# Advice needed for a naughty infant



## oceana (Apr 12, 2004)

My son is 9 months old, we are having some disipline issues.

Glasses grabbing, both my husband and I wear glasses. My son for some crazy reason wants to grab them off our faces. He understands the concept of no. Often just before he makes an attempt he will shake his head no at himself then just do it anyway. It turns into a game for him, but we cannot see without our glasses so not tempting him wont work. Once he grabs them we are also forced to grab them back as the risk of breakage is too high, thus creating a cycle of bad behavior. I need suggestions.

Second my son has discovered spitting, it started out innocent enough as raspberrys but once he discovered the fun in doing raspberries with a mouth full of food life got hard. We have never laughed at this behavior. He does it starting with bite one. We have ended the meal, we have done time out, we have cheered him everytime he swallows, currently we are trying ignoring him unless he is not spitting. His meals have decreased significatly which has caused nights to be much more difficult on me because since he is hungry he wants to nurse all night which I cannot sleep though. A sleepy momma does not make for a patient momma. Help.

thanks inadvance
Oceana


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

First of all, babies aren't "naughty".

Your son isn't doing these things to get you mad, or try to irritate you, or even to push boundaries. He's simply too young. He isn't going to understand time out, or why his meal is being taken away.

I would be cautious in assuming that he understands no. He may be mimicking your head shaking when you say no, though.

The things he is doing sound very age appropriate. My husband and I also wear glasses, and that has been something that both my children like to do from the beginning (dd2 is 4 months and already doing it!). My advice is to try to prevent it before he suceeds. On the occasions that he does get them (I know I wasn't always faster than my dd when she was 9 months







: ), gently take them away, and say, "Not for touching," or something like that.

As far as the spitting goes, I would ignore it completely. I wouldn't cheer for every swallow of food either. Could he be teething?

I wouldn't take food away from a baby that little. If you want to stop the meal when he starts, I would offer what was left after a few minutes, and give him the opportunity to finish his food.

Your little guy isn't trying to be disobedient, he's just being a baby.

Bec


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

Hi Oceana and welcome to GD!

The first thing that I would urge you to do is to check out a book on age appropriate development (I wish I could recommend one, any mamas out there can help with this?). The reason that I'm saying that is because everything that you have mentioned is absolutely age-appropriate and important developmental milestones. I can't give any discipline advice because he is way too young for that.

Grabbing glasses, very appropriate. He is exploring his world and he wants to explore his mommy's face which is the center of his world. Glasses are part of your face, he wants to understand them. You need to be quick in moving your head or try contacts for now if that's an option.

Your son absolutely does not understand the concept of "no". He is imitating you but not understanding you. He is nine months old, he can't understand that.

He is not spitting, per se. When babies begin to develop language skills, they start by blowing raspberries. Again, it's an important developmental milestone which should not be discouraged - this is how he will understand how to form words. Please don't take food away from him at this age, he really is developing right on track and it would hamper his development if he is punished for doing what he needs to do.

And please, try not to think of your precious son's behavior as "naughty". He is really not doing anything to purposely piss you off, he is just being, well, a baby!


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## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

I would love a reference for a good book addressing age-appropriate behavior and discipline. I have no idea when to start "discipline" with my 6-month-old. I grew up in a very abusive home and really just have no sense of what is appropriate and when. The only thing that is a "no" so far is that we have a mirror over the changing area that Isaac has taken to kicking while being changed. We don't want to take the mirror down because he seems to really enjoy looking in it, but it doesn't seem safe for him to kick it. I've tried holding his leg and gently saying "no" but he clearly doesn't get it. I know he's just being active and exploring, not "misbehaving" but I don't think it's safe and I haven't figured out a good solution yet.


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## calgal007 (Nov 20, 2001)

Sorry, but my knee-jerk reaction when I see the words "discipline" and "nine-month old" (indeed, any child under the age of eighteen months) is to become nervous. Very nervous.

