# Ugh....teens.....WWYD??



## KentuckyDoulaMama (Mar 11, 2004)

give me a whole room full of temper-tantrum throwing 2yos in exchange for just 1 teen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, my 16 yo got her first job. All along I've been trying to encourage her to get a job locally because we are so stretched with many responsibilities and crazy schedules that it would be soooo much easier for her to get something close. But I guess there are no "cool" places to work in our town or the next.

So, she goes with a friend to the city to fill out an application for a new ice cream shop that just opened. She made it sound like she was just riding with a friend and they were both picking up applications. We had no real discussion about her possibly working there. Many times she'll leave a message and just state what she's going to do, not ask and then hang up with no further details.
Anyhow, she comes home and bingo! she got hired. Okay, we begin to discuss this and the job is 35 mins away each way. She assures me up and down that she's discussed with the manager that she is dependent on the friend who also got hired for transportation and it was agreed (so she says) that they will both be on schedule the same times and it wouldnt be a problem.
So, okay....we'll see how this goes.
This was her first weekend to work and my ex'dh's weekend to have the kids.

Dd called me yesterday to ask if I could come pick her up at 10pm tonight cause she wasnt put on the same shift with her friend this weekend. I told her that I couldn't. Monday is my first day back to classes. We have to be there at 7am which means I have to get up at 5am. If I pick her up, it would mean I woudn't get to sleep until at least midnight as I have horrible insomnia too and it takes me a long time to get to sleep after climbing into bed. We have a test the first day back, first thing. I HAVE to get some sleep.

I tried to tell her this while she was very defensive and mouthy. She said, fine then I'll walk home" and hung up on me.

So, fast forward to tonight. Its about 8:45 pm and exdh brings two of the three girls back home. I figure dd made arrangements with her father to get a ride home tonight, as I've not heard back from her about it.
9:15 rolls around and I call her father to make sure. He said he told her no also.
So.........she's gone off to work until 10pm on a school night and has not secured herself a ride home. Exdh gets all high and mighty and pissy with me.
I say I'm going to call where she's working to see if she got a ride home. He says that I would be wrong to do that, it would embarrass her.
Well, I say, I guess she should have been more responsible to make sure she had arranged for a ride home.
He calls me irresponsible for leaving her there.







: Did I say I was leaving her there? DUH! Of course I'm not going to leave her there! And she knows it, which is part of the problem. She *knows* she will be picked up no matter what, she knows I have no choice to do so AFTER I've already told her no and explained why.

Dont get me wrong I usually make *any* sacrifices needed for my kids but this one night was a BAD night to be doing this late night running around. She doesnt care though.
And you know, her father certainly isn't rushing out to get her - just sitting back and criticizing me. Hmmm...it was his weekend, perhaps his responsibility to get her home?

I really, really dislike the teen years. And I really, really, really, really dislike my exdh.

Must go get my child now.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Yeah, I'd say you had no choice but to go get the lovely. With the way teens drive, especially with friends in the car, I would do everything to get dd to put in her two-week notice and either not work or get a job in town. It's a hard age but this is where they find their land feet.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

I will warn you right off the bat that I appear to be a lot more hard core than a lot of other people here, so it my opinion doesn't fit then please feel free to ignore it.
IMHO, working as a teenager is a luxury, as it is almost always done for spending money. Working until 10 on a school night and not getting home until 10;30, not into to be until 11:00 is not acceptable. If it were me I would place a phone call to her boss and explain the situation, if that doesn't remedy it then she loses the job. I worked at Jack-In-The-Box to earn money. Seriously not cool, but I survived and so can she. I have no doubt that her attitude will explode all over you if this is the route you take, so in the end you have to decide if you want to deal with it. Good luck.

Namaste,

Michelle


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## KentuckyDoulaMama (Mar 11, 2004)

Thanks ladies.
Between my looney exdh and my teens I'm constantly questioning myself.

My dh insisted on going to get her even though he was in bed and its cold and pouring rain here....gotta love him.
But he knew at this point in time, it was wisest that he go retrieve her









I'd like to sit her down and talk senisbly with her, but she just flies off the bat and gets all unreasonable and says stupid crap (hmmm just like her father unfortunately) and then stomps up to her room and slams doors even if it is midnight and everyone else is sleeping. Very defensive and explosive (again just like her dad....I dont tell her that but it's true!) while I'm sitting there trying to formulate how I'm going to approach her in a gentle, respectful way without setting her off or provoking her in any way.....







:

I think I'm just not going to say anything to her when she gets home tonight except hello and goodnight.


