# Help, I don't like my teenager.



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

I love her, but I don't like her at all.

A year ago I let her go live with my mother. She was getting migraines, she was violent, and she was/is rude and disrespectful. And while he health issues have disapaited, her rude disrespectfulness has not. The only time she calls me is if she wants something. If I try to ask her to help watch the kids she can't because she is "busy hanging out with friends." She called me last night at 10pm and wanted me to give her money RIGHT NOW for lunch because I guess it was finals and she could go off campus. I said no, first off all I was not going to bring her money at 10pm and 2nd of all I am sick of her demanding money and things all the time. She never ASKS she always demands.

When I try to talk to her she always hangs up on me. I admit I hang up on her too. She will call and demand demand demand.. I will say No I have to go over and over til I finally have to hang up cause she wont stop. But when I try to tell her how I feel, like I am tired of being treated like crap and only being called when she wants something she hangs up on me. When I do talk to her she always has an attitude like wtf do you want, why are you calling me (this is what her tone of voice says, not her actual words.)

Add to this I have not been talking to my mother since October. My mother has been treating my husband like a piece of dirt for years.. and she went off on me screaming becuase I had to do my taxes the day before they were do and I couldn't take her somewhere RIGHT NOW. I told her I would take her the next day, and her exact words were, "Thats just not good enough." My mother has missed all my kids birthday's this year, thanks giving, and Christmas not to mention my birthday because she refuses to apologize to me. Thats all I asked for was an apology and she refuses. She would rather not spend time with my kids and go around telling everyone how I wont let her see them.

I would like DD to come home but she refuses. She wants to stay at her grandmas where she can do whatever she wants. I feel forcing her to come home will just make things worse.

I dont know what to do. Everyone tells me what a lovely person my daughter is. Yet I have not seen this person in YEARS. I don't want to do things for her cause she is so nasty to me, her siblings and my dh (who is not her father). Yet she calls me and demands her permit.. she tells me I said she could get it when I never said any such thing. Then she gets pissed cause I wont let her have it cause her grades are horrible and she is rude and nasty to everyone. If I ask her a question I get yelled at for "checking up on her." or she tells me it is none of my business.

Do I keep trying.. or do I just give up? I have so much going on with the other kids.. DD2 has ADD and the lil ones are so lil, that I just want to stop calling her cause I know she is just going to be nasty. I know everything I try to offer will be scoffed at, or she will just demand more material things from me. Then she has the nerve to tell me I am selfish, I think the world revolves around me, and I will just scream at people when I don't get my way. Ummm no, that is her grandma. GAhhhh....


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## 2mama (Feb 3, 2006)

It sounds like you both could use some help from a mental health professional. Have you concidered counciling.. It sounds like things are very disfunctional...

Good luck..


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2mama* 
It sounds like you both could use some help from a mental health professional. Have you concidered counciling.. It sounds like things are very disfunctional...

Good luck..

She went for a few weeks.. she refuses to go anymore. But I wouldn't put it past her to lie. Thats what I would have done had I been sent to one as a teen.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2mama* 
It sounds like you both could use some help from a mental health professional. Have you concidered counciling.. It sounds like things are very disfunctional...

I agree.

Unfortunately, a lot of what you describe sounds like me when I was a teenagar and my friends as well. Most of the kids I knew didn't listen, wanted to do as they pleased and thought they were already grown up.







My parents would stay on me until I behaved. Maybe by allowing her to go live with your mother you have shown her that she can get her way and do what she wants to do.

The main thing is that your child is still a minor and regardless of where she wants to live you have the authority over that. You can make her come home because you are her parent.


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## montlake (Mar 13, 2008)

Honestly, I get the vibe that you didn't "let" her go live with your mother as much maybe sent her to go live with your mother. Which would certainly shed a lot of light on both her and your mother's view of you right now.

How much do you call her when you're not wanting help from her to watch the kids?

I think you are both exhibiting matching behaviors. One of you does not sound worse than the other. You need to take the bull by the horns and get you BOTH in counseling. Someone asked about you both doing it and your only comment was that SHE quit going. You both need it badly I think if you are going to salvage the relationship.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:

She went for a few weeks.. she refuses to go anymore. But I wouldn't put it past her to lie. Thats what I would have done had I been sent to one as a teen.
I can't speak for the pp, but IMO counselling for the BOTH of you together is needed. It sounds like she's acting like your mother, so perhaps your mother's house is not the best place for her.

IMO bring her home, no she isn't going to like it at all. You could come up with a deal with her, she comes home, brings her grades up & then you'll discuss her permit again. Respect needs to go both ways.

When you tell her no, do you give her valid reasons? I don't think telling her how you feel is really going to make a difference, teens are quite self centered. It also lets them know exactly what buttons to push. If my mother would have told me she was upset, disappointed, etc over something I did I would have kept that in mind for the next time I wanted to make her feel like that. I'd know exactly how to do it.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *montlake* 
Honestly, I get the vibe that you didn't "let" her go live with your mother as much maybe sent her to go live with your mother. Which would certainly shed a lot of light on both her and your mother's view of you right now.

How much do you call her when you're not wanting help from her to watch the kids?