Try using the words "re-direct the behavior". That's all you should be doing at that age. You wouldn't think of "disciplining" your newborn for knocking glasses off your face, or spitting food. I realize your baby isn't a newborn but neither is nine-months-old an age where they realize "no" or that spitting food is anything other than exploration.

It sounds to me like you need to build in some break time away from your baby so that you have a clearer head. Hugs, Calgal


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## scorpioqueen (Apr 11, 2004)

I agree with the past posts, I didn't even know you could say naughty and infant in the same sentence







ANyways sounds like normal baby behavior. For the glasses just stry to stop him before if he does gently remove his hand and say don't grab mommy's (or whos ever) glasses then find something he can grab. A 9 month old does NOT have the concept of no hes just learned how to minic you.

The spitting Im assumming hes really getting his teeth? spitting is just his way of checking out what his body can do. Just ingnore it it will stop on it own. Timouts or other punishments for a baby are totaly unnecessary and cruel. They do not have any idea of what your doing.

DK


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## mocha09 (Jul 6, 2003)

I agree with all of the replies to this.

Dd tries to grab my (sun)glasses all the time. She's been doing this since she was about 6 months old. She is exploring. When she goes for them, I set her down, then pick her up again.

As far as the spitting, why not let him spit? I wouldn't ignore him while he is spitting. I'd just ignore the spitting.

Time-outs are not okay for a 9 month old. (Actually, I don't beieve they're okay for a 6 year old either. I believe that there are better alternatives than isolation....)

As far as not getting sleep....kudos on co-sleeping and nursing him when he needs it during the night!!!!! It does make for cranky and tired mamas. Sometimes we just need to lower the bar on what to expect in terms of behavior. Good luck.


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## calgal007 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by oceana_
*We have never laughed at this behavior.
Oceana*
Not even the first time it happened???


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

My DD did the glasses thing at that age, too. It is a brief phase and then they get over it. Same with the rasperries. I was just very careful when holding her with my glasses on, and I could really have cared less about the raspberries. She was over both those activities within a month or so.

Daria: perhaps JMHO but....it's a total waste of time trying to teach "no" to a six month old. It's like trying to teach a pig to sing: a waste of your time, and annoying to the pig. Just keep the mirror out of reach. You're the parent, and if you think it's unsafe then remove it. Your baby simply cannot be expected to take that responsibility upon him/herself.

My DD is now 21 months old. She's only truly grasped the meaning of "No", and had the ability to control herself accordingly, for the last few months.


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## oceana (Apr 12, 2004)

Here is why I am having such a hard time.

If he were a normal 9 month old I wouldnt consider his actions to be naughty. I do use the term naughty instead of bad









He does understand the concept of no. I did not think so for a long time untill a special needs teacher friend of mine interacted with him.

We use baby sign, when he wants to open the cabinet under the sink he will police himself before making the attempt to open it, he will string together the sign for open and shake his head no. Before glasses grabbing he will often tell himself no, sometimes he will not do the grabbing other times he will shake no, then think then nod yes and go for it. I know that these are big concepts for a little guy but each baby is different. He uses his no shake as well as other signs in other ways and new situations to communicate with us not just in the situations we have expierianced so I know he is not mimicking

For the food spitting he smiles thinking about doing it and when he has made a good spray. He will wait with the food in his mouth untill he has a face nearby to spray, I dont think targeting is typical at this age at all. I think he is testing me and bounderies which would be seriously different situation if he were 2. He can go though a cup of food by spitting and not swallow a single bite, and not just veggies. He nurses more often since he is not eating his solids and has not suffered any weight loss, he is a very healthy active child

He started foodness raspberries months ago but they went away to make room for other language experiments. The raspberries have only returned as a meal time event.

I have considered the teething possiblity but this has been going on for a long time he has 4 teeth and no new buds since he started this over a month ago

I have read the Sears disipline book and as it did not touch on my special situation (advanced age behavior) I am posting here.

