# At what age would you allow your child to try alcohol?



## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

My neighbour had a party the other night and her she allowed her 12 year old son to have alcoholic cocktails and a a vodka jelly (he has ADHD as well).

This family is far from the best family, I have given up with SS etc. It seems there is noting I can do to help them. I am just so angry about the whole thing. I think the worst thing is, this didn't seem like it was an unusual thing for him to get at one of his mums parties.


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## Mom31 (Jun 11, 2011)

OMG. That is terrible.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Funny, I just had this conversation with dd in the car. She was talking about getting older, and said "and when I'm 21, I can drink beer." I replied, "Well, when you're about 17 or 18, I'll let you have a sip of wine or beer so you can know what it's like." She answered, "No, I think I'll wait until I'm 21."

I think that small amounts of wine with dinner at age 17 or 18 is fine. I might even go down to 16. French kids grow up drinking wine. German kids are able to drink beer at 16 (or is it 14, I forget). But, they're not allowed to drive until they're 18. So, they've got a couple of years to figure out that getting falling down drunk isn't all that much fun, and there's less temptation to drink and drive. I won't serve my kids a lot of alcohol, but 1/2 a glass of wine with Christmas dinner? Yes. I don't want my kids to have their first experience with alcohol at some party where they have less control over the situation and more pressure to drink too much.

But a 12 year old getting cocktail*s*? And vodka shots? No. She's setting that kid up to be an alcoholic.


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## 34me (Oct 2, 2006)

All my kids had tasted alcohol by the time they were 12. None had had a drink of their own yet. My oldest two at 15 and almost 18 will occasionally share a 12 oz hard lemonade with me. I think it's a cultural thing that it's not a huge deal. And we (dh and I) drink in moderation. And my kids know that if I ever found out that they were out drinking with friends there would be a long talk to be had.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

I will "allow" my kids to try alcohol when they are 21


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

My sons are 19 and 16. My 19yo has never tried alcohol, by choice. He's simply not interested. He has smoked pot once or twice, though.

DS2 has sipped on beer and wine occasionally since he was about 14. He's a foodie and is interested in the way wine pairs with meals. I'm okay with it. AFAIK, he hasn't been drinking with friends. The friends of his who DO partake in mind-altering substances are potheads, not drinkers. Probably about 50% of his friends smoke weed and the other 50% are straight.

I would not, however, hand him a full martini or Jello shots. The most he's ever had is probably 2-3 oz. of wine at one sitting.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I'm not sure. I might allow an older child (like 13 or 14) to try a sip of wine or beer that was mine, but I wouldn't allow them to have a cocktail or a full glass with me until they're 21. I'd be careful though. My body cannot process alcohol very well due to an enzyme deficiency (alcohol flush reaction), so it's actually physically uncomfortable for me (painful skin flush, headache, nausea). Since it also increases certain cancer risks with exposure to alcohol, I don't feel comfortable allowing my kids a lot of exposure while they're young. We'll talk to them about it.

I'd be tempted to at least test it before they went to college so that they would KNOW if they have this deficiency or not so they could make an informed decision about alcohol use, but I don't know. It might depend on the kid, even.


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

My kids are Catholic and so they'll have wine at communion starting towards the end of 2nd grade. My 7 year old has had a teeny tiny sip of beer once. DH was drinking a beer and he wanted to know what it tasted like. We're not big drinkers here (DH will have an occassional like once a month beer, if that and I might have a glass of sangria a couple times a year)...but I don't want him thinking it's forbidden fruit. So, DH let him have a tiny sip and then we had a talk about how you need to be 21 to legally drink more than just a sip. Here in Ohio, it is actually legal for a parent to allow a child to drink at home or in a restaurant, so we didn't break the law ( :lol: ) and the sip was smaller than one would have of communion wine. No way would I allow them to try a shot or a cocktail though...not until they were closer to senior in high school or something.


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## IrishWristwatch (Sep 15, 2011)

I admit I've let Dd have a couple sips (and they were just that, a couple sips) of wine, she was curious about it. She didn't like it, but she was satisfied that she got to try it and has not asked since. We talked about it frankly, the effects of alcohol and why by law, only adults are allowed to drink it. She's little, of course, so it was in a way she understands, but it was a good lead in to a good discussion that I think with kids today, needs to start early. If I don't talk to her about it, I can be sure her peers will, even as a homeschooler, and I'd rather it be my version of what's okay and reasonable about alcohol that she hears first than a friend or someone from my dad's side.

I've been drinking wine occasionally since I was a kid myself. No drinking to drink or to get drunk, like wine with a really nice meal, once or twice a month. It remains that way today, just a treat with a nice dinner. There's a line between giving your kids alcohol as just a taste and giving your kids alcohol to drink to get drunk, just like there is drinking yourself. I think making it this big forbidden thing might be counterproductive, it just makes it that much more attractive so that when they can get it, whether that's at 12, 15, 18, or 21, they run the risk of going overboard on the forbidden fruit. But obviously giving a 12 year old jello shots isn't the way to go either.

A few sips here and there, with some good discussions and openness, can be a little leeway that prevents a lot of problems later.


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## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

Do you have WKD (5.5% alc) over in the USA? Thats wht he wanted first of all but because they weren't his mums she said he had to ask the person whos drink it was for one of those. In the mean time, he could have a cocktail (alcoholic) then the vodka jelly. He probably got slipped some more as well and in the morning, it was the kids clearing up the tinnies etc and you can guess what he was doing (they had been up most of the night at their mums birthday party, although this isn't unusual, those kids get so little sleep, the mum kept her eldest daughter home from school to help her prepare for the party).

I was shocked...........

My parents would let us have a tiny biottle of beer at christmas/bonfire night from early teens, but it was literally just that and I do kinda believe in introducing your kids to alcohol within the family home in a safe surrounding while learning about alcohol etc. But what this kid was drinking just seemed way over the top to me.

I just feel so bad for the kids, its been 3 years of listening to hell next door and then this on top of it, it just drives me nuts.


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## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

Just to add as well, I don't believe I am the perfect parent, DH and I have numerous issues and we do have family workers and hopefully, someone coming in to help us get the kids to school in the mornings, but this is due to health. I guess different cultures etc is fair enough but she isn't from a different culture, but then, she drinks and smokes throughout pregnancy as well (I am nt talking about the odd *** or the odd drink, more like binge drinking etc, she had a party before a c-section a couple of years back and was drunk...........). I call SS though and nothing gets done because the kids are clothed, clean and fed.................


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## kylie1 (Sep 2, 2011)

Note: In Australia the drinking age is 18 and teen drinking is less of a problem.

Anyway, I suppose my 13 year old DSD would be allowed to have a couple sips of something alcoholic...never a glass or anything, though! And she's a sworn teeto, like me, lol. I would never let a 12yo kid have vodka jellies-that's just a bad idea. Especially if the kid has ADHD. And if DSD did want alcohol, then I'd talk to her about drinking in moderation and how it can damage your brain while it's still going.

My DD1 and DD2, who are 7 and 5 respectively? Not at all.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Cocktails and shots? That just seems irresponsible. Beer or wine? Probably when she's about 13 or 14 if she chooses to. Dh isn't American and we travel abroad a lot, so we'll regularly be in countries where the age is lower than in the US. I don't have a problem with a 16 year old enjoying a glass of wine with a meal. Much of the rest of the world thinks the same. Also, dd plans to do an exchange program, will probably spend some summers with dh's family, so she'll be exposed to it a lot (legally) at a younger age than in the US. We'll let her have her first tastes here at home with us before that happens.

Dh and I drink wine weekly. We actually have a small collection in the cellar (less than 3 dozen, probably) and enjoy pairing wines with the meals I make on the weekends. Dd is used to seeing us have a drink responsibly and as an accent to a meal. She doesn't see us sitting around just drinking by itself and we've never been drunk. At this point, she doesn't like the smell of it, though, so she may never try it and that's fine too.

