# Ridiculously poor spelling in my 12yo... Thoughts/input please



## Mackenzie (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm trying to figure out what is going on with my 12yo and her spelling. It doesn't (obviously anyhow) affect anything else. Her math and reading skills are fine but when she writes, she conveys her points fantastically. She really is an engaging writer but her spelling is horrible. Its a mixture of leaving out letters, misordering pretty obvious letters (like if she were to write the word "swap" it would likely be "sawp") and adding completely random letters (adding an "n" in swap). Her hearing was fine at her last test and has not told me of a decline (and she will let me know about vision, so I assume she would hearing). I really don't know what it could be. I looked at dyslexia but she doesn't have many of the other symptoms listed... I'm pretty baffled here.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

My 18 year old daughter is HORRIBLE at spelling. Obvious words that she should know. She can't spell at all.

Yet, somehow, she's been in all honors language classes. I asked her twice when she brought home the permission slip for honors writing. "Have they actually seen your spelling?".... "I mean... really? How low have they set the bar for honors language?". She just rolled her eyes and shoved the paper at me.

The school thinks she's brilliant. So, apparently having spell check on her computer makes a big difference.

The other day, she was texting and asked me how to spell "hope".


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## Mackenzie (Sep 26, 2004)

Not sure if you were trying to but that made me feel loads better... Lol


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## ellemenope (Jul 11, 2009)

I am facebook friends with my little cousins. None of them can spell. I almost think it is like 'cool' to make up your own way of spelling things.

tommorow, genious, belive eventully, turnament, serching etc. (It pains me to write these out)

They also 'like' to transpose doubled vowels (said/siad) and double consonants at the end (funn).

I attribute it to texting, spellcheck, and apathy.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I read a ton always have and have no trouble reading words and can tell when they are spelled wrong but for the life of me I cant correct it 9 times out of 10. If it wasnt for spell check in my firefox browser this post would be full of typo's


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## Magelet (Nov 16, 2008)

when I was a kid, I couldn't spell if it was worth my life. Now, I mostly spell just fine, and what I can't spell, spell-check catches, (like tomarrow. I ALWAYS spell it wrong but it doesn't look wrong and I only know because spellcheck puts it's little red line under it.). I definitely spell better, no idea when or how I learned. I guess just reading and writing. And given that we DO live in a world where everything is typed and spell check exists, it really doesn't hamper me at all as an adult. (I'm 20, so it's not like it took me that long to mostly outgrow it).

I think the reason I never focused much on spelling is that I've always been more focused on communicating at a high level than at perfection of language. When I was learning french, what was important to me was that I quickly acquired enough language skills to get my point across in a conversation and be understood, not that my spelling was correct, or I had the correct tense or gender. The details didn't seem to matter.

(I also know my DP's sister (same age as your DD) spells in much the same way. Abysmally. But I think the reason she spells that way is it is sufficient to get her point across in the world she lives in (a pre-teen internet culture). I hope and suspect that as she moves into the adult world she will realize she needs to have better spelling to get by, and will acquire either sufficient spelling, or regular use of spell-check. I did mostly.)


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

One name for you...

Neils Bohr.
He is considered one of the most influential doctors of modern physics. He was such a poor writer that he wrote drafts for writing letters to his friends. He dictated his dissertation to his mother to write down and had an assistant do most of his writing for him. He was also a genius and a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

My 9 year old really struggles with spelling. She reads almost 2 grade levels ahead, but can't spell to save her life. She does the same thing, rearranging letters, leaving letters out, adding in letters that totally shouldn't be in there. Makes me crazy! I was always a very good speller, so I don't get it. I homeschool her and we really have to spend a lot of time practicing her spelling list for the week for her to be able to do decently on it.


