# What to do about my Mom and her unsolicited "advice"?



## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

I am seriously at my wits end with my Mother.







She has been on me since my DD was born about all the things I do "wrong", and it's driving a real wedge between us that I do not think she sees.

I actually tried to have a talk with her a couple weeks ago that I would really appreciate it if she would stop criticizing my every parenting move and trust that she raised me right to make the best decisions about raising my family, but that I'm an adult and she needs to please butt out of my buisness.

It didn't go over well... she cried to my Dad and he called me and gave me a lecture about being disrespectful to my Mother and that no matter what they will always be my parents. I told them I fully respect that they will always be my parents, but they need to respect that I am a parent and an adult and they need to stop trying to dictate to me and treat me like a child.

But things are just getting worse... For starters, this past weekend we were at my grandmother's birthday party and I start nursing DD and my Mom throws a napkin at me from across the table screeching that I need to cover up. I am a very discreet nurser, not that it should matter anyway!! But, I do try to take into consideration that my boy cousins may be a little freaked if I just whipped it all out. lol But anyway, she ALWAYS does this. And so I snapped, right in front of my Aunt and Uncle "Do NOT tell me how to feed my child." And I removed the napkin and continued to nurse DD.

This is not the first time something like this has happened... if we are out anywhere she is constantly trying to throw things over us. It makes me SOOO MAD!

Then last night she goes, "so how are you going to wean your DD? You know it's just going to get harder and harder the longer you nurse, you should really start thinking about that!"

I said I don't have any plans of weaning her anytime soon and that DD will self wean when she is ready. My DD is ONLY 7 months OLD! Wean her soon... wth?! I have spouted about WHO recommending at least 2 years, and have even shown her the breastfeeding guide from the hospital to do at least 2 years... yet she still must make a comment EVERY SINGLE FREAKIN day about when I'm weaning my DD. No matter how many times I tell her I have no plans to do so and to please stop bringing it up.

Then she starts in on how DD will never ever learn to put herself to sleep because most times she nurses to sleep and what kind of good habit is that to teach her and how sorry I'm going to be when she is a toddler and can't go to sleep on her own.







:

Then !!! The worst part! She started calling DD fat yesterday!! I told her to please not do that... in fact I may not have put in the please...







But DD is not fat... yes she is finally developing a little baby belly! My DD has been small since birth and weight has always been a big worry I'm freakin thrilled to see DD filling out some now!!

Then she kept yelling at me to put pillows down and how I'm not an observant enough Mom and other hurtful things... DD is starting to rock on her knees, starting to figure out crawling and my Mom FLIPPED on me how wrong I was to not have a pillow in front of DD's face in case she loses balance and falls down... I'm not going to wrap my child in bubble wrap for crying out loud... and I don't know anyone who lines their floor with pillows when baby is first learning to crawl... she will be fine!!

I think I'm a good Mom... but my Mom's constant hounding on me is making it really difficult to fully beleive I'm doing the right thing...

HELP!


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## Twocoolboys (Mar 10, 2006)

It sounds like you are doing a great job with your dd!

I've got an overly critcal relative too, except mine is my dh's grandmother, who we see frequently. My oldest is 10, my middle son is 5 and the youngest is 18 months. Fortunately, she has backed off considerably about the baby stuff. I guess she figures I know what I'm doing at this point or she just know's I'm not going to take her advice about solids, car seats, clothes, etc AT ALL. LOL

I did just have a problem with her criticizing our discipline with our 5 year old. We practice gentle discipline, but she thinks we are too hard on him. She is/was a permissive parent with any young kids in the family. And, my ds's behavior is much worse at her house because of it. She finds something to criticize everytime we are at her house, plus she directs it at the kids. For instance, she'll say to the baby "Isn't your mother going to get you a haircut?" or if one of the older two has a haircut "Oh! You're mother cut your hair!" Then, to me, "What'd you do that for?" LOL I really try to ignore, though sometimes it is hard to do that. I just get sick of it.

Anyway, your mom is flat out WRONG about the weaning. As someone who has nursed two children until age 2 and is still nursing a third, it does not get harder to wean the longer you go. It gets easier because the baby is eating more and more solid foods and you can gradually decrease nursing sessions over a long period of time. And pillows on the floor - LOL!


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## Twocoolboys (Mar 10, 2006)

I do want to add that, with our grandmother, talking to her does not work. She is what she is and will not change. It sounds like your mother might be similar, since you already tried talking to no avail.

I ignore my husband's grandmother and, when I get really frustrated, I stop taking the kids there to visit for a bit. I think she sometimes gets it when I do that because she will back off for a bit.


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## MamaStarbird (Oct 21, 2008)

It's hard for your parents to accept that their little girl is now a mother raising her own little girl, but if you don't put your foot down I don't think they'll ever really accept it.

Write your mother a letter so she has something tangible to look at as a reminder if she starts to overstep her bounds. Tell her politely how much you love and respect her and appreciate all that she's done for you and how challenging it must be to realize that you're now an adult and it's your turn to raise a baby. You understand that she has only the best intentions but her constant criticism is making you feel like she doesn't respect you and is making it unpleasant to spend time with her. You welcome polite questions about your parenting choices and would be happy to provide current medical info as needed (ie breastfeeding). You'd like her role as a grandma to be one of love and support for you and your daughter (ie, stop calling the baby fat!














, and if the negativity and criticism continues you'll have to start cutting your visits short.

Then follow through. If you're out in public together announce that you're going to nurse the baby now and if your mom is offended she's welcome to sit around the corner and you'll come get her when you're done. If you're visiting her and she starts harassing you about anything, tell her politely that you've asked her to respect your feelings and your parenting. If she doesn't back down and apologize, go home.

Will she cry to your dad? Probably. But if she has that letter clearly and lovingly telling her how you feel, SHE'S the one with a problem if she doesn't care enough about her daughter to take her feelings into account and treat her with kindness and respect.


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

I just realized this somehow got posted twice... I have no idea how that happened. Can a mod merge these, please? Thanks!!


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

What if you said something like "Stop treating me like a child. I'm the Mommy now, and I'll make the decisions that I feel are best for my family. You had a chance to raise your children and you did a great job, but now it's my turn. I may make some mistakes, but you have to trust me enough to allow me the chance to make them."

Then I'd let them know you're "taking a break" from them, and don't contact them or return their contact for however long you feel is appropriate. 3 days, a week, whatever.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

I want to offer a different perspective. I really like MamaStarbird's words. I think such a letter could be wonderfully done, and taken well. But that totally depends on the peronality of the person recieving the letter.

I wrote such a letter to my parents about my homebirth options, though not quite so sweet and more factual info, and it backfired. It just opened all my choices up for debate, and I did not change their views at all. They didn't respect me for it, they just argued more.

Much later I realized it was immature of me to think I could change them, or that it was even my job to change them. I can't change anyone, except myself. They have their beliefs, I have mine. So I let it go. I stopped trying to get them to see my view. And I got a great peace from that, a peace that permeated all my dealings with them. I still have that peace today.

Even better, because of this realization that I couldn't change them, my attitude to them changed. If they said or didsomething that I thought was nuts, oh well, I kept right about doing what I was doing, how I was doing it, and totally ignored them. I don't mean rudely ignore. Just, "oh, that's nice" to their crazy disrespectful comments, then kept right on with being the woman and mother I was. If they went to far, I said "Ok, that's disrespectful, I am leaving now or this conversation is ended" and I did it and meant it.

