# Weaning my baby and what do you replace nursing with?



## mrscompgeek (Nov 15, 2007)

*Please dont flame me for weaning my baby. I know alot of people on here are baby led weaning and thats totally fine but for us this is what we have to do. Every family/ every child is different and we are doing whats right for us/my daughter at the moment.*

I am slowly weaning my almost 11 month old. She was nursing
when she woke up in the morning
after her morning nap
after her afternoon nap
bedtime

Last week I stopped nursing her after her afternoon nap. Instead I gave her 2-3 ounces of watered down apple juice and either 1/2 banana or some home made graham cracker. She did totally fine. Never even wanted to nurse.
Now next week Im going to start working on not nursing after her morning nap. My goal is to drop a nursing session once every 2 weeks.
My question is- what do you replace the nursing sessions with? I dont want to give her juice and crackers both times, should I give her solids or just stick with a bottle of juice for now? We dont drink milk in my house so I really dont want to give her cows milk.
She eats veggies and fruit purees at breakfast, lunch and supper and she also eats bananas, crackers, green beans whole, peas whole, chicken chunks whole, Oatmeal, yogurt. So should I make the afternoon snack more food and use the apple juice bottle for her morning snack now?

edited to add: She doesnt like chunks of fresh fruit, only pureed. Also she doesnt like avacado.


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## goldingoddess (Jan 5, 2008)

It is my understanding that children weaned at 1 year need to be receiving some kind of milk or formula. It is 'unnatural' to wean so young, so some kind of substitute nutrition needs to be taking the place of breastmilk, I believe that the rule is, under a year old formula should be the substitute, but I'm sure you'll get better information then what I can offer.. I would consider talking to a ped. to get their opinion.


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## lotus.blossom (Mar 1, 2005)

Here is an article from kellymom about weaning and alternative milk. Although she mentions that cows milk is not necessary for breastmilk replacement, I would think that a baby that young will need some sort of very nutrient packed replacement. I'm sure you have your reasons for weaning, and aren't looking for support in that aspect, but honestly watered down applejuice isn't a great alternative. Its just empty calories and sugar.


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## KristyDi (Jun 5, 2007)

At that age you should be replacing your milk with either formula or another milk (before a year I'd personally choose formula) Babies that age aren't developed enough to be getting much nutrition from solids yet and I agree with pp about juice being basically sugar and water. Look at it this way, if you were to stop eating say dinner, what would be a good replacement? Not juice or crackers, you'd want something with equal or similar nutrition. I believe the AAP says that at a year a baby should be getting 75% of their nutrition from formula or breast milk so you can use that as a guide. I'm not sure of the % and a quick google didn't find the answer for me, but it's a high %, well above 50%. I'll look a bit more later and edit if I find it.


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## RoViMama (Nov 10, 2009)

What about a grain? Quinoa or oatmeal? Tofu? You could grind it and slowly thicken it. As long as she is getting a good AM and PM feeding, I might not replace it with formula but I'm not sure.
http://www.wholesomebabyfood.com/sol...ntholdbaby.htm
I love this website. Great ideas for snacks and appropriate meals for all babies.
It sounds like you are slowly weaning and she will be one by the time you are finished.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

we are in the same spot, my DS is also 11 mos, and we are weaning-- not by choice. We replacing nursing sessions with bottles of formula.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

Grain would not be an appropriate human milk substitute and neither would apple juice, whether watered down or full strength.

Before 12 mos, you must replace human milk with formula. I would even recommend supplying formula until up to 24 months, since babies are supposed to be nursed at least that long.

If you don't want to use, or can't afford, artifical formula, you may wish to try goat milk, with or without added supplements.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

The main issue is dietary fat. I would want a baby to be on some form of milk-- whether a milk, soy, or hypoallergenic formula, whole cow's milk, or goat's milk, or something with a similar nutritional profile-- at least until 2 years, and honestly, much longer would be best. If I was dead-set against milk, I'd consider other fat-rich foods like whole-milk yogurt, egg yolks, liver, good organic butter, extra virgin olive oil, avocado, and fatty fish.

Juice is not an appropriate replacement for breastmilk. I wouldn't give juice at all at this age, or if I did, I'd limit it to 4 ounces a day or less, just for fun. It has no fat, no protein, no vitamins and minerals other than C, and is loaded with sugars (natural ones, if you're using 100% juice, but it's still sugar.)

I also would limit starchy stuff like crackers, especially if they're not fully whole-grain. They replace the more nutrient-rich foods that kids need to grow optimally.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Most things I've read say that babies/toddlers need a full fat milk for two full years, so if breastmilk is being removed, it should be replaced with formula or cow's milk or goat's milk or the like.

-Angela


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## mrscompgeek (Nov 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotus.blossom* 
I'm sure you have your reasons for weaning, and aren't looking for support in that aspect, but honestly watered down applejuice isn't a great alternative. Its just empty calories and sugar.

Its pure apple juice, no added sugars.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RoViMama* 
It sounds like you are slowly weaning and she will be one by the time you are finished.

