# NMY Graduates Love Thread, Part 5



## Sihaya

to the NMY Graduates (+ babies) love thread!





















































































































































































































*Previous Threads*
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

Here's the latest Not Mamas...Yet tribe thread.


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## Sihaya

*Our Current Lovees*















8







14

Katt & Teotimo (Teo)







(12/27/06)
Shanna, Fenton Edward







(3/26/07), & Reece Porter







(10/26/09)
Holiztic/Elizabeth & Quinn Herrick







(4/13/07)
BeccaBear & Alexander Lewis







(5/6/07)
Alice & Johannes Edward







(5/20/07)
Sherrie (Turtle81) & Phillip Benjamin







(6/2/07)
Farmama & Natalina







(7/17/07)
Maela, Maev







(7/17/07), & Jaim








(10/04/09)
Jodi & Rosalie Jayne







(7/23/07)
PiePie &







(8/16/07)
Arelyn & Micaiah







(8/16/07)
Steph (Sihaya) & Calvin Elliot







(12/22/07)
Kelly (snozzberry) & Abigail Ann







(2/16/08)
Christina (cking) & Josephine Angela







(4/1/08)







due 02/10
blizzard_babe & Isaac Vincent







(5/6/08)
Heather (witchygrrl) & Rhea Ann







(8/1/08)
zoebird & Hawk Octavian







(8/30/08)
MujerMamaMismo & Sebastian Felix







(12/21/08)
Angelorum & Westley







(07/26/09)
AsYouWish & DonnaLucia







(09/14/09)
*If your info is missing, please PM me and I will add it!*


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## Sihaya

*Katt*

labor
birthstory
*Shanna*

first contractions
Roo's here!
Fenton's birth story
Reece's birth story
*Elizabeth (Holiztic)*

Quinn has arrived! (by Daddymoe)
first post as a mama
Quinn's first pictures
*BeccaBear*

info post by Sihaya
first post-baby post in the Love Thread, and pics.
birth story!
*Alice*

labor!
Charlie's announcement
pictures
*Sherrie (Turtle81)*

Another little boy joins us! (post by Wateraddict)
Sherrie's update
*Farmama*

contractions!
Natalina arrived!
about the birth
first pics!
birth story part 1
*Maela*

BH contractions!, getting closer - real contractions
midwife on the way!
Maev arrived!
Jaim's Birth Story
*Jodi*

Water broke!
Rosalie has arrived! (with pictures)
Birth story
*PiePie*

In Labor!
Baby girl is here!
*Arelyn*

In Labor! 1 2 3 4
Water Broke!
Micaiah has arrived!
Birth story
*Sihaya*

Calvin is here!
Birth story
*snozzberry*

Abby is here!
*cking*

The royal baby has arrived!
Josephine Angela
*blizzard_babe*

Isaac Vincent is here
*witchygrrl*

Rhea Ann is here
*zoebird*

Hawk Octavian is here
*MujerMamaMismo*

Sebastian Felix is here
*I realize no new links have been added for over a year. If you have other important links to add, please PM me.







*


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## Sihaya

Names following book titles are the NMY grads who recommended the title. If you'd like a book added or info changed, please PM me!

Becoming the Parent You Want to Be
Sihaya

Bright from the Start
PiePie

Connection Parenting
PiePie

The Continuum Concept
zoebird

Diaper-Free Baby
snozzberry, zoebird

Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline
Sihaya

Einstein Never Used Flashcards
PiePie

Heart to Heart Parenting by Robin Grille
MujerMamaMismo

Ina May's Guide to Childbirth
Maela

Nursing Mother, Working Mother
PiePie, snozzberry

Odd Girl Out
PiePie

Our Babies, Ourselves
PiePie, snozzberry

Parenting for a Peaceful World by Robin Grille
MujerMamaMismo

Parenting from the Inside Out
zoebird

Playful Parenting
PiePie, snozzberry

The Second Shift
PiePie

A Sense of Wonder by Rachel Carson
PiePie

Taking Back Childhood
Maela

Tender Hooks
PiePie

Toilet Learning (though won't be popular with ec'ers)
PiePie

Unconditional Parenting
PiePie, snozzberry


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## Sihaya

*







Welcome to our brand new shiny thread, everyone!







*

I hope everyone is able to find their way over here. I'm actually surprised at how long it took for us to get "busted" for our super-long thread


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sihaya* 

*







Welcome to our brand new shiny thread, everyone!







*

I hope everyone is able to find their way over here. I'm actually surprised at how long it took for us to get "busted" for our super-long thread









Thanks Sihaya!!

I have a new link for Jaim's birth story.


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## PiePie

totally forgot about our book list. i would add connection parenting and a sense of wonder.


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## Sihaya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
totally forgot about our book list. i would add connection parenting and a sense of wonder.

Is Sense of Wonder by Rachel Carson? I'm coming up with two different books when I searched on Amazon.


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## TwilightJoy

Subbing!









Big







to Shanna about Fenton being sick and all that came with it.


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## charliemae

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwilightJoy* 
Subbing!


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## Holiztic

Subbing, too.


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## ~Shanna~

Reece's birth story is here. Thanks Sihaya!


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## cking

subbing too. bbl

thanks Sihaya!


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## MujerMamaMismo

Subbing. Thanks Steph. Looking forward to finding time to respond to more here!


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## witchygrrl

Yay new thread. Subbing!


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## arelyn

subbing!

Thanks for the new thread!


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## Angelorum

yay new thread!

thanks for the solids advice all. I think I'll pick up some soft fruits next time I get groceries.


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## MujerMamaMismo

Can I please add _Parenting for a Peaceful World_ by Robin Grille to the list. It's a chunky ready and quite dense at times but really, really fantastic. Actually, add his other book - _Heart to Heart Parenting_, too. It's more parenting 'guide' than the other which is more anthropological/philosophical/sociological.

Sebby is in the middle of something big. He's getting harder and harder to get to sleep. Last night it was 11.30 and then he was awake at 5 for the day. When I tried to get him back to sleep, I copped a massive kick in the mouth and he broke one of my teeth (It was weak and waiting for a root canal.) It was a bit of a disaster. Me screaming, him screaming, me sobbing, him sobbing. I feel so awful for making him feel so bad.

Any ideas what this might be? He's walking really well now, his language is average, his fine and gross motor skills are way above average, his 1 yr molars are through - a growth spurt perhaps? Or maybe he heard our murmurs about nightweaning in a month or two? Or perhaps he heard us talk to our donor about TTC #2.
*
Rico'sAlice  - I have tried to respond to your really thoughtful post about a million times. It has really got me thinking and watching and observing (and trying really hard not to be judgemental). In my attempts not to judge, I do wonder if those of us who are attracted to AP parenting styles tend on the side of super sensitive, more outwardly sentimental, bond forming types. I know that I get close to people easily and form really strong attachments. I'm also a sentimental sop at times. I really hate the thought that non AP'ers may not be as bonded to their children but perhaps it's just that they're expressive in other ways? I haven't got it in me to try and elaborate on what I mean - but do others know what I'm trying to say?

37 weeks Christina! I'm excited for you.

Solidarity to PiePie on the sleep stuff. I'm with you sister!

Shanna. Yay you for being a perceptive Mama. I hope it gets a bit easier now.

I have everything crossed for the TTC'ers. I can't wait to join your ranks - though for your sake, I hope you've graduated by then.

More to say but the micro-napping kiddo is awake xx*


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## PiePie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sihaya* 
Is Sense of Wonder by Rachel Carson? I'm coming up with two different books when I searched on Amazon.

yes.

i tested today. i felt pregnant and didn't want to be building false hopes if i wasn't. i'm not. dh is pissed. i am, i don't know, in shock? bereft? lost. and hideously late for work.


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## accountclosed3

why id DH pissed? i thought he wasn't sure if he wanted the family to move forward in that way. . .or am i lost?

anyway, in our news, ryan is not a finalist in the contest, but we learned he did really well anyway. on each judges short list, but they can to come to consensus on the final 4 (since 5 was chosen by popular vote). it was good to know that he did well. he's like that in a lot of contests--top 5%, but not a winner. he's disappointed.

but, on the up side, we are going to NZ anyway! our visa officer is going to give us a "full assessment" on tuesday (monday our time). we have set up to talk about this over the phone because the emails are strange. the tone is very tone-less, which you could read as curt, or just direct, or simple informational. we're thinking it's direct and informational, rather than curt or upset with us about our visa.

so, we are making plans to talk with her on monday our time (tuesday hers), where we will find that what we need to do to get the visa (if there's anything left to do--she just asked us for 3 yrs back taxes and a letter from our accountant demonstrating that i'd been in business for X years), and if there is or isn't, what the timeline is for receiving the visa.

then, we go to NZ right away. I have to go by next sunday, or i have to go into philadelphia to get my passport renewed. it dies in Feb! ok, technically end of feb, but nevertheless, i don't want to send it away now, and i can't get the emergency pass port (one day) unless we have a travel date that is specific. i know, i tried. LOL

so, that's what is going on here. we will be finished packing today, and ready to go. can't wait to be there!


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## PiePie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
why id DH pissed? i thought he wasn't sure if he wanted the family to move forward in that way. . .or am i lost?

he wants me to be happy (more than he wants his own leisure time and career development time). but really he wanted the timing to work out so that he could take the whole month off work, which was pretty much only possible (his choice, but whatever) if that month was october. because he works with politicians, nobody wants much to do with him when they are trying to get reelected.







i suppose a more diplomatic way to put it would be that little substantive progress gets made on new legislation at that point in the election cycle. so this is about him mourning his newbie-bonding time. or rather his lack of control over the whole thing.

wow am i down. depressed, angry, irritable, isolated, hostile, on the verge of tears all the time, totally consumed. did a bunch of reading in the infertility forum and i really do not want to go there. i tried to think of dd as an only child today. while i am not against onlies on principle or anything, i always wanted a larger family. this is about what i want. for me. i own that.


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## accountclosed3

ah, i see. men think about things in weird ways.

onto your own 'stuff.' it's good to acknowledge and feel your emotions. from an intuitive stand point, i wouldn't go with infertility (as a label) yet. i do feel that your hormones are not quite balanced (or they are some cycles and not others?), and that you might find some insight in Katie Singer's Garden of Fertility, and from that, the simple fix will be something easy from Susun Weed's Wise Woman Herbal for the Child Bearing Years. Really, i think you need a specific nutrient (mineral, i think), and that you'll be able to get it through a tea. but i can't "feel" which one it is. So, you'll have to look at that.

Aside from that, i often thought that i would have a large family too. I mean, like, *large* (ok, for me. 4 or more children). I think part of it is because i grew up with such a small family. i didn't grow up near extended family, and many of my friend's did and would include me at gatherings. it seemed so cool to have so many people at a family reunion or birthday or other celebration. it was always so much fun, and our family things were always so low key.

so, i always thought that i would want a large family. part of my dream was to really like my ILs. you know how that worked out. LOL (and don't get me started on my new drama with them, but anyway. . .LOL). so, to an extent, i had to learn to let go of wanting that large, fun, extended family and accept the nut-case, annoying ILs that i have.

and then, once i had hawk, i was like, you know what? i don't know if i really want to have (or even adopt) more children. hawk is so awesome in every way--and so was the pregnancy and birth--and so "one would think" that i would like to do that a zillion times or something.

so i keep asking myself, why do i feel that i don't want or need more kids? is something wrong with me? what about the prior vision of myself and my family? was i just wrong? am i afraid of something? (the answer to this one is yes to an extent--i feel like i caught lightning in a bottle with hawk, i'm not so sure i'd be so "lucky" again. so there is a bit of fear in that) am i just being weird?

or it is really that having an only is what is right for our family and i'm really picking up on that message? am i only feeling doubt about this because of prior ideas or cultural pressures? or is it that i really do want those things but don't want to admit it, or that i want an only and don't want to admit that?

we're all human and full of weird questions and not knowings, you know? so all of your feelings are totally valid--in both wanting another and in preparing for what may be a reality for you (having an only, infertility or whatever else). i totally get that too.

anyway, *hugs*.


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
so i keep asking myself, why do i feel that i don't want or need more kids? is something wrong with me? what about the prior vision of myself and my family? was i just wrong? am i afraid of something? (the answer to this one is yes to an extent--i feel like i caught lightning in a bottle with hawk, i'm not so sure i'd be so "lucky" again. so there is a bit of fear in that) am i just being weird?

or it is really that having an only is what is right for our family and i'm really picking up on that message? am i only feeling doubt about this because of prior ideas or cultural pressures? or is it that i really do want those things but don't want to admit it, or that i want an only and don't want to admit that?

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I'm pretty darn sure that I don't want anymore kids now, but sometimes I ask myself why? If we are going to stop at two, I want to make sure that we're doing it for the right reasons - anbd that we're not going to regret it in 30 years when we're old. So I keep asking myself all these same questions over an dover...

I'm thinking though that two really is the right number for us and I'm only feeling wishy washy about it because I *used* to want a big chaotic family because I always had so much fun at my best friends' house (she was one of six). But it's different when you're the parent.







And because everyone around us (except my mom







) is telling us that we will/should want to have more. And I really like kids - but it's different when you're the one taking care of them 24/7, yk? I'm pretty sure that limiting it to two will be good for me emotionally and mentally.

And PiePie


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## TinyFrog

Subbing to the new thread!








I can't believe you are already at 37 weeks Christina! It certainly doesn't seem that long ago that you were telling us you were expecting.








Zoe, you are so close! It is exciting and I imagine you will be so relieved to be in your own space again.


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## farmama

hey all. just wanted to say hi! PiePie,









i'm thinking about 2, but can't see more than 2 kiddos myself...unless there's some unusual adoption situation. never know.


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## cking

Piepie, I'm sorry. I know, ttc can be incredibly hard. I know it doesn't help for me or anyone to tell you to go easy on yourself. So I will just say I wish you peace surrounding it.









Zoebird, very excited for you! You'll be in NZ so soon!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maela*
I'm thinking though that two really is the right number for us and I'm only feeling wishy washy about it because I *used* to want a big chaotic family because I always had so much fun at my best friends' house (she was one of six). But it's different when you're the parent. And because everyone around us (except my mom) is telling us that we will/should want to have more. And I really like kids - but it's different when you're the one taking care of them 24/7, yk? I'm pretty sure that limiting it to two will be good for me emotionally and mentally.

Maela, I think you are wise. I'm from a huge family; it was definitely chaotic but not necessarily fun. (I know there are big families that are much happier than ours though!) I always complain that the kids were neglected in a family like ours; but the more I think about it, I really think that my mom neglected her Self. In many ways. And that in turn is hard on the kids too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna*
cking, I can't believe it's almost time! How do you feel? How is Josephine? How is night parenting? How is DH? This adjustment is probably going to be hardest on him, at least that was my experience. It seems to be hard on the non-nursing partner to be on their own so much.

Well, I feel tired.







But other than that, pretty good. I'm starting to accept that I could never been entirely ready, so I guess that means I'm ready. After I scrub the kitchen floor and get all of the newborn clothes washed and have dh set up the tub&#8230;.









Josephine seems to know that change is imminent. Her sleep is disrupted - she has been waking up once a night and just wants to be comforted back to sleep. Usually by me only, but dh has been trying to step in. Which is great, since this is the first time he's been willing to get up with her. Mostly because he doesn't want me to lay down in her bed - it's on the ground and no longer comfy for me. (and very hard to get up!) But he keeps saying "that won't work in a few weeks&#8230;" with the new babe. But I'm hoping that J will learn to get up and come to me if she needs comforting, and she has done that a few times lately. I just wish we had that king size bed. But aside from that, she has also been very clingy to me during the day&#8230;so I imagine it will be hard for DH (or MIL, or whomever) to spend time alone with her after the baby comes.

[Oh, and nursing really hurts! I'm still hoping she'll hold on until the baby comes, but sometimes I have to stop her after about 30 seconds because it just hurts too much. She is least agressive in the mornings, so I think I'd like to hold onto those sessions...and they might work out best for snuggling with both kiddos. I'm also kind of worried that my breasts might be damaged from her nursing w/o milk all this time, and always in the same position. maybe that's irrational...]

But really, I am amazed by her. I think she has really matured in recent months. I'm not sure what kind of reaction she is going to have to the baby, but she really does seem to understand what we're talking about. And she's really working on her mothering skills with her dolls and animals (and even Little People). I'm a little scared about the adjustment, but very excited about meeting the new babe, and about Josephine meeting him/her too.

--------------
Josephine has discovered our Simpsons chess set, and it's her new favorite toy. She's learned all the character's names (just Simpsons family + Krusty) and asks to play with it every day. The other day we decided to show her an episode, so we watched the 20th anniversary show, and she learned another new word - Princess. Yikes. And today she started singing "Krusty the snowman".


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## Holiztic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cking* 
Josephine has discovered our Simpsons chess set, and it's her new favorite toy. She's learned all the character's names (just Simpsons family + Krusty) and asks to play with it every day. The other day we decided to show her an episode, so we watched the 20th anniversary show, and she learned another new word - Princess. Yikes. And today she started singing "Krusty the snowman".
















I'm sorry C, but did you just say your not yet 2 year old watched the Simpsons? My mom (not terribly conservative) wouldn't let me watch it until I was 10!


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## cking

Yep, i did. I'm not advocating for it or anything; it's not going to be a habit - she seemed more interested in the chess pieces.

And wait, were you _under_ 10 when the Simpsons started? good lord, I feel old. well, not really, I think I was 12 or 13.

I don't know, my mom objected to _everything_ on tv and movies when i was growing up. I'm not sure what effect it had on us, other than make me really hungry to see pop culture when I visited friends. (we didn't have cable or a vcr.) not that any of this has anything to do with toddlers and tv.


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cking* 
Josephine has discovered our Simpsons chess set, and it's her new favorite toy. She's learned all the character's names (just Simpsons family + Krusty) and asks to play with it every day. The other day we decided to show her an episode, so we watched the 20th anniversary show, and she learned another new word - Princess. Yikes. And today she started singing "Krusty the snowman".
















Cking, I am so happy to hear that Maev is not the only one who knows the Simpson's characters! It's one of dh's favorite shows, and she has seen it quite a few times. I was just telling dh the other day though that I don't think we should watch it anymore when she's awake as she;s paying more attention to the words now.


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## Angelorum

zoe I know what you mean about that 'lightning in a bottle' thing. I am planning on having more children, but right after Westley was born I just kept wondering how another pregnancy and birth were ever going to be as awesome as the first time. Especially because I can feel the differences in my body now and the one I had before pregnancy.

On that, did anyone have an achy pelvic floor post partum? Westley is almost 6 months, and if I'm on my feet for any more than hour or two my pelvic floor just starts to ache (it gets achy 3 times faster if I'm wearing him, though my new woven wrap is a lot better). It's the same feeling I used to get when I was on my period. I should probably be better about doing my kegels, but I really thought I'd feel recovered by now. It definitely has improved over time, the few weeks following the birth I could only stand for 15 minutes. It really caught me off guard, I was a little achy there late in pregnancy, but I had no incontinence problems or any of that. I did have a sort of long pushing phase (2.5 hours) I often wonder if I damaged things then.


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 
On that, did anyone have an achy pelvic floor post partum? Westley is almost 6 months, and if I'm on my feet for any more than hour or two my pelvic floor just starts to ache (it gets achy 3 times faster if I'm wearing him, though my new woven wrap is a lot better). It's the same feeling I used to get when I was on my period. I should probably be better about doing my kegels, but I really thought I'd feel recovered by now. It definitely has improved over time, the few weeks following the birth I could only stand for 15 minutes. It really caught me off guard, I was a little achy there late in pregnancy, but I had no incontinence problems or any of that. I did have a sort of long pushing phase (2.5 hours) I often wonder if I damaged things then.

Mine was like that until about 6 weeks pp. I agree kegels would help, but i think i'd mention it to my dr/mw.

I somehow missed your last sentence. Ithink that makes sense with the longer pushing phase.


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## PiePie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 

On that, did anyone have an achy pelvic floor post partum? Westley is almost 6 months, and if I'm on my feet for any more than hour or two my pelvic floor just starts to ache (it gets achy 3 times faster if I'm wearing him, though my new woven wrap is a lot better). It's the same feeling I used to get when I was on my period. I should probably be better about doing my kegels, but I really thought I'd feel recovered by now. It definitely has improved over time, the few weeks following the birth I could only stand for 15 minutes. It really caught me off guard, I was a little achy there late in pregnancy, but I had no incontinence problems or any of that. I did have a sort of long pushing phase (2.5 hours) I often wonder if I damaged things then.

I had this but not after 6 weeks post-partum. I would see your healthcare provider. eta: I pushed for more than 2 hours. eta: my mw didn't think it was the pushing but rather the carrying the baby at the end of the term. i wen to 39 w, 1 day -- she was not an especially big baby, 7 lbs. even, but my mw said that was enough. also that with aging the tissue changes there, so some women have pelvic floor issues even if they never were pregnant. it shouldn't hurt though.


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## cking

Angelorum, I continued to have achiness whenever I wore dd for a long time after the birth. It improved very quickly once I started getting serious about kegels (I bought an 'aid' for this







), which wasn't until 13 months pp. and then i got pregnant again. So I know this time I will work on it sooner.


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## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cking* 
Yep, i did.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maela* 
Cking, I am so happy to hear that Maev is not the only one who knows the Simpson's characters!

Weird thing about this - a long time ago (maybe a year ago?), Fenton got up from his nap while DH and I were watching an Office episode on DVD. It was just at the theme song part, and he came down and said (before we knew he was there) "It's The Office". We had never. watched it. with him. Never talked about it, had only recently brought it up from the basement. The only thing I can guess is that I watched it so much while he was in utero that he learned it that way. It was very strange. My sister swears that Gabe recognized the Friends theme song when he was a little baby because she watched it so much while pg.

Goes to show it's never too early to get fanatical about what your children or fetus should be exposed to







.


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## accountclosed3

i know that when it comes to my pelvic floor, i'm a bit of a freak. the yoga training makes you *very* aware of it, and so i can honestly say that my pelvic floor didn't feel normal until this past december--15 months after the birth.

of course, my normal and everyone else's normal is vastly different.

the ache lasted about a month, but it felt very loose and weak for a long time.


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## Sihaya




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## Angelorum

Sihaya!

I have talked to my midwife about the pelvic floor thing, her only suggestion was kegels. I did notice a big leap in strength when I started doing some light exersize, need to get back on that.


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## witchygrrl

Woot, Sihaya!!























Feeling frustrated. I am having so little luck finding a job, it's not even funny. And I think our taxes are going to be a disaster.


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 





















Sihaya!









:














Congrats!!


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## cking

Congratulations Steph!


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## farmama

Congratulations Steph! Are you thrilled?


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## MujerMamaMismo

5 parts thrilled, 1 part jealous Steph!!! Congratulations.


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## Sihaya

Thanks, everyone!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *farmama* 
Congratulations Steph! Are you thrilled?

I wish. I want to be. Instead, I'm terrified. My temps do not look good and went back down below the coverline today. I'm not feeling any symptoms besides cramping and I'm just so scared it's a chemical or will be another early m/c (last baby was gone at 5 weeks and the progesterone I was taking probably only prolonged things). I'm only 12dpo today

Sorry to be a downer, I want this *so* badly but just don't feel like I can get attached yet


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## witchygrrl

hoping for the best, Sihaya.


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## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sihaya* 
Sorry to be a downer, I want this *so* badly but just don't feel like I can get attached yet









Congratulations Sihaya - I'm wishing you peace







.


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## accountclosed3

i'll burn intentions for you today, S. i'm doing it for myself anyway. I do it for all you TTCers btw, so don't feel all jealous.









we fly tomorrow--hotel tonight.


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 

we fly tomorrow--hotel tonight.

How exciting!! Can i come?!


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## accountclosed3

any time.


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## Sihaya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchygrrl* 







hoping for the best, Sihaya.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
Congratulations Sihaya - I'm wishing you peace







.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
i'll burn intentions for you today, S. i'm doing it for myself anyway. I do it for all you TTCers btw, so don't feel all jealous.









Thank you all







ZB, thank you so much. I really appreciate it!

I did something I swore I wouldn't do and got my blood drawn today to check HCG and progesterone levels. Going in on Friday for the second draw. DH is upset that I'm being so interventionist







I have no idea what I'm going to do with the results, I just felt strongly that I needed to do the tests. I feel calmer already even though I won't have results back for a while.

*zoebird* - Awesome!


----------



## PiePie

*Steph*, I get the anxiety.


----------



## cking

Steph







wishing you peace too.

have a good flight(s) zoebird!









witchy, i wish you better luck with your job search. I forget, is it not working out with the other job? Or was that temporary?


----------



## witchygrrl

cking, it was an adjunct position, and they didn't have the enrollment to run my course in the spring. So I'm left high and dry, and because I was an independent contractor, I'm not eligible for unemployment. Ah well, I may have an interview next week after all. Not as good money and the travel is further, but we'll see.

but you're so close! how exciting









zoe, have a safe trip. This is such an amazing exciting time for you.

sihaya, sometmes you gotta do what you gotta do. I am still hoping for the best, of course.


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchygrrl* 

sihaya, sometmes you gotta do what you gotta do. I am still hoping for the best, of course.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Fenton [running around diaperless]: "I have to go poop! I have to go poop!"
Me [getting up to follow him to bathroom]: "OK, let's go!"
Fenton: [pushes me back to sit in chair] "No, you stay here while I go". [comes running back to me] "Wait, will you wipe my nose?"










Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sihaya* 
Thank you all







ZB, thank you so much. I really appreciate it!

I did something I swore I wouldn't do and got my blood drawn today to check HCG and progesterone levels. Going in on Friday

I did the same thing with Fenton's pregnancy.







I didn't feel the same need with Reece, it really can help without creating a different world view.


----------



## Angelorum

shanna

Westley seems to be changing up his sleep/nap habits. I used to put him down for all his naps by swaddling and then rocking him in his bouncer with my foot. It was nearly fool proof, even if he didn't look very tired. I loved that I could knit or have my hands otherwise occupied while putting him to sleep. It's not working anymore though







He nurses to sleep more often now, if I try to lay him in his bouncer before he's totally out, he just arches his back and protests, and then I have to fight to get him to take the breast again and it's 20 more minutes to get him relaxed and asleep. And his naps have been a lot shorter too. I'm hoping we get back into a rhythm again soon. His first two teeth broke through last week, so maybe it's the teething discomfort that's throwing him off.

He does seem to do better on days that we get out of the house. I took him to "lap time" at the library today. It's advertised as being for infants and young toddlers (Story-time afterward is for the older toddler-preschoolers). He was definitely one of the youngest babies there who didn't have an older sibling participating. He seemed to enjoy it though, grinning and bouncing up and down during the songs. He fell asleep in the wrap on the walk home







. ( I







being able to walk to the library) I just need more ideas on things to go out and do in the winter. I tend to be sort of a homebody. Tomorrow I think I'll be brave and attend the local AP playgroup. I've never been before, I'm feeling sort of shy.


----------



## PiePie

*Angelorum*, Definitely get out of the house. DD was going to library story hour regularly at 6 weeks!! Try the AP playgroup and see if it works for you. Something will work -- it's just hard to hook up with the right things.

Tonight's crisis: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...2#post14993292


----------



## accountclosed3

have had such an exciting adventure so far.

first, got to the hotel around 10, but ended up staying up until midnight rearranging bags and having a snack. slept until 4 am, and got out to the shuttle by 5, airport at 5:15, and everything checked in and through security by 5:45. (check the EC forum for a funny story about hawk and the first security check!)

got onto the first flight and it was great. he fussed a bit now and again, but otherwise napped for about 3 of the 6 hrs of the flight (toward the end) and mostly played happily for the first 3 hrs. so, it was all in all very easy.

get to SF at 11 and the ticket/check in is closed until 3:30. we have a boarding pass, so we go through security because that's where there is a mexican restaurant rather than a food court. have a great lunch, and then head to our gate. we ar the only ones there, it's really sunny and open, and hawk runs around and plays while we alternate napping!

around 5:30 the gate opens and i go to make sure that our boarding passes are right. on a hunch, we'd purchased tickets for Aus for 3 mo after our arrival as per the visitor visa rules, but when they checked my passport, they wouldn't let me in because it expired on Feb 9, 10.

i told them i planned on having the consulate do it for me, but they said it wouldn't work because there weren't enough days (they talked with immigration, who contacted the consulate, who then said it would take too long).

we got bumped from our flight.

thankfully, we were in San Fran where my aunt lives! We called her and are at her house now.

we then went to the SF passport agency office. got the new passport today. it couldn't ahve been easier! it was so great.

then, spent the day hanging around SF and enjoyed that thoroughly too. such a great day.

get to sleep in tomorrow morning and head over to the air port at 3:30 to check in and make sure our bags are in tact (They'd pulled our checked bags off the plane).

so, we fly out tomorrow at 7, which is what i wanted for hawk originally anyway (to spend time with my aunt before, see SF).

also, ryan saw producers Barrie Osborn (Lord of the Rings) and also Frances Ford Copala (Sp?) at his restaurant in SF! both serendipitous!


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Great adventures zoebird!

Where are you flying to in aust? Would be so fun to meet you in Melbourne!


----------



## accountclosed3

i was wondering where you were. looks like April we will be going. we have a friend in Adelaide too.

we figure if we don't get the visa (we will), we'll see Aus and then make plans. if we do get the visa, then we'll just make it a quick trip to Aus for a weekend or so to visit friends and see a few things, and then head back to NZ to continue with the business.

if my friend in adelaide is not going to be in adelaide, then we'll go to melbourne instead.


----------



## Sihaya

Got my blood results back today and things look great







HCG levels are good and doubling time was 38 hours. My progesterone came back above 25 (I wanted to see it at 20 or higher). I am very relieved and excited!

Also, my mom had a dream yesterday that I had a baby girl who was born in October







I hadn't told her I was pg yet, but after she called and told me about the dream I just had to. She has had dreams like that before, too. For some silly reason, the dream makes me really hopeful, especially since it was so specific about the month.

Next big milestone is listening for the heartbeat at 12 weeks (~2 months from now). After that, I think I'll really be able to relax, but until then, I'm still holding my breath a bit


----------



## Angelorum

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sihaya* 
Got my blood results back today and things look great







HCG levels are good and doubling time was 38 hours. My progesterone came back above 25 (I wanted to see it at 20 or higher). I am very relieved and excited!

Also, my mom had a dream yesterday that I had a baby girl who was born in October







I hadn't told her I was pg yet, but after she called and told me about the dream I just had to. She has had dreams like that before, too. For some silly reason, the dream makes me really hopeful, especially since it was so specific about the month.

Next big milestone is listening for the heartbeat at 12 weeks (~2 months from now). After that, I think I'll really be able to relax, but until then, I'm still holding my breath a bit










Great news!

Things here were soooo much better yesterday! Westley got 11 hours of sleep at night and 2 good naps during the day. Today's looking good so far, but I'm leaving for work soon, hopefully that won't throw him off (he comes with me).


----------



## cking

Yay for good results Steph! So cool about your mom's dream.
















Angelorum, Great that Westley got some good sleep. Really cool that he comes to work with you. I meant to post earlier that I think it's a really good idea to check out the AP playgroup. I've met some great friends through things like that and it really has helped me out.

ZB, I hope the rest of your journey has gone well. Great that you got the new passport right away. LOL about Hawk's adventures with the TSA agent.









Full moon this morning, but nothing happening here yet.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Great news Sihaya and Angelorum!!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cking* 
Full moon this morning, but nothing happening here yet.


















You must be getting close, I get giddy when I see you've posted









GREAT weekend this weekend. I got a massage, had breakfast alone in a restaurant and had a date with DH last night. Lord, I need that after 6 weeks of consecutive sickness in my house. Going to keep my own sickness at bay with what DH calls my "witches brew": tea of ginger, garlic, cloves and peppercorns. I feel it coming on, but I'm ready for the fight now. Spirits are high! AND, I saw tank tops for sale in a clothing store. VERY good for morale!


----------



## PiePie

*Shanna*, Good for you for taking time for yourself. I am not getting enough and it is getting on my last nerve! Still major bedtime resistance happening here.







I am also feeling guilty that I am depriving her of sleep, in that she has to get up in the morning to go to sch so we can go to work.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
*Shanna*, Good for you for taking time for yourself. I am not getting enough and it is getting on my last nerve! Still major bedtime resistance happening here.







I am also feeling guilty that I am depriving her of sleep, in that she has to get up in the morning to go to sch so we can go to work.

The bedtime routine has been one of my greatest frustrations in parenting







. I've (only recently) had good luck with the following routine for naps - it helped divorce me from outcome even when it didn't "work" in the conventional sense:
Read set number of books
Tuck him into bed with a snack, water, a toy
Turn on quiet music for him, on repeat (his choice)
Tell him he doesn't have to go to sleep, he can play with his toy, do whatever he wants, but he MUST STAY IN HIS BED.

The only way I respond to the outcome is if he doesn't nap at all, bedtime commences 1 hour earlier and we dont leave him alone any time after 4 pm because he will fall asleep. It also means we don't watch anything on tv for the rest of the day because...he'll fall asleep. He seems to understand it's not a punishment, just a logical progression. Usually we watch 30 minutes of something after the nap.

Basically, this works because it gets him to stay in one place long enough to fall asleep. Some days he falls asleep when he needs to, some days he doesn't. But I am able to parent him a lot better when I'm not spending 2 hours being abused, when I know he's tired. I don't know if this is appropriate for L's age and temperment, but Fenton has done well with it and it's done wonders for me feeling like I get a small piece of my own time in the landscape of all I give during the day. I do it for the nap, but you could try it for bedtime, especially if you're in bed in the same room reading? As for our bedtime, it's still taking 60-90 minutes. But I can accept that if I'm not also doing it in teh afternoon for naps.
~~~~~
I've had an epiphany that is changing my parenting. Self regulation for my children children is a fallacy. I'm shocked that my almost 3-year-old doesn't eat when he's hungry, sleep when he's tired. It doesn't make sense to me, maybe recognition of these symptoms is learned. But I'm finally confident enough to say my child needs help preventing over-tiredness and extreme hunger. The world is simply too interesting to him sometimes to take care of his basic needs. I'm surprised by this, and i didn't believe it for the longest time. It doesn't help me to control less (which I need help with), but it does help me to not feel like a victim when my child is manic due to hunger or exhaustion.


----------



## ~Shanna~

How are all of you handling the dentist with your LO? F is almost 3 and....hasn't been to one yet







.


----------



## Holiztic

Q went to the dentist with me a few weeks ago just to look around and see Mommy go sit in the chair (then DH took him home).

He has a "happy visit" late Feb. to meet Ms. Cindy, sit in the chair (go up and down), look at his mouth on the screen (using the little camera they put in your mouth), etc. If he does well, they'll clean and check him out then. If he seems unsure, it'll just be a fun visit and we'll come back for cleaning (once we've prepared him more). He's awesome about anything if he's been prepped well with role playing, etc. so I'm not too worried.


----------



## Maela

Maev is 2.5 and hasn't been to the dentist yet either. I am planning on taking her sometime in the next three months though. Just have to get my act together and find a good dentist. I've been putting it off because I need to go to and I know they're going to tell me I need my wisdom teeth out and I don't want to.







I'm very scared of being put to sleep.









Shanna, what you do for naps is what we do for bedtime. It's worked very well so far (1 month).


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Holiztic* 
Q went to the dentist with me a few weeks ago just to look around and see Mommy go sit in the chair (then DH took him home).

He has a "happy visit" late Feb. to meet Ms. Cindy, sit in the chair (go up and down), look at his mouth on the screen (using the little camera they put in your mouth), etc. If he does well, they'll clean and check him out then. If he seems unsure, it'll just be a fun visit and we'll come back for cleaning (once we've prepared him more). He's awesome about anything if he's been prepped well with role playing, etc. so I'm not too worried.

what a great idea!


----------



## PiePie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
The bedtime routine has been one of my greatest frustrations in parenting







. I've (only recently) had good luck with the following routine for naps - it helped divorce me from outcome even when it didn't "work" in the conventional sense:
Read set number of books
Tuck him into bed with a snack, water, a toy
Turn on quiet music for him, on repeat (his choice)
Tell him he doesn't have to go to sleep, he can play with his toy, do whatever he wants, but he MUST STAY IN HIS BED.

The only way I respond to the outcome is if he doesn't nap at all, bedtime commences 1 hour earlier and we dont leave him alone any time after 4 pm because he will fall asleep. It also means we don't watch anything on tv for the rest of the day because...he'll fall asleep. He seems to understand it's not a punishment, just a logical progression. Usually we watch 30 minutes of something after the nap.

Basically, this works because it gets him to stay in one place long enough to fall asleep. Some days he falls asleep when he needs to, some days he doesn't. But I am able to parent him a lot better when I'm not spending 2 hours being abused, when I know he's tired. I don't know if this is appropriate for L's age and temperment, but Fenton has done well with it and it's done wonders for me feeling like I get a small piece of my own time in the landscape of all I give during the day. I do it for the nap, but you could try it for bedtime, especially if you're in bed in the same room reading? As for our bedtime, it's still taking 60-90 minutes. But I can accept that if I'm not also doing it in teh afternoon for naps.
~~~~~
I've had an epiphany that is changing my parenting. Self regulation for my children children is a fallacy. I'm shocked that my almost 3-year-old doesn't eat when he's hungry, sleep when he's tired. It doesn't make sense to me, maybe recognition of these symptoms is learned. But I'm finally confident enough to say my child needs help preventing over-tiredness and extreme hunger. The world is simply too interesting to him sometimes to take care of his basic needs. I'm surprised by this, and i didn't believe it for the longest time. It doesn't help me to control less (which I need help with), but it does help me to not feel like a victim when my child is manic due to hunger or exhaustion.

BEDTIME/SLEEP: *shanna*, i have tried something similar to your plan (no food in there) but it does not work because she won't stay in bed and/or she wants me (ideally me and DH) in the room with her. the thing is, she will self-regulate, it will just be with a later nap and then a later bedtime which makes getting up in time for sch/work the suck.

DENTIST: DD has been to the dentist i intend(ed) to take her to twice with me, sitting on my lap. i tried to schedule an appt. a while back but the dentist explained that she does not do cleanings foro under 3s unless the parents insist on it and that the initial under 3 visit is to educate parents against juices, etc. done. that dentist has relocated, making her less convenient (and she wasn't so convenient before). i like her (she has twins who are pushing 3) but i hate her waiting room and her untimeliness. the other dentist i would consider does not have such a hot waiting room either. i need to make an appt. to, because my ped made me promise to have a cleaning during her 3rd yr.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Holiztic* 
He's awesome about anything if he's been prepped well with role playing, etc. so I'm not too worried.

Fenton is....decidedly NOT







. He hates strangers touching him, it's part of why his hair is so long and why I've put this off....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maela* 
Shanna, what you do for naps is what we do for bedtime. It's worked very well so far (1 month).

I've been thinking about expanding it, but Fenton has said a couple of times "I want you to come with me" at bedtime, making me think he's nervous about a slippery slope. He;s been so indepandant on his own that I don't want to shove him. I think our next encouragement would be him in his own bed over him going to sleep on his own. Did I tell you all about the firetruck bed we were gifted? Just waiting on DHs grad school acceptances to see what room/when to set it up to pique interest (domino effect that is too boring to explain why the two are related).

Tomorrow I'm enrolling in the Birth Mentor training program with Birthing From Within!!!!


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
Tomorrow I'm enrolling in the Birth Mentor training program with Birthing From Within!!!!























Awesome. As you know via fb, I've just put my birth attendant application in. I'm so so so excited. there's no reason I won't be accepted but I'm still nervous!

I've also decided to accept a place in the Australian Breastfeeding Association (our LLL) breastfeeding counselling training program. They've been on my back for a while now and I really do want to do it - I'm just not convinced about my actual capacity to undertake two courses at once. But if I don't do it now, it'll be another few years by the time I've been preggo and birthed another babe and hung out with the newbie...so now it is. And Sebby is going to childcare on Friday mornings, and my mum is taking him on Weds afternoons and my sis on Monday afternoons. I think that's a reasonable amount of care - i wouldn't want anymore, afterall, I did stay-home to be with him!

Meanwhile, sleep is hell here too. The only way I can get him to sleep is by restraining him (with cuddles) and eventually he's screamed enough that he's exhausted and nurses quickly off to sleep. Otherwise it's hours of nursing and running away, rinse and repeat. We're playing with frequency of naps and naptimes too but nothing is really working.

*zoebird:* welcome to the southern hemisphere. I hope it's a little cooler in your part of the world. we're melting today.

I just managed a successful sleep transfer from car to bed - complete with shoes on. Hope that doesn't wake him up in 5 minutes!


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 





















Awesome. As you know via fb, I've just put my birth attendant application in.

I know, I've been inspired!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
Meanwhile, sleep is hell here too. The only way I can get him to sleep is by restraining him (with cuddles) and eventually he's screamed enough that he's exhausted and nurses quickly off to sleep. Otherwise it's hours of nursing and running away, rinse and repeat. We're playing with frequency of naps and naptimes too but nothing is really working.

Is he teething? I'm so sorry that sleep has been such a nightmare for you for so long







The flip side is my sister's youngest who has slept 12 hours straight since practically birth, and she wasn't thriving for a while. There can be wisdom in the mania. I can't remember if you've tried cutting out dairy? I hate suggesting it because it's such a PITA, but it's rare that I haven't seen that work for people.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
we're melting today.

I'm so damn tired of winter









Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
I just managed a successful sleep transfer from car to bed - complete with shoes on. Hope that doesn't wake him up in 5 minutes!

How did it go?


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
I just managed a successful sleep transfer from car to bed - complete with shoes on. Hope that doesn't wake him up in 5 minutes!

Aaahhh, doesn't that feel great?! It's like hitting a homerun or something!

Jaim has been such a great baby for the past week until yesterday. I'm pretty sure it's because I've had a few things with dairy in them. I've been experimenting to figure out exactly what I can eat and what bothers him. Ugh, I was really hoping the dairy thing was all in my head, but it looks like I really do need to stay away from it. The good thing is that I think I can eat things with just a little bit of dairy in them. But I had scrambled eggs (cooked with milk) and pancakes the other day at the ILs, and I think that was going too far? Anyway, now we're just riding out the next few days of fussiness; poor little baby.









He's going to be four months on thursday!

*Shanna*, I don't know if you feel this way, but I really feel like I miss Maev. Especially on these fussy days when I can't even pass the baby to DH. Even though I spend all day with her, I don't feel like I can just focus on her, yk; at least not in the amount that I used to be able to. And I think it's worsened by the fact that this little guy does not nap well at all. There are some days when I just start crying because I miss her so much. She and Dh are much closer now - which is great - but I don't want her to forget about me. I guess I'm a little jealous.


----------



## Angelorum

Dairy- I had to cut it completely with Westley for the first few months. I couldn't even cook with butter, or use margarine with whey in it. Dairy was one of my main sources of protein when I was pregnant, so it was a big adjustment. I was in denial about it making a difference for the longest time too. I can have it in moderation now (oh, how I've missed cheese!), I think I got a little too excited with it last week though, which may have contributed to the fussiness.

We went to the AP playgroup today. I had planned on thursday, but Westley fell asleep 30 min. before it started and there was no way I was waking him up for anything. There was one gal I knew there from LLL, and it was nice to chat with everyone. Definitely going again sometime.

Good luck with the bedtimes everyone, ya'll are making me scared of toddlerhood


----------



## PiePie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
The flip side is my sister's youngest who has slept 12 hours straight since practically birth, and she wasn't thriving for a while.

Can I thank you for this reminder? There has been much talk in my world about Nurture Shock, which I haven't read but intend to (I've got a long list, just like everyone else, I'm sure). Apparently Chapter 2 is about The Lost Hour (of sleep) and how it damages children. Our downstairs neighbor is a child psychologist who used to specialize in sleep (now specializes in giftedness) and his wife made a huge deal at a party this week about the connection between both long and early sleep at a party and sent DH into a bit of a tizzy. To be fair, the adults in our house are not happy with the bedtime situation, and DD is not happy with the morning situation, so something does need to change, but the extra guilt has been loading me down. BTW, she went to bed easily and on time last night when I just cut out the routine!


----------



## accountclosed3

i just realized that i am still not on our facebook!

NAKing, so it's a bit funny.

the rest of our trip has gone great. I think i mentioned that we met producers Barrie Osborne (Lord of the Rings, etc) and Francis Ford Coppola. It was great. So funny. I love how the cosmos works.

We arrive here and we have some temp housing. we are looking for long-term temp, and looking at two apartments.

but, it's hard to get things rolling here. we are applying for temp work visas, then we will be able to buy the business and circumvent any employment laws. ryan's doing consulting work in the US (if anyone needs an editor/writer, let me know! LOL), and we're getting enough pennies to feed and shelter ourselves while still building up savings.

FBI came back--guess what? "cannot be processed!" ack! LOL oh well. what can you do? we have to do it again. With luck, it will come back super quickly and this time with finger prints in tact. i have no clue what that is about. so, our visa is still on hold!

so that's us, enjoying the beach and feijoa ice cream!


----------



## witchygrrl

What a crazy fun time you must be having, Zoe. Hopefully all the little qurks will smooth out, and then you can get on to what you set out to do! You've got guts







I wish I had some like that.

I'm still waiting to hear back to see if I have the job I interviewed for on Tuesday. But last night I was able to sub a class. So that will be a little bit of money, at least. I am definitely thinking that we'll have to put Rhea into daycare this fall, but hopefully not before.

My other big issue is that I cannot get Rhea to gain weght. She's only about a pound heavier than when she was a year old. She's a few inches taller, her hair, eyes, and nails all seem fine, but she's starting to look a little thin. I try to offer her food and boob all day long, but I don't know. I'm getting worried.


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchygrrl* 
What a crazy fun time you must be having, Zoe. Hopefully all the little qurks will smooth out, and then you can get on to what you set out to do! You've got guts







I wish I had some like that.

I'm still waiting to hear back to see if I have the job I interviewed for on Tuesday. But last night I was able to sub a class. So that will be a little bit of money, at least. I am definitely thinking that we'll have to put Rhea into daycare this fall, but hopefully not before.

My other big issue is that I cannot get Rhea to gain weght. She's only about a pound heavier than when she was a year old. She's a few inches taller, her hair, eyes, and nails all seem fine, but she's starting to look a little thin. I try to offer her food and boob all day long, but I don't know. I'm getting worried.

maev got pretty skinny at around 20-24 months. then she chunked up again. I think that they go through phases. She still does -right now she's kind of getting chunky, but I'm sure in a few months I'll think that she's too skinny again. Sometimes she's eating all day and sometimes she could care less about food.

eta: and her weight gain slowed down a whole bunch starting at about 12 months I think.








Hope that helps.


----------



## witchygrrl

A little. Thanks, Maela. Her hunger def goes in phases. But she's never been big or esp chunky. So I guess this is who she is. I'm also struggling a bit because I've not taken her to a doc since her 12 mos. checkup because we need to find one in this area. Her old doc is an hour away and that's not feasible. There is one nearby who is supposedly cool with alt vax decisions, but I just don't know.


----------



## PiePie

Weight gain does slow down substantially in the second year and it's normal. Can you weigh her and see where she falls in the percentile? DD has been the same percentile since 15 mos., was higher on the weight charts before then. Personally I would worry only if she was below 10th percentile.


----------



## cking

Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchygrrl* 

My other big issue is that I cannot get Rhea to gain weght. She's only about a pound heavier than when she was a year old. She's a few inches taller, her hair, eyes, and nails all seem fine, but she's starting to look a little thin. I try to offer her food and boob all day long, but I don't know. I'm getting worried.

She's 18 months, right? This was the same issue with Josephine. She only gained 8 ounces between 12 & 18 month checkups. I was pretty upset about it. Our ped suggested I keep a food diary for a week or two. It actually was pretty helpful - I could see when she was hungriest and what nutrient-dense foods she was most willing to eat. and I started to replace easy snacks like crackers with things like nut butters, cheese, etc. After a month, she gained another 9 ounces. And now, I'm not sure, but I think she's gained another 2-3 lbs since November. I think age and development plays a big part in this too.


----------



## cking

warning: MIL rant coming.









Oy, the drama. We are supposed to get a snow storm tomorrow night into Saturday - up to 12 inches. So, DH calls me today and wants to know what the MWs' plan is - ie, how do they get there. (They've been in their own practice for 19 years and attended over 1100 births, I'm sure some of them have been in the snow&#8230;.). Also, do we want MIL to pick up J tomorrow and take her to her house for the weekend? I should preface this by saying that DH told her on Tuesday that my MW said it could be this weekend. Which is totally not what she said, but whatev. So I know that this was all prompted by a phone call from MIL. I have to "think about it" and get back to DH. I already told him no, but it sounds like she is pressuring him. Or something.

Josephine hasn't even spent one night without us yet, let alone a weekend. And then we'd just sit around twiddling our thumbs waiting for labor to start (and watching basketball and football. Joy.) And then it's very likely we'd have to do this all over again next week when I DO go into labor.

Also, I called my midwife just to appease DH. She was funny. She's not worried in the least and said she would be glad at this point that I'm having a homebirth. I am. {Really, seriously, worst case is that we'd have to get an emergency vehicle to take us to the hospital, which is the worst case scenario anyway. Wtf?}

So now I risk offending MIL (again). I'm kinda pissed. She really hasn't offered to help or asked us what we needed for this baby - except for this one thing. And now it feels like she is saying it has to be on her terms. Like, it's not about helping us out, but about FINALLY getting to spend some time with her granddaughter.

Also, I think I'm going to call our township. The last snowstorm we got, the week before Christmas, they never plowed our street - the snow was here for a week. ANd the freakin plow actually went down our street with his plow UP. We could still get out, it was just a PITA. Anyway.


----------



## witchygrrl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cking* 
She's 18 months, right? This was the same issue with Josephine. She only gained 8 ounces between 12 & 18 month checkups. I was pretty upset about it. Our ped suggested I keep a food diary for a week or two. It actually was pretty helpful - I could see when she was hungriest and what nutrient-dense foods she was most willing to eat. and I started to replace easy snacks like crackers with things like nut butters, cheese, etc. After a month, she gained another 9 ounces. And now, I'm not sure, but I think she's gained another 2-3 lbs since November. I think age and development plays a big part in this too.

The food diary sounds like a really good idea. I keep reading about how hard it is for toddlers to gain weight because they are so active and distractable. And she can be somewhat picky in terms of snacks. I'm going to try that and see how it goes.

And oy about your MIL. Just what you need right now.


----------



## accountclosed3

MIL blech. i know.

mine's being ok. it's because i'm in another country, i'm sure.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
MIL blech. i know.

mine's being ok. it's because i'm in another country, i'm sure.



