They got the message. It did not take long. Just as I figured out I was not going to change them, they quickly figured out they weren't going to change me, and they gave up. I'd say 90% of the stupid comments are gone, because everyone knows it isn't going to lead anywhere. And they have learned to respect me more, I think, because they had no other choice.

I will say it was a bit rough for a few months, because everyone in a family unit has a role they are glued into, and if anyone else gets out of line, everyone else tries to push them back into that role. Not because it is better, but because it is comfortable and expected. Everyone has to adjusst to their new role. But after a while they do. Good luck to you momma.


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## Tilia (Nov 18, 2006)

^^Yep. My XMIL is like that. As soon as I let it go and realized that I can't change her, things went smoother. I let her say whatever she wants with a smile on my face (to an extent). Then I go home and laugh about how crazy she is.


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

My husband told my mom that he wanted our family to develop its own distinct personality and for me to be a confident mother who found her own groove and wasn't constantly exposed to criticism or people trying to influence me to do things the way they thought it should be done, and if she couldn't respect that, he would protect his family by only allowing her to hang out with me when he was there. She wouldn't listen to me, but she did listen to him- I think it helped her realize that she is not "number one" in influencing my life anymore, he wants to be- and rightfully so! It REALLY helped.


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

My DH actually does want to have a sit down with my parents to discuss them letting up on "lecturing" us all the time... The do on everything, not just parenting, but finances and how often my DH does yardwork...

I'm afraid it would only make matters worse if he did this...


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JSMa* 
My DH actually does want to have a sit down with my parents to discuss them letting up on "lecturing" us all the time... The do on everything, not just parenting, but finances and how often my DH does yardwork...

I'm afraid it would only make matters worse if he did this...

Honestly, if it's this bad, I would develop a rote response to them every time they "lecture" you.

"I'm not looking for advice, this is how we're decided to handle this."
"I'm an adult now, this topic is not up for debate."
"I'm not willing to discuss this with you, I've made an informed decision."

Say it every time. Seriously. Every.time. Refuse to engage in the fight. Assert yourself. If they keep up, "We're going to leave (or, I have to ask you to leave), I'm not debating decisions we've made." and then leave (or leave hte room if they're in your home). It will probably get worse before it gets better, but really they have no right to be heckling you about every aspect of your adult lives.

You could preface it with a letter or discussion not *defending* your choices, but a discussion about that no matter how much you love them and respect them, you will no longer be defending your choices and that this kind of relationship needs to come to an end and a more adult relationship needs to begin - and that you won't allow them to treat you like a child anymore. Then, you just have to do it. It will be uncomfortable, but IMO far less uncomfortable and stressful for you long term than if you keep putting yourself in this environment.


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## caenach (Jun 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Much later I realized it was immature of me to think I could change them, or that it was even my job to change them. I can't change anyone, except myself. They have their beliefs, I have mine. So I let it go. I stopped trying to get them to see my view. And I got a great peace from that, a peace that permeated all my dealings with them. I still have that peace today.

Even better, because of this realization that I couldn't change them, my attitude to them changed. If they said or didsomething that I thought was nuts, oh well, I kept right about doing what I was doing, how I was doing it, and totally ignored them. I don't mean rudely ignore. Just, "oh, that's nice" to their crazy disrespectful comments, then kept right on with being the woman and mother I was. If they went to far, I said "Ok, that's disrespectful, I am leaving now or this conversation is ended" and I did it and meant it.

I think this is good advice. This is exactly how I'm approaching a similar situation with my mother. It's important for me to include my mother in my life and in DD's life, even if she is having a hard time being supportive of me as a parent right now. I just don't rise to the bait anymore. If she threw a napkin at me, I'd probably say "thanks," calmly fold it up, put it back on the table, turn to the person next to me, and resume conversation.

In my case, it also really helped me to reach a little more peace when I tried to think about WHY my mother was behaving this way. In my case, I think she sees my parenting decisions as a constant rebuke to her own. In some cases, they probably are. And you know, that *is* hurtful to her. I think she's also having trouble with transitioning from active parenting of children to being the mother of adults...and I think she envisioned herself as more directly involved and important in DD's life, maybe as a chance to redeem herself from past choices, maybe as a chance to prove that she IS good at parenting, I don't know. I can see that she's struggling with these things and I hope that she can find her way through them at some point, and be a positive part of my relationship with DD. Until then, though, I must learn to keep my doubt at bay and trust my own instincts.

It's hard when you don't have the support of the one person in your life who really ought to understand the challenges (and joys) of motherhood, but standing strong about your own parenting instincts is the right thing to do!


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## MamaStarbird (Oct 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
Honestly, if it's this bad, I would develop a rote response to them every time they "lecture" you.

"I'm not looking for advice, this is how we're decided to handle this."
"I'm an adult now, this topic is not up for debate."
"I'm not willing to discuss this with you, I've made an informed decision."

This. If they're this into controlling your life, my original suggestion may have been phrased too politely







.

And to clarify, I suggested the idea of writing a letter not to try and convince them of anything or to defend yourself, but just so your mom doesn't have an excuse if later she tries to claim, "Oh, that discussion got so emotional, I didn't think you meant it/I was too upset to listen to everything/I forgot."


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

I'm not a good one for advice here, because I finally had to sever ALL ties with my mother. After two decades of her "advice" (most of which was blatantly wrong, some of which was wrong for ME), it got to the boiling point. I wrote "the letter" the PPs are talking about. It was wonderfully written, not acusatory, but simply stated the facts. And she went ballistic.

I realized I had to "decompress" for hours after every visit with her. I realized I felt my normally-low blood pressure raise, and was losing hair. All because of the stress of my 70 year old mother. There are a few other factors involved, but the majority was her preaching parenting at me. She would even tell strangers how "naive" her daughter is when it comes to raising kids. Um, mom, I've been doing this a realllllly long time!

We no longer speak, she is no longer allowed to see the children. She is dead to me, and I don't feel any loss, sadly. I guess 20 years is a long time to be aggravated with a situation.

That being said, unless you want it to come to this (and no, I don't recommend it), you must rectify the situation or get very thick skin. But I will warn you - thick skin is a great thing - but talk to me in 15 or 20 years and tell me if she hasn't worn thru it.

It's rough. You have my sympathies.


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Hey Sweet Mama!

I'm sorry you are having this trouble..no fun...no fun and really, it spoils how awesome this time in your life is supposed to be. This is the point at which a mama is supposed to ease as best she can into an adult relationship with her child and it sounds like your mother is really struggling with the transition.

I think that it should be made clear to her that she is very quickly entering into "toxic behavior" territory and that you have far too much self respect to tolerate the inconvenience and poisonous effects of this type of relationship on your family life.

I think the rote response idea is key. I think you should jot down on your calander the exact day you decide to adopt that method of dealing with this and give it a period of time to sink in with her...if you see her daily, maybe give it two months, if you see her weekly...maybe a little more time than that, whatever feels good to you...and then, when that period of time has ended in your day planner, asses the situation. If she's getting better and you find your interactions are easier and easier all the time...continue on that road with the hopes that your behaving more like a confident adult will cause her to treat you more like a confident adult.

