# Breastfeeding in the car



## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

I see a ton of references to people who are breastfeeding a child in a car seat while the vehicle is in motion. I find myself trying to figure out what it is that makes people think this is safe.

We make sure not to move our children to less restrictive seats until we are certain they are able to 'sit well' but many parents make contortionists of themselves to be able to quiet a fussy baby while the vehicle is rolling along. it seems completely in contrast to what should be done to keep everyone as safe as possible. If woman has slid her torso over to nurse the baby- her shoulder belt is not in an appropriate position to ensure her safety, and she is now 150 lbs of mass moving at 75 mph straight into the 15 lb infant she is attempting to pacify. It seems incredibly dangerous and unnecessary to me.

Am I missing something here in terms of how/why this is perceived as 'safe'?


----------



## jazzharmony (Nov 10, 2006)

I don't think people generally perceive this is safe but the fact is, in bumper to bumper traffic with no place to pull over and no end in sight, sometimes we do what we have to do.


----------



## HeliMom (Jan 14, 2010)

I dunno about in motion but I have suggested to other posters to leave the baby in the carseat to comfort nurse when you are traveling. Many times on road trips we've pulled over and done without the hellish process of baby in and out of carseat by my leaning over.

I wouldn't suggest other people do it while driving, but I have with my toddler.







My personal thought process was that I'm still in my seatbelt and only my breast and shoulder were in front of the baby. I don't think it's "safe" but within my personal limits of risk taking. Maybe that's something I should reevaluate.


----------



## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

I think that where I live colors my thinking about this. There is never bumper to bumper traffic- but it's all high speed highway to get anywhere- the risk of an animal jumping out, or someone going off the road is more significant than a multi-vehicle crash. So to me it just seems scary.

Also, couldn't the 'you do what you have to do' argument be used for turning kids early and taking them out of their seats to sit on laps as well?

I'm not making a judgment as obviously we all have our own levels of comfort, I'm just trying to figure out why this is something so many people are comfortable with as it is one of those concepts that really scare me. I would love to see some research. I wonder how other parents find that 'line' of what is and isn't an acceptable risk.


----------



## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

I've done it. I don't perceive it as safe. However, I do think its safer than sitting in the emergency lane on the side of the road nursing with your flashers on. I think its safer than having my husband feel like he's about to have a panic attack while hes driving because the baby wont quit screaming and theres no where to pull over. It sucks, but sometimes you have to get somewhere, and you cant keep stopping every 20 minutes to nurse.


----------



## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

I've done it, but I don't consider it safe. I consider a last resort. I've done it maybe a half dozen times (my DD is 2 and was a serious carseat screamer). Usually when pulling over to to nurse was not a possibility (traffic, road conditions, weather) and we still had a long way to go, and I couldn't settle her using other means. Now I only do it on airplanes, which is far less of a safety concern, IMO, and doesn't come with the option to pull over.

Sometimes it's just a risk I'm willing to take.


----------



## Mamato3wild ponnie (Jan 6, 2007)

.........I live in Mexico and there are NO child seat belt laws here....having said that. I know the safety issues with having children out of the car seat...however.....I have







..pulled a Brittany Spears and nursed at the same time!
Just had to add my personal opinion...do what YOU have to do as a family. I dont see it as a debate at all. We ALL do what we have to, to make it all work. Doesnt make me right and you wrong...nor does it make you right and me wrong.


----------



## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *confustication* 
I think that where I live colors my thinking about this. There is never bumper to bumper traffic- but it's all high speed highway to get anywhere- the risk of an animal jumping out, or someone going off the road is more significant than a multi-vehicle crash. So to me it just seems scary.

Also, couldn't the 'you do what you have to do' argument be used for turning kids early and taking them out of their seats to sit on laps as well?

I'm not making a judgment as obviously we all have our own levels of comfort, I'm just trying to figure out why this is something so many people are comfortable with as it is one of those concepts that really scare me. I would love to see some research. I wonder how other parents find that 'line' of what is and isn't an acceptable risk.

I have done it when I judged the risk to be minimal and the need to be great due to bumper to bumper traffic or no traffic at all but a long car ride with a driver who would not pull over. My dd was also a carseat screamer and didn't stop screaming on car rides until she was able to face forward and eat in the car. It was an awful time, going on a trip was horrible and stopping the car to nurse then put her back in did no good. There were times when I would do anything to stop the crying because what I was worried about was that and my sanity not the minimal risk that I was putting myself in.

In times when you can see what is going on and there is almost no chance of getting in a wreck I don't see a problem with comforting a baby by being a contortionist nurser. I don't see it as the same as taking kids out of seatbelts or turning them too early. It is something adults do when they feel that it is what they need to do and they judge the situation and find it safe enough. I haven't seen research on this, but I also haven't heard of car crashes because of this either so it isn't really something that worries me. I typically follow my instincts and make judgment calls based on my comfort level and what I know about a specific area or scenario to decide what I feel is acceptable and what isn't.


----------



## SC_Jan (May 19, 2010)

I have to say, I had a screamer who did not travel well and a husband who couldn't handle the crying, and never once did it dawn on me to do such a thing. We just mentally doubled the time it took to get anywhere, stopped as needed, and traveled as little as possible. Sure it was hard, but it's all over now.

I do think there is a clear right and wrong here. BF + driving=no,no,no. If a car seat toy that hangs several inches above a child's face is considered a hazard in a crash, then my upper body would surely be a hazard as well. Also, a wreck is ALWAYS possible, so not sure how anyone is able to predict a drunk driver isn't coming around the corner.


