# Why would a parent do this??



## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

As a disclaimer, I work in a daycare (infant room). I try to be really understanding and I KNOW parents do things different and, while I may not agree with it, I do have to deal with it to a degree.

So we have a 4 month old boy, we'll call him *D*. He's only been in our daycare for a couple weeks now. Monday he was ill, fever (99.x, we tend to send home once it hits 100), pooping everywhere multiple times, vomited once. When mom came to pick him up I told her all that had been happening. I made it *very* clear that he's ill.

Tuesday hits and we had a nasty ice storm on Monday night. Closed all the schools and most daycares (ours was one of the lucky ones who decided to stay open







). The mom of *D* has the day off work (she told us that Monday when she picked him up) so we figured he wouldn't be there. Wrong. She brings him. She put him in the swing and kinda turned her back so we couldn't see what she was doing..... which was giving the baby tylenol







: And then she left (later we looked in the diaper bag to put something away and saw it was CHILDREN'S TYLENOL. You know, for kids age 2 and up. For a 4 month old baby
















Anyway, Tuesday he's cranky, not eating well at all, crying, pooping, wheezing (a really bad wheeze), and- by 2:00- has run out of diapers because he's pooped so much. One of my co-workers called the mom to tell her (she's a friend of the mom). The mom basically said "So what? I'll get him when I decide to pick him up" and said she was at home resting.

I don't play that game. This baby is ILL. He is struggling to breath. If she didn't pick him up I was sure I was going to have to call an ambulance (and, subsequently, CPS). I took his temp- over 100. Co-worker called mom back and told her the temp. The mom said "So what? Do I really have to come get him?". Ummmm.... yeah. You do. She came and got him at 4:00 with an attitude. Co-worker basically told her that she needed to take him to the dr and stood there while she called to make the appointment (which ended up being at an after hours clinic at 5:00). I go to work in a couple hours and will see if he's there today....

But why do people have babies if that's how they're going to treat them? Seriously.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

why do people like this have babies if this is how they are going to treat them?

good question. i would hazard a guess that the answer is somewhere along the lines of "because they think they should" or "in case they might want them someday."

very sad. it makes me wonder how she treats him at home, that she needed him out of her hair so bad that she dumped him off with you guys, when he's sick and she has the day off.


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## Milkymommi (Aug 29, 2003)

That's heartbreaking







I really had no idea what this post was about when I followed it from the homepage... I feel the same way you do. Unfortunately my feelings are heavily compounded by the fact that I lost my own precious baby in Oct to stillbirth. It's something I've always felt strongly about anyway, if people aren't totally consumed and in love with their children wanting to always take care of them to the best of their abilities- why have them? If they are a hassel, which when one sees these types of situations it's only fair to assume, why?

Maybe she's a first time mom and overwhelmed? Just trying to be fair but at the same time... I get overwhelmed too but common sense and love for my children drive me to do the right things kwim? Not to harp and be overly critical but her attitude upon pick up says to me that she KNEW she was doing something wrong. Acting put out or that you ladies were being rediculous to help herself to avoid feeling responsible. Yikes, I hope the baby is ok. Poor Little.


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## kirstenb (Oct 4, 2007)

Oh that poor baby.







I know when my son is sick he wants to do nothing besides cuddling on the couch with me.

Does your daycare have rules for when kids are sick? I know my son's daycare will call parents for immediate pickup if their temp is over 100 degress, or if they vomit or have diarrhea. They also have to stay home the next day.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

that's rough. I would definitely send sick kiddos home and requre that they be well for 24 hrs straight before coming back... especially with vomiting and diarrhea.

But I know that's easier said than done and when I worked in childcare we had plenty of times where infants and toddler came in drugged up on a kiddie cocktail of fever reducers and cough meds which would mask their illness in the morning and they'd be struggling the rest of the day.

I think often it was because the parent could not get time off from work and they didn't seem to realize the importance of not exposing all the other children... you know how it is when one is sick, they all tend to get sick and it can be a never-ending cycle.

that is really sad about her attitute and scary that she was giving him children's tylenol. Poor baby, I hope he got the care he needs and feel better soon.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Wow, that's awful. I try to never judge other people, but it's hard to imagine leaving a sick 4 month old at daycare and having an attitude about taking him to the dr. when he's wheezing.









My son is 6 and has asthma/wheezing that is brought on by illness. Even without a fever, when he's wheezy, he feels so yucky. I'm lucky in that I can work from home if needed, so I'll keep him home with me until his chest has cleared up. I can't imagine at 4 months old how pittiful he would feel.

I hope that little guy is feeling better soon.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

At the preschool my son attended, this was not acceptable behavior, and would likely get you a visit from CPS.

I understand that employers are not always understanding about things, but this "mother" was at home. This was not a case of her getting fired if she wasn't at work.

She had no reason, as far as we know, not to come get her sick baby. I don't care if she is depressed or her pantyhose are too tight, you do not neglect a sick infant.

Poor baby.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

My wife is a former professional preschool teacher, and if a parent ever returned to preschool (to _any_ of the preschools where she worked over the years) with a child who had vommitted or had diahrea the day before (and a fever...though it depends on the exact temp), let alone "all of the above," it would violate health code and she would have turned away the child at the door.

It was hard sometimes because some parents were struggling to make enough money to make ends meet and needed to get to work, but the preschools always were very upfront from the time of enrollment and dw had to enforce the policy, which was a requirement of the state. It would have violated their license to do otherwise, not to mention put the other kids at risk.

So I don't really understand why the "daycare" (childcare) where your work didn't call the mom in after the second diahrea or the first vomit on the first day! That's shocking.

As for the mom, that doesn't sound good. There are any number of reasons that a mom might behave that way, ranging from being simply tired and overwhelmed and perhaps without support and good information (and most likely, without any parent role models)...to a severe postpartum depression...to early stages of child neglect. I would talk to her very directly about your concerns, or ask the director to do so, and keep a close eye on her. Things could quickly go from bad to worse, or things may just continue to be "borderline but damaging" if nothing is done.


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## guestmama9917 (Oct 26, 2008)

poor little guy! but, maybe he was better off with you that day (i know that is not really the point..) but you were able to care for him, made sure he had his bum changed etc. do you think this would have been done by her in light of her behaviour?


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I agree that this wasn't the right way for the mom to deal with the situation.

But you are gossiping about a client of your daycare center. This is not ethical. It should be against your center policy. If I were the mother and I read this, I would be beyond livid. Its one thing when its a friend or stranger that you are judging, but this is a business relationship you are jeopardizing.