ETA: It seems to make sense, to me, to have the drinking age lower than the driving age. Learning to responsibly have a drink with a meal before having access to a deadly weapon (which is what a car can be) seems more logical than the other way around. I wonder why there is such a discrepancy in the US.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

My sons have had 1 oz glasses of wine with dinner about every 3 months since they were 8 or 9. My older ds (11) has had a sip of a hard lemonade I was drinking. Other than that occasional wine with dinner, I've never given them alcoholic drinks.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

A sip if they're ccurious about the taste - whenever they ask. Their own drink, as in the OP? 21.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

When I was studying and working at universities, the professors tended to come from families where kids were allowed to try alcohol (and tended to allow their kids to have a bit of alcohol too), and the students being carted away by ambulance for acohol poisoning tended to come from families that were strictly opposed to underage drinking. I also knew a couple people in highschool who did a lot of binge drinking when they were underage, then stopped when they turned 19 and it was no longer forbidden (I'm in Canada, and these particular students were in highschool a bit longer than most). Yes, it's anecdata, but it has definitely influenced my feelings on the matter. I don't have any magic age in mind when it's suddenly okay to let kids try alcohol, but I do feel more comfortable with a gradual introduction to moderate drinking (if the kid is interested), with lots of open discussion, under parental supervision than I do with a complete ban followed by unrestricted access.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Because I know how it makes me feel, I wouldn't offer it. If they were interested in trying it, then yes and I don't really think the age matters. Most kids are about taste and I don't know many that want my dark lager. My sister stayed with us one Summer when she was 16 and begged me to buy her beer. I refused but my husband let her have one of mine from the fridge while I was out with my friend home from Afghanistan. At first I was pretty mad since it was against what I had already decided. However, the next morning we talked about and I really let her know why I had been against it. She's little I mean at that time she was maybe 5 ft and she weighed 90 lbs soaking wet. How do I know how it's going to effect her? I certainly didn't want her feeling sick. I hate that feeling. Also she was technically drinking alone. DH hates alcohol and he was busy taking care of never slept DD1. So nobody was with her and that really bothered me.

When my girls want to try it, it'll be a social event, like DH the girls and I sitting on the back porch grilling and talking. Definitely listening to music and enjoying the night air. There will be no getting drunk.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

I let my 15 yr old have one (as in a glass) of whatever I am having if he wants it. If it is a cooler he usually does - if it is wine he passes. This happens perhaps once a month. No one in our family likes beer. He only started this in the last 6 months.

I model moderation, and I think allowing him to drink in real moderation (in a social context and with food) is fine.

In general I think the "you cannot have a drop til you are 18 or 21 and then do what you want" is not responsible. You know - your first exposure to a drink shouldn't be at a frat party.







I think trying it out before hand in the midst of people (your family - assuming they practice moderation) who can offer verbal and non-verbal feedback on consumption is the way to go.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

My teens tasted alcohol before age 12 - sips of champagne at New Year's, a little taste of wine with dinner, etc. We don't drink much here, and even less in the past year or so. We once enjoyed a bottle of wine with dinner a couple of times per month, and a case of beer lasted more than a month. It might take us a year or more to finish a bottle of hard liquor (except Scotch - DH enjoys a nice single malt). These days, I can't remember the last time I opened wine for dinner and we've had the same case of beer in the pantry all summer.

The legal age for purchasing alcohol is 19. Alcohol can be consumed at home though. DS is 18. Until recently, he was completely straight edge. For years, his garage band played gigs in bars and he could have been served since he looks old enough, but he wasn't interested. He surprised us a little this summer, when he told us that he has the occasional beer with his friends, some of whom are over 19. Since then, he'll have a beer at home once a week or so. DD is 15 and asks for wine if we are having some. I'll let her have an ounce or so in a glass.

BTW, someone upthread mentioned that there wasn't a teen drinking problem in Australia. I'm pretty sure I could easily dig up a bunch of news articles about problem binge drinking in Sydney and Melbourne and concerns about the alcohol culture there, with a focus on teens. It's just as much a problem as in North America. ETA: Here's one.


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## FarmerBeth (Mar 9, 2011)

In our province, drinking age is 19 (and some of the rest of Canada 18). I personally was allowed a glass of wine or beer at the table on special occasions from about age 13. Because it was social and part of dinner, it seemed to encourage responsible habits. I still have a glass of wine a few days a week (often my own, and my parents also make their own), but never really felt inclined to over indulge with the exception of a couple of university parties. The first time my husband ever drank a lot was with his own mother at around 17 or so. His parents hosted a big neighbourhood going away party because his dad was being deployed to Manitoba. All the teenagers were allowed to drink there, but no one did to the point of illness, not with their own parents at the party, too! I probably wouldn't go as far as his parents in actually hosting a party with teenage drinking, that's quite outside my comfort zone as I wouldn't want to be responsible for adverse reactions, even with their parents present, but I do think that in context to the situation what his parents did was understandable. Personally, I'll probably go the way my parents did and allow some wine at table for special occasions. My 11 year old sometimes tries a couple of sips after we open a bottle we made. He grows jelly grapes and he's toying with wine grapes (odd kid, allowances always go on grape or berry plants and ducks), so he wants to know what the different grape varieties taste like.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> I model moderation, and I think allowing him to drink in real moderation (in a social context and with food) is fine.
> 
> ...


Yes, I think this sums up our attitude nicely.

The hairs on the back of my neck stood up a little at the OP's description of a 12 y.o. consuming vodka jelly. I think it's because, to me, vodka jellies are a "party hard" kind of party trick, and not a matter of a complementary addition to a meal. It wouldn't occur to me to give a 12 y.o. a vodka jelly, but I wouldn't blink if that 12 y.o. had an ounce of wine with dinner. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite, but I think I rationalize it in terms that one suggests moderation and responsible drinking and the other doesn't.


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## 20605 (Oct 11, 2004)

Whenever our dd has asked, we let her sip it. She has had champagne at a wedding for first time this year as well (age 13) She has never liked the taste of alcohol. We, like some PPs dont want it to be forbidden fruit. When she asked to taste, we let her taste. I want to say the first time she had interest was maybe 9 or so? I can count on one hand the times she has asked since.

I think its dangerous to say NO NOT TILL 21...not even a taste. I would rather she explore at home then out and get into trouble. Would I let her sit and knock back a few at a party? NO. Would I give her a taste of whatever Im drinking if asked? yes. She hates the taste of it for now. But I also want her to be able to be socially graceful. Like lifting a toast for a wedding.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ollyoxenfree*
> 
> Yes, I think this sums up our attitude nicely.
> 
> The hairs on the back of my neck stood up a little at the OP's description of a 12 y.o. consuming vodka jelly. I think it's because, to me, vodka jellies are a "party hard" kind of party trick, and not a matter of a complementary addition to a meal. It wouldn't occur to me to give a 12 y.o. a vodka jelly, but I wouldn't blink if that 12 y.o. had an ounce of wine with dinner.


Probably because an ounce of wine has a significantly lower alcohol content than most Jello shots.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rachelsmama*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I read a study somewhere that said pretty much the same thing.

DH and I don't drink much, but the kids are allowed sample sips or very tiny glasses of what we drink. For the most part, they don't care for the taste. I'm really far more concerned with teaching them good habits than the actual age they start to drink with their peers when I'm not around. I'm more concerned about their safety -- less is more when it comes to alcohol, plan a safe way home, only drink around people you know well and trust until you are very sure how your body handles it, etc. I think getting up on the exact age would dim the more important issues.

(my kids are teens, BTW)


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## newmommy7-08 (Feb 2, 2008)

DH doesn't drink at all. I don't drink around the house because I hate the idea of spending family money on alcohol... maybe weird, but I'm not that big of a drinker anymore, there's never alcohol at family functions except beer and wine at my one aunts, (since we have an hour drive after seeing them they don't stock what I drink). With that said, my kids will be lucky to even know what it is by the time they're 21. LOL!

I honestly would allow it until 21... my parents allowed us sips if we wanted to try something (on the rare occasion they had a drink) and that didn't change the fact that my brother and i both went a little nuts w/ alcohol around 19ish. Some kids get really into drinking, others don't. I don't really see that as having anything to do w/ forbidden fruit. I think it's more the group of friends you're hanging out with. We only ever drank w/ friends and my parents had a full liquor cupboard at home if we ever were interested there wouldn't have been anything stopping us from accessing that since my parents only used it when they had a lot of adult friends over for a party. I guarantee they had no clue how much was in any of the bottles.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> I'm more concerned about their safety -- less is more when it comes to alcohol, plan a safe way home, only drink around people you know well and trust until you are very sure how your body handles it, etc. I think getting up on the exact age would dim the more important issues.


Yeah, those are all the kinds of things we focus on, along with the constant reassurance that they can call us for a ride home, no matter what time it is or where they are.

