# Getting a child to put their face in the water



## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

I'm really getting frustrated with this. Neither DD (6), nor DS (4) will put their faces in the water. We have hit a wall in the ability to have them learn how to swim as they refuse to do this. Now, let me clarify that this isn't a 'how to get htem to do it 1 time and they will be fine' sort of thing. DD HAS put her face in the water, she just won't do it consistently, she'll do it once then refuse to do it again, etc.

I've always taken the approach that she will do things when she's ready, but this is the third summer we've belonged to the pool club, this will be her third year of lessons and she has never progressed past the 1st level basically baby lessons. I look around and I see 5 year olds swimming underwater, no problem, my 6 year old is the only one still mostly playing in the baby pool.

And this doesn't help that DS follows suit with DD. When she is saying 'no!' he says 'no!' too even if he might have been ameniable to it in the first place. My children are EXTREMELY stubborn. I emphasize this because most people that feel their kids are stubborn interact with mine and realize how stubborn they really are. When they don't want to do something, it is extremely hard to get them to do it. Outright bribery will only work if it was something they kinda didn't want to do, but when they really do not want to do something, its impossible to talk them into it.

So I just don't know what to do? At what point do I become concerned? Because seriously every other 6 year old I've seen knows how to swim at least in some capacity, will put their face in the water, etc.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

My dd is also extremely stubborn. What I've found is, the only way to get her to do something is to get her _personally motivated_ to do it. For swimming, that might mean swimming with kids that swim better than her--kids she looks up to.

But, honestly, I've known 6 yos who don't put their face in the water. Most do (ime), but not all. Honestly, I think I was one of those kids







. A lot of kids (myself included) learn to swim when they are tall enough to stand easily in the 3' part of the pool and play with the older kids. They start gliding along, knowing they can put their feet down at any time. And, very quickly, they are basically swimming.


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## Super Pickle (Apr 29, 2002)

Do they have goggles? My younger son wouldn't put his face in the water for the longest time; then, one day, he decided to buy a pair of goggles with his birthday money, and the next time we went to the pool, he taught himself to swim underwater.


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## j924 (May 17, 2005)

Are you involved in the lessons? like a mommy and me thing? or is swimming lessons? Also is it a place you are a member and can swim aorund that has lessons or is it strictly go to swimming to get lessons? One thing I thought of is a lot of time my kids will preform better for other people. Maybe if you can take yourself out of the equation and let the instructor take the lead it would help. On teh other hand if it is the lessons that are making you crazy maybe give those up and let your kids play until they are ready to really "learn" to swim. Either way I think you need to take a giant step back. Take teh stand of I don't care if you ever put your face in teh water. Especially if yoru kids are super stubborn. Do you really want a summer full of tension? I hope I don't sound harsh but I can hear your frustration just seething through your post and I'm sure your kids can too. I've felt like this with different things (bike riding was big for me) and it really just isn't worth it. Good luck.


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## moss (Feb 7, 2004)

good googles
play games like fetch the ring, she'll naturally go underwater, and it will be fun for her. my ds also hated to get his face wet (major sensory issues), but this is how he started off--slow and gentle and at his own pace. now he swims like a dolphin along the bottom of the pool
maybe try googling swimming pool games and see if you can find some that your dd would like

i would try hard not to turn the whole thing into a power struggle. swimming should be fun.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

My almost 8 yo won't put his face in the water if that makes you feel any better. He hates getting water in his ears, too, or I'm sure he'd be able to float (he has a good floating build, lol. I almost had him floating on his back, last summer. It was literally just the water in his ears freaking him out). But I have seen an increase in tolerance to water just recently. He started taking showers and letting water go in his ears and on his face. I think it is just a matter of time.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Honestly... I can't see any reason to try and make her do it. You said she will do it once but say no after that. It sounds to me like she really does not like the feeling of having her face underwater, and I honestly can't blame her. I hate putting my face underwater too and avoid it as much as possible. I know two others who are the same way. One person who doesn't even like putting her face under a shower spray, she is one of the better swimmers I know and just doesn't put her face under the want when she's swimming.

Is there another way you can have them learn how to swim?


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Try getting them to blow bubbles in the water. Thats how i was taught.

And i agree with the goggles suggestions too.


