# Cellphones, tech necessary?



## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

A simple question, if your kid is extremely irresponsible about personal possessions, and has struggled with personal organization and school work (skipping school, not doing homework, staying up all night etc., avoiding responsibilities at all costs, addicted to gaming) do you nonetheless, due to the current number of kids with cell phones, get a cell phone for said kid to save him from social ostracization(sp?) He will be starting high school.


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## SchoolmarmDE (Apr 23, 2012)

mumto1 said:


> A simple question, if your kid is extremely irresponsible about personal possessions, and has struggled with personal organization and school work (skipping school, not doing homework, staying up all night etc., avoiding responsibilities at all costs, addicted to gaming) do you nonetheless, due to the current number of kids with cell phones, get a cell phone for said kid to save him from social ostracization(sp?) He will be starting high school.


I would unplug all electronics other than doing homework in front of me.

Some kids have more trouble controlling their impulses than others. This sounds like that, to me.

I took my eldest to a doctor to figure out why he was so listless and fatigued before I figured out he was up on that phone gaming and watching videos all night.

If you decide he needs a phone, the deal is no password lock, you can see it at any time. It is plugged in to charge in your room, every night. No ssnapchat or other invisible apps. No access to money or codes for in game buying. No yik-yak.

The problem is...besides the fact that they can spend a mint, that they are too young to figure out getting into trouble before actually getting there. So someone sends them a naughty picture, and suddenly they have "child pornography" on their phone. Or they get bullied and don't want to tell anyone. Or they bully, not understanding that's what it is.

Kids are completely identified with their phones...it is more important than Steam. On that basis, you may want to get him one. If he's careless, a cheap one, with insurance, and tell him if he makes it through the school year with it intact he may get to trade up. But don't let it lead him into (more) temptation.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

No way, not me. I might cost-share on a phone if there was some significant convenience factor for me (eg. being able to reach him to re-arrange transportation) but no way would I pay outright.

If my kids got cellphones before moving away to where they didn't have a land line, they paid for them themselves. Working and saving, and knowing they would have to do the same all over again if they lost or broke the phone, taught them to be responsible with their possessions. 

Miranda


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## zebra15 (Oct 2, 2009)

Being 14 is not a vaild reason to have a cell phone. My kid, turning 16 this weekend, still doesn't have internet on his phone, only wifi access and he goes to college. Why?? Not because he is irresponsible but because this mommy is cheap! He manages just fine. In fact the ONLY reason he has his own phone is because he is on campus a few nights a week and I don't want him with out a phone those times. Otherwise we would manage with my phone.


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*I have mixed feelings about this*

On the one hand, it may be a practical necessity as neither my husband nor I have a "place of work" that is fixed, so we are sort of unreachable, plus it really seems like that is how people communicate now, on the other side I think I don't want to spend the money for someone who will likely see it as a new distraction, and who isn't really social anyways. Don't want to be the parent who's hard on my kid because I'm unrealistic/out of touch, plus money is very limited here.


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## stormborn (Dec 8, 2001)

If money is limited that's reason enough in my opinion; no need to touch the lack of responsibility with possessions.
At least where we live, a 14 yr old could find enough work opportunities to pay for their own phone if they wanted it badly enough.
Dd15 had a cheapo tracfone starting at 13, but that was mostly for my piece of mind because she goes on out of town camping trips and I wanted her to be able to contact me autonomously if she needed to. Maybe that would be a good compromise to start? This one was about $20 per month and just made calls/texts.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Um, ...i bought my 11yo a a cheap phone, and of course, i dont pay for internet on it...but the phone gets internet wherever there is wifi, and that includes our home wifi network...most universities/schools/museums have public wifi, transit has wifi, many cafes have wifi, and now there is a city installed wifi in many places, as well as a special deal with our provider that gives us wifi hotspots in many places. 

I wouldnt dream of paying the phone company for wifi. I got the cheapest pay as you go phone- we pay $3 a month.

Are we on different planets?

If your child has a phone, they will have wifi, unless you lived 10 years ago. Phones that are not wifi capable are usually more expensive to run than the latest pay as you go models....

Apologies if I misunderstood the general gist of this thread...


