# What age were you (the parent) potty trained??



## AndreaOlson (Apr 8, 2011)

Things have changed and I'm researching why. I am so curious and hope to find some good answers here. The statistics these days are crazy (avg age in US is currently 36 months). Wondering if some of you mamas and papas can answer:

--When were YOU potty trained? - you can click the poll on this post to answer this one....

And for anyone who'd like to post stories and answers on these two:

--When were your grandparents potty trained? Or when did they train their kids (your parents)?

--when are you planning to (or did you) potty train your toddler?

If your parents or grandparents want to chime in, I'd love to know when all this has happened. All the research out there is muddied by diaper companies and other creepy propaganda...so I'm looking to our community for some answers!

Thanks so much xxoo andrea


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## pranava (Aug 11, 2007)

I EC'ed my son and we were very close to fully potty trained at 15/16 months. Returning to work and putting DS in daycare totally derailed that. I don't think it's all about disposable diapers. Daycare and fast paced hectic lives have a lot to do with potty training at an older age. Inconsistency is just too hard for toddlers.


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## Perdita_in_Ontario (Feb 7, 2007)

My mother says that my brother and I were toilet trained by 18 and 15 months (I was a bit older because she waited for the summer). We were in cloth nappies in the 70s.

My daughter was over 3 when we moved to underwear - granted she had NO accidents - I was pretty accident-averse so we waited until she was almost trained before even moving to training pants.

We've been ECing my son since 4 months and at 22 months, he's in training pants at home and is often dry when out. I think if I had been more consistent he could be completely out of training pants by now... but I'm not a consistent person! I'm hoping to have him in the Gerber-style training pants by the new year.

I think there's a lot of things at play - certainly disposable diapers make things easier - no real incentive to move them out of nappies quickly. And yes, daycare - DD was dry at home far before at daycare, whereas I'm home with DS and more able to work with him. And we've been told that children are simply not able to control themselves before about 3, which as any ECer (and many current grandparent) knows, just ain't so.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

I don't know the exact age but my siblings & I were all approx. 2-3 years old when we potty-trained. I guess a lot of my same-age relatives trained much sooner (18mos or so??) but we were not ready or something. My DS was 2.5 when he was fully ready (and did a bit of EC and also tried early PT'ing but he just was NOT ready sooner than that) and most of his friends were in the 2.5yo range as well -- we have one friend that PT'ed before 2 but she has so many accidents that I don't really think of her as PT'ed... and a few friends that EC'ed but I think there is a big difference between a child who's EC'ing and a child that's "potty-trained" and it seems to me that they hit the "potty-trained" age around that 18-30mos range. Just kind of an opinion though, maybe they would consider them trained sooner...

Now I'm curious what people's definitions of "potty-trained" are, because I think that really affects the responses.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

My sister and I are 24 months apart and I was PLed before she was born. We have no idea about DH, we think it was later though. My oldest was using the potty by 14 months or so but refused to use it unless it was on her terms. That went on until she was exactly 2.5y old and then one day she decided to use it 100% of the time, never once had an accident. I started with DD2 right after she turned 2, she wasn't ready, but then 2 months later she wanted to and was Pled. She did have accidents here and there for a while, and today at age 5, she still has to wear a diaper at night. My first son is 2.5 and ZERO interest in the potty. He chases me around the house with a diaper if I leave one off of him. Yep, it is going to be a while.


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## Erin77 (Aug 4, 2010)

My mother potty trained me and my brother by 18 months in rural bush Alaska with no running water. I actually remember her teaching my brother to go poop in a 5 gallon bucket of seawater on our troller (boat)! Ha, that's hard core. Of course, she was handwashing cloth diapers, so I guess the motivation was pretty strong. For us, we've been doing a "Diaper Free by Three" style thing, where my 15 month old sits on the pot a few times a day and I take him in if he needs to poop. He does it pretty happily and has since he was 6 months old, but he's nowhere near training. He is a really young baby, though- he still crawls and doesn't say much, much more baby than toddler. I will be happy if he's trained around two and a half.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

I was trained by 15 months, both of mine by 15 months- my grandmother (94) had both hers trained 12 to 15 - when they could walk- according to her it was the norm for her generation as for herself and her family- once they could walk and freezing stiff diapers hand washed added to the mix, my grandmother did start what we now call EC a bit prior to walking and fully trained at walking age

ETA I have a baby care book from the early 1900's and it mentions ECing from birth


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## Blessed1 (Apr 12, 2010)

My mom said she had all of us (3 girls) potty trained by 18months. It took her no more than 3 days to have us fully trained. She said that she made it a point to completely clear her schedule and watch us like a hawk...no going out, no phone calls, no company over. She said it was difficult to not get distracted with household duties, but she was committed to potty training.

All three of us were cloth diapered from birth.

My daughter is approaching 18months and my mom has already begun to encourage me to give potty training a shot. My little one loves to sit on the potty like mommy and she loves throwing pieces of toilet paper in the toilet...lol but no official potty training here just yet.


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

My mother says I potty trained myself right when I turned 3. I was in disposable diapers from birth.

I don't really give much credence to what the previous generation says they did with their children, as the prevailing opinions at the time were pro-CIO, parent-centric, etc. My son wasn't out of diapers until he was 4. I had no interest in EC, and he had no interest in potty training for a very long time. I'm confident that my second will be out of diapers by age 3 based on her interest now, but I don't see my son's delay in potty training as a failure on my part, regardless of how anyone on the internet sees it.


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## MadiMamacita (Jan 29, 2006)

I was under 2. DH was under 2. DS was 2.5 before he was consistantly day-dry. at almost 3 he is still not night-dry.

not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, as I just skimmed the posts, but I think a lot of it has to do with Pull Ups.

Check this out:
http://web.maths.unsw.edu.au/~jim/annachristierpt10.pdf
It is from Australia, but I think it is pretty relevant.


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## SunRise (Apr 18, 2005)

I was born in 1966 and my guess is I was using the potty around age 2, give or take a few months.

My son was born in 2002 and he was fully potty using (day and night) by 2.5yrs.

My daughter, born in 2010, is 21 months and we are casually working on it. We mostly talk about it, there is a potty and a child toilet seat for her to get accustomed to, but mostly she is not ready and Im not forcing anything.


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## coldandsleepy (Aug 5, 2008)

I was done "by 18 months" according to my mom. She also claims that I learned myself and credits that to the fact that I have two older siblings. (The oldest wasn't TT'd until he was over 3, but he had other developmental problems. My sister was done between 2 and 2 1/2.)

We have just started working on it actively with my son who is a little over 2. I think we should have started earlier-- he showed signs of readiness several months ago-- but my husband isn't particularly gung ho about it, we both work FT, and I've been exhausted from pregnancy. Oh well. He's made big progress over the last two weekends (he's in preschool & diapers during the week) so I feel pretty confident we're gonna get there eventually.


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## Shannie77 (Jan 16, 2007)

My mom started when I was 2 and it did not go well. It was months before I was trained. With my three younger sisters she waited until they were 2.5 and they all potty learned in a week or two.

DD1 was eced from 6 months and was basically accident free by 13 months. By 18 months she was 100% done.

DD2 has not been eced and we are trying to get a catch or two each day. She is 18 months.


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## dealic (Feb 25, 2007)

I was 18 months and it took 1 day. It was summer, and I had a fever. I didn't want to wear any clothes, including the diaper. My mom told me "fine, you can take it off as long as you use your potty." So I did, from then on. But I was an odd child.

My sisters were 2 or 3 I think, and I know my youngest sister wouldn't poop on a toilet until 4 or 5. She would come ask for a diaper, then poop behind the bathroom door, standing up.

We used disposable diapers. My mom was an attachment parent though she's never heard the term. She is my role model for mothering.

My baby is still in my belly and I have no idea when she will learn








She will be in cloth. Prefolds is the plan, but we will see how I do with that.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

I think maybe parents "trained" their toddlers younger, but also in some cases might have used extreme reward and even punishment, criticism and shaming. While I don't have any hard data to prove this, and I am not saying that that is what happened to people on this board, I am just drawing conclusions based on the widespread use of these tactics to "discipline" children in the past... This is mainly in western cultures...

but then I am just totally guessing with this-- I have no hard data to back it up. But just as children were "punished" for being left handed, etc. I think there might have been some of that going on....


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> I think maybe parents "trained" their toddlers younger, but also in some cases might have used extreme reward and even punishment, criticism and shaming. While I don't have any hard data to prove this, and I am not saying that that is what happened to people on this board, I am just drawing conclusions based on the widespread use of these tactics to "discipline" children in the past... This is mainly in western cultures...
> 
> but then I am just totally guessing with this-- I have no hard data to back it up. But just as children were "punished" for being left handed, etc. I think there might have been some of that going on....


I think you extremely misguided, not just my opinion but from a historical, cultural and practical point of view-I find this very sad to see.