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## skolbut (Feb 18, 2008)

At the daycare I used to work at we saw this kind of thing all the time... lots of kiddos 'got' a fever just before lunchtime, right when their tylenol wore off... then mom or dad got a half a day of work in before having to go home (SO SAD). Our policy was out for 24 hours after being sent home for diahrea (sp?), vomiting, or fever over 100... BUT if we forgot to give the parent the slip that said so, inevitably they'd be back the next day. As a former working mom it is tough to find alternate care when your kiddo is sick, but sick is sick and you need to stay home. Some people don't. That's why we have cold/flu season.

FWIW, sometimes I would send ds to daycare when I had the day off to catch up on sleep, schoolwork, house cleaning, etc. We had to pay for him to go full time anyway, even if I took a day off. It just seemed to help to keep his routine steady and he always loved his home daycare.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sierra* 
So I don't really understand why the "daycare" (childcare) where your work didn't call the mom in after the second diahrea or the first vomit on the first day! That's shocking.

I don't understand either. It probably has to do with the fact the economy is crap and people here are getting laid off left and right.... which means they pull their kids out of daycare. All of our rooms are currently full, except the infant room. Which, until last week, wasn't even half full. That's a big chunk of income and I'm sure the director is trying not to piss off more parents.

Which is not right. At all.

We do have a rule that if your child needs tylenol they can't be at daycare (without a dr note- one of our babies had surgery and then came back still needing tylenol.... that was acceptable). If your child has a fever they can't be at daycare. If he's pooping alot or vomiting they can't be at daycare. And they're supposed to be fever/poopy/vomit free for 24 hours. Sometimes it's enforced, sometimes not. Unfortunately, when I do work mornings I don't usually work the infant room. I do work the infant room every afternoon. So yesterday I didn't know *D* was there until his mom was already gone.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
But you are gossiping about a client of your daycare center. This is not ethical. It should be against your center policy. If I were the mother and I read this, I would be beyond livid. Its one thing when its a friend or stranger that you are judging, but this is a business relationship you are jeopardizing.

I don't see it that way. I gave out no info on where the daycare is, what daycare it is, the kiddos name, the mom's name, etc. Maybe if she *did* read it, it would be a wake-up call.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skolbut* 
FWIW, sometimes I would send ds to daycare when I had the day off to catch up on sleep, schoolwork, house cleaning, etc. We had to pay for him to go full time anyway, even if I took a day off. It just seemed to help to keep his routine steady and he always loved his home daycare.

And this I have no problem with. If a parent has a day off and sends their HEALTHY kiddo to daycare, great. That's what I'm there for, afterall







We have a couple parents who told me yesterday they have the day off today but are dropping kiddos off so they can go shopping. Cool. Have fun! But if kiddo is ill, keep them home!


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

It sounds like your daycare needs clearer policies on sick children- like "no attendance for 24 hours after vomiting". But, with a 4mo, it can sometimes be hard to distinguish vomiting from "spitting up" or diarhea from "breastfed baby poop" (or the poop from hypoallergenic formula.)

As for giving the children's tylenol, it's really no more dangerous than the infant kind, provided she used an appropriate dose. It's really no more likely to give the wrong dose of children's rather than infant's tylenol, and the children's type is more dilute (dosages are given per teaspoon, not per dropperful.) So if she gave an 'infant tylenol dose" of "children's tylenol" then the baby got less medicine, not more.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
I agree that this wasn't the right way for the mom to deal with the situation.

But you are gossiping about a client of your daycare center. This is not ethical. It should be against your center policy. If I were the mother and I read this, I would be beyond livid. Its one thing when its a friend or stranger that you are judging, but this is a business relationship you are jeopardizing.

Oh, please.

After what that the mom did, having her business (sans her name and the name of the day care and any real identifying details) should be the last thing she's worried about.

I usually accept that there is a wide spectrum of parenting choices, but this was neglectful, period. In addition to not taking care of her sick 4-mos old, she knowingly and carelessly exposed all the other children. Which, if I had a baby there, would make me livid.

Knowing the baby had been clearly sick the day before, the mom should not have been allowed to leave hiim the next day. When she showed up, she should have been told to turn around and leave.

The mom may have PPD, but, if that's the case, she needs immediate help because she cannot endanger her baby or others.


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

I don't understand the attitude problem with the mom at all or why when she was off she couldn't come and get him. How sad and I worry about the mom and how she is coping as well.









I will say that I have been that "mom". I had two in daycare and they were sick all the time. I never worked more than 3 days a week. Sometimes I would do the cocktail so I wouldn't get fired. Well, it doesn't work too much and was fired, lost my home and am on food stamps. We tried in home daycare but she took my children without permission to her home and I came home to not knowing where my children were. And I suspected alcohol abuse.

That is why I decided to start a home business helping families that have to work and can't stay home for every fever or loose diaper. For single mothers and struggling parents. I do sick child care. I figure while mom would love to be there snuggling their baby/toddler, I know that baby needs to eat and be in a home.

Just a different perspective from someone who couldn't find a way to keep a job and have children in daycare and had to become more flippant than I wanted to so I could survive. There is probably a lot more to this story.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
I don't care if she is depressed or her pantyhose are too tight, you do not neglect a sick infant.

Poor baby.


This seems very glib to me... depression is a very serious medical issue with dire consequences for both mother and child - and should not be compared to pantyhose being too tight. It sound to me like this mom is either under-informed, overwhelmed, depressed or all three and should be treated with the same care and concern as any other hurting human being.


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## momtokea (Oct 27, 2005)

Wow. 4 months, poor baby.

Is there a father in the picture? Is the mother depressed?
Keep an eye on this little baby, it sounds like he is going to need someone looking out for him. Perhaps the mother needs some help/counselling/care.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cherie2* 
This seems very glib to me... depression is a very serious medical issue with dire consequences for both mother and child - and should not be compared to pantyhose being too tight. It sound to me like this mom is either under-informed, overwhelmed, depressed or all three and should be treated with the same care and concern as any other hurting human being.


You are right. It was meant to be a "spectrum of reasons" comment, not a comparison. I have had depression and anxiety attacks, so I should have worded it more carefully.

However, I see no reason to ever purposely neglect an infant. The mom was called and basically said "oh well". That torked me off.


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## RomanCarmelMom (Dec 2, 2008)

Next time that baby starts wheezing, please call an ambulance! And the next time the mother refuses to pick up her child, or to care for her sick infant, please call someone that can help her. It sounds like she needs either some parenting classes, or some extra support. If she's suffering from depression, it can keep her from bonding with her child, and keep her from properly caring for him. The support programs out there are created for moms like her, who need a break, or someone to help.