However, if it is NOT getting better....time to get a little more serious with her. Something like:

"look, mom, back in early August, I decided that something needed to change. I can't take the criticism anymore and am not interested in having a close relationship with someone who is constantly putting me down and bullying me. When you started being critical of my daughter, I knew it was time to put a stop to it. For the last three months, I have made a constant effort at redirecting and changing the subject, I have told you every single time you've disrespected me in conversation, that my parenting choices and my DDs wieght, etc are not up for discussion...and for three months, it hasn't even phased you. I'm beginning to see that there is nothing I'm going to be able to do, to help shift this behavior, this is obviously a change which needs to occur as a result of personal growth on your part and I sincerely hope that can happen soon.....because until such time that you can respect me as an adult and the mother of this child, I will have to insist that our visits be brief and for the sole purpose of allowing you ocassional access to your granddaughter. If you continue to struggle with showing me basic respect and/or continue to turn your criticisms toward my daughters body development, I'll have to cease all visits with you until you are an emotionally safe person for us to be around."

Don't back down on this, honey. I sensing an undercurrent of really manipulative behavior on your mothers part....crying to your father, your father getting on the phone with you and treating you like an 11 yar old?? I would have said "Oh, goodness, Pop, are you suffering some form of dementia? You must be, because I think you have me confused with my teenager self....I'm an adult now, remember? Anyway, gotta go, sorry mom is so upset, if she wants to talk with me about it, I'm around tomorrow! Bye!"

Seriously, you are a grown woman. You are someones WIFE and the MOTHER of a little girl....you don't need this in your life. It is toxic. You have enough you're trying to figure out with your husband right now (And to be quite honest, hearing this about your mother sheds a lot of light for me on some of the struggles you have had with your hubster) and you don't need to be navigating the added element of emotional sniping that your mother is bringing to your life...I get that it's hard for her to let go and see you parenting....but this is over the top.

Now she's doing it to your seven month old DD??? Ask yourself this question:

What is the likelihood that her critisizing your DD will stop...and what is the liklihood that it will grow and shift into something very similar to what you're deal with from your mom now??

I think the liklihood is that it will grow...that as your DD becomes bigger and more socially interactive, she too, will be sucked into this toxic way of relating and you really don't want that. Do it now, while your DD is a baby, so that you guys can put this toxic form of relating behind you and ride off into a supportive and loving future together....OR....so that you can decide NOW as opposed to LATER to cut your losses and get this toxic preson out of your life until she can shape up and start treating you like a grown woman.

GL...it's tough. I know.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I agree with those who said to just refuse to engage. The more you justify/defend/explain your parenting choices, the more she'll think they're up for debate, and she'll find little things to pick at with anything you say. But if you just completely refuse to engage ("Thanks, but we're fine." "Thanks, but we're happy with our decision." "Thanks, but that's private, could you please pass the bean dip?"), she'll have nothing to latch onto for an argument.

Also, it sounds like you spend a lot of time with her! Do you see her/talk to her daily? I'm not at all suggesting this as a way to punish her, but maybe it's time to build a more nuclear-family-oriented schedule and have grandparent visits on the weekends or something. One way to give someone the idea that they should be all involved in your business is to invite them over to your house every day, you know?


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

The weaning comment annoys me the most. At 7 months you're not weaning off the breast, you're weaning on to formula. Whats the point in that?


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I agree with those who said to just refuse to engage. The more you justify/defend/explain your parenting choices, the more she'll think they're up for debate, and she'll find little things to pick at with anything you say. But if you just completely refuse to engage ("Thanks, but we're fine." "Thanks, but we're happy with our decision." "Thanks, but that's private, could you please pass the bean dip?"), she'll have nothing to latch onto for an argument.

Also, it sounds like you spend a lot of time with her! Do you see her/talk to her daily? I'm not at all suggesting this as a way to punish her, but maybe it's time to build a more nuclear-family-oriented schedule and have grandparent visits on the weekends or something. One way to give someone the idea that they should be all involved in your business is to invite them over to your house every day, you know?


I don't exactly invite her over everyday... lol We rent their second house, so she has a key and she just shows up. Sometimes it's a big help to me and I'm able to eat dinner with both hands, or wash the pump parts and bottles to get ready for the next day...

But sometimes it's stifling... She actually had surgery last week and has been unable to visit, but I of course feel guilty if I don't visit often enough, and she calls whining that she misses the baby... I didn't go over there for two days this week and it was peaceful and DD and I were able to stick to our schedule.

I don't want to extract my Mom from my life... but I really really want to set up more healthy boundaries.

My DH just called me and apparantly he said something to my parents this morning when he dropped the baby off there. He told them I was really upset last night especially for how they attacked me and Mom said she could tell I was upset when I left...

He said they didn't say too much else... he still thinks it would be beneficial to all sit down this weekend and talk about it and how we both feel they are too intrusive in our lives, often.

I just know it's going to turn into an explosion of how I don't resepct them... But there has to be a line somewhere between respect and letting your "kids" live their own life, right? I'm almost 30 years old... my youngest sister is 23 and in grad school... They should have adapted to this whole empty nest syndrome, having adult children by now, right?


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

When you say she has a key and just shows up, do you mean she just walks into your house? Is that okay with you? Whether you rent from them or from someone else, they need to respect your home and boundaries. How does your DH feel about it?

You mentioned that sometimes her presence is helpful, and I'm sure it is, but sometimes in order to gain the autonomy we want, we have to give up some of the support we enjoyed, you know? Sometimes a period of not accepting any financial/babysitting/household help will show both you and her that you are fully capable of doing this on your own, but do enjoy her presence solidly in her grandmother role (which does not include providing input on parenting decisions).


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

: "help" isn't really helpful when there are these kinds of strings attached (mom being able to come into your home with a key whenever she wants, and feel she has input on your whole life including parenting).

I hope you're able to find some way to set up some stronger boundaries.


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
When you say she has a key and just shows up, do you mean she just walks into your house? Is that okay with you? Whether you rent from them or from someone else, they need to respect your home and boundaries. How does your DH feel about it?

You mentioned that sometimes her presence is helpful, and I'm sure it is, but sometimes in order to gain the autonomy we want, we have to give up some of the support we enjoyed, you know? Sometimes a period of not accepting any financial/babysitting/household help will show both you and her that you are fully capable of doing this on your own, but do enjoy her presence solidly in her grandmother role (which does not include providing input on parenting decisions).

B-I-N-G-O and BINGO was his name-o!

limabean is right on the money...it can be hard to give up that help....but babe, it's coming at too high a cost.

Empty nest or not...this is not an acceptable way for her to behave. If you push back with a firm and confident attitude and strong sense of self and who you want to be as a parent and it causes her to shift her mode of operating...then you can chock it up to empty nest pains and move on....but if she continues like this despite your true and best efforts to shift your relationship with her to a healthier place...you need to start accepting that there is some emotional sniping going on here and make her aware that her manipulation isn't working for you from an emotional place. You need a healthy relationship with your mom...you don't need what you have right now.

One thing that you said which concerns me: "I just know it's going to turn into an explosion of how I don't resepct them"

This drives me nuts, because you aren't asking for anything from them BUT respect. Somewhere onlong the line here, this idea of "Respect" and "I own you" were somehow merged and now (and believe me, my mother is like, the QUEEN of this) you demanding to be allowed to break free and run your own life in the manner which suits you is seen as deviating from the plan...lack of respect is not the problem here...the problem is, now that you have a baby, you're finding out that you simply do not have the emotional energy nor the desire to be in a constant back and forth over an emotionally super charged subject which is really none of your mothers business.

