# What??? You let your toddler play in his playroom alone for hours?



## CallMeKelly (May 8, 2007)

Ok, not really hours, it has never lasted that long. But a coworker bit into me last year when I said something about DS being up in his playroom by himself. He freaked out, couldn't believe I let DS play unsupervised for as long as he wanted to be alone. (This does not happen all that often and never longer than an hour and a half) He apparently thinks that DS could choke and die ... ummm... break his neck somehow... not sure. The guy has three kids and apparently doesn't leave them alone unless their monitor is turned on.

DS was about two and a half when the conversation happened and he's three now. I haven't forgotten it and just started to wonder if he is just way paranoid and untrusting or am I abnormal? I trust DS to behave and come to me if he needs anything and so far it has worked fine. What age do most people start trusting their kids? The only thing he has ever done was crayon up a wall, and never did it again.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

*sigh*

I'm just jealous of you, my DD would never play by herself (well OK now at 3.5 she does, a bit).
I'm assuming the playroom is sensibly childproofed? I can't see anything wrong with it then.


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## starry_mama (May 26, 2006)

Oh dear. My kids play in their playroom all the time by themselves. And my youngest is 1. Its not like you are leaving them home alone! Its a playroom! Meant to be played in! Thats just silly for someone to think its bad.


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## rolenta (Mar 7, 2006)

My son likes to play by himself (he's only 1) and I have no qualms doing things in another room as long as he's in a toddler-proofed area. All outlets are covered, none of his toys are chokable, and I can hear him talking to himself and tossing his toys around. The worst thing that's ever happened is him bonking his head, but that just happens whether I'm there or not.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

I dont think theres anything wrong with that.......but we have a small apartment, so i can hear every sound in the house and know to get concerned when its dead quiet









ds loves alot of independant play, so he is usually just hanging out in the living room playing by himself, running back and forth from the kitchen, bedroom and hallway.


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## TereasaT (Aug 24, 2004)

DS1 is 5 1/2 yo and DS2 is 2 1/2 yo, and we have let them play in their playroom alone since they were really young. We are usually in the next room so can hear them moving about. I do look in on them from time to time and just join in their fun.

They don't do anything destructive except make a mess with their toys. Although, now that they are both older, they are able to clean up after themselves. As far as choking, DS2 doesn't mouth things. In fact, I have trouble getting him to even put real food in his mouth, let alone unedible objects.


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## mothragirl (Sep 10, 2005)

ummm, are just supposed to follow your kids around all day while they play? i don't see how that would be good for anyone. my dd plays solo all the time, although i have a monitor between floors so i can hear her drawing on the walls.


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## s_kristina (Aug 9, 2004)

I'm not the hovering sort. As soon as my dd was comfortable for even a little bit playing in her room I let her. Since we lived in a small apartment then and a small duplex now it works well. Having the living room floor so over run with toys I can barely walk does nothing to improve my mood when I'm having a bad day.


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## gingerstar (Jun 10, 2005)

Maybe it is a guy thing - I am pretty much like pp in terms of letting little ones play independently, but my DH is always like, where are they? what are they doing? are you keeping an eye on the baby? (who is 20 mos old....)


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## utopia760 (Feb 7, 2007)

if you can trust him and know everything is safe i see no problem with it


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## ryansma (Sep 6, 2006)

My ds plays alone for a considerable amount of time each day. If he is upstairs in the playroom I stay up there too - in the office or in my bedroom getting things done. I basically try to stay on the same floor as him but that is because of his age and his tendency to decide to go down the stairs in a split second. I can see me leaving him for longer periods when he is a little older. It's all about your comfort level and knowing your dc. Maybe that guys kids are climbers and stick stuff up their noses??







Or he's just paranoid.


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## Lia & Eva's Mama (Jul 10, 2007)

we live in a bungalow so my girls get free roam of the house. i think its ok and fosters positive play. i see nothing wrong with with it.


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## fiorio (Aug 30, 2006)

I will let DS play in his playroom/bedroom alone for as long as he wants, but I do peek in and check on him at least every 15 minutes, more often if there is a suspicious silence.

I think it may have something to do with not fully understanding what the child is capable of and their maturity level. My DH is the same way. One time when DS was about 27 months we were getting ready to go somewhere (at the time we had a 2-floor apartment). DH was just getting out of the shower upstairs and I was up there ironing. He gets all panicked and asks "Who is watching DS???" I said "Umm...DS is watching DS."







He was completely shocked that I would leave DS alone in a room...uh, how does he think I manage to do anything around the house? DH also thinks that you can't take a shower or make a phone call with DS around...strange man.


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## DiannaK (Jul 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calidris* 
*sigh*

I'm just jealous of you, my DD would never play by herself (well OK now at 3.5 she does, a bit).
I'm assuming the playroom is sensibly childproofed? I can't see anything wrong with it then.

Amen to that .... my lil gal doesn't play by herself long either.

If my girls were engrossed in something that kept them busy .. I'd check in on them every so often, then get some chores done!


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## meisterfrau (Sep 24, 2005)

My 2 1/2 year old DD loves to sit in her room and listen to music. She'll either "read" her books or build with her blocks while it's on. I check in on her every once in a while, but she's mostly on her own by her choice. I think it's fine.


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## naturegirl7 (Jan 27, 2005)

Honestly, I can see where that guy was coming from....