----------



## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SC_Jan* 
I have to say, I had a screamer who did not travel well and a husband who couldn't handle the crying, and never once did it dawn on me to do such a thing. We just mentally doubled the time it took to get anywhere, stopped as needed, and traveled as little as possible. Sure it was hard, but it's all over now.

I do think there is a clear right and wrong here. BF + driving=no,no,no. If a car seat toy that hangs several inches above a child's face is considered a hazard in a crash, then my upper body would surely be a hazard as well. Also, a wreck is ALWAYS possible, so not sure how anyone is able to predict a drunk driver isn't coming around the corner.

See, doubling the time would have been fine, but with my DD it would have been more like never getting anywhere at all. If I nursed her out of the seat, she would start sobbing the second I put her back in, no matter if we stopped for 5mins or an hour. Nursing didn't help at all unless it was in the seat with the car moving. Also, in some circumstances, you really can't pull over safely (highway with 30 miles to the next exit - the emergency lane/curb is NOT a safe place to be) and in some conditions (stopped traffic) you can't pull over and in others (low visibility snowstorm at night) it is not safe to do so.

There are a lot of circumstances where "just pull over to nurse and plan extra time" just doesn't work.


----------



## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama* 
I've done it. I don't perceive it as safe. However, I do think its safer than sitting in the emergency lane on the side of the road nursing with your flashers on. I think its safer than having my husband feel like he's about to have a panic attack while hes driving because the baby wont quit screaming and theres no where to pull over. It sucks, but sometimes you have to get somewhere, and you cant keep stopping every 20 minutes to nurse.

This. 100%.

We tried the "pull over in the first place" and ended up in a really scary area. I only nursed a few mins (long enough to calm him down) and then we were off again...and he started screaming. So, it did no good.


----------



## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

I must admit every time I've read it I cringe - it's just not safe imo.

We lived in Costa Rica for the first 6 months of ds' life where you get nowhere fast & there is rarely a safe place to pull over immediately. Yes, we had some ROUGH times in the car waiting until we got to a safe place we could pull over & then sit & nurse. It was no fun for any of us but a bad injury in a car accident would have been worse.


----------



## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

I live almost an hour from the nearest 'town', so car travel is a must. In that distance, there's only one exit- and for a number of reasons, it's not really a 'good' stopping spot. Also, we have extremes of 110º and -40º so stopping in general sometimes isn't the best course of action. My kids learn early to take a bottle or a pacifier if they need to suck and the car is moving- but I recognize that not all families are comfortable with that.

Once they are a little older, the car is the one place where I am very clear about overall safety and well being vs. instantly meeting their wants and needs. I feel like the 'best' thing is for us to get home or into town asap, and once we are there we can nurse/babywear/reassure. While we are driving I will sing and talk, but that's about it. It also helps to have an adult sit in the back or my oldest who is always happy to make faces and chatter to her siblings.









We don't do a whole lot of long treks until the kids are bigger, but when we do, we plan to stop along the way a lot- and preplan the stops so we know where we are going will be safe. However, this does not always lead to tear free travel, and I'm ok with that- provided the kids don't feel abandoned- so we talk and we sing. For our kids, that is usually enough, and when it isn;'t bottles and pacifiers are available.

I realize that this could be a touchy issue either way, and I really don't want to stir up hostility, but it does intrigue me especially as I see it suggested SO often.


----------



## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

I nurse in the car and I really don't feel it is that dangerous *for me*. I am still buckled in and all I literally do is lean forward and flop my breast over the side of the seat for DD to nurse. I have very large floppy breasts and this is one instance where they come in handy, literally only my breast is over DD's seat. If I'm not nursing her I'm leaned a bit over entertaining her anyways usually with my arm across her seat and my head leaned over so she can see me. More of my body is over her seat in this instance then when I am nursing her.
Letting her scream bloody murder when there is another driver is just not an option for us. It is extremely distracting to try and drive while she is screaming, especially in stop and go, low speed city traffic. And super especially with a 4 yo also peppering you with questions/singing/whining because the baby is crying.


----------



## lunarlady (Jan 4, 2010)

I think it depends a lot on the car, the seat, and the woman nursing. For some of us, you just sort of lean over and support your breast, with baby in the middle seat and mommy by the window, and the problem is solved. But for others, more circus acts might be required. While this isn't ideal, I do feel that it isn't super dangerous as in a crash my body will be thrown around to the extent of the seatbelt anyway, so the fact that I was leaning forward shouldn't really change the safety factor all that much.

My preference is to pump and put it in a bottle, but we all do what we have to.


----------



## Katie T (Nov 8, 2008)

I did when I was 19 yo with my first lo and we were on our way home from a out of state trip and my mom wouldn't pull over. I didn't even know or think at the time of how unsafe it was. That said I have only done it that once. If I was in bumper to bumper stopped traffic with a screaming baby I would do it though. I would rather that than take the baby all the way out of the carseat in the stopped traffic. Seems like the lesser of 2 evils to me.

I don't think most of the people who are doing it realize how dangerous it is.


----------



## SC_Jan (May 19, 2010)

It's not a safe option. That's all I'm saying.


----------



## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

For all of those who think it's okay to do in bumper to bumper traffic, take a look at this and this.

That is what happened to my husband's car in heavy Chicago bumper-to-bumper Edens Expressway traffic.


----------



## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

I'm in the "unsafe" crowd on this too. In an impact, your breast and upper body are going to be violently thrown against your baby. I would imagine you would crush their jaw, or worse.

That being said, when there is no where to stop I can see why people would choose too. Being small chested myself, there is no way I could nurse my kids in their seats anyways!


