# Keeping shoes on in the car



## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Any suggestions on what I can do to have Adaline keep her shoes on in the car?

She takes them off every time and throws them in the floor of the minivan, which requires me (with my huge freakin belly) to go around to the other side of the van, crawl over a seat, pick them up, go back over to her side, and put them on. It also adds and extra 2-3 minutes to every single stop we make when we run errands.

It's getting cold outside, and Im losing my patience about it. I've had to do this in the chilly rain a few times now, and Im not a happy camper about it. I need her to keep her shoes on. We have two more babies coming, and I cant imagine having to get two more kids out of the car, and having to deal with her shoes. We have to run errands, and that's not going to end. I cant leave her with someone every time, so this has to be resolved.

Ive tried negotiation. I've tried rewards. I've tried explaining how hard it is for mommy to reach her shoes. Her shoes are the right size, they are always cute, they are always pretty, she picks them out when we buy them and every day when deciding what to wear, and she loves wearing shoes when we are out. She just gets in the car and her mind somehow clicks over to "Oh, were inside, I cant take off my shoes".

My solution is just go go a few weeks without letting her wear tights (she hates socks) and everytime she takes her shoes off, she has to walk barefoot to wherever we are going. It's cold (but not very cold), so she'll only do it a few times, IMO. But, DH thinks it's "too mean". IMO, the natural consequence of taking off your shoes, is that you dont have shoes on when it's time to get out, so you dont wear shoes to wherever we're going.

Im open to other suggestions, but Im serious about nipping this in the bud in the next couple of weeks before it gets freezing outside and Im standing out in freezing rain putting her shoes on.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

That doesn't sound too mean to me. Doing it in snow would be mean. nak.


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## mumkimum (Nov 14, 2006)

We've gone through this stage too.









I found that the best I could do to prevent it (or keep it from becoming too annoying for myself) was either going only with:

1. Shoes that were super easy to put on/off (slip on rain boots or sneakers/crocs/etc. - nothing with a buckle or attachment of any kind). So that it wasn't me putting her shoes back on - I'd just hand everything to dd and tell her what to do (or unbuckle her and have her get and do it herself).

You could also put them on her to walk to the car, remove them after helping her in and putting them somewhere easy for you to get them, and then have her put them back on herself when you are wherever you're going.

AND I just realized that dd2 here is just 4 days older than yours -- so yeah, I think you're fine asking her to crawl around the car to get the shoes and do it herself, assuming that you have shoes she can do completely by herself.

2. Tied shoes that dd1 couldn't take off herself (not sure whether that is also the case for your dd). And yes - I'd sometimes wrap the laces around to tie in the back too, and sometimes it didn't help (but sometimes it did).

I think either of these would end up having a minor but understandable consequence of her not being allowed to wear whatever shoes she wanted, until this wasn't such a big problem when going out. I don't think I'd have my kid walking places barefoot because they took off their shoes in the car, but I don't think it's that big a deal to end up doing it that way. Especially when the brunt of what you need to do to fix the shoes is currently difficult and just getting to you the way this sounds like it has. Good luck.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mumkimum*
> 
> We've gone through this stage too.
> 
> ...


Well, since she LOVES to crawl all over the van and play, Im sure she would not view this as any kind of consequence. It would, however, add even more time onto my errands, so Im not sure that is an option. Plus, Id still have to get out to unstrap her, then stand there or get back in the car until she got her shoes on. (she can put all of her shoes on herself, we only have one pair with laces).

I have tried taking them off myself and then putting them on when we get where we are going, and that works out okay, but now that it's getting cold, Im already going to have to get out of the van, put my coat on, unstrap her, put her coat on, and then also put her shoes on and Id really like to remove as many steps as possible because I hate standing in cold parking lots forever. I really want to just be able to get out and go for these last couple of months of pregnancy (because, lets face it, it will be the last time in my entire life that Ill ever be able to just get out and go anywhere  )


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

I don't think having her walk barefoot in the cold is too mean, but I wonder if she's still a little young to think ahead about the consequences and stop herself from taking her shoes off to avoid a consequence or get a reward. Especially since it sounds like taking her shoes off has become such a habit that she may do it automatically, without even thinking about it. It would probably be better if you could somehow stop her before she takes them off and keep doing that enough times that she gets out of the habit.

How quickly can she get them off, and how hard is it for you tell that she's doing it? Could you plan some short trips where you try to keep an eye on what she's doing and nip the shoe removal in the bud as soon as she starts? Or if you can't see what she's doing, can you remind her very frequently as you're driving that she needs to keep her shoes on and keep asking her if they're still on? I know this would be a pain, but maybe you could do some very short trips - 5 or 10 minutes at first - just to practice keeping shoes on and during those trips you could constantly - like every 30 seconds - remind her to keep her shoes on. Maybe you could pass back little food rewards every time you check and her shoes are still on.

Or what if you do something to make it harder for her to get them off, or at least make her stop and think and remember she's supposed to keep them on? Maybe you could tie plastic grocery bags over them, or slip adult socks over them. That would also be a pain, but maybe it would be worth doing it for a while just to break the habit.

Personally, I think I would just have her wear crocs or rain boots and take them off myself and put them in a convenient place every time.


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## mumkimum (Nov 14, 2006)

Sigh. Yeah, kids can make finding solutions to this kind of stuff a real pain sometimes. I'll admit I can't remember much else we ended up doing that helped at the time, other than lots of yelling and pleading about "Just please don't take off your shoes! Not again! And why your socks too, now where are they?!"

I feel like I may have seen some version of leg warmers/shoe covers for the slightly older toddler designed to keep them warm, but might help for something like this. I'll look around during my aimless internet time and see if I come across it again - but like a fleece cover for lower legs/top of shoe with a bit of elastic on each end. (Again, designed to keep them warm, but if it covered the shoe enough it might work out for you too?).

Would she go for something like: tie some pretty ribbons over her shoes. Tell her they're to remind her to NOT take off her shoes for you when you guys are out, and that if she feels like she wants to take off her shoes she can take off the ribbons instead (you could tie bells onto them for playing, even?). It might help satisfy her boredom in the car which is probably why she's taking off the shoes (just something to do). ??? If she likes novel/new things, it might be interesting enough to help her avoid the habit after a few tries.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

I think if you allow her/force her to walk barefoot from the car to the store, you are opening yourself up to well-meaning strangers who don't understand the situation calling CPS, or giving you dirty looks, etc.

I used the pink converse high-tops with laces that she could not untie when she was that age. Anything to make your life easier right now, Mama, even if it means she can't be as independent in putting her shoes on for a while.


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## chel (Jul 24, 2004)

My dd is a couple of months older.
I would just not put shoes on until we get out of the car.
This phase ended soon enough.