I wish for once I could see someone post rational and natural reason for delaying (keeping diapered) when it is a normal human bodily function and how by doing so (for what is now a prolonged use) if beneficial.


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## kayabrink (Apr 19, 2005)

My feeling is that earlier potty training relies on adults being consistently aware of the child's needs in a way that is no longer feasable for all families nowadays. To pt a young child ( and I have done it twice and seen it done many times over with NO shaming or punishment) you need to anticipate the baby/toddler's potty needs for a few months, until they get the idea. even then, they need consistencey and absolute dedication to pee. What I mean by that is, no matter what you are doing and where you are, if they ask to pee you must immediately respond. That is more difficult in this day in age with so many things vying for our attention.

I introduced the potty at 12 months- after waking/ when kids were good tempered...Both my kids were out of diapers at 15 months. I was still largely responsible for taking them to the potty until about 18 months. DD (25 months) is 100 percent trained- ok, 90 because I still wipe poops but she does all the rest: goes to potty, pulls down pants, pees, wipes, (tries to empty potty to my dismay), flushes. And all of the nieces and nephews (and they are numerous) on dh's side were trained thus. The latest kid in dipes was 2.5. But ALL these kids had one or two, consistend caregivers looking after them. Daycare can't do that with the child/adult ratio, it's not feasable or fair to expect it of the kids or caregivers. Plus, look how long it took to pt my kids: six, eight months, you could argue a year. Wait til a kid is three, take of dipe, it can happen in one weekend.

So this really long rant to say I think it's based on multiple societal factors including but not limited to:

number and types of caregivers and childcare settings, belief system of entourage, social environment at large, method of training (I personally think you have to take of the dipe and accept that pee happens a few... or lot... of times), childs receptive vocabulary and ability to indicate needs (by gestures, signs, or verbally)...

SO, what age were we potty trained, but also what other variables came into play for us?

I was pt around 2 with two working parents, but I always cared for by parents (worked different shifts). My parents were both on the extreme end of laid back, and I wore disposables.


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## CherryBombMama (Jan 25, 2010)

according to my mom, days after i turned two, i told her i needed to use the potty (apparently she had been talking to me about it and letting me see her use the toilet) went, and never needed to wear diapers again. she swears it. that was 1989. i was in cloth diapers part time (they bought disposables whenever money was available.)

ds1 has been mostly potty trained since ... around 2. but he is just learning to tell me he has to go at 2.5. for the majority of the time i take him every 2-3 hours. he was a cloth diaper baby.

ds2 is 16m, cloth diapered, and stops to inform me when he has peed in his diaper. but he wants nothing to do with sitting on the potty, so im not going there just yet. i just keep up the conversation, "oh you peed! alright! lets go change you. soon you can pee on the potty..." and lots of pee talk with my toddler so hopefully that creates a light bulb effect with the baby. kinda like, "i pee in my diaper, gil pees on the potty, i want to pee on the potty!" hopefully lol!


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## mommy212 (Mar 2, 2010)

My mom was not potty-trained until late (3 1/2) either. Mama says she wanted to make sure she was old enough to just start using the potty without messes or backtracking or anything. I was sort of late because according to my mom, I didn't want to stop playing long enough to go to the bathroom


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## jess in hawaii (Oct 13, 2011)

My eldest self-trained at 22 months, my next absolutely knew how and could at 15 months but refused to with any regularity until 3 years (he really just didn't care), my other two were right around 2 years or so, not yet 2 1/2. According to my mother, I was 2.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kayabrink*
> 
> My feeling is that earlier potty training relies on adults being consistently aware of the child's needs in a way that is no longer feasable for all families nowadays. To pt a young child ( and I have done it twice and seen it done many times over with NO shaming or punishment) you need to anticipate the baby/toddler's potty needs for a few months, until they get the idea. even then, they need consistencey and absolute dedication to pee. What I mean by that is, no matter what you are doing and where you are, if they ask to pee you must immediately respond. That is more difficult in this day in age with so many things vying for our attention.


I think this is so true. My friend with a young 2yo PT'ed around 20mos I think??? But she has to constantly bring her DD to the potty.... and she has to RUN... if she doesn't run fast enough, there are accidents. If she doesn't stay in tune with her DD 100% of the time, there are accidents. She needs to bring 10 changes of clothes wherever she goes. It seems to take a HUGE commitment on her part & I don't think most parents nowadays have the time/energy/focus/ability to do that.

PT'ing my 2.5yo seems like it was much easier than that (and I tried earlier with him, there was definitely some kind of physical change that made it easier right around 2.5). There is no running to the potty... when he needs to go, we have a couple of minutes to find a bathroom, or pull off the road to a store with a restroom, or let him finish what he's doing. He only has to go once every couple of hours, not several times an hour like he used to. If I'm not paying close attention, he'll still come up & tell me that he needs to go. He has some emotional issues/delays and doesn't always WANT to use the potty, but physiologically he's got it down. I noticed similar physical control with some of his friends around his age. So I do think many parents will have an easier time waiting 'til age 2-3 (though I know there are "windows of opportunity" for some kids and for them, waiting that long may make it harder) and I'm sure some kids do reach physical readiness earlier than 2....


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> I think you extremely misguided, not just my opinion but from a historical, cultural and practical point of view-I find this very sad to see.
> 
> I wish for once I could see someone post rational and natural reason for delaying (keeping diapered) when it is a normal human bodily function and how by doing so (for what is now a prolonged use) if beneficial.


Hi,

I was trying to make it clear that I wasn't speaking about cultures that have a long standing practices of not really using diapers in the first place, i.e. largely non-western cultures. Sorry, I didn't have a lot of time to write that I don't think cultures that don't use diapers (or people who EC and have always done so throughout history) in the first place really have a point where the child is in diapers to be out of diapers. If that makes sense?

The manner in which the questions in the OP uses the phrase potty trained--which to me is not really something I have ever done with any of my kids... And it does imply reward/punishment to me, and so I was just riffing on that.

I was in no way advocating a delay in potty learning, but rather commenting on a change in discipline that I have observed from when my parents and grandparents parented and how that might have impacted how quickly or slowing a child was out of diapers. For what its worth none of my 4 kids have been in diapers past 26 months... so I am not advocating prolonged use of diapers.

The OP wants to know why kids are in diapers longer, and I was simply positing that perhaps it has something to do with changing attitudes towards child behavior and parental discipline. That is all.

Sorry to be so unenlightened for you.....


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> I was trying to make it clear that I wasn't speaking about cultures that have a long standing practices of not really using diapers in the first place, i.e. largely non-western cultures.


So what "group" were you referring to?

seems it's simply not a US parent that is marketed to for extending diapering

Quote:


> Check this out:
> http://web.maths.unsw.edu.au/~jim/annachristierpt10.pdf
> It is from Australia, but I think it is pretty relevant.


extended diapering and marketing seem to go hand in hand-

I fail to see how punishment gets linked here with any factual bases-this is a new phenomena here in the US-very new. And I still fail to see your point and the impression that punishment is the cause.


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## pranava (Aug 11, 2007)

There's also not always a connection between taking a kid out of diapers and having them be potty trained. I took my kid out of diapers 10 months ago and he still pees on the floor many times a week.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

My mom believed in potty training by the 2nd birthday, but her methods were harsh and, according to her, pretty common at that time (although she might have been rationalizing.) She said she's lock us in the bathroom for hours at a time if need be and spank us if we had an accident, and with me she finally put my underwear in the bathroom and had me change myself and clean up after myself when I had an accident, and then she's spank me and put me in my room. But even then I remember having accidents in Kindergarten. I think it would be interesting to compare, but if I were doing it I'd want to compare gentle PL to gentle PL, not just ages with not knowledge of how it was done. Because I don't care how long it takes my kids to potty train, I'd change diapers for a long time before I'd spank them or lock them up over it. On the other hand, I think disposable diapers and marketing contribute to later potty learning as well. And I think children of all ages are treated as younger than they used to be, like 2-year-olds are treated as young to expect potty training, but even teenagers are treated as unable to handle things teenagers used to handle, 10-year-olds are treated as unable to handle things they used to be able to handle. It's more even than just potty training that's involved. It's a very multi-faceted thing and I can see why you're interested in researching it.

One other thing is I've noticed sometimes parents say their kids are potty trained when they're having very frequent accidents, so the definition of "potty trained" is tricky too. I don't consider a child potty trained until they aren't having accidents anymore and are able to figure out on their own when they need to use the potty without reminders and pretty well handle it all on their own, maybe just asking for help wiping, but I don't think that's everyone's definition.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> So what "group" were you referring to?
> 
> ...


Western/US-- see notes below.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pranava*
> 
> There's also not always a connection between taking a kid out of diapers and having them be potty trained. I took my kid out of diapers 10 months ago and he still pees on the floor many times a week.


