# What is wrong with reward charts?



## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

This is kind of a spin off from the Nanny 911 thread in the TV forum. I'm perplexed, what is not gentle about reward charts? I always wanted my parents to do stuff like that when I was a kid, so I don't understand why they are 'bad'?


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

IMO, rewards make children do things for rewards, not out of an inner propulsion to do them. I want my dd to want to do something, not just do it because she'll get a candy (which she would refuse, anyway) or whatever (a sticker?). I'm sure someone will be much more eloquent than I. I'm feeling too barfy for eloquence.


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

LOL well, I hope you feel better ParisMaman.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

Here is some more info about praise and rewards

http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/tcags.htm

http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/gj.htm


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## peaceful herbivore (Mar 17, 2005)

This is the best article so far I have found which explains my position on this topic. It is worth the read in my opinion:

http://www.naturalchild.org/robin_gr...ds_praise.html

Actually, this site in general has been a great resource for me. (www.naturalchild.org)

I would be interested in knowing what you think of it (the article).


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## AmandaBL (Aug 3, 2004)

I very much enjoyed that article. This is also something I've had a hard time understanding & that cleared up some of my confusion. I use a "reward chart" for morning duties for my 6 yr old. I really just use it as a checklist so he can remember to do all the things he neds to in the morning. (brush teeth, pack back pack...) I just don't know how to get a kid to do these things"for the joy" of doing them. suggestions?


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## peaceful herbivore (Mar 17, 2005)

To my understanding, it is not neccessarily *for the joy* of doing something that matters most. Understandably, there will be things no one is particularly excited, happy, or skipping to do. Personally, I hate doing dishes. I imagine though, if I were given a round of applause or rewards or gifts, etc when it was one of my chores as a child/teenager, it would be even HARDER for me to do them now as an adult when the incentive and reward goes away.

*I really just use it as a checklist so he can remember to do all the things he needs to do in the morning*

If that is true, I honestly don't see anything wrong with that. If he sees the actual checkmarks as a reward, then consider yourself lucky! After all, he will probably grow up to be one of these people who make lists and feel great satisfaction when they check something off, and that is not a bad thing is it?! In other words, I don't feel checking something off on a list is a reward neccessarily because that is more personal satisfaction of getting a task accomplished rather than being rewarded JUST for doing it.


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

I use rewards for myself sometimes. If I get a lot of stuff on my list accomplished for the week, I'll reward myself with a night out with friends,or a tiny splurge at Whole Foods, that kind of thing.

I've never done a reward "chart" for my dd, tho. I could see external motivation being a great thing. I use it sometimes without the "chart" part. She's been into Star Wars this week... so I kept reminding her that if her whining/screaming/tantruming didn't stop, no movie. That simple. We DON'T get rewarded for treating others like crap. It did work, actually. I think a reward chart can help teach LONG TERM consequences to children maybe ages five and up. I think it's a better way to teach a consequence than, say, have your child suffer the "natural" consequences of not brushing their teeth (ie, extensive dental work in the future when it's too late to reverse the effects.)

Just my .02!


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

I use a credit system at my house for my older three kids. The kids earn credits for various things such as behavior and chores. The kids then use their credits for things they want to do. They turn in the credits for various activities they want to do. They can use their credits to earn mystery dates or fun dates. So far I haven't seen the what's in it for me attitude directly from them, maybe they think that but don't say it. They love the credit system (especially my seven yr. old who loves numbers and math) and actually try to see who can get the most points at the end of the day. This system has worked really well in our house. The kids are ultimately responsible for whether they get to do things or not because they don't lose points for misbehavior. It has helped my kids get along better with each other and me. Their talking back has decreased enormously and they are improving with listening the first time they are asked.
My three year old uses a sticker chart for things like brushing his teeth and putting his clothes in the laundry. He absolutely loves getting his stickers and doesn't want anyone to help him at all because he wants to earn his stickers.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

I think reward charts are another tool in the parenting handbag that can be used or abused, depending on the circumstances. I really see nothing wrong with them if they are used judiciously and not as the sole motivator of behavior. And I think they can be especially useful for little kids, who oftentimes can't see any intrinsic benefit to taking care of their responsibilities because of limited life experience and an inability to see "the big picture." My kids are 2 and 3 and there are plenty of times that their internal motivation is not enough to get the job done. Sometimes a reward (whether in the form of of chart or just something impromptu) helps them do what they need to do so they can get to the point where they see there is a more internal or personal benefit for them.

Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with kids wanting their accomplishments to be recognized occasionally. I know that I like it when my husband takes note of something I have done; my kids are no different, and I don't think this is some sort of reward-junky behavior that has been bred into us. I think it's human nature.

An example of our use of a reward chart:

When my son came home from Ethiopia in November, my daughter, who had been using the potty for a whole year prior to that time, completely stopped. She would pee on herself or poop in her pants 8-10 times a day. For several weeks we said nothing, just supported her and helped her change her clothes. After about 4 or 5 weeks of this, we started getting worn down (she wouldn't wear a diaper, but she wouldn't go in the potty, either) and I created a sticker chart for her. I put 10 spaces on it and told her that when she got 10 stickers for ten successful trips to the potty, I would take her out for ice cream. It took her about one week to go to the potty 10 times. I took her out for ice cream and started a new chart, this time with 20 spaces. It took her about one week to go to the potty 20 times, and she got ice cream again. After that she didn't want the chart any more, and things have improved steadily. She goes to the potty about 95% of the time now.

