# There is something wrong with the world...



## zexplorers (May 4, 2004)

When this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=4333231132

goes for almost as much as this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW








I just don't get it. Not that it isn't nice but there's no comparison in the amount of work that went into making them.....


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## binxsmom (Jun 14, 2004)

weird. those pants of yvon's should have gone for WAY more.


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## Max's Mami (May 25, 2003)

Do you mean because you think not as much work went into the first pair compared to the second pair?

I think its because of the measurements of the second pair. The wahm said the measurements were a bit off so maybe people think they wont fit their baby.


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## Sugarwoman (Mar 12, 2004)

I am shocked that Yvon's pants went for such a low price.


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## imp&pixie (May 6, 2004)

Yeah, I was watching that BJM auction because I love our BJM pants. I am shocked at the price they are going for especially since you can get them for $30 shipped from Soft Cloth Bunz. The Storm pants are really a work of art and she should be getting more for them.


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## zexplorers (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Max's Mami*
Do you mean because you think not as much work went into the first pair compared to the second pair?

I think its because of the measurements of the second pair. The wahm said the measurements were a bit off so maybe people think they wont fit their baby.


Yes. I would have bid the Yvon's but they were too girly for even me to put on DS!!! She put so much work into them - they should have gotten a better price.

You can custom order the BJM ones - the exact same one for about $35 why would someone pay $53???


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## dr.j (May 14, 2003)

Hmmm...I agree that it's probably because the one pair is more gender neutral and the other is really girly. Also, the wool on the pink pair is thick, so that might not appeal as much to moms in warmer climates.
I almost bid on those BJ Market ones but didn't because the price was too high.


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## Tiskin (Jul 5, 2004)

:LOL actualy I like the bj pants better. I think the second pair is kinda tacky.







:


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## ~Scapegoat~ (Jul 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zexplorers*
You can custom order the BJM ones - the exact same one for about $35 why would someone pay $53???

Thats exactly what I was thinking, more then likely you dont even need to custom order them you just need to ask if they are in stock.


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## kindmomma (Sep 18, 2002)

The second pair one leg looks shorter than the other. Plus I agree with the girly aspect. Both very nice, but one is girly


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## didelphus (May 25, 2003)

Gosh the blackberry longies are gorgeous! Had I seen them ds would certainly be wearing pink!


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## Spark (Nov 21, 2001)

I should have been watching!!! I should have been bidding!!!







My daughter should have been wearing those!!!!!


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## ckhagen (Sep 6, 2004)

I wanted those BJM pants soo bad! Especially since I've been moaning and pouting since I lost the Good Night Moon recycled ones a couple weeks ago due to DHs ebay ineptness. I have a thing for moons and stars and especially blue and yellow. I hopped on to try and swipe them up this eve for what I figured would be about $30 and I was SHOCKED when they were 50-something! I freaked out and was like... heck no I'm not paying almost $60 when I could have a pair custom done for that. I'm sad that I didn't get them though. That's what I hate about Ebay. The person with the most money always wins.


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## Mrs Dimples (Apr 17, 2004)

Well, you can all rest easy knowing why the BJM pants went for so much!







: My DH spent all my paypal last well (with my reluctant permission







: ) and he felt bad...he knew I had been watching those pants (I am a sucker for SOFT wool, plus they would match my custom Moss Feet shoes that are on their way to me







) and so he snuck in and bought them for me! Sweet man, doesn't understand that $55 is way too much to pay for BJM longies. :LOL He knows that longies cost that much (generally) and he really wanted to get them for me. That said, he bid at the last second and they were very near that price anyway, so it isn't all his doing. I am sorry to everyone he sniped, but isn't that a good story? I have been following this thread all day, because while I absolutely admire the artistry and the hand-craftsmanship of the Storm in the Attic pair, I really just was kind of smitten with the BJM pair. They look like they are going to fit perfectly, and they are such a lovely color to match my son's eyes, and they are subtly embellished, which is so my style. So now the mystery is solved! And I can watch my mailbox again!


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## meco (Mar 1, 2004)

Well, Yvon's are obviously gorgeous!














And the detail is quite exquiste. That said, I have a boy







and I like plain stuff







: So I did not bid...I love them though, LOVE thm









The others are cute, I love the motif









And after reading the PP's story







even better!

They would work better for us as well--manly and all! :LOL


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## binxsmom (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mrs Dimples*
Well, you can all rest easy knowing why the BJM pants went for so much!







