# Is TV Evil???



## Bisou (Dec 11, 2006)

I am a single mom of a VERY active, intense 19-month-old boy. I have always been pretty anti-TV (including videos, children's movies, Baby Einstein, etc) since everything I have read says, "No TV until at least two," and my pediatrician agrees with this also. I have been told that TV viewing in young children can cause changes to a child's brain development, rewiring their neural pathways.

Until my son was about 16-17 months old, I never ever let him see the TV at all, even for a second. A majority of my friends (with very different parenting styles) advocated having their kids sit in front of Baby Einstein videos for at least 30-60 minutes a day so they could have a break, do dishes, or whatever, while keeping an eye on their kids, of course. They thought Baby Einstein videos were great for their kids also--educational, stimulating, and the like.

I didn't agree with this at all, especially since I did some research and found that studies have shown a link between TV viewing and ADD/ADHD. One study said that for each hour of TV a child watches daily, his/her risk of ADD/ADHD goes up 10%. I have also read, however, that these studies were found to be flawed and that subsequent studies showed no correlation between TV watching and learning disorders.

As my son has gotten a bit older, he has also become wilder, crazier, temper-tantrumier







, and generally more difficult to deal with at times. One day after an evening of no sleep, I laid on the couch with him, threw a blanket on us, and put on Sesame Street. He was mezmerized, of course, and laid there so calmly, sweetly cuddling with me, rubbing and patting my arm, and being such a cuddle bug. I felt a bit guilty about my zombie baby, but loved having him cuddle there with me so calmly, and I got a break. Finally, some rest! It was like heaven.

I thought, well, it's not that bad. It's Sesame Street. It's public access TV; there are no commercials. He's not being brainwashed into wanting to eat McDonald's. There's no violence. I am watching everything with him. There's nothing scary. The programs are even PC, showing people of all races and abilities, and people doing non-gender-typical activities.

Since then, I have fallen into the bad habit of popping on the TV whenever I have an exhausting night of no sleep, which has been frequent lately as I often stay up late to work grading papers. (I am a part-time college teacher.) Sometimes he watches two hours a day. I feel guilty. I never wanted to fall into this trap, but it's so easy (and calms him down so much) that I see why people do this. I don't want it to become a habit, and I don't want to get too lazy, but I am so exhausted.

*Is this terrible?* What do you all think? Should he be watching no TV, in your opinion? What do you do for your kids? Does anyone know anything else about other research? I am so conflicted about this. I also wonder about the not-until-two prohibition, like the day he turns two it will magically be ok and have no effect on him. I suppose that's just a guideline, but I am just really confused and conflicted.

Unfortunately, my parents (whom we live with) have seen this as somewhat of a license to turn the TV on themselves whenever they want, and they are NOT turning on children's TV. This is a whole different issue, but related I guess since they think it's ok now that I am letting him watch some TV. They are also doing this when I am at work, so I have no control over it. I keep telling them I don't want ANY regular TV on when he's around, and very limited kids TV, but they haven't been listening to me at all. (We have a terrible relationship anyway. Again, another issue.)

Help! I need advice on this TV issue. I am feeling guilty.









--Holly


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

We never watch television, but a very rare dvd is okay. Most of our dvd's are pow wow dvd's. The children dance along and practice for when we return to the pow wow trail.
Every once in a while, we get a Scooby-Doo video or children's video's that have been recommended here on MDC, like Finding Nemo.

Then again, my children are older.


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## Bisou (Dec 11, 2006)

Hi Mama in the Boonies! Actually, that could be my screen name too, as I am in the boonies myself on 6 1/2 acres, way out in the woods. Thanks for your reply. Do you not watch TV yourself either? I wish I were more disciplined with that, but my job is so intellectual and mentally demanding that I get sucked into the mind-numbing effect that TV provides (once my son is in bed anyway). I don't want to harm him by getting too lax, however.


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## woo27ks (Jan 15, 2003)

We don't do TV at our house either - we'll rent a movie or get a National Geographic at the library.

When x and his wife moved to a new house and my kids each got a tv in their own room, I became even more adamant that there was no tv at our house. I think I might be more relaxed if there was more balance between the two houses.

I think everything in moderation. I don't think TV is evil. I think there are better things to do. I also think all of the marketing is wrong but can provide opportunity for conversation.

I don't like to use TV as a way to manage my children either. I'm a pretty scheduled person and so we have a routine that just doesn't involve tv.

Can you have a talk with your family about the kind of tv that they are watching in front of the kids? I can understand how this is upsetting.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bisou* 
Do you not watch TV yourself either?

No. Our television has no antenna and no cable. It's basically just a monitor for the dvd player.
I grew up without a tv, not even for movies. On the rare occasions we went to the movies it was at the drive-in or the dollar show.
I did know what tv was, as all but one of my friends watched it. Those who watched it were not as fun, as they just wanted to sit and watch it and not interact.
My friend who was also tv-free, is still my best friend. We did everything from going to the library to volunteering together.


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## lanamommyphd07 (Feb 14, 2007)

you could freecycle the TV and then be able to stumble upon other things that are relaxing and calming for you both?? Play in the bath until pruney while momma reads?


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## trinity6232000 (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bisou* 
*Is this terrible?* What do you all think? Should he be watching no TV, in your opinion? What do you do for your kids? Does anyone know anything else about other research? I am so conflicted about this. I also wonder about the not-until-two prohibition, like the day he turns two it will magically be ok and have no effect on him. I suppose that's just a guideline, but I am just really confused and conflicted.

I'm not sure what to do about the parents putting the tv on all the time dilemma. Until my Mom's death she had the tv on 24/7, it was like that my whole life. My dd learned quickly to tune out the tv, especially since it was nothing that would interest her anyhow. We we're in that room constantly so I didn't see making a battle out of it.

I feel bad that your putting so much pressure on yourself. I agree that kids before age 2 shouldn't be parked in front of a tv. I do think it's a guideline, and I still regulate tv viewing for my 6yo.

Before I was a Mom I had so many rules for my future children. I was going to be the perfect Mom. As a single Mom, I think we're spread pretty thin. Sometimes we need a small break, and that's hard to come by. If you use the tv a couple times a week to catch a break I really don't think you are damaging your child. Actually I think the opposite, that you can be a better parent giving yourself a break.

Your child is going to do well, because you care so much, and not as much because you never turned on a tv.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

I grew up without tv and we don't have one, for all the developmental reasons you mention, plus I think most of the stuff on there (even PBS) is dumbed down and tied in to commerce, yada-yada. And also because, as you have found, once you turn it on, it's a slippery slope. One that I would have a very hard time not sliding down.

That said...I am not a single mother, and my hat is off to anyone who is one. And when you've got sleep deprivation on top of that? Plus a wild and crazy kid?

Mama, do what you have to do. You need a break now, and you can always cut the tv off later when your kid has got through the wild phase.


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## woo27ks (Jan 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lanamommyphd07* 
Play in the bath until pruney while momma reads?


My dd will play in the tub for 2 hours at a time. I've never seen such pruney feet.


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## mamagoose (Nov 9, 2004)

Mama, I hear you. My ds is 22 mos, and my h and I have been separated for over a year. I too have resorted to letting ds watch more tv than I thought I would. Actually, it's not tv, it's Sesame Street dvds, or select other DVDs (Finding Nemo, Toy Story, Charlotte's Webb). I don't let him watch regular tv because I don't want him exposed to commercials or to adult tv content. I let him watch 30 minutes per day, sometimes 60 minutes. I just can't do it all - I WOH full time (wish I didn't have to, but that's the way it is right now) and he's with me full time on the evenings and weekends. I need a breather and letting him watch these dvds while I fix dinner or take a shower (I have a small apt and can see him and the tv from my bathtub) or clean the catbox or whatever makes life a bit easier and me less grumpy and frazzled.

I try not to feel too guilty about this. He enjoys the shows and does seem to get something from them, in particular he says his a-b-c's along with the Sesame Street characters. I just limit the amount of time and whenver possible, even if I'm in the kitchen doing whatever, I try to talk to him about what we're watching.

In an ideal world, I'd have oodles of energy and time and his dad would be at home with us to help out and he'd never watch anything, but this is not the case. I just try to keep it balanced and do my best.


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## MissLotus (Nov 2, 2005)

Like with every other issue, it all depends on the child! And specifically with TV, it depends on what you're exposing him to (and I realize that with your parents, you don't have control over that part of things). But I do not think TV is evil. Kids want to relax and be entertained at times, just like adults do.

My son is 5 now, and I probably let him watch too much TV when he was your child's age. Not junk TV - I too kept on on PBS, and educational videos about animals and construction and trains, etc. But I know I felt guilty at times....yet that was the only time he would be calm and relax for two seconds, as opposed to working himself into a frenzy. And you know what...he is fine now! As in, he's intellectually curious...he's smart, he loves to read and spell already. He still loves his videos and his PBS shows. But he also loves his books, his games....I think as long as your child is also getting exposure to OTHER things that stimulate him, then TV sometimes is okay. I mean, it's out there. So for me, I'm trying to steer my son towards choosing better-quality shows.....and watching things like Mr. Rogers (who I think is wonderful) never hurt any child!

One more thing - I have a friend whose son is the same age. She allows him no TV at all....which I've never really thought twice about - I respect her a lot. But I do know that her son is OBSESSED with TV whenever he leaves home! When he comes here, he always wants to watch it! (I respect his Mom's decision, so I steer to them to play other things). But I can't help but notice what a big deal it is to him....he knows it's out there but has no access to it, so it's become very desirable to him. Whereas with my son, TV is totally last on the list because it's no big deal. Just an observation I made.


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## SuperMama (Jan 22, 2007)




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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I without TV am way more evil than TV could ever be. We use it a lot. She's watching right now.


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## Bisou (Dec 11, 2006)

Lana:
Unfortunately I can't get rid of the TV since I live in my parents' house and it's theirs. Even if I didn't ever watch TV and it was my place, I'd probably want to be able to watch movies once the little one was in bed.

