# Newborn very fussy and not latching!



## m&b (Apr 23, 2006)

Hey everyone,

My wife and I are very new here, but we like alot of things the Mothering magazine talks about!

Alright let me cut to the chase...
We just had our wonderful daughter born 4 days ago and everything is beautiful, exept for the breastfeeding and crying








My wife has "flattish" nipples and our baby isn't latching. Basically she cries even if she's changed and fed (my wife pumps and we finger feed her with a dropper. we don't use *any* pacifiers or any bottes!). Every time we try and put her to the breast she curles away and cries hear head off!

What we're doing now is just giving her lots of skin to skin with mom and having her find the breast on her own when she's not necessarily needing to feed (getting her comfortable with the breast, rather than just trying to get her to latch only when she's hungry). She seems to latch for about 2-3 suckles and then lets go, so there seems to be progress.

Also we're told that newborns just cry, so the fact that newborns cry alot about seemingly nothing is normal, right? I know it's not colic because she doesn't cry for ridiculous amounts of time. Oh yeah, when she does cry, she cries like someone's murdering her! It kills me to hear her like that, she thrashes and turns red and runs out of air and coughs. She just did that now when I changed her diaper (it pretty much always happens like this during diaper changing!)

Anyone have any ideas on how we can get her to latch? Will she eventually breastfeed? Are newborns (couple days old) supposed to be crying alot...does it eventually stop?

Thanks in advance!
m&b


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## krizty (Dec 31, 2005)

Congrats! I would have her stand in front of the freezer so her nipples are hard. That helped dd learn to find the nipple better.

Newborns dont just cry. They usually only cry when something is wrong. Maybe she is uncomfortable. Try a few positions to see which one works best.


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Are you in touch with a lactation consultant? The one at the hospital where I delivered basically saved my BFing relationship time and time again! It is really worth having a professional or an experienced BFing mom watch your babe feed and give you some advice.


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Are you in touch with a lactation consultant? The one at the hospital where I delivered basically saved my BFing relationship time and time again! It is really worth having a professional or an experienced BFing mom watch your babe feed and give you some advice.

Most newborns cry at diaper changes. I was told newborns feel like their diapers and clothes are part of their body. Their attitude is, "Mommy, why are you taking my skin off?" Putting a washcloth or piece of clothing over their tummies while they are naked can calm them down. My DD always cried at diaper changes at first, then at a few weeks old she suddenly decided she enjoyed it.

I'm not sure about the other crying, but maybe it comes from the insecurity of the feeding process at this point...?


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## turtlemama77 (Jul 29, 2005)

I have flattish nipples too, and it helped me to make a "sandwich" with my breast between my fingers and thumb. This gave baby something to latch onto. It also helped to not wait too long between each feeding. I found that if I waited for dd to show more than one cue for feeding, she was so upset that she had trouble latching on. If there's any rooting, fish chewing, or mouthing motions, I would put her to the breast. If she's not interested, you'll know!

Definitely get some in person support help ASAP! Have you tried LLL (www.lalecheleague.org) in your area? Give a leader a call, or else find a lactation consultant. Your hospital should have info about this.

Please hang in there! The first few weeks were the hardest for us, but it did get easier from there.


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

I agree, please get some help from La Leche League (the website will tell you if you have a leader in your area) or a lactation consultant (which hopefully is at your hospital or the OB department can tell you how to contact one). They will really be able to help you get started! I agree with the PP's advice to try to feed sooner before the baby cries (crying is a LATE hunger sign) and to try making a "nipple sandwich" so your baby has something to latch on to. Sometimes right as Mom's milk is coming in, it's hard for the baby to latch on. Expressing/pumping off some milk will soften the breasts and make it easier.

Please do keep on with the skin to skin contact. May I ask what type of birth she had? Was there an epidural or an IV, or a c-section? These types of interventions can make it more difficult for a newborn to nurse, but it is definitely not impossible!


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## BCmamaof6 (Sep 7, 2004)

Pumping with an electic breast pump, using nipple shields (to give the baby something to suck on & to draw the nipple out) & breast shells (wore inside the bra between feedings to help to draw the nipple out) may all help a bit.
I would definately recommend that you contact a lactation consultant & your local LLL leader also. They will have more advice. A friend just went thru the same thing a few months ago & the above suggestions worked! Best of luck!


