# Yep, we're still here~Nov/Dec '02 mommas&babies~



## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Here's our new thread. Ahhh, all fresh and new.

What is *your* little 19-20 month old doin these days? My DD is adjusting to having a baby sister taking mommy and the meemee. She is a good big sister though, and trys to help in her own little ways.

Very cute times.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

I'm here! Yay!









Owen is talking up a storm. Climbing, throwing, anything physical--he certainly will be an avid sportsman of some sort. This age is just too darned fun!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

aack! i didn't get a new notification and here you are.

my ruby is everything i always wanted in a child. she is like a mini me. that may sound terrible in ways but i assure you she is her own strong personality and i'm not in any danger of dominating my children, more likely the opposite. we just understand each other so well. and i don't know how much of that is the girl thing. for awhile i thought wow, i need more girls in my life and i need to make more and today i was wondering if any girl could compare. (of course they would be wonderful, but ruby is just so darned sweet). i completely relish her presence, even though she already shows her hen qualities and gets into everything. yesterday i got out of bed and she was brandishing a butter knife and my couch was painted with a block of cream cheese. a new bag of bagels was broken into pieces decorating it as well.
i know it is my own fault for not being able to get up. reed has been waking before dawn and rousing the others. it is some kind of blessing that they can even be alone and that i can sleep in but it does not feel good and then we are out of sync. but it's been almost six years that reed has been kicking me in the head and yabbering for me to get up and he finally quit it about a month ago. so i'm a little shocked when i get up now, that they are busy and helping each other and safe.

she wants to pee with the guys and leans in standing. she can aim somewhat. she's also been showing her clitoris to us, triumphantly i might add. the other day she was pressing a piece of neon colored playdoh on her vulva and i had to laugh quietly.


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## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

Okay, I don't want to make the same mistake as last time and forget to post on the new thread!

Scarlett is into a lot of 'I can do it myself stuff' lately. She wants to get her own water and shut the door etc... She has also been screeching lately either for fun or frustration. I really didn't think she could match Revina's ear piercing screams, but she can.







She is also putting together small sentences and knows how to use I and me correctly. And to every response "why, why, why"!

Tonight Revina was with their dad for awhile and it was just me and Scarlett. Those times are few and far between. I put on some Dead and she just laid her head on my shoulder and we danced and danced. So lovely







To quote Jerry... "I love you more than words can tell..."


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Good morning!

My EliBean is really doing amazingly well. I feel horrible these days, because my temper is so short with him sometimes (I'm still having hormone fluctuations) but he's such a sweet boy. His favorite thing to do is climb; he likes to get to things that we have tried to put out of reach. He's actually very good at it, and likes to talk about it afterwards. He also loves to pour.

Eli is also getting used to his sister. He likes to nurse with her, and often helps burp her. He tries to help her sleep which is very sweet but kinda scary, so I have to watch him like a hawk when she's sleeping. See, Eli likes to sleep with something heavy and light-blocking near him. At night, it's dadda or mamma, but during the day it's a pillow. If I put Rivkah down to sleep, Eli tries to put a pillow on top of her!







I know it's an act of love, but it can be scary. I have learned that the point of a pack-n-play is to protect babies from their loving older siblings.

Every morning, Eli wakes up, uses the potty, and kisses his sister; sometimes he kisses me too but more often than not he says "I just have kisses for SisterBaby," :LOL It's really very sweet.







I think he's really enjoying being an older brother, except for when it means he has to be patient and wait for something from me. (This usually comes up when he's very tired.)


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

mamas, thinking of you all


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

What can I say about Christopher? Well he has been a downright grump lately. I don't blame him though. I would too if I was cutting 3 eye teeth at the same time. I am suspecting that some 2 year old molars are showing too. He is quite the climber these days. He loves climbing on swing sets but he is afraid to go down the slide. He is picking up more and more words every day and starting to put two words together to get his point across. Nowadays I am hearing "all done", "all gone", and "more milk". I am trying to sign more with him since he is interested in learning the sign for the word. On Aug 16th he will start attending a Mom's Morning Out/preschool program. It will be nice to have some time to myself before David shows up but at the same time I am going to miss him.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Right now little Mukti is covered with chicken pox and is with baba having some berries. Oh he's so beautiful. The illness is softening us all. He looks up at me with his deeply blue eyes, big cheeks, soft curls and generous mouth all drooly and covered in big red spots and he smiles with his whole body and I think, oh how can one little being be so beautiful. Yesterday we spent the day comfort nursing and at one point he looked up and said, 'bess you mama'














That he can be and feel so magnanimous in the midst of his itchy misery awes me. Last night we spent a good part of it simply nursing and singing quietly. Today the hours continue to unfold their story.

Thanks Mona for the







s


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

i wondered where you guys went. I posted this in GD but Haven't had any responses I hope you momma's can help me.

I need your help GD momma's and dad's! My dd is 18 months old. She co-sleeps, is still nursing (although we did night wean about 2 months ago) slings occasionally (lots before she became mobile). I am at my whits end right now. She is very agressive with other kids. She goes to a family day care 3 days a week and she is mostly fine there. Doesn't share but that is the age I guess. Anyway our DC provider doesn't have this problem with her except in rare instances. We have a playgroup with about 10 kids that we have been with since they were all about 2 months old. They range in age from about 17-20 months. I have a very hard time at this group b/c I have to watch her like a hawk. She grabs kids faces, pushes and hits. I don't know what to do expect stop going but I would like to correct this not just avoid the situation. (plus I really like these moms and kids) I notice at home she hits and bites us when she get's to excited so that may be the case here as well. This is particularly hard b/c there is only one other AP mom in the group and all except me are home full time with their kids. They suggest time outs etc and I am not sure I want to go that route. I hope there are some other ways.......Any suggestions?

Otherwise we are doing great..... getting ready for the convention next week (we live in boston less than a mile from the fleet center)

Amy


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

amy, i'm sorry i don't have any advice for you.









eli is purple spotted right now; he opened a bottle of gentian violet and started to paint.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:

he smiles with his whole body and I think, oh how can one little being be so beautiful.
Rose--this is how I look at Owen as well. (although I feel sadness in a way because I don't look at my 8 1/2 yo like that anymore and I should...I mean, he IS beautiful and he IS full of wonder and amazement but in a different way than Owen is right now) Owen is going through a phase of empathy and appreciation. We'll be sitting and reading and he will gaze up at me and kiss me and hug me like he's saying "thanks mom". It makes me melt. He also hugs/kisses one of us if we've been hurt. It's just so awesome.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eilonwy*
eli is purple spotted right now; he opened a bottle of gentian violet and started to paint.









Whoops! :LOL Can you take a picture?


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

:LOL You know, I think I will take a picture. I won't be able to post it until the weekend, though. :LOL


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brayg*
Owen is going through a phase of empathy and appreciation. We'll be sitting and reading and he will gaze up at me and kiss me and hug me like he's saying "thanks mom".


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abranger*
They suggest time outs etc and I am not sure I want to go that route. I hope there are some other ways.......Any suggestions?

i think that our dcs are too little to "get" time outs. especially for this kinda thing. impulse control is just so hard with this age. I think even if she knew what she were doing she'd have a hard time with telling herself to stop (does that make sense?).

smaller playdates? that'd be less sharing mama, fewer kiddos and easier for you to interject.

erin is a dream these days. We are just back from lake superior (1.5 miles from home). She was walking on the beach and then we put her feet in and she was screaming "i do it". She thinks she can swim. This can be problematic but fun.

Um she's also a talking machine.I'm loving it all except....she's nursing like a newborn. What's the deal? she had me used to 2-3 times per day and now we're looking at 8-10 times per day. Sigh. Developmental milestones come with the need for nursing right?


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

eli is also nursing like a newborn; in fact, he's doing it right now! :LOL i'm not sure if it's the age or the personality or the fact that he's got a new sister; with eli, i suspsect it's some combination of the three. what i do know is that around 10 months, when most other children were cutting back, eli still nursed like he was just getting started. when i lost my milk during the pregnancy, eli was still getting at least 70% of his calories from breastmilk.

which leads me to a question: is it reasonable for a child this age to live on breastmilk alone? i have a hard time getting eli to eat any but his favorite foods (fish, yogurt, and pediasure) and even when he will eat them, it's in very small quantities-- it's like he's saving room in his belly for the nursies. i'm fairly certain that if i didn't bother going through the agony of offering him food, he'd happily nurse all day long. i wouldn't even ask, except that it seems like he's losing some of the nice pediasure weight that he gained, and eli's never been a big guy. he was nearly 25 pounds and 33 inches tall, but I think he may have gotten taller and lost a little weight, because I can see his little ribs again.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i have no helpful advice for the queries. my 3.5 lives almost completely on breastmilk. my kids hit - ruby too. it helps when they can talk more about what they want. prevention and intervention can help make an aggressive person into an assertive person. i just comfort myself that they won't be stepped on as adults and will have less psychological or physical problems since they can let it out.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

casina... I'm assuming that you've been tandem nursing since Ruby was born? How was it for you when you first started? I'm so paranoid that my NB is getting enough, even though I have plenty of milk. I just wonder about the nutrient quantaties. Haeven would nurse like the NB if I let her.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Jas, I worried about that at first too.. for about five minutes, before I realized that Rivkah is gaining weight much faster than Eli did. I think Eli's incessant nursing has actually been very good for her; she's never had to work hard to get milk, it's always right there for her because Eli does all the hard work of bringing more milk in (he's much more efficient at it than she is). Rivkah can just sit back, relax, and drink, stopping whenever she feels like it. I don't have to worry about her not "emptying" a breast, because Eli will nurse on the side she was on after she's finished. It's almost like Eli's playing "clean up." :LOL


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

yep, that beautifully sums it up! i also have designated each of them a certain breast and it stuck after awhile, about a month in? occasionally they will try the other one. but the breasts seem to accomodate them and now they prefer their side. clay's did seem richer at some point when i did check but now they are at about the same amount. i did the left and right thing actually more for the ease of slinging one side and just so that my arms knew where to go everytime. i also started something awhile back which was calling their set sleeping and my favorite position "first position" i got tired of tweaking at clay everytime how to lay. i often have to tickle and nudge them some and stand up if they are getting crazy, but when i tell them to get in first position generally they get right to it.. i just wish i had thought of a cleverer or sweeter name at the time.

i remember wondering about the nutritive qualities and realized that if anything, my milk was richer because of the older baby. my babies also get fat so fast and eat all the time and i have plenty of output to tend to to prove to me that they are fine....on the other side, i've finally lost alot of weight with tandem nursing for some reason. of course i'm mostly glad i'm skinnier. i have eaten all i want, all the richest stuff and then some for years now. it seems i cannot stop eating in general nursing two. i mean now that i'm not twice this size i know that these two are easily taking 1000 calories a day.

i also seem to recall that for my kids that the change in growth is the least from this age to three. just getting a little longer.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

How are the pox, solsticemama? We were lucky that our little ones got a very mild case, and it's over and done with now. Hope little Mukti isn't eetchin anymore







. I loved what you said about our babies being so incredibly beautiful. It is so amazing to me- looking at the beauty in my son. An absolute miracle, to say the least.

We're back from vacation. The kids seem happy to be home, back in their own comfortable environment. They've been busy getting into things, checking out their boundaries again. I'm glad to be back home, however hot it is here :LOL. Supposedly it was 116 yesterday!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Thanks for asking DecemberSun. The chicken pox wave seems to have crested yesterday after about 5 days of misery for ds. He's still in the contagious phase tho until about Sunday which is ironic 'cause this is when it's really starting to look dramatic--red, blotchy and crusty. He didn't get a mild case, that's for sure. Those spots are everywhere--tongue, ears, head, bum etc--but his spirit is strong and shining thruout. Which one of yours got it and when did they have it?

My SIL is due any day now and she's asked me to be at the birth. It'll be my first since ds was born. I was so wonderfully supported during my labor and birth I'm hoping to return the favor. Hopefully I'll be able to make it. Her family is known for super fast labors so we'll see.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Poor little guy! That sounds a lot like the case I had when I was 5. I had pox EVERYWHERE, and they seemed to last forever. I even got a little scar from one on my nose!

All three kids got the chicken pox a few months ago. Crystal was exposed at school, and brought them home (even though she had been vaccinated years ago). Julianna actually got sick first- but we thought she just had bug bites form the lake. She had a few pox on her legs and back, had a fever for a day, and was done. Zach had one red mark on his face, had a fever for a day, and was done. Crystal had them all over her face, but nowhere else, and was down and out for about 3 days- fever, sleepy, just not feeling well. Maybe we just happened to get a mild strain- but I hope they did get enough of an immunity to fend off the varicella virus. Maybe some kids just react more severely to it? I sure hope your boy feels better soon, Rose... That's no fun!


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Hi all









My secound dd is Ursula and was born December 22nd, 2002.

I tandem nursed for a little while. My oldest is almost 4 yrs older and nursed throughout my pregnancy. I actually weaned her a couple months after she turned four years old, when Ursula was about 4 mths old. I'd let Ursula nurse first.

Nowadays, she still nurses quite a bit. She still wakes up quite often at night to nurse.

She also hits, bites, pulls hair, and pinches (mostly done her older sister) and has regular tandrums and also that ear-piercing screech that she has recently discovered.... I really think its because she's not as vocal as others her age. My oldest spoke at a very early age and I never really had these problems with her. I really do feel its because of not being able to communicate her needs as effeciently as she'd like to.

She is just now trying to really talk and imitate our speech. I find that those 'problems' mentioned above are getting rarer with her ability to communicate, whether with words or with actions.

I've also said that her personality is one of a strong-minded woman that won't let anyone get in her way and that she'll know what she wants and will do or get it.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Welcome to the clan, alibuff! I think your DD shares a Birth Day with solsticemama's DS, am I right? The little winter solstice babies...

I forgot to tell you all- my doggie







: Luna had 5 puppies yesterday morning! They're beautiful, but it's something else watching her nurse 5 babes at once! But, I guess that's why God gave her 6 nipples, :LOL. We have to be really careful with Zachary because he likes to squeeze them!!! I have to tell him "No touching, kisses only" and then he kisses their heads







.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*







Welcome to the clan, alibuff! I think your DD shares a Birth Day with solsticemama's DS, am I right? The little winter solstice babies...

Actually my ds was born a day earlier with the turning of the light.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*

I forgot to tell you all- my doggie







: Luna had 5 puppies yesterday morning! They're beautiful, but it's something else watching her nurse 5 babes at once!

Kind of puts things perspective doesn't it :LOL

DecemberSun scarring is something I"m a bit concerned about with ds since there are so many spots on his face. Do you remember your mom doing anything special to prevent that?

Welcome alibuff


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*







Welcome to the clan, alibuff! I think your DD shares a Birth Day with solsticemama's DS, am I right? The little winter solstice babies...

Thanks for the welcome









Ursula was due on Christmas Eve







But, she decided to come out quickly... I had very hard labor and delivery with her... I mean, I did it all naturally in a birthing tub with a CNM, but, she came so quickly that it was very painful for a very short amount of time... good thing... LOL If she would have waited one more day to be born, she would have had been born at home... there's no way I would have been able to wait for her dad to get home from work and then go to the hospital... I've always wanted a homebirth; esp. a UC... its my girls' dad that was leary about that... I think he might have changed a good bit since then... esp. since out of my 9 nieces and nephews, only one has been born in the hospital and 3 of those homebirths have been UC with another one planned for September '04.

Congradulations with the puppies! That's always fun! I grew up with lots of cats and lots of kitties







I've been watching homebirths and nursing since I was a young girl







It was funny to see the different personalities of them all... some momma cats were better than others... some weaned their babies early, some let their babies nurse until they were practically adult cats! hehe What was really cool to me even now was how when we'd have a few momma cats give birth around the same time and nurse all the kittens, whether they were theirs or not







The kittens just LOVED that! hehehe

We have 2 kittens here and Ursula just LOVES to kiss and hold them... ummm... she also licks them







She'll usually go get one of them, say, "hey, hey, hey" to their face, lick them, and then hand them to me. So, I end up holding a slightly wet kitty... LOL

Sorry... I can be quite chatty... LOL


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**

Welcome alibuff

Thanks for the welcome, Solsticemama









Vitamin E is excellent for the skin... internally and externally. Ursula will actually eat the Vit E gel capsules! lol

Aloe Vera is also good for skin.

Olive Oil too.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

solsticemame- I think the only reason I got the scar was because it was a HUGE pock in the midle of my nose that lasted FFOREVER. It was made worse by the fact that it was summertime and I went swimming, so the scab/crust kept coming off, and coming back, and the sun was getting in there. Now it looks like a small petichia (sp?), which is a small red pinprick-looking thing right in the center of my nose. I hate it, but dH says no one can tell it's there...

We're getting a cat soon to help out with the mouse problem. I hopw dh doesn't sqeuueez the little kitten!

sorry for the typos, nak


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*
I hopw dh doesn't sqeuueez the little kitten!

sorry for the typos, nak

I meant DS, :LOL


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

welcome ursula and mom! She is so cute. Reminds me somewhat of my DD.

Comfrey is good for scar prevention and healing.

That's interesting about some cats weaning early, and some going till the kittens were full grown. My cat had 4 kittens (one of which is my special cat in my picture link) And when they were 6 weeks old, I took my kitty on a adventure all the way on the bus from south B.C. to the Yukon, where my dad lived. A few weeks later the momma cat and Ruby (my special cat) were reunited, and ruby went right back to nursing, after the initial "who are you, growl, hiss"... By that time Ruby was almost the same size as her mom, but she let her nurse.


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Thanks for the welcome, Mamajaza









I looked at a few of your pics and love the tandem one







So sweet!

And, how neat about your kitty returning to nurse!


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## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

hi alibuff!

Where's lilyka??


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilmiss'mama*







hi alibuff!


Hiya Lilmiss'mama!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

rose essential oil is the ultimate skin healer. can be diluted with vitamin e if you like.
attending a birth is such an exciting prospect. since reed was born i really thought about getting into practical midwifing when the kids are a little older but ever since i decided that unassisted is the way to go (though i haven't had one) i have let that idea go aside. along with the fact that i have never attended a birth yet, except a c-section. i don't count mine. watching and doing seems really different to me.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

so i've been madly decluttering lately, in fact feel i'm in a hurry to do some more since the garbage comes tomorrow. so today i started on the bathroom. it totally befuddled me. hair products and ornaments, combs and brushes. makeup and cleansers. OTCs. jewelry. pantyhose. perfumes. sunscreen. nail polish. i couldn't even throw it all out since i do put on war paint about twice a year. i dunno what's weirder, that i have hung onto this stuff for five years or that i have changed so much. or is it just that i don't have to look good for a job?


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Hi alibuff! Welcome! Your dds are absolutely gorgeous! Loved the pics.
















to you Rose! Hope the pox are over soon. I wish Owen would contract them soon so we are over them before he gets older. What do you do if your child hasn't gotten them by the time they have gotten older? Jacob had 'em when he was a year old, so it was never an issue for me.


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brayg*







Hi alibuff! Welcome! Your dds are absolutely gorgeous! Loved the pics.









Thanks for the welcome and compliments, Brayg!
Just love meeting other like-minded moms from Louisiana


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
so i've been madly decluttering lately, in fact feel i'm in a hurry to do some more since the garbage comes tomorrow. so today i started on the bathroom. it totally befuddled me. hair products and ornaments, combs and brushes. makeup and cleansers. OTCs. jewelry. pantyhose. perfumes. sunscreen. nail polish. i couldn't even throw it all out since i do put on war paint about twice a year. i dunno what's weirder, that i have hung onto this stuff for five years or that i have changed so much. or is it just that i don't have to look good for a job?

Casina, if I was you I'd toss the makeup. Most makeup products are only "good" for less than a year. They start to smell funny, collect bacteria.. it's just not a great scene.







I understand how you feel about it, but take my word for it: when you go to put on some 5-year-old foundation and it smells a lot stronger than you remember it and makes you feel kind of itchy and doesn't even do what it's supposed to do and you've only got an hour to be somewhere, you'll wonder why you didn't just buy new stuff in the first place. You can always buy little samples if you're not going to be wearing it very often.


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
so i've been madly decluttering lately,

I totally understand! lol
I want to move out of this house just to have an excuse to get rid of everything! lol I've been also trying to declutter... but, its hard because I think, 'what if I'll need this in the near future; if I get rid of it now, then I'll have to buy it again...' lol
I'm gonna be buying some storage boxes and shelves soon and I think that'll help me stay organized








Oh and concerning make-up... yeah, I'm like you... barely ever wear it. And you're supposed to throw most of your make-up away by at least 3 yrs... and with masscara, I believe you're supposed to only have it for like 3 mths... lol Which is funny to me since I might use it once in 3 mths... But, if I want Jeremy, my S.O., to be happy with me or something to that effect, I'll put on make-up... LOL Men are easy, huh? lol

Good luck on decluttering!


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eilonwy*
Casina, if I was you I'd toss the makeup. Most makeup products are only "good" for less than a year.

Yeah, I couldn't remember the exact timeline... I think that the powered stuff can last 3 yrs... but, I could be wrong about that.... I definitely know what you're talking about concerning foundation being stinky! And, good suggestion about buying the trial/sample sizes







That's what I've done too









I even have some older moisterizer that burned my eyes when I put it on... don't use that anymore... LOL


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

If it's never been opened, the powdered stuff is usually okay for a long time, but if it has been opened and used (especially if you used the brush, applied makeup, then put the brush back into the makeup) then you've introduced bacteria into the system. This, by the way, is why you're supposed to use things like cotton balls and q-tips to apply your makeup.







. Goodness, I know a lot of strange things! :LOL

I inventoried the gentian violet damage that Eli did. Not only did he ruin *three* of Rivkah's outfits, two of which she's never even worn, but he got gv on _her birth sampler_. That's hours of work which I'm now going to have to *pray* is salvagable. I didn't see any on the stitches themselves, but there was definately some on the fabric. I am so angry!!!! The clothing (which of course we can't afford to replace, as they were gifts) is one thing, and it sucks and makes me very upset, but the birth sampler....AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHH!! I don't have any fabric to replace it, even if I did have the time and energy to sew the whole thing again. Things like this make me seriously reconsider setting up a crib. I still don't know how he got to the stuff, he'd have had to climb very high to get to it on his own.














:














:












































Baby's crying, gtg.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Thanks for the







s brayg. Ds is feeling better and better each day tho the pox are looking more pronounced as they begin to dry up. Children are ok to get the cp up till about 12 then after that it's a question.

What's a birth sampler?


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

of course you are right about the makeup. actually most of it is clinique and hasn't done much. but i'm really just hanging on to my past before my husband. i already got rid of all the clothes when i doubled in weight with reed. i lost all the photos when we flooded. my dh doesn't talk about my past. and there isn't much to be necessarily proud of, it's just a part of me that i have put attachment in the things from that time. my parents grew up in a war, both our folks dealt with being poor, and now we're poor and hoard and i have that creative excuse of making things out of junk. so i have a lot of work emotionally and physically to do. we do not want to be these kind of people but it is ingrained.

rynna, i'm sorry about the gentian violet. i would not be able to trust my almost 6 with it. it has magnificent staining properties. in fact i don't feel comfortable with my dh handling it since i do the cleaning. one time he was treating a fungus on his foot and he left the bottle easy to grab with the kids and with a ring of purple on the counter top. the stain is gone though, after time. i have even dyed a wall hanging with it. if i were you i would give up on the clothes and get new ones no matter the cost if they still make you mad to see them after three weeks. if not, maybe dye them with the gentian violet. my bottle is up high hiding behind cabinet doors usually latched.
i think you are going through a time i am familiar with. i think it is more pronounced now that your worries about rivkah are easing a little. i remember mourning how things used to be and i could not keep tabs on my one child all the time, and missed sharing in his life in an all encompassing way. the change from one to two is really hard. it helped me alot to read some of the continuum concept and after applying some of it realize he was happier not being child-centered anyway. and that life and work are hard but valuable to us as humans. that i can complain or just be happy and do the same work. and to let go of control, that is the big thing i had to learn when i suddenly had two kids. life is really messy and that's much better than not.
learning to carry and nurse in the sling is what saved me. if you can measure the distance from your shoulder bone to your hip bone across the front i'll see if i have any adjustable slings that fit you.
having two kids is a rich life. hopefully the birth sampler will turn out fine and any purple peeking out is to show how she is lucky to have a wonderful brother.

still thinking about y'all, pox and keeping one's head up in arizona and all. there's a lot going on these days. i have a friend and my sister moving, and a friend just told me she is getting married.

alibuff, i just noticed you're from opelousas. welcome!

much love, casina


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## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

does anyone freecycle? since some are trying to declutter I thought I'd suggest it. Go to freecycle.org and see if there is one in your town. It is just a big group of people giving stuff away to others. Everything is free; you just have to pick it up. You can post offers or wanteds and things can even be broken as some people just need parts. Then you don't have to haul to a dump. One mans trash is another mans treasure!


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

decluttering...ya'll have inspired me to get rid of all but one lipstick. i don't really wear makeup daily and even when i get dressed up i only wear lipstick. i wore lipstick in my wedding and that was basically it.

purple staining....hmmm. does sunning stuff work for g. violet? i'm on a thrifty bit right now and have started hanging at least one load of wash out to dry a week. I was amazed at how much cleaner my dds shirts looked (dcp doesn't do bibs and honestly i don't REALLY care).

will post more later. gotta run right now.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

welcome to the group, alibuff









someone mentioned lilyka, i've been wondering about her too.

we just had a massive influx of out of town company for the last two weeks... all i can say is yikes. i think we learned a lot from it. mostly that we three are all introverts and love our own space. dd is incredibly "shy" (i hate that word) which i totally understand and feel like it is a good thing but the rest of the world insists upon shaming her for it and forcing themselves upon her









now that they are all gone, save for her Nana (my mil) she is finally moving forward again after some regression.

anyhow, i've been thinking so much about the mamas in this group, much







to you all!

we have one more week here and then we are all going to Calif. for one week - I am so torn between being excited (ive never been to Calif!!) and being weary - more strangers, airplane, etc.

that's life, right? :LOL


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Yeah, I've been wondering about lilyka, too. I think I'll pm her to see how she is...

Rynna, I can totally understand your frustrations about the birth sampler- all that time and hard work, imagining how the finished product would look. But I think the stains make it that much more special- now you can always remember that bleary-eyed time when you were still adjusting to life with little sister Rivka, and attention-craving big brother Eli tried to "help" apply some gentian violet to everything in site... I think it's cute!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Casina, when I say we can't afford to replace the clothes, what I'm really saying is we have *no* money. I actually borrowed money from my mother this month to grocery shop and buy diapers and put gas in the car, as well as finish up a few paypal payments (which, naturally, I was late on). Our phone was turned off yesterday; I'm at the IL's now, but I won't be online again probably until Monday afternoon at the earliest. We are dirt poor for a while. It's a really bad time for it, because at Penney's they have all these toddler boy things on clearance and I *know* what size/s Eli will be next summer and everything's super cheap. We'll still have to buy him the shorts and t-shirts, only we're going to end up doing it next year when it costs twice as much.







I got off easy this year, because he could still wear most of his clothing from last year; next year that won't work (can you imagine a 2.5 year old in size 6-9 month shorts? He's small, but he's not that small!) They've got a few toddler girl things on sale, but I can't be positive about Rivkah's growth pattern yet so it's not reasonable to buy stuff for her for next year.

Solsticemamma: a birth sampler, in this instance, is counted cross-stitch project with the baby's name, time & date of birth, and birth weight & length. I made one for Eli (it should be in the New Pictures link; the one picture that doesn't have people in it) while I was pregnant with him and finished it while he was in NICU. Rivkah's is still not finished, as this time around I was busy chasing EliBean, but it is mostly completed. It's different from Eli's, but it's about the same size (15 X 11 or so). I took a good look at it, and it appears that the gv didn't go all the way through the fabric. That might change when I wash it, but I will be extra careful; it may just show through as a slightly dark spot. I don't think that I'll remember it as a cute toddler moment (I'm still way too angry for that) but maybe in a few years, I won't get angry every time I look at it. It just feels so unfair to me that Rivkah's sampler isn't as perfect as Eli's.







It really makes me angry, I hate it when second children get short changed. I worked so hard to make sure I had the same fabric (ivory 28 count evenweave linen) and the same size and the same degree of difficulty... *sigh* Rivkah deserves just as nice a sampler as Eli.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Rynna!

Are you using cloth diapers? If you aren't, do you want to? I could maybe help you out in that department if you want.

I wouldn't worry about getting clothes for Eli till you really need them. Who knows what could happen between now and then. Sure, they are on clearance, but I've never seen a clearance quite as good as a thrift shop or a yard sale. If you are in serious need of clothing right now, LMK. My mom and I ran a thrift shop that is closed right now (I quit in January--my mom ran it until about a month ago. She's closed for the summer and plans on maybe opening up in the fall) but my parents own the building and everything is just still in there. I can see what we have that you may need and send it to you. Otherwise, I can always sew you up some things you may need as well. Another







for you!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)




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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Today was our first real day of being able to be out and about in a week







. I didn't realize how much I rely on going to the health food store and park for adult interaction even if it's unspoken interaction until I had to spend the week without any of it.

Punk whereabouts in CA are you going? Is this your first airplane trip with your dd?

Mona how are things?


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## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

Rynna-- that is a nice birth sampler you made for Eli! So much detail. My mom made one for each of my girls but i didn't know that is what you called them. It is a nice keepsake.

Well, Scarlett and I have been spending time just the 2 of us lately. Revina has chosen to spend time with her dad; which is good, but a little sad for me. It is interesting though to watch Scarlett on her own and see what she chooses to do instead of being guided by Revina. She walks around though saying "reeni, reeni?" And I forgot how easy 1 is! And so much easier on the ears... no screeching or fighting. And my mood is even better, b/c I am not a referee all day.

Which part of CA is it punkprincess? I have lived in each part, South, Middle and North. Most of CA I really enjoy, so I hope you have a good time. A plane ride with a toddler can be a bit challanging though. Will your dd have her own seat? It is easier when they do; I think. B/c then you can bring a carseat for them to sit in and it is more remenicent of a car ride. Plenty of snacks and toys too!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Well, lucky me! We have a telephone again. It was only one day this time.

Brayg: we are indeed using cloth diapers, but because Rivkah's behind is only now able to fit into a small, for the past few weeks we've been using a lot of icky sposies, waiting for her to grow. Even now, some of the smalls are still too big. Plus, we keep running out of diapers.. it's a pain in the neck. I'm really looking forward to her pooping less. (Any day now, BooBah!







)

I actually have seen clearance sales with prices as good as garage sales or better. Last March, I spent about $40 on winter clothing for Eli and got everything he needed for super cheap. If I had $50 to spend on clothing right now, I could have Eli completely covered for next summer in decent clothing. He's not naked right now, but next summer he will be. This summer, he's only barefoot. :LOL

How many of us have children after our Nov/Dec 02 babes?


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*

alibuff, i just noticed you're from opelousas. welcome!

much love, casina

Hi Casina








Yes, we live in Opelousas









I believe I saw you on the Louisiana/Mississippi/Arkansas tribe, right? I've posted there.

I totally understand your whole post above... wanting to cling to things due to financial reasons. My S.O. JUST now has a good job. He got his second check this past Friday from it. Prior to that, we've been barely making ends meet for the past 7 yrs. For like 9 mths or so, out of one year, we had $20 a week after bills were paid... $20 to spend on food and other things we needed. Talk about learning how to live very frugally. And stress from that alone can break a family apart. Esp. since I haven't worked since my oldest was born.
Anyways, I have clothes from when I was in highschool still... ladies, I'm 31 yrs old! lol The main clothes I have to wear are from Jeremy's (S.O.) sister from when she was in high school; she gave them to me because she had gained weight and couldn't fit them anymore. She's 24 this year. I can't wait to update my wardrobe! I'm keeping some key items; you know, favorites.... getting rid of the rest (actually got rid of 7 lawn bags of clothes a couple years ago!).
And, man... that is so terrible you lost your pictures! I am so into my pictures... I take pics almost daily and constantly worry that something might happen to them. When we're under hurricane watch or warning, they are the first material possessions I think about!

Anyways, thanks for the welcome and perhaps one of these days we can get together for a visit! I always enjoy meeting others that are somewhat like me! lol You know what I mean, in this mainstream world we live in.


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilmiss'mama*
does anyone freecycle?

Cool! I think I might have seen that site a while back when one of my sisters sent it to me... but, wow, I was surprised there's some in Louisiana!


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kerc*
purple staining....hmmm. does sunning stuff work for g. violet? i'm on a thrifty bit right now and have started hanging at least one load of wash out to dry a week. I was amazed at how much cleaner my dds shirts looked.

I LOVE hanging out my clothes! You're so right about clothes looking brighter and whites getting _whiter_ ! lol I have my youngest in cloth diapers and none of them are poo-stained







And I never used bleach on them either.

I hang up as many loads a week as I can out there... its been hard because we had soooo much rain last month! Could never hang out anything last month







Jeremy even made my clothes line poles! He used some steel galvanized posts from when he was working in construction. I love my new clothes line!


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *punkprincessmama*
welcome to the group, alibuff









Thanks for the welcome, punkprincessmama









I soooo kwym about your child's shyness and other's reaction to it! My little one is just now a little more outgoing. And, as much as I didn't like using 'shy', that was prolly the nicest thing I could tell others when they'd come up to her and she'd hide from them in my chest or turn away from them so that they can't see her (in her own head, of course). Sometimes I'd tell them that everyone has their own personal space as do children and that we have to respect that. Eventually, my own dd will warm up to others, but, sometimes that takes months, sometimes just hours. She's actually prolly a good judge of character







lol

Hope you all have a good trip to California







I hope to visit there one day







Of course, I'd like to visit all of our states as well as the world







hehe One of these days...


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

I would love a close line but our Homeowner's Association doesn't allow them. All you ladies remind to never buy a house in an HOA the next time we look at moving. It sucks! We have to pay $360 for the Association. Part of the privilege of living in this neighborhood. And the rules! No sheds allowed! Hello! I need the storage space.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Rynna, what sizes are you looking for for Mr. Bean? I was planning on going through Zachary's stuff anyway. And I'd be happy to hand down some of Julianna's newborn stuff for Rivka. She had so many clothes that most of them were worn once before she grew out of them! I'd send you some prefolds for Rivka's bum, but I'm still using all mine! (They are MUCH cheaper, and easier to fit on newborns, IMO- just trifold them and lay them in a cover.) We run out of diapers constantly- I do a load every other day because we don't have a huge stash. It makes it harder when they get bigger and they pee more! Julianna is a super soaker!!!

Something is up again with my boy- whining and tossing/turning at night, waking more to nurse, attitude during the day. He goes through these cycles where he has a hard time, then he'll go back to normal for awhile, then back again. I think it's teeth. All four eye teeth (are the bottom ones still called eye teeth???) have broken through the skin, but it must be hard for him cause they're taking forever to actually come up! I hope he goes back to "normal" soon- this can't be fun for him! He likes to wake up halfway through his nap to be nursed back to sleep- only he wants to be HELD for the duration of his nap... Not exactly convenient, to say the least, but I do enjoy staring down at his calm little face, watching his eyes twitch and his mouth smile as he dreams... hee hee!


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hjohnson*
I would love a close line but our Homeowner's Association doesn't allow them. All you ladies remind to never buy a house in an HOA the next time we look at moving. It sucks! We have to pay $360 for the Association. Part of the privilege of living in this neighborhood. And the rules! No sheds allowed! Hello! I need the storage space.

Yeah, I hate those neighborhoods that have restrictions like that on them... I mean, they look pretty and all without 'junk' and all.. I mean, they do have good reasons (I guess) for having their rules... but, whenever we do buy land and build on it, it won't be in a subdivision. Hopefully it'll be a good size bit of land without many neighbors... LOL I like my privacy







(we rent right now)

BTW, one of my sisters is due Sept. 6th for her 3rd baby







She's having hers at home (her 3rd homebirth) without a midwife; this will be her 2nd UC







This new baby and her youngest right now will be almost exactly 2 yrs apart! And, unless Olivia weans before Sept. she'll be tandem nursing as well







hehe


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i joined the local freecycle and i'm still lurking but that's why i'm feeling okay with getting rid of stuff.

i can't say much about the money thing either. i'm so out of practice buying clothes for anyone.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
my dh doesn't talk about my past. and there isn't much to be necessarily proud of, it's just a part of me that i have put attachment in the things from that time. my parents grew up in a war, both our folks dealt with being poor, and now we're poor and hoard and i have that creative excuse of making things out of junk. so i have a lot of work emotionally and physically to do. we do not want to be these kind of people but it is ingrained.

Casina, your comments been in my mind-heart for the past few days. There are certain patterns that I am semi-conscious of in my own self that I do not wish to pass on to ds but gosh are they deeply rooted! Some days this is depressing. Other days there is more spaciousness and forgiveness arising. I hear ds using certain words with the exact intonation I do and the thing is the intonation was probably my mom's and her mom's etc. Lineage YK.

The last day or 2 i've been in a state of not wanting what's present and wanting what's not present. This goes nowhere but into a kind of small and penurious breath. So I've been trying to remember to breathe with my whole body. And smiling with no reason and no object. This is an interesting exercise. Ok, feeling a bit woo-woo...

Rynna can you tell us about Rivkah's name?


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

boy, i have missed all you mamas.
we are still at mil's, and will be leaving tomorrow. we've had a pretty good time- dd has been a trooper.. she has LOVED the water down here, and did great at the ocean. she never wanted to leave the beach, although at times all the sand would overload her.
i am on mil's dial up, so i need to go.
just wanted to say hi.








s to all


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## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

Hey Rynna-- I wanted to mention that I believe at some point you had said you were a libra; I am too. Being the scales fairness is very important to us. And I have a hard time too when things aren't *fair*! I have had to let go of this somewhat since having Scarlett otherwise I'd go crazy. Maybe you could entertain the notion of letting some of this go too?


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*
Rynna, what sizes are you looking for for Mr. Bean? I was planning on going through Zachary's stuff anyway. And I'd be happy to hand down some of Julianna's newborn stuff for Rivka. She had so many clothes that most of them were worn once before she grew out of them! I'd send you some prefolds for Rivka's bum, but I'm still using all mine! (They are MUCH cheaper, and easier to fit on newborns, IMO- just trifold them and lay them in a cover.) We run out of diapers constantly- I do a load every other day because we don't have a huge stash. It makes it harder when they get bigger and they pee more! Julianna is a super soaker!!!

:LOL eli is my super soaker-- good grief, tthis boy can pee! lucky for me, he loves flushing the toilet, so we're changing fewer diapers as a result of his fervent desire to potty learn.

eli will be, next summer, an 18-24/2T. he's slender (not skinny atm, thank goodness!) and not terribly tall. i figure by the end of the winter he'll be in 2t's for the length, wearing his tiny belt. :LOL

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
The last day or 2 i've been in a state of not wanting what's present and wanting what's not present. This goes nowhere but into a kind of small and penurious breath. So I've been trying to remember to breathe with my whole body. And smiling with no reason and no object. This is an interesting exercise. Ok, feeling a bit woo-woo...

your 'woo-woo' side reminds me that i should really make time to meditate. it really helps when i can do it.

Rivkah's name-- i'll get back to you. kids are flipping out.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

solsticemama, the great thing is that our kids are forgiving and learn quickly when we work to change things. and fortunately none of us have a perfect intellectual memory. when we are low it is normal to fall into the lifelong habit of reaction, words on the tip of my tongue. i have sure been doing it lately as well. i find it fascinating what we hold in our cells without our intellectual knowledge. and it is wonderful for our children to see we are moody mistake making humans, real people not plastic as long as we do not greatly disrupt their feeling of being loved.

words are really strange. i was reading a post yesterday with mention of a child using the word can't. i didn't realize until that moment that i have actually wiped that word from my vocabulary and that no one in my family uses it. i hear the common whine and cry of "i don't want to" but i'm so glad it is not "i can't do it". i'm really working to get the negative out of life in general.
ruby is starting to really talk, today. she did a little dance and said happy over and over and repeated dozens of words. and she says the word baby with such tenderness and giggliness i just want to fall over. i guess it is a milestone day - reed did the backbend from standing at kung fu today. he can already do a full sidesplit.

rynna, i hope you know that we are really just worried about you and want you to get through this very unique time as well as possible. everytime i read one of your posts i can remember the raw emotions of dealing with such a change. take it one moment at a time. keep your energy for loving yourself and your family and allow the problems figure themselves out. we love you!
i'm a virgo and i've got that fairness meter. i'm not sure where it has ever helped me as a mamma......

alibuff, i do want to meet you one of these days. but i'm not sure about the next few days, at least to invite you. i'm already in a crisis about my home, my body is healing from falling apart, and then there's my private worry about how my kids behave and how it fits with others especially since you have girls. i'm working on it.....


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilmiss'mama*
Hey Rynna-- I wanted to mention that I believe at some point you had said you were a libra; I am too. Being the scales fairness is very important to us. And I have a hard time too when things aren't *fair*! I have had to let go of this somewhat since having Scarlett otherwise I'd go crazy. Maybe you could entertain the notion of letting some of this go too?

I am indeed a libra, and I know my obsession with fairness/balance is a seriously libra thing. In many ways, I am the archtypal libra... from my curly hair on down.







I can entertain the notion of letting things go, but applying it irl is a whole different story. It really throws my whole self out of kilter when things don't balance, it just drives me crazy beyond belief. There are too many other little things which I can't do (like paint the walls-- I despise white walls...) which would make me happy, and since I can't do them I have to focus my energies elsewhere and that means trying extra hard to make things even. I'm probably going to end up doing Rivkah's entire birth sampler again later.
















Rivkah's name is the original, Hebrew form of the name "Rebecca"; if I wanted to be as correct as possible about the spelling, it would be "Ryvqah" but I thought that would be a mean thing to do to her. I was definately right, people can't even seem to pronounce "Rivkah", and I think it's pretty darned intuitive.







Her first name is Sadie, after Mike's grandmother who passed away several years ago (I never met her.) We called her Sadie Rivkah instead of Rivkah Sadie because it flows better the first way and the second way isn't pleasant when combined with our last name. :LOL

Sometimes, I look at Eli and stroke his hair or his cheek and wonder at how I got such a perfect, beautiful child.







Other times, I find myself looking at him and thinking "It's a good thing you're so cute, or...." I rarely finish the thought.







I really love him, I think he's a wonderful child and a fabulous little person, but sometimes he drives me insane! Worst of all, I know that it's often my fault (sort of). For instance, if he got more time to play outside, he'd be a lot more relaxed and less jittery than when he's in the house all day.. but the backyard isn't closed on either end, and he runs out all the time into the alley or the street, and I can't really chase him with Rivkah in the sling much better than I could when I was 7/8/9 months pregnant. So I feel guilty, Eli is miserable because he's been inside all day, and then he starts getting into things which gets me upset which makes Eli more miserable and makes me feel more guilty... It's a vicious cycle!









I'm just really bummed out about a lot of stuff lately. I wondered if it wasn't PPD, but I don't think that's it-- it feels more like a situational depression which is exacerbated by my not-quite-settled hormones. Sometimes I worry that I'm going to scar Eli for life, and I get very upset about that. Here's hoping I'm overreacting.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

sometimes i tell people that's exactly why they are so cute. it is totally anthropological. i do have to be careful about the vicious cycle. i had a friend tell me that i am not responsible for their feelings and i'm still figuring that one out. sometimes i can just snap ruby out of a funk by smiling at her and find it works on everyone else. it only took me five years to really learn that. i have the same problem here about them not going outside since there are too many mosquitoes and the heat adds to it.

knowing you are bummed is the first step in getting better. which i have every faith that you will since you are such a dynamic person.

much love, casina


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hjohnson*
I would love a close line but our Homeowner's Association doesn't allow them. All you ladies remind to never buy a house in an HOA the next time we look at moving. It sucks! We have to pay $360 for the Association. Part of the privilege of living in this neighborhood. And the rules! No sheds allowed! Hello! I need the storage space.

We have a HOA as well (actually ANY new neighborhood these days has one--it's not like you can really get away from them around here) but we only pay $50/year. And as much as I'd love a clothesline (can you get a retractable one? I can do that under my deck) and a storage shed, etc., I've seen neighborhoods without HOAs and they have turned to carp. That and we fully knew about the HOA when we moved here, so we really can't complain about it--we didn't HAVE to move here, kwim? We have so many people in the development that complain about it and it drives me nuts because they knew about it when they moved here. I was on the board for a year and it just amazes me what people will complain about for their $50/year as well.

Sorry for the rant! :LOL


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

That's ok! Rant away. My biggest rant right now is the board is turning into a dictatorship. Being the issue over the sheds. The board promised three times that they would send out a survey about whether the neighbors wanted sheds or not in the neighborhood. Then at the last meeting in July the President said that the board wouldn't be sending the survey out because it isn't in the best interest of the board to do so. (Four out of the five board members don't want sheds.) What about what's the best interest of the neighborhood. The board said that any resident was welcome to walk around the neighborhood with a survey/petition should they desire. I am to the point that if we get sheds great! If not then I will live. What I don't like is how the board is going about this. Also the president claims that the only the board can change the rule and they aren't about to change it! Well according to the bylaws it can be change if 2/3 of the neighbors says to do so.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

hey ladies,

am i the only one looking forward to fall? or at least next month. this summer has been so hard for us so far.









rynna, i really feel for you with the money situation. i've been struggling this whole week -- i am so tired of being broke. im so tired of not being able to stretch things just a little further... we've lost our phone before, it just isn't as important as other things.







i hope things are a little brighter for you soon.

we are going to be in Northern Calif - dh has family in San Rafel (spelling?) and we hope to spend some time in San Francisco. Other than that, I have no clue what is planned, and honestly don't care. I'm looking forward to being away from home for a bit of time, and being able to spend time just the three of us - i figure the "adults" will plan things to do in the evenings and then the three of us can have some family time.

i have so much i would like to share with you all, and am thinking of you quite often. Once we get back from Calif i think (hope!) things settle down. No more visitors!!








(







: i am such a loner!)


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
i find it fascinating what we hold in our cells without our intellectual knowledge. and it is wonderful for our children to see we are moody mistake making humans, real people not plastic as long as we do not greatly disrupt their feeling of being loved.

Yes, cellular intelligence is deep and powerful. I'd like to explore this more but I'm feeling ds coming out of a 3hr nap. He's not awake yet but the intimations of consciousness are right there at the edge of my psyche so I'll have to save it for later. Casina, your kids have a generous and sage mom.

*MamaJ* everything ok?


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Our bylaws don't have any clause for changing it. People in our neighborhood thought that we could just vote to change it. We had to seek out legal assistance and found out that in order to change anything, we had to have 100% of the households voting (never going to happen) and in order to vote, you couldn't be in arrears when it came to your dues (there are a ton of people who refuse to pay them).

Is yours 2/3 of the total households? Would you ever get everyone there to vote? That would be impossible around here.









After having seen what little power there is to change anything having to do w/covenants and bylaws, I think that the board is better off putting their time to other uses.


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## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

Eilowny-- how do you pronounce Rivkah? I've just been pronouncing it the way it is spelled. Is that wrong?

Casina-- I have noticed the can't word here too; but more from my own mouth and decided the other day I need to stop using that word.

Punk-- I have family in San Rafael too! I really like that area; even though it has grown in size a lot. Bordenaves (sp?) is a good place to get fresh bread and Goratti's a good place for italian foods and they have excellent salami if you're into it. San Fran is great too; pier 39, the warf, MOMA... have fun!!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

hey everyone!

i have much work to do on creating a home. just to start i realized last night that me and dh have been living with our clothes in a pile near the washing machine for years now. my closet is just filled with boxes. actually having our clothes in the laundry room is a pretty good place.
i can't even imagine not having the option of having a shed. but then that's why i live in crazy louisiana. where people do whatever they want and it looks completely trashed in some places. hey i can unschool to my heart's delight at least.

solsticemama, i love your hearing your compliments. and me in person is sometimes a different thing though i believe what i think is a powerful force in what i am. and i gotta tell you ladies, having three kids can make anyone wiser. i highly recommend it.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilmiss'mama*
Eilowny-- how do you pronounce Rivkah? I've just been pronouncing it the way it is spelled. Is that wrong?

No... in fact, I can't even think of another way to explain it. It's pronounced just like it's spelled.







Like I said, pretty intuitive. Of course, Eli's name is spelled phonetically too, and people still persist in calling him Elijah.







:

Casina-- You go girl! I don't even know if I'm capable of making a house a home. I feel like I do laundry all the time (not right now, though; our dryer is broken and the rain is pouring down, so the line isn't useful) but everything's still a mess. For a brief, shining moment things were tolerable.. and now they're a wreck again. I swear though, if things aren't straight around here soon I'm going to throw the computer out the window.







Mike's been playing Evil Game a lot less, but it's still not neat enough around here for me to breathe.

Speaking of breathing... I am a good mommy. I listen to my children and try to meet their needs before they break down. My son and daughter can communicate with me and do. I will take the time to listen to them today. I love my children, and find listening to them worthwhile. My children love me, and are counting on me to meet their needs for food, shelter, and love today. I am a good mommy; I can do these things! (This morning's mantra.)


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

Punk I am looking forward to the fall because lately we have been living paycheck to paycheck. Summer has been kind of sucky too since I am pregnant.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

yes, summer here is a pain for me. like a minnesota winter.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Rynna- I've been pronouncing (in my head, as I read) Eli as "Elly", is it actually "Ee-lie"? I guess it's just the habit of speaking Spanish, and pronouncing words that way. Like Anna's daughter Revina. It could be Ra-vine-a, for all I know, but I pronounce it Re-veen-a. And I've been saying Mook-tee for little Mukti. OTOH, Julianna's name is pronounced the American way, not Julie-onna.









Stuffy and runny noses here, not sleeping good. Running in a million directions putting stuff away after vacation, and getting things ready for our two-week respite placement coming on Friday. We're taking care of a friend's foster son for two weeks while they take a much-needed vacation. (He has no head or neck control due to exposure to psychotropic drugs in utero.) Should be interesting, to say the least, especially since DH will be in Cali. for the X-Games for 4 days and I'll be here with four kids alone! I think I'll bribe my little sister to come stay with me to help out...

Been thinking about you and your girls, Jasanna...


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

It's hard for me to keep up with you guys. There is so much wise words on this thread.

This past weekend I went to the Mission Folk Music Festival, where I live. It's pretty cool to have a festival just a few blocks from my house. It was very (ahem)*challenging* to go out with a 2 week old, and a raging 19 month old.

Haeven is so sociable. She goes up to everyone and says HI!!! She is sooo loud too. Good thing I'm not going to the festival every weekend.







I have to have 3 people to help me look after her.

But the music was nice to see and hear, anyways.

My little Samaya has gained a pound since birth, which is good.gotta go..........


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

yuck. my dh called me from work and is talking about quitting within the month and how much can we REALLY scrape by. is there anything to discuss really? i'm not cool with cutting down the 500 we have a month to live on aside from bills. i never feel i can buy enough food and i do all the cooking as it is, reed has eaten an adult's portion since he was three. and this includes food stamps and my mil paying me to make meals twice a week. just cos we lived on less before (like 150 a month) doesn't mean i want to do it again. good thing he got his freaking studio.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

back from our trip. whew....









only have a sec, but wanted to say that no, casina, that doesn't sound cool that your dh wants to quit. as one who has to deal w/ financial yuchness as well, i don't think my dh always understands how difficult it is on me that we never have any money. i know it is hard for him too, but as the caregiver of the family, the stress of money depletes my already wanning energies. kudos to those single mamas- i don't know how you do it.

hopefully i will be able to check in more fully later.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

DecemberSun your heart is wide and deep, mama.

Having just read about Leah and Casina and MamaJ, I'm feeling the real, the raw, the incredible ordinariness inside this exaltation called mothering and the grace with which we are all getting thru each day. Blessed to be sharing this space with y'all. Sending







peaceful vibes your way, mamas.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

DecemberSun, Eli is indeed "Elly" because he's "Eliyahu" and not "Elijah". Still, for some reason a lot of people look at "Eliyahu" and _say_ "Elijah"; I'm not entirely sure why.









Casina,







. My husband and I have talked about what we'd do if he ever lost his job or felt very strongly compelled to quit. Life would suck even more than it does right now, that's for sure, but I suppose we'd find a way to get through it. Sometimes I feel like I don't have a right to say anything because I'm staying home and he's the one who's bringing in the money, but then I realize: I'm not getting paid, but I'm doing a much more important job than he is. He knows it, too, and we talk about the money stuff as equal partners.

Rivkah has a doctor's appointment tonight. Her urine smells really unbelievably awful and there's less of it than there was before. She's also spent the whole day either sleeping or crying in pain.







Not my usual, interactive, looking around BooBah Doll.







I hate seeing my kids in pain, it's so difficult for me, I always feel so helpless.

Things were better with Eli today. For the first time since Rivkah was born, I didn't feel like his goal for the day was to see how many ways he could find to get me upset. We've had a great day together. I just wish Rivkah was feeling so good.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Mona, welcome back. The image of your dd at the beach is a sweet one. How did the airplane travel go?

Rynna, my understanding of the name 'Eliyahu' is that it's the original Hebrew form of Elijah. Is that correct? Perhaps that's where the confusion arises for folks. I do know it's similar in syllabic content to the chant/name/mantra certain lineages use to remember God, with the word "hu" being the Sound of sounds.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
Rynna, my understanding of the name 'Eliyahu' is that it's the original Hebrew form of Elijah. Is that correct? Perhaps that's where the confusion arises for folks. I do know it's similar in syllabic content to the chant/name/mantra certain lineages use to remember God, with the word "hu" being the Sound of sounds.

It is,







. "El" is actually the God syllable; "Eliyahu" means "my God is who is", or "my God is God."


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

rynna~I sincerely hope that your little girl will be well. I don't know if you are interested, but there are some things that help the kidneys... nettle tea, unsweetened cranberry juice, basically most fruits and vegetables. Salt is extremely hard on the kidneys, as is meat. HTH~


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
alibuff, i do want to meet you one of these days. but i'm not sure about the next few days, at least to invite you. i'm already in a crisis about my home, my body is healing from falling apart, and then there's my private worry about how my kids behave and how it fits with others especially since you have girls. i'm working on it.....