My DS is just 2, and honestly I always make sure he is within eyesight of me - but we live in a small, really open apartment. I can be cooking in the kitchen and still watch him play in the living room and dining room. I don't trust him to be alone in there if I am in the bedroom for any length of time and would never hop in the shower and leave him out there. I just know him and know it would not be safe.
Climber doesn't even begin to describe my son - he is a monkey. I have watched him scale the entertainment center, scale his play kitchen to see out the window above it, climb up onto the dining room table to get stuff/look out a window/dance, scale the kitchen drawers to get onto the counter. The one and only time I left him to play in the bedroom while I showered in the ajacent bathroom - I came out 5 minutes later to find him on top of the computer desk, standing on the printer, bouncing up and down, pointing out the window screaming DUCK DUCK DUCK DUCK!!!! I still don't understand how he got up there since I took away the chair first.... I barely made it across the room in time to catch him as he fell.
usually DS doesn't eat things or put them in his mouth - unless he is teething, then he will chew on anything he can find - even outside I have to watch him closely cuz he will decide that sticks and rocks make nice teethers. When he is teething, he will gnaw on books, puzzle pieces, wood blocks (once he shaved a piece right off his block!) and needs to be reminded what appropriate teethers are. My son also enjoys throwing toys at this stage - great cause and effect learning but not great since I buy him mainly wooden toys.
Also I like being able to interact with him if I see an opportunity for incidental learning. I firmly believe incidental learning is the best kind of learning, especially for babies, toddlers, and young children. I would miss many opportunities to promote self learning and discovery and many opportunities just to observe him at play and enjoy how amazing he is. Plus it gives him the opportunity to see momma doing daily chores and to help out if he wants.

Also I acknowledge that my son is a toddler and I trust him to explore and test out everything he comes in contact with. That is his job as a toddler. Until he is older and can cognitively process the concepts of right and wrong - I would not trust him to be alone or to supervise himself. IMO, it is developmentally speaking a very unrealistic expectation.
Our son is mature and intellectually advanced for his age, but ,as I tell DH several times a day, he is still only 2 and needs to be treated like a 2 year old not a 7 or 8 year old. Sometimes I think it is his maturity and intellect that get him into these sticky situations - it is amazing to watch him problem solve HOW to get to something he wants or how to get around a situation....

*Maybe* if we had a playroom I would feel differently cuz I could eliminate so many hazards. But until then I settle for independent play within eyesight. Safer that way for all of us


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starry_mama* 
Oh dear. My kids play in their playroom all the time by themselves. And my youngest is 1. Its not like you are leaving them home alone! Its a playroom! Meant to be played in! Thats just silly for someone to think its bad.









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## glorified_rice (Jun 5, 2005)

I let my son play by himself as much as he wants to, which is usually no more than 20 minutes at a time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it as long as the surroundings are safe. I think the opposite is probably worse. It must get old being little and constantly watched.


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## *Karen* (Jul 28, 2006)

I let DS play in his playroom by himself for as long as he wants to. But I am usually within earshot. He is a lot younger than your DS though.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

I've always let my kids play for as long as they want by themselves. For us that meant that dd would be in the playroom starting at 1 for up to 30 mintues. Now at 2.5, she'll play for up to two hours without invervention from me (though I do check up on her.) For ds who is 4 months and crawling, it means I put some toys on the floor and let him go, only intervening when he's really frustrated, close to getting hurt and to take the hair out of his hands (we need a better vacuum!)


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

My DS has always been happy to [play by himself. Even now, when he needs a break from his sister, he will go in his room and close his door. Doesn't even make much mess, just drives his trains.

DD... well... I don't know how much i will be able to trust her for a while yet. She is quite active and I might leave her in a very babyproofed room for a bit, but she would need a bit more supervision than DS


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## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

My boys share a bedroom. I send them upstairs every night to play while I make dinner. They don't always play together, and the 2yo ends up roaming around the rooms up there. I don't care what they do, there's nothing really that they can get hurt on. If I had to be watching them, with my eyes actually focused on them all.the.time, how would I ever get anything done? They wouldn't eat, b/c I wouldn't be able to make a meal. And they wouldn't have clean clothes, b/c I wouldn't be able to wash their clothes. And I'd never be able to pee............

Kids need their space, and so does mom, and it's highly valuable for our children to be able to see us in our daily routine and work.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

It's fashionable right now to believe that children are going to die from being alone in well-prepared playroom. But I don't believe it will stand the test of time, and I'm not much into fads.


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## Ambrose (Apr 20, 2004)

DD will play in her bedroom anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours after she wakes up in the morning before she wants to join the rest of the world. A lot of times she'll go play on her own for another hour later on in the day. I have no problem with this. I'm not going to encroach on her want of independence. She's done this since about 1.5 and she'll be 3 in a couple weeks. I get sad sometimes that she doesn't want to be around people but I respect her need to personal time. Just as I appreciate the personal time I get to go pee once in awhile.


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

My 5 year old and my 3 year old are currently playing by themselves outside on the front sidewalk two doors down.

Someone call the authorities.


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## Ambrose (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Demeter9* 
My 5 year old and my 3 year old are currently playing by themselves outside on the front sidewalk two doors down.

Someone call the authorities.


-picks up a phone and dials a number-

- 'Hello?'

- 'Hey, authorities!! Demeter9's kids are playing outside!!'


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## CallMeKelly (May 8, 2007)

Glad to hear I'm not alone!


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ambrose* 
-picks up a phone and dials a number-

- 'Hello?'

- 'Hey, authorities!! Demeter9's kids are playing outside!!'










Exactly! It is a little unnerving though. I fell asleep the other day with DD (long night, pregnancy etc) and after about 25 minutes, my neighbor phoned me "your DS, my grandson and I are going for a walk down to the playground, ok?"

I was all "Huh? DS is watching TV!" but apparently he had gotten bored and gone to the next door neighbor's house because he saw her grandson playing outside and wanted to play too. (we share a gate) New rule in the house? Shoes on, and *tell* mommy you're going outside, even if I'm asleep.


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## blissful_maia (Feb 17, 2005)

We have a bungalow, so no stairs, and I have no problems with letting my dds play together or alone in their childproofed bedroom. That's what it's there for. I would never get anything done if I insisted on staring at them all day long!


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## Ambrose (Apr 20, 2004)

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## awinkler (Jul 26, 2005)

I think it just depends on the kids... I mean, there's only so much a parent can do to protect their children. Plus people have different parenting styles... it sounds like what you're doing is good for your kids, and that's what counts!


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

It deppends on the kid.

