# Does faith negate grieving???



## ~Mamaterra~ (Jul 5, 2006)

I had a conversation yesterday with a friend that I hadn't talked with in over a year and updated her on the goings on in our lives....most notably the 4 birth losses that we have suffered since March. And do you know what she said?

"Rosemary, because of my faith in Jesus Christ I know that I will see my babies in heaven (she had 9 miscarriages) and it never dawned on me to grieve. You know, there can be such a thing as grieving too much."









To which I replied "well it has only been three weeks and I do have faith that I will see my babies in heaven but I still need to grieve."

She then went on to state how in her religion (LDS) the family is sealed together in a covenant for eternity and as a result of her undying faith in the gospel, she takes comfort in that and never found the need to grieve. She then asked "Has anyone ever told you of the glory of the Church of Latter Day Saints" all well knowing that I am Catholic....

Fortunately, the battery on my phone started dying and I had to go









So my question is...If I am a person of faith, is it unreasonable to grieve?


----------



## jauncourt (Mar 15, 2007)

I don't think it negates grieving as much as it ameliorates it. For your friend, it clearly is the thing that brings her through, and she is so secure in her faith that she doesn't miss her babies - she simply looks forward to meeting them. I have known people who have had this attitude, and I have experienced losses (of people in my life, not my miscarriages, though, - I grieved horribly for them for a long time, but I've come to terms with it now, even if I cry sometimes) where I have felt this way, or felt similarly.

For example, when the minister who was to marry my husband and myself passed suddenly, I immediately felt that she had something Very Important to do, so she had to go. Her husband became a minsiter to continue her work, and he married us. Her family misses her presence, but isn't sad (well, her granddaughters were sad at first, but have "talked to her in heaven" and feel better about losing their grandmother).

It is a wonderful thing when it works this way. I wish it was so every time









Maura


----------



## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

My husband sort of thinks so, in the context of miscarraige. He said it didn't really move him because he knew how great it would be for the child being with God. Unsaved friends, he does grieve. When my suspected miscarriage (never officially confirmed pregnancy, flame me if you like for caring so early and not knowing "real" loss) happened on a Mother's Day I was sad though, for never knowing this person and for loosing that status of being a mother. Every year after, I remember and the first thought of the morning is a bit sad. My faith (Christian) tells me we will not be a family unit in heaven, there's nothing to say we won't meet up again there though. From what I understand I am supposed to let God's will override mine and be willing to offer anything and anyone I have up without reservation...but if I fall short of that then well, I'm human.


----------



## normajean (Oct 21, 2003)

I am LDS, and while I believe I will have my babies in heaven, knowing that doesn't exempt me from having to deal with my grief over my losses.

I think that belief does ease the pain of my miscarriages I had years ago, its something to look forward to at least regarding those babies. But grieving is normal, natural, and one of the best books I have read on grieving was by an LDS author.

I think coming to terms with your faith and how it relates to your loss is part of the grieving process-they have even named a step in grieving as "acceptance." I don't think most people reach that step in grief during the first year or more after their losses.

I think your friend was trying to give you a possible source of hope & encouragement, and probably did not realize how insensitive this came across.


----------



## LittleLlama (Feb 27, 2006)

While I haven't experienced this kind of grief myself, I just had to chime in. I am LDS and I do believe that in the case of miscarriage those babies will be with your family agian..... BUT that wouldn't stop me from mourning my lost opportunity to have them here, now.


----------



## neverdoingitagain (Mar 30, 2005)

No, faith does not negate grieving. Denial negates grieving. Avoidance negates grieving.
There is a book by Sylvia Browne,( oh god, she has so many, I can't remember which







) where she mentions how much it hurts her every single time someone she loves dies. She knows with absolute certainty that she will see them again on the Other Side, and will be visited by them on this side (she's a psychic/medium) but dammit, she misses having them in the flesh, right in front of her. Because she's human, and like she says, we miss who we love.
I think its wonderful if you can feel secure in the knowledge that you will be with someone you lost again, but it doesn't take away the pain of the loss. We need to feel that pain, in order to move on. Its cathartic.
IMO, it was kind of obnoxious that she would try to convert you to her religion while you are vulnerable. I've been through 3 m/c's myself, and the last thing I wanted to hear about was faith/god/religion.


