# How many people use boosters for their 7-9 year olds?



## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

My dd1 is on the shorter side, I suppose. She's certainly nowhere near 4' 9"--that's the recommended height to go without a booster, right? She's seven, almost eight and I just stopped using her Frontier as a 5-point harnass a few months back. I'm just amazed at how many of her friends don't use boosters at all. I guess what surprises me the most is the the mothers of these girls all *know* that it's safer for their girls to be in boosters but don't "want to argue." My dd1 doesn't argue because it's never been a choice. Ever. I don't get that at all. I just don't understand why loving, informed mothers would make this decision.


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## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

Ds 9.5 is still in a highback booster, and likely will be for a while. He is on the smaller side.

It makes me cringe the number of school aged kids that don't ride in anything.


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## *bejeweled* (Jul 16, 2003)

We do.







DD is almost 8 and in a high back booster.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

DSS 9 is still in his Graco Turbobooster with the back on it. He will be 10 in Dec. I will move him to the backless version then simply because the TB is expiring in Dec not because he's outgrown it by height or weight.


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

Nearly 9 yo in a HBB still. Until *very* recently she could have been harnessed in some of the new seats.

However, we keep her seat in the back seat of the van so none of her peers know she's in a booster still. Where we live, kids are bullied if they are still in any kind of a seat in preschool.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

My 8.5yo is in a highbacked booster and her friends have to use boosters in my car as well (highback if they fit, backless if they're too tall for the highback).

I'm 5'5" and barely pass the 5-step test in the bucket-y backseat of my car. Her friends will not pass.


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## corysmilk (Jan 2, 2004)

we keep ds, who is 7 in a booster seat. it's not a high back. We couldn't afford the better one.







But he always has it when in the car. We take it in and out when we change cars, or if his grandparents have him. I couldn't have him in the car without it. I am the paraniod type,


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

We have a 7 1/2 yo, and an almost 10 yo still in boosters.


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

Nearly 9 yo in a HBB still. Until *very* recently she could have been harnessed in some of the new seats.

However, we keep her seat in the back seat of the van so none of her peers know she's in a booster still. Where we live, kids are bullied if they are still in any kind of a seat in preschool.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

The law here is 8 years old so my oldest stopped using one when he is 8 and my middle will stop using hers (low-back booster) in November when she turns 8. My youngest is turning 5 in January. She'll be in a high-back booster until she's 6 and then I'll let her switch to a low-back one until she's 8.


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
The law here is 8 years old so my oldest stopped using one when he is 8 and my middle will stop using hers (low-back booster) in November when she turns 8. My youngest is turning 5 in January. She'll be in a high-back booster until she's 6 and then I'll let her switch to a low-back one until she's 8.

So, are they 4'9"? If not, do you just think it's "safe enough" or "not worth the fight".
I'm just not understanding this particular decision--if they kids aren't 4'9", I mean.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

To be precise, it's not whether they are 4'9" that matters. What matters is that they pass the 5-step test*. Differently-shaped kids pass at different sizes in different vehicles. I've seen kids pass around 4'6" in tiny third-rows. And as I stated upthread, I'm 5'5" and I barely pass in some vehicles.

5-step test (and it's all or nothing -- 80% is not passing):
~ shoulder belt crossing between neck and arm, not riding up on neck
~ lap belt crossing low on hips and thighs, not riding up on belly
~ back and buttocks against seat crease
~ knees bending at edge of seat (and preferably feet resting on floor)
~ able to maintain position for the entire trip


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

My ds just turned 7 a week ago. He's in a harnessed seat (Regent in 1 car and Nautilus in another) and will be for a little while. I expect him to outgrow the Nauti next summer probably (by height). The Regent he may fit in until age 8 or so.


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## jillmamma (Apr 11, 2005)

DS will be 8 in Dec., and still rides in a Turbobooster with the high back. I think he is just over 4' tall, so I expect him to be in it for quite awhile, although he may outgrow the back in the next year or so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2mygirl* 
So, are they 4'9"? If not, do you just think it's "safe enough" or "not worth the fight".
I'm just not understanding this particular decision--if they kids aren't 4'9", I mean.

The law is 8 years old. I feel the law is fine. No they aren't 4'9" but they sit just fine in the car.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

My oldest son will be 10 in January, and he's still in a low back booster (we went low back earlier than I would have liked, because for a time we had to fit three across and a low back is what worked for him). DD is 7 and in a high back booster. She is very tall for her age, but is nowhere near the 4'9" recommendation, and does not pass the 5 (or however many) step test in any vehicle we've tried it in. DS2 just turned 5 and is still harnessed, and probably will be for quite awhile. He's a peanut and still well under 40 lbs. (he could actually still rear face in some seats).


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## SubliminalDarkness (Sep 9, 2009)

My 8 1/2 year old is still in a booster, and I don't see taking him out of it for quite a while.


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

My oldest is turning 8 in a month and is still in his Regent. We had talked about the possibility of getting him a HBB when he turned 8, but he still has plenty of room in his Regent, it doesn't expire for another 2 years, and our budget could use a little catching up with all of the medical bills I've had recently. So, chances are I will have an 8 year old in a Regent a month from now. He'll eventually switch to a HBB which will get him (at his current growth rate) until he is probably 12-13. We are looking at Monterey for him, so it will probably switch to a LBB at some point if he is in it until he is 13.


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
The law is 8 years old. I feel the law is fine. No they aren't 4'9" but they sit just fine in the car.

So when you read Chikabiddy's 5 step test, know she is a CPST, you just think, "Oh, that's silly"?
I just don't get it. When my friend's dd was 3, ten years ago, I remember her telling me that she didn't legally *have* to be in a seat. Sometimes the lawmakers are ill informed.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

My 11 3/4 y. o. son just hit the 5 step test marks and he was quite excited to no longer need the high back booster. Our 9 year old daughter is still in her Britax Parkway HBB. Neither of them ever argued or complained about sitting in their boosters because I explained to them regularly that they were much safer in the case of even a small fender bender in their boosters. They noticed that some of their friends did not use boosters but they would quietly tell me about it, surprised that their parents didn't keep them safer and they seemed to feel bad for those kids. I think that my children are grateful that I go the extra mile to keep them safer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## luvmybaby333 (Nov 13, 2009)

My 7½-year-old is still in a high-backed-booster. She is the only child her age that we know who still rides in a HBB. Most kids her age don't have boosters at all; and if they do, then the are always the basic backless kind. She has never had a problem with it before. However, recently she did have her cousin come over and tell her all about how her mommy doesn't make her ride in one anymore AND how her mommy lets her ride up front now! Of course my daughter was upset and wanted to know why she couldn't do these things. I told her the truth. I told her that I loved her very much and I wanted her to be as safe as possible. Those things her friends are doing are NOT safe, and though they may seem like fun... I love her too much to be "fun" all the time.


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## nadia105 (Jul 16, 2003)

My dd is 7.5, in a HBB, and most likely will be for 1-2 years. She's not very tall for her age, so I don't think she will fit properly in the seat without a booster of some sort for a bit.