Casina,
I totally understand







I prolly wouldn't be able to meet up anytime soon anyways... only have one car working and Jeremy takes it to work most days. Although, our neighbor has just started working at the same place, so, maybe they'll carpool everyday and I'll have the car every other day... LOL
My house is chaotic too... its really hard to keep it up with 2 kids... even harder I'm sure with more!
My girls... well... my 5 yr is a drama queen... she's a tiny drama queen. She's very social though. My 19 mth old is kind of a bully sometimes... with major attitude. She throws tandrums. I'm pretty much at the point where I don't really want to bring either one with me when I go to the store. Calista's constantly asking for this, that,and the other and trying to wander away from me (enough to get picked up) and Ursula is now wanting to get out of the grocery cart and run up and down the aisles. Its very exhausting. So, I'm not really getting out the house too much anyways








If you'd like to talk IRL, I can easily call you. We have that flat rate calling plan... call nationwide... I love it







It sounds like we have some things in common... of course, that might not work too well either because it seems as though everytime I pick the phone up, my kids start screaming, fighting, or something...
I know we just met, so, no pressure







lol I'm just happy to meet others that are somewhat like myself close by








Oh, what type of work does your dh do?
Hope things look brighter for you soon!
Alison


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

alibuff, my kids aren't predictable either. i feel better after reading your post!

what happenned, that pressed my buttons, is my dh snuck in the conversation that i was to get a job. i hate being talked to that way. and i know he doesn't mean to hurt my feelings. but it is a very old issue with us. he has never liked to work or have the financial responsibility. he ordered me to work after we moved back to louisiana and then ended up ordering me to wean reed. i'm just starting to feel i have healed my relationship with reed.

it only gets worse. he has been on neurontin for who knows what reason for the pain in his back supposedly and saw the doctor yesterday and they decided since he wants to get off of it. so i know he is haveing a withdrawal problem. i made him talk to me tonight and he told me he is going to quit tomorrow and that he has been telling me and i haven't listened. and about how we are going to lose the house and everything. he is suddenly extremely depressed. i'm not sure what to do yet.


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## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

s casina, depression is really hard. My x struggles with it a lot and my sister does too occasionally. It is hard to understand if you haven't dealt with it in yourself.

Scarlett woke up with a runny nose. I have been giving her immuno booster and homeopathic stuff so hopefully it won't last long.

Leah-- you are right; it is re-vee-na!

Glad you're back Mona; hope you had a great trip!


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Casina i don't even know what to say - i feel so inarticulate lately. I am so sad reading your post just now. You are in my thoughts









you have a lot to deal with, if you ever want to talk, please feel free to PM me. I may not know the "right" thing to say,but i'm a good listener, and I feel like we have some things in common.

my dh and i both deal with depression and "financial responsibility" issues but he has never ordered me to do anything and im not sure how i would react if he did....

Much Love,
punkprincessmama


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Oh, casina, I love you!








I don't have any sage advice, but I do have you in my thoughts and prayers. I hope everything works out for the best, without too much crap in the meantime.

Gotta go, Runny Nose Boy has been fightin sleep...


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Casina. I took neurontin for a while, years ago... strange memories.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Casina


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Well, I've gone grocery shopping with both kids. Quite an adventure. And just now, Eli _cut a hole_ in his Hanna, the one cute outfit I bought last year for him. It's now officially ruined.









In other news, Mike managed to get most of the gv off of one of Rivkah's outfits.. it may even be passable in public! I suppose I should be happy about that, but right now I want to strangle Eli for cutting the Hanna... and WAKING UP HIS SISTER!!! gtg.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Rynna

Is the hole in a place you can put a cute iron on patch over it?


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

Casina








Rynna

BTW Rynna I have to tell you that my son is fascinated with pictures of Rivkah. I was looking at them yesterday and he was sitting on my lap and he keeps pointing and saying "baby". Usually he doesn't notice babies at all.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Oy, Casina...breathing peace for all of us who are hurting. How's your rib btw?

Lilmiss'mama have you found housing yet?


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hjohnson*
BTW Rynna I have to tell you that my son is fascinated with pictures of Rivkah. I was looking at them yesterday and he was sitting on my lap and he keeps pointing and saying "baby". Usually he doesn't notice babies at all.

That's pretty cool







. I think Rivkah's incredibly special myself, but of course I'm her mother.







Maybe he's letting you know that he's getting ready for his new sibling?

Sounds like a lot of us are having pretty crazy lives right now.







I took a nap this afternoon (well, I lost consciousness after hanging out a load of laundry :LOL) and dreamed that Eli and Rivkah were older... 4 and 2.5ish. Eli was doing 'schoolwork' with his sister and they were so quiet and cute and happy, and I was wanting to have another baby. Part of my mind was thinking "New babies are so much work!" but I wasn't thinking about that in the dream, it was more like the kids were so wonderful why wouldn't I want to have a dozen more? :LOL I woke up and thought of my sleeping children and had to smile because the dream reminded me that infancy doesn't last forever and niether does toddlerhood.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

rynna, i'm very familiar with kids that destroy and mess. in a different world like a long time ago it wouldn't be a big deal. i try to suck it up, see them as experiments, and focus on the fact that it is not destructive towards people. i think you have a choice to make here, whether to control him or not. controlling him means more vigilance and having an interfering issue with you and him. i think it is a battle you may be up for in a few months if you really want it. of course you can let him know it displeases you and show him what he cut or not. maybe a mess of water or flour everywhere would be less upsetting for you. but eliyahu is still very little, even though you have a tinier one. i'm impressed with his fine motor skills. it is a little thing that goes a long way. like it is related to reading words and people and him having control over his body is a power that my eldest especially lacks and is frustrating. the reason i have some clothes to send you is because my boys did not have those skills to harm their things (or even notice their clothes) and spent their energy attacking each other when little.

i'm going to get a job. i'm debating about getting a wig! i will probably end up waiting tables. i'm expecting to work 25 hours and make whatever it is i need, at least 1000 so that dh doesn't have to take the fairness meter out anymore. i called dh's parents and asked them to check on him. i also copied some of his friends' numbers to call them and get dh checked on so he doesn't feel so alone.

my rib still hurts when i think about it but is healing nicely, thanks for asking. my body is a little down these days........


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm getting a real taste of being a mother of two now. My babies daddy left yesterday, back for his home, and he was helping me out a lot. the older baby wants attention, and the little one wants attention. They seem to sleep at the same time though. well the NB sleeps all the time.... I wish haeven was older when I had samaya, but that is not how it happened. It's a TOTAL juggling act.

Hopefully they will be good to each other. I used to fight with my brother "holy wars". It was not pretty.

Haeven is a little terror to her cousin elwynn. She will pull him around by the hair and push him, and throw (very heavy, dangerous things) at him. I just sit there and pull my hair out. I feel so guilty, cause elwynn is not my baby, and at this age, there is not much we can do via discapline(sp?) So we have to keep them apart, which is sad, because they love each other so much (funny, isn't it). I have tryed "time-out" with her, when it got REALLY bad one time. But she did not learn any lesson, cause she found something to play with.









I never wanted to do time-out's, hearing that they don't really work, but the way that haeven has hurt elwynn, she has to understand that is not acceptable. and if I get angry at her, and tell her it's not o.k., she just looks at me with a blank stare. The only thing that gets a reaction out of her, is when her dad, or my brother just look at her with the disapproving look. and then she will


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

i've been following along, but havent' had the energy to respond. the days have been long, and my emotions have been on the surface. this morning i cried, as i was so tired, and dd was over tired and not napping. it was as close to depression that i'd been in awhile, but after dd's 3.5 hour nap i felt better, as i was able to sleep a tiny bit.

casina- i have some words to say about neurontin but have to go now. i will be back....


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

ok, i'm back.










casina-
my brother, who is bi-polar- has taken neurotin. it is supposedly an anti convulsant, but has properties that have proven to be successful w/ cases of depression. (or was it anxiety? hmmmmm







) but in any case, i've read that the clinical trial cases were bogus, so many believe that is is not a useful drug. my brother did go off of it, but slowly. perhaps your dh can ween off it to avoid side effects?
in regards to having to get a job- how do you feel about this? is your husband up to the job of being a part time care giver to the kids? and what will the kids say, do you think? regardless, may you feel my







s and feel your inner strength as you go thru this transition.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Hi!









not much anything exciting here. Ava is doing swell. she is becoming quite fiesty and opinionated. She is talking like a crazy person. for some reasn it seems names have just strted to click. She is impressing all of Madelines friends when she squeals thier name when they walk in a room. 6-8 year olds really eat that up. And she sits around all day crying for papa. It is funny my other two kids are crazy about him and he about them but him and Ava have the closest relationship. it is very sweet. It also gives me leverage for babysitting "oh, Ava has been dying to see papa" He never says no :LOL

so anyway. we have started down the road to potty training but she could care. well, so far, for her whole life, every time she has gotten within 3 ft. of a potty someone has run up and shut the lid. So now when we sit her on it she stands up, shuts the lid and looks all proud that she knows exactly what to do with one of those things :LOL

thats it though.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

actually, as anti - drug as i am, i think the neurontin did quite a bit for my dh's state of mind especially when he started it. he is slowly weaning off of it and is better today.

i went from despondent yesterday to feeling energized after realizing how much dh needed my help. i offered some specific work solutions to him, and i am now okay with the concept, and i think he is realizing that it would not make things easier. he would still have to work. i am offering either way to bring in some kind of income so that he doesn't feel so burdened by the responsibility. i'm just glad i feel assertive about all this.

mamajaza, this is the advice i liek to give the most, but i'll say it again. learn to use the sling, having samaya nurse and sleep in it. i will make you one or find one i'm not using if you measure your shoulder bone to your hip bone. i have pouches and ring ones. you too rynna! it is what saved me having clay. before clay was in the sling reed would just try to kill him. my emotional comfort in being a mother was greatly enhanced by using the sling at all times.

and the hitting. yes, they are too little and she can mind others but your disapproval is not the same thing as others and can interfere with your communication with her. you will have to take it as a compliment that she is so connected to you that your disapproval is a bizarre foreign concept in the land of always love. she is just experimenting and finds it fun and has no malice associated with it....yet. she will consider you getting upset an interesting reaction caused by her actions and my kids learned to enjoy getting a rise out of me. pretend to look the other way. hovering will not keep them from interacting. i have a dear friend where we have both decided we cannot really hang out much because of the toddler behaviour. now since haeven and elwynn are cousins and i assume you see each other often, you can try to let it run it's course. it will take a great deal of courage and both mammas having faith that they are okay, and possibly just leaving them alone for periods at a time and just coming when you hear crying. they can smell fear and your every vibe. if you even think there will be hurts they will try it. at least put a goofy sticker on her head before he comes over so you won't take her so seriously. with this same friend i got to where i was okay with her son pushing ruby and would have to take deep breathe and feel and show nothing or look occupied with something else. and we decided only the mother would comfort the hurt child and not pass judgment and be lighthearted and change the situation like by going into a different room and forget about what just happenned. but on low days the two would be fine until she entered the room. the vibe can be a big thing. focusing on things can make it bigger. they can work it out if they have no audience. either she will tire of it or he will assert himself. it will depend on the personalities of all concerned. this is a very tough thing that requires cooperation and respect from both mammas but it can be done. generally they will not be hurt badly physically, especially since both are walking okay. at least they are about the same size and strength. and they have no malice and little memory so there is no emotional hurt for you to worry about for elwynn, but for mamafern. they are both sweet babies and you must remind yourselves of that and expect and envision that things will turn out fine.

i guess y'all may think i'm loony now. and i am!


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Casina,
No, I don't think you're looney







Think you make lots of sense









I'm glad you're feeling better today







... yeah, I also can't imagine my SO telling me to get a job (and meaning it). I told him from the start that if I get pregnant, I'm not working... and I have haven't since Calista's birth. Because I know that he is able to make enough for us... he's just been slacking the last few years. He's finally come out of that 'haze' and starting to prioritize right.

I hope things work out well for you all! I've waited tables for a few years myself... know all about that... could be nice, fun... Would your dh be watching the kids while you work?

BTW, I'm going through your webshots photos







Love the birth ones (naturally







)! Well, love all of them


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mona*
my brother, who is bi-polar- has taken neurotin. it is supposedly an anti convulsant, but has properties that have proven to be successful w/ cases of depression. (or was it anxiety? hmmmmm







) but in any case, i've read that the clinical trial cases were bogus, so many believe that is is not a useful drug.

Anti-convulsant drugs are used to treat bipolar disorder because someone discovered (through MRI, I believe) that brain activity during a manic episode is often similar to that observed during certain kinds of siezures. Thus, they are used not only to treat acute manic episodes but to prevent those episodes in the future. They are not generally good at treating or preventing depressive episodes, which is why anti-convulsant therapy for bipolar disorder is most often used in conjunction with anti-depressant therapy.









For some people anti-convulsant therapy is extremely effective in managing bipolar; for others (myself included) it does little or nothing. I'm pretty sure that there's research being done to find drugs that can treat bipolar disorder, but it's very difficult because of the nature of the disease. Brain activity and chemistry change rapidly and are unpredictable, particularly in type I bipolar disorder, so it's hard to know which drug is going to work when.

You know, I wish I could look at the holes in Eli's clothing (this isn't the first time, by any stretch), or even the fact that he always manages to get to the scissors regardless of where I put them, and think "Wow, he's really coordinated," but I always get irritated. Some messes are more impressive to me than others. I was very impressed, for example, when I learned that Eli was strong enough and coordinated enough to turn on the outside water faucet. I didn't want it on, but I was still pretty impressed. Flour and water aren't nearly so bad, that just forms a water-soluble concrete and I can totally live with that! :LOL I'm going to have to get some flour, thanks for the reminder.

I'd heard that fine motor coordination is often correlated to early reading ability, but I never really bought it because I learned to read very early and couldn't color inside the lines or cut neatly along a line until I was around 11. In fact, I remember hearing my first grade teacher tell my mother that I'd have trouble learning to read because I colored outside the lines. My mother gave her a nasty look; I had been reading for four years when I started first grade, and could read anything that was put in front of me and understand it.







I have a sister who could draw when she was 2 years old, but she didn't learn to read until she was nearly 6 and even then had issues (dyslexia).

I've tried to nurse Rivkah in the sling, but it's impossible for me. I think my boobs are too big; whenever I try, Rivkah pops off and cries because she can't breathe.







Maybe when she's a little bit bigger I'll be able to manage it, but because I'm short and my boobs are huge, if I have the sling adjusted so that she could breathe and nurse at the same time, she's practically in my lap and I have to hold her anyway, so I don't even bother anymore. I love letting her sleep in the sling (like right now!







) but sometimes it's nice to let her sleep and put her down so that I can move a little more quickly. I have to put Eli into a baby cage to manage this, because he likes to share his favorite toys with her, none of which are appropriate for BooBah.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

MammaJazz

I posted a while about about the hitting. Georgia was so bad at our playgroup I was close to not going (and I love those women and children) I don't know what happened or what I did but she seems to be over the hump with it. Maybe it is just a phase and will pass. One thing i tried was when she was hitting to tell her we don't hit people but quickly give her something she could hit like a drum.

I was a little worried about this week b/c I have been away every day from early afternoon until past midnight at the democtratic convention and I thought she would act out a little. I prepared for it by keeping every monring free and spending lots of time on the floor playing with her. She seems a little more clingy to me in the mornings but Andrew has had no problems with her in the afternoon or night. Last night he put her to bed and left my sister with her so he could come see Edwards speak and she woke up crying for me. My sister was able to calm her down until we got home which was pretty soon after. This morning she is more clingy but it's only one more day.

Anyone have any fun playtime suggestions? I would like to have some new fun things to do with her starting firday to reconnect.

Thanks

Amy


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

casina~ what kind of sling do you suggest? I find slings very hard to figure out. Thank-you for the advice on fighting. You know, I would be O.K. with letting H and E battle it out, but I don't think fern would be. I guess I should ask her. the thing is that elwynn weighs about 10!!! lbs less than haeven, so there is significant strength differences. And haeven is a head taller than elwynn.

abranger~I hope this is a phase too.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

casina and eilonwy- thanks for the heads up on the neurotin. it's been awhile since i'd read about it. casiana- why did your dh decide to go off it if it was working well? if he's into herbs, i know a lot of people who had success w/ st. john's wort ticture. the quality has to be good, but it works for many people.

for those w/ experience w/ bipolar- i know it is somewhat heridetary, but don't know how if follows the family line. my grandmother was bi-polar, my brother, and of course i'm worried about my dd. my mom said that she never noticed anything w/ my brother until he was in adolescence, but back then she didn't know what to look for either. i think the way they raised him, controlling w/ lots of limitations, did not help his temperment, and led to the development of many distructive patterns for dealing w/ things. so i think had he been raised differently, the bipolar would have surfaced differently as well. i guess what i'm saying is that i know it has to do w/ chemicals, but i also strongly believe it has to do w/ internal patterning and how you cope w/ the world. i hope that makes sense. anyway, i guess it is just something i will have to keep an eye on w/ kathrynn.
any insights would be welcome.

abranger- how awesome that you've been at the convention!!!i haven't even had the chance to read the paper these days, so i feel totally out of it politically.
as far as playtime suggestions- does she like water? dd loves the hose, and being outside. so i 'd recommend that, or maybe a hike? she also loves animals, so we try to go on walks to see different animals. of course, i live in the country, so that helps. :LOL

casina- i'm glad things are going pretty good. sounds like positive developments....

my goal for this moon is to establish firmer boundries w/ my dh- tell him what i need and hold him to it. in the past i have stated my needs, but then let it go when the needs are not met, making excuses for him, or just not putting energy into getting my needs met. well, it is making me one burnt out frazzeled mama, and not helping our relationship either. while i was on "vacation" i could not believe the lack of boundries that my dh's family had w/ various issues. it made me want to really work on that in myself.

gotta run...


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

Jasanna I would recommend checking out http://www.peppermint.com for slings. She carries a wide variety of slings and discusses the differences between them. I personally like a pouch over a ring sling because there is no adjustment needed. My son is a holy terror as well at times. He is in the pushing, grabbing, shoving, and hitting phase right now and I cringe anytime we go somewhere and there are kids there. I never know how he is going to react. Some days he is a perfect little gentleman and other days he acts like he is possessed by the devil himself. I know he will get over it soon.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I think that bi-polar and other mental illnesses are just a syptom of the sickness of society. I think that people with these illnesses are really just very sensitive, amazing human beings, who are overcome by the stangnancy that is so prevalent in our society.

I have a cousin who was "diagnosed" with bi-polar, but he doesn't feel that he has it any more. He thinks that it really just has to do with his diet (avoiding allergens, such as corn), emotional blockages, and toxins in his system. He needed compassion to get through the rough times.

In the native american world, people with "mental illnesses" were given a special place in the community, and were seen as shamens.

There is also really good results for many people by doing full body cleanses with herbs and clean water.

I really feel sorry for anyone who has gotten the "mental illness" label. Because I don't think it is permanent, yet it's hard to shake the label once you've gotten it.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Mamajaza- I pretty much agree w/ you, although i do think for some people there really is a chemical imbalance that goes beyond the external. but for most, i think that balancing out the internal and external can bring one to a place where they can deal w/ society functionally.
bah, dd is climbing on me....


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
I think that bi-polar and other mental illnesses are just a syptom of the sickness of society. I think that people with these illnesses are really just very sensitive, amazing human beings, who are overcome by the stangnancy that is so prevalent in our society.

I've been bipolar since I was about three years old; I was formally diagnosed at 14. In some respects I agree that people with mental illnesses are in general very sensitive, and I agree that there is an environmental component but I don't think that it's 100% or even 50% environmental. My brain is different from someone who doesn't have this disease, and it was rigged to grow differently. I think that had I had a different kind of childhood, the onset of illness may have been later and less severe, but I still think it would have happened. I've tried all kinds of things, herbs, meditation, you name it I've done it, from the most mundane allopathic stuff to the most far out woo woo stuff. Right now, I'm in remission and have been for a few years, but I know better than to think that it's permanent and I am hypervigilant about my emotional and mental state; I can tell when a true manic episode is coming on or I'm in the midst of one, even though I can't stop it. I can tell the difference between a real depression and something temporary/situational/hormonal. I've become very attuned to my brain, and I maintain a constant awareness of my "level", because I don't want to get psychotic again if I can avoid it. (Anyone who says they're "enjoying every minute" of insanity has never truly experienced it, I guarantee it.







).

Yes, bipolar disease tends to run in families: if an immediate family member has bipolar (or any mental illness) you're more likely to develop it. I can't remember the exact statistic, but I actually know where to find it, so feel free to pm me. I do believe that environment can have an impact on severity and age of onset of bipolar disorder, but again I don't think that's even close to being the whole story. I think that even in the safest, healthiest environment you can imagine, I would have had problems with bipolar disorder from a fairly early age (though probably not three). It isn't "permanent", but it does come and go often in cycles and wiith long periods of remission. People can go for years without a single manic episode and then start having them again for no apparent reason...







Even though I haven't been sick in a long time, I still maintain an awareness because I know that it could pop back up again anytime.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

thanks eilonwy for taking the time to write all that out....
pm'ing you.


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## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

*solsticemama*-- yes and no to the housing question. We have not been able to find a home of our own mostly b/c I am having a hard time finding a job. However, we have been accepted into a women/children's shelter and I will start calling on sat. to find out about availability. They don't save a place for you; you just have to call everyday until there is a space available. I can look on the positive side and see it as a way to save money and possibly get into some cheap housing once we are out (3 months). But, it is also hard to accept. It is one of those things I just never thought I'd do. It will be a huge lifestyle change and I am afraid my oldest will want to stay with her dad if she is not comfortable there. For whatever reason she doesn't like it where we are now and chooses to stay with him every once and awhile as it is. It make me feel like a bad mama to not be able to provide a place she is comfortable in







.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

so much to say and i should be in bed. answer: dh was prescribed neurontin for his herniated disc pain. we have neither been diagnosed with mental illness though we "could" be since we are sensitive dynamic people but for the most part are not overly sick. i hope that sounds reasonable.....his digestion is now shot and he wonders what else is off kilter and he doesn't want to be on any drugs anyway and feels ready to be in control that's why he has decided to work more even though our income will drop when worker's comp cuts us off. meanwhile, bipolar or not, his feelings of well being are definitely altered by weaning off the drug. and as much as i hate to admit it, he has been overall more pleasant to live with this past year because of it.

labels are weird. i decided to look for this toy that reed loves since his birthday is coming up. they are called pop tubes. i suddenly end up with a search with sites and arrows pointing to apraxia, asperger's, sensory dysfunction, adhd, etcetera etcetera. labels i have always avoided for my child. and the toys suggested for these labeled kids are, of course, the kinds of things he can play. lots of tactile. lots of motion. weighted clothing.

i don't know about what level of coordination is related to reading like coloring in the lines and such. so far reed will make a scribble a few times a year if goaded. he's almost six. ruby can color better than him like she knows that if she doesn't press it down too tight it will make a better line. i watched her expertly riffling the pages in a book today. but he can push letters on a computer keyboard. he's motivated to do it over and over and i think it relates to him needing an exact sense of control.

i have many thoughts on mental illness but they are rambly and it is late. i do tend to agree with you, mamajaza, at least for the new general prozac nation. right now i'm kind of mad at a local friend for her funk. which is of course not helpful. it's a long story......

i remember with the fresh babies, that i would lay them horizontally with their feet towards the load bearing shoulder. and to nurse, i would pop their head out so that the sling edge was between the head and back and support it with my forearm. with clay i was happier having some sort of padding there until i got more comfortable.

heather, you are getting close huh?

hugs to you lilmiss.....

p.s. my dh said nothing today about me getting a job. this evening i thought, what, so now i'm thankful to do all the housework? sometimes i baffle myself.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
p.s. my dh said nothing today about me getting a job. this evening i thought, what, so now i'm thankful to do all the housework? sometimes i baffle myself.

:LOL i have had this same thought after discussions with my dh about my getting a job....








hugs to everyone.

We are off in the morning for Cali., so let me say that I hope you all have a great week. and wish us luck!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Division of labor in our home is pretty orthodox. Tho dh has taken on the dishes for the past year and a half which I'm so grateful for since the size our kitchen means they need to be washed at each meal. Not that this happens but it means I can look at the pile without feeling the need to do something about it. Even tho I'd like not to see a pile of dirty dishes in the morning.

Lilmiss's mama







s, wishing I had a lovely space to offer you and your girls.

Labels are useful as long as you don't believe them. Same goes for coloring inside the lines.

Punk, safe travels.


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

hi mamas. i'm still here...







:
erin has taken to eating crayons. I'm kinda bummed because, well, I don't want to tell her 90 times a day no crayon eating. So off to the shelf they go for a bit. Any ideas on why? Is she missing a nutrient? Is she curious? Is she almost 2? yeah. probably all that.

speaking of eating. we are dipping like crazy. Did you know that if you dip your snap peas in the milk they taste good? Did you know that if you want your toddler to eat snap peas you teach them to dip them in the milk you have already poured by pretending to dip and eat?

Erin's had a rough couple of nights sleeping. She was really in a groove and well, something's up. All my IRL friends' kids are funky sleeping now too. This too shall pass and domestic bliss will return. Sigh.

Littlemiss -- best of luck with the housing/job business. That kind of stuff is so hard to deal with.

Mamas with new babies --- hug them extra for me. I'm wanting a baby but not wanting the first six months. I think I'm wired for toddler/preschool age kiddos. I love to drool over other peoples babies. I'm just pleased as can be with my family right now though


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Ava has suddenly upset her sleeping rythem. I htik ther is somehting up with these near two year olds.

Funny that erin is so into eating crayons. Is she dipping them in something first







Its a 2 year old thing. the must be tasty.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Almost my entire family has been diagnosed with some form of depression, or Bipolar Disorder. I was pretty depressed, and I took meds for a few years, before I had Zachary. I was so afraid I'd be thrown into this huge hole of PPD after his birth, but I actually felt better than I'd ever felt in my entire life. YK- aweing over the sheer miracle of growng a child inside you, staring at your perfect new born, enjoying your newly created family. I attribute the change in attitude a lot to breastfeeding. I think the release of those feel-good hormones must have "knocked something loose", so to speak, so it all works correctly now. All those seretonin releasing and absorbing cells are working at full force. Breastfeeding has been the best thing I've ever done for myself!

I also agree that you can do A LOT to improve your mood, memory, energy, and general brain function by avoiding certain trigger foods, and doing a good herbal cleansing every now and then. It can't fix every problem if a person does indeed have a chemical imbalance, but it does a lot for those that just have some blockages throughout their bodies.

Zachary finally slept better last night- he has been sleeping horribly since we got home from vacation. He's re-coop'ing from a cold. Now his asthma is flaring up. He has recently decided that he doesn't want to take a nap during the day







, so between 3pm-5pm he is a terror. He might finally pass out at 3:30 or 4, but if he doesn't he gets a second wind and has a huge surge of energy. It's too funny watching him fight sleep. It's like he's drunk or something- swaying while he walks, talking jibberish, with red, bleary eyes.









About dipping- my kids LOVE LOVE LOVE it. If we're eating anything that has a dip, salsa, cheese, etc. with it, the kids HAVE to dip. Their faves are potato chips and dip, or veggies and ranch. It's really funny when they try to do it themselves, and they get ranch on their entire hand, and then they wipe their eye or something and they get it all over!







I always ask them "Do you want some veggies with your ranch?" because they like to dip-lick-redip-lick...

Crystal turned 8 yesterday! I can't believe she's a little lady now- I still think of her as a baby







. We're having a party this weekend at Grammy and Pappaw's where the kids can play and swim with the cousins. We're making a bunch of cupcakes and letting the kids decorate them themselves. Should be interesting!


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

Mona- Yeah the convention was exciting but I am exhausted now! I need another 4 days to recooperate. Funny how my life has changed all of my friends and co-workers were off the fabulous star studded parties every night and I just didn't have it in me. No matter what time I go to bed I still get that 7 am wake up call! Actually the last few days it has been 5:30







: I think since I wasn't around at bedtime that when she woke up at 5:30 (which is usually just nursing and back to sleep) and saw me it was 'yeah playtime mommies back'









Another change I noticed since becoming a mother was that I was really moved when Chris Heinz was introducing his mother. I was so weepy as he talked about what a great mom she was to him.

We are off to the beach for the weekend to reconnect and play in the sand!

Amy


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

Casina I guess you could say I am getting close. I am sitting at 35 weeks and 1 day and the baby dropped at 34 weeks. I don't know what labor is like though. I know all of you are thinking "How could she not know what labor is like?" I had pre-eclampsia, they induced me, gave me magnesium sulfate, which in turn gave me a horrendous sinus headache, so the nurses gave me stadol which in turn knocked me out. I remember just a little of the first dose wearing off, still having the headache and getting a second dose. I also had an epidural. All I remember is waking up the next morning and the nurse telling me that I was complete so I could start pushing. I slept through my labor. I am hoping that this time I will go into labor naturally. So far no Gestational Diabetes and my blood pressure is relatively low. Keep your fingers crossed for me! I don't want Pre-Eclampsia again. My doctor told me that if it shows up again that they will do a C-section this time.


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## Michelle Leigh (Oct 31, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
I'm getting a real taste of being a mother of two now. My babies daddy left yesterday, back for his home, and he was helping me out a lot.

Sending you lots of love!!








Hang in there.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

kerc, your post was delightful. eilonwy, i've been thinking about how much i admire your strength in dealing with bipolar and how impressed that you know your limits enought to handle it.

heather, i'm sending happy labor vibes. keep eating healthy.

i've got the suddenly feisty to go to bed syndrome as well. it started this week. along with: more than an hour nap is a mistake.

i've been reading a book from an anthropological/evolutionary perspective called the descent of the child by elaine morgan.

i did it. i cut a doorway today between my "dining room" and the "master bedroom" which is just a big mess of kids stuff and my sewing space - the workshop. now they can run some circles, there is more light, and my home seems bigger. what this also means is that now we technically have only one bedroom in my house, and that cosleeping is here to stay.

discussions concerning my employment have ceased for the time being. meanwhile i've got a 6 yr old birthday party to get my home in shape for in two weeks? i guess i need to set a date and get that going.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

nak

wise mamas- what is the best way to remove ink from clothes?


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

We have a 6 month old baby boy! Well, for two weeks anyway. He seems to have adjusted to being here very well. He fussed every 20 minutes or so until 1am the first night, but has slept well since then. The babies love him. They're constantly kissing him and patting his head! I have to be careful though because when they bend down to kiss him they lay their hand on his chest and put their whole weight on him. They have only been a tiny bit jealous of him- trying to climb into the swing and infant seat that I brought out of hiding since thier days of babyhood. Zach doesn't seem to mind me holding Jose and feeding him a bottle. He just pats him and repeats "baby, baby" over and over again. This gives me hope for when we have another one of our own. Although DH doesnt think we'd give J. and Z. enough attention if we had a newborn around, so we're still waiting...


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mona*
nak

wise mamas- what is the best way to remove ink from clothes?










that depends on the kind of ink and the kind of clothing (fabic/color).


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

DecemberSun I am glad to hear that everything is going well with the new addition. I was worried about how my son would take to a new baby but so far things look good. Everytime he sees a baby sitting in a bucket, he will walk up to the baby and lightly stroke their legs and feet and say "Baby". I don't have any good tips for getting ink out of fabric.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Hey mamas, I just spent the morning with punkprincessmama and her dd and dh. What a lovely family they are. I took some pics which I'll post when I get them transferred from the camera. It was a sweet morning with our dcs 'playing' together. Mariah would gather little rocks for Mukti who would say "yakoo mama" each time she handed him one







and then he would toss them and ask for more and then Mariah would find some more and the process began anew. Punk's dh is a real sweetie, a gentle caring papa, supportive dh and an all-round nice guy and Mariah is a delicate flower. Punk, herself, is one hip mama with great dreads and a lovely smile. We talked about all y'all, she wanted to know if Heather was still







, how Casina was doing. We admired *mamjaza*'s UC and I filled her in on DecemberSun's latest addition. It was a lovely morning.

And I thought y'all would like this pic from the chicken pox week.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Rose, your son is just beautiful. There are no to ways about it!







I'm glad you got to meet a fellow MDC mama IRL! That's so fun, isn't it? I wish I could meet all of you in person... I feel like I know you all pretty well now!

Well, I spoke too soon about everything going well with the new baby. Last night he pretty much cried all night long and I didn't get much sleep. Today he wasn't much better. DH is gone taking the baby to visit his birth mother (black hair, red and black eye make-up, 15 yrs. old or so...) and he supposedly gets all whipped up after a visit with her- not sleeping well, not eating well, generally off kilter. I'm hoping and praying that he'll just get worn out and sleep nicely tonight. Zach has been very understanding it seems, but his patience for sharing his mama is wearing thin. It's going to be a long two weeks...

See if you can guess what these words mean in "Zach language". His pronunciation is still horrible on these few words, but he has over 90 words in his vocabulary, and he's FINALLY starting to put two and three word sentences together!

fowoh..........fire
beenbah..........rainbow
bopt..........rock
dun..........drum
boopt..........book
tuddy..........tubby (as in bathtub)
faffle..........puzzle
ming..........swing
neen..........drink
pappoh..........apple
mone..........milk
bobey..........berry
totch..........squash

DH got some really great pictures of the kids swimming yesreday at Crystal's b-day party, so as soon as he downloads them I'll post them here!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Rose-- is your son's name Blessing? (Or am I missing something?







) Eli's first name is actually blessing-- it's Baruch. We gave him the Baruch because he got off to a bumpy start in life; right now, I'm looking for a name to give BooBah, too, to help her on her path since it's kind of bumpy too.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

That's awesome, solsticemama, that you got to meet one of our fellow nov/dec 02 moms.. we're a pretty small group.
All I could think when I read about how cutely your babies were playing, was, "it sure wouldn't be like that if my DD was there". She would probably be *throwing* the rocks.







:

Today, fern took out a wooden train for elwynn to play with, and haeven took it and really whacked him with it. Oh, god. I hate that so much. I really think she wants attention (MORE)... but I do as much as I possibly can with her. There is always *someone* watching her. We live in a pretty busy house.

Raising children is definately a BIG job. No slackers allowed.

Does anyone know the definition of "spirited child"? I wonder if that is what she is, because she really thrives when we go out "on the town".

Decembersun~







I feel for you! a infant/toddler mix is really hard.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

rubbing alcohol for ink. not exact but i think isopropyl works better than ethyl? keep on rubbing it in with the offended garment on a flat surface, you need more than you think since the alcohol will evaporate. this was something i learned on a job when i was pregnant with clay.

i'm not getting notified lately.

zach language looks normal to me.

rose, i'm glad i got to see a picture of you. though i'm not sure why. i guess it's the kinds of stimulus my body needs for things to be real. whereabouts are you and punkprincess anyway?

spirited..... mamajaza, i recommend you have a ten minute ritual everyday where you are alone with haeven not nursing, doing something mild like a walk or just sitting together, concentrating on her, even in your thoughts, just being there with her and soaking in her loveliness.

love you guys
casina


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

Solticemomma and everyone else. I am still pregnant. I am currently 35 weeks and 5 days. I had a doctor's appointment yesterday and she said everything looks great. The baby has definitely dropped and is head down. She said my BP is low and Urine is clear. No spilled sugar or proteins. Now I am just waiting.

Christopher is starting to count. Both DH and I make sure we count as we read books with him. My friend was watching him yesterday when I was at the doctor's office and she told me that he could say 1, 2 ... and then he would get stuck so she helped him with 3, 4, and 5. She said that her son was fascinated by the way he was counting. Owen will be 16 months on the 10th. They had fun playing together. Christopher threw a big fit as we were leaving. Cindy promised him that he could come back especially since I now have to go to the doctor once a week. I think Christopher will like that.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

DecemberSun, thanks. You know oftentimes I look at ds and think, I am looking at the most beautiful being on the planet








. As the cp progressed something interesting occurred--the spots got redder and more dramatic and ds became softer and filled with light is the only way I can describe it. His mouth loosened, his gaze gentled even more. I imagine it was the alchemy of the illness but it was fascinating to watch.

MamaJ this morning I was thinking that even tho it's hard right now your dd's predisposition will probably serve her well in the years to come. She sounds assertive and strong, good qualities for a woman to have, tho not always appreciated by society as a whole.

Both Punkprincessmama and I envisioned all of us Nov/Dec. moms getting together at some point for a gathering of sorts.

This morning ds was eating breakfast with us and, like all your dcs, he likes to dip his food. I had spread some flax oil on bread for him and dh was having a hot and spicy mustard with his eggs which ds wanted. So we gave him some and he would dip his bread into it, look up with mild discomfort and say "help" before drinking his rice milk to cool his mouth off and then beginning the whole process again :LOL

Rynna, you pose an interestingly intuitive question. As you know, one of the next traditional words after Baruch is Hashem. The etymology of Shem includes the words 'name', 'sound' and 'vibration'. One of the meanings of one of ds's names is 'to hear the divine inner Sound' So while his actual name is not 'blessing' there is a strong association and link with the word itself. Btw the title of the pic 'blessing mudra' has to do with his hand movement. Mudra is a sanscrit word for divine hand movement and the particular position his was in at the time, which I didn't realize till after the pic was taken, is the 'blessing' hand movement or mudra.

Mona, where are U?


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Can I show off my babies?







pictures

Some of them are a few months old, but there are a few from our vacation in WA, and the swimming ones are from last weekend. The last picture is of our "temporary baby", Jose.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I added some pics to my sig









Decembersun~nice to have a face to the name now! And you too, solsticemama. Beautiful mamas!


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

DecemberSun and Solsticemomma you have beautiful babes! It is nice to put names to faces.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

:LOL i addes two new pictures too. they are the last two on the site. i will add some from our florida trip sometime soon i hope.

i am always oohhhh'ing and ahhhh'ing at our babies pictures. so sweet and beautiful.

let's see...where to begin....

language development- this is definetly the area where dd is the slowest in her development. she is talking now more, and reading aloud to herself or others, but the language is not discernable by most. she does use some words that make sense- shoes, ball, ect. other times she leaves off the beginning or end of the word- cat is "at" or "dat". i just try to affirm that she is indeed talking out loud, and be supportive of her. and repeat words that i know she comprehends. her comprehension is actually quite incredible. but for whatever reason the language is just not there yet. which is fine, bc if she is anything like her papa, she will talk non stop once she begins. :LOL of course part of the issue may be that i am not listening closely enough to discern the words dd is using- i have a hearing loss, so sometimes that makes it a bit harder.

food- dd is still getting most of her nutrients from nursing. i'd say.... 80-90%, depending on the day. she had a great dinner tonight, but that is unusual. she will have one really good meal every few days. in b/w those times, she just takes bites here and there. the foods she likes changes from day to day, although there are a few constant favorites (olives, sauerkraut, carrots, avacado).
does anyone give their dc a supplement? i know her iron is a bit low (from a wic test), so i've been thinking about it. in the mean time, i'm trying to be more dilligent about taking a multi vit. myself.









clingy ratings have been sky rocketing around here. i can leave dd w/ papa for 30 minutes, and by the end of that she is sobbing. sometimes a video will distract her for awhile, but she often sniffles while watching the video.







this makes it very hard for me to take the much needed mama time, but i'm trying to do a bit every day regardless. and the nursing, what she calls "mon-yahs", is pretty constant too, and it's not a hunger thing bc she often stops before anything starts. i'm fine w/ it all, actually, except when i hear her sobbing accross the house.







who ever said it recently, dec sun maybe?, that nursing was the best thing they have ever done- i totally agree. no matter how many times dd wants her monyahs, i am always awed by her sweet mouth suckling at my nipple, w/ my arms wrapped around her soft body. nursing is truly a gift from the goddess.

lastly- a tribal mdc mama gathering would be so wonderful. glad sm and punk got to do this together. how neat!!

brain cells running thin, must go.

love to all-
lisa


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Haeven's not doing too much talking yet, but you know what, I heard that einstein didn't talk to he was 3, so I'm not pushing her. Maybe she'll be the female einstein.

solsticemama~thank-you for reminding me that I have a strong-spirited little grrl, and that this stage shall pass. She'll definately be kicking some a$$ when she "grows up".







I hope she gets along with her sister, and they take over the world together.:LOL


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

just when i thought i would have some peace and quiet! i have been adopted by this kitten. he appreared in my house a week ago and is not leaving. i named him finnagin. he's sweet but very attention deprved! anyways..its been a long time since ive been able to keep up with this forum thing-but i got a computer finally! its nice to see that you mommas are still talking. our babies are growing up so fast! elwynn is using his potty lots now and talking talking talking. the other day he got mad because i cleaned off his little chair where he eats and it was a bit damp and he said "its WET!" and wouldnt eat till i dried it off..hehe.he also LOVEs books and always has one in his hand and his new thing is nursing and reading at the same time. he props the book on my boob and reads to his hearts content.sigh.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

hey mammas. i'm tired but well. my house is starting to take shape with my efforts. i'm loving all the pictures they are giving me goosebumps. i have no experiences with dipping and very little talking here with ruby though her understanding and awareness i continue to find incredible. mamafern i'm glad you are here. mamajaza, spirited kids are here to teach us. they got it from somewhere. and you are in transition having two children. i said something the other day to a newish acquaintance that helps me define things from time to time. i believe in the role of the parent what i can definitely and actually control with guaranteed positive outcome is making sure that my children feel loved, and having good food available. everything else is lagniappe.

having two kids is a rich life in a different way that most mothers i know comment on the difficulty of the new shift for us adults. suddenly i was protecting the newborn, the one i wondered if i would be able to love after soaking everything into the first. wow, it comes easily, and alarming since the firstborn suddenly seems large and troublesome. biologically i could not help but feel the pull to protect the littlest, even when i had declared publicly that i would do my best to treat the first the same since the new one had no idea what he was born into. it takes time to adjust for all (though much faster for the kids), and for me the best thing was to just accept further loss of control over little things. this is also when i realized that taking care of myself physically and emotionally was more of a priority than before. i can muddle through any situation with my family if i am healthy and somewhat sane. but if i was down it tended to be hard no matter how great everyone else was.

sorry so rambly, i need to take my own advice and go back to sleep.
p.s. my camera has been inoperable for awhile now. maybe now that i've mentioned it publicly i will go get it fixed.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Hi mamas! I'm still here--doing more reading than commenting. Love all the pics! Have one here of my own that I just love. Took it on Monday. Just a week earlier, for some reason, Owen seemed to dislike his big brother. It was rather hellish around here because of it too. He would walk up and hit Jacob for no reason and just completely avoid him. I'm glad that's over.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

Still hitting

I thought we were done with the hitting/scratching/pullinghair/biting becasue we had a few good days but clearly we are not done yet. I feel so terrible about it and I know my anxiety is affecting Georgia. Now she is hiting and scratching one particular kid at daycare. His mother is not happy (I am sure I would feel the same way if my kid was on the receiving end) I just thought all of this attachment parenting would lead to a happy well behaved child. I am at my wits end. We had a well baby check up yesterday and our doc suggested that since GA is so advanced verbally (she speaks in sentences and understands everything) that she might respond to some kind of reward system ie when she has a good day at dc or a good playdate she gets a sticker. He said don't tell her ahead b/c that will casue more anxiety in her just reward the good days. What do you experienced momma's think of this? I am going to try to limit the playdates to one on one instead of playgroups for a while. Nothing I can do about daycare but there are only usually 3-4 kids there total.

Another stupid worry. GA has really small feet she wears a size 4 now at 19 months. I also feel like she trips and falls a lot.

DH is away this whole week at a class! This is the first time he has been gone since she was born. I can't even say it is the first time I am alone with her b/c my sister is living with us and she is a big help with the house work. This morning I gave GA the first bath I have ever given her. That has always been his thing. In some ways I am so jealous he gets this week 'off' although I know I am not ready to leave her overnight I could really use the break.

Amy


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

abranger- i only have a sec. my dd still wears a size 4 too. actually, she can still wear a size 3. :LOL


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

thanks mona-

GA actually is wearing size 2-3 teva's still although they are a little small. She is 95% for weight and 50% for height. Weird!


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Re: Nutrition

Zachary gets pretty much ALL of his nutrition from real food. We're a grazing family, and the kids are pretty much picking at fruit and cereal all day. We have one big breakfast as soon as they get up, then they play, take a nap, and we have one more big meal around 3-ish or so, as soon as they get up. Dinnertime is usually just for DH and I, although we've had beggars hunkering over us more often while we eat as they get bigger! We call them "the vultures" because it never fails- as soon as we're eating something, we have scavengers







. The "bobby" is pretty much only for comfort now for Zachary. He switches from side to side over and over and OVER again, I think because I'm not making very much milk and he quickly empties one breast and goes on to the next.

Anyway, I wanted to tell you, Mona, that I've heard that lots of AP babies don't eat a substantial amount of solid foods until after 2. Just keep taking your prenatal vitamin while you're nursing!

About hitting: Zach and Julianna hit each other all the time. I don't do anything about it unless one of them is ganging up on the other one a little too harshly. Usually they can stick up for themselves and it works itself out. Don't have any advice, only wanted to let you know that it's normal (I think!).


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

speaking of tantrums and small sizes..elwynn has such a temper now. he is a perfect angel them WHAM hes a monster. yesterday his pappa gave him a drink and when he took it away because it was spilling elwynn bit him on the leg! he only likes to feed himself and if i try to help he knocks it out of my hand..ARG! and yesterday i weighed him and he is 18.4 lbs. he is so small for his age. i get worried then i realise he's fine and healthy..but my friends have babies at 3-4 months heavier than him and then i get all sad thinking maybe im not good at being a mom and thats why hes a shrimp..but he is healthy in every other respect so maybe he will just have a growth spurt some time...i hope....he still wants boobie to be his mostly food and i just dont feel like its good for him or me. anyone else feel like weening even though you want to keep nursing? its confusing.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaFern*
anyone else feel like weening even though you want to keep nursing? its confusing.

That's exactly how I feel. Most of the time I love it, but some of the time I don't love it,







. And lets just say that my breasts don't look like they used to... I feel guilty trying to take away my son's main form of comfort, but on the other hand I know he's getting older and I wonder if he'll ever wean? Julianna still takes a bottle to comfort herself, to fall asleep, so...? Right now the plan is to let them wean themselves. We'll take a closer look at the situation closer to their second birthdays, but for right now they're bein' spoiled!









PS- my son is a really good eater, and he's barely 20 pounds right now


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

ok, i feel a bit better about dd's weight.
i agree that size does not necessarily reveal health, but it is hard when dd's been the same weight for about 10 months!








i took the plunge today and bought some floradix (sp?)- it is a supplement. i will take it and pass it onto dd via bm. i might give some to her directly, but not sure yet.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Wow, it's been a long day.

You know, I've never thought about weaning Eli. I went to a LLL meeting today and there was lots of weaning talk and I found it a little bit sad. I've got no intention to wean him, I know that he'll eventually stop so I'm not worried about it.

Yesterday, Eli only peed once in a diaper; the rest of the day, he used the toilet!














The problem is, I can't seem to get through to him that poop goes in the toilet, too. I've tried holding him there, and showing him mine, but he just doesn't believe me.








The other day, he came to get me every time he needed to pee but when he had to poop he walked away and squatted somewhere out of sight. Any ideas?

Eli is a little small for his age, but now he's heavier than he was. He's about 25 pounds!







He's still wearing a 12-18 month size, though, he's got huge bones and a lot of muscle mass. He's also got painfully wide feet, for which I will have to special order some shoes in the fall. I'm not even sure if the preschoolians will fit, but we'll give it a shot if I can collect that much money all at once.







He's measuring a 5 6E; pretty crazy, huh?


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

eilonwy- i am the same in terns of thoughts on weaning. in fact i was wondering to myself this morning how long dd will nurse.... 3? 4? 5? and what will i do if it runs past 4? hmmmm far off thoughts for far off times... :LOL

and yes we are doing some potty learning here too. dd is very comfy w/ peeing in her little potty, as we've had it since she was 4 months old. she does great while naked. but pees/poops freely in her diaper when it's on. i guess she will start to communicate for potty (pee pee or poopies) as we continue down this journey of the potty.

gotta run...


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Lots of chatting it up today, mamas. Everyone's pics are great, such sweet babies and mamas







We're off to the PNW tomorrow for about 12 days. It's a combo holiday/work (for dh) trip. I won't have computer access.

No plans to wean anytime soon. Ds is around 29 pounds and some days eats very little in the way of solids but lots of "beuf", other days lots of both. Nightweaning tho is something that keeps coming up for me. I'll have to sit with it awhile and feel into whether it's something ds and I should do.

Shoe size is 7 wide-as-they-make-'em


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Haven't been on this thread in ages. I saw some talk about weight, etc. Ds is 26 lbs. Not sure on his height, he was measured by 3 different people in one week and they all came out differently! One was 35", one was 34 1/4" and the other was 33.4"!! hahahah. So, he's either average...or he's tall. heh. Oh yeah, and he wears a size 7XW shoe!
He's getting WAY too thin though. It freaks me out. He is so extremely picky. He doesn't like much and hardly EVER eats a veggie. I'm trying to raise him vegetarian but I'm beginning to feel desperate to get him to eat something!
And don't even get me started on 'home cooked' meals. waah! I try and try but all ds wants is frozen/store bought stuff. (ie. Meatless meatballs, spinach pancakes, meatless chicken).

I'm sleepy. Ds isn't falling asleep til late these days. He won't fall asleep in my arms anymore and it makes me SO sad. I lay down next to him in bed but he tosses, turns and climbs all over me. Until i fall asleep. rofl.

Hugs,
Liz


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

its not so much that i *want* to ween him i just get frustrated because he goes from one boob to the other and back and forth and gets mad that i dont have much milk and then he plays with my nipples and nibbles and does acrobatics till i think hes going to rip off my nipples! one night he had the hugest tantrum because i tried to put him to sleep without nursing him. BIG mistake. he yelled..oh how he yelled..and then he was so mad at me that when he finally fell asleep he was still upset i could tell and then he woke up and cried so i went to nurse him and he BIT ME HARD! i think he was still sleeping/dreaming..but i almost freaked out. he nurses a lot at night and i think that if i had night to myself id be happier nursing him in the day. i just need some space!


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## XmasEve (Jun 18, 2002)

Hi, just wanted to let you all know I was still here. And dd too, of course!


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

mammafern- I totally understand the mixed feelings. I finaly had to night wean for my own sanity. I really wanted to self wean but I just needed a break from every 3 hours nursings 24 hours a day. I also work 3 days a week so I was a complete zombie. GA now sleep from 8pm to 6 with one nursing around 4-5. I know it was the best thing for us but I still have guilt. I sometimes think the hitting is b/c of the nightweaning ....it's always the mother's fault somehow









Amy


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

abranger- couldn't get your sig line link to work ....


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

elwynn is just soOOO sensitive. and every time i try to stop nursing him at night he freaks out and sobbs like its the end of his world and then i cant do it...plus im scared that my landlady will evict me if he cries all night. i live in a basement suite..ick


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Wow its been a long time since I posted. I actually convinced Ava to sit on the potty for a while several times today. She even wre panties for a while. peed in them both times. Nothing in the potty. Oh well. I think my oldest was completely trained by this age, but then again I had nothing but time with her.

About not pooping in the potty. This is pretty common. Lilyka went on a year like this. She potty trained instantly one night (that is so her personality to go from being totlaly unintrested and then done in a matter of seconds) anyway, we weren't stressing about it because she would go get a diaper for pooping in , do her business and then come for a change.







whatever. One day she just decided it was time to poop in the potty. Hopefully Ava will suddenly PT in the next coupld of months just that easy.

Ava weighs about 26 pounds and wears a 3T in clothes. SH eis tall, (don't know how tall exactly but compared to other kids her age and how tall her sisters were at this age it appears she has gotten some latent height gene. heaven know she didn't get it from dh or me or anyone in our immidiant family. we are all a bunch of shorties) Her shoe size is about a 5 1/2. She just moved up. That would be 5 1/2 normal. not wide or narrow.

She pinches. Drives me crazy. I don't know if she means to do it but dang it drives me crazy.

Weaning - she has been down to nuring once a day for almost 6 or 7 months now. I got a killer case of mastitis and could not nurse through it. She was also sick at the time and too lathargic to care. Once we both got better she was less than intrested. lately she has been a wee boit obsesed with nursing but I don't care to start back up a again at this point. My other two were weaned around thier 2nd birthday and that just feels like a good place to stop. Also she is still tounge tied so it hurts like craziness still everytime she latches on. But she has never needed to nurse to sleep so that has been locking us into it like it did with my other two. She nurses away for a good hour every morning.

Anyway, that is all.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

I think I fixed my sign line but here it is again http://georgiarose.home.comcast.net/ hasn't been updated since march though. I will make dh get on it next week

Amy


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

wow......many of you sound just like how i felt the first and second time around. nursing ain't so fun sometimes. nighttime is hard. hitting is bizarre. why is it all my fault since i'm the mamma. i feel it this time around too but not so keen, so sharp it hurts me to the core. the difference for me now is that i have done it already and have more confidence in myself as a mamma. i urge y'all to find that fire in you, the heart the speaks what you want. the worst mistakes i've found with parenting is my regrets of not following my heart. i cannot predict the outcomes for my child. but i do have to live with myself.

the hitting. remember that they do not necessarily have the intent we adults ascribe to it. having a physical body and clumsily moving it around and trying to express ourselves is truly hard. only when an adult does the hitting it means actual violence - when one has the will power to stop it and intends to inflict harm anyway. our babies are just babies. meanwhile, it's taken me years to sort of live with it okay in this world. my three is hitting and throwing lots lately. it is worse that i'm getting irritated by it but he is really hurting ruby. i need to quite fighting it she can wail and defend herself quite nicely. i still think it is better than him holding it in internally. reed has almost completely quit the obvious though not the annoying stuff. he is almost six. i think five is the usual latest age for cessation of any hitting without any interference - i'm talking anthropologically/biologically. many kids just do it and quit. or now and then. if it makes you feel better my kids are have been commented to be quite ornery/spirited/wild by many irl mammas.

i'm finally recently okay with the fact that i'm doing a good job anyway. it's taken me almost six years. i don't want it to take six years or longer for any other wonderful mammas to realize that they are doing a fine job. say to yourself, i am the best mamma for my baby/babies. i am doing my best and they are too and everything is fine. we need teleportation devices so i can come hug y'all.

ruby is huge i have no idea how much she weighs. she wears a size eight stride rite, her and reed have the wide and thick feet. do not fret about your child being smaller. haha, i fret about them being big. people think they are older and expect better behaviour. i have enjoyed the compliment of weight associated with health but my back has not appreciated the burden so much. they will all be adult size one day.


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaFern*
i just need some space!

me too!


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

shoe size .... bigger than 5, smaller than the 6 sandals we have (her feet keep popping out, but the 5s are too small







). height ? weight? 23 lbs maybe. and she's in 2T. She'd be in 3T pants, but I sew many of her clothes and make the 2T size with room in the rise for dipes.

she's pooped in the potty a total of two times now. she tried yesterday afternoon (apparently, dh was home) and couldn't get it out. but then pooped about 10 minutes later in the diaper.

