# Your thoughts & actions relating to your child(ren)'s safety



## mama24-7 (Aug 11, 2004)

DH & I have a running battle which I'll explain below. I would like to see where others, mostly mothers, fall as far as how concerned you are & what actions you take on the following things:

1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?
2. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it?
3. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around friends/family members? What do you do about it?
4. How concerned are you about household dangers in/out of your own home, such as falls from windows, someone getting into your house w/o your knowledge, window blinds, household chemicals, etc. What do you do about it?

I feel that there are many things that are around that can harm me/dh/my children & I take precautions to avoid any harm. There are many things that I realize are unlikely to happen, such as getting into a car accident, yet I still take the precaution of using seat belts/appropriate car seats. I realize that it's unlikely that my child will be the victim of an abduction or some other bad thing from a stranger/nonstranger however I'm still teaching them how to trust their instincts & what to do if approached, etc.

Dh on the other hand, knows that many things are unlikely to happen & doesn't wish to take precautions. Such as falls from windows on the 2nd floor or above. I had to be the one to open the windows because otherwise it was done so the children could fall out. He does not see any value in making our bedroom windows, all now on the first floor since moving to a one story house, unable to be pryed open from the outside when opened by us slightly.

Thanks.

Sus


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

*1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?*

High priority. DS will be in a 5-point harness as long as possible. We talk about safety in the car, why it's important for the driver to keep eyes on the road and not be too distracted, etc. We also point out the things that keep us safer, like traffic signals and lanes and such, and talk about what they mean. DH and I always, ALWAYS buckle up, and we talk about how all of us are in seat belts.

*2. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it?*

I pretty much follow along with deBecker's "Protecting The Gift." Our son has strong instincts about who he trusts; I can't always tell what he's picking up on, but I trust him. He will flat-out reject some people, and I respect that, which I think keeps him safer. His school is really small (only 14 kids), so "strangers" aren't much of an issue there. Everywhere else, he's either supervised by us or he's in a clearly-defined childcare situation we all feel secure with.

*3. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around friends/family members? What do you do about it?*

DS is no longer allowed unsupervised time with my in-laws. By "supervised" I don't just mean we're in the same building... he needs to be in earshot/sight at all times. This after we went over there to watch the Oscars while DS was recovering from a tummy bug, and he threw up in the bedroom while we were in the living room, and they DIDN'T TELL US until they'd put all his clothes and stuff in the washer... and it turned out, they'd given him a candy when he asked for it, even though we'd already told them that he reacts to artificial colors and they should NOT feed him those candies (even when he's healthy!). Their reaction to the confrontation was far from reassuring, so we simply don't allow opportunities anymore. (This wasn't an out-of-the-blue first-time incident, either... my FIL has extremely poor judgment in general.)

I ask my mom a LOT of questions about any outings they go on together, and make sure there will be safe food (DS has several food allergies). This is her big weakness, but at least she TELLS us what's up.

No other family locally. By "friends" do you mean ours or his?

*4. How concerned are you about household dangers in/out of your own home, such as falls from windows, someone getting into your house w/o your knowledge, window blinds, household chemicals, etc. What do you do about it?*

This is where we kinda shrug. DH is more worried about breaking and entering than I am; he always double-locks the door behind him, day or night, while I am more casual about it. We don't have all the chemicals locked up (don't really have many chemicals anyway); we put what we do have (medicines, rubbing alcohol, that sort of thing) out of reach. We keep meaning to replace the window blinds with something cordless, but mostly I talk to DS about how the cord should never, ever touch his neck. In general, we're very lax about child proofing... we don't have any outlet covers







for example. OTOH, DS just isn't interested in that stuff; we child-proofed what seemed to be an issue, and left everything else alone. Maybe this next kid will have us locking up the electricity or something.


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## Lovenest (Apr 12, 2006)

1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?
*He is 5.5 years old and will ride in a 5 point harness until he maxes out the highest weight limit car seat I can find.*
2. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it?
*We homeschool and he never wants to go anywhere without us, so I never have to worry about this. I would be a nervous wreck though.*
3. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around friends/family members? What do you do about it?
*He has only been alone with his grandparents, and I trust them. I know they will give him food I would rather him not have, but thats about it.







*
4. How concerned are you about household dangers in/out of your own home, such as falls from windows, someone getting into your house w/o your knowledge, window blinds, household chemicals, etc. What do you do about it?
*I am a bit of a lock freak!







I double, triple check locks. I lock the doors when I am home. We use all natural cleaners and they are in the laundry room above the dryer (which I need a step stool to get to) and my son has never wanted to get those down. Plus, we have a good security system; a German shepherd.








Window blinds are all single and not knotted. I could not live in a 2 story house, I would be worried about the stairs and the windows. I would do all you can to protect your children, they dont know the real dangers.*


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Well, you cannot really protect your children from _all_ harm unless you put them in a bubble, in a military installation 2 miles underground. You just believe in taking more precautions than your DH and that is OK. I try to balance proper precautions factoring in DD's age and personality with allowing her to grow and make mistakes.

