# My recent CIO experience



## mommy2caroline (May 9, 2007)

I'd never actually witnessed CIO before, like actually hearing it go on, besides the few minutes of it at my sil's house with her baby. But we were all visiting at mil's house this weekend, and that poor baby was hysterical for 30 minutes!! I was laying in one bedroom w/ my baby, peacefully nursing and napping together, and I heard the crying begin. When I listened and could tell that nobody was in there with him, I figured out what was happening. I actually started to feel sick to my stomach, and I got weak-kneed, and the hair on my arms was standing on end. It was awful.

We got up and moved out to the den, although I could still hear it. The baby's father was standing outside the door... I wanted to say, "Just go in to him!" He did go in after ten minutes or so, but apparently he didn't pick him up because the crying stayed the same. He came back out 5 min later, and he asked me and dh if our first baby ever cried like that when she was teething. I tried to stay tactful - I really think this father means well - but I said, "No, but she would have cried like that if she had to fall asleep on her own in an unfamiliar bed in an unfamiliar room." I couldn't believe that he couldn't see the real reason for the crying... that the baby isn't used to taking naps in that situation!

Now comes my dilemma... this family might stay with us in the next month or two. What do I do if they leave their baby to CIO then? I do not want that to happen in my house, esp with my three year old hearing it and seeing that nobody goes to the baby. But can I really tell them they can't do it in my house? How can I say it tactfully? They let me stay at their house before and even watched my three year old one day while I went to a full day of LLL conference sessions... and they don't comment on my parenting (sil did before she had a kid of her own, though)... although I wasn't doing anything mean to my kids in their house, kwim?

What should I do?


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## Otterella (Oct 13, 2007)

I would absolutely tell them not to do that in my house. I don't tolerate child abuse under my roof. If that is the parenting practice they choose, then they are welcome to do it in a hotel. I can't answer for how to say that tactfully, as you have already been more tactful than I could be in that situation. I'm sure there is a tactful way you could present them with the research that shows the benefit of more sensitive hands-on methods of helping children learn to sleep.


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## LeighB (Jan 17, 2008)

I could not let that go on in my house. CIO is one thing that I will not tolerate.
I'm not sure how to put it in a nice way though. Maybe just tell them that it would keep your baby awake if they let theirs cry?


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:

with my three year old hearing it and seeing that nobody goes to the baby. But can I really tell them they can't do it in my house? How can I say it tactfully?
There's your out. If they start, tell them it really upset your kid(s) and you'd appreciate it if they could sit with/rock/walk whatever their child while they're staying with you. Or if your hands are free, offer to help if you can.

I wouldn't start in with the whole "child abuse" thing as I think it won't get any kind of good result and you seem to have a pretty good relationship with them otherwise.

Asking you if your child ever cried like that while teething was an open door. If you get another one, be prepared. I always approach it from the, "don't let anyone tell you not to go hold your baby. That is YOUR BABY and no expert knows more than you do. I think if people feel you are defending their gut feelings instead of attacking their actions, they take it a lot better.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

no way could i deal w/ that in my house. i would have left the house you were in...i think i would have been in tears. im so sorry you had to deal w/ that.


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## columbusmomma (Oct 31, 2006)

What a hard situation







Would the family be open to you actually discussing the harmful effects of CIO? Would they do any reading, like some of the links on this forum? It would be hard to tell them that if they are under your roof that you don't want CIO happening. I'm not much help, lots of







to you.


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

I may be in the minority here, but I would not have been able to allow it to continue. I would have gone to the baby myself. I know a lot of people don't want to intervene but that's child neglect (on the parent's part), plain and simple. I could never allow a baby to scream like that for that length of time if I could do something about it, whether it was my baby or not.


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## TefferTWH (May 13, 2008)

If you Ils are anything like mine, intervening would have caused some nasty snarky remarks, all done in a passive aggressive style. You really can't change others' behaviors unless they want to change, but you can set the rules in your own house. If they want to let their baby CIO, they can do that at their home. The little white lie that it would bother your child is acceptable, because most likely it WILL bother her on some level to hear a baby crying and see that the parents aren't comforting it.


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## bunnybartlett (Aug 27, 2002)

said that the crying would bother your 3 year old and keep your baby awake. Perhaps they will choose a hotel so as not to bother you.And I totally agree that telling the father not to be afraid to pick up his own crying child.it seems that he was waiting outside the door because his instinct was to go to the baby...too bad society teaches us not to follow our gut....


