# My MIL spanked my daughter!



## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

We live with my inlaws but they KNOW we do not spank or allow them to spank. My FIL told the kids he'd take them swimming (backyard pool) but then told them to get out again after only 20 minutes. Olivia has a hard time with transitions so a little warning might have been nice (plus who takes kids swimming for only 20 minutes??). Anyways she WAS wrong, she refused to get out of the pool but I feel FIL was too harsh - he said she couldn't swim for 3 days! Then she was crying and throwing a fit and started slamming the door down to our living area. She was naked because she had taken her swimsuit off but was refusing to get dressed and my MIL came stomping over and slapped her right on the bum!







I am livid! I e-mailed my husband and he said he would call her to chew her out but I'm not sure what good that will do. I am under a lot of stress right now and I can't handle WWIII with them. What would you do???


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## homeschoolingmama (Jun 15, 2007)

I would move but that may not be possible??

I would flip if anyone laid a hand on my children. Absolutely flip.

If you want a calm answer to help you resolve this nicely maybe I am not the person to answer this







I don't think I would stay calm.

I hope you can resolve this.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I would move away from them. These people clearly do not respect you or your boundaries or your roles with your own children.

This is over the line. In most states *legally* only the parents are allowed to spank.

-Angela


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

tell them if they continue to treat your children in any way other than what you have said then they will not be able to visit with them unless you are around. remind them you are the parent, you can keep them from seeing them if you feel they are harmful to your children.


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## Tilia (Nov 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I would move away from them. These people clearly do not respect you or your boundaries or your roles with your own children.

This is over the line. In most states *legally* only the parents are allowed to spank.

-Angela

Yeah, that is true. And I don't think open hand and naked bottom is allowed either, even with parents.

That is crazy.

I guess the children are not allowed to show emotion unless it is a positive one?


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## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

I am living with in-laws as well, and moving is not a possibility at this time. My SFIL threatened to hit DD one afternoon, and although he didn't actually do it, I no longer trust him. We avoid him at all costs. We stay up in our room doing activities, or we leave the house. We rearranged our schedules so we stay up later and enjoy our dinner together after he goes to bed at 8. We get up after he has left for work.

Your MIL simply cannot be trusted around your children, so it is your obligation to not her have ANY unsupervised time with them. I seriously hope you and your dh lay into her about how WRONG she was and insist she apologize to dd. Thats just horrible.


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## Stinkerbell (Aug 11, 2005)

Is MIL normally a 'spanker"? Meaning, does she believe that YOU should spank your children?

I only ask because she may need help learning other methods and controlling herself in that situation. It's absolutely IMPERATIVE that she not hit your children (especially knowing it is not okay with you!!) but that doesn't mean it will come easy for her.

I am not justifying MIL's actions in anyway at all...I probably would have lost my mind if I were you! But I'm saying if you know this is likely to be a problem in the future, you might have to help her find a better method.

I dont know your situation but I am always quick to consider that a grandparent's role in their grandchildren's lives should be preserved if possible.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

I would talk to MIL and tell her that is completely unacceptable. I would tell her she is NEVER to hit my child again, no exceptions. I would also not allow unsupervised access to the kids for a little while until I saw that she was respecting my wishes. I think you need to very clearly lay down the rules here. It is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. If she broke my trust again, I would very strictly limit the exposure my children had with her and I would try to find ways to get out of the house as quickly as possible.


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## langyork (Dec 6, 2007)

I never ever leave my kids with in laws or my parents. Just be on call all the time with you or dh.

I think the best way to get to MIL is to let her know you don't trust her, NOT giving her a lecture. I think that will stress everyone out.


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## rosegirl (Aug 2, 2007)

supervised time only!! I'm so sorry mama. How is your daughter?? Is she upset?


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## SkylarJulesmom (Feb 11, 2007)

I lived with my mom (very abusive to me when I was a child though she never ever hit my children.) and it was absolutely clear that my children were not to be spanked, ever. Here's what I would've done in the same situation...
First take a big deep breath. Then take mil on the side out of ear shot of dd and explain to her that if she knows our rules of not spanking why would she have done it? Was it out of frustration? Was it because she had no other course of action? Then I would explain to her that even though you have to live together because of xyz does not mean you are handing over discipline of your kids to her and that if she can't control her actions then she just needs to leave the room! That's it. Then sit down with dd and mil and talk about what had happened, don't take control away from your mil (I say this bc if an emergency arrises you need her to have your daughters respect and to listen to what she says) but let dd know that what she(mil) did was not acceptable for you. If mil agrees what she did was wrong have her apologize for her behavior and promise to choose a different course of action the next time a situation arrises. Of course that said you mil would now be on moderation and not allowed to have unsupervised time with your kids until your living situation changes. Once a spanker almost always a spanker. hth!


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

So, when your kids are grown up and in therapy, how do you want the story to go?

My mom and dad lived with my cranky, short tempered grandparents until I was _____ years old. My mom really did/did not stick up for us. I remember the time that my grandfather provoked a fight with me/my sister by only letting us be in the pool for a few minutes and when I/my sister got upset, my grandmother came over and hit her.

My mom/dad responded by__________________________________________

That really made me feel ___________________________________________


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

I don't have kids, but my MIL lives with us. She lives with us because she can't support herself, so moving's not really an option.

The only thing I found that works with my MIL is to stay calm, state how things are going to be, and then excecute-- never escalate.

Don't have DH chew her out. I would have DH explain that becuase they spanked they won't be spending any time alone with the dd's.

Don't try to explain, or convince, or give second chances right now. Second chances come after you prove that you've changed.


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## lizzybugsmommy (Jul 9, 2008)

Ohh MILs I had mine living with us and she tried to take over my DD. I had to put my foot down. I would calm down and talk to her. She may have been frustrated. Remember when most of us were growing up it was socialy acceptable to spank, whoop, or whip your children to keep them in line. She may not know any other way to get her point accross. I am not taking up for her at all she should never hit a child. I would also purchase her a book about disaplin and ask her to read it. This will hopefully let her see the light. But please remain calm If she loves her Grandkids she will see that this is not right for them. Also you could tell her you dont want her GC to remember her for the bad you want them to remember the good.
HTH
Catherine


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aquarian* 
Don't have DH chew her out. I would have DH explain that becuase they spanked they won't be spending any time alone with the dd's

nak







:


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## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

I'd tell her that what she did was wrong, and then I would do whatever I could to get my family out of that house. IMO, your fil telling dd she couldn't swim for 3 days was way out of line, too. If your inlaws aren't on board with your discipline, then they shouldn't be disciplining your dc.


