# forced bra wearing?-updates pg. 5 and 7



## Nankay

I'm not sure how I feel about all this so I'm looking to you all for some different perspectives. My dd is 11 and developing. She has boobs, but not full grown adult sized. We bought a couple of bras at her request this past summer, but she hasn't worn them very much at all. Today we got a note from her teacher saying that dd needs to wear a bra or undershirt everyday.

My knee jerk reaction is "Who are you to tell me and dd what to wear in regards to underwear?" I mean, the weather has been chilly, so dd wears long sleeves, dark, thicker cotton tops/sweatshirts. No halters, no see thrus etc. What the heck is showing that needs to be covered? I don't wear a bra everyday and I'm fairly hefty so maybe I'm missing something. It's not like she's not wearing deod. and stinking up the room.
What's next, come spring a note telling me we have to have her pits and legs shaved?
Anyway, I tend to get pissy and rebellious when told I "have ' to do something, so I need an outside point of view.


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## Pandora114

even with non-see through shirts, a stiff breeze can make the nipples become erect and stick out through the shirt, and cause somewhat of a disruption in the class.

You know, pubescent boys

HOOOOOOOO

HAAAAAAAAAA


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## aniT

I think it would really depend on what size your child is.

Say if she wears an A that is small and many adults that wear A's dont even wear bra's. But if the child wears a B or bigger, in my opionion she should be wearing a bra. On that note however, I don't think it is the schools business to tell you so. I mean a bra or undershirt? As long as her shirts are not see through what is an undershirt going to acomplish?







:

You might try talking to the teacher to find out where she is coming from and go from there. Then if you still feel she has crossed the line, go from there.


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## aniT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pandora114*
even with non-see through shirts, a stiff breeze can make the nipples become erect and stick out through the shirt, and cause somewhat of a disruption in the class.

You know, pubescent boys

HOOOOOOOO

HAAAAAAAAAA

How is a bra going to prevent this? Erect nipples are still visable through bras.


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## Pandora114

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT*
How is a bra going to prevent this? Erect nipples are still visable through bras.

not usually, especially if the shirt is thick too. it's one more barrier of cotton pretty much...


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

No way in this world would I go along with this.







: as long as you cant see thru her clothing it is not a issue. If she dosnt want to wear one no way would I make her. In my opinion bra's are just short of torture devices and a man made invention with no real value. And I would be calling that teacher ASAP and talking with her and the principle. Geez I am PO'ed on your behalf here.







:

Also even if she is a double D she shouldnt have to wear a bra if she dosnt want to.


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## Momof3inMI

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nankay*
Anyway, I tend to get pissy and rebellious when told I "have ' to do something, so I need an outside point of view.









: Right there with you on that!







:
It is yours and your childs choice on what to wear or not to wear. Not the schools, expecially if it has to do with undergarments.Size has nothing to do with it! If she feels like not wanting to have a bra on so be it. I don't think I've see a mandate on bra wearing yet.








As for the boys.... How are they going to handle them when a part of them starts sticking out in class







:.
Can't wait to see what they want them to wear.... A jock all of the time?!
Good luck. Please keep us informed.


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## Nankay

I wonder what would happen if I showed up to talk with the teacher wearing shorts and a sleeveless shirt in all my braless, unshaven self? Yep, that's me--a woman with hair and boobs..deal with it.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

That is what I would do







but I am just rebellious that way


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## aniT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pandora114*
not usually, especially if the shirt is thick too. it's one more barrier of cotton pretty much...

Unless the bra is padded, it has been my experiance that it still shows thorugh.


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## alegna

What kind of school is this? I would guess that the teacher has no authority to require this. Is it in the school's dress code? I would go have a fit.

-Angela


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## Storm Bride

Personally, I'd talk to the teacher and find out why she made the demand. _If_ I agreed with her reasoning (I doubt that I would), I'd talk to dd and explain the situation. But, there's no way I'd make my child wear a bra if she didn't want to, just because a teacher told me that she "had" to do so.


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## Persephone

As a person with larger than DD (I don't know what size I am, since I don't wear bras, but I know my biggest bras don't fit anymore!







) braless person, I really don't think she should be made to wear a bra! NIpples do show through, and that might attract some attention, and attention from boys about something like that at her age might be painful. So, I would tell her that, and suggest she wear a bra to make HER feel more comfortable. But I would never MAKE her wear one if she didn't want to. And if the teacher still hassled her about it, I'd have a parent teacher conference. Ahem.

(BTW, when I was pg, I had a shirt with a built in padded underwire bra, and my nipples STILL stuck out of that!!!







: After that, I said, screw it, if they're going to show through the armor plated shirt, they're gonna show through anything, and gave up.)


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## mamaofthreecats

i've always hated bras. once in a while i'd through one on, even still. bras should be a choice. i get sick of people telling me they're going to sag. thats about as annoying as people nagging about not circing my son. and why would anyone really care if they sagged anyway? they're MY boobs. and teenage boys are going to be horney no matter what. i never really cared what people thought of me, and i still don't. actually, i don't recall ever really being picked on in high school for being the way i was. we had a pretty cool student body.


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## mamaofthreecats

oops, i meant to say that i'd THROW one on, not THROUGH one on


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## l_olive

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pandora114*
not usually, especially if the shirt is thick too. it's one more barrier of cotton pretty much...

Ummm... I had a boyfriend once who told me that I was the only girl he knew who could nip out a down coat.









--Olive


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## mommyto3girls

Okay, yet another post for tina to hate me for









Generally, school dress codes have "appropriate undergarments" listed on it. This includes the banning of visible panties, bras, boxers. It also includes wearing appropriate undergarments. All too often we get girls at school where you can see the shape of not just the nipple, but the entire areola. This is disruptive to the learning environment. Besides that, someone mentioned what will boys do if they happen to have a certain piece of their anatomy at attention. Do you really want it to be the sight of your braless daughter's breasts to be the cause of that?

Now, I'm not saying to force her to wear a bra, but an undershirt or thourough inspection of what she looks like through her shirt each day, may be in order. If for no other reason than to be sure the boys aren't stocking up on memories of her chest for leter on!


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyto3girls*
Okay, yet another post for tina to hate me for









Generally, school dress codes have "appropriate undergarments" listed on it. This includes the banning of visible panties, bras, boxers. It also includes wearing appropriate undergarments. All too often we get girls at school where you can see the shape of not just the nipple, but the entire areola. This is disruptive to the learning environment. Besides that, someone mentioned what will boys do if they happen to have a certain piece of their anatomy at attention. Do you really want it to be the sight of your braless daughter's breasts to be the cause of that?

Oh, please! Do you actually believe that a 13-year-old boy is going to get an erection if a girl in his class is braless that he wouldn't get, anyway?? I can remember a boy in my 7th grade class getting up to do a presentation, and he had one. Where he'd been sitting, he couldn't see _any_ of the girls, regardless of what they were wearing. Even if it were dependent on getting a glimpse of a girl, do you actually think that a girl wearing a bra can't get a reaction out of a boy?

I can't imagine how angry I'd be if my dd's school tried to force her into a bra that she didn't want to wear. Luckily, this doesn't apply to ds1, and my other kids are being homeschooled.


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyto3girls*
Now, I'm not saying to force her to wear a bra, but an undershirt or thourough inspection of what she looks like through her shirt each day, may be in order. If for no other reason than to be sure the boys aren't stocking up on memories of her chest for leter on!

Did you just add this, or am I going nuts?

If my mother subjected me to a "thorough inspection" of what I looked like through my shirt every day, I'd have quit school - yes, even at 12. I can't imagine anything more humiliating.

I wouldn't wear an undershirt at that age, as I found them too warm.

And, again...do you believe that a _bra_ (or an undershirt, for that matter) will stop the boy from "stocking up on memories of her chest"???


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## BelgianSheepDog

This could all be solved so easily if we would only agree that all females should wear burqas!

Heads would roll if this were my daughter. Go get em, tiger.


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## townmouse

She's 11! I'm a little shocked that people think she should wear a thick bra to save the 11 year old boys from getting turned on.

My oldest child is only 9 and homeschooled. Am I really out of touch here?


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## aniT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyto3girls*
Okay, yet another post for tina to hate me for









Generally, school dress codes have "appropriate undergarments" listed on it. This includes the banning of visible panties, bras, boxers. It also includes wearing appropriate undergarments. All too often we get girls at school where you can see the shape of not just the nipple, but the entire areola. This is disruptive to the learning environment. Besides that, someone mentioned what will boys do if they happen to have a certain piece of their anatomy at attention. Do you really want it to be the sight of your braless daughter's breasts to be the cause of that?

Now, I'm not saying to force her to wear a bra, but an undershirt or thourough inspection of what she looks like through her shirt each day, may be in order. If for no other reason than to be sure the boys aren't stocking up on memories of her chest for leter on!

Checked my daughters dress code, nothing about wearing bras in there.

Since I have been a size 36C since 11 years old (and I have no idea what size I am now since I wear a multi size nuring bra) I personally would not have gone out of the house without a bra on. My 13 year old doesn't leave the house without one either.

I am not sure what I would do if I were in your situation. On the one hand I think people should wear bra's simply because it makes them look neater. On the other hand, it is really none of the teachers business and who the hell does she think she is to dictate something as personal as undergarmets.


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## mommyto3girls

You must have been reading along, as soon as I hit post I hit edit and added that.

If mom is up with her daughter, daughter does not even need to know that mom is checking her out. Having a face to face conversation shoudl allow enough time for mom to see if you can see through the shirt.

Of course boys get erections for many reasons and for no reason at all. What I am saying is, do you really want to add your daughter's chest to their mental file?

And besides that, its a school. Schools have rules and guidelines that must be followed for the good of the many, not the good of the few.

To the OP, I do think it is a good idea that you talk to the teacher. Obviously I do not know your daughter, but kids have been known to leave the house wearing one thing and walk through school all day wearing someting totally different, even if she doesn't own anything you think is objectionable she could be borrowing from friends. This was a big issue for us before.

Now our school system went to uniforms. Now I have issues with uniforms and I am sure many of you do as well. In our district the uniform has really helped. We had literal gang wars going on in the neighborhoods all around the schools and often that spilled into the schools. Now I am in no way saying that we don't still have gang issues, but at least this way they kids can't be sporting their colors, wearing the laces, rolling a pant leg, misbuttoning a shirt, wearing the beads that denote their gang, etc.