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Children's Tylenol for an infant? Did she maybe grab the wrong thing at the store thinking it was infant tylenol? Or if not, does she know the weight requirements for that and how that can seriously hurt her child?

Tylenol in massive doses can cause renal failure, liver function problems, internal bleeding, and a myriad of other nasty side effects. I'd maybe point that out politely and make it seem like maybe she picked up the wrong thing by accident.

Sounds like she's very nonchalant about her baby boy? Is she struggling, is it her first child? Is she frustrated and doesn't have a good support network? PPD maybe? I can't seriously see a mom being that unattached to her 4 month old baby boy...not without a good explanation.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

I guess what burn my buns on this is the "I don't give a crap" attitude by the mom. YOUR CHILD IS SICK, how much more plain does the daycare have to be? I have absolutely no experience with daycare, my girls have never been to a daycare, but geez, if a center calls multiple times, shouldn't your maternal instincts kick in there a little and go get the poor babe? Depression is a nasty beast to deal with, I hope she is ok, and someone needs to have a talk with her fast, otherwise the poor baby is going to be getting the brunt of this.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 

As for giving the children's tylenol, it's really no more dangerous than the infant kind, provided she used an appropriate dose. It's really no more likely to give the wrong dose of children's rather than infant's tylenol, and the children's type is more dilute (dosages are given per teaspoon, not per dropperful.) So if she gave an 'infant tylenol dose" of "children's tylenol" then the baby got less medicine, not more.

Oh, this is good to know. I don't have much experience with giving babies or older children tylenol so it just sounded bad.


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## 2pinks (Dec 20, 2007)

Poor baby. Maybe it was best that he was with someone who actually cared about him. I know when my older dd was in daycare that she had to be fever/diarrhea/vomit free for a FULL 24hrs before she was allowed to return. If you broke the rule, then they demanded a dr's note stating that the child was healthy to return. I know that not all parents have understanding bosses and believe me it sucks big time, but, that still doesn't give anybody the right to put other people's children at risk.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Is it possible she has PPD? Those sound like the actions of a mom who's not functioning well to me.

Do you have any information about PPD that you could give to all parents in the infant room so she wouldn't feel singled out?

This site has some really nice info about symptoms and treatments
http://www.babybluesconnection.org/about_ppd/index.htm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
She had no reason, as far as we know, not to come get her sick baby. I don't care if she is depressed or her pantyhose are too tight, you do not neglect a sick infant.

Poor baby.

Have you ever been depressed? Do you have any sense of how debilitating it is? Poor baby indeed, but that's exactly why PPD is SOOO dangerous and needs to be treated. PPD has LONG TERM consequences for both mother and child in terms of physical health, mental health and cognitive development.

IF the mother is depressed (she could just be horribly uncaring) she needs help.

As for the daycare, our HEALTH department mandates the rules whether a child can return to daycare. Any daycare who consistently violated those rules would probably be shut down. Are your directors aware of that?


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

Poor kiddo...

As an aside, my dr told me that I can give my infants CHILDRENS Tylenol so long as I half/quarter the dose. Like with Infants Tylenol the dose for a 4 mo old is roughly 40mL in the little dropper, 1/4 a tsp (a full tsp is 160mL of med) of Childrens Tylenol is the same dose. Infants Tylenol is just concentrated.

ETA- I don't know those numbers off the top of my head, I looked 'em up. LOL. I have to occasionally give my DD tylenol for teething.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I hate it when people do that because their kids are still contagious, this is one of the reasons kids get sick so often at daycares. At the daycares I have worked at they don't let kids come back to school until they have been fever free for at least 24 hours. If the parent brings the kid before that 24 hours is up they send them home again. Since you saw her giving tylenol, if your daycare has this policy you could have told her that she needs to wait until the medicine wears off and then 24 hours after that. One place I worked and two of the places I have had dd in also kicked people out of the daycare if they weren't there within an hour of being called twice ever.


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *One_Girl* 
I hate it when people do that because their kids are still contagious, this is one of the reasons kids get sick so often at daycares. At the daycares I have worked at they don't let kids come back to school until they have been fever free for at least 24 hours. If the parent brings the kid before that 24 hours is up they send them home again. Since you saw her giving tylenol, if your daycare has this policy you could have told her that she needs to wait until the medicine wears off and then 24 hours after that. One place I worked and two of the places I have had dd in also kicked people out of the daycare if they weren't there within an hour of being called twice ever.

Daycares aren't for working parents. The rules are good, don't get me wrong, but they aren't for real people trying to work. I have seen many daycares coming up with sick rooms for a higher fee (Gosh, I think I spent $200/day for an emergency nanny for sick days).

People are all trying to work, bring in sick kids who aren't washing their hands, every other kid gets sick and then all the other parents try to keep their jobs.

So sad, and now that the economy is even worse, it will only happen more and more.









There is a lot to say for other countries that support mothers and provide long term maternal leave, in office day-care, government subsidies and free health care. I think to see what is wrong with this country when it comes to mothers and children, this thread is a good example.

P.S This mother sounds like she is suffering from PPD. I can't imagine another reason that she would want to just lay at home and rest when her baby needed her. I hope she gets the support and help she needs from someone who sees the signs and actually cares.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
Is it possible she has PPD? Those sound like the actions of a mom who's not functioning well to me.

Do you have any information about PPD that you could give to all parents in the infant room so she wouldn't feel singled out?

This site has some really nice info about symptoms and treatments
http://www.babybluesconnection.org/about_ppd/index.htm

Have you ever been depressed? Do you have any sense of how debilitating it is? Poor baby indeed, but that's exactly why PPD is SOOO dangerous and needs to be treated. PPD has LONG TERM consequences for both mother and child in terms of physical health, mental health and cognitive development.

IF the mother is depressed (she could just be horribly uncaring) she needs help.

As for the daycare, our HEALTH department mandates the rules whether a child can return to daycare. Any daycare who consistently violated those rules would probably be shut down. Are your directors aware of that?


I am *fully* aware of depression and what it can do. I also corrected my original post. So you can spare the lecture.

I also know that still doesn't excuse her from blatantly ignoring her child's needs. I had anxiety attacks and depression a few years back. I still had to care for my kids. My husband worked and no one else could help me. It was horrible. I still deal with anxiety. But, we make too much for free help and no insurance. So, I just do what I have to do.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

I'd be hard pressed to not call CPS and I'm not one to call them for anything. I think you need to monitor this little guy, but I suspect sooner or later, you'll be making that call.