To answer your questions:

1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?

I once had 3 consecutive years where I had 3 very bad car accidents. To me this is not an unlikely scenario. DD has a good car seat, she sits in it every time and unlike other parents at her school, I do not allow her to wear a jacket while riding in it. Although I periodically check her car seat and the straps, I tend to not worry about it. It is just a rule, to have the car move, she has to be buckled up - and she knows it. She doesn't know why, just that it is a rule.

2. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it?

DD attends Montessori school PT and has since 12 mos. I checked the school's license, interviewed the teachers, administrator and staff. I also periodically stopped by to see what was going on through a 1 way mirror. She loves her teacher and I think she is fantastic too. I am not comfortable with in-home care here because the vast majority of people here believe in spanking or swatting. I found this out talking to people about in-home care situations.

We also tried taking DD to the gym daycare and that just didn't work. DD is high needs and didn't play well by herself and doesn't go to others well. There was one woman we took her to at the gym daycare for a few weeks that DD liked. I thought there was adequate security (cameras, background checks, no diaper changes) and this one woman would hold DD the whole time. She was fantastic.







Then DD had to move to the toddler room and I completely lost faith in how clean the room was so she didn't go back after 2 tries. We moved so I thought I could take DD to the same chain, different daycare. Toured it and in 7 minutes I vowed never to take her there for safety reasons. OTOH, a friend of mine takes her DD to a different gym where she says the daycare is fantastic. We *both* toured, talked to people and watched our kids' reaction to the situation. My gut told me to stay away and hers said 'go for it'. We both have similar requirements for our kids and their safety so I think there is a big difference in the level of care at the two gyms.

3. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around friends/family members? What do you do about it?

DD has always been high needs and doesn't separate from me well. She has been babysat by people I know well and trust completely a few times but honestly she isn't around people without me or DH that often. I have a small circle of friends that I trust completely with her.

4. How concerned are you about household dangers in/out of your own home, such as falls from windows, someone getting into your house w/o your knowledge, window blinds, household chemicals, etc. What do you do about it?

A second story window would be locked from opening too much. DD is currently enthralled with putting things around her neck so cords are all up. Household chemicals are all up because she tries to 'clean'.

That said, we have a deadbolt at 6 feet on the door because kids can easily open the door and I feel that I need it for when DD's best friend comes over. DD never leaves the house without us and it is not something I feel we need for her.

About the locks on the 1st floor windows. I don't do those either. No one is going to come into my bedroom (DD cosleeps) and steal her in the middle of the night. Just isn't going to happen. It is much more likely that there will be a fire in the middle of the night and we have to climb out the window. I might have worried about it in our old neighborhood (pre-DD, first floor apt) but not here. People are just too darn nosy and the neighborhood is too quiet.

ETA: In general I am lax about childproofing. I just change things as they come up. DD is cautious so I don't have to worry about her as much. If I had some of my friends' kids, I would have the place professionally childproofed though.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

1. *How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?* Very concerned. I'm a CPST and my kids will rear-face until they reach the limits of their seats (35 pounds or the height max) and then will be harnessed until at least 5.
2. *How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it?* They never leave my sight in any of those instances








3. *How concerned are you about your child's safety while around friends/family members? What do you do about it?* I keep them in my sight and supervise their actions.
4. H*ow concerned are you about household dangers in/out of your own home, such as falls from windows, someone getting into your house w/o your knowledge, window blinds, household chemicals, etc. What do you do about it?* We live in a single story house, with windows that lock. We lock our door at night, and we have 2 large dogs. As far as chemicals, we don't really keep anything in the house, as we mainly use natural products.


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## *clementine* (Oct 15, 2004)

All of those things are on my list of high concerns and I take all precautions.
Dh on the other hand thinks I'm a nut case because everytime he takes his medicine, I ask him if he remembered to put it away. I basically feel like it's in a mother's nature to keep a child alive, these things are instinct.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

*1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?*

Very. Just yesterday, a friend and I were talking about how many people we know who've died in car accidents. My 4 year old is in a 5-point harness, and it will probably be years before she outgrows it.

*2. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it?*

We don't have situations like these.

*3. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around friends/family members? What do you do about it?*

She has only been watched by close family that we trust. However, I've been thinking that I need to talk to her more about trusting her instincts, acceptable touch, etc., just to start to build that foundation.

