# Holding a child financially responsible for damage they cause to furniture/home items?



## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Note this is about *financial* responsiblity...somehow some of my poll got cutt off when I went back and had to shorten one of the poll answers. Grrr...

At what age do you think it is reasonable to hold a child financially responsible to repair/replace if they purposefully cause damage to household items/furniture?

This assumes that the child knows full well that this behavior is not acceptable.

Examples: Your child carves deeply into your dining table. Or takes her school scissors home and cuts off pieces of your vertical blinds, the straps from her brother's new sandals and pieces out of her sister's stuffed animal.

This is assuming that the child has a good amount of money saved, given mainly by parents, some by relatives for holidays/birthdays/birth, in savings account.


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## bronxmom (Jan 22, 2008)

I guess I'd say never. I would assume that either she is not old enough to have impulse control and try to remove the dangers while assuming positive intent. Or, if she is old enough to be responsible and accountable for her actions, then I'd really want to understand why she is doing these things. Espeically cutting a a sibling's stuff. Making her pay wouldn't seem to address either of those issues. I'd want to know why this is happening first.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Maybe 10 or 12, after the child has been warned ("any thing you damage on purpose you'll have to pay for"). The problem is, if your 10 or 12 year old is being that destructive, there may be mental health issues or at least problem with anger or rage.


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## Cavy (Aug 21, 2009)

I clicked age 4+.. the thing is, I wouldn't hold them financially responsible for everything and not for the full value. But I would probably ask for some kind of financial contribution towards repairing the damage. Even if it's just a token penny.

DD scratched our car absent-mindedly (but out of curiousity, too) when she was 6yo; I made her pay for the repair wax (about 4 weeks allowance at the time).


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## noobmom (Jan 19, 2008)

I vote teenagers for actual financial responsibility, but really, it depends on the situation and the amount of money involved. Motive is a big factor. For instance, teenager crashes their car by driving unsafely--definitely their responsibility. Teenager crashes their car because their brakes fail--I would help pay for that. If the amount of money is just too huge, then I think it's belaboring the point to require the child to pay it all back. If my kid burned down my house, is there any way they could ever pay that back?

However, the examples you listed are sort of disturbing, mostly because I've never understood why some people (not just children) have a desire to just destroy stuff. I don't think I would necessary take savings to pay that back. After all, that was gift money--not any money she actually worked for. If, instead she had spent it on toys instead of saving it, there wouldn't be any money to take. So, it seems like taking that money would encourage using up the money instead of saving. Rather, assuming the child is "old enough to know better", I think they should work off the debt, say by doing extra chores. If you don't have enough at your house, maybe require that the child "works" for an elder neighbor doing yard work or something like that (without money exchanging hands). I guess my point is, the association of damage to work is probably more valuable than damage to money since the child has no concept of working for a living yet.


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

I voted 8 and up. But i dont think i would ever hold my child financially responsible, i would make them work it off, as well as pay $$$ for it. Or let them trade in an item...say their play station for credit.


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## RollerCoasterMama (Jul 22, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ssh* 
Maybe 10 or 12, after the child has been warned ("any thing you damage on purpose you'll have to pay for"). The problem is, if your 10 or 12 year old is being that destructive, there may be mental health issues or at least problem with anger or rage.

Yup. This.

Realistically, I probably wouldn't want them to dip into money that was saved from gifts--they wouldn't actually get the point about the value of "stuff" and the value of money. Easy come, easy go. There's more to be learned by having them do some chores to earn the money to replace the item.

But it keeps circling back to the fact that a child that's old enough to be financially responsible for purposeful destruction of property probably has some other issues at the core that are more important than teaching them the value of a dollar! So it's just not sitting quite right with me.

In the scenario of a thoughtless accident that the child needed to take responsibility for (baseball through the window type thing)--then the chores for replacement money seems appropriate again.


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## crl (May 9, 2004)

I voted 6 and up. DS is 6. We haven't had the household damage issue yet really. I haven't ever had to replace or repair something because of him--though he did mark up his bookcase and I would have to sand/refinish/paint to completely fix it. Instead we cleaned it off as best we could and I'm ignoring it until he's older. Oh, and I just remembered he recently broke a lamp in his room because he was angry and throwing things (not okay) and something hit the lamp. He's been told I have no intention of replacing it anytime soon and he can buy a new one out of his allowance if he wants a new one right away.