Heck, my MIL is only 4'11", she might not pass a 5 step test in some vehicles!


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

You know, I'm 5'2" (ok, almost, but I'm calling it 5'2" anyway!) and there is no way I would pass the 5 step test myself in most vehicles. I'm pretty sure my daughter won't pass until she is MUCH older- late teens, probably. Maybe more thought needs to be given to car design so those of us who are under 5'8" are safer while riding as passengers.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boheime* 
My oldest is turning 8 in a month and is still in his Regent. We had talked about the possibility of getting him a HBB when he turned 8, but he still has plenty of room in his Regent, it doesn't expire for another 2 years, and our budget could use a little catching up with all of the medical bills I've had recently. So, chances are I will have an 8 year old in a Regent a month from now. He'll eventually switch to a HBB which will get him (at his current growth rate) until he is probably 12-13. We are looking at Monterey for him, so it will probably switch to a LBB at some point if he is in it until he is 13.

A high-backed booster at 13 years old!?!


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

My ds1 is about to turn 16yo. He used a booster until he was 11yo and wasn't allowed to sit in the front until 12yo.

My ds2 is almost 8.5yo. He uses a clek LBB. He is about 51" tall and a super skinny 54 lbs. Bony build and low muscle tone. He'll be in the booster for at least another 3 years no problem, as it is rated to 120#.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
The law here is 8 years old so my oldest stopped using one when he is 8 and my middle will stop using hers (low-back booster) in November when she turns 8. My youngest is turning 5 in January. She'll be in a high-back booster until she's 6 and then I'll let her switch to a low-back one until she's 8.

Is your 4yo already in a booster? I hope I'm reading that wrong. I STRONGLY encourage you to do a bit more research. I'm sure that after you do, you will use the 5 step test rather than the law.

It really bears repeating:

5-step test (and it's all or nothing -- 80% is not passing):
~ shoulder belt crossing between neck and arm, not riding up on neck
~ lap belt crossing low on hips and thighs, not riding up on belly
~ back and buttocks against seat crease
~ knees bending at edge of seat (and preferably feet resting on floor)
~ able to maintain position for the entire trip

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
The law is 8 years old. I feel the law is fine. No they aren't 4'9" but they sit just fine in the car.

Would you use that line of reasoning no matter where you lived? I ask because in my state, a 3 yo is legal in a LBB and the law for no seat whatsoever is either 3 or 5, I forget which.

I say this for whomever may be reading: THE LAW IS NOT ENOUGH. You must go by safety standards, not state law. And you must use your seat correctly, every time, no matter how long or short the ride. Your children are too precious to take a chance with their lives by using an inappropriate seat (or worse, none at all!)


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

My 9-year-old is in a Britax Parkway still. I think I will move him to a backless booster. When he asks when he can be in a car without one, I tell him when he is 4'9. He gets it, even though none of his friends are in boosters.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
A high-backed booster at 13 years old!?!









Why is that so shocking to you? What's wrong with that?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *confustication* 
You know, I'm 5'2" (ok, almost, but I'm calling it 5'2" anyway!) and there is no way I would pass the 5 step test myself in most vehicles. I'm pretty sure my daughter won't pass until she is MUCH older- late teens, probably. Maybe more thought needs to be given to car design so those of us who are under 5'8" are safer while riding as passengers.

I absolutely agree that vehicles should be designed to keep smaller people safe as well, but you can also be reassured that small adults are safer in cars than small children. During puberty, the hip bones become harder and sharper. This helps keep the lap belt, which is the most important restraint, down where it belongs during a crash. (The arms of boosters are designed to act as "artificial hips" for children who do not yet have fully-developed hipbones.)


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## candycat (Jun 20, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
A high-backed booster at 13 years old!?!









That caught my eye, too.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

My 9.5 year-old is still in a booster. Honestly, he is tiny, though, like 13 percentile.

If I were an inch shorter, I would ride in a booster. I probably should!


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

wes was in one until he was over 11. hes not technically tall enough but he sits in the seatbelt properly
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *confustication* 
You know, I'm 5'2" (ok, almost, but I'm calling it 5'2" anyway!) and there is no way I would pass the 5 step test myself in most vehicles. I'm pretty sure my daughter won't pass until she is MUCH older- late teens, probably. Maybe more thought needs to be given to car design so those of us who are under 5'8" are safer while riding as passengers.

I agree. I'm 5 feet even and my kids are on the small side, too. I'm not planning to keep my kids in a booster until they meet the 5-step test if that means they would have to keep using one way past what other people consider the normal age. Of course their safety is important to me, but I don't think we should all feel obligated to do the absolute safest thing all the time. There are other factors to consider besides safety, and there are options that are reasonably safe even if they aren't the absolute safest possible.

ETA: To address the OP's question, my 7 1/2 year old is still in a high-back booster, and I'm not planning to stop using it as soon as she hits 8.


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## 4Marmalade (May 4, 2004)

My ds will be 8 in a few weeks and he is in a HBB. I was cleaning out the van and carseats this weekend so out of curiosity he sat in a seat without his booster and he was pretty close to fitting but his feet weren't on the floor and the seatbelt was still a bit high on his neck. I can see him using the booster for at least another year or two. Maybe it's just us but I really am not too aware of what other 8 year olds are sitting in. I know ds has never mentioned it and I don't think he could really care less what he sits in.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessedwithboys* 
Is your 4yo already in a booster? I hope I'm reading that wrong. I STRONGLY encourage you to do a bit more research. I'm sure that after you do, you will use the 5 step test rather than the law.

Yes my 4 year old is already in a HBB. And what exactly is wrong with that? She is almost 5 years old and she weighs 46 lbs and is in the 98% for height. I do not see the issue with her being in a booster and actually find it ridiculous that you would take issue with that.


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## MJB (Nov 28, 2009)

My oldest will be 8 in January. He is in a high-back booster in my car but uses a backless in other cars. I asked him to sit in the seat next to him (while parked) and try just the seatbelt and he said, "Mom, the seatbelt is at my lips." He realizes he needs a booster, and he's pretty big (50-51"). It's not something he would argue about. He actually prefers the HBB over backless because it is more comfortable. I think the seatbelts in the second row would be more likely to fit him in the foreseeable future but my other 2 (younger) kids are in those seats.

My 46 lb. 4.75 yr. old is in a harnessed seat and will be until 5.5-6.

Most of the kids we know around here who are 6+ don't use a booster. The law recently changed to 7 years but it's ignored. I've seen, within the past month, an infant lying on the front seat (reported to the cops but they did nothing), a 1 year old in a convertible carseat with the harness taken out and a lap belt passed over the kid, *many* toddlers/preschoolers in nothing at all, and forward-facing infants. It's shocking but it's obviously the norm around here and the cops don't seem to care. We moved in June from Ann Arbor and there, every kid I knew was in a booster until 8, which is the law.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Dd2 was 10 in July and is still in a booster.


