# Minimum amount of meat for health?



## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I know opinions will vary wildly but I'm interested: what do you think the minimum amount of meat (per week, day, month, year, hour, lol, whatever) a person should eat for good health?

And keep in mind - I'm asking about minimum, not necessarily your square-on ideal. So if you think a person needs meat three meals a day ideally but could probably be ok with once a day, that's what I'm looking for. Or if you think a person can be quite healthy with no meat ever, I'm also interested in your opinion.


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## avendesora (Sep 23, 2004)

I read a study that said that the order of mortality was: regular meat eaters, vegans, vegetarians, occasional meat-eaters. It didn't specify what 'occasional' was, though. I was vegetarian for 13 years and felt good for the first part of that, but then I started having dreams and craving for meat, so my body was trying to tell me something... We currently eat meat 3 times a week, and we feel pretty good.

However - that study didn't differentiate between any subgroups - grassfed omnivores who also eat their vegetables vs. SAD omnivores who never eat fruits or veggies, and likewise SAD-like vegetarians vs. whole food vegetarians.

Your body will tell you what you need. People have different needs.

Aven


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Liver, CLO, bone broths, eggs. Occasionally, each would be beneficial, imo.

Pat


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

:

I think it also depends on how you define health. Optimal health? I think we need some animal protein, but can get by without MEAT per se. Yogurt, cheese, eggs, etc, can go a long way. It's still animal products, though. I think fish oil is important, too, because flax only goes so far...

But then, I have friends who are vegan who I wouldn't call "unhealthy", but they do find the need to supplement with vitamins, which are also vegan varieties of vitamins...


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

I think some people could have pretty darn good health without meat per se, if they had high-quality animal products for the fat soluble vitamins and overall paid attention to nutritious food, like we all need to. But so many people are starting from a less-than-great health place (or maybe it's just the threads I read, that's very possible







) that a lot of additional changes are needed so that they feel good, whether it's gluten-free or grain-free or dairy-free or whatever, including maybe needing a lot of meat.


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## cristeen (Jan 20, 2007)

I think it really depends on the person. For myself I need meat or eggs daily, at least once. But I know many people can be healthy only eating meat once or twice a week.


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## Poddi (Feb 18, 2003)

Would fish and seafood count as "meat"?

If they do then I have to eat some everyday to feel good. If only chicken, beef, pork and lamb count as meat then once a week is quite enough.

Meat is easier to digest for weak stomach and gives me energy. I personally feel having energy to do things everyday is much more important than living a few more years.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Our bodies are all different. Some people can thrive on a vegetarian diet, or maybe eat meat once a month, and remain healthy. Many of these individuals would NOT be healthy if they ate meat several times a day. Others (like myself) need meat (or fish or poultry) twice a day, and red meat 3X a week.


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## es1967 (Oct 31, 2007)

I too think it depends on the person. I've been a lacto-vegetarian for about 23 years and feel great. I'm the same weight as I was when I was in my teens.







: I do go to great lengths and am obsessed with good health. I love to juice, make smoothies, eat alot of the superfoods. Do not drink any alcohol. So I'm sure its the combinations of everything that I do that works for me.


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## reducereuserecycle (Jan 16, 2007)

personally, i eat meat once or twice a week and that seems to work for me. i tried vegetarian for several months one time and that worked too.


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## reducereuserecycle (Jan 16, 2007)

oh, and i am a strong believer in the blood type diet. if you've never read about it go to www.dadamo.com it is very interesting and can make you feel great!


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## Holiztic (Oct 10, 2005)

You might be interested to read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A Price, as a lot of his work explored and compared how much meat/dairy/grain/veg each culture ate and what their health was like. For instance, he found the healthiest were the cultures that ate the most dairy (raw, 'organic' by default of course, full fat, local of course and often fermented) and seafoods, with meat anywhere from a couple times a month to every meal. The least healthy were of course the people that had converted to a processed white flour/sugar diet, and in between were the cultures that relied heavily on grains and veggies with minimal (but still present) meat/dairy.

I personally feel best when I eat meat daily (though not at all meals).

I have been lacto-ovo, vegan, low-fat "politically correct" omnivore, and now meat/egg/dairy heavy Traditional Foods, so I have definitely been able to see how I did on each diet.

Finally, WHAT meat you eat makes a significant difference in the nutrition of it. Organic, pastured/grass-fed, with the fat (for the fat soluble vitamins/activators) and ideally organ meats (I am STILL working on that one after 6 years of TF) are a world different from factory farmed, CAFO (even organic) meats with all the fat removed!

Regarding the order of mortality, keep in mind that "regular meat eaters" are likely to be people eating cheap meat including fast food (with fries, soda, etc) and overall a highly processed diet, smoking was likely higher in that group, too, as well as alcohol consumption. I have no idea what study this was, so I can only guess, but if it was done in the last 30 years or so and in this or another "industrialized" country, I would definitely make the above guess.


