# I was so shocked..I snapped at her...oops



## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I just snapped at my daughter's friend. She's 13. She came home after school with my daughter. I know they were hungry and of course they had a snack.

My 4.5 year old had some left over fries from a happy meal. so she wanted her fries heated up.

so she moves away from the bag and immediately the kid takes a fry from the bag...I'm a bit taken aback, she's a visitor but it's one fry so I let it go.

A few minutes later I turn around and she has a full handful(maybe more than half of what my daughter had in the bag in her hand and was cramming them in her mouth.

I said "Don't take the little girl's fries!" in a shocked, sorta angry voice.

She says "but they are so good"

and I said "but they are NOT yours, you don't take a little kid's snack"

I was just so shocked. I can't imagine any scenario where my 13 year old would do this, especially in someone elses home.

She's invited to dinner, she had a snack.

I probably spoke a bit too angrily but it slipped out before I could stop. I was just so shocked.

I think my kids were too..they never hear that

I'm kind of sorry, but not really...geesh


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## fiorio (Aug 30, 2006)

If you had spoken like that to a 4 year old, yeah that would be out of line. But a 13year old should know better than to take someone else's food.


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

Well, my dd is just about your little one's age and she would be really upset if someone took her snack.
On the other hand, why did you only get the little one McDonalds? To us, that's a BIG treat. It's seems rude to have a treat for one kid and not the others--even if the others are big girls.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I probably would've reacted the same way. A kid that age knows better than to take another person's food without asking.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I can't imagine a 13yo NOT asking first before eating something. Sheesh- she really is old enough to know better.

As for why only the little one had fries from a fast food place- I imagine they're leftovers from lunch that was eaten while the older girls were in school. I don't see the big deal in heating up fries for a 4yo while offering something different for the big kids. I wouldn't heat up food in front of another 4yo without sharing them, but I'd expect teenagers to be OK with eating something different from a preschooler.


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
I can't imagine a 13yo NOT asking first before eating something. Sheesh- she really is old enough to know better.

As for why only the little one had fries from a fast food place- I imagine they're leftovers from lunch that was eaten while the older girls were in school. I don't see the big deal in heating up fries for a 4yo while offering something different for the big kids. I wouldn't heat up food in front of another 4yo without sharing them, but I'd expect teenagers to be OK with eating something different from a preschooler.


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
I can't imagine a 13yo NOT asking first before eating something. Sheesh- she really is old enough to know better.

As for why only the little one had fries from a fast food place- I imagine they're leftovers from lunch that was eaten while the older girls were in school. I don't see the big deal in heating up fries for a 4yo while offering something different for the big kids. I wouldn't heat up food in front of another 4yo without sharing them, but I'd expect teenagers to be OK with eating something different from a preschooler.

I will take it that you know better on this one. I only have a little kid and so I have no idea what to expect out of thirteen-year-olds.


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

Besides, reheated fries are not "sooo good" - so She's lying.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2mygirl* 
I will take it that you know better on this one. I only have a little kid and so I have no idea what to expect out of thirteen-year-olds.

Having been 13, I can say with confidence that a 13 year old can use enough self-control not to eat the 4 year old's food. Sheesh.


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
Having been 13, I can say with confidence that a 13 year old can use enough self-control not to eat the 4 year old's food. Sheesh.

Well, apparently I'm just an idiot. How disappointing.


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## mama_ani (Aug 2, 2007)

My goodness, a 13 year should most definitely know better. Even my 10 year old knows better than to take food from a little kid.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2mygirl* 
Well, my dd is just about your little one's age and she would be really upset if someone took her snack.
On the other hand, why did you only get the little one McDonalds? To us, that's a BIG treat. It's seems rude to have a treat for one kid and not the others--even if the others are big girls.

They were her leftovers. Other kids had no leftovers. But sometimes I have the little ones out with me and we eat lunch out and big kids are in school. The big kids understand. Sometimes they get to go out for lunch from school and little ones don't get to go...it's all good.









Visiting kid was not expected.

I think what ticked me off was I could kind of tell she was "sneaking" kwim. And I was just so shocked. And we don't know her. Some of the kids come here and we know them so well, for years, and they get themselves a drink etc. I was just surprised at my own reaction..I'm usually very careful about how I treat their friends.

I've calmed down now and think that my reaction was perfectly human. I was just so shocked.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Apricot* 
Besides, reheated fries are not "sooo good" - so She's lying.









I know uh, blech!


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## zipworth (Jun 26, 2002)

I would have reacted the same way. That's just plain rude







:.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I've calmed down now and think that my reaction was perfectly human. I was just so shocked.

I think it was perfectly human, too!









I've also felt a little bent-out-of-shape, when I've occasionally overheard (or dd has told me about) friends of my 7yo asking her to show them what other foods we have in the house. This, after I've set out all the foods that dd and visiting friends can help themselves to during a playdate.

Usually dd just has one friend over at a time, and then she and her friend will often prepare snacks together -- but when she used to have 3 sisters coming a lot, and they were constantly asking for things to eat -- I just got in the habit of talking with dd ahead of time and planning out the snacks, and having things like fruit, bread, and peanut butter and honey out on the table, and sippy cups with ice-water, and would just tell them to help themselves to the stuff on the table whenever they got hungry.

Dd normally eats free-range, but she understood about having it planned out for the 3 friends (and was willing to eat the same foods herself while they were here), because otherwise her friends wanted to go hog-wild, and consume huge amounts of cereal and milk (and any snack-foods we had), so we'd end up running out before dh's next payday.

So we'd plan it out, and they knew what was there for them (and their mom usually sent some food, too)-- but they still wanted to rummage and try to get into other stuff. At least dd was smart enough to back me up on it. She was puzzled that they were so interested in food, because to her, playdates are so much fun, she can often play for hours without giving a thought to her stomach.

I found it irritating (the sneakiness of asking dd when I was somewhere else in the house), even though they were nowhere near the age of your dd's friend. I think in their case, they were used to the kitchen being "closed" except at certain times, and their parents are more crunchy than we are, so it was a big deal to them to see a box of cheezits or graham crackers, or a bag of Sunchips.

I guess it's just fun to look into other people's cabinets -- and maybe they had no intention of swiping anything.

All that to just say -- yes, a 13yo is old enough to know not to steal a little girl's food. And it's not your responsibility to make sure that whenever your 13yo _unexpectedly_ has a friend over, you have leftover french fries for the friend if you have some for your 4yo. That's not even your responsibility if you know the friend is coming.

I'm surprised she was so blase about the whole thing! I would've been humiliated to be caught out by someone else's mom at that age -- and for her to just say, "But they are so good" as if it was the most normal thing in the world, that sounds kinda freaky to me. It makes me wonder what she'd snatch when no one else is looking!

Edited to Add: I don't know why that party-icon is at the top of my post, and I don't know how to edit it out, either.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I had to really talk to my 13 year old about her friends who were twins who would be here all the time for dinner...it was really crazy.