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*WFi?*

I don't get your reply as this wasn't even discussed so far. I do not even have a text enabled cell phone (it texts but poorly and impractically) never mind one that does emails, takes pictures etc. But my son however is surrounded by kids who have iPhones and phone only phones I would say, are a rarity rather than the reverse. Why bring up what planet I'm on? I'm just operating on a pretty slender budget. So no, our house is not filled with the latest tech. I don't think a phone (like the other kids have) would be $3/month, I think my 711 flip phone (aka the drug dealer phone) MIGHT come into that price range. I could be wrong. We're already paying $200/month approx. just on a land line (very little long distance), basic cable and internet. We tried to get rid of cable but no can do, they bundle everything. My computer (a big clunker of a desk model) is at least 10 years old as shocking as that may be to you.


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## stormborn (Dec 8, 2001)

That might've been in response to my "just makes calls" comment.....I think the phone has wifi and data but it has a tiny screen (flip style) and therefore isn't appealing for Web browsing or gaming.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

When expressing incredulity about prices, phones and plans, please remember that this is an international community and as such affordability and availability varies. In Canada (where the OP and I live) rates are considerably higher. You have to go with one of the low end providers to find even a basic talk-and-text plan for under $30/month. That'd not necessarily affordable for a young teen.

Miranda


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## stormborn (Dec 8, 2001)

Come to think of it, wifi access to keep costs down varies widely by location as well. We're in the mountains and even cell service is spotty in many places. We chose our provider more by "How far out can we get a signal" than just price.


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## beedub (Dec 15, 2013)

OP, I think it wouldn't hurt your kiddo to have to show a bit of responsibility before getting the luxury of a cell phone. If he doesn't like being the only kid without one, he'll have to step up his game, right? Maybe he'll have to do some chores around the house, keep up on school work for a few months. Sounds like he might need some motivation! But if finances are tight anyway, getting him one just because all the other kids have one isn't a convincing reason to me. Personally, my dd (only 8) is probably equally irresponsible with possessions, but she runs around the neighborhood by herself and I find myself wishing she had one just for my convenience and peace of mind!


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## hillymum (May 15, 2003)

My middle son asked for a cell phone for his birthday, I took it away from him 2 weeks later. A girl sent him a photo which would have been classed as child porn. It was about how responsible he was/wasn't, and how other people could get hi into serious trouble even if he was not doing anything himself. I am also far too aware that is computer savviness is far superior to mine, and he has a tablet for school which could be full of all sorts of hidden apps which I do not stand a chance of finding. I'm one of the people who wishes I had had children decades before computers were in almost every house and 10 yr olds walk around with cell phones.


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## SchoolmarmDE (Apr 23, 2012)

mumto1 said:


> On the one hand, it may be a practical necessity as neither my husband nor I have a "place of work" that is fixed, so we are sort of unreachable, plus it really seems like that is how people communicate now, on the other side I think I don't want to spend the money for someone who will likely see it as a new distraction, and who isn't really social anyways. Don't want to be the parent who's hard on my kid because I'm unrealistic/out of touch, plus money is very limited here.


When my eldest was that age, I didn't get him those competitive trading card games. You know, Magic the gathering, Pokemon, etc. I thought (and still think) that a game that advantages kids who have more money to spend is just wrong. Why not play chess?

And the reason I changed my mind was that not having those cards, at swim meets, at camp, etc. meant that he was locked out, socially, and that was a disservice to him.

I would say that his not being social is an argument in favor of a phone...if you can afford it, and under supervision. Or maybe look into a low end tablet...the ones my youngers have have messaging capability and operate on wifi. Because not being able to relate to the things that interest your age peers can be very painful. Awkward kids in my age group could (and would) recite entire scenes frm Monty Python. They didn't need to make up their own dialog, and they could be funny. Each of my children uses technology in a different way to find and connect with their "tribes" and I'm pleased they can do so. I doubt we will ever see son #3 get any use out of facebook, but when he gets an email that he was tagged he can respond. Son #2 uses group text and his steam account. Everyone has a path.

I don't think there's one right answer. But it's great that you are trying to solve this, for you, at this time.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

This book is why I'd be very careful about phone use. The "rules" are different today. My own kids got phones at 13 when their extra curriculars ramped up. But I collected them at night and they stayed in my room all night to charge. My kids are 20 and 22 now.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28587592-american-girls

Read this, so scary.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

philomom said:


> My own kids got phones at 13 when their extra curriculars ramped up. But I collected them at night and they stayed in my room all night to charge.