I would sincerely suggest writing a list of things your mother does to help and things your mother does which drive you insane. Show yourself in black and white, what it is your mother does regularly that makes you feel like crap....then ask yourself if you can see YOU behaving that way toward YOUR daughter...then, you have to decide that you are not going to accept her insane behavior any longer....if you can't do it, if you're not ready...that's fine - sometimes it takes time to move to a place of readiness in these issues...but you need to be actively working toward getting ready, you know?

You have a right to ask for the space you need....you have a right to break free from the pack...you have your own pack now, that doesn't mean that you don't wish to see your family as an extension of the loving group of people who saw you through your younger years and helped you up along the way....but being someone's mother doesn't entitle you to treat that person however you want to....my MIL is, in my soul....my true mother. See, you can pick that sort of thing.

In my heart, will always be love and fondness for the strange, damaged and unhappy person my mother is...she gave birth to me and she showed me the world....she did do some things right. But she harmed me, put me down and chose me LAST too many times....she lost my respect and she lost her place as my "true mother".....my MIL has loved me more deeply and with more respect than my birth mother ever has, I am sad to say, and so, my MIL....in my soul of souls...is my true mama.

You can demand respect from all people in your life, even your mother. And not HER VERSION of respect...YOURS, the manner of respect you think you deserve. It's not "what she says goes"...if something is not working for you...you have a right to expect reasonable change. When it comes down to it...if she loves you as much as she thinks her constant criticism should convey...she should jump at the chance to make you better FEEL that love.

And who knows...maybe this is one of those "love language" issues...maybe there IS deep love and respect....but her fear of seeing you fail or seeing you hurt cause her anxiety, so her love, the VERB in that idea, ends up being something someone toxic instead of actually loving.....in which case, the list becomes even more important....because the list will allow you to say:

"You know....when you xyz, it makes me feel so loved....but when you abc, it makes me feel so terribly judged and like you don't think I'm capable/good enough" - and maybe that would be useful??


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 
One thing that you said which concerns me: "I just know it's going to turn into an explosion of how I don't resepct them"

This drives me nuts, because you aren't asking for anything from them BUT respect.

Not only this, but anyone who "explodes" at their daughter when all she's asking for is to be treated like an adult...well, I'll just say I don't think respect is automatic, it's something that is earned...and exploding at me because I'm standing up for myself would NOT make me respect someone. It woudl do the exact OPPOSITE.


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

My mother will make it about me not loving her when I try to talk to her about this same issue. The real issue seems to be that she cannot love herself, and so she can't be happy unless other people love her. For my mom, all the unsolicited advice fits into the victim role that she plays. Growing up and breaking free for me is about me abandoning her, including all the decisions that I make that are not the same ones she made.

And you cannot talk to someone who is victim in their own mind. There is absolutely no way for them to hear anything but "blah blah blah. I hate you." I have tried every approach I can think of, but groveling and apologizing are the only things my mother understands. I have just decided that I am not responsible for her happiness and so, if she wants my love and respect, she will have to earn it.

I agree with PP that you need some clearer boundaries and more autonomy before you move forward. I would absolutely never complain about anything you do, and shut down the arguments before they start. And you should really think about if you want her in your life because you really do love her and value her company, or if you are projecting that value onto the relationship because she has made you believe you couldn't function without her.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JSMa* 
My DH actually does want to have a sit down with my parents to discuss them letting up on "lecturing" us all the time... The do on everything, not just parenting, but finances and how often my DH does yardwork...

I'm afraid it would only make matters worse if he did this...

Trust your gut. Do NOT have this conversation now.

Now that I know that you live in their second house, at least the yard work harassment makes some sense.

I'd try a three-pronged approach:
1. Develop a highly routine "That's nice, can you pass the dip?" phrase that you trot out. Maybe "thanks mom, I'll think about it."

2. Develop a really busy 'schedule' where you 'schedule in' visits to your parents as often as you can stand them. In my family, where my parents are relatively sane, that varies between once a week for some of my sibs to once every 2-3 weeks for others. If she drops in unannounced, then smile sweetly and say "I'm just about to run to the store. I'm sorry we can't stay here with you longer. We'll be back in a couple of hours." Then go. When she starts to tell you that it's a bad idea because it's your dd's bedtime/naptime/whatever, smile sweetly and say "Thanks mom, I'll think about it."

3. MOVE. Find other daycare. Some parents can separate themselves enough to let their kids live in a house they own. Yours clearly cannot. You know from experience that any 'help' you get comes with strings. These strings are: Your mom feels like it's her job to tell you how to do things (everything from finances to weaning), and you are not allowed to criticize her. Can you live with those strings? I couldn't.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

As usual, Lynn hits it out of the park.


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## denimtiger (Jan 22, 2009)

It sounds like there are a couple of big culprits here.

First of all, it sounds like you spend a lot of time with your mom, and rely on her help with the baby a lot.

Secondly, it sounds like your parents are still big on being in the parent role, and they see your dependence on them as a reason to really keep filling that parent role. And your living in a house that they own (and I may be wrong, but I'm going to guess that your rent or some aspect of living there is cheaper than finding a place on your own) IS being dependent on them.

Your mom probably also sees the areas where your parenting differs significantly from hers as indirect attacks on her parenting. My mom struggled with that too... I slept in a crib in another room from birth, was given formula (and Pepsi!) in a bottle, was passed around from relative to relative as a child, and my mom was still a young, extremely social person (she had me at 18, my dad was 20). My dd was born when she was 49, with a much more settled life and different viewpoints. My deliberately making choices that were different that hers both felt like I was attacking her parenting, and she felt like she'd missed out on something with me when I was a baby that I was now having with my dd -- I always went willingly with every grandma and auntie and never cried for her, my dd screamed to be back with me if I handed her to anyone, my mom included (except her baby-sitter, who was a good friend of my mom's) starting from the time she was two weeks old.

Our relationship was mostly positive, though, because I have refused dependency on them for a very long time. I've found my own places to live (and my own people to help move me into them), and paid my own bills (or immediately paid back any loans), and been 180% responsible for taking care of my own child. Yes, of course my parents have watched her and taken care of her ... but I've always made it abundantly clear that a) I have other options available if it's a problem, b) I much appreciate when it happens, c) it's a privilege for them.

I have, in the past, developed an incredibly "busy" schedule for long stretches of time where I can't even find the time to regularly return phone calls.

It's tough, but if you don't want them putting you in the child role, you can't put them into the parent role, by depending on them.

I do hope you find a way to set a firm but graceful boundary with your parents. Your mom sounds like she loves you and your dd very much. My mom, despite her imperfections loved us very much too. She was diagnosed with lung cancer when dd was 5 months old, and passed away the day after dd's 18-month birthday.

If they're anything like my parents, your dad has a bigger role in this than you think, it's just that your mom is assigned to "deal" with you. My dad is a wonderful and loving papa, and yet has much bigger very real boundary issues than my mom ever did. Any kind of dependency is a real clincher for a dad.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I agree with others that one of the problems is that you're still a little in the dependent role (living on their property, even though you're paying rent).

