# Why IS cosleeping perceived so negatively in our society???



## ap mom (Dec 23, 2006)

What IS it about cosleeping that causes people to react so negatively? It just seems so natural and I just cannot understand why *most* of society (at least IME in the US- can't speak for other cultures) is so adamantly against it.

I often hear negative comments about it but nothing specific about why people are opposed to it. I'm genuinely curious... is it the perceived safety issue? An independence issue?

What have you heard? We're committed to it no matter what others think but I always like to better understand different viewpoints.


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## queenbean (Apr 6, 2007)

It's because somewhere along the line, Western society has gotten it into our heads that anything natural must be "barbaric." Bedsharing is natural, as evidenced by the fact that it has been practiced throughout the millenia. Same goes for breastfeeding, especially with older toddlers and children. Westerners don't want to be associated with anything natural because they perceive it as barbaric and weird.

Also, nobody can make money off of it. After all, if you bedshare full-time, you don't have to buy a crib, crib sheets, bumper rail, baby monitor, or any of that stuff. If nobody can get rich off of it, it must not be any good... right?


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## MissMommyNiceNice (May 1, 2007)

Because everyone is so easily brainwashed by the marketing machine that runs our nation!

Cribs = Big $
Safety Scare Tactics = More Dr. Visits = Big $
CIO = Sicker Kiddos = More Dr. Visits = Big $
And so on and so on...

I am a student of the media, I'm completely fascinated by it. I watch way too much tv, and unlike most people, love to watch commercials. The machine is everywhere. And most people can't tell the difference between the Real Truth and what they are told is the truth by big brother and his well meaning government cronies.

They don't realize the whole thing is about making money off the back of some poor momma or poppa. They make them feel like a pariah if they do the most natural thing in the world. They make them think it is actually harming their child, instead of helping them. Then you have to buy a crib most people can't afford anyway, and then it leads to things like CIO & "formula is easier" and the machine marches forward! Consume! Consume! Consume!

You'd be surprised how many people actually do cosleep, but are afraid to tell anyone because they think it will make them a "bad parent".

Sorry, mini rant there! I'll get down of my







now!


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

i think it's a multifactorial issue.

1. babies are pushed to be as independent as possible at the youngest age possible, and sleeping alone is perceived as an important milestone to this end.

2. safety issue, people assume that suffocation by being rolled on by an adult is a common occurrance in the family bed.

3. the misperception of the marital bed being the sole locale of sexual intimacy. also, the common euphemism for having sex is "sleeping with". in our language and culture, it is weird to say "my baby sleeps with me".







:

4. commercialization and consumerism. look at any major home furnishing catalog and see the beautifully designed nurseries. it is the social norm for a separate room to be created for newborns. one of the main questions that moms are asked during pregnancy is "what is the theme for the baby's nursery", so this concept is ubiquitous. again,







:. you should have seen the looks of HORROR on people's faces when we told them that we didn't have a nursery, it's seen as a normal and essential part of preparing for baby's arrival.

5. not understanding that there is a great deal of bonding that occurs even during sleep.


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## dealic (Feb 25, 2007)

because its sick and you must be a pervert and a pedophile to want to sleep with your child.

Because I want a break from my child, and you make me feel guilty for wanting that

Because they did this study that says if I sleep with my child, they'll DIE!!!!


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## BethanyB (Nov 12, 2005)

-pak-

well, my sil and her dh are totally against it-in fact they don't even let their boys in their bedroom! (mainly his idea-he was raised by very strange parents who believed their bedroom was their "private place" and the children had no business in there)







they also cio'd. her rationale-at her preschool there are three couples who still co-sleep w/ their 3 yr. olds, and two of them are headed for divorce. it must be the co-sleeping, right? certainly there aren't other issues going on in those marriages







. it's b/c they can't have "relations" b/c their kids are in their bed. that's what both my sil and mil think!!! also i think it's still b/c of the sids risks and the mis-information surrounding sids that makes co-sleeping taboo. also-if you let them co-sleep they'll never move out of your bed







.despite all of this, our ds sleeps in his side-carred crib-but always ends up in our bed-and we all get plenty of sleep b/c of it!


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
i think it's a multifactorial issue.

1. babies are pushed to be as independent as possible at the youngest age possible, and sleeping alone is perceived as an important milestone to this end.

2. safety issue, people assume that suffocation by being rolled on by an adult is a common occurrance in the family bed.

3. the misperception of the marital bed being the sole locale of sexual intimacy. also, the common euphemism for having sex is "sleeping with". in our language and culture, it is weird to say "my baby sleeps with me".







:

4. commercialization and consumerism. look at any major home furnishing catalog and see the beautifully designed nurseries. it is the social norm for a separate room to be created for newborns. one of the main questions that moms are asked during pregnancy is "what is the theme for the baby's nursery", so this concept is ubiquitous. again,







:. you should have seen the looks of HORROR on people's faces when we told them that we didn't have a nursery, it's seen as a normal and essential part of preparing for baby's arrival.