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## MrsGregory (Dec 21, 2011)

Little Miss also hates her shoes. I've retrieved a shoe from just about everywhere... the lettuce display, under another car, she's got an awesome throwing arm. She doesn't respond to "consequences" with anything other than amusement (although, to be fair, I'm talking about a 13-month old here, so our "consequences" are really just practice, and pretty laughable) so I went the opposite route about a month ago, when I realized she was gearing up to walk and shoes would soon become a real need instead of just adorable. I started putting her shoes on just before something AWESOME happened outside. For example, I'd stick her shoes on, and then take her to the swing. Oh yeah. Or I'd stick her shoes on and we'd go get the mail. SWEET! In any case, I associated something positive with shoes as often as possible throughout the day. I don't know if you, being pregnant with twins, have the energy for this approach, but it's worked really well for us. She rarely pitches her shoes off any more. She gets all excited to see them.

Hang in there!


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

I would definitely NOT go with the plan of taking off her shoes yourself and then putting them back on. That is just going to reinforce the idea in her mind that shoes comes off when we get in the car.

I also dont' think having her walk barefoot is mean, but I also don't think it is really a good consequence. I mean, she can't just walk barefoot around stores or restaurants, so you are still going to have to stand around and put her shoes on outside anyway.

I would go with either shoes she CAN'T get off, (if there are any) combined with almost constant reminders to keep her shoes on, and maybe even rewards that you give her as soon as you arrive at your destination if she keeps her shoes on for the entire ride. If you have any dolls that have shoes, you could also use the dolls for "practice" or role-playing and if she ever rides in the car with anyone else in the backseat then be sure to point out how mommy/daddy/nana/etc. is wearing their shoes while riding in the car. I think basically just keep reminding her to keep her shoes on and do as much reinforcing fo that concept as possible.

Good luck!


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Thanks. I hadnt thought of the idea of using her doll.

I think the part that frustrates me so much is that I *constantly* remind her while we are in the car. By constantly, I mean every 20-30 seconds- it's the primary thing Im doing while in the car. I cant ever make a phone call, or listen to the radio, or anything while Im in the car, because it feels like my sole job is verbally reminding her. Then, when I get to the destination and they are off Im really annoyed.

I think you are right about how she cant walk around in stores, so Ill still have to put her shoes back on her at some point. I really dont want to take her shoes off and put them back on every time, mainly because Im super worried about having to get three kids out of the car and still having to put her damn shoes on everytime.

She's a super negotiater, and she *def* knows when she is doing something she isnt supposed to. She works well with consequences, I just cant seem to find one that works. We only have one pair of shoes that doesnt come off, and they arent very good for walking in if it has rained or is cold (they are converse shoes) Maybe I should invest in something to keep from taking them off.

Im going to try the doll and also tying ribbons around her shoes this week and we'll see if that helps.


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## Boot (Jan 22, 2008)

Is she still rear facing? Personally, I prefer my rear facing 2 year old to have shoes off in the winter to protect the car seat. It's super easy to slip rain boots on and off. Much less work than ribbons if you ask me. Another option would be to put elastic cuff rain pants over boots. She won't be able to get them off then!


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

She is still rear facing. Our winters really arent bad enough to need to protect the car seat. She wont be walking through tons of snow or anything. It's just unpleasant to stand in a parking lot and put her shoes on. The thing is, she fights putting them back on , she wants to do everything herself, and it takes forever.


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## skycheattraffic (Apr 16, 2012)

I would just go with rain boots. Strap her in, whip them off in a second and put them in a cup holder up front. At the destination, slip them on in two seconds and then het her out. Since she is a smart girl, the consequence of only being able to wear the boots instead of the pretty shoes she likes should help. If she REALLY wants to put them on herself then the rain boots again are super quick. Since you take them, you won't have to hunt for them. I know it's more work than having her keep them on but it's less work than reminding her and fighting with her.


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## sunshadow (May 17, 2009)

I'd just take them off when she got into the car and put them back on when it's time to get out. My daughter always takes her shoes off, so my son wants to too. They usually just drop to the ground and they put them back on when we get to our destination, or if at home they frequently walk in barefoot. I don't know. It's never really bothered me I guess. It takes them longer to finally get out of their seats after I unlatch them than it takes me to get their shoes back on. If I really hated it, I'd probably try and find some shoes that were not so easy to get off. Duct tape? kidding.


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## sarafi (Feb 10, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skycheattraffic*
> 
> I would just go with rain boots. Strap her in, whip them off in a second and put them in a cup holder up front. At the destination, slip them on in two seconds and then het her out. Since she is a smart girl, the consequence of only being able to wear the boots instead of the pretty shoes she likes should help. If she REALLY wants to put them on herself then the rain boots again are super quick. Since you take them, you won't have to hunt for them. I know it's more work than having her keep them on but it's less work than reminding her and fighting with her.










Rainboots. And I would take them off when you strap her in, throw them back as soon as you park and have her "race" to get them on before you get unbuckled and around to her door.

I have four kids and a super hard to navigate car and I feel your pain. Toddlers just.don't.care. that they are making you wait and in my opinion drag things out more if you harp on them.


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## Mittsy (Dec 29, 2009)

Can she put the shoes on easily by herself? If my kids kick their shoes off in the car I normally leave them on the floor, and then I have them put the shoes on when we arrive. If we go somewhere where shoes are not required I let the kids decide whether they would like to wear them or not. I insist that it is my childs choice whether to go barefoot or not, unless we're going into a store or another place of business, but I do insist we bring shoes with us in case they either change their minds or get questioned about shoes.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

I think the constant reminders are what is causing the issue. You are making it into a HUGE deal. That is a lot of power the shoes have.

I have a shoe remover too. He's 5 and his shoes still come off almost every time we are in the car. Heck he tries to take them off on the subway to!

I admit sometimes I get mad and frustrated about it (really we were moving the car around the parking lot to a closer store and the shoes came off!)

But we just have easy on shoes (rainboots, crocs, keen shoes with the bungee cord style laces) and I put them on before I unbuckle him.

Our issue is that he sometimes chucks them in the car (into the trunk and once in a whole up front) and that causes major issues (it is dangerous to throw things in the car)

I'd agree with the other that you choose easy on/off shoes. They come off when she goes in the seat and back on before she is unbuckled. If that means she can't wear her favorite shoes in the car so be it.


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## puddle (Aug 30, 2007)

You're asking what you can do to make a toddler choose to keep her shoes on in the car. The answer is: nothing. There is absolutely nothing in the universe that you can do to ensure that your toddler will choose to keep her shoes on. You can beg, threaten, punish, bribe, cry, whine, or scream. But none of those things can force your toddler to make the choice that you want her to make. It's frustrating as hell, but that's just how it is. So, since you can't compel her to do what you want her to do, you have to decide how to change the situation. Either remove the choice, by putting on shoes that are impossible for her to take off, or control the situation by removing the shoes yourself so you don't have to crawl around, or take your chances and try to stack the odds in your favor that she'll make the choice you want through begging, bribes, punishments, etc. Those are really your only options.

