# ungrateful



## boobybunny (Jun 28, 2005)

We celebrate the solstice, Kris Kringle comes Solstice eve and Solstice day is spent doing things that most families do on Xmas eve and day. We do this for a number of reasons, one being that our older children are part of a blended family that the other side is evangelical... you get the idea.

This year is a little different, the older generation is having a large gathering at their house Xmas day. The "big" presents are already at the grandparents house, as they are better suited for the wide open spaces of grandma and grandpa's.

Yesterday our older children did not say say thankyou. Not once. The stockings, and smaller gifts were still nice things... remote control airplanes, stereos systems for ipods, clothes.

When their biofather called to make plans, the only thing both the kids were concerned about what "What about the presents at grandma and grandpa's."

Today, I am picking up the kid's bathroom, and I pull out a HUGE garbage bag full of crap from under their sink. It had overflowed from their garbage can and was filling the cavity under their sink.

I have lost it. My husband and I have worked so hard for a decent holiday for the kids this year.. we even gave up exchanging between each other...and nothing, no thank you, no "this is the best ever" Nothing but whining about going to the store to buy buy buy.

How do you raise grateful kids?


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## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

You sound very hurt, and if I was in your shoes I would sit down with your kids and openly discuss how the lack of simple "thank you" and concern with materialistic affected you this season. Honesty is the best policy, right?

I'd considerably lessen the amount I spend on things that are not necessities for the kids for now, and would have a few more "heart to heart" conversations.

I don't think dsd always says thank you when she should, I don't think she always realizes how much effort goes into little every day things as well as big holidays and presents. I'm okay with it. I don't think I truly understood those things at that age either. However, I'd feel very hurt if Christmas morning she didn't acknowledge any of the little things I have done for her to make this holiday special, and we would talk about it (not in the "what an ungrateful kid you are!", but more in "how do you think it would make you feel if..." and "I feel let down because...").

I hope I expressed it well, my thoughts are bit scrambled right now.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

I'm sorry you are feeling so hurt. The mess in the bathroom must have been the last straw.







ITA with Oriole that you need to tell them how you feel.

I'd be mad too and it would pay on my mind til I ended up being a bit mean and saying something like 'Was I mistaken in thinking that xyz gifts would make you happy? I thought you would like them but because you haven't said thank you I am wondering if I got it wrong. Perhaps I can show you kindness and love by doing something else other than buying you stuff; what shall we do?'

And I wouldn't be cleaning up their bathroom any time soon either.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

When I hand my kids something and they don't say "thank you," I say, "Thank you, Mom," to model for them what they should be saying. They get the point and say thank you.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

uhgh - I am sorry I know how disappointing that feels. Lately my ds has been talking about the things he wants for Christmas like its his paycheck - and it got to a point the other day where I just told him I was getting tired of it ... and I had not heard him mention anything about what he was planning to GIVE this season either??


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

I don't know if this is helpful to you, but this is what we did one year.

Oldest DD was about 15 when she spent all autumn saying how she wanted a new bedding set. We busted our butts getting this bedding set, comforter, sheets, curtains, rug, lamp, EVERYTHING. It was EXACTLY what I had seen her showing a girlfriend in a sunday ad.

She opened it all and looked at us, swear to god she says "Is this IT?"

I was STUNNED. I said ummm DD, what on earth do you mean?

She says, "So all I got was room stuff for Christmas? That's IT? I don't get ANYTHING else? Everyone else got stuff to DO!"

I couldn't think of much to say, I was SO hurt. We had really gone all out on this thinking she would be thrilled to have this really 'mature' room set. Boy was I wrong.

She flounced off to her room and pouted for the day. Yeahhhhh THAT went over well. I thought long and hard and made a decision. I packed up the entire set and returned it to the store. I bought her an outfit, a day planner, and a book about 365 things to do when you're bored. When I got home I put them by her door with a note that said "Dear DD, I returned the gifts that were unsatisfying to you. I hope this solved the problem. Love, Mom"

That was the last time we had that issue at our house with either teenager. DS still gives DD (now 18) a hard time about that tantrum she threw over something EVERYONE knew she had said she wanted.


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## boobybunny (Jun 28, 2005)

Cherie.. do you guys have a tree? I just listed our on pay it forward. Not as a punishment, but because it is the day after for us.

I have come to the conclusion that my children have too much. Every year we have done the one big present and then lots of pretty practical stuff as well.

This year the big gifts were a .22 (he hunts with his bio and target shoots with everyday dad and grandpa) The rifle would have stayed out at grandpa's farm in the gun safe, but it would have been his rifle.

My daughter was going to get a kick ass crusier bike. It is the same type as mine, but in a woman's frame and pink with surfer girls stuff on it. http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...so/calypsowmn/ We are a very bike friendly town.

