# Is nursing to sleep "bad"?



## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I've been reading alot of posts lately from people who regret that they always nursed their baby to sleep. This would "seem" to go against the grain of standard AP practices, so I thought maybe it was worth discussing (not in the sense of whether it is "AP" or not, but how common this is, how much it represents the norm of the AP experience, etc.).

My DD has almost always nursed to sleep. However, there were phases when she was about 1 - 6 months old where that wouldn't work and we would rock/dance with her to sleep. She also was almost always amenable to being put down once she was asleep (she has always unlatched herself when she is out), give or take a few brief phases of napping-in-arms.

These days, even though we are working on nightweaning, I still nurse to sleep and love it. It's a nice break for me. If DD is truly ready for sleep (which I'm usually able to discern), then it's a "no nonsense" session. She lays down with me, snuggles up, latches on, and it rarely takes more than 15 minutes, usually less than that, before she is out and either she unlatches herself or I can pop the nipple out without waking her. Then I get up and go about my evening.

So for us, nursing to sleep has never been a "problem". In fact, it's a tool that makes my life much easier. I'm tired in the evening, and can barely muster up the strength for bathtime, let alone read stories, massages, and all that jazz. It's so relaxing to just lie down with her and rest with no talking.

So what has been your experience? Are people who have problems with nursing to sleep a minority? Would YOU encourage a new mama to nurse to sleep? Is it a "bad habit" or a gentle, easy tool for gentle bedtimes?

Discuss!


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

I always nursed my babies to sleep, always. I found it an easy way to get them to sleep, and quite peacefully for a while.

Even when i gave a bottle (of either ebm or formula), they were always rocked and held and fed to sleep.

I dont regret it and wouldnt discourage it. i never had half the battles my friends did. I also feel that it didnt affect the 'sleeping through the night" deal. My daughter took the longest, but my third was the fastes, 6 weeks and would sleep from 10p to 6 am....with no prompting from me, he just did it. all i had to do was lift up my shirt, lay down with him, or sit in the rocking chair, and he would nurse himself to sleep. and stay that way till 6am!

My middle child was just like that, the only difference being he slept through the night at 4 months.


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## Ms.Doula (Apr 3, 2003)

Both.

YES I would encorage a new mother to do this, because I also advocate Co-sleeping.

But, I can see the "other side" too, if you will.

My 20 mo. dd is still night nursing (usually jusst once) and I am so Tired & touched out at the end of the day- If I can calm myself enough to lie down & nurse her, I will fall asleep too!! -why I sit to do it on the puter most times-(If I lie down & fall asleep, then nothing gets done. Night time is my only REAL free time, KWIM?)

Not to mention the once in a while that we do get to Go "OUT" It is so hard on the caregiver watching them... My lil one ususally fusses & gropes & fights the woman caring for her, being walked, patted, rocked ect. untill she falls asleep....

My real _issue_ is in the middle of the night (especially when its a frequent "all nighter"/NurseFest) and She wakes up and I have to nurse her back to sleep. If I try patting her or soothing her ANY other way..... she just getts VIOLENTLY PISSED OFF!! And ends up more awake than she orrigionally was.









I do wish there was a middle ground.
The whole nightweanin thing sounds lovely-Im jealous!

<SIIIIIIGGGGHHHH>








"This too shall pass..."


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## my-j-angel (May 10, 2004)

My baby is only 4 months old but I nurse him to sleep everynight and at every nap time. I hope it's not a bad thing b/c it's so simple to put him down by nursing.


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## MamaE (May 1, 2004)

I also consider nursing to sleep a wonderful tool that I have. I have done it since birth, though now my dd generally prefers to be sling-nursed, then sling-danced to sleep. I'll continue to sling-nurse and sling-dance her to sleep until my back can't take it or until my dd lets me know she doesn't need it anymore.

I have to say, though, that I've gotten some raised eyebrows when I say I nurse or sling to sleep (even when I said this at 6 months!). I guess some think that by nursing to sleep you are creating a dependency. The other moms I know have gotten their dhs involved in bedtime from very early on. I have put my dd to bed almost every night since birth (except in the early days when she would still allow dh to sling her to sleep - can anyone say total mama's girl??).

I say, why not nurse to sleep? A babe is only a babe for a very short time. At 13 months, I wonder where the time has gone with my dd. I hope to be able to nurse her for many more months (years) to come.


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## Colorful~Mama (Feb 20, 2003)

I'm actually on my third nursed to sleep child and have recently started to unlatch him and let him fall asleep on his own, not on the nipple. He is 10mo old and woke no less then 8 times last night... needing to nurse back to sleep each time. I'm getting too old for this lol and am ready to try something new. We're going to try this and see if we can't use some methods from some sleep books i've read to find new ways of helping our baby fall and stay asleep.

so as much as i believe that nursing to sleep is a lovely thing, i don't know if i'd "recommend" it. My take on attachment parenting is that you listen to and follow YOUR childs cues, instead of reading a book or following someone elses advice for their baby/ies. For me, my first was nursed to sleep. My second was nursed to sleep and at almost 4 dh still needs to lay with her every night till she falls asleep. not a bad thing of course, and dh loves his time with her (and the nap he gets) - big sister is now learning to lay with her till she falls asleep and gramma did it for the first time last weekend as well.

i think there it is a-ok if there comes a time where some mamas wish their baby/infant/toddler could fall asleep on their own with someone (me , dh, big sis, gramma) rubbing his back and whispering 'shhhhhhhhhh' to him.

cuz again, to me ap is not about doing things a certain way really - its about doing things based on your childs needs and your needs as the parent. Roman is different then his sisters were and I am a different mama then i was with them ...so together he and I will discover what sleep routine will work best for us. Right now I'm hoping that we'll get to the point of 1-2 nightwakings using the 'you dont' need to nurse every time you wake up' techniques.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Well I don't think there is a simple yes or no response to this question. I still nurse 17.5 mo ds to sleep for naps and nights in the sling. It takes less than 15 mins and often only 5, the result of which is a toddler who goes down easily for both nights and naps (of course staying asleep is a whole different story) We start out with nursing and then after a few mins. I offer him a :binky which he takes easily. So for us it has more to do with the motion of the sling, I think than actual nursing. But if I nurse him down in bed only the breast will do. I sing to him and sway while we're sling-nursing and I feel like this loving and gentle rhythm and sleep routine will be encoded somewhere in his cellular body...YK mama's voice, smell and so forth as he drifts off. He will go to sleep with dh if he sings to him and holds him but it takes a long time and he usually has to be pretty tired. So I'll continue to sling-nurse for as long as it continues to satisfy both of us.


