# Smoking weed and breastfeeding????



## dancingbear

I am just wondering, I know mom's who have breastfed and occasionally smoke pot. I have done some research and am confused. It seems that it is transmitted a little and could do harm in third trimester or first 6 months...but for older kids it seem that there are no ill effects. One book cited a study where there were no differences in cogtnitive function, growth or motor function in kids who were exposed. But when I asked an advice nurse at our local hospital she said it was child abuse and causes arrested development, she'd call child protective services and so on? Any opinions?
-Dancingbear


----------



## UlrikeDG

http://www.kellymom.com/meds/marijuana.html

The advice nurse is right that it is considered abuse from a legal/DHS perspective, just as if the mom had allowed the breastfeeding child to "do" the drug through a method other than via breastmilk. The child would likely be removed from the home, and the mother could be jailed. I don't think that's a reasonable risk for a mother to take.


----------



## phathui5

It can also affect your milk supply. One of my friends was exclusively nursing and (i later found) out smoking weed too. Her baby was FTT and put on formula.

Working for WIC, it's unlikely that I would report someone for doing it once in a great while, but if you're doing it on a regular basis, it's no better than letting your child smoke it. Then I would report it.


----------



## dancingbear

What does FTT stand for? I am finding the info useful, it has promotd some dialog with a friend of mine who needs it.
thanks,
dancingbear


----------



## Elphaba

failure to thrive


----------



## UlrikeDG

Failure to thrive. [nt]


----------



## beachrock

In case this is at all helpful, I remember reading somewhere that there is a true clinical reason to AVOID recreational drugs, even pot, while BF, and it's this: newborn and infant liver function is not fully "online" right away, and is therefore not up to the task of processing the drugs from the blood the way an adult liver is.

Also true of regular alcohol consumption.

Not that I don't indulge from time to time...


----------



## babydoll

Although I know better, sometimes I just cannot believe my eyes.

Anyone who would consider smoking weed during pregnancy, lactation, or around their children - period - is extremely selfish - not to mention STUPID!







:

AND I know because my Dad smoked it when I was growing up and I hated it but I was a kid so there was nothing I could do about it.


----------



## xansmama

i'd really like to know how this is different from drinking alcohol (physically), especially since marajuana is demonized by our culture and alcohol is somehow acceptable, even though alcohol has been proven more addictive and harmful. what's wrong with an occasional puff if an occasional glass is ok??
i'd like to know how much is really passed into the mother's milk, and how harmful it really is to the baby or toddler, and if one is worse than the other, especially for the moderate mama who chooses to indulge once in a while.







:


----------



## babydoll

I don't think you should drink while nursing, pregnant, or for that matter while you have a child in your care. I have read that an occasional glass of wine is ok, but I don't still don't indulge. I put my children's health ahead of my own "indulgences."


----------



## babydoll

There are so many things that we can't protect our children from - being picked on at school, sickness, disease, heartbreak - why expose them to something you can protect them from?

Here is some more information:

http://www.kellymom.com/meds/marijuana.htm


----------



## candiland

Has anyone read the research about the Rastafari women studied in Jamaica?
Their babies, exposed to heavy smoke throughout pregnancy and lactation, actually scored higher on the tests the researchers did at both three months and one year








In Jamaica, though, they consider the effects medicinal and spiritual. When children get sick, for example, they don't touch aspirin and pharm. drugs... they make very weak ganja tea for the child to drink. They swear by it.
If it is used to raise ones awareness and/or for meditative purposes, an ocassional toke will not hurt. If someone is using to escape their problems or to "feel good", it's not a good idea, period.
The Kellymom website actually did say it correctly: that heavy use has been shown to effect infants, in that it may make them sleepy or drowsy and can be stored for long periods of time in the infant's system. The only part that seemed to say it wasn't okay in very small amounts, ocassionally, said that it was because it interfered with the mother's care of her child. This is propaganda UNLESS the mother is, as I said before, using it to escape her problems or trying to solve her pyschoses through self-medication.


----------



## Arduinna

I can say that I know a mom on the board that smoked while pregnant, caregivers knew and she didn't have her child taken away and she wasn't reported because she was able to discuss the real literature and studies that have been done or not, not jkust the propaeganda partyline. Maybe she will post and share what she knows? Although maybe not? I don't have the report info in front of me, but my understanding is that the jamaica study showed no negative effects on kids from pot smoking while pregnant. I also know quite a few people that have been investigated by CPS after being reported and none of the kids were taken away in any of the cases. Of course this is in a state that has decriminalized pot, so I can't say what would happen in another state.

As far as I know there isn't any evidence of FTT from pot smoking.


----------



## dancingbear

Oh, that is a pretty clear indication that despite popular counter culture opinion, it isn't safe, even if it is occasional.
thanks.


----------



## dancingbear

I was repling to the prior post about failure to thrive, with my last "yikes" post. The whole issue is so confussing for me. I know many mom's and am part of a subculture of people who feel pot is a medicine and OK in milk. Many of the older kids are so bright and aware conscious beings, and their mom's extended breastfeeding and smoked probably more than occasionally.

There is probably more hysteria around it like it is taboo, because it is decriminalized but still illegal...ugh. I read the Jamaica study too, and another that found no ill effects, yet...I'd guess smoking anything when your still breastfeeding is probably a real bad idea.

Bottom line is that doctors cant make money off pot so it is thought to be bad...hummm

Thanks for the useful info.
dancingbear


----------



## laurata

I was discussing this via IM with my Dh, and he sent me this link. Not directly related to bfing, but thought provoking nonetheless.

http://cgi.kqed.org/topics/news/pers...ana/index.html


----------



## SarahGuinn

My issue with the link you gave laurata is that my reasons for the legalization of marijuana are black and white. The war on drugs, specifically mj, has put away people for outrageous sentences because of madatory sentencing. I won't go any further into my reasons because that's not the point of this thread.

The link you provided asks your opinion and receives it. Then says, "yeah, but!" over and over. I'm mildly insulted by the tone of it but that just because I started my period today. Heh.

Quote:

Bottom line is that doctors cant make money off pot so it is thought to be bad.
This is usually my line in this reoccuring thread topic. Nail meets head.

Quote:

smoking anything when your still breastfeeding is probably a real bad idea.
Also true.

I'm aware of a mother that uses mj as her antidepressant, as she's opposed to personally using ssri's or other mood elevators. I support her nursing her child just as I support my other friend who was prescribed wellbutrin while pregnant and then nursing.

It's about what works for us.


----------



## OhMel

candiland, thank you for presenting the Jamaican study. I have always argued that anything in moderation is OK. Popping Sudafed everyday is going to be detremental to your child, drinking Diet Coke every day will have an effect, marijuana every day will have a detrimental effect. The occasional toke will not.

Our country cannot ascertain the difference between a junkie and occasional recreational use. I don't get how we couldn't have learned from Prohibition. Whenever something is outlawed the demand for it grows and a criminal use capitalized on it. OK, OT but this drives me up the wall.


----------



## SarahGuinn

Also, I'm always disheartened when I hear women either being told or discussing amongst themselves all the nono's while bfing. I believe that my body can filter majority of the badness and that most of the things I've been made scared of are not as bad as I'm told because women are constantly given reasons why bfing is hard and you can't live the life you want while doing so. You may as well feed the baby formula, etc.

It's not as scary as "they" make it out to be.


----------



## OhMel

Sarah,

I totally agree. My sil stopped bf'ing bc she wanted to drink more than one beer. Somehow, the benefits of bf'ing are less than the effect of two beers in our culture. Very sad.


