# help! intense 4 month old screams bloody murder at naptimes



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

My almost 4 month old DS is a rather intense baby. When he doesn't like something he screams very loudly, arches his back, & flails around. Lately he's decided that he's going to get himself extremely worked up at naptimes & bedtime, and I cannot figure out a good way to calm him down & get him to sleep. I swaddle him tightly because otherwise he flails around so much with his arms that he scratches me & gets himself even more worked up. I've tried rocking him, nursing him (occasionally works but usually he starts popping on and off and flailing around after a few minutes), bouncing him vigorously up and down (I can't even begin to count the number of hours I've spent doing this since his birth--it used to work really well but isn't helping much now), wearing him (occasionally works but he gets his arms out and flails around and gets all worked up), laying him down...I'm probably forgetting a few things. I used to hold him swaddled with his stomach against mine and bounce him up amd down while he has his binky but now he turns his head from side to side constantly and knocks the binky out. Sometimes he'll go to sleep if I turn the vacuum on, stand 2 feet from it, and hold him upright while he's swaddled and has his binky...but only if I can keep him calm enough so he'll let me hold his head still so he doesn't knock the binky out turning his head from side to side. Pleae help me come up with some other ways to try to get him to sleep. I am really at my wits' end--spending 20-30-40 minutes several times a day trying to get a screaming baby to sleep is really NOT FUN.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

my DS does the same thing.. he is almost 7 months now. sometimes he falls asleep willingly but most of the time it's a fight. sounds like you are trying just about everything.. no advice just know i'm there too!


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2007)

Is it just at nap/bed time that he's doing this? I guess I mean is it directly related to going to bed, or is it at other times too?
If it's related to bed, have you tried really tiring him out. my LO doesn't sleep well and has trouble falling asleep (even when she's cranky and rubbing red eyes) unless we really tired her out, like play and do tummy time. So far the no fail way has been changing the environment. If she's cross and can't get to sleep we bundle up (we're in Ottawa), I wear her, and we go for a walk. I think sometimes they get stuck in the same old same old and just a quick change of environment can help to snap them out of it. Also does he like baths? My girl loves the bath and its a good way to really stimulate her an hour or so before a nap so she's nice and tired. Hmmmm, I'll keep thinking and write more if I come up with anything else!!


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## Delicateflower (Feb 1, 2009)

Have you tired starting earlier? He might be overtired before you start.

At one stage I had to have a bit of action but not too much happening to help distract one of my babies from falling asleep. I don't think she liked the feeling of it. I used to put her in the wrap, and walk around talking on the phone.


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## kjoy2 (Sep 21, 2007)

My girls were the same way. I used the no-cry sleep solution to teach them to fall asleep. There was no way I could deal with two screaming-bloody-murder-overtired babies all day long, and no way to get them to fall asleep without an abundance of parental tricks (as you are describing). NCSS helped me to get them to fall asleep on their own, in their cribs, and to set up a routine that ensured quality sleep for them and, therefore, resulted in much happier babies and mom. HTH!


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## Megan73 (May 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kjoy2* 
My girls were the same way. I used the no-cry sleep solution to teach them to fall asleep.

Can you give us the gist of it?


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## joshs_girl (Dec 8, 2006)

My little widget is/was the same way. The easiest thing to do was to put her in the Moby (specifically the Moby, the other wraps/slings/carriers weren't tight enough) and let her feed/paci herself off to sleep. I either do tummy to tummy or a cradle hold with her (even at six months!). The wrap keeps her feet from kicking me and most of the time, I can tuck one arm under my armpit to hold still, hold the other hand with one of my hands, and use my free arm to try to hold the paci in. I also usually end up vacuuming to calm her down. And I keep moving until she's drifted off.

The harder way (we've been working on this for three weeks now) is establishing a naptime routine. I was always dumbfounded because she goes down so well at night but naptimes were just hell. Then I realized it's because we don't have a set naptime routine. Let me say this, this would not have worked at four months. At that point, Marion still wasn't able to really be put on a routine, so hold on to this until closer to five months.