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## Liquesce (Nov 4, 2006)

I really don't think most anyone (barring relevant allergies, medical conditions, or a lack of access to alternative options) _needs_ meat, but I do think going without entails a lot more work and micromanagement for some people than it does for others.


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## reeseccup (Jul 3, 2003)

I believe through lots of research and seeing first hand results, the average adult person (one that gets a reasonable amount of exercise several times a week) for good health needs about 5-7 (depending on size and activity level) oz. of protein a day, with 2-3 oz of that protein from a flesh (I count fish as flesh) source.

There are always exceptions to the "rules" though.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

For me personally at least once daily, at least. I have tried doing healthy whole food vegetarian meals it does not work for my body. I also like to eat copious amounts of vegetables- ideally greens daily. Nuts and seeds. No grains or dairy and lots of good fat. Meat I try to use at least organic and the most part grassfed or wild(deer).


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## kohlby (Dec 5, 2005)

I don't need any meat. I was ovo-lacto vegetarian for 15 years. It worked great for me - though I can't imagine going vegan. I started eating chicken and turkey again when I had to give up dairy and soy when my second child had an allergy. I resumed a vegetarian diet but then once again added poultry back in - this time because I have to be on a diabetic diet for life. (I'm not diabetic but have severe insulin resistance so the hopes is that this can prevent me from getting diabetes). I don't notice a difference between eating meat and not eating meat. I eat lean chicken or turkey 5-7 times a week.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Holiztic* 
Finally, WHAT meat you eat makes a significant difference in the nutrition of it. Organic, pastured/grass-fed, with the fat (for the fat soluble vitamins/activators) and ideally organ meats (I am STILL working on that one after 6 years of TF) are a world different from factory farmed, CAFO (even organic) meats with all the fat removed!

I completely agree with that. We eat meat daily, at least once. It works for us, but I really think it depends on the person and what type of meat they eat.


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## reeseccup (Jul 3, 2003)

Oh, totally! Quality is VERY important when it comes to meat, or anything for that matter, do the best quality you can afford.


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## northerngirl (Oct 6, 2006)

I think that every body is different and therefore you need to find the diet that works for you wither it be meat or no meat.
I have been lacto-ovo veg for ~9 years. With the addition of my daughter in 2006 I started eating chicken and taking CLO. I was having dreams of eating meat, so I figured I should be eating some meat.

Fast forward to today, pregnant, and I just recently found out that I have a low wheat/gluten intolerance and was suggested to only have it 2x per week.
I want to start adding more meat into my diet.

If any of those vegetarians who started eating meat again could give me some pointers suggestions/recipes please. I have no idea how to cook meat or what to eat. Please pm me. Thanks.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

I eat meat about 3 times a week. I am overweight, but in good health and I feel good.


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## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

I think that evolutionarily, our bodies were made to eat meat/animal protein on a somewhat regular, but perhaps not daily, basis. However, the human body has amazing adaptive capabilities and can work just fine on a variety of diets.


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## lisabc311 (May 18, 2003)

I would recommend reading, "The China Study" by T. Colin Campbell. Fascinating research showing when consumption of animal proteins increase so do all the Western illnesses, such as heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc.

Looking towards cultures that are the healthiest (lacking disease) and longest living (living active, full lives well into old age), they all consume diets heavy in plant products with just a small amount of animal protein occasionally.

So my answer is, less is more!


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

I feel absolutely horrid on a vegetarian diet. I found out in the last year that I am now pre-diabetic and have severe insulin resistance and have been doing a LOT of research on how to best handle this from a nutritional point of view. I was getting to the point that I was nearly (whole foods) vegan, and felt HORRIBLE. Once I started adding meat and dairy back into my diet I feel better, and I have to stop eating starches, pretty much entirely, if I want to delay or prevent diabetes. I will let you know in a few weeks if it actually helps as much as it has seemed to the last few days.

Most of my family (parents, aunts and uncles, cousins) feel really run down if they don't get enough meat, so I think there is a genetic component too. I can follow all the "rules" of a healthy vegetarian/vegan diet and feel like sleeping all day, but I start adding in meat and dairy and I feel human again.

Since I am not doing hard labor, I think that meat/animal protein at least once a day would be sufficient. I try to vary it and include fish two to three times a week, beef once or twice, chicken once or twice, and other random meats as I come across recipes I like.


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## Holiztic (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisabc311* 
I would recommend reading, "The China Study" by T. Colin Campbell. Fascinating research showing when consumption of animal proteins increase so do all the Western illnesses, such as heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc.

Looking towards cultures that are the healthiest (lacking disease) and longest living (living active, full lives well into old age), they all consume diets heavy in plant products with just a small amount of animal protein occasionally.

So my answer is, less is more!









Be sure also to look at criticisms of the China Study. here's a start:

http://www.westonaprice.org/bookreviews/chinastudy.html
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.co...asterjohn.html

Also, keep in mind it was an epidemiological study, which does very little more than suggest topics for further (controlled) study.