Maybe if you take them off yourself, you can pass them back to her to put on herself before you get out of the car? That will still take awhile, but at least you don't have to stand out in the cold waiting, which sounds like one of your biggest concerns. The other thing I'm hearing is that you're really afraid of how this is going to work when you add twins to the mix. I can't really help there, since I've never had twins, and that does sound a little overwhelming. But you can't make your DD be any older than she is. You need her to grow up and help, but she just can't. She's still mostly a baby herself. Also, I've found that sometimes, when I've put a lot of energy into worrying about how I'm going to cope with a behavior, it ends up resolving itself anyway. I was worried about a lot of things before my second child was born, but I found that 1) he was a million times easier than his big sister was, 2) it was so much easier the second time because I already knew how to be a mom--I knew how to bathe a baby and nurse a baby and comfort a baby, and 3) everything was so much easier to handle when I just wasn't pregnant anymore. Again, I know twins are going to be a much bigger adjustment for you and your family, but you may be putting more energy into worrying about how big of an impact the shoe issue is going to have.

I hope you do get to enjoy the rest of your pregnancy, however the shoe thing plays out!


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Guys, I really not being ridiculous here. There are TONS of kids her age that dont take their shoes off in the car. We are around other children all the time whose parents dont deal with this. I asked what I can do to NOT have her take them off, not what I can do to let her keep doing the same thing and it not bother me. Im 6 months pregnant with twins in the winter. Im not standing in parking lots putting shoes back on. Shes going to have to learn not to do this, just like she learns not to do lots of other things I tell her not to do. She did it long before the reminders, so the reminders arent whats causing it. Im not going to ignore the problem here, which seems to be the basic answer to any question I ever have when coming to this board. I know what my child is capable of learning to not do. Gentle discipline does not always equal redefining what is okay for you and your family just to not make your child have to change her behavior.

Ill figure it out myself- thanks for all your input.


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## salr (Apr 14, 2008)

I think the ribbon idea is a great idea to help her learn that shoes stay on in the car, while giving her an outlet for boredom, if you can handle that extra step or two. But if you're just at the end of your rope I'd go ahead and buy some tall shoes with laces that she can't undo herself. That would be a quick solution and the only thing you'd have to do is explain that those are the shoes she wears when you're going places now because she was taking the others off, and deal with whatever whining ensued.


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## skycheattraffic (Apr 16, 2012)

I'm sorry you didn't find my approach helpful, I was genuinely trying to help. I'm a "pick my battles" type mom and this would be a situation I would handle by removing the problem. There were other posters who made suggestions about how to help keep the shoes on (shoe covers/legwarmers, ribbons) and I also remember a post about how this may be an automatic habit that is not done on purpose. We are brainstorming and chiming in, suggesting different approaches that could make travel with a toddler and newborn twins a little easier. If this was a simple matter of learning how not to do it like other things in the past, I'd imagine she would have stopped by now. I don't think anyone said you were being ridiculous. It's a tough nut to crack and we are trying. Hugs.


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## mama2soren (Feb 12, 2009)

Ooof, that sounds like a frustrating situation.

My son had a similar-ish faze around that age. Except, he would refuse to put his shoes on when it was time to leave the house. He is a pretty independent guy, and he loved having the freedom to walk next to me and explore at the store or wherever we were going on errands. His natural consequence for not putting on his shoes was that when we got to where we were going, he had to ride in the Ergo on my back, or in the stroller, or in the cart. Of course he'd complain about being confined, but I'd remind him that he isn't allowed to walk through the store without shoes on. It eventually sunk in. Would an approach like this be an option for you both? I know the back carry in the Ergo would be a no-go for you now, but perhaps being confined to the cart or stroller would work?

Hang in there!


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I would just not put the shoes on her in the first place. You take the shoes and set them next to you in the front seat of the car, then have her put them on before getting out of the car. Unless you park a block away from home, she can walk to the car in bare feet.

Sometimes if you take the option away, they will make a different choice later on. Some kids just like the control they have, and if you keep giving her the option, she will choose the same option each time. Especially if you engage her every 20 seconds with "don't take your shoes off...mommy doesn't like it when she has to reach your shoes". It's practically begging to be disobeyed. That's like saying "put those in your rooom Okaaaaaay?" The answer is "no" because "Okaaaay?" makes it optional.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skycheattraffic*
> 
> I'm sorry you didn't find my approach helpful, I was genuinely trying to help. I'm a "pick my battles" type mom and this would be a situation I would handle by removing the problem. There were other posters who made suggestions about how to help keep the shoes on (shoe covers/legwarmers, ribbons) and I also remember a post about how this may be an automatic habit that is not done on purpose. We are brainstorming and chiming in, suggesting different approaches that could make travel with a toddler and newborn twins a little easier. *If this was a simple matter of learning how not to do it like other things in the past, I'd imagine she would have stopped by now.* I don't think anyone said you were being ridiculous. It's a tough nut to crack and we are trying. Hugs.


Sorry, this wasnt really directed at you. Im glad for the helpful advice, but really soon, she is not going to be in a spot in the van that is easy for me to get to, and she is going to have to keep her shoes on. Period. But I like your rainboots idea for quick situations.

As to the bolded, while I agree that some things havent worked so far, typically when she is continuously doing something over and over again and wont listen to reason I make a consequence that seems to go best with the behavior and within a week the behavior is no longer happening. I havent done that yet- which is why I feel like she hasnt stopped yet. I would have already made her walk barefoot from the car to the store, but DH asked me to come up with another consequence because he thought it was "too mean".

I'm a pick my battles sort of mama too, and this is one I just cant let go, because it's just not going to work for us to go anywhere if she keeps doing it. Bending over, fighting her to get her shoes on, her telling me she doesnt like her shoes because she didnt get to pick them out, it just cant happen every single day. Its not a matter of her needing to grow up, its a matter of her needing to understand that this is one of the rules of the car that she has to follow- just like how if throws her snacks in the van, she gets no snacks. We don't live in the car- we dont get comfortable enough in the car to start removing all of our clothes. She also knows how to unstrap herself and get out, but she has learned not to do that too. (after not going to playgroup two times when she knew we were on the way there and she unstrapped and stood up in her carseat).

I know that with some guidance and with a consequence that this is something DD is capable of doing. If after a few weeks isnt, then we will put the issue on hold or try something else. But for now, Im likely just going to go with my gut and make her walk while it's still only just a bit nippy. Also, she hates to be carried to the store.She always wants to walk herself, so it may be that I just dont let her walk because she has no shoes and then she has to be in a cart the whole time we are in the store. I do keep a pair of crocs in my purse for this purpose, and I guess I will switch those out for some rainboots. I want her to associate her shoes with the freedom to do things on her own, because that seems to be the most important thing to her right now.