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## Bleu (Mar 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 
Asking you if your child ever cried like that while teething was an open door. If you get another one, be prepared. I always approach it from the, "don't let anyone tell you not to go hold your baby. That is YOUR BABY and no expert knows more than you do. I think if people feel you are defending their gut feelings instead of attacking their actions, they take it a lot better.

That is such a clever, kind of way of putting it.









I don't have any more or better advice, but I have been in a situation where I was at a meeting at a colleague's home and she was CIOing her ds. He was crying away and it was all broadcast downstairs via the baby monitor. I was praying my milk wouldn't start leaking in response to the cries. Everyone was saying nothing, but acting uncomfortable. She turned the monitor off. Still we heard the crying and finally she went and got the baby and let him play on the floor and be admired.

I have no idea whether it was just for convenience, to avoid criticism, if she was lukewarm about CIO to begin with, or what, but I've wondered. I thought it was interesting because it wasn't exactly a bunch of crunch there, and I'm positive some of the other meeting attendees has done the same with their (older) children.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Can you start a conversation with " So it sounded like you are sleep training, did you read the Ferber book or something? I know all about that, I couldn't stand to hear my baby cry, isn't it hard? Have you read xyz (Dr. Sears, Pantley, etc), it really helped me. If you still plan to do it, can you take a hiatus while visiting, I think it will keep all the kids up and the experts say it doesn't work very well outside the home."

Be careful and gentle so you don't alienate, and remember that they are probably doing what they think is best for their baby. Lots of people listen to that crap and think it's the right thing to do.

The few people I know who CIO'd love their baby every bit as much as we do. They are just misinformed.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I tried CIO with my firstborn. He was (and still is) a desperately bad sleeper- up to breastfeed every 45 minutes until I nightweaned when I lost DD1, and the total amount of hours he slept dropped to 3 hours TOTAL in 24 hours at 9 months old. What helped me was an online community that taught me;
1) My child was exceptional. All children are exceptional, but mine was an exceptionally lousy sleeper. I didn't cause it, it's just bad luck.
2) Babies were born to be cuddled. If a baby pops off the breast and starts screaming, you don't need to put them down: you can help them go to sleep. EVEN if it takes a long time, you can still help them. Nobody gave me the skills to calm a fractious baby, and DS1 was such hard work







: I did the best I could for him with what I had, but the help and support of other adults IRL would have increased the best I had available, kwim?
My son taught me that CIO doesn't work







: Not in the long run.
If they stay with you, I'd make sure that they get a break during the day so that they're refreshed and rested (to a degree) before parenting for the night. I'd make sure that the door to your bedtime routine is left open, so that they can see how you do it, and I'd leave relevant reading material lying around the house. PLUS what NiteNicole said.


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## kiwiva (Apr 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
Can you start a conversation with " So it sounded like you are sleep training, did you read the Ferber book or something? I know all about that, I couldn't stand to hear my baby cry, isn't it hard? Have you read xyz (Dr. Sears, Pantley, etc), it really helped me. If you still plan to do it, can you take a hiatus while visiting, I think it will keep all the kids up and the experts say it doesn't work very well outside the home."

Be careful and gentle so you don't alienate, and remember that they are probably doing what they think is best for their baby. Lots of people listen to that crap and think it's the right thing to do.

The few people I know who CIO'd love their baby every bit as much as we do. They are just misinformed.


That sounds like a good approach to me. You may have an opportunity to educate, if they are open to it. Many people have NO IDEA that isn't how you must do it. My BIL (way after the fact so no longer an opp for education) said the pedi said to do it and you just have to do it.

We had friends who CIO stay with us and I absolutely would not have allowed it. But it didn't come up bc they just hung out and let their son fall asleep on them. Regardless of the fact that you've stayed with them in the past, etc. your house, your rules!


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## mommy2caroline (May 9, 2007)

Thanks for all the replies.

The mother has read The Baby Book and also Sears' fussy baby book. And I gave them the little Fatherhood book by the Searses also... 25 things a father should know, something like that. So I know they've read some of them (sil said she loved the fussy baby book and read it in one sitting). But I know she's also read Baby Whisperer and has made reference to sleep training before.

