# Kicked out of Girl Scouts



## DBZ (Aug 9, 2005)

My 11 year old was kicked out of girl scouts after not having sold any cookies this year. Actually she was put into "juliette" status which IMO was her troop leader's way of kicking her out. When my DD sold candy and nuts for the girl scouts (just before cookie time) she lost the form and was too embarassed to deliver them. I wouldn't let her sell cookies until she finished the candy and nut order. She finished her candy and nut order when the troop finished the cookie order, so she didn't have time to sell cookies. My other DD who is in the same troop sold plenty though. It wasn't like we dropped the ball.

Another girl in the troop didn't sell candy and nuts, but sold cookies and she wasn't kicked out. I'm wondering if this is a case of the leader prefering one child over another or is there something about selling cookies that would tick off a leader bad enough to kick a girl out.

A little history to add to this...we moved here 2 years ago so this was my girls' 2nd year with this troop in this town. When I signed up my girls I made it very clear that my 11 is very hyper (adhd) and that my 13 yo has special needs. At the sign ups, I was told that these things were no big deal and that she be happy to take my kids on. She even went as far to say that my 11 yo would fit right in as many of the girls were hyper (they were 9 then). After several meetings, the leader told me that either I had to come to the meetings too or my DD would not be welcome. Thankfully I only had to do that for a few meetings. It was aweful having to do this with a 12 month old in a sling for 2 hours.

My plan is to find my kids a new troop, but I'd still like some feedback on the cookie issue. If there is some rule that a kid must sell cookies to be a girl scout, I think we will quit all together.

thanks
Kara


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I would find another troop but at the same time I am going to support the leader about the funds. If she/you took that long to get funds to her about candy sales that was a great inconvience to the troop. She *HAD* to send that negative information to council. Council is the one that goes after the money.

Your dd needs more suppervission with those activities. It, IMO, is your responciblity to see her through it not the troops. You know she has special needs with ADHD and since this doesn't just effect her you need to be more on top of her.

It isn't a requirement but you need to also look at were funds come from. If you/she can't sell cookies please make a donation to the troop. That is how money for things like patches, activities, et are earned. With out these funds the girls can't do things. If she doesn't try to contribute then she isn't helping the troop and shouldn't benifit the same as the other girls that put an effort into selling and being responcible. Does your daughter understand the connection between her effort to sale and activities they can do? The troop should be helping make those connections.


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## zeldamomma (Jan 5, 2006)

There's no rule that girls have to sell cookies, there's actually a rule that girls _don't_ have to sell cookies. Troops should figure out how to get along with the amount of funds they have. If you missed the deadline for turning in your funds for the candy and nut sales, that's something else, but it should have been dealt with at the time, and as long as you got the funds in eventually, I don't think it's a reason to kick a girl out of the troop-- the fund-raising is supposed to be an opportunity for girls to learn about responsibility, and when kids are learning, mistakes are expected.

Did the leader tell you she was putting her in "juliette status" because of the cookies? If so, I would call the council about it. I don't think she's allowed to do that. I'm not sure she can kick a girl out at all, unless there's been a pretty major problem-- something really dangerous or illegal.

From the GSUSA website:

Quote:

Q: Does a Girl Scout troop/group have to sell cookies if it doesn't want to?

A: The Girl Scout Cookie Program is not just about cookies. These annual activities offer many opportunities for hands-on entrepreneurial program activities. We find that most girls in Girl Scouting thoroughly enjoy this activity and look forward to it each year. Participation in this activity is voluntary and requires written permission by a parent or guardian. Our youngest members, Daisy Girl Scouts, who are five and six-are not allowed to sell Girl Scout cookies under any circumstances.
http://www.girlscouts.org/program/gs...p_sell_cookies

Sorry you're dealing with this! I would definitely call the council and make sure the leader isn't abusing her powers.

ZM


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I would report it to the council.

As mentioned it is actually in the rules that girls do NOT have to sell cookies.

-Angela


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I would report it to the council.

As mentioned it is actually in the rules that girls do NOT have to sell cookies.

-Angela









:

I'd sit down in a one-on-one with the leader to see if I could get a sense of her concerns. Then I'd take it up with the council.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

ITA: Discuss it thoroughly with the leader, and if you can't resolve it to your satisfaction then contact the council, as well as switching both daughters to another troop.