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## joyfilledmomma (Mar 14, 2006)

since one previous poster asked what your birth was like i just wanted to mention that we had a completely gentle natural midwife assisted birth and i still had a lot of trouble getting dd to latch so it can happen to anyone...

your story sounds almost exactly like ours! i would pump every 2 hours including through the night and dh and i would spoonfeed dd. i would echo all of the previous posters who suggested to get in touch with a lactation consultant...she came to our home and helped us so much.

some things she suggested were:

1. i had to pump every 2 hours for 15-20 minutes so that i would not lose my milk supply. (we bought a medela pump in style so i could double pump and not lose my mind with the hand pump!)

2. pump a little before trying to feed dd to pull my nipples out and wear breast shells (these helped a lot!) to pull my nipples out

3. use a nipple shield to try to get dd to latch (this did not help at all even with the lactation consultant's help...dd hated it!)

4. lots of skin to skin contact (like you already mentioned)

dd also hated having her diaper changed or clothes taken off and screamed when we tried to give her a bath for the first time, so i don't think that this is all that unusual.

well, hang in there mommy and daddy...our dd is 4 months old now and i love breastfeeding! the first month was sooo rough, but i'm so happy that we stuck with it.

p.s. some may disagree with this, but we did "have to" give dd a bottle since our pediatrician was freaking out about how much weight that she lost and wanted to give her formula. i figured it was better for her to have a bottle of my pumped milk than to risk hospitalization (she was quite jaundiced too) i still cried and cried because i was afraid she was never going to breastfeed. happily she never had any nipple confusion and the one bottle (that's all she ever had!







) seemed to give her enough energy to latch on.


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## RockStarMom (Sep 11, 2005)

When my daughter was a newborn she would pull off the breast if she had to burp, and sometimes it would take a good 10 minutes of burping her to get one out, and then she would latch on and stay on. Sorry if that's so obvious but it took me a couple days to figure it out so I just wanted to mention it. My newborn didn't cry much- the only other reasons for her would be if she was too hot or couldn't latch on in whatever position we were in. Congratulations and good luck!


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## m&b (Apr 23, 2006)

Wow! Thank you all for those awesome replies!!!









We're going to contact the LLL and see what happens this week hopefully. The lactation consultant from the hospital wasn't very helpful at all unfortunately...her suggestions made my wifes breasts engourged and made the baby hungry...so we went with our instincts and now her breasts produce a ton of milk but without engourgments, and our baby doesn't cry because of hunger









As far as the birth...
The birth was amazing! It was in the hospital, and because my wife apparently tested positive for GBS they wanted to keep her safe so she got a penicillin IV







. The other thing she also got was oxitocin through IV to help get the labour going because her water broke the day before and they were worried about the GBS infection, but....we asked for the lowest possible dose, and....

Much to our content, they turned it off pretty quick because her contractions kicked in (we think naturally!) really fast. In turn, her labour was 45 mins and the pushing took another 45 mins! What a blessing for a first time mom!







Oh yeah, we didn't want an epidural. Actually, after the birth, my wife really wondered why anyone would be wimpy enough to need one







She said it wasn't nearly as bad as they say it is!

joyfilledmomma:

It's really encouraging to know you had the same experience with positive results, we'll try everything you said! Can I ask how long it took before your little one started to latch fully?

Thank you all, and I'll keep you posted!
M&B


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## Attached Mama (Dec 4, 2005)

I'd run out to the store tonite and get a nipple shield. DD didn't latch on and we pumped for the first 2 wks straight and used a finger feeder. I also refused to give her a bottle. Finally a lactation consultant (we had 3 and it was nice to have so much advice and take what worked and leave the rest) told us about nipple shields. It's a silicone nipple that is placed over mom's and it just sticks to the breast. For us, DD wouldn't take enough nipple/areola in her mouth so this forced her to open her mouth wider. She was fine with it and learned to open her mouth wide enough to latch onto the breast. At 6 wks I stopped using it during the day and around 8 wks stopped using it at night. Just a word of advice, don't get the small one because it can pinch and it's better to have the larger (i think they call it average) size one because it helps the baby open their mouth wider.

