# Body Scanners at Airports



## treegardner (May 28, 2009)

I don't want to turn this into a debate about the body scanners, but I am trying to figure out what to do about this when we fly to Boston in April. DS will be 2.5 then. I really don't like the idea of doing the scan for myself, and I REALLY don't like the idea of it being done to DS. You are allowed to opt out, but then must complete an "enhanced" pat down. What are my options for DS? Will he have to have a pat down as well? How will that even work? If anyone has flown recently can give me some details that would be great.


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

I just flew out of Atlanta and LAX, neither used those....just plain old detectors. Are you sure it is even available at your airport, or that they are even using it if they have it?

"Passengers can refuse screening by the machines and receive a pat-down search by a security officer, screening by a metal detector, or both, the TSA says."

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/2...ans13_ST_N.htm


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## treegardner (May 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2cutiekitties* 
I just flew out of Atlanta and LAX, neither used those....just plain old detectors. Are you sure it is even available at your airport, or that they are even using it if they have it?

"Passengers can refuse screening by the machines and receive a pat-down search by a security officer, screening by a metal detector, or both, the TSA says."

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/2...ans13_ST_N.htm

I'm in San Diego and I know we have them, they did a big news story about them when they first put them in. I guess I'm not sure which is worse, and I really don't like the idea of having to subject my child to either one.


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## annie89 (Nov 2, 2010)

please can anyone provide me tips to keep my family healthy and safe.


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## CourtBChase (Sep 11, 2006)

I will double check with my FIL who was a screener for the TSA until recently, but several years ago I lost my license while on a trip out of state, so I had to fly home without any ID. In order to do that, I told the airline at check-in and they flagged my ticket for "special screening". In practice that meant I was pulled aside and they passed the wand over me, patted my clothes to check for anything suspicious and if I had brought a bag (we had my husband carry my bag, since he had ID) they would have gone through it. It honestly did not feel very invasive. I don't know if this is the same as the "enhanced" patdown, but I would guess it is.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

I won't go through the screener nor will I allow my children. While it has been deemed that he overall amount of radiation is safe, from what I'm reading there are questions as to whether that amount of radiation is safe on the skin, since that is what is primarily exposed (the skin).

At least for now, there are both the regular and the enhanced scanners at most airports, so you have an option unless they pick you out for enhanced screening. In that case I will go for the enhanced pat down, provided it is with a TSA agent of the same gender.

Aside from the radiation, the other reason I won't do the screening is for modesty purposes. You really can see everything on the screen, and since they cannot guarantee that the screener is female it is against my personal moral beliefs to allow another male to see that much of my body, even if he can't ID who I am. So there is no way I will do it.

And I figure I have a high chance of being called otu for "enhanced screening" unfortuantely. Last time we flew out of our local airport I was pulled aside for pat down because I was wearing a long skirt. I typically wear long skirts, especially when traveling (they are way more comfy IMO), so I wouldn't be surprised.


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## outlier (Sep 29, 2008)

Boston-Logan airport has them. I flew through an airport with them this summer when I was pregnant and opted out of the scanner. The pat down consisted of a female agent running her gloved hands palm-down over all non-awkward surfaces and the backs of her hands over areas like my bra and butt. It was quick and not that bad. I have no idea what their policy is for children. Maybe you can call the airport and ask?

You may want to read this article about TSA's new enhanced pat down procedures being used in Boston: http://www.bostonherald.com/business...icleid=1276131.

Edited to add: Oops, I just noticed that article was archived. If you do a search for "enhanced pat down tsa" you should find more information.


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## nia82 (May 6, 2008)

I avoid them, I just was confronted with this decision last week out of Denver, they now have one (at least at the side of security I went through). I instead switched over to the line with the old detectors, no big deal. (I'm pregnant and never would allow that scanner! It is xray after all!)

In the future, if they start using body scanners only (if!), I will opt for a pat-down for my children and me. It's quick and easy from what I read. I had a WAY worse pat-down in 2006 in Frankfurt. All flights to the US had special screening status, which included normal metal detector and then pat-down by a female officer though, and she stuck her hands in funny places (I remember thinking, is she trying to get fluid samples or what!)... I'd still opt for Mrs.-Touchy's pat-down over xrays and the potential issue of a strange MAN seeing my naked body or even worse, my children's bodies!. Nope, not cool.


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## MommaKitten21 (May 12, 2009)

I just found this article on yahoo when I went to check my mail....

I know this doesn't relieve you at all, but perhaps having a young child in tow would make them a little less "rough" about the whole thing?

I know my two year old would freak if he had to go through something like this. Surely they have different procedures when children are involved, right? I mean, that's common sense to me!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Opt-Ou...11705.html?x=0


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

I would prefer a body scan for my ds vs. him being touched all over by a stranger.

He runs around naked at the beach sometimes, so seeing an all blue image of his body for 3 seconds is not a big deal at all to me. Having someone touch him all over is far more creepy to me.

I fly a ton, at all different airports and so far, all have had regular metal detectors at least as an option, so we have only done those. I would just look for a metal detector line and go there instead of the body scan.

ETA: ds has never ever had any kind of x-ray, so an exposure once in a rare while isnt going to hurt him.


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

so are you guys sure that everyone has a viable option to say no to the full body scanners? I find those things very scary- and now that I have a baby- the thought of dealing with that might be enough for me to opt out of a trip! But if I knew I could refuse it that would be better.


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## MommaKitten21 (May 12, 2009)

You certainly do have a right to say no and opt for the pat down. However, it seems to vary by airport as to how you will be treated for opting out. That article I posted seemed to treat that guy negatively. My dad flies a few times a week for business, and he opts out. He said he has never once been treated any different or thought people were being too rough or anything. He said he's never had a problem.