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## aydensmama (Jun 2, 2005)

I taught swim lessons during from 16-21ish, and experienced this with a little brother as well

1. ditto on the goggles
2. year round swimming (lessons if you can, and membership to an indoor pool to play if you can't do lessons year round)
3. Always lay them down (considering you do not have ear infection issues) to wash hair in bath. This way the are used water being in their ears on a more regular basis. This may be easier with your younger one... My kids were a little younger, but we would rinse away shampoo lying down and stay down until I was done singing a song. They have to get used to water in their ears and around their cheeks on a year round reg basis.
4. Keep waiting. My sister and I were water bugs. My brother was not. He did not swim until the age of 7- for fear of the water in his face. He also had chronic ear infections so the water in his ears may have felt uncomfortable for him. He started teaching himself to swim like a pp mentioned, when he was old enough to stand in the shallow end. My mom was so confused with it though since me and my sister were swimming at 2-3 yrs of age.

I wouldn't force the issue, but I would designate practice times with them.

Like play for 10 minutes and then we will do 2 practices, or 1 minute of practicing of ________ and then you can play again. Your practices can be kicking one time, or under water another, or blowing bubbles, etc. Sometime they don't want to practice, but I try to intice them with a fun game or pool toy after the practicing.

Good luck!


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

Thanks for your responses. In response to several: Yes, she has goggles, yes she can stand with no problems in the shallow end of the pool (so can my son, they have both been able to touch for years), she sees tons of other kids swimming, and the children she looks up to the most can do things like dive in the deep end. She will not pick up rings, she will only pick them up with her feet. We've done blowing bubbles too, she knows that is supposed to lead to putting her face under so she refuses to even do that.

She has a similar resistance to any kind of swimming lesson. I've tried to teach her to swim with her head out of the water, she won't even let me hold her up while she tries, she flips out. I feel like getting her past the having her face under the water thing is going to make the rest of it easier as she won't have a fear of going under. The fear of going under or getting her eyes wet seems to be the main blocking factor here. Even in the level 1 swim lessons the first week they start having the kids going underwater and my daughter is already behind the class by session #2.

We've had lessons with me there, we've had lessons without me. As for why, I guess because I feel the longer she goes without doing it, the more likely it will become a seriously phobia and she will miss out on a huge part of childhood. We live 100 yards from the pool and we spend every day there in the summer. She already has problems making friends at the pool because she doesn't swim, all the kids her age go into the big pool and swim all around. In fact, most of the kids her age are on the swim team diving off the blocks. She is in the baby pool with the little kids. Even my son is getting too big for the baby pool peer-wise.


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aydensmama* 
3. Always lay them down (considering you do not have ear infection issues) to wash hair in bath. This way the are used water being in their ears on a more regular basis. This may be easier with your younger one... My kids were a little younger, but we would rinse away shampoo lying down and stay down until I was done singing a song. They have to get used to water in their ears and around their cheeks on a year round reg basis.

She does do this, on her own in the bath. It's definitely not an ear issue, its an eye thing. The most progress I've made is that *sometimes* when she gets water on her eyes (like being splashed) she will not run screaming to me for a towel (which my son still does) and will sometimes wipe her eyes with her hands and continue playing.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

The more you push it the more likely it will become a serious phobia because it makes it something she has no control over.

Have you had her wearing a life jack while encouraging her to put her face under? It might provide a little more stability for her. If she has a fear of going under, then asking her to put her face under the water is like asking someone with a fear of dogs to pet fido. The only way she is going to overcome the fear without making it worse is babysteps and in her own time with her own control over the matter.


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## LizLizard (Jul 16, 2007)

I'm 34 and still can't put my face in the water regularly, despite MANY swimming lessons. It's not a phobia or anything, it's just very uncomfortable to me and I prefer to swim with my face out of the water. I have the same eye issue, getting water in my eyes is like having a thousand ice picks stabbing me. Even in the shower I have to have a washcloth or towel nearby, just in case. It's just my physiology, and it hasn't changed in the 34 years I've been on earth, so I deal with it.

That being said, I LOVE being in the water, I've taken enough swim classes to know how to be safe, and I'm sure if it was a life-threatening situation I could get my eyes wet a little.







It's just more fun for me to swim the way I want to do it.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Underwater camera

Some kind of sensory integration therapy

Ignore it

?


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
The more you push it the more likely it will become a serious phobia because it makes it something she has no control over.

Just because I want to find a way for her to get over it doesn't not mean I'm pushing her. Obviously she's 6 hasn't been pushed thus far and if I wanted to just 'push' her I wouldn't need advice from MDC. I was hoping I could find some ways that were a little different from the typical advice to get her through this.


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## LuckyMommaToo (Aug 14, 2003)

MightyMoo, here in Socal, young kids often do a two-week intensive course -- either private or very small. So it's 1-3 kids for 45 minutes a day, 10 days in a row. I"d probably look into something like that, complete with bribes, if it's a possibility. I can understand, that, at 6, you really want your DD to conquer her fear. There are instructors here who specialize in working with kids like that, and they're quite gentle and successful.

