby up with my parenting philosophy. I am thinking of leaving for my parents' until we can at least speak to each other calmly...

To me, that kind of reasoning just doesnt make sense.
There are many many ways to mess up a child, but caring for and nurturing is not one of them. Responding to a baby's cries is what we are supposed to do.

Is there not any other time where your husband can get cuddle and snuggle time? Why must it be right before bed and with out a "snack"? I dont understand whats his point is.

I am glad you wrote again, I fleetingly thought he would become enraged my my post, and G*d knows, I dont want tat to happen!


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Djwratha*
I am thinking of leaving for my parents' until we can at least speak to each other calmly...


i think thats a great idea.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Good advice. Password is now changed.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Glad you're okay. Be sure to log out when you get off the computer too. I think going to your parents' is a great idea. It is NEVER okay to be violent or physical. And you can NOT spoil a baby. They NEED constant attention and contact, especially from mom.

To her dh if you're still reading- I'm sure you love your wife and child- please listen to what is being said here. It is not a caring father who steals a crying child from his mother.

-Angela


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## janebug (May 25, 2005)

Mama, be safe. and follow your heart. my dh comforted my baby when he was very little and ds cried alot at first, it was so weird to watch. he would just hold him and kinda act like he didn't know what to do with him and ds would bawl, but we finally kinda worked things out, it is a tough balance...dh is now very protective and gets after me if i let ds cry while i "have to do something". but that was when ds was very little and it sounds like something else may be going on. you stand your ground and don't let anybody bully you or force you or make you go against your instincts. like the other pp have said, there is plenty of time for daddy time. if he feels like he is not a part of parenting, he ought to be able to talk with you about and you both come to something that works for both. i was a little worried too when i read that he wants to do it beofre your babe nurses. going to your parents sounds like a good idea.
Be strong mama. we are here for you and thinking about you.
Sending you strength and love.


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## djhusband (Dec 1, 2005)

This is a message I wrote last night. My wife erased it this morning. I will leave this message and unsubscribe from this list confident you will continue to support djwrath in during this difficult time.

Dear Mother's -

I'm sorry to intrude on this very female forum. But I feel I must
give my side of the story to the thread which my wife initiated. I
also hope to communicate with my wife through a venue and voice she
seems to appreciate and take more seriously then mine. Maybe more
information then you bargained for by signing up on this list. At any
rate, yes my wife and I are going through some very hard times. Our
dear son has brought a lot of our issues to the surface. I hope we
can resolve them and move forward. Actually, seeing my wife's posts
in this discussion are very disturbing to me. I feel like she has
violated my trust and we've taken a big step backward. I don't mind
that she's talked about our personal lives with people we don't know.
I want her to be able to discuss her life, thoughts and feelings with
friends or whatever community she wants. I do mind, however, that she
hasn't been honest with her post or her friends about our situation.
Of course that makes me wonder how honest she's being with herself.

First of all, my dear wife is correct in saying that I want to put my
son to sleep at night. I have told her I want to do this two nights a
week. It all started a couple months ago when my wife had an
engagement one evening and it was up to me to put our baby to sleep.
In short, it was a horrible experience, he cried louder and longer
than I have ever heard him cry - 45 min to an hour. It hit me that I
should be able to put our son to sleep without so much crying,
especially since my wife agreed to help with this event once a month.
So, I decided I wanted to learn to comfort my son and put him to
sleep. I also wanted him to learn to fall asleep in different ways so
when my wife and I are at someone else's home or in a different
situation that he'll still be able to fall asleep without too much
drama. I have put him to sleep many many times at night on walks and then taken him and put him in bed. I would like to be able to do this in his bedroom.

I must admit that last night I did physically restrain my wife and I
very much regret doing that. I did it because there are three issues
I want to talk about with her (one of them being me putting the baby
to sleep) and I wanted to talk about it. I have actually tried to
talk with her about these issues numerous times and every time we
talk about them the conversation quickly digresses into an arguement
or my wife will shut down and walk away. I'd been trying to talk
about these issues for a couple of months and we never were getting
anywhere. I was starting to think that it was some kind of conscious
or subconscious ploy - the longer she avoided talking about these
issues the longer she could maintain the status quo. At any rate,
last night I was determined to have this conversation. Things started
out well but escalated and my wife got up to walk away. I sat her
back down. She started slaping me. I held her and told her I needed
to talk about this. She then proceeded to bite, scratch and slap me
and I have the war wounds to prove it. I eventually pinned her down
for a moment and told her I needed to talk about these issues. I then
let her go. I know - ugly stuff. I was out of line. After my wife
went to bed I wrote her a letter apologizing for restraining her and
telling her I loved her. I told her I would never physically restrain
her again. I also told her I needed her to comply with my three
requests.