It seems like it varies by location, and the mood of the TSA people


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## nia82 (May 6, 2008)

I would agree it depends on location and mood... Some personnel are really nice to families. In Detroit and Frankfurt they smiled and made faces for DS, in Denver they are all business and in Chicago they were horrible. Overall I have heard the worst stories for TSA and immigration from Chicago O'Hare.


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## spargel (Jun 2, 2010)

I ended up in the full body scan line at the Atlanta airport. It's not fully implemented - just in one small part. I refused and it was kind of a pain in the butt. I had to wait several minutes while they tracked down someone to do it and she was fairly surly. The pat down I got was probably the most thorough one I've ever received...I kind of wanted a shower afterwards









Despite that, I'll still opt out every time. I think naked xrays are creepy and I don't feel that I need to expose myself to any extra radiation despite the fact that they claim it's completely safe, even for pregnant people. I don't see any long term studies published on safety and since I'm personally not a threat, I think it's silly for me to go through the machine, particularly when it's only partially implemented (perhaps 1/8 of the people going through ATL go through the machine).


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## Skippy918 (Jul 15, 2008)

Is there a list of what airports have these scanners? I'm pregnant also and we're going on a trip soon and I have no idea if those scanners are safe or not.


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

I have to play Devil's Advocate here. I had two coworkers who died when someone got a bomb on their flight. It was in baggage, and why baggage is not "matched" with passengers so it can't happen that way again. Both were engaged to be married (not sure if one knew, supposedly he had bought the ring and was going to propose). Two young, beautiful women who had a lot to look forward to in their lives, except both were cut short...

So needless to say, anything they want to do to keep bombs off planes is okay with me! But I appreciate the creepy aspect a lot of you are feeling. It does feel weird but I doubt it can do much damage. We may not know but we are sure the damage a bomb on an airplane does!

I've had the pat-down more times than I can count. Sometimes they pick out airline people on purpose to make an example of us. Chop! chop! Felt like a piece of meat, but in the other sense lol! To their credit, they really tried to keep it professional and not at all sexual (and yes, it was a woman each time). I'm terribly ticklish and told the woman in Amsterdam. She was so good, doing it as solidly as possible so I wouldn't erupt in giggles. I was about to thank her when BING! she stabbed me in both sides. Then we were all laughing!

Security people too have a sense of humor (although I will admit that I think she wouldn't have done that to a passenger!)

Now I'm curious just to see what it's like. I wonder when I'll next run into one. We're flying international trips in December, April and next summer, with an additional one possibly in the spring. Hopefully on one of those!

I will say that it does annoy me that someone would refuse a body scanner pregnant and then go to the mall and get one of those creepy 3D scans. That has to be more. Talk about unnecessary radiation! But that's just my little old opinion and we have the freedom to choose.


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## lalemma (Apr 21, 2009)

We travel a lot with our little one (just turned one) and are going to be opting out of the body scan on our upcoming Thanksgiving trip.

First, I don't believe that security theater makes us safer, and I think this scan violates my right to bodily privacy. (So does a pat-down, but at least that person has to look me in the eye.)

Second, I am increasingly skeptical of the assurances that the amount of radiation you're exposed to by the machines is safe. Especially when operated by poorly-trained TSA people.

Third, I flat-out don't believe the claims that images will never be saved - the TSA has already gone back on that one. Now they can be saved for "training purposes and analysis".

Finally, we pretty much already do the patdown thing, and it's not THAT bad. We don't own a stroller, so our kid gets carried in wraps and slings, etc. Every time I travel (every. time.) I offer to take him out of the carrier, put the carrier through the X-ray machine, and just walk through the metal detector holding him in arms.

Every. Time. the TSA agent says no, they're going to have to:

*wand us both
*pat down my baby
*swab my hands for explosive residue

It's silly (my son, noted baby terrorist) and irritating, but I will absolutely still choose that over the untested, record-creating, privacy-violating nonsense of the bodyscan.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eclipsepearl* 
I will say that it does annoy me that someone would refuse a body scanner pregnant and then go to the mall and get one of those creepy 3D scans. That has to be more. Talk about unnecessary radiation! But that's just my little old opinion and we have the freedom to choose.

The things at the mall use ultra-sound, not x-rays. Not that I recommend them, but it is completely different technology. The mall things are basically the same technology as the ultra-sound at the OB/Gyns office, but longer and more intense and being operated by lord only knows who.


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## Geigerin (May 7, 2009)

We're getting ready to fly over Thanksgiving, and I have a moral objection to anyone but my husband or mother seeing me in that condition. I also object to anyone but my husband touching me in the way that the 'enhanced' pat down requires. I've seen what it looks like. They pat around and between your breasts (mine are large, so they'll basically have to squeeze between the flesh- ick!). And they pat your crotch and buttocks. I don't care that a woman does it. I'm no more comfortable with a woman than a man.

Are there any alternatives for women with modesty concerns?


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eclipsepearl* 
It was in baggage, and why baggage is not "matched" with passengers so it can't happen that way again.

Except baggage flies separately from its owners all the time - lost baggage, baggage that doesn't make a connection, etc. The airlines send unaccompanied baggage regularly, bombs or no bombs.


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
Except baggage flies separately from its owners all the time - lost baggage, baggage that doesn't make a connection, etc. The airlines send unaccompanied baggage regularly, bombs or no bombs.

True but that's called "involuntary" baggage rerouting. Someone would still have to check the bag in and board the flight. They couldn't arrange that it be "lost" ahead of time.