I have recently started explaining to DS that he needs to be careful with books, etc at the bookstore because if he damages them he'll need to pay for them out of his allowance. Before this I figured it would be my fault for not supervising him properly if he did any damage, but he is now old enough to really understand money and to have enough impulse control to be responsible for his choices. Also he is old enough that he doesn't want me right next to him while he's browsing at the store. So with the increased freedom (I keep him in sight but I'm not close enough to intervene immediately if he started ripping pages or something), comes increased responsibility.

Catherine


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

"Your child carves deeply into your dining table. Or takes her school scissors home and cuts off pieces of your vertical blinds, the straps from her brother's new sandals and pieces out of her sister's stuffed animal."

Oh my, why are they doing this? It sounds like a child who needs a lot more support.


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## notjustmamie (Mar 7, 2007)

I said "other" because I really think there are so many factors involved that I couldn't just assign it an age.

Some additional considerations:

child's understanding of his or her action
intent (as much as could be determined)
child's recognition of the value of item/repair (financial or sentimental)
comparison of repair/replacement to amount of money child has
desires of the item's owner


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

hmm, i'm not sure. for my kids, the answer would vary. my daughter is 8 & she would never purposefully damage anything - therefore, if that happened, i'd probably be more concerned about the "why" with her. it would be so out of character, that the damaged item would be least of my concerns. my ds is a different story though. he has destroyed things when he's angry; he's 5. in those situations, i have thrown stuff away (poster he destroyed in his room, etc) - and for him, the natural consequence of losing the item & me not replacing it is sufficient.

now, one time both of my kids wasted all of the shampoo & conditioner in the bathtub. this was deliberate. they als didn't care...their attitude was like, "oh well...too bad for you". i was ticked off. it was my shampoo & conditioner & we have to budget everything. they were certainly old enough to know it belonged to me and that wasting it for no reason simply wasn't cool with me. anyway - they didn't have money, so instead, i had them do chores to work off the cost of what it would be to replace it. if something along those lines occurred again, i would not hesitate to do the same thing.

on another note...when i was a teenager, i was locked out of the house and broke a window to get in (had other options....just chose the easiest). my father made me go to the hardware store and buy the window with him. i then had to watch him replace it. he said his time was valuable & if he had to spend it fixing something i did - then he wanted me to see how inconvenient that was, lol.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

I voted other because doubt I really would hold a child responsable but if I ever did then my main criteria would be if they have an income. Intent and understanding of ones actions would also be a big contributor too though.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

Purposeful damage/wrecking of someone's belongings, 100% financially responsible starting at aroun 10, with some therapy/figuring out WHY my 10 y/o is cutting up his sisters shoes/teddy bear/blinds...if they don't have an 'income' then perhaps they'd have to work off their part with extra chores or something big (like cleaning out the garage or basement or something)

Accidental damage? Nothing. I mean kids are outside throwing a ball and one goes wide and breaks a window? Total accident. Riding bikes and accidently get too close to the car and scratch it? Accident, just a warning to stay out of the driveway or something.


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## Tjej (Jan 22, 2009)

Sorry, I voted other. I think that all along a child should be responsible for their actions - and until they are responsible enough for their actions they should not be left alone to do any actions that are irresponsible.

If it were my table, well, they'd be sanding and filling it and working to fix it. The sandal straps - buying new sandals. And not with the saved money, but with current earnings. My almost 2yo I could see doing things like this - I guess that I'd currently be responsible for it just because I would have to be right there minding him, so it would ultimately have been my irresponsibility that caused it. My 3yo, having the right to be more independent, she would have the responsibility to not destroy things like that.

Of course, if she did, I would be very worried about why in the world she was choosing to do it. And I would not allow her to be alone unsupervised for quite a while (she would have lost that priviledge by not being responsible enough to handle it).

Tjej


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## mild_adventurer (Jun 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
"Your child carves deeply into your dining table. Or takes her school scissors home and cuts off pieces of your vertical blinds, the straps from her brother's new sandals and pieces out of her sister's stuffed animal."