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## Nan'sMom (May 23, 2005)

Wow, if I couldn't move I would at the very least make it 100% clear that your MIL is never under any circumstances to discipline your children again and never leave them alone together (yes, maybe some hurt feelings would result but sounds like a safety issue to me). As for your dd, make sure to hear her and validate whatever she is feeling.

Best of luck with this!


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## Belia (Dec 22, 2007)

I have to admit that I'm a little surprised by the vehemence of everyone's responses here.

*DISCLAIMER* I do NOT believe in spanking or hitting of any kind, and I absolutely believe that ILs should respect the parenting style of their children.

But I have also read other threads on this forum (just today, actually) where parents have "lost it" and swatted their kids and the responses were much more empathetic.

MIL and FIL are people, too. It doesn't sound like this has been an ongoing problem, or else why would the OP have left the kids with them in the first place? Don't these children's grandparents at least deserve a conversation before they're cut off from their GC?

"Gee, MIL, it sounds like everybody had a really rough day today. What happened? I wonder why today was so much rougher than usual. You and FIL know how important it is to me and DH that our kids never be spanked, so I have to admit to feeling pretty upset and confused right now."

I would think that their response would provide a lot of insight and direction to appropriate next steps. If MIL and FIL start talking about how the kids are "out-of-control" and "in their day, they wouldn't put up with any such nonsense" and "if you would just show those kids who's boss"..... well, then I would agree that limiting their time with the kids would be appropriate.

But if the response you get is more along the lines of "Gee, I don't know what happened.... I just snapped and I feel so bad..... I guess DD just pushed my buttons and I reacted badly... I'm so sorry".... well, then you can go from there.

We ALL have bad days, and we ALL make bad choices sometimes. I think EVERYONE deserves some GD, no matter how old they are.


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## jjawm (Jun 17, 2007)

If your ILs are going to be interacting with your children, let them know that when they are getting frustrated with the kids, or even if the kids misbehave, to let you or dh handle it. That gets them off the hook for having to respond in a way that is foreign (gp), and allows you to parent your children in a gentle manner. The would only work, of course, if you and dh are around. But since she spanked your lo, I can imagine you'd be hesitant to let her supervise your children alone.


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear this.
I don't really have any advice because if it had been my MIL I would've handled her in a not so GD way. But we don't have a good relationship.
Since you guys live together, I guess you'd have to come up with a more amicable solution. I'd say try to talk to her calmly about it to avoid her getting defensive.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I don't think you have to be mean but I do think you have to be extremely firm and clear:

"What happened yesterday was unacceptable. I do not want it to happen again. What can we do about it so it does not happen? (Or present your solution)"

(blah blah it was only a little...)

Repeat 12 times: "It is unacceptable. I don't want it to happen again. Let's agree on how to prevent it."


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Belia* 
I have to admit that I'm a little surprised by the vehemence of everyone's responses here.

We ALL have bad days, and we ALL make bad choices sometimes. I think EVERYONE deserves some GD, no matter how old they are.









:


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## veronicalynne (Nov 4, 2006)

I would try to be calm but I would tell them that:
1) It is unacceptable for MIL to hit MY child, and
2) It is not up to FIL to decide punishments

If he doesnt want to take them to a swimming pool then by all means don't! It is one thing for a parent to discipline THEIR CHILD but not acceptable for others to discipline IMO. Btw, I am not endorsing spanking or hitting. I practice GD (or I try my best to) but it is up to the parents to parent not the inlaws, or grandparents etc. I personally would be wary about leaving my children with grandparents who don't respect your boundaries.

On another note, I know this is way, way in the future but I am getting tons of advice and info on how to be a grandparent and not try to take over my kids lives when they in turn become parents.....it crosses my mind whenever I read posts like this


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## ~girlsmum~ (May 10, 2008)

Sometimes I love being an "older" mom cuz I'm not afraid of WWIII. I have one of my twins who is just turning 2 and she throws tantrums very regularly, if I spanked her every time, she'd have constant bruising. I have a MIL who knows that you touch my baby girls and there is going to be a very serious issue going on there. My DH and I are quite capable of dealing with our own girls and I myself have a 15 year old from a prior marriage and I wasn't any more lenient with others towards her. My girls don't spend the night away from me and are rarely babysat by anyone but mommy/daddy/big sister!







:


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

I would just have lots of excuses for the kids not ever going over there again. Read that great book by Susan Forward about Toxic Inlaws.










good for you for sticking up for your dd.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Belia* 
I have to admit that I'm a little surprised by the vehemence of everyone's responses here.

*DISCLAIMER* I do NOT believe in spanking or hitting of any kind, and I absolutely believe that ILs should respect the parenting style of their children.

But I have also read other threads on this forum (just today, actually) where parents have "lost it" and swatted their kids and the responses were much more empathetic.


There is a fundamental difference between spanking your own children and spanking someone else's children.

IMO - it's is NEVER OK, but sometimes understandable to spank your own children...

But it is NEVER OK and NEVER understandable to spank someone else's children.

Think about this in a different scenario. Would you be giving the same "they're people too" if it was a stranger? How about a daycare provider? What about a friend? Or your kid's friend's mom?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

(((hugs))) to you mama. I'd be livid.


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## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Belia* 
I have to admit that I'm a little surprised by the vehemence of everyone's responses here... I think EVERYONE deserves some GD, no matter how old they are.

I agree. but I haven't read anything here that suggested treating ils in an ungentle way. You have to protect your children first. For example, if one of my kids kicked my dog, I would talk to my dc, and possibly separate my dog from my dc until I had faith that the dog would be safe. That's not un-gd.

