# Constipation/pooping woes w/potty learning aged children



## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

I see on another thread there are others able to commiserate with this? Anyone else want to share stories and maybe find things to help?

In the past couple of months my 3 yo dd has developed a pooping phobia-more than likely caused by a bout of constipation. Now she's not exactly constipated, but she is holding it and I think her fear of it is also linked to it being icky in her diapers. I know the fear will improve once that ends. But she is absolutely terrified of doing it on the potty and thinks it's absolutely impossible, no matter how much she reads and hears to the contrary. I don't push her, but since I do think she would feel better about it once she stops going on herself I'm taking a couple of steps to help her over the hurdle. Today she had her first chiropractic adjustment and there was a lot of blockage going on in that area of her spine, so getting that to move has to be a good thing. I'm always trying to introduce water packed fruits and veggies, unfortunately, she's extremely picky and that's a major challenge.

I think about her issue in terms of the chakras, and as it's her root chakra that's impacted I wonder about her feeling of connectedness with her tribe. She's our second child, and prior to her we were very "only child" oriented. This is an interesting link about that concept:

http://www.catalystmagazine.net/issu....cfm?story=819

Anyway, anyone else?


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

hi mata! it might have been me you read on another thread about this







I'm not happy for you, but glad to know I'm not alone! ds is almost 4 now and he swears he CANNOT poop on the potty (his emphasis). we started with constipation and painful bm's, which resulting in retaining, which produced severe and chronic constipation, which resulted in him passing absolutely nothing for 2 weeks at a time multiple times. I tried it all-- more water, more fruit, more juice (what kid doesn't like juice??? oh, yeah, MINE!







), prune juice (although I really could have slugged the "my kids don't have this problem" person who suggested in seriousness that I try to get a 3 y.o. to drink prune juice







: ), fiber supplements, etc etc. brown sugar worked once, but not completely, then after that he wouldn't touch it because he knew I was vested in getting him to eat it. sugar!! it was insane. and forget trying to get otc laxatives in him. I ended up wearing milk of magnesia and castor oil (another great suggestion from someone with no kids). so, realizing what the heck, he's already laxative dependent, I searched and finally found the right info (for us) online. if you get into this level of chronic constipation with a child of any age, their bowel has stretched out and their nerve endings in the rectum have lost their sensitivity. all the natural remedies (if the child will even eat them, which is usually a major battle in this age group!) won't really relieve it, which causes it to perpetuate. I made this mistake for about a year. if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have waited so long to get really aggressive treating it, and he might be poop-trained by now, although maybe not. (he's been out of diapers for some time.) but anyway, basically if you get into what I have gotten into, you have to keep the poop so soft that it cannot be retained, for a minimum of 3-6 months, often for a year or longer. this is to allow the bowel to regain its normal shape and the nerve endings to recover their sensitivity. I found a prescription laxative that has been studied for use long-term in children (I actually found the safety study, surprisingly enough). I was satisfied with the safety results and also with the fact that it dissolves in any beverage, unlike anything else which I can't hide in anything. he's been on this stuff (miralax, glycolax is the generic name) since april, I think. it's a far cry from crunchy







: but as long as he doesn't miss a dose he doesn't get completely blocked anymore. he also is no longer afraid of pooping. but, with all the stress around the topic, this has become a battleground and we're not out of that phase yet







: I don't think he understands his signals, and he definitely doesn't understand that it's important that he let it out. he still tries to keep from pooping pretty much every time, he just can't hold it in. I think we're getting more into a phase where he just doesn't want to stop what he's doing to go. he has had some successes going to the potty, so I should focus on that and know that he will get there, but it's soooo frustrating! and I lose my temper a lot, way too much









anyway, this has gotten pretty rambly







I should probably stop while I'm behind!







hope some of it is useful, or at least comforting!


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

Hi Julia-I did see you on the other thread and really felt for you two! I've never dealt with these issues before, and they can be really, really stressful, can't they? You just hate to see them go through that. I hope things keep getting better for your ds-you've sure been down a long road with everything he's gone through. I'm not super worried about dd yet-her longest stretch w/out going is 3 days, and she usually goes every other day, and her stool isn't hard when she does go-but she does cry and freak out. I'll talk to the doctor at her 3 year check about it. Hopefully there's nothing physically causing her pain. Thanks for the feedback-it's a relief to talk about it-you know how it is when there's something up with them and it's on your mind.


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

This is my tribe! My 3.5 year old son has had pooping woes on-and-off for much of his life.

In his case, what comes out is rarely hard or painful. He's just really really good at keeping it in. In the best of times, he poops every other day. In the worst of times, he can go 5-7 days. This alone wouldn't be a problem--I really do consider it his business--but his behavior gets so atrocious as he's desperately trying not to poop. He can't concentrate, tries to hit and bite, whines, squirms, makes it hard for anyone around to think of anything besides his impending poop. This behavior can go on for hours, even days.

So now I'm trying to focus more on the pre-poop disruptive behavior. I actually booked an appointment with his pediatrician just for her to talk to my son about digestive health, and she gave him a letter with a few points to remember (e.g., push when your body tells you to push). This worked for a few weeks, but it's gotten bad again. I have to remind myself daily that it is his job to poop. I cannot poop for him.

We also use the prescription laxative regularly. It does work, although I often have to tinker with the dosage to get it just right. Too little and there's no effect, too much and the urge to poop is so overwhelming that his behavior gets even worse.

I really don't care when he decides to put it in the toilet, although he's saying he's going to start both peeing and pooping on his half-birthday, next month. I'll gently encourage the pee but he can take the lead on the poop.

Goddessjulia, I'm so with you on feeling a bit peeved by advice from people who don't have a clue how serious it is. Every time I see a certain mom, she has another tip for me. Last time, she insisted that if I bought a certain brand of whole-wheat cracker everything would clear right up. I looked at my son, who was chugging his prune juice WITH THE LAXATIVE MIXED IN IT, and wished that it was a matter of crackers.

Mata, did the chiropractic work help? I've always been intrigued by that possibility but haven't looked into it.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

My son has chronic constipation. His doc just keeps pushing glycolax. He, too, wants the stool to be very loose.
My problem is, if ds basically has diarrhea every day, he can't go to school.

So, I don't know what to do. sigh.
I do think ds holds it in when he can. It's so frustrating. And ds refuses to poop in the regular toilet...Only on his little potty or occasionally a diaper.
It makes me want to cry.

The doc wants to do an xray but my son is on the autism spectrum and would NOT lie still for an xray. I don't like the idea of sedating him because I have a sensitivity to those kinds of meds and I'd be afraid that ds could react to it too.


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

OdeToJoy









I don't mean this to be an unpaid endorsement for Miralax, or tell you what do--but if you want to know more about how Miralax might work, here it is:

My experience with Miralax is that it generally produces large, wet, soft BMs. Not frequent or watery like diarrhea. Our usual method of using it is if my son is withholding for a long time (during travel or illness, 5+ days), I give him 1/2 an adult dose until he has a big soft BM. This might take 2-3 days. After the unclogging, as I think of it, I give him 1/4 an adult dose for several days/weeks/months. This produces a normal-looking BM about every other day (with all the attending behavior issues that I mentioned above, unfortunately).

Your son might react differently, of course. My point is, you might be able to find the right dosage (maybe try different times of day? every other day?) so it's not an issue at school but still gives some relief. You could also try the "unclogging" during a school holiday and have at least several days or a week of big soft BMs before scaling back.

Why does your dr. want to do the X-ray--what might it show?


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

p-chan-haven't seen any direct results (today is day 3 of no poops) from the adjustment, however-her mood is much improved, and she hasn't been complaining about her stomach hurting as she was doing before. W/chiropractic it may take a few adjustments to see if it has any physical impact. I'm going to take her once a week-it can't hurt.

She has a regular doctor's appointment on the 28th-I hope to get a better handle on things. I want to write more but have to pick her up-will be back!


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

I don't know if we fit here or not, since dd has no problem pooping on her potty or with constipation. But her issue is huge poops. I mean, she's clogged toilets with poo only (no toilet paper). I'm not sure what to do, since she doesn't act like she's in any discomfort before or after a bm, and she goes like clockwork every day. I thought it was just a plumbing problem, but after reading some other posts about constipation, I'm not so sure.

Hoping to find some enlightenment here!


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *P-chan* 
Why does your dr. want to do the X-ray--what might it show?

It could show if he has an obstructed bowel.

Tried Miralax, gave ds massive cramps and explosive diarrhea. Not good.


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

Oh, it didn't click that you'd already tried it. I'm so sorry that you're back at square one.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

odetojoy! mata, I want to thank you for starting this thread! this is a really hard thing to deal with, and the only people who get it are people dealing with it, like us.

I can see it being a problem going to school with the miralax. I haven't found the right balance with ds and he's been on it for a few months. a big part of the problem is that he still tends to retain, so I can't really let it "firm up" or he'll totally stop. I have had similar results to the pp who described the "unclogging"







it runs about that way here, too. if we miss a dose, or a few doses, then it takes half an adult dose for 2-3 days before the blowout







my plan has been to homeschool anyway, which I guess alleviates some pressure (no pun intended) in one sense, but otoh I could stand a bit of a break! but there's no way I'm sending him into a school environment where he would be at risk for being teased about this, and my choices around here are solely very mainstream. I think they might require that he wear a pullup, even, which would totally not fly with him (or me).

all that said, I wouldn't give up on the miralax yet, odetojoy: try a lower dose, maybe a much lower one, if you haven't already. it is much less irritating to the GI tract and causes less gas and cramps than other laxatives, but of course that doesn't mean it won't cause *any* for *anybody*. I hope you find something that works! I would suggest magnesium citrate but it is definitely a "blowout" type, and you can't use it long term (magnesium can be toxic to the nervous system if taken too long, I learned on this journey).

behavior is a big indicator of backup at our house, too. I really have to remind myself when he hasn't passed anything in a few days, because he'll get soooo cranky and difficult! it's hard not to lose it









a reminder: poop doesn't have to be hard for there to be constipation. also, a child who doesn't go every day isn't necessarily constipated. we're blessed with irregularity as a personality trait here (it's really a blessing, it's really a blessing...) so I honestly have no idea what normal is going to end up looking like for ds! hard to aim for something when you don't know what the target is







:

whew! sorry my posts are so long on this!







I guess I really needed someone to talk to! it's really nice to get sympathy and encouragement instead of disdain and lectures


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

I'll stick with Glycolax for now.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

My son suffered with this for years. We finally had success with liquid calcium/magnesium prescribed by a naturopath. He was 4.5 when he stopped withholding. It was a nightmare that lasted for over 3 years


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

well, today wasn't that great for us-in the early afternoon she started looking like she had to go (day 3) so I braced myself. She started doing laps around the kitchen island on tiptoe, crying-and nada-so I know she was holding it. Two hours later she couldn't hold it anymore, and there was lots of crying, and "owie!" as I was cleaning her up.







Started a log so I can bring it to the doctor.

Thanks for mentioning calcium/magnesium supplements, Maman Musique-I'm going to read up on that. I've put her on probiotics, too. Oh, and I have to remember a warm water bottle helps, too.


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

Hey. My DD1 recently started having problems in this area.

She had a very brief bout of diarrhea, literally a one-trip-to-the-toilet thing. After that she spent a month constipated because she was afraid it was diarrhea again. She'd hold it for two or three sometimes five days. I actually think she had encopresis because she'd leak poop into her panties. The leaking got worse and worse every day that went by. We finally got her going every day.

Then she started up with the constipation again. Just a week ago. I have no idea what triggered it this time.

She's 4.5 and has literally had no problems with constipation until the past 2 or 3 months. We've not medicated her yet or even seen a doctor. I thought that first time was just a phase and we'd be through it. Unfortunately not the case.

When she's constipated she leaks loose poop around the clog into her panties. She can't hold it in. The nerve endings in her colon are so shot she can't tell when she needs to pass gas and when she needs to poop. We can't go anywhere because she'll mess her pants in the store, at the park, at a friend's house, at dance class.

As of tonight she hasn't got for three days. From the last experience I know it gets worse every day that goes by. I'm not sure what we need to do to get her off this habit.


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## robinkate (May 5, 2005)

When dd was about 2.5, she figured out that she could hold her poop in and we're still struggling with it (nine months later). I have been taking her to a chiropractor, but I'm not sure that the adjustments have helped much. I give her milk of magnesia about once or twice a week and that is enough to keep everything moving along. Right now I can't imagine that she will decide to go in the toilet, but am hoping one of these days she will realize pooping isn't that scary.


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## ZenMamaJen (Aug 19, 2005)

I'm sooo happy to see this thread.

My 3 year old dd is having the same problem. Hard poops that take her forever to get out, and she won't go near the potty to poop. It is really stressful!! It's nice to know that we are not alone in dealing with this. I feel like she may never use the potty (she's still in diapers 95% of the time).

I've found that kefir smoothies with some CLO in it helps, but as you all know, once they know you REALLY want them to drink it, they refuse.







I was thinking I may try cal/mag Floradix supplement? I take magnesium fairly often as I tend to have the same problem.







She will eat prunes, but if I push them...see above.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *P-chan* 
So now I'm trying to focus more on the pre-poop disruptive behavior. I actually booked an appointment with his pediatrician just for her to talk to my son about digestive health, and she gave him a letter with a few points to remember (e.g., push when your body tells you to push). This worked for a few weeks, but it's gotten bad again. I have to remind myself daily that it is his job to poop. I cannot poop for him.

P-chan, that is sooo true! I think I'm going to make myself a sign that says, "I cannot poop for him." did he really understand all that from the pediatrician? I've tried explaining things like that to ds but he just gets furious with me.







he'll be 4 in about 6 weeks.

MamanMusique, it's good to hear a success story! I would also like to hear more about this supplement. did you go through a period where you had to use miralax too, or some other laxative? if so, how did you make the transition?

Aprildawn, that definitely sounds like encopresis to me. since your dd is 4.5, maybe you can ask her about what's going on, and talk her through it? have you tried anything yet? knowing what I know now, I wouldn't let it go too long, but you could start with intensive dietary efforts and if you can't avoid it, go for the laxatives. if she understands, she may be old enough to cooperate with taking fiber, etc. (I don't know if 4.5 is a very cooperative age, or if your dd has a cooperative personality!







) the longer this goes on, the more her colon will get stretched, which will make it physically harder for her to get back "on track." hth!








con leche!

yesterday we went through about six pairs of underwear; today we dropped two miniscule presents on the floor at nana's. tomorrow will probably be a blowout day. I really wouldn't care if he only pooped in his underwear, if he'd just let it all out!


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goddessjulia* 
did he really understand all that from the pediatrician? I've tried explaining things like that to ds but he just gets furious with me.

I think he did. He really, really respects our pediatrician's authority, and she takes that respect very seriously. She's also a mother of three and knows how to talk to kids. Her main points (some of them were my ideas--we conspired by phone before the appointment) were:
1. Basic digestive workings (tube to stomach, intestines, etc), with diagrams
2. If the poop stays inside, his tummy gets bigger and bigger, and that hurts.
3. Holding it in is what is scary and painful--it's not healthy. The actual pooping feels good, because that's what his body wants to do.
4. He should listen carefully to his body, and push when it tells him to push.
5. Everyone poops--even the doctor! Most people poop every day, or about every day.

I made sure she wouldn't talk about the toilet at all, because my main goal now is just normal pooping.

Sigh, tomorrow will be Day Three.


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Just signing in as another member of this tribe. My son is almost 3 1/2 and has been on Mirlax for a long time, and refuses to poop anywhere but the diaper. For quite a long time (a year+) he'd hold poops in, even with the miralax, for days (a week). His behavior would deteriorate because he was so uncomfortable - and as PP have stated, you can't poop for them.

We are on a regular poop schedule now and he consistently asks for a diaper, but is no where near ready to poop in a potty. I need to schedule a f/u with the gastro to discuss the next step (tapering Miralax maybe).

A PP have stated - the give them a whole wheat cracker or fruit juice advice is a bit frustrating when you have a determined non-pooper with underlying medical issues related to chronic constipation.


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## corrie43 (Mar 9, 2003)

My 6 year old has this problem. He has been holding it for up to a week. He has the leaking/soiling issues. I have been trying all the natural stuff with no effect. He drinks prune juice every day, takes a fiber supplement, has oils in his diet. So far nothing has worked but chocolate ex-lax. I have only used it once, but we are on day 5 now again and no poop, and I know he needs to go. I see him grabbing his butt all the time.

He tried milk of magnesia but spit it out all over the place. He is in school so I can only use a laxative on the weekend, but I am going to have to use it again this weekend. This is so frustrating.... When he does go it is so large and hard it clogs the toilet. He has been clogging the toilet for over a year now with every bowel movement.


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## karlin (Apr 8, 2004)

...

Sorry, I had nothing realy helpful to add.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Corrie43- Ex lax is too harsh for young children. Glycolax is actually not considered a true laxitive. What it does is help the intestines to extract more water from the body so that the stool will be softer.

That is what I have learned from research and what the doc said. (I didn't quite believe the doc so I researched it. LOL).
Not telling ya what to do but you may want to stop the Ex Lax and do glycolax.


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Also to Corrie - if you are seeing watery stool it can often leak around the hard stool that forms after several days. It really suggests a huge back-jam of poo in there! Miralax, or other medication that draws water into the bowel, taken consistently can help soften the existing stool. Stimulant laxatives such a ex-lax are very hard on the system. Also providing some lubricant (such as baby oil) to the bum can help the hard/large poo pass. An enema, if your son will cooperate, will provide immediate softening of the stool with water and produce a poo very quickly. Unforch, most kiddos don't like enemas very much!

If this problem has been going on for a year it may have caused his bowel to stretch and now normal bowel function could be difficult/impossible. I'd suggest talking to your ped, if you haven't already.

We actually have a "poo plan" with what we do after 3 days of no poo (add milk of magnesia), 5 days of no poo (more MOM), and then at 7 days or when unbearable use a 1/2 Ducolax suppository (stimulant) or enema (better but often harder to get the child to cooperate).


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annekevdbroek* 
Also providing some lubricant (such as baby oil) to the bum can help the hard/large poo pass.

we used vaseline on DD1 last weekend with great results. it both stimulated her bowels from us touching down there to rub on the vaseline, and it provided lubricant so it didn't hurt. it was a combo of the vaseline and DH making her laugh so hard she couldn't hold it in anymore. he made her laugh by joking about how he needed to poop and asking where he should poop. in her closet? on her pillow? in her dolly's diaper? on her head? in the kitchen sink? she was laughing so hard then she ran to the toilet and went! amazing. DH also uses that line from Austin Powers with her, "Who does #2 work for?" that makes her laugh and helps her push it out when she's plugged up.


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aprildawn* 
DH also uses that line from Austin Powers with her, "Who does #2 work for?" that makes her laugh and helps her push it out when she's plugged up.










This is great! It's great when humor can make a trying situation better.


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## corrie43 (Mar 9, 2003)

We have an appointment on Wednesday. I am going to ask for a prescription of what you guys are reccomending, the mirilax. But for now there is NO WAY he will let me near his butt for an enema. He would kick and fight and end up hurting us or him. I had to use the Ex lax because this kid will spit out all liquid meds on me and I had to find a chewable. The exlax is chocolate and chewable, and it said ok for 6 year olds.

I know there are alternatives, but at the moment that's what I have to do. I can not get him to take any liquid meds, he always tastes them when I mix it in with stuff and is suspicious of any drinks I give him now. He's onto my tricks. I'm so frustrated at this point.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

, corrie43.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Corrie, my son is SUPER sensitive to oral meds too. That is why I can only use Glycolax. It's a powder that you can mix with water, milk or juice and it truly is tasteless.
My son has sensory issues and can pick up on flavors/smells in an instant but he NEVER knows the Glycolax is in his drinks.







Just make sure you mix it exremely well. I put ds's in a water bottle (poland springs type) or his Sigg bottle. Then I shake it up in the bottle...while periodically opening it to let the air out before I start shaking it again.
Hope that helps!


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## Leiahs (Jul 29, 2005)

*waves hello*

My daughter is just getting over this problem, which started in March this year. Yay.







Actually, for the last month she's been medication-free and doing pretty good - not pooping every day, but not having behavioral issues, and going when she felt the need to, all on her own.

Unfortunately we're regressing this week. It's been since Sunday night that she pooped last....and right now she's fallen asleep sitting on the potty. Guess I'll have to revert back to the medicine tonight









I have yet to ask for a prescription - which would be hard to do, seeing as how I"m in between doctors - but we've had success with various doses of milk of magnesia combined with a very strict diet. I wouldn't mind so much if she pooped so infrequently if it didn't affect her mood so drastically


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *corrie43* 
We have an appointment on Wednesday. I am going to ask for a prescription of what you guys are reccomending, the mirilax. But for now there is NO WAY he will let me near his butt for an enema. He would kick and fight and end up hurting us or him. I had to use the Ex lax because this kid will spit out all liquid meds on me and I had to find a chewable. The exlax is chocolate and chewable, and it said ok for 6 year olds.

I know there are alternatives, but at the moment that's what I have to do. I can not get him to take any liquid meds, he always tastes them when I mix it in with stuff and is suspicious of any drinks I give him now. He's onto my tricks. I'm so frustrated at this point.

right there with ya corrie!







exact same deal here. I'm pretty confident he won't taste the glycolax!







it is extraordinarily frustrating!! I have to sneak to get it in ds's first drink of the day. if he even sees the white bottle, I get "WHAT IS THAT?? THAT'S NOT FOR MY BOTTOM IS IT??"







noooo, no, honey, this is for mommy. go watch tv. shoo! then I whisk it in







it dissolves great in ginger ale, btw







:


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

ok-a good day today-pooped for a second day in a row, she didn't try to hold it, nor did she cry!
now I hope we can build on that, because unfortunately days like this have been few and far between lately. Dh was commenting on her sunny mood today, too. Poor kid-it must feel awful when it's bad.









Yesterday I started giving her carob/peanut clusters-to see if carob has the same impact on her as it does on me. She definitely doesn't mind having a couple of those a day.