Yes. Sounds like my toddler. I think he enjoys peeing on things that are not the potty!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> My mom believed in potty training by the 2nd birthday, but her methods were harsh and, according to her, pretty common at that time (although she might have been rationalizing.) She said she's lock us in the bathroom for hours at a time if need be and spank us if we had an accident, and with me she finally put my underwear in the bathroom and had me change myself and clean up after myself when I had an accident, and then she's spank me and put me in my room. But even then I remember having accidents in Kindergarten. I think it would be interesting to compare, but if I were doing it I'd want to compare gentle PL to gentle PL, not just ages with not knowledge of how it was done. Because I don't care how long it takes my kids to potty train, I'd change diapers for a long time before I'd spank them or lock them up over it. On the other hand, I think disposable diapers and marketing contribute to later potty learning as well. And I think children of all ages are treated as younger than they used to be, like 2-year-olds are treated as young to expect potty training, but even teenagers are treated as unable to handle things teenagers used to handle, 10-year-olds are treated as unable to handle things they used to be able to handle. It's more even than just potty training that's involved. It's a very multi-faceted thing and I can see why you're interested in researching it.
> 
> One other thing is I've noticed sometimes parents say their kids are potty trained when they're having very frequent accidents, so the definition of "potty trained" is tricky too. I don't consider a child potty trained until they aren't having accidents anymore and are able to figure out on their own when they need to use the potty without reminders and pretty well handle it all on their own, maybe just asking for help wiping, but I don't think that's everyone's definition.


Thank you for posting this. This is exactly what I was getting at. I know you are not the only one who went through this. Sure, diaper companies market diapers and want people to buy as many of them as possible. But that doesn't mean parents just do it. Look at formula/nursing usage. Formula is heavily marketed to new parents--some hospitals even pass out "free samples." But I only know one parent that uses formula, and think that in many areas, most mothers breastfeed.

I don't remember my parents potty training me, but I know that my brother was heavily shamed for not being completely out of diapers by 26 months. My parents still talk about it now--because he would go in the closet, go in his training pants, change his pants-- and they shamed him for this... He did this until he was almost 3 years-old. I know he was punished and shamed.

Sure, some parents still shame and punish but I don't think people do it as much now for potty training. While the diaper manufacturers take advantage of the pediatricians and psychologists advising parents to "wait until the child is ready," and not "pressure the child" there are other reasons for peds and psychs making these statements--because they have probably witnessed *a lot* of children being mistreated over potty training to make statements like this. Of course marketers take advantage of these statements, but that doesn't mean they have invented them.... they're a reaction to something widespread in the culture.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> She said she's lock us in the bathroom for hours at a time if need be and spank us if we had an accident, and with me she finally put my underwear in the bathroom and had me change myself and clean up after myself when I had an accident, and then she's spank me and put me in my room.


Quote:


> Thank you for posting this. This is exactly what I was getting at.


so this it thought to be the norm of what happened?


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> so this it thought to be the norm of what happened?


This is probably an extreme--but the more subtle example of shaming that I posted shows a range, both of which I would consider abusive. And yes, I think it probably was more prevalent and socially acceptable then. Sad, but true. I think a lot of parents now *do not* want to do that to their child and if they are in diapers for a little longer, then so be it.

*Of course* there are more gentle ways of early potty learning the emphasize parental child connection, but even that is considered radical in the United States today.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't think that's the norm - my parents were definitely harsher than most in most ways and I'd think also in potty training. But I think most parents of the 70s and 80s probably used something like the Potty Training in a Day method, which involves, when your child wets him/herself, making him/her put her wet clothes back on and then walk back and forth between the spot where he/she wet and the potty 10 times, telling him/her each time about how disappointed and upset everyone will be that he/she had an accident. "Grandma will be so disappointed that you wet your pants." That kind of thing. I won't do anything that harsh because it sounds shaming and humiliating to me, and I think that was among the more gentle methods of the good ole' days, because there was no spanking, and I think potty training did often involve spanking, at least in the 70s when I was little. Maybe not the late 70s and 80s because spanking was going out of favor a bit more by then.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I was potty trained by 15 mos. My dad put me on the potty ( a horse seat cover with handles) all day every day because he hated changing diapers. My mom used clothe and he refused to deal with it. I was stuck at home with him during the winters when he was layed off. I'm not sure how it all worked I would think that would make me bulk at using the toilet at a young age. Then again he was a spanker.


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

I was out of dipes by 2. Ds was out of dipes at 22 months. Honestly, most of my friend's kids are much closer to 3 or even older but most of them are more mess-adverse than we are & (& this is not a judgement) they are lazier about the whole thing - it is much easier to keep a child in diapers until they are old enough to transition completely to pottying on their own, especially when you are using disposables.


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

Potty trained before/at 2, just like almost everyone of my generation. And my kids too.

I am a total convert to more traditional potty learning. Super easy with cloth diapers, starting at around 18m. I like Diaper Free Before 3.I find delaying potty learning to be really gross and wasteful actually and think early potty learning is totally empowering for small people. Which isn't to say that some children won't train later but that many parents don't give the tools they need to train earlier.

Potty training can be accomplished in a lot of ways but it is a myth that traditional (I refuse to refer to it as "young") potty learning need be harsh. It certainly wasn't in our family or in mine. It does require attention.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I want to be clear that I don't think it has to be harsh. Not at all. I just think that in the 70s and earlier, it often was, and if we look at statistical data, we should view it with that understanding. My guess is that most people are very gentle with potty training now.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I see no problem with early training. I do think the relaxed attitude has helped a lot of moms with kids who were late no matter what was tried. DD1 was completely out of pull ups before 1st grade, DD2 was good by age 2. We have a long list of late learners in my family starting with my own mother her wet her bed until she was 11. Without her telling me it was okay I'm sure I would have felt like a failure. My brother was much older too, I think 7. Everyone around me told me something was wrong with DD1 and I wasn't consistent enough. I should punish her for wetting her pants awake and asleep. That didn't feel right to me. However I did meet some other moms who really helped me through the problems with DD1 and I began to relax and DH took on the role of potty training. He had her ready to go at 6.

A late learner does not mean a parent is lazy. I hate that idea. An early learned child does not mean a parent was the best at it either. My dad spanked for peeing in my diaper when I was 1 until I no longer did it. I also sat on the potty all day long. Though he still boast about how he got me trained before 2 and my mom was unable to get my brother trained until much later. Bravo dumb ass!


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

My moms boyfriend said his grandma strapped him to a potty chair with leather straps and switched him when he was fussy or struggled. 3 days, but hey he was potty trained by 15 months, thank goodness she wasn't lazy about it









My mil said she left her kids with their grandma and when she came back they were both potty trained. It also involved being spanked for getting off the potty or having accidents, I by no means think this was a rare case. You can even google pictures of potty seats with straps on them. So I think it's really silly to pretend it wasn't common.

It really bothers me that it's insinuated parents with late potty trainers are lazy. Who are you to say that, really? But I guess it's just common mdc shaming and judgement, I'd forgotten how this place was. My son will be 4 in April and has never peed in a potty. He is not delayed in anyway. He just doesn't get it. And he is traumatized by being naked or having pee on him. Shall I strap him to a potty chair?


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

I want to clarify that I did NOT mean by any stretch of the imagination that late trainers have lazy parents but IME with MY friends for many of them this is the case - they simply do not want to put effort into potty training. This is obviously not the case for everyone.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Who cares though? Not effecting your budget and potty training happens when it happens. I think it's best that everyone is on board to include the little person who has to now change his/her ways. It can be difficult on both ends. Not potty training til their older isn't lazy, they may just be going on their kids ques. Why is that so bad? How is it effecting you?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lifeguard*
> 
> I want to clarify that I did NOT mean by any stretch of the imagination that late trainers have lazy parents but IME with MY friends for many of them this is the case - they simply do not want to put effort into potty training. This is obviously not the case for everyone.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Who cares though? Not effecting your budget


well there is an impact, society does get effect by this

they are finding more UTI in those who train later (and the cost for those without insurance in the US is payed for by others- higher costs effect all- my budget)

the use of disposables effect filling up landfills

the use of cloth is high water and electric consumption

in my area you pay more to daycare if your child is not trained

so yes, some people do care because this effects others


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Well, as far as that goes, having a kid at all affects other people, but it isn't my business if someone decides to have a kid in the first place. I think families can potty train in whatever way and at whatever timeframe works for them.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I was born in the 60s. Up until the early 90s, most kids were potty trained by age two. It was unusual to be in diapers at age 3. I've potty trained hundreds of kids, and it was easier a long time ago than it is now.

I blame the thinner diapers, parents who are busier, and most of all Pullups. Parents and providers will use pullups for months before realizing, it's just a diaper.

There's a magic window at about age two. If we miss that window, we miss the perfect opportunity to potty train. Kids are so used to doing it a certain way, that trying to get them out of diapers is much harder after a while, because that's all they know.