You have one of the most challenging mils I know of. Only one I can think of that's more difficult is a friend whose mil engaged in identity and credit card fraud in the name of her son. I guess that would be worse.

Why does my son wake up at 5 am?


----------



## Angelorum

I've said this many times, but I am so grateful to have reasonable, emotionally healthy in-laws! MIL's got her quirks, but she's an IBCLC and a midwife. She came down and did Westley's birth for us, it saved us a ton.

Cking good luck with the birth and the snow and the mil drama! You'll be past it all soon!

We are sick here







Well, I'm not sure that Westley's sick, he doesn't seem to have any congestion, and I guess I wouldn't know if his throat is sore like mine, but he's been fussier and clingier than normal. I hope he doesn't get worse, he's never been sick before.

Did any of you not do well baby visits? I didn't really decide not to ahead of time, but we don't have insurance, and I've never really had any questions or concerns that I couldn't look up myself. It just makes me a little uneasy, but I can't decide why.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 
Did any of you not do well baby visits? I didn't really decide not to ahead of time, but we don't have insurance, and I've never really had any questions or concerns that I couldn't look up myself. It just makes me a little uneasy, but I can't decide why.

We don't. Our ped agrees that if you delay or aren't vaxing, they're a waste of time. I keep a notebook with the boys' weight and height periodically, as well as illness and prophylaxis, and we're really proactive about possible illness, and have excellent nutrition. We do make an initial contact with a ped, so that the boys have a doctor to see in case of serious illness and as documentation if we were ever challenged on our vax decisions.


----------



## Sihaya

We've not done regular well-baby visits. We went intermittently to have his weight checked when I had milk supply issues and we went for a follow-up after he had his seizure and we took him to the ER about a year ago. But we don't vax or plan to and he hasn't been to the doctor since.


----------



## farmama

Quote:

now it feels like she is saying it has to be on her terms
i have had this issue a lot, mostly with my own parents. it's difficult to explain to people that being helpful in a way that isn't needed, and insisting on helping in ways that are all about the helper, isn't really all that helpful...it's mostly frustrating.

How's your snow this morning?


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## MujerMamaMismo

Firstly, I'm here to stalk *Christina*. How are you feeling? How did you resolve your MIL issue. Frankly, I would have thanked her and told her that you'll let her know when she's needed. Worst case scenario is that J is present for the birth, right?

My MIL needed an extra worker in her cafe today and asked if I would do it, if she babysat. DP initially assumed I wouldn't want to but she was wrong. When we called her back, she retracted the offer and went on and on about how she had no help with her children, so why should I....which is all good and well and boo hoo for her, but i can't work if no one is caring for DS. MILs - honestly, they flabbergast me. At 13.5months, this woman has seen DS maybe 10 times and never, ever once come to visit us. Mostly I feel sad for DP when I think about this.
*
Shanna*

Thanks for your support and suggestions re DS and his crappy sleep. Last night he honestly woke up every 10 minutes between 10pm and 3.30am. That's possibly his worst night ever and I cannot work out why.

He is teething at the moment though doesn't seem to actually be cutting any teeth - he's working on his eye teeth but it's taking forever. I know the teething isn't helping, but even when I give him painkillers, his sleep is bad. And even when he's not teething, it's bad. So, I've taken him off dairy, again. And tomato/nightshades again. And in a couple of weeks, I'll take him off wheat if I'm not seeing a decent result. I did this once before and it seemed to help for a week or so but not so much in the long run. Similarly, the first 3 nights this time around were great but the last 2 have been terrible - but I know I have to give it at least a month.

The problem with this is that DS barely eats solids anyway and I'd really like him to start getting a bit more of his nutrition from other foods, rather than breastmilk - particularly because we really are planning to nightwean at 15months. He likes food, but he just likes breastmilk more. What do you feed a wheat, dairy, soy, nightshade free kid? I'm very uninspired. Fruit, roast vegies and beans can only take you so far IYKWIM?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchygrrl* 
A little. Thanks, Maela. Her hunger def goes in phases. But she's never been big or esp chunky. So I guess this is who she is. I'm also struggling a bit because I've not taken her to a doc since her 12 mos. checkup because we need to find one in this area. Her old doc is an hour away and that's not feasible. There is one nearby who is supposedly cool with alt vax decisions, but I just don't know.

Even chunky Sebby, whose diet is still 90% high calorie breastmilk, has not gained weight since he was 9 months old and got really mobile. It's normal, and in his case, I'm pleased. 30 pounds is enough for me. I don't think I could lift him, were he any chubbier!

*Angelorum* I LOVE my natural parenting playgroup. It is my sanity line but it took me a long time to get there with any regularity because of naps etc. It was definitely worth persisting though.


----------



## cking

Still pregnant.









Snow tapered off this afternoon, we got about 12-14 inches. DH was able to use our neighbor's snowblower - actually he used it for our neighbor's driveway too, since he just had shoulder surgery. And one of our neighbors plowed the street with his own plow. So, we seem to be good to go. Now we just need to set up the labor tub.









MIL seemed to be ok with it (I didn't talk to her). But she did say something like "well, you know if it snows I can't come get her." whatever. We should actually be covered during the say for Sunday thru Tuesday, so if she still can't come we can deal. And yeah, I guess the worst case is that J is here for the birth. But she's been incredibly clingy lately, so that'll be hard. She won't even let me eat a meal alone - she climbs up onto my chair and into my (non-existent) lap.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Christina watch.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
So, I've taken him off dairy, again. And tomato/nightshades again. And in a couple of weeks, I'll take him off wheat if I'm not seeing a decent result. I did this once before and it seemed to help for a week or so but not so much in the long run. Similarly, the first 3 nights this time around were great but the last 2 have been terrible - but I know I have to give it at least a month.

I'll only suggest this in case you're so miserable that you'll try anything. If the problem is a digestion/yeast overgrowth problem (which in my experience leads directly to poor sleep, sleep walking, night terrors, among other things), give this a try for a week. It's miserable and it defies what you know about "allergies", but it was the problem for me, Fenton, and a few other people I know. At the risk of sounding like a zealot, our modern diet really does breed this problem, so I don't think I'm off my rocker for thinking most people can benefit from this. So, so sorry Mama.







. A mom I know went through this for 4 years with her DD before she gave the GAPS diet a try, and it's helping remarkably. And if it doesn't help, you'll know you tried the craziest thing that anyone ever suggested







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cking* 
MIL seemed to be ok with it (I didn't talk to her). But she did say something like "well, you know if it snows I can't come get her."

Ah, this makes sense now. She wants plausible deniability.

So, so frustrated. Fenton refuses to nap during the day when he's clearly tired, and he's a monster from 4 pm until bedtime, culminating in a frantically, hysterically tired little boy who won't go to sleep. Ruminating on two choices: not push the nap, and attempt an earlier bedtime (where I fear he'll still fall asleep at the same time, and I'll just be more pissed off after spending 3 hours lying with him, instead of 1.). Second choice is to put him in his room at "nap time" and remove all toys. This would probably "work" but escalate the situation drastically. I don't know how to help him.

I made a disturbing discovery about myself this week. Had a tough time with Fenton where he was clearly starving but wouldn't eat. I'd vowed to keep my cool better than I have been, and I did. In fact, I was a model of mothering perfection in what was a hurricane of a tantrum. He finally ate something and felt immediately better. So I didn't lose it, and i thought I would feel better after the storm settled, grateful that I hadn't lost my temper and yelled.....and I didn't. Days afterward, I still felt unsatisfied that I hadn't yelled. Even now, when our wills collide, I feel my frustration pick back up where I left it. Can it really be that yelling is that satisfying for me? What do I do with that information? I'm shocked and appalled. I think there's some pride wrapped up in it, where I take it personally when he is so out of control. I must think that I "let him get away with it" if I don't let him know how angry I am. He seems to have the opposite of ADHD, where he gets so involved in something that he won't stop to eat or sleep.I've seen him hold food in his hand and refuse to eat it, whilst throwing a hunger tantrum, because he doesn't want to leave the fascinating thing he doing. In crazy moments I've wondered if we should feel him through an IV...

It has opened the door for some interesting conversations between Fenton and I. On the times I've lost my temper and yelled, I always apologize to him and tell him that I hope he'll forgive me, and that there's no excuse for talking to people that way. When I've succeeded in controlling my temper and only speaking firmly about the limits, he has said to me "I'm sorry you're losing your temper", parrotting back what I say when I actually do lose my temper. It has been interesting to explain to him that those are not times when I'm losing my temper. He seems a bit disappointed that I don't always regret when I speak firmly.

But what manners! And what affection! He says to me at almost every meal "Thank you for making this for me Mama. It's so delicious!"







.


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
I'll only suggest this in case you're so miserable that you'll try anything. If the problem is a digestion/yeast overgrowth problem (which in my experience leads directly to poor sleep, sleep walking, night terrors, among other things), give this a try for a week. It's miserable and it defies what you know about "allergies", but it was the problem for me, Fenton, and a few other people I know. At the risk of sounding like a zealot, our modern diet really does breed this problem, so I don't think I'm off my rocker for thinking most people can benefit from this. So, so sorry Mama.







. A mom I know went through this for 4 years with her DD before she gave the GAPS diet a try, and it's helping remarkably. And if it doesn't help, you'll know you tried the craziest thing that anyone ever suggested







.

I don't think you're crazy - but I'm also not quite miserable enough just yet! I am vego and Sebby doesn't like meat so I can see some massive challenges with the GAP diet - on top of the massive challenge that it already is. Questions though - Sebby has always had a 'good,' wholefood based diet so if his gut is leaky, is that because of my diet via breastmilk?

Also, would I see other symptoms? Sebby is very healthy, very happy, developmentally appropriate, during the day. I really don't see any other indicators. He gets a rash around his mouth from tomato - that's really all i can think of.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
I made a disturbing discovery about myself this week. Had a tough time with Fenton where he was clearly starving but wouldn't eat. I'd vowed to keep my cool better than I have been, and I did. In fact, I was a model of mothering perfection in what was a hurricane of a tantrum. He finally ate something and felt immediately better. So I didn't lose it, and i thought I would feel better after the storm settled, grateful that I hadn't lost my temper and yelled.....and I didn't.

Oh - I hear you. I've been in that hell for 9 years (the length of my relationship with DP!) I grew up with yelling. I like to yell. She really doesn't and our fights are soooooooo much worse if I yell so I really try very hard not to. It's gotten a whole lot harder since I quit smoking 4 years ago - I could always have a cigarette to appease the frustration and help myself calm down - now I've got nothing! I'd so love a sound proof yelling chamber...or just one cigarette!! I don't think that discovery is disturbing - truly Shanna. Yelling is not a mortal sin. It's not a great idea to yell at your kids but I think it's a valid way to blow off steam in a general sense. Don't beat yourself up, you're an awesome Mama.









Thinking of you *Christina*. Glad the snow isn't proving too challenging.


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
It has opened the door for some interesting conversations between Fenton and I. On the times I've lost my temper and yelled, I always apologize to him and tell him that I hope he'll forgive me, and that there's no excuse for talking to people that way. When I've succeeded in controlling my temper and only speaking firmly about the limits, he has said to me "I'm sorry you're losing your temper", parrotting back what I say when I actually do lose my temper. It has been interesting to explain to him that those are not times when I'm losing my temper. He seems a bit disappointed that I don't always regret when I speak firmly.

But what manners! And what affection! He says to me at almost every meal "Thank you for making this for me Mama. It's so delicious!"







.

Oh - and this is divine.


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
I made a disturbing discovery about myself this week. Had a tough time with Fenton where he was clearly starving but wouldn't eat. I'd vowed to keep my cool better than I have been, and I did. In fact, I was a model of mothering perfection in what was a hurricane of a tantrum. He finally ate something and felt immediately better. So I didn't lose it, and i thought I would feel better after the storm settled, grateful that I hadn't lost my temper and yelled.....and I didn't. Days afterward, I still felt unsatisfied that I hadn't yelled. Even now, when our wills collide, I feel my frustration pick back up where I left it. Can it really be that yelling is that satisfying for me? What do I do with that information? I'm shocked and appalled. I think there's some pride wrapped up in it, where I take it personally when he is so out of control. I must think that I "let him get away with it" if I don't let him know how angry I am.

i don't think this is awful. I have noticed the same thing about myself.


----------



## witchygrrl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 

Even chunky Sebby, whose diet is still 90% high calorie breastmilk, has not gained weight since he was 9 months old and got really mobile. It's normal, and in his case, I'm pleased. 30 pounds is enough for me. I don't think I could lift him, were he any chubbier!


I think I'd worry less if Rhea were 30 lbs. But she's between 20 and 21 lbs. I get the idea though.


----------



## cking

Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchygrrl* 
I think I'd worry less if Rhea were 30 lbs. But she's between 20 and 21 lbs. I get the idea though.









exact same weight that Josephine was at that age. And she was always a 'bigger' baby, so I get it. I think you'll see a spurt soon.


----------



## cking

today is my due date. hmm. I wonder if I'll make it to my 40 week appt on Tuesday after all.


----------



## witchygrrl

hoping it happens soon for you, cking. and thanks for the support wrt Rhea's weight. I feel in my gut she's fine, but I'm a worrywart, I guess.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
Questions though - Sebby has always had a 'good,' wholefood based diet so if his gut is leaky, is that because of my diet via breastmilk?

Also, would I see other symptoms? Sebby is very healthy, very happy, developmentally appropriate, during the day. I really don't see any other indicators. He gets a rash around his mouth from tomato - that's really all i can think of.

I know with Fenton, we only in hindsight saw symptoms of restless sleep until he was just under two years old (thought it was teething at the time). Around his second birthday we started seeing increasing eczema. Now, we look for symptoms lining up of diarrhea, diaper rash, eczema and disrupted sleep that seem close to night terrors (symptoms he hasn't had in months







). With me, the symptoms were acne, sleepwalking and 2 miscarriages where something clearly went more wrong than just "things not lining up right".Other people I've known have had the sleep issues, as well as skin issues like dandruff, and then there's the obvious yeast and digestive trouble: yeast infections, IBS, Crohns, Colitis.....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
Oh - I hear you. I've been in that hell for 9 years (the length of my relationship with DP!) I grew up with yelling. I like to yell. She really doesn't and our fights are soooooooo much worse if I yell so I really try very hard not to. It's gotten a whole lot harder since I quit smoking 4 years ago - I could always have a cigarette to appease the frustration and help myself calm down - now I've got nothing! I'd so love a sound proof yelling chamber...or just one cigarette!! I don't think that discovery is disturbing - truly Shanna. Yelling is not a mortal sin. It's not a great idea to yell at your kids but I think it's a valid way to blow off steam in a general sense. Don't beat yourself up, you're an awesome Mama.







.

I come from yellers too







. DH and my first year of marriage was so hard because he refused to fight that way, thank god. I'm not so much worried about yelling occasionally as much as it being my modus operandi. It creates a very tense atmosphere for everyone, and it shows Fenton that is how to deal with frustration. I also know that in the moment I'm yelling, I'm not aware of his humanity - I can feel myself objectifying him, does that make sense? I'm grateful for the times he sees that I'm human, but I'd rather they are the exception rather than the rule. I'm just so shocked to find that yelling is an itch that I can want to scratch for days afterward. I'm not a particularly angry person, so it's so....surprising. Thanks for the love MMM







. I find humility to be the biggest lesson of parenthood - just striving to do no harm each day.

Christina watch.


----------



## cking

Still pregnant.








I'm kind of feeling on edge today. It's probably part cabin fever, since I've been inside for 3 days straight, other than a brief period of snow playing yesterday. But now I totally understand what you meant, Shanna, when you said you were wishing to go into labor to give you a break from your child.







Dh is working from home now, and that's harder than it should be. DD wants to play with him, and he still just doesn't get some things, like understanding DD's rhythm. He tried to get her to nap on his own on Sat, but without eating lunch. How on earth did he expect her to sleep without food OR nursing?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
Other people I've known have had the sleep issues, as well as skin issues like dandruff, and then there's the obvious yeast and digestive trouble: yeast infections, IBS, Crohns, Colitis.....

thanks for running down your experience and others. Do you think the diet is helpful for those who have already had bowel surgery?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
I come from yellers too







. DH and my first year of marriage was so hard because he refused to fight that way, thank god.

This was us too. Now, somehow, the tables seem to be turned. I do often catch myself yelling at dd out of frustration, but it seems like DH does it more often, and usually expecting results from it. And then there are the times when he's yelling at me with her nearby; I wish he could see how upset it makes her.


----------



## accountclosed3

things are progressing here.

i think i mentioned that we decided to not buy the apt and to rent for a while instead. had some bad luck, but now very good. the place we found (and we're looking at another today) has a *huge* kitchen, is basically an all-newly done apt in a 100 yr old building.

it's actually quite large overall. we were surprised after the other places that we'd seen around town for the same price or only slightly less. the only down side is carpet.

it's also in a nifty walking-path-only spot right next to a tiny little park with lots of shade, but the house gets a lot of light. it is north-east facing, so it does well pretty much all day.

actually, here's the listing for the apartment: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=269128714

so, it looks like we might go with this spot. i am talking with local gardeners to see if we can boost up the garden a bit. right now, it just looks like a little unkept field with trees. i think that a nice children's shade garden would be lovely. so, i'm going to see what we can put together between the city council and the various community gardening groups. i think it has too much shade to be a food garden.

anyway, it's a good option. and about 10 minutes from work.


----------



## cking

zoebird, that looks like a really nice place. so cool that it's on a walking path.

I'm curious - did you sell your Prius or are you shipping it?


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
I'm not so much worried about yelling occasionally as much as it being my modus operandi. It creates a very tense atmosphere for everyone, and it shows Fenton that is how to deal with frustration. I also know that in the moment I'm yelling, I'm not aware of his humanity - I can feel myself objectifying him, does that make sense? I'm grateful for the times he sees that I'm human, but I'd rather they are the exception rather than the rule. I'm just so shocked to find that yelling is an itch that I can want to scratch for days afterward. I'm not a particularly angry person, so it's so....surprising.

Oh yes. I hear what you're saying. It was definitely modus operandi for my mum. She's dealt with a lot of guilt, and a load of baggage since our childhood.

The parenting and rage issue is so interesting. I know we've discussed it here before. I had no idea I could be so angry. I had no idea I was so angry. I'm not yet guilty of yelling at DS but I have certainly been too rough and too tearse (I save my yelling for the dog and DP whose fault I can make anything







) in times of rage and frustration and it's completely dehumanising of DS - I've never had the words for it before - thanks for that(!) - and in the hours or even days afterwards I'll be ruminating on how sweet he is and how much I love him and I can barely believe I had these other, completely disconnected feelings toward him. And he's just a baby. It really isn't his fault.

DS nearly drowned yesterday, it was awful and happened in a split second. We were playing in the toddler pool and I was playing with my friends daughter and my friend was playing with DS. The was a bee chasing us (friends daughter and I) and as I was bouncing around trying to get out of the path of the bee, my friend got distracted by us - as you would if your child was being chased by a bee. I turned around and there was Sebby floating face down, but fighting desperately to get up. We think he'd probably been like that for about a minute. I'm furious with the lifeguards who didn't notice a thing until we pulled him out of the water. Fortunately he was still conscious but with lungs full of water which he threw up for about 10 minutes. Horrible horrible. 20 minutes later, he was happily back in the pool having, seemingly, forgotten the trauma. I'm not going to forget it quickly. I can't get that image out of my head.
*
zoebird* - gorgeous gorgeous apartment. but holy expensive rent batman. I thought we paid ridiculous rent but we have a house with a garden for only another $100/week. I knew NZ was expensive but I had no idea how expensive!


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Looks like you'll be making that Tuesday midwife appt, Christina. Thinking of you. xo


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
DS nearly drowned yesterday, it was awful and happened in a split second. We were playing in the toddler pool and I was playing with my friends daughter and my friend was playing with DS. The was a bee chasing us (friends daughter and I) and as I was bouncing around trying to get out of the path of the bee, my friend got distracted by us - as you would if your child was being chased by a bee. I turned around and there was Sebby floating face down, but fighting desperately to get up. We think he'd probably been like that for about a minute. I'm furious with the lifeguards who didn't notice a thing until we pulled him out of the water. Fortunately he was still conscious but with lungs full of water which he threw up for about 10 minutes. Horrible horrible. 20 minutes later, he was happily back in the pool having, seemingly, forgotten the trauma. I'm not going to forget it quickly. I can't get that image out of my head.
*
*
*
*
*
I feel frantic for you. How horrible. Is he okay? Are you and DP????? I still can remember the moment when I knew we'd been in a car accident, turning around to see if Fenton was okay. Longest moment of my life.

Christina, so much to say about....everything. Hope to be back later. Doing bedtime on my own tonight and it's time. But: he napped today! And has been more like himself for it.*


----------



## Holiztic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 

DS nearly drowned yesterday, it was awful and happened in a split second. We were playing in the toddler pool and I was playing with my friends daughter and my friend was playing with DS. The was a bee chasing us (friends daughter and I) and as I was bouncing around trying to get out of the path of the bee, my friend got distracted by us - as you would if your child was being chased by a bee. I turned around and there was Sebby floating face down, but fighting desperately to get up. We think he'd probably been like that for about a minute. I'm furious with the lifeguards who didn't notice a thing until we pulled him out of the water. Fortunately he was still conscious but with lungs full of water which he threw up for about 10 minutes. Horrible horrible. 20 minutes later, he was happily back in the pool having, seemingly, forgotten the trauma. I'm not going to forget it quickly. I can't get that image out of my head.


MMM: _I_ can't get that image out of my head, and I have never met you/Sebby. I am so sad for you, so happy he's okay, but so sad that you have the image/memory. Just keep hugging and kissing him, it'll fade over time!


----------



## cking

MMM, so glad Sebby is ok. So sorry you and he went through that.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Christina, stop posting at odd hours!!!!!







You get me all


----------



## witchygrrl

MMM, oh my goodness. I'm so glad Sebby's okay!


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Holiztic* 
MMM: _I_ can't get that image out of my head, and I have never met you/Sebby. I am so sad for you, so happy he's okay, but so sad that you have the image/memory. Just keep hugging and kissing him, it'll fade over time!









So glad he's okay.


----------



## cking

Nothing happening here. Went to mw appt today. We had the castor oil talk.







(Maybe if I make it to next Wednesday we'll try it...) Just waiting around to get through the next snow storm...


----------



## accountclosed3

i'm also glad that Seb is ok!

yes, it is high rent. nz is expensive and we did choose to live *in* the city. i can pay the same amount for a house and garden in one of the burbs, btu i didn't move to the other side of the planet to live the burbs. i already lived in the burbs and didn't care for it. so, just like moving to any city, the costs go up!









but, it's also rent that we can currently afford, so it's going ok. it's also about what housing would cost when/if we buy, since we've been talking to an agent about that. he's a helpful young man (he's, like, 27--so cute). so, it's really helping us get our heads around the numbers.

also, remember that NZ $ are not as strong as US or Aus, so value-wise, it's probably on par. Value wise for us, it's definitely MUCH less than we would spend on a similar space in philadelphia! in fact, it's the same price as apartments in our area (where we moved from) or slightly less. we lived in a pretty expensive area.









now, the Saarinen adventure.









i have to share because it is funny. maybe only funny to me, but anyway.

so, i tell ryan that a Saarinen tulip table would be perfect for the bay window as our dining/working table. he agrees. i go, wouldn't it be cool if we found one on trademe?

about 10 seconds later, i pop over to trademe and a Saarinen table is advertised. 48 in and 6 tulip chairs. i figured i could use the chairs at the office, and use the table at home, and all is well. i ask a question to the guy--is it Knoll marked? how old is it?

so, he writes back that it is unmarked completely, but he is *sure* that it's authentic and doesn't know the age but he got it second hand 15 years ago. asking $2,500.

now, i grant you that an authentic, antique/retro Saarinen with the white laminate top and 6 authentic chairs would be a STEAL at $2500. but, for knock offs that are old, not so much. a new knock off of high quality of the same set would be about $1500.

this, btw, is NZD i'm talking about.

so, i put in a bid for $500. the guy ultimately declines my bid (he had a reserve so he reserves the right to do so), and then calls me and we chat. i tell him it's not authentic without knoll marks, and that a knock off isn't worth that much money. he tells me that he bought it from a guy who *swore* it was authentic and that it's a bargain either way because a new knoll saarinen would easily be $4k USD of which i'm really aware of course. LOL old knoll saarinen, depending upon the age, varies in price from priceless to junk depending upon condition.

but knock offs basically have *no value* other than the value of the table itself as a working table. so the whole set really wasn't worth more than $500, and a new knock-off set could be purchased for $1500.

then he breaks into a song and dance about the economy, retirement, needin to make money, not wanting to part with his "authentic" saarinen but needing the cash. and i'm like "dude, no dice, it ain't real and it ain't worth more than $500. take or leave."

he left it, put up ANOTHER auction for $1500 (i told him the value of a new knock off), claiming it was authentic!

and then, he write a comment on my profile that i was rude! so now, you can click on me and see his feedback. he said i questioned the authenticity and pricing of his object. i thought it just makes good sense!

LOL anyay. . .too forward i guess.


----------



## Angelorum

Oh goodness MMM, I'm so glad he's alright. I'm terrified of drowning, I nearly did it myself when I was 14 and I can't imagine seeing my baby in trouble in the water!

dh and I went over our financials today. It was one part depressing, one part relief at having a (sort of) plan in place. It would be much easier if we knew when and how much money we could plan on, but that's one of the downsides to dh being self employed. The benefits of being self employed though are definitely worth the budgeting issues.

I've had to reset my expectations of Westley's sleeping schedule a couple times this past week. I got so frustrated the other night when he was so tired and just wouldn't stop fighting it. I think shanna has it right on the money, about how frustration can make you stop seeing your child as a human. Not a proud moment.

Good luck Christina! I'm hoping the castor oil can just stay right where it is for you!


----------



## witchygrrl

Zoe, what a weird guy! People will do anything to make a buck, I guess. It would be cool if you found a real one, though









Now Rhea's having trouble sleeping. She had a bit of a stuffy nose, but I don't know that that's the whole story. Anyway, we all had a miserable night last night.

Christina, thinking of you...


----------



## farmama

mmm,

Sooooo glad he's okay. what a terrifying experience.


----------



## farmama

cking,










are you up to your armpits in snow yet?


----------



## witchygrrl

Nope, Rhea has a cold all right. DH had taken her to an indoor playground, and there was a girl who coughed on her and everything else. Awesome. And the ILs are supposed to come this weekend, so even more joy.

Hoping Christina is having a baby right now!


----------



## cking

No baby for me today, it seems. Still digging out from lots of snow (well, they are, I'm just hanging out at home.)


----------



## farmama

Cking,

that little one is smart-waiting until the hub bub subsides.









Drink some cocoa and take a nap







(if you can)


----------



## accountclosed3

we are still trying to sell the prius. you interested?









bought the bed; should be here in two weeks. bought the table (or, i'm leading on it--and it's not the saarinen knock off that is basically worthless but the guy wants thousands for), and i'm looking at a lounge set but ryan's feeling hesitant. LOL

hawk is *loving* the beach. i've been trying to teach him to swim a bit . . .blowing bubbles and such. but that's about it. i love to swim, so i definitely want to teach him (for safety and fun reasons).

oh, and yesterday we did laundry in the YHA, and i usually close the door. both ryan and i were in there, and hawk was one moment playing with the laundry basket, and then the next, ryan was like "where is hawk?" and i didn't know. He'd opened the door (first time for that), ran down the hall, got on the elevator, and ended up on the ground floor!

the ground floor's front door is wide open and opens onto a street.

thankfully, one of the hostel workers grabbed him and then made an announcement over the intercom. i was screaming down the stairs and running each hall way as quickly as possible, while ryan was waiting for the elevator to head to the ground floor and check the kitchens and front area.

literally, it was like 5 minutes. but of terror!

so, there's no rest now! LOL


----------



## Holiztic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
we are still trying to sell the prius. you interested?









bought the bed; should be here in two weeks. bought the table (or, i'm leading on it--and it's not the saarinen knock off that is basically worthless but the guy wants thousands for), and i'm looking at a lounge set but ryan's feeling hesitant. LOL

hawk is *loving* the beach. i've been trying to teach him to swim a bit . . .blowing bubbles and such. but that's about it. i love to swim, so i definitely want to teach him (for safety and fun reasons).

oh, and yesterday we did laundry in the YHA, and i usually close the door. both ryan and i were in there, and hawk was one moment playing with the laundry basket, and then the next, ryan was like "where is hawk?" and i didn't know. He'd opened the door (first time for that), ran down the hall, got on the elevator, and ended up on the ground floor!

the ground floor's front door is wide open and opens onto a street.

thankfully, one of the hostel workers grabbed him and then made an announcement over the intercom. i was screaming down the stairs and running each hall way as quickly as possible, while ryan was waiting for the elevator to head to the ground floor and check the kitchens and front area.

literally, it was like 5 minutes. but of terror!

so, there's no rest now! LOL

Between Sebby and Hawk--what's going on over in that part of the world???

Glad you got to him (relatively) quickly, so sorry for your terror! I am amazed he made it that far, though.


----------



## accountclosed3

i was amazed he made it that far too! today, he started walking off with another family. i happened to be in the bathroom and ryan was talking to a friend (see? see?)

the bottom line is we need to pay closer attention to him while we are out.

no crises today. great time at the park.


----------



## farmama

*


----------



## TwilightJoy

Checking in on Christina. I know of 3 baby girls IRL born today, a single and a set of twins. Plus today is the birthday of 2 women I'm really close to. Seems like it's a good day to be born.


----------



## Angelorum

Just checking in for news.

And, I managed to get Westley into a back carry in a wrap by myself today at work! Yippy!


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 







Just checking in for news.

And, I managed to get Westley into a back carry in a wrap by myself today at work! Yippy!









I've never been able to do it by myself.









*ZB*, how scary!! I'm glad he was okay.


----------



## Sihaya

here too

Today is a pretty good day to be born, if I do say so myself


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## cking

just checking in. no labor yet.









Steph, today is your bday right? Happy Birthday!!!

I was thinking it might be today (a couple weeks ago) but nothing yet. Eh.

ZB, we aren't in the market for another car right now







, but if I hear of anyone, i'll let you know. (We aren't that far from where you used to live.) We







our Prius and can't recommend it enough...recalls and all.


----------



## cking

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 

And, I managed to get Westley into a back carry in a wrap by myself today at work! Yippy!

that's awesome! I hope I am able to do this..if not with a wrap at least a MT. I just made another one because I learned you need a 'tall bodied' MT for a newborn high back carry.


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## Angelorum

cking, I have been meaning to make a MT for easier back carries for a couple of weeks now, but other projects keep interrupting.


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## Maela

happy birthday steph!


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## witchygrrl

happy birthday Steph!

Zoe, glad Hawk was found so quick! yikes!


----------



## Rico'sAlice

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cking* 
that's awesome! I hope I am able to do this..if not with a wrap at least a MT. I just made another one because I learned you need a 'tall bodied' MT for a newborn high back carry.


Hmmm. I always used a normal MT, and just tied it above the bust instead of around the waist. It seems like a tall body one would give the babe too much room to slip around. Are you supposed to fold it down or something?


----------



## cking

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rico'sAlice* 
Hmmm. I always used a normal MT, and just tied it above the bust instead of around the waist. It seems like a tall body one would give the babe too much room to slip around. Are you supposed to fold it down or something?

well, this was based on the fact that my other mei tai (which was made using this tutorial) was extra short-bodied. By tall bodied I mean Kozy-size - not super tall, but with enough room to fold the bottom straps up under the baby's bottom. The way I understand it, if the top straps are tied snugly around the baby's back they won't be able to slip around.


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## cking

might be in early labor - having somewhat irregular ctxns. MIL just came to pick up J.







: Kinda hoping this picks up soon.


----------



## Maela

oooh, I hope it picks up soon for you!! How exciting!! I'll be thinking about you all day!


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## Holiztic

Come on little King! Thinking about you, too!


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## cking

nothing changing yet; still irregular. just resting.


----------



## witchygrrl

hoping things pick up for you soon, cking.

I am hating this snus infection. Oy.


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## MujerMamaMismo

Thinking wonderful, calm, peaceful birthing thoughts as the newest member of the royal family prepares for landing.

Hope it's awesome, Christina. xox


----------



## farmama

Cking,

rest well and have a great birth!









Happy Birthday Steph!


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## PiePie

think we'll (this tribe, not my family) be welcoming a v-day love bug!


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## cking

He's here!

Baby boy King was born at 8:32 pm. Very quick - midwife arrived at 7:45. Not sure how long 'active labor' was. Still working on a name, hopefully we'll decide by the morning. oh, 8 lb, 12 oz.


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## MujerMamaMismo

Wonderful news! Welcome baby king. Enjoy your babymoon, mama.


----------



## Sihaya

Congratulations, Christina and welcome baby boy!


----------



## farmama

Congratulations Christina!








Welcome Little one!!!!


----------



## ~Shanna~

Welcome Prince of the Royal family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



















































What a fast labor, can't wait to hear the details!


----------



## Holiztic




----------



## witchygrrl

congratulations!!!!!!!!


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## Angelorum

Hurray, Welcome baby boy!


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## Maela

CONGRATULATIONS CHRISTINA!!


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## MujerMamaMismo

Can't wait to hear the birth story and whatever Princely name you've come up with *Christina*. Hope your early moments have been wonderful.

Belated birthday love for you, too, *Steph*!

*Shanna!* I hate that you were right. All of a sudden, Sebby has a million and one allergy symptoms. Hives all over him, diarrhea, dark eyes, nappy rash - all these things, he has NEVER had before the last week. We've definitely isolated egg as a problem - he ate one on Saturday (not his first, but probably ate the largest amount ever) and was violently ill straight away. If only isolating all his intolerances were that simple. I'm going to take him to his awesome doctor today - I need someone to crack the whip because I'm in total denial about what all of this means.

*Angelorum* - Just wanted to say that we've recently gotten serious about our financial position and it was hard work to move from denial and not wanting to deal with the reality but a month in and I'm feeling so much more empowered and positive about it all. I hate money stuff and so does DP and as a result, we let our credit card debt go crazy and refused to even consider the possibility of buying a house...after all, on one income, is that even possible? Now though, we have a plan to be out of consumer debt by the end of the year and saving for a deposit on a house. It'll probably take us 5 years to save the deposit (we live in super high COL area) but we weren't getting anywhere by pretending it wasn't an issue!

Somehow that became about me, but what I wanted to say was kudos to you. Getting serious about money is a good thing!


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
*Shanna!* I hate that you were right. All of a sudden, Sebby has a million and one allergy symptoms. Hives all over him, diarrhea, dark eyes, nappy rash - all these things, he has NEVER had before the last week. We've definitely isolated egg as a problem - he ate one on Saturday (not his first, but probably ate the largest amount ever) and was violently ill straight away. If only isolating all his intolerances were that simple. I'm going to take him to his awesome doctor today - I need someone to crack the whip because I'm in total denial about what all of this means.

Oh NO!







I really do wish every time that I give this advice that I _am_ just being the crazy lady with the hammer.

My gut issues when I got pregnant with Fenton were horrible, so we might be a "worst case scenario" example. PM me if you want more info on what our experience was. The downside is that our journey sucked, but the upside is that, unlike everyone I know who deals with "true" food allergies, our situation has been curable. I was healed in 18 months. Fenton and I both test negative for "food allergies", if that helps you at all.

Happy birthday Steph!


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## MujerMamaMismo

Thanks Shanna, I've no doubt you'll be getting more than one PM from me in the next little while!

Thought this blog entry I stumbled across may resonate with some of you - Quantity Time.


----------



## cking

So his name is Nicholas Thomas. I posted some pics on FB but for aanyone not on there, here are a few faves:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_hYY6vsWiyG0/S3...0/DSC00038.JPG
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_hYY6vsWiyG0/S3...0/DSC00056.JPG
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_hYY6vsWiyG0/S3...0/DSC00018.JPG


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## cking

Josephine was awesome. She has really taken to her little bro and was very curious about him.

He's pretty cool. Nursed well, slept well.

MIL has already asked the circumcision question: Not if, but when?














I should have just deferred her to Tom, but instead I said he won't be. She just looked away, and I heard GMIL said "mmm-hmm" under her breath (disapprovingly). Sheesh. With all the things she *won't* talk to me about, she picks this one to ask me instead of him.

hoping to update soon with birth story/details.


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## Maela

How annoying about your ILs and the circ discussion.









I told you on FB already, but those are lovely pictures!


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## witchygrrl

so ridiculous about the circ'ing thing. But how sweet are your pics!


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## Angelorum

what a precious little guy! I love the picture of him and josephine.

MMM-that's awesome that you'll be out of consumer debt by the end of the year. It's going to take us...longer than that. Sigh. But, at the same time I'm glad I know now. I kept putting purchases for things we need off until we were caught up, but I had no real idea when that would be. Now that I know being caught up is a long way off and how much money we have, I feel like we can responsibly save and purchase those needed items without so much guilt. Is that strange, or what? While I was checking up on things yesterday I discovered my absent minded dh had paid one of his school loan bills 3 times this month! Not only that, it's been paid twice in January and December as well. Luckily we still have enough to cover all the rest of the bills this month, but that money could have gone toward worse debt than school loans. I tried really hard not to get too frustrated at him, I guess it's better to pay a bill too often than to get stuck with a late fee for forgetting to pay at all.

Westley has started to push up onto hands and knees when he's on his belly. It's so fun to watch, he gets so excited about it! I just hope I still have at least a month before he really starts crawling. When he's mobile, I'm going to have to rethink my work strategy, there's not really any way to keep him out of things at work unless I bought a pack n play or a pen or something, and I really don't want to do that.


----------



## accountclosed3

so, my butt looks great.

there are a lot of steps to our house, but i'm less winded now (when carrying hawk in a wrap and a back pack full of whatever.







i'm def looking leaner. lol!

looks like we're getting the table, and i talked with a guy to make some pegs and shoe racks for us (shaker style pegs and a cabinet for shoes/bags). went ahead and got (expensive) dressers instead of inexpensive closet organizers--ryan's choice.

learning the bus system quickly too. and, the apt is so easy to keep clean.

big fun--LIBRARY!







i love the library. they have a music based play group and the story time.

hawk has had it with the internet cafe. we should be up and running by next week at the latest.

ttfn~


----------



## cking

Nicholas' Birth Story

Not great writing, I know, but I wanted to get it written down. Now I just have to write Josephine's birth story.


----------



## arelyn

Welcome Nicholas!!!









I too LOVE the picture of J holding her new brother. Too, too cute!









In us news it looks like we've weaned. I'm still not sure if I'm happy (I can eat wheat) or sad (my baby is growing up) but it was time. Nursing went from Kai's favourite thing in the world (He'd even pray "Thank you for Mama and Papa and Kai and nursing. Kai a loves nursing.") to a real frustration. He's not a comfort nurser. He's in it for the bedtime snack so when my supply was low this month we tried not nursing for a couple nights and it wasn't a big deal at all. He's only nursed twice ince then and the last time was a week ago so I guess we're done.


----------



## PiePie

happy 2 1/2, kai!

wow on the weaning *arelyn*. just wow. i toy with the idea but am not there yet. i am pretty clear that if there is no mother-led weaning she will be nursing for longer than i am comfortable with. i do feel very touched out after the bedtime routine and suspect that the nursing/chomping/twiddling may be part of it.

in the 2ww. do not feel pregnant at all. this whole ttcing thing is a bitch for me this time around. on vitex. taking more calcium than i had been.


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Vitex is what did it for me PiePie.


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

So, I lost the plot, entirely. I didn't realise just how much until I called myself in for a night off. I was not being a good Mama. I was being a terrible partner. I was so negative and impossible to be around. I couldn't even make a decision about wanting tea or coffee.

So I jumped online, booked a decent hotel and left DP and DS home alone for the night. I was prepared for the worst. I had every expectation that we'd all end up sleeping in that hotel at 2am but it was way better than i could have expected. I drank half a bottle of wine to take the edge off the fretting and watched crappy tv until I fell asleep. I slept for almost 4 hours then woke up for 2 (after all, I don't really know how to sleep for more than an hour at a time anymore) and then slept for another 3. I don't feel especially refreshed and I'm certainly still painfully tired but 12 hours alone gave me perspective and I'm shocked at how much my approach has changed. I am nice. I am loving. I can make a decision. I'm not exploding at the smallest frustration. I never thought I'd be able to leave DS overnight this early, and I've certainly felt judged by some for doing it, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Meanwhile, back at home, DP fought with DS until midnight to get him to sleep but then he woke up just twice, resettled himself once and had a couple of sips of water and went back to sleep a second later for the other. This is a *miracle* and makes me much more confident about our plans to nightwean next month. I feel like there's light at the end of this tunnel.

All DS's rashes have gone and he's much happier too. I think he has food intolerances which mostly arise when he's teething or otherwise immune compromised. For now we're going with our gut and eliminating the foods we're sure of and just being careful/moderate with a few others. He has an appt with his awesome doctor next week and I suspect he'll give advice to that effect anyway. Of course, it hasn't escaped me that happier mama = happier baby.

Filled out my paperwork to get started on the Breastfeeding counselling training yesterday AND got my acceptance for doula training. Counselling training starts ASAP and doula training in the second week of March. How exciting!!!

Wondering how Christina and Nicholas are going?

And PiePie's TWW?


----------



## accountclosed3

MMM:

I think it sounds like you did exactly the right thing.

For us, getting a house was really necessary. by house, i simply mean place to live. it's an apartment. LOL anyway, prior to that, we were so stressed and poor hawk was getting the short end of the stick. one day, he just communicated that to me, and i realized that he was feeling very neglected. so, we cuddled and i made a point to do that every day since. it's been about a week and some of that and he's feeling good again.

in fact, all of us are. we have a lot to do, but we get it done slowly. just one big thing a day. and, we aren't fighting as much or anything. we are starting to find a family rhythm. and, able to communicate because we actually spend time together. and, ryan sees what work i'm actually doing, now that he's around while i do it. so, it's been going well.

we really should get internet next week. we were supposed to have it on tuesday, but the connection isn't right (on their end) and so they have to send someone out Mon/Tues this week. we can't wait to have internet at home!


----------



## snozzberry

It's been like A YEAR since I've visited my favorite tribe of mamas. I have missed you! But for those of you on Facebook, I have been keeping up with you that way to get my NMY "fix".









I had some personal projects ramp up at the beginning of 2009, which meant I had to carve out some of my already limited free time to work on those. I'm finally starting to find a balance, so I want to get back in the habit of visiting this wonderful thread.

I'm off to catch up on this thread a bit, but just wanted to pop in!

p.s. Abby turned TWO this week! Holy smokes.


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

That's so funny snozz! I was planning on posting a 'where are you?' post in the next couple of days, and there you are! Psychic! Glad to see you back here. And happy 2nd birthday to Abby xxx

There's others missing too? BlizzardBabe for starters? Where are you all?


----------



## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
That's so funny snozz! I was planning on posting a 'where are you?' post in the next couple of days, and there you are! Psychic! Glad to see you back here. And happy 2nd birthday to Abby xxx

xxx back to you!








It's so good to talk to you after so many months of just reading blog posts & looking at Facebook photos!

I have so missed this amazing group of ladies we have here, but I just was not prioritizing checking in here on my loooong to-do list every day. Which was so dumb because it only hurt me in the end not to have you in my life every step of the way. Cuz, as you know, it's hard when you're the only one IRL parenting the way you are.

So I caught up on this thread and had to chime in on a few things, sorry I'm a little late to the game on some of this!

*Christina*, you have a baby boy! Holy moly! I had seen you were preggers on Facebook, but didn't realize he'd arrived yet. A BIG CONGRATS! That picture of J with N is just ADORABLE. I'm so so happy for you!

So many new babies since last time I was here.









*arelyn*, a (bittersweet?) congrats on the weaning...such a huge milestone so your mixed feelings completely make sense to me, at least.

*Steph*, another babe due in October, yay!

*zoebird*, we are having similar questioning thoughts about the size of our family. We thought we wanted 2, but now we just can't see ourselves going thru all that with another one. I think our change of heart is all based on fear and laziness tho.









*PiePie*, *MujerMamaMismo*, and everyone else dealing with bedtime issues: I FEEL YOUR PAIN. Lordy, do I.


----------



## PiePie

not pregnant, have af. made me feel self-hatred and isolated and is straining my relationship with dh. ttcing just is an emotional rollercoaster for me. trying to renew my faith in god. went to church yesterday for the first time in almost a year -- had been avoiding because gd didn't feel appropriate there and expectations were not developmentally right for dd. feel somewhat better.


----------



## Sihaya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
There's others missing too? BlizzardBabe for starters? Where are you all?

Don't want to post anyone else's news, but would suggest viewing some of BB's recent posts if you'd like to know what's up with her









*snozzberry* - So good to see you here!

*PiPie* -


----------



## witchygrrl

PiePie-









So I had an appt with Rhea's new ped. We're going back in 3 months to see if she gains enough weight, and also to see about how her speech is coming along. I haven't really talked about this, but it seems like her comprehension is boundless, and she says new stuff all the time, it's just that she doesn't say too many things consistently. He finds that a little odd, but he's confident that she'll be fine. At the same time, I wouldn't mind having her evaluated if this continues. But otherwise, she's fine







He did give me a lecture on vaccines, but respects my decision. So I guess he'll do. He is a very nice guy, which helps.


----------



## snozzberry

*PiePie*,









*witchygrrl*, does Rhea do any signs? I've heard that can delay speech, and I definitely saw that with Abby.


----------



## witchygrrl

*snozz*, no Rhea doesn't really sign, though she does point a lot. She'll come out with something, and then not say it again. Like today, she told me, "nice job!" but who knows when we'll hear that again...it's just odd.


----------



## PiePie

*witchy*, how old is Rhea again? We were worried about DD's speech for a while there too. She had used more than 100 words, but it was a bit of here today, gone tomorrow. Our ped told us that was normal when she was having a push forward in another area (in her case, gross motor) during the gone tomorrow part. She just focused on her physical stuff a lot more at first. I do have a list that a ST I know shared of board books she uses with the under 2 set with speech delays. Let me know if you are interested. It might just make you feel more stressed. It helped me to check books out of the library because then I felt like I was doing something and I had a concrete, harmless direction to channel my anxiety.


----------



## cking

Snozz! So nice to see you back here. Thank you for the congrats.









Piepie, Sorry about AF.









Nicholas and I are doing well, as a pair. But, the rest of our family, I'm not so sure about. J has been having some issues with getting to sleep lately, and DH has been having some anger issues - with her and with me. He was talking nonsense last night about sleep training and whatnot. He doesn't really understand regression, I guess. And he doesn't understand how mature and independent our little girl really is and how AP has played a huge part in that this far. Argh. I'm starting to look fwd to him going back to work next week, but I'm also panicking a little because I have no idea how I'll handle it. It stinks that it's winter and crappy weather and J really really needs to get to some playgrounds. DH took her to a children's museum today, so that was nice.

Anyway, I hope you all are well...I'm following along, but having trouble finding time to post. you know how it is.


----------



## witchygrrl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
*witchy*, how old is Rhea again? We were worried about DD's speech for a while there too. She had used more than 100 words, but it was a bit of here today, gone tomorrow. Our ped told us that was normal when she was having a push forward in another area (in her case, gross motor) during the gone tomorrow part. She just focused on her physical stuff a lot more at first. I do have a list that a ST I know shared of board books she uses with the under 2 set with speech delays. Let me know if you are interested. It might just make you feel more stressed. It helped me to check books out of the library because then I felt like I was doing something and I had a concrete, harmless direction to channel my anxiety.

She's almost 19 months And of course, she had a really verbal day today, too. I think she's really ahead on the physical stuff, so maybe she's following L's pattern. Pm me that list--I'll take a look


----------



## Maela

Maev's been asking some questions about death lately. I didn't really expect this until about 4 years of age. The other day she said, "I don't ever want to die." Dh told her that he thinks she's going to live for a long time and that when she is really old dying won't be scary anymore. We're not really sure what the "right" answer is. Tonight she asked me if dh's grandpa (who died a year ago) was getting better. We told her no, that he had passed away, but that he wasn't hurting anymore. We've already discussed with her what dying/passing away is. That we're not going to see them anymore (I know this varies with belief, but at the moment we're just telling her what we believe), but that we can look at pictures of him and talk about him when we miss him. She remembers visiting him in the hospital. Tonight she said,"we visited him in a room at the hospital, and he said, 'hi maev!'" It's just crazy to me that she's trying to comprehend all this already.

She also said to me today, "Mama, you always take care of Jaim and never take care of me."














I tried to explain to her that Jaim needs me to help him with a lot of things because he is so young, so sometimes it might seem that I'm always taking care of him. BUt that everytime I play with her, help her get dressed, do her hair, make her a meal I am taking care of her. It broke my heart to hear her say that!


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## Maela

oh and Hi Snozz!! I see you a lot on FB. Glad to see you here again.


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## accountclosed3

so, we got our visa and the business closes on monday. i think the current owners no longer want to sell to us, but they have to. things are going well, though, and we are dong our part.

and, we have internet now, so that is sweet.









(much love to everyone in their daily travails and joys)


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## Angelorum

Congrats on the visa and soon to be yours business, zoe!

Anybody have success with the No-Cry Sleep Solution? We've been at it for a few days trying to lessen the amount of night waking. So far it seems to be helping at bedtime, but Westley is still really restless early in the morning. Today, he was up at 6 and then exhausted again by 8. The sun's not coming up that early yet, so I know it's not the light bothering him. I am trying to be patient.

In other news, I wanted to run to the library tonight as I had some books due, and my car wouldn't start.







This is not good, as we recently lost dh's car and had been crossing our fingers mine would last until we could scrape together some money for a new one. Having one car was not difficult for us, having no car definitely will present some challenges. I ended up walking to the library and slipped and fell twice in the slush. By the time I got there, my butt was sore and soaking wet! Ahh good times...


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## Maela

Very small disappointment, but we had a "playdate" with a friend tomorrow and she had to postpone. maev and I were so excited. it's really not a big deal. I just hate to see her get excited about something and then be disappointed. It's probably harder for me than it is for her.














I've got to get used to stuff like this because she's of course going to have at least a few disappointments in her life. Part of being a parent...

Had a great day today! You know, one of those days when you feel like an amazing mom.


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## accountclosed3

doing well here. getting all of the ducks in a row. the money is transfered over and so we are taking care of those loose ends. it's fun and busy and exciting. we can't wait to start making money!