I think a lot of repetition quickly (every day) is key. I'm also not averse to bribes, because she really sees it as something unpleasant, so she may need an incentive.

best of luck,
-e


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
The more you push it the more likely it will become a serious phobia because it makes it something she has no control over.

I'm not sure this is straightforward. Isn't exposure / desensitization part of most therapies for phobias and sensory integration stuff? At any rate where would come the phobia if the child has never been in a situation where she was afraid. Isn't it more like the OP said, stubbornness?

PP reminded me of ISR. Maybe that would be a good approach for a reluctant 6 year old.

Sometimes kids do not want to do stuff because they have adopted a less optimal, perfectionistic type mindset that says if I can't do something as good as the other guy I won't do it at all.


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
I'm not sure this is straightforward. Isn't exposure / desensitization part of most therapies for phobias and sensory integration stuff? At any rate where would come the phobia if the child has never been in a situation where she was afraid. Isn't it more like the OP said, stubbornness?

PP reminded me of ISR. Maybe that would be a good approach for a reluctant 6 year old.

Sometimes kids do not want to do stuff because they have adopted a less optimal, perfectionistic type mindset that says if I can't do something as good as the other guy I won't do it at all.

This last sentence is my daughter to a T! She asked for months and months for a two wheel pedal bike (she had a pedaless one) and she got it for her birthday. She tried to do it and since she couldn't just do it immediately she didn't want to do it at all, and got very angry and didn't want the bike. I had to work with her a bit to be persistent in trying in order to do it, all in all it only took her a few days to be a pro on the bike, probably faster than most kids.

I think the problem is a combination of those. There is some fear there, certainly, but she is a naturally cautious kid. She does not just jump into things headlong. There is a frustration with imperfection, not being able to do it on the first try. A less stubborn child would allow those two to be overcome and try it with some encouragement, my child digs her heels in and refuses.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

The exposure therapy is never used against someone's will thought. The people who do that choose to do it themselves not because someone is trying to make them do it.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
The exposure therapy is never used against someone's will thought. The people who do that choose to do it themselves not because someone is trying to make them do it.

I suspect that kids therapy is quite possibly not always without their being under duress or "strongly encouraged".

OP, I really think it will just happen naturally if you leave her be. You said she is getting better about splashes on her face. The same thing is happening with my ds. My ds has very little opportunity to be in a pool (um, once or twice a year?) and I can see his comfort level progressing very nicely without doing anything (though I did try a number of things people suggested at one time or another, lol.)


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## fek&fuzz (Jun 19, 2005)

When I took swimming lessons, we practiced putting our face in the water with a big tupperware/dishpan thing. They put water in it, put a plastic gumby type doll on the bottom and we had to grab it with out mouth.

Worked for us, although now when I swim I prefer to have my head out of the water.


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## Ceili (Nov 21, 2001)

My 5 year old only recently started putting his face in the water on request at swim lessons. We started with a big bowl of water and had him put his face in several times a day and after a couple days of that he started being okay with doing it in the baby pool and while sitting on the steps. He likes being at the pool so we make staying there contingent on him putting his face in every so often, every 30 minutes or so I ask him to put his face 3 times in a row or it's time to go. So far we haven't had to leave early. You might also try smaller diving toys, something harder to pick up with your feet. I use to dive for change when I was a kid.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I would also do an intensive swim lesson (a couple of weeks- every day) and then keep them up year round. I would resort to private if I had to.

I hear you on the frustration with obstinate children









-Angela


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

Hi!

My kids are 6 and 4.5 and this is their first year of swim lessons. They are in Level 1. You mention that at the lessons of Level 1 where your kids go, they are putting their faces in the water within two weeks. That seems pretty fast to me. I know that my kids, and the other kids in their class, just finished week 2 of lessons (going 4 days a week), and they are only just now putting their mouths and noses into the water at the same time. Not the whole face. The really slow progression is working really well for my very stubborn and fearful dd. So, have you tried lessons elsewhere? (I know it seems silly to do that when you live so close to a pool already!)

Also, she just seems more _ready_ this year. Last year, there was no way she would even have gone to a group lesson. This year, she is enjoying it.

We also spend a lot of time outside lessons at the pools just playing around. We go to two kinds of pools:

1. The indoor pool that has a shallow end, but it's over the heads of both kids. So dh and I hang out with the kids while they use swim noodles to paddle around the pool. We also catch them when they jump in. We like them to have the chance to play in "deep" water with help.

2. An outdoor zero-depth pool that only goes up to 2.5 feet deep. They can both stand, so they feel safe, but they also both LOVE practicing to doggy paddle around the pool, knowing that they can put their feet down if they need to.