The terrorists that time simply skipped the connecting flight and the bag went on and they didn't. It was also an altitude-triggered bomb which didn't go off on the first flight. It was only when it got on the long-haul segment and got to a certain height that it went off.

After that, anyone who was offloaded, i.e. got sick, missed the flight, etc. had their bags removed before pushback. As a Flight Attendant, that caused a lot of delays but I was quick to point out to angry passengers that it was worth their while. But you're right that if your bag somehow doesn't get on a plane, it will take another flight without you, but you usually find that out when you arrive and not before.

Thanks eepster for correcting me on those creepy 3D scanners. I still understood that sonograms did use some radiation but I never looked into it. I actually specifically requested the minimum sonograms done during my pregnancies, just to be on the safe side.

For those of you who have been through these scanners, how many people (proportionally) were opting for the pat-down? Also, any special treatment when it came to children?


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalemma* 
We travel a lot with our little one (just turned one) and are going to be opting out of the body scan on our upcoming Thanksgiving trip.

First, I don't believe that security theater makes us safer, and I think this scan violates my right to bodily privacy. (So does a pat-down, but at least that person has to look me in the eye.)

Second, I am increasingly skeptical of the assurances that the amount of radiation you're exposed to by the machines is safe. Especially when operated by poorly-trained TSA people.

Third, I flat-out don't believe the claims that images will never be saved - the TSA has already gone back on that one. Now they can be saved for "training purposes and analysis".

Finally, we pretty much already do the patdown thing, and it's not THAT bad. We don't own a stroller, so our kid gets carried in wraps and slings, etc. Every time I travel (every. time.) I offer to take him out of the carrier, put the carrier through the X-ray machine, and just walk through the metal detector holding him in arms.

Every. Time. the TSA agent says no, they're going to have to:

*wand us both
*pat down my baby
*swab my hands for explosive residue

It's silly (my son, noted baby terrorist) and irritating, but I will absolutely still choose that over the untested, record-creating, privacy-violating nonsense of the bodyscan.

Are you in the US? I've flown with my ds several times, and I always wear him through security. I NEVER have to do anything other than walk through the metal detector.

Have you tried just taking him off in preparation for going through the detectors? Don't ask, don't offer, just take him off, put the carrier through, and carry him through.


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## lalemma (Apr 21, 2009)

Yes - the US, although we've also flown internationally.

Security measures are heavily airport-by-airport, and at the discretion of the individual team of TSA agents. Which makes them even more questionable.

I think the extra screening for a kid in a carrier is silly, but there've been times when I'm traveling alone and it's just easier to cope with than the alternative.


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## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

We just recently flew and what the previous poster said about security measures being airport-to-airport was really highlighted for us.

I was in a wheel chair provided by the airline for both outbound and inbound flights. The treatment that I received at each airport was astonishingly different!

Outbound the TSA agent tried to do everything to keep me comfortable and from having to move (I was pregnant and had a broken rib!). Yes, I did get patted down but she barely touched me and it just wasn't an issue.

Inbound was a whole other animal. First, I had to be swabbed. Then the chair had to be swabbed. I said, "This isn't *my* wheelchair. It is the airlines." TSA, "Yes. We still have to check it." (In my mind I'm thinking this isn't good! What if something shows up on the chair!?) She pats me down *very* thoroughly and then asks if I will stand up. I said, "I'm in a wheel chair because standing and sitting hurt. I will if you need me to but isn't there someway around that?" She huffs. (I'm not sure what she would do with someone who was in their own wheelchair but surely I'm not the only person she's had to pat down in a chair before.) She finishes and then says I'll need to stand so they can swab the wheelchair's seat. Someone else tells her she doesn't need to do that. She says I can go. It was a lengthy, uncomfortable process.

So, yeah, from airport to airport things vary widely. I don't know which airport followed procedure.









Geigerin- I think the only other choice is doing the patdown in private or not flying. :/ Maybe the airports you'll be at will just have the regular detectors and not the new xray machines...best of luck!

Jenne


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## nia82 (May 6, 2008)

@ Geigerin: I don't think you have much of a choice, but you can request a private room for having the pat-down done. A woman on a flight last week had a pacemaker and they took her to a private space for the pat-down since she cannot do metal detectors nor body scanners.

I do think there is a huge difference between body scanners that use xray and 3D ultrasounds. While I personally opt against 3D ultrasounds and I am not completely convinced of ultrasound safety (I only did the anatomy scan, nothing else), it is well established that xray isn't healthy. I only accept xrays when medically indicated (e.g. I broke my leg). I don't mind the pat-down all that much, it's uncomfy, but whatever, better than radiation.. There already is enough high altitude radiation during the flight, so I'd like to keep it to a minimum.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama* 
Are you in the US? I've flown with my ds several times, and I always wear him through security. I NEVER have to do anything other than walk through the metal detector.

Have you tried just taking him off in preparation for going through the detectors? Don't ask, don't offer, just take him off, put the carrier through, and carry him through.

In nearly 6 years of flying with kids I have ALWAYS have been told to take them out of the carrier. I've gone through security at SEA, PIT, DTW, ORD, LGB, and JNU -every one of them required the child be taken out of the carrier.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

I have also always had to take off my infant carrier.

My DH feels very strongly about refusing the scan, not for modesty, but because he thinks it's "security theater" and fascist to boot. He really has a bee in his bonnet about it. So I plan to refuse the scan if we end up in the line that has it, and they can just feel me up in public with three kids running wild and see how they like that. (We did question whether it would bother the kids to be touched all over, but have concluded that they do not care at all.)

My fave article on the subject: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...istance/65390/


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## lalemma (Apr 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
In nearly 6 years of flying with kids I have ALWAYS have been told to take them out of the carrier. I've gone through security at SEA, PIT, DTW, ORD, LGB, and JNU -every one of them required the child be taken out of the carrier.