Taking a bath is a good alternative activity though, as he loves the bath. I might have to try that.


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## Bisou (Dec 11, 2006)

Hi Janna:
Thanks for your perspective. I know I have the tendency to be really tough on myself, and it really irks me when I feel like I've let my son watch too much TV for the day, and then I go to work (I teach night classes) and I come home to find out that they've had him watching non-kid-friendly TV! ARGH.


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## Bisou (Dec 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamagoose* 
Mama, I hear you. My ds is 22 mos, and my h and I have been separated for over a year. I too have resorted to letting ds watch more tv than I thought I would. Actually, it's not tv, it's Sesame Street dvds, or select other DVDs (Finding Nemo, Toy Story, Charlotte's Webb). I don't let him watch regular tv because I don't want him exposed to commercials or to adult tv content. I let him watch 30 minutes per day, sometimes 60 minutes. I just can't do it all - I WOH full time (wish I didn't have to, but that's the way it is right now) and he's with me full time on the evenings and weekends. I need a breather and letting him watch these dvds while I fix dinner or take a shower (I have a small apt and can see him and the tv from my bathtub) or clean the catbox or whatever makes life a bit easier and me less grumpy and frazzled.

I try not to feel too guilty about this. He enjoys the shows and does seem to get something from them, in particular he says his a-b-c's along with the Sesame Street characters. I just limit the amount of time and whenver possible, even if I'm in the kitchen doing whatever, I try to talk to him about what we're watching.

In an ideal world, I'd have oodles of energy and time and his dad would be at home with us to help out and he'd never watch anything, but this is not the case. I just try to keep it balanced and do my best.

Yes, I have the same feeling. I was so exhausted and frustrated with his behavior a couple months ago that it was escalating into yelling, on my part, which I did NOT want to do. He was hitting and slapping me 10+ times per day, throwing books at my face, etc. It was tough to deal with and I didn't deal with it well. Putting Sesame Street on for a bit has calmed him down so much and we have such nice bonding time, but on the other hand, I don't want to have that part of our routine!

He actually screamed for the TV to be turned on this morning (Sat), and since my parents and I were all there, I figured he had enough entertainment with the three of us. I was going to go upstairs and work on some applications and leave him with my mom for an hour, and since he was having a fit, she wanted to turn on the TV. She said it should be part of his routine that he can expect: an hour of TV every morning, and then turn it off and that's it for the day. I disagreed; I don't want him feeling like he can watch it EVERY day. It's frustrating having to argue with them, but I guess if I were married/partnered, we could disagree on child rearing too, so it might be the same thing.

I do have high expectations of my mothering, and I think sometimes it can actually backfire for me because I don't allow myself any leeway, and then when it becomes too much I just lose it. I think having patience for my son and being kind to him is probably more important than whether or not he watches TV a bit.

But again, I am so conflicted. Even when saying that, I question whether I really believe that him watching a little TV is ok. UGH.

I am an academic by profession and overly analytical. A curse!







:


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## Bisou (Dec 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I without TV am way more evil than TV could ever be. We use it a lot. She's watching right now.









That is so funny! I feel that way too sometimes. It's probably better for my son to watch Sesame Street than have me get overwhelmed from fatigue and frustration and yell at him.

You all are making me feel much better. I know I watched Sesame Street and Mr Rogers as a kid, and I am a college English teacher with a pretty functional brain. I think I turned out fairly bright.









Then again, perhaps growing up *without* TV, I would've solved global warming, come up with a cure for cancer and HIV, and be a multi-millionaire. But I jest.









I know there are many mainstream parents (some of my friends among them) who have TV and movies on constantly. I visited a friend recently who had Star Wars playing on her HUGE big-screen TV for her two-year-old and newborn to watch. Star Wars? I don't think that's the best for a young child of that age.

Likewise I had a student who, much to my dismay, told me she had mounted a TV/VCR above her baby's crib that played, in her words, "on a constant loop" 24/7 (literally) to entertain the baby when he woke up so they didn't have to get up and tend to him. She told me this when I was surprised that her baby slept 12-14 hours and didn't get up until after 9:00 am. I wanted to know how she did it to see if she had any helpful hints for my son. After her explanation, I wanted to ream her out, but I didn't think it was appropriate as her teacher.

I think that the biggest danger comes from parents who use TV in place of any real interaction with their kids, kids who watch TV with no other activities (like outdoor play, play with friends, or creative and imagination-building activities like art and reading), and parents who allow their children to watch TV without supervision. When my son watches TV, I am always watching with him, and he only watches programs I have seen several times, and only shows without commercials.

This doesn't hold true for my parents, however, and I guess I will just have to keep working on them and trying to emphasize the importance of limiting the amount of TV he watches and that the type of programs he watches are the kind I want him watching.

If anyone has additional thoughts, please share!

Holly


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## faeriewisp (Mar 13, 2005)

In my opinion and according to my beliefs, I do think TV can be considered "evil." As a disclaimer, this statement is in no way a judgement against all you lovely mamas.









I find that my TV-free dd plays alone exceptionally well, compared to many other children. I think that since you are wanting to address your guilt here, you should ask yourself, "Does my child have the skills to play alone at times, which could give me the same kind of break that TV watching does?" IF so, and you get breaks at these times, don't feel guilty about the TV.

I would only worry (if I didn't think TV was "evil") if TV is the ONLY possible way for you to get a break. Independent, creative play is a natural activity for babies and children. If it isn't happening, it should be reintroduced and nurtured because it's a very important life skill.

IF your child plays alone at times and you can utilize this for a break and if you find yourself increasingly using the TV for more breaks, then I would worry that maybe you are a little too depleteled -- sleepwise, or nutritionally, or overscheduled, and some changes might be in order in the best interest of yourself and the family as a unit!


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

We're TV free here and rent a movie about once a month. When we're not renting a movie the TV is in storage in the basement.

Just another perspective on TV giving you down time. DS sounds like he was a lot like your son at your son's age - very active - he still is. But what I found over time ( we didn't have any TV before 2 and then a little here and there, increasing to an hour a day by about 3) is that DS was _harder_ to handle when TV was in his life than when we didn't have it. He was more aggressive, threw bigger tantrums, and sometimes just a downright emotional mess - and that was just with an hour to an hour and a half a day and on the public access kids programs. The trade off just wasn't worth it for just an hour a day of quiet (well, he never was a quiet watcher! Very active watcher) unsupervised time.

At 4.5 we talked to him about it and about what happened to our day after the TV was turned off (and he was always OK with turning it off), and how it felt in the house with so much discord (it really just ramped him up too much - overstimulated him) and as a family we decided it would be best if we killed TV in the house. There wasn't even a transition time for us. He agreed and we put it away and things have been so much better. And he became so great at solitary play that I know get lots of time to decompress. Now I know at your DS' age it's just not that easy - he has to be watched more than a child a bit older, but there are still other things he could be doing that would also allow you a bit of a break.

Not all kids respond to TV the same way, and your child may be very different than mine, but I just thought I would throw out another perspective. For some kids TV overtimulates them enough that their behaviour worsens, even if they calm down for the duration the TV is on.


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## faeriewisp (Mar 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicole lisa* 

Not all kids respond to TV the same way, and your child may be very different than mine, but I just thought I would throw out another perspective. For some kids TV overtimulates them enough that their behaviour worsens, even if they calm down for the duration the TV is on.

YES! My oldest dd watched tv or a video up until age 3. What first turned me on to exploring tv-free was when I noticed that bedtime was HORRIFIC when she watched something any time in the day after noon.


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## Crisstiana (Jan 18, 2007)

Thanks, all, for the good discussion and multiple viewpoints. This is a subject that I've thought a lot about, even before getting pregnant with my 5-month old twins.

I was raised in a home with several TVs, but we were not allowed to watch TV from Sunday night to Friday afternoon. My parents strongly pushed reading instead. I grew up with my nose in a book. But when I hit college, I had free cable TV in my dorm first semester and became a TV addict. (Worse, an MTV addict.







). Also, growing up, my siblings and I were glued to the TV any time my parents left the house. It was forbidden, so we were captivated by it to the point of watching absolutely anything we could (e.g., fishing programs, informercials). My husband's upbringing was more moderate with regard to TV.

I don't want my kids watching much TV, and I would hate for them to see most of what is out there. But I don't want it to become an object of fascination for them either. Somehow, we'll have to find a more measured way to allow them to see TV as what it can be (informative and entertaining), without making it so compelling or allowing them to dive head first into all the junk that's out there.

Thanks for information about the different approaches everyone is taking with regard to TV. Good thread!


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Chrisstiana,

I hear that every once and a while and I think it can happen. But I know more people (including myself and my siblings and many close friends) who grew up TV free and didn't go through a phase where when we were out of the house we had it on all the time, 24/7.

Again, I think it just depends on the personalities involved. When DS is over at a friend's house he gets annoyed by the TV as he'd rather be playing legos or playmobil or dressing up. My siblings and I were the same way and when we got to college what was more important to us was being out with people so we just hooked up with like-minded people and spent time heading out for brunch, coffee, beers, or a movie.

I think (but don't know) what made a difference for my siblings and I was the fact my parents were so involved with the outside world that when we were at friends' houses who didn't have parents that took them hiking, picnicing, caving, swimming at the hole, cross country skiing etc every day that wasn't a work or school day and instead let them watch TV we really realized we'd rather be out and about and that's stayed true.


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## catnip (Mar 25, 2002)

I'm of the opinion that commercial TV is pretty darned bad, and that adult TV is usually completely inappropriate for small kids. (Televised golf is pretty inoffensive-mostly car commercials, as are certain documentaries and music programs)

We have a television in our living room. I think it has been on twice in the last year, both times so that DH and some friends could watch a movie while DD and I were visiting family in another town.

We had a housemate for about six months (she moved out yesterday







) who watched TV constantly. I finally had to ask her to close the door to her room when the TV was on, since DD would wander in there, and I'm sorry, but "The Pacifier" is not a movie for small kids, no matter what she thinks. I finally bought a couple of Mr. Rogers DVDs to use a distractor when I had to pull dd out of there. Now that she has moved out, I will probably continue to let her watch them once in a while.