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

I'd tell her she's calling in tomorrow and quitting. That if she wants a job, she can get one close or not at all and let her go slam her door. (I'm fed up with my own hormonal pre-teen lately!) She can grow up and learn from her mistakes when it's not costing the rest of the family. I am pretty hardassed, so you can take or leave my advice


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## SaraBravo (May 28, 2006)

so until recently i was a teen i just turned 20. i would tell her that she can only have a job that she can get to. she knew in advance that u were not available to drive her around like that. if she slams her door one more time she would have to quitte and she would not be able to get another job until she realized u weren't a taxi. oh and just telling u where she is instead of asking just doesnt fly. the whole well there is nothing i can do is stupid ur the parent there is always something to do. u have to show them that even though they r growing up and are starting to have lives of their own u r in charge no matter what. she either gets a job close to home or not at all and she either asks before she goes and leaves complete contact info or she doesnt go out. simple rules to follow. she getsa job and gets to go out but has a few things she has to do so that u the parent r still in charge and everyone is happy. but thats just me because thats how it was in my family. they said my parents were strict but i actually got to do more than they did. i understood that if i make them happy they will let me do what i want within reason of course


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## SaraBravo (May 28, 2006)

dont walk on egg shells with ur child it just gives her more power. im speaking from experience.


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## SaraBravo (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman* 
I will warn you right off the bat that I appear to be a lot more hard core than a lot of other people here, so it my opinion doesn't fit then please feel free to ignore it.
IMHO, working as a teenager is a luxury, as it is almost always done for spending money. Working until 10 on a school night and not getting home until 10;30, not into to be until 11:00 is not acceptable. If it were me I would place a phone call to her boss and explain the situation, if that doesn't remedy it then she loses the job. I worked at Jack-In-The-Box to earn money. Seriously not cool, but I survived and so can she. I have no doubt that her attitude will explode all over you if this is the route you take, so in the end you have to decide if you want to deal with it. Good luck.

Namaste,

Michelle

i love jack- in the box! i am from calibut i live in ga and there isn't a single jack-in the box in the whole state not to mention an in-n-out. but i know thats not what this thread is about i just had to add that


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

I don't think that teens having jobs is a luxury. I think that there's no better way to learn about the real world than being in it.

That being said, I think she needs to find a job within walking or biking distance. Or on a bus route, if you have one.

My kids learned a long time ago that slamming doors resulted in their doors being taken off the hinges.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

There isn't anything equitable about this sitation. I would have a serious talk with your child.


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## Hunnibunni (Jan 8, 2007)

Wow~ I so remember being this age (& that dramatic) & eggshells arent going to benefit anyone.

I am also on the HardAss Team (go team!)

A job is a responsibility. If she wants that responsibility she has got to earn it- lack of planning, ignoring your parental decisions, mouthiness & door slamming all show she is not ready.

Sit her down for a serious heart to heart. Tell her that last night was her one "free pass" to act that way.

Then explain the rules -she must get to & from her job on her OWN steam- not yours, her Dads or her friends.

& keep in your mind she was given her ONE free pass- next time there must be a punishment & the next door slamming incident - remove the door. Not kidding.








Good Luck.


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## Hera (Feb 4, 2002)

I realize this has already happened, but one solution I thought of was calling a cab and having her pay for it. I know that would be expensive, but it puts the responsibility squarely where it should be.

Although, it seems like the boss who messed up the schedules is really the problem. Then again, it seems like she must have known her hours when she got there. Presumably the friend drove her in.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hera* 
I realize this has already happened, but one solution I thought of was calling a cab and having her pay for it. I know that would be expensive, but it puts the responsibility squarely where it should be.

What a great idea!!!!!!!






























Namaste,

Michelle


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 

My kids learned a long time ago that slamming doors resulted in their doors being taken off the hinges.

I hope I am not reading that your children were punished for emotional outbursts by being denied privacy.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
I hope I am not reading that your children were punished for emotional outbursts by being denied privacy.

I thought that too.

As for the cab- that's a great idea... unless you have to battle to get your money back. I am assuming you'd pay for the cab and she'd have to pay you back. I still can't see this situation working in the long run.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
I don't think that teens having jobs is a luxury. I think that there's no better way to learn about the real world than being in it.

I agree - and in that "real world", mom is probably not going to be picking you up from work.

I agree with the poster who suggested a cab. I was going to say the same thing.


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
I hope I am not reading that your children were punished for emotional outbursts by being denied privacy.

How is removing a door so it doesn't get damaged or wake people up denying privacy? They can still get dressed in the bathroom, or put up a curtain. Is making kids share a room denying privacy? I don't get that one.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Well as someone who was forbidden at times from shutting my bedroom door as an older child/teen, I do see it as denying privacy. Bathrooms are communal and you can only camp out there so long. A curtain doesn't offer the same kind of privacy as a door. I don't think having siblings share a room is the same thing. IME it's a power and dominance issue--the parent has absolute power and dominance and is asserting that power and dominance by taking away the animal right to burrow and hunker down in one's den alone.

How would you feel if I took away your door, or the curtains on your windows? It still gives me a creepy feeling remembering how it felt to NEVER be able to really be alone and have privacy.


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## lesley&grace (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Synthea™* 
How is removing a door so it doesn't get damaged or wake people up denying privacy? They can still get dressed in the bathroom, or put up a curtain. Is making kids share a room denying privacy? I don't get that one.