Again, this is the FIRST year we have been at this stage. It is sometimes frustrating to see way younger kids jumping off diving boards into 12 feet of water, but we're just letting dd take her time and do it at her own pace. We definitely want both kids to know how to swim, but what seems most important to us right now is 1) fun swim lessons at the right pace and 2) enjoying the water as a family.

Good luck!


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## Beppie (Oct 24, 2005)

My first reaction to your question was, if they don't want to do it, don't try to force them! Maybe it's just not something they enjoy. You can't make them swim. Why not redirect their energy to some other activity that they enjoy? If my dds did not want to put their faces in the water, well then, I would respect that. I wouldn't push it. Plus, the more you push, the more they will resist. (Like music lessons, or anything else parents try to get their kids to do!) Just my humble opinion.


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

My children are just-turned 6 and almost 4. From what you wrote, your daughter sounds similar to my 6yo son, although I will take your word for it that she might be a degree of stubborn I don't know about!

We have made some recent breakthroughs in swimming, although they are both far from swimming independently. Here is what has worked:

1. Swim school with face-up first philosophy. This means that kids start by learning how to float on their backs, then backstroke. Then they'll progress to 5 strokes on back, flip to front, 5 strokes front, flip back, etc. My son is getting the hang of backstroke without support, and his confidence in feeling his body float and propel through the water is helping him get excited about learning how to swim better and better.

2. This school also has a no-level system. This means that classes have 3 kids each. The instructor works with each kid individually and one at a time. Age does not have to correlate with level. This system has helped my son especially not feel rushed.

3. Separating the younger from the older. I had the kids in lessons at the same time but was able to request separate teachers. This helped my daughter progress at her pace without taking "scared" cues from her brother.

4. Practicing in the bathtub. Sounds like you've tried this one. But combined with #3, it got us a lot of progress. My daughter soon was putting on goggles and spending 5-6 seconds underwater in the tub. My son observed, and a few days later wanted to try it too. Soon he was proudly staying under longer than my daughter. (Side note: I did not set this up to be sibling rivalry--it progressed naturally from giving my daughter space to do it, her getting successful, and my son wanting to do it too).

We're at the point now that my son will willingly do bobs while he's waiting his turn at lessons, but he is hesitant to swim on his belly with his face in the water. That's his next big hurdle and I'm hoping he'll be ready to try by the end of the summer.

I hope there might be a helpful nugget in here. I learned how to swim as an adult and feel I missed out on a certain amount of summer fun, and I understand not wanting the same for one's child!


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

I'm not understanding why she's still mostly staying in the baby pool. And please know that while it may be the norm at your pool, the majority of six-year-olds aren't able to dive in the deep end of the pool.

My kids have the Swimways Power Swimr Systems and they love them. They give the kids the arm movement they need to learn to swim, are able to move to their stomachs and backs, and have nine removeable foam pads that you gradually remove as the child doesn't need the additional support. They have worked wonders with my kids. Your DD wouldn't have to worry about whether she puts her face in the water and she could be in the big pool where she can be with older children.

http://www.amazon.com/Swim-Ways-Swim...ref=pd_sim_t_2


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## lovemysunshine (Jul 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I would also do an intensive swim lesson (a couple of weeks- every day) and then keep them up year round. I would resort to private if I had to.

I hear you on the frustration with obstinate children









-Angela

I didn't quite finish the thread, but this is what I was going to say as well. I was having a really hard time learning to swim as a kid and my mom finally put me in private lessons. That was how I finally started swimming. I didn't like putting my face in the water (still don't really) and the group lessons were getting me nowhere.

Maybe also ask her what she doesn't like about it and go from there? For me, I hate hate having water in my nose and it stings my eyes too.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I don't think you should worry. My friend had her son in lessons for two days a week for a year and a half before he was comfortable enough with the water to move up beyond the lowest level. If they aren't swimming all year round they may just not see a point to doing something they aren't comfortable with even if they have done it three summers in a row. I suggest that you just let them play in the kid pool and interact with the children there while you sit back and let them experience the water without any pressure at all. I don't think you should even raise the issue with them or encourage them one way or another except to celebrate with them if they seem to want you to.


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

My kids both hate putting their faces in water...we tried group lessons and gave up when they were younger. This year they asked to learn to swim, so I'm taking them to private lessons.

I don't think pushing helps, wait until it's their idea and keep trying. I have a friend who didn't learn to swim until she was in college. She's a good swimmer now.


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## j924 (May 17, 2005)

Does the big kid pool allow life vests? It seems like one of your major fears is your dc being stuck in the baby pool with no friends. If they had a life jacket on they could get into the big pool without really needing to "swim". You would have to be right there with them but that sounds like more fun all around.