Oh well. The .22 will go into grandpa's gun safe forever and a day. The bike will be dropped off at women's space the morning.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boobybunny* 
How do you raise grateful kids?

I don't know the steps to raise kids to be grateful but I do know that my kids definitely know how to say thank you and show how grateful they are to anyone who gives them something. My kids also love to go out shopping for each other and the rest of the family for birthdays and holidays. They get a lot of joy out of wrapping and giving gifts, even my 6 yr old. Sure, while they're young they are still greedy and deep inside want something good for themselves but we make sure to stay on them and teach them not to be greedy over the years by letting them know when their behavior regarding gifts is wrong and I commend them when they behave properly as well.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

As I recall, that was roughly the age my mother sat me down with a Miss Manners book and instructed me to memorize it. Judith Martin gained a third-generation fan that way!


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## chiromamma (Feb 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
I don't know the steps to raise kids to be grateful but I do know that my kids definitely know how to say thank you and show how grateful they are to anyone who gives them something. My kids also love to go out shopping for each other and the rest of the family for birthdays and holidays. They get a lot of joy out of wrapping and giving gifts, even my 6 yr old. Sure, while they're young they are still greedy and deep inside want something good for themselves but we make sure to stay on them and teach them not to be greedy over the years by letting them know when their behavior regarding gifts is wrong and I commend them when they behave properly as well.

My kids are like this too. Breathtakingly generous at times, and at others, astoundingly self-centered.
Rather than teach gratitude, we strive to cultivate generosity. It seems to come more naturally to kids and is so much more rewarding. We do this by volunteering as a family in our community.
Do we get lots of thank-you's when they open their Chanukah gifts each evening? Last night was book night. DD was thrilled. DS1&2 , not so thrilled. However, yesterday I took them shopping for each other. They were so excited and thoughtful of one another's interests and desires...that meant so much more than the half-hearted acceptence of the books.


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## MamaChicken (Aug 21, 2006)

Honestly, one things that I believe strongly is that kids who learn to give are often the most grateful for what they recieve. The year that things changed for my DS was the year I instituted a new tradition. Before his birthday and before Christmas we go through his room and fill a large box with things to go to goodwill (or the shelter, etc.). As we sort through everything, we talk about how much fun he had with the toys and how much fun someone else will have with them now. We talk about how lucky we are to have more than we need, and how other children don't get as much.

As he opens his gifts, he is very excited and says thank you. We talked to him this year about how we just moved into a new house, bought him a new bed, etc and that he may not get as many toys as he has in the past. I think the the new tradition just opened the lines of communication as well as eliminating clutter.

I will say, one year he didn't want to give anything away. I told him that was fine, these are his things. I also explained that his room is raher small and we can't get many new things if some of the old one's don't move along. Turns out he didn't want to take the time to sort.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I simply DON'T buy my kids so much stuff at holiday time, and I don't try to surprise them with big gifts. Each night of Hanukkah my kids get a $1 coin from me- and that's it.

If we're going to get any big-ticket items, we shop together and I don't tie it to any gift-giving occasions. We talk about how much this item costs vs how much this other item costs- we can afford this one item or several of these smaller items- which do you think is a better investment? Which would you rather have?

Sometimes the kid(s) agree that it's better to get one, more expensive, better quality item. Other times they'd rather sacrifice quality to get something that won't last as long because they're not sure they want it THAT MUCH that it's worth spending the whole budget on. Since they're involved in the financial aspects of the decision, they don't get so greedy or ungrateful- they truly do understand the trade-offs.

For example, with that comforter set, I'd have gone shopping with DD and let her know how much everything cost, and that getting all the details would cover her entire "holiday gift budget." She might have chosen the comforter but not the lamp and the rug, or to keep her old sheets, etc. Or maybe she would have selected a similar but cheaper set. In your situation, she probably had NO CLUE what the entire set ended up costing, because she had no part in the decision.

ETA: I honestly don't see the connection between the trash can and the gift-receiving attitude. Being reminded to do their chores is completely separate from saying "thank you" and having a healthier attitude towards holiday get-togethers with Dad.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Honestly? All of this needs to start a heck of a lot earlier than the teen years. Instead of inundating them with a ton of the newest, best, brightest... you shop judiciously, teach them to be generous of time and money, and teach them manners.

My kids have known for months that this year was going to be tight, and they scaled back their wants accordingly. They've both been working hard to earn some cash of their own so that they could purchase gifts without hitting me up - and have put a lot of thought into what they're giving.