Please do not worry that I am putting him in the corner when I say time out, I am using the breastfeeding and my baby bit me version, by removing him from the breast, explaining that no he souldnt do what he is doing, then only a few seconds. I promise we dont get into the tears.


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## shayelsmommy (Mar 31, 2004)

I agree with the above posts.

also, keep in mind that just because he "understands no", in the sense that he stops other behaviors when you say no, it doesn't mean he remembers or has the impulse control necessary to keep himself from doing a "no" behavior.

9 months is so so very little. he's a baby, exploring his world, exploring his body. spitting is fun!! ignore it, the novelty will wear off soon.

glasses are shiny and they're right on mom and dad's face, so very exciting! just try to keep him from grabbing in the first place. get a cheap pair of reading glassed from the drug store and give those to him when he's especially persistent.

I also want to echo what others have said and warn you about thinking that an infant can be naughty. naughty implies a child who is making a choice to disobey understood rules when he has the ability to have that kind of self control and make those decisions....not the case with an infant. in fact, I'm not sure I would ever use the term naughty, even with an older child, but definitely not an infant. those thoughts can develop a very adversarial mentality toward your son.

I know these behaviors can get frustrating. try to get time to yourself, break time away from baby so you can regroup and gain perspective. have fun with these behaviors







they're really fun and neat when you step back and think about it.


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## oceana (Apr 12, 2004)

Quote:

_Originally posted by calgal007_
*Not even the first time it happened???







*
Not even, I did say to my husband very calmly that we could not laugh or make a big deal out of what just happened because then it would never stop. My husband excused himself from the table to smile.

Looking back I wish I had at least enjoyed this once


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Just wanted to add my agreement with the previous posters. 9 months old is way too young to even be thinking about anything like discipline. Redirection is really the only appropriate response, IMO.

Ds also went through a phase of grabbing glasses. We would either turn our head, or we sometimes would sit down with him and help him explore them, with our hands on them so they didn't break. Or maybe find an old pair he can play with that you don't care about. When he does get them and you need them back, you can take them back while asking for them nicely, modeling the behavior you would like him to eventually have. Try handing him something else interesting to get him to let go of the glasses. But with no discipline at all, my son grew out of his glasses obsession. It's a totally normal, healthy phase.

And I agree about the spitting thing too. Totally normal developmental phase. Put a mat on the floor, put a bib on him, step back, and let him go. He'll grow out of it. He is experimenting with what his mouth can do, and with cause and effect. It's really important to let him do this exploring.

I don't think that 'no' is appropriate for a baby, as they just don't understand. Pick them up and redirect them, make a funny sound, play peekaboo, hand them another object that they can have, etc. The previous poster is right on when she said that even though baby can have an idea of 'no' at the moment, it is unrealistic to expect that they will remember it, AND have the impulse control to use it.

My idea of 'discipline' at that age, and at this age as well, has been mutual respect. I treat ds how I would like to be treated, and model respect that I would like him to show to others. If you stepped into the wrong line at a movie theatre, would you want someone to yell no at you, or would you want them to nicely explain to you that this is not the right line, and gently help you find the right one. Lame example, but I hope you get my point.


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## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

I can understand where you are coming from, as I have a very precocious child myself and people often don't even believe me when I tell them about the things he does. (He is 18 mos. now.)

I think this is a common pitfall of the child who is "advanced" developmentally, that their caregivers start to overestimate them and think they are capable of things that they are not. What I mean by this is they have a kid who is acting much older than they are, so they start to think of him *as* a two year old, not the 9 month old he really is. Even though he may have an advanced level of understanding, developmentally he is still a baby and is NOT CAPABLE of self control. So even if he understands "no", he will not be able to respond to it the way you want him to for some time to come. He simply lacks the ability to control his own impulses. This is normal and even good, because it allows him to explore and experiment and figure out the world without such pesky things as possible consequences getting in the way, lol.

(((Hugs)))) to you - it is challenging to parent a precocious child! Take a deep breath and cut him and yourself some more slack.


