# non-AP mamas who want to think they're AP?



## calynde (Feb 11, 2005)

That's a confusing title!









I'm just wondering because I know a few mamas who seem to feel an obligation to fall somewhere under the AP label...even though they so clearly don't parent that way. Do you think it's because of the word "attachment"? Maybe many moms feel like they won't be attached enough to their kids if they do things non-AP. Or is it just because AP is the latest buzzword? or what?

Basically, it seems just about everyone considers themselves AP even though they really aren't. Does that make sense? Or maybe I'm confusing AP with the "Mothering" community...which is rather about natural family living...which includes AP but doesn't refer to it exclusively.









One girl I know here has done everything so contrary to anything I would consider AP and yet she still refers to herself as an AP mom. I always wonder why she doesn't feel comfortable enought to just be what she is...whatever it is. It almost seems like a matter of being "politically correct" or something. Know what I mean? Is AP just becoming another phrase? It seems to be watering down pretty fast.















:


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

I don't know the answers here, but I definitely know mamas like that. It's like they think it's cool to be AP, and maybe they do a few things like breastfeed longterm or whatever, but the rest of the parenting is way out there! No one here on MDC though.


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

When I read that title it made me think of the poster on a mainstream board who described herself as "pretty AP" in the same post as she gave a how-to on CIO and a description of their experiences with it and her "success" (hey, the baby only cried for an hour the first few nights!!







) I think there are degrees within AP, but if you're advocating clear CIO to "sleep train" your baby - you ain't there...


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## KA29 (Jan 8, 2006)

I think AP is kind of a spectrum so to some extent people's judgment of what it is matters. Also, you're right about AP and natural being separate to some extent. I've met people who are Natural who I would not consider AP and people who are AP but not into Natural living.

Myself, I know I am more AP than Natural Living (though I think AP has made me want to be more natural...







). Honestly though, I wish AP was more 'trendy' than it is (at least here in Virginia) because to me, that would mean people are feeling pressure to do AP things and maybe that would increase mother's bfeeding rates and babywearing and other people's tolerance toward NIP and reduce parents doing things like CIO and spanking etc etc etc.


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## saritabeth (Jun 25, 2004)

I think of AP as a range of ideas....some people are 'more' AP than others, but I think there are lots of things that are AP ideals. I personally don't define my parenting. Im doing my best every day some of it is very 'AP' while other things may or may not be. I think it's dangerous to sign your name in blood to any parenting trend because there are some things that, no matter how great one thinks they are, may not work for a specific kid. There are plenty of things some of my friends do that I just wouldn't do...and Im sure they would say the same about me. Generally Im too busy to take stock of who is the most "AP mommy" of all...


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

I don't think of AP as a checklist. I don't think of AP as an exclusive club, that only people who follow everything on the checklist can belong to. I also don't really spend much time judging other people's parenting against some kind of checklist. So no, it doesn't really bother me much what people call themselves. CIO bothers me, and so does yelling and put-downs and spanking, but a mama can call herself any thing she pleases, and that's fine with me.


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## oyemicanto (Feb 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Llyra*
I don't think of AP as a checklist. I don't think of AP as an exclusive club, that only people who follow everything on the checklist can belong to. I also don't really spend much time judging other people's parenting against some kind of checklist. So no, it doesn't really bother me much what people call themselves. CIO bothers me, and so does yelling and put-downs and spanking, but a mama can call herself any thing she pleases, and that's fine with me.

I agree..but I disagree







I agree that there is no checklist, and we may all fall somewhere within a certain spectrum, and of course we can CALL ourselves whatever we want. I can call myself beautiful, but that doesn't make it so









I disagree that one can be an AP parent if one is engaging in CIO, put-downs, spankings. It simply is not attachment parenting. Now I know there are those that will argue with me, but my question is why would someone need to call themselves an AP mama when they aren't one?


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## saritabeth (Jun 25, 2004)

why do you have to call yourself anything?


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## oyemicanto (Feb 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saritabeth*
why do you have to call yourself anything?









I don't think we do, I am who I am and don't need or want a label. It has, however, helped me tremendously to find like-minded mamas and great playmates for my kids to use the term "attachment" or "instinctual" parenting when meeting people.


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Perhaps they are trying to manifest themselves as AP?


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## ~*Cherimoya*~ (Jun 16, 2002)

Unfortunately people judge whether or not someone is "AP" based on what THEY do or don't do and using their own yardstick to measure. Luckily for us all, there are many choices within the AP label/lifestyle. In case you're wondering what constitutes an "AP":
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/t130300.asp
and
http://www.attachmentparenting.org/ideals.shtml
http://www.attachmentparenting.org/idealschindex.shtml

In AP circles, I've heard people criticize others' "AP-ness" based on things like whether or not they circ, whether or not they vax, whether or not they eat organically. You won't find any of those specific personal choices on those lists, though.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Llyra*
I don't think of AP as a checklist. I don't think of AP as an exclusive club, that only people who follow everything on the checklist can belong to. I also don't really spend much time judging other people's parenting against some kind of checklist.

I'm just going to ditto this.

It really bothers me when people judge other peoples "APness". I tell people we 'most relate" to the AP concept of parenting. But we dont follow all the "AP rules" we make our own. It just so happens I get along best and fit in best with alot of the AP moms, but I also get along fine with Mainstream moms. I dont think I have to identify with either.


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## Danesmama (Dec 15, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Llyra*
I don't think of AP as a checklist. I don't think of AP as an exclusive club, that only people who follow everything on the checklist can belong to. I also don't really spend much time judging other people's parenting against some kind of checklist. So no, it doesn't really bother me much what people call themselves. CIO bothers me, and so does yelling and put-downs and spanking, but a mama can call herself any thing she pleases, and that's fine with me.











I get very tired of mothers on this board judging the "AP-ness" of other people. We do vax, and yes, my sons are circumcised (not for religious reasons), but I still consider myself AP, although many on this board would not. I come to MDC to recieve inspiration and support for my daily parenting decisions, not hear about how someone is not AP-enough to fit in. Although the mama that was talking about CIO and AP in the same post is, well shall we say, a little misinformed, I think our job is to gently educate the people on that discussion board that CIO is not a respectful or responsive way to parent your children etc.

I think for AP to become more widespread we need to focus more on educating people, not judging them.


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Ditto to less judgement and more looking at the 8 ideals of AP as listed earlier. I hate it when people confuse NFL with AP, you can be both, or either, but NFL is not AP. They share some of the same ideals, such as cosleeping and breastfeeding, but as we all understand those are ideals, if you don't colseep because it doesn't work for your family, and you nighttime parent well, then you are still AP. Same with breastfeeding, etc. I mean I had a c-section because my baby was breech, not my choice certainly, but does that mean I am not AP or NFL, hardly. I vax, does that make me not NFL? There is a spectrum of things, and we all fall on that spectrum somewhere, some one end, some the middle and some the other end.


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## LovemyBoo (Oct 11, 2004)

Is this like being "not a real Christian"?

I have to admit, if I were on a mainstream board and saw AP in the siggy of a woman who ff by choice, crib slept, CIO, made _liberal_ use of baby buckets, swings, exersaucers, and baby seats, started parent-led potty training at 18 months, and getting her baby vaxed b/c it's "what you're supposed to do" and did no research at all, I'd have to







a little bit. I can't help it. I'm sure lots of Christians







at Pat Robertson, too.

But after the eyeroll I'd remind myself that this person probably doesn't know what AP really is, or maybe it's something they are aspiring to be. It doesn't matter at the end of the day. If someone is truly interested in AP as a parenting choice and not a passing fad they'll do the research and come to their own conclusions. The best I can do is model my "ap-ness" (which falls short of textbook itself) and answer any questions if approached.

My biggest ap model mama never said a word to me about her choices. I just noticed what she did and liked it, gradually implementing things as I felt ready to, and asking her for help when needed. I'm so glad she never said anything to me. I'd have felt inadequate and it likely would've impeded my ap progress.

So on one hand, I get the annoyance with what appears to be false advertising. On the other, the labeling seems to be one more thing that sets mothers against each other. Seriously, do men get their briefs in a bunch over this stuff? I generally keep my mouth shut and hope that I'm as good an example for others as my friend was to me.


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## Danesmama (Dec 15, 2001)

Quote:

Seriously, do men get their briefs in a bunch over this stuff?


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## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

ITA about NFL being intertwined with AP here at MDC (could I possibly get more acronyms in one sentance?) I am an AP parent who cosleeps, ebfs, slings, GDs, etc, etc. However, I have done the research and have chosen to vax, I lost the circ battle to my dh, we don't eat organic, and I don't cloth diaper. I don't feel that these thing at all affect my ability to be attached to my child. I'm not sure how putting sposies on my child's rear rather than cloth makes me less attached, and I have to laugh when those type things are included in the AP spectrum here. Since coming here many years ago, I have changes many of the ways I do things (though not how I parent -- I was AP from the start) and some of them I have changed back. Living is all about learning, trying, and taking what you like and using it in life. However, to attach all the aspects of NFL to AP just isn't right in my humble opinion, since they don't have a darned thing to do with attachment. Your (not personal) child may have less pesticide residue in his system because you buy organic, but that in no way makes you and your child more attached than me and my child.

However, cio, spanking, and all of those are AP deal breakers and I have to laugh when those parents call themselves AP.


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

That line of checklist thinking sort of weirds me out - it seems very conditional and not at all the way I try to approach my relationships with my kids, friends or family. I think that building attachment between people (not just moms and kids, but also between partners and friends) is based on mutual respect, support and responsiveness. It is something I try to maintain in my relationship with my children, my husband, and my parents.

I realize I am a tad inconsistent because I actually joined this board because the "mainstream" board I used to frequent was so full of posts on CIO or the benefits of spanking & showing the kids whose boss rather than building a relationship with our children.

Anyway, I probably not "AP" enough for many of the members of MDC, but in the end the only people I have to answer to are my children and partner. I once read that we should try to parent our children as if the adult versions of themselves are observing us...maybe we should all gauge our parenting by that standard rather than comparing ourselves to each other?
BJ
Barney & Ben


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

I think its unwise to label.

MY SIL was in a playgroup made up of moms with kids around 4 years of age.

There was one mom there who, it turned out had used CIO. She "believed" in it mostly because for her it involved three nights of less than 15 minutes of crying.

In any event, there was this big "movement" to kick her out, even though she did extended bf and was proboably the best GD mom I have ever met.

Eventually they decided not to let 45 minutes of her parenting decision be a reason to kick her out.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
I think its unwise to label.

ITA.


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## saritabeth (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
I think its unwise to label.

MY SIL was in a playgroup made up of moms with kids around 4 years of age.

There was one mom there who, it turned out had used CIO. She "believed" in it mostly because for her it involved three nights of less than 15 minutes of crying.

In any event, there was this big "movement" to kick her out, even though she did extended bf and was proboably the best GD mom I have ever met.

Eventually they decided not to let 45 minutes of her parenting decision be a reason to kick her out.


I probably don't even want to take this thread in this direction....but I have to ask...Do you all consider less than 15 minutes of crying to be CIO??

Again, I suppose it would depend if we are talking baby/infant or not, but I do find the whole CIO almost as much of an enigma as AP.

I was drawn here because I do parent in a way that is 'attached'. I am very tuned into my daughter and try to best meet her needs while also tending to the needs of the entire family. I get so worried sometimes when I see mama's posting who feel *terrible* about their mothering because they aren't "AP" enough or they are feeling burned out with the family bed or burned out on nursing their 3 year old. I think AP is about gently meeting your baby's needs intuitively but I believe that as parents we are the responsible grown ups who need to be sure that we are nurturing ourselves as well. There is too much maryterdom for burned out mamas in the name of "AP".


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## mamagirl (Nov 9, 2005)

Here's one:
Robotic Parenting (RP): Following checklists to make sure you fit into a parenting style.


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## saritabeth (Jun 25, 2004)

now that's hysterical!


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## Danesmama (Dec 15, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saritabeth*
I think AP is about gently meeting your baby's needs intuitively but I believe that as parents we are the responsible grown ups who need to be sure that we are nurturing ourselves as well. There is too much maryterdom for burned out mamas in the name of "AP".