I'm of the opinion that carefully chosen children's videos in very limited amounts can be a useful tool, but an easy one to abuse. We limit to 30 minutes a week and chose Mr Rogers because of the gentle transitions and lack of merchandizing. My DH works a lot of overtime so that I can SAH, and I don't have family nearby to help with her, so once in a while, I'll put on a DVD so I can get dinner on the table by the time he gets home so that we're not up past midnight with evening chores and dishes.


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## JanB (Mar 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crisstiana* 

I was raised in a home with several TVs, but we were not allowed to watch TV from Sunday night to Friday afternoon. My parents strongly pushed reading instead. I grew up with my nose in a book. But when I hit college, I had free cable TV in my dorm first semester and became a TV addict. (Worse, an MTV addict.







). Also, growing up, my siblings and I were glued to the TV any time my parents left the house. It was forbidden, so we were captivated by it to the point of watching absolutely anything we could (e.g., fishing programs, informercials). My husband's upbringing was more moderate with regard to TV.


This in a nutshell is why my DH doesn't want us to ban TV completely. I frankly don't think I'd want to anyway, but his feeling is that he wants our kids to have some exposure to television so that when they do go off on their own, they have a lesser chance of spending their entire freshman year of college glued to 180 channels of digital cable TV, or whatever. I know from having read many other stories here on MDC and elsewhere that this is far from a guaranteed outcome of a no-TV upbringing, but I do think it's something to think about.

My kids do watch a certain amount of TV. We don't have cable, so it consists primarily of PBS kids' programming. Most days they watch half of Sesame Street (we get home from preschool in time to catch the last half), Mr. Rogers, and Between the Lions. I usually watch with them and we discuss what they're talking about on the shows. Then the TV goes off and stays off the rest of the day. (Most of the time. I am not perfect in this regard and my kids probably watch a lot more TV on average than many other parents on MDC.) We don't have crying/complaining/begging to watch TV on a regular basis, so I feel relatively confident that they are not addicted to it. On nice days, which sadly have been few and far between lately, we will often go outside in lieu of the afternoon PBS shows, and I rarely if ever hear complaints or comments about it.

I guess my overall feeling about TV is that it is not inherently evil. You can use it as a babysitter, which is not a good use of it, or you can selectively use it judiciously for education/entertainment. Sorry, but I can't consider television evil when my 5yo was able to internalize the concept of symmetry from an episode of children's programming. Could I have taught that to him myself? I don't know. Maybe. It probably wouldn't have occurred to me. So TV can have its place. I think that overuse of TV can be problematic, but it is not "evil" in and of itself.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

Well, as someone who WORKS in the TV industry, I feel qualified to say that, YES, TV is evil.









Okay, maybe not completely evil... Buffy the Vampire Slayer was wonderful, not evil. lol.

We don't have one at home. We DO have a portable DVD player, and we are very careful about what Ds is allowed to watch. However, we don't really limit his viewing. If he feels like watching a buncha videos one day, cool. The next he won't want to watch any at all. If all he did was sit in front of the monitor, I'd be worried and reconsider. But I tend to let him do what he wants to do during his downtime.

He is obsessed with dinosaurs right now, so we got this amazing series on dinosaurs and prehistoric mammals from the science museum. He watches, and recreates the scenes with his own toy dinosaurs. He is learned an amazing amount about biology and geography etc. from them. He can tell you which era the creature is from. He can list all the eras and talk about the climate change associated with them etc. Pretty amazing, really. I don't think he is just memorizing, either.. he seems to be really getting the concepts behind the timelines.

But he is also 4 1/2 now. He didn't watch anything until he was 2/1/2 or 3.


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## catnip (Mar 25, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah* 
Okay, maybe not completely evil... Buffy the Vampire Slayer was wonderful, not evil. lol.

I loved that show! I wasn't able to totally give up TV until the last Joss Whedon show got cancelled







Firefly too. But I wouldn't let a kid younger than 14 or so watch it.

There's a certain degree of character development that you get in episodic fiction that I really enjoy. Something I noticed among the people I know with Buffy and Angel was that people would make those shows a social event. My friends and I would gather at someone's house, eat dinner together, watch the new episode, and then hang out, discuss it and speculate about what was going to happen next. I don't know if this is a peculiarity of my friends and family, or if it is something more people did. Making a TV program a social event like that, to me, shows that there is a positive use of television.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *faeriewisp* 
YES! My oldest dd watched tv or a video up until age 3. What first turned me on to exploring tv-free was when I noticed that bedtime was HORRIFIC when she watched something any time in the day after noon.

Yeah, we never had fights about turning the TV off, or him pleading to watch it, but the effect TV had on him permeated everything he did afterwards and not even he knew why he was acting the way he was - he couldn't point to why he had this kinetic, angry energy. I remember BF and I would just look at each other and say "but we had a good day..." It took a while to figure out was going on (we were slow on the up take) but the minute we acted by taking away the stimulus the reward was immediate.

Funny how something so simple eluded us for a long time.


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## eldadeedlit (Jun 22, 2004)

could somebody link to an article or something about tv rewiring the neural pathways, or causing any other negative effects? We allow the kids to watch videos (but not "TV" since I don't believe in allowing small children to view commercials.) Any links on going TV_free or limiting it would be great. Sorry to hijack the thread!







:


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## Phoebe (Jun 12, 2003)

I never let ds watch tv (except he loved the weather radar for some reason...colors I guess) until he was at least 2. Just like you I discovered I could get a break (for me it was to shower and clean up some stuff) in the a.m. while he watched PBS for an hour. It still bumbs me out a bit that I let him into that but...I don't see it as a problem right now. I live in Minnesota where it is pretty darn cold. Many folks here get out and enjoy the winter. I do not. I'm from the Texas Gulf Coast and I don't do extended time outdoors in a northern winter. I actually would though for my son if I didn't have a newborn strapped to me. Ds is mellow and prone to be a couch potatoe I'm afraid (like his dad) so come spring, the TV is off! I mean no other movies during the day.

Frankly, I grew up with tv. We have satelite with 250 channels. That's what we do at night, me and dh anyway. I don't see a problem with it. As long as there are limits. We had tv growing up (I can't imagine not having it!) and I was allowed to watch a few programs I guess. I don't think I cared about it when I was as young as 2 though. My mom never plopped me down in front of it though...I think. I'm gonna ask her. I think that may be a new babysitting phenomenon.

PS
its PBS or DVD only for ds. It is commercials that I am SUPER aginst.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Well, TV had better NOT be evil b/c that's pretty much all DD has done today is watch DVDs. We're both sick as dogs for the third day running and DH has been away the whole time. I basically threw in the towel today and said we are going to be couch potatoes. And, since the other option seemed to be a constantly wailing two year old, my very last nerve told me that I'd better do this before I run out into the street screaming.

But, generally, we don't watch much TV.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

We only have DVD and videos. No programing at all.

We recently stayed in a motel for 3 days and watched TV at night and in the morning

I am so glad that we don't have programing, its a time waster and just plain awful commercials.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

My mom had sent my a link a week or so ago about some study linking TV and autism.

I have lost the link though as my e-mail program decided it was full and emptied out the emails







:


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## catnip (Mar 25, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
Well, TV had better NOT be evil b/c that's pretty much all DD has done today is watch DVDs. We're both sick as dogs for the third day running and DH has been away the whole time. I basically threw in the towel today and said we are going to be couch potatoes. And, since the other option seemed to be a constantly wailing two year old, my very last nerve told me that I'd better do this before I run out into the street screaming.

But, generally, we don't watch much TV.









Yeah, mom being sick is another potential appropriate use, IMO. Fact is, in times past, most of us would have had community support to pick up the slack when we got sick, but we don't anymore.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

We freaking love TV, we watch it a lot, and we are pretty unapologetic about it.









I've talked (many times over the years in different ways) with the kids about any concerns I had about content or time spent on it. We're all pretty much on the same page about it though. We've learned so much from TV!


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## wemoon (Aug 31, 2002)

We watch TV and we are all fine. We just live in moderation about everything. Like candy isn't necessarily bad, but having candy all day long, every day is bad. Same with TV. It's not horrible to watch TV, but watching it all day, every day is horrible. Some days for us are big "sit in front of the TV with popcorn" days and other days we don't even turn it on. FWIW, I used to think that I would never allow TV for my kids, but things change as you go through life. I don't feel bad about watching TV or allowing my kids to. Just not worth getting bent out of shape about it.


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## CherieBerry (Feb 16, 2007)

TV's aren't evil; the parents who leave their child infront of it hours on end are.

Moderation and age-appropriate programs are the key.

DVRs are great too because the parents can easily record the programs they like and can watch them when the tots are asleep.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CherieBerry* 
TV's aren't evil; the parents who leave their child infront of it hours on end are.

Moderation and age-appropriate programs are the key.

Precisely.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

I don't think most of us who say we don't like TV or our kids react differently than most believe it evil. I for one don't even believe in the concept of evil for anything.

But I think it's also important to point out that not all kids are alike and moderation isn't key for everyone. We didn't turn it off because he was watching it all the time, or was watching inappropriate stuff (again I don't censor a lot of media and DS does go to the movies with myself and BF so content wasn't the issue with us) it was just how severly it effected him even with as little as an hour a day of PBS.

When we did have the TV in our house there was no guilt about it nor do I subscribe to the blanket TV=bad camp. I didn't feel like DS was wasting his time in front of it and I should be "on" with him 24/7. He just isn't able to handle even small amounts of TV in the house so we respect that.

I think a question "is TV evil?" is a misleading question and rarely in life is anything that simple.


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## happymammaof3 (Mar 13, 2006)

We watch TV in moderation. My 15 month old watches age appropriate videos but again, in moderation. She likes watching shows with music. And honestly, I homeschool my two older children, have my 15 month old, and am pg again and have been soooo sick. Some days I can't function and have zero guilt with allowing her to watch an hour of Sesame Street.