----------



## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
Being small chested myself, there is no way I could nurse my kids in their seats anyways!

Lol, thats me. I once attempted when parked (DH had run into the store to get something and I was trying to buy time by not taking her out of the seat) and failed miserably









If I had those breasts that you see in National Geographic, and could just sling one over the side of the car seat, then maybe. But these A cups sure ain't cuttin' it.


----------



## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
If I had those breasts that you see in National Geographic, and could just sling one over the side of the car seat, then maybe. But these A cups sure ain't cuttin' it.

Yeah, I have those, and if DS had been able to nurse (he had trouble for other reasons), it would have been easy to nurse him in the car seat without moving my upper body over him at all. I might have had to lean directly forward but not to the side or anything.


----------



## Paigekitten (Feb 22, 2008)

I've done it, and I'll keep doing it if I have to. If my first daughter was in her seat she screamed. I nursed her EVERY time we were in the car, and I didn't drive because I couldn't handle the screaming while driving. I am large breasted and I'd rather have my floppy soft breast in her face then a hard plastic bottle if anything happened. My second daughter refuses a bottle or pacifier of any sort so that's just not an option sometimes.

What would you do if your child screamed like they were in pain every time you put them in the car seat, refused to take an artificial nipple of any sort, and were in weather or distances where walking/biking/bussing were not an option? What would you do in that circumstance for TWO YEARS?

If I nurse her in her seat we MAY be in an accident where there MAY be injuries. If I don't nurse her in her seat she WILL experience the trauma of being left to scream EVERY SINGLE TIME.


----------



## Artichokie (Jun 19, 2007)

Dr. Sears actually RECOMMENDS it in his baby book.


----------



## petey44 (Nov 6, 2008)

My DD has always hated the carseat. She's 22 months and RF. When she was tiny, I would ride in the back with her and let her suck on my pinky finger, because she never took a pacifier. Now I sing NONSTOP, it seems like, when we're in the car. She makes requests and I sing whatever song she wants. If we're on a longer trip and my DH is driving, I'll sit in the back with her and read books to her.
I never nursed her while she was in her seat and the car was in motion- it's dangerous! Say whatever you want about calculated risks, to me the risk of leaning my body over my child in a moving car is the same as taking my child out of the carseat in a moving car- neither is an option. I think it's important to find other ways of comforting your child besides nursing, for this very reason.


----------



## Charrey (Jul 27, 2010)

I did it one time when my son was a baby and rear-facing. Not only was it incredibly uncomfortable and impossible to get a good latch, but it even felt incredibly unsafe! I was holding my breath praying we would not get in an accident the entire three minutes I did it.
I had a frequent nurser but he mostly slept in the car.


----------



## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Sure it's not safe, but a distracted driver isn't safe either. Talking on a cell phone while driving is about the same risk as driving drunk, so why is driving with your loved one screaming in the backseat when there is a workable solution not a concern? Of course it's better to find a different way to calm the child, but pulling over, binkies, bottles and toys don't work for all kids . Sure, breastfeeding while driving increases the risk to the child _if_ you get in an accident, but it can reduce driver distraction, making the likelihood of an accident _less_, which is good for the baby, the mother, the driver, and everybody else on the road.


----------



## TnMsMama (Jul 12, 2010)

Count me among the car-seat nursers. I've also go "National Geographic" boobs (Although I prefer the term "go-go-gadget boobies") and the ONLY thing over my baby when we do it is my boob. I don't do it while i'm driving of course, but if DP is driving and she's losing it, I'm not going to let her suffer when I've got what she wants right in my bra. That's just mean. I'm able to leave my seatbelt on and in the right position - honestly, I'm less safe when I'm leaning forward digging in my purse for my cell phone or a tissue.

The only time we've had a problem is when DP drove over a cattle guard while I was nursing and DD about bit my nipple off.

The risk of an accident because DP is distracted by her screaming is much greater, IMO.


----------



## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rachelsmama* 
Sure it's not safe, but *a distracted driver isn't safe either.* Talking on a cell phone while driving is about the same risk as driving drunk, so why is driving with your loved one screaming in the backseat when there is a workable solution not a concern? Of course it's better to find a different way to calm the child, but pulling over, binkies, bottles and toys don't work for all kids . Sure, breastfeeding while driving increases the risk to the child _if_ you get in an accident, but it can reduce driver distraction, making the likelihood of an accident _less_, which is good for the baby, the mother, the driver, and everybody else on the road.

Exactly. There's a reason that when a new driver gets their license they aren't allowed to drive with friends...even talking to passengers is a distraction. I've noticed that DH's driving gets a little more erratic and rushed when DS really gets going. My DS would never take a pacifier (we waited too long to introduce it or whatever), I didn't have the supply to pump enough to do bottles for trips, and in Texas there are a lot of long stretches of road with nowhere to pull over safely. I'd rather take the risk with myself and lean over to nurse (still belted around the waist...better than nothing, right?) than have DH pull over on a busy highway and risk some idiot hitting the stopped car.


----------



## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

I've done it, mostly on the highway for long drives. We did pull over to stop when we could, but sometimes he'd want to nurse right away after we had stopped.

When DS was RF, I usually had to lean forward a bit to get there, but I kept the shoulder belt on. Count me in the "National Geographic" size too. I've always made a point to keep most of me on the non-baby side of the carseat, but I must admit that sometimes my right arm has been on the seat stabilizing us.

I've even managed a little bit when DS was FF and I was beside him.