Puddle:

Honestly, while I stand by my statement that often when I see people asking for advice in this forum, they are basically told to let it go, which is why I almost never post here, the real thing that made me grumpy was being told how much easier having a second kid is. This isn't my first go-round having a second baby. I've already had a second baby. I know how much easier it is to nurse, and I know how to "be a mom" to a second child. Twins will be hard, and Im going to be dealing with a lot. I took care of DD when she was 20 months old when Charlie was born, and I know that with TWO kids and with my current life situation this time is going to be even harder than it was last time.


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## puddle (Aug 30, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> Puddle:
> 
> Honestly, while I stand by my statement that often when I see people asking for advice in this forum, they are basically told to let it go, which is why I almost never post here, the real thing that made me grumpy was being told how much easier having a second kid is. This isn't my first go-round having a second baby. I've already had a second baby. I know how much easier it is to nurse, and I know how to "be a mom" to a second child. Twins will be hard, and Im going to be dealing with a lot. I took care of DD when she was 20 months old when Charlie was born, and I know that with TWO kids and with my current life situation this time is going to be even harder than it was last time.


I'm sorry my post offended you! Twins are definitely going to be difficult to adjust to, and I completely acknowledge that. I was just trying to relate my own experience about being stressed before my son was born, and how for me, the problems were not as big as I'd made them out to be when it came down to it. I was not trying to say that you didn't know what to expect or that you were being ridiculous, and I'm sorry for my failure at communication! Sometimes when I jump in, in snatched moments of down time, I don't have time to fully think through the possible interpretations of my words, and I'm sorry for that. That part of my post was about my experience only, and I'm sorry it didn't translate well. I was really worried about how things were going to change when my second was born, since most of my friends had really tough times with that transition, and it ended up not being as rough for me as I anticipated. And while adding twins to your family is going to be an exponentially larger transition, I have no idea what you are anticipating and what your babies will be like and what things you're worried about, so I was just trying to add in that perspective, because some people do tend to overworry (and others don't worry enough), and I have no idea what your tendencies are. Obviously you should disregard any suggestions that don't resonate with you--none of us know you or your child or your family as well as you do.

I hope the transition goes as smoothly as possible for you, and I hope that your family finds a solution to the shoe problem that works and reduces your stress!


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

It's okay  Im just super sensitive to being told how a second child is going to be for me. I get it all the time, when people see me pregnant in public or having a difficulty with DD and then they notice Im pregnant and say something like, "It's so much harder once the second one is born." and I want to scream in their face that I've had a second baby and he just isnt here anymore. But I dont. So, sorry Im being so sensitive, stuff is just really hard and not about to get any easier.


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## puddle (Aug 30, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> It's okay  Im just super sensitive to being told how a second child is going to be for me. I get it all the time, when people see me pregnant in public or having a difficulty with DD and then they notice Im pregnant and say something like, "It's so much harder once the second one is born." and I want to scream in their face that I've had a second baby and he just isnt here anymore. But I dont. So, sorry Im being so sensitive, stuff is just really hard and not about to get any easier.


If there's one time in your life that you're entitled to be super sensitive, mama, this is it.









Sending good thoughts to you and your family.


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## P.J. (May 18, 2010)

Hi there,

I only skimmed the thread but one point which I didn't see and I wanted to remind you of is:

You seem worried about what this situation will be like when there are twin babies added into the mix.
You know that everything is a phase. You know this will pass, no matter what you do or not. You have had kids long enough to have seen these sorts of things play themselves out.

I am not saying you shouldn't do anything; by all means you need to try various solutions and see what works or not.

I just want to remind you that there is every chance she will have moved on to the next thing and be over the shoe removal by the time the twins arrive. So at the very least, you can stop imagining how much harder this is going to get with the twins in the picture. Maybe it won't, because maybe she won't be removing her shoes every time by then. Maybe because one of these ideas will work, or maybe she will just get over it and move on to the next thing. Not only maybe but most likely. You know how much can change in a few months in the life of small kids.

I hear how worried you are about the intense demands of having twins and a young girl. I hope you can find some respite from that.

Best of luck, I hope the shoe thing passes on its own or with your guidance asap!!!!


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## closedaccount15 (Dec 25, 2007)

I skimmed through the posts...my second child was a heck of a lot harder then my first in a different way. Both were different...not easier at all. Both of my kids took their shoes off...I know you say kids don't... but after 9 nieces and nephews on top of my own..I have never seen a kid who hasn't taken shoes off. In fact my youngest I never put them on because while my first did it in silence my second will scream the entire car ride until she vomits because she cant take them off (if I put on shoes and socks she is unable to get off) id rather ride in peace and put on her shoes in the cold (it gets very cold here) then hear her cry because she cant take a shoe off. Don't let her walk barefoot out in public...with cameras in every shopping center someone could see it and decide to report it to cps. Also it doesn't work. My daughter would have thought it so cool to be barefoot and carried around even if it was snowing.

So here is a crazy thing..my first was diagnosed with spd. My second has eczema on her feet and it itches. My first was always taking her coat off and that annoyed me...she also grew out of the shoe phase but takes her pants off and will go outside to play on her underwear because she is always hot. She also always picks at her crotch because she says her underwear bothers her. She is 5 by the way. Treat it like its a physical issue and not something she is doing to annoy you. Don't put shoes on her...let her wear slippers she puts on herself before you get out of the car. My 2 year old is going through it now. If I make a big deal she laughs because it is now a game. If I work with her...then it is over. .maybe she says she doesn't like the shoes she gets to pick out because the ones you pick hurt her feet? I am not trying to be mean or anything but my child still wont fully tell me things bother her and she is 5. Between being a worrier and wanting to please us and having spd she still cant tell us if something is bothering her until we really really dig with lots of questions.


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## JoyLoveandLearning (Dec 23, 2008)

Why not just pre-empt the shoe take-off? When she gets into the car, take them off and place them in the front seat with you. Then you have them at the ready to put back on her at the next stop.

If you make it into a struggle, it will stay a struggle. She will discover that it is a way for her to get attention (even bad attention) from her very busy mom. So, if you are already spending 2 minutes at each stop frustrated and upset, why not spend 2 minutes at every stop happy and engaging with her? What if you putting on her shoes for her were a special time that you shared with her when you told her how much you loved her.

It's true that other kids are able to keep their shoes on. But every kid has some "issue". Be happy she hasn't chosen to grab your attention by spitting or screaming or unbuckling her car seat. And there are probably plenty of things that your child can do that others can't. So just enjoy the things she's good at. This phase will pass and you'll be looking back with a smile years later (and she'll have fond memories of you, instead of sad memories of being made to walk barefoot in the snow).


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

I'm afraid to suggest this because I don't want you to think I'm telling you to just ignore it, but what about giving her more responsibility, and the reward is she can keep her shoes off in the car? So you could say something like, "If you take your shoes off, you need to put them right here [somewhere accessible & convenient], & you need to put them back on before we get to our destination." Then remind her a minute or two before you park that she needs to put her shoes back on. She can be comfy with her shoes off, and you don't have to deal with the hassle of it.