Yes she will be. She is 11 months now.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Llyra* 

Juice is not an appropriate replacement for breastmilk. I wouldn't give juice at all at this age, or if I did, I'd limit it to 4 ounces a day or less, just for fun. It has no fat, no protein, no vitamins and minerals other than C, and is loaded with sugars (natural ones, if you're using 100% juice, but it's still sugar.)

I also would limit starchy stuff like crackers, especially if they're not fully whole-grain. They replace the more nutrient-rich foods that kids need to grow optimally.

She only gets 2 oz of juice a day. And the crackers are homemade by me. Not store bought.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Most things I've read say that babies/toddlers need a full fat milk for two full years, so if breastmilk is being removed, it should be replaced with formula or cow's milk or goat's milk or the like.

-Angela

We dont drink cows milk here because honestly I dont think it is good for you. Not the kind you buy in the stores. Im sure some of you will argue this fact but thats my feelings about it.
I have goat milk available I just got contact with a farmer that will give me some to use.

Yes, I do have my reasons for weaning her and have talked with her Ped, and 2 of my LLL leaders and they all said I DO NOT Have to give her formula in replacement of it or cows milk. She is getting fruits and veggies and sometimes chicken at every meal and getting her grains at snack time.
I am just looking for something to replace it with.


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## mrscompgeek (Nov 15, 2007)

adding this from Kellymom.com

Why I dont think Cows milk is a good choice for us- - -
Cow's milk is more specific to a baby cow than a baby human. Cow's milk formula is based on cow's milk but has been engineered to be closer to human milk (still a ways off, but closer). Many infants still have problems with cow's milk formula (allergies, GI problems, etc.). Babies who are exposed to cow's milk before their first birthday are more likely to be anemic, have diarrhea or vomiting, and/or experience an allergic reaction (the proteins in milk are more numerous than those in other milk products, such as the yogurt). The excessive protein load in cow's milk can also overload a baby's kidneys. It is deficient in vitamins C, E, and copper. It is harder to digest as well, often causing intestinal blood loss. A number of studies have also indicated that early introduction of cow's milk may contribute to the development of Insulin-Dependent Diabetes Mellitus.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Moving to Life with a Babe. You might also want to post in the Nutrition forum.


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## mrscompgeek (Nov 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Moving to Life with a Babe. You might also want to post in the Nutrition forum.

Thanks!


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

I don't care why or that you're weaning. But a child that young needs either formula or some kind of milk. Some babies have problems with milk but you don't know that your baby will. Most do fine. I can't think of anything else that would provide the amount of calories and fats that a child this young needs to thrive. Certainly not crackers, homemade or otherwise.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

OP you are right to be concerned about giving cow milk to your human child. Cow milk is designed for calves. But your child is a mammal and therefore needs milk in infancy and early childhood. The primary food at this age needs to be milk, and if it's not milk produced by human breasts, it needs to be milk prduced by the breast of some animal. By not providing milk, from whatever species, the LOs brain will not be able to develop properly. I think it's pretty crappy that dr's and LLL leaders are giving you inaccurate information. Good luck finding a better-informed care provider!


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## lotus.blossom (Mar 1, 2005)

I'm curious about whether your Ped or LLL leader recommended anything to feed her with in replacement for breastmilk?

Another thought of mine is maybe juicing fresh veggies/fruits that way you are getting a lot of nutrients into her, rather than pasteurized empty juice. Perhaps adding some avocado or coconut butter or oil for fat, or even a protein powder (rice and pea? or goatmilk powder?) to make it into a smoothie.


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## mrscompgeek (Nov 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessedwithboys* 
OP you are right to be concerned about giving cow milk to your human child. Cow milk is designed for calves. But your child is a mammal and therefore needs milk in infancy and early childhood. The primary food at this age needs to be milk, and if it's not milk produced by human breasts, it needs to be milk prduced by the breast of some animal. By not providing milk, from whatever species, the LOs brain will not be able to develop properly. I think it's pretty crappy that dr's and LLL leaders are giving you inaccurate information. Good luck finding a better-informed care provider!

I beg your pardon but we love our care provider. She is very awesome.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
I don't care why or that you're weaning. But a child that young needs either formula or some kind of milk. Some babies have problems with milk but you don't know that your baby will. Most do fine. I can't think of anything else that would provide the amount of calories and fats that a child this young needs to thrive. Certainly not crackers, homemade or otherwise.

And if you both read my last post I wrote:
I have goat milk available I just got contact with a farmer that will give me some to use.


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## mrscompgeek (Nov 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotus.blossom* 
I'm curious about whether your Ped or LLL leader recommended anything to feed her with in replacement for breastmilk?

Another thought of mine is maybe juicing fresh veggies/fruits that way you are getting a lot of nutrients into her, rather than pasteurized empty juice. Perhaps adding some avocado or coconut butter or oil for fat, or even a protein powder (rice and pea? or goatmilk powder?) to make it into a smoothie.

Thats what I do, juice her fruits for juices.
My LLL gave me a few choices and my Ped told me what she thinks is acceptable and said she left it up to me as obviously I am a great parent considering my daughter is in perfect health.


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## braidmama (Aug 17, 2010)

Hey all,
I just wanted to give my input here! My son is 5 months old and unfortunately I have somewhat of a low supply (I've been working hard to bring it back up and luckily I;ve had some luck! Seems to be improving!).

