# he want to bed hungry last night!



## a~...Mamacitaa~... (Sep 18, 2004)

*bold* Ok, I am going nuts. I have a 4.5 year old that refused to eat last night. Let me set this up for you. We are getting into a heathier way of eating. DS is used to me making him other things if he doesn't like what we are having. and it is usually a corn dog or P.B&J. Well DH abd I decided not to do this anymore, It is taking away from our family time at dinner cuz i end up making two different meals and it is getting costly.DH and i belive he should eat what i make. So i made a great dinner last night, steak, noddles and snap peas. He refused to eat. So i told him that if he was not going to eat, he needed to stand in the corner until i was done eating and then bath and bed for him. And that's want happened. Help me out mama's am i doing the right thing?? I know i should have prevented this a long time ago. Have i created a picky monster??I also posted this in the parenting board too.


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## fizzymom (Nov 20, 2001)

Why did he have to stand in the corner?


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I'm sorry, but I would have refused to eat too. I think it's disrespectful to force foods on a child (or anyone for that matter, but adults usually have a choice) What was the purpose of making him stand in the corner until you were done eating?







You ask if you are doing the right thing and I have to say no, I don't think you are. If you like to have choices about the foods you eat, why do you think he doesn't?


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## a~...Mamacitaa~... (Sep 18, 2004)

cuz the foods he wants are unheathly and yes i know that is my fault for letting it start in the first place, and the whole corner thing was cuz i lost my temper, and i was in the wrong. But i am not letting him eat junk anymore!! And thats want he wants.


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## Angelstill (Jun 14, 2003)

Standing in the corner was way out of line.

I would have 2 or 3 healthy bland things that you know he will eat, that he could choose from if he did not want whatever it is you cooked available all of the time. The same bland items every meal. Make it something that requires little to no preperation and ideally, something he would have to fix for himself. Like peanut butter and apples and carrots.

Some kids are VERY picky eaters. It is not always a defiant behavior, just extreme food aversion. That way he is still in control but not running you ragged.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amanda721*
cuz the foods he wants are unheathly and yes i know that is my fault for letting it start in the first place, and the whole corner thing was cuz i lost my temper, and i was in the wrong. But i am not letting him eat junk anymore!! And thats want he wants.

I don't think that a PB n J sandwich is junk, but I suppose that depends on who you are. Healthy breads, homemade (sugar free even, if that's your deal) fruit spreads, and natural peanut butter are out there. Does he like fruit or any veggies? How about healthy cereals? Fruit salad with a little yogurt mixed in? I am a vegetarian and so I think steak isn't the best option, but I could not choose that for someone else


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## MelMel (Nov 9, 2002)

I only have a 2 year old (who isnt a picky eater, as much as she is a non eater :LOL she will try lots of stuff, but thats where it stops







) so maybe I dont know alot of dealing with older children and this situation....but i do think maybe making him seperate foods extended the problem. since you asked.









but i also dont get how standing in the corner relates to not eating food? did you just punish him as you would for him not listening to you? my mom was a very stern 'food' mom. we had to eat everything on our plate or we wore it. or we stood in the corner. or we got our hands hit with forks. nothing creates more food issues than fear of meal times. standing in the corner was just as bad to me, as a child, than the more physical punishments, because it lasted longer. and it certainly didnt help me be in a relaxed, safe environment where I could enjoy my food and be open to trying new things.

I dont think food and punishment should go hand in hand. just seems it will close off the child even more.

I would, in your situation...just keep offering the family meal, and allowing him to control what goes in his body by saying no...without punishment. he will get it that he is a part of a family and thats what you all eat together....I would hope....in time. either way, he is hungry if he doesnt eat. only you could do it without the resentment and negative attitude brewing towards food and power struggles in your child's mind.


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## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

I don't agree with the standing in the corner part, but the making one dinner for the family thing I'm fine with. We went through a phase were we were making all kinds of dinner. Now we make a meat meal and a non meat meal each night (I'm veggie, dh isn't) that gives him two choices.

I'm sorry but I'm not a cook or a maid I'm not going to make whatever he wants whenever he wants it.

Oh edditted to say, we don't force or make a deal out of it, this is what we are having for dinner, if you don't want it fine. We will offer fruit later in the evening if he wants it before bed.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelstill*
Standing in the corner was way out of line.

I would have 2 or 3 healthy bland things that you know he will eat, that he could choose from if he did not want whatever it is you cooked available all of the time. The same bland items every meal. Make it something that requires little to no preperation and ideally, something he would have to fix for himself. Like peanut butter and apples and carrots.

Some kids are VERY picky eaters. It is not always a defiant behavior, just extreme food aversion. That way he is still in control but not running you ragged.

Exactly. I won't be a short order cook, but as a picky eater myself, I empathize with having no control over what you can eat. We try our hardest to stock our entire house - fridge, pantry, freezer, etc. - with only healthy choices. That way if ds doesn't like any of the options available to him that I have made, he can help himself to pretty much whatever he wants. If we happen to have cookies or something like that, I will tell him he can only have a few until he eats something healthy. I tend to put them out of sight so it's generally not a problem.

Also, I try to remember to really think about what constitutes healthy food. There is pretty much nothing all that healthy about plain pasta - white flour and water. A bowl of healthy cereal and milk would probably give the kid a lot more nourishment.