I am working a "normal" working schedule this week and miss her like crazy! Normally only about 25 hrs of my work time is when she's awake. This week it is more like 40. Plus I am working with two people on a project who don't have kids. They just don't get it. Ahh well, it will all mean nice progress towards my degree.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

We're off on our journey today mamas. My SIL had her baby last night so I think we'll be taking a short detour to go and see them before we head out. She had a little boy 8 lbs 12 oz. I haven't been around a newborn since ds was one so I imagine alot of memories and impressions will come flooding in.

Have a great couple weeks mamas. I'll be thinking of y'all


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Hi all









I haven't been getting the notices from here either







(

Anyways...

Ursula is 27 or 28 lbs (has been since she was 9½ months old)... at her 18 mths well-baby visit, she was 33½" tall... grew 2½" in 3 mths!

She wears a size 6 shoe... normal width.

Clothing? Size 24 mth or 2's... barely ever put bottoms on her though... her bottom is big... esp. in cloth diapers.

She can easily wear other bigger sizes though... she fills them out well! lol Just they might be a little longer... like, she'll want to wear her sister's clothes









Night time nursing... its getting better. Recently, she'd wake up, I swear, every 1 to 2 hrs to nurse! It was driving me crazy! But, I figured it was some sort of growth associated with that and went with it. Now, she wakes up about 3 times a night to nurse... which I can easily tolerate! lol

I can get through a good bit of this because of having an older child who never really night-weaned until I weaned her at 4 yrs old. Not sure at what time, but, eventually, she'd only wake up once a night to nurse. But, I knew she could go through the night because by the time she was 3 yrs old, we'd let her sleep over at her grandparents' house for a night at a time.

Hitting, biting, pulling hair... all things my firstborn didn't really do (she did go through about a month of biting)... Ursula does all of them. Its really driving me insane. My sister and her 2 girls were here from last Tues. to last Sat... her youngest dd is 3 mths older than Ursula and Ursula bit her 5 times in that visit!!! It wasn't like they weren't being watched either! It would happen right in front of us! Now, my niece did push, poke, and scratch Ursula first... but,... yet, Ursula seems to really love other kids... follows them around and imitates them... LOVES babies... will kiss their pictures when she sees them... its just crazy... I see this sweet little toddler of mine... then, next thing you know, she's biting others... and most of the time, its not out of anger. And, usually she doesn't hit or bite me... the only time she hits me is to get my attention. She'll sometimes hit me or grab my hand to lead me to where she wants to go.

Speech... my oldest was talking really early... singing songs by the time she was 2 yrs old. Ursula... she's just now trying to talk. However, like a lot of you have commented about your own children, her understanding is incredible!

Screaming... both of my girls love to use their lungs and vocal cords to scream... I'm SO glad I don't live in apartments! lol

Potty learning... I've been putting her on the potty in the mornings since she was like 6 wks old. Nowadays, sometimes she'll let me know she has to pee or poop. Other times, she just starts pulling at her diaper and complaining about the wetness. And, it doesn't seem to make a difference if she has on cloth diapers or is naked... because if she's naked, sometimes she'll tell me about having to potty, other times, I have to go clean up after her... good thing we don't have carpet! lol


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Here's some new pics of Ursula:
http://photobucket.com/albums/v372/alison73/Ursula/


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Eli has been wearing underpants all day today! The same pair!!







Right now, he is talking to one of his beloved maps. :LOL

Yesterday, I saw a podiatrist and I asked him where to find shoes for Eli's feet. He looked down at them, said "Wow! That's a good question!"







My son can't be the first kid on earth to have feet this wide... so what did they do, back in the day before shoes came in set sizes in a box? Will I have to take him to a cobbler and get shoes made for his feet?







: I'm almost afraid to find out what that'll cost.









I'm going to put a bunch of stuff on the trading post, hopefully tomorrow but if not then Monday morning, and then I'll put what's left on eBay in lots. Hopefully I'll be able to get Eli some shoes in the first week of September.

A question: If you're planning on having more children, is it worthwhile to sell your newborn stuff anyway? What about hand-me-downs that your kid won't be able to wear for at least three or four years, if not more? What would make you sell it, and what would make you keep it?


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Rynna--there's 7 years between my kids so I don't even bother to save anything. All of Jacob's clothes get ebay-ed when we're done with them to make some money to buy (at thrift shops and garage sales, of course) new ones.









Owen is 25 lbs wet with a full belly. He can wear some 12-18 month stuff, but usually I put him in 18 month things...a few 18-24 month, although I find that they fit fine w/a fitted dipe and cover, but fall off with a fuzzi bunz! :LOL


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

im not keeping all of elwynns baby stuff but some of it that i LOVE i am..i dont even know what i will have another.. but they are specail to me..the first little things he wore..maybe im just a sentimental fool.. but oh well


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

I've kept some things from Calista and put them on Ursula if the timing (age and season) were appropriate. The rest I hand down to my sibs' newborns







I just let my sister bring home my infant carseat and base, swing, vibrating chair, and Boppy. Had all four since Calista and they're almost still new (except the carseat... used that all the time, of course). My sis is due next month. And, I'm okay if I don't get them back. Because as I've said, I've had them over 5 yrs now and should I conceive again, I'll just buy new ones... since I guess they don't do baby showers down here past the first baby... lol


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i've ended up keeping some items from each kid which was totally learned. i keep culling it down. when i had reed my mom sent me boxes and boxes of all our baby clothes for me , my brother and sister. even the stained and ragged diapers. though i could only use some of the clothes, it is really cool seeing my kids wearing something i did or remember my brother wearing, especially since most were from taiwan and unique. so i'm sunk for now, i've got a little box in the closet. i also have about ten feltman bros. items from damen's side of the family that i can't get rid of until his sisters have a baby. i did find that some of the newborn stuff i could use for all the babies, but they have varied with size, season and personality than i expected and thus most clothes have not made three rounds. i'm painfully aware of how i sound like a rich american here.....

my kids are usually barefoot until the heat of the summer makes the asphalt ridiculously hot. ruby has been wearing her too small clog style slides all day inside though. clay has very narrow, thin feet when reed and ruby have only fit some stride rites and birkenstocks and rubber boots. maybe robeez come in wide?


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## mum5 (Apr 10, 2004)

Hi Mamas, I am sure that no one remebers me, it's been a long time since I posted on here.
I am expecting # 2 baby bean in Feb 2005, so I have been up there checking things out, kind of neglecting little dd. She is 20 months old, was born Dec 3rd and is just a little darling. We just love her so. Except when she bit my bottom they other afternoon, oh yes, and when she runs out into the road at warp speed. KWIM???

Anyway, just wanted to say hi, and hope I will be more active on this thread.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Ella-makes-3, I remember you!! How can I forget someone from RI??!!









Hope your pregnancy is going well. I'm a little envious. lol.
As for your toddler running into the street...I don't let my ds NEAR the street. He loves trucks so much that i just know he'd make a beeline for them. I have to admit, If we are going to be playing near a road, I will use a harness on ds. Yep, a harness. I don't care how it looks...as long as it keeps my precious one safe! Besides, he LOVES the fact that he can roam around 'free'. It makes him feel more in control. And it gives me peace of mind. heh heh.

Hi to everyone else! Hope you all have a good weekend!!
Hugs,
Liz


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lizc*
If we are going to be playing near a road, I will use a harness on ds. Yep, a harness. I don't care how it looks...as long as it keeps my precious one safe! Besides, he LOVES the fact that he can roam around 'free'. It makes him feel more in control. And it gives me peace of mind. heh heh.

Liz

Hey Liz








My mom used a harness for my brother when he was little (he's now 27). She said she'd get 3 different reactions from people when we'd go out. The elderly people would say, "ooooh, poor baby!







". The teens would bend down and pretend to call a dog, and other mothers with toddlers would ask her where she got it from! lol
I've never used one... but, I don't have one either... LOL I totally understand using it... in this day and age, its not just traffic you have to watch out for. And as much as our little ones seem to like to run away from us (freedom!!!)... I might have to check out finding one for Ursula. She's no longer content to be in the grocery cart... and putting her in a harness would much easier on both of us... one time, by the time I got to check out the groceries, she was screaming to get down. That lasted for at least 10 minutes... lots of groceries... and it was just me and her... she was wriggling to get down and screaming... so, I switching arms, trying to hold her in different positions... nothing was working... she wanted to get down. Now, I'm not saying that the harness would prevent such outbursts... but, it might have helped at that time... and yes, we got PLENTY of looks...


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I've used my sling as a baby harness. BeanBean actually asks for it, because he knows that I won't be holding his hand if he's in it. He feels more free, and I can breathe. :LOL I think that if I didn't have to worry about BooBah's head bouncing around, I'd just chase him, because it really doesn't bother me when I'm not hugely pregnant or holding BooBah.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Rynna, I just wanted to say that I used to call haeven boo-bah, and sometimes boobajew (baby girl?) It's funny how baby's nicknames develop. My girlfriend called her baby isaboo, as in, it's a baby... So endearing.

I've taken your recommendation on how to use the sling, casina, and it now seems to work half the time. I'm always concerned that the baby is comfortable. It's hard to bend over with the sling, or any baby carrier, actually. I have a wrap sling that I made that I really like. she is so close and comfy.

About gentian violet.... what is it made of? Does it really work for short term or long term? Cause I think my babe might have thrush.

I'm so paranoid about my little one... I've been thinking that she has a "bubble palate", tongue-tie, and now thrush. I had a LC come over to the house and she thought she might have thrush. She's gaining weight "averagely", but not enough for my comfort. Haeven gained 3.5lbs in her first month!!!!!!!!!! I want a nice fat baby like that again. Samaya gets so upset when she nurses, like she's not getting enough, or she doesn't want to nurse, or all of the above.

sorry about the rant, I just have to let it out, and my mom went away for a camping trip. I usually talk to her about all this stuff.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

oh honey, don't fret about them being comfortable in the sling. they were squished up inside your belly already. and i promise it will not affect their bone development which is the main rude comment i receive. it does take a little adjustment period for both of you.


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## Max's Mami (May 25, 2003)

Well let see.... Maxi is a chatterbox. Talking in sentances in Spanish and English. Counting to 10 in Spanish and knows all the body/facial parts in both languages. He is SUPER into trains and trucks which leads me to believe that this boy thing is inherant from birth because I didnt really introduce him - he just seems to know what they are.

He is also really into baseball and loves going to DHs games and throwing the ball himself.

Seems like he is showing signs of being ready for potty training though I am not ready so we will see









Still nursing, slinging and co-sleeping and loving it! Thats about it for us!


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaFern*
its not so much that i *want* to ween him i just get frustrated because he goes from one boob to the other and back and forth and gets mad that i dont have much milk and then he plays with my nipples and nibbles and does acrobatics till i think hes going to rip off my nipples!!

That is my life in a nutshell :LOL


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

nak
mamajazza--- do you have an over active let down by any chance? it took me months to realize that my let down released more then dd could handle. this made her love and hate nursing until i figured it out. pm me if u want.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

I wanted to agree with casina about the sling. I still can do just about anything when DS is in the sling. It sounds so inhumane, but I used to put Julianna in a sling and hang it off the back of the stroller, like if I had to take both of them to the doctor or WIC or whatever. I kept peeking in at her, but really she was quite comfortable! I always wondered if Zach could breathe while he nursed in there, but he would be happy even if he was all squished up. I always used it when I went shopping when Zach was very young, because he inevitably became hungry/tired halfway through the trip. I LOVE seeing other mamas loading groceries into their cars while nursing a baby in a sling!







When I went to The Dead concert last month I got to dance the night away because DS nursed to sleep in the Maya! And when we were coming home from our trip from WA, and our plane was delayed and we had to sit at the airport for three hours with two sleepy, hungry toddlers- Zachary fell asleep in the Maya while Grammy fed Julianna a bottle. Thank GOD for whoever invented the sling. It has been a lifesaver many a time for me, and still is!


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

We saved a lot and get rid of a lot. most of our clothes come second hand so we don't have much into them. Anything that is torn, stain, stretched or just didn't go well with cloth diapers goes. Anything we were keeping around to placate the grandparents goes. I only keep the nicest stuff, knowing that we will recieve more for gifts and that I do enjoy buying new clothes for my children occaisionally. I never once had a new outfit as a child and it drove me crazy. It isn't that much of a sacrifice for me to spend $5 on a clearance outfit. Also I was surprised to see what poor shape most of madelines baby clothes were and how much styles had changed (I know small thing but see above for why it was important. Hand me downs were never stylish in the 80s) . oNe of our favorite outfits my second never wore much because it just didn't line up but I was pumped when Ava could wear it. She wore it once and then when I was taking it off all the snaps pulled out. it was just too old, the fabric had started to break down. Also stains just get worse in storage. My younger two have a pretty steady sourse of hand me down, with quality better than we could afford so there is little reason to keep what my oldest wears. they all have an abundant amount of clothes between what little we kept and, hand me downs, and gifts. i was surprised at how much just didn't work. Mostly with my first because I was unskilled. but stuff that was way to fussy despite being cute, not working over cloth diapers, and bad fabric choices.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

Max's Mami said:


> He is SUPER into trains and trucks which leads me to believe that this boy thing is inherant from birth because I didnt really introduce him - he just seems to know what they are.
> 
> this sounds like elwynn.. he's crazy about cars..actually anything with whhels.. it makes me crazy because we dont even have a car..we walk everywhere.. and he says car about 600 times a day..and bus and weeeee means train.. he also knows all of his facial features and sometimes i say kiss mamma on the nose..on the cheeks..on the lips..on my head..my eyes... my chin and he does it..it is SOO cute.he's napping now.and he put himself to sleep!
> 
> ...


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I've gotten over my paranoia about Samaya getting enough milk. Strangley enough, it has corresponded with my mom being back home. I guess I needed to be worried about something.

mamafern~ Saw your new pictures, and what a bruise Elwynn has on his nose! (BTW, for the rest of you, Haeven did that to him. She slammed him with a doll stroller







)poor little guy. Hope to see you for the LLL meeting on the 9th


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

actually it was a wooden train..i cant believe its taken so long to heal.. the big gash is gone but the bruise is sticking around.. it must have really hurt..and ive been giving him arnica daily. oh well these things happen..he is so accident prone if haeven didnt hurt him im sure he would manage himself just fine 

jazz, i hope ill be back-what time is the meeting..maybe i can meet you in maple ridge or something. my mom was going to drive me home.. and im glad to hear that you are feeling better about the milk thing.. i always felt like that and it was hard on me..


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

:LOL BeanBean loves cars, too. He knows all the logos, I'm not even sure how since we honestly don't watch that much tv. Today he took a walk in a parking lot with his grandmother and was running up to each car .."Ford! Pontiac! GMC! Olsmobile! Jeep!" and so on and so forth. :LOL He had the time of his life. :LOL

I was seriously considering selling all of the kids' outgrown stuff, because we're totally strapped for cash. Instead, I'm going to end up sending most of it to my SIL, who's due in December. Still, I'm going to get rid of a bunch of other stuff around here, like clothing *I've* outgrown. I'm losing weight, but I don't think I'll be a size 10 again any time soon.







We also have more picture frames than any one family could use. :LOL


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

aah, the boyhood comes out. i have a friend who swears her son bit his sandwich into a shape of a gun no matter how much she worked to keep the image and concept out of his life.

the sling is more comfortable the tighter it is because the higher they are the easier it is on your back. having said that, i wear my newborns lower. and the shoulder part is more comfortable spread over the shoulder even though it will block your arm from going all the way up. remember to spread the lower part by the baby going around your waist. the bigger the band around your back the more supportive and comfortable the sling. and the more i wore the sling, the less i fretted about the baby.

meanwhile i'm enjoying my girl so much i just want to make more females to have around. but of course i can't imagine a different girl from ruby. i guess it would take having more girls for me to know how much of what she does is female and how much is her. she is like a different breed of child altogether, even with her personality so akin to reed's.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Casina~I just looked at your pics.... I love the one of your son sitting in the tree (spying) wearing a paper bag...







: They truely look like "wild" children. I hope you take that as a compliment.









The reason I asked about what kind of sling you use, is because the two that I have "inherited" are not the "maya wrap" style. They are both sewn at the ends, hard to explain... I think I might make/buy a better one, I actually get so annoyed with the ones I have because of them being tapered and sewn at the ends.

I've been meaning to ask you mamas, since we seem to be a little tribe now, what else do you do on MDC? Do you spend a lot of time reading posts, or just catching up on old ones (what I do) ...?


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

jasanna, i'm sorry i totally forgot to answer that question. i started on the nojo. it was easy to acquire. the padding made me less worried in the beginning, and the adjustability helped. we quickly outgrew it. i started making slings. i make a ring sling and a pouch and have fooled with the designs and fabrics and made some for others. the pouch is tricky to fit but loveable if it does fit perfectly. i recommend it for once the child is a certain size. i have friends that swear by the pouch no matter what, which sounds like what you have. the good thing is that you cannot fool with it and it is the least bulky and you never worry about it slipping and changing size or getting loose on you. the bad thing is that you cannot fool with it and i had my newborns laying nursing while after about six months they can sit up in it. then it is even more comfortable. but again, i have watched others sling their newborns upright and nurse.
i'd be glad to make you a sling or send you one of my used ones. how tall are you? the one i use the most now is a pouch with fifties housewives on it. i find the print irresistably ironic. unfortunately it is not fit to market because of the way fabric is....

i'm proud of my wild animal children. they are passionate aggressive and wholeheartedly loving. the other day reed took his kung fu uniforn test and he can do a full split sideways and chinese, and do a backbend from standing.
i need to get my camera working! but it is usually dh's territory. old habit. reed decided to take the bag off and the entire daycare was yelling at him because he was naked and ten feet up in the tree. the site has deleted my naked pictures before so i don't bother anymore. that's why there are no funny nursing pictures either. one day i'll get it all figured out, though i'm not sure about having my own website.

i'm really glad you, mamajaza, and mamafern are here. it is part of why this thread is so interesting. i hope you can work out the haeven and elwynn dynamic. by that i mean that you two can be peaceful about it even if the kids aren't. it is tough since you are family and need each others community. i have been on both sides of the aggressor and the attacked with reed at that age and reading your posts i can remember how it felt either way. it sucked feeling helpless and frustrated and pained that somehow as a mamma it was my fault and trying to figure what to do to fix it. especially when i needed the company of the mammas. and parenting the aggressor i find harder because i cannot take a moral stance. generally it has been easier to retreat or to meet at public spaces so there is less of a territory issue, or in a group gathering. but sometimes it got to where i couldn't be friends for awhile, at least in person. i have a friend i dearly love, one of the best mothers i know, that i cannot visit with the way i would like because our kids are so intense and it has happenned repeatedly with different kids since we have three each. i hate to even suggest it could happen that you would need to take a break from seeing each other if it gets too hard, but i think y'all need each other and it is better that the hitting does not divide you. i have dealt with it too many times. they are just babies. what the children do is not a reflection of you. how you react is the reflection of you.

done preaching.







:


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I do totally blame myself for haeven's aggressiveness. And when she is like that, then I tend to get angry at her, which I know totally doesn't help the situation. I do notice that haeven will be better when we are at the park, or at a LLL meeting. I guess it is because of the "neutral territory" thing. It's funny when you think of it like that. But they are little animals, like we all are.

I have to ge to bed. Morning comes early.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
I've been meaning to ask you mamas, since we seem to be a little tribe now, what else do you do on MDC? Do you spend a lot of time reading posts, or just catching up on old ones (what I do) ...?

I belong to quite a few tribes, so I check those first. Then I go looking at other posts or start a few of my own; I've got loads of questions which come up, and MDC is the perfect place to ask because there's bound to be someone here who's done it before me. Sometimes no one can help (no one seems to have a child with feet as wide as BeanBean's, for example) but more often than not I get a few suggestions. There are forums I actively avoid (vaccinations), forums I browse in occasionally but rarely post in (diapering) and forums where I frequently feel the need to respond (homeschooling). I do not lurk in places where I don't belong (conservative tribe) but I do lurk in places where I don't necessarily post (birth & beyond).

I have a Maya sling which I







and a pouch sling which I also







. The pouch is fleece, so it's really warm and I carry BooBah in it cradled. She sleeps like a doll, it's adorable! The thing I like best about the pouch is that it's so simple Mike can use it all by himself; we just move the snaps so that it's bigger, and voila! He has a really hard time adjusting the Maya for some reason. Still, I'd love to get another Maya, because I end up wearing mine all the time and well, it gets spit on and pooped on and all kinds of stuff. :LOL I also want to get a water sling someday, to hold BooBah in the shower.


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

On MDC I belong to the September mommies due date club. I check out Toddlers first and then I head for the due date club. Also I poke around in Activism from time to time. I also poke around in babywearing and diapering. I have posted in Extended Breastfeeding looking for some advice. Every now and then I will post on the Conservative thread in Activism but not very often.

I would like to get an adjustable pouch so my husband can have an easier time of baby wearing. He tried the Maya Wrap ring sling and hated it. I think he would like the pouch if it is adjustable. I have two non-adjustable pouches that won't fit him. He prefers the backpacker. I just have a hard time convincing myself to pay the $56 for a KKAFP. I also want to purchase an Ellaroo. The wraps looking interesting.


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

I forgot to mention that I am starting to lose bits and pieces of my mucous plug. I am wondering if this will be an August baby instead.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

hi ladies, we are back from our "vacation"









I have so much I want to share with you, but dd is needing some lovin' so I'll leave it to later.








to you all, and I'll be back - I read all the posts I missed yesterday, so I'll post my own update tonight, hopefully..


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

casina, have i ever mentioned that i love your hair?







i have the same haircut, it's fabulous! :LOL


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

hjohnson~ the ellaroo is the wrap-style, right? I have made one like that... it's very easy. you could do that too, if you wanted to save some $$.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

:LOL speaking of hair, i cut off 10 inches the other day for locks of love. WOW


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

That's awesome! My sister cut off 14 inches for Locks of Love a couple months ago. Her hair is now shoulder length and looks great. My hair is above my ears and will probally stay that way.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

really rynna, you shaved your head? for me it is so durned practical i can't live with it otherwise for now. i never have to look in the mirror except to put in contacts and inspect my teeth. the main comment i get from women is that they worry they would be masculinized, or that their husbands would hate it. i don't have to worry about feeling my feminimity (sp?) in public when i'm surrounded by children and nursing all the time.

it seems like a haircut year for everyone i know. except my kids. they want all of their hair. i do too until i can't see their eyes.

generally men do not need the adjustments since their chest is the same shape all the way down and there's no chance of nursing in the sling. and hate the tail. it's an interesting market since i actually see more men carrying the babies than the women. one day i'll sell some man slings.....


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

yeah, i've shaved all my hair off before but this is the first time that i've seriously prevented it from growing back. i just love having it super short with the kids; eli can't pull it anymore, and i'm no longer finding my kids wrapped up in my hair (it was fairly long before i shaved it off).

i worried briefly that Mike wouldn't like it, but it got to a point where i just didn't care; i was too hot, and too irritated, and my hair was too much of a pain in the neck (literally). one evening i got out of the shower, couldn't find a comb and i said "honey, i'm shaving my hair off right now." i cut two long braids off for my kids and then just started cutting, long strands of curls flying. mike helped a bit, and beanbean stood by, clapping and saying "yay!" for some reason, he thought it was really cool. :LOLonce it was about 2 inches long, we got the clippers and buzzed me. it's been quite liberating, really. i've been running the clippers over my head twice a week ever since, and i don't think i'll let it grow back until my kids are older.

oh, mike really enjoys it, btw. he loves the way it feels and the way i feel about it. it's a good thing.







i highly recommend it. i never thought it would make me feel masculine... i guess beacause i've done it before and i knew it'd be cute.







i actually feel more feminine than ever, because i feel cleaner with no hair.


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

tribes ---> this thread, the running mamas thread, I also visit getting started breastfeeding (cause i think they need the support), crafts, and working mamas. I rarely visit the toddler section because ya'll always answer those questions for me.

"i jumpin" is the phrase for the day. Lots of giggles from mom and baby.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

Mammajazz-

I totally understand what you are going thru right now with the hitting. I am out of my mind. I blame myself everyday. Maybe it's because I nightweaned her, maybe it is because I work 3 days a week...... I have been beating myself up about this for 2 months now.

I have been reading Easy to Love Difficult to Disipline and How to Talk so Kids Will Listen .... and really trying to use those techniques. I also found a yahoo group for AP Discipline where I have so far only been lurking. I am trying to be very consistant with her and to watch closely to notice when she is getting tired etc.

I hope this passes soon.

Amy


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

some kids just tend to hit. some bite. some of us get more frustrated easily. some of us are not as flexible. when we get tired and hungry we get cranky. it also wore me out to try to make sure my kids are in tip top form for socialization and just tried to make more understanding situations. it is normal, especially with a toddler that is just starting to use the skill of speaking. it is a shame that a baby hitting is so taboo that we get riled up which can sometimes feed the actions into something else. i've also had to deal with different reactions to a boy hitting as opposed to a girl. people tend to be extra alarmed when it is the boys, like that means they will be wife beaters. i believe there is a correlation between the acting out and their energy being lower since they can't handle the situation more appropriately. i have to believe they are doing their best since i am. then there is the quandary of it happenning because i am an open loving parent. of course if i made my children submissive and fearful of me they would not do it. but i think it is important that they feel free to show their emotions with me, and it takes much work and time to show how this can be done civilly. children naturally want to please us. but they have to have the skills as well.
observing and preventing gives me courage. i tackle the situations outside of the home first. i want my kids to observe and act as expected in different situations (notice i'm not saying that i have that yet.....) they are more comfortable at home and it is more confusing for them how much is other people;s desires and my own. these not yet two year olds do not have the impulse control to stop and decide to say i want it instead of hitting for a toy. i do think that consistent 5 second timeout of picking them from the situation right as it happens can show some kids that you are interrupting something you find inappropriate, and perhaps curb it from becoming a habit.
generally in a group situation the kids do work it out. the kids learn who to avoid and such. it is really just harder for us adults. we are not all committed to beating the sin out of them anymore. but we still tend to want the same type of rigid behaviour since that is all we have ever seen.

knowing my child and myself has been the most helpful in the end. having confidence in myself has only benefited my family.
sometimes i had to use bandaids just to get myself out of it the funk. dress my kid silly. put stickers on his forehead. being around older children has helped me too. i remember feeling much better in general after seeing a six year old cry tears because he stepped on some little thorns and his mom standing up holding him like a baby. spending energy worrying about what i've done wrong as a mother is energy i wasted that i could have used in showing my love.

meanwhile, i gotta get off and nuh-nurse!


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

Well ladies, I am 1 1/2 cm dilated and 50% effaced. I am starting to make some progress.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Thank-you Casina for more wise words of experience. I should spend a lot less time worrying about what has happened, and more time loving... which seems like all I do, as my house is a M_E_S_S.

Today Haeven threw the cordless phone at my little 5 week old baby, and it got her in the head. My mom was holding her, so she doesn't have a quick reactions that I have. There is now a bump on her little head, and it broke the skin too. So, I put haeven in the bathroom for a time out. I hope she is learning.

And when she hits elwynn, I put her in time-out as well. It seems to work so far. because when she comes out, she doesn't fight with him for a while.

We went to a LLL meeting last night, and it went well. Babies played nicely. moms got to chat.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

well ladies, i keep thinking im going to have teh time and energy to update you all on the latest here, but it just ain't happening. My energy is so low, and dd so demanding







what's a mama to do. all i want to do is sit and :cry but i dont even have time for that. this has been the worst summer of my life, save for meeting Rose in Cali. That was like a beautiful dream, where for once I wasn't explaining myself, or my child, or my choices. I can't wait for her to get back so she can post some of the pics. It was an instant connection on everyone's part, and for me at least, it was like cool water on a hot day. much needed and oh so refreshing.

I feel so tired and lost these days and this summer has been difficult for us in so many ways. Now we are home and its just us three, I thought that it would be better. Instead I just feel empty and used up. I have to find my spirit again. I was feeling so invincible this spring, but alas I was more fragile than I knew.... All it took was six constant weeks of naggin and me explaining myself and defending myself to erode away all the confidence I had as a mother. It all came to a head yesterday, when I actually spanked my daughter.





















Boy that really woke me up.... I handled it really well, and of course loved on her and told her that i was wrong and mamas are never suppose to hit their babies. It really showed me how out of it I am though, it seems my anger and frustration is ruling my brain right now, I have to find my way back to peace and serenity, but im not sure how. Im trying to find someone to watch dd for just a few hours (she's nursing so much right now) so i can have a few hours just to concentrate on me and my long neglected needs but dh is working like crazy and my mom turned me down. really there is no one else.

i feel so low and like all i have worked for is wasted.

i would give just about anything to meet any one of you ladies for a nice cup of hot tea. I know you could ground me once again.

See the trip to Cali really sucked. The people we stayed with (dh family) unbeknownst to us didnt want a toddler in their house. We felt unwelcome from the get go. They were so disrespectful of her needs and when we tried to assert them they basically told us we dont know what we are doing because we are young and she is our first. Every night we had an argument because we refused to put her in the crib they borrowed (even though we told them before we went out there not to borrow it, she sleeps with us) We got the CIO speech countless times, they were so uncomfortable with my bf and even made comments about how "third world" it is that I squat down to play with dd etc. !!!! (a habit i picked up from the bradley books i read when pregnant) it was awful. And i feel so guilty because i didnt fight more for her. They refused to bend their schedule to meet her needs and i feel awful that i didnt stand up to them more.

Needless to say we won't be doing that again. We only went this time because mil wanted us to, and paid our way.

Anyhow, that's all from me.

P.S. yeah Heather, you are moving right along. You will be in my thoughts









P.P.S well i've been sitting here thinkign about how i just rained on all y'alls parades adn thought I should say something nice now







at the airport when we were coming home, dh had laid dd down to change her diaper, and she said her first sentence : "I want Mama!" talk about heart melting! So yup, I got to do the honors! :LOL


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

heather, i'll be thinking about you, and birthing......aah, so many families growing, so commonplace yet so fascinating the very details of such a change.....

punk, i am so very sorry you had to go through all this. it sounds so much like me in taiwan and such dealings with my parents where i've been directly accused of doing a bad job, and we had to live with them twice in the past five years. my dad won't even speak of my homeschooling and is just pretending that it is not happenning. when you say we in your post, i infer that your dh is in some kind of agreement with you about how you are mothering.....

it is very normal to run low on energy and take it out on our kids. they are our most familiar companions. i did it tonight when i stupidly took the kids to the library because they begged and it was really too late for them. this is a library that we go to all the time so the employees know us very well for better or worse. well clay was yelling and climbing on a bench dropping a dvd. too much. i pulled him off more roughly than usual and he yelled "you're hurting me!". actually now that i think about it i wasn't technically rough but i was mad and he sensed it so in the end it is the same? well this was right where everyone could see and hear and suddenly i was onstage. fortunately i was too tired to be embarrassed and know enough that when a child is truly hurt all the time, he doesn't bother to yell about it like that so whatever everyone thinks, that is theirs to own but not mine. but i still felt bad that i made a bad decision to go there and was so reactionary.

the way i see it, it is all about energy. you need it for yourself, so that you can use it positively for others. i'm sure i've said this before: i'm working on using my energy positively. it starts with sleep and food intake and love. the physical parameters i could go on and on.

and then there's the me part. for me this means limiting the running commentary in my head. forgiving the things that happenned. often this means i have to forgive icky people and their icky behaviours, because i believe they are animals just like me in the world that are doing their best like i am. even if i was hurt i have to find a way to laugh or love parts of these people. the forgiveness is a release for me to go on and quit feeling mad and violated. it does not change the situation or how others behaved, but it always makes me feel better and able to continue free. when i'm upset or judgmental about others i am just as easily upset and judgmental about myself and this is a draining cycle. i have to find the way to jump on another track and forgiveness is usually a big piece.

this also means forgiving yourself for however you have behaved that you are not feeling right about. know that your child's memory is limited and that they are amazingly forgiving. what they remember is them feeling loved, not whether you argued in their favor. they just feel that as distress.
it is okay to not know everything about being a mamma! how unendingly boring would that be!

when my little brain and everything in the world gets overwhelming, i have to make myself do a simple minded thinking exercise and this vastly conserves my energy. i describe in my head what is happenning with no judgment and think of nothing else, and just act accordingly. it takes practice quelling the unneeded thoughts but they can be stopped. it is also important to have no value in the statements like feelings and right and wrong. i'm always amazed that my body will just do the appropriate responses without me consciously talking to myself about it. it would go something like this:

there's oatmeal on the counter.
reed is half naked.
clay wants more ice.
i hear my phone.
ruby dumped water.
i'm playing cards.
i'm nursing.
reed is yelling.
i'm drinking chocolate soymilk.

in the course of this my body may have done something or ignored the situation and then moved on. i tend not to talk but rather nod and smile or shake my head and make a noise. i say okay, or sure, just to acknowledge without either positive or negative. i stare out the window. i observe the smoothness of their skin and the tones in their voices. sometimes i make myself do this and it lasts for maybe thirty minutes and it will refresh me for the day. i can do it when no other adults are around and the computer and phone ignored. i am learning the skill of being less conscious, and it has really benefited me. it keeps me in the moment.

much love,
casina


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Punk! I wish you were closer--I'd give you a real hug!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

punkmomma and all mommas: know that you ARE a good momma..sometimes we aren't at our best and do things that we wish we hadn't done, but life is for learning and the only way to learn is to experience situations and grow from them..i think that it is so important as a mother not to push yourself too far..not to expect 180% all the time. sometimes WE need to curl up and remember what it was like to be a little child having all of our needs tended to-instead of us tending to the needs of our whole world!

sometimes all i need is to turn some good music on and pick up elwynn and sing and dance with him..the little playful things-being silly, laughing till you cry..releasing all of the stuff you have to put away to be the good strong mother you have to be in this big scary world..its so important for us mommas not to get so caught up in mothering that we forget to mother ourselves.

casina thank you for your words!

elwynn has used the potty 2 days in a row to pee.. but no poops yet.

they grow so fast!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

for the third day in a row, BeanBean has awakened with clean, dry pants! what a big boy!! just a little more effort getting poop into the potty and we'll have an officially potty learned boy.














now the underpants problem is much more pressing... *sigh* I guess i should think of the positives, though; BeanBean will be able to wear 12 month sized shorts for the rest of the summer, i won't have to think about buying large fuzzi bunz unless BooBah needs them in the future, etc.

it's just so cool to watch him. he woke up this morning a bit early (probably because he had to pee!) took off his own diaper, sat down on the potty, peed, stood up, emptied the potty into the toilet and flushed it, all by himself. then he clapped and said "Yay!"







what a cutie! i'm totally impressed with him.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eilonwy*
it's just so cool to watch him. he woke up this morning a bit early (probably because he had to pee!) took off his own diaper, sat down on the potty, peed, stood up, emptied the potty into the toilet and flushed it, all by himself. then he clapped and said "Yay!"







what a cutie! i'm totally impressed with him.

omg how cool! dd has become a little less interested in the potty since it has become more of a "thing" to use it. i don't put any pressure on her, but since i've been verbally saying "the potty is for pee pee and poopies" i guess it is less fun to use.







but she does pee in it at least once a day. unfortunately she likes to then empty it onto the floor, or on her head. :LOL


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

im with you on the underpants thing eilonwy! elwynn has no hips.. unless he is wearing a cloth diaper none of his clothes fit him! they all just slide down his skinny waist till they hit the floor.. he prefers being naked anyways, but still! he is happy peeoing in the potty, but he still wont poop! oh well i wont force it. i just cant wait till i dont have to wash poopy diapers anymore!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

BeanBean just pooped on the potty, all by himself!!!!



































I'm just so unbelieveably excited! He just walked over, sat down and went, no prompting and no help. Hooray! If he keeps this up, he'll probably be completely out of diapers by the end of next week. OMG, I never thought I'd be this excited about poop! :LOL


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Yay Eli!

Owen has been using the potty all day today. Actually, the toilet--he wants nothing to do w/the potty chair because we don't use it. That's ok. He's doing very well. I don't think I was necessarily ready to potty train already, I'll go with it!


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## ramblinrose (Feb 12, 2003)

Caeley is starting to use a lot of words..she basically mimics almost everything you say back!! And still bf!!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

My girl has peed in the potty a few times the past few days. She is going to the door of the bathroom, and we open the door and put her on the toilet, and she goes! She isn't going to waste any time on the little potty. She wants to go straight to the big one. YAY!

congrats eliyahu! You're becoming a big boy!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

what a happy time this is for us mommas! go babies go!

elwynn and i are heading out for an adventure across vancouver island to denman island for a weekend of camping fun..im pretty excited. i feel like im barely home these days, but its summer..so i should just enjoy it and not complain! i hope you all have a wonderful weekend


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
My girl has peed in the potty a few times the past few days. She is going to the door of the bathroom, and we open the door and put her on the toilet, and she goes! She isn't going to waste any time on the little potty. She wants to go straight to the big one. YAY!

congrats eliyahu! You're becoming a big boy!


BeanBean likes to pee on the toilet, but I think he prefers the little potty because he can do it by himself. It's just so adorable to watch him pick the potty up and dump it into the toilet so he can flush! :LOL


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Zachary has stopped asking to use the potty. He used to let us know when he had to poop by grunting and squatting right in front of us, like he was asking in his own little body language. Now he likes to sneak off and go in his diaper. It must be a control issue.

When DH or I tell him something he doesn't want to hear ("No, don't stand on the table", or "Do you want to go poop on the potty?") he says "Bye bye!" to us in a get-out-of-my-face-and-leave-me-alone tone of voice. We try not to laugh, but it's pretty funny when a 20 month old is already talking back and telling his parents to stay out of his business...









He's going through a MAJOR tantrum stage. He screams about everything. I try to get down to his eye level and say something like "I don't want to hear screaming/ I can't understand crying, you need to talk", and if he continues to scream and stomp his feet we sit him in the Time Out chair. It's helps to take a deep breath, put him in time out, and just ignore him for a minute. Then when the tantrum is over, we have hugs and a nice peace for a few minutes until it starts all over again. I guess it has to do with the other foster baby being here- we've been stuck in the house for two weeks, and I think the kids are getting bored. I don't blame them, I can't wait to take this baby home on Sunday night. Not that it hasn't been a pleasure to take care of him, but I just want my normal routine back, YK?

Another porblem is sleep. Ugh... Zach wakes up about 80 times a night screeching this bone chilling, blood curdling, horrible sound, thrashing and tossing around, just crying. I have to grab him and calm him down, get him to latch on, and just as I'm about to fall asleep, he'll wake up again, pop off the breast, and just scream. I have no idea why he's doing this. Maybe dreams, maybe just yucky vibes coinciding with the tantrums? Last night I was tempted to just put him in his room, shut the door, and not go in there until morning. But I knew that I didn't really have the heart to let him scream all night by himself, so I let him scream in bed with me and keep me up. I have horrible insomnia too, so if I have to fully awake from a deep sleep it takes me FOREVER to get back to sleep, even if I'm really tired. I hate it. I hope he starts sleeping better again soon. He was only waking once, maybe twice, a night until just recently!







:

On a happier note, he's finally started to ask for breast milk







. He used to just ask for "bobby", but now he'll say "Mone? Bobby mone?" while lifting my shirt. He still asks for 'mone' in a cup, and he knows the difference, so I think it's cute. I ask him "Is that good bobby milk?" and he'll smile that nipple-in-the-mouth smile and nod and say "Mmm Hmm!" :LOL

Sending peaceful labor vibes to Heather









Hope the rest of you mamas have a nice day


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

And since the first post was so long, I thought I'd make a second one to reply to punkpreincessmama's post...

First of all







&







to you, mama. I too wish that you mamas were closer so I could have some support IRL. But it helps me more than you know to be able to come here and vent, and get awesome advice...

I felt THE SAME WAY AS YOU when we went on our vacation for 3 weeks in WA. First of all, we were in a new place with w new routine, and having 3 kids adjust to all that is really difficult. We were hopping around here and there, visiting relatives and all that, so it was just a huge change that upset the harmony we had going. No one outisde our immediate family really understood that. They just thought our kids were brats, plain and simple. They didn't take into consideration that they kids were in a new place, a new environment, experiencing different weather, around new people, without the comfort of their own toys and a place to just explore and get into stuff and unwind. We were staying with my brother, who is a bachelor, and still parties, and still has these ideas in his head about how HIS kids will and will not be- you know how kidless people talk- "MY kids will NEVER do that/ MY kids won't do this/ MY kids would never act like that!!!" Yeah frickin' RIGHT! I don't care if my kids are extra whiney when they're uncomfortbale getting used to a new place, I don't care if my toddler wants to nurse at a fancy restaurant, I don't care if Crystal is handicapped and can't hear and gets into stuff, I don't care if my kids get up at the crack of dawn and wake everyone up screaming and running around- THEY'RE KIDS! What do you expect? I had to stick up for myself, and my kids, more than a time or two while we were on vacation, and it was very draining. My brother and I have always been VERY close, and we kind of had a falling out over my family. He basically said he couldn't wait for us to leave because all the kids do is cry and all DH and I do is fight about the kids. I said I was sorry to disrupt his life, and that we wouldn't be staying with him next time we visit. I know he felt bad afterward and we haven't talked about it since, but I still feel very hurt by his feelings. I guess I might have been the same way if I didn't have any kids and someone with two toddlers came to stay with me for such a long period of time... I too had all these preconceptions about how I would raise my kids and how they would and would not act, and then I had kids and REALITY set in and I realized that they are PEOPLE with their own likes and dislikes and personalities, and you can't control every aspect of someone else's life...

Anyway, I wanted you to know that we all go through this at one point or another. By choosing to follow out instincts regarding parenting, and putting our child's needs in front of others' (or our own), we look like pushovers to old-fashioned mainstream people. But I really don't care anymore. My kids will be happy, confident, and intelligent because of the way *I* (and DH) parent, not because we listened to people tell us to keep them on a military schedule and cry it out and be seen and not heard!

Sorry this is so long, I get a little bitchy over this subject! Hope you feel better soon...


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## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

Hi
don't have time to read all posts. just wanted you to know we are okay. we are in a shelter, but doing good. more later ~Anna


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

s lilmiss....


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Anna, you and your girls are in my thoughts, and my prayers. If I was in Tucson I'd offer up my house to you! We have a camper parked on our property (my FIL's), so if worse comes to worst you can come stay with us. It's still in AZ (Apache Junction), even if it's far from your family... Hope you are all well!


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Thanks for all the lovin' and wise words mamas. I am feeling better, today I finally feel like I have some of my energy back so that is a good sign. I have been focusing on my family - getting us back in our grove so to speak, reconecting on our own levels. I haven't been able to have a break and dd has been up later than usual and waking a lot at night. So I really haven't had any time to myself. The nice thing though is that each day dh has been trying to do a little something for me - a shoulder massage, a cup of hot tea, etc. and that has really nourished me.









Lil Miss, I'm glad you checked in, I've been thinking about you and your girls, please let us know if we can do anything at all to help.

hmmm, heather has been awfully quiet these past few days


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
when you say we in your post, i infer that your dh is in some kind of agreement with you about how you are mothering.....

Yes, we are very much in sync with our parenting. he is absolutely my biggest supporter.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
it is very normal to run low on energy and take it out on our kids. they are our most familiar companions.

so true...

and thank you so much for your other words of advice.


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## mum5 (Apr 10, 2004)

Hi Mamas, just checking in to say hi. I did not read all of the posts, as I am too tired, and anxiously waiting for a nice warm bath. Hopefully it will help me sleep!!

DecemberSun, for those reasons exactly I don't want to stay with friends/family when we go to Florida to visit.
My best friend thinks that I am wierd for wanting to stay in an hotel, and has told me that on 2 occasions. Of course she is single, has a pool ( no gate !!!! ) parties hearty, and is quite loud, which doesn't make for ideal sleeping conditions for dd, who is a very light sleeper.
I have tried to explain to her that it would be better for us, but she doesn't understand.
I feel you pain, sorry for the evnt, but I sure do feel better!!!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

anna.


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

I am still around. I have just been quiet because I was attending a scrapbook convention yesterday and today. My newest addiction. No baby yet. I had some contractions last night that weren't very consistent and that was about it. Christopher lately loves to say "baby" and hug my belly. I wonder if he is starting to understand a little. He had fun with DH yesterday and today but DH is in hotwater for not doing any laundry or dishes.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

leah, i have dealt with the persistent screaming at night with reed. i'm so sorry you are exhausted. in hindsight i wonder if he had a bellyache, or just needed to pee and was holding it. that's what clay does and i have to make sure he pees before bed or he thrashes all night. but i remember not being able to do much about it at the time for reed, and just holding on to my own sanity to comfort him. sometimes i just thought he needed to let out the stress he felt. i have no words of wisdom here. except that i have for the most part forgotten it and he seems unharmed by it in the long run. maybe some earplugs can soften it for you and slow the adrenaline rise. maybe sleep him propped up a little, definitely get a fan for white noise, and maybe a nightlight. maybe an hour or two of yes answers from mamma during the day. perhaps you can target when he sleeps the longest and catch up there. for me that sometimes means sacrificing my pseudoalone time and going to bed when they do since that is their longest period. another idea i will throw out randomly is that maybe he needs to go to bed two hours earlier. my kids need to go to bed before they appear exhausted. i don't know zach's patterns though, and i'm only an expert on my own family.

reed turned 6 thursday. i realized that i finally accept him totally. i'm regretful that it took me all this time, but i'm not going to mourn it too much and i'm just glad i've hit this point. i'm seeing even more how he has benefited from my wild animal parenting and how different he really is from most children, including my other two. still my biggest teacher, my firstborn. my little much more flexible kids are lucky for that. i would have been much harder on them and a very different parent if it weren't for him forcing radical changes. i'm growing up too.

i've been feeling overwhelmed so i didn't do a lick of picking up or cleaning or cooking for the week, after religiously getting things set up every night after the kids got to bed. since i'm the only one doing it, it is now pretty bad so i'm going to go start cleaning.

anna, i wish i could open my home to you too. i'm starting to really crave starting an intentional community again.

punk, i'm so glad you have a dh feeding you so well.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Mariah does the all night scream fest occasionally too. Sometimes I am alble to figure it out (she is super sensitive to teething pain for one thing) Sometimes I can only hold her and nurse her and wait. It is the hardest parenting I do, being nice all night long, with the crying grinding on my nerves, and only wanting to sleep. Last night was a very difficult night, she wanted to nurse all night, and whenshe would finally falll asleep and I would try to roll over she would immediately wake up crying again. I had to sleep with my breast touching her, and even still she was up every hour or two to nurse again. When dh got in (he worked teh overnight shift) around 7am, she finally rolled over and slept for two straight hours, even though I was no where near her!! So now I feel like she was just missing her daddy.

Anyhow, I love that term "pseudoalone time" Casina - :LOL it's so true.... adn I have't cleaned at all either this week. I finally did some sweeeping and a bit of laundry yesterday but only because I had to. I love your intentional community idea, and if we lived in your neighborhood, we could help eachother clean, which i imagine is much nicer than cleaning alone









Speaking of birthdays, I can't believe my little one will be 2 so soon. I am amazed at how fast the time has gone, adn how different she is from the day I first saw her....

I think I have finally found my tribe with you mamas.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

well, pseudoalone means i'm still on call while everyone's asleep, and dh is puttering around. i'n just not able to relax with him around, compared to when he is not here. that's what i get for having an intense marriage?


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I just want to remind you moms that most mothers would not put up with their baby keeping you up all night. You should be commended on your parenting choices. You will raise healthy well-adjusted (though adjusted to a different wavelength) children and then adults.


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## sahm1 (Aug 14, 2004)

Hi everyone, I am new here, my name is Nicole and my little girl Brianna will be 20 months old tomorrow! I am so glad I found this group, it seems like a great group of moms!


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Thanks for the







MamaJazza. How are you doing these days?








Bri's Mom, nice to meet you


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

how am I doing? well, I'm becoming comfortable with tandem nursing, enjoying the summer, doing diapers, ...

speaking of diapers, I have a problem, maybe someone would have a good suggestion.
I'm tempted to try disposable diapers for night time right now. The fuzzi bunz I use leaked last night on my wool quilt which can't be washed. yuck. I stuff the FB with hemp fleece. I just bought flece scraps, they're not "joey bunz" or whatever you call them. What should I do?

gotta run...


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Jaza, BooBah's Fuzzi Bunz leaked at first, because her thighs weren't big enough for the leg holes. I sized down and didn't have that problem anymore. If it's not skinny thigh syndrome, you might try a wool soaker over the FB to prevent leaking.

I'm having a lot of fun tandem nursing, except that BeanBean is nursing more than his sister. A lot more! It doesn't bother me that he's nursing so much, but it does bother me that his sister isn't getting as much milk. He hasn't stopped eating, either... he's just added these nursings to his daily routine. It's very frustrating because there are times when his sister needs to nurse and she'll have to stay on the breast for 45 minutes just to get enough, because BeanBean has already flattened the boob. He's not gaining weight, either, just eating and nursing constantly. Anyone else have a toddler suddenly step up and start nursing more than a newborn?


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

He's not nursing as much as a newborn but he is definitely interested in taking up nursing again. Last week I was wearing a shirt minus the bra and Christopher lifted my shirt up and latched on. I wasn't expecting it at all. LOL! For the most part he stopped nursing at 16 months with an exception here and there. I have a feeling he will start nursing again once his brother gets here. I hope so! I was hoping to tandem nurse when I found out I was pregnant.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eilonwy*
Anyone else have a toddler suddenly step up and start nursing more than a newborn?


That would be my Zoomba. Now I can't say for sure she is nursing as much as a newborn, since I don't have one around to compare her to, but she is nursing A LOT. She must be burning calories all the time because she constantly has something in her mouth, she snacks and nurses constantly. And she's still tiny :LOL.

MamaJaza, I had the same problem with my FB. Her thighs were too small for the Med but I couldn't stuff the small enough to hold all the pee (we used them for night diapers) I eventually just changed her to a diff. dipe for night time. FWIW, we tried disposables when she was too small for the Small FB and those would leak too. The girl just pees and pees and pees.... :LOL

Today I really cleaned my house.... well most of it anyway. It felt really good. Organize, and clean and declutter. I did our bedroom, kitchen / computer area and the Living Room. So I still have some work to do, but it was a good start. My spirit is refreshed and I am feeling good mamas









Elionwy (and others) if you find some undies for Eli that work, could you please let me know? TIA.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I've been putting the 2T training pants on him; they're huge in the seat, but he's almost big enough that they don't show any crack... I figure in another month or two, he'll have grown into them. *sigh*


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

dd is having her "munyas" more then ever too. i assume it is bc she is going thru a developmental leap, as her sleep has gotten all funky the last week as well. sigh. it was just starting to improve. sigh

i cleaned today too- it felt great, even if dd was upset bc she hates the vaccuum cleaner.

when dd was a newborn we used sposies at night bc all i had was cpf's and plastic gerber pants. and i wasn't into changing her every hour at night. :LOL then we got a great set on tp- hemp, and they still are being used every night. i'm hoping they last thru potty training, but that isn't looking like that will be the case. so then i don't know what i'll do.
i've heard great things about nightly newts, btw. anyone use those?

dd's latest funny thing is walking on her tip-toes. it is a hoot to watch.

gotta run








lisa


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Yup--we've resumed nursing full force again. I *thought* we were actually somewhat self-weaning a couple of weeks ago, seeing as we cut out the before-nap nummies, so we were down to morning and evening. Now, he tries to nurse every minute he can and he gets quite vocal if I resist. I *know* he can wait until a little more convenient time (like after the neighbor, who was over visiting for about 15 minutes, left) but he doesn't want to. We went and saw the Wiggles the other day and he lifted my shirt while we were there too. I chalk it up to a growth spurt/developmental growth as well.









Jasanna--how many "layers" hemp fleece are you using? And are you getting full coverage (does the hemp fill out the crotch area) or is there room for it to leak? You may be running into just not having enough. We've used FBs since Owen was 8 weeks old. I have found that while they are awesome diapers, he has far less leaks with a good fitted because of the coverage around the sides where an insert doesn't reach. I stayed away from fitteds for so long for whatever reason and now I'm trying to downsize my FB stash and go strictly fitteds.

Have I told you all that I'm an official diaper wahm? My site should be open for business around Sept. 1 (providing I continue sewing enough to have a nice stock to sell). Not sure if we are moderated in this topic or not, so if someone wants to PM me for my biz addy, then they can post it here, if you want. I LOVE sewing diapers! I love using what I've sewn, too. I have to look into advertising, although I have a great following of customers already, who are patiently waiting for my site to open (I sold a few of my dipes on ebay last week for some extra money and word got out on the diapering boards here at MDC! Yay!).


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

clay has nursed more than ruby her whole life. lately he nurses for three times as long, because he just wants to be close. i think the boys tend to be more clingy as well. and yes, he is bigger of course. he's forty pounds and she is thirty. and people ask how i suddenly got skinny when before nursing just kept me large..... it's part of the reason i'm happy with the designated breasts. right one for clay, left one for ruby. that way i can tell if they got their own share, and it has worked out with bedsharing too. clay reports that they taste different as well.

but two (or three or so) will get what they need. the hindmilk is rich in calories. now i'm starting to remember the beginnings.....at some point i even tried laying on my side sleeping, and stacked a swaddled ruby on clay so that they could nurse at the same time, hoping that it would save me a waking. i also remember infants tended to just be on me whether for food or comfort since they are not moving. i just think what a tender time it is for me with a new one and feel for y'all with expanding families.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

brayg, I thought about how many layers I use, and it is essentially 12 layers







I'm interested in your diaper site







Send me a link


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

fbs....are they repelling water? we had this spurt where we'd used too much detergent and it had built up and then they didn't soak the water through to the cpf, but the water ran out the legs. consult the diapering hyenas on the diapering board for how to "strip" your diapers if you think this is the case.

also....i just realized this last week.







: but you might try not stuffing the pocket but using the fb as a cover. The umm, fleecey wicking action is great, but sometimes for my dd she'd pee too quickly and the wick would be too slow.

we are doing ok here. erin got out of her bed last night and came to our little bed. then she kicked and kicked and kicked. so i went to her bed. there's a waterproof mattress pad down there and man did i sweat. can anyone talk to me about making one from wool or something a bit more breatheable -- would pul be better?