Anyway, we do supplement for about 2 feedings a day (sometimes 1 and sometimes 3, depending on how much I am able to pump while at work). I didn't feel comfortable with any kind of commercial formula, personally. I just felt that I wanted him to have something real. I'm not saying this would work for everyone and I understand that for some babies formula does bcome necessary...just getting that out of the way. We give him local, organic goat's milk with added stuff. Floradix Children's vitamins and FloraBaby Probiotics. I also give him egg yolk every other day (not the whites! those are known to potentially be allergy-provoking!) mashed well and mixed with either breast milk or goat's milk, served warm. I give him the egg yolk because of the iron. Goat's milk doesn't contain any so I think this is important! I use only organic egss with dha and omega's.

I'm in no way a dr or anything but or pedi, who is very popular around these parts it seems, is fine with it as long as his diet is mostly breastmilk (it is). I feel like if I wasn't going to be nursing at all though I might use formula only because it really is packed with nutrients. However at 11 months it might not be necessary...I'm not sure.


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## laughingfox (Dec 13, 2005)

Personally, I'd replace breastmilk with formula for anyone under 18-24 months. There are soy and grain based options available, as well as organic options and goat-based options, and some people even choose to make their own (which has been the focus of many debates).
Formula may not be the most "natural" option available, but when weaning early, my personal opinion (since you asked) is that it's the best replacement option when breastmilk isn't available, until 18 months, at least.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrscompgeek* 
Its pure apple juice, no added sugars.


Well, just because it doesn't have added sugar, doesn't mean it isn't sugar. There's very little nutritional value in fruit juice. That said, I don't think a couple of oz of watered down juice a day is a big problem for a 1 year old. It only becomes a problem if it's replacing food that does pack a nutritional/caloric/fatty punch. So, I don't think it's a problem to replace former nursing sessions with different kind of snack, but that nutrition has to be made up in other places. If I had an under two-ish year old that wasn't breastfeeding, I would go with a milk based formula, preferably organic. Even toddlers that aren't picky and eat a varied diet tend to have nutritional gaps and since their bodies aren't made to be taking all of their nutrients from food, it's a very hard thing to accomplish. A formula of some sort helps fill in those gaps. Barring that, I would go with a full fat milk of some sort. If you have access to goat milk, especially if you can get organic goat milk, and if your daughter will drink it, that's probably the best choice for you if you won't use formula.


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## tzs (Aug 4, 2009)

i think somebody else already mentioned it but you just have to keep thinking to yourself: fats and proteins, fats and proteins.
i'm no expert or dr. but milks and formulas satisfy both these needs really easily.

so....if you want to skip those and focus on solids or even if you do end up using the goat's milk it's still good to keep in mind. fruits and veggies are great and essential but it's easy to get hung up on them and miss the fats and proteins. you said you do chicken. you can add fats easily by cooking or coating other foods in butter or olive oil. coconut milk is great....avocado....eggs....
i even coat dd's fruits like strawberries, blueberries in homemade balsamic just to get that extra kick of fats with the olive oil.

trust me, i know it's confusing. we just started daycare at 12 months now and i'm still not sure what i'm doing about those 2 daytime/nap liquid feedings. dd eats a good amount of solids...regular people food and for now we're doing formula but not quite sure how to proceed.


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## Abraisme (Mar 8, 2009)

My opinion is that you should replace breast-feeding with formula until at least 18-24mo. I do not believe that babies should get cows milk as a substitute (unless your baby has suddenly become a baby cow). Formula is for baby humans and they need it until they can eat an entire diet of solids. Good luck.

ETA: Dr. Mercola also has a recipe for an all natural homemade baby formula. You'd have to check his website, but you basically take raw cow or goat milk and add a bunch of ingredients.


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## OkiMom (Nov 21, 2007)

Like others if I was weaning my under 18 month old I would either give her formula (which my children personally will not drink) or some kind of milk. If they won't take either Ill make sure she has plenty of nutrient dense/fatty food. Juice and crackers aren't nutrient dense and don't make up for the fat in breastmilk.
I got pregnant with DD2 when DD1 was 14 months old, she got organic milk or soy milk depending on where I was and lots of whole foods (good fats, meats, tons of veggies etc). Around 2 I started her with vitamins (I know some people don't like vitamins on this board) because she became more picky and I was worried about her nutrition. She also tantum nursed so when my milk came in when she was 22 months she started nursing several times a day again.
I got pregnant with this baby when DD2 was around 18 months old. I still nurse her several times a day but my supply is pretty much dried up so I make sure she gets plenty of high nutrient/calorie food and plenty of good fat to make up for the fact she isn't getting breastmilk. She will probably also tantum nurse if she doesn't wean herself before this one is due in Feb.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I agree with formula until as close to 2 years as possible, if you are weaning. Whole cow's milk or goats milk would be my next choices, personally. I wouldn't replace nursing with food and juice, unless milk was also included in the daily diet. So, if you do go ahead and get an adequate supply of goat's milk from your source and your DD drinks it frequently - then I could see using finger foods or water in a cup at times during the day where she used to nurse.