----------



## SarahGuinn

Heh, OhMel! My CNMW told me to have a pint while learning to bf at first to relax and that it stimulated let down. This was during her bfing class.

Funny how the information we have on hand is never the same ANYWHERE. Even here.


----------



## OhMel

T

I know, it just drives me nuts. My MW told me to have a glass of wine when labor started so I could relax and maybe sleep. I have a friend who's OB told her "Never take any herbs" but told her that all other stuff was fine. WTF? Grrr. I'm sure he told her OTC stuff was fine.


----------



## UlrikeDG

The difference between an occasional glass of wine and smoking pot is that pot is illegal and THE STATE COULD TAKE YOUR BABY AWAY. Why would anyone risk that?

Also, regarding the argument that my body can filter out any "bad stuff," my daughter has multiple food allergies. Every time I eat dairy or soy or onions or wheat or corn or rice, she gets sick. It's a different situation, but I firmly believe that I shouldn't put anything into my body that I don't want going into hers!


----------



## SarahGuinn

My son has the similar allergies and I spent over a year on a strict elimination diet. I understand your point. But you're generalizing my idea that we do not trust our bodies as often as we should. At the same time, I uunderstand the level of distrust that comes along with finding out your milk can seem "poisonous" because of glutens, dairy, etc. to your child.

Back to MJ.

Yes, it's is illegal and my point was that it shouldn't be.

It's sad that we have doctors throwing drugs at women who are pregnant and/or nursing that terrify me. But we'll throw that same mother in jail or take away her children for self medicating with pot.

Unfortunately, this thread happens on a cycle here at MDC. There are those that have moral issues with MJ. There are those that support it's legalization. There are those who don't really care.

We're not going to change each others minds.

*Also, everyone should think twice before admitting ANYTHING on this board. Some folks take their moral obligation very seriously. FYI.*


----------



## Arduinna

"Our country cannot ascertain the difference between a junkie and occasional recreational use."

Boy is that the truth. At this point you'd think we did live in prohibition times, since so many people think that inbibing one beer makes someone a bad parent and many people (in general) think that any drinking means your an addict.







:

Anyway, good point Sarah I haven't seen anyone admit anything. And just in case anyone assumed I was speaking about myself when I referenced a poster smoking during pg, I wasn't. I know I was a little cryptic, but I didn't want to out a fellow mom.

In the decriminalized states, use or possesion doesn't even get an arrest. It results in a ticket and a fine. No jail time required. Misdemeaners don't result in the taking away of children. CPS has to prove neglect or abuse, not just smoking pot. I think I posted that before??


----------



## Doodlebugsmom

Like SarahGuinn, I also know a mama who uses pot daily as an anti-depressant. I really don't see how it's worse than prozac, wellbutrin, zoloft, etc. My mama friend is nursing her 3 year old, who is as sharp as a tack and has the verbal skills of an 8 year old. She also smoked during her first pregnancy. She was very young at the time and was sick every day. The pot helped her feel better and had no ill effects on her dd. Dd is now 13 years old and extemely bright. That said, I personally am not comfortable smoking or drinking at all while pg. I have had a drink a couple of times since I've been nursing though.


----------



## Bradysmommy

ok well different things work for different people. Look at it this way some women will drink the whole time they are pg and the baby will be perfectly fine. another women may have one or two drinks and her baby will have FAS. Some women can smoke pot or just smoke cigerates(sp) and it will have no affect on the baby, while another may have smoked a few times and it affects the baby.

Yea your body might filter out all the bad stuff BUT why would you take that chance.

A friend of mine smoked pot and cigerates all while she was pg. Her argument for it was the only thing that will happen is the baby may be underweight. well she had her baby early and had to stay in the hospital for awhile and she's a little behind her peers. Now was it from smoking pot or cigerates or was it just something that was going to happen no matter what she did??? My point is well never know.

BUT if it did affect her baby while she was pg whats to say it wont while she's bf'ing. i just think that you should do everything you can to make sure your baby is as healthy as can be.


----------



## laurata

Quote:

_Originally posted by SarahGuinn_
*My issue with the link you gave laurata is that my reasons for the legalization of marijuana are black and white. The war on drugs, specifically mj, has put away people for outrageous sentences because of madatory sentencing. I won't go any further into my reasons because that's not the point of this thread.

The link you provided asks your opinion and receives it. Then says, "yeah, but!" over and over. I'm mildly insulted by the tone of it but that just because I started my period today. Heh.
*
True. I think it's good for people who can't make up their mind whether the legalization of MJ is good or bad. I'd be curious if states where MJ use is decriminalized have statistics on whether there is much difference in abuse problems, higher rates of use, etc. It seems like moderate use isn't unreasonable and probably fine. Personally I wouldn't risk it.

Interesting debate.


----------



## sunmountain

if you drink every day it WILL affect your baby, no argument there.
if you smoke pot, it will not, and I have yet to see a study that says otherwise.

I am the mom Arduinna was refering to. You will not be arrested for admitting that you smoke pot while pg to a healthcare provider. It was the only thing that kept me out of the hospital, I was unable to eat anything for 3 months at the beginning of ALL of my pgs. Yes, I have have used it to treat depression. It worked in both instances. All of my babies scored 8 or 9 on the APGAR, none were underwieght AT ALL. When I was visited by a pediatrician and a social worker after the birth of my last child in the hospital, I went over all of the literature they gave me with them. I gave them the example of the Rastafarian moms, they agreed with me about all of it. They told me that they consider it "a lifestyle choice" to smoke mj, that as long as we weren't dealing or doing anything really harmful, like coke or crack or heroine then it wasn't an issue, but that it was their job to follow up with mamas who have admitted this to their healthcare providers while pg. Their concern was that I would cross over to other drugs that WERE harmful. They wanted to know my reasons for choosing to do this, and I explained it to them. They wished me well and went on their way. I knew the risks, I am willing to fight for my rights as a mother. I know they won't take my kids away, I have looked into the legalities of it in our city and state, and read many posts by joyberryjoy here on mdc. If you have a question regarding the issue of the kids being taken away, she will answer your questions, her dh is a lawyer (and I think she is one, too, but I could be wrong and she just writes like one.)

edited to add...
they didn't follow up because they can't, legally they have no authority to come into my home and accuse me of something they didn't witness, even if I admitted to doing it in the past. They have more to worry about than ppl like me.

I'm not interested in convincing anyone to agree with me or support me. So all of you nay-sayers can spew your venom at me all you like, I am not hurt by it, I have thought about this issue harder than any of you, you can be sure. I have done more research than any of you about it. I did not make this decision with no information or out of ignorance, and other than saying that, I am not going to go out of my way to defend myself.

I am, however, willing to have an intelligent thoughtful discussion about it and answer questions if you like.


----------



## Momtwice

"women are constantly given reasons why bfing is hard and you can't live the life you want while doing so. You may as well feed the baby formula, etc. ...It's not as scary as "they" make it out to be."said one mom

Another mom replied

"I totally agree. My sil stopped bf'ing bc she wanted to drink more than one beer. Somehow, the benefits of bf'ing are less than the effect of two beers in our culture. Very sad."

It's sad when the culture interferes with bf, yes. But it is also sad when a mom CHOOSES alcohol or drugs over bf. Some moms don't get accurate bf info or suport, while others are immature and selfish. I know a mom who didn't bf at all because she wanted to do party drugs and was tired of abstaining while pg.
uke


----------



## oceanbaby

I am glad to hear that there are some moms here who can wade through the propoganda and talk some sense. Although I do not smoke, pregnant or not (but heck, I didn't even have caffeine or soft cheeses because I am a paranoid freak about that kind of stuff), in my past life as a serious student at UCB I did much research about this topic. (Yes, I do have references, but they are buried in my messy out of control garage and unless pressed I really don't want to go get them.)