This is so true. One of the things that stood out for me in Dr. Sears' Baby Book was him stressing that you had to look at what is working for both *Mom and* baby (not exactly sure where he said that, but it was something that I took away from the book). Being seriously burned out in the name of keeping up with some "AP" ideal is silly - the mama has to look at what is working for her family.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamagirl*
Robotic Parenting (RP): Following checklists to make sure you fit into a parenting style.


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

I don't think a general definition of, or following the beliefs behind AP is "labeling" or judging. We're not talking about being "good" parents or "bad" parents by anyone's definitions. To me, attachment parenting is embracing the philosphy of _attachment parenting_ To quote from API:

Quote:

Attachment Parenting is a philosophy based in the practice of nurturing parenting methods that create strong emotional bonds, also known as secure attachment, between the infant and parent(s) This style of parenting encourages responsiveness to the infant or child's emotional needs, and develops trust that their emotional needs will be met. As a result, this strong attachment helps the child develop secure, empathic, peaceful and enduring relationships.
In conjunction with the work of Dr. William and Martha Sears, and informed by current research, API promotes The Eight Ideals of Attachment Parenting. Recognizing that every family is unique, these ideals are guidelines to help parents understand their baby's needs to develop a secure attachment:

Preparation for Childbirth
Emotional Responsiveness
Breastfeed your Baby
Baby Wearing
Nighttime Parenting and Safe Sleeping Guidelines
Avoid frequent and prolonged separations from your baby
Positive Discipline
Maintain balance in your family life
It just is what it is. We're not talking about label police, or a checklist, I think, but the...well, silliness of identifying yourself with a philosophy you don't embrace. I think AP is about doing your best to practice these ideals and goals of parenting.

To me, it's like saying you're Buddhist, but not embracing the teachings of Buddha.


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## oyemicanto (Feb 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danesmama*
Although the mama that was talking about CIO and AP in the same post is, well shall we say, a little misinformed, I think our job is to gently educate the people on that discussion board that CIO is not a respectful or responsive way to parent your children etc.

I think for AP to become more widespread we need to focus more on educating people, not judging them.

I think the OP was asking why would this parent call themselves AP, in other words, to call yourself AP you obviously have heard of the term and possibly the ideals/values behind the "theory."Therefore, why would a parent who used CIO, spankings, et cetera need to call themselves AP.

Nobody talked about a checklist or who is more AP than who, nobody was judging.


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## oyemicanto (Feb 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueStateMama*

It just is what it is. We're not talking about label police, or a checklist, I think, but the...well, silliness of identifying yourself with a philosophy you don't embrace. I think AP is about doing your best to practice these ideals and goals of parenting.

To me, it's like saying you're Buddhist, but not embracing the teachings of Buddha.

















:


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## SneakyPie (Jan 13, 2002)

Is this discussion being started *again*? Seriously? "She's using the label I like for myself! But she doesn't live up to it! Why oh why?!?" AP ideals aren't being "watered down" just because we've succeeded in letting a lot of people know about them. And we know nothing about another's "need" to call herself AP.


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## DoubleOven (Jan 7, 2006)

:yawning:


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Even though I do most of the dreaded, holy "AP checklist," I would never in a million years describe myself as an AP parent.

Because of conversations like this. And because I believe we all do the best we can with the information we have, and I don't like to label myself as a parent.

Frankly, when I meet someone whose first move is to tell me that SHE's an AP PARENT (cue the heavenly harp sound effects), I have to stifle my instinct to rhapsodize about the joys of getting my kid to sleep in his own bed. Call me perverse.


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

My problem with this is the same problem I have with people calling themselves "vegetarian" when they eat animals that once were alive. It confuses everyone.

AP is different from NFL, but the two often overlap. I can confidently say we are AP, but we are still striving towards being NFL.

If someone is CIO, that's not AP by any stretch of the imagination.


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## jennlindsey (Nov 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saritabeth*
I think AP is about gently meeting your baby's needs intuitively but I believe that as parents we are the responsible grown ups who need to be sure that we are nurturing ourselves as well. There is too much maryterdom for burned out mamas in the name of "AP".

Thank you for saying this. From the bottom of my big ol' worryin' stressed-out trying-to-make-responsible-choices-while-still-maintaining-a-sense-of-self preggo heart, just ... thank you.


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## trinity6232000 (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saritabeth*
I was drawn here because I do parent in a way that is 'attached'. I am very tuned into my daughter and try to best meet her needs while also tending to the needs of the entire family. I get so worried sometimes when I see mama's posting who feel *terrible* about their mothering because they aren't "AP" enough or they are feeling burned out with the family bed or burned out on nursing their 3 year old. I think AP is about gently meeting your baby's needs intuitively but I believe that as parents we are the responsible grown ups who need to be sure that we are nurturing ourselves as well. There is too much maryterdom for burned out mamas in the name of "AP".









:









Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamagirl*
Here's one:
Robotic Parenting (RP): Following checklists to make sure you fit into a parenting style.









:


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Quote:

I have to admit, if I were on a mainstream board and saw AP in the siggy of a woman who ff by choice, crib slept, CIO, made liberal use of baby buckets, swings, exersaucers, and baby seats, started parent-led potty training at 18 months, and getting her baby vaxed b/c it's "what you're supposed to do" and did no research at all, I'd have to a little bit. I
can't help it. I'm sure lots of Christians at Pat Robertson, too.
Okay, let me see, parent led potty training has nothing to do with AP, even using buckets, swings, etc in moderation isn't against AP, vaxed has nothing to do with AP. Again, we are talking two different (but related and overlappinga) things. One can vax without questions and still be an AP parent, hell one can even FF by choice (adoption) and still be AP. You can even have your baby in a crib and still be AP, just depends on how you do it.


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## craftykitty (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SneakyPie*
Is this discussion being started *again*? Seriously? "She's using the label I like for myself! But she doesn't live up to it! Why oh why?!?" AP ideals aren't being "watered down" just because we've succeeded in letting a lot of people know about them. And we know nothing about another's "need" to call herself AP.


*Exactly*. The quoted "ideals" of AP came from API. Belonging to and subscribing to API does not = AP by itself. I practiced attachement parenting before I knew that that label existed. I _instinctively_ knew to do the things I did with my kids - just like my mom who did them almost 30 years ago because _she_ had the same instincts. I think it's rediculous to challenge the way others describe their parenting style because that's really what it is - a description. Not a club, not a clique, not a religion. "Attached Parent" is merely a description of the instincts that lead a parent to do what they feel is right for their family. How can you know what another parent's instincts are or aren't?


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

I consider myself AP although I do vax both of my sons and I used swings, walkers etc.

I suppose someone could have thought that I wans't AP with DS1 as I

A. didn't babywear (except when he was an infant with a snuggli) mainly beacause I never heard of pouches etc and din't have internet to go find one)

B. I FF him, he would not take my breast, I tried to pump and did so until my milk dried up. I had absolutely no BFing support, not from WIC, my Dr and I had never even heard of the LLL,

All the AP stuff no CIO, co sleeping etc, no circ, no one outside of my home would really even know about.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueStateMama*
It just is what it is. We're not talking about label police, or a checklist, I think, but the...well, silliness of identifying yourself with a philosophy you don't embrace. I think AP is about doing your best to practice these ideals and goals of parenting.

To me, it's like saying you're Buddhist, but not embracing the teachings of Buddha.









And who are we to claim that some mother from a board does or doesn't ACTUALLY embrace a philosophy she claims to? Might her parenting and her philosophy go a bit deeper than we might be able to discern from a BB?

Can't we give someone the benefit of the doubt and accept them where they are at? If they identify with the label of AP, I'm certainly not going to be the police and tell them they can't use it. Same Christians and same with Buddhist. I couldn't possibly judge (especially from a board) whether someone does or doesn't "embrace" a philosophy of any kind.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
I think its unwise to label.

MY SIL was in a playgroup made up of moms with kids around 4 years of age.

There was one mom there who, it turned out had used CIO. She "believed" in it mostly because for her it involved three nights of less than 15 minutes of crying.

In any event, there was this big "movement" to kick her out, even though she did extended bf and was proboably the best GD mom I have ever met.

Eventually they decided not to let 45 minutes of her parenting decision be a reason to kick her out.


I am not into CIO, but I think I would have told those people what to do with their playgroup.


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

Not sure why I was quoted above....









I did say earlier (upthread), though, that yes, if you're advocating CIO for sleep training and give a length description of how you listened to your baby scream for an hour, alone, and then repeated that for multiple nights to "train" your infant for the purpose of getting an "unbroken" night's sleep yourself - that I think you are off-base if you then self-identify as AP in that same post.

You know, I would think that I could say here on MDC that those actions pretty much are the antithesis of "attachment parenting." We're talking about a deliberate choice, a intent to let your baby scream alone, for the parent's convenience. I'm not saying, "Oh, that's bad parenting" or "Oh, what a bad mother"...but I sure as heck wouldn't call that "AP."


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jwebbal*
Okay, let me see, parent led potty training has nothing to do with AP, even using buckets, swings, etc in moderation isn't against AP, vaxed has nothing to do with AP. Again, we are talking two different (but related and overlappinga) things. One can vax without questions and still be an AP parent, hell one can even FF by choice (adoption) and still be AP. You can even have your baby in a crib and still be AP, just depends on how you do it.









: Thank you. I had one mama on another board tell me I was just lazy and lying about the fact that I could not BF my third and last baby. That EVERYONE can BF, and that I just did not care enough, blah blah blah. I cannot post here what I told HER. I BF my first 2, so I was not a novice without any instruction or education regarding BF. I encourage others to at least give it a try. I have been instrumental in at least 2 other ladies I know to try BF. I fully support BF moms and would protest if one was being discriminated against. It was rude, judgemental and just plain hurtful to be called names simply for something I could not help.

PS- It was a medical problem with me, and I am not going to get into it. Long story.


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## saritabeth (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennlindsey*
Thank you for saying this. From the bottom of my big ol' worryin' stressed-out trying-to-make-responsible-choices-while-still-maintaining-a-sense-of-self preggo heart, just ... thank you.


Oh no problem!! Im a fellow preggo seeking balance myself!


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
I think its unwise to label.

MY SIL was in a playgroup made up of moms with kids around 4 years of age.

There was one mom there who, it turned out had used CIO. She "believed" in it mostly because for her it involved three nights of less than 15 minutes of crying.

In any event, there was this big "movement" to kick her out, even though she did extended bf and was proboably the best GD mom I have ever met.

Eventually they decided not to let 45 minutes of her parenting decision be a reason to kick her out.









This stuff never ceases to amaze me. "Kick her out"?? A loving GD mom, extended BF, etc. etc. Honestly - sometimes it seems like some women never leave 8th grade? Its like they need to be "mean" to someone. Or they need to be a "clique" and in order to do that - you need to "exclude" someone. I feel so bad for that mama. I have witnessed far too much of that stuff since becoming a momma myself . . . .

you know, and in the interest of full disclosure I should probably say that I have been that momma. Not on the CIO . . . but I didn't BF my 1st DS. I remember being the outcast of playgroup and wondering why? It literally took me 2.5 years to figure out why? I just couldn't believe that women would completely chastise me because of a personal choice that has no effect whatsoever on them? Not to mention . . . no understanding of whatever reasons I did have for not BFing in the first place. Anyway . . . surprise surprise . . . when I had my trips and BF'd them . .. .suddenly . .. no issues?


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

Quote:

From the bottom of my big ol' worryin' stressed-out trying-to-make-responsible-choices-while-still-maintaining-a-sense-of-self preggo heart
...







The best advice I can give re all of this is to follow your instincts. Not to go off-topic, but so much of parenting (IMHO) is just doing what your mama heart tells you to do and what just plain "feels" right. I knew *nothing* about "AP" (and had never laid eyes on MDC







) and was surrounded my "mainstream" parents, but I ended up being pretty AP on sheer instinct alone. Your baby will let you know what it needs, and if you simply respond with your gut, you'll be great!!


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## KA29 (Jan 8, 2006)

I think it's important to remember too that the AP ideals that API advances and that Sears discusses are just that...._ideals_. I think you can be AP and still be striving for those ideals or even believe in them and not be able to follow through.