They would eat after school, expect to stay for dinner and basically invite themselves. One time they were here and I didn't know(playing outside) and I called my daughter in and her friend came too..and I'm really confused and she's like "oh, well I played too long and now I've missed dinner at my house" and i said "I am very sorry but we don't have enough" and she stomped out the door.

I said to my daughter "did you invite her for dinner without asking me" and she said "no, I thought she was going home"

So to ward off any miscommunication one day sophia was playing in the backyard with a neighbour's kid and I said to her friend. "we have a rule that at dinner time kids have to go eat but when you are finished if your mom says you may come back to play" so she went home.

A few days later my neighbour stopped me and said "H. told me you have this GREAT rule at your house about how kids eat at their own houses and then can come back" and she told me how in her last neighbourhood she used to feel so bad because there were always kids who would loiter around at dinner time and she would feel compelled to feed them. She didn't think they were actually starving or anything since it was a really kind of well-to-do neighbourhood..she just didn't know how to tell them to go home.

So we now have a neighbourhood rule







(I'm in a brand new subdivision in a small town) and the neighbour moms are all on board with it.

Of course if I actually suspected a child was hungry..I'd be feeding that kid.

I mentioned the behaviour to my 13 year old about the fries and I said "you wouldn't do that would you" and she was like "I'd starve first" and I do believe she would.


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## ryleeee (Feb 9, 2005)

holy smokes. i am APPALLED that that girl 1) took your 4 YEAR OLDS SNACK and 2) said "but they are soooooo good!"

seriously appalled.
you handled it much better than i would have, i'll tell you right now.


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

does this kid not have any siblings? my DH was an only child and is still weirded out by "food rules" that I find normal b/c growing up with my sister, we would guard our special treats like coyotes







Like, if there are two blueberry muffins, he doesn't get that you don't eat both for breakfast- and he actually doesn't even mind if I eat both- he has no selfishness about food at all, because he never had to fight anyone for it- and therefore he doesn't get that anyone would care. I had to teach him that if I buy a special treat we have to divvy it up. And he's 30. (my best friend is also an only child who is the same way and no, I'm not picking on onlies)

But- it's still weird, b/c most 13 yr olds know not to take food in someone else's house without asking or being offered. but it might explain it a little.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
So we now have a neighbourhood rule







(I'm in a brand new subdivision in a small town) and the neighbour moms are all on board with it.

I like that!

Now I wish I could figure out a tactful way to start a new rule about kids getting drinks and using the restroom in their own houses -- when everyone's playing outdoors, and going home just involves taking a few extra steps (certainly I have no problem with sharing our water/restroom if someone's playing *inside* our house).

When my own dd's playing in our neighbors' yards, she automatically dashes back home to take care of these needs -- because I want her to stay within my sight while she's playing anyway, since I don't yet feel comfortable with her going into any of our neighbors' houses when I'm not with her.

Plus even when I do feel comfortable, I think it's still better for her to come home to care for these needs.

But the neighbor kids often want to use our restroom, or want me to go get them drinks.

I think I'll try the tack of explaining that since I'm outside watching everyone, I really don't want kids (except for my own) going into our house when I can't be in there, and also that I don't feel like going in and out all the time to get drinks for people (both of which are true) ... "So, honey, why don't you just dash home to get that drink/use the restroom, and come on back as soon as you're done?"

Does that sound nice enough? I hope I'm not taking things off-track, but it seemed applicable since we're basically talking about how to deal kindly with our children's friends.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

absolutely...when all the kids are playing out in front..they all go home to get drinks and use the bathroom unless I see a kid doing a serious potty dance.

If a child has been invited specifically for a "playdate" that's different but if the play area has just kind of randomly become my front yard or the neighbour's sidewalk then the kids have to come home for drinks/snack/bathroom. We do have 2 kids accross the way who would ask for drinks and I said pretty much what you quoted so they happily skipped along to get a drink at their own house.

I would expect you to say something like that to my dd.

Now in the case of the older kids..their friend's live further away so of course they are welcome to water and to use the bathroom....(but not to juice and milk).

I have 4 kids..it's like a full-time battle keeping milk and juice in the house and I simply can't afford to have several teen girls who are not my own drinking it all.

I think gentle neighbourhood boundaries are excellent. I also have a no ringing the doorbell before 10am because we had some kids who were showing up at 7am and waking us up...


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## ruhbehka (Nov 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I had to really talk to my 13 year old about her friends who were twins who would be here all the time for dinner...it was really crazy.

They would eat after school, expect to stay for dinner and basically invite themselves. One time they were here and I didn't know(playing outside) and I called my daughter in and her friend came too..and I'm really confused and she's like "oh, well I played too long and now I've missed dinner at my house" and i said "I am very sorry but we don't have enough" and she stomped out the door.
rd off any miscommunication one day sophia was playing in the backyard with a neighbour's kid and I said to her friend. "we have a rule that at dinner time kids have to go eat but when you are finished if your mom says you ma
I said to my daughter "did you invite her for dinner without asking me" and she said "no, I thought she was going home"

So to way come back to play" so she went home.

Wow, that's so interesting to me. I can't imagine not inviting someone (of any age or relationship) to stay for dinner if they seemed reluctant to leave, or dinner hour was approaching, or whatever. But then, I guess we like having extra guests for dinner.









I don't know, I guess it just doesn't seem like a big deal to cook up some extra rice or cook a bag of frozen veggies to stretch out the meal. (And we're a gluten-free, dairy-free house, so it's not that I don't understand the expense!)


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ruhbehka* 
Wow, that's so interesting to me. I can't imagine not inviting someone (of any age or relationship) to stay for dinner if they seemed reluctant to leave, or dinner hour was approaching, or whatever. But then, I guess we like having extra guests for dinner.









I don't know, I guess it just doesn't seem like a big deal to cook up some extra rice or cook a bag of frozen veggies to stretch out the meal. (And we're a gluten-free, dairy-free house, so it's not that I don't understand the expense!)

Really? Under any circumstances?

I couldn't have invited anyone if I just didn't have enough food.

But since i had cooked just enough for my rather large family and had it dished on plates ready to eat there wasn't a whole lot I could do. I was hungry too. I don't want to cook more food. I wanted to eat.

It's a school night and I have to eat dinner, bathe children, supervise them doing homework, put them to bed all by myself because my dh works away. My life is hectic, busy and stressful.

Did I mention I have 4 kids ranging from two until 17..all girls hence the moniker...they talk a lot..and loudly...

did I also mention we can't afford to feed 2 extra 13 year old girls regularly. We are far from poor but I am careful with our money.

Did I also mention that we do have them for dinner, when it's planned and they have been invited in time for me to prepare food?

I also don't see why I should have 2 13 year old girls(did I mention there were 2 of them, though only one came into the house) over for dinner that literally live 8 houses down the street and their mother has cooked dinner for them but they didn't bother to go home because they assumed they could just eat at my house.

