# Boys wearing dresses in public.



## 2much2luv

Would you let your 3 year old ds wear a dress out of the house?







:


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## PajamaMama

Yes...

if I had a 3yo ds...

Interesting to see this question here tonight, a good friend of mine came over to my house today with her 4yo son. He was wearing brand new white Keds-type shoes with glittery laces and little charms on the laces...a flipflop charm, a sparkly heart, etc. He *LOVES* the shoes. But he also loves to play swords and shields and monsters and dinosaurs with my kids. What harm can come of letting your kids dress however they want?

What are you telling your son if you say No?


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## 2much2luv

I don't have a son, but I'd say yes too.


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## loveharps

yes. If he really wanted to, I don't see a problem with it. Although dresses aren't in abundance in our house, so I don't think I'll have to make that decision any time soon :LOL

He does have a pink dolls stroller that he loves to play with (well, loved, it got broken in a mini tornadoe







I'm attempting to fix it) and he also enjoys playing with tea sets, I've had people say 'boys shouldn't be playing with that' and I say 'why not?' Usually they don't have an answer, or if they do its so stupid I just







.


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## the_lissa

Yes.


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## Potty Diva

Funny this should come up. I was talking with my afterschool class (age 5-10) and I said, why can't boys where dresses? Most said because it is just wrong. I said, "well, if dresses are only for girls, then why can they wear pants if boys should only where them?" No one had an answer except one. He said, "because God made the rule about clothing." I could have died. I don't think my eyes could have rolled back further in my head without getting stuck that way.

And to answer...if I had a ds, yes he could where dresses or skirts in public.


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## Tummy

YES!

I would let my DS wear make-up if he wished to..
:LOL in his teen years of course


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## shishkeberry

My DS isn't three yet, but if he wanted to I'd let him. I don't think my DP would be too happy about it, though.


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## zo's ma

When my son was three we didn't have any dresses so it would have never occured to him to wear them BUT.....I assure you a dress would have been pretty tame compared to some of the get-ups he went out in public in, :LOL

It's a battle I wouldn't choose, I'd let him wear the dress!


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## shanleysmama

Yep. He's 4 now and doesn't wear his sister's dress-up dresses anymore, but he still pushes the stroller (he's AP-in-training, LOL) and wears Barbie roller skates.


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## girlndocs

Yes.


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## violafemme

My first response is...............of course, he should wear what he wants.

My second response is if we are living on base (we are military) at the time probably not. Military communities are small and not exactly abundant in open minded folk. I'd hate for him to be ostracized for something so silly (saving the ostracizing for the 'no you can't have a toy gun like all the other boys' and other things I think are worth the battle), but I guess it would depend on how badly he wanted to wear the dress.

Now if he were 13 and wanted to wear the dress, then heck yeah. I guess it depends on the situation; I'd want to be sure he was aware of the consequences of shaking things up a little (military context here) and willing to take those on and be there to support him. At three I can imagine that I'd still want to protect him from the morons and not sure I could explain why everyone else was invited to joey's party and he wasn't. Might save that lesson for later...............

But it's all hypothetical since I don't have a boy.


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## JessicaS

I am a bad person.

I have let other people's little boys wear Abi's dresses (they really wanted to!) the man in question was horrified (and shocked at his horror...he is very liberal but his sons in a dress squicked him. His wife thought it hilarious.

Yeah, if I had a son I would let him. *L


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## MamaFern

yes and i do.. well, he's 2 1/2 and he likes dresses and they are comfy when its hot.. but he wears girlish stuff a lot and i love it and i think that anyone with a problem with a tiny boy wearing girls clothes is crazy!


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## MamaDaednu

Geeze I don't know.
If you'd asked me a short while ago I would have said YES in a big way.
Now I'm not so sure.

My son is very pretty. He has long blond curls, long eyelashes, and is just...pretty. People think he's a girl all the time. Always have. It doesn't bother me at all and I tell people that all the time when I correct them. However it seems to be bugging ds to be mistaken for a girl these days.
He has NOTHING against girls. But it bugs him that people don't know he's a boy.
Today he saw a pair of jeans with flowers on them and asked me for them. I told him their the wrong size for him.







:
My first reaction was to get them for him. Then my mind shot playbacks of his face when people mistake him for a girl and he dislikes it/corrects them.
I wish I could get them for him...but I know it would just add to people thinking he's a girl. And if it bothers him then I'd like to cut down on it.

I'm a bit confused on this one...

~Daednu


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## Karry

My ds wears his sister's nightgowns and sometimes her clothes, but it is usually because she dresses him or tells him to wear it. He wants to be like her so he doesn't protest.







Lately she has been wearing his clothes too. He is now wearing her flip flops from last summer, they are blue but have sparkles on them, and yes he wears them out of the house as well.


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## Poddi

Only if we're going to places that people wouldn't know that he's not a girl. We dress our sons very similarly when we go out. Jeans, plaid shirt, sneakers...etc. People always think they're a boy and a girl just because O's hair is longer than P's. Sometimes I think we might as well put some pretty clothes on O so people wouldn't think the poor little girl is wearing big brother's hand-me downs.


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## girlndocs

Daednu, people mistake Ds for a girl often too. I totally know what you mean about how annoyed they get. I think it really irritated Ds because it made no sense to him, you know? As far as he was concerned it was a complete non sequitur.

I don't know if you *want* any advice (as if I ever let that stop me :LOL) but we did a lot of talking about why people assume that some things = girl and others = boy. I think Ds kinda gets a kick out of "educating" these days: he'll introduce himself and say "I'm a boy and I have long hair" or "I'm a boy and I like purple." It's cute.


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## Emzachsmama

I have to be honest...no I wouldn't. I guess I'm pretty old fashioned that way ~ dresses are for girls, not boys.


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## spatulagirl

Sure, if he wanted to wear one he could. He wears barrettes and headbands (pink sparkly ones, he says they are his crown) all the time.

He does love dress up and most of his best friends are girls. When he goes to their houses he dresses up in their stuff which usually means he is a ballerina or princess. And that's cool. DH gets a bit unsettled but lets him be.


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## Mothra

My 3yo is not very verbal. He is verbal, but he has a speech delay and no one can understand him. His only requirement for his own clothing is that it is not his brother's.

I'd like to say that I would, but I would not. He is incapable of understanding the type of response it would receive, a response that might be dangerous to him.

If my 7yo wanted to wear a dress in public, I'd talk to him about it and explain what types of reactions he might receive. I would not let him wear a dress in public without me there to protect him.


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## umbrella

Well, if we want to be technical about what "old fashioned" is, there are many men alive today, whose parents PUT them in "dresses" as 3 year olds.

I recall seeing few pictures of my step-father's childhood, but this man's man, "*******" farm raised boy was wearing "dresses" in all the fancy family pictures, where he was very young.

And I'm suddenly reminded of an older style winnie the pooh book, where christopher robin looks just like an adorable moden-day _girl_. He's wearing a dress, and has a cute "bob" haircut.

"Old fashioned" people typically had little children dressed in the same particular way, regardless of sex, and then once they reached a certain age, they dressed like the adults of their sex.


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## umefey

Yes, If my DS wanted to wear a dress, of course he could..

I also agree with the PP's response to Emzachsmama's comment. Off the top of my head I can think of another example of "old fashioned" boys wearing dresses.
In colonial America boys were corset trained and wore dresses until they got their first pair of breeches and were considered a man.


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## Mothra

I want to be clear that I wouldn't disuade my 3yo from wearing a dress in public because I'm old fashioned or have some kind of moral objection to it. Mostly, I'd worry for his emotional safety. I don't think anyone would attack a 3yo for wearing a dress, I wouldn't let him out of my reach, but I can only imagine what the response would be.


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## mamajama

I certainly would without a doubt. It would be fun!! But, if they're not wearing their "cool" skateboarding clothes, I'm often spotted walking around town with mini superheroes.


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## eightyferrettoes

Eh-- he wouldn't be nekkid!


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## eightyferrettoes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *umbrella*

I recall seeing few pictures of my step-father's childhood, but this man's man, "*******" farm raised boy was wearing "dresses" in all the fancy family pictures, where he was very young.

Very true. My son is named after his great-granddady, who we have photos of wearing a white dress and Looking Verrrry Serious. Precious little guy.

On another note, I have dressed my three-month-old in pink while at a friends' house (ds threw up, all my friend has are pink sleepers) and my dh said "At least he's secure in his manhood"


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## Emzachsmama

Ok so aparently 'old fashioned' wasn't the best way for me to describe my feelings. :LOL

I guess it just comes down to the fact that I think dresses are for girls and not boys and I wouldn't be comfortable with my son wearing a dress.


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## mermommy

yes


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## delicious

yes, i would. he has already a few times, but he's too young to really pick out his own clothes-his sister picked the times he wore them. even when he wears a blue t shirt people say what a pretty girl i have-but i totally think he looks like a boy.









i hope they won't care what other people think.

i do agree with Mothra, though. Only if I were there to protect him from any potentially mean people.