I haven't quite figured out what the consequences would be if one of my teens actually got drunk. I would probably focus on the natural consequences such as dealing with the hangover and other aftermath.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

I've always allowed mine to try what I'm having if they asked. A sip when they were little, more as they got older. At 17 & 19, they're both pretty responsible "drinkers". My oldest will occasionally have a mixed drink or glass of wine here or when we have dinner at my parents'. Obviously, I'm not with him at college, but it seems he's a pretty light drinker there, too. My youngest will occasionally ask for a beer, but it's not often as she's always playing hockey and she won't drink while she's training. I know that there is drinking at some of the parties she goes to, and that some of the kids have way too much to drink. But any time I've gone to pick her up, she's been stone cold sober.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

OP, were you at the party? How did you come by this information?


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Mine are 4 and 6. Both have tried a sip of DHs beer (I hate beer) and our wine, and decided they aren't interested right now. When they are older and interested, I would much rather they have a nice glass of wine with dinner with us, then have to "sneak off" and start with shots at some party.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> I think that small amounts of wine with dinner at age 17 or 18 is fine. I might even go down to 16. French kids grow up drinking wine. German kids are able to drink beer at 16 (or is it 14, I forget). But, they're not allowed to drive until they're 18. So, they've got a couple of years to figure out that getting falling down drunk isn't all that much fun, and there's less temptation to drink and drive. I won't serve my kids a lot of alcohol, but 1/2 a glass of wine with Christmas dinner? Yes. I don't want my kids to have their first experience with alcohol at some party where they have less control over the situation and more pressure to drink too much.


Yes, drinking first, driving later. You want to get p*ssed, ok. But you want to drive while p*ssed and kill me and my children? No way. What kind of place allows someone to get 20 DUIs and still have their license, and their car?

Additionally, in many of these countries that allow drinking from an earlier age (say 14 for beer, 16 or 17 for liquor, but min 18 for driving - and that is AFTER paying 4,000 USD for the training and the drivers license), the penalty for driving drunk is severe. Like a little drunk and you loose you license for a year. You then drive without a license? Your car is taken. That makes the culture say it is cool to call a cab, or take a bus, or even call your parents to come pick you up, rather than driving drunk, as the penalty is too high.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Dh and I drink wine weekly. We actually have a small collection in the cellar (less than 3 dozen, probably) and enjoy pairing wines with the meals I make on the weekends. Dd is used to seeing us have a drink responsibly and as an accent to a meal. She doesn't see us sitting around just drinking by itself and we've never been drunk. At this point, she doesn't like the smell of it, though, so she may never try it and that's fine too.
> 
> ETA: It seems to make sense, to me, to have the drinking age lower than the driving age. Learning to responsibly have a drink with a meal before having access to a deadly weapon (which is what a car can be) seems more logical than the other way around. I wonder why there is such a discrepancy in the US.


This is us as well. We had company yesterday for leg of lamb, saffron rice, marinated asparagus and frozen chocolate marscapone. You bet we had red wine, and a dessert wine as well. If my kids want to taste it, fine. They have in the past, and are not interested. I am sure it will come up again though, and I am not going to make it a forbidden fruit, so they feel the need to sneak off, drink and lie to us about it, feel guilty for doing so, and possibly get so drunk from lack of experience, and end up not in control of themselves or their surroundings. There is a difference between a glass of wine and 5 burbons. I was never offered alcohol as a child, and I had my first experience at a spend the night party, playing liquor card games, when I was 13 and almost everyone else there was 16-18. I survived just fine, but I certainly do not think this was the best experience.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> I let my 15 yr old have one (as in a glass) of whatever I am having if he wants it. If it is a cooler he usually does - if it is wine he passes. This happens perhaps once a month. No one in our family likes beer. He only started this in the last 6 months.
> 
> ...


This.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Why is it that when someone parents differently than you (general "you") then it's irresponsible parenting? I stated that my children can drink when they are 21 (joking, in a way, because once they turn 18 I have no control over it). I said nothing about those who choose to parent different. But then others have to jump in and say that it's irresponsible to not allow your child to drink underage. Wtf? I'm an irresponsible parent for NOT breaking the law and teaching my children not to break the law? I'm a bit baffled right now.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I'm going with 21 also. I will talk to my dd about calling me if she gets carried away by peer pressure and drinks before then so I can give her a ride or call her a cab. This is what my parents did for my brother and I without anger or scolding. They talked to us about their beliefs but also let us know that they knew that sometimes kids get carried away and they didn't want us to pay the price of something serious happening.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StephandOwen*
> 
> Why is it that when someone parents differently than you (general "you") then it's irresponsible parenting? I stated that my children can drink when they are 21 (joking, in a way, because once they turn 18 I have no control over it). I said nothing about those who choose to parent different. But then others have to jump in and say that it's irresponsible to not allow your child to drink underage. Wtf? I'm an irresponsible parent for NOT breaking the law and teaching my children not to break the law? I'm a bit baffled right now.


It is my opinion. It is in general -I understand in some families there might be good reasons to abstain - and it is just on alcohol and parenting. It is not a statement that someone who doesn't allow drinking under 21 is irresponsible overall.

I am OK with it if you think it is irresponsible of people to let kids under the legal age drink - we all have out own opinion. I can see both sides of the argument.

The legality of drinking is not quite so black and white. Most states do allow drinking in the home with parental permission or for religious purposes. Look at this:

http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591

I don't abide laws because they are laws (would I abide by a law that said not to eat chocolate just because it was a law? No.) I abide by most laws because they are based on morality or safety that I agree with. For me, modelling safe drinking practices and allowing mild exploration is a safety issue. Even if it were illegal to allow a 15 yr old a small amount of cooler in my own home, I would still do it as safety trumps legality for me.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

DD is only five, so we have a few more years to think about this one, but I have put some thought into it and it is an important subject to me for a few reasons. I came from a family who were highly opposed to drinking...anything...under any circumstances. That being said, I have battled depression since my tweens, but it was never really addressed when I was at home and there wasn't much support. The drinking age was 18 when I was a teen. When I moved out of the house, I didn't go wild and party or anything, but I did find that alcohol eased my inner pain and emotional turmoil, at least temporarily. It is a depressent but it made me feel less depressed when I drank it. I still struggle with this. My concern really is not whether I will set DD up for alcohol abuse by introducing her to it, but rather my concern is her mental state when she does begin to drink, if she chooses. Will her emotional needs have been met by us? Is there some other thing in which I can direct her focus besides the relief that alcohol can provide when there is a void? I will go out on a limb and say that probably a majority of people who truly abuse alcohol did not do so to party like it's 1999, but to self-medicate. I started drinking and continued drinking not because my parents had withheld it from me, but because I felt lonely, disenfranchised, depressed. I had found something that helped me to ease my anxieties. Perhaps if I had taken my first drink in the right circumstances and at the right time for me, I wouldn't have developed this negative relationship to it.

I know it sounds weird but I really do think that alcohol abuse can be prevented when there is a healthy state of mind and a general good sense of well-being. Aside from some of the maturity and safety issues discussed above (which are valid), I really don't think it matters what age (whether it be 16, 21, 30 or 60) that a person begins to drink. While I think the forbidden fruit thing is valid in some cases (i.e. some kids may go wild the first chance they get), abuse of and dependency on alcohol involve many more complex factors. I guess I'm just coming at it from a different perspective. I want DD to view it as something pleasant that occurs at dinner or the like. Her emotional state and maturity will be the determining factors.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

It helps to actually see others with a healthy relationship with alcohol. Since DH and I both had alcoholic parents, neither one of us are actually comfortable with introducing it to our kids. I know I said I would hope to be able to allow them to try it in the right setting but I just don't know if I could. I have time before they become interested. So we'll see.


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## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

I also have an alcoholic parent(and sibling, and uncles,...) My parent was not an alcoholic until I grew up, but as I was growing up we were not allowed around a part of my family because they drank and it was evil and they were going to hell. It took me years to get over the idea that drinking alcohol=alcoholic  I totally understand how that can affect your parenting reguarding drinking!

That said, when we bought our house, the day we signed the papers we all sat at the kitchen table and had wine. Well the kids and I ended up tasting it and we all pushed ours to dh lol None of us like wine. The kids were 5, 12 and 14 I think. I have always let them have a taste if they want, but not a whole drink! When my oldest turned 16, she was allowed a whole drink when her youngest sister went to bed, but we had her drink it slowly, over about an hour. After the way I grew up, I don't believe in outright banning alcohol. In some cultures, it's normal for children to have wine with dinner some. It's the US that seems to have this all-or-nothing attitude, when it's ok for there to be an in-between. I did have a close friend whose mom let her children have wine very occasionally, and they were a very good, close family with no arrest records or drugs and all the other stuff I expected from drinkers growing up and that influenced my way of thinking.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

DD, 7, has been allowed her own watered down half glass of champagne at weddings and new years. She's had watered down half glasses of wine at Christmas. All of these experiences were at a family table, with lots of food. I think it's happened maybe 4 times. She's had a sip of beer to taste.