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## BelgianSheepDog

I'm sure they have plenty of Victoria's Secret ads in their "mental files" as it is, sounds like a great anti-bra argument to me.


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## mommyto3girls

Again, I am not talkign about any boobs. I am talking about YOUR DAUGHTER"s BOOBS. Call me crazy, but I would much rather have the boy that rides the bus home with her, or sits next to her in Math class thinking about a VS model than thinking about My Daughter that way


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## aniT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyto3girls*
Again, I am not talkign about any boobs. I am talking about YOUR DAUGHTER"s BOOBS. Call me crazy, but I would much rather have the boy that rides the bus home with her, or sits next to her in Math class thinking about a VS model than thinking about My Daughter that way

Boys are going to think about your daughter that way. It is a fact of life and there is NOTHING you can do about it. Bra or no bra. It doesn't make a difference. It just gives them something to snap when they can get away with it.


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## canadianchick

I would be really po'd to get a note like that. I think if she was concerned for your daughter.... maybe if the other girls were wearing them and your dd was not, then she could have called and chatted with you. As far as thickness goes, if you and your dd decide that she is going to wear one then she needs to be comfortable and feel good about herself. The hell with everyone else... including the teacher!







:


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

There is no undergarment rule in my dd's school about bra's only the boys having there "draws" showing above there jeans. It does have several rules applying to dress as well.

I am looking forward to reading what exscuse this teacher comes up with and if she can justify sending the note home (right now I cant imagine what the big deal is) but maybe there is a lagitamite reason







: I highly doubt it tho.


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## Pandora114

I needed a bra in grade 4...

Never gotten mine snapped....

BEFORE I got the bra my boobs were stabbed with pencils, and tweaked and squeezed mercilessly by boys trying to find out if they were real. (And no, I complained to the teacher, complained to the principle, complained to my mom, who complained to the admin, and nothing was done, the school had a bit to be desired nuff said)

My (now) DH stepped in and put a stop to it by acctually fistfighting with some boys in my defense. (We met when I was in grade 4)

My mom got me sports bras after that incident. Looked like crop tops. Hid the "headlight" look, and minimized the appearance of my breasts to save me from anymore harassment...


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## mommyto3girls

Do you honestly believe that boys won't talk more about a girl who's boobs are clearly definable through their shirt? Obviously you have not spent hours upon hours with prepubescent boys.


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## mommyto3girls

((((Pandora, I am so sorry)))) Very cool about you dh. I met mine the summer before 4th grade though we went to different schools (met at 4-H camp)


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## Anglyn

I wore a bra in middle school because everyone said that you had to. It probally wasnt true, but the other kids said things like the teachers will check by running a hand down your back and send you home if you dont, so I wore one to avoid that but I hated them SOOOO much, they are torture devices!! I quit wearing them at all when I was around 26 or so, four years ago when pg. with dd I started wearing sports bras, much better than the regular ones, but I still strip them off the second Im home.

Did you know that bras have been linked with breast cancer? Theres a book called "Dressed to Kill" and thats all its about. I can find out the author, I have the book on my shelf, if anyone is interested.

I had an employer once who tried to make a thing out of it, but I pointed out that she didnt KNOW I didnt wear one until I TOLD her, so it obviously wanstn obvious (I was very careful about what I wore, especially in summer, in winter thick sweaters took care of it). I think that anyone who questions you about your underware is seriously flirting with a sexual harrassment suit. JMO.


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## MsHelena

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyto3girls*
Generally, school dress codes have "appropriate undergarments" listed on it. This includes the banning of visible panties, bras, boxers.

One of my fondest memories from high school was of the day a girl in one of my classes was reprimanded because her bra strap was showing. The teacher informed her that she would need to change into her gym clothes. The girl in question said, "That won't be necessary," and immediately began to remove her bra.

The teacher turned a violent shade of scarlet and told her not to worry about the straps, but to be mindful of them in the future.

I wish I'd had the chutzpah to do that. Unfortunately, I spent the majority of my youth ashamed of my breasts. A teacher in an "Our Developing Bodies" class (required in the fifth grade) announced to the entire class--while looking pointedly at me--that "some girls wear coats to cover premature development of breasts", and scarred me for life. The coat had more to do with a nightmare I kept having (the kind where you are walking around school naked, actually) than my complete lack of breast development.

I'm still, 13 years later, uncomfortable if my chest is not covered. Whatever you decide on this matter, it might be wise to make sure the teacher won't make any comments to your daughter or her classmates.


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## mamaofthree

What a crazy note to get from a teacher! Sorry this thread is turning into a bra debate... so to add to the debate... do you think boys can't tell when a girl is wearing a bra? That they aren't thinking about that too? Sheesh.

To the OP: I hope it all goes well. I am curious to hear what the teacher was thinking. I can't imagine how emabarrasing it would be to have a teacher send home a note telling my mom to put me in a bra!

H


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

I can definatly see how wearing a bra could very well be linked to breast cancer, that tight elastic around your body has to cut off blood flow to a certain extent. Many woman wear bra's that are ill fitting as well.


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## aniT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pandora114*
I needed a bra in grade 4...

Never gotten mine snapped....

BEFORE I got the bra my boobs were stabbed with pencils, and tweaked and squeezed mercilessly by boys trying to find out if they were real. (And no, I complained to the teacher, complained to the principle, complained to my mom, who complained to the admin, and nothing was done, the school had a bit to be desired nuff said)


I am sorry you had to go through that. I also had to start wearing a bra in the 4th grade. By 6th grade, because of my size, I passed for a 17 year old. I have never once had anyone "grab" at me or do any of the other things that happened to you. It sounds like you were just in a bad school surrounded by people who did not know their boundaries.

I have on the other hand, had my bra snapped numerous times.


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## mommyto3girls

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anglyn*
I wore a bra in middle school because everyone said that you had to. It probally wasnt true, but the other kids said things like the teachers will check by running a hand down your back and send you home if you dont,

I think that anyone who questions you about your underware is seriously flirting with a sexual harrassment suit. JMO.

Okay, if any teacher is doing that they deserve to get a sexual harassment suit filed. now that you say that I think I remember hearing that rumor when I was in school.

As far as a teacher suggesting it being harassment. As long as the teacher noticed in the same way as everyone else did (visible through the shirt) and didn't announce it to the class, then she really was doing her job. I can just about assure you, provided she is like the other teachers I ahve worked with (3 schools in my district) the teacher really has her daughter's best interest at heart. You ahve to remember that we, as teachers, deal with large groups of kids everyday. We know which things need to be addressed or they will end up causing larger problems.

Of course, not wearing a bra does not mean you child should get picked on like Pandora did, but now if this behavior is going on or continues, and the boys get in trouble (as they should) Be prepared to be able to explain to the school counselor and/or principal why you didn't think the teachers concerns were valid or applicable to your daughter. Teachers try to keep bullying and harassment out of the classroom, but it still goes on, especially in the lunch room and on the bus.


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## aniT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMoMof2*
I can definatly see how wearing a bra could very well be linked to breast cancer, that tight elastic around your body has to cut off blood flow to a certain extent. Many woman wear bra's that are ill fitting as well.









That is because it is almost impossible to find one that fits properly in the larger sizes.


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## Cajunmomma

I have thought about this before I was able to answer. Regardless of what your daughter looks like without her bra, I would be outraged at the teacher's nerve in sending me that note. I do not think that it is within the purview of the teacher to tell any child how to dress--unless it is a violation of the offical dress code.

I think that, if it were my daughter, I would speak with her about the teacher's concerns and ask her how SHE feels about it. Then I would let her feelings rule my decision.

That's what I would do.


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## Pandora114

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT*
That is because it is almost impossible to find one that fits properly in the larger sizes.

















:

And Tina: That was a real crappy school. They did lunch box patrols. I mean if you had anything in your lunch *they* deemed unhealthy, then they took it. That means if you had white bread for your sandwich, or even a peanut butter sandwitch on whole grain...a granola bar, anything they thought was unhealthy they took it out.

They didn't even have a sanctioned list of "approved" foods to give to the parents, it was totally up to the teachers discretion.

Oh, and dont get me started on the language police. Oy!


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## mommyto3girls

Lunch box Patrol? What the h*ll! Was this a public school? They will let blatent sexual harrassment go on, but G*d forbid a granola bar!


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## prettypixels

My nipples show through even my padded bras.







They like to say HELLO to the world I guess!

What a bizarre request. What the heck is your teacher doing looking at your daughters breasts anyways?!?!?!? And seriously, I am not about forcing the female half of the population to wear anything based on the lack of self control evident amongst the male half. If their mamas don't teach them respect for women, leave it to me, without my bra, to do it!







:

I don't believe it is RIGHT that a child should be forced into a bra she doesn't want to wear because a boy might be stimulated by staring at her breasts. Frankly I think adolescent boys will get stimulated regardless of whether or not her nipples are visible to the naked eye or you need a microscope to see them. That is why they are called "adolescent." Learning to deal with it is part of growing up, IMO.

I would definitely be wanting a chat with this teacher!


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## Pandora114

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyto3girls*
Lunch box Patrol? What the h*ll! Was this a public school? They will let blatent sexual harrassment go on, but G*d forbid a granola bar!

>.> Semi-Private Military French Language school..we had little uniforms and everything...


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## mamaofthree

Or loppedsided, or nursing. Lately there is this new thing of putting UNDERWIRE in nursing bras! SHEESH! All that does is plug ducts.







:

Pandora114: That is some messed up school you went too. They allowed boys to poke you in the chest, but took granola bars out of lunch boxes?? Maybe the teachers were just hungry. LOL









H


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## prettypixels

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyto3girls*
Now, I'm not saying to force her to wear a bra, but an undershirt or thourough inspection of what she looks like through her shirt each day, may be in order. If for no other reason than to be sure the boys aren't stocking up on memories of her chest for leter on!

So if your worst case scenario is that the boys might... think.. of her breasts later on... ummmmm... so what?

I am not sure why that is cause to subject this young woman to humiliation and scrutiny. I must be really confused.







:


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## wonderwahine

coming from an early developers POV......if you dont wear a bra once you get to a B or more, ANY movement does tend to distract the boys, and it could make her the object of teasing.

I do think its wrong for the teacher to be sending that home, but i would definatly find out what her POV was when she sent it.