I just get too tired for that. One thing I have to do to make this family run smoothly is to know intimately my own limitations and boundaries.

We often say that our children should be set up for success.

I have worked really hard to set myself as a parent up for success as well.

I have 5 people sitting around the table eating 3 times a day and when dh is home I have 6. I'm good.









But if you can do it, knock yourself out. I know people who can.

None of them are me

(Something about my previous post is mixed up..I've got two stories in one there, or the wrong kid listed..going back to fix that)

oh..it's just the way you quoted. It's sort of mixed up. can't fix that.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ruhbehka* 
Wow, that's so interesting to me. I can't imagine not inviting someone (of any age or relationship) to stay for dinner if they seemed reluctant to leave, or dinner hour was approaching, or whatever. But then, I guess we like having extra guests for dinner.









From your siggy it looks like you just have one young son so far -- so maybe you haven't quite been in the OP's shoes?

Personally, I *can* imagine not inviting people to stay for dinner, even if they seem to be wanting to stay.

Here's one example. I have a friend with three children ages 7 and under, and she often gets stressed out and wants a place to hang out with her kids, where they can play with different toys and so on. Her family is low-income, similar to my family. Whereas I take snacks if we're visiting another family for more than a couple hours, she doesn't.

Of course, I prefer having our home be the central place for my dd's playdates, and dd also prefers having friends here rather than going much to other homes. So I accept that I'll be providing more than my "share" of snacks, in exchange for the convenience of having people come here, and even more importantly, in exchange for the privilege of getting to know dd's friends and getting to help her with various situations that come up.

Well, as to my friend with three kids, I'm prepared to provide a snack, and I've learned that what works best is to invite them for a specific time-period, such as from 2 to 5, and explain that when dh gets home he'll be tired and will want the house quiet.

I have to be this clear, because otherwise this friend seriously doesn't get it. We'd arrange a time for maybe late morning, and then sometimes she'd call at 8am and say they'd been up since 6, and she was getting really stressed, and they were all in the car and could they come now?

Then they'd come hang out for _hours_ sometimes. So the snack I'd provided would be exhausted, then the kids would be whining about how hungry they were, and trying to pull stuff of my fridge, and the mom would be saying, "Honey, you can't eat food in other people's houses 'til it's offered."

One day, my dh wasn't feeling well and came home from work early. He knew they were coming over, but was really expecting that they'd leave by dinnertime. And I expected it, too. It was a rather tiring visit, and then they weren't showing any signs of wanting to leave at dinnertime.

So I headed into the kitchen and started fixing dinner, and my friend asked if she was in the way, and I said, "No, we can visit a little more, but pretty soon we'll be eating dinner." I thought I was pretty clear (without being downright rude) -- but I guess I hadn't said, "Pretty soon _you need to leave_ so we can eat dinner." So she didn't get it.

At one point, dh overheard her telling her dd to come ask me if she could spend the night at our house. I had no idea the girl's mom had put her up to it, but told the little girl we'd do it some other time, because my dh was really tired. Apparently my friend's husband wanted her to come with him for his evening job, and expected her to drop the kids off at a relative's, but the dd doesn't like going to this particular relative's, so her mom was trying to work it out for her to stay with us.

At one point I came into the room where she was on the phone with her dh, and heard her asking her dh if he'd eaten, and she said she and the kids hadn't eaten yet -- and apparently her dh asked her if they were eating with us, because she looked at me and said, "Well, she hasn't asked me yet."

I finally just said, "We need to say goodnight now." I explained that my toddler was really messy and I needed to take her up and give her a bath, and then we needed to eat ... and my friend was offering to keep an eye on my older dd so she could keep playing in the yard while we were upstairs ... and I was like, no, we're just *all* going to go upstairs.

My friend finally got it, and called her kids together and announced that she was taking them to their relative's and would get them at noon the next day, and the kids were crying, and I felt very sad for them, but was absolutely spent myself and didn't feel in a position to solve their problem.

Later on, I remembered that my friend had been asking me about how to apply for Food Stamps, because she knew we'd gotten them in the past -- so I'm supposing they were short on food. If I hadn't been so stretched, and felt pulled in so many directions at that moment, I could have offered her a few cans of food, and maybe a box of mac-n-cheeze to take home and feed her kids.

But we didn't have a ton of food ourselves. We're glad about dh's raise, but it wasn't enough to really replace the loss of the Food Stamps. We still always have enough to eat (because it's a priority and we plan well to make sure the girls are fed), but it would definitely strain our budget to start regularly providing meals for other families. I'm also not willing to put undue stress on dh, when he works hard to take care of us, and is tired and just wants to be with us in the evenings.

So I agree with the OP that you should feel free to knock yourself out if you, and your whole family, really enjoy this kind of thing -- but I can certainly understand the OP's need to draw a few lines. Especially when the child was just saying that she'd missed her family's dinner-time, which I guess meant that she'd -- gasp -- have to warm up a few leftovers.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

mammal_mama...that is exactly the kind of situation I am trying to avoid by putting the boundaries in place now.

I have only so much patience in my reserve. I have to use that for the children I have.

I have to do these things for my children and myself. I count too.l

I have clearly defined boundaries. I have to have peace too. I have to be able to sit at the table and eat. I have to have quiet time.

yes, I can have people over for dinner, and quite enjoy it. For me it's about knowing my own limitations and putting safe guards in place so that I am not stretched to the limit.

There is also the simple logistics of it all. When I have to have people over we need extra chairs brought up from the basement, it's a whole process. More dishes..have to run dishwasher at night instead of after breakfast because of it being fuller..etc. it's a BIG deal.

When the kids do have one of their friends over the rule is that kid with the friend has to clean up from dinner(the friend may help but doesn't have to as they are a guest) load the dishwasher, clean the kitchen, etc.

For some strange reason this has dramatically cut down on the number of kids that eat over now


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I have only so much patience in my reserve. I have to use that for the children I have.

I have to do these things for my children and myself. I count too.l

I have clearly defined boundaries. I have to have peace too. I have to be able to sit at the table and eat. I have to have quiet time.

yes, I can have people over for dinner, and quite enjoy it. For me it's about knowing my own limitations and putting safe guards in place so that I am not stretched to the limit.

Yes, I totally agree!

For me to never say anything, and just keep accommodating people who seem way more obtuse than most people of their age group, would be setting myself up for burnout and a big blowup.

I.e. a 13yo who'd just help herself to a little kid's fries, and a kid who'd say, "I missed dinner at my house" as if that obligated you to feed her, are probably going to need something more direct than a gentle hint when they start over-stepping boundaries. Kind of like my friend who seemed to not get all my polite attempts to let her know that it was time for her to take her tired, hungry kids home and feed them.

So what might be rude treatment for most people, is probably necessary for some individuals, who simply won't get it unless you spell it out for them. To my way of thinking, in the long run it's kinder to spell it out for them, than it is to just reach the point where we have to terminate the relationship.

