# Teen Sex - Accepting or Encouraging?



## MommaKath1975 (Dec 4, 2010)

My 16 yr old daughter has been with her bf for over 2 yrs now and she is on bc and they do use condoms. This past weekend was the first time that I've allowed him to stay overnight at our house, and when I mentioned this to my sister she was all upset with me for saying that I was "encouraging" them to have sex. I definitely would not encourage a teenager to have sex but on the other hand I have accepted the fact that some teens do and it does help that I truly like her bf. I'm kind of second guessing myself now but my gut tells me that if they're going to do it, the safety of the home is much better. Anyone else been through this and how did you handle it?


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## AttunedMama (Jan 19, 2011)

Hugs. I pretty much lean your direction. My kids aren't 'teens' yet, but I am aware that when I tacitly accept any sexual curiousities/questions, things are so much better than when I react.

One of my favorite songs is a from father to his growing daughter, and includes the line "....it don't matter who you do it with, just remember when I tell you baby, YOU the sh**".

Also, when I get questioned, I recenter with a little reading on various societies, to remember that there's not "one way" of growing/living/sexing.

Best wishes!


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

In my opinion, as someone who got pregnant at 17, as the mom of a now 15 year old, inviting the boyfriend to spend the night IS condoning sex especially if you know they are already having it. It's like saying "I am so ok with you sleeping with your boyfriend, I am going to invite him over to sleep with you."

As far as the "safety of the home" idea...well, it's sex, not drinking and driving. Condoms don't have less of an effect just because they are used in the car (or whereever) vs in the bedroom. Having sex someplace NOT the bedroom doesn't put anyone at any more risk of STDs or pregnancy. The biggest risk I can see to having sex someplace else is maybe getting arrested for indecent exposure if they are in public? To me the big risks of teens having sex are the STDs and pregnancy, which aren't in anyway affected by the location the sex occurs in.

ETA: I am not however saying that not inviting him to spend the night is going to prevent sex from happening. I only mean that it's going to send the message to your dd that you are cool with her having sex. If she's already having sex, she's probably going to continue whether you approve or not.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

My 17yo knows that I will accept her decision when she is eady. But... I'm sorry - it's not going to be under my roof.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Hmm, I don't want to say too much because I'm less anonymous than some of you..... but my dd is 17. She keeps a 3.8 GPA and has a steady boyfriend. We've talked, she has good medical well woman care and I think she's a great kid. I do provide some time for them to be alone as a couple together but I don't allow overnights. That crosses a line with someone else's kid as far as my world view goes.


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## Catubodua (Apr 21, 2008)

i'd stop speaking about this to other people. this is especially important if he's over 18 and she's under the age of consent where you live. you don't want the guy getting arrested on statutory rape charges because people have heard he's over there having sex with her.

also, it's sort of odd you'd want to share this information with anyone. you're essentially gossiping about her sex life.


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## RoamingWidgeteer (Jan 7, 2010)

Have you read this article: "The smart Dutch take on teen sex" ?

Teenagers having sex at home with the parent's consent does *not* mean higher pregnancy or STD rates.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RoamingWidgeteer*
> 
> Have you read this article: "The smart Dutch take on teen sex" ?
> 
> Teenagers having sex at home with the parent's consent does *not* mean higher pregnancy or STD rates.


But that does not mean parents have to allow it.


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## whatsnextmom (Apr 2, 2010)

Well, to each their own. Personally, I wouldn't allow a boy or girl friend to spend the night at that age unless there was some very valid reason they needed to stay AND they were staying in a different room.

For me it's not really about encouraging or not encouraging. It's my house and I really don't want my child screwing someone in the next room whether I like the person or not. I think DH and I have a right to that boundary. Does it mean I expect my children to be virgins until they get married? No. Do I want them well informed and have access to birth control? Yes. Does it mean that I'm some tyrant who doesn't give her child any freedom? Of course not! I'm just not comfortable with an underage child sharing a bed with a partner in my home. It's my home. I get to be the comfortable one lol.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Catubodua* also, it's sort of odd you'd want to share this information with anyone. you're essentially gossiping about her sex life.


I don't have an opinion on the sleep over issue. We aren't there yet and I'm not sure how I'll feel when we are.

But I agree that it's not appropriate for you to discuss this with others. It is gossiping. In an ideal world, sex is a private matter. Her aunt, your friends, etc don't need to know. Talking to other people about it seems disrespectful of her, and it's just asking people to judge her.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I'm a little confused why there is the assumption that having a significant other spend the night will *in any way* effect if/when the couple was having sex. The couple in the OP is *already* having sex, they are obviously not looking for exclusively sex by spending the night. Personally, I really like actually sleeping with DP. I always have. In some ways, I could see the opposite arguement--- that having someone sleep over introduces the idea that it is *not* all about sex--- that there is time for companionship, cuddling, etc...

Ask me how I feel about it in 4 years, though, lol.


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## chaimom (Aug 22, 2007)

I think you made the wrong decision. Did you talk to the other parents first? I wonder what they think about your decision and how it impacts their son? What if your daughter gets pregnant? And you let them have overnights at your house?

I'd have a serious issue with a parent who let my son spend the night, knowing he would have sex with her daughter. I know that statistically, my son is likely to have sex as a teenager. Still. It's just not appropriate for another parent to invite him over to do it. It doesn't matter at all whether you like the kid. It doesn't matter whether you think they're already doing it.

I think you should back track. Tell the kids you've thought it over, realized you made a mistake, and you can't have boy/girl sleepovers anymore. And I think you should hope his parents have the same point of view that you did, because if they don't, and they find out, I think they'll be quite upset.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

I don't think it's an issue. If the boy is gone all night I'd assume his parents knew where he was and they were ok with it. If they don't know where he is then him sleeping at your house is probably less of an issue than him lying. If you know they're already having sex does it really matter where? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to do it at home instead of in a car where they could get fined for indecent exposure? And from my view sleepovers don't always mean sex. I had sleepovers with DH all the time in high school and college and I was a virgin until we got married. It was nice just to sleep next to someone though.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

I think that a teen being honest with a parent about being sexual active is a privileged conversation, and I don't think that the parent has any obligation to share that information with anyone, including the other teens parents.

If you want to know what is going on with your kids, it's really up to you to build that relationship. If you fail to do that, then it's not anyone else job to tell you.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Hang on here - I believe the OP said that she mentioned to her sister that the boyfriend spent the night. A lot of inferences about gossiping about sex have been made when that wasn't in the original post. I could easily see how the boyfriend came up in casual conversation ('well, we have to make sure Jack gets home before we can meet you"), and the sister getting upset about the fact that the boyfriend spent the night.

Personally, I haven't a clue what I'd do. I like the European approach intellectually, but emotionally, I'm very much a product of my culture, and the thought of my kids having sex in my house while they're teens is a bit much for me. Right now my kids are too young for it to matter, and I strongly suspect it might not be an issue early (we're kind of high on the nerdy scale in our family). Once they're in college, I have an easier time with it.

OP, it sounds to me like you're OK with where you dd is at, that the kids themselves are practicing safe sex. So, I vote for not changing things (it's kind of hard to revoke the privilege of him staying over once it's happened), and keeping your relatives in the dark.


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## KaylaBeanie (Jan 27, 2009)

As someone who came from a home where premarital sex was discouraged and my boyfriend (we were semi-long distance) was never allowed to share my bed (we were 19 and in college...) during the breaks/summer, I think you are doing a fantastic job. I've always maintained that, given my upbringing, I will be the parent who is open about sex and will readily provide birth control, condoms and alone time (yes, even sleepovers) once my kids are the legal age of consent. I'm sure when I have kids I will alter my ideas on many things, but I hope deeply that this is not one of those things because I've studied psychology; it is SO easy to unknowingly teach teens that sex is shameful, and I don't think that allowing your DD's boyfriend to stay over is condoning it. You're merely accepting that she is a young woman making her own choices, and to be frank, if someone is old enough to have sex there is no reason that sharing a bed is scandalous and inappropriate.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtiger*
> 
> My 17yo knows that I will accept her decision when she is eady. But... I'm sorry - it's not going to be under my roof.


Well, unless you are under your roof 100% of the time, and in the same room they are in day and night, it very well might be under your roof. If we polled everyone on mdc (or anywhere) I bet a good portion of us had sex in our house and/or in our boyfriend's house as teenagers. After school, when you are at the grocery store, before you get home from work, while you are at (insert wherever you go). I was on the honor roll, never smoked or did drugs, parents and teachers loved me - and I had sex in my house and his house.


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## FAmom (Oct 28, 2010)

Letting someone sleep over does not encourage sex. Speaking as someone who had sex at 16, you don't need to have the blessing of your parents to have sex under their roof.

My parents likely figured I was sexually active. My boyfriend was allowed to spend the night, when I was 16, but he was to sleep downstairs on the couch. And, he did. Not that we didn't get an opportunity to have sex either. We just had to be creative. Be resourceful. Stay awake later than my parents at times. He was sleeping over not for the purpose of having sex, at least in my parents eyes. The reason he was allowed to stay over was for safety, if it was too late, or for other lame excuses we gave, that they in theory bought or chose to accept.

I think that, for me, openly having a conversation about sex, protection, and the ramifications of a whole range of related issues, is a great thing to have with your kids. I don't necessarily think you have to provide, knowingly, a venue for their experimentation. They'll find a way. Seriously. Day or night, and not necessarily allocated to a bed. Teenagers, at least way back when I was that young, thought outside of the box, and didn't necessarily need the comfort of a bed, or the night, like some of us with old bodies do.

Sleeping over is fine. Let him sleep on the couch.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> I don't think it's an issue. If the boy is gone all night I'd assume his parents knew where he was and they were ok with it. If they don't know where he is then him sleeping at your house is probably less of an issue than him lying. If you know they're already having sex does it really matter where? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to do it at home instead of in a car where they could get fined for indecent exposure? And from my view sleepovers don't always mean sex. I had sleepovers with DH all the time in high school and college and I was a virgin until we got married. It was nice just to sleep next to someone though.


ITA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kirsten*
> 
> Well, unless you are under your roof 100% of the time, and in the same room they are in day and night, it very well might be under your roof. If we polled everyone on mdc (or anywhere) I bet a good portion of us had sex in our house and/or in our boyfriend's house as teenagers. After school, when you are at the grocery store, before you get home from work, while you are at (insert wherever you go). I was on the honor roll, never smoked or did drugs, parents and teachers loved me - and I had sex in my house and his house.


Thanks. And it doesn't sound like it was influenced in the least by having boyfriend be able/not be able to sleep over.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtiger*
> 
> But that does not mean parents have to allow it.


True. But it means that when parents DO allow it, there is less likelihood of an unwanted pregnancy or std.

So, I guess it's a trade off between the what is best for the teen - avoiding pregnancy and stds - or what is best for the parent - avoiding the discomfort of accepting that your teen is having sex.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> 
> True. But it means that when parents DO allow it, there is less likelihood of an unwanted pregnancy or std.
> 
> So, I guess it's a trade off between the what is best for the teen - avoiding pregnancy and stds - or what is best for the parent - avoiding the discomfort of accepting that your teen is having sex.


How exactly is there less likelihood of an unplanned pregnancy or STD if parents allow their kids to have sex at home? There's a lot of variables there, so I'm curious.

We are not in this stage, but I do wonder, reading these posts, if folks feel that their children should have a right to expect that their parents will give them time, accommodations, and privacy to have sex with their boyfriends/girlfriends at home? I personally would never have expected this of my parents, nor do I think I would have wanted it. I have a good relationship with my parents, no shaming, etc. To me, this was part of growing up and moving on....getting out of the house and having privacy to conduct certain parts of my life, including my relationships, by myself. Maybe my boundaries are different.

I also don't think that it's a huge deal for kids to have to be a little more creative or determined if they absolutely want to have sex together. Maybe it adds to the "think twice about it" idea. I'm sure I'll get flak for saying so, but am I missing something?


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

I think there's a big difference between accepting that a teen will have sex, and approving of it. I accept that my 15 year old my choose to have sex before she graduates high school. We have had discussions, she certainly knows the mechanics and the risks and so on, and accept that she may very well decide to have sex anyway.

But that doesn't mean I have to approve of it. That doesn't mean that I teach that sex is shameful or wrong or anything like that. I am trying to teach her that the risks are not worth the benefits at this time and that I don't think it's a risk she should be taking right now. And I feel that providing location and opportunity says that the risk is ok to take now.