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

I would totally recommend it - I don't see what is bad about it. DD nursed to sleep until just after she turned 2, when she weaned altogether (mommy-nudged but mostly on her own), so I'm thinking that it's just ridiculous to think that your child will necessarily have problems later on because of nursing to sleep. My son, who is 2.5 now, recently nightweaned but still nurses to get to sleep, and I don't forsee any problems with him either. Nursing to sleep has been, for the most part (minus a few week-or-so-long exceptions) a fast, easy way to get the kids peacefully sleeping with very little effort from me. And I've been able to tell when they were going to start weaning, because they would pop off while still awake, resettle to snuggle, and then fall asleep. For both of my kids, this was the first step in drastically reducing their bfing. In fact, I think my kids were more able to give up their other nursing sessions because they knew that it would be available at bedtime, for that all-important cuddle and comfort session.


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## Elana (May 18, 2004)

I think that nursing babies to sleep is great for babies, and easy for mommies, but anybody who decides to go this way, has to be aware of the fact that it's long-term. It could last till age 2 or 3. Children will learn how to fall asleep themselves, but if we run out of patience, before they learn and *need* them to sleep more on their own, we get stuck.

Sooooooooooooooo, I think that some babies are high needs and really need the closeness, and therefore it's easier to just nurse them and enjoy the peace and quiet. Better to enjoy being a mommy and deal with the changing needs when they show up. Other babies are willing to do without the never-ending nursing and they can be taught to sleep at an earlier age.


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

I'm inclined to think that night-time parenting is going to last AT LEAST until age 4, and any decision I make is based on the expectation that whatever method I use, it will involve being very active in the bedtime rituals of my children until at least age 4. Perhaps my opinion on nursing to sleep is skewed by that - I can't imagine expecting a child younger than 4 or so to just walk off, get themselves ready for bed, lie down, and fall asleep without me. I'd just as soon nurse a child to sleep until whatever age they are ready to forego that - better that than reading 30 stories a night trying to get the child to wind down (they wind down so much faster while nursing...). I also make the assumption that most other parents on this site, being very much opposed to CIO, realize that they will be involved in the falling-asleep ritual for the long haul. So I kind of made my previous post based on the assumption that we all on this website realize we are in it for the long haul (even though for me, that was just barely past 2 years for DD and probably won't last till 3 for DS - a short amount of their lifespan IMO).


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## pageta (Nov 17, 2003)

I nurse to sleep - my philosophy is "Do whatever works." DH, on the other hand, doesn't nurse ds to sleep (OF COURSE!). I work in the evenings so DH puts ds to bed most of the time. So we've found more than one method of getting ds to go to sleep.

I think the key is having options. If you always nurse to sleep, then one day when you don't want to nurse to sleep but that is the only way your child is accustomed to going to sleep, then you have a problem. There are days when I am not in the mood to nurse ds to sleep, so DH takes him. Then he gets tired of ds and I try again. It's nice having options. Otherwise I can see how I would easily get frustrated.


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## arratt (Apr 24, 2004)

I agree with pageta. I dont think there is anything wrong with nursing to sleep-my dd is 2.5yo and still nurses to sleep every nap and every night. BUT I wish we had used other methods of getting her to sleep starting when she was younger(rocking, rubbing back, singing, reading, etc) because it is so hard for anyone else to get her to sleep-even dh, which makes it extremely difficult for us (esp me) to do things when it is time for her to sleep/nap.
Shannon


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

When DC was nursing I always nursed to sleep. IMO, there is nothing wrong/"bad" with it at all. I don’t think I've ever been told not to nurse to sleep (although I was told not to rock to sleep but I don't think that was good advice). No, I don't think it's a bad habit so yes, I would encourage a new mother to nurse to sleep. I can totally relate, though, with wishing that there were some ways to comfort an older child to sleep.


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## 3 Little Monkeys (Mar 13, 2003)

We have also always been of the "whatever works" philosophy. I am CONSTANTLY being told that I need to stop nursing or laying down with my children to get them to go to sleep. I feel that the few minutes spent nursing or lying with them to get them to sleep is much easier than letting them fuss or cry for hours and not go to sleep at all KWIM? I don't nurse dd3 (6 months) to sleep - but that is because SHE doesn't go to sleep while nursing. I will nurse her, put her in her crib and she falls asleep on her own, but if she didn't fall asleep on her own, I would nurse her down.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I have mixed feelings, so far. On the one hand, it's fun and sweet. One of my coworkers said, "He just wants to fall asleep with a nipple in his mouth" and I said, "that's okay, I have one of those!"

But on the other hand, it's hard for him to sleep any other way and he has trouble sleeping anywhere but the bed.


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## slightly crunchy (Jul 7, 2003)

I have mixed feelings, too.

For me, it works. But it was two years before my DH could ever help with bedtime in any way. And since ds has been a sleep-fighter at different times, it has been frustrating to me to be the only one to get him to sleep. I actually feel very lucky that my dh can occasionally help parent ds to sleep now, as I figured it would be a couple more years.

And naptimes for the first year were sometimes hard. I can't tell you how many times I got stuck in a parking out somewhere when ds would nurse to sleep and it was sometimes next to impossible to get him into the carseat without him screaming and groping for the nipple.

I wouldn't encourage a mom to depend on nursing to sleep, and if she has a baby that will accept other methods of getting to sleep, I would say to work on those. But for us, I don't see how I could have done it any differently. Ds was fussy as a baby and nursed all the time, and he always wanted to nurse to sleep even from very early on. I was never able to put him down after falling asleep, either, no matter what I tried. So, I think some kids must need it.


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## Divaostrich (Feb 19, 2004)

I have been nursing my Dd to sleep since day 1. She is now 22 months. As a whole I love it and it is a very gentle way to help her to sleep. I would recommend this method to new mommies as other babies seem to still be able to go to sleep other ways too.

My Dd has not been able to go to sleep any other way than nursing w/out many many tears, cries, screams (NEVER alone!!). We tried, Dh and I, helping her to sleep w/out nursing, but after four days gave up, b/c it was not gentle and definitely not peaceful.

My reasons for trying to find a new approach are: My Dh would sincerely like to be able to help her to go to sleep, we would like to be able to (not the biggest deal of goal, but would be nice) be out at nap or night time and have grandma help her go to sleep, and we are currently TTC #2 and it will be hard to nurse one to sleep.....and what the heck do you do with newbie while toddler nurses to sleep?? (open to advice on that one).

I'd be all for letting her nurse to sleep until she weans herself from it, but when we have another baby I just don't see that as being the best solution.

I don't mind nursing her to sleep. She initially goes to sleep on futon mattress by our bed and it takes 25-45 min(bedtime is about 8:30). most nights and after about 10-15 min I am able to read a book until she lets go of my nipple and I slip out (we co-sleep btw). She sleeps until about 2am and gets into bed w/ us and nursed back to sleep. She wakes up again around 5-6am, then gets up between 7-8am. Thats a normal night.

So a future child I will probably stray from having nursing to sleep being the sole way my child can go to sleep. My goal is to have that child be able to go to sleep with my Dh helping them too. So, I don't think that it is necessarily un-AP if you don't nurse them to sleep, but that you are helping them to sleep in some way is AP, not forcing them to soothe themselves.


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## chellemarie (Jan 17, 2003)

If it's bad to nurse to sleep, we're in big trouble over here. Not only does my almost-16mo nurse to sleep, he nurses in order to sleep a couple times a night. I'm away from him several hours during the day, so he'll probably nurse all night until he's 37.