And if you hadn't said anything to the 13yo girl about the fry-snatching, she'd likely think it was fine with you, and act like even more of a jerk the next time. Which could create an even greater annoyance, and possibly require a much stronger response. I honestly can't think of any better way to let her know that her behavior was unacceptable, than by saying exactly what you said.

I don't mean to go on and on, but it seems like "friend etiquette" is something I'm increasingly thinking about as my oldest (now 7) is increasing her desire for friends. For instance, I want neighbor kids to feel welcome coming over to play with my 7o -- but it's hard when they have to bring their toddler brothers and sisters along. My toddler's still somewhat aggressive with other toddlers (though she's gradually growing in this area), so when other toddlers are here, I feel like I'm on double-duty, making sure my toddler doesn't beat the other baby up.

But I don't know of any way to stop the toddlers from coming without offending people, and making it so that my older dd loses playmates. I console myself by remembering that in a short time, my toddler will have a need for more friends, too, so the time I'm putting in now will pay off because she'll already have a group of little friends.

Still, I can't imagine ever having my dd take her little sister, who's *five years younger* than she is, along on a playdate. So it seems a little bizarre that other moms think this practice is okay. I mean, even if you know the other family has a toddler, too -- it's not like the two toddlers are just going to go off and be jolly together like the two 7yo's. Toddlers are a whole different ballgame.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I only have one child and I can't just have extra people stay for dinner without notice. I cook enough for two adults and one child. I don't usually have enough extra unless I've planned ahead of time

Anyway, I don't think expecting that someone is simply going to be able to have an unexpected guest stay for dinner at any given time is fair.


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## bl987ue (Mar 14, 2006)

I'm boggled at the parents that would think it is acceptable to just turn a toddler loose to be "supervised" by a 7 year old. And the fact that they are coming over to your house means that they are expecting you to provide free babysitting. Yikes!

I like the rule that kids who stay for dinner have to help with cleanup! I'm definitely going to use that when H's friends get big enough to come for dinner.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bl987ue* 
I'm boggled at the parents that would think it is acceptable to just turn a toddler loose to be "supervised" by a 7 year old. And the fact that they are coming over to your house means that they are expecting you to provide free babysitting. Yikes!

I agree! Since the older kids are kids my 7yo really wants to play with, I usually accommodate because I know the older kids likely couldn't come otherwise. But when I feel it's time to give myself a break, I'm pretty straightforward about saying, "Thanks for coming! In about 10 minutes we need to say goodbye, because Daddy's coming home and we're going to eat (or whatever's about to happen)."

In the interests of providing my older dd with the huge extensive social network that she craves (and it's likely my toddler will someday want the same thing), I realize that sometimes I do need to be accommodating even when I feel the other parent's taking advantage. In a way, they're really taking advantage of their older child by always insisting that the baby tag along. So if they'll do it to their own child, then why wouldn't they do it to me?

So I'm learning to tread the fine line of being hospitable so kids will want to come here, without becoming a doormat and ending up bitter and resentful. Basically, the key is remembering that no one can take advantage of me without my permission. If I choose to let people cross certain lines, it should only be because I'm happy enough with the trade-off, that it's worth it to me and my family.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fiorio* 
If you had spoken like that to a 4 year old, yeah that would be out of line. But a 13year old should know better than to take someone else's food.









:


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ruhbehka* 
Wow, that's so interesting to me. I can't imagine not inviting someone (of any age or relationship) to stay for dinner if they seemed reluctant to leave

Since anyone who would invite themselves to dinner that way is rude, I certainly wouldn't want to spend any time with them, let alone feed them.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ruhbehka* 
Wow, that's so interesting to me. I can't imagine not inviting someone (of any age or relationship) to stay for dinner if they seemed reluctant to leave, or dinner hour was approaching, or whatever. But then, I guess we like having extra guests for dinner.









I don't know, I guess it just doesn't seem like a big deal to cook up some extra rice or cook a bag of frozen veggies to stretch out the meal. (And we're a gluten-free, dairy-free house, so it's not that I don't understand the expense!)

FWIW, I meal-plan pretty tightly, and yes, it would be a big deal some nights to produce enough extra to feed *two* teenage girls on *no* notice. If I have a friend over and it looks like its going to evolve into dinner, I can usually come up with stretchers, or I'll scrap my planned dinner and skip ahead to one that will stretch more easily or divide more neatly.

But in a case like this, if I had already cooked dinner and dished it out, I could not always come up with meal stretchers in an instant, especially if the meal has been planned around discrete objects of food (hot dogs, say, or chicken breasts). If it were soup night I could probably water it down and cut more bread, but often I buy just enough salad greens for the proposed meal, or there aren't enough tortillas in the package to make more burritos, or I'm *already* stretching the meat out by slicing it thin and spreading it across multiple salads or fajitas.

Add to that the fact that most of DS's friends who might do this are also the type for whom extra rice and extra veggies wouldn't cut it as a meal, and yeah, having two extra teenage girls show up would not be easy.


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## gsd1amommy (Apr 6, 2007)

I keep coming back to this post and I keep thinking about it since it has been posted. I don't understand snapping at anyone about food. If embarrassing her to get your point across was what you hoped to accomplish, I'll bet you got it done. You said she is a new friend of your daughter's so I'm wondering how well you know her, know her situation. Maybe there are issues you don't know about her that could have gotten in the way of her judgement about the fries. Just wondering.
"And if you hadn't said anything to the 13yo girl about the fry-snatching, she'd likely think it was fine with you, *and act like even more of a jerk the next time*." Pretty harsh assessment of a child you don't know, of a situation where all the details are unavailable to you.
I say all of this because I have seen, at my son's school, these things...
A kindergartner who literally poked hunks of cheeseburger into his mouth and down his throat, without chewing a bite, because he is so hungry.
Another kindergartner stuffing his lunch sack with scraps leftover from his friends lunches during a field trip because he and his sister will be "hungry tonight".
The 2-3 backpacks sitting outside the classrooms doors on Friday afternoons, cleverly disguised as "reading enrichment" bags which really contain food to get some students and their siblings through the weekend.
So I'm looking at hungry kids a bit differently I guess. I realize the child in question was 13 and everyone thinks she should have known better but what if she really doesn't? What if she's hungry and embarrassed and doesn't know how to tell you? What if there really is a problem at home and she wants to tell you but now that you have snapped at her and made her feel like a jackass and now she can't tell you anything?