Did you go through Seattle and Chicago recently? Maybe there's been a change of procedure in the past year? I've gone through security in SEA and ORD in the past 6/7 months, and been told to leave my kid on, and then been pulled for pat-downs, swabbing, etc.

I'm guessing there's a surprising amount of authority given to the individual TSA team, hence the amazing above story about the pregnant lady and the wheelchair. Yikes!

Smithie - your husband sounds like my husband.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Lalemma - the last tiem I flew was June. I didn't have DD in the carrier at that point because she didn't want to be. But, I did get pulled aside for a patdown because I was wearing a long skirt (this was Seattle). I don't think I was wearing her when we flew back from PIT either, but I don't remember.


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## spedteacher30 (Nov 20, 2005)

I never had to take my son off when I wore him through security, but I did have to take his shoes off his little feet.









They told me that what mattered was the type of carrier he was in and how much metal was on it, and how much of my body it obstructed. I think he was in the ergo every time, but he might have been in a pouch sling.

He went through security at airports large and small and the carrier was never an issue.

I am flying tomorrow into an airport with the full body scanners--which means I will be going through security on my return trip later this week in an airport with the scanners. I honestly hadn't given it much thought until this thread. I am not currently pregnant, nor nursing, nor trying to get pregnant, nor planning to get pregnant in the next few months...

I think I will probably feel OK with the scanner in terms of safety, though I highly question their effectiveness...


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## Izlandia (Jul 8, 2010)

I am so glad this thread was here. I have been worrying myself sick because I will be flying with my DD for the first time this Christmas and Omaha's airport has the bodyscanners. I am terrified they are going to pick me to go through it. I absolutely do not want to be scanned nor do I want to be patted down and I don't want my DD to have to go through it either. I am hoping and praying they don't pick me out of the line.. I will be wearing my DD in a sling so hopefully they will skip us. But if they dont I honestly have no idea what I am going to do. My DH feels the same way. Back in August he had to fly to San Antonio for business and he was picked to go through the scanner :/ I don't want to create such a fuss and miss my flight either! Ugh I hate how this country is treating its citizens as if we are all criminals!


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## Amatullah0 (Apr 7, 2009)

Me and DS are planning on flying this coming feb, out of JFK, and I hear they either *just* got the scanners, or are getting them soon. I'm betting on being "randomly" selected for the new machines(mainly because of the loose clothing that I plan to wear), I plan on refusing for medical and religious reasons, and thus, on agreeing to a full-body pet-down







and I will be requesting it done in private(i wear loose clothes for a reason, not so random strangers can see all my curves while I am being subjected to some "enhanced pat down"!)

I'm a little nervous, I've never been through security with DS before!

I wonder what they would do if you were selected for the screening machine and you had a baby with you? surely the baby wouldn't be left outside? but how can the baby/toddler stay in the screening room? don't you have to stand still for the scan? good luck getting a kid to stay still!


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## outlier (Sep 29, 2008)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Izlandia*
> 
> I am so glad this thread was here. I have been worrying myself sick because I will be flying with my DD for the first time this Christmas and Omaha's airport has the bodyscanners. I am terrified they are going to pick me to go through it. I absolutely do not want to be scanned nor do I want to be patted down and I don't want my DD to have to go through it either. I am hoping and praying they don't pick me out of the line.. I will be wearing my DD in a sling so hopefully they will skip us. But if they dont I honestly have no idea what I am going to do. My DH feels the same way. Back in August he had to fly to San Antonio for business and he was picked to go through the scanner :/ I don't want to create such a fuss and miss my flight either! Ugh I hate how this country is treating its citizens as if we are all criminals!


They can't force you to go through it. I guess I don't understand what you mean by "picked" to do it? Your choices at the airport will either be to go through the scanner or go through the metal detecter and get the pat-down. I don't think it's possible to opt out of both. If I were you I would pick which one to do now and start trying to get used to the idea. You don't want to go through security while looking terrified; I think that would only make TSA want to take an extra-close look at you!


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## SparklingGemini (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outlier*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> They can't force you to go through it. I guess I don't understand what you mean by "picked" to do it? Your choices at the airport will either be to go through the scanner or go through the metal detecter and get the pat-down.


I don't think so, unless I'm missing a new security feature that's been implemented in the past week or two.

We just flew from SJC to PHX, and back, and only every once in a while was someone chosen to go through the full-body scanner. They can opt out and choose the pat down instead. But not everyone had to go through the scanner or the pat down. It was random.

As for the carrier, I've always been allowed to walk through the metal detector with my DD in her carrier. I just make sure ahead of time she has her shoes and jacket off and that the carrier contains nothing metal. No problems.


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## Geofizz (Sep 25, 2003)

Not all airports have them, and not all terminals have them. They are not in use during all hours of the day. They take about 45-50 seconds to process a single passenger, so they cannot be used exclusively -- it's just too slow. Overflow goes through the metal detector. The trick is to always be "overflow" and to look like an expert that is zero threat.

So far, I'm managed to dodge them every single time. I tend to travel early in the morning, when security lines are relatively long. I wear no loose clothing, remove any sweatshirt/jacket before entering the line. I also use the expert traveler line. Most of the BS scanners are on the non-expert lines. Then I stagger my approach to the metal detector according to when they're taking a new person. I'll let someone go ahead of me if the BS scanner is about to finish with the person in front of me, so that person gets picked. Then get my stuff to the scanner, and they shoo me through the metal detector instead. Probably not totally ethical, but I know the system well enough to totally dodge the screening. Throughout the whole process, I smile, make eye contact with the TSA agents, make chit chat about the ungodly early hour or the weather, and wish everyone a good day. This is a technique I perfected when I was flying a lot right after 9/11. I never got myself picked for the "random" screening then, either.