If I'm away at bedtime (rarely), my dh will hold him and rock him. Sometimes ds isn't hip to this, but they manage. Sometimes they include a pacifier. I'm also a believer in "DO WHAT WORKS." Thanks, George Parks.

He doesn't nurse or take a bottle to nap at the sitter's, though. She puts him down at the same time in the same spot every day and he goes to sleep. Like magic.


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## PuppyFluffer (Mar 18, 2002)

I have some comments on this but don't have time to elaborate right now. I'll be back once the sun has set because right now I have to get out in the garden!


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## Slackermom (Jul 23, 2003)

I've always nursed DD to sleep. When she was a newborn, I felt somewhat chained to the bed -- I couldn't sneak away unless she was absolutley, positively asleep. There were moments when I'd thought I'd lose my mind, and even though I desperately wanted someone else, like DH, to just take over for five minutes and give me a break, DD would have none of it. If she was awake and needed help getting to sleep, I (or my nipple, more accurately) was all she wanted.

In the past couple of months, though, she's started to latch herself off and settle herself down. She still falls asleep easiest with nursing, though.

I'm fine with it now. But I'm aware that I have a very laid back babe, and that has made my experience easier than for some.


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## ja mama (Sep 6, 2003)

I definitely don't think it's "bad" to nurse to sleep, but, here's prospective from the other side of the fence. I did not nurse my boys to sleep.

After the first couple weeks/months we intentionally rocked or patted them to sleep whenever we could. If they fell asleep nursing I didn't wake them up and then lay them down and pat them, or anything that was more work to me. But when they were tiny I did try to encourage them to nurse when they were wide awake, and engage them during and after so they'd stay awake. Obviously that wouldn't always work. But we got there.

It was a very thought out choice for us to not use nursing as a sleep routine. I went to school 3 nights a week when ds1 was 3-6 months old. Then I dropped out, but it was critical that dh have some way of being able to put ds to sleep. I also just really didn't want to be the only one and have only one way of putting him to sleep. I was a nanny for a little boy who had been nursed to sleep for the first year of his life and it was hard for me to get him to fall asleep, but he still needed sleep. The other thing I've noticed was how many kids gave up their naps when they were weaned, because there was no reliable way to get them to fall asleep, even if they were tired. When ds2 was born I couldn't go lay with him for an indeterminite amount of time getting him to sleep while my 2 year old was running around. It was easier to get a predictable routine going.

I have enjoyed many instances of having them fall asleep while nursing, I nursed them throughout the night whenever they wanted, but I did not nurse them to get them to fall asleep. I even avoided nursing them if I knew they were really tired, and had just nursed. We still have bedtime routines and I help them fall asleep until they don't need my help. But it's not nursing, and it's not something that someone else can't do.

Dh wanted to be included in his limited amount of time at home. He is the one that figured out which position ds liked when he was tired that was different from his awake hold. He got to be part of the sleepy, falling asleep in your arms nestling on your shoulder, tenderness.

I chose not to use nursing as the exclusive way to bring on sleep, or even the main way of inducing it. I chose to avoid it. There are so many reasons that it felt like the right thing for us, but, I'm certain that others choose nursing to sleep because it fits them.

FWIW there is no one besides dh or I that put the boys to sleep, we don't have a babysitter or family that watches them. We didn't go this route because we had to for someone else's ease. But we do have the easiest sleepers of all my friends.


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

I just wanted to add that both of my kids go to sleep easily for my DH (DD had some problems with that when she was tiny, but DS has always slept easily for him). Every time I got them to sleep, I nursed. So there's this idea that without training children to go without nursing to sleep, they will have a hugely difficult time falling asleep any other way, but this just wasn't true for my kids. I'm beginning to think that I have freakishly easy sleepers, though.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nikirj*
...I've been able to tell when they were going to start weaning, because they would pop off while still awake, resettle to snuggle, and then fall asleep. For both of my kids, this was the first step in drastically reducing their bfing. In fact, I think my kids were more able to give up their other nursing sessions because they knew that it would be available at bedtime, for that all-important cuddle and comfort session.

Wow. This is *exactly* what happened with us and DD. She initially started popping off while still awake and resettling to snuggle. Read my other thread: nightweaning is going very well!









So...back to the original topic.

I'm noticing a pattern here in some responses. The notion that, if you are going to introduce other ways to go to sleep, that this should be done early rather than later. Why do you suppose that is? Is it just easier to deal with crying and stuff when they are little and we can just tell ourselves they won't remember it? Or do they truly deal with it differently?

Because I think what is being implied here (and maybe I"m wrong) is that nursing to sleep is a "habit" (oh, there's that ugly word!). One that is very hard to break if allowed to continue. But is it truly that easy to avoid in the early years?

For those who say that they encouraged their children to sleep via other means...did it involve any crying? How easy was it?

I only know from my experience, that we did whatever DD needed to get her to sleep. Sometimes that was nursing, other times it wasn't. And even after months of being rocked to sleep, eventually it was nursing that worked. Maybe I just took the easy way, I don't know. But with my albeit limited experience, trying any other ways would have resulted in a lot of crying and distress on everybody's part.

Thanks for a great discussion so far!


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## Bearsmama (Aug 10, 2002)

I think some of the folks who deem nursing to sleep "bad" *might* just be some of those that would think that you'd be "setting the wrong precedent", etc. Or "spoiling" your DC. You know, the same stuff/advice many AP and/or nursing moms get about other personal choices they make. Many people think that even from a very early age children NEED to learn to fall asleep on their own. This, of course, is just a matter of opinion.

For us, we nursed to sleep every night-without exception-up until about 3 months ago (DS is now 28 mos). Then, we started some general night weaning techniques and DS suddenly didn't always want to nurse to sleep. DS started wanting to nurse only when we read our bedtime stories. Then, he would de-latch and roll over and have me hold him while we sang songs, etc. until he was asleep.

Lately, however (for about 2 weeks now), DS is back to nursing to sleep. Seems to need my breast in his mouth again to fall asleep. I am pregnant and due in August and some of this MAY be due to my changing milk supply
(I think I actually have MORE milk again).


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Piglet, this is somewhat off topic but I've heard you comment on the word habit before. Would you mind elaborating on your negative experiences with that word. It's not that important but I want to understand you a little better on that one because I a neutral feeling about "habits".

I know many people who tried to get into some different habits with a second child. I think that is totally understandable on a couple of levels.

As far as starting young, I know some people who have tried to develop "habits" that best fit with their situation and they began at an early age. With my friends, this had nothing to do with crying it was more about forming positive associations and helping the child get used to things.

I do think that because comfort feeding is far more important than other forms of comfort (because for infants they may well *need* to eat while falling to sleep) it is important to not begin some radical "training" for the sake of good habits.