I first decided that I didn't want to be tied to the house all day waiting for her to fall asleep, so we just do whatever works for her morning nap. Most days, I go for a run, then end up walking another three or four miles to keep her asleep. The compromise was for me to commit to being at home every afternoon at the same time for her to get in an afternoon nap. So I picked the time she seemed to be most likely to fall asleep (after charting her sleep for a week) and I start naptime about 30 minutes before that. I sit her in my lap, we sing some songs, read a story, then I swaddle her. If she's crazy upset, I hold her and feed her. If she's okay, then I go on a lay her down in our bed and feed her (or if she'll take the paci, I do that.) Some of the days, when she realized she was being put to bed, I had to put my legs over hers to hold them down, and pin her arms down with my hands. Some days, she'd be just fine by herself. And of course, I stayed with her the whole nap to snuggle her, feed her, shush her, whatever it takes to get her down for a while.

This finished up the third week of doing it, and we've had five days this week of no fuss, no crying, drifting off to sleep as I just sit beside her. She falls asleep every single day at 2:30 like clockwork. Today, she (and I!) took a three hour nap together and she only woke up once to eat. One day, I hope to be able to lay her down and just walk away, but for now, I enjoy the forced rest period for mama too. It's hard committing to being home at the same time every day and I've had to ease up on my own expectations (like, laundry might sit in the dryer for an extra day before getting folded) but something Dr Sears said in his sleep book really stuck with me and it was that we need to invest in our children's sleep. And around our house, sleep is definitely an investment - but happily, one that's paying off!

So all of this to say, he's probably fighting so hard because he's overtired and he just doesn't know how to go to sleep by himself. So establishing a routine (both in what you do and what time you do it) will help him transition from walking to sleep and he knows what's going to come next and he'll start to look forward to sleep. And I know that every baby is different, but I saw a huge improvement between months five and six when it came to napping vs four months old.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I need to read NCSS again...it didn't help at all with DD but the toddler one helped some once she got older. And I do think he is overtired, but when I try to get him to sleep as soon as I think he's tired, he doesn't go to sleep. Tonight he ended up laying on the floor next to the turned-on vacuum for 10 minutes while he screamed himself past the point of hysteria...after 45 minutes of trying everything to get him to sleep & lots of screaming, I couldn't take it anymore and had to walk away for a bit. A schedule might help too, but we've had such a busy schedule lately that it hasn't been possible. Hopefully next month things will settle down some and I'll be able to keep the running around to one, or at the most two, mornings a week. We have unbreakable commitments 3 evenings a week already, and I'd be very happy if I didn't have to go out more than one other time a week. (Did I mention that he tends to have screaming fits every time we go anywhere in the car??) And hopefully soon he'll go to just 2 long naps a day, instead of 2 short & 2 longish naps a day.


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## terrainthailand (Mar 31, 2008)

mine is a bit younger than yours, but I feel like I could have written this post!! I spend soooo much time holding mine tummy to tummy and doing the 'bouncy walk' around the house. About half the time it works like a charm, the other half, she screams and cries and turns her head all around, knocking the paci out of her mouth. Like a pp said, it is so bizarre because bedtime is a breeze. At night I lay her down sleepy but awake and she usually falls asleep peacefully (I usually have to go in once or twice for a quick cuddle, pat, or nurse though). As she gets heavier it is getting harder to do the bouncy walk... I'm thinking about trying to employ our bedtime approach to naps but am afraid it will result in no nap at all.

One small suggestion I had, even though I often think overtiredness is the problem, rather than undertiredness... sometimes when she fusses I just put her down to play for another 15 to 30 minutes - she calms down and often we are more successful the next time I try.


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## maryeb (Aug 8, 2005)

Sorry mama! Ds2 is kind of like this-as in, he was born with a timer that said if he wasn't in the sling and freshly peed and diapered by 7pm, there would be screaming. Lots of screaming until he passed out. Quite a difference from ds1. So, I try hard to make it easy for us and get him ready around 6:30. Then I sling him (kangarookorner fleece sling-it's very snug) and go about my business, doing laundry, even running the vacuum b/c it puts him to sleep! So I usually vacuum every night







. If he doesn't fall asleep this way, since he won't nurse to sleep, I go into a quiet and dark room and do squats. Usually puts him right out. I know this wouldn't work for every mom, my dh takes care of ds1 during this. But I say look at the times he is tired and get him ready before those times. Try a reeeally snug sling/wrap. See if he needs to pee before sleeping. What about taking a walk for napping once a day? Good luck!!!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I actually got him to sleep without a fuss for his first nap today







I swaddled him really tightly and sat in the rocking chair for a bit with him facing away from me so he could see. When he got tired of that I held him upright & tummy to tummy, stuck his binky in and held his head to one side. It still took probably 10-15 more minutes of gentle bouncing, but at least he didn't yell. If that keeps working maybe I can arrange it so after a few minutes of standing and bouncing I can sit down and rock him...he's awfully heavy to hold otherwise for very long.