5. not understanding that there is a great deal of bonding that occurs even during sleep.









:
I think there's also a feeling in our society that we're some how a "betterment" of the human race... raising ourselves above ancient cultures and how they did things. Personally, I'm sticking w/the anthropological viewpoint... there's a reason things worked for MILENIA


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## Marlet (Sep 9, 2004)

Everyone who has ever said anything negative to us about it was coming from the viewpoint of "that's a bad habit you don't want to start". My mom is the most vocal about it and she seriously thinks that by co-sleeping you are setting yourself up to have a non-independant child who is always climbing into bed with you. The funny thinng about this is growing up any time I or my siblings (6 of us total) got scared we were allowed to crawl into bed next to her. I remember doing it all the way up until my parents divorced and I was 6 or 7 at that point. After that I lived with my dad so it I stopped.







Based off that I think a lot of people see co-sleeping as over extending yourself. It's totally ok to have a kid crawl in to your bed because they are scared but why go the extra mile and have them before they have the chance to get scared type thinking.









ETA: We were also raised to stay out of our parents bedroom. Obviously there were times we were allowed in there but it wasn't a free for all room like the rest of the house. I think that taints their views as well. DH's parents have seperate rooms and always have. They were not totally off limits to the kids and they are more ok with co-sleeping. They have a unique sleeping situation anyway so I don't think they would question it regardless.


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## JamSamMom (Apr 17, 2007)

I have been heavily criticized for co-sleeping with my 4 year old since birth due to: Independance issue; less sleep for me; less sleep for her (she would sleep better in a crib) I like how everyone else knows what is best for me and my child and i do not have a clue! Another is the concern for less sex for me and my husband. Well mind your own business is what i say!!!! That is none of your business. People actually want to know how we manage sex as if we have sex in bed on top of our child. Well we do have more than one room in our house including a spare bedroom







: And then there are the rolling over on top of my child as if everyone who co-sleeps will roll over and kill thier child and is some form of child abuse. I am an RN and worked in ICU and yes there are irresponsible parents that drink and do drugs and give co-sleeping a bad name. I let people know there are safe ways to co-sleep and that is what we pratice. We also do not have sex in front of our child. Co-sleeping promotes independance and increases the child self esteem by meeting their needs. Of course no one i tell this to believes this.








Anyway good discussion, thanks for letting me vent on this topic.

Michelle


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## verde (Feb 11, 2007)

I think there's several reasons. In America, I think it's because we have such an emphasis on the individual and cosleeping somehow violates that concept. Many parents simply cannot imagine sharing their sacred space with their children because "it's MY space," and I deserve it. They also think that babies and children need to learn how to become individuals by sleeping alone.

My mother told me that when she had babies in the late 1950's and 60's, cosleeping was condemned as a violation of the infants right to her/his own space. You got that? That each baby DESERVED their own crib and that taking the baby into bed with you was cruel to the baby and greedy on the part of the parents. So cosleeping was actually taking something terribly important away from the baby.

Then we had the sexual revolution in the late 60's and 70's and the parental bed became synonymous with sex. If you have a child in your bed then how can you have sex every night? And of course, as we all know, couples have sex every night.


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## MissMommyNiceNice (May 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 
And of course, as we all know, couples have sex every night.









laughup


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## NotTheOnlyOne (Oct 23, 2006)

I think its a push to make children independent as well. Leave them in their beds and they will "learn" to fall asleep on their own. My brother and sil we asking me around 6 or 7 months when I was going to wean ds so he "wouldn't be so attatched" to me..... However, I must say that since I have had ds, my brother (who I am very close to) has been learning about AP and even talking to another friend of his who is AP.... I have great hope for the children the will hopefully have some day.

Independence isn't all its cracked up to be. Isnt that why we strive to keep our marriages together? Why we dress up and try to woo and seduce someone to be our partner? Because we don't want to be alone?








:


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## MidnightCommando (May 31, 2006)

I agree with all of the reasons posted before me but have to say that I've found that the perception of co-sleeping varies quite a bit depending on where you go. Idaho, which for the most part, is a very conservative and non-crunchy state. Surprisingly, I've found that more than a majority of people I've met or spoken with, co-sleep for the first 6 months. Even those that didn't or don't, have praised my decision to do so. The biggest voice of dissent has been my BF's mother, and only because she did it with all 5 of her kids and her last one did not leave the bed until he was 16.

Idaho can be a strange place. It seems like pro-co-sleep, middle of the road for breastfeeding, and pro-CIO (when the child after 6 months). I've kept in contact with many of my friends in New York (quite liberal state) and they have expressed their negative opinions about co-sleeping.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

It all started as a way to imitate the rich! Poor people slept with their babies, (and generally the whole family) while rich people hired a wet nurse who breastfed and slept with the baby. When the middle class became more prevalent, they could afford the seperate room, but not to pay someone to sleep there. So the babies slept alone.


