# Bread Bakers Unite



## salado (Jan 10, 2005)

I have decided to start baking my own bread here at home as opposed to buying it. Here are some ?s for those of you who are adept breadbakers.....
1. how cost efficient is it to bake your own?
2. where can i find cool healthy recipes?
thanks


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## heatherdeg (Dec 30, 2003)

I know that for some of the stuff that I make it's DEFINITELY cheaper. I shudder to think of paying $11 for olive-rosemary bread!!

As for healthy recipes, I usually just Google for something and then replace the not-so-healthy ingredients with something else.

Anyone got good gluten-free recipes or techniques???


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

It would be so cool if we could start a thread like the "got probiotics" and "NT" threads, all about bread. Recipies, troubleshooting and advice. I have attempted several times to make a good whole grain bread, but it always turns out too heavy (I think I put too much flour in the mix) or too dense and crumbly.

I think it's as cost efficient as you make it. You can put in alot of expensive ingredients or use just flour, water, yeast, salt and sugar.

Is it possible to get a nice light textured loaf of 100% whole wheat bread, or does a light loaf mean unbleached white flour? If I have to add unbleached white flour, what is the magic ratio? I'm looking for the loaf that has a nice chewy crust and a soft crumb inside.


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## isosmom (Apr 23, 2004)

I'm in. Dd kneads ( :LOL get it?) a snack right now, but I'll be back.
I would love to start an all bread thread seeing as how I'm kind of a newbie to the whole bread makig=ng.
But I know it costs a lot less to make your own than buy it.
I don't know about an $11 loaf! Are you kidding me???


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## heatherdeg (Dec 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *isosmom*
I'm in. Dd kneads ( :LOL get it?) a snack right now, but I'll be back.
I would love to start an all bread thread seeing as how I'm kind of a newbie to the whole bread makig=ng.
But I know it costs a lot less to make your own than buy it.
I don't know about an $11 loaf! Are you kidding me???

You're a sick soul with that pun!

As for an $11 loaf of bread... I'm thinking of a specific breadmaker in the NYC (and burbs) area that consider their product "artisan bread". I haven't actually checked the price of an olive-rosemary loaf... but when I worked in NYC a few years ago I remember checking the price for a simple loaf and it was $7.


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## lactationlady (Feb 16, 2004)

I just wanted to bump this back to the front page. I would live to start making homemade bread on a regular basis. I have made it once or twice, but I am just a little intimidated still. I would love to hear some tips from the pros on how they got started making bread on a regular basis. I especially love sourdough, but my kids are not too keen on it.


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## bellee (Feb 26, 2003)

I bake my own bread alot. Not regular sanwich bread but more like bread for dinner yk? I made it by hand for awhile but just never got a satifactory result so I got a bread maker







THat sucker makes EVERYTHING, bread, pixxa and noodle dough, jams and jellies









As for by hand I found that using bread flour gave me the best result (not to healthy though







) in the bread machine almost any type of flour gives me a nice textured bread.

Sourdough's a tough one, if you like, I can dig up the reciepe my BM has. It's kida tough though


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## lactationlady (Feb 16, 2004)

I am going to search for other bread making threads and link them here. I am about to go watch a movie with dh, but here is the first one I found:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=240691


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## onthemove (Aug 5, 2004)

I have a bread question... what do you use so the bread doesn't stick to the pan and do you take the bread out of the pan to let it cool?


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I am not sure why you think bread flour is less healthful, bellee. It's just a slightly higher-gluten flour. If you want to, you can buy whole-grain bread flour that also has a higher gluten content. You can also get organic white bread flour with the germ in it, I like that because it tastes really great. Bulk bins at Whole Foods--it does make the bread cost a bit more though.

One trick I use to keep the bread from sticking to the pan is a long thin strip of parchment paper. I also spray or brush the pan with oil. I am still using glass pans, which stick more than metal ones. I do take the bread out of the loaf pan after it has cooled partway, because then I don't get condensation on the loaf. If you make a hearth loaf on a sheet or pizza stone, you can use cornmeal to make the loaf release. That's pretty traditional. I think I have also used cornmeal in my loaf pans, but not recently.

I started baking bread again because of how expensive challah is in my neighborhood. It is a lot cheaper to make your own challah--if you are at home anyway. Then I got caught up in the process. You will see my username all over the recent bread threads.

My biggest tip is to buy or borrow a book about bread baking. I have the Laurel's Kitchen book, which is all whole grain. I also have Bread Alone by Daniel Leader, and I recently borrowed on long-term loan The Bread Baker's Apprentice. I cannot say enough good about the last book. I also have a copy of the famous Ed Wood book on sourdough, but I had one bad experience (with a starter recipe from Bread Alone) and got all intimidated. I also figured out a lot of clever techniques to make commercial yeast bread taste like sourdough and got all into that! (Long cold fermentation--ooh baby.)


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## bellee (Feb 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain optimism*
I am not sure why you think bread flour is less healthful, bellee. It's just a slightly higher-gluten flour. If you want to, you can buy whole-grain bread flour that also has a higher gluten content.

I've recently switched from white to ww flour for everything I bake, and I was assuming you could read my mind :LOL


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## melissa17s (Aug 3, 2004)

I have had a lot of luck with the bread recipes in the cookbook that came with my kitchenaid mixer. I just adjust or adapt slightly frequently. I have also used bread recipes from the Enchanted Broccoli Forest by Mollie Katzen, and it has a some interesting information about bread and dough in general. The bread I make most often is an adaptation of a basic wheat French bread. I make it into peasant loaves instead of bagettes. If I bake in loaf pans, I let it cool in the pan enough so I don't get burnt, then put on drying rack. I put olive oil on my pans, pizza stone, etc, to keep from sticking to the pan. We eat at least 2 loaves a week.


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

I had a 'Good Eats with Wheat' thread...it's way huge though...but there are all kinds of bread recipes in it.

I think it would be a nice thing to have a 'bread bakers' thread. I have used grains other than and in addition to wheat, like Spelt and Oat, Rye and even beans, lentils and such for making an 'overnight soak' multi grain bread and it always rises great and is 'soft'.

I think when you use whole grain flours, the key to getting it to 'rise' well (and taste good) is a soak to moisten all the particles, using a good yeast or sourdough starter, and then a quick, light knead, and then shaping the loaves and covering with a slighty damp lightweight cloth in a warm place but for only 30 min.

Here is an interesting experiment for any bread bakers. If you eat potatoes and boil them (for whatever), save the water you boiled them in to use in your bread baking. OMG it makes the most awesome tasting, fluffy bread!


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## marilynmama (Oct 20, 2003)

I am also a breadmaker, I love to make bread







I really have no tips from what the others have said but once you make a really good loaf of bread *that* is when things start happening. For the longest time everytime I tried to make bread something went wrong....didn't rise, too doughy, burnt, too dense, whatever.

I think you need to work with someone who is good at making bread so you can see and most importantly touch what good dough and bread is like...once you can know it by touch that is all you need to be a great breadmaker IMO. You eventually will just "know" when it's all coming along right.

I really don't know if its cost effective to make your own or not, but its sooo much better for you and better tasting right? It really just depends on your ingrediants (organic, etc) and how much you want to spend like someone else mentioned.

I still would like to make a sourdough, that is one bread I have never tried to make and it intimidates me for some reason.

Marilyn


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## lactationlady (Feb 16, 2004)

Here is the link to the Good Eats with Wheat thread that Xenabyte was referring to. Lots of great info!