Yes, the cookie sale is an important fundraiser. However, if a girl sold any significant quantity of nuts, I'd be inclined to "forgive" her for not selling cookies. (Did you turn in the money to the troop on time--write a check to cover it even though your daughter had not delivered her orders yet? If not, I can understand the leader being upset about that. I do think it makes sense for you to tell your daughter that because she was unwilling to deliver her nuts, she couldn't take orders for cookies.) My troop does a lot of direct sales of cookies after the order-taking phase, and this year we had two girls who did not take any orders but did participate in some of the sales. I tell my girls that who sells 20 boxes and who sells 200 is largely a matter of luck, and we all just do our best to support the troop so we all can do fun stuff together.

I have in the past asked parents to pay their daughter's share of the cost for an expensive activity because she did not sell cookies OR nuts AND has paid dues infrequently AND I'm not aware of any financial problem in their family. I would never kick a girl out of the troop for that.

It sounds like there may be issues with your daughter's behavior, and her not selling cookies was kind of the last straw for the leader. I hope you can work it out and, one way or another, find a great troop for your girls!


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## a(TM)?Star (Oct 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I would report it to the council.

As mentioned it is actually in the rules that girls do NOT have to sell cookies.

-Angela


This. I would also have a hard time putting her back in GS after this BS. Sorry you had to attend meetings and such with your LO in tow, but maybe your girls aren't ready for a group activity like this without you if they have trouble with it.


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## chel (Jul 24, 2004)

I've never heard of someone being "kicked out". Sounds like a crazy leader and in no way representing GS.

There's a rule about not being able to be penalized a girl in any way for not selling. All profits go towards the troop. It doesn't matter if one dc sold a lot and another didn't. So when the troop plans an activity the profit is divided evenly and any remaining balance is divided evenly among the girls.


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## AAK (Aug 12, 2004)

I would find another troop. With your other dd selling the cookies, I would say your family definitely contributed to the fund raiser (not to menion the nuts). However, even with the rule that you don't need to sell cookies, I can say it annoys me that our troop has no requirement at all. Our cookie money is used for a big end of year event and it honestly drives me nutty that the kids who sold NOTHING and contributed NOTHING still get to go free.

When I was in girl scouts, my mom was the leader. We didn't have anyone who was "financially strapped" in the troop. But everyone agreed to this: either you sell 4 cases of cookies (48 boxes) OR you write a check for what would have come to the troop. I really liked that because it required everyone to contribute one way or another.

Amy


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AAK* 
I would find another troop. With your other dd selling the cookies, I would say your family definitely contributed to the fund raiser (not to menion the nuts). However, even with the rule that you don't need to sell cookies, I can say it annoys me that our troop has no requirement at all. Our cookie money is used for a big end of year event and it honestly drives me nutty that the kids who sold NOTHING and contributed NOTHING still get to go free.

When I was in girl scouts, my mom was the leader. We didn't have anyone who was "financially strapped" in the troop. But everyone agreed to this: either you sell 4 cases of cookies (48 boxes) OR you write a check for what would have come to the troop. I really liked that because it required everyone to contribute one way or another.

Amy

Wow. Harsh.

The national organization basically says you CAN'T do that.

I would not put my girls in any troop with those kinds of rules- and I'd raise heck with the council if I heard of such a thing.

-Angela


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## mommyinIL1976 (Jan 20, 2008)

My dd (11) doesn't want anything to do with Girl Scouts and now I'm glad after hearing this. My sons don't participate in the boy scouts either. DH and I weren't pleased with their stance on homosexuals and we had a den mother tell us our oldest son wouldn't be allowed to be in cub scouts because we are atheists.







:


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## a(TM)?Star (Oct 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AAK* 
I would find another troop. With your other dd selling the cookies, I would say your family definitely contributed to the fund raiser (not to menion the nuts). However, even with the rule that you don't need to sell cookies, I can say it annoys me that our troop has no requirement at all. Our cookie money is used for a big end of year event and it honestly drives me nutty that the kids who sold NOTHING and contributed NOTHING still get to go free.

When I was in girl scouts, my mom was the leader. We didn't have anyone who was "financially strapped" in the troop. But everyone agreed to this: either you sell 4 cases of cookies (48 boxes) OR you write a check for what would have come to the troop. I really liked that because it required everyone to contribute one way or another.