I think you are both exhibiting matching behaviors. One of you does not sound worse than the other. You need to take the bull by the horns and get you BOTH in counseling. Someone asked about you both doing it and your only comment was that SHE quit going. You both need it badly I think if you are going to salvage the relationship.

She was violent, punching and hitting me and the other kids. She was having migraines when was from the other kids screaming and yelling. My 10 year old has ADD and had just been diagnosed a few month before that. (did i mention that i don't remember and don't feel like going back to look.) I tried dealing with that naturally on my own but it's not working. I have appointments for help for her next week. In the meantime DD2 makes the lil ones scream and the noise level in this house is very high. I thought this was contributing to DD1 headaches. Which did go away at my mothers.

As for calling her, i do try to call her a couple times a day after school. She is generally rude and "busy." I am trying to help her get her grades up and get into a higher high school program she wants to get into next year, but when I email the people at school she needs help from she yells at me to butt out. This coming from someone last year who refused to talk to anyone at school herself and always demanded I do it.

As for my mother's attitude. She is just being a UAV. She has always simply tolerated my husband. He does not drink , he does not do drugs, he works his ass off to make sure we have a home and other things we need. Since she followed us to Oregon she has been more and more rude to him. Contradicting him in front of the kids when he discipline them. Making snide comments about him that she either things are jokes or she just wants us to think are jokes. Throwing screaming fits about rediculous things. (for instance he borrowed a utitlity trailer of theirs, my stepdad told him to park it on the street, he parked it backwards becuase he thought that would make it easier to put away. My mother threw a SCREAMING fit about this in front of DD, yelling about how they could have gotten a parking ticket and blah blah. When I tired to explain to her that he thought he was doing stepdad a favor she screams (like a crazy person) for me to STOP STICKING UP FOR HIM.) I want to move to the next town over, she screamed at my husband for trying to take me and the kids away. My brother was thinking about moving up here and I talked to him about maybe renting our house if we could move.. she screamed at me that my house was a piece of shit and she wouldn't want to rent it either. (dd was at school for this last one.) So you get the point. I finally put my foot down and demanded an apology and that is when DD started getting worse. Plus my brother and his wife moved in there and took my mom's side cause she is family and you should just suck it up and let her treat me and my family like dirt.

And as for watching the kids.. I rarely ask her. I spent 13-16 watching my little brothers every day after school and all summer long for FREE.. I wouldn't do that to anyone else. I usually take the lil ones with me and deal with it. (Which I spent years doing when my mother lived 160 miles away and dd was to young to help, however tis ws for DD2's appointment with the ADD psychologist and I don't think it would be productive to take the lil ones to that.

I don't have time for more now.. maybe when I get back from the fire station field trip this afternoon.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
She went for a few weeks.. she refuses to go anymore. But I wouldn't put it past her to lie. Thats what I would have done had I been sent to one as a teen.

It sounds to me like you need to go to counseling, whether anyone else goes or not. People are much more resistant to counseling if they feel they are being made out as the problem or the bad guy, which is probably how your dd felt for being sent. That's how my ds reacted to counseling. I continued to go for myself and it has been very helpful for our entire family. So, that's my suggestion.

Get counseling for yourself.


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## kolleen9 (May 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 
Get counseling for yourself.

That would be my answer also. Please don't hesitate for your sake, the children's sake and your hubby's sake. I know being a mom can be extremely stressful, but like it or not we are the glue that holds our world together. If we have peace inside, it's a lot easier to be that glue.

good luck!
Kolleen


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Counciling is not free. Insurance does not pay for it unless there is a medical diagnosis. If there is a medical diagnosis on your record it can be used against you for the rest of your life.

Right now I am using my recourses to help DD with her ADD, because honestly that is at least 75% of the stress issue around here.

Does anyone have any advice other than therapy? Thanks.


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## Tangled Hill (Jun 6, 2008)

I haven't BTDT, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Considering you'd like to bypass therapy, this is what I would do. First, let your mom and daughter know that on X date, she'll be moving back in with you. Then, every day leading up to that, send your daughter a letter telling her how you feel, how excited you are to have her coming home, etc. Every positive thing you want to tell her but haven't been able to for whatever reason. Leave all the negative stuff out. She may decide not to read them, but that's okay. She can read them whenever she's ready.

Then, fix up a space for her in your house. If you have space for her to have her own room, that's perfect. She'll need a place to get away from the noise of the other kiddos. She'll need some privacy. And, when she moves back in, make sure she knows that that space is hers and hers alone. This is oh-so-important for teenagers - especially teenagers who are getting headaches from the noise of their siblings!

Once a week, have your own little counseling session. Lay some ground rules - like, we won't discuss X just yet, no yelling, etc. Then, just talk about whatever you like for an hour or so. Make some popcorn or go out to breakfast - whatever. Just give yourselves some time alone to talk.

As for your mother, I'd let her know that you'll be happy to welcome her back into your life whenever she's ready, but that, until then, you won't be contacting her. If she does want back in, welcome her with open arms, but don't be a doormat. Whenever she starts to freak out, tell her that you're uncomfortable being around her while she's acting like that, and leave (or have her leave). Tell her that you love her, but she's stressing you (and your children) out.

These are just the things that came to mind. Not really knowing you and your situation IRL, they may be completely off base. Hope something in there helps, though. Good luck!


