# Penn & Teller debunking circ -- anyone got any info on this? (Update: it's true!)



## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

I have just heard a rumor that among the topics Penn & Teller will be covering in the next season of their "Bullsh*t!" program is CIRCUMCISION









This is a popular mainstream program on Showtime. Big exposure here.

I'm searching for more information on it but haven't found any yet, if you have something more concrete than this, please do share!


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

I found two things:

Here is a link to the schedule. It's showing starting April 25, 26, 29 and May 6. NOI

http://www.sho.com/site/schedules/pr...6&seriesid=134

http://mrkurlychek.blogspot.com/2004...k_archive.html

"After the show was over I congratulated Penn on his recent wedding and asked him about the subjects for the forthcoming season of Bullshit. He told me that a circumcision show was going to be one of the highlights."

Do we have any idea of what Penn's stance is? This could be a feather in our cap or it could be just a bunch of junk.

Frank


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

I *think* Penn Jillette is intact. I could be pulling that out of my butt though.


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## gethane (Dec 30, 2003)

I've watched several of the shows, and from what I've seen, I highly doubt it will be pro-circ







I hope I'm right. This could be a very good thing.


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## feebeeglee (Nov 30, 2002)

They are skeptical libertarian atheists. There's no way they'll be pro-circ. I just don't see how. Please somebody tape it pleeeeeeease please PLEASE because I don't have cable!


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

I don't have Showtime, either. But season 1 and 2 of P and T are for sale, so apparently season 3 (which this is) will be for sale at a later date, as well. If it's good, we could buy copies!


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## Itlbokay (Dec 28, 2001)

I have never seen that show, but I like them.

I could totally see them using comedy to show the stupidity of circumcision.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quoting the Showtime website:

"No matter how popular a form of bullsh*t is - and regardless of what deep pockets or beloved figures support it - Penn & Teller are pit bulls for the truth, poised to tear down these myths in the most jaw-dropping fashion possible with their trademark wit and off-center comic sensibilities."

Sounds like this could be really good!


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## Itlbokay (Dec 28, 2001)

I can't believe that I just cancelled Showtime!


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

They are intactivists, according to their webmistress:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/threa...&lp=1112406984


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## feebeeglee (Nov 30, 2002)

Well aren't you clever just to go ask!

YAY!


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## gethane (Dec 30, 2003)

This is such great news. They have such wide exposure. I go to another site, a place where self proclaimed "skeptics" reside, and several months ago there was a thread where the same old myths kept getting brought up. You'd think skeptics would actually DO research. Hopefully, with Penn and Teller doing a show on it, it will open their eyes.


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## shishkeberry (Sep 24, 2004)

OO, I want to see it!


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## MonicaS (Oct 27, 2002)

I used to really enjoy that show when we had Showtime. I'm sad I won't be able to see it, but I will certainly be getting the DVD when it comes out. This should be good.


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## *Milk-Fairy* (Jun 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*
They are intactivists, according to their webmistress:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/threa...&lp=1112406984

I'm so glad you asked (and can't WAIT to see that episode-especially with DH who loves P&T but isn's so supportive of our/my decision to not circ our baby)

ANYWAY-the last post on that thread is this:

***********************************

I hope P&T read this before deciding to "debunk" the idea that male circumcision has no real health benefits. Male circumcision substantially decreases the chances of infecting female partners with HPV (by about 60%), which is responsible for the majority of cervical cancer cases. It saves women's lives, as well as decreases the male's chances of becoming infected.

http://www.agi-usa.org/pubs/journals/3421602b.html

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/...ct/346/15/1105

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...54/ai_n8705007

The fact that this study was published in the New England Journal of Medicine means it has passed peer review.

Tex666

**************************

Can someone "debunk" that post please???


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## Paddington (Aug 25, 2003)

milk-fairy--i was just thinking the same thing.


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## feebeeglee (Nov 30, 2002)

I posted but it hasn't shown up yet. I debunked.


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## Simplicity (Mar 24, 2004)

I look forward to this new season. Although I didn't agree with everything they talked about in the last season it's an interesting show. I'm very interested to see what they say about this too.

I never really did like them in the past, however, this show is very good sometimes, and crappy other times. Laugh.


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

I wrote one of my "books" and posted it. It didn't show up yet because it has to go through the moderator first. We'll see if it shows up.

Frank


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Well someone else already posted a nice, concise rebuttal







I hope you guys' posts show up.