I agree with you on this one...I knew that my door was a privilege, not a right, and that if I abused it would be taken away. My 7 year old used to kick his door when he was upset, until I told him that if it continued I would remove the door. He replied with "then Grace will get into my stuff" and I told him he'd better respect his door then. He stopped.

When I was old enough to get a job it was made very clear to me that it was not to interfere with family time, my grades or my parents schedule. I chose to babysit in the local area, and I made quite a bit of money that way, as well as did extra chores around the house to earn money.

I remember being an emotional time bomb as a child, and my parents never put up with it. As an adult I have apologized to both of them for my crazy behaviour, since as an adult I can look back and realize that my parents were not the demons I thought they were...they were two people who loved me more than anyone else did and if they were hard on me it was because they wanted me to be the best I could. Keep that in mind, your teen will be angry now, but she will see the light later. I have a friend who has no respect for her mother because her mother let her do whatever she wanted too as a teen because that was easier. According to her "I did not need a friend, I needed a parent." And she is fantastic parent to her 3 kids. Just a few things to keep in mind.
Good luck!







s


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lesley&grace* 
I agree with you on this one...I knew that my door was a privilege, not a right, and that if I abused it would be taken away.

I guess I just don't get this mindset. In general but especially on MDC with all the GD philosophy. I'm raising a child, not running a maximum security prison. Being able to close a door and experience privacy absolutely is a right once a person is of an age where they are able to be alone without being in danger and experience a sense of physical and psychological modesty. I mean, even the Geneva Convention is with me on this one, afaik. This isn't a gameboy we're talking about, it's on the list of basic human needs: food, water, sleep, shelter, physical integrity (aka not being hit or abused), and privacy while attending to bodily functions/dressing/grooming/sexuality. It's not something I would feel ethical taking away from someone else as punishment.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Synthea™* 
How is removing a door so it doesn't get damaged or wake people up denying privacy? They can still get dressed in the bathroom, or put up a curtain. Is making kids share a room denying privacy? I don't get that one.









I agree completely with you too. let the consequence fit the behavior. If you continue to slam a door you lose it, if you want the door then don't slam it. If you continue to inconvenience the family by having an unacceptable job with outstanding transportation needs, then you lose the job. If you want the job then be willing to make the arrangements necessary to keep it. Life is full of tough choices and consequences. Privilege does not come without responsibility, there are no free lunches. If the OP's daughter wants the privacy that her own bedroom and door brings, then she can act like the 16 year old that she is and not engage in disruptive behavior that besuits a 2 year old.

Namaste,

Michelle


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

Quote:

and privacy while attending to bodily functions/dressing/grooming/sexuality.
All those things can be done in the bathroom. Since teenagers should not be having sex while in their parent's house (geez, I hope everyone is with me on that one), a *bedroom* door is a privledge. As an adult, sure, we need bedroom privacy, but a kid does not. I am not all "GD", but I do not think that removing a door that gets slammed more then one time (let that one time be a warning), is un-GD.

Sometimes being a parent to a teen does require running a 'maximum security prison'. The teenage years are are delicate time between still needing your parents love and guidance and wanting to be free but not know what the hell you're doing.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Masturbation is sexuality too or should one rent a hotel room for that too...or hog the bathroom while younger siblings clamor at the door...

If one cannot even dress or sleep privately in one's bedroom why not just put a cot in the hall?


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

I guess I never thought of masturbation as a necessity







What do people do in cultures where the entire family is in one room for sleeping, eating, living?


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Maybe not necessary but 99% of people do it and better that than sex before you're mature enough to handle it.

If you treat someone like an animal, they'll definitely live up to the expectation.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Oh and those "other cultures" are irrelevant here. Lack of privacy is not being used as punishment and it applies to all equally...there are cultural customs in place to manage the resulting conflicts and issues. Not so here.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Yes, I've removed my son's door for repeated slamming. This was when he was nearly 9 years old.

At the time, he didn't care who saw him get dressed. Half the time, he walked around the house in his underwear.

He didn't keep the door closed while sleeping. None of us did.

AFAIK, he wasn't masturbating yet.

And I don't think he was peeing, pooping, or showering in his bedroom.

If you think I've treated my kid like an animal, then.... whatever! He's a well-behaved teenager that gives me almost no trouble. We get along well, enjoy each others' company, and he's a pretty great brother to his sibling. I can't imagine him ever pulling a stunt like what's been happening with the OP (no offense intended).

It isn't as if he lost his door _permanently_.


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## maggiechristina (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:

I really, really dislike the teen years.
Oh my, I was coming in here for some wisdom as I've descended on the teen years with my firstborn. And the first thing I read about is that they'll fight with you, over having a job? Give me a room full of screaming preschoolers any day! I must say, though, the cab idea is brilliant and will definitely be used in my household in the future should any oldest DS's get the idea that plans can be made w/o figuring or ignoring the logistics first. Thanks, all.