So, like I said - No, there is absolutely nothing wrong with allowing a child to fall asleep at the breast. But, if someone had specific issues "sensitive/"attached" parents are not doing anything wrong with trying to find a good alternative.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I still nurse my 3 yo dd to sleep. No regrets. She can (and does) fall asleep with someone else if she needs to. When I'm there though she'd like to nurse and it's fine with me. It's actually quite convenient!


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## azyre (Oct 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*

So what has been your experience? Are people who have problems with nursing to sleep a minority? Would YOU encourage a new mama to nurse to sleep? Is it a "bad habit" or a gentle, easy tool for gentle bedtimes?

Discuss!









Nursing to sleep has been a fabulous tool for me. Like piglet's dd, if she's ready, it takes no time at all. If it does involve mucking around, at least I'm horizontal







Or tapping away at the keyboard. I could sling her to sleep, patting her bum, as a little baby, which sometimes involved tears so I only did it if nursing wasn't working or I was out and NIP was going to be a big hassle, I'd try for a few minutes first. But as soon as we could feed in the sling, we were home and hosed









At 14mo she is adding new ways to fall asleep to her reportaire. She can fall asleep in the car, and by being rocked, and by being walked in the stroller by her grandparents (but not me, I just tried today







)

I would encourage it. It does take more time than lying a baby in a cot and walking away, which I probably would do sometimes if she fell asleep quickly and happily by herself. But it sure beats a lot of more energetic pursuits. It was hard when I was the only sleep association, but growing into the others has come so naturally and without drama that I will happily do it again for another child. Even if I missed "x" opportunities to have someone put her to sleep before now, i made it up in not having to "jigger jig" or walk the block for hours, I got to sit on my bum


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

Quote:

I'd just as soon nurse a child to sleep until whatever age they are ready to forego that - better that than reading 30 stories a night trying to get the child to wind down (they wind down so much faster while nursing...).
not my daughter. she's 21 months old and i nurse her to sleep after reading about 20 stories to her, at her insistance. which is fine. i'd much rather nurse, read, and tuck her in and have her sleep that way. i am just totally burned out on nighttime nursing, and more than that, on doing bedtime alone. i can't imagine how i'd get her down for a nap (excluding a looooooong drive in the car) if not by nursing her to sleep.

i'm the only one who can get her to sleep. unless she's absolutely exhausted and she can't stay awake (sooo rare) she's finally sleeping thru the night, which has eased alot of my frustrations-she was waking hourly, every 2 hours. now, over the past week, she'll settle herself back to sleep. sweet relief that is.

anyway. i think it's easier to teach them self-sleeping earlier not because it's easier to hear them cry (ahhh!) but b/c they're still so new to the concept of sleeping on a night cycle, and are learning how to sleep, ykwim? i would no more have let my dd be upset at 2 months than i would now at 21mo! i think i referred to nts as a bad habit on another thread. in a way it is, b/c it creates a crutch for sleeping. not because it's "bad", or "good". it just does that. associates mama and breast with sleep. gotta have one to have the other. there've been plenty of times when it's been a sweet and lovely thing too.

its just that, looking back, it wouldve been pretty nice to have had an evening here and there where i couldve taken a long shower, or gone to the bookstore while dh put her to sleep. still would be, but i feel like i missed the window, and don't feel that dd is in a place where she can handle such a change right now.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IdentityCrisisMama*
Piglet, this is somewhat off topic but I've heard you comment on the word habit before. Would you mind elaborating on your negative experiences with that word.

Excellent question! Yes, I realize I do have a negative association with the word. And I had to think about why, lol. I think it's because of the often-heard phrase that "nursing to sleep is a bad habit to begin". I guess you are right that there are good habits, and bad habits. Perhaps I should have sad "bad habit" to distinguish.

By habit, I mean something that becomes so ingrained that it's very hard to stop. If you can catch a smoker on their first cigarette, quitting would be a cinch. But wait 10 years and it becomes much harder. If this is applied to nursing, then the idea would be that if you stop them nursing to sleep when they are newborns, the habit will never develop in them. But if you wait until they are toddlers, it becomes a habit that is traumatic to break.

Of course, my caveat is that, if you are willing to wait long enough, all children eventually wean themselves at their own pace. So the habit will take care of itself. The problem arises when the habit is established, but the parent decides that they can no longer do it, and must force the child to nightwean. I think that no matter how gently you approach it, the child has to be ready on *some level* to start nightweaning, otherwise it's going to be traumatic. And I don't think it's fair to the child, either, since it's not his/her problem, it's the parent's problem.

Quote:

As far as starting young, I know some people who have tried to develop "habits" that best fit with their situation and they began at an early age. With my friends, this had nothing to do with crying it was more about forming positive associations and helping the child get used to things.
So are you saying that in your friend's experience (and I'd like others who have done this to comment, too) it was no problem at all to get a newborn/young baby to adapt to other sleeping methods? I mean, I thought the general idea of nursing to sleep was that this was what babies wanted/needed. If you really are free to "pick your method" and baby will happily go along with it, I find that to be a surprising and perhaps very important fact. Instead, what I imagine (and I sure could be wrong) is parents putting their child through the stress of sleep training at a very young age, versus an age where the child is better equipped emotionally to deal with it and to understand, even verbally, what is going on. But then I read people talking about "starting young" with different sleep associations and I wonder if maybe they are acheiving this without any stress or crying. Are newborns that pliable?


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*
So are you saying that in your friend's experience (and I'd like others who have done this to comment, too) it was no problem at all to get a newborn/young baby to adapt to other sleeping methods? I mean, I thought the general idea of nursing to sleep was that this was what babies wanted/needed. If you really are free to "pick your method" and baby will happily go along with it, I find that to be a surprising and perhaps very important fact. Instead, what I imagine (and I sure could be wrong) is parents putting their child through the stress of sleep training at a very young age, versus an age where the child is better equipped emotionally to deal with it and to understand, even verbally, what is going on. But then I read people talking about "starting young" with different sleep associations and I wonder if maybe they are acheiving this without any stress or crying. Are newborns that pliable?

I know other people that wanted their kids to be able to sleep off the body for a while or wanted the baby to have a predictable schedule, or people who wanted the baby to be willing to be comforted by other people. I think these things WILL come for all children eventually but I can understand if parents are uncomfortable with waiting it out. But I do see your concern with sleep training - especially with regarding feeding because you are talking about feeding, which I do not think should be heavily regulated in infancy. So, no, like I said I don't feel that "starting early" with this is necessarily harmless and I don't think it would work very well either. In fact, I'm not sure if "starting early" works unless the child is willing - children WILL have their say about how it's working for them.

I don't actually know anyone who doesn't nurse to sleep but I do know several parents who were focused on developing habits. I guess I was also focused on habits but they were so "AP" that I don't think many people here would think of them that way. For instance, it was important to me that DC could sleep in the sling, nurse while I was walking around, fall asleep anywhere and sleep when there was noise, and be generally flexible and mobile. I started "training" on those things after the first month. I know that for things that are really important to me (and are totally risk free - like slinging) I would start early.