Amy

Well you just made it easy for me....my kid will NEVER be a GS then, thanks.


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## Mandynee22 (Nov 20, 2006)

There isn't in the troop that I volunteer with... all our girls did sell though and we did some booth sales and split the sales between whichever girls were there.
We had TONS of cases left because stupid council wouldn't take any back this year after a ridiculously early date so instead of paying dues, every parent bought a case of cookies.
Is your troop planning something expensive or are they strapped? Was there any kind of requirement?
If she wants to still be in girl scouts then maybe check out different troops in the area and see how they work.


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## Mandynee22 (Nov 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom* 
I would find another troop but at the same time I am going to support the leader about the funds. If she/you took that long to get funds to her about candy sales that was a great inconvience to the troop. She *HAD* to send that negative information to council. Council is the one that goes after the money.

Plus, the money has to come from the troop's bank account until whoever hasn't turned it in reimburses them but I thought the issue was that she hadn't delivered all the cookies because she lost the paper so OP wouldn't let her sell cookies till it was done.

ETA: I don't get why people are angry that every kid/family had to participate in fund-raising for the troop... the things that the troop does cost money and since you can't just leave kids out who don't bring any in, how do you expect them to participate? Do you think it's fair that families who contribute nothing get to do the same as ones who did contribute?
Admission and activity costs have to come from somewhere. The patch money has to come from somewhere...


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## zeldamomma (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mandynee22* 
ETA: I don't get why people are angry that every kid/family had to participate in fund-raising for the troop... the things that the troop does cost money and since you can't just leave kids out who don't bring any in, how do you expect them to participate? Do you think it's fair that families who contribute nothing get to do the same as ones who did contribute?
Admission and activity costs have to come from somewhere. The patch money has to come from somewhere...

I wouldn't argue if the organization had the rule that all girls have to participate in cookie sales, but the organization has the opposite rule, that girls do not have to participate. If the leader doesn't like the Girl Scout rules, she shouldn't run a Girl Scout troop.

This year my dd sold a lot of cookies, but not because she worked really hard at it-- we happen to have a lot of family in the area who bought cookies, and my husband was able to bring the cookie form into work and sell there. We have a nice community that supported my daughter in her cookie sales. A girl who doesn't have that kind of community and family support shouldn't get kicked out of girl scouts because of it. I know this wasn't the issue for the OP, but it would be for a lot of girls.

Here is how my dd's manages their finances: every summer, the leaders sit down, take a look at the amount of money raised the previous year, plan what events they'd like the troop to do, and determine how much to ask for in dues. We don't do a lot of spendy activities, but the girls have a lot of fun, and they're able to keep the dues low too. As for the issue of fairness-- cookie sales are a fundraiser for the troop and the council, not the individual girls. The girls are rewarded for their cookie sales with prizes and badges, and that's as far as it goes.

ZM


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## DBZ (Aug 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zeldamomma* 
There's no rule that girls have to sell cookies, there's actually a rule that girls _don't_ have to sell cookies. Troops should figure out how to get along with the amount of funds they have. If you missed the deadline for turning in your funds for the candy and nut sales, that's something else, but it should have been dealt with at the time, and as long as you got the funds in eventually, I don't think it's a reason to kick a girl out of the troop-- the fund-raising is supposed to be an opportunity for girls to learn about responsibility, and when kids are learning, mistakes are expected.

Did the leader tell you she was putting her in "juliette status" because of the cookies? If so, I would call the council about it. I don't think she's allowed to do that. I'm not sure she can kick a girl out at all, unless there's been a pretty major problem-- something really dangerous or illegal.

From the GSUSA website:

http://www.girlscouts.org/program/gs...p_sell_cookies

Sorry you're dealing with this! I would definitely call the council and make sure the leader isn't abusing her powers.

ZM

Ok I haven't read all the replies yet (thank you for replying!!). I want to address these two points before I go put my kids to bed.

Anyway, the candy and nut orders were paid when the customers ordered, so the leader didn't know that my DD was slow to deliver them. I've always turned in cookie funds on time, even if it meant dipping into my own money. I should have copied my DD's form. I've done that with previous things. She only had about 4-5 people buy stuff so it wasn't a huge list.

She definately did say that she was knocking my DD down to juliette status for not selling cookies. She said something about it messing up her stats or percentages or something.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

That's lame DBZ. I think I would take it up with whoever is above her.