Congratulations!!! Best of Luck! Hang in there and it will all work itself out it time. I found the most important thing was to just take it day by day and be like "ok this is what DD needs right now" and to not get stressed over it. Just because it isn't ideal doesn't mean it's not good. Your baby is getting mama milk and that's the most important thing. just find what works to eventually get her on the breast and don't fret about how long it takes or let others pressure you. Keep enjoying your new baby and that she's getting breastmilk.
FWIW


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## m&b (Apr 23, 2006)

We were given another suggestion...

To try and refrain from using any nipple shields or breast pumps and just try and latch her on without feeding her in any other way (since she won't starve if we just do this for 24 hours or so). The only problem is this:

She'll be calm and fine, and as soon as my wife puts her to the breast she starts to cry. And now she's hungry and crying like crazy! Should we just keep giving her the breast and hope she latches? How do you get a baby to latch if she's hungry and crying?

Thanks,
M&B


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## joyfilledmomma (Mar 14, 2006)

we spoonfed dd for 2 weeks (and tried to get her to latch at each feeding) before finally giving her a bottle (like i mentioned before at our pediatrician's demand). like i said before in my opinion the one bottle of pumped breastmilk actually gave her energy to work on latching, plus I had been using breast shells to pull my nipples out...that's just what worked for her...

it took about a month before dd would latch fully and correctly. by the end of the 2 weeks she was getting enough to eat without spoon feeding, but i still had to work to get her to latch before each feeding...

i would think that letting the baby get too hungry would just make things more difficult b/c if she's screaming mom is going to get stressed and tense (at least I would!







babies can really feel that stress from mom (at least my dd always does!) our lactation consultant actually recommended giving her a few spoonfuls of breastmilk before we tried latching so she wasn't ravenous..this seemed to help, but again, different people will tell you different things!







again, good luck and it WILL get better! enjoy your little one!


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## grace's voice (May 12, 2005)

Have you taken her to a Chiroptactor yet? Chiro care is essential as soon as possible after birth. My dd wouldn't have been able to nurse without it... she could not open her mouth enough to latch properly and it was painful for her, this is more common than people realize. It is caused by pressure on the head and neck during the birth process, even cesarean babies suffer spinal subluxations. Chiro care will also solve most any digestive issues she may be having as well.


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## mamatoady (Mar 16, 2004)

just a thought (because this happened with my dd)but make sure your wife isn't holding the back of your baby's head (neck is OK) when she nurses because it triggers a choking reflex and baby will freak out and cry/flinch back.

sarah


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## Usually Curious (Apr 26, 2006)

You could try latching her on while she has just gone to sleep or just rousing. That is what saved me with two of my babes.


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## hairpin (Aug 28, 2005)

I am having problems too with my one week old and have flatish nipples but things seem to be improving. I use the nipple shields, which are great when my baby is too sleepy to find the nipple. Sometimes it's really hard to wake him. As well it does help draw the nipple out. And I try to take it off after 3 minutes if I can.

I've bought the breast shells, but I'm not really sure if they're working or not. They do help with the pain, as nothing is rubbing against the nipples. And I don't have to use Lanisoh anymore. But it doesn't really seem to be drawing the nipple out. Is this just something that happens over a long period of time?

Also a silly question. Will my nipples get longer over time due to the effects from nursing? I'm kind of hoping that everytime the baby latches on effectively and nurses for a long time, that my nipple will become more naturally shaped to his mouth and more inclinced to stay that way for the next nursing. What's your opinon? I'm pretty desperate to get him to be able to latch on everytime without a shield.


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## m&b (Apr 23, 2006)

Hey guys!!!

Good news!








Yesterday she started to nurse with the nipple shield! Yay!
It's hard to get her started on it still but with a little finger help she eventually latches on and stays on for 15mins - 3 hours









Now a couple problems...
Firstly, my wife has super sensitive nipples, to the point where she'd flip out if a necklace or something of that sort touched them (all through her life). So I'm very proud of her doing this! She's in pain for the first couple suckes and then eventually takes it. But yesterday after a couple feedings she couldn't take it and we had to finger feed a bit. I'm guessing this is new to her breasts and she'll eventually get used to it right?

Secondly, how the heck are we supposed to remove the shield and get her onto the breast? It's not the same shape, and she still has trouble latching to the real thing!