I agree to never punish about food, especially something like standing in the corner for not wanting to eat. I do know about getting pissed and doing irrational things. I remember one time ds had this nagging cough that kept him (and us) up all night. So I bought him some cough syrup so we could get some sleep. He refused to even taste it, let alone take any of it. I tried every bribe I could think of - no go. I got so frustrated that I told him he couldn't have any food at all until he took the cough syrup!







He never did take the cough syrup, and I eventually realized how stupid I was being.


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## a~...Mamacitaa~... (Sep 18, 2004)

I agree that the corner was not right, i made a mistake-k-. All i am saying is that i made the food that i thought was healthy. It was his choice not to eat it. I do think that have fruits and veggis at hand for him to eat is a good idea and we usually do, but i haven't made it to my store yet.


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## apcanadianmamma (Sep 30, 2004)

We are trying to eat more healthy as well. What we do with my DD is to make food issues a non-issue. She does not like everything we have at meals and she doesn't have to eat it either. Now that doesn't mean that she is allowed to have chips or what not. (we solve that problem by just no longer having the junk in the house) We do keep healthy alternatives on hand that are sort of finger foods that we can just put out there as alternatives if she doesn't feel like eating what we eat. That doesn't mean that I have to make her a whole other meal. What that means is that maybe while DH and I are eating what I have prepared for dinner DD eats blueberries and cheese, whole grain crackers etc. I also find for toddlers what they love one day they will hate the next. I just keep putting meals out there for her...she is given what the rest of the family gets...if she eats it great, if she doesn't than maybe she isn't hungry at that time or maybe she just doesn't feel like we are having. I don't ever want to force her to eat anything. I have memories of being put to bed WITH supper where I had to finish eating what was left on my plate. It was horrible and I don't want to put my kids through that. I think maybe you will get further with DC if you stop emphasizing that he HAS to eat or else. I'd have him sit down with the family with a plate of whatever food and see what happens. If he isn't eating then maybe try some heathy alternative. The one thing we do with my daughter is that dinner time is at the table. If she doesn't want to eat she still needs to stay at the table with us for family time.

Hope this helps somewhat


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## hubris (Mar 8, 2003)

From his point of view, the change in mealtimes might have been very sudden and confusing. Easing into the new system might be less unsettling for him, and it could help him to branch out and learn to enjoy new foods. Could you involve him in the meal planning? That way you could guide the selections to be healthier than what he has had in the past, but he would have some say in what ends up on the table. Maybe sit down with a cookbook with colorful photos of the food and ask him to help make a menu for the next week. Then invite him to go shopping with you. Start reading labels with him and discussing his growing body and the need for healthy food. Enlist him in helping with the shopping by finding food on the list and placing it in the cart. Then maybe when it's time to start preparing dinner, let him pick which meal on the plan you will make that night (instead of assigning specific meals to specific dates...unless you really need to do one meal ahead of another one for leftover purposes).

And would it be possible to find healthy versions of his favorites? It would be hard for *me* to say goodbye to favorite foods, and I'm a lot older than 4.5!

Good luck to you!


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## Mama J Rock (Apr 2, 2004)

I would probably try to work some healthy things that he likes into every meal so that you know there is something that he will eat so that you can avoid an entirely seperate option. If he'll eat apples, serve them with dinner. If that's all he'll eat for dinner then that's fine. I wouldn't force him to eat what you're eating but I would encourage him in a fun game type way to at least try it. Also, at his age, he may enjoy helping you prepare things and that may make him more apt to try them.

I really don't think that you want to start a huge power struggle over food so I wouldn't make it a huge deal. He's also old enough to understand if you say to him, "DS, mommy has been letting you eat some foods that I've learned are not very good for you so I don't want you to eat them too much. Let's think of a list of things you like and we'll write them down and every time we eat we'll have something on your list with our dinner. It's really important for your body to grow up healthy and it also costs a lot of money for us to fix two dinners so that's why I can't fix you (fill in the blank) for supper".

Then make a list. Does he like apples, bananas, bread, rolls, cheese chunks, almonds, oranges, carrots sticks with dip? You could easily tie any of them into your meal as a side.

I think you'll find that over time he'll get more and more used to a wider variety of things. I have a ds who is an extremely picky eater and we went through a somewhat similar type of thing when he was the same age as your ds and while he still wouldn't eat vegetables if I didn't ask him to, he will eat them because he has grown to understand that I'm asking him to because I want him to be healthy and strong. He's 12 now and he has gotten better over the years, but I literally had to in 4 year old terms explain to him why it was important to eat all kinds of foods and what the different types did for him, i.e., calcium for strong bones, protein for strong muscles, vegetables for a healthy heart and healthy skin, etc.

It is frustrating but I would really recommend that you not let this be a power struggle. He can understand some of your explanations and as long as there is something he is willing to eat at every meal he won't feel as "attacked" and will probably be more receptive to the changes. Hang in there.


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## a~...Mamacitaa~... (Sep 18, 2004)

thanks mamas keep them coming i need all the ideas i can get. I like the last post alot, thanks mama!!!


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

A agree with Mama J Rock. It's what we do - try to make sure every meal has something that each family member likes. That way even if they don't want the carrots, there are plenty of noodles, and it is all fairly healthy, kwim?

We've also set food aside for later, to avoid getting in the habit of 'no thanks' and then ending up making a second meal later.