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Hi there, I don't have much time to write (last day at my job, start a new one next week so it will probably be a while before I do have time)







anyway I just wanted to let you know that *I feel you*! I have had a very tough time with with my dd. She is 20 now and it is getting better, but it has been a very rocky road. I will say that some of the very best advice I have gotten is from the consensual living discussion group on yahoo. I really recommend talking to those guys about it .. so helpful. My dd also refuses counseling, has had extreme and violent outbursts and just does things sometimes that I just can not wrap my brain around. sigh ... I just want to send you some hugs and let you know I have been there -

We have come a long way, she has been gone for 2 1/2 weeks now visiting her boyfriend and I miss her terribly


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## kolleen9 (May 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Does anyone have any advice other than therapy? Thanks.

What about a support group? Look in your local pennysaver/newspaper and see if there is one in your area. Even a ADD support group would be helpful.

I'm not sure if you're religious, but a lot of those type of institutions have support groups.

If you can't find one, how about creating a circle for women in your house once a month?

I understand how the financial can keep one from moving forward with therapy. I completely hear you on that. Maybe you can find a way to get support without spending money?

-Kolleen


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Counciling is not free. Insurance does not pay for it unless there is a medical diagnosis. If there is a medical diagnosis on your record it can be used against you for the rest of your life.

Right now I am using my recourses to help DD with her ADD, because honestly that is at least 75% of the stress issue around here.

Does anyone have any advice other than therapy? Thanks.

Counseling can sometimes be free through churches, I think. Also, there might be a community counseling center that works on a sliding fee scale. I'm not sure what you are afraid of with the medical diagnosis being used against you. I've had a medical diagnosis of depression for which I've sought counseling and taken medication on and off since I was 15 years old. It has never been used against me in any way.

I also second the consensual living group.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

You don't like your dd. She doesn't sound like she likes you either. And you don't like your mom. And it doesn't sound like she likes you, either. Do you see a generational pattern going on here? And what is YOUR place in it? Not just your mom and dd being the "UAVs" in the picture.

I would either bring her back home and raise her yourself or give up on raising her and leave her alone for the time being.


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## fek&fuzz (Jun 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
You don't like your dd. She doesn't sound like she likes you either. And you don't like your mom. And it doesn't sound like she likes you, either. Do you see a generational pattern going on here? And what is YOUR place in it? Not just your mom and dd being the "UAVs" in the picture.

I would either bring her back home and raise her yourself or give up on raising her and leave her alone for the time being.

yep. and get therapy. because your reasons for not getting it are kind of sad. you won't attempt to fix your relationship with your daughter because you are afraid of what that will put on your "record"? therapy will help you both. if it matters to you to have a relationship, then do it.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 
Counseling can sometimes be free through churches, I think. Also, there might be a community counseling center that works on a sliding fee scale. I'm not sure what you are afraid of with the medical diagnosis being used against you. I've had a medical diagnosis of depression for which I've sought counseling and taken medication on and off since I was 15 years old. It has never been used against me in any way.

I also second the consensual living group.

We are atheist so churches are out. (Interestingly my mother wont accept that I am atheist but accepts it of dd.) As for it being in your record if you ever go to apply for private insurance and life insurance you can be denied. Apparently if you want to adopt you can be denied as well. So while I have plenty of kids and do not plan to adopt, DD might want to some day.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fek&fuzz* 
yep. and get therapy. because your reasons for not getting it are kind of sad. you won't attempt to fix your relationship with your daughter because you are afraid of what that will put on your "record"? therapy will help you both. if it matters to you to have a relationship, then do it.


My reasons are sad? The reason that i am focusing on trying to get my DD with ADD help? That I don't have money for everyone and their brother to go to counseling? When DD and I went to that counselor in the fall she even said I need to focus on getting help for DD2 first, that that would go a long way towards harmony in the house.

And therapy does not always help. I had horrible experiences with a school councilor and DH was taken to a shrink as a kid (I think the ADD comes from him and he was never diagnosed) and he hated the guy. As a matter of fact, after a couple years of trying to get DH to open up to him, when DH still refused to talk to him the guy got pissed off and threw his chess board across the room and started ranting and raving at him.

I just don't get this attraction to therapy. Honestly I don't. And quite frankly even if I wanted to go, I don't have the damn time. I have three kids here... one with ADD, a five year old and a toddler. I have no one to babysit, DH doens't get home from work til 6:30, I am constantly coming and going for ballet, school, preschool, girls scouts, piano lessons. The only time I get time to myself is after everyone is asleep at night. I have to stay up til midnight just to get alone time.


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## mystic~mama (Apr 27, 2004)

hi Tina~ I have a 6 year old who talks to me sometimes in ways that make me wonder how she will be as a teenager...reading your situation, I feel for you...you both must be hurting to be in this situation...As a parent I feel a tremendous amount of responsibility to that little person. I am in counseling and it really helps getting to those inner child issues especially for me.

There is a book I recommend highly to you...