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Yeah Brayg!! Congratulations







I'm interested to know your web address please


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

kerc~ i'm lucky because my grama makes everyone a wool quilt in my family, and my cousin never used hers because she put it in the washing machine and then it was ruined. So I got a free felted wool quilt which I sleep on, on top of my sheet with a shower curtain under that. I get the sheet soaked it all sorts of stuff every night, but because I'm sleeping on the wool, I don't feel like I have to wash the sheet. I also put a receiving blanket on top of the wool when I think of it. I'm kind of grubby in the morning, but I don't have to wash endless laundry. This won't last forever, anyways.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

mamas

We're back from our trip. It was fruitful because it was challenging to me both on the physical (very hot, tight living quarters) and emotional (dh worked a ton and I had the full on concentration for both ds and dh) planes. But Mukti travelled happily and we felt it was a good trip for our little mandala despite the amount of work involved. Some good connections were made. I met a mama with a little boy just 6 weeks younger than ds. She makes her own dipes and slings, bfs, co-sleeps etc etc. I've told her about y'all and she'll be joining us soon. One funny story from that encounter: her ds calls bfing 'mamadee' and Mukti calls it 'beuf' At one point the two boys exchanged names and started asking to nurse by the other's name for it. A real insight into the language realm of our little ones.

Punk, sorry to hear the rest of your trip was so funky. It was great meeting y'all.

Mona, o shorn one, tell us more about your decision and experience of cutting your hair. What a lovely offering.

Casina I was particularly inspired by one of your earlier posts and want to comment some on it once I reread it. I feel our little tribe is very blessed to have you among us.

Went to see my sil's 10 day old baby yesterday. What a sweet atmosphere there was in new baby land. I found it difficult to remember ds ever being that small and embryonic but I have pictures that tell me it was so.

blessings, mamas


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

welcome home Rose


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

we are back from our adventures on denman island. it was a great gathering and i helped put on a workshop on radical parenting. there were two babies doing the diaper free thing and i was so impressed! the littlest one, raphiel is 3 months and almost never wets his pants! the other kiddo is 11 months and she is the same, although i did see her pee on her momma..but she was giving all of the signs. it was so interesting to see parents so in tune with their kids..and the fact that a 3 month old will hold a pee or poop till the parent is ready was amazing! the next kiddo i have will be diaper free!im sad i didnt know about it before. it seems so much easier than diapering!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

A wool matress pad! Why didn't I think of that?!? I'm going to have to make one for myself.







Wow, what a wonderful excuse to buy some wool and knit!







Thanks!

BeanBean has had a diaper and accident free day, starting with the dry diaper this morning. Through two long car trips (1.5 hours each) and a nap, he's been dry and clean, and this evening he pooped in the potty. He's nursing and rubbing his eyes right now







. Tonight, I'm going to put him to sleep in underpants. I can't believe my baby is so big!























I wanted to do the EC thing with BooBah, but things didn't work out that way..







Oh well, there's always next time. *sigh*

I'm glad you guys enjoyed your trips. One of these days, I'll do some travelling of my own! :LOL

My sister wants me to homeschool my niece for this coming school year. I'm very excited at the prospect, it'd be just wonderful for all of us.







Here's hoping it works out!


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

Brayg send me a link to your business. I am still in need of a lot of diapers for the little one. Ladies send me some labor vibes. I am sick and tired of being pregnant!!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Here's to a happy, healthy, labor!

We are officially out of diapers. Tomorrow, I will put all the medium covers in a drawer, to await the expansion of BooBah's waist and thighs.







I think I may still have to buy larges someday-- BooBah's legs are not as skinny as BeanBean's were-- but that day is still far off. I'm very excited, I've had less than 2 months of 2 in diapers.









Is it weird that I want to tie-dye his underpants?! I just want them to be cute, and the only ones that even come close to fitting (not that they do) are plain white.. that's just so boring, after all the fun, colorful diapers!

Hm, both kids are asleep! I should start some laundry!! :LOL


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Yeah Eli!!!







And I think that tie-dye undies sound great! I want some! :LOL Actually I was thinking this same thing yesterday. Everyone (mom and other "well meaning" people) keep telling me I should buy some undies for dd.







She is no where near where Eli is, but is very interested in the potty and for the last several days has been averaging about 60% or so of using the potty successfully. Anyhow, so I was thinking that I don't want to buy undies - they are soooo boring, either white, or too gender specific for my taste.... and I'm sorry but my kid is NOT wearing Spongebob on her bottom







Not to mention we don't have money for stuff that isn't a necessity at the time being.

Anyhow - bring on the tie dye undies. I think that's a great idea
















And this is for your Heather :

lots of







heading your way for a happy, healthy labor and baby, I wish you the best and for your sake I hope the time is soon :LOL


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

ok, my dd is not going to be out of dipes for awhile, but the undies talk brings us to an interesting point... we don't wear undies in our family :LOL so is it really necessary that dd wears them when she gets out of dipes/training pants/whatever?
anyone out there bypass undies?


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## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

Hi everyone
I hate to be a fly by poster; because I never know what is going on. I did read back a page though. The girls started "school" on Monday. I did a lot of research and feel good about the place they are at. It is a loosly based Montessori. Revina is doing well. and Scarlett is doing okay. She cries each time I leave, but not for long, usually she stops before I am out the gate. We are undergoing many lifestyle changes but I can't complain, b/c we are getting a lot of help.
The shelter won't let me use cloth diapers. Used diapers are not allowed to stay in the room and must be thrown away outside immediately. They say it is unsanitary. I choose my battles. A recent win for me was... they tried to say I had to vaccinate the girls in order to stay at the shelter. However, the law says they must provide an exemption; which I told them. They had to check it out and then told me I needed a doctors signature. I said no I don't. More checking and I am right!








No potty using for us. Scarlett will tell me after she poops, but that's it. I tell her she can use the potty and she says "no"! I am not in a hurry for it anyway. She is still my baby!
I guess that's all for now. I'll keep checking in, looking forward to hearing some baby news Heather!


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Well, things have been going much better for us lately. We've been able to get out of the house since we don't have the third baby, and the kids obviously do better tantrum wise/ sleep wise when they're not bored and stuck in the house. We've started a preschool group with some local MDC mamas. We alternate houses once a week and the mama who hosts picks the lesson/ activity that day. All the kids are from 11 months to 2 1/2, and Zach is one of only two boys! I'm hoping being around other kids will get Julianna walking soon- she's the only one who still crawls! It's so nice to be around other AP parents, I can't even express how much I (and the kids) need this! Everyone thinks it's adorable when someone's toddler walks up and asks to nurse in his or her own way- no hiding that they're still nursing, or bribing them to wait. I can do it whenever, and it's a good thing!







I actually feel guilty giving Julianna a bottle while I'm there beause she's the only formula fed kid in the group for once!!!

I'm really working on gentle discipline lately. I had been getting so stressed out yelling at the kids all day for getting into trouble and screaming at each other. Now I try to take a deep breath, forget about what they've already done earlier that day to piss me off, try VERY hard not to raise my voice, and talk to them. I try to use logic and reason with them. I try to remember what I want them to learn from what they're doing. If all that still doesn't work to calm them down, I'll put them (mostly Zach) in time-out for a few minutes, completely ignoring whatever they're doing (screaming, kicking, etc). It seems to be helping both my stress-level, and the kids' tantrums! Even when they're just being so naughty, and the last thing I want to do is cuddle them and "reward" them for being bad, I try to remain calm and it really does get better results! You probably all think I'm crazy for losing my cool, but it really does get crazy here some days and I can actually feel my blood pressure rising while Zach is screaming at the top of his lungs, and Julianna's tearing up something, and the phone is ringing, and DH is out somewhere, and we have no money and are running out of food, and the dogs are dirty and un-groomed, and Crystal's bus is pulling up the driveway, and everything seems to be just HORRIBLE... But I'm trying to take things in stride now, and just shrug stuff off, and it is helping tremendously! Don't sweat the small stuff, right? Actually there is a very interesting thread in the Gentle Discipline forum titled something like "It's official- I can not use Gentle Discpline with my child". I thought Zach was one of those kids who just didn't respond to anything less than military-style discpline, but he just needs some understanding, some extra time, and attention.

My kids are certainly learning a lot every day. Totally mind blowing to watch them pick up words on their own, and proudly point to something and name it. Having a conversation with the little one who was just a little rolly-poley bug on the floor this time last year is just awesome!

My insomnia is just awful lately... I'm going to try all the natural remedies available! It's like the more tired I am, and the harder I try to fall asleep, the more my body wakes up and it's just impossible to relax and drift off. I would not wish insomnia on my worst enemy, it really takes a toll on the mind and body. I feel like a zombie after I don't get good sleep, and that's not a good feeling!

Take care, all you peaceful mamas. I'm sending you a cyber hug right now







.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

I forgot to post about the Fuzzi Bunz problem. We use one on Zach at night with one hemp fleece, hemp jersey, or cotton terry insert. Just one lasts him all night! But we could stuff it with a zillion inserts and Julianna would still leak through. We have to change her every 2 hours at the max during the day. At night, sadly, we have given up using cloth on Julianna. We use Huggies, and we still have to change her once in the middle of the night. She still sucks down 8 oz. of fluid every 3 hours or so, so she is just a SUPER SOAKER. Sometimes there just isn't anything you can do. Jasanna, I'd try stuffing it with more, or change her in the middle of the night. We used a Liz's cloth fleece Overnighter cover at night for awhile when Julianna was very young, and although it is bulky it really worked well to contain leaks. Or try a nice Sugarpeas or Fuz wool cover over a good hemp fitted with a couple of doublers. Good luck with that problem, Mamajaza!

I would like a pm with a link to your site, Rachel!









Oh, and thanks for your pointers on sleep, casina.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

thanks for all the replies about the fuzzi bunz. I think I'm going to try a different diaper system for night, because I can't fit any more hemp fleece in her diapers (and I hate getting up in the middle of the night).

Decembersun, have you tried Valerian for your sleep disturbance? I've heard that for some people it knocks them on their a$$ in minutes. Try it out.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

One more thing Jasanna- the pee might be coming up the back... Make sure the fleece is tucked under the elastic, but you probably already tried that...

I will try the Valerian... I went to the Good Apple this morning (my friendly neighborhood natural goods store) and bought some Night Time tea and some Hyland's Insomnia tabs, so we'll see how it works. Now I have another excuse to go back there and browse!









I'm making some lemon rose cookies for a "tea/cookie party" today. Another get-together with AP moms. I am so thankful to have the internet, without which I would never have met any of these people and I'd probably be going absolutely stir crazy here... I'm thinking of buying a bottle of bubbly to go with the cookies and tea, hee hee!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

leah, have you tried melatonin. how about a beer or glass of wine.

i invited many people over for sunday for reed's birthday. i am also having an old friend plus girlfriend i have never met before, coming to stay the weekend after. the fact that she is asian makes me extra nervous. so i'm feeling crazy about my house, since i'm not as comfortable as i would like with it personally. there are no cleared surfaces yet aside from the floor. for the party i'm making a giant polkadot cheesecake, shaved ice with a dozen or so toppings, a salad or two and maybe some sushi. i've got thirty goody bags and most rsvps were maybes.

leah, i have a story for you.
yesterday i made a series of mistakes in reaction. i had just got out of bed and clay started chasing and slashing and poking both ruby and i with a plastic lettuce knife which just made me feel icky and i could only whine for him to stop it and continue avoiding him (i am considered a slow waker). at some point i told him to stop or i would take the thing away. he and reed are running around giggling, talking about how i'm the target at this point. he found a golf ball and threw it at my head and i did not see it coming. it made me really cry and i still have a bump. i went to make up with him though i did not feel calm and he was hiding in a cabinet. when i opened the door he kicked at me and i felt suddenly angry again, and i put him outside since the back door was right there. i let him back in immediately and gave up and started washing the dishes since i had very little idea how to cope with my reactions at the time because i was tired. no matter how much i wanted to let it slide and be calm so he would feel loved and calm, i kept antagonizing the situation. the bad feeling went away pretty quick after i did my usual puttering around the house and we connected again. he came and gave me a hug and we hung out.

the good news is that i'm able to act better sometimes. also i know that he is not permanently harmed and actually the worst is keeping away the feeling of overall self-deprecation and keeping the shame drop by drop to fuel me to act better. an interesting aspect is that i talked the situation with reed and he agreed that no matter what i did, whether trying to make up or change the rules, it still looks and feels like fighting to them. maybe what you do or don't want to know, is that my kids can do this all day, and i have to snap out of it and if i can't.....then just get through the moment. i think when damen first hurt his back it was like this for six months straight. but i have changed. the situation has changed. and my kids patterns are not as ingrained, since they develop so quickly and adapt. and really, we are happy people. my kids are not damaged by my mistakes so far. they are emotionally healthier than most people i know, including myself.

i didn't even get to the story about this morning yet. they are terrorizing me with messes.

eilonwy, i don't think it is too late to ec with rivkah? hey i'm no expert. i have a box to send you next week.....

lilmiss, anything we can do? what sizes do you and your girls wear and what kinds of clothes do you like or need? it would make me feel really good about sending you something you could use. maybe a twenty dollar bill or so would be better!

heather, do what you can and pamper yourself to enjoy this very strange slowing of time in your life. you're waiting at the top of a rollercoaster.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
eilonwy, i don't think it is too late to ec with rivkah? hey i'm no expert.

It's not, but I have to wait for the VCUG; if she has severe uretal reflux, I can't do it with her regardless of her age. It's quite a bummer. Honestly, one of the main reasons I wanted to do it with her was to show BeanBean how to use the potty, that poop and pee can both go in there. Since he's potty learned already, it's not nearly as pressing and there's only the laundry issue.

This morning, BeanBean's grandparents got to see him wake up dry and use the bathroom. They're totally impressed!







He wanted grandpa to take him, so when I asked he said "No." Then he went to grandpa and told *him* that he had to go. :LOL Silly BeanBean!

I am knitting myself a wetbag from fun, interesting yarn I found on clearance at AC Moore. It'll look really cool, I just hope it works. I also found some really neat patterns for bags, and in a few more months when I have some money, I'm going to try to make some to fairy to people, just because I like to knit. They're interesting patterns, some of them would make great wetbags, and I'll have the time of my life.

My mother doesn't want me to homeschool my niece







. I'm still trying to talk her into it, because it would be such a good thing for all of us, all the way around. Still, I reminded my mother and sister that legally, my niece doesn't have to attend school at all this year because she isn't 8 years old yet.







I think that my mother is going to send her, but I might still be able to convince my sister to go around her. We'll see! I really really want to do this... it'd give me some direction aside from the little activities I do with BeanBean and BooBah, and make me feel more like a productive human being, which is always a positive influence on my mood.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Right now ds is napping. Potty training/learning is not really happening here. After reading about y'alls little ones sitting on the potty etc and having certain times that you sit them on the potty I began to think that dh and I are too laid back. We do have a potty and a special seat that goes on the toilet and occasionally I'll remember to sit ds on either one of them but that's about it. He goes diaperless alot and what he does know how to do is to get a diaper from the pile and bring it over to the just peed on floor, put it on the pee and clean it up then put the diaper in the pail to be washed. That counts for something doesn't it :LOL Anyway I'm impressed with everyone's comittment to potty training.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*

the way i see it, it is all about energy. you need it for yourself, so that you can use it positively for others. i'm sure i've said this before: i'm working on using my energy positively. it starts with sleep and food intake and love. the physical parameters i could go on and on.

and then there's the me part. for me this means limiting the running commentary in my head. forgiving the things that happenned. often this means i have to forgive icky people and their icky behaviours, because i believe they are animals just like me in the world that are doing their best like i am. even if i was hurt i have to find a way to laugh or love parts of these people. the forgiveness is a release for me to go on and quit feeling mad and violated. it does not change the situation or how others behaved, but it always makes me feel better and able to continue free. when i'm upset or judgmental about others i am just as easily upset and judgmental about myself and this is a draining cycle. i have to find the way to jump on another track and forgiveness is usually a big piece.

this also means forgiving yourself for however you have behaved that you are not feeling right about. know that your child's memory is limited and that they are amazingly forgiving. what they remember is them feeling loved, not whether you argued in their favor. they just feel that as distress.
it is okay to not know everything about being a mamma! how unendingly boring would that be!

Casina, yes, this is heart of it. This is how I am aspiring to mother, within the whole human mandala. The other day I was feeling very low. Ds had seen me react loudly to some yellow jackets. Previously he had met them with a neutral/interested approach but after seeing me shoo them away he began to do the same. That afternoon I felt the weight of each of us having taken on the conditioning of our parents, and them their parents and so on down the line. The feeling that we've been led to believe that our reactions to things were actually our own caused such a feeling of sadness in my being. This mantle of unexamined conditioning that we all carry can be such a source of suffering. It inspires me to try and be as clear as I can in my breath and body about what is arising. And being human I 'fail' each day again and again. Your line about how boring mamahood would be if we knew everything gave me a real lift and shifted things for me









The other part of your post resonated with me deeply.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*

when my little brain and everything in the world gets overwhelming, i have to make myself do a simple minded thinking exercise and this vastly conserves my energy. i describe in my head what is happenning with no judgment and think of nothing else, and just act accordingly. it takes practice quelling the unneeded thoughts but they can be stopped. it is also important to have no value in the statements like feelings and right and wrong. i'm always amazed that my body will just do the appropriate responses without me consciously talking to myself about it. it would go something like this:

there's oatmeal on the counter.
reed is half naked.
clay wants more ice.
i hear my phone.
ruby dumped water.
i'm playing cards.
i'm nursing.
reed is yelling.
i'm drinking chocolate soymilk.

in the course of this my body may have done something or ignored the situation and then moved on. i tend not to talk but rather nod and smile or shake my head and make a noise. i say okay, or sure, just to acknowledge without either positive or negative. i stare out the window. i observe the smoothness of their skin and the tones in their voices. sometimes i make myself do this and it lasts for maybe thirty minutes and it will refresh me for the day. i can do it when no other adults are around and the computer and phone ignored. i am learning the skill of being less conscious, and it has really benefited me. it keeps me in the moment.

This is soo sane, so balanced, mama. I think it's also a classical buddhist meditation but I'm not sure. If not, it comes pretty close. Oh you are a wise mama.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

*solsticemama* said:


> The other day I was feeling very low. Ds had seen me react loudly to some yellow jackets. Previously he had met them with a neutral/interested approach but after seeing me shoo them away he began to do the same. That afternoon I felt the weight of each of us having taken on the conditioning of our parents, and them their parents and so on down the line. The feeling that we've been led to believe that our reactions to things were actually our own caused such a feeling of sadness in my being. This mantle of unexamined conditioning that we all carry can be such a source of suffering. It inspires me to try and be as clear as I can in my breath and body about what is arising. And being human I 'fail' each day again and again.
> QUOTE]
> 
> yes, rose, this rings so true for me too. to be aware all the time, it is impossible, but it is something to wrk towards. to examine why we do things, how we have come to these actions, and wheterh or not we want to pass the emotions behind the actions onto our dc. conditioning seems to be such a bigee that i am working on. i brought up an issue i was working on in the tcs tribal thread- dd throwing food. it was really starting to piss me off. but when i stood back, detached, i was able to see that in the large picture, dd throwing food onto the floor is not a big deal. no, it is not "socially acceptable," but as another mama hinted, she will not be doing this when she is 5. and she is not hurting herself, any one else. do i continue to ask her to place her food onto the table when she does not want that piece of food rather then throw it onto the floor? yes. but i no longer respond w/ a pissy voice, or a degrading voice. my parent's tone of voice was often filled w/ displeasure , disastisfaction- and constant sighs- for doing the simplest things that did not fit into their view of what i "should" be doing. i never want to do that w/ my dd.
> ...


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

I can share a few pictures with ya'll. I'll leave this link up for a day or two. Most of these are from our trip to Cali, except the one of dd in the pool.

Enjoy!









*


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

Punkprincessmama what a beautiful family you have! It looks like you had lots of fun in San Francisco. I enjoy visiting California when I get the chance.

I had a wonderful day on Friday. The moms of the playgroup that Christopher and I belong to threw me a baby shower. They presented me with 5 meals to be frozen and a paper stating that they had purchased 6 Happy Heinys for the baby off of my wishlist. I was excited! I can't wait to get the diapers in the mail. I am thrilled with the meals as well because that will be less cooking to do once David is here.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

punkprincessmama-
what a cutie!!!!!! thanks for the wonderful pix!









lisa


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

punkprincessmama-- what a cutie!









well, i ordered the measuring thingy for beanbean's shoes. when it gets here, i will measure and place an order, assuming, of course, that the measuring thingy isn't too narrow for beanboy's foot. if it is, i'll burst into tears.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Punkprincessmama what great photos. Of course I'll already know what a love Mariah is







. I especially liked the 'blue hat' pic. I've almost got our get-together pics ready.

Heather, what a lovely thing your friends did for you. Sounds like you've got some good support mama-wise. How are you feeling?

Eilonwy, have you tried softstarshoes.com? A little on the pricey side but they make 'em for extra wide feet and I think you can custom order them.

Casina, how did the party go? I'm impressed at the energy you were able to muster up for it as well as the organizational skills.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I started to say a bunch of things, about conditioning, but I see you are all saying what I'm thinking anyways, and my thoughts are so scattered right now, I might as well not get into it







I've got PP brain mush.

punk~ great to see your pics! Now I know who you are.

Love you all!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

well today i had thirty people over, half kids half adults. i'm reminded how resourceful it is for us to cosleep, since everyone fit nicely in our 1200 or so square foot home. so aside from the bedroom, it is all living area. i wish y'all could have been here.
it was a very nice party for me, the most relaxed i've been with guests, since i decided i did not "have to" make a special connection with everyone. and did anyway without trying, with a blatant exception....

(i'm having a few minor misunderstandings with some women, but i realized it is because i finally know enough women that i'm starting to notice the ones that are starting to leak poison, so i guess i'm being pickier. or i have more energy and am being assertive?) well, the party was already described as 2-4, and my mil had already taken reed to kung fu for 4:30. so the birthday boy was gone, and it was thirty minutes past the ending time. damen said very loudly, "casina, i'm ready for everyone to leave." so i went in the den where two mammas and their kids were and said, "damen wants everyone to leave".

(now, i did say this cheerfully and calmly. and yes i know it is considered completely rude. and if you know me in person, really know me, like most of the mammas i know do, you would know that i'm just being clear and there are usually no hurt feelings here because you didn't overstay your welcome, and i've enjoyed your company in the time you were here, and when i ask you to leave, it is to respect our limits and keep everyone happy. it has taken me long enough to know my limitations, so i'm working to be assertive about it)

so my friend, looking very comfortable, who has been needling and needing me for the past few weeks, was shocked and said, "does that mean me?" and i replied "yes, it does," smiling. well......she left in a huff.
the other mamma, gave me kiss and hug and said good bye.

yesterday dh played in a local street music fest. we spent most of the day there, and it was the first time i had really been in the neighborhood that i spent seven years or so in my youthful exuberance, stupidity and rebellious self destruction. i've grown up enough to go back and enjoy a beer and laugh at the facades and sexual tensions i am no longer part of and finally feeling comfortable that my past is behind me. i'm feeling pretty good about myself, better than i ever have. and my home is tidier and prettier than it has ever been.

potties.....ruby likes to be totally naked for spells and then decides she needs dressing up. a girl thing, i am told. anyway, she prefers to pootenanny in her diaper though she has sat on the potty for fun. really she just wants to pee like a boy. and yes, i use the archaic sposies.

rose, i'm glad you appreciated that post. sheez, i'm just glad i'm even able to think that way sometimes! though once again i will mention in the event i meet any of you: what i write is not the same as how i am!

the mess the other day was an interesting recipe:

ruby, clay, and reed.
one entire bottle of elmer's glue all, first used with graceful drizzling action, then cap off! it glugs out and is lovingly smeared
one jar of nutella
one quart of cooked sticky rice
one freshly steamcleaned berber carpet the day before, about 15 sq ft
wood floor, about 15 sq feet in another room
miscellaneous objects around the home that got touched with sticky hands

TEN minutes between damen leaving for work and me crawling out of bed.

add sleepy me to the mix, the first thing i see out of the bedroom is the habitat art they created, unaware that there are two more major areas which they continued to work on as i cleaned the first.
and the fireworks begin. the two littles had their bodies coated as well.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
Eilonwy, have you tried softstarshoes.com? A little on the pricey side but they make 'em for extra wide feet and I think you can custom order them.

I've looked at them. The problem is, BeanBean's feet make "extra wide" look very, very narrow. Extra wide is generally a EE width; BeanBean needs a EEEEEE. (Not a typo-- 6E). His feet are nearly as wide as they are long.

I might still get to homeschool my niece this year. It'd be so freaking cool!!

This morning, I put on a sign language video that I got out of the library. BeanBean knows all the words already, but he doesn't quite see the point in the signs. So they show a little girl on a swing, and then the sign for "girl" and BeanBean says "A little girl is swinging," but doesn't do the sign.







I did the sign and then did it with my hand over his, and he just giggled. Well, at least he enjoyed it. :LOL


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i wanna see these feet.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

oh, Punk, thanks for sharing. I love to see all you other mamas and your kiddos. Mariah is gorgeous--you all are!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
i wanna see these feet.

as soon as I can find my camera, batteries, charger, and the software for it.







:LOL


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
i wanna see these feet.

Me too!


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

sounds like something is in the air. i had my worst moment of parenting monday. we just got back from being away for 4 days. we drove 6 hours each way and split it up into 3 hour legs and stayed in a hotel both ways to do this. (ga is still rear facing and hates the car)

anyway we are finally home and I am putting ga down for a nap. the process takes 30 minutes (way to long) then she wakes after 15 minutes! I spent the next 1.5 hours trying to get her back. why I didn't just give up I don' know but she was so tired and I knew she really needed this map. i finally got so mad I threw on on the bad and left the room to call dh to come home asap. i took ga a while to realise that I wasn't comming back in. sh eplayed for a few minutes then started calling for me. I just could not go in I was so mad. When dh got her home took her to the park. she didn't seem to be affected by it at all but I am a mess. I felt so terrible!

I am trying to use positive discipline. i read easy to love difficult to discipline every day

breath breath breath

thanks for listening

Amy


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

amy, don't be too hard on yourself..being a momma can be super stressful and sometimes we do things that we feel very shitty about after, but you didnt hurt her and im sure she was over it before it even happened..kids are so in the moment and so bouncy. one of elwynn's favorite games is being launched into a pile of pillows and blankets. i know that as a momma you *feel* very guilty for being agressive with your kids, but look at dogs and cats and bears..they all knock their babe's over once in a while to discipline them..not hard, of course, not violently, but in a frustrated, tired, leave me alone sort of way. ive done, i admit. the other day elwynn bit me while nursing and i pushed him and he fell over. he cried then he said sorry and he snuggled up to me and we both felt better.
on a happier note, was your trip fun?


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

thanks fern









the trip was fun but stressful for me which I am sure contributed to the whole thing. we visted my father who I am not close to and his wife. also both of my brothers where there. my stepfather raised me and i do not have much of a relationship with my father. he wants to be in ga's life though and i figure you can't have too many grandparents or too many people who love you so i try to be accomadating. they have a pool. a lake with a beach and a boat in the backyard so ga had a blast! I had a good time with my brothers. so all in all it was a nice time. the driving sucked though even with splitting it up both ways and a borrowed dvd player.

nice to be home

Amy


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

I'm glad everyone liked the pictures







I'm so glad I was finally able to share some with you all.

Elionwy, when you find your camera, I'd love to see a pic of you with your new 'do









Abranger







i totally understand. It is so hard some days.







\

Fern, I think your post was right on







and my dd _loves_ that game too!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

It's warm here today. Been reading everyone's posts but don't have much to say. Thinking of all you mamas and sending







Here are the mdc mama pics. Enjoy!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i enjoyed! i have goosebumps!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

still have the goosebumps, i went and looked at elwynn and you fern! i love seeing the first picture of both of you. since mammas are usually the ones getting the cute snaps of their children, i always prize seeing one of mamma with her spawn.

my camera is still not working.
and i spent a few days yelling as well as passing out as soon as damen comes home from work. i'm tired or sick or just detoxing caffeine or missing it. i quit the coffee and coke, this time because ruby incessantly steals it, and damen has not had caffeine in ages it so it's not like i need to spend money on it.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

I took a piccy of me today to show some friends my new perm. I don't think anyone here has ever "seen" me.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Solsticemama, the pics came out so well!!























Brayg, Nice to meet you









and now, ladies, word on another thread has it that today is.........

*MamaJaza's* BIRTHDAY









soooooooo

Happy Birthday *MamaJaza*









I hope you have a wonderful day mama


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Happy Birthday Jasanna!!!

Thanks Punk!


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## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

:
Happy Birthday *Mamajaza*! I hope you have a great day!

Thanks for the pics everyone!

We are okay. Scarlett is getting used to "school" and no longer cries when I drop her off. She likes her teacher Lupita whom she calls "pita".


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

: Birthday blessings, *mamajaza*







:

It's very inspiring that, as a young mama, you're choosing to parent your daughters in such an "attached" and conscious way.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Awww, thanks!







Where is this thread that talks about it being my b-day today?


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Not sure where the thread is but if you scroll down to the bottom of the MDC forums page there is a list of whose birthday it is that day.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY JASANNA!









from elwynn and I

i took that picture of us.. i wish i had more nice pictures of elwynn and i, but im usually the one taking them so,...

you are all great, did you know that?


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

MamaFern I love the pictures of Elwynn and his Daddy! They are cute together. BTW you take great pictures of you and Elwynn too.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

I've only got a sec. sooooo....

MamaJazza, hope it's been a great day for you. You have happy birthday wishes in the Dready Mamas Thread, that is where I saw it first.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

today has been one of the worst days i have had in a long time. it started out well..i even got the futon frame that ive been waiting to get for quite a while.. but then the sun came out so i decided to walk into town to do the shopping i needed to do so i could make a nice dinner for mammas jazza and her family tomorow night. well it turned into a nightmare! it rained-oh it rained. elwynn stayed dry because he has a plastic cover over his stroller.. but its a 40 minute walk to town and by the time i got there i was pretty wet...and i had JUST missed the bus so i waited 35 mins.. then i got to the store, and the only reason i went to this particular one is that they have bulk stuff i need soda for laundry, and they have bulk cocoa powder (for the cake)...so anywas i spend a good hour picking food out.. i just got my cheque so i got a few things that are expensive, that i only get once in a while..well i got to the checkout and there is no money in my bank account..i was so sure that my cheque had been direct deposited..as always..but i guess they forgot or something. so there i am crying in the middle of save-on-foods. elwynn is waving HI to everyone cheerfully and i feel like a stupid idiot. i called my auntie because i needed to talk to someone or i was going to have a breakdown..i cried even harder when i talked to her..then i called elwynns pappa to see if he could come get us, but he couldnt so i had to wait for the bus for almost an hour..and walk all the way home.. i left at 3:45 and got home at 8:00.
so now i have no food and no money,because the bank always holds my cheque for two days when i deposit it in the machine..which i had to do because the bank was closed! aRrG.

so....
we had toast with nutbutter and jam for dinner.
i wish that i had a bath tub!
my feet hurt too.

i guess we are having rice and greens from my garden for dinner tomorow.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Oh Fern,







I've been there. I'm sorry you had a rotten day!


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

I'm so sorry Fern for your terrible no good very bad day..... Been there, minus the pouring rain. it still sucked so i feel your pain.







and wishes for a better today


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Well, mamafern, I'm sorry your day was not good for you but I have to say I found your post quite beautiful and touching to read. I'm sorry it was so exhausting and unfruitful but it was a gritty, you-know-your-alive, life is full of texture and ambiguity and beauty-in-ordinary-places kind of a day. At least that's how I read it and I found it quite lovely to think of you and Elwynn living your wonderfully mundane and yet profound mother and child kind of day together. I know you probably didn't feel graceful in the moment but your post made me think how gracefully and humanly you handled things.

Rice and greens from your garden sounds like a delicious meal


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

thanks everyone..







s

solsticemamma..now that it's today, yesterday doesn't seem so bad.. i got to cry..i havn't done that in a long while and it was a good release! and i slept So well, which has been really difficult lately, since ive had insomnia for a week now. all in all life is very good, and im sure that tonight will be fun no matter what i cook..but it is days like yesterday that make me glad that a day only lasts 24 hours!

this morning when elwynn woke up he said"momma i wanna go for a walk.please" and brought me his shoes.


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## happymamajenni (Jun 2, 2004)

Hi guys! I have a child around the same age as yours, and I would really appreciate if you'd check out the thread I started called "Help! I think my toddler hates me!". I really need help with this problem! Thanks!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

oh, fern, I just read your post. that sounds like you didn't have much fun on my b-day. We shouldn't have even gone shopping, it was such a waste of time.the mall makes me crosseyed.







s I'm really looking forward to having the most delicious healthy meal at your house!see you soon...

yeah, i went to the mall on my birthday.... never again . all the people, stuff, junk, more stuff, weird old ladies breathing on my newborn baby (while i'm about to yell at them







). I think that samaya is sick right now. her temperture is 38.1 C ........ my temp. is 36.1







i'm taking lots of garlic and miso soup.... she will be o.k.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

MamaJaza, i hope Samaya is doing fine. That is funny about you going to the mall, we just went for the first time in years the other day. It was overstimulating, to say the least. Still, it is practically the only thing to do around here that is free and indoors and air conditioned. It has been getting close to 100 degrees farenheit every day lately (110 with the heat index, easily) and we were dying to get out to do something and it had to be free









Anyhow, MamaFern, i'm so in love with Elwynns baby bloc "you can't pacify us" shirt. Where did you get it?? I have no idea what baby bloc is but you allready know I'm a fan of the Boobs Not Bombs, and now this.....

Hope everyone is having a nice weekend


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Julianna can walk!!! At 18 months she can finally take a few steps on her own! She still looks pretty rigid and she falls down a lot and gets tired quickly, but at least she's on her way! Yay!

Just got back from Mexico again. Zach and I went for a week! I got to finish a good book- for the first time in I don't know how long! I only got to read it in 20 page increments since Zachary would get bored playing by himself, but it was nice to sit and read while he napped instead of doing laundry, dishes, cleaning, etc... I had just gotten home from the four hour drive, walked into the house, and saw Julianna toddling toward me...









Zachary's in a funk again. Crying over everything. Screaming that horribly loud scream like he's being murdered. His whole body stiffens and tenses and he just lets loose. He just came up to the screen door screaming his head off, and I had just gotten through all the posts about gentle parenting and staying clear-headed, so I took a deep breath and said "Stop screaming. Can you tell me what's wrong?" And he did. Apparently he wanted to "ming" (swing), and he thought screaming would give him the ability to do it by himself. Ugh. I am really, _really_, REALLY trying not to yell all the time... I want them to be happy kids. And I don't want to be in a bad mood all the time. But this screamin is just getting to me.

From what I hear all your kids saying, you probably would think mine can't talk at all. He says a lot of words, but his pronunciation is still really bad. Which is why I think he's screaming all the time. He just wants to come out and say everything and he can't yet. Frustrating for both of us.

Casina, I have no idea how you do it. I would be a psychotic mess if I didn't have all your advice, and the advice of the other mamas here. Again, I want to be happy and I want my kids to be happy but sometimes I just lose my patience... Too often, in fact. But that's why I come here, so thank you!


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Hey, solsticemama- do you still like your Kozy Carrier? How does it work for you? I really want to buy one and the turn-around time is only a month now, so... The only thing I'm worried about is that if Zach wanted to lie down and nurse to sleep, like he can in the Maya Wrap, he won't be able to in the Kozy. But he's kind of getting too big for that anyway, and I'm really looking for a sturdier back-carrier than the Maya. It seems now that he's bigger I'm constantly shifting and moving the Maya to get comfortable, unless he's on my hip. Anyway, just thought I'd ask your opinion!

Anyone else have any slings/carriers they'd like to recommend?


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Yes, Leah I still use it tho, due to a strained muscle, the last couple times to the Farmer's Market I've given Mukti the choice of stroller or Kozy and he's chosen the stroller







It's a cheapo umbrella stroller that we took to Europe with us. I have also stopped slinging him down for naps and nights. Now I just lie down on the bed with him and nurse him down that way. I think it takes longer than the sling but it's alot easier on my body IYKWIM. I have a Girasol that I got awhile back and haven't really used much but the wrap-style carriers are supposed to be the most comfy for a heavy toddler. They're just a bit complicated to get in and out of tho.

I'm wondering how many of us are still nursing alot during the day and continuing to nightnurse. Leah, I know Zach, like Mukti, is still doing alot of both but I'm wondering who else is. My SIL was over with her newborn the other day and ds was quite fascinated with him nursing. Now we have a whole routine we go thru where we talk about who of our little friends is having "beuf". The development of his language is a fascinating thing to be part of.

Mona, everything ok? We haven't heard from you in awhile.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

elwynn still nurses a lot during the day, and a lot at night too..im trying to night ween him, but so far its not very successful..

mostly because he is SO underweight im trying to give him more food in the day and less boob..because he just isn't gaining and im worried that the doctor is going to want to poke holes in him when we go next week. i really don't think that there is anything wrong with him. he is smart and active and happy and healthy but he's still only 19 lbs and he should be like 27..its hard on me!

he loves his "milkies" though and i dont say no when he asks for it. most nights i nurse him to sleep, but some nights he just lays down on his belly and closes his eyes-last night being one of them.

actually he did such a cute thing last night. he was asleep or so i thought and he sat up in bed and leaned over me to see if i was awake and then he kissed me 2 times on the lips and i laughed because it was so sweet and he laughed then snuggled up in my arms and fell right asleep.

its those little moments that m,make being a so amazing!


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*
Julianna can walk!!! !

yeah Julianna!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*
Zachary's in a funk again. Crying over everything. Screaming that horribly loud scream like he's being murdered. His whole body stiffens and tenses and he just lets loose. He just came up to the screen door screaming his head off, and I had just gotten through all the posts about gentle parenting and staying clear-headed, so I took a deep breath and said "Stop screaming. Can you tell me what's wrong?" And he did. Apparently he wanted to "ming" (swing), and he thought screaming would give him the ability to do it by himself. Ugh. I am really, _really_, REALLY trying not to yell all the time... I want them to be happy kids. And I don't want to be in a bad mood all the time. But this screamin is just getting to me.

Leah, I think you are doing a great job. The fact that you are here, trying, and learning and willing to try different things, I think that is awesome. We all have less than stellar moments, trust me. It is the fact that you acknowledge that, and are trying to do better that matters.

The fact that Zachary isn't as verbal as he would like to be is very frustrating for both of you, and it sounds like Julianna has some extra challenges (I think you had said her mom took illegal drugs while pregnant???) so these are going to be really trying times for you. But you are so awesome, so loving with your children. I know it is all going to work out, and you will be stronger and the bond you will have with your children will be incredible. Not to mention what awesome, understanding people your children will be!!! I am so tired, I really hope this is making sense.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*
From what I hear all your kids saying, you probably would think mine can't talk at all. He says a lot of words, but his pronunciation is still really bad. Which is why I think he's screaming all the time. He just wants to come out and say everything and he can't yet. Frustrating for both of us.


Just so you know, my dd sounds a lot like Zachary. She has a huge vocab, but her pronounciation isn't there yet. It is very frustrating at times. When she is whining and crying and all that, I tell her "Mariah, use your words." and then I model for her "Mama, I want...." and have her copy me. If I don't know what she wants, sometimes she will tell me at that point, or I have her point, etc. She knows some sign language as well and we are working on that too. That is a huge help. Some of her words sound the same, so the signs are the only way to really tell. If it makes you feel better, she has two grandparents who are Speech Lang. Pathologists and they both say she is actually advanced for her age. We just have some super advanced babes in this group


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
I'm wondering how many of us are still nursing alot during the day and continuing to nightnurse.

Funny, I was wondering this same thing today.








Mariah has slowed down a bit just recently with the day time nursing. It is still several times though. I will have to count tomorrow. I still nurse her to sleep for naps and at bedtime, and she night nurses quite a bit. Last night it was at least five times. at least. Some nights it is only twice. I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one still nursing to sleep. I don't know why it matters, since I would keep doing it even if no one else here was. It works for us. But I feel better none the less









side note - kerc, I finally got my hands on Raising Your Spirted Child. I've read three pages so far (sitting next to the tub while dd bathed, thankfully it isn't a library book) and I can definetley say that she qualifies as a spirited child. A feeling, something like relief, filled me as I read those first few pages and I called dh on the phone and said, "I'm not crazy, and it's not me, it has nothing to do with me. She's spirited", and was telling hime about it. I've known that really, since chatting with you and others here, but to see it in black and white, it meant more. Anyhow, thanks for your suggestion, I think it is really going to help.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
I'm wondering how many of us are still nursing alot during the day and continuing to nightnurse. Leah, I know Zach, like Mukti, is still doing alot of both but I'm wondering who else is. My SIL was over with her newborn the other day and ds was quite fascinated with him nursing. Now we have a whole routine we go thru where we talk about who of our little friends is having "beuf". The development of his language is a fascinating thing to be part of.

BeanBean nurses to sleep at night and during the day. He also nurses *tons* during the day, but rarely at night. Now that we understand why he wakes up screaming at night, we take care of it and he falls right back to sleep usually without nursing at all. I have no idea when it happened, or how, but we seem to have nightweaned at some point during the pregnancy. I was a bit bummed when I realized it; night nursing was always so easy and peaceful for me, one of my favorite parts of parenthood.







Ah, well.

When I say he nurses tons during the day, I mean *tons*. Honestly, I tell him no more often than I say yes and he's still nursing between 6 and 20 times a day. It's crazy! There's a lot of







: and








: as well as :boy: and :2tandem. When he's not actually nursing, it's reaching :2toddler: or asking or just







. And then there's me:







He nurses way more than BooBah does. When I pointed this out to my mom, she said "Well, he's bigger than she is, isn't he?" Yes, but he also eats other food, and she doesn't.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eilonwy*
Now that we understand why he wakes up screaming at night, we take care of it and he falls right back to sleep usually without nursing at all. I

I don't remember -- why does he wake up screaming?


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Owen's increased his daytime nursing a lot lately. I thought a couple of months ago that we were actually on our way to self weaning, as we only nursed once in the morning and once before bed and that was it (we don't cosleep, so he doesn't night nurse). Then it came back with a vengeance! If I'm sitting down anywhere, he's up my shirt. It's also mostly flybys (which I always said I wouldn't do and here I am doing it! :LOL) but we do regular nursings about 4 times a day and several flybys in between. Actually, he's also been night waking a lot for the last couple of weeks (he's only slept through the night 3 or 4 times in 2 weeks) and I think it has to do with his upper canines STILL not being all the way through--3 months and counting... *sigh*

His language skills are amazing me every day. He's now learned "please" and "thank you" and does very well with it. I couldn't even count how many words he says now--he learns a few every day it seems. But I STILL can't get him to say his own name! How strange is that?


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

hi mamas!

re: nursing..... dd does it all the time.







nurses througout the day and night. nurses to sleep for naps and at nighttime. she still gets most of her nutrients from me. she eats some food, but not a lot. a bit here and there.
lately she's been asking for munyas when she wants me to stop what i 'm doing and pay attention to her. so i'll stop, and then she'll shake her head no. so i'm feeling out this game of hers, trying to figure out when she's playing , and when she really needs me.









language--- dd does not want to talk, or even communicate, on anyone elses terms but her own. i know that sounds wierd, but even her astrological chart confirms that she has communciation "issues." so she will say garbly goo instead of words she has said before, use sign language out of the blue (i stopped tyring to teach her about 6 months ago, yet she retained the info all that time w/o using it), and so on. so, while her verbal skills are improving, she is certainly not an overachiever in this area. basically, i just follow her lead, affirm what she does say, and keep trying to repeat simple words that i know she could say if she wanted to. :LOL

must try to go to bed now.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

My DD doesn't talk much either. I think she is *very* smart though. I really try to not pressure my girl into speaking. If she says a new word, I might repeat it for her with a pleased tone, but I rarely praise her for saying anything. She will be saying everything soon enough (and boy will she, she already "back talks" in gobbelty ****)

I have to nurse her down to sleep for every nap and at night. She will fall asleep sometimes in the car, or if her daddy is here, he can walk her to sleep, but he's not here very often. She's gotten used to leaning over me while I lie on my side nursing the newborn... she's quite adaptable. She wants to get all her nourishment from me right now, as i have that delicious newborn milk, but I say no quite often. It's very difficult for me sometimes to override my "protective mama-bear weaning her older child" instincts. But she gets a LOT, anyways. Getting that adorable double chin again which she lost while I was pregnant.

Forgot to say before that it was nice to see punk princess and solstice mama together in those pics....and the babies are soooo cute.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *punkprincessmama*
I don't remember -- why does he wake up screaming?

Because he has to pee, and for some reason he can't or won't pee in his sleep. This is a really good thing, because it means that I've got at least 6 months before I need to buy large Fuzzi Bunz (I'm fairly certain that BooBah will need a large long before she's ready to potty learn). I suppose what a good thing is that I figured it out. Now when he wakes up and cries or screams, Dadda takes him to the potty. He pees and Mike carries him back to bed, often asleep by the time they're lying down again.
















I just realized that that's why he wet the bed last night! (For the first time ever, btw.) We slept at my mom's house, and Dadda isn't here! No wonder he's been freaking out at me. Mike is *always* the one to take him potty in the middle of the night, because when he wakes up he disturbes his sister and I need to nurse her back to sleep. I can't believe I didn't realize it until just this moment!







I'll just have to be extra sure to put him on the potty before bed tonight.

The measuring device from Preschoolians came-- it is just wider than BeanBean's foot. I talked to the CEO online and he said that yes, the shoes are at least as wide as the measuring device and that I should get the kind with the laces. Thank goodness, because I hate velcro on shoes! :LOL I'll be ordering them tomorrow (or maybe this afternoon, if my wallet is in the van. :LOL) He's still saying he likes the pink ones, but I'm really hesitant to buy those. If he still wants pink shoes next year, and he doesn't want any other colors, then I will but I'd like to skip them this year. He likes red and blue, too, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem... of course, if he cries when he sees that they're not pink, I'll exchange them, but I don't think he'll mind too much. I think he'll just be happy to have a pair of shoes of his own! My little boy is obsessed with shoes, he loves them, and it's probably because he doesn't have any.














.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

punkprincessmama- I didn't get to see the pics you had posted since the link is no longer up. If you get around to it, can you pm with a link? And Zach is a lot like Mariah- he has a bunch of words that have the same sound. "Keetoh" is Crystal, here you go, and thank you! And "mone" is milk and more, but he will sign more if that's what he means, which helps. It was funny when we went to the ocean- he kept saying "Mone! Mone!" because the sea foam was white and he associated it with milk! :LOL

Zachary cries out in the middle of the night too, and casina had mentioned that he probably had a full bladder and I kinda nodded, but never thought about it. But now that I heard Eli does it too, it makes sense that peeing could be our problem... Nine times out of ten he'll wake up with a dry Fuzzi Bunz, and then he lets the floodgates open and he floods his diaper. So he must be holding it. He HATES the potty lately, so I'm at a loss as to what to do for him. But it would be nice if he would stop screaming and kicking me in the middle of the night...

My puppies turn 6 weeks old today! Yay! I am so ready to get rid of them... How mean is that? They live in a playpen in a corner of the kitchen, and they are starting to stink. I put them in a little pen outside every morning so I can clean out their playpen, but it's still gross. Yesterday I poured bacon grease over their puppy chow and they lapped it up, wagging their little nub tails, and I thought I was being so nice fattening them up... Then they had diarrhea all over their playpen and it doesn't seem like such a good idea now! uke


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Leah, sorry, but the tone of your last paragraph made me laugh :LOL. You've got your hands full, mama







. Great that Julianna (Oso?) is tentatively walking now.

Mamas, are your dcs keen on trucks? Ds has developed a real interest in trucks lately. On our recent trip everytime we passed a semi on the road he got very excited and said, "big 'un" and when we're out and about and he sees one he's very keen. Dh and I have done nothing to encourage this, it seems to have started on its own. I'm wondering a couple of things: a) mamas of girls do your dds have this interest also? and b) mamas of boys are your dss into trucks too? My mom told me that my when she gave my brother a block of wood to play with he pretended it was a car and ran it along the floor. Nature or nurture YK?

Ds also has a sling that he likes to carry 'bearsss' around in and we'll probably get him a doll as well but those trucks are a big fascination right now. I'm thinking maybe I'll buy him one to play with.

Mona glad to hear you're good. "Munyas" that's pretty cute. Casina, you around? Brayg I'm heading over to check out your new site


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

solsicemama~every second word out of elwynn's (my nephew) mouth is carz. He actually came up to me the other day and was "flirting" ... he said "I hav carz"..it's hilarious. He will find ANYTHING with a vehicle on it.. newspapers, books, a t-shirt and drags it around. my brother and SIL definately did not coach him on being so obsessed with cars.. they don't even have a vehicle. So yes, it is definately nature for boys to love cars.

My DD will play with elwynn's cars, but she doesn't say cars a million times per day.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

my dd has books that have wheels on them, and she loves to "brrooomm brooomm " with them along the floor,bench, ect. of couse, we taught her the sound effect.








i think she made the same sound effect yesterdya w/ an object that was not a car- like a blook or something
and she does notice big trucks when we are out on the road.
she doesn't say cars yet, and there is certainly no obsession as of yet.

must go....


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Mariah loooooves cars, and in her book anything with wheels is a car - bicycles, motorcycles, trucks etc. She exclaims "car!" for each. She doesn't play with her cars very much, she has dh's old matchbox set, but she loves the "real" things.

of course, she also loooooooves shoes, and loves examining everyone's shoes who come over









we've encouraged neither, this is all her


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

k loves shoes too. she tries everyone's on all the time. very cute, to see her walking around in a size 9 shoe. :LOL


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

totally nature! Jacob didn't even have any cars when he was little until I realized he was vrooming other objects around. He also like dolls and stuff, but was a big fan of the vehicles.

Owen...he's OBSESSED. He will not play with a doll--throws them down when I try to give him one. He's gotta have his cars and "cucks".


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

yup. elwynn LOVES cars. and bikes (bock) and trains (weee) and really anthing with wheels.. and like jaz said.. anything with a car! he even loves reading the used car section in the paper..! but he also loves his dolly and his stuffies..and he plays with other things too.. he loves playing in the garden (with his digger) i think it must be genetic..but you have to admit, for uch new people things like cars must be fascinating. they dont understand the things about cars that we do.. that they are smelly and dangerous.. they just see the moving parts and think "wow!"


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

BeanBean is completely obsessed with cars. If he hears a car commercial, he'll come flying. He loves trucks too; Mike's a manager for a trucking company and whenever we visit him at work BeanBean gets all excited about everything. Of course, he loves dolls, too. He asks me to nurse them, it's really sweet. And he sings to them, the way Mike sings to him & BooBah.







I think cars and trucks would have to win first place in his eyes, though. Oh, he's really into airplanes and helicopters these days, too.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Oh, it's TOTALLY nature, I think! I just LOVE watching Julianna and Zachary while they play outside- Julianna is picking off sticks and rocks that cling to her legs, Zach is pouring shovel-fulls of dirt over his legs. She is SO sensitive- say her name in the wrong tone and she cowers. Zachary stands up to you no matter what. He LOVES playing loudly with cars and drums, she's more content to play quietly with her kitchen or puzzles... It's amazing to see the difference, totally unconditioned by us.

I had two brothers who beat me up, and we played "Army" in the muddy forest, and that was fun sometimes- but I was the girly-girliest of them all! I loved my baby dolls and dishes and sewing... Isn't it funny how tendencies come out at such a young age?

One of Zachary's first sounds was the rumbly "Dddddddd", trying to immitate the sound of a motor. (We pretended he was practicing his Spanish roll of the "R"!) Julianna tried to copy him, only hers was rolling her lips: "Bbbbbbb". Zach's preference is for airplanes (nane) and boats.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I totally loved dolls when I was a little girl. I just couldn't keep away from babies either, and they loved me. I used to see my mom BF my little brother, so I would BF my "babies". I notice Haeven doing this now too, as she sees me BFing.

On a totally unrelated topic...
Do you ever wonder if you will ever have any grandkids? It's kind of an odd question at this stage, but I imagine that having grandkids would be the greatest thing. I guess I'll find out in about 25 years.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
On a totally unrelated topic...
Do you ever wonder if you will ever have any grandkids? It's kind of an odd question at this stage, but I imagine that having grandkids would be the greatest thing. I guess I'll find out in about 25 years.

No, I hadn't thought of that yet... But wouldn't it be great if we were all still friends when we do?


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*
No, I hadn't thought of that yet... But wouldn't it be great if we were all still friends when we do?

Sure would! Hopefully we will all be able to meet each other before then too, but I suppose most of you are scattered across the states. Maybe we could have a west coast campout for us in the west


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

We should start looking for a place to hold a west coast MDC gathering... I know they had one in WA this summer, but it was on the coast and I was in Eastern WA







. I'd love to meet you all. If anyone is ever in Phoenix, look me up!

I wonder how Anna and the girls are doing...? I think about her often, sending good vibes her way. Hope she gets back on her feet soon.

How are you holding up, Heather??? Is little David inside or outside? :LOL


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

My Zoomba is giving nums to everything! It started with her little animals and dolls, yesterday she was giving her brocolli nums!! :LOL She is trying to convince the dog right now







It is so wonderful. We don't have a child sling for her, but she asks to sling her babies so I use a receiving blanket and tie it so it is like a sling. Life is beautiful.









(she isn't a girly girl though, she loves getting dirty and has no problem playing in the dirt, etc. I am grateful for this)

I would so love to meet you all. We really should try.

I have thought about being a grandma someday - more on that later, dd needs me.


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*
How are you holding up, Heather??? Is little David inside or outside? :LOL

He is still inside and quite comfy I believe. My due date is on Friday. I get to see my doctor tomorrow.

Ladies my husband needs some good healing vibes right now. He has been dealing with a perianal abscess. The doctor lanced it to drain last week and Grant had a followup appointment today. The doctor doesn't think it is going to heal right and Grant will need surgery. He wants Grant to have a colonoscopy done after David is born to rule out Crohn's disease. Both Grant and I are hoping that this abscess will heal up so he won't have to have surgery. Otherwise, I am going to have my hands full with his surgery, a toddler, and a newborn.