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## Asher (Aug 21, 2004)

Poor baby.







She sounds very selfish and self centered. I cannot imagine responding to that with "So?!", but then again, I'd have been in my car on the way to pick him up before I got off the phone!


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 

I also know that still doesn't excuse her from blatantly ignoring her child's needs. I had anxiety attacks and depression a few years back. I still had to care for my kids. My husband worked and no one else could help me. It was horrible. I still deal with anxiety. But, we make too much for free help and no insurance. So, I just do what I have to do.

No, it wouldn't excuse it, but it would fit in for PPD perfectly.

Feeling empty, sad and anxious
Feeling tired, having no energy
Trouble handling the usual responsibilities
Sleeping too much
Feelings of doubt, guilt, helplessness and worthlessness
Crying more that usual
Having no interest or joy in life
Marked changes in appetite
Extreme concern for/or lack of interest in your baby
Fear of harming yourself or baby
Strange thoughts or fantasies
Thinking about suicide and death

I have had GAD and the best thing for me was being around my children because I couldn't focus on my other issues. PPD though can manifest to an almost non-existant attachment (which is why it is important for mom to get help, for her baby and for her).

I would probably, gently as possible, ask mom how she is doing. After re-reading the story either she is a sociopath or is in the depths of PPD hell. The odds are for the latter.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *courtrn* 
poor little guy! but, maybe he was better off with you that day (i know that is not really the point..) but you were able to care for him, made sure he had his bum changed etc. do you think this would have been done by her in light of her behaviour?

And maybe the mom knew this. Perhaps she felt the daycare was the safest place for the baby that day.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cherie2* 
It sound to me like this mom is either under-informed, overwhelmed, depressed or all three and should be treated with the same care and concern as any other hurting human being.

I couldn't agree more.

I had severe PPD after the birth of my first child. When I read the OP, the first thing I thought was that the mom has PPD. There are lots of red flags. I know a lot of people here have said "poor baby" but my first thought was "poor mama."

I wouldn't write this woman off as a bad mother based on this single incident. She may need help in the worst way.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplemoon* 
I would probably, gently as possible, ask mom how she is doing. After re-reading the story either she is a sociopath or is in the depths of PPD hell. The odds are for the latter.

Yeah I agree with this.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

When I worked at a daycare, I had parents give me attitude about picking their kids up for 'just' a fever, "just" one puke, "just" constant diarrhea... Generally I would leave 2 messages, 2 hours apart. Then I would start down the list of emergency contacts. If none of those worked out, they'd get a call from the director saying they had 30 minutes to call her back and an hour to pick the kid up or else they would not be coming back.

And shockingly, yes, it did need to escalate to that point for the director to call several times. Once she said she was going to call 911 because this was for a 103 degree fever. Magically, the mom immediately called back.

And these were not working class families, either--all white collar tech folks, the only ones who could afford our fees.

The health department mandates that ill children can't be in care. Sadly, all the state protections in the world won't protect anyone from a crappy director.

So really as a worker, personally I think you should be more angry at the director, who is allowing this to go on and exposing all the babies in the baby room to god knows what. Also, now, I'm not saying anything bad about your co-worker here, but...I'd take what anyone says about their conversation with someone else with a grain of salt. I've seen a lot of workers who were total pushovers when it came to parents, especially those they were friendly with, or they wouldn't be assertive or get the director involved, in which case they were totally walked on, and then would get really passive-aggressively mad at the parents.

It sounds like most of what you describe is hearsay. And by the time that you get to the room, the director/lead should have stepped in assertively, but obviously they didn't. So there's a problem all the way around there.

You are a mandated reporter. You'll probably lose your job if you report though, independent of the director. Have you requested a confidental conference with the director to let them know that the lead is not enforcing the health policy with her friend? She can techically get into big trouble as far as licensing, and she so does not want to be the disease vector for some nasty bug affecting all the babies. I wouldn't assume that she knows about the apparent conversation with this family, or the lead's refusal to enforce policy.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplemoon* 
Daycares aren't for working parents. The rules are good, don't get me wrong, but they aren't for real people trying to work.

Actually, the rules are partially for the protection of working people. See, I know that a lot of illnesses may be contagious before children show symptoms, but many continue to be contagious right on through.

So, when a child shows up hacking all over the toys and other kids, or vomitting, or whatever, that really ups the chances of more kids getting sick. The more kids that are getting sick, the more working folks are going to face sending a sick kid to childcare or staying home from work.

I think those of us who work help take care of one another and help one another keep our jobs when we actually make a concerted effort to minimize the damage when our kids get sick.

Also, please bear in mind that childcare staff are also working people. When you knowingly expose them to illnesses, are you not also threatening their ability to earn a living?


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Poor baby. I vote for seeking some kind of help for the mom, too, if you can. Is there a Child Abuse Prevention Organization in your area? Could she get some help for PPD there?


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

This is a 4 month old baby who was *wheezing*, had a fever, vomitted, and had diarrhea?

May I ask why on earth your childcare director didn't call an ambulance??

Unless you think the 4 month old baby was have difficulty breathing because he was seeking attention (







), an ambulance should have been called and that baby should have received medical care immediately. There is something a little off about the director of this daycare center.


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## Ornery (May 21, 2007)

All I can say is that poor little one. My heart goes out to him.







It is so sad to hear about little ones that aren't taken care of.

I hope his mother gets the help she needs.


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sierra* 
Actually, the rules are partially for the protection of working people. See, I know that a lot of illnesses may be contagious before children show symptoms, but many continue to be contagious right on through.

So, when a child shows up hacking all over the toys and other kids, or vomitting, or whatever, that really ups the chances of more kids getting sick. The more kids that are getting sick, the more working folks are going to face sending a sick kid to childcare or staying home from work.

I think those of us who work help take care of one another and help one another keep our jobs when we actually make a concerted effort to minimize the damage when our kids get sick.

Also, please bear in mind that childcare staff are also working people. When you knowingly expose them to illnesses, are you not also threatening their ability to earn a living?

Of course! Sick kids shouldn't be exposed to the rest of the children. Here is the problem though, it isn't enforced for everyone like it should be.

Now, a great daycare would enforce if for all, but many daycares don't. As said previously, this child should not have spent so much time at the daycare before the mother was called again and again. Mentioned previously, friends of the daycare workers and director get a pass (and the ones that aren't buddy buddy get the sick kids to take home and they get sick again and again because Jilly is never asked to go home). Daycare workers have told me point blank that they never get to go home because it would violate the laws to be short one person so there child stays and gets everyone else sick.

