# Moms of Many Gentle Discipline Support Thread



## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

This thread is *support-only* and is for *mothers with large families*. Please keep the Gentle Discipline Guidelines in mind when posting.
/disclaimer

So, now that I have four little ones, eight and under, I'm finding some new struggles on the gentle discipline front. As I wrote in our FYT tribe, when I'm nursing a very fussy baby and Michael is trying to kill Katie Grace upstairs and Nicholas is lobbing egg shakers in my general direction, it's hard to triage whose needs come first. It's hard not to yell. It's hard not to just send everyone to their separate quarters until I can figure out how to deal with them.

Also, I have a low threshold for chaos (which begs the question, why do we have so many children,







) and it's really damaging to my mental health to just let wildness rule. I can't do it.

Anyway, I would love to hear from other mamas of many. How is GD working for you? What are your struggles? What are your successes?


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

I am going through this too. i also have a low threshold for chaos and noise (and yet I am having my fourth child! and often we're with my friend and her two boys as well). I have a hard time not yelling and I usually must send them off to separate areas for some peace to figure things out. Add to it, my eldest is diagnosed Bipolar and that just adds a whole other dimension to GD and handling all the boys at once!!!


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

OK, I'm here!









I rarely come to this forum (since I have limited time and this just has not been a stop for me). Besides, for me, discipline has always been a personal matter best saved for DH and myself.

But I would love to see suggestions that people have for GD with large families. Since the dinamics are so different than with small families with small children. I know GD can work, but there has to be different methods.


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

I'm here to -- and I am dealing with everything that has already been posted. Chaos, noise, low threshhold, who to deal with first, end up yelling to get them to all be quiet - for at least a moment. But I can't even figure out how to send them to different places in the house - my DS 5 will do it -- but the 2.5 year old triplets - no way - they won't stay in any designated place -- and I turn the struggle away from whatever it was - and now its a struggle to keep them separated. HELPPPP??

I was sooo GD with DS #1 when it was just him. I swear. But most days - I end up defeated and feeling like a menace to GD . ...

OK - and I've had other particular struggles with DS 1 that I posted about in multipes and childhood years - but got very little response to -- I am thinking this is the forum where I'll get some help on that topic too. Please take a look at my next post --- pullleaaaase.


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

I am so hoping someone can help me with this.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=720723

I'd be so relieved to just hear someone say BTDT at this point!

Its probably no mystery 'why' DS is doing this stuff -- as everyone says - "it must be so hard for him to deal with triplet siblings". Agreed. But they aren't going away . .. .. and we give him every available minute of free time for 1-1 that is possible to the absolute exclusion of the triplets 1-1 time, mommy time, daddy time, and mommy and daddy time . . . so I am running short on patience . . . and really wanting some practical, step-by-step, here is how you handle it when DS does X kind of advice.

THANKS!


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

I am seriously loosing it--some days, especially when it is hot it is like I'm Mrs. Hyde!







:

I have three children--is that considered "many?"

My oldest boy is 6. He talks nonstop, and it is about stuff that I have to listen to, and sometimes I just want to think or hear the program on the radio ... and I crack up a bit...

If the baby is crying I can't take the noise at all.... I'll have to continue posting later as I am almost out of battery juice... but I look forward to this thread!


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## MommyMichele (May 2, 2006)

I'm still learning how to parent three and often feel like I have more than I can handle. I sometimes start to fantasize about how life would have been if we'd only had one, so I'd never have to deal with sibling conflicts, but I quickly stop myself, feeling so sad imagining my second two not existing!

I'm muddling forward, trying to figure things out, counting on it getting easier as the kids get older. It does, right?


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

I only have three, too. They're just young, and that's the major struggle. Trying to deal with discipline issues and still help them with all their bodily needs. It just gets kind of tedious sometimes. And tiring.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Here too!

Tripmom, I was thinking about your situation on the way over here, and the way I see it you've got two issues.
1) In the tripping incident, before you could even start talking you had to find a way of getting the noise level down enough that you could be heard. Would moving to a different room with the two participants be a possibility?
2) You then had to comfort the trippee quickly enough that you could deal with the tripper
3) You then had to remind the tripper that his brother/sister was really hurt and scared by the thing that he had done, and it's really NOT cool to trip your brother over, even if his nose does do that cool thing when it spurts blood when he fell on the floor. Aim for a degree of recognition for what he's done.
4) THEN find time to reconnect with the tripper later on and give him a reward (aka some special mummy time) for doing the right thing and staying out of trouble so you're available to talk to him and vice versa.

That's what works in our house, anyhow, but at the moment we're just at three and growing. Stage 1 (can't hear myself think) is the biggie, though- if you can figure out that one it's standard GD tactics.

How does everyone else feel about the noise levels in their home? At the moment I think we've got it about right but dd is loud, loud, loud







Screaming, shrieking, shouting- she's not a girl for moderation.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TripMom* 
I am so hoping someone can help me with this.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=720723

I'd be so relieved to just hear someone say BTDT at this point!

THANKS!

HI trip mom, I have a lot of the same kinds of stuff go on with my oldest boy. He doesn't deal well with not having 'space.' usually he is really good with his little brother (3) but some days he just needs to be alone--

We're making him a kind of 'alone' thoughtful spot, so he can get away... and not send his little brother out of their room in various 'creatively' destructive ways. When ds was five learning something that could challenge him physically (yoga, tai chi , capoera, challenging monkey bars at an elementary school) made him a little less likely to explore his new-found strength in his mighty little body on his little brother.

Sometimes he is just really, really intense -- and I am answering all these geographic/scientific/philosophical/engineering questions while feeding/diapering play with a 7month-old and reading, chasing, cleaning syrup off of a 3 year old.


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## kayjayjay (Jul 15, 2003)

I'm nak as usual, just subbing. I have 4 DDs ages 11, 6, 3, and 6mos.

My biggest GD issue is currently my 3yo. She's in a phase where she doesn't make eye contact and runs away when I say please come here.







: Not sure what to do with her, but I definitely can't take her anywhere. So hard to deal with when I'm always holding the baby,...


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I wonder how much discipline issues and family management issues overlap? For me, it seems like they intercept all the time. When I'm in a good routine and we have a daily rhythm and I have charts (there's my OCD again, LOL!) and labels and loose schedules, things go great. When we try to wing it, it all goes to hell in a handbasket. Like today.


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

TripMom,

I have to second the suggestion to put your child in martial arts - whole heartedly! When we did that with my seven year old son, there was a huge change.

It was something for him, but also, his Tae Kwon Do teacher was very good at speaking to the kids about their responsibilities. They were not allowed to be in fights or bully. They were not to use their skills for anything other than the classes and tournaments.

They learned PRIDE in themselves and respect for themselves. That was HUGE. There was nothing we were doing that equalled that! Respect for others came with it all.

We noticed my son was less apt to physically take it out on his siblings.

ALSO, consistency with discipline is a must, parents MUST be on the same level, SLEEP schedules and feeding schedules are also a must have.

I wish you tons of luck! This is a hard age and martial arts isn't always cheap, but it was SO WORTH IT, I cannot imagine life without us putting him in TKD years ago.

We really need to do so again, but now I have three old enough for activities, so it's hard to pay for whereas just one was easier.


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## mommajb (Mar 4, 2005)

I'm here. I have consider whether or not I have some real sensory issues because the noise is driving me crazy!!

I feel like I can handle the load when things go moderately well but once it begins to deviate I had started yelling. To avoid that I have been separating them or completely disengaging myself which isn't doing any long term good. They all talk and sing all the time. They have learned not to play the piano at nap time.

I can't think. I can't sleep. I can't take the noise. I can't make a coherent post so I'll stop now. Somebody tell me that adding a 5th child will make the toddler grow up a bit and suddenly.


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## mommaduck (Sep 13, 2005)

Oh my goodness! I love you for starting this thread. I'll be subbing and reading through when all my littles are in bed. BTW, I have 6 between 1 and 11.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

My latest GD issue:

My kids are 6, 3, 1 1/2 and 12 days and bedtime is making me crazy. My second youngest still wants me to lay down with/nurse him at bedtime but #4 seems to be cluster feeding in the evenings and doesn't want to detach. The oldest two have trouble settling down and them making noise doesn't help ds2 fall asleep.

What do you do at bedtime with a bunch of kids?


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
My latest GD issue:

My kids are 6, 3, 1 1/2 and 12 days and bedtime is making me crazy. My second youngest still wants me to lay down with/nurse him at bedtime but #4 seems to be cluster feeding in the evenings and doesn't want to detach. The oldest two have trouble settling down and them making noise doesn't help ds2 fall asleep.

What do you do at bedtime with a bunch of kids?

Pour yourself a stiff drink?

Hide out in the bathroom?

Clearly, I have no advice, but I feel ya!


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
I wonder how much discipline issues and family management issues overlap? For me, it seems like they intercept all the time. When I'm in a good routine and we have a daily rhythm and I have charts (there's my OCD again, LOL!) and labels and loose schedules, things go great. When we try to wing it, it all goes to hell in a handbasket. Like today.









What kind of charts do you have? I'm trying to institute a loose schedule, and it has been going pretty well. I'd like to have some organization in the housecleaning area, though, where they can see what we chores we have for the day. I'd love some creative ideas!


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
What kind of charts do you have? I'm trying to institute a loose schedule, and it has been going pretty well. I'd like to have some organization in the housecleaning area, though, where they can see what we chores we have for the day. I'd love some creative ideas!

Right now, I have three.

First, I have a chore chart for me. It lists a room to work on each day (it works out perfectly. We really need a bigger house though







) as well as what laundry I do that day (dipes, darks, whites, etc)

Second, I have a kitchen helper chart for the kids. I have three kids who are old enough to help, and each day I have a junior chef (helps cook, brings me stuff from the fridge or pantry, takes bowls of food to the table), a host/hostess (sets the table, calls everyone, prays if Daddy isn't there or doesn't want to), and clean-up crew (clears serving dishes--everyone clears their own plates--and takes out the recycling, and the older ones help dry and put things away as well. It's purely voluntary, but they really like doing it, for the most part.

Finally, I made a menu chart that's very general. So for breakfast, Monday is eggs, Tuesday muffins, Wednesday granola, etc. Dinners might be meat Sunday, soup or stew Monday, meatless on Tuesday. I have lunches and 2 snacks for each day too. Then I just plug in meals and snacks when I do the menu.

Not discipline exactly, but it helps maintain order on my part, which seems to help everything run smoothly.


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## amis2girls (Mar 2, 2005)

: definately could use some camaraderie


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Not discipline exactly, but it helps maintain order on my part, which seems to help everything run smoothly.

Well sure it is! It's the best kind, planning ahead to keep the troubles from cropping up.

I love your kitchen chart, I'm going to adopt that. I do meal plans every other week, and those weeks everything is easier. I need to be more consistent about them.

I also love your house cleaning chart. I've been meaning to do one of those for a long time, too. I read once about a method where you put a chore you need to do every month on an index card, and then pick one every day and do it. My house could stand to have that method of cleaning!


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
Pour yourself a stiff drink?

Hide out in the bathroom?

Clearly, I have no advice, but I feel ya!