It's weird... she was talking the other day about a friend of hers who told her that her baby was "spoiled rotten" because she didn't stick him in a playpen and go about her business, and that he'd get over it. And sil said, "I can't do that - I don't want to break his spirit." Ummmm... okay, so why is leaving him to cry until he takes a nap okay, then? That could break his spirit just as easily! I didn't say anything though, because her parents, aunt and uncle, and grandparents were all listening.

I don't know how they got him to this point, but at home they give him a bottle and put him in bed in the evening, and he goes to sleep. I have been in their house where they left him crying in his crib, saying, "He's so exhausted; he needs a nap." It's like they can't parent him to sleep for some reason.

If they saw how I parent mine to sleep, I doubt they'd learn anything... I nurse my 7 month old laying in bed when she gets tired, then I get up... and have to go back and nurse her back to sleep every 30 minutes, which takes 30 min each time. They want him to stay asleep once he's down, I think. I'd like mine to do that too, but at 7 months it is not my goal, and if I begin trying to work towards it in the future, it won't be involving CIO!

FWIW, sil's baby is almost 11 months (9.5 months adjusted), and she pumps exclusively, so she can't nurse him to sleep... but I know she used to get him to sleep first somehow before laying him in the crib. And we do have a rocker and an exercise ball I could offer...


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## ErinBird (Dec 5, 2005)

I would let them know that it bothers my children to have someone crying that much in our home.

Beyond that, all you can do is model other sleep techniques.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

At least in my house, I wouldn't be able to put up with a baby crying and no one comforting them. I'd have to tell them I just can't listen to it. And I would definately discuss it before the visit, lest it become an issue.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Great post, hoopin mama!

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but if I were your SIL, I would react very poorly to some of the suggestions here-- i.e., going to pick up the baby yourself, telling them to stay in a hotel, etc. When i was a very new mom, I was SO overwhelmed and was hearing conflicting information from all sides-- let them cry, don't let them cry, sleep with them, don't sleep with them, etc.
Before I had ever read Sears or any other AP stuff, I *did* try CIO for a little while (and, yes, I know it was bad and would never do it again!). Once I was at my ILs and DD was crying upstairs, and I *know* it was bothering my mil. But you know what-- she didn't say anything. She didn't accuse me of child abuse, she didn't go get the baby herself. She waited until much later and just said in conversation a few times that she didn't agree with the sleep training methods, explained what she did with my Dh, etc. I so respected her for this; it would have been very upsetting to me if she had tried to "correct" my parenting, as I was already feeling insecure as it was. Now i would never CIO-- but that change was NOT accomplished by others accusing me of child abuse or refusing to let me sleep in their home because the disagreed with my parenting decisions.

I assume that your goal here is *not* to make a point but to actually encourage your SIL towards a more nurturing approach to getting the baby to sleep. I think the way to do this is to bring it up at another time and encouraging her to follow her instincts in getting the baby when he cries. She really is probably trying to do the best thing for him; she's just a new mom and she's still learning.


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## Huckablogger (Aug 20, 2008)

I have actually read some sleep training books, not used them, tossed them aside and continue to nurse on demand, but none of the books say to let your LO CIO in a strange place. They all say if child is sick, teething, in a strange place, under four months old, to comfort your child anytime they cry. There is not pedi or psychiatrist out there who would recommend letting a little baby scream for 30 mins in a strange place. family may not have liked it, but I would have said something.


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## CoopersMommy0308 (May 12, 2008)

I'm with whomever said they would have gone to the baby themselves. This makes me want to cry!

I can handle the IL's talking behind my back or snarky passive aggressiveness, I can not hand CIO. I would have gone into the room and said (loud enough for the parents to hear) "oh my, it must be so scary being in this strange room by yourself. You don't know where you are, it's so hard to sleep when your not comfortable."

I absolutely would not allow CIO in my house. I wouldn't really be "tactful" about it though. I would flat out tell them that it isn't acceptable behavior in our house and I don't my baby to be around it.








and good luck!


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## tmareeh (Jan 11, 2006)

I think before you considering telling someone that CIO is child abuse, you should be prepared for what they might come back with in terms of your parenting. Everyone has their own little soap box when it comes to parenting... watching tv, eating fast food, commercialized toys, daycare, breastfeeding, circumcision....

Put the shoe on the other foot. Perhaps they feel strongly about your co-sleeping. How would you feel if they forbid you to co-sleep at their house?