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## WinterBaby (Oct 24, 2002)

I saw the posts on penn and tellers site from users here and they are great


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

I just got finished reading the whole thread at
http://www.network54.com/Forum/thre...5&lp=1112406984
I must respond to the comment that activists against circumcision are using unfounded arguements, specifically concerning sexual damage.
I think I read a statement that Marilyn Milos wrote about this. Can anyone help me find it?
I don't have TV but would love to see this episode. Hope I can get it.


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

Ann:

The poster you are talking about, Jake WW, is Jake Waskett. He is a gay English man who is a circumcision fetishist. He is a member and leader in all of the circumcision fetish groups such as The Acorn Society, The Gilgal Society and Circlist. He is very well versed and well known on most of the circumcision debate boards for the troubles he causes. The best case scenario is that that will be his only post there. The worst case is that he tries to destroy the thread. If you have to ask for help, you are going to a gunfight with a water pistol. The only way to defeat him is to verbally tie him in knots.

Frank


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## ~Kira~ (Sep 16, 2004)

Jake?










*sigh*

S'funny how deeply in denial he is. Also interesting that he persists in mentioning the Bleustein study which didn't test the foreskin!!!

I haven't posted on the Penn & Teller thread, but if anyone feels like taking him on, PM me - I'll send you what you need.









Really, it doesn't get much simpler than this though:

LOST NERVES = LOST SENSATION

(which he's unable to refute)

Of all the circum-fetishists I know of, he is possibly the most obsessed with convincing parents to cut on their babies. Sick sick sick..... uke


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## ared1 (Dec 13, 2003)

That is awesome!


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Kira~*
Jake?
Also interesting that he persists in mentioning the Bleustein study which didn't test the foreskin!!!

Hmmm

Anyway, looks like someone else stepped up to the plate to respond to Jake.

I'm not up for a long debate here. I'll stick to talking to pregnant friends for a while.








I brought up my thoughts about keeping boys intact with a gay man I know well and the subject was dropped faster than a hot potato. What's with that? I guess I'll have to ask him.


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## SeanaRain (May 25, 2004)

Looks like Circ is going to be on on April 25th. (Double check...that's from memory.) There is a blurb in the newest TV Guide re: the episode, too.


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## Thmom (May 4, 2004)

who can I convince to tape this for me? I have a pg client who may actually watch this but not sure I can wait till it comes out on DVD.


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## Simplicity (Mar 24, 2004)

I can not wait to see this!


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## AmandaBL (Aug 3, 2004)

I'll Tivo it & if I can figure out how to copy it I'll gladly send it out for cost to anyone who "needs" it. I absolutley love this show, even though I've disagreed with them on occasion. It's so funny. I just can't wait!!!!! Can't wait!!!!!


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

We don't get Showtime, so I would gladly pay for a copy! It's very easy to download from TiVo to VCR.


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## MA mommy (Feb 5, 2003)

Hits & Misses, p 45 current issue

Quote:

_Bull_ may not end circumcision, but it's a great argument against full-frontal nudity. *MY SCORE: 7*


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## AmandaBL (Aug 3, 2004)

I don't have the Tivo brand - it's the one from my cable company, but I saw an option "copy to VCR" so it can't be that hard. DH will figure it out this week. He says it's easy, but he said that about fixing the toilet that is now shattered, so we'll see.







: How about anyone who wants one send me a tape and $3.85 postage and I'll get you one. That's how I do CD's and it seems to work well.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

If someone is uber computer Saavy, they could a: Tivo it, then figure out how to xfer it to their PC *through TV card if one has it* then convert it to AVI so I can DL it from you off of Soulseek.

Ah heck, I do think itll be out on Soulseek or Kazaa the day after it comes on TV

Ah heck, I REALLY should put the birds to bed and go snooze off this allergen induced sinus headache...*stoopid fragrances...should be outlawed I swear..


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

It's going to be playing a couple of other dates.........April 29th and May 6th, I think. Maybe we'll get Showtime just so I can watch it!

You can watch a 1 minute video preview here:

http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/topics.do

From this clip, it seems that P & T are huge intactivists....... they are listening to a female doctor talk about the "soft straps" on the circumstrant, and how "with the Gomco clamp there is zero chance of hurting the baby's penis......" (I just have to point out the irony of this statement)

etc. and P & T are in the background saying, "I guess you don't have to secure the baby's arms because he can't punch yet," and "I guess it's not a human rights violation because the _straps_ are soft! Where's Amnesty International!"