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JamSamMom* 
And then there are the rolling over on top of my child as if everyone who co-sleeps will roll over and kill thier child and is some form of child abuse. I am an RN and worked in ICU and yes there are irresponsible parents that drink and do drugs and give co-sleeping a bad name. I let people know there are safe ways to co-sleep and that is what we pratice.
Michelle

The rolling over onto the baby is kind of a weird idea, isn't it? How many of us accidentally roll right off the bed? If we were sooooo unaware of what's around us when we sleep, wouldn't we fall out of bed every night?







:


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## WinterStar (Apr 2, 2007)

Baby sleeps with mum, baby wakes more often.
Waking baby => tired mum => miserable mum.

Baby sleeps in own room, baby sleeps 12 hours.
Baby sleeps 12 hours => happy mum.

And happy mum = happy baby! YAY, everyone's a winner!

That's the UK line ;o)


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## TypingMJ (Nov 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
i think it's a multifactorial issue.

1. babies are pushed to be as independent as possible at the youngest age possible, and sleeping alone is perceived as an important milestone to this end.

2. safety issue, people assume that suffocation by being rolled on by an adult is a common occurrance in the family bed.

3. the misperception of the marital bed being the sole locale of sexual intimacy. also, the common euphemism for having sex is "sleeping with". in our language and culture, it is weird to say "my baby sleeps with me".







:

4. commercialization and consumerism. look at any major home furnishing catalog and see the beautifully designed nurseries. it is the social norm for a separate room to be created for newborns. one of the main questions that moms are asked during pregnancy is "what is the theme for the baby's nursery", so this concept is ubiquitous. again,







:. you should have seen the looks of HORROR on people's faces when we told them that we didn't have a nursery, it's seen as a normal and essential part of preparing for baby's arrival.

5. not understanding that there is a great deal of bonding that occurs even during sleep.











Yes, all of that, exactly. kidspiration nailed it.


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## TirzhaZ (Jun 15, 2007)

All of my thoughts have been said already...but I'm a chatty girl so I'll reiterate!







I'll go ahead and speak solely from my experience with my own family. They are all pro formula, CIO, and making baby independant. Nobody ever co-slept or BF (except me, of course) and I think after generation upon generation of this behavior, they've just become unable to be attached to anyone. My family is unable to show pure, raw emotion to their children (again, except for me.) The children are all unable to show that emotion to their parents. I act buddy-buddy with my mom, but I can't actually look her in the eye and have a heart to heart talk with her. I can do this with my husband and will be able to do it with my daughter, but I've had to teach myself. Americans generally don't want to be overly "involved" with anyone including their own children. It's a little off topic, but I think that's why I see so many young kids walking by themselves along busy roads on my way home from work. There isn't one reason co-sleeping isn't accepted by the vast majority, it's a lot of reasons all deep-seeded in our pasts. Does any of this make sense. I'm sort of typing as I think and that doesn't always go well!! My point is, we're a society of convenience. Some people just don't see the convenience in co-sleeping. It's easier when you stick to the plan of keeping baby in his room from the beginning so you don't have to worry about transitions later.


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## brittneyscott (Mar 14, 2006)

Mostly because nighttime and the parent's bedroom is their private time. Not just for sex but intimacy and personal relationship in general. If you spend the day with your child and co-sleep at night when are you suppose to work on your relationship? How are you suppose to have a normal, healthy marriage? How/where/and when are you going to have sex anyways? Plus the kids won't want to sleep in their own beds/rooms later. And all the other reasons listed in the pp. Babies being in the room with the parents for the 1st couple of months is one thing but co-sleeping in the long run is a totally different thing.


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## *Karen* (Jul 28, 2006)

I agree with the poor/rich argument. I'd never thought of it that way before.

Also, I think formula feeding vs. breastfeeding is a big issue. If you FF, you gotta get up anyway so you may as well just stick your kid somewhere else where you can't hear it cry. I think it must have started with when moms were told to give the baby a bottle instead of a breast and to "teach" them independence early.


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## NaomiMcC (Mar 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WinterStar* 
Baby sleeps with mum, baby wakes more often.
Waking baby => tired mum => miserable mum.

Baby sleeps in own room, baby sleeps 12 hours.
Baby sleeps 12 hours => happy mum.

And happy mum = happy baby! YAY, everyone's a winner!

That's the UK line ;o)

That's my line too!

I'm just not a co-sleeper. Everybody in their own beds, in their own rooms. We have one due in November and the bassinet will be at the end of our bed until the house addition is done. Then our son will move to his new room (he's 13) and the babe will move to the room next to ours. We'll have a baby monitor (video if wer're lucky!) and that will be that. The reason? That's just the way we do it.