Christopher started his third week of MMO this week and he is loving it! He is now trying to sing the alphabet song and he can point out the letters A and B 50% of the time.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

hello! i'm checking in and catching up.....but now's not a good time to post.
much love,
casina


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## mommydama (Jul 25, 2004)

Hi,
I saw this thread pop up and wondered if it is okay to join in the discussion. My Luci is a December, '02 baby. Interesting discussion here so far. I see a lot of familiar stuff. Hope it is okay if I chime in!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

mommydama~the more the merrier!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

wow, two new members! hey!

heather, do you have family or church to help you? one thing i can suggest is to ask for frozen meals. next of course would be a schedule of those to come by and take out the trash, do the dishes, and run the laundry, with no expectation of visiting. your family is in my thoughts.

ruby talks very little, her understanding is whopping amazing. she goes through days without speaking any words. clay was also this way which contrasts with reed saying three syllable words and conversing easily at this age. now clay talks just as well as reed was at the same age. i know of children that started talking at three. for those of you with late talkers, if it makes you feel better, know that when they do talk, they will have the same emotional maturity as their talking counterparts and will be able to articulate what they want the same.

yes, i've got both still nursing lots all the time.

the boy/girl thing is amazing to me. of course they have all their individual characteristics. but i do find when i meet mammas with two girls and no boys that they have had a very different experience with motherhood in many subtle ways.

mamafern, those weight charts are based on formula. i'm mad that you have to deal with that. table food is not going to improve health though yes it could fatten elwynn with bulk. maybe some rich foods for you to eat like butter, avocados, coconut milk could help when you feel concerned. but it is really okay to see their ribs. the pictures of elwynn look like a healthy breastfed kid to me!

decembersun, i feel i've been in your situation, so i'm going to dive and give advice. again, the disclaimers: i'm only an expert on my own family, and my advice is different from my own real life!

to start with the screaming during the day, you need a plan of action. the basic is, as a mamma i can assist and or comfort.

for me that is, when ruby is upset, i take a deep breath, pick her up and ask her to tell me what happenned. the asking is really just a respectful notion to show her she has my attention and lets them know that telling me is the fastest way, even if they can't tell me. if she is still wild about something, which she usually is, i lift her to where she is pointing, or let her down and ask her to "show me", which means she grabs my finger and drags me to what she wants and i work to help her. if at any point in this process she is just too upset or is just hurt and cannot show me, i can comfort her by holding her and offering to nurse and tell her that i'm sorry she is upset. i also do my best to stay with them with comforting until they are ready to get down and leave. sometimes i initiate the distraction, but i wait until they decide to withdraw before attending other business.

this is simpler than it sounds of course. sometimes she wants something she can't have, like today a sharpie marker that i did not put away properly. i told her i'm sorry but i have to put it away, i'm sorry you're upset. what is also important is what i should not do, and this takes practice. i usually don't like to talk about the negative, but i think it is important i mention that these are toxins that i do not need at all, and am working to banish. what not to do is: get aggravated that this happens a million times and think about all the other times this happens. wish she wouldn't scream. wish she could talk. wish i knew something i could do better. wish i was a better mamma. wish i wasn't so tired. you know what your negative list is, and you don't need it. i have to squash this line of thinking and focus on helping and comforting. what the kids need is my confidence. when they can sense my confidence and surety and i know that this is what i can do, they know that these are the options, and then life goes on......and it is also important i forget about the little things that happenned emotionally. what taxes me is if i feel like i am an on call firefighter and the forest is constantly on fire. sometimes they are on edge due to many reasons. sometimes i cannot make them feel all better. so i forgive myself constantly, and tell myself that none of us will remember how this bad this feels later, and know that things will be okay.

there are certain skills that help with the assist situation. i'm working so that they know that i'm ready to help if they ask, and they must come find me (and eventually call me and look me in the eye so they know i heard them). a child being able to ask before they are upset also takes a certain level of maturity and depends on the kid.....my kids coming to find me when they are upset is proportional to each one: reed still screams from far away since he once had me to himself all the time, ruby is independent in spirit and knows the way it works and usually does come find me.

i'm also drilling the word "help" so that i know they want my interference. sometimes they are upset at themselves and don't want me around at all. i should say, the sentence i offer when they are mildly irritated is "say 'mamma, help me'" and i do this with other phrases and expect them to practice it right then before i help them (either they do it or don't, and when they don't i assume they just aren't able to deal with learning it then). the more they learn to ask for help as soon as they want it, the smoother the situations. with ruby i have done alot of pointing playing of "which one, this one" and naming, and we have much practice with her grabbing my finger and showing me what she wants, so when she is upset she is getting better at showing me. we all have a harder time defining what we want when we are upset, so these skills take practice. she can run faster than i walk!

i wrote too much already. oh, did i mention earplugs? or just one? this helps me if i am feeling sensitive to noise.
time for bed for me!


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Thank you, casina. Sometimes I just need to be grounded and refreshed by your point of view and advice. My parenting style would be markedly different if I had never joined this "tribe", and gotten so much information. I take a little from everyone and apply it to my family here. It helps me more than I can say...

Zachary's behavior is so much more pleasant when I take the time to talk to him, and give him a hug whenever he wants, or nurse him when he asks, etc. I was always conditioned by my parents to make kids more independent, let them cry it out, teach them that life is hard, and things happen because *I* am the parent and *I* say so. Now the whole idea is just ridiculous to me. It just doesn't make sense to me to ignore my child and get stressed out over every "bad" thing they do. Did you all read Peggy O'Mara's article in Mothering this month? Whew, that really came at the perfect time for me. I loved it!

I was talking to a friend of mine last night who has 2 daughters- a 3 yr old and a 15 mo. old. She was telling me how she got them to sleep through the night (CIO), and weaned them by a year, etc. I just smiled and nodded, admitting without shame that Zach is 21 months and still nursing, in bed with us, and not sleeping through the night yet, and Julianna is 18 months and still on the bottle and not sleeping all night either. For once I didn't feel guilty for "spoiling" (synonymous with LOVING) my children. Some kids just take to changes easier than others I guess, but I for one can't leave my child alone to scream himself to sleep. Who was it that said we don't parent our children, they parent us? That is so right on. My kids' personalities have totally guided how I parent, despite all the things I always said I would or would not do! Anyway, I'm spacey and not making sense... Thanks for "listening"...

PS- Julianna had a therapy eval. today and her gross motor skills are still pretty delayed, but she's right on target for fine motor skills and speech! She's catching up!!!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i get irritated by the spoiling ideas. the bizarre idea that we are to prepare them for a hard life by being hard on them. how are they supposed to be strong enough to withstand this supposed hard life if we just smash them down? the longer i am a mamma i am able to see the differences in my parenting when i look at other kids. some kids just look mean and withdrawn and afraid. and this only encourages me to continue what i'm doing, to allow my kids to be the free wild animals that they are. yes, i yell and and feel furious and i'm working on it, but they seem to be doing pretty well and i'm glad.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

i'm not advocating un-gentle discapline, but life *is* hard. Today I went to the driver's lisence place to get my "graduated liscence) and failed







i spent 50 freakin bucks on that .... gone. Now if I want to take the test again, I have to pay 50 more $$.

It is definately easier to say you will parent a certain way than actually doing it all the time.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

s *mamajaza*

Yes, the spoiling concept is ridiculous to me. The other concept that I have realized I have a reaction to is the phrase "s/he has you wrapped around your little finger" This was said of another child to his mom recently and I found myself inwardly cringing. Ok, enough ranting for this mama







.

Yesterday was a pivotal day for us. We finally turned the carseat around to forward facing. Ds had surpassed the upper weight limit, at 30.5 lbs. I realize that lots of you mamas have already done this, oftentimes because your dcs just were not happy rear facing but ds has not complained about rear facing so for us it is a new and quite wonderful thing. I can interact with Mukti much more this way and he can have a more engaging time in the car.

And here's something inspiring. The other day at Tar-jay I met a 46 year old first time mom of an 11.5 mo who wants to have another!!


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

well i finally figured this out, i think. solsticemama got me started on this so i'm 'new' and just popping in to say hi...read a few pages but i'm not sure what else to say and i feel a little nervous for some reason.







but i really like the faces







well can anyone tell me what the 'd' stand for in ds,dd,ect.?


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

welcome mama!
the d stands for dear- a bit funny when you think about it, but 'tis the case regardless.








lisa


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Saritasmile.







to this thread. We've got some wise and experienced mamas here. Knowedgeable in those areas that aren't normally a part of the mainstream like extended nursing, co- sleeping, YK all the stuff you and your dh are doing.

You could share a bit about yourself and your ds. I happen to know for example, that you make and sell your own slings, beautiful I might add, and you make some of your own







: And that your sweet little guy was born in November. But you could share some more stuff about what he's up to these days. This is also a great place to come with questions about any and all aspects of mothering. Have you started the nightweaning process yet? I know both of us talked about that last month. Nothin' happening on that front here. We're still nursing away each night.

How 'bout the rest of the mamas. Is everyone doing ok?


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

i have been up so late every night lately so i'm going to try and be quick. my sweet crazy ds was born nov.2. i can't believe the #2 birthday is so near. yes, i do make slings and diapers. although my diapers are on hold because i have lots of slings to make right now. seems like lately everytime i go to a social gathering of some sort i end up selling a sling or two, which is great!







not to brag at all, it's just a great feeling to go somewhere and see a mama i helped to get closer to her babe.








so ds is a very active bugger but it's keeping me in shape at least. a week or so ago he started saying 'i got it made'...he heard it on the radio once. very funny and so true! no night weening yet. actually we've had some major early morning increase thats kinda been hard. like two hours nonstop or he wakes up crying. i just can't sleep through that!







: i'm also not real excited about beginning night weening b/c i don't think i'll be getting much help. dh is taking 18 credits this semester. well i can feel my eyes turning red...this is fun!


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

solsticemama

my ds was talking about you guys before bed last night. we miss you guys!!!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Good morning!

I think that BeanBean is sick/getting sick. He was super clingy last night and insisted on "Mamma! Mommmmmmmmmeeeeeeee!!!" and held on to me for dear life after I got back from the grocery store. You'd have thought I'd been gone for days, but it was only about 35 minutes. He was really upset, and when I got home he wrapped his arms around my neck and refused to let go. He's still asleep now (unusual) and I think he may not be up to the park this afternoon.









In other news, BeanBean has shoes!!! YAY!!! I ordered the Preschoolians and they actually fit him. I'm so relieved! He loves them, he's happy and I'm thrilled to pieces. I've never seen a shoe so wide in my life! :LOL It's amazing, and Im so pleased with them. Excellent customer service on top of everything else, it was just a fabulous experience all around. Hooray for Preschoolians!! It's a bummer that they were so expensive, but BeanBean will continue wearing them until he's too big for them. BooBah will too, but not for a while. :LOL


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

hi mamas







and welcome to the new mamas in our little group.

elionwy, im sorry beanbean isn't feeling well.









i don't have time for a proper post at the moment, but just wanted to let y'all know im thinking of you









also, can someone tell me about Genetian, I bought some in a liquid extract yesterday (it was on sale! only $2.50) and I remembered that a lot of mamas here have mentioned it so I thought, why not? I'm trying to build up our store of herbals/homeopathic stuff.









more later.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

nak
who knows how to remove florecent marker / highlighter from clothes?
ughhh


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Welcome to the group, Saritasmile! I'm also a diaper wahm (new kid on the block). It's already keeping me busy and I haven't even opened my store up for business yet! :LOL

Owen was nursing a lot the last couple of weeks but he's started tapering off again the past few days...usually only morning and night. That works ok with me...I'm SO on the fence about weaning. Part of me wants to; part of me never wants to. *sigh*

Owen also cut the top of his ear open yesterday. I don't remember if I posted a couple of weeks ago about how he gashed his face open and we had to go to the ER to have it glued shut...so here I am yesterday looking at this huge gash on his ear and thinking I don't want to go in, so we didn't. We cleaned it well and I put a bandage on it...it looks like it'll heal ok, although it really could have used some glue or something. I sure hope he doesn't continue cutting himself open--not sure how much more of that I can take!


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## sahm1 (Aug 14, 2004)

Hi everyone,
I don't get to post here very often, but I do lurk alot








Anyway I really feel awful tonight. My daughter has been testing me ALL day, she fought her nap until 6:30 p.m! I have been so crabby to her today, I feel so stressed and lonely lately, and the fact that she has been fighting her naps is really frustrating to me. I really need that 2 hour break in the day to take some time for myself (exercise, computer, read) How are your little december tots doing with their naps? How do you get them to lay down when its nap time? Any advice is welcome.

Nicole


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

when does she usually go to bed and when does she wake up?


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

hey mommas..

we are doing very well on our tiny portion of the world. elwynn got to spend some really nice time with his great grama (my grama) this last few days.. they dont see eachother much and it was really sweet how well they got along. we visited my aunties with their sheep and dogs and cats..i love seeing elwynn in his gumboots helping my auntie clean out the barn. he is such a big helper









we went to a bluegrass festival where i bumped into another MDC momma and her 3 kids and Dh. it was super music and lots of fun for the kiddo's..hayrides, tractor rides..popcorn.

nursing lots still..but im nursing him at night then siging him to sleep and now he sleeps a lot better and i have some space. he still wakes in the night but wont nurse long.

potty training is going well. he peed in the potty 4 times today and a bunch outside.

take care!

ps gentian violet is good for thrush punk princess momma


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bri's mom*
My daughter has been testing me ALL day, she fought her nap until 6:30 p.m! I have been so crabby to her today, I feel so stressed and lonely lately, and the fact that she has been fighting her naps is really frustrating to me. I really need that 2 hour break in the day to take some time for myself (exercise, computer, read) How are your little december tots doing with their naps? How do you get them to lay down when its nap time? Any advice is welcome.

I'm in the same boat. My girl hasn't had a nap for three days in a row. Well, she did have a nap today, but it was for way too long in the late after noon, and I wonder what time she'll go to bed tonight.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

It's a hot one here today! We were up at 7ish and ds had non-leaking night







. We're just being able to use our HHs thru the night with not too many leaks so his nightnursing must have cut down some tho it didn't feel like it last night. We were all restive.

I'm curious to know how much everyone else's toddlers are eating. This morning ds had some wake-up mama milk then lentil soup, tons of green beans, some sauteed arugula with goat cheese and a few strawberries plus some rice milk. Then he went on a walk with dh and after he came back he had some sprouted grain bread with coconut oil and almond butter. Also in there is some more mama milk. He's napping now but I'm curious to see how much he eats over the course of the rest of the day.

He also picked out his own







: today







I was going for the LHC aio but he had his sights set on the moon and stars flannel HH which doesn't do the job. But what could I do







he had made his choice and I wanted to honor it









*Mamajaza* I saw your no nap thread and thought how difficult that must be with a newborn to attune to as well







s

Punk gentian violet is traditionally used to treat thrush but it's not as benign as it's name implies. It's actually a chemical and some studies have found carcinogenic properties in it. My LC routinely did NOT advise it. HTH

Mamafern the image of little Elwynn in his gumboats is a sweet one.

Mona I've got no ideas for fluorescent marker removal


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

I just wanted to let everyone know that I am being induced tomorrow morning. I am 5 days past my due date so the doctor said it is time for this baby to come out. <sigh> I was hoping to go natural or have a few days between today and my inducement to try accupressure. Thankfully they don't start out with pitocin right away.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

mama- i was just thinking of you today, wondering how you are.

best wishes tomorrow and the upcoming week. i'll be thinking of you.









lisa


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)




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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

(((Heather)))) Good luck!


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

I'll be thinking of you Heather - best wishes


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Blessings, Heather. May the birth be healthy and harmonious for both mama and babe.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

hjohnson~ My babies were 9 days, and 6 days overdue naturally, and they were'nt overly big or anything. I hope you go into labour before you get induced, it's not good to mess with nature. There are a lot of risks to getting induced (higher c-section rate). I had my last baby unassisted, so it's hard for me to imagine a doctor telling me when my baby comes out. I really hope everything goes as you wish it to be. Many blessing!!!


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

I haven't posted here in months but I do keep up with you all everyday and so I feel I know you all so well. So, I decided to reintroduce myself and come out in the open again. I'm gonna try to stick with posting more. This is a great group of mommas!

Ds was born 11-12-02. He is totally into trucks, cars, trains, and planes right now. He is also turning into a real daddy's boy, wanting my dh more than me when he is around. I am enjoying the little breaks! We still nurse a lot, day and night and I am starting to get a little burned out. I'm just thinking about creative ways to cut back a little. He really understands everything I say but I'm not sure how to handle it when he cries and begs to nurse. Obviously, I nurse him, but if I already said no once what is that teaching him. I really don't waiver at all on other things...once I've said no that's it. Anyway, I'm also thinking about TTC in a big way and wondering how all this will play into it. I just read Adventures in Tandem Nursing and I will say it scared me a little. Maybe I"m not so ready for a second baby.

Sorry for the rambling. I feel like one of you even though you don't know me. I"ll do better.

Heather, I've been thinking about you all day. Blessings!


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

hey Beth









can you tell me more about adventures in tandem nursing? TIA.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

and i forgot to say thank you to everyone for the help with the Genetian









solsticemama - about eating, dd is different everyday. i never know what to expect - sometimes she is eating all day and some days she barely eats. I just let her tell me when she is hungry, and often let her pick from the refridgerator. Sometimes I make up a plate of different foods and she grazes all day long. Actually she grazes anyways :LOL whether i do it intentionally or not.

lately her faves have been : kefir, berries and fruit of all kinds,beans with brown rice, home made popcorn.

She seems to be getting pickier, and often rejects meat (and other stuff to), like she chews it up and then spits it out. I am ignoring it and hoping it passes, or that she at least learns to spit it in her napkin instead of my hand!!


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

Punk- Adventures in Tandem Nursing is a great resource book. Hillary FLower talks about all the basics: positioning, your relationship with older child, sibling relationships, health and nutrition, troubleshooting, nursing during a pregnancy...I could go on. It is peppered with anecdotes from experienced moms and that is a really nice part of this book. It really put pregnancy and nursing and tandem nursing in perspective for me as I had forgotten a little about the intensity of a newborn and she talks a lot about making life adjustments with a newborn, a toddler and then on top on that, nursing both of them. I will say it took the wind out of my sails a bit and has made me reconsider ttc soon and/or tandem nursing. But, then I see and hold my nephew and I'm all ready again!

It's a great read and I'm glad I've read it before getting pg as I think it has impacted my decision making process. I couldn't find it in any library or borrow it from anyone so I bought mine on Amazon. I think I'll be glad I own a copy if I ever do tandem. HTH


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

My inducement got postponed till Friday so David has a little more time to decide if he wants to come out before then.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

hjohnson... I hope your baby can make his debut soon!
















I'm tandem nursing my girls, and it's a challenge. there is a real natural instinct (for me anyways) to not let my older girl nurse. But she is really helping my supply increase, so I let her. And I don't *want* to wean her. I think that if I have another baby I will wait till Samaya has weaned. That probably won't be for another 3 years or so.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

heather, you sound well. i'm glad you feel okay with where you are.

me and family have been sick for a week and half now. a strange sort of vacation.

mr. clean's magic eraser might do the job on the fluorescent marker.

having more babies.....nursing two or having two when you have one is just not easy to realize until it happens. some mammas have told me they thought the change to two children to be the harder than the change to having the first, or having more. the age spacing can sometimes be controlled. this is the physical part whether it is carrying two kids or maybe it would be nice if one kid could take off wet clothes by themselves, or grab something to eat. the work and exhaustion for mamma is definitely more when the spacing is leaner. this is an understatement but i don't want to sound funky.

as for the chemistry between the siblings and mamma and dad, this cannot be planned whatsoever. something i did not understand before i had two and more kids, is that i have to parent something invisible called the dynamic. it is the vibe and interaction between people that i was not prepared for. when dh was at work when i had my second, it was no longer just the permutation of me and reed, dealing with each other. it was the combinations of me and reed, me and clay, and clay and reed. then there's me interfering with them like reed throwing a towel on the baby, clay pooping and interrupting me preparing food for reed, and reed wanting my undivided attention, which i learned to fare much better with clay nursing and sleeping in the sling all day. but maybe this description can sort of explain the difference of focus with the addition of a baby. i've had to learn to see them as a group, and sometimes with me part of the group, but it is not easy to sift through all the directions when there have been concrete lines drawn with the one child.

having said all that, there's is no way to really prepare, one can just do. and i highly recommend having more than one child even though i did not plan it. i wonder about family planning after all, now that i have the choice when i didn't before. it is certainly easier on my conscience when i don't decide wholeheartedly and intelligently to have a baby. all that responsibility could be too much for my little brain.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

hope you don't mind, i have more ramblings.....in my case, tandem nursing has definitely outweighed the not as i did with my first pair of kids. nursing solves many situations quickly. though with two children mammas learn to do different things as well, like picking up a child by the arm with one hand.....

intentional spacing in these times is a weird subject i haven't figured out. originally i wanted four to five year spacing. this would assume generally that the older child could somewhat forage for food and water, put on their own clothes if they were willing, and wipe their own butt, and not easily run off in a parking lot. i do tend to see some parents, once they get to that older age, decide that they are fine with just the one since the sleepless work of babyhood has gone. and i might have decided that as well. for now, i would just like us to be happy financially and have a daily rhythm for all of us including dh bfore having more.

and the naps. we have different needs relating to the nap. one is that child needs sleep and is cranky otherwise. two is that mamma wants the time alone (which another child picks up on fast and realizes that if they are awake while another is napping, they can have mom all to themselves). three is the desire to keep with a regular rhythm. when naps disappear and change, it helps me to figure what exactly it is that i'm not pleased with, and work from there. when it gets to where i'm spending more time trying to achieve naps than the actual napping time, then i know i have to give up. different kids have different sleep needs.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

i love tandem nursing, no question. it really helps me to reconnect with beanbean on those days when 'm way too frustrated with him. he can nurse and relax and fall asleep, and it's just a wonderful feeling that reminds me why i wanted to have children in the first place.

nursing through pregnancy was different, and one of the most depressing experiences of my life. BeanBean was not physically ready to be eating more solid foods (he was still getting at least 80% of his nutrition from my milk) to say nothing of emotionally ready. I lost my milk and it was heartbreaking for both of us. I was so depressed, it was really hard to watch my son suffering. He started to get sick, his digestion was terrible, and he was generally unhappy all the time. I was so angry with myself for not taking seriously the idea that I might lose my milk if I got pregnant; I'd always had so much, I figured my supply would be fine.







I'm still sad when I look back on it.

We do not intend to TTC #3 until BooBah is able to drink Pediasure and eat enough food to sustain her. I wouldn't mind nursing her (or even both of them) during the pregnancy, but I don't want to feel like they're suffering because they don't have enough nursies. As I said before, I love tandem nursing. It's fabulous, and I really feel sorry for mothers of non-nursing toddlers because I have no idea how I'd deal with BeanBean if I didn't have nursies to offer him a lot of the time.


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

I love hearing the perspectives on tandem nursing. I feel so ready to ttc and ds would be almost 3 by the time there would be another baby around...I just have to gear myself up for it and take it as it comes. That's how I've handled every other parenting decision so far and I feel great about where we are! My instincts haven't betrayed me yet!


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

I am so in awe of all you tandum nursers! We are certain that one child is enough for us. I cannot even imagine having another let alone tandum nursing. I am so glad that people like you wonderful momma's are having more children b/c it gives me hope for the next generation.








2 from my little family of 3

Amy


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Hello mamas,

We had a huge storm last Friday that knocked down a bunch of power lines, so we didn't have electricity. We had to stay in a hotel on Saturday night because we couldn't stand another night without air conditioning, and Crystal's medical equip. needed to be recharged after running on battery power for two days... Anyway we're up and running again now!

I had another three-day-marathon migraine which ended today, so I'm getting back into my groove with the housework and stuff.

We moved Zach's crib mattress onto the floor in our room, next to the bed. I'm making him sleep on his mattress, and if he wakes up in the middle of the night I'll lay with him down there. He did not like the idea at first- I told him "You have to sleep in your own bed now" and pointed to it and he whimpered "Bed? Nigh-night?" and pointed to my bed. In his new bed he'll nurse for 30 minutes, fall asleep, and as soon as I slip the nipple out of his mouth he wakes up screaming because he knows I'm going to leave. So, I haven't been getting much sleep lately, but I anticipate we'll have a few more bad nights like this before he gets the hang of it. I know this is something I have to do to save my sanity.

Zachary fights his naps a lot lately, too. He might skip a nap altogether, or he'll fall asleep anywhere from 3pm-5pm and sleep for 2 hours. He never has trouble going to bed at night, so it doesn't bother me when he does that. He actually does fine if he skips a nap- Julianna on the other hand falls to pieces and you can't take her anywhere. She HAS to sleep at her regular times or she goes nuts. So, everyone is different.

DH and I are planning on TTC next spring, as a 5th anniversary present to ourselves. I don't know if I can wait that long, though... :LOL I didn't want to have a summer delivery, or be big and pregnant during an Arizona summer, but we shall see. All this talk about tandem nursing and newborns and inducing labor has put babies on my brain! That, and I've been watching all the Discovery Health Channel's Baby Week shows...









Welcome to the new mama from Flagstaff! Next time I drive up north for the day we'll have to have a picnic together









Good luck on your upcoming delivery, Heather! I hope you have the birth you're wanting with David. Enjoy this wonderful time in your life...


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

i feel the same way! but i really flip flop a lot.. i LOVED being pregnant and i want to be again sooo much! but id like to be pregnant for like..24 months before having the baby..hehe. i dont feel like the milk thing is that much of an issue for us anymore.. my milk isnt much now and i think elwynn would want to nurse anyways..milkies or not..i guess the other factor is that elwynn's pappa and i really arent together and even if we were he NEVER wants to have more babies..or so he says..so i better find someone quick.. i guess there are other options, but i would really like to have a family(not that elwynn isnt the best little family anyone could ever have!)

we went to the dr yesterday because i noticed this white lump on elwynns penis a while ago.. it concerned me..i thought it was a cyst..but the doctor says its "smegma" an accumulation dead cells and oils that got trapped under the foreskin and it will naturally work its self out.she said that the first time she saw it she thought it was a cyst too, but its pretty common ctually.. im very relieved.

he also gained almost a pound and grew half an inch in the last month which for him is huge!







he was 16 lbs at one year and 18.7 last time i weighed him (a month ago) and now he is 19.3. YAY. maybe, just maybe he will be 20 for his #2. he really needs to get a little more chub on him if we are ever going to go diaper free because he has no bum at all.. i can hold his whole little behind in one hand and i have smallish hands!! i think little samaya will soon be bigger than him. by the way she is a little angel..







2
*lucky auntie*


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

BeanBean is definately losing weight.







He's stopped drinking so much pediasure, he's mostly refusing it and asking to nurse instead except for in the car (where he knows I won't nurse him). He was 28 pounds at one point over the summer (and looking very healthy; he's got huge bones just like Mamma) and three weeks ago at WIC he was 24... today I'm certain he's lost at least another two pounds. His ribs are showing again, and I can see his pelvis. He's still got the tiny bit of tushie he gained, so I know he's not undernourished, but he hasn't gotten any taller (which is what I'd hoped would happen instead of him just losing the weight). Instead of getting taller, he had a huge "brain spurt" and gained a whole lot of new words, better grammar and clearer speech and then he lost the weight. *sigh*


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

december sun ~ i have been meaning to say that i didn't forget about your request to see the pics of us ~ i've just been a bit swamped here and a bit lazy *sigh*

i hope to add some pics and share with everyone this weekend. i will also PM you the link so you don't lose out twice :LOL


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

I had a huge post typed up last night and when I submitted it, MDC hiccuped and it's gone.









We are TTC as well, although I have apprehensions about having only 2 or 3 years between children, as I have 7 years between mine. For the most part, the 7 year gap has been heavenly...mostly my issues are internal for me...I worry that I've somehow turned Jacob's life upside down because we had another child, since he was the only for so long. I struggle with him not being a mamas boy anymore, but I suspect that has more to do with his age than having a little brother who demands a lot of his mom's time.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abranger*
I am so in awe of all you tandum nursers! We are certain that one child is enough for us. I cannot even imagine having another let alone tandum nursing. I am so glad that people like you wonderful momma's are having more children b/c it gives me hope for the next generation
Amy

these are my sentiments as well. i don't think kathrynn would share me w/ another baby w/o going bonko. :LOL

dd is not gaining any weight that i can tell these days. i want to weigh her to be sure, but it doesn't seem like it. still at approx 23#, where she has been for the last 9-10 months. yikes!! she has lengthened out, but i'm not sure how tall she is. she looks very healthy tho- she has plenty of flesh covering everything. what can i say? she is adorable naked.







both dh and i are small people, so i don't imagine she will be a large person.









anyone have a learning tower? i really want one, and don't know if i can wait until xmas. she loves being at the sink these days.








2


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

I wonder how Heather is doing?


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

casina- i forgot to give you and your family extra hugs for being sick....







2







2







2







2







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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

casina-
i forgot to give you and your family extra hugs for being sick....







2







2







2







2


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## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

Hi everyone!
Tandem nursing, well I can't comment on that!
It's nice to hear you all are doing well and it sounds like there may be some new babies in a year or 2 if all the TTC is successful!
Heather-- both of my kids were 10 days "late." I agree with *Mamajaza* in that induced births tend to be harder. However, as it is Friday; I hope whatever is going on is going well!
Scarlett's weight I am not sure about, but my guess is pretty close to 30 lbs. She is tall though, so she still doesn't look chunky.
She is great! Onery!! She gets into these moods were she loves to torment Revina. Her language is really developing and what a giggler!

I started shiatsu school last week and I am really enjoying it. We are still in transition, but we should be more settled in October.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

oh, lilmiss, it is always nice to hear from you









I am also thinking of Heather, and casina, I hope you and yours are feeling better.

Wondering how Xmas Eve is these days......

On the ttc note~ we are not trying, but not trying very hard not to either







We plan to officially start trying in March... but we will see what happens, it may be sooner if we get some good financial news


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

i have no idea how to do the quote thing soo i'm quoting brayg "I'm also a diaper wahm (new kid on the block). It's already keeping me busy and I haven't even opened my store up for business yet!"
brayg being a wahm is soo much work! i love having a focus but i also realize how much i love sitting and staring. something i haven't gotten a chance to do for awhile. doing something that makes me some of my own money has really taken away the powerless feeling i've had for awhile. it's hard to depend on someone else completely. i'd love to check out your dipes. do you have a snap press? i'm really craving to talk about wahm stuff with another wahm.


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

I took ds to the dr last week for a strange rash (turned out to be a virus, no biggie) and he weighed 25-26 pounds. This is up from 22 at his 18 month visit. This is his biggest gain since he was 19# at his 6 month visit!

Does anyone else's dc freak out at the dr? Ds has screamed whenever the dr talks to him, touches him, and this time, walked in the room since about 12 months. Last week he kept saying, "open the door" while he was crying. I had to totally distract him to get him to stop crying even when no one was in the room with us. He wouldn't even nurse. I just feel bad because he seems so scared. He never does well with strangers but is usually fine if I'm around. He never gets vaxed or anything else painful there.

My gp (who I'm luke warm about BTW) always says annoying things like, "how does he do getting along with others?" and "can you leave him in the church nursery?" I always respond that he is not comfortable with strangers and I think that's pretty developmentally appropriate. I just wish she'd get a glimpse of his great personality. Certainly he's not the only young toddler who comes into her office and cries!

Does anyone else's dh or so refuse to change poopy dipes when they don't have to? Dh just begged me to change a poop, saying (as usual) that he is almost puking just smelling him. I find this so childish and annoying. When they are alone he changes them but then has to tell me how awful it was, etc. So annoying. He's a wonderful and attentive father and husband, just with the normal annoying issues!

Planning to ttc after the new year, although we've been a little careless lately! Deep down though, I don't want to get pg now, I'm not ready! But, I'm getting excited!

Lots to ramble about. Sorry.


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

my ds went through a period of being really shy of any man, sometimes even dh. i was really worried about it but after some thinking and self honesty i realized deep down i was glad. i've been weary of men off and on since i was little. anyway after admitting it to myself, he suddenly stopped. it was very interresting. so maybe you aren't comfy with dr? my ds still likes our woman doctor better.
dh has probably changed 5 poops in almost 2 years. same stuff. 'it makes me want to puke' well, i was morning sick for 10 mnths, so not much simpathy here.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

What happened to Lilyka, I wonder?


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

hey. hugs back to everyone!
having to deal with bodily movements just isn't that cool for most men. women have to deal with a monthly mess to remind us how animal we are. my dh will now change a diaper immediately since the necessity has overidden his ick factors, but there's no way i could have planned on that. if i had known he would come around, i would have more readily ec'd or cd. i find it archaic that we are using sposies (though ruby is naked much of the time). but then, we still have to buy a specific brand or it throws us off, and i'm glad for his help.

one more comment on the ttc. the nursing will change way before the new one comes. the invading child will alter your body so that the milk will diminish or essentially disappear. it shocked me when with clay, totally nursing, lost his milk in a week in the first trimester. thinking back i realize there is always some residual nutrition and i did panic. plus the breasts get sensitive. so sometimes weaning happens with women when a new pg occurs.

ruby is, no matter what, an utter delight for me. even when she is making me crazy. like today at the park, i spent most of my energy protecting the ice cold water bottles that she wanted to pour in the sand. she is forever dumping out everyone's drinks at all times, and my boys consider their cold water sacred and special and security. perhaps it is time to save for a water fountain in the home. on the up side, her pouring skills are unsurpassed. on the down side, she will drown your unsuspecting meal proceeding with other experiments with this goo and i go through gazillions of towels.

i don't know anything about how big she is. she does seem "skinnier" than ever (i've never had to worry about my kids being on the small side, it is the opposite, which is weird for me as well). i remember that for the boys, the age of two had little weight gain and lots of height, and that there was very little eating going on. however, ruby eats more than some adults right now, and that's with modern unfettered nursing. my oldest reed has eaten more than most adults since he was three.

leah, i'm glad you are assertively doing something about your sleep.

saritasmile, i make slings too though i'm not sure about selling them. i have sold some to friends here and there. really i'm just not good at selling myself in person. plus i like a well fitted pouch and that takes some getting to know you. i am gearing up to tear down and revitalize my sewing station and start making some crazy stuff to sell.....

lilmiss, i'm glad you checked in!

bethkm, my kids have varied responses to people, sensitivities that i have learned to trust, though it is not always convenient or practical. and this is an age where some kids have issues with strangers, esp i see baby girls will have issues with men.


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

casina sometimes i feel weird about selling them. self doubt i guess. i know there are better sewers than me, how come they don't sell things...anyway i just have to remind myself that i can do it. shut out the negative thoughts. anyway if you want some tips for selling i'll gladly tell. (i hope this is okay to write...i'm still figuring out the rules)









i would love to tandem but i don't know if it will happen. dh has a heart attack everytime it gets mentioned. i would love for dc to be close in age but i don't see it happening. i see all these little tiny babies around and just remember that the time i get to spend w/ ds is so precious. but, i'm still baby crazy


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

about strangers... my little girl will say HI! to virtually everyone, but if they reply the hello and lean in a little closer, she will immediately try to hide.I'm glad that she has this waryness, especially with men. My dad was here a while back, and it took haeven 5 days to allow him to hold her. My dad is really tall and "scary looking" so I can see why she was so careful.

Haeven now weighs 30 1/2 lbs, naked. The last time I weighed her she was the same with clothes on. She's getting lots of high fat breastmilk these days.

As to babies loosing weight... maybe it has to do with the temperture? If it's really hot out, it's much easier to loose weight, and not eat as much. They are probably fine.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Casina, I gave up on making DS sleep in his own bed. (For now.) After the 4th night (last night) I just wanted to sleep, so I let him come into my bed. I thought he'd be unhappy in his own bed, but he'd just cry a little and give up and go to sleep. Ha! He didn't sleep at all, just laid there and whimpered. Then, when I'd get into his bed to nurse him back to sleep, I'd fall asleep in there, so it wasn't really like I was teaching him anything! So, I guess it just wasn't the right time, or we may need to start more slowly. I really don't mind him sleeping with me, it's the hour or two long nursing sessions where he stretches me all over the place that I hate... And I was hoping I could get him to comfort himself back to sleep, or at least be patted or something, so that I can go back to working a few nightshifts a week. We could really use the money, and it's great work for the money, and I can catch cat naps if I need to, but I don't want to bring Zachary with me. Oh well...

Hopefully by 2 he won't be so clingy to mama. I mean, I want him clingy to ME, not my breasts. It makes me sad sometimes that he doesn't just want to be held and cuddled by me- he ALWAYS wants "bobby". I tell him he has to say goodbye to the bobbies and he starts whining "No!" :LOL I ask him if he's a big boy or a baby and he always says "Beebee!"







I know when he's older I'll wish he was still a little clingy baby, but right about now I'm wishing for less bobby time...


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

~nak~

*NEW PICS* (the last four)









******


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

punk~~cute pics!

isn't that funny how all babies have different names for the boob... haeven's is Meemee. I never ever called my boob that. she thought it up on her own. What do all your babies call the boob? or boob milk?


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Hey *mamajaza* our babies weigh the same amount







But I think Haeven is taller. Ds is 34 inches. His name for nursing is "beuf"
















Quote:


Originally Posted by *December Sun*
I want him to be clingy to ME not my breasts

:LOL I think at this age there's not much difference between "bobby" and mama. I know what you mean about the hr. long nursing stretches. Last week all of a sudden I began to feel drained by what it takes to get ds to sleep and it's not that much really. About a half hr. max of nursing to sleep or nap but often just 20 mins. I think it's the emotional buildup of knowing I'm gonna get some time where I'm not accomodating another being and the anticipation of this takes me right out of the present moment into all the little things I want/need to do. And when I'm wanting what's not present I don't have the energy/interest for what is present and then feel drained. Does that make sense? When I give up and just 'nurse while I nurse' I don't feel as tired but that has not been happening lately for some reason. Maybe 'cause he often wakes 45 mins after he's fallen asleep and then the whole process gets repeated.

Lilmiss' glad to hear from you, mama.

Saritasmile I had to







: when you described your dh's reaction to tandem since I've met him and have the visual.

Punk your dd is as adorable as ever. Mukti still *asks* after her









I forgot to say *mamajaza* I read your thread about the nighttime







: situation. I was thinking a wool cover over your FBs might just do the trick. Btw I'm amazed Haeven can fit into FBs. Ds's thighs are way too chunky and they leave red marks. HHs do much better on him. I stuff them with a premium ubcpf and either a jb or gerber gauze pf.

Casina sounds like things are better health-wise at your home. Yay!

I wonder if Heather is still









Eilonwy is Eli better? Have I forgotten anyone? Oh ya, bethkm


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm actually trying to sell the FB now... anyone interested? make me an offer. I have four. LMK.

But now, since getting rid of samayas (useless IMO) kissaluvs 0, I've splurged and bought 3 muttaqins! My first custom dipe! they are going to be for night time. and they're one size, so they'll last forever. samaya doesn't gain weight like haeven does. I'm so excited... new diapers!







:

what time does your babe go for a nap? haeven is usually 1:00, but now







.. gotta go..


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

Ds says, "I wanna nur" or "I want milk." When referring to the actual boob he says "booboo" and doesn't hesitate to ask to see dh's too, often asking if he will nurse him too! I think this is a great sign of wanting to get his favorite comfort from dh as much as me.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Jas, what size are the FB? BooBah is, without a doubt, going to need larges someday (BeanBean never did).

BeanBean is feeling better, though he has started to nurse at night again. Last night he nursed more than his sister!!







Unbelievable. Well, I believe it.. :LOL

I'm not sure if it's heat that's making him lose weight; it's actually been very mild here for a while, and not hot at all.







I suppose he's just getting back to being a skinny kid again. I really just need to relax about it, because he's obviously very healthy. I just have these preconcieved notions about how a child is supposed to look, and ribs you can count from accross a room doesn't come into the picture, kwim? The thing is, I was skinny like that and so was Mike, so I know that it's normal. It's just... well, when I think of a healthy toddler, that's not what I think of.

Speaking of which, BeanBean is very quickly exiting "toddlerhood." Every day, he seems more like a little boy.







My baby is growing up so fast! I think I may lurk in the next forum a bit.

Oh! BeanBean calls them "nursies" and the milk is either "milk" or "mama milk." My nieces call the milk "leh" ("leh" is a baby's first word, it's the hunger cry and it's why the word for milk in so many languages is close to it-- lait, leche, etc.) and nursing is either "take a nurse" (younger niece) or "nursie nursies" (older niece). BeanBean has tried to nurse on Dadda, but Mike doesn't have nursies-- he has nipples. BeanBean will tell you, in fact, that everyone has nipples except for Mamma, who has nursies.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Mariah has just really figured out that she can not nurse from dh. She wants to, and asks, but then answers herself: "no nums" and throws her hands up, it is so cute.

elionwy, if you don't mind me asking, how do you deal with having two frequent nursers? I find myself feeling very drained and a bit short tempered when I have spent a large part of my day/ night nursing dd.

--she's awake


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

hey all..

elwynn calls nursing milk..or milka..or milkurt and usually signs it too.

im not sure what else to say..so hello and goodbye. have a nice evening.

fern and elwynno


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Have any of you heard that men can produce milk? I saw it somewhere on the net. A story about a widower who nursed his toddler to comfort her after the mother died, and he started to produce milk. It was somewhere in south america, but I'm guessing any man could try. Imagine that! My babies daddy has such hairy nipples, I don't think they would want to try, nevermind him. :LOL


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i don't think the children would mind in the end. haha!

i love the foto of the rubber chicken.

they love every little part of the breast the same way we love every little part of their bodies. it is the sign of a healthy nursing relationship. i mean, the love i have for my kids is really in my heart, but it is accentuated and objectified with seeing their flesh. it is the same way for them.

leah, i'm technically more glad you are back together, but i'm glad you tried something to see how it worked for your mind's sake, ykim? it is something i go through from time to time, the on me all night, but is there some way you can fall asleep and be more comfortable with all that going on? i know that for me surrendering to their need usually fulfills it eventually, because when they can feel me pulling away more than they want they get even more clingy. and i have to just find a sleeping position i can stand with them in the meantime or else sometimes i just get too tired and don't hear the whimpering after i turn over. i guess i've got to worked to where most of it is from physical handling, that they have to come find me and push on me as opposed to me responding to a verbal cue. my main problem is that to nurse two i have to lay on my back which is rough on me, and i'll get up in the morning realizing i never got on my side.....if i need them to unlatch i have better luck with pushing closer, or just turning over without touching them or my breasts. i guess that how i know i finally have nipples of steel. i can tell just from the way clay nurses that he needs to go pee, and it usually is the clingy urgent incessant gnawing. so perhaps what you are dealing with is zac having the natural urge to be dry at night.

as for working, i don't know if you can control the nursing. i've been debating this as well for myself. if you just aren't available, they will adapt and not wake as often as opposed to you trying to alter the relationship while you are seemingly available.

i always called it nursing - clay says, "i want someone to nu-nurse me" and ruby says nuh-nuh if she speaks. i didn't want to use the word milk or the word breast. one lady i know comes over and says "oh, you love to suck titty!" to my kids and it makes me wince everytime and they look at her like she is from the moon. i have some friends where they call it "tay-tah", and at a birthday party three of us were nursing and one of the cousins, a ten year old boy walked in and said "wow, everyone is getting tay-tah" and i found it so refreshing, his natural acceptance of it.

i think i feel weird about selling slings personally because i'm overly sensitive to it being used and the entire nursing process. i have friends i love that mother differently but if i'm investing my time and energy to further closeness and nursing and i see it going awry, i tend to feel hurt. impartially it would be different but with the learning curve of the sling, it being cheaper and easier to fit ones with rings which tends towards more liability, i just get bogged down with my fears. i do happen to live in a sue happy place. i think i would feel better just donating slings and giving classes on them if i could and am better off working to make money on clothes and accessories that aren't so close to my heart. i've been debating this for years now and i still haven't found enough peace in me to sell what i find easy and worthwhile to make and truly believe in beyond a hobby. i feel confounded by capitalism here. i've been talking generally for the past year how i want to be paid for being the person i am but i guess i'm not strong enough to put my belief system on the market. i need someone to do that for me!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I've seen the men producing milk stories, and even shown them to Mike; he's also got hairy nipples, though, and when BeanBean latches on he freaks out. :LOL Then they both start laughing. I'm sure that my kids would get hairballs if they tried to nurse on him.







: I bet his milk would be super sweet too, because he's a diabetic.

I'm not sure who asked, but nursing two who are constantly at the breast is... well, it's pretty exhausting. The hardest part is when BeanBean wants to nurse and I've just gotten into a solo nursing position with BooBah; he's only now getting old enough to wait a few minutes, and not when he's tired or has a booboo or... well, anything that might make him want to nurse when he's not just looking for Mamma.









I love it when I'm in a tandem position; it's just such a warm feeling, having them both in my arms.







It makes me feel like I'm on top of the world, both of them nursing and looking up at me, holding hands and just being sweet and loveable...














BeanBean is very gentle with his sister, he loves her to bits and sometimes he'll pop off the nursie to kiss her. It's so sweet it just makes me melt every time.





















:heart

I'm really glad that I have nursies to offer him, and I'm glad he enjoys nursing. I do wish that he had a greater capacity for patience, but I suppose that if I'm patient, that'll come. :LOL Like I said, he is getting better at waiting.







I love nursing him to sleep, and I especially love night nursing him because he stays on the breast and doesn't mess around like he tends to during the day. I love looking down at my sleeping boy and kissing his messy hair, smelling him while he's nursing and he smells just like he did when he was my brand new baby boy...







It's the sweetest feeling ever. Don't get me wrong, I love nursing BooBah but nursing a newborn and nursing a toddler are entirely different feelings. I think it's because the newborn BooBah doesn't have a choice in the matter. All she can eat is nursies, and nursing her is much more of a utilitarian kind of deal; she latches on to eat. BeanBean latches on for food, but he also latches on for comfort, for loveloves, for booboos and for peace and quiet and such. It's a totally different experience, and I've loved nursing a toddler more and more.


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

my little dude calls it dee or mama dee. i tried to teach him bee but he insisted on dee awhile ago. but then after hanging out with solsticemama's ds, he now also calls it beuf or beufdee. we also say do you want some dada dee? he yells no and laughs. but he'll offer his dee to us. that really cracks us up. :LOL one evening before bed we were all hangin' out on the bed and ds wanted dada to have dee at the same time. it was funny but a little weird. i think weirder for dh.
solsticemama: dh can't even think about a #2! i don't think tandem had even crossed his mind. poor guy would probably give up on gettin' any lovin








i did nurse a friends dd at the same time as ds and it was so sweet but only lasted a few minutes, not enough time to get pics! i guess it would be funny one day if they got married, we could say they met at the boob :LOL


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

saritasmile-
i am so glad you have joined our little group, as your post made me chuckle numerous times. and it was a well needed chuckle, as i have been in a sour mood today.









dd calls nursing "munyas." there is actually logic behind this interesting word. i always called it num nums or nummies. she took the m off the first num, added it to the second num, and then changed the ending somehow. anyway, it is the cutest thing. she loves saying this word, even when she doesn't nec. want to nurse. of course, she is in love w/ her munyas.








we looked at dh's munyas today, and she thought it was intrigueing, but certainly did not want to suckle on that hairy chest. :LOL
she nurses her babies, and also her lion. and perhaps other things that i haven't noticed. sometimes i get to nurse her baby too.

i have often wondered, who is more in love w/ the other- is dd more in love w/ me? or am i in love more w/ her? crazy question, i know. and it doesn't matter. but i happened to see such a strong ray of love eminating from her, to me, the other day, that it made me question that my love was the stronger one. anyway, i feel such bliss being a momma sometimes.









and eilonwy, your words resonated w/ me deeply- nursing a toddler is so sweet! i can't imagine it ever ending. (i know, i am SUCH a first time mama!!! :LOL)








2


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

BeanBean asked me to nurse his favorite truck once. He was nursing, and then he held his truck on my other nursie and said "A truck is nursing," and held it there while he nursed. Very cute!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mona*

i have often wondered, who is more in love w/ the other- is dd more in love w/ me? or am i in love more w/ her? crazy question, i know. and it doesn't matter. but i happened to see such a strong ray of love eminating from her, to me, the other day, that it made me question that my love was the stronger one. anyway, i feel such bliss being a momma sometimes.









This is such a beautiful observation, Mona.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

See, I love posting here, where I get the best opinions/observations/advice. Yes, solsticemama, I definitely need to just enjoy the little moments I share with my son, because he'll be grown up before I know it and I'll miss our snuggly relationship. (I just can't even imagine him as a teenager, talking back to me and rolling his eyes at me, when right now he *LOVES* me so much, lol.) But you're right, I have a million things on my mind and for some reason it all has to be done NOW, and I try to roll away from DS so he can take a nap and he wakes up... I should kiss his forehead and nurse him back to sleep instead of groaning a complaint. My baby really does deserve all of me right now, and what I need to do is surrender to mothering. (Has it taken me this long to learn that? How sad...) I'll feel better because I won't have unrealistic expectations. Your thoughts made me really think, and I love that.

And that jumps into casina's post about just giving your children what they want (need) and lo-&-behold, they release their death grip on your breast, and give you a little more space. It's actually harder when you try to deprive them just for your own convenience. I am learning how easy that is every day, instead of fighting a battle of the wills with a toddler! Choose your battles, YK? Is it really life-altering if they dump the nicely folded clothes out onto the floor? No. A little inconvenient, yes, but if it keeps them quiet for a few minutes, who cares? I just take a deep breath, shake my head and smile, and get on with life. Is it life-altering if they get a hold of DH's pocket knife, or a book of matches? Yes, it's dangerous, and I'll remove them from dangerous situations. They'll be angry at me for a few minutes, but I'm doing my job as a parent. I used to be running around here like a wild women, just yelling about everything and saying "Why are you always getting into trouble?!?" I can save myself a lot of energy by shaking it off, and giving in to the the natural order of chaos that is childhood.

And yes, casina, I definitely think the pee pee issue is a big one for us for some reason. In fact, today he woke up halfway through his nap to pee, and had to be nursed back to sleep. He definitely doesn't like to stay asleep when he has to pee. Weird. And I have to admit that I *like* sleeping with my baby- most importantly I get to SLEEP so I can function during the daytime, but I also love cuddling and just staring at him sleeping, with his perfect skin and long eyelashes and the little flashes of dreams in his smile... Awesome. He'll be coming with me to work for as long as my employer can deal with it. It's a home-health job, so it's not too inconvenient. To the real world he's almost two and no longer needs to be nursing to sleep. But to me he's a small baby who has a sucking habit that his Daddy can't pacify. :LOL

Oh- and I did hear that men can make milk. Not large amounts of it, but they do have milk ducts and it is possible. Zachary never really tried to nurse on DH but he'd always look at DH's nipples and say "bobby?" and maybe give them a quick kiss. DH actually tried to get DS to latch on a few times when he was inconsolable as a newborn and I was out of the house, but DS new the difference! Julianna tries to do everything her brother does, so everytime she climbs up into my lap she'll lift my shirt and say "ba ba!" She'll put her lips on my nipple, but she won't suck. I always try to tell her "You don't like ba ba, honey" to try to keep her out of my shirt, but she insists on at least getting a peek at them







. She does the same thing to DH. She doesn't really understand what they're for, but she knows that Zach likes them and puts his mouth on them :LOL Sometimes DH lies down with us when I'm getting DS to sleep and he'll pretend to nurse and Zachary thinks it's SO funny! He is also enthralled by any other babies nursing- he STARES at them and then he usually wants to nurse.

Jasanna, I'm really interested in the FBs, if they're larges. We need to add a few more to our stash- Julianna is going through them faster now that she's bigger, so we sometimes run out if I don't wash a load in time... PM me if you haven't sold them yet.

I am so sorry I wrote a freakin book here... Good night, mamas


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Leah...that is so cute that your dh would try to let Zach latch on!









I'm behind in this topic (again). Just wanted to say hi to you all...been busy trying to get my diaper biz up and running. I'm almost there--all I have to do is write up the descriptions and put 'em up on my site! (I'm nervous, though!)


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

casina--
how are you? i've been thinking of you lots since ivan began to venture that direction.







s and








i hope you are safe

lisa







2


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

is ivan sick?

i'm just beginning to get out of my funk. that means i'm crankily mad instead of listlessly whining. the bacterial infection has been here for over two weeks. ruby has had fever the last few nights with a bark. i know how to behave with the illness. i know we are developing our immune systems. we've been sick enough times that i know this is no big deal and it will go away. but once i start feeling better, ironically i feel aggravated since i feel well enough to notice. i have to find my place and my peace again. all the plans in my head are now pushed back for a month. i'm impatient, i'm overwhelmed, and my home is gross. my husband is working way too much and i keep reminding myself not to get mad at him. it's all in my mind, which is the hardest part. when i get this way everything seems wrong. it's so funny that i consciously know that my life has to be going good for me to afford to complain!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mona*
casina--
how are you? i've been thinking of you lots since ivan began to venture that direction.







s and








i hope you are safe

So do I! I saw on the news that the path of Ivan might go to Loisiana, and I thought, "OH NO, Casina lives there"... I hope he doesn't visit you!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I still have the large fuzzibunz if anyone is interested, BTW.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

I feel so bad, i never seem to have time for a long post lately....

but i wanted to say, hey casina, thinking of you, and we're only 7 - 8 hours away if you need a place to crash for awhile


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

is it phoenix? i can't remember. that would be really interesting though the idea of the car ride makes me balk.

no, i really don't worry about the hurricanes. i'm extremely blase about it compared to the locals. though catering events got cancelled so damen has two days off all of the sudden. woo-hoo! at walmart today there was an entire aisle of bottled water people were grabbing. and the interstate traffic is crazy from everyone migrating from new orleans to texas. what can happen? my water might go out. my power might go out and i would put some food in the ice chest. my kids would complain about the lack of lights and tv and computer. if my mil or mom have power we will go there. hurricanes are nothing like earthquakes and tornadoes. for one thing, there is ample warning.
and hey, i've already lost a home from flooding. i still have the treasured memory of deciding to leave before i couldn't get out anymore and especially Before Dark and the van was already parked on higher ground. it had rained hard for awhile (tropical storm allison) and the water was coming up faster that day. my trailer in floodland was 5.5 ft off the ground, above the hundred year floodline. clay was a five months old, and reed was almost 3. i did not know i would never live there again. i put items in a garbage bag for an overnight, clay was in the sling, reed was on my back, and i wedged an umbrella somehow. it takes alot for me to use an umbrella and really it was for reed. the water was up to my thighs. i walked the few hundred feet to the main road, soaked and dripping, terrified i would drop the garbage bag with all our most precious things. i was thankful i could carry the children i had without having to wait for help. my dh went there later and spent the night with the dog and had to row out the next day.

it just now occurred to me that i could have made two trips. i was afraid to be separated from the kids for any reason. nine months pregnant with clay i waded with the water that high around ten at night with the beams of the van to follow since out power went out. otherwise it was pitchdark in our part of the woods. i remember being irritated that damen was right, this is why we could not have a homebirth. that night i developed a fear of being in the water.

seems ridiculous and almost fictional now though i now have goosebumps. i guess it's also a best selling sling story. recalling it certainly puts things in perspective.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Well I was ready to post something and now I've just read Casina's haunting post and I've been brought to a more visceral breath that I'd prefer to stay with for the moment.