Taryn


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## JennTheMomma (Jun 19, 2008)

Well, I know we aren't suppose to tell people how to parent their kids. But, you could tell them that you do not want them to let the baby cry, because it upsets your kids. If that is a rule in your house, they should have to follow it. I personally would not want to listen to a baby crying for 30 minutes, which is why we don't CIO.


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## homeschoolingmama (Jun 15, 2007)

I am sorry but OP definitely has a right to not listen to someone's baby cry in HER house. It isn't because she is trying to push her views on her or trying to control her. She is trying to prevent feeling incredibly uncomfortable in her own home. For me, I could not listen to it. I would probably leave and cry myself. If someone had this practice I would not want them staying in my home. I have my own comfort levels and I know my limits. If this were me I would be honest and say I don't think I could listen to it.


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

I must be really tactless then because I told my brother in his own home (where we were staying for a few days) that I would leave if he spanked his son while I was there









You have a right in your own home to not allow something you feel is harmful to a child. I would try to be tactful but ultimately I would just probably be matter of fact about it.


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## treehuggermama (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aaronsmom* 
I may be in the minority here, but I would not have been able to allow it to continue. I would have gone to the baby myself. I know a lot of people don't want to intervene but that's child neglect (on the parent's part), plain and simple. I could never allow a baby to scream like that for that length of time if I could do something about it, whether it was my baby or not.









:


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## *MamaJen* (Apr 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
Can you start a conversation with " So it sounded like you are sleep training, did you read the Ferber book or something? I know all about that, I couldn't stand to hear my baby cry, isn't it hard? Have you read xyz (Dr. Sears, Pantley, etc), it really helped me. If you still plan to do it, can you take a hiatus while visiting, I think it will keep all the kids up and the experts say it doesn't work very well outside the home."

Be careful and gentle so you don't alienate, and remember that they are probably doing what they think is best for their baby. Lots of people listen to that crap and think it's the right thing to do.

The few people I know who CIO'd love their baby every bit as much as we do. They are just misinformed.

That's a nice way to start the conversation. I think often instead of telling somebody, "You're doing this wrong," phrase it as "Have you thought of doing it this way." Like, instead of saying, "CIO is wrong," say something like, "We've had great results being more responsive to our baby."
It doesn't sound like they're totally uncaring, what with the dad pacing around outside the bedroom door while the baby was crying. It sounds like he doesn't like CIO but believes it's the proper thing to do. He might be happy to learn about an alternative.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Since they've read books by Sears et al, why not just ask them why they are letting the baby cry and refer them back to Sears?

Also as a momma who does a bizarre combination of rocking to sleep, co-sleeping, and CIO that happens to work for my child, they may know something you don't about their little one.

So be genuine and honest and caring and listen to where they are coming from--that is how you will influence them.

V


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## harrietsmama (Dec 10, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 
There's your out. If they start, tell them it really upset your kid(s) and you'd appreciate it if they could sit with/rock/walk whatever their child while they're staying with you. Or if your hands are free, offer to help if you can.

I wouldn't start in with the whole "child abuse" thing as I think it won't get any kind of good result and you seem to have a pretty good relationship with them otherwise.

Asking you if your child ever cried like that while teething was an open door. If you get another one, be prepared. I always approach it from the, "don't let anyone tell you not to go hold your baby. That is YOUR BABY and no expert knows more than you do. I think if people feel you are defending their gut feelings instead of attacking their actions, they take it a lot better.









:


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## Kiddoson (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aaronsmom* 
I may be in the minority here, but I would not have been able to allow it to continue. I would have gone to the baby myself. I know a lot of people don't want to intervene but that's child neglect (on the parent's part), plain and simple. I could never allow a baby to scream like that for that length of time if I could do something about it, whether it was my baby or not.









: I would be crying and could never ignore that baby


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## Kiddoson (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tmareeh* 
I think before you considering telling someone that CIO is child abuse, you should be prepared for what they might come back with in terms of your parenting. Everyone has their own little soap box when it comes to parenting... watching tv, eating fast food, commercialized toys, daycare, breastfeeding, circumcision....

Put the shoe on the other foot. Perhaps they feel strongly about your co-sleeping. How would you feel if they forbid you to co-sleep at their house?