Aside from that, I don't think it's cruel to ask her to walk barefoot, it seems a reasonable consequence to me, but yeah, you might have trouble with stores requiring shoes, or nosy strangers making comments. An alternative consequence might be that if she can't keep her shoes on, she doesn't get to choose her shoes -- she will have to wear a pair that laces up high, double-knotted, & can't be removed.


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## mum2threeboys (Nov 8, 2012)

Hi there, I get your frustration and boy, have I been there ...not necessarily with shoes but other things along the road ...even into teenage hood I have to tell you. You have had enough input from other people obviously - so please ignore this if not helpful. One good thing about input is that if it doesn't fit with you , it is still helping you affirm what does sit right with you. My suggestion would be to approach it from a number of angles...

Eg:

*make keeping her shoes on more fun than throwing them around (make up a song about it, ,we had a song called "do you put your ...(hat).... on your ...(ears...) ?" ....leading up to, "No , we put our (hat) on our head" , or maybe you could make a game of how long can she keep the on )

*if it's realistic change the goal and focus from not throwing shoes around to having shoes on by the time you stop the car. Whatever your goal, have loads of positive reinforcement for it, explain how it helps you and how much you appreciate it

* consider some special shoes that are not for throwing around the car (that she can put on herself). Maybe she doesn't get to wear them unless they stay on her feet or whatever...

*make time in the car really fun with shoes on (or not thrown)

*can you work out what drives her to do this throwing etc? can you provide another/apropriate outlet fro this either in the car or at another time?

*take the emphasis off solely shoes eg are you ready when we stop - shoes, hat, etc, - does doll have shoes and hat on too? It's an exciting stage to be able to get shoes off - make it fun at home and encourage the putting on of clothing too- you might need to be prepared to go out with odd socks etc...

*reward small steps towards the goal , be really encouraging of her efforts

*be patient with her and yourself - it takes us all a while to change patterns

*have a strategy if it doesn't go to plan. If you're sitting in the car and it's snowing and one shoe is in the trunk and you can't find the other, and you're late from something, and you're worrying how on earth will I cope with this when I have three children.... try to look at it from another plane, take a deep breath and see the funny side of it if possible. I have a friend who chooses particular songs to sing/hum to herself at times like that.

*Allow yourself to take the time you need to support your child (and yourself) in this. Don't worry about being late -your relationship with your child is more important and how you deal with these day to day issues is what lasts and contributes to defining your relationship.

*As a mother a long way down the road, I would say be kind to yourself wherever you can (we say 'chill out' in NZ) . In a few years you'll look back and laugh as your remember how stressful these moments were (and there will be plenty more) , but you'll have a different perspective. In my experience each successive child has given me an exponential challenge in 'letting go". All the best for your journey. Well Done for recognising this hotspot and seeking gentle discipline.


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## sahmpaw (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm sorry you didn't get any help from the posts.  My DD does this too. She's rear facing so I thought her rain boots were just too clunky and she wanted them off. I only have her and am not pregnant with twins so it hasn't gotten to me yet. I just put them on and we go on. I am probably too gentle of a parent. At least that's what my other mom friends say. There are other things she does that really tick me off. We all seem to have our own things that tick us off.

One thing that is hard for me to remember when I'm mad at her is if she's not feeling attached to me/connected to me/loved by me she definitely will not cooperate with anything I say. Her behavior usually makes me not want to attach/connect/love her even more. It's a vicious cycle. I have not figured it out yet...how to get my self together and continue to do the job of loving and connecting in the face of her behavior. Because unfortunately it's our job to connect/attach to our kids. We can't put that responsibility on them. I also think my daughter just simply hasn't developed the receptive listening skills that other kids her age seem to have developed (she's 32 months). A lot of my questions she doesn't seem to "get". It is quite frustrating and I do empathize with you!! This is really really tough work we are doing.


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## crayfishgirl (May 26, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skycheattraffic*
> 
> I would just go with rain boots. Strap her in, whip them off in a second and put them in a cup holder up front. At the destination, slip them on in two seconds and then het her out. Since she is a smart girl, the consequence of only being able to wear the boots instead of the pretty shoes she likes should help. If she REALLY wants to put them on herself then the rain boots again are super quick. Since you take them, you won't have to hunt for them. I know it's more work than having her keep them on but it's less work than reminding her and fighting with her.


This.

I've not read the entire thread, but my daughter hates shoes and a typical Saturday of errands would easily be an hour longer than necessary with putting shoes back on (she has to do it herself). Also, my daughter would not be phased by needing to walk barefoot. We don't have snow, but cold and rain, and I honestly don't think it would bother her one bit. Rainboots to the rescue!


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## supapfunk (Jun 14, 2006)

Duct tape! 

(kidding! don't flame me)

I don't have much advice other than GOOD LUCK!


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## sassyfirechick (Jan 21, 2012)

Does she weight enough to go front facing? My DD went front facing at 9 or 10mos when she hit 22lbs bc it was too crammed in our car to have her rear facing, and she was beginning to wail on even short car rides when normally she loved the car. Now she can see me and interact more with me and not feel secluded. I also have an activity panel on the seat with flash cards and things that hang for her to play with otherwise she too would have her shoes off.


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## Greenlea (Apr 21, 2010)

What about taking her shoes off for her once she's in the carseat. That way at least you know where they are and you can put them back on once you get to where you're going.


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## Boot (Jan 22, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sassyfirechick*
> 
> Does she weight enough to go front facing? My DD went front facing at 9 or 10mos when she hit 22lbs bc it was too crammed in our car to have her rear facing, and she was beginning to wail on even short car rides when normally she loved the car. Now she can see me and interact more with me and not feel secluded. I also have an activity panel on the seat with flash cards and things that hang for her to play with otherwise she too would have her shoes off.


O.T. but I feel this should be addressed. I know the OP knows this, but for anyone else reading this thread, it is MUCH safer to keep your toddler rear facing beyond the legal minimum of 1 year. These days some car seats can rear face to 45 pounds. I just turned my 2 3/4 year old as she has maxed out her seat but I would have kept her rear facing to 3 if I could.

For anyone interested there are lots of ladies hanging out in the Family Safety forum who are car seat techs. Also, check out YouTube for crash tests of rear facing v. forward facing. It's quite an eye opener.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boot*
> 
> O.T. but I feel this should be addressed. I know the OP knows this, but for anyone else reading this thread, it is MUCH safer to keep your toddler rear facing beyond the legal minimum of 1 year. These days some car seats can rear face to 45 pounds. I just turned my 2 3/4 year old as she has maxed out her seat but I would have kept her rear facing to 3 if I could.
> For anyone interested there are lots of ladies hanging out in the Family Safety forum who are car seat techs. Also, check out YouTube for crash tests of rear facing v. forward facing. It's quite an eye opener.