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## Katie T (Nov 8, 2008)

My 10 1/2yo is still in a low back booster because she doesn't pass 1 step of the 5 step test. (the shoulder strap rides up on her neck). She sits in the last row of our van and the strap is just too far up. I don't know what I am going to do when she gains another 6lbs and weighs too much for the llb. I am hoping she grows up in height before then. She is tall but it is all in the legs. Im my moms car she passes the test just fine.

I agree that the laws in my state are not enough to keep the kids safe. According to my states "laws" she doesn't need to be in a booster but those laws were not enough to keep my friends little boy safe as he flew out of his seatbelt and died.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

My dd who just turned 10 on the 6th is still in her high back booster. She still likes 2 inches being to tall for it and 20pds to heavy for it. She will stay in it until she reaches the 57 inches or 100 pds which ever comes first.

My ds who will be 6 on the 18th is in a 5pt harness that he likes 20 pds and 9 3.8 inches to outgrow the harness part. The seat as a harness fits up to 65pds and 57 inches and up to 100pds as a booster.

The law here is 8yo but I feel that dd is safer in the booster. None of her classmates have been in any sort of car seat since K







Same for ds. But she dosnt have a problem at all with it. Same with ds sitting in a car seat is just what he has always known and dosnt know any different.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Yes my 4 year old is already in a HBB. And what exactly is wrong with that? She is almost 5 years old and she weighs 46 lbs and is in the 98% for height. I do not see the issue with her being in a booster and actually find it ridiculous that you would take issue with that.

Most 4yos, regardless of size, are not booster-ready. A few are. I am more concerned about kids being out of boosters at an arbitrary age than a 4yo in a booster, though.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katie T* 
My 10 1/2yo is still in a low back booster because she doesn't pass 1 step of the 5 step test. (the shoulder strap rides up on her neck). She sits in the last row of our van and the strap is just too far up. I don't know what I am going to do when she gains another 6lbs and weighs too much for the llb. I am hoping she grows up in height before then. She is tall but it is all in the legs. Im my moms car she passes the test just fine.

There are backless boosters that go up to 110# and 120#.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

My 8 year old is in a backless booster. He grew out of the high-back a while ago! He can't wait to be booster-free. We don't know any other 8 year olds who still use boosters.
We put him in a highback booster when he was 4. He was too broad-shouldered to fit in the Marathon comfortably at that age. I don't regret moving him to a HBB at 4, and will likely end up doing the same for my younger son.


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## sunanthem (Jan 29, 2004)

My 7.75 year old is in a booster, though he is pretty tall, and I think he would pass the 5 test. But he doesn't complain about it yet, so in it he stays. My 5 year old is in a booster too.


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## MrsGraffy (Apr 14, 2008)

I don't have a 7-9 year old yet, so I guess this is a little off topic, but I was shocked to see that all of the kids in my 4 year old's preschool class (except for him) are in boosters, and almost all of them are low back ones. I'm pretty sure there are several who aren't even 40 pounds. Kind of appalling.


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## 4Blessings (Feb 27, 2008)

My 7.5 and 9.5 yr-olds are both still in boosters. None of their friends are even though the law is 8 here.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Why is that so shocking to you? What's wrong with that?

Do they make a low-back one for the driver's seat? Because he'll be getting his license in 3 years.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katie T* 
My 10 1/2yo is still in a low back booster because she doesn't pass 1 step of the 5 step test. (the shoulder strap rides up on her neck).

I don't pass that step either...


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Do they make a low-back one for the driver's seat? Because he'll be getting his license in 3 years.

Just because he doesn't fit the belt properly at 13 doesn't mean he will be in a booster forever. And, FTR, my husband sat on phone books and pillows to drive when he got his license.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Do they make a low-back one for the driver's seat? Because he'll be getting his license in 3 years.

There's nothing wrong with a driver who is too short to sit safely in a car being in a booster. However, most boys grow a whole, whole lot between 13 and 16. However, I do think it's pretty messed up that most car seat belts aren't made so grown women can pass the "seat belt crossing at the shoulder not neck" rule. I'm 5-4 and even with an adjustable seat belt, I can't make it fit right.


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## ChocolateNummies (Apr 9, 2007)

My 8.5 yo daughter is still in a booster since most of the time seat belts don't hit her in the right spot. She seems to carry her height in her legs.

The seat belt in the back seat of our truck actually fits her properly but there's no cushiony head rest behind her head - just the rear window. I use a HBB in that vehicle only becuz I worry about her hitting her head on that window. In other cars, I convert it to a backless booster. She seems fine with it, she knows it's for safety.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

My 7.5 year old rides in a booster and will for quite a few more years. She rides in a high backed booster in my car, backless for school trips and friend's car. All the 1st and 2nd graders in her school at least have to a booster twice a week for school trips (they have drum lessons off campus and then have a wilderness day). The school will not transport them without seats.







Outside of school, would say it is evenly spilt between kids who do still ride in one and those who do not. The law here is until 8.


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## Katie T (Nov 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
There are backless boosters that go up to 110# and 120#.

Aww thanks can you tell it has been awhile since I have had to booster shop...


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## just_lily (Feb 29, 2008)

I think the major problem here is that it is way too easy to be complacent. It is the issue with all carseats really.

It is too easy to say "my kid is fine." Because yes, the odds are on any given car trip, your kid will be fine... no matter if they are in a booster, a carseat, rear facing, laying on the floor, or hanging out the window.

But car seats aren't meant to keep your kids safe on a regular trip. They are meant to keep your kid safe *in a collision.* That is key. Just because your kid was fine on the last 9,999 trips you took without getting into a collision doesn't mean they are going to be safe on the 1,000 trip when you are in a head-on crash going 100km/h.

If you *knew,* with 100% certainty, that you would get into a crash the next time your kid was in your car, what would you do differently? Most parents would take the opportunity to have their child in the safest configuration possible.

The key thing to remember is that we will never know when an accident is going to happen. If we did, we would be able to avoid it.

I know all kinds of parents who worry about organic foods, chemicals in the environment and have banked their child's cordblood cells... but won't keep their child as safe as possible in the car. Any given child is much more likely to die in a car crash than to require their cord blood, so it is really hard for me to wrap my head around this reasoning.

I live in an area that required car seats to be used until age 4 - and booster seats count here. So a 2yo in a booster is legal. A 4yo without a booster in the front seat is legal. I have taken time to write politicians myself and basically was told to PFO.

For the vast majority of the kids unsafely restrained in vehicles, they will end up just fine, because they will be fortunate enough to avoid a collision. But not all kids are so lucky. If we are ever in an accident I want to be able to know that I did everything in my power to keep my child safe. If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

When I was a kid we used to ride around in our Chevy van sitting on lawn chairs, and "we were fine." True. But only because we never had a wreck. Otherwise we would have made front page news, and I wouldn't be sitting here.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

my just about 8 year old uses a booster in one of our cars but not the other.. She is long legged and long torrso and fully passes the test in the car we removed it from, but because of the seat laout in our other she still needs the booster. SHe will turn 8 on the 26th of this month we JUST said okay to her not using the booster in the one car.