Screaming at ils, blaming, shaming, that's un-gd. Telling them they were wrong and keeping kids away if you don't think they'll be safe is totally gd, imo.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *colleen95* 
I agree. but I haven't read anything here that suggested treating ils in an ungentle way. You have to protect your children first. For example, if one of my kids kicked my dog, I would talk to my dc, and possibly separate my dog from my dc until I had faith that the dog would be safe. That's not un-gd.

Screaming at ils, blaming, shaming, that's un-gd. Telling them they were wrong and keeping kids away if you don't think they'll be safe is totally gd, imo.









:


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
There is a fundamental difference between spanking your own children and spanking someone else's children.

IMO - it's is NEVER OK, but sometimes understandable to spank your own children...

But it is NEVER OK and NEVER understandable to spank someone else's children.

Think about this in a different scenario. Would you be giving the same "they're people too" if it was a stranger? How about a daycare provider? What about a friend? Or your kid's friend's mom?

And







: to this too.


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## lovemybubus (Oct 2, 2007)

I would seriously call the police on her. Ok, that might make your living situation a little awkward (I was only 1/2 serious) but you might want to consider making very strong, firm boundaries with them. That is not only disrespectful to you but harmful to your daughter. I'm sorry you are going thru this. I can imagine that you are having a very difficult time right now! Maybe you all could go to family counseling? I always look at situations like this:
If it a relationship worth salvaging then I work on it, if it's worth it that's what you do.
If it's a relationship I can live without then I try to set firm boundaries and go on about my life. Now that I have kids I have found that most relationships are worth the effort. I want to set an example for my children that friendships are more then something you just throw away. However, for me, hitting is a non-negotiable. My MIL would have to beg my forgiveness and take anger management courses or something like it.

Best of luck to you,
Maybe you cold keep us posted on your outcome!


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I certainly wouldn't go crazy.

I wouldn't move out over this.

I wouldn't call the police and press charges.

I would talk to MIL calmly and explain that I NEVER want my child spanked again. Then go over other ways that they can deal with it when they are frustrated with her.

But, some of these ideas seem a little over the top to me.

If you really feel like you can't trust them, stop leaving her in their care. If you REALLY must leave her in their care, make sure they understand WHY you don't like spanking.

Grandma could have sent her to her room instead, and it would have been a LOT better for everybody involved.


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## Kathryn B (Jan 23, 2007)

I believe very strongly in people not hitting each other and especially adults not hitting children. I also believe very strongly in parents disciplining their children ("discipline" does not mean "punish") and training them how to behave properly in a variety of situations. Perhaps 20 minutes of supervising swimming was all your FIL could handle; he should not be forced to do more than that just because someone chooses not to behave well. It is understandable if a two or three year-old cannot handle transitions well, but at age 5, it's not about "transitions", it's about just having a fit. Now, you have two older people who are being kind enough to allow their son and his family to live in their home and one of these grandchildren is having a full-on fit; perhaps it seemed to your MIL that no one else was going to do anything to stop the noise and awfulness that the 5 year-old was introducing into the home and she just reacted. Did she react poorly? Yes. What was the child's mother doing to discipline the child? We don't know, but my guess is that if the mother had taken the child to a room and kindly let her know that this sort of behavior was not allowed and that the privilege of swimming was for people who could behave graciously and that perhaps the child could try swimming again in a few days if she could be sweet and apologize to grandpa; perhaps, if this had happened, the MIL would not have spanked the child.

Rather than being upset with my MIL, I would be terribly embarrassed to have a child behaving so ungraciously in someone else's home. I think the MIL and FIL are owed an apology and I think little-Miss needs to spend less time in the pool until she can behave. It might be a good idea to say something to your MIL along the lines of, "I know Olivia's behavior was atrocious; I am so sorry. I would really prefer that she not be hit, though. I will strive to discipline her better so that we don't have these problems."


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Anyways she WAS wrong, she refused to get out of the pool but I feel FIL was too harsh - he said she couldn't swim for 3 days!

Um, and you have given your FIL the authority to dole out these punishments?


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
Grandma could have sent her to her room instead, and it would have been a LOT better for everybody involved.

Just curious...

Do other people's children, when in a state as described in the op (naked, screaming, slamming doors-type fit) actually _go_ to their room when sent? Because, when my dd is that out of control, she needs physical "help" going to her room. I would not want anyone other than her father or me doing that, though, because it is hands-on and involves some physical forcefulness.

That is why I feel the grandparents should not have alone time with the dc. It isn't so much a "punishment" as it is acknowledgement of the situation--the grandparents are not equipped to deal with the behavior of the grandchildren appropriately. Maybe when the dc are older and less prone to tantrums, it will be different.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn B* 
I believe very strongly in people not hitting each other and especially adults not hitting children. I also believe very strongly in parents disciplining their children ("discipline" does not mean "punish") and training them how to behave properly in a variety of situations. Perhaps 20 minutes of supervising swimming was all your FIL could handle; he should not be forced to do more than that just because someone chooses not to behave well. It is understandable if a two or three year-old cannot handle transitions well, but at age 5, it's not about "transitions", it's about just having a fit. Now, you have two older people who are being kind enough to allow their son and his family to live in their home and one of these grandchildren is having a full-on fit; perhaps it seemed to your MIL that no one else was going to do anything to stop the noise and awfulness that the 5 year-old was introducing into the home and she just reacted. Did she react poorly? Yes. What was the child's mother doing to discipline the child? We don't know, but my guess is that if the mother had taken the child to a room and kindly let her know that this sort of behavior was not allowed and that the privilege of swimming was for people who could behave graciously and that perhaps the child could try swimming again in a few days if she could be sweet and apologize to grandpa; perhaps, if this had happened, the MIL would not have spanked the child.

Rather than being upset with my MIL, I would be terribly embarrassed to have a child behaving so ungraciously in someone else's home. I think the MIL and FIL are owed an apology and I think little-Miss needs to spend less time in the pool until she can behave. It might be a good idea to say something to your MIL along the lines of, "I know Olivia's behavior was atrocious; I am so sorry. I would really prefer that she not be hit, though. I will strive to discipline her better so that we don't have these problems."

Welcome to Mothering!

You may have missed in the first post that the OP shares a home with her husband's parents. So, "little-Miss" (which I'm assuming you mean affectionately toward a younger person rather than sarcastically) was in her own home at the time.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
Just curious...

