# Would you let your son wear a dress/skirt?



## Zenful (Jun 27, 2009)

My son (2.5 yo) has recently taken an interest in dresses...whenever he sees a little girl wearing one he points to himself, which is his way of saying he wants to wear one, too. I haven't gone out and gotten him one yet, but I'm planning on it soon. At first, though, I felt kind of weird about it because of the obvious social stigma with boys wearing dresses or skirts. I talked about it with DP and he says he doesn't care what he wears, but DP is laid-back like that, anyway. I remember seeing a picture from a fashion show recently of a teenage boy wearing a skirt (not a kilt). It was manly enough, but of course the responses to it were mixed. I liked seeing that, though, because it shows people are starting to wake up to the fact that it's okay to be how you are, no matter what set of genitals you have









What are all of your opinions? Would you let your son wear a skirt or dress? Why or why not?


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

My son wears dresses. He's 4. He doesn't wear them out so much anymore I don;t know why it just changed.
He used to wear a very cute snoopy dress all the time. He looked very cute in it.
Now he mostly wears dresses just for dress up play with DD (his older sister)

I also let him paint his nails. He likes rainbow colors.

BTW..Whenever DS was in a dress in public I felt very judged. It was very uncomfortable for me but I let him anyway. I never corrected strangers who called him a girl but we often frequent places where everyone knows he's a boy, The library . the Y all the usual places where people know you.

Some people I think thought I was trying to be cutsie with him and others just thought we were crazy.
I always just said, "I'm not arguing with a 3 year old over clothes"
Good luck...


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

My son(s) will have to ask to wear clothing that is specifically "female" just because I don't want to deal with any BS about "making" them wear a dress.

But skirted male clothing from various cultures will be a part of their basic wardrobes.

ETA: If they asked, they'd be allowed to wear whatever they wanted, I just wouldn't be buying/making female clothing for them by default the way I'm definitely making yukata and such.


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## D'sMama (May 4, 2008)

My son is only 6 months old, so I don't really have a real-experience perspective, but I would say yes. I think people should be able to wear what they want. Everyone self-regulates their clothing choices and I think kids should be able to do that without having to factor in their parent's preferences and biases in addition. If he wears a dress and finds that kids tease him or people mistake him for a girl, then he'll learn to deal with it one way or another.


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## AlmostAPpropriate (Oct 23, 2004)

Ive thought about this recently after watching a couple of shows about gender identity. Honestly, no. I wouldnt let my son wear a dress as his regular clothes. DS, 5, has and does sometimes wear his siters dress up clothes here at home as part of a game. That's no big deal.

Part of my reasoning is that at a very young age he doesnt realize that he's opening himself up to negative responses from others. I feel like I can easily protect him from that by giving him guidelines about acceptable/unacceptable. When he's older and makes choices knowing the possible outcomes thats different.

Second, I firmly believe in inate differences between genders. I accept that some are born without a clear gender identity or born into the wrong body. However, the vast majority of people are born in one camp or the other. I feel like in our desire to be an accepting/open society to those who need it, we are blurring lines that dont need blurring for others. My boy is a boy. Why tell a boy who is firmly a boy that it's ok to be like a girl? Or my daughter that it's fine to be a boy?

Oh, adding, I too see a big difference between Male clothing that includes a skirt/dress like item and Female clothing.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

I would let DS wear skirts or dresses if he wanted.


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## honey-lilac (Jun 30, 2009)

That's a tough one. DS likes to look at DD's dresses and has asked to wear some, but he is bigger (2.5) and she is a small 1 y.o. so there's no way he would fit in them, and he accepts this explanation without conflict. However, on our next shopping trip (he's due for cold weather clothes) I might just look for a dress for him. DD will eventually grow into it anyway, so it wouldn't be "wasted". I think it would only be at-home clothes though. And only when DH wasn't looking; he is adamantly against it and I wouldn't want him shaming DS either on purpose or accidentally. (DS is very sensitive.) But I might let him try it out for a morning. Or maybe not; it might confuse him. I don't know. But I do let him wear nail polish (very light) and he gets a spritz of body spray now and again; he definitely likes being "girly".

I do also agree that there ARE differences between the genders and we shouldn't encourage kids to totally disregard those. Maybe see how it is and let them have fun with it but not totally throw the standards out the window. ITA with the previous poster who said stuff about letting them wear skirts/dresses but not GIRL clothes. It's hard to explain but I get the idea and I agree.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I have no problem with it. My son asked for a dress and I got him one; he hasn't opted to wear it out of the house yet but he can wear whatever he likes. He likes nail polish, so he wears that about as often as I do (4x a year







).

Even if certain things are innate to sex/gender (which, as research is showing, is way more complicated than a binary male/female model once you get into genitalia vs. chromosomes, etc. - http://www.scq.ubc.ca/genetics-of-se...nder-identity/), I do not honestly think that pink, bows, skirts, etc. have anything to do with it... have a look at different get ups historically across cultures. All that is imposed from our culture.

I do want my son to be aware of cultural norms and - he is. But I support his exploration however he wants to do it.


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## katiesk (Nov 6, 2007)

sure, why not? i doubt that it would really be the cause of any gender confusion, as it seems some are suggesting.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

I don't have a problem with it. I'm sure that in my house full of pink dresses from two older sisters, that one day DS will want to wear one.


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## punkrockmomma (Jan 29, 2008)

Let him wear a dress.


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## mamakaikai (Apr 17, 2009)

Absolutely. End of story.


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

I would, for sure. And I just asked my boyfriend, and he said he wouldn't have any problem with it either.


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## azmomtoone (Aug 30, 2008)

Absolutely! Or pink ... or whatever else.

I'd take him to SA or Goodwill or yardsales and let him pick them out himself....


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## FeingoldMomma (Apr 23, 2008)

_My oldest never decided he wanted a dress, though he spent time running around in my heels and playing with my makeup. He went the route of "most colorful plumage" and selected the brightest clothes he could find. He still likes bright colors, though not as high voltage bright as they used to be._

_If my youngest decides he wants a skirt or dress to wear, I'm all for it. Clothes are just pieces of fabric sewn into a shape that we then don. Clothing makes us neither male nor female. Danny will be a male whether he's in jeans and t-shirt or dress. The various kilts, wraps, sarongs, robes, and other skirts that are worn by men are just culturally acceptable expressions of one simple fact... Skirts are fun to wear! They swish against your legs, they're cooler than clingy pants or shorts, and they twirl like crazy (if you get the right kind). What's not to like?_


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

I let DS wear his sister's dresses and skirts, but he's mostly just worn them around the house. I feel weird about taking him out in public in a dress, but I'd also feel weird about telling him he absolutely couldn't wear a dress. What reason could I give that wouldn't basically be telling him (and my daughter) that it's shameful to be like a girl? It would be one thing if it were just as socially unacceptable for girls to wear "boy" clothes, but it's not. I have a hard time imagining that anyone here would tell their daughter she wasn't allowed to wear her brother's outgrown clothes.


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## Ackray (Feb 11, 2004)

My son ran around the house in princess costumes for a few weeks when he was 3 or 4. Other than that, no, I wouldn't let him wear skirts or dresses if he asked (he never asked). Is there something wrong with boys being boys and girls being girls?


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## Shiloh (Apr 15, 2005)

my dad is scottish.
there is nothing more manly than a kilt








also he used to live in south asia and north afrida so the boys regularly see their grandpa in his 'man dresses' and have their own.

a skirt or dress is a very fun freeing outfit.
I might suggest if its a public thing getting a kilt (they have some cool plain army green ones) or a more costumish african, arab outfit.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

No problem with DS wearing a dress. Why do women and girls get to own dresses and skirts? You can be a boy _and_ wear a dress with no confusion about yourself what so ever.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
My son ran around the house in princess costumes for a few weeks when he was 3 or 4. Other than that, no, I wouldn't let him wear skirts or dresses if he asked (he never asked). Is there something wrong with boys being boys and girls being girls?

If girls can wear pants and still be girls, then boys can wear dresses and still be boys.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
My son ran around the house in princess costumes for a few weeks when he was 3 or 4. Other than that, no, I wouldn't let him wear skirts or dresses if he asked (he never asked). Is there something wrong with boys being boys and girls being girls?

What about wearing a dress makes a boy not a boy?

Anyhow, yes, I would let my boys wear dresses. Interestingly enough, I also let my daughter wear pants.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

This is a conversation 4 year old ds had with me the other morning...

ds: [totally out of the blue] Why don't boys wear dresses?

me: [thinking, man, I've never limited what the kids wears...and trying to think of an answer] Well, boys and girls wear different things in different cultures. In our culture, boys don't usually wear dresses, but that isn't true everywhere.

ds: But why?

me: Right. Well, I am not really sure...I think...

ds: [Hopping in with a different question] What boys wear dresses?

me: [I don't think well on my feet.] Well, they don't call them dresses or skirts, but in Scotland, traditional clothing for men includes a kilt.

ds: For Christmas, I want to wear a kilt.

me: Okay.

ds: And today, I want to wear a pink dress.

me: Honey, I am not sure we have any pink dresses, but we can look and see what we have in your size.

dw [calling from the other room]: No, he's wearing overalls today. We're going over to ___'s house to work in the garden.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

In the future yes, right now no.

If when DS is old enough to understand the difference between gender appropriate cloths and cross dressing he makes a conscious decision to cross dress then I will support him. However, I do not want to waste half my clothing budget buying 3yo DS sparkly pink high heeled shoes that neither fit him nor go with any of his other cloths.

Are you sure that pointing means he wants one?


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Yes, I would let my son wear a dress. Not that any of my boys give a damn what they wear yet, mind you.
I wouldn't buy one based on pointing, though. It's possible to admire something and not want it for your own, you know?


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

sure. he's never been that into dress/skirts, though he did like pink a lot when he was younger. in fact, on of the walls in his room is painted a bold, bright pink (the other walls are green, blue, and yellow)


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Nope. For us it's a religious issue, with distinct gender differences. *In this culture* skirts/dresses are still female attire, so our boys won't wear them.

If we were in a culture where distinctly male attire had a skirt element to it, I wouldn't mind my boys wearing that.


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## battymama (Jan 15, 2008)

yes, no question. I would discuss it appropriatly of course to help them understand that there may be a negative reaction. I have no issues with gender identities, whatever floats your boat- who ever my child is i will support them.


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## ailesimp (Jul 24, 2009)

I would let him wear dresses. No problem.
I would talk to him about him - probably 2,5 years is a little to young.
But I would recommend you to let him be and wear what he feels like.
Soon enough his gonna have to find his spot in the society and most of the time those spots are not voluntarily chosen.
Let it be!
Have a good day!


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## darcytrue (Jan 23, 2009)

I'd let him wear one for dress-up in the home if he asked but as far as going out and buying a dress specifically for my son, no. Btw, my son is 14 now and is all boy, but he did play with dolls, dollhouses and other girl toys when he was a toddler and I saw nothing wrong with that at the time. We even bought him a nice play kitchen back then and he played with it for several years. He's always loved to cook, still does.


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## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

Sure I would.

With a younger kid, nobody cares. (And if they do, they know where to stick it.)

With an older kid (like 9 and up), I still would allow it, but I'd probably have a gentle talk about how it's unusual, people might make comments, etc. There are ways to warn them about that without saying that it's wrong.


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

Yes, of course. Whatever they want to wear, as long as it's warm enough (/practical/keep 'em dry etc.). That's one battle I'm not getting myself into.


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## Ceili (Nov 21, 2001)

Yep, I would as long as it was weather appropriate.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

I ended up buying my son his own dress recently when he had a meltdown over not being able to wear his sister's (they're just too big). He was so excited to have it . . . and I've since found him another that fits, as well.

My mom thinks it's ridiculous and even though she often buys the kids clothes, she will NEVER buy him something feminine, even if it's what he has chosen. That makes me really angry. There's nothing wrong with him wearing dresses -- especially in the summer, they're so much more comfortable! If people think he's a girl, that's fine. He doesn't care. If people think we're odd, that's fine too. We are.


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## Mama2Jesse (Jan 5, 2009)

Probably not.

Main reason being DH grew up in a houseful of women who found it funny to emasculate him. At two, he was not old enough to really control that. At six, when mom kept pushing it, he apparently pitched an unholy fit and has been all testosterone-y since.







:nana: I think if he could go club our dinner each night and roast it on a spit, he would.

And then, I've known some little boys be pretty darned upset to be mistaken for a girl (and girls for boys) so, until DS is old enough to understand his choices may make people react poorly, I feel I have to shield him.

Eh, if he were old enough to understand the whole "stupid people" thing, fine. But not as a toddler-three year old who may look back at pictures some day and ask "Mom, WTH?!"

