# This thread is dedicated to Moms who are EB older children



## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Hello everyone, I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread for those who are practicing child-led and/or child-respectful weaning beyond toddlerhood. Let's keep this a safe haven where we can share ideas, concerns, questions and support for each other and continue this wonderful cyber-sisterhood that we have started on other threads in this forum (newcomers are welcome too!). Everyone is welcome here (to share and learn) but I ask that it remain respectful. Please refrain from any type of harrassment, negativity, debate or criticism towards breastfeeding an older child. We want all Mamas to feel safe here.

Let's start the thread by asking all EN Moms to write a short post just telling us that you are here and how old your EB child is. Strength in numbers, right? If you want to tell us more, or start a discussion, please do!

I hope this thread stays alive! The more the merrier!

Mother_Sunshine








(nursing dd 6yrs 1/16/97)


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

Well, I don't know if I exactly fall into this category but I would like to! My dd2 is 2 1/2 years old. She nurses pretty much whenever she wants too. I have to limit her sometimes because of the new baby. I definately plan to do child led weaning. Some days are harder than others. I have support from a couple of good friends. She is the first of my children to nurse this long. I wish I had done it everytime.

Thanks for starting this thread!


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Our son self-weaned at 5 yrs 1 month of age. I didn't start out intending this. I started out only focussed on that we Would nurse, and I'd do what I needed to succeed. Fortunately he took to it like a duckling to water, despite undermining stupid advice and a couple of small bottles of sugar water.

During his first year, I still hadn't pondered length of nursing, a friend sent me a copy of Mothering Magazine. I subscribed and learned about WHO's recommendation of two years minimum, and then about childlead weaning. Seeing no reason to push him to wean I decided we'd do childlead.







We had a supportive enough ped until he turned 4, then fired the jerk we saw for his 4 yr check-up and left that practice--as the supportive ped already had...

DD, 4 in a month, is still nursing, still shares our room though that is being discussed. Main obstacle is what shall we do with all the stuff in the current computer room--which will be her room.


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## tnrsmom (Apr 8, 2002)

Thanks for starting this thread.









My dd is 39 mos and nurses a few times a day. Sometimes once, sometimes 3 or 4 times. I am also nursing my dd #2 but I don't look at her as EN as she is only 14mos.







I am pregnant with my 5th child and this is my 3rd time nursing through pg as well as my 2nd time tandem nursing through pg. I plan on letting my children wean when they are ready. My ds #2 weaned just before our last baby was born. It worked out great for me as I did not really want to nurse three but I would not force him to wean before he was ready. He did nurse a few times after the baby was born but just because he wanted to know he still could. I never denied him. I am not sure if Rachel will do the same thing (I doubt it) but as we have set limits on her nursing frequency, I am OK with the idea that she may continue to nurse after the baby is born.


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## Beth-TX (Jun 11, 2002)

Stephanie

I just wanted to say that you're hard core! I'm nursing my 2yo and I'm 8 wks pg and just in misery! I can't imagine nursing 2 kiddos! Good on ya!

To all the ladies here, great job! Keep on truckin'!

peace, Beth


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## Mallory (Jan 2, 2002)

Well my oldest nurser is 3 1/2. He still nurses all the time, I haven't counted lately, but I would be surprised if he ever goes 4 hours day or night, I would bet at least 10 times a day and 2 or 3 most nights. Breastmilk is still a large part of his daily calories, when he is hungry he usually asks to nurse not for food.

I am sure we have at least a year left probably two.


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

My oldest nurser is also 3.5 years old, although she nurses only at night time now (and when she is upset...).

I'm also pregnant - it's my first time tandem-nursing through a pregnancy...we'll see how it goes. I'm not thrilled about nursing 3, but since dd1 doens't nurse very often, I'm sure I can handle it if that's what ends up happening.


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## tnrsmom (Apr 8, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Beth-TX_
*Stephanie

I just wanted to say that you're hard core! I'm nursing my 2yo and I'm 8 wks pg and just in misery! I can't imagine nursing 2 kiddos! Good on ya!
*
Beth, I have very easy pregnancies. Also, it does tend to get easier after the first 12 weeks. You are in the tough time right now. That is when I had to get Rachel to stop nursing 20 times a day. Literally.

Also, the decision to tandem nurse is very personal. Not everyone wants to do that. Don't feel bad if you don't.


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## tnrsmom (Apr 8, 2002)

Carolyn, I feel the Exact same way. If Rachel was still nursing constantly, I am sure I'd feel different about nursing 3.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Meiri_
*I didn't start out intending this. I started out only focussed on that we Would nurse, and I'd do what I needed to succeed. Fortunately he took to it like a duckling to water, despite undermining stupid advice and a couple of small bottles of sugar water.

During his first year, I still hadn't pondered length of nursing, a friend sent me a copy of Mothering Magazine. I subscribed and learned about WHO's recommendation of two years minimum, and then about childlead weaning. Seeing no reason to push him to wean I decided we'd do childlead.







*
Meiri, the same thing happened to us, a couple of bottles of "necessary" sugar water (without my consent, before I knew better








) gave us a difficult start in nursing w/poor latch, torn nipples, extreme stress and recurring mastitis. If it hadn't been for the help of a generous LC (has anybody heard of Bonnie Bartman?







) we wouldn't have made it past the first 2 weeks. I wish our ped. was as supportive, she discouraged bf past 1 year, but that was when I stopped looking at Western medicine as "the law", so she actually helped me in that respect.

Unfortunately I hadn't heard of Mothering Magazine until dd was probably 3yrs (when I first got internet access) or that would have made a tremendous impact on me as a new parent. I was one of those mainstreamed new mothers who subscribed to all the mainstreamed parenting magazines (the ones they give "for free" in the hospital & the ones that are in the sweepstakes lists) and sat all day every day reading them in the rocking chair as my dd nursed all day long. I was one big contradiction of what I was reading...what I read was the complete opposite of what felt right. Lucky for us, I followed my instincts but not without a lot of frustration and heartache those first few years. I kept thinking "what is wrong with us?", when it really was "what is wrong with them"!

We also didn't set out to nurse a certain amount of time, actually I thought that babies automatically stopped at one year as that was the impression that the magazines and "What to expect.." books gave me. So we took it one year at a time and each year it felt more right to continue something so wonderful rather than forcing her to stop simply because "they" said so.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

nak

errr...those 'what to expect' books push so hard for weaning at 1year it makes me sick.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

I'm nursing Dd#1 (30months) and an 8 month baby.

DD is down to 2x day now. I can't say I enjoy tandem nursing and have to grit my teeth to nurse my toddler now.









I'd love her to wean - not much chance though - although I'd be really sad. I have initiated the cut back. If I folowed my ideal of child led weaning she'd nurse more than the baby.







:

It reached the stage where I didnt want to sit down near her as she'd pounce. ouch. I feel sad and guilty, but the dislike of nursing her is so so so strong......







:

I admire those who tandem nurse more successfully.


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## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

I'm nursing my only son, who is 2.5 years old. When he was born, I knew I would nurse, but I did not really have an idea of how long. I guess I have followed my intuition on this one. It has never yet seemed the right time to wean and, now, having gone so long, I have pretty much decided that my son will determine when it's the "right" time. He only nurses 1-2 times per day at this point.


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## rockymtnmama (Dec 7, 2001)

I'm nursing my 3 1/2 year old and 15 month old. My 3 1/2 year old probably nurses 3-4 times a day but no longer at night. They are both still in my bed and I am really thankful that we are still nursing because dh and I are going through a divorce right now and I think it has been so helpful to my older child that he can still nurse. It has given him comfort and security during a very insecure time. Sometimes I really wish he would hurry up and wean but I also know that he is not ready yet. Nursing is so important to him. It's nice to know there are others out there committed to child-led weaning. All of a sudden in the last month or so several friends and family members have started asking me why I don't just wean him. As though it were that easy! I think extended nursing is very hard for people who haven't "been there" to understand. I can't exactly explain how impossible it would be for me to forcefully wean this child. It would break his heart!


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## tnrsmom (Apr 8, 2002)

Britishmum, I can relate to the feeling of not enjoying the older one. I too have not followed the child led weaning. While I am not asking her to stop altogether, I did have to set limits. I had gotten to the point where I was actually starting to resent her. It was very difficult at first and probably not even very gentle. I would get very upset and flat out refuse to nurse her. Luckily this did not last very long. Now that she only nurses in the morning and at bedtime, I am totally fine with it. There are days when she doesn't feel good when we can nurse a bit more but she also understands if she just asks because she is bored, she will have to wait until bedtime. I plan on letting her nurse as long as she wants but not as often as she wants.

Nursing is a couple relationship. When one part of the couple is no longer comfortable with the situation, it is time to make a change. Good luck to you.


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## rosebudsmom (Nov 19, 2001)

Hello moms, I am a very proud mom of a girl who self weaned at 5 1/2. years. Letting her choose when to stop gave her lots of confidence in herself. I have to admit I was always a little nervous to just go with the flow(pun intended) but I trust my daughter and she taught me to trust myself. I am grateful that our nursing relationship lasted for so long. DD had her first major ear infection and upper resp. infection after she weaned. If only I could still provide her with those same antibodies forever! Cheers.


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## zo's ma (Mar 4, 2003)

My olderst just turned 4 on the 6th, he shows No signs of stopping anytime soon! He really picked up when the baby came along...I figure he wants to be there with the baby or he doesn't want her getting one up on him, lol. He nurses more often than I'd like...I guess nursing two I just get *touched out* sometimes.

I never thought I'd nurse this long, I was one who thought I'd nurse for 6 weeks then go back to work. I didn't go back to work, set a new goal for 6 months...then a year. Finally I stopped setting goals and here we are!


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## milk4two (Mar 20, 2003)

I am tandem nursing my 2 1/2 yr old and my 6 month old. I believe in child led weaning and I don't think my toddler will wean anytime soon. She nurses more than the baby. I hope she does wean around age 4 though, as I would like to have another baby someday and really don't want to tandem nurse through pregnancy.

Adria


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## darlindeliasmom (Nov 19, 2001)

Hi, ladies. Thought I'd chime in here.. . esp. since DD actually "nursed" out of the blue again today. First time in like a month or longer.
She was 6 in January, and is VERY attached...really needs this anchor to go out into the world. I am happy to give it to her.

Let me also take this moment to salute all you long-term tandem nursers. That is a hard job for many.


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## Jazmommie (Nov 19, 2001)

My dd turned 4 yesterday,she is just this week getting busy & preoccupied playing ,learning,etc & cutting down to 4-5 times a day & a couple at night -early am.
It happens so gradually & is ok with me .
I am so glad to be nursing her when she gets a stomach virus & can not eat foods.I can give her the best antibodies through me.

This is my 3rd EB child so this not new to me .#1 weaned at age 4 1/2 ,# 2 weaned at age 5.

So glad for the support here-I know no one in my area nursing older than 3 year olds.


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

Mine weaned at 5.8 years and I never intended on nursing much past the age of 2. She weaned in June and has had an ear infection (healed now but still on the meds) and was talking a lot about nursing the last week. She didn't actually nurse but came very close.

All is back to normal, she feels better and hasn't talked about nursing the past 2 days. She is now 6 1/2 years old.

She is very independent and very loving toward everyone. I think she turned out preety good


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## Solange (Apr 10, 2002)

Hi everyone..
This is a great thread and I love to read all about other child led weaning mothers and their nursing journeys....thanks so much Mother sunshine for this post.....

I am nursing my 34 month old ds.
He is nursing some days more than others, but always before bedtime, while we read books, and during the night. He nurses when he is tired, upset, or ill and at times too if he is hungry he would rather nurse than eat....
I still nip and have no issues doing so and his conversations with me now about nursing have really assured me that we are doing what is best for us.

I was one of those who said I will only nurse for 3 months and then when 3 months came, I will only nurse for 6 months and once we hit 1 y/o...I said forget it...this is so peaceful and makes parenting a lot easier....he will wean when he is ready...
...and can I just add that I have the most supportive dh and how thankful I am for him


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## LaLaLuna (Jun 23, 2002)

Hi all you mamas







I'm nursing my 3 y.o. I have to admit that right now I'm struggling with child-led weaning. I feel like mostly I"m DONE but somehow I never get around to insisting on it :LOL

I weaned my first son at 2.9 when I was 7 months pregnant- I just couldn't get through those last two months (it was ugly) so I'm hoping to go further with ds2. It's hard, though. Dh wants me to wean (not because he thinks ds is too old but b/c he sees how hard it is for me).

For you mamas who have made it all the way to child-deciding when to wean and for you who tandem nurse...







If any of you have ideas on how to keep going when you're at the end of you resources, feel free to share!!!


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## mamarosa (Oct 6, 2002)

I managed to struggle through nursing while pg, and when dd was born, ds was wanting to nurse all the time, after he had been down to once a day. While I appretiated having somone to take the extra milk, I started really resenting having him ask to nurse while I was doing other things. Like it wasn't enought to have to stop what I was doing to nurse the newborn, now my 3 1/2 y/o expected that of me too?! I don't think so. I really had to hold back, it made me feel really angry at times (post partum emotions too).
But we have leveled off pretty well. Now ds nurses in the morning. The only drag is that he is waking up so much earlier than he used to. And also, we are dealing with him being rude to me in the mornings. He will yell angrily or kick me if I don't wake up right away to nurse him. That is a problem for me because nursing is really personal and intimate, and I won't let myself be used by someone who isn't respecting me. I have communicated all of this to him and it is getting better.
I don't know when he'll be done for good, probably not for a while yet.


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Britishmum and tnrsmom - I can so relate to not enjoying nursing an older child. I really dislike the sensation of my 3.5 year old nursing these days.









I can date my own personal irritation with nursing dd1 to the middle of December - when I got pregnant (but about a month before I found out I was pregnant) - so I think it must have something to do with pregnancy hormones. Funnily enough, though, it doesn't bother me at all when dd2 nurses (she is almost 2).

Luckily, dd1 only really nurses at night...only very occasionally during the day. And I've also been lucky in that she's dropped the morning and daytime nursings herself without encouragement from me (that I've been aware of, although maybe she's picked up on some of my feelings?).

At night, I time it - I make sure I let her nurse for at least 5-6 minutes. I just don't let myself stop before then (although sometimes she'll pull off earlier herself, which is always nice!).

I figure that it's only 5 minutes of irritation for me, and it's really important to dd1. I can't imagine forcing her to stop nursing, you know? It just wouldn't feel right.

I'm sorry to hear, though, Britishmum, that it's still difficult 8 months later - I was hoping things had gotten easier for you.







I guess I also was hoping that my own negative feelings would ease up (they always have in the past, but not this time)...

Ah, well - it's still worth it. As much as I personally would like dd1 to wean before #3 arrives, it does make me sad as well, as I know how important nursing is for her, and I like that she continues to receive the benefits of at least some breastmilk each day...


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Thanks Carolyn - it was so helpful for me at the start to know that others felt the same.

I can handle our 2x day now but they are very short. I just couldn't physically handle 5 mins - I admire your grit! Dd is ok with it now, and I like to think that she's forgotten the trauma of the first couple of months.

I want to cry if I think of her weaning, but I long for her to wean.







: But at least I don't feel angry at her now we've cut out the daytime nursing.









I wonder also what I'll do if we have another baby in a year or so. Dd #1 will have to wean beforehand, and I dont know what I'd do about dd#2..........


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I am no longer EBing an older child (DD weaned earlier this month at 50 months and DS is only 18 months) but just wanted to give a big



































to all the mommas with "older" nurslings!

Kay


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## LittlebitsMommy (Feb 24, 2003)

Hi Everyone! My name is Marcia and I am a mom to 3,but Littlebit is the first for me to BF.I wish so much that I would have nursed the other 2.I was 15 when I had my first and really didn't even think about it.BUt with my second I had really wanted to BF,but I had to have emergency kidney syrgery while I was pregnant and I was told I would be unable to BF because when he was born they would have to do more tomy kidneys.I wish I would not have listened to them.I have had the same thing done 4 times to my kidneys since I have had Littlebit and never had to stop nursing.Littlebit is almost 37 moths old and still nurses 10 times a day and a couple of times at night.I never knew how long we would nurse.No one in my family had ever even thought about nursing and thought I was insane to even try it.
All I knew was we were going to do.I didn't care what everyone else thought.We have been told by so many people to stop breastfeeding,but we never listened.Littlebit has been really sick from the start.HE spent some tome in the PICU and has had 5 surgeries for different things. And I have had 4 kidney surgeries.We were in a really bad auto accident too.BUT he never had to have a bottle.I think all that we have been through has made us alot closer and stronger.I still don't know how long he will nurse but I am leaving it up to him.I still don't care what others think I know I am doing what is best for me and him.My DH and older kids have always been such supporters of my BF.I love them all so much.I love our Nursing so much too.
I am sorry if this got to long.


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## carmen veranda (Jan 27, 2003)

You mamm's rock. My "baby" is going to be three in 10 days. She nurses at story time at night and sometimes in the morning. She says s"he loves





















it!"
I thought she weaned herself earlier this week, but she just forgot to have her numma numma's!!!
Here's to all the nursing mamma's!!!!


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## chie96 (Apr 2, 2003)

I'm Laurie - new to the forums this week - and EB my DD (18.5 mos). We plan to let her decide when to wean and at the rate she nurses it isn't going to be anytime soon!

We are going to start ttc#2 next month and I really hope she doesn't wean once we do get pg. I think the greatest thing would be to tandem nurse (hope I'm not crazy







for saying that)!!!


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

heya. do i qualify because i don't really consider tandeming with an 8 month old and a 28 month old 'eb'?







really, i weaned (yes, my *strong* suggestion! oh, now i can't play here, lol!) my 7 yr old some years back; am i really in the club with a mere 2 yr old?

hehe, suse


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## darlindeliasmom (Nov 19, 2001)

does the 28-mo-old ever stand up to nurse? That's the real sign of a long-term EBFer!!















But seriously, tandem nursers get to play in my book! The older child ALWAYS looks so big when you've got that newborn in your arms!


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## chie96 (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by darlindeliasmom_
> *does the 28-mo-old ever stand up to nurse? That's the real sign of a long-term EBFer!!
> 
> LOL - my 18 month old has been standing since at least 12 months! She loves to stand up, twist around, and would probably hang upside-down if she could! :LOL Lately I can just sit sideways in our den chairs (they are overstuffed / oversized - I sit with my back against one arm and feet hanging over the opposite arm) and she just walks up and nurses! I really need to get DH to take some pictures...it's too funny!*


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## Mallory (Jan 2, 2002)

A couple days ago my 3 1/2 year old and I were getting in the shower. He was standing by the side of the tub and I leaned down to turn on the shower and he said "Oh wow nursers" and latched right on!


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## mimmy (Feb 6, 2002)

Ds will be three in a couple of weeks - he still "nurts" as much as he did when he was one. If I let him, he'd nurt all day. Actually, sometimes that is his suggestion of what we should do when we get up in the morning, "Mimmy, it is cold and wet out, let's nurt all day!".


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## mshollyk (Sep 24, 2002)

my son just up and quit nursing in December, and he turned 4 in Feb. i was 4 months pg when he stopped, and i hate to say it, but it was a good thing he did because it was fairly excruciating. i had heard about child-led weaning, of course, but i didn't think it would be as easy as it was...

anyway, cheers to all you EB'ers, and when people make comments, don't pay them any mind. only YOU know what's best for you and your child


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Mallory, when DS was a toddler and did this while standing in his crib I decided it was time to start wearing a nightshirt.









It Was funny, once...


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

I just put some links and quotes (pro EN) on the thread "help!! rude comments..........." by spu on this board.


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## Reiki Mama (Jan 31, 2002)

My one and only turned 4 in February 2003, and we're still nursing -- quite a lot. Most days are better than others, both in terms of frequency and my response to it. The thought of her weaning makes me sad, though sometimes I wish she only nursed at night, and before falling asleep. I just miscarried at 9 weeks, and the annoying little mainstream voice in my head questions whether I would have lost the baby had I not been nursing. My more evolved voice tells me the nursing had nothing to do with the miscarriage, and I try to honor that and ignore the other. I haven't read through all the replies to this thread, but I hope to, and I do think it is a good idea. I'm proud to be an EB mama!

Peace.


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## Wooby (Oct 8, 2002)

My nursling is only 22 months old, but I just wanted to throw my support in here to all the wonderful mamas following the respectful path of child-led weaning. What beautiful, secure little people we are all growing!


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## Parthenia (Dec 12, 2001)

Dd will be 4 at the end of May, and she nurses at night, for about 20 seconds on each side. She's been doing this for about six months. Before that she nursed several times a day and loved to hang out at the breast. It was getting to be a little too much for me, but she wasn't ready to stop. There were few 5 minute nursings, she mostly liked to nurse for really long stretches, several times a day, which was just taxing! So I started counting to 20 while she nursed, and at 20 we were done on that side. We no longer count, and sometimes she nurses for longer--like 3 minutes. Now she likes to hold my breasts or lay on them as much as she takes nip sips. The end is near! I am not really sad to see this part of our relationship end because she's finding other ways to snuggle and be close to mama. The breast holding gets a little annoying, especially when she starts twiddling like she did as a 1 yo. Dh and I sometimes call dd "The Groper"!

Dd talks about nursing a lot and has friends who still nurse, or EN. She talks about how this or that person "nurses her mama's nips" and they're big kids like her. If I ask her when she thinks she'll stop nursing, she either ignores me or says when she's as big as one of her older friends (12 yo!







) I hope she'll always remember that she was EBF, especially if she decides to have children. It won't be weird to her!

The LLL book "Mothering Your Nursing Toddler" has been a great source of support and help for me. I never expected to be nursing a preschooler. If we have more babies I'd do it again, even though I have not enjoyed all of it. For a while there it was impossible to sit near dd without getting the "more nip" demand. At times I wished she'd let me read her books or just snuggle like she does with dh and her grandparents. OTOH DD has benefitted from it tremendously physically and emotionally, and nursing made parenting sooo much easier those first two years. No getting up in the middle of the night, no worry of dehydration when she was sick, etc, and I learned to be really good at one handed typing!


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## Peace4all (Jan 16, 2002)

What a great thread! While I am thrilled to see everyone here, I do wish there were more moms of older children. My ds will be 5 in June. I really don't keep track, but I'd say in a 24 hour period he nurses 3 or 4 times. Sometimes that is less and sometimes it is more. He nurses to sleep of course, and we do still have the family bed. I can see that he nurses less as he gets older, but nursing is still so important to him that I cannot foresee when he will wean. (I suspect it will be quite awhile) That is fine with me, but I must say there is sense of validation and support in seeing other mothers with older nurslings. I know in my heart that child-led weaning is best for my child, I believe he is a child that needs this connection with me until he decides he no longer needs it. I believe that it would be harmful to him if I decided when to wean him. I don't have a problem with age, and I think a child should nurse for as long as they need it. That said though, as he gets older, I become more and more aware of what a minority we are. The support and validation from threads such as this is so important to not only myself, but I am sure many others who are, or will nurse older children. So please keep this thread going! Thanks and blessings to you and your families

.


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## tnrsmom (Apr 8, 2002)

Parthenia, please edit your signature to 2 lines per MDC guidelines. Thanks,
Stephanie









BTW, your mailbox is full


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Glad you're here Peace4all


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## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

Why haven't I seen this thread before? It's not like I don't spend a lot of time here







:

DD is 3y8m, and a busy nurser. I'm 6 months pg, and it's slowed down a bit due to my sensitive body and decreasing milk supply over the last 3 months. She nurses in the morning, and between 6 and 10 times a day (usually). Lots of pick me up snax









I have one inverted nipple that never came out well, so she only nurses on one side. I imagine that ds will develop a preference for the same boob, but luckily dd has recently granted that she can share "her favite titty"









I'm starting to call it xbf. Xtreme Breastfeeding :LOL

It's so good to be at a place where people say their one nursling is "only" 18 months old


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## mamabeard (Sep 27, 2002)

(i'm stalking you, simonee..)

hi.. i haven't seen this thread before either, nor have i read throo all the replies yet, but i just wanted to introduce myself before i forget. my son is 3 and a quarter and i am 5 months pregnant. he averages about 4 milkings a day. before nap, before bed, sometimes when he wakes up, and almost any time i lay down (which is either funny and cute or annoying, depending on my mood).

i plan on self weaning too, but i have been disouraging a little here and there, keeping it generally to bedtimes and when he's hurt enough to want to.


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## KakuChan (Apr 16, 2002)

Good to read all these. My ds is three and a quarter and nurses 5-8x a day, plus once or twice at night. I'm seven weeks pregnant, and all of a sudden my family is suggesting I wean. Not that they think I'm damaging the children, just that my body can't take it. I've always been really thin and my parents are worried I'll just whittle away to nothing. I won't, of course, and luckily dh and my midwife are really supportive of EBF.

Not that I can imagine weaning my incredibly intense, incredibly persistent ds. I *am* a little worried about starting in a co-op preschool in the fall. Guess I'll just talk with the teacher and see what she suggests, whether there is somewhere private for us to go if ds needs to nurse.

We moved in October and I don't have any of my great AP friends around, so ds never sees other big kids nursing. It really bugs me. And the mothers of some of his friends are irritated that I nurse in front of their children because it causes the kids to ask questions that make the moms uncomfortable. The questions are just normal curiosity, but some of them then ask their moms to nurse and it can really upset or annoy the moms. Sigh.

Glad to see this thread. I've been feeling pretty isolated lately.


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## LaLaLuna (Jun 23, 2002)

Ok- so with all you moms who've been nursing since the dawn of time (sure seems like it sometimes, doesn't it?







) I have the perfect focus group to answer a question.

I've been nursing for nearly 6 years straight (I had a two month break at the end of my last pregnancy-actively weaned ds1 because I just couldn't take it anymore plus my body was really trying to go into premature labor) and I have come to realize in the past few months that my nipples always feel bruised. Even when ds isn't nursing, it just feels like I have these two big ol' bruises hanging on the ends of my tatas. Has anyone else experienced this? Is it just that he's nursing harder? (possible) or what? He only nurses 3-4 times a day now, mostly at sleeping or waking up times. I must say, I'm not fond of this constant ache feeling and would love some advice on how to relieve it.


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## Xenogenesis (May 1, 2002)

Mine got real sore for the past couple of months till I came to the conclusion that it was possibly a combination of the stronger suck reflex cuz of increased appetite, thirst and simply now a larger boy and maybe residual food or drink other than water in my son's mouth. I have been reminding him to "nurse like a baby", bringing him into a quieter area of the house if he seems distracted, offering a drink of water when he starts this or asking if he wants <insert food item here>. When he's been eating something and wants to nurse quite soon after (like usual) I strongly encourage him to rinse his mouth with water and allow him to spit it into the bathtub. This generally ensures his cooperation to rinse a few times since he has so much fun doing it. The soreness has gotten much better.


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## Mallory (Jan 2, 2002)

Hi,
Did everyone know they were going to do child led weaning? And did you know that meant you were going to be nursing for years?

Everyone in my family nurses. I always knew I would nurse my boys, I just had no idea that 3 1/2 year old still like to nurse







My brother and sister both weaned around a year (my stepmom worked full time and could never pump so they had a lot of formula at the babysitters and both weaned even though (especially with my sister who was only 9 months old) my stepmom really tried to keep nursing). My cousins all weaned around a year too, maybe one or two made it to 18 months, but not two years old, and all seemed to wean pretty easily then. I am the oldest grandchild so I do remember, they are all much younger, none are out of high school and my sister and brother are in elementry school. I weaned at about 4 months, because my mom had no milk because she was pregnagnt







and that brother was premature and never did latch on right, he is the only one in the grandkid generation not to nurse.

So here I am nursing my 3 1/2 year old and almost 2 year old and I really had no idea that 2 and 3 and 4 year olds really liked/needed/wanted to nurse.

How long did you think you would be nursing your children?


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## darlindeliasmom (Nov 19, 2001)

I can answer Mallory's question, but I don't really have any experience with what you describe, Luna. Sorry.

Mallory: I thought DD would nurse 2-3 yrs. My family nurses, but most babes are weaned by a yr. My one SIL nursed her youngest 'til 4, and I thought that reasonable. And in retrospect it was at about age 4 that the intense desire went away for DD. She continues to ask for it...just yesterday again, and she is 6 yrs, 3 mos.
I'm surprised how attached she still is to the breast. It's not like she isn't in my lap for other things half the day... But there's no milk...


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Did I post in this thread already?









Anyway, my oldest weaned at 3&abit, my DD has yet to wean at 3&almosthalf (& baby's still a baby ... only 1&change).

And as I type my 3.5 DD is nagging me to brush her hair ... because that's morning nursing time.

And I'm typing instead.

We pushed DS#1 to wean at 3, and (I) decided not to do the same with DD ... though at this exact moment, I'm regretting that decision. She's very cute, but is so ... well, you know.

At bedtime I don't mind it, but during the day am really not thrilled when she nags to nurse, because she only gets forceful about it when she's trying really hard to hold in a poop. (I'd find the links to the threads about her holding in her poops, but there are probably too many ...







)

Anyway, support is a fine thing ...


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

Mallory

I thought I would nurse my first for about a year and my second for 18 months to no more than 2 years.

So my son weaned right before a year and to my surprrise (pleasant







my dd weaned at 5.8 years and I was actually shocked when she told me she was ready to wean


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

It's good to see you here Cindy, I was wondering if you'd venture over here.









Mallory, I planned to bf 1 year. I had no idea what child-led weaning was until it happened :LOL. That was when I researched it and found that it had a name and that I wasn't the only one. I ran on pure instincts and felt very alone until then (which was when dd was 3.5).


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## imakebelieve (May 5, 2002)

I am so glad to read these postings. I am nursing my 4 year old son and I am the one with the oldest nurser. I know he is going to nurse for the long haul. He loves his "nannies". I am starting to feel a little funny when people hear he is "still" nursing. But, I know it is best for him and that is what is important. He was a preemie and it took me 3 months of pumping to teach him to nurse, so, I am not just giving up so soon







.

Also, It drives my mom crazy, but that is just a bonus









But, I am very glad to know I am not the only one. Have any of you had people ask you if you are worried about your child being taken away from you for EN? I get very nervous when people ask me about this. My mom is concerned about it. But, I am more concerned about her causing a problem for me than anyone else. This is usually the first thing people bring up when they hear he is still nursing. Odd.

I do have lots of friends now that probably will nurse as long as I am, but right now their kids are younger. I never intended to nurse this long either, it just happened. I know will be very sad when he is weaned. Heck, I was a little depressed when he was potty trained. We aren't having anymore babies, so I am cherishing every moment


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## grian (Feb 26, 2003)

Thank you all for sharing.

I am tandem nursing my 2 yo and my 4 month old. After reading all your stories I am feeling back on track with my intentions for child led weaning


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## Reiki Mama (Jan 31, 2002)

Hello, all, and to Mallory, my dd turned 4 this February. I had read so many supportive books (The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding, The Continuum Concept, the Dr. Mom books, Dr. Sears). I learned that, from an anthropological standpoint, looking at the gestation period of humans, life expectancy, when teething begins, that kind of thing, if left to their own rhythm children would wean anywhere from 2 1/2 to 7 years. I tried to release my expectations, and here we are, still going very strong. It does get tiresome, but I try to remember how fast her life has gone by already, and try to change my thought when I get cranky. I trust that it will all be so worth it to her, and to our relationship.

Peace.


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## yogamama (Nov 19, 2001)

My nursling (ds) is 3 1/2 years old (42 months, if I just calculated that in my head correctly) and I am 32 weeks pregnant with our second child. He is only nursing about twice a day and I haven't had too much irritation with nursing during pregnancy, but I did think that he was going to self wean by this point in my pregnancy.

When we talk about weaning (he doesn't actually know that word), he looks at me like I am crazy and has informed me that he WILL still want to nurse, even when he is a bigger boy.

Now I'm concerned that he will be super-demanding of my attention when the new baby arrives. Lately he gets excited when my husband goes to work so that "it's just you and me mommy", he touches my face and asks me to stay "forever" in his bed when I am the one to lay down with him (I tell him that I will stay until he falls asleep and he can come to our bed if he wakes up in the middle of the night) and recently he has been yelling at me to play with him, NOW.

I (and my husband) give him ALOT of attention and I have been working on setting loving and realistic limits about what I can give. I hope that the fact that he is still nursing will ease the transition of a new sibling. He seems excited and eager about the new baby and we talk about the fact that the baby will nurse all the time, won't be able to play for awhile, will need to be carried everywhere. Still, I wonder how the new baby will impact his desire to nurse and my feelings about it.

I did want to practice child-led weaning. During pregnancy my goal was to nurse my first born exclusively for 6 months, continue for a year and then as long as we both wanted... I did hope to allow my child to wean naturally, but I didn't want to set myself up for disappointment. I worked full time (and traveled with husband and baby in tow) until my son was 2 years old, so we did it with alot of pumping, logistics and support from my husband.

I have to admit that I have not allowed my son to completely guide his nursing. He would nurse day and night if I allowed it. At age 2 we went back and forth with night weaning and then in the past year I pretty much only allow morning and bedtime nursing. Lately I offer a snuggle and make believe bedtime story in bed as an alternative to nursing before bed (sometimes he chooses the story and sometimes to nurse). I allow him to nurse if he is really seems to need it anytime, as long as we are in a private setting.