First of all, regarding studies that people cite. Who do you think is funding these studies? Please know that the vast majority of these studies are funded by the US government in support of the war on drugs (which is a sham, BTW, but that is for another thread). Other establishments don't usually have the clout to get the results of their studies published - the results that show absolutely no effect whatsoever on babies whose moms smoked while pregnant or nursing. Alcohol, caffeine, and OTC medications, on the other hand, are potentially very harmful.

Regarding having your baby taken away, this again is propoganda. I mean, yes, my baby could be taken away or I could be arrested just if I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time - crazy stuff happens. But this has nothing to do with marijuana. Marijuana laws vary from state to state. In the state that I live in, posession of less than 1 ounce of marijuana (which is quite a bit IMO), is a misdemeanor, not a felony. You won't even be arrested - you will be cited. There is no law regarding ingesting marijuana while nursing or pregnant, just as there is no law against drinking or smoking cigarettes while pregnant. Pregnant women seek drug treatment all the time, usually for very hard drugs, and very few have their children removed. If their children are removed, it's because they were unable to provide any care for them, not because they smoked a joint. Heck, not even because they shot heroin.

Please make responsible decisions, and please please please don't believe everything you read. Question the sources, question their motives, follow the money trail, and then sit back and think about what makes sense to you. Does it really make sense that a natural herb would be more dangerous than alcohol, pills, cigarettes, genetically modified foods, or pollution?


----------



## babydoll

I wish people would realize that many legal and illegal drugs come from herbs. So your argument that herbs are safer is uncredited. Not to mention that herbs can be highly concentrated or very weak and most are not regulated by any sort of place such as the FDA that makes sure that they are even what they say they are. Certain herbs are very very dangerous during nursing and pregnancy. This is not to say just because a drug is regulated by the FDA it is safe (just look at Phen-Fen), but at least there is credible research done on these drugs and if you buy them you know what dosage you are getting.

Another thing...
Street drugs are rarely pure and can contain traces of other drugs or other substances. So unless you are growing it yourself from an uncontaminted seed you don't know that all you are getting is marijuana - and if you are growing it yourself - I would wager a guess that you could get your children taken away.

For the mother who used pot for morning/night sickeness. I don't feel sorry for you. I too could not eat during the first half of my pregnancy. When you choose to be a parent you make sacrifices for your child. I know how miserable morning sickness can be, but frankly that is just tough - there are other options.


----------



## oceanbaby

I absolutely do realize that some herbs are very potent and can be dangerous. But marijuana is not one of them. Not even any of the government funded studies can come up with anything much stronger than it "may cause low birth weight." Even with their wildest stretching of the truth they can't come up with anything even remotely close to the damage that legal and often socially acceptable drugs (caffeine, pain meds, antidepressants, etc.) can do.

I don't think Sunmountain was asking you to feel sorry for her. She took control of her body, and the health of her and her children, and made an informed, educated decision that worked for her. That's pretty much the most we can ask of any mom.

And a lot of those "other options" that you refer to have the potential to be much more harmful than even daily pot smoking. The warning labels on drugs that are readily prescribed or given to pregnant or nursing moms list many more serious conditions than marijuana could ever cause, even if being used in massive quantities. Once during my pregnancy, and 2 different times while exclusively breastfeeding my newborn, I was given prescriptions for drugs that upon ~my~ further research, not my doctor's, revealed stern warnings for use while pregnant or nursing. I chose not to take them all 3 times. If I were to experience serious nausea, I personally would consider marijuana before other drugs because I know that it is a safer alternative.

Edited to add: You are corect about the possibility of tainted street drugs, and of the danger of growing in your home. I would highly recommend that anyone interested in using marijuana find a source that they know they can trust.


----------



## Pallas

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bradysmommy_
*ok well different things work for different people. Look at it this way some women will drink the whole time they are pg and the baby will be perfectly fine. another women may have one or two drinks and her baby will have FAS. Some women can smoke pot or just smoke cigerates(sp) and it will have no affect on the baby, while another may have smoked a few times and it affects the baby.

Yea your body might filter out all the bad stuff BUT why would you take that chance.

A friend of mine smoked pot and cigerates all while she was pg. Her argument for it was the only thing that will happen is the baby may be underweight. well she had her baby early and had to stay in the hospital for awhile and she's a little behind her peers. Now was it from smoking pot or cigerates or was it just something that was going to happen no matter what she did??? My point is well never know.

BUT if it did affect her baby while she was pg whats to say it wont while she's bf'ing. i just think that you should do everything you can to make sure your baby is as healthy as can be.*
I have never heard of anyone having a baby with FAS as a result of one or two drinks.

According to my doc, the cigarettes your friend was smoking were more dangerous to her baby than the mj, and far more likely to cause low birth weight.

Fearmongering just bugs me. Facts are scary enough on their own.


----------



## sunmountain

I'm so glad oceanbaby pointed out that I'm not looking to be pitied. I didn't choose my medicine out of ignorance. I chose to use one that is currently illegal, yes, and I can't argue with anyone who is uneasy with that. I wasn't "driven" to use mj to treat depression and the all day/all night nausea and vomitting, I considered it my best option. The FDA once approved a drug in the 50's and 60's for morning sickness, and it caused very high rates of birth defects! And after taking prozac for a time in college, I wasn't willing to deal with the side effects again, regardless of whether or not this same gov't agency said it was safe during pg.

And yes, "street drugs" are often tainted. Products bought from a reputable seller however, are not.

Sacrifices? Well, you have no idea what kind of sacrafices I have made for my children. Probably more than most. Time spent in the hospital for dehydration was not an option. Or in the Mental Health ward for that matter. I didn't just "do the best I could" I did what I knew was best.

Still, I understand how uncomfortable many ppl with mainstream ideas about this are with the illegality of smoking mj AT ALL. But, a bad law is a bad law, and there's nothing wrong with challenging it esp if it is a law with a foundation in racial prejudice and general ignorance. I weighed my options, and came to the conclusion that I wasn't putting anyone in danger with my choice. yes, really.


----------



## asherah

Sunmountain...
everyone around here that knows you knows you are an incredible mom and an incredible person.

Some people are simply going to stick with their self-righteousness no matter WHAT the evidence says.


----------



## SarahGuinn

I don't have the energy to write everything else I was thinking about. sunmountain, pallas, oceanbaby, thanks for your posts.

I was lying in bed last night thinking that we ask so much of ourselves as mothers, and we ask even more of other women who have children. We make the necessary sacrifices and never are we permitted to think of ourselves.

This is one instance where I err on the side of the adult. The informed, educated on the subject, allowed to seek out the one hitter for relief mother.

Do not misunderstand either. I don't condone doing it in the company of children, talking about it with them until much much older, having them around when purchasing or trading, etc.

It should be legal.


----------



## Doodlebugsmom

Sunmountain,
I totally respect your decision to use marijuana medically while pregnant. The decision you made was educated and you did what was best for you and your family. You are very courageous to share it with us. I would rather use marijuana than any other prescription drug that has the same effects.


----------



## candiland

The ladies I know who use(d) mj have the brightest, most emotionally balanced children I know. Luck? I seriously doubt it. These ladies also lead an amazingly righteous lifestyle... very spiritual, kind, balanced lives where disrespect and judgment are curiously absent. Coincidence?