Good Eats With Wheat


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## bellee (Feb 26, 2003)

I've heard this before and have yet to try it. I'm wondering how long is the potato water good for? Could I keep it in the fridge for a couple days ya think?

I have replaced the water in my raisin bread with apple juice. Mmm, Mmm THAT was tasty


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## AllNatural (Aug 4, 2004)

Onthemove, as the PP stated, yes, you can use cornmeal. I pour a little olive oil in my glass loaf pan or on my baking sheet if I'm making French bread and use my clean hands to rub it around. Then you sprinkle on the cornmeal and add your dough. I've also used wheat germ and rolled oats.

I'd love a bread thread, too. I'm getting ready to see if I can get a sourdough starter and a herman starter (sweet sourdough) going.

Kate


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## Catarina (Aug 26, 2004)

I have been using a neutral-tasting coconut oil to grease my pans and the bread comes out so well that I don't bother washing the pans. Much better than oil, for me.

I made a nice batch of anadama bread - with cornmeal and molasses.

I look forward to trying the potato water trick. What is it that makes the difference - the starch?


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## awnja (Sep 1, 2004)

I'm in! Here's all I know in response to some of the posts:

All I use in my bread is flour, yeast, water, oil and sometimes a sprinkling of seeds or oats, so yes its cheaper than buying GOOD bread. I just got a bunch of flax seed and will start adding that for healthier bread. If I got my flour bulk from the buying club like I do everything else it would be quite cheap, but I'm picky about bread flour. King Aurthur makes the best bread flour (high gluton).

Soak your whole grains for a long time so your bread is not so heavy. Like with cornbread, you let the cornmeal sit in the buttermilk overnight if you have the time. I've been making a whole wheat sponge, letting it sit in the fridge, and adding bread flour 3 days later during kneading. It ends up being about 50% whole wheat with a very soft and yummy crumb. I brush with water and put boiling water at the bottom of the oven for better crust, but I haven't perfected that yet. I'm also interested in making a good sourdough.

I found some good basic info in LLL "Whole Foods for the Whole Family," and my husband ( the real bread baker here) loves the book "The Bread Baker's Apprentice." I've made the cornbread in that book, but for some reason get intimidated by other recipies in there... but there's some yummy bread in there!!

I don't know how to keep the bread from sticking to the pans so I don't use them. The loaves are prettier round anyway, IMO.

Julie


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## mamadege5 (Jan 5, 2005)

:
keep the ideas, recipes coming ladies.....I'm a bread newbie!


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

: Sorry, you asked a question about the potato water, yes, I think the starches DEFINITELY help. Whatever it is, it's worth boiling taters for something and keeping the water for bread making.

I've never refrigerated 'potato water', It would be fine, the 'starch' will settle, but a good stir would help. I have even heard of 'sourdough starters' made from using potato water as it helps it to 'grow'. I have no clue atm why, maybe I can look it up. At the moment, it's one of those 'grandma's secrets' that I happened to have discovered when we boiled some potatoes up and I didn't want to pour all this lovely water down the drain (it has some expensive organic bouillon in it too). So here is what I did:

I measured how much water I had left (was about 6 cups). So I added 6 cups of organic, unbleached whole wheat flour and one packet of yeast. I stired this 'soupy' mix (this is your 'sponge') and poured into a large ceramic crock (the kind g'ma used to make pickles in) and covered with a damp cloth and let it sit overnight.

Next morning, I added in my sea salt (about 2 tsp), a bit of grapeseed oil (maybe a 1/2 cup) and stirred. Then I added in orgainc, unbleached all purpose flour (since it doesn't have time to soak like the whole wheat did)until it was 'stiff' (around 4 cups). Then I poured this in two batches onto a floured countertop and 'kneaded' it gently to incorporate more flour until it was a smooth, yet kinda soft bread dough.

I shaped them into 'logs' and put them (got 4 long loaves, two on each baking sheet) that had been greased with expeller (no smell) coconut oil. I always put a slightly damp (flat cotton birdseye diaper that is only for kitchen use) over the tops. I let them puff for 30 min in a warm area near my stove.

Then I baked them for 25 ish min at 400 deg F. They were so good, me, dd and the DH ate one loaf while standing around finishing the rest of our dinner!!

I brushed melted butter with a pinch of garlic salt over the tops and put a dry cloth over them once they are removed. This makes the tops get super soft (easy for the dc to munch on too).


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Oh, some interesting notes:

If you use sugar to feed your yeasts, you should use plain ol white sugar...I know! You are thinking what????

Honey has natural antibacterial, fungal (yeast) and viral properties. So it can retard or stop yeast growth (good for inside us, not so good for your bread yeasts).

Sucanat (Rapadura type sugars) also have been found to retard yeast cultures (which suggests that baking with it in general will not contribute as much to the 'internal yeast issues' some folks have...but again, I guess it's a no no for your yeast 'sponge' starter, if you are having 'rising' issues.

So keep a small box of white or 'Florida crystals' for feeding your yeast when getting a bread starter going.

Just some interesting info I found out from a lady who does culture testing with various sugars.

HTH somebody!


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

You don't really _need_ to feed yeast sweeteners, you should be able to make a sponge with no sugar. I find that when I use sugar that the yeast doesn't eat it all up anyway, because the bread is still sweeter. The idea with an unenriched dough is to let the dough ferment long enough for the compex flour starch molecules to break apart into simpler sugar molecules. Peter Reinhart (baking teacher to whose book i am devoted) claims that commercial yeast (as opposed to the wild yeast in sourdough starter) doesn't eat sucrose, only glucose and to a lesser extent fructose and maltose.

I did know that honey could put a shoe in the works. It's a good sweetener to use in bread generally, but not raw honey and not at that yeast proofing stage. Maple syrup is a no-no according to Laurel ('s Kitchen) Robertson, it can tear the dough for some reason.

I still think the neatest thing is to get the bread to be sweet without sweeteners.


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## isosmom (Apr 23, 2004)

So what I want to know is, how can I keep on top of my breadmaking?
I would really love to never have to buy it anymore, but we run out and then I've got no time, ykwim?
So what are you schedules, so to speak, for your breadmaking? I work early mornings, so starting in the morning most days doesn't work. I guess I should just start early on my days off. Would it work if I started at night and then let it rise in the fridge or something like that?


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## acrathbun (Apr 27, 2004)

I make nearly all of our bread (sandwiches, toast, etc.) and my hands down favorite recipe is from LLL Whole Foods for the Whole Family.

I use honey or molasses as a sweetener and have never had a problem. (I guess I should say here, that I've been doing this for years







)

The key I think is kneading it enough (I usually knead for 10-15 minutes) and not using too much flour.

Here's my recipe (if you want it)

2 cups of warm potato water (I store mine in the fridge until I need it...and then just heat it up)

1 tsp. honey or molasses

2 T yeast (not the quick stuff...just regular yeast)

Mix the above & let sit for 10 minutes or so.

Add 2T honey, 2t salt, 1/4 cup of butter or oil, and 3 cups of flour. Beat 200 strokes (by hand) or 2 min on Med speed in a heavy duty mixer w/ a dough hook.

Add one more cup of flour & beat briefly.

Add 2 eggs. And 3-4 more cups of flour.

Knead for 10-15 minutes. The dough should be "silky" It takes practice to know when it's been kneaded enough. If you're not sure....just knead for the whole 15 min.