Besides, I'd hate to have to get all nasty back at some sneering hag in the grocery.


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Yes. If Aidan wants to wear a dress, I'll let him.


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## NicaG (Jun 16, 2006)

It's never come up for us, but I probably would strongly discourage dresses outside the house. We were always the "weird family" growing up (reclusive parents, autistic brother), and as an adult I don't really like sticking out and dealing with comments. I am nonconformist in my personal and intellectual life, but I rather like conformity when it comes to things that don't matter much to me, like clothing. Yeah, yeah, girls wear pants....but let's face it, pants have become gender-appropriate for girls in our culture. Dresses have not become gender-appropriate for boys. Maybe in Scotland, etc. etc. but we don't live there. I wouldn't bat an eyelash if I saw a boy in a dress, I just don't really want that for my own son.


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## witchygrrl (Aug 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
If girls can wear pants and still be girls, then boys can wear dresses and still be boys.

Exactly!


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## Conifer (May 4, 2009)

I took DS to his cousin's birthday party (cousin is a 2 year old girl). They had tons of princess stuff there and DS happily put on a tiara, necklace and carried a wand. I thought he was cute and a bit hilarious! He wore them for about 4 hours. A bunch of people at the party got really nervous about it and started asking if I should have him take it off. I just said Nahhhh







let him have some fun.

Now DS is 9 and he is still very comfortable with his own gender....male! Would I buy a dress for him at 4?...probably not (honestly). I would buy him costumes or cultural outfits like a kilt that are dresses or skirts. I think at 2,3,4, it is more about play and dress up than gender issues. If at 10 my DS wanted to wear a skirt, I would take it more seriously and give in if that is what he really wanted.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

It wouldn't bother me. I understand that for the most part there are biological differences between boys and girls but I don't really see how clothing figures into the equation. Arbitrarily assigning clothing, toys, colors etc. genders bothers me.

I pretty much let my kids wear whatever they want. Over the course of this week Ava wore a bathing suit over her clothes, a ladybug costume, and socks on her hands to daycare. I pick my battles- clothing typically isn't one of them.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I would in the house for play but outside the home no I wouldnt. It is way out of my comfort zone and dh....well we wont even go there.


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## LaLaLaLa (Oct 29, 2007)

After a great deal of thought, probably not.

DS is 3 1/2 now, and doesn't have any inclination to be girly (his older sister keeps trying, in vain, to get him to play princesses with him and dress him up, but he's having none of it). So, the fact that he isn't begging for a dress probably makes my answer of "no" easier.

We have recently moved into a fairly small community where we plan on living until my kids are done with high school, at least. Each of my kids will be in a class of about a hundred kids from kindergarten right through high school. No escaping from their peers. I would hate to allow DS to do something when he's five that would come back to haunt him when he's twelve: "Remember when you used to come to school in a DRESS?!" from his classmates. Or other mean comments.

If DS really, truly, feels that dressing in female clothing is an essential part of his identity, we will work with that--but only once he is old enough to understand the repercussions of dressing SO differently around people who are unlikely to forget. I'm supportive of whoever DS is in regards to gender or sexuality, but I am hesitant for him to paint such a large target on himself simply on a childhood whim.

That said, I do currently paint his fingernails whenever he wants me to, and put clips in his hair when he admires his sister's. We are pretty insular, and our playgroup friends and our family members don't think it's weird. When it gets to the point where I'm sending him to school away from me, I will change that policy.

Up to a certain age when they can handle it, I think it wears on kids to have to constantly answer confrontational questions about their appearance. DD has a huge birthmark on her face that is currently being surgically treated, and it sucks for all of us to have strangers constantly commenting on it. I don't want to encourage DS to purposely draw similar horrified attention to his looks. It may make me a terrible parent that I'd prefer my kids blend, but that's where I stand now while they are little.


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

DS has been interested in wearing dresses and skirts since he was a toddler. He's three now and still does. We roll with it. He has a drawer of skirts and dresses, mostly hand-me-downs from his sister, a few that he picked out especially for himself when we were clothing shopping. And four drawers of pants, shorts, and overalls. He goes through phases where sometimes he's happy to let me pick out his clothes and sometimes he insists on picking out his own, at which point he almost always picks out a dress or skirt. Honestly, we're not crystal clear on his gender identity, but I'm confident that him choosing to wear a skirt might be, at most, an outward indication of his identity, not something that would change his identity simply by virtue of him wearing it.

We've talked about how people dress in different cultures, we've talked about the difference between playing pretend and reality (like the three months where he wanted to be Snow White every single day, complete with ball gown). When he says that he wants to wear a dress so he can be pretty, just like we with did when dd went through her princess phase, we emphasize that the person is beautiful and the clothes are nice, too, but clothes don't make you beautiful. We also talk about the nice features we see in his "boy" clothes -- how I like the blue of a shirt and how it sets off his eyes, how interesting the dragon embroidery on his pants is, etc. He is who he is and I love him as he is. I have no idea who he's going to be when he grows up and I'm very curious. But primarily, I want him to like himself and accept himself, whether he ends up being a conservative button-down Republican or a drag queen, or just a guy who's maybe a little more perceptive than most when it comes to fashion, has an open mind, and who likes the finer things in life.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

For those of you who say, "no" how do you explain it to the little kid?
I am asking b/c i just can not fathom myself saying, "No b/c those are only for girls"
I can't think of a scenario where I would have to say that to a girl. Even if, say. she wanted to wear a sports cup I could say, "well you don't have the right equipment to need that..that REALLY is for boys b/c it's for the actual penis...the actual part that makes them a boy.
But how do you say..no just because?
In any scenario I can picture my son saying "who cares?" or "I want to anyway"
No matter if I said people might think your a girl no matter if I said they are only for girls..he would counter with, "So..I still want to"
How do you say no to that?
then what if I said, "People will laugh"
What message am I giving to my dd? That girls are inferior? That pretending to be a girl is silly but it's ok to pretend to be boy once a while?
I can not come up with any way to say no that does not impact both my kids.


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## wbg (Mar 28, 2008)

Have done and will again. Cant see any issue with it.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Yes, I would.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlmostAPpropriate* 
Second, I firmly believe in inate differences between genders. I accept that some are born without a clear gender identity or born into the wrong body. However, the vast majority of people are born in one camp or the other. I feel like in our desire to be an accepting/open society to those who need it, we are blurring lines that dont need blurring for others. My boy is a boy. Why tell a boy who is firmly a boy that it's ok to be like a girl? Or my daughter that it's fine to be a boy?

Oh, adding, I too see a big difference between Male clothing that includes a skirt/dress like item and Female clothing.

It's not clear to me what believing in "innate differences between genders" (which I would revise to say "between sexes") has to do with skirts, dresses, colors, etc. You might believe that boys are innately different from girls, but what about a skirt makes it "innately" a girly thing? What about the color pink makes it "innately" girly. These things are arbitrary conventions--and there arbitrariness is evident by the fact that they vary widely across cultures and even within the same culture. In early America, boys wore pink (the "childish" form of red, which was thought to be the more masculine color) and both genders wore gowns when they were very young. If you want to enforce "traditional" gender norms, you should probably be putting your son in a pink gown!

I would let my boy wear "girl" clothes and my girl wear "boy" clothes, because I simply don't buy into the idea that clothes, or colors, or toys can have "gender". Moreover, I think that buying into that idea, particular in its extremes, can be extremely harmful to both boys and girls who don't naturally adhere to gender norms (and the existence of so many boys who like to wear tiaras and so many girls who like to ride dirt bikes suggests that there are plenty who don't). If a boy who desperately wants to wear a dress is told by his parents that his feelings are "wrong" and "abnormal," odds are that it will not eliminate the desire but teaching him that his parents will only accept him if he acts in a certain, prescribed way. That kind of thinking is also one of the reason why, I think, we have so many clueless, hands-off fathers--if parents don't allow their interested sons to have baby dolls, push strollers, play with toy kitchens, etc., they are implicitly sending the messages that boys aren't "supposed" to be nurturing and involved parents/caretakers of their homes/etc.


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## Harmony08 (Feb 4, 2009)

I am imagining the future....I totally would let him wear a dress in the house or to Grammy's house. I'd paint his nails. I'd even get him some pretty dress ups if he wanted.
Out in public.....I don't think so. Like a PP said I feel like that invites a certain amount of attention with the potential for some real negativity. I guess I would feel like I failed him if I set him up for that kind of experience. Of course I would try to protect him. Of course I wouldn't care what other people thought. Of course I could try to explain to him why people acted like that etc. But I feel like the damage would still be done. I just feel like it is unnecessary to risk his sensitive little heart like that. When I was little my mom sent me to school with curlers in my hair. She didn't think it would be a problem. Well...it was. I wish she had thought ahead and protected me from that experience.


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## NicaG (Jun 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipumpkins* 
For those of you who say, "no" how do you explain it to the little kid?
I am asking b/c i just can not fathom myself saying, "No b/c those are only for girls"
I can't think of a scenario where I would have to say that to a girl. Even if, say. she wanted to wear a sports cup I could say, "well you don't have the right equipment to need that..that REALLY is for boys b/c it's for the actual penis...the actual part that makes them a boy.
But how do you say..no just because?
In any scenario I can picture my son saying "who cares?" or "I want to anyway"
No matter if I said people might think your a girl no matter if I said they are only for girls..he would counter with, "So..I still want to"
How do you say no to that?
then what if I said, "People will laugh"
What message am I giving to my dd? That girls are inferior? That pretending to be a girl is silly but it's ok to pretend to be boy once a while?
I can not come up with any way to say no that does not impact both my kids.

I think if I were explaining it, I would say that we don't do it because it draws too much attention to us, and other people think it's weird, and other people tease and laugh, and other people think I'm a bad mother.

This may be shallow, but it's just not a battle that I want to fight with society. If the issue were some kind of special dress for religious reasons, I might make impassioned statements about standing up for our beliefs in spite of secular society or something similar. But I personally think that conformity in clothing is appropriate and helps my kids fit in with their peers. My parents were big on nonconformity when I was a kid....and mostly it just made me feel bad to not fit in, and I wished they had pointed out the benefits of conformity once in a while.

And yes, there's no equivalent for girls. There's no real way for a girl to dress up as a boy in our culture. Maybe getting a boy's haircut? I have a son and a daughter and I don't think there's anything wrong with saying there's a different rule here for boys and girls.

These are just my own opinions--not trying to argue with anyone else's beliefs or handling of the issue. It's interesting to read others' responses.


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## Harmony08 (Feb 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipumpkins* 
For those of you who say, "no" how do you explain it to the little kid?
I am asking b/c i just can not fathom myself saying, "No b/c those are only for girls"
I can't think of a scenario where I would have to say that to a girl. Even if, say. she wanted to wear a sports cup I could say, "well you don't have the right equipment to need that..that REALLY is for boys b/c it's for the actual penis...the actual part that makes them a boy.
But how do you say..no just because?
In any scenario I can picture my son saying "who cares?" or "I want to anyway"
No matter if I said people might think your a girl no matter if I said they are only for girls..he would counter with, "So..I still want to"
How do you say no to that?
then what if I said, "People will laugh"
What message am I giving to my dd? That girls are inferior? That pretending to be a girl is silly but it's ok to pretend to be boy once a while?
I can not come up with any way to say no that does not impact both my kids.

With a 2 year old I believe that I would try to avoid getting directly into the issue like this. I think I would just give him a choice of other clothes, let him pick out a crazy hat, tell him we need pants for where we are going, tell him we will save the dress for when we go to Grammy's tomorrow. Distraction, substitution, redirection.

Good question....


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## NicaG (Jun 16, 2006)

Re: dresses are appropriate for boys in other cultures, so there's nothing wrong with it here....I really think that's irrelevant. Would you really use this argument if your adolescent daughter wanted to go out topless because that's appropriate in a tribe in Africa? Or wanted to sunbathe topless because that's appropriate in Europe? Or if your daughter wanted to wear a burka to school, even though that's not your own family heritage? Sometimes I really think it's ok to say this is the culture we live in, for better or worse, and it's ok to conform to its expectations regarding gender-appropriate clothing for kids too young to understand the full implications of subverting those expectations.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

: I agree with you NicaG


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NicaG* 
I think if I were explaining it, I would say that we don't do it because it draws too much attention to us, and other people think it's weird, and other people tease and laugh, and other people think I'm a bad mother.