Security theater.

I travel as frequently as two flights a week, so I've got quite a bit of experience on it now...


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## laura-belle (Nov 3, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eclipsepearl*
> 
> I have to play Devil's Advocate here. I had two coworkers who died when someone got a bomb on their flight. It was in baggage, and why baggage is not "matched" with passengers so it can't happen that way again. Both were engaged to be married (not sure if one knew, supposedly he had bought the ring and was going to propose). Two young, beautiful women who had a lot to look forward to in their lives, except both were cut short...
> 
> So needless to say, anything they want to do to keep bombs off planes is okay with me! But I appreciate the creepy aspect a lot of you are feeling. It does feel weird but I doubt it can do much damage. We may not know but we are sure the damage a bomb on an airplane does!


Except that forcing passengers through a screening procedure that I consider equivalent to sexual assault has nothing to do with explosives in baggage. The whole thing is security theatre at its finest. This is exactly the sort of story that the government uses to attempt to justify this sort of screening, but in reality-land explosives in baggage and strip searching of passengers are unrelated. All bags, both checked and carry-on, are already supposed to be going through some sort of screening that theoretically should find any explosives. The cockpit is already supposed to be inaccessible from the main cabin during the flight rendering anything that a passenger tried with an edged weapon fairly irrelevant to the plane staying in the air. Enough explosives to take down the plane are more likely to be carried inside a passenger than on one. Neither the naked picture machine nor the incredibly invasive pat-down procedure render flying significantly safer for either passengers or crew.

Also, creepy is not how I would describe the whole thing. To me it feels like being to choose my preferred form of sexual assault and that is not OK. I should get to choose who looks at naked pictures of me and I should get to choose who touches my genitals and my breasts. I should not be essentially banned from traveling because I am uncomfortable with either option.

ETA: I had to go through one at SFO about a month ago and I still feel invaded by the experience. The general atmosphere did not make opting out feel like a good idea. I did not see them select anyone with kid while I was in line though.


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## TattooedMomma (Jan 25, 2010)

This post talks about how useless these machines are, and how there are NO long term studies on their affect on humans. I would never go through one of them and luckily was not chosen to go through the one at the Omaha airport. I don't remember if there were any or not at the Baltimore airport. I was also allowed to keep DD in her carrier and just walk through the metal detectors. But I doubt I will be so lucky again. I would probably let DD be patted down, but only if I didn't really have a choice but to travel by plane (if you need to be on the other side of the country and only have a week off of work, driving isn't an option.) In a few days we are going to be driving 16 hours to see my family, I'm not looking forward to it with a 9 month old, but it beats the airport!

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/01/06/5-reasons-body-scanners-might-not-solve-our-terrorism-problem/


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## Izlandia (Jul 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outlier*
> 
> They can't force you to go through it. I guess I don't understand what you mean by "picked" to do it? Your choices at the airport will either be to go through the scanner or go through the metal detecter and get the pat-down. I don't think it's possible to opt out of both. If I were you I would pick which one to do now and start trying to get used to the idea. You don't want to go through security while looking terrified; I think that would only make TSA want to take an extra-close look at you!


They choose people at random to go through the body scanner. If you opt out then you get an enhanced pat down. I am going to stand in the metal detector line like everyone else. I am terrified of being picked at random is my problem. I will do my best to look calm, but if they pick me to go through the body scanner I will probably start shaking and crying. I was molested when I was 4 so I hope you can understand my terror.


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## outlier (Sep 29, 2008)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Izlandia*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I'm very sorry to hear that. Of course your terror is completely understandable, and I really hope you're not picked. :hug

I guess when I went through the airport that has them, I was there at a time when they were scanning or patting down absolutely everyone (lucky me!), so I misunderstood what the new procedure was. My mistake. Now I'm kind of pissed that I (a 7 months pregnant woman in not-loose clothing at the time) had to go through this crap!


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## MCPM (Jan 29, 2006)

What I wonder is how they will do it if you have a baby?

I am going to be flying at christmas with a five-year-old and a 10-month-old baby and I really don't know what to do.

If it were just me, I could deal with either the freaky xray machine or the intrusive groping. I dislike both, but I can handle it. But I don't want to give so much radiation to my 5 yr old (plus the naked photo) and I really don't want to have her touched all over, she is a very reserved girl and it's totally scary and inappropriate.

And what about the baby! I mean, can you even fit in the xray thing holding a baby? Where does the kid stand? Are they going to poke and prod my baby in an "enhanced pat down"?

I am not very modest, nor very easily fussed, but I am actually reconsidering my holiday plans now.


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## CrunchyChristianMama (Dec 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *laura-belle*
> 
> Except that forcing passengers through a screening procedure that I consider equivalent to sexual assault has nothing to do with explosives in baggage. The whole thing is security theatre at its finest. This is exactly the sort of story that the government uses to attempt to justify this sort of screening, but in reality-land explosives in baggage and strip searching of passengers are unrelated. All bags, both checked and carry-on, are already supposed to be going through some sort of screening that theoretically should find any explosives. The cockpit is already supposed to be inaccessible from the main cabin during the flight rendering anything that a passenger tried with an edged weapon fairly irrelevant to the plane staying in the air. Enough explosives to take down the plane are more likely to be carried inside a passenger than on one. Neither the naked picture machine nor the incredibly invasive pat-down procedure render flying significantly safer for either passengers or crew.
> 
> ...