When we have been at parties, she gets a 6 pack of IBC root beer with an umbrella straw. At restaurants she often gets a Shirley Temple.

We don't drink wine and beer or anything else on a regular basis in our house. Not because we are against it, it's just not part of our family culture. When we visit the grandparents though, there is often a drink or 2 (at the most) involved for the adults.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Well, DH gave DD a sip of his cider to try when she was two. She wanted some and he was all "Here, I'll give her a sip and she'll hate it", and I said "I dunno, she has kind of a weird palate"... and sure enough, yep, she loved it and wanted more. Which we didn't give her.  Now she stretches her arm way above her head and says "I have to be THIS tall before I can have cider!" (or coffee, although she did consume some pretty strong coffee panna cotta the other day).

We don't drink much - I can't stand alcohol and DH only has the occasional cider or rum and Coke - but I have no problem with her, say, trying a small glass of wine at Christmas at the in-laws when she's older. (Any wine we buy is $7 stuff for cooking and not really drinkable, so it'd have to be MIL's!) The drinking age here is 18, and while I don't think that's necessarily a good thing - we don't have a great drink-driving record, for instance - 21 definitely seems REALLY old to me. I mean, I was married and pregnant by the time I was 21! I'd been through Uni... worked several jobs... it just seems bizarre that I would be considered unable to responsibly have a drink at that age.

Now, giving her jello shots, or encouraging her to drink in a "We're all getting drunk, why don't you join in?" kind of way? Heck no. But that's a situation pretty far removed from our family life.

FWIW, growing up, my family drank in theory but not in practice. That is, we didn't have any moral or theological objections to alcohol (although many people assumed we did - Dad's a Reformed Baptist pastor, and it seems a lot of people think Baptist = Southern Baptist = teetotallers); but my parents didn't care much for the taste of alcohol, and we were always too poor to buy it (see above re Reformed Baptist pastor!). So far, the three of us who've reached legal drinking age (minus one with special needs, who doesn't drink) have good attitudes to alcohol. I have one sister who likes champagne and another who likes mulled wine; I don't like the taste except for cooking purposes. None of us drink to excess, and I'm extremely confident that my underage sisters aren't experimenting with alcohol. Maybe if my parents had instilled an "alcohol is evil" mentality we would have been more likely to rebel - I don't know - but as it was, it turned out fine. And Dad's side of the family does have a history of alcoholism, so - go parents, I guess!


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StephandOwen*
> 
> I'm an irresponsible parent for NOT breaking the law and teaching my children not to break the law? I'm a bit baffled right now.


I don't think you're an irresponsible parent, but I don't always think it's wrong to break the law. After all, Rosa Parks broke the law.

I don't believe that all laws should be followed rather than questioned.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't think it is necessarily bad to allow a small amount of alcohol to enter your child's body before they are legal drinking age.

I grew up being allowed to have a sip of wine or beer sometimes on special occasions. By the time I was 21 I had little interest in drinking to excess like a lot of other kids. It wasn't particularly fun, exciting or grown up to drink excessively and people who got super drunk just looked stupid and sad to me.

I don't really drink much alcohol these days and neither does dh. I would let dd try something in a small amount once in awhile but I would not pour her a big glass of something or let her have multiple alcoholic beverages. She weighs 70 pounds- she definitely should not be drinking what an adult sized serving of alcohol would be. She is pretty against trying alcohol when we do have it around and that is fine.

limited amounts of wine or beer every once in awhile= probably not a big deal

kids consuming multiple cocktails and hard liquor= not okay


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

I think we learn moderation from seeing other people practice moderation. Therefore, I wouldn't hesitate to let a teenager try a glass of wine or a beer, at home, within the family. It just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I'm probably going to get jumped on though, when I admit that all three of my kids (who are 7, 4, and 4) have already had tastes. They've all had drops of wine and beer off my finger, when they were curious about the taste. Only one little drop, to satisfy their curiosity. I'd rather have them indulge that curiosity under controlled conditions, at home, than have them go exploring without my knowledge and make themselves sick or put themselves in danger.


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## spicyrock (Apr 11, 2009)

My daughter is only two, but she has asked if she could try my wine/dh's beer. I am not 100 percent certain she would hate the taste, so I don't give it to her- she's the sort of toddler who literally likes every food that we put in front of her, even things that many adults think taste odd (the only exception being mashed potatoes- for some reason she does not care for mashed potatoes. strange...) I usually tell her she can try it once she's six or seven. I figure by then her taste buds will be a bit pickier and she will be more likely to not like the taste. If she remains a gourmand, however, I will probably let her try small sips once she is twelve or thirteen. Drinking real, adult sized servings of alcohol? I don't imagine I will actually approve of that in our home until she's eighteen, except for very special occasions. This is not to say that she would get into massive trouble if she was caught drinking with her friends or something- I hope we will have mutual respect and trust at that age and she will know to call me if things ever get out of control or she finds herself in a scary situation or without a sober ride home.

I drank a good bit and was quite a party girl in high school and college... I don't want to encourage that sort of behavior in her. But if she is by all accounts a responsible and stable teenager, I might change my mind and let her have wine at home on a more regular basis.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StephandOwen*
> 
> Why is it that when someone parents differently than you (general "you") then it's irresponsible parenting? I stated that my children can drink when they are 21 (joking, in a way, because once they turn 18 I have no control over it). I said nothing about those who choose to parent different. But then others have to jump in and say that it's irresponsible to not allow your child to drink underage. Wtf? I'm an irresponsible parent for NOT breaking the law and teaching my children not to break the law? I'm a bit baffled right now.


While I do get your point, it isn't actually against the law most places to serve your own children alcohol in your home.


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## mommy212 (Mar 2, 2010)

Well I certainly wouldn't give my child a cocktail or jello shots, but when I was a child we drank diluted wine with dinner sometimes starting around 5-6. My dad spent some time in France and picked it up form there. I don't think it was a bad thing at all, because it kept it form being a forbidden, enticing thing. Instead of being all excited and overzealous when offered it later in life, I was no big thing to me. Naturally, I never got DRUNK at my parents house, and never had anything stronger than wine, which was diluted until I was 13 or 14.


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## enkmom (Aug 30, 2004)

As a previous poster said, as Catholics my children have been exposed to wine since the age of 8. I let them sample my beer or wine any time they were interested, and starting at about 15 I had no problem letting them have a beer or a glass of wine at family functions, especially on holidays. As they approached 21, I was willing to buy them a 6 pack or a bottle of wine for their personal, at home consumption. The rules were very clear that I would never buy alcohol for or serve it to their friends, and they were not allowed to drink if they had company. They never abused the alcohol or the rules.

I would never advocate giving jello shots to a 12 year old, but I saw no harm in responsible, at home drinking for my older teens.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I'm not sure at what age I wouldn't give a child a sip of alcohol. I do know that neither of my kids (10 & 12) are old enough, in our home, to have their own drink. They've both tasted a variety of alcohols and always prefer mine to DP's--- he drinks dark beers and if I drink it's either something like Mike's Hard, a cocktail or an ice cream mixed drink.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokering*
> 
> Well, DH gave DD a sip of his cider to try when she was two. She wanted some and he was all "Here, I'll give her a sip and she'll hate it", and I said "I dunno, she has kind of a weird palate"... and sure enough, yep, she loved it and wanted more.


Same thing happened here, except *I* was the one telling DP to let DS go ahead and try his dark beer--- which DS then professed to like. Now that he's a bit older, though, he hates the smell like me. His cousin (11 years, 100+ lbs), though, will drink several ounces of hard cider or a light ale.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"I'm an irresponsible parent for NOT breaking the law and teaching my children not to break the law? I'm a bit baffled right now."

Serving your children alcohol in your home is not against the law.

And while, I don't think you're irresponsible for refusing to directly supervise early alcohol consumption, I sort of wish that you would, even if you and your husband are teetotallers. Just like I wish you would teach them all about reproduction and contraception, even if you and your husband are celibate (which you probably aren't since you've got these kids to raise







). Some lessons are best learned at home, not from peers. IMHO.

My kids are little, but we often have wine or beer with dinner in this family and if I don't offer those choices to my post-b'nai-mitzvah-aged kids (14ish), it will be because I am afraid of social services ignoring the law and getting involved in our lives.


