# Rear facing seats in van--car seat OK?



## mamato2boys (Nov 22, 2002)

So we have a VW Syncro Van that we haven't driven in a few years but it will be road worthy soon. There is a bench seat in the back along with two single seats that face backwards. Is it safe to have carseats/kids in a rear facing seat? I have a 8 1/2 yo in a booster and a 2 yo and 3yo in convertible seats both facing foreward. The seats that face backwards have shoulder belts.
Does anyone know if that's safe??

Thanks


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

I was just reading how it would be safer for everyone to be rear facing. So if the seat belts work properly, it should be fine for everyone except an infant who was rear facing (because s/he would then be forward facing).


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## lasciate (May 4, 2005)

No, it is not. If you check your carseat manual it will state that carseats have to be installed on forward facing seats only.


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## mamato2boys (Nov 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lasciate*
No, it is not. If you check your carseat manual it will state that carseats have to be installed on forward facing seats only.

I thought that was the case, but then I recalled someone saying that it would be safer if all kids faced rear like 4evermom stated. Do you know why carseats need to be on forewaed facing seats only?? DH says that we can take the rear facing seats out and replace them with another foreward facing bench....if we are able to find one that is...


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## lasciate (May 4, 2005)

Carseats are designed specifically to be used on forward facing seats - they haven't been tested on rear-facing seats and we have no way of knowing if they would work properly under those conditions. It's best to assume they would not and install them on seats we know they will work with.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamato2boys*
So we have a VW Syncro Van that we haven't driven in a few years but it will be road worthy soon. There is a bench seat in the back along with two single seats that face backwards. Is it safe to have carseats/kids in a rear facing seat? I have a 8 1/2 yo in a booster and a 2 yo and 3yo in convertible seats both facing foreward. The seats that face backwards have shoulder belts.
Does anyone know if that's safe??

Thanks

Nicole,

It is not safe to install a convertible safety seat in the seats that face backwards. Safety seats are tested in forward facing positions, in vehicular seats that face forward. The same rule applies to jump seats. Side facing orientation was not intended for safety seat installation either.
As for the bench seat you mentioned. If you have your older booster seat child in the bench seat, please verify that he/she has a shoulder AND a lap belt which is securing him/her. If you install your convertible seats on the bench seat, verify that the seat is deep enough to accomodate the seats safely. Meaning no more than 20% of the seat can hang over the edge. Or in other words, at least 80% of the safety seat must be in contact with the vehicle seat.

Anything else, please ask.

Dallaschildren
CPS tech and momma to 2 sons in seats


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

I don't see why the booster seat wouldn't be safe backwards. Then the two younger kids in convertible seats could be forward facing on the bench seat, assuming they fit the seat properly. It sounds like the only reason to not put the convertible seats in a rear facing seat is because the manufacturers don't say you can, rather than they say not to. It seems to me that if the car seat belts work backward, there is no reason the convertible seats wouldn't. They say for rear facing carseats, the shoulder straps should be at or below the childs shoulder. For forward facing, the shoulder straps should be at or above the child's shoulders. If I were putting a forward facing seat in a rear facing position (against the advice of the experts) I would have the straps at or below shoulder level.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom*
I don't see why the booster seat wouldn't be safe backwards. Then the two younger kids in convertible seats could be forward facing on the bench seat, assuming they fit the seat properly. It sounds like the only reason to not put the convertible seats in a rear facing seat is because the manufacturers don't say you can, rather than they say not to. It seems to me that if the car seat belts work backward, there is no reason the convertible seats wouldn't. They say for rear facing carseats, the shoulder straps should be at or below the childs shoulder. For forward facing, the shoulder straps should be at or above the child's shoulders. If I were putting a forward facing seat in a rear facing position (against the advice of the experts) I would have the straps at or below shoulder level.

















Ok, let's see....the issue if I remember correctly is if one can put a *convertible car seat* on a *VEHICLE* seat that faces backwards. NO, you cannot as car seats are not crash tested on VEHICLE seats that face backwards. If I am understanding the OP's question correctly, then what she is trying to determine, is that, in part. I don't think she has a question about which way the orientation of the car seat itself should be, but if she can put a car seat on a vehicle seat that faces backwards. Does anyone remember the Chevy station wagons that had a third row that faced backwards? So while riding in it, you were facing the cars driving behind you? I do. My parents had one and my sisters and I used to play rock paper scissors to see who got to ride back there.