----------



## MamaSoleil

Sunmountain!
Of course I fully agree with what Asherah said. And I'm enjoying this thread immensly, I was wondering when the debate would start...and when the real facts would come on board.
I studied criminology in University, and one class was solely on drugs and Canada. I agree with the poster who said, question the facts you are reading...who is funding them???
The problem I faced when pg with my first was, what study do I trust? I was desperately seeking an UNBIASED study, for or against. Unfortunately, with MJ being illegal..unbiased studies are difficult to find.
Basically, the Jamaican study showed that it was not the drug, but the lifestyle..those who could afford a healthy diet, and were healthy, had the high scoring babies...and the problem with drug/mj studies/related to pg have been in the past, based on the 'lower' class, where the mothers were not necessarily only smoking mj, nor were they necessarily eating properly.
Weed thru the facts..find the truth..no 'pun' intended!!!









Peace,

Mamasoleil/samson


----------



## Doodlebugsmom

I just can't tell you all how happy I am to see so many reasonable mamas here who know the truth about marijuana and all the studies done.







You mamas RULE! It's nice to be able to talk about things like this and have people offer support on the personal decisions that some mamas make!


----------



## reilly's momma

In her book Childbearing Year, Susun Weed recomends marijuana for stalled labor. Like other herbs, this plant has nutritional and medicinal uses which should not be ignored. And like other herbs, we must weigh the pros and cons individually in order to determine what is best for each of us and our children. One of the things we must consider, and something that I personally believe should not be an issue, is the problem of legality.

Also, I do not consider smoking anything around a child to be benign for anyone. For those who do partake, my only suggestion would be to take it in an ingestible form, such as tea, tincture, or, of course, brownies.


----------



## Pallas

My only concern would be that the brownies would be very tempting to littles, if you have any in the house.

I was told (when pg with debilitating nausea) that my hcp was more concerned with the method of ingestion being harmful -- that is, the customary "suck and hold" toking was more dangerous than the thc itself. She recommended tincture/tea/brownies as well.

Incidentally, I never did try it, though I know quite a few who swear by it for morning sickness. It was my first pregnancy, so (unlike this time) I had the luxury of being ill! Had I been equally sick this time around (I wasn't) I probably would have had to, in order to function well enough to care for my older kid. I also kept a close eye on my weight, and had that dropped to a dangerous level I'd have tried it, as well. Fortunately the Hub makes fabulous protien shakes!

I'd certainly be more comfortable with mj as an anti-nausea medication than a pharmaceutical. Yeah, I'm sure Thalidomide will never happen again. Whatever.


----------



## Doodlebugsmom

Quote:

My only concern would be that the brownies would be very tempting to littles, if you have any in the house.
That is very true! It reminds me of when I was six years old and I went with my dad for the weekend to visit his best friend. They had these wonderful looking brownies that I wasn't allowed to eat. My dad told me they were "adult brownies". I actually had no problem with it at the time and didn't really think anything of it. Now, looking back, I think it's just crazy that they didn't have a kid version made for me!







I was supposed to sit around watching all of them eat these delicious brownies and smile and laugh all night, but I couldn't have any? Not fair!


----------



## candiland

Quote:

I was supposed to sit around watching all of them eat these delicious brownies and smile and laugh all night, but I couldn't have any? Not fair!


----------



## dancingbear

I am relieved and glad to see some like minded women out there.

The vaccines our doctors are giving the babes are WAY more Dangerous then pot....DUH and UGH!

and I was also told some SRI's were safe while bf, later to find out it is questionable.

Sunmountian thank you for your honesty and integrity, I am grateful for your insights and willingness to put it out on the line.

dancingbear


----------



## beachrock

Um, can I just say that when I said "indulge" way back there, I was referring to beer, which even the LLL book says is ok once in a while.

Also I do think there's a difference between drinking/smoking when your babe is a newborn & completely dependent on you for food, and doing so when your child is older & gets most of h/h daily calories from another source.

Part of the problem here is that alcohol & pot in bm have not been studied side by side.


----------



## sunmountain

Why do you think they should be studied side by side? How do you think that would affect the results?


----------



## Wildcrafter

Let's not forget that mj is a plant, an herb, that in many places is grown outdoors organically and for personal use. Ask yourself what's in an advil or that pepto bismol, in your salad dressing or ground beef. How many ingredients are you ingesting that are not even food? What ARE THEY?

MJ is an herb with distinguishable qualities, such as causing mental stimulation. You may agree that a highly stimulated baby, as most are, would not benefit from this, even as little as is passed on through breastamilk. It definitely should not be illegal as it can be helpful during pms, stress relief (short term) and migraines. It is a strong plant, as many are, and is not meant to be used all day long every day but I don't see the harm in occasional use.

The point of illegal use and losing your baby if caught is a biggie. Although I don't see a good reason for it being illegal, I also don't see any good reason to risk losing my babe.

Anybody have more info on specific laws?

MTG


----------



## beachrock

Sunmountain,
I don't think it would affect the results, I think it would clarify the relative safety of pot vs. alcohol. I think there is a cultural bias toward believing that that the legal substance is the safe one, and the illegal one is not only not safe, but extremely harmful.

Woefully, the poster who pointed out that the funding of studies has slanted the results was so right. Studies are useless if they bolster political & economic interests instead of medicine & safety.

BTW, are we still talking about bf? it seems as if most of these posts refer to pg. I think the level of concern (at least MY level of concern) is higher regarding pg than bf, especially ebf, as I said earlier. The mother of a toddler can choose to wait to bf if she's concerned about any harmful effect of her milk. One mom I know used to routinely drink in the evenings and give her babe formula. She said she felt deprived when her dh drank & she couldn't. Wonder how her ds felt?


----------



## Bradysmommy

Ok i was wondering if a women decides to smoke pot or eat something with pot in it for morning sickness while she is pg. whats the reason to keep smoking it AFTER the baby is born. If it's for depression or "just for fun", i don't see a reason to keep doing it.


----------



## sunmountain

Thanks DeirdreAlison for clarifying that, I totally agree with you.

bradysmommy, I guess you could ask the same question of anyone who eats chocolate or drinks coffee or tea or has a drink with dinner. Or for that matter, why would someone stop taking prozac after the baby is born if they still need it? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm serious.
It *is* a medicine, but one with many many uses.


----------



## Doodlebugsmom

Quote:

bradysmommy, I guess you could ask the same question of anyone who eats chocolate or drinks coffee or tea or has a drink with dinner. Or for that matter, why would someone stop taking prozac after the baby is born if they still need it? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm serious.
Sunmountain, EXACTLY! I couldn't agree more.


----------



## jazminflower

sorry-double post...