I think that the reward chart helped my daughter get back on track with going in the potty, and I also think it gave her something tangible to link with her going in the potty. She was able to look at her chart and see tangible proof that she was accomplishing something, and she was able to show it to her Dad so that he could share in her accomplishments even though he was gone during the day. He was able to tell her, "I see you got two stickers on your chart today. Did you go to the potty two times?" and she would get all excited and tell him about it. At the time she was two, and I honestly don't think that the internal stuff was concrete enough for her at the time, when her emotions were running high and at her developmental stage.

It puzzles me when people slam the door on certain parenting tools as a matter of principle. I think that there is a time and a place for lots of different approaches in parenting, and I try to leave as much room as possible for various parenting tools in my bag.

Namaste!


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## Deja (Feb 22, 2005)

IMO, there is nothing wrong with reward charts and there is a lot that is 'right' about them. They give children a visual, they heighten awareness and they assist in transitioning from external motivation to internal motivation, IMO.


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peaceful herbivore*
*I really just use it as a checklist so he can remember to do all the things he needs to do in the morning*

If that is true, I honestly don't see anything wrong with that. If he sees the actual checkmarks as a reward, then consider yourself lucky! After all, he will probably grow up to be one of these people who make lists and feel great satisfaction when they check something off, and that is not a bad thing is it?!

Well, that's me! My mother used to make me charts with daily activities (bath, brush teeth, make bed, etc.) No rewards, but the reward for me was that I got to check off all the things I had done. I loved seeing that nice, complete row of checkmarks as a child. And what do you know? I am now a list-maker. Maybe there is a connection. Nope, not a bad thing at all IMO.


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

I'm a complete listmaker too and LOVE having a list completely checked off. Dosen't happen much but I like to do it anyways. I am reading the article now....


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

I'm a complete listmaker too and LOVE having a list completely checked off. Dosen't happen much but I like to do it anyways. I am reading the article now....


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## Gabesgrrrl (Nov 28, 2004)

Hi all...Just wanted to add my 2 cents. I have a very loving, though very willful 31/2 yr. old. He went through a period of time, when he was being a hair short of cruel-to the dog, to me, to anything that had a pulse. I recognized this as a need for more structure, which I sadly lack in, and for more skin time.

I created a chart, with lots of things he already did on a daily basis, and a couple behavioral changes that he needed to make. I also wore him in the sling for a bit a few days in a row, so that he got some extra one on one time...He quite literally thrived in that period of time, and it greatly limited the amount of toy taking away, time outs, and talks that needed to be administered. I found that he often forgot that the reward (which was a new hotwheels racecar) was a perk at the end of the week. He often remembered after the praises for his good behavior.

He was only charted for those things for 2 weeks, one week he attained his goal, and one week he didn't. I did, however, see a big change in those behaviours, and it's been a couple months.

I've been considering another chart for a separate issue, which I may do beginning of next week.

I think it's important to remember that discipline, no matter how gentle, usually does highlight the wrong things that are being done. I feel that praise is a powerful antidote to this, and I'm happy with the conscience my son has developed and exercises....at least for the most part...lol










Just my two cents


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## rgarlough (Jul 18, 2002)

When dh and his 2 kids (then 5 and 7) first moved in with me, I made a chart of 'expectations' that I used to guide them in the right direction. I was tired of the nagging parent syndrome and needed something for the kids to refer to for the basics, like brush teeth, pick up wet towels, shoes off at the door, etc.

I found a website that directed me toward age appropriate chores and make a checklist. On the checklist were all the 'expectations' that both kids were required to do. These were all age appropriate, learned chores that both kids agreed they could handle. The checklist was a great tool that helped the kids get into a pattern of behaviors and eventually made habits. Dh or I would just have to ask "Did you complete your checklist for the day?" and the kids self-regulated their behaviors. No nagging.

I also included 'bonus' chores that were above their age appropriateness at the time but gave them some additional 'warm fuzzies' when they accomplished them. With the bonus chores, the kids earned a few quarters which to them were HUGE incentives.

Now that the kids are older, the expections are just that. I don't usually need to remind them anymore because they have become habits. I also strongly believe that dh and I need to WALK THE WALK before the kids follow suit. If mom and dad don't make their bed in the morning, why do I have to? As a result, we always complete our 'chores' to provide a good example for the kids.

Here are a few websites that give examples of age appropriate chores. Our expectations started with the self-help items and ended with helping with household duties.

http://www.workingmom.com/age-guidelines.htm
http://www.diynet.com/diy/lv_househo...826458,00.html
http://www.myparentime.com/articles/article8d.shtml


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I just don't like the concept of reward charts. Heck, I don't get any stickers for cleaning poopy diapers. But then again, I also don't believe in "chores" for kids. You make a mess, you clean it up. If I ask you for help with something, it would be nice if you said "yes" unless you have a reason. Or maybe once in a while you just don't feel like it. I just don't believe that kids need to have chores. And I don't believe that behaviours should be assigned a material value. Heck, we all have bad days, why should I lose out on point/credits/stickers for being human? So with no "chores" and a no-punishment discipline system, I just don't have a need for rewards.

