# Parents who do things differently (no "sigh")



## Chavelamomela (Sep 25, 2006)

There is another mommy in DS's school who has 3 kids. The kids are all well-adjusted and she's a caring mommy.

However, there are certain things she does that really irks me:

She send the kids (even the 18 m.o.) to school with pure junk i.e. instead of normal applesauce, she sends berry berry swirl applesauce with lots of artificial colors, etc. (And that is hardly the worst). Her toddler guzzles bottle after bottle of apple juice all day. You get the idea.

Well, it's hardly surprising that with eating habits like that, all the kids have weight problems (the mom doesn't).

And today, I saw her loading up the baby into the car with a carseat that was clearly very old and was the kind with the pull-down bar - you know, the ones that meet minimum safety standards, but most experts don't consider these safe anymore? (I think it's called an overhead shield).

Am being too judgmental? What do you do?

I am thinking of gently speaking with the mother about the carseat, but I won't touch the kids diet with a 10-foot pole.


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## Qestia (Sep 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 
There is another mommy in DS's school who has 3 kids. The kids are all well-adjusted and she's a caring mommy.

If her kids are happy and well-adjusted and her carseat does meet safety standards what exactly, is the problem?


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 
Am being too judgmental?


Yes, you are.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

I wouldn't touch the diet issues. I learn best from other people when I see from their example, not from them trying to tell me how to do something. On the other hand, I think that you could safely mention that her carseat only meets the minimal standards and that there are better ones out there for just as little money (if there are). I actually quite like it when people tell me about good products that I can buy.


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## Chavelamomela (Sep 25, 2006)

The annoying part is that when she sends junk to school, all the kids share and me (and all the other mommies) hate when our kids get such junk.

I guess this is just one of those things that we can't do anything about...


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## siennasmom (Mar 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 
Am being too judgmental?

Put yourself in her shoes: if you found out that she was posting on the internet about what an uptight parent you are, would you mind? What if she said something like, "her kids are happy and well-adjusted, but she lets them sleep in her bed! And they never get to drink juice. With habits like that, it's hardly surprising that her kids aren't like the other kids at school."

Would that bother you?


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Yeah too judgmental IMO.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Yeah, I think you'll have to leave that one alone. I don't use one now, but I really loved my pull down car seat when my 7 year old was a baby. Come to think of it, I have a friend that I saw put her daughter in one just yesterday. I would never, EVER, criticize her parenting because I know that she's good where it counts.

Just bite your tongue and improve your own parenting...there's got to be SOME room for improvement, right?

Lisa (mom to 3 wonderful children)


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## tamagotchi (Oct 16, 2005)

She probably thinks she *is* feeding her kids healthy stuff... you know, applesauce and juice, instead of twinkies and cokes.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 
There is another mommy in DS's school who has 3 kids. The kids are all well-adjusted and she's a caring mommy.

However, there are certain things she does that really irks me:

She send the kids (even the 18 m.o.) to school with pure junk i.e. instead of normal applesauce, she sends berry berry swirl applesauce with lots of artificial colors, etc. (And that is hardly the worst). Her toddler guzzles bottle after bottle of apple juice all day. You get the idea.

Well, it's hardly surprising that with eating habits like that, all the kids have weight problems (the mom doesn't).

And today, I saw her loading up the baby into the car with a carseat that was clearly very old and was the kind with the pull-down bar - you know, the ones that meet minimum safety standards, but most experts don't consider these safe anymore? (I think it's called an overhead shield).

Am being too judgmental? What do you do?

I am thinking of gently speaking with the mother about the carseat, but I won't touch the kids diet with a 10-foot pole.


In regards to the carseat, maybe she can't afford a better one?
As for the diet, I see your point, but why is the DC provider/teacher allowing food sharing to go on? This could be dangerous if dood allergies are present in any child and it simply isn't sanitary. Skip the mom and go straight to the teacher. Food, no matter how healthy, should not be shared among preschool friends.


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## Chavelamomela (Sep 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siennasmom* 
Put yourself in her shoes: if you found out that she was posting on the internet about what an uptight parent you are, would you mind? What if she said something like, "her kids are happy and well-adjusted, but she lets them sleep in her bed! And they never get to drink juice. With habits like that, it's hardly surprising that her kids aren't like the other kids at school."

Would that bother you?

nope.







:

But I do see your point.

There are issues, and then there are ISSUES. This is not one.


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## Chavelamomela (Sep 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman* 
In regards to the carseat, maybe she can't afford a better one?
As for the diet, I see your point, but why is the DC provider/teacher allowing food sharing to go on? This could be dangerous if dood allergies are present in any child and it simply isn't sanitary. Skip the mom and go straight to the teacher. Food, no matter how healthy, should not be shared among preschool friends.

I agree, but these kids are 2 y.o. They share - it's very hard to stop.

And there is a no-peanut rule.


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## SativaStarr (Jul 16, 2007)

Yes, IMHO you are being too judgmental. You say her children are happy and well adjusted, so I really dont think you have anything to criticize. She may be raising her kids differently from you, but we are all entitled to our own choices as far a childrearing so long as our children are happy, healthy and well-adjusted in the end.

About the carseat.. they do still make them like that, and while it wouldnt be your choice, as long as its not expired I dont think you have a right to criticize her.. Maybe money is an issue and it was given to her as a gift?

And about the food choices.. I can think of whole lot worse items she could be feeding her kids.. like kool-aid, ho-hos instead of applesauce and juice. They are her kids and be glad she's feeding them.. some kids arent even that fortunate.


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## Chavelamomela (Sep 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SativaStarr* 

And about the food choices.. I can think of whole lot worse items she could be feeding her kids.. like kool-aid, ho-hos instead of applesauce and juice. They are her kids and be glad she's feeding them.. some kids arent even that fortunate.

She gives them that too!

I was just using the applesauce as an example, because instead of buying normal regular applesauce, she buys the super-artificial kind.

...forget it.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

I don't think there is anything you can do.

If she didn't have a carseat then I'd really be concerned.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

If my son was being exposed to artificial colors, which affect his quality of life, at school, I would ask the school to change policy. I would provide them with some of the research on the food colorings and benzoate preservatives and help them write a letter to give to all parents about the necessity of keeping this stuff out of food sent to school that might be shared with other children.


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

Oh please. I think if you hadn't asked "Am I being too judgmental?" people would have been all over this thread agreeing with you. I'm sure most would also advise you not to say anything, definitely about the food, maybe on the carseat. I might think about telling the mom that the overhead shield seat is out of date, and did you know WalMart sells a good carseat called the Cosco Scenera for $40.

I think all of us can be judgmental in our own heads. It's only when we talk about it out loud (or post online) that it becomes a problem.


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## erin_d_a (Jun 27, 2007)

I think you are being to judgemental, but no more than I would be honestly.

I wouldn't say anything about it, but I would bring up in conversation how I love the fact that there are so many food options for kids now that we just didn't see as much a few years ago. Isn't it great that they have the natural organic applesauce in the little containers now, I love that I'm not feeding my kids extra sugar or fake colors. It isn't calling her out on it, but maybe educating her a little









And I judge other peoples parenting all the time, I think we all do. There is a difference between disapproving of the way that someone does something, and calling them out on it though.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
Oh please. I think if you hadn't asked "Am I being too judgmental?" people would have been all over this thread agreeing with you.

I don't think so -- I've noticed a major trend that when people come here to tsk tsk about the way someone else is parenting, pretty much everyone steps in and calls out the OP on being judgemental.

You're right that most people here probably *don't* think that the best way to parent is to feed junk food and use cheap carseats, but that doesn't mean they have to join in on condemning someone else for doing so. I mean, what can people really say? "Oh, what a bad mom! I'm glad we're not like her!"


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Ah, to worry about stuff like this....







:

My 3.5 y.o. (who has a feeding disorder and autism, among other things...) eats that fruity applesauce. We're thrilled. We can mix his enzymes in it. It's something that's sort of got texture to it (as in not a smooth puree...which take up about 50% of his diet...) and he actually _eats it!_ Willingly!

When you're dropping wads of cash...as in 5 digits...every year out of pocket to pay for stuff like therapy and weighted blankets, etc., you really don't sweat about stuff like "omg, is this applesauce organic and dye free?" Who cares. Bigger fish to fry, much more important stuff to worry about in the universe.

Priorities. Gotta love 'em.


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 
Am being too judgmental? What do you do?
I am thinking of gently speaking with the mother about the carseat, but I won't touch the kids diet with a 10-foot pole.

Yes, I think you are. You can tell her about the out dated carseat if you must but that's about it IMO. The other things are simply judgmental.


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## Sagesgirl (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

Am being too judgmental?
Yes.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I would talk to the teacher about food sharing- I would be having an absolute fit if my kids were getting food dyes at school. My kids really react badly to that stuff. But I'd bring it up with the teachers, not with any of the parents sending in the junk.

I'm not sure how to ask about carseat safety. She could be using a very old, expired seat and not know any better, nor have resources to replace it. Or she could have a fairly new seat that's the old style. I know I went crazy looking for an inexpensive seat that didn't have the overhead shield when DS ws a baby. Kmart didn't carry any, Babies R Us didn't carry any, and I had to schlepp out to Walmart (quite far from my house) to get one. Of course, they had a bunch of convertible seats with the shield and only one without. That was only 5 years ago.

If the seat is "clearly very old" then it may no longer be safe. Maybe you can ask the teachers at school if they could talk to her about carseat safety, or pass along information? There's probably no way to approach her directly without it coming across all wrong.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

that sort of stuff bugs me. especially the poor nutrition. those car seats are surprisingly still on the market and meet all current safety standards. and I have met people who surprisingly were looking for them. But you have to remember that minimum safety standards are still safety standards and her car seat is as safe as it needs to be for her comfort. So long as it is installed and used properly and current it would be snotty to say that it just isn't good enough.

as for the food, the only time I would speak up is she started whining about how chubby her kids are. My neighbor whines about how her children inherited their chubbiness but really all they inherited is that they eat at fast food restaurents 40+ times a month (no exaggeration)! I would also talk to the school about not allowing kids to share. it is just too dangerous these days. Preferences aside. but also it might be worth it to remind the teachers that you choose your child's food carefully and would rather them not eat anything without your permission.

If you really feel you must do something to address the car seat thing could you maybe talk to the car seat safety people and to the school and schedule some sort of after school car seat safety check (hey its for everyone convenience right







)


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

I would mention the carseat. That's an issue of child safety which I think every parent is concerned with, regardless of parenting style. As far as the food goes, as long as their are rules which keep their kids from sharing...well, the world is full of different people


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## cutekid (Aug 5, 2004)

Lots of parents love the Over the head Shields. I told my mom i wanted one of those....needless to say I know better now. My DS rides in a Raidan. They are usually cheaper than 5 point models. My DS rode in one for nearly three years, and I am sorry but I would feel judged if someone told me I needed a better carseat..a link for carseat safety or other helpful info yes. ...but just saying its not good blah blah. That doesn't help.

I would much rather a child ride in a cheap over the head shield carseat than no carseat at all.

As for diet. LOTS of parents think, juice and kids items are healthy eating. Most parents don't blink an eye at the label. My own sister was like..Sprite has fruit juice in it..its okay to drink

Just a few thoughts


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Yes, I think you are being too judgemental.

If her carseats appear to be outdated, I would consider saying something. But as far as I know, they do still make overhead shield seats, so they could be just fine.

As far as the food goes ... well, I'd tell myself she probably thinks applesauce and apple juice are healthy because they are fruit, kwim?

It's really not your place to get involved, and while I can understand not wanting to expose your kid to artificial dyes, I'd take that up with the teacher.

Even at 2, they can keep the kids from sharing. My son went to a wonderful Waldorf preschool last year with 2-4 year olds and they all sat down at the table and I never saw food sharing going on. The teachers sweetly helped each kid eat their meal.. it's quite possible and I'd take that up with the teacher.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
If my son was being exposed to artificial colors, which affect his quality of life, at school, I would ask the school to change policy. I would provide them with some of the research on the food colorings and benzoate preservatives and help them write a letter to give to all parents about the necessity of keeping this stuff out of food sent to school that might be shared with other children.

I would teach my son not to share food that other children bring to school.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mistymama* 
If her carseats appear to be outdated, I would consider saying something. But as far as I know, they do still make overhead shield seats, so they could be just fine.

.

They still make them. They aren't 'just fine'.


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## Mama2Bug (Feb 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch* 
Ah, to worry about stuff like this....







:

My 3.5 y.o. (who has a feeding disorder and autism, among other things...) eats that fruity applesauce. We're thrilled. We can mix his enzymes in it. It's something that's sort of got texture to it (as in not a smooth puree...which take up about 50% of his diet...) and he actually _eats it!_ Willingly!

When you're dropping wads of cash...as in 5 digits...every year out of pocket to pay for stuff like therapy and weighted blankets, etc., you really don't sweat about stuff like "omg, is this applesauce organic and dye free?" Who cares. Bigger fish to fry, much more important stuff to worry about in the universe.

Priorities. Gotta love 'em.

Dude. Word.

Every time I see someone post "OMG junk food!" or "Oh noes I saw a kid eating cookies and white pasta!" I cringe a little.

I feed my kid apple juice, because she will drink it. If I thought she would happily eat bright blue Barney applesauce with candy sprinkles, I would buy 2 packages. Maybe your kid will drink organic goat's milk and eat sprouted bread sandwiches. Lucky you..


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 
The annoying part is that when she sends junk to school, all the kids share and me (and all the other mommies) hate when our kids get such junk.

I guess this is just one of those things that we can't do anything about...

yes, you can do something about it. Get on the parent board, and push the agenda of the school having a policy that children are to have healthy snacks to eat and then give examples for the parents. And a policy on drinks, such as, "we expect juice once a day, and otherwise water or milk (mainstream), or a milk alternative for other drinks."

My children's school and daycare do this.


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## Justmee (Jun 6, 2005)

If the carseat is old (and not just the old style) I would definalty say something. My friend has her 4yo ds in an ancient (at least 8 years old) overhead shield carseat he is too big for. I mentioned my concern to her but she feels he "looks safer" in that rather than a booster (buying a new higher limit carseat is totoally out of the quetion). I mentioned getting a new booster for him (her booster is also one of the ancient ones with a bar across) and she said she thinks they are too expensive and the old one is "just fine" when he needs it. But I had to mention it because I know she doesn't use internet or anythying, and honestly she was really suprised a carseat *could* be unsafe. Some people just don't know


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finch
Ah, to worry about stuff like this....

My 3.5 y.o. (who has a feeding disorder and autism, among other things...) eats that fruity applesauce. We're thrilled. We can mix his enzymes in it. It's something that's sort of got texture to it (as in not a smooth puree...which take up about 50% of his diet...) and he actually eats it! Willingly!

When you're dropping wads of cash...as in 5 digits...every year out of pocket to pay for stuff like therapy and weighted blankets, etc., you really don't sweat about stuff like "omg, is this applesauce organic and dye free?" Who cares. Bigger fish to fry, much more important stuff to worry about in the universe.

Priorities. Gotta love 'em.

Dude. Word.

Every time I see someone post "OMG junk food!" or "Oh noes I saw a kid eating cookies and white pasta!" I cringe a little.

I feed my kid apple juice, because she will drink it. If I thought she would happily eat bright blue Barney applesauce with candy sprinkles, I would buy 2 packages. Maybe your kid will drink organic goat's milk and eat sprouted bread sandwiches. Lucky you..

Dude again, totally. My son drinks cups and cups of juice a day, because he will drink it!! Applesauce? HAH! My son wouldnt dream of eating it, and I have tried with those fruity things. He eats cookies/fries/processed nuggets, mcdonalds almost DAILY because...well..thats all he WILL eat!!









Maybe the lady cant afford a new car seat. Or organic, or maybe that is all her kids would eat. I think it is sweet of you to care about those children that arent even your own, but losing sleep over this issue is just a waste of time. I know mamas glare at me at the play center because my child is eating choc ice cream and they are trying to force their kids to eat celery and stuff and their kids are looking at my kid thinking id rather eat ice cream but hey, i really dont give a stuff!


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama2Bug* 
Dude. Word.

Every time I see someone post "OMG junk food!" or "Oh noes I saw a kid eating cookies and white pasta!" I cringe a little.

I feed my kid apple juice, because she will drink it. If I thought she would happily eat bright blue Barney applesauce with candy sprinkles, I would buy 2 packages. Maybe your kid will drink organic goat's milk and eat sprouted bread sandwiches. Lucky you..









: My kid is a picky eater and at this point I have relaxed my ideas if it means she eats.

To the OP, I think your heart is in the right place but yes you are being extremely judgemental, if the kids are happy and well-adjusted then she probably is doing the best she can.

Shay


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## amitymama (Nov 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
If my son was being exposed to artificial colors, which affect his quality of life, at school, I would ask the school to change policy. I would provide them with some of the research on the food colorings and benzoate preservatives and help them write a letter to give to all parents about the necessity of keeping this stuff out of food sent to school that might be shared with other children.

Seriously? Sorry, that just made me









If I received a letter from a parent about the _da-dum-DUM_ 'dangers of artificial colors' along with research on preservatives and had a finger wagged in my face for daring to expose their little Johnny to such horrors, I would laugh my butt off. Then I would tear up the letter and laugh some more. Then I would go out and buy bright blue applesauce and send my kids to school with it everyday and enjoy the thought of that parent's head exploding.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Er, I love the way everyone thinks that someone is being judgmental _only_ when the issue in question is one that that person does _not_ care much about. example: I don't care about artificial colours in food; therefore, you are being judgmental when you say that you care about them and want to do something about it that involves another parent.

I'm sure if this lady was smacking her children every day, many responses would be different. Oh, but I keep forgetting, gentle discipline is important, no matter how "difficult" one's child is. Food is not, so if you have a picky eater, no one should judge what you give your child. Right, that makes so much sense. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

If someone spanked her child in front of my child (and especially at my house) I would say something. If someone's child is feeding my child junk, I say something. I happen to be one of those mothers who is fussy about both. Sooooooorrrrryyyyyy.


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

OMG, apple juice means you're a bad mom? Relax.

You know, on MDC, people love to talk about the stuff they do that is perfect, like some sort of competition. But they also avoid talking about the stuff they don't do. Like when some newbie posts a thread asking, "What is crunchy?" and people make an impossible list of requirements they think MDC members fulfill. No one is "perfect," and maybe the mom who only feeds her child organic macrobiotic foods and has no plastic in her home and sews her own cloth diapers and rear-faces her child seats and breastfeeds until the age of 8 - that imaginary mom - maybe she emotionally warps her kids, or maybe she is just an uptight martinet.

Or maybe most of us here don't have such an issue with food.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

You're being way too judgmental. You don't know her situation at all and shouldn't be pointing your perfect fingers at her.







:

My kids drink apple juice. Probably way too much of it. But you know what? Its better than soda. There are a million things worse than apple juice. She has a carseat that isn't rated the best? You've got to be kidding me......


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
You're being way too judgmental. You don't know her situation at all and shouldn't be pointing your perfect fingers at her.







:

How do you know she does not know the situation?

We give our DD apple juice, at breakfast. Organic, not-from-concentrate apple juice.







That and whole wheat toast with butter or cream cheese. I think the OP was referring to the habit of drinking apple juice all day, which causes rotten teeth, a sweet tooth, bad eating habits, etc. And I think she was also more concerned about the food with artificial colours and the fact that it is being shared with her own kids. I don't normally interfere with what other people feed their kids but I get really annoyed when their food is given to my kid. Leaving aside the nutritional value, how do they know that my child is not allergic, or diabetic, or has some other behavioural condition affected by junk food?


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

I think the food sharing is a different subject and one that should be taken up with the staff. If a policy is in place, the parents will have to abide by it. As of now however, there seems to be no policy or no penalty for breaking it. That is their issue, not the mothers. Take it up with them.

I agree, I don't want anyone sharing their food with my children. If allergies were present that would be very bad. At the same time, I would try my hardest to teach my child not to take other peoples food. I know it can be done. My best friend has a child with diabetes, and she cannot just accept food from people or take food. At two years old she knows to say no, and doesn't try to take it because she knows it could be dangerous for her.

And I think if there were more to the story that the OP probably would have shared it already. So I assume the list of judgmental observations are all there is.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

I cannot understand how on earth any of this is your business.

You need to teach your child to eat his/her own food if you are so afraid they might eat something you don't approve of.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Thanks for reminding me how much my boy loves ho-hos! Off to the store now!

Seriously - don't we ALL have areas to improve our parenting skills w/o pointing fingers at others?


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Drinking Juice is No Better than Drinking Soda

Just an FYI. My kids drink both. Can't really police 'em once they're not underfoot 24/7.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
Drinking Juice is No Better than Drinking Soda

Just an FYI. My kids drink both. Can't really police 'em once they're not underfoot 24/7.

Thanks for the link! I knew that juice was as bad a soda in terms of the link to obesity but I had no idea about the liver damage! Very interesting...


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## Chavelamomela (Sep 25, 2006)

Okay, let me clarify:

I am not uptight. I am not crazy or intolerant of other parent's choices. I don't only give my kid sprouts and tofu (who actually can get their toddler to eat that?!). We don't eat take-out (we keep kosher, which also limits choices and means Mcdonald's isn't even an option) I just would rather he not eat foods like cake, cookies, foods full of transfats, candy, etc. Yes, I do give him treats, and he generally eats well. And I recognize that other parents are not necessarily as choosy as I am about this, and put their energies elsewhere. I am not judging anyone.

Now, as for the head-teacher in the daycare, I agree that she should have more control over the sharing...she just doesn't. She is a sweet older lady, who is very nurturing (very AP-like), compassionate, etc. But as there are a bunch of 1-2 y.o. toddler running around, often with ziplocks of crackers, cookies, etc, it is very difficult to stop the sharing. Even she hates the artificial garbage and chooses to not feed that to the kid, and instead uses the school's applesauce for that kid.

(I guess I am glad in that regard that my ds just entered the 2-3 y.o. group.)

I simply was venting and asked if it's appropriate to say something. I appreciate the honest answers and understand the consensus that it's probably not a good idea, unless the carseat is a serious safety issue (i.e. over 5 years old).

I guess i forgot how much my words would be over-analyzed and ripped apart. It's such a difference when you hear a reply like:

"I think it's very sweet that you wish you could help them be healthier and safer.

It's too bad you can't fix them all... sigh"

rather than

"yes, you are being way too judgemental"

Yes, I still enjoy MDC, and like seeing e/o's opinions. I just think everyone (collectively) over-reacted and over-judged a bit.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Don't you hate it when you get judged for being judgmental?