I think there is quite a bit of "if I only did this" after a stage has passed and I totally understand that feeling but I don't think it's possible to really *know* what would have worked better. I'm not regretful about any of my parenting but I would like the chance to *try* some other things. Deep down inside, though, I think I made the best choices and that I would probably do things quit similarly as I did with Aya. I keep in mind the positive things that my choices have brought us as much as possible but those negatives certainly creep in&#8230;


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## sntm (Jan 1, 2004)

I didn't read all the responses, but we always nurse to sleep unless DS doesn't want to. So, we start out nursing to sleep and if he doesn't fall asleep, we will snuggle together and relax until he falls asleep. He will delatch himself sometimes. DH has put him to sleep several times when I was at a work function or once when I was so sick I was already asleep! DS is in daycare, so he always had experience falling asleep without nursing (they usually pat or rock him to sleep), but I've never had any problem with nursing him to sleep whenever I am with him.


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## tarahsolazy (Jan 26, 2004)

I wish my 3mo old DS would nurse to sleep reliably! He prefers to be walked around in arms, or a sling, or the Moby. He naps on DH in the Moby most days (DH is a SAHD). At night, I nurse him in the bed, and about 30% of the time, he falls asleep. Otherwise, we dance around a little afterwards. I really like holding him to get him to sleep, although I would like longer not in arms sleeping periods. We have been working on this, by putting him in the crib asleep in the evenings, sometimes he lasts 45min, sometimes 2hrs. At the first fuss, someone goes and gets him, and soothes him back to sleep. For my easy-going guy, its pretty cry-free, but I know some kids who would never have tolerated a crib at 3mo. So, for whoever wondered about crying and "training" babies, it seems that some really do allow you to change some things without the crying. I am inherently very lazy, however, and if DS would just nurse and fall asleep, that is undoubtedly what I would do.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

It has been so much better for us, just laying them down awake, I can't not tell people. We started right at the beginning in an experimental way and it worked so great that didn't bother stopping. when she outgrew her bassinet it totally trhew her and we got off track for a few months. it quickly spun into a waking every hour, demanding to nurse back to sleep, needing to sleep with my nipple in her mouth, me cranky all the time. we night weaned at that point and evrything got back to normal within a couple of weeks. I wouldn't tell them not to nurse thier children to sleep though. *I think nursing your children to sleep is OK* and fun (at least in the beginning) and easy and won't ruin your children. What I would tell them is to envision where they want to be in 2-3 years. parent for that. Yes it is sweet and fun to nurse your baby and rock them and hold them and the whole nine yards and seems more like pure bliss than anything close to pain in the butt but this is only cute for a little while. Also something weird happens around 6-9 months and they start waking more, demanding more, I have seen it over and over. with my kids and others. I think it is safe to say expect those more frequent wakings and such. *I would also tell that it is perfectly OK to lay your baby down a awake and let them fall asleep so long as everyone is happy about it.* just like it is OK to nurse your baby to sleep if that is still what you want to do.

Every AP book I had read insinuated that it was cruel, your baby was messed up if they accepted anything less, you were less of a parent, etc. . . if you dared to even try laying them down without nursing. what a crock. We started right away and she didn't protest. I would rub her back a little until she settled and she would do the rest. I guess when you think about it she didn't come out with any expectaion ofbeing nursed to sleep. she spent the first 8 months of her life going to bed full, warm and happy but without a boob in her mouth. why would she expect anything else here on earth? unless of course we build those expectations in. I would nurse her, change her and then lay her down groggy. night night sleepy baby. we didn't have any problems until she outgrew the bassinet (note to self . . .don't become reliant on something with a low weight limit). All peolpe have sleep habits. i have ot have my pillow just right, my body positioned ust so, certain amount of blankets for the right weight, prefer the fan on because it does this rythmical clicking thing . . you get the idea. not everyone is as neuortic as me but still . . . haibts are habits good or bad are reletive to the situation. We try to start with habits we could live with. It just seemed more fair to her to at least try so long as she was game. she has cue words and it is too funny. I will say them and if she doesn't want to stop what she is doign she will get this pouty look on her face pr run away. but almost instantly starts rubbing her eyes and then gives up and comes with me. It is weird how ingrained it is in her. The thing about sleep habits is that they effect more that just you. a baby who has to be held just so with the nipple just so all through the night, might not be hurting themselves but it can drive a woman to the breaking point.

Somehting else I should mention. we allowed Ava to sleep on her stomach. i think more kids would be able to fall asleep soundly on thier tummies without fussing. None of mine would have accepted being laid (lain? dang it I should know that) down and left to fall asleep on thier backs. no two ways about it. evenif starting right from the first day. just too woide open. being held tightly and nursed will ease them into back sleeping more easily. swaddling helped for a while while laying her down to fall asleep but then one day she fell alseep while having tummy time and i was in awe of how well she slept. I respect the need for stomache sleeping as I needed it so badly that i manged to find a way all through my pregnancy. I simply couldn't sleep any other way. Some kids I am sure are the same. Lilyka didn't sleep until she was old enough to fall asleep on her tummy. I wish I had figured that one out earlier. it is risk but being overtired puts them at a greater risk for accidents and I believe accidents are the leading cause of death amung children under 5 in the US. something to think about. there are risks and benifits to everything. i know Lily was injured more than once by accidents directly related to her or my state of complete sleep deprivation. including a broken bone. if she had fallen a little differently it could have been a fatal head injury. When the risk is low for sids, it might be worth it to risk stomach sleeping for the benifits of being well rested (which adds up to alert and coordinated.)


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka*
What I would tell them is to envision where they want to be in 2-3 years. parent for that.

I really wish I could remember some advice I got from an child development teacher that deals with what you said here. I actually disagree with your statement and the teacher that I took a class from, one of the authors or "Becoming the Parent you Want to Be", verbalized my feelings on this very well but I can't remember exactly what she said.

Anyway, I disagree that it's appropriate to parent a child of a particular development for the goals you have for an older child. Not only do I think it will not be successful, but I think it could interfere with parenting the child age appropriately.

I'll stop now because I don't want to nit-pick your post but there are some general issues that differ quite a bit from my approach to thinking about sleep habits.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

So, lilyka...if I follow what you are saying...your newborn (Ava) happily fell asleep on her own if laid down while groggy on her tummy.... ?

Did you roll her over once she was asleep (I have to confess, I never bothered with the whole "back to sleep" thing, but that's because she slept on my chest and then in the crook of my arm, so it was a non-issue)?

Do you think this would work for all babies? Dumb question, probably.

Anyways, I'm tempted to give it a try with this new one coming. See how he handles being put down when not quite asleep ('course, we'll have to get somewhere for him to nap - we don't own a crib, bassinet, or anything). DD was always out like a light before I lay her down, and didn't move in her sleep, so the sofa worked fine for her.

You do have a point about them not needing boob to sleep in the womb.

I do wonder though, b/c when DD was very young she was always asleep by the time she finished nursing. I wouldn't want to wake her up. But then, come to think of it, she did soon enter a phase where that wasn't always the case (thus the dancing method).