This evening when I got home from work I asked if she'd read the
letter I wrote last night. She said she had and that she had a
problem with me putting baby to sleep two nights a week. We started
discussing it in a reletively calm way. She asked if I'd read these
posting in this discussion group and I told I had not. She was sure I
had read this thread for some reason. Of course my curiosity got the
best of me and I looked up this discussion. Things were going
reletively well with our talk until I said something I thought was a
legitimate concern. She stormed out of the room yet again.

I'll quickly throw out the three requests I had for my wife that I
wanted to discuss last night and that I wrote in the letter.

1. Is that I put our son to sleep two nights a week.
2. That we attempt to spoon feed our baby before breast feeding at
least once a day ( I've never force fed our son. Once I moved his
hand so I could put the spoon in his mouth. My wife said I was force
feeding him - I couldn't believe that my wife accused me of that.
Also, he is trying to eat and drink most anything we have in front of
us. Nevertheless, I'm in no way shape or form wanting my wife to
quite breast feeding.).
3. That we discuss having our baby sleep in a crib outside of our
bedroom before he is a strong walker and after he has started eating
non-breast food more regularly (he currently sleeps in our bed).

Anyway, to set the record straight, one night my wife gave me her
word she would let me put our baby to sleep. I gave her our son to
breast feed him before putting him to sleep. After a quick feeding
(he had breast fed less than an hour before) my wife refused to give
him to me. My wife is a wonderful wonderful person but not the most
trustworthy person I know. Like all of us she has her own issues. At
any rate, her refusal to hand him over after agreeing to do so
shatterd my illusions of teamwork. I did take our baby out of my
wife's arms that night but it was not at all violent, forceful nor
abusive. Needless to say my wife had previously taken our boy from my
arms in a similar fashion at least twice.

I also want to clarify that I have never wanted to put our baby down
for the night without a breast feeding first. Sometimes when I want
to carry him on a walk or hold him my wife refuses because she wants
to breast feed him first. The thing is she often say's this 15
minutes after our son finished breast feeding. She'll say he was
distracted that's why he didn't eat 15 minutes ago. I can agree with
that but she repetedly will use this scenario. My friends sometimes
joke around with me asking if my wife is letting me hold the baby
yet. I guess I'm a little worried that the way my wife is connecting
to our dear son is problematic and possibly a little unhealthy. Some
of you might be familiar with Alice ******'s "Drama of the Gifted
Child". If not I highly recommend it. In some way's I feel this book
helped me understand my wife's relationship with her mother and makes
me worry a little about her relationship with our boy. Don't get me
wrong, she has been a wonderful mother. I just see lot's of warning
signals and it makes me worry. Also, my wife had some things to say
about my parents. A legitimate perspective but I disagree with her
interpretation.

My wife mentioned that I -h- feel like I have no say in the parenting
process. This is true. Trying to work out a compromise on these three
issues is the first time I've asserted my input. Otherwise it seems
like my wife would rather I check out and allow her to do the
parnting thing by herself. To me it seems like her definition of
teamwork is that I agree to doing everything the way she wants. I
actually think she wants to be a single parent so she wouldn't have
to compromise at all on parenting quetions. I have to tell ya mama
bears - papa bears have instincts too and we will assert what
important for our kids when we are backed into a corner. The one time
we talked about splitting up for a while the only reason she
mentioned for not doing it was because of what our families would
think. You know, I can think of dozens of reasons not to get a
divorce that are more important than what my family would think. I'm
beginning to wonder if I could do more as a functional parent if my
wife and I split up and we got joint custody. At least on weekends
and holidays I could be the kind of father that I think is healthy
for our son's development. Right now things don't seem healthy for
anyone. I'm not giving up on our marriage. We have a lot of good.
Unfortunately, it's been hard to see it lately.

In closing, it's true that when I first put baby to sleep he cried
off and on for 30 - 45 minutes and I know this was hard on my wife.
But the next time it was 20 minutes or less and sometimes now
(although I haven't done it for a while) he doesn't cry at all. I'm
convinced that if we get into a routine of twice a week he won't cry
at all and he'll be more comfortable falling asleep in all kinds of
situations.