Do other people's children, when in a state as described in the op (naked, screaming, slamming doors-type fit) actually _go_ to their room when sent? Because, when my dd is that out of control, she needs physical "help" going to her room. *I would not want anyone other than her father or me doing that, though, because it is hands-on and involves some physical forcefulness.*

Do you hold that for all situations?

My DD is 20 months. I know that once when we left her at my parents she threw a major fit, and when she looses it - she really looses it. I am completely fine with my dad gently (I believe him) picking her up off the hard tile floor and moving her to a safe location. If I'd been there I would have stayed with her - so I was a bit sad that he put her on the soft carpet floor in the guest bedroom and left (with the door open). But there was nothing 'wrong' about his approach. If he'd spanked her - I would have been furious and it would be along time before they spent time with her alone.

I babysit 2yo twins and a 4.5 yo girl. I have exactly once picked the 4.5yo up and moved her. She was throwing a fit in the middle of the toddlers and it was easier to move her than move 3 toddler and keep them away from her. I don't think that was inappropriate. (I moved her up onto the couch)

Sometimes kid need physical help. I think it is FAR more kind for a grandparent to recognize that a 5yo needs some space and time to cool down and to physically help that happen than to allow/permit a child to continue in such a state of distress. I think that it must be a horrible feeling for a small child to be that out of control.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

So, Heavenly, lots of advice here! Is there an update?


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I think that you should very strongly express your feelings about your MIL hitting your child, especially if she did it when you were there. You should also be right on top of things in the future if you are there.
If you were not there then you do need to have a conversation about this and if they tend to lean towards spanking and ignoring what you prefer for your kids then you should try to not let them stay alone with the children.
If they are providing a free service and basically helping you with raising your children then they probably do feel that they have the right to discipline them in whatever way they see fit. Grandparents tend to see themselves as family rather than as the childcare provider and they tend to believe that they have more leway when it comes to disciplining a child than the babysitter would typically think they have. This is probably not how you feel, it is definitely not something I would be comfortable with. You should talk to them about respecting your wishes when they are with your children and consider other alternatives for childcare if they don't seem like they will respect your wishes.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Belia* 
But I have also read other threads on this forum (just today, actually) where parents have "lost it" and swatted their kids and the responses were much more empathetic.

Have you ever seen a thread where someone "lost it" with someone else's child and people were empathetic?

People have empathy not for the "losing it" but for the decision to admit to that and the effort to re-find "it". It's empathy for parenting 24/7 and making a mistake in that time.

If someone were to come here and admit to hitting a child they were only babysitting, before the thread was closed you'd see some nasty nasty posts about how they never should've agreed to babysit if they couldn't control themselves.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

As for "she was wrong, she didn't get out of the pool"--was there an emergency? My little brother and I were still getting 10 and 5 minute warnings for stuff like leaving the pool when we were 10 and 15. Sheesh, I still try to give dh at least 5 minutes head's-up for stuff like helping me lift a box, and he shows me the same courtesy.

If there wasn't an emergency, your FIL's decision seems quite rude. Your MIL's method of backing up FIL's mistake was unacceptable.

But then, it is just the sort of disrespect I'd expect from people who are willing to treat children as less than human.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *One_Girl* 
If they are providing a free service *and basically raising your children* then they probably do feel that they have the right to discipline them in whatever way they see fit.









I don't see anywhere in the OP where that was insinuated. Was that really called for?


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn B* 
Perhaps 20 minutes of supervising swimming was all your FIL could handle; he should not be forced to do more than that just because someone chooses not to behave well.

Then he shouldn't have offered, or at the very least have warned them at the time swimming was first mentioned that it would be a very quick dip. If someone offered you an ice cream sundae and then took it away after you took two bites, wouldn't you be upset?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn B* 
It is understandable if a two or three year-old cannot handle transitions well, but at age 5, it's not about "transitions", it's about just having a fit.

What is magic about that age gap that is supposed to happen? I've never heard of any developmental shift then that makes transitions easier.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn B* 
perhaps it seemed to your MIL that no one else was going to do anything to stop the noise and awfulness that the 5 year-old was introducing into the home and she just reacted. Did she react poorly? Yes. What was the child's mother doing to discipline the child?

Why is the expression of emotion something requiring discipline? Suppose the MIL was the one expressing "noise and awfulness", say she just found out her friend has cancer, or someone ran over her dog, or some other devastating thing and is having a very loud cry. Should everyone be embarrassed and angered by her behavior? Should someone take her into a room and tell her not to behave that way in front of people, or at all? Or should she be offered empathy, a hug, a shoulder, someone to listen to her vent?


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## My*Scorpio (Aug 15, 2006)

My MIL hit my son once too. He was around 18 months at the time. I didn't end up doing anything about it. MIL lives 9 hours away and only sees him once or twice a year. I was at work when it happened. I actually felt more mad at the babysitter than MIL. My resolution is that he won't be around her without me or DH around.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 







I don't see anywhere in the OP where that was insinuated. Was that really called for?

I didn't even realize I had typed that, I typed really fast. I meant to put "basically helping you raise your child" which many people, moms included but especially people who are babysitting, think they are doing. I do think that it is important to keep in mind that even if you don't think you are getting help with raising you child from a babysitter of any kind, even family, they may think that you are and they may feel entitled to do things their own way especially if they aren't getting paid. Thanks for bringing that mistake to my attention. I hate coming off as intentionally mean.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
Do you hold that for all situations?
.

For my child, age 7, yes. Also true for my dc at age 5. Toddlerhood is a different story (smaller child, more accepted behavior, etc).

The difference may well be in how the child reacts when you move her. My point is only that sending the child to her room, or even moving the child to her room, is not always possible for a grandparent. And, if that is the case, there needs to be a boundary that _the parents alone_ discipline the dc, which requires that _the parents alone_ supervise the dc.


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## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn B* 
he should not be forced to do more than that just because someone chooses not to behave well...at age 5, it's not about "transitions", it's about just having a fit...my guess is that if the mother had taken the child to a room and kindly let her know that this sort of behavior was not allowed and that the privilege of swimming was for people who could behave graciously and that perhaps the child could try swimming again in a few days if she could be sweet and apologize to grandpa...I would be terribly embarrassed to have a child behaving so ungraciously..