To weigh in on the no-door debate, imho, I think it becomes a real breach of privacy depending on how long the door is taken off the hinges. In most cases, a child learns how odd it feels to sit and sulk in a room without a door and modifies her behavior pretty quickly after the realization hits. I can't imagine keeping the door off for more than day at most. But one day doesn't usually mean you're violating a kid's sense of privacy or personal space. And I'm not passing judgement on anyone here who went doorless for several nights in a row -- I'm sure we can all agree in different methods for different children -- but I can see why others might object to that.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maggiechristina* 
In most cases, a child learns how odd it feels to sit and sulk in a room without a door and modifies her behavior pretty quickly after the realization hits. I can't imagine keeping the door off for more than day at most. But one day doesn't usually mean you're violating a kid's sense of privacy or personal space.

IIRC, the door was off for about three days. My eldest son is persistent and stubborn, and if you give him an inch he'll take a mile. One day wouldn't have phased him at all.

DS2 would have learned a lesson after one day. Of course, DS2 isn't the sort to slam doors, either.


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## lesley&grace (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
I guess I just don't get this mindset. In general but especially on MDC with all the GD philosophy. I'm raising a child, not running a maximum security prison. Being able to close a door and experience privacy absolutely is a right once a person is of an age where they are able to be alone without being in danger and experience a sense of physical and psychological modesty. I mean, even the Geneva Convention is with me on this one, afaik. This isn't a gameboy we're talking about, it's on the list of basic human needs: food, water, sleep, shelter, physical integrity (aka not being hit or abused), and privacy while attending to bodily functions/dressing/grooming/sexuality. It's not something I would feel ethical taking away from someone else as punishment.

I understand where you are coming from here...but I have to say that if the child is using the door in such a way as it is bothersome to others, such as slamming it in the night while other children are sleeping, or in the case of my son kicking it repeatedly to cause damage...why should they have it? It's not the same as a gameboy at all. I do not run a "maximum security prison" nor do I believe that being GD means not teaching your children to be respectful of others and their environment. Because I knew my door would be taken away, I did not slam it or damage it. My son knows this, and no longer kicks his door. If you want to be able to keep the privacy of your bedroom, then you respect the rest of the family and the environment in order to keep said door. And should the door be taken away, no one is saying the child has to tend to their body while on display. Those rights are not being violated, the bedroom is not the only room with a door that can be closed, the bathroom has one as well.
Anyway, that's off the subject at hand anyway.


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## lesley&grace (Jun 7, 2005)

OK, one more "door" comment I need to make:

Removing the door is not something that A) would have to be done for long, as pp have said and B) would need to happen more than the one time, because frankly if the child knows that you will take the door away for abusing it, in other words knows you are not making idle threats, they are not likely to do it again.
As for masturbation...so she'd have to take a night off if she wasn't comfortable about doing it with the door gone. I doubt it'll ruin her sexuality and it'll be more motivation for treating the door and the family with respect.

OK, I'm done with that part of the argument.

I'd love to know what is going on with the teen in question....has she sorted out her job issue yet?


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lesley&grace* 
I do not run a "maximum security prison" nor do I believe that being GD means not teaching your children to be respectful of others and their environment.

So, you can't teach your child to be respectful of others and their envirnment without punishing? Personally, I've always found punishment to be an ineffective way to teach. Kids learn to "be good" (stuff it) in order to avoid punishment.

Quote:

Because I knew my door would be taken away, I did not slam it or damage it.
I guess I'd rather my children didn't slam their door because they don't want to damage it, or disturb others. I'd like to teach them more effective ways of expressing their emotions. Punishing them by taking away their door not only violates their privacy, it teaches the wrong things.


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## shanagirl (Oct 24, 2005)

Oh my. First I've got to jump in on the door issue. I shared a room with two sisters. Masturbating would have been an unthinkable luxury . Were my parents 'denying' me some sovereign right because they couldn't afford a house with five bedrooms so we could all have our own? Please dad, work an extra job so I can have my own room and masturbate?

To the op, I took a job in high school at a mall about five miles from home and was told not to expect any rides. I had to walk two miles to get to the bus that went to the mall. I liked the money so I did it for about a year. But my parents did not waver and give me any rides. I was very stubborn and stuck it out. Sometimes my bosses gave me rides because they liked me and my register always came out even







. It was a learning experience. So as one who has actually been in exactly this situation (and who was not the most pleasant teen) I would recommend, don't give in. If this is something your dd wants to do, let her find a way. If she does, great. That's a better growth experience than doing what she wants and letting the grown ups fix it for you.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Interesting people are focusing so intently on masturbation. I think privacy is a basic human dignity issue and I listed masturbation only as one reason why a teenaged person might need privacy. The many other reasons have been passed over, maybe because even on MDC it's still fashionable to pretend sexuality is bad news unless it's doing the "baby dance."


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

I keep thinking about this - what about teens who share a room, how/where do they masturbate?


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Presumably much like college kids. Not everyone is home at the same time, etc. Oh now don't tell me, MDC people don't masturbate at college, either, because it's an unspeakable luxury, etc, etc.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
So, you can't teach your child to be respectful of others and their envirnment without punishing?

Why do people on this board always insist on taking things to the extreme?

Punishing in ONE instance does not equate to punishing all the time, for everything.







.