The thing is, letting your kid know people might react _that_ strongly to a boy in a dress - so strongly that you're afraid to even let him try it - is giving him the message that there's really something wrong with dressing like a girl. Of course my kid is going to realize someday that a lot of people do think there's something wrong with it, but I guess I'd rather not have him find out what a strong cultural bias there is against it until he's old enough to understand how dumb that bias is.

Right now, he's only 3.5, so no kids his age are going to tease him for wearing a dress. And while I can imagine some adults thinking it's screwed up for me to put a dress on him, it seems pretty unlikely that any of them would be rude enough to comment on it. So forbidding him to wear a dress wouldn't be to protect him from mean comments, but just to protect me from having to worry about what people might think. (I do try to protect myself from that by encouraging him to wear other things in public, but I haven't gone so far as to forbid him to wear a dress, and I don't think I would unless I had reason to believe he'd really get a negative reaction.)


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NicaG* 
Re: dresses are appropriate for boys in other cultures, so there's nothing wrong with it here....I really think that's irrelevant. Would you really use this argument if your adolescent daughter wanted to go out topless because that's appropriate in a tribe in Africa? Or wanted to sunbathe topless because that's appropriate in Europe? Or if your daughter wanted to wear a burka to school, even though that's not your own family heritage? Sometimes I really think it's ok to say this is the culture we live in, for better or worse, and it's ok to conform to its expectations regarding gender-appropriate clothing for kids too young to understand the full implications of subverting those expectations.

My reason for not wanting to allow my teenage daughter to walk around topless have to do with the unwanted attention she might get from men in our highly sexualized culture, not because I think there's anything "wrong" with women being topless (particularly since it's perfectly acceptable, culturally, for men to be topless). So, if you don't want your son to wear a dress, because you are worried about unwanted attention, teasing, etc., I can understand that--it's not where I choose to draw my line, and I think the general observance of rigid gender norms is harmful, but I can understand, even if I don't agree. But if you don't want your son to wear a dress or a pink shirt because you think those things are "inherently for girls," then I don't get it. Nothing is "inherently for girls" or "inherently for boys"--we choose, culturally, what those things are, and what we choose is constantly in flux.

But, personally, I simply don't agree that there is "gender-appropriate" clothing. I know some people do, but I don't. What about having a penis would make a skirt inappropriate? It might still be cool and comfortable for a boy to wear. Nothing about havin a vagina makes pants inappropriate for girls. Girls and boys are much physically similar than they are different, so I think it is quite reasonable that some boys would prefer skirts as more comfortable, just as some girls do--and just as some girls find pants more comfortable.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NicaG* 
I think if I were explaining it, I would say that we don't do it because it draws too much attention to us, and other people think it's weird, and other people tease and laugh, and other people think I'm a bad mother.

But hipumpkins was looking for a way to explain it that wouldn't negatively effect either of her children . . . all of those explanations would be very negative -- saying that drawing attention to yourself is a something to avoid, that people think it's weird or will pick on them, and that it's something a "bad mother" would do.

Those aren't adequate explanations, and I highly doubt anyone could come up with an explanation that wasn't negative -- because teaching your kids to express themselves only in "socially-acceptable" ways is a pretty damning thing to do.


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

What a timely question!

My ds (4, will be 5 in November) is currently wearing a flowery sundress, purple socks, and pink shoes. He's at the grocery store with my dh and dd. Dd dressed him today.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Sorry, is there a culture where the sort of dresses sold for girls in the U.S. are generally accepted male clothes?

And the "daughters topless because some African cultures are" argument is silly since I'm not about to let my son(s) run around totally naked or with a loincloth in the streets just because that happens in some cultures. However, robes and such do cover everything we legally need to cover in our culture.


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## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

No, never. I don't have a boy though







. But if I did, I wouldn't. I don't let DD go out in inside out, non-matching, or non-season-appropriate clothes either. I think presentation is important and I would like to present my family as typical of our culture's values and norms and appropriately dressed for the occasion. I don't like the idea of other people judging me and I also want my kids to feel like they 'belong' and are like everybody else. Clothes are shorthand for strangers about who you are. I'm all for fighting the patriarchy but I'm picking my battles. Strangers thinking my kids are weirdos? Nope. DH making dinner and getting up with the baby? Check.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NicaG* 
Re: dresses are appropriate for boys in other cultures, so there's nothing wrong with it here....I really think that's irrelevant. Would you really use this argument if your adolescent daughter wanted to go out topless because that's appropriate in a tribe in Africa? Or wanted to sunbathe topless because that's appropriate in Europe? Or if your daughter wanted to wear a burka to school, even though that's not your own family heritage? Sometimes I really think it's ok to say this is the culture we live in, for better or worse, and it's ok to conform to its expectations regarding gender-appropriate clothing for kids too young to understand the full implications of subverting those expectations.

I'll bite, since I said that.

And actually for some of those things, yes. In Ontario there was a Charter of Rights and Freedoms challenge about a law that required women to wear shirts and not men and now it's legal for women to go topless. I'm glad for the legal right to go topless (and actually this vaguely plays into breastfeeding as well; it eliminated one argument against nursing in public.) I have gone topless when camping, as a teen. If my adolescent daughter were choosing to go topless I would certainly discuss my very real concerns about other people's reactions but I think ultimately I would support her as long as it were in a safe environment (Pride parades come to mind...).

For the burka - I've worn that too, for a few days as a part of a culture exchange programme. People here do wear them and as long as it's not done mockingly I really have no issue with it. At all.

What I would have trouble with would be a swastika, for example. So if you are asking me if I have any standards at all well yes, I do. I don't have a problem with parents guiding their kids' clothing choices and I support you in your decision.









But for me, I do not want my kid doing things "because everyone else does" as a bottom line reason. I consider this a safety issue - if everyone's doing drugs, for example, I really want him to say no!

Being mocked is a painful experience and of course I don't want him to have too many painful experiences. But I also don't want him to live in fear of being mocked or to allow that fear to rule his own decisions about things. I've been on both sides of this issue.

Having been raised by parents who dressed me 'funny' I am all too aware of the cruelty of people. I think there is value in being aware of the consequences of choice in dress, and sensitive about it. At the same time I have been well served by some willingness to be different - I've traveled, I've said "yes!" to going to the pool on days I haven't shaved and gotten to swim, I've tagged along to formal events in informal clothing.

I know people who won't eat out alone because they don't want to be looked at (!!) and I really don't want my son to truncate his life and desires out of that kind of fear you know?

So - yes I am willing to be discomforted and to even expose my son to discomfort if he wants to wear something different than a cultural norm. I also want to support him in understanding the norms and helping him conform to them if he wants to, too. I believe we learn mostly by doing and my son wanting a dress at 3 is part of his learning process and I totally support that. If people make fun of that, that is their problem and of course we have to deal with it - but it really is their issue.

If clothing choices were innate, boys would innately NEVER wear dresses.


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## EmilyVorpe (Apr 26, 2007)

I am very sure I will not allow my sons to wear female's clothing. I've allowed nailpolish when he was under the age of 3, but that's actually something I feel weird about now.
I do not want my children thinking that whatever they want to wear is fine with me. Because it's not. Just because its out there, doesn't mean its for everyone's body. My teenage daughters (when they get there) aren't going to be able to tell me they want to wear little tanktops, tube tops, short shorts, skirts, or dresses. They will be dressed in clothes that are appropriate for age/weather/modesty. I'm not a terribly modest person, but...my children won't get to chose to show off body parts that don't need to be advertised.
My sons--they won't get to wear big huge baggy pants that show their bums (or boxers...whichever they decide). They won't get to wear clothing with chains, cuss words, or negative messages on them. They will wear nice clothes and look respectable. I'm firmly in my thoughts that your kids wear what you buy and that's what's acceptable to them. You don't have to give a very long explanation as to why they can't wear something. My 5 year old wants to wear girls heels. I said no. He asked why. "Because those are for women to wear with their pretty clothes. You have nice shoes to wear with your handsome clothes." the end. And if he asks again, it gets repeated. No big explanation on why the feminist movement happened, no burning bras conversation, nothing other than "Those are women's. your sisters won't wear your dress clothes, you don't wear theirs. the end"


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

If it makes you feel better..get costumes that are dresses so it is more like dressup.

My older 2 children were a boy and a girl. They would put on each others clothes all the time. They wanted to be exactly alike. But the dresses came off at the door. We did not wear them out in public.

My younger 2 children are both boys. They have costumes like Star Wars Jedi and such. Those are like dresses and they have never complained. They actually went to preschool so I think their gender roles were set pretty early so I never had to worry I guess. But they did not go until 3.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Kilt time......................

LOL love men in kilts.

I do think how other people would precieve it is relative but for an older child.

At 2 I would let him were a dress, paint nails, et as they grow you discuss how people judge you by how you dress. You let them know it is ok to dress in that fashion but don't be prepared for others judgement.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lisa1970* 
They actually went to preschool so I think their gender roles were set pretty early so I never had to worry I guess.

Wow.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nina_yyc* 
No, never. I don't have a boy though







. But if I did, I wouldn't. I don't let DD go out in inside out, non-matching, or non-season-appropriate clothes either. *I think presentation is important* and I would like to present my family as typical of our culture's values and norms and appropriately dressed for the occasion. I don't like the idea of other people judging me and I also want my kids to feel like they 'belong' and are like everybody else. *Clothes are shorthand for strangers about who you are.* I'm all for fighting the patriarchy but I'm picking my battles. Strangers thinking my kids are weirdos? Nope. DH making dinner and getting up with the baby? Check.

I just found this interesting - these are pretty much exactly the reasons I would have for trying to provide space for my child to dress the way he wants (and to know how to dress to fit in if he needs to do that, as well). That is, if he wants to present himself as a guy in a dress to strangers, I would want him to be able to.

It's interesting!

BTW I work in a fashion-related industry. Irony.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

I would let my boys if they wanted to. it's just clothes.


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## Down2Earth (Jan 23, 2008)

Sure, in the context of men's clothing, like a kilt.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

At age 2, I let DS wear his big sister's hand-me-downs (or clothes from their current closets!) if he wanted to. He was too young to care. He even wore a dress to preschool once when he was 3 (but he did come home in the "boy clothes" I packed for him.)

Somewhere around age 4 or 5 he picked up on the idea that "other kids care about this boy/girl stuff, and I should keep the girly stuff at home so I don't get teased." I never enforced that, except to gently remind him "are you sure you really want to go out wearing that?" after he'd already made the connection.


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## Zenful (Jun 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
In the future yes, right now no.

If when DS is old enough to understand the difference between gender appropriate cloths and cross dressing he makes a conscious decision to cross dress then I will support him. However, I do not want to waste half my clothing budget buying 3yo DS sparkly pink high heeled shoes that neither fit him nor go with any of his other cloths.

Are you sure that pointing means he wants one?

I never said anything about spending a wad of money...nor did I say anything about sparkly pink high heeled shoes









And, yes, I know my son...pointing to himself is his way of saying that he wants it for himself (he doesn't speak very well, so I've had to learn his body language).


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## Zenful (Jun 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
If people think he's a girl, that's fine. He doesn't care. If people think we're odd, that's fine too. We are.









Yup, took the words right out of my mouth


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## Zenful (Jun 27, 2009)

After reading what's been said so far, what pops up in my mind is how did pant-wearing become normal for women in our society? It didn't just happen overnight...some bold, daring women had to decide they were going to do it no matter what judgments they were going to inevitably face by society. That got the ball rolling and helped less daring women feel comfortable with "dressing like a man". I see the same thing possibly happening with traditional girl clothing--the more boys and men want to wear feminine clothing (and not just in a "cross-dressing" context, either...wearing them as a part of every day life) the more acceptable it will become over time. I'd imagine this would be quite a bit more difficult for males since the ridicule of a boy being "gay" or "girly" seems to be much more intense than it has been for girls being "manly" or "butch" or what have you. That could just be my perspective, though.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:

some bold, daring women had to decide they were going to do it no matter what judgments they were going to inevitably face by society.
My great grandmother was one of those women! we hear the stories all the time and my DD was named after her!


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## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I just found this interesting - these are pretty much exactly the reasons I would have for trying to provide space for my child to dress the way he wants (and to know how to dress to fit in if he needs to do that, as well). That is, if he wants to present himself as a guy in a dress to strangers, I would want him to be able to.

It's interesting!

BTW I work in a fashion-related industry. Irony.









Not ironic at all







Perhaps you think of clothes as a means of expressing your personality, which is totally appropriate to your industry! I don't think of clothes that way; I have a hard enough time pulling together something that looks appropriate without worrying about expressing how I feel on the inside.

BTW, I work in the television industry and limit TV.







Hey, if I worked in a brewery I wouldn't get my kids drunk.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

I would and I have. My son wore a dress practically the entire summer he was four. He looked adorable.