Do you think that a teen who is motivated to, say, view porn online or share a naked selfie is only able to do so between 10 pm and 7 am? Because imo removing phones at night does nothing other than increase the likelihood of getting a decent night's sleep. It doesn't interfere with accessing anything on social media or the internet at large.

The issue of online behaviour is a different one. The OP wrote that her ds is a committed gamer who frequently stays up all night, so I assume that he has plenty of unsupervised access to the internet. I feel strongly that restricting access is just pushing any issues underground and giving parents the illusion of control, when in fact what kids need is plenty of discussion and supported/guided experience helping them learn how to behave in the brave new world of social media. In general I tend to support access to social media for teens, because I see it as the only way they can learn skills they will need to navigate this now-crucial part of life.

The question here is not how much potentially unsupervised access to the internet teens should or should not have. It's whether this particular teen should be provided with an expensive mobile device, given that he does is known to be extremely careless with possessions, is not willing or able to contribute to the cost of the device and is displaying very poor levels of responsibility in general.

"Saving him from social ostracization"? No. He has access to a computer. He can run social media apps on his computer. Instagram, Snapchat, Messenger, they all run on Windows or MacOS. He won't have the convenience of instant daytime access, but he can stay attuned to all the messaging that goes on when he's not at school.

Miranda


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Having computers in a central family location and removing phones at night saved us from a lot of spontaneous kids getting into trouble sneaking out of the house at night. I can't tell you how many times I got a frantic Monday morning phone call from another stay at home mom asking if my child had been involved in XYZ. Uh, no they weren't. My children aren't goody-goodies.. they were just "out of the loop".

I didn't specifically mention social media because all those have significantly ramped up since my kids were younger. 

Porn is an entirely different issue. A little is plain old curiosity. A steady diet of it can ruin your outlook and expectations of healthy relationships. I was always very honest with my kids about porn... online and otherwise. The online stuff tends towards the extreme and deviant. It also leaves out the affection and trust that I think is necessary for a terrific sex life.

Kids (girls) as young as nine years old are being asked to give provocative pictures of themselves away online. We need to coach our girls to say "no way!" and we need to insist to our sons that it is not appropriate to ask for these images, trade these images or treat women in such a manner.


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

mumto1 said:


> A simple question, if your kid is extremely irresponsible about personal possessions, and has struggled with personal organization and school work (skipping school, not doing homework, staying up all night etc., avoiding responsibilities at all costs, addicted to gaming) do you nonetheless, due to the current number of kids with cell phones, get a cell phone for said kid to save him from social ostracization(sp?) He will be starting high school.


I would keep the two things separate (being irresponsible and getting a cellphone). First of all, no matter what your ds wants you to believe, a kid who doesn't have a cell phone is not socially ostracisted. He is not entitled to it and you are not saving him from anything if you get one for him. I sense a lot of guilt in your message and I suspect your ds is banking on it. My ds is only 12, but from what I've seen most of his friends his age or older don't have a cellphone and are *very* social.

The only two conditions under which I would consider a cellphone for ds would be 1) I can afford it and 2) he would need it (and I don't consider the "everyone has a phone" argument as needing it). Ds will start getting to places by himself this year, so I plan of giving him my old flip phone with no data plan for a coupleof years. But I think that a real phone would make a great gift when he's a bit older.

I would approach the other issues from another perspective. Not sure that if you promise a phone your ds will "shape up". I see how a kid who spends his nights gaming would have a hard time getting to school. Does he have the tools to get himself organised? Does he have a bedtime? Is the computer in his room? Is he busy during the day and has better things to do than gaming? Does he like going to school? Does he have any friends? I would try to help him with these questions.


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*there are lots of points*

For and against, as expected. My son has issues he's dealing with and they aren't going to resolve overnight. He has a regular regular PC we inherited, it is not in his room. I preferred to have it upstairs but hubby loathed having it upstairs, thus making it harder to track what he's doing. I am planning to remove this computer during the school week, at least until he gets into the routine. He also has an iPad, which if not taken away may end up in bed with him. Basically, given any latitude he historically takes advantage. I seriously considered moving him to our accommodations outside, as he also raids the fridge/pantry all night long too.