----------



## SC_Jan (May 19, 2010)

Yeouch about the nipple story. I have to admit The World According to Garp came to mind when this topic first came up. I do live in a carcentric city, my daughter did scream the entire time she was in the car, it really does suck. I hope no one feels like I'm judging them when I said it never crossed my mind to nurse in the car. I'm sure many are judging me for letting her cry until we could safely stop. Most of my earlier post was directed at the breastfeeding the baby in the lap while driving story which admittedly is not the real topic of the thread.

I certainly do things that involve risk after determining the benefits are worth it. I just try not to mess around with physics 'cause that meanie gives no quarter







.


----------



## Mosaic (Jun 20, 2005)

Count me in with the itty-bitty-boobie club who is convinced that there is no way on earth I could nurse a baby in a carseat, let alone while buckled in, let alone in a moving vehicle! Seriously, the physics alone boggle my mind!

Does no one travel with a pump? Or will those babies not take a bottle? Yeah, pumping and bottle feeding is a pain (literally and figuratively) when you can do it right from the source, but given the safety benefits, why not? Just tring to figure out why that wasn't mentioned yet...


----------



## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I don't think I ever, with four kids, nursed them in a moving vehicle (buckled or not). I do recall, many o many of times where the second we arrived at our destination (or where DH pulled over), I was unbuckling a hungry baby and nursing in the front seat.

Maybe part of it is that I rarely sat in the back seat (no room now), so feeding them while they were strapped into the car seat just didn't really cross my mind.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I don't travel with a pump. Never occured to me - pump stays at work, where it is needed.

"I nurse in the car and I really don't feel it is that dangerous *for me*. I am still buckled in and all I literally do is lean forward and flop my breast over the side of the seat for DD to nurse. I have very large floppy breasts and this is one instance where they come in handy, literally only my breast is over DD's seat. If I'm not nursing her I'm leaned a bit over entertaining her anyways usually with my arm across her seat and my head leaned over so she can see me. More of my body is over her seat in this instance then when I am nursing her.
Letting her scream bloody murder when there is another driver is just not an option for us. It is extremely distracting to try and drive while she is screaming, especially in stop and go, low speed city traffic."










I don't do this on a regular basis, but I do feel the need on occasion. I feel super mean for withholding what he *needs* and DH drives way crazier when the baby is screaming in the backseat. If it is less than 10 minutes where we are going, then yeah, babe will wait. Any more than that, I move to the back seat and take whatever measures necessary. Yeah, I try non-boob measures first. but usually, by the time he is that upset, only the boob is going to work, and often it only takes a minute or three, to get him calm enough to use the non-boob measures (singing, playing, etc)


----------



## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

I realize now that I am kind of the 'odd one out' in that screaming/crying from a child doesn't impact my ability to drive. Of course hearing my child upset is upsetting to me, but it doesn't cause that level of distress when I know that he is safe, though maybe not happy.

I do remember that when I had my first the crying was far more distressing to me than it is with my third. I did pull over in parking lots etc with her. Now, I have two other kids who need to get where they are going to be happy, and my youngest is a super high needs baby- his frustration would be fueled by a quick stop to nurse without being allowed to remain held/nursed while driving. I also realize that I drive a minivan with captain's seats in the back, so 'leaning over' is a lot more complicated than when sitting in the bench seat of a car, for instance. While I have National Geographic-esque breasts, they'd need to be Ripley's Believe It Or Not-esque to span the gap between the seats back there.









The vast majority of the time I respond to my kids right away, and I do so in the car as well when they are cranky, but I use other soothing measures, and I make it a point to make sure my babies take a bottle fairly early on and go back and forth well. It's funny how we can judge people for taking risks we aren't comfortable with, and other people judge parenting choices they aren't comfortable with.


----------



## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mosaic* 
Does no one travel with a pump? Or will those babies not take a bottle? Yeah, pumping and bottle feeding is a pain (literally and figuratively) when you can do it right from the source, but given the safety benefits, why not? Just tring to figure out why that wasn't mentioned yet...

I did that with my first on a couple of night time drives. Just took my hand pump and a bottle. It worked ok then.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *confustication* 
I do remember that when I had my first the crying was far more distressing to me than it is with my third. I did pull over in parking lots etc with her. Now, I have two other kids who need to get where they are going to be happy, and my youngest is a super high needs baby- his frustration would be fueled by a quick stop to nurse without being allowed to remain held/nursed while driving.


Ditto on the first to third child. Fortunately my 3rd child isn't all that high needs. But as long as I know she's not hungry, I will try to get where I'm going as soon as possible. Sometimes she just wants held or out of her seat, and I understand that, but when you have to get the older child to school or what not, the baby has to wait for the 10 minute drive, kwim? I do try to make it up to her when we get where we are. And if she's super upset and doesn't calm down after a few minutes and it's feasible I stop. But honestly, at a very young age she figured out she's happier if she just leans over and sleeps for the ride and does that all the time now. If I'd stopped every time she cried like I would with my first that would have never happened.


----------



## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Paigekitten* 
What would you do if your child screamed like they were in pain every time you put them in the car seat, refused to take an artificial nipple of any sort, and were in weather or distances where walking/biking/bussing were not an option? What would you do in that circumstance for TWO YEARS?
.

I'd rather have a screaming baby then one I killed when my body crushed them in a crash.

I stayed home a lot with ds and limited trips when we HAD to go get groceries and things, and he would suck my finger sometimes, or I even gave him a cup with expressed BM. I also nursed him right before every trip and tried to leave when I knew he was tired.

It sucked big time to have him cry, but its not safe to lean out of position to nurse, for you or the baby.


----------



## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leighi123* 
I'd rather have a screaming baby then one I killed when my body crushed them in a crash.

