# In-laws are crazy!



## ValarieR (Nov 8, 2006)

So, I had turkey day dinner with DH's family tonight, and I am still in shock! My SIL and future SIL are both RN's... our conversation went to crunchy lifestyle, and they said the most ridiculous things!!!

They said that children sleeping with parents ups their risk for SIDS...

parents sleeping with babies have to have sex in front of their kids...

children who sleep with parents are not capable of becomming independent...

kids who co-sleep don't get to express individuality...

breastfeeding in public is gross...

cloth diapers are gross...

having kids "as they come" (w/o birth control) is silly when we could (theoretically) time when we have kids...

it is impossible to go to school and have kids, I'll have to pick one or the other...

It was the worst family dinner ever! Tell me I'm not the only one who has to deal with this crap!

~Valarie~


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## Ellp (Nov 18, 2004)

Wow, what a load of crock all in one go! I'm sorry you had to hear all that! Truth be known, just because you're a nurse doesn't mean you know it all about parenting, and most of the things they said are parenting related, not medical. I'm an RN myself, and I disagree with everything they said.

I bet they don't have kids themselves, do they? Otherwise they'd know better about some of their "facts".


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## ValarieR (Nov 8, 2006)

No, neither of them has kids... but when one thought she was preggers, she drank and smoked... I wouldn't take advice from either of them, it is just irritating to have my beliefs ridiculed and put-down









~Valarie~


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:

parents sleeping with babies have to have sex in front of their kids...
I have never had sex in front of ds so far in his life.........both time







(yes only twice) we have done it when he was napping in the daytime


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## massaginmommy (Mar 5, 2005)

*Valarie* sorry you had a rough time. Your SIL's are whacked.
Keep paving the way. Remember your children will be the ones who are well adjusted confident human beings.


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## Ambrose (Apr 20, 2004)

Well, DH and I had sex when dd was 3 months old and cosleeping. She was so asleep that she didn't budge and actually snored!







We were super duper quite.

I never knew my sex life was so boring that one could snore through it.


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

Sorry you have to deal with that.

Just support for one part of your 'attack' - I returned to school when dd was 3 1/2, ds1 was 1 1/2, and found out I was pg (surprised) w/ds2 halfway through my 1st semester back. I still finished 'ontime' from when I started, even w/a newborn, having ds1 get dx'd w/autism, dd starting school, etc. Of course you can go to school w/kids. In some ways, it was easier w/kids than when I went when I was 18.


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

Oh, and my kids have never seen me having sex and all of them have slept w/us. They now start the night in their own room, but make it in by us overnight.


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## blsilva (Jul 31, 2006)

Are you related to my dh? Beacuse your in-laws sound just like mine!!! When ds1 was born, we had to hear all that crap about cosleeping, breastfeeding, not circing, etc. We eventually just made the topics off limits, adn now we can get through a family meal almost peacefully.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I would have stopped the conversation, that's absurd.







Sorry you had to endure that!


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## Anglyn (Oct 25, 2004)

This sounds like my family. Last Thanksgiving I had a three day old nephew and a sister who was six mo pregnant and the day turned into a huge debate over circumcision. My sister dug in her heels and when she had to concede every point, reverted to, "well, its gross". I have been told that I was still nursing dd after 12mos becuase I must be getting some type of perverse pleasure out of it (by my own mother) and that nursing through pregnancy was hurting my baby and that tandem nursing was letting dd steal the babys milk. My mom kept asking what my doc thought and I responded that number one, its not his baby, its mine and number two my doc was supportive which was good, otherwise Id be finding a new one. She knows better! She never trust a first opinion of one doc, she always does her research! Let's see, Ive heard it about cosleeping. Back when ds1 was little and my family found out that I didnt spank, I was told he would be a horrible awful spoiled rotten mean child. I was told that picking him up everytime he wanted me to was making him a spoiled whiny clingy mamas boy who would never develop his lungs. Ive been told that letting the kids cosleep is ruining our sex life (despite the fact that I obvioulsy keep conceiving, hmmm), that babies dont need breastmilk after age one, that she'll never wean, that its gross, that its unhealthy etc etc.

The up side is....after all this time, I think Ive finally worn my mom down! Serioulsy, had you said six months ago she'd ever support any of my AP decision Id have said you were nuts, she was my biggest critic. Maybe its my steadfast resistance, maybe its seeing my secure, independant, happy kids against my nephews who are...well, less than secure, independant and happy, but my mother is now advocating to my siblings no spanking, no circing, holding baby in arms and on demand, homeschooling, etc. Its only a matter of time before she comes around about the rest (which she is at least not harping on to me anymore!) She blew me away by being supportive about homeschooling and not vaxing, I was so sure it was gonna be another huge fight.