Deanna


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *just_lily* 
But car seats aren't meant to keep your kids safe on a regular trip. They are meant to keep your kid safe *in a collision.* That is key.

I have never been complacent about car seat use, and am grateful to this day that I wasn't.

We were in a car accident when my oldest was 8, and my other 2 children were 2 yo and 5 months. It happened in seconds. Our car was totaled. The front end was less than a third of the size it started out as, and the firefighters had to cut us out. The damage to the front end rendered the car undriveable and unfixable. The airbags didn't deploy, but should have. The two younger children were in properly installed Britax Roundabouts in the back seat, and walked away from the crash without a mark on them.

At the time, my 2 yo was going through a phase where she would unbuckle her car seat while I was driving. About 1/4 mile down the road before the crash, I had turned around at a red light, and rebuckled her. It makes my blood run cold to think about what could have happened if I hadn't noticed she'd unbuckled herself, hadn't taken the moment to rebuckle her, or hadn't had her in the car seat. As it was, I was wearing my seatbelt, and I smacked my head into the windshield, and my knees into the dashboard, because the seat belt didn't engage quickly enough. The impact was just so fast.

It was just a routine trip, and we were on our way home from the vet, down a road that we traveled almost every day before the crash, and every day after, until we moved away.


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## chel (Jul 24, 2004)

dd1 used a booter till about 8.5yrs. i kept it till 10yrs just incase we needed it, but never did.

i have a friend with a small dd that was using a booster at age 9yrs (moved so don't know when/if she stopped)


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## Jenivere (Aug 4, 2003)

My son will be 9 in January and is in a high back booster. When it expires in November I'm fine with him moving to a low back but he will still use a booster of some sort because he doesn't fit in the seat/seatbelt yet.


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## nutritionistmom (Jun 16, 2007)

My almost 11 yo uses a low back booster. The law in Ontario is 8 yo or 80 lbs, most parents throw out the booster at 8 yo.


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## treeoflife3 (Nov 14, 2008)

My child will be in her radian xtsl til she outgrows it. I know someone who has a 7 year old son still in his radian as well.


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## ancoda (Oct 17, 2005)

My 8.5 year old is still in a backless booster.


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

Does anybody know why seats expire? I haven't even thought about that! Must go check ds's. Where would it say?

That said, my ds is 9y8-1/2m old. He's tall and skinny, about 53" tall, I think? And nearly 60lbs. Some days








Me, I'm 5'1" and just now down to 171lbs from over 200, and I could use a booster! I used to drive a Plymouth GranFury and I had to sit on books and pillows to see over the dashboard









DS is in a HBB in my car, and low back ones in other people's cars, and is just starting to complain that none of his friends have to use one.
His best friend is just-turned-9 and is very small and doesn't use one. His parents are very conscious people and they're fine with this, but it seems to be as touchy a subject as breastfeeding, so I leave it alone, mostly. It's their child, after all. But it does appall me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2mygirl* 
My dd1 doesn't argue because it's never been a choice. Ever. I don't get that at all. I just don't understand why loving, informed mothers would make this decision.











It's not debatable, in my family.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *confustication* 
Where we live, kids are bullied if they are still in any kind of a seat in preschool.

Oh, that's horrible









Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
and her friends have to use boosters in my car as well

Yep, me too. Everybody uses seat belts and everybody smaller uses boosters. If they balk, they don't ride in my car. It's me that gets the ticket if adults are caught w/o a seat belt.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *carmel23* 
If I were an inch shorter, I would ride in a booster. I probably should!

Me too-- if they made one wide enough for my fat arse









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daffodil* 
but I don't think we should all feel obligated to do the absolute safest thing all the time. There are other factors to consider besides safety

I respectfully disagree. What is more important that one's child's safety? What other factors?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
There are backless boosters that go up to 110# and 120#.

Really? Got linky? I don't think my ds will have to worry about that, but then again, he might. He's skinny.

The law is ambiguous here (NC), I think. There are places I've seen it listed as "8yo and (I think "and" and not "or") 80lbs" and then there are billboards all over that say "4'9". It's the law".

I know plenty of people that just ditch the booster when their DC turns 8. I am all about weight/height/the 5-step thingy. Thanks, btw, for posting that!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunanthem* 
But he doesn't complain about it yet, so in it he stays.

So...when he does, he stops using one? (*waves from Oakley*







)

For me-- I don't count that as criteria for being unsafe









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breathless Wonder* 
At the time, my 2 yo was going through a phase where she would unbuckle her car seat while I was driving.











I'm so glad you all were safe!! How scary.

That said, when ds was that age, I used to turn the buckle part (with the button) around backwards so he was still buckled, but didn't have the dexterity to unbuckle it from the back side









Yeah, here (Western NC) I also see LOTS of kids too small/young to be in just a seat belt. It makes me really sad-- so scary. All it takes is ONE collision.
There have been times when I've been SO tempted to make DS wear a helmet in the car, too.


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## ALittleBitCrunchy (Jan 8, 2005)

My son is 8 1/2 and in a booster (low). He's 4'7"-ish. DD is almost 7 and also in a low booster. She's 4'3"-ish.

My guess is that both will be in a booster until they turn 9.

DS is the only one in his peer group in a booster. He knows it and isn't thrilled by it but doesn't give us any grief about it. He went through a stage right after he turned 8 where he was very vocal about it but it's faded. I think that he had in his head that it ended at 8 and it was that expectation that caused the problem. DD may be the only one in her group as well - I don't see as many of them in cars so I'm not sure.

My SIL works at the local primary school and said that she very, very, very rarely sees even a kindergartener get into a booster...and that half of these k'ers sit in the front seat.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maiasaura* 
Does anybody know why seats expire? I haven't even thought about that! Must go check ds's. Where would it say?

It depends on what kind of booster it is, but most have a date of manufacture on a white sticker on the bottom of the seat (or stamped into the plastic). Most boosters expire 6 years after date of manufacture.

Quote:

Really? Got linky? I don't think my ds will have to worry about that, but then again, he might. He's skinny.
Harmony boosters go to 110# and are inexpensive and widely available. Clek and Sunshine Kids boosters go to 120#, but they're pretty spendy.

Quote:

The law is ambiguous here (NC), I think. There are places I've seen it listed as "8yo and (I think "and" and not "or") 80lbs" and then there are billboards all over that say "4'9". It's the law".
I'm a CPST in NC. Our law is that children must be in boosters (or harnessed seats) until they reach either 8 years or 80 pounds. However, the law also requires that children over 8y and 80# be secured in a properly fitting seatbelt: if they are much smaller than 4'9", the seatbelt will almost certainly not fit properly and it would be illegal to use an improperly fitting seatbelt.

P.S. We're probably a similar size, and I can get _most_ of my butt into a Harmony Secure Comfort Deluxe backless booster.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I am pretty sure that they expire because of the plastic aging. Plastic dry rots and looses its flexibility as it ages as well.


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
It depends on what kind of booster it is, but most have a date of manufacture on a white sticker on the bottom of the seat (or stamped into the plastic). Most boosters expire 6 years after date of manufacture.