I know from personal experience that texting seems to have become one of the sole remaining forms of communication among 20 somethings. If you don't text they don't communicate. I also have a friend (my age) who seems to have moved over to texting, she doesn't answer phones or email as much. I have had clients say they aren't interested in having me work for them if I don't text and the job I have currently, I am the only non texter (which bothers people). Even a few years ago, at one job I had I was kept out of the loop of work happenings because I don't go on twitter, Facebook or text (didn't have a cellphone) and the area I was working in was not equipped with computers (while the rest of the company was). So like it or not, it's the new reality. I really don't like it though, and my son is highly susceptible to easy distractions.


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

I hear you. Some people enjoy electronics and prefer to be constantly "connected". It's everyone's prerogative to choose whatever they see fit for their family. What I'm trying to say is that if it doesn't work for your family you have the power to change it. There can be a balance. There are many things that us, as parents, can do to help our kids find this balance.
My ds would spend the whole day on electronics if he could. A while ago one school break I was home with the kids and couldn't get out of the house as my dd was recovering from surgery. Ds was on his computer games for 10h a day.
There are controls I can't hand over to my kids yet, they are not mature enough to handle them. For now, we do a lot of camping and ds spends time volunteering and with his grandparents in the summer (and he can't take the electronics with him). During the school year he's in a couple of activities which take a lot of his time. He also spends quite a bit of time with his friends, although they might end up at someone's house playing on a computer or tablet, sigh... But as long as i can help it, he will NOT spend hours on end on his electronics. He does not get to choose if he goes camping, or practice for his activities, although if he is unhappy we can negotiate. 
If your ds doesn't have the skills and maturity to take care of his sleeping, eating and gaming habits, I would sit him down and figure out a solution we could be both comfortable with.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

mumto1 said:


> He also has an iPad...
> 
> I know from personal experience that texting seems to have become one of the sole remaining forms of communication among 20 somethings. If you don't text they don't communicate.


He already has an iPad!? If he has that I see no issue: he's got plenty of access to social media _and_ texting. He can use FB Messenger, iMessage and WhatsApp for instant messaging. He can use Snapchat, Vine and Instagram. He can use FB Messenger, Facetime or Skype to make phone calls.

Miranda


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

mumto1 said:


> I don't get your reply as this wasn't even discussed so far. I do not even have a text enabled cell phone (it texts but poorly and impractically) never mind one that does emails, takes pictures etc. But my son however is surrounded by kids who have iPhones and phone only phones I would say, are a rarity rather than the reverse. *Why bring up what planet I'm on*? I'm just operating on a pretty slender budget. So no, our house is not filled with the latest tech. I don't think a phone (like the other kids have) would be $3/month, I think my 711 flip phone (aka the drug dealer phone) MIGHT come into that price range. I could be wrong. We're already paying $200/month approx. just on a land line (very little long distance), basic cable and internet. We tried to get rid of cable but no can do, they bundle everything. My computer (a big clunker of a desk model) is at least 10 years old as shocking as that may be to you.


Re 'what planet are you on..'- sorry, poor choice of words. Clearly different countries/cities have different levels of accessibility. I guess I assumed that prices were going down everywhere in the same way as they are where I live. I also live on a very restricted budget, but my phones (always the bottom of the line/cheapest phones) are always text enabled. 
Have you looked into pay-as -you -go phones? They might offer more affordable choices. 
I wouldn't dream of paying $200 a month. I have home wifi at $40 a month, and our phones are pay as you go-$3 a month....
My laptop is about 10 years old. 
I rarely buy new technology, so I am right with you there.

As for the the bundles- very annoying. I avoided home wifi while they were only offered bundles, but about 3 years ago, they began to offer a pay per month/no contract/just internet fee. Those phone companies have too much power, and where I live, they seem to have less now, which is good for the customer.

Im not sure what those trends are like in different places. Im sorry you cant rid of that expensive and cumbersome bundle. We dont have a landline here. We dont use cable, because we watch everything online.


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*in fact, prices have gone up*

I paid about $16/month for modem internet in the 90's, it came with an email and web hosting, and the speed and customer service was good and local.....Can anyone explain why it's tripled in price? plus they obviously don't offer hosting (can you imagine?)... My phone texts but it's so difficult to use it it's joke, you can do OK or NOW etc.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

contactmaya said:


> I wouldn't dream of paying $200 a month. I have home wifi at $40 a month, and our phones are pay as you go-$3 a month....


