# Riding in a car with unrestrained kids. Would you do it?



## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

We do not have our own family vehicle. I live downstairs from MIL, info on all of the drama in a million of my other posts.

Whenever there's a family get-together, we go in our inlaws truck. It's a ford explorer. Our two DDs RFing seats go in the 2nd row, center and passenger. There are three more unoccupied seats (aside from the driver and passenger front seats).

I usually ask who's going with (big family) and if there are too many people I don't go. Here are a few situations that arise...

A) Three people get squished in the 3rd row. There are only two seatbelts so nobody gets a seatbelt because the middle person has to sit on the female end of the seatbelts.

B) A correct amount of people (exact seatbelt to passenger ratio) are in the car, but whoever's in the 3rd row seat doesn't buckle themselves.

C) The other situations were regarding adults or teenagers. In this situation two children ride in the third row. They're 4 and 8 (8yo is as big as a 5yo). Yesterday, they just jumped into the back of the truck last minute (FIL invited). They're DHs cousins children, and live in the same building as us. Their dad went as well (the parents are not very fond of me for various reasons, they think I have a "Holier than thou" attitude which I kind of do when it comes to them.) Before he got in the car I asked his kids if they could please put on their seatbelts, which they did, but they put the shoulder belts in back of them.

So... egh. What would _you_ be okay with? I feel incredibly irresponsible but I don't want to be the bad person and pull my DD1 out of the situation (i.e. the car is unsafe because there's unrestrained people so we cannot go to the waterpark/party/etc like we planned).

How the heck do I remove us from that situation? MIL and FIL do NOT care if there's unrestrained passengers in back of the car. I have explained this. My DD cannot attend family functions and parties etc. if we don't go with them.

I cannot afford a car right now. A little guidance, please.


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## pampered_mom (Mar 27, 2006)

I don't know...that's a tough one. I want to say that I wouldn't go with just because I wouldn't want to be responsible if something were to happen or we were to get into an accident. That being said, it's never happened to me.

It did happen to my dh, though. When his parents and his sister (with her two kids) were in town. His Dad, himself, and his niece went to go pick up pizza. On the way back my dh was going to put her (2yo) in her carseat. His Dad told him not to and insisted that she could sit in the seat. She ended up wearing a seatbelt...but dh was hesitant to push things. When they got back dh's sister made some comment about how her dad was "spoiling" her child by letting her sit there sans carseat. Spoil...endanger the life of her child...yeah...that's the same.

I told dh next time he should say something or call me to come pick him up which seems so extreme, but yet in our state you can be pulled over if you're not wearing your seatbelt and failure to have your child properly restrained is a fairly hefty ticket (~$400).

Can you look up your state laws and see what the fines might be? Maybe if faced with the threat of a ticket they might reconsider?

In the end we made sure that our children knew that they were *never* to ride in a car without being buckled into their seat. We told them to tell whoever it was that they need to be buckled in because their mom and dad say so. It makes me hesitant to let the ILs take them anywhere. If we ever do I think we'll make it clear that riding in the car without being in their carseats is a one strike kind of thing.

meh...not sure if that's helpful.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks







The whole ticket legal stuff tactic doesn't work- we live in big city Chicago and no one gets pulled over for it. Occasionally there are seatbelt checkpoints but I haven't seen one in a LONG time.


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## liliaceae (May 31, 2007)

So have you told them you want the other passengers to be restrained because, in an accident, they could become projectiles that could kill you or your children?


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Yeah. They think I'm an overzealous overprotective mother. Where they were born, there are no passenger restraint laws for anyone. I don't know if that's a factor. It seems like common sense to me and I don't get why they don't "get" it.


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## LovnMyBoys (Jan 21, 2008)

My biggest rule for me when it comes to safety issues for my kids is that I want to know I did everything in my power to keep them safe should anything bad happen. My immediate two thoughts when reading this is that I would never want to see any other children injured in a vehicle I was riding in, but also that the safety of my children would be put at risk with other acting as projectiles. As a mother I'm totally not okay with this, and I wouldn't care what anyone thought about me when it comes to that.
I know the family politics can get in the way when you are living so close and must depend on thier vehicle at some times, but still not good enough for me in terms of safety. I would definitely stay home.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
Yeah. They think I'm an overzealous overprotective mother. Where they were born, there are no passenger restraint laws for anyone.

Yes, but folks drove slower then. My mom says she always drove 30 around town in the 1960's ... and most other folks did, too.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks. I'm just going to stay home. I guess it shouldn't matter what they think of me- I need to do what I have to do to protect my kids. I just hate being made feel like I'm batty or something for wanting my kids to be safe.

philomom- I meant that in their native country, there are no laws about it. Even currently.