Hands down the most difficult part of the day when my triplets were newborns and DS was 2.5 . . .. . . everything collided at dinner/bath/bedtime . . . and it was soo hard! And I totally could NOT do it by myself, either . . . DH had to be home . . . or someone had to help me. .. .

No tips, sorry! Just the glimmer of hope that it does get better when the youngest are older?


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Here too!

Tripmom, I was thinking about your situation on the way over here, and the way I see it you've got two issues.
1) In the tripping incident, before you could even start talking you had to find a way of getting the noise level down enough that you could be heard. Would moving to a different room with the two participants be a possibility?
2) You then had to comfort the trippee quickly enough that you could deal with the tripper
3) You then had to remind the tripper that his brother/sister was really hurt and scared by the thing that he had done, and it's really NOT cool to trip your brother over, even if his nose does do that cool thing when it spurts blood when he fell on the floor. Aim for a degree of recognition for what he's done.
4) THEN find time to reconnect with the tripper later on and give him a reward (aka some special mummy time) for doing the right thing and staying out of trouble so you're available to talk to him and vice versa.

That's what works in our house, anyhow, but at the moment we're just at three and growing. Stage 1 (can't hear myself think) is the biggie, though- if you can figure out that one it's standard GD tactics.

How does everyone else feel about the noise levels in their home? At the moment I think we've got it about right but dd is loud, loud, loud







Screaming, shrieking, shouting- she's not a girl for moderation.

You know - I'm really freaked out about how mean DS1 will be to the triplets unprovoked. Am I making too much out of it? The stuff I see him do really upsets me . . . . maybe its more normal than I think? Dunno . . . it just seems like I should be doing something more when he is so mean to the kids?


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## crittersmom (Mar 24, 2005)

Hope to be back later...I feel like my house is the loudest in the neighborhood.


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
My latest GD issue:

My kids are 6, 3, 1 1/2 and 12 days and bedtime is making me crazy. My second youngest still wants me to lay down with/nurse him at bedtime but #4 seems to be cluster feeding in the evenings and doesn't want to detach. The oldest two have trouble settling down and them making noise doesn't help ds2 fall asleep.

What do you do at bedtime with a bunch of kids?


TOUGH age but I remember at that point we kept a really strict night time schedule that started with dinner time. Dinner, baths, brushing teeth, reading, bed time, etc...

Do you have a partner that's good at helping out and is home every night? That makes a big difference. Also, I wasn't breastfeeding more than one at a time ever, so I know life must be that much more chaotic to you. But if you keep up the consistency and get help, it should turn things around.


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

Lack of family management does tend to help flare up the discipline probs for us too. I get going with my charts and schedules and the kids actually love it, but then I FAIL MISERABLY every time!


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## kayjayjay (Jul 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GinaRae* 
Lack of family management does tend to help flare up the discipline probs for us too. I get going with my charts and schedules and the kids actually love it, but then I FAIL MISERABLY every time!









:

I'm soo disorganized these days, I'm just doing damage control most of the time and I know that affects how our days go.


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## TattooedMama (Aug 31, 2005)

I'm joining.... 3 boys, and some days it feels like they all have 2 heads and 8 sticky arms...
back later,
Jessica


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

Lack of organization leads to chaos. So me having to move TWO households (one being ours) in a period of three weeks is driving me NUTS!







:

We just finished moving my mom's house yesterday. Now we are back to packing our house and then moving next weekend for us! UUUUHHHHGGGG!

Talk about chaos! GD is SO difficult when you are totally stressed out yourself!

Boy do I wish I could be in next month already!


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## MamabearTo4 (May 31, 2006)

I fit nicely here...

I have four - 11, 4, 3 and 1. The issue in my big house is that everyone wants to be heard all the time. If someone needs anothers attention, and the 'another' happens to be on the third floor, the yelling starts. If the 3yo gets her feelings hurt and starts to cry...loudly...the instigator needs to make his point...even more loudly...which leads to me trying to talk over them both to get some calm.







:

I try really hard to keep peace around here - the different ages/toys/ideas/committments, etc. have me overwhelmed. I'm HSing my 6th grader this fall, considering sending the youngers to preschool for a few hrs. a day a couple of days a week. How will I ever keep it together well enough to guide my oldest through 6th grade?







:

When I first saw the mention of a chart, I thought it was brilliant, but I thought it was to chart the victories, the meltdowns, the quirks to find some kind of pattern in the bumpy road to chaos. Don't get me wrong - my life is a blast, and I'm considering a 5th babe, but I have to get a handle on this somehow! I'll let you know what comes of my charting...


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crittersmom* 
I feel like my house is the loudest in the neighborhood.









This is us too. I have four children, ages 2 1/2, 10, 12, and 14. It gets loud here.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TripMom* 
You know - I'm really freaked out about how mean DS1 will be to the triplets unprovoked. Am I making too much out of it? The stuff I see him do really upsets me . . . . maybe its more normal than I think? Dunno . . . it just seems like I should be doing something more when he is so mean to the kids?

I think you are! I don't mean to be snarky, but I get freaked out too, so I know what you mean. But I don't think it helps, and I wouldn't worry that he's a psychopath. He's just a kid! Kids have to experiment with the dark side. And I would really be surprised if your younger ones weren't somehow contributing to the dynamic. I know they seem like they're being totally victimized, but even by being victimized, they're encouraging him.

Do they stick up to him? Can they say, "Don't push me!" or "Hey, no hitting!"


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

I've been introduced to the wonders of flower essences and love it. Rescue Remedy is nice and there are others specific for different children and parental needs I'll be looking into.

A couple of sprays of Bach's Rescue Remedy in the mouth really helps adjust my attitude and helps the kids' too. I don't like that it does have some alcohol taste, and I have heard there are creams as well, but the spray is working.


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## kayjayjay (Jul 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamabearTo4* 
I'm HSing my 6th grader this fall, considering sending the youngers to preschool for a few hrs. a day a couple of days a week. How will I ever keep it together well enough to guide my oldest through 6th grade?







:

Our kids are similar ages, I'm hsing a 6th grader as well. Has your DC been in school before? That might make a difference in how you should approach things. My oldest is pretty self-motivated and we get by with a pretty unstructured approach. My 6yo is starting 1st grade and so she really requires more of my one-on-one attention. HSing is so much fun, good luck!


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## momuveight2B (Mar 17, 2006)

I don't feel like posting a big answer right now mostly cause I am under stress and almost 38 weeks pregnant with #8. That is a plea for sympathy, OK.

GD is a process. My oldest child is 27 and I have learned and learned and learned over the years. Almost nothing is the same now as when I started. Honestly it is a miracle that she lived through my ignorance and has turned out to be a decent human being. The only things that haven't changed dramatically for me is breastfeeding, co-sleeping, cloth diapering and staying at home. I just do these things longer and am more tolerant of the issues that come from being a full time 24/7 parent who co-sleeps, tandem nurses and washes lots of laundry every day and hangs it all out to dry. I can thank my mom who did all these things out of absolute necessity for passing along these skills. Without these basics and the role modeling it would have been much harder.

OK, hope I didn't go off topic there because to me it is a total package of values, beliefs and how I approach parenting and that impact on the world around me.

You don't even want to know all the mistakes I have made over the years. There are times I lay awake at night ashamed of the things I have done with my kids but then as I said it is a process, a journey not a destination. As I learned better from other moms I did better. So where ever you are in this process right now give yourself a HUGE pat on the back because just that you are aware of the need to GD is more than half way there.

The years go by quick and these littles ones are so precious. The older I get the more I know what the older women mean when they tell us to cherish every moment because it won't last long. It doesn't. So on really hard days I remember this and when I have a child that is so unlovable at the moment I reach out and put them on my lap and not across it. I have learned to offer a hug and not a timeout that only really addresses my own frustration. That reconnection with our children is so powerful and begins the day they are born when we put them to our breast.

We always have control of the home atmosphere. As moms we can go nuts or we can turn on silly music and make a game of cleanup. We choose the response that continues the trust and respect in the relationship.

So often when I was young I felt out of control and overwhelmed because I felt the kids were running me and the house. I wanted to pull my hair out and would lock myself in the bathroom in hopes of solitude. Not there because they would even slip notes under the door while the younger ones banged and cried for mommy. I haven't been to the bathroom alone in 27 years, well maybe postpartum in the hospital. It takes a lot to know that you are in charge and have the power to set the mood each day and even when it has fallen apart you can start over.

OK, that is all for now. Just keep working at GD and never give up. It really does work in the long run to have a peaceful family. These little people will one day be ruling our country, taking care of us in our old age and raising our grandchildren. We want the best outcome so it is always a worthy goal to work hard at it each day.


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
I think you are! I don't mean to be snarky, but I get freaked out too, so I know what you mean. But I don't think it helps, and I wouldn't worry that he's a psychopath. He's just a kid! Kids have to experiment with the dark side. And I would really be surprised if your younger ones weren't somehow contributing to the dynamic. I know they seem like they're being totally victimized, but even by being victimized, they're encouraging him.

Do they stick up to him? Can they say, "Don't push me!" or "Hey, no hitting!"

OK - thanks for that. I really need a reality check on this -- and I guess I am really suprised that there aren't more MoMany piling on saying 'totally normal' - that would really make me feel more at ease if I knew most big families deal with this??

Thanks for the idea to focus on what the little ones can do when DS is mean -- since I'm not having much luck focusing on DS negative action.


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## mama in the forest (Apr 17, 2006)

Quote:

The years go by quick and these littles ones are so precious. The older I get the more I know what the older women mean when they tell us to cherish every moment because it won't last long. It doesn't. So on really hard days I remember this and when I have a child that is so unlovable at the moment I reach out and put them on my lap and not across it
I hear you loud & clear. It's so true. My 19 year old is so big now! I can't believe I've been at this for 20 years! I don't even know where the time has gone.

I have 6 kids and have never charted or done anything like that. We unschool, and I wouldn't say that I 'wing' anything...but my family works best when we have a lot of flexibility. I need a lot of freedom in my life, and I have enough obligations so I don't want a chart looming over my head.







Plus, I've personally found it more difficult to keep my cool & be gentle with the kids when I've set goals that are too high for us to maintain. Which is any time I've set any kind of cleaning goal.









What I do is take each day & see what needs cleaning. We do triage in the main living spaces, and then after that I try to have us do a more in-depth cleaning of one room. Every kid is expected to help to their capability. I try to take into account the things they naturally enjoy...for example, my son LOVES to cook, so he will do that excitedly...one of my daughters loves to dust & vaccum, so who am I to stop her?







:


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I have four, but I am out of the baby stage. My youngest is 8. I take care of my sister's two yr old several times a week, so it's a full house of 5 kids (although my oldest does have a summer job). Add in friends, and our animals, well it's busy. I don't know how would get along without my 8, 13, & 15 yr olds who help entertain the two yr old.

As for loud, we have two drum sets, and many guitars, plus a piano. Yeah, it gets loud.