A child can typically be potty trained in less than three days. (it can be done in one day) If a child isn't potty trained in under four days, we stop and try again later. Some people think it can take months to potty train. (it can if you are doing EC) But, if it's taking that long, it's just not the right time.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> My mom believed in potty training by the 2nd birthday, but her methods were harsh and, according to her, pretty common at that time (although she might have been rationalizing.) She said she's lock us in the bathroom for hours at a time if need be and spank us if we had an accident, and with me she finally put my underwear in the bathroom and had me change myself and clean up after myself when I had an accident, and then she's spank me and put me in my room.


Idunno.. I've been around a long time, and I have never met anybody who would do that, or agree with that. It was always encouraging, and "Oops... that's OK" if there was an accident. I can see making a child change their own clothes, that's not harsh, but most parents/adults expect accidents, and wouldn't spank. I think your experience was different than most people. Perhaps your mom was very uptight about accidents? Or had new carpet? (not that that's an excuse)


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## AuroraMT (Jan 5, 2009)

We are foreigners (from England and my father from Africa) so I think that has a lot to do with our early potty training. My eldest brother was considered really late and he was totally out of diapers by 24 months. My other brother was out of them by 10 months and me by 11. I was totally into that same plan for my son but it didn't happen. At the end we decided to just relax about it and let him lead the way. He was totally diaper free and (so far) accident free for the most part (he gets nervous in large crowds and my have an accident occasionally) by 28 months. I think child led potty training was really the right choice for us. Our youngest is 9 months and doesn't look like he'll be out of them any time soon either. My brothers and I were both pretty much EC'd but no one called it that, with cloth diapers when we did use them.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> Idunno.. I've been around a long time, and I have never met anybody who would do that, or agree with that. It was always encouraging, and "Oops... that's OK" if there was an accident. I can see making a child change their own clothes, that's not harsh, but most parents/adults expect accidents, and wouldn't spank. I think your experience was different than most people. Perhaps your mom was very uptight about accidents? Or had new carpet? (not that that's an excuse)


That method is from a popular potty-training book from the 1970s called something like Potty Training in Less Than A Day or In A Day. My mom's method was much harsher.


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## SunRise (Apr 18, 2005)

I was born in the 60's too and my parents certainly didn't use any spanking, harshness or threats for potty learning either. Nor have I heard of such experiences from my cousins and friends of the same age (60's&70's). My experience was much more supportive and encouraging.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> That method is from a popular potty-training book from the 1970s called something like Potty Training in Less Than A Day or In A Day. My mom's method was much harsher.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Alright but the shame of a late trainee is not as prevalent. Not all kids can potty train that early. Though I was my brother wasn't. DD2 was but DD1 wasn't. Is it really laziness when I had more than 4 adults helping me with DD1 to get her out of pull ups at night and not having to change her clothes 5 times a day? Or was it people realizing not all kids are ready? Some kids are great at learning to potty train some are not.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> well there is an impact, society does get effect by this
> 
> ...


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Alright but the shame of a late trainee is not as prevalent. Not all kids can potty train that early. Though I was my brother wasn't. DD2 was but DD1 wasn't. Is it really laziness when I had more than 4 adults helping me with DD1 to get her out of pull ups at night and not having to change her clothes 5 times a day? Or was it people realizing not all kids are ready? Some kids are great at learning to potty train some are not.


What exactly is late? IF it is not a "general milestone" that a child reaches in relationship to their peers, IF it is not a "medical condition" that prevents them from having bladder control, IF it is not an "emotional maturity" (again milestone that their peers are meeting), IF it is not "laziness" on the part of the parent What is "readiness" if not a milestone? and how is this not viewed a issue if the child is not meeting it in relationship to their peers?

-what is it when a child trains so much later then their peers?


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Ok, I'm viewing this with my own push for difference. I don't feel the line drawn by society is what is always right. It just isn't to me. We had a neighbor girl who was trained at 18 months, she ran she spoke in a way almost all adults could understand. She was just ahead of most kids. At the same time DD2 still wasn't walking, she talked a lot but wouldn't walk. Which meant potty training wasn't something I could try just yet. I did go in to see if there was something wrong with her, they found nothing. Within weeks she walked and right after she was potty trained. She didn't meet the walking milestone but she beat her sister in years with potty training. Also, I didn't train her. She hated to be wet and she liked to use the potty she pretty much did it all on her own. I seriously had little to do with it. And I worked my ass off to get DD1 trained. I wanted to throw in the towel almost every day with her. Did I fail? I don't think so. There are a miriad of reasons some kids will be "late" by social standards or early again by social standards. It's like any kind of learning it happens when the trainee is ready.

I doubt I answered your question.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> What exactly is late? IF it is not a "general milestone" that a child reaches in relationship to their peers, IF it is not a "medical condition" that prevents them from having bladder control, IF it is not an "emotional maturity" (again milestone that their peers are meeting), IF it is not "laziness" on the part of the parent What is "readiness" if not a milestone? and how is this not viewed a issue if the child is not meeting it in relationship to their peers?
> 
> -what is it when a child trains so much later then their peers?


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## mt_gooseberry (Jun 25, 2010)

My sister and I were done by 24mo. My parents did the get-it-done-over-the-weekend, lots-and-lots-of-praise method. My lottle brother was done by 26mo. I myself started DD very casually at 15 mo, and she is diaper free now at 22mo. We did some ec-ing starting around 4 or 5mo, and I also always took her to the bathroom w/me...that's what I attribute her success to.


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## mckittre (Jan 15, 2009)

I started casually with my son a few months before he turned 2, and tried to put him on the fast track several more times with no success. We really really wanted him done before a trip we were taking when he was 30 months old, and nothing worked (he just didn't care enough not to wet his pants, and thoroughly resisted any suggestions on our part, and rewards just didn't do enough for him). Now, at almost 3, he's out of diapers, but I can't quite call him "potty trained". He still has minor accidents regularly, needs reminders (which he resists), and won't deal with his own clothing if he's wearing anything more than just underwear. He has never been in a pull-up. I am jealous of my friends who've had an easier time with this, but they neither started earlier, nor tried anything dramatically different then us. Actually, many started later, tried fewer things, and had more success - ending up with way way fewer months of agony.


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## ~cassie~ (Sep 30, 2006)

My twin and I both trained around 18 months. I don't know what my parents methods were bc my mother is gone now but she was a neat freak lol so I'm sure that had something to do with it along with being fully cloth diapered.


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## Parker'smommy (Sep 12, 2002)

According to my mother, I was potty trained at 18 months. BUT...my brother was born 2 months later, and I balked at the potty after his arrival...lol. She took a break from trying to train me after my brother's birth and she said I was trained "late" at about 34 months old!!!

I think perhaps one of the reasons that kids are potty learning later isn't because parents are lazy, but because parents are busy!!! I know that when I potty trained my 2 oldest, I had to be dedicated at staying home and not doing errands and going out for a few weeks. It's total backtracking to potty train at home and then go out and put a diaper on a child. But many parents have no choice but to do this exact thing. They work so they have to bring their child to daycare and have to put a diaper on them to go on the trip there and back. Parents have older siblings that need to be taken place, appointments to get to, Dr. visits to attend....the life of a child in this age is busy, busy, busy...much busier than children of the past. I've had many friends come to me and ask advice on how I got my kids potty trained "early" ( and I don't agree that they were early) as they were right around 2 years old. And my biggest advice was...STAY HOME! And I tell you, when they blocked out their calendar and cancelled appointments and were able to stay home with the child for the most part....they were definitely more successful.

But, it's totally a personal choice. If you don't mind it, and want to wait....go for it. But like another poster said, you don't have to be harsh to have your child potty trained before 3 years old. It is totally doable in a gentle way. Of course, there are always exceptions to every circumstance, and some children will not train "early".


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## mrskingred (Aug 3, 2006)

From previous conversations with my Mum , my sister and I were potty trained well before two. She can't remember the exact age in months. My brother (13 months younger than I) was apparently lazy . Mum says he was over 2.5, but definately before his 3rd birthday. She used terry squares and safety pins with plastic pull on covers. This was the UK in the late 60s, early 70s.

I did ec with back up for my DS. He was totally out of nappies (I used cloth for back-up) before 22 months. It would have been sooner I think, as we only had the occasional accident between 15-18 months, but a major change in circumstances when he was 18 months (moving to a new country, new house, new people) was followed by a short period were we had continual day time accidents.

I think its a cultural thing. Obviously if you were using cloth, and didn't have a modern washing machine like my mother you had an incentive to have your children in nappies for the shortest possible time. However, disposable are widely available in the UK and Spain and I haven't seen many 3 year olds in nappies here.


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## AndreaOlson (Apr 8, 2011)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Parker'smommy*
> 
> But, it's totally a personal choice. If you don't mind it, and want to wait....go for it. But like another poster said, you don't have to be harsh to have your child potty trained before 3 years old. It is totally doable in a gentle way. Of course, there are always exceptions to every circumstance, and some children will not train "early".


There have been so many gems in this thread that I can't pick just one, but the above post sums it up for me...I know plenty of parents who PTed their kids (in 2011) within 3-14 days with non-coercive PT at the ages of 17-22 months. It was easy, gentle, and yet...*firm.* (I will share the wonderful resource with you if you PM me...but don't want to break any rules here on the Forum!)