Overall we don't care much for TV because it's a time eater. Some shows are great and worth watching and we love to have "family movie night". It's a treat for us.

My older two children watched a lot of TV when they were little, before we had the conviction to stop watching so much. Our TV was on all the time. They are now 11 & almost 14 and are perfectly well adjusted, smart kids who do not have ADD or anything like that. As a matter of fact they could take TV or leave it.

Personally, I think the rise in Autism and ADD is due to vaccinations, not TV, although I don't totally rule out *constant* TV watching in kids as causing problems. I think common sense would tell us that it has to have some negative effect.

It's the video games that get me. Parents who let their kids spend hours on end playing video games. I would think there would more problems associated with that than TV.

Overall though, TV isn't on much at our house. We don't have cable and get very little in. And even we are watching a decent show the commercials are awful! UGH! Mostly, we just love to watch a good movie now and again.

Great thread!


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## mom2evan (Feb 3, 2005)

I, too, have a very active 2.5 y.o. DS, and for us, yes, TV is evil.

While he is extremely active and energetic, my DS is also remarkably even-tempered and easygoing - until, that is, someone turns on the TV. After even five minutes of watching TV or a movie, he becomes whiny, more prone to tantrums (which are rare in the absence of TV), and completely uncooperative. Regardless of content, and regardless of the length of time he spends watching, he has a strong internal reaction to watching TV or movies. It makes me wonder just what effect it has on him, mentally and physiologically.

As an aside, I used to watch an hour or so of TV before bed every night. Of course, that all changed after DS came along, and I haven't watched much TV in the evenings for the past 2.5 years. I had an opportunity to watch just one hour of TV before bed a few nights ago, and couldn't fall asleep that night. My heart was (literally) pounding, my head hurt, and my brain wouldn't turn off. Again, it made me wonder - what the heck does it do to DS?

We aren't entirely TV-free yet, and probably will never be. We don't have any particular daily restrictions or schedules, but our goal is to restrict TV as much as possible.

We think about times when we're particularly prone to let DS watch TV and come up with strategies for those times. DH tends to let DS watch while DH is making dinner on the nights I come home late. We taped up a list of five or six things DS could do during those times, like read books (he's really into the lift-the-flap books lately, and can "read" to himself for 10 minutes or so at a time), play with bubbles in the sink, "help" DH with dinner once DS has prepped (cut) the ingredients, work on puzzles, play with blocks, etc. When DH feels stumped, he refers to the list rather than turn on the TV.

19 months was a HARD age for us. DS was all over the place, a total crazy man in terms of his energy levels, and I can really see how the TV would have been a huge temptation if he had been willing to watch it. Every kid seems to be different in terms of how much TV they seem to want and what effect it has on them. It's a horrible influence for my DS, but for your DC? I would do your best to limit what and how much he watches, but most of all, watch him to see how it effects him.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

We don't watch commercial tv at all. I've been thinking of cancelling our cable. I originally got it because I wanted to keep up with a yoga program I'd been following, but I haven't (and it's _way_ past my current ability level, anyway). I don't think we've actually watched the tv as tv in a year.

We do watch DVDs, though. I've never worried much about "age appropriate" programming, as I'm more concerned with how my child reacts to any given show. If something shows signs of upsetting my child, I'll turn it off. (An example is my nephew. When he was 6 or 7, we were watching Labyrinth, and my nephew freaked out because he thought something would happen to the baby. I went after him - he'd run home - and talked to him about it, and explained that I would _never_ show him a movie where a baby got hurt. I assured him that the baby was going to be okay, so he wouldn't be freaked out. He eventually decided to come back and watch the movie, but I didn't push that at all.) But, I don't worry about the content very much.

DD and ds2 have both watched movies younger than I would have preferred, because ds1 watches movies, and the tv is in the living room. DS1 watched tv from the time he was a newborn. When I was nursing him - about 45 minutes every two hours - I would watch sitcoms and stuff. As he got older, his dad's 24/7 tv thing took over the house.

Personally, I don't worry about tv, if it's used in moderation. I do think some kids are really, really sensitive to it. I also can't stand homes where it's on all the freaking time. My ssiter has the tv on when she has people over at Christmas - that's just too much for me, and her kids don't really cope with it very well.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CherieBerry* 
TV's aren't evil; the parents who leave their child infront of it hours on end are.

Moderation and age-appropriate programs are the key.


I tend to think that context and helping children understand their own personal comfort levels/sensitivities is the key. Like my kids watch a lot of programs, and have their whole lives really, that many people would not consider "age appropriate". But we discussed these shows and characters and plots and special effects as well as how the show made us feel. As teens my kids watch a lot of shows that I would never personally watch. My Ds likes war movies (he's dying to see the upcoming "300") and in the last year or so Dd has been experimenting with watching horror movies, something she was not personally comfortable with before.

Context is everything. We were caring for a good friend's girls for the night recently. They are 5 and 7 years old. Their mom doesn't discuss things with them the way I do with my kids (which is fine... her kids not mine, etc). I found myself a little uncomfortable with them watching an MTV program that had people who just met talking about "hooking up and getting naked" as well as some crappy sexist/stereotyped gender role stuff. I groaned out loud when the older little girl said "That girl is the popular one because she's skinnier." about a girl on the show. _Ick_. I asked if they wanted me to change it and they said no so I left it.

These girls have little input about these things because mom doesn't get into these kinds of topics pretty much ever, let alone with her girls because she thinks they are too young for any "deep" topics or anything sex related. So I talked with them a bit about how people come in all shapes and sizes and about how kindness and the way we treat others is more important than appearance, etc. A few minutes later they lost interest in the show and someone ended up changing it to country music videos.









I'm rambling, but I don't think kids have to watch _only_ kids shows/material.


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## SwissMama (Sep 5, 2005)

Maybe its not evil, maybe it is. But i just say "its not necessary" and for me personally, that ends the exploration of what tv "is", right then and there.


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

The thing I hate about TV is that it always seems to take a very prominent part in what kids think about and play and want to talk about. I really don't like it when kids have nothing to talk about but TV characters, TV stories, TV songs.

Also--TV is designed to suck you in, and the major effects of TV to me have little to do with what shows are actually on. In many ways I agree with that old crackpot Marshall McLuhan--the medium is the message. That means that in some ways it doesn't actually matter what the contect of the programming is--what matters is that you are sitting blank-faced in front of a blinking lighted box. TV is almost always a substitute for doing something else.

When people say their kids are getting out of hand, I always think: When was the last time that kid went outside? When was the last time that kid ran or walked or danced OUTSIDE? Even if it seems like torture to get them out there and it takes 45 minutes to get everyone's coats and shoes on, I've always found that getting outside makes everyone happy, including me. I really regret it when I know we need to go out, and we don't. Even a walk halfway down the block and back helps. Even at night. Even at 10:00 at night. (Yes! I have done this. The dog likes it too.)

I am a single mom, and when I want a break (I don't have a TV) I use recorded stories on cassette tape or CD. There are some good ones out there (often for sale cheap & used on Amazon.com, Mothering often has ads for them too) and you can even make your own. My son will really sit and concentrate on these. It's OK with me because he must use his imagination to fill out the pictures, as it were--one of the big reasons I DO think TV is evil is because every part of the experience is passive. There is nothing left for kids to imagine or interpret--it's all done for you. But using these recordings is pretty close to the oldest form of human entertainment--telling each other stories. (That's what TV is doing, of course, but in a rather different way.)

Another idea, if you must watch a screen--old silent movies! I very, very occasionally show my 4-year-old son a DVD (like 4 times a year) and he LOVES Charlie Chaplin movies. He won't pick up any annoying catch-phrases from them, the editing is not flashy, and he still has to use his imagination to fill in part of the experience because there is no dialogue. And they are funny--and I like them too. I will probably end up becoming a silent-film expert by the time he's 9 or 10!


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2* 
Also--TV is designed to suck you in, and the major effects of TV to me have little to do with what shows are actually on. In many ways I agree with that old crackpot Marshall McLuhan--the medium is the message. That means that in some ways it doesn't actually matter what the contect of the programming is--what matters is that you are sitting blank-faced in front of a blinking lighted box. TV is almost always a substitute for doing something else.

This I definitely agree with you. BF and I and our friends can't stand going to a bar for drinks where there's a TV. It doesn't matter what's on and the fact that there's no sound, if there's a lull in conversation everyone winds up facing that damn screen. Regardless of whether or not anyone's interested in what's showing. It's automatic.


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

Well we watch quite a bit of TV at our house. DS watches Noggin mostly, so it's all commercial free and age appropriate.

He didn't watch TV until he was over 2 years old. I was trying to run a business from home (helping my husband get his business started), WOH full time, and watch DS when I was at home. It was not working and I was losing my temper a lot! Enter the TV, and our lives became so much more peaceful. I do make an effort to ensure that he has time to play outside, paint, draw, be read to, etc., but TV is a major feature in our lives, and I think we are the better for it.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

DD would be completely tv free if it weren't for me.









She actually isn't interested in tv at all. I was given a Baby Einstein video when she was an infant and in a moment of desperation, I popped it in. She screamed bloody murder.

I do think that tv is bad for infants and small toddlers, but when I am having a tough day and DD wants me to read the trains book for the 500th time in a row, I will turn on Star Trek with the sound off. There are a few other shows I like at night, either after she's in bed or when DH can distract her. Or I watch the tv on my computer where she can't see it.

DD was over at a play date the other day when the other kids wanted Elmo - it's actually DD's DVD that someone gave us and I lent out - and while they watched, she wandered around looking at all of the cool toys. So, I'm not worried too much about her.


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## Krystal323 (May 14, 2004)

yaknow it's funny, but my kids seem to watch an awful lot of tv for living in a house without cable!