I took the door away from my son when talking to him about why he is not allowed to slam his door didn't make a dent. Nobody else in the house slams doors, so we didn't "model" door-slamming for him.

Of course I'd rather my son not slam the door out of some concern for the door or his family. When he was 8, his own intense emotions were more important to him than the door or his family. He's the sort of person that can't see straight when he's angry.

Punishing, when used for every little thing, IS an ineffective way to teach. When used once in a blue moon, it can be very effective.

In all my teen years, I was grounded ONE time. I wasn't allowed to visit any friends or use the car for a month. I was punished for something my parents considered to be a very serious issue, and I didn't realize how serious they felt it was until I blew off their instructions. I wasn't raised with a lot of rules, so I think they were very disappointed that I chose to disregard the few rules they had laid out. I never broke that rule again. Was it out of fear of being punished? Partially. But the fact that they flipped out and punished me at all left a huge impression on me because it was a rarity, and I really didn't want to upset them that badly again.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
Interesting people are focusing so intently on masturbation. I think privacy is a basic human dignity issue and I listed masturbation only as one reason why a teenaged person might need privacy. The many other reasons have been passed over, maybe because even on MDC it's still fashionable to pretend sexuality is bad news unless it's doing the "baby dance."

1) People are focusing on masturbation because some of us don't believe that it's a *daily* necessity.

2) The other *daily* things that require privacy have already been covered. Elimination occurs in the bathroom. Dressing can be done in the bathroom or another room with a door (like a parent's bedroom). Not everyone shuts the door when asleep (the cats don't like it).


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I am thinking a male could easily masturbate in the shower, although I am pretty sure males can self pleasure pretty much anywhere, no? (And Portnoy's Complaint...didn't the protagonist in that prefer the bathroom, anyway?)

Maybe we could post this in the TAO and see if any of the dads answer.

MDC, gotta love the tangents.








:

And the fact that now we're thinking not having a bed room door is kind of like being tortured and/or a POW boggles my mind and shows how removed people reading this thread are from the actual suffering of tortured people.

Drama, anyone?


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I wouldn't allow my teenager to take a job that required ME to go pick her up late at night. She's not an adult yet and you're still the parent. You have every right to insist she make her own arrangements, find another job, or stop working altogether. IMO, arranging her schedual so she can ride with her friend IS being responsible, since she's the one making the arrangements and verifying that she has rides home after every shift.

Even before reading the rest of the thread, I was going to suggest removing the door if she continues to slam it at midnight. Not as a punishment, but as a consequence- you use the door to wake up the entire family in the middle of the night, you must not be responsible enough to have a door. Alternatively, I'd fasten a towel around the door or frame so it closes quietly and not as completely.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

I would neither want nor be able to chauffeur my child back and forth to a job, especially not a 30 minute ride. That is unreasonable. It's not really a matter of "not allowing" --dd would have to find her own transportation and if she couldn't she'd get fired for not showing up.

I don't like the idea of removing the door because I think it's antagonistic. It sets you up for an adversarial relationship. It might solve your door slaming problem, but it doesn't help your child learn better ways to express their frustrations and emotions--lots of adults still door slam, maybe because they never learned how to communicate feelings properly.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
1) People are focusing on masturbation because some of us don't believe that it's a *daily* necessity.

Your veiws on it may not be the same as your child's. I think it's the sort of thing best left up to the individual.


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## lesley&grace (Jun 7, 2005)

I fail to see how taking my child's door off if said child was using it in a disrespectful manner makes me a punitive parent. I resent the implications that since I would do this one thing that you assume I only teach my children by punishing them. That is not the case, and I really think the whole door thing is wildly off topic.

At any rate....I am very curious as to how the OP has made out in this situation. Does your daughter still have the job? Were you able to get her to see your side of things? How are things going now?


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
Your veiws on it may not be the same as your child's. I think it's the sort of thing best left up to the individual.

A person who is old enough to *need* daily masturbation, is old enough to stop slamming doors when asked nicely.

My 8yo son was neither.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Hey KentuckyDoulaMama, any update? I'm curious to see how this gets worked through. Nosy me


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## SaraBravo (May 28, 2006)

i never thought of that. i think its a wonderful idea!as for masturbation, well if they are go ing to be doing that im sure that having their door taken away will stop them form that until they get it back. i think it would be good motivation to start acting right so they can get their door back and to keep acting right to keep it from happening again.
i do not see that as taking away privacy it's not as if everyone else moved into their room with them. i had a room with my sister and my brother then with just my sister. i never had my own room until i was just past 16! they'll be ok i promise.


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## allycat (Apr 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KentuckyDoulaMama* 
give me a whole room full of temper-tantrum throwing 2yos in exchange for just 1 teen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, my 16 yo got her first job. All along I've been trying to encourage her to get a job locally because we are so stretched with many responsibilities and crazy schedules that it would be soooo much easier for her to get something close. But I guess there are no "cool" places to work in our town or the next.