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## hildare (Jul 6, 2009)

we might see things a little differently than most people, as dh made his living at one point helping people learn to brew their own beer & make their own wine. we see getting drunk and enjoying a nice flavor of beer or wine as two separate things...

however, it would blow my mind to see someone give a kid a vodka cocktail, though. that seems a little dangerous, and in fact, all the cases of accidental alcohol poisoning of a kid i have ever heard/read about involve some sort of concoction like that- something fruity with spirits in it to mask the flavor, be quickly consumed, and then affect the body very quickly, often before anyone knows what's going on-- teaching a kid that that sort of thing is yummy and ok for kids is scary to me.. what if somebody left a half-finished glass of it sitting around at that same party?

letting a kid taste beer and letting that kid know that more than a taste is NOT for kids is acceptable to me.

letting a kid taste a high-proof cocktail and letting the kid think that it's not dangerous at all physically seems abhorrent and very close to say.. letting your 3 year old learn to cross the street alone, ya know?


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hildare*
> 
> all the cases of accidental alcohol poisoning of a kid i have ever heard/read about involve some sort of concoction like that- something fruity with spirits in it to mask the flavor, be quickly consumed, and then affect the body very quickly, often before anyone knows what's going on-- teaching a kid that that sort of thing is yummy and ok for kids is scary to me.. what if somebody left a half-finished glass of it sitting around at that same party?


The jello shots I've had tasted pretty strong. Really not something a child, who isn't already drunk, is going to "accidental" have. And since they go down very quick, there's no "leaving a half-finished glass sitting around."

At the one multi-family gathering we were at with jello shots, the woman who made the jello shot also made "kid jello shots" which were straight jello in shot glasses. She made them a different color so it would be easy for everyone to tell the difference. She didn't want any sneaking or accidental alcohol consumption.

Personally, I thought it was bad taste to teach kids, the youngest of which was a bout 4, how to eat a jello shot, even though they were just jello.


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## tooraloora (Oct 15, 2010)

DD has asked a few times to try my drinks, mostly recently earlier this year (she's 6). I'd always told her not yet, but that I'd let her try when she was a little older. The last time she asked, I let her have a sip of my beer. She made a terrible face and told me that she didn't care for the taste and didn't want anymore until she was all grown up. It hasn't come up since. If it does come up again, I don't have a problem with giving her another taste. Honestly, I'd probably even be willing to give her a small glass of wine or beer (a very small glass) with dinner if she asked for it. I refuse to turn alcohol into a taboo, especially since I know how I was when I was younger, and I see a lot of myself in her.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> "I'm an irresponsible parent for NOT breaking the law and teaching my children not to break the law? I'm a bit baffled right now."
> 
> ...


Well..... this all depends. Yes, I guarantee you I would get in a load of trouble and could possibly even have my child taken away from me if I were to even let him take a sip of alcohol before he's an adult. Why? Because I have a PITA ex who would do whatever he could to piss me off. So if I were to let ds have a sip of wine or beer or whatever and ex found out, he would be in front of the Judge so fast claiming that I'm neglectful it would make your head spin. Not everyone has a PITA ex though so this concern isn't for everyone. For ME, it would be far more irresponsible for me to allow ds to taste alcohol than to not. Custody isn't going to be removed if I refuse to allow my child to try alcohol. Custody very well could be taken away from me if I do allow him to try alcohol. As of right now, there is actually a court order stating that I am not allowed to drink (at all) while ds is in my care. This means no wine with dinner, no fruity drink while hanging out at a campfire, etc. (And, for the record, this actually goes both ways so ex isn't allowed to partake while ds is in his care, and this is actually something I and my lawyer asked to have written in years ago because of concern for my ds's safety because ex doesn't know limits with alcohol).

DH and I both have/do drink (though neither dh nor I have drank since our honeymoon at the very beginning of January- dh because he's taking some medication that can't be taken with alcohol and me because I got pregnant very shortly after our honeymoon). So it's not that we're opposed to drinking, it's more a fear of the court system and ex getting involved. But, like I said, not everyone has that concern. With this next baby it obviously won't be a concern for us. I still don't see us allowing sips before the teen years though with this next baby.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

My kids are 15 and 17. They've had a sip of a couple of things just to see what the taste was like. And I do mean a little sip. My own family history is littered with the mishaps and misadventures of my alcoholic kin. I let the kids know that they, too could fall prey to this since addiction tends to run in families. We've had many honest talks about alcohol and how it affects some people.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

"try" - about 3 months old. that's when i realised dd needed more to meet her need for her sense of taste. so since 3 months old she has been tasting - ie licking a finger dipped in all our food. i dont drink. ex is a sometimes social drinker. hard liquor. the good kind. by age 9 dd is quite a connoiseur of all the hard liqour. she can tell the difference between malt and what is that hops whiskey? when our water kefir has been in the fridge too long she can catch the alcohol in it. i cant.

when can she drink when she is mature enough - be that at 14 or 15 or whenever starting at home. to appreciate good alcohol - not to down anything. if she does go be an xchange student in high school, she will probably start drinking at 15 and i am excited about that. because it will be in a family situation and hopefully if she does like wine and beer by then she will understand the taste of good beer. she cant stand wine or beer now.

i think i was allowed alcohol at 14. it never really interested me.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"As of right now, there is actually a court order stating that I am not allowed to drink (at all) while ds is in my care."








Well, that's a very unusual situation, then. I would certainly not drink, let alone have any children drinking or even tasting, if circumstances has required me to ask for a court order forbidding both parents to drink while kids are in residence.

Maybe someday you'll get that TPR...


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StephandOwen*
> 
> I guarantee you I would get in a load of trouble and could possibly even have my child taken away from me if I were to even let him take a sip of alcohol before he's an adult. Why? Because I have a PITA ex who would do whatever he could to piss me off.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> I let the kids know that they, too could fall prey to this since addiction tends to run in families. We've had many honest talks about alcohol and how it affects some people.


I tend to think of how my family does things as about perfect (if I didn't think so, we'd do things differently) but these posts reminded me that other families are dealing with different situations, so different things make sense.

We don't have ex-spouse issues (thankfully) and addictions don't run in our family. *I can easily see how I would do things differently* if either of these were true.

Mental health problems run in my family and I talk to my kids about that. The fact they could easily be predisposed for certain things most certainly effects what I say. My family aren't drunks -- they just get depressed and kill themselves. If there were a bunch of drunks in my family, I'm certain what I said about alcohol would be a little different. Some people really can't stop once they get started.


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## Cyllya (Jun 10, 2009)

Hmm, depending on the kid and circumstances, of course...

I think I'd generally let them have a taste about as young as they were allowed to have anything other than human milk. Probably let them have an entire beverage about around the time they come pretty close to adult-sized, which should probably include age 12. Anything between there, I'd have to do some research to determine how safe it is for someone the child's size to consume x amount of alcohol. (The smaller you are, the more it effects you, right?) While ideally my child will never get totally smashed-drunk to the point of passing out, the next best thing is that it happen at home with his parents there, lol.

Are people bringing the ADHD up because ADHD people are more likely to have substance abuse problems? Or is it something else? I suspect myself of having ADHD inattentive, and I have substance abuse problems.... Since DP and I just so happen to never drink, I wonder if we're able able to be role models for drinking in moderation. Hmm.

I do think it's bad for (most) kids to be forbidden to have alcohol during their teen years, but it's also bad for kids to be taken from their parents by the authorities, so I can't fault anyone for following the law re: giving children alcohol. Of course, you don't want your teenager to drink without you around either.

My parents always said they'd allow us to have alcohol and cigarettes in the safety of home, but we were forbidden (discouraged?) to have them elsewhere. They were hoping we'd get horribly drunk in the safety of home and never-ever want to experience it again, lol. Me and my sister never took them up on that offer, and Mom later rescinded my irresponsible brother's alcohol privileges. Actually, my step-dad did once gave me Pepsi mixed with Jack Daniel's because I couldn't sleep (it tasted nasty and didn't work!). I forget how old I was, but I'm thinking 12.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> Serving your children alcohol in your home is not against the law.


It is in my state of residence, and also in the state I grew up in.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

Maybe I've just had a different set of experiences with this, since I belong to a religion that practices a well-known weekly religious ceremony in the home where wine is customarily served. Surely that can't be illegal anywhere, unless we're also outlawing Communion in certain states? But I can see where a state might pass a law about SECULAR alcohol consumption in the home...


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## skreader (Nov 19, 2008)

My kids first asked for sips or tastes of wine when they were little (maybe 5?). They first received communion when they were about 7. Whenever they go to church w/ me they receive communion, a small sip of wine.