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## accountclosed3

aww, turns out i do have influence.

my sister just told me that she and her husband are trying to have a baby over the next year. they just started trying. she's lost 20lbs and she feels good about the process.

today, we talked about various lifestyle choices. she wants to cosleep with a cosleeper. she said she watched how easy it was for us, and how that compared to her friends.

she also said she wants to breast feed at least two years. she said she liked how i did it and how easy it was for carrying food around and stuff, as compared to her friends, and how happy it made both hawk and i.

she then said that she wants to do EC because, compared to her friends, it just makes so much sense and she already deals with enough poop with two dogs and two cats! lol she loved ECing hawk, and so she wants to do that and so does her DH.

but here is the cool thing. she is going to have a midwife attended birth at a birth center. before i had hawk, she always talked abotu going to a hospital, but as i started to talk about the issues of birthing in hospitals--such as their excessive c-section rates and how it affects women and children, as well as how it means every birth after "must" be one, she began to think.

she knew she didn't want a homebirth--her house is too crazy with the animals and people who room with them. but she started to consider midwifery, and then learned about waterbirth and wanted to do that.

so she found a freestanding birth center that will at least let her labor in the water! and then, she tells me that she wants to do hypnobirthing and craniosacral therapy because she knows that i did so well with it.

honestly, it's pretty cool. we talked for a whole two hours (online) about it! that's the longest we have talked about anything in a long time because we are so different (liberal buddhist AP UCer vs conservative catholic mainstreamer).

so cool.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cking* 
But, the rest of our family, I'm not so sure about. J has been having some issues with getting to sleep lately, and DH has been having some anger issues - with her and with me.

DH was a mess after Reece was born, I think I told you about this. It can be really stressful for them, being on their own when they aren't used ot it. But much of it, as I said, is the realization of how many reprieves they had the first time around.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maela* 
Maev's been asking some questions about death lately....She also said to me today, "Mama, you always take care of Jaim and never take care of me."














I tried to explain to her that Jaim needs me to help him with a lot of things because he is so young, so sometimes it might seem that I'm always taking care of him. BUt that everytime I play with her, help her get dressed, do her hair, make her a meal I am taking care of her. It broke my heart to hear her say that!

Wow on the death issue. Just Wow, I think you're handling it great. I've worried about this coming up because Fenton both loves to see live fish and loves to eat fish. He's definately a child who knows where his food comes from, and I wonder how that's going to play out when he really thinks about it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 
Anybody have success with the No-Cry Sleep Solution?

I waas never really disciplined with NCCSS - some of the tips were helpful, but I never did it as a program. I agree with her whole-heartedly about the difficulty of breaking the nursing-sleep connection. I haven't banished Reece from falling asleep at the breast, but I have been pretty vigilant about having other ways to get him to sleep. With F, I would always put him on the breast if I was trying to get him to sleep. With R, if we just nursed and it didn't work, we do something else.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maela* 
Very small disappointment, but we had a "playdate" with a friend tomorrow and she had to postpone. maev and I were so excited. it's really not a big deal. I just hate to see her get excited about something and then be disappointed. It's probably harder for me than it is for her.














I've got to get used to stuff like this because she's of course going to have at least a few disappointments in her life. Part of being a parent...

Had a great day today! You know, one of those days when you feel like an amazing mom.









You _are_ a great mom!

I have so much to tell all of you, but it's too long. I'll share more soon.

zoe, good luck on everything - it sounds like it's all falling into place!


----------



## accountclosed3

i'm also glad to read that other DH's came unglued with babies around. ryan's happened with the first and he only realized how easy i make it look by watching me do the whole day. i told him to observe a whole day with just hawk and I--and to really observe--so that when we go to work (splitting half days working the desk until that's sorted out), he would see how i do things.

he asked to do that. meaning, ryan asked how i'm so 'cool' about things and he kept getting frustrated if i was working on the computer and he hand to handle something.

so, i was like ok, no problem. and he sees how i just go through the day and all that i do. he noted that i managed to potty and nurse hawk on demand as needed, make meals and clean up after meals (putting everything away), do my daily chore, do that daily laundry, and still manage to do my emails, my work for the business, make the phone calls that i needed to, get some writing done, spend time playing with hawk, spend time with him, and then go to bed at a reasonable hour and then potty and nurse hawk through the night (something he hasn't done since 9/2008).

so, he really saw what i do all day. and he saw that i do a lot more than he notices. and he realized that when he complained about "having to do everything" in the past, he was really fussing about the tiniest fraction of help that i was asking from him. he realized that he really only pottied hawk two or three times during week nights (and that was max), and of course never had to feed him, and didn't worry about making meals for him and cleaning up, and never really did household chores that i did, and so on and so on.

it was kind of nice, actually. because now he saw the schedule and this is my day coming up on tuesday:

6:30 am-6:45 am: rise and do 5 minutes of yoga and 10 of meditation.
6:45-7:00 am, shower and get dressed.
7:00-7:15 am make breakfast for the boys, grab mine to go and head to work;
7:25 am-8:30 am run a yoga class and prep the studio area for the day (put out signs, turn on lights, etc.)
8:40 am return home and ryan heads to work, clean kitchen and dress hawk for the day
9:00-9:15 am do daily chore (clean bathroom, sweep and dust or what have you);
9:15 am leave for our daily activity (eg, tuesday is park day; wednesday is mini minstrels, thursday is park, friday is story, etc).
11:00 am return home and transition to lunch
11:15 am hawk has lunch and then nurses down for his nap; i prep dinner for ryan.
1:00 ryan returns home; hawk is typically still napping; i head to work
1:10 i begin the afternoon desk shift at the business while ryan is home with hawk for the afternoon.
5:00 pm finish 'office' work and bring in signs, etc
5:30 pm teach yoga class
6:15 pm, finish yoga class leave around 6:30 pm
6:45 pm: return home, join dinner in progress (hawk and ryan eat at 6:30 precisely).
7:15 pm dinner is finished, clean dishes and kitchen
7:30 pm hawk's bath time (we do this together)
8:30 pm hawk is asleep (usually nursed down from 8 or 8:15), fold laundry, clean up toys and ptu them away, organize financials for home and business
9:00 pm "business time" (lol--flight of the conchords refernce)
9:30 or 10:30 pm bed time

so, my schedule is pretty intense, but i want to run at least 10 classes a week for myself to begin to build the studio. in april, i want to have at least two other teachers running classes there--hopefully lunch time and am. I also want to have volunteers working the desk so that ryan and i can have some time for managerial work that won't be interrupted by the desk work.

but, when he was complaining about "not having writing time" and so on, i was like--here is my schedule mon-fri right now, and there is very little time for me to practice yoga or what have you, to do things that are just for me. i'm doing these things for our family--cleaning house, cooking up foods, taking hawk to where he needs to be, and runnin the business so we can make a profit and do very well for ourselves.

and he saw this and decide that he would nto complain, that he would learn how to be more easy going with hawk, and not get frustrated if his reading is interrupted for pottying for example.

so, it's been going well. we are on day one. LOL


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
Wow on the death issue. Just Wow, I think you're handling it great. I've worried about this coming up because Fenton both loves to see live fish and loves to eat fish. He's definately a child who knows where his food comes from, and I wonder how that's going to play out when he really thinks about it.

You _are_ a great mom!

Thank you!







You are a fantastic mother too!

*ZB*, that's great about your sister!









And, I really admire your "take charge" attitude and your confidence. You always seem like you know what your doing and what you want out of life and you don't just sit around wishing things would happen. Instead you take the necessary actions without being wishy-washy. I'm trying to be more like that. Stop complaining, and take action, yk? anyway, I just wanted to tell you that.







Hope this came out the right way.


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## snozzberry

*Christina* and *Shanna*, thank you for sharing the experience of your DHs adjusting to a new baby the second time around. *Maela*, thank you too for sharing the perspective on how Maev has reacted. DH and I are discussing right now whether to have a 2nd, and it's helpful to have realistic expectations.

*Angelorum*, I'm sorry about your car.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 
Anybody have success with the No-Cry Sleep Solution? We've been at it for a few days trying to lessen the amount of night waking. So far it seems to be helping at bedtime, but Westley is still really restless early in the morning. Today, he was up at 6 and then exhausted again by 8. The sun's not coming up that early yet, so I know it's not the light bothering him. I am trying to be patient.

So this is our biggest parenting challenge, and it makes me feel







to talk about it. Abby is now 2 years old, she's still cosleeping (which all 3 of us still love), and she's still nursing through the night, usually 3-4 times. Add to that I never perfected nursing while lying, and...that adds up to mama not sleeping very well at all.

I love the idea of the gentle night weaning proposed in NCSS, but the problem is I'm so tired that I can't force myself to stay up & watch when it turns to just nursing for comfort so I can pop her off.

I tried something new last night, which was PAINFUL, but maybe if I stick with it, it will pay off. When she woke up, I would shush her and say "It's time for bed." over and over. Baby not happy, not at all. But eventually I convinced her to lay back down, and I could shush & pat her bottom to get her back to sleep. Or a couple times, I had to recite Bear Snores On once or twice to get her back down. So I only ended up nursing her once last night, but she woke up probably 7-8 times in all.

I really have no idea what I'm doing, but I hope this works.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
I waas never really disciplined with NCCSS - some of the tips were helpful, but I never did it as a program. I agree with her whole-heartedly about the difficulty of breaking the nursing-sleep connection. I haven't banished Reece from falling asleep at the breast, but I have been pretty vigilant about having other ways to get him to sleep. With F, I would always put him on the breast if I was trying to get him to sleep. With R, if we just nursed and it didn't work, we do something else.

If we do have a 2nd, I think I will do this because nursing has become a sleeping crutch for Abby, which I didn't mind for the first year but now it's just not working.


----------



## cking

So Dh is going back to work tomorrow. And what a week it is going to be - we have DS's 2-week checkup first thing tomorrow morning (luckily my friend and her DD are coming over to watch DD, so I don't have to attempt leaving the house with both kids so soon.) AND DH is going away for 2 days on Wed/Thu. Yikes! GMIL is coming over then, but I'm worried about that b/c I'm going to feel like I have to host her, and we have nowhere for her to sleep. (An 86 yo woman sleeping in our recliner? Can we ever live that down?) Needless to say, I'm nervous. But at least I should have help each day, so that's good.

DD is doing better wrt nursing. I needed to be more patient&#8230;but there are still times, like this morning, when she just.didn't.know.when.to.STOP. I can't wait for spring b/c I really think that she will find the playground to be much more exciting than my boobs.

BBL with more responses!


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## farmama

Cking,

My $.02: Get dh to go to Target, to the camping section. Get an inflatable queen sized bed. it costs less than $100 and if gmil can't sleep on it, maybe you can? be sure to put a blanket _under_ the mattress and on top of the floor to keep it warmer.


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## Sihaya

I just wanted to pop in quickly and let you all know that I am miscarrying again. I am taking a big step back from MDC and other message boards, so Facebook is probably the best way to get in touch with me.


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sihaya* 
I just wanted to pop in quickly and let you all know that I am miscarrying again. I am taking a big step back from MDC and other message boards, so Facebook is probably the best way to get in touch with me.

Steph, I am so sorry!


----------



## witchygrrl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sihaya* 
I just wanted to pop in quickly and let you all know that I am miscarrying again. I am taking a big step back from MDC and other message boards, so Facebook is probably the best way to get in touch with me.

I'm so very sorry.


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## accountclosed3

i'm also very sorry. do i already have you on FB?


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## farmama

Steph,








s


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## cking

I'm so sorry Steph.


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## Sihaya

Thanks, everyone.







I subbed to this thread so I will still be lurking, I just won't see things instantly and probably won't respond much for a while.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
do i already have you on FB?

Yep.


----------



## accountclosed3

so, we are gearing up for settlement tomorrow. all of the money is ready, we are ready to take on the desk, and we've started the dialogue with the practitioners.

a hilarious thing happened at one of the meetings, wherein i was talking about the collective. one of the practitioners said "we are NOT a collective. that's a legal term, and we are NOT that."

and i said "I think you are confusing collective with cooperative. COoperative is a legal business designation--and we are not that. A collective is a business model, and while you may or may not have been that in the past, as of friday, this is our business, and therefore we will be moving forward with the collective as the business model."

it was assertive and clear, but i was not going to entertain the idea that my business is "merely a commercial subleasing business." i informed them that my business plan is not "merely a subleasing business" but rather, subleasing is *one* method by which we are utilizing the collective business model.

they are a bit freaked out about the change, but i think they are "on the bus" with us. LOL

it's drama over here though. DRAMA.


----------



## witchygrrl

Gotta love drama though, Zoe. It seems lke things are really coming together for you, regardless!


----------



## blizzard_babe

I've been ever-so-gently reminded that, hey, I used to post over here.

Hi ladies







.


----------



## PiePie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sihaya* 
I just wanted to pop in quickly and let you all know that I am miscarrying again. I am taking a big step back from MDC and other message boards, so Facebook is probably the best way to get in touch with me.

I think it would be healthy for me to do the same. I am having a hard time with the TTC'ing thing; I have ricocheted between believing that it is best for me to come here with fellow obsessers (because DH is not into my emotional roller coaster on the subject) and thinking that it is too hard to be here where everyone seems to get pregnant at the drop of a hat (sorry, no offense!!) and/or have a family of 4. So I don't know where I am going with this, just sharing that it is difficult for me too, I guess.


----------



## witchygrrl

Hi BB







You're welcome for the reminder!

PiePie,


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## snozzberry

Steph and PiePie,


----------



## accountclosed3

yes, it is going well. i'm confronted with something funny every day though. today, for example, no one knows who owns the towels. well, everyone says that they own the towels, but we do the cleaning. anyway, no one knows anything.

i have a list as long as my arm for the previous owners; they've stopped answering my emails. LOL so, i guess we'll just make it work. it makes me laugh so hard though. better laugh than cry.

this place is so ridiculously mismanaged. so, the fact that it is still alive tells me that even a little management will go a long, long way. thank goodness. seriously, it's surprising that it's been as successful as it has been.

-----

now, i'm not obcessing about TTCing or trying to get pregnant or anything here. nope. just happy with one and not looking to move forward with any more (so fr at least). so, if you'd like to obsess then i am happy to listen.


----------



## PiePie

I did a round of acuppuncture and initial consult with a Dr of TCM. He has me on Fertile Garden. he wants me to come in once a week but I can't afford it, obviously. I chose to go with a practioner recommended by my MW rather than one covered by my insurance because I hope this won't be a regular thing and I wanted someone who was knowledgeable about supporting fertility. I have no idea if it will give me the outcome I want but I did find it very relaxing -- much more relaxing than a massage. And I love massages. I feel a bit like a walking medicine cabinet what with my fertile garden tablets, my vitex tincture, my magnesium, my calcium, my prenatals, oh my! He was a flamingly gay man who made me feel comfortable instantly, which is pretty impressive as I have an absolute phobia of needles (like can pass out if I see them). My BP was weirdly uncharacterisitcally high at the appt but I suspect it was related to running very late and being stressed about that. My belly was super itchy afterward which he claimed meant the Chi was moving. I also had relaxed shoulders for the first time in a while. Of course that didn't last through toddler wrangling, but it was an effect, right?


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blizzard_babe* 
I've been ever-so-gently reminded that, hey, I used to post over here.

Hi ladies







.

Welcome back...I've seen you posting around other parts and I didn't want to be pushy...but I'm glad someone else was!

Is there _anything_ you'd like to tell us?!


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
I think it would be healthy for me to do the same. I am having a hard time with the TTC'ing thing; I have ricocheted between believing that it is best for me to come here with fellow obsessers (because DH is not into my emotional roller coaster on the subject) and thinking that it is too hard to be here where everyone seems to get pregnant at the drop of a hat (sorry, no offense!!) and/or have a family of 4. So I don't know where I am going with this, just sharing that it is difficult for me too, I guess.

*PiePie*








I'm sorry you're struggling. It's so hard for anyone to really understand unless they've been there too. Your DH (and my DP) sit in that weird place where they're part of it, but they don't really get it.

Don't discount the wisdom here sweetie. Us NMY grads have many years of combined TTC'ing, a handful of us with long, drawn out processes, some of us with multiple losses. The wisdom I bring to the table is that TTC makes you crazy. If/when I have difficulty getting knocked up again, I'm going to focus much more on mental health, than on physical fertility. Right now (pre TTC) I'm trying to get my body right (I'm currently ovulating on day 24 of a 29 day cycle arghhhhhhhh) and once I'm ready to start, I really hope that I can focus less on tweaking that stuff and much more on self care - I'm sure that mental health has lots to do with it.

I also meant to tell you that it takes a couple of cycles for vitex to properly kick in so don't give up on it yet. I hear what you're saying about the medicine dispensary though. It's nutso.

Re: acupuncture. Sounds good. Can you negotiate with the TCM pract.? Perhaps fortnightly? I know you like this guy, but it is worth investigating those on your insurance? Fertility work is often the bread and butter income earner for a lot of TCM practitioners - You may have someone wonderful available to you.

The other thing I was going to say, which may or may not be helpful, is that for so many TTC'ers, it's that point of feeling despondent that seems to bring the BFP's. For me, that was certainly the case as it seems to be true for lots of the TTC bloggers. (A world I don't recommend you enter - it's not good for mental health, at all!) I'd had many months of panic and the month I got my BFP was the month where I was so over it that I was seriously ready to let it all go. I do wonder if that mind/body disconnect plays a role.

Take care of yourself. xo


----------



## blizzard_babe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
Is there _anything_ you'd like to tell us?!









Maaaaaaaaaaaybe...


----------



## accountclosed3

piepie: a friend of mine is currently in acupuncture school in NYC. would connecting you help?


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## witchygrrl

I've been seeing a lot of acupuncturists have a sliding scale, at least locally. My cousin's wife told me that she's doing a trade-off with one by her (she's a LMT) for her peri-menopause issues. She felt like total garbage after the first visit, but she was told she had a lot of build up to work through. But she's confident that she'll feel much better after a few treatments.

Best of luck, PiePie. I do agree with MMM. We do have quite of bit of collective wisdom here.


----------



## TwilightJoy

I went to two acupuncture treatments and didn't notice any benefits. I wasn't treating a condition, just looking for relaxing muscle tension, energy, and overall health. Maybe it's something you have to do for awhile to really work, but I couldn't afford to do it any more than that.


----------



## Angelorum

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snozzberry* 

*Angelorum*, I'm sorry about your car.









So this is our biggest parenting challenge, and it makes me feel







to talk about it. Abby is now 2 years old, she's still cosleeping (which all 3 of us still love), and she's still nursing through the night, usually 3-4 times. Add to that I never perfected nursing while lying, and...that adds up to mama not sleeping very well at all.

I love the idea of the gentle night weaning proposed in NCSS, but the problem is I'm so tired that I can't force myself to stay up & watch when it turns to just nursing for comfort so I can pop her off.

I tried something new last night, which was PAINFUL, but maybe if I stick with it, it will pay off. When she woke up, I would shush her and say "It's time for bed." over and over. Baby not happy, not at all. But eventually I convinced her to lay back down, and I could shush & pat her bottom to get her back to sleep. Or a couple times, I had to recite Bear Snores On once or twice to get her back down. So I only ended up nursing her once last night, but she woke up probably 7-8 times in all.

I really have no idea what I'm doing, but I hope this works.

If we do have a 2nd, I think I will do this because nursing has become a sleeping crutch for Abby, which I didn't mind for the first year but now it's just not working.


I forgot to come back with the update on my car! It got fixed on Monday (the day we took it into the shop) and was less than $200! I couldn't believe it! I am so grateful it was so minor, I was researching bus routes and bike seats for babies, worried that we would have to do without a car for a couple months.

On Sleep: Westley is up 6 or 7 times a night. I love cosleeping with him, and can nurse laying down in a variety of positions (I was so happy when I figured out how to nurse sleeping flat on my back!) So, really, the situation is not that dire, I hardly wake up when he needs to nurse. I'm just not very well rested with all the interruptions. I had pretty much accepted this. When we started having trouble with naps, I checked out NCSS and all the stories of magically getting babies to sleep all night long got me all excited that maybe Westley could do it too. Maybe he could, if I could actually be disciplined about some of the advice in the book. I'm just not a schedule type of person, and so much of the advice revolves around being consistent with bed times and nap times and routines and such. Take for example yesterday. I was determined to make a sleep log and so I wanted to be on "good behavior" to get a good log (such a funny compulsion, it's not like I'm showing it to anyone). Morning nap was great, almost two hours. We went to playgroup in the early afternoon. He started rubbing his eyes at the end so I took him home and put him down for his afternoon nap maybe a little later than was optimal. He slept for an hour, but I was getting sleepy, so when he woke up at 4:30, I laid down on the couch and nursed him and we both fell soundly asleep, until nearly 7:00! Oops. I've been meaning to get him to bed between 7 and 8, but that obviously was not going to happen, he had just slept for 4 hours! And then of course, I hadn't even thought about dinner for me and dh. We ate really late, because dh had a class until 9. About halfway through making dinner Westley starts getting really sleepy, but I can't leave the stove, so I pop him in the mei tai hoping that will knock him out. That didn't work, he ended up not falling asleep until 10:45, and still woke up at 6:45. I didn't even manage to complete the sleep log because I was too asleep to remember to write down what times he woke up, much less remember to unlatch him after he finished nursing in the night. A few months ago, this lack of schedule didn't seem to bother him much, but now I really feel like he could benefit from a little more structure, and I just can't get my act together.







I'll keep plugging away trying to maintain some semblance of a schedule and maybe someday it'll help.

Snozz-good luck with your new night time routine, I would be a total zombie if I couldn't nurse laying down!


----------



## Maela

*Shanna*, you mentioned a couple of months ago that you got some scrapbooking software, right? Can I ask what brand/type you got? Are you liking it? I think I'd like to give it a try. I might ask for it for my birthday.


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## cking

I just want to take a minute to boast. Today i got out of the house with both children, on my own, and we went to the park & playground. (I did have help there, my friend watched her daughter & J while ds nursed. not sure how I could ever do this alone...) I heart spring!


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## accountclosed3

if the playground is fenced, i think i would be ok at it. but here, the playground is not closed entirely. the gateways are wide open and open onto busy roads. ihave to be a mama hawk or the little guy tears off! so, yeah, i couldn't imagine managing two!


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cking* 
I just want to take a minute to boast. Today i got out of the house with both children, on my own, and we went to the park & playground. (I did have help there, my friend watched her daughter & J while ds nursed. not sure how I could ever do this alone...) I heart spring!









It's definitely hard with a newborn and toddler at the park. The hardest part for us was helping Maev with the swings. It's easier for me now that Jaim can sit in those baby swings with a blanket around him. And I've recently discovered that he loves the stroller - more than the sling currently. So we've been going for lots of walks to the park lately.

Hard, hard day today. I was going crazy with the two kids (including a very fussy baby) at home. Was not a model parent.







I actually looked forward to going to my mw's for an exam/pap smear. How sad is that? Anyway, hopefully tomorrow is better. We recently switched health insurances for the kids, and tomorrow we're meeting their new doctor and trying to get Jaim's heart stuff all sorted out. Hopefully, his new cardiologist will be as good as the old one.


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## witchygrrl

A bit of good news. Rhea seems to be gaining weight finally. We usually put out a smorgasboard for her, so she can pick through and eat whatever she wants. When we took her to the doc, she was at a flat 20 lbs. The nurse was very surprised because she doesn't look very skinny, just a solid looking slim. But we've been measuring her on the Wii Fit, and she has increased steadily to about 21 and a half pounds!

And it's finally warm enough to go outside and play! Hooray!!!


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchygrrl* 
A bit of good news. Rhea seems to be gaining weight finally. We usually put out a smorgasboard for her, so she can pick through and eat whatever she wants. When we took her to the doc, she was at a flat 20 lbs. The nurse was very surprised because she doesn't look very skinny, just a solid looking slim. But we've been measuring her on the Wii Fit, and she has increased steadily to about 21 and a half pounds!

And it's finally warm enough to go outside and play! Hooray!!!

That's great!! And great about the weather too! That' means my SIL (the one that lives right near you) must be having a good day! She really misses ca weather. She's due in April with a girl;! Maev will finally have a girl cousin.


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## witchygrrl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maela* 
That's great!! And great about the weather too! That' means my SIL (the one that lives right near you) must be having a good day! She really misses ca weather. She's due in April with a girl;! Maev will finally have a girl cousin.

Oh yay, that'll be fun for Maev







And yes, the weather's been gorgeous so I hope they're taking advantage!!!


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## Maela

We just switched over to kaiser and saw the kids' new pediatrician for the first time today. He said that Jaim was too skinny (3rd percentile for weight, but 65th percentile for length). I have been a little worried because he was 7lbs 14oz at birth and didn't seem skinny until about 3mo, but his old dr and his cardiologist had never said anything about it. So today his new dr was surprised that they hadn't been concerned. He wants me to start cereal now. I said that I hadn't started him on any food yet because I thought bm was the fattiest thing I could give him (and because he's only 5mo and a few days). He didn't really deny that, he said that usually bf babies are fine until 6mo, but that in this situation...














He is really skinny, but I'm correct in thinking that breastmilk is the thing that will give him the most fat right? I've been trying to nurse him more often,but he just will not nurse when there is any noise or people in the room. Which means he doesn't nurse a whole lot because Maev is always around. He's very easily distracted (common for this age, I know) and does not nurse for comfort.
The dr has also ordered a blood test to rule out hyperthyroidism, but he doesn't think that's what it is, because he's so happy, social and hitting all his milestones on time. Ugh...







now I'm feeling so stressed.


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## accountclosed3

take a breath and get another opinion if you are really concerned. what this doctor's tolerances are may be (and obviously are) different than other doctors.

hawk has always been skinny. usually 5% for weight and 90% for height. always on that trajectory without moving off of it. in fact, once the doc measured him at 25/75, and said "i'm not going to record this, it's obvious he's about to shoot up. measure him for me next week and send me the numbers." i did, and he was 5/90 again.

now, a doctor friend of a friend said that my son was too skinny. but he is incredibly healthy and hitting every milestone so my doctor said it wasn't a worry, it's apparently just his body type.

if you really think that it is at issue, then absolutely do whatever you think is right to get more weight on him. but if you think this doctor might be going a bit far, then get a second opinion.

and, breast milk is the fattiest, but if you want a secondary, consider avocados or egg yolk as the first food. (egg yolk hard boiled and mashed with breast milk).


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## witchygrrl

Maela, I agree with Zoe. Cereal is empty calories, and I think that would only constipate Jaim, not really fatten him up. I've been reading a lot on fattening babies up, believe me, and what gets me is this whole idea about superfat babies being the norm. I don't want to artificially plump up Rhea just so she's fat. I want to make sure she's getting what she needs, YK? But Rhea has also always been on the thinner side of things, plumping up just before a growth spurt, until these last six months, when she's been growing tall and maintaining a steady weight.

Also, a friend of mine was diagnosed with a heart condition in high school, and even though she ate like a horse (and still does), she couldn't keep weight on. So I think that as long as he keeps a steady curve, that's who Jaim is-lanky and lean (all the while monitoring that heart condition). Somebody has to be 3rd percentile, right? Big







to you


----------



## Maela

Thanks guys! I'm feeling a little better about things now. I'm going to wait and see if the blood test discovers any problem. If there is a problem, I doubt feeding him solid food before he's ready is going to help. If there isn't a problem, we'll see... I'm going to try to nurse him more during the night, since I can get him to nurse more easily then because there are no distractions for him and he's half asleep. And I was planning on giving him avocado as his first food anyway around six months - just like I did with Maev. I just don't think that giving it to him before 6mo will help anyway since bm would make him gain weight the fastest. Is there really such a thing as a 6mo that prefers food over breastmilk? I guess I'll find out.


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## Rico'sAlice

Maela-
Do you pump and will Jaim take a bottle? If you are able to pump you can skim the fat off the top of one bottle and add it to another bottle to make super-fatty milk. Or just feed him the extra fat on a spoon.
Also, as much as you want him to nurse more often, also focus a lot on nursing longer on each side to get more of the fattier hindmilk. This will probably be easier at night too.

Good luck!


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rico'sAlice* 
Maela-
Do you pump and will Jaim take a bottle? If you are able to pump you can skim the fat off the top of one bottle and add it to another bottle to make super-fatty milk. Or just feed him the extra fat on a spoon.
Also, as much as you want him to nurse more often, also focus a lot on nursing longer on each side to get more of the fattier hindmilk. This will probably be easier at night too.

Good luck!

Thanks! He won't take a bottle (we've tried many times), but I do have a pump and i could feed him the milk with a spoon or one of his oral syringes that I use to give him his medicine. That's a great idea.
He will only nurse on one side per feeding, but I can give him that same side two times in a row at night. I was just worried about my supply.


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## PiePie

i would not go to solids (unless he is reaching for them) but i would consult a lactation consultant to see about increasing the fat content in your millk. when he does start solids, i would go for fatty things like avocado, banana, yogurt, and add olive oil and butter to everything. i have multiple friends (more than 10) with bf'd babies at that weight point or lower who turned out fine (or are turning out fine, but with regard to the first one i was thinking of, she is 14 and in boarding school so her bfing days are over lol). do you have your and dh's growth charts? one friend whose son has been off the weight chart since 6 mos. (is dd's age) used her chart and her dh's to show that her son was progressing normally according to genetics. her dh is short (under 5 5) and she is skinny (under 100) so they were not likely to make a big kid.


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## accountclosed3

things are going well here.

1. we finally got our new bed;

2. i was able to connect with a local woman who knows some great homeopathic/anthroposophical doctors that we can check out as our family doctor;

3. i connected with the homebirthing and ECing group;

4. we went to a potluck for the local community garden and will start working there this week (they even do a winter garden, so i'm psyched--and they have more food than the people who work the garden can use, so i suggested that we do a preserving workshop so that we can preserve whatever is there--so i'm looking into that);

5. things at the business are going well--i have the procedure manual (named Manuel) basically done, the On-Site client list done, as well as the Third-Party Vendors list done, most of the bills and such transitioned over (luckily, we won't pay anything until april at this point!), and we are starting on the marketing in earnest;

6. we get our hair cuts today--thank goodness as we hvae needed it since January;

7. we discovered that we already have a lot of friends--our calendars are filling right up;

8. and i found more fun activities for hawk--yoga will be out (that class is tedious and expensive), but i have a gardening day, a music group, and a music/dance group, as well as story time, and that leaves one day to stay home for people coming in to work or deliveries or to go to the playground during the week.

it's coming along nicely here.


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## farmama

hey all,

just checking in. hello?









maela, any news about jaim?


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## Maela

He's gained two ounces, and moved up to the 5th percentile. His new cardiologist didn't seem as concerned as his new pediatrician. No solids here yet, just trying what *RA* suggested about the breastmilk fat.

Right now he's on my lap and giggling every now and then. It's because he's holding his own foot and tickling it on accident! So cute! he is so ticklish!!









I'm sick.


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## farmama

saw your post on fb.

Hope you all feel better soon!


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## ~Shanna~

So sorry I've been MIA - It's been crazy around here. Crazy. More below.

Is anyone else attracting more attention while babywearing these days?

Maela, the digi-scrapping program I use is Photoshop Elements. It's probably more powerful than I need - I'm sure I could be curing cancer if I knew everything about it, but so far I've only used it a little bit.

Christina, how are things going? How is DH?

So many changes here,I don't know where to begin. Had 2nd surgery last week, looks like it did the job. I'm in an obnoxious splint for 4 weeks that basically renders me a useless parent. It's been so frustrating that we've called a lawyer to explore our options.

Reece has been rolling over for about a month and has teeth #3 and 4 coming in. He's fussy, more than he is tempermentally, and of course I can't help but remember how long we thought Fenton's gut issues were teething symptoms. But he's such a cherub, even in discomfort he'll give you his gorgeous smile if you directly engage him. Sleeps well in his crib unless I'm too lazy or handicapped not to bring him in bed with me.

Fen is in his own room, but brings DH into bed with him every night around 12 - 2 pm. I'm a little frustrated on that just because I'm so burned out on night parenting with him. It's affected what I'm willing to do with Reece. He's been treated for his gut issues for 13 months now, and we would have started introducing "illegal foods", but he had a severe sinus infection over the winter that required 2 rounds of antibiotics after trying everything naturopathic we could think of, except forcibly netti-ing him. Next time I think I'll try taking him swimming and hoping he gets some water up his nose. Anyway, we were devastated to do it, as it was the last thing he needed. It has probably set us back, but we were out of options.

The big news with Fenton is that he's starting pre-school in the fall, an Emilio Reggio program down the road. He's so excited, though disappointed that he doesn't get to ride a "big yellow bus". And that he can't go now







He loves it and the staff there, and while I feel so sad that he's starting to want challenges that I'm not a part of, I'm so proud of how independent and vivacious he is.

DH has all grad school responses back and&#8230;..we're staying in Michigan, where he'll commute once a week to Chicago for his PhD program. There's no stipend, but rather than be a disadvantage, it gives him the freedom to do it part-time. However, he can't possibly work full-time while doing it. So how are we going to eat? We are each going to work part-time. It's taken so many compromises, but it really looks like we've hit on an arrangement where everyone gets almost everything that they want. He has promising leads on some adjunct teaching, and I'm going full-steam ahead with childbirth educator training. I'm also organizing more of the mothering workshops that I lead at the birth center (though these won't be free), learning how to do placenta encapsulation, and the birth center is going to let me work as a birth attendant, basically as a gopher for the midwives and as a post-partum doula. But the biggest part of my half of our income is that I'm setting up a virtual assistant service at home, launching mid-may (after my physical therapy ends) and hoping it ramps up in time to meet salary requirements. Because DH is leaving his job at the church in August. This is the riskiest thing we've ever done, and&#8230;.I think it's the happiest, professionally. We're both working in things that we're excited about, and we're both SO excited to start sharing parenting responsibilities more equally. We already buy our own health insurance, so it's been so liberating and exciting to piece a living together out of all the little parts of our soul. I'm surprised to find that I'm excited to not be the "expert" on the kids, that we'll be doing this more equitably. He'll have to learn how to fold a pre-fold, and I'll have to learn how to handle him having a different opinion on what kind of diapers we use. It'll be a new frontier.

So, I've been MIA filing LLC paperwork, learning a new bookkeeping program and designing 2 websites. One-handed







. I miss you guys







.


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## Sihaya

Shanna, your post made my heart smile







So happy that things are being coaxed into place (I know they certainly didn't "fall" there







) and I'm just beaming for you guys







Also excited to see you Tuesday.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sihaya* 
Shanna, your post made my heart smile







So happy that things are being coaxed into place (I know they certainly didn't "fall" there







) and I'm just beaming for you guys







Also excited to see you Tuesday.

Coaxed







. Or blungeoned. By my stubbornness







.
Thanks







. I'm a little frantic, but in a good way. How are you?? Did Susun Weed help?


----------



## Sihaya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
Thanks







. I'm a little frantic, but in a good way. How are you?? Did Susun Weed help?

I'm actually frantic in a less-than-good way right now. But it's nothing two weeks and a couple blood tests won't straighten out







Other than that drama, I'm doing pretty well. Striking a semblance of a balance between grieving and healing.

Susun Weed was a huge help. I've been drinking nettles infusion and feeling a lot more balanced and less exhausted. I'm going to need to buy myself the childbearing year book because there is just so much good info in there that I really need to have on hand all the time. Also considering buying two books and donating one to our library. It's criminal that not one library in the system had one _and_ I couldn't even find one through MelCat.


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## Sihaya

*double post*


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## MujerMamaMismo

Yay for updates. It got very quiet in here for a while.

*Steph* - you've inspired me to buy that book too. I'm trying to get myself less exhausted and more balanced to support (possible) pregnancy and breastfeeding.

There's been loads of big stuff happening in our little world lately too. Sebby has us totally baffled with regard to sleep. He's been on a total elimination diet for almost 3 weeks. The first week was amazing. We were sleeping in blocks of 4 hours which is unheard of in this household - he even cut an eye tooth and a molar in that week...we then had a slip up in the form of the eating of play-doh (and only a tiny amount) which sent him over the edge and resulted in waking every 20 minutes and a 3 hours up in the middle of the night. Clearly he has a problem with wheat. Anyway - we're now back to waking hourly at most, all night long.

To be fair, things have changed quite a bit for the kid. I started my doula training last week, which took me out of the house for 9 hours x 3 days. Regardless, since then, we've had lots of lovely days with just him and I hanging out and it doesn't seem to be improving the sleep. I'm at my wits end. DP has next week off work so that we can night wean (Jay Gordon style) but I'm not feeling like it's do-able while we're still sorting out allergies and teeth and separation anxiety...

And I just need to sleep.

Meanwhile, doula training was intense and AMAZING. Why wasn't I warned about all the tears?! This is going to be a massive and wonderful year of learning, healing and self discovery. And I cannot wait to attend births. My first confirmed birth will be a dear friend's in early September and I am very excited!

Despite the sleep deprivation, I am feeling energised, in part due explicitly to the doula training and in part due to the partial autonomy that the training has afforded me. I've been mother of the year this weekend, because of it.

*Shanna*, I'm completely inspired by your goings-on. How very exciting. I'm assuming that you're pretty thrilled to be staying in Michigan? How do you learn about placenta encapsulation? I'm thinking about adding that to my repertoire too but haven't investigated beyond that.

How's everyone else? *Christina*? How's our newest Mama of two?


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
Meanwhile, doula training was intense and AMAZING. Why wasn't I warned about all the tears?! This is going to be a massive and wonderful year of learning, healing and self discovery. And I cannot wait to attend births. My first confirmed birth will be a dear friend's in early September and I am very excited!

Despite the sleep deprivation, I am feeling energised, in part due explicitly to the doula training and in part due to the partial autonomy that the training has afforded me. I've been mother of the year this weekend, because of it.

*Shanna*, I'm completely inspired by your goings-on. How very exciting. I'm assuming that you're pretty thrilled to be staying in Michigan? How do you learn about placenta encapsulation? I'm thinking about adding that to my repertoire too but haven't investigated beyond that.

I was hoping you'd update us on how this is going - you seem to be getting so filled by it! I'm in your camp too, on how much it helps my parenting to get away a little, and especially to be passionate about something that's just mine. DH and I have started a Saturday tradition where we take turns going out alone for 2-3 hours. It can sooth the most challenging week. Can you share more about your training? Is it with DONA?

Placenta encapsulation would be a great addition to your services, especially as a doula - youre already there, and have a relationship. Its really simple and not much work, only time-sensitive. I'm still needing clarification on cutting off the membrane, and after that I can share what I know. When I was pg with F, I had a heck of a time finding anyone who'd even heard of it, and with Reece I knew several ladies who do it. It seems to be more and more in demand, and SO helpful for a new family to outsource it.

Steph, I too tried to get Weed from the library and had to get it myself - I got mine from paperback swap, maybe check there? I'm shocked what I get there sometimes.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchygrrl* 
Maela, I agree with Zoe. Cereal is empty calories, and I think that would only constipate Jaim, not really fatten him up. I've been reading a lot on fattening babies up, believe me, and what gets me is this whole idea about superfat babies being the norm. I don't want to artificially plump up Rhea just so she's fat. I want to make sure she's getting what she needs, YK? But Rhea has also always been on the thinner side of things, plumping up just before a growth spurt, until these last six months, when she's been growing tall and maintaining a steady weight.

I get conflicted about this, because my own experiences with diet tell me that fat is good for you, but fat is not how you gain weight. The only way to gain is to increase calories, and sugars and starches have more calories than non. I totally agree with Witchy about not trying to gain just for its own sake, and that good fat is good. But if the goal IS to gain weight (and this is really the question), I think the carbs is the only thing that will "work". I'm losing my last 6 lbs baby weight just by replacing my breakfast oatmeal with 2 eggs fried in butter.

Amen to what Witchy said: Someone has to be 3rd %. My sister is going through this, and she drowns out all the background noise by constantly asking herself "Does it seem to ME that somethings wrong?"

Gave Fenton his birthday present early because we couldn't wait







, and all day I've been involved in highly-intricate plots involving robots, rockets, dragons and dogs.







He's THREE you guys! THREE!!!! How does that happen?
Here's what we got him:
This and this


----------



## Maela

Shanna, I can't believe he's three!! Happy Birthday Fenton!!!







Those look like great toys! And I'm happy you guys are getting things all figured out.









Thanks for the advice. I'm not sure what to do now. Giving him rice cereal right now just doesn't feel right, yk? Dh and I are sure he's looking a little bigger lately. I love giving him the breastmilk fat. It's so creamy and knowing that it's just breastmilk that I'm feeding to him with a spoon feels right. He's so cute when I'm feeding him. Trying to really pay attention to his cues when he's all done.

I'm with you, Shanna and MMM on getting some time to yourself to do something that you love. It helps me so much! Dh has been really good lately about making sure he offers a lot to give me alone time. I think he's noticing how much it helps me. And I'm better about asking for it. Today I got to play in the dirt! Getting our garden area ready for planting. nothing special this year - just tomatoes and basil I think. I'm still a beginner and with a baby...







Next year's garden though is going to be bigger and better!


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

*Shanna:* Not DONA - no DONA in Australia. In fact, there's no regulatory body for doulas/birth attendants (we tend to use the two interchangeably - they are the same thing here) at all in Australia. Really, birth attendants have only been flying above the radar for 5 or 6 years here and ostensibly, anyone can pick up and practice, regardless of training or experience. The woman who I am training with, Rhea Dempsey, has been doing this work for 32 years - before there was even a homebirth movement and independent, qualified midwives. For many years she practiced as a lay-midwife. She's an extraordinary woman - I'm still intimidated to be in the same room as her. Anyway, my long-winded point is that she and a couple of others are working towards setting up some kind of Australian regulatory body - just as soon as she finishes her book. And in terms of approach - from what I can tell from reading online, the training is not dis-similar to Birthing from Within but with greater contact time - and it's all done as women's circle work.

As a side note, I forgot to mention before that homebirth as we know it was essentially outlawed here, last week. For the next 2 years, women with no prior or current 'risk' factors will still be able to birth at home with an independent midwife but unless something big changes, bye-bye homebirth in 2012. Of course, there's a lot of activism going on but none of us are feeling especially hopeful.


----------



## PiePie

*Shanna*, I actually think that both partners working part-time is PERFECT! And I might do it even if $ were no object. There are definite challenges -- in particular, if you take on a job that really requires more hours than you are being paid for, and/or if you are used to being a star at work and now you are barely holding on because you are comparing yourself (and being compared to) people who work more than 40 hours (that's my struggle). As you know, I went to the U of C for law school, and one of my BFs went to the Div Sch (left after her masters, though). I have a cousin there now, in Philosophy PhD, if he wants contacts. He should definitely take a course with Martha Nussbaum just for kicks and giggles. (I had her in law sch.) And he must get you a Div Sch coffee mug -- they have teh greatest slogan! Won't tell what it is. It will be a hard place to be a believer, though; it's just not their approach, at all...


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maela* 
It's so creamy and knowing that it's just breastmilk that I'm feeding to him with a spoon feels right.

Speaking of things that feel right, I'm really struggling with getting Reece to sleep. To be plain, he seemsto need to CIO to get to sleep. I can bounce, sing , pat and rub for hours, with him getting more and more tired and frustrated. If I leave him to fuss for about 5 minutes and then come back to pat, he'll go right to sleep. I don't know what to do with this information. My gut tells me that he has to expend a little burst before he sleeps - my gut doesn't feel concerned or tormented by his fussing/crying. But my head thinks I'm just hardened to it and I never would have let F go to sleep that way. Maybe dispassion evolves as it needs to? Maybe I'm a sociopath? It really does seem organic to his needs.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
As a side note, I forgot to mention before that homebirth as we know it was essentially outlawed here, last week. For the next 2 years, women with no prior or current 'risk' factors will still be able to birth at home with an independent midwife but unless something big changes, bye-bye homebirth in 2012. Of course, there's a lot of activism going on but none of us are feeling especially hopeful.









I know, I was watching this happen







. I'm just so shocked by the absurdity of it. Will parents be criminalized?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
*Shanna*, I actually think that both partners working part-time is PERFECT! And I might do it even if $ were no object. There are definite challenges -- in particular, if you take on a job that really requires more hours than you are being paid for, and/or if you are used to being a star at work and now you are barely holding on because you are comparing yourself (and being compared to) people who work more than 40 hours (that's my struggle). As you know, I went to the U of C for law school, and one of my BFs went to the Div Sch (left after her masters, though). I have a cousin there now, in Philosophy PhD, if he wants contacts. He should definitely take a course with Martha Nussbaum just for kicks and giggles. (I had her in law sch.) And he must get you a Div Sch coffee mug -- they have teh greatest slogan! Won't tell what it is. It will be a hard place to be a believer, though; it's just not their approach, at all...

I'm thinking its pretty perfect for us right now. I'm going to miss the parts of the day that I'll miss, but it's going to be so great for my boys to have so much time with their Dad. I think it'sgoing to really help our marriage after getting so beat up in this discernment. DH will be doing his dissertation at Chicago Theological, not U of C - oddly, we went with CTS because there was no stipend, affording more flexibility for commuting. But CTS is, ironically, a hard place to be a believer too - the joke in our denomination is that UCC stands for Unitarians Considering Christ. We're a very cerebral brand, and Brandon has often mused on how many people at his current seminary seem to think that loving Jesus is grounds for an MDiv. He's such a snob







. Thanks for all that you wrote regarding the challenges of being a part-time working mom. I haven't run into this yet, as people are still in the disapproving stage of what our plan is. But they were things I hadn't thought to prepare for.


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## PiePie

posted this earlier this morning, but apparently the post didn't take? i'm pregnant! due 11/28/10. tested this morning. we are happy but cautious, of course. feeling optimistic, though.


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## witchygrrl

Happy birthday Fenton! And good luck to the changes you and your Dh are taking, Shanna. The two of us working part time was good while it lasted, so I hope the same for you.

Yay PiePie! Congrats!


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## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
posted this earlier this morning, but apparently the post didn't take? i'm pregnant! due 11/28/10. tested this morning. we are happy but cautious, of course. feeling optimistic, though.









I'll be joyous while you're still cautious. Congrats PiePie. Here's to not much to report for the next 40 weeks (except an expanding belly, of course!







)

Happy Birthday *Fenton*. 3 - that really is extraordinary!

Interested to know what you are all thinking/feeling re the health care reform? I know you're excited PiePie (via FB) but I'm a bit surprised by just how excited everyone is. From my reading of it, this plan still lines the pockets of the very rich insurance companies and leaves faaaaaaar too many people without coverage.... maybe I'm a cynic or perhaps I'm just an idealistic socialist????!


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## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
My gut tells me that he has to expend a little burst before he sleeps - my gut doesn't feel concerned or tormented by his fussing/crying. But my head thinks I'm just hardened to it and I never would have let F go to sleep that way. Maybe dispassion evolves as it needs to? Maybe I'm a sociopath? It really does seem organic to his needs.

There's a big difference between a bit of a grizzle and unwinding and CIO *Shanna* - I'm sure you know that and can tell the difference in his cries. Go easy on yourself.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
I know, I was watching this happen







. I'm just so shocked by the absurdity of it. Will parents be criminalized?

That's an interesting question Shanna. I was at a consultation re the reforms on Friday and when one of our members (I'm on the committee of the Maternity Coalition) asked that very question, they were shocked - like they'd never thought of that possibility and it seemed absurd to them. When this member, who is a lawyer pushed the point, they were 'very concerned' by the prospect of the can of worms they were opening. Midwives, some who say they will go underground and continue to support homebirthing women will certainly be criminalised. And freebirth (UC) will grow, obviously. I think doulas will also be compromised and asked to be present in what would otherwise be freebirths putting them in potentially dodgy situations ethically, legally and medically.

As selfish as it sounds, I'm extremely pleased to know that my next birth will happen (WILL HAPPEN) before the 2 years is up - so I will get MY homebirth.


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## Sihaya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
posted this earlier this morning, but apparently the post didn't take? i'm pregnant! due 11/28/10. tested this morning. we are happy but cautious, of course. feeling optimistic, though.









I'm with MMM! Congratulations!!!


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## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
posted this earlier this morning, but apparently the post didn't take? i'm pregnant! due 11/28/10. tested this morning. we are happy but cautious, of course. feeling optimistic, though.

Pie Pie, congratulations!!!!!!!!!









Do you have a date after which you feel like you'll relax a little? I know that sounds stupid, but....you understand I bet.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
Interested to know what you are all thinking/feeling re the health care reform? I know you're excited PiePie (via FB) but I'm a bit surprised by just how excited everyone is. From my reading of it, this plan still lines the pockets of the very rich insurance companies and leaves faaaaaaar too many people without coverage.... maybe I'm a cynic or perhaps I'm just an idealistic socialist????!

MMM, I feel how you feel - surprised by all the fuss. But my achilles heel has always been sacrificing the good for the perfect. And I can say from experience that the pre-existing condition bit is a big deal - I'm getting denied now because of our car accident, even when auto is picking up the tab. Be curious to hear other opinions.


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## accountclosed3

sorry i'm behind.









congrats, awesome, yay, amazing. boo, OZ re: midwifery.

busy here.


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## PiePie

yes, i have told myself that i will relax once a heartbeat can be heard externally at 10 weeks. not sure that we are telling anyone other than online ppl, so pls no mention on fb yet.


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## Maela

PiePie, Congratulations!! I hope the weeks fly by for you peacefully!

Jaim is getting closer and closer to being able to sit up on his own; it's so exciting! He's also trying so hard to scoot/army crawl. It almost seems like he's getting frustrated with himself sometimes. I think he's going to be so much happier when he becomes more mobile. He just really wants to be up and moving all the time. maybe he wants to catch up to his sister.


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## witchygrrl

hooray for Jaim!

A personal update: I had an interview this mroning at DH's summer camp as an office manager. I really like who I'd be working with (besides DH--though I won't see him much) though it would definitely mean Rhea would be in daycare 5 days a week. But there were 150 applicants for it. Personally I think I only got an interview because DH emailed them saying I'd be great for the job. Nice to have connections, but let's see if it pays off.

Otherwise, I might be teaching a bit this summer, which would still mean some daycare, or maybe I'll go through SitterCity if it's a short enough time durng the day. Agh. If this were next year, Rhea would just go to camp with us.

And I'm apparently really allergic to AmLactin. I stopped using it Saturday and I'm still itchy and red today. Yuck.


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## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchygrrl* 
hooray for Jaim!

A personal update: I had an interview this mroning at DH's summer camp as an office manager. I really like who I'd be working with (besides DH--though I won't see him much) though it would definitely mean Rhea would be in daycare 5 days a week. But there were 150 applicants for it. Personally I think I only got an interview because DH emailed them saying I'd be great for the job. Nice to have connections, but let's see if it pays off..









How did the interview go?