Man, I'd move on out of there if I could.

I can't talk, because I have major mother issues myself (the issues probably aren't that major, but my feelings about them are!). My mother has to be in control of everything, not just me. I am finding it's a process. I'm growing older, more mature. I am more able to assert myself and put my foot down - with everyone, not just my mother, but with a doctor or a neighbor causing trouble, anything. And when I push back on my mother, it's not easy at all, and there are a lot of emotions, sometimes yelling, sometimes crying - but I see that more and more she's starting to kind of "get it" and can sometimes even surprise me when I tell her to back off (and she'll just - well, back off).

So, that's part commiseration, part agreement with others to consider moving, and part hope that you may be able to maintain your relationship on some level but still actually grow into your own adult self.


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## Whistler (Jan 30, 2009)

Reading through this thread, some of the PP's have had wonderful advice. I especially loved the "Thanks, mom, I'll think about it" line.

I have a few little ideas to add coming from a position of being close to my mom too and also having a mom who is really easily offended like yours is.

It really helps to make my mom feel like her wisdom and advice is helpful and needed. After all, she does have a lot of years on me. But there are quite a few times when I have a different opinion and I've found that in those situations a little tact goes a long way. It is sad to me that families often treat their closest members with the least amount of respect and their most distant friends with the most politeness. I've tried being polite to my mom and going out of my way to make her feel like I don't think she is wrong, even if I plan to do the exact opposite of what she's suggesting.

For example, she gave me some Bf'ing advice when I had my first that did not work for me and contributed to me not succeeding in breastfeeding my daughter at all. (She told me to nurse only 10-15 minutes per side... turns out I have such slow flow I have to nurse 45 minutes total every time.) So now when she gives me Bf'ing advice I thank her for being interested and caring and then as soon as she's gone, I do the exact opposite.

The other bit of advice is to compromise. I know it's really important to you to bf your baby in public or to not put down a pillow. But are these things really deal-breakers? I guess if it offended my mom, I'd probably not think covering was that big of a deal, at least while she's right there. Or a pillow. I guess although I don't bubble-wrap my kids either, if my mom wanted a pillow under the baby, I'd laugh and throw one down... I mean that is so not something to fight over IMO.

I'd say it would be worth it to pick your battles. Fight to keep your finances private. That's worth a battle. But a pillow? Not so worth it, IMO. You're going to have everyone and their dog criticize your parenting during the entire time you're raising kids. You have to find a place within yourself where you're comfortable with your choices and you don't need to change other people to get that affirmation. I can say this because I am preaching to myself.

I didn't mean to write a book here and I REALLY didn't mean to pull you down or change your mind about feeling upset because I totally understand. But I am finding in my own life that I get a lot less stressed out if I let differing opinions run off my back instead of stewing over them. And it doesn't compromise your philosophies or beliefs to give in once in a while over small issues.

Just my $0.02... take it or leave it.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Whistler* 
The other bit of advice is to compromise. I know it's really important to you to bf your baby in public or to not put down a pillow. But are these things really deal-breakers? I guess if it offended my mom, I'd probably not think covering was that big of a deal, at least while she's right there. Or a pillow. I guess although I don't bubble-wrap my kids either, if my mom wanted a pillow under the baby, I'd laugh and throw one down... I mean that is so not something to fight over IMO.

I'd say it would be worth it to pick your battles. Fight to keep your finances private. That's worth a battle. But a pillow? Not so worth it, IMO.

And see, I don't think her mom should get her way on the small stuff just because she's been a UAV about something big.


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## buttercups.nest (Jul 2, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
Honestly, if it's this bad, I would develop a rote response to them every time they "lecture" you.

"I'm not looking for advice, this is how we're decided to handle this."
"I'm an adult now, this topic is not up for debate."
"I'm not willing to discuss this with you, I've made an informed decision."

Say it every time. Seriously. Every.time. Refuse to engage in the fight. Assert yourself. If they keep up, "We're going to leave (or, I have to ask you to leave), I'm not debating decisions we've made." and then leave (or leave hte room if they're in your home). It will probably get worse before it gets better, but really they have no right to be heckling you about every aspect of your adult lives.

You could preface it with a letter or discussion not *defending* your choices, but a discussion about that no matter how much you love them and respect them, you will no longer be defending your choices and that this kind of relationship needs to come to an end and a more adult relationship needs to begin - and that you won't allow them to treat you like a child anymore. Then, you just have to do it. It will be uncomfortable, but IMO far less uncomfortable and stressful for you long term than if you keep putting yourself in this environment.

This is exactly what I had rumbling around in my brain but couldn't put into words! I am fortunate to have both parents and inlaws that don't interfere with my parenting and are starting to realize that I will put my foot down. So I haven't been there but I do feel your frustration! I hope things get better for you!


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
And see, I don't think her mom should get her way on the small stuff just because she's been a UAV about something big.

I agree. The overall picture is that OP's mother is controlling and hurtful, and while she may "have more experience" etc., that does not allow her to dictate OP's choices when they are obviously against her intentions. "Choose your battles" only applies when the battle is about the actual issue and not about who has control.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *denimtiger* 
It sounds like there are a couple of big culprits here.

First of all, it sounds like you spend a lot of time with your mom, and rely on her help with the baby a lot.

Secondly, it sounds like your parents are still big on being in the parent role, and they see your dependence on them as a reason to really keep filling that parent role. And your living in a house that they own (and I may be wrong, but I'm going to guess that your rent or some aspect of living there is cheaper than finding a place on your own) IS being dependent on them.

Your mom probably also sees the areas where your parenting differs significantly from hers as indirect attacks on her parenting.

This is right on the money. If you rely on her to babysit, to have cheap housing or vacation... then you are still being not just her child, but a child, because you depend on her. In the way I can only see a vicious cycle continuing.

A friend of mine lives in her parents 2nd home, with cheap rent, and complained to me how her mom wouldn't let her repaint a room the way she wanted. I couldn't defend my friend, I think if she is getting a cheap place from her parents then it isn't her right to decide what color it is. And if you are getting cheap or free baby sitting, then you can't complain about the services you get for free. So if she baby sits, it should only be in the role of a loving grandma, not as you depending on her to babysit. So in the meantime you may have to not have her baby sit for a while. And you REALLY need to move. Living in a dump with bare necessities is better than still being the dependent child. And if you owe any money, pay it off. It was very very sad day for my mom when I paid off my final IOU to her. She kept trying to get me to only pay half. She wanted that over my head. Even when it is stated there are no strings attached, there often are. Even with very good, well intentioned people there are strings. Lastly as denimtiger pointed out, when we do things differently, some people take it as a personal attack on the way they did things. They may feel that you feel they did not raise you well enough, good enough.... just because you are doing it differently. Nothing you can do about that, they have to get through their own insecurities by themselves.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Well, I told my mom that she can shut up or she can lose all contact with her beloved grandbaby. It shut her up for 98% of the crap. But I cut all contact with my mom a long time ago and only grudgingly let her back into my life when I was pregnant. So we have a different relationship--she knows she is walking on thin ice.


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## Mama.Pajama (Jul 16, 2008)

Is you mother babysitting while you go to work?

If so, as PPs have suggested,
1. You are depending on your mother for childcare
and
2. Your family is depending on your parents financially.