I've done my best to meet their wants, and picked a few things that weren't on there that I know they'd like. And there is no doubt that they will be both happy and grateful.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

mama i think gifts should be about connecting with your child.

when you become so attached to the gift itself you lose the meaning and reason behind gift-giving. to show love and connection. instead of the gift being a gift it becomes a demand. a 'demand' for your child to see how much they are loved.

from the other things you write it seems that you got so mad because this is just one part of the whole issue. that the gift was the straw that broke the camel's back. check and see what YOU need - why do you want to hear the thank you so much. why are you buying them gifts? is it for them, or is it really about you - fulfilling your need for thank you. for acknowledgement of what a great job you did.

and the other thing - as much as i like my child appreciating me - i dont ask her to say thank you to me. thank you is such a lip service. just her accepting is reward enough for me. but sometime later she does come to me when she is in teh throes of 'wonderland' with her toys and tells me how much she appreciates i got that for her. there are many ways of saying thank you. and if they are truly thankful - it always is expressed at some point of time in some way.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

mama i think gifts should be about connecting with your child.

when you become so attached to the gift itself you lose the meaning and reason behind gift-giving. to show love and connection. instead of the gift being a gift it becomes a demand. a 'demand' for your child to see how much they are loved.

from the other things you write it seems that you got so mad because this is just one part of the whole issue. that the gift was the straw that broke the camel's back. check and see what YOU need - why do you want to hear the thank you so much. why are you buying them gifts? is it for them, or is it really about you - fulfilling your need for thank you. for acknowledgement of what a great job you did.

and the other thing - as much as i like my child appreciating me - i dont ask her to say thank you to me. thank you is such a lip service. just her accepting is reward enough for me. but sometime later she does come to me when she is in teh throes of 'wonderland' with her toys and tells me how much she appreciates i got that for her. there are many ways of saying thank you. and if they are truly thankful - it always is expressed at some point of time in some way.


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## chiromamma (Feb 24, 2003)

ITA with all the stuff about teaching wise shopping.
I started shopping at thrift and conignment stores for environmental and health reasons...I get cranky and headachey around all the chemicals used in sizing ad shoes. I also feel that by buying Banana Republic from Savers, I'm not supporting sweatshops. I don't know. I'm sure their are purists who would differ. As my family grew, it became a necessity, still is.
The kids totally get the excitement of finding a high end cashmere sweater at Savers for 5.99. Yes. I did score!
They know how to navigate craigslist, and that luxury items like iPods are saved up for. Both teens bought their own and take incredibly good care of them. DS1 wants an electric guitar. The first places he went were craigslist and Ebay, calculating how much allowance and birthday money he has and what he needs to earn to cover the rest. I was so proud!
We have next door neighbors who are the "millionaires next door". They live very simply in a small ranch, always buy second hand. They are kidless by choice and are surrogate auntie and uncle to my kids. They have never given them a brand new gift. Everything is an amazing find from Savers, The Bookworm (second hand bookstore) or a clothing swap. They are such a shining example of frugality and generosity. Where they put their abundance is part ownership with her brother of a home in Hawaii, their numerous G-d children's education funds, carefully chosen charities and taking my kids out to breakfast every week.
What a gift they are.


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## chiromamma (Feb 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 
mama i think gifts should be about connecting with your child.

when you become so attached to the gift itself you lose the meaning and reason behind gift-giving. to show love and connection. instead of the gift being a gift it becomes a demand. a 'demand' for your child to see how much they are loved.

from the other things you write it seems that you got so mad because this is just one part of the whole issue. that the gift was the straw that broke the camel's back. check and see what YOU need - why do you want to hear the thank you so much. why are you buying them gifts? is it for them, or is it really about you - fulfilling your need for thank you. for acknowledgement of what a great job you did.

and the other thing - as much as i like my child appreciating me - i dont ask her to say thank you to me. thank you is such a lip service. just her accepting is reward enough for me. but sometime later she does come to me when she is in teh throes of 'wonderland' with her toys and tells me how much she appreciates i got that for her. there are many ways of saying thank you. and if they are truly thankful - it always is expressed at some point of time in some way.

Words of wisdom! Thank you.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellevuemama* 
I thought long and hard and made a decision. I packed up the entire set and returned it to the store. I bought her an outfit, a day planner, and a book about 365 things to do when you're bored. When I got home I put them by her door with a note that said "Dear DD, I returned the gifts that were unsatisfying to you. I hope this solved the problem. Love, Mom"


Ouch! I understand your disappointment, but I'm not sure I could have been that harsh in that situation.

meemee is right.......we shouldn't get too attached to the gifts we give.

Ruthla is right, too--dd should have known ahead of time that the bedding set would take the whole holiday gift budget for her.

And chiromamma is right--kids can be both incredibly generous and self-centered at the same time. It's just part of growing up. We need to celebrate their generosity and (gently) help them get past self-centeredness.

My ds (6) said the other day, "As long as I get a white Christmas (snow), I'll be happy!"