Sorry for the long post but I needed to vent after reading what my
wife had wrote and some of your responses. I appreciate many of your
thoughts. Feel free to respond with other thoughts and/or advice
(I'll ask my wife to show me). I think I know what most of you want
to say - "boy, you guys really need therapy." I know! It's crazy
isn't it? I never thought I'd be in such a disfunctional situation. I
love my dear wife and I really want to work on it. Reading her
version of our story to you all (as well as a note to her friends)
makes me wonder if this marriage is worth it. I think it is but I
can't beleive how hard it can be.

Yes, we need therapy. Unfortunately we've been having a hard time
finding a therapist. My wife has been fighting the idea because she
doesn't want to leave our baby for two hours. She also refused to do
any individual therapy. Which reminds me - if anyone knows a good
marriage counselor in LA we'd be interested in looking into his/her
qualifications.

Thanks for your time.

Sincerely, Dj's DH


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

Quote:

1. Is that I put our son to sleep two nights a week.
There is nothing wrong with that as long as its not a CIO situation, however that doesnt appear to be the case currently.

Quote:

2. That we attempt to spoon feed our baby before breast feeding at
least once a day ( I've never force fed our son. Once I moved his
hand so I could put the spoon in his mouth. My wife said I was force
feeding him - I couldn't believe that my wife accused me of that.
Also, he is trying to eat and drink most anything we have in front of
us. Nevertheless, I'm in no way shape or form wanting my wife to
quite breast feeding.).
Breast should always come before solids.... giving solids first will only encourage weaning. Breast is also a perfectly complete food by itself until a year of age.

Quote:

3. That we discuss having our baby sleep in a crib outside of our
bedroom before he is a strong walker and after he has started eating
non-breast food more regularly (he currently sleeps in our bed).
Can't help you there either as we cosleep with all our kids.









((( DJ )))


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## InochiZo (Aug 17, 2004)

DJ's DH,
I think a lot of your ideas seem very reasonable on the surface. However, they are centered around our society's ideals with increasing indepence in babyhood. Baby's are not supposed to be independent. They learn it slowly and gently in their own way. Each child is an individual. I think you need to further explore these feelings. Children will be individuals and want to make discisions in due time. I think there are also some serious control issues between you and DJ that you guys should work on.
As far as sleep goes. I think that at 7 months it is ok for baby to go sleep whatever way is the most gentle and easy. Part of my reasoning for this is that I have a child who has in the past had a difficult time sleeping. If he would sleep without crying to breastfeeding, why not. I wish my DS fell asleep so easily. But at 20 mo he can now laydown and cuddle with either DH or me. This forum is a lot about following the child's lead whenever safe and appropriate.
I don't think that is unreasonable when mamas and papas don't want to leave their little ones with other caregivers. I still don't have anyother caregivers put him to sleep because it probably wouldn't work. I know it seems like a ways off but I know my DS and your DS will become more independent.

Good Luck to you Both.
I hope you can workout your parenting differences.


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Dj's DH,
I appreciate your honesty and sharing your feelings with us.

I agree with you, papas have instinct, and it should be respected and considered.

I wish there was a way where you could do the bedtime routine *every* night as a way to reconnect with your child at the end of the day. Maybe you could tweak it so you can do this. My husband has always put our kids to sleep...after bath and stories, and when they were small and nursing i would nurse, he would walk then place them to sleep (where they would start out in their crib then after the first waking come into bed with us and would stay).

I agree with the PP who mentioned th breast should come first. Unless you *do* want to wean. Because if they are hungry hungry, they will eat the solids, then *snack* on the breast, instead of the other way around. In fact, whenever I was having a hard time with the never ending demands of nursing, this is what I did...offered solids first, they would stay full, and not nurse as much.

You know, my husband and I tag teamed for many years, so I hear what you are saying about finding your own way with your child.

And you are right about another thing, nothing brings unresolved issues to the surface than parenting!

Good luck to both of you.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

After reading the post from djhusband, I'm even more concerned for DJ's safety. This sounds SO MUCH like the way my abusive H used to talk to me- trying to put a new spin on things, not taking any responsibility for his own actions and trying to blame somebody else for it all, and especially the way he said "I'm sorry and I'll never do it again but you have to do these 3 things first."

Quote:


Originally Posted by *djhusband*
Things started out well but escalated and my wife got up to walk away. *I sat her back down.* She started slaping me. I held her and told her I needed
to talk about this. She then proceeded to bite, scratch and slap me
and I have the war wounds to prove it. I eventually pinned her down
for a moment and told her I needed to talk about these issues. I then
let her go. I know - ugly stuff. I was out of line.

The physical abuse started where I bolded it- him sitting her back down. The biting, scratching, and slapping was done in self defense.