I stayed home a lot with ds and limited trips when we HAD to go get groceries and things, and he would suck my finger sometimes, or I even gave him a cup with expressed BM. I also nursed him right before every trip and tried to leave when I knew he was tired.

It sucked big time to have him cry, but its not safe to lean out of position to nurse, for you or the baby.

But again, what if you're just flopping and pointing your boob to his mouth, not leaning over him?


----------



## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leighi123* 
It sucked big time to have him cry, but its not safe to lean out of position to nurse, for you or the baby.

Technically it's not "dangerous" or "safe" it's just different levels of risk and different levels of benefits. Riding in a car has risks, staying home has risks, nursing in the carseat has risks, letting the baby scream his little head off has risks....there is no "right" answer because we can't predict the future. "Not safe" is your assessment based on your circumstances, it is valid, but doesn't necessarily apply to everybody's circumstances since babies', drivers, and driving conditions are all highly variable.

A major factor in this argument is that we don't all share the same priorities. Some of us assume there will be a crash and try to minimise the risks if that happens, some of us are most interested in minimising the risk of getting in a crash in the first place, and some of us factor mental health into the equation as well, while others put the priority on physical well-being.


----------



## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

rachelsmama - very well put!


----------



## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

is it any more "unsafe" than reading a book to a kid in a car seat? I mean I have to lean over so ds can see the pictures and I can see the words? Would one say "OMG that person suggested READING to help calm a kid in a carseat!!!"


----------



## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbone_kneegrabber* 
is it any more "unsafe" than reading a book to a kid in a car seat? I mean I have to lean over so ds can see the pictures and I can see the words? Would one say "OMG that person suggested READING to help calm a kid in a carseat!!!"

*This made me curious...* if it's so bad that kids shouldn't be in boosters or seat belts if they can't sit perfectly still 100% of the trip, then why is it okay for mom to be wiggling and leaning in HER belt?

I mean, if it's *not* "unsafe" for Mom to be leaning over her baby nursing, or twisting around to read a book, or what have you, then why on earth *is* it "unsafe" for a 4 year old child to do the same thing?

Just a spin on my thought process.......

To answer the question though, I can't nurse my babies in the car because I'm not big enough. So it's not an option, and I'm glad because they have all learned how to console themselves (usually by falling asleep) - I don't think I'd like it if my child came to expect to be nursed at every car ride.


----------



## HeliMom (Jan 14, 2010)

My daughter wouldn't take BM from a a bottle, would not, use any non mama boob comfort (no pacifer, no finger) She would cry herself so hysterical that she'd repeatedly vomit. Of course we'd try everything in under the sun before nursing while driving. One time I clapped my hands singing at her for 1 hour straight. The vomiting became a safety issue one time when I was trying to just finish the last 5 min of a trip, she vomited then choked and I had to rip her out of her carseat and help her expel the rest. I decided that day that I would do everything I could to minimize that torture the car brought her.

In my tool box :Less car rides, frequent breaks (a 6 hour trip to the inlaws took 2 full days), tons of distracting noises and yep nursing in the car if there was no where to pull over for more than 10 minutes.

Again I don't think it's "safe" but I hope I can shed some light onto why some of us can't just can't let them cry.


----------



## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeliMom* 
Again I don't think it's "safe" but I hope I can shed some light onto why some of us can't just can't let them cry.

My son cried himself so hysterical one night (the trip is only about 2 hours) that when we finally found a well-lit gas station it took 30mins of walking with him for him to calm down. He was so worked up that he wouldn't nurse and was crying so hard that it sounded like he was close to hyperventilating...he was 3 months old at the time. It was ridiculous.


----------



## WC_hapamama (Sep 19, 2005)

I'll agree that it's a calculated risk thing. To me, it's less risky for me to nurse my baby with my National Geographic boobies than it is for me to let the baby scream for 20 minutes while we're trying to find a safe place to pull over. Having a stressed out, distracted driver is a much larger risk than me sitting next to the car seat with my boob flopped over the side.

I generally only do it if we're on long car trips, and generally we make frequent stops on those (at least every 2 hours) so I don't end up doing it often.


----------



## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anastasiya* 
*This made me curious...* if it's so bad that kids shouldn't be in boosters or seat belts if they can't sit perfectly still 100% of the trip, then why is it okay for mom to be wiggling and leaning in HER belt?

I mean, if it's *not* "unsafe" for Mom to be leaning over her baby nursing, or twisting around to read a book, or what have you, then why on earth *is* it "unsafe" for a 4 year old child to do the same thing?

Just a spin on my thought process.......

To answer the question though, I can't nurse my babies in the car because I'm not big enough. So it's not an option, and I'm glad because they have all learned how to console themselves (usually by falling asleep) - I don't think I'd like it if my child came to expect to be nursed at every car ride.

It's not okay, it's not safe.

In a recent post I made (about riding with unrestrained passengers) AdventureDad stated that a 190lb adult going at (I think 19mph) would be flung forward if they were unbelted... and would be about 7600lbs of weight... That's a lot of force.

Granted, this situation is a little different (mom would be leaning out of her shoulder strap to nurse baby, presumably leaning over baby's car seat). Still- there would be a lot of force thrust at the baby.

Imagine if the car got crunched- kind of like the photos I posted earlier in this thread. A breast in the mouth of a baby would be compressed against baby's face and would likely smother the baby.


----------



## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbone_kneegrabber* 
is it any more "unsafe" than reading a book to a kid in a car seat? I mean I have to lean over so ds can see the pictures and I can see the words? Would one say "OMG that person suggested READING to help calm a kid in a carseat!!!"

Well, I wouldn't consider placing a book in front of a child in a moving vehicle to be safe either (aside from the parent leaning over to read the book, which is also obviously unsafe).