These two things are exacerbating your problem with your mother's unsolicited advice and disrespect. They have leverage, and it sounds like they are using it.

Try this: Ask your mother, "Do you think you have the right to constantly disrespect and bully me because we depend on you for babysitting and the rent house?"
I wonder what she will say...

Regardless of her answer, it may well be worth looking into alternatives, like perhaps if you could stay at home with baby instead of leave her with grandma, or maybe your MIL or another relative would be a more suitable choice for childcare.

As a PP said, I would not be okay with my mother showing up unexpectedly, whether or not she "owned" the house or not- it's extremely invasive, not to mention extremely _rude_. And to think, she is squealing at you for nursing a 7 month old in front of the family... Sounds like her concept of "rude" or "socially unacceptable behavior" is quite skewed.

It sounds like your husband is on board with you about this, so maybe a talk with him about finding alternative options for housing and childcare would be your first step.

Good luck


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

s I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm right there with you. We (DH, DS & now DS2 & I) have been living with my dad for a little over 2 years. We get along pretty well - I love my dad and he respects our decisions, doesn't spoil DS constantly, and has been really great to live with. Unfortuantly though, my dad's back has been in and out for like the past year... and he finally had surgery on Wednsday to fix it, as its just been awful for like a month now.

As a result, my moms been here for the last... 3+ weeks now "helping". And she needs to leave. I get along fine with my dad, but I do *NOT* get along with my mom. At all. I love her, but I do *not* like her. And she's taking over the house and my DS and its really not working out. To the point that if she sticks around for much longer, I'm going to have to have a chat with my dad (who apprently has an 'agreement' with her), about whether he wants HER here or US here, because he can't have both. DS getting spoiled by grandma occasionaly is one thing. Spoiled by grandma 24/7 for a month is something entirely different (if DH or I tell DS 'no' to something he goes running off to grandma who will give him practicly whatever he wants whenever he wants it.).

So yeah... big hugs. Moms suck.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

lurking here - and curious as to what you all would do when the grandparents are caregivers PT (10-15 hrs a week) with *no* other options.










this pertains to "discipline" issues in my case - my parents want to do some major discipline, which they are really inconsistent with, and complain to me in front of my kids all the time about the kids behavior and my parenting. When I appriach my mom - she says "I know I am the worst person in the world and everyone hates me....."


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

I think you're going to have to give up some of the conveniences to 'prove' that you are an adult at this point.

Finding a different place to live would be #1 on my list. You are living in their house- even if you rent it, they will feel (given the dynamic) that they are helping you.

Alternative care would be another ASAP thing- let them be grandparents, not caregivers.

I get it, we are very close with my family and they are incredibly supportive, but it too my drawing pretty firm boundaries a few years ago to get them past the 'parent' point, to the grandparent point. It took a while, but eventually everyone moved to a point where it's a really positive relationship for everyone involved.

We have a weird family structure, I go visit most mornings to chat over coffee, and we have a family garden on our property that everyone contributes to. We get together pretty regularly for dinner together and generally have a really close-knit family- but to accomplish that in a HEALTHY way, I had to pull back a lot early on and prove that I could do it all alone- to myself as much as to them.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *confustication* 

We have a weird family structure, *I go visit most mornings to chat over coffee, and we have a family garden on our property that everyone contributes to. We get together pretty regularly for dinner together* and generally have a really close-knit family- but to accomplish that in a HEALTHY way, I had to pull back a lot early on and prove that I could do it all alone- to myself as much as to them.

that.is.awesome.


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## trinity6232000 (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Much later I realized it was immature of me to think I could change them, or that it was even my job to change them. I can't change anyone, except myself. They have their beliefs, I have mine. So I let it go. I stopped trying to get them to see my view. And I got a great peace from that, a peace that permeated all my dealings with them. I still have that peace today.

Even better, because of this realization that I couldn't change them, my attitude to them changed. If they said or didsomething that I thought was nuts, oh well, I kept right about doing what I was doing, how I was doing it, and totally ignored them. I don't mean rudely ignore. Just, "oh, that's nice" to their crazy disrespectful comments, then kept right on with being the woman and mother I was. If they went to far, I said "Ok, that's disrespectful, I am leaving now or this conversation is ended" and I did it and meant it.









:

I took a similar approach. When ever I got "advice" I simply stated the same exact phrase every time. "Hmmmm, that's something to think about". Then changed the subject. With some well meaning family members they would continue to advice, and I would just simply keep saying the same phrase over and over, and *again* changing the subject. It takes more time with some, but most get the message.

The thing is, most people give "helpful advice" do think they are being helpful. As much as they come at others like an attack, it's well meaning. Most won't change. A letter or a sit down talk with only make the person, who feels they are being helpful, feel attacked. So you keep being the awesome mother you are, and let them get the message in their own time that your fine.

I like the advice that AllisonR gives about saying "Ok, that's disrespectful, I am leaving now or this conversation is ended", if the advice goes too far. Take care of you.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

"You had your chance at parenting. Now shut up."


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
lurking here - and curious as to what you all would do when the grandparents are caregivers PT (10-15 hrs a week) with *no* other options.










this pertains to "discipline" issues in my case - my parents want to do some major discipline, which they are really inconsistent with, and complain to me in front of my kids all the time about the kids behavior and my parenting. When I appriach my mom - she says "I know I am the worst person in the world and everyone hates me....."









I think it just depends on how severe the issues are. If your kids' caregivers are doing something abusive or damaging, then IMO the only thing there's "no option" about is removing the kids from their care immediately. If they're only doing something annoying, then you need to decide how much it bothers you and whether the overall level of care is good enough to make it worth it to you.

In general, though, I don't believe in saying that there are no other options. If the grandparents didn't live nearby, or got jobs and weren't available, or weren't living anymore, or became physically or mentally incapacitated and were no longer able to care for children, you'd figure out another option. Accepting potentially damaging childcare because it's inexpensive or convenient isn't cool. (As I said before, if it's merely irritating, that's one thing, but I've seen people let dangerous grandparents continue to care for their kids because they don't want to pay for childcare/rock the boat, and that's abusive, IMO.)


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I'd LOVE to pay for childcare.


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## denimtiger (Jan 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I think it just depends on how severe the issues are. If your kids' caregivers are doing something abusive or damaging, then IMO the only thing there's "no option" about is removing the kids from their care immediately. If they're only doing something annoying, then you need to decide how much it bothers you and whether the overall level of care is good enough to make it worth it to you.

In general, though, I don't believe in saying that there are no other options. If the grandparents didn't live nearby, or got jobs and weren't available, or weren't living anymore, or became physically or mentally incapacitated and were no longer able to care for children, you'd figure out another option. Accepting potentially damaging childcare because it's inexpensive or convenient isn't cool. (As I said before, if it's merely irritating, that's one thing, but I've seen people let dangerous grandparents continue to care for their kids because they don't want to pay for childcare/rock the boat, and that's abusive, IMO.)


I agree with this completely. Also, if there are NO other options, as in there is NO possible way to afford other childcare, or no other way to afford a place to live, you ARE still a dependent child on these people, and it's not hard to see how you'd get treated as such. Turning 18 (or 45!) or having a baby (or 6) does not magically make a person an independent adult, and I don't personally think that it's that hard to understand why a person who has someone depending on them like that would have a hard time treating them like they were an independent adult. I think human beings are wired that way to purposely promote independence. The whole idea is that parents be overly "parenty," and offspring push back against that to become independent.