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gsd1amommy* 
I keep coming back to this post and I keep thinking about it since it has been posted. I don't understand snapping at anyone about food. If embarrassing her to get your point across was what you hoped to accomplish, I'll bet you got it done. You said she is a new friend of your daughter's so I'm wondering how well you know her, know her situation. Maybe there are issues you don't know about her that could have gotten in the way of her judgement about the fries. Just wondering.
"And if you hadn't said anything to the 13yo girl about the fry-snatching, she'd likely think it was fine with you, *and act like even more of a jerk the next time*." Pretty harsh assessment of a child you don't know, of a situation where all the details are unavailable to you.
I say all of this because I have seen, at my son's school, these things...
A kindergartner who literally poked hunks of cheeseburger into his mouth and down his throat, without chewing a bite, because he is so hungry.
Another kindergartner stuffing his lunch sack with scraps leftover from his friends lunches during a field trip because he and his sister will be "hungry tonight".
The 2-3 backpacks sitting outside the classrooms doors on Friday afternoons, cleverly disguised as "reading enrichment" bags which really contain food to get some students and their siblings through the weekend.
So I'm looking at hungry kids a bit differently I guess. I realize the child in question was 13 and everyone thinks she should have known better but what if she really doesn't? What if she's hungry and embarrassed and doesn't know how to tell you? What if there really is a problem at home and she wants to tell you but now that you have snapped at her and made her feel like a jackass and now she can't tell you anything?

So you have never ever spoken to someone in a shocked voice or cannot imagine a circumstance where you would? That's amazing to me.

Ok.

I think she may have been a bit hungry. She and the older girl did eat something..a yogurt or something small before the french fry incident.

But she wasn't starving in the sense that she hasn't eaten because there is no food at home, it's because she came here after school and generally kids are hungry after school.

I don't know if she's been taught what to do or not, she's a fairly new friend of my daughter's but if she's been taught she certainly hasn't learned or doesn't have impulse control or simply doesn't care.

I I can guarantee you one thing...she was nowhere near embarrassed. I think I mentioned before that she justified it "they are soooo good" did not appear to be the least bit embarrassed or sorry for the behaviour...not even sorry for being caught.

If this child is suffering from hunger then her parents should probably sell their very nice home or their motor home or their boat to buy groceries. Because when I dropped her off later that night I could see no signs of hunger. She has one other sibling, lives with her parents in a $250000 home in a nice neighbourhood. Her father is a commercial plumber and her mother is a legal assistant I think...well she works at a law office and she's not a lawyer. They have a nice car and a pick up truck that's pretty decent too. She dresses nicely and has an ipod. And she's a good healthy weight too.

I don't know who called her a jerk. I would call her rude. I know rude is a subjective term but still, i think her behaviour qualified. I have never called a child a jerk in my life.

The children you describe are not even remotely like this situation. I mean her parents may be complete jerks(her mom seems nice, I met her 2 nights ago) but she's not starving for food. But even if she were, seh could go to her grandparents who live a few doors down in an even nicer home.

and I don't know why she would want to tell me about her problems at home since I barely knew her at that point. But if me setting a boundary in my own home means she has to talk to someone else I can certainly live with that.

Oh..and I am just editing to add..she was invited to dinner that night...we did feed her a meal. This was the after school snack. An hour later we had dinner and she stayed..I drove her home later that evening at 8pm.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gsd1amommy* 
"And if you hadn't said anything to the 13yo girl about the fry-snatching, she'd likely think it was fine with you, *and act like even more of a jerk the next time*." Pretty harsh assessment of a child you don't know, of a situation where all the details are unavailable to you.

I don't see it as harsh, considering that the OP said she'd already been given her own snack, and had been invited to dinner.

If she were starving, had been offered no snack, and was just stuck hungrily looking at the fries -- then yeah, I could see her maybe losing control. But she was sitting there with *her own food*. The OP said she knew that both girls were hungry, so it doesn't sound like she just handed them each 3 apple slices a piece and expected that to suffice 'til dinner, ya know.

Quote:

I realize the child in question was 13 and everyone thinks she should have known better but what if she really doesn't? What if she's hungry and embarrassed and doesn't know how to tell you?
Well, uhm, as I've already said, the OP said she *knew* that the girl was hungry -- and that's why she'd already given her *her own snack*.

Quote:

What if there really is a problem at home and she wants to tell you but now that you have snapped at her and made her feel like a jackass and now she can't tell you anything?
And what if there really were a problem at home -- and the OP had suppressed her concern about the fry-snatching, so that the girl thought it was okay to do stuff like that at the OP's house, and kept coming back and being more and more obnoxious until the OP was either filled with silent rage, or reached a bursting point that was much worse than the matter-of-fact snapping she did the other day: does this scenario sound conducive to the girl feeling like she could confide in the OP?

I think it's usually better to be up-front about things that are totally unacceptable, rather than letting the situation build up to one where feelings are much more likely to get seriously wounded.

I don't know, but the girl's comment, "But they are so good," doesn't sound like someone who was totally ashamed and felt like a jackass.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I don't know who called her a jerk. I would call her rude. I know rude is a subjective term but still, i think her behaviour qualified. I have never called a child a jerk in my life.

Okay, I'll fess up: I was the one who saw her behavior as "acting like a jerk." I don't know her personally, so I'm not going to say that *she's*, straight-across-the-board, a jerk. Plus I agree that it's not cool to label kids, or even adults, as jerks. But I just said she was "acting like" one -- just as I sometimes acknowledge that I'm acting like a b!^(#, but that doesn't mean the b-word totally defines who I am.

Quote:

and I don't know why she would want to tell me about her problems at home since I barely knew her at that point. But if me setting a boundary in my own home means she has to talk to someone else I can certainly live with that.
I agree.

Also, while I like for my children's friends to feel welcome, I don't know that it's always a great idea to get into the middle of kids' relationships with their parents. I don't even know how I'd feel about someone else encouraging one of my kids to spill the dirt on dh and me.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Exactly Mammal_mama...thanks

and about the snack. There were other snacks around. Both girls were behind the island, looking in the fridge, pretty sure they grabbed a yogurt(that's my 13 year old daughter's usual after school snack), I asked them not to eat the last apple as it was one of the other girl's she was saving from her lunch, there were cookies, there was peanut butter and jam, pizza pockets(blech) There were choices. It wasn't that she couldn't have food. She just needed to have different food.

Plus she was staying for dinner.

Nope, no starvation there, just a poor sense of boundaries I guess.

One thing I know for sure, I would not approve of my perfectly healthy, well-fed 13 year old daughter snagging some little kids snack in a house she was visiting no matter how well seh knew the family. I'd be very disappointed in her.

Anyway..my daughter is invited to their house tonight. So I guess we will be getting to know this girl a bit better in the next little while.


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## gsd1amommy (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I don't see it as harsh, considering that the OP said she'd already been given her own snack, and had been invited to dinner.

If she were starving, had been offered no snack, and was just stuck hungrily looking at the fries -- then yeah, I could see her maybe losing control. But she was sitting there with *her own food*. The OP said she knew that both girls were hungry, so it doesn't sound like she just handed them each 3 apple slices a piece and expected that to suffice 'til dinner, ya know.
Well, uhm, as I've already said, the OP said she *knew* that the girl was hungry -- and that's why she'd already given her *her own snack*.