I had a space I thought was toddler proof for DS to play. It was a hallway with no wires, lamps, outlets, furniture, etc. All that was there were a few toys, so he could play while I used the bathroom. I even had dreams of showering.

So, he is happily playing for the first time alone while I get to use the bathroom in blissful peace, and what do I find when I come out...

He is pulling the base board off the wall







: , exposing nails ancient paint and lord only knows what.

With DS there is no such thing as babyproof.

Basically like your coworker I must watch DS every minute of everyday. The only time I dare leave him unsupervised is if he is sleeping, and that can't even be for long b/c he wakes up if he doesn't get cuddled.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

When my kids were small, I was somewhat of a "hoverer," I guess.

I'm not comfortable letting toddlers play out of sight and where I can't hear them. My kids played by themselves (meaning, I wasn't playing with them), but not unsupervised. They might be in the next room, but I wouldn't like my 2yo to be upstairs where I can't see or hear what's going on.

My oldest DS decided it would be a good idea to open the bottom drawer of his bureau and step in it in order to reach something on top. It tipped over. If I hadn't been in the room, he could have been seriously hurt. I was 22 and thought the room was babyproofed. I didn't think I had to tie/bolt the furniture to the wall or floor.

So far, they appear to have emerged unscathed from my overprotectiveness.


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## JessSC (Jan 26, 2007)

I love the fact that my kids play so well in their rooms or playroom by themselves, or together. We have an open floorplan, so I can pretty much hear everything if I'm in the kitchen or livingroom.

For example, my 5 year old is upstairs with me in the bonus room while my 2 year old is downstairs watching Wiggles Christmas DVD by himself. If he gets hurt (like bumping his head) I'll hear him cry. But I bet you anything that he is standing in front of the TV dancing right now. The worst thing that he can do is dump out the inch of water that is in the dog's water bowl since I'm now remembering I didn't put it up. But he's probably not even noticed it.









I think husbands can be more paranoid. The other day, I climbed into the shower with my Dh. He looked at me, surprised, and said, "But who's watching Jayce?" Um, Jayce is watching Jayce







He said, "Is that a smart idea to leave him unsupervised?" I answered back, "Um, how do you think I get a shower during the day while you are at work???"


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## gingerstar (Jun 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
When my kids were small, I was somewhat of a "hoverer," I guess.

I'm not comfortable letting toddlers play out of sight and where I can't hear them. My kids played by themselves (meaning, I wasn't playing with them), but not unsupervised. They might be in the next room, but I wouldn't like my 2yo to be upstairs where I can't see or hear what's going on.

My oldest DS decided it would be a good idea to open the bottom drawer of his bureau and step in it in order to reach something on top. It tipped over. If I hadn't been in the room, he could have been seriously hurt. I was 22 and thought the room was babyproofed. I didn't think I had to tie/bolt the furniture to the wall or floor.

So far, they appear to have emerged unscathed from my overprotectiveness.

OMG I am glad you were there! I have heard of that kind of thing happening - people say, but (s)he's not a climber.... they don't have to be a climber to pull things over on themselves!

Like Jess, we have an open floorplan, and we have a small ranch house, so I am never far. I am not comfortable being on a different floor - if I go to the basement, my little one comes with me.


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CallMeKelly* 
Ok, not really hours, it has never lasted that long. But a coworker bit into me last year when I said something about DS being up in his playroom by himself. He freaked out, couldn't believe I let DS play unsupervised for as long as he wanted to be alone. (This does not happen all that often and never longer than an hour and a half) He apparently thinks that DS could choke and die ... ummm... break his neck somehow... not sure. The guy has three kids and apparently doesn't leave them alone unless their monitor is turned on.

DS was about two and a half when the conversation happened and he's three now. I haven't forgotten it and just started to wonder if he is just way paranoid and untrusting or am I abnormal? I trust DS to behave and come to me if he needs anything and so far it has worked fine. What age do most people start trusting their kids? The only thing he has ever done was crayon up a wall, and never did it again.

With all due respect, and though I do not agree with the WAY in which your coworker reacted, I do agree with his basic judgment: I think that leaving a 2.5 year old child alone *upstairs* in a playroom for 1.5 hours or anywhere close to it is an unsafe choice, especially when you cannot hear him (as you could not if you were downstairs, I am assuming). If his playroom were right next to where you were generally going to be, such as the room off the kitchen, it would be different, but the situation you're describing (you downstairs for an hour and a half away from your child who is upstairs) strikes me as unsafe.

You may "trust DS to behave and come to you," but the fact is, your DS may not obey because children do not always do what we say, or at least mine doesn't. Maybe yours is more obedient.

Even if he is perfectly obedient, your child may be choking and unable to come to you. He may be injured and unable to come to you. He may have fallen off something, or something may have fallen on him. He may have decided to climb under the mattress and gotten trapped; he may have gotten his head in the blinds or the blind cords, and so on and so on.

Bottom line, I agree. I'm sure the Child Freedom Police will probably take my head off for saying so, but as a parent, I believe it's way better to be safe than sorry. You only have one of that child. Is it really worth it to leave him unsupervised?

Just my opinion.


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
When my kids were small, I was somewhat of a "hoverer," I guess.

I'm not comfortable letting toddlers play out of sight and where I can't hear them. My kids played by themselves (meaning, I wasn't playing with them), but not unsupervised. They might be in the next room, but I wouldn't like my 2yo to be upstairs where I can't see or hear what's going on.

My oldest DS decided it would be a good idea to open the bottom drawer of his bureau and step in it in order to reach something on top. It tipped over. If I hadn't been in the room, he could have been seriously hurt. I was 22 and thought the room was babyproofed. I didn't think I had to tie/bolt the furniture to the wall or floor.

So far, they appear to have emerged unscathed from my overprotectiveness.

Good for you.