Right.

DD will be RF until she's probably 4 years old. She weights 24 lbs, and is only 34 inches tall. Not turning around any time soon


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## babydanielsmom (Jan 18, 2008)

I can't remember what it is called but Stride Rite makes this plastic thing that you can tuck the shoe strings into that won't let you LO pull the strings/shoes off. I got them in our local Stride Rite store for our Ds2 ...it saved my sanity.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

When you turn them around forward-facing they can throw their shoes at your head while you're driving (ask me how I know!)


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## LaughingHyena (May 4, 2004)

I know how frustrating it is, I need a quick trip in the car and it ends up twice as long because we have to stop at the other end and put DSs shoes back on!

Quote:



> I know that with some guidance and with a consequence that this is something DD is capable of doing. If after a few weeks isnt, then we will put the issue on hold or try something else. But for now, Im likely just going to go with my gut and make her walk while it's still only just a bit nippy. Also, she hates to be carried to the store.She always wants to walk herself, so it may be that I just dont let her walk because she has no shoes and then she has to be in a cart the whole time we are in the store. I do keep a pair of crocs in my purse for this purpose, and I guess I will switch those out for some rainboots. I want her to associate her shoes with the freedom to do things on her own, because that seems to be the most important thing to her right now.


To some extent this is what we did, if DS did not keep his shoes on I would stick him in the buggy rather than put his shoes back on. He was old enough not to like it and I think it did have an effect. There were plenty of times when he'd end up asleep in the buggy making me feel at least part of the issue was things being 10X worse when he was tired.

We did make sure to try and include some trips to places he wanted to go (playground, library etc) to try and emphasise the point no shoes = no fun. The weekly shopping trip didn't quite do that for him :lol


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## closedaccount15 (Dec 25, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> When you turn them around forward-facing they can throw their shoes at your head while you're driving (ask me how I know!)


Ah..see we have learned the heavier the shoe the better she can chuck them! We have been injured by sneakers, but little slip on leather slides made for pre walkers only make it to past her feet. The socks end up in the back because she pulls them off with such force they flip over the carseat.


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## Okapi (Jul 11, 2008)

What kind of shoes is she wearing? My older DD's feet get very hot in shoes (she's about to turn 5 - it's 40 degrees outside in the mornings now and she still mostly picks her froggy sandals to wear, and will go barefoot outside quite happily if we are just playing outside) & I had this struggle when she was younger, before she could/would articulate what was wrong. Especially when she was still rear-facing, she would get very warm in her seat - even though I was often wearing my coat & keeping the car cold. Her shoes were the one thing she could kick off for some relief. Maybe you could try letting her wear sandals for a few rides & see if that helps? DD will still kick off her shoes if she's wearing sneakers or boots, but she tends to keep on anything light. Like other posters said, if she wants to wear shoes I know will be too warm for her, I just let her go barefoot until we reach our destination, though I certainly understand that it won't work for everyone!


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## sassyfirechick (Jan 21, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> Right.
> 
> DD will be RF until she's probably 4 years old. She weights 24 lbs, and is only 34 inches tall. Not turning around any time soon


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boot*
> 
> O.T. but I feel this should be addressed. I know the OP knows this, but for anyone else reading this thread, it is MUCH safer to keep your toddler rear facing beyond the legal minimum of 1 year. These days some car seats can rear face to 45 pounds. I just turned my 2 3/4 year old as she has maxed out her seat but I would have kept her rear facing to 3 if I could.
> For anyone interested there are lots of ladies hanging out in the Family Safety forum who are car seat techs. Also, check out YouTube for crash tests of rear facing v. forward facing. It's quite an eye opener.


Yes well, I survived childhood without rearfacing at that age, not to mention I was out a carseat completely at 2 with no seatbelt - obv I'm still alive today. My DH is a firefighter, as was I, there are far greater things to worry about than what direction the carseat faces. Rear facing at 4 is a bit extreme IMO considerring they ride a school bus with no seat belt you aren't exactly setting them up to succeed at proper car ettiquette going from a car seat to a bus.


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## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

yeah, and we had lead in our blinds and lead paint on our toys and chewed them and had drop-down cribs and i rode in my mom's lap in the car and ate solids at 2 weeks! i am just fine!


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## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

i am on kid #4 and there is still no answer to how to keep shoes on LOL they just outgrow it, and you plan for it until they stop.

try to keep your vehicle clean enough so the shoes won't get lost once you are where you are going!


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## crayfishgirl (May 26, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sassyfirechick*
> 
> Yes well, I survived childhood without rearfacing at that age, not to mention I was out a carseat completely at 2 with no seatbelt - obv I'm still alive today. My DH is a firefighter, as was I, there are far greater things to worry about than what direction the carseat faces. Rear facing at 4 is a bit extreme IMO considerring they ride a school bus with no seat belt you aren't exactly setting them up to succeed at proper car ettiquette going from a car seat to a bus.


We were treated to less-than-safe car rides as children too, and while I survived, there are a lot of children not so lucky. There are some sobering statistics on which children survive car accidents and which don't or have very serious injuries. Rear facing for as long as possible is safer...its not clear to me why you wouldn't do everything you can to keep your kids safe. As for setting them up for proper car etiquette? So not concerned about it!


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## skycheattraffic (Apr 16, 2012)

I also didn't ride in a carseat as a toddler. Mind you that was decades ago with much different amount of traffic and I wasn't in the car for 2 hours each day (not that uncommon these days). My parents weren't in the same situation that I am and didn't have the same information and resources that I do. They did their absolute best to keep me as safe as possible to the best of their knowledge. That's all I am doing for my child and wouldnt feel right doing anything less. It doesn't mean that I don't let her challenge herself or take risks, it just means I want to protect her in the case of a vehicle accident. It the last three years I was in two car accidents but not at fault for either. A moving truck rear ended me on the highway when its brakes failed and caused $3000 damage and shook me up pretty badly. An SUV sideswiped me when i was pregnant because the driver didn't check her blind spot before changing lanes. Baby and I were ok but my car was a write off. If I had my toddler with me and she got hurt while I KNEW rear facing was the safer option, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself. Why is that coddling or babying?!


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## VocalMinority (Apr 8, 2009)

This may not be what you want to hear, but I think sometimes it's best to adjust to toddlers as they are, rather than hoping they'll be different. My twins would not keep their shoes on in the car, when they were toddlers. So, I only bothered putting them on when they were getting out to go somewhere. Then again, I wasn't pregnant. So, I would suggest rubber boots. They're easy for a kid to slip on by themselves. They're cute. You can buy liners to make them warm for winter. I would not leave them on during the drive, so your kiddo doesn't have fun throwing them around the car. Get her to the car. Slip off the boots and keep them by you during the drive. Make her put them on before she gets out. Don't let her think it's a game, let her think if she doesn't hurry up you might just turn around and leave her. Let it be her responsibility to keep up with you. When she starts complaining about wanting to wear other shoes, test her out to see if she'll keep them on. If not, back to boots until she's "grown up" enough to wear shoes in the car!