I am very relaxed, so I could not get it together to ever do a chore chart, or anything, but we are have been AP/ GD since day one. I wouldn't say these philosophies 'always work'...they aren't aren't about "Child does A, so you do B", after all. I think of respectful parenting as how we react to normal childhood behaviors. We're doing OK. The kids are pretty gentle people. Which isn't to say they don't argue .

But life is much easier when you don't have to carry multiple children to the car, dress, and change multiple diapers etc.


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## MamabearTo4 (May 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama in the forest* 
I've personally found it more difficult to keep my cool & be gentle with the kids when I've set goals that are too high for us to maintain.

I agree with your post and wanted to comment on this part...I'm hoping that setting smaller goals with our 'charting', be it mental or written, will help me realize that I'm not doing so poorly, after all!







Any boost or peep of encouragement during the GD day goes a long way for me.

All of you mamas are so wise! In the end, we all have the same goal... It's interesting to hear about the different paths we can take to find something that works for our families.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momuveight2B* 

OK, that is all for now. Just keep working at GD and never give up. It really does work in the long run to have a peaceful family. These little people will one day be ruling our country, taking care of us in our old age and raising our grandchildren. We want the best outcome so it is always a worthy goal to work hard at it each day.









I thought this was lovely. I've felt so overwhelmed lately, and I'm realizing that life is a series of new beginnings, you know? For me at least it seems as if I am constant starting over. And sometimes it's hard to extend enough grace to myself to do that. And when I'm not extending grace to myself, I have a difficult time extending it to my children as well. Lately my "mantra" has really been the bible verse "Create in me a clean heart, o God, and renew a right spirit within me." And I love that it's all about God and me, not about what my kids are doing wrong, or how they're screwing up, or even how I'm screwing up. Just about stopping, and starting fresh. Anyway, that's where I'm at lately.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

I'm not a mama of a large family, but I'm the oldest sibling of one.









Annettemarie, I just wanted to tell you that I absolutely love your posts in just about any thread I can remember, and also that you totally remind me of my mother (in as much tone as a person can convey on a message board







).

Anyway, while there was chaos in my home growing up, and I remember my mother looking completely undone at times, the thing that has always stayed with me (and stayed my temper at the worst of times) was the absolute love that my mother had for us.

Even when she locked herself in the bathroom for a minute (or ten







).

I hope this didn't sound too silly. I just wanted to tell you (and the other mamas) that I grew up in a large family and look back on my childhood with fondness and love.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

One thing I was reminded of reading this thread is how mothers of many practice 'crowd management'.







Kind of how preschool teachers manage 9 little 3-4 yr olds in a class (that's the ratio is MA- 9/1). They set up stations. A craft station, a cozy reading station, an audio books station with headphones, a block/play are etc. If kids are engaged, you can focus time on a couple of kids at once, and then roam around the room, doing what you need to do. Trying to get one group of kids to all do one thing-- diaster. lol

I started looking around my house, and even though my kids are older, it's still kind of that way. There is a play kitchen and blocks area, with a little table and chairs for the toddler (my sister's child is here many days a week, and in fact slept with me until mindnight last night because his parents went to a wedding). There is an art cabinet near the ktichen table, there are two places for CD players for audio books. We are hsers, and sometimes I need the toddler to be engaged while I read to the older kids, or help my 8 yr old with something. Yesterday, my 8 yr old wanted to finish a chapter books so I set the toddler up with some blocks and playmobil animals a few feet away. We were able to finish the book. Then the 3 of us had a snack, bath, and went to bed. OK, I did snuggle the 3 of us in with FInding Nemo (fast forwarding the dead mother part), as I wanted my nephew to not think about nursing. I know not everyone would use a video that way, but we did/do.









The thing that stands out in my mind is that now I get sleep, so everythign is a bit easier. In the old days I did not sleep much, and fantasized about running off to a hotel just for the night. Lack of sleep makes everything more difficult. All I can think so say to moms of littles is to take it slow. Try to have downtime in a day where you lower the lights and maybe lie down on blanket on the floor, with some soft music, or, if you aren't opposed to it, a calming video (we liked Mary Poppins) in the middle of the day.

And food-- have lots of high protein food availabe in easy -to- eat, non- messy forms. Cheese and apple slices & such. Hard boiled eggs. We used to have 'tea' at about 3 or 4, so we could try to get through the later part of the afternoon without meltdowns. But go slow, do less, chill more, share playdates with like-minded friends & family. I don't see how we can get through otherwise.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Taking notes from y'all







:


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## AngieB (Oct 25, 2003)

Thank you for this thread, I need it soooo much!


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## MommyMichele (May 2, 2006)

I too appreciate all the posts from the moms with children older than mine. It helps a lot to get a glimpse of the future.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoesmummy* 

Annettemarie, I just wanted to tell you that I absolutely love your posts in just about any thread I can remember, and also that you totally remind me of my mother (in as much tone as a person can convey on a message board







).

Aw, thanks. That made me tear up a little.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
The thing that stands out in my mind is that now I get sleep, so everythign is a bit easier.

Yeah! That's the big problem for me right now. It hadn't been too bad, just one or two wakings for the older kids and three to four for the youngest. And as long as they're brief, I can roll with it. But for the past week ds2 has been waking up and being awake for two to three hours. He's not sad, he won't nurse, but he does make lots of noise, kick and wiggle like crazy, and poop. So I have to at least get up to change him, and he keeps me awake too. It's driving me crazy!


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

It is so great to hear from a mama who has made it through to what I affectionately refer to in my own mind as The Other Side.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
One thing I was reminded of reading this thread is how mothers of many practice 'crowd management'.







Kind of how preschool teachers manage 9 little 3-4 yr olds in a class (that's the ratio is MA- 9/1). They set up stations. A craft station, a cozy reading station, an audio books station with headphones, a block/play are etc. If kids are engaged, you can focus time on a couple of kids at once, and then roam around the room, doing what you need to do. Trying to get one group of kids to all do one thing-- diaster. lol

I started looking around my house, and even though my kids are older, it's still kind of that way. There is a play kitchen and blocks area, with a little table and chairs for the toddler (my sister's child is here many days a week, and in fact slept with me until mindnight last night because his parents went to a wedding). There is an art cabinet near the ktichen table, there are two places for CD players for audio books. We are hsers, and sometimes I need the toddler to be engaged while I read to the older kids, or help my 8 yr old with something. Yesterday, my 8 yr old wanted to finish a chapter books so I set the toddler up with some blocks and playmobil animals a few feet away. We were able to finish the book. Then the 3 of us had a snack, bath, and went to bed. OK, I did snuggle the 3 of us in with FInding Nemo (fast forwarding the dead mother part), as I wanted my nephew to not think about nursing. I know not everyone would use a video that way, but we did/do.









You know, I used to be a great preschool teacher. Seriously, I rocked, if I do say so myself. So it makes me particularly sad when I feel like I'm just not doing it with my own. But I am going to think about this and see if I can reapply some of my early childhood training to our house.

Quote:

The thing that stands out in my mind is that now I get sleep, so everythign is a bit easier. In the old days I did not sleep much, and fantasized about running off to a hotel just for the night. Lack of sleep makes everything more difficult. All I can think so say to moms of littles is to take it slow. Try to have downtime in a day where you lower the lights and maybe lie down on blanket on the floor, with some soft music, or, if you aren't opposed to it, a calming video (we liked Mary Poppins) in the middle of the day.
This is another area I've let go. With my first two, we had "quiet time" for an hour every day. I think I need to reinstate it, even if it means letting my no-television ideals go.

Quote:

And food-- have lots of high protein food availabe in easy -to- eat, non- messy forms. Cheese and apple slices & such. Hard boiled eggs. We used to have 'tea' at about 3 or 4, so we could try to get through the later part of the afternoon without meltdowns.
I've been trying to do this, and you're right, it does make a difference. However, when I let them help themselves to food we end up with a lot of waste. Besides being ethically opposed to wasting food, we just can't afford it. Any suggestions for managing this?


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

As a mom with 5 kidlets 6 and under, I am so there with all of you! It can be frustrating and infuriatingly hard!

Sometimes I just don't know whether to pull my hair out at the roots, walk away and let it play out or just stand there with a stupefied look on my face during the chaos that ensues in this household at times...

I do my best but sometimes I slip. I find my slip ups are great opportunities to teach my kids that even parents\adults aren't always right and can\do apologize too. It shows that we have more in common than we think, we are both learning to cohabitate with each other and apologizing is a life skill that we all are still learning to do (ie: recognizing when we did something to hurt someone else, and realizing that we need\want to make it right again which equates to knowing when and how to apologize for something we did to hurt someone's feelings).

It shows my kidlets that I am human too and that parents are not this all encompassing perfect authoritative figure that know it all just because we are the parent\adult. It, literally, puts us at the same level where we should be.

This is my aspiring arsenal of GD tools:

- 123 Magic (explain the inappropriate behavior, the consequence, then that's 1, that's 2, okay it's time for a time out with me on the couch, let's take a break)
- Parent present time outs (sit on the couch with me and let's take a break for 5 minutes)
- Natural consequences to actions (run through the house, you can hurt yourself)
- Redirect and distract (that's hot, here's your favie blankie\toy\book)
- What I call "get off your butt parenting". Go to them, take them out of the situation, explain on their level and redirect\distract.
- Rewards for chores done * (no flames or debate please, what works for us doesn't work for everyone - I appreciate it - thank you)

*This is used for chores because my kids are motivated with reward systems. We never, ever use time with us as a reward, that is something they get regardless of what they do. That's not a luxury it's a right in our eyes. What I do is I have a big jar of colored marbles and then three jars with their names on it. They earn so many marbles for certain chores done and then at the end of the week cash them in for something they want like a dvd they wanted, a toy they saw and wanted. It's kind of like an allowance without the money. They get to change the cash in "prizes" at the end of two weeks time.

- Visual rules like flash cards for making their bed, or brushing their teeth, putting their dishes in the sink, ect. They got to decorate their rule cards that we put up on the wall for them.

- "I" statements such as "I don't like being hit, please stop...thank you". Rather than blame the person who is behaving badly, we use "I" statements to express dislike of something without blaming the person and ask for it to stop.


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## Fairy4tmama (Sep 3, 2003)

I don't have time to post or read at the moment but I can't wait to glean some new tactics! I only have 3 of my own but M-F I have six children under the age of 4







: half of whom are in dipers







:







:







:
Hey AM







:


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## TattooedMama (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
But life is much easier when you don't have to carry multiple children to the car, dress, and change multiple diapers etc.

This is the WORST. PART. OF MY DAY. EVER.

I used to send the oldest 2 out to sit buckled in the van (in the driveway) while I got the baby in the carseat or gathered the last things like diaper bag, etc...
For a while it seemed to keep them from fighting, or running away down the street, but that presents it's own unique set of problems too...

I ALWAYS seem to end up yelling at them if we are trying to leave the house. And no, staying home is NOT AN OPTION. I hate that actually on other threads where moms of firstborns or onlies innocently proclaim "Well can't you just stay home? Or reschedule your day around naptime?"







:
Ummmm...... NO! Not always, if you have more than one child or other responsibilities. I think that issue right there is unique to Gentle Disciplining larger families. I know that for me my biggest issue I feel I work on all time is "triaging everyone's needs." Who comes first? The baby? The spirited 2.5 y/o? The 8 year old that gets pushed aside a lot so I can put out the fires the other 2 started? (figuratively, not literally... not yet.