Oh my, why are they doing this? It sounds like a child who needs a lot more support.

Can't a child be held responsible AND get support? Why does it have to be one or the other? Our children are all 8+ and when they purposefully damage a household item or another family member's property, we try to find a balance between holding them responsible for their actions and working with them to understand why they did what they did and what they might need from us.

I think the blatent abdication of responsibility - especially for older children - could set the stage for dangerous entitlement/narcissitic behavior later down the road.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Probably around age 8. And if they don't have the money to pay for the item(s), then they would have to do chores (which in my house is what would likely happen as we don't do allowences.)


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

I voted 4+, but I wouldn't probably let them use past savings. We would figure out a "reasonable" amount for the child to pay and they'd earn that money by doing things for us and others. The attempt would be to make it comparable to the work that DH or I would have to do to replace/fix that item.

So a repair that would cost DH or I 1day's worth of earnings, should cost the child 1 day's worth of work. It would be to provide the feedback that money comes from work. And we need money or work to do things.

I am a big fan of making my child fix her own problems. From about 18 months on we made sure to put cloths in a low drawer in the kitchen and if she spilt her cup of water we didn't get mad, but directed her to the drawer to get a towel and clean up the water (with our help at first) and then throw the towel in the laundry basket. At 3 she doesn't even tell us anymore and just does it. If she needs help she asks for it.

I would want to take a similar approach to helping her learn to fix bigger problems too.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elizawill* 
on another note...when i was a teenager, i was locked out of the house and broke a window to get in (had other options....just chose the easiest). my father made me go to the hardware store and buy the window with him. i then had to watch him replace it. he said his time was valuable & if he had to spend it fixing something i did - then he wanted me to see how inconvenient that was, lol.

That's how we are. DS recently broke out a window in our sunroom by throwing a ball. Our sunroom's this weird kind of inside/kind of outside place, so the windows are really flimsy. We're planning to replace them in a few weeks because we're closing it in, so we've already planned to buy a new one. DH did make DS help with cleaning up and taping up the window until then. I think that's a valuable lesson at his age (4) since he kept saying he'd rather be playing.


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## jljeppson (Jul 18, 2004)

For me a lot of it depends on the situation. Not too long ago I bought my daughter a doll, which one of her brothers promptly broke (accidentally, but they were being too rough and knew better). I bought another doll, but with the clear warning that if it was broken the person responsible would be required to replace it with birthday money. Again, within a few days, it was broken and that child was responsible for replacing it with birthday money. He was 10. The same child managed to break a large picture window while putting the landscaping rocks in the front yard back in place (our kids and those in the neighborhood like to throw the rocks so periodically they are required to put them back; that includes the neighbor kids); he was skipping rocks up the hill to the place where they belonged and it bounced wrong and hit the window. He wasn't required to help pay for repairs for that, but he was warned about the proper way to replace the rocks and that he would be held responsible if it happened again (even just throwing the rocks would have gotten him a punishment). I've also required a 5yr old to replace a siblings toy with b-day money; all of it just depends on the situation and age of the kid at the time.


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## jljeppson (Jul 18, 2004)

I just wanted to add that I have a niece that once took scissors and cut some of my mothers new towels to shreds. She was somewhere around the age of 7-8; my mother was furious, but my sister didn't hold her responsible for the damage since the child had ADHD and (at the time) had impulse control problems and I don't think she was medicated. I say had, because she actually grew out of it. She tends a bit towards the drama side, but that runs in the family so doesn't surprise me.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I checked other. My DD has been responsible for her actions since she became self-aware and had reasonable control over her limbs (about 20 months give or take). Finances or not - i wouldn't raid her piggybank to fix a deliberately damaged table but i would make her wash the windows until we'd saved enough window-cleaner money to pay for it.

If she wrecks something of hers i make her throw it in the bin. The only time she wrecked something of mine that mattered it was something that could never be replaced, financially or otherwise, it hurt my feelings so badly, and i cried so much, she still remembers the incident. It was a year ago and she was 2.5.


