# Spending 3 hours putting my 8 month old to bed every night. Had enough.



## eastendjenn (Oct 1, 2008)

I'm so tired of sleep shit. We have a three year old who, at 18 months, was still waking every 2 hours to nurse. She finally started sleeping through the night a little past two, shortly before our second was born. DD2 has slept in our bed since the first night we had her home with us. She nurses throughout the night, but honestly, it doesn't disrupt my sleep enough for me to mind. The problem is going to bed. She is obviously tired at about 7 pm. We have her ready for bed by then, and I lay down in our bed with her to nurse her to sleep. We do this because if I try to get her to sleep any other way/place, and then have to lay her down, she'll wake as soon as I lay her down. At least if I nurse her to sleep in bed I have a chance to slip away. Inevitably, though, she falls asleep, and then wakes again anywhere from 1 to 45 minutes later. From that point on, she will cry if my H tries to do anything with/for her, and cry if I do anything other than lie down and let her nurse. If I lie with her and let her nurse, she is happy and almost playful, pulling off and smiling at me, not at all sleepy. I fight with her trying to put her to bed for about 3 hours every night. We don't eat dinner until 10:30 pm. I have zero time to do anything else because I work during the day and then spend my entire evening on bedtime. I'm done. After 3.5 years of this, I'm just done.

Last night we had dinner with friends and afterward they announced that they needed to put their baby to bed. Got him in his pjs, said goodnight, walked into his room and laid him down, and walked back out. That was it. Unreal.

I don't want to go the CIO route, I really don't. But I am beginning to believe we have created our own monsters here. We are the most AP parents in our circle of friends, and of course we are the only ones who devote countless hours to this crap. It isn't reasonable, it really isn't. It isn't reasonable for our family to function this way. I needed to make a grocery list tonight, you know? Something has got to change.

I'm open to any suggestions. Please.


----------



## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

Is she napping enough during the day? At 8 months, she should probably still be on 2 naps, totally about 3 hours (or more). You might also try putting her down even earlier, if that's possible. Aim for 6:30 or so. At that age, I think the 2-3-4 sleeping rule is in effect: first nap 2 hours after waking up, second nap 3 hours after waking up from that, bedtime 4 hours after waking up from second nap. Some kids need even more sleep than that, though.

Your baby is younger, but starting at about a year both of my kids really enjoyed looking at board books in their cribs before they fell asleep. It was slightly tougher for DD, but DS loves his crib and asks to sit in there. I can hear him happily reading and babbling to his stuffed animals for about 1/2 an hour before he finally drops off. An 8mo is probably too young for that (I'm having parenting amnesia and I can't even really remember what an 8mo is like!) but that might be a hope on the horizon.


----------



## eastendjenn (Oct 1, 2008)

Thanks, lach. She does nap pretty well twice a day. Putting her down for bed earlier is certainly worth a shot, though; I'll try that tomorrow. I have tried putting her in her crib with a toy recently, and she just cries, but maybe that will work in a few more months. I know it's just a matter of time . . . DD1 took over 2 years before she slept through the night on her own, but I'm still glad we let her do it when she was ready rather than when we were. I just find myself without the same level of patience this time around. I know that's not fair, but there it is.


----------



## Vancouver Mommy (Aug 15, 2007)

I don't know how helpful this is, but at 8 months I was still letting my son nurse to sleep on the couch. When he was out I would move him off my lap and then shift him to bed when I knew he was in a deep sleep. By one year it was much easier to get him to go to sleep with his sister in our bed.


----------



## To-Fu (May 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vancouver Mommy* 
I don't know how helpful this is, but at 8 months I was still letting my son nurse to sleep on the couch. When he was out I would move him off my lap and then shift him to bed when I knew he was in a deep sleep. By one year it was much easier to get him to go to sleep with his sister in our bed.

Granted, my younger son is only 4mo, but this is what we do, too. I think if I tried to do anything else, I'd be in the same boat as the OP.