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## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

Thanks for the advice Piglet, I really wasn't sure. I have a friend who is a very gentle AP mama, and she uses "no" with her 12-month-old who seems to understand and respond appropriately (i.e., stops trying to play with the electrical outlet cover). I think we will just remove the mirror for now.









P.S. Sorry oceana for the slight hijack of your thread...as you can see I'm interested in the same issue!


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

The Dr. Sears books are a good place to start. The Discipline Book, I think, is really for a slightly older child. The Baby Book should give you a better idea of what is age appropriate.

I agree with what the others have said. He doesn't have the capability to take responsibility for his actions. If you don't want him doing something, redirection is your best bet for the moment.

I look at disciplining as something I do from day 1. I think of discipline as a learning process. I start by teaching them trust (I always respond to my baby's cry, feed on demand, etc.). This is the foundation of discipline. Then, as they start moving, it moves to baby-proofing. Then, redirecting. Then, redirecting with a verbal cue (not for touching, or let's play with this instead). Eventually (for dd1 around 18 months to 2 years) they start to respond with just the verbal redirection with only the occasional need for a physical reminder (gentle, gentle, gentle with these! Like taking dd by the hand and leading her to a better activity than say scaling the book cases:LOL).

It has only been in the last few months (she turned 3 last month), that we have started having more serious consequences (like taking the balloon away when she is doing dangerous things with it, or leaving the park if she isn't listening. I try to make the consequence as logical as possible. I save time out for serious safety infractions.)

Your baby might be advanced and precocious, but he is still just a baby, and not a toddler. He isn't being naughty. He's exploring, period.

Bec


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by daria_
*I think we will just remove the mirror for now.








*
Daria,

My dd loved the mirror when she was littler (still does, for that matter!)

Maybe you could get another mirror that is baby safe and put it on the floor for your baby to play with? There are a bunch on the market, some with stands and everything. Or you could spend some time holding him up to the mirror before and after diaper changes? I don't think you need to deprive him of the fun of mirrors. But I do agree you should move the mirror he can kick down for now.

Bec


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## shayelsmommy (Mar 31, 2004)

I agree that discipline starts from infancy - IF and only IF one is equating discipline with teaching. If a person is equating discipline with punishing, I don't agree with that. it's a problem with semantics that we as run into when discussing parenting.

You definitely want to discipline in the sense of teaching by saying hot, danger, not for baby, disicpline by manipulating the environment, etc. just because grabbing something out of curiosity is age appopriate and healthy, that doesn't mean that you just "let it go". you teach through your firm but kind words and your gentle and consistent actions.


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by oceana_
*Not even, I did say to my husband very calmly that we could not laugh or make a big deal out of what just happened because then it would never stop. My husband excused himself from the table to smile.

Looking back I wish I had at least enjoyed this once*
You know what? You're going to look back a whole lot and say, "if I only knew then what I know now..." Sit back and enjoy the ride!

I remember the absolute panic I used to feel (and I do mean "panic") when my daughter would do something out of the ordinary and I would assume, "uh oh, now we're going to have to deal with this FOREVER". For example, if she would fall asleep 15 minutes later than usual, or wake up 15 minutes earlier than usual, or ask for french fries, etc. I would immediately think, "I need to end this NOW or else it will go on every day" even though I laugh at myself now for thinking this. Usually, things would just pass as quickly as they came or if they didn't, it wasn't the end of the world.

I can't even advise you not to worry about these kinds of things because I did. The good news is that soon they are doing so many challenging things that these early ones really do seem like a piece of cake. :LOL


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I've got nothing to add here but my support and warm welcome to the gentle discipline forum. It's easier said than done, sometimes and you'll get some great advice from some wonderful mothers here.


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## shayelsmommy (Mar 31, 2004)

lovebeads,

I think that is such a good thing to keep in mind. I'm always asking GD parents of older children "ok, so did your toddler do this? and what did you do? and are they ok now?" LOL.