----------



## klg47 (May 20, 2003)

I am LDS and have two LDS friends who lost babies - one was born still at 40 weeks gestation; the other died after being born at 35 weeks and living 12 hours. One got very angry at God and went through a horrible time for at least a year. The other woman never got angry and was able to go on with life. But I would say they both grieved. Your friend either has an amazing outlook on life, or she is just holding things inside and sweeping it under the rug.


----------



## chels_c2000 (Jul 29, 2007)

I have faith that my baby is in heaven and with God but that does not mean God does not intend for me to grieve. I feel like God prepared me for the loss of my baby in many ways but I am still grieving over the loss of my baby. God has given me peace and comfort during this hard time. It does not mean that my faith should take the place of my grief. I know the Bible talks about grieving tons of times and I know that it is a process that God will guide me through.


----------



## dealic (Feb 25, 2007)

IME, faith doesn't negate grieving, and can make it worse for some people. This is because they are angry, and question their belief in their god, and that causes them additional pain and guilt, on top of the pain of the loss.


----------



## hannybanany (Jun 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dealic* 
IME, faith doesn't negate grieving, and can make it worse for some people. This is because they are angry, and question their belief in their god, and that causes them additional pain and guilt, on top of the pain of the loss.

So true.


----------



## PrayinFor12 (Aug 25, 2007)

I love neverdoinitagain's first line! (Can't figure out how to quote - sorry.)
It sounds like your friend has some issues - sweet, kind, and truly believing what she's saying, _but_.

Perhaps she never truly understood that she had children in her? I think a lot of women attach a "random personhood" to their babies and don't come to grips with _who_ was lost. Just a thought.

I take a lot of joy in knowing I'll hold my baby in heaven (and never put her down ever!) But sometimes I have that joy right smack in the middle of balling my eyes out.

And hey, "Jesus wept." I assume he had faith.


----------



## jeffsdear (Aug 21, 2007)

I think that is what gets me: the personhood lost. I feel pretty confident that my four angel babies are in a wonderful place, and they aren't sad. But man I miss them. And even if I get pregnant again and carry to term and have a healthy baby, that one won't *replace* the ones that have died...
I think that God understands our sadness, and doesn't expect us to pretend that everything is okay.
Faith is trusting that our babies are in a good place. Grief is missing them...


----------



## momoftworedheads (Mar 6, 2003)

I am a Catholic too, and our faith does not negate grieving. I have info from a Catholic organization on grief and some of it was really beautiful.

I think we all need time to deal with losing our children, grieving the plans we made in our mind and the anger we may feel at the Lord. I know that Avery is save in the Lord's arms and that I will see her again at the end of time, but it does not comfort me. I grieve for her every day. I will PM you the info I have if you want, it did help a bit.

take care.

Hugs!


----------



## meredyth0315 (Aug 16, 2007)

So sorry for you mamas that have lost







I consider myself a woman of faith, being messianic jewish. I do not believe that faith negates grieving. My loss was/still is very difficult and those questions of why, when I felt like I just found Him, how could He take my baby away were fresh in my mind. About 3 months before my ectopic I was disgnosed with Krohn's and it was so painful. Shortly after I found out about the ectopic, I was given methotrexate and was just so miserable. I was adamant about not having the shot, but ended up doing it. Come to find out that methotrexate is sometimes used to treat stomach disorders and I haven't had the pain or anything since the shot. I sometimes wonder if that was why I got pregnant only to have he/she taken away, but to heal me in the process. So yes, I believe that He was working for me then, I was just too angry & grief stricken to realize it. I hope that I have not offended anyone with my story, and please know that I grieve everyday for my lost one and would do anything to have him/her back in my tummy. Lots of peace & hugs to all you


----------



## mysticlotus (Oct 18, 2007)

I really don't think the two words belong in the same sentence. One has nothing to do with the other. Faith:the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things unseen. We had faith that our pregnancy's would end up successfully, but for some reason or another, for many of us they did not. I believe in God like I beleive in everything in nature being one, and all things in the universe being connected. But, what I don't like is how everything that we don't have an explanation for must be a mystery of God's will.