The day might come though with my middle child, God help us.)
One of my other issues is actually how to help my oldest child understand the concept of GD.
He tries to intervene, stand up for himself when his little brother is being aggressive, help Mom out, etc... but he is only 8! He doesn't understand the concepts of normal child development. psychology, GD. Heck my DP is just barely starting to understand those concepts.
I have tried to institute the "Walk Away." As in, "Walk away and get Mom if your little brother is being rough and hurting you." "Walk away and get Mom if your brother hopped the baby gate into your room and is wrecking your Lego creations." He just can't deal with it all appropriately on his own, yet he keeps trying and it ends badly with tears and sceaming and crying from both of them sometimes.
Thanks to everyone that has posted. You make me feel better.








I know my DP looks at me and our household some days and think I am PSYCHOTIC for wanting one more child (4 total). Some days I think so too. I was SOOOOO GD with just my oldest and some days I seem to get increasingly LESS so.








Thanks for the support,
Jessica


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Food question thoughts.

You put out the food if waste is a problem. I do like the idea of children helping themselves etc. Yet sometimes with many children that means constant mess and dripping yogurt bowls all day long. When we did tea, it was something I put together quickly. Small chunks of cheese, sliced fruit, sippy or small cups of water etc. Start with one apple, sliced, and a small amount of cheese for each child, and add from there. Some two yr olds can eat an entire apple, and some take one bite and are done etc. If you slice one apple, you can even eat some and share with all. If the children want more, slice another. (I love those apple core thingies that- zip -slice an apple into a bunch of wedges.) If you are doing crackers, just put out a few and add if children want more. And as for yogurt cups? No. I buy the large yogurt and put into bowls. That way there isn't bacteria swirling around the 3/4 full little cup when a child takes two bites and is done.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

natensarah,

I've taken your stiff drink advice literally. I went out and bought a 6-pack of Mike's Hard Lemonade (now that I'm not pg, woo hoo!). In the time that it takes me to finish one, the older two have quit yapping and fallen asleep. I've only tried it once, but that's my plan until this pack is gone. At bedtime, I'm going to ignore them (unless someone's crying), not worry about the talking and try to let them fall asleep without me going in there and telling them to be quiet every five minutes. I will leave them alone until I have a drink, or bowl of ice cream, and they will go to bed (I hope).


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Two of mine are older (14 and 10) and although more responsible they can eat a lot of food if they just graze! My youngest doesn't snack (yet) but dd1 (4yo) is a snacker.

One thing I do in the holidays is make a box of things in the fridge or stuff in a tin on the counter which they can eat during the day. This works for my boys and it stops them eating what I was going to put on the pizza/mix with a salad/feed the whole family on that night









For my dd, she gets things in small portions - half an apple in slices, a few apricots in a bowl, a cracker, one muffin, a gloop of yoghurt in a plastic drinking cup etc and she HAS to eat it at the table. Often I offer her a drink when she is asking for food and she will have that and not ask for anything to eat; I think she just finds it easier to say hungry than thirsty.

We do sit and eat a family meal every evening but I have to remember to feed them at lunchtime even after all these years as I don't feel hungry myself at midday. On the days when we do have a substantial lunch the snacking is obviously less and I really need to plan for it better.

What doesn't change is the 3-4pm grumps which are only ovecome by everyone being in their own space and doing something like eating or reading







Now that there are more of us I realise that a good part of my day is spent in thinking about, shopping for, eating or preparing food - especially as dd2 is still an avid breastfeeder. Making snacks in advance and not complaining about them all being eaten in a day has eased my anxiety about where the food was going!

Ds1 made me laugh the other day because he told me that maybe we should ration the cookies or muffins because they all disappeared very quickly after they were cooked. When I suggested that he eat only 2 muffins the next day he said 'Only 2! They're too tasty to just have 2!'


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
natensarah,

I've taken your stiff drink advice literally. I went out and bought a 6-pack of Mike's Hard Lemonade (now that I'm not pg, woo hoo!). In the time that it takes me to finish one, the older two have quit yapping and fallen asleep. I've only tried it once, but that's my plan until this pack is gone. At bedtime, I'm going to ignore them (unless someone's crying), not worry about the talking and try to let them fall asleep without me going in there and telling them to be quiet every five minutes. I will leave them alone until I have a drink, or bowl of ice cream, and they will go to bed (I hope).









It's nearly 6pm here, and I just poured myself a little white wine as the grill heats up. It doesn't really get that much easier as they get older (the issues are different, but not 'easier'). What happens is you get less worried that everything is a life and death situation (Teens who drive is not the same worry, fi, as whether the 4 yr old ate half a cup cake at a friend's house that day). And a little Mike's or a sip of wine can't hurt...


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

I just read back further and saw your post Tripmom.

I will say that my children who are GD'd AP'd and loved respectfully can be mean to each other.

Our boys have fought and done horrible things to each other but they are still very close and would defend each other to the last breath if need be. When they were yongr I was upset by the way they fought and how they spoke to each other as it was alien to me. I had a sister and we never behaved like that.

Back then a good friend who had at one time had 3 boys under 4 told me to stop worrying about it and not to intervene in every little spat: they would resolve their issues and often things may not be intended in the deadly way I was viewing them.

I took this to heart and although I still monitored them and skilled the younger one with useful phrases which his brother was encouraged to respect like 'Don't hit me' 'I don't like that' 'I don't want to play that' etc I also impressed upon them that walking away was always an option and that if one walked away then he shouldn't be hounded.

I felt less anxious about it and they were less retaliatory because I wasn't always looking for and assigning blame to one or the other of them. Their battles came and went quickly and they often just settled down to doing something together after seeming to have fallen out terribly.

They don't fight with dd but they do nag her and criticize her for being 4 which is annoying. She holds her own though and I just watch and only intervene if they aren't sorting it out. She tells them not to boss her or that she doesn't need help or she tells them she is still learning how to do such and such and they should leave her alone. Unfortunately this is often accompanied by shrieking and we are still working on reducing that!


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

getting out of the house can be crazy--for some reason the boys want to fight and push and be really loud right when I can't find my car keys, even though I swore I put them on the hook for the keys, they baby's hat is missing, or needs a diaper change at the last minute.

I'm stressed to get somewhere on time, they're fighting, I'm confused because I can't get my stuff together.







:

And I seem to take it out on my oldest more often, even if it is really his little brother that is causing the trouble, or the baby is crying. I get over loaded, and I'm really trying to focus on my oldest, more. But it is so hard when ds#2 cries, or the baby is crying. You'd think that after 3 I'd be able to handle crying--but I can't.

When I've set everything up and have it all planned out, it isn't so bad.

I am so, so, so happy that dh can take ds#1 to school in the fall, so I don't have to get everyone up and out to get there by 7:45am.

Protein snacks are the best, but my guys won't eat cheese now. So, we do nut butters, cereals like go lean, yoghourt, etc.

But I can't eat dairy now because baby is having serious problems with milk protein in my breastmilk, so i'm on non-dairy diet.

blah, blah...


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *carmel23* 
getting out of the house can be crazy--for some reason the boys want to fight and push and be really loud right when I can't find my car keys, even though I swore I put them on the hook for the keys, they baby's hat is missing, or needs a diaper change at the last minute.

I'm stressed to get somewhere on time, they're fighting, I'm confused because I can't get my stuff together.







:


I have given up breaking my neck to get places'on-time' even if you ave anappointment somewhere you usually have to wait anyway so I have come to a place where I prioritise my sanity and calm stomach over punctuality. That said, I still have trouble getting out of the house especially if we don't have the car and are going on the bikes. the other day I went back in the house 3 times to get things I had forgotten and inbetween all that the older ones are cruising around on their bikes inthe street, dd1 is whining and teh baby is going nutty because I put her in the sling to leave my hands free before putting her in the seat and she only tolerates the sling if it looks like we are actually going somewhere - not just in and out of the house.









No solutions here except forward planning - and try not to rush!


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## open_sunflower (Jul 17, 2007)

Hey ya guys.
I am a mama of 4 currently and TTC for #5.
Bedtimes for us were also pretty crazy but I live by my bedtime routines and they have helped me immensly!

Ok so I work everything by the hour at this point, once #5 comes we'll juggle it around a little bit but here is what I do now.

baths for the two younger guys (1 and 4), while I am bathing them my two older (10 and 7) do dishes and clean off diningroom table.
while the two youngest are bathing I clean the bathroom.

I do stories with the two youngest and the older two know that they need to find something to do whilst I am doing this, at first they would come in and bug, but they know now that their turn comes.

I lay down 1yo and snuggle him...it usually takes him about 15 mins to settle.

after I get him down the bath days for the oldest bunch alternate. so depending on whose day it is, they get into the tub.

: I take some time to snuggle the 5 yo and read to the 7yo. They go down together (they sleep in the same room) and read quietly in their beds. They are usually down by 9.

I go out and do the animals (chickens and stuff) and put away outside toys. I come in and spend some time with oldest. He chooses his own bedtime and is usally down by 10:30.

Done.
I think the most important thing is taking the time to spend with each in a peaceful, not hurrying way. Giving each their hour, really helps them to unwind.
It works for us.

cheers
phoenix


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
natensarah,

I've taken your stiff drink advice literally. I went out and bought a 6-pack of Mike's Hard Lemonade (now that I'm not pg, woo hoo!). In the time that it takes me to finish one, the older two have quit yapping and fallen asleep. I've only tried it once, but that's my plan until this pack is gone. At bedtime, I'm going to ignore them (unless someone's crying), not worry about the talking and try to let them fall asleep without me going in there and telling them to be quiet every five minutes. I will leave them alone until I have a drink, or bowl of ice cream, and they will go to bed (I hope).

Great! Just don't come hunting me down if you get carried away!









I think it's great to leave them alone and just let them go to sleep without checking on them all the time. I'm almost never able to do that. I just am not able to really relax and feel like I'm "off shift" until I know they're asleep. KWIM?


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I promise, it's just one drink at a time.

It's probably a little easier for me to not go in and check on them at bedtime (looking at your kids' ages), as the ones I'm trying to convince myself to ignore as six and almost four. The younger two generally aren't away from us until they're actually asleep.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

*Triaging Needs*

How do you do it? Do you have a mental criteria? When all of the kids want something, how do you sort it all out?


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
*Triaging Needs*

How do you do it? Do you have a mental criteria? When all of the kids want something, how do you sort it all out?

Great question.

Beyond the fact that the baby almost always comes first, followed by blood and/or vomiting, I have no idea.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
*Triaging Needs*

How do you do it? Do you have a mental criteria? When all of the kids want something, how do you sort it all out?











I think this is such an honest question. It happens, you know?

I go to the child who needs the most. Once that child is in my arms or sight, I work from there. So, say a 13 yr old is bleeding, but the 2 yr old nephew is tired and really should have had a nap already, I go to the 13 yr old. The whole time I talk to all of them as calming as I can. But the bloody kid gets my attention. If the bloody kids is beedig from the knee, and the two yr old is about to pitch himself out the window, I go to the 2 yr old, of course.