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## corrie43 (Mar 9, 2003)

Well the situation has gone from bad to worse. I hass been 6 days with no movement. He had two child doses of ex lax yesterday as well as a glycerin suppository with no results. We are going to have to go to the doctor today because he was up half the night moaning and groaning. He just can not pass whatever is blocking him up. We spent over 7 hours yesterday trying to deal with this.

2 warm baths, talking him into the suppository and tons of time sitting on the potty. I'm just so frustrated. It's not getting like this again.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

You know what has been helping ds poop? Dr Praeggers Spinach Pancakes. In the frozen section. They can either be found in the Kosher frozen foods or in the Natural foods area.

My ds finally pooped yesterday. He still has more though...his tummy is a bit hard. Poor kid.
I'll give him more Glycolax today.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goddessjulia* 
MamanMusique, it's good to hear a success story! I would also like to hear more about this supplement. did you go through a period where you had to use miralax too, or some other laxative? if so, how did you make the transition?


nak and tendonitis...

We did see a gastroenterologist when ds was about 18mo. That was a useless and frustrating appointment. We reluctantly put ds on Miralax and he did not do well at all. His skin began looking grayish and he was not healthy on it. Did not help the poop issue anyway.

The naturopath put us on a hypoallergenic diet which we stayed on for 2 years. That did not have an effect on pooping but we felt good on it so continued. She prescribed liquid cal/mag (and probiotics) which I believe was a turning point for us. DS never had hard stools but did have build up and a stretched colon from withholding. Things just were not moving thru. The cal/mag helped move things thru more regularly. Still the emotional part dragged on. Finally when he was 4.5 and decided to poop in a toilet he immediately stopped withholding. The position was what did it for him. We had always tried to get him to squat (with diaper) while pooping but he refused. He insisted on standing with his legs together and trying to hold it. Not a good poop position. This of course perpetuated the problem. The minute he went on the toilet he saw how easy poop could come out. Never did have a problem after that. After 3 years of torture it went away that easily and he is now 5.5 and fine.

We never wanted to push him to toilet train and did not even try as we were always told it could lead to withholding and we honestly did not care where he pooped we just wanted him to poop. We were kind of between a rock and a hard place, looking back on it. If we tried to have him use the toilet he might withhold even more yet the positioning is what did it. All it took was one time. Also, he went right to a regular toilet with an insert (his choice)

That is the story to the best of my memory - I may have blocked a lot of it out. It was a horrible experience









Good luck mamas


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *corrie43* 
Well the situation has gone from bad to worse. I hass been 6 days with no movement. He had two child doses of ex lax yesterday as well as a glycerin suppository with no results. We are going to have to go to the doctor today because he was up half the night moaning and groaning. He just can not pass whatever is blocking him up. We spent over 7 hours yesterday trying to deal with this.

2 warm baths, talking him into the suppository and tons of time sitting on the potty. I'm just so frustrated. It's not getting like this again.


I'm sorry, corrie43-good luck today.


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## corrie43 (Mar 9, 2003)

Well one xray and rectal exam later we are home. He has a ton of poop in his colon but luckily not impacted yet, but the doctor said if he doesn't go within the next 24 hours he could get that way. He gave us a prescription for miralax which thankfully has no taste. So hoping for the best.

The biggest problem is now he screams bloody murder as soon as we sit him on the potty. He just won't go and is holding it back. No matter how much we talk to him about it. This is an almost 6 year old who has been pooping fine almost his whole life. What the heck?? You would think he has had a traumatic experience on the potty or something but he hasn't.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

corrie! it will take 2-3 days on the miralax, but it will work! I remember ds figuring out how to expel the suppository without anything else (sorry, TMI!) now _that's_ control!









you *would* think something traumatic had happened. I mean, really, what makes a kid decide to quit pooping forever because of a diaper rash?? other kids didn't do this. most kids will have a painful rash at least once eventually. what makes one kid decide to retain? it's sooo frustrating.

maman musique, I am hopeful that by the time ds is 4.5 he'll have that light bulb go on too. that's only 7 months away!







: he also does the "stand and squeeze" thing-- I think that happens a lot-- but in our case we *have* tried to get him to use the potty, and he did have one day not too long ago when he went all day to the potty to poop. but I guess he just hasn't put it all together yet. I have worried that we shouldn't have "introduced" the potty, or that we did it too early, etc. but his pee training was instantaneous and was prompted by seeing a friend pee in the potty, so that was all his own doing. some days we go through ten pairs of underwear because he's trying not to poop and lets it out little by little. those are the worst. I keep thinking, one day he'll be five, one day he'll be five, hoping that the developmental changes that come with age will help him figure it out and quit fighting it.

may we all get there soon, and with much mirth and merriment and no additional issues to deal with after this one goes away!








:


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

day 3 today-so in writing it down I'm seeing her pattern. this morning she's crying, doing laps around the kitchen island and holding it in. On Saturday she asked to wear undies and has been dry since then, but this morning when she had to go poo I put her on the potty and she freaked and I put a diaper back on because of course she was upset she would go in her panties. Talking, talking, talking to her-she just wanted me to hold her for about half an hour, poor babe. I'm seriously thinking of taking her out of her preschool class just so she can completely get back in touch with her body's rhythmn. She only goes four hours a week, but I know she wouldn't go in the potty there, and she would try not to go in her diaper-just another reason for her to do more holding in.


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

I'm so glad for this thread. We really hit a low point this weekend. My husband was out of town for a funeral and on Day 4 (Saturday) things had totally fallen apart: the laps around the house, high-stepping, not eating, whining, throwing, biting, hitting--the works. I became way too emotional invested in his poop and so I was getting frustrated too. The breaking point was when I got a soccer ball to the face--I gave myself a time-out and went in a different room to cry. Really cry. My son came in with a worried face every so often, and at one point I heard him tell the baby (who was safely strapped in a high chair) that "Mama can't come in here right now, because she's being too loud."









So he didn't poop that day, and on Sunday I woke up with a new outlook: I couldn't change his reaction to his poop, but I could change mine. I planned some fun stuff out of the house (he rarely has the drama in public) and when it started again I was mentally prepared. He finally pooped on Day 5.

Wow, this is like free therapy!


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

P-Chan-







I'm glad you got an emotional release, and what a great realization. I think I've been in denial about how much of a toll this can take-it really is so stressful dealing with the behaviors and something constantly not being "right." Thank you for mentioning the high stepping-dd does that too-now I fully understand what's going on. It's a bit freeing to move from that place of "it really can't be that serious, can it?" to realizing something does need to be done.


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

This is a great thread - so helpful to know that other parents are out there dealing with the same issues.

As PP noted - my son also learned to expell the suppository and nothing else. Our GI doc actually recommended against the glycerin suppositories becuase he felt that they are very uncomfortable physically and don't accomplish much.

DS has been taking Mirlax a long time and has finally stopped withholding (its been months and months since the last time). He will only poo in a diaper, but I guess that isn't too abnormal at 3 years of age.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annekevdbroek* 
As PP noted - my son also learned to expell the suppository and nothing else. Our GI doc actually recommended against the glycerin suppositories becuase he felt that they are very uncomfortable physically and don't accomplish much.


I was going to ask about suppositories. I had gotten some on the advice of the extended care doctor when I took dd in to check for strep, but I didn't end up using them. I was debating yesterday whether I should use them if she didn't go soon, but I definitely won't use them now.


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## simcon (Jul 31, 2002)

We dealt with this too, from when dd was about 12-20 months or so (not severe the whole time, but definite regular episodes....) We tried lots of things, and ended up with Miralax too, not all the time, but I would use it for a week or so when she was withholding. She also wasn't a big fan of juice, so I just mixed it with water, and she'd drink it during the day (never all at once)--it made dosing tricky, since I was never sure how much I could actually count on her drinking. This was all before potty learning, and I was home with her at the time--I so feel for you all who have dc using (or not using) the potty, and being at school--it's so hard to have life revolve around a child's pooping habits!

But I just wanted to write that there is hope--my daughter has been a regular pooper for the past year or so (in the potty and everything), though sometimes they're painful, she just wants to hold my hand then..


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mata* 
I was going to ask about suppositories. I had gotten some on the advice of the extended care doctor when I took dd in to check for strep, but I didn't end up using them. I was debating yesterday whether I should use them if she didn't go soon, but I definitely won't use them now.

Well, they worked when he was little (like 12 months). Frankly, if I have to stick something in his bottom (which he HATES and so is only done under the most extreme circumstances - like no poop for a week) then my preference is for an enema because 1) it works very fast 2) it makes the poo really soft 3) it is about as natural as you can get (water + magnesium salts). I would say his hatred of both is about equal and that the enema is actually a little easier to use. If you haven't used an enema for your child before I strongly suggest that everyone stay in the bathroom until pooping is finished!


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

P-chan - I totally understand what you mean about being too emotionally invested in the pooping. Last week when she finally pooped after five days of not pooping I literally was able to begin and complete several other tasks that I'd put on hold, including cooking dinner. There was no good reason for me to not be cooking. But I couldn't focus enough to even think of what to make. Her not pooping wasn't stopping me from cooking, but somehow it was. I realized I was fragmented emotionally and had too much invested in DD1 that it was keeping me from devoting myself to other matters.

Two weeks ago I really chastised her for leaking into her pants in the fabric store. Whenever she does that she just takes her pants and panties down to check. She came up to me with poop all over her hand and wrist and her pants around her waist. This is a 4.5 year old in public with a poop covered hand and and naked booty!! I was mortified. I shamed her all the way out of the store and all the way home. I felt horrible about it and apologized to her later.

We've had about three days of her going every day. It's nice. I'm still hoping this was just a phase and we won't have to resort to medicine or other extreme measures. It came on so suddenly. I just hope it goes away suddenly too.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

aprildawn! sometimes we really get the difference in their perspective as compared to ours thrown in our faces, don't we?









I did have the suppositories work a couple of times, but they terrify ds, and now that's he's older he has told me why. the last time I used one after one of his weeklong retaining adventures, he ran around the house screaming on tiptoe, "it buhns! it buhns!!" (it burns!) so we definitely don't use them anymore.

p-chan, I sooo hear you! I don't know how my ds has such good aim for the bridge of my nose







mommy is the only one who ever gets timeouts at our house!

I am really grateful for this thread too! it *is* like free therapy!


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## VBMama (Jan 6, 2004)

Hi there,
I'm signing up for this thread - ds1 is 2.75, so a little younger than some of yours, but we are suffering from all the same drama that everyone else has described.

Today he finally did the big poop after 4 days of holding it. We gave him a suppository last night and he managed to expel it with only a little poop. So the "poop labor" started immediately after he got up at 8 am and absolutely nothing else happened in our house except all the drama until 1 pm.







I struggle so hard with not getting angry at him. I always start off wanting to be supportive because the poor little guy is so miserable, but my sympathy wanes after 2 days of horrible behavior and hours on hours of him whining for me or dh to sit in a particular spot every 10 minutes so he can hang on us while he fights off the urge. I'm dreading that this is going to go on for years or that he is going to damage his colon. Potty training is a big joke - right now I'd be happy if he would just poop, forget about sitting on the potty to do it.

I'm glad to hear I don't have the only child around dealing with this issue.


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## VBMama (Jan 6, 2004)

Also, has anyone tried maltsupex for their dc? My ped recommended it, apparently it's an OTC stool softener for kids.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

Hi VBMama-I haven't heard of maltsupex. DD saw the doctor this morning and she's putting her on Miralax for a month.


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## adtake (Feb 1, 2006)

Glad I found you guys.









My oldest will be 5 in December. My DH and I are at our wits end. He has been peeing just fine since around 2ish. He has never pooped in the toliet regurarly. He will hide, go upstairs, stand behind the couch. Normally will pee his pants then poop his pants. His dad and I are







:







:
























































. We have tried everything to get him to use the toliet. Talking, questioning, sitting with him, giving treats, taking privledges away, ignoring....you name we've done it.

As far as I can tell he is not constipated per se. His poop is not 'hard' and he doesn't strain to go. He just doesn't go in the toliet.

Any, any, any ,any words of wisdom and help, please!!


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

aprildawn and adtake:







I don't have any words of wisdom for you and hope that things get better soon.

VBMama, it sounds like our sons go about pooping in very similar ways. "Poop labor" is a great phrase! I have coined the word "poogasm" for the moment that the poop finally comes (for the record, I don't use that word in front of my son).

Must run, baby calls.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

I have one thing to say about Miralax-holy mother of poop!!!!!

I'm running out of diapers!


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## Pica (May 14, 2004)

... signing in as as part of the pooping tribe ....

We've done naturopath, elimination diet, osteopath, laxatives, rewards, explaining the reasons why it's not healthy to hold it in with no luck.








Things that have worked for us so far:

- trying to empower DD, tell her SHE is in charge of pooping, no one else, and that I'm not going to coach/cajole/nag her about it anymore









- not talking about poop unless she brings it up

- "brainwashing" suggestions to her as she sleeps







: (only to maintain the healthy rhythm, not to initiate pooping while withholding)

- treats, but not overdoing praise (that backfired on us)









- "treatment plan" of laxative after 1 day without pooping (I've found even skipping one day will throw her right off).

We've found once DD starts pooping regularly, it's really easy for her to lapse back into withholding --- it's such a delicate balance.

Our recent successes have been related, I believe, to me trying to lose my emotional investment, and adopt an attitude of "You're in charge. You'll decide when you need to go." After a couple of months of that, I think she started to trust me that I wasn't going to pressure her & 'coach' her on the toilet, and she relaxed some more. When she finally went, I'd give her the treat, but not really praise her.

I never knew s**t could make me so happy!!!


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## Pica (May 14, 2004)

Anyone else have a pooping calendar?









I have recorded *ALL* of DD's poops & various medications & dosages every day for the last 13 months!

I swear this experience is making me even more ANAL!







:


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

I posted something about my ds anal retention last year around this time. He started holding his bms when I tried to toilet train him. He is only getting over it now. So I am going to try to train him again. I am going to use flax seed oil - my pedi recommended it. I'll put in his cheese sandwichs. I'llet you know how it works.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

I have a Miralax related question. DD had been taking it for about 4 days and (sorry about the tmi) everything became extremely watery. The doctor told me to give it to her every other day instead of every day, which we just started doing. She still had a very watery bm this morning after not going yesterday. Does Miralax typically bring that on?


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Miralax can make poo very watery. We have sometimes cut the daily dose in half or less at times as needed. I've never skipped days. If you are giving her the full dose (17 g, a capfull) that is enough for an adult - so you can imagine that on the relatively smaller system of a kid things can get really watery.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annekevdbroek* 
If you are giving her the full dose (17 g, a capfull) that is enough for an adult...


yikes-that is what she was prescribed. Although she ends up only finishing half, so...


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

My son takes a full capfull - which is about 4 - 4.5 tsp. Knowing that it is pretty easy to use a teaspoon and measure out a lesser amount consistently (or if you decide to taper down the dose over time).


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

for us, skipping days with the miralax results in non-pooping and all the resultant joys, so cutting back on the dose works much better. since it works by drawing more water into the colon to soften the bm, when we get too much, oh yeah, it's a mess!







: ds gets a little over half a dose. it is definitely "holy mother of poop"!









I've lost track of who all said what, but we have trouble with dosing too. sometimes the drink gets spilled (last week I *swear* he knew-- he spilled the whole drink 4 days in a row, sometimes more than once in a day!







: ), sometimes he doesn't finish it, and I just love those mornings when he *says* he wants juice, so I fix it in juice, then he decides he wants cow's milk!







we're finally back on track with dosing for a couple of days in a row, but now we're dealing with halloween candy highs and lows, so the behavior still sucks.









Mata, you mentioned root chakra issues early in this thread and I meant to comment. I have thought about this in that regard also. you mentioned acceptance in the tribe, and I have found it is also affected by security/ stability because it relates to survival. for us we have had a lot of instability over the past few years financially, and we moved three times in 12 months, including our move into our current house this past may-june. I have wondered if this aggravated ds's problem, although it doesn't seem to be improving yet.

I really liked what someone posted about convincing her dc that her pooping process is all up to her. this feels important for us too. this gave me renewed confidence that if I can stay relaxed about it long enough, he will eventually believe that I am relaxed and will relax himself. at least I hope so! I'm afraid it will take a lot longer than 2 weeks for us, though







:

off to get my monster to bed now!


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

oh,bleh-my oldest has strep throat and now I feel like I've completely lost track of youngest dd's pooping and dosing. Thanks again for your input, annekevdbroek, and for yours, goddessjulia-you know, the more I've thought about it I'm not going to do what the doctor said about skipping a day. When dd's poops first got really watery I cut the dosage in half but then doubted myself and checked with the doc. I can really see where skipping a day would be counterproductive.

Goddessjulia-about root chakra issues-I've been doing a lot of soul searching about that. I hope your insight helps your situation. I'm a parent who was an only child, and I think I'm guilty of making dd#2 feel very second child. I've been trying to change that-hopefully it will contribute to her improvement.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mata* 
Goddessjulia-about root chakra issues-I've been doing a lot of soul searching about that. I hope your insight helps your situation. I'm a parent who was an only child, and I think I'm guilty of making dd#2 feel very second child. I've been trying to change that-hopefully it will contribute to her improvement.

good luck with that! I don't know what your beliefs are, but I believe that our children choose us, and we them. so when the lessons are hard, I remind myself that he chose me, and I may not be able to see what the challenges will produce, but I can trust that he is getting what his soul wanted for this lifetime. this helps me to not judge myself too harshly, which otherwise I am *very* prone to do!


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## OwensMa (Apr 15, 2004)

We're suffering the same thing here. DS's bowels have never been the same since he weaned last Christmas. It's been problematic since then. He's been suffering the encopresis, and usual constipation. It hurts the poor fella. He's out of diapers, but is afraid to sit to poop, as I think he can't control it, or "stop it", in his words. I'm going to see my physician for the miralax. It sounds great. Right now, we use liquid senokot in chocolate milk (it's supposedly chocolate flavoured), but I feel it's the dairy that's plugging him up. Thanks for the ideas. I'm sorry our kiddos are going through this, though!


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

try switching to chocolate rice milk. my ds won't drink regular rice milk, but he drinks the chocolate just fine. I think dairy is a problem for us, too, but I haven't had success eliminating it so far. the whole family would have to do it, and it's hidden in so many things!


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## Tuesday (Mar 3, 2003)

I'm glad to see this thread - at least I know this is not an unusual problem. DS is 3.5 and been suffering from these constipation/pooping issues for 2 years. He was getting potty trained but seems to be afraid, at times, of using it. I'm sure his resistance is related not only to his bowel issues but also to the arrival of his baby brother this summer. For 2 years, the screaming and crying because of his bowel issues was just awful. The family doc. prescribed a few laxatives but I was uneasy about using them on a long term. I've come to a solution that works for DS - the solution keeps his bowels running regularly so at least he's not constipated. I grind flax seeds every day in coffee grinder and cook them in water on a pot then I throw in Red River cereal or organic Oatmeal (rolled or steel cut) and serve the hot cereal to DS. He loves the cereal and the grains along with the flax seed just seems to keep his bowels regular - for the first time in years.

Now that he is older, I try to stress over and over how important it is to eat and drink specific things to "help me poop" as my son says. DS is enthusiastically eating fibrous veggies like kale and cabbage knowing it will help his "bum". As long as I'm strict about serving the hot cereal and flax every day and making sure he drinks some prune juice and eats veggies, he is "regular". I also make sure he eats about 1 cup of plain yogurt each too. Too much white flour product or dairy and he backs up, though.

He's not remotely interested in potty training (he uses the potty 2 times a week!) but I figure at least if I keep him from being constipated, in his own time, he will eventually get himself on to the toilet without fear. No real solutions here but good to know we're not alone.


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## OwensMa (Apr 15, 2004)

Thanks for the idea of ground flax seeds in oatmeal, Tuesday. Sounds like a good idea!
BTW, congratulations on your baby boy. I had DS2 in the summer, too.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

I hadn't tried the flax in the oatmeal either. we did have the best luck with regularity without miralax when ds was eating oatmeal *every day* for breakfast, but then he quit wanting to eat it (and if he missed one day, forget it!). I know others have mentioned difficulties with eating habits. has anyone figured out a way around this? as some of us mentioned early in this thread, if ds knows I'm too vested in getting him to eat or drink something, it's a sure bet he won't touch it. we still can't talk about eating things that help him poop either; that results in definite refusal to eat said food. I am so tired of the battles, and now that I'm pg dealing with his poop is becoming seriously difficult!


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Oatmeal is wonderful for pooping - and it is also one of DS's favorite foods. Dairy, according to the GI doc, acts like "glue" in the gut and can contribbute significantly to constipation. We try to limit it as much as possible. Fortunatly DS prefers soymilk over cow's milk.

I just wanted to add that this week we have had 4 (FOUR!) poops in the potty for the very first time. I had a Thomas lumbermill I bought over a year ago as a reward for pooping in the potty and DS finally earned it. YAY!


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

So far, so good for us. For a couple of weeks now DD1 has been going more regularly. Sometimes she goes three days between poops (not her norm...maybe it's her new norm). And those poops are huge! But not painful or laborious to get out, thankfully.

As for food we do talk about what helps you poop and what doesn't. It works for us. I know some of you have said your child will resist food you tell them will make them poop. She's beginning to choose better foods. As a result her poop is getting easier.

As for oatmeal, what about cookies? Or those oatmeal bars? You can hide oats in things like that. Muffins...just ideas.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

My son won't eat regular oatmeal but he will eat oatmeal cookies (no raisins).
It does tend to help. Molasses cookies helps him too.


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## Tuesday (Mar 3, 2003)

Hi again (wave to Owensma - congrats!







). I posted above about about grinding flax and using it along with hot oatmeal or Red River cereal (which contains rye & flax grain). In our case, the thing that is working is grinding the flax seed, then boiling the ground flax in water on the stove. Once the water turns into a kind of "flax soup", I throw in the cereal grain and cook the cereal. The Red River cereal is great because it is cheap, all-natural and already has flax in it. The only oatmeal I use is the long cooking type - nothing processed (i.e. quick cook oats). As long as I keep in eating this flax & cereal every day or every other day, his bowels move normally.