I'm in Canada. We have no landline, no cable. Our internet bill (for the slowest speed available, not really fast enough for streaming, but we try) is $68 plus tax, so it totals about $75/month. As for pay-as-you-go phones, there are a few obscure cheap providers where you can get away with as little as $8-10/month, but the rates for phone calls and texts are so high that the phone can only really be used for emergencies. That's not going to work for a teen who is wanting a phone to stay socially connected. A typical bottom-tier prepaid plan with free texting is $30/month plus tax, no data, maybe 100 minutes of phone time per month.

We have no cable, bottom-tier internet, and bottom-tier free unlimited texting phone plans for the five of us. We pay $245/month total. That's in Canadian dollars, so it is more like $190 US. But compared to the US it's really expensive for what we get: low-end minimal everything.

Miranda


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## JudyRodriquez (Sep 2, 2016)

mumto1 said:


> A simple question, if your kid is extremely irresponsible about personal possessions, and has struggled with personal organization and school work (skipping school, not doing homework, staying up all night etc., avoiding responsibilities at all costs, addicted to gaming) do you nonetheless, due to the current number of kids with cell phones, get a cell phone for said kid to save him from social ostracization(sp?) He will be starting high school.


I would allow him but with limitations. I don't want them to feel left out but they have to understand our rules.


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## hillymum (May 15, 2003)

Momto1, it sounds like your child has a serious problem understanding and respecting boundaries and rules. I would concentrate on helping him learn to respect those before worrying about hurt feelings because of a lack of a phone. He sounds like a kid who doesn't understand that no means no, regarding anything.


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## SchoolmarmDE (Apr 23, 2012)

hillymum said:


> Momto1, it sounds like your child has a serious problem understanding and respecting boundaries and rules. I would concentrate on helping him learn to respect those before worrying about hurt feelings because of a lack of a phone. He sounds like a kid who doesn't understand that no means no, regarding anything.


Respectfully, I don't hear a kid with serious problems.i just hear a developmentally appropriate kid.

It is just as natural a part of being a teen to be forgetful and test boundaries as it is natural for a toddler to be defiant and do so. And they just don't forecast risk accurately. So they generally spend time reacting to the world as though it revolves around them, think problems resolve themselves, and have the attention spans of gnats.

Despite this, most of them grow up to be boring adults.

I think she needs to decide how to handle this, because that's still our role, as parents, but I don't see any evidence that she's dealing with anything particularly unusual.


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

I wouldn't consider skipping school, staying up all night and being addicted to gaming as natural or normal teen behaviour.
True, it's part of becoming an adult for many people. But as a parent I would be worried.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

SchoolmarmDE said:


> Respectfully, I don't hear a kid with serious problems.i just hear a developmentally appropriate kid.


There are some other threads about this kid that speak to other issues. School refusal, frequent lying, neglecting basic hygiene, using nudity at home to avoid having to leave his room, stealing food, etc.. School has recommended mental health counselling but he has refused to attend. It's a really tough situation for his parents.

Miranda


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## hillymum (May 15, 2003)

I had no idea of all the other issues so I went and read other posts about this lads behavior. Honestly, if he was my son, I would have his ass at a psych hospital asap. Believe me, I did that to my middle son! He ended up being there for 8 days, and thank God I did it. It was the hardest thing I have ever done, but it worked. 

You do not seem to have any control over your son, and yes, parents should have control over their children. Unless my kids have a temp over 100 they go to school, and they know this. Your son is heading down the wrong path, and you are not helping him turn around. Take him to someone who can help him, and do not make it open for discussion. He's not going to do anything you tell him because you have done nothing to show him he has to respect you. Sometimes being a permissive parent or gentle parent is exactly the wrong thing for a child. Sometimes a child needs someone who will exert authority. 

If you are not willing to take your son for a psychiatric assessment, I do advocate for parenting classes and family counselling. It's great that you have come here for help, but talk isn't enough. Some affirmative action is needed before it is too late. 

I know my words are harsh. I really believe you need to hear them. I hope they actually help!