It's thought-provoking, this idea that babies are "blank slates" in some sense, that you can try these things. Obviously, I think it goes without saying that if there is crying involved in one method and not the other then the other must take precedent no matter how inconvenient. But I"m getting the feeling here that there wasn't crying involved for Ava.

I enjoyed your post, lilyka. I do think, however, that one should be careful about "parenting for the future" versus waiting until certain developmental achievements have been reached. My baby who needed to be danced/rocked to sleep was only that way for a few short months (up to about 5 months) and then it was no longer necessary. Had I thought it would last until she was 2, I might have done differently. But I always said "this too shall pass" and it usually did!


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## babyluvr (Mar 21, 2004)

I love nursing my baby to sleep. Dd weaned at 18 months and has been going to sleep 'gently' in other ways ever since so it's not like it lasts forever! Now ds usually nurses to sleep but I do try to let other associations happen for sleep sometimes so daddy can share a little more.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

no I didn't roll her over. I just let her sleep. It was the first time she had slept more than 20 minutes during the day (ironically she slept through the night from birth until about 3 months) I did check her every 30 minutes or sobecause the whole back to sleep crap had me super paranoid. to the point of lying ot my midwifes receptionist. At my six week check up Lynn was holding her why I got checked up and when I came backout I mentioned what sensitive skin she has and pointed out the rash on her face. she says "oh that is from sleeping on thier tummies. between the drool and moving thier head side to side . . ." I gasped and said "I would never let my baby sleep on thier tummy. that is not safe!!!" she laughed at me an assured me all her kids had lived and grown up fine. It turned out in the end that she had a birth defect of the throat and the recommended treatment would have been tummy sleeping (I suppose that is one of the reasons she slept so poorly on her back, she would stop breathing and repostiion and wake up. but it is just so much more secure on your tummy all tucked up and scrunched up) So I decided not to worry and to put it in God's hands. As parents there is only s much we can do and so much we can worry about.

I don't feel babies are so much blank slates as really pliable. like playdough pliable and pretty accepting and that they easily acclimate to thier environment. they are sorta in the mode to adjust and fit in as new borns. Some babies of course have thier minds made up from conception and aren't going to bend to anything :LOL

I want to clarify what I meant by parenting for the future. granted some things can only be gotten by waiting until your child is ready. that is a given. but you can at least try to parent in such a way that, well what I am getting at is if you know that you are going to break at a certain point and certain actions can make it worse or lead you to do something you really don't want to do why not at least try to make it easier by having a plan and a goal. does that make sense. And if you identify 10 small things and succeed at avoiding 5 of them tou will have more reserves for the other 5 and they may not be such a big deal since you have the energy and time to deal with them. parenting for the future isn't an exact science or all encompassing deal. You are doing good if you avoid the really big unessecary stuff and make sure any rough spots are well worth it. Some things are. I mean why nurse at all if you are just going to have to wean and your child may be unhappy about it? especially if you have no intention of nursing past 2 or 3?. Well thats obvious. Nursing, any amopunt of nursing, is worth the weaning. duh! But if you know that using nursing to put a child to sleep whether by intention or default will lead to habits you are not willing to follow through on why not try something else first.

It is worth it, I think, in all descisions, to look at where you want to be, see which paths you can take, establish if they will get you where you want to be, are they are paths you can live with? destinations you can live with? if the path takes you where you don't want to go how will you do the second leg of the journey to get yourself where you want to be from the place you end up? is the second step worth it for you and your family? is there another path that is looking better now? It is all about deciding what you want before the heading down a direction you may really regret. Only you know where you can handle going and sometimes you don't even know that much. live and learn and re-evaluate the next time around. unfortunately most first time moms can't even imagine. In kow i couldn't. that is why most people decided to try this with thier 2nd or 3rd child (my first was a champ, would nurse for 2 minutes, take her binky and then I would put her to bed and slip out the binky. total time - 3 min. yeehaw!, so I did it the same. Lilyka on the other hand still needs oodles of help to get to sleep and she is 4. after my 2nd my goal was to do whatever it took to keep from having a child like #2. concerning sleep anyway. I re-evaluated evrything else after #1 but I was sure I had sleeping down.) Also you never know. it may be your child who clings on to every little thing you do and demands that everythime. It might be worth it to you to avoid that if you can. Since I saw how some kids can do that (Lily) I was highly motivated to avoid doing that again. pLan A was to be done with thie baby thing altogether, no way was I going to that dark yucky place again but a week later I found out I was preg. I spent my pregnancy in terror that I was embarking on this journey again. So I got plan B. mostly because I was still struggling with the previous baby. It felt better to have a plan. a book with my plan written down (OK checked off) even. it helped that the book (NCSS) helped me come a long way to solving Lilyiks sleep delima. very reassuing that even bad habits could be undone. I read and reread that plan in those last few weeks of pregnancy. I was going in armed this time and it was comforting. I nkew what I wanted and I knew there was a path most likely to lead there. Not a garuntee but at least a plan with a clearly marked destination. and if things went as planned t would be an easy journey with lots of pleasant stops along the way. Of course I was willing to jump ship and change paths should the moment call for it. As it turned out things with smoothly but not perfectly. there was a major detour put oce we were back where we plkanned to be things went smoothly.

As far as sleeping is concerned short of intentionally letting your baby scream nothing you try is going to harm your baby. In a crib? in bed? in your arms? youmight find out quickly that they hate. fine, scratch that one off. and if you experiment in a crib one day that doesn't mean the end of the family bed. It is kinda cool to check out these things. It doesn't make you less of a mother if your kids doesn't hate it and it could come in handy to have them somewhat familiar with it. I know once my kids started bed diving I would have felt more secure having a crib for whenI wasn't sleeping with them. But we couldn't afford it. Why not try laying them down awake. If they hate it pick them up. Oooo they have cried for 5 seconds. they will live and you will have learned that today they most certainly don't won't to lay there. try again in a few weeks, younever know. Or give it up. you tried, it didn't work whatever. no big really.


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## ja mama (Sep 6, 2003)

We started so early with ds2 that there was no crying involved until about 4 months. But even then it didn't last long. The hardest part was acknowledging that when he was tired to set him down and rub his back if he made any noise. Instead of just carrying him around and holding him.

Interesting about tummy sleep. Both of mine slept on their tummies. Ds1 wouldn't sleep any other way, cried, woke up and cried... from birth. Ds2 slept any way you left him at first, but dh put him down on his tummy so often it became his preference. He did go to sleep easier with us patting or rubbing his back than rubbing his tummy.