I'm not worried about having my child taken away due to extended nursing. I know the details of the IL mom this happened to (hi respondant mom, if you are reading this) and I think that the judge and others in the case really picked on her for so many outrageous reasons - single parent, socio-economic status, housekeeping... ridiculous stuff. I am the most mainstream looking mamma with a big house, education, money in the bank, strong marriage, etc... And I think that if DCFS ever came knocking on my door I would respond to them with kindness, education and (truthfully) compliance.

I think it is our responsiblity to make extended nursing known in the world as a thing that is not some fringe thing, but something wholesome and healthy. I don't let my son nurse in public (I'm just not comfortable with that, for several reasons), but our family, friends, healthcare providers, etc. generally all know that he still nurses and that we co-sleep, etc. At the same time, if I ever felt that my son's custody was threatened by our nursing relationship, I would actively wean him. Then I would fight like hell to continue to education people about why that why natural weaning is best. Complicated issues...

Thanks for the opportunity to share all this.
Blessings, all.
Kathleen


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## mom2tig99Nroo03 (Apr 24, 2003)

my ds nursed regularly till he was 30 months old, weaned while i was pg, although he asked/ i offered a few times while pg, and he has nursed a handful of times since dd's arrival, but i dont count myself a "tandem nursin mama", since there is no regularity....he does still get ebm in a cup once a day though


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## Bitsmama (Dec 6, 2002)

It is so wonderful to read this thread and find other Mamas who are not only nursing older children, but still nursing them more than once a day.

DD just turned 5 and shows no sign of stopping and DS is 7 months. I nursed DD all through my pregnancy, but because of the pain on my part and I suspect the little to no milk on her part, we were down to once or twice a day when DS was born. We have a great picture of the two of them tandem nursing on the living room floor 20 minutes after DS was born. My milk came in immediately and DD was in heaven. In fact she once told me that one of the best things about having a new baby was all the milk my breasts made. She even out nursed my new born on more than one occasion!









I find tandem nursing to be incredibly difficult, but I can't figure out exactly why. I can nurse either one alone, but the two together often makes me want to run screaming from the room. My theory is it has to do with the very different sucking on each breast. Does anyone else experience this? Unfortunately now when either one sees the other nursing....

I started out with a goal to make it for a year with DD. We hit a year, and she was barely showing an interest in solids. So we just kept going and eventually I decided I wanted to try child led weaning. There are definately days when I wish she would wean NOW, but for the most part I love having this relationship. I am some what awed to think that I may end up nursing for a period of 8-10 years straight. What a long cry from my original goal of making it to a year!


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## Mallory (Jan 2, 2002)

Bitsmama I hated nursing both of them together for a long time too. I had to be really desprate to nurse them together, even in the middle of the night I would find ways around it.

I am not sure why it changed, but probably when they were both old enough to ask the other to come nurse too, maybe around a year. And now they nurse together several times a day, but maybe you are right about the feelings, because how much different is it when you are nursing a 2 and 3 year old.

I know my toddler out nursed the new baby. He quit eating solids for months (I alway say they started solids together), but he was not to old when #2 was born (only 19 mo). And with me making soo much milk, the toddler could handle nursing until it was empty and even getting some comfort nursing, but my newborn was choking and gagging if he tried to comfort nurse, I don't think he nursed longer then about 5 minutes in the first few months (and from a kid who weighed 11 lbs 13 oz at his 2 week check up- he had gained over a lb a week) He even was the first to nurse after the baby was born







: He was trying to be very patient, but after me sitting there trying to get his brother latched on for an hour or so, he just had to try!


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## marchmom19 (Jan 21, 2002)

i am nursing my 3 year old (march 00) and cant believe I am nursing past 2 years. I had thought for sure would be finish by then. I guess I didnt know so much how much a toddler would nurse...and reading all yourp osts cant believe so many go up to 4-5 years.

that is probably be where we will be if I continue to do child led...but at the moment I am really dreading nursing my dd. she is too demanding and wants to nurse in the day...I told her only at nap time and bed time...and she nurses a lot in the night.

I have tried to tell her to wait till the sun comes up, count to 10 and so forth. the only thing seems to work is the counting to 10 and then we snuggle.

I really need help as I am really detesting nursing her. I am also nursing a 3 mos old too.

I hate what it is doing to our relationship and I am really grabby and have no patient when I nurse her. Why does she want to nurse so much? We do lots of things together, crafts, paint, so forth, even attend a few playgroups a week, go for nature walks and play outdoor.

told my sis the other day, I think what I am really lacking is the support of other long term nurser. We have no lll at the moment but am working together with the leader to get one going. But not sure how many will be long term nurser in the group once we start.

I am grateful to see this post and see so many long term nursers. how do you all cope with the down days??

stephanie, tandem nurser to 3 mos and 3 years old


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## LittlebitsMommy (Feb 24, 2003)

Marchmom19 My DS was born March 2000 too.HE still nurses alot at least 8 times a day and usually a couple of times at night.It usually doesn't bother me that he nurses so much,but here lately he has been getting pretty demanding.But I stay home with him all day while the older 2 are at school.So we just have eachother.I know it must be so much harder to have 2 that are nursing.I am sorry I don't have any advice to give you.I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone having a 3 year old that still loves to nurse.


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Hello Mamas,
I just wanted to jump into this wonderful thread. Right now I'm nursing Maddy, who just turned four last month and Sam who is 5 months today







the time goes by sooo fast. I weaned Alex(gentle, easy weaning) when he turned four because I became pregnant(I lost that baby), and I was crushed. I had planned on child led weaning, but I was not willing to nurse three kiddos at that point.

So now Maddy is nursing about 1 once a day, though she usually asks a LOT more than that(so I guess it's not completely child led). I'm getting a lot of flack from my mom and husband, about how it's not fair, and how does it make Alex feel. But my feeling is we know better, we do better. What if I had FF my first child, and then wanted to BF the rest of my kids, am I not supposed to because it's not fair? I don't think so!!
Sorry bout the rant!







:

I love being able to come here, and nursing a four year old is the norm!!


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## teachermom (Nov 21, 2001)

I am currently nursing my 8 month old and my almost 3 1/2 yr old. My dd weaned during my last pregnancy, two months before she turned five and two months before the baby came. I have tandum nursed thru two pregnancies. I did lead dd to wean. nursing two while preggers was just annoying.


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## mamabunny (May 7, 2003)

Wow! I am thrilled to see so many moms that are ebf! Way to go to all of you. I especially enjoyed reading that there are other moms out there who nursed 5 yrs & older kids!

My DD is 4 1/2 & my DS 2 1/2. They have both weaned over the last couple of weeks, as I am expecting #3. I thought I would just keep going through this pregnancy, like last time, but had a decent amount of discomfort. My DD talks about nursing again when the baby comes (5 mo away). I think my DS still wants to nurse-he asks if my nipples still hurt. He is so sweet and loving-he doesn't want to hurt me, and that is stronger than his wanting to nurse. It breaks my heart.

I wonder if after 5 months either of them will be interested. I know my DD will remember how. Has anyone here had experience w/ kids nursing again after such a long time not? And any experience w/ tandem nursing two older kids & new born! My kids had just been nursing at bed time, or when they got hurt and needed extra comfort. I can't imagine they would nurse alot w/ the new baby, although my DD did ask to nurse alot more after DS was born.

Keep up the liquid love ladies


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## joesmom (Nov 19, 2001)

anyway... i nursed joe until he was almost four- he weaned about a week before his bd. he slowed down & only nursed to sleep after he turned 3. so many times i gritted my teeth & wished he would finish. but ultimately i let him decide. i was starting to wonder if i would be nursing a 16 yo to sleep!! but now we lie down & i can read or watch tv while he falls asleep & he sleeps SO GOOD! i am so proud of both of us for the breastfeeding experience we shared!

good for all you moms who continue nursing your older kids!!!!


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## Chi-Chi Mama (Mar 13, 2002)

Ana is just over 18mnths, so I'm not in the "EB older children" category, but I wanted to give you all










































and






























thank you for sharing your stories, you are an inspiration!


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## ashleighsmom (May 3, 2003)

Please tell me, what is EBF? I am new here!!

Ashleighsmom


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## ashleighsmom (May 3, 2003)

Let me clarify...how long would you be nursing to be considered extended?

Ashleighsmom


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Extended breastfeeding is a subjective term, it depends on each individual's (and their society's) opinion IMO. For some EBF is past 6 months, for others it is into toddlerhood (past 1 year), and for others it is beyond toddlerhood. I intended for this to be a support thread for those nursing children past toddlerhood (meaning 4+yrs I guess) but like I said before Everyone is welcome here (to share and learn). I don't want to be exclusive or snobby








. The only people who are NOT welcome here are critics of EBF past a certain age.

I really like what someone here at Mothering once said (I'm sorry I can't remember who it was, but I saved the quote)...

Quote:

"The phrase 'extended nursing' should be stricken from the language, so that there is simply...nursing.
'Extended' implies a 'stretching out' of something--I haven't stretched out my children's nursing time, I've just met their needs."


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean, you really ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was







as I read every single one of your posts!!!!! I just feel soooo validated!!!!!KWIM?























I could have weaned dd when I had my 7 hr long surgery for my endo...she was 31/2 yrs then...BUT I DIDN'T!!! She stopped nursing for 3 weeks due to radioactive drugs I was given,and that I was just too sick to even sit up,let alone nurse!







But after 3 weeks of no nursing, we continued and then I conceived ds....I nursed her till I was 3 mos pg..then due to nip pain and the fact that I was still recovering frfom major surgery, and was pg....I felt my body really needed to have a break...so I weaned her at 50.2 mos old!!!!!

Truthfully, I would have liked to start nursing her again after ds was born, but I WAS a little freaked out about someone thinking it was wrong...I'm sure if I would have been on MDC, I would have had the support and confidence to just do it...but I wasn't and I didn't. *sigh* I was suffering from panic attacks too badly and PTSS....and PPD...so I just left well enough alone and have told myself that I did great...nursing over 4 yrs is a long time!!

I am going to try to let ds wean himself....I can't have more kids....and I want NO REGRETS! I feel stronger emotionally these days, so I think I should be able to. I just hope myhealth stays good.....

I love this thread!!!

mamapoppins









PS.....Don't you think LLL should have a preschoolers/kindergarden meeting?







I DO!!!!!


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## angelfromalasaka (May 19, 2002)

i have a 4yo who self weand at 15 months and i was 6 months preg with my now 2.5 yo. she has nursed since then, when she has been sick or had a bad day. my 2.5 is at 5 times a day now and i just had him stop the before breakfast one and he was fine with it. if he had fussed alot i wouldnt have pushed it but he isnt the best eater so i wanted him to eat abit better. as soon as he is done with breakfast he runs over to nurse.
Im think between now and his 3rd bday and we still nip.
angel
mom to grace 5/12/99 and drew 11/24/00


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

my bro-in-law is being a poopy and won't get her internet service....so I thought I'd add in that she nursed her ds#1 till he was 9mos...ds#2 till he was 3.6yrs....dd is still nursing and she will be 5 yrs in July....in fact, she nurses several times aday on some days!!!!!!































mamapoppins


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## chunkobaby (Dec 5, 2001)

I encouraged less nursing with my little guy when he was about two cause I was ttc (sensitive hormones wouldn't premit while nursing full bore) a year and a half later I'm finally preg. after pretty much stopping the nursing (I kept cutting back a little but and still getting short luteal phase) He has reluctantly stopped nursing asks a couple of times a day (sometimes serious sometimes joking) I said to myself, as soon as I conceive I'll let him have some "nana" . But now that I'm preg. (6 weeks) it's hard. my nipples are sore, I have extreme morning sickness (nasueous 24/7) and irritable. I have this romantic idea that it would be great for his adjustiment to the baby (he's so excited aboiut the new baby) if we continued to have some nursing through the preg. and possible some tandem. Any advice or do I just have to grin and bear it if I decide to do it?


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## mamabunny (May 7, 2003)

chunkobaby,

these are some of the tips I received last pregnancy from dr. newman to help w/ nipple soreness...

since you are nursing infrequently & w/ pregnancy hormones, your milk supply is typically not plentiful & will change to colostrum-part of the soreness is due to this-to help try massage or warm compresses before nursing to help w/letdown

i found that one side was more sore than the other, so I tried to nurse more on the least sore side

i went back to using lansinoh to help w/ nipple soreness

the first 30 seconds seemed to be the most uncomfortable, so i did try to just "grin & bear it" at the beginning.

my dd was just nursing at bedtime, so i would also have a sippy cup handy and would offer that and snuggling and limit nursing time

since she was very verbal I would ask her to "use a big mouth" and have her open really wide before latching on

i know dr newman has more tips on his website & you can email him directly for more specific help.
http://www.bflrc.com/newman/articles.htm

i hope this is helpful. one other thing-if your child is still interested in nursing when the baby comes, don't be surprised if he wants to nurse more frequently when all your milk comes in. my dd was thrilled. it brought my milk in quickly, i had alot, and my ds barely lost any weight, and regained quickly.

best of luck


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## spryte (Jan 27, 2002)

Hello All-
My name is Kelley. I am tandem nursing my almost 4 year old and 10 mo old. I think the eldest is starting to wean but each time I think so she nurses a couple of times in a day a few days later.

It has been a real struggle dealing with family (not my wonderful dh but others) who seem so down on my dd nursing. I am running out of arguments and defenses when I encounter comments and yet when dd wants to nurse I really don't want to refuse- who knows if it will be the last time she ever does...

SO great to see so many other mamas here.


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## mamabunny (May 7, 2003)

Kelley,
Is it possible to just keep it in the immediate family and not mention around unsupportive family members? Unless your dd is asking to nurse when they are around...maybe you could suggest to her that it is something you just do when only immediate family is around. i found w/ my dd that as she got older she only really nursed in AM & bedtime, so it was easy to keep it private. also at that age they are usually too busy during the daytime w/ other activities. if you are staying over at someone else's home, you may still be able to keep it private if you are only nursing at bedtime.
Sorry to hear that your extended family is not more supportive. Atleast you have lots of support and other moms ebf here! Good luck!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Kelley,

I agree with mamabunny. It's a shame that we sometimes have to hide something so wonderful that everyone should be supporting. But I see it more as protecting myself and my child from unnecessary negativity. It really is nobody else's business but you and your child's, you shouldn't feel like you have to give excuses. If they are willing to learn (and not criticize) then teach away! There is some great info here at Mothering and there are also many other sources (books and online sources) in support of extended nursing, let us know if you need some of the links and book titles.


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## spryte (Jan 27, 2002)

Thanks for the help, mamabunny and mothersunshine~









Maybe instead of fearing this will be the last time we nurse so I should say Yes!! I should tell her that we can when we get home and just trust that with her steel trap mind we will definitely nurse when we get home.









Please do let me know what books there are- all I have is Mothering your Nursing Toddler.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I recommend "How Weaning Happens" by Diane Bengson (a LLL book) and "Breastfeeding: Biocultural Perspectives" by Katherine Dettwyler, PhD. I don't have the book by Dettwyler (yet) but I have read some of the excerpts online, which you can find at http://www.prairienet.org/laleche/detwean.html


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

My son is almost 26 mos. old and still an avid nurser. He is currently teething his last set of molars and nursing all of the time as a result! My husband is more concerned about the norm and has mentioned weaning. He slipped again this weekend after agreeing not to say anything, because my nursing relationship is EXTREMELY important to me.

I had a miscarriage with an unplanned pregnancy and then a c-section wioth my son, so I think I felt like the one thing my womanly body could do well was nurse, and I never ever gave him a bottle, etc., as a result.

He has been so healthy -- sick for less than 5 days, total, in his life. He can collect himself easily and well when nursing (wards off tantrums, etc.). He goes to sleep (bed and naptime) so easily. So many benefits! Plus, I'm thin!

When I was a few months along, a friend gave me So That's What They're For?! as a birthday gift. At 5 mos., I decided to go ahead and read it. I ended up deciding to go ahead and read the last chapter on toddler nursing. When she said that most kids wean between ages 1 and 3, I thought, why not?

And now I'm committed to child-led weaning. My biggest hurdle will be my husband, who now has stretched to saying, "If he's six years old, I'll have a problem with it." Hopefully that'll keep on stretching as it needs to for my son.

Thanks for the support -- I'm having friends wean left and right, so I feel a little more alone!


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## Patchfire (Dec 11, 2001)

*waves* Can I join the party? *g*

I'm still nursing my 'big girl' - her words - who will be three in August, several times a day. No one knows how often she nurses but me, and while some people are aware that I still nurse, I'm starting to get more disgust, reproach, the whole shebang. So, I was wondering if/when any of you 'went underground' with your nursing? I don't intend to force her to wean, but I really don't want to get into discussions about it with anyone else. (Yes, I'm a coward!)


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

That's a good question. I never felt the need to *go underground* while nursing dd....those who knew I nursed her at age 4 weren't about to argue with me. Had I nursed her for longer, I suppose I might have....

With ds, I suppose that I have more confidence now, but if we get to age 4, I'll probably be moerediscreet and protective where nursing is concerned....but family and friends will know(or they're not family and friends!) and so will ds's doc.

mp


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## marymom (Nov 24, 2001)

hi yall, My Max is about 4 and a half, nurses several times during the day and usually only once at night, I have nursed all 6 of my kids, My Saraih, the 9 year old nursed regularly untill somewhere around 5 and then had her last drink when Max was born (it was a huge help when my milk came in!) at about 5 and a half,
I did not nurse the rest of my children nearly as long due to personal substance use/abuse issues


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## tnrsmom (Apr 8, 2002)

Hi Mary, it's good to see you.


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## AnneO (May 28, 2003)

New to this site and just found this thread. I am still nursing my 22 month old ds and am less than 4 weeks away from delivering our 2nd dc.

I too knew I wanted to breastfeed (for at least a year), but never knew I'd come this far. I feel great about it. So many people (and books) said he'd probably wean during the pregnancy - but not Jacob. It has been rough at times with sore, tender breasts, but at this point I'm preparing myself for tandem nursing.

At 22 months old, I'm not sure how much he understands - I've asked him if he will share his "milk" with the new baby and usually he says no - sometimes yes - we'll see!

Glad to know there is so much support here.


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

I was always pretty open about nursing. Pretty much stopped nursing in public when me dd was 21/2 years old. but it just depends on who I was talking to at the time. Some people are outright ignorant about nursing an older child and if I didn't want a confrentation it wouldn't be mentioned.

But if I was in a mood to debate, no problem I can do that too


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

I'd love to hear from people on here what their replies are when they get funny looks, unsupportive comments, etc. It always helps me to think those things through before a conflict arises. So far, I haven't had much problem. But my son does nurse a lot, including in public places (often leaving the breast quickly and therefore exposed while I fumble belatedly ... in general, I try to make nursing him as socially acceptable as possible so that people see me and think, "She's not a freak, and that doesn't look so freakish ... I could do that!"), and I'm anticipating more problems. We live in Portland, too, which is pretty liberal, but we'll be heading to NC and FL this summer, where I would anticipate less social acceptance of the practice (or comments due to less visibility of the practice?).


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## kangamom (May 24, 2003)

I don't know if I really qualify here since I'm no longer nursing an older child. But I did nurse my older dd until March 1 of this year, which was 10 days shy of her 3rd birthday. It broke my heart and I waffled on it for over a year, but finally I just had to do it. I nursed her all through my pg with dd #2 and tandem nursed for 8 1/2 months. I really cherished the nursing relationship Ayla and I had, and I just didn't want to give it up. I wasn't sure if I would enjoy tandem nursing. It was kind of a mixed bag. I loved it at first when dd #2 was a newborn. I loved holding them in my lap and seeing them so happy. I loved it when Ayla would reach out and hold her tiny sister's hand. The best part to me was when I nursed them together and they cuddled up together, their bodies formed the shape of a heart in my lap. It was just so beautiful. (Still makes me teary, lol) But then as the baby got older, Ayla would get less and less flexible to the limits I put on her and I found myself engaged in daily mu-mu battles. She wanted to nurse all the time, and I found myself having to give the baby bottles of formula in the evenings because I was just tapped out and touched out. I tried every creative limitation I could think of. But it finally dawned on me that this battle was no longer over her desire to nurse, but it seemed to be more of a power struggle. She knew I was trying to limit her so she kept pushing me to win me over. The final straw was when I wrestled her for 45 minutes of tears and hysterics in front of my out-of-town visiting inlaws. I had a hard time at first because she would throw such tantrums to nurse. But a friend gave me the idea to laugh every time she asked as if it were the funniest joke I'd ever heard. She's going through this stage where she is experimenting with what is funny so it actually worked. I still have lots of guilt over it. If I hadn't had dd #2 she would still be nursing. I was fully prepared to nurse her until she was 4 or 5. In fact she still asks me at least 2-3 times a week, if not every day. I'd love to nurse her again, but my sanity will not endure through the power struggles. I just don't think I'm cut out for tandem nursing. DD #2 is almost a year old and is much more easy going about it. I have been giving her bottles of water when she goes to bed and it is a special treat for her, she loves it. I think I may be pg again and maybe if I am this time we can work out the tandem thing. I hated weaning my child, and if I can help it I won't be doing it again.


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## marymom (Nov 24, 2001)

<waving hand>
I live in Florida,
I prefer to not breastfeed in public -I quit in most places at about 2 1/2, maybe after 2, at 3, in a few places that we frequent, I am thinking the only place I remember is Golden Corral,. haha, but I have not nursed in about a year in public, Max is 4 and a half, I stopped nursing in public at about 2, that never stopped the kids from wanting it tho, and I feel untrue to my beliefs that I chose to nurse in bathroom stalls and the car and such rather than just whereever...but to be honest I am concerned about my reputation, I am already considered a bit 'out there' and I feel I need resapectful interaction within the community to be functional as mom to my other children, and all my other hats.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I just wanted to bump this thread up so we can invite anyone new (or anyone who missed it before) to join in.

I think at this stage of nursing there is less to talk about (for us anyway, dd is 6), but it is still encouraging to know that we aren't the only ones going the natural way. So it feels good to just say "I'm here" every now and then.

Aloha,
Michelle


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## Mama2ABCD (Jun 14, 2003)

hi, i am nursing two boys. they are 38 mos and 22 mos. they nurse on demand. i have no limitations except out in public (i can't seem to nurse one without nursing the other). in public, if needed, i will nurse one or the other. with the older, he's good about waiting til we "get home".

i plan to let my boys wean when they are ready. seems to be going well and my dh is very supportive. i do have moments when i wish they were weaned, but that's just a moment and i understand that it's ok to have those.

i'm just glad i've gotten this far nursing my children. i did not really know what to expect when i started (who does?), but i'm grateful that i have the patience and determination to keep nursing because that seems to be the key to a successful nursing relationship.

it sure is wonderful to see all the mothers out there that are nursing their babies! especially tandem nursers!!!!!


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## shinybutton (May 30, 2003)

I was feeling like a real rebel nursing past a year around here. We've made it to 3.5yrs and now I'm pregnant with #2 and my nips are SORE! I'm really grateful for this thread but I was really hoping to hear more solution about the soreness thing because I'm not into pain, but I don't want to wean before ds is ready. I didn't start out to EN but after reading a bunch and discovering support boards, I figured I'd let him self wean. Now I'm not so sure anymore. I know pregnancy means pain,after all it's gonna hurt to get the baby out of me eventually,meanwhile the nausea, the acid indigestion,the tiredness,the big fat enormity of it all, but daily doses of pain when nursing added to all that, just doesn't seem fair to ME! Aren't there any crunchy cures for this? I'm a wimp,asked for an epidural,loooooow pain tolerance. Help!


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## kangamom (May 24, 2003)

You could try some Oragel or something on your nipples. It will make ds's mouth numb too though. Or maybe you could try to limit nursing to certain times and/or places. When I was pg my dd#1 was only 19 months so I taught her how to count. I only let her nurse until I counted to 20. That way I knew how long I'd have to endure and it made it more managable for me.


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## BonaDea (Jun 20, 2003)

We are not currently nursing but I'm chiming in anyhow.

DS self weaned at 4.5 years and his sister, then 2.5 years, opted to self wean a month later. Ohhhh, how I wish she hadn't choose that route. I really think that 2's and 3's are much easier if you have the option to offer a breast.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

My son is 27 mos. old, and I SO agree that life is much easier with him nursing. If I put off his request for too long, an hour-long tantrum ensues ... speakin gof which, he's asking ...


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## Peace4all (Jan 16, 2002)

Mother_sunshine,
I first responded to this thread when ds was 4. Well, he just turned 5 last month. Nursing is still so important to him, and I can not imagine weaning him before he is ready. I know I am doing what is best for him, and I know it is natural and right.
However, I find that as he gets older, I keep this part of our lives, more and more private. Knowing how ignorant our society is on this subject, I am even alittle fearful to be open with others about this. I am fearful of ignorant but "well-meaning" people reporting us to the authorities. I hate that.
That said, I also know we need to be out there informing the public if even by just our presence. I feel it would be best for our children if our society were more accepting of extended nursing and nursing in general.
There is strength in numbers and I do wish I knew more mothers of older children who were, or are still nursing. So thank-you for this thread.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Teresa, I am so glad you posted. I completely feel the same way. I want so badly to be able to be open and free with our extended nursing but I too am fearful of our society. I see my silence as protecting ourselves from wrongful and hurtful misjudgements more so than embarrassment or fear of being seen as weird. I think many people see us as sort-of "weird" anyway! If I felt that society would be accepting then I wouldn't be afraid, but like you said there are so many ignorant people....but at the same time it is best to meet ignorance with education....but at whose risk? My daughter is now 6 1/2, most people (even here at MDC) would be shocked to hear that there is a child out there who still needs to nurse at 6. We never planned it this way, I have just trusted her needs and know she'll wean when she's ready (whatever age that will be). Age is irrelevant. It's so frustrating sometimes that something so healthy and humanly natural is so gravely misunderstood. But with new recommendations to nurse longer (even if the recommendation is just 2yrs, it's still better than the old 6 months), and with more publicity on EN (even if some of it is sensationalized), I think people in general are at least becoming more aware of EN. It's a start. Anyway, I'm glad you're here! Strength in numbers, right?










Michelle

P.S.
I remember when dd turned 5, suddenly I started getting flamed (on another parenting website). 5 sounds so much older than 4 I guess







: . But people eventually gave up as she turned 6.


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

Can't remember if I mentioned it here or not, but my dd weaned on June 25th last year at 5.9 years. She asked to nurse about 2 months ago and did so for about 2 seconds, she was 6.10 years at that point.

She seemed a little sad about weaning. I told her she weaned almost a year ago and she said she only weaned because everyone was bothering her about it.

How sad. I told her she could nurse again if she wanted. She seemed content in knowing that she could if she wanted. She didn't quite remember how and left it at that


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Hi Cindy, Did you know before dd weaned that she was being hassled? How sad, that must have been frustrating for her. But that's wonderful that you were open about her nursing again if she wanted. I'm sure that brought her great comfort.










Michelle


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

A few family members that we see only on occassion would say things and I would talk to her afterwards about it. My mom turned out to be my biggest advocate and always said it was fine as long as we both were fine with it, however, every once in awhile she would say to my dd "your getting a little old for that now aren't you"

But the big thing she told me was that 2 of her friends who knew and were never breastfed themselves would tease her and tell her it was only for babies. She had asked me about that when she was about 3 or 3 1/2 and I told her its the lucky babies who go on to nurse for many years and she was fine with that.

but I guess when your turning 5 and going to kindergarten peer pressure sinks in. I still feel she was ready to wean and will not be traumitized by this. I think it was just the fact that this was something she had done her whole life and it was sad to leave behind.

I think we all have these feeling our whole lives about things. I remember looking forward to graduating from H.S. and then feeling sad about leaving that part of my life. KWIM?


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

My Mom contradicts herself too. Sometimes she'll bring up a quote from her Bible that supports EN, or send me an article in favor of EN. But then when she's alone with dd she'll make strange comments. But then if I ask her about it she completely denies it. She didn't nurse me so I don't think she really understands (especially now at 6 yrs, lol). But I think she's trying. And she probably is my biggest advocate too (at least w/in the family).

Dd hasn't brought up nursing to any of her friends at school (she's going into 1st grade) so she isn't pressured by them luckily. But having the latest fashion (high shoes and roxy) is another thing....sigh. It's strange how she seems so eager to grow up in so many ways except for this one thing. I tried giving her a nudge around her birthday (when I was feeling pressured) but she adamantly fought me on it and it was clearly hurting our relationship so I decided it was best to ease up and let her lead the way. One day she'll be ready to leave it behind too.


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## ~DreamingOfTheSea~ (Jan 19, 2002)

Well Im nursing my 2 yr. old and there isnt any end in sight. Unfortunately relatives(not my parents)have been making rude comments. I told them she'll wean when shes ready and we won't be visiting until they can keep there comments to themselves or get educated about breastfeeding-the last visit they said nothing







) I honestly didn't expect to have so much opposition to breastfeeding-especially the longer I nursed. Anyway Im comfortable with it and so is my daughter and thats all that matters.


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## biberin (Jun 25, 2003)

You ladies have me holding my breath







My son just turned three, and although we live in an area where artificial feeding is the norm, and although I still NIP, not a single person has ever made a critical comment to me. I'll have to memorize some good comebacks for when that day arrives.

Biberin


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

biberin:

I don't know where you live in the midwest, but I know that in Minnesota my friends have gotten comments. You'd think that with the level of education in the midwest, this wouldn't be an issue, but on the other hand, my experience in MN and WI has been that it is quite normative. Anyway, one friend in MN gets the critical question even when she's pregnant! When she's asked why in the world she would go the breastfeeding route, she has come up with this simple reply: "It's an IQ point." Simple as that. Who can argue with giving your child the gift of extra intelligence? It's worked for her.


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## biberin (Jun 25, 2003)

I'm in Missouri. Most of the people I know nurse, but they all stop cold turkyl at 12mo, and they never nurse on cue past a few weeks. I'll keep the IQ comment in mind, since dh is a professor!

Biberin


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## CanOBeans (Apr 7, 2002)

My DD just turned 3 the first of July and there's no end in sight to her nursing, hooray! I had to wean my DS at 22 months and I've always wished I could have nursed him longer. He jokingly asked to nurse this morning (just turned 6) and then laughed hysterically when I offered him the boob!







Honestly, the idea seemed a little weird to me, although I think if he were still nursing it wouldn't be, you know?

Anyway, I have no idea how long DD will nurse, but her best friend who is the same age nurses too so they kind of reinforce each other.







I want her to keep going so I still have an excuse to go to LLL meetings! :LOL


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## biberin (Jun 25, 2003)

*waves to Jill from SAH-AP land*









Do parisians ever say anything about nursing toddlers?


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

I don't know if we qualify, but since we are the only ones left nursing at 2.5 IRL, I'll chime in here for the support. I haven't had a chance to read all the reponses yet~~but I will








Just tonight ds was nursing after stubbing his toe, he nursed one side and then went to play. I went back into the kitchen to finish dinner and he follwed a few seconds later indignantly saying "Mama! Sage didn't nurse other side yet!":LOL
It was funny tonight, but I think it will get old pretty fast. Now that he's really talking it somehow feels more demanding.







:

I have no plans to try to lead his weaning, and it will be interesting to see how long he nurses.


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## CanOBeans (Apr 7, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by biberin_
**waves to Jill from SAH-AP land*









Do parisians ever say anything about nursing toddlers?*










You mean there's someone who remembers me from SAH-AP? It's been a while since I've hung out there! :LOL But I can't guess from your user name who you are...PM me if you want to keep your secret identity secret!









I've never gotten so much as a look, as far as I know, when I NIP here. I do have a friend who just thinks it's amazing that I still have milk and she always wants her daughter who is 5 now to watch me nurse DD. My friend didn't nurse (wanted to, sabotaged by formula wielding nurses in the hospital) but has no hangups about it -- not defensive or weird at all.

I attend an English-language toddler LLL group here so I do know a fair number of moms nursing toddlers and up.


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## mamabunny (May 7, 2003)

Shiny button,
These are the things that helped me continue nursing while pregnant...
lansinoh cream to help w/ sore nipples
massage to help w/ let down
grin and bear it when my dd first latched on
keep a sippy cup handy, limit amount of nursing time, then cuddle while she drank from sippy

While I was pregnant w/ #2 my dd was only nursing at bedtime, so the above worked pretty well. After my ds was born she loved all the milk and nursed more frequently. They have a very special bond, alot of which I attribute to both nursing, so there wasn't as much jealousy. Tandem nursing can be challenging, but rewarding too.

I am now pregnant w/ #3 and both my dd (4 yrs 7 mo) & my ds (2 yrs 7 mo) self weaned because of my discomfort. They are such wonderful little people-so thoughtful and considerate. My ds didn't want to hurt his mama. He would always ask "do your nipples still hurt?". They were fairly content to just snuggle to sleep. Although, my ds definitely takes longer to fall asleep since weaning. They will be 5 & 3 when the baby is born. My dd still tells me that she misses mama milk and wants to nurse when the baby comes. I do miss nursing, my ds especially, as he is so young in comparison to dd, and I'm hoping that he will be interested in nursing again after the baby is born. He does everything his big sister does, so if she nurses I'm hoping he will too. My LLL leader says sometimes they forget how to after so long. I do hope that is not the case. My dd & ds were only nursing at bedtime, or if my ds got hurt, so it wouldn't be much if they started up again.