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## mamaofthree

Man this thread is trucking along!
Prettypixels: I totally agree with you. (I don't know how to do the quote thing after all these years! LOL) Why should women/girls be subject to something just because "we" can't teach men/boys how to be respectful. How about teaching boys that girls bodys belong to girls and to keep their d*mn hands to themselves!







:

H


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## Mama Poot

Stepping in....couldn't not post on this one. I think this is totally ridiculous. What happened to the old feminist "bra-burning" attitude?? I think it needs to come back. Before long we'll all be back in whalebone corsets if this teacher and those likeminded get their way. Oh and BTW you can often see men's nipples through shirts too, but they don't have to wear undershirts ( although my grandfather always did- generation thing I suppose ) Your DD has enough to worry about being 11 years old, and she's going to have a lot of not-so-great things to deal with coming up in the future ( periods, pms, you get it.. ) Why oh why do we force our girls to grow up so soon???








If your dd doesn't want to wear a bra, she shouldn't have to.


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## charliemae

I just wanted to chime in on this topic... it seems to me that the teacher did not responed to the situation approtratly. First if she wrote the words "needs to" they should be followed by a reason. next, if there is a reason that she "needs to" then you should have been informed in a phone call.

FWIW I think you should make a few phone calls of your own.

I would love to hear how things turn out and what action you decide to take.


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## mommyto3girls

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prettypixels*
So if your worst case scenario is that the boys might... think.. of her breasts later on... ummmmm... so what?


Okay, so right or not. Often what boys think about one day is what they act on the next. They are not your sons, they have not been raised with your morals. I personally would rather explain to my daughter what may be going on and ask her to wear a T-shirt, sports bra, bra, thicker shirt, whatever.

Much better then a boy decided to stick his hand up her shirt in the hall because of the easy access.

I don't know, maybe I have spent too much time in the inner city. Seen too much, know too much about what can happen to kids in schools. We do our best here, Principal, Asst. Principal, 2 deans, 2 Campus Protection officers, and one city police officer in the junior highs. Things still happen.

In case any of you do not know where I teach. I teach where the White Surpremicists came up from W. Virginia and tried to hold a protest march. Now, I do not agree with them in any way shape or form, obviously or I would not teach where I teach. However, the police were obligated to provide protecting as they had filed the legal papers to stage a "peaceful" protest. People in Toledo were furious, as they should be. However, it was still the surpremicists constitutional right to hold a peaceful protsest. It turned into what was known as "The North End Riots" It was shown on CNN, and MSN. I had students in my 6th grade class arrested for throwing rocks at the police. People's homes were torn apart, a 80 year old man's business and home were burned to the ground and he wasn't involved in the feuding at all.

I need to go to bed, I have 100 teens and pre-teens expecting me to be on my toes at 7:30 tomorrow


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## mamaofthree

Ok that was a bit off topic. Still, a bra will not stop a boy who wants to grab up on a girl. It isn't a shield. They can still grab the boob. And I am sure it would be just as tramatizing with or without a bra to have some *ss grab you breasts as an 11 year old. That being said... you have again put the blame/responsiblity on the girl to keep from being molested by a boy instead of society teaching boys that that sort of thing is just plain wrong. This sort of change will not happen over night, but it will never happen if we burry our heads in the sand and tell our daughters to cover up.

H


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## mommyto3girls

What was off topic? Telling you where I teach so you can understnad my point of view better.

Obviously, as I said, it is not the girls responsibility. However, anything to keep my daughter safer. And yes, the ones where they could feel bare boob would be more likely grabbed than the ones that they would get a handful of bra from.

Now I'm really going to bed


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

:







: mamaofthree exactly what I was thinking but wasnt able to figure out how to type it.


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *romans_mum*
coming from an early developers POV......if you dont wear a bra once you get to a B or more, ANY movement does tend to distract the boys, and it could make her the object of teasing.

Coming from another early developer, who wore a bra from the moment they started to appear, a bra does diddly-squat to prevent this. I was poked in the breasts, I had my bra snapped, I had a boy point out (loudly) that my "tits were lopsided" at lunch time. I was followed around by two boys saying "I want your body" and reaching for me. I had boys assume that I was "easy", because I had a big chest. I _always_ wore a bra.

Someone replied to my comment about "thoroughly inspecting" your dd. I can assure you that I noticed when people were looking at my chest - mom, teacher, boy in my class, creepy old guy - whatever. It didn't matter if they stared or just glanced. I was hyper-sensitive to it. Besides, what good is checking "discreetly"? If the girl's nipples are visible or whatever, there's no way to address that without calling her attention to it...and then she'll know that you were studying her chest.

Oh - and I've also had people stick their hand up my shirt, against my objections, despite the lack of "easy access".

A bra is a piece of fabric - it's not body armour. And, I know plenty of guys, young and old, who much prefer the look of a woman's (or girl's) breasts in a bra than not in a bra. So, putting a bra on isn't going to keep my dd's breasts from appearing in some boy's sexual fantasies.


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## itsang

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree*
Ok that was a bit off topic. Still, a bra will not stop a boy who wants to grab up on a girl. It isn't a shield. They can still grab the boob. And I am sure it would be just as tramatizing with or without a bra to have some *ss grab you breasts as an 11 year old. That being said... you have again put the blame/responsiblity on the girl to keep from being molested by a boy instead of society teaching boys that that sort of thing is just plain wrong. This sort of change will not happen over night, but it will never happen if we burry our heads in the sand and tell our daughters to cover up.

H









:


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## MsHelena

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyto3girls*
What was off topic? Telling you where I teach so you can understnad my point of view better.

Obviously, as I said, it is not the girls responsibility. However, anything to keep my daughter safer. And yes, the ones where they could feel bare boob would be more likely grabbed than the ones that they would get a handful of bra from.

Now I'm really going to bed

Quite frankly, I would rather not teach any daughter of mine to be ashamed of her body. I would rather show her what recourse and preventative measures she can use to protect herself. Rather than force a girl into a bra, I would offer self-defense classes. Karate. Jujitsu. I would help her find the proper retorts and the appropriate authority figure with whom to speak if she encounters any trouble. I would let her know that she is less likely to be victimized if she displayed her confidence in herself and her body. And most of all, if she encountered any trouble that she couldn't handle herself, I would fight like hell to protect her and to guarantee that anyone who disrespects her is appropriately punished.

I don't think teaching a daughter to wear a bra out of fear would serve her at all. I think it would damage her.


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## BelgianSheepDog

It's all about choosing the right tool:

1. Bras are the right tool for shaping breasts, lifting them, and making them seem symmetrical.

2. Kicks to the groin and jabs to the eyeballs are the appropriate tools for dealing with boys or men who sexually assault girls or women.

Wearing a bra won't help ward off sexual assault any more than kicking a dude in the groin will give you perky, symmetrical boobs.


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## mollykatsmom

Quote:

I would let her know that she is less likely to be victimized if she displayed her confidence in herself and her body. And most of all, if she encountered any trouble that she couldn't handle herself, I would fight like hell to protect her and to guarantee that anyone who disrespects her is appropriately punished.

I don't think teaching a daughter to wear a bra out of fear would serve her at all. I think it would damage her.
This is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO important. The girls that walk tall and proud and let the boys know if they step out of line are so much safer than the ones that have been told that it is their responsibility to dress modestly so that the boys don't lose control.

Until last year, I was a middle school teacher (Now I teach at an alternative high school). I have had girls wearing music video fantasy gear that walked down the halls unscathed, and I had a serious sexual harassment incident with a group of boys harassing a girl who wore very "decent" clothes each day. But she oozed "victim" out of her every pore.

It is also my experience that when something does happen, the girls with a strong sense of self bounce back quicker--they place the blame squarely where it belongs--with the perpetrator, whereas the ones that have been told that they need to dress and act in a certain way to be "safe" blame themselves.


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## mamaofthree

RIGHT ON!

Making young girls ashamed of their bodies, I think only encourages the gropping and bra snapping. They look like targets. Being all bent over and slumped, hiding within themselves. Putting on fabic body armor to prevent boys from looking and maybe even thinking about them later, is just plain silly. And as someone who knows some 11 year old boys, not many (if any at all) are interested in boobs or girls.
I had a dear friend who was "huge" in 5th grade, but she was proud and stood tall, and had few if any comments made to her, even at 10-11 years old.
If we teach our dd's to be proud of their bodies (no matter how much or how little breast they have), teach them that they are not objects to be groped (but not to teach them to hide themselves), and on top of all of that teach boys to be respectful of female bodies (and their own bodies for that matter) then maybe this wouldn't even be a topic.

H


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog*
Wearing a bra won't help ward off sexual assault any more than kicking a dude in the groin will give you perky, symmetrical boobs.

If it weren't that I'd have to explain it every time, I'd make this my new sig!


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## alegna

I am truly speechless at this attitude at ALL, but here? Wow. Just wow. I don't want my daughters to EVER feel that they need to dress in any sort of way because of what may or may not excite some guys. Good god. What century is this? Maybe we shouldn't let them wear shorts or skirts above the ankle either. Oh and some boys are turned on by ankles or wrists so socks and long sleeves. Come ON people. This is about personal rights.

Do you want a cop to pull you over and say you're not appropriately dressed because you don't have a bra on?

If I had DARED to write a letter like that while teaching in public schools I would have been on every news station and would not have had a job by the end of the week.

-Angela


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## mommyto3girls

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree*

And as someone who knows some 11 year old boys, not many (if any at all) are interested in boobs or girls.

H

interesting, as i taught about 45 11-12 year old boys last year and most were into girls and boobs, and yes, some of them were having sex.


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## mommyto3girls

I totally agree, I just don't think that wearing a bra or t-shirt equals being ashamed at all. It is all in the presentation

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree*
RIGHT ON!

Making young girls ashamed of their bodies, I think only encourages the gropping and bra snapping. They look like targets. Being all bent over and slumped, hiding within themselves. Putting on fabic body armor to prevent boys from looking and maybe even thinking about them later, is just plain silly. And as someone who knows some 11 year old boys, not many (if any at all) are interested in boobs or girls.
I had a dear friend who was "huge" in 5th grade, but she was proud and stood tall, and had few if any comments made to her, even at 10-11 years old.
If we teach our dd's to be proud of their bodies (no matter how much or how little breast they have), teach them that they are not objects to be groped (but not to teach them to hide themselves), and on top of all of that teach boys to be respectful of female bodies (and their own bodies for that matter) then maybe this wouldn't even be a topic.