----------



## WriterMom2be (Feb 4, 2008)

That's really tough. I don't like the idea of CIO and luckily we didn't have to do it because my ds didn't get upset at bedtime. I have friends who are mainstream and believe a baby getting enough sleep is as important as breasfeeding. They didn't view short crying spells as being cruel just like moms don't consider letting a baby cry instead of giving a bottle when they have breast feeing problems or an allergy issue to be cruel. I can understand the thinking on both sides, that they are doing what they believe is the best for the baby even if other people disagree. I can't stand letting my kid cry, so yep, I sabotaged breastfeeding by giving in to his hunger screams when we had latch issues. Now when he wakes up at night I go in and inadvertantly turn what might be a short cry (there are times when I've peed first or made a sippy cup up and he's fallen back to sleep) into a half hour screaming fit when I go in his room. Parenting is hard.

I'm not advocating or suggesting CIO just to be clear. Sleep issues can be really hard and I hope you find something that works for you soon!


----------



## Fujiko (Nov 11, 2006)

Check out The No-Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley from the library or a bookstore. We're on day two and we're already seeing improvements.


----------



## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

It could just be a phase or developmental leap or something. Honestly I might try moving her nap/sleep schedule around a little bit somehow. Have you read any of the Ask Moxie stuff about CIO & sleep? She has some really helpful insights. (http://www.askmoxie.com) I'm sorry you are going through this, FWIW, I had a non-sleeper myself and it is so, so hard.


----------



## Ruby2 (Aug 18, 2009)

Hi Jenn - I have a 9mo dd and I'm not sure that this would work with her, but I thought I'd throw out the idea just in case. When she shows signs of sleepiness at 7 or so, could you put her in a sling or a back carrier and just keep her with you for an hour or two so you could eat dinner and get a few things done?

We just recently started putting dd to bed earlier too, and it was really hard. I cried and felt so much frustration at being stuck in bed not being able to get back up. It went on for literally weeks. I would feel so much anger at my dh for being able to go about his business downstairs while I fought a battle with my completely oblivious dd. I also felt horrible for resenting her.







What I finally realized was my frustration was showing in my body language and making the battle longer and harder. I was trying over and over to unlatch her and sneak out of bed when what I really needed to do was chill for a while and let my body relax against her. THEN she would finally fall asleep hard enough for me to sneak away. Now every night before I put dd to bed, dh goes into the room before me, turns the fan on for white noise, drapes a lamp so there's enough dim light to read by, and puts my book by my pillow. I nurse dd to sleep standing up (yep. it's a PITA.), then ease into bed with her. I read my book while she nurses for a while longer and *most* nights, I get get back up within 15 minutes. My relaxation was the key that was missing at the beginning. That and getting her used to the routine.

Of course, she usually wakes up again 30 minutes later...







But dh can get her back to sleep pretty easily (much more easily than me).


----------



## ASusan (Jun 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruby2* 
Hi Jenn - I have a 9mo dd and I'm not sure that this would work with her, but I thought I'd throw out the idea just in case. When she shows signs of sleepiness at 7 or so, could you put her in a sling or a back carrier and just keep her with you for an hour or two so you could eat dinner and get a few things done?

We just recently started putting dd to bed earlier too, and it was really hard. I cried and felt so much frustration at being stuck in bed not being able to get back up. It went on for literally weeks. I would feel so much anger at my dh for being able to go about his business downstairs while I fought a battle with my completely oblivious dd. I also felt horrible for resenting her.







What I finally realized was my frustration was showing in my body language and making the battle longer and harder. I was trying over and over to unlatch her and sneak out of bed when what I really needed to do was chill for a while and let my body relax against her. THEN she would finally fall asleep hard enough for me to sneak away. Now every night before I put dd to bed, dh goes into the room before me, turns the fan on for white noise, drapes a lamp so there's enough dim light to read by, and puts my book by my pillow. I nurse dd to sleep standing up (yep. it's a PITA.), then ease into bed with her. I read my book while she nurses for a while longer and *most* nights, I get get back up within 15 minutes. My relaxation was the key that was missing at the beginning. That and getting her used to the routine.

Of course, she usually wakes up again 30 minutes later...







*But dh can get her back to sleep pretty easily (much more easily than me)*.

I/we have had similar dynamics in our house, even down to the fact that DS goes back to sleep easier for DH than for me.. DS settles better with DH, because once he reads stories and listens to a song or 2, he's done. DH relaxes completely with his Ipod and ignores DS completely (while still lying on the bed with him as he goes to sleep). Most nights, DS lobbies hard for ME to put him to bed, because he (intuitively) knows that he can stay up longer when I do it. I cannot relax and just let DS *be,* and DS knows it so it jazzes him up even more. Time when my sister calls, however, and I chat with her on the phone (lying in the dark with DS on his bed), DS relaxes, too and just goes to sleep. I used to think it was about the lull of my voice, but now, even when I know DS can understand most of the conversation, it still works most of the time.