I have such a bad taste in my mouth from my "high end" daycare that HAD to send a child home "sick" each day to not be breaching ratio's so they could make more money. I knew because my child did not have a crib! They said he liked sleeping on the floor (he did, that is fine) but somehow in the 8:1 ratio room a new child got his crib. So there were nine. So one had to go home every day. Many times I would go home with my very ill child who has no fever, no upset, and is playing happily and eating meals. While I was losing my job and all other centers had a 6 month waiting list and were rated more poorly than this center....

I know I am not objective at all, so while there is truth to what I say, I am also very bitter about the whole system, government system, and societal expectations for new mothers and employment. Take anything I say with a brick of salt. And know that I respect and adore good child care workers with morals and ethics.

If daycare was fair, then yes the system can work, if daycare's took precautions to clean and wash hands, then yes it can work.

Sadly, finding a good daycare can be like hitting the lottery in many communities. And we really need to have a longer maternity leave (side rant).

All of that has very little to do with the original post since this mom was clearly being neglectful and flippant with her infant, and hopefully she will find help.

But trust me, I am not the only woman nor will I ever be that had to pound the streets because the system doesn't work well.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

The baby was not at daycare today, which could be good and bad. Bad because he's probably pretty ill. Good because hopefully the mama kept him home and is giving him some TLC to help him get better. One can hope.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
So really as a worker, personally I think you should be more angry at the director, who is allowing this to go on and exposing all the babies in the baby room to god knows what. Also, now, I'm not saying anything bad about your co-worker here, but...I'd take what anyone says about their conversation with someone else with a grain of salt. I've seen a lot of workers who were total pushovers when it came to parents, especially those they were friendly with, or they wouldn't be assertive or get the director involved, in which case they were totally walked on, and then would get really passive-aggressively mad at the parents.

It sounds like most of what you describe is hearsay. And by the time that you get to the room, the director/lead should have stepped in assertively, but obviously they didn't. So there's a problem all the way around there.

You are a mandated reporter. You'll probably lose your job if you report though, independent of the director. Have you requested a confidental conference with the director to let them know that the lead is not enforcing the health policy with her friend? She can techically get into big trouble as far as licensing, and she so does not want to be the disease vector for some nasty bug affecting all the babies. I wouldn't assume that she knows about the apparent conversation with this family, or the lead's refusal to enforce policy.

Just for a little clarification- the director was not at the daycare yesterday. The assistant director leaves at 3:00. That leaves the rest of us to manage (director is available by phone if needed). The assistant director knew the baby was ill and knew we called the mom but left before the baby was picked up. After she leaves, I'm left to close the daycare.

The co-worker who called the mom is kinda a friend. The mom of the baby used to work at the daycare about a year ago. Shortly after she got pregnant she quit so she could work at a fast food restaurant. This particular co-worker knows a lot of people who work at this restaurant (her dh is a manager there). So there is kinda a connection, but she's not a "buddy buddy" friend.

I was standing right next to the co-worker when she called the mom both times. I don't doubt what was said.

I should also say that there is a communication difficulty. The mom in question is of a different background and speaks a different language. She speaks some English, enough for me to communicate with her somewhat. The co-worker who called her speaks the mom's language, which is why that co-worker called her and not me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtokea* 
Is there a father in the picture? Is the mother depressed?

Not sure about a father. I've not seen him or heard anything about him. As far as the mother being depressed.... until yesterday I would not have guessed it. The mom is usually very doting of the baby. Goes right to him and picks him up and talks to him.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RomanCarmelMom* 
Next time that baby starts wheezing, please call an ambulance!

I agree, and it's something in the back of my mind. However, my son is a wheezer. He has been since he was a young infant (had croup at 2 months old, which started the never ending wheezing. He's now been diagnosed with RAD and has an inhaler). I'm all to familiar with wheezing. I also know that sometimes it does clear up without intervention.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheal* 
Children's Tylenol for an infant? Did she maybe grab the wrong thing at the store thinking it was infant tylenol? Or if not, does she know the weight requirements for that and how that can seriously hurt her child?

I'm not sure if she got that on accident or not. Since she had her back turned I also do not know the dosage she gave him. It was in a dropper though, that's all I know.

Quote:

Sounds like she's very nonchalant about her baby boy? Is she struggling, is it her first child? Is she frustrated and doesn't have a good support network? PPD maybe? I can't seriously see a mom being that unattached to her 4 month old baby boy...not without a good explanation.
Like I said above, usually she's pretty attentive to him. It is her first baby. I don't know about support network. PPD? Possibly.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
Is it possible she has PPD? Those sound like the actions of a mom who's not functioning well to me.

Do you have any information about PPD that you could give to all parents in the infant room so she wouldn't feel singled out?

Possible, yes. That's a good idea. Either putting handouts in diaper bags or posting them on our board.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
I wouldn't write this woman off as a bad mother based on this single incident. She may need help in the worst way.

I don't plan on it. I am extremely frustrated with this particular parent, but I don't plan on giving up on it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer3141* 
This is a 4 month old baby who was *wheezing*, had a fever, vomitted, and had diarrhea?

May I ask why on earth your childcare director didn't call an ambulance??

Unless you think the 4 month old baby was have difficulty breathing because he was seeking attention (







), an ambulance should have been called and that baby should have received medical care immediately. There is something a little off about the director of this daycare center.

As I said above, director wasn't there. It was the assistant director who made the call not to call an ambulance. As I wrote above, I'm familiar with wheezing.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

StephandOwen said:


> Just for a little clarification- the director was not at the daycare yesterday. The assistant director leaves at 3:00. That leaves the rest of us to manage (director is available by phone if needed). The assistant director knew the baby was ill and knew we called the mom but left before the baby was picked up. After she leaves, I'm left to close the daycare.[/[/B]QUOTE]
> 
> No offense, but so what? Whether she's there or not, it's still her responsibility. Again, it's up to the director (or asst. director if she's not available) to set and *enforce* policy and state guidelines. Even if you leave at 3, you can still make a call and say "I'm sorry, but this is a serious situation. By law you must come pick up your child. Now." And record when a parent doesn't comply.
> 
> ...


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
No offense, but so what? Whether she's there or not, it's still her responsibility.

I agree. Definately not arguing on that one. I had a short talk with the assistant director today about it. Like I said before, I think it's an issue of not wanting to piss off a parent and risk them pulling their kiddo. I'm not saying it's right. But I really think it has something to do with it.