My general rule of thumb is, if you wouldn't throw it at your child's head at 90mph, then it shouldn't be in the car.

A book is a potential projectile in a crash. Sure, soft books are better (like those bath books or cloth books) but then there's still the whole mother leaning out of her seatbelt factor.


----------



## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WC_hapamama* 
I'll agree that it's a calculated risk thing. To me, it's less risky for me to nurse my baby with my National Geographic boobies than it is for me to let the baby scream for 20 minutes while we're trying to find a safe place to pull over. Having a stressed out, distracted driver is a much larger risk than me sitting next to the car seat with my boob flopped over the side.

I generally only do it if we're on long car trips, and generally we make frequent stops on those (at least every 2 hours) so I don't end up doing it often.

Boob flopped over the side is a whole lot different than a mama with her whole body over the side of the car seat.

It is always a gamble- we just have to choose what's more risky for us in our particular situation.


----------



## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

Breastfeeding in a moving car is never safe and is always a bad idea. It's very common that parents don't understand the enormous forces involved in a collision even at low speed.

- 95% of all injuries take place at 31 mph or less.

- In a frontal collision at 30 mph, what most think as extremely slow, a child/adult is weighing 40 times their own body weigh. A mother weighing 150 lbs is therefore thrown forward with a force of 6000 lbs. This will either hit the baby or person in front. A seat belt which is partially fastened will provide very poor protection.

- Some mothers like to nurse with baby in their arms in the car. Doing this show a lack of understanding what will happen in a crash. Please take a look at this clip, a car in a frontal collision at 30 mph. That's a baby going through the window.

Quote:

What would you do if your child screamed like they were in pain every time you put them in the car seat, refused to take an artificial nipple of any sort, and were in weather or distances where walking/biking/bussing were not an option? What would you do in that circumstance for TWO YEARS?
Easy choice, I would keep my baby in a rear facing car seat until age 4. I would also try different things to make my baby more comfortable. A crying baby is IMHO far better than a dead baby.


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

I tried it once, with DD2. In order for my boob to reach her mouth, I had to be leaning over her, unbuckled, kneeling on the seat beside her. Not safe for anyone in the car. Since then, I've always just pulled over to nurse. Two of my 3 babies were (are!) car seat screamers, yet we RF until (at least) 3 years of age, and I have to say I'm not distracted at all by the screaming.


----------



## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
It's not okay, it's not safe.

Oh, I KNOW it's not safe. I was just putting a spin on it to help others realize that it makes _no_ sense to say it's unsafe for a child to be wiggling in a booster or belt (as is often said here in this forum) but it's NOT unsafe for Mom to be doing the same.


----------



## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
A crying baby is IMHO far better than a dead baby.

You're right, unfortunately there are some situations where a baby can end up dead because of the crying, and take a bunch of people with him. It's not common, but it can happen, which is why all these absolute statements like "Breastfeeding in a moving car is never safe and is always a bad idea." have so little credibility and are so ineffective at swaying those of us who have seen a driver's skills steadily decline due to distraction as we try every way imaginable to soothe a screaming baby. Because of the enormous forces involved in a collision, even at low speed, I'll put my efforts into avoiding collisions in the first place.


----------



## triscuitsmom (Jan 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rachelsmama* 
You're right, unfortunately there are some situations where a baby can end up dead because of the crying, and take a bunch of people with him. It's not common, but it can happen, which is why all these absolute statements like "Breastfeeding in a moving car is never safe and is always a bad idea." have so little credibility and are so ineffective at swaying those of us who have seen a driver's skills steadily decline due to distraction as we try every way imaginable to soothe a screaming baby. Because of the enormous forces involved in a collision, even at low speed, I'll put my efforts into avoiding collisions in the first place.

I hear this, truly. I have never driven my own children while screaming but I've been in the car while someone else was driving us and thought to myself that I don't know how I'd possibly focus if it were me who was driving at the time.

The only thing I can't help but think about when I read this though is that if it's truly such a risk to babies to have a driver distracted by them crying and the other people in the car why don't we see more real life evidence of that in Sweden? I'm sure that their babies scream just as much as ours do and I'm sure that they don't have some gene that makes them better drivers... so it makes me wonder, as awful as the feeling is, if it's really as big a risk as people make it out to be. Is it truly as big a risk to that child as being turned forward facing too young is for instance? (which I know isn't what this particular thread is about but it is given as a reason for turning kids at a year or even before a year even though we know that is statistically risky). For breastfeeding in the car, again we have no statistics so it's hard to say. I will admit I've nursed in the car... but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable doing it again knowing more about crash forces etc like I do now.


----------



## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *triscuitsmom* 
The only thing I can't help but think about when I read this though is that if it's truly such a risk to babies to have a driver distracted by them crying and the other people in the car why don't we see more real life evidence of that in Sweden? I'm sure that their babies scream just as much as ours do and I'm sure that they don't have some gene that makes them better drivers... so it makes me wonder, as awful as the feeling is, if it's really as big a risk as people make it out to be.

Do they collect data on sources of distraction for every crash in Sweden? If they do, how are they collecting it? How many drivers, when asked about the circumstances leading up to a crash, would be able to accurately describe everything that was causing their distraction? How many would blame their child? A screaming baby doesn't leave the type of physical evidence that a mechanical malfunction would, so if the crash was lethal the contributing factors would never be known. Add to that the fact that there is probably the same reluctance to discuss the disadvantages of carseats (not saying carseats are bad, just that they can be rather unpleasant at times) as we have here, and I'm not surprised you haven't seen any data from Sweden.

eta. And of course, not all babies scream all the time, and not all drivers are distracted by screaming, and not all driving conditions require the driver's full attention, etc... so it's only a tiny number of cars on the road at any time that have this issue.