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## ma_vie_en_rose (Jun 7, 2008)

I had to vote other. I don't think it is really right to make them financially responsible for something if they don't have an income other than b-day money. That is not to say that they are off the hook for taking responsibility for their actions. I do make them help fix the damage and do extra chores to make up for the cost and time it will take me to fix it.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Our family just doesn't work that way. If something was damaged, we'd probably try to figure out what to do about it, and find a solution that worked for both of us. Rain carved stuff into our coffee tabel when she was 6 or so... I wasn't thrilled, but it was pretty beat up anyway, so I just lived with it for a while, and then it eventually became a plant table outside...

If it was something that needed to be fixed we'd probably try to fix it together. I guess she might offer to help pay for it, and that would be okay - I don't think I'd accept a lot of money, because $10 is usually a bigger hit to a kid than to me, but some...

Really, though, if it happened a lot I would focus more on prevention.


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## russianthistle (Jul 19, 2005)




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## Bea (Apr 6, 2008)

This is kind of on topic.

My step daughter loves a nice long shower (she's 8) but last year we ran into an issue of her using up all the shower gel, repeatedly.

One night she'd used it all again and I had none left so I gave her a brand new bottle of baby wash with instructions that she didn't need to use any more than a squirt about the size of a quarter on her bath pouff, squish it around till it got soapy and that was plenty to wash her entire body.

We'd been over this 47 times.

When I went to have a shower next morning the bottle of baby wash had half an inch left in the bottom. I was pissed. We walked down to the store later that day and I made her buy a new shower gel for the family and pay for it out her own money. She made the entire transaction. I told her that she'd be doing this every time she wasted bath products from now on.

It never happened again.


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## bronxmom (Jan 22, 2008)

QUOTE: The only time she wrecked something of mine that mattered it was something that could never be replaced, financially or otherwise, it hurt my feelings so badly, and i cried so much, she still remembers the incident. It was a year ago and she was 2.5."

To me, this antecdote speaks to how powerful we are to our children and how much they need our approval. That a child would remember hurting something of her mom's a year later (that she probably hurt without malicious intent or at least not any real awareness of the weight of her actions) is very sad to me. Of course, our kids should know when they've hurt us but we need to be really, really careful not to wield that power we have lightly.


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## MommaLura (Jan 1, 2009)

Depends on the child, but I voted for teenagers because they are capable for earning the money or choosing to use their personal savings.

My cousin at 19 threw a huge party in our townhome (owned by her parents) and some how in their drunken state and too many people they broke the floor of the house (literally, it bounced!). Thankfully I chose to stay elsewhere since I don't like parties. She had to get a job and pay for the repair of the floor and had to personally clean a very sticky downstairs. It taught her a valuable lesson and I don't think she had the slightest idea about the cost of repairs before this incident. HTH


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## Down2Earth (Jan 23, 2008)

When my sister was 12 yo she accidentally broke a bottle of lotion. I always thought it was so mean and over the top for my step-mom to make her pay for it. It was an accident! I think "intention" is really important when deciding if a child should be financially responsible.


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## bzmum (Feb 18, 2008)

Like all things parenting, the real answer is "it depends." I definitely think that one should work with their child to come up with the solution to a problem to prepare them for life as an adult in our society. They must be responsible for their actions. If that means that they must toss a toy that they have broken, so be it. If, however, they have damaged something that belongs to a friend, sibling or stranger that is not fixable, then it must be replaced. That's how life is...if they don't earn money, then it is reasonable for it to be "worked off" but if they do have money, then they should be held financially responsible. If we were to have a car accident, we would be held responsible for our actions, even if they weren't deliberate....and it wouldn't matter if the money were our savings, birthday money or employment earnings.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I said ten and up, but my daughter didn't care about money before age ten. So, if I'd used that as a consequence before that age, it wouldn't have had much meaning.

Some kids like and understand money long before age ten though.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommaLura* 
Depends on the child, but I voted for teenagers because they are capable for earning the money or choosing to use their personal savings.

My cousin at 19 threw a huge party in our townhome (owned by her parents) and some how in their drunken state and too many people they broke the floor of the house (literally, it bounced!). Thankfully I chose to stay elsewhere since I don't like parties. She had to get a job and pay for the repair of the floor and had to personally clean a very sticky downstairs. It taught her a valuable lesson and I don't think she had the slightest idea about the cost of repairs before this incident. HTH

I think that an adult living in your home that throws a drunken party so wild that it ruins the floor is pretty distant in relationship to a kid that mars a table.