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## lotusdebi

*


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## Zaxmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mothra*
I want to be clear that I wouldn't disuade my 3yo from wearing a dress in public because I'm old fashioned or have some kind of moral objection to it. Mostly, I'd worry for his emotional safety. I don't think anyone would attack a 3yo for wearing a dress, I wouldn't let him out of my reach, but I can only imagine what the response would be.

ITA.. in the safety of our own home he can wear whatever he wants..naked, dresses, hula skirts I don't care


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## Jen123

I would not allow my son to wear a dress out side of the house. For a variety of reasons including but not limited to , personal , moral , and safety.
Boys should dress like boys. Girls just dress like lil girls and not prosti-tots in training. but that's another thread. LOL


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## lotusdebi

*


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## Vermillion

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jen123*
Boys should dress like boys. Girls just dress like lil girls and not prosti-tots in training. but that's another thread. LOL

Are you cool with little girls wearing pants? Or blue? Those are traditionally boys clothing. I agree with the "prosti-tot" thing but I'm not into clothing, hairstyles, and things of nature to be for one gender or the other. It is a little unfair that little girls can be tom boys without criticism but a boy in "girls" clothing is ridiculed.

Anyway, I'd have no problem with my DS wearing a dress but it hasn't come up yet. He hasn't shown any interest in wearing one and I don't own any, so&#8230;

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi*
I did paint his nails recently. He wanted pink nails like Mommy.

My little guy is rocking silver toenails right now. He wants to be just like mama as he says


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## darsmama

ITA with Mothra.


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## darsmama

lol at prosti-tots Jen.


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## the_lissa

I think prostitots is the most pffensive thing I have read in a while.


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## Vermillion

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mothra*
I want to be clear that I wouldn't disuade my 3yo from wearing a dress in public because I'm old fashioned or have some kind of moral objection to it. Mostly, I'd worry for his emotional safety. I don't think anyone would attack a 3yo for wearing a dress, I wouldn't let him out of my reach, but I can only imagine what the response would be.

I understand what you're saying, but the same thing can be said about a lot of things&#8230; A boy having long hair&#8230;. a doll, breastfeeding in public! There are a lot of uptight people out there who want to force their expectations on to others, when do we stop letting them dictate our decisions especially regarding things our kids are comfortable with?

I understand you don't want your child's feelings to be hurt over someone else's ignorant, negative response&#8230; I go nuts when my child gets hurt and would love to be able to avoid it all. But on the other hand I don't want to teach my son that his decisions should be influenced by someone else's personal feelings on matters that don't even concern them. I want him to be him own person, always, even if others feel it is wrong.

Anyway, my apologies for going off there


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## lotusdebi

*


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## Emzachsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa*
I think prostitots is the most pffensive thing I have read in a while.

the idea of it is pretty offensive but unfortunatly the way clothing styles are these days, it's not that far off the mark.







:


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## ScotiaSky

I put our 14 month old DS in a kilt. Handmade by Grandma and Great Grandma

Its adorable if you ask me







...see for yourself.

http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeJMW7NuxcP2A


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## the_lissa

I agree that young girl's clothing is sexualized, and that is offensive.

However, I think the word prostitots is demeaning to those children who are forced into the sex trade, and it makes light of their situation. I think the term is loaded with judgment too. Who defines what is a prostitot? The parent is the one buying the clothes, but people are calling kids prostitots? I also think it takes away from the seriousness of the issue.


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## mamajama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Emzachsmama*
the idea of it is pretty offensive but unfortunatly the way clothing styles are these days, it's not that far off the mark.







:


_Pretty_ offensive? It's an absolutely horrendous innuendo. Talk about putting pressure on kids to look a certain way. Jeesh, we get this all our lives, why do we have to start on them when they're so young. So, as the word implies, now *Toddlers* clothing (Girl, only I take it) has to look a certain way or else the implication is that sluttiness is involved? Or what? I don't get it. That term sounds mysogonistic and bizarre, to me.
Why do people think it's ok for girls to dress in pants etc. but not ok for boys to wear dresses? I'm interested in theories about this.


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## Vermillion

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ScotiaSky*
I put our 14 month old DS in a kilt. Handmade by Grandma and Great Grandma

Its adorable if you ask me







...see for yourself.

http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeJMW7NuxcP2A

That is adorable! I'm so jealous. DP and I have always wanted to get DS a kilt. So cute!


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## Dragonfly

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tummy*
YES!

I would let my DS wear make-up if he wished to..
:LOL in his teen years of course

:LOL My ds (4.5 years) sometimes goes out with make-up on. If I decide to wear some, he likes to wear it as well. Of course, for him that means eyebrow pencil on his forehead and cheeks and lip gloss on his nose.

Yes, he could wear a skirt or dress if he wanted. He often wears a red velvet cloak lately and tells everyone he's Darth Vader.


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## mountain

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jen123*
I would not allow my son to wear a dress out side of the house. For a variety of reasons including but not limited to , personal , moral , and safety.
Boys should dress like boys. Girls just dress like lil girls and not prosti-tots in training. but that's another thread. LOL

I just had to quote this entire thing because it is so offensive and I disagree with it so much :LOL Boys should dress like boys puh-leeze. And who's the grand puba that decided what is "boy dress". I would call this statement "archaic", but it doesn't even take past history into account, so it cannot be archaic. Men have always worn skirts as a norm, until about 50 years ago in THIS country--so that's the end-all, be-all?

There are no moral or safety reasons (what, are we afraid our sons are gonna get their penises caught on something? :LOL) that are valid. Better tell those priests & reverends to watch out, they wear really long dresses...

My son used to love wearing sarongs, and we'd go to the store in our ******* town, out to dinner. Because he had long hair to his butt, probably most people thought he was a girl. We had some small-minded people actually say "no" when we would correct them by saying "he" when they said "she".

My son loved skirts except for, and I quote, "Those mean people who think I'm a girl". I think it's so silly with so many other wonderful things in the world, that we should attempt to put morals on gender/clothing...why should it matter whether the child is a girl or boy--are you gonna date 'em? If they have a piece of cloth on their bodies that somehow signifies their gender, shouldn't we realize the personal, moral, and safety reasons to CHANGE THE WAY WE CATEGORIZE PEOPLE, rather than automatically assuming THEY are WRONG ?







:

The oversimplification of boy=pants girl=skirts really gets my blood boiling, if only for the fact that it's people who FEAR the DIFFERENCES in people that are SO dangerous, as seen by example with that poor Matthew Shepard boy. If fear of lynching for a boy wearing a skirt is our "safety" reason, then we are just perpetuating THAT HATRED. IT NEEDS TO STOP.

Shame on us for not celebrating those differences as a beautiful part of humanity, instead hiding under some weird "moral" that requires a person to shame another for doing something *gasp* outside their box.


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## MamaDaednu

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ScotiaSky*
I put our 14 month old DS in a kilt. Handmade by Grandma and Great Grandma

Its adorable if you ask me







...see for yourself.

http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeJMW7NuxcP2A

OMG I am jealous...that's a gorgeous kilt! I've always put Sid in kilts. He loves wearing them.
But of course EVERYONE who doesn't know him thinks he's a girl.









~Daednu


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## Emzachsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajama*
_Pretty_ offensive? It's an absolutely horrendous innuendo. Talk about putting pressure on kids to look a certain way. Jeesh, we get this all our lives, why do we have to start on them when they're so young. So, as the word implies, now *Toddlers* clothing (Girl, only I take it) has to look a certain way or else the implication is that sluttiness is involved? Or what? I don't get it. That term sounds mysogonistic and bizarre, to me.
Why do people think it's ok for girls to dress in pants etc. but not ok for boys to wear dresses? I'm interested in theories about this.









To be honest I think there are clothing styles for young girls out there that are completely innapropriate, and yes even bordering on slutty.

As for boys wearing dresses/girls wearing pants....I honestly don't know why it is ok for girls but not for boys, but for *me and my family*, dresses on our son is not ok. I don't much care what other families choose but that is how it is for our family.


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## Arduinna

Another vote against the concept that clothing choices should be limited by gentials.


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## Karry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Emzachsmama*
To be honest I think there are clothing styles for young girls out there that are completely innapropriate, and yes even bordering on slutty.

As for boys wearing dresses/girls wearing pants....I honestly don't know why it is ok for girls but not for boys, but for *me and my family*, dresses on our son is not ok. I don't much care what other families choose but that is how it is for our family.

What if your son wants to wear a dress what will you tell him? That dresses are for girls only?

My son likes to wear his sisters things and thinks nothing of it. Dh and I let him wear whatever he wants to wear.


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## lillian

i would be a 'no' on this one.


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## Vermillion

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Karry*
What if your son wants to wear a dress what will you tell him? That dresses are for girls only?

I wonder about that too.

Is it really right for your family? Child included, or just you?

Also, I am still not understanding why it is not right for some people&#8230; I'd be interested in hearing specific reason as to why it isn't ok for boys to wear a dress. Social rules? Fear of turning a child gay?







I'm really not trying to stir the pot, I am honestly just very curious.

I've always felt that self expression shouldn't have any limits (assuming it isn't really hurting anyone else). There are things that I don't like and would NEVER wear, but it isn't my right to push those opinions on to others, my child included.