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## Mandynee22 (Nov 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zeldamomma* 
I wouldn't argue if the organization had the rule that all girls have to participate in cookie sales, but the organization has the opposite rule, that girls do not have to participate. If the leader doesn't like the Girl Scout rules, she shouldn't run a Girl Scout troop.

This year my dd sold a lot of cookies, but not because she worked really hard at it-- we happen to have a lot of family in the area who bought cookies, and my husband was able to bring the cookie form into work and sell there. We have a nice community that supported my daughter in her cookie sales. A girl who doesn't have that kind of community and family support shouldn't get kicked out of girl scouts because of it. I know this wasn't the issue for the OP, but it would be for a lot of girls.

Here is how my dd's manages their finances: every summer, the leaders sit down, take a look at the amount of money raised the previous year, plan what events they'd like the troop to do, and determine how much to ask for in dues. We don't do a lot of spendy activities, but the girls have a lot of fun, and they're able to keep the dues low too. As for the issue of fairness-- cookie sales are a fundraiser for the troop and the council, not the individual girls. The girls are rewarded for their cookie sales with prizes and badges, and that's as far as it goes.

ZM

I was kind of just saying it in general. I know that they don't HAVE to participate but there are a lot of things we don't *have* to do but should anyway.
Our troop does the troop things for that troop year, not the next, so the girls who bridge up can participate, too.
We sold about 300 boxes of cookies (my DD and I) so I know it's a PITA but I can't see how it wouldn't be possible for any kid to not sell a couple boxes or do one of the other fund-raisers or SOMETHING. I liked the idea of a mini amount or paying the difference in dues. We have to pay them anyway. Maybe you're right. Maybe if they don't have the family support- someone to take them around to the neighbors houses... but in our troop we did booth sales and split between the girls so if that had been a problem, a girl could have come sans parent. We have some working moms and the leader even picks up the kids and/or drops them off. Maybe we're different. I gotta say, strict is not our style.
It just seemed to me like some ppl were hating GS because some troops push for fund-raising. You have to raise funds or you can't go anywhere, you can't get patches, you can't get try it materials etc. The push for cookies is probably because they're a huge seller. It's the best opportunity to make the most money. Sure, they're rewarded with a patch and a stuffed animal but they're also rewarded with the things that can be done with the profits- like a really cool museum trip or one of those overnight things...

FTR- I'm totally with the OP. Call council. Look into other troops. Your DD participated in a fund-raiser, It isn't like you flaked out on it all.

and someone said something about boy/girl scouts and homosexuals.. idk if you're thinking they're affiliated but I'm pretty sure they aren't


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## Peppermint Leaf (Jan 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
That's lame DBZ. I think I would take it up with whoever is above her.

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I agree


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## DBZ (Aug 9, 2005)

I'm not sure calling the council would do much good. This leader is in charge of the other leaders in town or something. When I called the council about switching my kids before (after she complained about my dd being hyper) to see if there was a more welcoming troop, the person at the council made it sound like my troop leader could do no wrong *sigh*.

I plan to email people at my church and to a local autism group to see if there are any options. I'm sure kids are allowed to go to girl scouts in a different town.

And please don't judge the organization based on my post here or a few responses to it. We just finished our seventh year of girl scouts. My 13 yo has no intention of quiting and my 11 yo wouldn't if she could get a new troop. We've had several leaders over the years and all the rest were awesome. We did a lot of fun things that were affordable for everyone and did lots of fun service projects. This troop leader has a different personality then the rest.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

When I was in GS (many years ago) I went to a summer camp and shared a cabin with some girls from inner city KC. They were very urban (unlike small town me) and it was a great experience for me to spend a week with them. They were on some kind of scholarship or something, didn't sell anything or pay dues, they weren't even Girl Scouts, and I am so glad I got to go to camp with them. This is one of the kinds of experiences I hope my girls will get in GS when they are old enough.

I suppose I could say that the cookies I sold helped those girls to come to camp.

Now if they would make more vegan options, I would buy a lot more . . .


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## zeldamomma (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DBZ* 
I'm not sure calling the council would do much good. This leader is in charge of the other leaders in town or something. When I called the council about switching my kids before (after she complained about my dd being hyper) to see if there was a more welcoming troop, the person at the council made it sound like my troop leader could do no wrong *sigh*.