The Dance Of Intimacy, its a really fabulous book, very insightful into relationships and the dynamics that happen in them, it feels really empowering to understand the dynamics and is a first step in seeing the situation and moving forward to finding some solutions.

blessings to you and your daughter


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Two books that are cheaper than therapy:









"Hold On to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More than Peers" by Gordon Neufeld

and

"Raising Our Children Raising Ourselves" by Naomi Aldort

If you only read one, read the first one-- Hold On To Your Kids. They usually have it at the library. I SO wish my parents and guardians-- even just one of them, any of them-- had read this when I was a teen. They really tried, but they didn't get it. This book explains perfectly what I was going through and how they could have reached me-- and what so many "troubled teens" go through. your daughter fits the profile exactly. I dare say your daughter will thank you someday if you read this book.

Also, if you are into energy stuff at all, try looking into flower essence therapy, and the book "Feelings Buried Alive Never Die" by Karol K. Truman. The thing with energy healing is that it is generationally connected so if you start to take flower essneces and process your energy issues, it will positively affect your daughter and mom, too, without them doing anything. And it will help your other children as well.

Good luck!


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Thanks for the book recommendations!!! I will look into them.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Something else to consider is what is causing her migraines. Have you eliminated chemical and scented products in your home? Read up on food triggers? There may be something in your home triggering her migraines, and I can tell you from experience that constant migraines will make a person very unpleasant to be around. When you feel like [email protected] all the time and every noise, smell and light source aggravates it, it's difficult to be around other people.

I'm sure that won't solve all your problems, but there has to be more to the migraines than just your younger children yelling. Yelling doesn't cause migraines.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Something else to consider is what is causing her migraines. Have you eliminated chemical and scented products in your home? Read up on food triggers? There may be something in your home triggering her migraines, and I can tell you from experience that constant migraines will make a person very unpleasant to be around. When you feel like [email protected] all the time and every noise, smell and light source aggravates it, it's difficult to be around other people.

I'm sure that won't solve all your problems, but there has to be more to the migraines than just your younger children yelling. Yelling doesn't cause migraines.

Well they went away when she went to my mom's. She also finished off last year of school on a "web school" with the local high school rather than actually attending. She is back at school this year and doing OK. She got really behind at the beginning of they year but has been working to catch up. Report cards come out soon so I will know then.

And I don't use chemicals in the house, or scented products. So I don't think that would be it.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Well they went away when she went to my mom's. She also finished off last year of school on a "web school" with the local high school rather than actually attending. She is back at school this year and doing OK. She got really behind at the beginning of they year but has been working to catch up. Report cards come out soon so I will know then.

And I don't use chemicals in the house, or scented products. So I don't think that would be it.

OK. What about food? Does she eat differently at your mom's house? I found out 2 years ago tea is a trigger for me. Just this year I figured out apples are another. I've eaten apples my entire life! Most of my food triggers I've known about, but there are so many it's unreal, and everyone is different.

I'm just thinking it's interesting they completely went away at your mom's house. Something in the environment at your house has to be triggering them, whether it's a product, a food, a drink, whatever. I had a friend who got them from an essential oil I used instead of perfume because perfumes trigger migraines for me, so even natural products aren't always safe.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
OK. What about food? Does she eat differently at your mom's house? I found out 2 years ago tea is a trigger for me. Just this year I figured out apples are another. I've eaten apples my entire life! Most of my food triggers I've known about, but there are so many it's unreal, and everyone is different.

I'm just thinking it's interesting they completely went away at your mom's house. Something in the environment at your house has to be triggering them, whether it's a product, a food, a drink, whatever. I had a friend who got them from an essential oil I used instead of perfume because perfumes trigger migraines for me, so even natural products aren't always safe.

Well she lived in this house for three years before she started getting them. I always chalked them to stress from school and the other kids yelling and being a teen in general. It could have been her school too. She was going to a school out of district but just the getting her there and back was causing a lot of stress and making for a long day. Anyway when we put her in the web school we had to bring her back to the local school.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Well she lived in this house for three years before she started getting them. I always chalked them to stress from school and the other kids yelling and being a teen in general. It could have been her school too. She was going to a school out of district but just the getting her there and back was causing a lot of stress and making for a long day. Anyway when we put her in the web school we had to bring her back to the local school.

I always thought stress aggravated mine, too. Hormones can affect them as well. Mine started in my teens, and I think that happens to a lot of us that they don't show up until then. Disrupted sleep is another trigger, so the long days may have been causing them if she wasn't getting enough sleep or if she was not going to bed and getting up at the same time every day.

There are so many different things that can cause migraines it's frustrating for someone who can't figure out why they feel bad, yk? I'm sure her headaches contributed to her irritability. When I have a migraine I want everyone to get the h3!! out of my house.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
As for calling her, i do try to call her a couple times a day after school. She is generally rude and "busy." I am trying to help her get her grades up and get into a higher high school program she wants to get into next year, but when I email the people at school she needs help from she yells at me to butt out. This coming from someone last year who refused to talk to anyone at school herself and always demanded I do it.

But she sounds like a lot of teenage girls that I knew and that I've seen these days.







She really doesn't sound any different. But that doesn't make it okay either. I agree with another PP a way back that commented you need to take the bull by the horns. You are mom and that's that. You do what you feel you should do as mom.