Hi Kathryn,
Welcome to Mothering and Gentle Discipline.









I was a shocked by your post, and maybe that was the intent. It came across as blaming the child and the mother. The op came here for support and advice, and voicing a suspicion that it was really her fault is not helpful. Kids don't "decide" to behave badly, certainly not at 5. Lots of things can cause any person to lose control of their emotions. Stress from changes, tiredness, growing pains. Seems that you understand it in the grandparents, but not the 5 yr old. I also don't see healthy exercise as a "priviledge" to be earned. Asking her to apologize AFTER being hit seems downright cruel. I think anyone would interpret this as "you got what you deserved, now apologize."

Anyway, to the op, if you're still reading,


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## ians_mommy (Apr 5, 2008)

:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *colleen95* 
Hi Kathryn,
Welcome to Mothering and Gentle Discipline.









I was a shocked by your post, and maybe that was the intent. It came across as blaming the child and the mother. The op came here for support and advice, and voicing a suspicion that it was really her fault is not helpful. Kids don't "decide" to behave badly, certainly not at 5. Lots of things can cause any person to lose control of their emotions. Stress from changes, tiredness, growing pains. Seems that you understand it in the grandparents, but not the 5 yr old. I also don't see healthy exercise as a "priviledge" to be earned. Asking her to apologize AFTER being hit seems downright cruel. I think anyone would interpret this as "you got what you deserved, now apologize."

Anyway, to the op, if you're still reading,


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *colleen95* 
I also don't see healthy exercise as a "priviledge" to be earned. Asking her to apologize AFTER being hit seems downright cruel. I think anyone would interpret this as "you got what you deserved, now apologize."

1) Swimming in a pool is a privilege. It is not a right. It if were then most of the country would be in violation of that... Healthy exercise is a right - and a responsibility - but that can be achieved through running around in a grassy area. At least for us - it's a fun treat to go swimming.

2) She didn't say that the girl should apologize to the person who hit her. She said to "grandpa"... The person she was rude to.

But beyond that - I think that the girl, the grandfather and the grandmother all have things they could apologize for. What the grandmother did doesn't negate the fact that the 5yo was throwing a fit and slamming doors.

In my house, throwing a fit is something we do in private. We don't subject everyone else to a violent display of emotion. If I want to swear about my day at work and slam things (which does feel good once in a while - it's a nice release) I do so in private. I don't do it in front of DH or DD. As DD gets older I will be perfectly fine with her wanting to let me know how she feels - she can cry and be sad. She can do that in public. But if she wants to throw a fit - I will help her get to her room so that she can do it in safety and privacy. She certainly won't be permitted to damage the family's property by slamming doors.


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## Kathryn B (Jan 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
I think that the girl, the grandfather and the grandmother all have things they could apologize for. What the grandmother did doesn't negate the fact that the 5yo was throwing a fit and slamming doors.

In my house, throwing a fit is something we do in private. We don't subject everyone else to a violent display of emotion.

Thank you for bringing out the point I was trying to make -- it seems to me that everyone in this scenario could have chosen a more polite way to behave.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn B* 
I believe very strongly in people not hitting each other and especially adults not hitting children. I also believe very strongly in parents disciplining their children ("discipline" does not mean "punish") and training them how to behave properly in a variety of situations. Perhaps 20 minutes of supervising swimming was all your FIL could handle; he should not be forced to do more than that just because someone chooses not to behave well. It is understandable if a two or three year-old cannot handle transitions well, but at age 5, it's not about "transitions", it's about just having a fit. Now, you have two older people who are being kind enough to allow their son and his family to live in their home and one of these grandchildren is having a full-on fit; perhaps it seemed to your MIL that no one else was going to do anything to stop the noise and awfulness that the 5 year-old was introducing into the home and she just reacted. Did she react poorly? Yes. What was the child's mother doing to discipline the child? We don't know, but my guess is that if the mother had taken the child to a room and kindly let her know that this sort of behavior was not allowed and that the privilege of swimming was for people who could behave graciously and that perhaps the child could try swimming again in a few days if she could be sweet and apologize to grandpa; perhaps, if this had happened, the MIL would not have spanked the child.

I see your point of view. I also can see the child's point of view. Someone tells her she can go swimming. She is given _no time limit for it_ and shortly after getting into the pool, she has to get out of the pool, apparently without ANY explanation as to why she should stop enjoying herself in the water. _Just do it now._ She is disappointed, doesn't understand why she has to leave the water and doesn't want to. When she uses probably the only defence she knows against this (to my mind, completely inappropriate) attitude to her, which is simply to stay in the water, she is further banned from the pool for three days, a ridiculous punishment to impose in mid-summer. (It's the kind of punishment that will merely produce three days of boredom and more "fits" inside the house.) At this point, she is so angry and, being 5, expresses this anger by having a "fit" in the house. My response to the grandparents: well, what on earth did you expect?

I would be furious if I were that little girl. How would you like it it someone told you that he would accompany you to a place where you could not be alone, and then only 20 minutes into it, said "Sorry, time's up! Gotta run!"? How positively RUDE to string someone along like that and then drop the person. Now imagine that you are 5 years old and think of the reaction you might have. And then imagine someone smacking you on the bum for your reaction, just to let you know that not only is slamming the door wrong, but that you really have no reason to be mad at all. Your emotions are not valid ones.

I don't care if the child is a "guest" in the house. To her, it is her home. And the grandparents, to my mind, have no clue how to deal with children (apparently, they do not deserve the same respect as grown-ups) and that is the real problem.


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## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
1) Swimming in a pool is a privilege...In my house, throwing a fit is something we do in private. We don't subject everyone else to a violent display of emotion...But if she wants to throw a fit - I will help her get to her room so that she can do it in safety and privacy. She certainly won't be permitted to damage the family's property by slamming doors.

Hey Kessed,

Well, you and I are just coming from a different place.

Perhaps I need to read the op again, but I still fail to see how a 5 yr old tantrum is "rude." Your phrasing this as the child _chose_ to "throw a fit," and should be punished for it. First, that's not how tantrums work. No one would consciously _choose_ to be overwhelmed with frightening emotions. There is also a difference between a distress tantrum and a control tantrum. I don't think the op gave us information sufficient to assume it was the latter.