H


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## MsHelena

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyto3girls*
I totally agree, I just don't think that wearing a bra or t-shirt equals being ashamed at all. It is all in the presentation

Oh I agree. Wearing a bra doesn't amount to being ashamed of one's body. Wearing a bra because one fears that some boy might see the outline of a nipple certainly smacks of shame.


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## mamaofthree

Is this going to be some sort of pissing contest on who knows how many messed up 11 year old boys? I am sorry you know 45 11 year old boys who are not only into girls, and boobs but also having sex. That just shows me a really messed up environment.
And forcing gilrs to dress to prevent these messed up boys from groping them isn't the answer. Getting those kids help is. Teaching them right touch from wrong touch. And getting our girls to know what is right touch and wrong touch is also a #1 factor. Not slapping a bra on every developing girl to shame her, and "protect" her. Because if you have 11 year old kids having sex, no bra in the world will help that. EDUCATION WILL. If it isn't happening at home then it should be happening in the school... someone has to help those kids, or you just a a circle of violence against women. That isn't only condoned in the home, but in the school... when nothing is done.

H


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## mamaofthree

MsHelena: Exactly. It isn't the bra, it is the REASON behind the bra. Not because the girl wants to wear one, is more comfortable with one, but to "protect" her from rouge male eyes, to shame her into wearing one, to put the blame on the girl because uneducated men/boys oogle and grope... like she some how "asked for it" because she chose not to wear a bra. How is that even OK with anyone?

H


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## mommyto3girls

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree*
Is this going to be some sort of pissing contest on who knows how many messed up 11 year old boys? I am sorry you know 45 11 year old boys who are not only into girls, and boobs but also having sex. That just shows me a really messed up environment.
And forcing gilrs to dress to prevent these messed up boys from groping them isn't the answer. Getting those kids help is. Teaching them right touch from wrong touch. And getting our girls to know what is right touch and wrong touch is also a #1 factor. Not slapping a bra on every developing girl to shame her, and "protect" her. Because if you have 11 year old kids having sex, no bra in the world will help that. EDUCATION WILL. If it isn't happening at home then it should be happening in the school... someone has to help those kids, or you just a a circle of violence against women. That isn't only condoned in the home, but in the school... when nothing is done.

H

And no, of course it isn't a pissing contest, you said you didn't know any 11 year old boys that were into boobs, I am just pointing out different environments to you. NOt everyone lives in a place where 11 year old boys are still just boys unfortunately,

Of course it needs to be taught in school and we try, but education at school does no good when there is not reinforcement in the home and in the neighborhood. I am not talking about your girls here I am talking about other kids and the lives they lead


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## BurgundyElephant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog*
It's all about choosing the right tool:

1. Bras are the right tool for shaping breasts, lifting them, and making them seem symmetrical.

2. Kicks to the groin and jabs to the eyeballs are the appropriate tools for dealing with boys or men who sexually assault girls or women.

Wearing a bra won't help ward off sexual assault any more than kicking a dude in the groin will give you perky, symmetrical boobs.









: You rock, Mama!


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## mommyto3girls

Oh, and those of you who have seen me on the lactavism boards know that I have nothing against boobs and boobs in public. But exposing boobs, yes even the defined outline on the areola, in school just isn't the place for it.


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## luvdisny

I'm a large girl with large breasts, so I always wear a bra when I leave the house. I also used to work for a large hotel chain that has stated in the employee handbook that *proper undergarments must be worn at all times.* I actually saw women sent home for _lack of proper foundation_.

Is it possible that the teacher wrote this note on the basis that she needed a bra for gym class? My sister, who always jokes that she is so flat that she is concave, never goes running/jogging without a bra. To her it is just more comfortable that way. (Just an idea....)


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## eminer

Burn that sucker! Yeeeeee-haw!


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## bczmama

I must admit, I'm never admiring of the perverse just to be perverse, cut my own nose off to spite my face school of parenting.

How hard is it, rather than be offended, to call the teacher and inquire as to the basis for the note? If its ridiculous, you can dismiss it -- however, if your daughter is becoming the subject of unwanted attention or the fact that she appears less modest/older than most 11 yos because of the lack of a bra is impacting her in a negative way, why not listen to the teacher's (who sees her for some 8 hours a day during the week and sees how she interacts with her peers) concerns, and then lay out what is going on to your daughter so she can make an informed choice. I wouldn't sit on my child and forcibily apply deoderant if they don't want to wear it, but for damn sure I'd make clear to them the consequences if they don't (they stink and no one wants to be around them).


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## MommyMine

Nankey-

What are you going to do?


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## liawbh

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bczmama*
I must admit, I'm never admiring of the perverse just to be perverse, cut my own nose off to spite my face school of parenting.

How hard is it, rather than be offended, to call the teacher and inquire as to the basis for the note? If its ridiculous, you can dismiss it -- however, if your daughter is becoming the subject of unwanted attention or the fact that she appears less modest/older than most 11 yos because of the lack of a bra is impacting her in a negative way, why not listen to the teacher's (who sees her for some 8 hours a day during the week and sees how she interacts with her peers) concerns, and then lay out what is going on to your daughter so she can make an informed choice. I wouldn't sit on my child and forcibily apply deoderant if they don't want to wear it, but for damn sure I'd make clear to them the consequences if they don't (they stink and no one wants to be around them).

Excuse me?
Teaching our girls to be proud of their bodies and to dress how they choose is "perverse just to be perverse" ?????

My mom still talks about how my G'ma used to pretend to hug her, just to rub her back and check for bra straps (late 60s). She hated it. And it only encouraged her to change later.

AS far as what boys notice, if they're at a point to notice breasts, you can be damn sure they notice bras. I remember LOTS of talk from middle school boys about whose bra was showing, bra strap snapping, etc. And if they couldn't tell? THen they made comments about the tightness or bagginess of jeans, or stared at all the girls' crotches to check for the elusive "camel-toe."

That's on them, NOT on the girls.


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## Snowdrift

Maybe I'm spoiled because I went to an all-girls school, but I was a very late bra-wearer, not from a lack of need, but because I was just uncomfortable.

I experimented once of twice when I was eleven and starting to really need one, felt like the straps showed too much, didn't like the way it felt like a harness all over my body, and felt too 'grown-up.'

I always got a really uncomfortable feeling in the back of my throat when I wore a bra or thought about it, like a little bit nauseated. Maybe I was just a seriously messed up kid, but it was a very anxious experience for me.

I eventually adjusted sloooowwwwly to sports bras, choosing at first ones more like short tops and eventually more bra-like ones over a period of several years.

Now I wear a night-time nursing bra all the time bc I still can't stand the super-supportive strappy harness like feel of a regualr nursing bra.

I just don't understand why something so intensely personal is up for scrutiny. Like I say, maybe I was just a really messed up kid, but for this to be a matter of public debate would've beyond freaked me out. Totally innappropriate for it to be about anyone but the young lady herself.

As for getting grabbed in the hallway, that just sickens me. Sounds like a great argument for single-sex education or homeschooling.


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## Arduinna

Did I step into a time warp? Is it the 1950's? What is with all the posts about women needing to change and hide to "protect" themslves? I would be LIVID if that was my daughters teacher. I don't care what size your breasts are, men and boys are responsible for their own actions, bra or no bra. WOW!

I don't force my daighter to wear a bra, and I don't even suggest it. Nor would I ever submit her to some "inspection" for fear a nipple might show. I don't even know what to say to this. The concept is so draconian to me.


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## Arduinna

Quote:

I just don't understand why something so intensely personal is up for scrutiny. Like I say, maybe I was just a really messed up kid, but for this to be a matter of public debate would've beyond freaked me out. Totally innappropriate for it to be about anyone but the young lady herself.
ITA


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## frontierpsych

Is there something wrong with the boys looking or noticing her changing body?

If she doesn't have a problem with it, then she should be free to wear whatever she wants within the dress code.

Besides, i know when i was in school, it was far more disruptive to wear a bra than not, because when the boys found out you wore a bra they'd have to go out of their way to snap it constantly!


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## eightyferrettoes

How the hell do we teach girls at the age of eleven that their new breasts must be hidden, at all costs, from the roving eyes of uncontrollably masturbating sexstarved boys, and then expect them to proudly and confidently expose those breasts to feed their children five or ten or fifteen years later?

Isn't this whole irrational terror of the exposed nipple half the problem with getting women to breastfeed more than a minute in this country?

If the kiddo doesn't wanna wear a bra, it's nobody's business to make her. I don't care what shape or size they are, or whether her nipples are sticking out, or who may or may not be getting a hardon.

Holy crap.


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## bczmama

"Teaching our girls to be proud of their bodies and to dress how they choose is "perverse just to be perverse"

No -- the OP's first reaction to the note, to do the opposite just BECAUSE its the opposite is being perverse just to be perverse. I am disturbed that that was her first reaction, rather than trying to figure out what is actually taking place at the school that created the reason for the note. Maybe its nothing, maybe the teacher is a 60 year old spinster who hates sex, but maybe the OP's daughter is actually having some kind of issue or trouble at school, and wouldn't it be nice to find out whether that is the case, rather than getting all offended (as some posters did) that the teacher wrote a note rather than called. I don't feel the immediate correct response here is anger -- rather it should be a request for more information from the teacher followed by anger if appropriate.

There are hippie or hippie wannabes on this site who think they're questioning authority -- but a lot of time what I see is dismissing authority just to show everyone how (supposedly) cool, unconventional or otherwise free-spirited they are or for hippie group cred, without thinking through the rationale for the request or rule and making a logical decision whether it makes good sense to abide by it.


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## prettypixels

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog*
It's all about choosing the right tool:

1. Bras are the right tool for shaping breasts, lifting them, and making them seem symmetrical.

2. Kicks to the groin and jabs to the eyeballs are the appropriate tools for dealing with boys or men who sexually assault girls or women.

Wearing a bra won't help ward off sexual assault any more than kicking a dude in the groin will give you perky, symmetrical boobs.


















Mommyto3girls... I really don't see how a white supremacist protest is relevant to this discussion at all. That said... there are racists everywhere. There are bad people everywhere. And especially if I lived somewhere where there were heavy gang activity I'd want my daughters to know how to protect themselves, so that when a guy grabs their boob they can defend themselves instead of standing there and being a victim. (I want my kids to know how to protect themselves regardless... but I wouldn't let living in a less than desireable neighborhood make victims out of me or them.) I wouldn't want her to feel she has to dress in a certain way because someone, someday, "might" try to touch her. I want my kids to feel safe in their own skin, no matter what that skin looks like.