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## Lauren31 (Feb 25, 2008)

In my opinion, juice and crackers should not replace wholesome breastmilk in a baby's diet. I agree with other posters who say that if you are weaning the baby you should look to formula first. If you refuse to go that route, I guess goat's milk would be the next best option.


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## mrscompgeek (Nov 15, 2007)

Thank you for all your answers.
I am weaning due to health issues with myself, low supply that keeps getting lower and my daughter bitting me while nursing more then eating. I understand that on this board child led weaning and nursing til they are 2 or so is the norm and I think thats great for those of you who can. All I ask for is you dont judge me for what I have to do for us. You may think I am dumb and have no idea what I am doing but I assure you I am very well educated and have read every baby book on the planet. I have a very natural minded mother and my ped is very AP parenting friendly. Thank you for you concerns but I assure you my daughter is in very good hands.
I really honestly am very against formula, I understand it might be a good choice but I use to babysit and I myself have seen time and time again what formula does to babies. I refuse to put my baby through that.
I do have goats milk I will replace the feedings with. What do you think of organic cows milk? I think my health food store has the horizons brand. Would that be healthier then whole cows milk in a pinch??
And just FYI- I am only replacing her feedings now with 2 oz of juice until I could get ahold of something else to replace it with. I did not intend to only give her juice!
Also one more question- How often a day should she get goats milk in a bottle? I was thinking when she wakes up and before bed? Is that enough for one day for her or do I need to add more? (of course Im meaning this schedule for once she is fully weaned. During the process of weaning I will transition her over and give her bottles of goats milk during her normal feeding times.)


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## bubbagirl (Jul 18, 2009)

Mrscompgeek just wanted to let you know how well you are handling the answers you are being given. Food is probably the one thing people feel the most passionate about and if you tell people that you don't agree with what they are doing it can get pretty ugly.

That being said, I think what people are saying is the fat/protein needs to be addressed. Cows milk has so much more protein than human milk because its meant to raise cows not humans (you know this) so good for you on findimg fresh goat milk if you want to substitute with it.

Have you considered coconut water? Fresh from coconuts would be best but there are some good packaged brands you could find online or at a hfs. It has a lot of the same properties as mamas milk.

Also, about the juice - juicing a few nonsweet fruits and root veggies with celery is so nutritious. I agree store bought juice is void of most nutrition once they heat it up. This could be a good addition . Also if she is ok with beans, a hummus might help fill a protein/fat meal.


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

My dd stalled in growth when I was pregnant with ds. Because she was only 14 months old and I wasn't sure about my supply, we supplemented her diet with goat's milk and smoothies made with varying combinations of almond butter, avocado, banana (for sweetness), and full-fat coconut milk. Turns out my supply was fine, she just grows in plateaus and leaps. But after doing a lot of research and checking in with the various care providers in our lives, I felt good about those additions to her diet.


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## mrscompgeek (Nov 15, 2007)

Thank you for that!! I appreciate it. Like I said, I totally understand that not every family is the same thus not every family parents the same way. Not even every child is the same! This is my choice and all I ask is not to be judged.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tzs* 
i think somebody else already mentioned it but you just have to keep thinking to yourself: fats and proteins, fats and proteins.
i'm no expert or dr. but milks and formulas satisfy both these needs really easily.

so....if you want to skip those and focus on solids or even if you do end up using the goat's milk it's still good to keep in mind. fruits and veggies are great and essential but it's easy to get hung up on them and miss the fats and proteins. you said you do chicken. you can add fats easily by cooking or coating other foods in butter or olive oil. coconut milk is great....avocado....eggs....
i even coat dd's fruits like strawberries, blueberries in homemade balsamic just to get that extra kick of fats with the olive oil.

trust me, i know it's confusing. we just started daycare at 12 months now and i'm still not sure what i'm doing about those 2 daytime/nap liquid feedings. dd eats a good amount of solids...regular people food and for now we're doing formula but not quite sure how to proceed.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Abraisme* 
My opinion is that you should replace breast-feeding with formula until at least 18-24mo. I do not believe that babies should get cows milk as a substitute (unless your baby has suddenly become a baby cow). Formula is for baby humans and they need it until they can eat an entire diet of solids. Good luck.

ETA: Dr. Mercola also has a recipe for an all natural homemade baby formula. You'd have to check his website, but you basically take raw cow or goat milk and add a bunch of ingredients.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbagirl* 
Mrscompgeek just wanted to let you know how well you are handling the answers you are being given. Food is probably the one thing people feel the most passionate about and if you tell people that you don't agree with what they are doing it can get pretty ugly.

That being said, I think what people are saying is the fat/protein needs to be addressed. Cows milk has so much more protein than human milk because its meant to raise cows not humans (you know this) so good for you on findimg fresh goat milk if you want to substitute with it.

Have you considered coconut water? Fresh from coconuts would be best but there are some good packaged brands you could find online or at a hfs. It has a lot of the same properties as mamas milk.

Also, about the juice - juicing a few nonsweet fruits and root veggies with celery is so nutritious. I agree store bought juice is void of most nutrition once they heat it up. This could be a good addition . Also if she is ok with beans, a hummus might help fill a protein/fat meal.