----------



## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SC_Jan* 
I have to say, I had a screamer who did not travel well and a husband who couldn't handle the crying, and never once did it dawn on me to do such a thing. We just mentally doubled the time it took to get anywhere, stopped as needed, and traveled as little as possible. Sure it was hard, but it's all over now.

I do think there is a clear right and wrong here. BF + driving=no,no,no. If a car seat toy that hangs several inches above a child's face is considered a hazard in a crash, then my upper body would surely be a hazard as well. Also, a wreck is ALWAYS possible, so not sure how anyone is able to predict a drunk driver isn't coming around the corner.

Exactly. My husband is a dispatcher for the turnpike, and he sees everything. People think "the accident" will never happen to them. It will. Where and when they least expect it.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunarlady* 
I think it depends a lot on the car, the seat, and the woman nursing. For some of us, you just sort of lean over and support your breast, with baby in the middle seat and mommy by the window, and the problem is solved. But for others, more circus acts might be required. While this isn't ideal, I do feel that it isn't super dangerous as in a crash my body will be thrown around to the extent of the seatbelt anyway, so the fact that I was leaning forward shouldn't really change the safety factor all that much.

My preference is to pump and put it in a bottle, but we all do what we have to.

It depends on nothing. There is no safety factor because it just isn't safe. If you are rear ended by a tractor trailer, the car, seat, and the woman nursing all mean nothing. If you (general) are willing to risk that precious cargo, that's a the choice you are willing to make. I have seen first hand the devastation of such tragic accidents.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SC_Jan* 
It's not a safe option. That's all I'm saying.

Yes, this. 100,000 times this.


----------



## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rachelsmama* 
You're right, unfortunately there are some situations where a baby can end up dead because of the crying, and take a bunch of people with him. It's not common, but it can happen, which is why all these absolute statements like "Breastfeeding in a moving car is never safe and is always a bad idea." have so little credibility and are so ineffective at swaying those of us who have seen a driver's skills steadily decline due to distraction as we try every way imaginable to soothe a screaming baby. Because of the enormous forces involved in a collision, even at low speed, I'll put my efforts into avoiding collisions in the first place.

That's very naive IMHO. The blanket statement of "Breastfeeding in a moving car is never safe and is always a bad idea" is supported by all kinds of research. Anyone working with car seat safety or just car safety know this very well. It's also common sense. You may be the worlds greatest driver but you're not alone on the road. You many not make a mistake but someone else may be drunk, asleep at the wheel, get a flat tire, loose control in rain/snow or crash into you while texting/talking on phone/changing radio station, etc.

Kids can and do of course distract us while driving and doing other things. Riding with a child in a lap, regardless of speed, or having an adult without seat belt nursing is always the worst choice. ALWAYS. This is not subjective, it's basic safety. Not understanding this is Someone who can't handle distractions from a child should then not be driving. It's really very simple.

Quote:

Do they collect data on sources of distraction for every crash in Sweden?
In Sweden we do deep studies of accidents involving fatalities of children. Not just some accidents, every single accident. We focus a lot on safety for kids in cars and this is very helpful. We look at doctors reports, police, ambulance, background, car, etc. Greatest conclusion is as usual that rear facing is incredible and it's almost impossible for a child to die or become seriously injured while rear facing. Which is my we keep our kids RF to age 4 or longer.

I'm not sure how deep we go for every single crash which is non-fataland I agree that it could be difficult to find out exactly how distracting a child can be and what really happened in an accident. It can imagine lots of subjective interpretations.

Quote:

The only thing I can't help but think about when I read this though is that if it's truly such a risk to babies to have a driver distracted by them crying and the other people in the car why don't we see more real life evidence of that in Sweden?
_Our research show clearly that drivers are far more distracted when children are in the back seat._ Which is partly why we use the front seat extensively in Sweden for children of all ages. I know that most airbags can not be deactivated in US, like in Europe, but this doesn't change the fact that the front seat is an excellent place for a child as long as airbag is not active. People in US believe front seat is a death trap, regardless of airbag active or not, when it actually offer great safety. This has been proven by research and real life experience many years ago. Again, airbag must be deactivated.

RF in front seat just as safe as the rear regardless if child is rear facing or forward facing due to many factors. Rear facing in front seat with airbag turned off is actually safer than the rear thanks to many factors. Anyway, children are far more calm in front seat which of course make driver less distracted. Driver can see child in peripheral vision and doesn't need to look back all the time. Parents feel calmer since they can see their baby in peripheral vision

KirstenMary summed up nursing with a baby in the car pretty well I think It's not safe and has never been safe. Trying to make up various excuses why it's a good idea just show how difficult it is for parents to understand car seat safety properly.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Wow.

I have a high-needs DS... who needed to nurse every 15 minutes many days... and where I live, it's not uncommon to get stuck in stalled traffic for an hour++ with nowhere to pull off (no exits for miles & have to keep the breakdown lane open for emergency vehicles)...

So yes, I've nursed in the car... almost exclusively in stopped traffic. Obviously we also severely limited car trips, but sometimes there just weren't too many options... Maybe others are comfortable letting their baby cry for an hour while the car just sits motionless but I'm not. We have many many distraction/calming techniques but when he wants to nurse, nothing works besides nursing. I'm suprised so many people think that nursing in the car is absolutely 100% never safe. People get out of their cars in stopped traffic... at least we were still in the car & still buckled, should some highly unlikely (nearly impossible) accident occur... But it sounds like those who are against nursing in the car would also be against ever bringing food or drinks or books or toys or a sweater in the car... I just think that's unrealistic.