----------



## clemrose (Dec 20, 2006)

It sounds like you have gotten some good suggestions, so I'll only make one...swaddle that babe!

I know it might seem crazy to swaddle a baby that old but we had to start reswaddling our dd (now 3.5) at around that age and our son (a year next week) is still swaddled. If we didn't swaddle him to go to bed he would wake up and crawl around. He doesn't sleep through but swaddling will get him to sleep for 1.5-2 hr stretches.

A lot of babies can get out of the standard swaddle so I'll tell you what we do...it might sound mean but my son stops crying and is calmed by it...

We swaddle his arms in a big muslin swaddling blanket then wrap a stretchy piece of fabric around his torso several times and pin it in place. The piece of fabric we have is about three feet long, but sometimes we've used a piece cut from the bottom of a stretchy t-shirt.

If he's moving his legs around too much then we put both legs in one leg of a pair of his pants to keep them calm.

This might seem extreme but he will move EVERY SINGLE LIMB all night long and be half awake the whole time.

Anyway, the swaddling makes it easier for him to fall asleep, stay asleep and means that he doesn't startle when I move (like to get off the bed and sneak out of the room!)

Good luck! We've had sleep issues from day 1 w/ DD -- I know how it feels!


----------



## aleatha5 (Dec 27, 2008)

I'm going to go the other way. I'm a WOHM too, so I know what it feels like to have zero free time. Literally, I haven't even signed on to MDC in over 2 weeks. My DS was/is the same (he's 13 months now). He is just a nightowl. I find that if I wake him at 8 a.m. or so and keep his naps to under 2 hours before 4, I can get him to bed by 10 at the latest. But I have to be diligent, because he is a nightowl.

One thing that I have learned helps me is to just let him do his thing. He tires himself out eventually. If I try to make him go to sleep at a certain time, he doesn't, and then we are both cranky. If I let him play until he starts his eye rubbing, I can get him to sleep within 10 minutes. Therefore, my battle strategy is, wake him up early, limit naps, and then let him play to tire himself out. If I consistently wake him at 8 he will go to bed by 9 most of the time.

I asked my doctor about that "they need sleep and aren't getting it" line. And he said that some babies just aren't sleepers. He had 4 and none of them were sleepers he said (poor guy!). He said, "trust me, he'll fall asleep if he is tired." And he does, it just isn't always when _I_ want him to be tired, kwim? Which makes sense, I can't fall asleep at some arbitrary time that someone else says is bedtime either.


----------



## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

Have you tried an exericise ball. DS always nursed to sleep but DD doesn't. I pop her in the sling, bounce on the ball, and that helps a lot. At least if feels active...


----------



## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

Ruby2 makes a really good point about relaxing. When my dd was little, if I started stressing about how long it was taking or tried to pull the boob out of her mouth too soon, it was always a disaster. So I started to think of that time of night as my meditation time. I'd lay next to her nursing, but I'd focus on my breath and relaxing my body. Sometimes I'd focus on how each part of my body felt as a relaxed them. Sometimes I'd focus on all the sounds I could hear. Before I knew it I'd be out.

8 months is also about the time that I decided Daddy needed to take a bigger role in the bedtime routine. I'm in the camp though that says that its not CIO if the baby is with a loving caregiver, no matter how much crying they're doing. Yes crying alone can be stressful, but crying is a form of communication. It is natural for a baby to cry because she's saying "hey I thought mommy was the one who helped me go to sleep, this is different, I'm not sure how to do this" With the support of Daddy or another loving caregiver, its an opportunity for the baby to learn that even when she's sad, she can get past it, the world doesn't end. I think its also good for Daddy to be given the space to learn how to comfort baby as well. With my dd I would nurse her out in the living room, then Daddy would take her into our room and read her a story and the put on a lullabye cd and then lay down in the bed next to her. The first week or so she cried, but eventually she got used to it. She actually started to fall asleep better for Daddy then for me. The other benefit was that once she could fall asleep with Daddy she was also able to be comforted by him and fall back asleep. So even though she would wake up frequently after falling asleep my DH was able to deal with the wake-ups from 8:00 until around 11 when I went to bed. After that I would nurse her through-out the night.