Let rise (in a warmish place) in an oiled (or unoiled if you prefer) bowl (covered) until double (for me, that's usually 1.5 hours) Or let rise in the fridge for several hours or overnight.

Punch down & form into loaves. The easiest way for me to do this is to roll it out flat w/ a rolling pin & then roll it up (like you would if you were making cinnamon rolls) & tuck the edges under. Oil the top lightly & cover. Let rise again until doubled. (45min-1hr) Or let rise overnight in the fridge.

Put it in a 350 degree oven until it's a golden (darkish) brown. Cool in pans for a minute or two & then take the bread out (so the crust doesn't get soggy) and cool on racks.

Enjoy!


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## kimmysue2 (Feb 26, 2003)

talk about cheap my dad makes bread and he think it cost maybe 30 cent and half if that is for the silly bag.

His bread won blue ribbon at the state fair. I just got 6 loaves from him on Sunday. I slices it and freeze the bread just taking a loave out one at a time. My daycare kids LOVE this bread. I mean when they ask for it without any thing on it its gotta be good.

Our next project is to make hamburger/hotdog buns.


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## AllNatural (Aug 4, 2004)

Have any of you ever made a Herman starter? I made my first today and was afraid it wouldn't work because I can't get bread flour. I put the 2 cups of starter mix in a pitcher and was sitting at my keyboard an hour later and heard this strange bubbling sound. I thought, "Oh,no! My radiator's leaking again." But when I turned around I saw this weird glob on the desk behind, "What IS that?" I thought. And then I knew. It was my starter. It had bubbled up and out of my 2 QUART pitcher into it's very own version of Mt. St. Helens! Is this normal??? I've been having to stir it down every hour or so to keep it from bubbling over. So much for it not working. BTW, I'm using plain white flour that's sold to make dumplings because that's the only kind of flour that had "plain flour" on it in English. The only other flours with English were "self-raising" and I knew I didn't want that. Please help. Did I do something wrong? The recipe called for 2 cups of flour, 1/4 cup sugar, 1 pkg yeast, and 2 cups warm water. I'm hoping it will calm down after I stick it in the fridge tonight. I'd hate to wake up to a globby mess in my fridge!
TIA,
Kate


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

What a great thread! I love baking bread. I try to make all of our bread, unless it gets too hot to use the oven in the summer, then I occasionlly buy from the bakery. The thing I love most is that it's an easy way to get ds to eat something healthy. My favorite stand-by recipe is the whole wheat bread recipe from the Tassajara Bread Book. It is for 100% whole wheat loaves, and they turn out really well. They have always risen really nicely. I think that making a sponge really helps with the nice texture. I usually tweak the recipe though to add some whole grains, some pureed fruit or veggies, some tahini, eggs, whatever is on hand. A few years back, I was baking lots of sourdough breads. If anyone is interested, and it's not too cold where you live, let your starter sit outside for a day covered with a thin cheesecloth layer. If you have it outside, you will get some really nice natural yeast spores landing in there and doing their thing.

I also love that breadmaking is a family activity. Ds loves to get involved, and usually shapes little "kid-size" loaves.

I have been experimenting lately with soaking some of my whole wheat flour, so we'll see how that goes. I am also trying to get a nice sourdough culture going again, but it's still too cold out where I am to set it outside!!

About the potato water, my mom always uses it in her bread, and it turns out awesome, so something in there is definately worth saving that water for. As for sweeteners, I usually use honey or molasses, and have never had a problem with it either. I tried mixing a batch of bread for the first time with my kitchenaid mixer the other day- have always done it by hand before- and it didn't rise as nicely. Maybe some of you can give me some suggestions as to why this would be.


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## achintyasamma (Aug 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marilynmama*
I am also a breadmaker, I love to make bread







I really have no tips from what the others have said but once you make a really good loaf of bread *that* is when things start happening. For the longest time everytime I tried to make bread something went wrong....didn't rise, too doughy, burnt, too dense, whatever.

I think you need to work with someone who is good at making bread so you can see and most importantly touch what good dough and bread is like...once you can know it by touch that is all you need to be a great breadmaker IMO. You eventually will just "know" when it's all coming along right.

I really don't know if its cost effective to make your own or not, but its sooo much better for you and better tasting right? It really just depends on your ingrediants (organic, etc) and how much you want to spend like someone else mentioned.

I still would like to make a sourdough, that is one bread I have never tried to make and it intimidates me for some reason.

Marilyn


are you going to invite us all over to watch you make bread, marilynmama?









I tried my hand at making bread a few years ago without much luck. My breads were always to heavy and dense. I'm trying again with a bread machine that I got at a thrift store and not having much luck this time either. I really want to make 100% whole grain loaves, but am not sure what I'm doing wrong.


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## splendid (Jul 18, 2004)

Just subscribing to this thread, my store is a sale on the ww organic flour so I forsee a lot of breadmaking in the near future.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

i'm a newbie, too, but i did finally get a pretty good loaf going. it does have added sweetener (usu maple syrup), but it was pretty yummy with 100% ww. i use my kitchenaid (kneading is fun, but with the toddler the mixer is much faster and hands free). at first i think i had too much flour and didn't let it rise enough, but when i cut back on the flur and let the dough be sticky it had a great crumb. gotta work on the crust, though.


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## nym (Sep 6, 2003)

I have been making the same 75% ww bread/bun recipe my entire life it seems, but I would like to make some other kinds. I will be checking out some book from the library, and I am going to try the potatoe water recipe xena posted above. What I am wondering is how do you soak the flour? Does anyone have a recipe?


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## Thmom (May 4, 2004)

If I have a recipe I can follow to the T it turns out great, but I have a hard time with improvising (and I'm and improvisational type of cook)
but my biggest problem is that I'll make several loaves worth in my stand mixer (I can usually get 4 loaves at a time) and I want to freeze the dough so we can always have fresh baked kwim.... but when I freeze it I can't get it to rise again!!! HELP! This is what is keeping me from making all of our bread.
We go through about a loaf a day and I'd like to be able to make the bread for the whole week on one day and bake a loaf each morning...

I'd also like to know more about soaking ww flour... I haven't a clue as to how or why you would do this please fill me in...

I also want to know how to use different flours to acheive different flavors and textures.

And can those who are in the know please have more discussion on the use of white sugar vs honey/sucant/mollasses etc...

I currently use a really basic recipe
11 oz. very warm water
1 egg
3 T Honey
2 T Oil
1 t Salt
2 1/2 C Flour
2 C Whole wheat flour
1 1/2 t yeast

Put into bread machine in order, and let her rip! It makes a large loaf.

I generally double the recipe and use my stand mixer and bake in the oven...


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I'm not an NT person, but I have been pre-soaking and prefermenting in a sponge some of the flour for whole wheat bread and it's been great! The bread comes out lighter. I have been using just water for my presoak. I put the recipe I used here:

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...light=reinhart

It's in post #5. the cookbook author says you can use buttermilk instead of water, I just don't do dairy so I haven't tried that.

My guess is that the extra fermentation unlinks the complex carbohydrate chains.


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## Melis (Jan 27, 2005)

Hello Ladies









Could someone please share the best way to store freshly baked bread?

Thank you








Melissa


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

If it is an unenriched dough with a hard crust, a so-called lean bread or hearth-style bread, put it cut-side down on the cutting board. If you eat it within three days, it will keep that way. You could also store it in a paper bag.