*Has anyone out there had a child start nursing regularly again after stopping for several months?????*

*Also any Moms with experience nursing three???*


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## shinybutton (May 30, 2003)

Thanks for the tips! Actually,it's gotten better. I still have to turn my head and make a face when he first latches on but after that the pain goes away. My doctor warned me my hormones might dry my milk up in the 7th month of pregnancy so I'm preparing ds now that the "sleepy juice" might go away for a little while but it will be back after the baby comes out. He gets sad and then excited when I tell him this. I'm glad it's better because I sure wouldn't want to wean him now. He's 3.5 and doing so many big boy things, like potty training, being away from me for longer stretches,going to the dentist for sealants, picking up his toys without complaint before bed, it's nice for both of us to have that breastfeeding touchstone when he just needs to curl up and be my baby for a little while again. I'm going on the asumption that we will tandem when the new baby gets here.


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## mamabunny (May 7, 2003)

shiny button-
sounds like you are doing great, and ds sounds like he is taking things in stride. Even though they are mature in so many ways, it's nice to cuddle and remember that they are still your babies. I tell my two little people that they will always be my babies! As your belly gets bigger, not only does the milk change to colostrum, but there is less room on your lap for snuggling. Maybe you can lie next to him and snuggle at that point.

I'm sure your ds will be a big helper w/ the new baby, and will be thrilled w/ all the milk. My ds barely lost any weight after delivery as my dd helped my milk come in quickly. Sometimes ds would gag a little and never seemed to need to nurse as long as dd had at his age.

Best of luck with the new baby! Enjoy every moment...even the challenging ones-the second one seems to make the time fly even faster!

*Still hoping someone out there has experience to share about re-starting regular nursing w/ an older child & nursing three!*


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## biberin (Jun 25, 2003)

I have a close friend who negotiated weaning with her daughter at age 2y5m due to first trimester cramping with twins. Her daughter understood that the milk would return, and she nursed for another year, at least.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

I heard from a LLL acquaintance that her child weaned during pregnancy, then started nursing again (infrequently, I think) a few MONTHS after baby was born. Go figure!

Biberin - we're pushing 4 and still nursing


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## mom2tig99Nroo03 (Apr 24, 2003)

ds is 3.5 and nurses occasionally still.


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## fishomama (Nov 27, 2002)

I'm 8 mos pg and have been strugging through tandem nursing. I'm so committed to it and really don't want her to wean before baby. But...she keeps using her top teeth. We talked about it and she sticks her tongue out to prevent the bottom teeth from "chewing" - that helps. I'm trying to figure out whether it would bother me as much if I wasn't pg. I have no milk either. I don't want her to wean b/c she's tired of hearing me talk about it her teeth hurting. She seems discouraged. I keep telling her that I love nursing her, I just need her to be gentle. Anyone with this problem? Could she have forgotten how to nurse? She nurses 5 or so times/day, for very short periods. Thanks!


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## spryte (Jan 27, 2002)

fishomama- my dd nursed throughout my pregnancy and the pain didn't ever go away for me. Some days dd (4) had to latch on 3 times before it was comfortable enough for me to nurse for even a minute.

It was her top teeth that bothered me too- and most of the time she couldn't do anything about it. Different positions, lying on my side or having her stand up for example helped. I should say that as soon as ds was born, the top teeth did not bother me anymore- I am certain it was a pregnancy thing for me.

What I did, for her was to make nursing the last few months a game. We counted. (she loves counting) I let her pick a number and I counted to that as slow or as fast as my breasts could handle and at the end she latched off for a few minutes or sometimes the night. Even though we have been tandem nursing a year, last night she wanted me to count.

Best of luck.


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## fishomama (Nov 27, 2002)

Thanks, spryte, for your reply. That's encouraging. I told my husband that my fear was my telling her that her teeth hurt, only to discover just as you said...it wouldn't be a big deal after the baby was born. I'll try your approach, that is much more gentle than "blaming" her. She's trying so hard and I'm so impressed by her efforts. Thanks again, fishomama


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

fishomama,\

I've been struggling with this with my 28 month old. He gets very upset when I try to talk to him about it, though he is happy to switch sides if that helps (at first, even that was upsetting to him). I have little to offer, but here goes ...

I'm not pregnant, but sometimes my nipples are very sensitive during ovulation, and that definitely makes it worse. The other thing that I've noticed is that when I'm stressed-out, I seem to get slightly off-balance with my bacteria and a few acidophilus pills help -- it kind of feels like he's gnawing, and nursing just hurts a lot (usually on my right side more than my left, for some reason). I discovered it by 'accident' once when I wondered whether I might have thrush and then ended up with two other problems that can be caused by the imbalance and corrected with acidophilus. I don't know about use of acidophilus in pregnancy, but you could up your intake of yogurt, incase it helps.

It doesn't alleviate the problem of the chewing, but it seems to help with the sensitivity that seems to be brought on by the imbalance.

Good luck. I look forward to hearing what others offer up ...


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## goodpapa (May 14, 2003)

My wife nurses our 19 month old boy---32 pounds, 36" tall.

He's not fat, just very big and powerful-- you should see him push the bassinet filled with toys around the kitchen!!

He nurses like a fiend-- and he's not backing off at all, in fact he seems to be increasing in intensity-- along with all kinds of organic veggies, fruits and meats-- an entire chickenbreast in one meal!

The problem is that we want to have another child but not hamper his style-- so we just want to increase the nutrients that breastfeeding uses. We just want to make sure that the growing baby will get everything needed.

My idea is to juice organic fruits and vegetables. For instance, according to this website

http://www.juicingbook.com/vegetables/

turnips have a good deal of magnesium, which I know is important for calcium absorption, and which is depleted by excessive lactation.

Have any of you done this and/or would any of you be interested in compiling our research efforts to come up with the ideal juicing supplements? I don't want to use pills or powders, just the good natural stuff that nature provides.

Ray


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

JenniferJeffrey,

I think I would've told the electrician to get out of my house immediately. That is so creepy. I am so sorry that you aren't feeling supported in your community for doing something that is so important to you and your baby -- and to your community. Talk about the benefits to public health, not to mention fewer tantrums, etc. I think it's absolutely abominable -- short-sighted, narrow-minded, and the like, to criticize extended nursing. I'm glad that you're following your mamaheart and giving, giving, giving.

Take care of your self.


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## gingertre (May 15, 2003)

Just posting my support. As DD is only 20 months old, I don't quite fit into this category yet. We'll see if DD lets us walk down this path.

Right now she nurses twice a day (waking and bedtime) but those times are avid, long and lovely. I WAH full time, so our daytime nursing has never been frequent, and she doesn't even ask for it during the day on weekends, but I have a feeling she'll keep these last two sessions for a good long time.

Dh says, "She'll nurse until college." My response, "If I'm lucky...." LOL.


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## iris0110 (Aug 26, 2003)

I just stumbled onto this thread a little late. I guess I am ebfing. I never really thought about it, but now Ds is 25 months and still happily nursing. Although he really doesn't nurse very often, and I think he is on his way to weaning. He is down to about twice a day now. I'm 7 weeks pregnant with #2 and it is hard to nurse Ds as my nipples really hurt. I am hoping it will stop soon so I can get back into the swing of things. I never thought I would want to tandem nurse, but now I find that the idea really doesn't bother me much. I just hope that nursing this babe goes better from the start than it did with Ds. My nipples cracked and bled for the first 6 months.







I probably would have quit if I weren't so darn stubborn.







But it really wasn't Ds's fault. He had GER and was really sick those first 6 months. I am hoping that won't happen this time.

So thats my story.


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## LittlebitsMommy (Feb 24, 2003)

I am not sure if I have posted to this thread or not. But I am still nursing Littlebit. He will be 3.6 tomorrow. I don't see us stopping anytime soon. He still nurses alot during the day. Or should I say he snacks alot. He loves his Nynees.

He has been sick the last few days. When I was feeding him the other night. When he was done he told me That is so good Mommy Yum. I thought that was so sweet.

NOw that he has been sick he is waking at night again. I am sorry he is sick but I was missing his night nursing. I know he will not nurse forever. But I want to hold on to everyday that he does nurse. I cherish it as it is our last because I have no way of knowing when he will wean.

I am so glad to see there are so many others that have choosen to EN. I wish so much that I would have BF my 2 older kids. I think it is the most wonderful thing ever. All you wonderful mommys out there keep up the good work.


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## dandjsmama (Sep 13, 2003)

I am nursing my 3 yo. She and my 10yo are still in the "family bedroom" if not the fgamily bed. 10 yo nursed until her 5th b-day and quit on her own. 3 yo nurses all the time (probably 10x a day). I am concerned about going to the hospital to deliver and having to stay over night. How will 3yo sleep/not nurse for all that time. I have considered home birth but have wanted an epidural the last 2 times, so . . . Have any of you been through this? Many say jus to wean 3yo during this next 9 months but I don't think that's fair to her. She still is very reliant on it. Any ideas?
Wendy


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## geminimommy (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by dandjsmama_
*Have any of you been through this? Many say jus to wean 3yo during this next 9 months but I don't think that's fair to her. She still is very reliant on it. Any ideas?
Wendy*
Wendy, I think you may discover over the next few months that your 3yo may slow down considerably and it won't be a huge concern when it comes time to go to the hospital for delivery. Even if it doesn't, while the separation may be difficult on your 3yo, it will be quickly forgotten when you arrive home with the new baby and a refreshed milk supply.









Shayna
Momma to Hunter (4) and Hudson (2)


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## shinybutton (May 30, 2003)

Checking back in at 17 weeks preg. Things are going well. Ds, 3.5 is still nursing. It doesn't hurt as much now. I really do think it's the pregnancy hormones that make it hurt and not the top teeth per se,even if it feels like it. He's asking less and even wanting to sleep on his own more often. I'm proud of him and still happy to let him curl up to be my baby when he wants. The spud has a healthy heartbeat as of yesterday's check up and I'm starting to feel the tiny kicks.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I'm glad things are going better for you shinybutton!


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## shinybutton (May 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by JenniferJeffrey_
> One evening I had to have an electrician here and he was saying what a treat it was to see and how he couldn't wait to tell the guys at work and he was talking about getting glimpses of my flesh, not about EB, he gave me the creeps
> 
> 
> ...


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## lunarmama (Sep 9, 2003)

Hi Nursing Mamas,
This is my first post at this board. I am currently nursing a 4.4 yr, 2 yr old and my 8 weeks old baby. I very much believe in child-led weaning but sometimes feel like I'm losing my mind because my oldest nursling is a marathon nurser . I swear she'd write poetry about her "baboos" if she were old enough! She and my 2 yr old son sometimes have complete meltdowns if the other is nursing when they want to. It's not as intense as it was right after the baby was born and I hope that our nursing relationships continue but it is hard when family think your have lost your mind and when they continually tell my 4 yr that she is too old to still be nursing







but we have an ongoing conversation about our nursing relationship and we both feel good about it right now. Anyhoo this is a great thread. Peace to all of you.

Ann


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## carmen veranda (Jan 27, 2003)

Wow!!!

Throw your arms around your back and give yourself a huge hug!!! You are amazing.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Welcome to the community lunarmama.







It's good to have you with us.

Mother_Sunshine


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## sweetmama (Apr 15, 2002)

So glad to find this thread!

The support of peers can make all the difference. My dd just turned 4 and no-one I hang out with nurses this long. I have one friend who was still nursing her 3.5 year old and so we would always compare notes with each other, but she just weaned completely. I have to admit, I was on my way to doing the same, without any good reason other than pressure from others and the fact that I didn't personally know anyone else still nursing at this age. I had one very fortuitous, brief phone conversation with an aquaintance who nursed her daughter until 6-7 yo, and it really made me stop and reevaluate.

I love nursing! My daughter loves nursing! That's the bottom line. I did set boundaries and restrictions finally, but I'm easing up on some of them. We don't nurse in the day at all anymore, and we were at the point of only nursing at bedtime, if that, and nothing in the night or morning. Now I'm letting her occasionally nurse in the middle of the night or in the morning if she asks for it.

I was getting so much positive feedback from my genuinely supportive and accepting friends and family for the "advances" that I was making in my work of gradual weaning. I was proud of myself for being able to actually have some control over some aspect of my parenting life. But that's really a lot of what weaning was about, control. And that's not what I want to base this nursing relationship on. I completely support my friend who just weaned, because she was at a point of really hating breastfeeding and resenting and avoiding her daughter, but for me, it's not the same.

Just here to say thank goodness we are all here to support each other, because just one conversation with one mama was enough to really turn things around for us, and I'm so grateful!


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## Trisha (Aug 11, 2003)

Oh my goodness! I thougth I WAS already EB LOL!! Benjamin is 15 months and I plan to allow him to wean when he wants but I never would have imagined some children nursing at four and five and beyond! Dont get me wrong here... I LOVE the idea of nursing that long I just didnt know it was being done.

Funny thing is that people asked me how long I was going to nurse and I said at least a year... then it was probably 2 years like the WHO recommends.. then it was AT LEAST 2 years... now its, whenever he wants, probably a few more years. LOL I love the reactions I get. I have a very strong personality and enjoy a challange so when someone even tries to say something negative Im ready!! hehehe

Well Im very encouraged ladies, thank you for such wonderful support... and now off to more reading here


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## biberin (Jun 25, 2003)

I know I'm not the first to say this, but I think the whole at least 2yrs thing is funny, because once you've gotten to 2yrs, most kids aren't going to give up without a fight. Unfortunately, an acquaintance of mine who found herself nursing a 3yo has told me that the next kid will be weaned at 15mo at the latest, because she doesn't want it to get all drawn out again. The 3yo is very close to a pretty gentle weaning now, which i am happy to see.


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## sugarcube (Sep 22, 2003)

Hi Everyone!
So glad I found this thread!!!! Am EB only daughter who is 3.5 yrs. old. I love it for the most part except for her night waking/nursing! She has NEVER been a great sleeper and I feel like I will never get a good nights rest! Lately, she's taken to waking 3-4x/night to nurse! A few months ago she would go to bed around 8 pm, wake around 4 am to nurse, then wake at 8 am. This new routine is about to send me over the edge! I'm so sleep deprived on a daily basis that I can hardly stand it! All the women in my local LaLeche League have night weaned their children and urge me to do the same. I've tried negotiating/putting time limits on her night nursing and her response is always tears and continual tugging on my shirt. It breaks my heart when this happens ! I try to explain how I need sleep and "mama milk" needs sleep and how she needs sleep to be healthy and rested. She says she understands but then immediately reaches for my breast again! My only saving grace has been to stop looking at the future and to just concentrate on our needs on a daily basis. I've read that a child will stop nursing when that particular need is met. I hold on to this and the fact that I am providing her comfort and reassurance as she grows. I know it will change eventually, but there are days that I just really need some support from others who have/are going through something similar. So, if you are out there - please respond! Thanks for listening and for giving me strength through this mother-inspired and child-respected thread!









Warmly,
Dot, mother to the "sugarcube" - Simone (3.5 yrs nursing and counting!)


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## dandjsmama (Sep 13, 2003)

Well my OB says I need to wean my 3yo soon since breastfeeding could trigger early labor later on. I just shined her on of course but have no intention of stopping, and I guarantee neither does 3yo! Can anyone just assure me that it will be ok to keep going. I know I have heard it is, but how can doctors be so positive about what they think will happen?

Wendy


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## bonbon mama (May 16, 2003)

I never weaned my daughter when I became pregnant when she was 16 months old and I nursed through that pregnancy and miscarriage (no early labor, though; the babies died and some weeks later I still didn't have labor) and I didn't wean her with this pregnancy (delivered when she was 35 months). I was a little high risk for premature delivery this time and I went to 38.5 weeks.

It seems, from my reading, that the receptors in your uterus have to be open for business before hormonal stimulation from nipple stimulation or orgasm will cause premature contractions. Personally, I would watch if contractions intensify during nursing or don't go away after nursing. How often/intensely does a three year old usually nurse anyway? You're hopefully getting more hormonal stimulation from DP anyway!? LOL.

Good luck!


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## shinybutton (May 30, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by dandjsmama_
*I am concerned about going to the hospital to deliver and having to stay over night. How will 3yo sleep/not nurse for all that time. Wendy*
If you're still nursing then, check and see if your hospital has any provision for early release. My hospital has instituted a new plan whereby a mother and new baby, who don't have any serious complications, can be released after 24 hours from the birth and then are visited by a nurse at home for the next couple of day to check on them and make sure all is well. I plan to use this if at all possible since last time it was like torture to be in the hospital that long even though we insisted on keeping the baby in the room with us. I barely got any sleep there.


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## shinybutton (May 30, 2003)

Well, weaning has happened,and not at all like I expected. I ended up with a UTI and the OB put me on Macrobid. It was Sat. when I called him and it sounded like he was at the hospital getting ready to deliver someone's baby so I didn't try to call back after I got the Rx and discovered in the insert that it said that this drug was incompatible with breastfeeding and would pass through breastmilk. I was freaked! I explained the situation to ds (3.5) ,that we'd have to not have "sleepy juice " for a week while Mommy took this medicine. He said it was fine. Well, I figured that would last until bedtime. But as it turned out he really was fine and settled for "skin"(tummy to tummy) as his comfort to go to sleep. I was amazed. It helped that he's recently given up naps so he's really exhausted when he goes down. I bought a pump the next day but after 45 minutes I got not one lousy drop! Did I dry up that fast? I was heartbroken to think that this was it. That weaning had been thrust onto us so ubruptly and that I would have to tell him that the weeks break had turned into several months until the baby came.I thought he'd feel betrayed. He was fine when I told him. I got onto one of the boards and asked some advice only to hear that they all have taken Macrobid while breastfeeding with no problems.I decided not to say anything more to ds until I knew for sure what was going on.On Monday I called the nurse and she said that all the inserts say that and that it was fine to take the Macrobid while nursing but since he'd weaned so easily and I wasn't having any engorgement that I could just be grateful it went so well. I'm going to be 40 in October and the idea that all my body's resources could now be channeled to the growing baby (due in Feb) sounded pretty good, especially since he really did seem to be coping quite well. So I didn't say anything to him about trying to start up again,even though the ladies on my board thought it was possible still. I still plan to let him decide if he wants to have it again after the new baby comes. He's chosen to sleep in his own bed almost all the time lately, although he still wants me to lay down with him until he falls asleep. I decided to wear a bra explaining to him that I didn't want us to be sleepy and forget that we weren't supposed to have the sleepy juice. This morning, it's been a week since weaning and he came to our bed to get me and then asked for "skin" when I lay down with him.I was so sleepy, I forgot the bra,but when he snuggled up to me he said, "see MaMa, I didn't pop on." (meaning he didn't forget) I'm so proud of my little guy and so releived it's gone so well. I wanted to share this story here since officially, in my book, he's just on sabbatical from nursing until he tells me he's done for good! We'll see after the new baby comes.


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## sozobe (Aug 5, 2002)

That sounds great, Jeanne!

One thing that comes to mind when reading your story is that maybe there hadn't been any milk for a while, or very, very little? My dd is in the process of weaning and I didn't realize until after it had been happening for a while (don't know how long) that often, even when she was latched on, she wasn't getting any milk. The only way I can tell now is if I ask her (and she is not the most reliable source) or to pull the nipple out and see if a tiny drop of milk beads.

At any rate, even when there isn't milk, I know she finds comfort in "nursing" (human pacifier), and the ease with which your ds switched to "skin" makes me wonder if perhaps he had been getting comfort from that rather than from milk per se for a while.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

My daughter (6.5yrs) has gone 4 nights without nursing so far! For a long time I've been offering her a choice at bedtime (tickle, massage, or nurse) and until recently she almost always chose to nurse. But for the past 4 nights she chose tickle or massage. She surprised me, and I think she has surprised herself too







. I am so glad I have trusted her needs and chose to take this path, this just feels so right. This is the way I wanted it: no trauma, no sadness, no struggles, no tricking or lying, no engorgement. I know that she will probably go back and forth for a while (thanks to Firemom's sharing of her experience







) and I am perfectly fine with that. This is just a huge step for us! She has been on the plateau of nursing just at night (almost every night) for almost 2 years now.

Firemom, did you experience any hormonal changes (emotional or physical)? I am guessing there won't be any because it has happened so gradually, my milk supply has gradually and naturally decreased, so any upsets are not expected...









Mother_Sunshine


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

Here is some good info on nursing while pg.

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/tandem/faq/index.html

Quote:

Well my OB says I need to wean my 3yo soon since breastfeeding could trigger early labor later on. I just shined her on of course but have no intention of stopping, and I guarantee neither does 3yo! Can anyone just assure me that it will be ok to keep going. I know I have heard it is, but how can doctors be so positive about what they think will happen?
How can drs act so sure? I think they learn that attitdue in med school. But human lactation and infant nutrition, they do not study!!!


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## biberin (Jun 25, 2003)

Orgasm triggers far stronger contractions than breastfeeding does, especially when you're talking about a 3yo. If your doc says you can't have sex, then you need to wean. Otherwise, you shouldn't have to worry about it. Geez, like you wouldn't notice serious contractions yourself!

I am fortunate to have found a very pro-homebirth doc in a state where direct entry midwifery is illegal and CNMs don't do homebirth. I looked him in the eye and said, "I am still nursing my 3yo. If it causes excessive contractions, I will be in touch." And he said okay. He really believes that I am in charge of my own health, and he will help when invited. I'm not sure he had ever met a nursing 3yo before, but he was willing to trust my judgment.


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Hi - I just thought I'd stop by here. My dd1 (4 years old this month) is almost - I think - finished with nursing. I have a newborn (almost 4 weeks old), and dd1 has only asked to nurse twice since he was born.

She'll often comment that she's old enough that she doens't need to nurse - I think she's beginning to see nursing as something that babies/younger children do? (I have a 2.5 year old dd who is nursing a lot now that my milk has come back in!)

Anyway - it will be interesting to see how it all plays out. The two times she has nursed, it has been at bedtime, but most of the time, we just sit and talk for a few minutes before she goes to sleep (that is her routine when dh puts her to bed, so that's what she's started to do with me as well).

I'm so glad her weaning has been (still is?) gradual - and I really appreciate having this thread here, to know that I'm not alone in nursing an older child.

Thanks, Mamas!


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## spryte (Jan 27, 2002)

Mother_sunshine and dd-





























what an awesome description. huge hugs. I am so happy you and your dd are having such a sweet nursing change.

If she weans will you have a nursing party?

Is anyone else planning on a weaning party?


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

No I didn't have any hormonal changes just sadness because of change. I was happy and sad that she weaned, I think you know what I mean. It's just an end to something that mom and child experienced together for so long and it was like having a secret (for lack of a better word) that no one else could share.

It's still nice between us. We read most nights in bed and she cuddles and pats my breasts and even pretend nurses over my pj's and talks very fondly of nursing.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Thank you Spryte!







I told my daughter that after 2 weeks we will have a little family party to celebrate.

It's been 6 nights now without nursing.....BUT yesterday afternoon she asked to nurse, I said okay, and she nursed for a short time then laughed and said that she is forgetting how. She willingly went to bed with dh the last 2 nights. Tonight she asked to nurse, I said okay, but then she changed her mind and happily went off to bed. We'll see what happens the next time I put her to bed...

Firemom, Yes I do know what you mean. I am starting to feel a little bit of sadness....actually it's starting right now after reading your heartfelt post....I think sadness and possible feelings of loss will come when I know she's completely finished. I am happy and proud of how weaning has gradually happened, but I will miss nursing her. We'll move on to other special times together though. Our latest thing is to sing songs together for bedtime (I have a feeling this will stay a while too).

Who was it here at MDC who said:

Quote:

"The phrase 'extended nursing' should be stricken from the language, so that there is simply...nursing.
'Extended' implies a 'stretching out' of something--I haven't stretched out my children's nursing time, I've just met their needs."
I love that quote.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

That's such a great quote! I tried using "full-term nursing" for a while myself, but the quote is so eloquent.


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

That is a great quote


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

My daughter, who will be 7 in January, has almost completely weaned herself. Gradually over the past few months she stopped nursing every night and she now hasn't nursed in over a week. She still talks about "Mama milk" sometimes, like the other day when she was sick ("Why don't they make medicine taste like Mama milk?"), but she hasn't asked. I assume she will be asking again, and I will welcome her with open arms...but if she doesn't then I'll welcome that with open arms too.

Over the past several months I have given her a choice of bedtime rituals: back/feet tickle, back massage, sing songs together, or nurse. She almost always chose to nurse until a few months ago when it became every other night, then every few nights, and now it has been around a week (maybe longer, I stopped counting the days).

I thought this day would never come.







I was starting to worry (just a little bit) that she wouldn't be weaning herself, that child-led weaning doesn't work with all children, but my worries were wrong. I would have gone longer, as long as she needed to, but I am happy that she is weaning herself now. With a lot of trust and patience it has happened. And I am so proud of us! This is the way I had hoped for, that I could trust that she would wean when she no longer needed it. That there would be no pressure to wean (though we did go through a few times when I wrongfully let other people influence me), no tears of regret on my part, or tears of sadness or struggle on her part. That it would happen one day...and we would hardly notice it.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Mother sunshine, thanks for inviting me over here







Quite a thread you have going! I don't "think" I've posted on this thread, but its so huge, who knows! I probably didn't think I qualified, but now that ds is 4 years old, I guess we do







My hat is off to all you tandem nursers and nursing through pregnancy mamas. I'm sure its much easier for me with one. In fact, it isn't a burden at all - its a special time that I treasure (not to say that we don't have our moments!). Its nice to have a resource for real-life child-led weaning experiences of "older" children. Thanks for sharing your stories.


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## biberin (Jun 25, 2003)

My son is 3.5, and we recently went to a college dance concert, a mix of styles. The second act was two belly dancers. My son asked if the two ladies were mamas, and I said no, all the dancers were college students. He asked again, and I said no again, and he said, "But they have big milks!" because of course they were wearing bikini tops and shaking their breasts. We were in the back, but I'm not sure how many people got enlightened. . .


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## mumju (Jun 23, 2002)

I want to thank you ladies for adding all your thoughts and experiences about nursing your children. Our oldest son will be four in december and we're 'still' nursing along with his baby brother who just turned one. Our ds LOVES his mumma's milk soooooo much - better than anything in the world! He has multiple food allergies (peanuts and cow's milk) so he's had to go through a lot and his mumma's milks have helped him emotionally and nutritionally. He is amazing and I just want to thank you for reassuring me that nursing an older child is not only normal but beautiful and precious. I will continue to embrace these times until he decides he's had enough (college-age, I think). If he had his druthers, he'd drink it all day long so I do have to limit it but, it's okay with him. I'm going to make it a point to come to visit you ladies often - i need your support! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!! -Mother to two wonderful boys!!!!


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## shinybutton (May 30, 2003)

I'm 6 months along now with #2 and ds is still on temp. sabbatical from "sleepy juice". He's still sleeping in his own bed and just coming in our bed in the morning for snuggles. He still likes to touch my breasts but doesn't ask to drink any. He sometimes tells me sadly that it's a long time to wait for it,(until the baby comes) and then, I feel really sad for him, but I know I made the right decision because I'm sure I wouldn't want to be nursing right now. I'm healthier this pregnancy but I still am pretty uncomfortable and I think it would be a drain on my physical resources. I have noticed that he is far less easy to soothe when he's upset and I sometimes miss that resource. He is also allergic to cow's milk so I've been giving him chewable suppliments and fortified rice milk and a little soy treats now and then. He's stayed healthy, just one little cold he knocked faster than I did. Seems to be working out pretty well so far.
I'm so glad to come visit this thread now and then and connect with other soft hearted moms.I'd feel pretty lonely without you all, so thanks everyone, for sharing!


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Just another "WAY TO GO" to all the mommas on this thread.

DS is 26 months now, so we have quite a while to join you







(And DD has been weaned since March







).


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

mother sunshine, your dd will probably talk about nursing for a long time. Mine still remembers and talks fondly of it still. I do want her to remember. My son also thinks of breastfeeding as perfectly normal and I want both of them to carry that in to adulthood!


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Just a question - my dd1 - 4 y, 2 m - asked to nurse 2 nights ago, so I let her. This was the first time she had nursed in 2 months.

She hasn't asked since, but that was only two days ago, so she might. I've certainly heard her comment to her little sister that it will be her turn to nurse after dd2 is finished.

Is this something others have experienced? I kind of thought she was all done - but does the weaning process sometimes continue long after you thought it was finished?!

Just curious about other peoples' experiences...


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Firemom_
*mother sunshine, your dd will probably talk about nursing for a long time. Mine still remembers and talks fondly of it still. I do want her to remember. My son also thinks of breastfeeding as perfectly normal and I want both of them to carry that in to adulthood!*
Thanks Firemom, I too want dd to remember nursing. I'm sure she will since she already has such a strong opinion of it! She has continued nursing again. She seems to be on a nursing roller coaster, skipping a week or two then asking to nurse every night or every other night again. I guess I got too cocky and sentimental, thinking she had weaned...









Carolyn, I don't have two, and dd hasn't gone more than a couple of weeks without nursing (although I thought she was almost finished), but I do know that child-led weaning is often very slow and drawn-out with lots of ups & downs. Perhaps your dd sees her sister nursing, misses it, and doesn't want to miss out on the wonderful comfort. Good for you for letting her!


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## mumju (Jun 23, 2002)

Hi fellow natural mummas:

I am tandem-nursing my two sweet sons. My ds is almost four and my other ds just turned one. I love that I can help my oldest through a lot of difficult situations or feelings with the closeness of my milk (he calls it "this") but sometimes "I" feel like enough is enough. I love giving him some sometimes but I need to limit it. If I didn't, he would have it all day long - he loves it! Now that I limit it to about once or twice a day, he wants to kiss my milks. I suppose it's a kind of "thank you" or a longing for them. Can anyone relate to this? He has resently wanted to brush up against them or just grab them (which I feel very uncomfortable with and he knows that and I have to keep reminding him. .. yikes!).









I truly love doing what I am doing - letting my little men decide when they are individually ready to wean but I'm having a little trouble with the touching issue. ..

I just need to hear from all you incredible mummas who I can relate to more than any words can describe.

Until we talk again, Happy nursing, Happy natural mothering, Happy days to you all. We are doing the right thing for our children, for us, and I believe, in the long run, for society. (wow , that's a lot to ingest!!!). -mumma J


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Ds has been nursing 2x a day for a while now. He turned 4 last month, and just this week, he has "forgotten" to nurse in the morning two or three times. One day he asked to nurse in the afternoon (to make up for it?). The other night he woke up to potty, and when he came back to bed, he snuggled to sleep instead of nursing - a first! Part of me is sad that weaning is progressing, but then there are those times, especially around "that time of the month", when the nursing irritates me. So maybe we are slowly getting ready to wean together. Nursing still provides a strong connection/wind-down at the end of the day.


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Thanks, Mother Sunshine - dd1 nursed one more time, and then hasn't asked again. We shall see where this goes.







I think she's conflicted at times - wants to nurse (sometimes), but also sees the baby (3 months old) nursing, and wants to be more grown-up than that!

We've talked about how babies, toddler and children all need to nurse, just less as they get older until they decide they are ready to stop. So she knows it's normal for older children to nurse.

But it's still important to her to be 'grown-up'! Children are funny...


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

My 3 1/2 year old wants to nurse every hour, at least. It's driving me crazy. As it is my 1 year old only nurses on one side and not very often. I feel like he is getting neglected because of her nursing. I offer to read to her, do arts/crafts with her, bake, anything. She only screams at me more. It's getting very frustrating. I'm all for child led weaning but really need some limits here.


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## biberin (Jun 25, 2003)

I have had good luck by "giving in" and offering to nurse even more than my son asked. Eventually it got through his head that I was truly available to him, and he decided he would do more interesting things together. He still goes up and down in spurts when there are big transitions, but it doesn't take long to get back to an even keel.


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## velcromom (Sep 23, 2003)

Hi All,
we are just at one year now and I have no intention of weaning, I think that as we go along we will find ways to meet both our needs respectfully. Right now he nurses a lot so I don't see it slowing down anytime soon.
I don't feel we're really "extended" but I know others will so I am gearing up to deal with some opposition from now on. It's great to hear from other moms who have made similar choices for their nursing relationship.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Ekblad7, I only have 1 so I can only guess that maybe she is picking up on your frustration and needs to make sure that you still love her unconditionally. No matter what else we do with them, at that age, nothing comforts and makes them feel completely loved as nursing. It's obviously a need, if she is asking so often, but IMO a limit can be set if it is negatively affecting your relationship with her. Maybe sit down together (just the 2 of you) with a pencil and paper, present the problem, and take turns coming up with ideas for solutions (while you write it down). Then work together to mutually decide on a solution (ie: only nurse after waking, after breakfast, lunch, dinner and before bed, have alone time when brother naps, etc.). If she has power over the decision too then maybe she'll bend a little (and maybe some of the need will be met). I've found the "How to talk so kids will listen, how to listen so kids will talk" by Faber and Mazlish so *so* helpful. If only I could get dh to read it....

Since you're moderator of many boards, I feel a little funny giving you advice







, but I hope it at least helps to know that you're supported.


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## velcromom (Sep 23, 2003)

Quote:

I've found the "How to talk so kids will listen, how to listen so kids will talk" by Faber and Mazlish so so helpful.
I have to second that, Faber and Mazlish are great in giving real life examples of how to do it, too, instead of just spouting a lot of theory. They learned their methods from Dr. Haim Ginott and anything by him is excellent also.