----------



## Tattooed Hand (Mar 31, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruby2* 
Hi Jenn - I have a 9mo dd and I'm not sure that this would work with her, but I thought I'd throw out the idea just in case. When she shows signs of sleepiness at 7 or so, could you put her in a sling or a back carrier and just keep her with you for an hour or two so you could eat dinner and get a few things done?

We just recently started putting dd to bed earlier too, and it was really hard. I cried and felt so much frustration at being stuck in bed not being able to get back up. It went on for literally weeks. I would feel so much anger at my dh for being able to go about his business downstairs while I fought a battle with my completely oblivious dd. I also felt horrible for resenting her.







What I finally realized was my frustration was showing in my body language and making the battle longer and harder. I was trying over and over to unlatch her and sneak out of bed when what I really needed to do was chill for a while and let my body relax against her. THEN she would finally fall asleep hard enough for me to sneak away. Now every night before I put dd to bed, dh goes into the room before me, turns the fan on for white noise, drapes a lamp so there's enough dim light to read by, and puts my book by my pillow. I nurse dd to sleep standing up (yep. it's a PITA.), then ease into bed with her. I read my book while she nurses for a while longer and *most* nights, I get get back up within 15 minutes. My relaxation was the key that was missing at the beginning. That and getting her used to the routine.

Of course, she usually wakes up again 30 minutes later...







But dh can get her back to sleep pretty easily (much more easily than me).

I'm at the point of being trapped in bed from 7pm onward for hours and being resentful about it - how does your DH get your DD back to sleep?

I'm trying to get DD on a schedule - we're on day 5 of that and so far I just spend all day trying to get her to sleep. And she still wakes up every 1-2 hours all night.


----------



## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

It sounds like she is just not ready for bed until 10. What time is she up for the day in the morning? What time is her last nap?

I would stop trying to get her to sleep at 7. Wear her in a carrier and eat dinner/go about your evening if she seems to need a lot of contact during those hours. Or nurse her on the couch or at the dinner table if she wants to nurse. Is she eating any solids yet? Have dinner together as a family, and give her some food to play with in a highchair if she is content to do that.








8 months was the worst time for sleep for us, and it got a LOT better around 10 months. Still wasn't good (he went from waking every 15-30 minutes at 8 months to only waking every hour at 10 months) but it was bearable.


----------



## marinak1977 (Feb 24, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
It sounds like she is just not ready for bed until 10. What time is she up for the day in the morning? What time is her last nap?

I would stop trying to get her to sleep at 7. Wear her in a carrier and eat dinner/go about your evening if she seems to need a lot of contact during those hours. Or nurse her on the couch or at the dinner table if she wants to nurse. Is she eating any solids yet? Have dinner together as a family, and give her some food to play with in a highchair if she is content to do that.








8 months was the worst time for sleep for us, and it got a LOT better around 10 months. Still wasn't good (he went from waking every 15-30 minutes at 8 months to only waking every hour at 10 months) but it was bearable.

I agree with this, my DS does/used to do the same thing, where he would nurse down then wake up and want to play. After I started trying to get him to sleep at 8:30ish or so things got better. He no longer wakes up and wants to play after he's down, but he still sometimes needs me to come up and re-nurse him to sleep (he is a reverse cycler). I also take my computer to bed so I can browse (or work if I feel so inclined). Sometimes we still eat dinner at 10:30, but it has gotten easier. The biggest relief for me however, was to change my personal attitude about the process. Instead of thinking about the things I needed to be doing, I started focusing on snuggling with my little one and enjoying the cuddles, and making that my priority. It really made me less stressed about the process.







Hope your routine gets better soon.


----------



## llwr (Feb 24, 2009)

My girls aren't great sleepers either, though better than many of those who posted.

When things are bad, what helps both of us the most is to focus on how little and sweet they are and just enjoy it. The frustration of it all is the worst part for me and also just makes it harder for them to sleep. It can be really hard to do; sometimes I even go for distraction (see how many words I can make up from the title of a book I can see), or try to go to sleep myself.

Good luck.


