# A question about CIO babies



## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

So... don't they still cry every single time they go to bed? Like even a year after the CIO has started? I was just thinking about this (after watching a CIO kid today







- don't worry I did NOT CIO them!) and wondering how anyone interprets this method as working? Or do they actually stop crying eventually?

Anyway, I've had too much champagne by now but this makes me sad. My youngest is four and he nurses to sleep most nights. It is so easy and everyone is happy and not traumatized. What is so hard about that?

I wonder if eventually CIO will be completely done away with? I'm going to make a poll about this. I'll edit to add the link when I do.

I almost forgot to edit in the poll.









http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=819818


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## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

I think some always still cry and some eventually go down without crying, from my friends' experience.

For some they just do it the 3 days or a week like all the books promise, and they really do get their babies SSTN and going down w/o crying independently thereafter - sort of -- they have to start all over every time something happens - teething, colds, daylight savings time, going on vacation, milestones. But more nights than not they're going down quietly.

For others, it's just become the baby's way of going to sleep - crying for a little (or long while).







Every night.

Usually IME these are the people whose babies weren't easily soothed by anything else either though - they tried rocking to sleep, nursing to sleep, going for a car ride, whatever, and were having screaming for an hour anyway, so they've kind of given up and just said "well, they might as well be in the crib if they're just going to cry no matter what I do." Just like the above babies who were so easily "trained" were probably born good sleepers and would have been SSTN pretty early on without CIO anyway.


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## EyesOfTheWorld (Apr 20, 2004)

I've watched several CIO babies in my life, and I've never had one that full-out cried. I worked in a daycare full of cribs where we just put the babies down and walked away (this still broke my heart at 18) but they all seemed used to it. A handful of them fussed for a minute.

I think the idea is that they learn crying won't help so they just give up.


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## EyesOfTheWorld (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cotopaxi* 
Usually IME these are the people whose babies weren't easily soothed by anything else either though - they tried rocking to sleep, nursing to sleep, going for a car ride, whatever, and were having screaming for an hour anyway, so they've kind of given up and just said "well, they might as well be in the crib if they're just going to cry no matter what I do." Just like the above babies who were so easily "trained" were probably born good sleepers and would have been SSTN pretty early on without CIO anyway.

Just wanted to add in that in my personal experience, most people I know who have done CIO (included my MIL, which I think negatively impacted my DH) have done it because "the baby has to learn to sleep on thier own". Several view it as a form of discipline.


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:

I think the idea is that they learn crying won't help so they just give up
Yes. Except most people *I* have encountered, (over a decade of childcare so quite a few) don't think about it in those terms, they think of it like: it's time for the baby to "grow up" a little and "learn" to go to sleep by themselves and stay asleep because they're old enough, and mom and dad need to sleep through the night and baby needs to be on a schedule.










The vast majority of CIO infants I've taken care of or known of stopped crying after 2-6 wks. There are those who go on for months, though. Awful, isn't it? I just can't imagine it.


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## Katielady (Nov 3, 2006)

A friend of mine is a major CIO mom...she keeps mum about it for the most part, but I get little snippets of info about it here and there. From what I can gather, they had a long period (weeks? a month or two?) where he cried himself to sleep almost every time they put him in his crib. Now, he usually just goes to sleep when put down. But when he wakes up from teething pain or whatever, he cries alone in his room for a little while and his parents listen to it on the monitor, and eventually he "puts himself back to sleep," as she proudly puts it.








:







:

makes me sad too.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

"Putting himself to sleep" should not be confused with "giving in to exhaustion & giving up." Big difference.







:


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## Katielady (Nov 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
"Putting himself to sleep" should not be confused with "giving in to exhaustion & giving up." Big difference.







:

I know. And then she notes how happy my kid is, and how her son is "so serious." I've noticed that about the CIO babies I know- they just don't smile as much.


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## k9sarchik (Nov 11, 2006)

Thank goodness I don't know any CIO moms yet.