: My DH spent all my paypal last well (with my reluctant permission







: ) and he felt bad...he knew I had been watching those pants (I am a sucker for SOFT wool, plus they would match my custom Moss Feet shoes that are on their way to me







) and so he snuck in and bought them for me! Sweet man, doesn't understand that $55 is way too much to pay for BJM longies. :LOL He knows that longies cost that much (generally) and he really wanted to get them for me. That said, he bid at the last second and they were very near that price anyway, so it isn't all his doing. I am sorry to everyone he sniped, but isn't that a good story? I have been following this thread all day, because while I absolutely admire the artistry and the hand-craftsmanship of the Storm in the Attic pair, I really just was kind of smitten with the BJM pair. They look like they are going to fit perfectly, and they are such a lovely color to match my son's eyes, and they are subtly embellished, which is so my style. So now the mystery is solved! And I can watch my mailbox again!









that is so incredibly sweet!!!!!! i am just so in awe of a man who would be attentive enough to buy a diaper cover. i'm lovin it!


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## Mrs Dimples (Apr 17, 2004)

Yes, I am quite flabbergasted myself! I have been kind of stressed out the last couple of days and he is just trying to help the best way he knows how. Well, it worked, I feel much better!


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## zexplorers (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *binxsmom*
that is so incredibly sweet!!!!!! i am just so in awe of a man who would be attentive enough to buy a diaper cover. i'm lovin it!











Now I feel bad for starting this post - I'd never take away from a man who's being nice to his wife and son!!!!







Although he wasn't the bidder who bid it up so high to begin with ..... He's the sweetie who got them for you!!!! We want pics of the longies and the shoes!!! WTG Mr Dimples!!!!


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## Pigpen (Dec 12, 2002)

Yay for your hubby!!
I have to say that I don't even try for ones that I assume will go out of my price range...now I regret it! I spend $60-70 on longies because they're worth it (so much time and energy goes into them). If I thought I could get Storm in the Attic's for that, I would definately have been watching!







:


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## dr.j (May 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mrs Dimples*
Yes, I am quite flabbergasted myself! I have been kind of stressed out the last couple of days and he is just trying to help the best way he knows how. Well, it worked, I feel much better!










Um, does he want to have a chat with my DH about how to destress his wife?








You should definitely post a pic of the longies on your little one once you get them. I







the design on them.


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## ckhagen (Sep 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dr.j*
Um, does he want to have a chat with my DH about how to destress his wife?








You should definitely post a pic of the longies on your little one once you get them. I







the design on them.

Yeah, and can he have one with mine about actually pushing the right buttons when you're bidding so you don't lose a bid by 15 CENTS, on something your wife desperately wants, when she's been begging you to keep an eye on it all day!?

Let's just say I'm still mad at him over that (another longie auction a couple weeks ago).


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## Mrs Dimples (Apr 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zexplorers*
Now I feel bad for starting this post - I'd never take away from a man who's being nice to his wife and son!!!!







Although he wasn't the bidder who bid it up so high to begin with ..... He's the sweetie who got them for you!!!! We want pics of the longies and the shoes!!! WTG Mr Dimples!!!!

Oh, don't worry, you didn't know! Actually, I didn't know when you started the thread either, and I was wondering the same things. I guess those BJM ones just hit the spot for a lot of people, but I agree the others are "worth" much more. I will TRY to post pics when i get them, and pics of my fairy stuff that I still haven't done.







:


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## DreamingMama (Apr 18, 2003)

It is nice and flat and does not have lumpy stuff all over it. Everyone likes things differently so I guess that is why some would prefer one over the other. Does not mean one is worth less then the other though. Thing is when you put items on an auction you can either not sell it or it will go so insanely high that it seems ludicrious. I hate auctions personally. You can get the Marketplace pants for $30 so whoever is bidding is not in the know of things.


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## imp&pixie (May 6, 2004)

Rachel, you will love the BJM longies! They are the softest most wonderful wool (at least if they are made like the two BJM items I have.) I want more pairs but I am on a buying freeze. Your husband is such a dear to get those for you. I think I would faint if my dh bought fluff for dd.


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## earthchick (Sep 30, 2004)

Mrs. Dimples, what a sweet story about what your dh did!

Makes me feel much better about losing that bid!









I helped drive up the price by getting in a bidding war with stitch425. I wanted those longies so bad - they would've been my first pair. But I knew I shouldn't pay more than about $45 for them. Still I couldn't resist going into the low $50s and once stitch425 came on and outbid me there, I figured I'd just let them go. I'm glad they went to someone on this board!