What type of atmosphere is your DD living in at your home? Is she possibly jealous of her younger siblings? Migraines can be caused by stress. What is going on in your house that may be stressing her? or is it the fact that she is just wanting her way and at grandma's house she has more free reign in her life? Every teenager that has migraines or other illnesses don't get moved out of their homes in order to deal with it, they seek medical attention or do something to fix it. It's not the norm to do what you have done. You need to bring her home and deal with the problem. Her migraines could just be her excuse to keep her from having to come home and follow your rules. She's a teenager and they can be smart when it comes to getting things their way.

The reason why I'm posting this information is that I've seen firsthand what it does to teenagers. I've watched my DH's neices/nephews live off and on with my ILs over the years since they were very young children. None of them have any respect for their birth parents. They are all over 21 now and have a very hard time dealing in life. All of them have already had children themselves and all of them still need my ILs to do everything for them and make all decisions for them because they can't cope in life.







I hate to see that happen to kids.


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## SusanElizabeth (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
But she sounds like a lot of teenage girls that I knew and that I've seen these days.







She really doesn't sound any different. But that doesn't make it okay either. I agree with another PP a way back that commented you need to take the bull by the horns. You are mom and that's that. You do what you feel you should do as mom.

Yes. She sounds like a lot of teenage girls that I have known, too. Both of mine went through a very difficult time, especially at age 15. The teenage years can be tough. In my experience, most kids come out of it eventually. Try to hang in there. My oldest is now 21 and is a wonderful, loving person to be with, but at 15, she was









I looked at your daughter's picture on your link, and she is a lovely looking girl.


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

I know you don't feel like you like her right now. She's still very young, and, no matter how unpleasant you're being, feeling like your mom doesn't like you would be hurtful.

I've found with our 13 year old that her behavior actually really improved when we started telling her, lots, how much we enjoy having her around and what a great kid she is. It's hard to do just at the point when they are being especially difficult and frustrating, but it can make a difference.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
What type of atmosphere is your DD living in at your home? Is she possibly jealous of her younger siblings? Migraines can be caused by stress. What is going on in your house that may be stressing her? or is it the fact that she is just wanting her way and at grandma's house she has more free reign in her life? Every teenager that has migraines or other illnesses don't get moved out of their homes in order to deal with it, they seek medical attention or do something to fix it. It's not the norm to do what you have done. You need to bring her home and deal with the problem. Her migraines could just be her excuse to keep her from having to come home and follow your rules. She's a teenager and they can be smart when it comes to getting things their way.

I did get her medical help. The doctor was a UAV and not helpful at all. He insisted that eating right, getting plenty of sleep, and lots of exercise would cure a migraine. She wont see our ND cause she hates anything and everything natural.

And I have already said what was stressing her out in the home. Her sister has ADD and antagonizes the other kids into screaming fits. I am not talking yelling i am talking screaming. You have to scream at her to get her to hear you/listen to you. I have tried having her look me in the eyes and repeat back what I have said.. it doens't work. That is why I am spending my resources getting HER help.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

I have NOTHING on the behavior stuff, but my BIL has had a lot of improvement in his migraines from a diet outlined in a book called "Heal Your Headaches."


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
We are atheist so churches are out. (Interestingly my mother wont accept that I am atheist but accepts it of dd.) As for it being in your record if you ever go to apply for private insurance and life insurance you can be denied. Apparently if you want to adopt you can be denied as well. So while I have plenty of kids and do not plan to adopt, DD might want to some day.

I'm atheist, too, so I understand not wanting to get counseling from a church. I've never had an issue getting private health or life insurance. Life insurance usually doesn't pay for suicides, which is the only way I can think a mental health issue would affect it, so I don't see why that would be an issue. I think that, according to the people with disabilities act, health ins companies cannot deny coverage because of previous mental health issues. Don't take that to the bank, though. I'd have to look up the law again. As far as adopting or something like that, I can see how that might be an issue, but really, dealing with what's going on right now in the present seems more important than worrying about what _may_ happen in the future.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
And therapy does not always help. I had horrible experiences with a school councilor and DH was taken to a shrink as a kid (I think the ADD comes from him and he was never diagnosed) and he hated the guy. As a matter of fact, after a couple years of trying to get DH to open up to him, when DH still refused to talk to him the guy got pissed off and threw his chess board across the room and started ranting and raving at him.

I just don't get this attraction to therapy. Honestly I don't. And quite frankly even if I wanted to go, I don't have the damn time. I have three kids here... one with ADD, a five year old and a toddler. I have no one to babysit, DH doens't get home from work til 6:30, I am constantly coming and going for ballet, school, preschool, girls scouts, piano lessons. The only time I get time to myself is after everyone is asleep at night. I have to stay up til midnight just to get alone time.

I don't consider a school counselor a "real" counselor. It's just not the same thing. Additionally, being forced, pressured or coerced to see a counselor as a child is not the same as choosing to see a counselor as an adult. You can shop around until you find the right counselor for you. You can stop going whenever you want.

I have 3 kids, as well, a 17yo (who has ADHD), a 5yo and a 19 month old. My dh is gone a lot. He was deployed for a year while I was pregnant and then had my now 19 month old. He's gone right now for about a month. He'll be home for a month or two and then deployed again for 6-7 months. Then he'll be home for a month and gone again for 5 months. I don't get time for myself even when I stay up until midnight because my teenager and his friends are still up and roaming around my house. I have also had serious behavior issues with my oldest ds. We've discussed sending him almost anywhere but here. I am telling you this not to one up you but to demonstrate that I understand your situation.