For example, myself, I wholeheartedly embrace all of the AP ideals. BUT, because of my thyroid issues and bad timing (my thyroid going wonky about the time my ds was having stomach surgery and couldn't nurse for a couple days) my 6 mos old ds is not exclusively breastfed. In fact, he gets very little breastmilk at all because I'm just not producing it despite meetings with LC and trying numerous things to build a supply. I'm sure that there are lots of people who would look at me feeding my son with a bottle at the playground (because I'm not using an SNS there!) and think I was definitely not AP. It wouldn't be true but whatever.

So I think to some extent there is slack to be cut with the 'label'. I don't mind the label really and in some ways I like it because I think having a label out there may make people look into and see "Wow, those are really good ideas. I should try that!"

I also though try not to be judge other's parenting (though I admit sometimes it's hard!) and just do what I do. And when someone asks me why we have made a choice we have made, I answer. And sometimes, that makes someone look into why I do X, Y or Z and maybe try it themselves.

Anyway, my rambling thoughts!


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Oh man. Sometimes people do parent to the checklist, and you would think that they would be great parents, but there's something a bit...off about it. Like they yank their toddler away from any other person she approaches. (Meaning adults who are long-term friends of her parents, even people they've invited over.) I mean, the AP principles worked for the _child_--she's open and friendly and secure for her age--but the mom can't stand it if she spends a second away from her?

I don't want to call myself AP to anyone who knows this mom, lest they think I condone this kind of behavior. I believe in the physical closeness of bed sharing and baby wearing and nursing to toddlerhood, but I'd rather call those behaviors mainstream than identify with some of this weird stuff.


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain optimism*
Oh man. Sometimes people do parent to the checklist, and you would think that they would be great parents, but there's something a bit...off about it. Like they yank their toddler away from any other person she approaches. (Meaning adults who are long-term friends of her parents, even people they've invited over.) I mean, the AP principles worked for the _child_--she's open and friendly and secure for her age--but the mom can't stand it if she spends a second away from her?










BTST. And I might be just as offended by those people calling themselves "AP" as the OP is with the so-called "non-AP'ers". That kind of behavior is not AP - in the exact same way. AP is meant to foster innate self confidence and independence - and when that occurs, it is not AP to encourage unnatural dependence?


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## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

*I'm sure that there are lots of people who would look at me feeding my son with a bottle at the playground (because I'm not using an SNS there!) and think I was definitely not AP. It wouldn't be true but whatever.*

Yeah, me too except I have to exclusively formula feed now because I have to take meds that aren't compatible and could hurt my daughter. I feel like a jackass buying formula and giving DD a bottle because I'm very pro-breastfeeding and encourage pregnant women I know to at least try it. I feel like I'm being hypocritical because I use formula, but I'm not using it by choice. It's especially bad when I'm around other natural minded moms because even though I know they know my circumstances I still feel like they're judging me.

I consider myself to be AP despite FF and working outside the home. I do co-sleep (even with the 5 year old most nights), don't vax, babywear, and spend a lot of time with them but that's not why I consider myself AP. I'm very much in tune with my children (usually) and they know they can come to me for anything without fear of being punished or rejected--that's why I'm AP.


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## Shiloh (Apr 15, 2005)

I got made to feel 'unwelcome' at a group once for pointing out that nonap moms should be not preached to but shown the benefits of ap, not put down...as in my experience there are some closet ap moms out there, people who claim their kid has their own nursery, pass the sippy cup that still nurse at home their 3 year old and ask their dh their kids do sleep in thier bed everynight









And that AP was not confined to a set of practices and how much you do them but how you parent in general, things happen, not every woman can do ap things 100%.

Quote:

Yeah, me too except I have to exclusively formula feed now because I have to take meds that aren't compatible and could hurt my daughter.
See but that's AP I think putting the kids needs first, and if you could buy breastmilk in a can or get a neighbour to come over and be wetnurse you would. Formula was not your first choice, and we can't always do what we feel is 'the best' for our kids.

Quote:

It's especially bad when I'm around other natural minded moms because even though I know they know my circumstances I still feel like they're judging me.
See I don't get that judgmental side to the overzealous ap'ers, if you value attachment and acceptance then putting down other women, making them feel ap is a club you MUST do certain things to be a member of is not postive, bonding, celebrating motherhood and women and supporting them.

Quote:

I consider myself to be AP despite FF and working outside the home.
I would too, as I don't think its a question in a utopian world if we could all choose most of us would be able to do more ap things more often but some of us have to work, some of us have to give formula for real reasons not the excuses you sometimes get







I think its how you approach parenting and I also think its not just a mama thing but a family thing. And a broader how you interact positively to form real connections with other people.

Quote:

I do co-sleep (even with the 5 year old most nights), don't vax, babywear, and spend a lot of time with them but that's not why I consider myself AP. I'm very much in tune with my children (usually) and they know they can come to me for anything without fear of being punished or rejected--that's why I'm AP.
Amen. That for me is AP.
We all do the best we can with what we can.


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## KayasMama04 (Feb 4, 2006)

I don't call myself anything im more in the middle then anything. I cloth diaper, we are trying to eat more organic, next baby I would at least like to keep in the same room with us dd just won't, but we do vax so no I really do not call myself ap.


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## KA29 (Jan 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2Sweeties1Angel*
Yeah, me too except I have to exclusively formula feed now because I have to take meds that aren't compatible and could hurt my daughter. I feel like a jackass buying formula and giving DD a bottle because I'm very pro-breastfeeding and encourage pregnant women I know to at least try it. I feel like I'm being hypocritical because I use formula, but I'm not using it by choice. It's especially bad when I'm around other natural minded moms because even though I know they know my circumstances I still feel like they're judging me.

I know what you mean. I actually don't know if my ds gets any breastmilk when I nurse him because I can't pump any out. So most if not all of his nutrition is formula. And wow, do I feel like a loser buying it and am so selfconscious about feeding it to him in public.







: I actually have passed on going to some Natural family support groups around here because I don't want to have to explain the situation to anyone new. Or have their reaction be negative even though I really have no choice.


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

I will say this again, because it obviously bears repeating. AP and vaxing or not vaxing have NOTHING to do with each other.


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## calynde (Feb 11, 2005)

I'm the original poster of this thread. Interesting discussion!

My point in posting wasn't to promote judging or labelling of other mothers, but was rather to take a "philosophical" look into why more and more women seem to feel compelled to see their parenting style as AP even when it clearly isn't...at least in terms of official definitions.

I wondered if it's because of increasing popularity of AP parenting...after all, it wasn't so long ago that this was pretty much unheard of. AP principles must be getting pretty mainstream if "mainstream-parenting" moms are trying to find ways to align themselves with what is inherently a pretty different style. Maybe it's a good sign? Just that they're exposed to the literature/ideas and then going with their respective choices...whatever they may be.

We already know how amazing all the MDC moms are....so we can move past any political correctness about labelling etc. Of course we don't judge our fellow mama sisters!!!







But that doesn't stop the term "attachment parenting" from existing, and being used. We are a culture of labellers...particularly on this board. Look at the signatures!!! We tag one label after another behind our names!









AP as a buzzword is pretty recent. And the mamas I know (from the beginning!) who had babies in slings and not letting them CIO and co-sleeping...were *thrilled* to have a label for what they were doing. They felt it was sort of a validation for what they were doing, and it made them feel that their instincts were normal. The AP "label" gave them something to hold onto and a way to find similar moms more easily. And now the label is a "dreaded" thing and as we see in this thread...something to be avoided. Seems like the pendulum is swinging pretty far in the other direction pretty fast, no?









Anyway, interesting topic!


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:

why more and more women seem to feel compelled to see their parenting style as AP even when it clearly isn't...at least in terms of official definitions.
What about their parenting isn't what you would consider AP? What do you think makes an AP parent? . Do you think that to be AP you must follow a strict code of guidelines?


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## calynde (Feb 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sharlla*
Do you think that to be AP you must follow a strict code of guidelines?

I never said anything about a strict code of guidelines, did I? But AP IS a description of a parenting style, and in order to be described or defined there surely must be some general guidelines..
(as listed by boongirl perhaps).
In response to boongirl's comments, and back to the original post...I never said mamas *here* on MDC didn't seem AP...I said that I knew mamas here (in the flesh!) who aren't what I would consider AP but seem to feel like they want the label anyway. My initial questioning is based on 2 women I know, one is a proud spanker ("he needs to be told who's boss!"), the other keeps hers penned up in one room all day so he won't mess up the house, both don't believe in responding to crying so as not to spoil them, one took a 2 week holiday and left her 7 month old with an aunt...so she could wean him cold turkey. Now please, I know that these women love their children and they are doing what they feel like they ought to be doing. This thread wasn't meant to suggest that they have no right to mother as they choose, or that I have no right to take notice one way or another. It's just simply that I don't see this as "AP" parenting, and I wondered why these women feel the need to identify with a label/movement that doesn't really fit them. I actually had the impression they didn't really know what it meant...(or maybe that I don't know) and that attachment parenting has just somehow become synonymous with parenting in general. I find it interesting, not negative. I wondered if others have experienced anything similar...

This was meant to be a general, philosophical-level thread. No judging going on here. Why is there suddenly such a defensive tone?


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## trinity6232000 (Dec 2, 2001)

I think I am seeing the OP's question clearer now. I don't think she
is trying to exclude or make a checklist for what makes an AP parent.

I think she is wondering if we have seen an upswing in people calling
themselves AP and maybe not knowing what the term means. But by
asking that question she is only wanting to discuss the popularity of
the term and not the actions of the parents.

I remember when a friend asked me a parenting question while pregnant.
This was 2 years ago. I started to talk about how I personally see my
parenting, and that I was really glad to find information on the internet
regarding AP parenting. That it helped me define my search when I
needed advise and it also helped me pick books that shared the same
philosophy with.

She asked what Attachment Parenting meant. I didn't have a clear
answer so we googled it. Now when I had my daughter I had never
heard the term AP. I was the first of my friends to have a child, I
was a single mom who wanted good advice and stumbled onto the
term. I was excited that AP described me. I felt like I belonged. I
needed that as a new mother, with no mother friends.

Now I have heard the term more and more. It excites me. Most of
my friends have asked me about breast-feeding for future knowledge.
Many have asked me about my co-sleeping. It excites me further.
Because many of these same people said I was a nut when I had my
daughter when I talked about my parenting. They are looking to have
babies in their future and are looking around for advice like I was.

So many I don't know any mothers who call them self AP yet "aren't
practicing AP" but I don't know what they do at home, and I try not
to judge others parenting at a small glance.
But I do see more and more people becoming knowledgeable of the
term. In more and more places that I wouldn't have expected to
hear the term 5 years ago. So it's gaining popularity I imagine. Which
in my book is a GREAT thing.

I say if somebody is attracted to something that is in the best interest
of their children, it doesn't matter how much they embody the term, as
long as they enjoy the journey while they grow. (did that make sense?)









So I think that OP was asking if we have noticed that AP is becoming
a buzz word.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calynde*
It's just simply that I don't see this as "AP" parenting, and I wondered why these women feel the need to identify with a label/movement that doesn't really fit them.

I would say you've answered your own question: you don't see what they do as AP. They do. It's rather simple. Each of us has our own perceptions, they don't always match each other's. How you interpret what attachment parenting (or anything else) means is not the same as what I interpret it to mean. The women you see as not being AP in any significant way may in fact see themselves as meeting enough of the AP "criteria", as they've interpreted it, to be "worthy" of the label.

I also think that in general mothers are so competitive with each other, and so in need of approval, that labeling becomes more important than it need be. We could remedy this by not labeling ourselves and each other, and not comparing ourselves to each other but instead working together for our own common good and the good of our children.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calynde*
I never said anything about a strict code of guidelines, did I?

I wasn't saying you did, I was asking you a quesiton. Anyway, like I said in one of the previous posts, it may have appeared to many that I was not practicing AP (with DS1) when I very much was. And the same is true for many others.


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## oyemicanto (Feb 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trinity6232000*
I think I am seeing the OP's question clearer now. I don't think she
is trying to exclude or make a checklist for what makes an AP parent.