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *j924* 
Does the big kid pool allow life vests? It seems like one of your major fears is your dc being stuck in the baby pool with no friends. If they had a life jacket on they could get into the big pool without really needing to "swim". You would have to be right there with them but that sounds like more fun all around.

Unfortunately no, our pool does not allow flotation devices, toys or swim aids of any kind.







I understand why they do it, for safety as the pool has a lot of kids and flotation aids block the lifeguards ability to see well and can give kids and parents false confidence and the kids may end up over their heads, etc.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

Honestly, I'd find a different pool. That's crazy that even coast-guard approved life vests wouldn't be allowed. I'd take my family, and my money, somewhere else.


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Polliwog* 
Honestly, I'd find a different pool. That's crazy that even coast-guard approved life vests wouldn't be allowed. I'd take my family, and my money, somewhere else.

It's not, because they would have kids whose parents figure they can just strap a life vest on them and then not have to supervise them properly.

There is no finding a different pool. We literally abut the pool property and I grew up spending my summer's at the pool, I like the community, our friends belong, etc and I completely understand their reasoning.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

Well then, I guess she's in the baby pool for the foreseeable future. However, I've been to tons of community and public pools and have never heard of such a restrictive policy. Parents just supervise their kids.

I get the distance and community thing. I could throw a rock and almost hit our neighborhood pool. I can see the kids swimming from my window. But if my elementary school child had to stay in a baby pool, I'd find another option. Or just continue to let her play in the shallow end. Eventually, she'll either put her face in the water or come up with another solution.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

Ughhh, I'm right there with you. My six year old could do under water flips last year. This year she won't even put her face in the water. This weekend her sister threw sand at her and it was dangerously close to her eye. I kept telling her to just put her face in the water, it will come off, but she flipped out at the suggestion. Finally she did it and she didn't die, but she wouldn't do it again.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Honestly... I can't see any reason to try and make her do it. You said she will do it once but say no after that. It sounds to me like she really does not like the feeling of having her face underwater, and I honestly can't blame her. I hate putting my face underwater too and avoid it as much as possible. I know two others who are the same way. One person who doesn't even like putting her face under a shower spray, she is one of the better swimmers I know and just doesn't put her face under the want when she's swimming.

This is what I was thinking while reading the OP. I learned to swim a long time ago. I don't do it very much anymore, for a variety of reasons, but I love to swim. I _hate_ putting my face in the water. I also don't like putting my face in the shower spray, and avoid it if I can. I've always been like this, and I doubt it's going to change. I just hate having water in my face.

OP: I sympathize. I have the same thing with dd (also 6). She won't put her face in and is at the same level in swimming after a year of lessons, because she has to put her face in to move on. It's unfortunate, because she loves being in the water...but I don't think this will change any time soon. Maybe one day, she'll want to do something in the water enough that she'll be willing to do it. I don't know. I forced myself to put my face in for some lessons when I was about 10, but I hated it, and stopped as soon as I passed the class.


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## j924 (May 17, 2005)

"Unfortunately no, our pool does not allow flotation devices, toys or swim aids of any kind. I understand why they do it, for safety as the pool has a lot of kids and flotation aids block the lifeguards ability to see well and can give kids and parents false confidence and the kids may end up over their heads, etc. "

Do they allow kids who aren't quie swimming to go in with an adult or teen? Couldyou get a babysitter who could hang at the pool with you? Or maybe you and dp go togethher? I know I am harping on getting her into the big pool but I think kids learn quicker when they are immersed in an activity rather than with lessons. If they could just fool around with you and dp or babysitter it would facilitate an easier transition into face wetting, they could socialize with kids their own age and you wouldn't be bored out of your skull! Good luck I spent many years in various stages of swim readiness.


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Polliwog* 
Well then, I guess she's in the baby pool for the foreseeable future. However, I've been to tons of community and public pools and have never heard of such a restrictive policy. Parents just supervise their kids.

I get the distance and community thing. I could throw a rock and almost hit our neighborhood pool. I can see the kids swimming from my window. But if my elementary school child had to stay in a baby pool, I'd find another option. Or just continue to let her play in the shallow end. Eventually, she'll either put her face in the water or come up with another solution.

It's not a community or public pool, its a private club. Non-profit, owned by the members. As a result they have different rules, I'm sure some liability comes into play, and I don't know, its possibly a rule imposed by their liability insurers.