And what if there really were a problem at home -- and the OP had suppressed her concern about the fry-snatching, so that the girl thought it was okay to do stuff like that at the OP's house, and kept coming back and being more and more obnoxious until the OP was either filled with silent rage, or reached a bursting point that was much worse than the matter-of-fact snapping she did the other day: does this scenario sound conducive to the girl feeling like she could confide in the OP?

I think it's usually better to be up-front about things that are totally unacceptable, rather than letting the situation build up to one where feelings are much more likely to get seriously wounded.

I don't know, but the girl's comment, "But they are so good," doesn't sound like someone who was totally ashamed and felt like a jackass.

_OP said she had a small snack but didn't know what it was. Child could have still been hungry and afraid to ask for something else and thought she could sneak some fries._
_You can be up-front about something without snapping at someone._
_Maybe she was ashamed that she got caught or that this behavior was so unacceptable that her friend's mother snapped at her, it was all she could think of to say._


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Okay, I'll fess up: I was the one who saw her behavior as "acting like a jerk." I don't know her personally, so I'm not going to say that *she's*, straight-across-the-board, a jerk. Plus I agree that it's not cool to label kids, or even adults, as jerks. But I just said she was "acting like" one -- just as I sometimes acknowledge that I'm acting like a b!^(#, but that doesn't mean the b-word totally defines who I am.

Gotcha


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gsd1amommy* 
_OP said she had a small snack but didn't know what it was. Child could have still been hungry and afraid to ask for something else and thought she could sneak some fries._
_You can be up-front about something without snapping at someone._
_Maybe she was ashamed that she got caught or that this behavior was so unacceptable that her friend's mother snapped at her, it was all she could think of to say._

That "could have been" but definitely wasn't the situation.

You don't know me. You don't know me from Adam but seriously...I don't "snap" frequently. I can guarantee you I felt sorrier for snapping then she did for taking the fries.

I know you are bringing your perspective of seeing lots of hungry children here but I guarantee you this was not the case. This was not a poor, starving child who is now embarrassed and traumatized at the hands of her friend's insensitive mom.

This child was not embarrassed, ashamed or even remotely traumatized by me snapping.

I would bet money it bothered me a heck of a lot more than it ever bothered her. I would bet she never gave it another thought while I am here writing about it days later.

Which is why I am now choosing to just let it go....


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## gsd1amommy (Apr 6, 2007)

allgirls,
We posted at the same time so I see some more info and can look at it a bit differently. As information is added to posts, you get a better picture. You made it sound a bit more dramatic than it really was by omitting some of the info about what was available to her. Yes, I am very nervous about kids being hungry. I have always known there are kids who don't get enough to eat but seeing them, seeing them as my son's peers-it kills me because it shouldn't be like this. All apologies.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gsd1amommy* 
allgirls,
. You made it sound a bit more dramatic than it really was by omitting some of the info about what was available to her. Yes, I am very nervous about kids being hungry. All apologies.

I have never been accused of being dramatic in my entire life...I'm kind of flattered









apology accepted but certainly not necessary


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## anubis (Oct 6, 2006)

Right, here's my thoughts on the matters brought up in this thread:

1. I knew well before age 13 not to take other people's stuff, be it food or otherwise. I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation.

2. Sometimes people snap at others. It's not the end of the world. It's simply human. I doubt the girl is going to be any worse for wear because of that.

3. I don't even have kids yet, and I can't stand people inviting themselves for dinner. I need some warning, and all of the people who would come over to our place for dinner know that. If they chose to disregard that fact and do it anyway, I wouldn't hesitate to tell them it's not happening.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Y'know a person who comes on MDC and freaks out over snapping at someone isn't really the sort of person who snaps at people casually.

And I don't think that one fry followed by several fries sounds like a person overcome by hunger so they lose control.


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

The thing is, you were thrown by her behavior - so your reaction was something more than what you usually let out, right? Be easy on yourself, it was just an unexpected situation.

Besides, if she is sneaking food, this may be a good thing that you saw it & reprimanded her. She may try to get your kids to be sneaky with bigger issues since it seems to come naturally for her, now she knows that you are aware of what happens with your kids & are not afraid to call her on it. This small incident may have given you some insight - & given her a warning NOT to bahave that way around your family. It IS all good


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## TattooedMommy (Aug 11, 2006)

I didn't read the whole thread yet, but I'm wondering if maybe the girl *never* gets fast food, so that is why she is displaying this behavior. I grew up in a house where we never ever had any fast food (my mom is super crunchy and owned a health food store) and I may of tried to sneak some at someone's house at some point. Because to us, it was that good.


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## Jade's Mom (Aug 8, 2007)

I grew up without much junk food, too, but because we couldn't afford it. So, when I would babysit for a family that was more affluent than mine I would find myself sneaking junk food. Also, my parents didn't really teach me more than the basics of manners. I had to learn them all on my own by watching my friends. That's not a mistake I'll make with my daughter. I don't want her to be in her mid-30's and still self conscious about her manners (even though mine tend to be quite above average).

That being said, there is a difference between sneaking food, and taking food from a baby. Even with my lack of training in manners as a teenager, I NEVER would have taken food from a little kid.


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## IdahoMom (Nov 8, 2005)

I was kind of a social idiot when I was a teenager. Are they all? I still can't imagine taking a child's fries without being offered first. But I did some pretty stupid stuff that makes me cringe now.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IdahoMom* 
I was kind of a social idiot when I was a teenager. Are they all? I still can't imagine taking a child's fries without being offered first. But I did some pretty stupid stuff that makes me cringe now.

I've done stuff that makes me cringe now, too. But I don't see it as helpful for anyone to act like things are acceptable, when they're not. I can recall some adults who seemed so sweet and accommodating at first, then things came to a head and I learned, rather belatedly, that I'd been getting on their last nerve for quite some time.

It's much better when people can say what they really think from the get-go. Rule/boundary-changes waaaaay down the line can be more hurtful and damaging, IMO.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Apricot* 
Besides, reheated fries are not "sooo good" - so She's lying.









That made me laugh - because it was the first thing I thought of too!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Now I wish I could figure out a tactful way to start a new rule about kids getting drinks and using the restroom in their own houses -- when everyone's playing outdoors, and going home just involves taking a few extra steps (certainly I have no problem with sharing our water/restroom if someone's playing *inside* our house). I think I'll try the tack of explaining that since I'm outside watching everyone, I really don't want kids (except for my own) going into our house when I can't be in there, and also that I don't feel like going in and out all the time to get drinks for people (both of which are true).

I think it depends on how many kids are playing in this outdoor group, the ages of the kids, and how well you know them. I have no problem with the neighbor girl using our bathroom when they are playing in our yard, but I know her and know she won't be climbing the walls or breaking things - just using the bathroom and coming back out. And my kids use their restroom too - whatever is convenient. But I don't blame you for not wanting to fetch drinks for a lot of kids. Again, if it were just a few, I'd get water and some Tupperware glasses - unless I'd just stocked up on juice boxes at Costco.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I would not approve of my perfectly healthy, well-fed 13 year old daughter snagging some little kids snack in a house she was visiting no matter how well seh knew the family. I'd be very disappointed in her.