I wanted to clarify because I re-read my post and realized I wasn't clear enough. HTH


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annekevdbroek* 
Oatmeal is wonderful for pooping - and it is also one of DS's favorite foods. Dairy, according to the GI doc, acts like "glue" in the gut and can contribbute significantly to constipation. We try to limit it as much as possible. Fortunatly DS prefers soymilk over cow's milk.

I just wanted to add that this week we have had 4 (FOUR!) poops in the potty for the very first time. I had a Thomas lumbermill I bought over a year ago as a reward for pooping in the potty and DS finally earned it. YAY!

congrats on that!







yeah, I've heard several folks call dairy (cow dairy) products "butt glue"







we don't eat soy products here though, I'm concerned about the hormonal effects, and although ds will drink chocolate rice milk, he won't drink the vanilla kind. it's not that ds doesn't like oatmeal, it's that he won't eat the same things for too many days in a row. I get exhausted trying to be creative for days on end with all these clever ways of getting the right stuff into him. and, until I can get dh to agree to being a no-cow's-milk household, going off dairy will be impossible. ds would eat goat cheese all day, but when the other stuff is around he wants that too. I know we'll have to eliminate it to get him off the miralax, though... sigh, one day at a time!


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

Oh boy--I so far don't have these problems but I really feel for you all....Poor kids! Poor little tummies! Do you all try yogurt/acidophilus? That certainly helps ME poop. My son was also totally fascinated by putting playdough into a straw and pushing it out, after I told him that was what the tube in his body that made poop was like.


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goddessjulia* 
it's that he won't eat the same things for too many days in a row. I get exhausted trying to be creative for days on end with all these clever ways of getting the right stuff into him.

that's our problem here too. although i have to admit, i'm that way. i can't stand to eat the same thing too many days in a row, even if it's good for me. but it is exhausting to think of new foods to cook for the kids all the time. esp when they're picky. hey -- i just realized maybe i'm trying to project my need for variety on my kids. maybe i should just make the same dern foods every day. sure would solve some of my problems.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2* 
My son was also totally fascinated by putting playdough into a straw and pushing it out, after I told him that was what the tube in his body that made poop was like.

AWESOME idea! i love it. DD1 is super tactile. she'd love that.


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

I was a little hesitant to post this, especially on the heels of the all-natural ground-up flax seed success stories, but here it is.







:

I got this idea after reading another thread in this forum about success with small edible bribes for potty learning. I was surprised at the enthusiasm for doing this, and decided to come up with a system for our situation. Which, as you may recall, involves a lot of anti-social behavior (hitting, whining, pushing) as my son tries to hold it in for days. So I wanted to come up with a system that decreased that behavior and encouraged regular pooping.

Here's the system: at the first sign of withholding (usually high-stepping around the room), I put five chocolate chips on a plate. If he hits, one chocolate chip goes back in the cupboard. After the poop comes out, he can eat all the chocolate chips left on the plate.

My son is not one to be persuaded by incentives--when we've tried to use them in the past, he decides he just doesn't want the incentive. The chocolate chips seem to be small enough that they don't make it be a Big Deal, but attractive enough that he's pleased to eat them. I think they help him stay focused on not hitting and on the fact that things are better after the poop comes out. It's like the chocolate chips make it more concrete for him.

We've been doing it for several weeks, and we're in a pretty good place right now, albeit still on Miralax. He's pooping every other day or even every day, there is very little of the pre-poop drama, and he's even able to get to the bathroom to start pooping (he does it in his diaper, but he likes to be in the bathroom). We've been talking up wearing underwear on his 3.5 birthday, at the end of the month, and I think he might be ready to try both pee and poop.

Anyway. I hope this might help someone else! Must run, baby calls.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

I don't know if dd had a tummy bug yesterday or what, but she had D 8 times, and was complaining about her tummy hurting. I didn't dose her yesterday, put her on the brat diet, and will call the doctor again this morning to see what she has to say.


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

Mata--I hope your DD is OK. When my son was about 14 months old, and had been on Miralax for months, he had a stomach bug with diarrhea. I also stopped the Miralax immediately, and then we had about 6 months of happy, laxative- and issue-free pooping. It kind of jump-started his system. I hope that you have similar happy results.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

p-chan, thank you. I hope that's the case! I'm feeling upset for her lately.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *P-chan* 
I got this idea after reading another thread in this forum about success with small edible bribes for potty learning. I was surprised at the enthusiasm for doing this, and decided to come up with a system for our situation. Which, as you may recall, involves a lot of anti-social behavior (hitting, whining, pushing) as my son tries to hold it in for days. So I wanted to come up with a system that decreased that behavior and encouraged regular pooping.

Here's the system: at the first sign of withholding (usually high-stepping around the room), I put five chocolate chips on a plate. If he hits, one chocolate chip goes back in the cupboard. After the poop comes out, he can eat all the chocolate chips left on the plate.

My son is not one to be persuaded by incentives--when we've tried to use them in the past, he decides he just doesn't want the incentive. The chocolate chips seem to be small enough that they don't make it be a Big Deal, but attractive enough that he's pleased to eat them. I think they help him stay focused on not hitting and on the fact that things are better after the poop comes out. It's like the chocolate chips make it more concrete for him.

rock on!!







I think I read that thread too. I thought, you lucky mommas! because incentives don't work for us, either. every one I've ever tried has backfired ROYALLY. this sounds great though-- it's just subtly different enough to address the issues going on with this problem. I'm going to think about how I can incorporate something like this... thanks so much for sharing!!


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

yeah, p-chan-sorry I didn't say it yesterday-I was so wrapped up in our stuff-but that is wonderful! I'm so happy you found something that works!


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

I'm crossing my fingers that this could lead to a long-term solution. We've been doing it for about four weeks or so now, and it took about two weeks to see a noticeable change of behavior. One time, over the span of two days, he lost all of the chocolate chips but wasn't that bothered that there weren't any to eat. Now he's pooping before I even have the chips on the ready.

He usually feels the urge while I'm nursing the baby down for her nap. He'll peek in the room and say, "Mama, I have to go to the bathroom. I have to poop!" And I'll say, "OK then!" And he'll go do it.

I was expecting yesterday to be an "off day," so I was surprised when he said that he had to poop. He soon came out of the bathroom and announced that nothing came out. I saw this as a new success, that he could feel that he might have to go and didn't try to hold it in--he actually tried to push and then realized that it wasn't going to happen. It was all very nuanced and subtle. This sometimes happens to me, so I was pleased that he's doing something so normal!

Goddessjulia, it sounds like our boys are the same incentive-wise. I hope that you can find a variation that works for you. I try to avoid rewarding the poop itself--he should poop because he needs to poop, not because I'm giving him chocolate--and focus more on the behavior.

Mata, how is your daughter?


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

that's great p-chan-four weeks sounds like you're well on your way! And your ds sounds like a cutie, btw.









my dd is ok-the D stopped, I put her back on a reduced dosage of Miralax, but today is day #3 w/out a poop. We're taking our girls on an outing today and I'm trying not to obsess-hopefully she'll go before we leave and I won't have to tote a bunch of pullups or deal with explosive D and multiple changes on our outing.









I really should keep a sense of humor about it all, shouldn't I? At least dd has been happy and active the past couple of days-not like before when she was clearly jammed up and uncomfortable from it.


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## VBMama (Jan 6, 2004)

Hi again,
Back to report that ds1 has been on lactulose (similar to miralax, I think) since just before Halloween and it is helping somewhat, although I'm not sure we have gotten the dosage just right yet. Do your dc on miralax have multiple poops during the day? Some days ds will poop 4-5 times, but only small amounts. The drama around the pooping event has subsided, but he does still try and hold it in. Also, gack, what a mess to clean up with the medication (he's still in diapers)! Anyone have good tips for easier cleaning?


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

VBMama - Lactulose is a nondigetable sugar - which helps draw water into the bowel. It is a bit like taking corn syrup, in principal and taste. DS was on it when very little and we just couldn't get him to eat enough of it (3 tablespoons when he was 7 or 8 months old and barely into solids at all). Miralax is a disolvable, flavorless power - but it also helps draw water into the bowel. They are different, but the ultimate result is the same, pooping. With miralax we get one poop a day - but again, as the gut and child adjust the results will change with time.

In terms of cleaning - make sure the diaper is on tight, have towels ready on hand to stand child on if leaks start - along with plastic bags to scoop dirty clothes into, etc. Those blowouts can really be something!


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## VBMama (Jan 6, 2004)

Thanks for the info about miralax vs. lactulose, annekevdbroek. So far he does just fine taking the lactulose from a medicine dispenser, I think it might be harder to convince him to down a drink with a powder mixed in - I'm always pushing him to drink more liquids 'cause I don't think he gets enough water and he often resists when I push. You have to be so darn subtle with toddlers!

P-chan, can you give me a link to the discussion about using edible treats? Sounds like it's a system that's working for you, that's great.


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=540912

Mmmmmm, truffles.









We're off the usual weekday routine and that seems to have thrown him off--he's resisting it today. I'm hopeful we'll be back on track soon....


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## treelover (Jan 22, 2004)

Hi everyone,
I can't post our story now, but it sounds really similar to most of yours. Ds is 3 and has pooping issues from birth I think.....but concretely since 2 when he potty learned. We were also on glycolax for some time.....it didn't solve anything and in some ways made things worse because poops became even more irregular/unpredictable (he's been potty learned since 2 and would throw a fit when he leaked in his underwear) and watery.
I was in Whole Foods one day talking to the clerk about this issue when another customer overheard my story and chimed in with her advise. I shrugged it off as yet another mean-well but useless and what-do-you-know piece of information. It just seemed too easy. Out of desperation, I did eventually go back and buy what she had suggested. It worked! Ok, the issues are not completey gone, but if I remember to give him his "medicine" everyday, he poops on the potty, mostly on his own every other day or so. Every once in a while, he must get a flashback or something and will try and hold his poop and then we cope with the behavioral issues while I give him a double dose of the "medicine". I know it sounds to good to be true and way to easy, but it really has helped us. It's the *Fiber* supplement for kids by Yummibears. Mostly made from Chicory root. They look like gummi bear candy and my DS loves to take these everyday. The dose is 4 per day, but I only give him 2/day and it seems to be enough most days. Hope this helps you. I'll check back in when I have more time.


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

treelover -- great suggestion on the fiber. esp if you're like we've been. we haven't needed to go the Rx route yet, but getting her to eat right and drink enough water has been difficult at times. gummy fiber would be awesome! i'll get some next time she gets constipated.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

thanks treelover-I'll look for that.


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

I love this thread! Great tip on the fiber supplements.


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

Recently I added flax seed oil to his yogurt and Floridix (magnesium) to his juice and I got 3 poops in 5 days! Unfortunately he did not poop yesterday as expected. I may upthe dosages of these things and see if it helps.


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## pleasepoo (Nov 30, 2006)

thank God for google - I googled "2 year old not pooping" and came across this! I needed this thread more for my own sanity.








Our story is the same - dd is 2 1/2 years (3 in March) and the last 4-6 mo is HOLDING her poo. I have tried everything with this child. No diary,MOM, senna, prunes, fiber, rewards, no reward, etc .. NOTHING has really worked at all. Her ped finally gave in and gave us a rx for miralax - I was to the point of begging for it - so we will see. He told me to give her 3/4 the adult dose so I am sure I am in for a flood of poo.

Seriously, I will be so happy to see liquid poo and not something that looks like it could have come out of a 2 ton gorrilla.

NOthing great to add - just thanks a million billion to whoever started this.









Trish


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

welcome Trish-glad you found us-I saw your name and although I totally feel your pain, thank you for the laugh!! My 3yo dd has been on Miralax for about a month now, and I think I've finally gotten the dosage right, and I think her body is healing. We had frequent watery poops for a couple of weeks, but now she does 2-3 small, less watery ones a day and is SO much more agreeable. I hope it helps your dd very soon.


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pleasepoo* 
Seriously, I will be so happy to see liquid poo and not something that looks like it could have come out of a 2 ton gorrilla.

Trish

Yes - Welcome. You will find many sympathetic ears here. Isn't it amazing when a 2-year-old produces a toilet-stopping whopper. Who knew? We were all quite amazed when the toilet "burped" up the unmanageable deposit.

My son has been on Miralax for almost 3 years. He has just recently started pooping in the potty consistently - and it has been a long time since we had a bad episode of consitpation. He is also finally old enough to know that some foods help with soft poopies, and he is motivated to eat those foods. We are now in the very slow process of tapering off the Miralax.

Best wishes.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

dd took a big step today-she was willing to try and go in the potty. That's big progress for her-three weeks ago just asking her would put her in hysterics, poor babe. She'll get there! Thanks for all the advice and commiseration-it's helped so much having people understand.


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

Yay mata! That's great news.









We've had some major progress here as well. We've been talking up my son's three-and-a-half birthday for months, as a time that he'd be ready to wear underwear and start putting pee and poop in the potty. Way back when we started, the mere mention of it put him in hysterics, then the idea of it gradually normalized, and as the big day drew near he started volunteering that he was going to be ready to do it. For the last week we made a paper link chain and cut one off every night. We planned a half-birthday celebration and made cupcakes. We made a sticker chart plus promised 2 M&Ms for a pee and 5 for a poop.

So the big day came, and he loved wearing underwear and then ended up holding his pee for 9 hours (apparently it's not enough for him to be anally retentive--he has to retain pee too!). He finally peed in the potty and has not had one accident in 5 days.

He was due to poop on the second no-diaper day, and he didn't. So the next day I really expected him to. He tried to deny it for a while, but I am happy to report that he finally sat down on his little potty and pooped into it! (His first post-poop words: "When I poop in the little cup, my poop is a circle every time.")

We quickly got him peeing into the actual toilet and put the potty away in the garage. But for the second poop he really resisted the toilet, so we brought the potty back, just for poop.

So while I'm very pleased and excited, I'm a little worried about backsliding so we're going to keep on with the Miralax for the time being.

Annekevdbroek, can you write more about your tapering-off plan?


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Tapering off Miralax: My son has been on Miralax for years. The full adult dose is a little more than 4 teaspoons. I start with 4 teaspoons and then reduce the dose every few weeks, v-e-r-y slowly, by a 1/2 teaspoon in each step. Tapering over the course of several months. If he starts to skip a day of pooping I will back up or hold at the steady dose longer until things stabalize. This is coupled with getting him to eat "soft poopy foods" like Cracklin Oatbran (which he loves), fruit, and oatmeal.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

p-chan-your son's circle poops cracked me up-my oldest used to say that about hers!







That's fabulous about his progress, hooray!!!! You must be so relieved. I actually did the m&m thing today-but dd was not having just a couple, I had to give her a few of them! I don't care at this point-she can have a whole bag if she actually does it.









annekevdbroek-good luck-I hope the Miralax is soon a thing of the past for you guys. I look forward to that, too!


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## bryannastreasure (Nov 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VBMama* 
snip}} Also, gack, what a mess to clean up with the medication (he's still in diapers)! Anyone have good tips for easier cleaning?

My son will be 4 in January and has had troubles pooping for at least a year, probably more. Started with infant size glycerine suppositories, they stung. followed by months of Fletcher's Senna Laxative. Changed his diet, limited milk to 1 cup, no cheese/bannanas or other binding things, and increased fiber where I could. He is a smart kid with no other medical problems.

We started on Miralax after a particularly bad episode of 11 days no poop plus 24 hours no pee, impacted, 102 fever with febrile seziures. ER visits, abdominal xrays, MRI and referral to the Encopresis Clinic at Childrens Hospital. started on Miralax about 3 months ago with 2x17g daily doses mixed in juice. That first blowout was simply amazing!! saturated the pullup, pants, throw rug etc. I just grabbed him by the armpits and put him in the tub, clothes and all. Stripped all his clothes and pullup into the garbage can, rinsed him with the shower then ran the bath. Thank gods we were home. He did that several times a day for several days. Then tapered down to 17g per day. I went out and bought a case of size 6 Huggies Supreme fitted diapers and use these when ever I anticipate a blowout. Generic pullups were not designed for this kind of capacity. ;}

I keep a calendar posted next to the changing table and write a shorthand note with every poop.

Tiny/Small/Medium/Large/Huge
ChocolateMilk/Soft/Oatmeal/Hard
Diaper/Potty

some days might have several THD or perhaps HCMD. I look for patterns. If he has several Tiny's in one day then he is withholding and I adjust the miralax to get the oatmeal consistency the Encoporesis Clinic (and I) wants. I missed 2 halfsize doses at Thanksgiving and we are back to having backups again. Today was day 5 and I will have to give him a full dose.

He no longer does his 'poop dance' of holding onto furniture, dancing on tippietoes, and screaming. now he gets real quiet and hides and answers 'no' to are you poopy? Still frustrating. He pooped 3 times on the potty last month, but won't pee. and not once since.

Pooping shouldn't hurt. but I can't do it for him.

I found a preschool that will take him in diapers, but to move to the next group of 4's and 5's, he will need to be reliable in underpants.

Love and Light,
Bryanna








amazed there are more mom's in the same boat. I felt like the only one.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

bryanna-welcome, and







.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

hi all, been lurking lately, morning sickness is really kicking my tail! wanted to say hi to everyone new, glad you found the thread, it really helps me even though lately I haven't posted much. Bryanna, what a great notation system! my ds turned 4 a little over a week ago. we're in a withholding phase again, same as you, because we missed some doses. my guy knows I'm vested in getting him to drink that particular drink and resists, and since I've been feling like crap it's been hard to keep up. I used to think I was the only one, too-- it's very isolating, isn't it? I actually found out when we finally discovered miralax that there really are others-- the pharmacist's daughter has the same problem. I was sooo relieved. she also told me, you wouldn't believe how many people come in here for this stuff, quite a lot, actually. but no one talks about it! of course, the problem is (as we've talked about here before), if you try talking about it to someone who hasn't been through it, it can be such an annoying waste of breath!

anyway, just wanted to pipe up briefly, now back to feeling queasy...


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

Hi all, and welcome to the new folks. Bryanna, I love the elegance of your poop tracking system! I'm also struck by how similar our kids' poop dances are. Sounds like tiptoes, laps, high-stepping, and hollering are pretty common.

Goddessjulia, when are you due? Hope you feel better soon.

We have had an unprecedented 7 straight days of pooping in the potty. Some days have more drama than others. I think that this is just my son's personality--once he finally decides to do something, he does it and doesn't look back--but there were a few new things that I wanted to share:
1. He's had Trader Joe's Organic Oats and Flax Instant Oatmeal every morning this week (note to self: start making from scratch).
2. I have been more careful about measuring the same amount of Miralax every day.
3. That amount is a bit less than we'd been using for a while. With a higher dose, it seemed like the urgency to poo was at times overwhelming and scary, and there were some leakage problems. With the new slightly lower dose (2 teaspoons/day), the poo is still soft and he can handle the whole thing better.
4. We're talking about it less. Waaaaay less. If I feel the need to point out the situation, I'll talk about time to go to the bathroom, but not mention poop. Other times I'll just whisper to him, "I know you know what to do."
5. We upgraded from chocolate chips to M&M's









Must run, baby calls....


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Welcome to all the new folks! We are continuing our successful tapering of the Miralax but have had a few no poop days (everything coming out fine the next day though). So for the time I'm holding at 2.5 teaspoons as his system adjusts. However, we have had 3 or 4 weeks now of poop in the potty! YAY! We even have had poop at SeaWorld and a friend's house in the potty.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

p-chan, so glad to hear of your success! I hope we follow you soon! I'm due july 11, nearly 10 weeks along now. hopefully no more than 2 more weeks of torture







I'll think the queasiness has eased up a bit, then I'll have a rough day... the worst part is that I can't figure out what I want to eat-- nothing sounds good, but if I don't eat it's worse, and yet if I choose the wrong thing that's just as bad! oh well, I asked for it


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## Leiahs (Jul 29, 2005)

I haven't posted here since my intro post, but I came across the thread again, and I'm happy to say that we're beyond withholding now. DD goes to the potty all by herself, surprising me quite often, and then yells down the hall that, "MOMMY!!!! I Poooooooooooooooped!" And then she expects me to jump and clap for her, it's her biggest reward







Every now and then she'll still expect a sticker and candy when she's all done, (or like today, "Mommy, I pooped 3 poops yesterday, now I can have milk!") but that's not her motivation. She's finally learning to work with her own body, instead of against it. And I've stopped keeping pooping charts. It all feels sooo freeing!! And everyone is so much happier









That all said, she still has very hard/pebbly poops. I was happy to see a recommendation for fiber gummy bears. I will DEFINITELY be looking for those!! DD loves taking vitamins and such... I bet a fiber vitamin will do just the trick for her. Or, I hope, anyway.

Best of luck to the rest of you mamas who are still dealing with the poop craziness! I dealt with it for 9 months...and it felt like an eternity. Soft & willing poopy vibes to all your kiddos!


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## northern_sunshine (Mar 15, 2006)

Reading this, I felt like I was home (though I kinda wish I didn't!)

We've battled constipation in DD since she was probably under a year old. For a long time we couldn't convince our Dr that she needed something. Dr just kept saying "more fiber, more fiber." You can only get so much fiber into a small child and DD's diet has always been pretty good. She loves raw veggies, salads and loves water. We've done corn syrup, prune juice, senna, benefiber, suppositories, enemas (under Dr supervision).

We've had x-rays (she was once so backed up you could see where her colon was stretched out and the poop was backed clear up her right side) and done emergency room visits because she was in such pain and had poops that were so large it made me want to cry thinking about her having to pass such a thing! We have had a LOT of leakage (encoprecis) and at one point she was impacted.

We finally found a Dr. who would listen, sent us to a pediatric specialist who put her on lactulose. What a life saver!! As long as she doesn't miss a dose (15ml 2x daily), she does really well (with not being constipated, she now has a "mental block" about pooping on the potty so we're working on that). She still gets backed up REALLY easily.