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## 1babysmom (May 22, 2006)

I haven't read the replies yet, so this might be redundant. But the 2 reasons I seem to get most are 1) creating a habit that is hard to break (which apparently is a "risk" that outweighs the benefits???), and 2) that it's "not right" for children to be in the parents bed...for "relationship" reasons. I think that's one of the reasons that is wrong because it's taking away the innocence of tiny children. Goodness, how many cosleepers actually have sex with their kids in bed?!?! :crazy: And it's not going to be damaging to a child to sleep with their parents..it's not like they'll get any "ideas" or anythying.


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## Zadee (Oct 20, 2006)

The reason that *I* don't co-sleep is that DD kicks me in the face. She is a restless sleeper. And very flexible. I miss it. I'm hoping that when she is an older toddler she'll WANT to come back into bed with me and will be less flaily in her sleep.


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## Mom2CommonCents (Mar 23, 2007)

I think that it's so, bad, in society is b/c it didn't start because nature intended us to sleep together, we slept with our familes b/c of safety, protect the herd. Now that safety is achieveable w/o sleeping in the same bed, it's just seen as wierd to do it still. It's like why go hunt a deer when you can go to the store and buy some, people still do it, but it's not common.

Also as science has evolved different theories arise too. Everyone knows that science is a practice, and not a easily proven fact, new information is always coming in, so basically no one is ever right. It's just what works for you.


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## LoveChild421 (Sep 10, 2004)

I think here in the rural south co-sleeping is very accepted and almost a tradition. A lot of people will "admit" to co-sleeping. I slept with my parents, my mom thinks its awful that parents put little babies in cribs in another room. I think the difference in attitude here is based on the mentality of "what do those experts know? I'm listening to my granny and my mama" so they just tell the pediatrician that the baby is in a crib at night while that isn't the case. There is more of a tendency amongst the younger generations to listen to "the authorities" like Dr.s and crap like babycenter though.


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## Cloth4Colin (Dec 12, 2004)

I agree with what many have already posted. In a great deal, I believe the anti-cosleeping mantra is fueled by "nursery" marketing and consumerism. For us personally, we have met resistance in that people believe it will "spoil" DC and they will never want to leave our bed.

In our experience with our first DS, he has already made the transisition to his own bed - and it was of his own desire, not ours...personally, I miss the little guy in our bed! We totally left the decision to move to his own bed up to him. He decided just short of 3 years old that he was ready. He transitioned very easily. We do let him know that our bed is always open for him and he is welcome any time. So, I think that he has well proved that little theory wrong!

Co-sleeping was for our first and continues to be for our second a wonderful experience that we value greatly. We wouldn't have done it any other way!


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LoveChild421* 
I think here in the rural south co-sleeping is very accepted and almost a tradition. A lot of people will "admit" to co-sleeping. I slept with my parents, my mom thinks its awful that parents put little babies in cribs in another room. I think the difference in attitude here is based on the mentality of "what do those experts know? I'm listening to my granny and my mama" so they just tell the pediatrician that the baby is in a crib at night while that isn't the case. There is more of a tendency amongst the younger generations to listen to "the authorities" like Dr.s and crap like babycenter though.

Yep. C-sleeping is normal in my rural, southern extended family. No one questions that I sleep with DD. Even people who FF co-sleep. You go from cosleeping with your parents to cosleeping with your siblings.


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## jsnv (Jan 2, 2007)

I think it's because we live in a "ME" society. People are selfish. We FF so we can get our bodies back. We follow doctors orders without question so we don't have to spend time thinking about mundane childcare stuff. We let out kids CIO so we can get our kids on our schedule. And we put them in their own room so we can get a good night .


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## alaskaberry (Dec 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
you should have seen the looks of HORROR on people's faces when we told them that we didn't have a nursery, it's seen as a normal and essential part of preparing for baby's arrival...

I know! Same thing here. I just assumed the baby would sleep with *us*, although he slept in a shoebox the first night. We were living in a 2-room, one-level cabin at the time (still are, only this time it's 2-level, one room for each floor!). When dp's parents inquired to WHY the baby did not have his own crib, dp explained "what if the monitor went off during the night? he would freeze to death." (the electricity went out a lot that winter in our area, *and* it's alaska, so at night it's -40 or -50 depending)


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## edamommy (Apr 6, 2004)

my thoughts on this never come out as clearly as I think them in my head but...

It seems like things like co-sleeping, ap parenting, breastfeeding etc. are really looked down on and totally dogged (at least in the USA) because if everyone followed that way of life than big business and big gov't couldn't control society as well. by putting your child in a crib. By feeding your child w/ a bottle, by permitting CIO, spanking, etc. we hold our children at arms reach... and that "gap" between parent and child allows big gov't, big business, etc. to get right in THERE.

does that make a bit of sense?


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## painefaria (Jul 4, 2007)

Since when are babies supposed to be independent? All I know that my DS sleeps better and much LONGER if he is in bed with us.