Thank you all again for the support, as you can see we've got a ton of progress!









Cheers,
M&B


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## grace's voice (May 12, 2005)

You guys are AWESOME! I know how hard this is for your wife... I had a lot of trouble too and have always had very sensitive nipples. For me though the problem was (like I said before) my dd couldn't open her mouth completely to latch right. So I know how your wife feels, every moment of those feedings for the first 3 weeks I had tears running down my cheeks and was digging my toes in to the carpet. The 3 hour feedings we did every night were TORTURE. I seriously don't know how I did it, I guess it was just the motivation to keep formula out of my baby, and the pump hurt even worse so that wasn't a better option. My nipples did heal eventually, but they wouldn't have if the problem had persisted. They have always been sensitive though, as you described. They MAYBE toughened up a tiny bit as time went on. I got used to nursing and it got less painful, but I still couldn't have anything else touch them or go without a bra even to sleep or anything like that. After over 2 years of nursing they went right back to being as sensitive as before, once she weaned, that is. So there is hope. I wish I could offer more suggestions. I don't know much about nipple sheilds. I just kept caking on the Lansinoh, my dd had a shiney greasy face for weeks!








Best of luck to you, congrats, and way to go!!!!


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## hairpin (Aug 28, 2005)

Hey M&B,

I found the nipple shield helps with sensitivity. I feel the pins and needles less when I use it. But then again, I also feel like less milk is coming out when I have it on too.

The pain should get lessened over time. Or maybe your wife will just get used to it...? I've found it's gotten a lot better for me over the week. For pain though, you might want to try the breast shells too (from Medela). I've found it's protective, but not so sure if it's drawing the nipple out any like the shield.

To switch from shields to bare breast, I try letting the baby nurse for about 3 minutes (or whatever you need to help draw out the nipple). I try to be sure that the baby gets a full latch on the shield/nipple as I don't want him to get used to being lazy and not getting a full latch and still getting milk for it. Then when he's lazy for a moment or not nursing, I slip a finger in to break suction and take the shield off. Then I do the sandwich method with the cross-cradle hold to get him to latch on. I was doing the cradle hold before, but find the cross-cradle is easier to get a latch. I try not to touch the back of his head, as I find this keeps him not from latching on. (Someone said it triggers a gag reflex??)

Good luck with it and hang in there.







It's hard work, but things do seem to get better with time.


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## wombat (Nov 3, 2002)

Sounds like you're making progress!!

Re the nipple soreness - as the 'flattish' nipples get drawn out, I've heard the 'adhesions' break down and this can cause pain. It did me - major OUCH. And a newborn learning to latch and probably having a not so great latch just now will probably cause some soreness. If she can hang in there it will get better. That's why they call the first 6 weeks an adjustment time.


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## Attached Mama (Dec 4, 2005)

Congrats! Sounds like things are going much better for you. I'm glad you didn't heed the advice to get the baby on the breast even if they cry and they wont' starve etc

I think the most important thing to remember (as I said before) is to just enjoy this time with your precious baby. It will pass quickly in retrospect. Don't stress about how long the nipple shield will be necessary. If it starts to get stressful, just back off and do what works. The important thing is that your baby is getting the best nutrition in the world!







You'll get there with the "perfect latch on".


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## joyfilledmomma (Mar 14, 2006)

yeah! congrats on your breastfeeding success!







i just wanted to echo the previous posters who said the pain does go away as your nipples come out and you get used to feeding...it took like 4 or so weeks for me...just keep using lanolin and hang in there!


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## m&b (Apr 23, 2006)

Thanks guys!

Just to recap, it's not soreness or cracking or anything of that sort that she's having problems with...she just can't stand having her nipples touched! It's starting to get to her...









Today for example, our baby didn't want to latch on to the shield...both of them tried really hard but it wasn't working. That combined with 3 hours of pooping and crying non stop and the fact that baby was hurting her every time she tried to latch, added to my wife's frustration (a little of a crying breakdown)







So now we're taking a break and fingerfeeding for a bit, and later on today we'll try the breast again.

Also, what's the difference with fingerfeeding and bottle? Wouldn't it be the same if we found a nipple that was the same hardness as the breast? (because I know one of the bottle problems is the fact that it's easier for the baby to suck from the bottle since the nipple is soft) If a bottle would be ok, any suggestions on what type to get? Don't get me wrong, we're not going the bottle way, but just want to find out.