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## boobybunny (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 

from the other things you write it seems that you got so mad because this is just one part of the whole issue. that the gift was the straw that broke the camel's back. *check and see what YOU need - why do you want to hear the thank you so much. why are you buying them gifts? is it for them, or is it really about you - fulfilling your need for thank you. for acknowledgement of what a great job you did.*

.

So I am at fault because I wanted a thankyou? That I am somehow unfulfilled and needing them to validate me. Sorry, but you are very wrong. I am not "mad" I am disapointed, frustrated, not mad. I am disapointed in the behavior of our children. They have been taught better than that. This is a family where please and thankyou are part of our everyday vocabulary, where kindness for others is taught, shown and modeled.

The lack of gratitude for the solstice gifts really is the end of a very selfish and lazy stretch of time for them. Taking shortcuts on their parts of what keeps this household running, treating friends like crap and treating parents like ATMs.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boobybunny* 
So I am at fault because I wanted a thankyou? That I am somehow unfulfilled and needing them to validate me. Sorry, but you are very wrong. I am not "mad" I am disapointed, frustrated, not mad. I am disapointed in the behavior of our children. They have been taught better than that. This is a family where please and thankyou are part of our everyday vocabulary, where kindness for others is taught, shown and modeled.

The lack of gratitude for the solstice gifts really is the end of a very selfish and lazy stretch of time for them. Taking shortcuts on their parts of what keeps this household running, treating friends like crap and treating parents like ATMs.











They have been taught better and will display better - it just might not be today, yk?

If you think thye have been on a negative stretch - ask yourself how you can help them move past this. Many ideas come to mind (pick what works!)Volunteer work, more chores, explaining budgets, strict allowances, a job of some sort, less creen time, journalling, getting outside, pets.....

Kathy


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

well i guess i was talking about my experience. whenever i find some action of my dd aggravates me to deep feeling of hurt, when i see 'wrongness' in everything she does, i usually discover it is all about me - not about her at all. and the moment that happens i have clarity. to see the situation for what it is. either i am wrong in how i view things, or i find a workable solution to what is going wrong.

and yes i really do want you to look at what is truly going on for you. look at the words you are using for your children. selfish, lazy. they use their friends and parents. taking shortcuts. some of it of course is normal - the short cuts.

but if you can really identify what is bugging u - what exactly is making them appear lazy - you can be an observer and find a solution.

why this is so painful for me - is because the same kinda situation happened to me. those were v. painful years for all of us because we lost connection.

and it drove a wedge between my mommy and me that has taken over 20 years for me to just recover from the hurt leave alone heal. i would hate that to happen to you. its v. painful for everyone involved.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boobybunny* 
My husband and I have worked so hard for a decent holiday for the kids this year.. we even gave up exchanging between each other...and nothing, no thank you, no "this is the best ever" Nothing but whining about going to the store to buy buy buy.

Do they know this? My two are well aware of how hard I work to provide for us throughout the year, and therefore also understand that it's not easy to find extra at the holidays. They see me sacrifice on any number of levels to provide extras for them. On the other hand, their Dad is doing fairly well - and they are none too shy to take full advantage of that. As my younger one said to me at one point - "We like Dad because he buys us stuff. We love you because you take care of us." There we are.

You posted that "Please" and "Thank You" are standard parts of their vocabulary, and kindness towards others is a part of life. But... are they simply parroted, or do the kids really "get it"? Just saying the words is meaningless. When you say it to them - is it meant? Or is it simply said because you're supposed to say it?


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boobybunny* 
So I am at fault because I wanted a thankyou? That I am somehow unfulfilled and needing them to validate me. Sorry, but you are very wrong. I am not "mad" I am disapointed, frustrated, not mad. I am disapointed in the behavior of our children. They have been taught better than that. This is a family where please and thankyou are part of our everyday vocabulary, where kindness for others is taught, shown and modeled.

The lack of gratitude for the solstice gifts really is the end of a very selfish and lazy stretch of time for them. Taking shortcuts on their parts of what keeps this household running, treating friends like crap and treating parents like ATMs.









:


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Intereseting thread. My kids have been taught how to behave, but they have lapses when I am shocked and saddened by their behavior. I think that sometimes it slides gradually and because they are small lapses, I just let them slide and chock it off as a "bad day," but then some thing really big happens and I realize that it isn't just a bad day, it is a pattern of behavior that needs to be corrected.

I can't help but think that this is what is going on for the OP. Her kids have been taught better, they usually help out and treat others well, and I'm guessing that overall they are great kids. Lately, though, not so much.

It's just a correction. Once they reminded, they will quickly come around. This behavoir is temporary.

I really think this is more likely to happen in families where children are allowed to have bad days and display their full range of emotions, because parents who value their children having space to be true to themselves are much less likely to ride their kids over every little infraction.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

If it helps to know you aren't alone, a friend of mine was complaining today about her teenager doing the same thing this year!