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## Starr

Emzachsmama- I LOVE your siggy. Very well said. I think others could learn a great deal from it.


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## Mothra

Quote:

I understand what you're saying, but the same thing can be said about a lot of things&#8230; A boy having long hair&#8230;. a doll, breastfeeding in public! There are a lot of uptight people out there who want to force their expectations on to others, when do we stop letting them dictate our decisions especially regarding things our kids are comfortable with?
Everyone has their own line, and this is where mine is. I DO see all of those things on an almost daily basis-- men or boys with long hair, boys with dolls, and breastfeeding in public. I have never seen a boy wearing a dress in public, although there was a child I used to work with who enjoyed wearing a white wedding dress wherever he went.

Every single one of us alters our appearance in some way to meet social expectations. The fact that we wear clothes at all is testament to this. I'm not saying that anyone shouldn't be comfortable allowing their young son to wear a dress in public, I said that _I_ not comfortable doing so. I also said that I would allow my older son to do so if I felt like he understood the potential risks of doing so. A 3yo isn't going to understand WHY I'm not letting him wear a dress. If he could, then it wouldn't be an issue because I'd let him make the decision himself. I"m not really "teaching" him anything by disuading him from wearing a dress.


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## amybw

What if your DH or male DP decided he wanted to wear dresses, pink and lacey ones. And pantyhose, high heels and make up.

I know that there are men who wear dresses, but what if he just decided this? what would you think? Self expression coming out?

just thinking out loud...


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## Mothra

And can we drop the word "prostit-tot"? It makes my stomach lurch. That is such a disgusting, demeaning, inappropriate word.


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## thismama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mountain*
what, are we afraid our sons are gonna get their penises caught on something? :LOL











Of course I would let my son wear anything he pleases. I consider it immoral to enforce rigid and restrictive gender roles on any child.


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## lotusdebi

*


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## thismama

:LOL I'm with you lotusdebi! I'm into guys in dresses too... I LOVE butch women and femme men. But that's another, innuendo-laden thread.

This is actually what it's all about IMO. Are we comfortable with men AND women transgressing gender roles?

I am absolutely. I think it's called evolution.


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## Houdini

I'm voting no on this one as well.


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## Vermillion

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amybw*
What if your DH or male DP decided he wanted to wear dresses, pink and lacey ones. And pantyhose, high heels and make up.

Hmm&#8230; I'm not sure what I would do. He has certainly worn worse though, that's for sure. Like cowboy boots and a cowboy hat... :LOL

(no offence to any cowboys, just not my thing...)


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## Greaseball

Quote:

What if your DH or male DP decided he wanted to wear dresses, pink and lacey ones. And pantyhose, high heels and make up.
Mine will. At my request.









We don't have any boys, so I guess I can't say, but while we were expecting #1 we just decided that boys could wear pink too.

My dh wears pink a lot, even to work.


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## philomom

While my ds never wore a dress in public, he was very "adorned" at two. He wore hats and necklaces and sometimes a boa.

I had a family member who was quite outspoken that this would "turn him gay". I said I was pretty sure it takes more than dressing.


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## Zaxmama

here are my thoughts.. If my 2.5 yo son wanted to wear a dress in public..I would honestly try to dissuade him.... he loves to wear feather boas and tiara and beads and all that..walk around in mommy's heels and carry mommy's purse..I don't mind at all..he has a baby doll and he play nurses it.. I could care less.. my only fear and yes admittedly and guiltily (sp?) it is due to social pressures and standards I would be afraid that someone would say something harsh and mean to him if he wore a dress in public.. its a shame but for his safety I sometimes cave into what society deems as the norm..I don't want to be flamed for it though..its just what works for me ykwim...I would NEVER ever say anything to someone else or there children for wearing a dress in public..to each his own I say... I wish I could be so bold as to say Screw society totally but I guess this make me kind of soggy...


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## Emzachsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Karry*
What if your son wants to wear a dress what will you tell him? That dresses are for girls only?

Yes that is exactly what I would tell him.


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## Greaseball

Lots of people say that public ridicule is a reason they would not let their ds wear a dress. But look at all the things we do that might bring about ridicule! What if you let your 1-year-old ds nurse in public? What about cloth diapers, home birth, non-vaxing? Those things are ridiculed. I read one post from a member who was out in public with her ds and a lady wanted to hold him, but when she saw he was wearing a cloth diaper she said she did not want to hold him and became very rude and nasty.









I guess sometimes we just decide that certain things are so important (like NIP) that it doesn't matter what people say about them.


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## thismama

Emzachsmama - Why???







What's the big deal?


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## Emzachsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
Emzachsmama - Why???







What's the big deal?

It's a big deal to me and my husband. We're not ok with our son wearing a dress so we wouldn't let him wear a dress. We don't have a specific reason...it's just not something we are comfortable with.


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## Arduinna

Quote:

I"m not really "teaching" him anything by disuading him from wearing a dress.
of course you are. the same way we teach kids stuff from disuading them from anything else. this is no different.

And as far as parnters (specifically male ones in the reference given) wearing dresses. Not an issue for me.


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## thismama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Emzachsmama*
It's a big deal to me and my husband. We're not ok with our son wearing a dress so we wouldn't let him wear a dress. We don't have a specific reason...it's just not something we are comfortable with.

I don't get this. It's a big deal, but you don't have a reason?

I can't imagine basing parenting decisions on this logic (or lack thereof). There must be more to it?


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## Vermillion

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Emzachsmama*
It's a big deal to me and my husband. We're not ok with our son wearing a dress so we wouldn't let him wear a dress. We don't have a specific reason...it's just not something we are comfortable with.

But why? You have to have a reason other than just because, no? I understand that everyone feels differently about this, but I am just sooooo curious of the reasons behind it.


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## Arduinna

Quote:

We don't have a specific reason...it's just not something we are comfortable with.

ok seriously, I try not to make decisions without having some basis for it. Especially when it's one that involves my child. "Beause I said so" is never an acceptable reason in my house.


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## thismama

Cross post much?


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## Arduinna

Thismama







:

GMTA


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## CookieMonsterMommy

I'd let my 6y/o ds wear a dress in public, as long as it wasn't too frilly (mostly because I don't want it to get caught on things, ripped, etc....I'd sway my daughter--if I had one--away from frilly dresses too...unless it was a fancy tea party thing).

He already gets his nails painted (though not in a while...) and has long hair. He wears this really cool ring I got him from Ghana (west africa) on special occasions. When he was a baby, he had this little naked doll, Serabi, that he'd carry EVERYWHERE... When he was younger he LOVED to wear lipstick--now he likes the flavored glosses. I've also henna'ed him lots of times, which he loves!

exDP hates when I let him do this, but he never prevents him from doing it (I think it's the crap that he gets from his family...When are you taking that polish of his nails, Jamaal? Jamaal, when are you getting that boys hair cut? etc etc etc....and I think he's worried that we'll "turn him gay" or something....but deep down I don't think he cares that much, because he gives in very easily)

My son is "DeVante" first, male second. I want him to learn to be happy with what he chooses/wears/likes/enjoys, not to do things that others like, or that others expect him to like. His self esteem is SO important to me, and I want him to know that his opinions matter, that he has a say in his life, that he can feel comfotable doing/feeling what he likes, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

And if he turns out to be gay, he turns out to be gay.







Either way, I have some great photos to show his future husband or wife!
:LOL


----------



## eilonwy

My son doesn't like to wear dresses much, but if he did we'd let him.







It's just not a big deal.

He picked out a pair of flowered shorts last week (boys, but very bright and ...well, floral :LOL) and they're his favorite item of clothing, he wears them whenever they're clean and insists on sleeping in them many nights. :LOL It's not a big deal for us.









I didn't get him the pink shoes he picked out last year, but that was because I was sick of explaining to people that he was, in fact, a boy; if he chooses pink shoes in the fall this year, he'll wear pink shoes. No big thing.


----------



## Evergreen

I don't see why it would be a big deal. We get most of dd's clothes from the boy section and have already decided if we have a boy he'll wear her handmedowns regardless of clolr.

Unfortunately, children are given so little chances to make their own decisions I really feel that they should have total reign over what they wear.


----------



## Greaseball

Quote:

And if he turns out to be gay, he turns out to be gay. Either way, I have some great photos to show his future husband or wife!
And maybe you'll get to march in one of those parades with him!







:


----------



## CookieMonsterMommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
And maybe you'll get to march in one of those parades with him!







:


:LOL
I could blow up the pic I have of him at 4 months, with his long curly hair up in about 10 tiny colorful butterfly pins and his toes painted pink and write underneath "Here: Proof that you're BORN that way!"


----------



## its_our_family

I'm not sure. On on ehand I'm fine with it. ON the other it just seems....weird. Not that if your son wears a dress I will think mean thoughts about you or your child but I'm not sure.

I guess if he really really wanted to. I woudn't suggest he wear it though. It would totally have to be his choice.

As for my dh... my dh wears eye make-up, eyeliner and shadow and nail polish. Not all the time but only when we go out in "dress". He wears 4-6 rings everyday and a hemp choker and necklace I made him. He'll wear womens socks...we share









My ds wears nail polish and has at times been seen in lipstick/gloss and eyeshadow.

