# Natural consequence for throwing/dumping toys



## tooticky (Mar 30, 2006)

I am trying to incorporate more GD practices into my parenting style, but get stuck on a few things.

DS has a habit of walking up to his toy boxes and dumping the contents all over the floor. He is not doing that to play with them because after he dumps them he walks away.

He also throws toys a lot, sometimes in frustration and sometimes it seems just for fun.

To me it seems the natural consequence of dumping out toys is that there is a big mess, but it doesn't bother him - it bothers *me*! Is this something I just have to deal with because it is my issue, not his?

The natural consequence of throwing toys seems to be that something or someone *might* get hurt, but he has never observed this happen and I would hate to let it happen just so that he can see the consequence. How do you teach a child not to throw?

In my baby-brained state (1 mo old dd) it's hard for me to work through these things! Any help and advice is much appreciated...

TIA


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## guest9921 (Nov 3, 2005)

Throwing toys are no longer accessible to DS. He throws them, I quietly put them up. Sometimes he protests, and we talk about not throwing toys.

Dumping toys?
Hah.
My DS LOVES to dump toys. We have his babybathtub (his boat, we call it) full of toys, and a toybox full of his dolls, animals, and whatnot. He has two big bags of blocks - and they're perpetually on the floor.
I pick them up twice a day, and twice a day he picks the bag up and dumps them out. Sometimes he'll stop to play, sometimes not.
I'm fine with it.
Then again, they're in an area thats not a walking path - and when they are picked up, I ask him to help me.

[I'm also fine with clutter, so Im quite strange.]


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## tooticky (Mar 30, 2006)

Wow - you are indeed lucky that you don't mind clutter!







I'm totally crazy about avoiding it... Definitely an adjustment when kids enter the picture.

I am wondering how removing the toy is a natural consequence. It's my first instinct, but it seemed like an artificial consequence to me. Not that I have any other ideas!









Thanks for the reply...


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

At three, I just pick up the toys at naptime, after they're in bed and before they get up in the morning. (I have a 2.5 year old and a 6 year old.) My 6 year old sometime gives me a hand and we have a sweet conversation while we do it.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

The natural consequence of dumping toys, is that mom is unhappy about the mess. If you have to clean it up, then you have less time to play with ds. Or if he wants to find a toy, you may not be able to find it until the mess is cleaned up. Those types of things are natural consequences.

For me, I don't mind a mess of toys on the floor (though I will pick it up in a day or two. lol). But if ds is looking for something, if I can't find it in, say, 2 minutes, I tell him that we have to clean stuff up to look for it. It seems totally unecessary to me to _move_ toys to look for something, when it would be just as easy to clean them up, and it's easier to find the missing toy.

I agree that removing a toy is not a natural consequence, though it is a logical consequence.

For us, when a toy is being used in a way that may harm someone or something, I redirect ds to another use of the toy, or another way to express his original impulse. So, if he wanted to throw a hard block, I'd maybe tell him to either build with his blocks, or to find a soft ball to throw.
If it's really really an impulse control thing, and I can tell he *wants* to stop but just can't control himself, sometimes it helps for me to say "Let's put this up so you won't be tempted to throw it." Every time that's happened, he's agreed and been happy to have it put away.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

The suggestion from "The Secret of Parenting" has worked for us, believe it or not:

Ask your child to pick up the toys with you (explain why). If the child doesn't, clean them up yourself, but say, "I asked you to pick up the toys and you didn't, so I had to do it myself. Next time, I expect you to help."

Again...believe it or not...it works.


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

I would do the Secret of Parenting thing 1x but if it didn't work then I wouldn't always pick his stuff up for him everytime. I'd explain the reason you don't want toys on the floor where he has dumped them and then find a solution together. I would say something like, "You like to dump out your toys and I don't want them left here dumped on the floor, how can we work this out?"

You could move the toys to another location where he can dump them.
You could reduce the toys so it's not so much stuff being dumped.

I do see removing toys as a logical consequence if it comes to that. People have tripped over toys and it can be dangerous. But I would jump right to that type of solution either.