What Im saying is, theres always hope, lol!!!

Plus, even though I take a LOT of crap at work becuase Im open and vocal about my choices, in the four years Ive been at this agency, Ive had several people come to me privatley about such things as breastfeeding, cosleeping and not circing. They were afraid to go to anyone else, but came to me to get advice/information and maybe they made a diffrent choice and followed thier instincts because of me, so its worth the crap I take off everyone else.
Plus, we work in the field of child development, we are the "experts" going into peoples homes, and a lot of first time moms are very suseptible to an "experts" opinion, so I feel like in all good concious I cannot keep quite and let my colleauges spread misinformation. I cant stop them, but I can do as much as I can do. I am encourage because my agency has been given the responsibility of serving infants/toddlers who have mental health issues, so there is a big push now for infant mental health training for all staff and everything Ive heard so far backs up AP to the t! So there is hope!

It took me over ten years, but I finally got my bestfriend to stop spanking her kids.

If you become worn down with it, just refuse to discuss it, you dont HAVE to defend your choices, they are your choices. You did not come to them ignorantly or lazily and you cannot undertake the journey of learning and growing for them. If they truly want to learn or discuss with an open mind thats one thing, but you never have to defend your choices against those who have prejudged them and already set thier minds against them. And that statement is more or less exactly what I now say to my family when they want to aruge and it pretty well stops it. Or even more simply, "If you didnt like my answer last time, why would you ask me again?"


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## mimid (Dec 29, 2004)

Yeah, we get simialr crap. I've perfected the blank stare that makes it look like I'm listening. We've learned to pretty much not talk about it.


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## oliversmum2000 (Oct 10, 2003)




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## GypsyGrin (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:

because you're a nurse doesn't mean you know it all about parenting
I had an RN explain that the baby should be allowed to only nurse for 7 minutes on each side. At 7 minutes one should start flicking the child in the cheek with your finger to get it to lose his/her latch, and switch to the other side or move the child off.

(I really hope no one actually listens to this cr*p.)


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## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GypsyGrin* 
I had an RN explain that the baby should be allowed to only nurse for 7 minutes on each side. At 7 minutes one should start flicking the child in the cheek with your finger to get it to lose his/her latch, and switch to the other side or move the child off.

(I really hope no one actually listens to this cr*p.)

My X sil told me to flick my baby's cheeck when he chewed on my nipples. I did it to myself, an OUCH, it hurt!!! I can't imagine doing it to a little baby


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

to respond to the wider question that the op relates to:

IL's are always gonna conflict and soapbox. it's the nature of the beast.

my IL's are from India, so i actually get less "anti-crunchy" stuff than most americans do, because it's more of a cosleeping, bf'ing culture.

but the amount of anti-american sentiment i have to listen to gets old, from dh's three siblings and their spouses ( from Ivory Coast, Haiti...). it's not like i want to argue most of their points, because i tend to agree that political/corporate america is evil, but there's always this implication that all american people are closed minded racists, and that i'm one of them, and responsible for it all. add in that they're catholic and i'm an atheist (thus going to hell because i won't repent) and you get some tense family dinners. and though there's support for cosleeping in general, there's pressure to "let" the kids spend the night/weekend at the grandparents', even though they know neither one has shown any willingness to be away from mama at night. they expect me to force them to cry it out and stay there, that i'm "coddling" them because i won't, should have weaned dd1 much earlier than i did (4 3/4), she's clingy because of me, would have been much more independent if.... never mind that dd2 is so independent that i have to make sure she doesn't wander away, and she's been raised the same way.

i'm also brainwashing my husband into paying the mortgage on our bay area house, instead of leaving my lifelong friends here and moving to tule fog filled/110 degree sacramento where my BIL lives, where houses are cheaper. oh, and i lounge around the house 6 days a week (i work 1 day/wk) instead of working full time and sticking the kids in day care.

my point is IL's will always have opinions and feel free to impose them on you, and the longer you've been in the family the easier it gets. and the blank stare or repeated "let's not discuss that, because we don't agree." helps.

so, valarie, if you haven't had kids yet, remember you'll be particularly receptive/sensitive to criticism when you first do, and they've actually done you a favor by letting you know up front that they're not going to support you, so that you know to line up support and resources elsewhere and keep the IL's out of your decisions.