I'm also on somewhat of a "short leash" with the director right now, as I just called her at home on Friday night to tell her of another run-in I had with a kid and his mom. This one was totally justified though and I made it clear that if I'm threatened at work again I will not be working there any longer (5 year old boy actually threatened me when I asked him to sit down- because we were mopping the floor and didn't want him to fall- with telling me that "my daddy has a gun and will kill you".... twice). I made it very clear to the parent that it is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.... and then called the director to let her know. She was fully supportive of me and she and her husband had a talk with the mom.

Unfortunately the director is too nice for her own good sometimes and really doesn't want to upset others. This is where her dh comes in









Quote:

The only time I EVER remember every single parent coming to get their kid without a fuss when called was when our daycare preschool class plus a toddler class plus all those teachers got hit (pre-lunch, so it wasn't food poisoning) with gutbuster diarrhea simultaneously, and there was only 6 available stalls between them. I think that was probably the grossest day of my entire life, but everyone must have heard the panic in the director's voice when she called the parents, because they came immediately without a peep.








Yikes! I'm glad to have no experience with that one. Knocking on wood as we speak


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

Oh my gosh, that poor baby. That would have been a 911 call and a CPS call for me.


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## Right of Passage (Jul 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephandOwen* 
Like I said above, usually she's pretty attentive to him. It is her first baby. I don't know about support network. PPD? Possibly.

It could still be PPD, I suffered silently with PPD, and I was VERY attentive. To the point I stiffled DS#1 from forming bonds with other people from when he was a newborn up to about 6 months old.


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephandOwen* 

As I said above, director wasn't there. It was the assistant director who made the call not to call an ambulance. As I wrote above, I'm familiar with wheezing.

So you are familiar with wheezing in YOUR child at 4 months but previously this child hadn't been wheezing?

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't really care who was in charge or where the director was at that particular moment, this child needed medical attention and didn't get it.

I'm sure it would be hard for the director to lose a parent's income however, the death of the child would also result in a loss of income for this daycare center and the director has apparently forgotten that.









Jen


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## Kappa (Oct 15, 2007)

I don't know, if I was the mother, of course I would have picked up my baby and either cared for him myself or taken him to a doctor. But, with that said, I have a very healthy baby whose never even had a fever. But a friend of mine has a little girl who gets "sick" by the daycare's definition pretty frequently and she complains about how frequently she has to pick her up. She is a single mom, and having to go get your child because of what she said was really just a some teething symptoms can be annoying. As we on MDC know, taking your child to the doctor isn't always the answer, often they will prescribe antibiotics without doing any cultures for infection. Granted, I would have picked up my child in this situation, no questions, but I am not going to heap judgment on this mother. I'm sure the bug the baby has will pass, and everyone will be fine.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer3141* 
So you are familiar with wheezing in YOUR child at 4 months but previously this child hadn't been wheezing?

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't really care who was in charge or where the director was at that particular moment, this child needed medical attention and didn't get it.

I'm sure it would be hard for the director to lose a parent's income however, the death of the child would also result in a loss of income for this daycare center and the director has apparently forgotten that.









Jen

Yeah. There are two sides here. First, I'd be worried that this mom has PPD and isn't wanting to be neglectful, and my hope is that if CPS did get involved, they would look into that? I don't know much about CPS but I've heard scary things.

But the other side is that I would absolutely not want to be the person working at a day care center when a baby died. Especially not if my answer would be, "I was worried enough to call his mom a few times, and he wasn't breathing right, and I was worried enough to contact the director to talk about it, but I didn't actually call an ambulance." That would not go over well and I'd be afraid of being charged with negligent homicide or something. I mean, maybe it's the mom's fault for not taking it seriously, but she can argue that she didn't really understand just how serious it was, not seeing the baby herself. Too risky from a liability standpoint.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Yeah. There are two sides here. First, I'd be worried that this mom has PPD and isn't wanting to be neglectful, and my hope is that if CPS did get involved, they would look into that? I don't know much about CPS but I've heard scary things.

But the other side is that I would absolutely not want to be the person working at a day care center when a baby died. Especially not if my answer would be, "I was worried enough to call his mom a few times, and he wasn't breathing right, and I was worried enough to contact the director to talk about it, but I didn't actually call an ambulance." That would not go over well and I'd be afraid of being charged with negligent homicide or something. I mean, maybe it's the mom's fault for not taking it seriously, but she can argue that she didn't really understand just how serious it was, not seeing the baby herself. Too risky from a liability standpoint.

Oh I absolutely agree with this one! I feel very badly for the baby and if the mom has PPD I feel badly for her too.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
You are right. It was meant to be a "spectrum of reasons" comment, not a comparison. I have had depression and anxiety attacks, so I should have worded it more carefully.

However, I see no reason to ever purposely neglect an infant. The mom was called and basically said "oh well". That torked me off.

Sorry







I didn't mean to pick on you ... I was just feeling sort of defensive


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Tigerchild said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *StephandOwen*
> ...


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## Jojo F. (Apr 7, 2007)

Not to be a fear mongerer but, 4 months, wheezing- that constitutes as trouble breathing right? Could be something VERY serious like late onset of GBS disease, you never know...

I sincerely hope that babe is OK and that the mother gets help.


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## notneb (Aug 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
But the other side is that I would absolutely not want to be the person working at a day care center when a baby died. Especially not if my answer would be, "I was worried enough to call his mom a few times, and he wasn't breathing right, and I was worried enough to contact the director to talk about it, but I didn't actually call an ambulance." That would not go over well and I'd be afraid of being charged with negligent homicide or something. I mean, maybe it's the mom's fault for not taking it seriously, but she can argue that she didn't really understand just how serious it was, not seeing the baby herself. Too risky from a liability standpoint.









Sadly, this scenario played out about a year ago in a daycare in the next town over. It was tragic and devastating for everyone involved and I believe the daycare worker involved later faced criminal charges. Wheezing in a baby that young can get very serious very fast.


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## NikonMama (Jan 8, 2008)

As a comment for the children's tylenol...that is what I always gave my son. It is cheaper (the infant tylenol is much more expensive) and I just had to call the pharmacy for the correct dosage, which they are more than happy to give, and just gave that to him. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with giving an infant the "children's" tylenol, so long as you give the correct dose. The only difference between the "infant" and "children's" tylenol is that the "infant" type is concentrated, so it seems like you are giving less, but you really aren't.

For the daycare thing...maybe you should have had someone beside the mother's friend call and tell her to come get her kid. She might take it more seriously then. Her friend needs to stay out of it. The director or assistant director should have been the one to do it and actually done their jobs. If they are whoever talked to the parent are too afraid to stand up to the parents and demand they come get their child, then they need to find a different career. Also, maybe it should have been _*demanded*_, not suggested, that she come get the child. She should have never been given the option.