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 
I simply was venting and asked if it's appropriate to say something. I appreciate the honest answers and understand the consensus that it's probably not a good idea, unless the carseat is a serious safety issue (i.e. over 5 years old).

I guess i forgot how much my words would be over-analyzed and ripped apart. It's such a difference when you hear a reply like:

"I think it's very sweet that you wish you could help them be healthier and safer.

It's too bad you can't fix them all... sigh"

rather than

"yes, you are being way too judgemental"

Yes, I still enjoy MDC, and like seeing e/o's opinions. I just think everyone (collectively) over-reacted and over-judged a bit.

Why are your surprised that people answered your actual question:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 

Am being too judgmental?


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
Why are your surprised that people answered your actual question:

Oh, I think that in real life, we tend to be a lot more tactful and encouraging in our responses, even to direct questions.


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## momma-d (Feb 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 

I guess i forgot how much my words would be over-analyzed and ripped apart. It's such a difference when you hear a reply like:

"I think it's very sweet that you wish you could help them be healthier and safer.

It's too bad you can't fix them all... sigh"

rather than

"yes, you are being way too judgemental"

Yes, I still enjoy MDC, and like seeing e/o's opinions. I just think everyone (collectively) over-reacted and over-judged a bit.

true. true. The old adage "it takes a village..." would certainly apply here...that is, *if* our culture could apply it. As it stands, it wouldn't fly, simply because the majority of people aren't going to thank you for pointing out their weak spots, kwim? It is nice that you're concerned for other children...I am, too....and I have a hard time refraining from saying something when I see a child treated in a way that is harmful to them...but...I say it to my DH, who has a better ear (i.e. more accapting) for it then the parents of the child.
As far as the sharing is concerned...while I wouldn't want my child/ren getting the hands on gnarly, over-processed crap...hey, at least the children are sharing with one another. That's gotta count for something, right? As long as you keep your children eating high-quality food at home, then that's what the bulk of their intake will be...


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp* 

If someone spanked her child in front of my child (and especially at my house) I would say something. If someone's child is feeding my child junk, I say something. I happen to be one of those mothers who is fussy about both. Sooooooorrrrryyyyyy.

No need to apologize for being fussy. You have every right to be fussy about what you feed *your* kids. That's why I'm okay with taking up the sharing/bringing healthy snacks issue.

What I do find judgemental is telling other people about *their* food choices which is the issue we're discussing here I think. ETA: Especially since I don't think anyone can judge someone's diet from just watching them a few hours a day/days a week. Maybe it's true, maybe the person whose child is seen with a bottle of juice is guzzling down a gallon or more a day but OTOH maybe it's two bottles a day. One at drop-off and one at pick-up. I think it's impossible to know unless one is following the person around all day and night.

I don't think that making less than ideal food choices is equivalent to spanking.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp* 
Oh, I think that in real life, we tend to be a lot more tactful and encouraging in our responses, even to direct questions.

There is no we.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp* 
Oh, I think that in real life, we tend to be a lot more tactful and encouraging in our responses, even to direct questions.

Possibly.

But what some see as being "tactful," I call "sugar-coating."

It's part of the reason I like online forums. People are usually more honest, even if the truth hurts.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama2Bug* 
I feed my kid apple juice, because she will drink it. If I thought she would happily eat bright blue Barney applesauce with candy sprinkles, I would buy 2 packages. Maybe your kid will drink organic goat's milk and eat sprouted bread sandwiches. Lucky you..

This made me seriously LOL.

I agree, if the allergy and sensitivity thing is a concern, take it up with the school and/or TRY to teach your child not to accept food (I say try because I know darn well this would be near impossible with ds...). I understand getting upset about that, that's a legit health concern.

The carseat thing makes me raise an eyebrow, but the mom in me who's seen much much much worse thinks, hell, at least the kid is restrained.

As for being concerned with what this mom feed her kids in general sheerly for the sake of not agreeing with her choices, well, it's nunya. I'd tear somebody's head off if they commented on what my ds eats/doesn't eat. You don't always know the whole story from HER side either. My ds looks "normal." You'd never guess he has a feeding disorder, but indeed he does. I about turned a cartwheel yesterday when he actually _asked for_ and _ate_ a real, whole banana (cut into pieces of course).







: He wouldn't eat the ends of the banana, though, 'cause they weren't cut into perfect little banana circles...







...this is my world.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 
I simply was venting and asked if it's appropriate to say something. unless the carseat is a serious safety issue (i.e. over 5 years old).

If you decide to mention the carseat to the Mama *and you are really concerned...* offer to pay for the carseat *out of your pocket*.

Perhaps the Mama is not in a financial position to buy an appopriate car seat at this time...because what can she do with your advice if she isn't?


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

The snack sharing issue at school is just that, a snack sharing issue at school, and should be addressed with the teacher.

Quote:
"She is a sweet older lady, who is very nurturing (very AP-like), compassionate, etc. But as there are a bunch of 1-2 y.o. toddler running around, often with ziplocks of crackers, cookies, etc, it is very difficult to stop the sharing."

As far as the teacher being an older woman that doesn't have a grip on the children during snack times and that the children are running around with their food, well I won't even go there with what I think of that!

I admit that I would pull my child from any school that sent a super specific list of what they deem appropriate foods for my child. I feed my boys EVERYTHING! I feed them whole natural foods and I guess what some would consider junk...basically my boys eat everything. I can honestly say that if someone approached me because they saw my son eating a fruit roll everyday I would be less than pleased because I know that there is way more to his diet than that one snack!

As far as the seat goes, I agree that I personally wouldn't use one but as PP have mentioned, unless it looks like it could be expired I wouldn't say anything because the seat she's using is legal.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amitymama* 
Seriously? Sorry, that just made me










If I received a letter from a parent about the _da-dum-DUM_ 'dangers of artificial colors' along with research on preservatives and had a finger wagged in my face for daring to expose their little Johnny to such horrors, I would laugh my butt off. Then I would tear up the letter and laugh some more. Then I would go out and buy bright blue applesauce and send my kids to school with it everyday and enjoy the thought of that parent's head exploding.









Wow. Just....wow.

I guess you don't have one of those kids who turns into Manic Terror Child if they happen to eat one drop of artificial blue dye. Something like that makes my kid lose focus and she is a completely different child for a day or two.

I understand the need for parents to teach their kids to not eat other's food.

However...to take such offense at a letter educating parents about the very real dangers of artifical flavors and colors..? I just don't understand that.


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## dolphinkisser (Dec 26, 2003)

I would be much more worried about the ill effect on our society of parents who think that their standards are higher than others and look how everyone else is parenting rather than if the kids have a snacks that might have artificial ingredients in it or the type of carseat that they use. I really can't imagine looking into other people's car at the carseat that they use and making a judgement about them that they have low standards.That is rather arrogant. I can't imagine looking into other children's lunchboxes and worrying what kind of snack that they have. I have other things to worry about. There is a war going on...there are gangs, poverty and bullying. This snack and carseat business is just too petty.
What if this was the only carseat that they could get given their circumstance. Why can't we take the energy that we waste worrying about how 'substandard' other parents are ( with the exception of blatant abuse and neglect) and put that energy into parenting our own kids the best way that we can.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
As far as the teacher being an older woman that doesn't have a grip on the children during snack times and that the children are running around with their food, well I won't even go there with what I think of that!

Well....I didn't say anything about this at first, because I always seem to be the only mama who cares about kids running around with food.

My kids were raised to eat sitting nicely. They don't have to be quiet or solemn, but they were not allowed to run around, lie down, or be raucous during meal/snack times. I would expect the same rules at daycare.

Honestly, I think the odds of a kid choking on their food is higher than being hurt by an old-fashioned carseat.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch* 
Ah, to worry about stuff like this....







:

My 3.5 y.o. (who has a feeding disorder and autism, among other things...) eats that fruity applesauce. We're thrilled.
Priorities. Gotta love 'em.


My dd also does not eat. She is 21 months old. I would be jumping for joy if she ate the fruity applesauce full of artificial color and flavors. I would let her have cup after cup, too! Just to see her eat. I get excited if/when she eats a few bites of ice cream.







: I try not to judge, since I have no idea if there is an issue with the kids. You can't always tell just by looking. But then again, it was hard for me to not to a double take when I saw a mom feeding her 9 monthish old baby a whole lot of blue kool-aid looking stuff in a bottle last week...... Who knows, maybe it was medication of some kind.


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## Imogen (Jul 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amitymama* 
Seriously? Sorry, that just made me









If I received a letter from a parent about the _da-dum-DUM_ 'dangers of artificial colors' along with research on preservatives and had a finger wagged in my face for daring to expose their little Johnny to such horrors, I would laugh my butt off. Then I would tear up the letter and laugh some more. Then I would go out and buy bright blue applesauce and send my kids to school with it everyday and enjoy the thought of that parent's head exploding.


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## polka hop (Dec 23, 2003)

*


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## mags (May 4, 2004)

I don't think it is a matter of low standards, but maybe more of an matter of being ignorant. She thinks applesauce is healthy, so doesn't realize the swirly kind is probably not the greatest choice. I know a lot of ppl who think things are, "healthy" that are awful. Like those fruit snack things (they come in a pre-sealed baggies, are similar to gummy bears, but not as chewy), I have a friend who thinks she is very healthy, she gives her kids those fruit snacks, which are IMO basically just candy and says how healthy they are b/c they are made from juice. I've looked that nutritional info on the back of those pkgs before at the store, and it is NOT a healthy snack.

As for the car seat, I don't know about the area you live in, but where I live, ppl will use the same carseat for multiple children for over a decade. I am not exaggerating. In general I have found that in my area my DH and I are the most knowledgeable ones about carseats. Seriously, so many ppl are so clueless and the # of ppl whose carseats are not install correctly, or those who should be using car seats, but don't... it's really, really bad around here. One couple from church, cares for one of their granddaughters who is the same age as my preschooler. I happened to mention to her that target had carseats on 50% clearance. She said, "oh, I just plan to use her mom's carseat (her dd is over 20 yrs old!!!)." I kind of looked and her and said, "you mean x's carseat?" She said, "yeah." I said, you know car seats typically have a life of only six yrs, you can't use it, b/c the plastic deteriorates and becomes brittle, it is very dangerous, x's seat is over 20 yrs old! She was completely shocked. Not upset at me at all, but she honestly did not know this info and I think the thought that she had put her grandkids in danger from using old carseats really dawned on her. She told me it made sense, how she had some appliance that she loved, but after 10 yrs, the motor still worked, but the plastic deteriorated. I kind of had an idea that they did not know this, b/c a wk earlier my DH helped out with the church's rummage sale and told me that the husband had bought a really old looking, used carseat for his other grandchild. I told my DH, "why didn't you educate him about car seat safety, he obviously doesn't know???"

I honestly think that some ppl are just really clueless, and if they were aware that what they were doing was not safe/healthy for their children, they would be very upset at themselves. In cases like this, I think some gentle suggestions would work well. I'd address the car seat issue first.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I think it is nice that you are concerned. It is admirable that you want to educate. when we know better we can do better. lats face it, unsafe carseats and inadequate nutrition are things most parents just aren't aware of.

however it is possible to get carried away. i see a lot of carseat snobbery and people going over board on this forum. however if the carseat is truely unsafe and it is within your means to help her get a better one by all means do so. Outside of planing to have the carseat safety people come to a school sponsored safety day (ooooo!!! Maybe you could plan and carry out a whole saftey and health fair at your school. get people in the community to come and talk about nutrition and care seat safety etc. that way you are not signalling anyone out but ioffer a chance for evryone to share in the education you have been fortunate enough to recieve) there isn't much yu can do.

It would probabl;y not be recieved well if you approached her directly but I think you can inform her in a sweet and non-judgmental way. talk about your experiances and how it relates to her comments, for example "I heard the safest carseats were 5 point harness modles, when we needed a new carseat I did a lot of research, if you would like I could share what I found and save you some time" be sure to include some cheaper but safe models (under $100). or "that applesauce looks really fun. Its good that they are eating so much fruit! My kids can't eat that stuff though. it makes them crazy. i didn't believe it was the food coloring at first but we did some experimenting and it looked like that really was the culprit. The more research i did the more horrified i was. we have tried to completely elliminate it. its tough though." A good alternative to that stuff is the fruit squeezes. it is apple sauce, it is prganic and has no added sugar and even better from a kids perspective it comes in a tube (good frozen or regular) and is PURPLE (natrually of course). It is spendy though.

hey here is an idea if you really want to educate without pointing fingers. Contact companies and grocery stores to donate sample stuff or buy samples of snacks etc that are healthy and hand them out "goodie bags" to everyone. You could also put some information about healthy snacking etc in it. People dig free stuff and if they try and like it they may be more willing to pay the higher prices. Its hard to risk $5 on 6 tubes of apple sauce if your kid might not like it, ya know.

if you really are concerned and want to help educate there are ways to do it without offendeding.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mags* 
Like those fruit snack things (they come in a pre-sealed baggies, are similar to gummy bears, but not as chewy), I have a friend who thinks she is very healthy, she gives her kids those fruit snacks, which are IMO basically just candy and says how healthy they are b/c they are made from juice. I've looked that nutritional info on the back of those pkgs before at the store, and it is NOT a healthy snack.

Those things are my biggest nutritional pete peeve. When they first came out they were actually located in the candy isle. They are not healthy. they are not even neutral. they are probably one of the worst things a person could eat. not that we never eat them but when we do we are under no healthful delusions.

sorry.

rant.

couldn't help it.


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Quote:

Those things are my biggest nutritional pete peeve. When they first came out they were actually located in the candy isle. They are not healthy. they are not even neutral. they are probably one of the worst things a person could eat. not that we never eat them but when we do we are under no healthful delusions.

sorry.

rant.

couldn't help it.
And I know it.
But my son eats about 3 packs a day. Because it is only one of the foods he will eat. And I find them better than chocolate bars.


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## BinahYeteirah (Oct 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polka hop* 
Could you give this as a reason why you don't want your kids sharing food? Even at my DD's Jewish preschool, where everything has to have a reliable hechsher, kids aren't allowed to share food because of differing levels of shomer kashrus (Cholov Yisroel, Pas Yisroel, etc.). It seems like if you let the teachers know, and ask the other parents to let their kids know not to share with yours for that reason, you might be able to solve the problem without singling anyone out.

This is what I was going to say. I do not find it acceptable that a Jewish school (actually I don't know if this is a Jewish school, I'm just assuming you'd be really upset about food sharing if it weren't) allows children to share food. One of the reasons I decided not to send my child to a particular Jewish school is because of the possibility of food sharing, although I was strongly assured that food sharing was not allowed. People have widely different standards of kashrus and health for food, I would flip if my child was allowed to share I-don't-know-what food.

I have tons of friends who feed their kids food I consider junk, but I don't say anything. If we a talking about food, I might say, "Oh, I try not to buy product x, because it has sugar." That's it. There are so many things to judge people for: whether kids are clean enough, if the mother dresses nice enough, how religious a family is, how clean the house is, how often they use babysitters, it never ends...


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## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

I've been following this thread, trying not to jump in. But I can't help myself.

How rude. I mean, to assume another parent has "lower expectations" based on the snacks she sends to school and the carseat she chooses/uses is just ludicrous. A very close friend of mine with four children has chosen to use her overhead shield carseat for their infant, b/c they cannot afford to buy a new one. I've shared with her the potential dangers of smaller children using boosters, but they're not in a position to buy a Britax Regent for both boys who are currently in boosters, and I'm certainly not going to hold her in contempt b/c of that.

Truly, if the measure of a parent is the type of snacks we serve our children, and whether or not we shell out for the single most expensive, highest-performance carseat on the market, then we're all in trouble. What really matters here is if that child is loved, sheltered, cared for and kept safe. It really doesn't matter if her mom chooses to serve her fruit flavored applesauce with flourescent stripes in it, nor does it matter that you are offended by that. She's not your daughter, and it's no right of yours to say anything about it other than to the preschool/daycare supervisor who is the ONLY person responsible for keeping the kids from sharing snacks. The other mother has every right to send her daughter with whatever she wants unless the school specifies otherwise.

Seriously, folks. MDC is a great place, but since when does it become ok to post about other people's food and carseat choices when they're not actually doing anything wrong?


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## jorismom (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I don't think so -- I've noticed a major trend that when people come here to tsk tsk about the way someone else is parenting, pretty much everyone steps in and calls out the OP on being judgemental.

You're right that most people here probably *don't* think that the best way to parent is to feed junk food and use cheap carseats, but that doesn't mean they have to join in on condemning someone else for doing so. I mean, what can people really say? "Oh, what a bad mom! I'm glad we're not like her!"

I think that is the point, people want to validate their own parenting by putting down others. I don't think junk food and old carseats are the best choices either, but at some point the "bad mommy" posts get to be a little old.


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## kathteach (Jun 6, 2004)

_Quote:_

There is a war going on...there are gangs, poverty and bullying. This snack and carseat business is just too petty.


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jorismom* 
I think that is the point, people want to validate their own parenting by putting down others. I don't think junk food and old carseats are the best choices either, but at some point the "bad mommy" posts get to be a little old.









:


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

I'm glad at my kids' preschool, they have class snacks. On your snack week, they give you a specific list of how many, which kind, which brands are acceptable, etc. Half of it is usually fresh fruit that the teachers will cut up themselves.

This past year, they started asking for more and more organic foods. In the past, they'd already had a no artificial colors rule, and a no sugary snack rule (including cupcakes for birthdays--muffins are acceptable, and honestly, the kids don't know the difference! A treat is a treat at their age, and if it comes in a paper cupcake wrapper, it must be a cupcake. Even if it doesn't have icing.)


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

is starting to remind me of the song

"Friends in Low Places"


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## attachedmamaof3 (Dec 2, 2006)

I think that if another parent from my kid's daycare came up to me because they were concerned that my car seat was out of date, I'd be terribly embarrassed.

If same parent then addressed concerns regarding my child's diet, I would get a little mad and probably not mince words.

I don't think it's advisable, and yes I think you are being waaaaay too judgemental.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I'm always amazed when other parents of small children have time to notice what kinds of carseats other people have for their kids. I'm always so occupied helping my own children in and out of the car in parking lots, that kind of stuff just doesn't register.

But I WILL notice if you haul your babe around the store in her carseat with a bottle propped in her mouth, rather than snuggling her in the sling so she has free access to your breast, as *I* do.









But I'm glad I learned about the plastic disintegrating after 6 years (in the carseats, not my breasts), so we won't try to save our dd's carseats for our grandkids ... but it's good to know we can still make a profit on them at a garage sale, since most people are so ignorant (just kidding -- seriously I'd never do that).


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## studentmidwife (Apr 23, 2004)

Actually, when I read the post, I was quite impressed with the mom. Juice and applesauce sound like pretty healthy choices to me.

I guess it is because I see so much worse - I have seen countless mothers pour diet coke into a bottle and hand it to their seven month old. And even then, I'm happy the child has a mother, because I've seen so many babies who didn't even have that.

So, my advice? Work in the pediatric ward of an inner-city or rural hospital for a few months. You'll start to think blue applesauce is the epitome of healthy perfection









Seriously though, I would have a problem if it was my child who was eating the blue applesauce - and it sounds like it is, because all the kids share. But I don't know how you could enforce it with a three year old and the teacher you described.

As far as the carseat, I really don't see the problem. But once again, it's all relative. After you've seen a few hundred pickup trucks driving at sixty miles an hour with two year olds hanging over the edge of the bed, an outdated carseat is pretty impressive.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Oh, and if you visit the lactation section, you'll discover there are some bad mamas who feed their babies *bm, exclusively* for the first 6 months of life. They advise other moms to do it, too, and go on and on about "the wonders of bm" -- as if it could actually be better than mother's milk!

I mean, I'm sure human waste is probably good for the garden (if it were even legal to do that) -- but feeding bm to a _baby_? That's taking the recycling concept a little too far!


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Oh, and if you visit the lactation section, you'll discover there are some bad mamas who feed their babies *bm, exclusively* for the first 6 months of life. They advise other moms to do it, too, and go on and on about "the wonders of bm" -- as if it could actually be better than mother's milk!

I mean, I'm sure human waste is probably good for the garden (if it were even legal to do that) -- but feeding bm to a _baby_? That's taking the recycling concept a little too far!









Yeah, that always really disturbs me, too.


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## mags (May 4, 2004)

I don't think it is a matter of low standards, but maybe more of an matter of being ignorant. She thinks applesauce is healthy, so doesn't realize the swirly kind is probably not the greatest choice. I know a lot of ppl who think things are, "healthy" that are awful. Like those fruit snack things (they come in a pre-sealed baggies, are similar to gummy bears, but not as chewy), I have a friend who thinks she is very healthy, she gives her kids those fruit snacks, which are IMO basically just candy and says how healthy they are b/c they are made from juice. I've looked that nutritional info on the back of those pkgs before at the store, and it is NOT a healthy snack.

As for the car seat, I don't know about the area you live in, but where I live, ppl will use the same carseat for multiple children for over a decade. I am not exaggerating. In general I have found that in my area my DH and I are the most knowledgeable ones about carseats. Seriously, so many ppl are so clueless and the # of ppl whose carseats are not install correctly, or those who should be using car seats, but don't... it's really, really bad around here. One couple from church, cares for one of their granddaughters who is the same age as my preschooler. I happened to mention to her that target had carseats on 50% clearance. She said, "oh, I just plan to use her mom's carseat (her dd is over 20 yrs old!!!)." I kind of looked and her and said, "you mean x's carseat?" She said, "yeah." I said, you know car seats typically have a life of only six yrs, you can't use it, b/c the plastic deteriorates and becomes brittle, it is very dangerous, x's seat is over 20 yrs old! She was completely shocked. Not upset at me at all, but she honestly did not know this info and I think the thought that she had put her grandkids in danger from using old carseats really dawned on her. She told me it made sense, how she had some appliance that she loved, but after 10 yrs, the motor still worked, but the plastic deteriorated. I kind of had an idea that they did not know this, b/c a wk earlier my DH helped out with the church's rummage sale and told me that the husband had bought a really old looking, used carseat for his other grandchild. I told my DH, "why didn't you educate him about car seat safety, he obviously doesn't know???"

I honestly think that some ppl are just really clueless, and if they were aware that what they were doing was not safe/healthy for their children, they would be very upset at themselves. In cases like this, I think some gentle suggestions would work well. I'd address the car seat issue first.


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## ALkiMom (May 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bdavis337* 
Truly, if the measure of a parent is the type of snacks we serve our children, and whether or not we shell out for the single most expensive, highest-performance carseat on the market, then we're all in trouble. What really matters here is if that child is loved, sheltered, cared for and kept safe. It really doesn't matter if her mom chooses to serve her fruit flavored applesauce with flourescent stripes in it, nor does it matter that you are offended by that. She's not your daughter, and it's no right of yours to say anything about it other than to the preschool/daycare supervisor who is the ONLY person responsible for keeping the kids from sharing snacks. The other mother has every right to send her daughter with whatever she wants unless the school specifies otherwise.