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

MY problem when DS still nursed was his asking at night. This was when he was 4.

What I found was when I managed to not resist and to relax into his timetable, he relaxed, became more secure and then asked less often. It wasn't always easy.

With DD I've mostly managed to remember that and have mostly stayed relaxed about nursing. I suppose it helps that I know what's going on having BTDT with her brother.









And that is a Great book. Very helpful.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Question 1: 4yo ds is slowing down to nursing only at bedtime. I've read so much about how children are being hit especially hard with the flu ... is once a day nursing still providing him antibodies? Last night he was so tired, he fell asleep before he'd nursed much.

Question 2: do any of you still nurse your child to sleep? If so, how do you handle bedtime when you have guests? We had company last night, dh came home late (therefore he wasn't available to entertain guests), so I let ds stay up waaaay past his bedtime. Company finally left about 10:30. Ds was obviously tired and needing sleep .. and this ties in with my flu concerns too. We all need our rest to fight it off.


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

I'm not really sure about question number 1 but as for number 2 I would just say try to explain to the guests that your child needs to go to bed. None of my kids ever had to nurse to sleep but they all need/needed me to lay down with them. It usually doesn't take more than 15 or 20 minutes. You don't have to tell them that you are going to nurse him if you don't want to.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by callmemama_
*Question 1: 4yo ds is slowing down to nursing only at bedtime. I've read so much about how children are being hit especially hard with the flu ... is once a day nursing still providing him antibodies? Last night he was so tired, he fell asleep before he'd nursed much.*
YES you are definitely still providing him with antibodies even if it's just once a day. I imagine that the more breastmilk he receives the more antibodies would be provided to him, but once a day is SO much better than not at all.

Quote:

_Question 2: do any of you still nurse your child to sleep? If so, how do you handle bedtime when you have guests? We had company last night, dh came home late (therefore he wasn't available to entertain guests), so I let ds stay up waaaay past his bedtime. Company finally left about 10:30. Ds was obviously tired and needing sleep .. and this ties in with my flu concerns too. We all need our rest to fight it off. [/B]_
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_
_
You are right to worry that a tired body makes for a weaker body, thus more prone to illness IF the virus is exposed to the body. I nursed my daughter to sleep until past age 4 (actually it was more like almost 6, I just don't want to scare off anyone). When we've had guests I've just quickly and politely said "excuse me for a bit, it's bedtime for dd" and put her to bed as usual, no questions asked. If dh wasn't there, I probably would have explained to them that dd needed to go to bed by 8:00 (or whatever time, just to prepare them) otherwise she would have a huge meltdown. That should get them out on time, nobody likes to witness a meltdown, and if they were still wanting to stay when bedtime came I would just say "excuse me for a bit, it's bedtime for dd, make yourselves at home" and maybe make some popcorn and put in a movie for them to watch. ...Or just brave it out like you did. Ds will only get sick if he is exposed to a virus. Allow him to "catch up" on sleep the next night._


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Thanks so much for your suggestions (and reassurance)! Ds slept in this morning and got to bed at a reasonable time tonight, so hopefully he can "catch up" on his sleep. We've been out and about quite a bit this week, so I'm hoping we haven't encountered "the virus"!!


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## ColesMom (Dec 3, 2001)

WOW! This thread has been a real lifesaver! I've been struggling along lately tandem nursing my 4 year old (turned 4 in October) and 10 month old and feeling like I was the only person in the world doing so and feeling generally torn and vulnerable to criticism for doing it.

NOW, however, after spending the last hour reading all of your wonderful posts, I feel fortified and renewed in my determination to allow my 4 year old to wean himself at his own pace (and my 10 month old of course!).

Thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Welcome ColesMom







Glad you found us!


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## ColesMom (Dec 3, 2001)

Thanks Mother_Sunshine! I'm so glad I found you too. I like being in touch with my fellow "freaky moms" as my pediatrician sister describes all of us AP practicing mothers!


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Colesmom---

My DD weaned at 4 years, 2 months when DS was 18 months old. Having nursed one child *that* long, I just wanted to tell you--- you are in for such a "treat" when your older one weans. My DS (now 28 months) still seems like such a BABY. Good luck and I'm looking forward to "belonging" here in another 6 months (do you thinkg 3 is old enough to be "older children"?)!

Kay


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

Thanks for this thread. My ds is 3.5 and still loves "Mommy Milk everyday." One of the things I am so grateful for is that when we had the flu at Christmas and the Norwalk Virus when he was one, he never became dehydrated becaused he nursed. He went one day without eating or drinking when he had the Norwalk virus but he was fine.

This time with the flu, he was really hot in the beginning and wouldn't nurse for 2 days! But he drank a lot of water instead. I think he had a headache and with the fever I don't think he liked lying on his side to nurse - just a guess.

Going to LLL meetings really keeps my self-weaning goal intact. There are days when I'm so DONE nursing but then I get over it. We had a long run of thrushiness - 2 years! and during that time it was hard but we made it through that too.

I wonder if children who spend their days at home with Mom nurse longer than those who go to preschool or daycare? We have a 3 year old friend in daycare who still nurses but that's the only child I know of. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Rebecca


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## huntersmommy (Dec 28, 2003)

*Now that I limit it to about once or twice a day, he wants to kiss my milks. I suppose it's a kind of "thank you" or a longing for them. Can anyone relate to this? He has resently wanted to brush up against them or just grab them (which I feel very uncomfortable with and he knows that and I have to keep reminding him. .. yikes!).*

I have this with dd, she does exactly the same thing and I just let her know that this is my body too and she has to respect it. If she needs "warm milk" as she calls it she can ask. But grabbing isn't appropriate. SH eunderstands and doesn't do it to be difficult, more just in a playful manner, but I still think she needs to repect that it wouldn't be appropriate for someone to just walk up and grab her so she can't do that to me either.

Another mom asked about ebf with a child in school, my dd is in jk at Waldorf and she still bf very very often inthe day. I see no signs of self-weaning yet and especially after finding this website, I feel very renewed in my goals and beleifs to be ther efor both my babies as long as they need me. WHich in a way scares me a little when I think that I could very well bf for 8-9 years straight!....lol

DD nurses to sleep sometimes, I find it a bit difficult at times though because dd and ds go to sleep around the same time. SO usually what we do is dd gets tucked in..(she has a mattress beside my bed) and I nurse ds to sleep. If dd is still awake when I am done then she will either nurse or get a massage. For moms who are trying to eliminate the nighttime nurse this has been a wonderful substitition for us. I didn't start it to take bf place, we just started doing a massage nightly with thei wonderful oil Solum OL from Wala, and most nights she would be asleep by the time I was done and not nurse. Now some nights she asks to and some nights she doesn't

I just want to add a huge thank you to all the moms who have posted. I was really starting to think I was the only tandum ebf mom out there. None of my friends bf and they pretty much think I'm off my rocker...I ap, bw, ebf, bs and actually pay to send my dd to school...you would think I was from mars.....lol
It is nice to see other moms like me who can understand my hopes and goals.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

for what do the acronyms BW and BC stand?


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## huntersmommy (Dec 28, 2003)

what I meant was I practice co-sleeping and babywearing.:bf


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

for Colesmom


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Quote:

I wonder if children who spend their days at home with Mom nurse longer than those who go to preschool or daycare?
Both of mine spent their days with me and then went to 2 years of preschool (half day 2 or 3 per week) before Kindergarten, well DD is in her second year and will be in K this Fall.










DS nursed until just after turning 5. DD is still nursing semi-regularly at least twice in a 24 hour day.

One of my sisters who WOH continued nursing her second son well into toddlerhood. He stays with our parents during the day.

I think it depends on the mom, not the schooling or daycare situation.


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder if children who spend their days at home with Mom nurse longer than those who go to preschool or daycare?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think it matters. Here's my story. I am a working mom (2 long 24 hours shifts per week) and both of my children went to preschool.

My firstborn son weaned at 10 1/2 months
and
my second child (daughter) weaned at 5.9 years.

I think the difference for me was experience


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## shinybutton (May 30, 2003)

I'm so glad Mothering keeps sending me these notices referring back to this thread. I'm so busy,I'd forget about it otherwise and I really enjoy reading up on what everyone has contributed.
Some comments I have about what's been discussed are: I read that as the nursing becomes less frequent, the nutritional content and antibodies actually increase in the mother's milk so that the child is getting all that good protection right when they need it, when they are becoming more social and exposed to more viruses etc. I think kids in daycare need nursing even more than a stay at home kid. There are fewer opportunities timewise but apparently night nursing can make up for what they don't get during the day.
Update on our situation: Ds is still on nursing sabbatical until dd arrives and my milk comes back in late Feb. He doesn't mention it a lot but occasionally says he's looking forward to nursing again when the baby comes. He vacillates between wanting to act the big man and pretending he's a baby complete with babytalk and non verbal pointing for stuff.
Potty training is still a big issue. I'm very inconsistent in my responses, alternating between ordering him to go potty every hour or so, which meets with deep resistance and just changing the poopy diapers with little or no comment. I'm frustrated by it and wonder if the sudden wean at 3.5 had anything to do with the lack of progress in this area. He'll be 4 in late Feb. around the same time #2 is born. I may be worrying too soon but he's been so avanced in every area that most people think he's five, so the potty thing is the only thing he lags behing his peers in. I was hoping to send him to school soon but want this issue resolved before that.
He's already bonded with the new baby. He kisses my big tummy every day and even brushed it when he found his old baby brush yesterday. He says he loves her and that she's going to be our baby always. It's so sweet. He's actually helping me bond with her. I didn't feel very connected to him before he was born but I already feel attached to her, maybe because I'm not as scared this time and know more what I'm in for.


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## Patchfire (Dec 11, 2001)

DD is nearly 3.5, and almost all of our relatives think she's been weaned for a while now. My mom & dad still know, and lately my mom's been pressuring me to wean. Not only that, but I'm feeling that cultural pressure that I wasn't before. I guess sometimes it feels like I can't completely separate myself from the culture I'm in, you know? DD doesn't nurse very much, just before bed and maybe once at night. She enjoys it so much, though, I know that she's not ready to wean, and that if I pushed her towards it now, that's what it would be - me pushing, her reluctant (at best). I guess I just need some support for this last leg of the journey, letting her decide when it's over.


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

If so, you could send her this thread to read:

Hi Patchfire's Mom! Your daughter is doing the most wonderful thing for your granddaughter. You must be so proud of her knowing how how culture is lagging behind the rest of the developed world when it comes to nursing and the incredible value of human milk.

I'm sure once you read the posts here you'll see she isn't the only one out there providing this loving gift and she really needs the support you've been giving her all her life right now.

It's not the easiest thing to nurse a 3 year old. I had only planned to nurse my son until he was 2. I figured this was way beyond what was expected and I just could not imagine being one of those women with a 3 or 4 year old talking away and then draped over the lap to nurse.

But my son is now 3 1/2 and tells me that mommy milk is the best thing and that he's going to drink it until he's 5. He's as tall as some 5 year olds we know and we get the most interesting looks(I'm 45) except when we go to La Leche League meetings.

Hang in there with her and watch what an incredible person your granddaughter is becoming thanks to extended nursing and all its many benefits.

Have a lovely day,
Rebecca


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

I gotta say, my son is only 2.75, and I am committed to child-led weaning. But I am very much aware of social pressure and I'm starting to feel it more and more internally -- and my son nurses frequently in all kinds of places and in all kinds of ways. At 37 pounds, it's a sight to behold. One thing I absolutely can not understand in any way shape or form, however, is pressure from somebody to wean a child who isn't even nursing in public. The only people who experience her actual nursing are people who fully support it, right? So why interfere with that? Besides, she's nursing to sleep and maybe once at night? Gees! What's the big deal about that if both of you are happy with the arrangement.

Also, I count myself grateful that my son nurses to sleep -- I know people who've weaned or night-weaned and they have to go through such an incredible process to get their kids to sleep. Besides, my son is so healthy physically, mentally, emotionally. Why in the world would I deprive him of that? And for somebody else's opinion based on absolutely nothing -- not even concern about how it looks (which is a terrible reason as it is). I mean, no reason is even worse than a bad reason.

I don't know how to suggest that you resist the pressure from your parents. But I do know this: Every time that I have made a decision that is inconsistent with my instinct and due to external pressure, I regret it. I regret it and decide that I will never succumb again. I am a parent in this moment to this child only once, and these decisions about how I use that moment are mine to make and mine with which to live eternally. I will not let somebody else, something else decide it for me. And especially for no good reason, let alone no reason at all!

That wasn't nearly as positive and uplifting a post as the previous one, which I thoroughly enjoyed reading. But I hope it helps you in some way, to feel supported, to give you the gumption you need. Maybe you could come up with something that you will say to her every time that she suggests it. I'm not good at those, but here's one possibility: "Mom, I've decided to let my daughter determine when she will wean. Nursing is good for her body and soul, and it's good for me body and soul. If it's right for us, then it's right for our whole family. When you suggest that I wean her prematurely, I feel unsupported and anxious. If I were to wean her early based simply upon your (or somebody else's) urging, I would feel disappointed/regretful/profoundly empty for the rest of my life. I don't want that for my daughter, I don't want that for me, and I don't want that for you."

If you go the route that I mention here, be sure that you are thorough and very accurate as to the depth of your feelings on the matter or it won't take. I mean, she won't respect it. Eg: My husband was pressuring me for a while, and I resisted it, asked him not to, etc., but he persisted. Then one day in a conversation with a friend, I realized that if his mentioning it in front of our son ever interfered with the nursing relationship, I would never forgive my husband. I thought, "That is the depth of my feelings, and I owe it to my husband to let him know." I did, and he has respected it ever since. (This is all based on the conflict resolution described in Parent Effectiveness Training by Thomas Gordon, incase you have/haven't read it.)


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

I have not yet read through this entire thread but I wanted to applaud all you mama`s!
I actually came to this forum to post a support thread.I need it these days.I am so tired and stressed and although I know my girls need the breast now more than ever(a recent family trauma)I really need a break from it,however I am very VERY thankful they have the comfort and all the other goodies of EBF.
My twins are 3.3 years old.
My homeopath has suggested quite a few times to wean bc its using up too much of my energy.I dont want to wean,so, I enrolled in a Muay Thai Kickboxing class









ETA:Thank you for this thread!


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## shinybutton (May 30, 2003)

That just rips me when doctors tell you to wean because it's supposed to be a drain on the mother. They aren't taught anything about breastfeeding in medical school but they think they can dish out advice on it. According to the research, breastfeeding and particularly extended breastfeeding has enormous health benefits for the mother. Here are some links you might be interested in accessing for your doctor to educate him on the subject.

http://www.mothering.com/news-bullet...#breastfeeding

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/3156/care.htm

http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBJulAug01p124.html

I know that it sometimes feels like a hassle to be breastfeeding for so long but I've btdt with weaning ,and let me tell you, I sorely miss the easy road to sleep, the quick fix for the tantrum, the calm that used to come over me in the moments he relaxed into me and the storm was over for both of us, the confidence that he was better protected from the various viruses and such that go around, that if he contracted one, he'd be hydrated and over it quicker than any of us or his un-nursed peers. I miss it a lot and would not be dissapointed if he decides to take it up again after his baby sister is born. I ended up dried up, but would gladly let him have it again then, if that's what he decides to do. On the other hand, if he decides he's really done for good, I'll be just as proud of him for his choice. He's already seeming so much more grown up in so many ways.He'll turn 4 right around her due date.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

My little guy is one week shy of 4 years, 2 months ... and he didn't nurse at all yesterday. He ALWAYS nurses to sleep! He asked for a backrub first, then didn't ask to nurse. I'm really torn. Is he suddenly done? Its up to him, but part of me feels sad.


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## huntersmommy (Dec 28, 2003)

my dd is 4.5yrs and she barely ever nurses to sleep anymore. But I can assure you we are no where close to weaning. SOme days I think they just need to be a little more independant. I think it shows how secure he is in your nursing relationship.
with dd I went thru about 18 mths were I literally worked 90-100 hrs a week and some days only saw her for a few minutes (not my choice, but you do what you have to do right!)
She would only nurse for a couple minutes some days and that was when she was just 2 yrs. Here we are all this time later and her desire to nurse is still very strong.

Hope this gives you a little bit of hope and eases your mind.:bf


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

but yesterday He was up early and didn't nurse all day and there was no nap. Then he was nodding off during dh's story so he had about 2 minutes of nursing before conking out. Wow!

Of course, from 5 am on he was tanking up on me before getting us up at 5:51!









Rebecca


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## Jenivere (Aug 4, 2003)

I've lurked on Mothering for a long time but I only registerd a few months ago and I don't post much...

I am nursing my two year old son (turns two tomorrow) and my two week old daughter. I had Jacob down to three times a day but with Emma here he wants to nurse a lot more. I don't mind all that much as it only lasts a minute or two (the extra feedings anyways.) But sometimes it really annoys me and I have times where I just don't want to nurse him anymore. He has just recently started to ask (with words) by saying "nurse." It's so cute and said in the sweetest way that I can't resist. He loves to nurse and with a new baby I hate to throw in another big change like weaning. So I am going back and forth between really wanting him to wean and thinking I'll let him wean on his own. But as much as he loves it he may be one that goes til 3 or even 5 and I'm not sure I want to do that.

So perhaps I just need a little support to keep going or to stop; I'm not sure which....


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Hi Jenivere! It's hard to nurse a 2 year old when you have a newborn - your body gears up for the newborn and can make it very irritating to nurse the older child.

I know from experience - I'm tandem nursing my dd2 and ds right now. DD2 is 2 years, 8 months, and ds is 4 months old. I find it VERY irritating at times (OK, most of the time) to nurse dd2. But I'm also not willing to wean her, as it is clear that she still needs to nurse - and it isn't her fault there is another baby, you know?

I do limit her nursing time - 4-5 minutes at a time is about all I can stand. When I'm ready for her to stop, I tell her that when I count to 5, it's time to let go. This was difficult at first, but it's part of her routine now, so it's fine.

I also try to keep busy and/or distract her if she is asking to nurse very frequently (every 1-2 hours, sometimes every 30 minutes) during the day. This also caused problems at first, but is usually OK now. If she really seems to need to nurse, I nurse her. I also nurse her if it's been more than 2-3 hours since she last nursed.

Good luck with your decision - it is possible to continue nursing, even when it's difficult. It's harder to set limits, the younger the child is, but there are two of you in the nursing relationship, and both of your feelings are important!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I've been wanting to join this thread for so long! My dd is 3 now. Do I fit in here yet? I'm due with #2 any day now and I'm planning to tandem. I'm so glad this thread is still around! Just wanted to introduce myself.


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## Len (Nov 19, 2001)

I can't believe I just saw this thread! I have read up to 15 pages, but got to go now.
I am the proud BF mom to a 4.5 yo boy, who says he will nurse until he is as tall as me (which wouldn't be too hard by the way) he just absolutely loves his mama's milk. I have been feeling really tired of nursing him (he's an only child) but after reading most of this thread, I feel empowered and supported.
Thanks and big hugs to all of you!
(And there are a few names that I didn't see post here, so there are still some EBF's out there who need to join







)


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## mamarain (Nov 20, 2001)

- just popping my head to say hello - still EBF:n my dd after 3yrs. I believe on it strongly and applaud all you hardcore mommas for doing it - even as your lap is filled with more than one babe. For me it has been a journey of commitment - yet i must admit that there are moments when i wish that i could have my breasts back.. and that bf:ing has also kept my libido so low, that there is absolutely no hope for another kid for me as long as she still keeps going... excellent birth control to put it in another way..


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## sweetmama (Apr 15, 2002)

Already posted here once, my dd is almost 4.5 and we nurse at bedtime only now. My milk which was once so abundant, is finally drying up so that she only nurses for a minute and then asks for her water cup. She LOVES nursing and has always been tearful at the mention of someday weaning altogether.

One night last month as she was done nursing she said to me, "when your body doesn't make milk anymore I'll still love you."

Now if that sort of comment isn't a side benefit of EB I don't know what is! I'm so glad we're still having those sweet nighttime moments!


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## Len (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by sweetmama_
*"when your body doesn't make milk anymore I'll still love you."*
awwwwww that is so sweet


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## Jenivere (Aug 4, 2003)

Thank you for responding!

The last few days I've been able to easily hand express a few ounces into a cup for my son and he really likes it that way! So I am thinking that I'll buy myself a nice pump and pump for him. He could still have breastmilk, it would just be from a cup instead of directly from the source. If I can get him to do that three times a day maybe it will be a good comprimise for both of us. As soon as I have the money for a pump I plan to try it out.


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## fishomama (Nov 27, 2002)

I messed up and posted this on the EB thread, too. Anyway -- I am tandem nursing my 3.5 yr old DD and my DS is a special needs 3 mo old. We are retraining him to nurse after hospitalization (disorganized suck) and my milk supply is low, possibily due to PCOS. I am using a Supplemental Nursing System to supplement with as much BM as possible for DS and am concerned about how/when to nurse DD so as not to take away from DS. I started restricting her "after pumping", "after DS nurses", etc., but it seemed like I was constantly putting her off and I didn't want to encourage sibling rivalry, which has thus far been far from an issue. I love nursing them together. The different sucks are sometimes a little irritating, but seeing DD hold DS's hand the whole time is such a treat!

Anyone have any feedback on any of these issues? I have just started taking Domperidone for supply and am taking daily wheatgrass to help, as well.

You gals are super! EBF is such a challenge sometimes (for me), but I could never imagine denying DD something she loves soooo much. She kisses them as if to say "goodbye until next time" when she's done (or when I'm done!).


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

I posted recently about 4yo ds not nursing one night. He hasn't nursed 3 nights this month, but they were spread out, not all in a row. He is "suddenly" growing up. At 4 years, 2 months, he started using the "big potty" - at his request. He started staying dry at night - yeah! And he's consciously choosing (on occasion) not to nurse at his one nursing of the day. What a right of passage for my "big boy". I hope his nursing doesn't end as abruptly as the night wetting - I'm going to need some time to adjust to this one!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I just wanted to bump this thread back up in case anybody new comes along and needs the support.

BTW, SBFmommy (formerly Devrock), of course you can join us! Welcome!









And a big CONGRATULATIONS to callmemama for ds's big step toward potty training!


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Thanks Mother Sunshine







I should clarify that ds went to the "big potty" from the "little potty"! He's been dry during the day for a year, but the night has been a whole different story. Thankfully, he's only had one accident now in about 3 weeks, so I'm hoping he's on his way!! Those x-large diaper covers are getting too small - especially with 3 dipes inside!!! Oops, this isn't the diapering thread! But I do wonder if his lightening up on the nursing at bedtime has anything to do with his dry nights? Anyone else seen a correlation?


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

My son is 2 months shy of 3 y.o. The nighttime dryness issue that i see has two facets:

--If he's terribly tired, he's more likely to wet the bed while sleeping.
--If he drinks water/juice/etc. within about 2 hours of going to sleep, he is more likely to need to pee during the night.

He can nurse frequently before and during the night and it makes no difference whatsoever with nighttime peeing -- he can hold it for some 10 hours or more, if he only nurses.

Maybe he just went through a growth spurt and that brought a bigger bladder or stronger surrounding muscles or need for more liquid (i.e., more being absorbed into the body) or something?


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## mountain (Dec 12, 2001)

Glad this thread got bumped so I can bump right on in here with my almost 7 years of nursing--

My son nursed until one day, I was like 7 mo pg, he took some milk, got up & ran into the bathroom & puked his guts out---saying 'yech, ugh, gross' It was a proud moment as a mother, I tell you what. He was 4 at the time. Dd is still going strong at 2 1/2, and actually when ds got sick at the beginning of this winter he asked to nurse...so it didn't scar him forever.

I don't know many people who go so long, but I think every minute & every ounce counts...I'll keep on keepin on & I thank you mamas for doing the same


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Thank you for the welcome, Mother Sunshine! I had my baby, so I'm now an official Tandem momma.


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## napless (Mar 20, 2003)

I tandem nursed for a year - until ds#1 was 3 1/2. He would have happily continued, but I needed to stop. It was a very gradual process. I salute those of you who keep on going until child-led weaning happens!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

CONGRATULATIONS SBFmommy!!!












































Happy Valentine's Day everyone!


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

I made up my mind when I was first pregnant that I was going to let my kids decide when they wanted to be weaned, no matter how long that took ! And I stuck to it. My oldest was 6years/ 3 mos. when he tapered off (he's 7 now, so its only been a little over a year) and my 5 y/o still is at it and going strong. So I was tandem nursing some rather bigger kids for awhile, but I didnt mind. I have to admit that I miss that and was sorry when ds1 stopped at 6 ! I kinda wished he had kept going (I even cried a little!)


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Welcome Shann! I'm so glad you've joined us!









My dd is 7 and nurses every few days, more or less (right now it's less but a few weeks ago it was more). It feels completely natural and "right" to let her continue until she is ready to stop. I thought she was almost weaned a few months ago but then she started back up again. I'm completely okay with that. I guess she's going to have a very *long* tapering off. :LOL


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## loftmama (Feb 12, 2004)

Wow. I can't believe I found all of you. My 3 1/2 year old ds completely self-weaned at 3 years old. I never "planned" to nurse beyond a year. At age 2, he said he would stop nursing when he turned 3. He said he'd be a big boy, and big boys don't nurse. Well, after he turned 3, for a month afterwards, he said he was still 2. Then one day, he said he was 3 and he stopped nursing after that. (I didn't put all this together till later.) In the meantime, I became pregnant and we moved. He began nursing again, which wasn't much, so I didn't worry about it. But now that little brother is here...oh, my goodness... he wants to nurse all day, all the time. It's making me crazy. So, here I am tandem nursing a 3 1/2 year-old and an 8-wk-old. Wow. I guess it's okay. But I do get feelings of resentment and want to push the older one away. Then I feel so bad once I've forced him off. I keep trying to imagine how I'd feel if he rejects me when he's older. He barely even touches real food anymore. I keep thinking that if I just knew when the end would come, it wouldn't be so bad.


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## lilgreen (Dec 5, 2003)

Hello!

My ds is 26.5mos and nurses all the time. We love it. DH and family keep asking when we'll stop and I keep telling them, 'when he's done.'

I am a full-time student right now, so I've been able to be at home with ds. Unfortunately, I'm worried that our nursing habits will be seriously disrupted when I return to work full-time (and irregular shifts, too) in the fall.

Well, we shall see... For now, we're a happy nursing couple!

Take good care and keep up the good work, Ladies!

Beth


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Do I need some help from you Mama's whose older nurslings are tapering off!! Ds is 4. He was down to one nursing at bedtime, which he has skipped occasionally. Then for a few days, he started nursing when he woke up too - so the supply increased! Then he skipped nursing two nights/days in a row. Now I'm feeling like I'm getting a plugged duct. One morning I did ask him to nurse the side that was uncomfortable, but he just did for a second and quit, so I don't want to push it. I can't seem to express (even with a pump) any more. He tells me he still gets lots of milk, and from the way I'm feeling right now, I tend to believe him! Any advice?!


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

I am hoping my 5 y/o ds will keep on to 6, 7, or beyond ! I MAY even try to quietly encourage him to continue. But right now there isnt even a vague sign that he will quit ! YAY !


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## dinamom (Dec 11, 2003)

This is my first post and I am proud to be EBF my almost 3-year old ds #1. I can't believe he is so big! I tandem nurse also and plan to let them both self-wean. I also convinced my husband to take some black & white photos of us tandem nursing that I scrapbooked with my thoughts and feelings of nursing a toddler, nursing in general and tandem nursing. It reallly renewed my desire to let the boys self-wean and I look at it when I need a morale boost. Now, I'll be able to come here for a morale boost too!

Thanks!


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Just thought I'd bump this thread again. DD1 nursed again a couple of days ago (first time in a couple of months), which reminded me of it (she's 4 years, 4 months old).


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

I am sorry this is somewhatoff-topic. I just know y'all are a wealth of experience and support from reading the posts (I posted originally nearly a year ago, I think!), and I can't seem to get useful help anywhere else: Any ideas re: a 3 y.o. child who still nurses 3-7 times each night (we cosleep)? I've ruled out too hot, too cold, too hungry, need to pee, etc. I think it's mental (he's highly sensitive but craves stimulation like the dickens, so it's hard for him to find equilibrium) but routine doesn't seem to help much either, I looked at all sorts of sleep books and they don't seeem to know either -- and I'm not going to let him cry, even if he's crying while I rock him (I scarcely see the difference). I'm not looking to nightwean but rather to reduce his nightwaking/sleep disturbance. He often nurses frequently during the day, depending on how bored/stimulated he is -- more stimulated=less nursing.

I kept waiting, thinking he'd resolve it on his own. He slept through the night from 2-4 months and then again a bit at 9 months, and again at 22 months, but other than that he sleeps mostly in 1-3 hour shifts. I have tried talking to him about it, but he doesn't really seem to know/understand. At what age can I talk to him about it? I'd planned on conceiving this summer, so I'm thinking that I should be more proactive in finding a solution for both of us before then, if we can. Thanks much.


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

I am in the same boat.My twins are 3.5. They each nurse that much if not more some nights. Right now I am not looking to fix it cuz they are working through a traumatic experience and I feel they really neeed me like a rock right now.BUT I will tell you what has worked for us in the past when everything was ruled out. Put more space between you and him at night. If my girls felt me, they wanted to nurse all the time. If I was still beside each of them, but we did not touch all night, then they would easily go for 6 hours without nursing.We had in our other house 2 queensize mattresses sidexside,It was wall to wal mattress so there was plenty of room and we all benefited from that!

HTH


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## biberin (Jun 25, 2003)

With my son, I just started limiting his night nursing to ten seconds. He was always sleepy enough that it didn't seem to faze him. He would just reconnect and then go back to sleep. After a few weeks of that, it was easy to just cuddle him back to sleep, and very soon after that he started sleeping almost through the night--he would wake once, and come over to my bed and go right back to sleep--if Daddy wasn't next to him. Now he sleeps through (knock on wood) no matter what.

So maybe cutting each session short might help reset his pattern.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

Thanks! He actually doesn't nurse for long, usually. And I'd rather that he nurse than drink water, say, because with nursing he won't have to pee but water will go straight through him, which would mean I'd have to wake to help him with the water and to help him pee. It's really not the nursing itself that is worrisome -- it's the frequency. I just feel like there is some deeper issue that I'm missing.

The spacing is an interesting question. There have been times when he wakes simply because I'm not close enough to him. On the other hand, there was a period when he slept cuddled with my husband, and then he seemed to sleep really well for at least one spell and most nights. However, he does not sleep well during his naps unless one of us is sleeping with him -- and even then, I tend to have to nurse him at least once to keep him asleep. During his naps, he often nurses for longer periods of time, but at night, he's so tired that he nurses and then disengages pretty quickly.

More ideas?


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

OY! You are explaining my dd`s to a T!Right down to the naps.Except mt dh is not very proactive with the sleeping hting.Its always been only me. Could it just be the age then?
I would say follow your gut though.If you do feel something else is going on,then I wouldnt do anythign to change his situation just yet.

Good luck!


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

I've made a grave error: My husband has not been involved whatsoever with anything having to do with sleep since our son was a few days old. We cosleep, and my husband is a log, and sometimes my son cuddles up with him on that side of the bed. Also, it's generally my husband's responsibility to fill up the humidifiers and my water bottles for night nursing. Other than that, he isn't involved and never has been. THAT will be different the next time, to be sure.

My gut says two things: I should continue to nurse him as he desires in order to keep him asleep at night. AND that something is disturbing his sleep that should be addressed. It's the latter with which I need help because I cannot seem to figure it out, and he hasn't been able to vocalize it yet. My son often is up more than the 7 times at night, by the way. I recall that after he brought in his 2-year molars, he went from waking at least every 45 min. to sleeping in two-hour shifts, and I was in heaven. But I guess I can't get enough: I'd like it if he woke only once or twice at night ... I felt so well-rested then, and so did he.


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## ldsapmom (Apr 8, 2002)

Hi, Mamas!

I just wanted to hijack to say way to go! It is hard to find support while nursing our older 'babies', so I wanted to bring ((((hugs)))) for everyone in that special place right now







.

Stacie


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

Oh Fraya, I just want to congratulate you for hanging in there this long!!!

Although my ds, now 3 1/2 is almost sleeping through on occasion, he used to wake up a lot when he was younger.

Have you tried offering him a snack before bedtime? Ds sleeps better when he's had something besides Mommy milk in his tummy. We usually offer it before his bath or before teeth brushing time. I try to include some protein but he really picks out whatever he wants. Also, we have the snack together and just sit at the table quietly. We eat dinner before 6 so a snack before bed really helps.

I also make sure he nurses on both sides before sleeping too. All this usually gets him to about 5 am these days but just a few months ago it would only get him to about 2:30 am.

I think lots of physical activity helps my ds and me sleep more soundly. Ds also seems to need to use up a LOT of energy after dinner and just before sleeping. I can't wait for the days to get a bit longer so we can go to the beach after dinner and GO GO GO!

DH used to sleep in another room but we moved into a tiny house now so we're all in one bed. I think we wake up more with dh in bed because there is less room, ds moves a lot, and I wake up to bring ds back to my side of the bed so dh can rest. Dh has a long, scary commute and gets up at 5 am.