I don't mean to sound harsh, and I'm definitely biased in this area because I have definitely seen what the negative consequences are when parents allow their adult children all the freedoms of "independence" when they aren't actually behaving independently. There are 55-year-old teenagers in my own family.

If you need help, you need help. There isn't anything wrong with that. But if it's a long-term committment to being helped, it probably comes with a price tag of still being parented.


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## denimtiger (Jan 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
I'd LOVE to pay for childcare.


If it's a huge issue that's causing emotional turmoil in your family, then you DO pay for childcare. Sometimes even just for a little while until family gets the idea that you are capable and in charge, and you WILL do what you feel is best for your own family.

You say, I've found a daycare that I want to use and I feel like this is the best decision for me, dh, and the kids right now. We are at each other's throats over issues about the kids right now, and I think we all need a break from it. The kids don't need to be party to it. Clearly, you're not happy with the way we're disciplining, so right now we need to be taking the kids to someone who respects our choices. We'd still love to spend time with you on the weekend, and you're welcome to do other things with the kids if you wish.

Yes, smothering family members get bent out of shape over this, of course they do. But they also learn to see you differently and understand what your boundaries are (or, they don't and you gain some distance from an emotional trainwreck).

I know it's not as easy as it sounds. I have family who would get bent about my spending money on childcare when I could have it for free (although, in my case, nobody who could _wants_ to provide it for free to MY daughter on a regulr basis... only to my nephew whose married mom stays at home and "does daycare" I'm a single WOH mom - that's another vent!), so I don't have that particular battle most of the time.

Families aren't easy. Setting boundaries is easier with a screaming two-year-old is generally easier than with an overbearing grandparent. But if it's important to you and disrupting your family life, your choices are to either set the boundary or to live with it.


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## yarngoddess (Dec 27, 2006)

What an interesting thread. I find the active parent- child and parent- adult child relatioship structure very interesting. I am always interested in how other families function. Mine is severely dysfunctional. My DH's is severely dysfunctional- on steroids lol. His family is worse than mine, but he has a bigger family than I do.

I think OP needs to take a step back. You need some time away from your parents. If they come over unannounced- get a sliding lock on the door. Tell them that you aren't feeling good, and that you'll see them next week.

If your DH has a good relationship with your parents, then if you are comfortable with it sure, you can allow him to talk to them. BUt be aware that in most families it is a recipie for disaster. That's why most of us (imo) have the rule of I deal with my family and you deal with yours, in my marriage.

So you live in their rental house. OK, I live in my FIL's "rental" too. He NEVER EVER has walked right in. He tried the first day, and I blew up at him, I later appologized-but still! He now knocks, and would only come right in if there was an emergency or a disaster or something very important. You do need to discuss her use of the key she has. Just because she is the landlord does NOT give her the right to come right in. She needs to at least knock.

I think that on top of your DH talking to your parents (if you choose to do that) you need to adapt the bean dip. "I'll think about that, can you get me a drink?" "I'll think about that, did you see America's got Talent last night?" and then change the subject.

Keep us posted about how this plays out. I'm so interested in how this kind of family dynamitics work.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

So when a person is severely financially challenged, and relys on family for help, they forfeit their right to raise their children in the manner which they see fit? wtf?







:

When you have more than 1 child, even with assistance, it is often impossible to afford childcare...Especially when someone is in school and their is virtually no income.


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## mamadebug (Dec 28, 2006)

My DS is 4, and my mom has given me tons of parenting "advice" covering nursing, sleep, discipline, pretty much any topic relating to a baby/toddler/preschooler. I have consciously chosen the way I parent. I have given my parenting choices a lot of thought. They are, for the most part, very different than the way I was parented. I found her advice stressful and it caused a lot of conflict. At one point I realized that she interpreted my rejection of her advice, and in fact my parenting style in general, as a rejection of how she parented me. Which, in a round about way, makes sense - your mom is giving you advice based on what she would do or did do. Although my mom didn't say it, it was really bothering her. For me, my experiences as a child are part of what shaped my different parenting views and has led me to clearly make very different choices than my parents did. The goal wasn't to cause my mom to feel rejected or that I reject her or that I think she did a poor job parenting (all things she brought up once we finally had a good talk about this all).

So, I approached it two ways. First, I initiated a conversation where I tried to be really loving and respectful. I told her that I appreciated that she did the best she could with what she knew at the time. I also explained that beliefs about childhood nutrition, discipline, or whatever have changed a lot since I was a baby. I am not so much trying to reject her parenting style as incorporate this knowledge into my parenting style. I have books on any of these subjects and have offered to share them with her. Luckily, she has been mostly receptive. Of course, that didn't completely end the annoying advice.....so, the second part of the approach is that I now let it go and just smile and say something along the lines of "thanks for letting me know...I'll think about it".


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
In general, though, I don't believe in saying that there are no other options. If the grandparents didn't live nearby, or got jobs and weren't available, or weren't living anymore, or became physically or mentally incapacitated and were no longer able to care for children, you'd figure out another option. Accepting potentially damaging childcare because it's inexpensive or convenient isn't cool. (As I said before, if it's merely irritating, that's one thing, but I've seen people let dangerous grandparents continue to care for their kids because they don't want to pay for childcare/rock the boat, and that's abusive, IMO.)









:


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## denimtiger (Jan 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
So when a person is severely financially challenged, and relys on family for help, they forfeit their right to raise their children in the manner which they see fit? wtf?







:

When you have more than 1 child, even with assistance, it is often impossible to afford childcare...Especially when someone is in school and their is virtually no income.










Nobody said anything about forfeiting the right to raise your children in the way you see fit. People have free will, and if they have legal custody of their chilren they can do whatever they want with them. I just think it's asking a lot of a person who is supporting someone to have NO _opinion_ whatsoever in the matter. When money/time/resources belong to someone, that someone generally feels entitled to some control over how they are spent.

Obviously if you are giving those things to another legal adult, you can't actually dictate what they do with them. As a human being, though, it's hard not to have an opinion about how your belongings are used.

If you need help, then you do. And it's wonderful to have a family with the resources and the willingness to help -- lots of people don't. I just think it's unrealistic, and perhaps a bit unfair, to ask one's family for help and for them to completely butt out at the same time. Interviewed and monetarily paid baby-sitters offer a lot less unsolicited "advice" than "free" baby-sitters who know you can't just pick up and take your kids elsewhere for the same deal.

It's not bad to need help. Needing help doesn't mean you can't do what you want with your kids. It just costs you unsolicited advice instead of dollars. Every person has to decide for themselves which one their family can better afford.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *denimtiger* 
I just think it's asking a lot of a person who is supporting someone to have NO _opinion_ whatsoever in the matter. When money/time/resources belong to someone, that someone generally feels entitled to some control over how they are spent.

Obviously if you are giving those things to another legal adult, you can't actually dictate what they do with them. As a human being, though, it's hard not to have an opinion about how your belongings are used.

ITA.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
So when a person is severely financially challenged, and relys on family for help, they forfeit their right to raise their children in the manner which they see fit? wtf?







:

When you have more than 1 child, even with assistance, it is often impossible to afford childcare...Especially when someone is in school and their is virtually no income.