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## Fruitful4Him (Jun 22, 2002)

Yeah.. my family is like this too. It really is difficult.. but what makes it easier is that my dh is very supportive and has my back. I try not to attend "family functions" without him anymore because it stresses me out THAT BAD. I actually think certain family members get perverse pleasure out of starting arguements over these things.







: Why is it that simply because of linked genetics, family members think that they don't have to treat you with the simple respect and kindness you would give a stranger or casual aquaintance?

I am sorry you had to sit through that.. stay true to what you know is right for you and your family. Take back up if you have to.


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## ValarieR (Nov 8, 2006)

Thanks for the support







I know that IL's are often terrible, at least my MIL is amazing!

My mom is very mainstream, and MIL is super-crunchy... I'll be calling her when I go into labor, I'll be calling my mom after MIL arrives!

Thanks again









~Valarie~


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## gratefulbambina (Mar 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ambrose* 
Well, DH and I had sex when dd was 3 months old and cosleeping. She was so asleep that she didn't budge and actually snored!







We were super duper quite.

I never knew my sex life was so boring that one could snore through it.


















We've had that happen too

OP Im sorry that your dinner went so horribly







It does get better or easier to deal with in time. When my first child was born I heard all of this and also everything that "seemed" wrong or if she was ever fussy it was always blamed on because I was nursing. I swear I think for my daughters first year of life I spent argueing and proving points to people.

I've also found that nurses are the WORST with parenting advice and always the first to give their advice.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

as you might have noticed from my pp, this thread hit a nerve! i was mulling it over later, and realized that the threat IL's with opposing opinions pose is worry that they'll influence your partner's opinions (which is also the fear they have about you, that you'll supplant them). it's not like they can take your child away, or drag you off to a hospital. but if they start or promote conflict between you and dh, then that's the problem.

so being on the same page with your dh, and making sure they know it, and having him show his support of you to them (without necesarily engaging in point specific debate) are the keys to getting them to butt out.

18 years experience and practice speaking here, including counseling on just this issue!


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## phoebemommy (Mar 30, 2006)

I've got the nurse-aunt with no kids who gives parenting advice. too. She's also emotionally manipulative, if you know what I mean -- gets you on the phone and has a psychic clamp on your ear and it's really hard to get away. I no longer play the game, I'm assertive about showing my disinterest,and it just makes her more aggressive in giving me her gems of wisdom, like we'll all perish if she doesn't tell me her miracle tricks of getting a baby to sleep (tricks that would only piss off my ds). It's not like her advice is that far out, but it's how she pushes it, how she throws around terms like "nipple nazi", and how she tells dh about what I should be doing with my body. She's gone as far as to lecture dh about proper latch technique, and to tell him my midwife was dead wrong (like, endangering me, even) by saying I should stay in bed for 5 days after birth.

I avoid her phone calls like they're an infectious disease, but we're going to visit in a couple weeks. I can't WAIT to hear her opine about co-sleeping, vax, and circ! I've told my dh that he's the spokesman for our family, and I'm prepping myself to tell her she's making me uncomfortable. I'm stll full of dread about the trip, though. I'm not ready to make it. I'm only doing it for my dh.

Also, I have to remind myself that it's all quietly revolutionary. If we can all survive and thrive by going against the advice of the medical establishment, then we shake up the worlds of the people who believe in it.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

good luck, pheobemommy, i feel your pain!

ever try going even farther out crunchy wise, to a point where she's no longer certain if you're pulling her leg, then laugh and say affectionately, "oh, auntie, you're so cute when you're all riled up!" and don't give her the satisfaction of knowing she's making you uncomfortable. she'll also be left uncertain of exactly what you're doing, which makes it hard to pontificate.


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## ValarieR (Nov 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
as you might have noticed from my pp, this thread hit a nerve! i was mulling it over later, and realized that the threat IL's with opposing opinions pose is worry that they'll influence your partner's opinions (which is also the fear they have about you, that you'll supplant them). it's not like they can take your child away, or drag you off to a hospital. but if they start or promote conflict between you and dh, then that's the problem.

so being on the same page with your dh, and making sure they know it, and having him show his support of you to them (without necesarily engaging in point specific debate) are the keys to getting them to butt out.

18 years experience and practice speaking here, including counseling on just this issue!