DH's Grandmother kept insisting that we CIO because that's what she did with her son (DH's Dad). She is so proud that she "taught" her son to sleep through the night the first week she delivered him. She told us that she absolutely would not feed her son at night and that he cried for 3 nights straight and "learned" that he was not going to eat at night.







:








I wonder why he has this horrible nervous eye blinking condition!

I told her that doing that was "old fashioned" and she just turned her head and said "thaaaa."


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## ruhbehka (Nov 5, 2006)

Some do, some don't.

I've seen plenty who, as older babies or toddlers, just curl up happily in bed and kick the wall or roll around a while before going to sleep.

My son, however, was a nervous wreck for three days after my baby monitor died during a nap (6 months old) and he woke up crying. I guess he was crying for a while, but I was in the kitchen and didn't hear him (assuming the monitor was working














and when I went down the hall and saw, he was hysterical, sobbing, terrified.

For several days afterward, he would just start sobbing out of the blue, while sitting and playing. It was really heartbreaking. And he would wake up from naps screaming.

I can't imagine ever doing it on purpose, night after night.


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## Mrsboyko (Nov 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ruhbehka* 
My son, however, was a nervous wreck for three days after my baby monitor died during a nap (6 months old) and he woke up crying. I guess he was crying for a while, but I was in the kitchen and didn't hear him (assuming the monitor was working














and when I went down the hall and saw, he was hysterical, sobbing, terrified.

For several days afterward, he would just start sobbing out of the blue, while sitting and playing. It was really heartbreaking. And he would wake up from naps screaming.

I can't imagine ever doing it on purpose, night after night.

Same here. We don't have central air, so we use a big loud fan in hte summers. I had it going at night and didn't hear DD till she was really worked up one night. She refused to go near her crib for about 2 weeks after that day. I think that is what convinced me that even if I wanted to, CIO would never work for her. Too bad my mom just doesn't believe me. I have to go over the rules with her if DD is at her house and will need to sleep (nap or overnight)


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## mrsdocmartin (Nov 16, 2006)

This is the only place I don't feel like I am the only one who just feels so sick to my stomach when I think of any baby crying himself to sleep. Ever since I had Quinn, I feel real pain, not just sympathy for all little babies. Poor little things, laying there crying thinking no one is coming for them.


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## Katielady (Nov 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrsdocmartin* 
This is the only place I don't feel like I am the only one who just feels so sick to my stomach when I think of any baby crying himself to sleep. Ever since I had Quinn, I feel real pain, not just sympathy for all little babies. Poor little things, laying there crying thinking no one is coming for them.









I know! It hurts me to think about it, especially when I see the babies I know it's happening to.

I really think that that whole phenomenon is a big part of what's wrong with our society.

This is getting even more OT but what the hey...I've been watching DVRed old episodes of 7th Heaven during lunch...it's a trashy show and so corny, but I love it. But the way they parent the newborn babies! Yikes! The way they treat the teenagers doesn't shock me as much, even though it's not how I plan to do it. But even though it's just a show, it makes me so sad to see crying babies in bucket car seats in the house, being lamely rocked and sung to from afar by their siblings and parents. It's like that in almost every scene in recent episodes. I'm sitting there thinking "PICK HIM UP! PICK THE DANG BABY UP!" and they rarely do. Again it's just a dumb show, but it really is a cultural mirror too. That's how most people think having a baby is supposed to be. The baby cries constantly while sitting in some device or other, being held only for feedings and diaper changes. Now that I've been doing things in a more "natural parenting" way for so long, it just looks so INSANE to me. And yet that's the mainstream way. Bizarre.


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## nubianamy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katielady* 
But even though it's just a show, it makes me so sad to see crying babies in bucket car seats in the house, being lamely rocked and sung to from afar by their siblings and parents. It's like that in almost every scene in recent episodes. I'm sitting there thinking "PICK HIM UP! PICK THE DANG BABY UP!" and they rarely do.

My SIL parents this way.









My mom sadly comments on pictures of me and my sister when we were babies -- almost always in the crib. Never in arms.







And yes, I've had trouble with intimacy.


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## Evie (May 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural* 
Anyway, I've had too much champagne by now but this makes me sad. My youngest is four and he nurses to sleep most nights. It is so easy and everyone is happy and not traumatized. What is so hard about that?