So, she goes with a friend to the city to fill out an application for a new ice cream shop that just opened. She made it sound like she was just riding with a friend and they were both picking up applications. We had no real discussion about her possibly working there. Many times she'll leave a message and just state what she's going to do, not ask and then hang up with no further details.
Anyhow, she comes home and bingo! she got hired. Okay, we begin to discuss this and the job is 35 mins away each way. She assures me up and down that she's discussed with the manager that she is dependent on the friend who also got hired for transportation and it was agreed (so she says) that they will both be on schedule the same times and it wouldnt be a problem.
So, okay....we'll see how this goes.
This was her first weekend to work and my ex'dh's weekend to have the kids.

Dd called me yesterday to ask if I could come pick her up at 10pm tonight cause she wasnt put on the same shift with her friend this weekend. I told her that I couldn't. Monday is my first day back to classes. We have to be there at 7am which means I have to get up at 5am. If I pick her up, it would mean I woudn't get to sleep until at least midnight as I have horrible insomnia too and it takes me a long time to get to sleep after climbing into bed. We have a test the first day back, first thing. I HAVE to get some sleep.

I tried to tell her this while she was very defensive and mouthy. She said, fine then I'll walk home" and hung up on me.

So, fast forward to tonight. Its about 8:45 pm and exdh brings two of the three girls back home. I figure dd made arrangements with her father to get a ride home tonight, as I've not heard back from her about it.
9:15 rolls around and I call her father to make sure. He said he told her no also.
So.........she's gone off to work until 10pm on a school night and has not secured herself a ride home. Exdh gets all high and mighty and pissy with me.
I say I'm going to call where she's working to see if she got a ride home. He says that I would be wrong to do that, it would embarrass her.
Well, I say, I guess she should have been more responsible to make sure she had arranged for a ride home.
He calls me irresponsible for leaving her there.







: Did I say I was leaving her there? DUH! Of course I'm not going to leave her there! And she knows it, which is part of the problem. She *knows* she will be picked up no matter what, she knows I have no choice to do so AFTER I've already told her no and explained why.

Dont get me wrong I usually make *any* sacrifices needed for my kids but this one night was a BAD night to be doing this late night running around. She doesnt care though.
And you know, her father certainly isn't rushing out to get her - just sitting back and criticizing me. Hmmm...it was his weekend, perhaps his responsibility to get her home?

I really, really dislike the teen years. And I really, really, really, really dislike my exdh.

Must go get my child now.


I think you did the right thing by not picking her up. She is older now and can make better choices. If she wants to work 30 mins away she has to organize her own ride. I would commend her for getting a job on her own, but let her know that part of getting a job is being responsible for your own transportation.

I would stick to your guns and not pick her up. If she knows you will come and get her, then well, she always will ask. Now and again, ok, but the majority of times she should arrange her own transporation, or get a job closer to home.

Maybe you should charge her a usage fee?

A.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 

I don't like the idea of removing the door because I think it's antagonistic. It sets you up for an adversarial relationship. It might solve your door slamming problem, but it doesn't help your child learn better ways to express their frustrations and emotions--lots of adults still door slam, maybe because they never learned how to communicate feelings properly.

So what would you do if your teen continually disrupted the family and slammed the door. We would all like to think that our children will make the right choices and actions, but what we would like to think and what actually happens can often be polar opposite. Just because we raise our children one way does not mean that they will go on as teens and young adults to act on the guidance they've been given. How would you handle the door slamming if you had talked to your teen and they continued to do it anyway?

Namaste,

Michelle


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman* 
How would you handle the door slamming if you had talked to your teen and they continued to do it anyway?

We'd work it out together, in a respectful way. Most likely, we'd try to get to the bottom of whatever communication problem was causing the door slamming.

This list of alternatives to punishment is in the Gentle Discilpine forum guidlines.

Alternatives To Punishment

_Use positive reinforcement.
Create a positive environment.
Say yes as much as possible.
Save no for the important things.
Use natural consequences.
Use logical consequences.
Use restitution.
Leave it up to your child.
Compromise.
State your expectations, and get out of the way.
Give specific instructions.
Give a reason.
Offer help.
Give a choice.
Redirect your child.
Remove your child.
Make positive statements.
Give in occasionally.
Give your child time to agree.
Simply insist.
Make rules.
Ignore some behavior.
Avoid nagging and threats.
Distract your child.
Use humor.
Make it a game.
Be willing to admit your mistakes.
Stop and think before you act.
Don't make a big fuss over little things.
Stick to routines.
Don't hurry your children too much.
Get to the root of the problem.
Correct one behavior at a time.
Give yourselves time.
Use the golden rule.
Model appropriate behavior.
Think of your child as an equal.
Always keep your love for your child in mind._

From the book Natural Family Living by Peggy O'Mara, editor and publisher of Mothering Magazine


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## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Synthea™* 
All those things can be done in the bathroom. Since teenagers should not be having sex while in their parent's house (geez, I hope everyone is with me on that one), a *bedroom* door is a privledge. As an adult, sure, we need bedroom privacy, but a kid does not. I am not all "GD", but I do not think that removing a door that gets slammed more then one time (let that one time be a warning), is un-GD.