Like for example when my dd started screaming, I feared that she'd be screaming when she was 10 if I didn't "fix it". or when she had her first meldown and I thought "oh my gosh, I'm going to have a tantrum thrower for the next 4 years"

I'm learning to relax and do what I know is right and trust my child...something that is hard for parents to do I think.


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## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

LoveBeads, that is so true - I used to be like that too, I am a little better now that I am older and wiser, lol.

I like you more with every post I read!


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

Hi Makeesha!

You know how all of those obnoxious parents would look at your adorable newborn and say, "JUST YOU WAIT! IT ONLY GETS HARDER!" and you'd think, "nah, maybe that's true for them but MY CHILD won't be like that."

Guess what?







:

I know that if I'm blessed with another child, I will definitely be much more laid-back which is kinda funny because if you knew me IRL, you'd think that I was pretty much asleep most of the time anyway :LOL . I think that I would parent the same, it's just that my internal "panic" dialogue would definitely disappear.


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by famousmockngbrd_
*LoveBeads, that is so true - I used to be like that too, I am a little better now that I am older and wiser, lol.

I like you more with every post I read!







*








(my Sally Field's moment) You like me! You really like me!

Thanks! That made my day! Truly!


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by LoveBeads_
*you'd think, "nah, maybe that's true for them but MY CHILD won't be like that."

*
:LOL I totally thought that before I had kids! I would be the one thinking "ugh! Can't they control their child? They shouldn't bring them to the store if they are going to cry!", etc.

Then I had kids. I only thank my self control that I never said anything. Now I only have to think my apologies.









It is an adventure! Just enjoy the ride and try not to uke !

Bec


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

LoveBeads: so true! Now I read mamas who are dealing with these issues and I just laugh b/c I had forgotten all about them. They last such a short time, and then they are on to something else. Yet at the time, I tended to panic as well and think "oh my, I need to nip this one in the bud!".

Daria: You should be able to find a child-safe mirror. we had one made of some kind of vinyl, I think.









oceana: I couldn't agree more with others, especially the notion that precocious children tend to get burdened with over-expectations. Your baby is almost certainly mimicking with his head shaking, etc. Anyways, I think the most important point is: just let him be a baby and don't worry about these behaviours b/c guaranteed they'll be a non-issue before you know it, and you'll be back here stressing about the next age-appropriate behaviour!









(welcome to MDC by the way!)


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## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by bec_
*I only thank my self control that I never said anything. Now I only have to think my apologies.*
I can really relate to that, since _shhhh_ I used to think pregnant women were big whiners. Then I had what most people would probably call an "easy" pregnancy and it still kicked my butt. So glad I kept my big mouth shut in the past!

Thanks for the advice about mirrors. We have lots of mirrors all over the house that we hold him up to and talk to him about the mirror baby. This particular mirror is attached to the dresser where we have our changing mat. But it is not hard to remove it for the time being. Maybe I'll tack up some kind of bright poster instead.


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## farmer mama (Mar 9, 2004)

Such great, insightful posts! I agree that just because a baby can understand your language does not mean they can control thier impluses. For early years children, I use redirection and a simple explanation, i.e. "My glasses are not for playing, but here is my necklace, etc." I believe that the key to "discipline" is that you are consistent and at the point when it is developmentally appropriate your baby or child will get it. If they don't get it they are not ready to. My baby went through a period of pulling his big sister's hair and putting it on his head. (She is so sweet she would just yell for me instead of pushing him away.) Each time we just really consistently said, "That is 'owie', use gentle touching.", and showed him how to touch his sister's hair. He eventually got it. For me it is less wanting them to "be good", it is more that they see that we have consistent boundries (you don't do things to hurt others, yourself, or someone's property), and when that boundry is crossed, everytime you will get a age-appropriate, calm and gentle but firm reminder until you are developmentally ready to control those impulses yourself. I like the idea of being authoritative instead of authoritarian, as in "I understand and am confident about how things work in our family and I am happy to help you learn these boundries", instead of "do this because I am the boss around here". Kind of a ramble, but there it is.