I think she is wondering if we have seen an upswing in people calling
themselves AP and maybe not knowing what the term means. But by
asking that question she is only wanting to discuss the popularity of
the term and not the actions of the parents. ..

So I think that OP was asking if we have noticed that AP is becoming
a buzz word.

Exactly!


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

I think AP is a self determined label.
And if somebody thinks of themselves or their philosophy as AP, I can only wonder what they would be doing if they did not believe in AP.
SOmetimes there is a big gap between philosophy and practice because life gets in the way. We cannot judge anothers philosophy by their actions all of the time.
There are many many good AP mamas who have resorted to CIO when at the end of their rope. (some of them couldnt go through with it, some did but hate to admit it, some will tell you they did it but it didnt work)
I was at that same point once myself. And I would have done it if my twins hadnt started sleeping longer stretches on the very first night I vowed to let them CIO a bit.
If you dont knwo the whole story, how do you know how much the action is based in the philosophy or in the realities of life which sometimes dont jive with your philosophy?
I know AP mamas who spank and who wean their children at a year. But I dont know any moms mainstream moms who claim to be AP.
How am I to know their heart?


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## kayjayjay (Jul 15, 2003)

Quote:

AP as a buzzword is pretty recent. And the mamas I know (from the beginning!) who had babies in slings and not letting them CIO and co-sleeping...were *thrilled* to have a label for what they were doing.
This is how I see "Attachment Parenting" as a description of certain parenting choices. When my first DD was born we made some choices that were directly contrary to mainstream parenting advice and our "What to Expect" book. I was afraid to let people know that she was sleeping with us and that I was bf her on demand for fear that we would be told we were doing it wrong and that we were spoiling her. When I found out that there was a parenting style that approved of our choices I was encouraged, and I felt less alone.

I do think, as the op suggested, that the AP label is becoming more desirable as a sign that one is making responsive parenting choices. Quite a change from 10 years ago. Not to judge whether those that use the label deserve to, just noting that the term seems to be associated with good parenting.

Interesting to note how labels make people defensive.


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## Danesmama (Dec 15, 2001)

I also think that maybe some of these moms are terming themselves AP because it is a buzz word, and not because they truly know what AP is about. It could maybe open their eyes a bit if you suggested they read books by Dr. Sears or Alison Granju. Without being pushy you could say something like "I really loved The Baby Book by Dr. Sears, how about you?" and then offer to loan her a copy if she hasn't read it already. Who knows they could be doing a lot of AP things already, but no matter what some educational reading could never hurt.

It does really surprise me that any mom would say that she's AP to another mom IRL. I would never say that to anyone I know - although I do talk about sleeping with my children, breast feeding on demand and everyone knows I am very close to my children! Anyhow I'm


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

LOL, I'm the opposite!

My parenting style may fall under the 'AP' label, but if anyone tries to label me anything I'll bop them one.

xxx Wannabe, proud non-AP mother


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Is Attachment Parenting a buzzword or a new fad?
Is it becoming more popular?
I had no idea that most people had even heard of AP.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

AP to me is not so much about a checklist. However, we had a LLL meeting this last week and this one lady was about to drive me nuts talking about how she was so crunchy and all the things she did, but has talked many times about doing the opposite- CIO, crib sleeping etc. Why lie about it? I think whatever parenting decisions one makes they should at least be confident in them (even if I personally don't agree with them) it seems that for some it is just the in thing to follow, even if they don't actually ap at all.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *johub*
Is Attachment Parenting a buzzword or a new fad?
Is it becoming more popular?
I had no idea that most people had even heard of AP.

I never heard of "AP" until after DS2 was born, when I found out what it was, I knew that was my parenting style. And yeah, I like that I have that label now.


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

I understand where the OP is coming from. I had my first experience with this not to long ago. After I had listened to a woman threaten her child with a spanking, belittle her in front of me, allow her to bawl her head off during a time out for asking a question, demand obedience (she used the word obey) in the form of a "yes, mommy" and generally be disrespectful of her child, she turned to me as said that being an AP parent was hard.

It surprised me. I will admit.

I think there is some confusion about the term, what it means, what it entails, how being attached and responsive to your child usually means not hitting them, or disregarding their feelings. I do think that it has become a buzz word - a way to embrace a popular parenting philosophy which is touted as being good for the child.

I have also met moms who said they exclusively breastfeed - when in fact that last for the first two weeks of life, and then they began supplementing with formula because their doc told them too. Again, and adoption of the term that embraces the idea, though not the actual practice in order to be seen as doing what is best for the child.

I think that the need to do what is right, or perceived as right by society at large, for your child will drive you to label yourself as something you may not entirely embrace and understand so as to fit in. Especially with moms, who are constantly barraged with new studies and new info and























Labels aren't inherently bad - they are a way of categorizing information. All humans do it. It is the way we figure out where we stand in the world.

Discriminating due to a label is bad.

I find that the same sort of adoption of what is "cool" happens with "popular" religions. Think of all the celebrities who are into Kabbalah, or Buddhism....and all the people who then do something to label themselves as such, even without knowing what the heck they are doing.

People hear a term, hear some brief descriptor that may or may not be correct, decide they like the sound of it and label themselves as such. Not always correctly, not always respectfully or wisely.

Can the mama label herself that? Sure. Does it make me







? Yep. Makes me scratch my head when someone says they are converting to Judaism, and yet have never met with a Rabbi too.







Is it a problem? Not really. The only real problem I see is if the person labeling themselves erroneously begins to teach others about this fabulous new parenting philosophy (or whatever) that is based on doing whatever you want really. Then it becomes an issue I think. I mean - AP has ideals for a reason. You can embrace the ideals, and do what works for you and your baby, even without doing a dreaded "checklist" of parenting. We all have ideals we wish to live up to - that isn't a bad thing. We all also stress out when we don't live up to them on occasion.


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danesmama*

I get very tired of mothers on this board judging the "AP-ness" of other people. We do vax, and yes, my sons are circumcised (not for religious reasons), but I still consider myself AP, although many on this board would not.

How does elective circumcision fit in with Attachment Parenting?


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Galatea*
How does elective circumcision fit in with Attachment Parenting?

I think it has more to do with Natural Family Living which is what Mothering.com is about. I think of NFL as larger and all encompassing. I think AP is a component of NFL.


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ellien C*
I think it has more to do with Natural Family Living which is what Mothering.com is about. I think of NFL as larger and all encompassing. I think AP is a component of NFL.

Well... if being AP means that you do what is right for the child and not what is easiest for the parent, then circumcision doesn't fit in that. It is wrong for the child, and may assuage some feelings the parent has. Doesn't sound very AP.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I think it has way more to do with AP than NFL. I consider it a parenting decision.


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## Bruden (Jan 24, 2006)

Having just moved back to the US after having my two children in Sweden, I'm so surprised by conversations like this. Why compare? Why the need to one up each other or dismiss another person's parenting/philosophy? Of course I'm going to be drawn to people with like minded views but how does it affect my life if some person I've never met wants to call herself whatever.

You don't hear people in other countries talk about AP, CIO, or any other child related acronyms. What happened to people being tolerant? I would hate for someone to compare me to someone else. I do what I think it right based on our lifestyle and children. I suppose it never occurred to me to advertise that I had a home birth or didn't circumcised my son, etc. I don't see the point. If you like me, you like me. End of story.

* hope my tone doesn't sound defensive or aggressive, I'm mostly perplexed.


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## dido1 (Aug 12, 2004)

Just read through these post...interesting conversation.

My hot button is being labelled non-ap because we electively circ'd. I am conflicted about that decision and will answer to my son for it eventually if it becomes an issue for him. Everyone else who feels up for judging me on that topic can take a running leap. Sorry if you think that makes me non-AP but since I am extended bfing, co-sleep, babywear, cloth diapered for a long time, gd, etc., I don't really fit into the mainsteam parenting crowd either.

Labelling is silly really, because all it does is make those of us who do not strictly adhere to one set of parenting rules or the other feel alone and unsupported. I almost stopped posting here because my son is circed and I work full time, but I find more inspiration and likemindedness here than on any other parenting board so I continue to come here for parenting inspiration and thought provoking debates like this one


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## Danesmama (Dec 15, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa*
I think it has way more to do with AP than NFL. I consider it a parenting decision

the_lissa was referring to the decision to electively circ.

Galetea quoted me when asking how elective circ fits in with attachment parenting. Again I have to stress how steamed this makes me that anyone would presume to judge which criteria I use to make my parenting decisions and then imply that by making these decisions that I do not fit in with AP ideals. I find this sort of judgemental attitude offensive.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dido1*
Labelling is silly really, because all it does is make those of us who do not strictly adhere to one set of parenting rules or the other feel alone and unsupported.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bruden*
Having just moved back to the US after having my two children in Sweden, I'm so surprised by conversations like this. Why compare? Why the need to one up each other or dismiss another person's parenting/philosophy? Of course I'm going to be drawn to people with like minded views but how does it affect my life if some person I've never met wants to call herself whatever.











My thoughts exactly to Bruden and Dido1!


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dido1*

My hot button is being labelled non-ap because we electively circ'd. I am conflicted about that decision and will answer to my son for it eventually if it becomes an issue for him. Everyone else who feels up for judging me on that topic can take a running leap. Sorry if you think that makes me non-AP but since I am extended bfing, co-sleep, babywear, cloth diapered for a long time, gd, etc., I don't really fit into the mainsteam parenting crowd either.

Labelling is silly really, because all it does is make those of us who do not strictly adhere to one set of parenting rules or the other feel alone and unsupported. I almost stopped posting here because my son is circed and I work full time, but I find more inspiration and likemindedness here than on any other parenting board so I continue to come here for parenting inspiration and thought provoking debates like this one 


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danesmama*
Galetea quoted me when asking how elective circ fits in with attachment parenting. Again I have to stress how steamed this makes me that anyone would presume to judge which criteria I use to make my parenting decisions and then imply that by making these decisions that I do not fit in with AP ideals. I find this sort of judgemental attitude offensive.

I find elective circ offensive. You are putting your thoughts and needs over the child's. Should we accept someone who chose to formula feed b/c she couldn't be bothered to breastfeed, and when she posts, say nothing b/c it might be judgmental? It is one thing to circ out of ignorance and then regret it, but to suggest that elective circ is an acceptable choice is the same as saying choosing to formula feed is an acceptable choice, and that is not okay here at MDC.


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Quote:

Well... if being AP means that you do what is right for the child and not what is easiest for the parent, then circumcision doesn't fit in that. It is wrong for the child, and may assuage some feelings the parent has. Doesn't sound very AP.
As much as I don't like circumcision (which is a WHOLE lot), I find the above to not be the definition of AP. AP isn't always doing what is right for the child, what the hell is right anyway? I think you are confusing NFL with AP, NFL may be against elective circumcision, but AP doesn't have a word to say on the subject. Look at the various sites, Dr. Sears, API, and so forth. The two things are separate. There are things we do which we find are best for our babies, breastfeeding, cosleeping (and again I will say one doesn't have to cosleep to be AP, there are other ways), babywearing (again, not everyone can do this, and they are still AP), etc, etc. Galatea, if you pay attention the woman said she was conflicted about that decision, and many others have made that decision and then come here and found out they were uninformed. Let's not sit here and play judge and jury to every mom that comes along and decide whether she is AP enough to be here, I think that kind of attitude just pushes people away, and if we really care about children we will welcome them and use gentle ways to educate them to our way of thinking about stuff like this.


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## dido1 (Aug 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Galatea*
I find elective circ offensive. You are putting your thoughts and needs over the child's. Should we accept someone who chose to formula feed b/c she couldn't be bothered to breastfeed, and when she posts, say nothing b/c it might be judgmental? It is one thing to circ out of ignorance and then regret it, but to suggest that elective circ is an acceptable choice is the same as saying choosing to formula feed is an acceptable choice, and that is not okay here at MDC.