This is a very heated and diverse conversation, and the poll results are interesting as well....thanks to everyone who has participated thus far. Hoping other parents (and grandparents) will chime in, too.

Potty training (and EC, for that matter) has a long history full of both the disgusting and the beautiful. Yet around the world, we all handle it differently; we do the best we can with what we *know* so far in life.

And, yet, I am certain that if the *parent* wishes to PT their toddler at 18 months, it can be done (without force. without bribes. without ropes! yipes!). If the *parent* wishes to let go of diapers at 9 months, I am certain it can be done (that is what I teach with Elimination Communication). It really comes down to us, and it's not a good thing or a bad thing, or anything we can judge...it's, like Parkers'mommy said, a Personal Choice. 

We are all so busy and most of us work outside of the home. We do the best we can. Daycares don't generally or necessarily help. It's hard to "fit" potty training in, but if parents make it a priority and do it in a certain manner (one that is firm yet gentle; where the parent is certain of ending the diaper-era, and the child follows suit)...it can be done...and I think parents who are interested in this should be able to access that information. For those who want to keep going til 2.5 or 3 years, then that's okay too.

It does come down to a personal choice, to convenience, to lack of information on how to PT in a gentle (yet complete) way, to culture, to personal belief systems, to lack of information on how to potty from birth, even (had to throw that in there...it's my personal fave). 

And I think it's a worthwhile conversation to continue...to look at what's been done, what we're doing now, and the 'why' behind it. To forgive what's been done in the past. To move forward in what we, personally, feel is right for us.

Looking forward to more replies and participation, if that is out there.

<3 Andrea (original poster)


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## AndreaOlson (Apr 8, 2011)

And PS...I am traveling (visiting DH's family) in Thailand right now and there ARE lots of 3 year olds in disposables here. Especially in Bangkok but even in more remote areas. And apparently the disposables came here 7-10 years ago and are a huge hit!


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## pranava (Aug 11, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndreaOlson*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> And, yet, I am certain that if the *parent* wishes to PT their toddler at 18 months, it can be done (without force. without bribes. without ropes! yipes!). If the *parent* wishes to let go of diapers at 9 months, I am certain it can be done (that is what I teach with Elimination Communication). It really comes down to us, and it's not a good thing or a bad thing, or anything we can judge...it's, like Parkers'mommy said, a Personal Choice.


Well, I am the parent of a 33 month old(who was ec'ed from early on) and it is my personal choice to be done with diapers and have DS PT'ed before 24 months. However, it is DS's personal choice to pee in his underwear, or on the floor and not care much at all. Maybe he is one of the few, but I know I am not getting what I wish here, and that seems to be his point exactly. Maybe the super stubborn ones are harder?


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pranava*
> 
> Well, I am the parent of a 33 month old(who was ec'ed from early on) and it is my personal choice to be done with diapers and have DS PT'ed before 24 months. However, it is DS's personal choice to pee in his underwear, or on the floor and not care much at all. Maybe he is one of the few, but I know I am not getting what I wish here, and that seems to be his point exactly. Maybe the super stubborn ones are harder?


This.... Not all kids will magically potty-learn during that 18-22mo window!! I don't think it matters how badly the parents want it, some kids JUST AREN'T READY. And some kids are very potty-resistant. I think it's really frustrating & discrediting to parents of late trainers to insist it's all in the parents' hands. Sure, some 18mo kids will be quite content for you to sit them on the potty every 5-10mins (because some 18mo don't have any more bladder control than that and need to go that often!!) but some kids will resist sitting on (standing on, being near) the potty even once a week. Some kids hate the potty. Some kids hate diapers. Some kids hate diapers AND the potty. It's not all about how determined the parent is.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

I find it very odd that the whole late training is now a socially expectable norm.

Such a mainstream issue that the natural/crunchy community is so eagerly embracing.

You take a natural biological issue and turn it into a socially expectable standard- what if this was done with walking or another function? In a short period of time this has changed.

IF it is not a social issue, is it that children no longer have the bladder control that they once did at an earlier age for centuries?

I feel there are detrimental ramifications when social wins out over natural. IMO


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Well wearing diapers isn't exactly natural. So how can you say there is a 'natural' age for ceasing to wear diapers?

Most kids start to walk a bit around a year old, right?? So is there something wrong with my friend's parenting because her DD didn't walk until 15mos? Is there something wrong with the parents right here on MDC whose kids didn't take a single step 'til 18mos? Is my kid more 'natural' because he learned to walk at 7mos old?? To me, that sounds ridiculous -- there is a wide range of readiness and it's probably not the parents' fault if their kid walks on the very very late end.

I feel it's the same with diapers. Certainly some toddlers are able to potty train at 12-18mos. I don't see that as more "natural" than learning at 27mos. What's the difference???

From what I've read, earlier potty-training methods were indeed more likely to be abusive. I read about the government recommending that parents manually stimulate regular bowel movements with a soap stick... and other methods like literally tying kids to the potty, physical punishment for accidents, shaming, screaming, etc. So I don't know how applicable historical age of potty-training is. Maybe the age was so much earlier because the kids were beaten into some kind of compliance. It's not all some social conspiracy to train kids later.

I don't doubt that Pampers has contributed to later potty-training... and I'm sure there are many parents that just find diapers easier and don't want to bother with training before age 3. But you have parents telling you RIGHT HERE on this thread that we did things like EC from birth, use exclusively cloth diapers, started potty-training at 18mos, etc. and the kids were NOT always ready for it that young. I said upthread that my friend started PT'ing at a year old... her DD is over 2yo now and still has many accidents a day, even though she's never gone back to diapers and she's been 100% committed to PT'ing. She'll even say her DD is potty-trained (since she's been out of diapers so long) but in my mind, she clearly isn't. My own kid -- we tried EC quite a bit (from infancy), but he hated it. He's only been in cloth diapers (even on vacation etc.) and we tried formal potty-training many times before age 2. Plus he always came with us to the bathroom, always had a small potty available to him, we talked about bodily functions, he's cognitively advanced and did understand from a young age that pee goes in the potty, etc. HE WASN'T READY. I don't know how else to say it, he just wasn't ready 'til about 2.5yo, and even now at nearly 3yo still has occasional accidents. Maybe I'm a failure as a parent, maybe I did it all wrong, maybe I should lose my "natural" badge or whatever because he wasn't ready sooner. But I really truly think that some kids just aren't ready at that magical age of 18mos.


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## Skippy918 (Jul 15, 2008)

I was trained around 2 1/2. My mom was trained at 18 months. I waited until DS was ready and started the process at close to 3. I really didn't want to force him to use the potty since I knew it would backfire. We switched him into underwear a little after he turned 3 and he's had only 1 or 2 accidents since then. Now he's fully capable of going on his own without assistance and I don't need to remind him either.

My friend's son is nearly 3 1/2 and is still not interested in using the potty. Consistency is a huge deal. If a child is with multiple caregivers during the week, it's much harder for them to focus on learning the potty.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> I feel it's the same with diapers. Certainly some toddlers are able to potty train at 12-18mos. I don't see that as more "natural" than learning at 27mos. What's the difference???


I see a hugh difference. If this was reversed and you were dealing with walking or babbling, etc *not* until age 27 months (not within the normal time frame) that would be view medically as a delay- why isn't this? It is occurring outside of the medium age (at least would normally would have been) be it because of something- is it not? "Naturally" aren't you trying for in-tune with your child- be it eating or bladder control? If you don't know at 27 months when the child is hungry that certainly would be an issue- how is this different?

there appears to be no medical data showing that children are reaching bladder control at a later age thus all studies are indicating that baring a medical delay (physical and/or psychological) the trend is social


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> I see a hugh difference. If this was reversed and you were dealing with walking or babbling, etc *not* until age 27 months (not within the normal time frame) that would be view medically as a delay- why isn't this? It is occurring outside of the medium age (at least would normally would have been) be it because of _something_- is it not?


I don't know, my DS had some social/emotional delays, maybe that is why he trained late, but I'm not sure what to say about his toddler friends who also trained late but have no other delays. I guess I am disagreeing with your average or "normal" age of potty learning. You seem to be saying that the normal age is 12-18mos. I'm saying I feel the normal age is more like 12-36mos. I don't think that this is a big change from years ago, I think it's just more apparent now because coercive & abusive methods are no longer in use -- in other words, I think a lot of trained 18mo kids years ago would not have been trained so early if gentler methods had been used. I also think that no one has properly defined "potty trained" -- does it mean simply out of diapers? Does it mean completely accident-free? Does it mean the child needs no reminders? Does it mean dry at night, too? How can you say kids trained earlier years ago, if we don't have a working definition for "potty trained"?