Edited because I just wanted to add that babies have these impulses because it is serving some function for their development, they are doing exactly what they need to do. Even with an older child "acting out", especially in that 3-4 year old testing boundries stage, I believe that they are doing things because they are trying to learn how the world works, how people react, how to control themselves, actions have reactions, etc. not to be "naughty". What a great learning experience!


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## christina (Apr 3, 2002)

Someone asked for good book recommendation; how about Positive Discipline?
I love it. In reviewing my books, all of the good ones recommend simply removing the object/child from whatever is dangerous...
but, of course, things like raspberries are just annoying, not dangerous. So, just have to let these little phases pass on their own, as they do.


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## geomom (Nov 26, 2001)

Having precocious language development does not equate to precocious self control. When he starts his no-no before going for your glasses, just say, "That's right mommy needs her glasses to see. Let's play with this toy instead." Babies and young children in general have an internal drive to explore. Redirecting that exploration causes less frustration for both parent and child than expecting the child to simply not explore something without giving another opportunity for exploration.

As for the food spitting, put down a splat mat, give a selection of finger foods, and have bathtime after dinner. At nine months nutrition comes before table manners. And the messy eating will continue to dome degree for another year or more.


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## mocha09 (Jul 6, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by shayelsmommy_
*I agree with the above posts.

also, keep in mind that just because he "understands no", in the sense that he stops other behaviors when you say no, it doesn't mean he remembers or has the impulse control necessary to keep himself from doing a "no" behavior.

*
Well said!!!

ETA: I kind of "forgot" this today when I took dd to class with me today..... thanks for the reminder.


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## Lucysmama (Apr 29, 2003)

The only appropriate discipline action for a 9-month old is redirection, IMO.

If he grabs your glasses, just turn him around in your lap and give him a picture book to look at. If he grabs your hair, put it in a ponytail, and give him something else to pull and tug on. It's up to you as his mama to gently redirect him and distract him!

I do not believe that a 9 month old is "naughty" as in, misbehaving. He is behaving perfectly normal for his age. The food spitting, glasses, etc. All totally normal. Just ignore the food spitting thing...he will grow out of it soon!


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## NoHiddenFees (Mar 15, 2002)

DD was and is very precocious, and I agree that sometimes is hard to gauge exactly how deeply kids like her understand. But step back for a bit and think about how a child sees the world. What does it mean when a child hears "no" or shakes their head, "no"? What does "no" mean? Are they playing an elaborate (for them) rules based _game_ or do they actually understand the parent to be some sort of authority figure who said "no" and must be obeyed, or do they know the action is "wrong" or unacceptable? For a child so young, no matter how bright or precocious, the most likely interpretation is solely the first. At this age I believe it's all about helping them to form or avoid forming habits, and redirection is one of the few effective tools a parent has in doing this.


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

I have kids with a range of abilities and have parented plenty of others. How intelligent or advanced your child is does not affect milestones.

Here's the thing, even though you may feel he understands, he still _needs_ to do these things. He isn't trying to tic yyou off, or test you. He may, possibly, understand the concept of 'no' at some level. But he doesn't have the ability to stop himself all the time. Think about it...if he did, he'd be a grown up!









Raspberries are freaking aggravating, aren't they? If you give him, oh, say, applesauce, and he starts spitting it out, stop. Try giving him something else. Something he can chew a bit. Sorry, as you can see from my signature, it's been awhile. Is he old enough to feed himself Cheerios? I gave my kids raw tofu, but now that's not concidered a good idea, times change, but you could cook it, slice into litttle bits. It's so hard for them to pick up, they concentrate on that. Ignore the raspberries. It may be that more nursing and less 'real' food is a good thing. In a month or so, hell be busy trying to talk, not spit.

Avoid 'no'. Try getting a little pair of kiddie sunglasses. Whenever he grabs yours, give him his. He wants to be like you! He's not just exploring, he's realizing that _he's_ different! You and his dad both wear glasses...where are his?