Grandma's house, DVDs, the theatre, even YouTube sometimes









when my son was about 4, i was convinced tv WAS evil, and i think i made him miserable and confused and ashamed about, what, a couple hours of PBS every day?? In hindsight, that was dumb of me. Instead of freaking out that teletubbies would rot his brain, i should have sat there and watched it with him, found out what interested him about it, and possibly inspired a fit of giggles about it. Made it into something positive between us, not a bone of contention









One thing those awesome unschooley people taught me is this: EVERYTHING IS EDUCATIONAL. If you let it be. A child's mind is this amazing, scientific marvel that learns gobs of stuff seemingly by osmosis--so _if he's interested by something, there's a reason why--he is learning!_ Possibly not what you want him to learn, heh, but that's another issue entirely. You'll want to give gentle guidance, but you can't have (and wouldn't want) complete control over every sensory input either.

So why don't I have cable?? I'm just a cheapskate!







I could care less about tv for myself, but for the kids, i think it can be a great way to broaden their perspectives, show them cool new things, teach them stuff, and yep, give a break to me sometimes too









no worries


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## Krystal323 (May 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SwissMama* 
Maybe its not evil, maybe it is. But i just say "its not necessary" and for me personally, that ends the exploration of what tv "is", right then and there.

if i limited my life to ONLY that which is necessary, it'd be pretty bland, dontcha think?

okay now that i read what everyone else said









Re: the commercials-- My kids and I talk about the commericals a lot! They're 4 and 7, and my 7yo esp. is already savvy enough to know that those people jumping up and down having a grand ol time are NOT having it because of their diet 7up. He also knows that a lot of the toys they advertise hardcore DON't perform like they seem to in the commerical, and often break pretty easily too. Because he's had experience with seeing the commercial, buying the thing (sometimes with his own money), and then being disappointed when the product isn't up to snuff. He knows that "big sales" on tv might not be sales at all, he knows to check eBay or the secondhand shop, or even look for off-brand items if we think they might be equally well-made. He's a savvy little consumer, and he's learned plenty of that from analyzing commericals with me. Contrast that with the child who's never been exposed to that stuff: this old episode of Mork and Mindy comes to mind--where Mork the alien, new to earth, sees teh ads on tv and is enthralled, buying EVERYTHING they tell him to and calling every 900-number too!! okay i'm blowing it way out of proportion LOL, but really. Even the commericals can be educational.

the other things--like the clique mentality, the skanky-dressed girls on tv sometimes......well, we talk about those things too--"why do you think she wants to wear such a short skirt, doesn't that look uncomfortable? i wonder why.." or "why are those kids being rude to her? they acted so nice earlier in the show...?" and the conversations get quite interesting from there. I don't try to pass judgment on anything they happen to see, rather, i prompt them to put words to their feelings about it and try to keep dialogue open.

JMTC


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## SwissMama (Sep 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Krystal323* 
if i limited my life to ONLY that which is necessary, it'd be pretty bland, dontcha think?


Of course. This was MY reasoning, it doesn't have to be anyone elses. I don't limit myself to only what is necessary; I have a lot of pleasures in life







But, for me personally, it saves me from having to put a lot of thought into that particular issue. I don't see much good coming out of it for our family, and its not necessary, so there we go. Same with things like fast food. We like to go to the play gym a lot, its not ~necessary~ but I don't have to put a lot of research into it as to whether or not its healthy for my 2 year old either. What can I say? I research everything I do to death as it is, so why not simplify a few a things









You may be surprised to read that I agree a lot with your post, the commercial part and all.









I can't really speak to any of it though, because I'm in a different country and I find the broadcasting here MUCH different then it is in the U.S. It's funny that you mentioned the sales, because my daughter is really into reading numbers right now and pointing out objects, so we are always looking at the grocery store flyers together.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2* 
I really don't like it when kids have nothing to talk about but TV characters, TV stories, TV songs.

 Yea, I agree that it would strike me as a bit strange if TV (or related things) were the ONLY thing a child ever discussed. I've never witnessed that but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. We do discuss TV shows and characters a bit in our family. Quotes from Friends, Futurama, The Simpsons, SNL and so on pepper our conversations around here regularly.

Quote:

TV is almost always a substitute for doing something else.
 Sometimes I think it is a substitute, and I think that's okay. (Like _sometimes_ it's okay to watch a bit of TV instead of doing the dishes but it wouldn't be okay to do it all the time, etc.) For the most part when my family watches TV it's because we really find what we're watching interesting or because we find it mildly interesting/funny and we are enjoying the relaxation. We don't have a lot to avoid.









Quote:

one of the big reasons I DO think TV is evil is because every part of the experience is passive. There is nothing left for kids to imagine or interpret--it's all done for you.
 I disagree, respectfully.







When we watch TV often we all end up discussing, debating, and just generally going over what we thought about the story, characters, plot, and etc. We did this recently after watching "Little Miss Sunshine" when a particular character and scene had me all ticked off LOL. My son has frequently been inspired by TV and movies to write and create some really interesting story lines and characters. I might agree it can be passive, but I can't say that it's all passive. That just hasn't been our experience.

Quote:

Another idea, if you must watch a screen--old silent movies!
You're so right! Some of those are really fun to watch.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2* 
The thing I hate about TV is that it always seems to take a very prominent part in what kids think about and play and want to talk about. I really don't like it when kids have nothing to talk about but TV characters, TV stories, TV songs.

oh, I so agree with you. Dd1 had a friend she used to play with...her friend is 5. Her parents started popping in the Disney videos and turning on Dora a year or so ago...I swear ever since all this girl wants to do is play passive princess (meaning, she needs to be found by a handsome prince







) or pretend that she's Dora (and no, she hasn't learnt more than two words of Spanish even though she watches that show all the time).

It's gotten to the point where dd1 doesn't want to play with her anymore. Her parents are good friends of dh's, so we kind of "have" to get together a lot anyway. Dd1 can't relate to this girl anymore, though.


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## tiffer23 (Nov 7, 2005)

I haven't read the replies, and I'm sure I'm in the VERY VERY small minority, but we watch tv. And I love it. And I have absolutely no plans of getting rid of it.

Every morning my son and I watch Mickey Mouse Clubhouse together. He loves it. He loves when I sing and pick which tools to use, and point out colors, animals, etc. I don't just sit him in front of it to veg (except the one time I had a stomach virus). We also watch Handy Manny, Backyardigans, and some DVDs like BE, VeggieTales, and PraiseBaby. I watch a 2 year old as well, and he likes some of these. When I say they "watch" them, they actually only come over for the songs. Once the songs are over, most of the time they are off playing again. So they aren't just staring at the tv for 1/2 and hour or something.

Yes, I think the tv can be a bad thing. But I do not think watching a small amount a day will severely damage my little boy. If I did, you can bet I wouldn't allow it.

Everything in moderation, imo.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

I haven't read all the posts, but I can tell you that I have a son who is not quite 2, and before he was born DH and I swore that he would *never* watch TV. We knew the ADD statistics, and just didn't think it would be good for him.

With that being said, and to use an old cliche, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. We *do* fall into the camp of occasionally turning on a video for him to get a few things done.

Am I proud of it? No, and I also feel guilty. But does it help keep the sanity? Yes, it does.

I have a very demanding job (not high paying unfortunately) and DH is a full-time student. We are incredibly stressed out almost all the time.

When you weigh the pros and cons of a video/TV show such as Sesame Street to get a tiny bit of downtime vs. not doing that, I'm in favor of having less stress.

If you look at the big picture, we are better parents overall.

Don't be so hard on yourself (and I know...it's really hard).


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## amyb15 (Jan 10, 2007)

I would allow TV, but regulate it. Watching TV (news) can be quite educational and develop his point of views and political understandings a bit better... always good to stay intact with society.









However, TV can also influence somebody very poorly. It can bring about negative ideas, introduce swear words and explicit material, and cause certain children to think differently. Don't feel guilty, you did an OK thing!


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

We are 95% TV-free and really happy about it. Honestly, I see a lot of positive effects for DD: she retains an innocence that I don't see in her friends who do watch it, even "kids'" movies and DVDs. There's smart-ass, wise-aleck humor and violence even in G-rated stuff. I also am happy that she doesn't bug me for character toys and gear. Her imagination is also amazing; a big thing for me is that I hate it when kids do repetitive play based on TV and video games.

I also wouldn't underestimate the potential for TV to become a disruptive force between parent and child, especially when the parent is ambivalent and unsure. I've witnessed many a whining fit and argument between a parent who wanted to turn the TV off and a kid who wanted it on. I'm glad not to have that dynamic in my life.


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## `guest` (Nov 20, 2001)

I'm surprised at how polarized people are about tv. I think that as a single mama, you have a lot of stress (my sis is and I am in awe of her). It's all about balance. No one can feel your stress level and tension except you.

My parents didn't allow tv and spoke of it as "evil". I always thought they were nuts...and nothing is "evil" unless you give it that power.

I find balance to be key...in the sense that a little is okay if you are okay with it. If you aren't okay with it, then don't do it. But if a little break now and then gives you some needed peace, then it's not evil, it's positive. I personally am in awe of people who can constantly interact with their kids. I do read, to them, play, colour, etc. But it's important for me to have "me" time, too, without someone questioning/asking/needing, etc.

I feel the loving caring home we have is too strong to be influenced by something so superfluous as television. If I don't make it a huge issue, it's not a huge issue. Everything in moderation.


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## trivialnest (Mar 2, 2007)

I think tv is amoral. You may choose the channel you want to watch.. Like for example discovery channel... and other science features... But it will become an instrument of evil if you watch bad movies..

We just watch tv every weekend..


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## CaraNicole (Feb 28, 2007)

i'm not going to lie i'm a semi t.v. junkie...it's usually on but i don't really watch it...i like the background noise(a break from music or the waterfall) my son just made 4 mo. some shows he seems to like...basketball (only the girls) cartoons and disc. ch/court tv/disc health (my only channels i watch besides supernanny/wife swap/dateline 20.20) he'll look at it for a few min then move on to playing...i doubt a few 10 min glances are going to hurt him...if you need your rest GET IT! eaiser said than done...my idea of rest right now ds asleep on one arm typing one handed...i know what you mean about an active child...this kid is more active than all the other older babies in the family...i love it but sometimes it's trying...do what you feel is right...your his mom for a reason, you know what is best for you child...my hat is off to you for being a single mom!