----------



## jazminflower

while visiting friends recently, i told them about the jamacia study. a father of 2 bf dds said " of course the babies are smarter--mama smokes pot, baby drinks milk, baby gets munchies, then baby wants more milk!- the milk makes their minds grow!!"








i nearly fell off my chair i was laughing so hard!!








thought i'd break up the debate with some humor


----------



## tiffani

Seeing as how it is so difficult to find unbiased studies, let alone unbiased studies on BF and pot (neither one makes any $ for anyone willing to spend $ on research) we'll probably never know if smoking pot during BF is harmful, neutral or even beneficial (wouldn't that be great!!).
I've done a lot of BFing in my day, and researched it quite a bit too, and what I've learned about alcohol and BFing is that it takes roughly a six-pack a day for a week for enough alcohol to get into your milk to affect your baby, and that was a conservative estimate. I'd be more concerned about a mother's ability to care for her baby safely after consuming so much alcohol than the effect of the milk itself.
I would personally be concerned about smoking pot while PG just because of the fact that anytime you smoke anything you deprive your baby of oxygen (hence the tea/tincture/edible suggestion), but usually when you smoke pot a little goes a long way, so it's not too much of an issue. I also wouldn't smoke in front of my kids, but that's just me--It also bothers me when people talk excessively about booze, as in, "boy, we need some beer" or, "What you need is a drink" in front of them.
I have quite a bit of faith in the breast--it does a great job of filtering out impurities and harmful substances, and *probably* lets through "food substances" more readily, which is IMO why dairy may get through, causing allergies, but you can drink quite a bit of alcohol before enough will get through to affect your child.
All I know for sure is that after four years of nursing, (two years tandem) and (mostly) patiently caring for my kids all day, every day, cocktail hour with friends or the occasional pot induced giggle-fest does WONDERS for my own sense of self, which can get totally lost in the constant demands of my two beautiful, brilliant, BF'ing children. We do need to keep our children's needs first, but can't forget to let our hair down!


----------



## gaffa

No offense intended to babydoll, but I'm pretty sure by your posts you have never smoked pot, or tried it a couple of times and decided you didn't like . I fully admit I could be way off base.

The loudest protests always seem to come from the folks who have no idea what its really all about. I know a lot of people who have had an occasional toke while pregnant and breastfeeding. It's as reasonable as drinking a couple of beers while nursing. I'm offended by the notion that it's putting your child in danger. Neither of those things is putting your child in danger at all. Using reasonable amounts of these substances is quite beign and healthful for the mental well-being of the mom.

Maybe you don't ever need any of these things, but SOME people do. There has be no conclusive evidence that MJ harms babies, and innumerable women who use MJ while nursing. I would think if there was a problem it would have shown up by now. And as for the woman who smoked cigs and MJ thoughout pregnancy, THAT's completely differetn. That's CHRONICALLY depriving your baby of oxygen and pumping tons of hemicals into your bloodstream ALL DAY This does NOT happen with a couple of puffs, even a daily couple of puffs.

This is not the case with stimulants and downers etc. MJ is TOTALLY different than those things. Those things alter babies heartrates ec. Nursing while doing those things can Kill your child, and if it doesnt't I still assume cause harm.

I totally can not support smoking all day every day while you have a child, but occasional, responsible use is nothing to worry about when all is said and done and all the studies are reviewed.


----------



## sunmountain

mj dilates blood vessels, it does not contract them like tabacco smoke does. so actually, the baby is getting more oxygen while it's in the blood system, not less.


----------



## tiffani

mj dilates blood vessels, it does not contract them like tabacco smoke does. so actually, the baby is getting more oxygen while it's in the blood system, not less.

Thanks for the info sunmountain-- always nice to have the facts!


----------



## Ryoko

I am new to this community but I just wanted to thank all of you for having such a wonderful, mature and informative discussion about this, and for opening up with personal stories. I feel like I can really relate to alot of you, and I feel alot better about myself too. Great thread.


----------



## vatechmom

tiffani - GREAT POST! Thanks for sharing. I, too am very happy to see that this discussion is going so well - and so informative!







:


----------



## polka hop

Thank you for bumping this thread up! I missed it the first time around, and it's a fascinating discussion.


----------



## sunmountain

speaking of funding...
did you know the Jamaican study was funded and run by the March of Dimes?

not sure if the link was provided, but here it is...
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/...can-babies.htm

there's plenty of links to follow on the bottom of that page as well, if you are interested.

and wow...I forgot about this thread! I'm so glad we have that subscribe option lol!


----------



## sunmountain

I found this paragraph most interesting... (edited so so I could adhere to the "Law of 100 words quoted" here)

*...the neonates of mothers who used marijuana showed better physiological stability at 1 month and required less examiner facilitation to reach an organized state and become available for social stimulation... The heavily exposed neonates were more socially responsive and were more autonomically stable at 30 days than their matched counterparts. The quality of their alertness was higher; their motor and autonomic systems were more robust; they were less irritable; they were less likely to demonstrate any imbalance of tone; they needed less examiner facilitation to become organized; they had better self-regulation; and were judged to be more rewarding for caregivers than the neonates of nonusing mothers at 1 month of age.*


----------



## Skim

Mamas, thank you so much for such an informative thread.

I tell you, I have suspected the relative safety of marijuana use while pg or bf. When thoroughly considering this issue in the past, without knowing about the jamaican moms study, I wondered about those mamas and their babes. I thought, surely THEY do it, and their babies are OK; it must not be the demon everyone else seems to think.

And sure enough, I come here and see there was a study of those same moms. I love the surprising things that appear here on MDC.

Ibuprofen, on the other hand...


----------



## NorCal Mama

: for now...


----------



## wasabi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SarahGuinn*
Also, I'm always disheartened when I hear women either being told or discussing amongst themselves all the nono's while bfing. I believe that my body can filter majority of the badness and that most of the things I've been made scared of are not as bad as I'm told because women are constantly given reasons why bfing is hard and you can't live the life you want while doing so. You may as well feed the baby formula, etc.

It's not as scary as "they" make it out to be.

Yes ITA! I always try to emphasize that a BFing mother can basically eat or drink anything she normally would _in moderation_.


----------



## carolynrosa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dancingbear*
I am just wondering, I know mom's who have breastfed and occasionally smoke pot. I have done some research and am confused. It seems that it is transmitted a little and could do harm in third trimester or first 6 months...but for older kids it seem that there are no ill effects. One book cited a study where there were no differences in cogtnitive function, growth or motor function in kids who were exposed. But when I asked an advice nurse at our local hospital she said it was child abuse and causes arrested development, she'd call child protective services and so on? Any opinions?
-Dancingbear


I have known many normal, sane people who smoke weed occassionally, while pregnant and while BF. There is a stigma, and I wouldn't tell anyone about it, but I don't think there's any harm done.
For heaven's sake, my ob prescribed my Vicodin for headaches the other day. To me, that is a much more serious drug that a bit of weed. Smoking pot is a bad a smoking anything else- the smoke ain't that great, and some other chemicals may not be healthy. So limit yourself.
I have done the research as well on weed, and it's fine as long as it is in moderation and your child is always in good care. Common sense, and all that.
Anyway, hope that helps.


----------



## wannabe

Personally, I would be concerned because THC is stored in fat, and takes a LONG time, like months, to get out of your system. Hence any exposure, even if we don't know of any ill effects, is going to be long term.

There also may be issues with inhalation of smoke that sticks to the mother's clothes, if it's being smoked.


----------



## Sherra

Purposes of my post, I have not read all the posts here so if you think I'm speaking to you, not so







. This is just my general feeling on the subject whenever it comes up.

People can quote whatever studies they wish. One thing I do know is several people I have been friends with in my life..who did pot quite a bit, could not think very fluently and they told me they wished they had not. They had a hard time completing thoughts and having a fluent conversation. I do know one person who did pot also quite a bit that is ok in the thinking and conversation department. So no one can tell me it is ok in everyone because I know different.

My question would be..why? Why risk it? Makes no sense to me. I figure I didn't go through the pain of childbirth to risk harming her what I could control. I am thankful neither of my parents smoked anything when I was born. They smoked prior to my birth but decided that they wanted to make a home that was void of that stuff. This was before the huge push to stop smoking too. They just logically knew it was not safe - they didn't need a study to back them up.