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*unless you are living my life*

You have no actual idea.


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## Shuli (May 14, 2007)

My oldest two children just turned 9 this summer. When one of them was six he asked me when I would be buying him an iPhone like his grandmother has. My reply:


My job is to clothe you, educate you, feed you and give you a roof over your head. Extra curricular activities are a bonus. Anything else is on you. Grow up, get an education, get a job and you can buy yourself whatever you want. It has motivated him to work harder in school to get a degree, but I see that money is not his only motivation anymore, thank goodness.


In our area you can get simple Nokia phones from decades ago that just take a SIM card, have no internet access, accept and make calls (which you can limit to three numbers and emergency services) and accept texts. You can even get ones that don't accept texts and only accept calls. 


My computer which is also my business tool, sits in the corner of the family room where it is visible to everybody. My kids are only allowed on one site and are only allowed to play certain games off that site. Yes, I am controlling about this, but I really don't care. Some of their more wealthy friends have their own electronics and again, I don't care. I know that I'm not going to be able to "control" the flow of information for very long, but I will try. Unfortunately, I recently had to put a password on my computer because my children were using it without my expressed permission.


I don't have any problem with my children feeling like all their friends are on e-mail and facebook as they get older and my children are not. If someone wants to pass information to my children, they can go through me. They have school in which to talk to their friends and will not be socially cripled by actually having to talk to people rather than emogy them.


I have seen too many children allowed on social media at a young age and then not be able to get a job because the first thing employers do is Google you before they even call you in for an interview these days. Besides, until children are close to mid-20s their brains haven't finished developing yet and there are some cognitive functions that are not fully developed including being able to predict consequences of behaviour.


That's not to say that they can't learn responsibility, but technology comes at a price. My kids have chores around the house and are invovled in giving back to the community and charity projects. They have to be somewhere at a certain time and do a job properly for other people (be it folding laundry, sweeping the floor for the neighbour next door who jsut had a baby).


When my children get to that point of needing to communicate with me while away from home, a smart phone is not the only choice. Teaching them what is acceptable to you and what isn't is also important.


Good luck.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Interestingly just this morning my 13yo's smartphone (which cost $140) saved us $120. For Honours Physics she needs either a graphing calculator ($120) or the Desmos graphing-calc app on a mobile device (free). Guess which we opted for? The phone has also saved us buying a tuner/metronome for her violin and choir practicing. So it has more than paid for itself with respect to device cost. 

With all due respect, shuli, the six years between ages 9 and 15 are a lifetime in terms of development, social needs and technological affinities. It is relatively easy to take a hard line on exposure to technology and social media prior to adolescence. For better or for worse, it is impossible to control exposure as kids grow older, and you will have to decide whether to give your kids guided experience with social media at home or let their first exposure come without your knowledge as their friends pass around phones on the schoolbus sharing memes, posting to Snapchat, showing each other websites, videos and photos. 

Personally I have a much brighter view of the teenaged brain: I do not believe it incapable of seeing consequences of behaviour. While I don't doubt that they're still maturing, my teens have always been incredibly adept at foreseeing consequences, much more so than many adults I know. I think that the habit of involving them in deciding on any limits that are set within the family, and being willing to recalibrate my own ideas based on feedback and evidence from them (i.e. showing some humility and demonstrating how I learn from experience), has helped nurture good decision-making skills in them.

In any case, the thread here was not seeking input about access to the internet and social media: momto1's kid already has that. She was seeking input about adding a cellphone to the mix for its portability, simple text-messaging and daytime connectivity.

My main issue with the cellphone in this instance is that it sounds to me like there are important lessons about pulling one's weight within family and community, and taking responsibility for one's own actions, that haven't been adequately learned. Since my kids have always contributed to the cost of their cellphones I see this as an opportunity for momto1's ds to begin to step up and take some responsibility for doing the same. Especially as it's a relatively unaffordable proposition for the parents to carry on their own. I think that in the medium-to-long term, irresponsibility and selfishness are likely to do more harm to a teen's social life than the lack of a cellphone will.

ETA: Old flip-phones don't actually work in my area, because we only have 3G and LTE service. The oldest phones aren't equipped for those bands. Also, my village is now down to a grand total of two payphones. Getting by without a cellphone is getting harder and harder.