Teaching a child to hide intense feelings, or be ashamed of them, has repercussions. We're still talking about a 5 yr old. The emotional maturity it would take to hide your feelings, remove yourself from the upsetting situation, and experience those feelings in a more acceptable location is waaaay beyond a 5 yr old. I don't think I could do it.









We do not punish or withhold priviledges, since I believe that approach puts the focus on the wrong thing. I do agree with you that children need to understand the effect they have on others, and to be considerate. Forcing a child to apologize to gain a priviledge does not teach the child to feel sorry. It teaches the child to make an insincere apology when forced to. I am all for my kids apologizing, when appropriate, but only if it is sincere.

Anyway, to each his own.


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## Kathryn B (Jan 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RomanGoddess* 
I see your point of view. I also can see the child's point of view. Someone tells her she can go swimming. She is given _no time limit for it_ and shortly after getting into the pool, she has to get out of the pool, apparently without ANY explanation as to why she should stop enjoying herself in the water. _Just do it now._ She is disappointed, doesn't understand why she has to leave the water and doesn't want to. When she uses probably the only defence she knows against this (to my mind, completely inappropriate) attitude to her, which is simply to stay in the water, she is further banned from the pool for three days, a ridiculous punishment to impose in mid-summer. (It's the kind of punishment that will merely produce three days of boredom and more "fits" inside the house.) At this point, she is so angry and, being 5, expresses this anger by having a "fit" in the house. My response to the grandparents: well, what on earth did you expect?

We haven't been told any of the specifics of the swimming other than FIL said they could swim and then had them get out after 20 minutes. We don't know if someone was being unsafe or breaking rules or fighting and, therefore giving FIL a reason to cut the time short; we also don't know whether or not things were explained to the child before she was asked to get out of the pool. The mother has not said she was there and, based on what she reports happened, I assume she wasn't. We are not told how long the son and his family have been living with his parents; we don't know if it has been years or a few weeks so we cannot assume that the child is unable to recognize that this is her grandparents' home -- even if it is the home she was born in, violent angry outbursts are not something that should be forced on other people. Is it understandable? -- Of course. Should the grandparents have anticipated it? Possibly; we don't really know the full circumstances, nor do we know how often this child chooses to express herself through having fits rather than using a more positive form of communication. Granted, I am assuming that this child is smart enough to know how to behave to get what she wants. Maybe having fits has worked for her in the past, or maybe she has been able to get what she wants by simply demanding or wheedling -- we don't know -- all we have been told is that she chose to express her emotions by having a fit. I do not insult her intelligence by suggesting that she is not capable of choosing to behave well. An intelligent 5 year-old is capable of being polite and gracious -- even an unintelligent 5 year-old can be taught and guided to behave well and make good choices.

I still think the mother ought to apologize for her child behaving badly and then to stress to her ILs that SHE will be responsible for disciplining her child and that the ILs don't need to take on that role.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I wouldn't force my child to apologize. After being punished like that, she doesn't owe anybody an apology.

I think I'd also be a little too mad at my inlaws for spanking her that I doubt I could apoligize sincerely.

I might not be as mad if my Inlaws had no idea whatsoever that we don't use spanking. I still think spanking someone elses child is innapropriate even in a spanking household. Grnadma hit her out of anger, because she got mad and didn't give it any further thought.

BUT, I would start to expect more from my five year old than this. Giving labels like "Has a hard time with transitions" aren't going to keep working if she has to go to school. Nearly everybody has a hard time with transitions.

I am a very impatient person. It really bothers me to have to wait for things that I want. But, I don't get to cut in line because I have a hard time waiting. I was like this as a child. I really hated to wait. (but, I was a slowpoke) Even as a five year old, I was still expected to follow the rules of the world. We all have to suck it up.

I'm also the most impatient driver. But, It isn't O.K to make other people suffer because I feel like they are driving too slow, or driving poorly. I WANT to cut them off. But, I don't because it's not how you share the road.

I see adults all the time who will nearly drive an older slower driver off the freeway because they are driving too slow in the fast lane. I always imagine those are the people who's parents excused their bad behavior with a label. "She's always had a hard time with patience".

I am assuming Grandpa had a good reason for making the kids come back out of the pool. Maybe someone was being too obnoxious, and They HAD a warning to stop doing whatever it was they were doing. Maybe Grandpa felt like he couldn't keep track of them for some reason. Maybe he had a bad feeling about something and was following his instinct.

Being really, really mad is one thing. Slamming doors and causing everybody else to suffer is something else. That's when we go to our room to as my mom said "suffer in silence please".


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *colleen95* 
Hey Kessed,

Well, you and I are just coming from a different place.

Perhaps I need to read the op again, but I still fail to see how a 5 yr old tantrum is "rude." Your phrasing this as the child _chose_ to "throw a fit," and should be punished for it. First, that's not how tantrums work. No one would consciously _choose_ to be overwhelmed with frightening emotions. There is also a difference between a distress tantrum and a control tantrum. I don't think the op gave us information sufficient to assume it was the latter.

Teaching a child to hide intense feelings, or be ashamed of them, has repercussions. We're still talking about a 5 yr old. The emotional maturity it would take to hide your feelings, remove yourself from the upsetting situation, and experience those feelings in a more acceptable location is waaaay beyond a 5 yr old. I don't think I could do it.









I didn't say ANYTHING about hiding feelings/emotions or being ashamed of them!!!!!!!! Please don't put words in my mouth.

I also didn't say that the 5yo choose to throw a tantrum - that's ridiculous.

However - I possibly have a different approach to dealing with these things. I believe that my role as a parent is to teach my child in such a way that I prepare her for being an adult. And part of that is learning that there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to _display_ emotions. It isn't OK to slam doors whether you're 5 or 50. It ins't OK to scream and yell - it doesn't matter what age.

Those are things that I believe should be done in privacy. Adults in general do this - they walk away to cool down. I personally like to cry when I'm overwhelmed. I go to my room, flop on my bed and sob. When I feel better I figure out how to deal with whatever's overwhelming me. I feel that it's my job to teach my DD how to cope and deal with very strong emotions.