I don't see why there can't be a large range of readiness... at 2yo, my DS could talk like a 4yo, used scissors and crayons like a 4yo, etc. but that doesn't mean other kids his age were 'behind' because they talked like 2yo's and had more limited fine motor control. There has to be room in developmental milestones for the large range at which kids will meet them, and I believe this applies to pottying too. Maybe years ago, people were ashamed to have a 3yo still in diapers, so they kept quiet about it... who knows??


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## ellemenope (Jul 11, 2009)

I am not all that old, so maybe that is why I was potty-trained at 2.5.

DD was using her little potty (for number 1s and 2s) without prompting or suggestions and with no bribery at 19 months. She took herself to the potty when she had to go, pulled down her pants, wiped, and pulled up her pants from the very beginning. She has about 5 accidents the first 6 months, if that. She was out of diaper at night before he turned 2, but was keeping them dry well before that. We did not EC at all and only casually introduced the potty. We bought it at 13 months, put it in the bathroom, let her sit on it when she wanted with clothes on, and only introduced what it was for at 18 months (after a friend shocked me with her attempts to train her son who was the same age.) I am pretty sure she was showing bladder control months and months prior to that, because we always kept her naked for about an hour after her bath and she never wet anything. I though nothing of it at the time.

As far as readiness. Obviously there is a physiological element, but I think there is also a cognitive element as well. The child has to understand what is wanted. Then there is personality. And, that is just the wild card. Also, there are so many developmental phases between 18 months and 3 years. If a child becomes physically and cognitively able to potty train at 18 months, but then enters the defiant stage early, it is just not going to happen. Everything came together for DD. She was able to do it and she was in a phase where she aimed to please. Had I asked her to start potty training at 24 months, I have no doubt it would not have gone as smoothly.


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## pranava (Aug 11, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ellemenope*
> 
> If a child becomes physically and cognitively able to potty train at 18 months, but then enters the defiant stage early, it is just not going to happen.


So very true!! My DS has been physically capable for a long long time now. He can stay dry overnight (10 hours) and then refuse to potty after waking and stay dry for another 4 or 5 hours. Why? Straight up defiance. He has taken control of this situation and his body. If I do or say anything about the potty, it backfires. I have to wait until he decides that it is his idea to use the potty. I call him Captain Opposite! I say put your left foot down and he says - no, right foot up. No exaggeration. Captain Opposite strikes again! It's his super power







Oh, and reverse psychology doesn't work either. He can see right through it. So yes, I think it all has to come togehter and personality is a huge factor.


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## Skippy918 (Jul 15, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pranava*
> 
> So very true!! My DS has been physically capable for a long long time now. He can stay dry overnight (10 hours) and then refuse to potty after waking and stay dry for another 4 or 5 hours. Why? Straight up defiance. He has taken control of this situation and his body. If I do or say anything about the potty, it backfires. I have to wait until he decides that it is his idea to use the potty. I call him Captain Opposite! I say put your left foot down and he says - no, right foot up. No exaggeration. Captain Opposite strikes again! It's his super power
> 
> ...


This describes my son to a T. Trying to convince him to use the potty would backfire. He had to do it on his own terms. He didn't like reminders either.

For those of you that did potty train before 2. Was your child capable of using the bathroom on their own without assistance or reminders?

I think back to when DS was 18mos to 2 and there's no way I would have been able to train him. He was hardly talking and didn't know when he had to go.


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## Asiago (Jul 1, 2009)

I was potty trained in the 70's. My mother said that she started my brother and I when we were about 2 yrs, and we were trained by 3 yrs, we were both cloth diapered.

She said there was no pressure and she could not comprehend why others made such a big deal about the training (the when and how of it). She did have diaper service, maybe that was a factor.


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## eblindauer (Mar 20, 2011)

I wait until my kids are ready, and they want to. If i try to hard they back away. so i stopped trying. and my oldest was completley before 3 no accidents or anything! my youngest now likes to go any time his big brother goes just working on pooping, he realizes after he poops that he wants to go potty so hopefully soon he will realize that he got to go to the bathroom before he poops not after lol and he is 2.

my mother was potty trained by 1 along with all her sibilings.. i honestly dont know how they did it, but they did! i think it was not an option to not be potty trained back then for financial reasons.


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## Aufilia (Jul 31, 2007)

I don't know when I was PT but my mother commented recently that my younger brother was so hard to PT, that she didn't even start with my youngest brother until he was past 3.

With my DD, we started with potty sits at about 17 months but went about it really loosely and only when I was at home after work for a long time. Around 25 months we jumped on the PT wagon and she was fully day and night trained at about 28 months. She had gross motor delays, social delay, and emotional delay, but these only affected PT in that she didn't walk until past 21 months which made getting to, from, and on/off the potty harder for her.

With my DS, we had potties around the house from about the same age but our schedule has been so hectic that we didn't start to really do much until 2.5 weeks ago. Now he's been in undies most of the last 2 days. If I had the gumption to take him to the potty when he wakes up at night I suspect he'd be dry all night, too.

OP, have you read "Diaper Free Before Three"? The author summarizes a lot of actual scientific research that's been done on PTing and makes a pretty strong case that it's healthier to train earlier rather than later, and does present fairly solid data showing that the age of PT has been getting later and later over the last century.


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## AndreaOlson (Apr 8, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aufilia*
> 
> OP, have you read "Diaper Free Before Three"? The author summarizes a lot of actual scientific research that's been done on PTing and makes a pretty strong case that it's healthier to train earlier rather than later, and does present fairly solid data showing that the age of PT has been getting later and later over the last century.


Aufilia, I haven't made it thru that book just yet but I'm bumping it to the head of the line. I researched thoroughly while writing my book on EC, online and in libraries, and Laurie Boucke's book on EC is practically a historic encyclopedia on potty training! . Thanks for reminding me of Jill's work!

I must say that this thread is an interesting blend of both mainstream and natural (Mothering-esque) parenting perspectives (which surprised me). I am so excited that all of you have such diverse input on the topic.

And, Serenbat...I'm really resonant with your posts. Thank you for the eye-opening comparisons (to eating and walking) and for bringing this topic around to a less personal space, as this seems to be more of a social trend IMO too (especially when viewing it from abroad at the moment).


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I guess I disagree that this is even a "mainstream" vs. "mothering-esque" issue. I know plenty of very mainstream moms who potty train early because they think it's important as far as discipline goes and would probably compare it too teaching children to self-soothe to sleep and being left to CIO in a crib as being a necessary part of learning to be independant. And I know lots of "Mothering-esque" parents who would say they would follow their childrens' lead, no matter what age it is.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> I guess I disagree that this is even a "mainstream" vs. "mothering-esque" issue. I know plenty of very mainstream moms who potty train early because they think it's important as far as discipline goes and would probably compare it too teaching children to self-soothe to sleep and being left to CIO in a crib as being a necessary part of learning to be independant. And I know lots of "Mothering-esque" parents who would say they would follow their childrens' lead, no matter what age it is.


I agree 100%.

This is no more a "mainstream" vs. "mothering-esque" issue than homemade baby food vs. baby-led weaning. They are two different ways of accomplishing the same goal and they both focus on what the parent feels is best for the child rather than some societal convenience/ideal.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> I know plenty of very mainstream moms who potty train early because they think it's important as far as discipline goes and would probably compare it too teaching children to self-soothe to sleep and being left to CIO in a crib as being a necessary part of learning to be independant.


again I totally disagree - if I lived in sub-saharan africa and didn't have access to abundant water if would not be viewed as "discipline"


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> again I totally disagree - if I lived in sub-saharan africa and didn't have access to abundant water if would not be viewed as "discipline"


So if we live in the US and have plenty of water, we should follow sub-Saharan African standards of toilet training & make sure they are trained by 18mos, by whatever means necessary?? Should we also knock down our homes and build new ones out of cardboard boxes so our kids can have a more 'natural' life? And buy them bags of Cheetos, since that's what many poor kids survive on, so it must be healthiest, best, most natural?


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Another thought -- I wonder if the (perceived, at least) change in age of potty training could have something to do with the more widespread use of indoor modern toilets, esp. in the second half of the last century? The more natural way to eliminate would probably be squatting outside over a dirt hole... Maybe some kids have trouble overriding that instinct to instead sit on a noisy porcelain apparatus or a plastic potty...


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## reezley (May 27, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> I don't know, my DS had some social/emotional delays, maybe that is why he trained late, but I'm not sure what to say about his toddler friends who also trained late but have no other delays. I guess I am disagreeing with your average or "normal" age of potty learning. You seem to be saying that the normal age is 12-18mos. I'm saying I feel the normal age is more like 12-36mos. I don't think that this is a big change from years ago, I think it's just more apparent now because coercive & abusive methods are no longer in use -- in other words, I think a lot of trained 18mo kids years ago would not have been trained so early if gentler methods had been used. I also think that no one has properly defined "potty trained" -- does it mean simply out of diapers? Does it mean completely accident-free? Does it mean the child needs no reminders? Does it mean dry at night, too? How can you say kids trained earlier years ago, if we don't have a working definition for "potty trained"?
> I don't see why there can't be a large range of readiness... at 2yo, my DS could talk like a 4yo, used scissors and crayons like a 4yo, etc. but that doesn't mean other kids his age were 'behind' because they talked like 2yo's and had more limited fine motor control. There has to be room in developmental milestones for the large range at which kids will meet them, and I believe this applies to pottying too. Maybe years ago, people were ashamed to have a 3yo still in diapers, so they kept quiet about it... who knows??