Yesterday was pretty good, too...only one screaming episode although two of the naps were taken in the wrap during walks. I wouldn't mind wearing him to sleep one nap a day, but a lot of times he gets really crabby when he's wrapped & tired. It works better if I can go for a walk outside but we live in the windiest city in the US (I'm not kidding...it's actually been designated the windiest city {population 50,000 or greater} in the US!) and a lot of times it is too windy to go for a walk with a baby.


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## juliav (Nov 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Yesterday was pretty good, too...only one screaming episode although two of the naps were taken in the wrap during walks. I wouldn't mind wearing him to sleep one nap a day, but a lot of times he gets really crabby when he's wrapped & tired. It works better if I can go for a walk outside but we live in the windiest city in the US (I'm not kidding...it's actually been designated the windiest city {population 50,000 or greater} in the US!) and a lot of times it is too windy to go for a walk with a baby.

I hear ya...walks are the best when my babe gets cross and overtired and can't fall asleep. We're just outside of Ottawa on a lake, so aside from the frosty temps during the deep freeze we also get a nice cold northerly wind...it has definitely been a challenge for us to get out daily this winter, we tried, but some days I just couldn't muster the courage


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

with my ds we have to literally HOLD HIM DOWN and rock him to get him to sleep. he doesn't like it for the first few minutes, but once he finally calms down he relaxes and falls asleep (or relaxes and nurses to sleep). He also responds well to being in a carrier, and sometimes I have to put a thin blanket over his head so he can't see anything and get distracted.

sleep fighting, and sleep deprivation are the worst i think..


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I actually got him to sleep without a fuss for his first nap today







I swaddled him really tightly and sat in the rocking chair for a bit with him facing away from me so he could see. When he got tired of that I held him upright & tummy to tummy, stuck his binky in and held his head to one side. It still took probably 10-15 more minutes of gentle bouncing, but at least he didn't yell. If that keeps working maybe I can arrange it so after a few minutes of standing and bouncing I can sit down and rock him...he's awfully heavy to hold otherwise for very long.

Rocking and swaddling are also working for my little sleep fighter. It also really helps him to calm down if the room is completely dark and there is a fan going. I highly recommend trying those things if you haven't already.

ETA - just another little tip...if he is really upset and screaming, I turn the fan on high so it is loud enough for him to hear it and calm down, then I turn it down to low and leave it on during his nap.


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## nudhistbudhist (Jan 13, 2009)

When DS was that age he was exactly the same. Swddling tight, then putting him tummy down on my knees and patting his butt fairly firmly was one of my tricks. The other thing that i still do when he is super hyped but overtired and struggling when I'm trying to get him to sleep, is rhythmicaly "beat" ( not like hit like to hurt, but with a fist, and firmly, like beating a drum) a heart beat pattern on either his back or chest, depending which was he is laying. I start out a bit fast, to match his energy level and catch his attention, and when he notices it and tunes in, I start to slow it down until hes calm, and eventually I can stop. Its almost like he lets me get out his energy catharticly. BTW this works AMAZINGLY for car seat screamers. I make the heartbeat pattern loudly on the plastic part of the seat wiith my fist. He goes to sleep almost instantly. I think it might remind them of being in utero and hearing our heart. hope this helps!


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

I found that not having a schedule for my infants worked really well.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sharlla* 
I found that not having a schedule for my infants worked really well.

I don't think that the OP is trying to 'schedule' naps. it is that she is trying to get her LO to sleep when he is tired, and he is fighting it. my DS will NOT go to sleep without some serious help, no matter how tired he is. if i don't help him to sleep, he is incredibly fussy/cranky.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sharlla* 
I found that not having a schedule for my infants worked really well.

I don't recall anyone saying they were trying to get their baby to sleep just so they could maintain a schedule.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
DS will NOT go to sleep without some serious help, no matter how tired he is. if i don't help him to sleep, he is incredibly fussy/cranky.