Oh, I did go out and check, and it's 4 years old. That's good to know; thanks. And also the info on heavier car seats. I checked ds's all out, and it's good to 100lbs, so yay!
He'll be way taller than 4'9" before he reaches 100lbs. His half-sister was 12 or 13 and she was still 78lbs or so. Their side of the family is uber tall and skinny. She's 21 now and I think she's like 5'10" and 117lb or so.

Quote:

I'm a CPST in NC. Our law is that children must be in boosters (or harnessed seats) until they reach either 8 years or 80 pounds. However, the law also requires that children over 8y and 80# be secured in a properly fitting seatbelt: if they are much smaller than 4'9", the seatbelt will almost certainly not fit properly and it would be illegal to use an improperly fitting seatbelt.
I had to read that a couple of times-- I think it's written ambiguously! I wish it was clearer, and that people wouldn't just toss the booster when their kid turns 8.
So...your first sentence says "8 OR 80" and then your 2nd one says children over 8 AND 80. Could you clarify a bit?

Quote:

P.S. We're probably a similar size, and I can get _most_ of my butt into a Harmony Secure Comfort Deluxe backless booster.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

My dd was 9 1/2 and ds was 8 when they outgrew their boosters either by hieght or weight. DD couldn't even use a low back booster anymore at that age because it put her head up over the back of the seat of the car.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maiasaura* 
So...your first sentence says "8 OR 80" and then your 2nd one says children over 8 AND 80. Could you clarify a bit?

According to the law, it's whichever comes first. When they hit 8y or 80#, they can legally ride without boosters, IF they fit in the seatbelt properly.


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## dizzysmom (Jun 25, 2010)

DSS is 7 1/2 and is both short and light for his age. He does not ride in one.









DH and I have gone back and forth on this one. He rode in a low-backed booster until last winter, when his mom stopped making him sit in his booster at home and DSS started refusing to sit in it when he was with us. Frankly, I'd like to know how she's transporting 4 kids, 3 of whom should at least be in boosters according to our state law and 1 who is in an infant seat, in a compact car, but that is another story for another board. Long story short, DH does not feel that this is a fight worth picking.


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
According to the law, it's whichever comes first. When they hit 8y or 80#, they can legally ride without boosters, IF they fit in the seatbelt properly.

Oh, OK! That's a lot more clear. Thank you! Is the 5-point thingy part of the law, too, or just a recommendation?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

NC state law does not specify an age or size to which children must be harnessed, but does specify proper use. This means that if a booster's minimum is 3y and 30#, it is illegal for a child who is not both 3y and 30# to use the booster. MOST highbacked boosters have 3y/30# minimums (all have 30# minimums: most have 3y minimums as well, but some have a 1y







age minimum).


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## Marissamom (Dec 17, 2009)

I'm another mama who should be using a booster in the front seat of some cars. my current car I can't sit all the way back, and the seatbelt won't stay low because it fastens a good 4 inches above the level of the seat, so it literally floats above me on that side. the seatbelt thing is in my opinion a major design flaw of the car, and if we do ever get in an accident and I get injured, the company will get a lawsuit.


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maiasaura* 
I respectfully disagree. What is more important that one's child's safety? What other factors?

I think most of us consider a lot of other things at least as important as safety. Do your children ever leave the house? Do you take them on unnecessary car trips - to playgroups, museums, parks, etc.? Are they allowed to use bikes, skates, or sleds, or go swimming? Will they be allowed to date or go out alone with friends when they're teenagers? If you answered yes to any of those questions, then you're not doing everything you could to keep your kids safe. But that's perfectly reasonable, because staying safe is not the most important thing in life. If I decide not to make my kids use booster seats as teenagers, even if they can't pass the 5-step test, I think that's just as reasonable as allowing them to ride bikes.


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
A high-backed booster at 13 years old!?!









If you had read my entire post, you would have noticed that I said we were looking at purchasing a Monetrey for him, and that if he still needed a booster at thirteen we would probably switch it to a LBB. He's a small kid. He's just under 4 feet at age 8. His growth seems to be on par with how my brothers all grew - on the short and small side until right around age 16 - when they shot up well past 6 feet tall. If he needs a booster at age 13 to be safe, definitely he will have one. The same goes for the rest of my kids.


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## SubliminalDarkness (Sep 9, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daffodil* 
I think most of us consider a lot of other things at least as important as safety. Do your children ever leave the house? Do you take them on unnecessary car trips - to playgroups, museums, parks, etc.? Are they allowed to use bikes, skates, or sleds, or go swimming? Will they be allowed to date or go out alone with friends when they're teenagers? If you answered yes to any of those questions, then you're not doing everything you could to keep your kids safe. But that's perfectly reasonable, because staying safe is not the most important thing in life. If I decide not to make my kids use booster seats as teenagers, even if they can't pass the 5-step test, I think that's just as reasonable as allowing them to ride bikes.

There's a difference between reasonable safety and not. It is not UNreasonable to have a child who is unsafe without a booster sit in one, especially if we're talking about a child who is 8 or 9. To take them out simple for the sake of it is reckless. There is no legitimate, significant benefit to it.


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SubliminalDarkness* 
There's a difference between reasonable safety and not. It is not UNreasonable to have a child who is unsafe without a booster sit in one, especially if we're talking about a child who is 8 or 9. To take them out simple for the sake of it is reckless. There is no legitimate, significant benefit to it.

I agree that there's no benefit to taking a child out of a booster seat if the child is not unhappy using it and not being teased about it. But I'm not sure the increased danger for an 8 or 9 year old is great enough to call the decision "reckless." It's safer for a kid never to ride a bike, but that doesn't mean letting your kids ride bikes is reckless.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

True. but at what point does the benefit no longer outweigh the teasing, humiliation, etc of it? At what age could your kids sto priding around in a booster? 15? 16?? I mean, really. Are you seriously going to make your kid haul a lbb around when they're 15-16 yrs old if they still "fit" in it?? I'm not. I love my kids - thats why I keep'm rfing as long as I can (Ds1 just got flipped at 3.5 when he broke his leg and simply would *NOT* fit rfing anymore), but I'm not going to keep them boostered forever. Cause' as noted, some of us adults could and maybe "should" be in boosters. But we aren't. So at what age would your kid be "allowed" to stop using one even if they "still don't fit"??


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque* 
So at what age would your kid be "allowed" to stop using one even if they "still don't fit"??

Sometime after puberty. As I wrote upthread, developed (internal/skeletal, not external/curvy) hips help hold the lap belt where it needs to be during a crash. I would allow my child to ride without a booster a few years after puberty. Otherwise, I would let her use the funky zebra-striped or pink leopard backless after age 10 or so.

ETA: I realize some people will find this excessive. That's okay. THIS is my parenting hill-to-die-on. I let her buy school lunch when she wants (ours is better than many, but it's still not like what I'd make at home). She gets computer time nearly every day. But she *will* ride in a booster for years to come.


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## just_lily (Feb 29, 2008)

My kid can ride a bike, but only while wearing a helmet.