I would encourage you to do lots of research on advanced kids. They have a lot of problems as they get older, if not stimulated. They also need to go through all the developmental points, like every other kid. It's a balancing act.

Repeat over and over (and believe me, you'll be repeating this for the rest of your life!) "this too, shall pass". Every irritating phase _will_ pass. Eventually! Whenever possible, simplify your life and remove the irritant. (the food that gushes so nicely)

Also, take your glasses off sometimes and let him explore your face with is hands. Encourage him to be gentle. He needs to know that the glasses come off, and that you have eyes, etc. For little ones, nothing is a given!

Welcome! How wonderful that your son has a parent already looking into GD. I didn't find any of this until I was on kid # 3! (The poor first two, forever scarred







)


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## gurumama (Oct 6, 2002)

If he really, really loves glasses, could you get him a pair of sunglasses that fit his face, and then those are *his* glasses?

When he plays with yours, get his for him, and say, "These are your glasses. Mama's glasses--baby's glasses."

That helped with my kids.

Good luck!


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

I can identify with the challenge of a child with advanced understanding at that age. Dds were both the same, and Id' watch friends with their chidlren being 'firm' and setting 'rules' and winning. Ha, mine fully understood what they were doing and enjoyed doing so!

I learned fast taht I had to relax and go with the flow. Just because a toddler understands no, does not mean that he is able to act upon it. It is sometimes harder though wehn they do understand, as your expectation should then be that they follow through. It just doesnt work like that though!

Have you thought of doing foods at different times and not when he has an audience or when you are all sitting down? And maybe not at the table, but in an area where he can cruise around a little. This will depend upon how how relaxed you can be about mess! I didnt do formal mealtimes with my girls for this reason, they had snack trays that they grazed from through the day, and largely still do so now.

Re the nursing all night, I can identify with that one too! I used to give my dds a yoghurt (that I fed to them to stop the messy games!) just before bed to fill them up. It was a ritual built into bedtime, and made a big difference about how often they woke at night. (I did this mainly when pregnant and not able to cope with nursing marathons all night, but I would think it would work in your situation too).

Good luck, Welcome to the boards and to the rollercoaster ride of discipline!


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## caycat (Feb 25, 2004)

Oceana,

I think it is great that you have been so successful teaching baby sign life. It is amazing what you can find out with it!

I haven't posted much but my second ds is at the same phase so it struck a chord.

I just want to agree with the poster who mentioned the need to repear "this too shall pass"--it kept me sane with my first child and now lets me relax more with my second.

Having a very aware child can be challenging. With my children, I focus more on encouraging their creativity (which is what redirection often is) rather than "time-out" discipline when they're little.

Have fun with you baby!

A-Ch
Mama to my spirited 3 1/2 yr old ds and my very aware 8 mth ds.


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## Korwynne (Feb 18, 2004)

Oceanna, I just wanted to offer *hugs*

My 2 1/2 year old is very precocious, always has been.. was talking in full sentances by her first birthday, now is learning to read, etc.

The problem I have is that because she *is* so precocious, I find myself getting really frustrated when she does something age appropriate because I think she's doing something that's beneath her level and too babyish for her....

the reality is, she only is 2 1/2, and there are times she's going to totally *be* 2 1/2... and I'm sure your little baby is the same.. it helps me to step back and say "well, yeah, that's what she's supposed to be doing.. and I'm lucky we don' t have most of the problems most people do at this age"

*hugs*


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by oceana_
*Looking back I wish I had at least enjoyed this once*
Can I very gently suggest that you try to let go of a little control so that you won't have more of these regrets?

As everyone has said - it's age appropriate behavior.

Even if your baby is understanding the concept of "no" (which, advanced or no, I would still suspect that he is imitating), he is MUCH too young to be expected to control his own behavior. It takes children a long while to develop impulse control (my son is 3.5 and is just now starting to get there.... a little bit, anyway).

Repeat this over and over: "Pick your battles." Let it become your mantra.