To me, it's like an adult child smoking. I don't like smoke, I don't want it in my house. So, once my kids are adults, if they decide to smoke, they aren't allowed to do it in my house. That doesn't mean that I am ashamed of them or anything like that, I just don't approve of them smoking and I don't want it in my house.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karne*
> 
> How exactly is there less likelihood of an unplanned pregnancy or STD if parents allow their kids to have sex at home? There's a lot of variables there, so I'm curious.


In conversations with my kids and books we have at home, my DD have been introduced the range of options for birthcontrol. We've had talks about sex and how to make decisions about sex. We talked about which forms of birthcontrol are available over the counter and which ones require a trip to the doctor and a prescription. I've made it very clear to the that I have their insurance cards and prescription cards, and if, at any point in the future, they want to use a prescription form of birth control, they can just say so and I'll help them arrange it. I've also pointed out where condoms are sold (in stores we go to all the time) and how very inexpensive they are, and how they require no pre-planning or chats with anyone else.

I think that because of my frank conversations with my kids and the information and acceptance they have, they will be more likely to use protection than they might other wise.

I think that a kid who knows his/her parents will FREAK OUT if they find out they are having sex, will be less likely to get birthcontrol in the first place because of the shame factor, may have trouble getting the type of BC they prefer because of cost/access to doctor/etc., and may have trouble having the BC with them because they are spending a lot of energy hiding it (owning BC is a huge offense in some families).

I also think that kids that are raised in an atmosphere of trust and acceptance on this issue will feel less shame, and there fore be able to speak up for themselves better, buy BC for themselves, etc.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Well, I dont have a teen, but I have two teen sisters and I wanted to share an experience that I had growing up with you. My best friend's mother always allowed coed sleepovers and she (grr...this is happening AGAIN. I cant turn off italics) is the only person that I was friends with in high school that married their high school sweetheart. Her parents always loved her bf and were super supportative of their relationship and now BFF's mom has a super happy daughter and a loving, wonderful son in law, whom she gets along with wonderfully. She is the ONLY one of my friends mom's from high school who has this relationship with her daughter or her son in law. It seems like its just one more way to allow your daughter to be honest about who she is, which I think is very important, especially in her own house.

My sisters and I have always had to lie about our relationships to our parents. In fact, because my mother was so opposed to me having sex before marriage, DH and I went to great lengths to hide the fact that we lived together for SIX YEARS before we were married.


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## treeoflife3 (Nov 14, 2008)

My mom always told me that when I decide to have sex, it is definitely MY decision. She refused to buy me a purity ring when I went through a phase of never wanting to have sex before marriage because she didn't want to be part of such a strict rule about sex for me. Sure, she'd have liked if I waited but she was more concerned with me being true to myself, and SAFE once I decided to have sex.

As a teen, I had to work on weekends but my family always went up to the land they own for camping and hunting (my family processes all their own meat.) She knew I'd have my boyfriend over. She never SAID so in so many words nor did she ever approve of it, but it was always a 'I know its happening and there isn't anything I can do about it so lets not talk about it since I know you are safe' kind of thing. When I was 17, she had left banana bread for me and my then boyfriend. Banana bread is a breakfast food in my family so it was pretty obvious the intentions hehe.

With that said though, I wasn't allowed co ed sleep overs unless the boys were in a separate room. In fact, I only had one on prom night. Boys slept on couches upstairs and the girls slept on a futon downstairs. I also had a boyfriend come along on a camping trip... he had to sleep in a tent with my brother rather than me. Yes, my mom knew I was having sex and accepted it as fact. She was happy to know I was safe and liked the guys I dated (including the ones I didn't have sex with.) However she wasn't interested in hosting sleep overs.

honestly, had she allowed them to sleep over, there is no way I could have had sex. It would have freaked me out for her to possibly hear us. Hell, I'm married with a kid and it STILL freaks me out when we stay at her place... and I know she's cool about sex! But, I'm pretty private about it. I can talk about it with my friends in great detail but I prefer no one but my husband to know when we actually have sex or to hear us during.

I don't think it is wrong to allow the sleepover. They might not want to have sex with you in the house and prefer the house to themselves for full privacy like I did. Or maybe they feel really respected that you understand their relationship is a serious one and not just a silly fling. Maybe they tell their friends 'ha, my mom actually LETS me have him sleep over so we can have sex! Does she not KNOW?!' but i'm guessing its more of a normal 'well, we've been together, we're serious, we've been having sex for a while so why wouldn't we be able to share a room?' kind of a deal.

I don't know that i'd do it... I can see myself more like my mom... not disproving of sex, but not interested in boys sleeping over either but I can definitely understand why parents might be okay with it. I think the initial reaction is worse than the situation actually is.


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## KaylaBeanie (Jan 27, 2009)

See, you say you don't teach it as shameful or wrong, but I would inclined to disagree. You directly compare something that is a fun, healthy, intimate way to express love (sex) with something dirty that kills you and has no benefits (smoking).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> I think there's a big difference between accepting that a teen will have sex, and approving of it. I accept that my 15 year old my choose to have sex before she graduates high school. We have had discussions, she certainly knows the mechanics and the risks and so on, and accept that she may very well decide to have sex anyway.
> 
> ...


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> In conversations with my kids and books we have at home, my DD have been introduced the range of options for birthcontrol. We've had talks about sex and how to make decisions about sex. We talked about which forms of birthcontrol are available over the counter and which ones require a trip to the doctor and a prescription. I've made it very clear to the that I have their insurance cards and prescription cards, and if, at any point in the future, they want to use a prescription form of birth control, they can just say so and I'll help them arrange it. I've also pointed out where condoms are sold (in stores we go to all the time) and how very inexpensive they are, and how they require no pre-planning or chats with anyone else.
> 
> ...


I get it. I have the same conversation and same attitude w/my dd, and I will with my ds as well. I haven't come down on which side I am yet on this issue-we aren't there yet, and I have learned that what I think at one point can change based upon real life circumstances, so I'll leave it at that.

But, I don't know how providing space, time and privacy for teens to have sex at home decreases STD's or unplanned pregnancy. I guess you could assume that at home a teen would have access to birth control that wasn't something along the lines of a birth control pill, and would always have a ready supply of condoms to reduce chances of STD infection. Is this the thinking? It seems like there's more to the issue of unplanned preganacy and STD's than this.

FWIW, neither I or my DH had parents who encouraged their kids to have sex at home. You're talking big, Catholic families here. We have very, very good relationships with our parents, so do our siblings, so I don't think that their expectations for their home, or kids, really impacted that. None of were saints either. I believe it's very possible to be open, frank, supportive, not freak out about your kid's sexuality, and still not feel quite OK with opening your home for the explicit purpose of making space for your kids to have sex.

I don't think that because one chooses not to create a welcoming environment in their home for their teens to have sex, it follows that you are freaking out about your kids deciding to become sexually active. Like a pp said, your teen could choose to do lots of things-smoke, drink, take drugs, that are ultimately their choice, and their responsibility. It doesn't follow that a loving, involved, realistic parent then chooses to welcome that in their home.


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## SithLadyFred (Mar 17, 2011)

I was raised by my father and I was allowed to have a boyfriend sleep over.

Kind of hilariously, but we never had sex while he slept over because I didn't want to gross my dad out or make him uncomfortable if he heard anything, ha!

My dad was fully accepting of my blossoming sexuality... when that boyfriend and I broke up a year or so later, my dad was there to comfort me and help me through it. I feel like the way he handled that situation start to finish, so to speak, was flawless. He validated that my relationship, even though I was a teenager, had deep meaning and importance to me. He didn't trivialize it when I was in the throes of the relationship, and thus during the trauma of break-up, he didn't trivialize the pain and hurt I was experiencing.

In hindsight I've laughed with my dad over that relationship, "puppy love". His way of describing it was that he knew as an adult with years more experience then I'd have, that that relationship was a drop in a bucket compared to what was to come, but for me in those very moments, that was what was most real and powerful, and that it would have been disrespectful for him to not validate that. That's not to say that he HAD to allow sleep-overs. I think it was his way of validating the "seriousness" of the relationship for me.

I'm not sure one way or another what I'll do in that situation. I think there are legitimate pros and cons to each side/option.. and ultimately all we can do is try to make the right decision for our family and ourselves. I think if having teenage sleepovers of this nature is going to make a parent super uncomfortable and unhappy (i.e. if they have to force themselves to not object) that may actually be bad in the long run- it could cause resentment issues from the parent towards their child's partner and that's never a good thing.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Ok, seriously, I took smoking as the first thing I could think of right off the top of my head that I don't approve of. And actually, I have never actually compared smoking and sex to my child. It was just an example I used here to illustrate a point.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaylaBeanie*
> 
> See, you say you don't teach it as shameful or wrong, but I would inclined to disagree. You directly compare something that is a fun, healthy, intimate way to express love (sex) with something dirty that kills you and has no benefits (smoking).


The way I have actually discussed it with her? From the standpoint of the experiences we have both had. As in "our life was not easy those first few years. Do you really want to take the risk of ending up in the same situation?" And before we talk about protection making that risk less, she was conceived while using protection. And she knows that.


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## Greenlea (Apr 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> Well, I dont have a teen, but I have two teen sisters and I wanted to share an experience that I had growing up with you. My best friend's mother always allowed coed sleepovers and she (grr...this is happening AGAIN. I cant turn off italics) is the only person that I was friends with in high school that married their high school sweetheart. Her parents always loved her bf and were super supportative of their relationship and now BFF's mom has a super happy daughter and a loving, wonderful son in law, whom she gets along with wonderfully. She is the ONLY one of my friends mom's from high school who has this relationship with her daughter or her son in law. It seems like its just one more way to allow your daughter to be honest about who she is, which I think is very important, especially in her own house.


I can understand this story. While our BF's were not allowed to sleep over, my parents were very open with us about sex, and we were open with them. I only ever had ONE boyfriend, whom I dated for 7 years and then married. He was my only sexual partner. My sister dated her husband 10 yrs before marrying him, he was her only sexual partner. And the same can be said about my younger sister. We are all still with our BF's (now husbands) from H.S. I think because our parents made us feel comfortable about our sexuality, we didn't have to go around sleeping with tons of guys at a young age, and found our one true loves quite early in life. I feel fortunate for this.

My parents were teen parents. They saw being open as a way to prevent us from getting pregnant young like they did. While they knew that we would be having sex with our boyfriends, our boyfriends were not allowed to sleep over. I personally wouldn't want to have sex as a teen with my BF knowing my parents were in the next room, or somewhere in the house. Even now, as a married adult with kids of my own, if I have an over night guest, I feel weird having sex with my DH. My BF did not spend the night at my house until I was in college, and he had to move an hour away. We would see each other on the weekends, and he would sleep with me at my Dad's house. However, my Dad was usually at his GF's house, so it didn't bother either of us that my BF was there for the night.

When my children are teenagers, I will not allow their GF's to sleep over or allow them to sleep at a GF's home (I only have boys right now). While I am assuming they are going to have sex as a teen, I do not believe they need to be doing it at my home, while I am there. They are under age and I find it inappropriate to have a GF/BF sleep over. Why would they need to anyways? If they go to the same school, they'll live in the same town, and the GF/BF can just go sleep at their own home, with his/her parents. Unless it is a long distance thing, there's no need for them to be playing house, while I'm at home. I'm going to assume though, that they may have sex in my home when I'm not there, and I guess that's okay as I would trust my son or daughter to be safe.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Im not there yet but I really cant see myself allowing my teenage children having SO's sleeping in the same bed with them at my house. something about it just seems so disrespectful to me. X and I weren't even allowed to sleep at his parents house until we were married and we were living together and PG at the time.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karne*
> 
> I don't think that because one chooses not to create a welcoming environment in their home for their teens to have sex, it follows that you are freaking out about your kids deciding to become sexually active. Like a pp said, your teen could choose to do lots of things-smoke, drink, take drugs, that are ultimately their choice, and their responsibility. It doesn't follow that a loving, involved, realistic parent then chooses to welcome that in their home.


Is your home a welcoming place for birthcontrol? I think requiring teens to be secretive makes it more difficult for them to be responsible.

I think if we truly want our teens to be responsible, they need to know that if we find "evidence" they are sexually active, that's it's no big deal. To me, that requires a certain level of honesty. I'm not convinced it's possible to teach teens they we are fine with them using birthcontrol while also teaching them that they had better keep their sex life a secret from us.