He's nine now and more of a pants and shirt type of guy.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipumpkins* 
For those of you who say, "no" how do you explain it to the little kid?

When DS is trying on all the pink sparkly shoes, I simply say "You are not old enough to understand the repercussions of cross dressing." Of course once he is old enough to understand, then if he still wants pink sparkly shoes, I'll help him find a pair that fit and don't have too high heels.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zenful* 
I never said anything about spending a wad of money...nor did I say anything about sparkly pink high heeled shoes









Yes, I know, but DS has no interest in having a dress, but tried to convince me to get him some once, and I said no.

Quote:

After reading what's been said so far, what pops up in my mind is how did pant-wearing become normal for women in our society? It didn't just happen overnight...some bold, daring women had to decide they were going to do it no matter what judgments they were going to inevitably face by society.
In ancient Rome, pant wearing for _men_ was considered something _only_ Barbarians did.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

You know what's funny? If you look at older artwork, from times when gender restrictions were even more defined...toddlers of both genders wore long gowns. I have even seen artwork with older boys (looking to be 4-6 yo) wearing dresses. The one in my son's curriculum, it was a boy wearing a dress, carrying a sword.


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## Ceili (Nov 21, 2001)

A two year old boy in a dress isn't likely to be made fun of by strangers, 99% of them will just assume the child is a girl and go on from there. And friends get used to it pretty quickly

And at 4 years old my son was perfectly able to understand the consequences of doing something outside of gender norms. He didn't want to cut his hair and I didn't want to force/bribe him into doing it, so he had really long blond, curly hair and everyone who didn't know him assumed he was a girl (regardless of what he was wearing which was mostly typical "boy" clothes). When he started to notice that people thought he was a girl and seemed to be getting upset about it, we talked about it a lot and he decided it didn't matter to him, he liked his hair. Six months later he chose on his own to get his hair cut with no big drama. I asked him why, he said it was hot and got in his eyes too much when he was swimming. He still likes to wear his pink shirt with the shiny butterflies on it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EmilyVorpe* 
I am very sure I will not allow my sons to wear female's clothing. I've allowed nailpolish when he was under the age of 3, but that's actually something I feel weird about now.
*I do not want my children thinking that whatever they want to wear is fine with me. Because it's not. Just because its out there, doesn't mean its for everyone's body.* *My teenage daughters (when they get there) aren't going to be able to tell me they want to wear little tanktops, tube tops, short shorts, skirts, or dresses. They will be dressed in clothes that are appropriate for age/weather/modesty. I'm not a terribly modest person, but...my children won't get to chose to show off body parts that don't need to be advertised.*

*My sons--they won't get to wear big huge baggy pants that show their bums (or boxers...whichever they decide). They won't get to wear clothing with chains, cuss words, or negative messages on them. They will wear nice clothes and look respectable.* I'm firmly in my thoughts that your kids wear what you buy and that's what's acceptable to them. You don't have to give a very long explanation as to why they can't wear something. *My 5 year old wants to wear girls heels. I said no. He asked why. "Because those are for women to wear with their pretty clothes. You have nice shoes to wear with your handsome clothes."* the end. And if he asks again, it gets repeated. No big explanation on why the feminist movement happened, no burning bras conversation, nothing other than "Those are women's. your sisters won't wear your dress clothes, you don't wear theirs. the end"

I wouldn't let my son wear short shorts, tube tops or inappropriately short dresses either. Or let my daughters (if I had any) wear pants that were so low that their underwear showed, or clothes with inappropriate messages on them. And I wouldn't let a 5 year old child of either sex wear heels. You can have boundaries about what is appropriate clothing without them being based on arbitrary gender roles. For example I don't buy clothes with characters or logos on them.


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## NicaG (Jun 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
My reason for not wanting to allow my teenage daughter to walk around topless have to do with the unwanted attention she might get from men in our highly sexualized culture, not because I think there's anything "wrong" with women being topless (particularly since it's perfectly acceptable, culturally, for men to be topless). So, if you don't want your son to wear a dress, because you are worried about unwanted attention, teasing, etc., I can understand that--it's not where I choose to draw my line, and I think the general observance of rigid gender norms is harmful, but I can understand, even if I don't agree. But if you don't want your son to wear a dress or a pink shirt because you think those things are "inherently for girls," then I don't get it. Nothing is "inherently for girls" or "inherently for boys"--we choose, culturally, what those things are, and what we choose is constantly in flux.

But, personally, I simply don't agree that there is "gender-appropriate" clothing. I know some people do, but I don't. What about having a penis would make a skirt inappropriate? It might still be cool and comfortable for a boy to wear. Nothing about havin a vagina makes pants inappropriate for girls. Girls and boys are much physically similar than they are different, so I think it is quite reasonable that some boys would prefer skirts as more comfortable, just as some girls do--and just as some girls find pants more comfortable.

I'm under no illusion that there's some kind of innate universal standard that says dresses are for girls and pants are for boys. Obviously it's totally random that these rules developed in our culture. There's no article of clothing that's inherently gender-appropriate. The culture we live in determines what's appropriate. I don't assign some kind of moral judgment to kids wearing inappropriate clothing. I just prefer to dress my kids in clothing that doesn't draw unwanted attention to them. And if I'm going to subvert the dominant culture, clothing standards is not a battle I find particularly productive or meaningful.

And really, everyone follows cultural standards sometimes. So I find it disingenuous to say that of course it's fine if boys wear dresses because that happens in other cultures, but then you wouldn't encourage your kids to follow the accepted clothing standards in other cultures when it comes to certain other articles of clothing, or lack thereof. I understand the argument that topless girls have a sexualized connotation in our culture....but don't boys in dresses also have a sexualized connotation to some people?

I don't really have much invested in this issue, I just find the debate interesting. And I'm not raising my kids with overly rigid ideas about gender, for goodness sake. I've thought through the issue, and for our family, I prefer if our kids stick with clothes that are appropriate for their gender in our culture.


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## Shera971 (Nov 26, 2008)

Hmm, I think it would depend on his age. Right now if my son (who's 4) would want to wear one around the house I'd be fine with it, however outside of the house I'm not sure. I would be afraid of some one making fun of him and making him feel bad. "Girly" shirts or pants would be ok I guess. He really does like butterflies and you don't EVER see those on boys clothes. When he is older and can understand what his decision might mean (I don't know, I guess 8??), then I'd say go for it.

He has asked to wear nailpolish once and I said no, its for grown-ups only. But that was b/c I really didn't want to put those chemicals on his body.

But this discussion is completely mute in our house. DS could care less what he is wearing. Clothes are just something that interferes with his nakedness LOL


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## bwylde (Feb 19, 2004)

My 7yoDS wears dresses all the time. Everyone in our family is comfortable with it, including relatives and his friends (all girls, FTR). He only wears them around the house and wears them for fun (as in he is aware of gender roles). Otherwise he wears and prefers boyish clothing for going out. My 4yoDD often wears his clothes and they pretend to be each other. Sometimes they both wear princess dresses. I have no problem with it. He also has long hair, which I have no problem with but DH has a problem with that as people think he's a girl. DS knows he's a boy and IMO has the right to choose what he wears.


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## katiesk (Nov 6, 2007)

Quote:

They actually went to preschool so I think their gender roles were set pretty early so I never had to worry I guess.
oh, good thing.

seriously?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daffodil* 
I let DS wear his sister's dresses and skirts, but he's mostly just worn them around the house. I feel weird about taking him out in public in a dress, but I'd also feel weird about telling him he absolutely couldn't wear a dress.

Ditto. DS2 has never worn a dress out of the house, but he did wear a satiny, pale purple nightgown, with flowery trim at the neck as a shirt when we went out to a homelearning meetup. He told me it was his "chainmail". I didn't mind.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
My son ran around the house in princess costumes for a few weeks when he was 3 or 4. Other than that, no, I wouldn't let him wear skirts or dresses if he asked (he never asked). Is there something wrong with boys being boys and girls being girls?

My boys are boys, no matter what they're wearing. My girls are girls, no matter what they're wearing. I honestly don't even understand this sentiment. Dresses are about fashion, and cultural requirements/stereotypes, not about inherent gender differences. (I do believe there are some innate differences between genders, but I also believe they apply in general terms, not individual ones.)


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

ds has a equal number of "girl's" clothes and "boy's" clothes. He doesn't at this time have any dresses, but mostly because I haven't come across any that he likes. He'll be 2 in a week and has NO IDEA that he is a "boy".

He has long hair and is "beautiful" and people often think he's a girl, and that's fine, because there is nothing wrong with being a girl, sometimes people think he's a boy, and that's fine because there is nothing wrong with being a boy.

I am not going to teach my child that he can't do something because someone might "make fun"of him. If that were the case we would never be able to leave our home! He lives with 3 gay men, so should he not be able to spend time with them because "someone might say somethign MEAN to them?" Or should he not be able to spend time in public with my mom and her wife because, gasp, people might be rude! One of our house mates is black, should ds never be in public with him lest someone say something racist? My other housemate is Latina and often works with immigrants, oh no don't let ds out with her someone might have *something* to say about that!


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I'd be fine providing dresses jewlery heeled shoes whatever in a dress up setting but no I wouldn't allow it as part of there regular going out clothes.

Deanna


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nina_yyc* 
No, never. I don't have a boy though







. But if I did, I wouldn't. I don't let DD go out in inside out, non-matching, or non-season-appropriate clothes either. I think presentation is important and I would like to present my family as typical of our culture's values and norms and appropriately dressed for the occasion. I don't like the idea of other people judging me...

People judge. I know just as many people who are down on conformist clothing as people who are down on weird clothing.

And, fwiw, my dd1 used to go out in totally bizarre outfits - princess dresses with a Tae Kwon Do helmet and boots, with a glove on only one hand, for example. The only visible reactions she ever got were smiles, approving looks and positive comments.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I just found this interesting - these are pretty much exactly the reasons I would have for trying to provide space for my child to dress the way he wants (and to know how to dress to fit in if he needs to do that, as well). That is, if he wants to present himself as a guy in a dress to strangers, I would want him to be able to.

It's interesting!

BTW I work in a fashion-related industry. Irony.









It's also the reason we do the same. DD is allowed to pick out/make her own clothes. She has, from an early age, chose not to conform. Because of that people, especially her peers, seem to know that she doesn't do something just because everyone else is doing it. She has been judged, but she has also learned how to accept that not every likes the way she dresses. She's even been told she needs to be more feminine (her responce has been posts on MDC before... "I'm a girl, how much more feminin can I get?")


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## JollyGG (Oct 1, 2008)

I'd probably have a discussion very similar to the one we had about nail polish when he was 4.

DS: Will you paint my nails
Me: Sure

The next day when he had daycare in the morning

Me: Do you want me to take the nail polish off.
DS: No
Me: Do you want to wear it to daycare
DS: Yes, I like it
Me: You may get made fun off (brief discussion about why and what types of things people might say)
DS: I like it. I don't want to take it off
Me: Okay. Lets talk about some ways to handle it if someone makes fun of you...........

I'll admit we still paint nails but now it's usually toe nails during the winter when no one will see or we take it off before school. He's six now.

He did say at four that the other boys thought it was cool and it was the girls who made fun of him. While he decided in the future to keep the painted nails private he said that the day wasn't even that bad since he was ready for it had responses ready to possible comments. The other parents of boys admited to me that their boys also liked painting their nails.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Ya know... Somewhere along the way someone had to be willing to take the drastic step of letting their young son wear pants instead of something more like this


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## Shera971 (Nov 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbone_kneegrabber* 
I am not going to teach my child that he can't do something because someone might "make fun"of him. If that were the case we would never be able to leave our home! He lives with 3 gay men, so should he not be able to spend time with them because "someone might say somethign MEAN to them?" Or should he not be able to spend time in public with my mom and her wife because, gasp, people might be rude! One of our house mates is black, should ds never be in public with him lest someone say something racist? My other housemate is Latina and often works with immigrants, oh no don't let ds out with her someone might have *something* to say about that!

To me, those senarios you've decribed are important to stand up for and defend when/if other people make fun. To me, boys wearing dresses in public is not AS significant. If my son (who is 4) was adament about wearing a dress in public I would let him but if I could, I would try to redirect to try to protect him from the idiots. Though I'm sure (and hope!) when he is a teenager, he'll be wearing whatever he darn well pleases.


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## green betty (Jun 13, 2004)

I'm not sexist, and I certainly don't believe in discriminating against my own child based on the sexism of others, so yes. His body, he can wear whatever he likes on it.


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

Haven't read the replies, just answering the OP.

In theory, yes.