I totally understand and appreciate that elective circ is not supported by MDC, however, I don't feel that it is appropriate to label someone "not AP" because they made that choice in the past. People like myself who see this board as a place to learn and gathering parenting ideas are often driven away because they are made to feel "unworthy" for outing themselves as parents who chose to circ, formula feed, etc in the past. I think that unless someone is coming on here blatantly saying "Do this, it's the way" about topics that are not supported by MDC, they shouldn't be made to feel as though they are lesser "AP" parents. Instead of judging, blaming and naming, why not educate, explain your perspective and share your experiences and feeling respectfully instead of labelling? That was the point I was trying to make.


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## MilkOnDemand (Jan 7, 2005)

So, do you get some sort of award for being the most AP parent around?

I don't see how elective circ could possibly fall into a definition of AP parenting - a very natural parenting technique. If you had your son done, does it make you a bad parent? I'm not here to judge, as I had my first DS circ'ed due to ignorance and left my second intact due to education. Does educated elective circ fall into AP - I don't think so at all.


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Again, I think the two concepts are being confused, please, do everyone a favor and go read the API site, the only mention of circumcision is that its a topic to be avoided at API meetings. NFL is definitely about not circing. But AP is about nurturing, and even though I don't like circumcision, I do think it can be done and still be considered AP. I am thinking of all my jewish friends who did circ (and I have some who didn't fyi). It's like saying you have to eat organic and natural to be AP, or cloth diaper, which is not true. It's not really about natural, its about bonding, breastfeeding, babywearing, etc. Yes, those are natural things, but that doesn't mean all things have to be natural.


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## MilkOnDemand (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jwebbal*
Again, I think the two concepts are being confused, please, do everyone a favor and go read the API site, the only mention of circumcision is that its a topic to be avoided at API meetings.

Okay, so it is a topic to be avoided.

From the API website

Quote:

This style of parenting encourages responsiveness to the infant or child's emotional needs, and develops trust that their emotional needs will be met. As a result, this strong attachment helps the child develop secure, empathic, peaceful, and enduring relationships.
Circumcision from the get go cannot be responsive to a child's needs. It would in fact be grounds for DIStrust by the new baby for the parent who is definately not helping them be secure or peaceful.


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Oh, give me a break. Stop arguing with someone who is against circumcision and take it to the no circ part of MDC. We are talking the definition of AP, which again, I said, its not anywhere in the AP ideals. Again, as much as I don't like circumcision it is done by very AP parents, you cannot say they aren't just because they circed. The topic is to be avoided at AP meetings because it has nothing to do with AP ideals. The API people are about furthering AP ideals, not going off on circumcision (which again, I DO all the time, just not in this thread at this time). Stop trying to limit who qualifies as AP, and just be a role model for the AP ideals. If you feel strongly about Circumcision then fine, try to convert those who are in the decision making process, don't go harping on some person who circed and now regrets/is in conflict about it. I don't like circumcision because I do feel it invades the child's decision in the whole thing, but to say that a mom who circed is not AP goes WAY too far for me, and many others.


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## Mountaingirl3 (May 21, 2005)

JoAnn,
Thanks for the distinction between AP and NFL. Believe it or not, I'd never thought about that, and it's helpful to me! We are huge fans of the whole AP list, and very grateful to the internet/Dr. Sears for molding our parenting thoughts during my first pregnancy. However, I'm only now discovering NFL suggestions.

I hope more people are becoming exposed to AP ideas. Even if a parent only embraces one aspect of AP, that would be better for their child than none! As for MDC, I'm glad there's variety here. It's no fun and no challenge to preach to the choir all day







.

It's interesting what combinations families can come up with from the APNFL alphabet soup







.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

I personally don't care if someone says they are AP but their parenting practices aren't what I'D call AP -- unless they are trying to crash a "safe place." Such as MDC (someone promoting CIO or FF by choice, for example). The only time something like that has happened in real life was when I created an AP playgroup for moms of young kids. Several of these moms needed support for nighttime parenting, and the last thing they wanted was to hear someone say how great CIO worked for them. Someone wanted to join who wanted to tout the advantages of CIO (at 7 months, because her daughter was waking every 2-3 hours to breastfeed...which is totally normal!!!). When I politely told her that mamas were joining this group to AVOID CIO advocacy, she told me that AP was not a checklist and that "CIO can be a healthy part of attachment parenting."

Now, AP is and is not a checklist. I believe that there are a few major issues that are indeed either AP or not AP. CIO is one of them. So in that circumstance, it bothered me very much that she tells everyone that she is AP, but wholeheartedly believes in CIO. This person did not end up joining the group (and the other mothers thanked me for being on the "front lines" of the issue).


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

PS -- I consider myself STRIVING to be AP. I breastfeed, sling (when the baby wants to be slung), cosleep, etc. -- but I am really bad at being GD. But I am trying though. I yell, lose my patience all the time, have shamed, etc. But I am trying to be GD, and in no way would advocate such awful actions. So there are probably many AP moms who fall short of the ideal, but the difference is they are TRYING for the ideal, and not advocating the opposite.


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## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)

I just wanted to weigh in on the circumcision issue, as it relates to natural family living/attachment parenting.

Obviously, there's nothing 'natural' about restraining a newborn and forcibly tearing his perfectly normal and healthy foreskin from his glans before it's slit, clamped, crushed, and excised. Circumcision is invasive; it's cosmetic surgery performed upon the genitals of a non-consenting minor.

Regarding attachment parenting, to me that means being responsive to my child's needs in a gentle, loving, respectful way. It means breastfeeding, babywearing, not letting him cio. It means more human connection, bonding, skin-to-skin contact, touch, and snuggling.

No medical organization in the world recommends routine infant circumcision. It's painful, unnecessary, and traumatic. It has the potential to interfere with bonding and breastfeeding. It *reduces* an infant's genitals, removing what would become 15 square inches of errogenous tissue, containing 3-4 feet of blood vessels, 240 feet of nerves, and 10,000-20,000 specialized nerve endings. The number one reason it's done? Like father, like son. And, misguided fears about locker-room teasing. (Nationwide, as of 2003, 55% percent of American boys left the hospital intact.)

A really facinating Dutch documentary anyone who's interested can watch online for free is, "Mother, why was I circumcised?" Some of it is in English, some has subtitles...but it's free, and about 30 minutes long.

http://asp.noterik.com/video/michael/CIRCUMCISION.mov

Another excellent resource that explains the functions of the foreskin better than any other website/presentation I've ever seen:

"The Prepuce"

(WMP, Streaming):

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...C/prepuce.html

(WMP, Download-use "save link as"):

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...TSC_256k_D.wmv

Anyway, just my thoughts (sprinkled with a few, education links). For myself, my son's genital integrity was more important than superficial concerns about matching dad or cultural conformity. He was born healthy, normal, and perfect...he didn't need any alterations, so we left him alone and loved him just as he was.

Jen

PS. If anyone's interested in learning/discussing more, you're welcome to join us in the Case Against Circumcision forum.


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## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jwebbal*
Oh, give me a break. Stop arguing with someone who is against circumcision and take it to the no circ part of MDC. We are talking the definition of AP, which again, I said, its not anywhere in the AP ideals. Again, as much as I don't like circumcision it is done by very AP parents, you cannot say they aren't just because they circed. The topic is to be avoided at AP meetings because it has nothing to do with AP ideals. The API people are about furthering AP ideals, not going off on circumcision (which again, I DO all the time, just not in this thread at this time). Stop trying to limit who qualifies as AP, and just be a role model for the AP ideals. If you feel strongly about Circumcision then fine, try to convert those who are in the decision making process, don't go harping on some person who circed and now regrets/is in conflict about it. I don't like circumcision because I do feel it invades the child's decision in the whole thing, but to say that a mom who circed is not AP goes WAY too far for me, and many others.

I just wanted to clarify that none of us who oppose circumcision are out to make people feel bad, we're out to encourage education and informed consent, and often also to advocate for legal reform that would afford boys the same legal protection (from genital cutting) that American girls enjoy.

For those who are conflicted or are regretful of their decision, reading the sticky on the Case Against Circumcision forum, entitled "If you regret circumcising your son(s), please post here." and considering sharing your own story might be healing.

All we can do is the best we can do with the information we have available to us at the time. When you know better, you do better.










Jen


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## Lula's Mom (Oct 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jwebbal*
Oh, give me a break. Stop arguing with someone who is against circumcision and take it to the no circ part of MDC.









All of MDC is the no-circ part, since this it is "THE Natural Family Living community"!

We had a thread about whether you can be AP and circ some time last year. I think the consensus of it was that you can certainly be AP now and have chosen elective circumcision, in the past, before you were educated on the subject. No one here judges mothers who regret that decision- The Case Against Circumcision forum welcomes them with open arms. There is a stickied thread just for them. They are some of our best intactivists! But infant circumcision is a violent act against a child who cannot help himself, and I don't see how that fits with AP at all. If it's not in the API definition, OK, whatever. It still interrupts bonding and trust between the child and his parents, and often affects breastfeeding. Not NFL or AP.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

I don't have an exact definition of what it means to be considered AP. To me, it means always (within my human abilities







) giving my son the very best I can offer, and treating him like he is an intelligent, worth-while human being from the very beginning of his life. I've known so many people who treat their child as less than human throughout their childhood, then wonder why their child has no respect for them as an older child or adult.

Regarding AP and circumcision, I think that if a parent had their child circumcised because they honestly thought it was in the child's best interest, or if they simply didn't know it was something that needed to be researched, the spouse absolutely would not budge on the issue, or a similar reason, then the parents can truly be considered AP.

On the other hand, if a parent choses to have their child circumcised after learning about the functions of the foreskin, how circumcisions are performed, and that the vast majority are done without adequate pain relief (and even those with pain relief still feel intense pain--just ask anyone who has had injections of topical anesthesia), there is no medical justification, but complications are very common--if a parent knows all this, and still decides to circumcise, *I* personally do not consider them AP.

http://emj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/conte...tract/22/3/188

~Nay


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## ~Kira~ (Sep 16, 2004)

All I have to say on Attachment Parenting as it relates to Genital Mutilation is that:

AP is about responding to our child's *needs*

*and*

NO baby *needs* to have a healthy, normal, functional part of their body ripped up, crushed and amputated against their will with no medical recommendation for doing so.

I also want to extend a welcome for anyone who wants to share their story on the Parents Who Regret Circumcising thread in the Case Against Circumcision folder. 'When we know better, we do better'









- Kira


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lula's Mom*







All of MDC is the no-circ part, since this it is "THE Natural Family Living community"!

We had a thread about whether you can be AP and circ some time last year. I think the consensus of it was that you can certainly be AP now and have chosen elective circumcision, in the past, before you were educated on the subject. No one here judges mothers who regret that decision- The Case Against Circumcision forum welcomes them with open arms. There is a stickied thread just for them. They are some of our best intactivists! But infant circumcision is a violent act against a child who cannot help himself, and I don't see how that fits with AP at all. If it's not in the API definition, OK, whatever. It still interrupts bonding and trust between the child and his parents, and often affects breastfeeding. Not NFL or AP.









:

ITA with pps about someone circing without knowing better or thinking that it was best for their child (such as Jewish mothers who really do believe it's best for their children to be circ'd... I don't agree with them, but I don't judge them for doing what they believe is best. I do what I think is best for my children







) still being considered AP or NFL.

However, if someone has all the info, has NO religious reason to cloud the issue (I don't know what I would do if I truly believed G-d had told me to circ my son... I know that the New Testament tells ME not to, but that's a whole 'nother topic), and does it (as a friend just told me) "to make it look PRETTY" or like daddy; then NO that person is not AP. Taking your child's trust and a fully functional, necessary part of his body without his consent is not AP or NFL.

totally come down to Case Against Circ and learn more









love and peace.


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## kayjayjay (Jul 15, 2003)

Just wanted to say there's a difference between advocating circ and just avoiding the issue. If someone has circed in the past they can still ap their children. OTOH, something like circ simply doesn't fit into an ap philosophy.

I know there are a lot of mamas at mdc that regret their circ decision, and I hope that anyone on this thread in the same position knows that they are welcome.

Quote:

All of this talk about circ on this thread and how that could never be AP just eloquently proves my point that moms on MDC need to stop being so judgemental of other mothers
I think you're missing the point. One (or more) poor decisions don't disqualify one to be ap...but being ap means in part being able to critically examine these mainstream parenting choices. I don't think refusing to acknowledge circ as an acceptable choice is being judgemental. I would call it having principles.