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## fairymom (Sep 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
I read a ton always have and have no trouble reading words and can tell when they are spelled wrong but for the life of me I cant correct it 9 times out of 10. If it wasnt for spell check in my firefox browser this post would be full of typo's









This is me too! AND my 11 yr dd! We've just started online school and Dh and I think I should add spelling to her list of extra school work so she can learn even the most commonly used words- ie could, have, etc.


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## Mackenzie (Sep 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CherryBomb* 
My 9 year old really struggles with spelling. She reads almost 2 grade levels ahead, but can't spell to save her life. She does the same thing, rearranging letters, leaving letters out, adding in letters that totally shouldn't be in there. Makes me crazy! I was always a very good speller, so I don't get it. I homeschool her and we really have to spend a lot of time practicing her spelling list for the week for her to be able to do decently on it.


Thats exactly it. I never had real trouble with it so I have nothing to relate to. The same when she did have trouble reading. Coming out of second grade, she could hardly read. I could not relate at all because I started reading around 3-4 and never had trouble. That is when we started homeschooling and now her reading skills are way above par. She is back in public school now, having just started her second year back, and part of me worries that they will blame homeschooling for her lack of spelling skills, not that I really care, but still.

Your stories helped me feel more comfortable with it though. We have armed her with a good dictionary and she is getting used to using it (the whole not being able to spell thing kinda impedes that... lol) and have been teaching her how to look up words online and use the spell check on the computer (she is not doing chatspeak stuff at all...no ur and gr8 or anything....) so hopefully it won't be as noticeable with her schoolwork...


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Magelet* 
(like *tomarrow*. I ALWAYS spell it wrong but it doesn't look wrong and I only know because spellcheck puts it's little red line under it.).

Uuuummm... not so much. Unless you left it that way on purpose.


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## jem1976 (Oct 29, 2007)

My Mum (who's 65 btw) is an awful speller. Something that has helped her to greatly improve is doing crossword puzzles, maybe if your DD likes puzzles you could encourage her to do some. HTH


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I didn't see any mention of whether she's handwriting or typing? That could make a big difference.


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## Mackenzie (Sep 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
I didn't see any mention of whether she's handwriting or typing? That could make a big difference.

Either way... Though the end result of typing is better because she had been taught how to use spell check...


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

Maybe she has dysgraphia?


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## Ann-Marita (Sep 20, 2003)

I thought of dysgraphia, too. It's like the information going IN is fine, but when they try to make it go OUT, everything gets twisted.


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

I am a terrible speller...I always have been. I don't get the big deal about spelling things properly. Really the English language was only standardized fairly recently. Before that all vulgate (English) writing was done phonetically. So just because some yob decided receive had to be spelled thus (instead of reeceve or whatever) I get (traumatised) traumautized whenever I need to write it on the board. And don't get me started about what that semester abroad in England did to my spelling!

Anyways, I am still a poor speller and I am also pretty dern well edumacated (teaching credential, master's degree). So spelling has very little to do with smarts or learning.


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## Magelet (Nov 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
Uuuummm... not so much. Unless you left it that way on purpose.

yeah. I saw the spellcheck line and left it.


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## wookie (Dec 12, 2008)

Quote:

I don't get the big deal about spelling things properly. Really the English language was only standardized fairly recently. Before that all vulgate (English) writing was done phonetically. So just because some yob decided receive had to be spelled thus (instead of reeceve or whatever) I get (traumatised) traumautized whenever I need to write it on the board.
Fwiw, spelling may not be related to smarts etc. but I shudder to think how anything would happen in this modern world we live in were it not for standardised spelling. I coulnt even reed the newspapuh if everyvun was ryeting az they whished.


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## Mackenzie (Sep 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Devaskyla* 
Maybe she has dysgraphia?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ann-Marita* 
I thought of dysgraphia, too. It's like the information going IN is fine, but when they try to make it go OUT, everything gets twisted.


I'm not sure... from what I have read in the past and what is on that link...
The words themselves never get jumbled, just letters of individual words and her fine motor skills have never been a problem at all...


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
One name for you...