I take my LOs with me to my counseling appointments most of the time. My counselor has toys for them and it's not a problem at all having them there. Personally, it seems to me that maybe you have too much scheduled. I can't imagine doing all of that stuff. Is it really necessary? Is there something you could cut out to help pay for the counseling? There are ways to make it happen if you really want to.

I do sort of have a love affair with counseling but only because it has done wonders for me personally and with my relationships. I've had the best luck with licensed clinical social workers (LCSW) and marriage/family counselors rather than psychiatrists and psychologists, especially those who practice cognitive behavioral counseling. I'm not trying to push counseling on you but I do want to answer your questions and maybe clarify some things.

Anyway, I understand you are not interested in counseling so I do recommend learning more about consensual living, validate your dd's feelings, empathize and don't minimize, avoid asking her for anything or expecting anything from her, don't put any of your stuff on her. I disagree with the advice to either bring her home or cut her loose. The book, _Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves_, is a good one. I hope you can get things worked out so you can have a more positive relationship with your dd.


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## amynbebes (Aug 28, 2008)

Quote:

denied. Apparently if you want to adopt you can be denied as well. So while I have plenty of kids and do not plan to adopt, DD might want to some day.
If that's something that's holding you back from counseling I don't get it, banking on the possibility that she may some day adopt.
I would get her back in my home. Whether you believe it or not, I can almost assure you that she feels displaced, jealous, etc because of younger siblings, add to that that she is a teenage girl and voila, there's part of the issue. I realize that taking care of your 10 yr old's add is of the utmost importance but your relationship with your daughter and her mental health does not deserve to take a back burner to it.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amynbebes* 
If that's something that's holding you back from counseling I don't get it, banking on the possibility that she may some day adopt.
I would get her back in my home. Whether you believe it or not, I can almost assure you that she feels displaced, jealous, etc because of younger siblings, add to that that she is a teenage girl and voila, there's part of the issue. I realize that taking care of your 10 yr old's add is of the utmost importance but your relationship with your daughter and her mental health does not deserve to take a back burner to it.

I tried to take her to a councilor. She refuses to go anymore. This was said at the very beginning.

And you never know what the hell they can and will use your medical record against you for.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I tried to take her to a councilor. She refuses to go anymore. This was said at the very beginning.

Because maybe your daughter resents being made to feel that SHE is 100% the problem. In reality, the two of you likely contribute quite equally to the issues in your relationship. Maybe she'd be more amenable if she saw you owning a share of the problem...


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
Because maybe your daughter resents being made to feel that SHE is 100% the problem. In reality, the two of you likely contribute quite equally to the issues in your relationship. Maybe she'd be more amenable if she saw you owning a share of the problem...

That was a big issue with my ds when we were taking him to a counselor. The counselor pointed out that he was feeling like the scapegoat when it was the entire family that needed work. We stopped expecting him to go but continued to go ourselves. Even though our ds doesn't go the counseling has done wonders for our relationship with him.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
Because maybe your daughter resents being made to feel that SHE is 100% the problem. In reality, the two of you likely contribute quite equally to the issues in your relationship. Maybe she'd be more amenable if she saw you owning a share of the problem...

Aww... I really should learn my lesson that there is very little support in these forums.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 
That was a big issue with my ds when we were taking him to a counselor. The counselor pointed out that he was feeling like the scapegoat when it was the entire family that needed work. We stopped expecting him to go but continued to go ourselves. Even though our ds doesn't go the counseling has done wonders for our relationship with him.

I am doing what her therapist said. Taking care of DD2's problems first.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I am doing what her therapist said. Taking care of DD2's problems first.

I think you're missing the point of what I'm saying. It shouldn't be taking care of one before the other. It should be taking care of all equally. It's a difficult balancing act and I understand that it's not always equal all the time but you can't neglect one in favor of the other.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 
I think you're missing the point of what I'm saying. It shouldn't be taking care of one before the other. It should be taking care of all equally. It's a difficult balancing act and I understand that it's not always equal all the time but you can't neglect one in favor of the other.

I am doing what her therapist said. Apparently you seem to think her therapist is wrong. If the therapist is wrong, what is the point of seeing one?

And when it cost a lot of money, you do have to put what is likely to be of the most benefit first.


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## montlake (Mar 13, 2008)

Ok. I don't care if this gets me banned or whatever. This is ridiculous. Regardless of why you sent her to your mother's house, I can guarantee you she feels completely rejected by you. Also ADD is not cereberal palsy. It's not a thing that should cause you to ignore one child's needs for another. No matter how many people have said counseling for YOU, you still won't address that. It's just about how SHE refuses to go, just one more way this child is making your life miserable. It seems black and white to me that you don't want her at your house. You don't want to push the counseling because of YOUR hangups with it. You are ready to wash your hands of anything that may require more of your effort. You just want some magic pill that will make her be the good little girl, regardless of her own stuff she is going through. But guess what, she's not an adult yet. As hard as it is, you still have an obligation to this child to help her. I am so sick of hearing people time and again writing off teenagers because their needs are harder to work through. I went through a similar thing with my mother. To this day I feel the same sense of rejection everytime I see her. It's the reason that no matter what my own teen comes at me with, he gets nothing but unconditional support and the reason I would not in a million years ever ever even consider the possibility of sending him to live somewhere else. Because at the end of the day, the message is: you are too much trouble to deal with. No one should ever have to feel that from their mother. It's the reason that everything I have read from you in this thread makes my blood boil for this girl.