Taryn

Totally not the same thing, co sleeping would not disrupt the whole household and leave negative energy hanging. not to mention the sadness of listening to a poor baby cry while no one comes. how would you feel in the same situation? I agree do it tactfully but that comparison is not even close.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

what kind of person, as a guest in another person's home, deliberately subjects the host's family (and possibly neighbors as well, if they live in close proximity to other people) to the shrill cries of an infant for an extended period of time?

i would venture to guess that even the most die-hard cio advocate would agree that listening to a baby cry like that is uncomfortable at best. i cannot believe that someone would actually go to another person's house and do that, but i guess it happens.







the abuse of cio aside, how unbelievably rude!!!


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## uumomma (Jun 10, 2007)

i think i could say this:

"baby Jane's crying is disturbing my family's peace, my i go in and get, hold snug..give you a break..( or whatever)"

but prolly not as i am a big fat chicken ( no offence to chickens)


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## uumomma (Jun 10, 2007)

or fat


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

I like uumomma's suggestion. I'd phrase it to giving them a break - if they say something like "no, she/he needs to learn to sleep,







," then I'd start with the other ideas.

I also think you have every right to not allow it in your house.


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## chirp (Feb 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kiddoson* 
Totally not the same thing, co sleeping would not disrupt the whole household and leave negative energy hanging. not to mention the sadness of listening to a poor baby cry while no one comes. how would you feel in the same situation? I agree do it tactfully but that comparison is not even close.

i'm not sure if she was trying to make the comparison herself...or if she pointed out that everyone has a battle of their own. co-sleeping may not seem like fodder for someone else's fire TO YOU. but it very well may be to someone else. and it will be comparable to them if she starts throwing around that cio is child abuse. very many "authorities" on infants and children would say co-sleeping is abuse as well.

OP-you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. er however that saying goes. it's true.


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## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

I would use the child as an out.

Failing that, be "stupid" and go to her baby when it cries.

"Oh, I'm sorry! It's just so automatic to go with my instincts and pick up the baby!"

And repeat and repeat, being "stupid" and going to the baby when it cries.

Lots of work for you, but you'd be doing the right thing, at least.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Again, I am not a fan of CIO, and I am not defending it.

However, I am even *less* of a fan of forceful intervention into other people's parenting. I am in the minority on the majority of my parenting decisions, so it is definitely important to me to support a parent's right to make decisions for her own child!

My m-i-l, for example, really believed that I was harming DD by not giving her meat before one year. She thought that she needed more iron and protein (not true)... also, MIL loves meat.







If mil, even with the best of intentions, had given my DD meat, I would have been livid...but she would have just been giving DD what *she* believed she needed.

The mindset, "Well, they may love their children, but *I* know the *best* way of parenting to sleep/feeding/vaxing, etc." cuts both ways. I have an acquaintance who LOVES spanking. She really thinks kids are better for it. Can you imagine the reaction if she spanked my DD? Because she would REALLy believe she were doing the right thing. She could probably even find an online forum somewhere who would support her.

In your own home, I think it is just fine to tell your family that the crying baby would upset your own children-- it makes them sad to hear babies cry. This would be a great opportunity to say, "It always made me sad to hear my DCs cry, too, so we did x..." Then maybe you can have a good, open conversation. It sounds to me, though, that they have a good go-to-sleep system that works at home but were simply flummoxed by the fact that it wasn't working at MILs.

If you don't agree with their choices, please just be respectful and discuss it with them. I would have appreciated open discussion of such things, but I would NOT appreciate some of the passive-aggressive suggestions above.

Basically, if *anyone* picked up my baby after I told him/her not to, whatever the reason, that would be a HUGE boundary crossing for me.


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## mommy2caroline (May 9, 2007)

Thanks for all the replies. I agree that I would be crossing the line by calling it child abuse or going in to the baby - he'd keep crying if I picked him up anyway, since he doesn't know me all that well, and then they'd see no results (although we all know it's better if they are crying in arms than alone in a strange place!).

My hope is that they just get a hotel room. It would be a tight squeeze for them in the bedroom we have - an air mattress, pack n play, plus the twin bed that's currently in there now.

Anyway, I just don't get why they do it even though they have read Sears, etc., and sil says things like, "I don't want to break his spirit," "I can't just let him cry and ignore him," etc. It doesn't make any sense to me at all...