But, dh has been sleeping in the livingroom this week because ds has a cold. And, the last couple nights we've all slept better in different beds... I don't want you to kick your dh out of bed but if everyone sleeps better it might be worth a try.

Keep trying new things AND your son will change too.

Now, make sure you two take naps ...


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

BUMP!


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

The bump reminds me to thank everyone for their respones and support regarding my son's sleep issues. Well, let's face it, they're mine, too!

He's moved to a schedule where he naps earlier and less, and then he goes to sleep peacefully and a bit earlier in the evening. So that's nice.

He's still waking plenty often at night, and nothing seems to make a difference with that in a consistent and profound way. I think time and communication skills will be our path to a full night's sleep.

Thanks again for the support!


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

One day at a time fraya


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

I don't really rehearse that line in my head, but I guess that is exactly the way that I'm living much of my life. Hmmm .... Thanks!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I've just been through a rough time of pain, immobility, and hospitalization due to a blood clot in my leg. During this time I've had to limit my daughter's nursing; putting her off, and telling her "just one side," and saying "I'll count to 10 and then we're done ok?" She did OK with it but I hated having to do it. The worst part was having to spend our nights apart when I was in the hospital. Now I'm home and getting better and I'm able to let her nurse more. I just wanted to check in with my support group!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Glad you're okay SBFmommy









Happy breastfeeding!


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

You've just been through one of my worst fears, and you did a marvelous job! Wow! It sounds like you gave a lot to your daughter during a very difficult time, and now you are fortunate to be back to a lifestyle more suited to your mothering. You're an inspiration. Thanks. And congratulations!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I am currently nursing my 3 year old daughter and my 7 month old son. I did natural weaning (child -led) with my first child and am doing it with these two as well. I still nurse "on demand" and my dd even nurses 1-2 (sometimes more) times during the night as well. She loves it. It's a very special important part of her life and I love having that sweet bond with her.


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

SBFmommy you are brave! And I am glad you are getting better at home. Please tell your dd that she is fabulous and flexible!





































We had night number 2 (in 31/2 years) of ds falling asleep in daddy's arms, my fault - I made dinner late and ds really needed a bath. Dh always does the bath and pj routine.

I was working on the pc and it was so quiet then a voice (dh) quietly yelled, "Help, Mommy!" There was ds asleep in dh's lap. We tucked him in and that was that. I have thrush right now so I was totally ok with this!


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

Ds hadn't napped for a few days but this morning he woke up so early - 6 am - I told him he would need a nap. He had fallen asleep while we were putting on his pjs last night.

He would not nap when it was time. He would not go in the bedroom. He didn't want me to touch him. No mommy milk! Well.....

An hour later he's asleep on the sofa. He awoke as I carried him to bed but went back to sleep.

Is ds going to wean overnight?! Seems like it and it's going too fast for me!









He does wake up at 2 am to nurse and also nurses to wake up.

Still...


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

I'm looking forward to reading more of this thread! It's great to see that other moms have tandem nursed through pregnancy and nursed until 5 or beyond.

I hadn't given much thought to breast or bottle when I was pg with my first until my husband, son of a La Leche League Leader, said, "You're going to nurse, right?". My original goal was 3-6 months, if I could last that long. Because of a history of abuse, I wasn't sure I could handle the sensations of nursing.

Five years, 3 months later, I have not only made it past 6 months, but nursed my oldest until he self-weaned on his fifth birthday. I am still nursing his little brother (3.5 yrs) and sister (21 months), which means I nursed through my second pregnancy and tandem nursed through my third.

My 3. 5 year old tells me he's going to wean when he's five, but he only nurses every couple of days at this point, so I have a feeling he may wean much sooner. It's up to him, though!

We joke that our youngest, Haley, will probably never wean. She's basically had the same nursing pattern since she was born...she nurses as often as she can! Every time I sit down, it must mean I'm ready for her to nurse. Every time I enter the house (even if I just went out to get the mail) it's time to nurse. She definitely loves to nurse...and I love nursing her!

Amanda


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Thanks for sharing your story Amanda. It's very inspiring and I hope many more will read it.

p.s. I think my daughter is like yours, she'll still be nursing when she goes off to college!:LOL (she's 3 & no signs of weaning!)


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Mom2threenurslings, may I just say "wow!". I'm happily nursing my 4 yo









Ajsmom, I was having your very same fears about weaning recently when ds started skipping his one and only nighttime nursing occasionally. Then we got sick, and he started nursing more. Some days he's such a "big boy" and other days he really needs to nurse. Its a little tricky physically when he goes through a nursing spurt then decides to take a day off - anyone ever get mastitis nursing a 4yo?!


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

One more kudos!


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## Cranberry (Mar 18, 2002)

My 4yo ds is still nursing. He stills sleeps in our bed with us, although it's starting to get tight!! My dh wakes up with a small arm or leg over his face some mornings! These years of nursing have been wonderful for my son AND me! One of the best decisions I ever made.


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

I mentioned to my primary care physician today, whose wife and I met at a nursing mommmy group so we're sort of friends, that my thrush was back again and he told me I needed to wean ds, 3 1/2, because it was gpoing to be bad for me in the long run. HUH?!?!?! What?!?!?!







:







:







:

I just said that it was up to ds to decide but told him ds was only nursing at bedtime, wake-up time and naptime. He never elaborated about why it would be bad for me and I didn't ask, I was too surprised.

When I told him dh was coming in to see him about ringing in his ears, the doctor said dh needed to stop scuba diving. I said,"That's like asking me to stop nursing!"









Ack!!!

I have had thrush off and on since ds was 8 months old. I always get rid of it completely until ds nips me or nurses too hard. I know ALL the ways to get rid of it, no need to point us at the posts, but I have become complacent because it doesn't bother us that much. He has it but isn't really bothered by it.

The doctor did give me a diflucan prescription and ds a prescription for the liquid nystatin which we haven't tried yet. Thinking about it to jumpstart us using probiotics and gse and vinegar and tea tree and and and.....Yes we have gentian violet but ds won't nurse when I have it on!

Sorry, rant over now. Good night!


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## lunchbox (May 14, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Chi-Chi Mama_
*Ana is just over 18mnths, so I'm not in the "EB older children" category, but I wanted to give you all










































and






























thank you for sharing your stories, you are an inspiration!*
Amen! My original goal was a year. Lucy will be 2 in a couple of weeks







and shows no signs of slowing down.

I've enjoyed reading all of the posts here!


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Hi - I have a question for those of you who have done the child-led weaning thing with an older child.

My oldest daughter is 4.5 years old. She's been (I thought) pretty much weaned since she was 4 (she just stopped asking to nurse at night, which was the only time she was nursing anyway).

Well, since then she has asked to nurse at 4 years, 2 months and 4 years, 4 months. I let her both times, and that was that.

Now she is 4 years, 6 months old and she has asked to nurse for the last 3 nights.

All of this is fine, but is this what others have experienced? A return to nursing after no (or very little) nursing for almost 6 months? It just seems strange to me.

Nothing else has really changed for her or anything. I'll let her nurse, if that's what she wants to do. I'm just wondering how long I can expect this on-again, off-again nursing thing to last!

Thanks for any insight you can give.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Hi Mommiska, I've learned that there's no way to predict exactly what path a child will take when child-led weaning. All children wean in their own way to meet their own individual needs. Good for you for trusting her!


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## Cranberry (Mar 18, 2002)

Honestly... I thought my 4yo ds would have weaned by now, but if he's not ready, then I'll wait until he is. I do try some distraction and postponement at times and sometimes that works, other times it doesn't. He nurses 3-4 times/day. I guess I am trying to gently wean, but ultimately he will decide when he'll stop.









(Edited for typos...)


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## michnica (Apr 13, 2004)

I am still nursing my daughter.
She will be 33 mths on the 19th


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

DS is 2.5 and still nursing.

I'm getting close to membership in this elite group







(well, closer)


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Wow, what a great thread

At 35 months DS is nursing as much as ever - every 2 hours during the day, for an hour at wake-up times and a few times at night. Thank goodness his first sleep leg has lengthened so sometimes I even get 6 hours uninterupted time. I figured I would not even think of weaning at least till all his teeth came in and that just happened a few months ago.
But now I cannot really imagine weaning at all, probably because I can't imagine him not wanting to.:LOL Sometimes I distract his attention when he asks for it; usually after an hour or so of nursing and when he asks again in 10 minutes.









So



































to all you nursing moms of older children and those tandem nursing. May grace show me the way to walk in your shoes .... cause it looks like I'm headed that way!









Ann


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

I'll chime in.

DD1 is still nursing at 37 months. DD2 has a cleft palate, so is not able to nurse (no suction). Because I am pumping for her exclusively, I have had to limit the time and frequency of DD1's nursing.

She has been very patient with this. But I think it has started her down the weaning path. She only nurses once or twice a day (and then only for a few minutes. I don't think she is getting any milk because she is only allowed to nurse right after I have pumped), and we have even gone whole days without a single nurse! Those days kind of make me catch my breath. I wonder if that was it, if that was the last time.

I will let her continue for as long as she wants. With the new baby, the health problems we've had (DD2 lost a lot of weight before the cleft was discovered at 5 weeks), the pumping and being put on a nursing schedule for the first time in her life, there has been a lot of stress. I'm not going to take away her system of security.

Don't know if I will be able to do the same thing for DD2. Theoretically, it will be possible to nurse her after her cleft is repaired (around 8-9 months of age), but I don't know if she'll be able to latch on effectively after all that time. The pumping is very difficult right now, but I am determined to make it to a year. Maybe after that it won't be as hard because I won't have to pump as much. Right now she is taking in about 30-35 ounces and I'm barely producing enough. We'll just have to wait and see.

Bec


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Thanks, Mother Sunshine - I think sometimes you just need to hear that you are doing the right thing. When I asked dd1 the other night how long she thought she would nurse, she said she would stop again when she was 5! So we'll see...

She really does want to nurse, though. She had this elaborate bedtime routine, which I've told her we don't do if she nurses - and she's been happily choosing to nurse instead of her routine each night, so...

Wow, bec - my hat is off to you! It sounds so difficult, but also that you and your two dds are doing so well.

From personal experience, I'll just say that only nursing once or twice a day doesn't mean they are about to wean - even not nursing in a couple of months apparently doesn't mean that they are about to wean! :LOL


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

Thanks Momiska! It really isn't easy. But it is definitely something I'm dedicated to.

One of the things cleft kids are prone to are ear infections. Emily (knock on wood) hasn't had one yet, and I wonder if the breast milk doesn't have something to do with it. We know she has fluid in her ears (not infected, and not interfering with her hearing), so it is something I am very concerned about. Most cleft palate kids are formula fed.

We had a pretty rocky start, but she is doing fabulously now!

I kind of expect Katie to stay in the pattern of nursing she is in for a while. But it is all up to her! I will say that nursing with her while Emily was newborn was definitely a plus. It really helped to ease her into big sisterhood without resentment. She really loves her little sister, and I don't think she feels displaced at all. I think this is largely because of the nursing.

Bec


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

I just love the dedication on this thread









I'm debating how to handle a 3-week visit from MIL and SIL. They live a long ways away, so they aren't privy to the fact that we're still nursing. Ds (4yo) mainly nurses at bedtime, so it may not come up, but I don't want ds to hear any negative comments if it does. On the other hand, if we make it hush hush, that could send the wrong message to ds too. Anyone been there done that?


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I don't look forward to the visit with MIL either. She doesn't know my 3 yo dd is nursing (& nurses all day!) and is against anything past the one year mark.







The weirdest part is that she's this old hippie woman who lives off the land and has taken on a Native American name and claims to be all about nature. Go figure, huh?


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

Hello Bec!
Both times I wrote a post to you my server died and deleted everything!!
But I just want to applaud your efforts. Your daughters are so fortunate to have you for their mom.

Callmemama- I haven't been in your shoes yet because ds is 3 1/2 but he will be nursing at 4, I can tell.

Here's an idea: When you disappear with ds to put him to bed, have dh make some innocent comment to his parents about how glad he is that your son still nurses to sleep so happily. So many parents struggle with bedtimes that those of us who don't may forget that. He might also say that with all the uncertainty about the health of our food supplies and water that it is a good thing the WHO recommends nursing until at least 4 years and that he's been so grateful for the support of his friends and family with this decision. Even if they don't agree, they may keep it to themselves.

This is the speil I use now when required. And, I just let folks know that we are life members of the LLL ...


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

For what it's worth, when I've been in situations where I anticipate that other people present disagree with nursing a child as old as mine (he's 3 now, but this probably has been the last 2 years where others might not agree ... even more if I were in MN).... I just do it non-chalantly, as discreetly as possible, and right there. It makes my husband uncomfortable (in the last 6 mos or so), but he doesn't say anything publicly. I've never had anybody say anything -- most either avoid looking at me, glancing past, or they look me straight in the eyes -- even my wretched MIL didn't say anything, but apparently breastfeeding is popular again in Sweden, where she is.

That seems to be true in general in life -- if I make up my mind that I'm not going to be bothered by what other people say, they somehow sense it (maybe they sense not to mess with me?) and then I don't have a problem. It's rather irritating sometimes, when I've worked so hard developing a 'comeback' and then I don't get to use it!


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## Mama2ABCD (Jun 14, 2003)

Wow Amanda, i'm in the same boat you were in 20 months ago. I am currently nursing my ds (turns 4 saturday), ds (31 mos), and brand new dd (4 weeks this saturday).

I successfully nightweaned my boys almost 1/2 way into my 3rd pregnancy when i realized i did not want to night nurse 3. My boys are still eager nursers, and my newborn is showing the same tendencies.

I recently asked my oldest when he thought he wouldn't need ninners anymore, and he said when he was older. I then asked him how old was older and he said 5. Of course, he thinks at 5 he can drive a car.

But, nursing 3 is going rather well and it's so nice to just nurse 1 at night!!!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by fraya_
*That seems to be true in general in life -- if I make up my mind that I'm not going to be bothered by what other people say, they somehow sense it (maybe they sense not to mess with me?) and then I don't have a problem.*
This is how I am too. It's works for and against me though. Judgemental people (including IL's) don't hassle me, but at the same time there are those who probably want to know and learn from my experience but are hesistant to approach me on the matter. That's why I love this forum so much, I can let down my 100-ton guard.










callmemama, I just want to wish you luck with your MIL. When dd was 5, during a visit to the IL's house, dd got stressed-out and said "Mama I just wanna nurse!" in front of MIL and Grandmother-in-law. I just about freaked because they gasped and, as I was anticipating the inevitable yelling-lecture from them, they instead quickly retreated together into the living room to vent with each other (the only words I could make out, while I was nursing dd in the bedroom, were "I can't believe it!" along with a bunch of gasping sounds).:LOL And we only stayed there 2 nights.... So I think it will be highly unlikely that you can hide it from your IL's through a 3-week visit. If your dh is anything like mine, don't expect any help from him. My dh is good at putting his tail between his legs when it comes to his Mom and Grandma. I would approach it with calm strength and make it clear (verbally and/or simply with your "aura") that there is no debate to be had. You know you're doing the right thing, stand by it.

And visit us a lot for venting and support.


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## fishy (Dec 8, 2001)

hi, i am nursing my 3.5 year old. (well, i think i am, lol)

he has been nursing only before sleep and upon waking up for a while (6 mnths)but he also goes to his dads house every other weekend and has no problem missing those days. this past week, he has been at his dads all week and i dont know if he will still want to nusre when he gets home. i hope he does (mosltly). he told me he would want to when we talked about it. we'll see


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

For the past 3 nights ds has not wanted to nurse to sleep. He doesn't want to go to sleep at all actually. Dh was falling asleep reading the Giant Panda book to him last night (dh was up at 4 am) so I took over and read until ds snuggled down next to dh and a minute later - zonked out!

With almost no napping these days we have suddenly gone to exclusively morning nursing. Ds likes to nurse somewhere between 2-5 am then when he first wakes up.

This morning I asked if he wanted square or triangle toast pieces. He said, "Hexagons, please!"


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

:







:


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Love the hexagons:LOL

Thanks for the advice on nursing with my IL's present! While MIL is pretty good at making her opinion known about her neighbors or world events, she has ALWAYS kept mum (to us) about our choices, so I'm thinking there's a good chance she won't confront us on this (SIL is another matter







). Dh wants to ignore it unless it comes up, so we'll see what happens. Its rare that we nurse anywhere but the bedroom, but with the stress of company for that long, who knows! I'm sure I'll be making an excuse to come to this thread if we have any "issues"!!! Thanks all









edited to add:

Mother-sunshine, thanks for sharing! Did your dd realize that the gma and ggma didn't approve of her nursing? That's my big concern - I don't want other people's hang-ups about nursing affecting my little guy.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Wanted to add that my MIL and FIL were both uncomfortable around me nursing from the get go. When DS first started to nibble on food their comments were "great, you'll be weaning now". After giving them an article which stated that the WHO recommended nursing for the first two years ......... they kept quiet. Then for this last year they have kept comments to themselves but do anything to distract my son when he asks for "baba". They are moving and perhaps it is good timing.

So what I am thinking is that if you are sensitive to your child getting the message from in-laws that it is not ok, perhaps coming right out in the beginning and saying this is what we do, I will not participate in any debates about it and I will not tolerate anything being said or suggested otherwise to my child about it.

I know I know. Easy to type. But really, how about practicing with friends first. It could be possible, couln't it?

Ann


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

On the IL issue, perhaps an upfront conversation on parenting in general [held privately between your dh and IL's] would serve all your needs. He wouldn't have to bring up nursing specifically if he's uncomfortable with that. He could use nvc/compassionate communication/popsitive conflict resolution to say something like this (or even briefer than this, so as not to make a big deal out of it, but getting the point across that he doesn't want them saying negative things about your parenting choices in front of your child): "We are so grateful that you've taken the time for a lengthy visit with us. We want it to be special and enjoyable for all of us. We know that we parent differently than you would/do, and we appreciate that we all are loving parents, even as we do things differently. I feel like it is only fair for me to tell you this: It is really important to me that you support our parenting in front of [your child's name]. If you feel frustrated about our parenting choices, I'm okay with that, and I would be happy to talk to you about it privately. Please respect my feelings that you not do so in front of [your child's name]."

He needs to impress upon them, I'd think, the gravity of his feelings about the matter. For instance, my husband disregarded similar requests from me regarding nursing until I explained to him that I felt so strongly about it that if he said anything in front of our son about nursing that impacted my nursing relationship with our son, I would never be able to forgive (or forget) him (it). Once my husband knew the depth of my feelings on the matter, he respected them. Now, he sometimes marvels at our son's health, how easily he goes to sleep, etc. etc. etc. ... and he sometimes wishes he'd just go to sleep without nursing or not nurse in public etc. etc. etc. Either way, he no longer makes negative comments in front of my son, and he rarely ever comments on him being too old to nurse anymore.

You could check www.cnvc.org for more information and ideas. Also, Inbal Kashtan wrote a Mothering article on compassionate communication in 2002 (JanFeb?) that you could look up as a reference if you need some ideas.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by callmemama_
*Mother-sunshine, thanks for sharing! Did your dd realize that the gma and ggma didn't approve of her nursing? That's my big concern - I don't want other people's hang-ups about nursing affecting my little guy.*
She was too busy nursing to notice. She was so upset at them, they can be so nasty with her (especially when they're together), that even if she did hear them I don't think she would have cared.

I too have had the fear of Dd being negatively affected by ignorance, so we have openly talked about it. We basically just discussed that not everyone has been lucky enough to nurse as long as they wanted to so, unfortunately, some people don't understand it for what it is. She knows it's nothing to be ashamed of, but rather something to be proud of. She's strong so I think if anyone did express a negative opinion, she wouldn't be phased by it.

I think that the best thing you can do is to talk about it with your ds as often as you both want to. Talk about how it's natural to want to nurse at this age. That even though many children have to wean early, and may not completely understand why other children get to wean on their own, there are children just like themselves who get to child-led wean too. Maybe even talk about the benefits if you want....the increased immunity, the greater chance of higher intelligence, etc. Talking about it should help give him the strength he needs to withstand any pressure from others. Even if a word isn't spoken about it, he/she will learn from the tremendous amount of trust and love that it takes to allow a child to wean on their own time. And that you don't have to be a follower in society just because everyone else ignorantly says so. That in itself should give them the strength to withstand any amount of criticism, whether it be about nursing now or about anything else in the future.


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## Frazzled Mama (Nov 12, 2003)

Well I might as well jump in here too. I'm still nursing my almost 2 year old and due with #2 in a few weeks. I can honestly say that when he self weans I will be quite sad. Some days I'm on the fence about EN when faced with excruciating nipple pain and excessive night nursing but then I look at my sons sweet face and see that its all worth it!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

That's wonderful Frazzle.







I think you'll find your older one wakes up to nurse more than the newborn!:LOL And I promise that nipple pain will be gone soon after delivery. I found it a little weird that I had to use Lansinoh when my dd was 2 1/2 but such is dry pregnant nursing huh?







:


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

Mother Sunshine: Your approach of empowering your child is inspired! I think it's splendid for life in general: Give 'em confidence and coping skills so that when we aren't around (or, even when we are but something happens), they're ready. Thank you! My son isn't quite able to understand, but we do talk about that (that not everybody gets to nurse or for as long as he is) when it comes up.


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## FireCrotch (Jan 31, 2004)

Hi!

I am nursing my 27 month old daughter along with her 5 day old baby brother.

I was nervous about tandem nursing, but I LOVE it.

My daughter rocks in helping me with my engorgement. And my newborn gets tons of hindmilk to fatten him up.

I love breastfeeding and tandem is just making it that much better.

Now that my milk if fully back in (boy, is it!), it is a snap to put my dd to bed. She nurses for 10-15 minutes, gets a belly full of warm milk and zonks out. I get relief of a softened breast and my son gets lots of yummy hindmilk.

It's all good.


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## mntmama (Nov 28, 2001)

I am still bf my first born, now nearly 41/2 yrs old. I never planned this when she was born, but grew into the role, v. passionately. When I was got pg with my second, when dd was nearly 2, I thought for sure that the pregnancy would wean her naturally...but she never missed a beat, even when my milk went bye-bye! It was rough initially when my second dd was born, because I was not comfortable with tandem nursing and her opportunities were constantly compromised. Now, 20 months later she will still nurse (and sometimes has a somewhat embarrassing tendency to want to kiss and pat my breasts tenderly) though I am at that point when I never know when it will be the last time! because it comes infrequently and in bursts, and she is still taking a back seat to her little sister who is ever avid at 20mos, really sustaining herself on bf since she is not taking to solid food readily. I try amidst all the demands of parenting and bf two tots to remember to respect my oldest's needs and emotions, I am ever remindful to myself that she will maybe remember these bf memories when I am inclined to say NO more often than not, because there are never enough really optimal opportunities for her to bf esp when her sister is around.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I keep thinking about that movie "The Last Emperor" in which the seven or eight or nine (????) year old last emperor of China is abruptly weaned from his wet nurse. When I saw it (2-3 years ago) I was shocked, but now it makes more sense to me why he was nursing to such an advanced age. (But I thought it was sad when they took his wet nurse away, even when I saw it the first time).


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## mama2myangelWill (Mar 17, 2003)

I too am tandem nursing and finding it very difficult some days. My 33mo old ds had basically weaned himself a few months into my pregnancy and then began again towards the end. He now wants to nurse every time the baby does (7wks) and in the morn and at night before sleep. I thought that I wouldn't have any trouble w/my feelings regarding this, but I'm really struggling right now. Sometimes I really want to just nurse the baby and then I feel bad b/c he IS my 1st baby. I know that so much of it is him adjusting and finding his place in my heart right now.....it really is hard some days though to not resent him wanting to nurse every time I sit down







I hope my feelings will resolve themself as I realize he obviously needs this and I don't ever want him to feel rejected! MAN is it tough being a mama


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## mntmama (Nov 28, 2001)

I also felt a lot of guilt because I resented my older dd's time on the breast. My little one was nursing all the time, my midwife said she had a strong instinct, sounds lovely, but oh, watch out.
I definitely was feeling "touched-out" and needing some space.
Even my dh was dubbed "the Prince of whatever's left" because it was so complete!
It was complicated by the fact that is was v.uncomfortable when my older dd nursed! I think because she never stopped even when I had no milk through pg, that she had started nursing v.hard, pulling and pushing trying all kinds of ways to "play" when nursing? When I was no longer pg and nursing a little one, I couldn't help but notice the difference, it was so uncomfortable in comparison. I even thought at times that she had "forgotten" exactly how to nurse. A woman from Laleche told me that the older toddler's mouths do change and that you do have to work through those changes and help them make it okay for you. Has anyone else heard that?
All I can say is that it was a struggle with wanting "not" to wean her and getting past my own feelings. It took me a long time, almost 6 or even 8mos before I felt better and by then my older dd, then just over 3, was only asking every day or so, not even on a regular daily basis. She had gotten used to her baby sister's demand, and really didn't ask unless she saw the
opportunity, or really needed it. Now its been much better, but I do still wish I could've handled it better right off.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Mama2MyAngel

It is hard in the beginning sometimes. They do want to nurse so much. I just tried to remind myself that the more work I put in at the beginning, the easier it will be later. So I just let her nurse whenever she needed and it started decreasing after a couple months. By 2 1/2 or 3 months it wasn't a problem anymore. She still enjoyed nursing a lot but didn't feel the need to nurse every time she saw the baby doing it. Good luck.


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## mama2myangelWill (Mar 17, 2003)

Thanks so much for the encouragement! It doesn't help that it's tough to adjust to a 2nd babe anyways....I know we'll get through it & am so thankful for a group like this. We ROCK!!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i just found this thread, since i rarely find the time to roam. i'm usually in nov/dec 2002 tots. i'm nursing clay and ruby, who are 3y3mo and 17 mo respectively. they are both at about 90 percent human milk, on a monthly average.

i'm wondering about something.....i haven't read back the thread and y'all have probably talked about it......so point it out if you have.....how crucial is cosleeping to extended breastfeeding? all my personal acquaintances that nursed beyond age 2 practiced family bed.

looking forward to meeting y'all.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

ps, i'm not asking for me. in another thread the mammas are talking about nightweaning and it is tearing me up because i think a few of them really want to nurse as long as possible and i think nightweaning will shorten the nursing career.

i looked at the last few pages and and saw something about nightwaking. my kids wake and nurse when they need to pee, possibly more than their need to eat.


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Not necessary at all, from my experience.

I only reactive co-slept with my first (am co-sleeping currently with my 7 month old), and they are both still nursing! (at 4.5 years and 3 years).

Both of them I also had to nightwean VERY early (6.5 months with DD1 and around a year with DD2), as I was going back to work, and I do overnight shifts (which means I work less during the day - that's the trade off that works for us).

By nightwean, I mean that I nursed them at 11 pm and didnt' nurse again until 6 am - that's what I felt I could ask my dh to do when I wasn't there (didnt' feel it was fair to nurse them all night, then leave him with screaming, crying wrecks on the nights I was working, you know?). They both slowly stretched themselves out from those nursings - I think I stopped waking them to nurse at 11 pm around a year with the first, a bit older with the second.

Not sure when they stopped waking early to nurse - I always loved (and encouraged) those nursings, as I'd get into bed with them and we'd snuggle for a few hours.









So anyway - you can definitely EBF without co-sleeping, or even night nursing.


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Just wanted to add - I would never encourage nightweaning that young - especially not at 6.5 months! Just wanted to say that it doesn't necessarily spell the end of the breast-feeding relationship.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

My dd is proof that nightweaning doesn't necessarily lead to an earlier weaning. I nightweaned her around the time when we started co-sleeping, around 1yr. I couldn't be the mother I wanted to be if I was waking up all night, so I felt like I needed to nightwean her. But that was at the same time when I finally stopped listening to the "what to expect" books and just let her sleep with us. It was a good trade-off.

So you can definitely night-wean without damaging the nursing relationship.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Both of my children share my bed with me. I'm sure that, in general, bedsharing/co-sleeping does increase the liklihood of sustained breastfeeding.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

well that's great to hear. i certainly meant no insinuation of damage. it just seems that if anything, my kids do their nursing at night.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Wrong choice of words. :LOL

I guess it would depend on the mother and child. If a child is nursing mainly at night and the mother WOH then it would inevitably shorten the nursing relationship. But if the mother was SAH then I would think the child would fulfill his/her need during the day with increased nursing.


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## spiritfreedom (Jun 1, 2003)

Hi everyone. I am nursing my almost 16 month old son Cort...his 6 year old sister self weaned at 17 months.

Cort will not be weaning anytime soon. He love love LOVES to nurse. We came up with our own sign for nursing....partly so he doesn't claw at me, and partly so he doesn't say something in public like "I want my boobs!!!"

I am planning to continue until it makes sense to stop. I'm puting no limitations on it at this point.


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## mntmama (Nov 28, 2001)

We practice the family bed and I believe it does have an influence towards extending bf. However, my older dd did stop her nursing at night at about 22 mos, and still nurses now at 41/2 and is still in the family bed, so its hard to say exactly how much. My younger dd at 20mos nurses every 2hrs at night, for v.brief periods and maybe she wouldn't if I weren't there? also hard to say, since I have never spent the night away from her.


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

Well, if my son wakes up in our bed and I am not there, he comes and gets me to nurse. He's 3 1/2 and we go back and get in bed to nurse.

His new thing is wanting to fall asleep at night with a story. He's figured out that nursing means sleeping and sometimes he isn't ready for that.

But when he wakes from a nap he doesn't want to nurse. He just comes out and eases into his next activity.

We will be getting him a bed in the next few months but it doesn't matter when he starts sleeping in it. He decides.


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

I gently nightweaned my dd at 2 1/2 years and she nursed for 5.9 years. So nightweaning should not spell the end of nursing.

I just got back from vacation and I love the new look of the boards!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Hi everyone









I just wanted to get the word out, in case any of you don't know, that there is a poll regarding adding a new forum/subforum for Child-led Weaning. If you'd like to vote, follow this link...

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...8&page=1&pp=20


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

good idea mother sunshine!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Yes, it's very good timing. I did not enjoy reading the new "how old is too old" thread. It's hard to hear things like that when you feel like you're in a safe, alternative enviornment. So, at least we still have a safe thread.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Hi Mamas!

Just figured I should join in here as I am feeling less than enthusiatic about nursing my 3 yo lately. I KNOW child-led weaning is absolutely necessary for him, but some days it is so hard. I should mention that I am tandem nursing him and my 8 mo ds. We are just getting over a nasty little virus, and I know that I am just feeling burnt out as I haven't even had the time to recover from MY illness because I have been caring for them. I just need a teeny tiny bit of down time.......

I need some mama support!! I need to be reminded of how special and important this is to my ds. I need to have that warm smilely feeling when he tells me that he is going to nurse till he's 10, and how sorry he feels for his friends and relatives who don't nurse anymore. I guess I just need to be reminded of all the things I already know, but am to tired to think of


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

I think you just did remind yourself! Please ask your 3 year old for a standing ovation and a hug from me and my 3 year old and then get some rest!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ajsmom*
I think you just did remind yourself! Please ask your 3 year old for a standing ovation and a hug from me and my 3 year old and then get some rest!

ITA!
















akirasmama


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

One more cheer:

I think it is awesome that you're nursing both of your kids. What a gift and what a blessing!

I can imagine that you're a little wiped out after having to care for so many needs (and that probably included a lot of nursing) of others and foresake your own at a time when you also had an increased level of needs (like for rest!).

At times like these, I pray a lot for perspective. Most of the time, I remind myself of how quicklly even these three years have flown by and how it won't be long before I am reminiscing about the days when my son curled up in my lap to nurse and snuggle. It brings me such peace to recollect even now!

I hope that you are able to get some of your needs met. I try to meet my son's needs first, because after his needs are met, he's usually able to meet my needs. I hope that you are getting a little down time; mamas have needs, too! Once they're met, I bet you'll be enjoying your cheer again!

And I'll sign off with one more word of admiration for what you've done. I am on this thread because I need inspiration in my life -- personally, as a mother, as a wife. I've had a difficult time finding mothers who inspire me and support me. I feel awe and hope when I read that you are tandem nursing a child my son's age AND an 8 mo. old. I feel grateful and empathic when I read that you are exhausted after giving so much of yourself when you felt that you didn't have that much to give. I feel appreciative of the inspiration and support that I get from reading your post, from knowing your generosity in mothering.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Wow, thanks everyone. I just needed a few words of encouragement. I am still sick, now I have a sinus infection. At least my boys are getting better! I never question the nursing, I KNOW that is what's right for them. My 3 yo is VERY intense, and nursing just provides him with so much peace. How could I deny him of that?

It just gets hard sometimes because he just needs to be with me 24/7, plus ds2 just loves his mama sooo much too. I do get burnt out. Dh is great though, he has be forcing me to take nice hot baths ALONE (such a treat :LOL) and bringing me chocolate and ice cream







It is so nice of him to give me extra attention so that I can give extra to the lil ones.

I also appreciate your kind words







That is why I am glad I found this thread!! IRL most people are fairly supportive (I think anyway, they wouldn't dare tell me if they thought otherwise :LOL) but they always seem to have the thought "well she COULD wean him" YK? It is nice to discuss the hard days without that thought lingering in someone's mind


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

ditto what fraya said "I feel awe and hope when I read that you are tandem nursing a child my son's age AND an 8 mo. old." and everything else she said too.

When I feel the need for encouragement and sustenance, I will remember I am not alone.