I've worked in childcare for years, and most everywhere I've ever worked had a clause in their contract stating that you had a certain amount of time after being contacted to come get your child, otherwise CPS would be called. Having sick child rules are just for inconveniencing a parent, it is to protect the other children and staff as well as to prevent other parents from having to miss work b/c one parent refuses to take responsibility for their child. Part of having a child in daycare is having to keep them home when they are sick. If you don't want to do that, get a nanny or stay home.


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## MrsAprilMay (Jul 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
At the preschool my son attended, this was not acceptable behavior, and would likely get you a visit from CPS.

Child care providers are mandatory reporters. If you suspect neglect/abuse, you must report it.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

You kno, yesterday I was talking to my best friend who babysits and this girl dropped her sick 2 yr old off. She was hacking, coughing and had a fever.. The mom knew this and said she'd be fine. Well, her symptoms got worse and she called the mom on the phone to tell her she needed to come pick up her child because my friend also has a son whom she doesn't want to get sick and told her to take her child to the er. The chick was very upset and really didn't care that her child was sick...after fighting about it, she came to pick her up and finally took her to the er and she had bronchitus!!!
Scarey huh?

Also, I get tired of telling people not to give infants OTCs. On another forum , especially this time of yr ppl are always asking " My 3 month old is congested what can I do" and there are tons of ppl suggesting all sorts of medicines. besides a doctors visit or the er (Fever, etc), there isn't much you can do .


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nursingmama05* 
It could still be PPD, I suffered silently with PPD, and I was VERY attentive. To the point I stiffled DS#1 from forming bonds with other people from when he was a newborn up to about 6 months old.









I suffered silently for 3 years with PPD until I was medicated for it.


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

I was thinking about this and I agree that the infant room should have a PPD poster. Who knows how many women you could help that way?

Also, if I was a parent at that daycare that my child was in the room with a wheezing, very ill child for that long, I would report them. I reported my old daycare and they are in the process of losing their license for their activities such as over populating the rooms and not sending friends kids or daycare workers kids home. Last time I checked there may also be criminal charges of neglect when they forgot to feed my child as well but that may be handled in civil court though, it is a long process for sure. And evidence is needed for the criminal charges which unless they admit it, won't stick.

I believe the only way to make daycares better is to bust them and make them a safe place for children. Otherwise, they will just want to keep their profits at the expense of children and families.

The director is the one that will get the flack, it is their job to enforce the rules, and a great way is to have non-friends call the parent and enforce it so innocent people aren't stuck with chronically ill children because they don't want to hurt feelings.

In this economy I wouldn't suggest an anonymous tip from the daycare worker because you never know, but in general, if your business is not following health code you can report them anonymously. Sometimes that is the best way to handle the situation.

The director will get called in and will then give strict instructions and they daycare worker, who is there for the children, won't be put in such a situation. And neither will the other children or the poor baby who needed medical attention.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Sierra said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
> ...


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## spottiew (Jan 24, 2007)

when i get that 'your kid is sick' call, i NEED to be told if i should pick them up ASAP, not return the next day, etc. because sometimes they call to say he's NOT fevery, just a bit 'off'... so then what? come? maybe? just TELL me what the issue is, and what the policy is... you saw him last, i need that info!


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplemoon* 
In this economy I wouldn't suggest an anonymous tip from the daycare worker because you never know, but in general, if your business is not following health code you can report them anonymously. Sometimes that is the best way to handle the situation.

The director will get called in and will then give strict instructions and they daycare worker, who is there for the children, won't be put in such a situation. And neither will the other children or the poor baby who needed medical attention.









Good advice. Thanks!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spottiew* 
when i get that 'your kid is sick' call, i NEED to be told if i should pick them up ASAP, not return the next day, etc. because sometimes they call to say he's NOT fevery, just a bit 'off'... so then what? come? maybe? just TELL me what the issue is, and what the policy is... you saw him last, i need that info!

That's true. I know some daycares call for every sniffle. We don't. If anything, we "under call". If we call you, you know your child really is ill.

The boy did turn out to have bronchitis. Mom kept him home for a few days then returned him. He seems to be fine now and we're all watching mom for signs of PPD. It seems that day was such a fluke though. Every other time we see her she's in a great mood, talks to the baby, loves on him, wants to know how he did that day, etc.


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplemoon* 
I don't understand the attitude problem with the mom at all or why when she was off she couldn't come and get him. How sad and I worry about the mom and how she is coping as well.









I will say that I have been that "mom". I had two in daycare and they were sick all the time. I never worked more than 3 days a week. Sometimes I would do the cocktail so I wouldn't get fired. Well, it doesn't work too much and was fired, lost my home and am on food stamps. We tried in home daycare but she took my children without permission to her home and I came home to not knowing where my children were. And I suspected alcohol abuse.

That is why I decided to start a home business helping families that have to work and can't stay home for every fever or loose diaper. For single mothers and struggling parents. I do sick child care. I figure while mom would love to be there snuggling their baby/toddler, I know that baby needs to eat and be in a home.

Just a different perspective from someone who couldn't find a way to keep a job and have children in daycare and had to become more flippant than I wanted to so I could survive. There is probably a lot more to this story.


I think that is a very admirable thing you are doing--helping sick infants and children. That is very sweet of you. You are very selfless and awesome in my eyes.

I do have a problem with that mother, though. Her attitude stinks worse than her son's soiled diapers. I also can't believe she would be so careless and neglectful, especiall if he had no more diapers. What did she expect, her son to sit in poop until she came because all the diapers are gone?

Please. Call CPS. It is obvious that something is very wrong. Depression or not, a helpless infant is being brutally neglected. She doesn't appear to be open minded--her bad attitude shows that when she picked up her baby in a huff. How do you know if she did not abuse him or do something to him after leaving your facility due to being angry. Never assume. Call CPS. I would not be so quick to call them if I could talk to her and she had a good attitude, but what she did to her baby is wrong. Perhaps, she should give it up if it is such a pain to her to raise him.

This is why I'm carefully planning mine. I actually WANT them!


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
Is it possible she has PPD? Those sound like the actions of a mom who's not functioning well to me.

Do you have any information about PPD that you could give to all parents in the infant room so she wouldn't feel singled out?