Buit triage is about getting to the folks who need the most immediate attention.

Later, everyone gets some love, some care, some love talk and my thanks for being so patient when they were in need. Always aknowledge those who waited it out. "I felt so sad that I could not take care of you right away, Thank you so much for for being patinet while I helped your cousin/little sister/brother. I know you needed care. I was thinking about you the whole time I was helping :insert other child's name: and I know it's so hard to wait. You're my little guy and I love you. I'm here now".


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## crittersmom (Mar 24, 2005)

Right now there is a high chance that two are going to be crying at once with my dog adding the chorus.I do the triage thing as well so sometimes the baby is the one who has to wait because if I take care of DD then I can go back and spend more time with him.It hurts that I have to let him cry while I load or unload the car.I try to anticipate.I also thank the one who had to wait for waiting and give them hugs.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
I promise, it's just one drink at a time.

It's probably a little easier for me to not go in and check on them at bedtime (looking at your kids' ages), as the ones I'm trying to convince myself to ignore as six and almost four. The younger two generally aren't away from us until they're actually asleep.

My older two sleep together sometimes in the guest bed, and if we just let them giggle and play for awhile, they'll get sleepy and drift off together. But if we keep going in, it just distracts them until they won't sleep at all. So I'm going to try the drink thing, now. Though this only works on days my dd naps.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
I wonder how much discipline issues and family management issues overlap? For me, it seems like they intercept all the time. When I'm in a good routine and we have a daily rhythm and I have charts (there's my OCD again, LOL!) and labels and loose schedules, things go great. When we try to wing it, it all goes to hell in a handbasket. Like today.









I think this is the key in my family. I need to get into a routine.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Great question.

Beyond the fact that the baby almost always comes first, followed by blood and/or vomiting, I have no idea.

That is part of my problem. EVERYTHING seems urgent and important







:


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## coldfeet (Jun 2, 2006)

Would it be OK if I joined in on this thread as well? I haven't finished reading it in it's entirety, yet, but I wanted to jump in and ask this.

I only have 2 kiddos myself, however I do daycare for 3 other children of a good friend of ours. I'm trying to practice GD with my children, and I'd like to with his kiddos, too. Obviously.









So I have 5 kids almost every day of the week. If it's not OK that I get in on this discussion, that is absolutely fine... I totally understand.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Of course it's ok - welcome!

We are talking about how to manage multiple needs and still keep on the GD side of things; at least I think that's what we are doing, and that sounds like what you must be trying to do too.


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## 3luvz (May 22, 2005)

I'm SOOOOOOO with you guys!!
I have four kids- DD 7, DS 5,DS 2,DS 6weeks.
Basically I am still recovering from my 4th c-section TOO SLOWLY
due to lack of rest. Because my body feels like I've been hit my
a truck, my patience is non-existent! I haven't slept in weeks, but I'm too much of a control freak to hand off the kids or anything else to get a break. Nursing the two youngest ones is wonderful and draining and I wouldn't change it for the world. Everyone seems to need me at the exact same time I'm so happy to have a big,healthy family, but routines and prioritizing during this long, hot summer seems impossible! I look forward to more advice and support from you SUPERMAMAS!

Tandem nursing, non-circ, TRYING to GD happy mom to 4!














:


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## hippiemum21580 (Jul 14, 2007)

Hello all! Another MOM here trying to figure out what works discipline wise. Being a single mama makes it hard for me as sometimes I really need that extra set of hands to hand a child to, ya know? My 4 year old is my biggest struggle right now. He is soooo stubborn and spiteful and nasty. I feel liek all my work to raise peaceful children has failed with him. WHY does he scream and yell and hit and swear when I never do those things? It gets so infuriating trying to remain calm while he is acting up and I am trying to feed the baby or change my toddler or give one on one time to my oldest. He just acts so selfish....but then, I guess thats cuz he is 4.
Trying to get back on the ball with the chore chart and our routine with storytime, crafts, etc... Everything kinda went to the wayside when teh baby was born. I notice when they get bored they spend all day fighting with eachother and me.


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## hippiemum21580 (Jul 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *coldfeet* 
Would it be OK if I joined in on this thread as well? I haven't finished reading it in it's entirety, yet, but I wanted to jump in and ask this.

I only have 2 kiddos myself, however I do daycare for 3 other children of a good friend of ours. I'm trying to practice GD with my children, and I'd like to with his kiddos, too. Obviously.









So I have 5 kids almost every day of the week. If it's not OK that I get in on this discussion, that is absolutely fine... I totally understand.









I am so right there with ya mama! I also babysit for two other children ages 3 years and 3 months full time 6 days a week and I tell the parents I practice GD. (thier mom tried to tell me I could spank them if need be....) I have seen how the childrens behavior improves with me in comparison to thier home atmosphere where there is not alot of respect and alot of spanking occurs.


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## jee'smom (Mar 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
My latest GD issue:

My kids are 6, 3, 1 1/2 and 12 days and bedtime is making me crazy. My second youngest still wants me to lay down with/nurse him at bedtime but #4 seems to be cluster feeding in the evenings and doesn't want to detach. The oldest two have trouble settling down and them making noise doesn't help ds2 fall asleep.

What do you do at bedtime with a bunch of kids?

This is what I do... I have two toddler beds in my bedroom (with the middle rails out and tied together- like a double toddler bed- very cute!). I nurse newborn and place her on my chest. Then I nurse 2 1/2 yo. Then, he rolls off of my arm, and I rub his back with my right arm and dd's back with my left arm, hoping newborn doen't roll off of my chest! If newborn is awake and nursing and ds wants to also, I nurse them together, although I HATE tandem nursing (makes my skin crawl)- but they're both happy then. Then, when dd is asleep, dh moves her to her own bedroom to sleep for the night. Ds stays in toddler bed for night (usually). Good luck! I don't know how I'd do it with 4kids. Then again, by the time I have a fourth, maybe dd won't need to be touching me to fall asleep. Who knows?!


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## 3luvz (May 22, 2005)

I love hearing about the bedtime routines! I don't feel so alone in my
struggles to try to get four kids down at the same time- two of them
nurslings. Keep the stories coming!









Tandem nursing, non-circ Mama to 4-














:


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Right now we all co-sleep. It makes it easier for now. WHen dad says lights out, everyone cuddles in and goes to dreamy land.

I am lucky though.....my children are pretty sound sleepers.

Maybe it is because they have always co-slept


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## jee'smom (Mar 17, 2004)

Absolutely! Mine have always coslept also, and are very good sleepers. I was actually mad when dd (4yo) came to me and tod me she wanted to sleep in her "own bed" in her "own room". I knew it would require more work on my part (it hasn't, she sleeps right through the night in there!) and then when ds (2yo) wanted to sleep in his own bed too, I was like... WHAT?!!! He also usually sleeps through the night in his little toddler bed. Both know that they may come into our bed when they want (sometimes in the middle of the night, but always in the morning). I couldn't believe that after all of those years of cosleeping, THEY wanted to get out. Everyone told me that they would NEVER leave the family bed (not that I cared). and here they go on their own! I feel so good that they felt secure enough to sleep on their own, and I KNOW that that has to do with cosleeping! (They can't yet _fall asleep_ on their own, but that's ok by me!)

btw, the baby screaming also throws me over the edge!!! and the worse is when she's screaming and the other two are not listening and we're trying to get out the door and then the baby poops, and then one of the other kids falls...


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Can I get some advice? I need some quick and easy "remedies" for when I am feeling like I'm about to lose it. You know, when the noise is overwhelming and they keep waking up the baby and trying to escape outside in their church clothes and the best plan I can come up with is "we're going to sit on the sofa and look at books for the next hour." I just need some ideas for calming everyone down.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Can I get some advice? I need some quick and easy "remedies" for when I am feeling like I'm about to lose it. You know, when the noise is overwhelming and they keep waking up the baby and trying to escape outside in their church clothes and the best plan I can come up with is "we're going to sit on the sofa and look at books for the next hour." I just need some ideas for calming everyone down.









I need some ideas too.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Sigh. Well, I feel sort of bad. DH came home between services and I drove them all over to church. The plan was Nicholas would go to the nursery, the older two would sit with friends, and the baby and I would go to Mass for the first time in forever.

Except the baby completely freaked out on the way home, and nursed forever, and I missed Mass because honestly, I think God understands not wanting to wake a sleeping fussy baby.









So the other three are at Lutheran church, Daniel is asleep, and I am online.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Sigh. Well, I feel sort of bad. DH came home between services and I drove them all over to church. The plan was Nicholas would go to the nursery, the older two would sit with friends, and the baby and I would go to Mass for the first time in forever.

Except the baby completely freaked out on the way home, and nursed forever, and I missed Mass because honestly, I think God understands not wanting to wake a sleeping fussy baby.









So the other three are at Lutheran church, Daniel is asleep, and I am online.









We are home right now too. The plan was to make it to the 11am service but dh is working (another post entirely) and for me to get all 4 out the door would have taken longer then we had. So.....I am aiming for 6pm service. We will see if dh is with us or not.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee* 
Right now we all co-sleep. It makes it easier for now. WHen dad says lights out, everyone cuddles in and goes to dreamy land.

I am lucky though.....my children are pretty sound sleepers.

Maybe it is because they have always co-slept









You are lucky. We've always co-slept and everyone in together doesn't = my kids going to sleep.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
You are lucky. We've always co-slept and everyone in together doesn't = my kids going to sleep.


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Can I get some advice? I need some quick and easy "remedies" for when I am feeling like I'm about to lose it. You know, when the noise is overwhelming and they keep waking up the baby and trying to escape outside in their church clothes and the best plan I can come up with is "we're going to sit on the sofa and look at books for the next hour." I just need some ideas for calming everyone down.

You mean other than a fire hose?

Rescue Remedy from Bachs!! And other flower essences can tackle these types of things with your kids and you and help you manage the "symptoms" while you gain control again. Seems odd, because you feel like you're drugging your kids, but look into flower essences and see if anything clicks.

I mostly just use Rescue Remedy on myself and once in a while on my oldest. Helps me calm my nerves quickly so I can move forward.

Board games might also do the trick. Will they sit and play with you for a few minutes? A well-timed snack time and they have to help prepare the fixings?

I am dealing with this kind of thing right now. The boys get wrestling or running through the house or maybe at the table they get into giggle fits and all hell breaks lose. They get louder and louder and they begin to fall and get hurt or are banging spons in their bowls or something gets knocked off a shelf or SOMETHING and I think I am going to lose my mind.

I can't seem to get on top of it all now that I am pregnant and all the progress I had made is gone gone gone!


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I always forget about Rescue Remedy. I never really believed in it til my midwife gave it to me during labor. I was shocked at how well it worked. I'm going to bring it downstairs and set it on my mantle, LOL!

Board games cause trouble, because while my older two are fine, Nicholas is right on this side of too young. He feels excluded and causes trouble, and then it's just a Very Bad Scene.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Right now I am NAKing and I have sent the other 3 upstairs to clean their teeth and go to bed. For the last 5 mins I can hear ds2 being very loud and stupid horsing around hysterically while ds1 is part goading him and part telling him to shut up. I can't hear dd but she won't be getting any sleep while the other two are being so silly.