She can swim, but only with a lifeguard, or responsible adult present.

When she is old enough to go out on her own, I will expect to know where she is going, who she will be with, and when she will be home.

And when she rides in the car, she will be in a properly fitting and installed car seat or booster until she is large enough to sit in a seat belt, and mature enough to stay that way.

It is not about never doing risky things.... it is about keeping her as safe as possible while still enjoying life.

And if everyone kept their kids in boosters, nobody would get teased because it would just be something that "is". Then all of our kids would be safe, and nobody would be bullied about it.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *just_lily* 
It is not about never doing risky things.... it is about keeping her as safe as possible while still enjoying life.

And if everyone kept their kids in boosters, nobody would get teased because it would just be something that "is". Then all of our kids would be safe, and nobody would be bullied about it.

Yes and yes!

So, it's O.K. to risk your child's safety... to increase the probability that they will die... because someone *teased* them? How about empowering our kids to stick up for themselves instead? I'm very, very surprised, as a pp mentioned that we do so much that is child-centered AP, and yet, fall short on what may be the most important issue of them all... keeping them safe in the car.

In my dd's grade (3rd - they're all about 8.5yo), only the tall boys are not in a booster. She has 10 girls in her class and every single one of them are still in boosters. Nobody thinks anything of having friends in boosters. It is the norm... as it should be.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

My 8.5 year old uses a low back booster. He can pass the 5 step test in dh's car, but not mine, so he uses the booster. He doesn't mind it at all and actually prefers it so he can see better. None of the kids his age (or even younger in some cases) uses any type of seat, most sit in the front and I've only seen a few actually buckled in.


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## Katie T (Nov 8, 2008)

My 10.5 yo is in a booster and no one at school makes fun of her. She even has friends ride with us and I guess I am lucky that they don't run through the school saying DD is in a booster. It is a non issue because it is not a choice.

I was educating someone last night about the importance of efring after they saw that my 2yo is still rfing and DD1 piped up and said "I have been in a car seat for 10 yrs!" lol. She doesn't love it but knows mama loves her and that is why she is in it till she fits in the seat belt.

I think it is a great teaching moment to let them know to stand up for what is right and not follow the crowd.


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## JollyGG (Oct 1, 2008)

Haven't read all the responses yet, but I had to laugh reading the first couple who said my child's in a booster but is on the small side. My son, age 7, is in a booster and he's in the 99% for height. But he still needs a booster.

I also require his friends to sit in the spare booster in our car when they ride with me. It's clear that he is one of the only ones.

I personally don't know why you wouldn't. A booster is easily portable. They sit higher and can see more out the window. I just don't understand what makes them so undesirable.

I can understand not wanting to mess with a big heavy seat or getting a car seat fit every time you child goes with someone else. But really, a booster seat is very easy to use and both of mine will be using one until they fit right in the seat.

I'm thinking next summer when my son is 8 he's likely to be fitting in some seats properly. But even in the 99% for height I'm not positive of that.


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
NC state law does not specify an age or size to which children must be harnessed, but does specify proper use.

No, no, no!







I meant this, not a 5-point harness. I just could not think of the name of it when I posted about it upthread:

Quote:

5-step test (and it's all or nothing -- 80% is not passing):
~ shoulder belt crossing between neck and arm, not riding up on neck
~ lap belt crossing low on hips and thighs, not riding up on belly
~ back and buttocks against seat crease
~ knees bending at edge of seat (and preferably feet resting on floor)
~ able to maintain position for the entire trip
Sorry for the confusion!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daffodil* 
Do your children ever leave the house? Do you take them on unnecessary car trips - to playgroups, museums, parks, etc.? Are they allowed to use bikes, skates, or sleds, or go swimming? Will they be allowed to date or go out alone with friends when they're teenagers? If you answered yes to any of those questions, then you're not doing everything you could to keep your kids safe. But that's perfectly reasonable, because staying safe is not the most important thing in life.

It _is_, to me.
No, my son never leaves the house. We live on a thru-street that is very dangerous, with no sidewalks. _I_ don't even leave the house. Except by car.
I don't consider those kinds of trips unnecessary, but we occasionally do those things.
He is allowed to bike and skate and in NC, helmets are required by law for those things.
I make him wear his helmet both biking and skateboarding, and rollerblading when he rarely does that. And I am on him constantly about making sure the helmet covers his forehead. And for skateboarding he wears full gear: knee and elbow pads and wrist guards. And the helmet has to be buckled. For biking also.
As for going out when he's a teen, that depends on his behavior







But in my car? He is going to have to deposit the full deductable of my insurance policy in my bank account before I'll even consider letting him drive my car. And he will be taking a driver's ed course, for sure. I am still using things I learned in that class, which I took at age 16, and I'm 50 now.

Sledding, no-- not enough snow. But if there was, he'd wear a helmet doing that, too.
Swimming-- only with a certified lifeguard. One that pays attention to the swimmers. Once we were at a lake we often go to, and the young man lifeguarding paid no attention to the water-- he was too busy listening to his boombox and preening. We left and I reported him. So did other parents, apparently, because he got fired.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
I realize some people will find this excessive. That's okay. THIS is my parenting hill-to-die-on. I let her buy school lunch when she wants (ours is better than many, but it's still not like what I'd make at home). She gets computer time nearly every day. But she *will* ride in a booster for years to come.

Yep. That.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *just_lily* 
My kid can ride a bike, but only while wearing a helmet.
She can swim, but only with a lifeguard, or responsible adult present.
When she is old enough to go out on her own, I will expect to know where she is going, who she will be with, and when she will be home.
And when she rides in the car, she will be in a properly fitting and installed car seat or booster until she is large enough to sit in a seat belt, and mature enough to stay that way.

It is not about never doing risky things.... it is about keeping her as safe as possible while still enjoying life.

And if everyone kept their kids in boosters, nobody would get teased because it would just be something that "is". Then all of our kids would be safe, and nobody would be bullied about it.











This is THE BEST post!!! YES! ITA.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

This is the '5 step' for when its ok to move your child from a 5pt harness into a booster seat:
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=38893

Crash test:





This one is for when you can move your child from a booster to a regular adult seatbelt:

http://www.carseat.org/Boosters/630.htm

How a booster should fit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-kjh...eature=related

Crash test:





As for adults: I dont fit into many seatbelts properly either, but the difference between me and an 8-9-10-11yr old is that I've gone through puberty and therefore have better developed hip bones that hold up in a crash more than a younger child's would.

Also, the 'belt across the neck' is the least amount of worry as far as the 5-step test. The main issue with the seatbelt cutting across the neck is that kids may decide its uncomfortable and put it under their arm, behind them, or off their shoulder making the seatbelt unsafe. So, for adults its may be annoying, but its not really a safety concern.

My son is super tiny, he is 3 and 25# and 35" (guessing on his height, he is just under 3'). He is rearfacing in his seat right now obviously, but when he goes into a booster, he will stay in one until he either a. passes the 5-step test, or b. goes through puberty AND passes most of the 5-step test, the main point being the belt fit across the lap. Although, if he doesnt complain he will stay in the booster until he passes all of the 5-step.