*4. How concerned are you about household dangers in/out of your own home, such as falls from windows, someone getting into your house w/o your knowledge, window blinds, household chemicals, etc. What do you do about it?*

We weigh each specific danger, its likelihood, its risk, etc., but for most of your examples, we didn't find prevention to be a hassle at all. We live in a tall house, so we only crack upstairs windows. Chemicals are locked up. Blind cords are in childproof winders. We don't really worry about someone with bad intentions getting into our house, but we do lock the doors because we have relatives who just walk in without knocking and we often walk around in our underwear.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I am paranoid about everything, DH is sooo laid-back about all this stuff. I had to practically beg him to rig up our blinds so that the cords aren't accessible by the kids.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
That said, we have a deadbolt at 6 feet on the door because kids can easily open the door and I feel that I need it for when DD's best friend comes over. DD never leaves the house without us and it is not something I feel we need for her.

Oh, yeah, that's one childproofing thing we did have to do with DS. ;-) Barrel bolt at six feet on the security door. This after an... um... unauthorized excursion. ;-) He's shown no inclination to repeat the experience, but we aren't taking chances with that... it was terrifying! (And he was only gone maybe 7 minutes!)


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

We are extremely protective. My dividing line between being monitored at all times (or very, very trusted childcare, ect) is when the child is able to communicate if something is wrong. Neither of mine can do that yet, so I am not able to seperate from them much.

Child seats, ect...I do everything I can to make sure that they are as safe as possible. There are a lot of things in this world I can't control, but I can insist on things like childseats & making my home as safe as possible. My 6yo is still in a 5pt harness, and the only reason I am going to have to go to a booster seat soon is that I can't find a bigger carseat without going into the $1K special needs seats, and his muscle tone isn't quite low enough to really justify it.

On the other hand, I do allow them a lot of freedom to do things that other's might think dangerous, but I would rather they push their own limits now when the stakes aren't as high so that they learn what their physical limits are. (jumping off things, climbing, ect). I also closely supervise a lot of things that are a little dangerous, but neccessary skills (food prep and cooking immediatly come to mind).


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## Narn (Nov 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama24-7* 
There are many things that I realize are unlikely to happen, such as getting into a car accident

I was in three bad car accidents last year, and only one of them was my fault. FOUR of my cars have been totalled since I started driving. In one of them I had my face smashed in. I am terrified in the car! I not only use seatbelts, but spend the whole time telling my DH to SLOW DOWN. But he doesn't seem to care. Geez, he'll leave plastic wrappers lying around. I don't leave the kid alone with him for more time than it takes for me to shower.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

I'd say of those, I'm most worried about car safety but not really worried about any of them. My five year old is in a booster seat; I will keep her brother in a five point harness much longer than she was in one, but I am not going to put her back in one now.

I trust all our friends and all the family we see around my kids . . . I wouldn't keep someone in my life if I didn't trust them. We don't do school but if we end up using one at any point, I'd just make it my business to be very involved and on top of things there. I don't believe in "stranger danger," nor do I believe that everyone is out to diddle my kids. And I'm not terribly worried about household "hazards" or breaking and entering. We lock our door at night, but I haven't done anything special to the windows and our chemicals are in an unlocked cabinet under the sink . . . I mostly just try to be aware of what my kids are up to.

I'm not a worrier by nature, though, and I strongly reject overly protective parenting.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

> *1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?*
> My kids are light, but we still have moved them on to a 3-point harness. It's probably not legal in the US, but I am comfortable with our arrangement.
> *2. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it?*
> I have always been very picky about our kids caregivers, & I fully trust everyone who cared for my children. We used community-based childcare when necessay, & it worked well for us.
> ...


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aussiemum* 
*1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?*
My kids are light, but we still have moved them on to a 3-point harness. It's probably not legal in the US, but I am comfortable with our arrangement.

How old are your kids? Do you mean they are in a seatbelt? I would be much more worried about the safety of my kids than the law.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

I see her kids are 9 and 7. All other things being equal it seems a booster is a fine choice for that age range.

For the poster who said, "I'm not likely to be in a bad accident" think again. Car accidents are the number 1 killers of children in the United States.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

*1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?*

Car crashes are the number 1 cause of child death in the US today. As a paramedic, I saw lives cut short that could have been saved with a correctly installed CRS. So, yes, I am very concerned. I never drive anywhere without my kids seated in appropriately sized restraints, installed perfectly. Everyone in the vehicle, adults and other kids, are required to be strapped in. I don't drive like a jerk. I took an Advanced Driver's Training course and am a certified CPST.

*2. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it?*

Stranger danger is over-played. Children are most in danger from those known to them. I take reasonable precautions (make sure child care facilities' workers are vetted for a clear background), keep an eye on them at the playground. But I am not paranoid. I trust my spidey sense. If the spidey sense says, "That person is dangerous" I pay attention to it. Other than that, I encourage my children to be social, and learn how to read bodily signals.