When they were 11 or 12 we began to allow them to have a glass of champagne or red wine at X-mas & New Year (usually they do not finish it). So, it's a special occasion thing w/ us.

Legal age to purchase alcohol in Hong Kong or be served it in a bar or restaurant is 18.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> Maybe I've just had a different set of experiences with this, since I belong to a religion that practices a well-known weekly religious ceremony in the home where wine is customarily served. Surely that can't be illegal anywhere, unless we're also outlawing Communion in certain states? But I can see where a state might pass a law about SECULAR alcohol consumption in the home...


I couldn't tell you, as none of my friends take Communion. I do know that many denominations substitute grape juice for wine in communion, and that the Bible instructs that man's law should be followed as long as it doesn't interfere with God's law. Is the drinking of wine commanded by God or is just custom? Does wetting the lips and mouth with wine constitute "drinking"?

In this country, there are religious followings and teachings that have been prohibited by law. Plural marriage is one of them. It wouldn't surprise me at all if giving children alcohol for religious purposes was forbidden.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

I can imagine the Catholics not pitching a total hissy if their children weren't allowed to take Communion beacuse of drinking age laws. But then, I'm not a Catholic. Any Catholics know the scoop on this one? :allears

(Plural marriage is not illegal, BTW. It's a constitutionally protected right of association. Registering civil marriages with more than one spouse at one time is illegal.)


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

I grew up Catholic. I am also in Canada. From the time of first communion onward (age 7) we were permitted to dip the host in the wine if we liked. I rarely did. Dh (also Catholic) reports no one dipped it in the wine - only the priest drank it.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Here's a link to a state-by-state guide on underage alcohol consumption laws and exceptions (which also include religious exceptions).

http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591

This is only for the U.S. I'm sure that laws vary country to country as they do state to state here.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> I can imagine the Catholics not pitching a total hissy if their children weren't allowed to take Communion beacuse of drinking age laws. But then, I'm not a Catholic. Any Catholics know the scoop on this one? :allears
> 
> (Plural marriage is not illegal, BTW. It's a constitutionally protected right of association. Registering civil marriages with more than one spouse at one time is illegal.)


I live in a state where minors can only consume alcohol for educational purposes -- not for religious etc. but I am Catholic & kids do partake in the wine here. Most kids don't (I assume just because they don't like the taste?) but some do & it's never been an issue. Plus, kids with celiac may only be able to take the Eucharist under the form of wine since they can't have the bread. I have no idea if it's technically illegal or not (sounds like it is but it's not enforced?) but it certainly would infringe on our religious freedom/rights if it were enforced.

As far as the OP, I have no problem with kids of any age (even a year old) having very very small sips of alcohol, and also no problem with small glasses of wine with dinner if it's for health reasons or cultural custom. I do feel it's inappropriate for minors to consume large amounts, hard liquor (aside from a sip or two), get drunk or even a bit tipsy, etc. I also don't agree with mixing meds with alcohol (so if the kid was on ADHD meds, that seems dangerous to me)... But I feel like the legal drinking age should be much lower and that our society's attitude toward alcohol could use some help!


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

The research that I've read has always made a distinction between underage drinking associated with a religious ritual (Communion, Seder, etc.) and underage drinking with peers. Kids who taste wine with communion are no more likely than kids who don't drink at all at a young age to become alcoholics. The kids who are at risk are the kids like this 12 year old who is drinking 'for pleasure' at well under age.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Originally Posted by *CatsCradle* 



> Here's a link to a state-by-state guide on underage alcohol consumption laws and exceptions (which also include religious exceptions).
> 
> http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591
> 
> This is only for the U.S. I'm sure that laws vary country to country as they do state to state here.


Thanks! That is super interesting. I was shocked to see 7 states allow underage consumptions WITHOUT parental permission. Isn't that basically legal underage drinking?

I think it's great that three states have explicit laws that you will not get in trouble trying to get a minor medical help for drinking even if you, yourself (a minor) have been drinking.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> I can imagine the Catholics not pitching a total hissy if their children weren't allowed to take Communion beacuse of drinking age laws. But then, I'm not a Catholic. Any Catholics know the scoop on this one? :allears
> 
> (Plural marriage is not illegal, BTW. It's a constitutionally protected right of association. Registering civil marriages with more than one spouse at one time is illegal.)


So....the law does not recognize plural marriage. You cannot be legally married to more than one person. Same thing as saying plural marriage is illegal, IMO.

I live in a state with a large Catholic population. I'm sure law enforcers simply look the other way with regards to Communion. Many of them are probably Catholic, themselves, and I'm sure most kids aren't chugging the wine during services.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

I wonder what the definition is of alcohol consumption (legally, I mean).

Catholic communion is generally just a small sip of wine.

I imagine many parents allow young children sips of alcoholic beverages.

Logically, it seems those things should be OK -- just like a pregnant woman having a sip of champagne during a toast certainly isn't going to harm her baby, even though the general 'rule' is to completely avoid drinking during pregnancy.

I can't imagine a judge condemning someone for allowing their child to have a small sip of something in their own home, but certainly allowing them an entire drink (or more) might be seen in a different light.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

WRT communion: Catholic churches would require the drink to be wine (wine blessed by a priest, I believe, not just any wine); not grape juice. Because they hold to transubstantiation, I guess it's considered more important that the bread and wine be "proper" bread and wine? I remember there was a furore a while back over whether the bread (wafers) had to contain gluten or not; it was decided that it did. So celiacs just drink the wine.

I go to a Reformed Baptist church, at which we have grape juice and gluten-free bread. The GF bread is just because we have a few celiacs in the congregation, and is probably about as dissimilar to the unleavened bread mentioned in the New Testament as Catholic wafers (ie. pretty darned dissimilar). The grape juice - in fact, I don't think it's even grape juice, I think it's Ribena! - is apparently because of the possibility of having recovering alcoholics in the congregation. Personally I'd rather have wine, because it is wine in the Bible; and I've been to a church which served both, so alcoholics or whoever didn't want wine could take grape juice instead, which seems like a better method to me. On the other hand, we don't believe in transubstantiation - we believe the bread and wine simply symbolise the body and blood of Christ; which being the case, it doesn't matter so much what the symbols are. I guess you could say that the Ribena symbolises the wine, which symbolises Christ?  Also, I must admit, I don't like wine...

I'd be pretty irritated if laws didn't allow us to have wine, though. I highly doubt impressionable kids are going to flock to church in order to get roaring drunk on a tablespoonful of wine in a Communion cup, you know? And there's no evidence I know of that suggests that a tablespoonful of wine does any harm to children (not that we routinely do paedocommunion in our church anyway, so it wouldn't be much of an issue; I think a few older kids partake, but no little ones). So what would be the problem, exactly?


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokering*
> I highly doubt impressionable kids are going to flock to church in order to get roaring drunk on a tablespoonful of wine in a Communion cup, you know?










This raised images for me of someone coming around the communion line many times just to get roaring drunk. The real danger with Catholic communion is that the priest has to drink any remaining wine. While it's watered down, there's more than one priest who's had problems with alcohol because of it.

I attend a Lutheran church now, and they pay lip service to transubstantiation. We do give communion to children as soon as their parents think they're ready. Some kids are as young as 2-3, some wait until they're 12-13. My kids started at 5-6, when I felt they could understand the basic significance. We offer both wine and grape juice. Kids are free to choose which one they want. Most kids choose grape juice because the wine isn't all that good (cheap, cheap, cheap). Some kids do wine. Some teenagers do wine. Some adults do grape juice. (And we have gluten free wafers for those that request it.) And we pour the remaining wine into the ground, which I guess is considered to be OK. I've never delved into the theology.

But, religious sips of wine are not the same as offering wine at a party. It's combined with the religious ritual and nearly everyone sees it as separate.


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## Cyllya (Jun 10, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2xy*
> 
> So....the law does not recognize plural marriage. You cannot be legally married to more than one person. Same thing as saying plural marriage is illegal, IMO.


No, those two things aren't saying the same thing. As far as I know, the law does not recognize me sitting at this computer right now, but that doesn't mean it's illegal. It's just that there aren't any laws about where I am or am not allowed to sit in my house.

I can't think of any instance where a "spiritual" marriage is illegal (unless it involves sex with a minor or something). Even same-sex couples can have them. They're just not "official" in the eyes of the government, because the government only cares about civil marriages.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyllya*
> 
> I can't think of any instance where a "spiritual" marriage is illegal (unless it involves sex with a minor or something). Even same-sex couples can have them. They're just not "official" in the eyes of the government, because the government only cares about civil marriages.