But then one of the choices offered did reference adults I think....


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mild_adventurer* 
Can't a child be held responsible AND get support? Why does it have to be one or the other? Our children are all 8+ and when they purposefully damage a household item or another family member's property, we try to find a balance between holding them responsible for their actions and working with them to understand why they did what they did and what they might need from us.

I think the blatent abdication of responsibility - especially for older children - could set the stage for dangerous entitlement/narcissitic behavior later down the road.

I'm having trouble imagining a kid intentially damaging someone else's property without some underlying issue.

Where'd did you get blatent abdication of responsibility? Having your parents express profound concern about what is going on and work to address the problems doesn't abdicate anyone's responsibility. I'd feel I was abdicating my responsibility if I didn't work to figure out what in the world had happened.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Well, I've been away from the thread (not able to check) because of having a child in the hospital (who is thankfully home now, and OK). That in itself was an ordeal, just trying to get everything cleaned up.

I was sort of vague before. This has to do with my 6.5 y.o.. She's very stubborn/strong willed about things too. We had this sort of destruction happen twice. BOTH within the first week of school starting. In kindergarden was when she cut holes in a few things--a sleeper outfit she didn't like, cut off a chunk of our fabric blinds, a few snips in her school uniform. Part of it I think was what I would refer to as exploratory, I think the other part of it was due to the stress/household routine change. She did those things in her room. As a result I talked to her, explained how it was wrong, that if she was not feeling good about something, or was feeling overwhelmed with an emotion she needed to tell me first, etc. So, we put the scissors up even higher in a different locked closet.

She's the ONLY kiddo who has drawn on the wall as well, unfortunately to the point where we have to repaint (couldn't wash it off as when we did it was removing the paint!). The weird thing is, making her clean it off (which we do, because it only really improves it slightly) doesn't do anything because she likes to do that. Taking away privelages doesn't seem really that effective for her either. I try to focus on positive things that she can do with her pent up energy. And, mostly it works, but not always. She's also a lot like me, which is helpful in the sense that I seem to be able to uniquely understand what her feelings are. But, I unfortunately cannot always deal with all kids equally at one time. So, sometimes things do happen.

Then, this year in first grade it was again around the first week of school. She was doing her homework of copying her spelling words (yes they have homework







) while her younger brother colored both at the table, I was sitting on the couch helping her older sister read her book. I went to check the work afterwards and we left all her school stuff out on the table so that dad could look it over and sign it when he got home shortly. Then, when I put it away I saw she had several drawings she'd done on the table (she must have taken a pen from somewhere...we lock our pens up, but she could have taken one from school or snuck one from DH when he was doing her work). She drew them in pen, and pushed so hard she pushed at least a mm deep into the table, leaving permament marks. And, she wasn't "unsupervised" in the sense that when she did the table thing I was maybe only 8 or 9 feet away. But, it's easy to hide what you're doing when you have lots of books/notebooks/backpack there. And, the drawing she did on the table would only take maybe 30 seconds to do!

Then about two days later I started noticing some damage (which likely was done before). One of the straps on her brother's shoes were cut off, and then I found a whole in the stuffed animal. We then went through her backpack and found her school scissors (we know because they are labeled with her name) and basically she snuck them home. Scissors are a 'hot commodity around here' because I know from the first experience to keep them under lock and key!

She didn't really have any good answers when I asked her why she did this. I think the new stress of a new situation has been difficult, and I think she's also pretty bored with school academically. I've been working on addressing the academic issues (her new teacher started her on the beginning level of the books though her kindergarden teacher recognized her reading strengths and she had already completed the first three levels--this new teacher does NOT recognize that and put her back with all the beginning students). I think it's a stress issue. So, we've talked about all of it. I still do lots of advanced reading with her at home, and btw there have been no problems with behavior like this since the incident at the beginning of the school year.

So, she knows that somehow she's going to have to 'pay off' for the table. She also did the same thing to her table in their bedroom, but I don't care as much about that as it's not really as obvious and it's not a nice cherry wood dining table! But either way she has to 'pay off' for doing these things. I've reminded her of this, yet we've been so busy/sickness and stuff popping up both tables have not been repaired yet.