As for cleaning up...make sure you make it fun. Sing silly clean up songs, make a game of it. Help each other. Read books about cleaning up and that sort of thing to help him understand that it helps keep toys safe, people safe, and makes things easy to find, etc.


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## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

Not sure how old your DS is but here are some things that we have done with some success:

-make DD's room HER room - if she wants to dump toys all over, that's fine, it's her room - but that is not allowed in common areas. She is redirected to her room if she wants to dump things

-I am very specific in my requests for things for her to "clean" - "put that truck on the shelf" is more effective for her than "help me clean up" - I don't expect her to put everything away yet but am satisfied with 2-5 minutes of concentrated effort on her part (she might get 4 things put away in that time) - I also have her help with putting away dishes, bringing dishes from the table to the sink, etc She really seems to like "real life" practice

For throwing, we have practiced hard and soft...we can throw SOFT things but not HARD things...if you make a game of it then it can be fun! I also say "don't throw things at people" over and over to make sure she is understanding me....

we don't really do punishments/logical consequences per se so I can't really help from that perspective...mostly I just act as if this is what is expected and DD will go along with it - I'm sure she's just easy! LOL She is 3.5 and I'm okay with her progress so far.

hth
peace
robyn


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I agree with hippymomma and deva and mary beth's suggestion of involving him in the solution.

With two kids, my dear, you are definitely going to have to raise your threshold for dealing with clutter!


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## tooticky (Mar 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68* 
With two kids, my dear, you are definitely going to have to raise your threshold for dealing with clutter!









Haha! You are right...

Thanks for all of the suggestions.

DS thus far refuses to be part of the solution. He lays down on the floor and says: "No, I won't help".

This is especially true of the times when he has thrown food or cutlery/dishes on the floor.

Should I just give in and pick it up myself, or leave it there until we can agree to pick it up together? Loraxc - you have suggested doing it yourself and telling dc that you have done it and you expect help next time. If they don't help the next time, you repeat the process and assume that at some point they will?

Patience! I need more patience!!

Thanks again for your help.


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

What has worked for my daughter (who is younger, so your milage may vary) and toy-dumping is a re-vamp of her toys and toy strorage. I cut way back on the number of toys she has available (put away lots for rotating later) and then sorted through the remaining toys and stored them in small containers or even better on shelves when possible so everything is visable.

When we had larger bins or toy boxes she would do as you describe..walk in and dump but not really play. I've found that with fewer toys broken into smaller collections, she is a bit more focused and much less ends up scattered on the floor.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

That's a really good point, easy_goer.
I don't have any big boxes of toys here. All the toys are sorted and stored pretty much separately- the legos in one box, the thomas trains in one box, etc. I do have one box that has misc. toys in it, but they are largish toys, so there are maybe 7 things in that box. So dumping that isn't a big deal.


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## tooticky (Mar 30, 2006)

I actually have the toys separated into small tubs as well. But on top of the toy shelf I (had) some small tubs of things, as well as toys that come in boxes (like his doctor kit). He takes these small tubs and throws them to the ground, then wanders off. By throwing enough of these small tubs on the floor he creates quite a scene.

It's not like he's searching for a toy to play with. It seems to me (and I don't think I'm searching for a negative motive here) that he simply enjoys throwing things on the floor to make a big noise and a big mess.

Part of it is also probably that he wants to check my reaction.

While he does have a play area in the house, it is also a room that you have to walk through to get to the bathroom and the laundry room.

Maybe I just need to expect that this is something he enjoys doing, and it's not really a big deal unless it is preventing him from playing with other toys or preventing us from getting to the other rooms. As Piglet says - there will be clutter!

Maybe I need to focus on having him help me tidy up at the end of the day.


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## tooticky (Mar 30, 2006)

Oh - forgot to add that he used to LOVE tidying up - he would refuse to come to the table for dinner because he was busy "tidying". In a matter of weeks (yes - after the arrival of dd) there has been an about face and he now flatly refuses to help.