On a similar note, I have to admit that I have spanked my children in the past. From an ap standpoint, however, I can't rationalize hitting my children and so I don't do it anymore. I try, incidentally, to remember that they are people in their own right and that I'm not necessarily trying to be the one in charge, but to work with them so that we can all get what we need.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

People can talk all they want about how APing is or isn't exclusive.

But frankly, until people stop touting their exclusive cloth diapering/non-vaxing or whatever fill-in-the-blank status with little smiley faces in their sigs, this site won't really feel entirely inclusive.

Just my opinion, but they are kind of a turn off. It comes off like posters are putting out their "credentials" for all to see.

Of course, I don't put bumper stickers on my car, either, so maybe it's just me.


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat*
People can talk all they want about how APing is or isn't exclusive.

But frankly, until people stop touting their exclusive cloth diapering/non-vaxing or whatever fill-in-the-blank status with little smiley faces in their sigs, this site won't really feel entirely inclusive.

Just my opinion, but they are kind of a turn off. It comes off like posters are putting out their "credentials" for all to see.

Of course, I don't put bumper stickers on my car, either, so maybe it's just me.

I used to feel this way, too, but what you have to realize is that in their real lives, mamas often get a ton of crap for their parenting style and have to hide it. So when they come here, they are pleased and relieved to be praised for what they normally have to hide. This site is not meant to be entirely inclusive, anyway. We are self-selective. Anything you feel about them is on you.


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

I haven't read the rest of the threads, I'll do that after I post. I define AP as listening to your baby's needs, not as a set of guidelines. If one person's baby needs to sleep alone to get a good night's rest and the mom insists on putting them in the bed with her, even though neither get any sleep, then she is not being AP in my opinion. She isn't listening to her baby's needs..she is just trying to fit a mold.


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## katallen (Jan 4, 2005)

I am not totally up on the AP history, but I have always thought of AP as what Dr. Sear's defined it as and as GD as what is more commonly advocated by the "Mothering" magazine and website. I think there are definitely similarities, but AP as Dr. Sear's defines it is open to a lot of different parenting styles including spanking and yelling. Overall though it seems to be a belief that by connecting with your child from day one you will be more able to tailor your parenting style and life style to meet your child's needs. I don't think that any style of parenting can be a "do this and don't do that or you're not one of us" type of thing because all children really are very different. One size does not fit all.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

Of course, I don't put bumper stickers on my car, either, so maybe it's just me.
I love bumper stickers. I had a ton on my car that died so now I'm working on the back of my minivan. Should I add some smilies?


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin*
I haven't read the rest of the threads, I'll do that after I post. I define AP as listening to your baby's needs, not as a set of guidelines. If one person's baby needs to sleep alone to get a good night's rest and the mom insists on putting them in the bed with her, even though neither get any sleep, then she is not being AP in my opinion. She isn't listening to her baby's needs..she is just trying to fit a mold.









:

A great example of an "AP" virtue - applied in a manner that is NOT AP. I







you. This is a point that can get lost here some time while everyone is quite eager to display their laundry list of APness . . . . .


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katallen*
I am not totally up on the AP history, but I have always thought of AP as what Dr. Sear's defined it as and as GD as what is more commonly advocated by the "Mothering" magazine and website.

Hi Katallen -

I don't understand your comment re GD as GD on this website covers a broad broad spectrum from NC to Positive Discipline (literature from both spectrums is included on the GD suggested reading list posted on the board) - and there is often controversy and hurt feelings on those boards as the posters approaches as to what is "GD" differ so very widely.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
AP to me is not so much about a checklist. However, we had a LLL meeting this last week and this one lady was about to drive me nuts talking about how she was so crunchy and all the things she did, but has talked many times about doing the opposite- CIO, crib sleeping etc. Why lie about it? I think whatever parenting decisions one makes they should at least be confident in them (even if I personally don't agree with them) it seems that for some it is just the in thing to follow, even if they don't actually ap at all.


Im actually not surprised. I have known people who are crunchy but not AP.


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## Tinas3muskateers (May 19, 2004)

I am a guilty party. 2 Boys neither intact. I didnt know better with my first and new better with my second and shamfully made a choice for him that wasnt mine to make. My husband insisted he be circed. I felt trapped. I felt as if this is his son too should he not have a say, but really he doesnt. Looking back 2 years ago, I knew better and didnt do better. He has no one to blame but me for not protecting him. I however feel I tried to be as attached as I can be to him and his brother and sister. I do not let him CIO even now and he is 2, I did nurse him till age 2, we delayed solids till a year, we selectivly vax, we slung him (he wouldnt have it now lol) we CD'ed on and off for most of his life, we co-sleep with him, we try to practice PD/GP but its hard, I come from a family of yellers, so I really work on not yelling but it happens. My guilt for not protecting those boys will always be there. If my insurance hadnt paid for it, it wouldnt have been done. I wish they would just do away with it.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Attachment Parenting is first and foremost about attachment and bonding. Period. There are many things that are contrary to attachment parenting such as causing a baby pain or emotional distress. There are other things that one might think are contrary to AP ideals that good AP parents practice because that's what works best for their family, or those are the circumstances they are faced with and must adjust the standards.

On paper I'm a miserable AP parent. I felt like a failure for years because some of the ideals of AP were not attainable to me. I have even made a lot of mistakes in the hazes of stress, sleep deprivatio, and PPD. But in my heart and in practice I'm very attached to my kids and they to me, and therefore I'm an AP mother.

OTOH just because a mother practices some or most of the AP goals (breastfeeding, family bed, etc) does not make them AP. I know of a few moms like this who look great on paper but behind the scenes things are not so great and the parents are not trying to improve themselves to get beyond those practices.

I think if a parent is trying to improve their parenting and they want to subscribe to the AP name as an inspiration to improve themselves and thier family life, then great! Even if they are not 100% perfect, it's up to us to encourage them and educate them, not criticize them and drag them down. They need us. Their kids need us.


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## Bearsmama (Aug 10, 2002)

Hi,
Was part of the OP's starting statement really about how AP has gotten a bit "trendy"? Perhaps I'm reading into this here. But just like all things that have gotten trendy, or have become "buzzwords", there is a core of truth below the talk.

I agree with what's been said here about labeling--it's a sticky thing. Once you label yourself one way, OR start labeling or harshly judging others, it's hard then to hold yourself beyond reproach. Does that make any sense?


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USAmma*
Attachment Parenting is first and foremost about attachment and bonding. Period. There are many things that are contrary to attachment parenting such as causing a baby pain or emotional distress. There are other things that one might think are contrary to AP ideals that good AP parents practice because that's what works best for their family, or those are the circumstances they are faced with and must adjust the standards.

On paper I'm a miserable AP parent. I felt like a failure for years because some of the ideals of AP were not attainable to me. I have even made a lot of mistakes in the hazes of stress, sleep deprivatio, and PPD. But in my heart and in practice I'm very attached to my kids and they to me, and therefore I'm an AP mother.

OTOH just because a mother practices some or most of the AP goals (breastfeeding, family bed, etc) does not make them AP. I know of a few moms like this who look great on paper but behind the scenes things are not so great and the parents are not trying to improve themselves to get beyond those practices.

I think if a parent is trying to improve their parenting and they want to subscribe to the AP name as an inspiration to improve themselves and thier family life, then great! Even if they are not 100% perfect, it's up to us to encourage them and educate them, not criticize them and drag them down. They need us. Their kids need us.











This actually brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for saying this so eloquently.


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## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

When you think about it, who wouldn't want to embrace the term Attachment Parenting. No one wants to go around with the title of "NonAttached Parent." We all want to feel that we are attached to our children whether we practice attachment parenting or not. Why would everyone NOT want to embrace that term. However, attachment certainly means different things to different people.

What I find so amusing is that so many people seem to find it their job to define whether I practice AP. My three boys are circ'ed (I wouldn't have done it, but dh was adament due to the experience and opinions of two friends who are not circ'ed and hated the fact that they weren't) and I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over the fact that many of you here think that I am not not an AP parent because of it. I'm much less opinionated than I was after my first was born. I guess I have mellowed in my old age and realize that maybe there isn't one right way to do things.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

This has been a fascinating thread, especially as I consider myself a mainstream mom who happens to practice some AP behaviors and believes in the AP philosophy.

I approach AP like I approach most things - pragmatically. I think the thing I like best about AP is that it does actually make life easier - for example, I believe:

* Raising happy, healthy kids is so much easier when you have close relationships with them and can let them be kids. Being respondive to their needs (and knowing the difference between needs and desire) avoids a lot of problems.

* breastfeeding is so much easier and cheaper than ff, as well as the protective qualities it offers kids and moms healthwise.

* co-sleeping is how I survive the newborn, eat every two hours, years. For us, CIO just doesn't work, is painful for everyone, and is totally unnecessary if you can be responsive to the kids' needs. Sleep is great - everyone should feel secure about sleep!

* baby wearing is a must for a kid who sleeps best next to mommy AND when dealing with both a newborn and a toddler.

* natural vaginal delivery is best, safest, cheapest, etc for the vast majority of births. I actually was able to have a natural vaginal delivery (in a hospital) for my second who was breech - despite EVERYONE telling me I had to have a c-section.

etc. etc.

However, I don't do a lot of the NFL stuff - I pick and choose what organic foods I feed my family (mainly due to cost), we use disposables, I am actually extremely pro-vaccination (I work in international development and have way too much information in my head about kids dying of measles, etc. ), and I circ'd both boys.

If it had been up to me, I wouldn't have circ'd them, but my husband absolutely insisted because he had to have a circumcision at age 8 for medical reasons - his reasoning was that it was much better to be circ'd at birth than at a later age. My thought was that this is a topic I have NO personal experience with, but my husband does - it was something I agreed to for him. I do not regret the decision, though it is one that I am not comfortable with. I did decide that I had to be there for both babies, even though watching them be circ'd was the hardest thing I ever had to go through.

Now, it sounds that according to some posters, I am not NFL or something enough to post here. I don't claim to be anything in particular, other than pragmatic.

I post on MDC (mainly on working mamas) mainly because I feel totally out of place and weird on the mainstream boards. In my neighborhood, I am the radical earthy mama because I tandem nurse my two and I own a sling. But I sometimes feel like I am not NFL enough for MDC.

Just my comments.

Siobhan


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## Bearsmama (Aug 10, 2002)

Jish & USAmma-Thank you for your posts.


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## sadkitty (Jun 24, 2004)

People please! Stop making excuses for not protecting your son's genital integrity!

I don't really care who wins the "most crunchy" award, but this really riles me!

I had to have invasive genital surgery (urethra stretching) when I was six and i remeber it vividly. Does that mean I should have had it dome to my daughter when she was a newborn?

You are the one with intact genitals (I assume) which means that YOU have more in common with a new baby boy than a man who has been circed. You still have your clitoris and hood, he still has his frenelum and foreskin!

Circumcision is not inevitable! Just because most American Doctors think to amputate instead of curing does not mean that everyone will have to get it done.

And seriously, a friend not liking his genitals (whom, as a consenting adult can slice`em and dice `em as he pleases) as an excuse to mutilate your own baby? Good thing the guy didn't decide he wanted breasts, because you would be hard put to find a doctor to perform _that_ COSMETIC SURGERY ON AN INFANT.


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

:


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MilkOnDemand*
I don't see how elective circ could possibly fall into a definition of AP parenting - a very natural parenting technique.

Well, it certainly doesn't fit into my idea of gentle parenting.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Re: the circ thing

AP is about meeting your child's needs. Because of that, I can see how religious circumcision might be consistent with AP. It's not about meeting a greater need for the child as defined by the religion. Not saying that I agree with that interpretation, just saying that I can see how it might be rationalized.

Non-religious elective circumcision, on the other hand, is an AP issue (IMO) in the sense that choosing to harm your child in the moment when there is no greater need *for the child* being met is not being responsive to your child's need to be safe. Elective circumcision places a parent's want over a child's need and, in that sense, is not in the least AP.