That does sound nice. Unfortunately, for a lot of babies/children it isn't that easy. My daughter nurses to sleep as well. The problem is what happens when you try to take the boob away from her. She wakes up, she cries, she literally cannot sleep at night without being latched on. Which is not the most restful sleep for me, as you may imagine. (That is to say it isn't restful at all.) Fortunately we seem to have reached a solution (which involves no longer co-sleeping, but the baby seems to sleep better and I know I do, so that's what we're doing) but there were several months there where I was ready to tear my hair out from all the night-wakings.

I'm not really sure what my point is. Just that it's difficult for some parents to get their little ones to sleep and I sympathize with that, I suppose.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

One mom I know who did CIO (at 4 months because she 'couldn't handle' him waking up 2 or 3 times a night







) - her son still has to cry for 'only' 15 minutes for every nap and every night.

It's no problem she says - she just does laundry in the basement (his bedroom in on the second floor) each time. She talks about it as a something to be proud of. She's soooo caught up on laundry.

And every time something big happens - it's back to an hour or more.

The worst part is how selfish she was about the whole thing. Sure - she looked a little tired before she started CIO - but not nearly as bad as many moms I know. And after - she looked all happy and well rested. Her son was miserable.


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## miche28 (Sep 16, 2006)

I think it depends on the child - I think even Ferber came out with that a little while ago. There are some kids who will cry indefinitely -I suspect my DD would have been one of them. And even those who do eventually go down will revert at every change in the routine.

My cousin had a daycare kid who cried through a two-hour "nap" from 15 months to age 2 every single day. Like not howling crying the whole time, but awake and distressed. The mother thought it was great and my cousin had no issue with it. Eventually, they just decided he wouldn't have a nap anymore. It still makes me sad - and how could you listen to that much crying???

As DH puts it, with co-sleeping and night parenting as we did, our sleep was maxmized and our crying was minimized. So, who is the "sucker" exactly?







He's so binary, I love him.


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## Datura (Mar 18, 2005)

One of the reasons I don't keep much contact with my extended family is their firm belief in CIO and utter disregard for the child's feelings.







The way my little cousins are treated is heartbreaking to me.


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## SollysMom (Jan 5, 2008)

My sister did the Ferber method with my nephew when he was around 10 months. She said it took around 3 days and after that, it worked every time and he no longer cried. Even now at 2 1/2, he sometimes protests bedtime but does go right to bed when it is time.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I guess it does "work" for some people.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Datura* 
One of the reasons I don't keep much contact with my extended family is their firm belief in CIO and utter disregard for the child's feelings.







The way my little cousins are treated is heartbreaking to me.

Me too. My direct family isn't bad. But I certainly DO NOT associate with anyone who does CIO. I just can't handle it. Everytime I see their babies I want to cry. I don't understand how anyone could torture their babies in just a way.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evie* 
That does sound nice. Unfortunately, for a lot of babies/children it isn't that easy.

I do realize that. Sorry, that was not how I was meaning it that night. It was New Year's Even and I had already had champagne earlier so I wasn't seeing the whole picture how I normally try to.









My first two did do this and I came up with a technique to pull them off the boob without them waking. They were really light sleepers so it was very tricky but once I perfected it it worked wonders and I started it really young with my third. It's hard to describe but I think I read somewhere on here it has an actual name, like the Pantley pull off or something. I did it on my sister's baby when she was done nursing her and she was amazed at how how well it worked. I think it takes a lot of practice though.

Oops, okay, I just read you said you're not dealing with this anymore. Well, maybe someone will read who is and it'll help.









I just wanted to add too that, you know, either way it's not working. Either 1). They're still a bit distressed every time or 2). They've completely given up hope that anyone will care or meet their needs. Not working IMO.


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## mama_ani (Aug 2, 2007)

My niece is left to CIO and she does cry every nap and every bedtime still and she's almost 2.







It breaks my heart. Honestly, I make sure I'm not there at nap/bed time because I can't stand how horrid it is.


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