I think I've miscommunicated. She CAN go in the big pool, there is no restriction on her going in. (Well, they do restrict kids going to the deep end unless they have passed the 'deep end test', but that's only 1/3 of the pool) She PREFERS to stay in the baby pool, which isn't helping her learn to swim.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *j924* 
Do they allow kids who aren't quie swimming to go in with an adult or teen? Couldyou get a babysitter who could hang at the pool with you? Or maybe you and dp go togethher? I know I am harping on getting her into the big pool but I think kids learn quicker when they are immersed in an activity rather than with lessons. If they could just fool around with you and dp or babysitter it would facilitate an easier transition into face wetting, they could socialize with kids their own age and you wouldn't be bored out of your skull! Good luck I spent many years in various stages of swim readiness.

Oh, the kids who aren't swimming can go in into the big pool, the shallow end is quite shallow and there are lifeguards right there, she can go in by herself (or with me obviously). They have steps and it is an L shaped pool - a typical 25 yard, 6 lane pool, with a shallow end attached in an L, the shallow end of the L goes from 3 feet (though more like 2.5) to 4.5 feet, the shallow end of the 25 meter / lane portion (it doesn't have lanes all the time), is 5 feet. So, she can go into the shallow part of the shallow end just fine. But playing with kids who already know how to swim, they quickly swim over to somewhere she can't go. (again, not because there is a restriction, but because its over her head or otherwise beyond her comfort level) It doesn't help that she is a shy kid, who doesn't make friends easily, so now all the kids her age are even less accessible because they swim better, etc.

We did our first day of lessons today. About minute 5 they wanted her to put her face in the water, which she wouldn't do, and about 90% of the class did. She didn't flip out though and did stay with the lesson, so we'll see how she fares with this round of lessons.


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

Quote:

We did our first day of lessons today. About minute 5 they wanted her to put her face in the water, which she wouldn't do, and about 90% of the class did. She didn't flip out though and did stay with the lesson, so we'll see how she fares with this round of lessons.
I'm crossing my fingers that it goes well for her this session!


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

I have a question for anyone who can answer. A couple of people here have stated that kids can't move up a level until they are willing to put their face in the water. So my question is, why is it so important that it's a manditory part of the lessons?

My friend who doesn't like putting her face underwater has never had impede her ability to swim. Sure she doesn't have "proper form" when she does a breast stroke, but she can do it all the same with out sticking her face in the water. If anything, the avoidance has made it easier to learn how to stay up because the last thing she wants is to go under.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
I have a question for anyone who can answer. A couple of people here have stated that kids can't move up a level until they are willing to put their face in the water. So my question is, why is it so important that it's a manditory part of the lessons?

My friend who doesn't like putting her face underwater has never had impede her ability to swim. Sure she doesn't have "proper form" when she does a breast stroke, but she can do it all the same with out sticking her face in the water. If anything, the avoidance has made it easier to learn how to stay up because the last thing she wants is to go under.

I wish I knew. I'd consider signing up ds for lessons if I knew they'd be flexible. As it stands there is no point in wasting money on it.

I only do breaststroke with my face out of the water or backstroke if I can help it myself. Those aren't as fast as other strokes so knowing other strokes could be useful for emergency situations. But dc wouldn't be training to be a life guard, yet.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Far as I know the only other useful stroke is the side stroke, which you don't put your face in the water for anyway.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Because all strokes aren't taught at the same time. IME breast and side strokes aren't taught for quite awhile. In early levels all focus is on the crawl, which is hard to do without putting your face in.

-Angela


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
I have a question for anyone who can answer. A couple of people here have stated that kids can't move up a level until they are willing to put their face in the water. So my question is, why is it so important that it's a manditory part of the lessons?

My friend who doesn't like putting her face underwater has never had impede her ability to swim. Sure she doesn't have "proper form" when she does a breast stroke, but she can do it all the same with out sticking her face in the water. If anything, the avoidance has made it easier to learn how to stay up because the last thing she wants is to go under.

The short answer is because they are teaching them to swim. That doesn't mean to stay afloat or doggie paddle, that means to be able to do all four strokes - freestyle, breast, back and butterfly properly, which honestly most people don't really do.

Our club swim lessons uses the red cross levels: http://www.slocountyparks.org/progra...elschart04.pdf

You'll notice, Level 1 is submerge face and level 2 is submerge head. I've put DD in Level 2, because at our club, level 1 is full of much younger kids (some as little as 18 months or 2 years) with their moms. It tends to be more chaotic as a result, so I wanted her in a level with her peers without parents at least. I'll probably have her come to the level 1 classes with DS too though.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mightymoo* 
The short answer is because they are teaching them to swim. That doesn't mean to stay afloat or doggie paddle, that means to be able to do all four strokes - freestyle, breast, back and butterfly properly, which honestly most people don't really do.

I agree that that's probably the reasoning. It doesn't always apply, though. I've watched the lessons at the pool my kids go to, and the next couple of levels don't really do anything that requires putting one's face in, except that you have to do it, just to get there.