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## shanniesue2 (Jul 4, 2007)

No, I wouldn't. And I have turned down giving a ride in the past b/c of it.

There was a lady that I worked with and she had 3 young children (all under 5-- one of them only a year old). She asked for a ride home and if I could stop so she could get her kids on the way home. My first question was if she had car seats for them. And she didn't. So I told her no, that I was not willing to risk driving young children who weren't properly restrain. Then it occurred to me, and I added that I didn't even have enough seatbelts to fit 4 extra people in my car (I own a vibe, 5 seatbelts to 6 people and 4 of those people needing car seats... no way no how).

She was nice enough about when we were talking, but she walked away quickly. And when it was time to go home, I saw her crying by the front door. I'm not really sure how she managed to get home and I feel badly that I wasn't able to be more helpful, but Iif I'm driving, I just am not willing to put people (children or otherwise) at such high risk of severe injury or death by allowing them to ride unrestrained. I think that a person's life is worth some temporarily hurt feelings. And I don't say that lightly b/c I am pretty passive when it comes to any kind of confrontation.


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

Where does your dh stand on this. It really should be him that brings this up with his family.

I watched something once about an accident where there were 5 people in a vehicle, one unrestrained. In this particular accident the unrestrained person flying around ended up being the cause of death for 3 of the other people!

Stay home. Hopefully they'll get the message & smarten up.


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## JoyofBirth (Mar 16, 2004)

I am very non-confrontational and I'm often made fun of for my parenting views. I'm often called overzealous with car seats. I actually had a fight with my mother over my niece last week. I agree with the PP that I have to know that I've done everything I can do if something bad happens. I have refused to ride because of this issue. It made my dad very, very upset. He was mad at me for a while. I would rather walk 5 miles than take a risk. I've been in accidents and have felt the element of surprise and panic. You just can't predict the future. Can't you take public transportation. I grew up in Chicago and loved it that I could get anywhere as a teenager using public transportation.


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## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Your average 5 year old weighs about 2000 pounds in a crash going 40mph. So not only are the other kids at risk, but your LOs would be too.

So yeah... unless there's a life or death emergency, no I would not.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks







I really need to suck it up and stand up for what's right.

JoyofBirth- thank you for your story. I do live in Chicago, but we frequently go pretty far (Not sure if you're familliar with the surrounding suburbs but we go as far as Orland Park). Public transportation is often not possible, but I'm just going to stop going to functions if there's no safe way to get there.

Urchin_Grey, as mean as it may sound, I was actually not very concerned about the other children in the particular scenarios. I feel bad for them, but not much I can do about them. Their parents let them and their 2yo sister have a free for all in their own vehicle. Front seat, cargo space, wherever. I'm aware of the danger to my LOs... I just think I needed an extra push and some words of advice and some BTDT stories like JoyOfBirth posted







Thanks for the 2000lbs info though. I can picture that.


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## Oubliette8 (Apr 15, 2009)

If you head into Indiana ever they DO ticket for seatbelt violations. I know this because my stubborn old father got tired of paying the tickets and now (finally) just wears his seatbelt.

Thats a tough situation you describe. In my own car, I refuse to drive if everyone is not properly restrained- and that includes properly positioning their shoulder belt. If I'm riding in a car thats not my own, I'll speak up if someone is not properly restrained, but in the end, its not my car, I don't have much say, yk? However, pointing out that what they are doing is unsafe and pushing the point a bit normally gets them to buckle up right. Of course, normally the driver of the car agrees with me and simply didn't realize their passenger was unbuckled. I guess, if I was chronically uncomfortable with someones driving or car safety habits, I'd make an effort to find rides with other people. Car safety just isn't something I like to mess around with.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

I insist that people I'm riding with buckle up when my children are in the car. If they don't want to wear their shoulder belt, whatever, but if they're going be a potential projectile that could launch into my babies then we're getting out.

I haven't had anybody insist on going unbelted when I put it that way


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## SC_Jan (May 19, 2010)

If I'm driving then we're going by my rules. End of story. I would hate myself forever if anyone were hurt or killed because I wimped out. I'm a really big pushover about most things but there are times where I draw the line.

_Now I'm thinking of myself as the minivan czar and getting crazy with my own power!_


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## Katie T (Nov 8, 2008)

I wouldn't go. It is sad for you little girl to miss the fun but my rule is no unrestrained people in the vehicle period. I have gotten into fights with adults in MY vehicle even over it. They can buckle or get out (it is easier to say that when it is your car).

Don't feel bad, my MIL hates me because I use a booster for my 10yo, extend rf, and won't let the kids ride in the jump seat of her truck. My job isn't to make them like me it is to protect my kids no matter what it takes.

Will it make a difference if your DH says something?


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## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

I personally would never ride in a car with my kids where anyone is unrestrained. Any unrestrained person in an accident will cause disaster. I would use alternate transportation or not go at all.