I'm with you! I'd be very disappointed if any of my kids over the age of five or so pulled that. Younger and I'd just consider it a learning opportunity, and apologize myself.

The only decent (IMO) reason given so far was that possibly her parents _never_ let her have junk food, and she is just obsessive about french fries. Still not ok at her age, but slightly understandable if that is the case.

I continue to be surprised at what some parents don't teach their kids. Or maybe they try but it didn't sink in? My dd1 is 11 and would NEVER take food from a young kid - or anyone - without asking and being given permission. My 7 year old knows better! Really, I think my 4 year old would ask first as well. Huh, might have to set up an experiment....


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
I think it depends on how many kids are playing in this outdoor group, the ages of the kids, and how well you know them. I have no problem with the neighbor girl using our bathroom when they are playing in our yard, but I know her and know she won't be climbing the walls or breaking things - just using the bathroom and coming back out.

Well, I'm probably spoiled by just having girls so far -- but I'd prefer not to have to deal with the little-boy-missing-the-toilet messes, and the fall-ins that sometimes occur when little boys leave the lid up.







I know, that sounds pretty snarky of me -- but I've already clarified that when they're visiting in our home, it's cool; I just kind of check behind 'em.

It's a little harder to keep up with all that when I'm outside with the kids, though.

Quote:

And my kids use their restroom too - whatever is convenient.
Well, my dd doesn't find it that inconvenient to run home and grab a water-bottle or use the restroom (she'll often take one with her when she goes to play across the street). Since we're still not beyond casual friendliness with our neighbors, I like for dd to stay in my sight, so she plays in other yards but doesn't go into houses.

Quote:

But I don't blame you for not wanting to fetch drinks for a lot of kids. Again, if it were just a few, I'd get water and some Tupperware glasses - unless I'd just stocked up on juice boxes at Costco.
Yeah, we often have pop-ice on hand, and when dd's playing with friends, she'll often run in and grab one for herself and one for each of her friends. But it can get crazy when more kids come out, and more and more, and they keep asking her to run back in ... and then the ones who got one earlier sometimes want another ... so after a point I say, "That's enough," so dd can just have fun playing and not spend all her time running and fetching.


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## mama_at_home (Apr 27, 2004)

Quote:

I continue to be surprised at what some parents don't teach their kids. Or maybe they try but it didn't sink in? My dd1 is 11 and would NEVER take food from a young kid - or anyone - without asking and being given permission. My 7 year old knows better! Really, I think my 4 year old would ask first as well. Huh, might have to set up an experiment....
I agree! My 4 year old knows better than to do that! It is very poor manners for a 13 year old to grab a toddler's food without asking and then to make an excuse for it. I would have been really stern with her, too. Hungry or not, there is no excuse for that kind of behaviour.


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## ruhbehka (Nov 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
Really? Under any circumstances?

I couldn't have invited anyone if I just didn't have enough food.

But since i had cooked just enough for my rather large family and had it dished on plates ready to eat there wasn't a whole lot I could do. I was hungry too. I don't want to cook more food. I wanted to eat.

It's a school night and I have to eat dinner, bathe children, supervise them doing homework, put them to bed all by myself because my dh works away. My life is hectic, busy and stressful.

Did I mention I have 4 kids ranging from two until 17..all girls hence the moniker...they talk a lot..and loudly...

did I also mention we can't afford to feed 2 extra 13 year old girls regularly. We are far from poor but I am careful with our money.

Did I also mention that we do have them for dinner, when it's planned and they have been invited in time for me to prepare food?

I also don't see why I should have 2 13 year old girls(did I mention there were 2 of them, though only one came into the house) over for dinner that literally live 8 houses down the street and their mother has cooked dinner for them but they didn't bother to go home because they assumed they could just eat at my house.

I just get too tired for that. One thing I have to do to make this family run smoothly is to know intimately my own limitations and boundaries.

We often say that our children should be set up for success.

I have worked really hard to set myself as a parent up for success as well.

I have 5 people sitting around the table eating 3 times a day and when dh is home I have 6. I'm good.









But if you can do it, knock yourself out. I know people who can.

None of them are me

(Something about my previous post is mixed up..I've got two stories in one there, or the wrong kid listed..going back to fix that)

oh..it's just the way you quoted. It's sort of mixed up. can't fix that.









I grew up in a house where we pretty much always had unexpected dinner guests, where we had relatives and friends who stayed with us and sometimes ate with us and sometimes didn't, etc. And where we generally cooked more than enough for one meal at a time (usually beans and rice, being a Latino family).

I suspect that may make me more laid back than others are about unexpected company. I'd actually be embarrassed not to invite someone to stay for dinner if they were there at that hour, let alone to ask them to leave. Sounds like this might be a cultural difference.

I'm not trying to be critical, it just genuinely surprised me to realize that other families have a different "normal" about this.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

It may be cultural









I just know I, personally, need structure and boundaries.

I just don't have the energy for chaos. Which is how it feels to me.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ruhbehka* 







I grew up in a house where we pretty much always had unexpected dinner guests, where we had relatives and friends who stayed with us and sometimes ate with us and sometimes didn't, etc. And where we generally cooked more than enough for one meal at a time (usually beans and rice, being a Latino family).

I suspect that may make me more laid back than others are about unexpected company. I'd actually be embarrassed not to invite someone to stay for dinner if they were there at that hour, let alone to ask them to leave. Sounds like this might be a cultural difference.

I'm not trying to be critical, it just genuinely surprised me to realize that other families have a different "normal" about this.

It sounds like it is cultural. The Latino families I know (we have quite a few on our block) seem to have really powerful support systems. For example, if your mom ran out of beans and rice after feeding several extra people all week, and your dad didn't get paid for a few more days, I imagine the relatives would pitch in and you could count on your family's needs being met.

It's easy to be laid-back when it's not all on you.

Also, the scenario you share -- where other families stayed with you or came to visit you a lot -- is slightly different from the scenario the OP was sharing, where the mother up the street had prepared dinner for her children, but they decided they couldn't be bothered to show up for their own family dinner, and wanted to intrude on their friends instead (that doesn't sound very Latino, to me, for kids to be doing that).

In most of the "feeding the neighborhood kids" scenarios I've experienced, I just need to be prepared to part with the food. I can't count on the other parents to pool their resources and provide us with food if we run out before dh gets paid. So I don't give out what I know I'm going to need to feed my own family.

It sounds like in your culture, everyone's just one big happy family, and there's no line drawn between what belongs to one family and what belongs to another. I think that's a nice way to be, when everyone around you reciprocates.

I personally enjoy having people drop in for visits. I will gladly offer a cup of tea or coffee for the adults, and whatever snack-foods we have on hand for both adults and children, be it apples and peanut butter, cheese and crackers, cookies, or what-have-you.