StormBride... *applause!* For sharing your experience! I had people make fun of my boobs too when I started getting them, and mine weren't even big.


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## prettypixels

Hippies and hippie wannabes????


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## Momof3inMI

My DD1 is 12 and it is her choice to wear a bra eveyday. I to wear one,butI am a Double F the last time I was fitted (I have gotten bigger since). I can hear boys make comments on her while in a bra. A bra has nothing to do with it. Boys look at that age or any age after purberty hits!








If your DD is comfortable going "Free" then the school should stay out of it! Next it will be girls need to shave their pits and legs. Heaven for bid they have co-ed swim....They might tell them you shave other spots too.







:
This is NOT what school should be about! I am tired of schools telling out children how to dress with other that a basic dress code. School is for learning teachers are for teaching, not for giving us or our children their opinions (unless asked).


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## numom499

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT*
I think it would really depend on what size your child is.

Say if she wears an A that is small and many adults that wear A's dont even wear bra's. But if the child wears a B or bigger, in my opionion she should be wearing a bra. On that note however, I don't think it is the schools business to tell you so. I mean a bra or undershirt? As long as her shirts are not see through what is an undershirt going to acomplish?







:

You might try talking to the teacher to find out where she is coming from and go from there. Then if you still feel she has crossed the line, go from there.

I'm a 38d right now, and there are many days I don't wear a bra. I am so glad I am not in school....


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## Nankay

Holy moley, didn't know this would open such a can of worms!







I appreciate *all* the points of view! I have NOT talked with the teacher yet (That will be today) and my daughter does not know about the note. As for teasing at school, no, I don't think so. DD is one who would tell me if she were being harassed or if someone had said anything. She hasn't had PE since last week, so I don't think that's the issue. I DO look to see if anything is noticeable , but with the things she wears I have never seen a nipple or areole at all. I "made' her pick either a bra or undershirt today to wear until I could get this all straightened out. She sighed, rolled her eyes, but put one on. (I couldn't see a difference) Personally, as for 'seeing" a nipple through clothing, I can't stop myself from thinking, 'so what??"

I'll keep you posted.


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## Momof3inMI

Sorry double post.


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## Mommy Piadosa

So many many great points- and many of you had me giggling too. But it was a sad laugh since I am aghast at the fact that anyone thinks that a child is responsible for another's thoughts.

Quote:

How the hell do we teach girls at the age of eleven that their new breasts must be hidden, at all costs, from the roving eyes of uncontrollably masturbating sexstarved boys, and then expect them to proudly and confidently expose those breasts to feed their children five or ten or fifteen years later?
Yeah that!!!

Quote:

There are hippie or hippie wannabes on this site who think they're questioning authority -- but a lot of time what I see is dismissing authority just to show everyone how (supposedly) cool, unconventional or otherwise free-spirited they are or for hippie group cred, without thinking through the rationale for the request or rule and making a logical decision whether it makes good sense to abide by it.
I'm a hippie and my dd is the hippie wanna be- yes I have taught her to question authority- and yes if she does not want to wear I bra I will never make her! I have thought about whether it makes sense to force a bra on an unwilling child- it does not especially since the reasoning is other people's reactions.


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## bczmama

What can I say -- sometimes the "hippier than thou" and "who can most live like its the Dark Ages with a modem" contingent start to wear...

I'm not ashamed!! I hate tie-dye, the Grateful Dead and incense and I'm not afraid to say it! Give me refined sugar, Ann Taylor clothes and smooth legs any day!!

I gotta talk to the mods about getting once of those hippie smilies with an X through it to represent my "tribe" (oh god, how I hate that -- might as well just call it a clique) of one.


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## Nankay

"To each, his own", bczmama. and I think this may be what this issue is truly about.


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## Storm Bride

Somehow, the whole thing about nipples showing went right past me. umm...I wore a pretty heavy-duty bra, because that was what was comfortable for me. My nipples still showed (still do today, in fact) a lot of the time. The bras that most of the girls wore at middle school age (we didn't have middle school) were incredibly thin, wispy things...if you could see the nipple and areolae through their shirt, you could see it through their bra, too. So, all a bra did was lift them up a bit.

Okay - can't believe I'm still posting. I can't believe anybody thinks that a note from a teacher saying "make your daughter wear a bra" with no explanation is acceptable...I can't believe that anybody thinks that making our daughters "hide" their breasts because otherwise pubescent boys might think about them is acceptable...I can't believe anybody thinks that bras "hide" breasts in the first place...I can't believe anybody thinks there is any force on this earth that will _stop_ pubescent boys from thinking about breasts... wow...just...wow...


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## prettypixels

I can't believe that anyone would equate not wanting a teacher to dictate the state of their daughters breasts with the Grateful Dead and incense. I mean, seriously... wtf????

Hippier than thou??? Are you serious??? LOL!!!! I don't believe anyone resorted to calling you names Bczmama, surely we can debate like intelligent adults without such silly comments.


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## mamaofthree

OP: Is this crazy or what!









bczmama: If you want to wear Ann Taylor, shave your legs and wear a bra... be my guest. If I want to question unreasonable authority, be a hairy hippie booby hanging mom, I will do that too. No one called you names, or was nasty to you... your are being rude.







:

Back to the topic... very well put. I don't think wearing a bra "hides" anything. If they are more comfortable for the woman/girl who wears them... wear them. If they are no... DON'T wear them. Your not a "hippie wanna be" for being comfortable. And you can still be a "hippie" if you wear a bra. That isn't some requirement.








I just recently had a talk with my dd (who is twelve) about what is and is not exceptable touching and questions. She is getting to an age where she is liking boys. She just started school and there will be some attention she will be getting. Like I have stated before... it is calledd EDUCATION if the parents are not doing it, the schools need to. NOT tell girls to wear burkas to keep boys from looking, but teaching what is OK and what is not. Bra snapping, boob grabbing, name calling, is not OK. It is wrong. If my dd got an unwanted boob grab, that boy would be hurting.

Anyway, I guess that is all I have to say. All I am doing now is repeating myself and getting all pissed off.
OP: I hope the talk with the teacher goes well. I hope you are doing good and I am glad to hear you dd isn't too phased by all of that. Good luck and hugs to you both!

H


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## papercranegirl

I would be upset if a teacher was checking the status of my daughter's underwear. I think it borders on sexual harassment. A lot of people still have nipple popping through even with a padded bra. I do. It is unacceptable to make your daughter feel uncomfortable about her changing body in an educational environment. If this was an issue of hygeine, a note would be appropriate but this is ridiculous.


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## lml41981

I have a problem with the idea that we should wear clothing to prevent the dirty thoughts or actions of other people. We already have too many women who won't report rapes and assault because they believe the sick idea that they somehow asked for it by wearing whatever it was they had on.

Also, I have a problem with the idea that an 11 year old girl ought to wear a padded bra to prevent visible nipples. She's 11...why make her breasts look larger and more appealing/sexy just to hide a little bit of nipple or areola?

Call the teacher and ask the reasoning behind the note. Maybe she is getting comments and she's too embarrassed to say anything. Or she could be getting comments and she is strong enough to just let them roll off her back. I do agree that there is no point in getting worked up prematurely.


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## Just_Isabel

I think that the teacher asking your daughter to wear a bra is







. I don't wear a bra most of the time, I don't like them, they are tight on my back, they're bad for my circulation.

I agree with that the OP should talk with the teacher and ask for her reasons, but it was wrong for the teacher to demand her to make her daughter wear a bra or undershirt without giving one.

The reasoning about "boys will look, your daughter should cover up" makes no sense, that sounds like blaming the victim mentality.
I totally agree with the PPs who said that if the boys are an issue, better teach the girl to defend herself than to make her think she's responsible for a boy's lack of self-control!


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## cottonwood

Quote:

What can I say -- sometimes the "hippier than thou" and "who can most live like its the Dark Ages with a modem" contingent start to wear...

I'm not ashamed!! I hate tie-dye, the Grateful Dead and incense and I'm not afraid to say it! Give me refined sugar, Ann Taylor clothes and smooth legs any day!!
Right! Because as long as you eat refined sugar, wear Ann Taylor, and shave your legs, there _are_ no social and psychological ramifications to forcing a girl to disguise the shape of her breasts!


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## MomInFlux

FTR - I have small breasts. Today, for a business meeting, I wore a Blue Canoe cotton bra, a tank top, and a crisp white shirt. My nipples were still visible, but I'm pretty sure I didn't scandalize any of the 40-50 year old men in the meeting









Nankay - I think your daughter's teacher is nuts







: Go get em!

Eightyferretoes - Yes, yes, yes! How crazy is it to teach our daughters to be ashamed of their bodies as adolescents, yet expect them to be proud of them as young women?

bczmama - you know where you're at, right?







: MDC - THE NATURAL FAMILY LIVING COMMUNITY


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## Nankay

update --talk w/teacher

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I saw dd's teacher today. I said I was wondering why she felt the need to send a note home regarding dd's bra (or lack thereof). The teacher looked at me blankly and said, "because she's not wearing one." (Umm, ok, duh) I asked if that was a problem. Her answer was, "We wear bras when we have breasts. It's just a basic appropriate clothing/hygiene thing." I said I was trying very hard to not make this an issue for either dd or the teacher. I didn't want to force dd to wear a bra when she wasn't comfortable with one. The teacher again re-stated that it was a matter of dressing appropriately and that dd "would get used to wearing one ' if she had to everday. I told her that I would gently encourage dd to wear a bra or undershirt, but I would not FORCE her to wear one and left it at that.
I am determined not to make this a battle. The teacher can send home another note if she likes, but I think she knows now that she cannot force my dd to wear a bra just because she says so.


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## Storm Bride

How is it a hygiene thing???

I think you handled it really well. I honestly think I'd have blown my top and gone nuts!


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## moondiapers

My 10yo daughter wears a bra or undershirt everyday. If she forgets it's OBVIOUS. You can see the entire outline of her areola because she's got breast buds and her whole nip and areola protrude. The only time she doesn't need a bra is if she's wearing a sweater or sweat shirt.


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## Breathless Wonder

Quote:

We wear bras when we have breasts. It's just a basic appropriate clothing/hygiene thing.

Quote:

The only time she doesn't need a bra
A "need" is something you can not live without (ex. food water, shelter, climate appropriate clothing).