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

I happened to be reading this this morning and thought maybe it'd be useful to you... http://www.babygooroo.com/index.php/...%E2%80%99s-ok/


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

Bone broth can make an excellent replacement for dairy if need be. It's got fat and very bioavailable minerals. That said if you cannot continue another 6-12 months the goat's milk will be an excellent second choice. I don't child-led wean but my minimum time would line up with the WHO min of 2 years personally, I'm too lazy to deal with dietary milk replacements for my kids.

The best bone broth is made by simmering any meat bones with water and a little acid (lemon juice or vinegar) for anything from 1-48 hours.


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## J. Jones (Jan 28, 2007)

Did I miss someone suggesting yogurt?

I see that's on your list of foods you give her...you could try watering it down a little, or put it in a sippy cup, or just feed it to her.

YOGURT is great!

My son ate tons of it while he weaned!


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

I would definitely go with the goat's milk if you can get it. My DS has a sensitivity to cow's and goat's milk, and while I planned to nurse him for at least 2 years (he is still nursing, but I don't have any milk) I got pregnant when he was 18 months old and my milk dried up. I started giving him Coconut Milk, as well as making sure he got lots of protien and fat from solids. I think if you feed her a well-balanced diet of solids and let her drink Coconut/Goat's/Cow's milk she will be just fine. How do you feel about yogurt and cheese? I don't know how you feel about this, but I also give my DS a multi-vitamen and a DHA supplement.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *J. Jones* 
Did I miss someone suggesting yogurt?

I see that's on your list of foods you give her...you could try watering it down a little, or put it in a sippy cup, or just feed it to her.

YOGURT is great!

My son ate tons of it while he weaned!

If you are using yogurt, you may want to be sure it's plain, unsweetened yogurt, and full-fat.


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## tzs (Aug 4, 2009)

hey compgeek..i can't speak for everybody here but i think it's pretty obvious you're doing great and a concerned, loving mother. just wanted to throw that out there because you seem a little defensive which i totally get b/c this place can be brutal when it comes to BFing talk.

anyway, i like the watered down yogurt idea....think i'm gonna try it for myself. i also want to eliminate the 2 formula daytime feedings we get when she's at daycare but so far she doesn't want to have anything to do with cow's milk (and i don't blame her, i never liked the stuff)
i can only get low-fat b/c of kosher issues. i know full-fat is preferable but what;s the scoop on skim?


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## redvlagrl (Dec 2, 2009)

I am also a formula hater. Though if I did need to wean I would do it until about 18 mths.

No one has suggested that you get donated breastmilk. Try milkshare.org. I donated some of mine with DD. You might find someone who would pump 2x a day for you. People have it shipped cross country.

Otherwise your best bet would be raw goat milk. Organic *unhomogenized* full fat cow's milk wouls be available from your hfs and would be a good choice too.

Incidentally - organic milk comes in whole and various fat contents. Check carefully. No one is suggesting you feed your child conventional milk.

If I was doing cocnut milk as a sub I would make it myself from fresh coconuts, not the canned stuff (BPA).


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

If you want to wean at this age then formula is the recommended replacement. She still needs a nutritious milk in her life if you aren't nursing. She needs fat and protein and fluid and milk of some type is the best way to get it into her. A diet of solid food and water just isn't adequate nutrition for a young toddler.

11m is really too early for straight cow's or goats milk, which you say you want to avoid anyway. (And I agree that it isn't a particularly good choice anyway. Cow's milk is a good option for baby's cows.) I am not a formula advocate but it *is* more nutritionally complete than cow's milk for a young toddler. Yogurt or kefir are also good choices from a nutrition standpoint but I would count them as good solid foods, not as a bm or formula replacement.

If you are unwilling to do formula or cow's milk than you might consider coconut milk. I keep seeing it mentioned. Goat's milk is only marginally better tolerated than cow's milk and I have the sickliest cousin ever who was raised on "homemade" raw goat's milk formula.

Apple juice is not a source of nutrition. It is merely fluid and empty sugar.

I am editing my post to include the following, because I thought it might be helpful. Everyone in my family nurses but most of them do in a traditional American fashion, i.e. they tend to wean onto cow's milk (or not) after nursing on demand around 14m. This is really common in the US and all of these kids (literally, 35+ kids in my family) are healthy and great. Most of the moms are comfortable at weaning at that point and some of them serve cow's milk and some don't. Most of the peds don't care either way.

I don't know your personal reason for weaning at this point but if you can hang on a few months get to around 14m you can really avoid some of the issues all together. Our family LC (helps pretty much everyone to me) thinks that getting over that hump is the biggest one. Some of the kids become big cow's milk drinkers and many do not. None of the peds care. Just an observation. Big difference between 11m and 14m.


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## redvlagrl (Dec 2, 2009)

I wanted to add something - the importance of a high calorie 'milk' at this age is partially because their little stomachs are so small that they can't take in much so need a very caliric/nutrient dense food. crackers, juice, even chicken isn't are nutrient rich as breastmilk.

excuse typos, baby in arms


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *redvlagrl* 

If I was doing cocnut milk as a sub I would make it myself from fresh coconuts, not the canned stuff (BPA).

we use so delicious brand coconut milk which comes in cardboard (?) half gallon containers.. out of the refridgerated organic section (no bpa). We use the original which has a little sugar added, but they have a no sugar version, as well as a vanilla version.