Seriously, folks. MDC is a great place, but since when does it become ok to post about other people's food and carseat choices when they're not actually doing anything wrong?











Also, blue spangly applesauce with artificial coloring may not be the best food in the world,but it could ALWAYS be worse - - - the child isn't showing up to snacktime with big chunks of chocolate and diet coke!


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

I think it's way harsh to bring that stuff up to the mama directly - I know I wouldn't take to it well if someone did it to me.

I think you should talk to the teacher and see if a better food policy can be put in place and also type up a short info sheet on car seats with some sort of 'latest updates about carseats' header and try to get the teacher let you hand them out or something. (Maybe there's something online already that you can print off??).


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Quote:

The title of this thread

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

is starting to remind me of the song

"Friends in Low Places"






















:


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## gurumama (Oct 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bdavis337* 

Seriously, folks. MDC is a great place, but since when does it become ok to post about other people's food and carseat choices when they're not actually doing anything wrong?









Well, I've been here for 5 years, and applesauce and an older carseat are actually MINOR on the judgmental scale that I've seen over the years.

There was a poster here years ago who refused to be friends with anyone who ever used even one disposable diaper.

There have been posters in the past who claimed that using a stroller--ever--was borderline abusive because the baby wasn't getting the closeness he/she needed.

One drop of formula = destroyed digestive tract for ever and ever and ever.

MDC attracts the extremes, and always has. It's one of the most fascinating anthropological phenomenon you'll find on the Internet.









As for the OP: If I see another mother or father who is behaving in a way that is unsafe to to children or others, I say something. If the quality of the food that is *shared* may have a negative effect on your child, then say something in a diplomatic way.


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## happyhippiemama (Apr 1, 2004)

*cringe* everytime I read one of these threads I look around me suspiciously in case an IRL MDC momma is watching me... even when I'm at home!!









But I did think of one helpful idea - if the carseat thingie bothers you... my DD's dcp hosted a carseat safety demonstration in the parking lot of their center one afternoon/evening. The fire station and police sent reps to show the parents proper installation, fit, and to check on the general safety of all of our seats.

Ask the dcp if they would be interested in hosting a similar event?


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

A carseat check would be a great idea


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## erin_d_a (Jun 27, 2007)

Quote:

There was a poster here years ago who refused to be friends with anyone who ever used even one disposable diaper.

There have been posters in the past who claimed that using a stroller--ever--was borderline abusive because the baby wasn't getting the closeness he/she needed.

One drop of formula = destroyed digestive tract for ever and ever and ever.
Nice attitude. I'm betting these people pride themselves on being open minded and loving and accepting too.

I was publicly screamed at in Berkeley CA for giving my daughter a bottle and not breast feeding her. She is adopted, breast feeding didnt' work out for us (we tried) She said it was abuse not to BF my daughter.

If you were to mention the carseat, I would offer to buy her one.

As far as the food, well, I think the best answer would to be setting a good example with your own kids. Mention in conversation how you read something about food dyes, or juice or whatever. Don't make it frequent, but she'll probably glean some information from you


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I was bothered that you said the kids have weight problems from eating this food. Did the mother tell you they are having weight problems or did you just decide that yourself?

If the food sharing is bothering you than you really need to talk to the school. They either need to make the kids sit down to eat and not share or send a list of acceptable foods to parents.


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## Chavelamomela (Sep 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlyzombiecat* 
I was bothered that you said the kids have weight problems from eating this food. Did the mother tell you they are having weight problems or did you just decide that yourself?

It is quite obvious. And no, I didn't decide this myself.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ALkiMom* 
the child isn't showing up to snacktime with big chunks of chocolate

Dark chocolate is a health food. Antioxidants, donchaknow.


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## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gurumama* 







Well, I've been here for 5 years, and applesauce and an older carseat are actually MINOR on the judgmental scale that I've seen over the years.

There was a poster here years ago who refused to be friends with anyone who ever used even one disposable diaper.

There have been posters in the past who claimed that using a stroller--ever--was borderline abusive because the baby wasn't getting the closeness he/she needed.

One drop of formula = destroyed digestive tract for ever and ever and ever.

MDC attracts the extremes, and always has. It's one of the most fascinating anthropological phenomenon you'll find on the Internet.









As for the OP: If I see another mother or father who is behaving in a way that is unsafe to to children or others, I say something. If the quality of the food that is *shared* may have a negative effect on your child, then say something in a diplomatic way.

I agree, MDC does attract extremism, and in all reality, extremism isn't bad. It becomes dangerous when "we" (collectively speaking) start forming judgements of other people based on our personal beliefs. Beliefs are different than fact - and the fact is, an overhead shield carseat that meets current safety guidelines does not warrant any type of judgement. Failure to use a carseat, or improper use of one AFTER education, well, that's different.


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## intorainbowz (Aug 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happyhippiemama* 
*cringe* everytime I read one of these threads I look around me suspiciously in case an IRL MDC momma is watching me... even when I'm at home!!









But I did think of one helpful idea - if the carseat thingie bothers you... my DD's dcp hosted a carseat safety demonstration in the parking lot of their center one afternoon/evening. The fire station and police sent reps to show the parents proper installation, fit, and to check on the general safety of all of our seats.

Ask the dcp if they would be interested in hosting a similar event?

I too think did they see me feeding DD in public? Perhaps the chocolate milk in her sippy was actually pediasure because she is so tiny.

The car seat check idea is a great one to try to resolve the car seat issue.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amitymama* 
Seriously? Sorry, that just made me









If I received a letter from a parent about the _da-dum-DUM_ 'dangers of artificial colors' along with research on preservatives and had a finger wagged in my face for daring to expose their little Johnny to such horrors, I would laugh my butt off. Then I would tear up the letter and laugh some more. Then I would go out and buy bright blue applesauce and send my kids to school with it everyday and enjoy the thought of that parent's head exploding.









I'm perverse that way too.


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## avent (Mar 13, 2006)

I can totally see the OP's point about the food, the car seat, not so much.

I think as a society we have moved away from our children's natural inclinations to eat the right foods. And I say this as someone who really struggled to get my son to eat, so I'm not clueless to the frustration and tears of having a child who doesn't eat much.

But I don't understand the "that's all my child will eat" mentality, I really don't. What would you have done 100 years ago then, before blue applesauce and fruit chews and chicken nuggets? I'm really asking. I feel I can never get a good answer to this question IRL from the "that's all I can get my child to eat" mamas. So I'm asking here.

By the way, research done in the 1930s showed a correlation between the nutrition a child receives and their level of criminal activity. I do think having an adequately fed populace, that receives all of the nutrients needed for healthy human life, affects the levels of things like crime and war. I think people are born knowing instinctively what they need to eat (like all animals) and if we don't provide that somewhere inside they know their needs are not being met and it affects how they feel about society and their place in it. On the surface they are gobbling down swirly applesauce and smiling through sticky teeth, but underneath I think they know they're being ripped off.

Go ahead, rip me to shreds!









ETA: Not that this opinion causes me to say anything aloud to other mamas, I think they should do what they want. But I felt I had to address the "my child eats only this" and the "there's a war going on" parts of the discussion.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avent* 

But I don't understand the "that's all my child will eat" mentality, I really don't. What would you have done 100 years ago then, before blue applesauce and fruit chews and chicken nuggets? I'm really asking. I feel I can never get a good answer to this question IRL from the "that's all I can get my child to eat" mamas. So I'm asking here.

They might have died, if they had food allergies or a hard time thriving on available food. And you don't believe that people in th 1800s and early 1900s ate a super-healthful diet do you? We have a romantic view of things in the past, I know, but really...if you look at what people ate it might not have been pretty with a shelf life of a million years, but by no means did they exist on twigs and leaves.

One of my grandmas had a really hard time keeping weight on as a child and teenager. She was made to eat, literally, a crisco and honey sandwich every day.

So I guess your 'good answer' would be that perhaps you should do some more research into how people (other than the upper classes and people who owned farms) ate 100 years ago.

I find the "what would you have done 100 years ago" to be just as inane as you find people saying "that's all my kid will eat". How would YOU have fed your kids a pristine organic diet 100 years ago if you, gods forbid, lived in a city? My kids are well-rounded eaters (more due to them than anything parental I've done) but I think it's a little silly to romanticize how things were in the good old days when there were toxic food additives and rotten meat, people starved and were malnourished as a matter of course, ect.

Just a little pet peeve of mine.


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## wifeandmom (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 
It's such a difference when you hear a reply like:

"I think it's very sweet that you wish you could help them be healthier and safer.

It's too bad you can't fix them all... sigh"

rather than

"yes, you are being way too judgemental"

Yes, I still enjoy MDC, and like seeing e/o's opinions. I just think everyone (collectively) over-reacted and over-judged a bit.

Perhaps those who indicated they thought you were being too judgmental didn't see anything that you needed to 'fix'.

Perhaps if you do not want to hear an honest answer to your question, which was 'Am I being too judgmental?', you shouldn't ask it. A simple 'Yes, you are being too judgmental.' is certianly a far cry from 'ripping your words apart'.

I don't understand why you'd ask the question if someone answering 'yes' was going to upset or offend you. I don't get it.


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## avent (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
My kids are well-rounded eaters (more due to them than anything parental I've done) but I think it's a little silly to romanticize how things were in the good old days when there were toxic food additives and rotten meat, people starved and were malnourished as a matter of course, ect.

I'm not romanticizing. I'm not saying the diet was great in the city or that everyone ate perfect food. And I wasn't talking about kids with food allergies or other medical/develomental issues. I'm asking a very specific question: "If the child <without food/developmental isses> only eats blue applesauce or whatever, what would the parents have fed the child 100 years ago?" That's the question. In my line of work I see mamas w/ children who don't have issues saying stuff like this all the time. They would have died from lack of sparkly food, green goldfish crackers and blue ketchup? Really?

And I have done vast amounts of research for years. It's part of how I make a living.









I just find it hard to swallow that mamas who nursed their children so they could bond and provide them with the best nutrition feel that it's okay (or even desirable!) at a certain age to give their kids food that contains similar ingredients to what is found in formula. It's not like the child's brain stops developing because they've been weaned. In many cases kids are given artifical flavors, colors, preservatives, neurotoxins, etc. before they are weaned.

I guess when someone says their child won't eat anything else (which doesn't sound like you, btw) I think of how I would feel if I heard a mama saying that about formula while she had plenty of milk in her breasts. "He only likes formula. It tastes better to him. It's much easier to give it to him that to nurse him. He likes the blue formula best."







: Not that there aren't mamas saying who wouldn't say that, it's just hard to swallow when the said mama is also a breastfeeder, maybe an extended one. I believe the sustenance and the bonding provided through nursing continue (in a different way) when the mama provides nutritious solid foods as well.


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## Chavelamomela (Sep 25, 2006)

I realize I didn't make this clear in my original post:

The carseat she uses is not only the over-head bar kind (again, which do meet minimum safety standards), but it's over 5 years old. her oldest dd is 7 y.o. and it's the same seat that the oldest used. Now the 18 mo ds is using it too. (child #3)


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avent* 
I can totally see the OP's point about the food, the car seat, not so much.

I think as a society we have moved away from our children's natural inclinations to eat the right foods. And I say this as someone who really struggled to get my son to eat, so I'm not clueless to the frustration and tears of having a child who doesn't eat much.

But I don't understand the "that's all my child will eat" mentality, I really don't. What would you have done 100 years ago then, before blue applesauce and fruit chews and chicken nuggets? I'm really asking. I feel I can never get a good answer to this question IRL from the "that's all I can get my child to eat" mamas. So I'm asking here.

By the way, research done in the 1930s showed a correlation between the nutrition a child receives and their level of criminal activity. I do think having an adequately fed populace, that receives all of the nutrients needed for healthy human life, affects the levels of things like crime and war. I think people are born knowing instinctively what they need to eat (like all animals) and if we don't provide that somewhere inside they know their needs are not being met and it affects how they feel about society and their place in it. On the surface they are gobbling down swirly applesauce and smiling through sticky teeth, but underneath I think they know they're being ripped off.

Go ahead, rip me to shreds!









ETA: Not that this opinion causes me to say anything aloud to other mamas, I think they should do what they want. But I felt I had to address the "my child eats only this" and the "there's a war going on" parts of the discussion.

Struggling with a child to get them to eat something is not the same as a child with a feeding disorder. Let me spell it out for you, so you get it....

My son really WOULD rather starve than eat something he finds tactile defensive. He used to projectile vomit when you put something green in front of him..._even green apple sauce_. After 2.5 years of feeding therapy, he merely gags and screams until you cover it with a napkin and remove it from his sight. My son cannot chew certain foods, as the textures are repulsive to him to the point it is painful for him to chew them. Also, he does not have the muscle coordination in his mouth/tongue/jaw to chew them. It takes 10 exposures of a food for my son to even touch it. That's TOUCH it. Not actually eat it. 10 exposures means preparing said food 10 times, and eating it in his presence 10 times, at 10 separate meals. 10 exposures only means he'll touch the food or tolerate it in his presence, not actually eat it.

My child, 100 years ago, probably would be dead. Because of his oral motor difficulties, we had extreme nursing problems (and I teach other women how to nurse, so it ain't lack of knowledge or support...it was truly a mechanical problem...). As in after 30 minutes of nursing his total intake was 13cc's (that's approximately 1/3 ounce). As in he literally couldn't suck strong or coordinated enough to get me to make milk or to get enough milk into him without being physically exhausted. The first 3 weeks of his life we used the SNS and supplemented with formula (collective gasp of horror...







). 100 years ago, he couldn't have even nursed from a wet nurse because he COULDN'T NURSE, period. Even with the SNS, it took him an hour to take in 30 cc's of formula (that's an ounce). He was exhausted. He burned it off as he took it in.

100 years ago he probably would have had the crap beaten out of him for being "willful" or some other junk. 100 years ago he would have probably choked on the acid he was constantly spitting up from his reflux. 100 years ago he probably would have been shaken because of colic.

So there's your answer. Having a kid who hates broccoli or prefers mickey d's is NOT the same at all as having a child who has a feeding disorder that is sensory and oral-motor based. It's not a "why don't you just...." situation. If I had a nickel for every stinking person who gave me that "why don't you just do xyz" crap, I would be a gazillionaire.

/rant

If you still have a hard time understanding, trot on into the special needs forum and ask the moms there to give you the 411. You'll be veeeeeeeeeeeery educated, trust me.


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## avent (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch* 
Struggling with a child to get them to eat something is not the same as a child with a feeding disorder. Let me spell it out for you, so you get it....

Please read my clarification that I was not talking about kids who have developmental issues, disorders or food allergies. Thanks.


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## Adastra (May 30, 2007)

I just don't think there is any way to approach her on it that doesn't make you seem judgemental and overbearing. The ONLY suggestion anyone's made that might work is asking the DCP to sponsor a carseat check or something as a service.

I am shocked, though, that your DCP allows children to walk around with and share food. With food allergies and choking hazards, that is JUST NOT DONE in this neck of the woods. Is she licensed?


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I'm sorry, but unless you are with these families 24/7 how in the name of all that is holy would you know that there's no issues?

It's a little like the people making a stink over (some) poor people feeding their kids Mickey Dee's stuff when it would be "ever so much cheaper" to cook from scratch. And totally being blind to the fact that some people who subsist on stuff like this do so because it's more expensive to run a stove, buy pots and pans, store perishables, ect. than it is to spend $200 for a hamburger and small drink if you've got the $$.

If there were no coloring and sparkles, then likely as not these poor sots would find some other food that you'd look down on to feed their kids. Something quick, sweet, and/or fatty. This is not a new invention. An animal medley nugget is an animal medley nugget regardless of whether it looks like a turd or is stamped into the shape of a dinosaur.

Perhaps the people who buy food with all the bells and whistles would have had servants 100 years ago who would have fed their kids and so they wouldn't have heard them whine. Perhaps their kids would have choked down whatever was on the plate before it was taken by someone else and would have been hungrier after spending 18 hours on a factory floor (or conversely, would have chosen to sleep rather than eat, from exhaustion). Do you or they know in 2007, no, how would you?

100 years ago was 100 years ago. Things have changed a little since then. Why do you feel a need to question someone so snarkily about that, in search of a "good answer"? Considering that most people wouldn't have a clue as to where they'd be on the socio-economic spectrum or indeed where they'd be living at that time (both of which as apparently you're aware of can make VAST differences in what was available/how they'd be able to live), how do you expect them to answer?

If you're going to trash people's food choices, that's fine. But at least have the gonads to actually grab the bull by the horns and trash their food choices directly, instead of asking a question like that. That's intended to make people feel bad, and is largely irrelevant, and if you've done your research you know that. Why hide behind it? I guess it seems a little more "intellectual" to ask it that way, but sheesh. I'm sure most people think it sounds clever, but as I said, I personally would find it irritating because I've had to study the socio-economic/daily life history of American families across the spectrum and it really strikes me as romanticizing things when there's a clear implication that 100 years ago these people would have been forced to make healthier choices. Maybe so, maybe not. Humans eating adulterated garbage has been around since industrialization, so you might want to consider amending your historical question to 200-300 years ago.

Otherwise you run the risk of someone cantankerous like me taking issue with your implied history. ;>


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avent* 
Please read my clarification that I was not talking about kids who have developmental issues, disorders or food allergies. Thanks.

Fine. Good, I'm glad you realize there is a difference. But please take the time to read that even 'normal-looking' kids can have feeding disorders and other stuff that isn't visible to judgemental strangers. My child I'm sure "looks" like he's "just spoiled" or some such b.s.. He's a healthy weight and I have gotten the comment, "oh he's so cute, he can't be autistic" more times than I care to count.

I'm saying this....NOBODY KNOWS WHAT GOES ON IN A STRANGER'S LIFE. To make a snap judgement like that, while totally human, is something people need to learn to temper a little bit. Having a sn child will do that. I no longer look at people doing things and think, "oooh, bad mommy" or whatever. Believe me, I sure as hell used to. Been there, done that. Having been "that" mother that people I'm sure post about on other message boards now, I have a totally new understanding of making snap judgements of strangers based on petty and small things. If you're burning your kid with a cigarette, yeah, I'm gonna think you're a jerk. If you're feeding your kid a steady diet of ho hos and kool aid, I'm gonna cut you some slack, because there could be a million little things going on in your life that I have no clue about.

Just be gentle when judging strangers in your head, that's all I'm saying. Things have happened in peoples' lives that do not always show on the outside.

Rock on, Kitty.


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## dolphinkisser (Dec 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 
I realize I didn't make this clear in my original post:

The carseat she uses is not only the over-head bar kind (again, which do meet minimum safety standards), but it's over 5 years old. her oldest dd is 7 y.o. and it's the same seat that the oldest used. Now the 18 mo ds is using it too. (child #3)

So what?







She is recycling







What a good mama!Not using up our landfill!!


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## Jenlaana (Oct 28, 2005)

heated topic eh?









My son cannot have sugar. He is 12 yrs old and his entire life, sugar has driven him near insanity. He literally goes into hyperdrive to the point that he has been kicked out of class because he had sugar at a school party and gotten all wacked out. He used to go to daycare when I was a single mom, for about 8 years (plus public school till the 3rd quarter of 5th grade). I have had him in daycares where the daycare gives the kids cookies for snacks, kids share food, have parties, etc etc.

I explain to them all that he cannot have sugar, and the effects on him. I specify that I would like them to have something else for them if they insist on giving kids sugar saturated snacks. I have no problem providing that. Other people's children should NOT be sharing their food with yours, period. You cant just say "well they're preschoolers, they share everything". That is what the teachers are there for, to keep that from happening. I would have a problem with the center for allowing this to go on. Its not the mom's fault that your child eats something you don't want them to eat. Its the adult in charge of your child at that time's fault for allowing that to happen.

Its not your place to police other people's parenting. It is, however, your right and responsibility to make sure that your children are given the food that you provide them or specify for them by the people who are PAID to care for them.

If someone told me that I was not allowed to send the food to daycare that my son liked, that I approved of, I would yank my kid out of there and go somewhere else. If I am paying for my child's meal, then I will get what I choose to have for them, and its nobody else's business.

Just as I would not feed my son a raw foods diet, I would not ever feel I had the right to question someone else feeding their child that diet. I may ask them questions out of curiosity, but I would not judge them because its not my place.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela*
_I realize I didn't make this clear in my original post:

The carseat she uses is not only the over-head bar kind (again, which do meet minimum safety standards), but it's over 5 years old. her oldest dd is 7 y.o. and it's the same seat that the oldest used. Now the 18 mo ds is using it too. (child #3)_

Perhaps she doesn't know that car seats expire. You'd be surprised. A lot of people don't. In fact, I myself didn't until a few years ago. And when I realized that I'd have to get rid of my Britax Marathon just because it was "expired"... well lets just say that I haven't yet. Its in the back room and no one will use it, nor will I sell it... but honestly.. the thought of just throwing it out kills me.







I can understand the people that use old car seats. Really I can.


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## avent (Mar 13, 2006)

Thanks for your feedback. I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm really not.

I do know a lot about the eating habits of people as I ask them that (and about all of their medical issues) in my line of work. I'm not with them 24/7 but I am given their medical records and I spend a great deal of time working with them on their family and health issues. So I have more access than most people do, including food diaries.

A lot of times people have to feed their children what they can because of their economic situation. I get that and I know a lot of people in that situation. That's not who I am talking about. Rather then going back and forth where you find every exception, I'm just going to say I'm talking about families with enough money, time to cook, whose kids don't have sensory/developmental issues. Do you really not know anyone like this who breastfed but then gave their kids Coke, Lunchables, Wonderbread, Kool-Aid, Snickers, blue yougurt, etc, sometimes even simultaneous to nursing?

Rather than arguing what life was like 100 years ago, I'll say I didn't have to pick 100 years ago. I was just selecting a time and place where we didn't have swirly yogurt or whatever. I could have said 1000 years ago, Bombay in the 1940s, rural Tanzania 20 years ago. There's no magic about 100 years ago. Pick any time and place where these processed foods were not available. It's still a valid question.

And I'm not just talking about American or western European cities. Your examples have been the research you did wrt American socio-economic patterns and the foods of American cities 100 years ago (yikes on the crisco sandwiches). People in other countries 100 years ago (or 1000 or whatever) also didn't have access to these foods that are the "only foods" some kids will eat. (I say this again with all required disclaimers about the family economic and health situations.)