If it's an enriched dough, a soft one (with milk or fat and sweetener) I always store it in a plastic bag, again you have to eat it within three days. If I think we are going to take longer, I slice the loaf and put it in a plastic bag and freeze it, and then we eat it a few slices at a time.

Don't put the bread in a plastic bag until it is completely cool or you will get icky condensation. in fact I now think you shouldn't eat the bread until it has cooled off--you get the best flavor when it has just cooled. Also that way you don't eat it before it's totally baked!


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

The 100% whole wheat bread recipe from the Tassajara Bread Book is what finally got me baking bread ... successfully! We're veg, so I just leave out the dry milk powder, plus I lessen the salt from 4tsp to 2. I also use my mixer to help me stir, although I knead it by hand for 10 minutes after the flour is well incorporated. One of my big problems was always finding a warm place for my dough to rise. So I scrape the sponge out of my plastic mixer bowl into a ceramic bowl, set it in my oven with the oven light on to rise, then I scrape it back into my plastic bowl to stir in more flour, then I knead it and put it back in my ceramic bowl to rise. :LOL If only my mixer came with a ceramic bowl!! I'm looking forward to trying this with potato water after reading this thread!

I also modify the Tassajara ww bread recipe to make a cinnamon raisin walnut bread. Again I leave out the dry milk powder and lessen the amount of salt by 2tsp. I heat a cup of raisins in about a cup and a half of water, then use the raisin water as part of my liquid. I also add a cup of chopped walnuts and use blackstrap molasses as the sweetner. Oh yes, and add 2 tablespoons of cinnamon. Yummmm!

My most recent "success" was making buns. I've tried before with 100% whole wheat, but this time I used 50% whole wheat and 50% unbleached white, all organic of course. I followed my tried and true sponge method and we love them. I plan to experiment with the ratio of whole wheat and white as I'd like them to be more whole.









Oh yes, I buy my organic whole wheat stoneground flour in the bulk section of Whole Foods for $.49/lb. That's cheaper than I can buy it in bulk at my buying club. I'm waiting for a sale on the 25 lb bag though - hoping to make some room in my freezer (how?!). I like the idea of not running out of flour for a while. Then again, I'm also wondering about investing in wheat berries and a flour mill. It never stops, does it?!


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## nym (Sep 6, 2003)

So, I took the Bread Bakers Aprentice out of the library and I so want to make a bunch of different kind of breads. How is everyone doing in their bread baking?


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

I make bread, but haven't in a long time. It is more expensive for me to make it because we get all of our bread for free but it's store bread and not the best, yk.

When I make it, I make a 4 or 7 loaf recipe. The problem is I only have 4 pans so if I make a 7 loaf we get buns(which isn't a bad thing)

Unfortunatly my recipe is your typical white bread recipe. I have added whole wheat flour to it but never gone completely ww. I think the furthest i got was 8/12 cups ww. For bread it was heavy and didn't rise(I expected that). For buns it is fine.

I use the self-rising yeast, is that bad?

It calls for 6tbsp of sugar, can I replace all of that with honey/maple syrup?

Instead of melted margerine I use olive oil and for the salt I use sea salt.

Has anyone tried the silicone bread pans? I keep hearing that silicone is supposed to be good for you, I have red flags about it but don't know why. Right now 1 of my pans used to be moms, most likely is aluminum. The other 3 are non-stick. We are buying new pots and pans sometime this year but I don't recall seeing stainless steel bread pans anywhere.

When I cool my bread, I leave it in the pan for 10minutes then take it out to cool on a baking rack.

Because I make so many loaves I freeze 3 or 6 of them in plastic bags. We'll go through 7+ loaves a week.


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## annethcz (Apr 1, 2004)

I usually make all of our family's bread. I too really like the section in LLL's Whole Foods for the Whole Family cookbook. Very informative.

I use honey in my sponge, and it my bread generally turns out very well.

I will also say that the potato water makes a HUGE difference. I save all of my potato water, and freeze it in 1 cup portions. That way I always have potato water to use for my bread, and can defrost 1 cup at a time. I've also tried using pasta water, but the potato water works better.

My other hint for making really good bread is to add butter. I've tried making bread without fat or with olive oil, but it's soooo much better with butter. I usually put in about 2-3 TBsp. for 2 loaves of bread (you don't have to use a lot).

For greasing pans, it's much better to use a solid fat. I save all of my butter wrappers & use them to grease the pans, it works well. And of course, I take my bread out of the pan as soon as it is cool enough to be handled. The times I've forgotten to do this, I ended up with a soggy mess from the condensation.

I don't have a bread making schedule. But when I notice that we're running low, I'll start a batch at night before I go to bed. Then I'll let the sponge rise in the fridge overnight. In the morning, I'll let the bread warm on the counter, knead in the rest of the flour and rise a few times before baking. I usually make 2 loaves at a time, we'll eat one and I'll freeze the other in a plastic bag.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

I boiled a big pot of potatoes last night, then measured out 3 jars full of potato water - 3 cups each! My sponge is almost through with its first rise now. Can't wait to try this potato-water bread!


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## lisap (Dec 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thmom*
If I have a recipe I can follow to the T it turns out great, but I have a hard time with improvising (and I'm and improvisational type of cook)
but my biggest problem is that I'll make several loaves worth in my stand mixer (I can usually get 4 loaves at a time) and I want to freeze the dough so we can always have fresh baked kwim.... but when I freeze it I can't get it to rise again!!! HELP! This is what is keeping me from making all of our bread.
We go through about a loaf a day and I'd like to be able to make the bread for the whole week on one day and bake a loaf each morning...

I'd also like to know more about soaking ww flour... I haven't a clue as to how or why you would do this please fill me in...

I also want to know how to use different flours to acheive different flavors and textures.

And can those who are in the know please have more discussion on the use of white sugar vs honey/sucant/mollasses etc...

I currently use a really basic recipe
11 oz. very warm water
1 egg
3 T Honey
2 T Oil
1 t Salt
2 1/2 C Flour
2 C Whole wheat flour
1 1/2 t yeast

Put into bread machine in order, and let her rip! It makes a large loaf.

I generally double the recipe and use my stand mixer and bake in the oven...


This recipe sounds great! Can I use 4 1/2 cups of whole wheat flour?


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## Thmom (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisap*
This recipe sounds great! Can I use 4 1/2 cups of whole wheat flour?

yep, I 've done that but it makes it denser and doesn't rise as well. Maybe add some gluten or perhaps with this sponge that keeps getting talked about the rise would be better...


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## Thmom (May 4, 2004)

okay I feel stupid... but what is a sponge? what is it's purpose and how is it used?


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

A sponge is a pre-ferment. Basically, you make part of your dough first--usually, it's flour, water and yeast--and let it rise. Then you add the rest of the flour and water and yeast, and whatever other ingredients you are going to put in there. There are lots of different kinds of sponges: there is a poolish, there is a biga, and there is something called paté fermentée.

These are all modern (as in, post invention of commercial yeast) versions of an older practice. Before brewers started to collect and dry yeast off of beer and sell it for bakers, bakers had to rely on wild yeast. They trapped this yeast in sourdough starters, which also have the advantage of lactobacilii (from the same family of friendly bacteria as is in yogurt). Bakers would save some of the dough from each batch to leaven and condition the next batch of dough. After commercial yeast got popular, bakers started to use sponges made with commercial yeast.