Making a game of it - no go. He's onto that strategy.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

I avoided toys with many parts until ds got out of that dumping stage. We did have small things but ones that were easy to put away, like a bin of blocks and a bin of cars. Rotating toys is a good way to cut back on quantity. I liked to have few enough toys that it wasn't a major problem if everything was out because that is what happens if anyone comes over. The rest got put in a big bin and sent to the attic. I tried to minimize all the miscelaneous stuff that is hard to organize. This was helpful because it made him less likely to dump containers to see what was in them in addition to the dumping because he wanted to express unhappiness (or whatever). Things that I wanted to keep closer tabs on, like crayons and markers, I kept out of reach but would take out when he asked. He was almost 4 1/2 when we introduced small legos and I was so pleased that he had indeed outgrown the dumping stage.


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## bellinismama (Feb 4, 2007)

It seems to me that you could be on to something about the new baby.

In general, we have things divided into baskets or boxes, though to be honest I worry we have too much out, but so far dd does ok (she is 2.5). We do not do any large "toyboxes," because I do think it is hard not to dump things out.

I also feel that things need to work for all of us in a family, so if dd's toys out were hard on me, I think it is fair to address that. Though some clutter also has to be ok.

One thought I had was having a time when it things get cleaned up, so everyone gets a fresh start. I think kids play better when things aren't too chaotic.

My other thought is, maybe he (with new baby) is wanting to make sure you will still take care of him too. I believe children feel loved and safe with people who give them guidance about inappropriate behavior. Negative attention is still attention, ykwim? I hope this makes sense, and I am not saying you aren't giving him enough attention, I just mean it is an adjustment for him and your whole family.

I am definitely thinking about this with a new baby for us in August!

Good luck, Aimee


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

You could lay down next to him and say, "I won't clean it up either! I won't, I won't!"









Even if you've already tried some of these suggestions, keep with it.
He'll come around.


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## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

Was wondering about the food/cutlery throwing...is this his way of saying he's done eating? Maybe focus on ways to help him tell you he is finished and would like to be excused - then make it part of your routine to take his dishes to the sink (if he likes water play you could sweeten the deal by letting him "wash" them himself!)

I also just saw how old he was in your sig and I'm PRETTY sure this is an age thing...My DD is 10/03 and she was much worse about 6 months ago...so hopefully he won't be QUITE to oppositional in about 6 months or so!

Good luck - I know it is SO HARD with 2! I have a 6 month old also and learning to balance everyone's needs is so hard!
peace,
robyn


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

It does seem like the new babe is perhaps at the bottom of this behavior change. A couple of thoughts came to mind when I read your OP:

*Ignore the mess if at all possible for awhile. As you said, if he's looking for a reaction with this behavior and continues to get it (even negative) it might just carry on.

*Maybe put on some groovy music at the end of the day and clean up together while dancing and being silly. Sometimes doing something totally unexpected can change the dynamic and he might let go of the desire to push against you about cleaning up.

*This might be nuts, but if he's into dumping can you create a "bean bin" or something where he can use tools to scoop and dump? This might just make one more thing for him to dump on the floor, but if it is a desire to dump and work with volume then maybe this would provide him with that purpose. We've had one for about a year or two for ds and we're just now getting to where he doesn't seem to enjoy it as much anymore (he's 4).

As far as throwing, when my ds was younger (about 2), he threw everything...he loves balls and sports and this was just a natural thing for him to want to do. So we provided boundaries for him in a loving and gentle way. If he threw something hard that could hurt someone or break something we'd put it up and calmly tell him why. We'd always offer him something that he could throw - a soft ball or stuffed animal...whatever wouldn't hurt someone. He learned very quickly what he could throw and what he couldn't.

I see the throwing as a safety issue and I wouldn't worry too much about whether the consequence is natural or logical. If you were to wait for a natural consequence, it might be more traumatic for him - if the baby got hit in the head or something valuable broke. I think it's fair to everyone involved to create a logical consequence in this situation and follow through with it in a loving and gentle way.