The only food we've found that really has an (positive) effect on her "poop status" is watermelon, which she loves. Must be all that extra water or something. Dairy tends to back her up so we limit her consumption and all but cut it off when she does get backed up.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

hi everyone-welcome northern sunshine-that's great news, leiahs! I'm still looking for those fiber gummi bears! hope you're feeling better, goddessjulia.


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## bryannastreasure (Nov 28, 2006)

Carlin asks for his 'tablet' when we get in the car. a chewable orange flavored 2gr fiber tablet. he loves them and I limit him to 2-3 per day, depending on what else he eats.

I'm headed to the healty food store to look at magnesium supplements.
love and light,
Bryanna


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## Leiahs (Jul 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leiahs* 
I haven't posted here since my intro post, but I came across the thread again, and I'm happy to say that we're beyond withholding now.

Somehow I managed to post too soon.









: We were problem free for weeks, and within days of posting this, she's having trouble again. She was pooping just the other day when suddenly it was "stuck"....DH and I interpreted this as meaning that it was halfway out and she lost the urge to push. Within a minute, she got the rest out, but she wasn't happy. She didn't want us to jump and clap like she's usually eager for us to do after she poops. And since then, no poop. I've been loading her up with our usual supplements and fiber Yummibears, too (boy she loves those things, but I haven't been able to see how well they work yet!), and have sat her on the potty for quite a long time every day since, but she's not going. Siiiiigh. I think the stuck thing scared her again. I'm feeling about ready to force her body into diarrhea just so she doesn't start getting backed up on a regular basis.









ETA: A few hours after posting this, I had DD have some potty time again to see if she could get some poop out. I have to leave her alone in the bathroom when she poops - otherwise she will just sit there forever talking to me. She only goes with privacy. So anyway, within a minute of me leaving her, she just starts screeching. TMI to follow: I run back to her, and her poop is STUCK. I tried to get her to push more, thinking she was just scared and had stopped pushing, but she made audible grunts at least 3 times, and that poop was not moving a bit. I kinda freaked out a little bit....but I had to do what I could to try and help her, she was really distressed. I tried grabbing the poop that was already out with some toilet paper to pull it out, but it ended up only breaking off the parts that were outside. She grunts some more, it still isn't moving, and her skin around the poop looks to me like a perineum stretched to max with a baby crowning. I couldn't think of anything else to do to help her quickly, so I put pressure on either side of the mass, and it started coming out. After a couple seconds, it popped all the way out, and it was just so big and sooooooo firm. I tried squishing it later, and it took quite a bit of force to squish it at all. All I could think of was that it reminded me of biology classes back in high school, seeing videos of elephant poop, I think, where it's just big, hard, and almost fibrous when broken open.

She sobbed a little after I took her off the potty, and I had her sit in a very warm bath until she felt like getting out about 45 minutes later. And she was happy the rest of the day.

But last night I could not fall asleep, I was just feeling so guilty over what happened on the potty...how distressed and in pain she was. I think it was my fault. I let her have a bunch of extra fiber (yummibears AND benefiber in her drinks), thinking it would soften things up, but after reading more online, I think she just plain didn't have enough water for her body to deal with all the extra fiber. All it did was make everything harder. And I felt so awful and afraid I was going to have nightmares if I fell asleep. Today my goal is to get her to drink 1/3 - 1/2 cup of water every half hour. I made a chart for her, and she gets to put a sticker on it when she finishes her water. And we're also eating mostly fruits like grapes and watermelons today when she gets hungry. I hope she won't have to have such a very large, hard, difficult, painful bowel movement again. I just feel terrible.

So if anyone else decides to try some fiber supplements like I did, please make sure you are adding a good amount of liquids into your DC's diet, too!!

I tried having her sit on the potty after lunch, but she was just too tired and asked (!!) for a nap instead. Will try again later in the afternoon.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

Leiahs! I've soooo btdt, wish I hadn't. for us, it was after a couple of weeks' retention, and the only reason he was on the potty was because the straining was so obvious that I was able to get him there. it was like labor coaching, with him leaning on me in a hug-like position and me saying "push! push! push!" I was positively stunned to see poop that big come out of that little bottom!







that has happened 2, maybe 3 times, but not since the miralax, thank goodness.

p-chan, I'm following your lead (I think it was you?!) and measuring the miralax carefully now. we're down to 2 tsp daily, which seems to be keeping things soft enough. I'm going to stick with that for a while to make sure I don't cause a backslide from dropping it again too soon. and, some good news, too-- we've had some true successes with the potty! I'm not getting too excited, because I know how this goes, but he has probably pooped on the potty, completely independently, about 4 times in the past week. he's very proud and finally is starting to believe me when I say he can do it (that was a HUGE hurdle). one time he was playing and stopped to say, "I think I need to go to the bathroom," then went. if I hadn't been lying down I might have fainted!







so I think that's a great sign that his nerve endings, and possibly the whole mechanism, are beginning to recover from the "megacolon" situation.







:

I'm starting to feel a little better too-- I actually cleaned yesterday and went shopping and ran errands today! that's more than I've done in a month!!







I'm beginning to consider that this little bugger might actually stick around, and I might live to tell the tale!









oh, and for those who celebrate it, happy solstice!!


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## Leiahs (Jul 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goddessjulia* 







Leiahs! I've soooo btdt, wish I hadn't. for us, it was after a couple of weeks' retention, and the only reason he was on the potty was because the straining was so obvious that I was able to get him there. it was like labor coaching, with him leaning on me in a hug-like position and me saying "push! push! push!" I was positively stunned to see poop that big come out of that little bottom!







that has happened 2, maybe 3 times, but not since the miralax, thank goodness.

Thank you for the hugs







We had a better poop day the day after I posted this - no getting stuck! She is happily drinking more water, not every half hour like I planned, but frequently enough that I'm happy. She likes the chart I made her. And I made one for myself, because hey, I need more water too!

We seem to struggle with finding a good time to have her sit on the potty for a while. If I wait too long, she's saying she's too tired and wants to go to bed. Or nap. When do you guys try to focus on some potty time? Or do you just leave it up to the kids all the time? DD seems to be most ready to poop after lunch or after dinner, but both those times are also so close to nap/bedtime.


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

We've just recently hit upon 2:30 as a good time to sit on the potty. My son has always been an afternoon pooper, and he doesn't nap anymore, so 2:30 is a good time. If he doesn't poop then, I've had good luck doing the following: on the way home from our afternoon outing (between 4 and 5), I tell him that we'll go straight to the bathroom and poop once we're home. He'll always at least try, and 9 times out of 10 he'll poop.

We've had some ups and downs, but we're pretty regular here, and it's always on the potty. He says he'll poop on the big toilet when he's 14! I'm a little worried that it's ME telling him it's time to do it (he rarely takes the lead anymore), but he's pooping happily, which is more than I ever thought possible at this stage.


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## robinkate (May 5, 2005)

Things had been going really well for us, but I started giving dd yummi bears and we just got over the worst constipation ever. Milk of magnesia didn't help, glycerine suppositories didn't help, and finally we had to give her an enema.







:
For us, I guess fiber isn't the problem. I am really focusing on getting her to drink more water now, wondering if she has not been getting enough.

Good luck and happy holidays to all other moms struggling with this! I am glad to read the other posts, because I feel so alone with this problem.


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## Leiahs (Jul 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *robinkate* 
I started giving dd yummi bears and we just got over the worst constipation ever.

Ohh, I'm so so so sorry that you had major constipation caused by the yummi bears, too. That really really stinks.







: It's so strange to me that fiber causes constipation for mine and your DC, but not for the person who recommended it in the first place IRL to the poster in this thread...and also to my good friend's children. She actually called me up one day to tell me how to fix my daughter's problem, because her children had gotten into adult fiber tablets, and had several each before she found them, and then they had diarrhea a few hours later. Why oh why does the problem have to be so different for some kids? Wouldn't it be so nice to have a simple answer for everyone!

Re: pooping time...maybe I'll have to try potty time right after nap time to make sure she's not tired enough to fall asleep on the potty.


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## mum19 (Apr 19, 2006)

Hi ladies! Ive been posting all over the place for help with my DS issues and april dawn sent me the link to this thread. Thank you!

Ive read all the posts and feel better knowing im not totally alone in this even though i often feel it.

This is our story, please take the time to read and help if you can.

My DS is almost 4 years old. He never had problems doing a poop until I started trying to get him to do it on the potty/toilet instead of in a diaper, but he always refused and demanded his diaper back on. So I went along with that from about age 2.6 until 3.4 (approx). never had any problems pee'ing on the toilet standing up by himself -still fine there.

At 3.4 (ish) he finally pooped on the toilet but hated sitting on it like it was uncomfy so i got a padded toilet seat cover thing for toddlers but he still says he doesnt like it. he kept pooping on the toilet daily or every other day until a few weeks ago.

He started saying his bottom was itchy so i checked and he had worms







: . he probably picked them up from another kid at pre school. anyway i got him a tablet for kids to treat it, but it gave him bad cramps and diarohea the next day which smelt so bad (seriously foul). since then, hes not wanted to poop, he holds it in until it hurts his tummy everywhere, then he tells me hes poorly and wants to go to bed...its so upsetting. i try telling him you hurt cos u need to poo it out your tummy is very full of poop lets try push it out. come on u can do it etc etc....

well its just stayed like this. only he may have a tear in his bottom because he screams out in pain when he finally cannot hold the poop in any longer and has major cramps/spasms im guessing, where he HAS to push it out. he was screaming out in pain during the whole bm process until it was all out for about 2 weeks when he pooped maybe 3 times.

The last time he pooped was 3 days ago during the night in his diaper, i woke up hearing him screaming and crying so i went in his bedroom, he was on his hands and knees doing a poo in his diaper in bed. I comforted him and talked soothingly etc to try help. This time he screamed and cried at the beginning when he started pushing out the first bit, then he was very uncomfortable but not screaming in pain for the rest of it. so that seems to be a slight improvement from the previous few times right???

I keep putting vaseline on his butthole...but that seems to have no effect, it still seems to really hurt when pushing any poop out. I tried having a real close up look but couldnt see any outside tears or spots, tho his bottom skin is red and sore looking (not majorly tho) i put zinc and castor cream on that. been putting vaseline on his butthole morning and night. he wont let me touch it either like its sore inside??

he eats oatmeal for breakfast every day and has 1 or 2 fruits a day, plus his poo is not hard so i dont think its constipation. (the first half inch is hard but i think thats cos he holds it in several days as the rest is very soft)

im trying to get him to drink more juice/water right now, cos he only used to drink 1 glass in a whole day. how much do yours drink??

i give him a warm bath every night which ...sometimes/occasionally makes him have a BM. but he will still hold it in and cry/stress about it instead of pooping it out. i told him its ok to poop in the bath but he still wont.

i try putting his legs up into his chest for a few seconds and making them do the cycling motion for a minute or 2 and it sometimes make him have a BM but he STILL holds it in.

then i tried fig syrup called SENNA (califig) laxative which made him go within minutes the first day then a few days later tried it again (same amount) but it took a day to work. i decided not to give him it anymore because it was clear it was giving him bad bowel cramps to force him to go and it hurt him...making him still scared to poop in the end. but he was forced to. not gentle enough in my opinion. ive taken it myself and ...talk about explosive painful diarohea..i wouldnt take it again so i sure wont make my son.

he had a real bad cold and high temperature during the week after he had worms, so i was giving him a lot of childrens painkillers/fever reducing medicine for around 10 days. which afterwards i was told causes constipation. so i thought once i stop giving him that, then he would be 'regular' again and it wouldnt hurt him to poop. but since stopping medicine it didnt change.

ive been going crazy, so upset and distraught not knowing what to do. im the type to panic. i cried at night when he was sleeping over this. im a young single parent so ive had to deal with it on my own. its been awful.

then.............
someone suggested LACTULOSE. which i never even heard of before. i bought some over the counter at the pharmacy. gave DS the highest amount which was 5 -5ml spoonfuls daily for the first 3 days. then 3 spoonfuls maximum for however many more days they need it. well after the first day on it he pooped a big one (that was in the diaper at night 3 days ago). now we are on day 4 of taking the lactulose and he HAS NOT POOPED SINCE. Im hoping he will poop today/tonight.

i dont know what to do please please help me *cries*

i forgot to add...hes allergic to cows milk. thought i should mention that as many have said dairy can cause constipation. it cant be that with us. he drinks soya milk in his oatmeal for breakfast and thats about it, occasionally has a glass of it in the evening. or rice milk instead. and i cut bananas out his diet 2 days ago just incase it helps since i read they can cause constipation.

help


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

Hi Mum19. Glad you found the pooping thread!

My DD1 started having her problems following a stomach bug. The diarrhea was so unpleasent she started holding it in. It lasted a few weeks, then we got her going just about every day. Then she had another very loose poop, maybe not technically diarrhea, but it reminded her of before and the problem returned.

Thankfully, in our case I just had to up her water and fiber intake and encourage her daily to poop. DH is really the hero because he'd start joking around about pooping with her to the point she was laughing so hard she couldn't hold it in anymore. Sometimes she still insists we stand in the bathroom with her and tell jokes until she poops.

I wish I had more suggestions for you. It might be good to take him to a doctor and have things checked out. Esp if he's in that much pain. DD1 cried a lot when she had to go, too, but it was mostly fear that it was going to hurt because she'd been so plugged up after the first time she was constipated that it did hurt quite a lot.

I'm happy to say that my DD seems to be past this stage. Though, like I said, she does still want us to be with her in the bathroom telling jokes. We even had another stomach bug a few weeks ago. I put her in a pull-up while she was in the worst of the diarrhea and vomiting, and I feared the constipation would return, but it didn't. She's back to normal.


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## robinkate (May 5, 2005)

mum19,

I know how stressful it is, waiting and waiting to see what will happen. It sounds to me like you are on the right track, keeping his stool soft with the lactulose, but if he is still in a lot of pain, maybe something else is going on. Have you asked your doctor to look at him?

It helps me to have a plan for when dd goes without a poop for a few days. I know, because of her pattern, that after 3 days she is going to need some extra help. Until now, a glycerine suppository always worked, this last time I had to give her Fleets enema for Children. You can get both of those at the drugstore, but I would ask the doctor first in case there is something else they can recommend. Maybe there is a cream that could help his bottom. Do you think he might have hemorrhoids?


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## mum19 (Apr 19, 2006)

hey april and robin thanks for replying so fast.

i just made him an emergency doctors appointment for in a couple of hours today.

and he just pooped a giant one in the bath!







im relieved he finally pushed it out today even though he was crying and screaming during it. im starting to think maybe hes scared of it hurting so he screams//cries but it doesnt actually hurt him? its hard because hes still too young to explain it properly to me.

im still going to this doctors appointment today. i doubt the doctor will be of any help (u know how doctors can be...) but it might make me feel a little better knowing ive seen a medical person about it...just incase he has any words of wisdom/advice to offer. maybe he will take a look at his butt, theres nothing to see though. hopeing he will say its likely a cut on the inside which is getting better slowly or something. and to keep giving him the lactulose.

its just so upsetting and stressful going through this. ive felt like i cant cope or like im going to fall apart at certain times. under pressure to fix it for my DS but everything i try fails. can relax a bit now today that he has pooped at least.


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## mum19 (Apr 19, 2006)

well like i thought..the doctors trip was not useful. he basically said continue giving him lactulose but not for too long (how long is too long??) to keep the poop soft.

he said after having a bad cold/fever/cough/flu kids often get constipated cos of not eating as much cos their appetites decrease while unwell.

but he said kids painkillers medicine DOES NOT cause constipation and i told him a pharmacist told me it does! so is my doctor an idiot? sorry but they annoy me so much, they never seem to know all the stuff they should! grr

he never said anything about him being in pain crying/screaming while pushing the poop out. he said it could be a tear inside but he said he didnt want to try looking (probly good thing cos that would have hurt DS he hates when i even touch it to put vaseline on) he said as long as theres no rash outside the butthole then hes ok.

so that was pretty much it...............................


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

mum19!

the pediatrician was a useless moron for us too. ours recommended long-term use of m.o.m. which can be toxic to the nervous system, another ped. told me. good grief! I would be concerned about the pain, too. I'm surprised the dr didn't at least suggest doing some sort of scan to check that he's not impacted, that can cause pain...

we use glycolax (generic for miralax), which can be given long-term and doesn't cause the cramping pains that many other products cause. we haven't used lactulose, but I know others here have. I thought it was ok for long term use though... ??

I would avoid the glycerin suppositories since he's already having pain. they can really burn and cause severe cramping. my ds shrieks his head off when he gets those, so he doesn't get them anymore.

it does sound like something is wrong, maybe some micro-tears on the inside or hemorrhoids. you could squirt his bum with some witch hazel (no need to rub it on or try to get it inside, just douse him and it will find its way







) to help with hemorrhoids... there's a really great salve called "green wonder salve" made by red moon herbs that's great for soothing sore bottoms as well as any other minor cuts/abrasions. they are at www.redmoonherbs.com . that has healed some really nasty diaper rashes overnight for ds.

keep asking questions and searching, you'll eventually find out what works for your child. we've all felt horrible about this problem that it seems like no one else has-- be gentle with yourself, too! good luck!!


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## mum19 (Apr 19, 2006)

thanks, i will definately think about those tips. right now im hoping it sorts itself out and gets better, while i keep giving him the lactulose a few more days..maybe weeks, not sure yet.

today he didnt poop but there was some on his butt almost on his pants, so he obviously had needed to go at some point in the day and held it in instead....damn. he also said he had stomach ache a few times, but he seems to get that daily unfortunately









hopefully he will poop tomorrow, i'll encourage him to do it in the bath again, even though its nasty to clean up afterwards, being in the warm water seems to give him a BM and yesterday he did the poop in there.

hope everyone else is doing ok in this area......


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

Does anyone know for sure if Milk of Magnesia is toxic for the nervous system? We've been using it for awhile.

If DD1 was egg/cow milk intolerant (possibly allergic) during the first 1 to 1 1/2 year of nursing, how likely is it that dairy could be constipating her if she is otherwise asymptomatic now? If a dairy allergy is suspected, is a total elimination diet absolutely necessary or is it possible that simply cutting back would be helpful?

Here's a strange question, has anyone here ever suspected one particular food as a trigger? In our case I am starting to wonder about our "go to" lunch for her, "Beefaroni" which would have some incidental dairy.

Has anyone heard of "Aunt Sandy's Secret Poopie Cookies Recipes - Plus A Whole Lot More On How to Live Life Constipation Free"? It's a downloadable e-book that costs about $15.00. For that price I'd be willing to buy it at the bookstore on a gamble but you have to go through their site. I don't think you can get it from a well recognized site like Amazon. Here is a link to their site.

http://www.oroselket.com/webebooks/h...nstipation.htm

Otherwise does anyone have any tasty high fiber / ground flax seed / flax seed oil / Etc. cookie recipes that might appeal to a toddler and "get her moving", so to speak?

Also, can anyone tell me more about OTC Maltsupex. A covering Pediatrician recommended it once and I never looked into it. I see a couple of people have mentioned it here but more people seem to be using Miralax or Lactulose by prescription.

TIA,
~Cath


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## mum19 (Apr 19, 2006)

CathMac I just wanted to let you know, I use lactulose but not on prescription. Yes you can get it on prescription, but you can also buy it over the counter at the pharmacy/chemists. So you should be able to get it, if you want.

I decided to keep using lactulose instead of trying milk of magnesia, because a friend said m.o.m is too harsh on kids and gives them bad cramps. i dont know if thats true but im not risking it as lactulose seems to be helping for now.

please poop today DS!


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## mum19 (Apr 19, 2006)

well ds had tummy ache all day yesterday







i tried to explain yes your tummy is full of poop and you need to push it out into the toilet, diaper or bath, to make it feel better.

gave him a bath in the afternoon, made him have a bowel move but he refused to do any in the bath..i thought he would since he did the last time.

he had tummy ache still when i put him to bed in a diaper and he finally pooped in it a few minutes later







he yelled out at first but was ok the rest of the time he was still pooping. so it definately seems to be getting less sore.

i know we have gone back a step because hes now pooping in his diaper and not on the toilet...but at least hes pooping. thats a step better than him holding it in for days and days. fingers crossed he continues to do it in his diaper at night then soon hopefully can try getting him to use the toilet again.

continuing with the lactulose.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

it was a pediatrician who told me not to use m.o.m. for more than a week because of the toxicity; I verified it by looking it up. because magnesium exists in solution (such as when it's in the body) as Mg2+ (an ion with a plus-2 charge, for all the non-chemists out there







) it can replace calcium (also a plus-2 ion) but it's the wrong size, so it causes problems, including, possibly, permanent neurological damage. needless to say I was pretty miffed that the first pediatrician had recommended it without giving me any warning







: I was never very successful in getting ds to take it anyway, and ended up wearing it more than anything







BUT, to reassure you, I think you would know if this type of damage occurred-- it's been a while, but as I recall the symptoms were very obvious and of the "sudden onset" variety. however, once that happens, it's not reversible. that's why I dropped it.

regarding a dairy allergy, from what I understand, you do have to *totally* eliminate it for several weeks, including all those hidden places you wouldn't think of. even a tiny bit can produce the allergic response (although this depends on the kid). some parents have found that their dairy-sensitive kid could handle raw milk just fine, fwiw. eggs, as you mentioned, can be a culprit, and also wheat, particularly wheat gluten.

and yes, I have suspected certain trigger foods along the way, but ultimately our primary problem was just the withholding. right now we're still progressing towards potty usage with very mushy miralax poo







many days he doesn't go to the bathroom until after he starts pooping, and there's still a good bit of mess, but he's at least finishing on the potty most times... it's been a long hard road!







:


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

For now we are still using Milk of Magnesia (MOM). I did a little research and am somewhat reassured. Apparently it is only an issue in the event of kidney failure (as magnesium is disposed of through the kidney) and we aren't giving the maximum dose.

However, I am looking for alternatives so perhaps we can reduce the dosage.

DH picked up some Bob's Red Mill High Fiber with flax and we have been giving her undiluted apple juice. One or the other of these things seem to be doing the trick so at least we don't have to increase the MOM dosage.

I have given her different versions of Bob's Red Mill hot wheat cereals before without results this dramatic so it's either the flax or the apple juice that's making a real difference.