Sherra


----------



## catnip

I've never used marajuana, but I am totally pro-legalization. I think it is a powerful and sacred medicinal plant and thank the Goddess that I have never been sick or hurt enough to need it.
Just a quick aside on the forms of ingestion. My father died an ugly and painful death from bone cancer. One of the drugs that he considered for relief was pot. We did alot of research on ways to administer it, and talked to several individuals who used it medicinally. Those I spoke to agreed that the best means of administration were inhalation. INgested, you have less control over the dose. When smoking, it takes effect quickly and you can decide if you need more, administered orally, you have to wait longer for it to take effect, and have less of a fine control over the dose.
HE decided not to try it. I am very sad that the legality of use kept him from trying something that might have eased that horrible pain.


----------



## Sherra

To me, it's a different scenerio when medical use enters in as opposed to wondering if it is affecting baby in the breastmilk using it for recreational.

Sherra


----------



## darkstar

sunmountain...I could not have said it better.







. You are a master of knowledge.

Also no one has stated that our own Mothering Magazine had a front page about mj and pregnancy.

Sure doesnt cause low birth weight, as mine were 9.5 and 10.5 pounds at birth.









darkstar


----------



## CRISSY

From what I understand and have read there is no substantial effects to the unborn or through the bf. I think its through your own beliefs, standards ,and morals wether you should do it or not.(personally I choose not to morally) But I do know a couple of moms that do and have done while pregnant and bf. I don't see any effects on there children. It makes me angry though to see how alcohol and smoking cigarettes is ok. When there is substantial evidence of harmful effects in doing so while pregnant ,or bf to the unborn or child Let alone the harmful effects to you that have been proven from doing such (legal drugs). Its a shame that our society feels it's ok to do one and not the other. It all comes down to politics.
(I also want to add my father is real sick with cancer and is dealing with kemo. In the past six mths he has lost 29 lbs,they have put him on nomorous drugs to pull up his appitite (nothing is working) I know if ct. allowed medical pot he would be on it. (politics)


----------



## gratefulbambina

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CRISSY*
(I also want to add my father is real sick with cancer and is dealing with kemo. In the past six mths he has lost 29 lbs,they have put him on nomorous drugs to pull up his appitite (nothing is working) I know if ct. allowed medical pot he would be on it. (politics)


I would get him street marijuana


----------



## ruby slippers

It would be great if our bodies could filter out "bad stuff" to protect our babies, but unfortunately not. Not smoking anything during pregnancy and breastfeeding is wise. It is not such a long time (pregnancy and lactation) and then one can go back to their usual lifestyle if that is desired. I think if you went to a regular MD and he/she said "I advise you smoke some pot tonight as you breastfeed your baby - he's the studies to prove it is okay' there'd be on outcry.


----------



## becca011906

Ok haven't read this whole thread at all, but i just don't understand why you would buy pot off the street or where ever you get i from... if you grow it then yeah you know it's prolly not got anything eles in it, but if you don't and are buying it from this person, who got it from this person who once put some other drug into it then why would you even chance it!!! It is ILLEGAL so why would you do it? the point is it hasn't been that well studied at all and most of the med on the market have been... I'm not saying i'm a saint and never done this before b/c i'd be lying, but i just don't think it's worth the risk of losing my kids/husband/family b/c of some dumb thing b/c yeah all it takes is one time for you to be arrested for someting and your family is gone, if you make one mistake and the pot is laced with something you would be indangering yourself and you child (if they around you or if you are BF them). I just don't get why you would do something illegal just b/c you don't thik it should be illieagl. that's not your call... and you could get caught.


----------



## Kristine

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babydoll*
I don't think you should drink while nursing, pregnant, or for that matter while you have a child in your care. I have read that an occasional glass of wine is ok, but I don't still don't indulge. I put my children's health ahead of my own "indulgences."

Very well said!

Anybody who chooses to take drugs of any kind while pregnant or nursing is a horribly selfish person. I don't care what the excuse for taking it happens to be, it is WRONG. You can try to justify it any way you want, but it still doesn't change the facts. If you are knowingly transmitting chemicals to a child who has no say in the matter, you don't deserve to keep your child.

Regarding the supposed Rastafarian study -- I would be highly curious to see just how rigorous this study was, how the study was done, who did the study and what their credentials were, what the scope of it was, how many people were tested, what exactly the data was compared with, etc. It sounds more than a little flawed to me if the results came back the way that they did. I'm sure everybody knows how results can be skewed to be in a person (or society's) favour. Remember, cigarettes didn't used to cause cancer.


----------



## lincolnsmom

I'd quickly like to suggest a book, Women and Cannabis, which is a great resource for pg women or bfing mothers. In fact, there is also info for those struggling with infertility. I found the studies in it very useful, and I especially enjoyed the essay about the historical uses specific to women's health. Sorry I'm not more specific, nak.


----------



## Kristine

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sherra*
To me, it's a different scenerio when medical use enters in as opposed to wondering if it is affecting baby in the breastmilk using it for recreational.

Sherra

Thank you.

This is a very important point. If women choose to get high, fine. However, how difficult is it to at least wait until you have given birth and are through nursing your child? Is it REALLY that difficult to just wait a few years? If it is, I would say that you have some problems.

I too think that marijuana should be legalized. I also believe that if somebody is dying or extremely ill they should have legal access to it. I believe that if people choose to get high rather than drink a glass of wine, so be it. What I DO object to are people who choose to damage other people's bodies while using whatever the drug of their choice happens to be. Especially a baby, who has no say in the matter whatsoever.

People who like to take drugs will probably ignore what I have just said about hurting their babies. I'm fairly certain that a myriad of excuses will be offered up, such as morning sickness and all the rest. But do you know what? Most women suffer from these afflictions and are able to overcome them without harming their child in the process. This is what being a mother is all about. Putting your child's needs ahead of your own at all times.

If you cannot wait until you are done giving birth or nursing your child to get high, you have some serious issues. And having known plenty of pot smokers throughout the years, I can say with the utmost sincerity that of all the people I have ever known, they spend more time than anybody else trying to think of excuses for their actions.

Some of the people posting on here make Courtney Love -- who I've spent a long, long time talking with -- seem like a role-model mother. And in comparison, she is.


----------



## cottonwood

Don't you all just _love_ drive-by posters -- those who aren't interested in actually entering the discussion or learning something (because of course they know it all already) but still wish to give us their opinion? I tell you, it is the highlight of my day to come here looking for some intelligent new thoughts and insights, only to have to read yet again, "I didn't read the rest of the thread but just wanted to say that smoking MJ is stupid." So much fun! So edifying! Thanks guys!


----------



## Sweetiemommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe*
Personally, I would be concerned because THC is stored in fat, and takes a LONG time, like months, to get out of your system. Hence any exposure, even if we don't know of any ill effects, is going to be long term.

As far as long term effects, I think there are a good number of twenty somethings out there whose hippie moms can provide evidence of positive effects!

Also, it does not take months to get out of your system. It takes about 2-3 weeks for regular users and even less for occasional use.


----------



## Kristine

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourlittlebirds*
Don't you all just _love_ drive-by posters -- those who aren't interested in actually entering the discussion or learning something (because of course they know it all already) but still wish to give us their opinion? I tell you, it is the highlight of my day to come here looking for some intelligent new thoughts and insights, only to have to read yet again, "I didn't read the rest of the thread but just wanted to say that smoking MJ is stupid." So much fun! So edifying! Thanks guys!