In practice, I'm not sure. I think it might depend when/ where.

DH wore a kilt in our wedding, he's getting a utilikilt for XMas, so DS will see his dad in his very manly "skirt" and may want one. That is fine.

But if he starts liking his baby sister's very girly skirts and dresses and wants to wear them? I am not sure. I'd probably let him and see what happens. If he wanted to wear it to regular daycare where he's been for 2 years, no problem.... they know him and one would care. But the first day of his new preschool? Maybe not.

This would have everything to do with protecting his feelings and being mocked and nothing to do with his actually wanting to wear the dresses. That's fine with me. It's other people and children being mean and making him feel like he's done something wrong when he hasn't that would be upsetting.


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
And, fwiw, my dd1 used to go out in totally bizarre outfits - princess dresses with a Tae Kwon Do helmet and boots, with a glove on only one hand, for example. The only visible reactions she ever got were smiles, approving looks and positive comments.

I think people are generally more approving of wacky than just... boy in dress. Wacky sort of makes its own sense. A boy in a dress is just confusing to a lot of people, it seems.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shera971* 
To me, those senarios you've decribed are important to stand up for and defend when/if other people make fun. To me, boys wearing dresses in public is not AS significant. If my son (who is 4) was adament about wearing a dress in public I would let him but if I could, I would try to redirect to try to protect him from the idiots. Though I'm sure (and hope!) when he is a teenager, he'll be wearing whatever he darn well pleases.









Who says standing up for boys wearing dresses isn't as important? Not all of those who are boys physically are actually boys. If we stand up for a boys right to wear a dress in public, we stand up for the right of transgendered boys and men to dress in the way they are comfortable with. Should I not let my children go anywhere with their transgendered honourary "aunt" because someone might make a rude comment about dresses being for girls?


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Who says standing up for boys wearing dresses isn't as important? Not all of those who are boys physically are actually boys. If we stand up for a boys right to wear a dress in public, we stand up for the right of transgendered boys and men to dress in the way they are comfortable with. Should I not let my children go anywhere with their transgendered honourary "aunt" because someone might make a rude comment about dresses being for girls?









:

especially considering ds has almost more trans folks in his life than non-transfolks

btw i often find myself agreeing you!


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Snuzzmom* 
I think people are generally more approving of wacky than just... boy in dress. Wacky sort of makes its own sense. A boy in a dress is just confusing to a lot of people, it seems.

How many people even notice? When my son wears a dress, people assume he's a girl unless I say otherwise.

If it's people who know you . . . then they are either in a professional position in which they should absolutely NOT say anything negative (ie: daycare provider, story people at the library, etc) or friends who should understand that you think it's important to let your children's preferences, not gender roles, define them.

ETA: And if someone DOES say something negative, wouldn't it be great for your kids to see you standing up for them and their choices?


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## EarthMommy80 (Feb 8, 2007)

My answer is Yes! I would let my son wear a dress.

My brother wore dresses in high school.
I looked a lot and dressed a lot like a boy.

We are normal healthy adults.

We got ridiculed, but it only helped to cement our beliefs and make us who we are now.


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## tankgirl136 (Dec 13, 2008)

I think the idea of protecting your children through what they wear sometimes to be a very silly idea. I was a child who wanted to express myself through clothing and I was kept to a very short lead. I was only allowed to wear what my parents/grandparents purchased and was forced to heavily conform in part because of the idea "we are judge based on how our children look". As I grew older I was shoved tight into this box and I started to have issues in dealing with people and my self image because of these rules.

In Junior High I started to "sneak" clothing, friends let me borrow things and I would change when I got to school and change back when I left school. These pieces were very skimpy, and it was a form of me still trying to be like the girls around me.

In High School I was able to start buying my own clothing, ONLY with my own money (and what I had was minimal), or I had to wear what was purchased for me (much more money spent on these). One day I realised I did not care what people thought of me, I am not their reflection of me, and I could be better then these expectations. I chose a VERY dramatic first day of school outfit and never looked back. My clothing was often times very covering but was not in the "norm". I never felt better about myself and ironically I tended to notice less judgement from those around me (except my family). I actually did better in school and I think I became a better adult because of this change.

Overall I learned in my life experience, that conforming to conform is not always the healthy route. I mean if it was we would all be jumping on many commonly held parenting ideas around here (highly medicalized births, CIO, blind consumerism etc.). I understand sticking to religious beliefs and modesty beliefs, when it comes to covering the body, but I would say in that case then men and women should be in dresses or robes as they are by far the best way to truly be modest for men and women. Pants are not modest for men or women.

After a lot of rambling, yes I will let my soon to be here son wear clothing that might be percieved as fem. if he asks. He will have kilts early on since in our group it is very exceptable for men to wear them so we think nothing of boys or girls wearing them. I also deal with renactment groups were people still dress boys in the dresses shown above. I would put my son in one if they just weren't so hot!! I just don't see the big deal.

Lastly pink was associated up till the 20th century with boys/men because of the connection to the blood of Christ. Blue was associated with girl's because of the association to Mary. I think that idea of protecting boys brought the change, but find it very interesting there was just a dramatic shift.


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## Shera971 (Nov 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Who says standing up for boys wearing dresses isn't as important? Not all of those who are boys physically are actually boys. If we stand up for a boys right to wear a dress in public, we stand up for the right of transgendered boys and men to dress in the way they are comfortable with.

Hmm, hadn't thought of that.

I guess my thoughts are that its totally ok for a boy to wear a dress and I support it BUT I find it hard if it has to be my little guy to be the leader and to be taking the "hits" so to speak. I want him to stand up for what he believes in but I also want to protect him from EVERYTHING. Not possible I know, but it breaks my heart when some one is mean to him. *sigh*


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## Amys1st (Mar 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
But, personally, I simply don't agree that there is "gender-appropriate" clothing. I know some people do, but I don't. What about having a penis would make a skirt inappropriate? It might still be cool and comfortable for a boy to wear. Nothing about havin a vagina makes pants inappropriate for girls. Girls and boys are much physically similar than they are different, so I think it is quite reasonable that some boys would prefer skirts as more comfortable, just as some girls do--and just as some girls find pants more comfortable.

the penis and skirt things reminds me of halloween party I went to in college. A guy came dressed up as a girl in a dress. At one point outside I heard someone in the bushes, who comes out but this guy. He remarks, man this skirt makes it so much easier to pee in the bushes.

There was a little boy in dd1's preschool class who always put on the big fancy dress in the costumes. No one thought anything of it just like no one said anything to the little girl in the class who wore the fireman coat all the time. There might be something on the dress that attracts their attention whether shiny, sleek on them, comfort whatever but they usually leave it behind as they grow. HTH!


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shera971* 
Hmm, hadn't thought of that.

I guess my thoughts are that its totally ok for a boy to wear a dress and I support it BUT I find it hard if it has to be my little guy to be the leader and to be taking the "hits" so to speak. I want him to stand up for what he believes in but I also want to protect him from EVERYTHING. Not possible I know, but it breaks my heart when some one is mean to him. *sigh*

Any parent wants to protect their child from everything bad. Dh and I have reached the desicion that the best way to do that is to teach our children how to handle the critisism.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Any parent wants to protect their child from everything bad. Dh and I have reached the desicion that the best way to do that is to teach our children how to handle the critisism.









I tend to feel the same way. DS1 is more comfortable with himself than almost anybody else I know. Some of that is his inborn personality - he's been resilient and very confident from the day he arrived. But, some of it, imo, is that he had practice dealing with pressure on little things. In his case, it was his hair. He used to get teased a lot for having long hair, and did want to cut it at one point. I was fine with that, but wanted him to think about it and decide if that was what _he_ really wanted...and he did that, and he came back and told me it was his hair, and he liked it that way, and he didn't care if the other kids did or not. He was 6.


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Any parent wants to protect their child from everything bad. Dh and I have reached the desicion that the best way to do that is to teach our children how to handle the critisism.









Yes, indeed.
We've had to do this all the way anyway. One of our kids with severe special needs has a lot of equipment, o2 in her nose and o2-tank in her backpack (tiny) or wheelchair, g-tube hooked up to a feeding pump and bag of food in her little backpack, farrell bag on it etc. And you know, she's running around sometimes. People stare. People comment.
You have to deal with it.
Our little boy in a dress would just not be noticed beside her.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

I might have my history wrong but I remember hearing something about women not being allowed to wear pants?


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipumpkins* 
For those of you who say, "no" how do you explain it to the little kid?
I am asking b/c i just can not fathom myself saying, "No b/c those are only for girls"
I can't think of a scenario where I would have to say that to a girl. .

I wouldn't buy a child-sized 3-piece suit for my 2-3 yo girl. I'd say "that's for boys." I've thought about it a lot, and I just don't have an issue with some clothing being for boys and some being for girls. It just doesn't bother me.

When my dc is old enough to make a informed decision about cross-gender dressing, I will be supportive of that choice. My dd is 8, and I would consider her old enough to make that choice now.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Should I not let my children go anywhere with their transgendered honourary "aunt" because someone might make a rude comment about dresses being for girls?

But your transgendered aunt id's as female, no? Or am I misunderstanding? Because then, arguably, she wears dresses _because_ dresses are for girls (women).


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
But your transgendered aunt id's as female, no? Or am I misunderstanding? Because then, arguably, she wears dresses _because_ dresses are for girls (women).

But physically she is male and those who don't know her see her as a man in a dress.


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## Dahlea (May 15, 2008)

Sure, why not?


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## Raene (Jul 24, 2008)

Yes!!! And in fact, I'd put my baby boy in a dress, too. Who cares? Give em some gender neutrality so they can find for themselves who they are.

Several of the boys at my daughter's preschool come to school in their sister's dresses and no one comments...it's pretty normal in my hippie town.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
But physically she is male and those who don't know her see her as a man in a dress.

But why does she choose a dress? Because it is for women, no?


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
I wouldn't buy a child-sized 3-piece suit for my 2-3 yo girl. I'd say "that's for boys." I've thought about it a lot, and I just don't have an issue with some clothing being for boys and some being for girls. It just doesn't bother me.

When my dc is old enough to make a informed decision about cross-gender dressing, I will be supportive of that choice. My dd is 8, and I would consider her old enough to make that choice now.

I think my 3yo dd would look adorable in a 3-piece suit!







True, I probably wouldn't go out of my way to but it for her, but I do buy her some clothing from the boys' section--she loves dinosaur shirts, for instance, and you'd be hard pressed to find anything with dinosaurs in the girls' section. And the boys' styles are often simpler and often have more solid and bright colors (I HATE when the only girls' shirts have slogans like "Born to Shop" or "Diva").

Dh, by the way, wears lots of pink and lavender shirts and looks fantastic in those colors.







Even his dad, who has extremely rigid notions of gender, rocks the pink polo shirt sometimes.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
Even his dad, who has extremely rigid notions of gender, rocks the pink polo shirt sometimes.


















I grew up in the 80s. Oddly enough, most of the really macho umm...UAVs...habitually wore pink polo shirts. The guys I knew who wouldn't be caught dead in pink were actually _less_chauvinistic and macho, overall.


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## nerdymom (Mar 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
If girls can wear pants and still be girls, then boys can wear dresses and still be boys.

This is the heart of the issue for me. If my son wanted to wear a dress, I'd let him. And if someone was gauche enough to say something about the impropriety of what my toddler is wearing, I'd have a few uncouth words of my own to share. What you put on your body does NOT make you who you are. I can put on DH's uniform, but that doesn't make me a Coastie.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
I think my 3yo dd would look adorable in a 3-piece suit!







True, I probably wouldn't go out of my way to but it for her, but I do buy her some clothing from the boys' section--she loves dinosaur shirts, for instance, and you'd be hard pressed to find anything with dinosaurs in the girls' section. And the boys' styles are often simpler and often have more solid and bright colors (I HATE when the only girls' shirts have slogans like "Born to Shop" or "Diva").

Dh, by the way, wears lots of pink and lavender shirts and looks fantastic in those colors.







Even his dad, who has extremely rigid notions of gender, rocks the pink polo shirt sometimes.









My ds wears pink, as does my dh. I love pink on my dh. My dd wears stuff from the boy's section sometimes. A t-shirt is a t-shirt, and a sweatshirt is a sweatshirt.

I see dresses and suits differently, though. They are "formal girl" and "formal boy". I don't have a problem with that, or teaching my young child that reality in our culture. If, understanding that reality, my dc chooses to go against it, I would fully support it.


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## Shera971 (Nov 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
she loves dinosaur shirts, for instance, and you'd be hard pressed to find anything with dinosaurs in the girls' section.