Exactly. I don't know why we aren't more upset about this as a nation and refusing being subjected to it.

I am also not willing to subject my children to this. No stranger has the right to grope my child for any reason.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MCPM*
> 
> What I wonder is how they will do it if you have a baby?
> 
> ...


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/101112/health/us_airport_security_health


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## rahans (Feb 29, 2008)

Natural News has a lot of information on the BS. I will be flying out of Boston in a few weeks with my 3 and 5 yr old. I am hoping to go through the regular metal detector but if told to go through the body scanner, we will be opting for a full pat down in public. I will request a female for me and the kids. I will not want to go into a private room - I would rather the public see what they are subjecting us too. My neighbor flies out of Boston a lot and has not seen any families have to go through the BS. I have been pretty stressed about the upcoming flight and it has put a damper on it - no choice but to fly as it is international.


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## musingmama (Oct 31, 2004)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2013428303_scans14.html

interesting article from the Seattle Times this morning...

Being pregnant, I would not do the full body scan. Seattle airport is now insisting everyone have the full body scan or get an "enhanced pat down" -- it makes me not want to fly at all! and I also wonder what they are doing for young children...


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Maybe I'll drive to Portland for our next flight...


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## MommaKitten21 (May 12, 2009)

Just saw this article.... congrats to this guy! Patting down the groin area on a guy, and the groin/chest area on a woman is a little disturbing to me. I am not ok with that. I think this guy did a great job.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_newsroom/20101114/tr_yblog_newsroom/san-diego-man-balks-at-scan

I'm interested to see what comes of this.


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## CrunchyChristianMama (Dec 5, 2008)

My DH's comment about it this morning: I wonder if that book that got pulled from Amazon had a chapter on how to become a TSA worker....

They had the head of the TSA on the Today Show this morning. He said that children 12 and under are exempt from the scanner and enhanced pat down. Great. So when my girls are 13 I have to allow them to be groped. I'm so reassured.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Just so I'm clear, you only get the enhanced patdown if you refuse the xray machine? But if you go through the regular metal detector, there's no patdown? So that makes the patdown a punishment for refusing the xray. Cruel and unusual? Isn't that against the US Constitution?


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## Peggy O'Mara (Nov 19, 2001)

I wouldn't use them either, and have not been to an airport where they are used exclusively. I was surprised to hear Mercola say not to worry about them at the recent International Chiropractic Pediatric Association (ICPA) conference in October. I can't find anything on his site. He seemed to be basing his lack of concern on the comparison of the amount of radiation from the scanner compared to the amount of radiation one is exposed to on the plane.


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Two words: SECURITY THEATER.

I will refuse every time and request a female (or supervisor) for the enhanced patdown if it cannot be avoided.

Re. baby carriers, I've been able to wear DD through about 50% of the time. Stupid me took her in a RS the first time, so obviously the metal rings had to come off. Nowdays we take the ergo, and have mixed results. And we, of course, have to take her shoes off. :eyesroll

Incidentally, I find that Huz and I are often targed for the "enhanced" screening in the special area. I think it is because we are incredibly "safe looking"--he's military with the haircut and all; I'm an Irish-looking 30-ish middle class gal, struggling with an irish-looking toddler, no electronics, etc. Don't want to accidentally find something suspicious and have to deal with it...


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## Ninetales (Jan 25, 2009)

Honestly, I think a lot of people don't know what these scanners do. I was talking about it with my in-laws this weekend and they thought I was kind of overreacting about it, and I couldn't understand how they were ok with it, because they're very conservative and modest people. It turns out that they were under the impression that the picture is like a regular x-ray, where you see the bones. Once I showed them what the pictures really look like, and they understood that someone is essentially looking at your naked body, they understood my objections.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Peggy O'Mara*
> 
> I wouldn't use them either, and have not been to an airport where they are used exclusively. I was surprised to hear Mercola say not to worry about them at the recent International Chiropractic Pediatric Association (ICPA) conference in October. I can't find anything on his site. He seemed to be basing his lack of concern on the comparison of the amount of radiation from the scanner compared to the amount of radiation one is exposed to on the plane.


Interestingly, I find the extra radiation from the scan to be more worrisome, b/c one is already being exposed to radiation during the flight. All those little bits here and there add up. It would be like the cab driver trying to convince me that it was OK for him to charge me $200, instead of the usual $35 to drive me to the airport just b/c the flight itself was already potentially costing me $300. Just b/c flying carries a risk of radiation exposure doesn't mean that one should ignore completely other exposure simply b/c they are lower doses than what one might be exposed to during flight.

I won't get into the fact that it is a slightly different form and completely different delivery of the radiation, since I don't have a perfect understanding of those factors.


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## Izlandia (Jul 8, 2010)

I found on the Today's Show website more information about their talk with the TSA today. Here is a quote "TSA has altered its policies with children, Pistole said. "We've heard the concerns that have been expressed, and agree that children 12 and under should not receive that type of pat down." So just because the guy says they should not receieve the enhanced pat down has the policy changed yet? Also he mentions nothing about the naked body scanner and frankly I feel that an adult viewing naked pictures of children is pedophilia. And like someone else said above how is becoming 13 make it any better for the child? It should be 16+ when the child is old enough to make the decision for themselves.

Heres a link to an article about a 12 year girl who was scanned: http://newsflavor.com/world/usa-canada/tampa-airport-full-body-scan-of-12-year-old-girl-without-parental-consent/

And heres the link to the Today Show Article: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40194439/ns/today-todaytravel


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## averysmomma05 (Feb 28, 2007)

I flew from RDU to Boston last week and Boston back to RDU this week and all that happened to me was taking my shoes off, putting carry on bags on the belt for scanner and going through a detector and then getting my things etc. No pat downs or full body scanners. We did have a paper in our suitcase that went on the plane saying it was checked by TSA but no other issues.