Using a sponge is a great idea if you are doing whole grain baking, because the increased length of fermentation time really helps make the bread lighter. In general, my recent experience with sponges has been amazingly positive. Even though you don't have to knead the sponge, when you add it to your dough it tends to reduce the kneading time. Everything goes together so nicely!


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## ComaWhite (Mar 13, 2003)

Any essene (manna) bread makers out there?
I just recently started out and would like to swap ideas/tips!


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## spyiispy (Jul 23, 2002)

I'm subbing too! I'm always on the lookout for new techniques to tweaking my bread-baking (I most certainly will be incorporating the potato water trick). Bread is in my blood, I think. My mother supported our family after my dad left by baking for my grandma's country store. I remember her baking late into the night....and first thing in the morning, the smells from the kitchen would be incredible. I make sourdough mostly......as nearly all yeast is genetically modified. Just yesterday, I made some awesome sourdough French bread. Its got a very *light* sourdough taste and a crusty, chewy crust......the sourdough taste is so light, in fact, that my FIL (who doesn't like sourdough) couldn't even tell. The trick, this time.......was a proofing box. A proofing box is very easy to make...just cut off the long side of a box big enough to place your pizza stone or cookie sheet inside (whatever you're baking your artisanal loaves on). Place inside a garbage bag, with the open side toward you. When the loaves are shaped and ready to rise.....place them (on the cookie sheet) inside the proofing box and close the bag. Voila! It provides high humidity and protects against drafts. If you want to really increase the humidity, stick a wet sponge inside the box with the loaves (Just be sure to leave space for them to rise without touching the sponge). Jacque Pepin recommends this method. You can also use your microwave OR your dishwasher as a proofing box.

"Here's the procedure.
Before you start making the dough, throw about a cup of water in the bottom of your dishwasher. Turn the dishwasher to the dry cycle (make sure you you have the high temperature dry on) and firmly latch the door. When the dough is complete (the dry cycle should be done by now), put it in a bowl and cover it. Then quickly open the door, place the bowl in, close the door and firmly latch it. Set a kitchen timer to exactly one hour. At the end of the hour (no peeking or you will let the heat out) remove the dough which is now perfectly doubled. If the recipe calls for a second rising (breads, rolls) as soon as you remove the dough, put the dishwasher on through half it's dry cycle to reheat the "proof box". Form your loaves or rolls and cover again according to the recipe. Place the loaves back into the dishwasher as above for exactly 30 minutes while you preheat the oven. After 30 minutes, your breads will be perfectly risen. Take them out of the dishwasher, put immediately into the hot oven and bake according

With this procedure, you will be able to make any yeast based recipe start (from the moment you take out the first ingredient) to finish (when you take the bread out of the oven) in three hours with perfect consistent results each and every time. I have used this technique for years and would never raise my breads any other way. Give it a try and you too will become a believer."

The second thing I learned with these two loaves is to place a cookie sheet on the bottom baking rack while preheating the oven. Just before placing the loaves in to bake......pour a cup of water onto the cookie sheet. POOF! A big cloud of steam! Place your loaves in and quickly close the door. If you want some extra steam......throw some more water in after a couple minutes. For even crustier loaves....spritz the loaf with water after its risen in the oven. Sourdough is supposed to be given a day to rest. Yeah right.....I've only been able to wait a couple hours. LOL The crust gets crustier if you do.

Lisa


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## tofumama (Jan 20, 2004)

:


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I do the steamy oven trick, too. I didn't know that most yeast was GM, I thought that only yeast for commercial bakeries had GM enzymes added.

Tonight I did something really crazy. I tried a new recipe that called for unbleached white flour using some Vita spelt flour I had on sale. It's special dough that you mix using ice water and then do an initial fermentation in the fridge. It's supposed to be a wet, "rustic" dough. I'll let you know tomorrow if it worked. I'm nervous because I don't know anything about the gluten content of the flour I used. Oh well, there's always the famous homemade bread rule, to whit: anything that is homemade bread tastes good.


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## almama (Mar 22, 2003)

Hi all-

I've been bitten by the bread bug too.

Kneading: Xenabyte you recommend a light knead - could you define this? I always thought you knead until "elastic," but I'm able to get a dough elastic well before the normal 10 minute or so kneading time recommended.

Does anyone knead using a mixer? I'm considering it because it is the most difficult part of getting the bread made with three little one (conversely it is also can be the most fun part with two little ones . . . when the baby is fussy is when the problem starts). My current mixer can't knead (dough ends up in the motor . . .), so I'd have to upgrade.

"Wet dough" -I'm trying to keep my dough as "wet" as possible and get better end results but man it is hard to knead such a dough by hand.

Flour: We've gone 100% WW or white WW. What else do you add to make it taste a little lighter? Spelt? Oat flour?

Cost savings: Anyone else whose gas bill has skyrocketed with this new bread baking mania? I'm trying to figure out how to time all my cooking into one oven "on" but that's hard!

Really enjoying this thread and can't wait to try potato water.

Anyone use lecithin or ascorbic acid to give the dough a kick?


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Almama, I let my mixer stir all the flour in (this is the hardest part for me!). I use the dough hook but when it starts climbing, I take it out and finish kneading it by hand. I always replace about 4 TBS of my ww flour (in an 8-cup recipe) with vital wheat gluten in my initial sponge, and my bread is pretty light. I think it might be due to the sponge method though, since I was never able to produce decent ww bread before I used it.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I just got the first loaves of the spelt bread out of the oven. I was using whole grain spelt flour to make this special Peter Reinhart recipe, Pain l'Ancienne. The special thing is that you use icewater to mix the dough, and do a long cold first fermentation for 8 hours in the fridge. He promises an extraordinarily crispy crust, big holes in the crumb, a light bread and great flavor--in the original recipe, which calls for white flour. using the spelt was my way of, um, using up all that spelt flour I have!









I find with the spelt that the crust is not especially crisp, though it is very nicely chewy. The crumb has satisfyingly big holes , the bread is light, and it has an unusually tempting smell. The flavor is excellent--I found it improved as the bread cooled. It is a good bread, even if not the one that the original recipe promises. That won't stop us from eating all of it, I'm just saying! I now think I might try it with whole wheat as well.

I have been using my Kitchen Aid to both mix and knead a lot lately, because my toddler gets annoyed when I knead for a long time. This last recipe had 6 cups of flour and the Kitchen Aid handled it well.

For most doughs, I do the windowpane test to see if the dough is kneaded sufficiently. You take a piece of dough and stretch it between four fingers. If it stretches enough to be translucent, you have kneaded enough, and if it tears, knead more. (I guess that's an elasticity test, so it's the same as kneading until elastic!







)Some recipes don't require that much kneading.

The SAF Instant yeast I've been using has added ascorbic acid, which Catarina, another experienced baker around here, told me was giving my dough a kick! It has been working well for me since I got a cookbook that actually calls for SAF Instant.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

I forgot to post back about my potato-water bread. It rose really well, but its heavier than usual. Is this nomal?


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

so, i have a coupla questions for y'all experienced bread makers out there. for one, i'm really intrigued by the sourdough idea. i tried to make a starter the other day when some yeast i had was bad. i'm curious if anybody does it w/o commercial yeast at all. can you just let it hang out and gather yeast from the air? i ended up just throwing mine away because it was not happening.

the other thing i'm curious about is if anybody has made salt risen bread? here's a page i found about it -- http://www.chaski.com/wwwboard/food/messages/13858.html . my mom used to love this and the bakeries in the little old southern mt town where she grew up used to sell it commercially. i'm intrigued by it, too, and might try it one day when the kids aren't being too demanding. the recipe says it really likes it warm so i might wait til warmer weather...