I think the message that a lot of teens end up with from their parents is "whatever you do, don't let me catch you with condemns." It's no wonder so many of them end up pregnant or with STDs.

And the freaking out issue is really in the mind of the teen -- based on what they parent says and how the parents acts, our teens evaluate how freaked out we would be over certain things and make choices based on how they think we would respond. If in the parents mind, finding birthcontrol is in the same category as finding drugs, I think it's possible the teen would skip the BC and cross their fingers, and we all know how effective hope is as a form of BC.


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sharlla*
> 
> Im not there yet but I really cant see myself allowing my teenage children having SO's sleeping in the same bed with them at my house. something about it just seems so disrespectful to me. X and I weren't even allowed to sleep at his parents house until we were married and we were living together and PG at the time.


But WHY is it disrespectful? Is it disrespectful when you and your partner have sex in the house where your children live? What exactly is disrespectful to you when somebody else who also lives in the family home has sex?


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Is your home a welcoming place for birthcontrol? I think requiring teens to be secretive makes it more difficult for them to be responsible.
> 
> ...


Indeed. I remember how my mother freaked out when she found my birth control pills when I was 23 and on a visit home for the weekend. She felt perfectly comfortable searching my handbag for them, too, as she felt it was her right as a parent.

It strikes me that I read so much on MDC about child led learning, child led potty training, child led weaning, but when that child is growing up, child led exploration of their sexuality is a big no-no. Funny, that...


----------



## Greenlea (Apr 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> 
> It strikes me that I read so much on MDC about child led learning, child led potty training, child led weaning, but when that child is growing up, child led exploration of their sexuality is a big no-no. Funny, that...


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Is your home a welcoming place for birthcontrol? I think requiring teens to be secretive makes it more difficult for them to be responsible.
> 
> ...


Did I not say that I agreed with, and practiced the open dialog, commitment to assisting w/birth control, etc. as you referenced in your post? How would that lead to questioning whether my home was a welcoming place for birth control? Perhaps this isn't your intent, but I find the question and lecturing tone offensive. I'm not a new poster to this forum. I'm generally there with most of what goes on here, so I don't get the negative attitude. Like I said in my post, we're not there yet. I'm just mulling things over, and trying to work out some of the ideas I'm challenged with here.

Too bad there can't be dialog and folks need to resort to lecturing and snarky comments about not supporting child led learning if you dare to question this issue. Way to shut down conversation. Is this the model of respectful behavior that we all seem so committed to have with our kids?


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## love4bob (Apr 30, 2008)

I also don't have teens yet, but I do think there is a difference in allowing child led learning ect. and keep your child safe. I do think that there are dangers when kids start having sex. There is STD's, pregnancies, and emotional consequences that can effect their lives greatly. I don't think that a child is equipped to handle all of that. Yes you should be open about it all, and have open conversations about these dangers and how to avoid them(like having access to different forms of bc), but that doesn't mean that I would facillitate and endorse them doing something that is too dangerous or risky for them at that time in their lives. They need to be focusing on education and preparing for their lives as adults at that point. Once they are 18 and adults they can do whatever they want, and I hope that I can provide them with the proper knowledge on how to go about their adult sex lives safely.

Just like I wouldn't facilitate and endorse child led experimenting with drugs or alcohol I wouldn't do that for sex either. Some things are meant for adults, and I do not believe that children(teens) are at the point where they can have that kind of adult relationship rationally.

I did have sex when I was 16, and it was with my husband(then boyfriend). I got my own birth control pills, and until then we used condoms. I asked my mom to get me on bc, but she wouldn't because she said I shouldn't be having sex. I just went to planned parenthood and got it though. I was very immature, and not emotionally ready for sex. I don't regret it at all because we stayed together, and everything worked out fine. I don't believe that we were ready though, and it effected me emotionally and it effected my life forever. It all worked out, but I was lucky. If that relationship had gone a different direction I would have likely regretted it.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> It strikes me that I read so much on MDC about child led learning, child led potty training, child led weaning, but when that child is growing up, child led exploration of their sexuality is a big no-no. Funny, that...


When we are talking about child led potty learning, an accident means poop on the floor. When we are talking about child led education, a mistake means that the child learns to read a little later than average.

With child led sexuality a mistake means that ANOTHER LIFE can be brought into the world, or that the child exploring could contract a life ending disease. The risks of a child exploring her sexuality simply don't compare to the risks of child lead weaning or child led potty training.

The fact is that at 15, 16, even going into 17, my child is still....a child. Yes she's a teen, not a 2 year old needing guidance on crossing the street. But, just like she needed that guidance at 2 on how to make decisions about crossing the street, at 15, she still needs guidance on how to make decisions about sex. And I am going to provide that guidance, which includes not approving of sex before at the very least high school graduation.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *love4bob*
> 
> I also don't have teens yet, but I do think there is a difference in allowing child led learning ect. and keep your child safe. I do think that there are dangers when kids start having sex. There is STD's, pregnancies, and emotional consequences that can effect their lives greatly. I don't think that a child is equipped to handle all of that. Yes you should be open about it all, and have open conversations about these dangers and how to avoid them(like having access to different forms of bc), but that doesn't mean that I would facillitate and endorse them doing something that is too dangerous or risky for them at that time in their lives. They need to be focusing on education and preparing for their lives as adults at that point. Once they are 18 and adults they can do whatever they want, and I hope that I can provide them with the proper knowledge on how to go about their adult sex lives safely.
> 
> ...


I DO have teens, and I think that is why I have a different perspective from yours. When our children are small, it is hard for us to imagine what it is like for them to grow up. My DDs are not children, they are young women, and are perfectly capable of making decisions about their own sexuality. They can even do so while concentrating on their education and preparing for adult life. Exploring their sexuality IS preparing for adult life. They are informed about safe sex.I certainly have never tried to make then view sex as dangerous and risky - they know how to mitigate the risks. Being sexually active does not mean that they lose focus on other important things, it is just a small part of life.


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## Tigeresse (Nov 19, 2001)

I think it really depends on the situation, the maturity of the teens, the relationship, their age, and how educated they are wrt the risks, other kids in the house, true level of privacy, etc.

I know there is sex going on in my basement . However, this is an exclusive relationship of almost a year, both kids are over 18, and I know at least my kids has been very well educated. BUT...gf does not sleep over unless it is a group slumber party type thing. My ds does not sleep at her house. Maybe I will change my mind on that when they're in their 20's...but for now she needs to go home. But funny thing is, we've never been asked to host her overnight (bad weather or something we certainly would). Nor has ds asked to stay at her house. Just hasn't come up.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Why do so many of these posts seem fixated on age or arbitrary events? There's a lot of well my 16 y/o is just 16 so absolutely not or I won't approve until after high school/college/etc.. What happened to looking at a person's (I hesitate to call a 16 y/o a child b/c so many aren't) maturity level and figuring out how to parent based on that?


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## JellyMomma (May 16, 2008)

It doesn't seem like a problem to me...as long as the boy's parents are in agreement.

I have some friends who have a 16 y.o. dd with a boyfriend of over a year. The girl is on BC. But the parents are bent on preventing them from having sex--it's very strange. They know the kids are having sex but the parents don't make it easy. The kids are never allowed any time to be alone. If they go to the movies the parents figure out that it should take them 15 minutes to drive home and they they don't allow any more time than that. I think they're just sending the message that sex is shameful and dirty and their daughter is a tramp. I don't know how the BC ever came about...but as least they're being smart about that.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> Why do so many of these posts seem fixated on age or arbitrary events? There's a lot of well my 16 y/o is just 16 so absolutely not or I won't approve until after high school/college/etc.. What happened to looking at a person's (I hesitate to call a 16 y/o a child b/c so many aren't) maturity level and figuring out how to parent based on that?


Um, finishing high school is not an arbitrary event. Not having a high school diploma makes it really difficult to get a job that will provide enough income to live off of, let alone live comfortably. And getting pregnant in high school makes it difficult to finish high school.

As far as age...yes, I think everyone is fully aware that there are plenty of people who can say they were SO mature at 16 or 15 or 17 or whatever, that they were as fully mature as an adult etc etc etc. But, the reality is, a vast majority of of teens are simply not as mature as adults. They just aren't. Walk into any high school if you need proof of that.


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## love4bob (Apr 30, 2008)

Also, I thought that it was scientific knowledge that teens don't have a full brain capacity to make completely rational decesions until they are older.... Like into the twenties. I know I made completely irrational dumb decisions back then(including lying to my mom, having sex, doing drugs....) and I was a driven responsible great teen before that. I really did get lucky that it all turned out so well for me. I'm sure that some teens may be mature enough for an adult relationship at that age, but I do not believe that is the norm. I would rather ere on the cautious side and protect my child's future as well as I can while they are still a minor under my guidence and responsibility. I do think it is possible to teach your child that they shouldn't be having sex while in high school and why without teaching them that sex is shameful. It is all about the why, explain why you don't approve. It's not that it is shameful just that it CAN mess up your future, and that is just not a risk that a teen should be taking.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

I am curious, how many folks who approve of teens having sex, have actually experienced some of those risks? How many of you have gotten pg as a teen, bc or not? How many have had to make the decison of becoming a teen parent, or abortion or adoption? Had the guy walk out? How many have to go through HIV treatments for the rest of their lives, knowing their lives are likely shortened and that every single relationship they have in the future will be forever altered? How many have dealt with infertility due to an STD that was never discovered and went untreated?

These are real risks of sex...at any age, protection or not. They are not risks I will approve of my child taking, when she is not fully responsible for her own life.


----------



## love4bob (Apr 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> I am curious, how many folks who approve of teens having sex, have actually experienced some of those risks? How many of you have gotten pg as a teen, bc or not? How many have had to make the decison of becoming a teen parent, or abortion or adoption? Had the guy walk out? How many have to go through HIV treatments for the rest of their lives, knowing their lives are likely shortened and that every single relationship they have in the future will be forever altered? How many have dealt with infertility due to an STD that was never discovered and went untreated?
> 
> These are real risks of sex...at any age, protection or not. They are not risks I will approve of my child taking, when she is not fully responsible for her own life.


That is how I feel too. I got pregnant at 17 while on the pill. It changed my life forever. I had college plans, but that hanged too. The father(DH) and I were in love already, and luckily for me he stuck around, we got married, he joined the Army, and helped create a great life for us. I was lucky, and this is not the case for many many teen moms.


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## whatsnextmom (Apr 2, 2010)

My mom and dad had me at 16. My parents are amazing and overcame a lot but I knew it had been an uphill climb filled with some major sacrifices. I chose not to have sex in high school based on that alone even though I had a very steady boyfriend my from 10th grade through most of college. Of course, the fact that two of my friends contracted genital herpes before their junior year in high school was persuasive as well. I met DH after college and we were "surprised" when we were 24 and we were using 2 forms of birth control. We were in a better place than most teenagers (finished school, already engaged after a 3 year courtship, a little older) but it still scared the willies out of us and totally altered the direction of our lives. We are grateful for DD (now 14) but more than once I've wished we had been more established before having kids. We've been pretty open about this stuff with DD recently. I'm not going to tell her she's evil or dirty should she choose to have sex as a teenager but I'm not inviting a boyfriend to spend the night. My parents were not forbidding but clear they'd rather me wait and I didn't grow up with any warped sense of sex or relationships. We are taking the same approach. It's her choice. We won't hate her for going against our opinion but we're also clear that it's something we'd rather her wait until after high school to engage in.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> I am curious, how many folks who approve of teens having sex, have actually experienced some of those risks? How many of you have gotten pg as a teen, bc or not? How many have had to make the decison of becoming a teen parent, or abortion or adoption? Had the guy walk out? How many have to go through HIV treatments for the rest of their lives, knowing their lives are likely shortened and that every single relationship they have in the future will be forever altered? How many have dealt with infertility due to an STD that was never discovered and went untreated?
> 
> These are real risks of sex...at any age, protection or not. They are not risks I will approve of my child taking, when she is not fully responsible for her own life.


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treeoflife3*
> 
> I don't think it is wrong to allow the sleepover. They might not want to have sex with you in the house and prefer the house to themselves for full privacy like I did. Or maybe they feel really respected that you understand their relationship is a serious one and not just a silly fling. Maybe they tell their friends 'ha, my mom actually LETS me have him sleep over so we can have sex! Does she not KNOW?!' but i'm guessing its more of a normal '*well, we've been together, we're serious, we've been having sex for a while so why wouldn't we be able to share a room?*' kind of a deal.
> 
> I don't know that i'd do it... I can see myself more like my mom... not disproving of sex, but not interested in boys sleeping over either but I can definitely understand why parents might be okay with it. I think the initial reaction is worse than the situation actually is.