Yes, you are correct. I do know it all already.

It is the highlight of my day as well to read of the many women who will go to whatever lengths necessary to engage in the vice of their choice. Even if that means harming their child in the process.

To all of the posters who think it is fine to get high while pregnant or nursing, I implore you: please, come back in 18 more years and post the results of your highly scientific experiments. I'll be anxious to hear how your children have turned out.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

By the way, just because society frowns upon marijuana use, that shouldn't enter into the equation of why you take it when pregnant or nursing. Regardless of how society views it, it still is harmful. Especially to a child. So any arguments about the unjustness of society in relation to taking it are illogical. It would be like me believing that the sun revolves around the earth and being mad at society for saying that the earth travels around the sun instead. My feelings of anger at society still wouldn't change the fact that the earth does in fact revolve around the sun.

Logic, people. Logic.


----------



## Earth Angel

HI!!









Just wanted to say that, if anyone wants to discuss Marijuana and Hemp, and their benefits and the benefits of legalization, there is a nice little thread in finding your tribe. But please remember, it is not a thread where we are debating anything, we are a pro legalization group of mammas and pappas who are not interested in debating our viewpoints, just wanting a safe and supportive place to discuss our support for the legalization of marijuanna and hemp (there are enough places on this forum for the debate of this subject....like this thread







).

So.....if any of you pro legalization mammas and pappas on this thread want to come and share we'd love to have ya!!


----------



## Earth Angel

Quote:

If you cannot wait until you are done giving birth or nursing your child to get high, you have some serious issues. And having known plenty of pot smokers throughout the years, I can say with the utmost sincerity that of all the people I have ever known, they spend more time than anybody else trying to think of excuses for their actions.

Some of the people posting on here make Courtney Love -- who I've spent a long, long time talking with -- seem like a role-model mother. And in comparison, she is.

OK, lets be nice here and not get into the whole name calling/desparaging remarks situation that always throws threads like these into a downward spiral.

From what i've read, ms love is a drug addict, as in addicted to heroin and/or other hard drugs. Equating her with the mothers here who have acknowledged their use of marijuana is very disrespectful

And I'm, not sure of the marijuana users you know but most folks that use the herb believe in its benefits and feel no reason to justify their choices or make excuses for themselves unless challenged by someone else or if they are simply trying to get the word out of the documented benefits of this medicine.


----------



## mthomas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kristine*
To all of the posters who think it is fine to get high while pregnant or nursing, I implore you: please, come back in 18 more years and post the results of your highly scientific experiments. I'll be anxious to hear how your children have turned out.

.

I wouldnt be so quick to imply that a person's child is going to turn out bad due to mj use or anything else for that matter. Many a ppl have led "socially upstanding" lives and have had tumultuous years w/thier children. I'd watch what you say, life has a way of coming back on you. By all means, express your opinion, you have every right to add your insights. Just scale back the snarkiness, k?


----------



## cottonwood

Kristine wrote: _Anybody who chooses to take drugs of any kind while pregnant or nursing is a horribly selfish person. I don't care what the excuse for taking it happens to be, it is WRONG. You can try to justify it any way you want, but it still doesn't change the facts. If you are knowingly transmitting chemicals to a child who has no say in the matter, you don't deserve to keep your child._

You know what, you are so absolutely right. I just cannot believe the irresponsibility of this woman I know -- well, she used to be a "friend" but I really don't think I can be friends with her after what she's done -- she takes Tylenol for headaches and _even gives it to her baby sometimes._ And the other day she admitted to me that she had novocaine while having her root canal done. I am just shaking with outrage as I write this, it is so awful.

I know also that she gives her baby sips of fluoridated water sometimes, heck, she drinks gallons of it everyday herself, some must be getting through the breastmilk -- not to mention the half a glass of wine I know she occassionally consumes. I don't think there are any studies that show damage to breastfed babies from the mothers consuming small amounts of alcohol, but we all know studies can be twisted any way we want to, there is never any valid information in them anyway.

To her credit, she does buy some organic food, but not all, because -- get this -- she thinks they can't afford it. And she knows very well that non-organic food is filled with pesticides. I also asked her about their beds, she says they're just run-of-the-mill Beauty Rest or something, well you know they're filled with chemicals too, and she and her husband are so selfish they won't sacrifice and spend just a couple of months' paychecks to buy all natural and organic mattresses. I know they're poor, but damn, if they couldn't afford not to poison their children, they shouldn't have had any.

And here's probably the worst thing -- they _drive a car_. I tried to tell her about all the chemicals that get into her baby every time she starts up the engine, and she did say that she wasn't happy about it, but she still continues to drive anyway. I guess her convenience is more important to her than her baby's health.

Personally, I think her baby would be better off in a foster home. At least there I'm sure the baby would never be given Tylenol, that she'd be fed only organic food, that she'd breathe only filtered air and drink filtered water, and that she'd be given formula, the purity of which no mother's breastmilk can match. And I know only the best people are chosen to be foster parents, not selfish people like this woman.

Anybody know the number to social services?


----------



## ruby slippers

Thanks for this thread, it is very interesting. I just don't understand how you can be avoiding chemicals during pregnancy and birth, researching vaccines and their potential effects, etc yet feel like it is acceptable to smoke pot when breastfeeding??? It simply doesn't make sense, can someone explain that to me? I would imagine there aren't many studies on the effects of pot on breastfed babies as attempting to get a few thousand mothers of breastfeeding infants to be recruited would be difficult....


----------



## cottonwood

_"To all of the posters who think it is fine to get high while pregnant or nursing, I implore you: please, come back in 18 more years and post the results of your highly scientific experiments. I'll be anxious to hear how your children have turned out."_

I want to point out that ingesting marijuana does not necessarily mean "getting high" any more than ingesting alcohol necessarily means "getting drunk".

As for adults whose mothers smoked while they were pregnant or nursing, I do know some, and I could tell you quite a bit about them. But somehow I doubt you'd consider my observations valid if they conflicted with your assumptions about the dangers of MJ. Because you're sure of its absolute danger, and you _do_ know it all, so what's the point?

So I'm curious. Do you have children? Did you happen to use a computer while pregnant or nursing? Do you still use one in their presence? Because if so, you did and are exposing them to chemicals. Since you do know everything, I'm sure you've already made plans to throw your computer in the trash, and we won't be hearing anymore from you on the subject!


----------



## cottonwood

_"Anybody who chooses to take drugs of any kind while pregnant or nursing is a horribly selfish person. I don't care what the excuse for taking it happens to be, it is WRONG. You can try to justify it any way you want, but it still doesn't change the facts. If you are knowingly transmitting chemicals to a child who has no say in the matter, you don't deserve to keep your child."_

I just think this bears repeating, and you might want to post it in the "Birth and Beyond" forum as well. All kinds of drug-takers there.


----------



## Kristine

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourlittlebirds*
[/i]

You know what, you are so absolutely right. I just cannot believe the irresponsibility of this woman I know -- well, she used to be a "friend" but I really don't think I can be friends with her after what she's done -- she takes Tylenol for headaches and _even gives it to her baby sometimes._ And the other day she admitted to me that she had novocaine while having her root canal done. I am just shaking with outrage as I write this, it is so awful.

I know also that she gives her baby sips of fluoridated water sometimes, heck, she drinks gallons of it everyday herself, some must be getting through the breastmilk -- not to mention the half a glass of wine I know she occassionally consumes. I don't think there are any studies that show damage to breastfed babies from the mothers consuming small amounts of alcohol, but we all know studies can be twisted any way we want to, there is never any valid information in them anyway.