So, what I'm really trying to do is come up with a way that she can put in some real 'work' for what she's done. Something that will feel like work (not just fun time repairing it with mom). KWIM? I want her to understand why it's important to take care of these things too. I already talked to her and told her to think about what it's going to look like on the table when we have thanksgiving. She made a comment about us getting a tablecloth, but then I reminded her about the problems with babies and tablecloths, etc. And, that we liked to be able to do crafts on the table too.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Sounds like a kid with a lot of trouble transitioning to school. Whatever you do about "paying," perhaps consider looking at what underlying difficulties she's trying to tell you.

Does she get angry when she's anxious?


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## chirp (Feb 9, 2008)

i voted ten or up...although i agree with a pp who commented that just using saved money from previous gifts would not be very effective.

instead my child would do chores worth certain monetary values (not their usual chores) or they would offer up something of value in return.

of course, depending on the cost of the damage, i may just make him pay for a percentage of the cost to repair/replace...having the child pay for damage three months later would be a little overkill in my book (not trying to offend anyone..i haven't read all responses). SO depending on the damage I'd probably have like a 4 week of allowance and chore-doing cut-off point.

eta: i just read your whole situation OP...in this situation I would be just as lost and frustrated as you are. unfortunately only being allowed scissors and pens etc. under adult supervision is what i first would have thought of. but since you tried that...and she pretty much enjoys doing chores...i'm at a loss. my babe is only 18 months, so i have limited experience. i think attempting to hold her financially responsible is a good idea. Other than those ideas...i'm having trouble coming up with more logical and natural consequences...besides you getting all Gestapo on her butt and doing backpack checks and having to play with her bedroom door open, and all that. I agree that pinpointing her exact mood when she's doing this will help GREATLY. good luck!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

For the table, I would ring a good french polisher and ask them to come around and quote for the repair. I'd consider having her there whilst he quotes for the bill and I'd emphasise, not that the money has to come from her savings, but that the money has to come from somewhere: so there might be less xyz in the family grocery shop. There might be less money for Christmas, less money for a family trip out somewhere. That's the consequence here. I've never seen a "repairing stupid things the kids have done without thinking" column in a family budget.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I think fixing your wrongs starts at a young age around 2ish --with wiggle room for different development. There is not an absolute, it doesn't need to be done everytime at a young age.

at 2 - "Oh you broke OC toy. How do we fix it? We say we are sorry and offer to replace it."

at 4 "Oh you broke OC toy. How can we fix it? Apologizing good. How about replacement? Maybe extra chores to help replace it." If it does not need to be replaced taking a trip to a store and finding a like item to show cost can help.

7 and up you start making connections how carelessness, willfull, et inconvients others and they should replace offer restitution for what they broke. There are times you have to let it go. That table, as angry as you are, does not really matter. She just gave it character. My son was about that age when he carved into a dresser and baseboard....we look and laugh at it now.

You can discuss how it cannot be cheaply fixed. Or look into ways to repair it yourself.


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## Noelle C. (Sep 3, 2009)

Definitely if a child understands full well something isn't allowed and does it anyway, hello, Responsibility!! Children learn ipulse control at least partly through having to take responsibility. If "children don't have impulse control" is used as an excuse, then a child won't learn control.

Now perhaps 100% financial responsibility is a bit much for a small child, but something, even a few dollars, teaches them that bad actions have real consequences. That table that was carved up has value to someone just as the child values money, and money will replace what was damaged.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Noelle C.* 
If "children don't have impulse control" is used as an excuse, then a child won't learn control.

First, I used "children don't have impulse control" as an excuse, and my dd did indeed learn impulse control. At some age, they just don't have it.

I encourage my 7-year-old dd to make amends in some way or another when she does something wrong.

Hmm. To the OP. I'd react to it differently with a very young child. At some ages, it isn't reasonable to expect to be able to leave scissors out around a child. I mean, if a 3-year-old is cutting blinds, it's different than if an 8-year-old is. Or straps on sandals or whatever. So if the child is very young, I'd consider it an issue of inadequate supervision. If my 7-year-old did that, I think she and I would discuss how we could make the problem better, and that might involve her helping to pay to fix it. It would depend on the specifics. I can't imagine her doing anything like that. I think I'd be more worried about what prompted that level of destructiveness than how we were going to fix what was destroyed.