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## Mothra (Jun 4, 2002)

My oldest and youngest stopped taking naps around a year. All naps completely ceased. I still put them in their rooms for a few hours each afternoon to play. Sometimes they would fall asleep while playing, mostly not. But they needed that time alone just as much as a kid who napped, I felt. Their rooms were more like big cribs, no furniture. Well, ds had a bed, but my daughter slept on a futon mattress on the floor until about age 2. I could hear them if they cried, but I couldn't hear every noise out of their mouths.

Choking on the cords of the blinds (which could not have happened in my children's rooms) or choking on anything, really, takes only an instant. Granted, the longer you are away from a child the more instances they have the opportunity to do such a thing. However, I'm not in any way convinced that letting a child play in a childproofed room for an hour or so alone, being checked on periodically, is inherently unsafe.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

DD (21 months) Can't be trusted alone. She is a little monkey. It's amazing what she can climb and destroy. She can open doors by herself now, too, so its not like she would be in only one room playing. She wouldn't let me leave her alone for more than a second, anyway. She protests if I shut the bathroom door, even if she is busy playing.


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## CallMeKelly (May 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 
With all due respect, and though I do not agree with the WAY in which your coworker reacted, I do agree with his basic judgment: I think that leaving a 2.5 year old child alone *upstairs* in a playroom for 1.5 hours or anywhere close to it is an unsafe choice, especially when you cannot hear him (as you could not if you were downstairs, I am assuming). If his playroom were right next to where you were generally going to be, such as the room off the kitchen, it would be different, but the situation you're describing (you downstairs for an hour and a half away from your child who is upstairs) strikes me as unsafe.

You may "trust DS to behave and come to you," but the fact is, your DS may not obey because children do not always do what we say, or at least mine doesn't. Maybe yours is more obedient.

Even if he is perfectly obedient, your child may be choking and unable to come to you. He may be injured and unable to come to you. He may have fallen off something, or something may have fallen on him. He may have decided to climb under the mattress and gotten trapped; he may have gotten his head in the blinds or the blind cords, and so on and so on.

Bottom line, I agree. I'm sure the Child Freedom Police will probably take my head off for saying so, but as a parent, I believe it's way better to be safe than sorry. You only have one of that child. Is it really worth it to leave him unsupervised?

Just my opinion.

No blind cords, toddler size matress, wall anchors. No small toys. Old, uncarpeted house, very easy to hear everything everywhere. I do believe even children occasionally need and deserve alone time. We don't leave him unsupervised to convienience ourselves... I believe it is a need to all people to sometimes get some alone time.

ETA: and I think if one is left alone at all it doesn't matter the amount of time. There is no more ddanger in my toddler allowed alone time for an hour and someone elses left for five minutes while mom goes to the bathroom. Both children are at same risk or lack of risk of choking etc.


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## Marcimama (Jan 6, 2007)

LOL!







Sorry, it is just a bit silly. I think that Americans (as I am one) are just sooooo afraid of everything! Use judgment and wisdom, but for goodness sakes let your child be a child. I let my dd play alone on our porch and in our front yard (we live in the country on a camp in fact). They need to learn boundaries, self control and cause and effect. Play is the best way of doing that.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gingerstar* 
Maybe it is a guy thing - I am pretty much like pp in terms of letting little ones play independently, but my DH is always like, where are they? what are they doing? are you keeping an eye on the baby? (who is 20 mos old....)

My dh is more of the "If you can't hear crying, they must be ok" opinion.


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## cjuniverse (Sep 22, 2005)

My son (15 months) plays alone all the time. In the kitchen, in our room, in the hallway, on the patio. Has been doing so for months. He's pretty active and curious, too. A bit of a climber.

The worst that's happened is a bumped head or something knocked over or him making a mess. He's still alive and well. And you know what? He's learning what not to do in his own way, and it's working. I can see him growing more cautious of troublesome situations and scenarios, based on his experiences and my talking to him. It's going great, without any of the obsessive 'hovering' tactics that seem to be the norm in parenting culture here.

I too think Americans in particular are way, way, waaay too overprotective of their children. Suffocatingly so. Kids need alone time, too...to play, to sit and think, to figure stuff out. If we as parents insist on holding their hands, policing them constantly, and never letting them figure things out for themselves, it makes their job of learning things and growing up that much harder (not to mention, our job as caretakers that much more complicated). It's just unnecessary, in my opinion. Babies aren't stupid. They're just...babies. They need us, but not as much as we may think. They _need_ to learn from experience and make mistakes (and sometimes, this involves falling/bumping their head/breaking something, etc). That's what learning is.


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## Ambrose (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cjuniverse* 
My son (15 months) plays alone all the time. In the kitchen, in our room, in the hallway, on the patio. Has been doing so for months. He's pretty active and curious, too. A bit of a climber.

The worst that's happened is a bumped head or something knocked over or him making a mess. He's still alive and well. And you know what? He's learning what not to do in his own way, and it's working. I can see him growing more cautious of troublesome situations and scenarios, based on his experiences and my talking to him. It's going great, without any of the obsessive 'hovering' tactics that seem to be the norm in parenting culture here.

I too think Americans in particular are way, way, waaay too overprotective of their children. Suffocatingly so. Kids need alone time, too...to play, to sit and think, to figure stuff out. If we as parents insist on holding their hands, policing them constantly, and never letting them figure things out for themselves, it makes their job of learning things and growing up that much harder (not to mention, our job as caretakers that much more complicated). It's just unnecessary, in my opinion. Babies aren't stupid. They're just...babies. They need us, but not as much as we may think. They _need_ to learn from experience and make mistakes (and sometimes, this involves falling/bumping their head/breaking something, etc). That's what learning is.











Totally totally agree- I'm in the US and I'm pretty certain I still overprotect my DD- but I think a lot of people over police. I mean... I have yet to see more than TWO kids play outside by themselves having fun like I did as a kid in the summer. It's almost the end of July people!! You [general you] can't even let your over protectiveness loosen for 30 minutes so they can run in the sprinklers in your yard?! Geez- lighten up if you can't stand letting them do it alone... become a kid again and run through that sprinkler yourself too. DD was tickled while DH ran with her through the sprinklers yesterday.