Neils Bohr.
He is considered one of the most influential doctors of modern physics. He was such a poor writer that he wrote drafts for writing letters to his friends. He dictated his dissertation to his mother to write down and had an assistant do most of his writing for him. He was also a genius and a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize.

I'm sorry, but I just had to giggle when I read your post. You misspelled Niels.







(And he won the Nobel Prize for Physics, not Peace).

I do think that spelling is important, not because of proof of intelligence, but the _perception_ of intelligence. It has less impact today because of electronic spell check, but if someone is looking at you, just on paper, this is going to be one of the most important factors. TBH, there are some posts online that I almost cannot understand or even get through because of poor spelling and grammar.

Also, I work in a library, and it seems that there is a LOT of handwriting happening in this environment... and honestly, patrons do not want librarians that can't spell. It kind of ruins the confidence that we belong there and are a valid informational resource, IYKWIM. I think spelling and orthography are still very important and I'd try to find a good way to help your dd learn to spell better. JMO.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
I'm sorry, but I just had to giggle when I read your post. You misspelled Niels.







(And he won the Nobel Prize for Physics, not Peace).

I do think that spelling is important, not because of proof of intelligence, but the _perception_ of intelligence. It has less impact today because of electronic spell check, but if someone is looking at you, just on paper, this is going to be one of the most important factors. TBH, there are some posts online that I almost cannot understand or even get through because of poor spelling and grammar.

Also, I work in a library, and it seems that there is a LOT of handwriting happening in this environment... and honestly, patrons do not want librarians that can't spell. It kind of ruins the confidence that we belong there and are a valid informational resource, IYKWIM. I think spelling and orthography are still very important and I'd try to find a good way to help your dd learn to spell better. JMO.

Personally I think one of the problems with our culture is that we actually use spelling as a gage of intelligence whether we are saying it's "proof" or "perception". If someone is looking at your writing, just on paper, and judges your intelligence based solely on spelling and not the actual arguments you make, then I'd have to question _their_.

There is some evidence, mostly the fact that many of the smartest people in history had crap spelling, that the correlation between poor spelling and intelligence is a negative one. In other words, the worse your spelling, the smarter you are.


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## Mackenzie (Sep 26, 2004)

I agree... and I admit that my main reason for wanting to help her improve is because I do not want her to suffer for her spelling or to be perceived unintelligent because of it. I do not want her creative writing paper to get a failing grade because her teacher looked at it said- well, this is certainly engaging and well written but has misspelled words so you suck- well, I'm certain that it won't go exactly like that but ya know.... ;-)


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:

I think the reason I never focused much on spelling is that I've always been more focused on communicating at a high level than at perfection of language.
I sort of agree with this.

Dd and I both were dreadful spellers in grade school. We've talked about it. Both of us made a big developmental jump in high school and our spelling noticeably improved. Neither of us made some sort of conscious decision to focus on other aspects of communication, neither of us made a conscious decision to ignore spelling. That's just the way things settled.

I think our brains were by necessity focused on learning the more complex aspects of 'Language Arts' class. It is exactly like when our babies are going through a developmental jump, get grouchy and fussy and all of a sudden they're walking. They've been focusing on something important. Once walking is mastered they can go back to being smiley, happy babies. Until the next developmental jump.









To the OP, I agree that spelling matters. It does make an impression, to adults. But I think we can give a 12 y.o. some slack. Is it one more thing a mom should worry about? I don't think so. Maybe if your dd is 14 y.o. and her spelling still hasn't improved a bit. But really, what are you going to do about it? It may become more important to your daughter at some point, in which case she will put the effort into improving her spelling.

I agree with Musician Dad, it does seem as though plenty of brilliant people aren't particularly good spellers. There's room for all sorts.

I have a mental block on the word 'tomorrow'. I'll never spell it correctly.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Personally I think one of the problems with our culture is that we actually use spelling as a gage of intelligence whether we are saying it's "proof" or "perception". If someone is looking at your writing, just on paper, and judges your intelligence based solely on spelling and not the actual arguments you make, then I'd have to question _their_.