Hope this info helps someone else.
~Cath


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

Our big problem is withholding too, and our triggers, instead of food, seem to be situational. For example, we'd been on a good run of pooping, but we had out-of-town guests and everything was thrown off. He even started withholding pee. It was so frustrating to go backwards, and we had to adjust our family's plans because my son's behavior was just so atrocious.

I think it's possible he caught a little stomach bug, because his poop started getting realllly runny--way beyond a miralax poo. I've stopped the Miralax and it's still pretty runny. When it gets that bad, I think it's very distressing to him and even harder to hold.

Now the guests have gone, our regular routine (morning preschool) has started again, consistency is improving, and we've had two good poops in a row. I'm crossing my fingers for more success.


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## erikacarlson (Jan 20, 2007)

Hi,
New to this thread but not to constipation issues. I've finally decided that miralax is the way to go, as we have an on-again-off-again problem that seems unrelated to dietary issues. My DD is almost 2 and eats whole grains, oatmeal, veggies, fruit, and still has issues. She doesn't drink much (like maybe 4 oz a day!) but is still nursing. Does anyone else have the issue where nursing seems to be part of the witholding pattern? My dd sometimes nurses and then, when relaxed, gets up and poops (standing up always). But other times she seems to be squirming (gotta poop) and then really wants to nurse and then doesn't poop.

Also, M.O.M. can apparently increase constipation problems if the child doesn't drink enough, whereas Miralax doesn't do that. Of course more liquids are good, but we had gotten to 1 T of M.O.M. a day for 3 days and no poop, b/c she was a bit dehydrated! Horrible to think you are doing the right thing and maybe it is making it worse! Ditto for the fiber - I think that people who give their child mostly happy meals and white pasta with cheese are the ones who need to add fiber, not those who are already having whole grains, veggies, fruits, etc. We gave dd prunes and it didn't seem to help!

Another question about miralax - we had luck (though sporadic) with flax seed oil, and at first the doc told us to stick with it and add M.O.M. But now she says stop the oil and just do miralax. I can't imagine how flax seed oil could be bad, and if it helps with the poop so we can do less miralax, that seems good. Ideas? I'm going to stick with a smaller dose (1t instead of 1T) for a while, but when we wean from the miralax, it would be good to have the oil there to help for a while.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

welcome erika! I don't see why you would need to stop the oil either. did the dr give a reason? we've found fluid intake to be very important too, and also difficult to push-- ds is very resistant!

pchan, I meant to respond to your last post. disruption of our routine is disastrous too. do we have the same kid??







I hear ya!

we've been having relative success recently, but ds has gotten backed up again. we accidentally missed the miralax 2 days in a row, but didn't have any problems at first, so I decided to leave off the med. and see what happened. he continued to go, in the potty, for a week! but then he finally got stopped up again, so we're back on it. we are now able to sometimes skip one day without much ill effect if any. I give him 2 tsp. if I could shift his diet a little more, I think the weaning would be possible, but for now I think I need to just be satisfied with the results we're getting. and, cold turkey doesn't work, which I knew, but decided to confirm by experiment, I guess!







patience, patience...


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

I would be OK with flax with the miralax too (unless it caused discomfort or extremely weird poo), because it has its own nutritional value. It seems like a regular food, unlike MOM.

So, we've had a spate of success lately! At the first sight of really runny poo (sickness, perhaps, although no other symptoms), I stopped giving miralax. We had 2 no-lax days, and then I started on a new campaign of a tablespoon of ground flax seed in breakfast oatmeal, plus two gummy bear fiber supplements (that someone recommended upthread) at lunch. This combination, plus plenty of water, has led to normal-looking, formed-but-soft-enough poo. My son poops about every other day, and the amount of drama is much less. It's gone from an entire terrible afternoon trying to hold in runny poop, to an hour or so in denial that he actually excretes like everyone else does and that the poop will eventually exit his body.

Our other big news is that he does it in the big toilet (not the little potty) now. We were caught at a friend's house with no other option, and after doing it once he's OK with it.

The bad news is, there is still a lot of persuasion going on to just poop already. He's still getting used to normal poop, and says it feels weird and doesn't like it when it feels stuck halfway out (keep pushing, we tell him). He often has a little speck of poop in his underwear by the time he's convinced that there is no other option.

Must run, I have a waking baby, happy poo wishes to all.


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

UGH! Just when I thought I found a way to get ds to poop more regularly, he is retaining for more than 3 days again!







I think he is either not getting enough flax seed oil every day or he is just becoming better at holdng it. I may have to try M.O.M. But he is not constipated, his poop is always soft, never hard. If I give him M.O.M. what will happen - and how much do you give a 3 1/2 year old?







:


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rox5266* 
I may have to try M.O.M. But he is not constipated, his poop is always soft, never hard. If I give him M.O.M. what will happen - and how much do you give a 3 1/2 year old?







:

maybe nothing-- MOM did not help my expert retainer pass anything. remember that it doesn't have to be hard to be constipation-- if he's retaining, he's probably constipated as a result of that. I can't remember what dose we used with the MOM; it's been over 2 years since I tried that. I had better luck with mag citrate, a fizzy liquid solution in the same section of the pharmacy. ds liked it and didn't fight me about it. I think the dose on that was 1/4 cup every day until everything clears out, usually no more than 2-3 days. but check with your ped. to be sure! I'm not sure if I'm remembering right. I hated using that stuff because it only comes artificially colored and sweetened with saccharin!!







: now that we use miralax we don't ever need any of those other remedies, but of course he's dependent on the miralax.









this week has been a hoot. ds and I had the worst stomach bug I've ever had in my LIFE, bar none. so here I am, 17 weeks pregnant and puking like my body is trying to turn itself inside out, and my 4 y.o. is doing the same. now he's a little bit afraid to eat, and then he threw up again last night, 3 days after I thought he was over it! so as if I wasn't a nervous wreck before







but I guess the good news is that he's not having much trouble pooping and he hasn't had miralax since sunday... I just want him to be well, and stay that way. ugh.


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

So he has started pooping - in his diaper.







: He was almost completely trained to poop in the potty, I don't know why he is having this regression. Is it because he has recently ( as in this past week) stopped napping? Thanks for the info goddessjulia! I don't think my ds will drink anything fizzy. Maybe I'll just give him a double dose of Floridix Magnesium in his juice. But I am worried about him etting too much mag, maybe I'll do the Floridix Cal/Mag.


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

For those who are using the fiber gummy bears - where do you purchase them? I have looked at our local Whole Foods and Central Market (like Whole Foods) and can't find them. What is the brand name? I want to try adding them to DS's daily routine in order to continue our taper of the Miralax.

Thanks!


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## christiab (Jan 13, 2004)

Fiber Bears are great! My nephew's gastroenterologist recommended them for him years ago, so I knew that they worked when DS started having "issues".

Yummi Bears Fiber is the name of the product. I have been buying them online at www.vitaglo.com. ($6.50) They had the best prices last time I checked. My Whole Foods carries them ($8), the local vitamin store has them, too. I just found it was cheaper to order them online.

http://www.yummibears.com/modules.ph...artid=9&page=1

The other thing that works well for us is FiberSure. It is inulin, which is a vegetable fiber and a prebiotic. One tsp = 5 grams of fiber. I mix it in pancake batter, cookies, you name it and it doesn't affect the taste or texture. It also mixes well in drinks. DS will drink it better than Miralax-laced stuff. Miralax tastes like plastic, IMO.

I am soooo glad to know I'm not alone with a poop-challenged kid!!


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

Where can I get the FiberSure? Do they carry it at Whole Foods? I would rather give my ds that then Miralax, and I am unsure about the Magnesium, but the FiberSure sounds lke something I can put on his juice (where I hide everything I want himn to take







).


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## christiab (Jan 13, 2004)

FiberSure is pretty much everywhere mainstream(Target, grocery store, Costco, etc). It is over by the laxatives in the pharmacy section.

I'm glad you asked the question, b/c I found a website w/ a free sample and a $2 coupon!!







Fibersure.com


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## Jmo780 (May 3, 2006)

My Ds 8 has chronic constipation. He has dot have am enema about 8 months ago at the ER~Put him on Glycolax and stopped it after 3 weeks...BAD decision!

Took him back to the doctor recently, she said he needs to be on the Glycolax/Miralax for at least 1 year. 1x per day for a year. UGH. But I'll have to say for the month we have gotten thru with the glycolax, it is like he is a new kid! NO poop problems at all!

It was to the point where he was smelling very bad in school and the teacher contacted us, and we had to send wipes/undies to school with him-He was getting teased and I was afraid of CPS b/c of them thinking he was neglected. It was THAT bad.

I am amazed at what this stuff has done for him. He gets 17 ml per day (Normally right after school with his snack)

It was very very stressful for us all. (Laundry, smelling so so bad, him feeling emberrassed etc...)

The doctor basically told us exactly what poster #2 said!


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

I haven't read the rest of the responses. But I have a couple of things you could try. More vitamin C, some oil in her diet to keep her bowels lubricated - cod liver oil is what I use, a probiotic like Effective Microorganisms or L.Reuteri.

This is a good sneaky way to get some extra fibre in to their diet - plus it is aloe vera so it has some other benefits that way. http://importfood.com/rtfo1001.html I pick this up in the chinese food market.

As to the potty being scary, and her holding so as not to use her diapers - could YOU hold her over the toilet or potty? I do EC with my kids, which is where this comes from.

You could do this a couple of different ways, but the main idea is you hold her with her back to your stomach and your hands under her knees. You can hold her over the pot, or have her put her feet on the back of the toilet/toilet seat so that she is kind of squatting.

The novelty alone might help her break the cycle.


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Hi, just joining the "please, please poop" tribe. I've read through about half the thread and all I can say is














My ds#1 is almost 3yo and has been struggled with constipation since infancy. As a newborn every Sunday afternoon became "P-day" and resulted in a blowout diaper. Needless to say we usually had a very cranky baby during church. We finally realized how bad it was after a middle of the night trip to the ER because he was in some serious stomach pain. I thought it might be appendicidis (sp?) but it turns out he was full of poop. My husband took him and apparently after the enema he said, "Ahh, my tummy doesn't hurt anymore."







He's been on Miralax for about 3 months now. All along I thought he was struggling really hard to push it out but in hindsight I think he was trying really hard to keep it in. Now the only way we know he's done something is if we hear or smell it. He isn't even bothered by a poopy diaper anymore







:

He's such a picky eater that it's hard to get fiber into him, although I don't know if it would make a huge difference. I'm adding coconut flour to his baked goods as it is super high in fiber, now the trick is to get him to eat them. When he was younger I mixed psyillium into his yogurt (don't know how great an idea that was) and had him loaded up on prune juice; it barely touched it. If 8+ oz. of prune juice don't get action in a 20 lb kid than you know something isn't right. I had to bite my tongue when an aquaintance told me to give him some fresh-squeezed orange juice and insisted that would do the trick. Anyway, I'm really glad to find some other mothers who are also struggling with this (not that I'm glad you're in this situation with your dc, but you know what I mean). It's helpful to see what has worked and what hasn't as well as other ways to deal with it. Right now all I can think of is that maybe he has a dairy or wheat sensitivity (the only two things he eats). It's good to see that other kids suffer from this "just because" and not necessarily due to allergies.

ETA: It looks like ds#2 might be following in big brothers footsteps. He only poops (aside from frequent smears) once, occasionally twice a week. Looking forward to the fun all over again.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

Rachel! sorry to welcome you here







but at least you found us! the support of this list has been so helpful to me. those who haven't btdt just do *not* get it, which can be terribly isolating! good luck with the journey!


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

Welcome to the new folks--I'm glad you found this thread, although sorry that you're going through poop drama.

Christab, thanks for the link for the mail-order gummy bears! They've been working great for us and my local Whole Foods sells them for TEN DOLLARS.


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## bryannastreasure (Nov 28, 2006)

Carlin is still on Miralax after 4 months. I have 3 months of his poop calendar.

2 weeks ago Carlin was doing great!! he had a total of 6 poops in the toilet over 5 days.

but then we all got sick. he had been in the hospital for 3 days for dehydration and seizure-like activity, following 30 hours of vomiting/diarreah. the xray then looked fine. he was barely eating or drinking. they gave him a total of 5 bolus of fluids, 2 salt and 3 with sugar. we did manage to forget to take Miralax for those first 2 days. 4 days after discharge we went to see the Encopresis clinic for his checkup and they took an Xray, he was Totally Impacted. his behavior really improved after the enema.

so how did he get impacted so quickly?? why couldn't I tell when he was impacted? I don't get it.

this week his behavior sucks, can't keep still or is so exhausted he asks to go upstairs to bed 2 hours early. very whiny and out of sorts. he gets changed at least 4-5 times a day, and every change has a tablespoon or less of poop but man, he can clear the room PPPPuuuu!

why won't he poop all at once? he is taking 1 1/2 doses of Miralax a day, 1or 2 fiber tablets at 2grams, and a AllBran granola bar at 5 grams. He gets plenty of water/juice, probably 30-40 ounces a day although once in a while I have to fight to get the first cup of water/juice/Miralax down him. and he gets 1/2 capsule of probiotic mixed with chocolate.

ok so this turned more into a vent than an update.....
but you guys are the only ones that truly understand.
love and light,
Bryanna


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

so sorry to hear, Bryanna! getting sick has thrown us off too. galen is totally stopped up-- no miralax for a week now. he threw up again last night, although he acts totally fine in between. it seems that his retention/slow metabolism has slowed him down in getting all the way over the virus. don't be too hard on yourself for the impaction happening so fast. probably his bowel is just still really stretched out, and after being sick his system will have to remember what to do. since he was empty just days before, there's obviously nothing you could have done differently. do you feel confident that his irritability is just from his constipation? I only ask that because I was just reading up on reye's syndrome because the pepto bismol I bought contains aspirin. I definitely won't be using it now. very scary stuff! anyway, irritability and vomiting can be symptoms, although it *usually* is coming on after a child has recovered from a non-stomach bug, like upper-respiratory flu and chicken pox (evidently those are the most common predecessors of reye's). so, not at all to scare you, I literally just read about it before checking email, so it's on my mind. good luck getting back to a "regular" routine!


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

Bryanna,









(Now I want to add a disclaimer that I don't know very much about impacted bowels, and that my advice is more about behavior than medical issues).

That said, when the poop does come, what consistency is it? I ask because the times I have gone overboard on Miralax/juice/etc., my son's behavior has been extra rotten. I would think that he just needed a little more help to have an easy poo; however, the urgency of a really soft poo made him act like a bear. Instead of holding in a manageable poo, he had to concentrate on keeping in a big messy one.

By scaling back on the dosage of Miralax, I was able to find the point where he was pooping just as frequently (about every other day), but with firmer poop and better behavior.


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## bryannastreasure (Nov 28, 2006)

OK, this is TMI to anyone but you guys....

Carlin's poop, when it does come is usually like soft oatmeal. It is like chocolate milk when I get up to a Miralax dose that is too much. even the GI doc said chocolate milk is too much! and the past week he hasn't really pooped, just 'touch of color' in his diaper or a couple tablespoons maximum, but frequently. Soft tan oatmeal but oh so stinky!

I have noticed, historically, that when he does poop in the potty, it is really skinny, like pencil skinny, like a kitten skinny. I thought megacolon was the opposite: toilet cloggers.

We have a 2 year old friend who poops round little rabbit pellets every day. (Sometimes I envy that...)

He has been hitting the 2 year old, shoving her down to get her toy, and when she logically retailiates he breaks down to tears almost unconsolable. He overreacts when the TV show ends. Rushes past to jump into the chair in front of you then makes a neinerneiner noise. He will ask you to make oatmeal, but if it isn't just right he 'hates it' and wants something else. He either can't stop running/jumping/spinning/dancing or is curled up somewhere almost asleep.

Can 4 year olds be depressed? writing this out makes me think of how I feel when I'm in a major depression episode... short fuse, quick to tears, wired but exhausted, with a Need to make everyone else feel just as bad.

It's frustrating because I know that most of his behavior is still 'typical 4 year old', but he is generally not typical.

Thanks guys,
Bryanna


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

I haven't read all the thread yet but wanted to commisserate.

My dd went through this. What I figured out is that she didn't like the *sensation* of poo-ing. She is now 8 and has been going once a day for years now. It's no longer a "problem" but we sure tore our hair out when she was younger, trying to figure out what was going on...


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## Rainbowbird (Jul 26, 2004)

OK, I have to confess to two things first: 1) my son's problem is not that bad, he sometimes resists pooping on the potty, but eventually will go. 2) My advice is probably meant for someone like me; someone who has a child with a very minor problem or just the start of a problem.

So, DS is almost 4 and MOST days he will poop on the potty. Sometimes, for whatever reason (he's too busy, knows that the poop is large and might hurt a bit, etc.) he will resist. Aside from good diet and encouragement, the one thing I have found that works is bribery. Or okay, let's call it a reward. M&Ms, a Hershey Kiss, etc. It convinces him to sit on the potty and once there he will do his business and we're all set. I find I have to do this about once every two weeks or so. When he was toilet training, that is how I got him to poop; with food rewards and stickers. He pee-trained very early but the poop thing took forever, he was about 3 years 4 mos. before he would even consider sitting on the potty. Eventually it became a habit and he stopped asking for the rewards. He doesn't even ask for them now; I have to remind him that he can have a chocolate if he sits on the potty.

I know this isn't exactly the best of attachment/natural parenting, but it has kept him regular and has kept it from becoming a huge behavior issue. So if anyone thinks their child is beginning to develop a phobia or control issue with the potty, you may want to consider a food reward. For us it has really worked.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

Bryanna, if you haven't read _Raising Your Spirited Child_ by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka, I **highly** recommend it. your little guy sounds a lot like mine (also 4), and I have also worried about his emotional state (and sometimes still do). the personality spectrum is broad, and when you have a little one who's on the intense end, it can be very confusing, especially when it seems all your friends have these docile little darlings! that was always my situation. another thing to consider is food sensitivities/allergies, especially artificial colors and high fructose corn syrup, along with wheat and dairy. artificial colors are a major no-no at our house. if ds has them, I know to brace myself for the tornado! without them, and with other preventive measures like heavy physical activity when I can make it happen, all is much better. feel free to pm me if you want to talk more about this topic.

on another note, I wanted to share with you all that I think the grapefruit seed extract took care of the nasty tummy bug that was just hanging on in ds. more than 48 hours with no vomit for the first time in a week and a half! woohoo!


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## bryannastreasure (Nov 28, 2006)

goddessjulia said:


> Bryanna, if you haven't read _Raising Your Spirited Child_ by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka, I **highly** recommend it. your little guy sounds a lot like mine (also 4), snip
> 
> I have read it for a friends child and Nik fit the bill, but Carlin has spent nearly 4 years as 'text book easy', mild, docile, polite and caring, never went through the typical terrible 2's, etc. it's just the past month or so that his behavior is 'spirited' and the change itself is concern-worthy to me.
> 
> ...


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

bumping....


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## bryannastreasure (Nov 28, 2006)

we went to Carlin's GI checkup yesterday. and she agreed that the program just wasnt' working. 1-2 adult doses of Miralax, 1 fiber tablet, high fiber diet and 4t of Magnesium Citrate.

Weekly he goes 5-7 days between poops. and gets so uncomfortable/irritable/out of control/bloated. so she gave him a milkandmolasses enema and it took about 20 minutes for that to work. he had goosebumps, crying, muscles contracted. just trying frantically to hold it all in. but it all came out in the end... and about 10 minutes later another bout. I had to weigh him, the big scale was just begging. he checked in at 38.5 pounds. we checked out at 36.8 pounds. and all he did was poop! holy moley!

she said to stop the miralax and magnesium citrate and go with 4T of mineral oil a day, continuing with the high fiber diet. I'm substituting flax/fish/castor oil for the mineral oil. and mixed the first dose with a yogurt smoothie.

last week he had a superpooper day and noticed his behavior swung completely around. he was able to work a 70 piece puzzle, twice. and read his books and play quietly with his princess and shrek. as the week went on with no poop, things got crazy again. so I think the behavior is directly linked to his 'fullness'.

the GI doc wants me to make an appointment with his PCP to check out the other complaints. bones hurting, headaches, exhaustion. she didn't think it had anything to do with the Miralax or with the constipation.....

have a great day,
Bryanna


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

My ds has not pooped since Tuesday!







: I wasn't as vigilant about making sure he gets his flaxseed oil every day. I still have to remember to buy that FiberSure. Anyone here ever use Babylax? I have it from a year ago when he first started this behavior but never used it. When do you think I should talk to my pedi about this?


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## robinkate (May 5, 2005)

wow, Bryanna, I don't know how your son can hold that all in! That sounds so stressful. Hope your new plan works!

Rox5266, sorry I don't know what babylax is. Is it an enema? I used one for dd when she was very constipated (turns out fiber supplements do not work for her and actually made it worse). I would call the ped. Usually I just get recommended prune juice, etc., but I feel better checking in and the doctor knows what is going on if it becomes more serious.

Dd has been doing great with poops lately, still in the diaper. She agreed to sit on her little potty with diaper on and try to poop - and sat there with her legs stretched straight out trying to hold it in! So I guess she still needs to walk around to feel comfortable.








easy poops for the little ones!


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

Yes, it's an enema. A small bulb syringe with glycerin in it. My biggest fears about using it is that he will be allergic to glycerin (I can't use glycerin soap, burns my privates) or that it will be a disaster because he won't cooperate with it.