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Well, this isnt really what this thread is about, but I cant not address the misinformation here. Firefighters do not equal car seat regulation authorities. Some of them are CPSTs, but that doesnt mean that they are keeping current and knowledgeable about the most up to date recommendations.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sassyfirechick*
> 
> Yes well, I survived childhood without rearfacing at that age, not to mention I was out a carseat completely at 2 with no seatbelt - obv I'm still alive today. My DH is a firefighter, as was I, there are far greater things to worry about than what direction the carseat faces. Rear facing at 4 is a bit extreme IMO considerring they ride a school bus with no seat belt you aren't exactly setting them up to succeed at proper car ettiquette going from a car seat to a bus.


Well, Im glad you survived- but not all kids do. Let's face it, car accidents account for way more childhood deaths than fires. No offense, but I value the AAP recommendations over what the fire fighters tell me. Considering that the child death rate has decline by 41% over the past 25 years, so personally I think new regulations are worth taking a look at. The AAP sites a study stating that children under 4 are 75% less likely to die in an automobile accident if they are rear facing.

You won't find a lot of support for telling people not to RF their child on MDC. Check out the Family Safety forum, where you can see numerous CPSTs who will attest to the fact that it is safest to RF a child until the car seat weight and height recommendations require that they be turned around. For us, that is 40 lbs. My daughter is tiny for her age, so she will likely be 4 when she gets turned.

Internal decapitation front facing - google it.


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## ~adorkable~ (Nov 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> Gentle discipline does not always equal redefining what is okay for you and your family just to not make your child have to change her behavior.


i so soo agree with this statement.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *supapfunk*
> 
> Duct tape!


i was thinking this too, but seriously, is there something you can do the shoes that makes them harder to take off? or maybe find a pair that lace real good and tell her she has to always wear them unless she can keep her other shoes on, that every time she takes off the shoes she picked out, that hte other plain shoes will be the ones you use when you have to put something back on, seems like it may work if she really loves her pretty shoes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sassyfirechick*
> 
> Does she weight enough to go front facing? My DD went front facing at 9 or 10mos when she hit 22lbs bc it was too crammed in our car to have her rear facing, and she was beginning to wail on even short car rides when normally she loved the car. Now she can see me and interact more with me and not feel secluded. I also have an activity panel on the seat with flash cards and things that hang for her to play with otherwise she too would have her shoes off.


worst advice ever and illegal in most all states

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> DD will be RF until she's probably 4 years old. She weights 24 lbs, and is only 34 inches tall. Not turning around any time soon


great news

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sassyfirechick*
> Yes well, I survived childhood without rearfacing at that age, not to mention I was out a carseat completely at 2 with no seatbelt - obv I'm still alive today. My DH is a firefighter, as was I, there are far greater things to worry about than what direction the carseat faces. Rear facing at 4 is a bit extreme IMO considerring they ride a school bus with no seat belt you aren't exactly setting them up to succeed at proper car ettiquette going from a car seat to a bus.


im going to file this with the folks that tell me that they CIO or spank and feed choco super frosty bombs and their kids are fine too!,

in the bad, short sighted, advice bin.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> Internal decapitation front facing - google it.












my boy is just hititng the shoe fiddling stage, so im right there with you, not sure what approach will be best on him yet, let me know what you figure out.

and i just ordered seats that have 50lb rear facing limits, year my kids will turn sometime near 5 and no i dont think its cray in any way, i have read the studies and unlike some super rare things that we do all kinds of things to avoid, car crashes are very likely, i have personally been in two that would have probably killed a forward facing baby, its a no brainer and little to no down side.


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## sassyfirechick (Jan 21, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> Well, this isnt really what this thread is about, but I cant not address the misinformation here. Firefighters do not equal car seat regulation authorities. Some of them are CPSTs, but that doesnt mean that they are keeping current and knowledgeable about the most up to date recommendations.
> 
> ...


It's not misinformation. We've both seen firsthand. I wasn't making a comparisson to death by car vs death by fire - firefighters do more than just put out fires FYI. I have no desire to read through the family safety forum as I'm a pretty common sense person and I don't fall into the media hype about everyday things that get blown out of proportion. In this day and age you're more likely to die from cancer than in a car accident. I pick my battles for my family's health - it's far more important to me that we avoid vaccines, unnecessary use of antibiotics, chemicals cleaners and lawn products...than to keep my child rear facing beyond the minimum requirement. So my initial comment was completely valid regarding seat direction and giving your LO something to look at in order to keep her shoes on. As for the googling, thanks but no thanks, seen far more firsthand that you could ever search on google and don't care to spend my spare time staring at injured kids, I prefer positive videos.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crayfishgirl*
> 
> We were treated to less-than-safe car rides as children too, and while I survived, there are a lot of children not so lucky. There are some sobering statistics on which children survive car accidents and which don't or have very serious injuries. Rear facing for as long as possible is safer...its not clear to me why you wouldn't do everything you can to keep your kids safe. As for setting them up for proper car etiquette? So not concerned about it!


I do keep my daughter safe - I don't vaccinate after having poor reactions, we eat organic and don't use chemicals - things that have an immediate impact on her health and safety. My car and her seat are plenty safe the way they are set up.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Adorkable~*
> 
> *worst advice ever and illegal in most all states*
> 
> ...


Illegal? I've read through the majority of the state laws, and nowhere do I see is as illegal to have a child over 1yr OR over 20lbs to be front facing so long as it is an appropriate restraint device. My DD is in a seat that CAN rear face to 30 or 40lbs and she can ride front facing to 65lbs as per our state law for weight, but in our vehicle it just doesn't fit well rear facing and she's safer front facing than at the improper angle rear facing.

I don't see it as bad or short sided - it is a viable answer to a problem. (And even though it may only be 'indirectly' directed at me, I don't believe in CIO, spanking, and my DD has never tasted sugar.)


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sassyfirechick*
> 
> Illegal? I've read through the majority of the state laws, and nowhere do I see is as illegal to have a child over 1yr OR over 20lbs to be front facing so long as it is an appropriate restraint device.


The law is usually 1year AND 20lbs... not whichever comes first. And the AAP now recommends rear-facing 'til at least age 2. This is not media hype. Car accidents are considered to be the leading cause of fatal injuries in children -- they kill more than drowning, poisoning, burns, falls, etc.

I know you're not interested in hearing this but I want to share it, should anyone else stumble across your post & incorrectly assume it's safe to FF whenever you want. http://www.rearfacing.co.uk/facts.php


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

The law here

is one year AND 20 lbs. And regardless of the law, it says it right on the side of most car seats .