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## Messy Nessie (Apr 13, 2004)

i think a mama should do whatever their little one is cuing for and their heart tells them to do!

my dd NEVER nursed to sleep until 3 weeks ago. we had to do all sorts of complicated things to get her asleep. she has never been the kind of baby you can lay down and will go to sleep.

i am sure this will not last forever because none of her "needs" ever do. we just do what has been working until she no longer falls asleep doing it and then we try something else. maybe next she'll fall asleep on her own! LOL

seriously, tho, i love nursing her down. it the most relaxing time of the day. she isn't fussing, fighting or yelling. she's peacful, she strokes my breast and my face and she makes these sweet humming sounds until she is completely asleep. she nurses for a bit longer, breaks off, sighs and then is out. i take her to her sidecarred crib and she sleeps soundly for an hour or two and then is looking for more.

the best sleep she gets of the night is the stretch immeadiately following that. the rest of the night is very restless and broken. i wonder somtimes, if it is b/c i am nursing her to sleep... but then i push that thought out of my head b/c it is such a precious time to me that i cannot give it up! she didn't do well cosleeping past 4 months, which broke my heart, so this is my cuddletime!


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Just wanted to pop in and say that it is threads like this that make me







MDC SO much!

I'm expecting my first in a couple of weeks and I really hadn't given much thought to this until I saw this thread. I love how everyone is sharing their different perspectives without saying "my way is right...you're way is wrong."









~Erin


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## Karry (Apr 10, 2002)

An interesting thread.

I have nursed all of mine to sleep. My first would pretty much only go to sleep nursing. My second also nursed to sleep, but as he got older would also go to sleep if DH or Grandma rocked him. I could even go out for a moms night out and DH could get him to sleep while I was gone.

My newest nursling will sometimes go to sleep while I am nursing him, but usually wants to be rocked after he is fed. I can even sometimes lay him down awake but tired and he will go to sleep. This has been nice with two other kids running around.

I also lay him on his tummy to sleep and have since he was born. None of my kids would ever sleep on their back. I just check on him during naps, and he sleeps in a co-sleeper or in my bed with me at night.

I would recommend to a new mom to do what works. I think it is wonderful to nurse a baby to sleep. And nursing was definately the easiest way to get my toddlers to sleep for a nap.


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## wombat (Nov 3, 2002)

I've always nursed dd to sleep and most of the time I've thought it was the easiest, simplest way to get her to sleep. But there have been periods where I had to lie there for about an hour with her scratching and kicking me... didn't enjoy that. And sometimes I'd like a break and dh can't get her to sleep. And I usually do grocery shopping in the evening and I have to rush out and rush back before her 7.30 bedtime because dh can't get her to sleep.

So when it's a nice 15 minute cuddle and nurse and she's asleep, then yes I think it's great. But when it's the 1 hour long struggle, I wish she'd learn other ways to go to sleep.

I never thought of it as a 'bad habit' though. It's such a natural thing to do.


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## Icequeen_in_ak (Mar 6, 2004)

I have to admit that I adore nursing her to sleep. It's a very special time for the two of us and I love it. I have been trying to let her discover new measures of comfort at bed time so that dad can participate, and it's working... but honestly, I love the nursing the most.


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## joesmom (Nov 19, 2001)

haven't read all the posts.

i nursed joe to sleep. EVERY NIGHT. until he weaned at 3 yrs 11 mos. for the first year he woke up several times a night but i could nurse him without waking up myself; we cosleep. then for the next year or so he woke up twice a night. from then until he weaned he would nurse to sleep, then wake up at about 1:14 am EVERY NIGHT & nurse for about 30 seconds.

his weaning was so gradual i almost missed it, there were days- well, NIGHTS!- that i thought i had created a monster- would he EVER be able to sleep on his own??

now we go to bed between 10 & 11:00 & he is asleep within seconds, sleeps like a brick & is so peaceful.

i am so glad i listened to my instincts & not society. i would have ruined my child out of fear of spoiling him.

nursing to sleep is awesome!


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Dk#1 would not go to sleep any way other than nursing when he was little. Filling him up and laying him down simply would not have worked. Someone mentioned how nursing to sleep for naps means that when they are weaned, they won't nap and get super tired. For dk#1, he gave up his nap as part of weaning himself, and then he went to sleep really early. Nursing to sleep at night (both at the start and if he woke in the night) were the last nursings that he gave up. Then he started falling asleep on his own before I had finished nursing his little brother to sleep, and eventually gave up nursing all together. Dk#2 falls asleep more easily than dk#1 did, but he still nurses to sleep. I don't mind. IMO, it's easier than anything else we could do, easier on all of us. Sure, it means they're older when dh can help put them to sleep, but he often isn't available to help anyway, so I would rather have a method that is super easy for me.

About not needing to nurse in the womb to go to sleep -- well, it is always dark and just the right temperature in there, and they are being rocked to sleep when they fall asleep. Don't babies usually have their days and nights "mixed up" because they would sleep all day while mom walked and be up at night when she was sleeping? They are never being laid down by themselves, I just don't see how it compares to sleeping on their own in a bed.

I agree that if you are going to nurse to sleep, you have to realize that it is "for the long haul." There were difficult nights when I wished they would just be able to lay down and sleep. But it made everything so much easier on most nights. And then I would visit friends when it was bedtime for their kids, and bedtime was such a big deal. Everything hinged on when they had to start the routine, doing everything just right, is she asleep yet? Get back to bed, it's time to sleep! Etc. IME, bedtime takes longer for anyone not nursing to sleep than it does for us. Of course, I don't know many other AP parents, so the difficulty with the non-nursing routine might come from that as opposed to nursing not being involved. If that makes sense.


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## OwensMa (Apr 15, 2004)

I don't see ANYthing wrong with nursing my baby to sleep. In fact, it makes me feel good to know he feels safe and secure at my breast as he's drifting off to sleep.


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## Leatherette (Mar 4, 2003)

I wish I could still nurse my son to sleep. It takes forever to get him to sleep. I did, when he still nursed to sleep, try to get him interested in other ways to self-soothe so there would be options, and that worked, but nursing to sleep was always the quickest and easiest, so that's what we usually did.

L.


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## mystic~mama (Apr 27, 2004)

First I should say that I love nursing dd but the constant all night nursing is where I am having a hard time...she is 25.5 months old and too much of the time she wants to nurse for most of the night and this is where the problem comes in for me...like last night for instance...I went to bed early but spent around 8 hours nursing so I really dont feel very rested...in the morning when I neeeed a little space and I roll over she gets very upset and crys and crys. Nothing will do but booby sometimes and it seriously wears me out. I dont know what to do. I am not sure I can handle another year of this but the thought of weaning her makes me feel very bad and scared for the way she will react.

















sarah


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

rainys~mama, my toddler went through a similar thing when my milk dried up with this pgcy. Is it possible that your supply is lower than usual? Is she going through a growth spurt and your body hasn't caught up with her needs? I'm pretty sure that my toddler was waking so much and not able to get back to sleep because he was hungry. I found if I made sure we had a filling snack right before bed, and occasionally went downstairs for a quick snack if he was really having trouble, he was able to get back to sleep more quickly and easily. I also find that with it being lighter outside in the mornings, he doesn't go back to sleep well if he wakes at 6 am or later. I find that if I just get up with him and we start our day, he will usually have an early nap and then sleep well the next night. Of course, I like being up that early -- my gripe with the never-ending morning nursing is that I want to be up doing stuff, not lounging in bed!