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## Kira's mom (Nov 30, 2004)

When dd was born we too had a hard time. We'd only been married three weeks when i conceived.Alot of it came down to The mommy is the mommy! Nobody can play the role of mommy but mommy.Once my dh realised this it became alot easier. in a way i'd have like dh to learn to put dd to bed because 2.8 years later i am still nursing her to sleep every night! As far as the family bed she still sleeps with us and we love it. Anyways dh and dd have an incredible relationship.As she got a little older there was alot more daddy time.We each have our own so called roles. He's very helpful and very into AP.I'm kind of going all over, butI have to agree with most of the pp and say we do not dictate when our dc will eat solids. They do.A baby will be fine on only bm for at least the first year.Lastly I hope that you are both after what is best for the baby and put the power struggle aside. Let mama be the mama.There will come time when only daddy will do.At night dd takes a bath with daddy and they read books or we all read books and then i take over to put her to sleep.Good luck.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *djhusband*
1. Is that I put our son to sleep two nights a week.
2. That we attempt to spoon feed our baby before breast feeding at
least once a day ( I've never force fed our son. Once I moved his
hand so I could put the spoon in his mouth. My wife said I was force
feeding him - I couldn't believe that my wife accused me of that.
Also, he is trying to eat and drink most anything we have in front of
us. Nevertheless, I'm in no way shape or form wanting my wife to
quite breast feeding.).
3. That we discuss having our baby sleep in a crib outside of our
bedroom before he is a strong walker and after he has started eating
non-breast food more regularly (he currently sleeps in our bed).


Thank you for coming back to share your side. I stand by my feelings that this is an abusive situation and that she should leave with the baby for awhile. Addressing your points:

1. IMO this is not a reasonable DEMAND. You can try. Some babies take to it. Yours clearly doesn't. I still am the one that puts my dd to bed most of the time. My dh is a wonderful and involved daddy and is respectful of his daughter's needs.

2. Breastmilk should be the primary food for at LEAST the first 12 months. Personally I don't believe that babies should be spoon fed more than a taste here and there. Not meals. When they are ready for solids they will eat them by themselves. You should absolutely NOT feed solids before breastmilk at this age.

3. Babies belong in bed with mama. It's simple nature. Mammals sleep with their offspring. Babies should nurse for at LEAST two years and in general the best place for them to sleep during that time is in bed with mama.

to djhusband- please think on these things. I think you have good intentions but a very skewed view of reality. If you would like to chat with a VERY involved husband and daddy feel free to pm me and I will give you contact information for my husband.

take care,

-Angela


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

He-said, She-said! This is weird. Our versions are different, both of the crying and the abuse episode. I hope DH will be back to read posts! Thanks for your gentle ideas and explanations, posters.

DH: It is helpful to communicate without raised voices...and for me to hear you, DH. I learned a lot reading your post. Maybe we should start PMing each other!









To clarify for people who are seeking info (if this "dirty laundry" could be of use to someone else, I would be happy): Although this is not necessarily the case with others, it is simply not true that our baby has gone to sleep with dad without crying (since he was about 4 weeks old) -unless dad is on a walk with babe. And the first time the crying at home was one hour and 20 minutes! This experience is BURNED in my memory. The shortest time was over 20 minutes...

I did regularly ask DH to try to put baby down for naps while in the house (and not just while on a walk) from the first months (for one, because baby was getting so used to going to sleep on walks that he was asking ME to take long walks so that he could go to sleep and I was sometimes too tired! LOL!) This didn't happen because DH wanted to find his own way... So if this is any help to info seekers, maybe it is good to start 'em younger with DH if the babe is into it!?

I did have a commitment to be gone one night a month, and was gone for two bedtimes (but I raced home to try to be there in time) when babe was 4 and 5 months old (I have quit the last three times because of the stress on babe). It is helpful for me to realize that this experience with babe is what kicked the whole desire into gear for DH to put baby to sleep regularly...I didn't understand where it was coming from before now (but it DOES also seem to be coming from more than this). It is so understandable.

Thanks, ladies, for the info and the support. It has really helped me through. I can't tell you how it helps to hear from people who are living sanely and who have made it through hard times.


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

You've both gotten a lot of good advice from the other posters; I just wanted to add that when DS was an infant, my DH and I (like many others, I am sure) had a really hard time sorting out our roles and figuring out what he could do to bond with DS, since I was the primary caregiver and I was nursing - and therefore did most of the nighttime parenting (and who would've guessed we would have been arguing about who "got" to nighttime parent?!?







)and most of the feeding. He really pushed for early weaning, formula supplementation, CIO.