I'm not hiding behind a question in order to not trash food choices directly. I'll ask: "Why would someone feed their children that fake crap if they don't have to?" Is that better? Does the "if they don't have to" correctly place the question in the realm of people who feed their kids this food for no good reason? Do you think it's possible these people I'm talking about exist? I think formula is necessary in some cases (and I'm sure people would be happy to spell out all the examples of why they needed formula, as I had to as well), but that doesn't mean nobody is giving formula for convenience or whatever. I'm talking about the solid food equivalent.

Like many kids, when I was growing up I spent a great deal of time with my girlfriends, sleeping over, going in and out of each others' houses, etc. I was intimately familair with their family's habits (and obsession with Shawn Cassidy!) and I am certain that they didn't have health or developmental issues and they had enough money and the mamas stayed home. At my best friend's house, why in the world were we given Coco Puffs everyday? I was too young to grasp so I didn't ask but looking back I think it was because it was convenient. We would sometimes ask for eggs, toast, etc. but were handed a box of Coco Puffs and (chocolate!) milk instead. I don't judge those mamas because I am certain I am doing something ridiculous in raising my child.







But that doesn't make what happened any less ridiculous.


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## dolphinkisser (Dec 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avent* 

Like many kids, when I was growing up I spent a great deal of time with my girlfriends, sleeping over, going in and out of each others' houses, etc. I was intimately familair with their family's habits (and obsession with Shawn Cassidy!) and I am certain that they didn't have health or developmental issues and they had enough money and the mamas stayed home. At my best friend's house, why in the world were we given Coco Puffs everyday? I was too young to grasp so I didn't ask but looking back I think it was because it was convenient. We would sometimes ask for eggs, toast, etc. but were handed a box of Coc Puffs and (chocolate!) milk instead. I don't judge those mamas because I am certain I am doing something ridiculous in raising my child.







But that doesn't make what happened any less ridiculous.

Wasn't it nice that these parents invited you to their house to sleep over and have the energy to take on an extra child for the night? She opened her home and shared it with you..that is a gift and an honor. Not all parents do that...i know that my kids have sleepovers often and in the morning, I am SO drained that i tell them to eat what is in the cupboard. I hope 20 years from now they appreciate me having them over all the time and having memories of play time and giggling rather than lamenting about the kind of breakfast they got and writing it on a message board many years later.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avent* 
Like many kids, when I was growing up I spent a great deal of time with my girlfriends, sleeping over, going in and out of each others' houses, etc. I was intimately familair with their family's habits (and obsession with Shawn Cassidy!) and I am certain that they didn't have health or developmental issues and they had enough money and the mamas stayed home. At my best friend's house, why in the world were we given Coco Puffs everyday? I was too young to grasp so I didn't ask but looking back I think it was because it was convenient. We would sometimes ask for eggs, toast, etc. but were handed a box of Coco Puffs and (chocolate!) milk instead. I don't judge those mamas because I am certain I am doing something ridiculous in raising my child.







But that doesn't make what happened any less ridiculous.









Its funny you should say this... my nieces stayed the weekend a few weeks ago. I have three girls myself. So with five very rowdy girls in the house, I planned on making pancakes. But then my back started giving me problems and my hip started hurting. (I have SPD) So guess what they ate for breakfast? Yep! Coco Puffs! And my daughter was shocked and surprised because she knows I NEVER buy those things. But you know... I was tired and in pain, and just felt like not pushing myself.

I'm sure my children will survive. So perhaps while you were always at your friends house... the mama didn't want to cook or maybe it was hard for her. Convenience is a thing of perspective really. What might be convenience to you, could be necessary for me. Maybe I really can't stand at the stove cooking eggs.







Who knows really?


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 







Its funny you should say this... my nieces stayed the weekend a few weeks ago. I have three girls myself. So with five very rowdy girls in the house, I planned on making pancakes. But then my back started giving me problems and my hip started hurting. (I have SPD) So guess what they ate for breakfast? Yep! Coco Puffs! And my daughter was shocked and surprised because she knows I NEVER buy those things. But you know... I was tired and in pain, and just felt like not pushing myself.

I'm sure my children will survive. So perhaps while you were always at your friends house... the mama didn't want to cook or maybe it was hard for her. Convenience is a thing of perspective really. What might be convenience to you, could be necessary for me. Maybe I really can't stand at the stove cooking eggs.







Who knows really?

Sometimes as parents we all just do the best we can. I grew up in a working class family and despite the fact that I am no longer technically working class, alot of what I ate as a child is still ingrained in me. Yeah, broiled fish may be healthiest but guess what I like it fried. Its funny because I had my son when I was 19 so when he was little, I would have been the Mama getting talked about on one of these boards had they existed 15 years ago.







(I still remember thinking Sunny D and Capri Suns were good juices, I simply didn't know any better)

I sure as hell hope my son doesn't talk about what I fed him years from now but instead remembers the good times. Actually at 15 he jokes that we do eat differently than when he was a young kid.

This discussion has been so fascinating to me, like someone else said earlier, is this stuff really worth getting bent out of shape about? Yeah, if your kid has an allergy by all means you need to ensure your kid isn't being given the offending food but to ponder someone else's food choices?

As far as the carseats, I agree with others who have said maybe this mama doesn't know any better, maybe she doesn't have any money. Its so easy on MDC to view the world through such a narrow lens but maybe it would be easier if we had more compassion for other families.

Shay


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

My son wouldnt eat if it wasnt for some "crap". And if it were in Bombay or 100 years ago, there would be some kinda "crap" whatever crap was in those days, he would have eaten. Because my son has a texture/taste/temperature food issue. We try all foods and whatever he eats, he eats. Fruity snacks was one of those foods we tried. It worked, it added to his 4 list of foods. We didnt care, we were glad he TRIED something and liked it, without puking. If it were 100 years ago, it might be oh i dont know, raisins or something. (yes, raisins arent really that good for you) so who knows, but we really cant compare then to now and trying to say that our children who have these eating problems would have to eat healthy if it were in other place/time is ridiculous, because the problem would still be there. And its not about being lazy or whatever, because lord knows i have fixed gourmet meals hoping my son would eat ONE bite, only to waste food, which i think is worse that eating crap imo.


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## Trini-soca (Apr 21, 2007)

when it comes to food i try to give other moms info that i get. i would invite her to my house or something, have a bit of a cooking playdate with the kids. if you are really interested in helping her feed her kids better and not in just judgeing (sp?) her then think about what you would like someone to do for you. i've tried to help some of my friends feed their kids better and i just have them over for a playdate. when they see what i have for the kids to eat they ask questions. or i take them to the farmers market with me so they can see that it doesn't cost that much to buy good food for your family (cuz i aint rich).
stop being so judgemental and help the lady.
as for the car seat, i think you should mind your business there, the car seat works and it's safe.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

I don't think you're being overly judgemental; I am not as responsible as I should be re: my kids eating (they do eat junk on occasion), but I do not send junk to school- kids need to have good food to be able to concentrate and learn. Crappy artificial dye and white sugar aren't "good" food. BUT my kids are sensitive to those things- I'm sure some kids can eat 3 cups of that sugary blue applesauce and it doesn't affect them negatively.

The carseat issue- I am totally with you. In today's society, it isn't rocket science or some well-guarded secret that a 5pt harness is safer than an overhead shield seat. And you don't need a government protected password to learn about carseats exipring roughly 6 years from the date of manufacture (some are longer, I think 8 is the max). Honestly, I think parents are responsible for knowing about things like carseat safety, and I believe that every state should have a Misuse clause (if the child in an accident is injured and the carseat is misused (expired, not properly installed, or inappropriate for the child, the driver is cited and can be prosecuted). But carseats are a big deal for us. And yes, I do have some "challenges" with my 3 kids- we're not just sitting around, thinking of things to spend our time on. But we make time for things that can affect whether our kids will be seriously injured or killed. I would (and have) approach her on the carseat issue. Offer her info on where to get her seat checked (Safe Kids can provide the info), give her info on 5pt vs OHS seats, and carseat expiration. You would feel awful if that child was injured and you hadn't said anything, I would guess.


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## m9m9m9 (Jun 13, 2005)

Sure, go ahead and tell a mom with 3 small kids she is doing it all wrong. After all you have 1 kid and you know all about parenting.









The carseat - Overhead shield carseats are still manufactured.

They are not optimal but they do provide protection in a crash if used and installed correctly. The belts must be tight enough and they are best for children whose head is higher than the shield - thus a young infant probably is not very well off in this seat but an older toddler would be ok. I would only worry about a truly old style overhead shield seat - you can tell because the straps are routed through the front of the shield instead of being next to the childs boday and connecting into the buckle.

Maggie


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## snuggly mama (Mar 29, 2004)

Please tell me that I am not the only mom who is too busy trying to figure out how to sign the permission slips, get everyone dressed and out the door, pay the bills, go to work and raise the kids to spend time baking organic whole-grain muffins for snack time every day?







: I send applesauce, though admittedly not the neon green version. I send yogurt -- the kind with *gasp* sugar in it. I send the evil chocolate chip granola bars, even! Oh, and Capri Suns, too!!! Because they eat it. Because I don't do it every day, and because when they get home, they eat carrot sticks and apples and whole wheat toast with peanut butter and homemade pizza.

Seriously, dd2 has had a feeding tube for five years. And when she finally ate the white flour store-brand saltines and drank 1/2 of a 3 oz juice box, we had a party. The kid goes through hell on a fairly regular basis. If the bagel and chocolate milk makes her happy, then I'm good.

As far as the carseat thing goes, for a lot of people, it really *is* rocket-science. Have you seen how many are out there? Any how much they cost? It can take a lot of knowledge to figure out which seat is good enough, and maybe she really honestly doesn't know this stuff. Information is good, but done in a whole "well, if you were a good mom who cared about your kids you'd of course buy them the very best most expensive car seat" way isn't likely to help the situation.


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch* 
If I had a nickel for every stinking person who gave me that "why don't you just do xyz" crap, I would be a gazillionaire.

If you still have a hard time understanding, trot on into the special needs forum and ask the moms there to give you the 411. You'll be veeeeeeeeeeeery educated, trust me.

Hell's Bells, Finch! I'm really starting to fall for you







:


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## malibusunny (Jul 29, 2003)

I don't think it would hurt to have a chat about the carseats. I once had a chat with a lady in a restaurant about her daughter's carseat-- she was still in the infant carrier that one carries about, and she was obviously too large for it. The woman honestly had no idea what the weight limit was. She was seriously freaked out when we talked and she called her husband to talk about buying a new seat THAT NIGHT.

Now, obviously the carseat came with information, but she'd just forgotten all about it in the time that passed between buying the seat and this moment. And, this was her second child, so really, it was probably the first daughter's seat as well, meaning that a *lot* of time had passed.

It can't hurt to just TALK about things.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dolphinkisser* 
Wasn't it nice that these parents invited you to their house to sleep over and have the energy to take on an extra child for the night? She opened her home and shared it with you..that is a gift and an honor. Not all parents do that...i know that my kids have sleepovers often and in the morning, I am SO drained that i tell them to eat what is in the cupboard. I hope 20 years from now they appreciate me having them over all the time and having memories of play time and giggling rather than lamenting about the kind of breakfast they got and writing it on a message board many years later.

Yeah, that!


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FancyD* 
Hell's Bells, Finch! I'm really starting to fall for you







:

LMAO...

As for the overhead shield carseat thing and how "everybody" should know they're not optimal, well, that's not entirely true either. I have a bachelor's degree, consider myself well educated, am married to an educated man, blah blah blah all that crap. If I hadn't gone to parenting message boards before ds was born, I would have NO idea that overhead shields were not optimal. Seriously. They still make them, and it's what my (educated) sister used for her dd, so before I went to mommy sites I was totally planning on getting one for my ds because they looked easier to use.

So there ya go. If you're not a person who surfs the 'net or goes to mommy websites, it IS possible to really not know that overhead shields aren't great to use.

I think the carseat clinic at the school is a great idea. Pass out flyers and all that, including information where to get financial assistance to purchase better seats. Because as we all know, needing something and having the means to purchase said something are two very different things.

I'm gonna go bury my nose in a book now. Asta la pasta.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avent* 
I can totally see the OP's point about the food, the car seat, not so much.

I think as a society we have moved away from our children's natural inclinations to eat the right foods. And I say this as someone who really struggled to get my son to eat, so I'm not clueless to the frustration and tears of having a child who doesn't eat much.

But I don't understand the "that's all my child will eat" mentality, I really don't. What would you have done 100 years ago then, before blue applesauce and fruit chews and chicken nuggets? I'm really asking. I feel I can never get a good answer to this question IRL from the "that's all I can get my child to eat" mamas. So I'm asking here.

By the way, research done in the 1930s showed a correlation between the nutrition a child receives and their level of criminal activity. I do think having an adequately fed populace, that receives all of the nutrients needed for healthy human life, affects the levels of things like crime and war. I think people are born knowing instinctively what they need to eat (like all animals) and if we don't provide that somewhere inside they know their needs are not being met and it affects how they feel about society and their place in it. On the surface they are gobbling down swirly applesauce and smiling through sticky teeth, but underneath I think they know they're being ripped off.

Go ahead, rip me to shreds!









ETA: Not that this opinion causes me to say anything aloud to other mamas, I think they should do what they want. But I felt I had to address the "my child eats only this" and the "there's a war going on" parts of the discussion.

that is very interesting. Thank you for sharing that.


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch* 
LMAO...

As for the overhead shield carseat thing and how "everybody" should know they're not optimal, well, that's not entirely true either. I have a bachelor's degree, consider myself well educated, am married to an educated man, blah blah blah all that crap. If I hadn't gone to parenting message boards before ds was born, I would have NO idea that overhead shields were not optimal. Seriously. They still make them, and it's what my (educated) sister used for her dd, so before I went to mommy sites I was totally planning on getting one for my ds because they looked easier to use.

So there ya go. If you're not a person who surfs the 'net or goes to mommy websites, it IS possible to really not know that overhead shields aren't great to use.


I think what you wrote bears repeating. Its so easy when you are online to think that everyone is online spending hours doing research but I know plenty of college educated folks who don't research all things parenting related. Many folks rely on instincts and what others have told them, I can easily see where someone might think a overhead shield looks safer and go that route, after all they are being sold so why wouldn't they be safe is probably the logic many folks use.

Shay


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## boysrus (Dec 2, 2001)

I think that it comes across very judgemental in the way you worded the title. Low Standards is a judgement. A sigh after that also comes across as judgement to me.
I also disagree witht he notion that if she is feeding her kids certain foods, this means she is ignorant about food. Some people read all about nutrition and then still decide to feed their family a certain way


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

Yep, too judgmental. Applesauce and apple juice in any form are most definitely NOT the worst things she could be feeding them...and at least she does have them in car seats!


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Look at the title. Yes, you are being judgmental, not to mention... get over yourself, please. "Low standards"? Good gravy.

However, if you feel like being judgmental you will always be in very good company. There's nothing moms like to do more than point out how the other moms are doing it all wrong.







:


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShadowMom* 
Look at the title. Yes, you are being judgmental, not to mention... get over yourself, please. "Low standards"? Good gravy.

However, if you feel like being judgmental you will always be in very good company. There's nothing moms like to do more than point out how the other moms are doing it all wrong.







:

You know, now that you mention it... the title is exactly the reason why I got defensive over this post. The thread title is very offending and judgmental. Especially given that we're talking about apple sauce and apple juice.


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## devster4fun (Jan 28, 2007)

I saw the thread title for a few days and decided not to click on it. I figured it was another sad story of parents abusing or neglecting their children.

I just finished reading every page....

I agree with the majority of posters who are a little put off by the thread title and assumptions made about the other Mom.

There have been so many times in life and Motherhood, when I'm just doing the best I can. If someone approached me to point out what was wrong with my actions, it might have been the last straw.

OP: Your thread title asked people, WWYD? Your OP asked for opinions. You now have over 120 responses with varying opinions. I hope you don't feel attacked for people doing what you asked.


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## MaryTheres (Mar 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
Well....I didn't say anything about this at first, because I always seem to be the only mama who cares about kids running around with food.

My kids were raised to eat sitting nicely. They don't have to be quiet or solemn, but they were not allowed to run around, lie down, or be raucous during meal/snack times. I would expect the same rules at daycare.

Honestly, I think the odds of a kid choking on their food is higher than being hurt by an old-fashioned carseat.

2tadpoles, I know this is off topic but how do you accomplish this? I ask only because my DS loves to walk around and eat... He walks all around the house eating (raisans, animal crackers, goldfish and pretzles














and "sharing" his snack with the dog... If he has to sit and eat he often will not eat (I think he gets bored sitting to eat). Anyway, do you have any tips for 'raising children to sit and eat nicely"? TIA


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## thebarkingbird (Dec 2, 2005)

raising "happy well adjusted" kids is SO much more of an accomplishment than raising kids who only put "good" food in their mouths or who never use a swear word. i might ask her how she gets her kids to live their lives well and in harmony with others. if she feeds them lots of junk she's probably busy.

of course, i'm always feeling like i fall short on both counts so i might ask you for some advice too







there were times in my life where i just bought the kiddo something frozen so that i could play with him at all in a day. some mothers don't have low standards but all of us only have 24 hours in a day!


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Yep it annoys me. Sorry they're "ripping you a new one".

It also irks me when parents are so lax when it comes to car seats.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *m9m9m9* 
Sure, go ahead and tell a mom with 3 small kids she is doing it all wrong. After all you have 1 kid and you know all about parenting.


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## Adastra (May 30, 2007)

Also - the idea that we "right-minded" moms would like to do something about other people's parenting is a little, ummm, I don't know, judgey?

Have we beat this horse to death yet?http://www.mothering.com/discussions...lies/winky.gif


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I'm usually the 1st one to judge, lol, but you're going too far. Geesh! Cut her some slack.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShadowMom* 
Look at the title. Yes, you are being judgmental, not to mention... get over yourself, please. "Low standards"? Good gravy.

However, if you feel like being judgmental you will always be in very good company. There's nothing moms like to do more than point out how the other moms are doing it all wrong.







:

Wonderful post!!!! Totally agree!!!


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## Village Mama (Jul 22, 2004)

Well... carp!!! I consider myself to be fairly well educated. We used a carseat with an overhead shield up to a couple of weeks ago. It is 5 years old. My oldest used it, then my younger one. I know they still sell them here, so I didnt really think about it. ( I find them annoying to use though) We have been car free for about 8 months now and use a car share once a week. My oldest son just turned six and just hit the 40 pound mark, so we bought him a booster seat. Our old vehicle only had lap belts,. We werent quite sure what to get for him as all of the boosters I have seen require a shoulder belt... ( and we didnt know if we would be able to just fix the vehicle we had or get somthing else)now that we know our new vehicle will have them we switched the carseats over. Even the other" good" seat we have is probably considered to be really crappy here and close to its expiry date.
I " knew" that there are really good seats out there. I didnt open any of the threads about carseats after a while to be honest. I couldn't afford any of the seats that are recommended as a " must" around here... let alone two!!! I didn't want to get myself all wound up about it! In my neighbourhood though, we have some of the better carseats around! ( shield and all!) Except one other mama... who is an MDC mama! So, no, it isnt rocket science.... I dont know why I feel all defensive!!! But some people are just plodding through thier day to day doiing the best they can!


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## avent (Mar 13, 2006)

OP, I agree with the other posts that say the thread title is perhaps inflammatory.

I guess I'll just start over and say this:

--I don't think it's okay to judge individuals. You usually don't know their situation, such as in this case. Sometimes it's hard and we judge anyway, as evidenced by the millions of MDC posts about SILs or MILs who love sleep training and formula, who would never nurse because their breasts are for their husbands, and had elective c-sections so they could "stay tight down there". I think the rolleyes face was made for these posts.









--I think it's totally fine to judge foods and their quality, regardless of whether others eat them or not, and whether they feel defensive that you would not eat some of the same foods they eat.

--I think it's fine to judge a society by what food it finds acceptable. I do this with the fact that our society accepts formula and bottle feeding as a default (regardless of individual situations, some of which warrant formula feeding), and continues the trend of artificial junk throughout the rest of people's lives. To me the situations are parallel, but the humans are older. In the same way mamas rail against default formula feeding I rail against feeding children after they are weaned the same oils, sugars, flavors, dried milk, synthetic vitamins, preservatives, etc. found in formulas. I think the default food given to children in our society is sad. Sometimes it's warranted (like formula is) for health and economic reasons but for the most part it's just the unexamined default. As a society that we've been misled and removed from our nature (like formula companies do to us) by being told we should eat these foods. And I'm not apologetic about feeling that way, although I would never say that aloud to anyone whose situation I didn't know well.

So, IMO, since you asked, I do think you're being judgemental. Judge the food and the society, but not this particular mama. It's not snobby or judgmental to think this food is junk. The phrase "junk food" has become so overused it fails to register anymore. And I'll throw in my unsolicited advice to not say things to people because as you've seen (even before I chimed in earlier) people can get quite defensive about food.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avent* 
So, IMO, since you asked, I do think you're being judgemental. Judge the food and the society, but not this particular mama. It's not snobby or judgmental to think this food is junk. The phrase "junk food" has become so overused it fails to register anymore. And I'll throw in my unsolicited advice to not say things to people because as you've seen (even before I chimed in earlier) people can get quite defensive about food.

ITA with the above. And would add, no matter how well you think you hide it, when you've got the attitude of "Oh, sigh, here let me FIX you" it shows through loud and clear. Really.

I think some people *can* mention food things, ect. and make a difference, but it tends to be the people who first care about the individual person or are able to remain neutral. Just based on the tone of the OP, I would say that probably nothing said is going to make an impact on this individual. I think that probably you could make a case for stricter policing on sharing. If you work with the school on that, you'll be doing them a huge favor in the long run...because sweet as the teacher is, if she doesn't bother to watch out for that then that might prove fatal to a kiddo with allergies or uncomfortable to one with sensitivities.

And if you hold a carseat fair, which I think is an awesome idea, hopefully some of the people who have safer carseats that have been rendered only partially effective because of incorrect installation will get corrections to things that could be similarly injurious but are less obvious.

Both of those things will take considerably more time and energy and effort than tsking at an individual mama, but I hope the OP will consider doing them...because they'd benefit the school community as a whole, and would take care of some of the problem without unnecessary hurt.


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## Marcee (Jan 23, 2007)

Well fiddlesticks...my ped recommended the over the head type for my escapee daughter. (It did work by the way) I had no clue that they were "sub-standard" And here I thought that I was doing it "ALL RIGHT"....lol

I know that we all judge but, I see people without kids in carseats all the time and it would thrill me if my only "complaint about my neighbors were their "low standards"


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama2Bug* 
Dude. Word.
Maybe your kid will drink organic goat's milk and eat sprouted bread sandwiches. Lucky you..