I sometimes wonder if dd1 will continue with lessons or not. I learned all the strokes, but I don't really use them. I honestly can't even remember the last time I did a proper front crawl...can't keep my face dry...


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

My DS just turned 6 and he is still working on putting his face/head in the water, too. I signed him up for swimming lessons with the city 2 years ago and they dunked him (in the teacher's arms) during the first class... he refused to even get in the water for the next two years.







:

He had shown some interest in swimming this year so I signed him up for lessons at the YMCA. The teachers are fantastic, he LOVES it, and thankfully they are not forcing him to put his head in the water. They are encouraging him to do it at his own pace. He's voluntarily dunked his whole head underwater for a few seconds a couple of times, so i think we are on our way to him progressing past this particular issue.

FWIW, I agree that putting your head in the water and learning the (especially) the crawl is the point of learning to swim. Once you can do the basic swimming strokes you are free to swim as you see fit. I don't personally put my head under too much because I wear contacts and don't like goggles but I could do it if necessary.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mightymoo* 
The short answer is because they are teaching them to swim. That doesn't mean to stay afloat or doggie paddle, that means to be able to do all four strokes - freestyle, breast, back and butterfly properly, which honestly most people don't really do.

Our club swim lessons uses the red cross levels: http://www.slocountyparks.org/progra...elschart04.pdf

You'll notice, Level 1 is submerge face and level 2 is submerge head. I've put DD in Level 2, because at our club, level 1 is full of much younger kids (some as little as 18 months or 2 years) with their moms. It tends to be more chaotic as a result, so I wanted her in a level with her peers without parents at least. I'll probably have her come to the level 1 classes with DS too though.

Except that I know someone who does three of the four (never learned the butterfly) and doesn't put her face in the water for any of them. So why is it manditory? I can understand if your kid plans on being an olypic swimmer. But for just plain, learning to swim I don't see the need.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

If, for any particular child, the parent thinks it should not be taught, they should ask for an exception or get them privates with their own curriculum.

If you look at the Red Cross #3 level from the level descriptions posted, you can see that having a child who will not submerge in a level 3 class would not pass.

If you won't submerge, you are a very restricted swimmer. If you can but just don't want to most of the time, that's something different.

I would think that regular, face in and out of the water swimming practice would be important for airway / breath control necessary in an emergency.


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## darcytrue (Jan 23, 2009)

One thing that helped our oldest child was putting him in a shower at home. He started taking showers around age 6/7 and he too had a huge fear of getting water in his face so showers were a real tough thing for him at first. Once he got the hang of it he finally learned to swim very well by the time he was 8. He was a later swimmer, but he's great at it now.









My DD just turned 7 and after many, many unsuccessful swim lessons at the Y (they always use belts and noodles and never seem to push her







) she has taught herself to swim underwater at home. She went from being afraid to walk in to water to jumping in, going under, swimming backwards and just having a ball in the water.







Now I just need to get her signed up for more lessons so she can work on her skills. I plan to go through the public pool system in our city since they make them swim without vests, belts or noodles.







That's what my DD needed in order to finally do it, nothing else on her body to hold her up. All those vests and floating devices were holding her back.


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## Mpenny1001 (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Except that I know someone who does three of the four (never learned the butterfly) and doesn't put her face in the water for any of them. So why is it manditory? I can understand if your kid plans on being an olypic swimmer. But for just plain, learning to swim I don't see the need.

I think comfort with having one's face in the water is crucial for water safety, which is a big part of the swim lessons. It's not just to teach people how to do the strokes and dive off the diving board, it's too make sure you can get yourself to safety if you happen to find yourself in an emergency situation in the water. If a child (or adult) happens to fall in the water, you don't want them so uncomfortable about having water in their face that they aren't able to navigate their way to safety.


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## beka1977 (Aug 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mightymoo* 
This last sentence is my daughter to a T! She asked for months and months for a two wheel pedal bike (she had a pedaless one) and she got it for her birthday. She tried to do it and since she couldn't just do it immediately she didn't want to do it at all, and got very angry and didn't want the bike. I had to work with her a bit to be persistent in trying in order to do it, all in all it only took her a few days to be a pro on the bike, probably faster than most kids.

I think the problem is a combination of those. There is some fear there, certainly, but she is a naturally cautious kid. She does not just jump into things headlong. There is a frustration with imperfection, not being able to do it on the first try. A less stubborn child would allow those two to be overcome and try it with some encouragement, my child digs her heels in and refuses.


Is it possible that your daughter is reluctant to try in front of so many people that she "knows"? I struggle with being a perfectionist, and I find being a beginner to be very difficult for me. I hate learning things in front of other people, especially other people I know or admire! I was like this as a child and always wanted to learn/practice/try by myself.