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## mystic~mama (Apr 27, 2004)

Honestly, I'm not sure if my supply is low or what. I am preety sure she is going through a growth spurt and she is also teething. Maybe I am not feeding her enough I dont know. Ive been really stressed lately...that could have something to do with it too. Our diet has really changed so many times I just dont know what to feed her. I am wondering if fats are what she is lacking in her diet...she usually loves to eat avocados and olives which I have not been buying lately. I feel really bad if she is nursing all night because of hunger.

sarah


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## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

My next baby will not be routinely nursed to sleep, I consider this my biggest first time mom parenting mistake. My dd's dependance on the boob to fall asleep made nights after I returned to work (she was 5mo) pure H%$# for over a year and a half!

Falling asleep at night with tiny snuggly infant latched on is very different than falling asleep with a toothy, wiggly, opinionated toddler latched on. It's really hard to be an AP parent on 3 hrs worht of sleep per night for months on end.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

rainys: try to remember that nightwaking and nursing to sleep are not necessarily related. Plenty of kids nurse to sleep but don't stay latched on all night, etc. You can work on nightweaning, without changing totally weaning (see my thread "Nightweaning Success Stories" for details). Also, increasing her night snacking before bedtime was the first thing I did, and it did help. Also, keeping a sippy cup of water by the bed. She was sometimes thirsty and not getting enough liquid from my pregnant breasts.

natashacat: your is exactly the sort of situation that prompted me to start this thread. I totally don't blame you, and others who have gone through this issue, for wanting to do anything you can to prevent a repeat. OTOH, I can't help but feel that this has more to do with the individual child, and that chances are your next one will not have these troubles. Plenty of kids are nursed to sleep without any other troubles...but then you can never know what sort of sleeper/nurser your child will be until you are there, hey?


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## wombat (Nov 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*
...but then you can never know what sort of sleeper/nurser your child will be until you are there, hey?









ITA. I find it funny sometimes HOW MUCH we attribute babies behaviour to our own parenting practices. Of course they have an influence but there's a huge component of babies behaviour that is genetic and temperament influenced, especially sleeping patterns, appetite.. that kinda basic biological stuff. My 16 mo dd is a light sleeper, always has been and I don't think any practice of mine is ever going to change that. I'm also a light sleeper btw. She also has a small appetite and is on the 4% for weight. Yet we will think this situation is 'natural' and we wouldn't believe that we should try to force feed her. However when it comes to sleeping patterns, we believe we should try to alter them, or even believe we CAN alter them.

Another variable is how adaptable the baby is - I think some babies can adjust more easily to parents trying to adapt their behaviour but other babies are quite fixed in their ways.

Sure we can wonder about 'what if' we'd done this or done that. But even if we'd done this or that, it's no guarantee that the babies behaviour would have been any different. And the next baby is going to have different genetics and temperament.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

I just want to say, I agree too. I was worried that my AP practices set my dk#1 up to sleep poorly -- he was at least 6 mos before he would unlatch shortly after falling asleep. Prior to that, if I tried to do it, he would wake up. It seemed like such a breakthrough! I think he had tummy problems when he was little, he mostly wanted to sleep being held upright, esp. when he was less than 2 mos. But, I couldn't imagine doing things any other way with #2, so I steeled myself for the same thing again. He was always so laid back, and nursed like nobody's business. No more than 5 mins at a feeding, but he gained like crazy, unlike dk#1, who was always in the 5th % on the low end of weight. He would unlatch himself when he was done and was easy to put down. (But he often slept in the sling.) I know I didn't do everything exactly the same with him -- after all, I did also have a 2 yo to care for -- but the basics were the same: held as much as possible, nursed on cue, co slept (actually, with #1, I started him out in a crib at the beginning of the night and then brought him to bed when he woke once he was about 3 months or so. I did this for a while, maybe a couple of months. Dk#2 was in our bed full time from birth -- we sold the crib before #1 was a year), all that good stuff. They are just really different.

BTW, dk#1 (4.5 yo) sleeps fine now. He had no trouble falling asleep on his own once I stopped nursing them both to sleep at the same time and telling him I would nurse him to sleep once dk#2 was asleep. It didn't take long for him to start falling asleep on his own. He was close to turning 4. I do still lie down in their room for them to fall asleep -- nursing #2 -- and unless it's been a weird day, he's snoozing in 5 - 10 mins.


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## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

I'm in a better place now, but I look back on the ages from 5-19 mo (when I finally cold turkey night weaned after trying various other approaches) all I can think of is how h%$#ish it was. I think I did OK as an working mom and AP parent but the prospect of going through that again with another child just makes me I'll.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wombat*
Sure we can wonder about 'what if' we'd done this or done that. But even if we'd done this or that, it's no guarantee that the babies behaviour would have been any different. And the next baby is going to have different genetics and temperament.

yeah I wonder what if all the time...I do know that I went into parenting w/o any clue about how babies sleep. I wish, wish, wish, there was more out there (in mainstream places like WIC and Dr.s offices) about how babies-toddlers (esp BF babies) sleep and non CIO solns to difficult sleepers. Thank goodness for NCSS, if only I'd read it much earlier.

I was so dumb, simple things, like mom initiated boob extraction after baby falls asleep, didn't even occur to me.


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## OakEmber (Jul 3, 2002)

Hey I can actually answer this with my BTDT experience...for what it's worth :LOL

I nursed my DD to sleep until she was just over 3 (37 months) so I can let you know how it's been for us these last couple months...absolutely fine! She still co-sleeps and now we read stories in place of nursing but that's about it, no elaborate bedtime routine. And she still naps, most days that is....she didn't stop napping when she weaned as I saw mentioned in another post. There were a few nights that I wasn't home in that 3 years, very few, but she did go to sleep without me or even a bottle.

What they say about AP children being more independant rang true with us when at about 2.5 DD asked to spend the night at her Auntie's (my baby who like I said was nursed to sleep and co-slept from day one wanting to sleep away from me







). She'd never spent the night away from me but I didn't want to discourage her so I went along with it (expecting to pick her up at about 10 or 11:LOL) but no...she was fine (helped that she slept with her older cousin whom she adores).

So in a nut shell, no I don't think it has damaged her in any way and yes I would recommend nursing a baby to sleep so long as it feels right to the mother. I fully intend on repeating the pattern with my new baby in the fall.

Just a comment about the long haul, I have grown up in a family bed type home...we all had our own beds but could go into our parents when we wanted and shared with our siblings as well which I guess is where my attitude comes from. My youngest brother up until last year occasionally climbed into bed with my parents and up until then my dad would lie with him every night until he fell asleep (meaning until my dad fell asleep :LOL)...he is now 13 stays up later than my parents like a typical teen







So it pretty much just feels normal to me to do it this way, another slightly off topic remark...we didn't ever grow up with strick bedtimes or much for bedtime rituals, besides being tucked in and I don't think it has damaged any of us. I don't suffer from insomnia (except when pregnant) and have never had problems sleeping pretty much anywhere so IMHO you can be setting your child up for GOOD sleeping habits by nursing to sleep.


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