Sometimes being a parent to a teen does require running a 'maximum security prison'. The teenage years are are delicate time between still needing your parents love and guidance and wanting to be free but not know what the hell you're doing.

I would not have a problem with my teenage DC having sex in their rooms, providing they have no other responsibilities they need to take care of at the moment


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *talk de jour* 
I would not have a problem with my teenage DC having sex in their rooms, providing they have no other responsibilities they need to take care of at the moment









Oh thank God, another hippie liberal freak. I could kiss you. I'm not at my parents' house right now, either.









Honestly I'd rather my kid and her boyfriend or girlfriend fornicate peacably under my roof and knowing I am here for her should anything upsetting or scary come her way than lay down a law that will be broken (75% of high school grads aren't a virgin come graduation day) and break down our ability to communicate honestly and fully.


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## forthebest (Jun 19, 2006)

Hehe I've got all this to look forward to! My eldest dd is 14 and is looking for a job for the coming summer. I wont pick her up more than the 4 miles to the bustop( she wont be able to get a bus to the remote place we live) and she wont be working late on a school night but she is not 16. Your dd will have to understand that you cant/wont pick her up from her job, its totally unreasonable anyway, so she may have to get work closer to home. My eldest dd is doing her own thing a lot these days and we went through a rough patch of door-slamming which if it had continuesd I would not have hesitated to remove it, I just couldnt be bothered! but she didnt believe I would do it and I certainly would have! We had a large notice up for many months saying NO DOOR SLAMMING. Its a constant batle with her sometimes and I have had to just ignore her constant bleating to get her own way and lay down the law but for a long while she was just ruling the roost and still does, thats when I walk away saying, come back when you are ready to talk with me not scream. It hurts that she walks all over me and tries to wind me up and cant accept the word no but hey she has to learn, I really hope my dd gets a job that she likes as it will help her learn more responsibility and she's costing me a fortune in nights out and clothes, I'm just gonna take a deep breath with all this growing up stuff and I hope your dd gets sorted with a job and transport.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
I guess I just don't get this mindset. In general but especially on MDC with all the GD philosophy. I'm raising a child, not running a maximum security prison. Being able to close a door and experience privacy absolutely is a right once a person is of an age where they are able to be alone without being in danger and experience a sense of physical and psychological modesty. I mean, even the Geneva Convention is with me on this one, afaik. This isn't a gameboy we're talking about, it's on the list of basic human needs: food, water, sleep, shelter, physical integrity (aka not being hit or abused), and privacy while attending to bodily functions/dressing/grooming/sexuality. It's not something I would feel ethical taking away from someone else as punishment.

Cuasing damage to the family home isn't a right though...and if one is not going to use a door responsibly one isn't ready to have a door.


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## melia6 (Mar 3, 2005)

Other parents have this problem too!! I have five kids. The two oldest are 14 and 121/2. The 14 yr.old girl is much easier for me. She will be rude and slam doors occasionally. She will use visualization, meditation, art, music, communication, time apart to cool down. My son 121/2 is the polar opposite. He is sensitive and sweet but also seems sexist, selfish, abusive in some ways, bent on his way and getting back at others. He sometimes reminds me of someone on the show Jackass. I've never seen it but I've seen outtakes. He slams doors whenever he wants. I am very much a positive parent who is not into punishment but natural consequences and communication as well as modeling the behaviours I hope to see him acquire. However, in real life, parents are sometimes in deep crisis- I know I am - stressed out. The intersection between reality and philosophy can be driven apart. He comes from a background where there have been no males at all or two very bad role models as father figures. I know I have to ignore things sometimes, like the slamming of the door. Bring it up later and offer alternatives to door slamming. My son does not respect my authority at all. But, he is loving. The alpha leader thing is not working for him. He is on some level, sad and in pain, and also has a belief system that is different than mine and fundamentally screwed up in some ways. There are deeper problems that need to be addressed than door slamming in general. Give the kids a tool or five to use instead of door slamming when angry. Give them wood and nails. Give them skills at communicating or deep breathing techniques, running, going outside to feed the birds, music, an instrument......... I have threatened to take his door off dozens of times and just never had time. The ultimate thing to do wrong, I know. It illustrates the fact that we can't always act like we want to when we are upset, feeling powerless over our kids' behaviour when all we want is not to be abused or have our home torn up. Show your kid you are a struggling human too who makes mistakes and is trying to learn how to handle your feelings as well as you can also. Sometimes you have to walk away from your kids when there is a very intense situation. It can become just an adversarial battle instead of a parent to non-adult interaction.