The things that are absolute no-nos - continue to redirect. He'll get it eventually... it might take a very long time, but he will.

And, beyond that, learn to let things go.

One practical tip: With the spitting - You might think about taking him to the sink or bathtub when he's spitting and making a big, fun game out of it. Though he's still a bit young for the concept, the idea will start to sink in that there's an acceptable place for him to spit and he might be a little more receptive to foregoing the game at the table. Of course, that's also when he's older. Raspberries (even disgusting, food-filled raspberries) are all part of being a baby!

eta: Heck, could have saved myself the trouble by just reading the prior posts! Good advice, mamas. And LoveBeads, you rock as usual.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

...


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I am brand new here and I also have a very bright 9mon old daughter...she has been doing "no" for quite a while...I know she know what it means because she will stop doing what she is doing when I say no and shake her head...for instance we use it when she goes to the fireplace until I can get to her and redirect. I would never trust that she could control the impulse to say no~she's only 9 mos old...but she does know what it means.

As for glasses...I take them off and explore them with her, get a book and look at glasses...basically they want to explore...after a while the know all they need to know about them and move on...they aren't as fascinating any more although occasionally she will pull them off again...when she's old enough I will teach her that is inappropriate...right now she just wants to study and eat them.

As for the raspberries during lunch...well I am a little nuts...I do it back to her...she thinks it's hilarious...so do I . She won't always find it so funny and she is only a baby...I have 2 older girls and I did it with them too....some of my best memories with my kids are the messy ones and that is a mess that is kind of controlled. She will do it in a restaurant and everyone from the other tables laugh at it. Table manners come along eventually...I usually get compliments about my older girls' manners now(10 and 13 years old)

Good luck~enjoy your baby!


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## Sofiamomma (Jan 4, 2002)

Hi! I had nine month olds that understood "no" too! In fact, my older one understood it even younger. She liked to take my glasses off and I would just say "Not for Sophia" and give her something else. She stopped going for them eventually. With Ellie I don't wear my glasses much, mostly contacts. Sometimes she wants my sunglasses so I let her have them for a bit. Once her curiosity is satisfied she leaves them alone. If she is bending them too hard or something I "trade" something else for them!









Neither of them did food filled raspberries. Whew! But they did have other messy mealtime behaviors, of course. With Sophia I tended to either put her in a full bib with sleeves and put her on a splat mat or easily cleaned floor, or else naked. This was generally just before bathtime. Also when I was relaxed and not rushed and let her have at it. Then I cleaned her up and put her to bed and cleaned the meal mess up later. Other times I kept the mess more contained, generally by giving non messy foods, mostly finger foods. She also learned early to feed herself. Dd2 is another story. She has had no desire until yesterday in fact, to feed herself. She has let me spoon feed her or she has had finger food. And that I give her one or two bites at a time so she is not tempted to sweep or throw. She gets less opportunity to "have at it" than her sister did. Poor kid. The perils of being a second child! :LOL

P.S. I have had very good luck with saying "Not for ________" when dealing with electrical outlets, glasses, fireplaces and such. Ellie will actually crawl away (and has since she was about 8 or 9 months) from things when we say no. Not always, but often. She will go play with something else. Or I have to go get her and help her find something else to do.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

I had a kiddo who had some clear understanding of "no" at 10 months (and likely younger....but I remember 10 months because of her reaction to the word at that age....). She pull up and reach for something off limits, I would say "no" and prepare to approach and remove her, and she would throw herself down on her diapered-bum and pound her fists and rage! She was tantuming to the word "no" at 10 months!!!!!!

I'm sure she didn't understand the full meaning....just that "no" was quickly followed by mommy foiling her plans :LOL Classical conditioning, really.


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## Mama J Rock (Apr 2, 2004)

I strongly recommend the book "What Babies Say Before They Can Talk" by Paul Holinger. It is a great book that explains the nine basic emotional signals that babies are born with and what those signals convey. It would perfectly address the situations that you are dealing with. Great book. I can't say it enough.


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