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## ILoveMyBabyBird (Sep 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ambrose* 
Totally totally agree- I'm in the US and I'm pretty certain I still overprotect my DD- but I think a lot of people over police. I mean... I have yet to see more than TWO kids play outside by themselves having fun like I did as a kid in the summer. It's almost the end of July people!! You [general you] can't even let your over protectiveness loosen for 30 minutes so they can run in the sprinklers in your yard?! Geez- lighten up if you can't stand letting them do it alone... become a kid again and run through that sprinkler yourself too. DD was tickled while DH ran with her through the sprinklers yesterday.

it may not just be the parents, the kids these days, (at least the ones I know) are normally playing video games. And at my ds's b-day party I suggested some of the older boys go outside to play and their response was, "it's too hot" OMG--we lived without a/c most of my life, it was 90 degrees that day, IMO, not too hot for some rowdy pre-teen boys to go outside for 20 minutes!

I would let ds play outside when older, but honestly, i am a little overprotective and it would have to be in a fenced backyard, and I would probably check on him often or keep the window curtains open, kwim? When i was younger I did play outside alone, but I guess I have become too aware of the realities of life as an adult and I prefer not to take chances with ds's well being.

I wish my ds would play alone, honestly. He used to when he was eight or nine months, but now he won't. He barely plays with his toys and he has tons. He will occassionly look at books alone or play w/puzzles or his music toys, but everything esle he will only play with if I play with him. He likes music, but won't listen to it in his room anymore unless I am in there too, and if I try to do something else, like read or write bills, he tries to rip the books/checkbook out of my hands. I dream of the day when he will play in his room by himself!


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ambrose* 
You [general you] can't even let your over protectiveness loosen for 30 minutes so they can run in the sprinklers in your yard?! Geez- lighten up if you can't stand letting them do it alone... become a kid again and run through that sprinkler yourself too. DD was tickled while DH ran with her through the sprinklers yesterday.

This is what's known in logical argument as a "false dichotomy": a logical fallacy in which two ideas are set up as if in opposition to one another even though no natural opposition exists. The reader/auditor is then falsely "forced" to choose between either one option or the other.

In other words, you are setting up your argument as if to say there are only two options: either a) one engages in "overprotectiveness" or b) "let them do it [i.e., run through sprinklers] alone."

The obvious problem with this argument is this: one can still supervise one's child AND allow them to run through sprinklers. The enjoyment a child feels in running through sprinklers is _not substantially reduced_ when the action is observed by a parent.

The same kind of illogic is being used in this statement here:

Quote:

Kids need alone time, too...to play, to sit and think, to figure stuff out. If we as parents insist on holding their hands, policing them constantly, and never letting them figure things out for themselves,
Again, as before, the false dichotomy is being offered as logical argument. In this case, "alone time" to "play, to sit, to think, to figure stuff out" is being falsely and illogically opposed to supervised play.

Obviously, the two are by no means mutually exclusive. One _can_ supervise play and yet not "[hold] their hands, [police] them constantly," nor refuse to "[let] them figure things out for themselves." *There is a distict difference* between supervising children and hovering over them that these posters and others are attempting to erase or to minimize.

Moreover, in the name of allowing children freedom to grow and figure things out on their own -- an idea few if any of us would oppose -- they're arguing that leaving children without *appropriate* supervision is actually healthy and good for their well-being. I find this line of reasoning to be illogical and contradictory to common sense. Appropriate supervision is just that: supervision that occupies the --thankfully very generous -- space between policing and neglect.

Bottom line:
* There IS a difference between supervision and "policing."
* One CAN allow children to play and discover without "hovering."
* Leaving children alone (where they cannot be heard or seen, or where they ARE not heard or seen for at least an hour and a half, as in the case brought up by the OP) puts the child at *unnecessary* risk for their own safety with very little corresponding benefit to be gleaned in independence or problem-solving.

Ultimately, the false dichotomy fallacy still remains unconvincing.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 

Bottom line:
* There IS a difference between supervision and "policing."
* One CAN allow children to play and discover without "hovering."
.

I have to agree with this. I don't leave dd (14 months) alone in her playroom, which is on a different floor from the rest of the house. However, she plays quite independently, even though I'm there (often reading a book or doing something else). She is quite happy to entertain herself, discover new things, etc.--but she's also quite happy I'm there if she wants to hear a book or something like that. Sometimes we play together, sometimes we don't--I'm not policing her. I mean, dh and I can be reading or working in the same room, and he's not hampering my capacity for independent thought, yk?

When she's playing in her room (upstairs), I do step out to go to the bathroom or change my clothes or something like that (she's still in earshot). At the playground, she plays in the sandbox on her own while I sit off to the side, but I generally supervise more closely if she's doing climbing stuff, b/c she's not that steady yet.

All that said, I think a 2.5 yo is much different from a 1 yo, and I don't know how I'll feel in another year or so. I certainly think your coworker is overreacting.


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## WannabeaFarmer (Jul 7, 2006)

DD is 20mo and is very independent. She will come to me and tell me in her own way when she wants my "help". She is in that, do it myself stage. Where she doesnt want anyone to help her unless she tries it first and then realizes that she NEEDS the help. Its cute. Yea, she has a playroom and goes back and forth between there and our living room. Most of her frequently played with toys are in our living room, and we rotate toys between the two rooms, but she really is independent enough to play alone and explore. We havent had the need to really lock up stuff or child proof, except for the chemical cabinet and the bathroom drawers and cabinets. Other then that, there really isnt anything that she can hurt herself or get into that she isnt supposed to. She is a very trustworthy and honest lil kiddo. If she finds something that isnt in its place or is new to her, she will bring it to me or DP and show us. Usually asking "Whats This?" So we can leave her unattended for a period of time. She will come runnin if she needs somethin.


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## cherubess (Oct 14, 2004)

My DS has just started playing independently for short bursts of time.