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## MujerMamaMismo

We're in hell. I'm this close to giving Sebby drugs to sleep (and I'm only half kidding.)

I cannot go on like this and I don't know what to do. We've eliminated everything. We've tried Shanna's diet. Nothing works. In the few stretches that he did sleep last night, he slept on in 20-50minute blocks. My nipples are raw. I cry every time he latches on.

We've just started with a new homeopath and it seems to have gotten worse. I wasn't expecting an overnight miracle but I cannot do _worse_.


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## Maela

MMM -







sleep deprivation is torture. It makes it so hard to parent like I want to! I hope things get better soon.


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## witchygrrl

MMM-I said this on FB, but







I hope it gets better.Wish I had advice for you though









Interview went well, but I won't find out until next week or so.

Oh, and I'm fighting something awful off. I had an allergic reaction to AmLactin that's still raging even though I haven't used any since Saturday, I have cold sores on either side of my mouth, I have a cough and I feel stuffy. I haven't slept well all week, and I can't blame Rhea for it, just my stupid insomnia.

Blah. Sorry for the vent.


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## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
We're in hell. I'm this close to giving Sebby drugs to sleep (and I'm only half kidding.)

I cannot go on like this and I don't know what to do. We've eliminated everything. We've tried Shanna's diet. Nothing works. In the few stretches that he did sleep last night, he slept on in 20-50minute blocks. My nipples are raw. I cry every time he latches on.

We've just started with a new homeopath and it seems to have gotten worse. I wasn't expecting an overnight miracle but I cannot do _worse_.

I'm so, so sorry sweetie







. Could be that homeopathy is working, it can get worse before it gets better when it is working.

What is he eating? Did you elim too? I hate asking yhat, as if you aren't trying hard enough









How is he waking up? Is he terroring, or just wanting to play?

Fenton was a monster with his sinus infection - how is he when he's getting sick? Is it possible he has a sore throat or other symptom you can't see?

I'm just so sorry MMM - it can make you feel literally crazy.


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## accountclosed3

MMM:

can you use a nipple shield with him to at least take some of the pain out of the equation? when hawk began latching without one, i had the normal transition. i would alternate between using the shield and not--to give myself a break and also to keep him latching without one. it helped me at least.

also, i know you've probably already tried this, but have you gone to a sleep specialist?

--------

my sister is pregnant!







: it's brand new--as in very early. but i had a dream about it last wednesday (tuesday night into wednesday), and so i do believe it will stick. I dreamed of our Tiger (cat from childhood), whom i believe is on the return, but also it is the chinese Year of the Tiger. so, like my Rat Dream with hawk (hawk was born year of the Rat), there's that connection too.

so, we are planning a return to the US around christmas time, to see the little one. I'm hoping to teach a number of classes over the time there so that i can recover some of the money or at least use part of it as a write-off. i'll have to talk to my accountants about it.


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## PiePie

trying to add some yoga/pilates into my life to help my body avoid m/s.

partially weaning dd -- limiting nursing to around sleep. somewhat flexible on it if i am in bed or if dh is not around in the morning to help out. not nearly as traumatic as i had feared. she basically doesn't seem to mind! we will see what happens when i end things completely, but i am shocked at how she doesn't need it. i am still loving nursing but i know i won't forever (i know no woman who has loved nursing for 9 mos. of pregnancy) so i want to end on an up note for us. i also just feel like she is more ready than she was my last pregnancy, when she was under 2.

okay, back to exercising. no more procrastinating!


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## Angelorum

*Piepie* Congratulations! I'm so excited for you!

*MMM*I wish you patience and a solution for your night time woes. That really sounds like pure torture.

*Shanna* Your plan sounds awesome. I've often day dreamed about making a living doing so many of the small things that I love, I can't wait to hear how it all turns out for you guys.

Things are pretty good here, Westley is pulling up to stand already. He doesn't even crawl on his hands and knees yet, just slithers on his belly, and now he's getting close to cruising. All this mobility is starting to get challenging when I bring him to work. There's no door to the area I work in, so he's starting to get curious and crawl out into the store. He also wants to endlessly play on a little step we have in front of the cutting table. He's getting better at navigating it without falling off, but I feel like I have to watch him closely while he's over there. Doesn't make for getting much work done. I'd really like to start leaving him with dh more often, but he's kind of resistant to that idea. I understand why, Westley is pretty anxious without me around, he's still not really into solids, and dh has work he's got to get done too. I just feel a little resentful at times that he's not more willing to try it.

When did your babies start really being comfortable with your partners? If Westley's in a good mood he'll stay and play in dh's office with him for about an hour, but any longer than that, or if he's tired or cranky, he'll have nobody but me.


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 
When did your babies start really being comfortable with your partners? If Westley's in a good mood he'll stay and play in dh's office with him for about an hour, but any longer than that, or if he's tired or cranky, he'll have nobody but me.

For us, it depended completely on their mood. Although both of them were/are more likely to stay with dh better than grandparents without me there. it took DD longer to be comfortable with dh alone than it's taken DS. he seems to like Dh more at this age than DD did. Last night he actually went to sleep in dh's arms after cooing at him and playing with his nose for a few minutes. It was so sweet!!







Dh was pretty pleased!!


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## Maela

DS is going to be 6mo on Sunday!! Woo hoo!!

And DD is pretty much PLed! She has had 0 accidents during the day in the last 3 weeks and only three nights of wet pullups. I'd like to try underwear at night, but I think I'll wait a few more weeks.


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## cking

Sorry I've been MIA. Lots of adjusting going on here.

Shanna, very exciting changes happening for your family. I think it's great that things are coming together, and you have an awesome new career ahead of you. You'll be amazing. I totally get what you mean about not being the expert between the two of you. I'm looking forward to that day, but I think we're not quite ready for that yet. And a belated Happy Birthday to Fenton!

Maela, wow, I can't believe Jaim is almost 6 months! Time flies, huh. I know Nicholas' first year is going to feel much shorter than Josephine's.

MMM, how are you doing now?









My little girl is turning two tomorrow. I can't believe it. But I am totally excited for the changes, and the upcoming summer with my big two year old.







She has totally had a growth spurt recently - she outgrew all of her clothes, all of the sudden.

I'm also very excited to give her her gift - a balance bike. A couple weeks ago while walking in the park, she saw a little boy on a bike, looked up at us and said "Want to ride a bike!"







(although I'm sure it'll take her a while to get the hang of it....)

and a big party here on Saturday, over 30 people. I hope the weather forecast is correct and we can keep it outside.







:


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## Maela

happy birthday josephine!!!


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## Maela

I've been coming here for 4 years today!


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## PiePie

dd was always comfortable with dh, but we have been through periods of maternal preference (and a little paternal preference) that come and go. i try to accept that they will come and go and that it will be the other one's turn all in good time. it was a big help when dh stayed home with her 1 day a week for a couple of mos. when i went back to work -- a help for her bond with him and a help for his sense of himself as a competent parent. i second *maela*'s suggestion to get the heck out of the house if you want them to really bond.

i am good. okay, gotta go; somebody needs to wear her swim goggles right now.


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## witchygrrl

Hi all, Happy April. I'm amused by the Swedish Chef-ness.Rhea is sick with a cold now...sigh. Hopefully this is the last one of winter.


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
partially weaning dd -- limiting nursing to around sleep. somewhat flexible on it if i am in bed or if dh is not around in the morning to help out. not nearly as traumatic as i had feared. she basically doesn't seem to mind! we will see what happens when i end things completely, but i am shocked at how she doesn't need it. i am still loving nursing but i know i won't forever (i know no woman who has loved nursing for 9 mos. of pregnancy) so i want to end on an up note for us. i also just feel like she is more ready than she was my last pregnancy, when she was under 2.

okay, back to exercising. no more procrastinating!

PiePie, this is kind of how it was for us. I mean, Maev cared about it less than I thought she would. I guess it just means that they're ready?

good for you for exercising!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchygrrl* 
Hi all, Happy April. I'm amused by the Swedish Chef-ness.Rhea is sick with a cold now...sigh. Hopefully this is the last one of winter.

Ugh, I am SO tired of my kids being sick what seems like all. the. time! I hope it's a quick one for her.


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## MujerMamaMismo

Belated birthday love for *Josephine!*









Lots happening here...but a long story short...
Sebby slept from 6.30pm to 3.30am without needing me to help him resettle!(meaning he woke up momentarily but managed to resettle very quickly, without me!) He then nursed at 3.30, slept 'til 6, nursed, then slept until nearly 8o'clock! Unbelievable.









I think we've been to hell and we're on the train back home!

I think I owe my life to that gorgeous homeopath. Truly. It got very dark here for a while. I cannot tell you the relief I'm feeling.


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## Angelorum

MMM that's awesome! Only 2 night wakings sounds like bliss!


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## accountclosed3

i'm so glad it is working out MMM! i was thinking about you.

hawk caught hand, foot, and mouth disease. it's just a little virus that goes fever, sore throat little blister-like sores in and around the mouth, on hands and feet.

now i have it, but just sores in the mouth. oh, and general malaise.

anyway, got it from hazel and huck--two kids of a friend. they thought those two had chicken pox--because of the spots--but then it "turned out to be nothing."

ok, so then we play with them, and we get it.

here is what i learned: HFMD is a non-threatening virus that usually affects children and rarely adults. the primary symptoms usually last 2-5 days, but the virus can still be passed on for 7 to 10 days after that.

oh well, what can you do. so, i'm tired, but invoicing. oh, and i posted picture of our place on the thread in decluttering about "pictures of your clean solpace"--if you were interested. lol


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## witchygrrl

Yeah, apparently it's going around here too. I think it's also called Coxsackie. Hmmm, I wonder if tha's why Rhea was cranky last weekend. She had sores on her chin, and they've gone away. Her cold's almost gone too thankfully.

It was such a beautiful spring day. We got quite a bit of housecleaning done, but so much more to go.


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## Maela

MMM, I posted on FB, but I'll say it here too. Yay!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
hawk caught hand, foot, and mouth disease. it's just a little virus that goes fever, sore throat little blister-like sores in and around the mouth, on hands and feet.

now i have it, but just sores in the mouth. oh, and general malaise.

anyway, got it from hazel and huck--two kids of a friend. they thought those two had chicken pox--because of the spots--but then it "turned out to be nothing."

ok, so then we play with them, and we get it.

here is what i learned: HFMD is a non-threatening virus that usually affects children and rarely adults. the primary symptoms usually last 2-5 days, but the virus can still be passed on for 7 to 10 days after that.

oh well, what can you do. so, i'm tired, but invoicing. oh, and i posted picture of our place on the thread in decluttering about "pictures of your clean solpace"--if you were interested. lol

Good to know, and I hope you're feeling better soon!
I love that thread, so I'll go over and take a look.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchygrrl* 
Yeah, apparently it's going around here too. I think it's also called Coxsackie.

Okay, the immature part of me is saying, "Hmm...what an interesting name."














Dh will think it's funny.

Dh is on spring break!! Woo hoo!! And I got to go out with my friends tonight for a couple of hours. Ds did great with Dh. If only he could do that well with the grandparents. We can't leave him for more than an hour with them.


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## witchygrrl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maela* 

Okay, the immature part of me is saying, "Hmm...what an interesting name."














Dh will think it's funny.

I was thinking the exact same thing. We can both be immature then


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchygrrl* 
I was thinking the exact same thing. We can both be immature then









Oh good!









Dd is going to be spending *two* nights away from us with Dh's family in Santa Cruz this weekend. I know she's going to be fine and she'll really enjoy it, but *I'm* going to have a hard time; I just know it. I have a hard enough time when she spends the night with her grandparents once a month. She's very attached to her Papa and she's very excited about it, so I need to be brave...









We're not going because, frankly, Ds is a drag on trips. He doesn't like the car or restaurants. He's too young for sunscreen (IMO) and he can't ride on any boardwalk rides. dh and I decided we wouldn't really have any fun bringing him, but we didn't want to stop Dd from having fun.

We will be going to North Carolina and Georgia in June with Dh's family. I'm hoping he does well on the plane, but I'm not going to get my hopes up. I'm hoping I can distract him with some food by then. He'll be 8.5 months. He doesn't nurse for comfort or out of boredom, so we'll see how it goes... That'll be too much fun to pass on though. It should be worth it. Oh, also we'll be seeing our niece for the first time!


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## arelyn

*Congrats piepie!!







*

MMM: Glad the little man is getting better!

Attaching to DH: Kai only really started really enjoying time alone with DH once he was 2. He was fine with him if I was nearby but he would always get nervous if I was out of sight. By 2 1/2 he even started letting DH put him to bed without me. I don't know why it took so long, I was way laid back and encouraging both of them. It wasn't like I was insinuating that DH was incompetant. I was always the one saying "No, Papa's good at playing with/feeding/snuggling/changing you too. Papa can do it!" I'm just glad they're buddies now!


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## Maela

The day before yesterday I had a very tiny bit of ice cream, and yesterday I had a tiny bit of cow's milk.







So far, no fussiness from Jaim! We'll see... I miss cheese so much!


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## Angelorum

for you Maela I also missed cheese a lot when I had to cut it out. Now we're looking at possibly needing to cut dairy for dh, so I may have to go back to making dairy free dinners again







. At least I can eat it myself for lunch though!

Westley stayed with dh yesterday when I went in for my annual woman exam. I had to wait for quite a long time, and was gone for a total of 2 hours. Dh said he was doing really well at first, until he bonked his head and I wasn't there to nurse him. Dh took him to the park to distract him, and while he was a little fussy, overall it wasn't bad.


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## accountclosed3

so, ryan's out on another man-date. men are so funny, they seem to make friend's easily. i've been doing ok here, slowly meeting different women and families with whom i really get along.

we got into the steiner play group! i'm so excited to start--it's next week on thursday! this weekend, we are going to try the bus up there and walk back and see how far it is. if i can walk it both ways, i will--but the hill is pretty daunting. even though my pants are completely falling off these days, i find myself competely winded on these hills with the kid on my back!

so, i might bus there and walk back, yk?

but, i'm psyched to meet more steiner-inspired families.

also, we are planning out our thanksgiving for late may. making out the guest list and planning the food. so, psyched about that.


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
so, ryan's out on another man-date. men are so funny, they seem to make friend's easily. i've been doing ok here, slowly meeting different women and families with whom i really get along.

we got into the steiner play group! i'm so excited to start--it's next week on thursday! this weekend, we are going to try the bus up there and walk back and see how far it is. if i can walk it both ways, i will--but the hill is pretty daunting. even though my pants are completely falling off these days, i find myself competely winded on these hills with the kid on my back!

so, i might bus there and walk back, yk?
but, i'm psyched to meet more steiner-inspired families.

also, we are planning out our thanksgiving for late may. making out the guest list and planning the food. so, psyched about that.









I wish I could make friends easily. I have one friend from high school who has just moved back in the area who is a SAHM and parents pretty similarly. We're not really that close anymore, but we've had a few "playdates" and hopefully things will continue to go well. I have a couple of other closer friends who don't parent as much the same as me and they WOHM. Which is fine, but I really need some friends that I can get together with during the day. I really need to try to get together with some of the LLL moms that I know outside of the meetings, but I'm too shy.









I'm glad to hear you got into your playgroup *ZB!*


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## MujerMamaMismo

Making like minded Mama friends can be really tough. Making Mama friends at all is tough. I really had to learn to be brave and put myself out there. It was worth it, I've got a lovely bunch of friends now and I seem to be making more and more. *Maela*, I highly recommend inviting LLL Mama's over for coffee or playdates. I've got a couple of great friends now from being brave and doing exactly that.

*Zoebird* - glad to hear that you're getting on with it in NZ and that everything seems to be moving forward. Remind me, are you planning to home school / unschool with Steiner inspiration or are you planning to Steiner educate?


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## MujerMamaMismo

So much wonderful stuff going on here folks - I should be studying so will keep this brief...

I have my first student doula client...and she's due next week! I'm sooooooo excited and very very nervous. She's a friend of a friend and coincidentally an old neighbour of ours so while the lead time hasn't been long, we have known each other for a long time and have a lovely rapport. It's a midwife led hospital birth and she wishes for no intervention so I feel like it will be a good birth for me to start with if it goes to plan.

Birthing from Within are coming to Melbourne in September. This is the first time they've been to Australia and although we're broke I was $420 in birthday money this year which is exactly what it costs!!! I'm booked in to do their 3 day workshop! Can you believe how lucky I am? This is an amazing year for me.

And Sebby is sleeping! Waking 1, 2 or 3 times a night but sleeping really decent chunks. I'm off to the homeopath tomorrow so that I can learn to sleep again. I've been waking up at 2 or 3 and lying there for hours!

And we start TTC #2 next month! Eeeeeeek!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So much positive and life affirming stuff. I'm so busy but so inspired.

It's been quiet here. Would love to hear how others are going. xox


----------



## PiePie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 

And we start TTC #2 next month! Eeeeeeek!!!!!!!!!!!!!


! I had no idea it was this soon.

I am still pregnant, I think. No blood tests or anything: I feel like that would tell me I was pregnant as of then but who knows what's next? I have had waves of severe nausea -- 12 hours of vomiting -- and waves of bad but functional nausea, like right now (at work, but was VERY late, without explanation, for like the millionth time this month), and waves of no nausea which I never had with DD. So I am cautiously optimistic. Not really counting it as a thing until I hear the external heartbeat -- MW's appt scheduled for 2 weeks from today. Am 8 w, 1 d, for those of you keeping score at home. I am planning on not disclosing unless confronted about nausea or hear external heartbeat, whichever comes first. Then the interest in disclosing would be to request an accommodation of working from home one day a week. Also very tired, very low energy. Having more downtime at home with DD is fun for me. Yesterday she spent a long time just combing my hair. Way too fat to wear any pants without elastic waistband comfortably. No bump, just fat. Need to request maternity pants but they are in storage at parents' place and haven't disclosed to them. Eating tons.


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
! I had no idea it was this soon.

I am still pregnant, I think. No blood tests or anything: I feel like that would tell me I was pregnant as of then but who knows what's next? I have had waves of severe nausea -- 12 hours of vomiting -- and waves of bad but functional nausea, like right now (at work, but was VERY late, without explanation, for like the millionth time this month), and waves of no nausea which I never had with DD. So I am cautiously optimistic. Not really counting it as a thing until I hear the external heartbeat -- MW's appt scheduled for 2 weeks from today. Am 8 w, 1 d, for those of you keeping score at home. I am planning on not disclosing unless confronted about nausea or hear external heartbeat, whichever comes first. Then the interest in disclosing would be to request an accommodation of working from home one day a week. Also very tired, very low energy. Having more downtime at home with DD is fun for me. Yesterday she spent a long time just combing my hair. Way too fat to wear any pants without elastic waistband comfortably. No bump, just fat. Need to request maternity pants but they are in storage at parents' place and haven't disclosed to them. Eating tons.

Sounds exactly like 1st tri to me (for me anyway)! Times when I felt so sick, other times with no nausea at all (and of course I freaked out about it), just looking and feeling fat and exhausted. It seems to me like your pg.








I'll be thinking about you in the next couple of weeks and sending you sticky baby vibes.


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## Maela

MMM, Yay! I'm glad things are going so well for you!

Dh said the other day, "Why can't babies just come out at this age?" Ever since turning 6 months Jaim has been a fun, easy-going baby. We're loving it! He leans toward and kind of reaches out to whoever he wants to hold him. He'll play a game of reaching to someone and then when they're holding him he'll reach out to the first person, switching back and forth like that. I think he likes knowing he has all that control







The other day he made the "dada" sound. Not really referring to dh, but dh was still excited about it of course. Jaim is still not quite sitting up on his own. He can sit for ~10 seconds unassisted when he has a cloth diaper on. I think he'll be scooting/crawling sometime in May. He's so close!

Maev is wanting to do everything herself. Go to the bathroom (I make her let me wipe if she goes poop), put on her shoes, etc. She can finally reach our lightswitches, and she's really proud that she can turn the light onall by herself. Actually she's just tall enough to turn them on, but not off.







So I hold up Jaim and he turns them off. He's getting pretty good. What's difficult with Maev right now is that she is SO whiny! EVERYTHING makes her mad/sad. I'm really trying to be patient, but the whining grates on my nerves. She is so lovable though! She's learned how to make the 'I love you' sign with her hands, and I use that to show her that I'm still thinking about her when I'm trying to put Jaim to sleep. Often she'll see me do that, she'll make the sign back at me and then she'll go quietly and happily off to play.


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## accountclosed3

mmm:

we are on the fence about educating vs home/unschooling with a steiner influence. i lean more toward the unschooling side of things, though, because i don't think i want too didactic of an experience for him.

i think the playgroup, and perhaps kindy a day or two a week when he gets to be the right age (3 is usually the right age here)--but that's only if i feel he's ready for a kindy environment. i might also volunteer at the kindy while he is there.

does that mean i'm being a control freak?

anyway, i can't decide which way i want to go, but the steiner school has a homeschooling community, so i can connect through them.

i can't believe you are getting ready for number 2! that's wild. seems like only yesterday that Sebby was born! awesome!

Piepie:

the sickness doesn't sound like fun, but i do hope that you are pregnant because you have those symptoms. it would not be fun to have them and not be pregnant.

fingers crossed for you!


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## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
! I had no idea it was this soon.

Re TTC #2 - I'm starting to think seriously about waiting until the end of the year now. This is such a big year and I'm really loving my recent taste of autonomy and the possibility of earning some dollars sooner rather than later...but by the same token, I'm pretty keen to get this baby thing out of the way...I know that the further away I get from it, the more reluctant I will be to go back there but I really want at least 2 kids.

How do you make these grown up decisions? What do you folks think?

*PiePie* - sounds like you're moving in the right direction. Thinking of you!


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
Re TTC #2 - I'm starting to think seriously about waiting until the end of the year now. This is such a big year and I'm really loving my recent taste of autonomy and the possibility of earning some dollars sooner rather than later...but by the same token, I'm pretty keen to get this baby thing out of the way...I know that the further away I get from it, the more reluctant I will be to go back there but I really want at least 2 kids.

How do you make these grown up decisions? What do you folks think?

*PiePie* - sounds like you're moving in the right direction. Thinking of you!

Well, for me, like you said I wanted to just get it done and over with. Some people are great with pg and babies but I'm not. So I don't really feel like I'm "getting on with my life" until I my kids are at least toddlers. I know that sounds horrible; I just kind of feel like my life is put on hold right now while I make sure this little one makes it to a year with lots of attention and love. Not that I stop parenting at a year, it just becomes more natural and fun for me. So *I* would want to have my babies sooner rather than putting it off.

I hope that didn't sound terrible. I didn't mean it that way.


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## witchygrrl

I don't think it's terrible. Little babies are tons of work and exhausting. Not that toddlers aren't those things, but at least they're more interactive.

We're taking a daycation and then heading to see the in-laws tomorrow. We spend almost all of our free weekends with them, and we need to not do that just once. So we're getting a hotel room tomorrow night, and then spending the next day in a nice town in Western MA before we head down to NJ.

Still nothing on the job I applied for, which is frustrating. But I am having some success with eliminating grains in my diet. I feel better and have lost some weight, finally. I'd like to lose another 20, if not 30, but I'll take the 5 as a good start.


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## Rico'sAlice

If you'll be near Great Barrington (Southern Berkshire County) let me know! Maybe we could get together, or I might have some good suggestions for you (food, activities) if you need any.


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## witchygrrl

Alice, that would be cool, but we're not going quite so far as you this time (only to Northampton and perhaps a pitstop to Wilbraham to visit family before we hop down 91). HOWEVER, I do want to get out there at some point, so I'll definitely take you up on that. Thanks!!


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## Maela

He's scooting on his tummy to get to toys now!







I'm going to try to be better about keeping the floor clean now.


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## Maela

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...7#post15338847


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## witchygrrl

Maela, I'm still terrible about keeping the floors clearer. A work in progress, I guess.









We're starting on nightweaning, finally. I had been reluctant, but I think it's time. Last night went really well. I nursed her while she was getting her last bedtime story, and she popped off herself in the middle of it, and then found a cuddly spot for herself, and went off to sleep without any further ado. She did wake up around 4AM, I think, for a topoff, because she wasn't responding to anything else, but just not nursing her until she falls asleep is a plus for me.

And while I didn't get the job I interviewed for, DH is being interviewed next week for the job he really really wants. I hope I hope I hope I hope!


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## accountclosed3

i hope the job interview goes well; i'm sorry that you din't get the job you wanted.

business here is going great. as of monday, it looks like i only have two half days and one full day to fill, with three people on the list to discuss possibilities. one does tui na and accupuncture (so it might be an issue with our current acupuncturist); one is does network spinal analysis (a form of energy-based chiropractic); and the other is a naturopath. i'd like all three. LOL

yoga should start up in June.


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## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
Re TTC #2 - I'm starting to think seriously about waiting until the end of the year now. This is such a big year and I'm really loving my recent taste of autonomy and the possibility of earning some dollars sooner rather than later...but by the same token, I'm pretty keen to get this baby thing out of the way...I know that the further away I get from it, the more reluctant I will be to go back there but I really want at least 2 kids.

How do you make these grown up decisions? What do you folks think

You're asking the wrong lady, here. Abby's just over 2yo and we're still hemming and hawing over whether to have #2 at all. I think we're about 90% yes right now.

But still 10% no because we're not looking forward to:
1) The baby phase. I much prefer parenting once they can walk.
2) Possibly having to give up even more of our individual time for our passions (me=writing, DH=homebrewing).
3) Sibling fights.

On the 90% side is:
1) Another unique little person to get to know and love and to watch grow up.









For timing, I know we need to do it soon before we lose our nerve. I know what you mean about getting the baby thing out of the way. And I'm only getting older every year that passes...

FYI: We're currently planning to start pre-TTC cleanse in July, then start TTC in October. So if we get super lucky right off the bat, Abby would be 3 when new baby is born.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maela* 
He's scooting on his tummy to get to toys now!







I'm going to try to be better about keeping the floor clean now.









Aw, it's so fun when they start getting mobile!

*PiePie:* I'm thinking of you!
*
witchygrrl:* I'm sorry about the job.







But congrats on starting the nightweaning process. It makes such a huge difference. I wish I had started it earlier, but we waited til Abby was already 2.

*A question for y'all:* We have these friends, a childless couple who plans to stay that way. They've invited us to stay with them this summer at their house in San Francisco. As you might imagine, it's a cozy (i.e. very small) house.

I really want to go, especially if we're going to be TTCing this fall because it'll be so much easier to travel with 1 DC instead of 2.

BUT my concern is how our friends will handle having a 2yo who throws about 1 tantrum a day and wants to inspect/unpack/pull out everything in sight. I would ask them how they feel, but I think 1) they would out of niceness say of course we should come, and 2) they don't know what it's really like to live with a 2yo.

What would you do? Would you go?


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## Angelorum

Child Spacing- We for sure want to have more than 1, probably more than 2, maybe even 4 or 5







. Right now I feel like my body needs a good space between kids. Westley is 9 months old now. I was hoping by 9 months I'd have full body function back (9 months to get hugely pregnant and 9 months to recover, right?) While my prepregnancy weight and size returned without trouble unfortunately I think my pelvic floor is still significantly weaker than it was pre-birth. I feel like if I don't fix it before getting pregnant again, there is no chance of having a pregnancy as comfortable as my first was. Over the last couple days I've taken note of how often I am unable to brace my pelvic floor properly when I'm lifting/carrying Westley or doing other things that cause strain on those muscles. It's pretty depressing. I hadn't had any stress incontinence for a long time, so I thought things were improving, then I went to a dance aerobics class and realized how much farther I've got to go. So, definitely recommiting to the kegels!

The 4 kids in my family are all around 3 years apart. I think it was a good amount of space. We were close enough in age to play with each other as kids, but not so close it put a big strain on my mother's body.

This probably is only because Westley was such a laid back little baby, but I find myself thinking that some things were much easier when he was teeny compared to now.


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## PiePie

good news is that there is a heartbeat (and only 1 heartbeat) at 10 weeks.

bad news is i requested and got a very small accommodation for work due to hyperemesis and the first time i used it, yesterday, my boss jumped all over me. i cannot go through this pregnancy discrimination thing again, i just can't. i am trying to control my anxiety and see this as something less than the apocalypse but ua violation.


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## accountclosed3

i'm sorry you're going through that right now, PiePie. it sucks. But, congratulations on our 10wker.







you are probably due about the same time as my sister!


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## witchygrrl

PiePie, can you get them on pregnancy discrimination? I know it was not great at your prevous job, but that's so completely unfair...

But I'm glad you made it to 10 weeks







Congrats!

My best friend is newly pregnant and due the middle of December. It was not planned, but she's happy now. I'm very excited for her!


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## Maela

*PiePie*, Yay!







and that sucks!
















I swear Jaim just took 2 steps today before he fell down. I'm not crazy, my dad saw it too. I'm sure it will be a couple more months before he takes more, but wow! He's only 7 months, but he's just go, go, go all the time. He's always got to be up and moving. He loves to walk around while I hold his hands. I'm excited...and a little nervous.







What is this kid going to be like as a toddler?!


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## ~Shanna~




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## Maela

Shanna, we miss you! How are you? Tell us when you have time!


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## cking

too.


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## PiePie

here's my thread re nightweaning: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...5#post15390855


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## Maela

jaim is normally a good sleeper, but here I am at 2am. He's awake, not incredibly happy, looking ver tired, but not nursing or falling asleep. What's wrong with this kid. No fever, but he has pooped three times since waking at midnight. It looked normal though. ??


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## Maela

Boy is it slow in here!









Jaim is fine. I think he must have just had a tummy ache. He didn't eat anything different. 99.9999% of his food still comes from breastmilk -and I don't think I ate anything different from usual. Oh well. He hasn't had a problem since.

He's the happiest baby ever now! And Maev is really being sweet lately too. I love my kids so much.


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## Maela

Two very good friends had babies last week. The friend who had a boy didn't circ! Woo hoo!
I can't wait until our kids are all a little older and running around together.


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## TwilightJoy

Posting so Maela feels better.
















Random fact: I have a new found love with lia sophia jewelry.


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## charliemae

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwilightJoy* 
Posting so Maela feels better.
















Random fact: I have a new found love with lia sophia jewelry.

































Fancy!


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## Angelorum

Maela- I often think about Westley running around with other little babies we know in the future. I go to an AP playgroup sometimes, and the older kids are all so cute!

When and how did everyone's babes transition to one nap a day? I think Westley may be going that direction, his 2 naps have been really short lately, like 1/2 or less the time they used to be. I tried keeping him up longer today before his first nap, he was really tired by the time he went down, but he still only slept for 40 minutes. It's making it really hard to get things done.


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## cking

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 

When and how did everyone's babes transition to one nap a day? I think Westley may be going that direction, his 2 naps have been really short lately, like 1/2 or less the time they used to be. I tried keeping him up longer today before his first nap, he was really tired by the time he went down, but he still only slept for 40 minutes. It's making it really hard to get things done.

It took a while, a few months maybe, and happened somewhere around a year. It wasn't really a smooth transition - some days were two naps, some were one, and then there were days with no naps.







Also, it was tricky trying to get her to eat lunch before her nap. It'll work out, eventually, but ikwym, it was very hard to get out of the house for a while.

lots more to say, just wish I could find more time to post. I miss you guys!

Nicholas is three months old today (well, yesterday). And he's a big kid - He weighs 15 lbs, 10 oz!


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cking* 
Nicholas is three months old today (well, yesterday). And he's a big kid - He weighs 15 lbs, 10 oz!









Happy 3 months!! Wow, he probably weighs just as much or more than Jaim - my skinny little boy.

I don't remember when Maev went to one nap a day. It was sometime between six months and 12 months, I know that for sure. Maybe around 9 months? It is tough during transitions like that







, because you're never sure what you're going to get each day, until they're fully transitioned over. Right now we've just finished transitioning from 3 to 2 naps a day. So glad to have it over and pretty much figured out.

ETA: Oh and thanks for the post TJ!


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## PiePie

DD started the transition at 9.5 mos. and had completed it, more or less (backsliding 1 day a week, about) by 12.5 mos.

9 mos. is the very outside earliest, 3 is the latest, and 18 mos. is the average.

also when her nap dropped to 1, we moved it to earlier in teh afternoon, so it's 1 to 3.


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## PiePie

Lots of sleep drama here. I want to wean DD. It doesn't hurt much, not as badly as it used to, but I don't want to tandem and I do think that giving myself more of myself would be good right now in terms of taking care of my pregnant, exhausted self. At my initiation, we limited nursing to sleep time (nap and night) very easily.

Next step seemed to be a boobless bedtime. I tried to have DH step up and put her to bed without the boob. Well she resists and he is a disaster at managing it. It takes her a long time to wind down (not that that has never happened even with nursing) and he doesn't have the patience for it; his frustation, I think, just makes her mood more opposition and amped up. Life these past few mos. has involved a lot more work on the home front than he is used to -- picking up some chores I used to do, much more taking care of her when I need to lie down, which is a lot, and some caretaking of me (not as much of that as I would like because, I think, playing with DD is more fun).

So last night after he attempted to get her down, she ran away from him to me, he felt bad and therefore fell asleep (this is a pattern), I decided I would nurse her for 4 minutes and then transfer her to cuddling with him. I do not know how I am going to manage bedtimes with 2 but I do think it would help if DH could put her down so we could have that as an option if I think that is where the relative needs point. That did not work, she was very upset with ending the nursing session, proceeded to try a million stall tactics (general bedtime resistance) like potty, demanding snack, etc.

She had a huge tantrum over something I could have fixed (she wanted snack in plastic bag rather than plate) but I felt that it wasn't really about that but about something else and she just needed to cry, get it out, and then sleep. Well I now wonder if that whole philosophy of just riding the tantrum out and not giving in because the kid needs to purge themselves of some underlying emotion isn't radically wrong. We are generally pretty willing to change midstream if it turns out that her preference for something is stronger than we had anticipated and it doesn't matter for us (plate vs. bag). Here I decided to set a limit, not because I generally think kids need limits, but because in this case I thought she would then tantrum over something else until she found some escape valve for her emotions. Well it was by far the hugest tantrum of her life. Massive. Scary for me, frankly, although I am confident I projected calm. She basically does not tantrum much -- I am sure some non-MDC'ers would say that it is because we are too permissive and give in too much. She came back round to why couldn't she nurse (why do the boobies hurt?) and I decided to let her and she nursed to sleep. There was no calm after the storm feeeling. At all.

Then about 2-3 hours later she woke with her first night terror. It was like waking up in a tantrum. Now night terrors can be caused by sleep deprivation (which is the result of these bedtime battles with a fixed wakeup time) or by emotional stress. Not sure which is the culprit here.

I am questioning whether weaning right now is in her interest. The plan (per DH) is to do a boobless bedtime with DH only on weekends.

Thoughts appreciated please!


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## Rico'sAlice

I can't recall, have you tried to get DH to do the boobless bedtime with you out of the house?
DS still nurses to sleep, and screams for me if DH tries to take him upstairs when I'm here, but if I'm out at a meeting or whatever they manage fine.


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## PiePie

*Alice*, I have not. Mostly I am too tired after a long day of work to drag my pregnant self 2 blocks to a coffee shop. Lame, I know, but true. Early pregnancy is rough on me. The plan is to try it with me out of the house on Friday and Saturday night. This Friday I have book club so I would be out anyway, and at least on Saturday I can lie down some in the afternoon, maybe. Thanks for your reply. I feel really really raw today and have been checking back here neurotically looking for a response.


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## TwilightJoy

to PiePie for her hard night. Hopefully things will get better.

What's going on with Steph? And Shanna?


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## Sihaya

*PiePie* -







No advice, but lots of empathy...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwilightJoy* 
What's going on with Steph?


Nothing earth-shattering here. I'm waiting to ovulate - it's our first cycle TTC after the most recent m/c. DS is slowly but surely potty training. DH will be laid off sometime in the next few months. One small crisis after another. So, for the most part, business as usual around here


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## Maela

PiePie,







I agree that getting out of the house is probably the thing to do, as tough as that is when you're tired and pg.


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## PiePie

So I am thinking of doing boobless bedtime cold turkey. It makes me cry to think about it, but when I think about the scenario I want for 2 kids, it does not include tandeming. I am just not certain if I will start this tonight. Do I have the fortitude?


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## witchygrrl

how did it go, PiePie?









DD is getting SUPER clingy. Great, just when I want to put her in daycare...now she can barely stand to have me go to the bathroom, even with DH there. And she's throwng more and more tantrums. Hooray for the terrible 2s....


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## PiePie

I am shocked at how well she is doing going to sleep without the breast. Thursday 5/20 was her first time. I put her to bed, stayed with her, and explained that the milk is all gone. i think she sensed my permanency. Not tantrum, no anger; some sadness and confusion. I owned that I was sad about it too (because I was soooo emotional.) She snuggled with me and her straw cup of special nighttime milk -- with a drop of vanilla. That apparently is a huge hit. I was amazed when she went to sleep and even more shocked when she woke up (partially) multiple times and fed herself from the cup. I barely slept I was watching her all night. Last night I was out till 2 am at my book club (the one thing I do for myself without her or DH) and DH had a bad time getting her down. He does not think that getting her down at midnight is a problem -- she happily stayed up playing zingo, spelling words on the refridgerator with her magnetic letters, etc. I was/am very unhappy about the sleep deprivation but DH thinks she is thriving so why worry. No nap for her today but she did fall asleep super early when we were lying down and reading together. No nighttime routine involved -- just bed plus reading, plus, IMHO, massive sleep deprivation. So we are off to the races. I am so proud of her I can hardly believe it. This is definitely the hardest leap she has had to make -- much more so than going to sch, having me go back to work, anything. So I am in awe here.


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
I am shocked at how well she is doing going to sleep without the breast. Thursday 5/20 was her first time. I put her to bed, stayed with her, and explained that the milk is all gone. i think she sensed my permanency. Not tantrum, no anger; some sadness and confusion. I owned that I was sad about it too (because I was soooo emotional.) She snuggled with me and her straw cup of special nighttime milk -- with a drop of vanilla. That apparently is a huge hit. I was amazed when she went to sleep and even more shocked when she woke up (partially) multiple times and fed herself from the cup. I barely slept I was watching her all night. Last night I was out till 2 am at my book club (the one thing I do for myself without her or DH) and DH had a bad time getting her down. He does not think that getting her down at midnight is a problem -- she happily stayed up playing zingo, spelling words on the refridgerator with her magnetic letters, etc. I was/am very unhappy about the sleep deprivation but DH thinks she is thriving so why worry. No nap for her today but she did fall asleep super early when we were lying down and reading together. No nighttime routine involved -- just bed plus reading, plus, IMHO, massive sleep deprivation. So we are off to the races. I am so proud of her I can hardly believe it. This is definitely the hardest leap she has had to make -- much more so than going to sch, having me go back to work, anything. So I am in awe here.

That's great!!


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## Angelorum

That's awesome PiePie! I'm not so sure I see myself tandeming in the future either. I haven't totally ruled it out, but....IDK. We'll see.

Witchy I was just reading about separation anxiety in my Dr. Sears book, he mentioned that sometimes it can intensify in early toddlerhood. I have been thinking about going back to school then, the idea that it could get even harder to leave him than it is now is...not fun. I tried leaving Westley home with dh when I went to work yesterday. It did not go well. I left as soon as I put him down for his afternoon nap. His naps have been a lot shorter lately, just over an hour max, but apparently, he woke up only 15 minutes after I left. Dh couldn't get him back to sleep, he put him in the wrap and walked for ever, came home and bounced on the exercise ball, and tried all sorts of distractions, but Westley spent most of the two hours I was gone crying







Dh called me 1.5 hours into it to ask me when I could get home. I think I set a speed record at work







. I don't know what to do about it. Westley's getting too mobile to come to work with me, and my manager has been so accommodating about it all and I don't want to make him regret the decision to let me bring baby along in the first place. I always feel guilty asking dh to watch his own child for 3 hours while I go to work, because dh works at home, so it always feels like he is "at work". And dh doesn't help by acting so hesitant. I don't really blame him for feeling hesitant about it when it usually goes so poorly, but part of me thinks that they're just going to have to adjust. He does help out while I'm here, Westley loves to go and play in the office while he's working, and I can always hand him off to go take a shower, or in the middle of the night when dh is up working and Westley decides 2 am is play time. It's just that if Westley is tired or gets upset about something, dh has a terrible time calming him down or getting him to sleep, and then he can't get anything done. I started thinking irrational thoughts yesterday about having 'spoiled' him by never leaving him when he was younger. Being securely attached is supposed to be a good thing, right?


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## PiePie

To clarify my feelings on tandeming, it really has to do with child spacing for me. I think it is a huge challenge for the mommy, and the older sib would have to **need** to nurse in order for the balance to come out in favor of tandeming for me. So yeah, if I had kids 15 mos. apart, I would fully expect to be tandeming. But she is 2 y, 9 m. Does not need to nurse.

And I also agree that taking a baby beyond 5 mos. to work is just too much to ask of most employers. DD was crawling at 5 mos., and I would rather have her with a substitute caregiver who could give her her full attention and her freedom than have her in a playpen, shushed, at that age.

If I have to go back at 4 mos. (the earliest possible, given my benefits situation), then I would demand to bring DD in. I don't think it would fly, at all, though. I have an officemate who has, shall we say, dramatically different views on child-raising than I do, so I can't see her tolerating normal baby sounds, etc. Note that I have a **male** colleague who brings his older baby into work and that is welcomed.


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## PiePie

On separation anxiety, we had a bout at 2 y, 4 m. It lasted only a few days, but they were brutal on me.


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## cking

Yes, tandeming is hard. If Josephine had been say, 6 months older when I got pregnant I might not have thought twice about weaning. (maybe even three months older?







) But also, I've kept some limits. She was down to 3x/day, so we stuck with that, despite her more frequent requests since N arrived. And I quickly learned that I am not capable of nursing two kids at once. Just.can't.do.it. It wasn't too hard to get her to wait without tantruming in those first weeks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 
I started thinking irrational thoughts yesterday about having 'spoiled' him by never leaving him when he was younger. Being securely attached is supposed to be a good thing, right?

I've been having similar irrational thoughts lately. Like how is it that my 3 m.o. can get himself to sleep sucking his thumb while I still have to nurse/comfort my two year old to sleep? It just feels wrong, but everyone I talk to says this is normal and I need to get past the guilt.










But, I do have to say: DD is attached, and she does still have separation anxiety, but she also is very outgoing when she wants to be. It usually takes her a little bit of time to adjust to a new setting, but she often ends up having a blast (with her cousins, with friends, etc.) So it might not seem evident now, but AP does have benefits and you'll see it soon, I think. (I need to remind myself of this on a daily basis.







)


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## Angelorum

PiePie, I agree about the child spacing. Part of the reason why I don't picture myself tandeming is that I don't picture myself having children that close together. I'm really hoping Westley will be 3 before the next is born. No sign of post partum AF yet, so no surprises soon I hope







.

Westley is 10 months on Wednesday. He's come with me to work almost every shift since I went back. I agree that with most jobs it wouldn't work at all at this age, but for lots of reasons it really hasn't been too big of a problem. For one, I work very part time, 3-4 hour shifts max 3 or 4 days a week. I set my own hours, so I can plan around naps or cranky times. Also, it's not an office setting, I work in the back area of a store doing clothing alteration, so there's music playing, salesman and people talking, and the sewing machines making noise. Normal happy baby sounds blend right in. The area I live in is pretty family friendly as well which I think helps. The last baby that "worked" there was full time until about 10 months old when her dad graduated and her mom could quit. That did get tough for everyone. Lots of crying at the end of the day, and a big playpen crowding the sewing room. My manager has only ever said positive things, how cute he is, how he never hears him crying etc. But I'm ready to be able to work without having to chase after him when he tries to go visit the customers.

I left him with dh again today. He slept for an hour, and then was noticeably nervous, but not outright upset for about the next hour. Then after that he was inconsolable until I got home. I think we're going to try short shifts and see if we can gradually lengthen the time I'm away. I just feel so terrible about how upset he is when I get back.


----------



## Angelorum

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
If I have to go back at 4 mos. (the earliest possible, given my benefits situation), then I would demand to bring DD in. I don't think it would fly, at all, though. I have an officemate who has, shall we say, dramatically different views on child-raising than I do, so I can't see her tolerating normal baby sounds, etc. Note that I have a **male** colleague who brings his older baby into work and that is welcomed.









Oh yeah, and this must be so frustrating! Double standard, anyone?









Cking thanks for the reminder re: attachment.


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 
I left him with dh again today. He slept for an hour, and then was noticeably nervous, but not outright upset for about the next hour. Then after that he was inconsolable until I got home. I think we're going to try short shifts and see if we can gradually lengthen the time I'm away. I just feel so terrible about how upset he is when I get back.









That's so hard! I hope he gets used to staying with your dh soon!

Dh and I are now 100% sure that we are happy with two kids. He has an appointment this week with our dr to discuss a vasectomy. Does anyone else here have plans for when you're done having babies? Are you going to use NFP? I would use NFP (it worked pretty well for TTCing), but I'm just too scared of a surprise pg. I do not want a surprise pg. And I don't want the pill or an IUD. We've talked about it, and it seems like a V is the best solution for our family, but I also can't help but be a little scared by the horror stories I've heard.


----------



## witchygrrl

Maela, DH has a referral for a urologist to do a V also. He just needs to call and make the appt. Right now we use condoms during fertile times, and don't in nonfertile times, which is okay for us at the moment.

DH has an interview for yet another school this morning (in 10 minutes, actually). Location is less great, but it's more what DH would want to teach, so it'll be fine. We won't have to move for this one (until we decide to buy), so it's all good.


----------



## Angelorum

Oh







for your dh's interview witchy!

As far as BC after we think we're done, we'll probably just stick to NFP. Maybe I'll feel differently 2 or 3 more kids later, but I don't think I feel comfortable doing something to forever close the door unless there were serious health risks should pregnancy occur. Westley was a complete surprise, (conceived while using a condom, though I knew I was fertile) so obviously I know it can happen, but I take a religious view on those things and figure it happens for a reason.


----------



## PiePie

I would like for DH to get a V. He agrees it makes the most sense but is not down with it emotionally yet. I am comfortable relying on lactational amenorrhea for the first 6 mos. postpartum so he has a while to come around. If not, I guess I will go back on the minipill?? I do not like having to take something every day -- the potential for human error is too great (for me).


----------



## Sihaya

PiePie, If you want to go hormonal, but don't want to take something every day, have you thought about Nuvaring? When I was on it, I loved it (as much as one can like a hormonal method).


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Hello all - aren't we a busy bunch lately. I've missed you all.









Life is so full right now and I'm loving it! (Except that DS has a cold of the green and yellow snot variety at the moment which is slowing us down a bit)

Since I last checked in I attended my first birth. It was 40hrs long and really hard and amazing and ultimately ended in an 'emergency' caesarian birth. Of course, there wasn't any real emergency but the hospital policy is such that women have 24hrs to get the baby out vaginally...same old crappy story. Mama and babe are doing well though and we're arming mama with lots of tools to help her healthily process her birth. Babe is breastfeeding like a champ. It was such an amazing thing to be at and even though it wasn't the outcome we were hoping for, I feel like we did the best we could given the shitty policy environment we were working in. I can't wait for the next one which is a homebirth in September so will hopefully have a different outcome but will definitely be a awesome learning experience.

We're still fighting with sleep though it's better than when we were at rock bottom and these days DS happily goes to sleep with DP which is so refreshing and quite a shock as it happened fairly organically. Our new routine is dinner, bath, books and nursing on the couch and then DP takes DS to bed and lays with him until he falls asleep (this took 5 mins last night!). In the last few nights he's hardly been interested in nursing at all and has taken DPs hand and dragged her to bed. DP loves it too as it's their special time together.

I've just taken over coordinating a childbirth education program that we run which is exciting. I'm not actually teaching it, just facilitating. It's taught by a great bunch of midwives and LC's. It's such a great opportunity to embed myself in the birth world and a great side benefit is that it links me to lots of Mamas who are looking for a doula.

I started my breastfeeding counselling training last week too. Fortunately I can get quite a few credits which means it shouldn't take me too long to get through.

...And I'm managing to do all this stuff because Sebby started a proper full day (1/week) in childcare last week which I am thrilled with and so is he! I was super excited when I learned that he has another kid in with him who has 2 mums and that there are 6 or 7 other 2 mum families at the centre too. It's a really lovely centre with loads of outdoor space and free range chickens and rabbits and the carers are wonderful. The biggest benefit though is that it's on our street so I feel really comfortable leaving him there but equally comfortable knowing that I can get to him fast if I need to. I'm so lucky I got him in there. The waiting list is 2 years long but I've been hassling them for such a long time that they eventually gave in!

Did I tell you that _Birthing from Within_ is coming to Melbourne? In September. They're running a 3 day Introductory mentors workshop. I'm so excited!

*Shanna*, where are you? Have you done your BFW thing yet? What is it that you were doing, I can't remember?

*PiePie* - you must be almost through the first tri now. How's the sickness treating you? Does L know you're pregnant? What does she think?

*cking* - Those pics you posted of N on fb are gorgeous. I might be a bit biased but I love love love chubby babies. (As a sidenote, a mother who came to try out our playgroup asked me why DS was so fat the other day!!! This is a natural parenting playgroup. I nearly died. I tried to be nice in my response but I don't think she'll be back!)
*
Steph* - glad you're on track with a new OB. How's Calvin?
*
Witchy and Maela* - Wow - the big V. Obviously not a decision I will have to make but I admire your determined decision and sureness. We're still back and forward re our next one. Ovulation in May has come and gone so it definitely won't be this month! And it won't be next one and I doubt it'll be the following month either...

*Angelorum* - I'm so impressed that your workplace has allowed you to have Westley there for so long. That's how it should be! What's your plan long term? Is it feasible to put DS in care or to have a carer come to your place? Or work it to fit in with your DH's work?

DS is awake...
xx


----------



## Sihaya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 

*Steph* - glad you're on track with a new OB. How's Calvin?









Oh, him.







He's 2.5










He's still in bed with us though he's had his own mattress next to ours since Dec and starts the night there. But he always ends up next to me by morning.
He's still asking for nursies and to touch them a few times a week, but seems to understand when I say the milk is gone and won't be back until another baby gets here. (He lost his latch when we weaned him. I've tried to teach him to re-latch a few different times since the first m/c in Nov, but I'm pretty sure he's forgotten for good.)
We are very gradually potty training/learning and even though EC never "worked" the way I wanted it to, it's obvious some of it sunk in. As long as he's naked, he pees and poops in his own potty during the day 100% of the time. As soon as we put undies or clothes on him, though, his awareness of needing to go disappears. So, now that it's warm, he's naked at home, in a Bum Genius when we go out, and in a sposie overnight.
He LOVES babies. We told him about both pgs before we lost them since he's not quite old/intelligible enough to out us. He frequently asks if there's a baby in my belly and loves to talk about what babies do (our list: pee, poop, sleep, nurse, and cry). He dotes on every baby he sees and loves to stroke their hair and tell them It's Okay if they're crying.