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jsnv* 
I think it's because we live in a "ME" society. People are selfish. We FF so we can get our bodies back. We go back to work and put our kids in daycare so we can afford the payments on the Lexus SUVs. We follow doctors orders without question so we don't have to spend time thinking about mundane childcare stuff. We let out kids CIO so we can get our kids on our schedule. And we put them in their own room so we can get a good night sleep.

** I would never question anyone's reason to work out of the home except when I hear people explain to me that they HAD to go back to work to support their lifestyle. I didn't ask. I don't care. But REALLY who are you trying to convince.









*sigh*

Spare us the working mommy bashing. There are lots of WOHMs on this board. I'm one of them. I BF, cosleep, and have zero interest in putting my child on a schedule. We don't have a nursery. All the working moms I know cosleep, now that I think about it.

And please tell me where I can get my Lexus. I'm driving a 15 year old car with 250K miles on it.


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## warpinmama (Jul 1, 2007)

all the responses are so interesting and wonderful/insightful

WE cosleep
BUT, all babes are different and I have actually known 2 families who are like-minded but gave up cosleeping because babe slept better by itself eventually.... I personally can't relate as my dd spends most of the night in the crook of my arm and on my breast







(she's 18 mo) i can tell she really enjoys our bed.

Anyhoo.... just wanted to plug the idea of class/$$, I think a lot of people(possibly subconsciously) think of cosleeping and think of a one bedroom apt full of people sleeping in the same room cause they can't afford more. they see the baby's room as something richer people do. unconscious status... it's weird, but sometimes I find people don't really examine their own beliefs/decisions that deeply~ they just do things....

Also I think underlying childhood issues/guilt and sometimes unsolid relationships are the cause as well. often I find that when I don't take care of myself and/or my relationship with my husband... in those moments I come very close to understanding the mainstream views. It can be hard to maintain a healthy/harmonious family!!!







but very worth all the efforts!


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

This debate has been around for generations. I've read parenting books from before WW II that talk about how babies should be left alone as much as possible.


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## jsnv (Jan 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Herausgeber* 
*sigh*

Spare us the working mommy bashing. There are lots of WOHMs on this board. I'm one of them. I BF, cosleep, and have zero interest in putting my child on a schedule. We don't have a nursery. All the working moms I know cosleep, now that I think about it.

And please tell me where I can get my Lexus. I'm driving a 15 year old car with 250K miles on it.

My intention was not to bash working moms. If you want to work then work. I don't care, just don't act like you HAVE to unless you really do. I have had a couple of friends act like they had no choice instead of just saying " I like my job" or "I like spending the day with adults" etc, which are perfectly fine, just be honest.

I was referring to some moms that are ALL of what I said. I think they are selfish.


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## HeidiAnn67 (Jun 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Herausgeber* 
*sigh*

Spare us the working mommy bashing. There are lots of WOHMs on this board. I'm one of them. I BF, cosleep, and have zero interest in putting my child on a schedule. We don't have a nursery. *All the working moms I know cosleep, now that I think about it.*
And please tell me where I can get my Lexus. I'm driving a 15 year old car with 250K miles on it.

I co-slept with my then 3 year old BECAUSE I worked. He was going through a rough time being alone in the dark (he was terrified). I NEEDED to sleep so I could get up for work at 5am, so I did what I said I never would. I brought him into bed with me. We both got wonderful sleep and I could go to work "bright eyed and bushy tailed". Now that it's summer and I'm not working (I work in a school) he's back in his own bed. He's on his own schedule and falls asleep whenever and we move him into his bed. When school starts back up again, if he won't go to his own bed alone, I'll gladly take him back with me. I actually miss him now.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *painefaria* 
Since when are babies supposed to be independent? All I know that my DS sleeps better and much LONGER if he is in bed with us.

























My kids are older and have outgrown cosleeping, but when they were little this was very true for us.


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## NaomiMcC (Mar 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brittneyscott* 
Mostly because nighttime and the parent's bedroom is their private time. Not just for sex but intimacy and personal relationship in general. If you spend the day with your child and co-sleep at night when are you suppose to work on your relationship? How are you suppose to have a normal, healthy marriage? How/where/and when are you going to have sex anyways? Plus the kids won't want to sleep in their own beds/rooms later. And all the other reasons listed in the pp. Babies being in the room with the parents for the 1st couple of months is one thing but co-sleeping in the long run is a totally different thing.









:


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## cjanelles (Oct 22, 2005)

I wonder if it has anything to do with the phenonmenon of women joining the work force outside of the home, way back when.

My husband made a point the other day about how the whole pro-forumla/anti-breast movement kicked into high gear right around the time that women were beginning to work outside the home in such high numbers...so, it was convenient for the pro-formula message to support the "needs" of mothers who would be leaving their babies.

I wonder if the co-sleeping thing isn't similar...the logic being that it's easier to leave a crib-sleeper, easier to leave an unattached infant at home so that both parents can work.

Of course, I find that I get more sleep with my newborn in the bed with me...so if I were having to return to a job, it would make much more sense to me to keep her in the bed with us, rather than struggle with teaching her how to sleep by herself and being awake at all hours of the night and then trying to get up for work the next morning...