Your breasts don't "need" a bra.

Say you are more comfortable wearing a bra. Say it is societal convention. Say you think it is culturally appropriate. But please, don't confuse these things with "need".


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## wonderwahine

for some bigger breasted women......bras are a NEED, and sometimes surgery. for the average woman, they arn't. Either way, sometimes a bra is a NEED.


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## crissei

I disagree, it is still not a need, by definition.
(I have very large breasts and I don't wear a bra anymore, actually my back pain improved ALOT when I stopped wearing one)


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## alegna

Quote:


Originally Posted by *romans_mum*
for some bigger breasted women......bras are a NEED, and sometimes surgery. for the average woman, they arn't. Either way, sometimes a bra is a NEED.

True. But it is only possible for the owner of the breasts to decide if there's a need. The owner of the ones in question has decided it's not a need.

I still say it is totally inappropriate for a teacher to be involved in this in any way. What if it was a male teacher? How many of you would be okay with the note?

-Angela


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## BelgianSheepDog

"Hygene"? UNless she's squirting breastmilk into everybody's lunch trays, I'm not buying the "hygiene" thing. Weird.


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## desultory

When teacher said "We wear bras when we have breasts" did she also use her kindergarten voice? And what has hygiene to do with it? Sheesh! I see women with and without bras, with boobs of all different sizes and shapes -- happily the law doesn't (yet) dictate our underwear. Anyway, good for you for not blowing your cool, and for declining to force your daughter to comply.

Last sentence deleted!


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## wonderwahine

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna*
True. But it is only possible for the owner of the breasts to decide if there's a need. The owner of the ones in question has decided it's not a need.

I still say it is totally inappropriate for a teacher to be involved in this in any way. What if it was a male teacher? How many of you would be okay with the note?

-Angela

oh, ITA, I was just stating that for some women a bra is a NEED.

I don't think it was right for the teacher to send a letter, it should have been handled better, and now knowing the basis the teacher was coming from, which wasnt out of concern for the dd's mental health because of teasing etc.....it was HIGHLY inappropriate.


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## charliemae

it seems like that teacher is very close minded to new ideas. If she had come from a place of real concern then it would be another story. I just don't think I would have been able to keep my cool in that conversation. Good job for standing up for yourself and your DD.


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## momof421

Good for you for keeping your cool and standing up for your DD.


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## niki_73

I can't believe the teacher thinks you can force any pre-teen or teen to wear something. There is no way I would have been forced to wear a bra, I wore one because it was more comfortable, but if i forgot i didn't really care. Still don't care, no clean underwear today- guess i can go without. I know many adults that choose not to wear undergarments and they definatly don't have hygeine problems. I could even understand if the teacher was saying you dd has to wear shoes as that could be a safety issue but really is someone going to loose an eye because she didn't wear a bra. Glad you stuck up for your dd, let the notes keep coming.


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## Just_Isabel

Wow! Good for you for keeping your cool, I'd have been








"We wear bras when we have breasts. It's just a basic appropriate clothing/hygiene thing."







: This is no real reason in my book.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog*
"Hygene"? UNless she's squirting breastmilk into everybody's lunch trays, I'm not buying the "hygiene" thing. Weird.









: And "appropriate" is very relative. Girls (or anyone else) shouldn't be made to wear things because it's "appropriate" if they're not comfortable with it.


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## prettypixels

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nankay*
update --talk w/teacher

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I saw dd's teacher today. I said I was wondering why she felt the need to send a note home regarding dd's bra (or lack thereof). The teacher looked at me blankly and said, "because she's not wearing one." (Umm, ok, duh) I asked if that was a problem. Her answer was, "We wear bras when we have breasts. It's just a basic appropriate clothing/hygiene thing." I said I was trying very hard to not make this an issue for either dd or the teacher. I didn't want to force dd to wear a bra when she wasn't comfortable with one. The teacher again re-stated that it was a matter of dressing appropriately and that dd "would get used to wearing one ' if she had to everday. I told her that I would gently encourage dd to wear a bra or undershirt, but I would not FORCE her to wear one and left it at that.
I am determined not to make this a battle. The teacher can send home another note if she likes, but I think she knows now that she cannot force my dd to wear a bra just because she says so.

I think I would've asked, "How do you know she's NOT wearing a bra?" Because honestly she has to be observing your daughter pretty closely to tell, based on what you've said, and THAT to me is much more inappropriate than your daughters bra status.

UGH I am so not looking forward to the days when my lil' peanut will be in public school!!!!


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## chanibell

I would let the choice be your daughters. I usually don't wear a bra myself. A few years ago I had reconstructive surgery from breast cancer and afterwards wearing a bra was very uncomfortable. Well its been a long while and I only wear one when I really need to ( which isnt often) I also had a breast reduction so my boobies are "perky" now. Maybe thats why I'm not concerned. What I usually wear is a cami or a tank top and then a shirt over that.


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## EFmom

Is this woman 98 years old? You were way more polite than I would be. I would have said, "No, WE burned our bras in the 60s, and WE haven't looked back."

I actually do wear a bra, but I think she is way, way off base even thinking about mentioning this topic, so I'd have to be snotty.


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## papercranegirl

A bra is not an automatic need. In fact, the modern bra is a realtively new invention. (~100 years or so) So while it's nice for some, it definately shouldn't be required for all.


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## Pynki

I started wearing a bra in 5th grade, but because I have uber sensitive nipples. Breastfeeding has actually helped that, but come PMS time. I HAVE to wear a bra again.

That teacher seems a bit... controlling?... maybe. I mean, how the hell does she KNOW you dd isn't wearing a shelf bra that's just a single layer of spandex cotton under her shirt? KWIM?


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## mommyto3girls

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prettypixels*
















Mommyto3girls... I really don't see how a white supremacist protest is relevant to this discussion at all. That said... there are racists everywhere. There are bad people everywhere. And especially if I lived somewhere where there were heavy gang activity I'd want my daughters to know how to protect themselves, so that when a guy grabs their boob they can defend themselves instead of standing there and being a victim. (I want my kids to know how to protect themselves regardless... but I wouldn't let living in a less than desireable neighborhood make victims out of me or them.) I wouldn't want her to feel she has to dress in a certain way because someone, someday, "might" try to touch her. I want my kids to feel safe in their own skin, no matter what that skin looks like.

StormBride... *applause!* For sharing your experience! I had people make fun of my boobs too when I started getting them, and mine weren't even big.

I wasn't pointing out the white supremicists, I was pointing out that my students were involved in a riot, assulted police, and burned down a 80 year old mans business and home. Just trying to illustrate the type of area I taught in last year to show others where I was coming from with wanting to do everything possible to protect our girls

To the OP. I would be upset now with the teacher's response. Sorry


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## menudo

OMG! I think I woulda ripped my bra off right there! That is BS! I would PRIVATELY contact the Principal. This teacher has overstepped a few boundaries here-for sure.

Her approach and response are horrific. You may wanna get your DD in a different class-this may be JUST the beginning!


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## BelovedK

I just want to remind you to keep your posts on topic. This is about 'forced bra wearing' in the schools, not a debate between 'hippies' and 'non-hippies'

Thank you,

Kelly


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## Arduinna

Woah, teachers don't get to decide if bras are "appropriate" IR required attire for every girl in school. It's between the child and parent. That teacher really went too far.

You were really nice about it though, it'd have probably told her to worry about parenting her own kids.


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## ediesmom

Gotta respond

OP, you were very nicely restrained in your meeting with DDs teacher. I would have had her a$$. How dare anyone make a demand like she did!

I find it disturbing that our developing girls are being looked at and considered a potential sexual problem. A bra will not turn our children into socially appropriate women.

The problem will lie with how we deal with young boys reactions to the female body. Teaching THEM respect is the issue.

My 10y/o dd is not allowed to were belly shirts or any other (what I consider to be) provocative clothing, but she will NEVER be asked to wear a bra. I do buy them for her, but she certainly does not have to wear them. I do not find unrestrained breasts to be anyones business but the bearers.

It is appropriate to cover your breasts(when there is not a baby attached) what they are covered with is a personal choice. No bra necessary.

The first boy (or girl) who bothers my child about her breasts will be called on his/her inappropriate behavior.

BTW, I wear a bra.............by choice.


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## BathrobeGoddess

How old is your dd teacher? She sounds old...

I think that this is wierd anyway...I can't imagine my dd teacher telling me she has to wear a bra...


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## MillingNome

Nankay, I think you handled the teacher great







Her reasoning "It's just a basic appropriate clothing/hygiene thing." reminds me of a house tour I went on over the summer. The original occupants people born from the 1880's or so. The house was mostly original down to original rugs, furniture, plates, curtains and of the sorts. A number of items in the house gave me the heebie jeepies but none more than the corsets







I would no sooner require my dd to wear a bra than a corset. Just because many people wear bras, does not make it the right thing to do for everyone. And yes, so what if her nipples show? Depending on how you're made, a bra won't hide that. How about requiring boys and men to wear cups because you can make our their penis though their pants... not that I look







I wish we could get to a point where as a whole we recognize the beauty of our bodies, both men and women, with no shame of the shapes and curves that cover us. We're all beautiful (you too pandora







) Maybe the teacher needs to be reminded she might be overstepping her boundies, however good intention or not unless she wouldn't mind you telling her how to dress.


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## MillingNome

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree*
Ok that was a bit off topic. Still, a bra will not stop a boy who wants to grab up on a girl. It isn't a shield. They can still grab the boob. And I am sure it would be just as tramatizing with or without a bra to have some *ss grab you breasts as an 11 year old. That being said... you have again put the blame/responsiblity on the girl to keep from being molested by a boy instead of society teaching boys that that sort of thing is just plain wrong. This sort of change will not happen over night, but it will never happen if we burry our heads in the sand and tell our daughters to cover up.H


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## Nankay

I had dd in for her annual physical and I must say we have the coolest ped. in the world. I brought up the teacher's note and she was PO'd She said "there's no evidence that a bra is EVER necessary! That's sooo not any of her business! Do you want me to write a note?! " and "I am angry about that for you!"








Wow...hmm..I should have asked if she was posting on this board.









My DH saw the note but didn't say anything to me until tonight. He was waiting for my reaction. HE was PO'd too. Before I said anything, he said, "That's way out of her area to say anything like that, isn't it?! Is that any of her business??"

YAY hubby!