*3. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around friends/family members? What do you do about it?*

The people who concerned me (chiefly, DH's familiy) are no longer part of our lives. I trust all of my family within reason. I know my parents would run in front of a train to save my kids, but they still can't buckle car seats properly. I do that for them









*4. How concerned are you about household dangers in/out of your own home, such as falls from windows, someone getting into your house w/o your knowledge, window blinds, household chemicals, etc. What do you do about it?*

Reasonably concerned. I don't leave the children unattended on the second fllor. I don't leave toxic chemicals in their toyboxes







and I used essentially all natural cleaning products. The cords from the window blinds are tied up out of reach of little hands.

I don't get too crazy. Electrical outlets have covers on them but I have never covered sharp corners in protective foam. Children need space within reason to figure out how their world works.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
I see her kids are 9 and 7. All other things being equal it seems a booster is a fine choice for that age range.

For the poster who said, "I'm not likely to be in a bad accident" think again. Car accidents are the number 1 killers of children in the United States.

Good catch, thanks


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## sarahmae1 (Nov 11, 2002)

*1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?*
Very. I do what I can to keep my kids as safe as possible in the vehicle, within our budget constraints. My baby rides rfing in a Safeseat, my 4yr. old is harnessed in an Apex65, and my 7yr. old uses a highback booster seat. We don't go anywhere unless they are properly restrained. They don't ride with anyone but DH or myself (except my mom if she drives our van w/ the kids seats in it).

*2. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it?*
Very. Other than school, I attend everything with my children and keep them close to me.

*3. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around friends/family members? What do you do about it?*
Hmm... I have a few family members that I trust to watch my children, but otherwise I do not leave my children alone in a room with anyone whom is older than they are.

*4. How concerned are you about household dangers in/out of your own home, such as falls from windows, someone getting into your house w/o your knowledge, window blinds, household chemicals, etc. What do you do about it?*
Somewhat, I do the best I can w/ childproofing, etc. and keeping an eye/ear on the kiddos at all times.


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## cutekid (Aug 5, 2004)

1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it? *I am very concerned. My DS rides in a 5-pt harness. Also the there are very few things that aren't restrained in my car. I would like to think I have reduced the number of possible projectiles.
*
2. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it? *I have a policy of not leaving my child with people I don't know. If I want to use a nursery, or other facility for my sno I will observe several times with and without my DS to get a feel for the person in charge*

3. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around friends/family members? What do you do about it?*Well....that's a hard one. In one hand I know the skills of my family and I am like "okay". On the other hand I sent my mother to buy a car seat for her car and she bought a booster seat and used it for my one year old DS. I try to educate my family and friends about how I want things done. If my DS is going with friends I show them how to use my car seat only after its been installed*

4. How concerned are you about household dangers in/out of your own home, such as falls from windows, someone getting into your house w/o your knowledge, window blinds, household chemicals, etc. What do you do about it? *Falls from windows...I should be but in all honesty the windows don't open ....and my DS cannot reach them. Break in...where I live people sleep with out locking the doors so thats a non issue. House hold chemicals have been reduced to vinegar and baking soda. The bleach and detergents are kept out of reach in laundry room. My DS has been tested for lead several times...each time we have moved actually to make sure he hasn't picked any thing up from where we lived (pre-1980 homes)*

I have gone to school for Environmental health and safety. I look at things from a safety stand point. In my house we do have on going battles. For example my DP is very concerned about sanitation. I have to sanitize the kitchen according to the FDA food code. It drive me nuts because I don't think we need to worry about getting HEP A from our own dishes.
On the other hand my DP thinks I am nuts for having a high weight 5 pt harness seat for our DS. He thinks all of the laws concerning boosters and Child Restraints are just to make corporations money. So we shouldn't be feeding them more money.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

mama24-7 said:


> DH & I have a running battle which I'll explain below. I would like to see where others, mostly mothers, fall as far as how concerned you are & what actions you take on the following things:
> 
> 1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?
> Concerned, but we rarely drive or ride in a car; usually subway or walk. So I have a 5 point harness for 4 yo in my parents car, where we ride about 2-3 times a month. I have a Ride Safer Travel Vest for rare times we rent a car or travel out of state because I don't feel I have the room to store something bigger. DS is in an infant seat that works up to 35 lbs. Statistically speaking, there are frequent deaths in car accidents. (OTOH, I don't buy a seat on the plane for ds when we fly. I do put him in the mei tei though. The number of survivable crashes is so miniscule and the mei tei does a better job at containing him when there's turbulence--ongoing, don't have to take them out to nurse--than the infant seat did with dd--IMO.)
> ...


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:

(OTOH, I don't buy a seat on the plane for ds when we fly. I do put him in the mei tei though. The number of survivable crashes is so miniscule and the mei tei does a better job at containing him when there's turbulence--ongoing, don't have to take them out to nurse--than the infant seat did with dd--IMO.)

*sigh*

1. Survivable crashes are the most common kind of 'crash'. Rough landings and aborted take offs are what happen most frequently. The people who survive those accidents are the adults. The people who do not, or are severely injured, are lap babies.