The more responses from you, the more I disagree with "bring her home no matter what". If you aren't willing or able to do the work with her to improve things, let her stay at your mother's house and just accept that you no longer have the same type of mothering relationship. Change your parenting to parenting a child away from home. But get off her back if you aren't doing anything to help.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *montlake* 
Ok. I don't care if this gets me banned or whatever. This is ridiculous. Regardless of why you sent her to your mother's house, I can guarantee you she feels completely rejected by you. Also ADD is not cereberal palsy. It's not a thing that should cause you to ignore one child's needs for another. No matter how many people have said counseling for YOU, you still won't address that. It's just about how SHE refuses to go, just one more way this child is making your life miserable. It seems black and white to me that you don't want her at your house. You don't want to push the counseling because of YOUR hangups with it. You are ready to wash your hands of anything that may require more of your effort. You just want some magic pill that will make her be the good little girl, regardless of her own stuff she is going through. But guess what, she's not an adult yet. As hard as it is, you still have an obligation to this child to help her. I am so sick of hearing people time and again writing off teenagers because their needs are harder to work through. I went through a similar thing with my mother. To this day I feel the same sense of rejection everytime I see her. It's the reason that no matter what my own teen comes at me with, he gets nothing but unconditional support and the reason I would not in a million years ever ever even consider the possibility of sending him to live somewhere else. Because at the end of the day, the message is: you are too much trouble to deal with. No one should ever have to feel that from their mother. It's the reason that everything I have read from you in this thread makes my blood boil for this girl.

The more responses from you, the more I disagree with "bring her home no matter what". If you aren't willing or able to do the work with her to improve things, let her stay at your mother's house and just accept that you no longer have the same type of mothering relationship. Change your parenting to parenting a child away from home. But get off her back if you aren't doing anything to help.

I am not ignoring her needs. I am doing what her therapist said to do. My mom lives a freaking mile away not 20. She spends at least one night a weekend here. I ask her to come her more often and she says no, she has homework or what not and she says she can't concentrate on it here.

I haven't even read past the 2nd sentence or so but I am totally done with this thread and posting here for support. Apparently that doesn't exist unless you believe in the therapy god and are rich enough to afford to send everyone.

THERAPY IS NOT THE MAGIC BULLET FOR EVERYTHING.

I have ordered a couple of those books from Amazon that will have to do for now.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I am doing what her therapist said. Apparently you seem to think her therapist is wrong. If the therapist is wrong, what is the point of seeing one?

And when it cost a lot of money, you do have to put what is likely to be of the most benefit first.

Therapists can be wrong. They are just people like you and me. That's why I said you have to shop around. You have to find the right therapist for your family's needs. Therapy is not a magic bullet but it can help if you let it. I'm surprised you aren't going to behavioral therapy for your child with ADD. It sounds like it's pretty extreme. The right therapist knows how to work the insurance system so that there is a diagnosis for your dd with ADD but the entire family gets counseling about everything, which makes sense since everything that goes on in the family would affect the child with ADD.

I'm sorry I don't have any other suggestions. The only other thing I can think of is to just wait it out. Hopefully, as she matures she will realize how her behavior is hurting herself and change it. My ds has matured a lot from 15 to 17. If you truly want your relationship with your dd to improve, though, you will have to acknowledge your part in the problem and change your behavior as well.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Also ADD is not cereberal palsy. It's not a thing that should cause you to ignore one child's needs for another.[/QUOTE]

BTW I had a friend with Cerebral Palsy in high school. He did not have behavioral problems that caused the house to turn into chaos within seconds. You can't compare the two. They are different.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 
Therapists can be wrong. They are just people like you and me. That's why I said you have to shop around. You have to find the right therapist for your family's needs. Therapy is not a magic bullet but it can help if you let it. I'm surprised you aren't going to behavioral therapy for your child with ADD. It sounds like it's pretty extreme. The right therapist knows how to work the insurance system so that there is a diagnosis for your dd with ADD but the entire family gets counseling about everything, which makes sense since everything that goes on in the family would affect the child with ADD.


I have an appointment for Vision Therapy for DD2 on Thurs. and my first appointment with some type of ADD therapist for her on Mon. Which is where the monetary resources are going.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

I have no idea if you are still reading. I hope you are.

I have a few thoughts - but first off I would like to say I respect your decision not to go to therapy. I get that not everyone can afford therapy or believes in therapy - it simply means you will have to find other resources.

There are (in all probability) free or close to free groups for parents of teens. You could check those out. It might be nice to have someone IRL to vent to.

As for your post - here is my take - YMMV.

There are numerous types of posts on mothering - some looking for support and some looking for advice. Yours (and I have read the OP twice) seems to be asking for advice. I don't think you should get angry or frustrated over lack of support - when it was more of an advice post, kwim?