Sometimes we miscarry because something was genetically wrong, or our bodies couldn't produce enough progesterone or whatever. And babies, die at birth, maybe because something would have been genetically wrong with them and they would not have had a fulfilled life. Nature has a way of taking care of things for us...or you can say that God knew what was best.

As far as greiving, it is a natural HUMAN emotion, and like another poster said, Jesus Christ cried for his friend Lazerus. He was greiving the loss of his friend, but that did not stop him from doing his work. If anything it made him stronger. I personally do not feel that the emotion we feel when we grieve is there to keep us down and miserable, but to make us stronger, to make us wiser, and to get us to seek answers in life. God loves a curious mind you know, He said "Seek ye the kingdom of heaven, and all things will be added unto you". In another quote, God instructs us to ASK, and it will be given, SEEK, and ye shall find, and KNOCK, and the door will be open.

These are all verbs, meaning WE must put some action behind it, everything is not a mystery, and while we, IF we meet heaven's door, might see the spirits of our dead babies, we will NEVER forget them here on earth. I think God knows that.

I am not a religious person, I do not belong to any church affiliation, I merely love GOD the creator of the universe and accept people from all walks of life and religious backgrounds, just as Jesus did. Peace,


----------



## Aurora (May 1, 2002)

I realize that people try to be helpful but can be so insensitive.









I am LDS. I have faith and I grieved fiercely after my second loss. I know my babies are with a loving Heavenly Father. I still mourn the fact that they are not in my arms.


----------



## zonapellucida (Jul 16, 2004)

Oh UGH, I think she is just ignorant. I am glad she was able to supress all of it and is brainwashed enough to think one doesn't need to grieve. I have faith and I need to grieve, it is a process that has been given to us if one wants to put God into it. We are human.


----------



## labortrials (Aug 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momoftworedheads* 
I am a Catholic too, and our faith does not negate grieving. I have info from a Catholic organization on grief and some of it was really beautiful.
I will PM you the info I have if you want, it did help a bit.


Jen, could you PM me some resources please.

I'd like to share this link to an article written by a Catholic regarding the over-medicalized management of women in the childbearing year. This is relevant to me as a woman who hopes to conceive and carry healthily to term in the future and as a woman who has experienced loss. IMO, over reliance on technology pulls us away from our relationship with God (in whatever form we see him/her).

Big hugs to all of you grieving mommas of Faith! All of these responses have blessed me this Sunday morning.


----------



## Traceyky (Aug 26, 2007)

I am full of faith... I know my child is with the Lord. I know that life does not have the suffering we endure here. I do however still grieve all the things we will not do. I won't feel those precious kicks. I won't kiss that fresh wet head. This child will not nurse at my breast... so yes, I have faith... I praise the Lord for each day this child lived, and I grieve for me.


----------



## joshs_girl (Dec 8, 2006)

"The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away....blessed be the name of the Lord."

This doesn't say don't grieve, don't get angry, don't question, don't mourn, but through it all, continue to bless the Lord.

Jesus wept, many times, for his own trials, for his friends, for his mother, so it's only natural we should weep for our babies.

I think (and this is just what get me through the day) is knowing that somehow this is all in His plan for me....I don't know what the plan is, just that there is one for me.


----------



## Whittliz (Oct 5, 2006)

I read this thread several days ago and didn't post.......but I found it again to post info about this book. It is wonderful for me right now.


Why? : Trusting God when you don't understand by Anne Graham Lotz


----------



## HoosierDiaperinMama (Sep 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Mamaterra~* 
So my question is...If I am a person of faith, is it unreasonable to grieve?