This site has some really nice info about symptoms and treatments
http://www.babybluesconnection.org/about_ppd/index.htm

Have you ever been depressed? Do you have any sense of how debilitating it is? Poor baby indeed, but that's exactly why PPD is SOOO dangerous and needs to be treated. PPD has LONG TERM consequences for both mother and child in terms of physical health, mental health and cognitive development.

IF the mother is depressed (she could just be horribly uncaring) she needs help.

As for the daycare, our HEALTH department mandates the rules whether a child can return to daycare. Any daycare who consistently violated those rules would probably be shut down. Are your directors aware of that?


Darn right she needs help. She needs it right now! Andrea Yates is a very good example of a case that goes untreated...


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Joyster* 
I'd be hard pressed to not call CPS and I'm not one to call them for anything. I think you need to monitor this little guy, but I suspect sooner or later, you'll be making that call.










I'm the same way. I do not call for everything, either, despite my very strong opinions on some things. I realize that parents will do things, even if I hate them, but I can't call CPS if someone doesn't do things my way. That is kind of dumb IMO. But, I can distinguish my very strong opinions about things from blaten neglect, which is what is going on here.


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephandOwen* 







Good advice. Thanks!

That's true. I know some daycares call for every sniffle. We don't. If anything, we "under call". If we call you, you know your child really is ill.

The boy did turn out to have bronchitis. Mom kept him home for a few days then returned him. He seems to be fine now and we're all watching mom for signs of PPD. It seems that day was such a fluke though. Every other time we see her she's in a great mood, talks to the baby, loves on him, wants to know how he did that day, etc.


Ok then, don't call CPS. I did not have this information before when I posted because I did not read the entire thread. I also understand PPD, but that should not go unsupervised if a baby is being neglected in the process. My BF has depression and anxiety, and we can deal wiht that, but he is by no means neglectful. He really loves kids. Depression and other mental problems should not be a basis to have CPS in the picture nor should it determine if people should be parents. But, if the parent is not fit and severely neglects the kid or is in danger of hurting it, that is when I become concerned. I have two friends who are bipollar and are good parents.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

:

This really makes me want to cry. That poor sick baby.


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## soccermama (Jul 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kirstenb* 
Oh that poor baby.







I know when my son is sick he wants to do nothing besides cuddling on the couch with me.

Does your daycare have rules for when kids are sick? I know my son's daycare will call parents for immediate pickup if their temp is over 100 degress, or if they vomit or have diarrhea. They also have to stay home the next day.









for that little baby. I just couldn't imagine. My DS is the same way. He's a snuggler even when he's not sick, but when I know he has a temp, I'm constantly checking it and feeling his forehead and looking in his eyes - Gosh, you just never what could happen or what could be going on with them when they are sick. It's scary.









Shame on that mother for not caring. She's obviously got her priorities in a complete cluster.


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## Purple*Lotus (Nov 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplemoon* 

I have such a bad taste in my mouth from my "high end" daycare that HAD to send a child home "sick" each day to not be breaching ratio's so they could make more money. I knew because my child did not have a crib! They said he liked sleeping on the floor (he did, that is fine) but somehow in the 8:1 ratio room a new child got his crib. So there were nine. So one had to go home every day. Many times I would go home with my very ill child who has no fever, no upset, and is playing happily and eating meals. While I was losing my job and all other centers had a 6 month waiting list and were rated more poorly than this center....

That is crazy! If they don't have enough staff for 9 kids, they should not sell that many slots







: I don't understand how they can just make random kids "sick" and send them home. That is playing with people's jobs and is just wrong. I'll get off my soapbox now









It sounds like the OP's center needs some pretty firm rules. As in, how long a parent has to come get a sick child (I don't expect you to drive erratically and get here in 5 minutes, but I do expect you to get here as soon as is safely possible, and if the child is vomitting, you must be there within the hour), how many days they have to stay home if they have a fevor and how high that fevor is before they have to stay out (at mine it is 101, and they must be fevor free for 24 hours, and that will vary as perhaps their fevor will go away soon or maybe it will linger) and when 911 needs to be called. For me, in my expirience managing the women's shelter- weezing = 911, all the time, no exceptions. I don't care if you have a car, the rule was that I had to place the call to 911. Wheezing is very serious and I would not mess around with that in the future. I would have probably called 911 as soon as I noticed the wheezing, then called Mom, then my director, in that specific order.

Basically though, I agree with the other posters in that a good director is essential. All of the parents must be treated equally, there should not be any playing favorites. And where I work, if a worker has a child of their own there, they DO go home if their kid is sick. However, I am blessed that we are actually overstaffed. So thankfully, we always have several extra floaters that can fill in if a worker needs to leave for their own or their child's illness. I understand that perhaps other centers are not that lucky, however, making random kids go home to keep your ratios is ridiculous.







: You need to call someone in or work out a better arrangement.

And I also feel for that baby







My friend had PPD and seeing her go through it was heart wrenching. I recognized the signs and I was able to encourage her to get the help she needed and she is now thriving and bonding with her LO. So there is light at the end of the tunnel, but it is so important for that Mother to feel supported in this to get the help that she needs.


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## BunnySlippers (Oct 30, 2007)

I think he was better off staying with you guys


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplemoon* 
I have such a bad taste in my mouth from my "high end" daycare that HAD to send a child home "sick" each day to not be breaching ratio's so they could make more money. I knew because my child did not have a crib! They said he liked sleeping on the floor (he did, that is fine) but somehow in the *8:1 ratio room* a new child got his crib. So there were nine. So one had to go home every day. Many times I would go home with my very ill child who has no fever, no upset, and is playing happily and eating meals. While I was losing my job and all other centers had a 6 month waiting list and were rated more poorly than this center....

Was that even a legal ratio? I know it differs by state, but I'm not sure any are that high for an infant room. In Kentucky you can only have 5 infants (defined as under 12 months old) to 1 adult. You can have kids older than 12 months too, but the ratio goes by the youngest child. So you can have one 11 month old and 4 children who are older than 12 months. Once the youngest child is 12 months you can have 6 children (12+ months) to 1 adult. If all your children are 24+ months you can have 10 children to 1 adult.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplemoon* 
I would probably, gently as possible, ask mom how she is doing. After re-reading the story either _she is a sociopath or is in the depths of PPD hell_. The odds are for the latter.

I thought this as well.


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## SamuraiMom (Nov 7, 2006)

Just jumping in here after reading through the thread. Is it possible this mom has a hard time dealing w/ illness? She may not "know what to do", so she turns her back, IYKWIM. I know that most of us would automatically scoop up our sick children and do what has to be done, but you say she is a first time mom, maybe sickness scares her. Just a thought.


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