For those going by 'the law' alone, remember that the law is the bare minimum for safety standard, and in many states isnt even even close to the minimum as recommended by carseat techs and supported by crash test evidence.
My child is NOT a minimum.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

My 9.5 yo is not in a booster-she's really tall, though. My 8.5 yo son is in the high back booster still, though.


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## MyFullHouse (Apr 23, 2010)

My daughters are 7 and 8, and both are in boosters. The only person who has ever given them grief over it is their GRANDMOTHER.







They don't ride in a car with her anymore.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

First, I would like to remind everyone to remain calm when discussing car-seat safety. I understand it is a real passion for many people, but direct attacks are never permissable. Some posts have been right on the edge of "okay"--- I would hate to close the thread.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leighi123* 
This is the '5 step' for when its ok to move your child from a 5pt harness into a booster seat:
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=38893

I hate examples of one size fits all:

Quote:

Cognitive ability associated with the necessary attention span to use a booster correctly does not even begin to develop until at least 4 years old.
This makes me







My son had the cognitive ability to sit still and play chess at barely 2, he definetly had the necessary attention span to sit in a booster at the same age (he didn't sit in a booster, but not everyone has the same attention span and to say that it is impossible just annoys me).

Both of my children are out of boosters at this point. DD is 5'2.5" and over 100 lbs. She was in a booster through 4th grade and then transitioned out. We didn't have her take her booster on field trips in 4th grade. While she still fit in the booster when we took her out, I felt she was safer without. She was getting to a height where she seemed top-heavy in a low-backed booster--- she looked extremly likely to hit her head on the window if jarred from the side. She had no problem passing the 5 point test in the van.

DS transitioned out of a booster over the summer. He turned 9 at the end of the summer. He is NOT tall. He is about 4'5" and 65 lbs. I had explained to him why he still needed the booster (passing the 5 point test). He then proceeded to experiment and realized if he sat in the middle seat in the middle row of our (8-passenger) van he could easily pass the 5 point test. So, he asked if he sat there all the time, could he go without a booster. And I agreed. And, logically, since he can pass the test he is SAFER without the booster than with (because that seat is thinner than the other seats, it goes captains seat,middle, captains) we never put a booster there BUT the middle seat in the middle row is the furthest from any car sides making it safer.

So, I had an 8 year old who was not in a booster. And I don't regret it at all. While, IRL, virtually no one questioned my decision to have him sit without a booster (well, two of my friends did because they know I am into car safety and make *their* kids ride in boosters in my car, lol) I wish that the people on line would consider that my decision MAY have been an actual decision and not just a mindless conformity thing.


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## canadiannancy (Feb 23, 2005)

The law here is minimum 8 years old or 80 lbs or 4 foot 9 inches. Mine will be in a child seat until at least the minimums of the law. Right now they are all in convertibles, My 4 year old rearfacing, 2.5 year old rearfacing, 14 month old rearfacing and 5 year old harnessed forward facing. I know some who don't even have their kids harnessed at 2, I know some who forward faced at 6 monthes, I know some who skip the car seat altogether. these are parents who love their kids and want them to be safe but just choose to do what is easy. I don't care if it is not easy will be doing the safest as long as I can.


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## Minxie (Apr 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JollyGG* 
Haven't read all the responses yet, but I had to laugh reading the first couple who said my child's in a booster but is on the small side. My son, age 7, is in a booster and he's in the 99% for height. But he still needs a booster...I'm thinking next summer when my son is 8 he's likely to be fitting in some seats properly. But even in the 99% for height I'm not positive of that.


I think this way when I see some of my son's Pre-K classmates riding in their parents' cars without even a booster. My DS is 4.5 years old, ~54lbs and ~47" tall. He is THE biggest kid in his class and he's still in a harnessed seat.

I bought the Frontier _specifically_ because I knew he would be big but still need a harnessed seat. As a matter of fact, I just switched his seat over from LATCH to the seatbelt (what a freakin' PAIN!!!) and adjusted his straps. (The Frontier makes the strap adjustment super easy as long as the seat is not secured.)

He's looking forward to the day when he can use the grown-up seatbelts. He has friends who use LBB and thinks that is SO COOL! We had a bit of a chat about it ending with "I am not Morgan's Mom; I am YOUR Mom."


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## 3 little birds (Nov 19, 2001)

My 11 year old twins are still in boosters, one in a LB Clek and one in a HB Parkway because they had different comfort needs. They are tiny and we kid that they will need them when they are in high school. My 8 year old just transitioned out of a Frontier into a HBB. My 5 year old will inherit the Frontier-everyone is jealous because it is so comfy. I like it because he can stay in a 5 point harness-he is in no way capable of sitting still all of the time as is necessary with a booster.
If I could have gotten away without boosters, I would have. We have to fit 5 carseats/boosters in my 7 passenger Sienna. The kids don't fit well in the seats without them yet, though.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

DS just stopped using his booster this week, when I checked how he fit in both the vehicle seatbelts (yup, he fits now) and the HBB (oops, his shoulders are too high and I can't raise the booster anymore.) He's about 4'7", but most of his height is in his torso, not his legs. He's too tall for the turbobooster.


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## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

Son is 6.5 and sits FF in a hbb which he loves. Daughter is 4 years 2 months and sits RF, sometimes FF in a hbb.

Quote:

Cognitive ability associated with the necessary attention span to use a booster correctly does not even begin to develop until at least 4 years old.
This is obviously not correct. When using a high back booster it's important to have a good belt fit. Very small children might therefore not fit well at this age but it's unusual. Being 4 and sitting properly in a booster is not difficult.

Having children sit decently in a high back booster is a questions about basic parenting. There are certainly many parents who let their kids sit poorly in their hbb's. Our experience is that these parents also have large safety problem if using a harnessed FF seat. Harness might be loose, installation poor and unsafe, etc. It's not as easy as getting a harnessed seat and safety will suddenly be perfect.

I have what can only be described as the world's most active 4-year old girl who hates to sit still. Having her sit properly in a hbb has required almost no effort. She knows we sit properly in a car seat, regardless if it's RF or FF, and she follows that advice.

We also know that high back boosters are just as safe as harnessed seats for older kids, 4 and older. The Swedes who are 30 years ahead in car seat safety actually recommend against using any harnessed seats ff for safety reasons. Researchers never focus on harness vs. hbb simply because they know safety is similar.

Swedes move 4-years olds from RF to FF hbb around age 4 and the safety record can only be described as unbelievable.

Personally, I think the law is far from relevant (often also way behind and confusing). One should of course follow the law but exceed it. Parents here could forward face at any age, even at 6 months according to the law. Instead they keep them RF until age 4 or longer.

The law is the absolute minimum and often offer very poor protection for children.


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## Minxie (Apr 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
This is obviously not correct. When using a high back booster it's important to have a good belt fit. Very small children might therefore not fit well at this age but it's unusual. Being 4 and sitting properly in a booster is not difficult...