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## BamaDude (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Juvysen* 
The rolling over onto the baby is kind of a weird idea, isn't it?

For some people it might be. For others like me, it's a very real and frightening possibility.
I have always been a restless sleeper. I toss and turn and flop around on the bed all night long. I am always amazed at people who hardly disturb the sheets at all when they sleep, as my sheets tend to wind up either wrapped around me like a boa constrictor or in an untidy bundle on the floor beside the bed by morning.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Juvysen* 
How many of us accidentally roll right off the bed?

I do occasionally, though not nearly as often as I did when I was younger.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Juvysen* 
If we were sooooo unaware of what's around us when we sleep, wouldn't we fall out of bed every night?







:

In the past I have slept through a powder plant explosion, a creosote plant explosion, and an earthquake. As a child I would go to sleep at my grandmother's house and wake up in my own bed at home (my parents both worked nights and didn't get off work until after my bedtime) with no recollection whatsover of how I got from one place to the other. Even scarier is the fact that I would talk to my parents and make perfect sense without ever waking up while they were taking me home.


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## batsora (Dec 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cjanelles* 
I wonder if the co-sleeping thing isn't similar...the logic being that it's easier to leave a crib-sleeper, easier to leave an unattached infant at home so that both parents can work.

...

THis wouldn't surprise me. Both my children co-sleep dd 9mos. and ds 2.5y. DS sleeps in his bed in our room but comes into bed around 5am when dh gets up. DS still breastfeeds and many times I find myself frustrated that they are not easier to leave so I could work or do something else. I love co-sleeping and breastfeeding even from my counselor I have heard "haven't you set things up so that it is more difficult to leave dd or ds with others." Yes i have chosen to be an attached parent. And yes it can be tough as all h*ll, but my ds is quite independent save naptime. I know its all for the best and I couldnt even imagine not knowing that my children are safe next to me. DS is only a few feet away when he is in his bed and I get nervous about him being safe.


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## MadWorldSonnet (Jun 15, 2007)

I think it's a little of what all of you said, plus the sexualization of children in our society. Mainly the issues I've heard are mothers cosleeping with their sons, and fathers cosleeping with their daughters.

I'm a single mother of one boy, about to enter 3rd grade. He has his own bed (one that I busted my hump putting together...gotta love IKEA, lol), and he sleeps there most nights. But on a night where we've just watched a scary movie or told some scary stories, or he's emotionally upset about something, he'll often hop into bed with me for the night.

I've answered so many inappropriate questions from coworkers and peers (and flat out refused to acknowledge others). Yes, I wear pants. Yes, we share a blanket. No, I'm not afraid he'll get "weird" feelings for me.







:

I think there's also the denying of children as a spiritual beings. I know that when I'm scared, lonely or upset I don't want to be left alone. I want to be in the arms of someone I love and trust, who feels the same way towards me. Why would we assume that babies and children are any different? That's just not logical. However, that is the default in America.

This can be seen when a mother yells at her 2 year old daughter for throwing a tantrum at the mall. The mother refuses to consider that she has caused this tantrum by delaying the child's meal time by an hour or more, bringing her into an unfamiliar surrounding filled with noise and people she doesn't know pinching her cheeks and rubbing her head. She's been denied her naptime so that mom could get Christmas shopping done. An adult in a relatively similar situation would be quite cranky too, but the child's needs are not considered.

Sorry to go off on a tangent here!

Kae


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## pixilixi (Jun 20, 2006)

In the group of moms that I hang out with, cosleeping is seen as a bit of a last resort when your child is unsettled, but.... better get them out of the parent's bed again as quick as you can so they don't become used to it.

There is a fear of dependence - "they'll never want to leave". If you co-sleep, you'll have clingy dependent children forever.

Also, for a baby to "learn how to put themselves to sleep" seems like the holy grail of parenthood here these days. If you don't "teach your child" to do this, you are depriving them of a life lesson and not doing them any favours apparently. Even the gentlest of mothers here seem to resort to CIO at some stage after 6 months because they can see no other way - or because their dh is opposed to cosleeping.







:

I agree with all the pp's too.


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MadWorldSonnet* 
I think it's a little of what all of you said, plus the sexualization of children in our society. Mainly the issues I've heard are mothers cosleeping with their sons, and fathers cosleeping with their daughters.

I'm a single mother of one boy, about to enter 3rd grade. He has his own bed (one that I busted my hump putting together...gotta love IKEA, lol), and he sleeps there most nights. But on a night where we've just watched a scary movie or told some scary stories, or he's emotionally upset about something, he'll often hop into bed with me for the night.

I've answered so many inappropriate questions from coworkers and peers (and flat out refused to acknowledge others). Yes, I wear pants. Yes, we share a blanket. No, I'm not afraid he'll get "weird" feelings for me.