But, like all things, some people can figure out ways to incorporate the concept into solutions that work for their family. So I'm not saying anyone who uses them is awful either.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

We use reward charts at the preschool where I work. In fact we just started using them about 2 months ago. I LOVE them! We were having serious aggression problems, and behavior overall, and the charts have really helped improve that. I consider it a form of conditioning. They are praised daily, and weekly for kindness, manners, behavior, etc. We are reminding them to use positive behavior and why, what it does for us, their friends. We also use it as a starting point. Yes, it gives incentive for good behavior, but along the way these things will become more natural for the children and we will sue the chart less frequently, proven to work...just ask my psychology professor who gave me the idea


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*
I just don't like the concept of reward charts. Heck, I don't get any stickers for cleaning poopy diapers. But then again, I also don't believe in "chores" for kids. You make a mess, you clean it up. If I ask you for help with something, it would be nice if you said "yes" unless you have a reason. Or maybe once in a while you just don't feel like it. I just don't believe that kids need to have chores. And I don't believe that behaviours should be assigned a material value. Heck, we all have bad days, why should I lose out on point/credits/stickers for being human? So with no "chores" and a no-punishment discipline system, I just don't have a need for rewards.

I think you've got the wrong idea, though, about one of the purposes of reward charts. I think we all know that if a child really doesn't want to do something, then no one can make her or him do it. But how about the kids who are willing to do something, but need some sort of tangible memory jog or incentive to help the behavior become routine? Don't adults do that all the time? Don't we set weight-loss goals or stop-smoking goals or spend-less-money goals and then reward ourselves when we meet our goals? How can a two-year-old reward herself for meeting a goal? She really can't, but Momma and Daddy rewarding her serves the same purpose at that age. I mean, geez, life would be super-bleak if I never got a reward for a job well done!

Namaste!


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## HaveWool~Will Felt (Apr 26, 2004)

I strongly believe in reward charts, chores, allowence, etc....
I have 3 foster boys and 2 birth boys.
2 of my foster boys are ADHD and one of my birth boys is ADD...
CHARTS WORK FOR OUR FAMILY.
We are busy, busy, busy....we all seem to be going in all directions during the week....so charts work for us.
They really help my 6 year old who is ADD (boarderline). When he can see something, instead of being asked or told...he does it sooner, completely and he is joyful while doing it. It makes everyones life easier.
My 3 foster boys are 16, 17 & just turned 18.
They need something that is an incentive....especially boys.
I have 5 of them....they all work better with some kind of reward.
Who wouldn't.....


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## KellyB (Jun 15, 2006)

My day is comprised of an intricate reward system that motivates me to do what i need to do.
For example, I start a pot of coffee first thing in the morning, and while the coffee's brewing, I wash the dishes.
When the dishes are done I'm looking at a fresh pot of coffee.
I also really get a kick out of looking at a completely checked off list.
I'll probably do a star system for my ds when he's at that age.
I see stars as shiny checkmarks that symbolize accomplishment, and it's what the stars symbolizes that is the source of pride.
Over-praise is a whole 'nother creature, and one I can see being problematic. A lot of people are "compliment addicts", and I'd hate to create that in my son...by too much or too little praise.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

I have used reward charts, or variations, with myself as a grown adult. Out of internal motivation to do something I've been having trouble doing.









I agree with dharmamama that they can be used or abused. And, as with so much in parenting, it _depends on your kids_. Some kids may not benefit, others will benefit greatly.

I love my self-administered rewards for self-motivated activities.

P.s. - Piglet, you can give yourself stars for poopie diapers if you want. :LOL


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

dharma, the way you say it makes sense to me. I guess i have a problem with the concept that kids can't do right just because it's right. i guess I worry about the message that is being sent, like you do good to get rewards. there's alot of work in life that doesnt' give you external rewards, just the satisfaction of knowing you did good. but the things you said made sense, too. as we all agree, it depends on the kid, the family, the situation, etc.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*
I guess i have a problem with the concept that kids can't do right just because it's right. i guess I worry about the message that is being sent, like you do good to get rewards. there's alot of work in life that doesnt' give you external rewards, just the satisfaction of knowing you did good.

Yes, I agree with you on these points. But I think the idea of doing right because it's the right thing to do is awfully abstract for a young child (some adult still struggle with this concept!), and I also think that 99% of what kids do, they do without rewards. When a reward is needed to motivate them, or helps them find their own motivation, I don't really have a problem with that (assuming that parents aren't bribing their kids to do everything they are supposed to do).

Namaste!


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

I hate to admit this, but I told Abi she could have $1 every morning that she wakes up dry.







: She's stayed dry 5 nights in a row so far. Today she didn't ask for the $1 so I didn't offer it to her. I kinda trained her to do bms in the potty the same way, by offering a mini candy bar.







: But it worked.


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