I plan to email people at my church and to a local autism group to see if there are any options. I'm sure kids are allowed to go to girl scouts in a different town.

And please don't judge the organization based on my post here or a few responses to it. We just finished our seventh year of girl scouts. My 13 yo has no intention of quiting and my 11 yo wouldn't if she could get a new troop. We've had several leaders over the years and all the rest were awesome. We did a lot of fun things that were affordable for everyone and did lots of fun service projects. This troop leader has a different personality then the rest.

Instead of calling, write a letter to the head of your local council. I would mention your dd's ADD as the reason you opted out of the second fundraiser, and include the leader's concern about your dd messing up her stats. If there's someone at the council who is inclined to ignore complaints about this woman, she'll have a harder time ignoring a complaint that's in writing, particularly one that suggests this woman is breaking rules AND refusing to make reasonable accommodations for a disabled troop member.

If you don't get a satisfactory response, send the letter to the national organization. They should know if a council isn't following the rules.

GL!

ZM


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## lindberg99 (Apr 23, 2003)

Have you ever thought about just letting her stay a Juliette? My DD dropped out of a troop here that was just really disorganized, etc when she was 9. We tried to start another one but didn't get enough girls so she went to Juliettes. Your dd can work on the badges on her own and can still go to all council activities, sell cookies (if she wants). My DD did sell cookies and is using the money she earned to go to a GS daycamp.

Juliettes isn't for everyone. You definitely don't have the "troop" camaraderie, although my DD hasn't missed that. Her troop was mostly girls from another school and they pretty much ignored her and another girl from her school.


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 







:

I'd sit down in a one-on-one with the leader to see if I could get a sense of her concerns. Then I'd take it up with the council.









:


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AAK* 
I would find another troop. With your other dd selling the cookies, I would say your family definitely contributed to the fund raiser (not to menion the nuts). However, even with the rule that you don't need to sell cookies, I can say it annoys me that our troop has no requirement at all. Our cookie money is used for a big end of year event and it honestly drives me nutty that the kids who sold NOTHING and contributed NOTHING still get to go free.

When I was in girl scouts, my mom was the leader. We didn't have anyone who was "financially strapped" in the troop. But everyone agreed to this: either you sell 4 cases of cookies (48 boxes) OR you write a check for what would have come to the troop. I really liked that because it required everyone to contribute one way or another.

Amy

When I was in gs we never had a minimum order. The only negative consequence of not selling was jealousy of that certain girl who always kicked all our butts with her sales numbers. I wonder if she went into sales!

Moms contributing their TIME were valued as much as their money.


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## zeldamomma (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AAK* 
I would find another troop. With your other dd selling the cookies, I would say your family definitely contributed to the fund raiser (not to menion the nuts). However, even with the rule that you don't need to sell cookies, I can say it annoys me that our troop has no requirement at all. Our cookie money is used for a big end of year event and it honestly drives me nutty that the kids who sold NOTHING and contributed NOTHING still get to go free.

Amy

Why does it "drive you nutty"? Sell what you want to sell, then stop. The other families can sell what they want to sell, and then the troop can do whatever they can afford with the money they have. Why would you want to punish a kid for not selling cookies? How would that make your or your daughter's life better?

Girls contribute to their troop by joining and participating in the meetings and activities-- anything financial is a bonus (and typically comes from their parents, not the girls, anyhow).


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Kicking a child out for not selling cookies is not OK (and, at 9, selling is as much the responsibility of the adult as it is the child - which means the child is being punished for the adults inaction).

I tend to think the troup leader wanted her out for one reason or another and used this as an excuse. I would withdraw your DC from that troup and take this issue higher.

That being said, many troups rely on girls selling an average number of boxes for their budget. In Canada, boxes are pre-orderred and I do not think the leaders can return them...

If you knew selling cookies was going to be a difficulty, you should have communicated this at the earliest possibilty (as a courtesay). Troup leaders can often help with organisational or selling issues. We can also be compassionate and reasonable- if your child is sick, you are new to the area or you have multiple children in girl scouts, seliing might be difficult. We just like to know in advance.









In general (not directed at OP whose family did fundraise):

For good or bad, we do rely on money from fundraising for programming. I think it is a positive lesson for children to learn that there is a cost to things they participate in, as well as expectations (such as: you will fund raise, within reason, and to the best of your ability).