Now, over a year later, I can see that he only wanted to find a way to bond with our son, and thought that feeding and helping with bedtime were the keys; at the time, I didn't know what to think. I thought maybe he was jealous of the relationship I had with DS, or that he wanted to control or relationship, or that he couldn't handle the fact that I was undeniably more knowledgable about caring for our child than he was.

I guess I'm just telling you this so you know you aren't alone in struggling with these rolls as parents. Over time, we were able to find other things that DH could do with DS that allowed them to bond. DH took over bathtime, and immediately started taking DS in the shower with him. It took a little adjustment time for them; DS was scared the first couple times, but then started to love shower time with daddy. DH also took over storytime before bed, and they have their own favorite books that they read, and DH has his own way of reading them. Now sometimes DS will have me start a book, and then daddy comes in the room, and he decides that daddy would do a better job.









As a mom, I think you have to find areas where you can step back and let daddy try his own way, even if it isn't your way , and even if you "know" your way is better.







But I don't think that nursing or putting down to bed (as an infant - putting a toddler down is a whole different story







) are the places dad should be stepping in, IMHO. There are so many other places where you, as the dad can really take part in your child's life. As a dad, you need to step back and let your wife do the parts that she is biologically better equipped to do.









BTW, I have read "Drama of a Gifted Child" more times than I can count since the birth of DC. I think there is a lot of wisdom in the book, but also feel that in typical Freudian fashion, it puts too much emphasis on what the mother does to screw up her children. And it isn't really intended as a tool for measuring another's skill as a parent; it is meant to help you as an individual to look inside of yourself and see where you are perpetuating negative cycles that your parents brought you into with the next generation.

Anyway, I wish you both luck, and hope that you are able to find a good counselling situation for yourselves, and that you are both able to find your "groove" as you learn to co-parent your DC.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:

Although this is not necessarily the case with others, it is simply not true that our baby has gone to sleep with dad without crying (since he was about 4 weeks old) -unless dad is on a walk with babe. And the first time the crying at home was one hour and 20 minutes! This experience is BURNED in my memory. The shortest time was over 20 minutes...

I did have a commitment to be gone one night a month, and was gone for two bedtimes (but I raced home to try to be there in time) when babe was 4 and 5 months old (I have quit the last three times because of the stress on babe). It is helpful for me to realize that this experience with babe is what kicked the whole desire into gear for DH to put baby to sleep regularly...I didn't understand where it was coming from before now (but it DOES also seem to be coming from more than this). It is so understandable.









I'm glad it's helping. I hope this thread doesn't get pulled... sigh.

To your dh- it is NEVER okay to leave a baby to cry when you can fix it. Never. Period. Yes, my dd has cried while I ran to the bathroom, but beyond that- if we can fix it we do. It's only humane. Therefore it is NOT okay for you to keep an unhappy baby from mama if she is there and able to take said baby. It doesn't teach the baby anything except that life sucks and they can't trust you to respond to their needs. Wouldn't you rather be the hero who understands that sometimes only mama will do and RUSHES to bring in the mama?

to Djwratha- I'm glad that you re-thought your evening commitments when they didn't seem to work out. It sounds like your baby is just at the age that you are needed for bed time. That's normal and it WILL pass as long as he is taught that his needs WILL be met (not ignored by dad trying to prove a point







)

-Angela


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## CryPixie83 (Jan 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Djwratha*
It is me. Thanks.

Wow, this is hard. I am so sad. DH is saying that just because I feel so strongly about it not happening (CIO with dad) is reason enough to do it, because he's suspicious that I am going to mess baby up with my parenting philosophy. I am thinking of leaving for my parents' until we can at least speak to each other calmly...

This may be a very good idea. I've been in an abusive relationship before, which makes it even easier to recognize them. You're in one. Your husband needs counseling. I don't see him being a decent husband or father until he gets serious help. You also need a LOT of open, honest and FAIR communication. No yelling and no verbal, emotional or physical abuse.

By the way, change your password. Do not tolerate his invasions of your privacy.


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## emmabella (Feb 14, 2005)

After reading through this thread there are a couple things I feel need to be said.

First and foremost: while we can sympathize and give gentle advice to this couple, NONE of us is in any position to make blatant judgements or hand out one-size-fits-all solutions. Nobody here has met them, is privy to all facets of their relationship, or even knows for sure whether the entire truth is being told from both sides. Some of the comments and suggestions being made in this thread I would be shocked to receive from a close friend much less an anonymous person on the internet. In addition, what works for you and your family is not necessarily best for everyone else.