----------



## MamaChef (Aug 28, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *junipermuse* 
8 months is also about the time that I decided Daddy needed to take a bigger role in the bedtime routine. I'm in the camp though that says that its not CIO if the baby is with a loving caregiver, no matter how much crying they're doing. Yes crying alone can be stressful, but crying is a form of communication. It is natural for a baby to cry because she's saying "hey I thought mommy was the one who helped me go to sleep, this is different, I'm not sure how to do this" With the support of Daddy or another loving caregiver, its an opportunity for the baby to learn that even when she's sad, she can get past it, the world doesn't end. I think its also good for Daddy to be given the space to learn how to comfort baby as well. With my dd I would nurse her out in the living room, then Daddy would take her into our room and read her a story and the put on a lullabye cd and then lay down in the bed next to her. The first week or so she cried, but eventually she got used to it. She actually started to fall asleep better for Daddy then for me. The other benefit was that once she could fall asleep with Daddy she was also able to be comforted by him and fall back asleep. So even though she would wake up frequently after falling asleep my DH was able to deal with the wake-ups from 8:00 until around 11 when I went to bed. After that I would nurse her through-out the night.

I would definitely try shifting the bedtime to later 8 or even later.. come home, breathe.. eat dinner.. when you arent running on a full day of work and a grumbly stomach sometimes you bring a different energy to the whole thing.. Or, have DH put baby down while you make dinner. Baby will not like it at first.. but I totally agree with the post above. I dont believe it is CIO if there is someone there to comfort baby. I will let my husband participate in alot more of that with this second baby. It took me till 16 months with this one and I was half crazy from sleep deprivation and being completely touched out.

Sleep is so important to me and I need my kids to cooperate with that so I have something to give them. Lack of sleep and stress really leads me to be a miserable zombie Mom.. or an angry mom, impatient and upset those 3 hours it takes to get baby down.

I wish you luck.


----------



## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Ugh, btdt.









Until about 14 months, we had some success with a weighted blanket and a heavy arm (and leg) over DD to calm her limbs and help her relax. Now at 19 months, I don't have the energy (or strength) to fight with her for hours each night. So I gave up the expectation that my child should have a reasonable bedtime. It's just not for her. All the negativity and frustration in getting her to bed just wasn't worth it.

I think *junipermuse* has good ideas. Also want to second a later bedtime (just try it for a week or two). Good luck!


----------



## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *justKate* 
So I gave up the expectation that my child should have a reasonable bedtime. It's just not for her. All the negativity and frustration in getting her to bed just wasn't worth it.


----------



## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

I second letting your baby get a little more tired before trying. Try not to compare to your friends. Also, my babies got used to my DH putting them to sleep by jiggling etc and that really helped me out. They then sleep on him until bed-time and then I go to bed and nurse to help settle. Just making the point that we have done things "all wrong" too and everyone of them so far has started settling in their own bed and sleeping through the night (mostly) just after 2 years of age. It all comes out the same in the end (except in cases where CIO is used in an extreme manner- then I think kids can develop problems)


----------



## paxye (Mar 31, 2005)

I am a big believer in no set bedtime, especially for babies... but instead watching the baby (who coincidently often fall asleep around the same time every night)... for us that meant that there was no stress about when my kids "should" be sleeping, no tears for them and enough sleep for every one.

3 hours of trying to get a baby to sleep most likely mean that baby is not tired at that moment... so I would get up, eat, do my thing and then try again when baby has tired cues again...

I think the more stress you put around sleep, the more problems it will lead to.

With my four kids, I have given a bath and then let them play quietly while I did whatever I had/wanted to do and then nursed them to sleep in the living room when I saw they were getting tired. If I wasn't ready for bed yet, I would try to put them down on the couch or somewhere near me until I headed for bed and then I would bring to bed with me...


----------



## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

At 8 months i didn't put ds to sleep. I just let him fall asleep when he was ready...so like i'd be nursing him on my lap watching tv or reading or something and then he'd eventually fall asleep... I didn't even *think* about "bedtime"

Maybe you are just overthinking the whole thing? I mean the kid will fall asleep eventually right? I don't think every kid needs a perfect routine especially not at the infant stage.