Miranda


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## hillymum (May 15, 2003)

moominmamma, I am surprised your child's school allows mobile phones to be on in the classroom. Is it just for that class? Most schools have it in their code of conduct that phones are not allowed, even if mobile devices, such as tablets, are. Both my older children are actually penalized if they do not have a tablet, which really grates on my nerves.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Both high schools my kids have attended are implementing a BYOD (bring your own device) policy. Here is what my daughter's current school states:



> At LVR we are transitioning to a handheld
> device policy that offers flexibility for teachers and students, but with the understanding that use is at
> the teachers' discretion. Teachers may employ the stoplight policy, and with repeated offences, remove
> the technology from the student until a discussion after class. Repeat offenses may result in
> ...


Edited to add that we live in a not-very-well-off area and there's no way a requirement for a tablet would fly. There are kids growing up in our area without indoor plumbing. The school has a few devices to loan, whether tablets or graphing calculators or laptops, but if some kids have cellphones for whatever reason (in our family it's because we don't have a land line) then they can use the loaners go to the kids who can't afford to BYOD. Almost no one here would have both a tablet and a cellphone.

Miranda


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## lauren (Nov 20, 2001)

moominmamma said:


> Both high schools my kids have attended are implementing a BYOD (bring your own device) policy. Here is what my daughter's current school states:.
> 
> Miranda


This is the policy our school district has adopted as well and it seems to work alright. In some ways I think schools are trying to save money, knowing that most teens are already walking around with 'computers' (phones) in their pockets! I have wondered what it feels like to the kid that doesn't have a smartphone when the teacher allows them to do research on their phones in class, which is how they use it.

They used to have a basket at the doorway for phones, but more and more the school realized they were not maximizing the advantage of all those 'computers!'


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## lauren (Nov 20, 2001)

moominmamma said:


> Personally I have a much brighter view of the teenaged brain: I do not believe it incapable of seeing consequences of behaviour. While I don't doubt that they're still maturing, my teens have always been incredibly adept at foreseeing consequences, much more so than many adults I know. I think that the habit of involving them in deciding on any limits that are set within the family, and being willing to recalibrate my own ideas based on feedback and evidence from them (i.e. showing some humility and demonstrating how I learn from experience), has helped nurture good decision-making skills in them.
> 
> Miranda


I really like this description, especially the part about recalibrating one's ideas and approaches. That is the way we have made it through two adolescents so far and it seems to me to be the most effective approach. It is more work though and involves adults who are willing to be self reflective and thoughtful. Also, if a parent hadn't already established that type of relationship from the get-go, I'm sure it would be harder to get to that point. But with the help of a good family therapist it would be possible.


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*I've been puzzling about whether*

This was directed at me? It is not because I don't have a relationship with my child that I THINK he has a hard time taking care of things. My question was rather, knowing that your child does, is it nonetheless such a social necessity that that point becomes moot.

My son has definitely been thinking about what he might do in the future, where he might be but is struggling in the present moment. My son loses things that are hard to comprehend like one boot on a class trip, he dumps open containers of food into his bags and will let fruit rot onto his possessions, he will refuse to wear a coat even when he knows or has been told the weather will change and he suffers because of it, he will refuse to return school library books (I think we had books for nearly a year) because it will take time out of his day and he refused to put a lock on his locker through grades 7 and 8 because he believed he could not use the lock, he has lost home door keys and a locker lock key when my husband gave him a key lock for his locker as a possible solution to a combo lock and he's still struggling to tie his shoes. My kid is not a dumb kid when it comes to discussions about historical events, he has a vocabulary that is crazy and can fling off some real zingers when it comes to retorts even if they aren't very factually based, he even had a small job at a store in grade 7 (which involved handling cash and being fed so he was happy). My kid is like the proverbial idiot savant, he believes he knows everything already and he just stops listening to anything anyone tells him plus a lot of his focus is being challenging and oppositional and saving energy (or so he believes) often by racing ahead. And yes, I put him on a waiting list for an assessment at a children's mental health facility but their waiting list was enormous (so I'm still waiting). None of this is entirely outside of my personal experience, however, if people are wondering why I haven't just dropped him off at some mental health centre and run away, plus he is still a CHILD.