You seem to be angry - period. Angry at your mother and DD, and they are angry at you......anger, anger, anger. You really cannot fix them - but you can work on yourself! There is a book that has been recommended called the dance of anger - I have not read it, but heard good things. Perhaps you could check it out?

As per the specifics of your post:

I would not ask her to babysit - at all! I know it sucks that you cannot ask her to babysit - but you just shouldn't. There seems to be a lot of score keeping going on - you have demands on DD (babysitting, grades) and your mother (ummm - watching your child, apologies, holidays) and they make demands on you. Enough. Someone has to stop the scorekeeping, and it might just be you.

I am not sure what to think about her living with grandma. Part of me is completely against it - _you do not like your mother for goodness sake and are letting a child live there,_ yet another part of me acknowledges that she is 15, and it might be better that she has some say in where to live. I just do not know - it is not an ideal situation.

Last thought - you say her grades are horrible. Is school working for her? Can she Homeschool or switch schools? It just seems that she must be miserable - not getting along with family memebers, not doing well at school - if there was one thing you could fix it might help with her quality of life.

Peace and good luck,

Kathy


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## THANKFULFORFIVE (Jan 8, 2009)

Tina, I just want to say how sorry I am and disappointed with the posts here. Perhaps some people don't realize how negative and accusatory they sound? I absolutely feel your pain and I am deeply saddened that from those whom you seeked support....have failed you. There are no easy fix-its for those difficult teen years. Trial-and-error, regret, forgiveness, despair, trust, compassion and strength are all terms that come to my mind from living through it... I will not judge you, nor should any of these other posters!


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *THANKFULFORFIVE* 
Tina, I just want to say how sorry I am and disappointed with the posts here. Perhaps some people don't realize how negative and accusatory they sound? I absolutely feel your pain and I am deeply saddened that from those whom you seeked support....have failed you. There are no easy fix-its for those difficult teen years. Trial-and-error, regret, forgiveness, despair, trust, compassion and strength are all terms that come to my mind from living through it... I will not judge you, nor should any of these other posters!

Thank you.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *THANKFULFORFIVE* 
Tina, I just want to say how sorry I am and disappointed with the posts here. Perhaps some people don't realize how negative and accusatory they sound? I absolutely feel your pain and I am deeply saddened that from those whom you seeked support....have failed you. There are no easy fix-its for those difficult teen years. Trial-and-error, regret, forgiveness, despair, trust, compassion and strength are all terms that come to my mind from living through it... I will not judge you, nor should any of these other posters!

I would like to second this, I have not been here since friday and can not believe the course that this thread has taken. I for one respect your choices ... have you looked at the consentual living group? - I am not the best advice giver but I really think you need to start by looking at the situation through her eyes, then look at yourself through your "parent" eyes. everybody deserves a little bit of compassion in this situation. Especialy you.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

I am not sure I found the group. I found one that only has 5 members. Do you have a link to the group? I did find this website: http://www.consensual-living.com/Essay4.htm

I will look it over more when the younger kids go to bed and I can think. Thanks


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

The only thing that is jumping out at me right now is the fact that you are co-parenting a teenager with someone who are in constant conflict with (your mom.) Its an impossible situation. Ideally, all the adults in your daughter's life should be working together, on the same page, with the same goals and with a basic level of respect toward each other. So I guess my only advice would be to either work things out with your mom, or else pull your daughter out of there and find some other source of support. I really think that if your relationship with your mom is unmendable, and your dd is being raised by her -- that you will loose her.

I also wanted to suggest a weekly "date night" with your daughter where the two of you go out somewhere without the other kids, and without any particular agenda then to spend time together and get to know each other again. And I would focus on her interests and priorities during that time. Even if it is just a walk together, but still dedicated time that can be counted on.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I am not sure I found the group. I found one that only has 5 members. Do you have a link to the group? I did find this website: http://www.consensual-living.com/Essay4.htm

I will look it over more when the younger kids go to bed and I can think. Thanks

here is the group site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consensual-living/
i think you will need to join first, but that does not take too long.
that is the website, there is some really wonderful reading on there too.


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

I wasn't going to post, but I think I should. Grandma is a big problem in this situation. If your DD isn't going to live with you, she needs to live with someone who is stable, consistant, has set rules and won't let her get away with all the crap, plus will get her into counseling and see her through to the end. Is there any aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, who can take her in?

While your DD is living apart from you, as long as the home she is in is under income, she can get OHP. Then she can get ALL the therapy and help she needs.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Dragon* 
I wasn't going to post, but I think I should. Grandma is a big problem in this situation. If your DD isn't going to live with you, she needs to live with someone who is stable, consistant, has set rules and won't let her get away with all the crap, plus will get her into counseling and see her through to the end. Is there any aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, who can take her in?

While your DD is living apart from you, as long as the home she is in is under income, she can get OHP. Then she can get ALL the therapy and help she needs.

She can't get on OHP as she is covered under Dh's insurance..and she refuses to go to therapy. There is no point in forcing someone to go cause they will just sit there and not talk. DH wasted years worth of MIL's copay money when she sent him.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Not sure what to say but







: for you, your dd, and your mom.


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