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## enkmom (Aug 30, 2004)

I noticed my son being quite condescending about gifts this year (he's 18). The things he asked for were out of reach for his grandparents and his aunt to purchase for him, and we was not coming up with any other ideas. I had the opportunity to help with the Salvation Army angel tree, and I brought him along to help pass out the gifts. Seeing how grateful these people were to get a food basket, let alone a toy or two for their children, was an eye-opening experience (for him and for me). We had a talk afterward about how lucky he really was, and he ditched his attitude in a big hurry.

I know how you feel, boobybunny. I also have been modeling gratitude, sincerity, and family teamwork since they were born. To have my son turn up his nose at what his family could provide for him hurt, and I was ashamed. To see hundreds of dollars worth of clothes or CD's on my daughter's floor being walked on is infuriating. Linda on the move is right, though. These are temporary things; the children have been taught better, and usually do better. This too shall pass, but it sure is frustrating while you are in the middle of it.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Sometimes I think our children (and we) get into ruts that we can't get out of without some major practical action happening. Just waiting for a change to happen or waiting for it to pass doesn't always work or we don't have the patience to just let that happen because it is making our lives difficult or someone unhappy.

What others have suggested about finding ways to help others or see how living with less 'stuff' can be sound good. As you feel that this is a long stretch of this kind of behaviour and it is bugging you more than them perhaps it will be down to you to do something to bump you all out of this rut. Don't let this fester to the extent that it taints your everyday interactions. Talk about this together and make a plan to move forward with some change in all your actions.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

You have to start when they are very little. I always coached mine with things to say as they opened presents. And gave them phrases for when they weren't sure what it was or if they'd use it. My children at 3 and 4 years old could say "this is interesting, thank you" to a random grandparent gift.

Just discussed this with my 15 year old dd. She was shocked and knew that if she had tried that ungrateful stuff... I probably would have snatched her gifts up to return to the store. You just do not treat anyone that way, but most especially a parent.

BTW, they should be getting the trash out of their own bathroom, too.


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## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
Just discussed this with my 15 year old dd. She was shocked and knew that if she had tried that ungrateful stuff... I probably would have snatched her gifts up to return to the store. You just do not treat anyone that way, but most especially a parent.

I agree 100%. An ungrateful attitude is uncalled for, especially with parents and family. If a gift I've chosen for you is so below your minimum specs, it will be taken back and not replaced. Sorry to have offended you so mightily, your royal highness!

My DD is 6 and is not materially indulged nor raised to feel "entitled." I got her a lovely book for Christmas. Her comment upon opening it: "Did you just take this off my book shelf and wrap it?" Um, no, but that's a great idea for next year. After she opened all her gifts, she said, "so where are all the other toys?" I can see we've got some attitude adjustments to make in 2009!


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

This reminds me of the year my DH and were first together, struggling financially because he was divorced and had been taken to the cleaners, and I pieced together some gifts for his kids from the thrift store. His six-year old son's reaction? "Can you get us better presents next year?"

What really hurt was that the kids had FOUR Christmases -- our house, their mom, DH's family and their mom's family -- and that they got TONS of flashy presents at every other house. So it's not like they only got a few sad used presents or anything.

That stepson is now 18 and although he would not dare say anything at this point, I can tell he expected more than the $50 we gave him (and again, he got HUNDREDS of dollars everywhere else, probably $500 or more). And he didn't buy gifts for me or his dad or our son (his little brother).


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

gawd, this is sad...i'm so not looking forward to having a teen!








my ds is nearly 8. i was honestly worried, last night, when i put all the stuff under the tree-- i had thought, wrapping it, that i had gone overboard, even though most of it came from thrift stores, and when it was all laid out, it looked woefully small and sad. but he was astounded and said he had way too much (me: "shall i take some back?"







him: "NO!"







) and that i was the best mom in the world and what a great Christmas it was.
















very often, he is as selfish and self-centered as can be. and a pack-rat, too; won't get rid of *anything*. it made me feel really humble and good that he loved each and every thing









i don't think taking the bedding set back was too harsh at all. i might have done the same thing. but i think there is a lesson here: during the next year, go over the budget and do some shopping together. discuss feelings, openly ("i felt hurt and disrespected when you _____").

also, i started way early, before thanksgiving, with ds, saying things like "what's on your Give List this year?" as well as "what's on your Wish List?" and things like "who are you getting gifts for? what about <name>?" it got him thinking about giving. also i'd periodically say things like "do you have one place to put all your gifts that you're giving? so you can keep track of them? let me know if you need to use the wrapping paper. i'll be happy to help you wrap".
you know, just planting seeds.
also we've gone over and over things like "even if you don't like a gift, you have to *show* that you like it-- find something nice to say about it. the person who picked it out for you wants to see that they did a good job". and i'd remind him of how excited he gets in anticipation of me opening a gift from him. and how much other people feel the same way. and we'd actually practice. when he was younger, we did that. actually wrapped things and acted it out, like a play.
i know it's too late to do things like that with teens, but that's what i'm doing now, in hopes (*cross fingers*) of avoiding this very kind of scene!

hugs, mama. i'm sure you've done everything you could, and that they are just going through a phase.