Absolutely not. In fact, I believe my faith enabled me to grieve.

I'm sorry your friend was insensitive.


----------



## p.s (May 27, 2005)

Hey mama









I've thought about this some more ...and feel very strongly to respond.
Let me preface this by saying I am a Christian (not LDS) (and hope what I write won't get me banned or in trouble).
So I am writing to you as one Christian to another.

If we believe that God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son...then we must believe that God loved the world, that is man, with an incomprehensible love. So vast, so intense.
Yet all the love in the world, even God's love, would still not give Him an idea of what it is to be human...and love.
Because He is divine,
and would only have experienced a divine love.
It was only through living as a human, that He could experince what it is --> to be human ...and to love.

Or to be human...and to grieve. Or to be human and any of the millions of feeling or thoughts that we experience as human beings.
(and without writing too much to get me in trouble)...It is through this experience that he could be qualified to be CALLED a personal Savior. Not just to save us from sins, b/c I think God is so much bigger than just a God of fear.
But to save us...personally...in each of our individual lives, to meet us in our individual need, at this moment in our life.
So although at one time in the universe, God may not have known what human grief is, He does now...and He knows that that is what human life has.

So not only do I _*not*_ think that faith negates grieving (and btw, I think denial ONLY is an unhealthy way to deal with grieving apart from the faith aspect)...
but I think _not_ grieving _negates_ faith.

Not grieiving is denying your faith an opportunity to prove itself to you, that is...giving your *god* a chance to prove that he can be a god and personal savior to you. If you are so strong as to not have to experience _human_ emotions, then what do you need God for? You already have superhuman abilities.

...and regarding the comment that there is "such a thing as grieving too much"...of course the human capacity to bear another's burden is limited.
But...if your *god* tires from hearing about your sadness, whether it's 7 times...or 70 times 70 times 70, then maybe it's time to find another *god.*

p.s. my guess is that she does grieve...which is all the more sad b/c she doesn't allow anyone to help, even her God.


----------



## Barcino (Aug 25, 2004)

That is ridiculous and for her fyi the Bible says Grieve with those who grieve.
While my faith did help me through the loss of my son I grieved. I don't know what kind of losses that lady had or what her personality is but God understands and comforts grief - certainly doesnt negate it.

I swear I get mad at the dumb things that people can say in the name of God.


----------



## cubasianchica (Jun 18, 2007)

my initial response is NOT AT ALL, however people grieve differently and if that means it strengthens their faith then they have to do what they have to do. I personally have faith that I will see my daughter again, I know it. However there is not a day that goes by that I dont miss her or cry for her or pray for her, I think about her all the time. I even talk to her when I can. Every one does their own thing to cope. it might sound odd or even bad to some hearing that one does not grieve the loss of their child for one reason or another..... just keep in mind its what keeps that person going. Its not that they are necessarily insensitive or bad people or anything. They are just going through it differently. Just because that is one persons view doesnt mean it has to be yours. if is a bit shocking to hear something like that though.


----------



## Funny Face (Dec 7, 2006)

*Blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted.
~Matthew 5:4*


----------



## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Mamaterra~* 
She then went on to state how in her religion (LDS) the family is sealed together in a covenant for eternity and as a result of her undying faith in the gospel, she takes comfort in that and never found the need to grieve. She then asked "Has anyone ever told you of the glory of the Church of Latter Day Saints" all well knowing that I am Catholic....

Well for one that is an oversimplification of LDS belief. You are sealed as a family only if you have paid enough money (a full 10% tithe of your income) to be considered a full member who is allowed to visit the Temple and have the sealing ceremony performed. You aren't automatically sealed just by virtue of having a child or being married even if you're married in a LDS church. You can only be sealed in the Temple. I don't see how babies she miscarried could possibly be sealed to her. I am not LDS btw but had several good friends who were members. One of whom was very concerned because she and her DH were not able to be sealed nor have their children sealed to them because they could not pay the tithe.