(eta: the salt risen bread also uses potato water in the fermentation and no commercial yeast at all. here's a better site about salt risen bread -- http://web.mountain.net/~petsonk/ . somebody try it and let meknow what you think.)


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## chrissy (Jun 5, 2002)

:


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## Zhlake (Mar 19, 2003)

Can anyone tell me about freezing dough for later use. Do you freeze it after it rises in the pan, or do you rise it after taking it out of the freezer?

Also, when I made bread this weekend (for the first time) I let it rise twice before shaping and then let it rise again in the pan. Is that necessary or could I have just let it rise once before shaping?


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## lisap (Dec 18, 2004)

Yesterday I made my first two loaves of bread! They came out wonderfully







! I have decided to make bread every week instead of buying. I saw something at the store today: whole wheat whit flour. What is this and is as good for you as whole wheat brown flour?


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## umefey (Sep 10, 2004)

I don't often have enough time to make tons of bread... But i LOVE it when i get a chance.
My favorite bread book is Laurel's kitchen. They have the most wonderful instructions!


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisap*
Yesterday I made my first two loaves of bread! They came out wonderfully







! I have decided to make bread every week instead of buying. I saw something at the store today: whole wheat whit flour. What is this and is as good for you as whole wheat brown flour?

I believe this is the great King Arthur flour that I used to get in the supermarket sometimes. Here is the product page from the company:

http://ww2.kingarthurflour.com/cgibi...01541049381667

Here is the relevant information to you:

Quote:

King Arthur 100% White WHOLE WHEAT Flour
Milled from hard white winter wheat, a new variety of wheat lacking the bitter compounds (phenolic acid) of red wheat.
Includes 100% of the bran and germ of the wheat berry.
Lighter color and sweeter flavor than that of traditional whole wheat.
Substitute for all-purpose flour in any cookie, brownie, muffin or quickbread recipe to add nutrition to desserts and snacks.
Coarsely ground, containing visible flecks of bran and germ.
So it's actually the wheat berry that's white.

Since it has all the bran and germ (the other part of the wheat is the endosperm, and they all have that part!) it should be just as good for you as other varieties of whole wheat. I think you will still have to bake bread as though you were using another whole wheat flour. (That is, don't use the techniques of white flour--you need a longer knead for whole wheat.)

I remember really enjoying using this flour in the past, but haven't in awhile.

Did you know this flour company is entirely employee owned?


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Speaking of flour







...

my friend offered me a five pound bag of flour. I thought that since she was sharing her special bread book with me, that it would be flour recommended in the bread book: unbleached white bread flour. (That's what I usually buy--actually, I usually buy one bag of organic unbleached bread flour, one bag of whole wheat bread flour, and one bag of whole wheat pastry flour, and then I stash them in the little plastic bags all over the kitchen!)

No. She gave me, for free (very generous) a bag of Gold Medal, blindingly bleached, all-purpose flour.

I think i'm going to use it to make pastry and that I'll add some wheat germ or something to it to make it less...something. I mean, more nutritious. Any ideas about how to jazz this up nutritionally and make it into something?


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## lisap (Dec 18, 2004)

Thanks for the info captain optimism! Another question:has anyone heard of and used hemp flour? My sister says it tastes great, it has a nutty flour. It's high in protein and she mixes it with whole wheat flour to bake with.


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## Thmom (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain optimism*
Speaking of flour







...and make it into something?

it'll make great paper mache


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## arty_mum (Feb 2, 2005)

great thread! I can share our bread recipe, my partner actually taught it to me, its delicious and of course healthy. The basic recipe is a kilogram or 2.2 pounds of flour, we use whole wheat, about 50 gr yeast, in warm weather one can get away with less, water. I add about a level teaspoon of salt, he doesnt







You can add a bit of sugar or honey or whatever , if you like. I also add about two cups of plain old fashioned oatmeal, not instant. Beyond that, whatever you like to add- flax seeds, bran, nuts, seeds, herbs, just one thing i have discovered, is that "less is more" and in my enthusiasm have created bread doughs that ended up being just .... TOO MUCH of a good thing, too many flavours together, so start out simple.
THe process is simple, we do it by hand, tho i have done it with the bread hook in the Kitchen Aid mixer till it died







- yeast plus sugar if added, and some warm water - let that sit a bit. Then add flour, oatmeal, and warm water slowly, kneading and kneading till you get it to be soft, elastic, and comes away from the sides of the bowl. With whole wheat flour , I have found that its important not to let it get too heavy , that sometimes its better to let the dough remain a bit sticky, rather than add more and more flour, cos then later it can be used as a lethal weapon ( ie, HEAVY)







- let it rise to double its bulk, covered, then punch down, let rise again. I use parchment or baking paper in the bread pans, i dont grease the pans or paper and i dont add any fat at all to the dough, and when the loafs are baked, they separate easily from the paper and i put them on a rack or just sit them on the pans in the opposite direction to cool. this amount makes four average loaves. I read that if you put a pan of water in the oven , underneath the rack on which the pans are sitting, it makes the outside of them crusty , tho i havent tried. I dont coat the loaves with anything. This recipe is vegan, no eggs, no milk, no fat too. Enjoy







BTW i have tried doing it with rye flour but that is a whole nother story, it reacts differently and i havent mastered it yet, will ask my partner, he told me about it but i dont remember right now, will add that later.


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## Catarina (Aug 26, 2004)

Captain Optimism, do you have a recipe for playdough? It uses a lot of flour and I always begrudge using my nice flour on it. You could share it with your friends.

And I have to demure at the "experienced bread baker" description. I'm not a bread maker at all - right now I'm using a bread machine to mix and knead and provide a warm place to rise. I take the dough out and shape and proof and bake in the oven. I'm very embarressed about my machine. I guess I feel that kneading it with your bare hands is the soul of breadmaking. But at least now we never buy bread, I know exactly what's in it, I have very few dishes or countertops to wash, and actually I'm learning a lot about bread - I've learned about humidity and warmth to help it rise, and I'm using much less yeast, a wetter dough, and longer rising times than I did when I tried making bread myself. Plus, making bread was one of those things that always stressed me out - my bread was always heavy and yeasty-tasting. (I never tried making white bread.)

I have a question - well, I have a lot of bread questions, but this is on the top of my mind just now - How do people finish their loaves? Sprinkle with flour, roll in oats, water wash, egg wash, oil wash, seeds, what? I want something to make my bread seem a bit more exciting, although usually I just make %100 whole wheat for sandwiches and toast.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Catarina, I would love a good playdough recipe! I think my ds would enjoy it a great deal. I don't think that you should disqualify yourself from being a bread baker just because you are using a bread machine. I think bread machines are cool, especially the part about not having to clean the countertop. The sourdough guy, Dr. Ed Wood, is very pro-bread-machine because you can control the temperature so well. Good for sourdoughs. (I still have not made one.







)

I almost always put sesame seeds on any enriched dough bread, because I love them. When I make challah, I do an egg wash. For my new favorite whole wheat bread, I mist the top of the loaf with water and stick the sesame seeds on that way. for all the lean hearth breads I have been learning to make, you slash the crust and don't use a wash, but I do put cornmeal on the pan or baking stone to make the cornmeal bottom--I like it.

arty_mum, rye flour is lower in gluten than wheat flour. I googled this to verify that I knew what I was talking about, and found a page that says that rye flour only has one of the two proteins that wheat does--only glutenen and not gliadin. Gluten is the protein in flour that holds the bubbles of gas exhaled by the yeast when the bread rises. Gluten develops when you knead. It's why all-rye breads are very dense.