Second, I'm very suprised by the pervading attitude here that attachment & nighttime parenting is a mama-only business. In my opinion (plus some of the other posters here & also Dr. Sears who is of course a man) it takes both partners to effectively attachment parent a babe. Parenting is such an amazingly challenging process, cooperation and teamwork between mothers & fathers is so key to everyone's sanity. Father's are wonderful primary caregivers & night time parents with an incredible capacity to nurture their children. We shouldn't take their desire to be involved lightly.

Now, since Djwratha & djhusband have asked for advice I'll put in my two cents, take it or leave it. Many people here and even yourselves have talked about either mom or dad being the one to put baby to bed but I would suggest a different approach. Why not work on a bedtime routine that includes both of you? For instance: mom, dad and baby cuddle up for a last cozy nursing of the night; mom, dad and baby have a soothing bath followed by baby massage; mom, dad and baby read a book together; mom and dad take turns rocking while the other sings bedtime songs. No more of the my way versus your way... make bedtime all about cozy family time together. This will benefit baby in that he sees both mom & dad are comforting presences in regards to sleep. It would be a benefit to you as a couple because you are working as a team and fostering a close bond as parents while developing a routine that either of you is able to replicate in a situation where the other is unavailable.

In conclusion, be kind to eachother. The best gift you can give your son are two parents who love & encourage one another.


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## CryPixie83 (Jan 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
After reading the post from djhusband, I'm even more concerned for DJ's safety. This sounds SO MUCH like the way my abusive H used to talk to me- trying to put a new spin on things, not taking any responsibility for his own actions and trying to blame somebody else for it all, and especially the way he said "I'm sorry and I'll never do it again but you have to do these 3 things first."

These were my thoughts as well. He turned EVERYTHING around and put the blame on her. My ex did the same thing, just like his father (who, btw has beat his wife for over 20 years now).

Therapy is a start, but it won't make things better right away.

What "H" has done and said and the way he has behaved are *wrong* whether he understand or acknowledges it or not.

To H:
A baby should *never* be removed from mama's arms unless it is in danger by being there. Breast comes before solids, always. If mama says baby needs to nurse, you don't question it. You NEVER EVER restrain a woman, nothing gives you the right to do so unless she is a danger to herself or others. During the first year of life, a baby needs it's mother more than any other thing or person, this is a fact. Find better ways to get involved. PLay with your ds, bathe him, take on diaper duty, etc.

OP: please keep us posted on what is going on.


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## Marlet (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *djhusband*
I also told her I needed her to comply with my three
requests.


Out of that entire post this is what stands out to me the most. You NEED her to comply with you? You need that as much as you need a hole in your head. What you NEED is some therapy, a parenting course or two, and to compromise and have HEALTHY conversations. Your post, DJ's DH, is full of comments like the one above. She is your wife, not an emplyoee. I don't think the household you two are creating is healthy. I think it's abusive and from the condescending I am man bow down before me woman tone in your post I feel it is only going to get worse.
DJ, get out and get help.


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## janebug (May 25, 2005)

oh dear, I have not had experience with abuse so i will let the other posters speak to that, but please take care of yourself mama. I am very concerned that your husband said you are not trustworthy. Demands and force always make me feel nervous. Please be alert to warning signs so you can help yourself before you are in danger.

to Dj's husband:
I understand you want to help with your babe and that is so good. Give yourself time and space to learn about your child and trust your wife to tell you about how she has learned to relate to him. SHE IS TRUSTWORTHY. unless you trust her you two cannot really get anywhere. Also trust your son to let you know what he needs. It is so hard in this society to be able to listen when other (babies, wives, friends) are telling you what they need....but try OK? I know you have certain things that you would like to happen, so did I, but sometimes you have to realize that that isn't working for your baby and you need to make adjustements. remember, babies are not machines...they don't follow timetables or schedules. Try hard to listen to your heart and see what you three really need and NOT what some book, or outsider or family member is telling you that you need. You are the parent, if you listen to your child, you will know best how to raise him to be strong and interedependent.

To DJ:
It's true that men and women are just different. I've fought it all my life but it's no use. A mama is a mama. My husband is a very loving man but we have also had to work through some weird ideas he has had about what ds should be doing by such and such a time ( mind you this is also how my family feels). I think the difference in our case was that while i had some nagging doubts and worries in my mind, i am not able to act against my instinct. And my dh is somehow able to say, well so-and-so is doing with their baby and so should we. In a way, my dh is almost looking to me to take a stand and say, NO, we will do it our way. Sometimes people push you b/c somewhere they want you to take a stand and reassure them. men can be alot less confident than they project. And it is hard to work out mama bear/papa bear issues....also depending on the personality of your baby....mine is a mama's boy no question. So i kinda know what you are going through but please please please do not let yourself be pushed (physcially, emotionally or mentally) to do something you do not want or feel is not right. It is Ok, for you to have discussions about these things, but NOT OK for your husband to force them to happen.