I think that a lot of weight issues are set up around not listening to our own bodies, so making a child go hungry as pretty counterproductive as forcing them to finish a meal, IMO. We just offer it again later when they're feeling hungrier. We don't care if they finish it or not, but if they're not feeling like eating at all at dinnertime, we'll just try the same thing when they are hungry later, kwim?


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## isosmom (Apr 23, 2004)

Sometimes kids just don't want to eat when we do. It's normal behavior. Don't hink I have much to say that hasn't already been said, but what I do for dd, who is a great eater, but even she sometimes doesn't want to eat when or what we're having, I just give her some bread, nuts, or dried fruit. Most of the time it's the timing thing, so she has some yoghurt with fruit and granola before bed. HTH


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I understand not wanting to fix separate meals for the family. My suggestion would be to allow your son to have some choice in the matter. Assuming that you're only keeping healthy food in your house, you could ask your son for some input on dinner. Let him have some control, and please give his ideas a chance. If he wants to dip brocolli in peanut butter, why not give it a chance? It won't hurt you any, and maybe he'll be happy, kwim?


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## a~...Mamacitaa~... (Sep 18, 2004)

good news, he ate pacefully tonite., but that doesn't mean he'll do that tommorrow, again thank you all for great advice and support, keep'em com'in


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## Ravin (Mar 19, 2002)

My niece pulled this a few times when I was babysitting her (at 3-4 yo). Except I would fix/buy something for the both of us that she asked for (such as macaroni and cheese or watermelon), then she would refuse to eat it. In the case of the mac and cheese I just put it away to offer to her later. In the case of the watermelon, I ate it all myself because I'd bought it for her as a reward for NOT throwing a temper tantrum and demanding I buy some when we went into the grocery store (which she'd done twice in a row before that day).

In retrospect she was just seeing if she could get her way, and I don't think she'd even tried watermelon before. She's pretty used to not getting something separate fixed for her, no one around her will generally do it, unless the adult meal is something pricey!


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I think its really important that kids have some control over what they eat and that meals are pleasant and unstressful. I think that both of those things are important both for family health now and for healthy attitudes towards food in the future. I also don't think that the "short order cook" syndrome is healthy. So, here is how we do it in our family (I have a 5 year old and a 20 mo. old):

My DH or I decide on and cook dinner. We put a small helping (really small - like 1 tablespoon of everything) on the kid's plates, cut into appropriate sized pieces. We cool it to their preferred temperature (I hate cold food, but both kids don't do anything above lukewarm). After that, it is up to them. If they like what we are serving, great. If not, they are allowed to get a piece of cheese or fruit. No hassles, no struggles, they eat something healthy regardless.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

We follow the Ellyn Sater approach (a well known dietician who wrote "how to get your kid to eat, but not too much).

I decide what is for dinner. I make it and put it family style on the table. I always have something the kids like (potatoes, rice, or bread).

It is up to them whether they eat anything, but they don't get to get up and get something else.

They are allowed to have a portion of dessert every night (whatever they choose from our large "treat jar" or ice cream or cookies)
Getting dessert does NOT depend on eating any dinner.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

I heard someone say something that I thought was pretty wise re. food and kids--to examine whether our goal is to make sure people are fed, or to simply make food. She likened it to standing in the middle of your floor swishing a broom around and calling that "sweeping"--even though the floor never got clean. Throwing food down and saying "that's it" doesn't seem like it's going to facilitate attachment or respect between anyone.

I make a lot of different food for my kid. He has lots of food allergies, so we can't generally eat the same thing. It's really not that big a deal. He needs to eat and he can't make stuff for himself yet...why wouldn't I want him to be happy with his food choices?

I think the whole "short order cook" phrase and mentality are counterproductive to happily helping little people--who depend on us for joyful dining experiences.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *monkey's mom*
Throwing food down and saying "that's it" doesn't seem like it's going to facilitate attachment or respect between anyone.
I think the whole "short order cook" phrase and mentality are counterproductive to happily helping little people--who depend on us for joyful dining experiences.


I will match our families dining experience against anyone's for sheer joy. We have a happy, fun atmosphere. We have a discussion topic each night and a "round up" of the day.

Of course if there are allergies, you need to deal with that.

But otherwise you'd be amazed at how "unpicky" kids are when dinner is what is in front of them when:

*there is no requirement to eat anything

*there is always some part of the meal that everyone likes

*you get dessert no matter what.

Study after study has shown that kids will start to like a food more simply by it being served to them even if they don't eat it (unless they are forced to eat it... which is a DISASTER!)

My kids love:
Salmon
Jambalya
Tuna
Meatloaf
Spinach
Asparagus
Broccoli
Lasagna
etc... most of which their friends won't touch. They eat healthy and sweets are eaten in healthy moderation.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:

I will match our families dining experience against anyone's for sheer joy. We have a happy, fun atmosphere. We have a discussion topic each night and a "round up" of the day.
Maya, it wasn't a challenge or a criticism.