(Oh and I do have larger breasts that I could flop over the side...)


----------



## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
Wow.

I have a high-needs DS... who needed to nurse every 15 minutes many days... and where I live, it's not uncommon to get stuck in stalled traffic for an hour++ with nowhere to pull off (no exits for miles & have to keep the breakdown lane open for emergency vehicles)...

So yes, I've nursed in the car... almost exclusively in stopped traffic. Obviously we also severely limited car trips, but sometimes there just weren't too many options... Maybe others are comfortable letting their baby cry for an hour while the car just sits motionless but I'm not. We have many many distraction/calming techniques but when he wants to nurse, nothing works besides nursing. *I'm suprised so many people think that nursing in the car is absolutely 100% never safe.* People get out of their cars in stopped traffic... at least we were still in the car & still buckled, should some highly unlikely (nearly impossible) accident occur... But it sounds like those who are against nursing in the car would also be against ever bringing food or drinks or books or toys or a sweater in the car... I just think that's unrealistic.

(Oh and I do have larger breasts that I could flop over the side...)

Purely anecdotal - but my husband's best friend was stopped in traffic and almost killed when a truck rear ended him. That was almost one year ago, and he is still going through multiple surgeries. According to the insurance company, based on condition of the car, anyone unrestrained in the back seat would have been killed. And imo, comparing removing a baby from a car seat to giving a child a toy or a drink or a book is like comparing an apple and a steak.

It only takes one.time.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KirstenMary* 
Purely anecdotal - but my husband's best friend was stopped in traffic and almost killed when a truck rear ended him. That was almost one year ago, and he is still going through multiple surgeries. According to the insurance company, based on condition of the car, anyone unrestrained in the back seat would have been killed. And imo, comparing removing a baby from a car seat to giving a child a toy or a drink or a book is like comparing an apple and a steak.

It only takes one.time.

I never remove my baby from the car seat. Like I said, I flop a breast over the side. We're both still buckled in at all times & I might lean forward a bit but less even than if I were picking up something off the floor (which I'm sure everyone does while riding in the car at some point...)

I should also mention that my DS was the type to cry 'til he puked & then choke on his puke. So nursing him in the car was safer than letting him cry 'til he choked (and then I WOULD have needed to remove him from the car seat).


----------



## MsVyky (May 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WC_hapamama* 
I'll agree that it's a calculated risk thing. To me, it's less risky for me to nurse my baby with my National Geographic boobies than it is for me to let the baby scream for 20 minutes while we're trying to find a safe place to pull over. Having a stressed out, distracted driver is a much larger risk than me sitting next to the car seat with my boob flopped over the side.

I generally only do it if we're on long car trips, and generally we make frequent stops on those (at least every 2 hours) so I don't end up doing it often.

All of this, minus the National Geographic part.







:

I know when *I'm* driving, and DD is screaming bloody murder in the back seat, I become a bad driver. Being that stressed out is no good for anyone- not the driver, the passengers and all the other people on the road. We JUST got back from a long road trip (16 hours each way), and I did crawl into the back to nurse her until she calmed down on a couple occasions. We did have a bottle with water in it to try first (it was very hot and we have no a/c), but if the screaming didn't stop, I'd nurse her in the seat until we could get into the next town (Pulling over to nurse in the shoulder of a narrow mountain road, IMO is less safe)


----------



## HungryCaterpillar (Nov 17, 2009)

I'm really grateful for this thread. I feel much more educated (about both the arguments for AND against!) about this now.

I nursed my DD in a moving car once, in pretty desperate circumstances. She normally sleeps in the car well during the day, and is happy when she's awake in the car anyway. But we were out past her bedtime, and I just assumed she'd fall asleep. Nope! She got way overtired and was screaming her head off. We pulled over and I nursed her for 30 minutes, and as soon as we started moving again she immediately started screaming again. We had a 90 minute drive to get through and I tried and tried to soothe her other ways, finally I leaned forward and flopped my boob over and let her nurse - fortunately she was asleep within 10 minutes and I could sit properly the rest of the trip. I was totally freaked out the whole time, keeping my eye carefully on the road (same level of attention as if I were the one driving) so I could react quickly if anything scary happened, but I knew what I was doing was a bad idea.

I don't think I'll do it again - at least with this baby, with whom it probably won't be necessary again. (We know about this nighttime-no-sleeping thing now and plan accordingly.)

I also hadn't thought about toys acting as projectiles. DH has a dangling stuffed animal over DD's car seat, I wonder if he should get rid of it. I haven't had any toys for DD in my car in a long time, mostly because I keep forgetting, so I've been giving her a little blanket or a FULL WATER BOTTLE to play with.







I'll stick to the blanket from now on, that and the car seat strap (the one you pull to loosen or tighten the straps) are plenty entertaining for her anyway.


----------



## Paigekitten (Feb 22, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
_Our research show clearly that drivers are far more distracted when children are in the back seat._ Which is partly why we use the front seat extensively in Sweden for children of all ages. I know that most airbags can not be deactivated in US, like in Europe, but this doesn't change the fact that the front seat is an excellent place for a child as long as airbag is not active. People in US believe front seat is a death trap, regardless of airbag active or not, when it actually offer great safety. This has been proven by research and real life experience many years ago. Again, airbag must be deactivated.

This is HUGE, I know my kids are ALWAYS happier in the front seat, and I don't drive with them because even just glancing in the rear view mirror to see why they are screaming is very distracting.


----------