: well, i'm lucky then. ds1 has been eating toasted alfalfa sprout sandwiches since he was 2 and will ask for them sometimes (when we're at the store, he'll ask if we can get sprouts so i can make sandwiches w/them)

eta i know that i'm lucky wrt this. my son enjoys junky food too, but he will eat more healthy foods than many children, so i'm blessed


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avent* 
--I think it's totally fine to judge foods and their quality, regardless of whether others eat them or not, and whether they feel defensive that you would not eat some of the same foods they eat.

--I think it's fine to judge a society by what food it finds acceptable. I do this with the fact that our society accepts formula and bottle feeding as a default (regardless of individual situations, some of which warrant formula feeding), and continues the trend of artificial junk throughout the rest of people's lives. To me the situations are parallel, but the humans are older. In the same way mamas rail against default formula feeding I rail against feeding children after they are weaned the same oils, sugars, flavors, dried milk, synthetic vitamins, preservatives, etc. found in formulas. I think the default food given to children in our society is sad. Sometimes it's warranted (like formula is) for health and economic reasons but for the most part it's just the unexamined default. As a society that we've been misled and removed from our nature (like formula companies do to us) by being told we should eat these foods. And I'm not apologetic about feeling that way, although I would never say that aloud to anyone whose situation I didn't know well.

So, IMO, since you asked, I do think you're being judgemental. Judge the food and the society, but not this particular mama. It's not snobby or judgmental to think this food is junk. The phrase "junk food" has become so overused it fails to register anymore. And I'll throw in my unsolicited advice to not say things to people because as you've seen (even before I chimed in earlier) people can get quite defensive about food.









:


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## siennasmom (Mar 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 







: well, i'm lucky then. ds1 has been eating toasted alfalfa sprout sandwiches since he was 2 and will ask for them sometimes (when we're at the store, he'll ask if we can get sprouts so i can make sandwiches w/them)

eta i know that i'm lucky wrt this. my son enjoys junky food too, but he will eat more healthy foods than many children, so i'm blessed

I am NOT judging, I promise







, but just as an FYI, sprouts can harbor salmonella and e. coli, and it's pretty much impossible to wash it off. I happen to love sprout sandwiches, too, but I'm too nervous to feed them to my kids. It's not a huge risk, but I am a big chicken when it comes to e. coli.


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siennasmom* 
I am NOT judging, I promise







, but just as an FYI, sprouts can harbor salmonella and e. coli, and it's pretty much impossible to wash it off. I happen to love sprout sandwiches, too, but I'm too nervous to feed them to my kids. It's not a huge risk, but I am a big chicken when it comes to e. coli.

Is this possible to avoid if you sprout your own?

(Sprouts are pretty easy to produce.)


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaryTheres* 
2tadpoles, I know this is off topic but how do you accomplish this? I ask only because my DS loves to walk around and eat... He walks all around the house eating (raisans, animal crackers, goldfish and pretzles














and "sharing" his snack with the dog... If he has to sit and eat he often will not eat (I think he gets bored sitting to eat). Anyway, do you have any tips for 'raising children to sit and eat nicely"? TIA

Disclaimer: My kids don't have eating issues of any sort. I understand in advance that my methods may not apply for those who have trouble getting food into their children. /disclaimer

We ate sitting at the table, and that's it. They weren't allowed to walk around with food, partly for safety reasons and partly because I preferred that their meal-mess be contained to one area.

When they were full (or otherwise bored of eating), they could leave the table and go play. We weren't the sorts who made the kids sit until everyone was finished. The food stayed at the table, and when everyone seemed to be done, the food was put away. This applied to snacks as well as meals.

The way I see it, is that if they are bored with eating, then they're not really hungry.

Now, when I say "sitting nicely," I don't mean prim and proper. My younger son is almost 12 and still has ants in his pants half the time. He would wiggle and squirm in his chair, and sometimes would eat standing at the table....but he'd still eat.


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## siennasmom (Mar 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sparklefairy* 
Is this possible to avoid if you sprout your own?

(Sprouts are pretty easy to produce.)

Yes. It depends on what you grow them in and how you handle them, but you should be fine if you grow your own.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sparklefairy* 
Is this possible to avoid if you sprout your own?

(Sprouts are pretty easy to produce.)

Yes, I wonder about this too, because we sprout our own.


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## Zach'smom (Nov 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaryTheres* 
2tadpoles, I know this is off topic but how do you accomplish this? I ask only because my DS loves to walk around and eat... He walks all around the house eating (raisans, animal crackers, goldfish and pretzles














and "sharing" his snack with the dog... If he has to sit and eat he often will not eat (I think he gets bored sitting to eat). Anyway, do you have any tips for 'raising children to sit and eat nicely"? TIA

Ds is 5 yrs and I don't think he has ever sat and ate nicely.







But nobody in our house is allowed to walk around with food. Meals and snacks are eaten at the table. It can be the kitchen table, dining room table, patio table, picnic table, restaurant table... you get the idea. That is the way it has always been. That is all ds has ever known. When he is done eating he is free to get up and leave whenever he is ready.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I know a really cool mama who had a couple of very old carseats. They worried me, but I couldn't bring myself to say anything, since I couldn't do anything about them . When I moved my kids to boosters, I gave her my Britax. Just said "We're done with these, do you want them?" And she did. Maybe keep her in mind when you upgrade or something?

As for junk food...I don't like to buy too much junk, but my kids have eaten junk. However, what I have noticed with the now- grown friends of my oldest (who is 18) is that they do not appear any worse for wear. They seem very smart, I don't see a lot of overweight kids (mostly because of socioeconomic reasons, I think) or sickly kids. It seems genetics trumps all.

The girl I knew who ate crap everyday (and I adored her mother)-- and I mean- fruit rollups, ho ho's, creamsicles by the box, is an absolutely stunning, slender, athletic 18 yr old with amazing muscle definition and a good brain that got her into a highly selective college. Plus, she's generous as can be, with no food baggage. Sometimes when I see her, I recall her preschool lunch box of rainbow colors...and I remember how horrified I was. Now I think 'What did I worry about again?"

This doesn't mean I buy tons of food for my kids that I don't think are good for them...but as I've watched all these kids grow into healthy older teens (we've lived in the same general area for nearly 19 yrs), that stuff seems so far away and just not relevant.


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avent* 
I can totally see the OP's point about the food, the car seat, not so much.

I think as a society we have moved away from our children's natural inclinations to eat the right foods. And I say this as someone who really struggled to get my son to eat, so I'm not clueless to the frustration and tears of having a child who doesn't eat much.

But I don't understand the "that's all my child will eat" mentality, I really don't. What would you have done 100 years ago then, before blue applesauce and fruit chews and chicken nuggets? I'm really asking. I feel I can never get a good answer to this question IRL from the "that's all I can get my child to eat" mamas. So I'm asking here.

By the way, research done in the 1930s showed a correlation between the nutrition a child receives and their level of criminal activity. I do think having an adequately fed populace, that receives all of the nutrients needed for healthy human life, affects the levels of things like crime and war. I think people are born knowing instinctively what they need to eat (like all animals) and if we don't provide that somewhere inside they know their needs are not being met and it affects how they feel about society and their place in it. On the surface they are gobbling down swirly applesauce and smiling through sticky teeth, but underneath I think they know they're being ripped off.

Go ahead, rip me to shreds!









ETA: Not that this opinion causes me to say anything aloud to other mamas, I think they should do what they want. But I felt I had to address the "my child eats only this" and the "there's a war going on" parts of the discussion.

I agree with you incidentally. Because we get worked up about children "eating" doesn't mean that they are going to die because they didn't get McDonalds daily.

<edit to say - MOST children do not have to have therapy to eat. And sometimes those that do have issues are being fed things that make them WORSE anyways.>


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siennasmom* 
I am NOT judging, I promise







, but just as an FYI, sprouts can harbor salmonella and e. coli, and it's pretty much impossible to wash it off. I happen to love sprout sandwiches, too, but I'm too nervous to feed them to my kids. It's not a huge risk, but I am a big chicken when it comes to e. coli.

Isn't that the case with a lot of things, though? Cantaloupe comes to mind.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amitymama* 
Seriously? Sorry, that just made me









If I received a letter from a parent about the _da-dum-DUM_ 'dangers of artificial colors' along with research on preservatives and had a finger wagged in my face for daring to expose their little Johnny to such horrors, I would laugh my butt off. Then I would tear up the letter and laugh some more. Then I would go out and buy bright blue applesauce and send my kids to school with it everyday and enjoy the thought of that parent's head exploding.









Well I know it will not likely send him to the hospital like a severe peanut allergy, but I will assume that you simply don't understand that if he eats a bright green popsicle, he will be within minutes screaming and pounding on the floor in whatever agony is going on inside him. Otherwise, you would realize it's not my head that's going to explode, it's my heart for my child's suffering.

I assume you are not a sadist, but just ignorant of food coloring reaction.

I'm glad you don't have children who react to food colorings.


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## Chavelamomela (Sep 25, 2006)

Okay, okay.

I WAS WRONG!!!!
I WAS JUDGEMENTAL!!!
I WAS THOUGHTLES!!!








:







:

















































:

YES, you are right that I was quick to judge this more experienced mom...

And yes THE TITLE OF THE POST WAS BAD TOO...EVEN THE "SIGH"

Now everyone thinks I am uptight judgmental mom with a super-easy
kid who thinks everyone else should be exactly like me...um, not quite.

But yeah, I love my kid to bits, have a great relationship with him, and do with that society was more encouraging of healthy parenting practices...sigh...(can I put a "sigh" here?)


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 
Okay, okay.

I WAS WRONG!!!!
I WAS JUDGEMENTAL!!!
I WAS THOUGHTLES!!!








:







:

















































:

YES, you are right that I was quick to judge this more experienced mom...

And yes THE TITLE OF THE POST WAS BAD TOO...EVEN THE "SIGH"

Now everyone thinks I am uptight judgmental mom with a super-easy
kid who thinks everyone else should be exactly like me...um, not quite.

But yeah, I love my kid to bits, have a great relationship with him, and do with that society was more encouraging of healthy parenting practices...sigh...(can I put a "sigh" here?)

Encouragement is wonderful. Judgment, not quite so much.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 
Okay, okay.

I WAS WRONG!!!!
I WAS JUDGEMENTAL!!!
I WAS THOUGHTLES!!!








:







:

















































:

YES, you are right that I was quick to judge this more experienced mom...

And yes THE TITLE OF THE POST WAS BAD TOO...EVEN THE "SIGH"

Now everyone thinks I am uptight judgmental mom with a super-easy
kid who thinks everyone else should be exactly like me...um, not quite.

But yeah, I love my kid to bits, have a great relationship with him, and do with that society was more encouraging of healthy parenting practices...sigh...(can I put a "sigh" here?)

I'm impressed you stuck around, mama. You must be cool.


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## avent (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 

Now everyone thinks I am uptight judgmental mom with a super-easy
kid who thinks everyone else should be exactly like me...um, not quite.


I don't think that at all. You sound like a great mom who cares about what's going on around you.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qestia* 
If her kids are happy and well-adjusted and her carseat does meet safety standards what exactly, is the problem?

Well, after the fact







but







:.

And, I gotta say this is more my rxn on principle even tho we can't do sugar, etc:

Quote:

if I received a letter from a parent about the da-dum-DUM 'dangers of artificial colors' along with research on preservatives and had a finger wagged in my face for daring to expose *MY* little Johnny to such horrors, I would laugh my butt off. Then I would tear up the letter and laugh some more.
BUT I agree, OP you're pretty cool to stick around and to care about (your) kids!









oh btw: you can edit your title if you want--just do an "Advanced" edit. fyi

eta: just clarifying thh quote to include my kid--no-one else's


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## offwing (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chavelamomela* 
Now everyone thinks I am uptight judgmental mom with a super-easy kid who thinks everyone else should be exactly like me...um, not quite.

I didn't think any of those things ... I only thought you were stuggling a bit on when to MYOB!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *offwing* 
I didn't think any of those things ... I only thought you were stuggling a bit on when to MYOB!









Yes, I don't think anyone was trying to just slam you into the ground.







To echo some other posters, you asked what we thought and we responded. I think many of us have had our own judgmental moments. Don't sweat it!


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Quote:

I'm impressed you stuck around, mama. You must be cool.
Yea, mama, you rock!


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## amitymama (Nov 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
Well I know it will not likely send him to the hospital like a severe peanut allergy, but I will assume that you simply don't understand that if he eats a bright green popsicle, he will be within minutes screaming and pounding on the floor in whatever agony is going on inside him. Otherwise, you would realize it's not my head that's going to explode, it's my heart for my child's suffering.

I assume you are not a sadist, but just ignorant of food coloring reaction.

I'm glad you don't have children who react to food colorings.

If your child reacts that badly to food colorings, then it is YOUR job and HIS job to avoid eating it. Why should ALL the children at his school be disallowed from bringing it/eating it because of your son's reaction to it? I assume the illness is not airborne like a peanut allergy and must be physically ingested to have the severe reaction you described above. The teachers should be supervising the lunch period and making sure he doesn't swap food with anyone (if he's not old enough to understand, though I would think even a relatively young child could understand the importance of not trading food if he's had such severe problems from it).

I'm sorry your DC has such a reaction to these things, I really am, but it's just not fair or practical to force other parents to abide by YOUR rules for one child, and for something that is easily avoided -- JUST DON'T SHARE FOOD.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

op...i don't think that you were being judgemental. i think that some people reacted (consciously or subconsciously) to your thread title, but i don't think your concern is out of line.

listen, i was called judgemental because i happened to mention to a mama, out of my concern for her dd, that there was a lot of sugar in the not one but two containers of soy yogurt that her child was eating per day. it says so, plain as day, right there on the container, and i wasn't spouting off opinion, nor did i even suggest that she might want to find another food that wasn't as sugary. i stated a fact, neutrally, and was seen as being judgemental. sometimes you just can't win, no matter what. and i learned the lesson the hard way, that no matter how caring or neutral you are, someone somewhere is going to take you for a judgemental b!tch for even mentioning it. c'est la vie, unfortunately.

as for the car seat issue, your concerns are valid as well. it's so funny to me that everyone says that YOU are being judgemental for noticing that a car seat is unsafe/expired...BUT it's fine if you have the friendly neighborhood car seat tech come by and give her the same advice.

i'm sure most pediatricians out there would say that foods with artifical colors, hfcs, processed/bleached grains etc. are not even close to being optimal nutrition. in fact, i would venture to guess that many of them would suggest that this food is to be avoided for the most part.

it's considered ADVICE for a doctor to say that to a mother, but it's miraculously judgemental for one mother to say the SAME THING to another mother?

by the way, i love my pediatrician's office. right when you walk in, there is a big pile of junk food (soda, candies, fruit roll ups etc) on the receptionists counter, with a whole bunch of nutritional information flyers. on the soda bottle is a sign that says "DIABETES IN A BOTTLE" in big black block letters. it's ok for my doctor to do this, but if i (for instance...i really would not do this because i'm not a very confrontational person) walked up to a mother that was giving their child some sugar laden beverage, and i said "hey mama, do you know that soda is basically diabetes in a bottle"...i can only imagine the choice ua violation words that i would be called here.








:


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
on the soda bottle is a sign that says "DIABETES IN A BOTTLE" in big black block letters. it's ok for my doctor to do this,

THAT is cool!


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amitymama* 
Seriously? Sorry, that just made me









If I received a letter from a parent about the _da-dum-DUM_ 'dangers of artificial colors' along with research on preservatives and had a finger wagged in my face for daring to expose their little Johnny to such horrors, I would laugh my butt off. Then I would tear up the letter and laugh some more. Then I would go out and buy bright blue applesauce and send my kids to school with it everyday and enjoy the thought of that parent's head exploding.









this statement stands out to me as the single most judgemental, and perhaps the SADDEST post i've ever seen on mdc.








:


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

No, no, I disagree. There was one on the peanut allergy post that struck me more forcibly.

ya know, I'm not going to lecture someone else on how to feed their own children but when OUR actions affect OTHER'S kids, that's totally different. As a quick example, my son has tree nut allergies yet Moms would still send in trailmix and cookies w/nuts.







:


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## Zach'smom (Nov 5, 2004)

If the carseat is expired and unsafe just tell her. I had no idea that carseats expired until someone told me. I was very thankful that another mama told me about that. The thought never crossed my sleep deprived mind.

The food issue is a snarky one. Pretty much no matter what you feed your children someone is going to feel that they are feeding their kids better things. It is impossible for that not to happen.

I would really feel awful if someone thought I had low standards because of something my child eats. I love him more then anything and everyday try to do what is best for him. Saying that a caring mama with well adjusted kids has low standards just seems kind of harsh.


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

I think if the car seat issue bothers you, you should mention it. I agree with the other posters that said you should talk to the school about the sharing food thing. I don't really see how you can tell this woman what her kid eats is bad without offending her but if you tell her you would like her to have her kid not let others share maybe she will try harder to keep it away from your kid? Personally I don't think it is a big deal what someone else's kids are eating..maybe when the kid is at home she makes her eat veggies and fruit and she just packs that stuff for school cause she knows her kid is more likely to eat that...maybe her father died and she is doing the best she can...maybe she is just lazy...who knows? But I don't equate poor nutrition with beating kids...sorry....


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amitymama* 
I'm sorry your DC has such a reaction to these things, I really am, but it's just not fair or practical to force other parents to abide by YOUR rules for one child, and for something that is easily avoided -- JUST DON'T SHARE FOOD.

To be honest I see two sides; but not the third, where 1-4 year olds should be expected to exert the self-control not to accept SWEETS when offered.

I see that either the teachers should prevent the food sharing, or the parents should not bring in dangerous foods.

Frankly given the effect of these substances on children whose parents do not even believe them to be sensitive, I do not think it is out of line for a SCHOOL to not want behavior modifying substances ingested by the children at school.
http://www.foodcomm.org.uk/additive_2002_full.htm


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
To be honest I see two sides; but not the third, where 1-4 year olds should be expected to exert the self-control not to accept SWEETS when offered.

I see that either the teachers should prevent the food sharing, or the parents should not bring in dangerous foods.

Frankly given the effect of these substances on children whose parents do not even believe them to be sensitive, I do not think it is out of line for a SCHOOL to not want behavior modifying substances ingested by the children at school.
http://www.foodcomm.org.uk/additive_2002_full.htm


When my DS was in preschool, there were two kids on Gf/Cf diets, one nut allergic kid and multiple children who could not deal with food coloring. Plus our district has a ban on any home made goodies coming into the classroom. Basically for birthdays all the parents ended up bringing in fruit juice popsicles. I also brought all natural fruit flavored applesauce tubes one time too.At the beginning it was a PITA for all of us but we did find fun and healthy alternatives that the kids enjoyed, we just had to look. Having two kids that are food coloring sensitive, I am with ya on this one. It's no different in my mind than a nut or wheat allergy, just because it won't kill them doesn't mean that it doesn't cause them harm. And I still have an issue with any teacher that lets kids run around with food and share it. I have taught for years and we had no issue with it because if a child was running around with food the food got taken away and they could gladly have it back when they were sitting down. I have also taught in day care and the standards for appropriate meals in a day care setting are really high, no junk food is allowed, it's really not that hard.


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## cee3 (Oct 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
listen, i was called judgemental because i happened to mention to a mama, out of my concern for her dd, that there was a lot of sugar in the not one but two containers of soy yogurt that her child was eating per day. it says so, plain as day, right there on the container, and i wasn't spouting off opinion, nor did i even suggest that she might want to find another food that wasn't as sugary. i stated a fact, neutrally, and was seen as being judgemental. sometimes you just can't win, no matter what. and i learned the lesson the hard way, that no matter how caring or neutral you are, someone somewhere is going to take you for a judgemental b!tch for even mentioning it. c'est la vie, unfortunately.


I wouldn't consider you judgemental for saying something, but I would think you were incredibly intrusive and I would tell you to MYOB. If it says that there's a lot of sugar, right there on the container, then why do you assume the mother can't read? Why do you assume she would make the same choices as you would?

Quote:

it's considered ADVICE for a doctor to say that to a mother, but it's miraculously judgemental for one mother to say the SAME THING to another mother?
The difference is that the parent is going to the doctor and paying him for advice. The parent is not asking you, another mother, what your opinion is. If another mom did ask your opinion, I think it would be perfectly reasonable for you to express it.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cee3* 
I wouldn't consider you judgemental for saying something, but I would think you were incredibly intrusive and I would tell you to MYOB. If it says that there's a lot of sugar, right there on the container, then why do you assume the mother can't read? Why do you assume she would make the same choices as you would?

The difference is that the parent is going to the doctor and paying him for advice. The parent is not asking you, another mother, what your opinion is. If another mom did ask your opinion, I think it would be perfectly reasonable for you to express it.

oh, ok. just to get things straight, by your accounts then:

A doctor, being paid for his/her services saying that artificial colors in foods are harmful=helpful advice.

A fellow mother, unpaid and unsolicited, saying that artificial colors in foods are harmful = judgemental.

then i think i'm going to go to medical school. then NOBODY can call me out on being judgemental, i'll have those magical letters after my name that gives me a free pass to dispense advice all day with impunity AND BONUS...i'll get paid for it. i'll be an M.D., after all, not "just a mom" that needs to mind my own business.







:

and to clarify about the conversation, it went something like...

friend: "oh, my dd is such a good eater, she eats TWO of these each day. isn't that great?"
me: "yes, it's wonderful that she likes that so much. they do have a lot of sugar in them though."

i'm open to criticism so if anyone has any ideas of how better to say it, by all means please share.

and between friends, if you know something that might be harmful to a child, to me it is wrong to keep that information from others. does it matter if someone knowingly makes certain choices vs. perpetuating a habit or out of complete ignorance? go on over to the vaccination forum or the case against circumcision and you can read story after story of mothers expressing regret over vaxing or circing, and "if only someone had told me."







: even on this thread alone, posters have mentioned that they didn't know until now how the ingestion of artificial colors can have some serious effects, or that carseats expire after a certain amount of time.


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## siennasmom (Mar 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
and to clarify about the conversation, it went something like...

friend: "oh, my dd is such a good eater, she eats TWO of these each day. isn't that great?"
me: "yes, it's wonderful that she likes that so much. they do have a lot of sugar in them though."

i'm open to criticism so if anyone has any ideas of how better to say it, by all means please share.

"Really? My kid would be bouncing off the walls if s/he ate that much sugar. I'm glad it doesn't affect her behavior, since she likes it so much."

There is no criticism expressed or implied, but you still get the information across.