I'm almost more comfortable with males wearing makeup than wearing "women's" clothes.

I say that and I think back and yesterday I found a skirt that would have looke hot on dh....it was long and black. It will look great...and I say "will" because I'll make him one this weekend







I hope he'll wear it!


----------



## its_our_family

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi*
I think I'd recommend to him that he shave his legs before putting on pantyhose, though. Those things can really pull your leg hair!


Dh shaved last night but he says pantyhose feel icky on his skin :LO


----------



## mamajama

For anyone who voted "NO": I am so curious as to why. I realize that for some, it is worry about what the neighbours would think or say but that doesn't really make too much sense. I mean, surely we all teach our kids that people have different opinions and that some may not understand our choices and therefore make stupid remarks. This actually happened to my son







which is one of the reasons why he only wears "feminine" things in private. But that's his choice and I respect it.
So what is the reason (if any). Is it your own personal sense of esthetics? If so, do you also dictate how they can decorate their rooms or what specific "boy's" clothes they can wear? Not bating, just asking here.
Is it fear that they will be confused about what gender they are?
Is it fear that they may be gay and you are afraid to face that?
Is it immoral?
Are you worried they may get cold?
Are you worried about them not fitting in with their peers?
Do you allow them to wear costumes (superhero, animal etc?)
I would love to understand.

My ex partner (male) used to wear dresses sometimes and he looked hot.


----------



## Mothra

I think I've been pretty clear on why I've said that I wouldn't let my 3yo wear a dress in public. I'm not worried about what people would think, I'm worried about what they might say or do to him. Men and boys who have long hair are not attacked for having long hair in public. Men and boys in this society who dress as women are in physical danger in public. I wouldn't let my son wear a dress in public until he could understand the potential consequences. My 7yo can wear whatever he wants wherever he wants.

I have no moral objections.
I have no aesthetic objections.
Boys who wear superhero clothes in public are "cute", so I'm not sure how that is relevant.

I'm not trying to convince anyone else to not let their toddler son wear a dress in public, but I think I've been clear in stating why I would not.


----------



## celestialdreamer

If I had a DS I wouldn't mind if that is what he really wanted to do. Although I'm not sure what my MIL would say...she told me that when my DH was about 5 yrs old he wanted to wear one of his sister's dresses to kindergarten. She said she didn't want him to and the only thing she could think of to say was "If you want to wear a dress, we have to cut your thingie off because you will be a girl".





















This is one example of why I try to steer clear of my MIL. Oh, and she just LOVES to tell that story too!


----------



## Zaxmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mothra*
I think I've been pretty clear on why I've said that I wouldn't let my 3yo wear a dress in public. I'm not worried about what people would think, I'm worried about what they might say or do to him. Men and boys who have long hair are not attacked for having long hair in public. Men and boys in this society who dress as women are in physical danger in public. I wouldn't let my son wear a dress in public until he could understand the potential consequences. My 7yo can wear whatever he wants wherever he wants.

I have no moral objections.
I have no aesthetic objections.
Boys who wear superhero clothes in public are "cute", so I'm not sure how that is relevant.

I'm not trying to convince anyone else to not let their toddler son wear a dress in public, but I think I've been clear in stating why I would not.


I totally agree...you hit my nail on the head Mothra


----------



## celestialdreamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mothra*
I'm not worried about what people would think, I'm worried about what they might say or do to him.

That is a good point...hmmm


----------



## zinemama

My ds wore a dress all last summer. He was 4 at the time. After a year with the colorfully dressed girls at preschool, he asked me for a dress, and since my mother had sent out a whole box of my childhood clothes in the hope that the new baby would be a girl and wear them (sorry, Grandma!) I went right down into the basement and found one for him.

It was a lovely, blue and white checked sleeveless dress with a white, lacy collar. He looked beautiful in it, like the girl I'll never have. And he loved it. He called it his "work dress" because it was nice and cool so he could do all his work (putting out imaginary fires in the back yard, mostly).

How did people react? Strangers assumed he was a girl, with good reason. The friends and neighbors on our street, after they got over the initial surprise, just took it as a manifestation of ds's independent spirit. It was absolutely not a big deal.


----------



## mamajama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mothra*
I think I've been pretty clear on why I've said that I wouldn't let my 3yo wear a dress in public. I'm not worried about what people would think, I'm worried about what they might say or do to him. Men and boys who have long hair are not attacked for having long hair in public. Men and boys in this society who dress as women are in physical danger in public. I wouldn't let my son wear a dress in public until he could understand the potential consequences. My 7yo can wear whatever he wants wherever he wants.

I have no moral objections.
I have no aesthetic objections.
Boys who wear superhero clothes in public are "cute", so I'm not sure how that is relevant.

I'm not trying to convince anyone else to not let their toddler son wear a dress in public, but I think I've been clear in stating why I would not.

I do think your concerns are valid. And I found your opinion to be clear.








So if it's physical attack that worries you (and I know this has happened and does happen







) Then wouldn't your 7 yr old be in danger as well? I think it is relevent about the superhero point because I think that little kids expressing themselves through dressup is cute (an aesthetic opinion) no matter what the costume is. Boys this young often will wear a dress for the same reason they want to wear a superhero costume. Just to express themselves and play pretend.
There are some people who are so threatened by another person expressing him/herself creatively that they lash out violently. Usually this happens in the age range of 12-35ish and it happens for all sorts of reasons. A 19yr old walking in to a sports bar dressed up as Robin is probably almost as likely to be beat up as one wearing a dress.


----------



## stirringleaf

i am in the " i am worried what people might do to him " camp.

like if he were school aged, i would feel responsible if i sent him to school with a dress on and he got beat up for it. i would have known the risk in that happening. not fair or cool that it happens, but it is still my responsibility to protect my son until he is old enough to handle that for himself and make his own choice.

he is 3 now, and so i am not worred he would be attacked. i would just worry he would get confused himself when people called him a girl, or if someone said something weird to him for having a dress on. not cuz i think he shouldnt be feminine , but because he is still learning definitions of words and it might just be too over-his-head to sort through all the subtlties at this age.

the people we know , like if we ran into them at the grocery store, even if they were accepting of him, would most likely make comments and make it into a big deal---i mean even tons of attention for the dress would put so much emphasis on it that i just think it would be appropriate to wait till he is older and understands societal expectaions a little more so if he wants to be an activist about it, he can sort of tell what he is getting into.


----------



## happyhippiemama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
Mine will. At my request.










*turning green with envy*

OMGoddess I'm so jealous. You lucky, lucky woman you.


----------



## gardenmommy

I'm also voting no. I want my boys to look like boys, and my girls to look like girls.

And I don't want my dh to even *think* of wearing pantyhose and pink lace!!


----------



## Emzachsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
I don't get this. It's a big deal, but you don't have a reason?

I can't imagine basing parenting decisions on this logic (or lack thereof). There must be more to it?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vermillion*
But why? You have to have a reason other than just because, no? I understand that everyone feels differently about this, but I am just sooooo curious of the reasons behind it.

Actually we don't have another reason other than it makes us uncomfortable. And that is enough for us.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna*
ok seriously, I try not to make decisions without having some basis for it. Especially when it's one that involves my child. "Beause I said so" is never an acceptable reason in my house.

Well in our house 'Because I said so' is an acceptable reason.







We are the parents and there are some decisions that will be made that the kids don't always like. We don't take the kids feeling into consideration for *every* decision we make....most of them but not every one.


----------



## Emzachsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmommy*
I'm also voting no. I want my boys to look like boys, and my girls to look like girls.

And I don't want my dh to even *think* of wearing pantyhose and pink lace!!


----------



## umefey

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mountain*
Shame on us for not celebrating those differences as a beautiful part of humanity, instead hiding under some weird "moral" that requires a person to shame another for doing something *gasp* outside their box.


----------



## Arduinna

Quote:

Well in our house 'Because I said so' is an acceptable reason.
You might want to read up on the implications of teaching your children to do as they are told just because you said so. One of them is that it makes them easier prey for pedophiles, and it definately sets a bad precedant when it comes to peer pressure.


----------



## Dragonfly

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmommy*
I'm also voting no. I want my boys to look like boys, and my girls to look like girls.

Why? And does this mean that you also wouldn't let your boy child have long hair or your girl child have short hair if they wanted it?


----------



## mamajama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmommy*
I'm also voting no. I want my boys to look like boys, and my girls to look like girls.

And I don't want my dh to even *think* of wearing pantyhose and pink lace!!

Soooo, what if your girl-child is very masculine-looking (no matter what she wears) as she grows. Will that upset you? What if your boy is thin and frail and into crochet? I have friends who started out seeming like girls (due to their genitalia) and ended up hormonally as transgendered. There are many, many people in this situation. What would you do then?
And what if your dh does have these thoughts (I mean we really cannot control what others think or fantasize about) Would you get a divorce? Would he feel comfortable telling you? Would your child feel comfortable coming to you if he/she were gay or questioning?


----------



## Emzachsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna*
You might want to read up on the implications of teaching your children to do as they are told just because you said so. One of them is that it makes them easier prey for pedophiles, and it definately sets a bad precedant when it comes to peer pressure.