I just don't think that offering one meal choice to *anyone* and basically saying, "like it or lump it" is respectful or kind. And I think that entertaining the "short order cook" mentality makes it harder to joyfully take care of little people.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I definitely think that children's like or dislike of certain foods (or even a dislike of untried food) should be respected. But that doesn't have to mean cooking something separate for just one person. Just in practical terms that wouldn't work in well for us (thank goodness I don't have allergy issues to deal with). But we do allow them to get an alternative for themselves if they desire. Both of them could get stuff out of the fridge by 15 mo. or so, and they have a shelf of stuff they can chose if they don't like dinner. But out of respect for myself and my needs, once I sit down to dinner, I am not going to get up and cook something else. Help open a yogurt, sure. Pour cereal, sure. But cook something? Nope. I (or my DH) worked hard on dinner and I deserve to eat it while it is hot and fresh.

We too do not limit dessert based on dinner eaten. We have, however, separated the two events so that a child isn't tempted to skip dinner and go straight to ice cream. Dessert comes about 1/2 an hour after getting up from the dinner table and is an informal "snack" event that doesn't necessarily involve everyone or everyone at the same time.


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

Re: dessert - we don't make it conditional either. It is a pretty rare event in our house anyway, maybe once a week max. We just don't tell them about it in advance. I had a HUGE thing with MIL about this







she kept announcing 'there are cookies and ice cream for after dinner!' or 'I have gumballs for you guys when you're done!' and other such things that totally stopped the kids from eating normally. Very quickly we went from them eating happily to them wanting the treat NOW and us needing to 'encourage' eating. Bribery SUCKS. I bit my tongue a couple of times before I finally got mad and ended up on a tirade about how this isn't how you get kids to eat. The funny thing is, she is always amazed at the fact that my kids will pretty much try everything and like all kinds of 'weird' foods, and I'd told her many times to cut that (bribery thing) out, but she never seemed to connect the two ideas...

Eating is just eating, I don't want my kids to think it is anything more complex than that.

And yes, as cliche as it is, I DO refuse to be a short-order cook. I don't make foods I know my kids hate unless I'm making a side-dish that they like, so that they have something to eat, there is NO WAY I'm making them something entirely different from what is on the table just because they don't 'feel like' something at the moment. They can eat what they feel like eating out of what I give them. This doesn't necessarily make me the food nazi or anything - it sounds strict, right, but it isn't, we actually have a very laid-back attitude towards what the kids eat and when. I'll often ask them what they want for lunch or dinner, and they get snacks that are strictly this-is-what-I-feel-like-now. I'm just not going to make them macaroni when I've already got a roast on the table, no matter how much they'd *prefer* macaroni, this is what is available tonight. When they get older they'll be free to decide to cook dinner for everyone if they feel like a certain thing that night (it was the deal in my parent's house, and a good one - if you feel like bbq chicken with rice but mom was going to make soup, we could have the bbq chicken if you made it).


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## Mama J Rock (Apr 2, 2004)

I get around fixing other things for anyone by making sure that every meal that is put on the table has a component that I know will appeal to every person. If I cook something main dish that I know my ds probably won't care for then I make sure to fix his favorite veggies to go with it. If I fix his favorite main dish the next night then I might go with a veggie that isn't his favorite but that maybe my dh really likes and hasn't had for a while. I always have bread of some form and butter/peanut butter/fruit spread/honey so if that's all he'll eat then so be it. If it became a situation where all he was eating at every meal was the bread then I'd probably try to change things up a bit but I haven't ever had to do that.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

Maya, I love Satter's approach.


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## Book Addict Jen (Mar 1, 2004)

I am a product of a mother who catered to us.She would prepare 3-4 things for dinner. I think it is wrong. I resent her for it. We for one do not have the money to do that. So instead we end up having the same foods all the time. BORING.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *monkey's mom*
I just don't think that offering one meal choice to *anyone* and basically saying, "like it or lump it" is respectful or kind. And I think that entertaining the "short order cook" mentality makes it harder to joyfully take care of little people.

But how is having someone take the time to cook a meal for you and then refusing to eat it respectful or kind?

Some things we do at mealtimes (they mostly work for us)
- really small first portions- they can always have more
- we encourage them to take a "polite bite" of everything
- my five-year-old knows where the peanut butter and bread are
- we only have healthy food in the house
- choices like "do you want your stroganof on your noodles or next to your noodles?"
- you don't have to eat it, but no complaining
- ask to be excused when your done, but then leave the room (we have our playstands and kids books in the dining room and it just gets too hard to have a conversation and finish our meal)
- if you didn't eat, or are still hungry, there is always a big bowl of apples, a bunch of bananas, yogurt, and baby carrots- help yourself!

At our house desert usually does depend on taking a polite bite of everything, but I will have to think about that... we rarely have desert anyway, mostly on feast days.

Annette


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *monkey's mom*
Maya, it wasn't a challenge or a criticism.

I just don't think that offering one meal choice to *anyone* and basically saying, "like it or lump it" is respectful or kind. And I think that entertaining the "short order cook" mentality makes it harder to joyfully take care of little people.


I just have to respectfully disagree. I have read the research on which Satter bases her approach.

It clearly shows that by "taking care of little people" you are basically substantially increasing the liklihood that they will become picky eaters. Kids are naturally neophobic (afraid of new things) when it come to food. Childhood is the BEST time to develop a more open palate. The vast majority of kids will learn to like many new food only by being presented with new foods. If they have an "out' which allows them to depend on only those foods they are comfortable with they will likely take it and are more likely to become picky adults.

The KEY to this approach and how it differs from how many were raised is:

1. You don't have to eat ANYTHING you don't want

2. Getting a food you like (i.e. dessert) is in no way dependant on eating any other food.

This is not a matter of respect, but doing what is right to help my children achieve healthy eating habits.