2. The mai tai does not do a better job. All the mai-tai does is turn your baby into an airbag...for YOU...in a crash or turbulence. So your baby is crushed to death, but you'll probably live.

3. You can take your baby out to nurse when the fasten seatbelt light is off. When the fasten seatbelt light is on, the baby needs to be in a CRS.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
*sigh*

1. Survivable crashes are the most common kind of 'crash'.

That doesn't make them common, you know. All risks of airplane travel are astronomically miniscule--A thorough FAA review showed that on planes "Infant restraint would prevent maximum of 5 infant deaths over 10 years." (http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache...&client=safari) A maximum 1 death every 2 years as a theoretical maximum?

In contrast 20 people each year die from falling out of bed; 125 kids under age 5 per year are killed by hot water. Lap infant death is less common than death by being struck by lightning, slightly more common than death by shark bite...

It's silly, IMO, to worry about such a thing. So I don't. Clearly you don't agree, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong not to worry.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
2. The mai tai does not do a better job. All the mai-tai does is turn your baby into an airbag...for YOU...in a crash or turbulence. So your baby is crushed to death, but you'll probably live.

The worst turbulence I've seen is when there isn't advance warning and the seatbelt sign isn't on. Rather than being in a mei tei the whole flight, seat babies are in and out of the seat, usually not restrained while out of the seat. In a seat, we also had the idiot in front of us bashing the seatback into baby's car seat. In a mei tei, they're farther back. In crash, maybe the "air bag" hypothesis would be true, but not in turbulence. And the 4 lap babies in the Sioux City crash? 3 lived, 1 died. I think thats a better survival percentage than that % of belted adults. If you feel better and safer by worrying, then do. I don't.

Actually, that's probably relevant for the OP too... If you feel safer by spending time worrying, then worry and also do something about it. If it's just repetitive, non-productive worry, then find a way to stop worrying about it.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

If you feel the need to justify to yourself why you do what you are doing, is that because maybe you know in your heart of hearts that it's not totally kosher?

Statistics and common sense do not bear out your point of view. I'm not being snarky or condescending, just honest.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Actually, I tried to worry about it. And looked at all the video, blah blah blah. I used to be a worrier, my mother is a worrier, and I thought surely I should be concerned about this... much like with thinking I needed to do all vaxes, the illnesses must be so horrible. The more I looked at actual numbers, not overwrought emotional goofiness, the less I could drum up enough worry to not go on trips, buy an extra seat, forgo gymnastics class and museum membership to buy an extra ticket. What statistics, what real numbers, could possibly show that flying as a lap infant is dangerous? There are at least manufactured, conjectured, contrived statistics for why rotavirus *could, maybe, possibly, in improbable cases* be fatal in the U.S. I haven't seen even any highly theoretical scary numbers for lap infant deaths. Everything just quotes Jan whatshername the flight attendant with under-treated PTSD and some numbers on how many gs something weighs in a crash. That's not statistics, or information, or fact, that's pandering and hysteria. If you feel better by worrying and buying a seat, do. I'm more than certain that my 10-12 flights a year lap infant will be a well traveled, confident adult. If the media/NTSB (won't be FAA, they've rejected that bill over and over) comes up with some worry-worthy reason then I might worry for a day and choose to buy a seat from then on.

Clearly, as I said in my earlier post, I'm not a worrier any more, as it doesn't do any good unless you're actually going to do something about it; so if it's not high enough worry to compel you to do something, immediately, let it go. I worried about the car seat/booster seat/rider vest for my then just-under-four-year-old for about a day. Then I made my choice and stopped stressing about it.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Statistics and common sense do not bear out your point of view. I'm not being snarky or condescending, just honest.

Really? What statistics? I just see you link to the video of the Sioux City nearly 10 year old crash, which also has no statistics, just hand wringing.

And I know I should let this go, but I'm just annoyed.
From the Sioux City crash, where actually, none of the lap infants died from impact; 1 of smoke inhalation.
_The following is extracted from the NTSB Aircraft Accident Report for UA232:
"There were four in-lap occupants onboard flight 232. (6) Three of them were under 24 months, and one was 26 months old.

During the preparations for the emergency landing, parents were instructed to place their "infants" on the floor and to hold them there when the parent assumed the protective brace position. The four in-lap occupants were held on the floor by adults who occupied seats 11F, 12B, 14J and 22E.