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## lkmiscnet (Jan 12, 2009)

Here's a great link from Dr. Sears (a well known pediatrician) on a comparison of cow's milk and goat's milk. You need to be sure to supplement with B12 and folic acid on goat's milk.

http://www.parenting.com/article/Bab...-of-Goats-Milk

While apple juice has no "added sugar" it still contains an abundance of natural sugar, fructose, which has the same impact on the body's insulin levels as if it were loaded with added sugar.

Apple juice has as much sugar as a coca cola. Frightening!

This is another good website on sugar and drinks.

http://www.hookedonjuice.com/

You can confirm the nutrient information indepently on company websites (since brand names are listed) or with a google search.

Best of luck to you.


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## lazzybee (May 21, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lkmiscnet* 
Here's a great link from Dr. Sears (a well known pediatrician) on a comparison of cow's milk and goat's milk. You need to be sure to supplement with B12 and folic acid on goat's milk.

http://www.parenting.com/article/Bab...-of-Goats-Milk

While apple juice has no "added sugar" it still contains an abundance of natural sugar, fructose, which has the same impact on the body's insulin levels as if it were loaded with added sugar.

Apple juice has as much sugar as a coca cola. Frightening!

This is another good website on sugar and drinks.

http://www.hookedonjuice.com/

You can confirm the information on other websites too with a google search.

Best of luck to you.

hookedonjuice suggests the following as an alternative to juice:
"Diet soda! Certainly better than swigging fruit juice or regular soda pop all day long."

Uhh, no thanks!
The OP stated that she is juicing the apples, correct? So it's not quite empty calories. Sugar, yes, but it's not pasteurized and fortified store-bought juice. But, of course, it's still not a replacement for milk, as she knows.


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## boobs4milk (Jun 25, 2006)

shannon, just be sure you get whole milk. and if you are using raw milk, you might want to look at scalding it while she's still so young? i don't know much about raw milk, but i've had friends give their young ones raw milk and they scalded it. the fats in milk are vital to brain development.

i know you said you are going to wean due to health reasons for you and i wanted to let you know that most meds are safe while bf, especially since the babies are almost 1. i've just started zoloft for PPD and i feel absolutely comfortable that she's fine with it. millie is doing an insane amount of biting and we've had to stop nursing several times a day and put her on the floor until i regain my composure. i've been a bleeding mess lately! the best thing is redirection and coming back to nursing after she's settled down. she just popped her 5th tooth.

i really wish you'd reconsider weaning as breastfeeding is the best nutrition for her and you wouldn't have to worry about giving her another milk once she's about 2 years old. if i can help you in any way, please PM me or contact me via the FB group.








s!!!


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## lalemma (Apr 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tzs* 
i can only get low-fat b/c of kosher issues. i know full-fat is preferable but what;s the scoop on skim?

Total sidebar, but yogurt is really easy to make yourself in your crockpot - you can use whatever full-fat milk you want, plus a few tablespoons of starter that could come from any yogurt with live cultures. I mean, REALLY easy. I wouldn't attempt it if it were fussy, but it's a really simple process. Might be a workaround for you?


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrscompgeek* 
Thank you for all your answers.
I am weaning due to health issues with myself, low supply that keeps getting lower and my daughter bitting me while nursing more then eating. I understand that on this board child led weaning and nursing til they are 2 or so is the norm and I think thats great for those of you who can. All I ask for is you dont judge me for what I have to do for us. You may think I am dumb and have no idea what I am doing but I assure you I am very well educated and have read every baby book on the planet. I have a very natural minded mother and my ped is very AP parenting friendly. Thank you for you concerns but I assure you my daughter is in very good hands.

_I don't think anyone is judging you or thinks you are dumb. I haven't heard that tone in any of the replies. And it's obvious how much you care about your dd, that's why you're here asking questions. If I may say this...I sense a little bit of regret in your tone. You initially come across as defensive, and I wonder if it is really grief over the idea of weaning. I know right now you are (rightfully) focused on making the transition safe and easy for your LO. Please make sure that you are also taking the time to make sure YOU are healthy and happy as well._

I really honestly am very against formula, I understand it might be a good choice but I use to babysit and I myself have seen time and time again what formula does to babies. I refuse to put my baby through that.
_
You won't find a bigger formula-hater than me, but please remember that your LO is not a tiny newborn with an un-fully-cultivated gut. You've done a wonderful job of giving her the best start, so it's likely that she won't have the same issues with formula as many newborns do._

I do have goats milk I will replace the feedings with. What do you think of organic cows milk? I think my health food store has the horizons brand. Would that be healthier then whole cows milk in a pinch??