And if my dh were more extraverted and enjoyed providing dinner for a continual stream of visitors, it's likely I'd have no problem inviting people to stay. But my dh really likes having it be just us in the evenings, and with limited finances he worries a lot about making ends meet. So I endeavor to do practically all of our mother-child socializing during the daytime when he's at work. And I don't cause my husband undue stress by trying to feed the whole neighborhood.

To me, hospitality is meaningless if people in my own family are stressed and unhappy about the situation.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I like having company, but I have to know ahead of time so I have the food on hand. Like, if we're having chicken breast for dinner, I most likely have two chicken breasts on hand for the three of us to split, because that's how much we eat. I cook enough for us. If I know other people are coming, I cook extra. But I don't like waste so I try to cook just how much the three of us need.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I too cook exactly what we need if I can.

I think when you rarely have people over for dinner you get in the habit of only cooking what you need for that meal.

Also some meals are great for drop in guests like Chili and soups/stews and some just are more exact.

I know a guy who makes a delicious traditional soup every Saturday and people know he does this and they have company all day Saturday and it's just their day for people to drop in..it's like a regularly scheduled open-house.

I grew up in a small town on Canada's east coast and it sounded a bit like the latino meals you describe however it was all give and take, my aunt's house sometimes, my house sometimes, my grandmothers..we were all going wherever the action was that day and all the aunts pitched in and cooked and we all cleaned up etc. But we did not do this on evenings when people had to work/go to bed early/get kids ready for school etc. It was when we knew it was ok..being in a family/community/small town meant we all knew what was up.

I don't live there







anymore and we just don't have that here.

I also don't have grandparents or extended family to take the kids for 15 minutes so I can have time. I have to carefully negotiate my day so that I get a bit of a reprieve at the end of it.

I also guess I have some introverted qualities..I really need to regroup in quiet at the end of the day or I will lose it.


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## bubs8 (Jan 1, 2008)

All girls,

I can totally relate. Granted, my situation was with the family I was a nanny for and the girls were only 7. The LO I cared for had her friend over and after they both chose a snack (which they were free to choose from the snack drawer) my LO went to the bathroom. While she was gone her friend ate her snack! They had chosen the same thing, but the friend thought it was acceptable to eat both snacks. LO didn't say anything but instead just got another snack. Later, LO's younger brother (2 at the time) was having some chips, the friend walked up and took a handful without asking. I, too, snapped at the friend reminding her that "we don't take things from anyone else, especially without asking first". She seemed a little embarrassed.

Over months I became friends with her mom and eventually mentioned this very casually. Her mom said the girl does the same thing at home with her younger sister. It wasn't a food issue per se, it was more "you have this and I want it". The mom had been working hard to break this and actually THANKED me for calling her daughter out on it. Parents don't want their kids to be rude, and if they aren't there or don't know what is happening I'm sure most of them expect the supervising adult to provide guidance.


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## J. Jones (Jan 28, 2007)

Some kids have food issues.

I came from a large, underfed family where getting enough to eat dominated my instincts. Going over to affluent (normal) kids' houses was a trial. Hunger is so intense. It's a human drive. The feeling of deprivation and need turns you into an animal. And the funny thing is that it's a real turn-off to those around you. Seeing sneaky, hungry kids scramble for food makes even well-off people feel stingy. The wolf part of you is dangerous and people steer clear. It's so hard to be a hungry kid. And even when you've had enough to eat the instincts are still present.

Also, in our big family we often ate off of each other's plate. If you weren't eating it, it meant you didn't want it, and thus it was up for grabs.

Yes, we were uncivilized.







:


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## Quinalla (May 23, 2005)

I think your reaction was just right. She knows better than to take anyone's food and if she was that hungry, she should have asked if she could share the fries or have a different snack. I think you had the exact response you should have to someone who was knowing crossing boundaries that she knew she shouldn't. The only thing to add would maybe be "If you are hungry, please ask if you can share or for another snack." but I stand by your initial response.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *J. Jones* 
I came from a large, underfed family where getting enough to eat dominated my instincts. Going over to affluent (normal) kids' houses was a trial. Hunger is so intense. It's a human drive. The feeling of deprivation and need turns you into an animal. And the funny thing is that it's a real turn-off to those around you. Seeing sneaky, hungry kids scramble for food makes even well-off people feel stingy. The wolf part of you is dangerous and people steer clear. It's so hard to be a hungry kid. And even when you've had enough to eat the instincts are still present.









I'm sorry you went through that!

It's a good thing the 13yo in the OP wasn't going through that.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 







I'm sorry you went through that!

It's a good thing the 13yo in the OP wasn't going through that.

No, I've gotten to know her a bit better since I first posted and they have no shortage of food there. In fact her mom just dropped my daughter off before their dinner, they are going out for dinner.

J.Jones...I'm so sorry it was like that for you. I can't imagine how horrible it would be to grow up without enough to eat


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

I dunno...13 is still a child. She may have been wrong to do it, but children do make mistakes and we should treat them all with compassion....


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 
I dunno...13 is still a child. She may have been wrong to do it, but children do make mistakes and we should treat them all with compassion....


Compassion? I think this was more about respect than compassion









Compassion I have in spades, patience was what I was lacking in that moment..and the ability to sensor my response to her sneakiness. Maybe a lack of tact.

But as I said, I was just so shocked at the behaviour


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Again, she is the child, you are the adult. Obviously you do expect more from yourself or you wouldn't be posting about it here.

Shocked at the behavior...I guess. I can think of a LOT of things a 13-year-old could do that would be much more shocking...I'm not disagreeing that what she did was disrespectful and impolite, but I did want to throw out there that while a 13-year-old should know better, she's still a child and deserving of our compassion and patience.


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## leerypolyp (Feb 22, 2005)

Eh. It falls into the realm of natural consequence, I think. Don't beat yourself up about it.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 
Again, she is the child, you are the adult. Obviously you do expect more from yourself or you wouldn't be posting about it here.

Shocked at the behavior...I guess. I can think of a LOT of things a 13-year-old could do that would be much more shocking...I'm not disagreeing that what she did was disrespectful and impolite, but I did want to throw out there that while a 13-year-old should know better, she's still a child and deserving of our compassion and patience.

I think every person is deserving of compassion and patience no matter how they behave. Do you really think I don't already know that? Or are you talking to someone else?

yeah, she's the child, I am the adult, we are both human







and I think I behaved in a completely understandable way. It's not like I berated and derided her for hours for this, I reacted to her actions.

I felt a bit bad after because I usually have a great deal of patience with kids. But I am not going to beat myself up for a simple little slip up.

It's all done now. I have meditated loving kindness towards her and all other living creatures and moved along with my life.

Cheers


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I think every person is deserving of compassion and patience no matter how they behave. Do you really think I don't already know that? Or are you talking to someone else?



I was responding to what you set forth. No need to get defensive. I think we all KNOW that, but that doesn't mean we remember it all of the time.

I don't think you need to beat yourself up about it, either. Just adding my .02 to the discussion. I thought that's what we were supposed to do here, no?


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