And I have heard this happen in their home, too... maybe it doesn't anymore, but he cried himself to sleep for a nap in their home several months ago. It was not this heart-wrenching though, because it didn't last as long and there were several closed doors in between us and the baby... and at least he was in familiar surroundings then.

But it WILL make my three year old uncomfortable. Fortunately, she was outside and downstairs in mil's house while this happened. But in our home, there is no basement, and we have hardwoods in the hall so the sound will carry. It will be very uncomfortable. I guess I need to come up with a phrasing about that... any suggestions? The thing is, saying, "His crying is really upsetting to dd," will get a response from sil of "It won't matter if I go get him; he'll just cry out here." She is constantly complaining of how fussy he is and how she just isn't enjoying motherhood.







So... I don't know how to say anything to her anyway. Plus, she is easily set off by comments even if they aren't meant to cause problems. She's even more likely to blow up if my dh (her brother) says anything to her, because she gets like that with him.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

I wouldn't allow CIO in my house, but I'd be perfectly willing to be the one to go get the baby. They may be okay with that. "I just can't stand to hear Baby crying. I'll sit and rock her."


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2caroline* 
." She is constantly complaining of how fussy he is and how she just isn't enjoying motherhood.









This seems to be the core issue, no? Maybe she just needs a sympathetic ear. Sometimes being a parent is hard if what you want to give your child isn't what you child wants or responds to. It can be frustrating if the match between the parent and child is asynchronous. I know, I've been there, my DD was born a non-conformist.

Do you think you can be SIL's ear? Or are you so invested in your feelings about her parenting that you can't be open to a way that is different from yours?

V


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## Aeress (Jan 25, 2005)

And when everyone around you except that one crazy family who doesn't let their child cry, is using the CIO method it seems normal. In truth, I know many parents who have tried CIO in pure desperation and while it didn't work, they also couldn't find anyone esle in real life who had found a different way.

So offer a shoulder if needed and some reminders that actually, while some peds and "experts" promote cry it out, the vast majority of families and babies don't use this method because it doesn't work. And that any new routine they try needs a few weeks to begin working, so while it may seem that rubbing their back every night doesn't work, if you keep doing it it will.

This is coming from me as a new mom who had a tough start with her first and only seemed to know one family who didn't cry it out. The truth was, there lots of families who didn't. Even after reading many books, nothing seemed to help and I just couldn't apply something when i had only slept a couple hours at most for weeks.
Oh and to be skeptical of any book that claims all babies can learn to xyz...broad sweeping claims are never accurate.


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

*I don't understand why you don't speak kindly and frankly to them? It seems they are doing something they don't want to do anyway. I shamefully did the same thing while visiting my parents with my first baby...that would be before I knew my butt from a whole in the ground.







Dh and I thought that is what we were supposed to do, that we would somehow damage our baby if we didn't.







No one said anything. I eventually figured it out myself a couple of weeks later. Totally distraught, I was downstairs listening to my tiny baby who had been screaming for over 2 hours upstairs. Dh had been sitting next to him the whole time, holding his hand over the side of the crib. I found the "no cry sleep solution" on amazon and downloaded the book. I read the introduction and the first chapter and ran upstairs screaming "take him out, take him out!". It ended with dh and I whisking our baby out of his crib, holding each other and crying together apologizing to him over and over again. We never did cio again. Years later, I found out that my mother never let her babies cio, that she didn't believe in it...and she never said anything to me even though she was so bothered by it. My mother and I are like best friends but she felt she shouldn't interfere with my "parenting decisions". Oh how I wish she would have told me it was okay to hold my baby whenever he needed me. We exclusively nursed him, he was not circumcised or vaccinated at 4 mos old, but somehow we missed the cio part. The other things we found out by accident and instinct. I don't know why the cio was so different.(I did however, have my mil telling me to let him cio, even if he threw up...at 4 mos. old!














It's really devastating to me to think about even now. There is definitely a loving and respectful way you can approach them to let them know that holding their baby when he cries is the good and right thing to do. Just speak from your heart and don't be condemning with your choice of words. Maybe they just need someone to tell them it's okay to listen to their heart.







*


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## arahzel (Apr 29, 2007)

I just wanted to share that I feel for your SIL. My DD didn't sleep through the night till she was well over a year old. It drove me insane. I really _didn't_ like parenthood. We tried to CIO. It just didn't work long term. ALL of our friends had kids that slept through the night by 3 months on their own. She just wasn't a great sleeper.