----------



## Tway (Jul 1, 2010)

We gave up the attempt at a "proper" bedtime at about 9-10 months and decided to put DD down at 9 o'clock. So instead of shushing and rocking and praying and getting mad for an hour, it now takes about 10-15 minutes to get her down. We start the routine at 8, with bath, change, book, nurse, and kisses, and DH brings her into the room to unwind at about 8:45. She's almost always out by 9.

And yes, DH took over the putting to bed at around 8 months, which saved my sanity. I'll do it when he's out, but he now considers bedtime "his" duty and enjoys the cuddles with DD.

Our nights are in no way perfect--and sometimes they're outrageously frustrating--but bedtime seems to be working out for us pretty well, at long last.


----------



## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 

Maybe you are just overthinking the whole thing? I mean the kid will fall asleep eventually right? I don't think every kid needs a perfect routine especially not at the infant stage.

I just wanted to say that if someone had said this to me when my daughter was little I would have cried. My daughter even at 3 doesn't just fall asleep when tired. She gets more wound up the more tired she gets. Yes eventually she would pass out, but only after screaming and crying for hours in our arms. If she doesn't have dark and quiet she WILL NOT SLEEP. She could seriously go on and on for hours. And honestly if she would have ever slept past 6 am I would have been fine with her staying up until she passed out, but no matter what time she went to bed she always woke up super early, so absolutely she needed to have a bed time or she would have been a cranky crying screaming mess all the time. I kind of think telling a mom that she's overthinking the sleep issue is kind of the crunchy parent equivalent of telling a mom that if she just C'dIO, all her kids sleep issues would be solved. The truth of the matter is some kids are good sleepers and some aren't. The parents of good-sleepers tend to think that whatever they did worked great so why doesn't everybody do it.

I hope that doesn't come off as snarky. I'm still reeling from a long weekend with my kids visiting family where my dad kept accusing me of being anal about my kids sleep schedule and attempting to sabotage my efforts to get my kids (especially my dd) to fall asleep at a reasonable time. He just kept saying I should let it go because she would fall asleep eventually. As a result my dd stayed awake until between 10 and midnight every night (while still waking up at 6) for 3 days straight and I was left with a kid who was so exhausted she melted down at every turn. But in my experience there are definitely kids who will not get enough sleep if they are allowed to stay up until they are so tired they pass out.


----------



## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tway* 
We gave up the attempt at a "proper" bedtime at about 9-10 months and decided to put DD down at 9 o'clock. So instead of shushing and rocking and praying and getting mad for an hour, it now takes about 10-15 minutes to get her down. We start the routine at 8, with bath, change, book, nurse, and kisses, and DH brings her into the room to unwind at about 8:45. She's almost always out by 9.

And yes, DH took over the putting to bed at around 8 months, which saved my sanity. I'll do it when he's out, but he now considers bedtime "his" duty and enjoys the cuddles with DD.

Our nights are in no way perfect--and sometimes they're outrageously frustrating--but bedtime seems to be working out for us pretty well, at long last.

I think this is really good advice. While I believe that having a bedtime may be important for kids, not all kids really need that text-book 7pm bedtime. We found with our dd that 8:30 was the perfect bedtime for her when she was that age. Of course around 2 when she gave up naps her bed timed moved up to an earlier time, but before that she did better with a later schedule.


----------



## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *junipermuse* 
I just wanted to say that if someone had said this to me when my daughter was little I would have cried. My daughter even at 3 doesn't just fall asleep when tired. She gets more wound up the more tired she gets. Yes eventually she would pass out, but only after screaming and crying for hours in our arms. If she doesn't have dark and quiet she WILL NOT SLEEP. She could seriously go on and on for hours. And honestly if she would have ever slept past 6 am I would have been fine with her staying up until she passed out, but no matter what time she went to bed she always woke up super early, so absolutely she needed to have a bed time or she would have been a cranky crying screaming mess all the time. I kind of think telling a mom that she's overthinking the sleep issue is kind of the crunchy parent equivalent of telling a mom that if she just C'dIO, all her kids sleep issues would be solved. The truth of the matter is some kids are good sleepers and some aren't. The parents of good-sleepers tend to think that whatever they did worked great so why doesn't everybody do it.