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## Arduinna

WOOT I'm glad you are getting support IRL too with this. YEA hubby and Dr!


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## cinnamonamon

What Arduinna said!


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## angelpie545

You have an awsome doctor! I would have had her write a note though...







I hate it when people really think that they can actually have any say in matters that don't concern them..then have the audacity to insist they have the right?? Oy...







:


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## MommaJen573

Nankay, you handled the matter wonderfully!

I can't believe we are even having a discussion like this. Look, I am a 40G. I wear a bra for my own personal comfort--I don't really care for the way it feels when they swing from side to side and out and in and... well, you get the idea. Anyway, it would be wholly inappropriate for me to get all up into the bra wearing habits of other people. Seriously, when are we going to start minding our own business? We should all just start going around shirtless. That would take the mystery (and hence the sexuality) out of breasts, and we could all just get on with our lives. Hey, maybe if I'd started out going shirtless when I went from no bra to double D's in the space of a month, I wouldn't care about my hanging low, swinging slow boobies--I wouldn't feel like they have to be tamed and caged? Hmm... Now there's a concept!

PS--> This whole discussion has made me SO glad we're homeschooling!!!
--
Jen








Mom to







: Isaac &







:Ezra


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## DavinaT

Oh good grief, I cannot believe we are havingthis discussion. Did I turn on a time machine to back to the 1800'S instead of my computer this morning?

For the record I wear a bra - becuase I WANT to. I'm 36DD and I find them comfortable and kinda sexy but I would never ever say to any women be she 11 or 101 that she NEEDS to wear a bra.
Congratulations Nankey on handling it so well. I think I would have lost my cool.
The teacher stepped WAY outta line there. I mean would she fee the need to comment on whether the girl should use tampons, pads or a Diva cup.
I mean I have toenails and no one tells me I need to wear toenail polish!

I agree thoroughly with MollyKatsmom on what she said with regard to this - my thoughts exactly but you put it so much more eloquently than I could.

Lets face it, boys are going to be stimulated by girls with bra's, without bras, by women on TV, in magazines - even by an attractive looking young teacher.
The idea of making girls responsible, by what they wear for a boys lack of control (AND HOPEFULLY THEY WILL LEARN CONTROL) truley truely angers me







:
Here in Ireland, certain sectors of society held women as "moral guardians" as certain men "could not control their urges".
Thankfully we have thrown of the shackels of that particular sickness of attitude.


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## Kavita

I would really speak to the Principal. This is inappropriate of the teacher, and many parents might not handle it as well as you did. IMO this teacher overstepped the boundaries, especially in how it was handled. I could even see that if there was some reason for it, gently mentioning something about bra-wearing as a suggestion at a parent-teacher conference or in a phone call to you, as part of a discussion about your DD (something along the lines of "I notice that Suzie is reluctant to participate in gym class lately, and in my experience many girls who have started developing breasts feel more comfortable when they wear a bra.") But to just say that one is required is over the line, and sending a note home for something like that is just very tactless and wrong.


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## BelovedBird

Nan, that is awesome that your doctor offered to write a note!
And BTW in my experience in elementary school the girls _wearing_ bras were more harrased _and injured_ by boys who thought it funny to snap their bras!


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## lml41981

It is the Royal We in the teacher's response that really bugs me. She shouldn't get to decide what is appropriate undergarments for everyone based on what she and her daughters might wear.

Also, the unhygienic thing is just so asurd that it doesn't bother me at all. It is like the women at Victoria's Secret telling the mothers that it is unhygienic to nurse in the fitting room (which is also absurd)...only I'm pretty sure your daughter's breasts aren't shooting out liquid or anything else. I'm just assuming here that they don't shoot laser beams?


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## a-sorta-fairytale

What a rude thing to do. My friend was harrassed in high school to wear a bra BY THE SECURITY GUARDS!!! It was because she was "weird" adn "unattractive" and shy. If i didnt wear a bra with my DD breasts they didnt say a word. So me and my friends started taking our bras off under our clothes IN FRONT OF the security guards and tying them to our backpacks. They didnt DARE say a word to me. We didnt even think to take it to the admin. Within 2 weeks they were so freaked out by our brazen tude they stopped bugging her.

FTR i have worn a bra nearly 24/7 since i was about 10 years old. I have big breasts and they are more comfy that way BUT i soooo wish i could go braless and am envious of anyone who does.


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## a-sorta-fairytale

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Coming from another early developer, who wore a bra from the moment they started to appear, a bra does diddly-squat to prevent this. I was poked in the breasts, I had my bra snapped, I had a boy point out (loudly) that my "tits were lopsided" at lunch time. I was followed around by two boys saying "I want your body" and reaching for me. I had boys assume that I was "easy", because I had a big chest. I _always_ wore a bra.

.

I got called "stuffer" all through 6th grade - i had a c cup. The last day i flashed the group of "popular" boys and told them "stuff this". They were terrified of me for the rest of midschool. I was also assumed to be "easy" because of my large chest. Even as a virgin in 10th grade everyone was sure i was a slut because of my boobs. I got my bra snapped all the freaking time too.


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## urchin_grey

I personally wear a bra in public... I'm just way more comfortable that way. But I see no reason what-so-ever that a small chested 11 year old would NEED a bra.

HOWEVER, that being said, my school made a rule while I was in Jr. High that girls must wear bras. Almost every girl did anyway because we had to "dress out" for PE and well, no one wanted to be totally naked when they changed, kwim? But anyway, this one group of girls (who were far from 'innocent' like your 11yo DD is I'm sure) decided that they would get a rise out of everyone by going to school sans bra with silk shirts.







They also made a point to walk around school "just so" to get as much booby-bounce as they could out of it. And actually, I think they made the other girls madder than they turned the boys on and it caused a lot of fights because of jealousy. ALL these girls wanted to do was MAKE people think they were easy because for some reason that was cool where I went to school. It had nothing to do with comfort or because its more natural.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that there is a reason that a school may enforce this rule. (Though, like I said, they shouldn't be saying anything to an 11yo with tiny boobs.) And, I didn't wear a bra to school even after that rule when we didn't have to dress out. I didn't get caught though because you couldn't tell one way or the other on me!


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## aniT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urchin_grey* 
But I see no reason what-so-ever that a small chested 11 year old would NEED a bra.

(Though, like I said, they shouldn't be saying anything to an 11yo with tiny boobs.)


I dont' believe the OP said what size her daughter was. What makes you think an 11 year old has tiny boobs? I wore a 38 C when I was 11.


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urchin_grey* 

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that there is a reason that a school may enforce this rule. (Though, like I said, they shouldn't be saying anything to an 11yo with tiny boobs.) And, I didn't wear a bra to school even after that rule when we didn't have to dress out. I didn't get caught though because you couldn't tell one way or the other on me!










Seems to me like in your example, the problems were CAUSED by the school creating a "you must wear a bra" rule.


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## stayinghome

If it comes up again, I'd let the principal in on everything. I can't even imagine a teacher having the audacity to think they have a say in the matter.







:

Good for you for sticking up for your daughter!


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## urchin_grey

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Seems to me like in your example, the problems were CAUSED by the school creating a "you must wear a bra" rule.

No, THEY did it before the rule was made. *I* did it because I had NO boobs and you couldn't tell one way or the other on me.


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## dewi

As a teenager, my school called my parents numerous times and asked to have me wear a bra and socks to school. My parents mentioned it to me and I said the teachers could kiss my ass before I would wear a bra.
And I purposely wore clogs in the snow without socks to annoy everyone since my feet were not cold![

Hang on to your ideals and do not rush your child to grow up because the world around her wants her to grow up too fast.


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## karinasusy

Bras were interesting to me when I first got one. Then, through most of high school, I don't think I ever wore one. Didn't need to and I referred to them as sweat collectors (still do). I have protruding nipple problem almost all the time, bra or no bra, except if I wear a padded bra, which will never happen because I HATE padded bras. On the weekends and holidays, I almost never wear a bra. Even at work sometimes, like today, I don't wear a bra; although I do try to be discreet with my nipple problem, crossing my arms or wearing dark colours.

It's amazing how this thread can go on and on about something so ridiculous.

Did we ever stop to think that not wearing a bra is actually good for breast health?? Well, it is.


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## KrystalC

Good for you for sticking up for your daughter! That teacher was WAYYYY out of line and had no business sending a note home telling you what your daughter should and should not wear. Furthermore, saying "WE" wear bras when "WE" have breasts is overstepping her boundaries. Your daughter does not exist within her teacher's collective "we"

Your daughter should have the ability to choose whether or not she wants to wear a bra. That teacher has no business telling her otherwise!! I'd take this matter to the principal just so he/she knows what was said/done and that you felt it was entirely inappropriate.

To add to that, I actually worked in an office that required all women to wear "appropriate undergarments" and pantyhose every single day. I went commando and only wore knee-highs or trouser socks and they were never any the wiser. I did wear a bra because I feel very uncomfortable without one and even moreso when having to go up and down stairs all day long, as I had to do in that office. Had someone mentioned that they didn't think I was wearing underwear, they would have been in for it.... as they shouldn't be looking hard enough to notice. I'm certainly not one to sacrifice my personal comfort for the benefit of some jerk who wants to institute some stupid rule with regard to my lack of underwear ;p


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## anarchamama

Sounds like you're handling it well. I would've lost my $hit if anyone tried to tell me or anyone else what kind of underwear to wear. I might be very uncomfortable with the way some kids dress, but the solution is talking about social issues and pressures not forcing anyone to do anything. And it doesen't matter WHY anyone does or does not want to wear something. big,small,comfort,discomfort, showing off,hiding,sexy,not sexy,other look, or not.....for the love of god. The bottom line is very simple to me, if we cannot teach women that their bodies are sacred and what they do with (on) them is thier buisiness and their business only then we make it harder for them to refuse unwanted sexual advances and less safe for them to speak out about assult.


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## Blu Razzberri

Maybe we should all just be sent back to our respective planets (mars/venus) so that this kind of thing doesn't become an issue.










I'm sorry you're dealing with this! Puberty is never an easy time, much less when your teacher is shining a spotlight right on an issue you'd rather didn't exist!

Puberty is that time when you start to wish you were just a kid again!


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## Nankay

Hi! orginal poster, here....