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## robinkate (May 5, 2005)

The one I used was a saline solution,no glycerin, called Fleet's enema for children. Luckily dd cooperated. I guess you could just try it with your son and see if he would let you put it in? The doctor might have some suggestions but I'm not sure they give enemas often.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

my experience with glycerin suppositories on ds is that they do burn like mad, then cause cramping, and all-around traumatize the poor kid. I tried babylax and fleet's glycerin suppositories back in the day. miralax really saved his a$$









I was thinking of posting the other day-- reason for all to be hopeful! first, ds is finally poop-potty-trained! he will still try to retain sometimes, but it's more like a typical kid who just doesn't want to stop playing to go, rather than being a kid with a chronic constipation problem. when I see him clenching I can usually just remind him, "we do that in the potty, remember? go-go-go!" occasionally I have to cajole him a little, but he isn't battling me about it. and, perhaps more importantly, he seems to be off the miralax as well! he's semi-regular, which he has NEVER been, going every other day. sometimes he doesn't even tell me! every two weeks or so, he'll skip more than one day, and then I'm able to just give him a big dose of citrucel in yogurt (he likes that) and he goes. I haven't used the miralax in weeks! at last, some semblance of normalcy!!









best wishes for everyone to get to this point, and for us to stay here!


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

Yay goddessjulia! That's wonderful news, and just in time for the baby (or has the baby arrived?).

We have had some ups and downs here. Every time I find a solution that works, it gets stale after a few weeks and we're back to withholding--not as bad as it used to be, but still some behavior issues. Right now he's going every 2-3 days.

My latest brainstorm was to create a sign (tapping his head), that my son could use when he needed help in the bathroom. Until he used the sign, I wouldn't talk about poop at all. The first time with this new plan, he was high-stepping and whining all around the room while I ignored it. I thought he was going to have an accident, but then he stopped, did the sign, and all was well. It worked GREAT for about 2 weeks and then it just didn't work anymore. We're back to me having to tell him that it's time to go.

We've been off Miralax since January, and it's done a lot of good decreasing the drama. Now his pre-poop signs are restlessness, throwing, and tooting. I used the fiber gummy bears and they keep his poop just the right consistency.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

it's nice to see everyone-I was also thinking of bumping the thread! I know people here would appreciate the rather warped sense of humor I've developed because of this issue-I think of you everytime dd poops!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goddessjulia* 
my experience with glycerin suppositories on ds is that they do burn like mad, then cause cramping, and all-around traumatize the poor kid. I tried babylax and fleet's glycerin suppositories back in the day. miralax really saved his a$$









I was thinking of posting the other day-- reason for all to be hopeful! first, ds is finally poop-potty-trained! he will still try to retain sometimes, but it's more like a typical kid who just doesn't want to stop playing to go, rather than being a kid with a chronic constipation problem. when I see him clenching I can usually just remind him, "we do that in the potty, remember? go-go-go!" occasionally I have to cajole him a little, but he isn't battling me about it. and, perhaps more importantly, he seems to be off the miralax as well! he's semi-regular, which he has NEVER been, going every other day. sometimes he doesn't even tell me! every two weeks or so, he'll skip more than one day, and then I'm able to just give him a big dose of citrucel in yogurt (he likes that) and he goes. I haven't used the miralax in weeks! at last, some semblance of normalcy!!









best wishes for everyone to get to this point, and for us to stay here!









CoNgRaTuLaTiOnS!!!! That's wonderful news-and I am certainly hoping you guys have turned the corner for good!

DD is also doing much better-she pooped in the potty for the first time ever last week, and has willingly done it every day since! She's also off the miralax, but I keep it on hand just in case. So far the poops are soft, so her stress level is way down. It's such a relief! She's so dang proud of herself, too.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

I don't have a comment regarding using a laxative since I've never done that with my kids. But I was going to suggest reading a book to your child each time he needs to go poop while he sits on the potty. I did this with two of my children when learning to go poo potty and it helped. I was there with them the whole time and they were relaxed reading a book they enjoyed. I think it helps to teach them early on how to relax while going poop, especially if they are having trouble doing it.


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

topping


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

My ds is pooping regularly in the toilet! Yeay! When he needs to go, I just give him a warm bath and then sit him on the toilet and he goes! He even asks to go! He sits on the potty and says, "Poopies out!"







Oh, I hope this is more than a phase......


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

Yay! I love happy pooping news.

Ours here, unfortunately, is not so great. We've been having lots of ups and downs, and then the month of March hit. Lots of withholding, a little soiling, plus various other issues surfaced (defiance, constant whining, unhappiness, lots of nervous habits, and worsening stutter). The poor little man just seemed miserable. So in addition to some improved parenting skills, we finally made an appointment with a pediatric GI.

She took a detailed history, agreed that Miralax can solve some problems and can lead to others, and did a quick check of his tummy and tushie. She said that 5% of the constipation problems she sees are "organic" in nature (e.g., caused by a disease or blockage in the colon, etc.), while 95% are psychological. We could do some blood tests (or a barium enema) to rule out some diseases, but all indications point to a psychological issue.

So, we're in the process of setting up some child psych. sessions for him. I think (and the GI agreed) that he needs someone OTHER than his parents to talk him through this. I'm hopeful that we can also address his apparent anxiety (we're getting separate speech therapy help, although the stutter seems to be getting better). And I'm happy to report that his general mood is much improved--March was just a rough month.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

congrats roxanne! hope april has been/is better for you, p-chan. I of course spoke too soon with my success post a few weeks back and we had another MAJOR blockage, like we haven't had in a year, with the labor-coaching-on-the-toilet end result







but, once we got clear of that one, things have been ok. I've had to be more particular about getting the miralax in him more often, but so far we're still basically in the clear







:


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

It's been at least 2 weeks and my ds is still pooping regularly in the toilet (almost every night!) I think he just came to the realization that he feels better when he has pooped then when he retains it. Now I just have to get him trained for pee pee. I know it's a bit backwards to have a boy who is poop trained first, but ds had always been quirky that way. The problem has always been communication - he is a year behind in his speech development, and conversation is still very limited.


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## PinkPixie (Apr 28, 2005)

This seems like a good thread for support regarding my children's issues.

My 5.5 yo son has just been diagnosed with encopresis. He would have alot of "accidents" poo and pee until it got so bad that his school asked me to remove him from school until his problem cleared up and that I bring him to see a psychologist







The also wrote an embarassing letter to my ped, who then reffered my son to a specialist (which has been a good turn of events).

Turns out after seeing a gastroenterologist, that he has encopresis. The accidents are totally not his fault, but puts alot of stress on the whole family and especially on my son.

My dd will be 3yo, and she also has encopresis, which is making potty-training impossible and very frustrating.

The specialist said that almost all children with encopresis were long term breastfeeders... which in my case is true. My son self-weaned at 3 yo, and my dd is still nursing. I'm confused about this breastmilk/encopresis link and it just makes me feel like I totally caused this problem that affects 2 of my 4 children.

I seriously dread potty-training.


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## jimmyc (Apr 18, 2007)

I've been having a nightmare of a time with my little one but we 're managing. I'm glad to see we're not the only ones who have the same problems!

A BIG THANK YOU TO EVERYONE!


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Long-term BF = encopresis???? I have never heard of that (DH is a gastroenterolgist, BTW - but only for adults). Weird.

DS is doing ok - he is potty trained but has accidents. Being 3 1/2 he is generally resistant to all suggestions from me on any topic - this applies to "since you need to pee why not sit down and see if poopie happens?" and so forth.

The past 3 or 4 days I've felt like I have a new puppy... because I've been cleaning so much poop off the floor.

I'm sure we'll get back on track soon. At least he isn't constipated.


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## lovemysunshine (Jul 13, 2005)

I haven't posted yet on this thread (I don't think







), but I have to ask why the specialist thought long-term bf'ing would cause encopresis? I am not understanding the reasoning behind this and would love to know more if you got any other info on it.

I have been subbing to this thread because my DD (almost 4) has been having problems with pooping since around the birth of my DS (14 months ago). I am not proud of it, but I had to resort to bribing her with watching a "movie" (1 Dora show, etc) if and only if she pooped. Since we don't usually watch tv, this was a big deal because she loves watching her movies. So while I'm not crazy about her having screen time every (other) day, it's better than hurting her body.

I think for my DD it was a control issue. DH would be adamant about her going when he smelled her farting and this would result in a huge power struggle. Over and over and over. She started leaking a bit in her underwear and not going for days. Her behavior got horrible when she needed to go, poor thing must have been hurting so bad. After instituting the movie bribe, she promptly went and pooped. Within 5 minutes, no joke. Now that we've been more lax about the rule (she sometimes watches even if she hasn't gone that day because I need to get DS down for bed when Dh isn't home, etc), she is pooping every 2-3 days. I guess we need to enforce it again so she stays regular.

I know this is not the solution for many of you, but I thought I'd post my experience as well, especially since I butted in on the thread!


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## Momalea (Dec 29, 2002)

Hi! So nice to find this thread! My dd is 6.5 and was diagnosed with encopresis at 4.5, but I think her issues began way back, around 11 months old. It took us a loooong time (& 7 practitioners) to figure out what was going on.

This really caught my attention:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PinkPixie* 
The specialist said that almost all children with encopresis were long term breastfeeders... which in my case is true. My son self-weaned at 3 yo, and my dd is still nursing. I'm confused about this breastmilk/encopresis link and it just makes me feel like I totally caused this problem that affects 2 of my 4 children.

I'm wondering if this specialist is anti-extended bf or just very ignorant about it. My dd has been to an encopresis clinic, an osteopath and her current ped is an encopresis specialist. All know she was bf until 4yo and not one of them said it was anything but good that she'd be bf so long.

My ds (15mo) is also have some pooping issus (which we're addressing much differently than we did with dd since we have more of a clue now). I see PinkPixie has another child with encopresis. Does anyone else have multiple family members with it? The three "experts" I listed above all said I shouldn't worry about my ds having it as well because it doesn't run in families, but low and behold...pooping issues.

AND, my dd has lots of cavities. I think it's from her intestines being whacked out and not being able to assimilate nutrients very well (until this last year she was also quite short and thin). Does anyone else have children with both dental issues and encopresis?

It's so nice to find people to ask these questions to!!!


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## dillonandmarasmom (May 30, 2005)

No constipation (chronically) yet. DD just potty learned about 1 month before turning 2. She has successfully pooped on the tiolet once and was thrilled, "Yay, I did it!!". She still chooses to be undie-less and wander around until she thinks I have stopped stalking her and asking if she needs to go (it's usually pretty clear when she needs to), then finds a quiet spot to let loose onthe floor. She runs to me to let me know, takes me to the spot, then goes to the potty to pee







: . I know she feels connected to this part of her (the bm), and I am interested in the chakra theory (fits in with our line of thinking on many levels). I hope to be as supportive of this process for her as I can be. So far, she goes at least every other day. But, in the last couple of weeks, her first poos have been pellet-like nad she says, "owie" when she's going







.
I am glad to hear so many positive stories. DS was a pretty quick potty learner, so I wasn;t ready for this new challenge. Being as empathetic as I can be.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

nice to see everyone-welcome to the newbies.









dd (age 3 and 5 months) is now fully using the potty and completely off taking miralax daily. she has gotten jammed up twice in the past few months and I gave her a dosage, which set things right.

about the chakra issues-I examined those pretty closely. I did feel she felt disconnected from her tribe (second child)-my first dd and I are very much in sync (she also takes a lot of my energy) and I'm always conscious of how this impacts my second dd. One day she even announced that I didn't love her-so I scanned myself for possible energy that would make her feel that way. I've gotten to know her more (which coincides with the development of her personality,) made more space for us, encouraged oldest dd to be more involved with her and I think she feels more connected.


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## MaT (Mar 28, 2005)

Hi Momalea,

Very interesting co-relation you found between the gut and the teeth.

Our dd1 had chronic constipation from 18months to about 36 months old.
She is just 4 now and goes regularly though only at home, in a diaper.

But she too had something like 9 cavities filled and a chipped tooth repaired last summer. By then she was going regularly and since then has had cavity free check-ups.

Tricia


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## PinkPixie (Apr 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annekevdbroek* 
Long-term BF = encopresis???? I have never heard of that (DH is a gastroenterolgist, BTW - but only for adults). Weird.

I also find that it doesn't make sense. I felt horrible when he said "almost all children with encopresis were long-term breastfeeders, but don't blame yourself". I mean, even the WHO recommends bfing for at least 2 years and longer if possible.

What does your dh think of this?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovemysunshine* 
I haven't posted yet on this thread (I don't think







), but I have to ask why the specialist thought long-term bf'ing would cause encopresis? I am not understanding the reasoning behind this and would love to know more if you got any other info on it.


When I said to him "Long-term breatfeeding gives encopresis" he shrugged and said that through his work experience, there seemed to be a correlation between the two.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momalea* 
Hi! So nice to find this thread! My dd is 6.5 and was diagnosed with encopresis at 4.5, but I think her issues began way back, around 11 months old. It took us a loooong time (& 7 practitioners) to figure out what was going on.

This really caught my attention:

I'm wondering if this specialist is anti-extended bf or just very ignorant about it. My dd has been to an encopresis clinic, an osteopath and her current ped is an encopresis specialist. All know she was bf until 4yo and not one of them said it was anything but good that she'd be bf so long.

My ds (15mo) is also have some pooping issus (which we're addressing much differently than we did with dd since we have more of a clue now). I see PinkPixie has another child with encopresis. Does anyone else have multiple family members with it? The three "experts" I listed above all said I shouldn't worry about my ds having it as well because it doesn't run in families, but low and behold...pooping issues.

AND, my dd has lots of cavities. I think it's from her intestines being whacked out and not being able to assimilate nutrients very well (until this last year she was also quite short and thin). Does anyone else have children with both dental issues and encopresis?

It's so nice to find people to ask these questions to!!!

I'm also so happy to find this thread. Having pooping issues with an older child is very stressful and discouraging, especially when their are no other children around with the same problem.

We also saw lots of doctors for my son and dd. The only reason we FINALLY got a refferal with a gastroenterologist was because my ds' school menaced to remove him from school until he was accident free, and recommended that I bring him to see a psychologist.







: They wrote a letter to my ped, who finally seemed to take my son's problem more seriously and referred us to the specialist. Before the schools letter, my ped said that ds was "potty-training resistant", which was obviously not the case.

We have to do a series of fleet enemas, and then lansoyl twice a day. dd is also on lansoyl. None of my kids have cavities, but dd is very prone to plaque buildup, like alot of plaque.

The gastroenterologist did ask if any other family members had intestinal problems (which their aren't in any of the adults in the family) so I guess it must mean that it sometimes runs in the family.

I also never expected problems like this, especially since my eldest son pt'ed in 3 days flat (even at night). It was even more discouraging since everyone was telling me that subsequent child pt even faster, because they see the older sibblings going to the toilet. So. Not. True.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

normally I would say "nice to see the thread picking up," but considering our suffering that doesn't make as much sense here, does it?! I'm glad for all the newbies who have found it. as I've said before, folks who haven't btdt just do NOT get it.

I think that alleged connection with extended bfing is total bs. it has such a laxative effect, there's just no way. the pieces don't fit together. hmph.







:

I also get sooo frustrated with those who only know of encopresis as a psychological problem. I have felt like I was being questioned as a potential child molester!! what I have found is that there are countless reasons the retaining starts (something irritating produces a painful bm, the stress of a move or new sibling or whatever, control/power struggles, illness, basic constipation from diet produces pain, food allergies....) and then in those who are disposed to it the physical problem of an enlarged colon results and "maintains" the problem.

I still have to be very mindful of ds's bowel habits, but as long as I keep watch he's ok. right now we're still off the miralax except as a remedy for the occasional backup; he eats those fiber yummi bears like candy (thank goodness for frontier coop!) and goes approximately every other day. granted, his bm's are alarmingly enormous!







but he always uses the potty and doesn't seem to be in pain from it. so, I call it good enough. I still plan trips out around whether he's pooped recently to avoid struggles in public, but that's not too difficult. I still can't get him to drink enough fluids, he still consumes a lot of dairy, and I keep the miralax on-hand. I never thought I'd be such an advocate of something completely synthetic, but as I often say, motherhood is about nothing if not humility!

does anyone know if goat's milk has the same constipation effect as cow's milk? (did I ask that before?? I can't remember... preggo brain...)

we examined the chakra issues too-- it seemed very fitting. we moved three times in a year, beginning with selling the house ds had come home to, and also were in quite the financial tailspin during that time. we lived with my in-laws for a while and that was when it got really severe (and when I found miralax). definite stability/security issues for us! we made no progress whatsoever until several months after being in our own space. I know this disturbed him on a level he couldn't express-- now that he's almost 4.5, he will tell us things such as "we are NEVER EVER moving from this house!" and "we can NEVER EVER sell the car!" which really lets me know how deeply he was shaken by all that change.









I *really really* hope I don't go through this again with the new baby! I will certainly be much more alert to the problem if it occurs, and will take immediate action to avoid the enlarged colon situation if I can.

oh, p-chan, I don't think I ever answered about the baby-- she's not here yet, about 8 or 9 weeks to go. I'm due sometime around july 1. I have a HUGE basketball belly!







and on your recent post, hope you're getting some answers there.







:

good luck to everyone!!


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## Momalea (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaT* 
Hi Momalea,

Very interesting co-relation you found between the gut and the teeth.

Our dd1 had chronic constipation from 18months to about 36 months old.
She is just 4 now and goes regularly though only at home, in a diaper.

But she too had something like 9 cavities filled and a chipped tooth repaired last summer. By then she was going regularly and since then has had cavity free check-ups.

Tricia

My dd's ped says she's never noticed a correlation between encopresis and dental issues, but I wonder if she's ever asked or if people even think of telling her. I know for a long time it didn't occur to me that my gut and teeth health would be related.

My dentist is the one who suggested we try to improve her gut flora in order for her dental health to improve. We've been adding more kefir and yogurt to her diet as well as trying more suggestions from the Nourishing Traditions line of thinking. But it's hard getting a 6yo who has very strong feelings about what she eats to change what she eats. It's a very slow process. Her adult teeth are now coming in and I feel anxious (which I try not to let her see) that they'll be healthier.

This last year she's had a huge jump in her weight and height percentiles, so I'm hoping that she's doing better in terms of nutrient assimilation.


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## Momalea (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:

I'm glad for all the newbies who have found it. as I've said before, folks who haven't btdt just do NOT get it.
Yeah, I've had so many well meaning people say things that were irritating and/or hurtful because they just don't get it. Like "there must be something wrong with your breastmilk" or "have you tried adding fiber to her diet?" Argh!

Quote:

I also get sooo frustrated with those who only know of encopresis as a psychological problem. I have felt like I was being questioned as a potential child molester!! what I have found is that there are countless reasons the retaining starts (something irritating produces a painful bm, the stress of a move or new sibling or whatever, control/power struggles, illness, basic constipation from diet produces pain, food allergies....) and then in those who are disposed to it the physical problem of an enlarged colon results and "maintains" the problem.
One of my dd's practitioners (a very well meaning holistic md, but ultimately very unhelpful) said it couldn't be encopresis because that was an emotional issue while she was just having physical symptoms. That diagnoses put us off getting her treated effectively another few months.

Quote:

I still have to be very mindful of ds's bowel habits, but as long as I keep watch he's ok. right now we're still off the miralax except as a remedy for the occasional backup; he eats those fiber yummi bears like candy (thank goodness for frontier coop!) and goes approximately every other day.
Unfortunatley, I haven't found fiber bears to be helpful-though dd loves them! There is a dried fruit and fiber bar that Trader Joe's sells as well which dd loves-I'm not so sure they're helpful for her either-but they might be for someone else. One of our biggest issues is dd's low water intake. We have even resorted to givng her quarters for drinking a certain amount of water each day. My dd loves money, and still, this hasn't worked.

Quote:

does anyone know if goat's milk has the same constipation effect as cow's milk?
I don't know and I haven't gotten a clear answer from her ped on this issue. My dd doesn't drink cow or goat milk and we try to have her just eat goat cheese and yogurt.

Quote:

I never thought I'd be such an advocate of something completely synthetic, but as I often say, motherhood is about nothing if not humility!
I sobbed when I realized my dd would be on daily medication for who knows how long. I have been grateful for it, but I am still leary of it. And yes, motherhood is the most ego-bashing exercise there is!


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## PinkPixie (Apr 28, 2005)

What's the difference between miralax and lansoyl ?

I've never heard of miralax. Both my ds and dd are on two doses a day of lansoyl, which is basically a jelly mineral oil.


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

Hello to all the mamas who recently found this thread!

I am sad to report that after 3 weeks or more of pooping every/every other day on the toilet, my ds is withholding again!







I'm wondering if it is because I ran out of prune juice (and so did my Mon who watches him) this week, or if it is a true (psycholoigcal) relapse. He has not gone since Wednesday, and I have used glycerin suppositories for the past two days and he still has not pooped.







:

Has anyone used more than one suppository a day? It says on the container to not to. Also, is that Miralax I am seeing in stores the same one some of you have been using for your dcs?


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Miralax is not OTC - yep, it is the same stuff.

Instead of glycerin suppositories - which burn and hurt - try 1/2 a ducolax (stimulant) suppository. Our Ped GI recommended them and they work much better than the glycerin and don't hurt (which is critical in getting cooperation with a suppository).


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## Tuesday (Mar 3, 2003)

for those of you whose children are taking a laxative product - how does your DC and you cope with "leakage" and "accidents". My 4 year old DS is potty trained in terms of doing pees and he can poop on the toilet if the laxative (Lansoyl) is the right dosage but if he gets too little a dose he leaks into this underpants or too much - he has diarrhea that ends up soiling his underpants. The Lansoyl is a jelly and what qualifies as his correct dosage seems to vary day to day. I'm really worried about September when DS is to start JK. And, right now, just attending public functions (like t-ball) can be a worry if he's having bowel troubles.

Anyone else with these worries?


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## Momalea (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PinkPixie* 
What's the difference between miralax and lansoyl ?

I've never heard of miralax. Both my ds and dd are on two doses a day of lansoyl, which is basically a jelly mineral oil.

Miralax or Glycolax (generic) is polyethlene glycol powder. It's dissolved in warm water then added to something to drink. It "softens the stool and increases the frequency of bowl movements by retaining water in the stool." I find for my dd it's not much of a laxative (we use mineral oil on toast/in yogurt, etc if needed) but has been more helpful in keeping the stool soft while her colon heals and so that the bm is never thick and painful.

It was only offered by perscription, however I recently noticed it offered on the shelf at Target in a small supply-perhaps enough for one week.