My kids are taught to do what *their parents* tell them just because we say so....we also teach them that they shouldn't do that with anyone else. They do know the difference.


----------



## LDSmomma6

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Emzachsmama*
I have to be honest...no I wouldn't. I guess I'm pretty old fashioned that way ~ dresses are for girls, not boys.









:


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## Greaseball

And my kids are taught that their parents are frequently wrong and have no idea what they are talking about. :LOL They shouldn't always listen to us; they should always listen to themselves.


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2much2luv*
Would you let your 3 year old ds wear a dress out of the house? 







:

Yes. Really, what would it matter? Then again, you're speaking to a mama who let her three-year-old daughter wear a tutu all day running errands, so...


----------



## KermitMissesJim

Around the house, in the yard, in the neighborhood, for Halloween, sure. To school, the store or a restaurant? No. He looks nothing like a girl, and would be ridiculed at the very least.

ETA: Mothra's explanation works well for me, too.


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Emzachsmama*
I have to be honest...no I wouldn't. I guess I'm pretty old fashioned that way ~ dresses are for girls, not boys.

How 'bout a kilt? Would you let him wear a kilt? Those are "for boys".


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eightyferrettoes*
Eh-- he wouldn't be nekkid!









I like how you think!


----------



## User101

Quote:

Boys should dress like boys puh-leeze. And who's the grand puba that decided what is "boy dress".
Oh, that would be me. I am the grand puba, the queen of all I survey, and the final arbitrar of what is gender appropriate. And I say dresses for everyone is fine. However, I hearby decree that there will be no more pants with writing across the butt, because that is just wrong.

Quote:

Better tell those priests & reverends to watch out, they wear really long dresses...
My husband wears a "dress" every Sunday. Note to self- tell Pastor he is morally on shaky ground,


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amybw*
What if your DH or male DP decided he wanted to wear dresses, pink and lacey ones. And pantyhose, high heels and make up.

I know that there are men who wear dresses, but what if he just decided this? what would you think? Self expression coming out?

just thinking out loud...

Seems to me that you are thinking outloud about two completely different situations. BTW, I think your sig may be against the rules, unless you are paying for advertising.


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmommy*
I'm also voting no. I want my boys to look like boys, and my girls to look like girls.

And I don't want my dh to even *think* of wearing pantyhose and pink lace!!

OK, while I agree 100% with you on the second point (Dh looks like crap in pink) I don't get the first. My baby (see blog) has gorgeous eyelashes and the darkest brown eyes you have ever seen. He is constantly called "she" no matter what he is wearing. I just think people should be people regardless of what they are wearing, and I think we should do everything we can to drive this point home while they are little. My children are not defined by their sexual organs, or by their dress.


----------



## User101

Wow. I just totally serial posted on this thread.


----------



## KermitMissesJim

Totally, AnnetteMarie. TwoP would have kicked you off for that! :LOL


----------



## Arduinna

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
My husband wears a "dress" every Sunday. Note to self- tell Pastor he is morally on shaky ground,


:LOL


----------



## Moss's Mommy

WOOOOOOOO. Just throw all that AP stuff out the window.
MUCH!!!!
I wish I could find a dress around this god forbidden house!!!!!!!! I don't even own one for myself, so he hasn't asked, but if he does.... we will throw that puppy on. and sport it all over this little Mississippi town.
But he hasn't asked yet.


----------



## Emzachsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
How 'bout a kilt? Would you let him wear a kilt? Those are "for boys".

If we were Scottish, then yes I would because it is traditional for Scottish men to wear kilts. But we aren't Scottish so....nope no kilts for my boy.


----------



## mamajama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Emzachsmama*
If we were Scottish, then yes I would because it is traditional for Scottish men to wear kilts. But we arene't Scottish so....nope no kilts for my boy.

What heritage are your ancestors from? I ask, because it would give me an idea of the outfits your kids do wear.


----------



## julielenore

At home yes, in public, no.

I live in a very small, sometimes sufficating, town. If I let my ds wear one (he is 9) The "townfolk" would never let him forget it. He would most definately be the target of intense critism and teasing. If I lived somewhere else my answer might be different.

Julie (wishing she lived somewhere else)


----------



## thismama

I don't understand making decisions about things because you are "uncomfortable" - to me it's important to look a little deeper and discover exactly what my discomfort is about. Maybe that's why we come from such different places on this issue, Emzachsmama.


----------



## Emzachsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajama*
What heritage are your ancestors from? I ask, because it would give me an idea of the outfits your kids do wear.









I don't have much idea what our heritage is.....I think there is some Ukranian way far back but we only really identify as Canadian. :LOL

As far was what my kids wear. My son wears shorts/pants and t-shirts/sweatshirts and my daughter wears mostly skirts and dresses and occasionally pants and a t-shirt. And yes I do consider it ok for my dd to wear pants sometimes even though I don't think it would be ok for my ds to wear a dress.


----------



## ChiroMum

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Emzachsmama*
If we were Scottish, then yes I would because it is traditional for Scottish men to wear kilts. But we aren't Scottish so....nope no kilts for my boy.

The Irish wear kilts too!!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
However, I hearby decree that there will be no more pants with writing across the butt, because that is just wrong.

I'll second this!

And to answer the op, if I had a ds, I'd let him wear whatever he wanted and be thankful that he WANTED to wear clothes! :LOL


----------



## sistermama

I would (and do) let my son where anything he wants. He has worn fairy wings, tiaras, makeup, long pieces of fabric tied in various ways, etc. out in public. Maybe we never received a comment or even a weird look because they were so obviously dress-up things, but if he ever wanted to wear a dress I would let him. If anyone ever said anything (which I would be shocked if they did) they would get a piece of my mind, thereby teaching ds a lesson in standing up for your individual choices/expressions.

As far as an older boy wanting to wear a dress to school (like an 8 year old), I would be surprised if that actually ever happened due to the pressures they would have already been exposed to in the school group. But, if my son (of that age) did want to, I would have a talk with him about how some people don't think boys should wear dresses and might give him a hard time, although we think people should wear what they please. If he still chose to wear it, than that would be his decision.


----------



## eightyferrettoes

Man, can anyone believe what a long thread this is? I figured everyone here'd say, "Sure, whatever." Such passion!

FWIW, I went to high school in Hawai'i, with a 250 pound guy who wore a pink wrap around sarong every single day, Lemme tell you, NOBODY said one word about it.


----------



## KermitMissesJim

See, if we lived in Hawaii, we'd all wear lava-lavas every day. It's the culture there.

Ds could wear a kilt. Dh and I both have scottish ancestry.


----------



## mightymoo

I would probably not without a big discussion about how society and gender roles work and if he really seemed adamant about it. It's one thing if its something really important to him, its another thing if it was just a whim on his part. I would want to expose him to a society that doesn't handle stuff like this well without him having some understanding (at least at a primitive level) of what he's getting into. I wouldn't want him to get hurt.


----------



## chikletto

I would like to think that I would let my son wear a dress wherever he wanted to but if we were going somewhere where people might give him a hard time about it (and where I live that's likely to happen) I think I would think twice. I don't have a problem with it though, and it always amazes me how much people make of gender at such a young age. I was at the supermarket and the cashier told me that I should dress him in blue when I take him out so people know he's a boy, and my husband's friend told him that we're going to turn him into a mama's boy by co-sleeping and not letting him "cry it out". I just don't get it...he's only six months old.


----------



## edamommy

no. I wouldn't. I don't even let him wear stained shirts out of the house! LOL. If he wants to wear a dress when he's older- so be it... but not on my watch. I don't know WHY I wouldn't let him- but I wouldn't.







:


----------



## lerlerler

My husband's rugby team is filled with "islanders" wearing sarongs....

Hmmm.. no one teases the 250+ pound guys from Tonga, Fiji etc... wonder why?

DD will grow up with these guys. I wonder if she'll ever tell me that she doesn't want to wear a dress because they are for boys?


----------



## southerngul

As I mentioned over on the "should girls wear pants in public" thread- I let my ds wear pretty much whatever he wants. He has worn my old dancing costumes, feather boas, high-healed dress up shoes, his sisters clothes, makeup, finger nail polish and hair bows from time to time. His favorite color is pink and he has often lamented that boys clothing doesn't come in pink or have sparkily stuff on it. He also "nurses" babydolls and wears them in slings. He says he's gonna be a daddy when he grows up







These days though, he spend most of his time in his Spiderman costume from last halloween that is literally coming apart at the seams. Really, what my kids wear is the least of my worries. And for what's it's worth- I teach them that it's not important what other people think about them. The only thing that matters is what they think of themselves.


----------



## Hey Mama!

It's culturally acceptable for Pacific Islanders to wear sarongs, I see it often living in Hawaii. Oh, to see the buff guys in sarongs, yummy!

But, I don't know how I would handle this question, my knee jerk answer is to say no.


----------



## TiredX2

This is a hard one for me.

I want to say, "Hell YES."