Thank you for saying this so well. In high school I wanted to sleep with my then boyfriend (how DH of 13 years). Sleep. Cuddle. Not have sex.

I love sleeping with DP. I love sleeping with my kids, too! To me, the desire to sleep with someone is not 100% linked to the desire to have sex with them.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sharlla*
> 
> Im not there yet but I really cant see myself allowing my teenage children having SO's sleeping in the same bed with them at my house. something about it just seems so disrespectful to me. X and I weren't even allowed to sleep at his parents house until we were married and we were living together and PG at the time.


See, to me, you not being able to sleep with your partner who you were living with and having a child with seems extreamly disrespectful (of your relationship) to me. If you were gay and *couldn't* get married would you never be allowed to sleep togehter in your parents home?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JellyMomma*
> 
> It doesn't seem like a problem to me...as long as the boy's parents are in agreement.
> 
> I have some friends who have a 16 y.o. dd with a boyfriend of over a year. The girl is on BC. But the parents are bent on preventing them from having sex--it's very strange. They know the kids are having sex but the parents don't make it easy. The kids are never allowed any time to be alone. If they go to the movies the parents figure out that it should take them 15 minutes to drive home and they they don't allow any more time than that. I think they're just sending the message that sex is shameful and dirty and their daughter is a tramp. I don't know how the BC ever came about...but as least they're being smart about that.


Denial. Not just a river in Egypt. I wonder what lesson the kids are taking from it.


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## treeoflife3 (Nov 14, 2008)

I've been thinking about this, and I'm not sure I could allow sharing of rooms for teenagers despite my fully understanding why others would do it and not seeing anything wrong with it. For me, it is more about the law. Sure, the 18 age thing might seem silly but it is still the law whether the age is fair or right or not. I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable hosting something illegal knowingly even if all parents involved are cool with it. I also didn't like to drink before age 21 unless family gave me a drink (which is legal where I am from) which was usually for special occasions despite believing the age of 21 is unfairly high. It is the same reason I won't allow the use of pot even though I definitely think that should be legal (and haven't used it myself.)

I have a good 15 years though before this is an issue. Perhaps my feelings about it will change. Of course, I don't see my husband being okay with it in the least even if I end up all for it so that's a whole other issue.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treeoflife3*
> 
> I've been thinking about this, and I'm not sure I could allow sharing of rooms for teenagers despite my fully understanding why others would do it and not seeing anything wrong with it. *For me, it is more about the law. Sure, the 18 age thing might seem silly but it is still the law whether the age is fair or right or not.* I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable hosting something illegal knowingly even if all parents involved are cool with it. I also didn't like to drink before age 21 unless family gave me a drink (which is legal where I am from) which was usually for special occasions despite believing the age of 21 is unfairly high. It is the same reason I won't allow the use of pot even though I definitely think that should be legal (and haven't used it myself.)


Just so you know, the age of consent isn't 18 everywhere. Where I live, WA, it's 16 so even assuming the kids in the OP are having sex, they are doing nothing illegal.

Here is the wikipedia age on the topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America

In addition to a variety of ages, there are also rules that make same-age sexual activity "okay" even if one or both are under the official age of consent.

For your states (listed in your profile):

Quote:


> *Kentucky*
> 
> The age of consent in Kentucky is *16*. Section 510.020 of the Kentucky Revised Statutes deems a person unable to consent if he or she is less than 16 years old. It is a *defense* however if the "victim" is at least 14 and the actor is less than 5 years older {510.130(b)}.
> 
> ...


Not trying to change your mind, per se, but just wanted to pass some information on.

I have to admit my priority is not making sure my child obeys the law, though. If they, as a rational person, find a law unfair or unjust and choose to break it knowing the consequences I hope I can support them in their convictions.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
> 
> I have to admit my priority is not making sure my child obeys the law, though. If they, as a rational person, find a law unfair or unjust and choose to break it knowing the consequences I hope I can support them in their convictions.












Ive been looking to hear someone say this for months here at MDC. It seems like the "well, I dont want my child to break the law" is a common opinion that I do not share with others. Im not a big fan of laws, and I surely dont intend to teach my child that they have to do something because "its the law." Hmmm...S/O?


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Very few teens are breaking age of consent laws because of convictions or principles. They do it because they are horney.


----------



## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


> Very few teens are breaking age of consent laws because of convictions or principles. They do it because they are horney.


Thank you.


----------



## love4bob (Apr 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> Very few teens are breaking age of consent laws because of convictions or principles. They do it because they are horney.


Or because they don't even know what the law is too...


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## happyhippie (Apr 1, 2011)

Forget it. I am not going to change your mind, and I don't want to offend anyone because that's not how I roll. 
Birth Control Pill is not 100% preventable, and boys don't like condoms.


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## happyhippie (Apr 1, 2011)

Quote:


> Im not a big fan of laws, and I surely dont intend to teach my child that they have to do something because "its the law."


What???


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *love4bob*
> 
> . Like into the twenties. I know I made completely irrational dumb decisions back then(including lying to my mom, having sex, doing drugs....)


so you had sex as a teen but think that if you dissallow your teens having sex that they won't? why?

That just seems unrealistic to me.


----------



## love4bob (Apr 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> so you had sex as a teen but think that if you disallow your teens having sex that they won't? why?
> 
> That just seems unrealistic to me.


Disallowing is different I think than not approving. I had sex as a teen, but also my mother never talked about sex with me. She never told me why to wait, what having sex does to you, ect. When I brought up birth control when I wanted to have sex, she just said no because I shouldn't be having sex(haha what?). No real explanation other than teens don't need to have sex, no why. THAT was disallowing.

Even if I talk to my kids as to why they should wait, repercussions of having sex, pregnancy, birth control options(and failure rates), ect. they may still choose to do it, but I honestly can't stop that. With more knowledge we can make better decisions, so hopefully having open conversations about it and also relating it to my own experiences, they can see real reasons not to, and choose to wait. Maybe not though, but if I don't even try to dissuade them I would be out right saying that yes, it is great to have sex as a teen, and you are able to make adult decisions, which just isn't true.


----------



## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> so you had sex as a teen but think that if you dissallow your teens having sex that they won't? why?
> 
> That just seems unrealistic to me.


So, because we did stupid things as teens, we are supposed to be totally ok with our teens doing it? My husband did a lot of drinking and driving as a teen, so should he approve of his kids doing the same thing?


----------



## treeoflife3 (Nov 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
> 
> Just so you know, the age of consent isn't 18 everywhere. Where I live, WA, it's 16 so even assuming the kids in the OP are having sex, they are doing nothing illegal.
> 
> ...


Where we live now is only short term. Where we will be living, age of consent is 18. I grew up there and have known the laws most of my life. My concern however isn't that I make my children obey the law but rather that, as the adult with the responsibility of caring for them, I obey the law. My job as a parent is to be open and honest with my children and to give them the tools they need to make their own decisions. Perhaps like me, they will start having sex at 16 and never have regrets about it (I have no regrets) or perhaps they will choose to wait til a later age. I can't say but I will be supportive of the choices they make for themselves. However, that doesn't mean I need to allow the sharing of a bed at bedtime. Like my mom, if I'm away for a weekend, I might assume night guests are occurring (and even leave breakfast for them as I mentioned my mom did in a previous post) but again, while I am there, I am not sure I'd allow it. I don't have to like the law but I also don't care to be in trouble with it either. My children are free to make their own decisions about how much they care about protesting laws but again, while I am there, I don't have to be part of it so directly. They'll have plenty of opportunity anyway as I'm far too relaxed to watch their every single little move. I never had a problem not having a nighttime bed guest prior to 18 as I DID have plenty of opportunities to be with my boyfriends on my own terms. I knew my mom supported the right that I make my own decisions but she didn't want to be involved with underage law breaking either while she was in the home.

Like I said, perhaps I'll change my mind in a decade and a half, but I've never been the type to protest silly or unfair laws to the point of risking getting in trouble with it so I'm not sure that'll change. But hey, 15 years is a long time to change!


----------



## SuburbanHippie (Aug 29, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> I am curious, how many folks who approve of teens having sex, have actually experienced some of those risks?


I wondered the same thing as well. I was a great student, fabulous GPA, in clubs like Future Business Leaders of America, and held a part time job where I was promoted quickly despite my age. Then bam, knocked up right after my 18th birthday. Granted, yes I was an adult technically, but maturity wise I was not. I don't really think that many teens are as mature as adults would like to think they are. Biologically their brains are just not capable. They seek out stimuli and instant gratification and lets face it, that's what sex is at that age. I had to put my college plans on hold (until recently, I'm still working on my associates degree) and that sucked. I definitely know that I will not be all "Sure DS, let your gf spend the night. I trust you." because I won't trust his immature brain not to make the wrong decision like I did.


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## SithLadyFred (Mar 17, 2011)

I hope this won't offend people, but I find it odd that some are lumping in drinking, drug usage, and other such activity with their sexual activity in their teen years.

I had sex as a teenager.

I was also utterly uninterested in using drugs or drinking as a teenager and did neither.

All of that is just not intertwined. My brother was a virgin until well into his 20's but drank quite heavily through high school. I guess I'm kind of uncomfortable that sexuality is lumped in with those other things. Sexuality is not negative. Alcholism and drug addiction are. It's entirely possible for a teenager to be into exploring their sexuality without being into alcohol and/or drugs... and it's entirely possible for a teenager to push their sexuality off to the side and get into alcohol and drugs. All of this is possible independent of eachother. Humans are complicated.

As far as the maturity argument goes, I question that because a person isn't as mature now as they will be in the future, they aren't ready for something. No, humans even at the age of 18 are still growing and maturing, but they are also growing and maturing at the age of 25 and 30 and 40 and 45. We are constantly changing and maturing.. so it does strike me as setting an arbitrary date for "maturity" instead of assessing your child as an individual in their personal and emotional development. None of us reach a certain age where our brains magically switch over and we're suddenly ready for sex and everything that comes with us. That's why you hear talks of late bloomers, early bloomers, and everything in between.


----------



## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SithLadyFred*
> 
> I hope this won't offend people, but I find it odd that some are lumping in drinking, drug usage, and other such activity with their sexual activity in their teen years.
> 
> ...


The unspoken end to your sentence "I had sex as a teen" is" and nothing happened."

Obviously, I had sex as a teen. And, I never did drugs, and I didn't have a single sip of alcohol until after I had my daughter....and that was simply a sip of a daqari at midnight on new years eve, which happened to be the day after I came home from the hospital. The vicoden I was on was more potent. I didn't have more until I turned 21.

But, one of the reasons I lump the three together is because the risks are comparable, IMO, having personal experience with the risks of teen sex.

I don't think that wanting my teen to at least finish high school is some "arbitrary" date. I was lucky in that my dd was born in December of my senior year, and I was able to rearrange my senior year so that I graduated in 7 semesters, despite the fact that I had not been planning for that ahead of time (ie it took some special arrangements on the part of the school so that I could get the right graduation requirements in.) But, going to school, be it high school or college, as a single parent, is hard, especially with a newborn. Statistics prove that it's really difficult for those who become parents as teens, especially the younger it happens, to graduate high school. It is also very difficult for those who do not have a high school diploma to get a job that will fully support themselves and their child (or children)

It is not wrong or arbitrary to want my child to have completed the milestones that will give her the minimum necessary tools to fulfill the responsibilities of the potential consequences of having sex, before she chooses to take the risks.

And you know, lets be clear here...we are talking about sex. It's not like this is some once in a lifetime opportunity here. I have had some pretty mind blowing sessions with my DH, but it's still not the most important thing in my entire life. Heck, at this point in my life, SLEEP is often more important than an hour of even the most spectacular intimate session. My child's life is not going to be forever altered if she waits until she at least graduates high school before trying it out. It does however have the potential to be completely changed forever, protection or not, if she doesn't.

I also don't think there's anything wrong or arbitrary about preferring that she be totally responsible for her own life (which for most people comes once they graduate college, if they go right after high school-that's usually when they take on ALL of their bills for themselves, fully move into their own apartment with their own permanent address, etc) before she chooses to take on the risks of sex.