When he is in a different room to me I always check on him regularly, not interferring or interacting but just checking. I might just throw an "I love you" at him every now and again.

My place is childproofed.

I think it all boils down to the child, the age of the child and what the parents are comfortable with.

As we can see we all have varying degrees of what we think is right for our own children.

The OP's co-worker has a differing opinion to the OP and that is fine but the OP said that the co-worker bit into her which I think is rude. I don't think that the co-worker would like it just the same if the OP bit into him "What? You don't let your child play on his/her own? You are suffocating him/her!".

The co-worker thinks he is doing the right thing and the OP is wrong, just as the OP thinks she is doing the right thing and the co-worker may be wrong.

I think there is a right way and a wrong way to put your parenting ideals across. Biting at or shoving it down someone's throat isn't one that I would take at all be it right or wrong.


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## aguafria6 (Oct 5, 2006)

Yeah!! I'm so glad that I read this thread!! My dd, who's 2.5 plays alone in her room for 1-2 during the afternoons too. Most of the time she'll fall asleep after that. I think she really needs that downtime too. And of course her room is totally babyproofed.


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## Ambrose (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ILoveMyBabyBird* 
it may not just be the parents, the kids these days, (at least the ones I know) are normally playing video games. And at my ds's b-day party I suggested some of the older boys go outside to play and their response was, "it's too hot" OMG--we lived without a/c most of my life, it was 90 degrees that day, IMO, not too hot for some rowdy pre-teen boys to go outside for 20 minutes!

I would let ds play outside when older, but honestly, i am a little overprotective and it would have to be in a fenced backyard, and I would probably check on him often or keep the window curtains open, kwim? When i was younger I did play outside alone, but I guess I have become too aware of the realities of life as an adult and I prefer not to take chances with ds's well being.

I wish my ds would play alone, honestly. He used to when he was eight or nine months, but now he won't. He barely plays with his toys and he has tons. He will occassionly look at books alone or play w/puzzles or his music toys, but everything esle he will only play with if I play with him. He likes music, but won't listen to it in his room anymore unless I am in there too, and if I try to do something else, like read or write bills, he tries to rip the books/checkbook out of my hands. I dream of the day when he will play in his room by himself!

Oh I know kids are very much playing video games most of the time now a days- and I've got nothing against em, I'm a gamer fan. Sometimes though when I see how EMPTY the street is-- with 2 parks within walking distance on either side of us-- it makes me really sad.

As for your kids-







I was like that as a preteen...







: but I ended up filling a water bottle with mostly ice and head on out anyways. I'd have probably told them to go have a water balloon fight if it was too hot for em.







:And I understand keeping a window open to hear them and just check in on them and I would probably do it too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 
This is what's known in logical argument as a "false dichotomy": a logical fallacy in which two ideas are set up as if in opposition to one another even though no natural opposition exists. The reader/auditor is then falsely "forced" to choose between either one option or the other.

In other words, you are setting up your argument as if to say there are only two options: either a) one engages in "overprotectiveness" or b) "let them do it [i.e., run through sprinklers] alone."

The obvious problem with this argument is this: one can still supervise one's child AND allow them to run through sprinklers. The enjoyment a child feels in running through sprinklers is _not substantially reduced_ when the action is observed by a parent.

I'm not saying one cannot let their kids outside without partaking. I'm saying that parents who are *over* protective and/or policing-like should lighten up. If they cannot lighten up they could _consider_ the idea of going out and playing with the kids. Kids do learn from examples. Parents are the models to the children.

And if playing in the sprinklers is just not an appealing idea to the parent then the parent should find something else to do outside so they can appease the want to keep an obvious eye on their children while also making it appear that the children are actually getting some independence.

Again, as before, the false dichotomy is being offered as logical argument. In this case, "alone time" to "play, to sit, to think, to figure stuff out" is being falsely and illogically opposed to supervised play.

Obviously, the two are by no means mutually exclusive. One _can_ supervise play and yet not "[hold] their hands, [police] them constantly," nor refuse to "[let] them figure things out for themselves." *There is a distict difference* between supervising children and hovering over them that these posters and others are attempting to erase or to minimize.

Moreover, in the name of allowing children freedom to grow and figure things out on their own -- an idea few if any of us would oppose -- they're arguing that leaving children without *appropriate* supervision is actually healthy and good for their well-being. I find this line of reasoning to be illogical and contradictory to common sense. Appropriate supervision is just that: supervision that occupies the --thankfully very generous -- space between policing and neglect.

I am not trying to erase or minimize anything. What your idea of appropriate is different than other parents idea of appropriate. Some of us feel it is appropriate to give our children 'alone time' and space to themselves. Some people disagree. This thread [i think] was intended to be a discussion with parents who feel comfortable letting our children play by themselves in another room for a length of time. And not turn into some heated debate.

It is not to say that we don't supervise. For the love of the gods- my daughter plays upstairs while I'm downstairs. She plays in the next room over when I'm in the kitchen. In both places I can hear her just fine- I'm not ignoring my child or not supervising. I'm just not supervising to the level that OTHERS feel comfy with.

Bottom line:
* There IS a difference between supervision and "policing."
* One CAN allow children to play and discover without "hovering."
* Leaving children alone (where they cannot be heard or seen, or where they ARE not heard or seen for at least an hour and a half, as in the case brought up by the OP) puts the child at *unnecessary* risk for their own safety with very little corresponding benefit to be gleaned in independence or problem-solving.

Ultimately, the false dichotomy fallacy still remains unconvincing.




Yes there is a difference in supervision and policing. I was referring to OVER protective supervision and policing- there is a difference between those as well.

Your right- I do let my child play and discover. And I don't hover.