I hope that doesn't come off as snarky. I'm still reeling from a long weekend with my kids visiting family where my dad kept accusing me of being anal about my kids sleep schedule and attempting to sabotage my efforts to get my kids (especially my dd) to fall asleep at a reasonable time. He just kept saying I should let it go because she would fall asleep eventually. As a result my dd stayed awake until between 10 and midnight every night (while still waking up at 6) for 3 days straight and I was left with a kid who was so exhausted she melted down at every turn. But in my experience there are definitely kids who will not get enough sleep if they are allowed to stay up until they are so tired they pass out.

My DS is the same way, needs dark and quiet and to be "made" to go to sleep. He never would just "fall asleep when tired." But if he OP is spending 3 hours IN the dark/quiet to get her DD to sleep, and she isn't falling asleep until 10:00 each night, that is probably a good sign she is not ready for sleep until much later than 7.


----------



## paxye (Mar 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *junipermuse* 
I just wanted to say that if someone had said this to me when my daughter was little I would have cried. My daughter even at 3 doesn't just fall asleep when tired. She gets more wound up the more tired she gets. Yes eventually she would pass out, but only after screaming and crying for hours in our arms. If she doesn't have dark and quiet she WILL NOT SLEEP. She could seriously go on and on for hours. And honestly if she would have ever slept past 6 am I would have been fine with her staying up until she passed out, but no matter what time she went to bed she always woke up super early, so absolutely she needed to have a bed time or she would have been a cranky crying screaming mess all the time. I kind of think telling a mom that she's overthinking the sleep issue is kind of the crunchy parent equivalent of telling a mom that if she just C'dIO, all her kids sleep issues would be solved. The truth of the matter is some kids are good sleepers and some aren't. The parents of good-sleepers tend to think that whatever they did worked great so why doesn't everybody do it.

I hope that doesn't come off as snarky. I'm still reeling from a long weekend with my kids visiting family where my dad kept accusing me of being anal about my kids sleep schedule and attempting to sabotage my efforts to get my kids (especially my dd) to fall asleep at a reasonable time. He just kept saying I should let it go because she would fall asleep eventually. As a result my dd stayed awake until between 10 and midnight every night (while still waking up at 6) for 3 days straight and I was left with a kid who was so exhausted she melted down at every turn. But in my experience there are definitely kids who will not get enough sleep if they are allowed to stay up until they are so tired they pass out.


Well, I wish that someone would have said it to me when my first was a baby... I was listening to all the advice of bedtime and had expectations around sleep etc and it caused so many problems and I didn't even CIO, I did however do what the OP did, or tried to have DH take over when he wanted to nurse.... (and I did think that CIO has the same effects when someone is next to them) My DS hated to going to sleep because it was always a negative experience and he fought it and we still have repercussions because of it...

Things got better when I stopped having those expectations, when I started to watch him instead of a clock, when I no longer stressed about when he was going to sleep... I also realized that he fell into his own rhythm after a while and when I followed him he wasn't going to sleep much much later than I was trying before, not only that but he would fall asleep quickly with no tears or anxiety and slept much better... but it did take an adjustment period because he was still fighting because that is what I taught him even if I was meaning well...

So yeah... I wish someone would have told me... luckily my other three have never had to go through that...


----------



## jee'smom (Mar 17, 2004)

i'm with the others who say that "she's probably just not ready to go to bed yet." if you are spending between 7 and 10 trying to get her to sleep, why not just put her to bed at 10pm? Watch your child closely... get to know your child for them... what are their patterns? how does tweaking their schedule work for them? you may find that it's easier on everybody if you try to follow their natural rhythms. you can always slowly push them into how you'd rather them to be. (my dd1 had a natural body rhythm of a night-owl, but that didn't suit me, so i let her follow her own rhythm for about a month, then slowly started making the bedtime earlier and earlier to fit my schedule. it took months, but was so worth it!)

i realized one day that if my dd2 skipped naps, she mostly slept through the night, so i started trying to get her use to not napping, so she wasn't up every 2 hours all night long. she was about 2yo at that point though.

good luck!


----------



## llwr (Feb 24, 2009)

I wanted to clarify me earlier post a bit.

I do think it's really important to be happy and relaxed about the whole thing, but that's not the end of the story. It doesn't mean that it's ok to be held hostage by your baby. It sounds like your situation is falling into the "needing to fill your own cup" category.

I think you have some good suggestions -- having someone else try, putting her in a backpack after she wakes so you can do your thing for a bit, experimenting with different bedtimes.