The woman in 14J stated that her son "flew up in the air" upon impact but that she was able to grab him and hold onto him. Details of what happened to the 26-month-old child at 12B during the impact sequence are not
known, but he sustained minor injuries. The mother of the 11-month-old girl at 11F said that she had problems placing and keeping her daughter on the floor because she was screaming and trying to stand up. The mother of the
23-month-old at 22E was worried about her son's position. She kept asking the flight attendants for more specific instructions about the brace position and her "special situation with a child on the floor." The mothers of the
infants in seats 11F and 22E were unable to hold onto their infants and were unable to find them after the airplane impacted the ground. The infant originally located at 11F was rescued from the fuselage by a passenger who heard her cries and reentered the fuselage. *The infant held on the floor in front of seat 22E died of asphyxia secondary to smoke inhalation.* The Safety Board addressed the infant restraint issue in Safety Recommendations A-90-78
and A-90-79 issued May 30, 1990._

In a car, I'm all with you, and love Car Seat Techs, but I think on planes car seats are held out as some bizarre panacea. They're for cars, where they do statistically save lives, because you and your child will be in an accident someday if you drive at even 10% of the average in the U.S., like I do.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

I hate to bump an older thread...but i see no one responded to the interesting points that EviesMom has brought up. Since the idea of spending hundreds of $$ on a seat for a baby has recently been brought up on another thread, i thought maybe someone could refute the points she made about "lap babies"? Because i felt like she made some compelling arguments...









Is there actually statistics on how many lap babies fly each year in this country, and of those, how many are seriously hurt or killed in accidents/turbulance, etc, and whether that would have been prevented by being strapped into a carseat? I rarely fly (last time was years and years ago), but i was just curious!

Katherine


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Why does it matter what the statistics are? Who cares how many babies are injured? The point is, being in a moving vehicle totally unrestrained is very dangerous, and I'm not risking my child.


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

*1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?*

Very. DD and DS were in 5-points until they reached the 40 lb. weight limit (just a few months ago for DS - he's 7) and will be in one until... well, I'm not sure. I'd say 80 lbs but I was 80 lbs. in high school, so I'll have to wait and see. DD's friend asked the other day "You're still in a booster seat???" and DD simply said "Yes." like it was completely normal, which I wish it were *sigh* Of course, the imp weighs about 46 lbs. and is almost 9.

*2. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it?*

Very. We started the 'stranger' talks and the 'nobody touches your body' complete with scenarios, when the children were around 2. We periodically refresh about once every 6 months. We also have "what if" plans in case something ever does happen so they know what to do.

My children didn't go to daycare and I won't even put them in the childcare room at the gym. The only place I leave my children is in Sunday School at church.

Extracurricular activities - like sports? I let my children play any and all sports. They always have the proper protection (DD and DS have their own batting helmets) - shin guards for soccer, helmets for baseball, helmets AND pads for bike riding, etc. I also had them wear helmets ice skating and roller skating until they were probably...5?

*3. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around friends/family members? What do you do about it?*

Well, my children are not allowed at my mother's house because my little brother is smoking pot and dealing it (just found out, am totally heartbroken). Thankfully, my DH found out about this (from a fellow cop friend) before she moved in (3 days ago, before that, my brother lived with his dad). So, no trips to grandma's. Also, they aren't allowed to go anywhere with DH's dad. A few years back, after a charity football even that DH played in, FIL took the kids home from Seattle (so we could go to the after-party). DD told me the next day that he had left DS in the car while he and DD went into the convenience store at the gas station because DS was sleeping. Oh, but the doors were locked... NEVER again. Makes me sick just thinking about what could have happened.

The ONLY people I feel completely safe in leaving my children with are my ex-step-mom (LONG STORY) and her DH. Actually, if something were to happen to DH and I, they would raise the kids.

*4. How concerned are you about household dangers in/out of your own home, such as falls from windows, someone getting into your house w/o your knowledge, window blinds, household chemicals, etc. What do you do about it?*

VERY.

Falls from windows and window blinds, not so much anymore since they are older.

Someone getting into my house... good luck. We have a security system, complete with my own remote that stays by my bed. Also, I know this won't win me any points, but we own many guns and I know how to use each and every one. They are kept in a locked gun safe that is, literally, bolted to our bedroom floor.

Chemicals - we're actually phasing them out. Since this is a newer concept to us, we're using the rest of the existing ones, but going green after that. When the kids were smaller, they were places they couldn't reach. When they got a bit older, we used the Yuk stickers and had many talks about chemicals and cleansers and what they could do to ones body.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

*1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?*

Well I feel a 5-point harness car seat is the safest car seat for my DS. In the UK though, they dont make them like they do in the USA. We have two choices of car seat that are 5-ponit harness up to a bigger age/weight limit. The one we have, they dont make any longer - it will hold my son in a 5-point harness until he is 55lbs. They say that is roughtly 6 years of age, but he is 40lbs now at 2.5years! hehe We do our best! - I couldnt imagine putting him in a booster at such a young age despite his weight is technically 'suitable' for a booster according to most booster guidelines.
Thats all we can do I guess. I dont want us to live in a bubble and never go anywhere because then life woudlnt be that much fun for us I dont feel.