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## cee3 (Oct 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
oh, ok. just to get things straight, by your accounts then:

A doctor, being paid for his/her services saying that artificial colors in foods are harmful=helpful advice.

A fellow mother, unpaid and unsolicited, saying that artificial colors in foods are harmful = judgemental. [snark deleted]

Actually, my exact words were, "I wouldn't consider you judgemental for saying something..."

If I was friends with you and I asked you what you thought about sugar in a kid's diet, sugar in a particular item I was feeding my kids, etc., your opinion would then be solicited, whether you had letters after your name or not. I think *siennasmom* has a great way of wording a response to your friend's comment (if any response besides, "That's great." is really even necessary). Good grief, whatever happened to a polite conversation??


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siennasmom* 
"Really? My kid would be bouncing off the walls if s/he ate that much sugar. I'm glad it doesn't affect her behavior, since she likes it so much."

There is no criticism expressed or implied, but you still get the information across.

yes, point taken, it's always a good idea to share your own experiences etc. (dd wasn't born yet though...so i couldn't use that line...)

i'm still not seeing where saying that something has a lot of sugar in it is a criticism, overt or covert.

so that brings us back to the op...can anyone come up with statements that the op could possibly say to this other mother that are not critical, not judgemental, and are emotionally neutral, clear and informational? is it possible to turn this thread in a positive direction and begin a discussion about how we all can learn about mature communication skills? it takes a certain amount of skill to foster discussion and disseminate information without offending or coming off as preachy.

i'll start:

regarding car seat safety: "i was just reading something recently about car seats and i was SO surprised to learn that they expire after 5 years. i was thinking about keeping dd's carseat around in the event that we have another child, but it might be expired by then. you've had 3 kids, do you have any suggestions about that for me?"


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## m9m9m9 (Jun 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
and to clarify about the conversation, it went something like...

friend: "oh, my dd is such a good eater, she eats TWO of these each day. isn't that great?"
me: "yes, it's wonderful that she likes that so much. they do have a lot of sugar in them though."

i'm open to criticism so if anyone has any ideas of how better to say it, by all means please share.

and between friends, if you know something that might be harmful to a child, to me it is wrong to keep that information from others.

What you said:

friend: "oh, my dd is such a good eater, she eats TWO of these each day. isn't that great?"
me: "yes, it's wonderful that she likes that so much. they do have a lot of sugar in them though."

What it reads like to me :
friend: "thank god I finally found something my child will eat without a major struggle and that is semi healthy"
me: "yeah, but since you are such a crappy parent you can't possibly realize how harmful all that sugar is. I on the other hand am a wonderful parent and would never stoop so low as to claim soy yogurt twice a day was healthy.

Yes, amazing and great harm can come to a child from eating 2 soy yogurts that have sugar in them on any given day. Wraping up snarky criticism in a blanket of "I was only trying to be helpful" doesn't make it any less of what it is. You do something benign that your friend considers equally crappy parenting ~ she most likely has the tact and the social grace to realize its her issue and not say anything.

Now let say you had this hypothetical conversation:

friend: "oh, my dd is such a good eater, she eats TWO of these each day. isn't that great?"
me: "She must really like them. You know I saw some on sale at Whole Foods that I think she would probably like also It's called "such and such brand" (insert brand of soy yogurt that has less sugar or some brand of yogurt with less sugar.) You should check it out. "

Then I would say you are being helpful.

Maggie


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cee3* 
Actually, my exact words were, "I wouldn't consider you judgemental for saying something..."

If I was friends with you and I asked you what you thought about sugar in a kid's diet, sugar in a particular item I was feeding my kids, etc., your opinion would then be solicited, whether you had letters after your name or not. I think *siennasmom* has a great way of wording a response to your friend's comment (if any response besides, "That's great." is really even necessary). Good grief, whatever happened to a polite conversation??

so it's impolite to make a statement like that? gosh, i'm starting to think that my social skills really suck.


----------



## wifeandmom (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
A doctor, being paid for his/her services saying that artificial colors in foods are harmful=helpful advice.

A fellow mother, unpaid and unsolicited, saying that artificial colors in foods are harmful = judgemental.

then i think i'm going to go to medical school. then NOBODY can call me out on being judgemental, i'll have those magical letters after my name that gives me a free pass to dispense advice all day with impunity AND BONUS...i'll get paid for it. i'll be an M.D., after all, not "just a mom" that needs to mind my own business.







:

If you can't see the difference between paying a professional for advice on certain issues and giving out unsolicited advice in a social setting, I'm not sure what to tell you.

And *obviously*, parents CAN and DO 'call out' doctors when they give advice that the parent deems inappropriate for whatever reason. If my children's pediatrician routinely gave out whacky advice, I'd find another doctor. I suppose in the case of the meddling friend, I'd find another friend.

Quote:

and to clarify about the conversation, it went something like...

friend: "oh, my dd is such a good eater, she eats TWO of these each day. isn't that great?"
me: "yes, it's wonderful that she likes that so much. they do have a lot of sugar in them though."
Do you not hear how judgmental that sounds? You might as well tell the friend she's a moron. If you truly desire to impart information that she is unaware of, I'd think not offending her might be high on the list of priorities.

Something like 'I think my kids would like those too, but I worry about them eating too much sugar. I wonder how much sugar is in them?' Or 'Mine love ABC brand. Have you ever tried those?'

Quote:

and between friends, if you know something that might be harmful to a child, to me it is wrong to keep that information from others. *does it matter if someone knowingly makes certain choices vs. perpetuating a habit or out of complete ignorance*?
To me, it most certainly DOES make a difference if a parent is KNOWINGLY choosing to do something that you don't approve of vs. just not knowing about the possible risks. If a parent is aware of certain risks and chooses to take those risks anyway (assuming the choice in question is legal of course), it is _none of your business_. Plain and simple. You can certainly attempt to tell the other parent why you choose differently, but once you know the other parent is aware of why you do things different, it would be incredibly inappropriate to continue harping on it IMO.

If it's something you just can't get over, find another friend. I certainly have no desire to be friends with someone who is constantly telling me all the things I'm doing 'wrong' in their opinion. That would get old fast. Thankfully, I've been blessed with friendships where we are respectful of our individual choices and our right to make those choices, even when we disagree.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *m9m9m9* 
Yes, amazing and great harm can come to a child from eating 2 soy yogurts that have sugar in them on any given day. Wraping up snarky criticism in a blanket of "I was only trying to be helpful" doesn't make it any less of what it is. You do something benign that your friend considers equally crappy parenting ~ she most likely has the tact and the social grace to realize its her issue and not say anything.


and you have the tact and social grace to basically say to my face that i have no tact or social grace.

thanks, you just made my day.

(ftr, i actually did tell her about the soy yogurts that i saw in another store that were less $$, as well as tell her about a website that i saw with the recipe for making your own soy yogurt at home, so that she could control the type and amount of sweetener in it as well as it being a boatload cheaper.)

aaah, this is where having discussions like this on the internet can be challenging. without the backstory as well as knowing that kind of relationship there was to begin with, it's impossible to see things as they actually are. this friend is very interested in nutrition and we've had many discussions about it, and she very often asked me for advice, so there was already a precedent set of talking about these things because this was a big concern of hers and a big interest of mine.

so it makes me a crappy friend to tell the truth about something.
but what kind of friend would i be if i didn't call attention to something that i knew was of concern to her?

rock and a hard place, indeed.

anyways...

this is getting OT, as i mentioned a few posts up can we brainstorm on ways that the op could possibly address this with TACT and SOCIAL GRACE?


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I'm gonna have to go. Someone would throw rocks at me for telling them about all the dangers of eating soy, and then _I'd be the rude one._







:


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## cee3 (Oct 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
so it's impolite to make a statement like that? gosh, i'm starting to think that my social skills really suck.

In my opinion, yes, it was impolite. It is difficult, when you have done a lot of research about something and have a very definite opinion about it, to remember that other people just don't care what your opinion is. Trust me, I understand the impulse to be "evangelical", but most people really, really are not interested in whatever it is you're an expert in, whether that's AP, NFL, religion, the stock market, or bike riding. I actually think AP/NFL are very akin to religion in a lot of ways. Just like my aunt thinks that she is doing me a favor by writing in my Christmas card that I need to find Jesus in order to avoid eternal damnation, many of us offer up "advice" about our parenting techniques or lifestyle under the guise of just being helpful or doing someone a favor. Sometimes, I'm sure, my aunt comes across someone who welcomes her intrusion (because that is what it is), but for the most part, people are offended and don't react the way she thinks they should.


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## cee3 (Oct 24, 2005)

And now I'm wondering, with your addendum about how the conversation continued...did she actually call you judgemental (or a b----h)? Because it sounds like she responded pretty tactfully, if you continued to talk about other ways to achieve two soy yogurts per day.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
yes, point taken, it's always a good idea to share your own experiences etc. (dd wasn't born yet though...so i couldn't use that line...)




See, if it had been me and a friend without children decided to basically criticize what I was feeding my children to my face like that I probably would have been pretty ticked. You didn't even have a child yet but were telling her what to feed her child. I was a picky child, my daughter was picky for a time, if she was getting her daughter to eat soy yogurt I probably would have asked her how she got her to eat the yogurt instead of pointing out the sugar content.

As far as the OP - I do believe that you are being a bit critical of this mom's choices. No one can understand the challenges of mothering another mom's children unless you have walked a day in their shoes. My kids love veggies but they also love fruit snacks and cupcakes. Just because you see them in a cupcake moment does not mean that they never eat healthy foods. Sending applesauce with swirly colors is a lot different than sending a tub of frosting and a spoon.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
friend: "oh, my dd is such a good eater, she eats TWO of these each day. isn't that great?"
me: "yes, it's wonderful that she likes that so much. they do have a lot of sugar in them though."

i'm open to criticism so if anyone has any ideas of how better to say it, by all means please share.

.

how i address friends is different than how I would address a stranger, slight acquaintance.

close friend: "Oh my gosh!! Do you have any idea what a crap load of sugar those things have in them!? I never thought to look at the label since I bought them at the co-op but they are nothing but sugar. Natural sugar is still sugar" I might go on to mention that most soy products are over processed crap.

as for a car seat I usually just start adjusting straps or looking for expiration dates. They are used to me by now. they will actually ask me at this point.









strangers, mommies at play dates etc are totally different. lets say we were at moms group and some mom made that comment about what a healthy eater her dd is. I would probably say something like: "have you read the label on those? Until my SIL pointed out how much sugar is in them I had no idea. And she didn't think they would be so loaded with sugar until her son went crazy after eating one. We were both blown away!! I mean . .ugh.. .we got it at the health food store. we thought it would be healthy!" I try to approach it as an oversight that could happen to anyone (because it can). especially with things labeled natural or organic or sold in health food stores (co-ops and Whole Foods etc . . . ).

lets say I was having the same conversation but instead of healthy looking soy yogurts it was fruit snacks or neon applesauce I would say something like: " all that sugar and food coloring doesn't effect his behavior? those look so fun and I bet Suzie would really like them, Unfortunately sugar and artificial dyes really make her all hyper and naughty. you are fortunate that you haven't noticed anything like that from your kids."

I would not say anything to a stranger/acquaintance unless they brought it up though. There really is no good way to do it.

well for the applesauce . . if we were all having lunch together I might say something like "She really likes that apple sauce. Hot pink! How fun! Its great that she is eating so much fruit. I wonder if they make something fun like that without so much sugar/food coloring. . . my dd would really like something like that but can't have that much sugar/dye without going crazy. Do you know if they make other flavors? low sugar? without the dye? " I would only pick one though. but only if we were all eating together and it could be brought up casually.

ETA: I just saw that you didn't have kids yet. you could always have gone with " That stuff is really yummy. I love it. but be careful. I had been snarfing it down in large quantities before I realized how much sugar it had in it. I could not believe it!"


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## offwing (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
can we brainstorm on ways that the op could possibly address this with TACT and SOCIAL GRACE?

I don't know if there is any sure way to walk up to a woman you only have a bare acquaintance with and say something that at best can be taken as "You are doing something wrong with your kid".

You actually prove my point by having a back story that makes a difference. Close friends have a lot more leeway to say things. Close friends have an assumption of caring for each other. Close friends have a history of sharing personal information and giving/taking advice. And even then, more than one friendship has been estranged due to comments about someone's kids or spouse.

But saying that to some mama who you nod at a couple days out of the week while picking up at daycare? Even saying that to someone who you kind of know could really blow up in your face.

So the social grace and tact comes in by knowing when your comments are too intimate for the relationship you have. And I call comments about how someone is raising their kids pretty darn intimate to be giving unsolicited opinions on!!!


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
*as for a car seat I usually just start adjusting straps or looking for expiration dates.* They are used to me by now. they will actually ask me at this point.









No offense, but that would really irritate me! If a frien, even a good one, went in my car and started messing with my kids carseats I would probably get pretty ticked.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cee3* 
In my opinion, yes, it was impolite. It is difficult, when you have done a lot of research about something and have a very definite opinion about it, to remember that other people just don't care what your opinion is. Trust me, I understand the impulse to be "evangelical", but most people really, really are not interested in whatever it is you're an expert in, whether that's AP, NFL, religion, the stock market, or bike riding. I actually think AP/NFL are very akin to religion in a lot of ways. Just like my aunt thinks that she is doing me a favor by writing in my Christmas card that I need to find Jesus in order to avoid eternal damnation, many of us offer up "advice" about our parenting techniques in lifestyle under the guise of just being helpful or doing someone a favor. Sometimes, I'm sure, my aunt comes across someone who welcomes her intrusion (because that's is what it is), but for the most part, people are offended and don't react the way she thinks they should.

first of all, i know exactly what you're saying, we have very pushy evangelical people in our family and so i know what it feels like to be proseletyzed to, and it doesn't feel good.

but let's say i'm talking to my friend, and she's a stock broker, and i bring up some investments that i'm about to make, i'm going to get some investorly advice and i expect it...and i take what works for me and i leave the rest. i would feel really weird if she just made some non-commital statement for fear of being 'pushy'. same thing with my friend who is a babywearing expert...she can tell me that she doesn't like the ergo and raves about her beco (or vice versa...







) and why and goes on and on about how awesome it is...and i happen to have an ergo and i love it...does it make her judgemental, and does it make me WRONG, because she knows so much more than i do about carriers? i asked my super-chef friend the other day about her recipe for pie crust, and she extolled the virtues of this butter and that flour...does that make her judgemental for saying how gross shortening is, even though i happen to like pastries made with vegetable shortening (despite how bad it is for you)? i mean, i didn't ask her specifically about shortening, and her advice was unsolicited, and i didn't take it personally and because of her i'm going to try to find a recipe that uses butter instead of shortening for the next quiche that i make.

and people ask me questions about child development all the time, because they know that i specialize in that because of my career, my friends and acquaintances ask me questions about it often and i am so happy to share my knowledge and experiences with them, and i do so both solicited and unsolicited. according to some posters here though...it's just as possible that i am being 'preachy' during these interactions? should i just not say anything anymore for fear of offending someone? i am so careful to be as neutral as possible (ie: the difference between "bumbo seats are BAD, they'll screw up your kids back and you're a BAD MOTHER for even thinking about buying one" vs. saying "from my professional analysis it appears that the bumbo seat places a child's spine in a position that is not optimal for spinal development.") if hypothetically a group of moms is extolling the virtues of the bumbo in a social setting, is it better for me to just keep my trap shut because i'll come across as being argumentative, preachy and judgemental for providing information to the contrary presented in a non-confrontational and neutral manner?


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## offwing (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
but let's say i'm talking to my *friend*
...
and people *ask* me questions

There is your answer ... friends are different from other people and when someone asks they want your opinion.

Completely different from walking up to someone who is not your friend and commenting on their parenting without them asking.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

IME, if someone is pitying another person, they're incapable of being tactful or graceful. They might think they're being "nice" or "helpful", but once the power differential is elevated that much it pretty much reeks to high heaven in just about everything you do, to the person that you've placed on the lower rung. (and no, I don't think that people always consciously do that.)

At that point, it's up to the other person to tactfully ignore it. (Which happens a lot, it's one of the few things that give me faith in humanity. ;>)

When someone makes statements about wanting to "save" the other person, or "oh their standards must be so low", ect...then it's pretty obvious where they're placing the respective parties.

I think if you actually want to *potentially instigate a change in the other person* you have to be on equal footing. If you want to inform them to ease your own discomfort, then that's not necessary, but...probably isn't going to be all that helpful to the other person. But that really wouldn't be the point, would it?

Which is why I'd be interested to know if anyone would have offered to set up a car seat clinic or get together a parents' letter asking for a change in policy either of food brought in or sharing. To me THAT shows a willingess to instigate change. Sighing at the other mom and "worrying" about those poor kids is an easy way to let off steam and ease one's own discomfort, but it doesn't really show me that the person is all that interested in actually solving any problem real or imagined other than their own discomfort.

Everyone needs to vent sometime. And one has to decide for themselves what's worth getting off one's duff to try to do something about, and what's better just to leave alone and fret about. Sometimes you need to do a bit of both.

I would just like people to be honest about which it is. It's not like it's not natural to snark sometimes. I believe every person has a bit of the snarkarino in them. No condemnation here.

Say whatever you want. But keep in mind that if you do do that then people might think you're a pushy UA violation. Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not, BTDT. And probably you shouldn't ask a question you don't want an answer to, on a message board.







On the internet, no questions are rhetorical.









And I get annoyed with and tell doctors to pipe down too, if they're offering unsolicited parenting advice...probably more so than I do obnoxious strangers or meddling relatives--because I *am* paying out of pocket for the doctor, so I suppose I feel a little more entitled to cutting things off at the pass if they'd waste my time and theirs and there's other more important things that need to be discussed.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *offwing* 
I don't know if there is any sure way to walk up to a woman you only have a bare acquaintance with and say something that at best can be taken as "You are doing something wrong with your kid".

You actually prove my point by having a back story that makes a difference. Close friends have a lot more leeway to say things. Close friends have an assumption of caring for each other. Close friends have a history of sharing personal information and giving/taking advice. And even then, more than one friendship has been estranged due to comments about someone's kids or spouse.

But saying that to some mama who you nod at a couple days out of the week while picking up at daycare? Even saying that to someone who you kind of know could really blow up in your face.

So the social grace and tact comes in by knowing when your comments are too intimate for the relationship you have. And I call comments about how someone is raising their kids pretty darn intimate to be giving unsolicited opinions on!!!

yes, i totally agree. we don't know much about how often the op has talked to this other mother and about what, etc, so that definitely makes it challenging to figure out the social convention of how open and honest she could be with the other person.

so as previous posters have suggested, is the most socially graceful and tactful way to tackle this situation as it's been presented to us so far, be to defer to others? bring up the concern over artificial ingredients and food sharing and appropriate supervision over mealtimes with the school staff, and have them devise and enforce rules. suggest to the school administration that they have a car seat clinic as a service to the families, so that the techs could tell her that her car seat is expired.


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## offwing (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
so as previous posters have suggested, is the most socially graceful and tactful way to tackle this situation as it's been presented to us so far, be to defer to others?

I think so, yeah. Because then it is not a direct confrontation of that specific person, the information is shared with many people which avoids the implication that anyone person is doing something "wrong". And that is what people typically get offended by, someone they don't know feeling free to comment and pass judgment on their parenting.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:

No offense, but that would really irritate me! If a friend, even a good one, went in my car and started messing with my kids carseats I would probably get pretty ticked.
ehhh







: thats just how we are all. we are always fussing over each others kids and kids stuff. our carseats are often in each others cars and our kids are often in each others carseats. The kids wear each others underwear and sleep in each others beds. These are not casual aquaintences. these are very close friends. And I don't go diging around in their car unless I am driving it or am putting my carseat in it. These are usually carseats within reach. But hands get dirty and need to be washed, shoes get put on the wrong feet and need to get switched, babies need sittin', they get sat, kids get hungry and need to be fed, noses get buggery and need to be deboogered, carseat straps get loose and need to be tightened. Thats life. My friends and I take care of each other and each others kids. These are people i love. Each of us has our own mothering gifts, we share as needed and all of us are pretty happy with any help we get. We know we can't know everything about everything. I accept their help, instruction, chastisement when needed. We share information, tips, resposibility and love.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 

and people ask me questions about child development all the time, because they know that i specialize in that because of my career, my friends and acquaintances ask me questions about it often and i am so happy to share my knowledge and experiences with them, and i do so both solicited and unsolicited. according to some posters here though...it's just as possible that i am being 'preachy' during these interactions? should i just not say anything anymore for fear of offending someone? i am so careful to be as neutral as possible (ie: the difference between "bumbo seats are BAD, they'll screw up your kids back and you're a BAD MOTHER for even thinking about buying one" vs. saying "from my professional analysis it appears that the bumbo seat places a child's spine in a position that is not optimal for spinal development.") if hypothetically a group of moms is extolling the virtues of the bumbo in a social setting, is it better for me to just keep my trap shut because i'll come across as being argumentative, preachy and judgmental for providing information to the contrary presented in a non-confrontational and neutral manner?

I don't think either approach is a good one. both come from a place of having more information and the right information. acknowledge that their babies do seem to love them. mention that you have seen some research that suggests it might not be good for their backs. and then say what you would do.
"ya know it looks like babies really love them. I have seen some research that says it might not be good for their spines. if it were me I would only use it in moderation if I were going to use one" or "they look like a lot of fun for babies. especially those that love sitting up. I read something about them being bad for their backs. has anyone else heard anything like that? I think I might wait until I hear more"


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
No offense, but that would really irritate me! If a frien, even a good one, went in my car and started messing with my kids carseats I would probably get pretty ticked.

We can never be friends







:


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## Upside (Jun 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
i'm still not seeing where saying that something has a lot of sugar in it is a criticism, overt or covert.

It's not the words, it's your motivation for saying them. Only you know if you meant it as a criticism. What other people perceive it as is a different story. I would probably feel like you were being critical of me if you said it just the way you described. I would not feel that way if it went more like this...

"Haley just loves these yogurt cups and eats two a day!"
"Oh, Bobby turns into a monster with that much sugar."

Then everyone is happy. I'm glad my kid is not a monster and maybe you have made a subliminal point, if a self deprecating one.


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

CPSafety - The Dangers of Shield Boosters

Webmd - Parents, Don't Use Shield Type Booster Seats

Quote:

March 1, 2004 -- There's more evidence against shield-style child booster seats. Children are at nearly eight times higher risk of serious injury when riding in these seats, a new study shows.

Shield-style booster seats are equipped with a horizontal, padded, pop-down restraint bar in line with the child's mid-torso that is supposed to replace the protection of a safety belt. In some studies and lawsuits, they have been linked to serious injuries in crashes. Many car seat makers have stopped selling them.