Sorry...a little OT but if any of you remember that wagon, then you have a mental picture of what the OP is asking.
As for booster seats...they are classified as a car seat or child safety seat device, but it's only job is what it's name implies....it serves to "boost" the child up to the appropriate height so that the vehicle shoulder belt and lap belt fall in the correct (strongest) parts of the body. So technically, a *booster* seat could be used in a *vehicle* seat that faces backwards.

Dallaschildren
CPS tech and momma to 2 sons in seats


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## mamato2boys (Nov 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren*















So technically, a *booster* seat could be used in a *vehicle* seat that faces backwards.

Dallaschildren
CPS tech and momma to 2 sons in seats


Just wondering...when you say "technically" what are you thinking? Would you personally, as an expert, put a booster in a vehicle seat that faces backwards? or, would you feel safer with the booster in a foreward facing vehicle seat?

Side Q: In cars w/o airbags is a child still safer in the back seat?

Thanks much!


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## lasciate (May 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamato2boys*
Side Q: In cars w/o airbags is a child still safer in the back seat?

Thanks much!

Children are always safer in the back seat (in a severe crash they would hit the seat back rather than the dashboard), but they are safer in the front seat of a car w/o airbags than in the front seat of a car w/airbags. Though the seat should be put as far back as possible.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamato2boys*
Just wondering...when you say "technically" what are you thinking? Would you personally, as an expert, put a booster in a vehicle seat that faces backwards? or, would you feel safer with the booster in a foreward facing vehicle seat?

Side Q: In cars w/o airbags is a child still safer in the back seat?

Thanks much!

If the child is in a booster seat, I do not see a problem with placing them in a vehicle seat that faces backwards. This is said with the assumption that the child is at least 40 pounds, that there is a lap/shoulder belt combination with which to restrain him/her, and that they are emotionally mature enough to remain seated with the belts in the proper position.
A child 14 and younger should ALWAYS ride in the backseat whenever possible. In the middle rear seat in fact. This is because the child is the furthest from any point of impact in the rear center seating position. Passengers who ride in the front seat are on average, 30% more likely to be injured or killed than a rear seated passenger.

Dallaschildren
CPS tech and momma to 2 sons in seats


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren*















Ok, let's see....the issue if I remember correctly is if one can put a *convertible car seat* on a *VEHICLE* seat that faces backwards.

Yes, I understood. When I used the words car seat (with a space), I was referring to the vehicle seat. The time I used carseat (with no space), I meant the convertible child seat. Like I said, there is no proof that they are unsafe, which is different than saying they are safe. I wanted to point out that the booster was probably fine backwards so that the OP could decide if she wanted to invest in new vehicle seats. I also wanted to point out that the way the shoulder straps of the convertible seats were adjusted would have to be altered if one ill-advisedly chose to put them in rear facing vehicle seats.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom*
Yes, I understood. When I used the words car seat (with a space), I was referring to the vehicle seat. The time I used carseat (with no space), I meant the convertible child seat. Like I said, there is no proof that they are unsafe, which is different than saying they are safe. I wanted to point out that the booster was probably fine backwards so that the OP could decide if she wanted to invest in new vehicle seats. I also wanted to point out that the way the shoulder straps of the convertible seats were adjusted would have to be altered if one ill-advisedly chose to put them in rear facing vehicle seats.

Oh. I had no clue that's what you meant. Car seat or carseat looks the same to me. Anyhow, if one wanted to ignore safety labeling and crash testing, then that is their choice. The fact remains that crash tests are done in vehicle seats that face forward. Not backward. Whether a backwards vehicle seat orientation would be safe or unsafe, or no one knows for sure that it wouldn't be safe, is a mute point. Technological advances, stricter safety guidelines, and stricter criteria with which to gauge auto safety in relation to child passenger has changed ALOT since the car/wagon/van like the OP's came out. It is very likely that in the near future, NHTSA will make CSS's compatible and crash tested within vehicle seats that face backward or even sideways. But until then, it would be irresponsible for myself or any CPS professional to lead a parent to believe it's ok.
There is a ton of good information in the Parenting forum found in a sticky at the top.

Dallaschildren
CPS tech and momma to 2 sons in seats


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## mamato2boys (Nov 22, 2002)

Thanks all! It looks like we have a lead on bench seat that will relpace the rear facing car seats. If that falls through we'll put the booster child in the rear facing seat.

Thanks again


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