Of course I wouldn't expect a 5yo to be able to do that on her own!!!! I didn't say that I would. I expect that the parent/care giver would help guide her to find some space in which to calm down.

And I completely agree - no kid would 'choose' to have a tantrum. That isn't fun for anyone. That' why I think that it's my job to help her figure out how to calm down sooner rather than later...

Quote:

We do not punish or withhold priviledges, since I believe that approach puts the focus on the wrong thing. I do agree with you that children need to understand the effect they have on others, and to be considerate. Forcing a child to apologize to gain a priviledge does not teach the child to feel sorry. It teaches the child to make an insincere apology when forced to. I am all for my kids apologizing, when appropriate, but only if it is sincere.

Anyway, to each his own.








I wouldn't force a child to apologize. That doesn't mean she doesn't have something to apologize for. There are many apologies that will go ungiven in life. That doesn't negate that they were warrented.

I also think that removing something which is overwhelming to the child isn't a 'punishment'. If the 5yo can't handle going swimming with grandpa - then it' reasonable to stop that for some period of time. I put away the clothes for my DD's dolls. She can't handle the frutration level of trying to put them on and not being able. That wasn't a punishment. That was seeing her abilities for what they are and adjusting things. The 4.5 yo I babysit was, at first, able to play in the curtains in my living room with no problems. Then it started to caue attitude and behavior problems... She would hide behind them when it was time to go outside, or when it was time to clean up toy.... So she lost the priviledge of playing behind them for a couple weeks. I tied them up before she got there and that' how they stayed. When she got the privilege back - she remembered that she still had to listen when she was playing there. And we haven't had a problem since.

I agree that doing something taking away dessert for not getting out of the swimming pool make no sense. But having such a direct link is useful. The girl refused to get out of the pool nicely - so she's not allowed to get in for awhile. That make sense to me. The 3 day part doesn't. That's a bizarre rigidity that drives me crazy. What if in 3 days the girl still isn't willing to listen. Or what if the next day she's really sorry and ready to listen? I don't like random times put on things like restrictions or time-outs.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

wow. like pps said i dont think it the fault of the child for losing control. this happens to everyone even adults and she has not yet learned to regain control. perhaps the slamming doors and what not was more of a reaction to the harshness of the fil then it was to being asked to get out of the pool? and like everyone said it is never ok to hit a child ever. maybe you could try and explain to your inlaws the difference between acting and reacting. if they had taken a few deep breaths and decided to act instead of react this may not have happened (the mil hitting a little girl is mroe of a hissy fit then the little girl had she was only slamming doors mil was hitting peoplei dont think the little girl should have to apologize for not yet being able to be in full control all of the time. thats nuts. although a conversation about controlling onesself may be in order. fil and mil should both apologize for reacting inappropriately (probably they should word it differently). and then after they have both apologized then she can promise to try and listen better. if her feelings were hurt by fil (we know they were by mil) maybe she could be encouraged to share that with them? help them see why that isnt acceptable? also i would make it clear with the inlaws whether or not they are allowed to punish. i would reccomend not just because you obviously have different ideas about that. i realize this may be hard if you are not there b/c then what do they do... hmm i dont know about that maybe someone else would have an idea b/c i doubt you can be there all the time.''

o also once maybe..she ever did it again? get the heck out of there.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn B* 
We haven't been told any of the specifics of the swimming other than FIL said they could swim and then had them get out after 20 minutes. We don't know if someone was being unsafe or breaking rules or fighting and, therefore giving FIL a reason to cut the time short; we also don't know whether or not things were explained to the child before she was asked to get out of the pool. The mother has not said she was there and, based on what she reports happened, I assume she wasn't.

Quote from the OP:

Quote:

My FIL told the kids he'd take them swimming (backyard pool) but then told them to get out again after only 20 minutes. Olivia has a hard time with transitions so a little warning might have been nice (plus who takes kids swimming for only 20 minutes??).
She would be omitting a fairly important fact if someone was not being safe in the pool. To me, it is pretty clear that Grandpa just decided that swimming was over, period, and told Olivia, without even saying, "okay, 5 more minutes", let alone giving any particular reason for it. He probably just didn't feel like "babysitting" the kids in the pool anymore. Fine, then either don't promise to take them to the pool in the first place or tell them that it's going to be just a very short swim (or even better, why not just to let them run in the sprinkler if you know that they won't be able to stay in the pool that long?).


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 







I don't see anywhere in the OP where that was insinuated. Was that really called for?

They aren't providing any service and they sure as hell aren't "raising" my children. My DH and I are raising our children but we do live with my in-laws so yes, they do have more contact with the children than the average grandparents. When the incident happened I was in our apartment (the basement) doing some work while my youngest napped. Pardon me for not being with my kids every single solitary second of their lives!


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn B* 
We haven't been told any of the specifics of the swimming other than FIL said they could swim and then had them get out after 20 minutes. We don't know if someone was being unsafe or breaking rules or fighting and, therefore giving FIL a reason to cut the time short; we also don't know whether or not things were explained to the child before she was asked to get out of the pool. The mother has not said she was there and, based on what she reports happened, I assume she wasn't. We are not told how long the son and his family have been living with his parents; we don't know if it has been years or a few weeks so we cannot assume that the child is unable to recognize that this is her grandparents' home -- even if it is the home she was born in, violent angry outbursts are not something that should be forced on other people. Is it understandable? -- Of course. Should the grandparents have anticipated it? Possibly; we don't really know the full circumstances, nor do we know how often this child chooses to express herself through having fits rather than using a more positive form of communication. Granted, I am assuming that this child is smart enough to know how to behave to get what she wants. Maybe having fits has worked for her in the past, or maybe she has been able to get what she wants by simply demanding or wheedling -- we don't know -- all we have been told is that she chose to express her emotions by having a fit. I do not insult her intelligence by suggesting that she is not capable of choosing to behave well. An intelligent 5 year-old is capable of being polite and gracious -- even an unintelligent 5 year-old can be taught and guided to behave well and make good choices.

I still think the mother ought to apologize for her child behaving badly and then to stress to her ILs that SHE will be responsible for disciplining her child and that the ILs don't need to take on that role.