Also it doesn't get anybody anywhere.

Please post and let us know how you are.

Love to you.


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## midwestmeg (Jul 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *emmabella*

First and foremost: while we can sympathize and give gentle advice to this couple, NONE of us is in any position to make blatant judgements or hand out one-size-fits-all solutions. Nobody here has met them, is privy to all facets of their relationship, or even knows for sure whether the entire truth is being told from both sides. Some of the comments and suggestions being made in this thread I would be shocked to receive from a close friend much less an anonymous person on the internet. In addition, what works for you and your family is not necessarily best for everyone else.

In conclusion, be kind to eachother. The best gift you can give your son are two parents who love & encourage one another.









:


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## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeosMama*
This doesn't make sense. Your feeling strongly about it indicates that you are an attached mama. You can't spoil a baby, but you can traumatize him.

I think that it might be a good idea for you to take a break from dh. You should also consider changing your password here and perhaps your user name so you can keep your time here private and so that we know that when you write, it is really you and you are safe. Sorry to be paranoid.


i completely agree with this....please take care of yourself and your baby-nobody else will if you don't.


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## Naiad (Jul 1, 2005)

Quote:

After reading the post from djhusband, I'm even more concerned for DJ's safety.
Just what I was thinking, and a subject I with which I have some experience. There's a profile here that's fitting to a tee.

DJ, I think you need a support system that your dh can't interfere with, or try to subvert.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Here's a check-in. Thanks for asking. I'll let y'all know how things go. We're having a nice cool-down period.

I agree that kindness and treating others with respect and dignity is the most important thing. Amen.

Hey, It occured to me to let info seekers know that although I initially thought baby "wasn't too damaged" by tbe crying, he is now doing this nervous thing with his forefinger and his thumb (which may or may not be related to the situation). Also, he wrings his hands when dad puts him to bed at night. And has left tiny bite bruises on his hands and scratches on his face, which are normally not there.

Sending love out,
"DJ"


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## ber (Apr 5, 2005)

Just keep loving that baby and trusting your gut. I can't even imagine having to hear my baby cry like that









In terms of the scratches on his face - at that age, DS had a lot of scratches on his face even without crying (and with constant nail trimming) but if he ever got really worked up and cried for a few minutes as I tried to figure out what was bugging him, that's when he'd get the worst scratches


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## Jenlaana (Oct 28, 2005)

when my daughter gets agitated (at 7 wks old) she does some wierd agitated finger movements too. She pinches her cheek, squeezes her ear, and pulls her hair very fast, with only her right hand. But that being said, I've had cart blanche to almost never ever let her cry or feel uncared for or any of the other things that AP is against, and she still does it sometimes. I'm sure that if it only happened a few times your baby will be able to get past it and memories of CIO will fade with time.

I'm so sorry for everything you are going through.







I won't attempt to give advice, because I'm sure you know in your heart how you need to handle things for you and your precious baby. *hugs*


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Oh yeah, and normally baby wakes in bed with us with a *BEAMING* smile, but the lastest time that he went to sleep crying, he awoke with a FAKE smile the next morning. Hard to explain, but unmistakeable. DH even noticed. It was so sad.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Funny how those of us who have been in and freed from long-term abusive situaions can see through all the words...

Ruth and Angela are spot on.


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## 3ncountin (Nov 12, 2005)

I am going to speak from personal experience here . You DH sounds exactly like my first husband was with our son . I cannot stress how scared i am for you . What has happened may seem not quite like abuse to you but this is how it starts . Before i knew it my husband was beating me because i refused to "let him parent " our child by hitting him with a switch . By the time i found the courage to do what i shouldve done after the forced feadings of ds and the forced cryfests my ds had seen things no child should ever have to see. Do what you know in your heart is right. Keep yourself and your little one safe . remember emotional abuse is abuse and it usually doesnt end there.
My heart and prayers go out to you


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## CryPixie83 (Jan 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aira*
Funny how those of us who have been in and freed from long-term abusive situaions can see through all the words...

.

Yea, funny in the detatched, cynical way... *sigh* sad the price we've have paid for this wisdom....

How are you today DJ, please give us an update as soon as you can.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Still in a holding pattern. Thanks for asking. Your words of wisdom sear through me; I haven't been the same since.

Breathing deeply, though.