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## AmandaBL (Aug 3, 2004)

I made the mistake of clicking on that video link - I heard "When I do circumcisions, the baby usually tolerates it really...." and I shut it. It hurts me to watch anyone even TALK about it. Did I miss anything interesting? I LOVED the little blurb andout men feeling regret & covering their privates.


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## AmandaBL (Aug 3, 2004)

I obviously stoped reading the above post when I clicked on the link







sorry for the stupid question.


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Oh, that ROCKED!

I don't agree with them on everything. But they will be my permanent heroes and I can forgive anything else if they kick the







out of RIC on prime time Showtime


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## calngavinsmom (Feb 19, 2003)

That link won't work for me because I'm not in the U.S.! How unfair









Tara


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Anyone out there who can tape the show for me?

I have asked everyone I know and they don't get showtime.
Please pm me.
Like someone else said...... I'd pay.

Thanks


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## AmandaBL (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmandaBL*
I'll Tivo it & if I can figure out how to copy it I'll gladly send it out for cost to anyone who "needs" it. I absolutley love this show, even though I've disagreed with them on occasion. It's so funny. I just can't wait!!!!! Can't wait!!!!!


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

I'd love a copy also. Thanks!


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

!! i







Penn & Teller!!


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## AmandaBL (Aug 3, 2004)

I'm going to WM today to see how much tapes are. I'll let you know the cost.

It addressed everything - how it's done, does it cause disease, why was it ever started, the foreskins function & the money motive. It spoke to the lady from nocirc, a Dr. from DOC, and talked about restoration. There's plenty of swearing & penis jokes... it's on showtime, so there's no limit, but 99% of the info was right on & it gives a really modern spin to this debate. It showed a number of circs (I was shaking by then - I've never watched one) and showed babies reaction from screaming to sleep & explained that the baby who looks like he's about to go to sleep is in neurologic shock from the trauma.

Excuse the language, but at the end he said it best "The first rule of medicine is do no harm. We've showed that circumcision is F$%^ing bad AND bad for F$%^ing, so to all you penis butchers out there, PUT DOWN THE KNIFE!!!!! STEP AWAY FROM THE BABY!!!! and do no harm!" WooooooooooHooooooooooo!!!!


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## Paddington (Aug 25, 2003)

it sounds as if it was designed to really shake people up. i of course don't have the premium channels so will definitely have to try and get my mother to tape it for me when it comes on again. i checked out the website and it is airing again on Showtime Too tonight at 9pm and on Showtime on the 29th at 10 pm.


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## gethane (Dec 30, 2003)

I'm afraid to watch it. I love the show and we've rented lots of them off netflix, but I've never watched a circ and I'm afraid to. I did circ my first son (who's now 14) and I just don't know if I can bear to live with those images


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## AmandaBL (Aug 3, 2004)

I'm going to go buy tapes today & will let everyone who PMed me know the cost via PM. It's looking like it'll be around $6 with priority mail shipping, but I'll PM you once I know for sure. If anyone who Hasn't PMed me yet decides you want one, you'll probably need to send me a VHS cassette in the mail. I'll be in touch later today...


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## AmandaBL (Aug 3, 2004)

OK - here's who I have as wanting a tape. PLEASE PM me ONLY if this is wrong. I'll check my PM's again at 9am before I go buy the tapes.

Quirky
callumsmom2001
MonicaS
Messac888
falcon
Anguschick1
ared1
ryleeee
whateverdidiwants
mom2savannah_grace
MamaTT
kathryn

Last Call!............


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingbear*
Anyone out there who can tape the show for me?

I have asked everyone I know and they don't get showtime.
Please pm me.
Like someone else said...... I'd pay.

Thanks

Awwwwwwwww Shoot








I'm bummed that I missed getting onto your list AmandaBL.

I didn't' "get the picture" LOL) that I needed to pm you for a copy. And before I knew it you went out to get the tapes. Keep me posted what to do next for a copy. Thank you so much for offering these to everyone.


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## mommamonkey (Feb 9, 2005)

If anyone has a extra tape i would really really appreciate it, I can pay for cost.


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## AmandaBL (Aug 3, 2004)

I won't be able to make the tapes till after the 29th, so if anyone else needs on go ahead & PM me. I'm going to be making tapes forever!!!


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## katsam (Mar 3, 2005)

Just saw this today, I thought it was great!


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