In the end, she just had to adjust with a little bit of help from us. Routine, routine, routine is what helped. Bath, lotion, snuggle and read a book, sing some songs, lay her down and tell her it's time to sleep, pat on her back a little and hum. Leave. If she fussed, go back and pat a little more and remind her it's time to sleep. Turn on the aquarium. Repeat as necessary. It was a lot more relaxing/reassuring than putting the kid abruptly to bed and leaving. IMO that's just asking for heartache on both ends.

When she finally started sleeping through the night, and I was finally getting uninterrupted sleep, I finally started enjoying being a mom. It wasn't that I didn't love and adore her, it's that I was super-cranky all the time.

I think offering a break would be a little slice of heaven for your SIL.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Personally, I'd say it was bothering my 3-yr old that no one was comforting the crying baby, rather than the crying itself was bothering her. Then I would offer to give SIL a break by rocking the baby myself.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this.


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## mommy2caroline (May 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
Do you think you can be SIL's ear? Or are you so invested in your feelings about her parenting that you can't be open to a way that is different from yours?

V

Okay... so because I don't want a baby left to CIO in my house around my own children, I can't be open to different ways of parenting? I cannot be open to CIO sleep training in my own home. I can accept it as how they parent if this is truly the only way they can do it - ie, they'd lose it and hurt the baby, or something serious like that, if they didn't do CIO. I'd much rather somebody do CIO than hurt their baby, hate their baby, get no sleep and be dangerously sleep-deprived so that they get into a car wreck, etc.

And it is really hard to be a listening ear when all you hear is negativity. I never hear her say anything good about her baby. Even if he's sitting there playing with toys, she'll say, "Oh, this won't last," or something along those lines. She can't seem to find anything positive. My dh is very similar - maybe it runs in their family? And so maybe I hear it enough already here, so it gets to me even more when I hear it. It's just so doom and gloom, I hate my life, things will be horrible forever and ever. That brings me down when I listen to it too much. I try to combat it with positive things, but sil has made it clear that she hates comments like, "This shall pass" and "Every baby is different." It's like walking through a minefield trying to decide what's okay to say. So nobody says anything - we all just sit and listen. I try to commiserate with her, because my first was a high-needs baby. But otherwise, I don't know what to say.

I do feel badly for her and want to help her, but I don't know how - I never know how she'll take what is said. I know that it also doesn't matter if I think her baby is not as fussy as she says, it's what she perceives that is her reality. What she feels about the situation is going to define the reality of it to her. If she can't find anything positive, then there's nothing there that is positive. But I think people can choose to try to look on the bright side, and they will begin to feel better about things. Of course, there's no way to make somebody do that - they have to choose to do so.

So, it's a hard situation all around. I feel for them all... but I don't know what I can do.







But I do know that I don't want any CIO in my house.


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 

Do you think you can be SIL's ear? Or are you so invested in your feelings about her parenting that you can't be open to a way that is different from yours?

V

Cio isn't a "feeling" nor is advocacy for it tolerated on mdc. There is no being "open to a way of parenting that is different from yours" when you are speaking of leaving babies to cry it out alone. You can argue difference in parenting styles when you are speaking in regards to, hmmmm...diapering, cosleeping, using a stroller, time outs, potty learning...


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## mommy2caroline (May 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cutie Patootie* 
Cio isn't a "feeling" nor is advocacy for it tolerated on mdc. There is no being "open to a way of parenting that is different from yours" when you are speaking of leaving babies to cry it out alone. You can argue difference in parenting styles when you are speaking in regards to, hmmmm...diapering, cosleeping, using a stroller, time outs, potty learning...

Exactly. I can understand why somebody would do it, but it doesn't mean I am going to be tolerant of it in an accepting way. It's not a matter of, "Oh, my baby is nursed to sleep, yours cries alone, and that's okay, as long as they both get to sleep." I feel the same way about circumcision - more so, really, because there is NO excuse for that, whereas with CIO, I could see that parents might leave their baby crying because otherwise they'd truly go nuts and do things they'd regret later, like abusing their babies.