Thanks for the advice. I talked with DH about this, and we're totally on the same page.

~Valarie~


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## janerose (May 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ValarieR* 
parents sleeping with babies have to have sex in front of their kids...

You know we *have* had sex in front of our daughter. She's 2 years old now & for the first 6 months of her life pretty much every time we had sex was with her asleep in the crib attached sidecar to our bed.

Honestly, her bedroom attaches to ours & it's not unheard of even now for her to be playing in her room in the morning while DH & I are still catching some zzzz's and we'll end up having a quickie -- under the covers, while she's in her room (but with the door open to our room), usually "spooning" since anything else would be WAY too obvious.

I just don't see the big deal about this.







I mean, it's not like a baby knows what you're doing anyway you know? Even now at 2 we just stop if she walks into the room. No biggie. Obviously as she becomes more aware we become more and more discreet & soon I'm sure we'll just stop all together.

IMHO, people are *way* too caught up on the whole sex thing. In most of the world large families live in little tiny houses or even one room tents or huts. How do we all think they have more kids?









Oh, and don't even get me going on the whole topic of why it's assume sex has to be in the bedroom in the first place...

Holly


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## Usually Curious (Apr 26, 2006)

I agree with Holly. What is the big deal? An *infant* has no idea what you're doing.

An interesting note... in Judaism, parents should not have sex with a child in the room after the child is able to talk. Makes sense to me, I wouldn't want my child to tell the world what goes on in our bedroom.

I wonder what they do in countries like Africa where they all sleep in the same room? I imagine those children are not scarred by seeing their parents wiggling under the covers. APers are always lifting up the more 'natural' parenting in those third world countries but then I find out that none of you will have sex with your babes in the room, haha.


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

mine are equal if not worse.

i loooooove parenting advice from a gruff 50 year old male who has no children (Grace of God there)....................and we an active 12 month old i have sooooooooooooooooo much time to wait hand and foot on my 70 year old mil who won't get off her fat a$$..................

I hear you


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## phoebemommy (Mar 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Usually Curious* 
I agree with Holly. What is the big deal? An *infant* has no idea what you're doing.

An interesting note... in Judaism, parents should not have sex with a child in the room after the child is able to talk. Makes sense to me, I wouldn't want my child to tell the world what goes on in our bedroom.

I wonder what they do in countries like Africa where they all sleep in the same room? I imagine those children are not scarred by seeing their parents wiggling under the covers. APers are always lifting up the more 'natural' parenting in those third world countries but then I find out that none of you will have sex with your babes in the room, haha.

I've thought this, too, what's the big deal? If you had sex at all while you were pregnant, the baby was way more intimately involved than if he's in a nearby bassinette or whatever.


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## ladybugchild77 (Jun 18, 2004)

nak

op - i too have family and in-laws like that and am sorry you have to deal with it too...you ar enot alone! it does get easier the more time that goes by - now that i have two kids my family has pretty much backed off and leaves me alone. it was tough at first with dd#1 - the first 6 months of her life were spent defending my choices - until i reminded myself that i don't have to justify myself or parenting chouces to anyone. i actually told my own other and mil that they had their turn to raise their kids and now it was my turn to do it the way i wanted just like they had the opportunity to do. i was not mean about it and they both backe doff. take care and goo dluck ttc!


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## thefragile7393 (Jun 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
as you might have noticed from my pp, this thread hit a nerve! i was mulling it over later, and realized that the threat IL's with opposing opinions pose is worry that they'll influence your partner's opinions (which is also the fear they have about you, that you'll supplant them). it's not like they can take your child away, or drag you off to a hospital. but if they start or promote conflict between you and dh, then that's the problem.

so being on the same page with your dh, and making sure they know it, and having him show his support of you to them (without necesarily engaging in point specific debate) are the keys to getting them to butt out.

Unfortunately, my husband will usually listen to anyone else BUT me. I'm the crazy one who reads too much, according to him.


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## spirit4ever (Nov 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ValarieR* 
Thanks for the support







I know that IL's are often terrible, at least my MIL is amazing!

My mom is very mainstream, and MIL is super-crunchy... I'll be calling her when I go into labor, I'll be calling my mom after MIL arrives!

Thanks again









~Valarie~

I'm glad your mil is crunchy! I don't deal with my dh's family very much.. but I can just imagine what it is like..


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## caricandothis (May 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefragile7393* 
Unfortunately, my husband will usually listen to anyone else BUT me. I'm the crazy one who reads too much, according to him.