But I wonder... is that only because DS has never expressed an interest? I don't count "dress up" clothes as a dress (even princess or fairy or playsilk skirts or whatever) because that is pretend. But if I was going to take DS to get his picture taken and had picked out his shorts, polo & sweater vest and he said, "No I want to wear this dress instead" could I *actually* suck it up and say, "Great" or would I waffle, make excuses?

I did recently realize that although he reports his favorite colors as "Red, pink and purple" I buy the vast majority of his clothes in... blue. So I asked him "DS would you like a pink shirt" and then went to Old Navy yesterday and got him a pink polo. He really likes it, but not more than any other shirt (and, btw, that is the *only* color polo they have left--- the blue, yellow, etc... are long gone).

He wears nail polish w/impunity. He chooses his own hair (wears a small pony on top of his head many days, is in the process of growing it out). He wore a pink leotard to gymnastics. But I *do* encourage him to wear swim trunks (he HAS worn a girls swimsuit before, though).

I *think* that I would be great w/DS wearing a skirt/dress to something "normal" (preschool, shopping, etc...). Less so for pictures, special holiday function, etc... BUT this is something that really disappoints me about myself and I work against. I would *LOVE* DS to wear a kilt and am searching for one--- if anyone has an idea where to get a 3T kilt for cheapish please let me know. But a dress?

I guess one major issue is that I just don't like kids in dresses much. When DD was DS's age I had her wear pants to family functions (holidays & such). Now she is older and generally chooses to "dress up."

I would have no issue with an older boy wearing a dress or skirt. I would explain that some (rude, ignorant) people may have an issue with it but that it was his choice and *I* would support it. I guess I also just get sick of being "that freak"







and it seems like one more battle that doesn't *seem* important to DS.

Okay, I guess I answered my own question. If it was important to DS? Yes. Am I going to go buy him dresses like I buy him other clothing without him requesting it? No.

Except a kilt. Because that would be just TOOOOO cute.


----------



## member

Considering my DP is into drag and my best girlfriend is a H.I.S. King, I think any kid of mine will be all about queering gender and wearing whatever feels good at the moment.


----------



## Ruthla

Yes, and I've done it. At age 3 they're still babies.

If he wanted to wear a dress in public at age 15, it would be another story (and, as I've never been the mom of a 15yo boy who wanted to wear dresses, I'll reserve judgement on that for now as well.)


----------



## Potty Diva

I understand we all do things and make decisions we feel are in the best interest of our families. I must say that I am thankful to whatever evolutionary process that has helped me to become as openminded and nonjudgmental of things like this. And I am happy that my children will not feel afraid or hindered in the creative development because of it.


----------



## Greaseball

My brother wore girls' clothes to school in high school - sparkly spaghetti-strap tops, long skirts, and makeup. It was so funny!


----------



## EFmom

I don't have boys, but if I did, I probably would say no. Mothra's explanation about sums it up for me. I'd be fine with boys wearing whatever they wanted around the house, but out in public, probably not.


----------



## stayinghome

yeah i would


----------



## GoodWillHunter

I have to say that I really don't give a spider's butt what my sons wear in public. At least at age 3. My 3 year old quite frequently wears his sister's clothing, shoes, socks, underwear, whatever. If it's pink, it's his. He LOVES pink. I have let him wear full make up, fingernail polish, whatever. I do, however, draw the line at wearing a dress to family parties due to the crap that I'd get from my parents.

My son is allowed to live his life free of the baggage that I carry.







Little girls can wear blue and pants, then little boys can wear pink and dresses.


----------



## psyche

Hmmm...







:

I would probably not let him wear a dress out of the house, no. I can see it becoming an issue if we had a dress, however.

I do let him get the pink balloon at Trader Joe's if he wants it (66% of the time). I do let him wear the sparkly pink high heel shoes up and down an aisle when we're shoe shopping (it never fails with the sparkly pink high heels). I paint his toenails when he asks (when I'm doing my own).

But I've recently drawn a line at making him a pink tie-dye shirt with a heart on it so I think that wearing a dress out in public is probably past that line.

A non-dress dresslike article of clothing, though, might be acceptable (traditional Chinese robe, kilt, etc.).


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## jenaniah

Sure...I htink my brother went through a phase of wearing dresses and his hair in clips. When I have a boy of my own I really want to get a kilt in our Clan's Tartan. And Haley can wear whatever she wants. She wears Max's hand-me-downs all the time...even underwear a few times (hey when you have an accident and don't have spares you do what you gotta do) She is absolutely adorable with her hair in long pigtails, her sparkly beads and Max's Cargo pants and Star Wars t-shirts


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## sapphire_chan

Probably, but only because I'm not likely to ever own something sleazy. (Don't ask me to define sleazy :LOL )

I'm going to try to refrain (never say never it'll come back to haunt you) from forcing any of my future children to wear dresses. :LOL


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## gridley13

Anyone else thinking someone should open an online store and make "boyish" dresses? For boys AND girls of course.


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## nicole lisa

DS has worn dresses outside of the house - he's 4.5. I can't imagine anyone ever saying something to him. He's always dressed different than other kids and no one has ever said anything, apart from making the mistake of assuming he's a girl, but that happens when he's in jeans and a sweatshirt. He has long hair (actually a fashion mullet as my brother and his friends call it - he's been growing out his mohawk)

I think the safety stuff would be a bigger issue when he's older, but not when he's still pre-school. I've never heard of a pre-schooler being physically or even verbally attacked for dress before. That would really shock me.

Most of DS' clothes come from the girls dept - he likes 70s stuff so it's easier to dress him from there. Flared jeans, closer cut t-shirts etc. I think he finds the baggy and straight hanging styles in the boy's dept to get in his way when he's running or hanging upside down. Yoga pants are just easier to be active in than baggy khakis.


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## Jennifer3141

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenaniah*
Sure...She is absolutely adorable with her hair in long pigtails, her sparkly beads and Max's Cargo pants and Star Wars t-shirts

She sounds like the world's cutest kid to me!

Jen


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## its_our_family

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gridley13*
Anyone else thinking someone should open an online store and make "boyish" dresses? For boys AND girls of course.


I mentioned this topic to dh last night and asked for his opinion. He was unsure. He knows I hate gender lines and such. He said, I think it woul dbe ok as long as it were a "boys skirt". I guess that means not frilly.


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## its_our_family

I forgot to mention that I asked him about wearing a dress for himself. He said no. BUt he would wear a skirt if it was long and made for him. I don't have time this weekend but when I get it made I'll post pics


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## spatulagirl

I just remembered that several years ago there were dresses/skirts for guys. Any ex-partyers or ravers might remember them. I went to several parties where guys (teens/20s) wore them.

I moved overseas shortly after so I don't know if they caught on! But guys in other countries wear skirts/sarongs... and man.. nothing sexier than that!


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## bobica

No, most likely not. Personal esthetics is the main reason. We live in a pretty conservative excessively mainstream area, so that definitely factors in as well. I don't draw any gender line on colors- dd looks gorgeous in blue & she wears a lot of it, even when she was shiny-bald! :LOL if i have a boy, he can wear pink & he'll most certainly have dolls. He'll also grow up with a lot less of the gender stereotypes that most boys around here will, but dresses will be in-house only.


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## Rhonwyn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *its_our_family*
I mentioned this topic to dh last night and asked for his opinion. He was unsure. He knows I hate gender lines and such. He said, I think it woul dbe ok as long as it were a "boys skirt". I guess that means not frilly.










you should check out utilikilts. They are hot on men!


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## lunamomma

I have two boys and they pretty much wear what they want. Both wear lavender, pink and other colors traditionally associated with girls, they also have dolls, a baby stroller, dress up clothes, love to wear jewelry(all kinds) This is interesting because my dh is very senstive about this because he was called pretty boy his whole life and so we got a navy and white "dress" for our youngest and I put him in it for bed (cotton kids, really very plain could be seen as a long shirt) and dh went crazy he was like, "We can't let him wear a dress" I am all, " He's going to bed, at least he's had a bath and he's comfortable."

I feel like I try to respect my children's creative choices even if it causes a bit of stress for others.


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## travellingmom

My DS is 5 and loves his Snow White dress. When he first got it last year he wore it all day, every day. And I don't remember getting any negative reactions. This morning he had a dress on as well, but he took it off (and put his shorts back on) to go to the grocery store. I think he's getting more self-conscious.


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## wende

I would never, ever let my son wear a dress!


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## mountain

It would be so interesting to me to see how many men who are "secret deviant" cross-dressers--had parents that didn't allow them to wear dresses.

Not saying cross-dressers are deviant BTW







:


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## 2much2luv

: wende.