No, I don't think anyone said this at all. If you have already become a self-sufficient mature adult, and you temporarily need help, this does not make you a dependent child again. It just means you need help at this moment. All people of all ages can have a crisis that causes this.

Let me give you a concrete example. I paid off my last IOU to my parents at around age 23. Then I lived on my own, had a job and paid my own way.... until age 29. I then left a cocain addict sociopath husband, and moved in an extra room in my parents apartment, in another state, with literally my clothes and a paycheck for 700 bucks. That did not last long.

It took me close to 9 months to get a decent paying job so I could move out. Until then I was dependent on my parents - I paid no rent, I ate their food, they let me use their car for basically free.... But everyone was clear that I had already been an indenpendent adult for years, and this was a temporary situation where I needed help and support from my family, and I am lucky they were there to provide it. But yes, at the time, they still had their say. For example I played music in "my room" on my computer. It was low, but since I had no money I had literally 1 album, so that was all I played. My mom finally asked me to play something else. Well, I had nothing else, so I stopped playing it. Their house, they get to decide.


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

To shed some light on things... Our rent isn't that much cheaper than normal rent... if we moved it would only be about $100 more a month, but likely we'd save money because we pay all utilities here... and we have electic and oil heat... it costs A LOT to fill an oil tank for a house, and most rentals do not have oil heat.

We moved into this house to HELP my parents. They have been flipping houses and got stuck with this one when the economy and market crashed and after it sat empty for a year and a half, they were desperate to have some income coming in from it... DH and I were looking for a place at the time and decided to help them out.

So as it is right now... they DEPEND on US for this rent... I'd feel like a total ass moving out right now because I know that they desperately need this money.

Also... childcare... My Mom only babysits for 5 hours on Friday... it's her Grammy day. Is 5 hours a week really too much time to let her watch my DD? Is 5 hours a week really depending on her and opening the gates for her to give her opinions?

I wouldn't say we are dependent upon them...


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## denimtiger (Jan 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JSMa* 
To shed some light on things... Our rent isn't that much cheaper than normal rent... if we moved it would only be about $100 more a month, but likely we'd save money because we pay all utilities here... and we have electic and oil heat... it costs A LOT to fill an oil tank for a house, and most rentals do not have oil heat.

We moved into this house to HELP my parents. They have been flipping houses and got stuck with this one when the economy and market crashed and after it sat empty for a year and a half, they were desperate to have some income coming in from it... DH and I were looking for a place at the time and decided to help them out.

So as it is right now... they DEPEND on US for this rent... I'd feel like a total ass moving out right now because I know that they desperately need this money.

Also... childcare... My Mom only babysits for 5 hours on Friday... it's her Grammy day. Is 5 hours a week really too much time to let her watch my DD? Is 5 hours a week really depending on her and opening the gates for her to give her opinions?

I wouldn't say we are dependent upon them...


This being the case, then you are well within your rights and abilities to be more firm about setting boundaries.

NO, having a "Grammy day" is not a gateway to her giving opinions. The constant dropping over and taking over the baby while you take a shower or do bottles, though, is an opening into your everyday lives, and I might back away from that until the boundaries are more established and you're emotionally more comfortable with it. You may have to be open and direct about it. "Mom, it's stressful to us when you're here criticizing everything all the time. We need some time to bond as a family. For right now, let's just do Fridays." And then, stick to it for awhile. Yeah, she's going to get upset. But your relationship is going to settle into a more natural adult mommy/grandma place if you aren't seeing your mom nearly every day.

Ideally, once you've been firm and let your mom know what your boundaries are, and what lines it's not okay to cross, you won't have to be firm forever, and your lives can be a little more integrated with a relationship with your parents. Right now, though, I'd draw a box around my family and stick to the boundary -- let her know that being fair to your emotions is a _condition_ of spending time with you and your daughter, Fridays included. Let them get upset, but stick to your guns. Call my baby fat -- miss your Friday, we'll try again next week! Keep asking me when I'm going to wean, understand that I'm going to need a day or two to recoup before I can handle talking to you again.

You are an independent adult. You have other options besides dealing with them. Let them know it's time for them to play fair and give your emotions and boundaries respect, too.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
So when a person is severely financially challenged, and relys on family for help, they forfeit their right to raise their children in the manner which they see fit? wtf?







:

No, I don't think you forfeit your rights, it's just that you have no leverage if the grandparents decide not to listen to you. If you were paying someone for childcare and didn't like the way they did things, you could pull your child from their care. With free childcare from your parents, you have nowhere to go (unless you can find a way to pay for it), and they know that, so if they decide not to follow your rules, there's not really anything you can do about it. You just give up a lot of power, unfortunately. I'm not saying that's fair, but it's reality.

JSMa -- thanks for clarifying your situation, it was hard to tell from your OP how much help you were receiving from your parents. I would still firm up the boundaries. Install a slider lock, chain, or even just a hook and eye on the inside of your doorframe so that having a key won't allow her entry into your house. Be "busy" a lot, and use the "beandip" tactic a lot rather than engaging in debates about your parenting decisions.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JSMa* 
We moved into this house to HELP my parents. They have been flipping houses and got stuck with this one when the economy and market crashed and after it sat empty for a year and a half, they were desperate to have some income coming in from it... DH and I were looking for a place at the time and decided to help them out.

Well, this puts the situation in a different light. I think perhaps in your moms warped mind that she has this situation reversed, that she feels she owns the place she can do as she likes. In which case the result may still be the same, you need to move out. It won't be a financial problem, and it will probably help you set up firmer boundaries in YOUR space. In many cases a family rental can work, but I don't know with your families dynamic - only you know for sure.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JSMa* 
So as it is right now... they DEPEND on US for this rent... I'd feel like a total ass moving out right now because I know that they desperately need this money.

Well, that gives you a bit of leverage then. It sounds like your parents are pretty good at the guilt thing (mine are too!).

"Mom, I love you. It might cause a lot less conflict in our relationship if we weren't renting your house. I need to establish my own family. If you keep dropping over unannounced and letting yourself in, I'm sorry, but we'll have to move. You wouldn't do that with another tenant, and it's not fair to me."

Obviously, you can only say this if you mean it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JSMa* 
Also... childcare... My Mom only babysits for 5 hours on Friday... it's her Grammy day. Is 5 hours a week really too much time to let her watch my DD? Is 5 hours a week really depending on her and opening the gates for her to give her opinions?

It shouldn't be, but your mom seems to have a bit of trouble with boundaries. If it's 5 hours a week and your daughter is safe (physically and emotionally), I'd continue it.

And really, I'd perfect that "Thanks mom, we'll think about it" response. Your mom cannot control what you do. She can't even make you argue if you don't engage! Remember, it takes two to argue. It's a lesson that my 5 year dd was apparently sent to me so I could master at this late age of 43. Sometimes no response is the best response.

The other thing to think about doing is that when she starts to freak out about something ask her why "why does it bother you so much that I'm breastfeeding at 7 months?" Then HEAR HER OUT. Don't say a word. When she's done, you can then say, "It's interesting to hear what ideas about parenting were like when you were raising me." I fyou have to, you can follow it up with "This is what my doctor said was best for us. How's your garden growing?"

I think someone else hit the nail on the head when they said that your rejection of your mother's advice = criticism of how she raised you. It's not rational or even true, but it's how a lot of people interpret that.


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