The closest thing to policy on undergarments I could find was in the High School student handbook:

*Students are expected to adhere to reasonable levels of cleanliness and modesty. Students are expected to wear clothing that is
appropriate to their age level and that does not disrupt the school or educational environment. Students are encouraged not to wear midriff blouses, bibs with sports bras, boxer shorts or any item of clothing without appropriate undergarments or with undergarments showing*.

Sooo.......encouraged not to, but not expressly forbidden from going braless.


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## Babes in arms

While I don't think that the teacher should be dictating what undergarments your daughter wears, I do think that you should consider how not wearing bras makes your daughter feel. It should be a "You are free to wear one or not wear one" kind of environment. You don't want her ridiculed. You don't want her embarrassed. A lot of it depends on your daughter. My dd would be mortified if someone could see the details of her breasts through her shirt. It might not bother other girls as much. Keep in mind that while not all kids are morons, plenty of them are cruel. I would not want to put my dd in a position where she would face public humiliation. Feminism is great. Bralessness is freedom. But, it can be freedom in college or beyond. It might not be the best battle for an 11 yod to face.


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## andreac

She said in her first post that her daughter had bras, but was choosing not to wear them.


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## Sijae

I didn't read the whole thread but .... Hell I think the whole thing is ridiculous. Now we are so prudish as to have to have clothes under our clothes so that no one will suspect we are actually human underneath there and have tits like the rest of the world?







: Breasts are breasts are breasts .... every body has them.

Anyway I would say honey wear what you want! In fact I would march into the school without a bra on myself (and I do NOT have small boobs) and let them know that unless my daughter is coming to school naked , its none of their business what she has on under her clothes. How dare they try to regular undergarments!







:

Laura


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## ared1

Quote:

It is the Royal We in the teacher's response that really bugs me. She shouldn't get to decide what is appropriate undergarments for everyone based on what she and her daughters might wear.
Umm, yea..is she the "appropriate" master for the school? Does she line all the girls up and make a check by their name. "this one needs a bra, this one need to brush her hair" WTH?
Let me say that I would force my daughter to wear a bra to school.







:
While she has what I would call large breast buds and not boobs, I find it a matter of modesty. She wears a lot of trendy, form fitting, shirts and the material is not very thick. I do think it is distracting. However, the note would have pushed me over the edge. I have issues with authority and couldn't make it through highschool because of it. I find myself fighting stupid crap like this all the time and I LOVE it because I am no longer the student and they are forced to actually listen. I can't stand the idea of a teacher telling her/me that my DD would HAVE to wear one. Nope, nada, noway! just because I feel it is appropriate to wear one, doesn't mean everyone else should. I know you really didn't ask for my personal opinion on wether a bra needs to be worn, I wanted you to know that even though I would (do) make my daughter wear a bra, I still feel it was wrong of the teacher to send the note home.


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## momslittleangel

My dd is 12 almost fully developed (36 B to big kind of scary) period n' all (I still think shes to young)! I got a simular note from her teacher I went to see her teacher because dd only likes wearing bras without pads but u see the nipples! Her teacher said it was unexeptable to not wear a *PADDED BRA* (for some reason shes the only amost developed)! I simpily told her teacher it is MY dds personal choice what kind of bra she wants to wear! the next day dd said she wanted to go bra shopping we found some bras wear the nipples dint wear still comertable to her. she got another note from her teacher saying thank u for buying your daughter padded bras (even though their not) the boys are much calmer around her and i was disgusted my advice find comfterable bras for her and yell at the teacher lol.....







:







:







:


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## papercranegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momslittleangel* 
she got another note from her teacher saying thank u for buying your daughter padded bras (even though their not) the boys are much calmer around her


If that's the case then the teacher and administrators need to have a talk with those boys about what is and what is not acceptable in a work environment. sheesh. And we wonder why there's still rampant sexual harassment...


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## TinkerBelle

Quote:


Originally Posted by *papercranegirl* 
If that's the case then the teacher and administrators need to have a talk with those boys about what is and what is not acceptable in a work environment. sheesh. And we wonder why there's still rampant sexual harassment...


I am the mother of 3 boys and will not be having any more children. If I ever found out that one of my boys was acting like a monkey in heat and harassing some girl, I would be having a serious talk with my son. I will NOT abide a bully of any kind. Let me just say that by the time I finished discussing the matter, he would FULLY understand just how unacceptable that kind of rude behavior is.


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## Mybabymommy

Ask dd what she thinks it was about (incase there is more to the story) and than let her go braless. Who's checking for bras....and if you find someone whi is check, well that's a whole 'nother problem.

As long as she is comfortable and appropriate for school, it's nobodies business what she wears for underwear!


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## momslittleangel

let me add one more thing to my last post appearently (dd just told me last night) but the boys had been talked to many a times before but what i found wierd was the teaacher never told me anything about this in the conference I would have done somthing else like get her some more bras so she was not being harassed! I love dd to much 4 her to be harrassed over something so dumb as a bra


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## Mybabymommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nankay* 
update --talk w/teacher

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I saw dd's teacher today. I said I was wondering why she felt the need to send a note home regarding dd's bra (or lack thereof). The teacher looked at me blankly and said, "because she's not wearing one." (Umm, ok, duh) I asked if that was a problem. Her answer was, "We wear bras when we have breasts. It's just a basic appropriate clothing/hygiene thing." I said I was trying very hard to not make this an issue for either dd or the teacher. I didn't want to force dd to wear a bra when she wasn't comfortable with one. The teacher again re-stated that it was a matter of dressing appropriately and that dd "would get used to wearing one ' if she had to everday. I told her that I would gently encourage dd to wear a bra or undershirt, but I would not FORCE her to wear one and left it at that.
I am determined not to make this a battle. The teacher can send home another note if she likes, but I think she knows now that she cannot force my dd to wear a bra just because she says so.

Good job mama, If you got another note home, I'd maybe mention to the teach that I was becoming uncomfortable with her "creepy" interest in my dd.

On the other hand, as a first note home I don't really see that it is a big deal. A lot of parenting is shoved on the teacher plates these days and she may have been genuine in her concern.


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## mommy68

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
You might try talking to the teacher to find out where she is coming from and go from there. Then if you still feel she has crossed the line, go from there.

I agree. While I think it's kind of odd that the teacher brought this subject up, it may be that she noticed something in class that told her to bring it to your attention. Perhaps some boys are staring at your daughter and she is trying to save her from potential embrassment.


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## CrunchyMamaOf3

: Just another issue with society seeing breasts as something purely sexual..

Edited:
I'm coming in real late on this, I was replying to the first post, not the updates that I have not read yet or anything.


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## Leilalu

Yk, unless my dd felt more comfortable with one, I don't know that I would want my dd wearing a bra at that age.

I think I wore one in 5th grade occasionally. I did have a friend who was very large chested by that time though, and wore one and she did get teased, a lot.

I think it is sad that girls ware made to wear what I consider adult undergarments at such an early age.


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## antannie

Didn't read all the posts so it may have been covered. Most women wear bras that are uncomfortable because they don't fit right. my daughter wears a sports bra cause she is a bit of a jock and when she discovered boys looking at her she decided sweatshirts and loose shirts where the right attire for school.

I am large breasted and as a kid I was embarrased wearing a bra because I thought every one would know I had one on. If the daughter requested the bras she may want to wear one but is not for any number of reasons ie fit,comfort of bra, fear of someone *knowing* she is wearing one.

I am glad our school requires respectful dress ie no skin or sayins on clothes that might be offensive and one day she did get told her shirt was offensive (I did too but try telling a 12 year old girl to change right before the school bus arrives) and I felt ok about that but they have an upfront policy so we all know where we stand. Note home was not ok way to handle it in may opinion and I would be annoyed too.

comfortable bra wearing hairy mama to an expanding breasted 12 year old.


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## deuxceleste

any updates on this? I've been following this for forever!

i wanna know! i wanna know!


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## 2tadpoles

Just wanted to say that I haven't read all the posts here. From there....

First, I'm not sure how big "full-grown, adult-sized" boobs are. I'm 35 years old and am barely an A-cup. I've known 11yo girls who are waaaay more developed than I am.

Secondly, if anyone thinks that wearing a bra is going to ward off ill-mannered boys, you're dead wrong. Like I said, I'm small chested. No boy ever grabbed at my chest in school. But I can't tell you how many times a hand has found its way to my rear end. I'm rather shapely in that area.

If your daughter wears jeans, boys will be checking out her butt. If she wears a skirt, they'll be looking at her legs. And yes, if she has anything in the chest area, they'll be looking there, too.

But the idea that girls are responsible for a boy's hormones, sickens me. That's pretty close to saying that girls who dress in a certain way are "asking for it"..... or that a girl who wears a short skirt deserves to be raped, because she provoked the male.

Lastly, I don't think a teacher has any right to tell students what kind of underwear to put on, no matter how the student is built. As long as nothing is see-through and stuff isn't hanging out, that's all that should matter.


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## Nankay

Hi All..
I'm the original poster. Nothing new to report, but we do have parent-teacher conferences in a couple of days, so I'll let you know if the teacher says anything more. Since the note, dd has been going braless even more. She now has 3 different styles and hates them all. I'm not forcing the issue and I'm not spending any more money buying something that will not be worn.


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## deuxceleste

WELL???


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## Nankay

Sorry..op here...

Conferences were Thursday and not a word was said. So I guess that's the end of it. Yay!


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## deuxceleste




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## Catsinthecradle

The teacher has no right to dictate the underwear your child wears, but I still wanted to add a bra comment.

When I was in the 6th grade, my mom decided that I needed to wear a "chemise" which was the top half of a slip. I refused, so she took me shopping for a bra. I was mortified by the experience - the sales lady, the chance that someone I knew would see me there... the whole thing.

I got my bras, complete with thin shoulder straps, and hooks in the back. I was not pleased. I went home and cried up on the hill with my rabbits.

Now, I wear racer back sport bras. As a matter of fact, I wear them instead of shirts. They come in all colors and designs, and slip on and off easily. I usually get them at Ross, so they don't cost much. I like a compacted look; I can't stand bouncing boobs... but that's just me.


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## HerthElde

Wow, I just read the whole thread and I'm glad you stood up for your dd







I think society really needs to get over its fear of nipples . . .
Plus, bras cause sagging, despite our conditioning to believe it prevents it. Underwire bras are the worst for soooooo many reasons, imo.

Personally, I do wear a sports bra sometimes when I'm out in public in certain situations because even though I don't feel I need one logically, my conditioning has yet to catch up with my logic


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