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

We turn it on to replace community . . . I get lonely during the day in the winter. So it's on, often all day if we're home. That doesn't mean we watch it intently, we often do other things while it's on. Today we made shaker instruments, cooked, did dishes, did laundry, read a few stories, did a few puzzles . . . And I'm as likely to have one of the music stations on as one of the shows.
I used to feel very guilty about it until I realized why I turn it on. It doesn't bother me any more.


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## Bisou (Dec 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
I haven't read all the posts, but I can tell you that I have a son who is not quite 2, and before he was born DH and I swore that he would *never* watch TV. We knew the ADD statistics, and just didn't think it would be good for him.

With that being said, and to use an old cliche, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. We *do* fall into the camp of occasionally turning on a video for him to get a few things done.

Am I proud of it? No, and I also feel guilty. But does it help keep the sanity? Yes, it does.

I have a very demanding job (not high paying unfortunately) and DH is a full-time student. We are incredibly stressed out almost all the time.

When you weigh the pros and cons of a video/TV show such as Sesame Street to get a tiny bit of downtime vs. not doing that, I'm in favor of having less stress.

If you look at the big picture, we are better parents overall.

Don't be so hard on yourself (and I know...it's really hard).

I am the one who started this thread, and I have a somewhat similar situation. My life is really stressful and hectic. I am a working single mom of a 20 month old son. A lot of my work is online since I am a part-time college instructor, and I am home with him alone 12+ hours a day nearly every day of the week. After he goes to sleep, I often stay up working until 2-3 am.

We also live out in the middle of nowhere. The nearest town is 30 minutes away, and once you get there, there isn't anything to do aside from go to the grocery store. There are no play parks or play groups. If there were fun things to do, I'd probably get us out of the house more. The nearest place with fun kid activities is 1 hour and a half away (each way), and we try to go there at least once a week.

Add to this that he is a very active, intense little boy. I was getting really frustrated with him (especially after a really bad hitting phase that lasted a couple months), and I have found that TV gives us such nice downtime. He sits calmly next to me and cuddles while we watch Sesame Street or Bob the Builder. We talk about what is going on during the show (when I don't fall asleep, with him sitting on my lap) and have nice bonding time.

After 30-90 minutes (though I prefer no more than an hour) I find that I am relaxed, a little more patient, rested, and ready to engage him in an art project, feed him lunch, take him outside, or do some other kind of active play.

I still feel guilty, and I think if I had more help and more rest, I probably would have the energy to do something other than watch TV.

I am actually surprised that the most recent postings have been more TV-positive, as I expected most MDC moms to be anti-TV. It does make me feel a little better, like I'm not the only one indulging in this activity.

I do have overly high expectations for myself as a parent. Ugh. Is there a cure for this?


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## Bisou (Dec 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
We are 95% TV-free and really happy about it. Honestly, I see a lot of positive effects for DD: she retains an innocence that I don't see in her friends who do watch it, even "kids'" movies and DVDs. There's smart-ass, wise-aleck humor and violence even in G-rated stuff.

Yes, I agree with that. That's why I watch all shows carefully and make sure there isn't any of that. Many of the mainstream cartoons have lots of violence and other bad behavior.

I also am happy that she doesn't bug me for character toys and gear. Her imagination is also amazing; a big thing for me is that I hate it when kids do repetitive play based on TV and video games.

Agreed.

I also wouldn't underestimate the potential for TV to become a disruptive force between parent and child, especially when the parent is ambivalent and unsure. I've witnessed many a whining fit and argument between a parent who wanted to turn the TV off and a kid who wanted it on. I'm glad not to have that dynamic in my life.

Unfortunately, I have seen a little bit of that in my son, but I am working through that by telling him, "Ok, at 10:00 we can watch Bob the Builder." Then, as the show comes to an end, I tell him "Bob is over, so we're going to turn the TV off." That seems to be helping quite a bit. I do share your concerns though.


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## sparkprincess (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:

*I think that the biggest danger comes from parents who use TV in place of any real interaction with their kids, kids who watch TV with no other activities (like outdoor play, play with friends, or creative and imagination-building activities like art and reading),* and parents who allow their children to watch TV without supervision. When my son watches TV, I am always watching with him, and he only watches programs I have seen several times, and only shows without commercials.
This is how I look at it. It's one thing to prop your kid in front of the tv all day and another to let them watch a show or two that they live as a PART of their day.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I use tv with my 2.5 yr old, primarily dvd's. Never thought I would, but there ya go. Because of our work situation, if I am home that means dh isn't. But ds gets so many adventures, I don't feel guilty about 30-60 minutes of tv time. I live in a mild climate, and we are always out of the house doing something fun. It's a rare day that we don't have a toddler-oriented adventure to go on.

We spent the day at the zoo today, and I will likely put in a dvd soon so I can make dinner. I can't feel bad about it, after the exciting, educational, stimulating day he had. If I am sick, I don't feel guilty at all. I'm only one person, ya know? I know some people can make it without it, even single moms. I guess I'm not one of them.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2* 
Another idea, if you must watch a screen--old silent movies! I very, very occasionally show my 4-year-old son a DVD (like 4 times a year) and he LOVES Charlie Chaplin movies. He won't pick up any annoying catch-phrases from them, the editing is not flashy, and he still has to use his imagination to fill in part of the experience because there is no dialogue. And they are funny--and I like them too. I will probably end up becoming a silent-film expert by the time he's 9 or 10!

That sounds like a fun idea! Although, I can't see how a silent-film is a better choice than my Scholastic Books on dvd. It is still my child staring passively at the tv. I suppose if we were watching regularly programmed cartoons, it would be better. I haven't noticed any annoying catch phrases on Clifford, and we don't walk into the store an feel attacked by Clifford merchandise.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

I fall into the "everything in moderation" camp.

as PPs have said, TV is designed to suck you in and hold your attention. As a result, it can be tremendously powerful education tool - my 3 year old can name many different "things that fly" at the Dulles Air and Space Museum because he watched the "on the go" baby einstein video about 1000 times.

But it can also be destructive. Small children do not know the difference between a commercial and a program. We don't allow the kids to watch ANY commericals if possible (we watch almost exclusively prerecorded programs on TiVo or DVDs) - if we are watching American Idol live, for example, I will mute the commercials (more because they bug the heck out of me). When the boys are older - 5 - 6 or so, I guess, I plan on giving them a thorough education about advertising.

I find that TV also can limit the ability to explore other things - why bother going outside or playing with crayons or playdoh or making pretend dinner, when we can watch another episode of Noddy? I think limits are important - I think it is key to be thoughtful about TV.

DH and I have a rule- if you are not intentionally watching a program, TURN OFF THE TV.
We also have a projector TV and it costs $300 to replace the bulb - which only lasts 4000 hours. So we have a STRONG incentive to turn off the TV when we don't need to have it on.

It is very easy for me to be a couch potato if I am not careful. I find that while watching TV for a couple of hours is a great relaxer for me, I resent losing more time than that to it. We also don't want the TV on during the day or on weekends - though it makes that 6 -7pm predinner period go a lot more smoothly! ; )

And frankly, if the TV is on all day, it loses its effectiveness at buying you critical down time when you REALLY need it.

If we want background noise, we turn on a cd or the radio. The boys also watch some (carefully selected) youtube videos - mainly garbage trucks. Just garbage trucks loading garbage. They can watch those videos for HOURS.


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

The decision we made was not to have TV because there is a tendency for families to watch too much of it. In my opinion, 2 hours a day is too much. If I were a single mom, I'd be really tempted to do what you're doing, very tempted. However, I still don't think it's a good idea. Obviously, the vast majority of Americans disagree with me.


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

Families survived without TV for thousands of years. It has really only existed since the late 1950s, and in its 24-hour form for about 25 years. You don't need TV to raise a kid--plenty of people have done just fine without it.

And just to reply to the above--I HAVE seen plenty of Clifford stuff in various places, and I DO feel somewhat assaulted by any display of TV-character-related merchandise. Even the PBS shows are commercials for these products. You just can't get around that. Marketing to kids has increased to the tune of tens of billions of dollars a year more now than even in the 1970s.

Watching TV teaches kids to watch TV, along with anything else they might learn (which, by the way, you can *always* get from books, or from talking to people, or from going outside)--I actually think this is the primary thing it teaches.

I will probably never have a TV, at least not for a long time. (There is almost nothing I want to watch myself anyway.) My son can spend his first year of college watching TV until his eyeballs fall out if he want--I don't really worry about that much, because I know that he will have learned how to entertain himself without TV by then--and that won't go away. I think it is a very silly argument that "we should show them TV now, so they get used to it and don't overdose when they're older!" I think it's just making excuses. You only have one chance to be three years old and learn how to live without television. My son can also 'name many things that fly'--and he didn't have to watch a video to learn this.


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## catnip (Mar 25, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2* 
Watching TV teaches kids to watch TV, along with anything else they might learn (which, by the way, you can *always* get from books, or from talking to people, or from going outside)--I actually think this is the primary thing it teaches.

There are things that video captures in ways you can't get from books. My daughter can watch video of the grandfather that died before she was born, or of wild polar bears, or other things that she can't experience first hand, and that is great.

(member of the very limited camp here)


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## trinity6232000 (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *catnip* 
There are things that video captures in ways you can't get from books. My daughter can watch video of the grandfather that died before she was born, or of wild polar bears, or other things that she can't experience first hand, and that is great.

(member of the very limited camp here)

(I'm a member of your camp as well catnip







)

I don't have a problem with my child, or myself watching tv. We're also big talkers
while watching tv. My dd likes nature shows, and oddly at age 6 she loves watching
the history channel with her Pap. Dd asks a lot of questions while we watch tv, after
we google different subjects getting more information on what we watched.

I think the real problem isn't with tv, it's with how a lifestyle can revolve around tv.
Allowing children (or anybody for that matter) to just lay in front of the tv without
any other activity in their life is not how I wish to live. Getting on the couch with
popcorn, my dd and a movie sounds like a good time for me. Watching a special on
seal lions is a fun activity for us. So is spending all day in the garden when it's warm
and sled riding when there is snow. All in balance.