What freaks me out about Miralax is that it says on the label it's not to be used by children or for more than two weeks. Well, per the instructions of two different medical professsionals, my child has been on it for 2 years. We're weaning her off of it, but it's a slow process.


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Wow! Where has this thread been? I've really really needed it. I have a dr appt today to talk about this very issue, in addition to other issues I'm having with my 3.5 year old.

The summary is that he only poops twice a week and that's only because I aggressively work with him every time. We've tried every natural thing I can think of. Aloe juice had basically NO affect on him so I stopped wasting my money on that. I was giving him a decent sized slug or two as well and it did nothing. Right now, we're doing prune juice (which he loves for some reason) and Epsom salt baths. I massage his abdomen in the direction that his intestines work. I also give him flax seed tea if I'm desperate.

He is not constipated, as the appearance is normal and he doesn't have a hard time doing it. On the contrary, he's holding it in and I have to convince him to stop holding it in. We have talked about it so much to the point where the whole thing just exhausts me. And I even bribe him with chocolate, which is so out of character for me as we don't do junk food and my oldest didn't taste candy/chocolate/ice cream at all until he was 4 years old. And even with the promise of a chocolate, he will still hold it in.

When I've gotten him to talk to me about it, the answer is always the same. He's afraid it will hurt. Every time he does it, we comment about how easy it was and how much better he must feel and how it really didn't hurt. And yet every time it happens again, he withholds because he's afraid it will hurt.

He's had issues since he was a baby. When he was a 1 yr old, he only went once a week and it was hard for him. In the past year, it looks very easy to pass but he's simply holding it in. I have to dedicate hours, twice a week, to get him to poop. The whole thing is exhausting me!


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

I saw a commercial recently that said miralax would now be otc, but I haven't looked for it in stores because we haven't been out. the polyethylene glycol powder draws water into the intestines, keeping bm's soft. fwiw, I have read the longitudinal study of chronic use in children (12 months +) and no problems were found (and it did seem to be a well-done study, unlike some). this is what reassured me when I was deciding to start using it with ds. it is very commonly recommended for long-term use (a minimum of 3-6 months is what I read) for these chronic retention/ enlarged bowel problems, because it is the least likely to cause cramping etc (although I know at least one person who has been on this thread reported painful cramping with her dc on it). ds has been on it for over a year now, although we are well into the weaning process now and only use it for blockages. the "worst" part of miralax for most of us has been the massive poops it produces when things are getting cleaned out







and the weaning is a **very** slow process! but then any laxative weaning will be. we're dealing with a blockage again (relapse) right now







: I think it's because we're remodeling the bathroom that ds would normally use during the day. by the time he gets upstairs to the other bathroom the urge is gone.







:

I have worried for a couple of years now about the whole "going out in public with poop issues" thing. ds does not attend school, and will not, so that particular part was not a problem. I was considering a local daycare-ish thing, but not only was it pretty lousy, he also didn't want to go, and I didn't want him to get shaming added on top of his tendency to retain (which definitely would have happened at this place-- icky). before tearing out the bathroom we had reached a point of relative balance with it, so I could pretty easily work around whether it was going to be a poop day or not, as could he (no problems using the potty anymore). I'm sure we'll get back to it soon, once we get him unplugged again







I guess the way we dealt with it when it was a major issue was simply to carry lots of undies and wipes, be as low-key as possible, and stay home as much as possible when I knew it was likely to be a blowout day. having trouble regulating the dose seems to be a pretty common problem; what helped most at our house was p-chan's idea of measuring the miralax very precisely and then sticking with that to maintain a certain consistency, but it did take some trial and error first!









ok, being asked to go look at a dragonfly


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## PinkPixie (Apr 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momalea* 
Miralax or Glycolax (generic) is polyethlene glycol powder. It's dissolved in warm water then added to something to drink. It "softens the stool and increases the frequency of bowl movements by retaining water in the stool." I find for my dd it's not much of a laxative (we use mineral oil on toast/in yogurt, etc if needed) but has been more helpful in keeping the stool soft while her colon heals and so that the bm is never thick and painful.

It was only offered by perscription, however I recently noticed it offered on the shelf at Target in a small supply-perhaps enough for one week.

What freaks me out about Miralax is that it says on the label it's not to be used by children or for more than two weeks. Well, per the instructions of two different medical professsionals, my child has been on it for 2 years. We're weaning her off of it, but it's a slow process.

Thanks for the info. Our Lansoyl "prescription" is not otc, so we pay out of our pockets. It get's pricey especially since we have 2 kids on it. I wish is was otc so that our insurance would cover it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goddessjulia* 
I saw a commercial recently that said miralax would now be otc, but I haven't looked for it in stores because we haven't been out. the polyethylene glycol powder draws water into the intestines, keeping bm's soft. fwiw, I have read the longitudinal study of chronic use in children (12 months +) and no problems were found (and it did seem to be a well-done study, unlike some). this is what reassured me when I was deciding to start using it with ds. it is very commonly recommended for long-term use (a minimum of 3-6 months is what I read) for these chronic retention/ enlarged bowel problems, because it is the least likely to cause cramping etc (although I know at least one person who has been on this thread reported painful cramping with her dc on it). ds has been on it for over a year now, although we are well into the weaning process now and only use it for blockages. the "worst" part of miralax for most of us has been the massive poops it produces when things are getting cleaned out







and the weaning is a **very** slow process! but then any laxative weaning will be. we're dealing with a blockage again (relapse) right now







: I think it's because we're remodeling the bathroom that ds would normally use during the day. by the time he gets upstairs to the other bathroom the urge is gone.







:

I have worried for a couple of years now about the whole "going out in public with poop issues" thing.

All laxative products have that disclaimer on them. All our docs said that the products are safe and don't cause dependency.

About the going out in public thing.... Ds who is 5.5 attends school. He had a bad "accident" week where he did 2 accidents per day









The school called me and ambushed me into a meeting where they said that my ds' behaviour was innacceptable and that they were asking me to remove him from school until he stops.







: this was a month and a half ago. That was just hard, rough and I was furious. He's still going to school now and has been accident free for 4 weeks!!!!! They let him come back because I got mad and refused to remove him from the school he loves (and all his friends).

It's hard for others to understand. They think the child is doing this on purpose. Most people seriously lack compassion in regards to this condition.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

Quote:

All laxative products have that disclaimer on them. All our docs said that the products are safe and don't cause dependency.

It's hard for others to understand. They think the child is doing this on purpose. Most people seriously lack compassion in regards to this condition.
amen to that!! it's so frustrating, and if you try to explain/educate, they just think your kid has you snowed and that you're getting manipulated. I really really hate that whole "children are out to get their parents" attitude







:

as for the laxatives not causing dependency, I think they all *do* cause dependency, but the thing I realized with ds was, he was already dependent on something if he wouldn't poop without help, kwim? so what difference does it make if he becomes dependent on some laxative?

btw, we got poop!!


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PinkPixie* 
About the going out in public thing.... Ds who is 5.5 attends school. He had a bad "accident" week where he did 2 accidents per day









I meant to respond to this part too-- that's so hard! poor thing! ds (4.5) is adamant about being homeschooled so that's how I've gotten out of dealing with schools. (around here, our choices totally BLOW, so it's just as well, although he's also very extroverted and spirited which often leaves me very tired! especially during this pregnancy!!) too bad your ds likes going, otherwise you could take him out!







when I first discovered miralax and we were getting the dosage figured out, ds would have many blowouts per day (he also was not poop-potty-trained at that time, around age 3). that got better as I figured out where his dose needed to be. I don't like keeping him on any medication, but I'll definitely keep up with this rather than suffer the consequences. this is one of those things that "didn't turn out like I planned" that I have to accept. he'll struggle with this, probably for a very long time, and maybe for the rest of his life. I don't know if I could have done anything differently, but I see that this is where we are now. *sigh*


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## mtm (Dec 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CathMac* 

If DD1 was egg/cow milk intolerant (possibly allergic) during the first 1 to 1 1/2 year of nursing, how likely is it that dairy could be constipating her if she is otherwise asymptomatic now? If a dairy allergy is suspected, is a total elimination diet absolutely necessary or is it possible that simply cutting back would be helpful?

Here's a strange question, has anyone here ever suspected one particular food as a trigger? In our case I am starting to wonder about our "go to" lunch for her, "Beefaroni" which would have some incidental dairy.

~Cath

My little one is gluten and dairy sensitive, he gets any gluten and he is horribly constipated. We just managed to get him regular (once a day for the first time ever!) with a combo of vit C, fish oil, acidophilus and calc carb. My naturopath is worth her weight in gold.


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtm* 
My little one is gluten and dairy sensitive, he gets any gluten and he is horribly constipated. We just managed to get him regular (once a day for the first time ever!) with a combo of vit C, fish oil, acidophilus and calc carb. My naturopath is worth her weight in gold.

I'm wondering if my ds is sensitive to gluten and/or dairy. He's been constipated since infancy and had dairy sensitivity which he seemed to grow out of around 6 months (reacting to my breastmilk with severe gassiness). Anyway, he's a very picky eater and his favorite foods are dairy and wheat, loves yogurt, bread, goldfish crackers, etc. He's on Miralax and more juice than I care for. Mtm, how long does it take for your ds to "recover" from exposure to gluten? I'd really like to try eliminating gluten for a trial run but dh thinks we should wait until ds understands better before we try something so "traumatic." I disagree but that's another issue/thread.

Oh, ds#2 is about 6.5 months adjusted (actual 9 months old) and is exclusively breastfed. He's on zantac and occasionally iron and is following in his older brother's footsteps with dairy intolerance and constipation. Makes me more curious about a gluten issue (I'm trying to be good and go wheat/gluten free but not being 100%


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

Good news, he's pooping n the toilet regualrly again - after retaining for 4 days!







: He does not seem as eager to poop as he used to be, but at least he is going. He was acting abysmally before he finally made it.


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

: Spoke too soon. He needs to go but wouldn't go tonight.







:


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## bryannastreasure (Nov 28, 2006)

what options do I have to send Carlin to school?

He will be 4y9m on the deadline for Kindergarten, and there is a Possibility of early enrollment. But he is firmly in pullups. and doesn't pee in the potty at all and only rarely poops.

and he is gifted. He has been to two years of small preschool and we are finishing up homeschool Kindergarten and 1/2 through the 1st material. Would an IEP, special needs plan, get him the educational challenge he needs while still allowing diapers? He does qualify for ECEAP preschool in September, but they want him trained/nearly trained.

I am up to the challenge of keeping him home now and maybe skipping him up a grade later. but sometimes the thought of a couple hours to myself everyday sounds so So SO good.
Love and Light,
Bryanna


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## Leiahs (Jul 29, 2005)

I would encourage anyone who is using Miralax or considering using it to check out the yahoo group called "Miralax". There are many many many discussions, personal testimonies, FDA data, etc. within the group that can help you understand that it actually *can* be a dangerous and/or harmful drug, especially with the doses and length of use many children are dealing with.

Also, you'll find a lot of alternative treatments available for constipation. It has definitely been worthwhile for me. Through that group I found out about a product called Fruit-Eze, which is just a jam of prunes, raisins, and dates, which my daughter now takes (and enjoys) daily. She used to withhold her bowel movements for more than a week at a time (for almost a year, although it wasn't always that bad), but now she usually has a bowel movement every day, and sometimes skips a day. We've dropped all our other medications to get her to go. Sometimes we still struggle to get her on the potty so she will go (there is some lingering fear, after all!), but she never has traumatic bowel movements anymore. Other members have found entire protocols of vitamins and supplements that are huge helps to their children. But at the very least, it's a good informational group and worth checking out.


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## McMandy (May 18, 2007)

I have a DD who just turned 4, is still in pull-ups and refuses to tell me when she has to poop or potty.

My husband is at his wits end. I cannot have THREE children in diapers. I LOATHE diaper duty and am hoping, praying, BEGGING that she'll be potty trained by the time this baby arrives.

My DS, who is 2, is interested in potty training, does not like wearing diapers, wants to wear pull-ups, and likes sitting on the potty, but usually doesn't do much in it.

DD will use the potty but only if I constantly ask and remind her... although she has used it a couple times at her Sunday School group- where ALL the kids her age are potty trained (maybe the pressure).

Im GOING NUTS over this. The set backs were due to having a baby and moving a lot.

I'm incredibly embarrassed that she is still in diapers, basically, and is content to go in her diapers (even though "it hurts") because she is now getting rashes.

I was actually hoping the rashes and "the hurt" would motivate her to potty train quicker, sad as it is.


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

I just ordered some Fruit-Eze. I really hope it helps. I am so sick of the Miralax because it seems that we cannot get off of it. I taper so slowly for months and month and months and at some point - right around 1.5 tsp - well, we end up back at square one. DS was having super soft poos at 2 tsp that he seemed almost unable to control (lots of accidents). Then at 1.5 tsp more accidents, then DH (without consulting me!) stopped the meds over a weekend trip - even restarted 2 days later and that was in January and we can't seem to get back on track.

I am so sad because he has been on Miralax for 3.5 years. Two weekends ago he pooped on the floor 4 times in one day! This past week has been better because I think we've worked through some of hte oppositional 3 1/2 year-old behavior related to using the toilet. Paying him .25 to poop in the potty has been a good motivator. I swear, he is raking it in and keeps talking about saving his money for somethign really big (Playmobil castle or something).


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *McMandy* 
I was actually hoping the rashes and "the hurt" would motivate her to potty train quicker, sad as it is.









mama! I feel your pain (and hers!). for us it was the pain that caused the whole retaining process to start in the first place. I hope you find what works for you soon. it helps me to remember that ds is really not out to get me with this, that he would love mastery of his body if he could manage it. something is just interfering with that process sometimes. (this is really good for me to remind myself of right now, when I've got a baby due in 6-7 weeks and he's banging his head into my shoulder as I type!!) we had emotional setbacks too, too much instability for the little guy, that really made things severe and unmanageable without prescriptions for a very long time. we did finally cross over to potty-trained land (also after age 4 for poop) and I'm sure you'll get it figured out for your dd. hopefully soon!







:


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

Ok, it was a lapse of one day. He actually asked to go poopies BEFORE his bath tonight and (unlike other times) made it too!







He even made a little pee pee i the toliet as well - I am trying to get through to him that he should be doing all his peepee in the toilet.







:


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

congrats roxanne!! for us, pee was virtually instantaneous-- what did it was having my friend and her son staying with us for a few days a couple of summers ago. he's a year older than ds and the whole "standing to pee" thing was so amazing to ds that he just had to do it!







maybe you can recruit someone else's kid for the same reason!







of course, then it took us 2 more years to get the poop working... and it's still an "issue," let me say, lest I jinx myself!!

we're remodeling our main floor bathroom right now, and yesterday was the day the old potty finally had to come out so dh could do the new floor. naturally, ds had to poop. here's what happened: first, all of ds's clothes from the waist down come off (that's always a requirement, even to pee; then he doesn't put them back on







). then, butt clenched (which makes his little penis stick out, which I think is just hilarious), he yells: "MOM! I NEED TO POOP AND DADDY TOOK OUT THE POTTY!!!" me: "ok, just go upstairs." him: "I CAN'T!!!" I am trying not to crack up. he's on tippy-toes trying to hold it in. "ok, daddy can carry you upstairs." (recall that I am 34 weeks pregnant, and ds weighs about 41 lbs.) "NOOOO!!" "I'm sorry honey, daddy will have to do it." "NOOOO!!!" as dh carries him upstairs, his whole body stiff as a board!







he does make it, though, and miracle of miracles, he still was able to release and poop what dh reported to be a substantial amount. this is on no meds!!







then, to round out the story, dh flushed it before I could come see it and ds was insanely furious and ordered dh into time-out for "ALL DAY!!"







good thing for dh that ds explodes fast then forgets his anger just as quickly







I've still got a big order of yummi bears coming, and I'll keep on that, but this was definitely something that could not have happened even a few months ago without miralax. there's hope!! (now watch, he'll stopper himself up again now that I've said that!)


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goddessjulia* 
he does make it, though, and miracle of miracles, he still was able to release and poop what dh reported to be a substantial amount. this is on no meds!!







then, to round out the story, dh flushed it before I could come see it and ds was insanely furious and ordered dh into time-out for "ALL DAY!!"







)


This is so funny. DS likes me to check out is poop too. I have to be sure to make appreciative comments about not just it being correctly deposited in the toilet, but also about its size, texture, and stinkiness.









I'm guessing I'm not the only poop-looker on this discussion.


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leiahs* 
I would encourage anyone who is using Miralax or considering using it to check out the yahoo group called "Miralax". There are many many many discussions, personal testimonies, FDA data, etc. within the group that can help you understand that it actually *can* be a dangerous and/or harmful drug, especially with the doses and length of use many children are dealing with.

Also, you'll find a lot of alternative treatments available for constipation. It has definitely been worthwhile for me. Through that group I found out about a product called Fruit-Eze, which is just a jam of prunes, raisins, and dates, which my daughter now takes (and enjoys) daily. She used to withhold her bowel movements for more than a week at a time (for almost a year, although it wasn't always that bad), but now she usually has a bowel movement every day, and sometimes skips a day. We've dropped all our other medications to get her to go. Sometimes we still struggle to get her on the potty so she will go (there is some lingering fear, after all!), but she never has traumatic bowel movements anymore. Other members have found entire protocols of vitamins and supplements that are huge helps to their children. But at the very least, it's a good informational group and worth checking out.

Thanks so much for suggesting the yahoo miralax group. I've found so much useful information there (as well as a little scary about the Miralax, but that's just motivation to work on getting ds1 off of it and keeping ds2 from ever needing it).

Someone posted an article in the Healing the Gut Tribe thread in the Health and Healing forum about the benefits of epsom salt baths for constipation. The benefits are not just from the magnesium but also from the sulphur which the gut needs but may be deficit in. I thought I'd give it a try with my boys. It's hard to tell with ds1 since he's on the glycolax but I think it's really helping ds2. He had gotten to where he was pooping every 7-12 days (12th day with suppositories) and is EBF. I don't care what docs say, that is not normal for a breastfed baby. After starting the baths (about every other day) he's pooped every other day for the last week.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

great thread, bumping in case mom's in need haven't seen it...
thx all that shared their experience

we're not in a bad situation yet, but potty training has produced some retention, and I am so glad to know this before we get into a real jam, so to speak







so thanks

Liz


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Well, just bumping again because there have been a lot of pooping threads lately - and also because I need a vent, I guess. Maybe not a vent, but a BTDT or something.

DS1 is back to not pooping. He is actively holding in poop. I stopped the Miralax after about 8 months of tapering. He's taking 1T of benefiber per day and eating reasonably well. He has, however, returned holding in his poop and only going about once a week. N amount of reasoning, reassurance, explanations, encouragement, or bribes his helping him sit on the toilet and just *try* when he quite obviously needs to go. Last week I swear he pushed out a couple rocks - he had to squat between my legs and poop on the floor. I felt like a midwife! Lots of crying and grunting and screaming and he finally got the poop out.

He seems to think that if he eats fruit the poop will remind soft no matter how long he holds it in. Now, eating fruit it great. But nothing will keep poop soft if you hold it for a week - or nothing I've found. Half the time he won't eat fruit, anyhow. I did manage to get him to take 2 bites of an apple and 2 ryecrisps today.









So, I feel like we've taken a few steps back and this problem will never be over.

DS2 showed early signs of slow gut but happily takes prune juice and eats lentils, grapes, etc. and keeps things moving.


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

I always have mixed feelings when I see this thread revived---it's nice because it's a wonderful source of information and commiseration, but on the other hand, I'm sorry to hear about continuing woes (annekevdbroek, what a bummer to go backwards). It's so hard for the kids *and* their parents!

We are in a pretty good place right now. There have been a couple of specific things to get us here, but I think most of it is just a general maturing/mellowing of my son's personality:

1. First off, we did not start child psych. sessions, as I mentioned was a possibility awhile ago. It never quite felt right, and fortunately he started making progress before I jumped through the right insurance hoops to get it going.

2. We have continued with the Yummi Bears fiber gummy bears. He gets four (maximum recommended dose) daily. This is in addition to lots of water, fresh fruits and veggies, and occasionally prune juice.

3. We started having "practice time" each day. This was a recommendation of the pediatric GI, and my son bought into it immediately (he has a strong respect for medical professionals!). Around 2 pm (he's an afternoon pooper), he was to sit on the toilet and "practice." It took a lot of reassurance from me that I didn't expect poop, just practice. Once on the toilet, he could stay as long or as little as he wanted. I had heard this advice so many times and never taken it---it was the only "new" idea the GI offered me so I decided to try it.

So he never pooped during the "practice" time, but what I found was that it would usually start a process going that he would more willingly poop later in the afternoon.

What has emerged is that his natural rhythm seems to be to poop every other day around 3 pm. Our current routine is that if it's a poop day, I'll remind him after lunch that he'll be pooping that afternoon, and to let me know when he's ready. If he hasn't pooped by around 3:30, I'll have to tell him it's time. He has learned to poop "slowly" (as he calls it), and I think that mean that he doesn't wait until it basically explodes--he's learned how to ease it out.

We still have some behavior issues before poops, but it's much more subtle than before.

I worry about my daugher, but for the most part she seems to be OK--if she skips a day it gets a little uncomfortable for her, but she isn't retaining. She would eat fruit and drink prune juice all day if I'd let her! I want to keep a light touch with potty learning to avoid any issues!


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## P-chan (Jan 23, 2004)

bump


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## adtake (Feb 1, 2006)

Ok gals! I have not read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been asked. I so hope it hasn't for mom, but hope it has so I'm not the only one out there.

I have a very close to 6 year old who is having a MAJOR issue with pooping. We had a hard time getting him to poop in the potty to start with. We think it was a massive poop and got him scared and then he would only go in diaper. Not until 5 did he really get the toilet thing. Even then it wasn't 100%. So he has now started K. He was doing great the first month, month and a half then all the sudden he is starting to go at school! Mostly what happens is they go on the playground and he ends up getting started then stops. By then his pants are 'streaked'. Right now it is about every other day, some times every third day. I have started a habit of when we come home he has to go sit on the potty. Hoping I can re train his body to go then, not at school.