I am not a "abstinence till marriage" type of person. I don't believe that sex is so special that it should only be with one person in your entire life. I do believe that it's an important part of a marriage relationship and I believe it's actually important to know if you are completely uncompatible in that area, before you take the vows.

But my kid's got pretty clear goals and plans for her life. I don't think that any sex could be so spectacular that it's worth the risk of destroying those. And I know, through experience, that sex before high school graduation, carries a risk of that, protection or not.


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> The unspoken end to your sentence "I had sex as a teen" is" and nothing happened."
> 
> ...


Very well said


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

My kid had sex as a teen, in my house. She also drank as a teen, again in my house, and at least smoked pot as a teen, although not in my house. And she's off to a good college this fall (still choosing which one, but she's going) and isn't pregnant and doesn't have an STD... in large part because we talked about stuff, at the nitty gritty level as well as the theoretical level, and she talked to other people, and she was really clear that she did not want to get pregnant and took steps to prevent it. Condoms. Every time. And *also* the pill, which she takes at the same time every evening and has an alarm on her phone for that rings every day. We've talked about sex without condoms(so only the pill, not "double dutch") with a faithful partner who has been tested twice for STDs over a 6 month period... but that requires trusting the other person a whole lot.

I don't think I encouraged or discouraged. It would have been fine with me if she hadn't had sex, too. My message was, I hope, here are the risks and here are some good ways to manage those risks, and here's some data, and let me know if or when you want an appointment with the OB/GYN and what gender OB/GYN you want to see. I mean, she knows she was an unplanned baby (hint: do not necessarily trust guys who tell you they've had a vasectomy) and while in my situation an unexpected pregnancy was the best thing that could ever have happened to me, because it motivated me to get my life together, for someone whose life is already together it could make things tougher.

I guess in a way I think it's good that she navigated this while still at home, rather than as a freshman in a dorm 1000 miles away who doesn't really know where to go for answers and isn't necessarily comfortable talking to people there. YMMV...


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I do not think this is one clear answer.

I would not talk about the opposite sexes staying over. People make too many assumptions. I knew a guy that stayed at his girlfriend's house because mom had to work and there was nobody else to keep an eye on him. From their conversations, they never slept together when he did this. However, they did do a lot right after school when nobody was home.

I think age, maturity, length of relationship does matter. I would be more ok with my 17/18 on up having opposite sex stay the night. At some point, you have to say, "It's your life, your decision." However, that 16-year-old range is so diverse I cannot give a clear answer. The "ewe" my kids having sex attitude dumb founds me. When do you stop that attitude? Will you still have it when they have a few kids?

I do think my late exmil had a right idea about teen-age sex (even though I would not use her method). She had caught my ex and his girlfriend in the act. After the girlfriend left, my exmil took ex shopping: loaded the cart, with formula, diapers, baby food, and condoms. She loaded the belt and let the cashier ring everything up. When give then total she prompted my ex to pay. My ex did not have the money. She asked them why he was having sex thing. She did buy him condoms, but left the other stuff (poor cashier). They had more talks about sex and responsibility. My ex said he got a lot more careful and cautious about safe sex. He said his mom made him realize that even though he thought he was grown, he was not ready for the full responsibility of sex.


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## MsFortune (Dec 5, 2010)

I hope this won't offend people, but I find it odd that some are lumping in drinking, drug usage, and other such activity with their sexual activity in their teen years...

Alcholism and drug addiction are.
++++

I find it odd that you assume that drinking and drug usage are synonymous with alcoholism and drug addiction.


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## Cyllya (Jun 10, 2009)

I suspect that your typical homeschooled 16-year-old girl would have her life ruined less by pregnancy than I would, even though I'm 23 and have a bachelor's degree. So I don't see teen-age or even diploma status as a good reason to "disapprove" of someone having sex.

I think I'd discourage them from having sex before marriage, do to my own sex-related opinions, but if they made a different choice despite my advice, I don't see the point in making all sorts of symbolic gestures to show my disapproval.

Quote:


> Also, I thought that it was scientific knowledge that teens don't have a full brain capacity to make completely rational decesions until they are older.... Like into the twenties. I know I made completely irrational dumb decisions back then(including lying to my mom, having sex, doing drugs....) and I was a driven responsible great teen before that. I really did get lucky that it all turned out so well for me. I'm sure that some teens may be mature enough for an adult relationship at that age, but I do not believe that is the norm.


The "their brains are different" thing has been used to discriminate against minority races and is still used to discriminate against women. I don't accept it.


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## love4bob (Apr 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyllya*
> 
> The "their brains are different" thing has been used to discriminate against minority races and is still used to discriminate against women. I don't accept it.


Except that there is obviously a process of our brains growing, developing, and maturing in to an adult brain when we at adolescents. Not to mention all of the hormones fluctuating at the time in life. There is a huge difference in different age and development in humans and different races or genders. Gender can also play a role though because in most cases, females mature faster than males. It's nothing to do with intelligence, just natural development of the brain. I don't see that as discriminatory at all.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MsFortune*
> 
> I hope this won't offend people, but I find it odd that some are lumping in drinking, drug usage, and other such activity with their sexual activity in their teen years...
> 
> ...


I don't understand the ++++.

I think the comparison being made is that drinking, drug use, and sex are all activities that carry some risk of negative consequences that we hope to help our teens avoid, nothing more. I don't think anyone is equating drinking and drug use with addiction and alcoholism, but I may have missed it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *love4bob*
> 
> Except that there is obviously a process of our brains growing, developing, and maturing in to an adult brain when we at adolescents. Not to mention all of the hormones fluctuating at the time in life. There is a huge difference in different age and development in humans and different races or genders. Gender can also play a role though because in most cases, females mature faster than males. It's nothing to do with intelligence, just natural development of the brain. I don't see that as discriminatory at all.


Racial differences in brains? Really? I feel like I've been transported back to 1906...

Brains change throughout the lifespan, but there's not magic time when the brain is "done developing". On average, there are differences between the brains of 16 year olds and 40 year olds, but these are only averages and say nothing about individuals, first off. Second, there are things that 16 year old brains, again on average, do much better than 40 year old brains. They have a faster reaction time, for example. When driving, reaction time can be critical.

Tangentially related, I just posted about this study on facebook, which shows that conservatives have larger right amygdalas, which is associated with a quicker fear response, while liberals larger anterior cingulate cortexes, which are associated with a greater capacity for tolerating ambiguity. Of course, this study says nothing about causality, and that's important to think about. Does practicing living with ambiguity make your anterior cingulate cortex grow?


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Teen brains really are physically different from adult brains. That people tried to claim race and gender brain inadequacies in the past is irrelevant to this thread.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080328112127.htm

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/teenage-brain-a-work-in-progress-fact-sheet/index.shtml

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124119468

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/interviews/todd.html

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/science/july-dec04/brain_10-13.html


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journeymom*
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/science/july-dec04/brain_10-13.html


From the link: "But the findings from brain imaging show the brain takes much longer to mature and *doesn't fully mature till about 25".*

If this is true, many of the moms hanging out here on Mothering do not have fully mature brains. What should we do? Make all their choices for them? Tell them their opinions about their own lives don't matter? Treat them like those of us who are over 25 know more?

I choose to create an environment where my kids can make their own choices with the best information available, with openness and respect. If there is a magic moment when the brain research declares they are adults, it is long, long past the time when it is appropriate for their mommy to be telling them what to do. I'm much more concerned with teaching my kids to make good choices for their whole lives rather than spending these precious short years controlling them.

My advice to my kids is to use 2 forms of BC.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> I also don't think there's anything wrong or arbitrary about preferring that she be totally responsible for her own life (which for most people comes once they graduate college, if they go right after high school-that's usually when they take on ALL of their bills for themselves, fully move into their own apartment with their own permanent address, etc) before she chooses to take on the risks of sex.
> 
> ...


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*


Age might not bring automatic wisdom about when to have sex, or have babies, but it does make a difference in being able to be in a position to care for children. 13 is different from 16, different from 18, different from 21, etc. Middle school education, versus high school drop out, versus GED versus college graduate has economic impact. I'm sure someone will come forward with a story to negate this, or something else along those lines-whatever.

This thread was originally about accepting versus encouraging teen age sexuality. It seems to have morphed into a sort of "if you don't feel completely supportive and encouraging of your teen having sex then you are denying their sexuality, their personhood, and are in denial". Give me a break. How did it become that if you aren't making space and time in your home for your teen to have sex with their partner that you are doing something wrong?

I think it's great to encourage two forms of birth control, but there is a level of denial if one thinks that this is failsafe. I think that if you believe that because your teen didn't contract and STD or become pregnant, and you think that your level of openness and discussion made that happen-well, that's wishful thinking as well.

If you as a parent want to actively encourage your child to have sex as a 13-19 y/o, then be realisitic. I'm not talking about not being accepting-I'm talking about the posters who seem to feel that good parents encourage and facilitate sex-beyond discussion, acceptance, assistance with access to BC/ appropriate health care. It's not enough-your kids need to know what their lives will look like should they become pregnant, should they decide to parent, should the partner they are with walk away from them, should that partners parents want to raise the child, should they choose not to continue the pregnancy. They should have an awareness of what adoption is, what the adoption triad is about, what it means over the span of a lifetime to have a child you aren't raising, what grief looks like.........

OK-sounds dramatic, but it's the reality. Happens every day, and people work through it. For those of you who think the adolescent brain is the same as an adult brain..have you sat with a young teen facing any of these issues? 14 or 15 doesn't process the way 25 does- sorry. The 30 y/0 parent surely is processing very differently from their teen. Many kids with great relationships with their parents, and access to BC, face these issues.

I'm not anti teen sexuality, because that's silly. But I am in favor of being honest about the whole picture if you are going to actively promote your teen having sex. I guess that I felt this needed to be said because it seems that those of us who have some concerns are being labeled negatively and I just don't think that's accurate. I think the conversation has become anecdotal and overly simplistic.


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## amnesiac (Dec 28, 2001)

I guess that I understand that there may be times when my kids make poor choices & that my job is to provide them with all the information & tools they might need in order to make good choices. I also understand that some of the things I think are poor choices might not actually be poor choices in the long run.

I know that realistically they have & will continue to have sexual contact. So keeping that dialogue open, offering all the information & safety tools possible, keeping a non-judgemental attitude and trusting them to make their own decision is what works for us.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> From the link: "But the findings from brain imaging show the brain takes much longer to mature and *doesn't fully mature till about 25".*
> 
> If this is true, many of the moms hanging out here on Mothering do not have fully mature brains. What should we do? Make all their choices for them? Tell them their opinions about their own lives don't matter? Treat them like those of us who are over 25 know more?


I've also been confused about this as well. Not just here, in this conversation, but in general. Because the people I generally hear relating this scientific information to not "allowing" individuals to become sexuallly active until "later" never seem to say that they shouldn't be able to join the military or sign other contracts (things that have long term, possibly negative, side effects) until "later." In fact, since doing something like joining the military is 100% guaranteed to change your life while having sex is not guaranteed to join your life, shouldn't people concerned about making decisions before 18-25 be more concerned with that?


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Stormbride said
Quote:


> I had more sex drive at 15 than I've had in my entire adult life, and I spent a whole lot of time in a state of fairly severe frustration. It was distracting and annoying, and if I could do it over again, I'd probably have more sex, not less.


I'm glad you said this, because I completely agree. If I could go back in time, I'd have more sex at that age, and I would have started younger. That doesn't mean that when my kids hit a certain age I'm going to say, "You seem frustrated - go get laid already!" but if they come to me agonizing over whether they should or not, I'd assure them that sex is not that big a deal - if you want to do it, do it and be safe about it with someone who also wants to be doing it. If you don't want to, don't. But it's not something to stress over - at least not in my life.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
> 
> I've also been confused about this as well. Not just here, in this conversation, but in general. Because the people I generally hear relating this scientific information to not "allowing" individuals to become sexuallly active until "later" never seem to say that they shouldn't be able to join the military or sign other contracts (things that have long term, possibly negative, side effects) until "later." In fact, since doing something like joining the military is 100% guaranteed to change your life while having sex is not guaranteed to join your life, shouldn't people concerned about making decisions before 18-25 be more concerned with that?


I agree - I think the whole "brain maturity" thing is ridiculous. Is there any evidence that a 25 or 30 year old brain is actually more "mature" (whatever that means) as opposed to just _different_? I can't imagine that there's any evolutionary advantage to going through puberty and then abstaining from sex for the next 10-15 years.