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## mishpiggy (Oct 8, 2004)

Ok so I am in the same boat wit my 4 1/2 year old. We have struggled with this issue for several years. At first he was a great eater. Around 2 he got really sick and his bad eating habits started then. For a long time I catered to him and didnt worry about it. At his 4 year check up I talked to his dr about his eating habits. The dr said not to worry. My son was taking a vitamin every day drinking his milk and juice. And was eating PB&J thats about it with the occasional yogurt and apple and banana. He ate fruit for my mom when she watches him while I work. But the problem is I only worked part time so only a few days of the week was he eating fruit. He just wouldnt eat it for me. Anyway he drank 100% juice so I wasnt worried. Well his dr said not to worry about it he will outgrow it and sounds like what we were doing was fine. As long as he took his vitamin and drank his milk and juice. So I just let it be. Well his eating habits have gotten worse he only eats crackers and will eat peanut butter but no jelly now. He eats yogurt more and so on. So I have put a new rule in to affect. Once a day he has to try something "new" whether its new or not. If I know he doesnt like it and has had it before or use to like it and doesnt now that goes into the "new" catagory. All he has to do is take one bite. Thats all I ask. So for example last night at dinner he was eating Viola noodles with us and I also had pears on the table. I gave him some noodles and pears. i said you can have more noodles if you eat one bite of pear. Well he wouldnt. So he didn tget more noodles. I told him no night night snack until you eat one bite of pears. Well course he wouldnt eat it so he went to bed and woke up hungry in the middle of the night. I wanted to cave but I didnt. My mom said he ate pretty good for breakfast but didnt seemed starved. So I know I did the righ thing. Im not asking him to clean his plate Im only asking for one bite. Hes old enough to know and be able to reason with that I feel. He can eat anything he wants as long as he eats a bite. Now Im not asking him to eat nasty things. Im asking for him to try pears peaches applesauce that kind of thing. And there are a few times he ate one bite and that was it and he got to eat something else. So he knows its just when he decides other wise well thats it. I do make him sit with us at the table so we can be together as a family.
I know too many adult eats who are picky because as children they were never made to eat anything. I have friends this way and I dont want to invite them over for dinner because they wont eat anyway. My parents forced me to eat things I didnt like and now as an adult I am not a picky eater. At the time growing up I didnt like it but am thankful now. My younger brothers (we adopted at ages 3 and 7) were the pickest eaters and now they eat anything. They had to try new foods and it was amazing most the time they liked it the first time they tried it (they are now 14 and 18). So thats waht I hope for my son. By asking him to take a bite of something he may discover hey I really do like it. most the things Im reintroducing are things he loved in the past.
Sorry to ramble I hope this helps with your son.


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

I stopped reading the replies about the third one but have you seen the book "how to get your child to eat but not too much?"


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
But how is having someone take the time to cook a meal for you and then refusing to eat it respectful or kind?

But why are they refusing? I don't think it has much to do with who prepared the meal (especially for little kids), I think it has to do with the meal, itself, or the person refusing it. I think there are plenty of ways to decline a meal politely. If someone declines I just can't imagine why you wouldn't offer something else.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya43*
I just have to respectfully disagree. I have read the research on which Satter bases her approach.

It clearly shows that by "taking care of little people" you are basically substantially increasing the liklihood that they will become picky eaters.

Given the choice between sending my kid to bed hungry by not honoring his need for food and potentially creating a picky eater somewhere down the line I have to say the choice is clear to me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya43*
Kids are naturally neophobic (afraid of new things) when it come to food. Childhood is the BEST time to develop a more open palate. The vast majority of kids will learn to like many new food only by being presented with new foods. If they have an "out' which allows them to depend on only those foods they are comfortable with they will likely take it and are more likely to become picky adults.

I'm all for introducing new foods. But I don't think it should be in a pressure cooker (hee! no pun intended) situation of "eat this or get nothing else." That is punitive and doesn't jive with my understanding of GD or AP.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *monkey's mom*

Given the choice between sending my kid to bed hungry by not honoring his need for food and potentially creating a picky eater somewhere down the line I have to say the choice is clear to me.

I'm all for introducing new foods. But I don't think it should be in a pressure cooker (hee! no pun intended) situation of "eat this or get nothing else." That is punitive and doesn't jive with my understanding of GD or AP.

Actually, if you start this approach from the begining, kids are VERY unlikely to go to bed hungry. As you may recall this approcah involves there alwasy something they will eat on the table, even if it does not a food they love.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Hey Amanda,

Didn't realize you posted this in two places. I left you a second post that I hope will help at the other "station." Best of luck and I'm glad things were better tonight. Em


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## wemoon (Aug 31, 2002)

I do sometimes get frustrated that my son won't eat what I cook (my DD eats EVERYTHING and loves it!). I think mainly the thing for me is that I'm a single mom, trying to prepare good wholesome foods for my small family and then the food gets wasted. I am always concerned about how much food is getting thrown away because I'm poor. BUT......

I don't make him eat if he sincerely doesn't want to. I will try to talk to him about it, ask him if he could at least try it, what doesn't he like about it, how could it be better. These things have sometimes turned a disaster into a success just by finding out what the problem with the food is. Sometimes it is as simple as he didn't want his noodles touching his broccoli. My son LOVES to dip everything, so I try to make sure he has lots of opportunities to dip his food in stuff, into sauce, ketchup, dressing, yogurt anything really.