Could you take her to private lessons at a different pool until she is more comfortable? Or go to the pool super early when there is no one else there?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
If, for any particular child, the parent thinks it should not be taught, they should ask for an exception or get them privates with their own curriculum.

If you look at the Red Cross #3 level from the level descriptions posted, you can see that having a child who will not submerge in a level 3 class would not pass.

If you won't submerge, you are a very restricted swimmer. If you can but just don't want to most of the time, that's something different.

I would think that regular, face in and out of the water swimming practice would be important for airway / breath control necessary in an emergency.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mpenny1001* 
I think comfort with having one's face in the water is crucial for water safety, which is a big part of the swim lessons. It's not just to teach people how to do the strokes and dive off the diving board, it's too make sure you can get yourself to safety if you happen to find yourself in an emergency situation in the water. If a child (or adult) happens to fall in the water, you don't want them so uncomfortable about having water in their face that they aren't able to navigate their way to safety.

Doesn't really jive with my experiences thought...


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## 1growingsprout (Nov 14, 2005)

PRIVATE LESSONS..... stop the group lessons and put your incredibly shy, and determined DD in private lessons. ONE on ONE with a good teacher.... while she may never put her face in the water she will learn to be safe in the water. You may need to do some searching and interviewing for a private teacher to meet your needs but honestly, from what you say your dd shouldnt be in a group lesson at this point, they are not meeting her needs.

FWIW my almost 9 yr old DS wont put his face in the water consciously but will jump in the pool and do 'cannon balls' all day long.... go figure...He is never going to the olympics but he also knows his limits and basic strokes.
Now DD 6 will only swim under water









Needless to say, when we do lessons they are private.


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## reezley (May 27, 2006)

MusicianDad, I'm with you. I don't see the need to push the issue, and I agree with the other posters who say that the group lessons are just not the right fit. I took swimming lessons at camp - and every year at the same camp, at age 6, 7, 8, 9, didn't matter, I started right at the beginner level. I hated putting my face/head in the water. Mostly a nose and ears thing for me. Bobs were my nightmare! Anyway, enough about me... anyway I can swim and stay afloat fine without putting my face in!

Private lessons sound like a good idea - if I had the option back then I think I would have liked that.


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beka1977* 
Is it possible that your daughter is reluctant to try in front of so many people that she "knows"? I struggle with being a perfectionist, and I find being a beginner to be very difficult for me. I hate learning things in front of other people, especially other people I know or admire! I was like this as a child and always wanted to learn/practice/try by myself.

Could you take her to private lessons at a different pool until she is more comfortable? Or go to the pool super early when there is no one else there?

It's possible. Although she doesn't really know the other kids, its really just me, but there are a lot of people there, between the kids and their parents, older kids waiting for the next set of lessons, etc. Its possible this is part of the problem.

I am not opposed to private lessons, I think it comes down to the cost. I know her, one or two private lessons is not going to solve the problem, she would probably need a lot, and so I think where I'm hesitant is that it would be worth the cost ot me if I knew it would help her, but I hate to waste a lot of money only to get through it all and not be any better off, kwim?

The group lessons we are doing right now are free as part of our membership to this pool club, so stopping them doesn't save money I could put toward private lessons unfortunately. I am thinking that will be my next step. I'll relax and see how this summer goes, and if in August she doesn't seem to be making any progress, I'll look for an instructor we can do private lessons with.

I should clarify too that she isn't shy in the typical way you (or at least I) think of the word. She can just take a while to warm up, she is comfortable in unfamiliar situations, but she won't say much. She is shy in that she doesn't go up to kids and just make friends, but she doesn't have fear or panic around the idea, she just doesn't do it. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense. My point is, perhaps the group situation is not ideal for her to try things for the first time, but she is certainly not uncomfortable in that situation, because when she is not happy, she does not participate - she is not a kid who goes along with the flow even when they don't want to.


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## seriosa (Apr 2, 2009)

Might you consider that maybe swimming is just not for her? Even though it works so well for the rest of your family? Even though, of course, being able to swim is much better than not being able to? My DH has a water phobia. No water on his face, hates even shower spray. He took lessons and lessons as a child, even volontarily as a teen, because he did really want to learn. But the moment he gets water in his eyes, around mouth & nose, he just freezes up. He's brave enough now to splash in thigh- to waist- high waves with DS. Even go into the shallow end of a swimming pool with him. But that's as far as he will go. I understand that with your neighbourhood situation this is not an ideal perspective, but maybe you could consider some sort of "plan B": what great childhood summer experiences can your daughter have out of water?


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