I think it's obvious that parents who circumcise their boys not knowing any better and then have a change of heart can certaintly be AP. I do wonder, though, whether a parent who maintains that circumcision was an appropriate choice can truly be AP. That continued assertion is indicative of a mindset that a parent's (or family's, in some cases) want trumps a child's need, which is not at all consistent with the principles of AP. It also supports the view that children are not independent humans, and are not entitled to be free from harm at their parent's discretion. That, too, isn't consistent with AP principles.


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## boingo82 (Feb 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly*
..
I think it's obvious that parents who circumcise their boys not knowing any better and then have a change of heart can certaintly be AP. I do wonder, though, whether a parent who maintains that circumcision was an appropriate choice can truly be AP. That continued assertion is indicative of a mindset that a parent's (or family's, in some cases) want trumps a child's need, which is not at all consistent with the principles of AP. It also supports the view that children are not independent humans, and are not entitled to be free from harm at their parent's discretion. That, too, isn't consistent with AP principles.









:


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I was just thinking about this the other day. I was visiting with a friend, and was rather uncomfortable with her parenting style- shaming her children, threatening spankings (I don't think she's ever spanked but her DH has) and in general is very controlling of them. However, she's a huge babywearing advocate, nursed both of her DDs for a year, and had her babies in a bassinette in her room for the first few months. She doesn't officially like to co-sleep but her 8yo seems to sleep with her quite a bit!

Just because somebody is wearing her infant in a sling doesn't automatically mean that she's going to subscribe to all the AP ideals. I'm not even talking about striving for ideals and not necessarily meeting them (as I strive not to yell at my kids and fail repeatedly.) Some parents truly embrace one or more aspects of AP parenting and have absolutely no interest in other aspects.

As for the mom who calls herself AP yet advocates CIO- well, at least she tries to be attached during the daytime, right? Better to CIO at night and then be in arms all day than to CIO at night and be ignored all day.


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## Karry (Apr 10, 2002)

I'm definately not the crunchiest here and I have a lot to learn, but I just don't understand the need to come onto a AP/NFL board and defend the fact that your boys are circed for whatever reason. Do the anti-circ comments upset you so that you have to state that just because your boys are circed doesn't mean you can't be an AP parent? Well, a lot of us here feel otherwise. We don't think it is in the child's best interest to be strapped down and have his genitals mutilated for no good reason. And yes just because dad feels it should be done is not a good enough reason. Please come to the case against circumcision forum and learn more instead of stating your excuses for not protecting your son from circumcision.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
As for the mom who calls herself AP yet advocates CIO- well, at least she tries to be attached during the daytime, right? Better to CIO at night and then be in arms all day than to CIO at night and be ignored all day.

Yes, it's better, but it's still not AP. There's no way anyone who advocates CIO can be an attachment parent. Deliberating ignoring one's baby for 8-12 hours out of 24 is not being responsive to the baby's needs.


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## Danesmama (Dec 15, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Karry*
I'm definately not the crunchiest here and I have a lot to learn, but I just don't understand the need to come onto a AP/NFL board and defend the fact that your boys are circed for whatever reason. Do the anti-circ comments upset you so that you have to state that just because your boys are circed doesn't mean you can't be an AP parent? Well, a lot of us here feel otherwise. We don't think it is in the child's best interest to be strapped down and have his genitals mutilated for no good reason. And yes just because dad feels it should be done is not a good enough reason. Please come to the case against circumcision forum and learn more instead of stating your excuses for not protecting your son from circumcision.

This post is seriously offensive! I did not agree, after much debate, with my husband to have my sons circ'ed just because he wanted to. He had well thought out and clear arguements why *he felt* we should do it (none of which included that our ds's penis would look nice! - thus we did not base decisions on cosmetic surgery). I understand that you would never agree with his arguements, and thus am not going to go into that debate, but suffice to say I agreed because marriage is a partnership and sometimes we have to compromise. Again, I understand you would never compromise with your dh about circ, but you've never walked a mile in my shoes now have you?









Also - neither of my sons were strapped down - how dare you in your ignorance try to state that this happens in all cases! We insisted on pain relief and my second son slept through the entire proceedure. I agree that they were uncomfortable during the recovery, but I would never consent to having my sons strapped down!

I may have circ'ed my sons, but would never recommend that anyone else do it. I still extended BF (neither one of my sons has ever taken a bottle - even of pumped Breast Milk), co-sleep, sling, work at GD (I too loose my temper on occassion), Never used CIO, try to be responsive to my children's needs and treat them as human beings. If you don't consider me AP - that's fine, you're welcome to your opinion, but it seems rather narrow minded to me.


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

Except (and not addressing religion) there are NO legitimate reasons to circumcise a child. You are stripping his genitals of their most important part for some ideas your husband has. No one protected the baby.


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## boingo82 (Feb 19, 2004)

Marriage may be a partnership, but if one parent is advocating for medically-unnecessary genital cutting, I think it's fair to say that that parent has problems that need to be addressed, and the other parent absolutely MUST protect the children at all costs.
Knowing that circ is harmful and allowing it anyhow is about as far from AP as you can get. There are plenty of mamas who circ'd, honestly believing it was healthier, and they have my compassion because it was society and doctors who wronged them and their children. But knowing...knowing your infant is having part of his sexual organ amputated on the whim of your spouse, and ALLOWING that, is tantamount to allowing someone to sexually abuse your child as far as I'm concerned.


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## Karry (Apr 10, 2002)

I'm sorry if you felt offended by my post but I stand by my position. I agree marriage is a partnership, but circumcision is not something that should be decided by parents. Let the boy decide if he wants his penis mutilated.

I also didn't have to convince my dh not to circ. He agreed to it because I had done the research on it, and felt strongly about it. He also had not witnessed circs and I have. After witnessing them, there was no way I was going to have that done to my son. All of the circs I have seen have had babies strapped down, so my bad for assuming that all of them are done that way.


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## Shiloh (Apr 15, 2005)

Quote:

AP is about meeting your child's needs. Because of that, I can see how religious circumcision might be consistent with AP. It's not about meeting a greater need for the child as defined by the religion. Not saying that I agree with that interpretation, just saying that I can see how it might be rationalized.
I think its not as cut and dry a decision. I am muslim, I have two circ sons. I wish I had researched it, asked some religious scholars more before hand. But I am not sure I would have either way ever felt good about doing it or not. You know this might be an interesting project but to really source out for christian, jewish, muslim etc women what the basis is and if the religious scholars still see the relevance, just a thought.

Quote:

Also - neither of my sons were strapped down - how dare you in your ignorance try to state that this happens in all cases! We insisted on pain relief and my second son slept through the entire proceedure. I agree that they were uncomfortable during the recovery, but I would never consent to having my sons strapped down!
My sons were given a loose circ they still have foreskin not how its sometimes described, they were given nerve blocks, pain meds and after care and I really looked for discomfort, changes in appetite, sleeping there weren't any. My husband held them, there was no board they were strapped to...and I do think infant circ is less traumatic and easier to recover than choosing as a man as the nerves do grow back quickly shortly after birth just an aside.

I don't think you can judge a person's entire parenting style or values based on one decision to do something that you disagree with. There are things that are obvious like circ, then there are things that aren't like not GD when no one is around....No one is 100% AP, no one is ever going to be. Since every child is different even doing the same Attachment parenting with both children might yeild different qualities of attachment.

We all try to do (you can hope) to make the best decisions with the information or misinformation at hand.

But on the religious bent, one thing that religion does teach us is not to judge others. But I think this is more of a why would someone identify as AP if they are not really that interested. I think parenthood has become so politicized and I hate to see AP broken down into practices its first and foremost establishing secure emmotional parenting bonds.

Somedays maybe putting that kid in a stroller might be preserving the emmotional bond if the mom is about to loose it









But I think also unless you grew up with the organic eating, baby wearing, breastfed on demand, clothdiapering, affectionate accepting homeschoolin parents then its something these mamas are aspiring to and figuring out the difference between wearing your babybjorn to the mall/on an outing once a week and babywearin' for security. Its a learning curve for us all....

But I still get a kick of of some first time mom with a brand new baby aspiring to be so ap who thinks that 2 years might have been to quick to stop breastfeeding...um do it first honey







Also sometimes it requires mentioning things that are embarrassing like you take medication, you needed surgery, had to go to a mental institution for 3 weeks for sucidal postpartum depression....

or looks down at my stroller, girl I got three of them which one should I not wear today?


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## Animama (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Llyra*
I don't think of AP as a checklist. I don't think of AP as an exclusive club, that only people who follow everything on the checklist can belong to. I also don't really spend much time judging other people's parenting against some kind of checklist. So no, it doesn't really bother me much what people call themselves. CIO bothers me, and so does yelling and put-downs and spanking, but a mama can call herself any thing she pleases, and that's fine with me.

Amen, mama!


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

In response to the original post, I think that some people who categorize themselves as "AP" are really psyched to finally be part of an exclusive group. There's a range, there, as to how "AP" you can be. I noticed this when I was a new mom. The moms who were able to buy and show off "AP" goods and who were able to conform to a strict Granijuian or Searsian model of what a parent looks like, those people were like queens in their AP circles. Then there's other moms on the periphery, the ones who didn't nurse, or who used throw-away diapers, or who owned cribs. They were not quite as "in."

The whole thing smacks of Jr. High clique garbage to me.
I find anyone overly concerned with who's in and who's out of the cool moms' club to be highly irritating not to mention peurile.

edited to add, I hadn't read any of this thread so I apologize for repeating others.


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## LadyMarmalade (May 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USAmma*
Attachment Parenting is first and foremost about attachment and bonding. Period. There are many things that are contrary to attachment parenting such as causing a baby pain or emotional distress. There are other things that one might think are contrary to AP ideals that good AP parents practice because that's what works best for their family, or those are the circumstances they are faced with and must adjust the standards.

On paper I'm a miserable AP parent. I felt like a failure for years because some of the ideals of AP were not attainable to me. I have even made a lot of mistakes in the hazes of stress, sleep deprivatio, and PPD. But in my heart and in practice I'm very attached to my kids and they to me, and therefore I'm an AP mother.

OTOH just because a mother practices some or most of the AP goals (breastfeeding, family bed, etc) does not make them AP. I know of a few moms like this who look great on paper but behind the scenes things are not so great and the parents are not trying to improve themselves to get beyond those practices.

I think if a parent is trying to improve their parenting and they want to subscribe to the AP name as an inspiration to improve themselves and thier family life, then great! Even if they are not 100% perfect, it's up to us to encourage them and educate them, not criticize them and drag them down. They need us. Their kids need us.

What a beautiful post!!!

I've got to admit, I'm so saddened by the advocation/justification of circumcision in this thread.


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## Karry (Apr 10, 2002)

Me too.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Me too.


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## LadyMarmalade (May 22, 2005)

Oh gosh, no! I know how against it you are! I was responding to the many posts throughout the thread - not yours at all!!! Sorry if I gave you that impression.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caloli*
Oh gosh, no! I know how against it you are! I was responding to the many posts throughout the thread - not yours at all!!! Sorry if I gave you that impression.









I was editing my post as you replied. I was reading too fast. Sorry.


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## LadyMarmalade (May 22, 2005)

oh, no problem







Like I said, I know how against it you are, and if someone questioned whether I was supporting it I'd be 'now wait just a minute' too!


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## sadkitty (Jun 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danesmama*
This post is seriously offensive! I did not agree, after much debate, with my husband to have my sons circ'ed just because he wanted to. He had well thought out and clear arguements why *he felt* we should do it (none of which included that our ds's penis would look nice! - thus we did not base decisions on cosmetic surgery). I understand that you would never agree with his arguements, and thus am not going to go into that debate, but suffice to say I agreed because marriage is a partnership and sometimes we have to compromise. Again, I understand you would never compromise with your dh about circ, but you've never walked a mile in my shoes now have you?









Also - neither of my sons were strapped down - how dare you in your ignorance try to state that this happens in all cases! We insisted on pain relief and my second son slept through the entire proceedure. I agree that they were uncomfortable during the recovery, but I would never consent to having my sons strapped down!