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## liliaceae (May 31, 2007)

So guess what? If you refuse both the body scan and the pat down, you are violating federal law and could be charged up to $11,000.


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

I was JUST reading and thinking baout this subject and feeling quite spooked by it, and I remembered this thread about it is here so I wanted to come here. It is reassuring to find discussion happening on this. I thin kit is just appalling! Really scary- to be forced to go through radiation (or have a pat down) ugh! Treated like a criminal really. Just to travel. and now that I have a kid I am even less inclined to do that- they couldn't make a baby go through it htough right?

the naked part is just appaling- but more so is the radiation part-

all of it.

I wonder if the current Obama administration will repond to this at all? I hope somehting changes because it seriously makes me not want to go on any trips if I have to deal with that, which is sad as I sometimes like to travel. But I hate feeling like you have to follow some law that is actually a violation on the physical body of me and my family. ugh. I wish we could change this some how.


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## NightOwlwithowlet (Jun 13, 2009)

I flew last week with my 8 year old from Orlando and they directed everyone with kids to the lines without body scanners.


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## CrunchyChristianMama (Dec 5, 2008)

I'm ready to see some TSA employees step up and say, "this is crazy, we won't violate people in this way."

Also, what kind of screening are TSA employees going through. If a random person is going to see my naked body or be feeling me up, I would like to know what qualifies them to do so and know that they are a sexual deviant of some sort.


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## CrunchyChristianMama (Dec 5, 2008)

It's getting even worse. This is so ridiculous.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/tsa-now-putting-hands-down-fliers-pants.html


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrunchyChristianMama*
> 
> I'm ready to see some TSA employees step up and say, "this is crazy, we won't violate people in this way."
> 
> Also, what kind of screening are TSA employees going through. If a random person is going to see my naked body or be feeling me up, I would like to know what qualifies them to do so and know that they are a sexual deviant of some sort.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Ok, for some reason when I quote a reply it doesn't ever make the actual comments I type below the quote appear. Maybe a glitch with IE9 and these new forums?

Anyways, what I wrote is that no TSA employee is going to stand up and say it's not ok. They would probably get written up and fired and then have no way to find a new job because their current boss would give them a bad rec to anyplace they applied. While I'm sure some TSA employees do not agree with what is going on, there is no way they're going to risk their jobs. And I totally understand that.

I also can't believe the amount of taxpayer money is going into buying these machines? Anyone know if elected officials received campaign contributions from whatever company makes the scanners?


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## thefreckledmama (Jun 1, 2007)

I thought it was interesting to note that just the other day, after the TSA website says that photo scans are absolutely NOT stored anywhere, the TSA admitted that they have been storing some body scan images.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20012583-281.html

The thought of my child's body image being stored and looked at by some stranger eeks me way more than a pat down with me right there.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrunchyChristianMama*
> 
> Exactly. I don't know why we aren't more upset about this as a nation and refusing being subjected to it.


People are buying the idea that this makes us "safer", therefore it's worth it. I wonder if they'll feel the same after someone smuggles explosives aboard in a body cavity and random "screening" via body cavity check gets put into place?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Irishmommy*
> 
> Just so I'm clear, you only get the enhanced patdown if you refuse the xray machine? But if you go through the regular metal detector, there's no patdown? So that makes the patdown a punishment for refusing the xray. Cruel and unusual? Isn't that against the US Constitution?


This is my understanding, but I've also read at least one account (can't find the link) of a child being required to have a patdown after the x-ray, because he moved and the scan wasn't clear.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Peggy O'Mara*
> 
> I wouldn't use them either, and have not been to an airport where they are used exclusively. I was surprised to hear Mercola say not to worry about them at the recent International Chiropractic Pediatric Association (ICPA) conference in October. I can't find anything on his site.


I've become very disillusioned with Dr. Mercola of late, and suspect he can't find a way to make any money off people refusing the scans.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

There is some protest about all this http://wewontfly.com/ http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_168932076459314

Children have had to endure the patdown 



 




Lots of people are posting their stories: http://www.ourlittlechatterboxes.com/2010/11/tsa-sexual-assault.html

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/tsa-agent-at-body-scanner-heads-up-got-a-cutie-for-ya/

http://www.pennandteller.com/03/coolstuff/penniphile/roadpennfederalvip.html

Good articles http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/11/17/kevin-libin-will-you-let-them-touch-your-junk/

http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/know-your-options-airport

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/11/the-things-he-carried/7057/


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## crystal_buffaloe (Apr 30, 2010)

I was pulled out for an "enhanced patdown" and it was utterly and completely humiliating. I broke down in tears. It didn't help that I was exhausted from the international flight and going through customs, but honestly, it ranks up there with some of the worst experiences of my life. (I also was in no way prepared for it -- I didn't think I would be singled out, and even if I was singled out, I didn't think it would be like that.) For myself, if I absolutely had to fly, I would go through the body scanner. For my daughter, if the choice were body scanner or patdown, I would leave, miss the flight, and take my chances with the $11,000 fine.


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## MamieCole (Jun 1, 2007)

I'm all for being safe...but the steps the TSA takes in attempting to thwart another attack are laughable and really pointless. They are certainly reactionary and not preemptive and they don't make me feel one bit safe. Any real terrorist is 3 (or 30) steps ahead of the metal detectors and body scanners. If someone wanted to bring an explosive on board, they could easily do it by inserting it into an orifice. Or they could just bring a baby with them so they don't have to go through the body scanner.