Plus tv has given me lots of opportunity to talk to my dd about commercialism. At 6
she does understand that commercials are created to entice you. While grocery
shopping once a small child was crying over a cereal cause they wanted the toy. Dd
gently went up to the child and told him that the toy inside of the cereal is not as cool
as it looks, and that the cereal makes it look cool to trick us. The kid understood. The
other Mom and myself were actually shocked, #1 that dd said this, #2 that her child
didn't want the cereal after dd talked to him.

I'm just not a all or nothing person. I think that with everything in life we need to find
a balance and tv is a part of that for my family. Maybe more because I am a single
Mom, but I don't feel guilty for that. I'm doing the best I can. I spend a lot of time with
my dd, and she is well rounded and loved. And yeah, she watches television.


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

Now that i've made all these speeches, i should say that my son is not entirely pure, because he watches Magic School Bus videos at his dad's house sometimes. (And doesn't stop talking about them for weeks afterwards...) But at least he doesn't have a TV!


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## Bisou (Dec 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2* 
Now that i've made all these speeches, i should say that my son is not entirely pure, because he watches Magic School Bus videos at his dad's house sometimes. (And doesn't stop talking about them for weeks afterwards...) But at least he doesn't have a TV!









Here's to being honest!


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *catnip* 
There are things that video captures in ways you can't get from books. My daughter can watch video of the grandfather that died before she was born, or of wild polar bears, or other things that she can't experience first hand, and that is great.

(member of the very limited camp here)

A TV isn't necessary for watching a documentary about polar bears.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyWild* 
A TV isn't necessary for watching a documentary about polar bears.

True, but it's probably easier.

I don't remember who it was that made the comment about rewiring neural pathways, but I just want to add to that.

While I agree that it's somewhat disconcerting that TV would have an effect on forming who a child will become . . . one also has to keep the perspective that we have 100,000,000 neurons, each capable of forming 100,000,000 pathways . . . we also only use 2% of our brains.

IMO, TV will have an impression on a child, but it doesn't have to be a bad one.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I just skimmed through most of the responses. I did do some head nodding when I was reading Fuller's posts a couple pages back.

I don't believe that TV itself is evil. I also don't think that you have to be TV free unless you want to. But I do think that the marketing of it all is very insidious. There are some other issues I take with TV.

1. Whether you watch just videos or regular TV, there is much marketing going on in the shows themselves... and kids simply don't have the frame of reference from being in the world long enough to recognize that it is marketing. There is a lot of product placement, especially in cartoons. Marketers spend billions and billions of dollars on direct to children marketing that override any parent influence. I used to work for a pharma company... they do the same kind of marketing of their drugs direct to patients. I had read that kids have something like over 5 billion dollars of discretionary spending money per year... almost all of it goes to purchasing products directly marketed to them through TV... not the commercials... the actual shows. That included movies, and of course the Disney princesses were #1 on that list.

2. The marketing encompasses all parts of a child's life. Kids can no longer just watch a show... the marketers make sure that you can also get T-shirts, dolls, toothbrushes, shampoo, chairs, board games, butt wipes, yogurt, cheeses, crackers, etc. that reinforce this TV show exposure in a child's mind. It is almost impossible to AVOID it. This worries me because the industry has taken away MY option as a parent to not allow this exposure. 5 year old Dd has never watched Dora, yet she knows who she is because she's everywhere. Even if you opt to do all-natural everything, you can't avoid it if you ever go into a store.

3. The fact that when children view TV/videos, their brains reduce activity to the point of being in a state close to deep sleep. The first few years of a child's life is when their synapses are forming most rapidly and the way the pathways form is based on their experiences. If the experiences are within the framework of TV in large part, instead of real life (and that carries over to kids using TV as the basis for "pretend play" when they're not in front of the screen) then they are not experiencing real life to be included in that neural network... in essence, I wonder if they turn in to TV Mike's from Willy Wonka.







But I don't think for this reason only you would want to go TV free. This, for me, is an issue of moderation and providing a rich home environment, in general.

4. I don't like the messages TV is sending to young girls and boys today. I'll just end it with that because I could go on and on about body image and forced gender roles, etc.

So, at 5 years old, dd has probably watched less than 10 hours of TV, but we do have foreign language cartoons and English language cartoons of characters that are not marketed in the US (we used to live in Germany). I worry most about the marketing, which I feel takes away a lot of opportunity for dd to simply THINK about things. We have some DVDs of old musicals that dd enjoys, too, but even with them you have to be careful. Dd loves Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, but that has to be the most sexist movie ever made! We talk A LOT about how the Pontipee brothers are treating their brides and how if a man ever treated us that way, we'd not take it.







But boy does it get dd to dancing and singing!


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## SuperMama (Jan 22, 2007)




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## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

Well if it's any consolation, there is a study in the "Einstein Never Used Flash Cards" that shows that the right kind of TV IS educational - but it's like Barney and Teletubbies, not Sesame Street LOL. It's because of the repetition (sorry it's been a while since I read it - not sure exactly why).

That said, I too am conflicted. My DD DOES have ADHD (at 3) and I let her start watching videos at 18 months. Then it quickly ballooned out of control. Especially if my mom or my DH was watching her. I mean like 6 hours! GADS! (We went through a very stressful move then I had a terrible miscarriage then another pregnancy right on top of that - I was one sick momma!)

I've really struggled to cut it down. All of it has been children's non-commercial stuff, of course, but gads! We're down to 3 videos a day max and I'm happy with that.

The funny thing was that when DD was being diagnosed with her issues (CAPD, SID and ADHD) the psychologist asked "does she attend well to TV?" and I explained our situation. She nodded and said "yes lots of parents find that their kid with ADHD is attentive more to TV" which made me think that this is a real chicken vs egg problem - mabye ADHD kids watch more TV because that's how they're wired - not that TV MAKES them ADHD...that's what she seemed to be saying.

Anyway, since my DD was diagnosed, we have used the Einstein videos especially to work on language issues. Since she will sit and watch them, we use them as video books and talk about everything we see on the screen. Now she usually talks through alot of her videos! LOL

I guess I think it's passive TV watching that is the real mind killer. If you can use what you are watching to TALK to your child - about what they are seeing, what they think will happen, how they feel about the stories they see, what real life situations it brings up, then I think it's basically no more harmful than a book.

JMO
peace,
robyn


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## `guest` (Nov 20, 2001)

"The funny thing was that when DD was being diagnosed with her issues (CAPD, SID and ADHD) the psychologist asked "does she attend well to TV?" and I explained our situation. She nodded and said "yes lots of parents find that their kid with ADHD is attentive more to TV" which made me think that this is a real chicken vs egg problem - mabye ADHD kids watch more TV because that's how they're wired - not that TV MAKES them ADHD...that's what she seemed to be saying."

I was totally nodding my head to this; I've been a mama for 19 yrs now, and kids are so different, some will sit glued to the tv and some couldn't care less. Yes, chicken and egg, def. Good point.


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HerthElde* 
True, but it's probably easier.

I don't remember who it was that made the comment about rewiring neural pathways, but I just want to add to that.

While I agree that it's somewhat disconcerting that TV would have an effect on forming who a child will become . . . one also has to keep the perspective that we have 100,000,000 neurons, each capable of forming 100,000,000 pathways . . . we also only use 2% of our brains.

IMO, TV will have an impression on a child, but it doesn't have to be a bad one.

If a person thinks that watching TV is a fantastic thing for children, that's one thing. But if a person is really just giving in to it because it's easier for them, but at the same time they have a feeling that it's not the best thing, that's a whole different matter. I find that many parents know that their children are watching too much TV, getting to much marketing directed at them, and are watching too much unsupervised programming. Some even know that their kids are watching less than optimal programming, yet they just don't do anything about it because of a bunch of excuses.


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## catnip (Mar 25, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyWild* 
A TV isn't necessary for watching a documentary about polar bears.

No, but some sort of video playback device is necessary, and really, what difference does it make whether one watches a video on a TV or a computer monitor or a wall projector?


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## trinity6232000 (Dec 2, 2001)

I'm trying to come from a good place with my message.

I'm a little uncomfortable for some reason with how this thread has continued. I know that the title is *"Is TV Evil"* but from reading many of the responses I wonder how many of us have read the OP's original post?

Cause the issue is tv bad isn't the only issue here. When I read the OP I was thinking far more about tired Mama than I was about child watching tv. Maybe I am wrong to think that, but we can rant and rant about our kids watching tv, but did you read the OP?

We can debate till the cows come home the evils of tv, but where are the hugs or suggestions for the OP. I don't have any because I don't mind my dd watching tv from time to time.

Like does anybody have a child who is watched by grandparents and how can we discuss this issue with the grandparents so that maybe there are different activities other than tv. Or maybe suggestions on activities to keep a toddler busy while Mama takes a break. That's how the thread started, can we continue it.

I'm sorry but when I read the "we're tv free, and tv is bad" and that's all there is written in the reply to the post, it's leaving a bad taste in my mouth, especially in the single mom forum. Because I know very well that my dd would watch less tv, if she lived in a 2 parent home. I might not be as tired, and my house might be cleaner as well if dd lived in a 2 parent home. But it isn't, and we're all doing the best we can, so lets maybe spread some love, and suggestions.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trinity6232000* 
I'm sorry but when I read the "we're tv free, and tv is bad" and that's all there is written in the reply to the post, it's leaving a bad taste in my mouth, especially in the single mom forum. Because I know very well that my dd would watch less tv, if she lived in a 2 parent home. I might not be as tired, and my house might be cleaner as well if dd lived in a 2 parent home. But it isn't, and we're all doing the best we can, so lets maybe spread some love, and suggestions.









I see what you're saying - but it seemed to me the OP was open to others' opinions, period. Perhaps she can clear this up?