I have an image of you, momma, carrying your babies to safety. It's an archetypal image isn't it. It's bear energy, bear medicine. It's stronger than us, it's cellular and it makes my soul lie down in quiet awe at the astonishment and grace of being female, being a mother.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *punkprincessmama*
I feel so bad, i never seem to have time for a long post lately....


Me too! Hopefully soon I'll have something enlightening to add! :LOL


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

today i was watching ruby's face as she eliminated and i thought she just looked so beautiful, like she was purifying herself right then.

ANYWAY, she has been taking a very early nap, like three hours after she wakes and that seems to be working out.

my midwife for ruby said she did have to ride in a rowboat more than once since she had clients in new orleans which i hear is below sealevel. i remember we were on the subject because of hurricane warnings and she was bringing a mamma to her home thirty miles north. the woman was edgy since the mayor declared that all women in the last month of pg should check into hospitals in case of storm. we were sure the hospitals were not happy with this idea and i guess that's what they do routinely. makes me glad i'm not in india, in a tree amidst floodwaters, giving birth as i hold another child. some story a friend told me long ago, dunno if it is true but i'm sure it's happenned before. really though, generally hurricanes scares here are like a breath of fresh air to me, a holiday. people get a little excited, usual business gets disturbed, the weather cools down, and we all feel a little more grounded, then we drive around all the trees, the natural pruning on the roads.

i enjoyed your book leah. and now i'm wondering about heather.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
makes me glad i'm not in india, in a tree amidst floodwaters, giving birth as i hold another child. some story a friend told me long ago, dunno if it is true but i'm sure it's happenned before.

On one of the birth shows (extreme births, amazing births, something like that) there's a woman who gave birth in a tree amidst floodwaters; I think she was in Africa, though. When I think of the story, I just remember the EMT who said "The kids in the tree kept pointing to her belly, but I couldn't figure out what they were trying to say."







By the time they got there with another helicopter (they rescued the kids first because, well, they were kids) she had already had the baby.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

nak
casina- where in LA do you live?


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i'm in baton rouge. should be no big deal with hurricane. this eve i saw lots of people stiting on their porches enjoying the wind. tomorrow the city closes down.
i braved the hordes and traffic going to a store today and it's just funny. the shelves completely emptied are bread and beer.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
i braved the hordes and traffic going to a store today and it's just funny. the shelves completely emptied are bread and beer.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Well my friend had her baby last night. In the hospital. With an epidural. And she said it was the most amazingly peaceful experience. Compared to her first, no epidural, it was a dream, she said. She got to hold the baby almost immediately afterwards. He's very mellow, latched on immediately with a good, strong suck. She sounds so grounded and rooted and present and strong. It was a fast, harmonious labor compared to her first long, drawn out, painful, exhausting labor that left her with lots of stitches and a good 6 mos of recovery.

I have to admit it it sounds pretty good to me. I had ds in the water with no meds and it was the hardest thing I've ever done. I know there are tons of studies that show the negative effects of epidurals and then there's the whole psychic component so it's still a question for me but she just sounded so amazingly peaceful and strong which is what's sparked this little monologue.

Speaking of which I wonder how Heather is doing?


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Has anyone heard from Kristin (kerc) lately?


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

i have been worndering the same thing brayg.... i imagine she is jsut loaded down by school/work.

solstice mama- yeah, while i was in labor i thought that to not feel pain would be nice.







but i would never trade my med free home birth labor for ANYTHING!!!!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
Well my friend had her baby last night. In the hospital. With an epidural. And she said it was the most amazingly peaceful experience. Compared to her first, no epidural, it was a dream, she said. She got to hold the baby almost immediately afterwards. He's very mellow, latched on immediately with a good, strong suck. She sounds so grounded and rooted and present and strong. It was a fast, harmonious labor compared to her first long, drawn out, painful, exhausting labor that left her with lots of stitches and a good 6 mos of recovery.

I have to admit it it sounds pretty good to me. I had ds in the water with no meds and it was the hardest thing I've ever done. I know there are tons of studies that show the negative effects of epidurals and then there's the whole psychic component so it's still a question for me but she just sounded so amazingly peaceful and strong which is what's sparked this little monologue.

Speaking of which I wonder how Heather is doing?

I know that lots of women are obsessed with natural labor and birth as the one and only way to go, but I have to tell you that I found my ceserian delivery to be a much more pleasant experience overall than my vaginal delivery. I labored naturally for more than three days and got nothing but pain for my efforts; the only part of my labor with BeanBean which I don't regret to this day was when I finally got an epidural.

With BooBah, I never had any labor at all because she turned, broke my water, and her cord prolapsed all without me having a single contraction. (Well, that's not quite true: I had two contractions while she was turning, but they weren't "real".) She was born by emergency cesearian, and while I do wish that I had experienced some labor (I had a hard time making the transition from "pregnant" to "mama" with her) I had planned to have an epidural when it was appropriate.

I am at my mother's house, and my sister is downstairs yelling and swearing very loudly because BeanBean had an accident on the floor. He *always* has accidents here because this house is very very loud and stressful. Just *being* here is stressful. She's throwing a fit about how nasty we are, screaming at the top of her lungs that "he needs to wear a f****** diaper or a f****** pullup or he needs to get the f**** out of this house! If the dog pissed on the floor like that he'd be out!" (Note: The dog, which she bought because she insisted on having it, barks and screams and cries all the time. She rarely walks it, and only occasionally is she the person who lets the dog out into the yard.)

Now that BeanBean is nursing with me, she's yelling at her own children, swearing at them to "change that god damned shirt!" and "find your other f***** shoe!" My niece came storming up stairs, fists clenched and grumbling. "Now do you see why I hate my mother?!? She's evil and mean, she made me change my pants because I slipped." and continuing on and on like that. Then she said to her self, in a more calm voice, "It doesn't really matter, I'm going home with Rynna tomorrow."

Earlier this afternoon, she asked my mother "Why can't Rynna just buy me? She has a really nice family!"














She goes on and on like this, all the time. She really thinks that if I just save up some money, I'll be able to buy her and she can stay in my house forever.







What a wreck. I really can't blame her for wanting to stay with me; her only problems with my house are that we don't have any junk food or sugary cereal around, we don't have a freezer, and it's kind of messy. That's nothing on this house. She seriously wants me to adopt her. When she got to the house she said "Can I call BeanBean my brother now? Please? I really want a little brother!" I asked if I bought her, should I buy her sister too and she said "You don't have to, BooBah can be my sister." *sigh* What on earth do you say to that?

My younger niece has been asking to nurse every time she sees BeanBean doing it. She's four years old, not my child, and *huge* (44", 55 lbs). I told her that if she wants to nurse she'd have to ask her mother and she said "No, my mother hates me, my mother is leaved! I want to take a nurse with BeanBean!" and then began the pitiful, fake crying wail she does. (Oh yes, it's very fake.)


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

My first birth was *agonizing* and I'd do it all over again if I had to. My second birth was what you sometimes read about ..."orgasmic, painless" birth. I'd (obviously) do that again too. :LOL I don't believe in the medicalization of birth, but to everyone, their own... if it worked for you, good.

eilonwy- sounds like your sis has some "issues". Maybe tell your neice that she's priceless, and no amount of money could buy her.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

whew! sorry about the nieces. i get the feeling that aunts can be important. it sounds like they just don't feel loved, and there are many ways to love if the mom chooses this path.

i think there are commonalities with births for the same mother, but the births can vary with each child. length of labor cannot be predicted. hospital births locally for me are very factory done which is why i did not choose that option - here they tend to epidural no matter what so that they can charge for it. i was talking to a lady pg with her 7th that had her last one here and she is still mad that they pitocined her at 39 weeks and epiduraled before she even dilated. i think it depends on the doctor and facility and the mamma's need for control. my births with back labor were very different from the one without back labor. and i think i really need to be alone because i am sensitive to vibes, especially my husband's. although i find him a comfortable presence, it is not exactly the soothing kind i want for labor. i want an unassisted if there is a next time because then i can focus on the bear energy without reminders of any other way, or reminders that i'm "supposed" to need help. i think the best part for me, aside from the wonderful feeling after, was not having to travel, even though i have an ability to get used to medicalized settings. birth in modern times can be very situational, and ultimately it comes down to the mother's control factor. i do also think that our bodies get more experienced each time, though that does not necessarily affect the pain factor.

i'm needed.....


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i think generally when i hear birth stories, that technically the way the birth went is not a factor as much as the expectation, or feeling that any decisions were owned by the mamma. like even with a c-section, when a mother can say even in the five seconds before, i am okay with this, then it changes the way the situation is perceived even to the point of how she heals.

rynna, i thought about it some more and it seems your sister and her daughters are cut from the same cloth and reacting the same way, which is habitually wanting something besides what they have, and complaining and feeling upset. some people tend to go this route and i think you are in a position to be overly sensitive to it. i think it is definitely an unpleasant situation, but your perception of it may be worse than it actually is for any of them. at least they are used to each other. this wild idea i'm having here relates to how my own mom, and a "friend" operates. they both talk worse than they mean. and though it is hard for me when my friend's kids and husband feel badly and i cannot help, i have learned the hard way that they have emotional calluses in places i have no defense at all, and i have to just distance myself from it. only when i am strong and assertive can i gently influence the situation, which of course starts with forgiveness and giving love, especially to the mom. and i'm not quite that strong yet - still working on the homefront.

not even a raindrop over here! but a real off day for my dh. and i turn 34 tomorrow.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
even with a c-section, when a mother can say even in the five seconds before, i am okay with this, then it changes the way the situation is perceived even to the point of how she heals.

You know...I didn't have any regrets about my 2 c-sections until recently (the first was emergency...the 2nd was planned). The first one was harder to recover from because I labored, pushed, etc. and generally didn't know what to expect, but I didn't dwell on it and never felt cheated out of the whole birth experience. The 2nd was a breeze...I was totally confident in my decision then and still never felt cheated. I recovered in a snap and went about my life. I now long for a vaginal birth and if I get pg again, I will go for one.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

: tomorrow Casina!


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

HAAAAAPPPYYYY BBIIIIIIITHDDAAAYYYYYY CASiNA!

HERE is a message from dd
:
222222242222220002222222222333411000gedsetfs
00000000


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

I'm loving this conversation about birth. I'm thinking a lot about how we will bring our next baby to our family. I am praying that we will be open to all options and if there is a baby out there that needs us that would be fine rather than getting pg again. We had started to look at adoption last time after 3 miscarraiges, then got pg with ds. I had an epidural with ds after about 15 hours of labor and being awake for 21 hours. I slept, woke up and pushed him out. I've been thinking lately about my options for next time. Meaning, to have the epidural again or not. I must admit that my pain tolerance is not what I expected it to be.

I just wonder what the plan for our little family is...I am excited to find out! So glad that you are not getting hammered Casina. I've been thinking about you this week. Happy Birthday. I am also anxious to hear about Heather.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

: Birthday Blessings, Casina







:

I've been thinking lots on my post about my friend's birth and everyone's subsequent responses.

*mamajaza* if everyone could birth like you did w/Samaya then of course one wouldn't want any intervention. I love knowing that you were able to give birth this way









Mona, I, too, am glad I went meds free because I think I would always wonder if I could have done it w/out them. A meds free waterbirth at the birthing center is what I aspired to w/ds and that's what I got.

casina your post makes me think that somewhere in your being you are completely surrendered. I think, ultimately, this has a profound effect on the way things unfold in a birth but the surrender has to be cellular not just in the mind YK.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Happy Birth day, fellow virgo!








34 years... in numerology you are 3+4= 7... the number of the goddess.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Hope you are having a wonderful day Casina









Well things have been a bit hectic around here lately. Dd wasn't feeling well for several days, and was nursing every hour for a full day. That brought back some memories, I had forgotten that full of milk feeling, the achiness and how sensitive breasts can be!

Dd is back to being a mama-only girl, which is flattering, but tiring too. Dh is trying to take it in stride but his feelings are hurt none the less. She seems to be making some gigantic leaps in her verbal skills and social skills too, which may have something to do with it. She will have NOTHING to do with the potty though







I'm not sure why, but I'm not pushing. She is all about her "brookies" as she calls them. She has never been interested before, but now she loves to pick one out, loves to help fold them, etc. She really loves her new ones from Brayg







They are SUPER soft, btw.







Anyhow, a funny note about dd calling her dipes "brookies" she instigated that, and it took a few times before we understood that brookies means diapers. Well a week or so later I am reading "Don't Let's Go to the Dogs Tonight" which is an autobiography of sorts of growing up in Africa, where they call underwear Brookies!!!!! I was floored. It really makes you think, doesn't it, about past lives and such.

As for the discussion on birthing.... I think it is such a personal event. For me, I could never do an epidural. For me, I wanted to be present, I needed to be... I had such a lovely experience, no meds, it was everything I wanted it to be really. i was in water almost the entire time, at a birthing center. It was quiet and dark and intimate and beautiful. I'm looking forward to my next experience which I have decided will be at home and in water. For me it was all about being prepared, having the knowledge, understanding how my body works. Mamajaza, I aspire to your "orgasmic, painless" birth (you birthing goddess you) I would say that Mariah's birth was painless, it was intense, but painless. Orgasmic it was not, but maybe the second time around









Eilonwy, I am sorry you are in such a difficult position with your nieces.

I have been wondering about kerc too, and hoping that all is well with her and her family.

Also thinking about Heather and her new little one


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

solsticemama, i'm wondering if you had back labor. also, i wonder if the pelvis shifts permanently after the first vaginal birth. i know my rib cage is certainly changed. i don't know what it is about birth exactly that makes it the way it is for different women. like i find it interesting that it is not an exact science to predict how a woman will birth, i guess that takes some experience of course, like getting to know hundreds of women and attending their births.

but i can't figure it out peripherally. i have one friend that has two c-sections and she has similarities to other women i know of that have had c-sections in this particular hospital (basically the baby factory of baton rouge). they tend to be a person that detests being sick and wants so much desperate control over the birth that the system backfires because everything gets so tense. but then i have a friend i love that i get mad at all the time with email that incessantly complains, tries every drug possible for her emotional and physical problems, won't leave her house or socialize or move even though her home drives her crazy, et cetera et cetera fostering an insane amount of control over every little thing and her body and her awful pregnancies, and she can give birth like a cat and has done it twice, her first in that same oppressive hospital, and her second was like five contractions and here's the baby. it's baffling.

i'm a goddess! well, i was sure acting like a huffy tempermental goddess a few minutes ago. my littles aren't convinced that sleeping every night is necessary.

i had dinner with my dh at the new trendy sushi bar by campus while my mom kept the kids. i had a good time even though i almost backed out, and we had cancelled trying to do it yesterday. it was our first date in three years (doctor appointments do not count! though they were kinda nice in a sad way too). i love getting older. though i noticed the other day that i have a crevice next to my brow. i would have never known or confessed before that i would be disturbed by a wrinkle.

at some point, kids definitely start to forge new bonds aside from the primary mom. and the new bonds are a little freer, less about comfort, less about being grounded and more about learning and enjoying life and it's zest. my dh can tell you all about how being the star of a fan club can be a huge and smothering responsibility. punk, i know your dh will get his time and when it does, you can roar with laughter about it because you'll be ready for it then(and come sit on the porch swing with me!) fun daddies are like rock stars, and the horde never stops aching for them.....until around age ten or so i've heard.....


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

So i'm just wondering (yawn) if any one else's toddler isn't sleeping through the night just yet... tell me im not hte only one please (yawn)

Casina, I would love to come swing on your porch. Any time mama!


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

omg no..... punk, you are not the only one :LOL
dd usually alternates bw decent nights and sucky nights. well, she has been on a roll of sucky nights for a few days and i'm tired of it, no pun intented. :LOL
she has a very sensitive tummy, so it is probably related to me not eating 100% pure. SIGH


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

All the birth talk has me thinking more on ds's birth. No, Casina, no back labor but very very fast. Thus very intense. I think I went from 4 to 9.5 cms in about 2 hrs. I, too, am fascinated by the variables in the birth experience, you just never know how a woman will birth. I've been surprised by lots of my friends' birthing outcomes. Anyway lots still to think on privately.

No sleeping thru the night here. Not even close to it. But right now I have to admit I'm really enjoying nightnursing. I look forward to our time in bed with the dark as soft blanket over us and the silence and ds's little body curled into mine. There was a time I never imagined I would feel this way.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

have been away for a few days for the jewish holidays.

no sleeping thru the night here either. I nightweaned in early june and kept the 4 am nursing. she still wakes up most nights between 12-2 for water.

birthing....i had a very difficult 36 hour back labor birth. i had a midwife and a doula whom i ADORE and who supported me so much. no epidural, though i did have some stadol after 25 hours when i was still only 5 centimeters and really needed sleep. then after 3 hours at 9.5 she broke my water and i went back to 6







the water had been psuhing on the cervix not the baby. i got a little more stadol and some pitocin to get me back to 10. the drug wore off in time for 3 hours of pushing. still i am so grateful i didn't have an epidural or a c-section. my midwife told me that with a doc i would have had a c for sure based on how i progressed. i don't plan to have anymore though for a variety of reason including my labor.

birthdays ...... i will be 38 tuesdays YIKES that's old!

Amy


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

Not even close to sleeping through here either. That's one of the things making me hedge about getting pg! I'll be so tired!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

no sleeping eight hours straight here. though i'm getting lots more sleep than ever. sometimes i can convince myself that uninterrupted sleep is a weird modern thing, that in another day and age, i would have to wake and tend a fire, or worry about rain or wolves or thieves. but then, i'm over the hypervigilance. my kids can all get up for a couple of hours and i will still be conked out. i have to get up when i hear reed's voice hit a different pitch which means i need to feed him some protein before he loses it. they all feed themselves when they get up now but the results vary.....

punkprincess, you sound so much like what i remember about with my first baby. i've probably said this before. it was very hard since i'm a night person and he is a morning person, and wakes early and ready, and he was so restless and shrieky otherwise. now when he sleeps he is really totally out though he still kicks and talks in his sleep (all the males in the family do...). i think it started around age of three and half. i know that sounds like forever from now but it is also the latest "sleeping through the night" (like five hours straight) age i've heard of.
really, i promise it will end at one time, before you menopause or before they can drive. i think the hardest for me with sleep deprivation is the lack of dreams and the fundamental issues with that. i used to take griffonia (5-htp) sometimes, maybe some of you are interested in trying that. it definitely helped me at times, especially during menstruation, but i would only take it for a few days at a time and the last time i felt bad afterwards for a few days. the other thing i learned four years into mothering reed was that whether i put him to bed at eight or ten or midnight, he still got up around the same time. i had to put him to bed before he looked or acted tired. after a week of ten hour nights he started to sleep better and feel better during the day.
oh, and cutting caffeine has always made a difference, though i have had to pick and choose the balance since i enjoy these vices. right now i'm off coffee and coca cola again, because ruby steals it! i guess she'll truly make an honest woman out of me. but i still think the best medicine for me is to get alone time, which is actually not alone, but away from responsibility time, and chatting with a friend in a public place long enough to appreciate the home life when i get back.

in fact now i'm confused that i would have to have no sleep again with another baby if i have one. i've been just moseying along for six years with the alteration of sleep. this is the oldest my youngest has ever been. she looks like a baby to me, but with the boys at this age i already saw them as "not the baby". once i would be near to having a littler one the older ones would suddenly seem huge and grown up and i would begin to treat them so.

i feel a little guilty here i can't even complain about ruby. she is like a four year old that doesn't talk or use the toilet, basically. she is an utter delight. i'm into a groove with the tandem nightnursing. they are my cuddles.

once the water breaks in labor, it is a wholly different thing as well. very intense.

me and dh spent most of the weekend looking for one piece of paper that we haven't found, and creating a vortex of bad feelings relating to everything in life. at least we got over it this afternoon, but then...we still haven't found it and it is an asap kind of thing. durned modern life and pieces of paper....


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

beanbean came home from nicu sleeping 4.5-5 hours a night. recently, he's been getting up to pee and nurse, but he doesn't fully wake up. he's got a cold today, and spent the better part of yesterday in bed. i'm feeling sick and miserable, but i don't have a cold, just a general malaise. i'm sure the depression isn't helping. blah.

my water broke about 4 days before beanbean was born, after 12 hours of contractions with no pain pills (i'd been having regular, painful contractions for several months, with terbutaline and vicodin). i'm sill greatful for the epidural.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *punkprincessmama*
She really loves her new ones from Brayg







They are SUPER soft, btw.


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## EnjoyNatural (Sep 20, 2004)

Brooke is doing much more than expected. Since she was already born 3 months early we had no idea she would be so advanced. I guess she is eager to catch up. She is starting to potty train. I only think so because her sisters are. She is miss chatty Kathy too! She repeats everything and remembers it in context. lol

She has had a cold with cough for about 2 weeks now and she is getting irritated by it all. She will cough and say "Uuggh, gross". And if she chokes on the phlegm she says "I chooking". (choking)

This age is SO much FUN!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Went to see my friend and her 4 day old yesterday. Oy, it's hard. Her almost 2 yr. old is having a really difficult time adjusting, lots of emotional outbursts and nursing aggressively, he bit her. I didn't have much to be able to say to her since I've not walked that road before but I told her I'd post here 'cause some of you mammas are in this vibe right now or have been there? She was so upset, tears and fatigue because she felt she just couldn't be there for her son the way she has been in the past. Thankfully there is lots of extended family who have been able to meet some of his needs.

*mamaJ* and eilonwy, casina do you have any suggestions I could share with her?

I was able to get her fixed up with one of my slings and I left her looking happier than when I arrived. We got little babe high up on her front tummy to tummy, sleeping and mama's arms free and a smile. Definitely a reality check in terms of what it would be like with 2.

I'm feeling a little at sea right now 'cause she and I were in a great groove with the park and our boys. I was finally feeling more plugged in to the communal side of mothering YK which had positive residue in other aspects of life as well. Now it's back to solo for awhile *sigh* How 'bout everyone else? Do you get out with other moms and toddlers much? I have to admit that I find it hard when mothering philosophies vary greatly.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
really, i promise it will end at one time, before you menopause or before they can drive. ....











how do you always know the right thing to say Casina? Thank you so much.

oh! i had more to say...but dd is awake from her nap. adios ladies!


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
Do you get out with other moms and toddlers much? I have to admit that I find it hard when mothering philosophies vary greatly.

I do...at first it was hard because of that differing philosophy, but I'm learning how to deal with that. I don't want to be an evangelist (although I felt like I should at first) so I can only hope that the subtle things I do (like nurse in public and change Owen's cloth diaper in front of other mamas) will either rub off on them or at least spark a curiosity.

Owen and I go to ECFE (early childhood family education) classes at our school. I used to work for them, and actually am now an employee again, working one morning a week. First we went to Baby's Day Out and now we're in Toddler Time. In January we'll be on to Twogether Time. In baby class, I met a mama who I adore. We get along so well and her dd is only 3 weeks older than Owen. I've just converted her to cloth diapers (she had me make a dozen for her a couple weeks ago) and she's reading a few non-vax books I borrowed to her. She said that she doesn't think she will vax her next child.

The kids get along so well and we get along so well that we have a standing playdate every Monday morning. We do one week at my house; the next at hers. I so totally love it. I work on Tues. mornings (I take Owen with me, as I work the sibling care room and basically it's like a playdate and I get paid for it) and we have class on Thursday mornings. We're plenty busy with other kids, but it's only for 2 hours a time so it's not overwhelming.

Today at work, Owen befriended a little boy who will be 3 in January. They played so well together...it was amazing to see my little one being a "big boy". :*) He just seems so big now, especially since we have 4 infants (ranging from 1 month to 6 months) in the sib care room at one time.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Welcome Emily!


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

I have a very tight circle of other mothers that I met at a Jewish Child and Family Services moderated new mothers group. (most not jewish they just run the group) We graduated when our children turned a year and about 7 of us continue to meet during that time slot every week at each others homes. I am by far the crunchiest, all the rest vax, there are 2 other cloth diaperers, some sling, all nursed for a year some a few months longer and one (besides me still nursing) some cried it out in depsration. We try to be nonjudgemental share information and just enjoy one anothers company. The kids all love each other and I would leave GA with any of these mothers in a heartbeat if nec. It has been great to see the kids grow up. We also have a monthly mom's night out which is GREAT! I feel like this is my village


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

about compatible friends...me and mamafern hang out a lot. I had a really good friend all through high school, which i recently befriended again, but all those old "issues" started coming up, and I haven't seen her much since. She has a little grrl too, but 5 months younger than haeven. I don't have the energy to try and be friends with other people that don't share my ideals. I went to a LLL meeting a month ago, and they are great, but maybe not for me. I'm a "one person at a time" kind of person. I love this group, though









to solsticemammas friend~~ It *is* very difficult, but as one smart mamma once (or twice) told me, getting used to the sling is imperative to succesfully mothering two. I use a moby-type wrap that I made ( just long peice of 100% stretchy cotton), and I can nurse in it while doing anything. I find if I try to nurse in a regular sling, I have to support baby's head. Moby-wrap=hands free. I have to change diapers while slinging the baby sometimes (very difficult), do laundry, wash dishes, last night I made spanikopita while tandem nursing, if you believe me!!!!

on the subject of having two babies close together, I'm going to the doctor tomorrow to talk about getting an IUD. :LOL I'm so paranoid that I can get pregnant any time.

I better go...


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
Went to see my friend and her 4 day old yesterday. Oy, it's hard. Her almost 2 yr. old is having a really difficult time adjusting, lots of emotional outbursts and nursing aggressively, he bit her. I didn't have much to be able to say to her since I've not walked that road before but I told her I'd post here 'cause some of you mammas are in this vibe right now or have been there? She was so upset, tears and fatigue because she felt she just couldn't be there for her son the way she has been in the past. Thankfully there is lots of extended family who have been able to meet some of his needs.

*mamaJ* and eilonwy, casina do you have any suggestions I could share with her?









2 i think what helps the most is understanding that i really am important to this group, and that my health (mental and physical) is just as important as beanbean's or boobah's. i love my kids, and most of the time i feel like I'm a good mother, but i need short breaks on occasion and the entire family is better off if I take them. I work extra hard not to feel guilty about it when I take a short break (like, drive to the grocery store and leave the kids with Dadda) because I know that we're all better off for it. When I come home I'm ready to nurse both of them and I'm much more relaxed, and it's a really good thing.

The fact that BeanBean is still nursing definately helps as well, because it reminds me that while he's a big boy who walks and talks and listens and such, he's still a baby. Not quite two is not an adult by anyone's standards; nursing him reconnects me with him and reminds me that he's still my little boy. I get to remember why I wanted to have kids in the first place, and why I thought I could handle it. The first 3 weeks of two kids were probably the most difficult weeks of my entire life, but we have survived and I feel pretty confident in my mothering most of the time. Even now, when I have a horrific headache and my son is covered in syrup he found who knows where... hm, I think it's bathtime. :LOL


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

I am so glad you and your famiy are safe from the storm, casina.

I love all this talk about new babies. I am mentally charging up for the next go 'round. Zachary is still very needy and clingy, but I think he'll be ready to share me by winter/spring of '06 or so, which is when we are planning on having another one. I so hope the next pregnancy goes better than my last. I WILL NOT freak out about a few Braxton-Hicks contractions this time, and I will avoid Terbutaline for as long as possible. A friend of mine from the Birth Circle gave me gobs of info and advice (things to add to my diet, supplements to use, mental preparation, etc.), so I think I will be better prepared to handle preterm labor if it happens again. She had two previous pre-term babies, hospital born, and just delivered a healthy FULL TERM baby at her home last week! I'm just ready to hold a newborn again, I just LOVE that feeling.









Z. has been waking up to nurse at 4am, and he kicks and tosses and turns until we get up at 6:30 or so... SO, I've been waking up at 4 every morning because I can't get back to sleep when he's tearing me up. He MUST sleep better before we add a newborn into the mix!

My SIL had a hysterectomy so I'm covering her shifts at the pediatric group home where I used to work. (Crystal used to live there, it's owned by my parents...) It's definitely weird being back at work again. I work 12 hour shifts, so you can imagine how much milk I have at the end of the day! I feel the tingle of let-down during the day and I wonder if DS is crying/thinking about me at that time. I would HATE HATE HATE working full time and leaving my baby for so long. I like a break now and then, but not to that extreme- being at work more hours than you're at home. I'm grateful for the extra money, but I don't want to go back to work full-time anytime soon.

I miss hearing from kerc, too.

Peace


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i know when i had clay, my second child, i felt devastated in many ways. recuperation from birth was also more difficult. every older woman that visited me told me that i would bleed twice as long. i was so mad that no one had warned me of that possibility and that my life was so sheltered that i know nothing about it beforehand and the many parameters of having two children. essentially i had to rebirth myself. either i could find a way to handle it, or continue to feel completely miserable and drag everyone else down with me. and oh, i'm really good at that. anyway, no matter what happens, it takes time for my flesh to adjust to changes. only then can my mind begin to consider controlling other parameters.

meanwhile, the newborn can be considered a form of pregnancy on the outside. it is no disservice to the baby for mammas to not fawn over them. actually doing this of course is another thing - this is where the sling comes in. it is a great upheaval to discover that you treasure this new child, when in utero it was hard to believe that you could love any other child the way you love the firstborn. and the firstborn suddenly seems older and larger and one expects them to have maturer behaviour. i think it is inherently biological to feel this way. and it takes acceptance of these feelings to integrate them. solsticemama, tell your friend i say that it is okay to feel all the things she feels and to forgive herself, to take it easy on her healing body. then do the things she knows makes her child feel loved concentrating on him only - for fifteen to thirty minutes a day. i know that it is hard. but it is the acceptance that things are hard, that have made things easier for me. one minute at a time. one breath at a time.

lately because of silly problems (paperwork and fighting with my dad?!) and dealing with illness, i found myself saying something i've essentially banned, which was, "i can't do this". (i've banned it so well that my kids have never uttered the word can't) and then eventually i scold myself to snap out of it. if i really couldn't do it, i wouldn't have been doing it all along. tomorrow's another day.

which reminds me, eilonwy and mamajaza, i've been thinking about you both lately.

i have found that playdates can be wonderful and awful. they can certainly feel contrived....because they are. i also do not think that same age play is necessary, and only ruby out of my three has shown an ability to do this. i also like playdates with three or four mammas. it is easier on everyone to not feel obligated to socialize. as for dealing with other parents and kids, it is somewhere a balance of respect for each other, and confidence in myself with mothering. my children's behaviour do not directly define me as a person. i have also learned to trust my kids reactions to people. there is a woman i've learned i cannot be friends with, though on paper we have so many common interests. she is more judgmental than i can tolerate. but my kids knew that two years ago and i just tried to work out their anxiousness in her home at the time.

i remember complaining for a year that i was doomed to have no friends since i am so intense and weird and choosy and then i had to add my kids preferences to the mix. i used to cruise different parks at different times to find people to chat with. now that i've been at homeschool group settings which has a diversity of parenting styles (though no outward spanking at functions), i have found that i have learned be social with those i outwardly have nothing in common with, since there is generally respect and lack of judgmental attitudes with the homeschoolers i know. in fact it is the only way we can kind of get along. my kids learn quickly but do not learn in an osmosis fashion. one time at a potluck i was livid that a mother yelled repeatedly across my yard at reed to stop doing something he is allowed to do. looking back, i can laugh that he just found it odd and ignored her. (i get in big trouble all over for that, not instilling obedience and acquiescence to other adults) my point is that my influence is strong and primary. yes, they can pick up little habits and ideas and words here and there and experiment, but that is also part of experiencing more of the world.

yes, it is hard emerging from the womb of the home, without village, and needing community. and nursing makes me oh so more sensitive. yesterday i lost faith in people when i went to renew my license at the dmv, and they would not give me my old one (they gave my dh his a few months ago) when it had been promised to my son and i asked them to give it to me twice and they told me i needed to get my kids out of there. yes, they were considered unruly because they were not sitting still with their eyes glazed, and yes, i allow them to talk. they are kids, and we waited for 90 minutes. as soon as i got out the door i realized that i had also been charged double! i had no bargaining power since my kids did not comply with their stiff norm.

i've been writing alot lately......


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
one time at a potluck i was livid that a mother yelled repeatedly across my yard at reed to stop doing something he is allowed to do. looking back, i can laugh that he just found it odd and ignored her. (i get in big trouble all over for that, not instilling obedience and acquiescence to other adults) my point is that my influence is strong and primary. yes, they can pick up little habits and ideas and words here and there and experiment, but that is also part of experiencing more of the world.

Oooooh, that's a pet peeve of mine! BeanBean is still young and sensitive enough to burst into tears when someone tells him to stop doing something we've always let him do.







He just gets this hurt, upset look on his face like "What do you mean, I can't do x,y,z? Mamma said it was okay..."







It's really hard, because I let him do a lot of things (pretty much anything that isn't really really dangerous) which other people (most notably people who don't live with small children) think are awful for a not quite two year old. Now that he looks and acts like a very small two and a half year old it's not as bad, but when he was 14-15 months it was pretty awful. I'm sure it'll get worse again soon. *sigh*

Quote:

as soon as i got out the door i realized that i had also been charged double! i had no bargaining power since my kids did not comply with their stiff norm.
I would totally go back and b**** about that!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eilonwy*
The fact that BeanBean is still nursing definately helps as well, because it reminds me that while he's a big boy who walks and talks and listens and such, he's still a baby. Not quite two is not an adult by anyone's standards; nursing him reconnects me with him and reminds me that he's still my little boy.

It's so true. Because of the 2 newborns that are now in our mandala these days we've been making the distinctions between little babies and big babies. I tell ds he is my big baby, he loves to hear this, and my SIL and my friend have little babies. The little babies only get to have "beuf", this is so funny to ds, and ds gets to have "beuf" plus almond butter, egg, rice milk etc etc etc. Anyway I was referring to ds as my big baby when I was talking to my mom on the phone and she corrected me to him saying he's your big boy. Honestly he's only 21 mos, that is NOT a big boy. Definitely when he's nursing, he's my baby plain and simple


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

I just sent a LONGGGG reply, and then the Boards went down for a sec when i tried to send. UGH!!

well, i guess i'll try later.

love to you all!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i'm terrible at being assertive in public situations. so much that before the dmv i put on nice clothes and war paint, something i do only a few times a year, and practiced smiling the whole time.

i've been working on the operative that my kids can learn to be aware of the rules of the location they are in, and thus follow them. however i am reticent about enforcement. like my mom won't childproof. i have to let my mom and dad chase my kids around and get the dangerous or precious things away from them. generally i do not want to enforce anyone else's rules, whether it be my dh's or other homes. public is another thing. my boys are not savvy enough to notice how other people are behaving and i have to state it. but they'll get it eventually.....there's a converse to this rule, which means that if other people give out candy or inappropriate toys my kids will mess or break, i try my very best not to interfere. sometimes the results are surprising.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

We have a small curio cabinet with antique miniature tea sets in it. I don't lock it, and it's right it the kitchen. Every once in awhile DS will open it up and start rearranging the sets, he even broke a handle off a tea pot. But in general he knows not to go in there, because it's Mama's and not his. DH has tons of electronics in the entertainment center, and the kids just don't mess with them. They pretty much know where they can and can't go, and what they can and can't touch in this house. (Except for the sewing machine- they LOVE getting their hands on it when I'm not looking! I don't think they'll ever give that up...) I don't believe in moving everything up high, or covering the corners of my coffee table, or babyproofing in general. Of course we don't have wires hanging out of the wall, ready for the kids to electrocute themselves or anything like that. And we have all our meds and toxins locked in a cabinet- foster care rules- but that is actually very convenient because I don't have to worry if Zach gets under the sink or whatever. Whenever we go somewhere that isn't "child-proofed" (which is rare) I just sit back and let the host deal with it. I think it's pretty funny actually. And I'm one of those parents who doesn't care if an elder disciplines my child. All my parents' friends had the power to discipline us when we were younger, so I guess I'm just used to it. I think my kids should respect other adults as they would respect me.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

I like how eclectic this group is YK. Lots of diff. approaches but the basic premise of respecting the inherent humanity of the child is always woven in.

I like this smiley too...







:....:LOL

Tired, mamas. Up every hour to nurse, but still I'm not ready to give up on the nightnursing just yet.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

s Rose.....


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

more







for you Rose. I know how you feel


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

Just wanted to post that David Alexander arrived on 9/10 at 1:42pm. He was 8lbs. 4oz. and 20 inches long. He is back up to birthweight and quite the chow hound. Christopher has started nursing again with the arrival of his brother so I am now tandem nursing and loving it. Enjoy the pictures!

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/amaden...ByivBBWBjdV9Md


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

YOOOZZAAA! Georgia had her first full out temper tantrum this morning. The first three minutes were b/c I would not let her have my laptop. Once I put it away she just spiraled out of control. The only way to describe it is she was like the tazmanian devil. I tried holding her - she bit, hit and pulled my hair, I tried giving her a paci she threw it at me. I tried leaving her for a few mintes and she ran after me. Finally I just took her up to the bedroom where there is minimal stimulation and sat next to her and started reading books.

Anyone have any advice for how to handle these in the future? All I can say is thank god we weren't in a grocery store









Amy


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Heather- your pictures are wonderful!!! Thanks for sharing.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Heather, lovely pics. We've all been thinking about you. How are you doing, mama? And how is Christopher handling this new little being into his life, sharing him w/mama and papa?

Mona, Punk thanks for the







s. It was another wakeful night. I really SHOULD be napping with ds but this is my only time when I'm not accomodating another being and I stubbornly refuse to spend it asleep.

We're off on another trip next week for a couple of weeks. Won't have internet access either. But until then I'll be checking in unless I absolutely decide that







is more important.


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

Congratulations Heather!

We've had a rough couple of days, lots of crabbiness from both ds and me, lots of crying from ds. I am a bit hormonal with AF and thought maybe I was just overly sensitive, but ds is just not himself. Well, this afternoon I finally put it all together. We've adjusted his bedtime to 9-9:15 to facilitate going to sleep quickly (15 min vs. 45 min with an 8 o'clock bedtime) but, alas, he must be short on sleep. Maybe he really needs the earlier bedtime and the long unwinding while we nurse in the bed. Back to the drawing board. I really don't want to have to spend 45 min putting him to bed but would trade that for my charming ds' regular personality. He is such a sweetie most days. I am so glad it's Friday afternoon and dh just pulled in!

Have a great weekend everyone!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Yay heather! I hope your boys are being easy on you! Did you write a birth story?


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

"Congratulations" just doesn't cut it, Heather... Your babies are beautiful.

Tomorrow is DH's b-day, and we're having our annual party here. Lots of cooking and cleaning today, and tomorrow there'll be lots of eating, drinking, and chatting to enjoy.

Our air conditioner is on the fritz, but I am thankful that it's not 120 degrees outside. We have an evaporative cooler and ceiling fans, so we're hanging in there. It cools off at night, but during the day it gets pretty toasty. Supposed to be 99 tomorrow, so I'll just make sure everyone has a cold beer in their hand to stay cool.









Rose, Zach has been having some rough nights lately too. He is waking more, and sleeping more fitfully. He always goes through phases like this, and then goes back to normal, so we're just riding it out...

Have a good weekend, friends.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I don't remember if I posted this link or not, but now there's a picture of my bald head in there, so I thought I'd post it again.

Heather, congrats! I was really starting to wonder what had happened.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

yaay, david! yaay, heather! looking at your fotos reminded me again of how the older baby, in your case, christopher, suddenly looks big when the wee one comes. congratulations! isn't is lovely when you already know how to nurse?

i'm sorry it looks like everyone is feeling a bit bleah. i'm there myself. usually september is an energizing month for me and i have just given up on the entire month.

yaay, shaved head! rynna, i've been meaning to mail you personally that i haven't forgotten :i still have a box ready to send you and i think it has summer clothes. i don't even have a newborn to possibly excuse my lack of follow through.....i think if i just get it into the van then it can get to you. i have a package for my brother that is the same situation. problem is that i have to hide it from my curious kids.....which essentially hides it from me! maybe because i'm writing it here i will make momentum?

tantrums: staying cool is what helps me the most, amy. situations change, and you know your baby the best, who is changing as well. even when they feel like the world is not okay, it is comforting when they can see in your face that generally, it is a safe place. sometimes a little detective work can help prevent triggers, but i think it is most important as a mamma to not be afraid of outbursts. it also seems to me that acting up happens around non-growth spurts like emotionally or with talking and such (as well as sleep and eating changes). remember that it is challenging for them to have as much awareness as us adults but to be frustrated by their limited bodies when they can only sense gorgeous possibilities. they need validation and guidance and love and we can give that - and they will have to work out what it is like to live as themselves. emotional maturity takes time. hey, i'm still learning it.

as for it happenning in places like a store, it is going to bother you more than anyone else, (usually what is weirder is watching moms getting mad, and i try to lend sympathy so that they can calm down. it is always good to know you are not alone) and really other people just wish that they could let loose like that. in fact with my story about the dmv, my dh told me that when he went there after me that people were telling and getting escorted by security because the tension was so thick there. at least our babies are babies and have public license to get mad when they need. if your reactions are what scares you, then it is time to read a parenting book. my recs are the five love languages of children, and easy to love difficult to discipline.

i felt so bad for my son reed the other day. my sil gave the boys some swim googles which they absolutely love, and he broke the strap again and was crying that he could not tie it to work and got me out of bed because of it (i've mentioned they always gets up before me now, right? this is something i need to talk about later). i noticed that a piece was missing and asked where he was when he broke them. he really could not remember what room of the house he was in when it had just happenned, this terrible catastrophe. i was telling my friend with also a six and she agreed that her boy also would not have been able to remember and that we should just be glad we are female and are able to help the men.

i'm creeping around. my dh has to get up at 3am to start food going for luxury suites at the football game. usually he works around 9....

yesterday i woke to clay telling me that the bathroom was flooding as i was wondering, what is that noise? ruby had stuffed an entire roll of paper towels into the toilet and water was gushing out the bathroom door. thanks ruby!

i have to wake up and cook something for a taiwanese potluck lunch i'm habitually dreading even going. but my kids might have fun and my parents will feel reassured that i love them. this week my dad hung up the phone on me about that durned piece of paper, so i guess i'm going to forgive and make up with them with our appearance. usually i just don't talk to them for months and they pretend that nothing happenned so i guess this situation is an improvement. in so many ways i am still a two year old - including the good stuff too!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

oh, and jaza you had mentioned the iud. though i feel a myriad of issues concerning having mine, and am actually suprised that my body hasn't expelled it due to all my feelings (which relate to mammas biologically wanting more children.....), i am certainly glad i have it for my marriage. i don't like to bring it up much since i know many people are ttc and have such an unbelievably difficult time with that aspect, but being a fertile couple has been quite a burden for us, to the point that it frightened us out of a sex life for the past six years. i guess i'm just too durned healthy, no matter how much i nurse.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I am afraid of getting pregnant again. I talked to the doctor about the iud, and lactational ammerrea (sp?) and she told me that LA does not work. I'm tandem nursing, and I think I could probably get pregnant if I wasn't careful. The things that I worry about the IUD... getting imbedded in my uterus, not working (like I'm one of the 3%),the materials (plastic and copper inside my body), it getting in the way, and the cost. Also, it causes you to have really heavy periods, right? Do you get cramps too? I didn't get the thing yet, but am still thinking about it.

I'm going to go back to where I was before (hahaha) in a few days, where the babies dad lives. We are going to see how it works now. He has come to visit me here many times since I moved, and he has really changed his relationship with haeven. I guess that is to be expected as she gets older. He now will change *ALL* of her diapers, put her to sleep *every* night, give her baths, and plays with her!!! When he's around, all she needs me for is to have "meemees". So we might move in together again (hence the contraceptive discussion). I'm excited. I want it to work. Do any of you vetran married people have any hints for me?

Better run......


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

yes, the iud makes me bleed heavily and cramp. i also tend to be allergic to metal but i went into it believing, and still have to remind myself intellectually, that i can change my mind at anytime without regard to money.

veteran married person.....haha, all relationships take continuing work in various ways. especially in this world where we all have a myriad of ideas of what we expect. but when both are trying to make it work, it makes a big difference. for me much of marriage is about being able to be clear verbally about how we feel with self confidence, and to forgive easily. much of it is also knowing each other's physical habits, and this we have learned from the way our kids are wired. dads are important in this society, and i know marriages that quit where it requires as much or even more work with the dad regardless because of the children. so boldly go forth with faith, i say.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

I had mixed emotions regarding my IUD. I decided on the paragard, since I didn't want hormones. I had it put in last year at the end of Feb. and had it taken out in October. Not realizing that insurance didn't cover the IUD, it cost me over $500 to have it put in and over $200 to have it taken out. I never felt it and I guess it probably did its job (although I didn't get my PP period till this past March, anyway) but I just had constant anxieties about it--many of the ones you describe, Jasanna...I was always worried it would get embedded or worse, that it would fail, I'd get pg and then miscarry if I had it taken out. I suppose it was mostly all in my head, but I was much less anxious when I had it taken out.

ETA: I am not a naturally fertile person, so I'm sure that changes things regarding birth control and also, we are actively TTC, so that makes a difference as well.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I guess I'm a veteran married person.. maybe. :LOL

We've just decided that we're going to make things work out. We're both solidly committed to our relationship, so we try hard to work out difficulties and we talk to each other when we're upset. We listen to each other and we talk until we reach a compromise we can both live with. We take responsibility for our actions, and we apologize when we are in the wrong. Like any other couple, we have problems occasionally, but we work them out.







No big secret either; we just work them out.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i think one main consideration with the iud is that it is not recommended for women who definitely intend to have more children because of possible problems like infection? it is funky for me just starting with the concept of having any kind of fabricated foreign object in me.
but i need it for a little while longer....perhaps until we get our finances to a more harmonious state. the terror of getting pregnant was debilitating for my marriage. my dh's love language is physical touch, and in primal ways he needs the validation of sex to feel he truly exists. i only figured that out last year and i really didn't want to believe it when the arrows started to point that way. originally he was willing to get a vasectomy but to my relief (that i didn't have to convince him otherwise) he decided that since he should at least be thirty! perhaps what i'm really waiting for is for my dh to feel more at peace with the world. the question is what can i do? somehow i've chosen this situation. let me know when there is a process for temporary male sterilization. i'll need it for my boys too.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

My partner is willing to get a vasectomy. He is the one who brought it up, even! His friend got one because they have two kids 16 months apart, so going at that rate... anyways, apparently vasectomys are easily reversable now, because of micro-surgery. I really wonder, and I haven't done any research on the net about it yet. I saw "extreme makeover" last night and the guy on there was getting a vasectomy reversal and it was like "wooo" big deal. Hmmm. (ok, I admit I watch reality shows, i sure wish I didn't have cable)


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Casina, you always make me laugh - the whole temp steralization, need it for your boys.... :LOL that would be great









I guess I'm a veteran married person, married for four years, together for eight now (wow!) but I don't feel I have anythign to add because everyone else said it first! Mainly, we see ourselves as a team and we are very committed and very open communication wise. Good Luck Jaz.









I am loving life these days, I feel so at peace with everything. Nothing has really changed in my life, just my feelings about it all.

And this age! It's so wonderful. Dd's communication is unfolding and it's so much fun. She is really an active member of the family now, her personality is blooming, it is all so beautiful. Of course, with that all comes the tantrums, about a week of them now * sigh * but we are adjusting. I have been able to stay calm and non judgemental and I think that really helps. She did have one in the store the other day, she wanted something and I couldn't buy it for her which was difficult for her to understand of course. I just walked over to a less busy area and talked softly to her, I told her I understood that she was upset but that we needed to calm down or else we would have to go outside and wait for our friends (we were there with another mama and her kids) It worked amazingly enough! I think it helped that she was in the sling allready too, her little safety zone.

Gotta run mamas, dh is home







first Saturday night off in ages (well its allready 10 pm so not really a night off, but I'm excited that he's not working the overnight shift







)

P.S. Heather! Thanks so much for sharing your gorgous pictures







We look forward to hearing more from you when you get a chance







and Rynna! Thanks for the pic


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

punk, i'm so glad you sound so happy.

um, reversing vasectomies can be done but a lady i know (having her third at 42 next month, and her girls at 2 and 5, her and her dh were married over twenty years ago and swore they would not have children) tells me that they paid twenty thousand dollars.

i've been thinking i don't report much about ruby. i guess i find my boys more of a challenge to deal with, or that i'm seasoned enough that the problems she gives me i have already dealt with and i know it is just part of being the age. i do find that the third and fourth children i know are real charms, incase any of you are thinking that far. it's the adjustment to two that is the trial, though now the children outnumber us.

anyway, ruby still hardly talks. she has understood very clearly since she was born it seems. she understands situations better than the boys do now simply due to her female nature. so i just revel in her glory, despite her curious and and messy and commanding behaviour. yes, she tests me and i get irritated sometimes. but i guess i have the older ones to remind me that it is nothing in the big scheme. perhaps it is easier to be forgiving with her since she is the littlest. she just has so many skills that my boys don't have, and she can read me and is constantly busy finding new ways to play and help, and sometimes in the worst of her moods i can smile and help her out of it. it just makes me want oodles of girl children. but it may be just herself, the ruby that she is. but then, i find the three and four age harder in general so it will be interesting to see what happens. i think by five she will just be bossing all the males in the home and be an undisputed know it all. i just love her girlness. i love that she constantly draws on her body. i love that she has colored in the crotches of her favorite toys. i love that she hugs me from behind in a burst of love and yells mamma.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
let me know when there is a process for temporary male sterilization. i'll need it for my boys too.

The problem with the male pill isn't technology-- it's that men are notoriously unreliable. Women don't trust men to be responsible for the birth control unless they *know* that they had a vasectomy. They're working on a shot that would be something like depo provera only it'd be once a month for men, if I recall correctly. They talked all about it in this show, and then they surveyed guys on the street and asked "If you forgot to take your birth control pill, would you tell the truth or would you lie?" The only guys who said they'd tell the truth were the ones who already had kids and didn't want anymore-- and even those indicated that they might have a hard time saying no to sex. :LOL

I'd trust Mike to take it, even if he had to inject himself (they're working on a patch, too, I think that for some reason pills didn't work right) every single day, because he does that anyway and he'd be more than willing to take that burden, and because I know that he doesn't want to have kids right now either. Still, I've met loads of guys who I *know* would lie through their teeth about it. :LOL


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
um, reversing vasectomies can be done but a lady i know (having her third at 42 next month, and her girls at 2 and 5, her and her dh were married over twenty years ago and swore they would not have children) tells me that they paid twenty thousand dollars.

Not here in Canada. It's free.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

yeah Canada


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
i do find that the third and fourth children i know are real charms, incase any of you are thinking that far. it's the adjustment to two that is the trial, though now the children outnumber us. .

We want at least three, and probably more









Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*

but then, i find the three and four age harder in general so it will be interesting to see what happens. .

i have heard or read this some where and I really hope that this group is still together. I really depend on y'all! I have a feeling I'm gonna need you all to help me stay balanced and sane :LOL

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
i think by five she will just be bossing all the males in the home and be an undisputed know it all. i just love her girlness. i love that she constantly draws on her body. i love that she has colored in the crotches of her favorite toys. i love that she hugs me from behind in a burst of love and yells mamma.

























I love the hug from behind too, it makes me melt









Much love to all you mamas today, this group rocks!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

you're right, a pill would not work for many of the male gender. in my mind it would have to be something that happens to be reversed at a later time. too bad there are no natural rituals for this.....aah, the biological force we live with is powerful.

in fact thinking about jaza the other day i thought of something a friend of mine did. she typed up her agreement with her husband concerning her staying home with the babies and had him sign it. she has actually had to bring it out and show it to him to remind him that he agreed to the situation. a think a few or more years ago i would have found this contrived but sometimes i wish i had some documents to show my dh when he forgets. maybe it would be good for me too!

peiodically we get a brochure selling parcels of canadian land that my dh fantasizes about.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Well, we have some big news in our house...Owen slept in a "big boy" bed last night! He did well...he's still sleeping right now and he only woke up once, at 1am. I nursed him, held him, then put him back in and he cried for a few seconds and went back to sleep. He looks like a peaceful little angel sleeping in there.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Egads, lots to say, let's see how much time I have to say it!!!

First, casina- what you said about missing dreams really resonates w/ me. I have tons of short dreams all night long, and have a really hard time remembering pieces or anything in their totality. I really believe dreams are a valuable tool, so it is frustrating that I can not use them right now.

Birth control-it took me 4/5 years to conceive dd, so I'm thinking I am not fertile. :LOL BUT, the last thing I want right now is to become preggers. So I am rethinking my options. I alternate bw condoms and the diaphragm. Condoms- not always reliable and a pain. Diaphragm- a bitch for me to get out bc I have short stubby fingers. So it is a toss up for me. My cycle is pretty regular, so technically I could do the rhytym method, but that freaks me out sometimes. Maybe I need to do more reading on it.

The potty learning is going great here-- dd poops and pees in the potty when she is naked. No problem there. Now we need to go to the next step, and I'm not sure how to do it. I put a pair of jeans on her yesterday and kept reminding her that she didn't have a diaper on, so she would need to take down her pants to pee. And I'd ask her if she had to pee every once and awhile. Well, I left the room, and she peed on the bed while dh was with her. he had been reminding her too, but I think that she is just used to peeing in her pants, so that will take some getting used to. My mom just bought her some training pants, so I guess we'll try those today. I'm kind of put off by the concept of them, bc we don't wear underwear around here. So it's kind of weird. I guess we'll just see how it goes.

Not much talking in English around here still. Lots of other kind of talking tho.








The words are coming tho, and it's exciting to see the process unfold.

Casina- I love to read how you write about the dif bw your dd and boys. Since I only have a dd, I don't have anything to compare it to. My friend swears that boys are much easier to raise, so I'd like to hear what you think about that.

One more thing then I have to run. I 've been using the diva cup for my moon lately, and absolutely love it. No more tampons to throw away!!! I'd highly recommend it!!









lisa


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

I am tired and grumpy.

The nightnursing has intensified. I feel like I'm constantly saying







to ds and this past week I find I've been going on automatic. YK just filling time till nap.









:yawning: I should be napping with ds now.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Lisa...I LOVE my diva cup as well! Highly recommend it. I do like to let people know that there is a learning curve to stumble over at first, but after that, it's super!


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Rose


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

thanks brayg tho I feel kind of sheepish complaining.

Ds has been asleep for almost 2.5 hrs!! I'm now wondering if he's getting enough sleep at night due to the constant nightnursing.

I'm all over the map today. I could have slept for 2 hrs!!! In theory anyway.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

2 Rose. BeanBean has also begun nightnursing again, often and hard. In our case, I'm pretty sure that he just wants to know that he's still my baby; BooBah nurses at night, so he wants to do the same thing. He loves his sister and loves watching her nurse, but at night he just wants to make sure that I know he's still my little boy, hardly more than a baby himself. I suppose I should count myself lucky that he only wants to nurse 2 or 3 times a night!