I am resiting the urge to go up there and shout at them becuase I am waiting to see if natural consequences calms them down without me intervening and I couldn't anyway because I can't get dd off my boob! But now I am getting that pent-up anxious feeling you are all talking about and feeling impatient.

Ah - now dd has run into their room and told them to stop it now...Dh is out dropping keys off to a new tenant so I am here on my own which is why there is stupidness going on.

Mmm I'm going to try and lay the baby down and go and see what is going on because its not calming down at all.


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
I always forget about Rescue Remedy. I never really believed in it til my midwife gave it to me during labor. I was shocked at how well it worked. I'm going to bring it downstairs and set it on my mantle, LOL!

Mine is in my purse which is almost always next to me.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Board games cause trouble, because while my older two are fine, Nicholas is right on this side of too young. He feels excluded and causes trouble, and then it's just a Very Bad Scene.

I gotcha! I had that going on forever too and now Jack is 6 and doing better with several games, so it's starting to work. That is, when they don't fight over the game which ends up happening a lot. My oldest has volitile moods due to his diagnosis and that makes it hard for everyone.


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## Fairy4tmama (Sep 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Can I get some advice? I need some quick and easy "remedies" for when I am feeling like I'm about to lose it. You know, when the noise is overwhelming and they keep waking up the baby and trying to escape outside in their church clothes and the best plan I can come up with is "we're going to sit on the sofa and look at books for the next hour." I just need some ideas for calming everyone down.

ok I am still ever so slowly reading this thread in my very few minutes to sit each day







: but I am in the process of making a little envelope that has 3x5 cards in it with calming activities written on it things like drive cars thru a tray of rice, get out playdough, corn starch and water, tell a made up story with kids names in it, etc. I swear one of my biggest issues right now is just that I lack creative energy to keep coming up with ideas. so as I think of more "oh yea that worked well when we..." I write it on a card and toss it in the envelope. Secretly I call it the "YOU ARE DRIVING ME CRAZY" envelope because when I start thinking that I need a creative idea. If I pull a card that can't work like cornstarch and water but we can't get messy I just put it back and pull another. So far its working......

off to read what other suggestions you got...I came to whine about my day but now I am to lazy

ETA AM I hear ya with board games but we do have one that seems to work well for my gang its called ANIMA and the "board" is actualy put together with randomly placed tiles so I tell the bigger kids to give the two year olds a handful of tiles and a ghost and the make their own game .


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Oh.....a jar with activities. Good idea!







:


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

I so need this thread. Just added #3, so now I have three under three for at least a few months until DS1 turns 4. As with the birth of my second son, I know that whenever the baby is crying is a trigger. I keep reminding myself that the others are still babies too, which helps... but not always.


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## momuveight2B (Mar 17, 2006)

When I am going nuts I lock myself in the bathroom, I don't even try to get control of the chaos. I'm a coward. While I'm in there they pass notes under the door, scream and bang on the door and demand that they must use the potty however there are two other bathrooms in the house but mine is the best. I went there last night and completely abandoned dh because I just couldn't take it anymore. I soaked in the tub for an hour.

When I came out dh had dishes done, toys picked up and lunches made for today.

Of course it doesn't happen that way when he is not here. So I don't stay in there long but at least will brush my teeth or my hair or something to make myself feel better. Run cold water over my wrists and face. Give myself a pep talk in the mirror.

When I come out I have a plan and put it into action. It starts with me asking myself what is needed here for me to feel in control and then what do the kids need? I come out and do whatever I have decided to do, usually a snack or activity.

Sometimes they never miss me at all and that is bliss for a few minutes









Somedays I just feel really good to go to bed and know that everyone is still alive and happy.


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

The boys (6, 9 and 12) have moved into this phase of doing things for fun... things they KNOW they're not supposed to do, but if they think mom's sleeping or busy, they will do it anyway.

I am always around, so I always catch them. It may take me 5 or 10 minutes if I am doing laundry (in the garage) but I still am ever present. Even if it's 7:30am and they're awake and I am in bed, I know what's going on. The house is small, there's no carpet to absorb noise, and I've just never been able to sleep when my kids are awake.

It really really (did I say really?) bothers me! This instant gratification stuff. To heck with the rules and knowledge that we will get into trouble, if we think mom has looked way we will do it anyway.

In the grand scheme of things, it's not bad stuff at all. Nothing like major damage or swinging knives. The kids are generally great kids. But it's the stuff I have asked them repeatedly not to do in my adult wisdom (because x, y and z) could happen, etc.

Like if one's in the bath tub, the other two should stay out. Yet this morning I came in from the laundry after 5 minutes and the other two are elbow deep in the bath with the third and there's water all over the bathroom.

Sure, sure, just playing, right? But I have asked them not to because of the privacy for the child in the bath and the messy water factor and they KNOW I have asked them not to. Because even if they clean up the water, it's not 100%, I have to ask for it cleaned up, check that it's done, hang the rug to dry, and worry about any water damage/problems later on. I don't own this house and even if I did, they shouldn't destroy it.

I find it SO disrespectful that they won't stop doing the things I have asked them not to. Nothing seems to phase them now, and I am at the end of my discipline rope.

I want to be gentle in my discipline, but they're making that harder AND what form of discipline can I even do??? Seems like all it ever is is talking about the incident while they all repeatedly say, "Yes mom" and then damage control. But nothing stops it next time. I have talked and talked and talked!!!

We've tried a few other things and nothing seems to leave an impression. They're just on to the next thing they think they can do when I am not looking. And for the LIFE of me...I didn't do this stuff when I was their age and we had no parents around!! WHY do they do it when they know they get busted EVERY BLASTED time?!

Is it like exercising a dog and they're just not getting enough fun outside the home or even at home? Well there's just no way to make it any better right now. And even if I did try, they're so far apart in age and likes that it's nearly impossible to set up things every day that each will love. I am so frustrated. I never saw this part of life coming, you know?


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## Fairy4tmama (Sep 3, 2003)

's mamas,
GR I wish I had someting to offer up but







: I was just kinda hoping that type of stuff got better with age ....maybe not







:

what do you all do(if anything) about wrestling. I feel like I am raising bear cubs ....only they don't have fur to help buffer each others attacks and I feel like some *always* gets hurt just as I am changing some one out of poopy clothes, nurse the baby who has already waited to eat untill I could settle every one, handling raw meat,insert your own crisis du jour! I know that they need to be physical and that this is to a large extent normal but how do you cope!


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Gina (and Fairy)

I feel that boys do just like to do stuff that is a bit risky - either it's dangerous or you might catch them. If they can't do stuff outdoors that is testing their physical selves then maybe they are doing the 'Oh she might catch us and be mad' stuff instead? Talking about it and how upsetting it is to you doesn't seem to help in the short term because they still have the 'urge' to do it and its a bit deeper than their rational selves - just like dogs wanting to keep running as you said!

We have tried to offer them opportunities to do this stuff out of the house when we can. Climbing trees, racing bikes running/rollling down hills at full pelt, walking on walls, balancing on posts and other stuff like that. We also encouraged wrestling for a long time but that has passed now more or less. Dh used to take them in the garden every night and lay a stick on the ground and they would do sumo type wrestling to try to push their opponent over the stick. It always ended in laughter and they didn't hurt each other.

We have a small garden but we go over to the field close to our house and play frisbee or have how-far-can-you-throw-the-ball challneges, or play badminton without a net just to get us all rushing about. I really couldn't do much other than be referee when I was pregnant or carrying littlest dd in the sling but now that she is able to stand up on her own we are all back to frisbeeing and leaping about. Even though ours are 14 10 and 4 they all have fun together doing this. I have to add that we are not a sporty family in any way but we can stretch to this kind of ywithout too much trouble.

Another thing which we don't do because it is so expensive here but is great for lads, is swimming. Do yours swim? They sound like they might have fun instead of doing it in the bath and you could take the weight off your bump too maybe? Then perhaps you could have a discussion about not doing it in the bath because you are going to do it on x day at the pool?


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GinaRae* 
Is it like exercising a dog and they're just not getting enough fun outside the home or even at home? Well there's just no way to make it any better right now. And even if I did try, they're so far apart in age and likes that it's nearly impossible to set up things every day that each will love.

It does sound like they are bored. Do they get regular physical activity? That's a biggie--kids need to be active for some part of the day.

We go on hikes in the woods, swimming, a trip to the zoo. Give them opportunities to work off all of that rambunctious energy they have. Sometimes, when my 10yo seems to have a lot of pent up energy, I'll suggest that she go run around the block







If her sister will time her she's all over it.

What kinds of things can they do at home? Do they like Legos, board games, building models, cooking?

It might be helpful to have a family meeting. You could come up with a list of family rules together.

I think I got this from _How to Talk so Kids Will Listen_ (I've read so many, they blur







). When they do mess up, I find it helpful to:
*State your feelings* _It frustrates me when you get in the tub with your brother. It makes a mess of the bathroom, and I don't like to clean it up._
*State your expectations* _I expect you to stay out of the bathroom while your brother is bathing._
*Show how to make amends* _Help me clean up this mess._


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Dh and I decided to have 45min of time outside everyday after lunch. (More for the older 2 if they wish but the younger two have to nap)

I think that should help.

PS...My children get ALOT more activity in. They are in dance....well Dom dances like 15 hours a week







: The kid is crazy!







Abby dances almost as much. Angelo 30 min to an hour a week. Plus they do sports at different times and such.

The older two still seem to get bored and nutty







So we are thinking of doing a "gym class" during 1 or 2 of these outside times and teaching them new gmes and activities that they can do together. That way they will have a greater pool of thing to choose from when they are bored.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Are we talking Rescue Remedy for the kids or for us?


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
Are we talking Rescue Remedy for the kids or for us?

Yes.


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
I think I got this from _How to Talk so Kids Will Listen_ (I've read so many, they blur







). When they do mess up, I find it helpful to:
*State your feelings* _It frustrates me when you get in the tub with your brother. It makes a mess of the bathroom, and I don't like to clean it up._
*State your expectations* _I expect you to stay out of the bathroom while your brother is bathing._
*Show how to make amends* _Help me clean up this mess._

I have the book and that's exactly what I do, all the time, naturally! Even before reading the book (and I don't remember if I have ever read it or if it's sitting there waiting for me!).


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## Teensy (Feb 22, 2002)

Most days, I would feel like I could only come on here and vent similar frustrations! But today is a pretty good day, so I'll try to add some of the things that work for me.

Sometimes the problems are real and must be dealt with (sick or hurt, need to get out the door to pick a child up from school, baby needs to nurse, etc.) but often the problem is really only a mental one (the house is messy, I think the kids need a bath before bed, etc.). If I am in a bad mood, I try to catch myself and ask - Does this have to happen right now? Or can it slide until tomorrow?