_You might want to do some research into Horizon. I've learned some things about that brand here that have led me to avoid it. If you want to use store-bought organic milk, Organic Valley is supposed to use milk from pastured cows. Regardless of whether you use organic or conventional, raw or pasteurized, you will want to make sure the milk is whole, meaning full-fat._

And just FYI- I am only replacing her feedings now with 2 oz of juice until I could get ahold of something else to replace it with. I did not intend to only give her juice!
Also one more question- How often a day should she get goats milk in a bottle? I was thinking when she wakes up and before bed? Is that enough for one day for her or do I need to add more? (of course Im meaning this schedule for once she is fully weaned. During the process of weaning I will transition her over and give her bottles of goats milk during her normal feeding times.)

_I would say to feed on demand. Remember, you are offering a mama's milk replacement, and a 1yo should be able to nurse on demand, to ensure that the bulk of the child's nutrition is coming from milk. When bf'ing, most mamas will set limits beginning around 18mos or so, such as "mama will not nurse you while she is going potty", or "mama will nurse you as soon as we check out our library books and get outside under the shade tree". But if you are bottle-feeding, you can very easily hand over a bottle, whereas it's harder to nurse a toddler while swiping your debit card, just for the fact that a child that age is heavier than an infant and harder to fit laying down in a sling. So, yeah, I would think if you are talking about a point in time just a month or two ahead, I would not think that just because she is no longer taking milk from your breast, it means she is necessarily ready to only have human milk replacer 2x/day._


...


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## beckybird (Mar 29, 2009)

Formula, cow's milk----bah!! I'm with you Mrscompgeek! Neither for my baby, thanks.

There is a theory that homogenized milk is harmful to people. I don't know if it's true or not, but it does make sense to me. Look up the argument if you are unsure, then choose which side you're on. Also, there's the idea that pasteurization destroys the milk enzymes and makes it harder to digest.
http://wewantorganicfood.com/2008/01...ial-nutrients/
Seems like cow's milk is just not ideal. If you HAVE to use cow's milk for any reason, please make sure it's organic.

You know what? I think you should look into goat's milk. But do what you feel is right, and don't let anybody upset you over it


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## Friday13th (Jun 13, 2006)

I would also look into raw cow's milk or goat's milk (raw if possible). 1 year olds definitely still need the fats from milk and I'd give it whenever you'd nurse. DS was still nursing every 2 or 3 hours at one. And I'd try to push some good fats and proteins in her solids, yogurt, cottage cheese, avocado, nut butters, coconut oil, etc.


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## redvlagrl (Dec 2, 2009)

I would just double check the ingredients. The only ingredients should be coconut and water


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## Mrsboyko (Nov 13, 2007)

My kids are allergic to dairy and soy, like it looks like we punched them in the eyes if they get any. Yes, I BF'ed them for longer than a year (23 months for DD and 17 for DS) but they still need something for the fats. I saw what happened to DD when she stopped BF'ing full time and went 1/2 BM and 1/2 rice milk. Her weight practically stagnated for a year, she stopped growing. We switched her to Hemp milk at 2 (because I found a store that carried it) and she gained 4 lbs in a month, then another 8 in that year. She went from 19.5 lbs at 12 months, to 21 lbs at 2 years, to 33 at 3 y/o.

Your kid is probably the picture of health right now, but if she is not getting the fats her little brain needs, it will start to show. Maybe it will take 6 months to a year, but it will happen. I did it, and I kick myself for it every day.

We tried the coconut milk as well and it constipated my son something horrible.


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## laughingfox (Dec 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
we use so delicious brand coconut milk which comes in cardboard (?) half gallon containers.. out of the refridgerated organic section (no bpa). We use the original which has a little sugar added, but they have a no sugar version, as well as a vanilla version.

The cardboard containers have an internal plastic coating to prevent liquids from seeping through, and that lining might very well contain BPA (unless they specify that they're BPA free). Glass is pretty much the only type of container I know of that's BPA-free across the board.


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## globe-trotter (Feb 11, 2009)

i did a quick read of the replies and didn't see it ..... how about donated BreastMilk?


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## weliveintheforest (Sep 3, 2005)

raw goats milk sounds like a really good option. I'm glad you have it available!


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## cristeen (Jan 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
we use so delicious brand coconut milk which comes in cardboard (?) half gallon containers.. out of the refridgerated organic section (no bpa). We use the original which has a little sugar added, but they have a no sugar version, as well as a vanilla version.

The stuff in the Refrigerated section is a very watered down version. When ive fed my guy coconut milk, ive used the canned and watered it down a bit. I wouldnt do that FT though. For FT, it would need some additional ingredients.

If you're not comfortable w dairy, i would recommend looking up the WAPF formula recipes. There is one that is broth based. I fed myDS that from about 3 wks until we got donor milk about a week and a half later. For an older child who is eating solids, id be okay with dropping a few of the ingredients, but its a really good place to start.

And chances are you wont be able to find donor milk unless you know someone. It is in such short supply and most donors want to donate to a younger babe in need, none of which is your situation. Once my guy was 6 mos old, i couldnt get any new donors. Our only source of milk now are donors we already had a relationship with.

My guy is almost a year and im contemplating taking him off formula (hed still get some BM until the freezer is empty, but the formula hes been on the last 5 mos just added CS to their ingredients and the only other orgsnic i can find hes not tolerating very well). I've been looking for a local organic raw milk source - one that comes from jersey cows is my prefrence, since it has a higher fat content and fat truly is important. I figure ill fortify it a la the WAPF formula recipe until hes at least 18 mos.