:

I think there's also the denying of children as a spiritual beings. I know that when I'm scared, lonely or upset I don't want to be left alone. I want to be in the arms of someone I love and trust, who feels the same way towards me. Why would we assume that babies and children are any different? That's just not logical. However, that is the default in America.

This can be seen when a mother yells at her 2 year old daughter for throwing a tantrum at the mall. The mother refuses to consider that she has caused this tantrum by delaying the child's meal time by an hour or more, bringing her into an unfamiliar surrounding filled with noise and people she doesn't know pinching her cheeks and rubbing her head. She's been denied her naptime so that mom could get Christmas shopping done. An adult in a relatively similar situation would be quite cranky too, but the child's needs are not considered.

Sorry to go off on a tangent here!

Kae

Well said Kae! ITA. I am a single mom to a boy as well, he is only 2.5 and of course still co-sleeping. He has a "room" with a single bed, but Granny is the only one who has ever slept on it when she visits.


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## tessamami (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BethanyB* 
-pak-
also i think it's still b/c of the sids risks and the mis-information surrounding sids that makes co-sleeping taboo.

Yeah, there is a lot of fear around the issue of bedsharing. And also a lot of ignorance. There are actually campaigns by crib manufacturers and city agencies to imply that cosleeping is dangerous, but the statistics don't bear this out. Check out the Mothering sleep issue, published a few years ago.

I think everything else I would've shared, has been adequately expressed here, in the first 3 posts


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## luminesce (Aug 6, 2006)

Everyone has nailed the issues on the head. But for the life of me, I still can't truly understand it. My DH and I were just having this conversation the other day... how is it that people can stray so far from what is natural?

My family and friends have always been mainstream, but when I had my baby I couldn't have imagined not putting him to breast immediately and I certainly couldn't have imagined putting him to sleep all by himself in a room down the hall! My instincts said, 'Feed him with your body' and 'Snuggle him close to sleep.' How can culture and society tamper so profoundly with what is at our core? It is truly beyond me. I couldn't have ignored these instincts no matter what I had seen others do, how I was raised or what anyone told me!


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## Yodergoat (Jun 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MadWorldSonnet* 

I think there's also the denying of children as a spiritual beings. I know that when I'm scared, lonely or upset I don't want to be left alone. I want to be in the arms of someone I love and trust, who feels the same way towards me. Why would we assume that babies and children are any different? That's just not logical. However, that is the default in America.


Indeed! Here is a good example of that...

I was watching a program the other day, which I shan't name, in which a couple was seeking help from a "professional" to solve their marital issues. I knew as soon as they revealed that the one-year-old baby was sleeping with the mother at night and that the father was in the guest room what the first suggestion would be... and of course, it was *"Get that baby in his own bed!"* And do you know _why_? It was cruel of the wife to displace her husband temporarily to spend more time with the baby, because *"Sleep is a person's most vulnerable time, and you should spend the night with your husband so he can feel you there next to him and know he is loved."* Or something like that. No mention that the _baby_ might also feel vulnerable and alone is his own room! Soon it showed a crib being moved into a separate room, with a rather frightened and unhappy baby standing at the rail. It didn't show how they got through the night, but I can guess from seeing similar programs that CIO could have been involved.









I don't know why dad wasn't sleeping with mom and babe... it never said. Not an ideal situation, to be sure, and the couple did have very real problems.... but come on, who is more "vulnerable" than a baby!!!???!!! A grown man?







: The baby's feelings were never discussed at all, as if he didn't matter. And that seems to be the attitude in this country, that a baby isn't a "person" until he or she is old enough to voice an opinion... and crying doesn't count.







: I suppose it's much easier to dis-attach from your baby in all aspects if you don't consider that child to be a real _feeling_ person yet, and if you think that crying isn't a legitimate call for help in a time of fear and loneliness but is instead "manipulation."







:

I'm thankful that my parents shared their bed with me, from birth until about 4 years old. I did eventually leave.... I slept with my older sister for the next several years!







But I always did feel safe and secure with them, and there was nothing like waking up with the two people I loved most of all in the world, and knowing that they loved me.







: They are completely supportive of how we sleep with Gail, too. Although others have made comments. Sigh. Bedsharing does seem a bit more prevalent here in the south, although breastfeeding rates around here are abysmal and I've only seen one other person in my hometown using a sling (my best female friend, at my urging).

I could say _much_ more on this subject, more than anyone would ever care to read, but I'm sleepy. Not from co-sleeping.... from staying up until 1:42 in the morning reading MDC.


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## luminesce (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yodergoat;*
I suppose it's much easier to dis-attach from your baby in all aspects if you don't consider that child to be a real _feeling_ person yet, and if you think that crying isn't a legitimate call for help in a time of fear and loneliness but is instead "manipulation."







:

My SIL had a baby a year before I did and my mom told me that they let him CIO in his crib. It really upset my mom - she told me she wanted to go in and just pick him up and hold him. Now, if my mom felt that, how on earth couldn't my SIL? I just don't understand how you turn that instinct off.