----------



## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karne*
> 
> I think it's great to encourage two forms of birth control, but there is a level of denial if one thinks that this is failsafe. I think that if you believe that because your teen didn't contract and STD or become pregnant, and you think that your level of openness and discussion made that happen-well, that's wishful thinking as well.


Nothing is fail-safe, but the stats I've seen show pregnancy rates for women using both condoms and the pill correctly and consistently are very, very low... I get a rate of 6 in a million per year using stats for perfect use and assuming that the two variables are independent (i.e., condom failure rate is not influenced by and does not influence oral contraception failure rate). For me, that falls into the category of not worth worrying about... although we have talked about what would happen if she got pregnant unintentionally, too, and her options. And yeah, I do believe that the way I dealt with this issue at least somewhat influenced the outcome...
Quote:


> If you as a parent want to actively encourage your child to have sex as a 13-19 y/o, then be realisitic. I'm not talking about not being accepting-I'm talking about the posters who seem to feel that good parents encourage and facilitate sex-beyond discussion, acceptance, assistance with access to BC/ appropriate health care


.

Do you mean allowing kids to have sex in their homes? Because I don't see anyone saying parents should be actually encouraging kids to have sex - to me, that's being way too involved in your kid's sex life. It's not my body so it's not my choice. The OP was accused of encouraging her kid to have sex because she permitted it in her home, but she didn't see it as encouraging... do you, then?


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

Just going off of what DH and I will do. We are far from that stage but we have our minds set on certain things. For us a lot of outside factors play a part in our choices like personal beliefs and things of that nature.

We will promote waiting for marriage or in a long term relationship out of high school. But also be very open about safe sex. I will take my daughter to be put on birth control if she feels she is ready. Condoms not so much because I feel if you think you are mature enough to have sex then you are mature enough to go buy them yourself. Either way we will be very open like my parents were with me. Even though I did go to Planned Parenthood and put myself on birth control. So if DD takes that path so be it at least she is being smart.

Now on to sleepovers. Not gonna happen unless there is a reason like bad weather or something of that nature and not in the same room. I feel that kids/teens are not emotionally ready to deal with the aftermath of sex. We will not allow them to be alone in a room with a door closed. They can be sneaky and still do it in our house but I better not find out because there will be consequences.

I always wanted to wait till marriage or till I found the one. Even though I married DH (my first) I still wish I would have waited. He lost his at 12 and was with many others before me and even he says now that he wishes he would have waited. But we are not so dumb to think that it won't/can't happen. Just not something we will encourage by allowing situations to be to easy.

I personally think knowledge is power in this type of situation in that if we(general) provide our kids with the knowledge of safe sex and the physical consequences such as pregnancy and STDs even heartache that they will make the best choice for themselves and be ready to pay the price in the event of pregnancy or an STD. Either way I want to be able to keep the communication open so they would be able to come to us. Even knowing how disappointed I would be if DD ended up pregnant as a teen.


----------



## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dar*
> 
> Quote:
> Quote:
> ...


Here is what I think-and this is just me: I think that the tone of this conversation has veered toward the idea that if you are uncomfortable with the idea of sleepovers with two teens who are sexually active together, if you are not in a place of feeling OK about providing time and space in your home for your teens to have sex with their partners, than you are rejecting of their sexuality, and minimizing the reality of your teens life choices, as well as not parenting in an empathetic and realistic fashion. These are all my words-no one else's.

I did have the impression, quite frankly, that folks did think that parents should be encouraging kids to have sex at home, and again, making space and privacy for it. I'm not there, but I don't think it makes me rejecting of my kid's sexuality. I am OK with being both accepting of my child, supportive of all aspects of BC, yet still wishing for her that she be older, and yes, perhaps mature in a way that does come with age. I really don't think that makes me a bad parent.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Wow - no sex until after graduating from college? I don't know about "forever altered", but I certainly had absolutely no interest in waiting that long (mind you, I never went to college, and I did support myself, my ex and ds1 for 10 years). I'm not sure I've ever seen a recommendation to wait that long from anyone. I can't quite wrap my brain around the thinking.
> 
> ...


I liked your post. I find the idea of waiting to be financial independent odd. One of my kids is planning on graduate school, so she could easily be 26 when she finishes college, making her older at that point than some of the people posting on this thread!

The other thing that I think is missing from some of the logic on this thread is that an opps pregnancy at any stage of life can be devastating. This falls under the "may be I'm in a weird position, but I'm 46" category. I've know women who were married and had kids and felt totally tapped out and drained who either got sloppy with BC or had it fail and were devastated. Is this really so unusual? Am I the only one who's watched this happen?

I think that teaching our kids how to control their fertility is a life skill. It's one they will still need after college and after marriage. Most people want to have more sex than the number of children they can care for.

(And I don't think that any one is talking about "encouraging" teens to have sex. Rather, creating an environment that fosters honesty and access to health care. I do believe my kids are safer because they will always have full access to health care with no judgment.)


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## Bellabaz (Feb 27, 2008)

I see it as more respecting your daughter as an emerging adult who has control over certain aspects of her life. I live in Europe( and in reference to the article, have spent time in the Netherlands and have dutch friends). Now I by no means know all of the teens in Europe and there are I am sure plenty of parents who don't allow romantic sleepovers. But those I know felt like it was a responsibilty they were given. Their parents trusted them (and the partners who were usually not just a new fling but an ongoing relationship for at least 6 months) and respected them enough to make responsible choices. It made them realize it was important to take this part of their health and development seriously. Now mine are still little, but I hope to follow a similar approach. I guess we will see in 12 or so years =)

I do agree however that the other parents need to be taken into consideration. If the other family is not on board it could lead to serious rifts and at the more extreme end, legal issues.


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## amnesiac (Dec 28, 2001)

I'm not a fan of sleepovers anyhow so the biggest part of that for me is just that it's a sleepover not necessarily that it's a girlfriend. I do think that the other parents are certainly an important consideration. I know my ds is educated & has access to the things he needs but his gf's parents are not so open. Because of that, I tend to be a little more conservative in an effort to help protect her.


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eclipse*
> 
> I can't imagine that there's any evolutionary advantage to going through puberty and then abstaining from sex for the next 10-15 years.


True, but our society has changed and is no longer in step with how evolution would lead us to time things. Our social, family and economic structures no longer assume that girls will marry shortly after puberty. Until relatively recently in history it was assumed that daughters would marry during adolescence and become financially dependent on their husbands. Then the couple would assume responsibility for children born to them. Now adolescents usually remain financially dependent on their parents until late teens/early twenties and do not assume basic financial independence (renting or owning and maintaining their own home, buying their own food, paying their own bills) either as an individual or as part of a couple until some time in their twenties. Of course there are exceptions but that is generally the way it goes in North America today.

Evolution may be an important aspect of this discussion but it is pretty meaningless outside of the social context of the people we are discussing.


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

I won't forbid or encourage my kids to do anything but I do see it as an important part of my job to help them take on more and more responsibility for their own lives so that they can enjoy those lives more fully. Just like I taught them to tie heir own shoes and helped them learn to read and brush their teeth and figure out how they want to choose their friends, I see it as part of my job to navigate questions like these. I owe it to them to be straight with them and tell them that even with the best contraception, pregnancy is always a possible outcome of sex and that if they make that choice then they need to assume responsibility for any possible outcomes.

My son has a cell phone with a pay as you go set-up. Every month he buys a phone card to top it up and if he uses up all the time, he has to come up with the money to get it going again or do without the cell phone until he has the money again. Why? Because his dad and I are simply not in the financial position to be able to ever handle a surprise $400 cell phone bill and neither is ds. We can't assume that financial risk. Same thing with credit cards - why take on something you cannot handle? Get a credit card if you wish but until ds can handle at least maintaining a minimum payment, we cannot back him up if he gets in over his head. I cannot see why I would be okay with him being sexually active and potentially creating a new life if he can't even cover a basic cell phone bill some months. It isn't that I want him to deny his sexuality but as someone said earlier in the thread, as great as sex an be it is only sex and it isn't like if his parents say 'figure out another way to get that need met' he will be deprived for life. Sex is not, for most of us, a once in a lifetime opportunity. Unless he and his partner can imagine a plan for what they would do just in case they got pregnant then I can't see supporting taking the risk. Dh and I had ds while dh was in grad school and money was tight but we did have our own place and a means to support ourselves. We figured it out and made it work and didn't need our parent's houses, food and financial support to make it possible for us to have a safe and enjoyable sexual relationship. I certainly do not think that sex is for procreation only but as long as it is a possible outcome then I don't see any reason to pretend it is no big deal. Dh and I have decided that we are not prepared to have any more children. Why would I support one of my children to potentially bring another child into the family when they aren't anywhere close to being ready to providing shelter, food and support to a partner and child?

I have known several people who have had babies when they weren't financially 'ready' and some of them have made a good life - but I have also known many who were overwhelmed by their circumstances and who wish they hadn't put themselves in that position at that time in their lives.


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## SuburbanHippie (Aug 29, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
> 
> I've also been confused about this as well. Not just here, in this conversation, but in general. Because the people I generally hear relating this scientific information to not "allowing" individuals to become sexuallly active until "later" never seem to say that they shouldn't be able to join the military or sign other contracts (things that have long term, possibly negative, side effects) until "later." In fact, since doing something like joining the military is 100% guaranteed to change your life while having sex is not guaranteed to join your life, shouldn't people concerned about making decisions before 18-25 be more concerned with that?


Well, then you met your first one. I don't think 18 year olds should be running off and joining the military. I certainly cannot stop the military from taking them in though. I will guide my own children toward college instead of military service however.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eclipse*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I suppose if you wanted to use a generic term like different to describe it then that would certainly work. Their brains seek particular stimuli and they tend to not make the best decisions based on those desires. I can't explain it any other way without getting incredibly technical. I don't think there is an evolutionary advantage, but one could certainly say there is a social advantage like not getting pregnant or contracting a sexually transmitted disease.


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## koby58 (Jun 5, 2009)

I've only read parts of this thread. DD1 is a lesbian and has been dating the same girl for - gosh, almost five years now. DD2 has been dating the same boy for a year and a half.

Are they both sexually active? Yes. Neither one has their significant other sleepover. (DD1 will sleep over at her girlfriends house though.) However, we're talking about teenagers and the possibility of pregnancy so I'll just talk about DD2.

Her boyfriend is not allowed to sleep over for multiple reasons, the main two being: I'm not comfortable with the idea and her boyfriends parents are very strict Indians (who at this point still refuse to acknowledge their relationship). That being said, they would never allow their son to stay over and I don't believe in lying to parents about the location of their children. Even if I was okay with it, I know they wouldn't be. I know for prom there will be a large boy-girl sleepover at someones house and I'm okay with that.

On that note: Yes, I know they're having sex. I took DD2 to get birth control. I had multiple conversations with her about what it means to be safe (condoms and birth control) and what she will do in college if her and her boyfriend don't continue their relationship regarding safe sex. One of her friends had a pregnancy scare earlier this year (the girl is not on b.c. because she doesn't want to have to tell her mom she is having sex) and DD2 came home extremely freaked out. I was the one who was there when she came home with her friend and the test. That was an extremely new experience for all three of us.

Do I encourage her sex life? No. I do know that he is there when I'm not and she is at his house when she's not supposed to be. I know they're having sex. I also know that they're being safe and using two different kinds of protection. DD2 has been sick lately and on some medications that counteract with the birth control she is on. She was the one who told me this and then informed me that until the birth control was working again and she was off her medicine she wouldn't be having sex because 'just condoms' isn't safe enough for her anymore.

Do I believe DD2 is mature enough to be having sex? Both her and her boyfriend are mature kids who are in all honors classes and even with multiple extra curriculars have maintained high GPA's. I think that age matters to a certain extent - not age of consent necessarily (17 here) but the age at which you can say 'I'm ready to take this next step and I've taken precautions against what could happen to stop myself from getting an STD/pregnant/etc.'


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuburbanHippie*
> 
> Well, then you met your first one. I don't think 18 year olds should be running off and joining the military. I certainly cannot stop the military from taking them in though. I will guide my own children toward college instead of military service however.
> 
> I suppose if you wanted to use a generic term like different to describe it then that would certainly work. Their brains seek particular stimuli and they tend to not make the best decisions based on those desires. I can't explain it any other way without getting incredibly technical. I don't think there is an evolutionary advantage, but one could certainly say there is a social advantage like not getting pregnant or contracting a sexually transmitted disease.