For example: most vegetarians are young (let's say under 40)* so being vegetarian must stop aging (literally stop your birthdays from happening)

* I don't actually know this, just an hypothetical (and simplified) example of how an epid. study works


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## chamomeleon (Jun 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avendesora* 
I read a study that said that the order of mortality was: regular meat eaters, vegans, vegetarians, occasional meat-eaters.

Aven, is there any way you could find and provide a link to this study? I'd be really interested in reading it. Thanks!


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## BarnMomma (Dec 12, 2008)

My family and I eat some sort of animal protein daily. Usually with dinner. BUT, and this is a HUGE but, we ONLY eat pasture raised, humanely slaughtered local meats. And only wild caught fish. I insist on seeing where my meat comes from and seeing the animals. Luckily, I have lots of great farms within a 2 hour driving radius so getting great meat is easy.

I won't touch "conventional" meat products. But I think the naturally raised animals are very healthy to eat.


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## mnnice (Apr 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BarnMomma* 
My family and I eat some sort of animal protein daily. Usually with dinner. BUT, and this is a HUGE but, we ONLY eat pasture raised, humanely slaughtered local meats. And only wild caught fish. I insist on seeing where my meat comes from and seeing the animals. Luckily, I have lots of great farms within a 2 hour driving radius so getting great meat is easy.

I won't touch "conventional" meat products. But I think the naturally raised animals are very healthy to eat.

This is my take as well. I will eat a little CAFO lunch meat from time to time for convience and sometimes at other people's home so I don't look picky. I end up eating a lot of veggie meals when I travel and try to plan a couple veggie meals per week.


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## Tigeresse (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reducereuserecycle* 
oh, and i am a strong believer in the blood type diet. if you've never read about it go to www.dadamo.com it is very interesting and can make you feel great!

I agree with this. It goes a long way in explaining why some people do well on very little animal flesh and some people need more.

I need a little animal protein every meal. Veg. diet sent me into a downward spiral leading to all kinds of problems. I'm the type who needs almost no grains, and to keep the animal protein up.


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## ambereva (Jul 15, 2004)

I don't eat ANY meat or any other animal products and I am healthier than I've ever been in my life. Every single nagging health problem I had before changing my diet has resolved, I've stabilized at a health weight after battling obesity since I was 8, I have become competitively athletic for the first time in my life, I have visible muscle definition from head to foot (never had that when I was eating meat), my energy level is through the roof...I could go on...

All that said, I think every body has different nutritional needs. I clearly thrive on this diet, but that doesn't mean I think everyone else would. I'm blood type AB+, and I'm on the fence about the blood type diet, but my type is supposed to do well on a veggie diet.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ambereva* 
I don't eat ANY meat or any other animal products and I am healthier than I've ever been in my life. Every single nagging health problem I had before changing my diet has resolved, I've stabilized at a health weight after battling obesity since I was 8, I have become competitively athletic for the first time in my life, I have visible muscle definition from head to foot (never had that when I was eating meat), my energy level is through the roof...I could go on...

All that said, I think every body has different nutritional needs. I clearly thrive on this diet, but that doesn't mean I think everyone else would. I'm blood type AB+, and I'm on the fence about the blood type diet, but my type is supposed to do well on a veggie diet.

Interesting. I am AB- and do horrendous with a veggie diet. Everything you said could be said the opposite for me. I do not tolerate grains well and my body needs animal protein a lot of it. How my body will change as it continues to heal from taking out gluten and dairy- who knows it will be interesting, but I just follow the cues and eat accordingly.


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## ambereva (Jul 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
Interesting. *I am AB- and do horrendous with a veggie diet.* Everything you said could be said the opposite for me. I do not tolerate grains well and my body needs animal protein a lot of it. How my body will change as it continues to heal from taking out gluten and dairy- who knows it will be interesting, but I just follow the cues and eat accordingly.

Yeah, that's why I'm on the fence in regards to the blood type diet. I know too many healthy people who's blood type and diet don't 'match'.

FTR, I don't eat much in the way of grains...a slice of homemade sourdough bread here and there, maybe a small serving of quinoa once or twice a week, that's pretty much it. And I get an ample supply of protein from nut butters, hemp and a little bit of local organic tofu (we're so lucky to have a small local producer who sells at our farmer's market, I've seen the farm where his beans are grown and the kitchen he makes the tofu in). The bulk of my diet is fresh organic produce.


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## Leatherette (Mar 4, 2003)

I haven't eaten meat in 20 years, and it works for me. I have fish maybe 2-3 times a year. I used to eat too much dairy, but now have a child with a dairy intolerance, so not that much now. I take a vegan multi with iron, and a vegan vit. d supplement. We raise our own chickens for eggs, so I do eat those-2-4 a week.

My son is almost 9, hasn't eaten meat or fish ever, and is very healthy and 99th percentile on growth charts.

To me, one of the health benefits of not eating meat is not having the option of slipping into a fast food rut when busy or travelling.

So, for me, no meat needed.


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