*2. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it?*

I am actually not too concerned. This is down to my son though mostly (hes highly sensitive) and the very small village we live in (the kind of small village where everyone knows your name! lol). If any stranger so much as got into his personal space, the whole world would know about it!!! Hes always with me or family though. We home educate so hes not going to school, I will always be nearby at least. Im not home educating becasue of his safety, but as hes only 2.5 years old and isnt going to be away from me, I dont feel the need teach him about 'stranger danger' yet or worry about it either. One day he will be doing things without me - where he is alone with strangers...I will teach him about not letting anyone touch him, etc then. Hopefully we will also have a strong enough relationship where he can feel he can tell me anything as well as I feel this is important to childrens safety. Also...(this will be carried on in #4) how we 'raise/parent' our children is very important. We do not punish, coerce, praise, etc... If my son does the right thing, its for the right reason. ...I feel its important to mention this becuase I was talking about my sons high sensitivity to strangers one day with a friend and she said 'oh my daughter would be easy to kidnap becuase all you have to do is offer a biscuit'... and you know, thats very SCARY! Her daughter is constantly being punished for her behviour (naughty step, etc) and rewarded for other behaviour (biscuits/cookies to you lol/stickers/toys/etc) and coerced into doing something 'if you do this, ill give you this!' or threatened into doing something 'Do that and you wont get a biscuit!'...So I can see how at such a young age it would be very easy to take advantage of her! All you would have to do is threaten her with hurting her mummy or coerce her with 'goodies'... 'Let me touch you here and ill give you a biscuit'...'Come with me little girl and I can show you some fun toys'...'Keep quite or ill hurt your mummy!'.... SCARY!!! - Especially as her daughter is in preschool now at 3...all day with strangers! etc etc... This would never work with my son!...These are not techniques we use with him!

*3. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around friends/family members? What do you do about it?*

I am more worried about them damaging him mentally than I am about his safety will all the 'good job and good boy!' thrown at him from family and friends! lol...

*4. How concerned are you about household dangers in/out of your own home, such as falls from windows, someone getting into your house w/o your knowledge, window blinds, household chemicals, etc. What do you do about it?*

This will probably be down to both nature and nurture but dont knock nurture!...I feel its very important to hold your child continuously from birth - for a lot of the reasons you mentioned above. We also live consensually. Which I also feel is important. We dont have things locked up in our house or out of my sons reach. If something is potentially 'dangerous' like falling down stairs or a knife - I feel its much better to teach them how to do/use it properly because I feel thats the only way they can learn and do things safely. My son doesnt feel the need to drink chemicals or use scissors and/or a knife inappropriatly or throw himself into the streed. Yeah, hes not highly spirited, but hes not a vegetable either - he has learned how to be 'safe' a lot through a strong bond, a close relationship, continued closeness, being treated with respect and being an active participant in everyday life!


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Why does it matter what the statistics are? Who cares how many babies are injured? The point is, being in a moving vehicle totally unrestrained is very dangerous, and I'm not risking my child.

Thats certainly your perogative....but for a family in which spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars for a seat on an airplane for a tiny infant might be seriously damaging to their budget....it might actually matter if there is a real risk to their child by not buying that extra seat.

I'm actually comfortable taking risks with my child's life....i risked my child's life by not vaccinating (he certainly could have acquired a disease for which a vaccine was available), because i felt *the benefits outweighed the risks* and because i felt that *statistically the risk to my child was so small as to not be a consideration.* I know someone who tripped on his basement stairs, hit his head, and is now brain-injured. I also know someone who drove recklessly on his motorcycle while drunk, and is now brain injured. But i suspect the reason why we urge helmets to be worn in the second situation, and not the first, is because it is statistically unlikely that one will become permanantly disabled when one falls on the stairs, vs. getting in a motorcycle accident(not to mention how impractical it would be to always wear a helmet.)

I just thought it was interesting that statistics get posted alot here (not to mention videos and alarming anecdotal evidence) but when someone posted info to the contrary (and how accurate or relavent that info is, i dont know.) no one came to refute. Maybe it was just an oversight...









fwiw, i have never flown on an airplane with an infant, period, and have no plans of doing so in the foreseeable future...

Katherine


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama24-7* 

1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?
2. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it?
3. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around friends/family members? What do you do about it?
4. How concerned are you about household dangers in/out of your own home, such as falls from windows, someone getting into your house w/o your knowledge, window blinds, household chemicals, etc. What do you do about it?


1. Very concerned. DS has always had to stay in his carseat. I wouldn't let him out for any reason so we would pull over if we had to to comfort him.

2. Not very concerned b/c we make good choices and I am not paranoid of people. He will go to a new nursery if we are visiting a church. He's had some college-girl babysitters. We have a great daycare. I'm glad that we are not people that think everyone is out to hurt us and we use common sense.

3. Not at all concerned b/c we are lucky to have family that we trust.

4. We would childproof somewhat but not to the degree that I know some people do. We used a few gates here and there, are careful w/ cleaning supplies, we don't have those kind of blinds. Again we use common sense without being paranoid.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
*Why does it matter what the statistics are?* Who cares how many babies are injured? The point is, being in a moving vehicle totally unrestrained is very dangerous, and I'm not risking my child.