The study is a warning flag for parents: Invest in a new model of car seat that meets recent federal guidelines. Don't use an older model that's been handed down or that you've found in a thrift shop. Don't even use a new model of shield booster seat; one manufacturer still produces them, but they are not considered by many experts to be safe. It is marketing them for children between 30 and 40 pounds.

"Shield booster seats no longer have any role in child passenger safety," writes researcher Elizabeth A. Edgerton, MD, MPH, an emergency medicine and trauma specialist at Children's National Medical Center in Washington, D.C.

Also, crash investigations have reported that babies riding in shield booster seats had greater trauma to the baby's upper body, abdomen, and head.
You can't change her food buying habits. I wouldn't worry about it. I see nothing wrong with venting about it. That's human. Yes, you are judgmental. (I say that with kindness, not malice.) So is everyone. Everyone who called you judgemental for being judgemental is also judgemental. See? We are all human.







(But I don't worry about other people's kids or spend too much of my mental energy feeling sorry for them. Does that make me insensitive or uncaring? Hmmmm, maybe. I'm not trying to be snarky. Now I'm really wondering - what's worse? Caring "too much" or not at all - to the point of quieting that voice inside you because you are so afraid of appearing judgemental.)

But Tigerchild does have a good point about being on "equal footing" as far as wanting to help someone out. Maybe the seat was a hand-me down or she can't afford a new one (or most likely) is truly ignorant about car safety (most people are).









I think setting up a car seat seat at the preschool is a GREAT idea. But what if the mom in question, who needs it, doesn't take advantage of the great opportunity (because she has a million errands to run and it doesn't fit her schedule on that day)?

Everyone takes things differently. One person would be highly offended by someone pointing something out to them. I wouldn't. I would appreciate the heads up.








Chicago Tribune - Hidden Hazards, Kids at Risk: When Car Seat Safety-Commerce Collide That newspaper article was posted this month. Not sure how long it will be up. Alarming and







eye opening.

My firstborn son had the Evenflo On My Way infant carseat and my daughter (born in 2004) used the same one for a little while (before a friend gave me her Graco.) One video showed how at higher speeds (slightly higher than testing speeds), the seat just fell (broke) apart. HOLY CRAP! I * wish * someone like the OP would speak up and would have said something to me. I wouldn't necessarily get defensive & jump to conclusions about how she feels superior to me.







But... obviously from the responses on this thread, not everyone feels the same way.


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## Upside (Jun 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avent* 
I'm just going to say I'm talking about families with enough money, time to cook, whose kids don't have sensory/developmental issues. Do you really not know anyone like this who breastfed but then gave their kids Coke, Lunchables, Wonderbread, Kool-Aid, Snickers, blue yougurt, etc,

Blue yogurt is delicious, but I especially love anything that turns my mouth flourescent colors. Mmmm.









Seriously, this thread is fascinating. I understand wanting to have high standards for feeding my own children. Some days I succeed, some days I don't. But if I had the energy to care that much about what someone else is feeding their apparently well adjusted kids, well I'd use that energy for something else, like nookie with DH.







:


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Upside* 
Blue yogurt is delicious, but I especially love anything that turns my mouth flourescent colors. Mmmm.









Seriously, this thread is fascinating. I understand wanting to have high standards for feeding my own children. Some days I succeed, some days I don't. But if I had the energy to care that much about what someone else is feeding their apparently well adjusted kids, well I'd used that energy for something else, like nookie with DH.







:

Very true. Most of us are doing the best we can. Period. That said... on the subject of food - The other day (and I haven't thought about it since I saw it) I saw a nice, involved, caring, intelligent father hand his 2-3 year old toddler a bottle of blue gatorade.







My children have eaten crap food on occasion, but junk drinks are a







in my book. DS begs for it. I say no. DH gives in. My compromise is no Caffeinated drinks at dinner time. DH let's him have Root beer on occasion. Fine.

I just learned from the Pediatric Dentist that Gatorade is one of the WORSE things to give a child. The citric acid wears down the Enamel.







She said adults are walking around with caps over their teeth because of all the gatorade they drink. The next offenders are Sprite and Mountain Dew (same deal). On the bottom of the list and not-so-bad is Root beer. Whew.

Did I say something to the dad? Nah. I would have looked like a nosey, critical jerk. Not worth it. If the parents do offer that junk, say once a month, it won't kill the children.







I didn't walk away thinking "less of" of that family or anything. Just typical American-don't-give-a-2nd-thought-to-what-you-put-in-your-body. (Which at times, is a mindset I fall into also, since I'm only human.)







Typical... human behavior. Nothing "below me" or anything. (Please, if you have to give your children gatorade, like my neighbor does, because her son has insulin issues (and needs it) I am NOT passing judgement on you.)

But car safety, _depending on the circumstances_, I would speak up.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Upside* 
It's not the words, it's your motivation for saying them. Only you know if you meant it as a criticism. What other people perceive it as is a different story. I would probably feel like you were being critical of me if you said it just the way you described. I would not feel that way if it went more like this...

"Haley just loves these yogurt cups and eats two a day!"
"Oh, Bobby turns into a monster with that much sugar."

Then everyone is happy. I'm glad my kid is not a monster and maybe you have made a subliminal point, if a self deprecating one.

let me get this straight.

in order to not come across as criticism/judgement, it is necessary to bring yourself to another person's level by being self-deprecating, and a little white lie in the face of a social interaction (ie...pretending to have given my child some sugar/artifical color etc laden food with a negative result) is all good.

what is it with this sugar coating and false humility. how is it truly humble and kind to yourself and others to put oneself down in order to not possibly hurt someone else's feelings. stating a fact without posturing is rude? i'm sorry, but this kind of insincerity and reverse judgement is something that i don't want my daughter to internalize as an acceptable social convention. i think it's entirely possible to be kind, humble and helpful without having to resort to the utter insincerity of telling lies about myself or being self-deprecating. isn't THAT the definition of true social grace and tact?

and it seems from the advice given here that what it means to be a tactful, socially graceful person is to be non-confrontational. what i'm hearing is that the op can think and vent about these things, but if she actually does anything about it on a personal level by approaching the other mother..she's JUDGEMENTAL. but if she goes to higher ups and organizes policy change regarding food at the school, and compels the powers that be to have a car seat safety check...then she's being a good little citizen and it attenuates her judgement because she's doing something for the greater benefit of her community.
when was the last time any of YOU did something like this?







:


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 

in order to not come across as criticism/judgement, it is necessary to bring yourself to another person's level by being self-deprecating, and a little white lie in the face of a social interaction (ie...pretending to have given my child some sugar/artifical color etc laden food with a negative result) is all good.

<snip>

and it seems from the advice given here that what it means to be a tactful, socially graceful person is to be non-confrontational. what i'm hearing is that the op can think and vent about these things, but if she actually does anything about it on a personal level by approaching the other mother..she's JUDGEMENTAL. but if she goes to higher ups and organizes policy change regarding food at the school, and compels the powers that be to have a car seat safety check...then she's being a good little citizen and it attenuates her judgement because she's doing something for the greater benefit of her community.
when was the last time any of YOU did something like this?







:

As to the first paragraph, clearly you've not really been absorbing what people are saying. However, since you seem determined to be very all or nothing about it, it's not really useful to argue about it.

As to the latter, yeah. I have. I've joined the board of the toddler program I was in, suggested guest speakers. I've had talks with teachers about things that concerned me, a lot of time that would clear things up but sometimes I've had to go ask for clarification of policy from administrators (and because they're competant folks, the problem's been taken care of). Whenever I've seen something that I feel was harmful to children in general in any particular organization I'm with, then I've taken the bull by the horns and not only suggested change but *offered my time and resources* to help make that happen.

There's been other things that pissed me off that I didn't feel that I wanted to spend that level of energy on, so I let them go.

If you don't care enough to actually put yourself out to change something, then you're just moaning. Which is fine, we all do it. But don't sit there with false pride and hand wring about how you just want to Save the Children either, and Oh I Just Want To Educate Everyone.

If you're not willing to put out, then frankly the only reason why you want to say something to someone else as an individual is to complain, destress, or make yourself feel good. I'm cool with people who complain and don't falsely put it up to higher motives, because again, show me someone who says they've NEVER done that and you're showing me a liar. But if you're NOT willing to at least TRY to organize something? Please. You don't care as much as you say you do then, so quit worrying about it and save both yourself and your target the stress. Go vent on a message board or something. ;>


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
let me get this straight.

in order to not come across as criticism/judgement, it is necessary to bring yourself to another person's level by being self-deprecating, and a little white lie in the face of a social interaction (ie...pretending to have given my child some sugar/artifical color etc laden food with a negative result) is all good.

She didn't tell a lie. She just said that with that much sugar, her kid would become a monster. She didn't say "The last time WE ate XYZ yogurt brand, it had a deterimental effect on my kid", she just said that the amount of sugar in there was deterimental to her child.

Quote:

what is it with this sugar coating and false humility. how is it truly humble and kind to yourself and others to put oneself down in order to not possibly hurt someone else's feelings. stating a fact without posturing is rude? i'm sorry, but this kind of insincerity and reverse judgement is something that i don't want my daughter to internalize as an acceptable social convention. i think it's entirely possible to be kind, humble and helpful without having to resort to the utter insincerity of telling lies about myself or being self-deprecating. isn't THAT the definition of true social grace and tact?
I guess you've hit the nail on the head. What most of us are preaching is not FALSE humility. It's actual humility. If you don't have it, I guess there's no point in trying to pretend to a humble individual who may not have all of the answers, when you obviously don't see yourself that way.

Quote:

and it seems from the advice given here that what it means to be a tactful, socially graceful person is to be non-confrontational. what i'm hearing is that the op can think and vent about these things, but if she actually does anything about it on a personal level by approaching the other mother..she's JUDGEMENTAL.
No, they are both judgmental. One act does not inflict her judgmentalism on another person (thinking it) so at least the person is blissfully unaware of the scrutiny and judgmentalism her fellow mothers are giving her (although she probably suspects; after all, there's nothing us mamas love more than to bring down other mamas is there?).

Quote:

when was the last time any of YOU did something like this?







:
I focus on my own parenting and how it can improve, so I don't meddle in other people's affairs. If people meddle in my affairs, I generally come to the conclusion that they either don't have enough to do, or they are really insecure in their own parenting, if they simply cannot help telling other parents how to be parents.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cee3* 
In my opinion, yes, it was impolite. It is difficult, when you have done a lot of research about something and have a very definite opinion about it, to remember that other people just don't care what your opinion is. Trust me, I understand the impulse to be "evangelical", but most people really, really are not interested in whatever it is you're an expert in, whether that's AP, NFL, religion, the stock market, or bike riding. I actually think AP/NFL are very akin to religion in a lot of ways. Just like my aunt thinks that she is doing me a favor by writing in my Christmas card that I need to find Jesus in order to avoid eternal damnation, many of us offer up "advice" about our parenting techniques or lifestyle under the guise of just being helpful or doing someone a favor. Sometimes, I'm sure, my aunt comes across someone who welcomes her intrusion (because that is what it is), but for the most part, people are offended and don't react the way she thinks they should.

I couldn't agree more with this.

I do think that if people want to evangelize - and y'know, for car seat safety that is not a bad thing - there are ways to approach it that are not so intrusive. I love the idea of a car seat safety hour after the preschool one day. And for sugar, maybe there is a similar way to approach that - have a nutrition seminar for everyone or whatever.

For sharing well - for me I think sharing is a basic human good, even if it's sugary stuff. If I had a highly sensitive/allergic child to something though, his/her safety would definitely trump it.


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## hipmummy (May 25, 2007)

Take the Darwinian approach. "Survival of the fittest" Step back and worry about your own children. The negative energy you are exspending on the matter could be used elsewhere. The carseat issue bothers me, Local fire departments will give you a free one if tehy find that yours is unsafe. Check with your local fire or police department.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Ah, Chavelamom, you've seen the light







It's not about being right or wrong, we all have our little things that we're better at than other moms, and vise versa. For the record, I would be completely annoyed if someone brought snacks that were innappropriate for my child. I cannot stand community snacks and would rather just pack a snack for MY children every day and not have to worry about what other mothers are bringing for theirs. When I DO bring snacks, I try to consider allergens, dyes and sugars. The thing that freaks me out that doesn't seem to freak out friends of mine are FAKE sugars. I'd give my child a peice of cake before giving them a popsicle with splenda.

Interesting thread.
LIsa


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Sigh. Can you just tell your friend that you don't approve of your own children eating sugar and artificial sweeteners and so her kids please stop offering them?

Also, frankly, if I saw that a friend had a dated car seat, I would just say "You realize that your car seat is dated, right?" and be done with it. Call me blunt but maybe she just doesn't know. And if she didn't do anything about it well, she is the mom.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

The friend who's taught me the most about nutrition has never said anything about what I feed my kids. I've noticed this family is "different," limits sugar, and so forth -- and I've asked questions. I don't think my friend's ever brought up anything on her own initiative, but I've learned a tremendous amount from her.

In our case, I find it's best to have lots of healthy foods available, but not to limit "junk" the way my friend does. When her kids come over, they're so obsessed with our junk food it almost seems like they're on the verge of really binging whenever they finally have more freedom.

I like it that my daughters are pretty self-limiting; I don't think they'd be this way if I made them jump through a million hurdles before they could have a piece of candy. At my friend's house, it's all based on so many continuous hours of good behavior, no peeing the bed, and so on. THEN and only then can you have your half a push-pop or whatever.

So now I'm "judging" my friend. We all do it, I just try to be careful in what I say to others. I've gotten lots of really good info from my friend -- but then she does some things I don't agree with. Mutual respect is so important.

My friend says she's also been influenced by me to quit using spanking as a "first resort." She hasn't quit spanking or punishing (just as I haven't become as "sugar free" as she has), but we influence each other, I think all the more because it's through example and not so much through preaching.


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## Upside (Jun 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
let me get this straight.

in order to not come across as criticism/judgement, it is necessary to bring yourself to another person's level by being self-deprecating, and a little white lie in the face of a social interaction (ie...pretending to have given my child some sugar/artifical color etc laden food with a negative result) is all good.

what is it with this sugar coating and false humility. how is it truly humble and kind to yourself and others to put oneself down in order to not possibly hurt someone else's feelings. stating a fact without posturing is rude? i'm sorry, but this kind of insincerity and reverse judgement is something that i don't want my daughter to internalize as an acceptable social convention. i think it's entirely possible to be kind, humble and helpful without having to resort to the utter insincerity of telling lies about myself or being self-deprecating. isn't THAT the definition of true social grace and tact?


Ouch, kidspiration, just say it's not your style. You prefer to be direct. Oops, I'm condoning false humility again.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I absolutely do know crunchy birthers and bfers who let their kids have 'junk'. I wrote about my friend --with the gorgeous teenage daughter- earlier in the thread. That child nursed for over 5 yrs (This friend probably breastfed for toal of 19 years). Her kids ate lots of healthy foods, but she also bought plenty of un-naturally blue foods. She bought whatever the kids asked for.

She is in fact wealthy, and basically the kids put whatever they wanted in the grocery cart. When I first met her I was *shocked*.







(How can she breastfeed that baby and then let her have gummy bears??!) If her kids lost one shoe, they didn't even have to find it. She'd buy them a new pair. It was crazy...I thought for sure the four of them would become criminals or something.







The 18 yr old is the youngest, and her oldest is over 30. They are all fantastic people. Generous, kind, smart. Healthy, even.








I learned a lot from her, and my subsequent kids have benefitted.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp* 
Sigh. Can you just tell your friend that you don't approve of your own children eating sugar and artificial sweeteners and so her kids please stop offering them?

That seems about as reasonable as saying the OP should just teach her kids not to accept treats from others. The children are toddlers, and the parents are not there to intervene when the sharing is taking place. So what is the point in even talking with the other parent about the problem?

If this school has parents provide their children's snacks, then each parent has the right to do his/her own selection. It's on the teacher to make sure no sharing takes place, so any conversations about this need to happen with the teacher and director.

When I worked in childcare years ago, it was rare for parents to provide snacks unless there was a special party. Parents did send their children's breakfast cereal each morning, and no sharing ever happened with this. All other meals and snacks were provided by the center.

If it's too hard to monitor the sharing, then maybe this center needs to raise its fees and start providing all the food rather than having parents send any.


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## Chavelamomela (Sep 25, 2006)

Sorry for not posting this post earlier today when I made that change.

I kept the original post the same so that people can see the process of the thread.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
We can never be friends







:


















:


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipmummy* 
Take the Darwinian approach. "Survival of the fittest" Step back and worry about your own children.

Truly.

Unless kids are being abused or outright neglected, I don't interfere.

Also, to all you mamas of toddlers and infants....if MDC is still around in 12 or 15 years, pop in and tell us what your kids are eating. I don't know one teenager who gives a rat's butt about what's healthy. You can feed 'em all the organic fruit and homemade yogurt you want, but when they're at school, out with their friends, or visiting somewhere, they're going to eat what tastes good, even if it's full of corn syrup and Red 40. Because they believe they're invincible.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't give our kids healthful foods. Just that they will, at some point, make their own choices. Especially when they start to carry their own money. And when people are so concerned with someone else's preschooler eating blue applesauce, I can only imagine the heart attack that will ensue when their own darling child is chomping on Doritos and Dr. Pepper.


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## poetesss (Mar 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
let me get this straight.

in order to not come across as criticism/judgement, it is necessary to bring yourself to another person's level by being self-deprecating, and a little white lie in the face of a social interaction (ie...pretending to have given my child some sugar/artifical color etc laden food with a negative result) is all good.

what is it with this sugar coating and false humility. how is it truly humble and kind to yourself and others to put oneself down in order to not possibly hurt someone else's feelings. stating a fact without posturing is rude? i'm sorry, but this kind of insincerity and reverse judgement is something that i don't want my daughter to internalize as an acceptable social convention. i think it's entirely possible to be kind, humble and helpful without having to resort to the utter insincerity of telling lies about myself or being self-deprecating. isn't THAT the definition of true social grace and tact?

and it seems from the advice given here that what it means to be a tactful, socially graceful person is to be non-confrontational. what i'm hearing is that the op can think and vent about these things, but if she actually does anything about it on a personal level by approaching the other mother..she's JUDGEMENTAL. but if she goes to higher ups and organizes policy change regarding food at the school, and compels the powers that be to have a car seat safety check...then she's being a good little citizen and it attenuates her judgement because she's doing something for the greater benefit of her community.
when was the last time any of YOU did something like this?







:


I love all of what you've said so far in this thread, Kidspiration...just wanted to say that.







:

Maybe it's just a cultural difference or something but I really don't get why westerners/Americans take these type of comments between friends/acquaintences/whoever so seriously. Maybe I'm just used to the Asian style of everyone getting in your business so that it doesn't bother me. But I'm noticing a lot of "If someone said that to _me_, I'd be offended" stuff. Which I think leads people to be fake when they interact with others because they're always fearing to offend...what's so wrong with saying things directly and straightforward, no beating around the bush needed, no judgment implied?

Now if someone told me about the sugar thing, if I cared I'd be glad she informed me. If I didn't I'd just say, "Yeah I know there's a lot of sugar but at least she's eating something, ya know?" and forget about it.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
Also, to all you mamas of toddlers and infants....if MDC is still around in 12 or 15 years, pop in and tell us what your kids are eating. I don't know one teenager who gives a rat's butt about what's healthy. You can feed 'em all the organic fruit and homemade yogurt you want, but when they're at school, out with their friends, or visiting somewhere, they're going to eat what tastes good, even if it's full of corn syrup and Red 40. Because they believe they're invincible.

*sigh*
Too true. DS1 used to take green pepper strips, pieces of kiwi fruit, broccoli florets, etc. to kindergarten as snacks. He loved them all, and would ask for them as treats.

Now? He's 14. If we had it in the house, I'm pretty sure he'd drink a 2 litre of pop every day. He ate _8 bags_ of Skittles on the ferry on his way to a gifted field trip. We do what we can, but he loves his junk...a lot.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poetesss* 
Which I think leads people to be fake when they interact with others because they're always fearing to offend...what's so wrong with saying things directly and straightforward, no beating around the bush needed, no judgment implied?

See, I don't think that you either have to be in the other person's face OR fakey-fakey. I am a direct person, I don't beat around the bush with people. I also don't really censor my judgement either. However, I also acknowledge that when I am obviously looking down at someone or lecturing them that they're probably going to tell me to go UA violate myself, so really I'm bringing it up for my own benefit. Because I feel like I want to poke the bear, because what they're doing is a pet peeve of mine and I don't feel like just internalizing it and doing my zen breathing, because I'm feeling like a UA violation myself that day, or whatever.

It's cool to be blunt (at least I like to think so), but like everything else it's got consequences. To be blunt and then bat one's eyelashes behind "I was just trying to save the children" or "I just want to share my wealth of knowledge" oh my gracious why would anyone think I was being mean/nosy/judgemental is a tad facetious to me. That's part of the territory when you like telling things "like it is"...when you're wrong, or people disagree with you, they're likely to project it onto your bluntness and not give you any quarter.

It seems to me that in the original case though, the "judgement" was more than "implied".

And good gravy, it's always different with friends. A friend can go jiggle my kids' carseat straps all she likes. I might tell her to get out of the way so I can close the door, if I'm grumpy, but especially if that's just how she is...that's just how she is, and if she's my friend I love her and her faults just as she does mine.

If, however, some strange woman barges in and starts pawing my kids in their carseats in the middle of the parking lot, she's either going to be on her butt by the side of the car or going to have a complaint filed against her.

It's annoying but cute when a friend does it. Kind of weird and threatening if a stranger does it.


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## Upside (Jun 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
...so really I'm bringing it up for my own benefit. Because I feel like I want to poke the bear











I love your honesty!


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## SativaStarr (Jul 16, 2007)

I guess this whole thread just upsets me.. Im not any less caring of a parent because my kids eat white bread, american cheese, juice, fruit snacks, and canned foods. Sure, in a perfect world Id love to serve only organic, whole foods.. but guess what, My family wouldnt eat it.. and we cant afford it. Our grocery budget is $200 a month (food stamps) and that has to feed a family of 5! I cant change the fact that DH is super picky cuz he grew up on hamburger helper (HOW DARE HIS MOTHER???) and corn as a veggie. Our 5 yr old (whome we have temp. gaurdianship of) was raised on TV dinners and fast food.. try getting her to eat "healthy".. Id rather the child eat (even if its not the healthiest than waste a plate full of healthy food. Yes, I feed my kids fresh fruits and veggies, but they get grilled cheese, and pb&j too. Oh Ive even bought that "artificial" applesauce in question. Heck.. my kids even had sugar.. and guess what they are still HEALTHY! You can control what you feed YOUR child, but its unreasonable tyo expect everyone else to do the same.