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## eurobin (Aug 20, 2006)

Oh eep! I don't usually give parenting advice to RL friends but just reading your post gave me bad goose-bumps. I hope you find some way to say something nice. If it were my house, I'd have to say something... I'm just not sure how I'd do it nicely. :-(


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## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2caroline* 
She is constantly complaining of how fussy he is and how she just isn't enjoying motherhood.









My baby was very fussy when he was small, and it does make it hard to enjoy motherhood.

I feel badly for your SIL -- maybe CIO is the only way she knows how to cope. Not excusing it, but it might be that.


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## mommy2caroline (May 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MilkTrance* 
My baby was very fussy when he was small, and it does make it hard to enjoy motherhood.

I feel badly for your SIL -- maybe CIO is the only way she knows how to cope. Not excusing it, but it might be that.

That may be the problem... and I'm not sure how, or if, I could help. Or how I can tell her not to do it in my house if it's going to somehow make her more upset about parenthood.


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## Devaya (Sep 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cutie Patootie* 
Cio isn't a "feeling" nor is advocacy for it tolerated on mdc. There is no being "open to a way of parenting that is different from yours" when you are speaking of leaving babies to cry it out alone. You can argue difference in parenting styles when you are speaking in regards to, hmmmm...diapering, cosleeping, using a stroller, time outs, potty learning...

i agree, but i notice this attitude prevails in our society. for eg. i recently took part in a study on motherhood where we all were facilitated in discussion, and one woman announced she was going to start doing 'the ferber method' (ie controlled crying) . I sat there thinking oh my god, but there was such a strong sense of not being able to say anything bc the whole tone of the discussion was always 'we all respect each other's different ways of parenting'. I knew if I said anything, even to her afterwards alone, I'd be branded as really judgmental and wrong, and it would make the rest of the sessions very awkward. I also doubted whether it would serve any purpose to say anything.

back to the original issue though, i think i wouldn't allow it in my house and would prbably also have to intervene, my every instinct wouldn't allow me to ignore a crying baby, who's ever it is. I do understand how parents get desperate enough to do it, but if they are not ignorant and know the risks, then I find it hard to excuse them. It's so difficult when it's friends, though...


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## bingham1 (Jul 25, 2008)

just seeing this, sorry.

You can bet your butt, it would not happen in my house and I would tell them too, but try to be polite about it.


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## Amys1st (Mar 18, 2003)

Actaully in my experience w CIO, my DD1 Liz handled it for me. I guess young children are quite honest and blunt as my dd was. This was before we had Maggie so she was about 3- 31/2

There was a baby at our house who was less than a month old and wailing in his carseat for about 30 seconds. Liz went over to the Mom and said- "Mrs SMith, Noah is crying."
Mrs Smith- "I know, he will be fine"
Liz- "but he is crying"
Mrs Smith- "Yes but he will stop, so we need to ignore it or leave him alone."
Liz" Why dont you pick up your baby? Your baby is saying something and needs to be picked up"

So, thankfully this mom picked the baby up within a minute because my dd told her off. After she left, DD was all over me and almost crying that someone left their baby and forgot them according to her. She never did like that mother after that!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amys1st* 
Actaully in my experience w CIO, my DD1 Liz handled it for me. I guess young children are quite honest and blunt as my dd was. This was before we had Maggie so she was about 3- 31/2

There was a baby at our house who was less than a month old and wailing in his carseat for about 30 seconds. Liz went over to the Mom and said- "Mrs SMith, Noah is crying."
Mrs Smith- "I know, he will be fine"
Liz- "but he is crying"
Mrs Smith- "Yes but he will stop, so we need to ignore it or leave him alone."
Liz" Why dont you pick up your baby? Your baby is saying something and needs to be picked up"

So, thankfully this mom picked the baby up within a minute because my dd told her off. After she left, DD was all over me and almost crying that someone left their baby and forgot them according to her. She never did like that mother after that!

That is so cool! Kudos to your dd!


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## Amys1st (Mar 18, 2003)

Its funny, reading all these stories brings me back to that time when my girls were babies. With Liz, we would not put her down- well for me, I nursed her when she wanted so that would be all day sometimes. And DH would always want to hold her or another relative or friend would.

I could remember reading some of the mainstream books saying "you must not pick them up too much or put them down blah blah blah"
Fast forward a few months at whole foods, we saw Mothering mag, and also discovered Dr Sears. We didnt know the way we parented had a name.

Once when Maggie cried as a baby, Liz said right away- Mommy, pick her up!!!


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