I never said a spiritual marriage is illegal. But a marriage done in a church that isn't processed by civil authorities is not recognized as a legally binding marriage according to the laws of the state. Attempting to be civilly married to more than one person is illegal in every state.

When I said that plural marriage is illegal, I was referring to civil marriages, which should be apparent by now and I'm so so sooooo sorry I didn't specify that to begin with. It didn't occur to me that anyone would pick it apart. I happen to not know anyone who claims marital status who is not married in a civil sense....including same-sex couples.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

We're Eastern Orthodox, and my kids have received Communion (yes, with wine) from the time thye were baptized (~3 mos). And no - the State cannot prohibit the use of alcohol in religious ceremonies. Separation of Church and State for $500, anyone?


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I think it's pretty cool so many people have such and open view on alcohol, this thread has really made me look at the reasons alcohol and the thought of openly allowing my kids to try it bothers me so much.

DH and I both came from families who literally consumed alcohol from the sun up to sun down. And it bothers us both. I can drink periodically but DH refuses. And when I do drink I don't do it around my kids. And I'm not even sure why I choose to do it. I wish I could view it differently, I just have a hard time doing so.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

does anyone know if they have actually found an 'alcoholic' gene? or was it just conjecture?

we came from a no big deal social alcohol family. i never drink and my bro was only a social drinker.


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## cameragirl (Apr 15, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meemee*
> 
> does anyone know if they have actually found an 'alcoholic' gene? or was it just conjecture?
> 
> we came from a no big deal social alcohol family. i never drink and my bro was only a social drinker.


I believe there are several genes that can cause a predisposition towards addiction, although I don't remember the names of the particular genes. I had my DNA tested this past summer, and came back positive for a few of the genes that do cause predisposition. I believe I had two alleles for most, as well. My father is a recovered alcoholic, as is his father. My mother's father was an alcoholic and only stopped when he was in a convalescent home with cirrhosis of the liver. My husband also inherited the genes. We drink occasionally at weddings, etc., but we don't normally keep alcohol in the house. I don't think I'd offer up alcohol until our children are of legal age and understand their family history.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Maybe if they asked me about it. We do have some in the house but, it's pretty rare and when we do it's dark beer. DD1 is already uncomfortable around it because of my dad, he came two years ago. He drank our cooking wine because I had asked him not to drink while the kids were up. He thought he was being sneaky. Then two bottles in he was a total ass. It's his liquid courage apparently. He started bad mouthing DH and calling him all sorts of rotten things. He even bad mouthed his Moms and that was when DH pretty much stopped talking to my dad altogether. They used to be friends. Either way DD1 was old enough to ask questions and I told her pops drank some alcohol. I didnt realize it would leave such and impression on her. She was very uncomfortable and still is about it.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meemee*
> 
> does anyone know if they have actually found an 'alcoholic' gene? or was it just conjecture?
> 
> we came from a no big deal social alcohol family. i never drink and my bro was only a social drinker.


I think it's much easier to be a "no big deal social alcohol" family when their aren't a bunch of drunks in the extended family.









May be it's not the relaxed attitude that helps teens moderate actions with alcohol, but rather it's the lack of addictive genes in the family that allow the parents to be relaxed.

May be I've had cause and effort backwards up til now.


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## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

Imakcerka- my kids, especially the teenagers, do not like being around my father and brother, because of their drinking/behavior. My 8 year old hasn't felt uncomfortable yet, but my older ones have been refusing to go with my dad alone since about age 10 or so. Hell, I am uncomfortable around him. Not that he really cares to spend time with us, anyway, since we don't drink all the time. He spends lots of time with my alcoholic brother though! And growing up, he did not allow us around his side of the family because they were alcoholics...it's come full-circle and it's not funny. My dad and I are alot alike and would get along very well if it weren't for this. My daughter would not even invite him to her Sweet 16 (not a sweet 16 like on MTV but a home cook-out with everyone else she knows invited), no one wants him at their sports games or anything.

I DO UNDERSTAND how you feel on this! It took me so long to come around and realize that *some* drinking is ok and won't corrupt the kids and/or turn us into alcoholics. I can see the damage it can do, and I can see how it's ok to drink some. When people USE it, that's when I see it as a problem. If you have to have it to relax, that's a problem, imo.(like smoking, or pills, or eating...) And when you HAVE to have one upon waking up in the mornings and that's your main beverage all day, yeah that makes you an alcoholic, no matter what you say or think. When you have blood pressure and blood sugar problems, and are always drinking beer instead of eating, yeah you're an alcoholic, no matter what you say or think. When you can't afford to take your dog to the vet when a puppy is stuck halfway out of her, but you can afford your 24-pack of beer *everyday*, you have a problem.(and he called ME to come help with this poor dog...none of them made it and it scarred me for life). It's very scary!! And for years, it seemed so easy to become an alcoholic...but I have learned otherwise. We've had a bonfire out back and had friends and certain family over and drank and had fun. No one drove drunk afterwards, some spent the night, some had headaches the next morning.

It's funny that the only people who pressure others to drink are alcoholics...I've never been teased about not drinking(or not drinking enough) by anyone except people who can't live without drinking everyday.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtiger*
> 
> We're Eastern Orthodox, and my kids have received Communion (yes, with wine) from the time thye were baptized (~3 mos). *And no - the State cannot prohibit the use of alcohol in religious ceremonies. Separation of Church and State for $500, anyone?*


Well, some states do prohibit providing alcohol to minors in religious ceremonies, while most do not. I do think it is a little more complex than simply a separation of church and state issue because I think the main issue is that alcohol use/sale/prohibition is part of most states' criminal codes because it is considered a controlled substance. I believe that individual states can determine exceptions or they can decide whether or a law should be applied and enforced equally across the board for everyone. Even in those states, however, that prohibit use for minors in religious ceremonies, I doubt that prohibition is actively enforced.

Semi-off-topic, I keep thinking of the famous peyote case that went before the Supreme Court in which the Supreme Court held that the free exercise clause did not prohibit the state of Oregon from prohibiting sacremental use of peyote in native american religious ceremonies. Mountains of scholarly articles, etc. have been written on this because the court abandoned the long utilized governmental interest test and instead focused on the the idea that facially neutral laws having general application to the whole population did not burden free exercise of religion (sorry, it's been a long time since I read the case). Essentially, though, the court left it up to the states to decide, and most states have decided that otherwise illegal consumption of certain substances is permissible in a religious setting.


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## muldey (May 8, 2002)

I really don't know.Exh is an alcoholic,and is in a horrible state at the moment,homeless,collecting cans to return in the next state for his vodka,who knows what else he is doing.Very sad.My dc know what their father does,and they know that I very rarely drink,I don't keep it in the house,I might have a mixed drink at a party or something,but I don't get drunk.I just don't like it.They also know their step grandfather is a recovering alcoholic,and his liver is failing because of it.  I grew up watching my dad's side of the family get drunk every day,and holidays they would litteraly be falling down,and some would drive home!I would hide with my cousins or downstairs at my grandmother's.So there is a big chance that my dc could get addicted,since it runs on their dad's side,as well as my dad's side.


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## liliaceae (May 31, 2007)

I honestly don't know what to do. Alcoholism runs in both my family and my husband's. My brother and I were allowed small sips of alcohol as children. I started getting drunk with friends at age 15, and he started at 13 or 14. I have a problem with alcohol dependency, and my brother was an alcoholic. He died at the age of 25 because his body could no longer handle the amount of alcohol he was drinking.

Alcoholism is definitely hereditary, and I don't know if it would be better for my kids to wait or not. I've heard that consuming alcohol as a child makes you more likely to become an alcoholic, but I don't know if that's true.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Alcoholism is definitely hereditary, and I don't know if it would be better for my kids to wait or not. I've heard that consuming alcohol as a child makes you more likely to become an alcoholic, but I don't know if that's true.[/quote]

I wouldn't even begin to try to debate you on that one. I'm sick of studies that help people do what they want. Whether it's true or not I can see how it can be something to consider. I think it's safe if you already know that alcohol is an issue for you or other members of your family allowing your kids to drink a little here and there isn't necessarily going to be the best thing. Maybe some kids and some parents could handle this differently due to their own personal back grounds. I just know I have a hard time with alcohol and I have an extremely addictive personality as they like to say. I don't drink but once in a blue moon and when I do I always wonder why I wanted to. I want my kids to know that in moderation it can be fine, but we don't have many real life people to look to for that. So I'll tell them the bad and try to figure out the good. If they want to try it, they'll try it. I just don't want to give them their first sip... what if that's all it takes? That was all it took for me.