BeanBean is gaining words again at an amazing clip. He wants to do schoolwork with his cousin, and I'm very close to breaking down and finding him some preschool workbooks so that he can do something while she's doing schoolwork. He's just so pleased with everything and he really wants to participate, and I really can't find any more arguments against an activity that will keep him stationery for a while.

My BooBah is growing growing! I love it. I could do without the constant puke (I think she's got GERD







) but other than that, having her around is fabulous.

I'm not getting enough sleep. I don't think it's the nightnursing, though; I think it's because I'm not eating enough and I'm depressed, and that makes me tired all the time.







I really need to get my behind in gear. Of course, if I had the energy to do that, I wouldn't be so tired and I'd probably be less depressed.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

eilonwy-
i'm sorry that you've been depressed lately.... does this have to do w/ birthing hormones or ppd? or is it an ongoing cycle that you face? in either case, i'm sorry.







s
as for your eating enough- do you take a multi vitamin at least? i know that eating is sometimes hard, esp when taking care of the rest of the family. but for me it is so crucial. i've been taking a mulit vit to make sure i'm getting everything i need, no matter what i eat. but , to be honest, these days i eat plenty. :LOL i still find myself absolutely starving 1 or 2 x a day- esp when i'm doing a lot of night nursing. it is like exercising all night long.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

funny you mention vitamins. yesterday it occurred to me that i hadn't been taking any....too tired to remember? i'm taking rainbow light prenatals. so i took some and had energy rest of the evening.

i've been wanting a moon cup - silicone, not latex. i'm allergic to latex. so is my dh. spermicide irritates both of us as well. after i had reed i took the pill for two days and damen told me he never wanted me to take them again because they made me so crazy.
i wish i had a moon cup right now.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

casina said:


> funny you mention vitamins. yesterday it occurred to me that i hadn't been taking any....too tired to remember? i'm taking rainbow light prenatals. so i took some and had energy rest of the evening.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> most prenatals or mulit have so much b vits that i can only take them in the morning. b's are kinda like mild stimulants, so keep me from sleeping sometimes.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

i love my diva cup







and it is made with silicone, casina.

i took the pill for two months after dd and it made me.... well psychotic comes to mind. It was really awful. I have tried to block that time out of my mind. i considered the IUD for awhile, but the thought of something foreign inside of my body really freaked me out. So we settled on NFP and I did that for four cycles, but now we are ttc









Eilonwy







I'm sorry you are going through a hard time







and Rose, a







for you too mama.

I have a secret : about a week ago we dragged the mattress from dd's never used crib into our room and put it next to our bed. dd played on it for a few days and sometimes had me nurse her in it and now all of the sudden it is her bed and she loves it. Night before last she slept eight hours straight in it!! Last night she got up twice. We are all sleeping so much better, because we all have room to spread out. She sleeps right next to me (our bed is on the floor too) so when she wakes she just climbs on into the big bed, I nurse her and then put her back down in her bed. So far so good. I am amazed. I really thought that we would all sleep together at least a few more years, but this seems to be working out great so


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Punk blessings on ttc









Am I the only one who still hasn't had a pp moon? Apart from our moms of new ones, of course.

Eilonwy, meant to tell you before, love the new do







That pic of you and Eli is strong, mama.

Mukti took a 3 hr. nap yesterday and then had a restive night. I'm seriously thinking of nightweaning after we return from our trip. The drawbacks now seem to be outweighing the plusses but I know it's such a mutable, fluid thing that in 2 weeks everything will have shifted again and I probably will have a different take on it. I wish we could put our mattress on the floor but we have serious mold issues here so it's not an option. Glad you're getting some







punk


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

Not much time here ds is "doing pooter" with me and I am deleting as I go!

He slept 8 hours last night too! Just 2 weeks ago I was struggling with 10-12 wakes a night for 2 or 3 nights in a row and constant nursing. It is so fluid, you are right solticemama.

I'm feeling under the weather today adn am worried I'll be sick. If only there were sick days for SAHMs! I dread the idea of being sick and home with ds alone. Dh cannot be gone from work right now so we'll just have to get through it. I'll have to go get some echinasea, I think I'm out.

No birth control pills here either. I was on them about 3 years before we ever ttc and for a few months after ds. I feel ok on them, but don't like the idea of them much and have a hard time remembering. We just avoid intercourse except at REALLY safe times now. I am looking forward to permanent sterilization after another baby!

Uh, oh. Ds is eating popcorn off the floor!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bethkm*
Uh, oh. Ds is eating popcorn off the floor!









: :LOL







: Come on... I can't be the only one here who encourages my kid to eat off the floor... can I?







:LOL It really doesn't bother us. Mike and I were talking about the "rules" we had as kids about when something was safe to eat off the floor. The "five second" rule, the "kiss it to heaven" rule, the "say a quick chant" rule. :LOL







:

The depression I'm currently dealing with is situational, and has for the moment abated. I was spending a lot of time and energy worrying about my BooBah.







I still worry, but for now we've had some good news and I don't need to worry. Still, I feel like there's a storm coming, or more precisely that we have just entered the eye of the storm..

I've got hurricanes on the brain. Many people don't realize this, but when hurricanes are headed for Florida or Lousiana or even Mexico, they eventually make landfall and head north. Even when the storms miss the big cities down south, they head up to my area of the world and keep pouring. My county was declared a disaster area after Ivan, as was an adjacent county; now we're having heavy rains & more flooding from Jeanne.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

I hope Jeanne doesn't give you and your family too much grief, Rynna.

Congratulations on trying for another baby, punkprincessmama. I know Rachel has been TTC for awhile now, and I hope her day will come soon.








We will start in 2005.

Solsticemama, I've been menstruating for a year and a month since Zachary was born!!







It must be wonderful for you to be "free"...

I want to try a Diva Cup, or something like it. I'm getting tired of flannel mama cloth. It's very soft, and I sometimes forget I am wearing anything, but still... It'd be nice to have something, um, cleaner. (Sorry if TMI)

DH's party on Saturday went well, it was nice to have all my friends and family in one place to chat with! The cops were called because DH and his dumb friends were shooting off a gun into a dirt mound!!!







: I was laying down nursing Zach to sleep while this was going on, but had I known I would have FREAKED out! There were a TON of kids here, and drunk adults, and it was just not a good idea to have a gun out. I heard the loud bangs, but I thought they were shooting off fireworks...







I'm getting angry all over again just thinking about it. Anyway, the rest of the party was fun and I'm sad it was over. My social life is non-existent these days (outside of the home of course), and I miss the late nights laughing and talking with friends...

Good luck with your relationship, Jasanna. I really hope it works out for you. It will be great for the girls, and you of course!


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

Rynna- the popcorn was from yesterday! The funny thing is, I almost included that in my post saying, "but I know it's just from yesterday so I'm not stopping him!" I guess if it's in my own house and I know how long it's been there I can tolerate him eating things off the floor. They're gonna do it anyway if you ask me!

Sounds like a wild, fun party Leah. My dh is 30 next summer and I'll be having a big bash for him too.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

hey all! gosh it seems like forever since i posted on here..i have been busy busy..and elwynn too







we have a friend here and he is helping us get all of the painting done..tomorow will be the last day. i hope!! we have also been going on lots of walks and hikes and bike rides(picnic included). and it is SO nice to have someone here with us. it is so hard just cooking for elwynn and i. i end up making not very nutricious meals because a) its a lot of work
and B) its not as nice to eat it all alone and elwynn usually spits most of it out and throws it on the floor and goes looking in the fridge for something else. usually pickels and olives. what a weirdo. and he does dishes! wow. hehe. anyways. ive been keeping up reading posts whenever i can get to the computer. elwynn isnt naping much these days. he is talking a lot. he has a book of animals ..i think with about 20 animals in it and he can say everyone clearly except elepahnt which he says "epitant" his favorite are giraffe "gerrafe" and walrus which he's been saying for months now but it still makes me giggle. he is learning his ABC's and 123's. is maybe getting into that teriible two's . he likes to say "NO WAY!" at just about everything. sometimes i get frustrated but mostly i think its cute, because usually he has a big grin on his face while he says it. i cant believe they are all so close to 2...its sad in a way..but wonderful too! and everyday i know this little being i love him more and more. i never knew i could love anyone as much as i love him thats for sure.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

oh and one of elwynn's favorite things is stashing raisins and crackers and stuff around the house for "later" i dont mind. i know that my house is clean


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

rose, what i need the most is not the total amount of sleep but a longer span of it, 3-5 hours depending. which is why i am sleeping in mornings. otherwise i should give up evenings because their longest period of sleep is right when they go to bed. there were times i would take a nap when my dh got home (or lately, involuntarily pass out). the nap is easier for me to find if dh takes them for an outing just so i can get settled, and having an agreement that he will put the baby next to me to nurse as soon as he sees signs. the only "help" i could really handle was going to a friend's home or my mom or mil, and laying down there as they played. if there's even a possibility that this seems like a good idea to you and you have an opportunity, then you should take it. i don't ever recall you using the word grumpy before.

i am notorious for my original sleep habits. anyone who knows me well has teased me about how sleep forever, supposedly i really need ten hours, and i am terrible at waking and extremely slow to warm up. so sleep has been a very dear issue to me as a mamma. i know when really deprived i was jealous whenever i saw dh sleeping and would fantasize about sleeping most of the time awake. of course this did not help me but clarify the issue that i needed it and wasn't getting it.

there are two general things i've changed about sleep. one is what people call surrendering. but no, i cannot call it giving up my person to have a child dictate my sleep, though it can seem that way. really it is making the choice that continuing what i'm doing is okay. deciding that today, i will continue to nurse my child and cosleep and whatever happens happens.
the other thing that has changed is my sensitivity and my physical parameters. there are external things i've changed, like having a fan for white noise. sometimes i've put a pillow between me and the baby, or put the baby on the other side of dh. then there's the whole extra bed thing. i've tried it many times. i feel better going the opposite direction - making it so that closeness is easier. like sleeping with my shirt off. giving up pillows and positioning. having a beer every now and then and being foggier. with this i have to trust that my baby will be fine with whatever happens, and that a possible whimper not instantly heeded is not damaging to either of us. feeling okay with my leg laying on ruby's. being too tired to care that my arm has a cramp or is tingling from being under clay's head. i noticed that the other night i'm okay with both latched and me marginally moving and kicking my legs to pull their blankets from under them and holding a book. it's definitely taken time and willingness and need to change.

but i've needed to learn to feel comfortable about this type of physicality. i know it started when i met a working lady at le leche that told me her husband would put the pumps on her in the mornings before she got up and it did not wake her. i know i also had to get to where i feel comfortable that my child can come find me. another lady told me her boys could nurse her no matter what, even if she was laying on her belly and her nipple barely poked out the side and she would basically sleep through it. so i've learned there are possibilities with sleeping and of course i have limits but i have definitely pushed them in this instance where we are cosleeping better which i feel fanatical about. but i don't know how to describe how to fall asleep faster after latching, or how to be so asleep that some moving around does not wake me. i think these things happenned because i was too tired or sick or other happenings of a more absolute factor. now my kids can be awake and i'm not. it happenned because i got sick. but they are okay and have each other, but i could have never taught them this or convinced myself to aim for it. so what am i trying to say? i guess for me, at some point i do get so exhausted that i do actually get some sleep. and i know that for myself, that if i am complaining, then, i have the energy to complain and it could be worse (or blissfully confusing). we have tried separate beds enough times that i know i prefer the actual sleep interruption, and my dh is finally okay with it as well. my kids have tended to be out of sync when they slept separately even in the same room. and i would still lose sleep because i was more worried about them. perhaps it is because i do not fawn over them during the day or cannot give as much physical love awake as they need. anyway, this is my experience. try what you feel and see what feels right.

i know to feel okay about how things are, whatever they are, is to remind myself that i make and have the freedom of choices for the now. and a choice to change nothing and see what happens later is still a choice. for me to feel peaceful in general, it is about trying and doing. the thinking and planning can agonize me. sooooo, do be do, be do be do.....


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I tend to put myself in a sleep-deprived state. When haeven goes to sleep at night, I slowly creep out of the room and stay up for usually about 3 hours! Like last night, she went to sleep at 9 and I stayed up till 12. I'm a night owl and last night was a full moon to boot. I don't do much during that time but watch t.v. I really hate this habit that I have formed. I used to be totally anti-t.v. Now I watch several hours a day. It's just so mindless. I can sit there and be entertained. I can forget that I have kids, forget that the kitchen is messy. Just veg. Well, I won't be able to do that once I move back in with the baby's dad. He lives in the country, and would never pay for cable. The only reason we have cable here is because my brother figured out how to get it for free.







But, when I don't have access to cable, we usually rent movies like mad.

Haeven says I love you now. Has been saying it for a couple of weeks. She says it like "I-you", and kisses the air. I admit that she got that from me, because I always do/say it like that.She's such a character. She also has been saying "thank-you" since about when samaya was born. She says it all the time, especially when she gives me something, or whatever. It's so funny. I've never forced her to say thank-you, but she has learned it from experience.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Thanks Leah--I hope it happens soon too! I have PCOS, so my cycle is usually way off, but I've recently gotten my cycle back on track (controlling my insulin and stuff--I've lost 30 lbs in less than 3 months too







) and should be getting my period any day now. 3rd month in a row!









Owen's doing so well with his bed--I'm so impressed. He's been waking once a night to nurse and then goes back to bed really well. Wow! He just loves it too. I don't look at him the same now--for some reason he just seems like he's a really "big" kid. He talks up a storm, understands everything you tell him (although he doesn't always listen!







) and is just growing up before my eyes. *sigh* bittersweet stuff going on here.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

http://groups.msn.com/woolpants/shoebox.msnw?Page=1
the last three pix are from this past weekend...

my p's came to visit, and brought this new slide thing and a baby stroller they got at a garage sale. dd loves to push her babies around in teh stroller, and take them down the slide


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Sweet pics, Mona. Ds also has a little baby stroller that he pushes his bear, doll and monkey around in. This morning we took a stroll with mama pulling his little wooden ducky and Mukti pushing an empty glass bottle in his stroller :LOL He also has a sling but the stroller seems to get more use









Thanks for taking the time to organize your thoughts Casina. Last night was marginally better so I'm feeling a little more spacious today. Still, I've decided I've got to make a few changes. I don't know what they will be, nightweaning or having dh take more time with ds, or hooking up with a mom's group.







I dunno but I feel the need to shift things slightly.

We're off for a couple of weeks and I won't have internet access so for now mamas







. Have a great couple weeks. I'll be thinking 'bout y'all.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

We'll miss ya, Rose!


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

I am getting more sleep with David than I did with Christopher. Christopher slept in the Arm's Reach Co-sleeper. David is co-sleeping with us in our bed. It makes nursing much easier. On a good night he will sleep for 4 hour intervals and on a bad night he wakes up every 2 hours. He also doesn't have his days and nights mixed up like Christopher did.

Someone asked about a birth story. It is rather short but sweet. The doctor had me induced at 41 weeks and 1 day. I was worried about the use of pitocin but they didn't use any. They induced me at 8:30am with prostaglandin gel. That got my contractions going strong. According to my nurse, I was contracting every 15 minutes before they induced me. I probally would of gone into labor that day. The first three contractions after they put the gel in were tough on David. He had decelerations every time I contracted. They were talking about putting me on some kind of drug to stop the contractions but they noticed that after the first three contractions he was fine. No more decelerations. Once that cleared up, I was free to walk the halls. I had to come back every 15 minutes to be monitored and then I could walk again. I walked the halls for a total of 2 hours. Then I decided to get into the jacuzzi tub. That was wonderful but the nurse would only let me stay in there for a half hour. After that I ended up in the rocking chair. They decided to check me and found that I had progressed to 4 cm so they broke my waters. That's when labor really cranked up. By then I was back in bed on the monitors again. With my husband's continued support I kept on breathing through my contractions. After a while they checked me again and found I was at 6 cm. By then I was getting to the point where the pain was beginning to be a bit much so I asked for some Nubain. The Nubain relaxed me to the point that I progressed from 6 cm to 8 cm in 45 minutes. I found out I was 8 cm because they checked me because I was asking for an epidural. I was at the point where I was losing concentration while trying to breathe through the contractions. The doctor mentioned that I was 8 cm and wanted to know if I really wanted an epidural. She could tell I wanted some relief so she talked to the anesthesiologist and he did what he called a "One Shot Wonder". I think it was a walking epidural since there was no need for a catheter. He just injected the drugs into the epidural sac and didn't insert the catheter. While this was going on, I had a huge contraction in which I became complete. Now that I look back on this maybe I should of just sat up and I would of been fine without the "One Shot Wonder". Anyways they got me back onto my back and were talking when I mentioned that my body was pushing but I wasn't. That's when they discovered I was complete. The set everything up and I pushed David out in a total of 9 pushes. I think it took 20 minutes to push him out. Once they head was out they told me not to push since they had to suction him because there was meconium in the water. The doctor caught him, briefly set him on my belly, and then passed him onto the nurses and neonatologist. His apgars were 9 and 9. He was perfect!

Here are some more pictures of him in the truck that he gave to Christopher at the hospital.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/amaden...8Mc0BB15uhRWjJ


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## Mom_on_the_move (Sep 30, 2004)

Hi!

I'm new to the Mothering site, but have really enjoyed what I have seen so far. I have had difficulty finding others who share my parenting strategies and goals. I have 2 DDs (21 mo. and 7 mo.). I am hoping to join you guys and share experiences. My DH is very active, assertive, and talkative. She and her sister are the lights of my life!

Looking forward to meeting you all!


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Oh my gosh, Heather, David is so cuuuuute! I bet you're in ecstasy!!! I want another one...
















This sure is a small world- I just found out that Saritasmile (she's posted here a few times) is the girlfriend of my brother's childhood friend. And she lives only about 200 miles north of me! Too weird!

Oh, and Zachary says "I love you" sometimes when he feels like it. He says "Wubb-ooh". :LOL

I hope you're all doing well mamas


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i have the flu and bacterial goo. waiting for full force mindwipe and body shift towards health. meanwhile icky but kids and dh happy.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

sorry you are sick casina, but glad that the rest of the family is good.
i seem to battling subtle case of depression, brought on by undealt w/ issues of anger and resentment. lots of internal battles to deal w/, but little energy to tackle them it seems. but must push through!!!!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

casina







2

i'm losing my mind. beanbean wants to spend all day in bed nursing. i can't do that! i just can't. i've got a case of thrush i'm never going to shake and nursing is very painful for me a lot of the time. i have to nurse boobah and i just can't let beanbean spend all day on the breast because all my pain tolerance will be worn down to a nub. right now, i'm typing around both children. beanbean just got done throwing a fit because i wouldn't nurse him for the *fourth* time this morning, and he woke his sister up. she's miserably unhappy because every time she eats she throws up; the vomiting hurts her and then her belly is empty to boot. of course, waking up to your brother's blood curdling screams can't help either.

beanbean seems to think that the only reason i'm not nursing him is that his sister isin the sling-- that's not true. it hurts soooo much to nurse right now! i really don't want to wean him, but i can't nurse him 24/7 i just can't handle the pain.









it's ten thirty in the morning and i'm ready to go to bed for the night already.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

I hope you feel better very soon, casina. I can only imagine how your kids and dh fair when the Superwoman of the house is under the weather.







If it's anything like my house, nothing gets done and everyone is miserable.

Rynna, I've never had thrush but I'm sure it's yucky. I hope you can get some relief soon. I don't have any advice on how to get rid of it, but lots of other crafty herbal mamas on MDC have great remedies, I'm sure. I had a clogged duct when Zach was about 5 months old- it was awful. Nothing as painful as thrush, but still a big PITA. I remember sitting at work with a sock full of warm rice under my armpit all day. :LOL

Hey, Zachary loves the PBS show "Boobah" BTW. He says "Beebah" first thing every morning. Sometimes I think he gets up early just to watch it, and I have no idea why because the show is so freakin' WEIRD. Has anyone ever seen it? I swear the creators were on acid when they came up with the concept. If I saw it tripping I'd probably either freak the *&^# out or burst out in uncontrollable laughter... I have no idea why he likes it, but it's one of his new favorites. That and Thomas the Train. All we hear all day lately is "Shain! Shain!"


















(Ever notice how quiet our borard gets when solsticmama goes on vacation??? :LOL)


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

to casina and eilonwy i hope you both are feeling better soon. I have so much to say! I haven't been able to get on to this board lately, the pages open soooo slowly it's just not worth it







and of course, just now it worked perfectly and dd comes up to me asking to take a bath!!!

so much love to all you mamas, and hopefully ill be back later


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*
Hey, Zachary loves the PBS show "Boobah" BTW. He says "Beebah" first thing every morning. Sometimes I think he gets up early just to watch it, and I have no idea why because the show is so freakin' WEIRD. Has anyone ever seen it? I swear the creators were on acid when they came up with the concept. If I saw it tripping I'd probably either freak the *&^# out or burst out in uncontrollable laughter... I have no idea why he likes it, but it's one of his new favorites.

That show is completely bizarre. I don't think the creators were on acid, I think they were on shrooms. See, they used to stick to pot and that's how we got "Teletubbies" but somewhere along the line they got bored with it and started playing with shrooms and now we have Boohbah. :LOL At least, that's my theory. That whole show looks like the D-12 video Purple 'Hills'.









At any rate, my younger niece loves the show too.







I have no idea why.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eilonwy*
That show is completely bizarre. I don't think the creators were on acid, I think they were on shrooms. See, they used to stick to pot and that's how we got "Teletubbies" but somewhere along the line they got bored with it and started playing with shrooms and now we have Boohbah. :LOL At least, that's my theory.









:







:LOL

So true, Rynna! The creators must have been on some form of psychadelic mind warping drug to come up with the concept of Boobah... We always thought Teletubbies were weird, but over the years they got cuter and cuter. I mean, Crystal is 8 and she's been watching "Tubbies" for years... Then when Zachary started watching Boobah DH was like "OK, Teletubbies are weird enough, I just don't even _understand_ Boobah." I said "Well, if Zach likes them, who cares?" But they are very bizarre. I mean, I watched Sesame Street, 3-2-1 Contact, The Electric Company and Mr. Rogers when I was little and they were just educational and entertaining, not at all "bizarre". I don't see any point in Boobah, other than it's weird and I guess it gets the kids thinking creatively. I don't mind it at all, I just don't _get_ it, YK? I mean, their names are crazy too- Zing Zing Zingbah??? Too funny!!!

For those of you who let their kids watch TV, what shows do your kids like? Again, Zach's fave right now is Thomas the Tank Engine ("Shain" for train), Jay Jay the Jet Plane, Teletubbies, Barney- pretty much anything on PBS. They don't watch the whole episode, but if a show happens to be on they might glance at it for a few minutes, especially during songs. They still really love The Wiggles, but ever since Dinsey took The Book of Pooh and Bear in the Big Blue House off the morning line-up, we don't really watch it too much. Mostly they watch PBS in the early morning while I'm getting Crystal ready for school, and again in the late evening while we wind down after dinner, just before bedtime.

I hurt my wrist while I was rollerblading today







... I fell... I even have some wrist guards, and I wasn't wearing them. I have definitely learned my lesson! I LOVE rollerblading, I just hate falling!

I got rid of my last puppy today... I cried. I didn't cry with any of the rest of them, I guess I was just more attached to this one since he's been here for so long. I loved him. He went to a really great old couple, so I hope he has a good life... They wanted to buy his mother, my BABY before I even had babies, and I said no way! I think I've convinced DH to have another baby soon, so it'll take my mind off the "grand dog" I just had to let go, :LOL


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

to all the mamas who need them

Leah...we are very into Blues Clues all of a sudden. Owen walks around "playing" it...I'll here "a clue" and he'll pretend to write it down. It's very cute!









Rynna...been following your thread over in politics...it's very interesting. Thanks for starting it--I've learned a lot just lurking over there.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

shit. rynna, i would come and keep you company, if i had a teleportation device and a molecular infection barrier.

eli is probably trying to nurse so much because his mouth itches. maybe ask for some nystatin pills for your systemic yeast and some cream for your breast. i can hardly get my kids to take liquid medicine but of course they prescribe it for them as well. other thing that has worked for me is colloidal silver spray on my breast. but then i've used gentian violet as well with some relief. and of course watching mamma's diet, which i know is just not even funny to talk about. i'm eating the worst stuff these days since i'm down.

boohbah i like. it is geared for tiny ones. the less brainwashing the better. am i supposed to reveal my psychedelic experiences here? i've had many and plenty and enough. ruby is stuck on scooby doo 2 (like it sickeningly has to be on or life is not right) and yells, "monsters!!" in her tiny voice.


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

My husband thinks that Boobah looks like "dancing turds". Someone was definitely on Acid when they created the show.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

GA watches Sesame Street, and Zaboomafoo but she LOVES Raffie Videos. when my mom is visiting she watches tubbies but Not with me I can't stand them


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Haeven *POOPED* in the potty yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!
























































:







:









































































































:







:



















































It really feels like she hit a milestone by doing it. She's really growing up now! She did her business without any prompting from me, except pointing out "joshua" in once upon a potty, and how great it is that he uses the potty to go poo, not a diaper.

This might be TMI for some, but I'm just so excited! She was just running around yesterday with no diaper and I was busy with something else, and she comes to me and says "poop".... and points to her potty, where there is definately some poop inside.

Could this be the end of diapers! I sure hoope so. Those poops are getting pretty nasty.

Yay Haeven!


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

yeah Haeven!! That's awesome mamajaza









casina and rynna, I hope you mamas are feeling better.









we don't watch much tv here, but Mariah really likes Mr. Rogers Neighborhood, which I think is too cool, because it was one of my faves as a kid







We've seen the boobah thing like twice, and she liked it, but mostly we sleep in too late to see it :LOL There is a local show called Cat Paws (can you tell we mostly watch PBS) that she loves and when we are home and I remember I let her watch it. It is mostly singing and dancing and they use a lot of sign language and Spanish so I feel good about letting her watch it.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

YYYYAAAAYYYY Haeven!!! She deserves a potty party!









Zachary is still about 50/50- he might tell us he has to go before it happens, sometimes we'll catch him before it happens when we see him squatting in the corner concentrating, or we may miss it altogether. Someday he'll get excited about using the potty, I'm just counting the days!

Punk- I watched Mr. Rogers when I was little too! I like him, even though he gets a bad rep for being weird. We watch it now and it reminds me of growing up... Simpler times, YK?

Gonna go look online for baby backpacks, like for mamas to wear when they're hiking. I have no idea what they're really called, but they usually have a frame. My Dad wore me in one when I was little. He even skiied with the ski patrol with me on his back!







:LOL

Anyone have one they like, or know of one that's a good deal?


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Leah, I have a Tough Traveler and LOVED it. We don't use it anymore because Owen just doesn't want to be confined in any way, but it was SO comfortable for both of us. I never got tired with him on my back. www.toughtraveler.com I got mine off ebay and have been contemplating selling it. If you do some research and decide to get a tough traveler, LMK...maybe we can work out a deal.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Thanks for the link, Rach!

Do you have the Stallion, the Filly, or do you remember? There are a ton to choose from on that site! The only thing I'm concerned about is that the Stallion is for people 5'5" and up in height and I'm only 5'3"...


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Well...more big news in our house. We are weaning. It's child-led, but I've changed what I've been doing. We've always been in a nurse-in-the-morning and nurse-before-bed kind of routine. I would just go over to the chair and he'd come up and we'd nurse. I wondered yesterday if he'd even notice if I didn't offer. He didn't ask until 5pm yesterday (and hooboy, was I full and sore!). I didn't ask him before bed and he went to bed without nursing (sniff, sniff...first time in almost 2 years that he didn't have nummies before bed). He didn't ask to nurse today until 8:00 tonight. Wow, huh? I've been feeling like I need to wean, so this is perfect. I'll let him lead, but I will probably do some gentle guiding as well (like offering an alternative or even realizing when he's just bored and keeping him busy instead).


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

Yay Haeven!!!! Rachel it sounds like you have a good plan there. Christopher self-weaned at 16 months and started nursing again at 22 months. I plan on letting him self-wean again when he is ready. He is funny. He points at my breasts and says "baby milk". I love the phrases that kids come up with.

Christopher loves watching Blue's Clues, Bob The Builder, Zaboomafoo, and Baby Einstein. He also loves watching the NASCAR races with us.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

saying hey.


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## alibuff (Jul 21, 2004)

Hey everyone









I've been MIA, had PC problems for a little while there... anyways...

We bought a little potty for Ursula and if she's naked, she'll poop and pee in it. If she has panties on, she can't take them off fast enough and she pees in them. If she has a diaper on, she'll take it off and go potty too. She hasn't peed overnight in months... she's been having bladder control for a while now. So, it looks like she might be potty-trained by the time she's 2... that would be nice







But, if not, that's cool too. I bring the potty in the living room too. That way its a reminder for her. But, its so cute seeing her get on it by herself and pooping or peeing







Love that!

Oh, her newest thing is to shrug her shoulders... LOL Favorite word is "NO!" and loves telling others to 'move!'... ha ha ha

Not anywhere near weaning... some nights, it seems she nurses all night... she also brings various toys to my breasts to nurse them, makes a smacking noise as well... from babies to trucks... lol

She's cutting her 2nd set of molars... her 5th and 6th molars are halfway through her gums at the bottom... 16 teeth are fully up right now already.

She's not really into TV... Sesame Streat holds her attention for a little while and Teletubbies a little bit.

Here's a link to a fairly recent photo of her: http://ursula.esmartkid.com/urs92404.jpg


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brayg*
Rynna...been following your thread over in politics...it's very interesting. Thanks for starting it--I've learned a lot just lurking over there.









Thanks!







I had no idea anyone was paying attention... it seems kind of slow and jerky to me, because people stop posting whenever I remind them that the point of the thread is not to be nasty.









Yay Haeven! BeanBean has had a few problems with that lately, but it doesn't seem to be his fault; for example, he had diarrhea not too long ago and there was a trail of poop all the way to the potty...







I've discovered that if he's wearing a diaper, he'll tell us before he needs to go because wearing a wet diaper is uncomfortable, but if he's wearing underpants, apparently it doesn't bother him if they're wet. He also needs to be wearing clothing that doesn't snap at the crotch, but that's really difficult because he's so skinny that pants fall right off of him for the most part. I bought an adorable pair of slacks at Gap last year on clearance thinking he'd be able to wear them this year, but even *with* a diaper (and he's not wearing one 90% of the time) they fall right off of him.







He's got a belt, but it doesn't fit in the loops of this pair of pants, which, ironically enough, appear to be only for decoration.









Rachel-- I don't think that would work for BeanBean; he'll come find me regardless of where I am, and I don't think I've offered him morning nursies... well, not since the night that BooBah didn't nurse (she slept through because she wasn't feeling well







). That's an interesting idea that he wants to nurse because his mouth itches... I never thoguht of that. I'll have to take him in. The thing is, as long as BooBah is on the antibiotics, fighting the thrush is something of a lost cause. I've always been fungus-prone.









I got some of BooBah's medical records yesterday, because she needs them for her appointment with the pediatric nephrologists at the closest children's hospital. (They specifically asked me to bring hard copies so that they can be assured that the records and the baby will be there at the same time). I read over them; apparently her (ureteral) reflux is so severe that it's likely to require surgery to correct. Mike and I are amazingly relaxed about that idea. We both feel that if that's all she needs, we'll be totally happy with it. :LOL Plus, if she *does* have the surgery, it means we'll be able to get off of the antibiotics afterwards.







I still think there's something else wrong, and I think I know what it is, but the nephrologist could tell me that it's out of the question, that she'll be fine once her ureters are reimplanted and everything will be fabulous...














raying:

My minivan is fixed! I was in a rental because they had to take apart my door and find out why it was locking itself. They found the problem-- apparently a bolt had been incorrectly tightened over some wires, and one wire was contacting another and shorting it.







: It wasn't in my head-- the door really did lock itself, and it totally wasn't my fault. Thank God for extended warrantees! I'm thrilled, because the rental is, quite frankly, not as nice as our van. It's much more cramped on the inside, and I had a hell of a time getting my niece's carseat in last night. Anyway, I'm going to take a few more minutes here and then get washed up and dressed to go.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

I know the kelty backpacks are great. my husband is an avid hiker (he's done most of the AT) so he bought our pack. He got a used llbean which they don't make anymore but you can sometimes find on ebay. GA loves it!


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

hi mamas!! It has been forever since I've posted. I've had a really rough summer work-wise and now I think I'm back. I've been reading the updates off and on. A few new babies since I've been here regularly!!!

Erin is still nursing. Why do i feel like I need to post that at a MDC thread? Most of the babies are still nursing at 23 months. I am ready for her to be done and at the same time not quite ready yet..... She is telling us when she needs a clean diaper, "erin, diaper, clean diaper" but not telling us before. sigh. I figure it will happen as soon as we begin stuffing her into a snowsuit for winter right?

Kelty backpacks -- we have one and love love love it. We have one with lots of extra spots to stash stuff. Which comes in really handy for trips to places like the state fair or for airplane travel. I think we might actually use it for backpacking next weekend? We did use it for day hiking labor day weekend (not the first time)...it is fabulous. I bought it used on ebay for about 100 bucks. I've heard lots of good stuff about another brand, maybe the tough traveler? or something like that.

Hope you mamas are well. brayg your new website is great.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

there's nothing like a short middle aged turkish man to put me in my place. i saw a doctor today, after i have had two friends basically yell at me about my being sick. i have pneumonia. it makes me mad that i need the title of the illness or any kind of conversation about seeing a doctor to really get my dh and some others like family to take notice, who i'm not going to go out of my way to call and report i'm so tired of lack of help. and even me. now i know i'm not just a depressed hypochondriac. the bitterness is just oozing out of me, or better yet, being coughed out of my lungs. i've been sick feeling wrong for 6 weeks and fighting it pretty well. hopefully when i don't feel like my head is going to explode i can forgive. but it makes me very scared. i know i didn't choose a beta male nurturing fella as a partner. i didn't know there was a place for that in the future. and i'm just not that self centered and assertive when it really counts.

sorry for the boohooing dears!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Oh Casina!







Go get some rest mamma, and feel better soon. I've had pneumonia several times (my lungs don't like me much) and it sucks.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

casina












































boohoo all you want!! cry and rant and scream!! pneumonia sucks and I'm so sorry you don't feel well and feeling unsupported. Grrr I really wish i could go help out..... like rynna said, go get some rest mama, drink some nice hot herbal tea and just take care of yourself.

Kerc!!! So nice to see you here again mama. We've missed you.









Rynna I'm glad things are looking up for you and that you got your minivan back and your sanity confirmed :LOL Good Luck with BooBah's appointment.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Hugs and healing vibes to rynna and casina

NAK


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Oh, casina, I am so sorry... I really do hope you get better soon. I know EXACTLY what you mean about no one really noticing when the mama is sick- stuff around the house still gets done, so who cares right? I was prescribed bed rest for 7 weeks and we didn't even have any kids at the time, but I still had to do the shopping, cooking, and most of the cleaning because DH is a lazy [email protected] He was basically telling me to have the baby early, even if he's a premie in the NICU, so he could get back to his usual routine!!!







: And when I have my three-day marathon migraine attacks and I'm asking for a little quiet time to get some sleep DH tells me "You're not sick, you just have a headache!" Grrrr!!!







So, I know how you feel. Of course when the men are sick, they're laying around moaning like they're on their death bed because they're so miserable and everything must be done for them... Ugh.

Make sure you keep that cough productive and get that yucky stuff out of there. And if you have to wait for your DH to get home to get in your car and drive to a park to take an uninterrupted nap, DO IT.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*
I was prescribed bed rest for 7 weeks and we didn't even have any kids at the time, but I still had to do the shopping, cooking, and most of the cleaning because DH is a lazy [email protected] He was basically telling me to have the baby early, even if he's a premie in the NICU, so he could get back to his usual routine!!!







: And when I have my three-day marathon migraine attacks and I'm asking for a little quiet time to get some sleep DH tells me "You're not sick, you just have a headache!" Grrrr!!!







So, I know how you feel. Of course when the men are sick, they're laying around moaning like they're on their death bed because they're so miserable and everything must be done for them... Ugh.





































Oooooooh, this makes me mad just reading about it! I'd have kicked him into next week! I was on bedrest with BeanBean for a while, and he and my best friend were barely willing to let me use the bathroom, to say nothing of grocery shopping and such.

I suppose I should count myself lucky that Mike's actually had a few migranes in his life. He knows how much they suck and he tries really hard to keep BeanBean quiet when I have them.


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

migranes....they are new to me in the last five years. before then i had no idea that a headache could make you vomit and want to die. So when my dh doesn't quite understand it makes it a bit more bearable for me.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Hi Kristin! Nice to "see" you again! Thanks for the compliment about my website.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Hey Rachel, how come your name is in a different color?? what did i miss??


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

eilonwy said:


> Oooooooh, this makes me mad just reading about it! I'd have kicked him into next week!
> 
> 
> > me too! I was on bedrest for one week near the end of my pregnancy with Mariah. My mom came and got me each morning when dh left (we only had one car) and I spent the day on her couch. She didn't want me to get up to pee either :LOL She made me wear house shoes to walk to the bathroom because she was afraid that the vibrations from my foot hitting the floor would somehow cause me to go into labor :LOL
> ...


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

I dunno...I must be special?







I'll have to find out...don't wanna become a social pariah or anything! :LOL


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

thanks for the love and support mammas. it means so much to me. i'm better now, emotionally. of course it took me going a little insane and having it out with my dh today. i've been crying the past few days just convinced that he did not love me. it seems even a little ridiculous stating that. and i tortured myself with comparing how i took care of him when he was in bed for a year and what i should or could have done. and when i went to see the doctor i just kept thinking, i've been much worse off, this is so silly. just feeling a little smirk of satisfaction when the nurse shook her head at my 102.7 fever, like i need to be ill to shout that i exist? and two friends brought me meals yesterday and the day before and i just thought, i wish i had this so many other times and cried that they were so generous.

i'm just ill, and i've been depressed obviously for all this time. and any medicine makes me weird. and i'm such a feisty person i can't just lay down and take it, i still try to be all powerful and do too much. hopefully i can learn something from this????? when i feel a little better, of course..... i've also found out that i do not want to be alone even if it means a break from all three kids. it confuses me and i want all the physical love i can get. i'm still convinced that i should advise ruby that the right partner for her will be the one that can intuitively take care of her the way she wants when she is ill.

i guess this is just another chapter in the life of a smart, beautiful, charming mamma's life right? if i were truly mediocre i think i could just lay down, too dumb to worry or care. somehow i have to instruct myself to rest. it's weird.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Healing blessings, Casina. Have you tryed taking vitamen A for the fever? It's supposed to break a fever real quick and when Haeven got a fever once, I gave her Cod liver oil (high in Vitamen A) and her fever disappeared that night.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

elwynn and i have been in vancouver for the last 5 days. i got to spend some time with two of my girlfriends, both who are pregnant now! ellen is 5 months along and ellora is 4 and a half. ellen and i spent a lot of time talking and lying on my bed and i got to feel the baby move!! she is one of my cuddly friends.. when we were younger our group of friends would all sleep over and snuggle into the same bed..all 6 of us sometimes. we dont see eachother much anymore..everyone either has babies or is going to school..or working lots.. she and her partner live in olympia washington, but she is training to be a waldorf school art teacher so she is here teaching classes at the highschool in vancouver. its amazing to see my friends transformed! i loved being pregnant and its wonderful sharing my experiences of being a mother with such close friends. i just wish we didnt all live so far away.

elwynn learned how to say "i love mommy" and "i love milkies" while we were away too.. melt my heart!









i went out and saw two bands that i love on friday night. it was the first evening ive been out without elwynn in ages. it was really nice to have a break and really nice to get home and realise how much i missed him!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

So you're back here again, fern? I've been thinking of you this morning. Are you going to come over? We've missed yall


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

sending healing vibes your way Casina! It sucks to be sick!

As for migraines I suffered from them from the ages of 10-14. I would get to the point where I would be praying to throw up so the migraine would go away. As soon as I threw up, the migraine would disappear. DH suffers from migraines every now and then and he turns into a bear but I understand why. I try my best to keep the kiddos quiet when he has one.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Heather, you're so lucky! I always fiht the vomiting because it just makes my head throb and I have to open my eyes to aim...







I've never had a migraine go away after I puked.

I'm having the worst time getting copies of my daughter's medical records.







: It's a real pain in the neck! I'm going to lose my mind!

My mother found a t-shirt that says "Warning! I am two!" I don't think we need it for BeanBean; he's a sweetie.







I saw another one, though, that says "I'm a BOY" that I'd really like to get for him, because I'm so sick of people asking. It's amazing, everyone thinks that BooBah (girl) is a boy and that BeanBean (boy) is a girl... even when I correct them. It's so freaking annoying!







:

So... what are we planning for second birthdays? BeanBean's first birthday party was pretty awful for me. It was supposed to be a great day for me, because the day of his actual birth was so horrendous, but noone made it aside from his godparents and I was so freaking depressed. I'm hoping that the rest of the family can make it this year.







It's not like I want forty people or anything, just the family and my best friend.














: We'll sing happy birthday, he'll tear open a few presents, we'll take pictures and have a cake. Nothing terribly fancy, just a "happy to know you're 2" sort of thing.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i don't usually do parties for under four, but i may do it since all three would enjoy it. it looks like i will allow a small amount of trick or treating this year as it is. i want clay to get over this tiresome candy fetish.

my mind is clearing it is really weird to not feel defeated to the bone about getting out of bed or getting a glass of water. i went to the bank to cash a check and actually looked at my picture on my driver's license. i've had it for weeks and it was the first time i even looked to see if i was grimacing or not. i can taste the times in my life that i was so bored that i stared and fretted over an identification photo for hours and weeks and so. such a different life i'm in now.

i didn't know that about vitamin a. fevers don't scare me though i welcome the healing usually (and i try to see illness that way too), and they get pretty high for me.


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

bday ---> i think we're going to do a party. erin







parties. thing is, how do you say "hey come on over, let's do cake and play with playdough and don't bring a gift" without sounding a bit crass for thinking they'd bring a gift in the first place? I should add that we're going to invite three couples, all friends from grad school, only one couple has a daughter.

we're making erin a feltboard for her birthday. she's among the oldest of the babies on this thread, I feel like we should have done it already! But that's what we're doing on friday night. That and I am sewing erin's halloween costume. We aren't doing trick or treating, but we are going to a party with the other daycare families. We will likely stop by her godmother's house on the way home.

migranes. yuck yuck yuck. the best way to get rid of them is to return to your pre-parenting state -- i.e. be able to have quiet, plenty of rest and eat whatever you feel like (or don't). obviously that's impossible.

i know many of you probably don't vax. We are a partial vax family, but I am somewhat relieved to hear of the flu shortage. I could go nuts and get erin in pronto for her 2 yr check up, but I'm waiting and thereby thinking they will have run out by the time we get her in. My ped is really cool about it all, but I hate to deal with his nurse.

tv was mentioned a page or so ago ... I just happened upon calliou yesterday morning and I might be hooked. It is on when I am trying hard to get dressed and showered for work and, well, that's darn near impossible with dd. DD isn't fascinated by the show in the way some kids are, but she's distracted enough that I can zip my own fly.

well mamas, this is getting long. hope you all are feeling better soon. I've got to get to the working....


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Nothing much to say. Same old same old. Zach and I are supposed to go to Mexico this weekend with my mom, but she invited a friend so I'm not sure exactly how it's going to go. I like her friend enough, but it's always different when there's somebody "new" YK? Anywayzzz... Gotta get back to the housework.

Glad you're feeling a little better, casina.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Good Morning Mamas







I hope that everyone is feeling at least a little better these days









We are going to go to the zoo with dd for her birthday, which is what we did last year too. We go quite often actually and she really enjoys it. We are going to invite some of our closest family members to come with us, so it should be a pretty special day for her









As for Halloween I don't think we are going to do anything at all, but we haven't really decided. Trick or Treating is out of the question really as we try to keep her exposure to sweets to a minimum at this point...

Has anyone heard from Xmas Eve?? i've been thinking about her lately.

So I have some exciting news that I am really trying to keep to myself but I just have to share with you mamas....
I'm pregnant!!








I just got the







yesterday so we really want to enjoy this ourselves for a few weeks before telling our families, people IRL, etc.

My baby is going to be a big sister!!!!!


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *punkprincessmama*
I'm pregnant!!

OMG OMG OMG OMG





























































































Congratulations!!!!!!!!!! (can you tell I'm excited for ya...you got knocked up!!!







: )


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Congrats, Punk!







I'm so excited for you!









I hate to admit it, but part of me is jealous!







Can you believe, my daughter is 3 months old and I'm already thinking about the next baby?







We can't ttc for a while (money problems & loss of milk) but it's already heavy on my mind.







Mike thinks I'm nuts-- having two kids is hard work, and he doesn't want to think about the next baby for two or three years.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

WOOT on the preggers punkprincessmama!!

xmas eve has been busy on the political threads. the countdown is truly here...


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Yay, punk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







I wonder if you'll have a grrl or a boy?


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Thanks for all the congratulations mamas







y'all are the best









Brayg, your turn next









Mamajaza, I'm wondering too. But we won't know until the big day!!


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Thanks for the dust!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

mamas. We're back from our trip, tired from the plane travel (mamas if you're trip is more than 3 hrs. get a seat for your dc!) but filled up with the spaciousness and sense of possiblity that often comes with changing the daily rhythms and stepping out of the comfort zone a bit. It was a good and healing time for our family mandala and I'm feeling grateful for that.

I'll post more later but I just wanted to pop in and say hi.








blessings, punk on your pregnancy


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Brayg, you are more than welcome dear friend
















solsticemama!!! We have missed you around here. Glad to hear that the trip went well for you and yours. Thank you for the blessings







Looking forward to hearing more from you.

How is everyone else doing these days?

Where is Saritasmile?


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

I feel so bad!! I was trying to join in and just disappeared. But I've been having a weird problem...this is the first discussion forum i've ever joined and i keep staying up real late reading things when i should be working. well the weird part is that when i go to bed at night, i start thinking about random things to talk about and its always in discussion form. For example, I'll think 'Does anyone else's dc kick the covers off or snore' really silly things that you wouldn't really want to write but it started to drive me a little crazy. So i've been limiting my time at the forums







Also my partner kept making fun of me for always saying 'well i read on the mdc forum last night...' I haven't read any of the post in awhile but congradulations! punkprincess! I would love to have another but i think razi would freak out! I can't even show someone how to use a sling without him getting really upset. I can't wear any other baby at all







he will probably be an only child for a long time for other reasons too. but i know i'm going to have more kids, not sure why i know that but i do.








I might be able to be at a birth real soon too! razi's best friend Kodi( 1 wk older) is about to get a new brother. due date has already come and gone! anyway i get to help with Kodi during the birth and i'm hoping to get lucky and be there for the good stuff!









solsticemama glad to hear your back! no kidding on the separate seat thing!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saritasmile*
i keep staying up real late reading things when i should be working. well the weird part is that when i go to bed at night, i start thinking about random things to talk about and its always in discussion form. For example, I'll think 'Does anyone else's dc kick the covers off or snore' really silly things that you wouldn't really want to write but it started to drive me a little crazy.

I do the SAME thing. I'm always thinking of threads I could start and what not, but there is so much information on here already.

I was just thinking tonight how I would like to spend a lot less time on the computer, because as it is, the last day I didn't come on here was the day Samaya was born. I'm not on here 24/7 or anything, but it feels like an addiction, KWIM?

and there seems to be so much controversy on here these days... the oldies leaving because of too many mainstream "wackos", the people voting for bush







(sorry if that offends any one here, but I *really* just don't get how "natural family living" goes with the conservative agenda), etcetera.

anyways, to get back on topic, my 22 month old DD has pooped in the potty ***3*** times now!!! And she pees in the potty all the time too. It seems like shes potty trained now, but of course doesn't use the potty when we go out







Shes so big!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

haha, i've been doing well by just sticking to this thread. otherwise i just really riled up.
i went to a wedding yesterday and saw old pals and one of my really good friends in mpls is expecting. i'm so sad i won't be around her for her pregnancy and baby. and another best friend is finally moving though she has distanced herself all year because of the plans and told me today that she'll be getting married in new hampshire in two months. i had no idea i would be so happy about someone i knew going into a second marriage with kids from both sides. what's interesting is that her ex is going to move up with her and live in the same apartment until she gets married and moves into her new husband's home. he may not have been the best guy for her, and he may decide to come back to durned louisiana, but i'm amazed that she's impressed on him the importance of having dada around. i don't know if i could do it.

p.s. what counts is actually voting no matter the discussion. and for this election, i haven't seen any kind of fruitful discussion. i think people have really made up their mind or are so afraid of change that they just do whatever, but even then are very solid in their stance. i can't even talk about it with my parents or inlaws.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

we just got back from visiting some friends on a smallish island off of vancouver island called "Mudge". it was great. they have a tiny wee cabin in the woods and you can hear the waves on the rocks... and only solar power(one lightbulb and a radio). no running water..no electricity..but elwynn decided to poop for his first time on the potty there.. in their composting toilet. it was really very exciting. he just came up to me and took my hand and pointed to his bum and said "poop..potty!" so i took him and he went. i was so happy.. of course.. he hasnt done it since..but hopefully it is a good omen. anyways.. we are headed home and pretty happy since elwynn hasnt seen his dad in more than two weeks and we both miss him a lot and i know his dad misses him even more.

we are sad that you are gone now jazz..







i hope all is well up in the kootenays. keep in touch okay? we love you!

i hope the rest of you and your almost two's are well too..


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

I'm new but not wacko!







well i guess some people think i am, like my mainstream dad









I wish razi's first dookie had been in a composting toilet!! He only goes in the potty if he doesn't have a dipe on. He's a morning pooper so if i get the dipe off in time, i don't have to wash a poop!! It's great in that respect.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Halloween- Zachary will be a scarecrow. We've been waiting forever to dress him up as a scarecrow since his hair is blonde, spikey, stick straight, and often resembles hay!

He's really into kissing owies right now. He says "hurt!" (which sounds like "hote" 'cause he can't say his r's







) and points to his owie and I kiss it. Last night I accidently scratched him with my ring while he was switching sides on the bobbies and he touched his cheek and said "hote" and I kissed it, and then he pointed to his lips and said "kiss?"














I melted!

He had fun at the beach this weekend. He loved swimming ("mimming") in the ocean ("eshen") and playing in the sand, getting dirty. Everyone comments on his tan skin and light hair- I'd never heard the expression "brown as a berry" until I had Zach and now I hear it ALL the time! He got my light hair and eyes, and his papa's Native American skin... Quite a combination.

His newest passion is dumping the contents of his bowl at mealtime and saying "Uh-oh, mess." Thank God for dogs, nature's vaccum cleaner.

My mom and I are voting for the same person in the presidential election, but both my dad and DH are voting for the other guy, so we feel like our votes will cancel each other's out!

I think my son has given up on naps or something... He's still running around like a crazy person, while the girls are snoozing. (He will actually come up to me whining "bobby?" and try to push my laptop out of my lap- talk about a guilt trip!) Crystal is home from school today because yesterday afternoon she apparently grabbed a hot coffee pot off a shelf in the classroom and burned her leg. The caraffe was empty, but the glass was still hot. She has a nice little open burn the size of a nickel on her thigh. I am so mad at this stupid school!!! She's not getting the kind of education she needs- it's basically like daycare or something. And they obviously aren't giving her the proper supervision! I'm debating whether or not I should ask the teacher and the aides if they'll pay my gass money :LOL, since I have to drive 50 miles into Phoenix so Crystal can see her specialized pediatrician (no one in our semi-rural community will even touch her because of her severe medical problems). Anyway, it just sucks that special needs students don't have the kind of options that regular kids do. It's public school or no school, and public schools suck out here! We are seriously contemplating selling our house and moving back into town, because Crystal can't get the proper services here. We shall see...

OK, my book is long enough. Thanks once again for listening to my problems.







s to my friends.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Oh, and I forgot to tell you the other cute thing he's been doing (can you tell I'm in love with my son?). He now refers to himself as "Gacky", and sometimes he's a cow ("Gacky cow moo" as he points to himself), or he's just a boy (when I ask if he's a cow/horse/doggie he'll say "No, Gacky boy.") It's too cute!

Yesterday Julianna was laying down on his bed (a crib mattress on the floor of my room) and I said "Zachary, Nana wants to sleep in your bed with you!" And he said "No, Nana- is Gacky Mama bed!" and he pointed to the waterbed. It's too funny that he knows he sleeps with me at night, and his little bed is just for naps and playing.

Anyway, I have to brag to someone!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*
His newest passion is dumping the contents of his bowl at mealtime and saying "Uh-oh, mess." Thank God for dogs, nature's vaccum cleaner.


:LOL BeanBean loves to pour things out and say "Oh, EliBean! You poured it out, what a mess!"







Mike put a stepstool in front of the sink, and now he goes to the sink to pour stuff out, so it's much less messy. :LOL


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Rynna, is your niece living with you now? i noticed a change in your siggy a little while ago and keep meaning to ask about that.

ugh, I'm really having a day. It started last night. i was just getting into bed and Mariah started making some noises. I went to lay down by her and we just laid there side by side quietly. She wasn't asking to nurse or trying to cuddle with me. Finally I asked her if she was okay and her chin started to tremble. I said "oh baby, what's wrong?" And she just started whailing, tears and all. My dh came in and we were both trying to comfort her. She was so sad, it was breaking my heart. She kept saying "sad, sad" Finally she calmed down, only for it to all start again. I brought her out to the living room thinking maybe she had a bad dream and it would do her good to get out of the bedroom for a bit. She started screaming for her daddy so he came and rocked her and walked with her and and then went and laid down on the bed with her. Eventually she went to sleep.







my poor sweet babe. Then this morning I turned on the computer and it was really loud and she started screaming bloody murder over and over until my dh grabbed her and took her to the other room. Then she was fine. She even came back and watched me work on the computer for awhile. It was so strange. I just started crying thinking I've traumatized the poor kid and she is not even two yet







I wish she could tell us what is going on, but she is no where near as verbal as Elibean or some of the other kids here









Then dh and I had an argument over something really stupid. I cried and cried and then I went to the store and came back and Mariah and I slept for two hours. TWO HOURS in the middle of the day! I really must be pregnant (if all the crying didn't convince you) *sigh*


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*
Crystal is home from school today because yesterday afternoon she apparently grabbed a hot coffee pot off a shelf in the classroom and burned her leg. The caraffe was empty, but the glass was still hot. She has a nice little open burn the size of a nickel on her thigh. I am so mad at this stupid school!!! She's not getting the kind of education she needs- it's basically like daycare or something. And they obviously aren't giving her the proper supervision! I'm debating whether or not I should ask the teacher and the aides if they'll pay my gass money :LOL, since I have to drive 50 miles into Phoenix so Crystal can see her specialized pediatrician (no one in our semi-rural community will even touch her because of her severe medical problems). Anyway, it just sucks that special needs students don't have the kind of options that regular kids do. It's public school or no school, and public schools suck out here! We are seriously contemplating selling our house and moving back into town, because Crystal can't get the proper services here. We shall see...

oh this kind of stuff makes me so







You are right, Crystal deserves much better! Every child is entitled to a proper education







I have been involved in special education in one way or another since I was about fifteen (first as my brother's advocate, later I worked as an instructional assistant, and in other various ways) and this kind of stuff just makes me crazy! I'm not sure how the laws are in different states though. Are you involved in her educational planning? Do they call periodic meetings to evaluate her progress? Where we live the parents/guardians can call an ARD at any time (an ARD is a meeting involving teachers, guardians, any specialists that work with the student and any one else the parent wishes to invite, for example you could have an advocate with you. ARD stands for Admit, Review, and Dismiss or something similar. It may be called something different where you live, but hopefully you see what I'm saying!)