If baby cries with DH or with you if you decide that nursing when she doesn't need to eat just isn't working for you, I don't think that's CIO. Lots of family members have needs and we just do the best we can to meet as many of them as possible.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

definitely get back to us on the waking and nap times.

For my son his 7pm bedtime magically began when he was 3 months. For my daughter it wasn't until 6 months. An early bedtime is very, very important to me (probably the most important part of infant sleep to me) but they really just weren't 'there' until those ages.

So yours is a little older but if she's 'awake' when she wakes up then pending your answers about the naps it might just be where she's at, developmentally.

OTOH a late nap might be throwing you off. So do let us know and see if we can help out from there.

Deirdre


----------



## MamieCole (Jun 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *justKate* 
Ugh, btdt.









Until about 14 months, we had some success with a weighted blanket and a heavy arm (and leg) over DD to calm her limbs and help her relax. Now at 19 months, I don't have the energy (or strength) to fight with her for hours each night. So I gave up the expectation that my child should have a reasonable bedtime. It's just not for her. All the negativity and frustration in getting her to bed just wasn't worth it.

I think *junipermuse* has good ideas. Also want to second a later bedtime (just try it for a week or two). Good luck!

Great advice!


----------



## Tattooed Hand (Mar 31, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paxye* 

3 hours of trying to get a baby to sleep most likely mean that baby is not tired at that moment... so I would get up, eat, do my thing and then try again when baby has tired cues again...

I would like to disagree with this, just based on my experience. We used to spend HOURS putting DD to bed (who is only 9.5 months). We're at the end of week 2 of a schedule and lo and behold she has been going to bed pretty easily the last 5 nights...at 6:30 PM (she was going to bed at 9-10pm). She still wakes up between 6-7 and naps a little less during the day (2-2.5 hours a day total) but she goes down much easier. I think she was WAY too over tired to sleep. Have you tried putting her down even earlier?


----------



## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
My DS is the same way, needs dark and quiet and to be "made" to go to sleep. He never would just "fall asleep when tired." But if he OP is spending 3 hours IN the dark/quiet to get her DD to sleep, and she isn't falling asleep until 10:00 each night, that is probably a good sign she is not ready for sleep until much later than 7.

I totally agree that she probably would benefit from waiting until later to put her baby to bed. I think I even posted (either in my first or second post) that it really helped for us to try to put dd down later than the books recommended. We knew tons of people who rushed right home to put their babies to sleep by 7 and we usually put dd down around 8:30 or 9. But that's not the same as not overthinking it. If a child is a poor sleeper, it may take more effort to put them to sleep, and you may have to think about things that parents of good sleepers don't have to think of. Saying "don't overthink it" sounds to me like, "don't TRY to get your child to fall asleep, and eventually they just will." It basically seems like saying to the parent that its their fault that the child isn't sleeping because they're trying too hard.


----------



## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paxye* 
Well, I wish that someone would have said it to me when my first was a baby... I was listening to all the advice of bedtime and had expectations around sleep etc and it caused so many problems and I didn't even CIO, I did however do what the OP did, or tried to have DH take over when he wanted to nurse.... (and I did think that CIO has the same effects when someone is next to them) My DS hated to going to sleep because it was always a negative experience and he fought it and we still have repercussions because of it...

Things got better when I stopped having those expectations, when I started to watch him instead of a clock, when I no longer stressed about when he was going to sleep... I also realized that he fell into his own rhythm after a while and when I followed him he wasn't going to sleep much much later than I was trying before, not only that but he would fall asleep quickly with no tears or anxiety and slept much better... but it did take an adjustment period because he was still fighting because that is what I taught him even if I was meaning well...

So yeah... I wish someone would have told me... luckily my other three have never had to go through that...

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that she shouldn't watch her baby for cues or wait until later at night to put the baby down so she's more tired, I just don't take these to mean the same as "don't overthink it." my point is that with very spirited babies like mine, their self-regulation abilities may be so bad that you can't just relax and let them "sleep when they sleep" because they might end up crying grouchy messes everyday from only sleeping 6 hours a night. That's not to say that staying relaxed doesn't help (because it definitely is super important) and of course one should follow a baby's cues, but I think with babies who are "bad-sleepers" you often need to spend a lot of time and energy trying lots of different things until you find something that works and frankly that does require a lot of thought.


----------