Hang in there...what a big adjustment you're all going through! And you're running on little sleep and a sea of hormones, so give yourself a break and some time to ease into this new role of mothering two.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

I can't help you much with dumping toys .. my DS did that for a long time and it's just now that he's 4 that he's actually good at helping to clean up. I would make a game and get him to "use his claw" to pick up toys and try to help me .. but honestly, some time and age is the only thing that helped with the dumping/cleaning up problem. Well, that and some storage containers that he could not get into alone!









As far as throwing, well, I've never tolerated that. I ask him to stop, show him a new, safer way to play with the toy and warn him that if he throws again, the toy will have to go away until he can play with it without throwing. It may not be the most GD way ever, but I just can't stand throwing toys around that house.


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## tooticky (Mar 30, 2006)

Thank you all for the great suggestions and for reassuring me that this is normal behaviour...

I definitely think it's a combo of age and the new sister, as well as me being so much less patient and not having time to sit and play.

The last few weeks before dd was born I really spent a lot of time playing with him, just because I knew I would miss doing it, and maybe that made the adjustment even harder.

Anyways, I'll put some of these ideas into practise and try to ramp up on the patience!


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## trinaker (Dec 19, 2005)

Like others posted, any toy that is thrown in our house goes to have a "rest" and he can't play with it anymore.

The dumping is trickier. We had a big issue with our 2-year-old dumping all the books in his room off the shelves. What I tried once (which worked!) was to tell him at bedtime that we wouldn't have much time for reading because we had to clean up the big mess of books first. So we cleaned up the books but then could only read one book. On days when all the books were on the shelves, we had time to read more books since we didn't have to clean them all up. He pretty much completely stopped dumping his books within a couple days of starting this.

What I would do is let him dump the toys, but then when he wants you to play with him, say that you will but only after the toys are all cleaned up. Then you two can do it together. Eventually I think he'd get the idea that dumping toys cuts into the playtime he gets with you.


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## Mom2Joseph (May 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mary-Beth* 
I would do the Secret of Parenting thing 1x but if it didn't work then I wouldn't always pick his stuff up for him everytime. I'd explain the reason you don't want toys on the floor where he has dumped them and then find a solution together. I would say something like, "You like to dump out your toys and I don't want them left here dumped on the floor, how can we work this out?"

.









:

Believe it or not, my dumper DS decided that cleaning up, just him and I *together* before bed satisfied both of us. I get the clean floor at night (necessary as DH cut his foot on a toy tractor the other night and almost dropped our DD) and DS gets to make his mess and feel in control of his toys during the day. Also DS gets special time with Mommy and we sing the clean up song, talk about the day, talk about his toys and how he plays with them as we clean up. A very nice way to end the day. We BOTH feel better seeing a clean play area and I am much more calm in putting him to bed.

I have been reading How to talk so kids will Listen... and I couldn't believe that my DS and I actually got a solution worked out together without a power struggle. This is the one area I truly have problems with. If things get too cluttered/out of control toy wise I feel cluttered myself and then I start to act very un GD. So, this was a happy compromise.

Toys that are thrown are put away for another day. Not in a mean way, just matter of fact.


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## tooticky (Mar 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2Joseph* 
Toys that are thrown are put away for another day. Not in a mean way, just matter of fact.

Do you make any mention of the fact that you are bringing the toys back out? Do you remind the child that there was a reason they had been put away?

I would think that my son would forget by the next day (or even later that day) why the toy had been put away...


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

tooticky, around here the idea would be to ensure that it does NOT come across as punishment. In other words, if the child forgot why it was put away in the first place that is fine, as it isn't meant to be some kind of behavioural modification tool.

So if a toy was beign thrown around and there seemed no way to consensually resolve the issue...if I had to put it away I would try to explain simply "I need to put this away for now because I'm concerned someone is going to get hurt" and move them on to another activity. As soon as they want it back (well okay, not within the next few minutes while the idea of throwing it is still in their minds, lol) they can have it back. I'll just say "sure honey, here it is". And if they forget I'll just put it back with the toys myself.


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## Mom2Joseph (May 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tooticky* 
Do you make any mention of the fact that you are bringing the toys back out? Do you remind the child that there was a reason they had been put away?

I would think that my son would forget by the next day (or even later that day) why the toy had been put away...

no, i just bring it back out...


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