(You know what I found out that was interesting--the standard deli rye--the kind with the carraway seeds on it-- which is made with rye flour and clear flour, is usually raised with both a commercial yeast and a starter--so both commercial and wild yeast.)

One reason I wasn't too happy to have a big bag of all-purpose bleached white flour is that it's lower in gluten than bread flour. (that and that it's bleached, which takes more nutrients out of the wheat. phooey.)


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## spyiispy (Jul 23, 2002)

Capt...ever thought of soaking your flour with kefir?? Are you familiar with the health benefits of kefir? Here's some info on how to do it (with quick breads)...but basically, you'd replace your water with kefir during the sponge step. Here's some of the basic tenets for maximizing the nutritional values of whole grains:

http://www.suegregg.com/about/intro1a.htm

Carry on!

Lisa


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## arty_mum (Feb 2, 2005)

oops i forgot to include, of course, that after i put the dough into the bread pans, i let it rise, covered with a clean towel , till it again rises, and then i bake


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## Catarina (Aug 26, 2004)

Speaking of rye, me and my breadmaker just made really nice bread using one-third (by weight) each of rye flour, white bread flour, and whole wheat bread flour, and carroway seeds - I think most of what I think of as the rye flavour is really a carroway flavour.


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## arty_mum (Feb 2, 2005)

lol when i tried rye flour , i used ONLY rye... let me tell you... it came out like bricks... arghhhhhhh


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## etoilech (Mar 25, 2004)

I've just started making bread, literally in the last few days. I've used Nigella Lawson's Domestic Goddess cookery book and tried the white bread, only I used what's called "Bio Halbweissmehl" which means organic half-white flour instead of pain white flour and I've been using fresh organic yeast (looks like a little brown block of playdough). It has turned out REALLY well. I now want to learn how to do whole wheat bread and rye breads. I was going to try a few more of her bread recipes as they are great for beginners and in METRIC. lol. I've not had a failure yet with any of her recipes.

I'd love to try some of your recipes, but I don't know how much fresh yeast to use... also you just add the fresh yeast to the four and water and don't faff about with water and feeding the yeast... it just does it's thing. Can anyone help?

Thanks!

Olivia


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

so i baked some bread last week w/ molasses. eh, not by best. think i'm going back to maple syrup for my sweetener.

so nobody is going to take up my bait on the salt-risen bread thing? i thought about making some, but think i'll order some for my mom instead. i read all about it on that link i gave earlier and it's bacteria-risen rather than yeast risen. interesting stuff. i remember i thought it was stinky when i was a kid.


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## Ame (Apr 15, 2002)

my favorite bread used to be bannana bread...now it's hemp banana bread









Hemp Banana Bread

Ingredients:

* 1-1/2 cups (375 mL) all-purpose flour
* 1/2 cup (125 mL) HEMPOLA Flour
* 3/4 cup (175 mL) whole wheat flour
* 1 cup (250 mL) unpacked brown sugar
* 1-1/2 tsp (7 mL) baking powder
* 1/2 tsp (2 mL) baking soda
* 1 tsp (5 mL) ground cinnamon
* 1/2 tsp (2 mL) salt
* 3 egg whites
* 2 tbsp (30 mL) butter
* 3/4 cup (175 mL) fat-free plain yogourt
* 1 tsp (5 mL) vanilla
* 2 cups (500 mL) mashed ripe bananas
* 1/2 cup (125 mL) toasted sesame seeds

Directions:

Preheat oven to 325°F (160°C). Spray 9" x 5" (23 x 23 cm) loaf pan with non-stick cooking spray.

Combine flours, sugar, baking powder, baking soda, cinnamon and salt in large bowl. In medium bowl, whisk egg whites, butter, yogourt and vanilla until smooth. Add mashed bananas and whisk again. Stir into dry ingredients, adding sesame seeds.

Pour batter into prepared loaf pan.

Bake for an hour and twenty minutes or until toothpick inserted in centre comes out clean.

Remove from pan and cool.


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## spyiispy (Jul 23, 2002)

Hey Olivia!! (I replied about the sling, btw). I like Nigella Lawson as well...wish I looked like her too!! She has a recipe for Hasselbeck potatoes that is AWESOME. My kids call them caterpillar potatoes, cuz that's what they look like. I'm not real proficient in metric...but with bread-making, I've gotten to where I just eye-ball the measurements. Would you like some dried sourdough starter?? Its VERY simple....and makes awesome bread. Its from a man named Carl Griffith who's family made sourdough on the Oregon Trail in the 1800's. He's kept the starter going for years and years and shares it with anyone who requests. If you'd like...I'll throw some starter in with the sling package to your mum (along with some simple instructions).

Happy bread making!

Lisa


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

You all are inspiring me! Once I stop being sick this winter (and feeling like death warmed over) I want to start making our bread again. It has been so long since I've made anything but a quick bread or muffin. I miss the wonderful aroma of baking bread ...







. And since my ds is a bread addict, it certainly will save us some dough. (Bad pun, I know. :LOL)

Anyway ... here is a playdough recipe I've used (it was given to me so I have no idea where it came from). I've never added the oil but I understand that it makes the dough more pliable. Maybe try a batch with and without to see what you like better.

2+ cups white flour (NOT self-rising)
1/2 cup table salt (plain or iodized)
1 cup HOT tap water
1 tsp cooking oil (optional)

Mix flour and salt together in a large bowl. Slowly mix in water (and oil, if using) while stirring. When stirring gets difficult, use your hand to knead in the bowl. Get every last drop of flour off the sides of the bowl and then turn out on the counter (or wherever) to knead until smooth and no longer sticky (maybe 5 minutes??). You may need to add more flour (1/4 to 1/2 cup or maybe more) to achieve this consistency. You may divide into portions and color using food coloring (and/or you can add glitter for sparkles), or leave alone as one big pile of dough. The recipe halves well. Store in an airtight container (I use yogurt containers). If the dough gets sticky, watery, or separates, knead in more flour. If left out, it will dry and harden.


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## arty_mum (Feb 2, 2005)

Doesn't bread baking arouse so many warm feelings and associations, even if you havent done it yourself? I love baking it but even just discussing it makes me feel good







and how nice to have this place for that


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Spyiispy---Your sourdough french bread sounds yummy!! Please post recipe!! Thanks.

I love french bread or italian bread loafs, but my bread making skills leave a lot to be desired. They are all really dense or don't taste good. Haven't been brave enough to try sourdough yet.

Anybody have a great sourdough recipe?


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## spyiispy (Jul 23, 2002)

I know what ya mean, artisticat. I just recently found a couple techniques that have really improved my French bread. The one thing, being the proofing box (see my last post for that info) and the second, being making sure there is steam in the oven right before you place the loaves in. I also bake mine on a pizza stone...but you can also use a couple of stone tiles, I've read. If you want....I could send you some sourdough starter (its dried, then pulverized in a coffee grinder). Here's my recipe for sourdough French bread...

Take your starter out of your fridge, feed it with a 1/4 cup of flour and enough water to make it a thick batter consistency. Cover loosely with a towel and let "activate" in a warm place. (Sometimes takes an hour, maybe more). It'll look nice and frothy. Next, make your sponge, which consists of a cup of your active starter, 2 cups flour, 2 cups water. Again, cover and place on counter til it doubles and gets frothy & bubbly. Now...to make the bread....