But sometimes it is still a struggle and sometimes I do get mad. It is a work in progress and I move closer to freedom for all everyday. Tonight was a perfect example. I made chili and grilled cheese sandwhiches. DS didn't want any of it. I couldn't even talk to him about it because he was unwilling to talk. So fine, put your dishes on the counter if you don't want to eat, and he did. Then later on, he wants bread and butter, and a string cheese. Great, he has food, it wasn't junk and everything is fine.

Oh and we have very little *junk*. I've had a cake sitting on the counter for a week now that we have only half eaten. We just don't eat sweets much at all.

Sorry for my total ramble, thinking outloud, this actually helped me see my own situation a little better.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

A friend of mine has my copy of Satter's book ("Child of Mine") but as I recall Satter does NOT advocate a love-it-or-leave-it, go to bed hungry method.

In addition to making sure there is at least one thing at dinner that your child(ren) like(s), she believes in offering healthy snacks a few hours later.

The key to Satter is putting no pressure on your child to eat what they don't want to eat. You make sure there is some part of dinner they do like. No need to cook extra meals, because everyone can eat something at dinner. And if they don't, there will be snacks later on.

No going to bed hungry








No guilt trips
No "one bite" rules

ETA:
From Kellymom's review

Quote:

She says our culture has gotten so far away from trusting our kids to know what they are hungry for and when they are full. That's not to say you fix whatever the child wants, or let them eat junk food exclusively. It's basically a solid-foods extension of breastfeeding on demand, rather than trying to get a baby to eat a set amount of food at a set time. You just offer regular meals and snacks, and trust your child to eat enough and balance out over the course of several days
http://www.kellymom.com/reviews/reviews_mini2.html


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

I haven't read that book, Aine, but I do agree with that. My *plan* (as we all know they don't always go as you want them to and thngs change but for now....) is to make dinner with at least 1-2 things DS likes. If he eats, great. If not and wants something later I will get him something (healthy). We aren't too big on desserts. We usually go through spurts where we'll bake cookies or pies or cakes or whatever. But for the most part I don't eat desserts, except the rare occaision.

And for my food story.... when I was about 8 my parents told me I couldn't leave the table without eating my mashed potatoes. I hate mashed potatoes. I stalled and stalled and stalled. I finally took a bite...... and promptly threw up. Now what good did that do? I obviously didn't eat the rest of the potatoes (if I recall correctly my parents either had left to run an errand or were out of the room, I remember my siblings were around). And 12 years later I haven't taken another bite of them. Similar thing with milk. We were told we had to drink a cup of milk with dinner. I hate milk so would never drink it. I think my parents eventually realized they were just wasting money pouring me a cup of milk everyday so that stopped too.


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## zipperump-a-zoomum (Jan 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dechen*
A friend of mine has my copy of Satter's book ("Child of Mine") but as I recall Satter does NOT advocate a love-it-or-leave-it, go to bed hungry method.

In addition to making sure there is at least one thing at dinner that your child(ren) like(s), she believes in offering healthy snacks a few hours later.

The key to Satter is putting no pressure on your child to eat what they don't want to eat. You make sure there is some part of dinner they do like. No need to cook extra meals, because everyone can eat something at dinner. And if they don't, there will be snacks later on.

No going to bed hungry








No guilt trips
No "one bite" rules

[/url]

Now that sounds much more like something I could get behind. You've inspired me to read the book, Dechen








Kaly


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zipperump-a-zoomum*
Now that sounds much more like something I could get behind. You've inspired me to read the book, Dechen








Kaly


Yes, do be aware thought that Satter is a big believer that parents, not children are to set the "when" of eating (after infancy, when she completely supports feeding on demand.) She does wholeheartedly call for SET snack times each day.


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## Nanner (Apr 12, 2002)

Just don't buy junkfood and he won't have it to eat. Or if you must buy it, then at least hide it to bring out when you think it is acceptable. That way junk is not an option. What I do is make dinner and put it in front of dd (4 yrs). If she does not like it, I will get her something else easy, but I don't ccok anything separate for her. So, she may eat an apple and some crackers for dinner instead of the stir-fry. I usually try not to let her snack in the last couple of hours before dinner and I encourage her to at least try the dinner I made. We sit down together for dinner and when she is done she can get up and go play.
My parents never forced us to eat anything. Rule of thumb was we ate what Mom cooked or we found our own dinner to eat, no set time we had to sit at the table or what we ate. I never remember skipping dinner, and neither did my 2 siblings (my memory of this probably only goes back to around age 5-6 and up). We also had junk food in the house by the time I was around 5, but not much of it before then and I preferred the healthy stuff. I loved veggies then and still do.
My dd on the other hand is a junk food lover and will eat that if it's available.
Sara


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## a~...Mamacitaa~... (Sep 18, 2004)

Wow, my little post has grown to almost full size.Thanks to all the mamas out there with you'r kind words of wisdom, and for understanding that sometimes mamas just have one-of-thoes-days.


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## a~...Mamacitaa~... (Sep 18, 2004)

well i have tried some of the ideas and they are really paying off. Thank again.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I would never punish or send a child to bed hungry. Food is not so important I'm going to participate in a power struggle.