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## Cavy (Aug 21, 2009)

Oh, that's so annoying, just typed up & lost a huge long message... Alcoholism runs very strongly in my family but I am very moderate about my consumption. DH is also a moderate drinker even though his dad was an angry violent drunk. I honestly think we just somehow didn't get the worst sorts of alky genes, & it's little to do with how much we ever tried as kids (he never had a taste and I could have sipped beer daily if I had wanted to).

We now live in a society that has a big problem with public binge drinking, too. I think that it's most important to focus on fostering in DC good life-coping skills and a moderate attitude towards booze so that binge drinking has no appeal as either comfort or a lifestyle choice. I'd like being obviously drunk to look very uncool to my teenagers (that is how my teenage self saw it, tell the truth!) As for actual tastes, I let DC have tastes off my finger pretty much from toddlerhood. From 8yo they can have very diluted wine or cider (so that's like 0.5-1oz to 5 oz water) once on the weekend, with a meal. Eldest DC are now 11 & nearly 10 and they very rarely even ask for even a taste. It just doesn't matter to them. 16yo

Niece came home drunk, puked all over herself whilst asleep in bed that night. Waking up like that seems to have erased any desire on her part to ever get so drunk again (she's now 25, both her parents had alcoholism and mental health problems, too). I'm afraid I have that leave-em-in-their-own-puke card up my sleeve, too.


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## cameragirl (Apr 15, 2010)

I think a lot of it, even with a genetic disposition, has to do with how it is handled in the household. I learned a hard lesson that I shouldn't drink that much, and I never did as a result.


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## jenrose (Apr 25, 2004)

We used to sneak the eggnog from the grownup bowl when I was a kid, and were allowed "tastes" of beer or wine.

With my older daughter, from about the time she hit puberty I let her taste things if she wanted to, but not large quantities, not ever. It taught her very quickly that she really didn't like the taste of booze.

The HUGE concern about kids and teenagers having more than the tiniest big of alcohol is that alcohol has far stronger effects on rapidly dividing and growing cells than it does on mature cells that aren't dividing very often. 21 as a drinking age makes a lot of biological sense, and might be on the young side.

I'm more concerned about teaching kids moderation than I am about teetotaling, but I also teach my kids to value their brains, and that means don't get drunk and wear a bike helmet, you know? The other factor is that my kids have grandparents and great grandparents with addictive tendencies on all sides of the family tree, and I want them to grow up very, very aware of that. Knowing that meant that while I did some experimenting in college, I by and large stayed far far away from anything with strong addictive potential.


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## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

Ok, didn't realise this would get so long lol.

I think a lot of my concern about the original post, is this..........

I am an alcoholic. I could say ex-alcoholic but I don't think there is such a thing. I have reached a point now where I can allow myself a drink once a month and not suffer for it BUT I am still vulnerable at times and all I can think about is drink, I avoid alcohol at this time. Its much easier now as I have been diagnosed as borderline personality, possible bipolar and having landed my family in £20,000 worth of debt as a result, DH now looks after the money side of things, so I have no money to spend on alcohol, except for the once a month when I have a tenner to have a meal and a drink at the pub with a group of friends.

My mum IS an alcoholic, maybe alcohol is genetic, I think that for me it was more a combination of possibly inherited mental health issues COMBINED with learned behaviour from her.

I first got really drunk aged 14. I was seeing things, I got drunk to make them go away. Very drunk in fact. I used drink to self medicate. I didn't live with my mum but whenever I saw her, she would be drinking (but she appeared from the outside to be kinda normal, held down good jobs, looked good, its just that she drank whenever she could, every evening and on the weekends it started from when she got up and brunch was started).

I went to live with her when I was 18, I would wake up to a chilled can of stella on my bedside table, placed there thoughtfully by my mother............. I lived with her for 3 months, saw here on and off for the next few years, drink was always involved. We stopped seeing her 2005.

Anyway, the kids next door, the current partner of the woman drinks A LOT. Even when they have no money, he manages to get some beer somehow.

The kids are there at all the parties, getting drunk themselves (and this has been going on since we moved here so the boy would have been 9ish at the time).

While I believe in letting your kids in on the party etc, I also believe that 'some' parties should be 'adult' only. The woman binge drinks throughout pregnancy etc, the kids see this, the current partner drinks ALL the time and the kids are in on the drink as well, its just not right.

I think maybe, in your teens, a little alcohol here and there at christmas etc is one thing, a light shandy whatever as well as the teaching of responsible drinking is one thing, but what is going on is wrong.

When DH has a beer, the kids asks what it is, he doesn't let them drink it but he lets them sniff it and they always say 'eurgh, disgusting'. They kinda know what alcohol is, they might see DH occasionally have a beer, but thats it (they are only ickle though'. When they get older, I cannot imagine letting them try any alcohol until 15/16 maybe and even then, with a meal.

I know in the uk, it is illegal to give a child under 5 alcohol. I am unsure whether this is still the case http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6598867.stm but this just seems weird to me. I would have thought the age would have been much higher (I wish it was, social services might just have stepped in by now). There is no reaon for any child under 12 at least to be given alcohol (although certain meds contain alcohol ofr instance oramorph and obviously, some children require this, tastes disgusting though, another reason I don't drink now, although it sounds odd because there is alcohol in oramorph, is simply, because I have to use oramorph regularly, the taste has pretty much put me off alcohol, except for the once a month beer).

Kids can be sneaky though, I remember when I was little, after one of my parents dinner parties, my brother and I went round the next morning drinking up the left over wine in peoples glasses, surely though, these glasses should have been put out of reach.

I think, put simply, hopefully without me waffling too much, that because of my experiences with alcohol, both personally and within the family, that what goes on next door is wrong. Different people have different ideas, different cultures etc, but there is a difference between letting a child 'try' or 'experience' alcohol and letting them get plastered. Also, drugs are bad for kids period, I think sometimes people forget that alcohol is a drug, just cos its legal, doesn't make a difference. Kids shouldn't be taking drugs unless prescribed.

I might call social services again, thing is, this woman is constantly complaing about the son, about how bad he is, about how he treats her, yet she gives him alcohol, she shouts and swears at him all the time and she hits him. What the hell does she expect? That hes grow into some kinda angel underneath all that crap? Apparently kids with ADHD are more likely to use alcohol and other drugs later in life, shes so concerned about his ADHD yet shes plying with stuff he shouldnt be having with his ADHD anyway???

Jeez, I was happy a minute ago, the poor kid.


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## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

It certainly does sound wrong what's going on over there. Kids should NOT be getting drunk or drinking alot every weekend or whatever. That is abusive/neglectful at the same time. It's amazing what some parents think is ok  I can't give advice regarding CPS, maybe someone else could be helpful in that area.


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## minkin03 (May 28, 2009)

Only once with the older dd and that was a tiny sip of wine on New Year's Eve. She didn't like it. LOL

But I have a friend who let's her 8 yo dd drink out of her beer or wine glass and has even given her her own cup of watered down wine. For some I guess it wouldn't be a problem, but my assumption is my friend is an alcoholic so to me it just doesn't feel right to be doing this. I feel like her dd isn't seeing a responsible way of drinking alcohol.


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## cameragirl (Apr 15, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purplerose*
> 
> It certainly does sound wrong what's going on over there. Kids should NOT be getting drunk or drinking alot every weekend or whatever. That is abusive/neglectful at the same time. It's amazing what some parents think is ok  I can't give advice regarding CPS, maybe someone else could be helpful in that area.


I was a mandated reporter, and if you are, you would be required to report something like this. As a private citizen, it is murky water. I hate to see kids separated from their parents, I don't like CPS being involved, though sometimes it is for the best. You have to trust your gut on situations like this.


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## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

I am in the uk so its not CPS and social services just doesn't seem interested. I am going to try them again next week.

The thing is, what goes on next door impacts our lives, to the point where we are considering going back noto the housing register to move (I have numerous health issues as does DH so neither of us can work which makes the housing thing complicated).

We simply cannot use the garden because we are uncomfortable with our kids playing out there while the neighbour is screaming and swearing at her kids (and then the eldest boy tends to take it out on younger siblings). We hear it even when indoors but at least the walls mute it somewhat. My daughters are always asking why they have such a nasty mummy.......

Gah, it does make me feel irky in the tummy dept just thinking about it.

Its been 3 years, nothing has changed, nobody seems to care and there is only so much we are willing to put up with. Her kids deserve better but so do ours.


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