If you feel that allowing a child to play alone for any extended time is unnecessary-- that is your feeling. *HOWEVER* you are wrong in that the OP said anything about not being able to hear her child. Here is the OP again:

Quote:

Ok, not really hours, it has never lasted that long. But a coworker bit into me last year when I said something about DS being up in his playroom by himself. He freaked out, couldn't believe I let DS play unsupervised for as long as he wanted to be alone. (This does not happen all that often and never longer than an hour and a half) He apparently thinks that DS could choke and die ... ummm... break his neck somehow... not sure. The guy has three kids and apparently doesn't leave them alone unless their monitor is turned on.

DS was about two and a half when the conversation happened and he's three now. _I haven't forgotten it and just started to wonder if he is just way paranoid and untrusting or am I abnormal? I trust DS to behave and come to me if he needs anything and so far it has worked fine. What age do most people start trusting their kids?_ The only thing he has ever done was crayon up a wall, and never did it again.

I don't want to see this thread turn into a heated debate ok everyone? Please?


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fiorio* 
I think it may have something to do with not fully understanding what the child is capable of and their maturity level. My DH is the same way. One time when DS was about 27 months we were getting ready to go somewhere (at the time we had a 2-floor apartment). DH was just getting out of the shower upstairs and I was up there ironing. He gets all panicked and asks "Who is watching DS???" I said "Umm...DS is watching DS."







He was completely shocked that I would leave DS alone in a room...uh, how does he think I manage to do anything around the house? DH also thinks that you can't take a shower or make a phone call with DS around...strange man.


My husband doesn't eat! If he's alone with DD, 2, he will wait til she goes to sleep to cook himself dinner. Then when I get home he'll say..."_I just ate now_..." to let me know how he suffered! It cracks me up. She loves the kitchen.

I don't really leave DD alone too much--she'll play in her room a bit, and my living room is off the computer room so sometimes she plays and I go round the corner to the computer. But she is mischievious and our house is not completely babyproofed so I still have to check on her regularly. I'd like to give her a little more independence but I think maybe I am too much of a nervous nelly!


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## simplelah (Jun 27, 2007)

My kids often play on their own while I am cooking or cleaning. The house we are in has a really open floorplan so I can always hear what they are up to. They love to play together and when I sit down to play with them, it usually ends in a fight over who gets mommy.

I agree that so long as the room is childproof and you are within earshot, there is no problem.

I don't know how any mom is supposed to accomplish anything if she is staring at her kids 24/7.


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## stormborn (Dec 8, 2001)

I would think that maybe the coworker is not the primary caregiver during the day. Dh usually only had dd by himself at night and during the day if he's home he is very much like that.







The other day he came racing into the house to tell me the "KIDS! WERE! IN! THE BACKYARD!" as though it was some kind of emergency. I run out the, nothing happening but the ususal group of kids playing nicely. Go to dh to ask what the problem was. "they were out there alooooone!"

um, dh, they are 9, 8 and 6. They play outside in each other's yards every day without me right there. I'm available and usually within hearing distance, but come on. He seriously thought, apparently, that all I do all day is follow dd and her friends around and stare at them.







:


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ambrose* 
.

If you feel that allowing a child to play alone for any extended time is unnecessary-- that is your feeling. *HOWEVER* you are wrong in that the OP said anything about not being able to hear her child. Here is the OP again:

If you feel that allowing a child to play alone for any extended time is unnecessary-- that is your feeling. HOWEVER you are wrong in that the OP said anything about not being able to hear her child. Here is the OP again:

Quote:
_Ok, not really hours, it has never lasted that long. But a coworker bit into me last year when I said something about DS being up in his playroom by himself. He freaked out, couldn't believe I let DS play unsupervised for as long as he wanted to be alone. (This does not happen all that often and never longer than an hour and a half) He apparently thinks that DS could choke and die ... ummm... break his neck somehow... not sure. The guy has three kids and apparently doesn't leave them alone unless their monitor is turned on.

DS was about two and a half when the conversation happened and he's three now. I haven't forgotten it and just started to wonder if he is just way paranoid and untrusting or am I abnormal? I trust DS to behave and come to me if he needs anything and so far it has worked fine. What age do most people start trusting their kids? The only thing he has ever done was crayon up a wall, and never did it again._

I don't want to see this thread turn into a heated debate ok everyone? Please?

Ambrose, I'm sure it's just my advanced old age that makes the part where the OP said she could hear her child apparently invisible to my eye. She did mention her child being "up in his playroom," which means (by inference) that she is "down somewhere else," and for the most part -- and maybe your hearing is better than mine -- I find it very difficult if I'm downstairs to hear most noises coming from upstairs. Don't you?


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## neveryoumindthere (Mar 21, 2003)

OK I read some of the responses, not all I'll admit, but HOW in the world do your children play alone?!?! My dds are 4 and 20 months and oh my goodness they are all about being in my space. every. single. second. of. the. day.
Not being able to breath is really not good for stress. Really.
The toys are in the living room, main part of the house, but they *never* play with them..i've organized, i've taken several out of sight in case it was too overwhelming, I dont know how else to encourage them to just PLAY. They jsut want me to read books to them and they argue and argue some more..
what are in the toy rooms you all have? Should I just put everything in my older dd's room and see if they notice the toys are all gone from the living room and hope they wander into the bedroom?
HELP


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## WannabeaFarmer (Jul 7, 2006)

Quote:

Should I just put everything in my older dd's room and see if they notice the toys are all gone from the living room and hope they wander into the bedroom?
HELP

exactly, that is what I did. Well not really EVERYTHING, just the stuff I noticed that she really didnt play with. I keep some baby stuff in the bottom drawer of the toy drawers(for the 10mo I watch), and then DD's stuff gets in the other 2 drawers-yk? those three high plastic rubbermaid/sterilite drawers on wheels? Those are like $12 at my walmart and have helped me clean up greatly! I got fed up with all the toys covering my living room floor, table, couch...etc...then the began to migrate into my kitchen...







:
In an apartment it gets kinda crazy.
I actually went through all the toys and boxed up the ones that really were too young for her, and that I didnt need upstairs for the lil one I watch. I only keep a handful of needed "baby toys" around cause the other LO is getting too old for them too-so coming soon I might be boxing up more..