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## TigerTail

i'm with mothra here. i don't live in a vacuum (and most of the judgement i'm seeing here is towards those who said respectfully, 'no, not us.')

i think informing small children of what is culturally acceptable in their area of the world is necessary (i.e., i cannot walk in the front yard starkers, tho' i'd love to- an old nudist here), & i don't think promoting our own values at the expense of a child's self-esteem is a very kind or thoughtful way to handle it.

my bio dad is a drag queen, the boys love boas & have gotten their nails done, played with make-up, have a doll stroller, & worn their sister's frilliest party dresses at home. i won't even get into my past (not enough time, lol.) you can try to paint anyone who would hesitate as a 'red-state' homophobe, but i'll laugh (and so would anybody who knows me well here from the old days.) won't wash. i, an old subscriber to 'tapestry', am not weirded out by the idea.

what i am weirded out by is letting my kid be unnecessarily ridiculed. you can work on changing the attitude of the world without using your small child to make the point. if i lived in berkeley or eugene & it was a common thing, sure. but i don't. tie-dyes with pink in the spiral is about as daring as we get. not so much physical safety, as mothra worried about (mama bear isn't going to let anyone hurt her cubs- ask the last rotten big kid to shove my toddler off the water fountain), but psychological.

a boy in a dress (no, not a kilt or pacific islander dress- we are talking culturally appropriate) in this society is going to be ostracized, whether you are astute enough to notice (or have a 'screw those bad people, we don't care what they think!' attitude) or not. it's not fair to dump that on my kids to deal with. they come first, before my agenda, however important my agenda is in the scheme of things.

interesting parallels with nursing in public, but for me that is a 'screw the bad people' matter. :LOL if half the people with babies are visible public nursers, that *can* change the world. one kid in a tutu is just going to be tortured; no one is going to have a paradigm shift unless everyone was doing it. and frankly, most little boys are going to resist the plan. 

i *don't* think it is a big deal. last week, the boys were playing next door & changed clothes after getting wet into some pretty girly togs (pink shorts with bows, etc.) everyone knew it was because they needed dry clothes & the little girl next door was just sharing, no biggie, even in my rural, christian, conservative neighborhood. but i think that is different from the situation of putting them in it for school or church or whatever.

anyway, jmho. i'll let my kids in pink shorts play with your boys in dresses, i don't give a damn. but the 'so you wouldn't? huh? huh? why? what's wrong with you?' underlying parts of this thread needs to chill. imho.

ps there any psychologists here? (bunny'smama? you around?) curious to know what they think.

suse


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## wende

I can understand what you're saying Suse, but I got that same arguement when I let my kids color their hair, or let my ds get a mohawk. My oldest was 4 when she asked for purple hair. I let her color it. My dad teased her, saying she looked like Barney, she said "I don't care. I like my hair purple." My ds was in kindergarten when he asked for a mohawk. Every adult I knew was mortified that I let him do it. He got all sorts of comments. His attitude was also "who cares? I like it and that's what matters." Of course, the most horrified of them all were the parents of the kids coming home going "why can Aspen have a mohawk when I can't? I want one too!"

Granted, wearing a dress is not the same thing, but kids are not always worried about what others think and can fend off those comments quite well, even at a young age, if they are given the proper platform and have self confidence...which I imagine they must have in order to even dare something so "out there" in this society.


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## TigerTail

yeah, i get you- it's not black & white. some bounderies must be crossed if we are to remain free individuals (and the erosion of freedom in this country is despicable.) my dd did just get her tongue pierced <g> (which kind of freaks me out- me, who didn't flinch at multible labe piercings, lol) and a mohawk, well, people have gotten used to that now that all us old punks are decrepit & reliving our party days. it's fashionably nostalgic. :LOL

i will say an older child with an idea of what they are getting into will get less argument from me. there's got to be a balance between protecting an innocent toddler who wouldn't understand why playing dressup would get him laughed at, & protecting the rights of an older kid who is willing to take some lumps to express him (or her) self.

suse


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## CookieMonsterMommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *suseyblue*
a boy in a dress (no, not a kilt or pacific islander dress- we are talking culturally appropriate) in this society is going to be ostracized, whether you are astute enough to notice (or have a 'screw those bad people, we don't care what they think!' attitude) or not. it's not fair to dump that on my kids to deal with. they come first, before my agenda, however important my agenda is in the scheme of things.

suse

Just wondering if you see those of us who allow "strange" things as dumping stuff on our kids? I'm not sure many of us are saying "C'mon Bobby, c'mon Vinny, c'mon joey! Go outside in a dress now! So what the whole block is waiting outside laughing! Go outside and express your individuality!!" YKWIM? So I'm not sure what you mean by "dumping" things on kids.

*My main concern here (agenda?) is letting my son decide what he wants to do and to feel comfortable making those decisions.* If he decides that the ridicule or comments are too much, or not worth the effort, than that's fine--it's what he's decided, and I'll support that.

Wende--Your kids sound amazing!







My 6y/o DS is just getting comfortable saying "I'm a boy. I just have long hair" or "I don't care, I like my cornrows" or "So what? I like the way this outfit looks". (btw-we weren't able to get the mohawk, but had some pretty freakin cool spikes! I'll try to get a pic







).

Kelly


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## Delta

No, I would not let my son wear a dress out of the house. And probably not in the house either.


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## DaisyRose

After reading this thread, I soooooo want a son! Just so I can see him wearing his sister's dresses and lipgloss and tiara and sparkly shoes!

I never thought about the cute factor!

I want a boy! I want a boy!

I wonder if all the posters who are so adamant that their sons will NOT wear dresses are as restrictive with their daughters?

My girls have overalls, hardhats, toolbelts, swords, shields, football jerseys and even a Boy Scout uniform we got a garage sale. They get mistaken for boys in these clothes, but so what? Big deal.


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## djinneyah

just wanted to jump on the kilt-wearing bandwagon. dh wears kilts when not at work. he even tried getting his boss to approve a "uniform" kilt (he's a security guard). it was a no-go, but he tried! ds will bring me his kilt to put on him, and we'll go out. we get lots of stares, nervous giggles, etc., but who cares? they're comfortable, that's all that matters.

check our family pics for ds in his kilt


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## loveharps

I've loved seeing all the cute little boys in their kilts!! I want one for my ds now (no scottish blood here though, so maybe its not ok?)

As for men in kilts









I have a question for all those who say no to their sons wearing dresses (I'm genuinely curious - not being snarky) Do you only let your children play with gender specific toys? As in, if your son wanted a doll or tea set for example, or your daughter wanted to play with cars or tools, would you let them?


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## kiahnsmum

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loveharps*
I have a question for all those who say no to their sons wearing dresses (I'm genuinely curious - not being snarky) Do you only let your children play with gender specific toys? As in, if your son wanted a doll or tea set for example, or your daughter wanted to play with cars or tools, would you let them?

Just because you like playing with trucks!!
Well i know you dont have any problems with boys wearing dresses after i came to pick my son up from your house and he had you retro green dress on and your favourite pink lippy!! :LOL


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## loveharps

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kiahnsmum*
Just because you like playing with trucks!!
Well i know you dont have any problems with boys wearing dresses after i came to pick my son up from your house and he had you retro green dress on and your favourite pink lippy!! :LOL


It was his idea, ok!!!! (well maybe the handbag was _my_ idea







)


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## kiahnsmum

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loveharps*
It was his idea, ok!!!! (well maybe the handbag was _my_ idea







)

What about the high-heels and eye shadow??


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## loveharps

:


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## kiahnsmum

Whew! Finally read the thread.
Has anyones young ds ever actually worn a dress to school,, because some people are concerned about the school thing. My ds has 'grown' out of the wearing dress thing now hes at school he wont even wear pink cos its a girls colour.
I dont think that there is anything wrong with boys wearing dresses i just wondered if anyones ds had worn one to school and what the reaction was.
I kinda dont think that there would be many school aged boys that would want to wear dresses in public cos they usually know what their peers response will be, teenage boys are different tho there were plenty of guys at my high school that came in dresses and not one of them was gay!
Would love to post a cute pic of ds in his auntys dress but he wont let me! :LOL


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## CryPixie83

Why not? We dress DD in boys clothes all the time. On purpose. :LOL I guess I want people to mistake her for a boy so they tell her she's big and strong instead of just pretty


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## TigerTail

lol, yesterday *would* be the day my dd decided to have a 'fashion show' with the boys (nighties, skirts, lipstick, girly hats, etc.) and took pix. <g>

however, if we had left them that way when i went out to kmart later, yes, i think i would have been, er, remiss.

(and they do have an olivia tea set, which they play with in their faerie house. satisfied?)

...so, the militant agenda of those poking and prodding these reactionary horrible conservatives- no doubt christians!- here is all in my head, eh? i am being paranoid or you are being ingenuous, take your pick. i realize you can't come out & call them 'homophobes' here for having an issue with crossdressing their kids, but one can only speculate on why you are taking such issue with their simple replies. it's all kind of ironic, since the vast majority of crossdressers are hetero, anyway.

i would rather engage my sisters (both religious & otherwise) who disagree with me about homosexuality per se in loving dialogue than patronizing jibes- much more effective. (would you rather drive away all fundamentalist/highly conservative parents to the pearls, to have ap all to your crunchy selves? i knew this dress thing was going to be an issue. i'll wager there are a lot more mothers here lurking & thinking 'good god no, i'd never send **** out in public in a dress' that won't even bother to reply because of the vehemence of some who would. but here, i'll catch that grenade. :LOL)

ps i am an old aquaintance of the lady who put phil donohue in a dress on daytime tv.







that was so shocking at the time! anybody remember? (i still have a pair of patent red stiletto 7 inch heels from her store. too bad my feet got fat after two more pregnancies. boy, i wish i had gone to her nye party after all! i'll bet it was a dandy.)

i still say phil d donning that fugly gray dress in front of millions is a different issue than saying to your 4 yr old, "junior! you look fabulous" (my ds's fav word right now :LOL), "let's go to the mall."

lob it at me! suse


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## Delta

The fact that I would not let my son out in public in a dress has nothing to do with homosexuality or anything like that.