My point was that expecting adolescents to work against 1000's of years of evolution is expecting something very, very difficult from them - and something that it is unrealistic to expect on a large scale (meaning, I know there are people who wait until they're much older despite it being difficult, or people who wait for whom it wasn't difficult at all). So, to me, supporting (not encouraging) sexual expression in the safest and healthiest ways makes the most sense. Taking a "I know they're probably going to do it but I'd better not find out about it" approach, like some people seem to be suggesting, doesn't seem to accomplish anything except make it hard for a teenager to come to their parents if something comes up that they could use guidance on.


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## treeoflife3 (Nov 14, 2008)

Not allowing sleepovers doesn't have to translate to 'I know they are probably doing it but I'd better not find out.' You can know your kids are having sex and accept it without issue at all and still not allow bed sharing sleepovers.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treeoflife3*
> 
> Not allowing sleepovers doesn't have to translate to 'I know they are probably doing it but I'd better not find out.' You can know your kids are having sex and accept it without issue at all and still not allow bed sharing sleepovers.


I wasn't implying that it does. I was responding to the "people shouldn't have sex until their brains are fully mature at approximately age 25" line of argument. I think people are comfortable with what they're comfortable with. I don't know if I would be allowing sleep overs where I knew sex would likely be happening. My oldest is 10, so I have a bit of time to figure all that out. I'd be more likely to disallow it because I'm not terribly fond of anyone staying the night than for any other reason, though.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eclipse*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


But the implication in this thread has been that if you won't allow romantic sleepovers, or you don't feel comfortable providing space and private time for your child to have sex at home, then you are in denial about their sexuality and not a supportive parent. Several folks, including me, have stated that it's entirely possible to be Pro/welcoming birth control, have an open relationship with your child, help facilitate their needs around BC...and yet wish for caution with regard to pursuing sexual relationships. It isn't either/or.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shantimama*
> 
> True, but our society has changed and is no longer in step with how evolution would lead us to time things. Our social, family and economic structures no longer assume that girls will marry shortly after puberty. Until relatively recently in history it was assumed that daughters would marry during adolescence and become financially dependent on their husbands. Then the couple would assume responsibility for children born to them. Now adolescents usually remain financially dependent on their parents until late teens/early twenties and do not assume basic financial independence (renting or owning and maintaining their own home, buying their own food, paying their own bills) either as an individual or as part of a couple until some time in their twenties. Of course there are exceptions but that is generally the way it goes in North America today.
> 
> Evolution may be an important aspect of this discussion but it is pretty meaningless outside of the social context of the people we are discussing.


Maybe that plays a part in my perspective - I was completely self supporting at 18, and in fact sending money home to my family, not expecting my family to support me. That may be why I find the infantalizing of teens ridiculous.


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## KaylaBeanie (Jan 27, 2009)

Dangit, the quotes didn't work but happyhippie posted that guys hate condoms. Huh?







Every male I know uses condoms religiously, every single time, happily and at their own insistence.

I just feel the need to post again that I had sex as a teenager. I used birth control every single time. I went to the OBGYN for STD testing. I didn't pregnant. I just don't buy that teenagers are so immature that they can't possibly handle having sex without this huge risk of pregnancy or STDs. My mom always spoke frankly about the importance of protection, so when the time came I protected myself. I also wasn't some brilliant teenager, I was pretty average in terms of maturity. I have very positive memories of my sexual experiences, and I can't imagine saying to my kids "hey, I had safe sex as a teenager. It was really fun and I don't regret it at all. But you definitely shouldn't do it." I saw the risks my peers were taking, and I am so happy my boyfriend's parents let us sleep over together and provided a place for us to be alone so we could have safe sex. I'm glad my parents let me sleep over. It removed any risk of getting caught up in the moment in a car without a condom.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I'm in Europe.

I wouldn't be too worried about it. If my DD's had been in a relationship for a significant period (6months+), were over the age of consent (16 where i am), and i liked their partner (which seems arbitrary i know, but i wouldn't want a friend of theirs i really disliked staying over either!) i wouldn't mind if they had overnight sleepovers together.

I was not allowed to have sleepovers when i was a teen. I was viciously raped by a BF (i was 14, he was 20) who was all too ready to provide and "alternative safe place" for us to be alone together. I think girls especially are safer on their own turf.

When i had DD1 she was an oops, i was using NFP, and she changed my life forever. I was 25. Ironically when i was a teen i would NEVER have been stupid enough to rely on NFP, i used BCP and condoms every time.

A close friend when i was a kid got pregnant at 15 and had the baby. She and the father aren't together anymore (their DD is 15 now!) but they continue to co-parent very successfully. She is a paediatrician. It certainly made becoming a doctor harder for her, but it didn't make it impossible. I guess i don't see babies as the death-knell of life. I'd rather my DD's grow up knowing they have the strength to do whatever they want with their lives, overcome obstacles and enjoy themselves than to be fearful that a bump in the road will sent them straight to misery, poverty and failure. Sure, it's probably better to put off having kids until you're finished high school, but you CAN finish highschool at any time. I mean, when i was at uni 30% of my class were over 40 and one lady was 72. Imagine SHE'D put off having kids until she'd finished her education!


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## treeoflife3 (Nov 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaylaBeanie*
> 
> Dangit, the quotes didn't work but happyhippie posted that guys hate condoms. Huh?
> 
> ...


yeah, the guys I knew all insisted on condoms as well, although I knew girls who knew different guys who didn't like using condoms. for me though, I don't mind saying 'oh, well that's too bad.. lets go mini golfing instead then.'

With that said though, while the guys I knew happily used condoms every time they had vaginal sex, they didn't all understand why condoms are still important during oral sex. Most of the girls I knew didn't understand protection during cunnilingus is a good idea, or even EXISTS either. I think that is where the real risk is. Most teens know birth control and condoms are important if you don't want a baby and will use it if they have access to it and aren't taught to feel shame buying condoms but they forget that oral sex spreads STDs especially if you aren't using protection.

Of course, I knew a lot of people who would use condoms every time... but used them incorrectly. They failed to check exp dates or make sure the air bubble was still there (condoms really shouldn't be stored in a compressed wallet... I personally kept mine in a hard retainer case to keep them safe) or leave room at the top to hold the semen or roll them down far enough or pull out right away holding the bottom to prevent leaking. So that's another issue... less that they refuse to use them and more that they don't understand HOW to use them.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaylaBeanie*
> 
> Dangit, the quotes didn't work but happyhippie posted that guys hate condoms. Huh?
> 
> ...


Well. . .I have never liked condoms. And no guy I've ever asked about them have particularly cared for them (and I sort of think we do teens a huge disservice with the whole "it doesn't dull sensation" line that so many sex ed classes feed them, because IME, it's not true. For me, sex feels better without condoms) - however. . .I never, ever had a guy try to convince me not to use one. They were usually the ones whipping them out. The general consensus was always "yeah, it would be nice to not to have to use them. But we're not stupid." I'm sure there are guys out there (and girls) who pressure the other person not to use protection, but I never ran into one.


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## Calliope84 (Aug 19, 2010)

My mom never talked about it with me.. made it seem shameful and at the same time constantly cautioned us about "ruining our lives by getting pregnant." She drilled it into us that she didn't want us to be like her - "just" a housewife because to this day I think she feels unfulfilled. She was just cautioning me the other day to do something with myself so I don't wake up when I am 40 and realize I haven't done anything and my kids don't need me anymore. My sister and I both waited until after age 18, but then I know we both did dumb stuff at times. Then I had to figure out that having babies does not equal ruining one's life. I think my sister still feels that way about kids and motherhood.

I obviously don't want to tell my kids the stuff my mom told me, but a lot of the girls I know that got pregnant very young had parents who were permissive about it or didn't seem to care or talk about sex. That dutch study is really interesting, though. To be honest, I do not think teenagers are usually ready to do the right things all the time when it comes to drinking and driving, drugs and sex. No matter how intelligent or mature you think they are, you should know they will likely take risks. Of course, so do lots of people in their 20s. I don't know what the right answer is, but I think most of us did dumb risky stuff, too when we first started dating and everything. (But maybe it is more related to personality and upbringing? There are still lots of adults who do dumb things like drink and drive and cheat on their partners with no protection....)

On the other hand... We watched this pastor Mark Gungor who does Laugh your way to a Better Marriage and in one of his talks he says that a lot of men used to be ready to get married at 18 and raise a family. They were more mature and more responsible. He thinks it is because they used to be raised that way and were given responsibilities from a very young age. I tend to agree with that. A lot of kids graduating high school know nothing about actually living life (unless they are lucky and have awesome parents!) I couldn't cook, clean, sew, balance a checkbook, write a budget or do a lot of other things when I went out into the world on my own. My parents seemed to think all that stuff wasn't very important or something. I think my mom didn't want to teach us that stuff and just wanted us to go be career women or something.


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## Calliope84 (Aug 19, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoBecGo*
> 
> I'm in Europe.
> 
> ...


I like this response.  Having support, too, if a younger woman gets pregnant is probably a huge part of how successful she will be later in achieving what she wants to achieve. I will say I use FAM (NFP, pretty much) and it is a pretty perfect method... IF you follow the signs (temps, discharge, cervix). I chose to ignore the rules and take a risk and I got pregnant!


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## Sharon RN (Sep 6, 2006)

This has made for a very interesting thread and discussion. My DS#1 is 11 1/2, so I'm going to be facing this issue very soon.

I think we (and that's a collective we, not anyone in particular) need to be honest with ourselves. We can talk all day about risks, and pregnancy, and diseases, but in the end, most people are just plain uncomfortable thinking about their children having sex. Having been raised with the whole "Madonna/Whore" dichotomy, I can fully admit to my own hang ups with the idea that someday, probably VERY SOON, my ds will be doing some of the things I've done in bed. And I've enjoyed them! But I was taught not to. My mother lied to me and said that my father was the only man she had ever been with, and I found out it was a lie because she had been married to another man as a teenager. I found her divorce decree and she admitted it. But she had always held up this idea that waiting until marriage for sex was the only way. It really affected the trust in our relationship.

Lots of posters are comparing sex to drugs and alcohol, but I suggest a different comparison. Driving.

So, most teenagers (even ours) will start driving around the age of 16. It's risky. There is a (high) chance of death or life-long disability. There is a chance of litigation. There is a chance that through no fault of their own, even if they do everything right, they will be involved in an accident. However, we (collective we) don't run around saying that everyone should only drive when they can accept every consequence of driving. We don't make people wait until their married, or a college graduate. We let teenagers drive, even if the hours and rules are limited.

So what do we do as parents? We make our children take driver's ed. We make them watch scary news stories about car accidents. We show them statistics about drinking and driving, and tell them that they can always call us for a ride for any reason. Then we hand the keys over, clutch our hearts, say a prayer, and watch them drive away because we realize our children are becoming more adult, and less child.

Sex is different- it's intimate, it's private, it's so good, but it's bad, too, at least that's what we've been taught. We are afraid of the risks of disease and pregnancy, but I think we are really just freaked out about the idea that our children will be having sex. I know I am freaked out by it. So many people on this thread have said, "Well, when I was a teenager I was doing XYZ, but my ds/dd shouldn't!" I bet a lot of our parents said the exact same thing about us!

Teenage sex has risks. Teenage driving has risks, many even greater risks. But teenage driving is culturally acceptable, and may even be necessary in some circumstances. Teenage sex is NOT culturally acceptable, yet is still going to happen. It is fine to have values, and try to instill those values into your children. We want to protect them. But, we cannot control them, especially when they become teenagers. So, we should do what we do when they learn to drive- teach them what they need to know, try to mitigate the risks, and make sure they know we are available if anything bad happens. But I think we need to accept that the majority of teenagers will have sex, as they have done for centuries.

As for co-ed sleepovers- right now, my gut says no. Not only do I have my own hang-ups I'm working on, I'd be afraid of some girl's father coming and kicking my butt! But every day I'm working on my own feelings and concerns about my ds reaching sexual maturity, and I hope that I give him the proper sexual education and tools to protect himself.

And then I'll watch him leave for a date, clutch my heart, say a prayer, and remind myself that he is more adult, and less child. Even though he'll always be my baby.


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## feral007 (Apr 26, 2011)

LOL I was just chuckling over Calliope 84's remark about the 72 yo at uni and my son (18 yo) asked what I was laughing about. Then he said 'You never stop learning anyway.'