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## Bad Horse (Mar 17, 2008)

I would go ahead and send a letter to the leader, cc'd to the head of the local counsil, AND to the National Council.

I ADORED my years spent in GS, they meant a lot to me, and that would never have flown in our council.

I did sell cookies, but we lived in an extremely impoverished rural area and we were certainly not the only ones who had problems just paying dues many years. But hello! The GS organization believes in giving ALL girls the chance to be part of this and reaping the benefits.

HOW can anyone say that a young girl doesn't deserve the chance to participate due to finances which is beyond her control? She cannot be held responsible for the actions of her parents, and how do you KNOW the parents' financial situation to make that judgment call on that in the first place.

ANYWAY, DBZ, this is crap for your daughter and I would not let this lie.







to your dd. That's really crappy. I cannot believe that woman had the nerve to do that. And then to even SAY that those were her reasons?! I think not.


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## cjanelles (Oct 22, 2005)

I'm wondering if there is some kind of "equal-opportunity" clause for the GSA. I'm guessing not, but I'm wondering if it is acceptable, legal (by state and Federal laws) and allowed by the council to make special requirements for children with disabilities? Such as requiring a parent to attend meetings and the like.

It would seem to me that the OP's children are being discriminated against because of their medical conditions, and that just screams to me of illegal. But, I also know that the Boy Scouts won a lawsuit that enabled them to refuse admittance of an atheist boy to their organization and also won the right to refuse homosexuals, as well...so maybe these "family" organizations aren't required to do much by way of treating people fairly and justly and no one who runs the stuff really cares?

I won't have my DD in Girl Scouts. There are plenty of other much-less-judgmental organizations for kids to participate in and I choose to have my kids involved with those types of extra-curricular activities instead.


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## icesk8 (Jan 3, 2008)

That is horrible that your leader kicked your daughters out of their troop, and my family has also experienced some bad leaders. My sister wasn't allowed to join the troop at her school because we had just moved to the area and had no family/ didn't know anyone that well and my sister would not have an emergency contact







The school is a 5 min drive from our house and my mom is a SAHM so its not like they would never be able to reach anyone, but my mom did learn that my sister was better off not even being in the troop the leader was so difficult.


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## nancyw (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cjanelles* 
I'm wondering if there is some kind of "equal-opportunity" clause for the GSA. I'm guessing not, but I'm wondering if it is acceptable, legal (by state and Federal laws) and allowed by the council to make special requirements for children with disabilities? Such as requiring a parent to attend meetings and the like.

EXCELLENT Points/questions.

had a similar experience with Girl Scouts years ago when I worked with children with disabilities in a children's home. we tried SOOOOOO hard to get the 'circle of friends' person to call us back (she was the 'welcoming diversity' P.R. person.) tried for about 2 months. MANY MANY phone calls. when she finally called back she kept going around and around, not agreeing that they could just come and join the troup, then finally she said --real sweet and 'oily' like, "well can you give me a profile of [the 2 girls we were trying to get into the group]?"
a _PROFILE_?!?!???














:







.....

...meanwhile, not only did she ALREADY know quite well who the girls were--because they had attended the GS camp for just a few days the year before--but they had a picture of one of them that they were using in their advertisement material (because she was in a wheel chair. great PR for them. you know? disgusting.)

my agency ended up writing a letter to this woman and her boss, and her boss's boss.....(and we, of course, included the picture from their own brochure--and asked in the letter if all families were required to give a 'profile' of their child in order for their child to join) BIG to-do.
all of them were very defensive. unapologetic. only let our girls attend after that with one on one aides from work and we had to supply our own ramp.

it turned me off from GS for life







:....


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## nancyw (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cjanelles* 
But, I also know that the Boy Scouts won a lawsuit that enabled them to refuse admittance of an atheist boy to their organization and also won the right to refuse homosexuals, as well...so maybe these "family" organizations aren't required to do much by way of treating people fairly and justly and no one who runs the stuff really cares?