Ann


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Lots of hugs and ~*~get well soon~*~ vibes coming your way, akirasmama!

Nursing while sick isn't easy, especially keeping yourself hydrated. Make sure you get lots of fluids...I've found that my irritation levels sometimes go up when I'm getting dehydrated!

It's great to hear you staying positive about your situation...and what a thoughtful husband you have!!! Hot baths, chocolate and ice cream...three of my favorite things!







I think I'll need to have your dh talk to mine the next time I get sick!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

here's a late thanks for the answers on nightweaning. sometimes my kids only nurse at night especially with developmental spurts so the idea of nightweaning is not my area of expertise.
and i don't know about the rest of y'all (i'm tandem nursing a 3 and 17mo) but since i have one weaned child, i can say that nursing gives my brain a break and makes parenting much easier. starting from when i couldn't nurse my eldest i have had to learn thousands of tricks concerning appropriate comfort and calming, diet, getting enough physical time with my child, etc etc. even with the wrestling and twiddling (and sometimes reading books, playing games and talking and kicking while nursing....) it is a much simpler relationship and such a gift to be able to communicate love in such an encompassing way.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Bump!


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## luckylady (Jul 9, 2003)

thanks for bumping SBF. Didn't see the thread as I explore the difference between CLW and gentle weaning...lots of good words in here.


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## Peace4all (Jan 16, 2002)

Hi all. My ds is a few days away from being six. He is still nursing. I thought that I would let him wean when he is ready, and that is still what I want. I believe at his age and beyond, that nursing is important to some children and very natural. When he turned 5, I was completely supportive and had no problem with my son still nursing. Somewhere though that has changed. I want him to nurse until he is done, but now when he nurses, I can only take alittle of it. I don't know if its a lack of mothering hormones due to less milk (prolactin?), or if he is nursing differently, but where I didn't even physically notice his nursing before, now it can be really uncomfortable.
At night when he nurses, I let him nurse for a few minutes and then I roll him on his side and snuggle him. At first he did not like this, but now seems fine with it. This makes me sad at times, because I don't want to make him wean before his time, but I can't seem to help myself. It really is uncomfortable and can just drive me crazy. During the day he doesn't ask to nurse much, but when he rarely does ask, sometimes I let him, and sometimes I put him off now. Anyway, because for me I believe that clw is the way to go, this is really causing me conflict, and concern for the effect it will have on ds.
I don't believe this has played a part in my behavior, but I am also quite aware of his age and how our society feels. I so wish we lived in a society that supported the natural needs of our children.
I am actually unfamiliar with gentle weaning and its effects on the child. Has anyone else here, who clw experienced this?
I'm going to go back and read the posts in this thread to see what I can find, as I haven't done that in awhile.
Thanks in advance for your support and any words of wisdom that you might have.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

is he nursing less often than he did a year ago? i know that for me, frequency is key to feeling good. and is there any chance you are pregnant?


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## Peace4all (Jan 16, 2002)

No, I am not pregnant, and yes, he does nurse less then he did a year ago. He nurses less because it just seems to be the natural order for him that as time passes he does nurse less, but I'm sure my discouraging it at times has also had an effect.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

I think CLW and postponing nursing sessions are compatible. I don't nurse ds every time he asks (he's 4.5 yo).


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Peace4all, This happens to me occasionally (usually before my period) but it never lasts more than a few days. I too shorten her nursing time until it passes. If nursing was once comfortable for you then it shouldn't suddenly become permanently uncomfortable for no reason.

If it is continuous and painful for you then maybe he is latching differently? Maybe try working on a new latch together? Now that I think of it, a few times dd has changed her latch....as soon as she would latch on I literally jumped in the air because it felt so weird and funky.... so we needed to re-work it and then everything was fine.

Has he lost any teeth (or is about to lose teeth)? If so, maybe his latch is trying to adjust to the change. I have noticed a change in dd's latch especially when she lost her front baby teeth (tops and bottoms) and, again, we needed to re-work the latch.

Another thought is if you aren't making any milk, maybe he is suckling harder to try to get milk....Have you asked him if he is getting any milk?

And my last thought is that if it isn't anything physical (even a change in hormones), then maybe it is phychological....perhaps a possible inner struggle is affecting your comfort level physically too (our mind has a powerful effect on our body)? If you really want to continue CLW then maybe just getting some support and encouragement from us will help change your inner struggle?

The breastfeeding relationship is a two-way thing, you need to decide together what is best for the both of you and your relationship.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

Peace4All: I am inspired by your dedication to your son's welfare. The gift you give him in nursing him, if even once each day, is beautiful like a spring flower. It gives me a sense of hope. Breastfeeding involves the devotion of a substantial amount of energy -- emotional, physical, and psychological in our society. It is no wonder that it is challenging for you at times.

This is a very difficult issue for me in some respects. I never deny my son's desire to nurse at night (he's 3 y.o.), but that's pretty much because it's the easiest way to keep him asleep.

During the day, though, I do delay or shorten his nursing at times. He will nurse for an hour or two (especially while napping), and he tends to pull on my nipple and dig his teeth in a fair amount. Discussing 'posture' with him hasn't helped so far. He is willing to switch sides, though, which hasn't always been the case. When he's gotten all the milk he wants, but he's still latched on, nursing becomes especially uncomfortable for me (more digging and pulling, a dryer suck/nipple, a less robust nipple/breast, no prolactin or oxytocin to calm me, right?). When I ovulate, my nipples are tender, and my son tends to like to nurse for extended periods upon waking (just when I really really need to pee!). He also gets overwhelmed at transitions sometimes and will use nursing to help him collect himself and re-connect, and there are times (like when we need to get to an appointment) when I try to get him to nurse for just a "couple minutes" even then. I'll tell him ahead of time, and then I'll remind him during. Interestingly, I'll usually say, "Okay, it's been a couple minutes, are you ready?" Sometimes he says no, and I just keep asking him. If I weren't asking him, he'd probably nurse until he had an idea for something better to do, but if I remind him that there's something more interesting to do, he'll disengage sooner.

Although I try to relax and remain in the moment with him, knowing it is more important in the long term than anything else I have to do ... I still do get antsy sometimes, so I often nurse him while sitting at the computer these days, which distracts me and helps me handle the grating on my nipple.

Still, I am committed to letting him nurse until he is ready to wean himself. It is true, as they say, that weaning begins when they begin eating solids. For us, it will end when my son is ready. I only pray that I'm ready, too!

[Edited to add that one of the difficulties in mothering, for me, has been trying to figure out just how many of my needs and wants I can delay or disregard in favor of my son. For me, reaching a compromise (like nursing for a couple minutes or while reading/checking email) is fine. But I agree that you need to get your needs met, too, in order to be available to him as a mother (including as a nursing mother). Giving yourself permission to do that can be difficult and confusing, but if you can find a place of harmony in there, that will benefit both of you.]

Thank you, Peace4All, for sharing with us and for giving so much to your son.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Thanks for your post as a reminder of the practice.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Ok, I am really







and







and just completely









I can't believe how unsupportive so many people are of breastfeeding an older child!







I've just been reading way too many hurtful and ignorant things lately and I am just in disbelief!







It's bad enough that some people would feel this way (and in the EB forum no less







) but why on earth can't they keep their hurtful thoughts to themselves? What is the point of stating what you feel is "wrong" with nursing a child past 2 or 4? I am getting to the point where I don't even want to come to this forum anymore. We're here to support eachother. What is going on here?


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
What is the point of stating what you feel is "wrong" with nursing a child past 2 or 4? I am getting to the point where I don't even want to come to this forum anymore. We're here to support eachother. What is going on here?









MamaAllNatural: I have not seen those threads, because I don't browse anymore. But I just wanted to tell you that I am sorry that you experienced contact with those who are unsupportive in an arena where you anticipated receiving only support.

I had a similar experience in another forum, where I posted specifically requesting support and instead received harrassment. I actually no longer browse these forums, because I had the same feeling that you did: If I cannot come to Mothering for support, where can I count on it? And my life is spent swimming upstream enough; I don't need to feel like even "my people" aren't supporting me. So I am subscribed to this thread, and occasionally visit the Sewing and Crafts thread. As a result, I haven't read the posts or threads that you mention, nor will I. When I can choose nutritious connection over ... anything else ... I do.

*I am glad, most of all, that this thread is a safehaven for me and for other mothers breastfeeding older children. My deepest thanks to everyone here for that.*


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

MamaAllNatural, I COMPLETELY am feeling the frustration too. I am PMSing







so maybe I am over-reacting (I really hope so) but there are one or two here in EB who seem to be trying to be a thorn on purpose. One of those people (I won't name names) started a thread over in TAO and I can just feel her gloating amongst the many posts saying that 2-3 is their bf "limit". On the one hand I am telling myself "why bother responding" but on the other hand MDC is a rare gem and I want to protect it from people like them. *BIG SIGH* It just goes back to one of the popular threads in TAO, "what is happening to MDC?" I won't back down and let them bully us out.









Fraya, I'm so glad that you find comfort here with us. If you are Child-led-weaning please join us over in the CLW thread too, if you haven't already, especially since this thread seems to fade in and out.
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...d.php?t=140558








T
Just out of curiosity, are there any mamas here, who are nursing a child past 4, who are *not* child-led-weaning? I guess I'm asking because I don't want to leave anyone out (if we do get a CLW forum).


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

I wanted to respond to the part about nursing a child past 4 who was not practising CLW. I am not nursing them anymore, but I nusred my ds til4 and my dd til a month before her 5th birthday, and I guess what we do isn't considered clw, but gentle weaning? My dd and I settled on a few different weaning dates, but turned out she wasn't ready...we talked about weaning a lot, and while I was ready 100% I could tell there was something bothering her. Finally one night she started crying and telling me that she didn't want to grow up, and basically that she was afraid I wouldn't have time for her, we talked a long time that night, and nursed to sleep...and she never asked to nurse again.
While *I* feel that I allowed her to choose her time, I don't know much about CLW and maybe even bringing up weaning or encouraging it through talking is not considered CLW. I don't know...

With my ds we did set a date, and he had one hard day...I wish I hadn't enforced it, but I was at a loss what to do, I was pregnant with number three(which I ended up losing anyway...so felt even worse), and super tired and sore, and didn't have much support(still don't for nursing over 4), but I have become a stronger mama since then.









anyway just thought i'd post my experience...and i guess question about clw.
if there any threads about what exactly clw is, i would love to be pointed to them.
thanks so much for this thread!!







Debi


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

mamaallnatural i've got to agree with fraya about the browsing. i used to look around two years ago and then at some point it got weird so i quit looking around, unless i've really got the energy. which has been recently it seems. email and forum can get to me in a different way than personal contact. it can affect me on a cellular level since i'm reading it and i can hear the phrases in my mind later. sometimes i have to take a break from the input, even if it is a day. it is not worth your energy if the icky people get you down.

though it is great that you are out there, and i applaud you for it since i do not have as much involvement. part of the reason i started browsing occasionally is to give support because i want to give back. i feel the main sustenance of modern breastfeeding is because of support. i find the way i can deal with people i don't agree with and have problems with and still stay a healthy mamma....is to forgive them and expect they are doing their best. and yes, this sometimes means thinking i am happier or even superior to them, depending on the interaction. some people can't help that they suck.







.....that or use your energy being mad to start something empowering.

what's interesting is that i can have a dialogue irl with someone with opposing parenting styles, and still feel friendly and respectful, and get irritated with the merest infraction of my ideals online. but online is what has spread the concept of breastfeeding, ap parenting, and alternate birth so easily. and three years ago i would have told you, no way, i cannot tandem nurse and now i've got both little ones still almost exclusively nursing a hundred times a day.

i'm adding another thought: i always wanted to nurse past four (since i remember from four and up) because i think the next generation will be different with those that remember nursing. i met a lady before i had kids that remembered nursing fondly and i thought it was such a wonderful, remarkable thing.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Thanks for your words everyone. I feel better just being able to come to a safe place and express my frustration. It's all out of my system (for now







).









Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
now i've got both little ones still almost exclusively nursing a hundred times a day.

Hey, that sounds like us to a T !


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

yeah, i dunno how many times i can creatively answer that when i hear about an infant nursing 10 times for a 24 hour period is that normal, etc etc. there's my complaint!


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
yeah, i dunno how many times i can creatively answer that when i hear about an infant nursing 10 times for a 24 hour period is that normal, etc etc. there's my complaint!

Thanks for the laugh, you guys. Always helps to laugh!


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

I'm a little frustrated on that other thread too. I think I'm done posting on it








:


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Looks like Cynthia isn't going to allow "support only" threads any more.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=155938


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I saw that...very dissapointing.







Does this mean we can join in on any tribal thread (religious/vegetarian/etc.) and disagree with their views? This doesn't make sense to me. Sorry OT.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I will take the wording "support" out of these threads. Hopefully they will not still remove them. I just don't understand why they would want to take away something so valuable. I think they're spinning out of control a bit with this. It seems to have started with the FYT forum then once a promise was made they have to apply it to all forums. Sad.

Cindy (firemom), I hear you. Assuming we're talking about the same thread, it's a shame that someone has to take the topic of breastfeeding into a non-breastfeeding-specific forum to feel good about herself.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

I will take the wording "support" out of these threads. Hopefully they will not still remove them. I just don't understand why they would want to take away something so valuable. I think they're spinning out of control a bit with this. It seems to have started with the FYT forum then once a promise was made they have to apply it to all forums. Sad.
ITA. Please post your comments here (with mine







):
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=155938


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

I will really miss these threads that support child-led weaning and nursing an older child. Let's don't give up on each other though! Do you think it would be possilbe to reply to any/all naysayers with "I disagree", then move on to our normal conversation? That way we don't get the debates going, but it will still be disheartening to read the negativity in "our" thread


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

We don't even have to argue with or acknowledge statements that we don't agree with. Why bring more attention to ideas that go against the main sentiment of the thread??

OTOH, (when I don't ignore) my response to ideas that I don't fully agree with is to make a nonjudgemental, nonaccusational statement about how I would handle the topic.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
ITA. Please post your comments here (with mine







):
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=155938


















----------------------

I'll be shocked if these threads are closed. I see nothing wrong with asking for support only, it's asking for others to keep any negative thoughts to themselves, and has worked pretty well thus far IMHO.. But I took out the wording and hopefully all will be well. I remember the reason why we had to start a "support only" thread in the first place because someone turned the "How Old is Too Old" thread all ugly and made people leave.

I agree callmemama, just say "I disagree" and move on.....to keep the thread from turning negative but to also let the poster know what's up. I personally don't think that I can remain silent and let someone trample on us like that, especially if the negative post is to remain there without being deleted. But if we refuse to answer why we disagree, just that we disagree, then maybe it'll prevent an argument. Then again in the past it felt good to at least get my philosophy and reasoning out in the open, when IRL I would probably say a little less. One person, my hearts light (might have been another thread), did PM me after the "interrogation":LOL with a thank you. So maybe "holding our ground" and defending ourselves does pay off. But OTOH why the need to always defend ourselves in this forum.
I'm battling with myself on this issue.







:

*Just a quick note for everyone...if this thread does suddenly close, please look for a new updated thread in the forum so we can all keep up our support and sisterhood we have going.*


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## BreastisBest78 (Feb 21, 2004)

I'm just curious, are these older children (5 and 6 years old) are they in school? If so, how does that work? Do the teachers know? I saw something on Dr. Phil where he was lashing out at a woman for EB an 8 year old. When does it cross the line into being inappropriate? Just askin







:


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Each family is different. What does school have to do with it? I doubt that the children who sleep with mom and dad announce it to their class, so why would they talk about nursing? Pretty sad really.

I don't believe nursing a school aged child is "innappropriate". It seems each mom has her own line that should be respected.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Breastfeeding doesn't become inappropriate at any age, regardless of whether the child is in school or not.

(See mods? This is what happens when we remove the words "support only please")


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbf*
(See mods? This is what happens when we remove the words "support only please")









This is exactly what I was going to say.

sbf, I hate to put you on the spot here but, as I'm a computer idiot I just don't have the knowledge, would you be willing to start a yahoo group for mothers who are nursing older children and/or doing CLW?







If this is the way the boards are changing I just don't see how we could feel supported enough here.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

No problem. Here you go.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clw_older_nurslings/

I set it up so that people can only join with my approval. When you submit your request to join, just say, "My MDC username is ______" and I will approve you.


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## spryte (Jan 27, 2002)

I personally think that these recent actions to close many of the fyt groups and to disallow support only threads will actually cause more strife that is even currently occuring. It is giving the people who choose to constantly debate and argue every point more leeway and even a thumbs up. Almost a "go ahead and bash anything you want- we actually encourage you to" We will upset everyone who came to these boards for support and tell them no more support just to make sure everyone can debate everything all the time.

Thank you for opening a yahoo group. This was the last thread I participated in on Mothering.com due to all of the negativity I began to feel from other areas and it makes me sad that there is likely more negativity to come.

Breastisbest- each child is different. Some children go to school some are not old enough yet. Since each mother is different I don't think anyone can say for everyone if nursing is discussed with teachers.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbf*
I set it up so that people can only join with my approval.

Perfect!







Thank you!


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## BreastisBest78 (Feb 21, 2004)

I didn't mean to offend you guys. I was just asking the common questions that I hear in regards to EB. I'm sorry. I'll go away now.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Wait - Brestisbest - don't go! I think we're all a bit edgy here, but I have no problem with your question.

Ladies, I don't think she attacked us - I think she asked with true sincerity, and we have been giving her pretty good responses (except for the stuff about the kind of stuff we're getting now that we are not "support only" anymore...)

I'm worried just as much as you all are about maintaining a place where I can go to be with like-minded mamas. But I don't want to alienate a mama who is genuinely interested in what we are talking about and looking for feedback or answers. Maybe we could just try to enlighten rather than get defensive?

I signed up to join the yahoo group, but I hope that I can still get the bulk of my online mothering fellowship here at MDC.


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## BreastisBest78 (Feb 21, 2004)

Thanks! That's very kind. I hope I didn't offend anyone. I'm sorry if I did.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Breastisbest, it's not you, it's the changes that the administration is making that allow no "support" threads. This used to be "support only" yesterday. Obviously we're not happy about the changes. Don't take it personally.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

well i do think that all of mdc is at heart about support, whether is states it or not. i might just have to direct others to go to other boards for things i don't believe in like "sorry, i don't know much about weaning". and i can see how the tribes can isolate us and make mdc divided, now that i've thought about it.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I have to admit that I was thinking the very same thing that sbf and MamaAllNatural were...see what happens when "support only" is taken out. I just don't think that we should always have to defend what we are doing, no matter how nicely someone asks (not directed solely at you BreastisBest, your questions are not new to us). I wish that we could have a "support only" thread and another "info/debate" thread where curious people can post all of their questions and opinions and we can choose to ignore it if we please.

Please don't go anyone.







This whole thing is making me so sad. If we stay strong and stay together then we won't lose what we have. I'll join the Yahoo group too but please, everyone, please stay here too. The support from everyone is so strengthening and heartfelt, I'd hate to lose even one of you. The thought of it makes me so sad.









Would it help if I put back the "support only" part and take our chances on having the thread closed?


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
Breastisbest, it's not you, it's the changes that the administration is making that allow no "support" threads. This used to be "support only" yesterday. Obviously we're not happy about the changes. Don't take it personally.









Ditto!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine*
I have to admit that I was thinking the very same thing that sbf and MamaAllNatural were...see what happens when "support only" is taken out. I just don't think that we should always have to defend what we are doing, no matter how nicely someone asks (not directed solely at you BreastisBest, your questions are not new to us). I wish that we could have a "support only" thread and another "info/debate" thread where curious people can post all of their questions and opinions and we can choose to ignore it if we please.

Exactly!

I'm not offended and I don't feel attacked and I'm sure the question was asked with sincerety. I'm just annoyed about the new policy.

And don't worry, mother_sunshine, I will stay here. But I will also enjoy the new Yahoo group because I won't have to answer everyone's questions about breastfeeding being "inappropriate."


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## BreastisBest78 (Feb 21, 2004)

Okay, that's exactly what I mean. I didn't say I thought breastfeeding was inappropriate. I just asked when exactly does it become inappropriate.







: And it was more of a question that I've heard asked before by others and was curious as to EBing mothers answer for that. But instead of an answer I get snubbed for using the term "inappropriate". Apparently it was a horrible idea to ask any questions. And I guess this must be the reaction everyone gets who ever asks that. Lesson learned. Once again, please excuse me.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Breastisbest, I am sorry if I sounded short. It is the word "inappropriate". It is a negative and judgemental tone. It speaks to an attitude that those of us who nurse into childhood are confronted with every day..even here at "Mothering".

When many mothers ask how to wean at a year old, people proudly share their weaning "tricks" and people in general refer to nursing a 3 or 4 y/o as "disgustng", words like inappropriate bring out negative feelings. Those of us who nurse into childhood or even know other children who have done so know why we are doing it and trust our instincts in a way that is so unsupported and misunderstood. It justs get frustrating and hard to tell sincere questions from attacks.


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## spryte (Jan 27, 2002)

Breastisbest- I was not offended by your question. And I have a feeling there wasn't another place to ask it. What I should have done was put my two comments as separate posts instead of lumping them into one. My apologies.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:

I didn't say I thought breastfeeding was inappropriate.
Your question assumed that breastfeeding a child of a certain age is inappropriate.

Quote:

I just asked when exactly does it become inappropriate.
Exactly. And I answered that there is no age at which breastfeeding becomes inappropriate.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

BreastIsBest,

You've already heard some respones. Having anticipated the possibility of posts that aren't, "Hey, I'm BF a 5 y.o. with no intentions of quitting," and the possibility of posts that are entirely rude, I was not off-put by your post. I'm glad that you stuck around for a moment to hear some responses, and I hope you're still here to hear mine:

I'm not sure whether your question was in regards to the practical side of nursing an older child or the social side. I'll try to address both.

By the time nurslings are 5 or 6 y.o., they probably aren't nursing terribly often during the day, are able to hold-out for nursing at the end of the day, are probably able to accept limitations (like, only at home, etc.) as desired by the mother.

Also, children might be homeschooled, unschooled, private-schooled, alternative-schooled, etc. I, for one, am blessed with the funds to be able to choose a part-time school that is supportive of nursing and non-violent communication, etc. I will homeschool the remainder, I think. I think that if a 5 y.o. cares what other kids think, s/he likely will be astute enough to know what is 'acceptable' and what is unacceptable socially and will refrain from mentioning his/her nursing relationship if s/he estimates that it would result in mocking or other social hardship.

Since you apparently believe that breast is best, you know the many benefits of breastfeeding and that they do not subside with the age of the child. Rather, the amazing maternal body tailors milk to meet the needs of the growing child.

Does that answer your question? I, of course, hope that you continue to think "Breast Is Best" for many years to come!


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## BreastisBest78 (Feb 21, 2004)

Well, I guess it's just that as you probably already know EBing older children is not exactly prevelant (at least from what I've seen) so common curiosity just makes you wonder about such things like the school situation or even different senarios, such as the child's friends and their reactions if they stay over, etc. Also, what is the oldest age you've ever heard of someone bf'ing? These are just things I was wondering about. I'm sorry..I just have never really got to ask any questions like this. I didn't mean to make it seem like I thought that your decision was bad. Can we start over?


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## BreastisBest78 (Feb 21, 2004)

Thanks so much for being so open and patient. Your response really explained a lot.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

I'd hate to see it close









You know, all this has brought up my old views on bf - back before I had children and was the "perfect parent"







I used to be very uncomfortable around breastfeeding. Then as I met people that nursed their little ones, I became a little less uncomfortable. I was one of those people that took the AAP statement to mean "nurse for only one year". But then my little guy arrived and nursing was such a big thing ... it certainly was too big a part of our lives to give it up at one year. As I began educating myself, I became appalled at all the misinformation and apathy regarding breastfeeding in general, not to mention child-led weaning. I thank my LLL leader for "gently introducing" me to Mothering, and I thank all of you for your support as I continue to meet the needs of my 4 1/2 yo nursling


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

I swear 10 people posted between the time I started my last reply and finished it!!

BreastisBest78, what I've found with regard to breastfeeding is similar to what I've found with age. When I was 15, 30 looked really old. Now that I'm on the upside of 30, ok ok make that 40, 50 is looking pretty young. Same with breastfeeding, as I reached each new developmental stage/age with my child what seemed "really old for nursing" before seems just right now. Hope this makes sense...


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *callmemama*
When I was 15, 30 looked really old. Now that I'm on the upside of 30, ok ok make that 40, 50 is looking pretty young. Same with breastfeeding, as I reached each new developmental stage/age with my child what seemed "really old for nursing" before seems just right now. Hope this makes sense...

ITA! When I was pg w/ #1, my dh said, "You're going to breastfeed, right?" (he's the son of a LLL Leader!) and I agreed. I thought I'd nurse for 3-6 months ... nursing a one year old seemed just plain odd to me. Long story short, 5.5 years later I have not only breastfed beyond a year, but have nursed through one pregnancy, tandem nursed through another, and triandem nursed (nursed all three children concurrently) for 18 months until my oldest self-weaned on his fifth birthday. As my children grew, so did my perceptions about nursing.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

BreastIsBest: I'm sorry, I was not clear. I did not feel that your post was of the "entirely rude" variety. I felt that, given that this is no longer a 'support only' thread, a post such as yours was to be expected AND that I appreciated that you entered the discussion with a genuine question. I am sorry that yours happened to be the first non-"support only" post and that you bore the brunt of the collective frustration on this thread regarding the fact that our thread is no longer 'protected.' Really, considering all of the types of posts that I anticipated the possibility of reading on this thread from here on out, I thought yours was respectful and genuine. Listen, there is nothing wrong with asking for another perspective. And if you're asking for perspectives from both 'sides,' so to speak, as you develop your own opinion, then I think that's praise-worthy. These are difficult issues in our society and in our hearts, and you need a safe place to begin delving into them, too. Welcome.


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## BreastisBest78 (Feb 21, 2004)

maybe this is a little off subject but if I have stopped breastfeeding for a month (for various reasons) and now want to start up again is that possible? thanks so much you guys!


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

BreastIsBest:

My understanding is that 'relactation' is possible. From what I recall, chances of success are more likely the younger the child is. But here's a link that'll give you more information:

http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBrelactation.html


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

BIB: here are two threads about relacting, which I haven't read, but maybe they will be helpful to you:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=relactate

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=relactate


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

So getting back to the topic that BIB brought up:

I have been thinking for a while now about what it will be like in Sept. when my ds starts preschool. I am very anxious about it and don't even know if I want him to go, but my dh is encouraging me to send him, and it's a half a block away at our church and seems very nice and is only a few hours a week. anyway....

I am mildly concerned about how our bfing is going to be affected - like when I go to pick him up and he immediately asks to nurse - and if there might be negative comments that would either affect ds and make him feel bad, or if the director of the preschool would even ask me not to do it there (a la the mom who's dc was kicked out of a montessori preschool in australia a little while ago - did you all hear of that???).

I know what my rights are, and I have no qualms about bfing anywhere, anytime, if ds asks for it. I just do worry a little about moving into a new scenario where I am (probably) the only one nursing (an older child) and how will the other parents and the teachers react, etc. etc.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

BIB, I like what fraya said. I wanted to add that Breastfeeding never becomes inappropriate at any age. If they are asking then it is natural and normal.
Good luck with relactating. If your child has only been off the breast 1 month then it is likely that you are still making milk. Breastfeeding often will gradually increase your production. If you are struggling with it then you might want to start a new thread to increase advice.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Re: nursing in school, it hasn't happened with us. Dd lasted 2 days in preschool. I refused to leave her crying for me, and the owner refused to let me stay (as she had promised pre-payment). I remember dd asking for her "nursing cloth" (cloth diapers that I used as nursing pads, then later they became dd's hankies which she still calls "nursing cloths") in front of the teacher. The teacher looked surprised and said "what did she say?". We didn't elaborate because we were on our way out (for good). But she also refused to accept my philosophy that, at 3, she was in fact still a baby.









By the time dd started kindergarten (I worked PT in her class), she wasn't nursing during the day (only sometimes) but she never asked to nurse during school. When she started first grade she came home one day with the announcement that she told her friend that she nurses. Her friend said "I used to breastfeed too when I was a baby"...I don't think it registered that she was nursing NOW...but it was never mentioned again. That friend became her best friend who stayed over at our house for many weekends over the year. Dd never asked to nurse while she was over, she was too busy playing.

It is the adults who have the harsh opinions on breastfeeding/parenting, the kids could care less. They just want to play and be kids.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

sbf, CLW group Moderator, I wasn't sure if we should just jump right in on the yahoo group or if you wanted to do an introductory email?


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BreastisBest78*
Also, what is the oldest age you've ever heard of someone bf'ing?

11


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Mama, why don't you get the ball rolling? (it was your idea after all







I just set it up for you)


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

OK!









Also, BIB, the oldest I've heard of is 12.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

Just to say Yowsa! I didn't see all of those posts in the time it took me to compose mine!

So, I really appreciate all of the sharing and kindness and support and comaraderie on this thread. Y'all have really shown your spirit here, and I appreciate it immensely. I feel honored to be in your e-company.

I didn't really have any plans on how long I'd breastfeed. Infancy, I guess. I knew that I wouldn't breastfeed a child because I'd seen that done and seen my mother disapprove of it (the same person who is one of my strongest breastfeeding advocates now). But, then I read a book that introduced me to the possibility. Then I saw it happen at LLL meetings and playgroup. These amazing, generous mothers were giving this incredible gift to their delightful children! It met my needs for connection to learn that other mamas here came by nursing a non-infant the same way I did: By doing what was best for my child and my heart each step of the way.

I, too, have signed-up for the Yahoo group; thank you to those who set that up.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

OK I could go to yahoo too but that is sooooooooooooooooo much slower on my computor and I cannot view multiple messages etc........

I can't remember anything else I was going to say after reading the whole new page listed below this box.

But as a mama who is child led weaning thus far I don't mind hearing sincere questions another mom has that are areas where she might imagine feeling discomfort. I sometimes imagine that my son will never want to stop







and sometimes I come upon edges I didn't know I would have.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

I was just checking in to see if ya'll are still here... Is everyone going away to yahoo?


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

I didn't get a chance to post to Yahoo yet, but I hope to. I am not going anywhere for now


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Hey mamas...I hope you don't leave!! I posted a bit back and was hoping to get a little feedback...I am not sure if what we are doing is CLW, and I am wondering what the "definition" is, and what the variations would be...my message is #315.
Thanks so much!!
Hugs, Debi


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
OK!









Also, BIB, the oldest I've heard of is 12.

Interesting...My first reaction to that was WOW! in an amazed (impressed) and slightly wow that's OLD kind of way. I took a minute and thought back to when I was 12. When I was 12 I was babysitting other people's children, including a newborn. I couldn't imagine myself nursing at age 12. Then again, I was never nursed. On the other hand, physical/sexual/emotional/mental abuse also started when I was 12 and my parents didn't notice at all. Had I been nursing (and had my mom been willing to nurse me that long) I probably would have had a somewhat closer relationship with my parents and probably would have told them about the abuse. I also started smoking and drinking at around that time ... Hmmmm.

I have a feeling that my daughter may nurse until she's at least 7. She's spent the past two years nursing like a newborn with no signs of slowing (if she could, she'd nurse every 2 hours around the clock!). I can't imagine her slowing down (she LOVES to nurse







) any time soon.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamamoo*
I wanted to respond to the part about nursing a child past 4 who was not practising CLW. I am not nursing them anymore, but I nusred my ds til4 and my dd til a month before her 5th birthday, and I guess what we do isn't considered clw, but gentle weaning? My dd and I settled on a few different weaning dates, but turned out she wasn't ready...we talked about weaning a lot, and while I was ready 100% I could tell there was something bothering her. Finally one night she started crying and telling me that she didn't want to grow up, and basically that she was afraid I wouldn't have time for her, we talked a long time that night, and nursed to sleep...and she never asked to nurse again.
While *I* feel that I allowed her to choose her time, I don't know much about CLW and maybe even bringing up weaning or encouraging it through talking is not considered CLW. I don't know...

With my ds we did set a date, and he had one hard day...I wish I hadn't enforced it, but I was at a loss what to do, I was pregnant with number three(which I ended up losing anyway...so felt even worse), and super tired and sore, and didn't have much support(still don't for nursing over 4), but I have become a stronger mama since then.









anyway just thought i'd post my experience...and i guess question about clw.
if there any threads about what exactly clw is, i would love to be pointed to them.
thanks so much for this thread!!







Debi

I'd like to hear more about CLW older children, too. Is there a mama out there who did absolutely nothing to gently encourage the weaning process? This probably belongs in the CLW thread...


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

:LOL One of the places I got that number was from a book YOU are in!:LOL
I think by that age it would be more rare and very infrequent though. I have a friend who sucked her thumb until she was 12. I do have a friend whose daughter had been weaned for a while but they were falling asleep and her dd (who was 12) started nursing and nursed herself to sleep.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *callmemama*
I was just checking in to see if ya'll are still here... Is everyone going away to yahoo?









I signed up at Yahoo, uploaded pix, even, but I'd rather be here! I'm not going anywhere! (except to NC next week to see my mom, so I might be absent for a few days...)