To her credit, she does buy some organic food, but not all, because -- get this -- she thinks they can't afford it. And she knows very well that non-organic food is filled with pesticides. I also asked her about their beds, she says they're just run-of-the-mill Beauty Rest or something, well you know they're filled with chemicals too, and she and her husband are so selfish they won't sacrifice and spend just a couple of months' paychecks to buy all natural and organic mattresses. I know they're poor, but damn, if they couldn't afford not to poison their children, they shouldn't have had any.

And here's probably the worst thing -- they _drive a car_. I tried to tell her about all the chemicals that get into her baby every time she starts up the engine, and she did say that she wasn't happy about it, but she still continues to drive anyway. I guess her convenience is more important to her than her baby's health.

Personally, I think her baby would be better off in a foster home. At least there I'm sure the baby would never be given Tylenol, that she'd be fed only organic food, that she'd breathe only filtered air and drink filtered water, and that she'd be given formula, the purity of which no mother's breastmilk can match. And I know only the best people are chosen to be foster parents, not selfish people like this woman.

Anybody know the number to social services?

Lady, your brain is not even close to functioning fully.

Cars are things that help when driving long distances. Yes, things that get you from one place to another. They have a function. A use. Comparing driving an automobile with smoking pot is the most inane comparison I have ever heard. No amount of logical argument will help somebody with your most decidedly non-mental prowess.

It all boils down to this: is smoking pot harmful?

Yes.

If smoking pot is harmful, you are harming your baby. End of story.


----------



## Kristine

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ruby slippers*
Thanks for this thread, it is very interesting. I just don't understand how you can be avoiding chemicals during pregnancy and birth, researching vaccines and their potential effects, etc yet feel like it is acceptable to smoke pot when breastfeeding??? It simply doesn't make sense, can someone explain that to me? I would imagine there aren't many studies on the effects of pot on breastfed babies as attempting to get a few thousand mothers of breastfeeding infants to be recruited would be difficult....

Best post yet! It makes me happy to see a thinking person post this.

I shall now resume caring for my child and doing what is best for him, rather than giving in to my baser impulses. Something that apparently most on here feel is fine to do as long as it makes the mother feel good, even at her child's expense.

You may all carry on now with your highly intellectual debate.


----------



## abclan

I live in an area of NorCal where it is not at all uncommon for parents --- be they pregnant, bfing, homebirthing, epidural-lovin', church-going, PTC tresuring, off-the-grid, mini-van driving, metro-soccer-coaching, makin more than 100k, strugglin' with less than 18,000k, teaching in public school, SAHMing, vegan, walmart shopping addicts, dermatologists, crafty mamas, people who even voted for (horrors!) Bush . . . .and you know what? They smoke herb. Some occasionally, some daily.

Good people. Good kids. Honor roll kind of kids. Kids who get atheletic scholarships. Kids who go on to become just as wonderful and sucessful and productive and caring as their parents.

I know there are some parents who a poor examples to their kids - Yeah, Some smoke pot, some are sober, some a conservative, some are vegetarian, some make chronically bad decisions, some just . . . who knows?

Get worked up all you want about it . . . but if you really want to worry, worry about METH!!


----------



## ruby slippers

We cannot control all the chemicals our children are exposed to. We live in a country where driving a car is a necessity. We are all using a computer. Taking drugs during a root canal or during surgery is so very different from sitting at home maybe listening to some music and not necassarily "getting high" but using for recreation AND breastfeeding. Without the breastfeeding, who cares what you put in your body but to expose a baby who doesn't get a say in this, seems intuitively wrong. Maybe my intuition is out.


----------



## ruby slippers

I think a little meth every now again is fine, my kids do just great on it -







it was the vaccines that poisoned them!!!


----------



## cottonwood

_"Lady, your brain is not even close to functioning fully. [...] No amount of logical argument will help somebody with your most decidedly non-mental prowess."_

How very impressive that the best response you can come up with is to attack me personally.

_"Cars are things that help when driving long distances. Yes, things that get you from one place to another. They have a function. A use."_

So if something is harmful but is useful, then it's okay? (Oh, and I'm aware of what cars are for, but thanks so much for clarifying!)

_"Comparing driving an automobile with smoking pot is the most inane comparison I have ever heard."_

They both expose one to chemicals, so it is reasonable to compare them. If the comparison ultimately fails, though, it is because car exhaust is far more dangerous to one's health than moderate consumption of marijuana.

_"It all boils down to this: is smoking pot harmful? Yes."_

How about ingesting it in other ways? Proof?


----------



## Kristine

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourlittlebirds*
_"Lady, your brain is not even close to functioning fully. [...] No amount of logical argument will help somebody with your most decidedly non-mental prowess."_

How very impressive that the best response you can come up with is to attack me personally.

_"Cars are things that help when driving long distances. Yes, things that get you from one place to another. They have a function. A use."_

So if something is harmful but is useful, then it's okay? (Oh, and I'm aware of what cars are for, but thanks so much for clarifying!)

_"Comparing driving an automobile with smoking pot is the most inane comparison I have ever heard."_

They both expose one to chemicals, so it is reasonable to compare them. If the comparison ultimately fails, though, it is because car exhaust is far more dangerous to one's health than moderate consumption of marijuana.

_"It all boils down to this: is smoking pot harmful? Yes."_

How about ingesting it in other ways? Proof?

All of the things that you mention -- food, water, cars -- are necessities of our modern life.

We need food to live. It's best to buy organic foods. But if you cannot afford them, you must still buy food for your child to eat. Thus they may be exposed to harmful chemicals through their foods.

A child needs water to survive. If you cannot afford bottled water that is free from fluoride, the child will have to drink tap water. Through the simple act of drinking water a child may be ingesting chemicals.

A person does not NEED pot to live or to survive. Is that simple enough for you to understand? Comparing pot with food, water or an automobile is faulty logic.

Another amazing thing I find is that with all of the chemicals one may ingest just by living, breathing, eating and drinking, one would think that a mother would be even more concerned and not advocate ingesting even MORE chemicals through a habit that is based only on their desire to get high and feel good.

For all the moms who get high on here, at least just admit that you do it because you want to. Not because you NEED to. Certainly, don't try to pretend that it's doing your baby any good. You don't help your cause out at all.

And for those that say things like, "Well, so and so down the street did it, and their kids are fine," you may as well be saying, "So and so hit their kids a lot, but they turned out fine." One cannot tell quite how these children would have turned out had the mother not been engaged in her medicinal pursuits, so one cannot definitively state that, can they?


----------



## cottonwood

_"We live in a country where driving a car is a necessity. We are all using a computer."_

You choose to live in that country. You choose to live somewhere that you need a car. You choose to use a computer. Much of the world makes use without these things. We use these things for reasons of convenience, and we consider that an acceptable exchange for the risks. But why is that more honorable or more okay than using a substance for purposes of enjoyment or comfort? Especially when deleterious effects from that substance have not been proven to be inherent and universal with all kinds of use?


----------



## Kristine

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ruby slippers*
I think a little meth every now again is fine, my kids do just great on it -







it was the vaccines that poisoned them!!!

I hear ya! Personally, I think the crack was fine for me and didn't harm my kid at all. Those vaccines on the other hand may have scarred him for life!!


----------



## punkycpunkydo

i smoke an am breastfeeding an am so worried because i do smoke everyday a bowl or three ?


----------



## cynthiamoon

Pretty sure that post by fourlittlebirdd is an excellent piece of satire.


----------