HTH


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cristeen* 
The stuff in the Refrigerated section is a very watered down version. When ive fed my guy coconut milk, ive used the canned and watered it down a bit. I wouldnt do that FT though. For FT, it would need some additional ingredients.


Wanted to clarify, we don't use it for full-time breastmilk replacement. I didn't lose my milk completely until he was about 20 months old, and he was eating tons of solids, and drinking about 8-10 oz of the Coconut Milk. Not a picky eater, and eats a wide variety of whatever I offer. I also give him a mulit-vitamen and DHA supplement. If he was 12-18 months or not eating solids, I would have given him formula or something equivalent.


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## star*mora (Sep 3, 2007)

we're a no animal milk home here so if you continue weaning i'd suggest some of the things we've done as my 3.5yr old started self weaning

coconut milk
almond milk
rice milk

i use any of the above as a base for a smoothie and make about a litre (so about a us quart) at a time which lasts 2-3 days.

i use a cup to a cup and a half of the milk above and i add 1/2 avocado, a few tbsp of sweet potato if i have it handy, a banana or another sweet fruit like pineapple or mango, a bit of water to blend to desired thickness, and a few berries. loaded with calories and nutrients. also often add powdered acidophilus too particularly in the winter. when it was clear ds1 wasn't interested in tandem nursing (would only take mama's milk in a cup after his brother was born - until 32 months), the smoothie took on more importance.


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## cristeen (Jan 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *star*mora* 
we're a no animal milk home here so if you continue weaning i'd suggest some of the things we've done as my 3.5yr old started self weaning

coconut milk
almond milk
rice milk

rice milk is not suitable for a baby under a year. It has no fat, almost no protein, you might as well just stick with watered down apple juice. Not to even mention the arsenic that has been found in it. And i'd be hesitant to rely solely on almond milk without a fair bit of research.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Whatever you go with, you're going to want to do bottle nursing for at least one bottle a day.


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## diana_of_the_dunes (Dec 7, 2008)

Here's the link on WAPF for goat's milk formula: http://www.realmilk.com/formularecipes.html#vgmf

Kudos to you for trying so hard to do what's best for your baby. I had low supply and had to wean from the breast, so I can empathize. I ended up using organic formula for now, but will transition to raw grass-fed cow's milk over the next year. I just started in a cow share program, so I may experiment with making our own "formula" as well. I agree that store-bought milks are probably not the best thing for you or your child... So many nutrients are lost in the processing, not to mention nutrients that were never there at all because most commercial cows are not eating their natural diet.

Good luck







s


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cristeen* 
rice milk is not suitable for a baby under a year. It has no fat, almost no protein, you might as well just stick with watered down apple juice. Not to even mention the arsenic that has been found in it. And i'd be hesitant to rely solely on almond milk without a fair bit of research.

I wouldn't give a child under two almond milk.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeckyBird* 
Formula, cow's milk----bah!! I'm with you Mrscompgeek! Neither for my baby, thanks.

You know what? _I think you should look into goat's milk._

Slightly OT here:

Why are people saying "Eww, no formula or cow's milk, and cow's milk is for calves but let's drink goat's milk instead."

(This is a serious question, not a snotty one!)


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## lalemma (Apr 21, 2009)

Some people think that goat's milk is more digestible or closer to human milk than cow's milk - often the reason given is that the fats and proteins in goat's milk are easier to digest. Some people think that goat's milk is less allergenic than cow's milk.

I find this article somewhat poorly-written, but here is Dr. Sears on the topic: http://askdrsears.com/html/3/t032400.asp

I personally am not anti-animal milk, and consider dairy to be delicious.


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## Plummeting (Dec 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrscompgeek* 
My LLL gave me a few choices and my Ped told me what she thinks is acceptable and said she left it up to me as obviously I am a great parent considering my daughter is in perfect health.

Personally, I'd choose your words more carefully (sensitively) next time, if I were you. Your child's perfect health has a lot more to do with good luck than your great parenting. If you had a sick kid, you'd likely agree.

Babies under one year old need a breastmilk substitute. Doctors say all kinds of things that don't make sense, no matter how much you like them. I like my GP, but he insists that a one month course of Sudafed wouldn't hurt my milk supply.


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## beckybird (Mar 29, 2009)

Quick note about Almond milk.....

My son is 7 years old, with no known allergies. I let him have some almond milk in cereal, and he broke out in hives. I tried giving him a little more a few weeks later, to see if the hives did indeed come from the almond milk. Sure enough, he started getting itchy. I don't know what it is about the almond milk, because he can eat whole almonds just fine. But for a young baby, I would personally stay away from almond milk.


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## october (Sep 24, 2009)

I'm a little surprised at some the responses' tone, but I think what I'm gathering is that no one here would know much about what else to replace it with! Just an observation.


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

I think this topic has been addressed and the OP has a lot of good information. I think we are starting to get into splitting hairs so I'm going to close this to more replies







!

Thanks mamas!


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