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
:LOL One of the places I got that number was from a book YOU are in!:LOL
I think by that age it would be more rare and very infrequent though. I have a friend who sucked her thumb until she was 12. I do have a friend whose daughter had been weaned for a while but they were falling asleep and her dd (who was 12) started nursing and nursed herself to sleep.

what book? who is in this book? one of us?? just curious... and nosy!!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Oops Sorry! We must have cross posted. I was resonding to Amanda. It's in _Adventures in Tandem Nursing_. It just has a little section talking about how it's not unusual in certain tribes for a 12 year old to nurse.


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## Mama2ABCD (Jun 14, 2003)

Amanda, do you think that babysitting the newborn at 12 made an impact (maybe not at the time), but later in life when you became a mom? (sorry that you had to go thru what you went thru starting at 12)
i ask because i have a 12 yo girl that babysits my boys a few mornings a week while i work. she was not bf at all and she watches me intently when i nurse my baby (she was very impressed with the nursing bra). that's good, i want her to see that bf is the best option. but.....when i get home (i take baby to work) my boys want "ninnies", and though she has found out what "ninnies" is, i haven't felt comfortable enough to nurse my sons in front of her. i usually nurse the baby first and wait for her to leave then switch to the boys which is probably not fair to them, but i can distract them easily for a little while. so if bf a baby had a positive impact on my babysitter whenever she becomes a mom, then maybe seeing two nursing boys would also have an impact?! well, sooner or later my comfort level with her will cease to be a problem. of course, my boys are so energetic, she might appreciate that they can actually settle down and concentrate on a quiet task!
We are all role models to future moms!


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

MamaAllNatural







Yep...I thought I had read that somewhere before! :LOL I agree...I think that it IS completely natural for a 12 year old to nurse ... I sucked my thumb until I was 9 ... then I started chewing gum constantly ... then I started smoking ... then I got my tongue pierced ... :LOL

(Yes, I'm in Adventures in Tandem Nursing!)

Kristie...
I babysat for families who were as mainstream as you could get. I made tons of bottles of formula and lugged bottles/formula etc. everywhere. UGH! That taught me that I didn't really want to formula feed. The parents yelled at their kids (and each other ) constantly. They taught me exactly how NOT to parent.

The one family I babysat for on a daily basis lived right next door to me. I still know the kids, who are 16 and 14. These kids have seen me nurse all of my children, even tandem nurse through pregnancy. They've seen me nurse a 4 year old. The boy (now 14) and his friend, who I also babysat, know what a nursing bra looks like and how it functions (hey, their parents said that if they ask about any aspect of breastfeeding, I should answer!







) and all about breastfeeding. They even told their friends about how "cool" it is to breastfeed!!!

The now-16 year old girl has been at two of my children's births (medical center ob attended natural birth of a 9.5 pound boy and a midwife attended natural waterbirth of a 8 lbs 4 oz girl), which she said were the best experiences she's ever had in her entire life. She held my daughter when she was just about an hour old. She now babysits my kids! She says I've had a tremendous impact on how she envisions herself parenting her children and is looking forward to me having a homebirth someday. (She also says I gave her the best gift she ever got ... a Keeper! :LOL)

I think it's great that your babysitter has such a wonderful role model!!! Could you ask her if she would be comfortable with you nursing the boys in her presence? That may give her time to think about it, ask questions, etc. and get used to the idea if she finds it a bit uncomfortable.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
I'd like to hear more about CLW older children, too. Is there a mama out there who did absolutely nothing to gently encourage the weaning process? This probably belongs in the CLW thread...

I don't do anything to encourage my older children to wean. They nurse when they want to nurse (unless it's a major problem or is just not possible ... like when we're in the car). My oldest self-weaned on his fifth birthday. He chose the date when he was 4.5 and planned his weaning day for 6 months. He "chickened out" a week and a half before his birthday and I told him it was fine ... that he could continue nursing as long as he liked. Then, the night before his birthday he asked to nurse for the last time. He asked to sleep in bed with me ... and asked me to tell him about when he was born and about our nursing relationship as he nursed for the last time. I told him his story as he nursed for about a half hour. When we woke up the next morning, that was it. It was his weaning day. We celebrated his birth and his weaning ... just the two of us. He's asked to nurse, seriously (he jokes about it all the time just to hear me call him a "weaner"!) , a couple times in the past six months, and did try a couple times, but it ended in hysterical laughter on his part. He was definitely ready to be done. He wasn't sad about it at all ... and neither was I. It truly was a natural ending to that phase of our lives.

I just asked him if I ever did anything to try to get him to wean and he laughed, saying, "No, but you did try to get me to nurse more when your breasts were hurting!" :LOL


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

So, am I not posting my questions in the right place???







:


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamamoo*
I wanted to respond to the part about nursing a child past 4 who was not practising CLW. I am not nursing them anymore, but I nusred my ds til4 and my dd til a month before her 5th birthday, and I guess what we do isn't considered clw, but gentle weaning? My dd and I settled on a few different weaning dates, but turned out she wasn't ready...we talked about weaning a lot, and while I was ready 100% I could tell there was something bothering her. Finally one night she started crying and telling me that she didn't want to grow up, and basically that she was afraid I wouldn't have time for her, we talked a long time that night, and nursed to sleep...and she never asked to nurse again.
While *I* feel that I allowed her to choose her time, I don't know much about CLW and maybe even bringing up weaning or encouraging it through talking is not considered CLW. I don't know...

With my ds we did set a date, and he had one hard day...I wish I hadn't enforced it, but I was at a loss what to do, I was pregnant with number three(which I ended up losing anyway...so felt even worse), and super tired and sore, and didn't have much support(still don't for nursing over 4), but I have become a stronger mama since then.









anyway just thought i'd post my experience...and i guess question about clw.
if there any threads about what exactly clw is, i would love to be pointed to them.
thanks so much for this thread!!







Debi

It sounds like you weaned your children with love and at a time they were ready to wean, and when it was right for you, also. I wouldn't exactly call it child-led weaning, but it sounds like gentle weaning.

To me, child-led weaning is allowing your child to decide when they are ready to wean without actively doing anything to promote weaning...nursing when they ask, unless it's a problem at that moment or isn't possible at that moment (like when driving a car, or when you need to finish making dinner or it will burn!). At those times, the answer is, yes, we can nurse when I'm done, when we get there, etc. It's natural that a child would have to wait to nurse sometimes and that mama can't always say yes at that moment. I don't cut down on frequency of nursings, don't night-wean, etc. I let our nursing relationship follow its natural course.

Speaking of nursing ... my leg is falling asleep from naking and I need to get dinner on the table ... what in the world possessed me to make chili on a HOT, HuMiD day like today???


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

I didn't encourage weaning in either of mine, but we would talk about the concept occasionally. It goes along the lines of "someday you won't need onnee anymore, and Mommy will still hold you and hug you and love you....." I don't remember talking about it much with DS, but that was a good 8 1/2 years ago too.

I think talking about it doesn't preclude it being childlead. If you're following your child's lead on what they need, what they're worried about, etc then you're still doing childled IMO.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I did nightwean my dd when she was around 2. I have justified it as my need to be a good mother during the day if I was not sleep-deprived during the night....something that I felt was completely justified. Maybe it was justified, maybe I would have given up and weaned earlier otherwise, before I knew better? Looking back, it was a time when I didn't yet have internet access nor the knowledge of child-led weaning. My main source of parenting education was how I was raised (mainly what I *didn't* want to do), a slew of parenting magazines that were easy to access (aka mainstream), and the demon of all demons....the What to Expect books. It's a wonder that we are still nursing! I found MDC when dd was 4 and then I realized that I wasn't alone and that there are other mothers who were having the same "follow your heart" feelings that I was. Maybe if I would have found MDC earlier we would have never night-weaned because I would have had the support to let her lead the way completely.....*sigh*....oh well. I think what is most important is that my heart and my child did win out in the end and I am letting her ultimately decide when she is fully ready to wean.

So, to restate my long-winded answer, yes I did encourage her to slow down along the way, I did limit it sometimes, and there were a few times when I was feeling pressured to wean and I tried but dd and I both ended up in tears and quickly got back on the track of CLW. I'm not completely happy with the way I have gone off path at times, if I would have just listened to dd we would have been fine, but I have forgiven myself and I think dd has forgiven me too.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2threenurslings*
I don't do anything to encourage my older children to wean. They nurse when they want to nurse (unless it's a major problem or is just not possible ... like when we're in the car). My oldest self-weaned on his fifth birthday. He chose the date when he was 4.5 and planned his weaning day for 6 months. He "chickened out" a week and a half before his birthday and I told him it was fine ... that he could continue nursing as long as he liked. Then, the night before his birthday he asked to nurse for the last time. He asked to sleep in bed with me ... and asked me to tell him about when he was born and about our nursing relationship as he nursed for the last time. I told him his story as he nursed for about a half hour. When we woke up the next morning, that was it. It was his weaning day. We celebrated his birth and his weaning ... just the two of us. He's asked to nurse, seriously (he jokes about it all the time just to hear me call him a "weaner"!) , a couple times in the past six months, and did try a couple times, but it ended in hysterical laughter on his part. He was definitely ready to be done. He wasn't sad about it at all ... and neither was I. It truly was a natural ending to that phase of our lives.

I just asked him if I ever did anything to try to get him to wean and he laughed, saying, "No, but you did try to get me to nurse more when your breasts were hurting!" :LOL































Thank you so much for sharing your story! I'm so glad you're here to share yourself!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Sorry for the triple-posting everyone, I just wanted to let you all know that I have 6 family members coming from California tomorrow (most of them for the first time), so I probably won't be posting until they leave in 10 days. I will miss you!


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Michelle...
I think it's awesome that you, with lack of support and without knowing anyone else who was following their heart in parenting their child as you were yours, have gotten to the place you are now. Amazing! I don't think you should feel bad at all... you did what needed to be done. It sounds like nightweaning truely was what was best for you and your dd at the time...if mama is tired and stressed it has an effect on the nursling, too. You did great!


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Wow mamas. Thanks! I guess just like everything else it is all up to the individual to interperet what CLW means to them. While I did encourage nightweaning(for the same reasons as Michelle), I really did follow my heart and my dd's lead. And while I encouraged some of it, it was only so that I could be a better parent, as I *was* feeling resentful sometimes(which I hate to even think about, let alone admit). I do wonder how much of the resentment stemmed from society/family pressure. I wish I had been more comfortable with my beliefs with ds1, but overall I still think it was a very good experience for the both of us. It was an extremely gentle and loving weaning period.

I am so greatful that I found this thread though, and that I will have the knowledge, and support to let my ds2 andd the new baby lead the way on their weaning.
Hugs, Debi


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Debi

Thanks for the kind words Amanda


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## Mama2ABCD (Jun 14, 2003)

Amanda, thanks for your response. And because i posted, it forced me to think about my comfort, what was important, etc....anyhooo, i've since nursed my boys with babysitter present though not together. i just nursed them one at a time. she seemed to take it all in stride. she did ask what they gave me so that i could nurse so long. which shows she's aware of how important nutrition is.

i also have a new neighbor down the road (she's originally from Spain, i love her accent) who tandemed nursed over ten years ago. Her children are 13 and 14 now and they are very close and very smart. I love hearing about how close siblings are when they nurse together. One of my main goals in nursing extended/tandem is for my children to have a close bond not just with me, but with each other (and to remember why)!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Dd just announced this morning that she thinks she is weaned. She hasn't nursed in at least 2 weeks...maybe longer (lost track)...and was decreasing nursing sessions dramatically in the past several months. She was all bright-eyed and proud of herself when she told me this. I told her that when everyone leaves in 10 days (we have 6 family members coming today) we'll have a special day together. She said that she wants to go through all the photo albums with me.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

mother sunshine: You guys handle this with more aplomb than I think I could. Of course, two years and (possibly) another nursling from now, I might feel more ready for it. Wow!


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Oh mother-sunshine! How are you doing? It is such an interesting process, you know? One day, you can't imagine them ever weaning, and then all of a sudden, it is their idea. I am so glad she was happy and proud of herself.

You should be proud of yourself too. You gave her such a gift.


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Oh, wow!! Amazing...congratulations for giving her such an precious gift, and congratulations to her...growing into the next stage of her childhood. What an amazing moment.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

MotherSunshine, hugs, tears, and congratulations!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Wow I am so emotional with the plentiful tandem nursing hormones flowing freely throughout my body!:LOL















That is so sweet and wonderful! You have met her needs so well that she's able to see she has been fulfilled and she has found herself, in her own time, ready to move on. You are such a wonderful mama and she is such a lucky, happy girl to have you!


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Mother Sunshine! Welcome to the next stage of parenting.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

My baby turned 2 today!







: Haley!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Mother Sunshine - WOW! I was surprised by your announcement! But what a lovely way for your dd to wean







You seem so accepting of it, too. The photo albums will be a nice way for the two of you to go down memory lane together!

Mom23 - Happy Birthday to your baby!


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

BTW, MotherSunshine, please stick around and offer us moral support and guidance


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Thank you everyone for your support and kind words.














I have so many feelings going on, but mostly pride and comfort in knowing that my daughter had a full 7 years of nursing and weaned when SHE was fully ready.....although, who knows, maybe she'll nurse again or maybe not. She's the kind of person who means what she says and pretty much sticks to it. ....But all these feelings along with 6 guests......I burned a pot of beans yesterday and started bawling because of it. :LOL

I wouldn't think of leaving you guys! I love it here and I love giving support. I always wished that other mamas who have BTDT had stuck around when I had questions....or just to know that they were there. So I'm hoping I can do that for others, and keep up with the friendships I've developed here.









I'm in the middle of entertaining 6 guests so I have to cut this short......I'll be back.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Can I join in this far in the thread?

I obviously have not read all the responses. I just want to be part of this support. I am nursing my almost 3 year old and getting alot of pressure to wean her even though she and I aren't on that page.

I think I am ready for this thread. It will be helpful to my confidence level.

Thanks to everyone.

And btw....Mother sunshine I think you are a courageous generous special person.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Welcome, mountain mom!

mother sunshine ...







You are truly inspiring! What a thing to be going through with 6 guests in your house! I hope your weaning celebration is a special as it sounds like it's going to be!


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

This is a great place to keep your wits about you when the world is not on the same page with EB.

Ds is almost 4 (in August) and although he usually only nurses waking up in the morning or sometimes to sleep at night or a nap, we still go to LLL meetings and this forum for our nursing community.

We just returned from a 2 week trip to Michigan where they have given up asking me about nursing. Since it is less frequent than a year ago, no one ever sees us mommy drinking because we are in a bedroom.









There are so many benefits to EB as you know but I just have to mention that even at this age getting a travelling, highly energetic child to take a much-needed nap by nursing him to sleep is the GREATEST thing going!









To return home we had to drive an hour to the airport shuttle. Then spend 2 hours on a shuttle bus with no seatbelts.







Ds couldn't nap because he was to excited about whatever. Then our flight home was 2 hours late and then we had to drive an hour home after that at midnight pacific time.







Ds slept the whole way on the plane and did not want to go to bed when we arrived home. Nursing him to sleep after that was a gift to all of us!

Mother Sunshine You are my mentor!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

today i'm really thankful that you mammas are here. i can only hope that my clay will nurse to seven. since he eats very little food and talks so fondly about nursing, it does seem possible. it has also made me reconsider my babyfever (which is moot, since i have an iud.....) the situation with my eldest weaning at 2.5 is one of my biggest regrets in life. i do know that having friends in real life with older nurslings has had a tremendous impact on me as well, and i hope some of you have friends like that as well.

much love, casina


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Wow, what a wonderful treasure to come in and read these posts this morning. Thank you all for your kind words and support. I mean it. You made me cry









Whew, all these emotions! :LOL


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## darlindeliasmom (Nov 19, 2001)

mother_sunshine: I was away this weekend, and am just now catching up with the news...hope the two of you have a wonderful day together. We are still hanging out in the not actually nursing but not ready to say we are weaned department, where we've been for a while!!
Maybe this summer will give us a chance to have a special day...when she's satisfied and ready to move on. I love the description of your dd's feelings of pride!!


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## spryte (Jan 27, 2002)

MotherSunshine-
Just thinking of you and the wonderful gift you gave your dd. I hope going through the photo albums during your special day is truly wonderful.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

mother sunshine, my clothing is damp with tears. Thank you for such a beautiful story.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

I am really glad that this thread is still going. I post here now and then. My DS is just three so I am not as far down the path as many of you. This summer I will be facing the silent criticism of my sister-in-law who weaned her children before 1 and I will need support. I'm not sure how frequent my internet access will be. Just thinking of you all will help. We may end up having a discussion; if we do I hope it will be along the lines of "You choose the way you mother I choose the way I mother and all mothers deserve support". (BTW her children are 17 and 21, and quite brilliant - she is a proud and loving mom - and perhaps feels qualified as a judge of what is essential for children)


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

A while ago I heard of a nursing photo album a woman put together. Well I was surprised at how few photos I had of DS nursing. Since then I have made sure to take some. I was lucky to cross paths with my brother's friend who is a photographer. He took some great (I think) photos. DS was two at the time. If there's any interest I will give the link to his website where you can view one. Caution, some nuditiy involved.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

I am a photographer, and I always at least offer to take photos of a mother when she's nursing. I often ask my husband to take photos of me nursing my son (he does so reluctantly).

I actually am starting my own public service photography firm (I'm also a lawyer, which is what gave me the public service idea), and one of my first projects was going to be, initially, to promote breastfeeding through photography. I also make custom cards, and I thought it would be cool to be able to offer free birth announcements to people who put a nursing photo on their announcements -- to share the beauty of nursing with their loved ones.

Anyway, my point is ... good for you, making sure that you document this important part of your relationship! Just think, our kids will grow up thinking it's normal, knowing how wonderful it was for them, and being able to share the visual image of it so that others can share in their joy. Very cool.


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

Mother Sunshine,

She will remember it forever, so its not the end. Mine weaned 2 years ago this week! It still seems like yesterday, since she still talks about it


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## Mama2ABCD (Jun 14, 2003)

for the mama's that have shared beautiful weaning stories and talked about their children's memory of nursing...







thanks for the inspiration! (and guidance)


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## dziejen (May 23, 2004)




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## dziejen (May 23, 2004)

Hi all! I have 2 girls. My oldest turns 8 in August and my youngest (my nursling) will be 3 in 2 months and is still dedicated to bf. We have shown some signs of weaning and slowing down but I am sure that she will continue for awhile at bedtime and upon waking at least. The daytime nursings are fewer and far between, especially with the warmer outdoor weather upon us as we very rarely need to NIP. Glad to know there I am one of many nursing a toddler as it is something not seen too much round here.


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## zaftigmama (Feb 13, 2004)

Wow, this is a loooong thread. Good for us. Anyway, I thought it was kind of funny, I never read this thread. I thought EB meant exclusively breastfeeding, not extended breastfeeding. So, I thought it wasn't for me. I'm nursing a three year old and a one year old, I belong after all!!

Take care,


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingbear*
If there's any interest I will give the link to his website where you can view one. Caution, some nuditiy involved.










I would love to see the website! I love nursing pictures. I truly think there is nothing more beautiful than a woman nursing her children.

Bec


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Thanks hummingbear, darlindeliasmom, spryte, firemom, and kirstie for your kind words this past week.








Cindy (firemom), your weaning experience a couple of years ago has helped give me perspective as dd and I head down that path. I remember how you'd think dd was weaned....then she would want to nurse again....the "weaned at 5.4yrs" turned into 5.6 then 5.9 :LOL

Well, after a very long fun-but-stressful week of visiting with relatives, dd nursed last night before bed:LOL. I think it was a combination of the lack of sleep plus all the excitement suddenly turned quiet. She was a little disappointed that I wasn't producing much milk but she still nursed for quite a while. Because of shared weaning experiences like Cindy's, I'm just going with it and accepting it rather than panicking or being confused. I told her that it's okay either way, that she should still be proud, and that she'll know when it's time. I realize this is natural and may keep happening off and on for however long she needs to. I hope you guys don't mind putting up with our ups & downs and offs & ons of our path to weaning.







Your support has meant a lot.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

MotherSunshine, I didn't have the benefit of firemom's experiences. YOU are MY map - lead the way!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

It's so great to have you back Mother Sunshine! I missed you.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Mother_sunshine. I think it is a process, especially when they have nursed as long as our girls







Sometimes it seems dd just isn't ready to say she is weaned, ya know? She is one of the kids where a weaning party would never work. It would have to be a special day just the two of us, like you talked about with your dd.

I admire your patience am honored to hear about the process.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)




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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

BTW, Joan, I like your new senior title. :LOL


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine*
BTW, Joan, I like your new senior title. :LOL

Thanks! I'm such a goofball, aren't I?


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## spryte (Jan 27, 2002)

MotherSunshine, etal-

dd has been doing something similar for quite some time. She will nurse and then say she is weaned. Then after a week had passed I would mention that we should have a weaning party or a special day just for her and she would say- I am not ready to wean yet. I don't ask anymore and am just letting her go at her own pace. It seems the nursing is more and more infrequent but it still seems important.

It is very confusing at times so hugs to all who are in the process.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Hi friends, I'm back from vaca. I was in NC with my ds visiting my mom and stepfather.
So the whole week we were there, we had a designated nursing rocking chair that was in our bedroom. I (who have no qualms nursing anytime, anywhere!) did not have the courage to nurse in front of my 70 year old dsf - I just know he will have something to say about it, and I just didn't want to even deal with it.

Did I miss anything while I was away??


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
Did I miss anything while I was away??









Nah. :LOL

I am glad you had a good trip! Welcome back


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

:LOL

Welcome back Adrianne


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## Cranberry (Mar 18, 2002)

I think my 4yo ds has given up nursing in the morning when he wakes up! Now he just wants to get up and start the day! I am amazed... I thought he'd do this forever!! He still nurses once or twice during the day and at bedtime, but he is slowly weaning. I don't know if I'm happy or sad!!! :LOL


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

That is a pretty important nursing too! Ben got up this morning with daddy without asking to nurse. It is such a process. Has he been doing it for long?


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Cranberry


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## Cranberry (Mar 18, 2002)

Mom4tot, for the past few weeks he would sometimes nurse in the morning and sometimes not. But today I realized I can't remember the last time he nursed in the morning...

Thanks for the







s, mother sunshine!


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

Mother Sunshine: From your keyboard to my daily living .... My son needs so much for me to just go with the flow, and I'm working hard at it. Sometimes I'm better at it than others. I appreciate your keeping us updated on how you are letting your daughter chart your nursing relationship and keeping your cool.

I think you once responded to a thread I started about constipation, and you said that your approach was that relaxed is best with a breastfed kid. That was THE key, and it remains the key in so much of our lives.

Thank you! I'll definitely keep that one in my head for when my son is decidedly weaning.

Incidentally, I am not getting hte yahoo group emails ...


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Fraya

(That reminds me fraya, I need to still join the yahoo group.)

Dd hasn't nursed since that one nursing last week, and she is once again saying that she is weaned. This is funny to me because a year ago if the word "weaned" was even mentioned she would have cried.

(We went through a hard time when she turned 6 and I lost all family support at the time....we quickly got back on track after receiving support here at MDC.







)

Whoa







, I think I have logged on here at least 3 times today....I think I'm hooked....or maybe I'm drawn to the current drama. :LOL


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fraya*

Incidentally, I am not getting hte yahoo group emails ...

That's strange... I distinctly remember approving you, but now I don't see you on the list of members.







Would you like to re-submit your request to join? Here's the address of the group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clw_older_nurslings


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i have a friend irl whose ds decided to wean on his sixth birthday. and on his seventh birthday, asked to nurse (and nursed well enough to drink, since she still has milk for her 3ydd) and hasn't again.


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## mamajdr (Nov 24, 2001)

Hi, I just wanted to add my name to the list. :2bfbabe: I'm nursing my 5 year old dd and 9 month dd. I was one of those who thought I'd wean at 18 months or so and was converted to CLW. It seemed so natural and easy and normal until age 4 and since then has hurt a lot and I've had to limit nursing with 5 year old to once a day. I keep hoping she will wean on her own but it doesn't seem to be any time soon.

Thank you for this thread. It has been very supportive!!!


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## huntersmommy (Dec 28, 2003)

SBF would you mind if I joined the clw yahoogroup? Or is it an invite only?
No worries if it is, just thought I'd ask.
I am tandem nursing my babes 5yrs and 13 mths.
I too have found tremenous support and comfort from you mamas here.
I don't know any other mamas who are EBF and it is so great to hear stories that strike so close to home, some are so funny I literally cry I laugh so hard. Because I can think "hey, that's exactly how it is"
My family is very supportive, so I am pretty lucky there, but it is great to actually listen to mamas in the same boat.

So thanks for giving me a place where I can find some peace!


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Cool story, casinea









Welcome mamajdr and huntersmommy


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

No, it's not invitation only, but I do have to approve you. When you submit your request to join, just say "hi it's huntersmommy from MDC" and I'll approve you.

By the way, has everyone seen the "breastfeeding older child" smilie that my dp made?
















:

.


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## nankilicious (Apr 6, 2004)

I am a new mom, nursing my first baby, so obviously not an ebf'er...yet. I am not exactly sure how our nursing relationship will go, but I do want to say,
You mamas rock. I totally admire your dedication, your commitment, your pride, your courage, and your willingness to share your experiences. I am grateful that I can read your stories and learn and benefit from a new POV.
Thanks.


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

This thread has given me such confidence that I never think about this issue much anymore when I am at home. But when we travel I think about the women in this forum and this thread and they all come with me and ds.









As we travel through places I think, "How many EB mommies live here?"







: And I know there are more than many would think







and we are a wonderful web of loving women giving our children the normal food for humans. :tandem

Our children will grow up thinking this is the way it is supposed to be and hopefully when they are parents, almost EVERYONE will be mommy drinking as long as they want, wherever they want, whenever they like!







:







:2tandem







: :infant: :girl:







:boy: :bf







:


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

casina, you're so lucky to have friends like that IRL. Bring her over here to MDC!
















mamajdr and huntersmommy. Glad you're here!

sbf, I love the new smilie!!!







: Please tell your dp THANK YOU!!









nankilicious







, good luck on your breastfeeding journey!








ajsmom. I share your dream. I hope it comes true one day soon.


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## huntersmommy (Dec 28, 2003)

: I love it!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Once again, dd says she is weaned. Tonight at bedtime she cuddled really close to my breasts and I could sense something from her (not sure exactly what it was.....but it was directed at my breasts) so I gently asked her if she wanted to nurse. She said "No" kind-of quietly. I said she could if she wanted to. She said "No, I don't get milk anymore, you don't make milk anymore." Feeling a little sad (and surprised because I have always made plenty of milk for her), I asked if she got milk the last time she nursed (a little over a week ago) and she said "No, all I got was a bunch of my own spit".....which made me laugh because she had nursed for a good half hour that night. I told her "oh well, I guess that's the way it happens", she agreed. Then, in her sleepy voice she said "Can I have a weaning party?":LOL So I said sure and that we'll talk about it tomorrow. Then as she was fading into sleep she woke enough to say "Maybe we can make cupcakes"...and I gently rubbed her back to sleep.

It's weird because last time, was it 2-3 weeks ago, we were both excited and proud about her weaning. This time it was bittersweet. I don't make milk anymore. This is the mother who made so much milk for 7 years, over 3 of those years it was so plentiful that I had to wear an oversized bra with doubled cloth diapers in them to absorb all the milk. I couldn't even take a bath without having a mama-milk bath. And this is the little girl who said "Mama milk" until she was 7 (and a half). And now there's no more mama milk. I'm so sad and yet so happy. We did this right. I am so proud to say that I let my child wean herself the biologically (no, the _humanly_) natural way.









So now she has that memory to take with her in her journey of life. If she has children one day, may it help her see breastfeeding in the wonderfully positive light that it deserves to be in.









Who knows, maybe she will ask again someday...I'm guessing not, but don't be surprised:LOL. Irregardless, I will be there to give her whatever she needs from me.

Thanks for being here so I can share this.


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## Cranberry (Mar 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cranberry*
I think my 4yo ds has given up nursing in the morning when he wakes up! Now he just wants to get up and start the day! I am amazed... I thought he'd do this forever!! He still nurses once or twice during the day and at bedtime, but he is slowly weaning. I don't know if I'm happy or sad!!! :LOL









OK, I spoke to soon! He is back to nursing in the morning! He started doing it again over the weekend. We were away from home, so perhaps that had something to do with it?


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine*
It's weird because last time, was it 2-3 weeks ago, we were both excited and proud about her weaning. This time it was bittersweet. I don't make milk anymore. This is the mother who made so much milk for 7 years, over 3 of those years it was so plentiful that I had to wear an oversized bra with doubled cloth diapers in them to absorb all the milk. I couldn't even take a bath without having a mama-milk bath. And this is the little girl who said "Mama milk" until she was 7 (and a half). And now there's no more mama milk. I'm so sad and yet so happy. We did this right. I am so proud to say that I let my child wean herself the biologically (no, the _humanly_) natural way.









So now she has that memory to take with her in her journey of life. If she has children one day, may it help her see breastfeeding in the wonderfully positive light that it deserves to be in.









Thanks for being here so I can share this.
















Thank you Michelle, that is so beautiful. I am in tears, mostly of happiness for you and your little girl that you shared such a wonderful and natural journey.

Many







's for you both.

While I didn't do your tattoo, you already know you are my "CLW role model"


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## Peace4all (Jan 16, 2002)

Mother sunshine, thank-you so much for sharing. That is what I want. I had written a few weeks back about some trouble that I was having nursing ds who is 6. Then we went on vacation and I haven't had time to write back. I need to read over everything, (alot has been written in the last few weeks) but you had asked if it was perhaps his latch, losing teeth etc., and it might be that. We are doing better, though I find myself still nursing for awhile and then encouraging a snuggle instead of nursing until he just quits. It just becomes uncomfortable, and I don't mean that it hurts. I find that I often cannot relax if he is nursing, and we are going to sleep, or if I am reading to him. It is disapointing to me that I now feel this way. I hope it is a phase and that I can get back onto the track that I want to be on. Anyway, thanks so much to everyone that is here.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Awww Mother Sunshine!





















That is so sweet! Thank you so much for sharing. I'm so happy for you both. It is so bittersweet! Let us know how the weaning party goes.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

By the way, MamaAllNatural....looks like you've been DOUBLE-ddddc'd!









Hmmmmm......







......anybody ready to fess up yet?


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

I just had to come and say thank you mamas! My dd(5), who weaned about four months ago asked to nurse recently in front of my dh and sister. While they are both supportive of bfing, they also think weaned is weaned, and thought it was weird that she ask after "so long", and even weirder that I was considering letting her try. I felt a little bit weird too(I hate to even admit it), but we went in the bedroom, and talked, and I let her try to nurse. She was giggling like crazy, then all of a sudden crying, like her poor heart was broken...she couldn't remember how...and she was crying these heartwrenching sobbs, saying mama, mama, over and over again. I just held her and cried a bit myself, and loved her...I just don't know if this is normal, for her to feel so sad about it. I mean I know it is hard to wean sometimes, but she really did wean herself, I thought she was ready...I feel like there should have been something else I could have done for her. I don't know. I am just glad that I had all of you strong mamas here to let me know that her wanting to nurse again was normal, and I was happy to let her.
Hugs, Debi


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

:LOL I didn't even think about it! Do you think it's really two separate DDDDC's? I started a thread in TAO but haven't had any responses yet. It's a big mystery. I _have_ to know who did though! I love it - or them.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)




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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

LOL @ MamaAllNatural's ddddc "breast friends" :LOL

mother_sunshine, you are such a wonderful mother.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbf*
LOL @ MamaAllNatural's ddddc "breast friends" :LOL

:LOL I know! I'm lovin' it!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbf*
mother_sunshine, you are such a wonderful mother.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Wow, Mother Sunshine! I reeeeeeeaally love your story! I feel like it's such good timing for your DDDDC!

(







'twas me!







)

And MamaAllNatural, you are my other CLW Role Model!








(







also 'twas me!







)


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
And MamaAllNatural, you are my other CLW Role Model!








(







also 'twas me!







)

You're so sweet Adrianne!







I feel so undeserving.


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## mommy2three (Apr 6, 2003)

Hi Mamas!!!!

I didn't get to read all the posts yet but look forward to reading about your EN experiences. I don't know if I really count as EN yet because my son is only 2 (well, turning 2 on Friday). I am 27 weeks pregnant with our 4th little beauty!!!! I totally believe in child-led weaning and hope that Sam makes it through this no milk time until my milk comes back in and doesn't wean himself. He went 5 days last week!!!!







But then started up again although it is unbelieveably painful but after a while goes numb







(and tried about 4 times today) Every time he nurses and I'm guessing nothing comes out he looks at me with a odd look and I tell him mamas milk will be back soon so keep trying.

This pregnancy was a bit of a shock and I was so scared that he would wean when my milk dried up. He's so young and I wanted to nurse him until he's at least 3.5 yrs old. Besides my belief in child- led weaning, he also has a rare genetic disease that is very similar to Rickets so it's so important that he keeps nursing. He's also alergic to everything which is another reason I want him to nurse for a long time. I can't wait to see the look on his face the first time he gets a mouth full of mama milk after the baby is born!!!!!!!

I look forward to reading about all of your experiences with EN and especially with nursing while preg. and tandem nursing. It give me strength!!!! I know that sounds silly but it really does. I never knew that I could nurse while preg and tandem until I went to my local LL meetings and saw moms nursing their toddlers/children AND their newborns!!! I was so happy to finally belong somewhere where I don't get incensitive comments about EN, etc.