I totally agree with this. Going to the potty is a social milestone, not a biological one. Being totally developmentally ready is a combination of a bunch of physical milestones, that I'm guessing are usually in place between 24-36months, but actually willingly going into a bathroom and sitting on a toilet to do your business - that's a larger range of readiness. And I wouldn't compare that to milestones like walking or talking, which kids just pick up on and try without prompting. It's more like putting on appropriate clothes and a warm coat when it's cold out, using a napkin to wipe their mouth, or walking a friend to the door and saying "goodbye, thanks for coming over".... parents can place great importance on any one of those things and insist kids learn to do them at an early age, or they can lead by example and mildly encourage these things and wait for kids to want to do them on their own, and everything in between. And how important any of these social behaviors really are depends on the family and their circumstances.

I don't know how old my sisters and I were when my parents potty trained us. My boys were each recently-turned-3. I'm lazy perhaps. I didn't mind changing diapers. I didn't use cloth. I chose not to deal with potty training a 2yo when I was about to have my second baby (I had made some rookie attempts, used pullups, etc., but dropped the idea for a while!). Each of them learned in a weekend that I chose to concentrate on making it happen. It was relatively easy, a positive experience for them, not annoying for me, and I would do it that way again!


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## pranava (Aug 11, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reezley*
> 
> I totally agree with this. Going to the potty is a social milestone, not a biological one. Being totally developmentally ready is a combination of a bunch of physical milestones, that I'm guessing are usually in place between 24-36months, but actually willingly going into a bathroom and sitting on a toilet to do your business - that's a larger range of readiness. And I wouldn't compare that to milestones like walking or talking, which kids just pick up on and try without prompting. It's more like putting on appropriate clothes and a warm coat when it's cold out, using a napkin to wipe their mouth, or walking a friend to the door and saying "goodbye, thanks for coming over".... parents can place great importance on any one of those things and insist kids learn to do them at an early age, or they can lead by example and mildly encourage these things and wait for kids to want to do them on their own, and everything in between. And how important any of these social behaviors really are depends on the family and their circumstances.










Lots of social norms have nothing to do with what is natural. Given the natural feedback of wetness down the legs, I'm assuming most kids would eventually find a way to potty so it doesn't get on them or things they care about. Now, what they care about is totally different than what adults care about. Pee on the floor is as of little interest or importance to my DS at the spaghetti sauce he flings on the wall. That's my learned social norm - spaghetti sauce doesn't belong on the wall - pee doesn't belong on the floor. He's not internalized these norms yet.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> again I totally disagree - if I lived in sub-saharan africa and didn't have access to abundant water if would not be viewed as "discipline"


No for moms in sub-saharan Africa, it probably wouldn't be viewed that way, but for many mainstream moms in the US I know, it is viewed that way. I'm talking about reality here and now, not reality at some other time or elsewhere.


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## seraf (Feb 1, 2002)

My mom said at 18 months they showed me how to sit on the toilet and I never had an accident again, but my brother wasn't potty trained until he was almost 3. I was born in 1980. I don't know that 18 months was the norm because she couldn't find a daycare that believed I was potty trained.

I don't have a toddler, I came here from the new posts. My kids have all been ECd from birth. They were not punished or praised for the products of their bowels and bladders. They were potty trained at 19 months and 18 months. I consider a child to be potty trained when they initiate consistently with enough time to remain dry. Neither of my kids could manipulate their own clothing at 18 months but to say they were not potty trained would be confusing to the parents who saw tiny briefs peeking out of their trousers and felt inclined to ask.

When my second child was born I was thrilled that my son was already potty trained. He had no regression at all.

My youngest is 2 months old. He pees in his pants 5-6 out of about 25-30 pees a day. I do not have to run to get him there in time. I have time to lay him down, unfasten his clothes and take him to an appropriate place. I like clothing that is easier to handle because I don't like to have to refasten them every time. He is, by my view, continent of bladder tho he does squirt a tiny bit of poo when he coughs and passes gas. I think we've had less than a dozen poopy diapers in his life outside of those small incidents. I feel that means he knows when he needs to go but lacks full sphincter control. We are expecting another baby when he is 7 months old. That baby will also be ECd. I don't know if that will make him more likely to potty train later than his older brother and sister. I don't feel like taking a baby to the bathroom every 20-40 minutes is excessive during the day because that's how often I went during pregnancy anyway.

I did once read a book about parenting from 1951. Parents were instructed to bowel train their children beginning at 8 months by buckling their child onto a toilet seat insert every morning and then leaving the room for 5 minutes to give them privacy. The buckle was for safety to prevent a fall. I personally wouldn't do it that way, but I am mentioning it for the people who might worry that their parents were strapped to a toilet for several hours a day.


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## crystal_buffaloe (Apr 30, 2010)

Just chiming in here to say that before-2 training doesn't have to be harsh. My grandma had 4 kids (all in cloth, the first 2 with an outhouse!) and were PT from 17-26 months. My grandma was/is a SUPER attentive and loving parent, very opposed to CIO and the like. According to my mom, I was PT at 18 months and my sister was at 19 months. We were in cloth and she was a SAHM without a car. She is also incredibly patient. I don't think they cared about being "potty independant" -- I'm sure they were pulling down pants, wiping butts, and reminding/initiating (heck, my mom _still_ asks me if I need to pee.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't think anyone is saying that it *has to* be harsh or *always was* harsh, just that it sometimes was, and perhaps often enough that it could skew the results of a survey like this. If more parents spanked back then, which I think is likely, then more parents probably spanked over potty training and used harsher potty training methods. (Especially if you take into account the very popular 70s pareneting book "Potty Training in a Day.") If more parents were harsher wity potty training in the 70s and before, then that might PARTLY (not totally by any means) explain why babies were potty trained younger. It just isn't an apples-to-apples comparison IMO. It's a fruit-basket-made-up-primarily-of-apples to fruit-basket-made-up-primarily-of-fruit-other-than-apples comparison.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:

Quote:


> I don't think anyone is saying that it *has to* be harsh or *always was* harsh





> I want to be clear that I don't think it has to be harsh. Not at all. I just think that in the 70s and earlier, *it often was*, and if we look at statistical data, we should view it with that understanding.


given how many time the word "harsh" has been used (it's so easy to see that word why bother quoting it) I clearly see how one could read it as harsh


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

But not once did anyone say it was always harsh. I'm aware it was not always harsh. I think it was much more often than it is now because at an early point in history parenting in total was harsher than it is now. You just have to look at old parenting advice books - read excerpts online - and I don't mean from the 80s.


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## ErinYay (Aug 21, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> But not once did anyone say it was always harsh. I'm aware it was not always harsh. I think it was much more often than it is now because at an early point in history parenting in total was harsher than it is now. You just have to look at old parenting advice books - read excerpts online - and I don't mean from the 80s.


Seriously. One of my "favorite" child-rearing books is a great tome my MIL gave me, as a joke, when I was pregnant with DD1: "You CAN Raise a Decent Child," or somesuch, from the 60s. It's like 90% "give your kid an enema" and 10% "discipline" methods that make blanket-training and Babywise look gentle.

I mean, it's hilarious, but also quite saddening given the number of children who were subjected to such things.


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## Sweetflyfishfeel (Dec 4, 2008)

I'm starting to think about PT my 19 month old, since I was trained at about 1 1/2 yrs old. My plan is to wait until summer when she can run around in fewer clothes and play outside more. I was a January baby myself, and I'm thinking that's why my mom trained me at 18 mos. My daughter was born in June.

My ex's family of 10 siblings all had bed wetting problems until the age of 8, so it may be that DD will wear pull-ups at night forever like most of them (the older ones were treated in all sorts of ways until their folks gave up). Who knows. I do notice every morning she still has a completely soaked diaper. She doesn't pee nearly as much during the day.


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## AndreaOlson (Apr 8, 2011)

Seraf, I really appreciate you chiming in here. Your story is wonderful. I'd be interested to hear whether your children "completed" the cycle of EC by consistently going on their own accord or if you "taught" anything here or there (like sitting, like it's their job now, etc). Because those ages are cognitively and developmentally when babies (IMO) should be wrapping up with EC and become PT....but unfortunately many ECers don't finish til much, much later. Please PM me!