Cheers,
M&B


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## grace's voice (May 12, 2005)

The problem with bottles is that they require the baby to nurse in the exact OPPOSITE pattern as she does on the breast... which can be confusing, especially for a little one who is having a difficult time getting it down in the first place. On the breast the nipple draws to the back of baby's mouth and there is a flowing suck, suck, swallow pattern. With an artificial nipple baby does not have to do the same work. Instead, she must suck and then push her tongue forward, block the flow of milk, and swallow. Also, because she doesn't have to work to get milk to let down the bones in her skull do not form properly. You guys are doing awesome, I think if you just keep up the good work she'll get it, it just takes time for some. I also want to say how fantastic it is the way you and your wife are working together on this, what a lucky woman! ... and baby


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## m&b (Apr 23, 2006)

Haha, thanks!








I'm trying to be as supportive as I can. Alright, so not much progress today with latching but we're still just doing the finger/dropper method and she really likes that.

Off topic...my wife just got lily padz and really likes them so far!









I'll let you know what happens,
M&B


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## wombat (Nov 3, 2002)

I think the nipple sensitivity is also due to the hormones, like during the pregnancy. Mine also stopped being so sensitive after the first month or so. It gradually lessens, guess it depends on the woman. I have heard that fair skinned, red heads have it the worst.

You're right re nipple confusion - it can happen with any alternative feeding method. My dd got nipple confusion regardless of what we used - finger feeding or bottles. My ds hardly had any problems despite being in the NICU and getting bottles. Problem is you don't know what kinda baby you have until it happens. Finger feeding can be hard to keep up for too long - also depends on the baby - my dd would take about 45mins to take 3 x 10ml syringes. After several weeks it just wasn't practical. But I've heard other babies would just suck it down quick. I used to nurse and then supplement with finger feeding/pumped milk, then pump.

If feedings are taking so long that baby isn't getting the required number of feedings in in 24 hours you may want to consider other options. SNS isn't going to work if baby can't latch well. Avent and Playtex make some 'breast' like nipples - short straight nipples on a wide base is what you're looking for. Slow flow - one hole nipple or newborn nipple too although often they pour out too fast anyway. Also softer silicone (warm it in warm water to soften more) is better. This is where a good LC can be invaluable - they'll help find the best solution to your problem, while trying to minimise the 'side effects' like nipple confusion, lowered milk supply etc. You might pay about $80-100 for the first visit but after that subsequent visits are usually cheaper and often just a phone call is necessary.

Progress can be hard to see sometimes, a step forward, 2 steps backwards kinda thing. But hang in there cause it will work eventually.

If she's really in pain and uncomfortable, it should be fine to take some Motrin. I had some serious pain issues for several months with my dd due to her high palate and I considered painkillers part of the solution to keep breastfeeding. On top of all the emotions that come from not being able to nurse properly, pain can really turn one into an emotional mess. After all the hassles I had starting of nursing my two, I lost many of my purist ideas. Anything that helped get breastmilk into baby and helped assist long term breastfeeding suddenly became ok.


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## joyfilledmomma (Mar 14, 2006)

honestly after a few days of trying our nipple shield went right in the trash b/c even our lactation consultant admitted that dd just hated it (we could never figure out how to transition from it to the breast either)

as far as bottles go our lactation consultant recommended playtex with the disposable liners and slow flow nipples (slow flow is the most important thing) dd never had any nipple confusion...at 4.5 months she breastfeeds exclusively and takes one bottle of pumped milk once a week when she and dh have "daddy daughter time" she does chug the bottles pretty fast, but honestly she'd much rather breastfeed...i doubt she'd ever take a bottle from me...she'd give me her "momma what are you thinking?" look









i had a lot of nipple pain initially too and even thought maybe i was going to have to "settle" on giving dd my pumped milk in bottles and not bf (still better than formula!), but honestly pumping wasn't much better. it does get better..i have no pain today and can say i love nursing!







unfortunately it seems you have to push through the initial discomfort to get to the "i like nursing" point. you are doing the right thing to try and then take breaks...having a relaxed momma is most important....hang in there!


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