If I were you (and I'm not! This is just my advice!) I would call an ARD. I would review what their goals (Individual Education Plan) are with Crystal at this time and see if I thought they are appropriate. Are they challenging, are they realistic, are they including her in the community etc. Is there a support group in the area? I know you said you are rural, but even one semi close to you? They often have people in them who are advocates, or they know of a lawyer who may go to an ARD pro bono to get your point across. ETC ETC ETC. Dont let them make excuses! It is their responsibility to provide a free and appropriate education to every student - it does NOT matter how complicated the student's issues are, or how small the school. i have worked in city schools and tiny rural schools. She is entitled! a support group or even a google search may turn up the specific laws. i would also bring up the issue of her not being supervised properly. Don't be afraid to be pissed off!! If they know you are angry they will be more likely to do what needs to be done. It is sad, but true in my experience. They will take extra measures because they won't want to piss you off further!!!

Feel free to PM me!!

Best of Luck to you. You are an awesome mama, and all your kiddos are lucky to have you in their lives









ETA:







I'm sure that some people on the special needs board here could tell you more about the laws. The more I think about it the more sure I am that the laws I am thinking about are Federal in nature. I am kinda in a fog today and not able to tell you precisely the laws I am thinking about but I'm sure some people there could help you more


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

She is living with me part-time. It's kind of sad, actually; she keeps asking me why I have to bring her back to my mother's house. "Why can't you just buy me and then I can stay here?"







She told my mother "Rynna has a nice family, I want to stay there..." it's quite a mess. :LOL


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

leah, is homeschooling an option for you? generally education professionals and homeschoolers can agree that three hours a day is plenty plenty of formal lessons, and then there's unschoolers like me who do not do lessons at all. my feeling is that the hardest part of homeschooling is balancing being accustomed to having the child with the parent most of the time, and how the parents feel about owning the responsibility of "educating".

ruby grew up. i'm not ready to describe - i don't want to hex any of you.

punk, your milk probably tastes really different or is waning, and mariah may not even have figured the specifics but knows that something is different. i hardly believe you have traumatized her in any way and i want you to stay away from this kind of thinking. sometimes we just get upset even when we don't know why. being emotional is okay for kids and adults. as long as we get the comfort we need and feel loved, which obviously she is getting. remember, you are not just starting a little creature that has taken over your body, you are making an entire large organ from scratch and meanwhile the puny ovaries have to deal with the hormonal madness until the placenta takes over. you're probably at the point that i get crazy about diet, and since it is harvest time and food is a little cheaper, it would be good to start some whole food habits. i know i needed every ounce of energy i could muster.


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

erin dumps stuff and says "messy!!" with this silly little grin on her face. It actually very cute. And of course we have a dog to help clean up.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Quote:

ruby grew up. i'm not ready to describe - i don't want to hex any of you.
hmm







dying of curiousity.
she didnt' start her period, did she? :LOL

if it was sleeping through the night, hex me, HEX ME!!!!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Casina~ I wonder if Ruby "growing up" has something to do with her being the youngest of three kids.

Punk~ Don't be too hard on yourself. It's difficult when you've got those pregnancy hormones running through your body.









Well, I've moved! I'm now living in the countryside, where I lived a year ago. It was a *9* hour drive with 2 babies (







) Not going to do *that* again for quite a while.lol. My mom is leaving today, and I'm sad. Haeven and I have been with her for almost a whole year. It might be hard on haeven, but my mom stayed a few extra days to try and "wean" haeven off of her. Now it'll just be mommy, daddy, and two babies. There is so many cool people here, though, and I'm feeling so welcome back into this community, whereas where I was before, living in the city, I knew no one. But I'm going to miss my little nephew Elwynn, fern and my brother.







Oh, well, I've still got MDC!

How is everyone doing. Yall seem pretty quiet these days.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Sounds like a good scene for you *mamajaza* Hope it all works out for your family.

This morning ds and I took a little hike together in the rain. The air was soft and misty and we saw some deer, numerous birds and trees and plants, rocks of all different shapes and colors. Little Mukti was such a good hiker, he only asked to be picked up for the last 5 mins of the hike. I had the foresight to bring the sling since he's been asking 'up a mama' so much these days I figured he'd want up immediately but he surprised me


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

jazz, we miss you girls! but im happy to hear that you are doing well.. the house feels so empty without you







how is ruby cat?

elwynn and i are doing well.. we stayed at yer moms place with tim while your mom has been away and it was fun. we made a big bed in the middle of the living room. our little family is getting along really well too right now


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Julianna slept through the night!!!!!!!!! DH went out of town on Thursday and she slept from midnight to 6 am!!! Then on Friday night she slept from 11pm to 6am, and last night she went to bed at 7 and didn't wake up AAALLLLLL NIGHT!!! I am soooooo happy, I hope I didn't just blow it by typing it up... I'll have to *knock on wood*. Zachary has slept through the night several times, but since he's still in our bed he wakes up and finds the bobby every so often. Anyway, isn't that cool!?! I love sleeping through the night...









I hope you feel better soon, punk. I can't even imagine being pregnant right now with these two monkeys I have... I can imgaine having another baby, but not the pregnncy part... Maybe it's time for another foster baby, eh? I can be a mama without being pregnant! I just hate the bottle feeding part... Julianna's 16 year old sister Alison is due in November, so maybe we'll be taking in her little niece. It looks like the mama will be stepping up to the plate and taking care of her baby (her name is "Hope"), but you never know... Julianna's birth mom was Alison's age when she had her, so... We shall see.

My monkeys are chowing down on raisins and apples ("papples and wozens"), but I think I need something more substantial in my belly, so I'm off to raid the kitchen!!!

Hope the rest of you are doing well


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

what's ruby doing? she gets entirely rigid about the littlest things. it is partly her age, and definitely much of her personality. reed was like this. clay and i get into it now, but it is different. anyway, i have been able to earn more cooperation from her than i ever have with previous children sheerly by the fact that she has followed me and her two brothers and dad....there are numbers to follow. now she is really start to set her mind to how she wants things to be done. the unignorable storms of voice, the physical assault on herself and others, unwilling to be consoled or sidetracked....like, me turning off the faucet after there is already a big mess but before she is ready. i do warn her verbally and she knows it is coming in those seconds, but now it has become more important to her that she complete what she had in mind.

today it was obtain the giant toddler cart and push it in walmart. well, after she has crashed into things and had a few near misses with people (yes, i know she is thirty pounds and two and a half feet tall and barefoot, please don't mind her), i made it clear that she could either sit in the sling or in various parts of the cart. she decided flailing on the floor screaming was better. i hauled her over my shoulder for awhile but walmart still makes me a wee bit tense if i'm supposed to meet my dh with my half of the list already (which is not usual) and being kicked in the face repeatedly does not always inspire waves of forgiveness for her babyhood in the moment. have i mentioned that my kids are freakishly strong and not afraid of pain or physical obstacles? at least now i just get irritable but not angry. i'm realizing now that most of my tension was dealing with my dh (i seem to always be too slow for him)
i learned the hard way, after years of reed tantruming until he would bleed from scratching and pounding himself as i tried to do millions of different things and flying back and forth feeling fear guilt and rage, that i have to be firm with my body about giving them security, yet my mind has to stay flexible. it also means i have to let go of my fear and anger so that they can calm down. i have not the discipline to alter vibes in walmart however. i'm beginning to suspect that takes true paladin powers.

anyway, it is not a big deal, just a shift for me from physical caretaking to a higher percentage of mindgame (my perception and reaction) which i remember tends to happen at this age. i'm predicting that by the age of four, she will be bossing the older boys around. they have already learned to do different kinds of play from her, like drawing, pushing cars, and tactile experiments. i'm also getting worn down by her slurries and potions because of the waste of food and the gooey cleanup and even her reckless climbing (i'm a pretty relaxed mamma about climbing, and now she is testing it further especially when other people are around and paranoid) but yes, she is still absolutely breathtaking in her rubyness. and she is starting to talk. and i'm so enjoying seeing that she has many of my talents and skills. i had no idea that they were such feminine talents. it may sound so self centered but it is a definite change from having boys.

the potty has been mentioned.....for the diaper to toilet transition, i have the feeling that every kid is different. ruby has used the potty many times but has no certain lines like she sometimes prefers the diaper, sometimes prefers nakedness, sometimes pees while she is busy playing, sometimes makes it to the potty, sometimes wears a diaper out and sometimes needs constant changing. now that i'm thinking about it, i think the main problem is that we have only one toilet in the home.....since we are a control freak type of people, it seems that my kids have toilet trained when they have felt free to do so and have total control over all aspects like climbing on, wiping, undressing and dressing. ruby is the only one that has used the potty, and now i'm also wondering if it has just made it into an occasionally amusing game. my bathroom door is almost always open. but if the light is off in the evening, it subtly alters behaviour until i can get the kid trained to ask for help to turn the light on.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Ruby sounds a lot like Julianna. *SHE* decides everything about what she is doing and why, and when she will stop. She is very over-dramatic, like throwing herself on the floor no matter where we are, or letting all her muscles go limp when you try to pick her up, or kicking and screaming to get away from you on her way to the floor. And when she throws a fit it is an all out TANTRUM where she is absolutely inconsolable. Zachary has never thrown himself on the floor, he mainly just screams and cries. And he will most likely calm down if you focus some attention on him, give him a hug and ask him to talk instead of scream, etc. Julianna doesn't have the patience to explain herself- she doesn't believe she needs an explaination and if you disrupt her plans you will have to endure the wrath of a female scorned. :LOL

She is still not talking much. She picks a word and repeats it for everything (she'll point to her toy and say "off?" or bring her cup to me and say "off?"). It used to be "out" and she'd say it slowly, enunnciating every syllable carefully. Now her word is "off" and she refuses to say "out" completely. Her speech therapist says we should ignore her requests if she refuses to use words we know she has already said (like juice, water, in, out, ba ba, etc.)... Ha Ha Ha!!! She is a stout, strong, STUBBORN Native American and NO ONE can make her do something she doesn't want to do. We butt heads sometimes because we are both so stubborn, whereas DH gives in to any of the kids who give him a little fight.

Anyway, rambling on and Julianna's up crying...


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

what you are mommas doing about pants these days. GA has a pot belly AND with cloth diapers 2T clothes are pretty tight and still way too long. Overalls work best but I don't have enough for everyday.

Amy


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Ds is napping at the moment. I've been reading along but haven't felt moved to post, just enjoying knowing everyone is involved in the day to day mothering dance.

Right now I think I'm dealing with a case of thrush...







: My nipples are sooo sore. We had 2 cases of it early on in our nursing relationship but managed to avoid another case up till now. I've been rinsing my nipples in a vinegar/water solution and applying a paste of acidopholous and water to them. Plus I'm taking the traditional thrush homeopathic. I've been thru the gamut of thrush treatments before so we'll see how this works. But boy does it hurt to nurse. Poor little ds is trying to be understanding but yesterday he was asking to be picked up alot which I figured was a result of not being able to nurse as much as usual since I've been limiting nursing somewhat till things improve.

Re pants. Try the pants from this site I've not tried them but they were recommended by another cding momma.

Leah, wow on the sleeping thru the night. Nowhere near that here.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

hghuk;pvgnjmnfv b,mnmnnbhbfcfcfcc ,mbxsbhhhjjjjjjhbjhm kjjfc dx

That was a note from Zachary. He likes to push more than one key at a time... Weirdo.

hbbvvvvvvvvvvvvv 8nyubtfr ex5rvi vvv bbbb

That was Julianna. She types with her thumb, believe it or not.

sosticemama, the sleeping through the night happened suddenly, like a switch had been turned on. We didn't expect it to EVER happen...








Peace


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Just wanted to pop in and say Hi! Life's been very busy (in a good way) lately. With a playdate on Mondays, Tuesdays we work our ECFE class, and Thursdays we have our class at ECFE, fitting in the 2 hour nap in enough time because we have to go pick up Jacob from school every day (and I hate waking a sleeping toddler!), stick around here until Austin's (the boy I watch after school--he's almost 10, so it's not work at all) parents get him. Then we run to the post office (between ebaying and my store, I usually run every day). Come home, and it's about time to make supper. Yikes!

Owen is just amazing these days...he talks so well, you can have a conversation with him. He will attempt to say ANY word you say to him--it's just so cool! We're still weaning...down to maybe once every couple/few days. On Thursday and Friday he nursed twice both days...I wasn't feeling well, therefore I laid on the couch a couple of times, which makes him think he can have nummies. :LOL

Pants...we do a lot of Old Navy, Gap, TCP--mostly sweatpants but we have a few pair of khaki and blue pants as well. I think a couple of them are Osh Kosh. I buy them all at the thrift shop too--usually only $1.00 a pair.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

casina- is ruby a capricorn? she sure souunds like it! and w/ more earth energy, like tarus, thrown in. and she sounds like she has some serious fire in there too.

i'll tupe more later-0 my keyboard is funky right now.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Ok
Back.









One of the things I'm having the hardest time w/ right now is finding common preferences. This is the most difficult when we are outside, and it is time to come inside- due to me having to go to the bathroom, me needing to eat, dd needing to eat, or needing to make / eat dinner. I will stay outside w/ her for long periods of time, way past when I personally wouldlike to come it, bc I know how much she likes it. But there comes a time when it is TIME to come in.







I have tried to find things that would make wanting to come in a good idea. But there is nothing that will "lure" her indoors most of the time. Often this leads to a power struggle- me picking her up while she is flailing about. This doesn't last long- sometimes only a second. Sometimes ½ way down the block. But it is that initial powerstuggle that I would like to be rid of.

She is doing great on the potty, as long as she is naked. Still not trying the potty trainers much, but when I have, she pees in them. I wish winter wasn't coming- I could leave her naked all the time. Sigh


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abranger*
what you are mommas doing about pants these days. GA has a pot belly AND with cloth diapers 2T clothes are pretty tight and still way too long. Overalls work best but I don't have enough for everyday.

Last night, BeanBean grew nearly an inch. Seriously-- yesterday he had to stand on tiptoes to turn the doorknob, and today if he stands on tiptoes he can unlock the front door!







: At any rate-- yesterday, he was the right hieght for size 2T pants, but they fall off of him. I tried putting a cloth diaper on him, and even then he doesn't have enough hips to hold them up so he is, likewise, in overalls. (These are a pain in the neck for a kid who uses the potty!







)

Today, I suspect that some of his 2T overalls will be too short for him...







I will talk to my sister and see to it that he's not naked.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

hi mamas









im following along, but just not much energy to put all of my thoughts into words at this time.

Mona, I don't know if this will help you but we have long had dd say goodbye to places and things before we leave. I tell her, we have to go in in a few minutes, and then when the time comes we say goodbye to the trees, the birds, etc. If she is still resistant, I remind that we will play again later, tomorrow, etc. It doesn't always work, but it has helped avoid power struggle a lot.

As for pants... We love overalls too, and buy other pants at the thrift store. I have also recently purchased a few pairs of wool pants on ebay at very good prices (7 - 10 dollars each, more than we usually spend, but I haven't had as much luck at the thrift store lately) The wool pants are nice, because they tell you the exact measurements in waist and length and you know for sure if they will fit or not.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I just had to go buy haeven a whole whack of new clothes, because her 2 size doesn't fit any more. It's all size 3 now. And I bought her some shoes on the internet, and ordered size 10!!! I guess I'll see if they're way too big, but I don't think they will be, I got the next size up so they'd fit her for the whole winter. Her feet are almost 6 inches long.

OK, that's me bragging about my little monkey grrl.









Haeven still wakes up in the middle of the night to nurse, and prefers boob-milk over any other kind of nourishment.









What are yall thinking of for X-mas?

Pants? Haeven doesn't wear pants cus shes potty learing. But if we go out, I put a diaper on her with size 3 pants from wal-mart.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

WOW size 10 shoes! GA has the smallest feet ....she's 25 pounds but her feet are only 5.5 or 21 she can still wear new walkers


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

:LOL
dd still wears 12-18 mo shoes/ size 4
she wears 18 mo pants, or 2T if they are smallish. when she gets rid of the diaper, it will be back to a 12/18 mo i guess.
and shirts- 12-18 mo, and a few 2Ts that are a bit large but still fit.

she's definetly a wee one, like her ma and pa


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

mama punk- i like your ideas. we do always say good bye to the place, but maybe i need to spend more time on that aspect. i also give her lots of warning, start mentioning it awile before it happens, then try to give her something she can relate to time wise to let her know that it is time to leave. like, one more xyz, then we are going home.
has anyone tried the stop watch thing? where you set a timer, and when the timer goes off it symbolizes that it's time to leave? i've been thinking about that approach...


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

elwynn is still in size 4 shoes but they are starting to be a tight fit and he is wearing pretty much anything between 9 months size and up. he wears a lot of overalls because hes so skinny that most pants dont fit ( like a lot of the kiddo's on here







) but he has gained a lot of weight. i think he's 22 pounds now and he was 17.5 a few months ago. it seems like he grows inches overnight as well.

he is using the potty quite a bit..but still prefers to poop in a diaper. im not going to force him to use the potty..i just dont think its a worthwhile struggle so if he brings a diaper i put it on him... he tells me when he wants to use the potty and he does it when he wants to. im happy with that right now.

he's really into trains right now.. and up untill a few days ago he called them whoo whooo..but now its "train" and when he sees babys he says "baby" and then points to himself and says "kid"

i think elwynn misses haeven, jazz!we were over there yesterday and he was looking everywhere for her







i felt bad and told him she was visting her pappa and he nodded yes and went on to other things.

well, we are going to walk to town while the rain holds off.. is it snowing in nelson yet?

what are your kids going as on halloween and what are you doing instead of the whole candy fanatics thing.?


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

BeanBean has a pair of size 22 preschoolians, because they are the only shoes I've ever seen which are wide enough for his feet. Even as wide as they are, if they didn't have such a flexible sole he'd never be comfortable in them. As it is, he loves them and takes every opportunity to show off "new shoes on a little boy!" :LOL







He's such a sweetie.

We also say goodbye to things; goodbye slide, goodbye sandbox, goodbye minivan...:LOL It's amazing, it's like if we're saying goodbye to it, that means we'll see it again so it's okay to leave.

When ChibiChibi was around this age, she decided that she wouldn't say goodbye to you if she didn't want you to leave. It made for some very tearful "goodbyes."







You'd hear her screaming after you "I didn't say goodbye, you can't leave!!!"







It was pretty awful. Well, it was for me, anyway. She was always very attached to me. I can remember when I first moved in with Mike and I explained to her about getting married and she said "I don't want you to get married, I want you to stay here with me forever!" Then she refused to talk to Mike for three or four months.














She was quite a sensitive little person. *sigh*


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

kids pants is the reason i took up sewing, which i need to find a way to pick up again. in the back of my mind i still think i could be profiting from selling kids shorts and pants, but then i just started my period and am chock full of all the ideas i've ever had and going crazy.

ruby was born nov 19, i think that's on the cusp? i'm not really surprised by her defiance since i've seen it before and me and dh both have it. but i had forgotten that my clay was a little break from that since i get into it with him.

it still takes being mindful for me to cope with limits. our kids need boundaries so that they feel protected, but i want my children to do what they want within reason. of course that means at my convenience. but they learn so much this way and learn how to handle themselves and consequences. i think what i still need is more of a rhythm....and the village. i think some of the babies here could understand a timer or whistle, but i know my two boys did not respond to this kind of reinforcement or understand. at the same time, i am a moody irregular person, so that makes things complex. on the other hand, i have certain things like i make dinner for my mil twice a week and they still do their best to thwart me sometimes- all of them. i went ice skating last week with the homeschool group and was impressed with the children older than mine that yelled and whined and cried and were held for different reasons. it certainly gave perspective. okay, most of them were the seven years olds but still, it reminded me that we're okay, showing our negative emotions is a beautiful thing and that being oppositional is part of growing up.

i know i have it easier because ruby is more likely to follow if i have the boys going. i remember it being very different with just one child. part of the reason i'm not sure about going to a wedding next month out of state and who i should have with me since my dh will stay home. theoretically it will be easier having only the one child along, but i have a harder time when i am alone with her generally. maybe i just don't want to leave clay. i know he's almost four, but i haven't been away from him for more than a few hours his whole life. and he still nurses like mad.

stats: ruby is thirty pounds, wears an 8-9 shoe and 2t/3t clothes.
i don't know how to explain to y'all with petite kids - sometimes i get envious. my huge kids are heavy, and the world and me and dh expect more from them due just to sheer size. of course there are generalizations with larger sized children like health but i have to be careful that their bigness does not do them a disservice. it is hard for me-i guess it is a genetic factor. reed is already past four feet tall and just turned six. i think i was that tall when i was at least ten. and no one believes ruby is not quite two yet until they hear her talk.

december sun, what's this about not responding to the words she uses? it sounds like it's just going to interfere with your relationship. our kids know us way too well they know when they are being purposely ignored. none of us can remember all the words we know all the time and if we are in the rush of need and desperation we certainly aren't going to be articulate. i'm mad at your speech therapist. i wish you could hear ruby talk, maybe that would make you feel less concerned about her talking. i know of a few almost threes that barely talked, and clay started more than ten words after two. oh, and has he made up for it. superdeelooperdeetooperty! is a word he made up and uses often to describe immenseness.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

mona, what do you do when you have to pee and dd is playing outside? do you feel your yeard safe enough to leave her for a minute? maybe you can compromise: enclose a much smaller space by the door and near a window where you can see her and make it so she can use the door to come in herself.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
mona, what do you do when you have to pee and dd is playing outside? do you feel your yeard safe enough to leave her for a minute? maybe you can compromise: enclose a much smaller space by the door and near a window where you can see her and make it so she can use the door to come in herself.

i have no prob doing this when we are in the back yard- the part that is fenced in.

but usually we are down the street at the park, or at a neighbors yard. i've almost gone into the buses a couple times, but our neighbors like to spy out their windows at this strange mama. :LOL

oh, and what you said about dec sun's therapist- i totally agree. it pissed me off too. dd still has her own verbage. sometimes she uses english, but often she prefers kathrynn. makes my job harder, but oh well. :LOL


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mona*
i also give her lots of warning, start mentioning it awile before it happens, then try to give her something she can relate to time wise to let her know that it is time to leave. like, one more xyz, then we are going home.
has anyone tried the stop watch thing? where you set a timer, and when the timer goes off it symbolizes that it's time to leave? i've been thinking about that approach...


Perhaps you're warning her too far in advance. As in ok erin in 15 minutes we're leaving? My erin doesn't need 15 minutes. She needs 2 minutes and then OK last slide and then it is time to go inside. She also needs for us to be really consistent. Last slide really has to mean LAST slide or the next week is her checking to see if she can get away with it.

I have friends who really like the timer. My own issue is that I don't think I could remember the darn timer every time we go outside.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
ruby was born nov 19, i think that's on the cusp?

Ruby, like BeanBean, is a scorpio.









Scorpio= 22/23 Oct- 21/22 Nov
Sagitarius= 22/23 Nov- 20/21 Dec
Capricorn= 21/22 Dec - 20/21 Jan

(Approximately, at any rate.) I told Mike flat out that we would not be TTC at any point that might result in a capricorn delivery, because I don't do well with capricorns, especially men.

Mona, I read over your post again and I was thinking-- you mention that it's time to come in because Kathrynn needs to eat or because you need to use the bathroom or make dinner. Why does Kathrynn need to eat at a set time? Is it really that important, or can it slide? Can you two work out some sort of schedule where you'll both get what you actually need? I have a hard time with needing to use the bathroom too, but if I'm going to take BeanBean to the park or something I make an extra effort to use the bathroom before I go because I know he won't want to leave for something so trivial. (I also make sure *he* goes before he leaves, because he tends to get involved at the park. :LOL) If he says that he's not hungry, though, and he'd rather be playing... well, I can understand that. There have been times when I was so involved in something I was doing that I didn't want to stop to eat or use the bathroom, and when I finally sat down at the table I realized I was ravenously hungry or that I desperately needed to pee. :LOL I can't expect BeanBean to know himself better than I know myself; he's only two, you know?


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

on the chart stuff... its not nec when you where born that will impact the most. the other aspects are equally important, and revealing. just a bit of FYI

eilonwy-
thanks for the feed back. nothing, well almost nothing, is set in stone around here. there is no set time for anything. :LOL i "try" to have dinner done by a certain time when it is my turn to cook, and i also "try" to be present when dinner is ready when someone else has fixed it. mostly out of respect for others. but again, nothing is set in stone around here.
i try to bring food along on our excursions, but sometimes they happen w/o warnring. and speaking of, i have to go to the bathroom like a million times a day. i eat really pure, so food goes in and out of me quick. sorry for the too much info on that one. :LOL perhaps i need to make more effort at making sure i have gone to the bathroom before leaving the house. i often get caught up in dd's momentum for leaving, and forget about things.
i will try some of the things mentioned in the next few days and see how it goes.

thanks everyone!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

I'm here but I don't seem to have anything to say.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

solsticemama, how are you feeling about the night wakings / the prospect of night weaning these days?


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

A timely question punk. Of course, when is it not timely? :LOL Ds is still nightnursing alot. It seems to fulfill a need beyond nutritional since he's 32 lbs! I can't see myself denying him that any time soon. But oh, mama, some nights are just exhausting. And I'm not my best at 3 or 4 or 2 or 5 a.m. YK! It's not like that every night but enough nights that it's not uncommon. A really restive night definitely affects my mothering the next day so I'm in a real quandry. I'm probably going to hold off till he's at least 2. I dunno why I've chosen 2. It's not like suddenly he'll be agreeable to it then. He's definitely got the language skills to understand that 'beuf goes night-night' (and tell me what he feels about that :LOL) but it still seems such a strong need for him that I can't see it being a very peaceful transition at this point.

How are you feeling btw?

Anyone's dcs sharing their dreams with you?


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

My DP thinks I should wean haeven.







And look at you ladies. It seems like the end isn't in sight, hey? I guess it's different for me because I have a 4 month old who needs the milk more than haeven. I'm constantly nursing the two of em'. When haeven wakes up in the middle of the night to nurse, I just say no, and she's gotten to the point now where 9 times out of ten, will go back to sleep without a whimper.

Dreams? Haeven doesn't talk that much yet.

Are any of you getting pressure to wean your DC?


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Owen is all but weaned, even though there seemed to be no end in sight 2 months ago. It's amazing how fast they change. He's doing well...he's doing the leading so I don't feel bad about it. I only find he asks if we're sitting and doing nothing. If he's kept busy, he doesn't even notice. We're going once every 2-4 days.

We've made a huge decision in our lives as well...we are going to be homeschooling Jacob. I'm so excited to do it too! Since next friday is the end of the quarter at school, it's a logical place to end.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Ooh, that sounds exciting Rachel! I was homeschooled and it was fun. I loved the traveling my family did.

Solsticemama- sometimes first thing in the mornings Zachary will talk to me in gibberish and it seems like he's remembering his dreams. So when I catch a word that I understand I repeat it and say "Oh, you dreamed about birds [or whatever] last night?" And he kind of thinks it over, so I can't wait to hear aout his dreams when he can explain it all!

He talks in his sleep quite a bit. Once he said "puppy!" and he osunded so happy. Another time he said "Bye bye train!" so we assumed he was dreaming about Thomas. And another time he said "Bye bye!" in his cocky tone of voice- the one he uses when he's talking back to me. He tells me "bye bye" when he doesn't want me to tell him "no." :LOL

Gotta go, my battery's gonna die...


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

I'm glad you liked it Leah. I hope Jacob does too. I'm very pumped about it--I have so many ideas already. Hopefully they'll all go smoothly with a toddler in tow.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i find homeschooling just an extension of the mothering i've been doing. it's always exciting to know about decisions to homeschool i'm so glad for you brayg, and i'm curious about your experiences december sun.

rose, sorry the nightnursing is not feeling sweet. jaza, part of the slinging for me was that it kept me from sitting down which made me a perfect target for nursing the elder all day. unfortunately that means i now have to make myself sit down occasionally because i forget to do it aside from nursing.

i'm in a strange transition with recovering from broken ribs and pneumonia. i got a cold this weekend and am currently flattenned by this period. but my mind is "clearer" than it has been in months. it is making me crazy. i suddenly see all the responsibilities i have been not doing and that my body and time still cannot make do. i couldn't sleep last night thinking about durned holiday presents because i'm tired of the problem catching me last minute. i know i'll find a balance one of these days, especially since i am disgruntled and it is affecting my mothering. i was more pleasant to deal with when i was just too sick to fuss at them. bleah!

saturday i'm going to a funeral for one of the local homeschool dads. he died suddenly in nigeria - he was sent there for work a few months ago. their 15 yr old son died suddenly six months ago - he had cerebral palsy and could not talk but could walk and move and think and write intelligently. so there's a ten year old daughter and the mamma. she blew me away the other day with her mamma powers when i went to visit her. after watching my son clay interact for a few minutes, she commented that i would need lots of luck continuing to unschool with him (that he would probably crave more structure). meanwhile, apparently the best playmate for ruby is a ten year old girl. everytime i get near one they become best of friends and i get a nice breather.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Good point, Casina~


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

No pressure to wean here..







Quite the contrary, I think Mike would be so depressed if I tried to wean BeanBean! He loves the way it helps him relax and such. In fact, I feel the urge to say no to BeanBean all the time, and I don't think that Mike even understands it. He says "of course he thinks the world is ending when you reject him like that."







Argh, the agony, though! I'd give my eye teeth for Mike to be able to nurse BeanBean. He actually latched on to Mike a few nights ago for about a minute and a half and really tried to nurse (I went to the store with BooBah). Poor kid, he really wanted his Mamma. *sigh*

The problem is, he's doing :flyby nursing all the time and it irritiates me something fierce.







: I wish he'd nurse or put it away, I don't like the back and forth deal. It's too much work with BooBah around, you know? Still... I am glad that I'm tandem nursing! BooBah has had a few growth spurts, but because I am nursing BeanBean, she has never had to have marathon nursing sessions to bring in more milk-- BeanBean does all the "hard work" and BooBah just slurps up the results. If BeanBean latches on to an "empty" breast, he's more than willing to sit there nursing for an hour anyway. When he was a baby, the milk always came too quickly for him but now he's just fine with the speed, be it fast or slow.

If only there was some way to tandem nurse without nursing through pregnancy....that would be the perfect arrangement!

Rachel-- homeschooling is so much fun! I absolutely love it. I'm homeschooling my niece and it surprises me how much BeanBean picks up (I'm not doing anything formal with him). The other day I was reading a poem with my niece and BeanBean interrupted to say, "Caterpillar ends up a butterfly. 'Caterpillar' is a noun!"





















It was so cute! :LOL They're both really enjoying it.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Typing in the dark, so pardon any typos.

Kids are doing well, love 'em more each day, nothing new to "report"...









The wetaher's getting chilly here. I wish I could invite you all over for a cozy tea party.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

I am having a hard time with nursing Mariah right now








It is quite painful at this time. I allow her to nurse with no restrictions during the day though. Our nursing relationship is so important to me... and there are so many other changes in our lives right now, that I want our nursing to be a constant for her.

I've recently come to the conclusion though, that I don't want to night nurse anymore, and that that is okay. Night was becoming a nightmare for me. It would take an hour or more to get her to sleep and then there were nights she was up six or more times. Every so often she'd only wake once, more often only twice, and so I knew she was capable of sleeping through the night, you know? I can't sleep when she nurses at night right now (because of the pain) so I was miserable and sleep deprived and NOT being a kind and good mama through this. I decided it would be best for us if we both got a good night sleep insetead







So I bought the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley and we started a night time routine.... It has made me realize how sensitive Mariah is. On a regular night now she is out in ten minutes (I nurse her down) but if we deviate from the routine in even a small way, we are back to an hour to get her to sleep. At night, I will still nurse her if she is really upset, if other things don't work, but the sessions are much shorter.It is working out well.

I finally talked to my dp very honestly about all this, and I told him there is no way that I can be getting up six times a night with Mariah and getting up with a newborn and keep my sanity. For me personally, that is not possible. We talked for a long time about all of this and he is finally understanding how hard it is on me. He is actively helping me now, he pats her back and talks quietly to her and its working, which has me ecstatic! He even slept next to her last night, instead of me and I dreamnt long and involved and intense dreams for the first time since her birth.

Oh and Casina, you were absolutley right, she needed to go to bed much earlier. She is now in bed by 7p, sometimes earlier.







Also, I have read that white tea has something in it that works to kill the bacteria that causes pneumonia. It's expensive tea, but if you can find a place that sells it in bulk that is the way to go. Take care of yourself mama. I am so sad to hear about your friend's family. I can't even imagine losing my son and my husband all in six months.

Congrats Rachel on your decision to homeschool









hmm. i think that's all for now







December Sun, I wish I could take you up on your offer









Heather, how are things with you these days?


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

punk~







I know how you feel. I was not very nice some times when I was pregnant. Just remember that this too shall pass, you are doing an awesome job. What do you think most other parents woould do when the mom got pregnant? The "baby" would be weaned like that*. Are you planning on tandeming? It's good that your DP "gets it" now. I hope you are getting all the help that you need.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

punkprincessmama-

I commend you for going this long like that. GA was like that AND I work 3 days a week. I was a complete basket case. I finally nightweaned her at 15 months with the Dr Jay Gordon method. It has been working great I nirse her only if she wakes up after 4 am (which she does like clockwork ...... so I can see how much was habit) Lately though she has been up every hour again ..... I have been holding to the no nursing until 4 but I am still loosing sleep again......better this than being up at night when they are teenagers wondering what they are doing I guess









Amy


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

This whole nursing thing is what's really holding me back from getting pregnant again. I don't think Zach is ready to give it up yet, and I don't want to nurse through a pregnancy. I'm ready to wean him, but I don't want to make him sacrifice his comfort for my maternal callings, LOL. Not to say that he CAN'T give it up- if I actually put a little effort into it I think he'd probably take to it ok... But I'm lazy and it's just easier to give in to him and nurse him! I love asking him if he likes bobby milk and he says "Mmm hmm"







It's just not time to quit yet, I guess. We have plenty of time...

I can only imgaine how "easy" it'll be to only have ONE baby next time. I'm so used to having Zach and Julianna (2 months apart) at the same time, I think I'll really enjoy spending so much uninterrupted time with my next baby!
















s to you punk. You are a great mama!


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

well mama's, i'm going into night 4 of nightweaning. i think it's really going to be okay! i thought razi would seriously flip out but he was a little sad the first night but now when he wakes up i just go lay down next to him and he falls right back to sleep w/o even asking for 'dee'. we go till about 5 am, which is perfect cuz i start getting pretty full by then :LOL
i think i need to check out the no cry sleep solution though cuz it takes about and hour to get razi to sleep latley. what bugs me most is that i usually end up falling asleep too! 8 is a little early for me to go to bed.
i actually have been feeling really empowered by the nightweaning. now i'm not the only one that can put razi back to sleep. not that i'm really planning anything but i feel like i'm getting a small bit of my own freedom back. don't get me wrong, i love nursing but it left the excuse that i was the ONLY one who could do anything for razi. you just shouldn't feel like you're the only caregiver when there are 2 of you around, YK?
i really think razi is fine w/o a sibling for now. i can't even hold another baby w/o him getting upset. i was told by 'someone' that he would be fine as an only child til he was about 5. which is good cuz i think it will probably be awhile till i feel like i know if i want more kids with dh. i definetly want more but...well i'm trying real hard not to say something mean about h so i'll just stop here







:

it's really chilly here! we got another snow storm the other day. i have a pic of the san fransisco peaks but i'm not sure how to post pics just yet. but they are goergous (sp?)
leah, i know you'd appreciate them


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

thanks for the hugs mamas


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saritasmile*
cuz it takes about and hour to get razi to sleep latley. what bugs me most is that i usually end up falling asleep too! 8 is a little early for me to go to bed.

I hear ya, mama! This has happened the past couple nights. I end up waking up about 11 or 12 fully dressed, teeth unbrushed etc. I have to get up and do all that plus turn off lights and turn on nightlights etc. Sometimes dh is asleep and sometimes not. It's hardest when ds wakes too and cries if I try to leave the bed so then he has to come with me while I do all this and he's 3/4 asleep at the time. Still, it means that I've been getting more sleep which is a good thing









Sarita, your post is encouraging. I'm glad to hear it's going well with Razi. I know we talked about it in August when we were in the PNW. It's hard to imagine ds giving it up so peacefully. I've been waking at 4:30 the past couple mornings and unable to get back to sleep so I've been musing on nightweaning and how it might go. I guess I want it to be a seamless transition with little or no crying and this doesn't seem realistic right now so







Has Razi's daytime nursing changed at all?


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

well i can't say that the nightweaning was the most perfect time or situation. a few nights ago my boobs were just completely numb. they felt numb inside and when i touched them they were numb on the outside. i felt like they were yelling at me!! so that was the night. no premeditation or anything. there has not been an increase in day time nursing or eating. which kinda worries me cuz he eats so little. but it was definetly easier than i thought. so take heart, solsticemama, when the time does come. i felt like our dc's were fairly equally boob crazy. :LOL (maybe yours is just a month behind







)


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## Trini girl (Feb 3, 2004)

hi all, just found this thread. i'm darcelle, mommy to kae ming 23 months old. married for 2yrs and some now. she's not nursing anymore, she stopped at 15 months and she doesn't sleep in our bed anymore either (she thinks she's grown).
ming is climbing a lot now also, and talking a whole lot. it's to the point now where i'm more tired than she is at the end of the day. cuz i get up an hour before she does so i can bathe and get some mommy time, then we go out and do our activities, playdates and what not. nice to meet you all!








Darcelle


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Trini girl.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

to the group and to the boards Trini Girl









a few things I've been thinking about and meaning to say :

Mama Jaza, I love the link in your siggy, please feel free to spam me







I've allready sent it to a few people myself









Eilonwy, I'm so glad that you are homeschooling your niece. I remember you posting awhile back that you wanted to but weren't sure if your sister would agree. I'm glad it all worked out.

I can't remember who brought up our babes and their dreams, solstice mama, was it you? Mariah isn't talking about her dreams, but I do think she has had a few bad dreams lately. She wakes up suddenly, crying, really really upset and pointing sometimes at the ceiling.







I'm wondering how to explain the concept of dreams to her?

Saritasmile, it's nice to see you around again









Casina, hope you are taking care of yourself and feeling better mama


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

punkprincess.. i was actually the one who found that radical parenting article and i posted it on the activism board a while back. im glad that jazz is using it as a sig thoug, so even more folks can read it. i found it on the girlmom forums, incase you want to check that site out. its pretty rad.









i dressed elwynn dressed up like a little black cat for halloween..we walked around town and didn't see much. heard lots of fire works and felt like i was living in a war zone. we trick-or-treated at one house and he got scared and we got a bag of ketchup chips..YUCK. it was a pretty uneventful night all in all..

elwynn tells me when he gets scared now about things. like when i get up in the morning to pee he runs after me and says "scared scared!" akk! ive rarely even left him for hours at a time. but he acts like he's scared that ill never come back from the toilet. i just dont get it. as for dreams..he laughs in his sleep often. sometimes he wakes up scared like he doesnt know where he is but he will nurse all fall asleep again quickly.

im trying to night ween him. i rub his back and sing to him. once in a while he will nurse to sleep but mostly he just rolls onto his belly and falls asleep. yesterday when we were getting our costumes on ( his dad and i were elves) he was sitting on the couch and next think i knew he had fallen over and was fast asleep. i cant rememeber the last time he did that.


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

Hey mamas! I'm always keeping up with all of you but find little time to contribute!

Hugs to you PUnk with the nightweaning. I'm thinking in the back of my mind that I'll have to nightwean ds early on if I get PG this winter. SLeep is so precious when you're preggers!

Tyson swallowed a penny Thurs night while I was at work. Dh is beating himself up over it and I am glad it happened on his watch and not mine. ANyway, I'm looking through the poo and so far no penny. The Dr said give it 4 or 5 days and if it doesn't pass they'll do an x-ray to see if it's caught up somewhere. I've been reading online about pennies being made of zinc and causing big problems if they don't pass in a couple days. Well, this is day 4 so we're getting nervous. Mainly I just know an x-ray will be traumatic. This is the kid who freaks out about getting his pictures taken at Penny's. He just sensitve and I typically honor his sensitivities. I hate when something comes up that we HAVE to do. I'm giving it till Wed morning and then I'm calling the doc.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Thanks for noticing my siggy, punk. And it's true, fern showed me the site. I just wanted to differentiate myself from the "conservative-crunchies" (







) on this forum.

Bethkm......... I *really* hope you find that penny!!!!!! You'd think our babies would be over the "oral" stage by now, hey? Haeven has been sucking on things off of the floor recently as well (







)


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

well mama's i'm pretty excited for razi's birthday tomarrow! he's the youngest in the group of mama's i hang out with so i think he'll be excited to hear 'happy birthday' himself. i got him a little wooden table with 2 chairs (made locally, yay!) he's been real into a friends (has a similar one)

Yikes about the penny. i let razi play with money sometimes. (that sounds really bad) probably a bad idea but he's never put it in his mouth.

mamajaza, i started reading your link. didn't finish cuz i felt like i needed to be more focused. what is crunchy? dh and i have been trying to figure it out. i thought just hippy, granola. tav thought unwashed hairy armpits. :LOL
that would be me









the only real dream thing was one night recently, razi woke up and came into the living room so fast and kept saying 'man eating'. i had to turn the light on in the bedroom and show him a few times there was no man. he definely seemed scared. i can only imagine. he can be pretty shy of men and to have one intrude on your dream! poor babe.

it's been freezing here and i'm trying to think of places to go that are indoors for the winter. new places. what does anybody think of going to the humaine society and playing with the kittens and letting dogs bark at us?


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

freezing! i can almost long for that. we have been indoors due to heat and now due to mosquitoes.

thanks for the hugs mammas. i'm so glad you are all here. i'm slowly wriggling out of this funk. yesterday i was reminding myself, wasn't it not too long ago that i was telling people i was working to WANT WHAT I HAVE. so now i've reminded myself what i'm working for again, pointing myself a direction at least.

nightweaning and pg. i would have been sad for some reasons if clay had weaned with ruby's pg, but it would have been the ideal time for it to happen in that i wouldn't have to feel it was my arbitrary decision. i guess i'm thinking in the big picture it was the most natural situation: drop in milk and probably change in taste, my irritation and change in focus. many kids wean at the time and i can't think of a better reason than for the mamma to prepare for next baby. then some kids nurse through it. right now thinking about it, i'm surprised that he did. the last month before ruby was born, he nursed once for five minutes to get to bed for the whole day. now he nurses more than ruby and he's almost four. it's like he's making up for his second year.

punk, it sounds to me like things are going well for you, from the long view of it anyway. i feel for you it is such an emotional time you are in.

so good to hear from so many of you mammas. anyone seen lilmiss around?

p.s. my perception of nursing includes that boys tend to be more attached to it as they are of mamma. girl babies seem to be more independent in general and possibly more efficient in nursing.

sorry so scatterbrained!


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

casina - glad to see you back.









no nightweaning here. can't explain it, but i just don't want to. even tho i am seriously sleep deprived and sometimes want to have my "munyas" removed in the morning. anyway, just isn't my thing i guess. YET. :LOL

anyone's girls entertained by their dp's penis'? my dd thinks my dh's penis is the most interesting thing. i think she's starting to understanding what it is as compared to her yoni. but it is funny to watch her reaction and what she does.









that's all i have time for. dd has been literaly nursing like a newboarn, attached all the time. so my time is limited, and i'm behind on evertyhing. SIGH


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mona*
anyone's girls entertained by their dp's penis'? my dd thinks my dh's penis is the most interesting thing. i think she's starting to understanding what it is as compared to her yoni. but it is funny to watch her reaction and what she does.









No... but BeanBean spent some time trying to find mine recently. I keep telling him that that is mommy's vulva and it is not for him to play with, but he's convinced that there's a penis hiding in all the hair.







Then he pointed to his scrotum and said "It's a vulva?" We had to work on that some more. :LOL He knows that BooBah has a vulva, but he doesn't understand why I don't have a penis and he doesn't have a vulva-- it's like he thinks everyone should have both, or that BooBah will grow bigger and get a penis, you know?


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
p.s. my perception of nursing includes that boys tend to be more attached to it as they are of mamma. girl babies seem to be more independent in general and possibly more efficient in nursing.

Casina, I've often wondered about this, and more so since my daughter was born. When she wakes up, she wriggles, stretches, puts her thumb in her mouth and goes back to sleep unless there's something wrong (she's sick, her tummy hurts, she needs clean pants, etc). BeanBean has *never* done this. If he wakes up, he wants something; usually these days it's to pee and nurse. BooBah, at four months, is better at soothing herself than BeanBean was for the first 18-- and I've always considered him a fairly easy child!

I seriously wonder if BooBah will wean before BeanBean. He's so attached to his nursies. Case in point, this morning: I woke up early to vote, and I woke BeanBean before BooBah because I knew that he would absolutely need to nurse before we left, that it would not be worth my while to try to leave without nursing him. He used the potty, got dressed, and nursed for 15 mintues. During this time, BooBah woke up. She smiled, rolled over, and talked to me. When I finished with BeanBean I offered her the breast but she just wasn't interested; she giggled and took her thumb.







She nursed around 5:30 am like she always does, and wasn't hungry so her thumb was better. She hasn't nursed again, and it's nearly nine thirty now.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
anyone seen lilmiss around?

I talked to her via PM about a month ago. She is doing great. They were getting ready to move out of the shelter and into their own apartment and she was hoping to have internet access at home in the next few months


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

Well, still no penny!! Two poops yesterday even. I'm giving him the rest of the day and then will call the dr tomorrow morning if I don't find it. I dread the thought....

Another traumatic day for him so far...we were at Target just now and Tyson fell out of the cart and smacked his head on the floor! He was in the back part of the cart and I must have moved it suddenly because he just flipped over the back. He screamed his head off and I picked him up and snuggled him for along time. It happened in a back corner of the store so thankfully no one came running, he jsut would have cried harder. He didn't want to nurse about it, just snuggled and we got out of there as soon as we could. Poor kid can't get a decent parent to look after him lately. I guess I just feel like he's a big boy in so many ways and I have let my guard down. Yeah, that'll change real quick.

DS loves to talk about his penis when I change his diaper. He names everyone in his life and asks if they have a penis. I set the record straight about who has a penis and who has a vulva. When he takes a shower with DH he gets a real kick out of that stream of water that flows off the end of his penis. I often hear DH saying something like, "No Tyson, we don't touch other people's privates, you may touch your own penis but not mine."

Ok, I wrote a book, gotta run. Ds just got his purse and said "I'm going to go vote!"


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

oh, wanted to mentin that it took a week for the dime to appear when she swalled that.

dd burned her hand on the burner today. so no parent of the day award for me today.
WAH!!!!


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## Trini girl (Feb 3, 2004)

ming plays with money also but has never put it in her mouth, she called it "tootie" and puts it in her pocket or purse. took her to the library this morning for a storytelling thing. it was ok but not much to my liking, don't really know why yet but i didn't get a good feel. ming didn't seem to like it much either.
as far as the privates thing...yes ming tries to touch her dad's penis, he asks for it though. walking around naked. she calls his penis "boo boo". she hardly calles anything by it's real name, she has her own little language. no matter how much i tell her, i'd be like, "that's money, say money" she'd say " yeah mommy tootie"...ok whatever.
Darcelle


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

:LOL :LOL that was so funny what you wrote about the language thing.
dd is the same way. i KNOW she can say certain words, but just is set on her own verbage.


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## Trini girl (Feb 3, 2004)

it's really weird eh. cuz sometimes i hear her say the right word but when i ask her what she said she goes back to her own stuff. oh well, i'm not worried about it.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

My DD is the *same* way! She calls boots, boogers...wil not say yes.....says "Maya" for Samaya, and uses maya for a lot of other words







My DP really doesn't like it when she doesn't use the right word, and they will "argue":LOL, but I think it's cute! I know shes just a strong independant grrl, and will be a good talker once she wants to.


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

The whole language thing is amazing to me. DS has a lot of his own words for things but I am sad to say some of them are disappearing. He used to call his drink/cup "go-go" but now he says drink or cup or water. About the only one he says anymore is the one for stroller which I couldn't begin to spell. DH uses DS' own words, I tend to repeat the correct one. I guess that's why they are disappearing.

Ooops, DH is getting him out of the tub. Jammie time.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

elwynn is pretty good with words but he does have his own too.. he says "goh gosh" for all gone and "hide" when he wants the other boob. he started to call nursing boob.. he is nursing a lot these days and is really really whiny and very attached to me. ive been pretty busy painting for the last few weeks and i think he's feeling upset about it, but im still right there! i just dont want him in the room with paint fumes. i think his dad feels upset because i have had a friend staying with me and elwynn seems to get along with him better.. but i think its because my friend just gives elwynn anything he wants?! im not sure. i hope that they figure it out with eacother so no one feels bad for too long. do any of your little ones prefer you over your DP? is it normal and are your littles teething right now? i get the feeling that the whininess is due to pain in the mouth. its my best guess anyways. potty training is going very well. he's had dry pants for two days with only 2 tiny leeks and we made it to the potty to finnish up. im so proud!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

mamafern, sometimes some people just get along better than others, and kids have a special instinct for those people that are open and nonjudgmental and respectful. and of course ones that will do anything for them. and yes, this crosses family lines since we are such individuals in this society. if your dp has any fears about being a dad, i would imagine that elwynn can sense it. and no, there's not much you can do about it. it is their relationship. even in my very bonded marriage i have had to learn to step away from the politics between the kids and dad. i have to trust that he is daddy and and they all do what happens. otherwise is it just meddling where everyone just gets mad at me. now on the other hand, my best friend has done very well with her ex and her dds - she has facilitated their relationship by making sure that they have access and freedom with each other, to the point where he is a better dad than we expected. but still, how he interacts with them personally is beyond her control (yes, even when he talks bad about her, which is starting to only make him look bad), and kids are smart enough to know that it is separate from mamma if she is not in the thick of the problem.
maybe you can find a way to ventilate the paint fumes. maybe a fan pointing out a window? or possibly he would find a mask amusing. if he is tolerating being around you while you do any kind of work, i strongly recommend you facilitate this very special boon so that you can reap the rewards. i sure wish i had and this is one of my biggest struggles - learning to be me and mamma at the same time.

mona, unfortunately, this is how kids (and adults!) learn that stoves can be dangerous simply by the consequences. i have found that i have an easier time with this since i started having a gas stove (obvious flame). hope you don't feel too bad about it otherwise. it definitely does not reflect on your parenting! these kinds of things happen to many of us mammas.

and bethkm, same for you on the fall! i'm sure you are more than a decent parent and accidents happen. we cannot protect them from everything, and we should not or nothing exciting would ever happen. uhoh, i might be quoting finding nemo. when i was in new orleans for a wedding ruby slipped on the wrought iron chairs and had a big goose egg on her head. she tends to howl more because she's mad that it happenned rather than the actual pain. i did feel bad but not enough to leave and had to remind myself that a big bump on the outside was better than a concussion on the inside. i think it is our reactions that count at this point - showing that we love them is more important than feeling fearful and angry, though that has it's use as well.

sorry gals, i know that ruby might be a little less frustrated when she can talk, but i'm just enjoying her lack of command. i do love hearing her little voice and her wonderful words and singing, but my atmosphere is filled with verbage already. being able to talk does not mean that they know what they want, and her lack of talking keeps me from trying to reason with this itty bitty child.
i have little pieces of modeling clay and playdoh everywhere now but no more water and food slurries and potions from her. it's a compromise. i've given up on the drawing for now. i'm just so thrilled i have a child that draws at all. this also means i am tattoed with marker and pen. i've been rubyfied!


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

I totally agree Casina. We can't protect them from everything and I feel Tyson has learned some valuable lessons by experimenting and sometimes getting hurt.

Well, the penny saga continues. We are going for an abdominal x-ray after his nap this afternoon. I'm dreading it because he is so scared in any new situation. I'm worried that the penny is in there and they'll have to go get it, but I'm also worried that it's not in there and he never really swallowed it and this is all for nothing. DH was alone with him when it happened and now he is second guessing himself. I guess there's only one way to find out....


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

well, i went back to bed with this feeling of peace and how we all just need total acceptance. especially me towards my kids and here i am feeling sour having broken some of my rules. i have already threatened daycare and school and even implied than females may be better than males which is a first. ugh. now i have the rest of the day to forgive myself and get out of this funk and learn to be in the now. it just gets so hard sometimes to be this mamma that i intellectually know i can be and am able to be sometimes, when i wake up acting like my own mom. it is partially my fault for allowing them some of halloween and the sugary wrecks they are and them staying up til midnight the past few nights and still popping up early. they do not have the discipline to understand those consequences and i will just have to learn to have the discipline for them and find the adult in me. bleah!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I get a kick out of it when BeanBean talks. I especially enjoy it when he freaks people out, but I work extra hard not to make a big deal about it. Sometimes he doesn't want to talk to people, and sometimes he does; I don't push him either way. I'm confident that he'll let me know if he needs something, and I don't feel like his speech (or lack thereof) is any comment on my parenting or anything I've done, so it's just not a big deal to me. It's fun, but it's not what I think of when I think of my son, you know?

We're having a birthday party for him on Saturday. A small gathering of friends and family, celebrating the fact that I became a mother, and that I've made it two years without any major issues despite the horrors of the pregnancy, labor and delivery of BeanBean.







Yes, I'm the first to admit that this party is for me. I expect to hear about all the things I've done right for the past two years, and to bask in the reflected glow of his brilliant Babyness, soon to be lost forever as my BeanBean evolves further into a Little Boy.

I think it may be time for a new thread, don't you?


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