Now this thread says "support" in the title, so no flames allowed! Often what causes me frustration is trying to live up to the NFL ideals of MDC. So if I am in one of those moods, I have determined that our family does better if I forget the "ideals" and just let the kids do what they want (even if it is watch TV or play computer games) while I nuke a bowl of Beef-a-roni for their lunch. Now I know someone else will post that their family gets in a better mood by all joining together to chop fresh vegetables while singing songs, but I haven't found that to work in my own family.









When I am about to snap I have told everyone to go get in the van and we just go for a ride, usually to get icecream or treats from a drive-thru. I have told the kids that once they get in the tub they can have freezer pops. I have told the boys that they can stay up as late as the want, as long as they stay in their rooms and I can't hear them. Is this as good as healthy foods and a good nights sleep? No, but on those days when perfect parenting seems as far away as the moon, it seems a better alternative than the yelling and screaming that I am trying to limit.

On our better days, the bedtime routine works best if I can stagger things. One child bathes before dinner, the other bathes after dinner while I am doing the read books/brush teeth/neaten room routine with his brother. DD either comes last if she took a nap, or else she got her bath and pajamas in the late afternoon once it was sure she wasn't going to nap, and would be going to sleep earlier. I try to keep the kids somewhat separated so that they can't antagonize each or, or in the alternative, get playing together so they don't want to go to bed. Doing the kids one by one may take longer than trying to do the bedtime routine together, but it doesn't seem longer since it is much less stressful for me.

I always have a book on tape (or my iPod) to listen to. That also helps distract me from the frustrations I feel with a messy house and wild kids. My DH laughs at me, but it really helps keep me sane.

And the before dinner wine - add some cheese and crackers and its downright civilized!


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

So right now:

Angelo (2) is playing some horrifying song on the organ while standing naked on the arm off our living room chair.

Abby (5) is asking me to help her with her workbook......after I just freaked out because they are not listening.

Dom (7) randomly walking around....I guess he put a new dipe on Mylee

Mylee (8 months) is whining unless she is pulling out what has already been picked up.

Me.....trying to read to them from online books (THEY chose their curriculum!) They will not listen to me!









I just want to crawl in a hole and sleep......for years.









My body (having major health issues) hurts. I can not walk well and can barely pick up Mylee or Angelo.

And the kids are crazy!


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Sorry you're having a rough day AngelBee.







I hope tomorrow's better.


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## DTmama1 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hope it's ok if I jump in here. I'm also a daycare provider, looks like there are a few of us. My own DD is 2.5. We recently became foster parents, but no kids yet (taking 1 or two kids btn 0 and 6). But on any given day I have 1 7 mo old, 2 8 mo olds, 1 13 mo old, 1 21 month old, 1 2 yo (plus my own 2yo), 1 4yo, and 1 6yo, plus I'm a PT student taking classes online, so it gets pretty crazy here. I'm trying towards more GD techniques, but just get so overwhelmed and nothing seems to work. I never want to post here bc I'm seen so many ppl flamed for non-GD practices, even when they're trying to change... but this thread seems pretty supportive.

I really want to let the kids freely create and play, but then it seems like we spend about an hour cleaning up before lunch just every day, from 2 hours of playing. Going crazy just trying to keep everything out of the babies mouths. My own 2yo bit last Friday and then on Monday again, but I didn't catch her doing it either time. Monday the one she bit, it was the daycare girl's first day though... eeks, thankfully her mom didn't flip out.

I think the biggest thing I need to work on is not multitasking during the day. I try to get extra things done, then everything turns into a mess, the kids get crabby, and I get crabby, and everything else then takes twice as long. Hard to not do though.

Anyways, hope I am welcome here, glad to find a place I hopefully will fit in.
Melody


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Subbing even though I only have 3 (ages 5, 2, and 6 months). Feels like many to me though I know it's not. Here to learn!


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

Does anyone have a pre-teen that's getting "the mouth" and it's driving you batty? Rolling eyes and 'oh my god, moms' galore! Gahhhh!!!


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## Fairy4tmama (Sep 3, 2003)

orangefoot- thanks for your post about offering challenges the more I think about your post the more it resonates with me, while the boys get what seems like plenty of physical activity its not always challenging (for them anyway







: ). I am going to replase the phrases "please stop wrestling/running in the house/jumping on the furnature" with "hey how about we <insert physical challenge>". Its gotta work better then please stop wrestling/running in the house/jumping on the furnature


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## beebaweewa (May 21, 2005)

I'm just dropping in to say Hi, and that I'm lurking on this thread. I have a 3.5 YO DS, a 21 mos old DS and a 7 wk old DD. For me just getting to sit down and type is a challenge these days, so I mostly just surf the net while I'm nursing. (As it is, right now I'm typing one-handed while I nak and my 3.5 YO is hovering beside me with a spaceship he made from lego.)
I'm really glad that this thread got started and if I ever have a question and can actually sit down to type it then maybe I'll join in.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fairy4tmama* 
orangefoot- thanks for your post about offering challenges the more I think about your post the more it resonates with me, while the boys get what seems like plenty of physical activity its not always challenging (for them anyway







: ). I am going to replase the phrases "please stop wrestling/running in the house/jumping on the furnature" with "hey how about we <insert physical challenge>". Its gotta work better then please stop wrestling/running in the house/jumping on the furnature









Yes, I can totally use this advise, too. When I am trying to think, or get something done (that really needs to be done, like cooking for hungry kids) and they wrestle, jump off the couch, etc. It can drive me batty (especially when the baby is playing on the floor







: )... They can jump on their beds all they want--do whatever they want in their rooms, or in the sun room--but their favorite is the couch...

And the explosion noises! There are constantly bombs going off in our living room, car crashes, and jet engines... arg.

We live in a dense, urban place--we don't have a yard







: ... so when they play outside it is in the front, supervised, or at the park around the corner... there is really no place (outside) for them to freak out without me watching or walking with them to the park. We probably won't be able to move for at least 6 months, and it just breaks my heart... But we do get out everyday or swim... but it really makes me feel bad that they don't have their own yard, ykim?


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

This is one of the most honest ebay "descriptions" I've ever read
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=130144061675


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
This is one of the most honest ebay "descriptions" I've ever read
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=130144061675

$142.00 ??? That's crazy.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
This is one of the most honest ebay "descriptions" I've ever read
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=130144061675


I like how she mentioned my very favorite part of having three children:

"You certainly have your hands full!"

Oh, really?!?


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## AngieB (Oct 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
This is one of the most honest ebay "descriptions" I've ever read
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=130144061675

Did I write that in my sleep and not remember? It sounds like one of my shopping trips.

That was the funniest and most honest thing I have read in a long time. I wonder if she is a MDC mama? I'm going to check out her blog.


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## kayjayjay (Jul 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GinaRae* 
Does anyone have a pre-teen that's getting "the mouth" and it's driving you batty? Rolling eyes and 'oh my god, moms' galore! Gahhhh!!!









We're right there with ya. I've really found that giving DD her space helps. We homeschool which means we're all here together all day, so we really need to have peace. It's hard at times for me to control my anger when her behavior gets hurtful, but I remind myself not to take it personally and so far when I avoid taking the bait and just walk away she snaps out of it within the hour. I'm trying very hard to avoid putting a wedge between us because I know we're going to need a very strong attachment to get through the next few years!


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## kayjayjay (Jul 15, 2003)

I read that ebay description, it was sent to one of my homeschool lists...very funny. It touches on the most difficult thing for me about having 4 kids, which is grocery shopping. I keep telling myself I'm going to get a system set up with menus and lists and planned trips to the store, but I've developed such a fear of grocery shopping that I put it off until the last possible minute. My 3yo and 6yo will have a fist fight every time we go, no matter what time of day or how hard I try to head it off.


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## Fairy4tmama (Sep 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
This is one of the most honest ebay "descriptions" I've ever read
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=130144061675









:







:







OMG that IS exactly why I DO NOT take my kiddos with me to the store & I only have three. I would rather do triage shopping every night at 10:00 then take them....in fact I gotta run to the strore right now


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

Haven't finished reading all of this but wanted to say thanks for the inspiration and ideas.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Here's a question--when you have something to do, like haircuts or physicals, do you find it better for discipline and sanity if you schedule everyone at the same time (or one after the other) or do you take them all at different times?


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GinaRae* 
Does anyone have a pre-teen that's getting "the mouth" and it's driving you batty? Rolling eyes and 'oh my god, moms' galore! Gahhhh!!!

I've had a couple that tried that but they got *black out* immediately. It ended their misconceived notion that they can be snotty b/c they're teens/pre teens.


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Here's a question--when you have something to do, like haircuts or physicals, do you find it better for discipline and sanity if you schedule everyone at the same time (or one after the other) or do you take them all at different times?

Different times for sure. A couple at a time, three at most. Now that I have a 15 year old to help babysit I don't find it necessary to drive myself insane


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## lovemyfamily6 (Dec 27, 2006)

Great thread! We have four kids, all boys- almost 6, 4 year old twins and a 4 month old baby. I'm keeping lots of these tips in mind and wrote down the three guidelines from How to Talk...

I love the "get in the van and get drive through ice cream" idea. Dh is totally on board and we either already think the same when it comes to the kids, or I tell him stuff I've read and we agree it makes sense, and he helps keep me in check by quietly reminding me "Remember how you said you read..." when I'm not following the advice we've heard/read. I know I'm very lucky for that.

One thing I've been trying really hard to do lately is to go to them. No more talking AT them from another room. No more expecting them to stop doing something they think is fun because I said so. I'm stating what and why, then helping with a distraction that I'm involved with if necessary.

We've been reading a lot of books. If things are crazy, I say "Hey, let's read stories!" If we have time, they each choose one. If we only have five minutes, I choose (usually Guess How Much I Love You).


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## AngieB (Oct 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Here's a question--when you have something to do, like haircuts or physicals, do you find it better for discipline and sanity if you schedule everyone at the same time (or one after the other) or do you take them all at different times?

I'm very lucky to have my mom near by and she usually goes with me and will sit in the waiting room while I take one in at a time.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Here's a question--when you have something to do, like haircuts or physicals, do you find it better for discipline and sanity if you schedule everyone at the same time (or one after the other) or do you take them all at different times?

For physicals, I try to schedule them two at a time (ds2 and dd have one coming up).

Haircuts, I do myself at home, usually just one at a time because by the time I'm done one of them, I don't want to cut anyone else's. I do them myself because it's too expensive to take three kids (ds3 doesn't have hair yet) out for a haircut.


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## kissykoko (Feb 24, 2006)

subbing, I just have 3 occassionally 4 if my 15yr.old dsd is visiting. my youngest is 3weeks old and my 3yr old ds is so aggressive with my 6yr old dd. getting out of the house is tough and so is bedtime. i am yelling a lot. I am losing my temper with my 3 yr old daily since the baby arrived. I feel like such a mean,frazzled, no-fun mom.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

*Reading Snippets?*

Who can recommend Gentle Discipline reading that I can do in short doses? I tend to get interrupted often when trying to read during the day, but when the kids are awake is when I need to dose myself with the GD readings.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I know not everyone here loves him, but I find the Dr. Sears Discipline Book very east to read in small doses.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
*Reading Snippets?*

Who can recommend Gentle Discipline reading that I can do in short doses? I tend to get interrupted often when trying to read during the day, but when the kids are awake is when I need to dose myself with the GD readings.