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## lauren (Nov 20, 2001)

Have you looked into, or considered the possibility of an autism spectrum disorder? The more you say about your son, the more it sounds as though this could be a possibility. You might get a better assessment at a clinic that specializes in autism spectrum disorders, as opposed to the general children's mental health clinic. If you were able to understand his issues better you would have an easier time trying to figure out how to help him and make good choices for him.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

lauren said:


> Have you looked into, or considered the possibility of an autism spectrum disorder? The more you say about your son, the more it sounds as though this could be a possibility. You might get a better assessment at a clinic that specializes in autism spectrum disorders, as opposed to the general children's mental health clinic. If you were able to understand his issues better you would have an easier time trying to figure out how to help him and make good choices for him.


Much as one wants to resist the temptation to armchair diagnosis, I think this is a very good suggestion of something to consider and an approach to take.

Miranda


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## minkleaf (Nov 7, 2009)

I regret purchasing a smart phone (cheapest I could find) for my 12 year old at her last birthday. She wanted it for the usual reasons, I got it so she could keep in touch more easily with friends (we homeschool). But a minority of the time is spent in communication. Most is spent on youtube.And she went from reading several books a week to only a few the whole year. 

With the OP's kid it's a tough call. I would lean towards no. Or maybe an inexpensive phone with the clear understanding beforehand that if it gets misused or lost, there it will be permanently removed from his possession or not replaced.


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## Linda Liulo (Sep 15, 2016)

SchoolmarmDE said:


> I would unplug all electronics other than doing homework in front of me.
> 
> Some kids have more trouble controlling their impulses than others. This sounds like that, to me.
> 
> ...


Agree!


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## MommyJen314 (Oct 8, 2016)

My step daughter has an iPad, despite most of her friends having cell phones, I just don't see the need. She's almost 11. When she gets to a point where A. She's way more responsible B. She careful C. She is away from our home more often, I might think of it. She does have a pay as you go phone but she never uses it. A good option at a younger age because they're not expensive and aren't fancy. Not a lot to do but call people. She's already in her iPad too much. A pay as you go is good because they're not fun to play on therefore won't be distracting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## linda233 (Oct 17, 2016)

I am ok with my teenage daughter using the phone. They need it. But I am so much tensed when my 8 yr old son uses it because , you know the kind of things on the internet. I prefer him using our laptop than his smartphone.


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## Teambirths (Dec 15, 2016)

Our oldest,13, has a cheap flip phone. When and if he raises money for a smart phone he can choose to buy one.


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## Timna (Jan 12, 2017)

I think it depends a lot on where you live. If you live at the countryside and/or in a small village a cellphone is not really necessary. However in a big city I think you need it even at a younger age.
In a village most of the time you know the other inhabitants and you help each other out - that's not always the case in big cities.
For tech knowledge some computer or smartphone time is okay I guess


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## ChristineAL (Jan 19, 2017)

My son (13) has a AT&T Cingular Flip phone. Just enough of a phone to call us or get help, but not another screen to stare at all day. Plus it is more durable than a smart phone, which is good as he's dropped it many many times!


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## MurphyQueen (Feb 3, 2017)

I think it is important for the kid to have a phone in case of an emergency, so he can call if something happens. But I don't think that he or she should have the latests gadgets. The only way I'm allowing my kids to have a smartphone is if they make money themselves during summer!

Why the hell should I spend money on it?


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

MurphyQueen said:


> The only way I'm allowing my kids to have a smartphone is if they make money themselves during summer!
> 
> Why the hell should I spend money on it?


There's not all that much price difference. I just priced out unlocked phones at Walmart online out of curiosity and non-smartphones start at about $16, with the average about $25-35. The cheapest smartphones start at about $32, with lots in the $50-60 range.

My kids have bought their own smartphones, but I see some pretty good reasons to opt for them over flip-phones even if it's parental cash funding the purchase. Unlimited texting is pretty standard on cheap plans, while talk minutes tend to be limited ... so anything that makes texting easier is probably going to reduce use of phone minutes and end up being cheaper. In addition, smartphones give access to GoogleMaps, which make for much more safe, efficient and secure independent travel. For my kids this has been a godsend: they never get lost, they know exactly when to get to a stop to catch a bus, they can plot the shortest most efficient route that minimizes wandering, waiting and backtracking, all of which keeps them safer.

Miranda


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