This happens every now and then we we spend time down in Mexico with family. Car eat safety is nonexistent but we always bring our car seats and keep everyone restrained. We will not use the car with unrestrained passengers and everyone knows it so make always make other plans. There is always some way of working it out. Public transportation, taxi, friends car, etc.

If you travel at the low speed of 50 km/h (31 mph) and have a frontal collision any person will be thrown forward weighing 40 times their own weight. That's an enormous force which will crush anyone. A 190 lbs adult will then weigh 7600 lbs. Imagine 7600 lbs hitting your restrained child.....

Receiving a ticket wold be the last thing on my mind. It's very unlikely but IMHO totally irrelevant. Parents keep kids safe, not the law.


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## Farmer'sWife (Jul 11, 2009)

Does anyone know of any websites that spell out how dangerous an unrestrained passenger is to the other passengers in the vehicle? I have this same issue with my ILs...my 400 lb. FIL apparently thinks that his weight will keep him from flying around and my 21 yo BIL is invinceable of course. When we ride in my car I insist that everyone is buckled (they seem to be OK with "my car, my rules"), but it's hard to do when we are in their car.


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## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

Please take a look at this short article and video. It shows what happens to an unrestrained child (or adult) in a forward collision at the very low speed of 30 km/h )19 mph). It's quite dramatic. The car is not new but this is not relevant.

A good comparison for your IL is that colliding at 19 mph is the same as dropping a child (or adult) from a third floor balcony with head first. Ask if they want to try it....;-)


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

Absolutely not, because of this...

Quote:

So have you told them you want the other passengers to be restrained because, in an accident, they could become projectiles that could kill you or your children?
I watched a video on YouTube about a year ago that scared me enough to NEVER have anyone (or animal) in the vehicle unrestrained again...


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## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

Couldn't get the whole article, but his snippet says the belted passenger in front of an unrestrained passenger has a 2.28 times greater risk of death.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15692133

I know it's anecdotal evidence, but when I lived in Montana, an unrestrained grandfather was riding with his restrained pre-teen granddaughter when they got into an accident. His body crushed hers, she died, he survived. I so wish I could find the newspaper article...

In short, there will be no unrestrained passengers when I am driving. Period. The driver is boss, and has to answer for all passengers if an accident occurs.


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## lunarlady (Jan 4, 2010)

I always insist that every person in a vehicle I'm riding in wears their seatbelt. While I personally wouldn't want my 4 YO to ride without a booster, I don't really feel it is my place to insist on that level of safety for other people's kids. But I feel 100% comfortable asking other's to put on their belts. I have done so in the past when riding with coworkers, and most likely will agian in the future.

In the overcrowding situation, I've even insisted that two people share a belt or somebody not go. While I know belt sharing is not that safe, I think it is better than no belt at all, and can work out pretty good if the people in question are thin.

I know it is harder when it isn't your car, but I always think to myself how much worse it would be if I said nothing and we were in an accident where somebody died due to an unrestrained passenger. I can handle an awkward minute conversation much better than a lifetime of survivor guilt.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Thank you SOOO much everyone, especially for the anecdotal evidence, stats (thr 7600lb thing from AdventureDad) and the links.

My husband stands where I do and agrees with all of you- my kids are way more important than pleasing people and although it's sad for my DD to miss out on fun.. safety is something that shouldn't be comrpomised.


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## tangledblue (Apr 5, 2008)

Do they have Zipcar in Chicago? That might be a good solution for you.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

They do, but we're ridiculously broke and I don't know how much they cost. We also have something called Igo but I'm not sure about that either.

ETA: Oh, and DH and I are 20, you need to be 21 to use a rental vehicle. I don't drive either, so that's a bit of an issue as well.


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## notAClue (Jan 22, 2010)

My DH and I were walking through a parking lot the other day and saw a car with children in seat belts and a fairly good sized dog just roaming around. I said it was crazy and I would never let an animal be loose in the car because it could be dangerous to the people in the car during an accident. I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who feels this way.

Put you foot down! like lots of other people have said, it sucks for your kids, but not worth the risk.


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## P.J. (May 18, 2010)

I'm sorry I don't have time right now to read through all responses, but my answer is no friggin way!!!
When I was growing up, my mom wouldn't start the car until everyone was buckled up, and I plan to do the same when my baby is old enough to buckle himself.
I'm sorry your in-laws are careless and judging you, that makes this much harder. But having in-law problems is far preferable to having a dead or handicapped child, ya know? Accidents happen, it's so naive to think it won't happen to you (I mean your in-laws). You (and probably they too) wouldn'tbe able to live with yourself if something did happen and they hadn't been buckled up.

Just don't let it happen. Period. End of story.


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