So, your dd is close to my dd's age. I'd be trying to figure out why she did it, but I'd be working with her to fix what was broken in some way.


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## mgossett (Sep 27, 2009)

I don't think taking money from their savings (money being saved for college, car, etc. given by family members) will teach a young child to behave. They don't understand the value of money because they are provided for. A child who misbehaves needs to be disciplined immediately, and not see the result of his/her actions down the road (emptied savings account). However you decide to discipline there needs to be FOLLOW THROUGH and CONSISTENCY.

If the child is a boy, leave the discipline up to his father or male figure. Us women tend to get emotional about how to handle wild boys and their destructiveness.


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## chirp (Feb 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mgossett* 
I don't think taking money from their savings (money being saved for college, car, etc. given by family members) will teach a young child to behave. They don't understand the value of money because they are provided for. A child who misbehaves needs to be disciplined immediately, and not see the result of his/her actions down the road (emptied savings account). However you decide to discipline there needs to be FOLLOW THROUGH and CONSISTENCY.

If the child is a boy, leave the discipline up to his father or male figure. *Us women tend to get emotional about how to handle wild boys and their destructiveness.*

that's QUITE a generalization.

and in my case would totally exclude the possibility of immediate consequences...since dh is at work all day.

and actually after a moments thought i realize that dh actually gets more emotionalyl distraught over "bad behavior" since he is not used to dealing with it as much as i am. and he is more attached to our material possessions than i am. he is much more prone to yelling and cold-shouldering.


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## bronxmom (Jan 22, 2008)

Knowing the actual situation helps a lot. It sounds like she gets super-stressed around school; this is how she acted out. As things have settled, the behavior went away. I'm less worried about "paying back", esp for a first-grader who has a really hard time understanding monetary value (as opposed to use value).

I would use this calm time to talk to her about what stresses her at school and brainstorm together ways that she can express/let go of that stress that are not destructive to other people or other people's things. I'd also talk about what it means when things get destroyed and ask her for suggestions about how to make it better. Honestly, the table sounds like she was angry and dug deep while drawing and it went through to the table - that's irresponsible but it doesn't sound like it was intentional destruction of the table.

She's still growing - there's a lot of time for her to learn this. Sounds like the trajectory is in the right direction but stress makes it harder for her. Patience seems like a key thing here.

I don't agree with others that somehow if we don't "teach" our kids responsibility through consequences then they won't learn. I think kids, like people generally, are basically good and kind. Our job is to help them understand and learn empathy and the impact of their actions on others; we can do that primarily through modeling it ourselves and through explaining to them how what they say/do impacts others. Consequences, 90% of the time imo, doesn't add to that learning process; instead, it's a behavioral technique focused on producing a certain behavior and focuses kids on what it means to them (they get punished) rather than what it means to others. For ex., making a kid pay for the damage to the table doesn't really teach her what it costs to mom & dad, what that table meant, why being careless with other people's things hurts them - it teaches her that she gets in trouble. MIGHT help produce a desired behavior but does it teach the life lesson we're trying to get across?


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bronxmom* 
Consequences, 90% of the time imo, doesn't add to that learning process; instead, it's a behavioral technique focused on producing a certain behavior and focuses kids on what it means to them (they get punished) rather than what it means to others. For ex., making a kid pay for the damage to the table doesn't really teach her what it costs to mom & dad, what that table meant, why being careless with other people's things hurts them - it teaches her that she gets in trouble. MIGHT help produce a desired behavior but does it teach the life lesson we're trying to get across?

Yeah, we've talked A LOT. And, I think it has helped. She doesn't handle stress well (why would any kid?). Thankfully our environment has been really good overall, but we're all even frustrated by the school stuff. Sigh.

With the table, I think I'll have her repair it with me (I need to research how to do it). I'll share with her the story on how we got the table, where we were and all the details. I think she'll like the 'story' of how this was the first major purchase of nice furniture that Daddy and I made 14 years right after we got married.