Aside from that I have faith but that doesn't mean I didn't grieve my miscarried baby.


----------



## Emmalina (Apr 2, 2006)

There is a time for everything under heaven, a time to laugh and a time to cry ...a time to mourn...

Didn't that come from a famous book, what was it called? Ah yes the Bible. It sounds like your friend is a bit strange and out of touch with her own feelings of loss.

I'm sorry for your losses, it must have been heartbreaking. I hope that you are able to find a way to hope for future happiness. You are amazingly strong.

Bright Blessings xxx


----------



## normajean (Oct 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wasabi* 
Well for one that is an oversimplification of LDS belief. You are sealed as a family only if you have paid enough money (a full 10% tithe of your income) to be considered a full member who is allowed to visit the Temple and have the sealing ceremony performed. You aren't automatically sealed just by virtue of having a child or being married even if you're married in a LDS church. You can only be sealed in the Temple. I don't see how babies she miscarried could possibly be sealed to her. I am not LDS btw but had several good friends who were members. One of whom was very concerned because she and her DH were not able to be sealed nor have their children sealed to them because they could not pay the tithe.

Aside from that I have faith but that doesn't mean I didn't grieve my miscarried baby.


Worthiness for temple attendance is not based simply on tithing. That is an oversimplification as well. Temple worthiness is based on a person's _personal declaration_ of their worthiness-including tithing, chastity, testimony of the gospel, sustaining leaders, treating family members with dignity & respect, actively attending their meetings, etc.

Additionally the church provides financial support to members who are strapped-both monetarily & in the form of food & household supplies. I know for a fact my aunt & uncle received significant financial support from the church-they paid their tithing on my uncle's meager income & the church provided for their needs, including paying their entire rent & utilities bill for a time until they were back on their feet. People who are committed to receiving the blessings associated with tithing should have no reason to believe they will be left in the lurch. The church has canneries & farms across the country that are for the specific purpose of feeding member families who are in need-I know for a fact the one in our area is canning applesauce this week. They are funded by optional donations of members and are staffed by volunteers. My mom used to spend a considerable amount of her time compiling & delivering food & supplies orders for families in need. If your friend & her husband are still in the position of wanting to go to the temple, they should go talk to their bishop about how they can make a commitment to pay their tithing work to qualify for temple worthiness.

To clarify about how unborn babies & children are sealed to their parents-if the parents are married in the temple, their children are born under that covenant and are automatically sealed to their parents. In the case of parents going to the temple to be sealed after a civil marriage ceremony, with children being born before the sealing is the only time children are allowed into the temple at all, whether they are born into the sealing or not.

So for example, if a man & woman are married & have 2 children before they go to the temple, those 2 children would go too to the sealing ceremony. Subsequent children born to the couple would be born sealed to their parents already. Children adopted after the sealing would need to go back to the temple with their parents after the adoption is finalized for the sealing of those children to take place.


----------



## turtlewomyn (Jun 5, 2005)

Well, it is nice that your friend has such a good outlook, but I think that needing to grieve does not mean that you are not a woman of faith. (That being said, I am not a woman of faith, I was raised agnostic and have never really associated myself with any organized religion, even after dabbling in pagan religions and Buddhism).

There is a lot to grieve, even if you know that you will see your babies again. You are missing out on a lot (watching them grow up, get married, have babies of their own) and you have a right to grieve that.

One of my ex-boyfriends had lost a daughter when she was about 11 months old. He subsequently passed away at an early age (around 35 or so, from an anneurysm, he had divorced and never remarried and never had another child). A mutual friend of ours had a dream where he came to her with a little girl about five years old, and they waved to her, as if he were introducing his daughter to her. Now, at the time of his death, his daughter would have been around 12 years old if she had survived, however, she probably would have been around the age of five at the time he first met this mutual friend, had she survived. One thought occurred to me that perhaps he got to watch his daughter grow up after he passed away too. I am still not sure there is an afterlife, but if there is, wouldn't it be nice if you got to experience children growing up that never got to grow up during your life?


----------