Remove enough sponge so you have 1 1/2 cups (give or take a little) left in the bowl. (Place extra sponge back in sourdough crock, put back in fridge) To this...add 1 cup potato water (room temp or warmer, if possible), 1/2 cup milk, 4 Tbsp butter melted, 5 cups flour, two teaspoons salt, two Tbsp sugar (or honey, Rapadura, etc). Knead til nice & elastic........place back in bowl (which I smear butter in), cover and allow to rise til doubled or tripled. Now...here's a trick:

IF you want a stronger sourdough taste........allow to rise SEVERAL hours in a cool place. Slow rise equals more sourdough flavor.

IF you want a very very slight sourdough taste.....allow to rise in a warm place.

When bread has risen sufficiently........take it out of bowl, slice into thirds and shape into three logs (I taper them at the end). With a sharp knife, make diagonal slashes in the loaves and dust with flour. Place onto pizza stone or tile and into proofing box. Allow to rise until doubled at least.

Heat oven to 375.....place a cookie sheet under baking rack (usually I put it on the bottom rack). Right before putting the loaves in...I pour a cup of water onto the heated cookie sheet.......Stick the loaves in QUICK and shut the door! Allow to bake for 10 minutes, then lower temp to 350. Bake til golden brown. You may want to mist the loaves with water to get a nice crusty crust.

Now I know its hard to resist hot bread.......but sourdough tastes better if it rests for a day first









Lisa


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Thanks.

Can't wait to try it. I would love some starter, unless it is pretty easy to do yourself. How do you make it yourself? Are you using white flour? Would wheat flour make it too heavy? What exactly is your crock you use for storing it in the fridge?








Sorry about all the questions!!


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## spyiispy (Jul 23, 2002)

Don't be sorry bout asking questions....I've derived so much information from mamas on here; I'm just happy to share some knowledge I might possess







I got my crock from the thrift store. They always have them there. Its a little clay "jar" with a clay lid and metal spring latch. Make sense?? Chances are....if you visit your thrift shop, you'll come home with one. If you don't have one...you can just as easily use a glass jar.

I do use a mixture of unbleached white flour, hand-milled red winter wheat flour and a little bit of rye (just for good measure....sourdough seems to like rye flour). The potato water helps to make it lighter. The recipe is very forgiving, though.....just dive right in. I'd be happy to send you some of my starter...which I got from the Friends of Carl Griffith (since Carl has died awhile back...his friends are carrying on his sourdough legacy and sending starter to anyone who requests). Or...you can send them a self-addressed stamped envelope and they'll be happy to send you some of the original starter as well....here's the details:

http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/

I have a 2 year old who's about an hour past her naptime.....gotta run...

Lisa


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Maybe you mamas can help me figure out how to have fresh from the oven bread for this dinner gig I'm throwing on Sunday. Timing is my problem. Here's what's going on.

At about 2:15pm, we're all leaving to go to a concert (my dh is in a community choir). The concert is going to last about 2+ hours, so with travel time to/from, I'll probably arrive home around 5:15 or so. I'm setting the oven to go on automatically to start baking dinner (lasagna) while I'm gone, and to finish between 5:15 and 5:30 (when I get home I'll put it in my warming drawer for holding). I'd like to have fresh from the oven bread with dinner so do you think I should make my bread to the formed loaf stage and then do the final rise in the fridge while I'm gone (will that be too much/too little rising??) and put the bread in the oven as soon as the lasagna comes out, so we can eat around 6pm, or is this merely a pipe dream on my part? Can I do this?

Thanks! Oh, I'm probably making a simple Italian loaf (not baguettes).


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Don't try to time the bread to come out fresh from the oven right before you eat it. First of all, it's too difficult and it'll stress you out. Secondly, most bread finishes baking while it cools, so if it's right out of the oven it could be doughy in the middle. Bake the bread in advance and put it in the warm oven or the warming drawer about twenty minutes before dinner. As long as the drawer isn't too warm the bread should just warm and not toast.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Thanks cap o. I always forget about the doughiness.







I'll do the bread that morning.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Has anyone tried (successfully! :LOL ) any gluten-free, whole grain bread? We eat soooo much whole wheat that I'm thinking I should vary our diet a little more!


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

I love baking bread. When I had 3 kids under the age of 4 I somehow found time to mix, knead and bake every week but now that they are older I am so grateful for my breadmaker. I use it just for kneading because I like shaping and baking it my own way. My 8 y.o. uses the breadmaker and that is nice. He likes to knead and play with the dough for awhile before shaping and baking it. When he was little he loved doing it the traditional way, but at least this is betetr than nothing. I like the machine because it is far easier to get 100% whole wheat dough thoroughly mixed that way than it is by hand.

I love trying different recipes but my kids love plain whole wheat bread so that is what I usually make. Someday we will branch out again!


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

You've all got me tempted to bake bread. I used to bake with my Nan but we had all day to do not a lot, with all that's going on here most days I will have to plan it carefully. I don't have an exciting bread recipe to share but I do have a cooked play dough with a great elastic texture which lasts for ages without going yicky.

In a saucepan -

2 cups of the cheapest flour you can find sieved
1 cup of salt
2 tbsp oil
4tsp cream of tartar
2 cups of water.
a splurge of food colouring

You can add glitter to this mix too and it won't shed too much when you play.

Heat over a low heat stirring all the time until it starts to gather into a ball. Push it all together til the pan is dry.
Pop it out onto a work top and knead it a bit, its lovely and warm; really therapeutic especially if you have achy joints in your hands.

Play away! Store in a plastic bag or pot, no need for keeping it in the fridge.


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## awnja (Sep 1, 2004)

Can I freeze yeast bread dough?


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## arty_mum (Feb 2, 2005)

I have never tried it myself but i found this thru googling:
Unbaked yeast dough can be frozen. It is best to freeze it before the final rising period. Let it rise the first time, punch it down and shape into the desired shape and then freeze. Thaw it at room temperature for 3 hours or overnight in the refrigerator

let me know how it works









http://www.foodreference.com/html/tyeastdough.html


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## cresorchid (Nov 14, 2004)

Hi everyone,

I just found this thread and am so thrilled. I didn't have time to read ALL the previous pages though.

I started out about 8 years ago using a breadmaker which was fantastic. I went through a couple of breadmakers and got sick of needing one. I also wanted the pleasure of kneading and truly baking my own bread, so I haven't replaced the last breadmaker.

I have found many recipes, but the vast majority are for 2 loaves at a time. Since my son won't eat homemade bread (go figure) I don't want a huge amount of bread. I eat it all myself and I don't like the taste and texture of bread that has been previously frozen. So I've been having trouble.

I know that one can adapt the breadmaker recipes, but I don't know exactly how. When I use a breadmaker recipe (I know, you're not supposed to) the bread doesn't cook all the way through and it is heavy.

I have been using Sucanat with my yeast and water, and it has worked just fine. I also usually mix white flour with whole wheat.

Any suggestions or ideas would be great. Thanks so much.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

This thread got me up off my duff and into the kitchen. I haven't baked bread in forever, and bread makes my heart sing.









So thank you all for the fact that my house now smells wonderful and my stomach is happy.

Maybe I'll designate Sundays as bread day. (Toddler keeps me way too busy on the weekdays)


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