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## melia6 (Mar 3, 2005)

Other parents have this problem too!! I have five kids. The two oldest are 14 and 121/2. The 14 yr.old girl is much easier for me. She will be rude and slam doors occasionally. She will use visualization, meditation, art, music, communication, time apart to cool down. My son 121/2 is the polar opposite. He is sensitive and sweet but also seems sexist, selfish, abusive in some ways, bent on his way and getting back at others. He sometimes reminds me of someone on the show Jackass. I've never seen it but I've seen outtakes. He slams doors whenever he wants. I am very much a positive parent who is not into punishment but natural consequences and communication as well as modeling the behaviours I hope to see him acquire. However, in real life, parents are sometimes in deep crisis- I know I am - stressed out. The intersection between reality and philosophy can be driven apart. He comes from a background where there have been no males at all or two very bad role models as father figures. I know I have to ignore things sometimes, like the slamming of the door. Bring it up later and offer alternatives to door slamming. My son does not respect my authority at all. But, he is loving. The alpha leader thing is not working for him. He is on some level, sad and in pain, and also has a belief system that is different than mine and fundamentally screwed up in some ways. There are deeper problems that need to be addressed than door slamming in general. Give the kids a tool or five to use instead of door slamming when angry. Give them wood and nails. Give them skills at communicating or deep breathing techniques, running, going outside to feed the birds, music, an instrument......... I have threatened to take his door off dozens of times and just never had time. The ultimate thing to do wrong, I know. It illustrates the fact that we can't always act like we want to when we are upset, feeling powerless over our kids' behaviour when all we want is not to be abused or have our home torn up. Show your kid you are a struggling human too who makes mistakes and is trying to learn how to handle your feelings as well as you can also. Sometimes you have to walk away from your kids when there is a very intense situation. It can become just an adversarial battle instead of a parent to non-adult interaction.


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## melia6 (Mar 3, 2005)

I can't believe masturbation became such an issue. Privacy is nice but when one has kids sometimes one does things that on paper sound less than ideal because we have few options that are better or that will work. Taking the door off or not is more of a personal thing. It's not on the same par with hitting or being a punitive person in general. One will be pushed to extemes with kids and in reality sometimes you do exteme things, like unhinge a door. My son broke his door from slamming it. His issues are not from me as a whole. I have raised my kids on nonviolence but again, we have to be forgiving of ourselves as well as others. We are human animals with normal feelings of intensity.

I empathize with the person with the difficult ex- I have two- one in particular who has been particularly damaging to my life even after the divorce. I believe you will have to insist she find a cool coffeeshop or bookstore that is closer. You just can't be picking her up while in school, etc. I understand totally. Her entire happiness may hinge on this job if she is anything like my daughter. Do you have to have these discusssions with your ex? I have found that I can't really talk to mine at all in order to preserve my mental health and life. I do believe communication is almost alwalys better than not communicating but some people.....................


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
We'd work it out together, in a respectful way. Most likely, we'd try to get to the bottom of whatever communication problem was causing the door slamming.

This list of alternatives to punishment is in the Gentle Discilpine forum guidlines.

It all sounds very nice, but there ARE people in the world who are hot-headed and temperamental, and who just don't want to talk, listen, or solve problems. DS is much more easy-going now, but when he was young he was the poster boy for "The Explosive Child."

I can remember two incidents fairly clearly, and he slammed his door once because his 5yo brother took a toy out of his room. No, the kid shouldn't have gone in his room and taken the toy. It was discussed, the toy was returned, the brother apologized. But the door was still slammed.

Another time, he was mad because we told him it was time to shut down his video game, put it away, and get ready for bed. He wanted to finish the level. We said okay, finish the level, THEN put it away. So he finished the level, started a new level and dilly-dallied around for another 30 minutes, which made us angry because he lied to us. So his dad shut the game off, and DS went stomp, stomp, stomp up the stairs and slammed the door again.

Aside from causing damage to the door, my ExH is insanely paranoid about doors being slammed, because his sister slammed his hand in a door when he was a kid and took off the tip of one of his fingers. Screwing around with doors has always been a no-no in our home.

I'm looking at the GD list that was posted, and see _Make rules, Simply insist, Give a choice, Give your child time to agree, Use logical consequences._

My son knew the *rules* about doors in our house. He had been given the opportunity to *comply/agree*. We *insisted* that he not slam doors, and he *chose* to slam them anyway. The *consequence* of that was that he lost his door for a few days.

After this thread got derailed into the door discussion, I asked my son if he thought the door episode had adversely affected him. He looked blank and replied with, "Apparently not, since I don't even remember it."


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

I worked from the time I was 14 on, out of necessity. My mother always gave me rides.....BUT I was expected to pay for the gas for those rides AND my job had to be within the city limits (small town) so that it was actually only a 5 min ride. I also had to buy my own school clothes and school supplies. I had a single mom who provided me with a roof over my head, food in my stomach, and a shoulder to lean on.....but that's all she could afford to give me. She did get sick of giving me rides everywhere though....I was in marching band auxillary (tall flags) and french club, and worked 20 hours per week etc. So for my 18th b-day my mother, grandmother, grandfather, mom's boyfriend all went in on a car for me (my b-day is right after tax refund time luckily). Does she have her license? Could you help her buy an old but reliable car? Or is she not ready for the responsibility yet?


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## shanagirl (Oct 24, 2005)

BelgianSheepDog - people responded to the masturbation point because it was way off topic in a very funny, unexpected way. Or maybe I'm just really juvenile.


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