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## mar123 (Apr 14, 2008)

I agree that being a grateful child must start very early. My kids love to give; my son's favorite thing to do on Halloween is stay home and hand out the candy. We give often to others and they love it. When a child loves to give, they become more grateful of receiving.

I don't think you and your dh should have given up gifts to each other to provide a nicer holiday for them. This is the type of thing that sets up an entitlement mentality. Even when money is very scarce, dh and I take the kids out separately to buy gifts for the other person. It might be a $5 nightgown from Wal Mart for me, but the kids are so excited about giving. We do a secret Santa just among the 5 of us and the kids have to use their own money. They LOVE doing this.

Normally, they get anywhere from 3-6 gifts from us for Christmas. This year we got all of them a Wii, so each child had a controller to open and then the Wii. Once it was opened and they got finished jumping up and down and screaming Thank you, the next words out of their mouths were, "Let's give Daddy his present now!!" It is my favorite part of the whole video.


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## boobybunny (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 
Intereseting thread. My kids have been taught how to behave, but they have lapses when I am shocked and saddened by their behavior. I think that sometimes it slides gradually and because they are small lapses, I just let them slide and chock it off as a "bad day," but then some thing really big happens and I realize that it isn't just a bad day, it is a pattern of behavior that needs to be corrected.

I can't help but think that this is what is going on for the OP. Her kids have been taught better, they usually help out and treat others well, and I'm guessing that overall they are great kids. Lately, though, not so much.

It's just a correction. Once they reminded, they will quickly come around. This behavoir is temporary.

I really think this is more likely to happen in families where children are allowed to have bad days and display their full range of emotions, because parents who value their children having space to be true to themselves are much less likely to ride their kids over every little infraction.

I think I love you







:

This is really what I think (hope) is going on. It is reassuring to hear that other kiddos are going through this same stuff. They are at their bio dad's house... we will see how is goes when they get home. Things were already much better by the time they left for his house yesterday morning.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boobybunny* 
I think I love you







:









:

I think that as our kids get older, it gets more difficult to hit the nail of the head with the perfect present. When they are really little, they like the wrapping paper more than they toy, then they like nice simple toys, and then kinda pricy toys, and then......

it gets fuzzier.

Sometimes we will nail it, and sometimes we won't. Teaching our kids how to react gracefully when they aren't thrilled with their gift(s) may be a totally new skill for them. And at some point we have to decide if we want them to be honest but polite at the same time, or just to lie to us. I think we have a choice as parents. I think that in order to make space for our kids to be honest, we have to accept that they may not love what we got them. Teaching someone *honestly with grace* is far more difficult that teaching a child to say "thank you."

Many adults struggle with how to be honest and true to themselves while respecting the feelings of others, so I don't see how expecting teenagers (with notoriously poor impulse control) to have this down pat is realistic. When they say things that hurt our feelings, we can let them know how they've made us feel, and teach them ways of conveying their feelings without being so hurtful.

I think that it is possible to to help children develop gratitude all year long. One of our family rituals is to say something that we are grateful for when we sit down to eat dinner together. It can be anything, and often the things we are grateful for aren't material things.


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## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maiasaura* 
also, i started way early, before thanksgiving, with ds, saying things like "what's on your Give List this year?" as well as "what's on your Wish List?"

[lightbulb-going-on-moment!] I love the "give list" and "wish list" idea. That is such a perfect fit for my DD. Thanks so much for that idea.


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

yay! i love when my stuff can help people







:
i dunno, i just came up with it spur-of-the-moment like. we have this ongoing Wish List (i have one, too), which idea someone gave me ages ago. i made it clear when we first implemented it that it is not a *get* list but a *wish* list. but it does immediately relieve the "gimme's" when we are out! "you can put it on your wish list" goes a long way towards that end. and now, he's old enough that he can save for things on his list. and sometimes, we both find that things that seemed like we have to have them NOW, once on the list for awhile, become less important








i LOVE the wish list. and the give list, now, too


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 
well i guess i was talking about my experience. whenever i find some action of my dd aggravates me to deep feeling of hurt, when i see 'wrongness' in everything she does, i usually discover it is all about me - not about her at all. and the moment that happens i have clarity. to see the situation for what it is. either i am wrong in how i view things, or i find a workable solution to what is going wrong.
.