I called it misinformation because I want to make sure that other readers dont take your extremely dangerous advice. 9-10 months old is NOT okay to turn a kid front facing, and I dont care how much they weigh. It's hilarious to me that you dont eat chemicals and you dont vax, but you refuse to abide by car safety policies. That's kind of like my friends who wont use anything but vinegar to clean, but still smoke cigarettes. One safety doesnt cancel out another.

Adorkable, so jealous of those seats


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## sassyfirechick (Jan 21, 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama* 

The law here

is one year AND 20 lbs. And regardless of the law, it says it right on the side of most car seats .

I called it misinformation because I want to make sure that other readers dont take your extremely dangerous advice. 9-10 months old is NOT okay to turn a kid front facing, and I dont care how much they weigh. It's hilarious to me that you dont eat chemicals and you dont vax, but you refuse to abide by car safety policies. That's kind of like my friends who wont use anything but vinegar to clean, but still smoke cigarettes. One safety doesnt cancel out another.

Adorkable, so jealous of those seats 

I'm not looking to cancel out anything. You however have gone above and beyond to insult every poster who does not offer an answer to your liking so perhaps you really didn't want advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 

The law is usually 1year AND 20lbs... not whichever comes first. And the AAP now recommends rear-facing 'til at least age 2. This is not media hype. Car accidents are considered to be the leading cause of fatal injuries in children -- they kill more than drowning, poisoning, burns, falls, etc.

Not here, the law state 'OR', so no, I'm not picking and chosing like a buffet option. And since clearly no one is reading my entire post, ie the main reasoning being the backseat of my vehicles does not accomodate rear facing at the "appropriate angle" therefore making it SAFER for my child to ride front facing.


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## LiLStar (Jul 7, 2006)

I think extended rearfacing IS a very common sense thing. Its an insurance policy, and has very little, if any draw back. And in the event that there's a serious accident, which can happen to anyone, my kids have a much higher chance of coming out alive. This is good common sense emergency preparedness. None of my kids have ever been unhappy rearfacing. I don't understand "picking battles" in this regard. The term picking your battles usually means that if you enforce too many rules with your kids they're more likely to rebel and wear you down with power struggles.. so maybe you let them have a little soda at the restaurant that you wouldn't allow at home. Thats picking battles. I don't vaccinate, use lawn chemicals, unnecessary abx, or chemical filled cleaners either. Those aren't battles at all! Those are very easy choices of which products to buy/not buy and what to accept and not accept at the dr's office. Its not as if after all that I need to "let something slide". Leaving a car seat in the rearfacing position is not extra day to day work. It takes no extra energy/effort. This is not a battle, it is a very simple choice.

Anyway, I had an idea for the OP. She seems like she might be slightly motivated by and enjoy her nice, pretty shoes. What if you bought her an ugly pair thats no fun, but extremely easy on? (solid black rain boots?) Keep those in the front seat. If she has her pretty shoes on at the destination, she gets to wear them. If she takes them off, well, the consequence of that is you're going to put on the shoes that are easiest to put on.. and they just aren't very fun to wear.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sassyfirechick*
> 
> I'm not looking to cancel out anything. *You however have gone above and beyond to insult every poster who does not offer an answer to your liking so perhaps you really didn't want advice. *
> 
> Not here, the law state 'OR', so no, I'm not picking and chosing like a buffet option. And since clearly no one is reading my entire post, ie the main reasoning being the backseat of my vehicles does not accomodate rear facing at the "appropriate angle" therefore making it SAFER for my child to ride front facing.


No, in fact, I havent. I havent "insulted" anyone by saying that I disagree and that I know my child can do something different. I even apologized when I was snappy.

Honestly, I find that when someone asks a question about how to discipline their child on an issue and they are told that basically, they need to stop expecting their kid to be able to do something, and not discipline at all, it's a bit insulting. I didnt ask for opinions on why I shouldnt care that she is doing it, I asked for opinions on what actions I could take to keep her shoes on.

Regardless of why you turned your child around, the point I was trying to make was that you shouldnt go around saying "Well, i lived and I wasnt rear facing" because that kind of comment isnt helpful to readers who may not know why RF is so much safer than FF.

On a side note, as an update from the mini van:

DD has been on a "no shoes off in the car" policy for 5 days now. I have kept a spare pair of crocs in my purse to slip on her if I have to. The first time she took her shoes off, she had to walk from the car into my moms house barefoot. She was not a happy camper about that. After we left my mom's we went to Target, and she told me she wasnt going to take her shoes off the whole way. She left them on. Then, when we left Target she immediately took them off so when we got to the grocery she had to ride in the cart because she didnt have any shoes on. Also, when we went to the bathroom, I had to pick her up out of the cart and put her directly on the potty because the bathroom floor was dirty and she had no shoes. Again, not a happy camper. We put her shoes on right before leaving the store so that she could walk to the car, and she didnt take them off.

That was day one. Since day one, she has only taken them off one time and it was when DH took her somewhere on day 3. He didnt let her walk and made her ride in the sling (she really wanted to walk). When they got back in the car, she said, "I cant take my shoes off in the van OR in your truck?" When we get in the van, I remind her not to take them off, and she usually says something like, "So I can walk by myself?" or "Cause my feet will get cold on the sidewalk?"

So, so far so good. Ill make sure to keep it updated. Taking away her independence is seeming to be the key factor here. This girl really wants to walk everywhere!


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

So glad to hear you seem to have found a solution!


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## ~adorkable~ (Nov 7, 2007)

i think it sounds like you found a great cause and effect for her to learn and understand, that seems like the holy grail of parenting, i will keep this logged in my mind for when it comes up for us.


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## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

Thats great! I will remember this for when I need it, pretty soon lol


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I was wondering how a thread about toddlers taking their shoes off in the car could get so many responses! But now I get it.









I was going to say that your options are to get harder to remove shoes, put her shoes on when you get somewhere instead of before she goes in the car, or just deal the best you can with her shoes off and see if things improve. LOL. I don't consider dealing with it to be a punishment, unless you're browbeating her over it or approaching it in a shaming way or something. Sometimes putting her in a cart is just going to be easier than putting shoes on. One of mine was a shoe chucker and it gets crazy if you're on an errand with like 5 stops. It ends up taking a ton more time if you're searching for shoes and socks and then putting them on over and over. I finally just started carrying mine (I was not pregnant) and putting her in the cart when she did it, not intended as punishment but simply to save time and my sanity. And yeah she got tired of that and started keeping her shoes on. She wanted to be a big girl and do everything All By Her Self. (Two words intentional - that's how she said it.) Luckily this was in the summer as I live in a cold climate. I would have had to plan errands for when she could stay home with her dad otherwise I think, and she wouldn't have liked that either. They aren't going to be happy all the time. Life happens and sometimes you just have to deal with things the best you can.

Anyway, I'm glad everything is going well.


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## mumkimum (Nov 14, 2006)

Yay for her (and you too). Sound like you knew what would work out best for her in the first place, actually.


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