What is it with that??? DS loves dinos and its easy to find something for him but I've NEVER seen anything for a girl. I can't believe no one in the clothing industry has thought "Gee, I wonder if girls like dinosaurs?"


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## darien (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes, I would. Neither of my boys have ever asked, though. Ds4.5 does have pink shoes and Hello Kitty sneakers-- and gets asked by almost every child who has seen them "Why are you wearing girl shoes?"







:


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## cloe (Jul 22, 2004)

No I wouldn't. But it is far more complicated, I would let, and do have my daughter dress in her brothers hand me downs. I don't and won't, let my daughter dress in pink and white frills, as I don't let my son dress in camaflage print. I think all this is a matter of taste, however if my son wanted to play dress up and happened to be the one in a dress I would let him, just as I let him push pink strollers around as a toddler, with pleasure.


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## Mountaingirl79 (Jul 12, 2008)

I would let my kids wear whatever they are comfortable in, as long as it doesn't have rips or tears in it. (lol I have to throw some of their clothes away eventually or they would wear it till it crumbled off, much like my dh and his clothes.







) My boys have never really asked to wear skirts or dresses, but we watch princess movies together.







I guess there hasn't been much of an opportunity to wear those things, since I am not much of a skirt wearer myself.

One of my 6 year old's male classmates wore a long skirt to school a couple of time in kindergarten and no one batted an eye.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
But why does she choose a dress? Because it is for women, no?

No because she enjoys wearing a dress...

Just like babymomma wouldn't wear one to save her life. She's also a woman.

Many guys I went to school with work skirts, not kilt type skirts either. They were all males and just liked the freedom.

But when talking about rude comments others might make, what someone identifies with doesn't matter because society has a hard time looking past the equipment.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
My ds wears pink, as does my dh. I love pink on my dh. My dd wears stuff from the boy's section sometimes. A t-shirt is a t-shirt, and a sweatshirt is a sweatshirt.

I see dresses and suits differently, though. They are "formal girl" and "formal boy". I don't have a problem with that, or teaching my young child that reality in our culture. If, understanding that reality, my dc chooses to go against it, I would fully support it.

Not all dresses are formal. Some are fun dresses. I'm pretty sure what DD is wearing wouldn't be allowed at a formal gathering. It is a dress though.

(P.S. DD has worn a 3 piece suit before, and she was still 100% girl)


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NicaG* 
And yes, there's no equivalent for girls. There's no real way for a girl to dress up as a boy in our culture. Maybe getting a boy's haircut? I have a son and a daughter and I don't think there's anything wrong with saying there's a different rule here for boys and girls.

My issue is that it's not really that there are _different_ rules for boys and girls, it's that there _are_ rules for boys and _no_ rules for girls when it comes to clothing. A girl can wear whatever she wants -- no parts of the clothing spectrum are off-limits to her. But a boy just isn't allowed to wear nearly 50% of the clothes that are out there. That just doesn't seem right, or fair.

Someone mentioned 3-piece suits as being a clothing item that's traditionally not worn by girls/women. Quite a few girls (including myself) posed in a suit and bow tie for our senior portraits in high school rather than the off-the-shoulder dress thing. And quite a few girls went to the prom in a suit instead of a dress. No one batted an eye, or questioned our sexuality, or described what we were doing as cross-dressing, or had any comment whatsoever on the matter apart from "You look so cute!".


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## Mountaingirl79 (Jul 12, 2008)

True! This is a good and OT time to mention that I went to my prom with a girl.







Good times, good times.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

I didn't have a prom, but I went to my grad dinner with a boy and a 4 yo. Good times.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Not all dresses are formal. Some are fun dresses. I'm pretty sure what DD is wearing wouldn't be allowed at a formal gathering. It is a dress though.

(P.S. DD has worn a 3 piece suit before, and she was still 100% girl)

I didn't mean formal as in formal-wear. I guess I meant formal as in making a statement. In our culture, toddler dresses (even casual dresses) say "girl". In our culture, toddler 3 piece suits say "boy". I just don't have an issue with that.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Quite a few girls (including myself) posed in a suit and bow tie for our senior portraits in high school rather than the off-the-shoulder dress thing. And quite a few girls went to the prom in a suit instead of a dress. No one batted an eye, or questioned our sexuality, or described what we were doing as cross-dressing, or had any comment whatsoever on the matter apart from "You look so cute!".

My opinion about that is that that men are more valued than women....so women dressing "like a man" is acceptable (why not?), and men dressing like a woman is not (why would you want to do that??). Ultimately, these rules don't make me feel bad for boys because I see them as a strike against girls.

I think women in suits are _totally_ sexy. I get that women can wear suits. But, if you put your 2 yo in a 3 piece suit, people will think she is a boy







:


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
I wouldn't buy a child-sized 3-piece suit for my 2-3 yo girl. I'd say "that's for boys." I've thought about it a lot, and I just don't have an issue with some clothing being for boys and some being for girls. It just doesn't bother me.


The problem I have with parents using this ("No you can't wear that because it's for girls") is that it makes it even more difficult for those children who choose not to conform in this way. Why do you think kids would tease and make fun of a boy wearing a dress? It's because people, like their parents, are telling them that _boys don't do that_, so what are they supposed to think/feel/do when they come face to face with a boy who does, in fact, do that?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
My opinion about that is that that men are more valued than women....so women dressing "like a man" is acceptable (why not?), and men dressing like a woman is not (why would you want to do that??). Ultimately, these rules don't make me feel bad for boys because I see them as a strike against girls.

I think women in suits are _totally_ sexy. I get that women can wear suits. But, if you put your 2 yo in a 3 piece suit, people will think she is a boy







:

How are woman going to be viewed as any more valuble if being feminin continues to be something to avoid?

There are plenty of women in my life I look up to and try to emulate at times because of who they are.

Why would I want to assume someone is less valuble to the world just because they are a woman or emulate one?


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
I think women in suits are _totally_ sexy. I get that women can wear suits. But, if you put your 2 yo in a 3 piece suit, people will think she is a boy







:

Eh, I'd bet if I put my almost 4 year old (boy) in a 3 piece suit, people would still assume he's a girl.


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## mama516/419 (Feb 15, 2009)

This queston scares me . It seems so innocent but it actualy is very loaded for many diffrent reasons. I agree with a PP that girls dressing like boys is like " stepping up" where as reversing it is like saying " why on earth would you want to be like a girl"and for that reason alone it would be like insulting the female race to tell him dressing like a girl is below him. Also as a GSA member I can see how making a child feel there is something wrong with dressing identifing as another gender would complicate things later when thouse kinds of conversations come up. And I understand that this "fad" of men not wearing dress/skirt has been around a long time but it hasnt been around since the beging . So in theroy I am all for the wearing of skirts by everyone. DD also shops in the boys department to get camo dinosaurs and trucks on her outfits ( clothing marketers havent realized girls like cars yet ethir)But when it comes to my son its going to be a hard pill to swallow . DH ( who is a real hard working manly man)said to me " he can wear it in the house whod care about that ?" So if he is so fine with it at home I should really be fine with it where ever .. its strange to me that Iam so scared of this , It must be that wanting to protect him from others thing
DS is only 15mo so I have some time to figure it out - BOL


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I have no problem with it. My son asked for a dress and I got him one; he hasn't opted to wear it out of the house yet but he can wear whatever he likes. He likes nail polish, so he wears that about as often as I do (4x a year







).

Even if certain things are innate to sex/gender (which, as research is showing, is way more complicated than a binary male/female model once you get into genitalia vs. chromosomes, etc. - http://www.scq.ubc.ca/genetics-of-se...nder-identity/), I do not honestly think that pink, bows, skirts, etc. have anything to do with it... have a look at different get ups historically across cultures. All that is imposed from our culture.

I do want my son to be aware of cultural norms and - he is. But I support his exploration however he wants to do it.









we are learning more about gender all the time. It's not as simple as everyone thinks, and gendered behavior in particular is largely a social construct. norms for clothing change across cultures and over time; it's silly to "instill" them as if they were natural law or something.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
The problem I have with parents using this ("No you can't wear that because it's for girls") is that it makes it even more difficult for those children who choose not to conform in this way. Why do you think kids would tease and make fun of a boy wearing a dress? It's because people, like their parents, are telling them that _boys don't do that_, so what are they supposed to think/feel/do when they come face to face with a boy who does, in fact, do that?

AWESOME!!! thank you for posting that!


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JollyGG* 
I'd probably have a discussion very similar to the one we had about nail polish when he was 4.

DS: Will you paint my nails
Me: Sure

The next day when he had daycare in the morning

Me: Do you want me to take the nail polish off.
DS: No
Me: Do you want to wear it to daycare
DS: Yes, I like it
Me: You may get made fun off (brief discussion about why and what types of things people might say)
DS: I like it. I don't want to take it off
Me: Okay. Lets talk about some ways to handle it if someone makes fun of you...........

Well handled.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
The problem I have with parents using this ("No you can't wear that because it's for girls") is that it makes it even more difficult for those children who choose not to conform in this way. Why do you think kids would tease and make fun of a boy wearing a dress? It's because people, like their parents, are telling them that _boys don't do that_, so what are they supposed to think/feel/do when they come face to face with a boy who does, in fact, do that?

Yes, TOTALLY. Those of you who are using that line are definitely making the world more hurtful for some other kids.


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## Mama2Bug (Feb 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
The problem I have with parents using this ("No you can't wear that because it's for girls") is that it makes it even more difficult for those children who choose not to conform in this way. Why do you think kids would tease and make fun of a boy wearing a dress? It's because people, like their parents, are telling them that _boys don't do that_, so what are they supposed to think/feel/do when they come face to face with a boy who does, in fact, do that?

This is pretty much exactly what I wanted to say. When you tell children something as a hard and fast fact, they carry that into adulthood. A little boy who is told "Oh, no, you can't wear that skirt. Skirts are for girls and women!" feels a small shame for wanting to wear the skirt. He goes on to believe that other boys who wear skirts should feel shame. That same boy grows up into a man who thinks it's weird and not really acceptable for a male to wear a skirt, so when he *sees* a male (or what he perceives to be a male) who is, in fact, *in a skirt*, he makes a negative judgment about that person. When a parent teaches a child that kind of thing, they are teaching the future adult to discriminate and (goodness, let's hope not, but it's still a possibility) persecute those who do differently.

That's the whole thing. That's the cycle. That's the whole perpetration of the "no skirts on men" cultural norm. There is no other logical reason for it. It's just a silly construct that parents keep passing down.

"Men don't wear skirts."
"Why?"
"They just don't. (Because that's what I was told as a child.)"

Rinse and repeat for generations....

You can choose to contribute and help it along or recognize it as ridiculous and reject it.


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
The problem I have with parents using this ("No you can't wear that because it's for girls") is that it makes it even more difficult for those children who choose not to conform in this way. Why do you think kids would tease and make fun of a boy wearing a dress? It's because people, like their parents, are telling them that _boys don't do that_, so what are they supposed to think/feel/do when they come face to face with a boy who does, in fact, do that?

Indeed, great post.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
The problem I have with parents using this ("No you can't wear that because it's for girls") is that it makes it even more difficult for those children who choose not to conform in this way. Why do you think kids would tease and make fun of a boy wearing a dress? It's because people, like their parents, are telling them that _boys don't do that_, so what are they supposed to think/feel/do when they come face to face with a boy who does, in fact, do that?

FTR, I would never say "you can't wear that" about this kind of issue. I just wouldn't provide a dress for my young son.

I don't have an issue with gendered clothing. I _like_ gendered clothing. To me, gendered clothing is a tool we can all use to express ourselves (transgendered definitely included, since it has come up). I am open with my young children about gendered clothing. I see it as information about our culture--and, yes, I qualify it as our culture, literally saying "In our current culture...." when talking to my 8 yo.

I also do not have an issue with nonconformity. As I've said, if my older son understood the gender implications and chose to wear a dress, I'd support that.

I teach my dc to accept others as they are, as long as they are not hurting anyone. If my dc see a boy in a dress, they will recognize the boy is making and unconventional choice--and that is ok. I remind them of times they've made unconventional choices. I guess I just don't see the point of ignoring that it _is_ an unconventional choice in our current culture (and not in some hip subculture) for a boy/man to wear a dress. If my dc saw a transgendered woman in a dress, I'd explain that _she is a woman_, even if her outer appearance doesn't obviously reflect that.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
How are woman going to be viewed as any more valuble if being feminin continues to be something to avoid?

The clothing rules for boys/men are a reflection of women's value, not the cause of women's value.