...I have what can only be described as the world's most active 4-year old girl who hates to sit still. Having her sit properly in a hbb has required almost no effort. She knows we sit properly in a car seat, regardless if it's RF or FF, and she follows that advice.

I have a very active 4.5 yr old son who sits properly in his harnessed seat (Britax Frontier) and probably would sit properly in a HBB except for when he wouldn't.







Kids are kids and will bend down to pick up something they drop in the car, or will fall asleep or will wiggle or...or...or... They are children and aren't always going to sit _absolutely properly_ all the time.

Keeping my son in his harness is for the *one* freak time when he is not sitting _absolutely perfectly_ *and* we have a crash; his life is worth way more to me than...well, anything. If he's alive, we can work through potential teasing by his friends. If he's alive, we can have his bones mended. If he's alive, he can learn to sit properly in a HBB.

I think your assertion that this is poor parenting is offensive and a cop-out, to be frank. You will never convince me that a HBB is as safe as a harnessed seat; NEVER. There are just too many variables involved with a HBB that can be eliminated with a harness so why wouldn't you?


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
Having children sit decently in a high back booster is a questions about basic parenting. There are certainly many parents who let their kids sit poorly in their hbb's. Our experience is that these parents also have large safety problem if using a harnessed FF seat. Harness might be loose, installation poor and unsafe, etc. It's not as easy as getting a harnessed seat and safety will suddenly be perfect.

I have what can only be described as the world's most active 4-year old girl who hates to sit still. Having her sit properly in a hbb has required almost no effort. She knows we sit properly in a car seat, regardless if it's RF or FF, and she follows that advice.

I find this very judgemental. I know of many children who are wonderfully parented and are wonderful to be around who just don't have the consistent impulse control to sit in a HBB at age 4. At 4, my children (intellectually gifted and calm and centered) were still falling asleep in the van. My daughter is 6 and finally hit 40 pounds. In almost any HBB (few exceptions), she would submarine under the seatbelt due to her size and shape.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
We also know that high back boosters are just as safe as harnessed seats for older kids, 4 and older. The Swedes who are 30 years ahead in car seat safety actually recommend against using any harnessed seats ff for safety reasons. Researchers never focus on harness vs. hbb simply because they know safety is similar.

Actually, we don't know this. There are not studies showing this. We don't know either way. Stating that researchers don't focus on something because they already know it is not true. That would be extremely poor science. Research is not conducted when it isn't funded. Again, I ask you to provide the study, evidence, something, and I will gladly read it and check out the science behind it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
Swedes move 4-years olds from RF to FF hbb around age 4 and the safety record can only be described as unbelievable.

Correlation does not guarantee causation.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
Personally, I think the law is far from relevant (often also way behind and confusing). One should of course follow the law but exceed it. Parents here could forward face at any age, even at 6 months according to the law. Instead they keep them RF until age 4 or longer.

The law is the absolute minimum and often offer very poor protection for children.

I agree with this. Best practice is much more important than legal minimums.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 

Having children sit decently in a high back booster is a questions about basic parenting. There are certainly many parents who let their kids sit poorly in their hbb's. Our experience is that these parents also have large safety problem if using a harnessed FF seat. Harness might be loose, installation poor and unsafe, etc. It's not as easy as getting a harnessed seat and safety will suddenly be perfect.


Look, this is just patently untrue. I have a 5 year old who still regularly falls asleep in the car - it's not a parenting issue that he might fall asleep and slump over and not be position correctly in a high back booster (also sort of irrelevant as he isn't 40 lbs yet and can't use most boosters based on that fact alone, but his height and weight isn't related to his ability to stay awake in the car). Are there some four year olds that can sit correctly in a booster most of the time? Sure - my daughter outgrew her harnessed seat by weight and height well before 4 years old (she was an still is a tall child, and we couldn't afford a higher weight harnessed seat) and we switched her to a high back booster. We've never had a problem with her sitting correctly in the seat. But saying a four year old who won't sit still in the car or unfastens their seatbelt or falls asleep or drops a toy and impulsively bends over to grab it does so because their parent has a problem with "basic parenting" is not only untrue, but insulting.


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## aslmere (Feb 16, 2003)

My 7 yr old is in a 5 pt harness and will be for as long as I can afford to keep him in one regardless of his weight or height.

BUT Fwiw he isn't neurotypical


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

My 20 year old sister still uses a booster to drive. She doesn't pass the 5 step in most vehicle seats. I don't think she rides in a booster because she's too embarrassed but she drives with one. I'm the most lax person I know WRT seatbelts/carseats, etc. My 6 yo dd and my 3.5 yo ds are in high back boosters. I'll agree that 3.5 is way young for most kids to be in a booster. When we will be in the car for trips longer than an hour I borrow a seat and harness him, but for trips less than that he sits 100%. The main reason I'd borrow that seat is because the only time we drive for more than an hour would be to go to the beach 4 hours away and we leave at night. He'll fall asleep. My 1 yo dd is still RF and will until she hits 35 lbs (she's 26 now, so we've got a ways). Once she out grows that, she'll be in a hbb. I'm 5'7 and can't get the seatbelt to properly position across my chest. I've got huge knockers.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
Having children sit decently in a high back booster is a questions about basic parenting. There are certainly many parents who let their kids sit poorly in their hbb's. Our experience is that these parents also have large safety problem if using a harnessed FF seat.

Wow, that's pretty judgmental. I have a 5 year old who cannot sit decently in a booster, and I can assure you I know how to install her harnessed seat (which, BTW, is RF, but I digress). I do not "let her" sit poorly in her booster. She is simply not mature enough to not wriggle around. I suspect she'll be ready by around 6, which is very average in terms of booster readiness. No child under four is ever ready for a booster, ever, regardless of height or weight or 'cognitive ability'.


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Sometime after puberty. As I wrote upthread, developed (internal/skeletal, not external/curvy) hips help hold the lap belt where it needs to be during a crash. I would allow my child to ride without a booster a few years after puberty. Otherwise, I would let her use the funky zebra-striped or pink leopard backless after age 10 or so.

ETA: I realize some people will find this excessive. That's okay. THIS is my parenting hill-to-die-on. I let her buy school lunch when she wants (ours is better than many, but it's still not like what I'd make at home). She gets computer time nearly every day. But she *will* ride in a booster for years to come.

I really like this. I feel the same way and you just helped make it clear to me.
By the way, do backless booster expire as well?


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Ds rode in a booster until 8 1/2. At 8 1/2 he passed the 5 step test, even though he was only 4'7". His height is in his torso, and our car is on the small side so his feet hit the floor. He had outgrown the booster. He actually was a little sad because he liked how the booster let him see better.

Dd is only 6 1/2, but will be in a booster for a good number of years. She's only 4'1" and I can't see her hitting 4'9" in the next 2-3 years. She's long in the torso like her brother, but not as tall.

Actually, ds is in the 92% for height and he just hit 4'9" this month! So, if my tall 9 1/2 year old is just 4'9" that tells me that most 9-10 year olds should be riding in a booster.


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