I won't have my DD in Girl Scouts. There are plenty of other much-less-judgmental organizations for kids to participate in and I choose to have my kids involved with those types of extra-curricular activities instead.

agree 100%, cjanelles.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

AAK wrote:

Quote:

When I was in girl scouts, my mom was the leader. We didn't have anyone who was "financially strapped" in the troop. But everyone agreed to this: either you sell 4 cases of cookies (48 boxes) OR you write a check for what would have come to the troop. I really liked that because it required everyone to contribute one way or another.
I can understand appreciating the fairness of that, but AFAIK it has never been allowed by national policy, certainly not since I have been a leader. For my first couple of years, we were allowed to say, "Girls who did not sell cookies must pay their own way for this activity because it is being paid for with cookie profits." The policy changed in about 2004; now we can do that only if we announce BEFORE the sale what the activity is going to be. Both old and new policies distiguish only between girls who sold ANY amount and girls who sold zero. We are not allowed to require a minimum amount of sales. A policy like your mom had is feasible only for middle-to-upper-class families and those who can spend a lot of time helping their daughters find customers. I wasn't able to sell 48+ boxes for my first 4 years of Scouts, until the number of Scouts in my immediate neighborhood decreased, and my parents wouldn't have shelled out $168 from their own pockets.

Policies about cookie sales (and everything else) are spelled out in _Safety-Wise_, the "rules bible" of Girl Scouts USA. Your council resource center should have a copy to check out, or at least you can look at it in the council store. Citing page numbers and such may be helpful if you have to argue with anybody really difficult.









MommyinIL1976 wrote:

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My sons don't participate in the boy scouts either. DH and I weren't pleased with their stance on homosexuals and we had a den mother tell us our oldest son wouldn't be allowed to be in cub scouts because we are atheists.
I'm with you on that, but Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are two totally separate organizations in the United States. Girl Scouts do NOT discriminate based on sexual orientation or religion. If a girl does not believe in God or does not speak the name of God, she may substitute whatever word she prefers in the Girl Scout Promise.

Mandynee22 wrote:

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the things that the troop does cost money and since you can't just leave kids out who don't bring any in, how do you expect them to participate? Do you think it's fair that families who contribute nothing get to do the same as ones who did contribute?
I don't think it's fair for a family to contribute NOTHING, but I've never had that actually happen. In my troop this year, I had a girl with a very-pregnant single mom who (the girl) had a big role in a play during cookie season; she took no orders, and her share of booth sales was about 20 boxes--but she was conscientious with her dues, her mom had been a big help on our camping weekend earlier in the year, and because of acting she missed about half of our pricey activities. I also had a girl whose single mom was living on student loans when she was hit by a car last year; they're now on disability and struggling to repay the loans, and mom has a lot of pain and can't do much; this girl told me at the beginning of the year that she wouldn't be able to pay dues and asked if she could still be a Scout







and I said it was fine; she took just a few orders and came to just one sale--but she's got true financial need, and when we have a "the troop is paying $10 and you pay $5" type of arrangement for an event, she always brings the money. So, in both cases I felt it was fair for the girls who could earn more to "float" these girls. They bring a lot to our troop in other ways, and Girl Scouting is about working together for our common good!









DBZ wrote:

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She definately did say that she was knocking my DD down to juliette status for not selling cookies. She said something about it messing up her stats or percentages or something.








What kind of crapola is that?! The only "stats" I can think of relate to average number of boxes sold AMONG GIRLS WHO SELL.

cjanelles wrote:

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I'm wondering if it is acceptable, legal (by state and Federal laws) and allowed by the council to make special requirements for children with disabilities?
I don't know about the law, but it is GSUSA policy that Girl Scouting is for ALL girls and we MUST make it possible for them to participate. Of course, there can be problems for leaders getting the resources they need; councils are not always as responsive as they should be. Make a fuss!

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I won't have my DD in Girl Scouts. There are plenty of other much-less-judgmental organizations
What is it about Girl Scouts that you think is judgmental?


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## Mandynee22 (Nov 20, 2006)

> I'm with you on that, but Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are two totally separate organizations in the United States. Girl Scouts do NOT discriminate based on sexual orientation or religion. If a girl does not believe in God or does not speak the name of God, she may substitute whatever word she prefers in the Girl Scout Promise.
> 
> 
> > I was going to say this too- I think it's really common for people to think that GS and BS are related because they just sound like they are. One of the guys at work (openly gay) told me that I was lucky he was buying cookies because he doesn't like to support anti-gay organizations. I told him that it's OK if he doesn't want any but that they're not related and GS isn't against gay people or I wouldn't be "in" it (I guess I technically am, I did pay my 10 bucks LOL). I think he ended up buying 2 cases when all was said and done woohoo


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