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## AlmostAPpropriate (Oct 23, 2004)

Someone asked what about a skirt makes is innately female? I can't respond for other countries or cultures because I live in the US. But in the US a skirt is feminine. Look at any public bathroom door, signage in store indicating girls and boys clothing (separate sections). The very term Cross Dresser. The distinction is unavoidable in our country.

Not many children are going to thank their parents for being an outward expression of their - the parents - non-conformist and liberal beliefs.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:

Not many children are going to thank their parents for being an outward expression of their - the parents - non-conformist and liberal beliefs.
My child is not my expression..He has an older sister. He plays with girls. i am not going to tell him he can't do something that the girls can.
I am not making a statement. He is not making a statement. He likes dresses..it's everyone else's perception that makes YOU think I am using him as an outward expression of my non conformity.
If you knew me you would know I am not in any way using my children to express anything..they challenge me everyday and make me uncomfortable and challenge my bleifs..EVERYDAY.

I need help from non conformist friends to make see it's OK. I am not seeking out or advertising anything non conformist.
We are who we are..and we are not advertising non conformity around here.
some people think breastfeeding past 2 or even doing at all is just an outward expression of non conformity..it's not for the child it's for YOU they say. Can't I let my kid wear a dress just b/c he wants to?
Homeschooling is an expression of non conformity? Or is si just doing what works best for my kidsand my family?
Can't wearing a dress be the same..just another choice in along line choices?
Do we have to painted by the non conformist brush? Mainstream brush?
I am all these .very mainstream and very crunchy and very conformist and very non conformist...
I am human and so are my children..they are no advertisement!


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlmostAPpropriate* 

Not many children are going to thank their parents for being an outward expression of their - the parents - non-conformist and liberal beliefs.

I might be with you on that if we were talking about people forcing their children to "cross dress." However, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about parents not allowing their children to dress as they choose because it violates arbitrary social rules based on gender. I'm not going to make different rules for my kids based on what parts they have between their legs anymore than I would for what color hair they have, and I really don't understand how anyone justifies doing so.

In any case, I think just as few children would be grateful to their parents for being an outward expression of their - the parents - conformist and conservative beliefs.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlmostAPpropriate* 
Someone asked what about a skirt makes is innately female? I can't respond for other countries or cultures because I live in the US. But in the US a skirt is feminine. Look at any public bathroom door, signage in store indicating girls and boys clothing (separate sections). The very term Cross Dresser. The distinction is unavoidable in our country.

Not many children are going to thank their parents for being an outward expression of their - the parents - non-conformist and liberal beliefs.

But that is something cultural, not innate.


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

I didn't circumcise my son in case some people made fun of him someday for being intact. I didn't leave him intact in case some people made fun of him someday for being circumcised. I don't make my parenting decisions based on fear of other people's opinions.

I hear a lot of fear on this thread. As a parent who has actually brought her children out in public in pajamas, dress-up clothes, and cross-gendered clothes, please allow me to interject some actual real life experience here. I've never had a problem bringing my son out in dresses or skirts. He's never had a problem with it. He's been mistaken for a girl a bunch of times. I simply say that he's a boy and move on with the conversation. We've gotten a couple sidelong glances and even rolled eyes once, but no direct confrontation or even indirect confrontation. And we've done it a LOT. He's also gotten a ton of compliments about how cute he is. The positive interactions outstrip the even vaguely negative ones by so far it's funny.

I think parental attitude has a lot to do with it. I haven't gotten a lot of flack for any of my parental decisions, even when I know full well that family members or people around me don't agree with me. I'm confident and I have *boundaries* about how any discussion of my choices will play out. I express that in the way I carry myself, the way I hold my body when I talk, in my words. It's very effective. (Thanks, Mom! She totally modeled this to us.) I model this to my children as a healthy and effective way to live their lives the way they choose while interacting with the world.

There are always a couple people out there who might say something inappropriate to your children or about your parenting. How many threads have you read here about that stranger in the checkout line ranting about breastfeeding in public? Or not having a sunhat on your infant in the summer or a warm hat and socks on your child in winter? Or not having socks on your infant in the summer??

They're out there. But they aren't healthy, balanced people with strong manners and social awareness. Healthy, balanced people with strong manners and social awareness don't accost people in public with their opinions about someone else's choices. These are not people I'm going to live in fear of, or change my choices for. If we have a negative interaction with someone like that, I explain to my children that they aren't quite well and need a little latitude and understanding, but that what they say shouldn't be taken to heart.


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## SaraMum (May 17, 2009)

Yes i would definitely let DS wear a dress just like he has played outside in a diaper, undershirt, winter boots and a fireman's hat


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## JollyGG (Oct 1, 2008)

Turns out that age and understanding of the social ramifications IS important to me.

My son, age 6, told me today he wants a Mohawk. I said sure. I really don't care what my kids do with their hair - it will grow out. His little sister, age 3, says she wants a Mohawk too.

We aren't letting her get one at this point.

So I guess I found a fashion trend that females don't do that boys can. And I found out I'm more open about my son wearing a nail polish or a dress than I am my daughter sporting a Mohawk.

At this point I'm not sure if my issue is the gender differences, the age differences, or the permanence of the decision. A hair style will grow out but it can't be changed as quickly as nail polish or clothes.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

My mom used to teach a parent co-op preschool, and she says the boys always wanted to wear the girls' dresses. She thinks it's because girls' clothes tend to be so much more colorful and fun than boys'. Last week DS threw a fit because he wanted to wear his playmate's ruffly green swimsuit. We put it on him and he wore it happily for hours. He looked so cute I'm thinking about getting him one.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JollyGG* 
So I guess I found a fashion trend that females don't do that boys can. And I found out I'm more open about my son wearing a nail polish or a dress than I am my daughter sporting a Mohawk.
.

That's a great example! I've known lots of little boys with mohawks (often encouraged by the parents). I have yet to see a little girl with one. Is that different in different areas?


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Quote:

He has long hair and is "beautiful" and people often think he's a girl, and that's fine, because there is nothing wrong with being a girl, sometimes people think he's a boy, and that's fine because there is nothing wrong with being a boy.
You know, those who do prefer gender distinctions don't believe there is something wrong with being one gender or another.

I have boys. There is nothing wrong with being a girl, but they *are* boys, and they are not girls.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
The clothing rules for boys/men are a reflection of women's value, not the cause of women's value.

How we allow us to reflect a woman's value affect how those who learn from us (i.e. our children) value women. If we continue to reflect a woman's value as less then men then how do our children learn otherwise?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
FTR, I would never say "you can't wear that" about this kind of issue. I just wouldn't provide a dress for my young son.

Would you even refuse to provide a dress for your young son if he 1) expressed a strong desire to wear one and 2) exhibited emotional distress because he isn't allowed one?

Some people start young in their desire to express who they truely are.


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## katiesk (Nov 6, 2007)

Quote:

You know, those who do prefer gender distinctions don't believe there is something wrong with being one gender or another.

I have boys. There is nothing wrong with being a girl, but they *are* boys, and they are not girls.
true. but there is also nothing wrong with boys that want to be like girls or to be girls. nothing wrong with girls who want to be boys.

it might seem wrong to some - and make many many people uncomfortable, but it is clearly unhelpful to try to force someone to be who they are not...so while their genitals say they are a boy, what if the rest of them identifies with girl? does it end completely at the set of genitals they wind up with?

capp...not referring specifically to your boys! just boys generally...specifically ones who might identify as girls...


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
That's a great example! I've known lots of little boys with mohawks (often encouraged by the parents). I have yet to see a little girl with one. Is that different in different areas?

I think it is, mohawks are not gendered here. They are just an occasionally neat hairstyle from the 80's that you only see on kids or punk rockers.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cappuccinosmom* 
You know, those who do prefer gender distinctions don't believe there is something wrong with being one gender or another.

I have boys. There is nothing wrong with being a girl, but they *are* boys, and they are not girls.

Boys can't wear dresses though. Boys can wear girls clothes. I have a friend who is a boy, grew up to be a straight, non-gender confused man... He spend a couple of years with a wardrobe made up entirely of clothing from the little girls department because he flat out refused to wear any of the "icky boy stuff". It was either girls clothes or nude. His parents could have forced him into boy clothes and not honoured his preference, but they chose not to for no other reason then to teach their son that he can be whoever he wants and like whatever he wants. He is now married and father of four who still likes the colour pink.

So... dressing like the opposite gender doesn't dictate ones gender either pysically or psychologically. It just dictates someones likes and dislikes.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Would you even refuse to provide a dress for your young son if he 1) expressed a strong desire to wear one and 2) exhibited emotional distress because he isn't allowed one?

Some people start young in their desire to express who they truely are.

Yes, if the desire/reaction were extreme (rather than simply wanting to mimic his big sister), I would certainly honor that.

eta--but, my dc would still have the information about how society views gendered clothing. I guess my biggest point is that I don't understand pretending that society does _not_ gender type dresses. To me, that seems to be a bit fearful (as if it will harm a child to know that dresses are for "girl clothing" in our society). The way I see it, I prefer to be honest about the issue.


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## KimL (May 16, 2009)

my son never asked so I never had to consider it. He, at 6, wouldn't be caught dead in a skirt.

I'd probably warn him that, in this country, mostly just girls wear skirts. If he wants to wear one that is fine... but some other people may not understand why a boy is wearing a skirt.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
Yes, if the desire/reaction were extreme (rather than simply wanting to mimic his big sister), I would certainly honor that.

eta--but, my dc would still have the information about how society views gendered clothing. I guess my biggest point is that I don't understand pretending that society does _not_ gender type dresses. To me, that seems to be a bit fearful (as if it will harm a child to know that dresses are for "girl clothing" in our society). The way I see it, I prefer to be honest about the issue.

No ones said not to let your child know that society won't always look kindly on it. Just that using that as reason to not allow your son to wear a dress doesn't make much sense.

Society as a whole tends to be illogical about many things.


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## katiesk (Nov 6, 2007)

Quote:

So... dressing like the opposite gender doesn't dictate ones gender either pysically or psychologically. It just dictates someones likes and dislikes.
yeah, that too.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

If _my_ son wanted to - yes. So far he has shown no interest in wearing a dress but picked out his very own and very much loved pair of pink crocs - and he likes to wear glitter on his cheeks too! lol
He is wearing a kilt to a wedding we are going to - which he does call a skirt! lol - When it comes to traditional clothing like that, where is the line?


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
No ones said not to let your child know that society won't always look kindly on it. .

That hasn't actually been clear to me throughout the thread. It seemed to me the op is planning to get a dress for her 2.5 yo boy without explaining that dresses are girl clothing in our society. But maybe I misunderstood?

To clarify, I don't care what the op does with her son







. I have a different approach, and my own reasons for that, and to each their own.


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## PhoenixMommaToTwo (Feb 22, 2006)

I haven't read the other responses, but, yes I would let my son wear a skirt/dress. I do believe that there are differences between the genders, however I don't believe that it should be expressed in how we dress. Clothes are clothes, people. And I don't care a fig what society says. If I lived my life around society's standards, I'd be a completely different person than I am.


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## itsajenism (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JollyGG* 
I'd probably have a discussion very similar to the one we had about nail polish when he was 4.

DS: Will you paint my nails
Me: Sure

The next day when he had daycare in the morning

Me: Do you want me to take the nail polish off.
DS: No
Me: Do you want to wear it to daycare
DS: Yes, I like it
Me: You may get made fun off (brief discussion about why and what types of things people might say)
DS: I like it. I don't want to take it off
Me: Okay. Lets talk about some ways to handle it if someone makes fun of you...........


This is very close to the types of discussions I have with my DS who is 4.5.

DS has worn a tinkerbell outfit with wings, and a minnie mouse dress with high heels (his Grandmother bought these for him at his request) out in public many, many times. I would let him wear a dress/skirt too, if he wanted, but he's never asked for that specifically.
He has plenty of other "girl" things around that he's wanted and we had the extra money for.

We are also currently growing his hair out, at HIS request because he wants to wear pigtails and pony tails "like girls do". He's worn his tiny pigtails and pony tails out in public as well. I will have no problem doing hair styles that are "girly" if he asks for them.

He feels strongly about his decisions in doing these things.
In fact, his Grandfather tried to BRIBE him with toys to get him to cut his hair, and DS said "NO!".







:
Also, when he has been asked by the in-laws why he might want to do/wear/play with something that is seen as "girly" in society, he simply responds, "because I like it" and then goes about his own business.

He hasn't gotten a single negative look or comment from anyone in public, and I've never noticed anyone looking at me weird (but then again, I don't pay much attention to people when we're out) and as uncomfortable as it may be, I don't really care if we do.
People are judgmental assholes. If they don't judge you for one thing, there will be something else they judge you for that you can't avoid. I'd rather teach my child(ren) how to deal with these people and have confidence in himself despite things that may be said to him, rather than teaching him that he he has to conform to everyone around him because _their_ preference/belief about something might differ from his or cause people to think he's "weird".