My brother told me that their ped told them that a baby would 'play you like a violin if you let them'! I can't believe that! How does an itty bitty baby who uses crying as the only means to express himself and can't even move in a coordinated fashion think in a manipulative way?







: It is funny that humans will believe that an innocent new life can come out of the womb and naturally "play" you but not naturally just need lots of closeness, love and support. Of course, I said that a baby can't manipulate you, but it got me nowhere, except further up on his 'loopy' list.


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## queenbean (Apr 6, 2007)

About the manipulation thing... I do'nt understand how people can think a newborn can manipulate. I posted a blog a while back asking readers to envision being in a full body cast, getting thirsty, and nobody responds to the nurse call button or your screams for help... and then I said that's what a baby felt when he was left to CIO. I said that they felt abandoned, and were more likely to become clingy because they're afraid of being abandoned again. One of my friends left a comment saying that she didn't think a baby's mind was sophisticated enough to think that way, that they wouldn't remember it... and then in the SAME SENTENCE said that babies shouldn't be allowed to manipulate their parents, that we needed to teach them that we won't come running at every little whimper. Um... excuse me? They're not sophisticated enough to understand ABANDONMENT, but they're able to manipulate? That's some seriously backwards thinking.


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## hibana (Jun 9, 2006)

I think a lot of the western disgust with co-sleeping, especially beyond babyhood, stems from the weird idea that there is always a sexual element to bed-sharing. Because, of course, you have to be having sex with somebody to sleep in the same bed, right? And if there is bed-sharing _without_ sex, that's seen as abnormal in some way.

People seem to think that parents who co-sleep with their children are weak or needy, which in turn makes the child needy and dependent, depriving everyone involved of a normal, healthy relationship and especially depriving the parents of a sex life. Because, of course, if you can't do it in your own bed at night whenever the fancy strikes you, you obviously can't have anything resembling a healthy sex life, right? The child has to be detached and independent for the parents to be able to have a normal couple relationship.

So, between those ridiculous notions and a lot of nearly baseless worry about safety, people think it's wrong and dangerous to let their kids sleep with them.


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## Lia & Eva's Mama (Jul 10, 2007)

in ancient times family's shared one bed with the entire family. mostly because they lived in a one room house with only one bed they had no other choice.
in modern day people have houses with 2,3,4 bedrooms or more. so each child has a room but everyone sleeps with mom and dad. this is where people think that a child gets confused.
some people think that it is a marriage bed not a family bed.
somepeople have a marriage bed and a childs bed.


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## herilane (Jul 1, 2007)

Some interesting replies here! I had never thought of the "bed = sex" or "nursery as status symbol" explanations.


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lia & Eva's Mama* 
in ancient times family's shared one bed with the entire family. mostly because they lived in a one room house with only one bed they had no other choice.
in modern day people have houses with 2,3,4 bedrooms or more. so each child has a room but everyone sleeps with mom and dad. this is where people think that a child gets confused.
some people think that it is a marriage bed not a family bed.
somepeople have a marriage bed and a childs bed.









:


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## jsnv (Jan 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *herilane* 
Some interesting replies here! I had never thought of the "bed = sex"

i think my dh would like it if thought bed=sex a little more often


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## KathinJapan (Mar 25, 2003)

This has been very interesting. I live in Japan, where pretty much everybody cosleeps.
My neighbor was over last week, we moved in the fall, first time for them to come over. Anyway, when we went upstairs she saw the bed in the girls room and was really surprised that they were sleeping there, I had to laugh and say it was for guests or DH or mainly for jumping on.







we all sleep together in the bigger bedroom.
She has a 4 year old daughter and a 7 year old son. She said they all sleep in the same room, on futons. That is what is considered normal here. It is called *sleeping like the river kanji/character* because the kanji for river looks like 3 straight lines, the middle one a bit shorter, which represents the child sleeping between mom and dad.

I didn`t realize it was such a big deal until I started reading MDC.
Kathryn


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## HappyFox05 (Apr 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 
And of course, as we all know, couples have sex every night.


We do! That's why we were so suprised that we conceived - we figured low sperm count, keeping our eye on the calendar, and spermicide would keep us from getting pregnant (and it did, for two years).










On the co-sleeping side (since that IS the thread), I was never encouraged to sleep w/my parents as a kid. That resulted in my seeing DH sleeping with his kids as a weakness on his part. It was the old, "It was good enough for me" story. But now that we're pregnant, I'm planning on co-sleeping, because it seems psychologically better for both mom & babe, and because it seems to make nighttime feedings easier. Plus, it means less furniture to buy.

I guess my point is - people can change when they see the merits of co-sleeping.


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

I think a lot of people have been raised in an unattached way, and so they in turn visit that upon their children.. they just can't cross that line, open up--too painful. And they are perhaps stunted from not being babied attached and "need" their time at night... nak


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