I skipped about 4 pages of this as there are so many posts. But I guess I'd say that I have 3 teenagers. 2 are now 18 yo. They haven't had girlfriends sleep over - well not their own anyway! We live out of town so kids often come for a whole w/e or several days in the holidays. When the kids were around 15 yo the girls slept up my end of the house and I did torch patrols ad hoc.

When they were all 17 or so I stopped. I would give them my 'midwife lecture' ie I don't want to see any of you in my office in the next few months is that quite clear?

I decided I couldn't be expected to be birth control for teens whose parents I'd never met - and who were more than happy for their teens to sleepover with their b/f's at my house.

I'm pleased to say that no one got p/g - not mine, not any one else's. I have had lots of discussions about teenage pregnancy and no its not the end of your life, but it does change it for both teenagers.

I haven't been asked for overnight sleepovers by my boys, but I'd prob have said yes if they were going out together for a while. We've discussed often enough about commitment and sex, and sex and the morning after pill, as well as drinking/drink spiking, and watching out for your friends - or even if you don't know a girl and you see someone spike their drink. I just think talking about things is the way to go. I'd tell them I felt 'odd' about them having a partner stay over, but let's face it now they are 'technically adults' do they need to ask?

Asking teens what they think about things tho is really really interesting. They have some great ideas about all this stuff that concerns them. I've heard some interesting views raised by my teens friends. And by my teens. If you just listen to media you would think all teens are having sex and teenage p/g's and std's. But if you listen to the teens they have their head on pretty straight most of the time. Ali


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## JellyMomma (May 16, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sharon, RN*
> 
> Lots of posters are comparing sex to drugs and alcohol, but I suggest a different comparison. Driving.
> 
> So, most teenagers (even ours) will start driving around the age of 16. It's risky. There is a (high) chance of death or life-long disability. There is a chance of litigation. There is a chance that through no fault of their own, even if they do everything right, they will be involved in an accident. However, we (collective we) don't run around saying that everyone should only drive when they can accept every consequence of driving. We don't make people wait until their married, or a college graduate. We let teenagers drive, even if the hours and rules are limited.


 Excellent point! I'm terrified to see my baby learning to drive...much more scared of that than the thought of her having sex.


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## feral007 (Apr 26, 2011)

Quote:


> Excellent point! I'm terrified to see my baby learning to drive...much more scared of that than the thought of her having sex.


Oh yes, I agree. I can't remember what the discussion was about something to do with my daughter who is 13 yo and something someone said 'Isn't that dangerous?' And I replied - Well she has to sit in the car with her twin brothers who are learning to drive - now THAT'S dangerous! Ali


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## KaylaBeanie (Jan 27, 2009)

My kids can have safe sex once they're the age of consent (16), but they're NEVER driving! Just the thought terrifies me!


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## Millie Ivy (Dec 8, 2001)

Your dad sounds awesome!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SithLadyFred*
> 
> I was raised by my father and I was allowed to have a boyfriend sleep over.
> 
> ...


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sharon, RN*
> 
> Lots of posters are comparing sex to drugs and alcohol, but I suggest a different comparison. Driving.
> 
> So, most teenagers (even ours) will start driving around the age of 16. It's risky. There is a (high) chance of death or life-long disability. There is a chance of litigation. There is a chance that through no fault of their own, even if they do everything right, they will be involved in an accident. However, we (collective we) don't run around saying that everyone should only drive when they can accept every consequence of driving. We don't make people wait until their married, or a college graduate. We let teenagers drive, even if the hours and rules are limited.


However with driving if a parent feels their child is not mature enough to accept the responsibility of driving they can make them wait. I know for us driving is a privilege not a right so there will be certain things tacked on like good grades and some other things before getting a permit will even be allowed.

There are risks in everything a person does and even as adults we are not 100% ready to deal with certain things. But for myself and my family there are certain things that I will impose and hope the very best that they follow just as there are things that we will not allow knowingly in our house like sleep overs.


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## JenRave (May 12, 2011)

.


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

I have 2 teen boys (16 and 15) who are sexually active with their gf's (both15) and I am also accepting of it. T

Both girls' parents also know their daughters are involved with my sons (we have talked) and they also are ok with it. My boys are frequently allowed to spend the night at the girls' houses and the girls are also allowed to stay overnight with myboys. They all are very good about using bc and are all very responsible kids with good grades in school. I do not feel that I am doing anything wrong by allowing the kids to be responsible about sex in our house. In fact, I think it is a healthy attitude to take. I am sure some of you in here will disagree, but please don't preach to me about it, because my opinion isn't going to change. I hope other parents feel the same way that I do about the teen sex question.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> 
> But WHY is it disrespectful? Is it disrespectful when you and your partner have sex in the house where your children live? What exactly is disrespectful to you when somebody else who also lives in the family home has sex?


#1 they are children #2 it's MY house that I pay for. If they are adults and paying some rent then they can discuss the potential of having their long term partners having sleepovers.


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## sharon71 (May 27, 2005)

As a mother of 3 girls with my oldest being almost 17 I'm am accepting of the possibility that she may have sex as a teen and I would much prefer her to do so in a safe place such as her home than say the back seat of a car,a sleazy hotel room,outside in the dirt somewhere,etc. I don't in anyway think that this in anyway condones or encourages her having sex any more than providing contraception and information about STD's etc does. My DD asked for BC almost a yr ago because she started dating her boyfriend exclusively and wanted to be protected if they decided to become sexually active however that day still has not happened as neither are ready.


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## ChitownTracy (Oct 6, 2011)

.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I know lots of adults that apparently do not qualify to be adults... or have sex...

I think it's ridiculous to make a blanket statement over who is and who is not ready for sex. Both my Grandmothers got married at 13... They kind of had great lives. My mothers mom was a club singer and I have one of her "records" it's all in spanish dang her! And the other was a moonshiners daughter! She ran moonshine through the carolina mountains! They held jobs so I guess 13 was fine. Kind of laughing inside right now.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChitownTracy*
> 
> here's my .2 cents. Teens are not emotionally ready for sex. They are still processing who they are... Especially teens who are still being treated like teens- meaning if you are ready to have sex, you are ready to also contribute to the house- (make dinner, working a job or volunteering) if you are participating in an action that could result in your becoming a parent...then you need to be ready to accept that responsiblity.
> 
> ...


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## ChitownTracy (Oct 6, 2011)

\.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Of course 13 is different now. We did that though, living longer safer healthier lives. We've kept your young younger mentally and emotionally. There is no way I could have run moonshine, or have been found singing in a nightclub along the border at 13. I think one was even pregnant at 13. So I don't know. I do know you really can't say what is for one will be for all others. Some kids are not ready... but who are we really to judge. Did our parents realize how well we could get on without them until we did it? Having sex at a young age not knowing everything you need to know is a terrible thing. However a kid with all the tools and understanding will possibly make better choices. My tools were the fear of god and my MOTHER! I knew nothing, absolutely nothing. She thought that if I knew about it all then I was being given the go ahead to do what ever I wanted.

Thanks MOM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChitownTracy*
> 
> I'm glad your grandma has had a great life,that's awesome!
> 
> 13 now and then are very different...right?


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## ChitownTracy (Oct 6, 2011)

.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChitownTracy*
> 
> you are right, I was wrong to generalize.
> 
> ...


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChitownTracy*
> i will make sure my child knows how to cook, fill out a job application, do their laundry...and (begin) to take responsibility of their life. FOR ME, if my child is going to participate in something that could conceive another human, i want to make sure they can take care of themselves first. For me sex is an act that should carry weight- it should be emotionally connecting for 2 mature souls.


Your entire point is based on the belief that parents can control when their offspring become sexually active. Parents clearly do not have that control.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Your entire point is based on the belief that parents can control when their offspring become sexually active. Parents clearly do not have that control.


That's not what I got. She said,

Quote:


> Before I let my child have a sleepover w/ SO or encourage sex etc,


It didn't seem to me she was saying parents can control it. She was answering the original question, Would she encourage her teen to have sex? Would she let her teen's partner sleep over? And those are two things that parents can actually control. Tracy went on to describe what skills she'd want her kid to be capable of prior to having sex.

Tracy, hope I got that right.


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## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtiger*
> 
> My 17yo knows that I will accept her decision when she is eady. But... I'm sorry - it's not going to be under my roof.


This. When DD or DS is 17, that is. They can have sex when they are able to deal with the consequences (pregnancy, disease, or emotional, whatever). I hope DC and I have a good enough relationship that we can discuss birth control amongst other things.


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## TranquilMind (Feb 29, 2012)

I agree. I might let him stay at the house for some reasonable reason, such as an early start to an event, but they would not be sleeping in the same bed under my roof. That is simply not a message I'm going to send, regardless of what actually might be happening. Not on my watch.


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## TranquilMind (Feb 29, 2012)

You are so right. Children - and that is what dependents ARE...CHILDREN - should not be engaging in adult behavior when they are not totally prepared for the possible consequence of pregnancy/disease.

In fact, I'm a proponent of waiting until marriage. I know, I know...a dinosaur. I just liked marrying someone whom I knew had no diseases, and we've been married 23 years so I guess it worked out.

Will my kids do it? I hope so. One will, most likely...don't know about the other, but it would be best if they get their lives in order first.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilMind*
> 
> You are so right. Children - and that is what dependents ARE...CHILDREN - should not be engaging in adult behavior when they are not totally prepared for the possible consequence of pregnancy/disease.
> 
> ...


The thing is though, i was abused from age 5, was consensually sexually active at 14 (and by then had a job and did about 50% of the housework at home since my mother was terminally ill). I am opposed to marriage and have 2 kids with different fathers. We went to the Dr to make sure we had no diseases before we became sexually active without condoms.

And i have a stable, loving home, good relationships, wonderful children and i'm really happy so i guess it worked out.

I'm not saying your version of "in order" is wrong. I'm just pointing out that your way is not the only way. If my kids wanted to remain sexually inactive until they married that would be odd (given their background) but a-ok with me. I wouldn't want my girls to go through some of the things i went through but to assume that if they DID go through some of those things it would mean they could never be satisfied, happy, successful people would be to SERIOUSLY underestimate my girls


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## Terrilane37 (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm new here but wanted to chime in on this since my daughters are 17 and 15 now. It seems like most of the posters accept the fact that their teens may be sexually active but alot of posters are uncomfortable with it happening at home. I understand that and I think parents have to parent in the manner in which they are comfortable and for some, teens having sex in the next bedroom over is not comfortable at all. I never would encourage either of my daughters to have sex but I have accepted that they are both sexually active now. Oldest is with the same bf for 2 years and youngest has been with hers for 8 months. Mine are both on bc and using condoms, and for me I'm much more comfortable allowing them weekend sleepovers at my house or their bf's house, but that's just me. Everyone has to decide this on what they are comfortable with.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

I haven't read the responses since I replied early on, but thought I would share the conversation I had with my kids. I don't recall how we got on the topic, but I said that I'd been part of a recent discussion about teens having sex, and whether it was okay for them to do it at home. And they both said that it really came down to a matter of respect. When there is mutual respect, it seemed wrong to take advantage of it. When there isn't? Well...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilMind*
> 
> You are so right. Children - and that is what dependents ARE...CHILDREN - should not be engaging in adult behavior when they are not totally prepared for the possible consequence of pregnancy/disease.
> 
> ...


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> How on earth does you and he waiting for marriage ensure that he has no diseases? Your husband didn't lie to you, but sometimes, people do lie about such things. Women have married men in the belief that they're each other's first partners, only to end up being diagnosed with an STD. There are men - still - who have the bizarre mental split where they would never have premarital sex with a potential wife, because she's a "good" girl, but would still have sex with other women, who are "just sluts". (Yes - I've met guys like this. I'm not just making it up.)


And here's another shocker -- some people aren't faithful to their spouses. One of my friends, who was a virgin when she married, divorced her husband after he gave her an STD. They'd been married for about 10 years at the time, so chances are he picked up it AFTER the wedding.


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## lesleybrooks852 (Jan 26, 2012)

I got pregnant at 18 and had my oldest at 19. My parents were very supportive, considering my mom also got pregnant young. I have an 18 yr old, a 13 yr old, and an 11 yr old (all girls.) I will not promote nor provide the opportunity for sex in my house and I don't recommend it because it makes you grow up too fast, but should any of my girls get pregnant as a teen, I will be fully supportive, stick with them through it all, and help them out so they can live their childhood to the fullest.


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