Then after Christmas, I moved the "old" toys into the room and kept the "new" ones out in my living room for play. Then when DD wants to play with her other toys she will go into the other room and play with those. We have a deal, she knows that if she wants a toy out in the living room, she has to "trade" it for something in the play room. This way we have no additional toys in my living room to pile up...LOL....


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## Ambrose (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 
Ambrose, I'm sure it's just my advanced old age that makes the part where the OP said she could hear her child apparently invisible to my eye. She did mention her child being "up in his playroom," which means (by inference) that she is "down somewhere else," and for the most part -- and maybe your hearing is better than mine -- I find it very difficult if I'm downstairs to hear most noises coming from upstairs. Don't you?

Meh- I might have sensitive hearing... or younger hearing







, but since we've had DD we've always ended up in a place with super.thin.walls.







We thought the house would be different but alas- it isn't. I can hear DD's foot steps across her floor when I'm downstairs on the opposite end of the house. Honestly. It kinda sucks







because that means that she can most likely hear everything too. Like... _everything_














:

I hope I just have sensitive hearing...









Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere*
OK I read some of the responses, not all I'll admit, but HOW in the world do your children play alone?!?! My dds are 4 and 20 months and oh my goodness they are all about being in my space. every. single. second. of. the. day.
Not being able to breath is really not good for stress. Really.
The toys are in the living room, main part of the house, but they *never* play with them..i've organized, i've taken several out of sight in case it was too overwhelming, I dont know how else to encourage them to just PLAY. They jsut want me to read books to them and they argue and argue some more..
what are in the toy rooms you all have? Should I just put everything in my older dd's room and see if they notice the toys are all gone from the living room and hope they wander into the bedroom?
HELP


Moved the toys in her room. Never had more than her art table out in the living room. She could bring toys out around the house with her but we've always brought them back into her room when she lost interest until she was old enough to bring them back herself. DH actually had found out that she needed alone time. She was just a spitfire for a long time during the day and DH for his own sanity told her he was bringing her into her room so he could take a breather. I was in the kitchen and about 1 minute after he put her in there (he did close the door) she got distracted with some of her toys. She ended up over time wanting to spend more time alone.

Gah- I'd write more but DD and I gotta go pick up DH from work.


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## CallMeKelly (May 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CallMeKelly* 
No blind cords, toddler size matress, wall anchors. No small toys. Old, uncarpeted house, *very easy to hear everything* everywhere. I do believe even children occasionally need and deserve alone time. We don't leave him unsupervised to convienience ourselves... I believe it is a need to all people to sometimes get some alone time.

ETA: and I think if one is left alone at all it doesn't matter the amount of time. There is no more ddanger in my toddler allowed alone time for an hour and someone elses left for five minutes while mom goes to the bathroom. Both children are at same risk or lack of risk of choking etc.

Just to set the record straight for the interested parties... BTW quoting myself felt rather strange. Bolding mine ... Hehh Hehh. Sorry about the typo's


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ambrose* 
Meh- I might have sensitive hearing... or younger hearing







, but since we've had DD we've always ended up in a place with super.thin.walls.







We thought the house would be different but alas- it isn't. I can hear DD's foot steps across her floor when I'm downstairs on the opposite end of the house. Honestly. It kinda sucks







because that means that she can most likely hear everything too. Like... _everything_














:

I hope I just have sensitive hearing...










I have no idea what you're talking about. *Cough.* Not at all. Nope.


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## cjuniverse (Sep 22, 2005)

Meg, I think you read a bit more into what Ambrose and I were saying than what we intended, which she has basically already said (and far more eloquently).

I was referencing _over_protectiveness, not regular protectiveness, which I think all good parents have a healthy amount of.

No argument, just clarification. Some parents feel secure only when their little ones are in view, and I understand that. I have those days with my kid, too.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

naturegirl and gooey have the same kind of kids I do.







The amount of havoc and destruction and self-damage this kid inflicts right under my nose, I hardly dare leave her alone. She's just getting to the point where I can be in the kitchen and peek in on her in the living room every few minutes and she won't wreck too much stuff if she stays engaged in whatever she was doing. But she is also short of attention span, and heavily into investigating all manner of physics and science and how things work and whatnot. She can open anything, and she loves playing with computers and electronics and hand tools.







I like to think if I left her alone she'd just upgrade my RAM or something but I don't think we're quite there yet.


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## Ambrose (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
She can open anything, and she loves playing with computers and electronics and hand tools.








I like to think if I left her alone she'd just upgrade my RAM or something but I don't think we're quite there yet.









Can you have her upgrade my RAM too?


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## lilsishomemade (Feb 12, 2005)

It's nice to read threads like this, really. I've got three very young children, all boys, ages 4, 3, and 1. I absolutely can NOT seem to be able to keep them all in one place at a time. My oldest learned how to climb babygates soon after he was walking, was able to actually tear them up (I'm not kidding!) by age 2. For the pp who mentioned her child tearing baseboards off, yep. He's also torn the window ledges off. So, he stays with me. My middle son likes to play house and can peacefully play most places. My baby is really just starting to walk, so he's a bit easier to contain. However, trying to keep them all together is like trying to get a group of cats to do tricks on command. I would be even crazier at the end of the day if I didn't give them alone time (except for oldest, he helps me with everything).

I guess I can be a bit overprotective when we go places. At least, my mom thinks so. I just get really nervous because I've got so many little ones to look after, and we live in a pretty busy city. I remember getting lost when I was about five, and that awful feeling, so I keep them close. They don't go outside without me. Our front is not gated and our backyard has a hole (we live in a 2 story, the basement has an enclosed concrete patio. Hard to explain, they actually dug a hole to create this thing, it's wierd). If that wasn't there, I'd let the two older go out and keep a window open so I could hear them, which is what we do at my mom's.

In the house, however, they have free reign and I guess I'm so in tune with them, I can usually tell what they are doing even if I can't see them. It's my mama-dar


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