I have fluffy mail coming later this week, so something to look forward to even though no longies yet!


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## zexplorers (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *earthchick*
Mrs. Dimples, what a sweet story about what your dh did!

Makes me feel much better about losing that bid!









I helped drive up the price by getting in a bidding war with stitch425. I wanted those longies so bad - they would've been my first pair. But I knew I shouldn't pay more than about $45 for them. Still I couldn't resist going into the low $50s and once stitch425 came on and outbid me there, I figured I'd just let them go. I'm glad they went to someone on this board!

I have fluffy mail coming later this week, so something to look forward to even though no longies yet!


Contact Karen of BJM I bet she can get you a custom pair done pretty quick!!!


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## earthchick (Sep 30, 2004)

Thanks Susan!









I'm still new to the world of wool soakers - and especially new to the world of longies - so am still learning what prices are good, etc. I've never ordered any custom covers but I think it's time for me to take the plunge! Thanks!


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## Benji'sMom (Sep 14, 2004)

They're both cute, but she PICKED HER OWN BLACKBERRIES! That makes the second pair really special, I think.


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## radish (Sep 19, 2002)

You're one lucky mama! And one smart/sweet hubby


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## sovereignqueen (Aug 5, 2004)

yvonne has another luscious pair
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW
so cute, and the story of how she came up w/ the concept is darling.


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## hunnybumm (Nov 1, 2003)

Every has their own opinion as to what they like. I just hate all the negative tones that are in this thread. If you don't like something just saying "I don't care for it personaly" not 'tacky' or 'lumpy stuff', which could make the person who spent hours and hours and hours making it feel bad and unappreciated for her hard work. IMO there is a tactful way to say things and a rude way to say things, unfortunity some people don't know the difference. Yes, I realize I am being 'rude' but I hate to see someones extremely hard and creative work get put up against something like BJM which is pretty much mass produced.

Yvon odviously put so much work, thought and a part of herself into the project. That makes it worth much much more then a pair of pants that are mass produced (eventhough they are hand made). Both are pretty, but not equal in time and effort. I am glad that the buyers of both are happy with their purchaces and both pants will be well loved.


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## Mrs Dimples (Apr 17, 2004)

Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh...worth is in the eye of the beholder, my friends. We place value on the things that we value - WE define it for ourselves. No one else can do that for you.


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## ChattyCat (Sep 7, 2004)

Mrs. dimples, very true... but, I agree with hunnybumm that there are appropriate ways to express our dislike. It is possible to opine without offending others, which I think is something that many of us have forgotten. Our society is not conducive to politeness these days.

Anyway, that is for another forum. Yvon makes absolutely beautiful pants. I would







to own a pair, but I just cannot spend that much. I do love to admire them though. I'm sure the other pants are just fine, but Yvon puts so much care into her work. Even if it is not to your taste, surely you can appreciate the quality and imagination of her design.


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## dr.j (May 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hunnybumm*
Every has their own opinion as to what they like. I just hate all the negative tones that are in this thread.
Yes, I realize I am being 'rude' but I hate to see someones extremely hard and creative work get put up against something like BJM which is pretty much mass produced.

I agree that people shouldn't use negative tones, but I wonder why you only singled out the negative tones used about Yvon's pants. Regardless of whether or not the BJ pants are mass produced, they are knit by women who obviously work hard to produce a nice product. Just because they didn't come up with a totally unique design doesn't mean they didn't put work and thought into their projects. I think it's fine to point out that people should value Yvon's work, but there isn't a need to belittle the work of the women who knit for BJ Marketplace.
It seems to me that we should place value on the work of women who cannot participate in an online community as well as those who can.
A lot of pants and soakers made by WAHMS have similar designs, but I haven't seen posts attacking them for copying each other's designs.
I always seem to end up in the weird position of defending BJ's pants and soakers, even though I've never bought one, and only know what I've read on Ebay about them. I'm just bothered by the way conversations about their products often take on a subtly racist tone (with the inevitable mention of sweatshops and mass production), and never seem to place any value on the work of the knitters. Just because the women probably don't speak English, and cannot come here to speak for themselves doesn't mean it's okay to put down their work as automatically inferior to that of the women who post here.







Mamas.