I think I comment on a daily basis about how big he is and I'm always saying "How did he grow up so fast?" When we were in the baby stage, I really felt like I was taking in every moment and now I feel like it just whizzed by and I have this big kid where my baby was just a few days ago








Otherwise, he's just 2.5. He throws at least one tantrum daily, gets into all kinds of things that I thought I had child-proofed, and is generally a wacky, loving, active little guy.

I keep listening to moms who say they don't like the baby stage or really start enjoying mothering at x age and, while I empathize, I can't fully relate. I







newborns and always have, but every new age/stage he's reached has had it's up and downs but has been, for the most part, enjoyable


----------



## PiePie

*sihaya*, i would totally do nuvaring, except it's not compatible with bfing (bad for supply), and i intend to be bfing my next and final baby for a LONG time.


----------



## Sihaya

*PiePie* - Sorry that's not an option for you. I didn't know it wasn't compatible with bfing because I stopped taking it before DS, but I'm glad I know now so I don't recommend it to bfing mamas.


----------



## Angelorum

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
*Angelorum* - I'm so impressed that your workplace has allowed you to have Westley there for so long. That's how it should be! What's your plan long term? Is it feasible to put DS in care or to have a carer come to your place? Or work it to fit in with your DH's work?

Long term, I'm not sure what we're going to do. It's all complicated by the fact that we are pretty sure dh has a circadian rhythm disorder. He hasn't done a sleep study or anything, because we don't have the money to pay for one, but he fits the description exactly. Basically, his body clock isn't reset with the light cues like most people's, so instead of living on a 24 hour day, his is about 25-26 hours. He goes to sleep an hour or two later than the day before, and wakes up an hour or two later, his schedule just flips around and around.

He's been living like this ever since he graduated and started working on his business full time at home (about 4 years). He struggled with sleep all through college, but he managed to graduate with 2 BAs. Pre baby, this didn't really bother me. I was gone all day at school and work, what did it matter if I saw dh in the morning some days and in the evening others ?

Now though, it makes things difficult, because if I want to take a class, or a regular shift, or do any kind of planned thing without the baby I can't count on DH to be awake during the time I need him to be in charge of caring for Westley. Once Westley is more accustomed to staying at home without me, I don't think it will be too hard for dh to schedule his work around the time I'll be gone, on the days that that time doesn't happen to fall in the middle of dh's night, at least. I need to find some kind of back up care that I can use when dh is needing to sleep. But before I try and leave him with anyone else, I'd like to get him acclimated to staying with dh.

I went to work again today. I kept it short, just 2 hours, and Westley was asleep for the first half of it. He was kind of nervous and touchy, but he didn't have a total melt down. I'm thinking if I can come back before melt down point we'll have better luck getting him used to it, and then I can slowly extend the time until I'm back at 4 hour shifts.


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sihaya* 
I keep listening to moms who say they don't like the baby stage or really start enjoying mothering at x age and, while I empathize, I can't fully relate. I







newborns and always have, but every new age/stage he's reached has had it's up and downs but has been, for the most part, enjoyable









I LOVE newborns too. I could do 0-3months over and over again. It's the following 9 months that really got me.

I'm definitely loving this age a lot (17months) and have been for a couple of months. I love listening to his language develop. He's getting a new word every day at the moment and his gross and fine motor skills blow me away. I just think he's so very clever








DP and I are particularly in love with him right now. We just think he's our perfect kid and have been thanking him daily for choosing us. I must admit though, our complete, undying obsession with him definitely correlates with the completion of those bastard canine teeth coming through! It also correlates with me being really happy with where my life is at. I don't think that can be understated!
*
Witchy* - How'd DH do in his interview? I can't believe how terrible the job market is over there.


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 
It's all complicated by the fact that we are pretty sure dh has a circadian rhythm disorder.

You've probably tried everything and get sick of suggestions but i can't help myself.







Has he tried melatonin? It's available over the counter, isn't costly and has really helped my mum who has spurts of being awake for days and asleep for days.


----------



## witchygrrl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
*
Witchy* - How'd DH do in his interview? I can't believe how terrible the job market is over there.

I think he did all right. He has a hard time reading women's reactions, and he was interviewed by two women. But we won't know anything for awhile...the principal's away for a few weeks, so they can't run second interviews for finalists yet. However, he was well prepared and what he couldn't remember (names of other artists he'd discuss in class), he sent in an immediate follow-up letter.

But hiring for school is exceedingly slow, and we're early still in the season. Of course, so many districts are still layng people off, so it IS horrible all around.


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## MujerMamaMismo

Wise women - I really need some urgent wisdom...help me navigate this situation please...

My friend is 25 weeks pregnant and was diagnosed with complete previa at 19 weeks. She has been hospitalised with bleeds twice since then and has checked herself out AMA both times. The second time was today. She is a teacher and very attached to her class of 5 & 6 year olds and despite being told not to go back to work, she is insisting on it. I don't know what to do or say - or if it is even my place to do or say anything.

This is a much wanted baby but since she's actually been pregnant, my friend has been so consumed by fear of something happening that she's been close to denial about even being pregnant. She hasn't read a single pregnancy book, nor anything about previa. At one point they thought the baby may have had an intellectual disability and while they were waiting for conclusive results (for 3 weeks) she checked out of the pregnancy entirely and really did deny she was pregnant. The baby has been cleared for any disability.

I'm the only person she's talking to about her pregnancy, other than her sister who lives on the other side of the country and is a doctor. I'm sure her sister must be very concerned too and I really wish I could talk to her but I know that would be over-stepping the mark. All her family live on the other side of the country. She's not even telling her partner the whole story and when I mentioned something about possible bedrest a couple of weeks ago, he was genuinely surprised.

Can I tell her she's being stupid to return to work? (Is she being stupid to return to work?) I just don't know what to do. After all, it's her body and her baby and my support of her *is* unconditional but it's very hard to sit by and watch her make ill informed decisions.
...
Does it make any difference if I tell you that this person is sebby's donor's partner? Obviously I have a vested interest in treading very carefully but my conscience is having a hard time letting this go...and a tragic outcome could be just as detrimental to our donor situation as me being a busy body, ykwim?


----------



## Maela

MMM - That's so difficult!







I wish I had advice for you, but I don't know what I'd do. Confrontation is so hard for me.







I guess I would probably tell her that I was worried about her, and...







I have no idea! It is a sticky situation. Is she depressed?

Sorry I'm absolutely no help.


----------



## Angelorum

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
You've probably tried everything and get sick of suggestions but i can't help myself.







Has he tried melatonin? It's available over the counter, isn't costly and has really helped my mum who has spurts of being awake for days and asleep for days.

We actually haven't tried melatonin yet. We only discovered that there was an actual disorder that describes his schedule a few months ago. The articles we read about it said that some people have luck with melatonin and full spectrum light therapy, but that it takes a lot of trial and error to get the dosage and timing right. And it's also just sort of a bandaid, it won't ever really cure you. I think dh kind of likes things the way the are, especially since finding out that he's not just crazy, or lazy, and that other people have the same 'problem'. When he's completely nocturnal, it's a lot easier for him to get work done, there are no phone calls, (almost) no errands he can run, the baby and I are asleep and so he's not tempted to drop work and play with us etc. Two weeks later when he's sleeping at night again, he gets to spend plenty of time socializing with us and other people, so he doesn't get really lonely either. There are benefits for me too. On the occasions that Westley decides 2 am is play time, or gets up a lot earlier than I want to, I can hand him off to dh if he's up, and I get to go back to bed. During the newborn days, dh often watched Westley sleep during the first part of the night, so I wouldn't be disturbed at every little sleeping sigh he made. Also, if we ever need to nightwean, we can plan to do it at a time dh will be awake at night, and then he won't be sacrificing sleep to help me out.

If things get bad for us financially and dh decides to get a 9-5 job (which would be pretty easy for him to do, given the shortage of people with his skills in this area) I'm sure he would try get his body on a 'normal' schedule with some melatonin and light therapy, but I don't really want to push him to it.


----------



## accountclosed3

MMM:

i would cautiously approach her like this:

"friend, you know i love you and support you no matter what you choose, but i do want to let you know that i am concerned. if you are open to discussing my concerns--which i only offer in love--then i will openly speak of them with you. if you are not, then that is ok too. i'll shut up and keep on loving you and supporting you in the ways that you need. just be sure to tell me how you want me to help out."

i was in a similar situation with a friend. i simply asked her if she was willing to hear me out, and if not, that was cool and she could direct the whole process. it really made her feel safe and secure.

first, she said that she didn't want to hear it, and then she started researching on her own and asking my thoughts on given topics. then she started asking me about what my specific concerns were, and i told her that we'd already discussed most of them. and she then pressed me for "what do you think i might be missing? i really want to be ok!" and i said "well, if it were me, i might check out Z, Y, and Z materials." and then we would sit on facebook (lol) and read articles in midwifery today and chat about them, and i would always go back to "and waht do you think?" and she would ay "i think this or that" and i would then go "this is more plausible than that, imo" and she would research this more than that, and so on.

it really worked, and it wasn't manipulative in any way. i was able to let go of her needing my advice and opinion. if she wanted it, she could have it. and eventually, she was asking and we were in dialogue and it was great.

so that is how i approached something similar. perhaps it will help?


----------



## Maela

Trying not to be over dramatic here. I've been feeling kind of nauseous and fat the last week and half. I just sent dh to the store to buy a pg test so I could ease my mind. I'm 98% sure it's going to be negative, but I'm so scared because the last time I felt pg and sent dh to the store I was pg with Jaim. I'm really really really hoping this is a stomach bug that my body is trying to fight. It's just that lately I've been turned off by certain foods... Ugh..









Hopefully, I'll post back here in 15 minutes with a bfn. I don't want to be pg again. I'm just now starting to really enjoy the age that Jaim is at. The thing I'd be most upset about though would be not being able to give Jaim all the breastmilk he wants for at least a year.


----------



## Maela

negative! Whew!! must be a bug.


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Phew maela! So glad your response followed the initial post - I was feeling very nervous for you...

Thanks to others, particularly Zoebird for your insight on my most recent dilemma... Will update when not typing on my iPhone!


----------



## cking

Relieved! Glad it's *just* a bug. i seemed to have a bug this weekend too, yucky.

Looking fwd to your update MMM. I never got to weigh in, but totally meant to. can you tell how busy life with two makes us?


----------



## accountclosed3

i think that life just gets totally busy. i'm going bonkers with work. it's absolutely crazy how much work there is. LOL luckily, it's the queen's birthday weekend, so i can go in on monday and basically catch up on the work that i need to do.


----------



## PiePie

I don't know that much about previa except that it usually reverses when it's this early and that if it still exists at 37 weeks or whatever then a C is indicated. Oh and that it is more likely if the babe is conceived within 2-3 cycles of a m/c. I do know that a lot of the advice for bedrest is not evidence-based -- in that, it doesn't hurt, but there is no proof that it helps. Not sure if this applies in the previa context though. My one friend with previa worked through and had a healthy baby vaginally just last month.

Just got back from an awesome vacation with 5 other families whom I met through MDC. I am so tired, though -- must limit travel to more reasonable chunks than all the way to Santa Fe. DD was in heaven with so many other kids her age (and little babies) -- I think we are all going to go through withdrawal over the loss of the commune-style co-parenting.


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
Just got back from an awesome vacation with 5 other families whom I met through MDC. I am so tired, though -- must limit travel to more reasonable chunks than all the way to Santa Fe. DD was in heaven with so many other kids her age (and little babies) -- I think we are all going to go through withdrawal over the loss of the commune-style co-parenting.

I'm so jealous!! But glad you had fun!


----------



## ~Shanna~

I have so much to tell you all, but I don't know where to start, I've been gone so long.







Things are going really, REALLY well.

Everyone seems to be doing so well here: Pg if they want to be, and not if they don't









MMM, want to hear more details about your training!


----------



## accountclosed3

pretty much got caught up. yoga will be starting soon, which is awesome.







so psyched about it.

playgroup is going really well too. today there was a run in with alfie. he can be pretty aggressive around his mother, apparently (he was sweet and shy with the au pair there), and so he was acting out a fair bit toward hawk in particular. no big altercations really, but hawk did get his feelings hurt at one point, then was back to his normal self as the rhythm changed.

alfie's mom is a massage therapist and might start working with us. we also have two other new ones and a couple of acupuncturists interested in coming on board. i'm looking for pilates teachers now, to help one of the business owners expand a bit.

so, going well.


----------



## witchygrrl

That's so great, zoe!

Shanna, I'd love to hear more about what's going on.

MMM, you too!

Rhea is in daycare today-her second day. She was so sad when we left her, and so were we. DH is only working afternoons still, and I haven't started teaching, so it's just _weird_ without her, but we need to acclimate her to 4 days a week, when we are both working this summer.

Also, Tuesday, DH had yet another interview with another school--the third. It always seems like the 3rd school is the one that hires him, so I hope that holds true. We know they've already called his summer camp boss to talk about him, and they're not done with the first round of interviews! She seemed to think that they really really wanted him, so it could be! It'd be a great commute, only 15 minutes, and he'd be teaching ceramics and sculpture, which he loves. So


----------



## PiePie

please pray for my hyperemesis to pass. i am 15 weeks and this has been going on too long.


----------



## Maela

I'm glad to hear everyone's doing so well!

Jaim is officially walking. Now he's letting go of things to start walking towards other things. Which is great, but he'll do it when I leave the room for a second and then I come back into the room and he's standing in the middle of the room crying sometimes because he's scared himself!







He's learning how to fall safely.

Maev is fully in underwear. She's been in underwear at night for a week now. So far we've not had to change any sheets! She's been telling everyone how she's going to be 3 on July 17!

We're leaving next week to go to Atlanta, Georgia and then Brevard, North Carolina. We've never been there. We're going with Dh's family and meeting his SIL and her family (including her new baby!) there. For some rteason I've had an obsession with nc for a long time despite never being there before. So I'm excited. Not looking forward to the flight with the kids though...


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
please pray for my hyperemesis to pass. i am 15 weeks and this has been going on too long.

I hope it passes soon!! I know ms is not the same as hyperemesis, but I do know how it feels to be sick way into the pg. It's not fun.


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

*Maela!* - Wow, walking. He's 9 months, right? Watch out world! Sounds like a great trip you have planned. The kids might surprise you on the flight. Sebby always does great on the plane, much to our surprise and relief!

*Witchy -* Daycare huh? As you know, Sebby just started 1 day a week. In terms of acclimating him, I think 1 day a week makes it hard. But he's doing fine. He does cry when I leave but I watch through the window for a bit and it's never taken more than 1 minute for him to realise that there's so much fun stuff, just for him, to do! Rhea will get there. So will you! It's weird, 'cos you miss them so much, but that child-free time is so precious too. Make the most of it while you're not working!








*
zoebird* - Sounds like NZ is a resounding success for you. How's DH going with his film-y stuff? Any leaps forward?

*PiePie* - Channeling my everything into love and wishes for an end to the hyperemisis...and an uneventful rest of pregnancy.
*
Shanna* - Lovely to see you here...don't tease us, tell us more!

Things are good here still. Sebby is sick, on a hunger strike (a week without a meal!) and sleeping very little. I am thus super tired and a little bit worn down but still so energised by all that is happening for me and feel like my reserves are really plentiful.

I wonder if birth and baby work is always going to feel so amazing to me or if it's just because it's new and exciting?


----------



## TwilightJoy

Also looking forward to a long Shanna book.









Wishing you the best, PiePie. Sorry about feeling badly.


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
*Maela!* - Wow, walking. He's 9 months, right? Watch out world! Sounds like a great trip you have planned. The kids might surprise you on the flight. Sebby always does great on the plane, much to our surprise and relief!

He's 8 months. Yes, I hope they both surprise us! Maev flew at 5 months and 11 months, and she did great. But Jaim's more of a squirmer and he's at that age where he just wants to walk and crawl and walk some more, yk?


----------



## witchygrrl

I can't believe Jaim's walking! That's great! And good luck with the plane trip--I think I'll be doing that with Rhea later on this year. I'm not exactly looking forward to it, but I'm not the biggest fan of flying.

And I forgot to say that I'm definitely prayng for PiePie's hyperemesis. I had a friend who suffred from it, and it was not fun. I hope it passes quickly into the night!


----------



## PiePie

my parents are here while dh is away on business and so far the visit has been mixed. they are driving me up a wall and are very high maintenance, can't do anything without a million interrupting questions. i find myself telling my mother that i mom that i need to take care of dd and i can't take care of her too and she needs to be more independent.







plus their parenting style is really different -- my dad uses a lot of nos over stuff that i would just let go (because nobody is getting hurt) and my mother is obsessed with pushing dd toward toilet training and demanding affection from her (dd is more affectionate with my dad). so plenty of tension but also a chance to do a little around the house and take a nap.


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## accountclosed3

MMM:

Actually, so nice that you ask! R met an Indian filmmaker who wants an American writer to write a film for him. That film will be translated to hindi and made in india. He is interested in hiring R for at least three projects of his! So, starting next week, he has his first paid screenwriting job!

So, we are psyched about that. Also, psyched about going to the film shoot in *india*. a part of the budget is set aside for travel to there (and we would be housed, but not paid to be on set because it isn't a huge budget), so we can tour india (with some of his family members).

_flights with kids_

i used organic lollipops in case hawk didn't nurse (he did), on the suggestion of a friend who travelled from NZ to FL with her 5 yr old and 2 yr old (both weaned), and then also with those little dried veggies you can get at TJ's. she put them into plastic containers, and her son played with it the whole time (the younger one), while the older one wanted to be read to, so she got a new book for him (his choice) and ended up reading it most of the way there.

i found that hawk was an easy flyer (at 8 months too--that's when we came back from NZ). he slept the whole flight between the US and NZ and back again (and did when we came in Feb), and slept part of the flight between PA and CA. i did plan the flights aorund his nap/sleeping times to facilitate.

i also had one of those wire-bead toys--you know the ones? i had a small one without a base. hawk loves those things. if he got restless, we did that.

also, potty is a good idea. if he was awake, we pottied him a fair bit, which got him out of the seat and doing something. filled his time.

You'll be ok, really.


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## Maela

ZB, thanks. I'll try some of that. I'm sure (okay, I know as a parent that I should never say that







) that he'll sleep through at least some of the flight. And it is only 5 hours. Nothing compared to going to NZ! He's going to have cheerios for the first time on the plane.







Hopefully, he likes them!

He's suddenly become interested in food. Really interested! Which kind of scares me because he's never been that into bfing (or eating anything). I'm just worried because he needs to gain weight (according to the dr), but I also want breastmilk to still be a huge part of his diet until he's at least a year. So I'm trying to be really careful while still making sure he eats/nurses enough.


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## accountclosed3

hawk first got interested in food around 8 mo too. he's always been a huge nursing fiend, so i never worried about that. i would just let him eat to his interest--hawk mostly gummed things down and handed htem back when he was done. he was happy.


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## cking

Ok, I thought I was keeping up, but it turns out I wasn't, and now I feel terribly behind!

MMM, I missed your last two long posts. So glad you are getting doula experience - it sounds amazing. Thanks for the compliments on Nicholas. We just adore him. It's a weird feeling though - having a super chubby baby and a skinny toddler. Lol. I know she is doing just fine though.

PiePie, praying for you. I really hope it ends soon. And I hope your visit with your parents becomes more relaxing, though I know that might be asking a lot. I kinda feel the same when mom and older sister visit - they are more work than help, and leave the house dirtier than when they came! Otoh, DH's 86 year old grandmother visits, and leaves the kitchen cleaner than it's ever been.

I also wanted to tell you - DD just started randomly saying "Pie Pie" during play - usually instead of Bye bye. I have no idea where she got it from (it's not like I talk about usernames with her&#8230;.unless maybe she can read? Lol)

Wow, Maela, Jaim is walking!? Amazing. I know it's kind of a tough balance with starting solids - I felt similarly with DD. But I think it's very likely that he'll keep breastmilk as his primary source of nourishment for several more months. Also, awesome that Maev is in underwear!

ZB, so cool that Ryan got a screenwriting job. And wow! That you are going to get to go to India for shooting.

Shanna, so psyched to see your website on FB. Can't wait to hear/read more about it and follow along as things pick up. Also want to hear about the BFW training!

Witchy,







: for your DH's job. Did you hear anything yet? It sounds like it'd be great for him, I hope he gets it!

Short update on us:
I'm struggling a bit. DH's job has taken him on trips every other week since March, and these will continue for another year or so. I think it's been hard on him as well, and we are both a bit depressed right now. It hasn't been very easy for us to communicate. I'm thinking about trying to find some preschool program for DD for the fall, but it's also hard to fit that into a single-income budget. But I don't feel like I'm giving her the best experience at home*, and that she is ready for a little more socialization and time without me. Steph and MMM, I'm with you guys - I love the newborn stage, really the whole first year. Which is also a weird feeling when you also have a toddler - lol. But I feel like taking care of a newb is so much easier - most of the time. I'm trying to treasure every bit of it, since it seems even more clear the second time around that he really won't ever be this small again.

*Does anyone have recommendations for books on this - "preschool" learning at home? I think there are some Montessori books - any others? I think we need to add a little more structure to our day. Hard with a young babe, though.

This is random: a friend on another board shared this, so I just thought I'd pass it along to you guys (since I don't really want to post it on facebook!)
Pelvic Floor Party: Kegels are NOT invited.
I'm kind of excited about what she's saying. I think it's going to help me in the long run - I'm still working on recovering from both births. And Angelorum, I thought of you.


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## snozzberry

I haven't been posting, but I am reading to keep up with what's going on for everyone.









*Maela:* I can't believe Jaim is walking!!! So exciting. I loved when Abby started walking because she just got so much more independent and freed me up in a way I hadn't been since her days of sleeping every few hours.
*
MMM:* So glad you've hit a nice stride lately.







I bet it will always feel exciting to help bring a new life into the world!

*Christina:*







on the traveling DH. That sounds hard.









*Witchy:* Another







for DH's job!

*PiePie:* Thinking of you and hoping you start to feel better soon!

*Update from me:* We were gearing up to TTC this fall, and I was resigned to the first couple years being hard but really wanted Abby to have a sibling. DH and I were close to the same place, but he was more in the "resigned" category than I was.

...and then I decided I don't want a 2nd. At least not right now. I enjoy drinking with my friends, having some level of independence with only 1 child who can sometimes entertain herself, etc. I am being selfish, I know. But it feels right...for now.

So we will reevaluate next spring whether it feels right to TTC.

I am a little sad, but also incredibly relieved.


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## Maela

I'll try not to worry about solids vs breastmilk. We'll see what his dr says tomorrow at his appt. Last week his cardiologist said he was less than 5th percentile and she'd like to see it go up since he's above the 50th in height. Just this week I've started offering a solids "meal" twice a day, and he's been getting really into it, so maybe his weight will start to go up. I'm so sick of worrying about his weight.







He's a happy, healthy looking baby in my opinion.

*Cking*, I'm sorry about the traveling. That must be so tough!








for preschool learning: I don't have a book. But I did set up one of those big wall calendars in the playroom and we do it every day. Maev really likes it. Also she has a "preschool workbook" that she does a few pages in everyday. It's just a cheap book I bought at an educational store, but she loves it. She always asks to do it during Jaim's nap.

It's so weird to me that some of you can enjoy the newborn stage over toddlers! Maev is so much easier for me, even with her stubbornness and tantrums.







Maev and I went to see the Shrek movie today at the theater. It was so fun! She was so excited and cute. I loved spending that one-on-one time with her.









*Snozz*, I hear you on the walking. I do feel more free already! He's much happier too.


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## PiePie

OMG cking I did a huge post to you and was filling in links and I lost it!


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## Maela

had the dr appt today. He was 15lbs.5oz. (1st percentile) and 27.5in. (38th percentile - I was wrong he's not over 50%). But he did gain 3.5oz. in the last week, which is totally normal for his age. Dr said he looks great, his heart sounded great and he's obviously developing fine. Just wants me to give him more food. He did admit that Jaim's meds could be affecting his appetite. So we're just going to keep following Jaim's cues with solids, and try to get him to bf as much aspossible.


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## witchygrrl

yay for healthy babes! that's great news Maela


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## Maela

We're off! See you all in 10 days!


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## accountclosed3

i don't think it's at all selfish to assert that you are not ready to TTC. we got the pressure from others, and just got to the point where we said "we arent' going to think about this until hawk is 4 or 5." as soon as we said it, it felt right. we were off the hook and could relax.









business is going well. we start training reception folks next week. we'll have at least three days covered starting next week, so this means that in july, ryan can start some writing time and i might open things up for some classes/private lessons.

yoga starts in two weeks, so we ordered the props and have a guy helping us do the building (storage). i'm psyched about that, because i couldn't find anyone.

we have an in-home date afternoon starting in july. hawk will go to a friend's once a week "in trade" for her son coming here for a couple of hours each week. so, ryan and i will have more time to just connect where we aren't concerned about someone waking up. LOL

it is matariki and mid-winter here. we are going to a mid-winter party tomorrow, hosted by friends, and matariki (maori new year) begins the planting season. *so* i'm thinking of planting some indoor herbs and also getting going on the garden outdoors. i'm looking to do a medicinal cottage herb garden--roses, lavender, calendula, sage, german chamomile, peppermint (though i might grow that inside), a dwarf lemon and dwarf mandrin orange tree (in pots so that i can bring them in), goldenseal (if i can get some), and echinacea. i found a great source for rose bushes that have very vit c rich hips.

anyway, yeah, i'm just being a bit crazy here.







i get excited about planting.


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## MujerMamaMismo

Massive leadership spill here and Australia has its first female Prime Minister.

Historic times. Exciting for what it represents but not so much in terms of politics. Though traditionally from the left of the party, she's gotten much more pragmatic in recent years and it was actually with the backing of the right that she staged the coup. Such a dirty game. (And the ousted PM, from the right, was backed by the left.)


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## PiePie

I have a reprise of the hyperemesis the last couple of days. yesterday I thought it was just the heat (pregnancy making my body unable to cope with it) but I got it again today en route to work on an air-conditioned subway, so that is depressing.

have been having some behavioral issues with DD in the late afternoon/evening. and MAJOR bedtime battles. I had a mini breakdown on Sunday night over a particularly bad one. Last night I caught myself before I totally lost it and had DH take over. bought _sleepless in america_ because it's recommended on the sleep forum. not sure its prescriptions will be right for DD (given her relatively high need for stimulation/activity) or our family (given work schedules) but want more info and ideas. i feel like i need about 13 hours a night these days, which is clearly impossible given the demands of my job. my body is so bad at being pregnant.


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## Maela

Looks like I didn't miss much!

PiePie,














I'm sorry.

We had so much fun in NC!! If we had family and friends with us, I would move there in a second! Love the climate!!


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## Angelorum

cking- Thanks for that link, her advice really makes sense. Here's to both of our recoveries!

piepie- feel better soon! Your body is not bad at being pregnant, it's just dealing with a lot. I remember throwing up on my morning bus commute to school, I always felt so embarrassed.

Maela, I can't believe Jaim started walking at 8 mo! Westley took his first steps a few days after he turned 10 mo, and is a pro now. I love hearing his little feet padding around the house. How were the kids on the flight?

We just got back from seeing fireworks. It was fun, but Westley was up way too late, and he was so excited by the park and the fireworks and all he didn't nurse for a few hours and now I feel like I've got a plugged duct. I had him nurse a ton once we got back, but my left breast still is really tender!

Things are crazy here. After much thought I've decided to go back to school this year. I'll be part time and as long as it's not crazy I should be able to graduate in 2 years. I would have graduated this past spring had I not gotten pregnant a year earlier than planned. We moved out here for school and now we're really feeling like it's time to finish up so we can move back to our home state and get going on some siblings for Westley. Anyway, to make it feasible to go to school we are going to have to move next month. I've been so consumed with the apartment search, I haven't even thought about the packing and the truck rental and finding childcare once we're there. Oy. I really hate moving, but I am really looking forward to the classes I am about to take. I worry about Westley being away from me more often, but I'll only be in class about 7 hours a week, and I know the baby free time will recharge me in a lot of ways.


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## witchygrrl

Angelorum, good luck with school! And happy early birthday to your Westley!

Sure has been quiet around here. I hope all is well with you lovely ladies.

I start teaching again in less than a week. EEEEK!!!And since DH ddn't end up with his dream job (long drawn out story that's been told on FB), we're working on plans B and C. He'll probably sub if we don't find anything, but at least subbing will get him into some school districts.


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## PiePie

*Angelorum*, Congratulations on your return to school!! I don't envy you the moving (we moved after DD was born, and it sucked), but it sounds like you know what you have to do to make everything work. The search for childcare was exceedingly stressful, but eventually everything fell into place in the nick of time. My adamant advice is to plan for contingencies.

I have had a rough time. Big fight with DH on Saturday, major morning sickness on Sunday, when a very serious heat wave started her. Better Monday, but when I had to go back to work today I was, of course, very sick again. Like scary sick. I am now my midwife's second longest running case of morning sickness ever, and she has been catching babies since 1968! However, I heard from a childhood friend on FB that she she had to have all food and liquid delivered through IV for the entirety of 2 pregnancies, so I know it could be worse. Definitely feel like it's affecting my parenting. I just can't take the heat, but she needs physical exercise. I think all 2 yos do, but she really does, given her exceedingly high energy levels. I never do TV or videos but I resorted to it twice on Sunday (30 minutes each time). BTW, what is Big Bird, a resident of brownstone Brooklyn, doing shopping at a Super Wal-Mart? There are no Wal-Marts in any of the 5 boroughs of NYC, and I don't think there are any very close to the City either.


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## Maela

I just lost my post *twice*!























I don't even want to try again.
















s to Witchy and Piepie. Maev started watching tv when I was pg. Go easy on yourself - it'll get easier again someday.

dh had his vasectomy today.


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## Maela

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...6#post15599506

If you have any input I could really use some advice. Horrible night with Dd.







I don't know what to do anymore.


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## PiePie

would love to discuss article linked to on FB from nymag http://nymag.com/news/features/67024/

DH asked me to read it because it connects to a lot of the feelings he has been having (and I haven't) that have been creating issues in our relationship. I would say that very little of it resonated with me: I am definitely happier day-to-day as well as more joyful now that I have DD. I have more fun with DD than I would doing most "adult" things. Thus when DH asks for adult time, my honest question is WHY? Which does not mean that at any given time I don't have a running list of movies and plays I want to see, and if a babysitter were magically there (without my having to arrange it) I might do it, but then I would miss time with DD, which would make me not only guilty but sad.

I agree that kids create a lot of stress (this morning I forgot her lunch and had to turn back -- if it were just me I would have just bought lunch and carried on, YK?) and seem to shrink your life to the size of a teacup in some senses -- e.g., my total inability to relate to most of my childless colleagues and friends. If I am really and truly honest with myself I have to question whether I respect them insofar as their life is career career career. Now I was very career-focused for a long time, but I also always knew there was more to life, just not at that chapter. I also find that I am less supportive of my friends once they reach a certain point in their career -- it's like they have the brass ring (tenure, for most of them) but they still are obsessed with the next big thing, which to me starts to seem like a very little thing. It's like my friend J., a (single, childess) lawyer, who is very devastated that she was passed over for a promotion, which would have meant more $. Now she already makes $800K, so I find it hard to believe that more $ is that meaningful.

but then they also enlarge it -- WE would never have connected but for having our children. I also definitely agree with the more chores part. The part that resonated with me the most was the post on urbanbaby (which I avoid almost always -- it is so competitive I immediately know I have done everything wrong, plus it totally excludes both neighborhoods we have lived in with DD as too poor) from the FT WOHM who feels like she has become less interesting as a conversationalist because she is just too tired. I definitely know that this is a huge problem in my relationship with DH -- he wants more game nights, more debate about policy or law or history -- I want to chill. Some of this is an energy mismatch -- he is really high energy and while I am higher energy that the vast majority of people I have ever met I can't keep up with him. (Small wonder we created a DD, huh?) But the big problem, noted in the article, is that so much of my energy goes into DD and I admit it leaves very little left for him. I know this is the stereotype of SAHMs -- that all they can talk about it coupons and soccer -- but I feel like it's me as well. Not that I am not thinking big thoughts, but they are big thoughts about educational philosophies or disciplinary strategies or child development, not high politics. Not that I don't make an effort to follow, and I still think I do more than most Americans, but definitely not at the level of my husband, and not at the level I was at when I met him. There just aren't enough hours in the day.

It also leaves little left for my career and I have been feeling badly about that of late. I am working with people at a firm who make it very clear that they look down on me because I don't go the extra mile, which in their mind is the bare minimum, so they call me at the office at 7:30 at night or on a Sunday and are like, why aren't you there? I get that attitude -- I lived it for years -- and I even get the pecking order wherein people who aren't living that life are lesser litigators. But it totally pushes my buttons, because deep down I know it's not just the hours that are different but I am just not as on top of my game as they are and as I once was.

So I want to hear from you -- maybe it would help me be less judgmental of my DH for his ambivalence. The line he loved was that Kids are a tremendous source of joy, but they turn every other source of joy to sh!t.


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## cking

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
would love to discuss article linked to on FB from nymag http://nymag.com/news/features/67024/

The line he loved was that Kids are a tremendous source of joy, but they turn every other source of joy to sh!t.

going to print this to read during our long drive tomorrow.
So true, what your dh said. Tried to enlist DDs help while packing for vacation today, and it just set me back several hours.







so the packing all needs to be done during sleeping hours...as in, right now.


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## Maela

PiePie, I'm reading that article (slowly and with interruptions) right now. Interesting. Sad. But I do kind of agree. I do love mothering, but I also feel like I'm not that good at it. Especially lately. I don't have enough patience and my temper lately has been awful. It's just so. much. work. right now. I could be working from sun up to sun down (of course bfing during the night too) and never take a break and still have stuff that doesn't get done. I'm just really feeling like I need a break right now. I've been thinking a lot about how much time dh and I got to spend together and how we could just get up and decide to see a movie or go out to the pub, etc. before we had kids. Of course I'm so glad I had kids! Not only because they're such amazing little people, but also because I feel like I've really changed for the better as a person. So I am so happy that I became a parent, but I'm also really excited for a few years from now when the kids are older and I have a _little_ bit more time for myself.







While still trying to remember to enjoy every cute thing Maev says and every hug Jaim gives me. (it's so cute - he says "aahhh!" while he hugs and gives those open-mouthed kisses)









I thought it was interesting how with each successive generation parents seemed to enjoy parenting less and less. Are we just lazy/selfish? Is it the way our society/communities are set up (the whole isolation thing)? I feel like it might be a little bit of both. Also there seem to be "higher standards" for parents these days I think. As in the kids have to be in more extracurricular activities, have more toys, bigger houses, better schools, etc.


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## PiePie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maela* 

I thought it was interesting how with each successive generation parents seemed to enjoy parenting less and less. Are we just lazy/selfish? Is it the way our society/communities are set up (the whole isolation thing)? I feel like it might be a little bit of both. Also there seem to be "higher standards" for parents these days I think. As in the kids have to be in more extracurricular activities, have more toys, bigger houses, better schools, etc.

I think it's partially that there's a choice, partially that people are having kids later in life so they know what they are missing, partially that women have more opportunities so they know that they are missing out on things (I can feel the hit to my career; my mom SAHM but before she had me she had what she thought of as a job, not a career), partially that it's okay to say this stuff now whereas once upon a time women were just supposed to love mothering or accept it as their lot in life (I cannot imagine my mom being as open with her IRL mom friends (who were her friends because they happened to be neighbors, not because they necessarily had the same values) about her inner life as we are here -- and my grandmothers? never complaining was seen as their highest virtue!), and partially that the standards are higher now. For example, where I grew up a lot of kids took violin lessons starting at age 2; we were one of the pilot communities for Suzuki in the US. Well I wanted to get DD into Suzuki for next year; so far I called 21 schs and have been told 1. the application process for fall ended in March or April (!!!!) or 2. they don't take 3 yos. I am hooking up with potential instructors through list-servs, but I can't shake the feeling that I missed the boat on the applications. Which never would have been an issue in my mom's world -- just unthinkable. Of course part of it is that DD has so many more opportunities because we are in a major metropolitan area -- there is the premiere American Suzuki training school here (for training teachers), so there is something to miss out on, whereas I don't think my mom thought she was missing out on anything to have me take lessons from the lady down the street, YK? Which is probably what DD will do and it will probably be fine.







Similarly, she is being recruited to be on a traveling competitive gymnastics team; I am going to say no because it is too many hours, too much work for me schlepping her places, and too expensive -- but honestly I don't think that when/where I was growing up there were even 3 yo slots on teams and such. So my mom didn't have the nagging sense that she was thwarting the next Nadia Comenichi.


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## Maela

good points PiePie. And a competitive traveling gymnastics team?! For a three year old? Wow.


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## ~Shanna~

I've missed you sisters









Jess has been feeding my soul with the articles she linked to (and I shamelessly poached). DH and I are in casual discussions about whether we want to have another baby in a couple of years. I've been surprised to see how deep my ambivalence goes on parenthood - I've felt a bit gaslighted by it, living in a culture that on its surface seems to revere motherhood nearly to the point of suspicion. I'm a little relieved to see these discussions taking place. At my mother's workshop last week, I asked if I was crazy for hearing about the research on happiness and it's dismal description of parenthood and responding so automatically by nodding in agreement. 3+ years into my parenthood, and i still haven't figured out how to move past merely reacting to requests. To hear parents describe "parenting" in such dismal terms seems to suggest heartlessness, as if they hate watching a new soul learn, explore and fall in love. In reality, I think it's completely rational to be a bit exhausted by requests for water, demands about where the missing beloved toy #4,483 is, and the constant cycle of pick-me-up-so-I can-climb-up-your-body-to-show-I-want-to-be-put-back-down. This is the face of parenting for me. But. Sprinkled liberally with moments of absolute transcendance. I'm still giddy, remembering Fenton's first experience with picking oregano out of the garden and plopping it right on his pasta. Two angry hours spent rocking, bouncing and singing to an exhausted baby who FINALLY fell asleep....only to realize 30 minutes into my movie that I MISSED him and wished he'd wake up so I could hold him. The author who described it as joy instead of fun had it absolutely spot on for me. But sometimes I miss having fun myself.

My movie: I haven't finished it yet, but I'm underwhelmed by Away We Go. It hurts me to see Jim Halpert looking SO unattractive







. But it's seriously making me angry. I wish the movie was less interested in caricatures of parenting style.

We're doing awesome on this end, especially considering we are in a period of overlap where my work had to start before DHs full-time work ended. He leaves his position at the church in August, and I've gotten 2-3 clients with my virtual assistant work. The biggest client I had to start work with a few weeks ago, so it's been challenging to carve out time to get work done in the few hours where I have childcare. Even with this being in such limbo for the next month, I still feel more balance than I've ever had, and DH is really embracing a more sustainable approach to parenting, work, everything. The finances are shaking out to be an improvement....I'm still awestruck that this has worked out the way it has, and that it managed to present so much opportunity for growing for everyone.

A few weeks before I left for my Birthing From Within training in Tennessee with my MIL, Reece started having trouble being comforted by anyone but me. It continues, and it has been, by far, the most stressful part of our family's transitions. It's stressful for everyone involved: me, Reece, and anyone who tries to help me. I know it's likely to be such a short season, but it's frustrating when it's for the purpose of sharing work so equitably and getting everyone's needs met. The training in Tennesse was amazing, peppered with stress at every break and adjornment as I would race back to my cabin to find a screaming Reece. For days after, he would panic if I left even to go to the bathroom. I've tried everything I can think of to help him, but I've had to just be with him in his suffering, explain what is happening and that he's always with people who love him and want to help him. I've been surprised that it doesn't seem to help when Fenton is there too. They're so fond of each other - my fears of sibling rivalry were quickly replaced by the realization that they are already banding together against us ☺ They love to laugh together.

I'm still laying the groundwork for CBE classes and self-care workshops. My first classes start in September, and I've recently had the brainstorm to set up a booth at the local Mom2Mom sales to promote. I feel like there is never any end to the work between promoting, working on my certification and developing the curriculum. So far I really love it.


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## Angelorum

Interesting article PiePie. I had heard something about the research on kids/happiness before. The work of parenting isn't all that fun for me (is it for anyone?), but there are so many other things about having a child that are. Since reading the article I have taken note of how many times I've laughed at ds's goofiness or swooned over his cuteness. I think I can say that I am not more happy than I was before I had him, but I don't think I'm less happy either. And I've been feeling more in partnership with dh lately too. Now that we have ds, we both have to work together to realize our individual goals, ie dh is going to have to sacrifice to help out with childcare and things around the house so I can go to school (not to mention the moving!), and I am going to have to work as hard as I can to give dh the time and space to get his current work projects finished in good time so we can afford to lose my income and move etc. There was some of this before ds of course, but not as much, and it's just worked out well lately.

We applied for the most perfect condo on friday. We weren't the only ones to apply however and we haven't heard back yet on the decision. I am really crossing my fingers that we'll get it and the hunt for a new place can be over. All the trips to scout out possibilities have really taken a toll on Westley's sleep; I can never manage to make the trip out, do the looking, and come back without missing or seriously delaying one of his naps or bedtime. Also, he doesn't always nurse well while we're out and about, and that tender breast I mentioned in my last post turned into full blown mastitis not an hour later. Thankfully, it was short lived and I was back to normal in 24 hours, but I am not looking to repeat that experience ever again!


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 
We applied for the most perfect condo on friday. We weren't the only ones to apply however and we haven't heard back yet on the decision. I am really crossing my fingers that we'll get it and the hunt for a new place can be over. All the trips to scout out possibilities have really taken a toll on Westley's sleep; I can never manage to make the trip out, do the looking, and come back without missing or seriously delaying one of his naps or bedtime. Also, he doesn't always nurse well while we're out and about, and that tender breast I mentioned in my last post turned into full blown mastitis not an hour later. Thankfully, it was short lived and I was back to normal in 24 hours, but I am not looking to repeat that experience ever again!

I hope you get the condo!

Jaim has been nursing more lately (yay!), but just a little while ago I noticed that even right after nursing him on my left side, I have a lump on the top of my breast about an inch from my nipple. I guess it's a clogged duct? It does kind of feel like when I'm a little engorged. I tried pumping and it didn't help. I tried waking him to nurse again, but he didn't want to. So now I'm a little worried...


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## accountclosed3

i guess i'm the odd one out on the article.

while ryan and i had a tough go at first, largely due to our dynamic changing, it has improved immensely before and particularly since our move.

i find that i love parenting, and i find it very rewarding pretty much all the time. ryan and i working half days has been amazing for us as a family--hawk gets mom time, dad time, and family time in the evenings before bed. ryan and i get time together after bed time, and now that we have some reception people coming on board, ryan gets time for just his work.

so, we are in this space where we are each doing work that we love, each parenting and having family and alone time, and it really feels like a great rhythm.

sure, there are always things that i can improve, but the rhythm of my life is really good and we are happy with it. i don't know if that means i'll have 10 more kids or something, or even one more, or even add to my work load, but honestly, it is going very well so far, and we are happy.

i don't find parenting to be not-fun, but the things that were fun for us in the past have changed. for example, we don't spend a lot of time discussing gender issues in teh modern context, but rather we do spend a fair bit of time talking about the need and nature of celebrations and how to create and incorporate them into our family life.

but the main thing is that we are relating, and relating on topics of interest to us. and we are happy.

i am really tired of articles portraying motherhood in the way that the article does, because i have found that i feel more together, more myself, more fulfilled, happier, etc--evne though i'm working very hard in so many ways--since becoming a mom and also since really living the dream of the holistic health center.

but, perhaps it is an accurate portrayal if most women feel that way.

and the idea of violin lessons and competitive gymnastics for someone slightly older than hawk seems absolutely bonkers to me. i'm not coming down on parenting choices; you gotta do what you want to do for and with your child, and no doubt she loves it. hawk is a bit of a whiz at those drums (and his ukulele). but still, i can't imagine it. but it's just a different philosophy/approach on the age, i guess.


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
i have found that i feel more together, more myself, more fulfilled, happier, etc--evne though i'm working very hard in so many ways-

This I agree with - except the happier part. But I also can't say I'm _less_ happier than I was before I had kids, because back then I could not comprehend how much free time I had that I wouldn't have once I had kids. And I wanted them SO badly! so I'm probably just as happy as before kids, only in different ways.

I'm slowly working through these temper/anger issues that I mentioned a few posts ago. The last few days have been much much better. I think I just needed to grow up.







I also think I need to somehow carve out a little more time for myself to do the things I'm interested in (right now learning more about gardening/raising food).

Oh, and that clogged duct is cleared I think.


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## MujerMamaMismo

*zoebird*, I feel like what you've described (in yourself) is a mama who has achieved amazing and awesome balance - and thus is happy not just in her parent self but her whole self. I've been feeling the same way for a while now. I think everyone's balance threshold is different and I also wonder if that balance is achievable when you have an infant who is so very dependent on Mama and her boobs?

I've spent a lot of time reflecting on that NY mag article and honestly, I don't relate. I thought I did, but I feel like I've worked hard to bypass all that ridiculous expectation stuff and for the most part, I've done a good job. I think that choosing to parent in the way I have brackets me away from a lot of others expectations of my parenting - people expect me to do things a bit differently and love me nonetheless (or don't, and those ppl don't matter anyway). I think also that all that expectation stuff if much more pronounced in the US (and waaaayyy more so in NYC) than here so it's easier for me to ignore what is out there.

In terms of happiness - that transcendent joy she speaks of is amazing, and it certainly can pull you through some of the tough bits, but a Mama like me, who is happy in her whole life, has reserves she can pull from other bits of her life too and without them, finding fun can be hard and the drudgery probably would dominate. And I do think there's a heap of fun to be had but it's not about having great nights out and extravagant weekends away - it's about enjoying your children's fun.

So - I definitely feel like the second article resonated far more with me... have you all read that one, too?

And in other news - we are trying NAET to clear Sebby's food sensitivities - it's pretty woo-woo and so far we've only done egg but it seems to have worked. We have our second appt this afternoon. We also had an a-ha moment in terms of the onset of these sensitivities and the demise of Sebby's sleep...we thought it was the un-rest of moving house but actually, it's environmental...his sleep stopped when we moved onto a main road!!! nice.


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## Angelorum

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
I've spent a lot of time reflecting on that NY mag article and honestly, I don't relate. I thought I did, but I feel like I've worked hard to bypass all that ridiculous expectation stuff and for the most part, I've done a good job. I think that choosing to parent in the way I have brackets me away from a lot of others expectations of my parenting - people expect me to do things a bit differently and love me nonetheless (or don't, and those ppl don't matter anyway). I think also that all that expectation stuff if much more pronounced in the US (and waaaayyy more so in NYC) than here so it's easier for me to ignore what is out there.

So - I definitely feel like the second article resonated far more with me... have you all read that one, too?










on the expectations bit. Maybe I'll start feeling more external pressure once we're really in the toddler stage, but for now I feel pretty confidant that Westley is getting his needs met, and I have no guilt over not providing x trendy enrichment experience. We read books, go to the library and the park, play and explore things, and I think he's turning into a pretty awesome little guy









I hadn't read that second article, thanks for posting it, I like what she's saying.

Maela- glad the clogged duct is gone, I was trying to post the things that have helped me in the past right after your last post, and my internet cut out 

We got a call from the condo owners today, they were asking some basic rental questions and said they are looking at 3 families for the place and will be calling all the references in the next few days. I really really really REALLY hope we get this place and can move on to the next phase of packing and moving. We have great rental history and good credit, but I'm always worried that the fact that dh is self employed is going to put people off. He's already signed contracts that ensure a steady stream of income for the next year, but I just worry that next to other more conventional people with conventional 9-5 jobs we are going to be looked over.


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## Angelorum

Condo owners called again today, they say it's now down to us and one other family. They are deciding tonight.



































:fing ersx


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## Angelorum

WE GOT IT!!!!













































alright I'll stop posting now


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 
WE GOT IT!!!!













































alright I'll stop posting now









That's great!!!









Congrats!


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## accountclosed3

on the second article, it's more a criticism of the other article, than an expression of my experience raising hawk.

i have fun. the kid is fun. sometimes i am tired, or bored of the same story over and over ("read the george! Read The George! READ THE GEORGE! hot ballon!"), but even then, it's just damn funny. i enjoy our time together.

sure, there are times when i am tired, stressed, and frustrated. but that's just life. i had that in my life before i had hawk--so he's not the origin of it.

i don't know. i'm just happy. what can i say? LOL

-----

congrats on the condo.

good luck with NAET! i hope it works for the gut issues!


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## ~Shanna~

Fly by but what Zoe said here struck me: Before having children, mostof my frustrations were numb: Bored, so you go out to dinner. Unfulfilled by career, so you wait it out until you can be a SAHM and re-set, etc. My frustrations now as a parent are more passionate instead of numb. For some reason that feels harder, but Zoe points out that maybe it more alive? Going to ahve to think about this more.....


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
Fly by but what Zoe said here struck me: Before having children, mostof my frustrations were numb: Bored, so you go out to dinner. Unfulfilled by career, so you wait it out until you can be a SAHM and re-set, etc. My frustrations now as a parent are more passionate instead of numb. For some reason that feels harder, but Zoe points out that maybe it more alive? Going to ahve to think about this more.....

like this and agree









dh is camping with his dad for three nights. so far things are still going great


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## MujerMamaMismo

Guess who's laying on her bed with her legs in the air??!!!!

EEEEK!!!!


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
Guess who's laying on her bed with her legs in the air??!!!!

EEEEK!!!!









Good luck!!









Hopefully you're talking about what I think you're talking about!


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## taylor123

Hi everybody, I am a new member just joined the community
to share my knowledge with others.


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## witchygrrl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
Guess who's laying on her bed with her legs in the air??!!!!

EEEEK!!!!

Woah! Exciting and scary! Good luck!!!!!!


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## Angelorum

MMM-









Things are coming along with the move. We've started the purging/organizing and packing. It's nice to be able to take the time to do it this time around. Last time we moved, we only found out we were going to have to leave a few days before my due date (thank you landlord







) and we did the actual move when Westley was 2 weeks old. Thankfully we had a ton of help, because I was pretty much useless, but nothing got sorted and purged before we left. I'm hoping this move will be less traumatic.