Of course it matters!!!!

If the statistics show that it's worth it - then I would happily put my baby in a carseat in a plane. But if they don't - then I'm not going to torture them that way.

The statistics are what convinced me to keep my DD RFing. The statistics are what convinced me that we will use a high back booster.

Statistics are IMPORTANT.


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## Collinsky (Jul 7, 2004)

*1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?* I'm not concerned, because they're always properly restrained. All my children are under 40 lbs, so they are all in carseats, and my toddler is still rear-facing at almost 2. He's a tiny one, so only a little over 20 lbs. I also drive as safely as I can, and I don't get on the road if I'm overtired... that's more important to me than the brand of carseat.

*2. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it?* I never leave my child with strangers. No nursery school, etc. Babies always stay with me. Toddlers and preschoolers have stayed in the children's room at church (it's more fun than sitting







) and I check on them - more to make sure they are doing alright and see if they need anything than because I don't trust the woman who is in there. If they want to take a dance class or something, where I won't be there, I would trust that they know that no one can touch them in any way that makes them feel uncomfortable, and that their private areas are not to be touched by anyone, not even a dr, unless mommy or daddy is there. I wouldn't hesitate to ask for background checks on anyone I was leaving my child with. Any and all sports that they want to participate in, cheerleading or football or otherwise, is fine by me, I have a low concern for that.

*3. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around friends/family members? What do you do about it?* Around some family, not at all. Around others... well, let's just say that they will never be in any situation where they could possibly be alone with any of our children. NEVER. I also wouldn't leave my children with my brother - he's awesome and loves them, but I think that having them for a couple hours would be more than he could bear, and I don't want to put him in a position of snapping at my children, and then me being mad at him for the rest of our lives... etc. I can think of very few people that my children could stay with - my MIL wants to take my eldest Dd for a special weekend together, and I don't trust her to be able to keep my daughter safe at an amusement park. (Other issues there, too, but we'll go with that one.)

4. *How concerned are you about household dangers in/out of your own home, such as falls from windows, someone getting into your house w/o your knowledge, window blinds, household chemicals, etc. What do you do about it?* Pretty lax with what the kids are physically allowed to do, they climb on stools, jump on the couch, and up trees and such. Them I trust. I do worry about falls from windows, so I talk to them about the danger. We don't have too many rules but hanging out the upstairs window is _prohibido._ I keep all doors locked at night, and downstairs windows closed and latched. Also, anyone who's been scoping out our apt for a possible B&E knows that it's not uncommon for someone to be up and about at all hours... I don't do it to deter robbers but I'm sure it can't hurt.







Window blinds... I try to keep them up, but don't worry too much about them. Household chemicals are up high, and the kids know that they are poison and that they can't drink it. Nothing's foolproof, but it's as close as I'm going to get without a steel safe and combination lock.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

I have removed some posts from this thread in violation of the MDC UA. Please refrain from attacking each other (or any other UAV) or this thread will be locked or removed.

Thank you for your cooperation,
Dallaschildren


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

*1. How concerned are you about your child's safety in a vehicle? What do you do about it?*

They ride in appropriate carseats/boosters as per current recommendations. 1yo rearfacing, 2.5 yo forward facing, 4.5 yo in a booster, 9 yo fits the seatbelts sans booster. I don't know if I could attach a level of concern here - I do my best to drive carefully and have everyone safely restrained, and there's not much more I can do about it.

*2. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around strangers, say at nursery school, a extracurricular activity, the childcare room at the gym you go to, etc.? What do you do about it?*

The caregivers are well-vetted and never alone with the kids, so not worried. If I didn't feel safe with the caregivers, I wouldn't leave my children there.

*3. How concerned are you about your child's safety while around friends/family members? What do you do about it?*

Not concerned at all. Either I'm there, or they're with someone whom I trust implicitly. I would trust my family members' judgment about safety issues.

*4. How concerned are you about household dangers in/out of your own home, such as falls from windows, someone getting into your house w/o your knowledge, window blinds, household chemicals, etc. What do you do about it?*

Somewhat concerned. We lock doors and have an alarm system (burglaries unfortunately rather common in our neighborhood). Toxic chemicals are stored in locked/unreachable locations. Toilet lid is shut and bathroom door is closed to guard against baby dangers. Eating and bathing are supervised. We take basic precautions but don't drive ourselves nuts with it. They can play on the playset or go up and down stairs without helmets and kneepads.

With most things...we compare the cost of a safety behavior against the likelihood of injury X the severity of possible injury. For instance in the case you raised, I would weigh the difficulty and expense of modifying the windows against the likelihood of a burglary and how horrifying or dangerous a burglary would be for our family.


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