To you all and thank you for doing what you're doing and being such wonderful mamas!!!!


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## mommy2three (Apr 6, 2003)

Ok, I'm reading the posts backwards...

MotherSunshine- What a beautiful post!!! Reading/hearing stories like that make me proud to be part of this amazing community of womyn. As I was reading your post I could picture your daughter sleepily talking to you about the weaning party. How very sweet.

I think you're absolutely right, she's going to be a wonderful nursing mama someday!!! I think that about my own children as well becasue I make a point to talk about nursing all the time and they come to my LL meetings with me. My daughter pretends to nurse her dolls,e tc. And I'm sure my sons will encourage their wives to nurse as well...

Thanks again for sharing and hugs to you and your dd!!!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
Wow, Mother Sunshine! I reeeeeeeaally love your story! I feel like it's such good timing for your DDDDC!

(







'twas me!







)



THANK YOU Adrianne!!!!!







That (the ddddc AND your words) means a lot to me!!!


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## Alegria (Jul 21, 2002)

I haven't read 'cause I haven't been here in a while but I just wanted to share.







4yo DD just said, patting the top of my chest, "I like to put my ears here when I am drinking boobie because than I can hear your







heart beating.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Thank you sbf







, MamaAllNatural







, mommy2three







, Peace4all







, and Joan









Mamamoo























MamaAllNatural, I think Gr8flmom answered your question about the double-ddddc. :LOL


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Alegria, that's so sweet.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Well, we just finished a full day's worth of "Weaning Party":LOL. Just the two of us most of the day and then dinner, cupcakes, and "dance party" with dh joining us.































Where's the "fall-over-and-pass-out-of-exhaustion" smilie?

(I said to dd "what ever happened to the quiet day together looking at photo albums?" to which she replied "We can do that tomorrow". :LOL)

:yawning:


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine*
"We can do that tomorrow"











My dd likes to listen to my "heart beep," too.


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Awww...how sweet. I would love a day alone with dd to celebrate, I wonder if she wouldn't feel so sad about weaning.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I forgot to add that I read this thread (the responses to her weaning) to dd yesterday. She realized that SHE had just a big of part in sharing it with everyone here. She said "That means maybe I was able to help other children". She was very comforted by that.









(today is a calm day to look at photo albums and watch her videos







)


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

mother sunshine ...







how sweet!!! Your daughter sounds absolutely amazing!!! It's great to hear that you and she are having such a wonderful celebration of your beautiful nursing relationship!!!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

It's been so quiet around here lately. Just wanted to see how everyone is doing and if you're all still "here".









Hopefully everyone is just out and enjoying the Summer.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Hi Everyone! I am still here, mostly reading and lurking and learning!

DD is very connected to the boob lately. She is 2 and 3/4 and it seems now that she is more vocal we talk about the boob alot. She understands when I need a break. Sometimes she will nurse every 30 minutes for about 20 minutes thus meaning we nurse pretty much around the clock. I can actually talk to her now about how I need some of my personal time, to refill my boobs and have a break. She is so sweet, she will say, OF course mama you need nite nite too. (nite nite means quiet time in our family)

I feel I am childled weaning, even though I decline some of the requests of dd to nurse. I say that I decline about 1 out of every 15 requests.

I can't see her wanting to stop anytime soon. Which is fine with me.

Anyhow, we have been enjoying the sun and the fun of summer!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I'm here, too, but lurking mostly...


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

And although ds did NOT nurse to sleep the night before last - he says "I'm going to think..." and puts his head on a pillow. I told him I love to fall asleep looking out the window at the stars. Then he fell asleep. Last night he nursed to sleep.

And in the morning he wants to nurse twice on each side. After that I suggest he needs to eat breakfast.









Knock on wood - I think the once or twice a day nursing has cured our/my thrush. when ds nurses a lot I had thrush a lot. I tried everything but BORAX - homeopathic remedy was the last thing I tried and no thrush since then! It's been 3 months.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

mountain mom, Adrianne







, and ajsmom







.

Ajsmom, what a sweet story!


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## ldsapmom (Apr 8, 2002)

Hi, Mamas!

I currently have a solo nursling who will be three in November. His brother weaned on his 4th birthday, so I am imagining Isaac will come close or push past that -- I am pretty open either way. We tandem nursed for almost two years, and I have to say I really disliked going from 2 to 1 -- it was a lot easier for us to be a threesome versus a twosome, if t hat makes sense or rings a bell with anyone!

Isaac nurses anywhere from 1 to 10 times a day, depending on the day. I love the way nursing smooths out so many toddler issues -- it really can be a lifesaver! And I love that Isaac still gets the immunities he needs, as his system is still not fully developed yet. And I love the it still irks the in-laws (am I evil







?).


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Still here, still nursing! Zachary (who will be 4 on Saturday!!!) nurses 2-4 times a day and Haley (2) nurses whenever she's near my breast, whenever I sit down, whenever I walk into the room she's in, etc.

Something quite miraculous (sp?) happened on Saturday night ... I went to the movies, alone, at bedtime! Daddy put the kids to bed, including Haley. It was the first time she didn't nurse to sleep! Daddy said she asked where I was, fussed for a minute or two, and then snuggled with him in bed until she fell asleep. I got to watch the entire movie (Harry Potter...I'd seen it already with dh, but figured it would be better to leave a movie I'd already seen than leave during a movie I hadn't seen, if Haley needed me!) and spend a couple uninterrupted hours with dh when I got home. I HAD TO wake Haley up a bit to nurse when I went to bed because my breast was SO full!

So now we know that Daddy can put her to bed if needed, which will give me the opportunity to occasionally go to a meeting at night if I need to (my church tends to schedule meetings at my kids' bedtime!). I will, of course, continue to nurse her to sleep otherwise!


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ldsapmom*
We tandem nursed for almost two years, and I have to say I really disliked going from 2 to 1 -- it was a lot easier for us to be a threesome versus a twosome, if t hat makes sense or rings a bell with anyone!

It rings a bell with me ... only for me it was easier being a nursing foursome versus the threesome we are now. I sometimes find it difficult to connect with Alex as often as we did when he was nursing, and I'm seeing a real need in him for me to do so. It was so much easier when he was nursing and would seek me out for that special time. Now, I think he doesn't really know how to ask for it and at times doesn't realize that he needs to take time out to center himself ... which nursing provided for him in the past.


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

My son turns 4 in a couple of weeks and since he is nursing only a couple of times a day I am trying to make sure we have some time together just to sit and be. Luckily he likes to instigate it and will just come up and say he wants to snuggle or says he loves me and we have kisses. He even asks me to kiss him.

He is reaping the benefits of my reading "Raising cain, Protecting the Emotional Life of Boys" because I am much more tolerant now of his emerging boyhood. I let him open all the paints today and pour whatever he wanted onto a tray and mix it all up and paint the easel and have blue hands and splash it around and yikes it was everywhere. And he was careful not to get it on things I asked him not to. He kept waiting for me to come and clean him up and I just didn't. It was great!

I guess I am letting him grow up now that he's beyond that 3 year old development thing they do. (I was very challenged this spring







: ) I love him so much and nursing him this long was never my intention but I am so grateful for it. I hope we can continue to find new wonderful ways to connect with each other. Perhaps we'll paint the fence...


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## Cranberry (Mar 18, 2002)

Hi all! My 4yo ds is still nursing to sleep and a couple of times during the day. As I said in an earlier post he has mostly given up his morning wake-up nursing. As much as I sometimes want him to be finished nursing, I am also dreading it because he's my one & only, so my nursing days will be over and that makes me sad.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

rebecca, that sounds so lovely. i'll have to check out the book. i'm still working on my issues even though intellectually and on a good day emotionally i know that saying yes i much easier than saying no. the mess is the same whether i dislike it or not! i really liked the book, the five love languages of children for this reason, that it make me realize that i wanted my kids to feel loved and that it was most important.


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## Mama2ABCD (Jun 14, 2003)

mornings are definitely our family time. haven't used an alarm clock since my first child was born. after i feed the baby, she usually sits in my lap laying back against my knees (i'm on my back with knees bent), while my two boys nurse. those are my favorite moments.

and at night, i can usually get the oldest to wait before he nurses (so he can stay up later) while he waits for his brother and sis to nurse.

it's the afternoons that can be tricky. if Cali (baby) gets a good feeding, i can set her on the floor in front of me while she exercises and i nurse my ds's. but, if we've been out and they all are tired and cranky, it's a little tricky deciding which boy goes first. baby gets first billing, i've drilled that into their heads the whole time i was pregnant.

Mom23 (and other moms who nursed 3) how did you handle the bottleneck? and also nutrition, i'm finding i'm the one getting sick and taking a long time to get over it. i keep telling myself that it's normal, i have a huge demand on my body, and that it too will pass.

i enjoy nursing 3, i look forward to the bonding the first 2 will have with the 3rd. it does get trying at times, but i can't bear the thought of asking the eldest to quit. we've talked about him weaning at 5, as he thinks he can drive a car then. but, the other day when he said he would wean at 16....? somehow he associates a drivers license with weaning?!!!


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

How did I handle the bottleneck? Hmmmm...we talked a lot about what triandem nursing was going to be like before Haley was born. The boys knew that the youngest gets first dibs. From there they came to the conclusion that since Zachary is younger than Alexander, that he would get to go first, so there was no arguing! There were times that Alex wanted to go first, and sometimes Zachary would let him. There was a time when all three were sick that everyone needed to nurse often and it did get a little crazy. We found that an egg timer worked out great. The nursling who was waiting would get to hold the egg timer, watch the sand go down, flip it over, watch the sand go down again, and then it would be his turn to nurse. Often he would just keep flipping it and flipping it because he was fascinated with it! :LOL

As far as mama getting sick ... to me that was a signal that I needed to take better care of myself. Nursing three is a big strain on your body, and you need to stay healthy. I found that simply increasing the amount of water I was drinking greatly improved my health. I also learned to listen to my cravings ... not to always give in to them (especially when craving the bad stuff!) but to pay attention to what I was craving and what nutrients that food contained that I might need.


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

Cranberry - I feel as you do since my son is my only. I think that's why I'm letting him wean himself.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Do any of you have noticable odor from your armpits, that is more "spicey" than before breastfeeding?

Two of my friends who are breastfeeding toddlers have this as do I and I was wondering if anyone else has noticed this as well.

I use a cystal and it works, I don't mind the smell, its just different.

Okay thats probably enough info heh?


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## padomi (Dec 28, 2002)

Hi! I'm chiming in here if it's okay. Not sure if we count as past toddlerhood yet, since dd turned 2 just yesterday. But she's been very verbal for a long time now, so I feel like we're way past toddlerhood. A few months ago, she named my boobs and started talking to them. She even gives them eskimo kisses (nose to nipple) which is very cute. BM is a very big part of her calories still - she's got to be the most finacky eater ever. Some days she simply won't eat anything and wants to nurse often. Sometimes she snacks alot on real food and only has "bah bah" (she still calls them that even though she could say "boobie" a long time ago) in the morning and at naptime and at night.

One benefit to still nursing her is that it's very hot here this time of year, and if we're out and she gets thirsty and we're without water, she can have bm. Very reassuring.

After 2 years, nursing her has become so natural, almost instinctive. I don't even think consciously about it anymore. She says "bah bah", I lift my shirt and pull my boob out of my bra, she climbs on my lap and latches on - it all happens seemlessly.

The best thing is that lately she's been saying "Mama, I love your boobies." or "Mama, I love bah bah juice."

Now that's excellent!







I plan to nurse her for as long as she wants it. I have never had one negative feeling about nursing. I sometimes think I was born to nurse. Even if my boobies are looking a little droopy these days, well, a lot droopy, my little girl loves them!


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## mommy2three (Apr 6, 2003)

I think I already posted here but wanted to say that my guy turned 2 last week!!!! Ok, I know...that's not really EB since he's only 2 but I plan on him nursing for a long time still (that is, if he makes it through this no milk spell until the baby comes...) He tries to nurse every couple of days and everytime I tell him that the milk will be coming back soon so I think that's helping him hold on... I can't wait to see his face the first time he gets a mouthful of milk again after my milk comes back in when the baby is born!!!! Isn't it funny the things you look forward to! But I do think about how happy he'll be that first time









I'll be tandem nursing my handsome guy and his baby sister when she comes and can't wait!!! I tried to tandem nurse my preemie twins when they were born but failed miserably







but now I feel like an expert nurser and can't wait to share this experience with my 2 year old and his baby sister!!!

Thanks so much for being such inspirations to me!!!!


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## Mama2ABCD (Jun 14, 2003)

thanks Amanda for the tips. i can see where the hourglass would fascinate a child (it fascinates me!)

i'm a huge water advocate, but when you drink a lot it's easy to get behind. i just started filling up 4-5 mason jars of water in the morning and keep by the sink (this started because we keep losing our power everytime a storm rolls thru and our well is on an electric pump...) that way i can just grab one or have someone else bring me one thru the day, etc. i fill the jar up as soon as i'm done and start over again.

but i'm bad at remembering to eat. i guess being pregnant you have to or you get sick (that's how i was) so when your not pregnant it's nice not to be nauseated so i find it very easy to skip meals. i've been keeping nuts and raisins on hand and berries so that i can grab a handful and go. but, i'm very aware i need to be more vigilant about eating complete meals. and your right, good nutrition is the key to staying healthy.


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

If anything this will help you with custody. All you need to do is post a request for help collecting citations for the positive aspects of EB and have your lawyer give these to the judge.

If there is a LLL near you perhaps a leader or lactation specialist who is knowledgeable and supportive of EB can testify if required.

Co-sleeping is not that unusual and many who say they didn't are now admitting to it since it isn't so taboo. Even my mom finally admitted that my sister still climbed in bed with them when she was 3 and they just snuggled her in with them. That was in 1965!








I am sorry about the nasty divorce and hope it gets better for you very soon. You and your son are in the right place for support. Can I ask what state you live in?


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

I love New Hampshire!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

If the judge isn't into sustained breastfeeding, he might very well create a problem for her. My aunt went through an ugly divorce, and the judge ordered her to stop co-sleeping.


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## Mama2ABCD (Jun 14, 2003)

Jennifer, so sorry that you and your son have to go thru this awful time. I'm glad you are still nursing your son.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

That's so strange to me that someone can use things like breastfeeding and cosleeping as _negative_ leverage against a mother. Those are _positive_ things that should sway anyone in favor of a mother. It shows how much she cares and is in touch with her child. I feel sorry for anyone who can turn that into a negative, especially a father if he truly cares about his child. How sad







.

Jennifer, I would definitely get in touch with LLL. http://www.lalecheleague.org They seem to be up on the latest legal info and I bet they could give you some valuable help. Good luck.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Bump!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

ok, I have a situation that I'd like to share, which really disturbed me.

Yesterday I was out with a Mama friend and her ds, same age as my ds (nearly 2.5yrs) and still breastfeeding.

Well, my ds took a little tumble on some stairs (he's ok) but it scared him and of course he wanted to nurse. When he was crying the other ds came over to see if he was all right, and then walked away. When my ds stopped crying and decided to nurse (his biggest source of comfort! he says "nurse makes me feel better") he wanted the other ds to see that he was nursing. He said, "nurse and [name] watch me nurse" so I related that message to the Mama and her child. This was my ds' way of telling them that he was feeling better. But the other Mama looked shocked and said "that is totally inappropriate" and whisked her ds away.

This really surprised me. Well, I wanted to go home (I was hungry) but ds wanted to go with the other mama, her ds, and a third mama and ds to the playground, so we did. After 1/2 hour we were getting ready to go, and ds wanted to nurse for a minute before getting into his stroller. Well, my mama friend kept her distance from us with her ds, but he still decided to come see what we were doing, and was all smiles and walked right up to us to watch ds nurse. And why not??? I saw nothing wrong with it. (and in no way did I try to lure him over) I smiled at him and said hi. Well this really upset the other mama, who was apparently trying to tell her ds that he couldn't nurse until they got home.

A couple of hours later she sent the most vicious email to me with all sorts of accusations about how I was trying to undermine her and be controlling etc. etc. and that I was acting in the most inappropriate way, etc. etc. She was also upset about something that happened a couple of days earlier - my ds used a public potty for the first time in his life, and we were so excited that we shared the news with them. Well, to her this was also completely inappropriate. In her email she was saying that I was oozing with anxiety about potty training and trying to transfer it to her son. All sorts of other stuff was said. I was totally shocked!

She is the one who generally pursues my company more than I hers. I've considered her a good friend since my son was born, when we met. Now I don't think we can be friends anymore!


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

AdrianneWe, what a sad and ugly experience. This other mama obviously has some hang-ups she is trying to transfer to you.


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

We only nurse at home but I think it's because ds, just 4, doesn't think about it in public. I would be a bit anxious if he asked and we were out of the county. He is a very big 4 yr old - looks 6. Santa Cruz is fairly receptive. I was so thrilled to see a mom nursing her 2? yr old dd sitting down on the floor at Target last night.

It sounds like she just does things differently from you and hasn't developed the confidence to respond well yet. My first reaction is to react and blast back but then thankfully I can backspace or delete until I reach the place of inconditional love to try to understand her needs. This can be so HARD to do.

I'm sure you'll find the right words to respond, if you even want to, to her mail. Sometimes emails and posts bite us later! I like the phone for this stuff because it's closer but still safer than face to face. I wonder what would happen if you did nothing...


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

AdrianneWe: I am so sorry that you experienced a situation that felt confusing and unsupportive. It sounds like you feel that the choices you made were neutral at worst and that you felt your choices were positive, so you were surprised and confused by your friend's reaction. It also sounds like you had anticipated support from her and are saddened by the angry response you received instead. All told, I hear you saying that you are disappointed because you thought that you had a certain kind of friend in this person and her recent behavior has been inconsistent with your expectations and needs. It sounds like you would like to approach her to find out what is really going on behind her anger but that her response was so unexpected and hurtful that you are not sure that you feel you can trust her to engage in a nourishing relationship going forward.

For me, it is deeply saddening to experience a negative reaction or criticism of choices that I make in my mothering that are 100% about giving to my son (like nursing him until he weans himself). It is difficult for me to get past my own pain to see the pain behind the other person's angry response. When it is a friend who is unsupportive, it is even more painful.

Sending support and positive thoughts your way. I'm really sorry that you are having to deal with this. I hope that working through it proves to be a process of expanding and moving forward for you, if not for your friendship.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

thanks guys









I did respond to her email. Ironically, she said in her email that it was not the best way to communicate, but that was the method she chose. She could have picked up the phone, but maybe she felt she could communicate better in writing (I sometimes feel this way) although her message to me was very mean and angry, with a lot of all-cap words (yelling).

Anyway, I responded as evenly as I could, without calling names or making judgements, just explaining my position.

Her response to my second email was even more viscious, saying things like "I feel so sorry for your ds in how you mother him" and that he seems like such a sad boy, and that I am totally selfish and controlling and manipulating and pushy, and that her ds doesn't like playing with us for very long bc I ooze negative energy.

Hey, she is the one who pursues our friendship more than I do!

My response to her second email was basically "if that's the way you feel, why do we get together?"

I haven't heard from her since yesterday's last email from me.

My dh thinks she is being 1) passive aggressive 2) projecting herself on me and 3) not worth the trouble; I have many other friends.

Here is a new twist: I got a phone call from a mutual friend who said she got a blind-copy of the email!!! That made me feel even worse! I mean, after the whole playground incident, I wanted to talk to her about it even before she emailed me, but I never would have considered dragging mutual friends into the conversation!!!

As for breastfeeding in public or not, I never make any judgements on anyone's decision to be open or modest or closeted or whatever about it (but I am known to encourage Mama's to not worry about bfing in public







) I met her at LLL and she and our mutual friends are pretty well attached parents who all breastfed and so on, and so of all people to hold such major disdain in my uninhibited approach to public breastfeeding she is one who would shock me more than others.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Adrianne

She sounds kinda twisted and confusing to me







. She breastfeeds her ds but doesn't think you should (in public, in private, what's the difference, it's still breastfeeding), and she is threatened by her ds seeing your ds nurse (even though he nurses too, albeit in private)







. She is offended by your ds using the potty and you sharing your excitement with her







. She sends you a negative "inappropriate" email but then says that you are too negative and inappropriate to hang around for very long







....but she initiates getting together. And then she forwards these emails to your friends







:.

Who needs enemies.... She doesn't sound like a friend.

I had a "friend" that did something like that to me a few years ago. It was after a playdate (at my house) where she was super rude to me and dd. She sent me nasty emails, but I made the mistake of emailing nasty stuff back







. She emailed one of my friends pleading her to not be friends with me. Then she moved back to Canada. I don't miss our friendship but I do regret joining in the ugliness when I should have just sat on it and let it cool.

That's so sad that you are having to take the brunt of her insecurities. Too bad she can't just relax and enjoy motherhood. Good thing your real friends are sticking up for you (by telling you what she did, etc.). Stay positive, it's not your problem. If she's a real friend she'll realize what she's done sooner or later and see that her insecurities got the best of her.


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

What do your parenting decisions have to do with her???


















It is a shock when someone you thought of as a friend suddenly turns on you, hurts too.


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

I hope you all weather this thing. We've been lucky in our mommy group and we still get together every month or so. I am not really talking to one of them because she and her dh bailed on my HMO (he was our PCP) without telling us and then billed us for a visit by dh and never really just told us. They sort of ignored us... more strangeness with her than this so...

We can only be ourselves but it helps to know when we are supported by our friends!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Not that it really matters, but I wonder if it was the NIP itself or the situation of her wanting her ds to wait and breastfeed at home and you breastfeeding your ds in front of her ds and her ds being jealous. This normally wouldn't occur to me, except that it reminded me of an ugly scene I recently had with my SIL over the fact that she doesn't let her kids have juice with their meals, and I do let my dd have juice with her meal, and they were all sitting at the same table, and my dd got juice and they didn't, and they got jealous and thought they should get juice if she did and it wasn't fair, and she basically accused me of undermining and sabotaging her.

Any way, if I received emails like the ones you described, I don't think I would want to have contact with the person any more.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Yeah, I think my friendship with her is officially over, but it will be awkward when we get together with mutual friends.

I think the biggest issue here was my "inappropriate behavior" in her eyes. It seems to me that what set her off was when my ds wanted her ds to know and observe that he was breastfeeding (his way of feeling better after boo boos). And the next offense (after the potty incident) was her feeling that I was undermining her parenting by "distracting" her ds.

So here is my question, Mamas: do you allow/invite/encourage other children/people to witness your dc bfing? I never thought about it before. But yesterday, when ds said he wanted the other boy to know he was nursing, I didn't see anything wrong with that. Generally, we just nurse whenever ds wants/needs to (unless it's just not possible). He has always nursed in front of other children - children who either were never breastfed, or are breastfeeding, or are weaned from breastfeeding. No other mother has ever complained to me about it.


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

I've never had that happen that DD, or DS back in the day, said anything about wanting some other kid to see or know they were nursing. When DD was a baby, I nursed her wherever whenever and I did have a 3? year old child of a friend ask "Why is she eating you?" Her mother, who had nursed her, answered her question quite nicely.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

It sounds like you're wondering whether you really were out of line or whether your son's wish to share his joy in nursing with his playmate might really be inappropriate. I personally do not think so, but I'm pretty freaking liberal (I look 'normal,' but ummm, I'm not like my neighbors!).

My son hasn't wanted others to watch him nursing, but other kids have watched us nursing and he's fine with it, and he's been interested to see his playmates nursing when they do. Nursing is a really big deal to my son -- it's a huge bonding thing for him -- so this doesn't really surprise me. I also nurse in public without much worry (except for, say, physical/safety limitations).

It really sounds to me like your friend has some deep issues that were simply triggered by your choices. As I said in my previous post, it sounds to me like she is experiencing pain that is coming out sideways (as I like to put it) at you. If you're interested in salvaging the friendship, you might try responding to her with empathy or active listening to see if she lets the pain out for viewing so that you can get down to the deeper issue here for the benefit of you, your friend, your kids, and your mutual friends (and their kids).

Good luck!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
My dh thinks she is being 1) passive aggressive 2) projecting herself on me and 3) not worth the trouble; I have many other friends.









I couldn't agree more.

I'm sorry you had to deal with this Adrianne









You've already received great advice. I just wanted to echo that I, personally, would end the friendship and to give you another







. That situation would've really upset me.









__________________________________________________ ____

Also, just wanted to say







everyone. I've been gone a lot and have missed you all.







My older nursling is pushing 3 1/2 and loves her Mai Mai's more than ever and my little nursling will be a year old in one week!







I can't believe it.









Oh, and WHERE is Mom4tot??


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Thank you so much, Mamas, for all of your great advice and responses. I didn't expect my post to get so much attention! I appreciate it.

This is the very first time my ds has ever asked for anyone to see him nurse.
I'm sure that his intention was to communicate that he was feeling better, not that he wanted someone to inspect his latch or anything :LOL (can I joke about this when it was such an awful experience!!!)


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

But seriously, if I can say one more thing...

It's hard enough to maintain my integrity as a nursing mother to a (very large) toddler, let alone to receive disdainful remarks from a good friend who is also breastfeeding a same-age toddler.

Now I find myself reflecting on all the other times ds nursed in front of other kids. For instance, a friend's dd who is 6 months older but only nursed until 12 months often sees ds nursing when we get together. She comes up close, peers at him, and asks "what's he doing?" and both I and her mother tell her about it. No big deal.

Same thing with another friend who has a ds the same age but only nursed 15 months...


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

MamaAllNatural, I think Joan is on vacation.....hopefully she'll be back with us soon.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Hi everyone!

I had an interesting situation happen this past month I thought I would share, get some feedback on etc.

My close friend weaned her boy directly after his 2 year birthday. My dd is almost three and we (my friend and I) got on the topic of weaning. I said I was going to follow dd's cues with regards to that and wean at a slow pace.

She indicated to me that I needed to start talking to dd about this process and get it underway. I really respect this woman but felt that her words of advice were really misplaced.

I did however bring the concept to dd a few times just to see her reaction. I said that everything comes to an end and that so does booby. That one day she would not have booby any more. She over the course of about 5 days became defiant and starting running away from me in public and not listening. She also began to nurse nonstop. It was incredible. So while we were out in the bush this past week, I came to realize that her new found defience was related to this conversation I had with her. So I had another indicating that we will figure out the booby together at our own pace. Her happy peaceful mood and agreeable nature came back almost immediately. Now she is back to nursing about 4 -5 times a day like the way it was before.

I just needed to come back here and commisserate with my like minded mamas. I can see that I am in different territory IRL now. I assume more and more woman will come out of the woodwork (STS) to give me their two cents on how I am damaging dd by extended BFing. Some have even said I am Bfing her for my own selfish needs.

Anyhow, nice to see this thread alive again!


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## Mama2ABCD (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:

Some have even said I am Bfing her for my own selfish needs








: i don't like it when people resort to that comment!

Keep on doing what is best for your dd, mountainmom!!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Wow Mountain Mom, sorry this happened to you.


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## ajsmom (Nov 21, 2001)

That's how it was for us with toilet training! Ds said he would NEVER wear pull-ups, use the toilet or underwear if I pressed him to move things along before he was ready. He used the big throne with insert for the first time 2 nights ago (2 am!) and now LOVES pull-ups.

With nursing and toilet training I have left it up to him and I am so happy this way. But, this place is THE place for support for me with EBF. DH is very supportive, family says nothing, HMO doc said wean wean wean so I can finally kick thrush. The world has no clue because we only nurse at sleep time or in bed.

My closest mommy friend is complaining right now because her 14 mo old dd doesn't NEED to nurse, she just wants to (duh!) and it's "bugging" my friend. I just smile and she says, "I know this is no big deal for you but we're just different." Very different on many fronts so we come here!

I never thought I'd be nursing a 4 year old boy who loves construction, cheetahs, trains AND "Mommy milk!"


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

mountain mom, Your post really struck a flash down memory lane with me. I've been in that position before too. Except it was dh's advice that influenced me to bring it up with dd. This happened when she was around 2, then around 3, then again at 6....all those times I went through a period of panick (questioning myself and dd's instincts) and felt very alone. DH just didn't know any better, and we didn't know anyone IRL who breastfed as long as we were, so I think it really scared him.

Dd always reacted with crying and sadness. Nursing meant so much to her that it scared her to think of having it taken away by the very person whom she trusted most in the World. And it hurt me so much to see her so sad. This period of my uncertainty never lasted more than a few days....I still nursed her but talked to her about weaning before nursing, which would make her nurse more and would make me worry more (oh the troubles other's advice can bring, huh). Those were very long painful days. As soon as I'd get my sense back, everything was okay again. I wish I had learned my lesson the first time, and I wish I had the support of MDC then (I did at 6, which helped tremendously), I'm just glad I never totally gave in. I'm so glad we ultimately continued until she was ready.

I think that we all go through stuff like this, where we take in the advice of others whom we respect so much, we lose ourselves for a while, and in turn the advice really messes us up (at least for a while).


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

Mountain Mama, I am sorry that your friend unloaded unsolicited advice on you that ended up interfering (briefly, fortunately) with your life and your daughter's. It's great that you recognized its impact, though, and addressed the situation with your daughter. I hope you feel proud of yourself after the withering experience!

I find unsolicited advice to be so difficult, especially in parenting! I'm sometimes tempted to offer it, but I try to do so only if the other person asks. I might offer my own experience, unsolicited, but that is totally different from telling somebody what they should do.

In mothering, the only decisions I've ever really regretted deeply are those I made against my own instinct. I've only done it a few times, because I recognized how awful it felt and why. Anyway, I agree, Mother Sunshine, those are the worst.

I'll tell ya', I'm fortunate to live in a very liberal part of the US, but even here, I anticipate discomfort before long. Amazingly, my relatives in the Midwest are acting (at least to our faces) totally cool about it, but they're sure that it's best for me to wean my son now that I'm pregnant. Another opportunity to educate! Incidentally, I was SO proud of my mom, who responded immediately (I wasn't there) by saying I had no plans to wean and she was sure I'd discussed it with my doctors and that there was no problem with nursing while pregnant. Gotta love having a supportive family.


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## Angierae (Aug 17, 2004)

Mountain Mom, I had a similar thing happen with my 3 year old dd right after dd2 was born. My own mother, who has always supported BFing, told her that BFing was just for the new baby and that she was too big for it--on the day the baby was born! Talk about instant sibling rivalry. My mom knew I was planning to tandem nurse, and even watched me nurse both girls together in my bed 30 min after giving birth! While I was recovering from labor and my mom was watching dd and told her that without me knowing it. DD started acting so strange and screaming every time I nursed the baby. Finally dd told me what grandma said and I was able to reassure her that BFing was still for her. She has since told me she plans to nurse until she has her own babies. If that happens I think I might be tempted to listen to ANY advice!!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angierae*
My own mother, who has always supported BFing, told her that BFing was just for the new baby and that she was too big for it--on the day the baby was born!


















Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angierae*
She has since told me she plans to nurse until she has her own babies.

:LOL How cute!









BTW Angierae


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Thanks to all of you that responded so eloquently in support of my post.

Things have improved for us. It was just a brief time where dd was not herself. She seems to have forgotten last week and we are back to our regular rythym.

My relationship with dd is so subtle and intuitive. I think any grand statements of intent is going against the grain for us.

I think my method of dealing with unwanted advice is to smile and nod. My Mom asked today if we had weaned and I explained how we both are not ready. I explained that all the other methods of parenting that dh and I utilize are ones of a gentle and patient manner. She then said in a loving way that I was never one to choose the path most walked!

After my conversation I realized that my friend who encouraged me to begin the weaning process also allowed her child to cry himself to sleep during this process. This to me is an epiphany of realization of how different our parenting techniques are. I just could not allow dd to cry and weep in sorrow without helping her. I do not have it within me.

Thanks again for all your support...I am sure I will be back often!


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

One of the joys of nursing an older child is hearing commentary on the taste of the milk! Ds and I used to joke about which side had "brown" milk. Well, last night he informed me that both sides just had plain milk. I asked him if it was as good as soymilk, and he said not quite, but almost. So then I asked him if he just wanted a cup of soymilk at night, and he said "no". It was that simple for my little 4yo (soon to be 5yo!)!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Dd used to say my milk tasted like ice cream.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

my milk tastes like "a BIG almond milk!"


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

My mamamilk tastes like "sweet love" according to my two year old. She, of course, had to have a sample when I asked her the question.









My 4 year old nursling says that mamamilk tastes "like warm cuddly sweet milk"


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

sad and a little OT: a friend of mine said her son has just weaned, and she never got around to tasting the breastmilk, and doesn't expect to have any more children after the two she already has. Don't know if this is sad about tasting the bm or about the weaning, maybe more meloncholy, but she did mention that it would have been interesting to taste it and now she can't.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

I've never tasted my breastmilk. Is it really that interesting? Well, now that I'm pregnant it might taste different anyway?


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I just remember the one time way back when ds was a few months old I tasted it and it was incredibly sweet and smooth tasting. No wonder he's addicted to it!


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
a friend of mine said her son has just weaned, and she never got around to tasting the breastmilk

Also out there...... If she "just" weaned couldn't she pump and get a little milk flowing to taste it?


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

well, her son was down to once a day and she was pretty sure that there wasn't much there, which probably prompted him to abandon breastfeeding. but you're right, she probably could pump something out....


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