I am







over a letter we got yesterday though. We've been in the process of applying for an individual catastrophic health insurance plan for months now. We had to get physicals and everything, and we received an email a few days ago that they were mailing an offer of insurance to us. It got here yesterday. They want to hike my premium up 46% because I complained of mild stress incontinence at the physical. It's just the dumbest thing I've ever heard, not to mention that the physical was months ago, and I haven't had any episodes of stress incontinence since April now. So now there's going to be more paperwork and phone calls and delay instead of having this all over with. What do they think is going to cost them extra by taking on someone with stress incontinence?


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## accountclosed3

the laser surgery or medication to manage it as you age? IDK. weirdos, those insurance companies.


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## witchygrrl

Freaking absurd, Angelorum. I hope the process goes smoothly.


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## MujerMamaMismo

For all the faults and flaws and shortcomings of our public health system, I'm freaking thrilled that we have it. No one cares if I have stress incontinence. And, there's currently a hospital run, midwife managed homebirth trial happening in our area which means that I may even get a homebirth without having to pay a cent! (Note, this is in the same climate that is trying, and close to succeeding in killing independent midwifery and homebirth so it's not all daisies and roses!)

*Angelorum*, that situation is appalling and I hope you can fix it. I hope the packing is going well too!

TTC #2 is scary for so many reasons but essentially I decided that I wanted to do it now to get it out of the way. Such a weird feeling to be as excited as I am ambivalent. I'm really hoping that I can avoid some of the craziness and wobbly mental health that went with TTC Sebby. I also hope it takes a lot less time!


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## MujerMamaMismo

Oh, and my other news is that a midwife friend and I are going to start a post natal and early parenting support business. It's gonna be awesome. And much more manageable with a small nursling than attending 40hour births! We just need a great business name. Suggestions welcome!


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
Oh, and my other news is that a midwife friend and I are going to start a post natal and early parenting support business. It's gonna be awesome. And much more manageable with a small nursling than attending 40hour births! We just need a great business name. Suggestions welcome!

oooh, I think I would like that! No suggestions for a name, but I'll try to come up with some ideas.


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## Angelorum

The plan we were applying for doesn't even cover drugs, so they can't claim they're hiking the rate to account for that. Surgery maybe, but I'd avoid surgery as much as possible. And MMM that homebirth killing thing is also appalling, I'm really hoping it gets resolved. But







on your possible homebirth.

Yesterday was Westley's first birthday







. My sister and her four kids were in town, so they all went to the pool with us in the afternoon and then we had dinner and cake at my house. The pool closed after a couple hours due to lightning, but I would have wanted to leave soon anyway for Westley's nap, and they gave us free passes to come back another day for the early closure. Westley had great fun playing with his cousins, and he LOVED the coconut flour cake I made! His poops have been all chocolate this morning







Now I just have to tackle the giant mound of dishes we dirtied last night


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## Maela

Happy Birthday Westley!!


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## accountclosed3

wait, westly is already 1? where have i been? happy birth(ing) day (belated).

business is going well here. 3 crankies going, and a whole bunch of new people coming in.


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## Angelorum

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
wait, westly is already 1? where have i been? happy birth(ing) day (belated).

business is going well here. 3 crankies going, and a whole bunch of new people coming in.


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## witchygrrl

Hapy belated birthday to Westley!


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## Sihaya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
Guess who's laying on her bed with her legs in the air??!!!!











Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
I'm really hoping that I can avoid some of the craziness and wobbly mental health that went with TTC Sebby. I also hope it takes a lot less time!

I'm really hoping these things for you, too, dear!







that the first time works and we're in a DDC together









Happy belated Birthday, Westley!









As for me, having a bit of a breakdown today.







I thought that I would just lose it if we didn't get pg this cycle (our third ttc since my last m/c), but I didn't realize I would also lose it if we _did_ get pg.


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## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
We just need a great business name. Suggestions welcome!

Encircle. Or Encircle (something). Can't you just picture a kick-a$$ logo?









So excited for you! I'm supposed to be working, so I have to go. I miss you ladies


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## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sihaya* 
As for me, having a bit of a breakdown today.







I thought that I would just lose it if we didn't get pg this cycle (our third ttc since my last m/c), but I didn't realize I would also lose it if we _did_ get pg.









Congratulations Sihaya!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
Congratulations Sihaya!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Angelorum

Congratulations Sihaya! Stick baby, stick!


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## witchygrrl

Congrats Sihaya!!!!!


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## MujerMamaMismo

*Steph!* Yay yay.








I really hope I'm in your DDC too - although it would mean I'm having an Aries and I'm not sure how much room there is in our family for another one of me!

I'm doing ok at not sending myself crazy. In fact, I tried to stalk ttc threads and I just couldn't relate, or couldn't be bothered or something? Nonetheless, I am having a million imaginary symptoms I swear I haven't invited!

Encircle is good *Shanna* - DP (A graphic designer) could do great things with a logo like that but I want the word Mama in the title. At the moment we're leaning towards Mama Matters' - double entendre intended.

Happy Birthday Westley....









and Rhea (when is her b'day - soon, right?)


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## MujerMamaMismo

Where's *PiePie*? And how is she feeling? Other than having no dishwasher and no wifi (which I gleaned from fb) ?


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## witchygrrl

Rhea's birthday is today. I can't believe she's two. She just gets more amazing by the day!

Love to all.


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchygrrl* 
Rhea's birthday is today. I can't believe she's two. She just gets more amazing by the day!

Love to all.

Happy Birthday Rhea!!







They're all getting so old!


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## PiePie

Hi everyone. *Mujerista*, thanks for missing me. My home computer is on the fritz and work was one crisis after another last week. I do have a ton of work to do in the next week and a half. It's kind of scary because I don't know what will give to do it. I can't see myself pulling an all-nighter as in the old days, and this would take multiple all-nighters.

Potty learning is going pretty well with DD and I am about to go up against her teacher hard-core to get her in underpants at sch. When she wears underpants she is 100% but she asks what she is wearing and if it's a pull-up she wants to go in it. I figure that her last day with this teacher is the 24th so really if the teacher reacts terribly, which I think she will, it's not a huge loss, not as if I did it with 3 mos. left (when I was tempted to). Much of the next 3 weeks will be increasing the time in the new classroom (transitioning).

There is a social issue with DD's BFF on which I want your advice but I really should eat now.

Still puking and problems on the other end at 23 weeks. Seriously. This is nuts. Also the baby wants to grow a bump on my left side so that has been hurting for a million years. Not thinking much about the birth at all compared to with DD -- I hope I get a little focused on it come fall. Settled on names with DH, which is HUGE. You may recall that we didn't have names with DD until 37 weeks, and that it made me kinda nuts.







Not finding out gender before birth. Boss seems to be planning for my maternity leave and isn't giving me problems about the 6 mos., so that is HUGE. Feel fat (as opposed to pregnant) and gross. Also nutritionally deficient -- mac and cheese is a staple. Strong aversions still, and weak appetite, so I try to force down the only thing that sounds non-gross. But I am alive and showing up for work, both of which are necessary, and I am even taking some care of DD (although DH usually has to pinch hit to give me a chance to lie down).

This weekend I am hosting a small sleepover of moms and toddlers and babies -- should be interesting! Somewhat stressful that everything in my home is falling apart, but I am trying to stop stressing about it and just enjoy being "encircled."

Next weekend is DD's bday party. We are spreading her presents out so that it is not too much all at once (which means a few toys are hits and the rest get ignored). An easel I picked up for free is a huge hit. Also likes her piggy bank (I would not have done this -- I think she is too young -- but DH did) and is saving up for a popsicle and a cow. DH has taked her into downgrading to a stuffed toy cow. Lots of questions re what things cost.

Also extremely interested in weather -- reasons and predictions -- and airplanes, specifically how take-off and landing works, and more generally why some things fly and others float. If you have any good ideas for "unschooling" those, lemme know.

No vacation plans yet for the rest of the summer.... A slight bummer but I am the social coordinator of the family and I just haven't had the time/energy.

*SIHAYA*, I am excited for you! But yes I remember the flip outs. I had a good feeling about this one, though. I made a deal with myself to stop stressing once I heard a heartbeat. I just didn't want to live with 40 weeks of anxiety.

*MMM,* Wow, I remember your last TTC journey so well. I am a little surprised you are trying now with the exciting new developments on the career front, but I guess you are shooting for the multi-tasking queen award. Good luck communicating with DP on it -- it's just inherently hard, I think.


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## Sihaya

Thanks, everyone. My panic has subsided a bit over the last week. I had my first OB appt yesterday, which helped a lot. I will be staying with the OB through 16 weeks, then switching back to my home birth midwife at 20 weeks. We scheduled an ultrasound for 8 weeks and I am pretty much just holding my breath until then. If I can make it through the next four weeks without spotting and then see a gorgeous heartbeat on the screen, there will be an enormous exhale and so much pressure relieved.

*PiePie* - I wish there were more of us closer to each other so we could help you feel more encircled right now









Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
*SIHAYA*, I am excited for you! But yes I remember the flip outs. I had a good feeling about this one, though. I made a deal with myself to stop stressing once I heard a heartbeat. I just didn't want to live with 40 weeks of anxiety.

Thanks, I have a good feeling this time too and I know I will feel a lot less stressed once I see/hear a heartbeat.


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## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
*MMM,* Wow, I remember your last TTC journey so well. I am a little surprised you are trying now with the exciting new developments on the career front, but I guess you are shooting for the multi-tasking queen award. Good luck communicating with DP on it -- it's just inherently hard, I think.

Yeah - I can see that it seems a bit crazy but there's method in the madness. We are broke. DP is also miserable and stuck working in her family business for crappy, but guaranteed money. She just wants to stay home with the kid too. I have zero desire to get back into the stress filled, shitty paid, world of community and non-profit orgs while I have small children (I appreciate that you're in that world and that some can make it work, but I know that I couldn't) but I need to earn some money. And we'd love if DP could drop the work with the family business, spend more time at home and concentrate solely on her design business which keeps being pushed to the side because of (her) family demands...
And we want another kid soon.
...obviously birth doula-ing won't work with a small nursling but with a supportive mum, a day a week at childcare for Sebby, and hopefully, eventually, a DP who is working solely from home, we may just be able to swing the post natal stuff, which is more contained and pretty decent money. Even 8 hours a week would make a massive difference to our financial situation but in the mid-term it would be preferable for us both to work 50/50 and be with the kids 50/50. It's do-able. We just have to work hard to make it happen.

I'm sorry you're still sick. It's just so unfair. But glad to hear that your 6months mat. leave isn't looking too tricky. Thinking of you x


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## TinyFrog

Hi ladies. I changed my name. I used to be an *addict* of *water*.







I updated my name in the facebook group too, hopefully that helps if you are a little confused. I was the one that was building the house that took forever (3.5 years actually). Well, we finished the house (mostly







), moved in last year and was then hit hard by *something* bizarre that gave me some severe neurological issues that resulted in being out of work for many months. Finally figured out recently that is was food related and am working through all of that now.

With that behind me, and the house too, we finally decided to TTC and I am now due with baby #1 in April.







My due date is the same date as Steph actually.









I am really hoping MMM joins the April DDC too!


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## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinyFrog* 
Hi ladies. I changed my name. I used to be an *addict* of *water*.







I updated my name in the facebook group too, hopefully that helps if you are a little confused. I was the one that was building the house that took forever (3.5 years actually). Well, we finished the house (mostly







), moved in last year and was then hit hard by *something* bizarre that gave me some severe neurological issues that resulted in being out of work for many months. Finally figured out recently that is was food related and am working through all of that now.

With that behind me, and the house too, we finally decided to TTC and I am now due with baby #1 in April.







My due date is the same date as Steph actually.









I am really hoping MMM joins the April DDC too!









Welcome back TinyFrog! What a loyal NMY follower you've been. I'm so happy that your time has finally come. Congratulations.









Sorry to hear about your poor health. That sounds really frightening on several levels. I hope you've found an acceptable way to deal with it. (That isn't about very little permissible food - a few of us have been there to varying degrees and know that it's not fun!)

AFM: I don't think I'll be hanging out in the April DDC. At 11DPO I'm feeling pretty PMS-y and all of my imaginary symptoms have completely left the building! That's ok. I'm not gonna panic yet!


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## Maela

TinyFrog, I remember you! It's really weird because just a couple of days ago I was wondering what happened to "the girl who was building the house."







No kidding. Congrats on the pregnancy!


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## Maela

The school year is starting. Not only will dh be teaching but he will also be going back to school himself. For a few years - he's going to be changing careers. We'll be making little money and his parents will be helping us out. It's only the first day back and already our house is a mess. I'm already super stressed out; I guess just from the thought of taking care of everything (cooking/cleaning) + kids. I have a really hard time being okay with a messy house. Ds doesn't want to be held much anymore, but when he's down he's very often getting into trouble.

Any suggestions on becoming calmer, more okay with dirt/messes, etc.? It's always stressful this time of year for Dh, so I feel like I have to be the strong one here. I really want him to feel okay with going back to school as he seems excited and committed to the change in career - nursing!

Sorry this post is so jumbled. I'm trying to do ten things at once.

ETA: Also I still really want to homeschool/unschool, but guess what Dd has been saying lately? M: "Mama, when I get older can I go to school?"
Me: "If you want to, but you could also stay here with us and learn at home."
M: "I don't want to. I want to go to school."
Me: "That's okay. But the thing about school is that you're going to have to learn what the teacher says, when she says. At home, you can learn whatever you want whenever you want."
M: " That's okay. I'll do what the teacher tells me to do."


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## PiePie

*MMM,* I have a friend who does post-partum doula work (she charges the going rate here, which is $40/hour) and also teaches classes on birthing, breastfeeding, and adjusting to life with a newborn. She also runs a moms' group for which women pay significant $ ($20 each per week) and teaches occasional sleep clinics. She does all of her teaching on weekends so her DH can watch the kids (they have 2). It works for her. She does, however, spend non-trivial amounts of time preparing to teach, and can't do weekends away all the time. Be sure to figure into the budgeting some time off paid work for yourself post-partum.


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## PiePie

*Maela*, Look at it from her perspective for a minute. She has a dad who's been a teacher for her whole life. Small wonder she should think sch would be a fun place to be.


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
*Maela*, Look at it from her perspective for a minute. She has a dad who's been a teacher for her whole life. Small wonder she should think sch would be a fun place to be.

That's true. Thanks Piepie.

If I could be guaranteed that every teacher she had would be like her dad, I would be a little more relaxed about this.


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## accountclosed3

Maela:

At her age, and until she's probably a teen IMO, she's really not in a space to make hard core educational decisions. She can make decisions about what to learn and even how to learn it, but providing resources and which resources is really the parent's job. so, it may be that she decides for school when she is old enough--high school or uni--but until then, you do what you think is best.

As far as the messy house stuff, that is an interesting thing.

first, i would develop a rhythm so that there are multiple aspects to your day/week wherein the chores get done (heavy chores, one per day, once per week), and the tidying gets done (every day) in a way that is comfortable and sustainable to you.

for me, this alone created a devotional process with cleaning, which made it ritualized, focused, and easier to let it go when it "wasn't time to clean." it allowed there to be times of mess, because i knew that it would be clean before bed, or when i got up first thing in the morning, and so on.

i have found that the mess in between the tidying is easier to handle because it is purposeful mess--the process of playing, living, and learning. since i want to play, live, and learn, then the mess is a part of that process and i'm actually happy to co-create it with the kiddo and ryan.

and, i do most of the cleaning here anyway. ryan was supposed to come on line more, but he doesn't do much mroe than pull the clothes out of the dryer and toss them in a pile on the bed (so i fold and put it away), wash what dishes he needs as he needs them (if i haven't washed them already), and cook/prep about half the meals. I have really, just given up on the idea that we would be partners in housekeeping. I have found no way to motivate him, encourage him, or engage him in it in over 12 years, though he will do something when i ask him to directly (eg, he puts the pile on the bed, and because i'm doing dishes, i ask "will you fold and put the laundry away please? it takes five minutes, then you can read your book." and he will do it. otherwise, i have just accepted that i like the house this way, he doesn't care, and so i need to make it happen.


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## PiePie

*zoebird*, ryan is a man after dh's own heart. I am still







over it. I do not expect 50/50, because that is making him work toward MY ideal which is not his and I really don't have the right to impose that on him. and my dh does do 100% of the cooking (when he is not on business travel). i am so grateful for the cooking. and he does do some toy pickup, when it gets out of control. but it is still a point of tension in our home. for us the sticking point is that i work outside the home many fewer hours, so he believes it is fair that i do more (all??) of the housework. i see my job during those times as childcare not housework. i do not involve dd in housework as much as my mom did me or as much as dh does. hence, dd thinks dh is the "cleaning boy," because i clean when she is out with dh. i used to clean when she was sleeping but we are having nap resistance around here. i have been known to pop in a video when i am overwhelmed and need 1/2 to clean (cleaning with her is not efficient). but basically maela i am comfortable with a messy house 75% of the time, until it reaches a point i can't live with, and then i clean and it gets messy again. i would rather be online, playing with dd, sleeping, etc. i am okay with that.


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## Maela

I just cannot be okay with the house all messy. I've tried, I have. Because I know it's not the end of the world to have a messy house. And I am MUCH less of a clean freak than my parents. But seeing a bunch of clutter on the floors and dirty counters just makes me seriously grumpy and it makes me feel scatterbrained.

ZB, thanks for the suggestions. I made up a weekly schedule for big cleaning (mopping, bathrooms, etc.) and a very flexible daily schedule which fits in playing with the kids, special time with Maev, a little bit of me time and cleaning/cooking.

So far today has gone well.

Also going to continue to try to lower my standards.


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## cking

Where have I been? Congrats to Steph and TinyFrog! I'm so excited for you both.









Happy Birthday to Westley!


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## Maela

I have had three really good days in a row.









That's all.


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## witchygrrl

Ladies, it has come to my attention that Rhea totally loves the daycare provider she has been at this week, while our normal person has been on vacation. We had another person in between who was okay, but this nice woman seems to be the one! After ony 4 days, she did not cry at drop off, which has been the case every other day with the two other women.

So how do I do this? She has to go back to daycare lady 1 next week, but we really want to switch! I don't want to create any bad blood, iykwim?


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## Angelorum

We are finally, completely, and officially moved out of our old apartment! Now all we have to do is get moved in to our new one.







I just keep telling myself that it will only get less chaotic from here on out.

Also, I start school again in 11 days


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## PiePie

*witchy*, just do it. it's right for your child and you know it. when we dropped our nanny (with tons of notice) for sch, she was not happy, of course. but she got over it and we are still friendly on the facebook, we should get together sometime level. be sure to keep pics of the old one to show rhea -- you will be amazed at how important this is to rhea. last night DD wanted to see pics of her old nanny, whom she had not seen in nearly 2 years!


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## PiePie

DD is potty learned. Daytime only. I do not want nighttime to happen any time soon. Although she always wakes up with a dry pullup, i really do not want her peeing on our shared bed. she also does not need sleep interruptions. as it is i am getting her down too late at night anyway.


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## Angelorum

Maela- I will trade you some of my lower house cleaning standards for your higher ones









The boxes are slowly starting to dissipate. Westley seems to be adjusting ok to the new house now that it's in a more livable condition and we're not running back and forth to our old place trying to get it cleaned up. Sleep is way way off still though. The week of the move he kept waking up to play for 2 hours in the early early morning. That plus all the work to do during the day about did me in. Thankfully he hasn't done that for a few nights now, I'm just trying to bring his bedtime up to a reasonable hour, this week, my goal for his bedtime has been 11:00pm if that tells you how off we are at the moment. We're slowly moving it up.

Congrats Tinyfrog!

And witchy, I agree with PiePie. Just do it. Tell her your dd's personality just seems to match up better with the new provider and that it's nothing personal.


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## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 
Maela- I will trade you some of my lower house cleaning standards for your higher ones

















okay!


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## MujerMamaMismo

Hey! Where are we all? I love this little group. Please don't let us fade away!

So much happening in our world at the moment. Our donors baby was born 2 weeks ago. I attended the c-section birth (she had a placenta previa) which was intense but Mama and babe are doing beautifully and Sebby is very excited about his new cousin (we've decided to call them cousins because siblings implies something that it's not.)

Babymaking is thus on hold for a minute, which I'm happy about. I am so ambivalent about number 2. I desperately want it but I desperately don't want the added intensity and responsibility.

And finally, we re-nightweaned Sebby two weeks ago. He's been STTN for a week now. I've been sleeping in the guest room and DS sleeps with DP. Hopefully in a few weeks I can go back to the family bed but if I can't, I'm ok with that. Sleep is amazing and I'll do whatever I can to get as much as possible. Subsequently, I've been sick sick sick because my body collapsed when it finally got sleep!

So, where are you all? News and gossip please!??


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## Maela

Wow, had it really been 15 days since the last post?! I also don't want our little group to fade away. You guys have been a great support network for those times when I felt so alone in the way I parent. And I love hearing about all the little ones!







They're growing up so fast!

Dh's movie (he's been making it with his friend for the past two years) is going to be playing in our local theatre in just a couple of weeks! He's still doing last minute editing, and so has been very busy. On top of that, he's starting classes this week (science pre-reqs for nursing school) and is also very stressed about that.

The kids are sick (again!), but thankfully this time it's just runny noses and slightly sore throats. Jaim has gotten sick a lot more than Maev did as a baby. I think because we are out more at places with lots of other kids (library, park, etc.) than I went to with just Maev when she was a baby. And, as a 3 yo, she doesn't have the best handwashing skills as Dh and I do.









I'm going to try a fall garden this year. Just some red and green lettuce and broccoli. That's the project for today.


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## Maela

MMM - yay for sleeping through the night! I can't wait for that myself!


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## TinyFrog

I agree, this group can't fade away now, I'm just finally starting my journey. It just took me a lot longer than most of you.









I am 8 weeks and very fortunate that I have felt quite well up to this point. I did however sleep for the better part of 12 hours last night.


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## Sihaya

I'm also 8 weeks along. We had an ultrasound and saw a gorgeous little heartbeat a little over a week ago







I won't be confident enough to let everyone know until we hear the heartbeat again at our 12 week appointment, but I'm much more confident than I was before the u/s.

I'm feeling like absolute crap - not puking very much, but have a constant feeling that I'm going to any moment. I've been a worthless lump for several weeks now, but the plus side is that I never felt this badly with either of the miscarriages and was spotting/bleeding by now with both of them, so I'm hoping those are good signs that this one will stick.


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## PiePie

Hi everyone. I am still here. 27 weeks along and still puking! And on the drug. Tomorrow morning is my glucose test, which I dread. Having DH watch DD because I don't feel like I can deal with her and the test simultaneously.

*Sihaya*, what you are describing sounds like my pregnancy with DD (not this pregnancy, which does not feature constant nausea but does feature more actual vomiting, sorry tmi). My m/c likewise did not involve nausea or vomiting. So I think it's a very good sign. Do you feel less bonded to your lil bean than with DS? Because I definitely felt like I was holding back for the first 10 weeks....

This babe is super active and also super hiccup-y. DD was neither in utero, although plenty physical once on the outside.

Wanted to go visit a friend who had a babe but couldn't do it when she and DP decided they don't want kids around their kid. I don't hold it against them, although I was surprised (what do they think younger sibs experience?), but it just made it too difficult logistically for me. DH is way stressed at how long my m/s has lasted and how much more childcare and housekeeping work that has meant for him. I just felt like I couldn't push him to the breaking point, because arguably we have already been there and back.

DD is doing very well, reading up a storm, and using impeccable logic. However, behaviorally there have been more challenges since weaning. Anyone else notice a correlation?? She used to be so resilient whereas now she cries at the drop of a hat and does, I swear, less independent play than 3 mos. ago. Also one of her strengths was having a very high frustration threshold and now she gets upset much more easily. Lots of regressive behavior, claiming she's a baby and can't walk, baby talk, demanding to be spoonfed (although she wasn't spoonfed as a baby!), demanding to have nighttime pull-up put on as a diaper (lying on her back with her legs in the air), etc.

Not sure how much of this is related to new sibling and how much it is typical 3 yo. A lot of the crying is definitely attention-seeking.... She does pretend to hit the baby but also says really sweet things, e.g., "Love is growing inside you." She is obsessed with what she is going to do with the new baby, much of which is not age-appropriate, but this morning she was running down her plan for keeping the baby from crying while I took long showers (a plan DH never made or implemented consistently, so hey, I'll take it! long showers are my thing.)

Today was particularly tough. In fairness today I was stressed and DH was stressed and she was getting less attention and probably sensing our stress. Tomorrow will be better.


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## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
DD is doing very well, reading up a storm, and using impeccable logic. However, behaviorally there have been more challenges since weaning. Anyone else notice a correlation?? She used to be so resilient whereas now she cries at the drop of a hat and does, I swear, less independent play than 3 mos. ago. Also one of her strengths was having a very high frustration threshold and now she gets upset much more easily. Lots of regressive behavior, claiming she's a baby and can't walk, baby talk, demanding to be spoonfed (although she wasn't spoonfed as a baby!), demanding to have nighttime pull-up put on as a diaper (lying on her back with her legs in the air), etc.

Not sure how much of this is related to new sibling and how much it is typical 3 yo. A lot of the crying is definitely attention-seeking.... She does pretend to hit the baby but also says really sweet things, e.g., "Love is growing inside you." She is obsessed with what she is going to do with the new baby, much of which is not age-appropriate, but this morning she was running down her plan for keeping the baby from crying while I took long showers (a plan DH never made or implemented consistently, so hey, I'll take it! long showers are my thing.)

Today was particularly tough. In fairness today I was stressed and DH was stressed and she was getting less attention and probably sensing our stress. Tomorrow will be better.

I've just had some revelations with Fenton that won't surprise you, but it surprised me how hard it was for me to recognize it in my own child: He gets wild, destructive, clingy and frustrated when he's not getting enough attention from DH and I, or if he's overstimulated ("stacked" stimulating events, etc.). I've known all of this in theory about children, but I'm surprised how difficult my own stubbornness and agenda made it hard for me to reognize. It also sounds like it could be her just adjusting to what her new roles are and will be. It's frustrating to feel like it's regression, but I think it's more like a labryrinth: You seem like you're right back where you started, but you're evolving and the swinging-by-where-you-used-to-be is part of the journey.

I need some advice: Fenton has started playing with boys who are older, and he's starting to show a lot of interest in guns, and talks about "killing" and things being "killed". I feel like it's a mistake for me to give this too much attention, both because it may be developmentally appropriate to get fascinated with what death is, what power is, etc. but I also don't want to play into desensitizing him to this. I've been realizing how much my reaction to this is my social discomfort with death, like it's a shameful thing that happens to us all Any advice? In a discussion with DH last night, I thought that he isn't on the path to being a serial killer just because he doesn't understand the gravity of death and killing at age 3. So far I just keep saying blandly "Killing something is a pretty serious thing. Do you know what it means?"

Gave up on potty training, and I feel so liberated. Peace restored to our home. Thanks Pie Pie







Also reading this book and loving it - much of it is cringe-worthy liberal over-correction for authoritarianism, and yet there's still so much of value in it, and even the stuff that seems over teh top feels like it inspires the better parent in me.

Which, speaking of, gotta go. I think my boys are organizing a mutiny


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## Maela

PiePie, I can't believe you're so far along already! I'm sorry to hear you're still so sick.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
She used to be so resilient whereas now she cries at the drop of a hat and does, I swear, less independent play than 3 mos. ago. Also one of her strengths was having a very high frustration threshold and now she gets upset much more easily.

This sounds EXACTLY like Maev! I think a lot of it is the age.


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## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
I've just had some revelations with Fenton that won't surprise you, but it surprised me how hard it was for me to recognize it in my own child: He gets wild, destructive, clingy and frustrated when he's not getting enough attention from DH and I, or if he's overstimulated ("stacked" stimulating events, etc.). I've known all of this in theory about children, but I'm surprised how difficult my own stubbornness and agenda made it hard for me to reognize.

Yep. It manifests differently in Sebby - like he gets unbelievably hyper at bedtime, and/or sleeps really poorly but I've just had the same revelation. Sebby is such an amazing kid - he's incredibly gentle, even tempered and pretty placid for an almost 2 year old boy but what i've really come to understand in the last month is that he's way more sensitive than me and though he may not react to stress, overstimulation, change etc outwardly (which is what I do) he carries it long and far and it has mostly played out in our crappy sleep situation. DP, who is also much more sensitive than me, has always maintained that DS was more sensitive than I acknowledged but because he doesn't scream, tantrum or act out, I've always brushed it off a bit 'he's fine - stop worrying.' So I'm really trying to honour his gentle soul and spend more time being present and less time doing stuff and it's changed everything. Can you imagine the guilt though - I feel terrible for ignoring such a fundamental element of my beautiful boy for such a long time.

Sleep is still great. He's still STTN most nights and very easy for DP to resettle if he does wake up once or twice. And I know I said that I'd do anything to keep sleeping but I miss sleeping with my family and I definitely feel like there's a break in our connection. DP and I can make it up in other ways but I really, really miss sleeping with my boy. I hope I can go back to them soon. (And here I was thinking I'd like to try and transition DS into his own room....huh. Not likely! lol)


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## MujerMamaMismo

BTW - so good to hear from y'all. Thanks for making the effort! xxoo


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## cking

So much activity here today. Love it! MMM, thanks for asking.

I'm here, just very tired. Nicholas is unstoppable. He started belly crawling about a month ago, and now he's moved on to hands-and-knees, as well as pulling up to standing. He's still wobbly though, and doesn't know how to get down, so we've had lots of crash landings. He just cut his third tooth. He's been cranky pants for a while now, wants to be held quite a bit. He's heavy too, about 21 lbs, so my arms is tired. Josephine seems somewhat threatened by his new mobility and tries to use every opportunity to let him get hurt. He just wants to impress her, crawls over to her and climbs on her constantly. Or maybe he just wants her toys.

But. Her speech is taking even more leaps lately. She's been very inquistive: "What's his name? Can I eat this? What kind of cat/bird/chicken? Where's (her shoes/that tomato/she from?" (each of these questions is repeated for every object she happens to be focusing on at the time, every bite of food, etc.) It's pretty cute. But of course, exhausting.

Josephine is going to start at a preschool next week. It's a coop program, 2 days/week, 2 hours. I think she is really ready for it and can use the time away from me/home. It doesn't give me a ton of time to myself/Nicholas, but I think it'll give much more structure to our day and week, which we totally need.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
However, behaviorally there have been more challenges since weaning. Anyone else notice a correlation?? She used to be so resilient whereas now she cries at the drop of a hat and does, I swear, less independent play than 3 mos. ago. Also one of her strengths was having a very high frustration threshold and now she gets upset much more easily. Lots of regressive behavior, claiming she's a baby and can't walk, baby talk, demanding to be spoonfed (although she wasn't spoonfed as a baby!), demanding to have nighttime pull-up put on as a diaper (lying on her back with her legs in the air), etc.



We get all of these and she is not weaned. I actually sometimes wonder if these things are made worse because she still nurses. But the new sibling is, I'm sure, part of it. (also wonder if it was a mistake not weaning before N started solids, since I can no longer tell her "that is all he can eat.")

anyway, she's doing this more and more. the more active he gets, the more she imitates him. She's trying to spoon feed _him_, but also throwing her cup/spoon on the floor, as he does, and asking me to get it for her, as i do for him. and with potty training: I can't say there are no more diapers, since we have plenty for him (and they wear the same size.). frustrating. just commiseration...I think it's normal, and you'll probably see quite a bit more of it once the babe arrives.


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## MujerMamaMismo

Just checking in...trying to keep the momentum going.

Last night I dreamed that I was attending a birth and the midwives were hostile to doulas so they pinned me down and gave me an epidural. I spent the rest of the birth slumped in the corner, unable to do a thing. I'm feeling a bit traumatised and it wasn't even real!

I think I've been feeling a bit hamstrung for the last month or so and I think that's what this dream was telling me. So today, I'm catching up on ignored work and getting serious about my business plan.

Sebby STTN again last night. AMAZING!


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## Angelorum

Halfway into my second week of classes. So far it's going pretty well, but we'll see how it goes once the big projects really start.

Speaking of projects, I need some ideas from you creative ladies. One of my classes this year is an Electric/Acoustic Music Composition class. The teacher is really into modern music and expects us to compose in that style. My major is jazz composition, so the modern stuff really isn't my thing. Our first project is to do a composition using prerecorded material, which we can alter and transform in any way on the computer. I think my only hope at doing a decent job is to have some sort of story in mind to build the composition around, otherwise I'll just be lost. So the first idea that came to mind was Westley's labor and birth story. Labor has a rhythm, a building of intensity, and a climax, all of which I think I can translate easily to music. The only thing I'm stuck on is what sounds to use. I have a time slot in the recording studio on Friday to record the samples, and I have no idea what to record. I want a sound that can signify a contraction, I'm thinking something sustained with a sliding pitch , to sort of sound like a moan. I could sing, but I really don't want it to end up sounding sexual. I only play the piano, which doesn't really slide well. I could use any object at all, I could even rent a digital recorder from the school if it's a sound I can't take into the studio. I just need to come up with something by Friday. Any wild ideas??

MMM- I am so glad Sebby is sleeping well for you. We are in the middle of some big sleep problems here, and I have to admit that when I'm losing patience I've thought of you and realized that my situation could be worse!









Westley just suddenly started resisting our normal sleep routine. It took me 2 hours to get him to sleep tonight, 2 last night, 4 hours the night before! Also he's been waking up in the middle of the night and not going back to sleep for hours. He has always woken every hour or two in the night to nurse, and I really don't even care about that at this point as long as I can get him back to sleep! For months our routine has been that we get all ready for sleep, and then he goes in the Mei Tai and I sit on an exercise ball and bounce until he's out. Sometimes he nurses on the ball, sometimes not. It took anywhere from 20-40 minutes of bouncing usually, but it didn't bother me because I would bounce in front of the computer and browse while he was falling asleep. I was hoping to transition away from the bouncing soon, but I didn't want to mess anymore with the routines while we were moving and getting used to me going to school, but it's just not working anymore. He'll let me bounce him for a few minutes, and he even starts getting droopy eyed, but then he starts crying and asking to be put down. If I persist with the bouncing he just gets angrier and starts biting my nipples. If I was having a hard time getting him to sleep in the past I'd send him on long walks in the wrap with dh, but even that's not working anymore. The only way I've gotten him to sleep these past couple nights has been to bounce him until he won't let me anymore and then go for walks, read more books, rock in the chair, lay down and nurse again and again and again. He eventually falls asleep laying down with me and nursing. But that part takes a long time with lots of rolling and crawling around and pinching and twiddling, it's not like I can just lay him down and have him calmly nurse, ya know? I just don't know what else to try, and I am not even sure what is causing the trouble in the first place, though I have lots of ideas. I'm just crossing my fingers that it passes quickly, because I've been really sleepy in class lately.


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## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 
So the first idea that came to mind was Westley's labor and birth story. Labor has a rhythm, a building of intensity, and a climax, all of which I think I can translate easily to music. The only thing I'm stuck on is what sounds to use. I have a time slot in the recording studio on Friday to record the samples, and I have no idea what to record. I want a sound that can signify a contraction, I'm thinking something sustained with a sliding pitch , to sort of sound like a moan. Any wild ideas??

Well I don't have a musical bone in my body so take my idea with a pinch of salt...
what I thought of straight away though was something quite breathy and percussive - nothing heavy - what are those wire brush things you use on cymbals? they could be useful. Or chanting? yep. that's all i have. good luck!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 
MMM- I am so glad Sebby is sleeping well for you. We are in the middle of some big sleep problems here, and I have to admit that when I'm losing patience I've thought of you and realized that my situation could be worse!









I'm glad my misery gives others a lift! It's gotta be good for someone! lol.

Sounds to me that Westley is in some kind of transition and the sleep disturbance is likely not permanent. Has it been going long? Teeth? Developmental milestone? Language breakthrough? I can't remember, is he walking yet?

Has he already dropped down to one nap per day? If not, maybe it's time - that transition can be tricky and you may have to deal with a cranky baby while he adjusts but it may help the night time sleep. It may also help him get to sleep earlier and easier at night time too.
Your bedtime routine sounds unbearable to me - it's amazing the lengths we'll go to for these little critters!


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## Angelorum

His sleep was pretty messed up during the move, but I attribute that to the fact that we were running all over the place during nap times/bed times and his whole world just got packed up and dumped in an entirely new place. Things were starting to get back to normal when he started this new thing. It's been 5 days of resisting the routine now. So not long.

He has pretty much just finished switching to 1 nap, though he woke up at 6:30 this morning and just fell asleep again at 10, so we're probably going to try for 2 naps today. When he sleeps well at night he has no problem with one nap.

It could be teeth, he's got bumps where his molars and his next bottom teeth will be, but they've been there for weeks, so who knows when they're actually going to come. The thing is, he's not up crying when he's resisting bedtime or awake in the middle of the night, aside from being a little cranky because he's tired, he mostly just wants to play.

It could also be developmental. He's been walking for 3 months, so probably not that. Maybe language though. He has a few words and 1 or 2 signs. But we've been labeling things for him a lot lately, and recently he's been bringing me books to read to him several times a day.

Or maybe he's still adjusting to the new apartment and to me leaving to go to school. My sister said her 2 year old stopped napping for an entire month when they moved. So, he could still be adjusting.

I really hope you're right that it won't last long.

Quote:

Well I don't have a musical bone in my body so take my idea with a pinch of salt...
what I thought of straight away though was something quite breathy and percussive - nothing heavy - what are those wire brush things you use on cymbals? they could be useful. Or chanting? yep. that's all i have. good luck!
Those wire things are just called brushes. They could produce a cool windy effect. I've thought about using some kind of rushing water/wind sound as the contraction. Hmmm...


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## witchygrrl

So we get to hear the finished result, right? Moving is tough on babes. When Rhea was 1, we moved to where we are now...I'm hoping we don't have to do it again until we buy a house. Whenever that is...

Rhea has a few transitions of her own going on. She's really gotten into the idea of ownership...like "my pillow" and "my chair." We're thinking the pillow thing might be her small way into transitioning out of the family bed, but baby steps. We don't have much else of a place to put her right now, so our bed is fine with us. And it's quarter to six and she hasn't had a nap yet today. We'll see if that translates into an early bedtme. That would be nice.

Hmmm, what else is new....I'm experimenting with gluten-free/grain-free TF/Paleo...I've slimmed down a bit this summer..about ten pounds total. I need to lose more before I'm at a happy size, but I'll take it.

And DH has just gotten a part-time position teaching HS art after school. I think I mentioned he was hoping for it, but he was just told yesterday that he has it. It might not be all the money we need (he can still collect some unemployment), but at least he'll be happy, and that's all I can ask for.

Love to you all.


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## PiePie

*MMM,* Do not feel guilty about your late discovery! Sleepless in America is all about the phenomenon you describe with S., where kids appear adaptable but actuallly need more down time. This from a woman who wrote multiple parenting books before zooming in on the underlying cause of sleep deprivation. It made me institute "siesta time," when I had thought I would let DD give up her nap while at home (she naps like a dream at sch). We don't do it every day, because sometimes it's logistically impossible to get back home in the middle of the day, but I'm a believer. it also means I am backing away from signing her up for the sch's much-touted "extras" (Spanish, soccer, and drama) because they would cut into her nap time (I think).

She definitely needs more challenge at sch -- had mastered all the sch's gross motor milestones by 22 mos. -- yes, that would be the milestones for the kids to reach by their 5th bday. And she is light years ahead of the other children in terms of reading, being read to, board games, printing, imaginary play with narrative, etc. There was one child, her BFF (although he has a lot of problematic behaviors and the sch social worker believed they had a bad dynamic where she was submissive and he was dominant -- the teachers weren't worried unless he was physically transgressive of her boundaries, because they thought she was dominant with everyone else, so she wasn't really a doormat), who was way ahead of her with those things, but he has moved onto another sch, which we probably cannot afford. I am trying to figure out how to approach her new teachers with tact to flag that she needs more challenges. Her old BFF would act out when he wasn't challenged; she is too much of a teacher pleaser to do that, and actually very interested in the social challenge of persuading everyone to do what she wants them to do. DH thinks she's going to be a director when she grows up. Mostly I think they need to read more complex literature, either with her one-on-one (her 1 yo class brought in a 4th teacher for half the day to do this with her, and they do have a 4th teacher there, which makes for a pretty good ratio even assuming they have the max of 12 kids, given that most are not there all day or for 5 days a week) or to the class if they other kids can sit through. My past approach has been to bring in books for them to read -- the teachers in her 1 yo classroom loved that I did this (they appreciated my taste), the head teacher in her 2 yo classroom was pissed off but the other two teachers liked it; this year is a question mark. Today she was so happy to be back and in the new classroom that her teachers had to remind her to say good-bye to DH.







That's my girl.

*Maela*, Thanks so much for saying that you think it's the age. I would like to chalk it up to that but I don't really know what's typical for 3s. There's the "terrible 2's," "the f*cking 4's" -- but what about the 3's?

*Shanna*, Interesting that you are liking Aldort. I have to say I hated that book, because it definitely does not take into consideration that parents can have needs too. A total contrast with Pam Leo's _Connection Parenting_. Some of my issues with Aldort are based in lifestyle -- if one truly never had to be anywhere at a time certain, it might work. But that is never going to be my life. Even if I were SAH and HSing, I would still have commitments in the community for my children -- I have no delusion that I am the best person to teach them foreign language, music (certainly not music!), athletics (particularly since, Lord help us, she seems more bent toward dance, gymnastics, and skating, as opposed to soccer, which is one thing I actually could teach.) Mostly her ideal seemed to be to be an unscheduled life in which one follows one's child's pace, but my child's temperament involves being with other people, who have their own paces. Just in general she seemed to have a lot of shame about life in the public sphere. I am definitely like, if your kid tantrums at the grocery store, be with them at the grocery store and work through the tantrum, who cares what anyone else thinks. She is more like, if your kid tantrums at the grocery store, have someone else do the shopping for a few years. yeah, in whose universe. I cannot make the world revolve around my child like that. it's partly that i don't have that kind of help, but partly that i do think my child shouldn't need it, we should be able to bend the world so that she can live in it (while acting her age) rather than retreat from everything. Sometimes that means telling her we can't read a book right then because we have to go to another commitment and she has to learn to postpone her gratification. Rant off.

*cking*, thanks for saying it happens even without weaning. I am sure that presch will be good for J and for you.

I have seen *cking's* DS in action and he is a mover and a shaker, that's for sure.

OK, must get back to work. Love to you all.


----------



## Angelorum

Sleep is going sooo much better these past couple days. He woke up early today, and then had a "nap" from 8:30-9:30ish but I'll take that over awake 4 hours past bedtime any day! Poor guy's teething hardcore though, just cut a new one yesterday.

I ended up blowing into a glass bottle in the recording studio. It took a while to refine my bottle technique







, but I think I got some usable material.

And I've been meaning to post this but after reading this blog post, I decided to buy some flat shoes to wear all the time. Previously, I was always wearing my Dansko clogs or Dansko sandals, both of which have an elevated heel. It's only been a couple weeks, and I only wear shoes when I'm out of the house (only 1-3 hours a day usually), but I've noticed a big improvement in my pelvic floor aches.


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
*MMM,* Do not feel guilty about your late discovery! Sleepless in America is all about the phenomenon you describe with S., where kids appear adaptable but actuallly need more down time.

Yes! It took me 2 pages of Sleepless in America to get to my new understanding. I was reading it because I was interested in the stuff about structuring your day for optimal sleep but I got sooooooo much more than I expected out of it. It's quite a surprising book - looks all pop-psych, self-helpy but is actually really useful. I recommend to everyone.
*
PiePie*, would L do well in a Reggio inspired program? She sounds well suited (for a 3-6 class). We just started a Reggio playgroup and we LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE it. I love that it's child led. I love that it's play based. I love that there is truly no dogma. I just LOVE it. (I secretly love that my kid is more advanced in his fine motor skills than most of the 3 year olds...because he's a genius...but only I'm allowed to know and think that! LOL) And I'm so much more inspired in our home activities now because of it.









*Witchy* - so glad the DH has finally found work - I hope you can sort the $$$ stuff out. Why must $ be so stressful?


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angelorum* 
Sleep is going sooo much better these past couple days. He woke up early today, and then had a "nap" from 8:30-9:30ish but I'll take that over awake 4 hours past bedtime any day! Poor guy's teething hardcore though, just cut a new one yesterday.

Teething is truly brutal. I hope he gets through the next little bit quickly and without too much more pain and disruption. I'm glad sleep is better.


----------



## accountclosed3

i'm sorry that i have been so remiss!

i have been reading along, but every time i go to post, i get interrupted! it's a mess.









Everything here is going well, but is very busy and at times, very stressful. we have been surprised at how hostile some people have been toward us, though they are on the way out, and other new awesome people are on the way in. so it's working out nicely.


----------



## Maela

Well, Dh's movie is finished! Lots of people came to see it at the theater last night, and there was lots of laughter (it was a comedy), so Yay!








Also, he couldn't get into the classes he wanted to, so he's waiting to start until next semester to start his pre-reqs for nursing. So I have my husband back!! At least until next semester.

Really working hard now to be back at my pre-pg weight by the 1 year mark (oct 4th). I've got just two more pounds!


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

It's bedtime after day 2 of birthing from within mentor training and my mind is blown! I'm floating around on another plane. It's wild!
Shanna - where are you? We have to talk!!! Xx


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## Maela

Finally making some other mom friends!









That's all. Things are going really well here. A lot of it is a change in attitude (mine).

Hope everyone's having a good week. MMM - I'm glad you're having fun!


----------



## cking

to all.


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## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
It's bedtime after day 2 of birthing from within mentor training and my mind is blown! I'm floating around on another plane. It's wild!
Shanna - where are you? We have to talk!!! Xx

We must talk!!!! I have so many positive things to say about the support and resources and philosophy of BFW. PM me or FB me - I'm already planning advanced training Fall 2012 at Ghost Ranch ( a year later than planned, had a revelation about leaving a 2-year-old for a week without his mama). Wonder if you're planning on continuing? Wonder if we'll meet????









I miss all of you


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## PiePie

*Maela*, Want to hear more about making mommy friends!

I am still here. 31 weeks. Still hate being pregnant. My belly is huge. invested in a support belt(never used one last time, but have a lot more pain a lot earlier in the preg; also not sure that i could have handled an extra layer in the heat) and new bras )major chest expansion) and glad I did both. Major insomnia too, which is usually not a problem of mine.

In battle with DD's sch admin re accelaration. Not expecting to win but expecting to get her need for differentiation flagged. REALLY don't have the energy for this, though. Need to focus on work. Have failed ot make time for applications for new sch for next year, although that's clearly what's needed. I swear to God it is more complicated than applying to law sch. And the odds of admission are much much steeper.... One funny tidbit: for the sch DH likes best ATM, she will have to be interviewed by the author of Playful Parenting!









Having big-time nightmares re work-life balance due to personnel transiition at the top, which has not been good for me/flexibility so far.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
Having big-time nightmares re work-life balance due to personnel transiition at the top, which has not been good for me/flexibility so far.

It's so discouraging to me how these negotiations still happen under the table, leaving one vulnerable to whims. You really don't need this stress right now.

I read about Maela meeting more mama friends and I'm having the opposite dilemma, trying to nurture relationships that don't center around parenting.


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
*Maela*, Want to hear more about making mommy friends!

Part of it is luck and part of it is just reaching out and not caring if I look desperate.







I met a mom from here and we've been having playdates about once a week. I found out that a friend of a friend uses the charter school that we're thinking of using for homeschooling and she leans towards unschooling. So that's nice to have someone to talk to about that. And I've joined some online homeschooling groups for our area. Although, one is an hour away and the other two are barely active.







But I am going to try to get them rolling again. I'm tired of feeling all alone! I'm willing to take some risks now. I also joined a new meetup group that just started for SAHMs in my city, but I'm not too sure about that one as it's not AP, homeschooling or anything; so I'm assuming I'm going to feel like the weird one since AP/NFL is pretty uncommon here. Even though i'm not the most AP person out there, I'm still "weird" for here. That group meets for the first time on Monday, and I'm nervous but forcing myself to go. Maybe I'll be happily surprised.
I think part of my problem was just wanting to find that "perfect friend" that parented just like me. I've realized that's close to impossible. Plus, the more friends I make the bigger chance I'll have of meeting someone really cool, right? And Maev is loving all of the socializing we've been doing. We had to take a break this week because we've all been sick, and the days have been going by SO SLOWLY.

Jaim is going to one on Monday!!!! We're having his birthday dinner on Sunday, and I'm kind of freaking out because our house is a mess, he's still sick, and I'm still not quite sure about the menu!


----------



## PiePie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maela* 
I think part of my problem was just wanting to find that "perfect friend" that parented just like me. I've realized that's close to impossible.

Yes! I had that problem too. I was not cool enough for the LLL group because I WOHM, didn't EC, and didn't HB. I was not cool enough for the mainstream parents because I didn't have a Bugaboo for my infant and when she was a toddler I was still BFing. Babywearing has gone totally mainstream here with the Ergo, so that is not a point of separation, but most parents of infants wanted the Bugaboo to show they loved enough to buy the very best. Or it made them feel like they (the moms) were hot. Quite honestly I haven't felt hot in such a long time that I don't think a stroller would make a whit of difference. Cosleeping is a mixed bag around here -- a lot do it unintentionally because BFing through the first year here is the only thing most women of my class and educational level will admit to. Personally I suspect that a lot who WOH wind up supplementing with formula because pumping is hard. And there is a crew who decided to do EP by preference (perceived as less hygienic? easier for public places? DHs' preference? it's a mytery) and they usually stop with the EBM at 12 weeks, because EPing is really hard.


----------



## PiePie

Did I kill the thread?

We were anti-TV until this pregnancy, which as you all know has been very hard on me physically. At present we do up to 1/2 hour to cover emergencies. I would say it happens an average of once every 2 to 3 weeks. I would like to make it less frequent but I don't think it's going to go away entirely, and I think I am mostly okay with that. Sometimes mommy needs her time! And DD is very demanding, which I love as a personality trait, but sometimes I just need to get something done, YK? And with newbaby coming, I imagine I may need more.

Do any of you do kids' exercise DVDs? A mom in the nabe with an older child but with similar parenting style/tastes in toys is selling the following for $5 each:

http://www.gaiam.com/product/yogakid...ges+3-6+dvd.do
http://www.gaiam.com/product/yogakid...ges+3-6+dvd.do
http://www.gaiam.com/product/yogakid...ges+3-6+dvd.do

If anyone here has seen them and/or liked them, please let me know.