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## trinity6232000 (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HerthElde* 
I see what you're saying - but it seemed to me the OP was open to others' opinions, period. Perhaps she can clear this up?

No your correct, I feel the OP is open to others' opinions. I was just worried about the direction
of the thread when it's only a debate of the evil of tv, and leaving out the support and suggestions
of ideas. We can debate the evils of tv all day, leaving the Mama asking for advise with what?

I kinda stepped up on my soapbox, I'd been holding it in the past couple days, I just hoped to take
the thread in a more positive direction.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I think sometimes as parents, we do the best we can, and really...it's good enough.

No, I don't think it's terrible for you to sometimes cuddle together and watch a little Sesame Street when you've had a long night and you need a break. If it prevents you from yelling or being sharp, and lets you fill up the 'cuteness tank' you get from cuddling your little guy, then I think you should not beat yourself up for indulging in that once in awhile.

Your parents turning on the TV all the time to adult shows is another matter though. I think it depends on the kind of shows they're watching--what about suggesting that they mute it (so that the close captioning comes on) so that DS doesn't pick up on upsetting news coverage or angry debate or adult themes? If its on primarily as white noise, maybe suggest they turn on the radio (though once DS gets a little older you have to monitor that too...:/) If you live with them, and they do what they want to anyway, I think your most pragmatic hope is to compromise. A lot of people just don't think about little kids absorbing what they hear. My mom wants the TV on all the time too, but she and my dad (who hates TV, it's part of a little power struggle they ahve) agreed to keep it on mute when it's on CNN or Fox (sigh) and my mom's soap operas, and that they would flip to something else if something gory came on.

I think you're absolutely right that in ideal circumstances no TV is best...but the fact of the matter is you can't control all of your circumstance right now. To me, this means you should cut yourself some slack, and just do the best you can in the circumstance. You love your son, and your busting your butt for him, even when it's not always convenient. That's what's most important, mama. Focus on what you can do, instead of griefing yourself over something that you just don't have much control over. HTH.


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## Bisou (Dec 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trinity6232000* 
I'm trying to come from a good place with my message.

I'm a little uncomfortable for some reason with how this thread has continued. I know that the title is *"Is TV Evil"* but from reading many of the responses I wonder how many of us have read the OP's original post?

Cause the issue is tv bad isn't the only issue here. When I read the OP I was thinking far more about tired Mama than I was about child watching tv. Maybe I am wrong to think that, but we can rant and rant about our kids watching tv, but did you read the OP?

We can debate till the cows come home the evils of tv, but where are the hugs or suggestions for the OP. I don't have any because I don't mind my dd watching tv from time to time.

Like does anybody have a child who is watched by grandparents and how can we discuss this issue with the grandparents so that maybe there are different activities other than tv. Or maybe suggestions on activities to keep a toddler busy while Mama takes a break. That's how the thread started, can we continue it.

I'm sorry but when I read the "we're tv free, and tv is bad" and that's all there is written in the reply to the post, it's leaving a bad taste in my mouth, especially in the single mom forum. Because I know very well that my dd would watch less tv, if she lived in a 2 parent home. I might not be as tired, and my house might be cleaner as well if dd lived in a 2 parent home. But it isn't, and we're all doing the best we can, so lets maybe spread some love, and suggestions.









*Hi Janna and everyone else:*

I am the OP. Maybe I can clear this up a bit!









I am totally open to everyone's advice and opinions. When I posted with the title "Is TV Evil," I intended to catch attention and get people to discuss the idea in general, as well as to respond to my own situation. I did want to hear what people thought about TV, but I also wanted to make clear the reasons I was letting him watch TV. I was simply too tired and too impatient (at times), and that hour or so of TV had started to become a crutch.

It has been a month or so (or maybe longer) that I've been letting him watch a little TV. He watches usually 30 min of Sesame Street and 30 minutes of Bob the Builder. After that, I try to engage him in another activity. I still wish he didn't watch ANY TV and I still feel guilty about it, but since I monitor it so closely, I am not feeling too bad. It provides us such a nice, quiet, relaxing time in our morning. If I lived somewhere where I could take him to do some activity, I might try to get us out of the house more, but the nearest place to do anything really fun is 90 minutes away, so we only do that once a week or so. I do try to get him outside for an hour a day, most days, and we also do a lot of running around inside (playing hide and seek and other games), dancing, coloring, play-doh, and other activities. My attention is on him 99% of the time, and I participate in his TV watching as well, with the exception of a few times when I have spent five minutes putting some dishes away.

The grandparents are still occasionally showing him TV when I'd prefer they wouldn't. I did get him some Sesame Street DVDs and told them that if they feel they absolutely HAVE TO, they can put it on for 30 minutes, but NO ADULT TV. They get upset about that a bit because they feel like this is their home and they should get to watch what they want. If I were here when they did this, I'd take him upstairs or somewhere else, but they do it when I am at work, so I can't do anything about it. I think they are getting a little better though. They get worn out too (they are both almost 60 years old) and want him to just sit on the couch and veg for a while. They both work full-time and I work part-time (two nights a week with the rest of the work done at home since I am a college teacher), so we are all tired. They work all day then watch him until I get home at 11pm. (I commute to work; it's a three-hour round-trip!)

So, that's the update.

Thanks so much for your concern about whether you all were addressing my question. I really appreciate it!









I've really appreciated hearing everyone's opinions. BTW, the term "evil" was meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek, as in "Is TV terrible and something that should be avoided at all costs?"not questioning whether TV is of the devil or the absolute worst thing in our society (though some people might argue it is).

Cheers!


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

To Holly, the OP:

With respect to the kind of TV, I actually prefer *adult TV* for children. To me, Sesame Street is _awful_, because the subject matter changes every 2 minutes or so, which is even more detrimental to a child's concentration span than regular television. Cartoons are often violent and even if not intentionally violent, children do not understand that things that cartoons can do, real people can't. Why not put your child in front of a nature show, instead? Or sports? My mom was watching figure skating one day and my daughter caught a glimpse of it. She was amazed and tried to imitate what the skaters were doing.

Good luck, in any event.
Caroline


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

I just want to say something about those nature shows.

My dh is a biologist and was a science educator for kids for a long time. He is very much against nature shows. Why? On TV "nature" is almost always portrayed as something really cool and exotic and far away. The aforementioned polar bears. Giant snakes. Grizzlies. Gators! Etc.

He says that watching these shows ruins lots of kids for the real nature they're likely to encounter all around them or in the woods nearby. They don't get excited about frogs and salamanders and moss when their expectation of "nature" is of something all pumped up and dangerous or big like a cobra or a grizzly bear. He says that these kids have a real lack of interest in anything in the great outdoors that isn't flashy and jazzy. A garter snake doesn't cut it for them, anymore.

Now, I'm sure this isn't all kids, but I really do see his point. We don't have a tv, but we do watch those nature shows at the il's house now and then. The way they have all that scary, foreboding music, making the scene with the snake stalking its prey like an exciting movie...I can see how after that, looking at the dew on the ferns just kind of pales in comparison.


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## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
I just want to say something about those nature shows.

My dh is a biologist and was a science educator for kids for a long time. He is very much against nature shows. Why? On TV "nature" is almost always portrayed as something really cool and exotic and far away. The aforementioned polar bears. Giant snakes. Grizzlies. Gators! Etc.

He says that watching these shows ruins lots of kids for the real nature they're likely to encounter all around them or in the woods nearby. They don't get excited about frogs and salamanders and moss when their expectation of "nature" is of something all pumped up and dangerous or big like a cobra or a grizzly bear. He says that these kids have a real lack of interest in anything in the great outdoors that isn't flashy and jazzy. A garter snake doesn't cut it for them, anymore.

Now, I'm sure this isn't all kids, but I really do see his point. We don't have a tv, but we do watch those nature shows at the il's house now and then. The way they have all that scary, foreboding music, making the scene with the snake stalking its prey like an exciting movie...I can see how after that, looking at the dew on the ferns just kind of pales in comparison.

VERY good point


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## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

zinemama - what an interesting perspective - thanks for sharing!
peace,
robyn


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

YES--nature shows are exactly that-- 'shows!" Real nature just isn't the way it is on nature shows, which tend to create very human-syle dramas, courtships etc...and I think they can lead kids who don't actually go outside that much to believe things about animals etc. that aren't the case.

Anyway. I am also a single mom, and one of the huge reasons I don't have TV (and almost always regret the few times I show a video) is that these actually make life HARDER for me, not easier! The reason is that once my son sees a video even once, he will ask for it again if anything reminds him of it. If he knew we could watch TV at our house, he would be constantly asking about it and it would ruin our peace.

I once, waiting in the ER with my mom when she was injured, showed him some short Pixar films from their web site on my laptop. I wish I had NEVER done that, because now, every single time he sees my computer, he wants to watch them and we have to argue about it. If he had never seen them, I would not be spending time discussing it.

It's the same reason why I don't ever buy him candy or sweets or junk food. (A babysitter gave him ice cream and so now I do get him that sometimes.) If he knew it existed, every time we went to the store he'd be begging for it and (again) I would have to make him sad by telling him No. As it is (knock on wood) it NEVER comes up. Aaah. Peace.

Not having TV means that I never have to spend time fighting with him about TV. Although I hate most TV for children, I also made the no-TV decision to make my life easier--and I really think it has. (Not to mention that he also does not ask me to buy him character-related toys, except for Thomas--which is the one kids' video that I show him sometimes.)

I know this won't last forever--he's 4 now. (though I have seriously considered homeschooling for exactly this reason--to prevent him from peer overexposure to mass media culture and all the crap you are pushed to buy that goes with it.) But I am going to keep it up for as long as I can.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Regarding nature shows - I realize that it might not be the perfect option but I guess my point was that I actually believe that so-called children's television is not so great in general - with the possible exception of shows like Mr. Rogers. Most children's shows serve to limit a child's concentration, especially cartoons. If not nature shows, then what about sports?


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## catnip (Mar 25, 2002)

Here's another idea, and it may not be practical for some, but what about making a video of a relative that lives in another city reading some of your child's favorite stories?


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