I think good advice has been given for parents, perhaps with large families, who can only fit in preparation for one meal. Logically, a mother of 6 children couldn't fix 6 totally different meals 3 times a day. Still, I'm sure a respectful attititude could still be managed. I know some families of large children have a rule that if the child doesn't want what is served, they are free to make themselves a sandwich. I like that attitude.

For us personally, with an only child, I don't have any qualms about fixing whatever ds would like. It just doesn't matter to me. If we have it in the house, I will fix it. I've never had a problem with him asking for something, then not eating what I fixed him. If he asked for it, he always eats it. It works fine in our house.


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## be11ydancer (Dec 2, 2003)

We used to not be very a.p. with our first child and so we tried the whole "eat or starve" approach, bribery, and whatever else. It was a mess. She became a very picky eater. Over time, we became more a.p. and changed our approach to food. I posted a thread about this a while ago. We decided to allow her to eat whatever we have in the house. If it's there, she can eat it. She also helps me decide what to get from the grocery store. I'll let her (she's almost 4) pick out what fruits she wants, etc. It's going well. We have ice cream on hand and she rarely wants it but if she did want it, that's fine.

I've noticed that she instinctively knows what her body needs. Some days, she'll want nothing but dairy and foods with a lot of calcium. Other days, she'll want lunch meat and hot dogs. And other days, she'll crave lots of fruit and veggies. By allowing her to eat what she wants, she has learned to listen to her body. She's also been given the opportunity to have some control, which little kids crave. KWIM?

Dinner isn't a big struggle anymore. I make things that generally everyone likes. She may or may not like some of the food. I try and introduce new items frequently and just learned that she loves artichokes. Who would've known? She gets a little of everything on her plate and will usually try most of it. She also loves dipping sauces with her food. The key to successful dinner time is having it no later than 6pm, and making sure everyone is in a good mood when they come to the table. Another trick I've learned is that if she has a pretty plate and place setting like my nice china, she'll be more excited to eat what we're having.


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## kater07 (Jan 6, 2002)

I have to say that I agree with you. If I make dinner then by golly EVERYONE will eat what I cooked. I am NOT making different dinners for different people! DH and I agreed about that before we even talked about having children.

That said, I often don't cook what I would LOVE to eat because DH is a picky eater. I'd rather not hear about how my cooking sucks or have him throw it away and make himself junk. DH is a junk food eater and DS would be that way too.

I agree that PB&J is junk food. It's not totally unhealthy if you use the right stuff, but it's not a well balanced meal.

I often make 2 veggies with dinner b/c DH and DS wont' always eat the kind I want. I make a lot of different potatoes and allow them both to get what they want. I let DS have the drink of his choice with every meal because that makes things easier and he'll eat more if he has what HE asked for to drink.

If you know that your DS won't eat steak, then make sure that you have something else high on protein on hand for his dinner. does he like boiled eggs? I keep a dozen eggs boiled and in the fridge. If he likes veggies and fruit, then keep some of that stuff cut up and make it a choice at each meal.

I don't think that you should make a whole other dinner for other family memebers. I also don't think that kids should be forced to eat what they don't like. My sister is VERY unhealthy because we spend HOURS sitting at the table as kids just waiting for her pickiness to eat her stinking dinner. That was WRONG of my parents. If you know your DS doesn't like what you are fixing, then make sure there's SOMETHING that he will eat. Surely, there's something healthy that he does like that can be a part of each meal.

Sorry you feel bad, mama! It has to be hard. Raising kids is a learning experience. You know some things you can do to change things. I hope you figure things out. I think that the Sears Dicipline Book is for kids through age 10. You might look at it and see if you can positively change the way your family does dinner. Also, Whole Foods for the Whole Family might be a GREAT resource for new meals and ways to incorporate healthy eating into your son's life.

Don't beat yourself up too much.


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## doctorjen (May 29, 2003)

Just wanted to point out that kids' personalities play a role here, too. We don't have any one-bite rules or similar, and I will not fight with my kids about food. M oldest ds eats anything, and always has. I figured that was due to my superior parenting, LOL, until I had my other children. My kids pick out their own breakfast (from among the healthy choices available) and will often eat sandwiches, or other non-breakfast food for breakfast. We pack their lunches for school with stuff we know they like. They eat happily for the most part. My older dd went through a long very picky phase where she ate very little we liked for supper. We tried to never make an issue of it, and she's back to eating many different foods, now. Younger ds is a different story. He eats just about nothing at supper time. Despite the fact that he's never been forced to eat, and can get fruit or other things to eat if he doesn't like what we have, his normal reaction to suppertime is to plop down at the table and immediately start crying that he doesn't like what we're having. When he is reminded that he doesn't have to eat it, and that he can get a banana or something instead, he usually cries about how it's "no fair" that we make what everyone else likes but not him. Since he only really like hot dogs, it's a little limiting to make what he wants. I have no idea why he is the only one of my children, raised in the same environment to feel this way and I figure it must have something to do with his own innate personality. I'm hoping that like his sister he'll start to enjoy more foods as he gets older. I'm also hoping he'll eventually feel that we aren't picking on him, since he really has never been forced to eat, and has choices available to him that he likes. He's 7 now.
Of course, I will continue to not fight with my kids about food, but I've been impressed by how different my children respond to the same approach!