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## barefootmama0709 (Jun 25, 2009)

I would let my boys wear dresses or skirts if they wanted to, but DH would be totally against it. He was raised by an ex-military dad who is pretty stuck on traditional male roles.


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## DaughterOfKali (Jul 15, 2007)

Ds can wear both boy and girl dress up clothes when he's inside. Can't really do it in the yard anymore because neighborhood kids make fun of him.

Playing dress up brings him such great joy.


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## Zenful (Jun 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
That's a great example! I've known lots of little boys with mohawks (often encouraged by the parents). I have yet to see a little girl with one. Is that different in different areas?

I've seen plenty of teenage girls and women with mohawks...but not young girls (I've lived mostly in different parts of California). Doesn't seem to be a trend (yet)


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

If my daughter wanted a mohawk, she could have one. If my youngest ds wanted one, I would be more hesitant, but only because he really loves his long hair, and before he had any kind of hair cut, I'd have to make sure he completely understood that his hair would be gone for a long time before it would grow back.


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## mrspineau (Jan 15, 2008)

I personally would have a problem with it. I am one of those people who believe that dresses and pink is for girls.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
If my daughter wanted a mohawk, she could have one. If my youngest ds wanted one, I would be more hesitant, but only because he really loves his long hair, and before he had any kind of hair cut, I'd have to make sure he completely understood that his hair would be gone for a long time before it would grow back.

We're already prepping for the backlash because dh and I agree that once dd is old enough to understand that haircuts are semi-permanent, she can do whatever she wants. (I think that might be somewhere around 6 years old, but it will depend on her.) She may be a traditionalist, of course, but she be more adventurous. My mom goes into a blind panic every time we so much as trim her hair, because she thinks girls HAVE to have "feminine" hair (my sister and I actually spent most of our adulthoods still feeling horrible and guilty every time we got our hair cut above shoulder length). As I said above, dh's parents are very rigid about gender norms and, in fact, anything that doesn't signal conformity.

If dd shows up at her grandparents' one day with a mohawk, there are going to be some raised eyebrows. But, of course, she can dye it pink so it's more appropriate for girls.


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## DaughterOfKali (Jul 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrspineau* 
I personally would have a problem with it. I am one of those people who believe that dresses and pink is for girls.

Really? Pink is for girls??


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaughterOfKali* 
Really? Pink is for girls??

Yeah, someone should tell that to my dh.

That's another thing I don't get: why is perfectly acceptable for ADULT males to wear pink, but not acceptable for male children? My dh wears pink, my dad wears pink button-downs to work, my FIL wears pink polo shirts--my dad and FIL, in particular, are pretty conservative, and neither thinks there is anything weird or daring about this.


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## pandora665 (Mar 13, 2006)

I've read most of this thread, and I would get a dress for my (hypothetical) son... if he ASKED.

Pointing to one could indicate a myriad of things, and I would be fine with putting one in the dress-up bin based on pointing. But.... I probably wouldn't wear it out for errands unless he actually asked to do so, with words. Mostly b/c I don't want to be the mom who "forced her boy to wear a dress". I'm more talking from my (hypothetical) son's perspective as a teenager/adult, rather than other people's perception of us. I would like my child to be able to say that he picked it, b/c dresses are a very gendered item in our current culture (even more so than skirts, IMHO). I would have no problem dressing a child of either gender in any color, before they could give their say.

My brother had really long hair as a preteen/teenager, and got mistaken for a girl a lot... but he was cool with it, and really didn't care what others thought. He also wore a kilt for his wedding. He didn't want to wear dresses to the grocery store, though. My mom would have likely let him, if he'd ever asked.

We had a wonderful friend/neighbor as a child who loved sparkles and boas, and he wore them everywhere.... but he asked to do that. He's now a former Olympic figure skater, so I guess it's good he could put up with a sparkle or two.









I would also prefer my daughter not put on her giant tulle dress to go on normal errands either. Fancy dresses are a PITA when pottying or anything else. I also imagine that most dresses are tricky for little boys to potty in if they stand up to pee, coordinating holding everything out of the way...

My two cents. Good luck.


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## hibiscus mum (Apr 6, 2009)

One of my fondest childhood memories is of my little brother wearing an old rainbow dress of mine. He used to love spinning around in it to make the skirt twirl. It's such a beautiful image in my mind. My brother was so attached to the dress that he wanted to wear it on his first day of preschool. My mom was hesitant and didn't want him to wear it, so she told him he could bring it with him, but had to wear something else.

All the kids sat in a circle at the start of preschool, and my little brother laid the dress out in front of him and just sort of stroked the material. That still makes me smile.

So, I'd like DS wear a dress if he were so inclined. I'm not sure how my husband would feel about it, though. I'll have to ask him later.


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## Mama2Bug (Feb 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrspineau* 
I personally would have a problem with it. I am one of those people who believe that dresses and pink is for girls.

Why?


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrspineau* 
I personally would have a problem with it. I am one of those people who believe that dresses and pink is for girls.

Say what now?
So my boys, and my dear can't wear pink? Or any other men and boys I know? What does it mean when they do then?


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## wanderinggypsy (Jul 26, 2005)

I have two sons. They can wear pink if they want. They've never wanted to, although my oldest did wear quite a bit of purple for a year or two.

I think I'd hesitate to let them go out in public wearing dresses, though. I mean, if it were important to them I suppose I'd relent, but I would try to gently explain to them that it would be very surprising to the general public to see boys in dresses. I would offer dressing up in them at home as compensation.

I think if it were a big enough issue that a boy were really insistent on wearing dresses in public, then that's probably part of the child's personality that you aren't going to successfully change by forcing a dress code on him. I think we as parents are here to offer guidance, but not force really super strict rules over things that fall into the realm of self-expression.

(As an aside, if the dress were 'prosti-tot' style, you know the type, really sleazy looking stuff designed for kids, neither my sons nor my daughter would be permitted to wear it, in or out of the house - I just hate that cheap crap that makes kids look like pageant freaks)


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## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Well, I've heard from several sources that pink used to be a "boy" color until WWII, when Nazis used the pink triangle to identify homosexuals in concentration camps.....http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=238733 If this is so, well, I'm certainly not going to enforce color rules started by Nazis on my kids....

I tend to tell children in my house that "the rainbow belongs to everyone" and it is ok for anyone to like any color. My sons happen to have a rose-pink and cranberry red room, because I painted it for my daughter six years ago and now it is theirs and they love it. When/if they want to change it, we'll do so.

My ds2 has a pair of pale purple crocs that make his feet dance when he wears them..and he has been known to wear his older sister's tshirts or dressup dresses out in public. He has also become attached to other odd items of clothing, like winter boots in July. I just say, "Nobody has a sense of style like a three yr old!" and most people smile and nod. He thinks pink is "the beautiful color" especially hot pink.

I tend to direct ds away from sparkly girly clothes in full-price stores, but I also only go into those stores with a very specific mission in mind -- like, coordinating dress shirts for my kids for a family portrait. And I never encouraged my dd to get really "girly" stuff either -- ime, few "girl" clothes are designed to be practical for active play. In a thrift store, anything goes.


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## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wanderinggypsy* 
I

(As an aside, if the dress were 'prosti-tot' style, you know the type, really sleazy looking stuff designed for kids, neither my sons nor my daughter would be permitted to wear it, in or out of the house - I just hate that cheap crap that makes kids look like pageant freaks)

Yeah, that.


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

My son is 9 now. When he was 3.5 he walked into a Disney store, saw all the glittery dresses on the wall and gasped.

I let him wear princess dresses at home ONLY (not around the neighborhood b/c I didn't want people reminding him of that for the rest of his life). He didn't like that rule, but that was fine.

He went to a little girlfriend's princess party wearing a princess dress.









DH was not happy with any of this and I told him to R-E-L-A-X and this was a phase and we should let it play out. It did. For weeks though in our play-based parent co-op preschool, he went to the costume area and wore girly dresses.









Eventually he lost interest.


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

I wouldn't let my ds wear a dress, people are cruel. I was already pushing it when I let him run naked on the beach when he was two, but at least at that age he didn't care about other people's comments. As people said before, the society we live in (and any society as a matter of fact) has preconceived ideas of what boys/girls/people in general are supposed to dress like and I'm not going to put ds through that. I experimented it on my own skin when I shaved my head at 20 y/o, but at least I was old enough to understand the repercussions of my own decisions.

To OP, I would let ds wear an adult-sized T-shirt, that should make him happy. My own ds is in the back yard right now wearing one of dh's sleevless Tshirts (no underwear on







) and enjoying the evening breeze.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrspineau* 
I personally would have a problem with it. I am one of those people who believe that dresses and pink is for girls.

*looks down at his shirt*

Uh oh...


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## earthgirl (Feb 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
*looks down at his shirt*

Uh oh...


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## denie77 (Jan 27, 2012)

Absolutely! Here's my reason, When Adam and Eve discovered they were naked, God made tunics for both of them, God could have made pants but HE didn't, HE made tunics out of animal skins. Tunics as you know are dresses. Except for reasons of occupation, the human body was never intended to wear pants. Pants are not healthy, they are confining and hot and as a result produce a perfect environment for bacteria to thrive. Man transfers bacteria to his wife who becomes pregnant, the baby is born sickly, what more reasons do we need to understand that pants are not the proper garment for either men or women or boys or girls? It's a no brainer! If you want healthy children then become wise men and women and start wearing dresses/tunics. Air is the best defense against bacteria and dresses and skirts provide the proper protection for men and women and boys and girls. Forget about what society thinks, society is wrong! Society is lost! Get smart and wear dresses and skirts! Regain your health!


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

If at age 2.5 he asked, I'd let him wear it. I figure, he's too young to notice if other people ridicule him.

If at age 5 he asked, I'd let him wear it. Because I KNOW that when he makes that choice he has given it a lot of thought and is ready for the backlash from other people who may have a different view.

Would I be nervous? Yes. But ultimately, I think giving him the freedom to make his own choices has a greater chance of empowering him rather than diminishing him (from the ridicule he may get from others).

We had a situation several months back when he wore a pink shirt in support of breast cancer awareness. Apparently, a few of his male classmates teased him about it. I learned about this months later as he didn't tell me immediately. I discussed with him fact vs opinion. I told him that while his classmates are welcome to have an opinion (that only girls wear pink), he also has every right to form an opinion that may be the same or may be different. He asked to wear his pink shirt that day.

So yes, if he tells me tomorrow that he wants to wear a skirt, I will gladly take him to the store to pick a skirt out.


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## Mittsy (Dec 29, 2009)

DS wore dresses and skirts for the vast majority of last summer. He had long hair too. And, he pulls off pastel colors much better than his sister....


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

A great blog:

www.raisingmyrainbow.com


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## kohlby (Dec 5, 2005)

Not outside of the house/yard with the exception of dress-up occassions like Halloween until he's old enough to deal with others comments about it. My youngest will throw a tantrum if someone calls him a girl - so I will not let him wear a dress out of the house - except on Halloween. He actually hasn't asked to wear a dress out of the house except on Halloween so it was no big deal. It wasn't about the dress really, it was about the black and pink witch costume. But he didn't like the hat. So he was basically a boy in a dress. He's almost 3. When being called a girl doesn't lead to a tantrum that I have to deal with, then I'll consider it. He does get his nails painted, but no one ever mistaked him for a girl based on his nails.


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## fiddlefern (Nov 9, 2003)

I sure would!


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## MrsSlocombe (Oct 30, 2011)

Yes, because breaking free of gender stereotypes is a brave and liberating act. More than just being harmless, I see it as a positive thing if it is the boy's own idea.


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## Butterflykate (Aug 2, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 I regret the mistakes I made with one of my lot... She... (now) has ASD, Anxiety, other disabilities including somg undiagnosed... has the mental age of a 7 - 12 year old. and I ignored, did not encourage or allow her to be herself.

Now after being in an independent living program seeing counsellors etc... I see how much happier she is being herself. I wish I didn't ignore and allowed her to be herself early so that I could know her.  I love her to pieces but I just don't know her now like I wish I did. I realize now that the reason I didn't allow her to be herself was my fear of being judged... my single biggest regret in my parenting life.


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## Butterflykate (Aug 2, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrspineau*
> 
> I personally would have a problem with it. I am one of those people who believe that dresses and pink is for girls.


You may wish to read this.... http://mattyangel.com/2009/10/04/childrens-color-identification/ pink for girls is a modern invention


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