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## Upside (Jun 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SativaStarr* 
I guess this whole thread just upsets me.. Im not any less caring of a parent because my kids eat white bread, american cheese, juice, fruit snacks, and canned foods.









I don't think you're any less caring of a parent.

A relative of mine is very, "oh my god, that mother sent cookies to school for snacktime!" and yet, when her son won't eat all his spinach, she tells him he'll never grow up to be big and strong...I don't get it, make him eat the healthiest of healthy, but warp his identity? Of course *I* would never poke that bear as ironic as I think it is.

We're all mothers with opinions to spout off and my toddler just doesn't seem very interested in mine. So here I am.

P.S. I dread the day my daughter is old enough to realize that my bowl is full of ice cream and hers is full of peas. She has already learned that crackers are not actually cookies. But wait, I guess I am warping her in my own special way.


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## offwing (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp* 
Sigh. Can you just tell your friend that you don't approve of your own children eating sugar and artificial sweeteners and so her kids please stop offering them?

I think it's already been fairly hashed out that friends are different than strangers and that you can absolutely say all kinds of things to a friend that would be inappropriate and rude to say to someone that you didn't have a personal relationship with.

I guess it comes down to how well do you know the person you are thinking of commenting to? If you don't know them well enough to be fairly sure that the child doesn't have BLANK (some issue that would make the actions understandable) then you really should MYOB.

A tactful person doesn't make assumptions about other people based on her own personal point of view. She don't assume that just because she wants to know something that any other reasonable and intelligent mama must want to know the same thing.

Some things I think are safe assumptions. "That person doesn't want to be run over by a car" is a pretty safe assumption so you should feel free to shout "LOOK OUT!"

"That mama wants to be told she is giving her child too much sugar" is not a given, and unless you know the person fairly well, you run the risk of offending someone by making the assumption that they want your opinion, information or advice.


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## avent (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 

Also, to all you mamas of toddlers and infants....if MDC is still around in 12 or 15 years, pop in and tell us what your kids are eating. I don't know one teenager who gives a rat's butt about what's healthy. You can feed 'em all the organic fruit and homemade yogurt you want, but when they're at school, out with their friends, or visiting somewhere, they're going to eat what tastes good, even if it's full of corn syrup and Red 40. Because they believe they're invincible.

I never understood this argument. I harbor no illusions that my children will eat junk when they are older and I have less influence in their lives. I still feel a responsibility to feed them the best foods I can while I can, while their nervous and reproductive systems are forming. You can also breastfeed your children all you want and someday they'll eat junk, but it's still a good idea to breastfeed them if you are able. And a lot of mamas care about what they eat while they are pregnant, and care about their diets when they are trying to become pregnant. So what's the big deal with continuing through the early post-weaning years, if you can afford it and there aren't developmental issues?









And I do know teenagers who care about what's healthy. What can I say?

EAT: Not to mention that later indiscretions may be handled better by people who built strong bones and teeth, for example, earlier in life.


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## offwing (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poetesss* 
Maybe it's just a cultural difference or something but I really don't get why westerners/Americans take these type of comments between friends/acquaintences/whoever so seriously. Maybe I'm just used to the Asian style of everyone getting in your business so that it doesn't bother me.

We can probably do without the ethnic stereotypes.


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## offwing (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
I don't know one teenager who gives a rat's butt about what's healthy.

Early teens was when both my girls became interested in eating healthy and willing to eat things they never would consider before. They've kept it up right into their twenties.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Upside* 

P.S. I dread the day my daughter is old enough to realize that my bowl is full of ice cream and hers is full of peas. She has already learned that crackers are not actually cookies. But wait, I guess I am warping her in my own special way.











I have the worst sugar jones.

But I hate it when people drink soda all day. I don't like to drink a lot of sugar, but I'll sure eat it.

I limit my dcs sugar intake because I don't want them to grow up with bad eating habits. Nearly all the adults in my family are obese and have been for as long as I can remember. The only ones who aren't either smoke like fiends or are compulsive exercisers, or both. At various times in my life I have worked out for around 3 to 4 hours a day, or smoked 3 packs of cigarettes a day, or smoked and worked out. And I didn't see this as abnormal. ( I know) My weight goes up and down with my health problems. I hope my children don't have to deal with this their whole lives, but it really doesn't look good for them since grandparents and doting relatives think they _need_ candy, soda, dessert, and pretty much whatever other [email protected] they see.


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## Aeress (Jan 25, 2005)

I find food policies for school/daycare acceptable. I worked at a center that stated "healthy" lunches were to be sent, no chips, cookies, candy or pop. (this was for the school age group) There wasn't a definition for healthy but most parents sent in what is a healthy lunch. (meat/meat alternative, fruit, veggie)

Yes, the bright blue applesauce isn't my idea of healthy but it isn't for me to decide.

Mil bougtht the girls lunchables. Personally, I don't think they are healthy but for MIl they were a simple way to pack a picnic lunch. If mil wanted to buy them for home, I would tell her no but for when they are at her house, I let it go.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

My kids will eat anything. They love all kinds of food, from all around the world, and are not picky at all. They don't eat at fast food resturants, and that's a fact. My 18 yr old won't touch the stuff, and my 13 yr old is a vegetarian. My kids can go anywhere- the fanciest Manahttan restaurant, the most funky dive in the deep south (which we love, so no dis on the deep south!) We are foodies. One of my greatest fears is to raise a kid who rolls their eyes at food kindly offered-- no matter what it is. I know I am raising a few altruistic Peace Corps types, so that is a respectful attribute that should serve them well.

However, they have eaten 'junk' and I will serve traditional teen foods when they have parties and their friends are over. It's so not a big deal. You offer the good stuff and you make allowances for the 'other' stuff.

I think we create a lot of problems when we try to micromanage what kids eat. It *will* backfire if you are freaking out over kids trying soda or whatnot at parties etc. A little balance is a good thing. There is plenty of junk food that is Kosher, Halal etc etc Most cultures have their own version of food crappy.

It's probably good that parents of tiny children can get that happy /I rock feeling because their children haven't tasted ice cream or what. Lets take our bows where we can.







:

PS. To those with adults/older teens who did micromanage food when they were small and who have no food issues, and you will post to tell me, let me just say in advance-- That's great! And I really mean that. No snark.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Funny, most teens I know are opting for vegetarian diets to some degree. They may crave some junk (yeah, so do I) but are much more conscious of their overall diet. I know I was that way, too, as a teen so maybe I notice/applaud it more.







Takes all kinds


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BusyMommy* 
Funny, most teens I know are opting for vegetarian diets to some degree. They may crave some junk (yeah, so do I) but are much more conscious of their overall diet. I know I was that way, too, as a teen so maybe I notice/applaud it more.







Takes all kinds










Ok. But not eating meat leaves plenty of room for non meat junkola. Believe me. I have seen many young vegetarians ( and older ones as well) inhale french fries, pizza,, soda, frakensoy, etc. Many people, in general , are veg for the animals, not for their own health.

Oh no, we don't want to go there.


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## offwing (Aug 17, 2006)

I posted about my adult kids not to do any kind of HAHA GOOD MAMA Me! thing ... but to point out that teens aren't this monolithic group of people that all do BLANK.

Some teens eat crap, some teens don't. That was the only point I was making.

I certainly got the sense that many teens today are lot more aware of the issues around healthy eating than my age group ever were.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

then there is the entire antithesis of some of the ideas and philosophies in this thread. the art of japanese bento...the small handpacked lunches that mothers create for their children. they have an entirely different food aesthetic in japan, that the taste, nutritional value as well as presentation of the food is part and parcel of packing a meal for children. it is actually an integral part of the socialization of mothers and young children, it is seen as a skill and an art and there are a plethora of books and magazines available with recipes, ideas etc to create nutritious and very cute meals.
the cons are that i do believe that there is a bit of a competitive subculture regarding bento (see? it's universal!)

one of the philosophies is that the meal brought to school is a bridge between school and home, and as an attachment parent, i can really wrap my head around that idea. my mother is japanese, and i can still remember opening my lunchbox, excited to see what she had lovingly packed for me. she wasn't hardcore or traditional about it either. sometimes it was a slice of apple shaped as a rabbit, ears and all, that accompanied my rice cake filled with last night's leftover salmon. other times when she was busier, there would be a little yummy morsel (hersheys kiss, some japanese candy) hidden beside my tuna sandwich and carrot slices shaped like flowers. whatever it was, i could always count on my lunch conveying my mother's care and respect for my growing body. i see now how fortunate i was, and i hope and aspire to do the same for dd.

a shift is needed in our country, to take a bit more time in our hurried and harried lives to appreciate our bodies and try our best to sustain it with nutritious and nurturing foods. in an age where obesity and the concomitant diseases are rampant, and childhood obesity is reaching epidemic proportions, is it no wonder that processed, convenient, "easy", artificial foods are contributing to the demise of our society's health?


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 

Also, to all you mamas of toddlers and infants....if MDC is still around in 12 or 15 years, pop in and tell us what your kids are eating. I don't know one teenager who gives a rat's butt about what's healthy. You can feed 'em all the organic fruit and homemade yogurt you want, but when they're at school, out with their friends, or visiting somewhere, they're going to eat what tastes good, even if it's full of corn syrup and Red 40. Because they believe they're invincible.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't give our kids healthful foods. Just that they will, at some point, make their own choices. Especially when they start to carry their own money. And when people are so concerned with someone else's preschooler eating blue applesauce, I can only imagine the heart attack that will ensue when their own darling child is chomping on Doritos and Dr. Pepper.

















I have a 15 year old son soon to be 16 and this is true. Though in my case he got "junk" when he was little and now he eats no junk food aside from chinese food.

Tip toeing out of this thread now.

Shay


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Hugola to all of you.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
then there is the entire antithesis of some of the ideas and philosophies in this thread. the art of japanese bento...the small handpacked lunches that mothers create for their children.

Can you please explain what you mean by this? I have not read anyone mentioning any personal idea or philosophy in this thread that is anti-bento. Or anti-parent-lovinging-providing-food-for-their-child.

Or are you talking about the lone con of bento, oneupsmanship? Though I suppose in that case it'd be a similarity, not an antithesis?

Being of Japanese ancestry, myself, I'm actually planning to do something similar for DD as she goes off to school next year. It's because I love her, and she loves a wider variety of foods than what's served in school lunch, and because it's less expensive. And I have fun cutting food into fun shapes and arranging it, and we already have bento boxes ready to go and all my kids love them.

But honestly, it's about thoughtful consideration and love. Which can take a myriad of forms. Even with the people who've disagreed with you, I don't see the love missing from it. I don't even see the thoughtfulness missing from it, especially in the case with kids who have special needs.

I'm genuinely curious as to how you think this thread is the antithesis of providing attractive food for your loved one out of love for them.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

i just reread my own post and i realized that i had started writing one point and got sidetracked with dd and it ended up being a non-sequitur. sorry about that...busy afternoon...









i guess i was trying to point out that our attitudes and choices about food are very culturally driven, and that there are other cultures where it is the norm to provide children with healthy, nourishing and fun food choices that don't require overly processed and/or artificial food.

for example...the phenomenon of the "lunchable". it's sorta kinda a play on the whole bento concept, especially now that there's a lot of 'cute' cross marketing with licensed characters etc.

the concept is brilliant...but the execution is poor at best. those things are so laden with fats, artificial flavors and colors, sodium etc. i don't think anyone would argue that they aren't very good for kids or anyone, for that matter (and the environmental aspect of the packaging is a whole other OT beast). but i used to work in the school system and saw so many kids eat these for lunch. can we discuss the prevalence of lunchables and other uber-processed convenience foods (which as you mentioned are also extremely expensive in comparison to making food at home). what if any are the redeeming qualities of these kinds of foods besides the convenience factor and the fact that kids like them that make them so popular, because they sure aint cheap? what is the upside of giving blue applesauce, purple yogurt that comes in plastic tubes, and little chewy balls of HFCS and artificial coloring that come in the guise of fruit snacks?

i'm honestly curious...is it that most people just don't have any concept of nutrition and the impact of junk/processed/artificial foods on growing bodies and brains? i know i'm very fortunate at this point in my evolving mama-hood that the mamas that i roll with are all really into nutrition/whole foods so i know my own personal sample is skewed.

if the answer is yes...then doesn't it stand to reason that we (collective we) need to get the information out there in some way, whether it's gently, tactfully and socially gracefully







approach other parents, or to encourage schools and other organizations to sponsor talks by local health care professionals regarding nutritious food choices?

if the answer is no...then it is







: that people are knowingly, willingly (albeit lovingly) pumping their kids full of chemicals that are not only suboptimal, but very possibly harmful to their little bodies and growing brains.

and as many pp's have mentioned...the case of children with special needs is an entirely different topic...i have worked with and known many children with sensory/feeding issues so it goes without saying that this is totally different in light of that.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Regarding teenagers eating junk food: sure this is true but then they grow up and revert back to the eating habits that their parents taught them. I wouldn't dream of buying white bread on a regular basis or keeping soda in the house or feeding my daughter gummy bears. Probably because my mother was the same way. And I wouldn't feed my daughter junk food just because "she will eat it later on anyway" any more than I would give her cigarettes because "she will eventually try it out herself anyway".







:

And to the poster who mentioned people who are so gung ho on breastfeeding/child-led weaning but then offer their two year olds gummy bears: you have just summarized what I understand to be the greatest mystery surrounding the majority of posters at MDC. Why on earth would one go on and on about the evils of formula and then say they don't care that their child is eating food with artificial colour and corn syrop in it? I don't get it.


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
i'm honestly curious...is it that most people just don't have any concept of nutrition and the impact of junk/processed/artificial foods on growing bodies and brains? i know i'm very fortunate at this point in my evolving mama-hood that the mamas that i roll with are all really into nutrition/whole foods so i know my own personal sample is skewed.

if the answer is yes...then doesn't it stand to reason that we (collective we) need to get the information out there in some way, whether it's gently, tactfully and socially gracefully







approach other parents, or to encourage schools and other organizations to sponsor talks by local health care professionals regarding nutritious food choices?

if the answer is no...then it is







: that people are knowingly, willingly (albeit lovingly) pumping their kids full of chemicals that are not only suboptimal, but very possibly harmful to their little bodies and growing brains.


I honestly think there are a lot of people who don't have a clue when it comes to nutrition, hell I used to be one of those people. So I can relate to people not knowing what's healthy and what's not. Marketers have done such a great job of marketing unhealthy food and giving it a healthy spin that even many college educated people don't have a clue.

Yeah, I agree that we do need to get the message out about what's healthy and not but I think you also have to be sensitive around why people eat what they do. Some people have resources and its just ignorance but for some people they buy what they can afford plain and simple. As a woman of color who grew up working class, I see food as cultural and at times classist.

I used to live in a area where the only locally accesible store carried very little fresh food and I do mean little, I'm talking a limp head of iceberg, some nasty bananas and maybe a tomato. In that case, its hard to say eat healthy when you don't have access to healthy stuff.

Sadly that type of environment is not that uncommon particularly in low income high density areas...

So yes education is a good thing but one needs to be mindful in their approach.

Shay


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## polka hop (Dec 23, 2003)

*


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polka hop* 







Not necessarily. What I choose to eat now bears little resemblance to what I was fed growing up - relatively healthy food that I didn't particularly like. Dessert and other sweets were rare, so were most of the other snack foods that I considered tasty. Now, I choose to have more soda, dessert, chips, etc. in my home than my parents did, and 99% of the meals I make would never have shown up on the dinner table of my childhood home. So I don't think it's universally true that all (or even most) people will naturally revert back to eating the same sort of foods offered by their parents.

And just to add to that - I am the poster child for poor eating as a child - formula fed, Kraft Dinner and Alphaghetti and M&Ms and Kool-Aid for a long time, and then a series of rather bizarre "binge diets" one of which included just eating brown rice three meals a day for a week or whatever. Almost never had fruit or vegetables that were not from a can either, except apples and the odd banana, green beans, and squash.

And starting as a teen and into becoming a young adult I renegotiated my relationship with food, became vegetarian, and generally I feel I have found a good balance and we eat loads of healthy, whole foods and take advantage of the wide variety of produce - local and organic and both - as well as occasionally indulging in the odd M&M although KD, Alphaghetti, and Kool-Aid are not on the menu.

Sometimes I think it was nice to be rebelling against the "bad stuff"









So - yes, as parents we only control so much. I'm actually quite glad to model what I've learned for my son but I know in the end, he will go his own way. Plus there will be different options available for him - whether they're more limited due to fossil fuel costs, or more varied as we reclaim farmland, or just bizarre like the new "plutots" (plum-apricots) I see coming out now.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avent* 
I never understood this argument. I harbor no illusions that my children will eat junk when they are older and I have less influence in their lives. I still feel a responsibility to feed them the best foods I can while I can, while their nervous and reproductive systems are forming.

My post continued on to read.....

Quote:

*I'm not saying that we shouldn't give our kids healthful foods.* Just that they will, at some point, make their own choices. Especially when they start to carry their own money. _And when people are so concerned with *someone else's preschooler* eating blue applesauce, I can only imagine the heart attack that will ensue when their own darling child is chomping on Doritos and Dr. Pepper._

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BusyMommy* 
Funny, most teens I know are opting for vegetarian diets to some degree.

I don't personally know any vegetarian teens, but I do know or have known vegetarian adults. Some of them have awful diets that consist of mostly refined starches and cheese. Vegetarian isn't healthy when it's done half-*ssed.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *offwing* 
... but to point out that teens aren't this monolithic group of people that all do BLANK.

Some teens eat crap, some teens don't. That was the only point I was making.

::sigh::

All I said was that *I* don't know any teens who care about eating healthy. That's not to say they never eat healthful foods, or that teens who do care about eating healthy don't exist.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *offwing* 
I certainly got the sense that many teens today are lot more aware of the issues around healthy eating than my age group ever were.

Awareness doesn't mean willingness to change. My kids have seen Supersize Me. They still want fast food occasionally. They know all about high fructose corn syrup and what it can do to your body. They still drink soda and enjoy Sour Patch Kids at the movies.

Most smokers realize that smoking is bad for them, but they do it anyway. Same mentality.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp* 
Regarding teenagers eating junk food: sure this is true but then they grow up and revert back to the eating habits that their parents taught them.

What my family eats bears little resemblance to what I was fed as a kid. Corn is not a vegetable in my house. We don't eat fast food or take-out pizza 3-4 times a week. Diet soda isn't a staple here.

I'm also far more adventuresome with food than my parents were.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp* 
And I wouldn't feed my daughter junk food just because "she will eat it later on anyway" any more than I would give her cigarettes because "she will eventually try it out herself anyway".







:

Well, it's a good thing nobody has suggested doing that, then.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp* 
Why on earth would one go on and on about the evils of formula and then say they don't care that their child is eating food with artificial colour and corn syrop in it? I don't get it.

Probably because formula or breastmilk is a primary food source.

If someone was giving their child nothing but gummy bears and soda at each meal, I doubt anyone here would be tolerant of that.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

several things have been brought up.

kids will eat whatever they want when they grow up. true. but the effects of nutrition (or poor nutrition) are cumulative. every meal counts. if they choose to stray in adulthood at least in their formative years they were fed well and grew healthy and strong and well nourished.

people know jack crap about nutrition. This is true. when i t comes right down to it if kids are bring neon sugar loaded apple snacks to school every day you can guess the rest of their diet is similar. perhaps strike up a conversation with them mom. Ask her how she gets her child to eat _____. Tell your kid has been asking for _______ (insert fad food of the day here) and if she thinks it has any nutritional merit. Tell her about something you read or heard or saw (like the above mentioned bento sight. freaking cute!) gush about ow informative/new/cute/appalling the information was and ask her if she would like to see it. If more people talk about what is nutrition like it was a common as the weather people would get a better idea of what good nutrition is.

vegetarian does not equal healthy. true that. I am a checker at a grocery store. I try not to comment on peoples purchases but we got the crabby mom and the refusing to eat meat teen. Of course it was all pre-packaged, soy this and soy that with very little real food of any sort. the bill came to well over $300. I wanted to give them some tips one how to eat real food and do this meat free thing more economically. or at least add some variety to your diet. it doesn't matter what kind of artificial flavors are sprinkled on the soy. it still just soy. My point is. . .I don't know. . . regardless of what you choose to include in your diet there is a healthy and non-healthy way to do it.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
people know jack crap about nutrition. This is true.

Someone with this sort of attitude isn't someone I'd be open to receiving advice from. I prefer an interchange of ideas between equals, over advice from someone who thinks I know "jack crap."

Even if that person thinks of very indirect ways to strike up a conversation -- i.e. pretending to be seeking advice _from me_ when really they're looking for an "in" to _give_ me advice -- I just think this whole attitude is very patronizing and most people will pick up on it.

I don't believe in asking someone's advice if I think they know "jack crap" -- and I think it's dishonest to ask when I have no intention of following their advice.

Quote:

when i t comes right down to it if kids are bring neon sugar loaded apple snacks to school every day you can guess the rest of their diet is similar.
That's an unfair *ass*umption. My girls love crunching on raw carrots, but that doesn't meant their whole diet is equally healthy. I find it offensive that anyone would look at what my children are snacking on in public, and try to guess at our diet in the home. It just seems so intrusive.

lilyka, I'm not saying you come across as patronizing to your friends, or that you *are* patronizing, because I don't know you and I don't think reading one post really gives me a picture of you as a person. But the ideas you're sharing come across *to me* as very patronizing.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 

I think we create a lot of problems when we try to micromanage what kids eat. It *will* backfire if you are freaking out over kids trying soda or whatnot at parties etc.

Yes, I think so, too.

Quote:

It's probably good that parents of tiny children can get that happy /I rock feeling because their children haven't tasted ice cream or what. Lets take our bows where we can.







:










Quote:

PS. To those with adults/older teens who did micromanage food when they were small and who have no food issues, and you will post to tell me, let me just say in advance-- That's great! And I really mean that. No snark.
I'd be interested to hear about that, too, since the kids I know irl who are getting micromanaged now, seem to snarf down really large quantities of junk whenever they get the opportunity. My mom didn't provide any (or provided hardly any) junk when we were kids, and I *still* catch myself inhaling each bag of chips like it's my last. My dd's, who get to choose their own foods, are generally the opposite.


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## avent (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
i guess i was trying to point out that our attitudes and choices about food are very culturally driven, and that there are other cultures where it is the norm to provide children with healthy, nourishing and fun food choices that don't require overly processed and/or artificial food.

ITA with your entire post. Thanks for saying what I was doing a lousy job of saying when I was







earlier in this thread.


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