How old are your children again? You unrealistic advice sounds exactly like that of someone who doesn't actually have older children.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Sorry I forgot to check back on this thread. I normally check my posts through the search function and I forgot about it until today. We had a family meeting that night and we all sat down and said our parts. They have agreed not to use physical discipline again but they wanted to know which discipline rights they are allowed to have because they are alone with the children frequently. We've told them we are perfectly comfortable with sending the children to their room for time out or with removing a privilige directly linked to the offense. In the situation above the children were not misbehaving in the pool, FIL just didn't mention to the kids he was going out in 20 minutes. My daughter is disciplined for tantrums and such and I find the posts from those insinuating otherwise insulting. Nothing in my OP would lead you to believe that. Yes she is 5 and should be able to control her emotions better but she does have some emotional issues (post-traumatic stress) and the in-laws do know this. Anyways things have been okay since then and my in-laws are now away on vacation until July 19 so we have the house (and the pool) to ourselves which is nice.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

shawna, i would be very upset if someone hit my child. you have every right to be angry. the fact that you were home makes it even more unacceptable imo, as i believe no one should discipline my kids if i am there. if an issue arises & i'm in another room, they can just come to me and let me know what happened...i can and will handle it. ykwim? i am the parent.

how has it been since the incident? did your dh talk to your in-laws? did anything get resolved?

oh - we cross-posted. i just read your answer. i'm glad things are somewhat resolved.


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## paphia (Jun 22, 2007)

I live with my mil and I don't trust her to be responsible with my children. She has some slight mental and physical issues that makes her, in my opinion, unsafe. She's tried to offer my dd cat poop as food (found it on the floor and thought it was a cookie), spoiled milk she found in the fridge (I only offer dd soymilk but my sis drinks cow's and never finishes it and never clears it out promptly), and just yesterday, burning hot chicken nuggets!







: I have specifically told her she is not to offer any food or drink to my daughter under any circumstances but she doesn't respect my wishes (obviously) since I was standing right next to her yesterday when she was trying to give dd the chicken and I'm telling her No it's too hot and she's still going through the motions.

My solution to this and the fact that I don't think she's gentle enough when handling dd, is that I don't ever EVER leave dd alone with MIL. If she goes downstairs, I don't care if ds just fell asleep in my arms and I'm all settled in on the couch after only 2 hours of sleep the night before, I get up and follow her and supervise all interaction. I'm sure my MIL feels that I am silently hostile towards her but really I could care less. I don't trust her and she continually reinforces that lack of trust by doing things I consider unsafe or flat-out ignoring me when I give her a direct request like "don't give that chicken to dd it's too hot". Luckily my dd, even at 2, is very smart and handed the hot chicken to me before even trying it. And she was smarter than MIL and was not interested in eating poop or sour milk, for those who were wondering.

OP, I am glad you are dealing with your ILs to everyone's satisfaction. If they continue to disappoint you in their choices of action, my only solution is to supervise all interaction or set your house up in such a way that you limit your kids' access to common areas so that you know the kids won't be wandering into their presence without your supervision. That's what I have to do. It really sucks that I live with extended family but I have to act as though I am singly responsible for my kids 100% of the time when dh isn't around, but that is my life right now and it's tiring but better than worrying MIL is going to hurt my kids.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Stinkerbell* 
Is MIL normally a 'spanker"? Meaning, does she believe that YOU should spank your children?

I only ask because she may need help learning other methods and controlling herself in that situation. It's absolutely IMPERATIVE that she not hit your children (especially knowing it is not okay with you!!) but that doesn't mean it will come easy for her.

I am not justifying MIL's actions in anyway at all...I probably would have lost my mind if I were you! But I'm saying if you know this is likely to be a problem in the future, you might have to help her find a better method.

I dont know your situation but I am always quick to consider that a grandparent's role in their grandchildren's lives should be preserved if possible.









Great advice.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Sorry I forgot to check back on this thread. I normally check my posts through the search function and I forgot about it until today. We had a family meeting that night and we all sat down and said our parts. They have agreed not to use physical discipline again but they wanted to know which discipline rights they are allowed to have because they are alone with the children frequently. We've told them we are perfectly comfortable with sending the children to their room for time out or with removing a privilige directly linked to the offense. In the situation above the children were not misbehaving in the pool, FIL just didn't mention to the kids he was going out in 20 minutes. My daughter is disciplined for tantrums and such and I find the posts from those insinuating otherwise insulting. Nothing in my OP would lead you to believe that. Yes she is 5 and should be able to control her emotions better but she does have some emotional issues (post-traumatic stress) and the in-laws do know this. Anyways things have been okay since then and my in-laws are now away on vacation until July 19 so we have the house (and the pool) to ourselves which is nice.









Sounds like you did a wonderful job handling things.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
They aren't providing any service and they sure as hell aren't "raising" my children. My DH and I are raising our children but we do live with my in-laws so yes, they do have more contact with the children than the average grandparents. When the incident happened I was in our apartment (the basement) doing some work while my youngest napped. Pardon me for not being with my kids every single solitary second of their lives!









We live in a multi-generaltional home right now as well.

There is myself, dh, our 4 children, cat, dog, another dog (my sis dog I grew up with), my mom, my dad (whom are divorced), my sister, and my brother...both adults.

My children are around family a TON! Right now the boys are taking a bath. My mom is watching them. My dd is watching TV in my sis room and the littlest is with daddy playing guitar hero.









I guess that means I am letting others raise my babies too!


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## Kathryn B (Jan 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
How old are your children again? You unrealistic advice sounds exactly like that of someone who doesn't actually have older children.

My children are 16, 15, 12 and 4. I also have cared for several nieces and nephews as they have been various ages as well. Based on experience, I do not think my advice is unrealistic at all, but I can understand why you might think so.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

Do other people's children, when in a state as described in the op (naked, screaming, slamming doors-type fit) actually go to their room when sent? Because, when my dd is that out of control, she needs physical "help" going to her room. I would not want anyone other than her father or me doing that, though, because it is hands-on and involves some physical forcefulness.
My seven year old has no trouble going to his room when sent. My four year old does need to be led or carried there. Anyone who I trust enough to let babysit, I would be ok with them escorting a misbehaving child to their room.


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