So....PLEASE..any words of adivse?? I'm afraid what has happen is long ago his sphnicter (sp) has gotten stretched and goes back to not 'feeling' it correctly and goes. Our plan of action right now was to try miralax at Thanksgiving when we had a good week at home and family to help watch him..but don't know if it would hlep!

I just don't know....I am sooo frustrated. I am kinda keeping it from the teacher. I orginally told her what was going on and she said if it kept up we might need to take him out of school. Not an option at this point. I don't think it's a school problem...he seems to love school, does great, has friends and has adjusted very well!

Help...help....help....help!!!


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## robinkate (May 5, 2005)

Just wanted to post an update, dd has been pooping in the potty! I started giving her a probiotic and after a month she was going in the potty easily. We ran out of the probiotic for a few days and she got constipated again. We're still working to get back on track but things are so much better now.








adtake, no advice but I am sure the school cannot legally ask your son to stay home. Hope you find an answer soon.


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *adtake* 
I have a very close to 6 year old who is having a MAJOR issue with pooping. We had a hard time getting him to poop in the potty to start with. We think it was a massive poop and got him scared and then he would only go in diaper. Not until 5 did he really get the toilet thing. Even then it wasn't 100%. So he has now started K. He was doing great the first month, month and a half then all the sudden he is starting to go at school! Mostly what happens is they go on the playground and he ends up getting started then stops. By then his pants are 'streaked'. Right now it is about every other day, some times every third day. I have started a habit of when we come home he has to go sit on the potty. Hoping I can re train his body to go then, not at school.

So....PLEASE..any words of adivse?? I'm afraid what has happen is long ago his sphnicter (sp) has gotten stretched and goes back to not 'feeling' it correctly and goes. Our plan of action right now was to try miralax at Thanksgiving when we had a good week at home and family to help watch him..but don't know if it would hlep!

I just don't know....I am sooo frustrated. I am kinda keeping it from the teacher. I orginally told her what was going on and she said if it kept up we might need to take him out of school. Not an option at this point. I don't think it's a school problem...he seems to love school, does great, has friends and has adjusted very well!

Help...help....help....help!!!

My son was on Miralax for 3 years. I do think it helped at first, but then contributred to a vicious cycle which we are still struggling to break. I posted above over a month ago and we are just getting back on track. Things that have helped us recently include using a calendar and marking poops with a star and occasional trips to Chuck E. Cheese. This also helps me keep track of if it has been 3 or 4 or 5 or whatever days and plan some sort of action. In terms of encouraging toilet sitting we have a portable DVD player in the bathroom. However, toilet sitting doesn't seem to help with pooping.

What has helped most recently is a very low dose of magnesium citrate when it has been 3 days with no poop. It is very effective and quick acting, and tastes good. One to two ounces seems to work with DS and has given him some positive pooping experiences, so he is slowly becoming less likely to avoid pooping.

If his muscles have stretched out he will most likely need long-term stool softening (of whatever sort, Mirlax, MOM, etc.) until the muscles regain their tone and he can again feel the need to poop. I'd talk to a pediatric gastroenterologist if you are concerned about this. Also, the school cannot just kick him out - all children are entitled to free public education, including special accomodations if needed.


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *adtake* 
So....PLEASE..any words of adivse?? I'm afraid what has happen is long ago his sphnicter (sp) has gotten stretched and goes back to not 'feeling' it correctly and goes. Our plan of action right now was to try miralax at Thanksgiving when we had a good week at home and family to help watch him..but don't know if it would hlep!

I just don't know....I am sooo frustrated. I am kinda keeping it from the teacher. I orginally told her what was going on and she said if it kept up we might need to take him out of school. Not an option at this point. I don't think it's a school problem...he seems to love school, does great, has friends and has adjusted very well!

Help...help....help....help!!!

Do you currently give you ds anything to help him go, i.e. supplements, MOM, mag citrate, etc.? I'd gently recommend not using Miralax; it seems to work by shocking the system and is a rather harsh chemical with warnings to avoid contact with the skin/use a mask, ect (not sure why this is then appropriate to put inside our children's bodies). We've had good success with using mag citrate. I use Ionic Fizz because it disolves completely in water, tastes good, and has quality minerals/vitamins that my ds probably needs. B vitamins are important for mag absorption. I also add vit. C (that can have a lax. effect at high enough doses and still be safe), sometimes fiber if he isn't currently stopped up, spirulina because he doesn't eat veggies







, and top it off with prune juice. As long as we're consistent with this, ds goes regularly. Right now he seems to be a bit stopped up because we got out of our routine and he missed a few days







Thanksgiving week probably won't be enough time to get his bowels retrained if that's the issue, but it's certainly an ideal time to clean him out and get the process started.

If your ds seems to be having issues with pooping during recess (and then retaining to avoid disruption of play or unavailability of the toilet?) then perhaps you could work with the school to have him go to the bathroom and sit on the potty for a few minutes before recess. The teacher is out of line saying that, and unless he's at a private school (even then I'm not sure) they can't remove your child because of potty issues. My dh is an elementary school counselor and frequently has a child with potty issues. One child with encopresis had to have his clothes changed daily because of leakage issues. Someone other than or in addition to his teacher should be able to give you some assistance with how to handle the situation at school. And it should be done in such a way that he's treated as normal and in no way shamed for needing extra time on the potty or the occasional change of clothes.


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *robinkate* 
Just wanted to post an update, dd has been pooping in the potty! I started giving her a probiotic and after a month she was going in the potty easily. We ran out of the probiotic for a few days and she got constipated again. We're still working to get back on track but things are so much better now.

What kind of probiotic are you using?


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Okay, I'm on a roll here tonight







. Has anyone's dc had constipation issues due to food sensitivites, particularly dairy and wheat? My ds has been constipated since infancy and I just wonder if that could be a trigger for him. He loves yogurt and crackers/cereal (we've cut out the goldfish so that's a plus). I wanted to cut it out a year ago and see if there was any improvement but dh wouldn't go for it ("wait until he's older and can be reasoned with"







).


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## Momalea (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
Okay, I'm on a roll here tonight







. Has anyone's dc had constipation issues due to food sensitivites, particularly dairy and wheat? My ds has been constipated since infancy and I just wonder if that could be a trigger for him. He loves yogurt and crackers/cereal (we've cut out the goldfish so that's a plus). I wanted to cut it out a year ago and see if there was any improvement but dh wouldn't go for it ("wait until he's older and can be reasoned with"







).


Food allergies are a very common cause of constipation. I recently read a book by a naturopath who specializes in irritable bowel syndrome (childhood constipation/encopresis being one type) and to summarize the book-IBS is caused by:
1) food allergies (he highly recommended blood testing for IgG & IgE)
2) intestinal parsites (much more common than you may think)
3) intestinal bacteria/candida (lack of enough healthy bacteria)

If you want to look at his approach, his name is Dr.Stephen Wangen and his website is: http://www.ibstreatmentcenter.com/index.htm

The book is okay-it's informational but could have had more specifics. In some ways it was like a very long ad for his clinic. I think you can get the jist of what he says from his website.

We're currently using magnesium citrate and scheduled potty sitting with our dd which is working well, but she still needs this help for regular bms. I'm thinking allergy testing is the next step, but I need to psyche her up for the blood test first.


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## adtake (Feb 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
Do you currently give you ds anything to help him go, i.e. supplements, MOM, mag citrate, etc.?

The only things he gets are multi vit, probiotic and DHA. I may have been a bit confusing about the whole thing. He is NOT having a 'going' problem. He can and does go daily.

If your ds seems to be having issues with pooping during recess (and then retaining to avoid disruption of play or unavailability of the toilet?) then perhaps you could work with the school to have him go to the bathroom and sit on the potty for a few minutes before recess.

We have done this. She is asking him after lunch and before oing out to play and he tells her no.

Today I reminded him if he needed go to tell Mrs A. He said he didnt want to tell her. Maybe it's an embarssment issue. Although none of us have 'done' anything to make it embarassing that I know of. He has never really wanted anyone but mom or dad to tend to him while in the bathroom even at home with relatives around. I told him today that he just needs to tell her he needs to go and she will let him. She is really a great teacher, please don't flame her for her comments. She is wanting what is best for him and I'm sure she's thinking if school is too stressful, or he's not ready physcially that mgiht be an issue.

We feel bad for him. Dh and I are in tears about it most of the time. We want to help and we try and do all we can, just seems we haven't hit the right combo yet. I sent him extra, extra underware today in his backpack. Normally he would have to ask the teacher for underware. So maybe not having to ask her for some will elimnate some of the worry about that.....I just dont know.

Thank gals...keep the ideas coming.


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## robinkate (May 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
What kind of probiotic are you using?

Nature's Way Primadophilus Kids chewables


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## Ashersmum (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm bumping this thread for some support. My 3 y/o ds withholds his poop and I just started him on a daily dose of Miralax. I tried prune juice, pear juice, fiber bears, prune juice popsicles and a very healthy, varied diet before I resorted to using Miralax. I gave him 3 half doses over a 2 day period before he finally 'went.' His behavior is unbearable after a few days of withholding. He has screaming fits and is aggressive and totally unreasonable. He wants to be carried and held constantly which is impossible to do because I have an infant. I have been called into his preschool twice for his violent behavior. He used to be the most gentle, sweet child







: His withholding started well before potty training and now he refuses to poop in the toilet. He freaks out if I even suggest it now. My SIL is a therapist who specializes in anxiety and post traumatic stress. She suggested we do practice sits on the toilet every day. First sitting on my lap for the count of ten, then alone with pants on and then alone with pants off. He's taken to this pretty well. She says it's important to try and desensitize the trauma associated with sitting on the toilet.







to all you mamas going through the same thing. Please post with success stories to give me some hope


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## PinkPixie (Apr 28, 2005)

I'm not surprise that your son is in a bad mood. Being severely constipated really hurts them.
My daughter witheld so much that she actually made herself sick. Just smelling food would cause her oesophagus to contract painfully. She would not eat and just want to sit or sleep all day long.

The worst thing about encopresis, is how people lack compassion and understanding when it comes to it. They just assumes it's potty-training failure and that the parent is somehow responsible. I have 4 children, 2 with encopresis. My daughter is still young and doesn't really notice "accidents" and all, but my son is deeply affected and lacks self-confidence because of it.


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ashersmum* 
I'm bumping this thread for some support. My 3 y/o ds withholds his poop and I just started him on a daily dose of Miralax. I tried prune juice, pear juice, fiber bears, prune juice popsicles and a very healthy, varied diet before I resorted to using Miralax. I gave him 3 half doses over a 2 day period before he finally 'went.' His behavior is unbearable after a few days of withholding. He has screaming fits and is aggressive and totally unreasonable. He wants to be carried and held constantly which is impossible to do because I have an infant. I have been called into his preschool twice for his violent behavior. He used to be the most gentle, sweet child







: His withholding started well before potty training and now he refuses to poop in the toilet. He freaks out if I even suggest it now. My SIL is a therapist who specializes in anxiety and post traumatic stress. She suggested we do practice sits on the toilet every day. First sitting on my lap for the count of ten, then alone with pants on and then alone with pants off. He's taken to this pretty well. She says it's important to try and desensitize the trauma associated with sitting on the toilet.







to all you mamas going through the same thing. Please post with success stories to give me some hope









Many moms here, including myself, have had very similar experiences. Keeping your DS poop's soft for a while is going to be really important to him learning to not hold his poop. He's going to need a good number of positive poop experiences (moths of them, most likely) to undo the discomfort of passing really hard ones. KWIM? It sounds like you have issues with the toilet, and with passing hard stools - and those are separate isses.

My DS is 4 1/2 and we have been dealing with constipation issues for 4 years. We have our ups and downs, and he took Miralax for about 3 1/2 years. He's old enough now to use more behavioral measures, rewards, and encouragement, but those things really did not work well until very recently. It does get better and having soft poops will really help - but even with soft poo it may take a while for him to stop holding it in (and all the discomfort, crankiness, etc. that goes along with that).

At the age your DS is now I found it helpful to keep a calendar of poops and have a plan of action for the number of days of no poop. For instance, Miralax was daily, on day 3 if we had no poo I'd give him a 1/2 chocolate exlax (or MOM, or whatever he's take), if that didn't work then on day 5 I'd do a whole exlax, and on day 7 a suppository or enema (we rarely got that far along). Now I use Magnesium Citrate for the occasional stop-up.


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## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

I have not read this whole thread, but my DD also suffers from constipation. She actually learned to use the potty at 18 months, but then she couldn't poop in it so she asked to go back to diapers.

The strange thing was that every time my mom was here, she would poop every day. We never really understood why until just a few weeks ago. My mom was here for Halloween and I made a comment that Gabby only seems to poop when she is here and joked that maybe it was because she liked the way my mom changed her. My mom said "Maybe it's the pecans." Everytime my mom comes, she brings a bag of pecans with her and Gabby eats them too. Well, a lightbulb went off. It had to be the pecans.

I have been giving her pecans every day (just 2-3) and she has been much more consistent in her pooping and it is way softer than it used to be and she is using the toilet to poop. One night, I was eating pecans and she was in the bath and kept asking for them so she must have eaten about 15-20, plus drank a ton of water. She ended up going poop in the middle of the night, very soft and a lot of it. She definitely got her system cleaned out. And then she went twice the next day as well.

I find that when she has water and pecans that seems to be the best combination for helping her poop.


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## goddessjulia (Oct 27, 2005)

ashersmum!







you were in my ddc this summer!







*every* single time I've posted on this thread that things are going well, we have a major setback, so as my success story I'll keep my mouth shut







it's kicking my tail big time with the new baby, just in general, and right now ds (5 in two weeks, and the reason I'm on this thread) has a nasty cold, and I and the baby are recovering from a cold as well, so it's just nuts here. oh yeah, and ds's cat brought in a live mouse tonight.







:

it *is* possible to reach a point where they will use the potty, albeit much less frequently than desired. I at least don't have to fear leaving the house with him like I used to (the baby is another story







). what's funny at my house now regarding this is that the baby is doing EC, so at 4 months she poops in the potty something like 20 times for every time big brother goes!


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## Ashersmum (Nov 12, 2006)

Hi GoddessJulia! Sorry you're here too







This is totally stressful and confusing. It's hard to know how to deal with the issue because there seem to be so many ways to go about it. I'm wondering at this point if I should ditch the diapers again because he's complaining and withholding just as much now as he was on the toilet







: I LOVE Miralax. Never thought I'd hear myself say that! I'm just so glad that he's not clogged up any more. Today he was a different child - a joy to be with (although he didn't poop today and showed no signs of needing to). A heard some advice to not talk about the poop/needing to go AT ALL to your child so as not to make it an issue. Just treat it as a very normal occurrence (which it is) no pressure. I'm going to try that now because I really having been talking/thinking about it too much. Good luck with the ECing. That seems like a lot of work!


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

topping for two moms on the toddler forum.....


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## Way Up North (Sep 15, 2007)

Just subbing in so I can read through all of this. I have a 29 month old who has had constipation issues her whole life and now, after being sick, constipated and passing (er, not passing, they got stuck!) very hard stool she is with holding and even the signs of having to go are disappearing completely despite high doses of lactulose and all the 'right' foods, liquids, flax etc. I am now haveing to give her a supp every 4-5 days because she can't sleep and is miserable and not eating but won't go. What comes out eventually is diarhea after super soft very pass-able stuff but she won't let go.
So I'll be back!
L


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## AmyShin (Aug 30, 2005)

So here I am, jumping on the poop wagon! Wish my DD would... can't believe after all the googling I find all this here on MDC in my backyard! I have been so torn between using Miralax and knowing that it is such a major UNnatural chemical solution... glad to see that other moms are like me... just glad there is an answer!!!

DD is 3.2, she has been having poop issues for about 9 months. I go away for a weekend (my first weekend away) and come back to a constipated baby and a future of skid marks and withholding. She has not been constipated since that one time... but the kid apparently has a memory like an elephant.

The last couple weeks we have been potty training and she is very excited about panties and will pull them down and climb on the potty and pee on her own. But she is holding (and leaking) until she wears a diaper to poo. We have preschool 4 mornings a week and I have a feeling she saves it for then. (They are ok with diapers there.)

After reading about the behavior issues... suddenly a lot of her "spiritedness" is becoming clear... and I'll bet predictable based on the bloated belly.

I've never been steady with the Miralax. I just dose her once in a while when I realize she hasn't had a big messy diaper in a few days. I do 1 tsp in 2 oz. of juice (she usually doesn't get juice so she sucks it right down with no question) twice in 24 hours. That usually stimulates a few messy diapers in a row and seems to clear her. She is a GREAT eater (knock on wood) so I can feed her lots of veggies and fruits and she loves her steel cut oats every morning. She also has spinach/fruit smoothies with CodLiver oil and Flax oil and yogurt 3-4 times a week. That is probably why she hasn't had any further issues with constipation.

Although... tell me what is "too firm" for bowel movements? My peditrician recommended the miralax and suggested peanut butter is the best consistency. Any other recommendations? Did someone say oatmeal? That seems runnier than peanut butter. OMG, this is TMI. 

I can't wait until my DH comes home from out of town on business tomorrow. He is going to read all 12 @!#$!# pages of this thread! This is going to give us the strength to stop worrying about this and let her take control. As long as we can control the Magic Miralax and she is peeing on the potty... it feels like progress. And as long as the paraprofessional at preschool doesn't start charging us per pound.... UGH... the woman is a SAINT.

God bless you ladies! Thanks for all your progress reports.


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## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

I posted before but thought i would give an update. We are still using pecans and having great luck!! My daughter is pretty regular right now and she just has to eat a few pecans a day. She knows that they help her poop so she eats them.

If she skips more than 2 days of eating pecans, she does go back to being constipated so i keep a pretty big supply of pecans on hand.


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## smallburger (Jan 29, 2008)

just went through a similar situation with 2.5yo dd. it's hard not to freak out thinking your kid is setting themselves up for a lifetime of bowel issues. i took bits and pieces of advice from other mom friends and basically just fed her stuff to keep her loose. she was not exactly constipated, but would keep herself from pooping for days at a time, even though she needed to. raisins and graham crackers are my favoritesm, and someone told me that the 'p' fruits are the best for this (pears, peaches, plums), which are hard to find this time of year, but dried and canned will do as well. i just tried not stress and gave her a diaper if she asked for it... basically foregoing the potty lesson in favor of just getting it out of her. once she started pooping again, i would just take off her pants when she started talking about needing to poop. we had one accident on the kitchen floor, but since then, she's been able to get to the potty and doesn't freak out nearly as much. she still says she doesn't want to poop, but i think she's figured out finally that she doesn't have a choice. still will only use the little potty, and not the big one for poop, but who cares!

good luck, and know that you are in good company! there's lots of pooping phobia out there.


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## boatbaby (Aug 30, 2004)

This is such a long thread, so sorry if this is old news... I didn't have time to read everything.

Just wanted to say quickly -- we were in the same boat and I was able to quickly find the culprit (took a few months) in his newest favorite food -- chocolate milk. DS never had any cow's milks until about age 3, and then he discovered choc. milk and also had the major constipation and potty fears.

We stopped the cow's milks -- it ended within about 48 hours. A kept him milk free for several weeks, happy pooper. Let him have some milk... BAM! Plugged up again.
If you google "milk allergy constipation" you'll find lots of info...

Here is a quick quote from a study backing this up:

*Researchers at the University of Palermo in Italy worked with 65 children with chronic constipation. All of these children had been treated with laxatives when dietary measures had failed. Even with the medical treatment, these children were still constipated, having hard, painful stools only every 3 to 15 days. Forty-nine of the their little bottoms had fissures and redness or swelling from the hard plugs of stool.

Each child received either cow's milk or soymilk for 2 weeks, with no one knowing which was which. Next, they had a week during which they could eat and drink anything they wanted to wash out the effects of the first 2 weeks. Then they switched sides for 2 weeks and got the milk that they didn't get the first time. Careful recordings of the bowel habits were made.

When the secret code was broken at the end of the study, they found status quo constipation for each child while he or she was on cow's milk. But while they were taking soymilk (which causes firmer stools in most kids), 68% of these kids were no longer constipated! The redness, swelling, and fissures on their bottoms healed (New England Journal of Medicine, 1998; 339:1100-1104). How wonderful to finally have relief after diet and medicines hadn't worked for so long!

The results were most dramatic in kids who also had frequent runny noses, eczema, or wheezing. Nevertheless, sometimes constipation can be the only symptom of cow's milk intolerance.

This has broad implications. The children in this study were those with severe chronic constipation that was unresponsive to medications. I am convinced that they are only the tip of the iceberg. There must be a much larger group of mildly allergic children whose constipation improves with laxatives. Time may prove that it is better for these children to avoid the offending protein by switching milks rather than being treated with laxatives.

Presumably, swelling of the intestinal lining causes the constipation. Whatever the exact mechanism, the problem is with the protein in cow's milk, not with the fat or lactose (the sugar). Skim milk or lactose-free milk will not help with this one. Switching to soymilk and other soy products might transform the life of your son in only a couple of weeks!*

Source: http://www.drgreene.com/21_106.html


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## wiggylyn (Jun 29, 2013)

Sorry for your troubles we have had them to and I agree that when your kids are constipated they are afraid to go for fear of the pain. My 5 year old has suffered since she was born and had the same issues. I finally found green smoothie recipes that really seem to be doing the trick. you can find them here http://homemomsandhealth.blogspot.com/. The trick is 60% fruit to 40% vegetables to not taste the vegetables in them. Hope this helps all the momma's out there with constipated kids it certainly helped my little one.


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## rose1967 (Feb 17, 2014)

Hello parents, after reading a few stories I realized that we're all going through the same problems..My sons doctor also had him on Miralax for about six months now, and he pooped regularly for about a day or two and went back to the same patern. lots of watery stools and leakage most of the day. Finally his doctor took him off of Miralax and is now taking Lactulose twice a day and exlax 3 times a week for two weeks now and for the first time in about a year I can finally relax I feel like finally something is really working for him. Doctor says lactulose is less likely to cause watery stools.


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