We also EC our 16 month old and he has fewer than 1 or 2 pee misses per day. He regularly signals, wears underwear, and asks to go in the potty because that is all he's known. We have changed less than a dozen poopy diapers in his life, or less. EC is most definitely our preferred method and will be for future babies. It's easier for me to take him to the pot (he has also held it long enough for me to get there, from about 1 month old) than to change a diaper. At 13 months I taught him how to sit on the potty using a modified 3-day-method (a non-coercive yet firm and clear one) and modeled him taking himself to the potty for 3 days straight. It totally helped him by handing him the baton to start doing it himself vs. me doing all the work for him. We've never forced, tried to keep it about meeting his needs, and we've totally had our difficult days when I put him in a cloth diaper back-up to "re-set" us both. Overall, it's been a positive experience...fun even!

I don't think PT has to be coercive (although I have also read of coercive methods of the past, and present), and (take a deep breath!) I don't believe that some kids aren't "ready" (barring emotional or physical limitations, naturally). I do believe that most of the 3 day methods out there are harmful (they rely on bribes, rewards, and pressure...all external vs internal motivation). My best Mama friend does train 20-30 month olds with her 3 day program and NONE of them do NOT finish within 3 weeks...regardless of whether the parent thought the kid was ready or not. She's trained 1,000's. I think there is a bunch of disappointment around a parent thinking they're not "measuring up" where others are being successful. And I totally understand and empathize with this. And lots of parents *choose* to train at 3 years and that is totally the parent's choice. We just need to be easier on ourselves as parents...it's not a competition.

Our babies are born signaling their toilet needs. So if one chooses EC, then one might see this in action, if even part-time.

If someone has an older child and PT isn't working, it's likely the method, not the parent nor the baby's readiness or aptitude.

All of this is my opinion so please don't whack me for it! 

PS - What I was wanting to find out in this survey was more the "story" behind the PT experience of us, the parents...not necessarily statistically-pure results.  Because it's shifted dramatically in just 2 generations.


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## pranava (Aug 11, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndreaOlson*
> 
> My best Mama friend does train 20-30 month olds with her 3 day program and NONE of them do NOT finish within 3 weeks...regardless of whether the parent thought the kid was ready or not. She's trained 1,000's.
> 
> If someone has an older child and PT isn't working, it's likely the method, not the parent nor the baby's readiness or aptitude.


If she has published anything on this 3 day method, a blog perhaps or posts on MDC even, I would love to read it! If there's something I'm doing wrong, I really want to know what it is.


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## anjsmama (Apr 6, 2011)

My mom said my sister and I both trained between 18-20 months, me in 1991, her in 1995, and my brothers were both 3 when they finished training, in 1986 and 1990, respectively. She cloth diapered the boys and disposable diapered me & my sister.

My DS was mostly disposable diapered, but once we started potty training at 2, he wore cotton training pants. It took over a year for potty training. FWIW, he had a lot of other health and life factors playing into this. My DD is 12 mo and we are using EC, and she wears cloth. I'm really hoping the whole process will be "over" so to speak by the time she's 2.


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## K1329 (Apr 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kayabrink*
> 
> My feeling is that earlier potty training relies on adults being consistently aware of the child's needs in a way that is no longer feasable for all families nowadays. To pt a young child ( and I have done it twice and seen it done many times over with NO shaming or punishment) you need to anticipate the baby/toddler's potty needs for a few months, until they get the idea. even then, they need consistencey and absolute dedication to pee. What I mean by that is, no matter what you are doing and where you are, if they ask to pee you must immediately respond. That is more difficult in this day in age with so many things vying for our attention.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. We "delayed" pt, for a number of reasons. We had a few false starts, where both kids at 2, 2.5 showed resistance/lack of readiness. I backed off. At 2.75 & 3, both dd & ds were totally ready & trained basically on their own, in a couple of days. It was truly a nonevent in our home - ds has never had an accident & is now 5. Dd had a couple missteps, but had it down by day 3. For us, waiting was the path of least resistance. I had no desire to push & make it happen & wanted it to be stress free for all of us. For our family, waiting worked well. We never used pull ups, nor training pants. But, ultimately, I believe each child & family dynamic is different & what works for one family might not work for another.
I was potty trained at 18 mos. - my mom claims I taught myself & she was surprised I learned so early.


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## AndreaOlson (Apr 8, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pranava*
> 
> If she has published anything on this 3 day method, a blog perhaps or posts on MDC even, I would love to read it! If there's something I'm doing wrong, I really want to know what it is.


She has lots of info in blog posts and vids! {Sorry I spaced on writing back for a while...we've been traveling with toddler.}

Jamie is her name...here's the link: http://ecsimplified.com/pottytraining

I think she's dealt with just about everything, and is in-line with gentle parenting techniques.


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## AndreaOlson (Apr 8, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anjsmama*
> 
> My DD is 12 mo and we are using EC, and she wears cloth. I'm really hoping the whole process will be "over" so to speak by the time she's 2.


I think that if you expect to be done by 24 months, it *will* happen. So many folks in the EC circuit don't think we should have an expectation of finishing, but just as we help our kids master climbing stairs, brushing teeth, feeding themselves, and self-dressing, we can also help them master (and "do it myself!") using the potty after ECing for however long.

We are personally planning to wrap up EC next month (18.5 months), as that's the age that my potty training friend starts with her method (which signals to me that, given her 100% success rate, my son will be no different), so I'm looking forward to ending the 1-2 "misses" per day that have come with EC and to helping my son be potty independent, because I think he deserves that autonomy. He loves "do it myself." He's definitely ready (ie: his brain has developed the ability to recall repetitive things, like singing songs and such, which happens during months 14-18).

Good luck! And remember that you can help guide it to completion, no matter what others say, and you can do this in a non-coercive, EC-friendly way.


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## pranava (Aug 11, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndreaOlson*
> 
> She has lots of info in blog posts and vids! {Sorry I spaced on writing back for a while...we've been traveling with toddler.}
> 
> ...


Thanks! I watched the video on that site and it makes perfect sense. Except, her #1 tentant is "It's all about you" Well, when your child is in daycare 50 hours a week, it not all about you. I do think DS would have been done by 18 months with EC if I had not gone back to work. Now at 35 months he's doing great at home, but just starting to have dry days at daycare.

ETA: These blogs are great! June 2011 blog talks about daycare. Don't know if I agree with her course of action, but she a funny and up front lady!


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## Jamie Glowacki (Mar 28, 2012)

Hey! Man, did I get to the party late! WHAT GREAT CONVERSATIONS happening over here! Love it!

I wanted to share a couple of studies that have been done regarding the "right" age to pt.

This is from the Journal of Pediatric Urology

And this is from Parenting Science

What I particularly like about the latter article is that the author clearly separated out age from method.

"Early potty training got a bad reputation because it was once associated with bad training methods".

I don't think there's a right age but I do think there are windows of opportunity. I think largely what's happened is "ready" and "capable" got confused somewhere along the way. I believe this happened when Pampers started lining the pockets of some very vocal pediatricians and they mucked things up.

I usually ask parents what "ready" looks like. Most people think it's some version of the child pretty much asking to use the toilet on their own. This can happen but not usually. For me, ready means capable. And being a mom, I know we all underestimate our children's capabilities. To nudge us the parents along, there are pretty standard age markers for things. I was by far not the only mom crying on the first day of Kindergarten. None of us thought our babies were ready for the cold world of school. They all were and are thriving.

I often use the example of my son learning to tie his shoes. He never really asked me if he could learn this. Velcro has certainly made my life easier. And yet, I know tying shoes happens sometime around Kindergarten and I think it's a pretty important life skill. I made a concerted effort to only buy tie shoes (because I knew if I bought Velcro, I'd cave in a rush in the morning) I set aside 30 minutes every morning to teach this. There was a fair amount of frustration (me feeling inept that I was not being a good teacher, although I've been tying shoes for years) and a fair amount of patience required for both of us. But after 6 days of consistently attending to this...voila, my son can tie his own shoes. Did he show signs of readiness? or did I use spidey mom sense to know he was CAPABLE. I definitely used an outside age marker and some of my spidey sense.

In my experience, kids are capable and may even show outward signs of readiness. But I think in our very busy lives, these subtle signs go undetected. I also think most people think the desire and willingness to sit and go will increase with time. So if he asks to go on the potty once in a while, next month he should be asking to go everyday. Again, just my experience but I've found if you don't seize that window, the kid just moves on and forgets about it.

I also know that individuation begins at around 3. This is when kids learn they are different and separate from you. They push against you, testing limits. This is typically the age of ye ole' power struggle. I just don't think it's the easiest thing in the world to add pting to individuation. Remember: this is probably the first and only time your child actually, literally has the power.

And yeah, Pranava: I hear you!!! It does take a village, for sure. By "it's all about you", I mean...your overall vibe and the idea that you can guide your child towards something you know they are capable of. The bummer about a daycare not being helpful is that for most moms who work full time out of the home, the next move for your child is pre-school. Then you're screwed. Daycare wouldn't help and now you have to be pted. It's a mess and disheartening. (I'm working on a daycare program)

Yay for no more diapers! Whenever you choose to do it!

Peace and Potty Training, Jamie


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