And once someone is successful the next time or an attempt is thwarted, cavity searches will be mandatory and babies will be banned. And while we are reacting to that, terrorists will be thinking of a totally new way to bring down a plane.

I really just wish they'd say "Hey, we are going to check IDs, follow the No-fly list, use metal detectors and scan all luggage. We'll have some plain clothes air marshalls on flights. Then fly at your own risk cause if someone really wants to bring down a plane we can't stop them."

Cause really, that's all they can do.

But no. I have to take the Robeez off of my baby and be felt up by a stranger. Cause THAT makes flying safer.


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## dave88 (Nov 15, 2010)

Are you talking about scan searching? I mean to check your body about illegal stuff.

dave,


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## musingmama (Oct 31, 2004)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/travelwise/2013474414_trpucci19.html

"...Passenger rights, electronic privacy and civil liberties advocates raised plenty of red flags at the time, but their concerns fell mostly on ears clogged with information from what became known in Washington, D.C., circles as the "full-body scanner lobby."

Among the most alarming revelations was the role former Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff played in advocating for the controversial backscatter scanners made by a California-based Rapiscan Systems, a client of his consulting firm, the Chertoff Group.

Those scanners, which produce revealing body images and emit X-ray-like ionizing radiation, are among the more controversial of two systems in place.

About half the scanners, including 14 installed at Sea-Tac, are backscatter machines....

...TSA only recently changed its website to reflect the use of body scanners, and the need to remove wallets and everything else from pockets - not just items that might set off a metal detector.

Still missing is information on the pat-down procedure for children, which spokesmen have described as "modified," leaving parents to imagine for themselves what that might mean."


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

a friend of mine just posted about this woan's breast being exposed on facebook:

http://gizmodo.com/5692583/woman-suing-federal-government-after-tsa-screener-exposed-her-breasts-to-entire-airport

And, how Israel's airports are safer than ours even though they don't any of the feel-you-up-see-you-naked stuff:

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

oops, double post


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DahliaRW*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


This is weird, I've been through SEA, JFK and LGA several times in the last 1.5years, and always have my ds on my back in either the Ergo or Beco, and I've never been pulled aside for anything - no patting down, no wand, nothing.


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## MamieCole (Jun 1, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> a friend of mine just posted about this woan's breast being exposed on facebook:
> 
> ...


Loved reading that second story. Too bad that will never be the way we do things here. *sigh*


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## carriebft (Mar 10, 2007)

just a note- not all the scanner types are X rays. Newark uses the radio waves model. These are called millimeter-wave scanners and don't pose a harmful radiation risk.


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## Geist (Jan 27, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I've never been asked either when I've worn my son in a wrap or Beco, usually I fly out of BOS and ICT. The worst thing about our security theater is that so much of what you'll have to do depends on the individual TSA agent at the individual checkpoint. If they just feel like making you do something, you have to do it.


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## shannonnc78 (May 15, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DahliaRW*
> 
> I also can't believe the amount of taxpayer money is going into buying these machines? Anyone know if elected officials received campaign contributions from whatever company makes the scanners?


Rapiscan, one of the manufacturers of the nude-o-scopes, was a client of former head of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff's security consulting company. He was a huge proponent of the machines. I'm sure he's made millions from them.


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## 1stTimeMama4-4-10 (Feb 4, 2010)

We flew out of Hartford, CT on 11/18 and out of O'Hare on 11/22. Out of Hartford, no one in my group went through the x-rays - they were not in use. Out of O'Hare, everyone in my group (5 adults) EXCEPT me was selected to go through the x-ray machines. I was carrying DD (7months). It looked like it was being done at random, but I was so thankful that I was not asked to choose between radiation (mild I know, but still) and a stranger touching my child. I still had not decided which was worse when I got to the airport.

Obviously I don't know what other people will experience, I just thought some mommas might feel better knowing that it might not be required.


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

I know as we approach the big holiday travel season the safety of these new scanners is on everyone's mind.

I just want to put on my mod hat and remind you that the Family Safety forum is the appropriate place to host a discussion about the SAFETY of these devices. However, discussions around this issue as a current event should go in the News and Current Events forum and not here in Family Safety. Threads that are off the safety topic will be moved. Thanks for understanding!


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## BethSLP (Mar 27, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> if we end up in the line that has it, and they can just feel me up in public with three kids running wild and see how they like that.



















I am simultaneously laughing my head off and worshipping you at the same time for this comment. AWESOME.

I am trying to decide what to do about these myself, and this comment pretty much sums up how I'm feeling right now.

XOXO

B


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

I didn't see anyone mention it, but if you are patted down, demand that the agent put on a pair of fresh gloves. I absolutely do not want to be frisked with gloves that have touched hundreds or thousands of people with unknown hygienic status. Scabies, fungi, herpes, the list goes on...just eww.


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## mama2soren (Feb 12, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Equuskia*
> 
> I didn't see anyone mention it, but if you are patted down, demand that the agent put on a pair of fresh gloves. I absolutely do not want to be frisked with gloves that have touched hundreds or thousands of people with unknown hygienic status. Scabies, fungi, herpes, the list goes on...just eww.


Ewww, totally gross to imagine! Good reminder tip, Equuskia!


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## amyhulen (May 22, 2005)

The very idea of flying makes me sick to my stomach now. We have a 6 year old DD, a 14 year old DD and another DD on the way. I WILL NOT risk our health or mental well being to fly on an airplane. I cannot put my kids through the possibility of invasive touching by strangers much less risk any form a radiation that isn't medically necessary.

Ive seen to many stories in the news recently involving bodily fluids being exposed during body searches and sorry but I seriously doubt that anyone is disenfecting the "private" rooms.


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