Same here. Some babies just have a hard time transitioning to sleep. I think those people who have babies that just pass out in their bouncy seat or whatever just might not understand how hard it is to deal with a baby that needs so much help.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
Same here. Some babies just have a hard time transitioning to sleep. I think those people who have babies that just pass out in their bouncy seat or whatever just might not understand how hard it is to deal with a baby that needs so much help.

Yeah...I haven't been trying to schedule him but I think a relaxed schedule (or being out and about less at least) might actually help him go to sleep easier. Unfortunately I haven't yet been blessed with a baby who will just go to sleep easily...DD was a much more mellow baby & didn't get crabby when she was tired, but it took her FOREVER to go to sleep. I'm a bit envious of those people who have babies who just magically sleep in the car seats and they tote them around from place to place and the babies just...stay asleep. Even as a newborn neither of mine would do that.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Yeah...I haven't been trying to schedule him but I think a relaxed schedule (or being out and about less at least) might actually help him go to sleep easier.

I agree that figuring out baby's natural sleep rhythm like joshs_girl described and working with that makes things easier, especially with babies like this. If I can catch my son before he goes around the bend, thing go so much better. I've been keeping a sleep log and at almost 6 months there is sort of a pattern developing.


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## Cartesia (Mar 26, 2008)

Hi -
I also have an intense LO who has always needed major parenting for napping.

Sounds like your DS is a bouncing-addict like mine - do you have an excercise ball? I put my DS in a sling and bounce him on an excercise ball for most of his naps. And by bouncing, I mean that I bounce him THE WHOLE NAP. I'm doing it right now, actually. He used to fuss/cry most of the time and I used to have to bounce super vigorously and I used to have to always cover his head but then I added a very consistent pre-nap routine for a month - white noise, lavender oil, swaddle and holding him singing "twinkle twinkle little star". I've also added a butt-pat as I bounce (like another poster described, fast at first and then heart-beat). And I've also noticed that his morning nap is best not more than 60-90 minutes after he wakes up for the day.

Since these changes he has been falling asleep in 5-10 minutes, usually no fuss. I recently stopped covering his head & now he has been able to fall asleep that way. I have also been able to gradually reduce the bouncing - it used to be that there was no way I'd be able to type and now I can. My hope is that I will slowly be able to substitute the routine & butt patting for the bouncing. I am also doing the butt-patting at night - he sleeps better at night, so I am hoping that the butt-pat association at night will transfer to his naps.

It seems ridiculous that I am literally doing aerobics while my LO naps, but for me it is way more relaxing then dealing with an unhappy tired babe. This way I know he is sleeping, I can do stuff online and his naps are gradually getting longer and easier. The other day I actually lay him down on the bed, he smiled at me and fell asleep. I don't know if that will EVER happen again but I do see an improvement overall.

good luck to all of us with sleep resistors!


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## Starfish11 (Apr 4, 2008)

You've gotten some great tips so far. Just wanted to add in that the 5 s's per Dr. Karp are awesome!

here's a link:

http://www.babyslumber.com/happiestbaby.html

These have been a godsend for us.

Also, we like tell ourselves that we are SO LUCKY to have a baby that is so happy to be awake and alive that she hates to go to sleep







Dr. Sears talks about framing moments like this in a positive light. It's hard to do with these fight sleepers for sure. At this point, DH and I use our positive framing as a joke between us which lightens the mood and releases our anxiety over the wailing lunatic


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

That was such a hard time for my intense DD, who's now 2 and a half. She always needed to be parented to sleep. She is a sleep fighter, though not as bad as some children I've read about on here.

For us, it ebbs and flows. She has easier sleep stretches and harder periods.

Around 6 months, I started trying to follow the 2-3-4 rule (though it was more like 2.5-3.5-4.5 for my high needs, intense, spirited girl). Basically, 2 hours after she woke for the day, she went down for a morning nap. 3 hours after waking from that, she went down for an afternoon nap. 4 hours after waking from that, she went down for the night.

It was a sanity saver for a long time. That, combined with the 5 Ss and a dark room, took (most days) or go-to-sleep routine from 45 minutes down to about 10-15. And no one was screaming or crying, which was a LOT nicer.


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## vegancat (Mar 24, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Delicateflower* 
Have you tired starting earlier? He might be overtired before you start.

Yep that's what I was thinking. DD does this if she's too tired or is startled awake.


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