Sending love out again today,
Debora


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## Plummeting (Dec 2, 2004)

Wow. I agree with Ruthla. Your DH sounds abusive. His coming here and posting his own "version" of events is creepy. It isn't just the way he thinks it's normal to forcibly sit you down on the bed or demand that you "comply". Those things are creepy enough, but just the fact that he thinks it's normal to come to *your* haven and use *your* password, then when that doesn't work to create his own, just so he can give his own version of events. Why is he spying on you? Why is he reading your emails and checking where you post? That's not behavior you would find in a healthy relationship. I am very scared for you, mama.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Please do take care of yourself and baby. Our warnings are not without metrit. This is quite serious.


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## janebug (May 25, 2005)

mamas who know...I am wondering if when the signs of abuse are there, is it pretty much a given that things will defnitely go down that slippery slope? It seems like it is and I think I could see how someone could talk themselves into not worrying by saying " oh my partner's getting help, or we're in therapy." but those of you who have been there may know that there's little chance of change. ok, my last comment, don't really know what I am talking about. just don't want the op to talk herself out of getting help especially if there's little chance that her dh will change.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Hey all!

I just re-read this thread for the first time since that period. "H" and I have been split for over a year now. I was able to hold it together long enough to get a comfortable living situation for us and for DS to be old enough (if that can be) to do overnights with "H" (i celebrated because his first night EVER away from me was 3 months ago- he's 3 and 1/2 now). YAY! and we're still extended BFing.

That was incredibly painful. I just had a good cry over it. Thanks for holding my hand through that! You mamas definitely saw the writing on the wall. The abuse did escalate to the point that one night i ran out of the house in my undies with babe to HIDE from "H."

My one regret is that I didn't document and call the authorities. Let this be a reminder for others to do so...


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## OGirlieMama (Aug 6, 2006)

I just read this whole thread not realizing it was nearly 3 years old. I nearly cried with relief at your update post. I am so glad you are no longer living with your (ex, I assume) husband. You have certainly been through awful things and I hope happier times lie ahead.


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## BarefootScientist (Jul 24, 2007)

I wasn't here back in 2005 either but just wanted to say I'm glad that things turned out well for you and that you got out and got the help you needed!


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## Meems (Jan 8, 2007)

i am so glad you got out of a very bad situation. my heart was hurting for you during that terrible time.

i am so glad you were able to protect your child and yourself.


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## Ks Mama (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Honestly I think you need to get out until your husband gets some help. Physical violence is NEVER okay. He needs to admit that and agree to never allow violence in the house.

-Angela

Absolutely.

I know its hard, but PLEASE, please, please get help NOW.

NOW NOW NOW. Abusers DO NOT change without help.

EDITED:
Wow, that was years ago, sorry, didn't notice the date.
So glad for the update! Thank you for sharing, and SO glad you got out of that situation!!!!!!


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

YAY







: YAY







: YAY!!!!

Thanks for celebrating with me!!!!


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OGirlieMama* 
I just read this whole thread not realizing it was nearly 3 years old. I nearly cried with relief at your update post. I am so glad you are no longer living with your (ex, I assume) husband. You have certainly been through awful things and I hope happier times lie ahead.

















: Congratulations for getting out in time!


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## Edmontonmother (Nov 6, 2008)

My dd prefers me for almost all things so I have had to struggle to build my partners confidence etc. I think there are a lot of things you have to let him try by himself, taking your child out, going to a play group, bathing and even bedtimes. Your partner desperatly wants to pride himself in his parenting and succeed so do help him/let him succeed/show him you trust him without always second guessing him.

HOWEVER, you must discuss your limits with him (not at bedtime/when you both are frustrated) For example "I want you to try to put her to sleep and I am happy I get a nice break for myself, however, I really feel like when she is really screaming or after 10 minutes I would like to hold her".

It is your right to hold her and comfort her and you are trusting your interests.

I used to have to say to my partner "I know you think I am being over-emotional, but that's just me and you have to respect that." For me there were some postpartum depression issue there too so he was very sensitive to that.

Again, discussing your limits/bedtime routine when you are not in the moment is key.

Good luck!


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## Kappa (Oct 15, 2007)

Good for you!!!


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## Live~Laugh~Love (Dec 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ks Mama* 
Absolutely.

I know its hard, but PLEASE, please, please get help NOW.

NOW NOW NOW. Abusers DO NOT change without help.

EDITED:
Wow, that was years ago, sorry, didn't notice the date.
So glad for the update! Thank you for sharing, and SO glad you got out of that situation!!!!!!

very well said.. I agree firmly with you


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## calpurnia (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm so glad you & your baby are safe now. You did both of you proud


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