Ditto.







It's really difficult, isn't it?


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## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Usually Curious* 
An interesting note... in Judaism, parents should not have sex with a child in the room after the child is able to talk. Makes sense to me, I wouldn't want my child to tell the world what goes on in our bedroom.

Actually, that only applies while they are awake. You are allowed to have sex in the same room with a sleeping child, even one that can talk.


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## Mrs. Cheerful Face (Apr 4, 2006)

I have found that its not what we (dh & I) say but how things have played out. My bro. and his wife (will die before I say sil) have gone main stream whole hog, while we continue to blaze a diff. read= gross path of bohem. degredation (thanx mom) And you know what? My folks won't spend more than three days at bro. house, my dad comes home tearing hair out and procaliming virtues of vasectomy. WE, (the kids and I) are continually invited to their home for several WEEKS (not that we can take it) and accompany them on trips around the USA (they pay) Now, I would never hear either my mom or dad say one positive comment about how we do things, but who are they hanging out with??? Mom, to her credit has mentioned my gentle tone of voice with dc (but I really should , shouldn't I) and mentioned how pleased they are about the dc behavior around other grownups (inspite of homeschooling all day) So I'll take it, its not a lot,but its a start. They sure have mellowed in the last ten years...

Mrs. Cheerful Face- who has a strict policy about who our family sees for the holidays


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## Levi'smom26 (Dec 1, 2006)

I just wanted to let you know that I can totally relate to our IL probs. My IL probs started when I first got preggers - they were totally against homebirth. They felt that we were putting our child's life in danger with a homebirth. Then after a safe birth (can you believe it!) the co-sleeping and nursing issues started. My son is now 14 months and still nurses quite frequently. My MIL thinks that my son won't be independent because he gets to nurse whenever he wants to and because he sleeps with us. Now I'm starting to notice in addition to these issues that discipline is going to be an issue. The IL are starting to tell my child "no-no" over everything and they expect him to comply. What will be next? I think issues will just keep coming up forever. Thank goodness I have my husbands support as well as my own family.


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## J's Mombee (Aug 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimid* 
Yeah, we get simialr crap. I've perfected the blank stare that makes it look like I'm listening. We've learned to pretty much not talk about it.

roflmao... i am going to try that


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## J's Mombee (Aug 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GypsyGrin* 
I had an RN explain that the baby should be allowed to only nurse for 7 minutes on each side. At 7 minutes one should start flicking the child in the cheek with your finger to get it to lose his/her latch, and switch to the other side or move the child off.

(I really hope no one actually listens to this cr*p.)

roflmao... u have got to be kidding me...


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## J's Mombee (Aug 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
good luck, pheobemommy, i feel your pain!

ever try going even farther out crunchy wise, to a point where she's no longer certain if you're pulling her leg, then laugh and say affectionately, "oh, auntie, you're so cute when you're all riled up!" and don't give her the satisfaction of knowing she's making you uncomfortable. she'll also be left uncertain of exactly what you're doing, which makes it hard to pontificate.

i love mdc esp. this thread... i am gonna try all of this with mil


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## ericswifey27 (Feb 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 

so, valarie, if you haven't had kids yet, remember you'll be particularly receptive/sensitive to criticism when you first do, and they've actually done you a favor by letting you know up front that they're not going to support you, so that you know to line up support and resources elsewhere and keep the IL's out of your decisions.

That is excellent advice


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## J's Mombee (Aug 21, 2006)

I had no idea there was a forum like this... my haitian mil and I were okay til my ds was born... now it feels like we are at war... I know that she is shocked, bc I was usually so passive. But I really thank God that when I birthed ds, I found my voice and a stronger backbone (to esp protect my ds with). My dh is an only child & has the STUPIDEST DySfUnCtOnAl relationship with his mom post baby... I really don't know what to do... I suggested TX, my MIL laughed... my dh is willing... so we're on our way...

-L


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## eviesingleton (Jan 18, 2007)

I'll take some of the non-gross diapers that they imply are out there.

I am in graduate school and I know plenty of women who are raising children; one was a single mom who has since left school (for reasons not related to childcare). Indeed, there is a saying among some women in the academy that the best time to have a baby is during your dissertation or thesis or after you get tenure.

Any time someone makes a crack about breastfeeding in public being gross or inappropirate, I kindly point out that their eating noises make me want to impale myself on a popsicle stick but I would never suggest they eat in the bathroom.


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