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## 34me (Oct 2, 2006)

This poll really made me think. My gut responce was to answer 10 years old. That's about the age that all of my kids seemed to "get" that our things all cost us money, we work hard for our money and if we have to spend it on items that we are replacing due to destructiveness, we can't do other things.

But also, this:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *noobmom* 
If my kid burned down my house, is there any way they could ever pay that back?

My now 13 yo son did burn our house down when he was 10. It was primarily all the inside but since it's a small house we lost all our possessions as well as our home for 5 months. How can you make a 10 yo pay $250,000







? Of course you can't. It was an accident; but one he could have prevented. So what we did was he had to demo it with us. He spent an entire weekend pulling down drywall, ripping up carpet, etc. It wasn't fun for him or us (or his sister). In fact it majorly sucked. But I think we all learned something.


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

If they are of an age and developmental level where money means something to them and they have some of their own, then I think it's appropriate. It's a feature of the world: we are responsible for making amends for damage that we cause.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

I chose "Other" because it depends on the age of the child, their understanding of money and the cost of the damage caused.

for example, intentionally damaging a dining room table as in the example--it would cost hundreds to buy a new table. That might be something appropriate for a teenager who can get an after school job to earn the $ to replace it.

It would not be an appropriate expectation for a young preschool/early elementary age child to save up hundreds of dollars to replace it.

That said, a younger child could be expected to contribute--like if the child is 5 years old, has $20 in the piggy bank and wants to go get a toy at the toy store, that $20 could go to replacing the expensive item they damaged and they have to start over saving. Is that a significant contribution toward the cost? Not really. But the point is there---you intentionally damage something, you need to make amends to replace. I think the child *would* understand the $$ going to that and having to start over saving for the toy, and that would be my point in doing it.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy* 
With the table, I think I'll have her repair it with me (I need to research how to do it). I'll share with her the story on how we got the table, where we were and all the details. I think she'll like the 'story' of how this was the first major purchase of nice furniture that Daddy and I made 14 years right after we got married.

i think this is a GREAT idea!!! you are showing her the true value of the table - not focusing on its monetary value.

dont erase the deep writing too much though.

that has now added memory to the table and 15 20 years from now as you sit at it with your gchildren you can show them what their mommy or aunt did when they were younger.

and with her other things. just hang in there. you know this too shall pass. i know what's its like to have a child figure out how to handle the stresses and anxiety.

would you believe me if i said i would much rather have my dd 'destroy' stuff than come home down and despondent as she does sometimes.

i really like it that you talk to her a lot. that makes a HUUUUUUUGE difference to our kids you know. its almost like you are accepting them for who their are, their uniqueness - and not merely as children.


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## pjs (Mar 30, 2005)

When I read the thread title, my first thought was "yeah, like ds (7.5) gouging my dining room table wiht his fork/pencil/whathaveyou!

He has done this repeatedly- in fact I got very angry wiht him the other day after he peppered the table with his sharp pencil point many, many times and not more than 60 seconds later he thrust his sharpened pencil into it as hard as he could!

I'm reluctant to say he has mental issues simply because of his propensity to do this. But he has always been a spirited kid. Obviously I wouldn't make him buy a whole new table, but he has to learn to respect others' things. I think largely for him it is a desire/curiosity to see what's going to happen. Who knows- maybe he's the next greatest wood or marble sculptor!


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I think a good way to approach it is to repair it together, or shop together, or whatever. That way you have a chance of reconnecting emotionally and finding out if anything is going on underneath, while giving the life lesson that they should make restitution for those kinds of things.

I don't think it's a problem if the solution is "fun." Honestly in my life sometimes the best things have come out of my mistakes and my willingness to address them (um, when I have been in a place to do that). The lesson is not that you suffer endlessly but that you know if you screw up, fix it... and also it's easier not to screw up in the first place.

While I think sometimes buying their way out is okay, my inclination is pretty much to always look for something more time intensive and bonding.

And for the poll I said about 8 and up. My understanding is 9 is the legal age of reason - the age at which, legally, if you say to a child "don't go down to the lake" and they do, then it's not so much your liability, whereas at age 8, it's your responsibility to make sure they never have unsupervised access to the lake. Obviously that's a ballpark age, but it seems universal enough.


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