----------



## Maela

Piepie we have not tried kids' exercise videos. I didn't even know they had those! We were also basically tv-free until my pg. It's just so hard!









Dr says DS is still too skinny and is having him see a nutritionist in November. And then in three months if he's still too small, a gastroenterologist (sp?). He's in the 1st percentile. I made the mistake of telling the dr that ds is nursing more now (_along_ with eating more solids (but he of course didn't hear that







)). So then he tells me that he might be nursing too much and I may have to wean. I told him that I bfed DD for 2.5 years and that weaning at a year seemed really strange to me.







Ugh! DS has never been a big eater (well not since after the first week - which is also coincidentally when he started taking his heart meds). He was just starting to eat more and look slightly chunkier, and then he was sick with a virus for two whole weeks and has just started eating more again in the past couple of days. So anyway, once again I go to the dr and feel like a failure as a mom.









Dh is getting really mad and wants to demand that he get off the heart medications now. The cardio wants to wean slowly. basically by letting DS grow out of the current doses. But how long will that take if he's gaining so slowly?! One of the side effects is loss of appetite!







I've read from other parents that their kids were weaned a little more abruptly.

I think I'm going to start writing down everything he eats so I'll have something to show the nutritionist.

I'm just so frustrated with this whole weight thing...


----------



## witchygrrl

Maela,
I so hear you on that. Rhea is finally 24 pounds at 27 months. I wouldn't wean him no matter what the doctor says--he's getting nutrients he might not otherwise get through food! And yeah, everytime Rhea gets sick, the appetite goes out the wndow....except for nursing.

I totally bet the medication is to blame. Hs he outgrown the condition? can you tell?








You are NOT a failure.


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchygrrl* 
Maela,
I so hear you on that. Rhea is finally 24 pounds at 27 months. I wouldn't wean him no matter what the doctor says--he's getting nutrients he might not otherwise get through food! And yeah, everytime Rhea gets sick, the appetite goes out the wndow....except for nursing.

I totally bet the medication is to blame. Hs he outgrown the condition? can you tell?








You are NOT a failure.

We won't know if he's outgrown the condition until he's off the medication.

Thanks for the sympathy.


----------



## accountclosed3

hi all! sorry i haven't been around much.

things at work are progressing very quickly. there's great movement--people leaving and people coming in. the web site will be launched soon, too, thank goodness.


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
hi all! sorry i haven't been around much.

things at work are progressing very quickly. there's great movement--people leaving and people coming in. the web site will be launched soon, too, thank goodness.

I'm glad to hear things are going so well for you!

Jaim is going poop in the potty 90% of the time and pee ~50%. He's signing potty sometimes and will walk to the bathroom if I say "lets go potty". It's so cute! Sometimes it seems though that he only signs potty so that he can go to the bathroom to wash his hands (he loves washing his hands!). I bought little underwear that he wears while we're at home. He seems to dislike being wet (unlike Maev who could care less at that age), and will take his diaper off if he's wet and that's all he has on.

He's also signing "more", "nurse" (milk), "all done", and we're working on "help." He says more, hi, mama, dada, and I think he's saying Maev sometimes, but it sounds like Mah.

I forgot how much I love this age!









Maev is really liking that she can actually play with her little brother a little bit now. She yells at him sometimes, but there hasn't been any pushing in a few weeks.







She seems to go in and out of phases of the stereotypical toddler resistance to anything I ask her to do. I'm working on staying calm and not raising my voice.

She's getting interested in reading. She goes through her books and finds words to try to sound out. It's so neat to watch. She's also wanting to count out loud with me a lot. I love watching her learn.
Her new cute thing is at bedtime when I lie down with her for a few minutes, she says, "Mama, I love you so so so so so so so so so so so so so so much." or "I like your hair. It looks so pretty."


----------



## PiePie

Wow, I come here so infrequently now that I had forgotten my password!!

*Maela*, I do not know that I agree with your doctor on the weight gain thing. I have 2 friends who are very well-informed, well-educated mothers, in one case much more pro-medical establishment than you are (wanted an epidural, would consider being induced) whose sons are entirely off the weight chart and have been for a long time and who have accepted virtually no intervention. In one case he is barely smaller than my DD (1/2 pound, maybe?) and would be on the weight chart if he were female. She nursed him until he was... 2 y, 6 mo or 2 y, 7 mo. He is an exceptional child -- crazy athletic and spirited and smart as a whip. He barely eats a thing -- lots of grazing with one big meal a day. My other friend's son "self-weaned" at 15 mos. and she did accept a referral from a nutritionist. Writing down everything he ate was very clarifying for her and for the doc -- he eats WAY more than most kids, in excess of 1200 cal/day at 12 mos. In both cases the mom, and in one case the dad, found their own baby growth charts and their sons were tracking their growth, which reassured the pediatricians a lot (all skinny but healthy adults with no brain damage). I also have one friend whose daughter was off the charts short and skinny -- although her physical milestones were delayed, she is now of high sch age and a certified genius (so no brain damage), and she nursed till 18 mos. when she "self-weaned" probably due to her mother's pregnancy. She barely ate a thing, I swear to God; I remember her preschool yrs when I think my DD isn't eating enough. Now she is very much on the weight chart, much to her chagrin.







All of these are only anecdotes, I know, but I would definitely get a second opinion before I would submit to very intrusive testing. Have you considered whether silent reflux might be playing a part? It does make a person feel full more quickly.


----------



## Maela

PiePie, thanks for the anecdotes! Still makes me feel better. I feel 90% that Jaim is just fine. He's meeting all his milestones in advance or on time and he's happy. I'm willing to meet with the nutritionist, but I am doubtful that he/she will give me any advice that I haven't heard about. I guess I'm kind of hoping that he/she will confirm that he looks fine and that I'm doing everything right.







The worst case scenario would be that she wouldn't know a think about extended bfing and would be pressuring me to wean the whole appointment.

Whatever happens, I am not weaning him before he's two. I know that for sure.

I know that my IL's said that the dr was always telling them to feed Dh more and more because he was skinny. When he was four they told him to give him a bowl of sugary cereal before bedtime every night.







So that's probably where ds gets it from. I was not a skinny baby.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Maela, I had to chime in: Jaim sounds brilliant and thriving to me. Signing, pottying.....he's only a few weeks older than Reece, I was shocked to remember that when I was reading about what his milestones are.


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
Maela, I had to chime in: Jaim sounds brilliant and thriving to me. Signing, pottying.....he's only a few weeks older than Reece, I was shocked to remember that when I was reading about what his milestones are.

Thank you. Most of the time I think he's totally fine, just a skinny baby who doesn't enjoy eating much. And then there are nights that I spend worrying that something must be wrong.







His cardiologist is going to call me on Monday about the results of his 24hr heart monitor thing. Dh is going to talk to her about weaning from the medication more quickly if the results are good. I guess we'll see...

And Happy (belated) 1st Birthday to Reece!!!!









did you guys do anything special?


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

As usual, Maela is the solid NMY contributor and the rest of us have been away for too long.

I've just come off a crazy month of running childbirth ed classes 2 nights a week for 4 weeks. It was a great success with awesome feedback so I'm pleased...but also pleased that it's over until next year now!

Life is great. The weather is getting warm. Spring is almost over, thus so is hayfever season! Sebby is delightful.

A relatively new friend asked me today if I'd attend her homebirth in April. I'm so excited. I've done all hospital births so far and only yesterday, I'd said to DP that I'd love to get my foot in the door of homebirth doula-ing and voila!

And on top of all that happiness and positivity, I'm still completely exhausted and desperate for a break which I won't get until at least Feb as I'm on call with births up 'til then.

I've also been having a big bout of new mama grief - have any of you experienced it this late in the game? All I really want is to go away without responsibility, without having to consider someone else, without consequence, for just 2 nights. I went to collect something from my mum's yesterday and at 1pm she was still in her PJ's and intending to stay on the couch reading papers and watching movies all day. I was insanely jealous. How do you move past this? Or don't you?


----------



## PiePie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 

I've also been having a big bout of new mama grief - have any of you experienced it this late in the game? All I really want is to go away without responsibility, without having to consider someone else, without consequence, for just 2 nights. I went to collect something from my mum's yesterday and at 1pm she was still in her PJ's and intending to stay on the couch reading papers and watching movies all day. I was insanely jealous. How do you move past this? Or don't you?

I never had this -- I was too caught up in the grief of leaving her to work outside the home. I did join a book club when she was 8 mos. old, so every month or so I visit with other moms without child in tow. DH thinks I need more of this and takes care of DD without bothering me (lots of other moms get texts that the kid won't go to sleep, etc. Not me. I just discover it when I get home!) Of course we talk about our kids more than the book.









In terms of a night away, what are your thoughts re Sebby and weaning? I know lots of moms who have done a night away, either for work or for pleasure. I have not yet, and won't until I am in labor. I didn't feel ready to leave her until a couple of mos. ago, and we have non-trivial concern that my parents couldn't manage her (she takes a lot of energy, and my mom is not in good health), and anyway DH would probably just get frustrated with me because I am so exhausted these days that a go go go mini vaca would be more like nap go nap. I can't really walk much either without bringing on horrible pains (contractions? ligaments? nerve compression? who knows, but it stops when I lie down, so it's not labor).

I am 36 w, 1 d. Totally busy applying for alternate schs for DD for her 4 yo yr. Have a TERRIFYING amt of work to wrap up before it's safe to go on maternity leave. No idea where I am going to find the energy for it. In the old days I would just hole myself up and pull and all-nighter but now...no mind-over-matter craziness left in me.


----------



## Maela

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
As usual, Maela is the solid NMY contributor and the rest of us have been away for too long.

Ugh. Doesn't that just mean that I have no life?
















Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
I've also been having a big bout of new mama grief - have any of you experienced it this late in the game? All I really want is to go away without responsibility, without having to consider someone else, without consequence, for just 2 nights. I went to collect something from my mum's yesterday and at 1pm she was still in her PJ's and intending to stay on the couch reading papers and watching movies all day. I was insanely jealous. How do you move past this? Or don't you?

I get that feeling for a couple of days about once a month! I really don't like it. It's usually accompanied by a bout of laziness. And some resentment towards Dh (who actually does a lot).

ETA: PiePie, I can't believe you're so far along! How exciting!


----------



## Maela

The results from DS's 24hr heart monitoring came back fine! I'm assuming we'll have to do it again in a few months when the cardio's lowered his medication doses again. She said she wants to leave the amounts alone until January.

I tried to do some research on Digoxin (the med that we think might be causing his poor appetite) online. found something that said it can cause aneroxia (sp?), loss of appetite, etc. in adults, but that in children the first sign that it's not good for the child is heart arrhythmia and other problems usually before appetite/weight problems. So maybe it's not the meds if his heart is sounding great.







I'm trying not to stress about his eating because I have a feeling DS is picking up on it.

*PiePie*, I'm finally reading _Sleepless in America_ (you recommended it right?). It's really good, thanks! I think it will help us.


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

That's great news Maela







- and I don't think you have no life - just a strong sense of loyalty, right?









I actually keep up most of the time but I'm usually reading on my iPhone so am reluctant to type anything on that tiny keyboard! My computer time is really limited because I can't do it with small person around - or he wants in!

And speaking of small person being around all the time - he seems to be weaning from his daytime nap. Eek! His naps only just got somewhat reliable when he started sleeping at night and already he's dropping them? He's only 22months. And he only sleeps 10hours at night. And he's a nightmare by 3pm when he doesn't nap. After no nap yesterday, we tried an earlier bedtime last night which he was happy with but was then up for the day at 5am and I'm not really keen to play that game! Any suggestions folks?

Maybe I should brush up on Sleepless in America. It is a good book and has definitely helped us.
*
PiePie* - I can't believe that you've never felt that 'old self' grief? Especially as you are someone so driven in your career and a slightly older mum too, which, in my experience, can intensify the new mother shock and grief.

I have no intention of actually going away - I can't because I'm on call for births up until xmas, but also because I'm not ready to leave DS at night unless it's for a birth. He's still very attached to nursing during the day - too attached for my liking - he wants to nurse every time I sit down and tries to drag me to the couch a thousand times a day as well. It's making me want to wean when he's two even though philosophically, I'd like to go a bit longer... Not that I can imagine being able to wean when he's 2 - such is his intense addiction!

And on that note, i have a boy pulling at me crying 'boo boo, a boo boo, please!' ttyl


----------



## PiePie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
*
PiePie* - I can't believe that you've never felt that 'old self' grief? Especially as you are someone so driven in your career and a slightly older mum too, which, in my experience, can intensify the new mother shock and grief.

l

The weird thing for me is that I lose my career drive when I started TTC'ing. I would like it back, but it only comes back in small spurts when I absolutely need it to, like on deadline. But by and large I am not that person anymore. I feel like a part of me is lost or broken but I also have tons of trouble valuing any of that stuff any more? It's a big problem for me. I don't want to be working because it pays the bills but I just don't have that push any more. I think I am too stretched to find the passion. Or too burned by past treatment by employers to risk putting in the passion?? Not sure. It's bad, though, but it does mean I don't really miss the pre-kid days because I wouldn't really want to be working late on some saving the world project, I would rather flee early on the excuse/reality that I need to make the school pickup. Saw Fair Game this past weekend (our 5th wedding anniversary!!) and saw the high-powered career woman in the first half of the movie and was a mix of envy (because that kind of drive and success would be DH's ideal DP, I secretly suspect -- although not really because then he would have to do more domestic labor) and just an honest realization that I wouldn't want to be traveling away from my kids.

Mostly I feel like I look down on the values of my pre-parents lifestyle, in that work just doesn't feel as transcendent as parenting. Which means I have lost true connections with all of my non-parent friends, becasue they still think that promotions, raises, etc., are the meaning of life -- or in most cases, enacting social change is -- but it all feels very distant to me. And I am sure they think that DD's intellectual leaps and latest moods are petty too.

I do kind of hope and trust that my love of my work will come back to me, but that my children will always come first, but maybe not in such an all-consuming way. I have never really not loved my work and Marx was right that we need to to be fully human. By which I don't mean just paid work, but since I do have to work for pay, I need to love it. I do have a friend from another parents' list whose kids' daycare/Montessori sch almost folded, she took it over and basically ran a school from her pub interest law office for 2 years (doing mostly sch stuff and little law) and now she is a super high-powered gay rights lawyer who does not think about her kids -- she thinks about peer harassment when she is supposed to be thinking about peer harassment. Must be nice. But honestly making wishlists for DD's Xmas and my soon-to-be-homeschooling (while on maternity leave) is much more fun for me right now.

But mostly I guess I was responding to your twist about wanting down time. Before kids I did not give myself much downtime. I worked 6 days a week at least, always until 8 or 8:30 at the earliest, and since I have been with DP, the other day was a whirlwind of cultural activity (because that's his style). So it was probably years (7 years?) before DD's birth when I actually had a day in my pajamas watching movies. I just always had the never-ending work that spills over into the time that normal people consider life, and before that I had sch, which of course has no built-in boundaries, and you know I took sch VERY seriously since about age 12. Which isn't to say I don't appreciate that parenting means less personal time than working -- at work I get to go the bathroom unencumbered, for example, and I can usually get some internet time in except on a truly terrible day, because I have a desk job (if I were, say, teaching, OMG it would be rough right now).

DD's sleep has gone to hell this week, with bedtime delayed so badly I don't want to tell anyone. Monday night I had a friend visiting from London, and of course she wanted to visit with the friend instead of go to bed. I should have either told the friend she couldn't come (but that seemed bad, since she is all the way from London), or I should have gone out to meet her away from DD (but that seemed bad because I was in a lot of pain from BH ctx and I needed to lie down, which can be hard to do in a restaurant (although trust me I have). I really hope that the change in the clocks buys us at least an hour.

I have read that women who have their first in their late 30s tend to miss pre-kids life more, but for me it was sort of the opposite, I had already become a little disillusioned by the lawyer life and I knew I needed something else too. DH probably has some of that, though -- he loves travel, but when he was very young he had no $, whereas since DD was born he has been making actual $, so he feels like now that he could travel kids wreck those dreams, because let's be honest DD doesn't want to spend 5 days straight in the Louvre or the Hermitage, and I am not willing to take an infant to a developing country (subject to revision, but that's where I am right now).

so in summary, it's not at all like grief, it's more like being lost. i don't want the old but the new is not quite right yet either, because my head is not in the work game as much as i wish it were.


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## Angelorum

MMM I am having the same problem with the computer time being impossible while the little guy is around. I manage to read plenty, but typing doesn't happen unless he's napping or bugging dh at his computer.

PiePie- I can't believe how close you're getting! It seems like you were just beginning this pregnancy. I wish you strength and energy to get everything done before the birth.

Maela- that's great news about the monitoring results. Jaim sounds just fine to me too, just small. How's the appetite lately?

Things here have been kind of stressful. Westley is still not sleeping well, I can't get him to sleep more than 9 hours on a good night. He either wakes up really early in the morning, or he's up in the middle of the night for a few hours. He's also still in the throes of teething, with not much to show for it. He has always been a really slow teether. I'm hoping that these most recent sleep issues have all been about teeth, because if they are, I may be getting a break soon. The lack of night sleep has left me needing naps during the day, and mostly the only opportunity for that is during Westley's nap, which is when I should be doing my homework. Because of that, I am weeks late on my composition project ( I should really be working on it now) and I really should get started on the next one. The scary part to me is that I don't even really care. I was so excited about going back to school, the last year I attended I had so much fun and loved my classes. Now I find myself day dreaming about being just a sahm, playing with Westley, and sewing and knitting and actually keeping the house clean. So, no new mom grief here, I'm thinking wistfully of the days when he was tiny! And I've got baby fever. Which is absolutely nuts, I already have a baby! He's 15 months now, and I know some are ready for the next one by now, but I always wanted about 3 years between kids. Not to mention the fact that I haven't even gotten my period back yet, so even if I was really ready, I likely couldn't get pregnant anyway. It doesn't help that Westley still freaks out when I leave for class. He's gotten better when I leave him with dh, but screams for the whole 1.5 hours if he's with a babysitter. So I have guilt for that. And then there's dh. I'm really worried about his health. Things have been declining for him for a long time, but they've recently been going faster. So I worry that all the extra time he's putting in taking care of Westley while I'm at school is making things worse. We don't know what's wrong with him, we won't have insurance until January, and even when he's having really worrisome symptoms (low pulse ox, no stamina, mild pressure in his chest) he won't go to the doctor, because he doesn't want to screw us over financially by finding out he needs heart surgery or something before we have insurance coverage.

Sorry to be so negative, I think I just needed to put it all out there. Maybe now I can focus on getting some work on my project in.


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## Maela

*Angelorum,* I'm sorry to hear about your Dh. That's scary. Hopefully, in Jan when you get insurance again, he'll decide to go to the dr.







I hope things improve for you guys soon. It stinks when it feels like everything is going wrong at once.

We saw the nutritionist yesterday. She was very nice and didn't make me feel like I was a bad parent. She thought I was doing everything right except that she thought I should decrease the time I spend nursing him. Not going to happen. Isn't breastmilk the best source of calories/fat, even at this age? And it's not like he's nursing, nursing, nursing and that's why he isn't eating. I offer food A LOT. Anyway, I'm not going to worry about it. I guess I'll just lie when we see her again in a couple of months. I'll just tell her we're slowly cutting down ....or something. Ugh.


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## TwilightJoy

Wow, total new look!

Just popping in to say hi and that I'm still a NMY and still reading along. I do miss you ladies and I hope you're all doing well!


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## accountclosed3

in hearing about these petite kids, i'm reminded again of how *huge* hawk is. LOL i didn't realize it. but he's about 40 lbs and 3 ft tall. So, as always tall, but now a fairly normal weight for his height. he's larger than all of the kids i know his age, and larger than a lot of 2.5 yr olds. he's as tall as some 3 yr olds.

it has given us a bit of trouble. people expect him to be more capable/mature, and when he acts like a 2 yr old, and his normal ridiculously exuberant self, he ends up just bowling other kids over--even those older than him. he is full throttle when awake, goodness knows. keeps me on my toes.

i'm looking forward to our christmas vacation. there will be one more adult around.


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## ~Shanna~

What the heck happened here? And why do I have a picture of a tree next to my name, which I've never seen? Uh, back to work, no time to read about the changes.......

I miss you ladies!


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## accountclosed3

they updated to a different system, of course!  i kind of like my assigned tree.


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## PiePie

Gawking that Hawk is 40 lbs. Not sure if DD has tipped the scale to 30 yet -- she has at my MWs' office, but their scale is usually 3 lbs. over everyone else's. So by that measure she is 29. But closing in on 30. Doubt there will be much weight added -- mostly length for the next months/year I'm guessing. She's a little tall and a little lean, but not extreme on either end. FWIW, my brother was a BIG toddler -- we called him the "lil linebacker" but by age 3 (maybe 3 12/) he was tall and skinny, which he continues to be. Not skinny skinny, but definitely a basketball build and not an American football build.


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## MujerMamaMismo

Yes, DS is also a big one. 35lbs and some change, too. He's tall as well as stocky. And we definitely battle with peoples expectations of him!


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## Maela

Maev is somewhere between 30 and 35 lbs. Pretty average I think. Jaim is 18.5 lbs.


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## PiePie

my parents had that issue with my brother (big for his age). exacerbated by very advanced verbal skills, but not at all above age expectations with regard to social/emotional maturity. what worked best for him was a montessori setting where the expectation that kids would be at different levels of progression in different skill sets is deeply ingrained. so he could be a fluent reader at 3 with absolutely zero patience and that was totally normal for them.

i am finally on maternity leave. it was a huge drama to get there. let's just say that the stereotype of the career woman who wants to control birth has a grain of truth around here. everyone seemed to think that if i would just sched a c then the baby definitely wouldn't come before then! off for the next 6 1/2 mos. only 3 1/2 of which are paid, which is a PROBLEM, but whatever, i can't be worried about that right now, who knows where we will be financially in 3 mos., life happens. i have a gut feeling i am going to have the baby tomorrow; so does dd. i really should sleep for 2 days as i have pulled 2 consecutive all-nighters but i am too crazy wired to sleep.

really, no idea what to do with myself now that i am on maternity leave. moving is too difficult for me to do any cleaning, for instance. it's a weird state.


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## cking

Hmm, Nicholas is 23.5 lbs, Josephine is maybe 27.5. Kinda the opposite of Maev and Jaim. Anyway, I can understand ppl expecting too much of a big boy. For DD's part, I think we often expect too much of her based on her verbal skills alone. (and then, I guess maybe she gets confused when she runs into kids who are clearly bigger/older who can't speak on her level.)

I had to LOL at Shanna's post b/c I was just thinking the same thing. I guess it's been a while since I logged on b/c I hadn't seen this before today.

Congrats on maternity leave Piepie!

Quote:


> really, no idea what to do with myself now that i am on maternity leave.


You should snuggle. With DD, with DH, and just alone. Most importantly alone, I think.


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## Maela

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cking*
> 
> For DD's part, I think we often expect too much of her based on her verbal skills alone. (and then, I guess maybe she gets confused when she runs into kids who are clearly bigger/older who can't speak on her level.)
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> really, no idea what to do with myself now that i am on maternity leave.
> 
> 
> 
> You should snuggle. With DD, with DH, and just alone. Most importantly alone, I think.
Click to expand...

We had/have the exact same issues with DD and her verbal skills.

And I agree with cking about the snuggling and alone time! I also would play play play with Dd!


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## MujerMamaMismo

*PiePie* watch


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## TwilightJoy

Happy Thanksgiving to the NMY and the Grads!


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## PiePie

still pregnant. technically due today! had huge scare that my waters had broken but apparently i misdiagnosed myself. phew.

lots of trouble sleeping. beyond exhausted emotionally but just can't sleep.

moderately dreading 3 yo bday party tomorrow where i will get to hear every mother's story of how she started her own labor. not that i am happy to be pregnant, this has not been fun for me, but ugh. feeeling a little antisocial, i guess.

huge drama around childcare for dd during the birth, which i guess was good to discover on a trial run to the hosp. basically the moms who said they would take dd meant for dd to get switched over to someone else if the whole thing took more than 12 hours; the biomom confesses she has blocked her whole labor out; no freaking kidding!! switching over would involve our dragging a convertible carseat on pub transit, so that second family could use it. i think they want to switch because they are concerned that dd will mess up their kid's sleep, which is somewhat reasonable to expect, given that they define a missed nap or 30 mins late on bedtime as catastrophic, i do think having a friend over would be likely to derail to that degree, and they are willing to suffer one derailment but no more. carseat schlepping is not appealing.... so rethinking that whole plan. good thing i had 3 different families lined up, huh? and a fourth if the baby waits till monday to make an appearance. fortunately i have a very flexible child.

behavioral issue with dd: demanding to be carried all the time. she is 3 and perfectly capable (physically), we think, of walking. it gets on dh's last nerve, because it strikes him as unhealthy/weak and he will just say no; he claims she fights it more strongly if i am there (which may be true). i tend to start a power struggle, realize i am in a power struggle, back off and carry her for a very small distance, and then put her down, which mostly seems to work -- not sure if it is about attaching, or some sort of neurological reset (read about in a GD thread), or a version of playing baby/regression. whose 3 yos walk or otherwise self-propel (scooter, balance bike) exclusively? and how much walking is in your average day? we are car-free and near subway but not right on it (not like step outside and there you are, as one would be with, say, an attached garage), in a hilly part of town. specifically, we are 2 blocks from the subway.


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## Angelorum

Hang in there piepie! I remember feeling less and less social as my due date neared. I think it's pretty normal. And yikes re the childcare drama! Seriously? 12 hours? Did they expect you to be in and out of the hospital in 12 hours? Oy. Glad it's getting worked out now.


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## MujerMamaMismo

You've all seen facebook, right? I'm dying to hear what sounds like a thrilling birth story....


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## Angelorum

!! How do I get in the facebook group? I want the news!


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## Maela

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo*
> 
> You've all seen facebook, right? I'm dying to hear what sounds like a thrilling birth story....


Yes it sounded quick! *Congrats PiePie!!*


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## Maela

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Angelorum*
> 
> !! How do I get in the facebook group? I want the news!


I PMed you.


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## Angelorum

Thanks Maela! I just requested to join. Not sure who okays people, but my facebook photo looks like a painting.


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## ~Shanna~

nak

PiePie, I'm dying for the birth story. I hope you're all doing well, especially L.


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## Maela

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Shanna~*
> 
> nak
> 
> PiePie, I'm dying for the birth story. I hope you're all doing well, especially L.












Even the nak part.


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## Maela

It's been too long; someone needs to say something!









I don't have much to say except that we're having a rough time with DD right now. Lots of outright defiance, pushing our buttons and laughing about it kind of stuff. It's weird. I'm trying to be understanding, calm, and firm all at once, but it's hard. Even Dh lost it with her a couple of days ago. He never yells at her, but this time he did, and he felt horrible afterward.







Today was better than it has been in a few days, so maybe it'll start improving.

Also, Santa Claus. *sigh* Dh and I agreed that we did not want to do Santa with our kids because we both were devastated when we found out our parents had lied to us when we were kids. Also, we kind of feel like Santa makes Christmas all about receiving and makes kids forget about giving or spending time with family or the changing of the seasons (what Christmas means to us - we're not Christian). We've been telling DD that Santa isn't real, but that everyone likes to pretend he is for fun. Like fairies, Mickey Mouse, etc. Tonight she got sad (almost started crying) and told us that she wanted Santa to be "alive." We asked her if she would like us all to pretend that he is real from now on, and she said yes. So I told her about how some people pretend that Santa brings gifts to kids and that I would make sure Santa brought her one (we get her a couple of gifts, but never 'from Santa'). And I told her how some people leave out milk and cookies for Santa, and we could do that too. She was very excited. Poor thing. I'm so confused as to what the right thing to do is. For now, we're going to go ahead and do the whole Santa thing. I was so worried that my kids would be mad at me for lying to them about Santa. But now I'm worried that they'll be mad at us for ruining the fun. You just can't win.


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## cking

Hi Maela! I miss you and all everyone here. I wish I had more time to post because I have a lot to say.

Sorry about what you're dealing with with DD right now. It sounds pretty rough, but probably pretty normal? I know we have had several rough patches like that where we get very aggravated with DD. I am guessing there is a pretty big developmental leap around 3 ½.

Oh, Santa is a tough one. I didn't think we'd really "do" Santa either. My sister never did, as she is a pretty conservative, religious person. I think she only told her kids about St Nicholas, but never told them he came through the chimney or whatever. But Josephine found out about him anyway - I think she saw a picture of MIL with him, so she was very curious, and then there were things like the Frosty the Snowman dvd. But, eh, I have to remind myself of how I felt about pop culture when I was a kid. I was convinced that the only reason we didn't do or have all of the things my peers did/had was because of class/income (as opposed to a moral thing, or say, the fact that my parents were a generation older than theirs&#8230 so I became pretty obsessed with it.

So, I don't know, we're just kind of rolling with the Santa thing. I won't go to the mall to see him, but there is a local mansion that has a really good Santa so I've taken her to see him there. (also kinda helps when we tell St Nicholas stories, given her brother's name. ) Her school went to see a comm. college production of "twas the night before christmas" the other day, so she got a huge dose of SC then. Really, I don't think it should be any different than any other story, but it does bug me that we blow it way out of proportion.

Anyway, I have heard some people say they have their kids leave something for Santa to take to other children (in need), so maybe that is a way to make it less about getting?

Gotta go&#8230;


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## Maela

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cking*
> Anyway, I have heard some people say they have their kids leave something for Santa to take to other children (in need), so maybe that is a way to make it less about getting?
> 
> Gotta go&#8230;


I love that idea! I think we'll use it. thanks!


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## accountclosed2

I don't usually post here, but I did a bit a long time ago. Hope it is okay that I butt in.









I grew up in Sweden, where Santa doesn't come down the chimney but through the front door mid-afternoon Christmas Eve. Part of the whole thing is the idea that Dad says he needs to go buy a paper and leaves and then Santa arrives in his absence. And a lot of modern Christmas stories, films, tv etc make a big joke out of that, so by the time kids start school they just know that Santa isn't real, without having anyone telling them. I remember being 5 and, with my cousins trying to work out who had dressed up as Santa!

Anyway, the way we're going with DD is having Santa as a story (many stories), just like others, just like the teacher at our Steiner playgroup tells a story about baby Jesus (we're not religious, nor is she or anyone else in the group except a Jewish family, but everyone agreed that a Christmas Story is nice, as a story). What I don't like is lying to DD or trying to make her believe. As long as it is all stories, pictures, dolls and words, it is all in her mind, and she can believe in whatever she want. And I'll respect it and indulge it. She has a lot of imaginary friends, and while I won't prompt her about them, or make suggestions, I'm happy to go along with her if she claims her friends are coming for a visit and we need to let them in. And I'll play along. But it has to be run by her, not imposed by me.

So I won't take her to "see Santa". Or suggest she writes a letter for Santa or listen to silly people on the radio who are so excited to "get an interview with Santa". And I really hate it when people ask "So what are you getting from Santa?". When I was little gifts where usually not from Santa, he just brought them. It would say who they were from on the gift (as we got older, teens and older, as a joke, a gift could be from "Gym Santa" or "Reading Santa" or "Gardening Santa or "Travel Santa").

We talk about Santas (plural), but we use the Swedish word, tomte or tomtar. And we make Santa decorations, read Santa stories, but the gifts under the tree are from Mamma & Daddy (in my family we stopped having a dress up Santa bring the presents when I was mid-teens, and my youngest cousins were terrified - it kind of spoiled the fun).

This year we've let DD choose presents for her grandparents and uncle and aunt at the Trade Aid shop (among the stuff that cost a few dollars). Last year she drew everyone pictures. By next year I'm sure she'll be making some crafty things.


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## MujerMamaMismo

I'm so frustrated with this new MDC set up. I can't edit anything and it won't let me move the cursor about. Thus, I can't contribute all that I want to contribute because I'm a scatter brain and without the option of moving around the page and editing, I won't manage anything meaningful. Grrr. I can't even hit return. Anyone else having issues? Perhaps it's a Mac issue?


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## Sihaya

MMM, I had that same problem with the cursor and general wonkiness in the reply box until I switched to BB Code Editor.

To do that, go to your profile and click on Edit Account Details near the top right, then scroll down to Site Preferences. There is a drop down box to choose your Preferred Editor Type. Select BB Code Editor then click save. It should work better for you instantly at that point. If not, I would post in the Questions & Suggestions forum with your specific computer and browser information and someone there will be able to help you. It's really frustrating to have something to say and be physically unable to get it to post.


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## TwilightJoy

*Congratulations, PiePie!!! *









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maela*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo*
> 
> You've all seen facebook, right? I'm dying to hear what sounds like a thrilling birth story....
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it sounded quick! *Congrats PiePie!!*
Click to expand...











I'm not friends with PiePie on facebook, so I'm still wanting to hear about PiePie's birth story!

PiePie, are you around?

Or is anyone else willing to fill a girl in?


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## MujerMamaMismo

*Sihaya* - Thanks so much. What a relief. I was getting so frustrated.

*Twilight Joy* - I think PiePie has been pretty flat out adjusting to parenting two. None of us know much, except that babe arrived pretty quickly!


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## MujerMamaMismo

Oh and the Santa thing...interesting. I have always been into the idea of doing Santa honestly. I struggle with the lying aspect a bit. But it seems that childcare got to Sebby before I did and he's sooooooooo into Santa so we're playing along this year. He's a bit young to understand anyway so we have another year to firm up our approach but I think I'm softening - the dream/fantasy element of it is really thrilling to observe, far more so than I'd anticipated...

Of course, we're not Christian either so it's important to me to create some meaningful ritual and tradition around xmas that's more about family and less about getting stuff!

So much grown up stuff to think about these days... I still don't feel old enough!


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## Maela

Okay, even I've run out of things to say.









Happy New Year!!

This year I really want to focus on worrying and complaining less. And spending more time outside and/or getting exercise.

We're having some friend drama here. It's not fun. I hate having someone be mad at me, even if I didn't do anything wrong.


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## PiePie

Hi friends. I have had my hands full!! I am sorry I didn't write sooner. DS arrived on his duedate after only an hour and a half of labor! I had been really strongly expecting babe (gender unknown before birth) to come early, because DD was 6 days early, 2d babies are on average earlier, and my body was not tolerating the pregnancy well at all... (severe hyperemesis into 3rd tri, massive mood swings toward the end, massive pains all the freaking time, etc.) So when Thanksgiving came and went without our new blessing I was beside myself with grouchiness, not to mention insomnia. I had to pull 2 all-nighters for work the week before I left and somehow that got my body into not sleeping, like I was permanently ON and couldn't turn myself OFF. Then I had a night with 2 gushes of what did not smell at all like pee to me in the middle of the night. No ctx. Less pain in week 39 than throughout the whole freaking pregnancy. I had taken off work, was too disabled to really tool around the city with DD (couldn't even walk to playground 3 blocks away, not that the weather was specially inviting for that either). I called MW in the morning and reported the gushes. She said probably amniotic fluid and that, if so, it started the clock on my birthing venue -- I had to go into active labor within 24 hours of teh first gush. Kicked myself for accurately reporting time. Took long shower, went out to brunch with DD and DH, took DD to playground, where I tried my darnedest to run around and induce labor. Climbed huge dinosaur structures, etc. Nothing. This after having had severely painful Braxton Hicks from 24 weeks on. So I decided to go into the birth center and have my MW check to see if it really was amniotic fluid or not (having had third gush late in afternoon). Then we had huge drama over care of DD during my and DH's potential stay in hosp -- even though I planned to come home to labor until I was very far along, I also knew I would be going on pitocin at midnight if labor didn't start. I got all worked up and decided that pitocin was the slippery slope to a worst case scenario. So DD's BFF's moms, who had said they would do "anything" for me, chose that moment to clarify that they meant anything for no more than 12 hours, and then we were responsible for transporting her to a new caregiver! this would have involved transporting a convertible carseat on pub transp (because we use subway but caregiver number 2 uses car) and all sorts of drama. I was livid and extremely anxious. So we got there, much subterfuge so that hosp would not know I was there (did not want to go all the way to MW's office because it was just too far to come with DD if we then had to backtrack to any caregiver). MW checked and it was just urine! all that over peeing in my pants!

Then I went home and slept, finally, and woke up to mild lower back pain, whatever, less pain than for months, I tell you. I decided to pee thinking it would relieve the BH. Then I felt this intense pressure in my vagina and rectum. Apparently it was DS descending! Fast! I was insisting I woudl labor at home, that I wasn't very far along. MW and friend (new friend) who was taking DD were like, oh no, we're coming over. Thank God MW had moved to near me, and friend is in excellent shape (she sprinted the whole way), because things were happening fast, although I couldn't believe it. MW insisted we had to go to hosp "right now." I decided I wanted to labor in my own bed. She was like, no. DD was still there and freaked because I decided I wanted to bite down, bit DH (broke skin), and then insisted on biting a baby teether, and she was like, "No! you can't! That's baby's!" she then brought me my childhood doll (she has a matching one) to hold to help with the pain and a photo of herself to look at during labor (to remember her). The whole DD hand-off was not as planned at all -- no details -- just use your judgment, I trust you, do what you need to do. This friend has DS 2 mos. younger than DD, but her parenting style is not purely AP and in theory she would not have been my first choice (sleep trained DS, uses sugar and TV as bribes), but in practice she was a trooper, a godsend, to whom I owe much of my peace of mind about DS's birth. Also, DD had wanted to be there after transition, and this friend was like, no way -- her DH had witnessed his 2 younger sisters' homebirths as a child and considers himself traumatized by them. I tried to explain that this was different -- DD would have her own support person (this friend) and would be free to leave (which her DH wasn't as a child) but she was deadset against it, based on her own traumatic and precipitous delivery of her DS. So I was 5-6 cm when MW arrived at 10 am, took cab -- thank God this was Sunday morning and there was zero traffic!! I was in my MW's lap in the backseat, and she was coaching me not to push -- I just really wanted to push. Speed limits were exceeded, red lights were run, etc. We saw DD's pediatrician leaving as we entered and he said "have fun" and I was like huh? I couldn't sit in a wheelchair without severe pain (the bumps!) and there was no time for a stretcher.

So I got on the bed was determined to be fully dilated. Pushed twice and water broke -- meconium everywhere. Nurse attending was a HB MW (now working as a nurse to have regiular hours and never be on call when she has kids -- boy do I get that) and agreed with my MW to violate hosp policy and not transfer me out of the BC based on the meconium. She said it was the worst she had seen in 10 years. SHe gave me some peppermint and something else (chamomile?) aromatherapy that helped a lot. Pushing DD out honestly had not hurt at all, which was why I agreed to let DD come witness it at that point, but DS was something else! Burning, tearing, and so freaking fast. No one looked at a clock but the estimate was 11:05. He had the cord around his neck but I didn't know that till after the fact. Ped was on hand to suction him but took one look at how alert he was and passed him to me. (I was protesting his going to the ped in the first place, but the mec was bad, even DH could see that.) He was alert right from the start and didn't have a conehead at all -- just beautiful. Tons of dark (black) hair, compared to his sister, who was virtually bald for much of her infancy. Eyes pretty dark too -- more gray than blue.

I had some pretty severe afterpains, which made me think I was hallucinating. I expected sensations/pain during labor but with DD the afterpains had been mild -- less than my menstrual cramps. This was like a 9.5 on a scale of 10. I was freaking out.

Friend brought DD to visit, and she was thrilled with her "baby bruhver." I was a little concerned -- DH, DD, and I had all expected a girl, just because DD had been a girl, and for about 3 weeks before the birth DD had been saying if it was a boy she wanted to send it back. Gulp. But she is super thrilled with everything about him, extremely affectionate (everyone else thinks we allow too much of that, but I think even if she is a little rough with him I would rather have this reaction than any other, and I don't want to demonize her love for her brother), obsessed with a proper latch, having me pump enough milk before going back to work (I can't face the pump), . Also feeling displaced and having more tantrums than she ever did at 2. DD could not stay the night in the birth ctr with us, so that separation (back to my friend's house) was hard. Bribery was involved. My poor friend was horrified that DD woke up twice in the night. I was shocked that she went to sleep independently (with friend's DS) a full hour and half before her usual bedtime. But anyway all is forgiven, I hope. After wakeup #2 friend coslept with DD, which I know is beyond the call of duty because she coslept with her DS for 9 mos. and hated every minute of it. Somehow friend got DD to sch the next day (she lacked all requisite security badges) and I think the routine was good for DD. Unfortunately one of her close friends bit her that day, which was probably not what she needed. (She got herself cleaned up, asked to go give friend a kiss to reconcile, and then bit her back! Teacher confided she thought it was funny, the whole ruse leading to getting back at her.)

Unrelated to the bite, we pulled DD out of sch, or rather severely downsized her schedule -- now she goes only 2 short days a week. This is sort of my chance to be a SAHM. I would like for her to be in sch 3 days a week but we can't afford it. She is happy to be home with us and has a really hard time going to sch and leaving me with DS. She rejects all "special time" with me and wants her brother to be there too!! Even though she likes it, I think she is weirded out by the schedule change -- she has been going to that sch 4 days a week for 2 + years. I am homeschooling/unschooling for the rest of the time, although I found that next to impossible for the first 3 weeks postpartum.

Physically I had a harder recovery than with DD. I guess because this time I got 2 2nd degree tears. My unschooling plan involves "using the city" and its cultural resources to follow her interests but we couldn't really do anything when I couldn't walk without pain. now we are getting better at it although she is surprising us by demanding a lot of downtime at home. She is reading tons (I swear she jumped a grade level a few days before Christmas) and I think that leap is a big part of her acting out. She was hiding her reading until her brother was born and now she si motivated to read to him (and I fear was hobbled by perfectionism before and didn't want to read to us the parents). So we don't really have a routine yet. Have found our library storyhour, though, so that's a start. She is also obsessed with a game that is like tic tac toe but more nuanced called Gobblers Gobblet -- the hit present under the tree this December.

DS may be having GI issues. I saw a GI this week for him and was advised (I think ordered is the word) to give up caffeine and alcohol. Alcohol isn't frequent enough to be the cause of the problem but I am giving that up just in case. I refuse to accept that it is "colic" without a cause -- he is clearly in physical pain every evening (and at other times occasionally). It kills me to think that my vices may have been the cause. I am also entertaining a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance/overactive letdown theory but GI poo pood that (not well educated re BFing, IMHO). So I am missing my stimulants/treats and block feeding (although I forget which side I'm on -- how bad is that?) although i don't want my supply to tank out altogether, yk? Still, he is gaining well -- 10 lbs. 10 oz at 5 weeks is pretty awesome, right? He was 7 lbs, 6 oz at birth.

Up too late, must sleep, tomorrow is going to be very early for DD's dance class...


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## PiePie

*Maela*, We had the laughing when being told NO by a very angry Mommy -- she ran away from me on wet/slippery subway platform. It really infuriated me! Definitely a parenting low point for me. Glad someone else's 3 yo is doing it, in a perverse way. (meaning it's normal and my child is not a monster -- i have had my moments of thinking i had massively screwed up by being so UP).


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## MujerMamaMismo

*PiePie -* so lovely to hear from you. I'm fascinated by the transition from one to two babes so thank you for sharing some of your thoughts and struggles. I think it's extraordinary that you could even be thinking of making such a conscious homeschooling effort so early in the postpartum game. I hope you're treating yourself kindly. And congratulations again!









I am dealing with some intense feelings that oscillate between anxiety and rage to do with serious MIL issues. I had a screaming fit (at DP) that I honestly had no control over yesterday and I am not usually a screamer. It ended in a 20 minute panic attack which sucked. DP is being very tepid on the whole issue and there's a bit of saying one thing and doing another, going on which infuriates me even further. I get that she's stuck in the middle but I need her to choose us and she seems to have a lot of trouble doing it. Blah, blah, blah. I'm so sick of feeling this way. I had a bit of a vent on a MIL hate thread - read it if you care to see inside my fuzzy head!
http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1198218/anyone-truly-hate-their-mother-in-law/80#post_16169759

Hope you're all enjoying 2011

xx


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## witchygrrl

Sorry that I have been so absent from this thread!

PiePie, what a story! And how interesting that your two births were about as different from each other as could be. You are amazing!

MMM, oh my gods. I read your MIL post, and she sounds like my step-mother, who shut my entire family out. I am so sorry. Has she acted weirdly toward you and your family before? Is this her homophobia coming out?


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## Maela

Yay, you all are posting again! I was afraid it was over. 

*PiePie*, it's so good to hear from you! Wow, what a birth! And I thought mine was fast at 3.5 hours! Congratulations again! I'm so glad L likes her new baby brother. How long are you staying home for?

Friend drama is resolved mostly. I think I handled it well (I'm not good at confrontations or sticking up for myself).

DD is starting to sleep a little better and has become her (mostly







) sweet self again. She's also now definitely a size four when just two months ago she was totally a size three. So I think it was a huge growth spurt that she was going through that might have caused the weird behavior.

DS is not sleeping well. But since he's still sleeping with us it's not that big of a deal. He's starting to say lots of words and knows a lot of the animal sounds. It's SO cute!

DH and I are working out every other day (switching off). I'm so proud of myself. I really would like to get back to prebaby weight, but I'm afraid to eat less because then my supply might drop and I really don't want DS to wean until he's at least two. So I'm sticking to exercising for now.

off to read MMM's MIL story...


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## Maela

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maela*
> 
> off to read MMM's MIL story...


She sounds wonderful MMM!









My MIL is pretty great. My only problem with her is that she gossips and is somewhat of a drama queen. But I really can't complain.


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## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *witchygrrl*
> 
> Is this her homophobia coming out?


Yes - and I'm confused, is the answer to that question. She's always been pretty great about us and loved me up until DS was born. Since then she's been pretty luke warm on me. It's been the experience of those around me that when families have been less than thrilled by their kids sexuality, having children has melted away all the bigotry and discomfort but I can see how the opposite could be true, in that it's all a bit too confronting for her. I think also, she finds it hard to love DS is the way she expected to love her first grandchild which of course, is not going to change until she actually gets to know him. I'm also really angry with SIL who should be our biggest ally - who has always had relationships with women until she met her current partner and is now basking in the privilege and heteronormativity of it all. I'm just so furious about everything. And I'm getting more and more frustrated with DP who talks and complains and is endlessly distressed about the situation but never ever goes through with confronting her mother.

As for MIL's treatment of my family - she's always been a bit intimidated but not usually so intentionally rude. We're a family of strong city women and she's a fairly insular country type but it's been 10 years and she's an adult. It's time she got over herself. My family are nothing but accommodating and generous despite the very clear cultural divide.
Meh. As usual, I'm boring myself.

All that said, I'm pretty excited about being an Aunty for the first time and that little girl is so very precious. I didn't expect to be as into her as I am. (But now I'm super excited for my own sister to have a baby which she says isn't going to happen for another 5-10 years so I better put that to the back of my head!)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maela*
> 
> Yay, you all are posting again! I was afraid it was over.


Me too - and I wonder if we are going to fade away, still? Please let's make sure we're all facebook friends.


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## ~Shanna~

nak

This will teach me to stay away so long. I have no idea where to begin.

Ah, but I do! Pie Pie! And your amazing uterus! Congratulations! Yours is an amazing birth story - I can't fathom of having such a fast labor. How is DH adjusting to everything?

MMM, I read your link and it really sounds like she wants you to know she's angry, that she's trying to "teach" you something. The hostility isn't just your run-of-the-mill "I'm awkward and don't know what to do". It could help in whatever convo you have with her to ask if that's true, it puts the burden on her while trying to be compassionate that she's clearly distressed because she wasn't always so rude. It could be that she's angry about something that's more about her (e.g. that she's angry her daughter is gay, that her daughter didn't give birth, etc.). But it can help her to own what she's saying with her actions. People always want plausible deniability with their actions if it makes them feel "icky" - e.g. that she can act mad about these things, but is horrified to think of herself this way and thinks she isn't as long as she doesn't say it.

Work going well, some better than others. Have hired help, so I'm managing people, which I'm getting better at.

I'm a whirlwind of creation these days, having trouble keeping up with all of my plans and ideas. Giving me pause on whether we'll have a 3rd.

Fenton posing my biggest parenting challenge these days by asking constantly "What is God?". Didn't I get this figured out? Seeing the appeal of fundamentalism - at least they have something understandable to tell children.


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## Maela

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Shanna~*
> Fenton posing my biggest parenting challenge these days by asking constantly "What is God?". Didn't I get this figured out? Seeing the appeal of fundamentalism - at least they have something understandable to tell children.


We are getting similar questions here with Maev. As UUs, Dh and I tried to explain what God means to different people of varying beliefs (we are both agnostic). A few days later we were at a pizza party with teachers and students from dh's school, and Maev announced to the table "God never lived."







I guess she's too young to understand the different views, but we had to give her some kind of answer. We should have handled it differently. Oh well! It's so hard!


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## Maela

DS is starting to be really difficult to get down for a nap. And right now he's happy as can be on my lap when usually he would be sleeping. ??? He just learned how to put his hands over his eyes and play peek-a-boo. It's so cute!

I can't believe how much energy he has right now. and it's not that overtired, second wind energy.


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## Sihaya

Reading along and glad to see updates from so many of you.

Nothing too notable here - still gestating (27w3d) and spending every possible moment cooking meals for the freezer and cleaning/organizing the house. Feels weird for the baby prep not to actually be related to baby stuff, but it is still just as satisfying to get it done.


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## PiePie

Hi everyone. Thanks for the kudos on getting Nugget out! MMM, I have thoughts for you on your MIL: did your MIL always favor DP's sis over DP? That would explain a lot about DP's failure to "stand up" for your family. Also, did MIL know SIL was having a girl? Gender preference can be very strong (bewildering to me); when my parents visited after DS's birth (a huge mistake on my part, for DD's adjustment, but that's another story) I was sickened by their constant gendered comments -- how strong he was, how big he was (only 6 oz. more than DD -- not significant), I could go on and on. And some people are, myseriously, more into babies in theory (in utero) than in fact -- witness all of the buying of baby clothes etc. for baby showers when those same guests (women, I am thinking of) do squat once the baby is actually here and the mother needs more than commercial products. Not trying to excuse her, and I certainly have seen the hostility from the non-bio grands in same-sex couples. OTOH, I have a FIL who is biologically related to his grandchildren, plural, and has seen DD twice. Hasn't sent so much as a card since then, or an acknowledgement of links to photos.


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## Maela

I miss you guys!!

Maev and Jaim are both sick. :-( Cough, runny nose, throwing up, headache, fever. I feel so bad for them. Right now Maev's watching a thomas the train movie while I sit here in the bathroom with Jaim as he takes a cool bath. At least he's happy right now.