I think this is wise


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## yaM yaM (Nov 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 
well i guess i was talking about my experience. whenever i find some action of my dd aggravates me to deep feeling of hurt, when i see 'wrongness' in everything she does, i usually discover it is all about me - not about her at all. and the moment that happens i have clarity. to see the situation for what it is. either i am wrong in how i view things, or i find a workable solution to what is going wrong.

and yes i really do want you to look at what is truly going on for you. look at the words you are using for your children. selfish, lazy. they use their friends and parents. taking shortcuts. some of it of course is normal - the short cuts.

but if you can really identify what is bugging u - what exactly is making them appear lazy - you can be an observer and find a solution.

why this is so painful for me - is because the same kinda situation happened to me. those were v. painful years for all of us because we lost connection.

and it drove a wedge between my mommy and me that has taken over 20 years for me to just recover from the hurt leave alone heal. i would hate that to happen to you. its v. painful for everyone involved.


Oh, meemee, my own experience so much mirrors what you have said.

For me, giving a gift to someone is way more for _me_ -- because I enjoy the act of giving. It feels good, in and of itself. And, yes, I value the receiver's response, but not because I'm needing something in particular from them. It's more because of an intention of effectiveness -- if the gift I give doesn't serve them, then I'd want to be more effective next time. Maybe my efforts to be more effective would be to get blunt with the receiver and ask for more specifics of what they want or if they even want anything at all from me. I do communicate this way with my children. But I see the power of their happiness as theirs, just like my happiness is within my power.

And, yes, the painful triggers I experience when mothering my children are direct links to unresolved pain from my own childhood, I believe. I, too, had a decades-long journey to peace within my relationship with my mother and it was already too late in an interpersonal sense as she passed away just as the clarity was coming to us. And the loss of connection that occurred when I was a teen was far greater than the loss of connection that occurred even with her death in my adult life. I let that experience guide me as a mother to my teen, now.

Sometimes, it's all we can do just to show up as witness to our experience. Just to notice. Be gentle with yourself, dear mama.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boobybunny* 
Cherie.. do you guys have a tree? I just listed our on pay it forward. Not as a punishment, but because it is the day after for us.

I have come to the conclusion that my children have too much. Every year we have done the one big present and then lots of pretty practical stuff as well.


Thanks for the offer! we got one the day before







and I have been off line since tuesday (not at work yea!)

I think I have set myself up for failure by wanting to give my kids so much. My mother used to complain that I was spoiling them with too many gifts at christmas .. and she was right .. and it was so easy when they were little .. dollar gifts and thrift store items ... a ball used to be such a treasured gift! I would go crazy and as the kids got older and their wants got more expensive the pile under the tree got smaller.

I used to say that its a good thing I don't have any money because my kids would be spoiled rotten lol ...

One year I took ds to payless shoes and let him pick out any pair he wanted!! he was so happy







- yea that wouldn't fly anymore ...

I don't know.. I think these guys just need to be reminded sometimes ... like just say .. "hey you know what that didn't feel good" - my kids will usually hear it when I say it from the heart


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## dhammamama (Mar 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 







:

I think that as our kids get older, it gets more difficult to hit the nail of the head with the perfect present. When they are really little, they like the wrapping paper more than they toy, then they like nice simple toys, and then kinda pricy toys, and then......

it gets fuzzier.

Sometimes we will nail it, and sometimes we won't. Teaching our kids how to react gracefully when they aren't thrilled with their gift(s) may be a totally new skill for them. And at some point we have to decide if we want them to be honest but polite at the same time, or just to lie to us. I think we have a choice as parents. I think that in order to make space for our kids to be honest, we have to accept that they may not love what we got them. Teaching someone *honestly with grace* is far more difficult that teaching a child to say "thank you."

Many adults struggle with how to be honest and true to themselves while respecting the feelings of others, so I don't see how expecting teenagers (with notoriously poor impulse control) to have this down pat is realistic. When they say things that hurt our feelings, we can let them know how they've made us feel, and teach them ways of conveying their feelings without being so hurtful.

I think that it is possible to to help children develop gratitude all year long. One of our family rituals is to say something that we are grateful for when we sit down to eat dinner together. It can be anything, and often the things we are grateful for aren't material things.

Great post- thank you!


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## Lazy Gardens (Dec 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellevuemama* 
She flounced off to her room and pouted for the day. Yeahhhhh THAT went over well. I thought long and hard and made a decision. I packed up the entire set and returned it to the store. I bought her an outfit, a day planner, and a book about 365 things to do when you're bored. When I got home I put them by her door with a note that said "Dear DD, I returned the gifts that were unsatisfying to you. I hope this solved the problem. Love, Mom"










:








: We bow to your wisdom.


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

yep. me too. and i bet (hope!) that she won't do anything like that again!


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

:

Y'all are too much









The thing is, Of Course we raised them to be appreciative, Of Course we modeled generosity and thinking of others, OF COURSE we shared our budget issues with them, yada yada yada.