I may have circ'ed my sons, but would never recommend that anyone else do it. I still extended BF (neither one of my sons has ever taken a bottle - even of pumped Breast Milk), co-sleep, sling, work at GD (I too loose my temper on occassion), Never used CIO, try to be responsive to my children's needs and treat them as human beings. If you don't consider me AP - that's fine, you're welcome to your opinion, but it seems rather narrow minded to me.


Sooo if your next one is a girl what part of her are you going to "compromise" to amputate?

You _really_ need to visit the case against circumcision forum.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.


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## Bearsmama (Aug 10, 2002)

Hi,
Just had to chime in again. I still have to go back to USAmma's eloquent post here and say that (of course, I'm paraphrasing here), that we all need to help each other attain the goals that are best for our children and ourselves wrt AP. SO, wouldn't it make sense to instead of chastizing someone for their choice of circumcision to point them in the direction of information, education, and current articles on the practice and why many, many people now feel that it is a totally unnecessary thing???


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## boingo82 (Feb 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bearsmama*
Hi,
Just had to chime in again. I still have to go back to USAmma's eloquent post here and say that (of course, I'm paraphrasing here), that we all need to help each other attain the goals that are best for our children and ourselves wrt AP. SO, wouldn't it make sense to instead of chastizing someone for their choice of circumcision to point them in the direction of information, education, and current articles on the practice and why many, many people now feel that it is a totally unnecessary thing???

Yes probably.
I think I am most troubled, not that these posters were misinformed, but that they KNEW it was unnecessary and allowed it anyhow.


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## Bearsmama (Aug 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boingo82*
Yes probably.
I think I am most troubled, not that these posters were misinformed, but that they KNEW it was unnecessary and allowed it anyhow.

I completely see your point, Boingo. In fact, I think that this is the exact moral conundrum that many of us come up against as we parent. There are things we all feel in our gut, and I believe it's our job to listen to that. And when we don't, or we can't, or perhaps that voice is obscured by cultural crap, or family crap, or whatever, we at least have to be aware that we heard the voice and chose on some level to ignore it. Hope that makes some sort of sense.


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## boingo82 (Feb 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bearsmama*
I completely see your point, Boingo. In fact, I think that this is the exact moral conundrum that many of us come up against as we parent. There are things we all feel in our gut, and I believe it's our job to listen to that. And when we don't, or we can't, or perhaps that voice is obscured by cultural crap, or family crap, or whatever, we at least have to be aware that we heard the voice and chose on some level to ignore it. Hope that makes some sort of sense.

Well said.


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

Wow, this thread is shocking. I didn't realize people could justify RIC surgery here. To compare it with a tired mom trying CIO or spanking in ignorance... I may have spanked my dd back in the day, but I don't come here to hear about why it wasn't so awful & how dare people try to make me feel bad for doing it. I apologized to her & that's that. However, if I'd cut her genitals off, it would be a lifetime mutilation she couldn't just forgive & forget.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
I think it's obvious that parents who circumcise their boys not knowing any better and then have a change of heart can certaintly be AP. I do wonder, though, whether a parent who maintains that circumcision was an appropriate choice can truly be AP. That continued assertion is indicative of a mindset that a parent's (or family's, in some cases) want trumps a child's need, which is not at all consistent with the principles of AP. It also supports the view that children are not independent humans, and are not entitled to be free from harm at their parent's discretion. That, too, isn't consistent with AP principles.

ITA.
Ds was circ'ed, due to mine and dp's ignorance on the issue. AFTER the fact, I got educated, and now both of us are very much opposed to RIC.
I would definitely consider myself "AP" (dp wouldn't, but just cuz he hates labels. lol), even though we don't follow the checklist (and I don't particularly care for Dr. Sears). But we are very considerate of ds's needs and wants, and treat him with as much respect (probably more. lol) as we would any adult.


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boingo82* 
Marriage may be a partnership, but if one parent is advocating for medically-unnecessary genital cutting, I think it's fair to say that that parent has problems that need to be addressed, and the other parent absolutely MUST protect the children at all costs.
Knowing that circ is harmful and allowing it anyhow is about as far from AP as you can get. There are plenty of mamas who circ'd, honestly believing it was healthier, and they have my compassion because it was society and doctors who wronged them and their children. But knowing...knowing your infant is having part of his sexual organ amputated on the whim of your spouse, and ALLOWING that, is tantamount to allowing someone to sexually abuse your child as far as I'm concerned.

ITA with this post. The defense of RIC in this thread is absolutely shocking









It's definitely one thing if you didn't know any better or if you have strong religious beliefs (not equating the two at all as I have strong religious beliefs too







), but to knowingly allow this







... I can't even fathom letting someone violate a helpless infant in that way.

love and peace.


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:

then its something these mamas are aspiring to and figuring out the difference between wearing your babybjorn to the mall/on an outing once a week and babywearin' for security. Its a learning curve for us all....
yeah, but don't assume just b/c someone- someone meaning me- says "she's only in the bjorn for an hour a week" doesn't mean they're not practicing AP. dd was a tiny baby, I simply carried her and held her in my arms about 95% of the time she was awake (and about half the time she was asleep) until she was able to sit up on her own. I didn't need a sling. (and no need for anyone to freak out about the torture chamber aka bjorn, I have a mt now. and it hurts my back just as much lol.)

I'm just happy if someone is aspiring to become more attached with their child. label or no!


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## VeezieTG (Nov 10, 2006)

vlad (dh) and i fell into ap quite naturally. when ds was born in january, i knew i wanted to bf, because of the long term benefits. we didn't read any books, or adhere to any kind of parenting guidelines. we just always slept with julien in bed with us, and i used the sling because the stroller felt so separating. and next thing i knew, i was ap without even trying!








we figured out what ap was and how to get even more involved in that kind of parenting once i realized that i was really feeling different from my other friends with kids. they had kids in their own rooms, not breastfed, cio, all kinds of crap i was appalled at. i went on another forum and was asking about other people's feelings about that and found out what ap was and kind of snowballed from there.









whats really frustrating is that i am a member of the ap meetup group here in fort lauderdale, and just because its the biggest moms group here everyone joins up. so i wind up talking to people who i think are into the same parenting techniques as me and then they look at me like i have 2 heads, and go talk to some other mom.







i have to say that especially among the punk/goth people i know, it seems like they all say they're ap and nfl but really are not, just because its popular in those communities...







:

just be you!! you'll be happier and make closer friends if you are just who you are, and do what you do.

on the other hand, maybe we can get all these wanna-bes to actually start practicing it!! then we don't have to be sad about those poor babies having to cry themselves to sleep in some lonely room, unsated by formula, and unaccustomed to their mother's warmth...


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## momaste (Oct 9, 2006)

I think I was the AP-wanna-be mama with the anti-AP baby.

DS had a very difficult time nursing, and despite hours of pumping, weekly visits with an LC, fenugreek (I smelled like pancakes!), mother's milk tea, living topless with him for weeks, giving him the breast any time he peeped, he just wasn't going for it. At 3.5 months, I pumped every two hours for a full day only to get 4 ounces of milk. DS would nurse and cry. So we went to formula and I was crushed.

DS never liked the family bed and has consistently slept better, without any CIO sleep training, in his own bed. We never sleep trained, but he does occasionally fuss for 5 minutes in his crib before falling asleep. He is a happy sleeper and has been since a very young age, but he won't nap or snuggle with us in our bed. I'd hoped for a family bed; he slept in our room until 9 months in his own crib.

We just switched to cloth diapers after moving into a home with a washer and dryer. I didn't feel like it was worth the effort in an apartment to go to the laundromat every two to three days for diapers - the cost and time involved made it an unwise decision for me. He doesn't like the cloth. He tugs at them, screams while being changed, has more rashes, and seems uncomfortable, even after trying a few different methods and styles of dipes. DH put him in disposables the other day and he went a few hours without fussing at them. I'm sticking with the cloth, but I'm disheartened.

We used a sling but only after 5 months - he hated it before then, no matter what position he was in. He would Baby Bjorn but only on DH.

He's not circed, we selective vax, and I hold him a lot. I love him like nothing else. But I can't claim the AP label; my baby doesn't want me to.


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momaste* 
He's not circed, we selective vax, and I hold him a lot. I love him like nothing else. But I can't claim the AP label; my baby doesn't want me to.

AP is really more about being attentive to your baby's needs, IMO. So... by parenting your son slightly less "AP" in some ways than you would like to, you are being more attentive to his particular needs. You are a wonderful AP parent because you recognised when to bend your ideals and goals a bit for the good of your child. You didn't keep trying to do what wasn't working for your baby because you wanted to have the perfect AP label









love and peace.


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## papercranegirl (Jun 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trmpetplaya* 
AP is really more about being attentive to your baby's needs, IMO. So... by parenting your son slightly less "AP" in some ways than you would like to, you are being more attentive to his particular needs. You are a wonderful AP parent because you recognised when to bend your ideals and goals a bit for the good of your child. You didn't keep trying to do what wasn't working for your baby because you wanted to have the perfect AP label









Exactly. I would rather call myself an Attentive Parent and practice things normally associated with AP so long as the child is willing to go along with it. But there are some times when your child has a different comfort level than the AP ideal and it is important to follow the child's needs. Some babies don't like being touched all the time. If a parent knows that but insists on slinging because they want to be seen as AP are they serving the child or themselves? I think parents need to see their children as individuals with different needs and parent accordingly. I think it's also important to recognize that each child in the family may have different needs as well. As long as a parent is respectful and loving to their children, I have a hard time judging them.

(that said, if I ever hear someone say something like their child is "bad" or use violence against their child, I will judge and judge harshly. That just isn't cool- AP or mainstream)


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## vanessab23 (Nov 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trmpetplaya* 
AP is really more about being attentive to your baby's needs, IMO. So... by parenting your son slightly less "AP" in some ways than you would like to, you are being more attentive to his particular needs. You are a wonderful AP parent because you recognised when to bend your ideals and goals a bit for the good of your child. You didn't keep trying to do what wasn't working for your baby because you wanted to have the perfect AP label









love and peace.

















:


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## momaste (Oct 9, 2006)

Thanks! I am attentive and love our little guy fiercely. His needs come first, even when they don't necessarily meld with what I envisioned.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I haven't read the other responses, but my guess would be that they WANT to practice AP but can't stick with it for whatever reason. I don't like labels and would never label myself AP, mostly because I would be afraid of doing something considered "non-AP" and someone thinking I was a hypocrit (sp?).


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## jamsmama (Jul 16, 2005)

I think if a person is "truly" AP they just live it and don't have to label it, siggy it, and shout it from the rooftops.







There are things that I practice in my daily life, but I don't let everyone know about it. If you just live it, the proof is in the pudding......it will show and you don't have to tell the world about it for justification or whatever the reason is that people do that. Just BE and you will be a happier person and so will your children. Labels are dangerous in all aspects.


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## WNB (Apr 29, 2006)

forum search function must be working or something, lol.

wonder what prompted resurrection of this thread, dead since march '06 until yesterday.


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## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *becoming* 
I haven't read the other responses, but my guess would be that they WANT to practice AP but can't stick with it for whatever reason. I don't like labels and would never label myself AP, mostly because I would be afraid of doing something considered "non-AP" and someone thinking I was a hypocrit (sp?).


Yeah I agree with that. I guess it's good that they _want_ to be AP. I only found out what AP was recently and realised I do some of those things. When my lo was born I just did what came natrually. I had bought a cot when I was pregnant but decided when he was born that it would be cruel to leave him all alone in it so he slept with us. I had a pram too - he hated it so was in the sling all day! I breastfed because I found it easy. Couldn't bear to hear him cry so would never do CIO. I would still never say I was AP though, I don't like labels either!


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

The term AP HAS taken on a life of it's own... even some AP parents don't TRULY grasp what is meant by "Attachment Parenting"...

A GREAT read for AP moms and dads: http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Secure.../dp/0399529942

Sheds some light on the depths of AP'ing... example, how a child may be TOTALLY attached, and firmly bonded, but, because of unknown, or unconscious variables, that attachment becomes insecure; how to reveal if this is or has happened, how to do emotional repair, and how to sustain AP'ing into your child's adulthood...


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