There is some evidence, mostly the fact that many of the smartest people in history had crap spelling, that the correlation between poor spelling and intelligence is a negative one. In other words, the worse your spelling, the smarter you are.

Sure, it would be great if it were not so. It is, though. Just as proper grammar when speaking is perceived a certain way. Choosing to operate outside of those cultural norms (and they're world-wide, not just North American), is one's choice. If it's your child, you can try to help improve spelling or teach them to live outside those perceived norms. It's a personal choice. That is, you can try to spell well or give up, but then don't be surprised when a person's initial impression is one of less intelligence than you may possess. It's kind of like starting off with a deficit and trying to catch up. It'd be great if people didn't make snap judgments, but unfortunately, they do... and it's probably not going to change.

There is no proven positive correlation between poor spelling and increased intelligence. It's anecdotal evidence at best and I doubt even that. My dh is profoundly gifted, probably the smartest man I've ever met in the flesh, and his English spelling is perfect. He's also not a native English speaker, so this was learned as an adult, not growing up.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

So... Because other people make snap judgements we should cater to their view of the world? Some people work their ass off to improve their spelling and it doesn't work, they get so worried about not making spelling errors that they avoid using more difficult words in their writing and it stunts their written communication skills. They forget that getting your point across is more important than not making spelling mistakes.

My university level English professors felt the same way. They ask students to bring a dictionary into class for in class assignments and every one of them said it was because they wanted their students to say what they wanted to say without having the voice in their head holding them back by reminding them "you don't know how to spell that word". In the real world, the people that actually matter in the grand scheme of things like teachers or bosses, don't care if you used a dictionary or spell-check or asked your neighbours 4 year old to get the right spelling because they at least understand that it's not how well you can spell a word that makes you an intelligent and valuable member of the team.


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## Minky (Jun 28, 2005)

I know so many successful people who are poor spellers. I think you need to teach her strategies to compensate for the poor spelling when you're not around--ie learning to use spell check, a dictionary, google, etc, to check herself when she knows she's having trouble, and leave it at that.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Minky* 
I know so many successful people who are poor spellers. I think you need to teach her strategies to compensate for the poor spelling when you're not around--ie learning to use spell check, a dictionary, google, etc, to check herself when she knows she's having trouble, and leave it at that.

Agreed.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
So... Because other people make snap judgements we should cater to their view of the world?

Nope, that's my exact point. You can try to learn to spell better or learn to operate in the world where these perceptions exist. It's a choice.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Minky* 
I know so many successful people who are poor spellers. I think you need to teach her strategies to compensate for the poor spelling when you're not around--ie learning to use spell check, a dictionary, google, etc, to check herself when she knows she's having trouble, and leave it at that.

Yep, exactly. My mother is the world's worst speller. She keeps a dictionary on her table at all times and a compact one in her purse. In fact, my dd learned how to use a dictionary from her because she watched my mom use it so much. My mom *knows* she's never going to be a good speller and utilizes the tools available to help as much as possible.


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## Mackenzie (Sep 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Minky* 
I know so many successful people who are poor spellers. I think you need to teach her strategies to compensate for the poor spelling when you're not around--ie learning to use spell check, a dictionary, google, etc, to check herself when she knows she's having trouble, and leave it at that.

We are on top of all of that...









I guess I initially had thought that this was a fairly uncommon issue, but now I see many other are letter challenged as well







. Now I don't feel like I am failing her so much anymore. We have been teaching her more ABOUT words and how they are put together (prefixes, suffixes, roots etc...) because she *gets* that more because, like MusicianDad, we feel that the words themselves are more powerful than possible misspellings.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:

we feel that the words themselves are more powerful than possible misspellings.
Yes!