Maev has really gotten into writing her letters. She can right almost all of them. J is always backwards, and S is hard for her; but otherwise they look great. Jaim is saying so many words! It's so fun!


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## Maela

Also, my SIL and her family are moving back to CA from MA sometime in the next 6 months. I'm really excited because Maev and Jaim will have cousins their age living just a few minutes away. They're 5, 3 and almost 1.


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## cking




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## ~Shanna~

Popping in to say "Hi". I just heard the news about Mothering going out of print, and it reminded me what a blessing all of you have been in my life.


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## PiePie

aww, thanks *shanna*!

exciting news from *noorjahan* on fb. pls update with deets!!

ds is 2 mos. and loves to dance! meaning i hold his hands and he stands and moves his hips.  dd is the world's most loving, attentive, enmeshed big sister. 3 y, 3 m turns out to be great spacing for us because she can read to him and to herself when i need some time with him alone. which i almost never get. i have been (am in) hell with a work situation -- basically i have a new boss who is resistant to the concept of leave, as in, stop emailing me assignments!! fwiw, she herself is a mom, and sah for years. i would think that experience would translate into some respect for the work involved in maternity leave/parenting but apparently not. dh has been having a rough time career-wise too but at least he is bonding well with babe and more helpful than i expected with dd. i am trying to homeschool dd (just for this year) because i can't afford more than 2 days of presch, but i am inconsistent about it. a lot of my projects take prep time that i just don't make -- i tool around on the internet after dd is in bed (which is late to begin with). also they presuppose that i can give dd an uncluttered workspace, which presupposes that i am a better housekeeper than i am. need to hire an au pair for when i go back to work; plan is to teach the kids spanish.


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## PiePie

p.s. with ds, unlike with dd (i think!), i am struggling with overactive letdown, which makes him super gassy and interacts badly with his reflux (which he has indepedently). i try to block feed but it is not intuitive to me to keep track of time and which boob i am supposed to be using. and in general the bfing relationship with ds is much different than with dd. which is sort of disappointing. i know he's his own person, but it's just weird, yk


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## Maela

PiePie, sorry about the work trouble and bfing. :Hugs It's really weird that your boss doesn't understand having been a SAHM. I had to block feed with both dd and ds (very overactive letdown). I think you'll get used to it. I can usually go based on how my breasts feel when I cup them in my hand (which probably looks pretty weird in public







).

We are going on a trip to the east coast this summer! We're flying to NYC for my cousin's wedding and staying there for a few days and then taking the train to Philadelphia, D.C., Charleston and Savannah. (spending a 2-3 nights in each place) Then flying back home from Savannah. These are just some places we've been wanting to visit and we thought it might be fun to take a train trip with the kids. Hopefully, we're right.








Anyone been on a long train trip with their little ones?? And PiePie, I think we might have time to meet up if you have time. Also, any suggestions for NYC would be great. I'm going to ask my cousin too; he lives in Brooklyn. There are so many things we want to do/see, but we only have 3 or 4 days, and one of those will be the day of the wedding.


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## cking

Maela, I hope we can see you during your trip too! We live right on the train line betw NY & Philly (closer to Philly, but DH takes train to NYC every day, so obv not that far. ). Maybe we can come to NYC and meet up with you & PiePie.

I haven't done a long train trip (not more than 75 mins) but I think it would be better than a comparable car ride. We wanted to take the train to our vacation in VA last year, but it didn't work since the place we were going to is too far from a station. I am interested to see how your trip goes, since we have wanted to take the train to Charleston or Savannah. At least on a train you can move freely, interact with the kids, eat, nurse - all things that can't be done in a car.


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## Maela

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cking*
> At least on a train you can move freely, interact with the kids, eat, nurse - all things that can't be done in a car.


Exactly! I'm hoping it's MUCH easier than the car! And it should be easier than the plane trip. We'd love to see you guys too!


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## MujerMamaMismo

Does anyone else dislike this new format? I come here 99% less than I used to because I'm not into the fancy new business. Sad that Mothering is ending it's print life although it's never been available in Australia...And yes, Shanna - I'm so glad we all stumbled across each other all those years ago and thankful to Mothering for facilitating it!

Nice to hear ppls updates. We've been having some pretty tough times - personally, financially and in our relationship. PiePie and Shanna - you both offered such good advice re the situation with DP's family. I think PiePie is pretty spot on with what's going on but it doesn't make it suck less. Interestingly, 2 of DP's cousins have come out as lesbians in the last couple of months so I wonder if that might help her parents feel more normal and comfortable with everything...anyway - I've chosen to disengage with that for the moment, it was too hard. I've realised that I've been pretty depressed for about 6 months now. I'm going to see a counsellor next week and have started taking St Johns Wort. I hate being in this place and am going to do all I can to get out of it. I grew up with a bipolar mother and I do not want that legacy to haunt me, or my son. Real life is tough, huh?

Sebby is totally divine at the moment. His language has finally exploded and I get such a buzz hearing all that he has to say. I went to a 2 night conference a couple of weeks ago, without him. It was super tough on him and on my boobs but I coped so much better than I thought I would and really enjoyed the late night red wine sessions with a bunch of awesome women. (It was an ABA conference - LLL sister org)

Hope you're all smiling xx


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## MujerMamaMismo

Yeah - I had a massive supply and overactive letdown for about 4 months. Block feeding and feeding laying down helped a lot. Eventually it settled down. Not fun for any babe, especially a reflux-y one!


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## PiePie

yes i would be totally into a meetup!! i will be back at work, but having fridays off. where will wedding be? i will be a bridesmaid on july 11 in brooklyn. i have lots of ideas for fun things to do in the city with kids, but of course. are the kids going to be attending the wedding?? on l

long train rides are infinitely easier than confinement in a car seat. you can let the kids run up and down and there is a lot more lap room than on a plane. lorelei and i semi-regularly do a 75 minute ride and it's fine. when she was small we started doing nyc to dc -- which is 5 hours. she was consistently happy for the first 4 1/2 hours and then would get malcontent.

thanks for all the love on the overactive letdown. sidelying nursing helps me too. not being consistent on the block feeding. he is doing significantly better -- 2 night sin a row of no screaming -- cross fingers and toes please!


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## Maela

MMM - :hug :hug I'm sorry you're going through tough times.

PiePie, the wedding is on Sat. July 2nd, I don't know where yet. We should be available the Friday before.


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## MujerMamaMismo

Sebby is sleeping in his own bed, in his own room!!! Last night was night 5. He's slept through two of those nights and only one of the other three have been disastrous. As sad as it was to see him go, it was so necessary for me to come back into our room and sleep in the same bed as DP...it's already changed my outlook and our connection is much better too!

Now if only we could find a way to reduce his excruciating 2 hour bedtimes and his 5am wake ups... suggestions welcome!

St John's Wort is already working. Am feeling a whole lot better...

Also realised something very interesting which I wrote about here.

I wish I could be part of a meet-up. Given how broke we are, I can't envisage travel for a very long time but I'd be so thrilled to host any of you if you want to plan a trip down under!! (shanna, still waiting for an explanation of that cryptic facebook status about australia...???)


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## Maela

MMM - someday I will go to Australia!! It'll be years from now, but I really really want to go!

Was it you who said you didn't like the new format? I'm still getting used to it too, and I don't like it either.


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## cking

Hi Ladies,

I miss you all!

I've really been struggling lately. DD is in a major control/power struggle phase. Some days it's really too much for me to handle. It's to the point where I am going to cancel some of our regular outings (like playgroup tomorrow) because leaving the house, and then getting back home, eating lunch, etc. is just too hard. I know it's normal at this age, but she just really takes it to extremes at times - having to do things over, insisting we all retrace our footsteps and do it her way, etc. I'm exhausted. I'm thinking of looking into OT for her. I've been discussing it with my sister, who went through a similar thing with her older DD, (who reminds her of my DD in so many ways) and later went through OT with her younger daughter, who was diagnosed with Asperger's (albeit mild, not obvious).

Struggling in my marriage too. DH works a ton, is OOT every other week, and asleep on the couch the rest of the time (as in, right now.) Fighting over "discipline" and whatnot.

DS is a joy. I think one year olds are my favorite. He is fully mobile (he even dances now) and getting into everything. Also incredibly stubborn.

Also, I just overdrew my checking account. Again.


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## ~Shanna~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo*
> 
> (shanna, still waiting for an explanation of that cryptic facebook status about australia...???)


I wish I were really coming to Australia - I would love to meet you irl :love Alas, my comment was related to having a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. Which is not true today! Waking up regularly at 6 am with an enthusiastic little munchkin - it used to make me so grumpy, until I embraced it for a time to get to take a walk. Now we're out the door by 6:30, and play outside until about 7:30 am. Isn't that wild? Mildly grumpy with DH today (more on that, see below). When we're changing work shifts at 9:30 and you're 10 minutes late, I get that sometimes you have to finish up a work segment before you go. Happens to me too when I'm on the phone with a client. However, when I look out the window to the office and see that you're playing warcraft.....

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cking*
> 
> Hi Ladies,
> 
> I miss you all!
> 
> I've really been struggling lately. DD is in a major control/power struggle phase. Some days it's really too much for me to handle. It's to the point where I am going to cancel some of our regular outings (like playgroup tomorrow) because leaving the house, and then getting back home, eating lunch, etc. is just too hard. I know it's normal at this age, but she just really takes it to extremes at times - having to do things over, insisting we all retrace our footsteps and do it her way, etc. I'm exhausted. I'm thinking of looking into OT for her. I've been discussing it with my sister, who went through a similar thing with her older DD, (who reminds her of my DD in so many ways) and later went through OT with her younger daughter, who was diagnosed with Asperger's (albeit mild, not obvious).
> 
> Struggling in my marriage too. DH works a ton, is OOT every other week, and asleep on the couch the rest of the time (as in, right now.) Fighting over "discipline" and whatnot.
> 
> DS is a joy. I think one year olds are my favorite. He is fully mobile (he even dances now) and getting into everything. Also incredibly stubborn.
> 
> Also, I just overdrew my checking account. Again.


Christina I want to hug you :-( I've gone through the power struggles with F so many times. One of the things I've noticed with him is that a) it's guarenteed to happen if he's tired or hungry, so much so that the poor kid is asked to eat something every time he starts to have a fit. I'm sure I'm planting some serious eating disorders :-( But b) probably the best things DH and I realized is that we were probably confusing Fenton with how often we let him make choices, and how often we would retrace steps to accomodate a whim. Whenever Fenton was mildly uncomfortable, bored, tired or hungry, he wanted to influence the situation to see if it would help him feel better. We had led him to believe that he could influence everything, thinking that if we let him make one more choice, it would help. It rarely did. I know that sounds harsh in these circles to say that we were giving him to many choices, but I started to see that he was genuinely confused about what he had control over and what he didn't. It fell in line with the idea that sometimes they really do need to release some energy in a tantrum, and by trying to pacify him we just kept putting it off. Now he still acts out if he's tired or hungry, but then we know that a) we biffed it by letting him get to that point and b) he has a more realistic expectation of his influence on the household. If he needs to get out some energy, he'll have a little fit and let us comfort him, but then he'll move on. I don't know if that will help or not, but I thought Id share it since it took us longer to put together than I wish it had.

On marital issues......Is there anyone who feels that their marriage is better for having children? I feel like I'm just hanging on, hoping we make it out of this alive. It's giving me serious reconsideration on having a third child, I just feel so disconnected from my marriage. I know it isn't true, but it sometimes feels like my partner just gets to do whatever the flip he wants and I'm left dealing with the fallout. We had a fight last night because he wanted to heat up a frozen pizza for a snack after the kids were in bed. He likes to cook these by setting them directly on the baking rack so the crust gets crispy. The cheese invariably leaks onto the bottom of the oven, burns, and sets the smoke detector off. So as I'm watching him do this, I calmly let him know that I didn't think that was a good idea because the smoke detector was going to go off, wake the children....and what I left unsaid is that you are the going to look at me like a helpless moron, confused about why they woke up and incompetent to handle getting the smoke detector off and both children back to sleep. And he actually stamped his foot insisting that he do this. It was so surreal, and clearly he feels like he can never do what he wants because we have children, but.....the whole conversation felt like a metaphor for our marriage right now. I know that's not true but I look at the things we fight over now and it just seems like we're on different teams. When I make it a point to get each of our needs taken care of (giving each of us time to ourselves every day, getting a regular time out to be alone together)things are great, but then it moves towards the chaos again if there's a lapse in care for even a moment. The data doesnt' look good for our social construct of a nuclear family - I sometimes wonder if he should go hunt, gather and spread his DNA around, and I'll raise the kids with other moms of my species.

And, I'm sending all my love over the overdraw. We've done that so many times, sometimes as an oversight, sometimes because money is just so damn tight. Hope you only had 1 fee instead of dozens :-(


----------



## Maela

Christina, :hug I thought what Shanna said was great. Maev goes through little phases like these every few months it seems; and it does usually mean that I need to step up and take a little more control/make more decisions for her. (hope that sounds right...) It's like she's feeling insecure or something.

Marriage: It is hard for me because I do feel like he has it easier sometimes. Now that the kids are a little older though (Jaim's almost a year and a half!), I'm able to take more time for myself too. that was our problem. I've found that I just have to take it, and not wait for him to offer. He does offer, but less than I would like; but I was just waiting for him. So now instead of waiting for him to say, "Do you want me to watch the kids for a little bit while you run?", I say, "I'm going for a quick run, will you watch the kids for a little bit?" Or "Are you free on Sunday because I have a baby shower I'd like to go to by myself?" instead of just hinting at the fact that taking both kids to the babyshower with me would be not so fun. I had to stop letting myself be the default caregiver.


----------



## witchygrrl

Sorry I've been so absent. Hugs to you all.

Kids really do throw a monkey wrench into marriage, don't they? It's a whole nother level of negotiating. I feel like I've been doing a lot of stepping back with Rhea, and letting DH handle things, mostly because I want her to have a good relationship with him. But then I need to remember she needs to have a good relationship with me also. The whining and the power plays and how DH handles them is what has been getting me lately because he becomes too angry,


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

God I wish we'd talked more about this relationship stuff earlier. Like so much other parenting stuff, no one really talks about this. For me though, I was so caught up in life that I actually didn't even realise things were going pear shaped until very late in the game. I felt so stupid for letting it happen and I felt as though I was the only one. As soon as I started talking about it with friends (you folks included) who I felt safe with, every.single.one nodded vehemently with experience and a story or 2 to tell which was surprising and comforting to me.

I feel quite nervous to put this out there but it's our sleeping situation that had the biggest impact on our disconnect. Of course I'll be responsive to whatever my next babe's needs are but I feel reluctant to commit to full time co-sleeping again. DS is now sleeping in his own room and DP and I are back in the same bed and the improvement in our relationship is exponential. Some of the friends mentioned above have said the same thing.

Everyday I feel more and more grown up. One day I might feel like an adult!

I'm sorry and comforted to hear that a few of you are also struggling in your relationships. I hope it's a wave that can be ridden out. xoxo


----------



## witchygrrl

I think that if DH and I slept in separate beds, that would have a great impact as well. I did sleep on the couch for a few hours last night because DD had a stuffy nose, and that prevents me from sleeping. DD has also taken to sleeping sideways, which is a big problem, but we just don't have enough space for her to have her own real bed, much less a room. So we're trying to make it work.

The ILs really tried to force the issue last time we went to see them, which really bothered me. They had bought her a puppy sleeping bag, which we intended for naps (and again, weren't going to force it), and so they basically talked Dh into having sleep in the sleeping bag on an air mattress in between our beds (twin beds, no less, so we couldn't sleep together either). So the first night, we didn't sleep as DD woke up 5 times. It was like having a newborn. But she really wanted to prove to her grandparents that she could do it, and didn't crawl into one of our beds. She did that the second night. And the ILs? "Oh yeah, we expected that." So thanks. You wanted us not to sleep?

My point is that because DH is their son, he should have said no way to this plan, as it did make him uncomfortable to even want to do this as opposed to me. I have enough problems communicating with them. Blah.


----------



## farmama

It's been a long time...can't seem to make the time for myself online or otherwise







. and of course i can't seem to navigate the new system either. should be easier, but i'm technologically challenged...

i'm truly sad to hear that mothering ceased publication. i read what shanna said on the last page and couldn't agree more-i really have enjoyed the time with this online community. and if it hadn't been for mothering magazine, i never would have found yall.


----------



## cking

Just wanted to say thank you for the responses - esp Shanna. I will be back with my response soon. it's hard to find a free moment to type a message - I'm sure I don't have to tell any of you that. love to you all.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo*
> 
> I feel quite nervous to put this out there but it's our sleeping situation that had the biggest impact on our disconnect. Of course I'll be responsive to whatever my next babe's needs are but I feel reluctant to commit to full time co-sleeping again.


I'm feeling similarly, and quite confused by it.


----------



## ~Shanna~

And now for a complete diversion:

I'm doing a Birth2Baby fair for my business in May, and trying to think of what kind of atmosphere to create, promotions to hand out.

I've gotten a lot of tips about creating a homey environment at my booth: comfy chair, candles, plants, warm table covering......

This is in stark contrast to the picture I have in my head of a bulletin board of pictures and class information. Anyone have any ideas of what might be cool? For a homey environment, I'm just not sure what I would do with it. It's not like pregnant women are going to plan to meet their friends at my booth, kwim?

And I'm trying to think of cool favors to hand out with my business info, but I suspect everyone and their dead dog will be handing out pregnancy tea. Any other ideas that convey "nurturing"? Maybe sticks of incense with my biz card......

Anyone want to try on my business hat and brainstorm with me?


----------



## cking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Shanna~*
> 
> Christina I want to hug you :-( I've gone through the power struggles with F so many times. One of the things I've noticed with him is that a) it's guarenteed to happen if he's tired or hungry, so much so that the poor kid is *asked to eat something every time he starts to have a fi*t. I'm sure I'm planting some serious eating disorders :-( But b) probably the best things DH and I realized is that we were probably confusing Fenton with how often we let him make choices, and how often we would retrace steps to accomodate a whim. Whenever Fenton was mildly uncomfortable, bored, tired or hungry, he wanted to influence the situation to see if it would help him feel better. We had led him to believe that he could influence everything, thinking that if we let him make one more choice, it would help. It rarely did. I know that sounds harsh in these circles to say that we were giving him to many choices, but *I started to see that he was genuinely confused about what he had control over and what he didn't*. It fell in line with the idea that sometimes they really do need to release some energy in a tantrum, and by trying to pacify him we just kept putting it off. Now he still acts out if he's tired or hungry, but then we know that a) we biffed it by letting him get to that point and b) he has a more realistic expectation of his influence on the household. If he needs to get out some energy, he'll have a little fit and let us comfort him, but then he'll move on. I don't know if that will help or not, but I thought Id share it since it took us longer to put together than I wish it had.
> 
> On marital issues......Is there anyone who feels that their marriage is better for having children? I feel like I'm just hanging on, hoping we make it out of this alive. It's giving me serious reconsideration on having a third child, I just feel so disconnected from my marriage. I know it isn't true, but it sometimes feels like my partner just gets to do whatever the flip he wants and I'm left dealing with the fallout. We had a fight last night because he wanted to heat up a frozen pizza for a snack after the kids were in bed. He likes to cook these by setting them directly on the baking rack so the crust gets crispy. The cheese invariably leaks onto the bottom of the oven, burns, and sets the smoke detector off. So as I'm watching him do this, I calmly let him know that I didn't think that was a good idea because the smoke detector was going to go off, wake the children....and what I left unsaid is that you are the going to look at me like a helpless moron, confused about why they woke up and incompetent to handle getting the smoke detector off and both children back to sleep. And he actually stamped his foot insisting that he do this. It was so surreal, and clearly he feels like he can never do what he wants because we have children, but.....the whole conversation felt like a metaphor for our marriage right now. I know that's not true but I look at the things we fight over now and it just seems like we're on different teams. When I make it a point to get each of our needs taken care of (giving each of us time to ourselves every day, getting a regular time out to be alone together)things are great, but then it moves towards the chaos again if there's a lapse in care for even a moment. The data doesnt' look good for our social construct of a nuclear family - I sometimes wonder if he should go hunt, gather and spread his DNA around, and I'll raise the kids with other moms of my species.
> 
> And, I'm sending all my love over the overdraw. We've done that so many times, sometimes as an oversight, sometimes because money is just so damn tight. Hope you only had 1 fee instead of dozens :-(


ok, i'm clueless on the new system with editing quoted posts...sorry!

from the first paragraph - yes, I think it's also influenced if she's tired or hungry (usually both!). We've been struggling with Friday playgroup - which is held from 10-noon, and includes snacks - usually fruit. Most people linger for a while longer, so she's often exhausted and very hungry by the time we leave, and for a while would fall asleep on the way home. I was taking measures to fix this - bringing along a lunch, etc. but as it happens we haven't even been to playgroup in about 4 weeks, for various reasons. I am really missing the time with other adults! Also this is a problem for her preschool - she had been staying from 9-11, but since most of the two year olds were turning three, they started to have them stay until 12. I thought she needed the extra time, but the transition was really tough, and we've had a very hard time getting home from school when I pick her up at 12. (won't leave the school, won't get in the car, won't get out of the car.....)

Also, yes to the second part about too much control. We're working on trying to find a balance. I've been talking with my sister about this quite a bit, as she went through similar things with her two daughters (now 17 & 20) - she suggested that J is trying to find our limits. I get that...and we're working on it.

My sister also suggested OT for sensory integration dysfunction - something she went through with her younger dd. We have an evaluation next week - I'm nervous, mostly about J's reaction to the visit. But I do hope that she qualifies for some sort of therapy - I need some help!










Shanna, I feel like that pizza incident totally could have happened here. We have actually had arguments over the smoke alarm and the kitchen exhaust fan (the new, quiet one, which he went to great pains to install, but still hesitates to use because *I'm* so sensitive to noise. I have to remind him that I'm much more sensitive to the sound of the freakin alarm, and even to the smell of burning food. :duh) But yes, it does feel like we're on different teams. It makes me sad - I'm looking forward to the weekend to spend time with him and get a break from solo parenting -- but he's not having fun while he's here and most likely looking forward to returning to work.


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cking*
> 
> ok, i'm clueless on the new system with editing quoted posts...sorry!
> 
> from the first paragraph - yes, I think it's also influenced if she's tired or hungry (usually both!). We've been struggling with Friday playgroup - which is held from 10-noon, and includes snacks - usually fruit. Most people linger for a while longer, so she's often exhausted and very hungry by the time we leave, and for a while would fall asleep on the way home. I was taking measures to fix this - bringing along a lunch, etc. but as it happens we haven't even been to playgroup in about 4 weeks, for various reasons. I am really missing the time with other adults! Also this is a problem for her preschool - she had been staying from 9-11, but since most of the two year olds were turning three, they started to have them stay until 12. I thought she needed the extra time, but the transition was really tough, and we've had a very hard time getting home from school when I pick her up at 12. (won't leave the school, won't get in the car, won't get out of the car.....)
> 
> Also, yes to the second part about too much control. We're working on trying to find a balance. I've been talking with my sister about this quite a bit, as she went through similar things with her two daughters (now 17 & 20) - she suggested that J is trying to find our limits. I get that...and we're working on it.
> 
> My sister also suggested OT for sensory integration dysfunction - something she went through with her younger dd. We have an evaluation next week - I'm nervous, mostly about J's reaction to the visit. But I do hope that she qualifies for some sort of therapy - I need some help!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shanna, I feel like that pizza incident totally could have happened here. We have actually had arguments over the smoke alarm and the kitchen exhaust fan (the new, quiet one, which he went to great pains to install, but still hesitates to use because *I'm* so sensitive to noise. I have to remind him that I'm much more sensitive to the sound of the freakin alarm, and even to the smell of burning food. :duh) But yes, it does feel like we're on different teams. It makes me sad - I'm looking forward to the weekend to spend time with him and get a break from solo parenting -- but he's not having fun while he's here and most likely looking forward to returning to work.


Ditto on how confusing the new editing system is.

Have any of you read "Simplicity parenting"? Its an awesome book, one of the few parenting books that I think are worth anything. One of the big things I started to see with our kids is how hard transitions are on all of us: shifting an entire family's inertia to get somewhere, do something different, get in the car, pack the diaper bag, get the sippy cups......Once we're finally in teh car, I"m exhausted. It often feels like trying to navigate a shopping cart that's overflowing. Brandon and I finally, after many parent FAILs, implemented a guideline that we do only 1 outing with the kids per day, and only 1 evenign per week where we stay somewhere so late in the evening that we get home right before bed. This was sort of tough, because almost every day we each work a 4-hour shift at home, and whenever you're the one caretaking in the winter, you want to be the one to take the kids out of the house. But we saw one day where I took the kids to the library and chiropractor, got the kids home for lunch, and then B wanted to turn around at 1 and take them out again, and we were frustrated that the kids were a mess. Anyway, the book does a great job of seeing being on "Adult time" from a kids perspective, that they just can't stack activities the way we want to.

Christina, with your situation: Would it help to have less centralized Mama-dates so you don't have to transition J as often? Like invite moms you like to your house, instead of going out? I saw the beauty of this when we were on one car and everyone came to me. I also saw last week how much different my kids were when the weather wasn't frigid and we could be outside most of the day. And, as I'm constantly reminding myself, parenting is hard, and not because I'm doing it wrong. Not everything is an opportunity for change and improvement, so my advice may be worthless 

I don't know if it's of interest here (I feel like we've talked about it) but my business does an eNewsletter once a month and in April the article is about Mama Rage. I'm really proud of the article, it has some great resources to share. If you want to sign up for the newsletter, you can here. Sorry for the ad, but I think of all of you a lot with the work I'm doing, and I'd like to share it. There's nothing to buy 

Potty training today again, take 5. And no, I don't mean "potty learning". I'd give him dog biscuits at this point if I thought it would help. At this point, I don't care about his motivations, don't care if he does it to please me, I just want to stop changing his flipping diapers. Other than that, I love this age! He turns 4 today, can you believe it? I know what you're thinking, Why are you potty training on his birthday? He chose it as his deadline, after I told him kindly that I didn't want to change him anymore and that I was confident he was capable of doing it. We bought some exciting big boy underwear (because he's outgrowing the 2t/3t undies he already has. What a cruel joke) and an exciting Batman book that we read when we're on the potty and having a hard time staying long enough to actually get urine in the potty. I'd buy the kid a pony if I thought it would help......Wish me luck.

Lord, I miss you ladies 

PiePie, I saw Jane Eyre yesterday! Thanks for the advice


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Shanna~*
> 
> And now for a complete diversion:
> 
> I'm doing a Birth2Baby fair for my business in May, and trying to think of what kind of atmosphere to create, promotions to hand out.
> 
> I've gotten a lot of tips about creating a homey environment at my booth: comfy chair, candles, plants, warm table covering......
> 
> This is in stark contrast to the picture I have in my head of a bulletin board of pictures and class information. Anyone have any ideas of what might be cool? For a homey environment, I'm just not sure what I would do with it. It's not like pregnant women are going to plan to meet their friends at my booth, kwim?
> 
> And I'm trying to think of cool favors to hand out with my business info, but I suspect everyone and their dead dog will be handing out pregnancy tea. Any other ideas that convey "nurturing"? Maybe sticks of incense with my biz card......
> 
> Anyone want to try on my business hat and brainstorm with me?


Double ditto - this new editing system is hard work...
I do a few of these shows a year with the maternity reform group I'm involved with and what really draws women in, other than comfy chairs to breastfeed in, is the big pile of _*sound*_ pregnancy, birth & parenting books. And I hate to be Negative Nancy, but I really doubt they'll let you burn candles.

In terms of favours, some of the enviro friendly(ish) nappy companies love providing samples for people like us to give out. Bambo are the ones that I've had good luck with - I don't know if they're available in the US but they're Danish and I'd be surprised if they came to Australia but not the US...


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *~Shanna~*
> 
> And now for a complete diversion:
> 
> I'm doing a Birth2Baby fair for my business in May, and trying to think of what kind of atmosphere to create, promotions to hand out.
> 
> I've gotten a lot of tips about creating a homey environment at my booth: comfy chair, candles, plants, warm table covering......
> 
> This is in stark contrast to the picture I have in my head of a bulletin board of pictures and class information. Anyone have any ideas of what might be cool? For a homey environment, I'm just not sure what I would do with it. It's not like pregnant women are going to plan to meet their friends at my booth, kwim?
> 
> And I'm trying to think of cool favors to hand out with my business info, but I suspect everyone and their dead dog will be handing out pregnancy tea. Any other ideas that convey "nurturing"? Maybe sticks of incense with my biz card......
> 
> Anyone want to try on my business hat and brainstorm with me?
> 
> 
> 
> And I hate to be Negative Nancy, but I really doubt they'll let you burn candles.
Click to expand...

Oooo, good point. I'm thinking of doing a seed-planting favor: Having a table where women can decorate a pot for a plant for their baby, maybe naming it what they are calling their baby right now, and then planting a seed that they can watch grow. It incorporates birth art and the BFW philosophy so well.....


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Seeds are a lovely idea Shanna. Do it!


----------



## cking

I like the seed idea too. I was also thinking of packets of postpartum herbal bath (like you sent me :love).


----------



## ~Shanna~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cking*
> 
> I like the seed idea too. I was also thinking of packets of postpartum herbal bath (like you sent me :love).


Ooooo, THAT'S a great idea!!!!!! Cheaper and easier too......Hmmmm.......


----------



## Sihaya

Shanna, I like both the seed idea and the herbal bath idea, but got an herbal bath from the same event last year and have saved it all this time to use postpartum. It was definitely my favorite freebie that I got there. Will you be doing a drawing/giveaway of any kind?


----------



## TwilightJoy

Steph you're getting so close! Oh my gosh, so exciting!


----------



## witchygrrl

I'll second the postpartum herbal bath suggestion. My doula gave me one and I absolutely loved it.

And yay, Steph, you are close! How are you feeling?


----------



## Sihaya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *witchygrrl*
> 
> And yay, Steph, you are close! How are you feeling?


Feeling fine physically, only slightly crazy mentally (but mentally ready to have baby now or wait another 2-3 weeks), and sick and tired of interacting with strangers and acquaintances in social situations. Guy behind the counter at the convenience store asked me why my "man" didn't come in and get the thing I was buying for me







Overall, though, pregnancy is going well and I'm quite looking forward to another home birth.


----------



## ~Shanna~

LOL

Sihaya, I'm picturing your DH as "your man". He's in a bikini, bringing you a beer.


----------



## Maela

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Shanna~*
> 
> LOL
> 
> Sihaya, I'm picturing your DH as "your man". He's in a bikini, bringing you a beer.


This made me laugh out loud.









Horrible, horrible parenting day today.







I yelled, I cried... Dh is in the kids' bedroom right now working on getting the kids to sleep because I was about to go crazy. We're going through another rough patch with both kids. Maev has been hitting us lately. Yesterday she threw a toy at Jaim's head.














And Jaim loves his big sister so much that he is copying everything she does - nice and not so nice. He also has not been sleeping as well as usual, and he's it's been unusually rough getting him down at night. I just don't know what to do anymore. Dh reminded me that we go through times like this every so often. Times when we have to change our routines or strategies because the kids are changing and things just aren't working anymore. But it still doesn't change the fact that I feel like a failure of a mom right now.







I've read so many parenting books, I'm really tired of them now. They're all conflicting, and they make me doubt myself. Anyway, just had to come here to complain...


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Oh *Maela*...your last post was over a week ago. I'm sorry no one was around to give you the love and reassurance you needed. How are you going now?

And







:joy:joy:joy:joy:joy:joy to *Steph*! Lovely news over on facebook the other day! Congratulations. I hope your babymoon is wonderful and I can't wait to hear about the birth.

Things are going much better here. I'm reluctantly weaning DS - we dropped his morning feed this week and will stick with just his bedtime feed until the time seems right. It's so bittersweet.

And we're gearing up to TTC #2 for real. I'm no longer feeling ambivalent about it and am just excited. It'll prob be a few more months before we get started as I want to get a few more health things in order and then it may take a while, as it did with DS, so I'm trying not to imagine how it will look...but it feels very right, now!

And Happy Birthday to *Shanna* for the other day. I forgot we were both Aries. No wonder I like you so much!

How is everyone?

xx


----------



## cking

Another belated Happy Birthday to Shanna!

And Maela, I'm also sorry I didn't respond. :hug I'm sorry you felt like a failure of a mom. I can empathize - we certainly go through similar periods. It's hard, isn't it, to finally feel like we've got a handle on things only to have them throw us for a loop.

a few weeks ago, Josephine figured out that she could push a chair or stool anywhere she wanted and be able to reach anything. (she's even trying to climb the kitchen cabinet shelves). And the same week, Nicholas learned to climb onto chairs, sofa and step stools. Seems like two minor things, but happening all at once and I'm having trouble keeping them both out of trouble.

Also, she slams doors all.the.time. Not sure how to handle that - I bought some childproofing device that is supposed to keep doors from closing - it's a piece of foam - but I can just see it causing damage to the doors and jambs. sigh.


----------



## Maela

Discipline has been going a lot better in the last week. I've just started going with what feels right to me instead of trying to do it perfectly according to all the books. I haven't yelled in four days! It was getting to the point where I was blowing up at DD a couple of times every day.







I'm really working on staying calm and just going with my gut. We have been using time outs (not locking her in her room or anything), but it's worth it to me to not be yelling/losing my temper all the time. And she's been doing so much better, and she seems happier! I've been trying for the last year to not use punishment/rewards/timeouts, and I feel like all I did was become a meaner mama.







Things just got so out of control. So I know it works for a lot of moms, but I just had to realize that different strategies work for different families/kids. Anyway, I'm feeling a lot more confident in my parenting skills lately, and I'm a happier mama.









Cking, DS has also recently become a huge climber. He likes to climb on our dining room chairs, which are the bar stool height kind. It's fine with me as long as he doesn't stand or get on the table. Makes me so nervous though!

Really looking forward to nightweaning DS!! Right now he's getting four new teeth (3 of them are molars) all at once. He really needs his middle of the night nursings, poor thing! So probably in a couple of months - he'll be about 20-21 months.

I still have not gotten my period back - 18 months pp. I was 17 months pp when I ovulated (and got pg) after Maev was born. So it should be soon... I don't know why I'm looking forward to it, I should be happy I don't have to deal with it for now...

ETA: Happy Birthday Shanna!


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## ~Shanna~

Thanks for the birthday wishes everyone. The day off was.....rotten, and a reminder that when you're a parent, any day can bring vomiting and intensive parenting. But the day after was....blissful. Fenton was still sick, so DH suggested that he take Reece out to our planned outing while I stayed home with Fenton. So we cozied up on the couch, eating popcorn and watching Tangled, a movie we BOTH wanted to see. I got a glimpse into how your children start to become companions and friends. It was really, really nice.

So nice to come and check in with all of you today. Today has been rough, my mother's train-wreckiness has reached a pinnacle and my sister and I have been given control of her finances, and we're discussing provisions for one of us to have Power of Attorney. It's striking to me what a reprieve it is when we're young and we aren't caretaking anyone else but ourselves. It seems that my days of parenting my children are converging with parenting my parents, and it feels exhausting, odd....and a titch resentful.

I wanted to come to share with all of you a project I've been working on for the past couple of weeks, an internet commercial for my birth classes. I'm really proud of it 

http://www.motheringourselves.com/blog/


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## TwilightJoy

Happy Mother's Day to all the grads!









To the NMY- your time is coming!


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## Maela

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Shanna~*
> 
> I wanted to come to share with all of you a project I've been working on for the past couple of weeks, an internet commercial for my birth classes. I'm really proud of it
> 
> http://www.motheringourselves.com/blog/


Beautiful!! I think it's great Shanna! Nice website too.


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## accountclosed3

so, it's been a long time since I have visited, but I do think about you all often. I'm pretty sure i'm on FB with many of you, but can't connect the names to the handles (but I do recognize the baby-faces!). 

had an MDC break, and other mothering-related boards break, largely because I was working and also because i was questioning my process. Not so much with mothering. Apparently you do that for about 75 years. I just mean looking at whether or not this sort of board was serving my needs. 

we have basically decided not to have any more children, and while I love that birthing/baby stuff, it's really not my focus now that I have a busy nearly 3 yr old kiddo on my hands. And, I feel that I have a handle on what he needs and am in a good flow of mothering with him, so I wasn't sure what I might need to talk about on here.  turns out it's decluttering and minimalism. Even though I feel all kinds of decadent with a table AND a day bed AND two chairs AND a bench. Oooh man, living it up with my STUFF. 

Ok, cute story, and then I"ll start reading all of your posts again. 

We moved to seatoun, and it's awesome, and hawk makes so many friends because every where we go, and everyone we see, he greets with "Hi Friend! We just moved to Seatoun! My name is Hawk! What is your name?!" It's adorable. He made our landlady "cup cakes" -- shells filled with mud. Luckily, she's a grandma, so she's used to these sorts of things.


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## accountclosed3

having read a few pages now. . .  *hugs to everyone* looks like struggles abound, and when I'm struggling, I withdraw. Perhaps that's not helpful to the rest of you, but even when I'm in my little cave trying to make things work, I *do* still think of you all. 

In re: marriage:

After the birth, I felt like my marriage and my whole family went completely wonky. Nothing made any sense, so all I did was focus on Hawk. Seriously, I mostly mothered -- I think because it was the only thing that I felt really good at. I tried to keep myself from being isolated, but that first year was rough.

Everything that a marriage can tolerate within it when there isn't a child, it cannot tolerate once there is. I knew DH was needy and anxious. I knew -- at some level -- that I mothered him. I knew that he wanted that. I knew it wasn't healthy. For some reason, I figured it would manage itself. Instead, when my mothering was properly channeled, DH felt abandoned, and that kicked up *all* of his anxiety and rage about his own mother and the issues inherent.

This anxiety hit a fever pitch (even leading to a massive panic attack that sent him to the hospital) by the time hawk was 3 months old. I'd compltely shut Ryan out about 6 weeks into Hawk's life. He was constantly picking fights with me and constantly complaining about everything. I was hardly keeping it together between the pressures of learning to mother, handling his aggression, and then handling the incredible strangeness of my family and my deeper invisibility (eg, how everyone said hawk looked just like ryan or was just like my sister -- to name a particularly weird one).

So, I had to do something. I basically shut him out, and then resented him for having to do so.

It wasn't until fall of 2009 (northern hemisphere fall) that i was able to even look back and see what happened. I approached Ryan, and he was -- thankfully -- already in counseling. We were heading toward moving to NZ, and a new pile of effort and strain on us, but it has brought us closer.

DH has learned to not need me to mother him. I have to work hard to not rescue him either. I do snap at him a fair bit still, largely when I feel he isn't taking responsibility.

Our sort of second big-issue cropped up in Spring 2010 (southern hemisphere spring), wherein the stress was high and Ryan wasn't managing it well. He revered back to picking fights and complaining, and then he and hawk would "spin out" -- hawk would get very physical with Ryan, and ryan would freak out, yell, and scare Hawk. This is -- of course -- when I wasn't there, and hawk would tell me later that daddy was scary and I would ask ryan about it and he would explain what happened.

I got help in the form of parent counseling through our playgroup leader. She was really good at explaining things, and it was really great for us. Ryan was able to utilize the techniques (that I use and have used the whole time -- and kept explaining to him, but he'd go "no! ou don't understand!" and so on), and got good results. We got everyone on a strong rhythm, and moved forward.

Now, we are several months out and did a move into a new house. The stress and anxiety has kicked up for ryan again, and so he was very stressed about having to take care of hawk and they got back into scraps. I had to remind him to read the articles, and he has finally done so. I explain over and over how it works. Ryan says 'he just doesn't misbehave around you." and I tell him it's because *i'm* not misbehaving. If i am calm and everything is ok, then everything is ok and hawk goes along. If you are not calm, then Hawk is not calm and he acts out exacty what you (and therefore he) is feeling.

I don't know why Ryan is so slow to get this, but I guess that's his path.

It's taken a lot of work over the last 1.5 years to really get our relationship back in order. Our business is humming along, and everything is going very well on that end. We have a nice home and lots of good friends. It's a really nice lifestyle overall. We are quite happy with the whole process.

But, we are still working on it.

And people ask us when we'll have another child. I realized about a year ago that I had to choose: Ryan or more children. I chose Ryan. I just don't think he could handle having any more children. We talked about it at length, and he agrees. He wants to hold out the idea that perhaps in 2 years or so, we might feel more ready, but then he admits that he doesn't want to go through that first 3 years again -- because it's so intensive and it takes a lot of time and effort. And he wants to focus on his career and the way he wants his life to go (with us, of course).

I think I realized this before he did, but we think it's the right answer. I don't feel it's right to put that level of pressure on our family, even though it would be nice to have more children. It is also great with just the three of us, too -- and we are happy.

I feel like we are finally back on track -- and it feels nice to be in that place.

But yes, i was quite sure that having a baby was going to do us in.


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## ~Shanna~

Is anyone out there anymore? Help, I'm trapped in hour 2 of getting Reece to sleep!







and year 3 of potty-training Fenton, but that's a longer post....)


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## accountclosed3

not so much. i think everyone moved to FB. are you there?


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## ~Shanna~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zoebird*
> 
> having read a few pages now. . .  *hugs to everyone* looks like struggles abound, and when I'm struggling, I withdraw. Perhaps that's not helpful to the rest of you, but even when I'm in my little cave trying to make things work, I *do* still think of you all.
> 
> In re: marriage:
> 
> After the birth, I felt like my marriage and my whole family went completely wonky. Nothing made any sense, so all I did was focus on Hawk. Seriously, I mostly mothered -- I think because it was the only thing that I felt really good at. I tried to keep myself from being isolated, but that first year was rough.
> 
> Everything that a marriage can tolerate within it when there isn't a child, it cannot tolerate once there is. I knew DH was needy and anxious. I knew -- at some level -- that I mothered him. I knew that he wanted that. I knew it wasn't healthy. For some reason, I figured it would manage itself. Instead, when my mothering was properly channeled, DH felt abandoned, and that kicked up *all* of his anxiety and rage about his own mother and the issues inherent.
> 
> This anxiety hit a fever pitch (even leading to a massive panic attack that sent him to the hospital) by the time hawk was 3 months old. I'd compltely shut Ryan out about 6 weeks into Hawk's life. He was constantly picking fights with me and constantly complaining about everything. I was hardly keeping it together between the pressures of learning to mother, handling his aggression, and then handling the incredible strangeness of my family and my deeper invisibility (eg, how everyone said hawk looked just like ryan or was just like my sister -- to name a particularly weird one).
> 
> So, I had to do something. I basically shut him out, and then resented him for having to do so.
> 
> It wasn't until fall of 2009 (northern hemisphere fall) that i was able to even look back and see what happened. I approached Ryan, and he was -- thankfully -- already in counseling. We were heading toward moving to NZ, and a new pile of effort and strain on us, but it has brought us closer.
> 
> DH has learned to not need me to mother him. I have to work hard to not rescue him either. I do snap at him a fair bit still, largely when I feel he isn't taking responsibility.
> 
> Our sort of second big-issue cropped up in Spring 2010 (southern hemisphere spring), wherein the stress was high and Ryan wasn't managing it well. He revered back to picking fights and complaining, and then he and hawk would "spin out" -- hawk would get very physical with Ryan, and ryan would freak out, yell, and scare Hawk. This is -- of course -- when I wasn't there, and hawk would tell me later that daddy was scary and I would ask ryan about it and he would explain what happened.
> 
> I got help in the form of parent counseling through our playgroup leader. She was really good at explaining things, and it was really great for us. Ryan was able to utilize the techniques (that I use and have used the whole time -- and kept explaining to him, but he'd go "no! ou don't understand!" and so on), and got good results. We got everyone on a strong rhythm, and moved forward.
> 
> Now, we are several months out and did a move into a new house. The stress and anxiety has kicked up for ryan again, and so he was very stressed about having to take care of hawk and they got back into scraps. I had to remind him to read the articles, and he has finally done so. I explain over and over how it works. Ryan says 'he just doesn't misbehave around you." and I tell him it's because *i'm* not misbehaving. If i am calm and everything is ok, then everything is ok and hawk goes along. If you are not calm, then Hawk is not calm and he acts out exacty what you (and therefore he) is feeling.
> 
> I don't know why Ryan is so slow to get this, but I guess that's his path.
> 
> It's taken a lot of work over the last 1.5 years to really get our relationship back in order. Our business is humming along, and everything is going very well on that end. We have a nice home and lots of good friends. It's a really nice lifestyle overall. We are quite happy with the whole process.
> 
> But, we are still working on it.
> 
> And people ask us when we'll have another child. I realized about a year ago that I had to choose: Ryan or more children. I chose Ryan. I just don't think he could handle having any more children. We talked about it at length, and he agrees. He wants to hold out the idea that perhaps in 2 years or so, we might feel more ready, but then he admits that he doesn't want to go through that first 3 years again -- because it's so intensive and it takes a lot of time and effort. And he wants to focus on his career and the way he wants his life to go (with us, of course).
> 
> I think I realized this before he did, but we think it's the right answer. I don't feel it's right to put that level of pressure on our family, even though it would be nice to have more children. It is also great with just the three of us, too -- and we are happy.
> 
> I feel like we are finally back on track -- and it feels nice to be in that place.
> 
> But yes, i was quite sure that having a baby was going to do us in.


Thanks for sharing this ZB - your candor and vulnerability is so appreciated, especially on this issue where, when it's discussed as all, it's with a laugh at how disconnected our marriages are while raising kids. My path has been different, yet the same. It's confusing to feel as though someone may be missing from the family, yet feel as though perhaps life it stabilizing into something that may be sustainable. I've been curious lately about if there are ways I might make parenting harder than it needs to be.


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## cking

i finally got an update! i haven't been checking in much and my inbox is out of control.

Shanna, I feel you on the potty training. We are still struggling. And naps for the little guy don't really exist.

zb, I appreciated your post too. I finally just saw it this week.

Quote:


> It's confusing to feel as though someone may be missing from the family, yet feel as though perhaps life it stabilizing into something that may be sustainable.


yes! I feel this too. At any rate, we're giving it some more time. But sometimes it just feels like this is just right and probably better for all of us. (but then, as the youngest of a very large family myself, i can't help but wonder...)


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## Maela

It's so nice to see you all posting again! I like FB, but there are some things that I feel like I don't want to talk about there where all my friends and family can see it too. I guess we always have that NMY grad group we made, but no one uses it! I haven't been coming here too much, just been waiting for the email updates. I've been spending more time at a secular homeschooling forum. I can't believe my dd is going to be kindergarten age next year!

Things have been pretty good here. Our trip was lots of fun. Hard at first (being alone 24/7 with two small children trying to see museums and such), but by the end Dh and I agreed that we didn't really want to go home!

Jaim is talking so much lately! It's so fun. He's underwear now, but has about one pee accident a day. Nightweaning is going okay. He's not nursing during the night, but he wakes up sometime between 3AM and 5AM wanting to nurse, and gets really upset if he can't. I'm trying to push it to 5:30AM. I'd like to cut it down to just two times a day by October when he turns two. He spent the night for the first time at his grandparents the other night.









Maev is FOUR!! We're still having problems with tantrums, not big ones - they're short, but intense. She will even try to bite us. Most things I read say that kids stop doing stuff like this by four, so I do get a little concerned sometimes. She's doing great otherwise. She's reading short sentences and likes to "practice reading" with me. She loves it when I ask her math questions (2+4, etc.). She's having so much fun with her cousins living here now. One of her cousins also just turned four, and they are like best friends. They're so cute together.

Oh, and we are definitely done after two kids. We're happy.


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## accountclosed3

.


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## ~Shanna~

Is anyone in here anymore? I miss you ladies


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## Maela

I got an update via email that you posted Shanna! Otherwise I don't spend much time here anymore. Sometimes I'll visit the homeschooling forum here.

I'll come back every time I get an update that one of you posts though!

How are you??


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## Maela

How in the world do I change my signature? It's a little outdated...

Maev is now 5 and we're homeschooling through a local charter that is SO awesome.

Jaim is 3 and a bit challenging. Very aggressive, but also very cuddly with a fantastic sense of humor.


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## TwilightJoy

Yes yes yes I'm still here!!! And in about 6 months I'll be able to officially be loved in this thread!


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## ~Shanna~

Twilight Joy is having a baby! You can be loved in here now 

Maela, its so other-worldly to hear about your little ones. We're homeschooling too, but I don't know if we'll continue next year. It's going really well, I love being able to give Fenton the space that he needs that I don't think he'd get in a traditional setting.


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## ~Shanna~

Double-post


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## TwilightJoy

Shanna did you delete your facebook? I looked for you today and couldn't find you.


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## ~Shanna~

I did delete it. And then I came back because I couldn't manage business accounts without it. They just creeped me out. I'm more used to them being creepy now, but it's been tough 

You'll find me again as Shantana Goerge, but I don't approve friend requests - I get addicted to the newsfeed. My kids go hungry and I just sit their, spaced out on FB. It's awful 

My company page is on there at Mothering Ourselves, but it's not personal stuff, just sharing articles that parents might like.


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## charliemae

I'm still around. My 4mo just cut his first tooth, crazy.


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## ~Shanna~

Hi Charliemae, welcome back! Or I guess it's me that's "back".....


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## TinyFrog

:wave

I haven't posted to MDC in ages, funny that I came back here when this thread popped back up.

Congratulations on your wedding and baby CharlieMae! How do you like being a mama? What else is going on with you? Last I heard from you, you had just finished school. Are you still teaching?

Congratulations TJ! How is the pregnancy going? Tell us your plans. 

DD is about 20 months now. She's a crazy climber monkey but a sweetie. She still nurses quite a bit, day and night.


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## TwilightJoy

I'm so sorry TinyFrog- but I'm struggling to remember you from our past threads! Did you used to have a different name?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinyFrog*
> 
> Congratulations TJ! How is the pregnancy going? Tell us your plans.


Thank you! Pregnancy is going well. I've wanted a baby for so long, I'm loving that I'm finally pregnant. It's so fun to wear maternity clothes and watch my bump grow. We've registered, so I'm excited to start receiving presents for the baby!

I'm planning on a hospital birth with a doula. Cloth diapering, baby wearing, and breastfeeding.


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## charliemae

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TinyFrog*
> 
> Congratulations on your wedding and baby CharlieMae! How do you like being a mama? What else is going on with you? Last I heard from you, you had just finished school. Are you still teaching?


Thanks! I am loving it! He is such a joy. The readers digest version of updates on me: Finished school, taught kindergarten, got married, bought a house, taught first grade, had a baby!, and now I am a SAHM.


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## TinyFrog

I was formerly water addict.


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