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

One thing that has helped me has been to set up a area in the kitchen that has acceptable food that she can get at whenever she is hungry. She often has a big snack around 4:30 or so. It is just when her body is ready for food, but I'm not usually ready for dinner. I will either let her have a snack from her area, or will make her a PB&J sandwhich (I think it is pretty healthy with whole grain bread, low sugar jam in moderation, and protein packed peanuts), get her yogurt, grapes, crackers, cheese, etc. She might have something with dinner then (usually around 6:00pm), but not much. She loves pasta and bread. I usually serve one of those. I don't make a power struggle out of it. After dinner, if she hasn't eaten, and I think she's hungry, I'll offer her another snack. Sometimes she eats, sometimes, not.

Bec


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## lula (Feb 26, 2003)

I don't get the argument that letting kids pick their foods equals picky eaters. I just don't think that this is always true or even true most of the time.

Personal experience- my parents my mom would cook one meal and if we did not like it we could get our own snack. Emphasis on healthy food and the food choices were not junk food because she didn't buy the junk most of the time) My family universally eats a huge variety of everything, all types of cuisine, many different fruits, vegtables etc. We went through phases when we were younger where we didn't eat a huge variety but as adults none of us are picky.

Husbands family- all were only given what their mother made and no other choices also had three bite rule. All of them eat limited numbers of food etc. All of them are picky eaters.

I think it has more to do with food exposure and experiences than anything. I just don't see why this is such an issue. Is it really that hard to just have healthy smaller already prepared (not as in packaged prepared) items available to your child when they don't want what is for dinner? Why is this so bad?

Food is more than just eating it is an experience, it is the taste, the smells, memory associations etc

Also the whole balanced meal approach can mean many different things to different people, in my house potatoes, corn, rice, most beef, pork, pasta, are all items that I limit or just don't buy but I am sure to others these may be the cornerstones of a balanced meal.


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelstill*
Standing in the corner was way out of line.


Well IMNSHO, Telling a mama she is out of line is out of line!

I PERSONALLY, think that it's reasonable to expect a kid to eat what the family eats. Serve a couple things with every meal that your child likes. It's only fair. If the child doesnt like part of the dinner, no biggie. Just eat the other parts. If you are cooking something your kid hates, make something alongside it that your kid likes. I don't see a need to make a child stand in a corner. But I wasn't there and I don't have a 4 year old. I think it's pretty strict and my instinct is, there are better ways to handle it, but again, I wasnt there. I give my dd time out kinda things when she throws tantrums. If she threw a tantrum at the table and couldnt stop, i suppose I can see myself giving her a time out in a chair off to the side, possibly in the corner.

Mamas who are attack happy, PLEASE put yourself in others' shoes for a moment. You're not being graded on how AP your responses are. You can still be AP and be kind to people who do things slightly differently than you do them. Geez!

Anyway, original poster, I think going to bed hungry was probably punishment enough. But who the heck am I to say? I am curious if you get better results now that you've laid down the law. My 3 year old doesn't eat 1/3 of what I serve her at night. I don't really care so much. But I havent ever gotten in the habit of making her something different. I can just imagine how annoying that must be! And I hear your frustration.
K


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## a~...Mamacitaa~... (Sep 18, 2004)

I have started to not make a big deal out of eating. It has gotten better.If he doesn't like it well then he can have fruit. Tonite he didn't like what we had, keep in mind he liked it last week when we had it, so he chose not to have anything,not even fruit. I agree with the last post. You mamas are not being graded and are somtime quick to judge. I asked for support and ideas and some of you flamed me so hard I was a bonfire. Next time before that happens, realize some of us are new to AP and can't just change over nite, it takes time.


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

i agree on the concept of offering one dinner (he is old enough) as long as it's reasonably within what he would eat. (nothing he hates!) if you eat, great, if not, there's fruit after dinner available. I understand you lost your temper- it happens to everyone. take it & grow from it & tell yourself that he's 4 & not in control of your emotions (easier said than done!).

by the way, morningstar farms makes veggie corn dogs that are quite tasty!


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Amanda, I am glad to hear that things are going better over dinnertime. If your DS chose to eat nothing last night, well then, it was his choice. I guess if it were my kids, I'd assume they weren't hungry that night. They love milk, & will usually have a glass before bed. Sometimes DS doesn't want any milk, & hasn't eaten very much either.







: Usually if they're not that hungry at dinnner they'll have a _huge_ breakfast the next am. Not every time tho. Kids, ya know?

See how it goes for a while, & if he's not hungry at tea time all that often, maybe it's time to evaluate if he's getting enough 'goodies' at other times of the day. Just thinking 'aloud'.......


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## Tracy1cg (Oct 26, 2004)

We also used to make seperate meals for my oldest, but aside from being costly and time consuming, it only encouraged picky eating.
Now we have a rule, whatever I make is what there is to eat. If you want to eat it great, if not that's fine too but he gets nothing else till the next meal. If it's dinner time and he doesn't want to eat it, then he goes to bed (at his normal time- not as punishment







) without eating dinner and that's his choice. Usually he will eat some of it though. His pickyness has diminished greatly and he eats a much wider variety (and healthier!) of foods. I do try to make things that I know he'll eat but if he's not in the mood for it then as I said that's fine, but he doesn't get anything else instead. If there is a night that he goes to bed without dinner then I make it a point to make something that I know he'll eat the following night.
Good luck to you!


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