However.

Sometimes teens/preteens are just self centered and thoughtless. Period.

It doesn't mean I, or anyone else, TAUGHT them to be like this. It doesn't mean there was some magical thing we did or didn't do that created this asinine thought process in their thick little skulls. It JUST means they are being selfish and thoughtless. It's important to me that my kids don't ever think that's an appropriate attitude to have towards anyone who is choosing a gift for them. So, a little reality check sometimes does wonders for attitude adjustments. That's why I didn't take it back and get her NOTHING 'just to prove the point'. Now, for the folks that disagree with how I handled it, I will just say that had she thanked us for the gifts and later, politely, kindly, lovingly, whatever, come and said hey mom, dad, I'd really prefer if we could exchange a couple of these room things for XYZ? We'd have been FINE as it would have been handled graciously, with gratitude, and respect.

And no...she NEVER did that again. Ever.
Bellevuemama


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellevuemama* 







:

So, a little reality check sometimes does wonders for attitude adjustments. That's why I didn't take it back and get her NOTHING 'just to prove the point'. Now, for the folks that disagree with how I handled it, I will just say that had she thanked us for the gifts and later, politely, kindly, lovingly, whatever, come and said hey mom, dad, I'd really prefer if we could exchange a couple of these room things for XYZ? We'd have been FINE as it would have been handled graciously, with gratitude, and respect.

And no...she NEVER did that again. Ever.









i bet she didn't! i just think the way you handled it was flippin' brilliant. i hope if it ever happens in my house, i will remember to steal it







my ds is only almost 8 at the moment, though, so i have (hopefully) a while to go before i get it that badly! you never know, though, anymore. he could flip on me any moment *cross fingers he doesn't*!


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## Labbemama (May 23, 2008)

I think my kids are pretty grateful. We did struggle this year financially and we didn't spend much of our own money on the kids. Most of it was pooled from grandparents and I asked the kids would you rather have one big present say worth $100 or several smaller nice presents?

I think they were happy with less this year. I haven't heard any grumbling other than what my mom got them and my mom, well she's one of those ppl who would wrap up just about anything, however shoddy.

Erbear got two irregular tops with extra large bodies and ultra small necks. She can't squeeze her head thru without a LOT of effort. She did cry when trying it on that it was made wrong and her head was stuck. I was going to shh her but then I thought No grandma probably needs to hear what she's been doing to ppl all these years. I am proud my kids have healthy boundaries. It's not like she can't afford to just buy the kids a shirt...but she has to buy them an irregular clearance shirt with no hope of being returned. Sometimes you call it like you see it. LOL.

Dh got some pjs that he did not like. Just nice Hanes cotton blue pjs. I considered trying them on. They were so soft. LOL. So He said to me "great-







Old man pjs" I just wanted to say but you are an OLD man.









Instead I said, that was a lot of money to the giver -my sister-"she probably just wanted to make sure you were DECENT Christmas morning."

And then I used the store credit and got myself some clearance pjs! Hehe. Ingrate. Serves him right. I'm really mad he said that. There's still enough credit for him to get a pair of the pj pants he likes. If he hates them so much he could stand in the exchange line. I was gonna suprise him with some pj pants but forget it. I'm glad my kids didn't hear it. a poor example he is.

It really annoys me because I work with kids who might not have gotten anything for Christmas. KWIM?

My oldest though, she really gets it. She went to school TWO saturdays in a row, getting up at 6 a.m. to paint rocking animals for toys for tots.  They made 503 rocking horses and rocking dinosaurs. Next year they want to do 1,000! (Getting up before noon is a real sacrifice for her.)


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## awood11 (Jan 21, 2007)

I just wanted to add to everyone's very wise comments. Sometimes, when dealing with blended families it's hard to understand the financial differences. You say, "I got you these gifts to show how much I love you and think about you." Well, if it's less gifts than Dad gives, does that mean you love them less? Or if it's less than last year, has the love changed?

We all know the answer to these is absolutely not, but sometimes kids minds don't work like we think they should.


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## kolleen9 (May 27, 2006)

Honestly, I'm just so DONE with the consumeristic mentality that we model for our kids by trying to give them everything that we didn't have.

After enough bi-yearly decluttering sessions that sometimes took two or three days, my son realizes how much junk and environmental waste is generated by "wanting" too much.

This year we went to see Cirque du Soleil and he got a few items that he needed. His fave was the cheap little earphones he received because his ear buds were broken for months.

It takes discipline, but moving away from the "stuff" was a big freedom for all of us.

Kolleen


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## sharon.gmc (Nov 17, 2008)

That is so hurtful. I can relate. I think a lot of teens today are like that. I'm also at lost.

Thank you for the tips, fellow moms!


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