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## its_betty (Apr 23, 2010)

My son, 11, is also a poor speller. However, he is taking Spanish this year and has homework on the computer, where he has to type the answer in Spanish correctly, including the accents. He's learning Spanish spelling fast because of the repetition and the instant feedback, and because the computer keeps giving you the same words until you spell them correctly several times. The first few lessons took over an hour each. Now he usualy finishes in 20 minutes or so.

Makes me think we should have had some sort of English spelling program like this: maybe the computer could "say" the word and the child could type it. Together with learning the "rules" of spelling (which are so funky in English!), this might have really helped.

We've settled into this with English spelling: as long as you can recognize when words don't look right, and will look them up in a dictionary for things you are going to hand in, I don't really care too much. He uses a small "word finder" dictionary in class--it just has the words, not definitions, so it is more compact and faster to look up words. Eventually he'll be typing most things and will be able to use spell check.


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## mar123 (Apr 14, 2008)

To the OP: my 12 year old sounds very much like your dd. I had her evaluated a couple of years ago and the doc found my dd had no phoenitical awareness- and she attended a school that taught phonics! Since my dd goes to a very traditional school, spelling is taught and graded. She can learn the words for the test, but she won't remember them later on.

One thing I have noticed is that her poor spelling is starting to affect her writing; she doesn't want to use words she can't spell, and this inhibits her expression of ideas. Not to mention her papers look positively awful before editing.

There is a program called FasttForWord that the doc recommended. I have noticed that many elementary schools are starting to use it with great results. DH was laid off, so the cost was prohibitive to us. We work with her quite a bit and many times I will have her dictate her papers to me and I will type them. If your dd is not bothered by it, then I would not be either. Mine is and so we work on it.

The doc did say my dd is a basic average student, which I have always known. But she is an incredible athlete with a strong work ethic. He also said that if she was in a different type of school, her 'problem" may not have really stood out. But she is in a school where all the kids do really well. 90% of the class getting 100s on tests is the norm. My dd loves her school, her teachers help us out, and her friends love studying with her, so we see no reason to change. We all have to adapt at times!


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## mom2ponygirl (Jun 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *its_betty* 
He's learning Spanish spelling fast because of the repetition and the instant feedback, and because the computer keeps giving you the same words until you spell them correctly several times..

Spanish is a much more phonetic language, so spelling just makes so much more sense. My friend lives in a bilingual household and insists that her kids learn to read in English first. She says Spanish is a breeze afterward and she's afraid if they learn in Spanish first they will never want to work at English. LOL


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

Well, I am a horrid speller. I have gotten better over the years, though. And this is why. _BECAUSE OF_ spell checkers.

I have found that if I turn off the "auto correct" and just type, it shows me all my mistakes. THEN, I go back and figure out the mistakes, what I did wrong, and how to do it correctly. I was amazed at how much it has helped my spelling. Before I began typing like this (and having instant "wrong" notices) I would make spelling mistakes at least each sentence.

Now, I find that I have paragraphs upon paragraphs at times with no mistakes at all. So, spell checkers are not such a bad thing after all, if they are used as an education tool.


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## raksmama (Feb 20, 2005)

Even though I was always an A student in English, I was and still am a horrible speller. I think in my case I did not have a good foundation. I went to very bad schools until middle school.

Also, now it has become more pronounced because I have learned several languages and lived abroad spending many years of my life with people who did not speak English as their first language. I am also the type of person who prefers to converse and understand rather than get all the spelling and grammar perfect.

Although I do not believe that education should be all about memorisation, I do think that repetition and drills are good for things like spelling and multiplication tables. I see that in my son. In 3rd and 4th grade they had spelling words every week. My own spelling improved just by going over the words with my son, writing them out and saying the letters out loud over and over again. I never did this type of thing as a kid! In 5th and 6th grade his teachers no longer had spelling quizzes and I see that he has not learned to spell new words properly.

So now in middle school we are back to going over a few words each day.


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