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## dr.j (May 14, 2003)

Holli,
I wasn't directly referring to your post. I was just responding to the kind of posts that seem to come up every time BJ Marketplace is mentioned. I respect your decision to purchase from MDC mamas. I tend to do the same, as long as I can find what I'm trying to buy from an MDC mom.
I was mostly bothered that a post that claimed to want to end negativity went on to perpetuate the negativity it was criticizing. I also wanted to give the work of the women knitters for BJ's some visibility here, since many posts about their products tends to ignore or belittle their labor. I agree that it would be great if Karen would post pictures of the knitters so we could be sure they have good working conditions. I guess what bothers me is the automatic assumption that just because she doesn't post pictures means her knitters are working in a sweatshop. There are a lot of other sellers on Ebay who don't post pictures of themselves or their working conditions.
Also, my comment about English was not referring to whether or not Yvon's first language was English. It was merely to point out that participation in this community requires at least a minimal fluency in English, as well as internet access, which makes this community a privileged one in terms of the rest of the world.
I'm not defending BJ's business practices. I'm merely trying to acknowledge the labor of the woman who knit the pants Mrs. Dimple's husband bought.


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## hunnybumm (Nov 1, 2003)

First off, Karen does speak English, I have spoken with her through emails a few times. She isnt 100% but she does quite fine in understanding and responding. If she wanted to come here to read and post, she could.

Second, I never critisized the women who make BMJ pants and soakers, I merely said that there isn't as much effort and creativity and time as Yvon puts into her work. When I say "mass produced" I mean there are many that look almost identical. They are each knit by hand by a real live adult, but they don't make each pair 'special'. There just isn't the individual attention to detail that most WAHMs put into their products. Karen has claimed over and over that they are not made in sweat shops, and I believe her, I own a pair of BJM pants and a soaker. They just aren't the quality of a nice custom pair of pants. Why are MM and KSS (among others) so highly vauled? Because they are each an individualy piece of art. If they all looked the same, they wouldn't be so sought after. If you say that isn't so then you aren't being truthful.

Third, I only singled out the negavite tones twords Yvons pants because there were no negative comments about the BJM pants. It was only stated that people thought Yvons were better, that is a very neutral non negavite comment.

Fourth, yes I was being negative because so many people come here and complain about how expensive these wonderful hand dyed, hand knit items are. And say they want the best quality yarn, the softest, prettiest colors, no flaws, hand knit, etc then complain because they are too expensive and many of my 'friends' who knit work so hard and are so under appreciated. Karen may be able to make pants for $40 a piece and make a good living, but with the time it takes a WAHM to purchase the yarn, wash the yarn, dye the yarn (which is a long and tendious process), knit the item, wash and lanolize, and ship the product they make very little money per hour. Not to mention the time involved in developing the pattern, thinking up little creative ideas, embelishing, etc.

I never knew the process involved with making a soaker / shorts / pants and now that I started knitting myself I know that I could probably never have a business of my own. Every project is such a labor of love and with the hourly rate (usually less than $4) it just isn't worth it.


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## dr.j (May 14, 2003)

Thanks for clarifying what you meant in your other post.
I agree with what you're saying, but I guess your point didn't come across as clearly to me in your first post. I didn't see the recognition of the fact that the BJ knitters seem to work hard at what they do, and I suppose it rubbed me wrong since it's something I see happening a lot here. It's good to know you weren't putting down their work (and if I read too much into your post, sorry







). I guess maybe I'm also frustrated that Karen hasn't come here to discuss the knitters (my comment about English was referring to the knitters, but I guess that might be wrong too. My point was that they aren't online here with us, so their labor isn't given a voice).
I definitely agree that we should all appreciate the work that goes into hand-dyed, hand-knit products like those MM and KSS offer. I'm in awe of the work so many of the MDC WAHMs do.
Sorry if my post caused some confusion or hurt any feelings.


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## hunnybumm (Nov 1, 2003)

I have defended BJM many times with all the talk of sweat shops and being machine made, etc. I think of them as being the Kia of wool soakers, they are inexpensive for those who can't afford the more expensive soakers and pants.

I guess I wasn't a little flustered in my first post and wasn't as clear as I could have been.


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## Yummymummy74 (Jun 7, 2004)

HolliI'd love to see pics of the women in China working on these soakers and pants. I'd love to see the conditions. It would then make me feel good to know I was really contributing to their life in a positive way and definitely not in a sweatshop. I would think she would want to celebrate these women! Post their pictures on her website. That would be SO FABULOUS! If I felt ANY connection at all rather than like I was just sending money off into somewhere I had no idea where I would feel SO COOL about it going to help these amazing women in China. I haven't seen any such thing. So said:


> Wow BJ pants are made in China??? gosh I never knew that!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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