I would recommend _How to Talk so Kids Will Listen_ by Faber and mazlish, or _Playful Parenting_ by Lawrence Cohen. You could open either book, read a page, and learn something helpful.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kissykoko* 
subbing, I just have 3 occassionally 4 if my 15yr.old dsd is visiting. my youngest is 3weeks old and my 3yr old ds is so aggressive with my 6yr old dd. getting out of the house is tough and so is bedtime. i am yelling a lot. I am losing my temper with my 3 yr old daily since the baby arrived. I feel like such a mean,frazzled, no-fun mom.


















You have a very young new born! I know, a new born and a three year-old are a challenging combination (a 3 yo without sleep even without an infant to care for can be difficult!) . You 3 yo is still getting used to baby, too... Give yourself time, and your 3 yo lots of hugs and kisses. Deep breaths!

My 3 year-old and 6 year-old get along and fight at the same time







... Sometimes they are best buds, sometimes I just have to separate them...

And if everything is going wacky, we read stories, too (as someone mentioned above)...


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## mama-a-llama (Feb 8, 2006)

I don't feel like I'm really a mom of many--I only have 3 (2y11m, 1y10m but globally delayed, and 2 wk old) and I feel really validated reading this thread, so I'm posting.

I'm curious about you mamas thoughts about the love flooding concept. I'd really love to get into more of that sort of thing when things are going badly, make that my default response rather than yelling







: But how to DO it while managing the needs of 3 littles?


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

Just wanted to check in and say hi to everyone. I have been in the middle of a move and have not had much time on the computer. Still am unpacking and have tons to do, so there is little time now to sit and chat. But just wanted to touch in with all my tribes.

So, I am still around, just not very vocal at this moment.









Moving with six children that are tired of moving, working, and stressed is a great time to practice GD. And I have actually been very good lately.







So I am getting a lot of practice.


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ekblad9* 
I've had a couple that tried that but they got *black out* immediately. It ended their misconceived notion that they can be snotty b/c they're teens/pre teens.









Black out?? What's that?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama-a-llama* 
I'm curious about you mamas thoughts about the love flooding concept.

I am not all that interested in love flooding for when things are going badly. I tend to be this way ALL the time. Okay, not SO flooding as she was talking about because I don't play games with love.

But for instance, we say 'I love you' so many times per day, I can't count. I ask them to do something and say, "Thanks, bubba!. Love ya."

Yesterday I truly upset my special needs 12 year old and he did the whole grab the head and cry out thing. I was angry with him and hormonal and wanted to continue to yell at him, but instead I held out my arms and said, "Come here. I'm sorry, I am so sorry I yelled at you. I shouldn't have yelled. I'm frustrated. I'm sorry, I love you!"

So anywhoo, I guess maybe I just hold them, rub them, tell them I love them, smile and laugh so much on a daily basis, even when it's not a good day. I suppose I naturally flood them every day instead of waiting for the bad times and then trying to fit it in.

Every day COULD be considered a bad day AND a good day, depending on how you look at it. My oldest was really causing major problems lately and the whole family was caving. We figured out what was going on and things equalized quickly. It was HARD to keep saying I love you when he was so mean to me and the boys. But I do so, because i DO love him.

I see it in return too. My youngest is the most vocal about his love and appreciation for me. The others rub my preggo tummy, kiss my cheek, play with my hair, tell me they love me every day, etc.

Somehow it just works.

I would suggest NOT trying to love flood with games and what not when you have so many kids, and instead make it a foundation... a piece of the structure of your family that is shown every single day.


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

"black out" is when they lose all privileges. No computer, TV, ipod, radio, friends, ect. In our house I try to teach that mutual respect gets privilages and being rude or disrespectful does not (regardless of age or mood). We do a ton of "I love you's" and hugs and kisses all the time. I really haven't had a bad time of it at all. The kids have been pretty respectful and we just enjoy them.


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

Oh I gotcha!

The boys have consequences too that usually work just fine, but there just seemed to be an extra dose of mouth coming at me. Once we'd found out (since my initial post about mouthiness) what was going on with my oldest, he's settled down really well again.

He's being sweeter and more understanding and we're able to work together again. I just wish we'd had his levels checked months ago when the problems came to a head instead of assuming it was just summer time stress since he's used to school routines. I could have saved this pregnancy a lot of stress.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Hi all! Just checking in to say, "hola."

We've been back to school for a week, and things seem to be going alright. My dh is not working as much as before, which is nice to have him around a lot more







: , but we are really broke... but it is nice to be able to split the kids up and do stuff one on one, or even, *gasp* by myself...

I'm looking into a Montessori preschool for my 3.5 year-old. He has major separation anxiety... so we'll take it easy. I hope he does like it, though, since I'll be in a master's program in spring semester







...

Anyway, I hope everyone has a nice, long weekend


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## michaelsmama (May 20, 2003)

I'm new to this area of mothering and just exploring GD as a concept, but wanted to say hi. We have 2 - 4.5 and 20 mos - and one due in nov/dec (and who knows how many after that one) so we're on our way to a bigger family. As i learn more about GD i'll be interested to read more on how you all actually put it into practice (and to see how it fits in with what we've been doing since DS1 was born).


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## michaelsmama (May 20, 2003)

Oh yeah and our house is plenty noisy with just 2 boys - who love music esp drums and guitars, and running, and soccer, and the shiny wood floors which are good for sliding and crashing...


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## mama-a-llama (Feb 8, 2006)

Thanks Gina, that makes sense. I do need to do more of that.

Any thoughts about what to do with my almost 3 yo? She has so much energy, I KNOW what she probably needs is more physical play, but don't know how to provide it w/ a newborn that wants to be ON me most of the time. DH isn't home until late/nearly bedtime most days. We live in a multigenerational household which is awesome, but Grampa isn't quite up to the rough stuff.

ETA: I always feel like such a wimp admitting I have help that most mamas would totally envy and I STILL struggle. Please be gentle


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## yskapl (Aug 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momuveight2B* 
... it is a process, a journey not a destination. As I learned better from other moms I did better. So where ever you are in this process right now give yourself a HUGE pat on the back because just that you are aware of the need to GD is more than half way there.

The years go by quick and these littles ones are so precious. The older I get the more I know what the older women mean when they tell us to cherish every moment because it won't last long. It doesn't. So on really hard days I remember this and when I have a child that is so unlovable at the moment I reach out and put them on my lap and not across it. I have learned to offer a hug and not a timeout that only really addresses my own frustration. That reconnection with our children is so powerful and begins the day they are born when we put them to our breast.

Just keep working at GD and never give up. It really does work in the long run to have a peaceful family. These little people will one day be ruling our country, taking care of us in our old age and raising our grandchildren. We want the best outcome so it is always a worthy goal to work hard at it each day.


Thank you for the reminder. You are all so awesome.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

and wondering how everyone is doing?


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 







and wondering how everyone is doing?

Not good







:


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I've been working on my resolution not to yell. And beyond not yelling, not to be sarcastic or have an exasperated tone. Yesterday was really tough.

We had a hectic start to the morning and then my sister called. I shouldn't have answered it, but her name didn't show up on the caller ID and I was afraid it was a church member.

Then we were doing reading and Nicholas was being noisy, so I sent him to play upstairs. Reading took forever (Why was she making g sounds?!?! The last g was 6 pages back!) and was exasperating and I was praying so hard for patience. Plus the baby was fussing. And Nick was screaming "Can I come down yet? I WILL BE QUIET!"

So, finish reading, latch on baby, send Katie Grace up to get her brother. She goes up, but never comes back down. Trying to get fussy teething baby to sleep, but not only are they not coming down, they're banging doors, screaming, chucking stuff around. I'm trying to yell--without waking the baby--"Get back downstairs now, please!" Which honestly, I probably wouldn't have done if they were just being quiet. I would have waited till the baby was good and asleep.

Went upstairs, and Katie Grace had shut herself in a closet and couldn't get out. (When I called DH to tell him what happened, at this point he said, "Wait. You did let her out, right?"







I did.) This is where I really lost it and just screamed. I screamed that seeing as she wasn't a dress, she had absolutely no reason to be in the closet with the door shut. I screamed that she was old enough to do what I asked, especially something as simplistic as 'Tell your little brother he can come downstairs, and then come back down." I screamed that never in my life had I wanted to spank a child more, and it was a horrible thing to scream at a child. I realized I was out of control and sent the boy child down to clean up his blocks and the girl child down to sit on the bottom step, and I took a couple minutes to get myself together and feel generally miserable and the, while walking down the stairs, tripped and fell over a block Nicholas had left there. I hurt my wrist, thumb, back, and tushie. It was probably one of my lowest parenting moments ever, and my back still hurts today. Karma, I guess.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I should add, I did kiss them and love on them and let them know that I was absolutely in the wrong to yell. They were in the wrong to not listen and to play in a loud way that wasn't respectful of their baby brother, but I had absolutely no call to yell like that.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Thank youu for sharing that. As selfish as it might be, it makes me feel better







:

Sometimes I feel SO ALONE! One is asking me to read to them, one wants to go outside....in the rain, dog is barking, cat just peed on my bed, Mylee bites me with her new found tooth while nursing, phone rings (dance academy calls), bill collector at the door for dh, 2 yr old is helping and washing dishes.....about a gallon of water on the floor which the older two just fell into.







:

I told them I was moving out the other day














:

Finding a balance just sometimes seems so impossible.

There are times I think "If only I swatted them...they would _______ (fill in the blank)"

But then I think of how I feel when I was little. They way I would flinch when my mom would go to give me a hug.









I never want my children to flinch when I go to hug them. :cry

Still......some days are just so difficult.


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## lovemyfamily6 (Dec 27, 2006)

Hi! Can I join in here? We have a boy that will be 6 next month, 4 year old twin boys and an almost 5 month old baby boy.

I recently (as in earlier this week!) read Connection Parenting. I'm totally on board with it being the way I want to parent. My issue is that it seems so hard to do with multiple kids. Our biggest issues are usually between the big boys. We can't just let them work it out because it ends badly always. I can't sit by while my kids beat on or pinch each other. So I'm really struggling with how to be respectful to all of them all the time.

It has really been helping me to do the "think twice speak once" thing. And before speaking, I've been pretending they're an annoying relative that I need to deal with nicely because we're family.







I did great a couple days ago but by last night, not so much. They just drove me crazy. And just now. Opening the back screen door and standing there. They don't want to go out, they just want to open the door. Which means flies are coming in to drive us crazy.

Me: Let's leave the door closed please. I don't want the bugs to come in.

Twins: But we want to open the door.

Me: Why?

Twins: We want to. (opens door again)

Me: (closes door myself) Leave the door closed please.

Twins: But we want it open. (opens again)

Me: I said leave it closed.

Twins: (opens door again, then one twin blames his brother- mom, he's opening the door)

Me: Stop it both of you. Go out of the kitchen. There's no need for you to be in here now. I said leave the door CLOSED!

Them: Oooookaaaaaay.

That kind of stuff frustrates me so much. Just leave the damn door closed.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

lovemyfamily6.....I have sooooo had those days!


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