I just think it looks freakin' silly and I don't want my son to look silly! It's that simple.

I don't care if others let their kid do it, but it's not happening in my family.


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## rachelle-a-tron

Id definately let my Son out of the house in a dress. When he was about three he wore a sparkly turquoise 70's motorcycle helmet everywhere... I mean everywhere.


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## SparklyMoose

My husband and I just had a discussion about this, after I read to him some people's salient points. We came to the conclusion that clothing, as long as it's seasonally appropriate and age appropriate, is not a battle either of us is willing to fight.

Now, if our son wants to wear a dress before he's in school, whatever. I couldn't care less. Once he gets to school age, we'd talk to him about how other people have rigid ideas of gender, and that he'll likely get made fun of. If he's willing to take the risk, then we'd let him. And if he wants to wear a dress to his senior prom, we'll buy it for him.









The likelihood of him wearing a dress is pretty low, at least when he's young, though. He's the only child at the moment, and I'm not a particularly girly-girl. I own some skirts and a couple of dresses, but rarely wear them. Same with makeup (husband and I have been together for 2.5 years, and he's seen me in makeup MAYBE 6 times). So it's more a lack of access to dresses than anything.

If he chose to wear a dress to school, I would talk to his teacher to let him/her know that we approved of our son making his own clothing decision, and that we'd talked to him about the possible consequences. Just so the teacher was kind of in the know, too.

Gender-specificity is one of the reasons we chose not to find out his sex before birth. If he'd been a girl, he'd have exactly the same clothing that he has now (with the exception of hand-me-down stuff from friends, since it probably wouldn't have occurred to them to pass down boy stuff to a girl).


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## Emzachsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loveharps*
I have a question for all those who say no to their sons wearing dresses (I'm genuinely curious - not being snarky) Do you only let your children play with gender specific toys? As in, if your son wanted a doll or tea set for example, or your daughter wanted to play with cars or tools, would you let them?

I am just fine with my son playing with 'girl' toys and my daughter playing with 'boy' toys, but I draw the line at my son wearing girl clothing.


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## girlndocs

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Delta*
The fact that I would not let my son out in public in a dress has nothing to do with homosexuality or anything like that.

I just think it looks freakin' silly and I don't want my son to look silly! It's that simple.

Soooo, no superhero costumes with capes then? No funny little cowboy boots? No sneakers with irritating little lights? No carrying around oversized stuffed animals? No bed-head hair? No going out in public in Sesame Street pajamas? No pirate hats or construction-worker belts? No orange check shirt with green stripe pants and blue argyle socks he picked out himself?

And your daughters (even if they're hypothetical daughters), they don't have short hair or wear pants? 'Cause that would look silly too


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## edamommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*
Soooo, no superhero costumes with capes then? No funny little cowboy boots? No sneakers with irritating little lights? No carrying around oversized stuffed animals? No bed-head hair? No going out in public in Sesame Street pajamas? No pirate hats or construction-worker belts? No orange check shirt with green stripe pants and blue argyle socks he picked out himself?

And your daughters (even if they're hypothetical daughters), they don't have short hair or wear pants? 'Cause that would look silly too










I am just over that kind of sarcasm... My son walked to the playground yesterday in a frog costume. His buddy was in a power ranger outfit. Yah, they looked silly but they were not wearing dresses--- is it so wrong to say "dresses are for girls"? It's just the way it is in this country. I also don't want my dh wearing a dress. If i had a daughter... she could have short hair and pants- who cares? That's a gender neutral thing... if we were in a different country, maybe a dress would be within my societal comfort level for my ds to wear around... but it's just not that way here. Sure, I could brazonly put him in a dress and parade him around to "make a point" (to THAT I roll MY eyes), but, I pick my big battles and they are things like bf'ing a toddler in public or co-sleeping or cloth diapers or or being a vegetarian... something like that... not wearing a dress. It's just that one step over my comfort line I'm not willing to go. And I think alot of other mamas feel the same way!


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## lotusdebi

*


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## dharmamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2much2luv*
Would you let your 3 year old ds wear a dress out of the house?







:

I have read the OP and only the OP.

Yes, I would, unless it were a situation where my children are expected to be dressed appropriately for the situation (e.g., a wedding. I wouldn't let my daughter wear a tie-dyed t-shirt and cutoff shorts to a wedding, and I wouldn't let my son wear a dress). Other than that, my kids pick their own clothes, and other than making suggestions based on comfort and weather, I don't say a word about it.

Namaste!


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## sweetest

The thing is, if they want to wear a dress when young and told no, for whatever reason, will that want just go away? Or will it linger, turning into shame because "its wrong"?

We all know that a need that is met is no longer a need- isnt that why we breastfeed for years, come to our babies when they cry, etc? I wouldnt tell my baby "I know that you are longing for me to hold you, but its culturally inappropriate." no, of course not. Needs must be met.

If a child needs to figure out some aspect of thier gender, they will. In public or in the closet.

Gender lines are blurry at my house for a variety of reasons. If we had a son, of course Id let him wear a dress. It would probably save him much heartache in the future.


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## findingMYway

I have a son and would say yes. I don't think most of our society is ready for that though. So, we would stay near home. :LOL


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## Ellien C

sure!

And here's a true story. I wear make-up to work during the week. DD likes to sit on my dresser with me and put on make-up while I do it. She grabs the eye shadow brushes and sticks it all over her cheeks and eyes. She can sort of say "blush brush." Usually I can wipe this off but one day I was really in a hurry and she really wanted to eye shadow, so I gave up. DH takes DD to day care that morning and the providers want to know when the black eye appeared. DH isn't sure - she looked OK this morning. Finally one of them figures out it looks more green than black and blue and starts rubbing off the eye shadow. I hear about this in the evening from DH who thinks day care about about to call CPS!







: sorry honey ...


----------



## 2much2luv

Quote:

She grabs the eye shadow brushes and sticks it all over her cheeks and eyes. She can sort of say "blush brush." Usually I can wipe this off but one day I was really in a hurry and she really wanted to eye shadow, so I gave up. DH takes DD to day care that morning and the providers want to know when the black eye appeared. DH isn't sure - she looked OK this morning. Finally one of them figures out it looks more green than black and blue and starts rubbing off the eye shadow. I hear about this in the evening from DH who thinks day care about about to call CPS!
:LOL


----------



## girlndocs

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi*
I just thought, "Poor kid. To have to deal with gender baggage at such a young age."

I'm glad I don't hang out with those moms. I'd hate for them to push their gender expectations on my son.

My stepbrother and his wife won't let their son wear dress-up clothes. ANY kind of dress-up clothes. Because "dress-up is for girls."

















:







:







:

I am so boggled and sad about people who fight hard to secure rights like breastfeeding and intact penises for their sons but give no thought to the RIGHT of their sons to be who they are, who they want to be, without being forced into gender stereotypes.

You can force a square peg into a round hole -- but only by knocking its corners off. I do not have the right to deny my son his preferences in color and dress. He is a beautiful free spirit. He is himself.


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## Kincaid

Would I let my son (when he is 3) wear a dress? No.

My partner and I (both lesbian, both feminists) think dresses are constrictive and connotate certain qualities that we would not want projected onto a 3 year old. Girl or boy. Not everyone thinks frilly and fru-fru are charming. Honestly, I am dismayed by all the princessness crap that is done to little girls. Bringing boys along for the ride doesn't make sense to me either. This is just my opinion, mind you.
Same with nail polish. We would not paint a boy or girl child's nails, no way. Ditto makeup - in my opinion this is not the right message to send a child and not a good way for a child to "play." I feel sorry for the babies and toddlers I see whose parents have their toenails painted or makeup on their faces. I don't feel comfortable with that message.

As for wearing cowboy boots in public? Superheros garb? First, we would not allow a boy or girl child to own anything that is associated with "fighting" or violence. The fantasy and make believe items that we think are okay (there are plenty that don't involve either princesses or fighting figures), those we feel are ok at home but aren't appropriate out and about. I say this having seen a child in cowboy boots go down a slide at the park too quicky after another child, and his boot heel caught her in the eye. Required two dozen stitches. The kid should have had on appropriate footgear at public play equipment for safety reasons. So now when I see a kid in boots out to "play" I see an accident waiting to happen.


----------



## mamajama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kincaid*
Would I let my son (when he is 3) wear a dress? No.

My partner and I (both lesbian, both feminists) think dresses are constrictive and connotate certain qualities that we would not want projected onto a 3 year old. Girl or boy. Not everyone thinks frilly and fru-fru are charming. Honestly, I am dismayed by all the princessness crap that is done to little girls. Bringing boys along for the ride doesn't make sense to me either. This is just my opinion, mind you.
Same with nail polish. We would not paint a boy or girl child's nails, no way. Ditto makeup - in my opinion this is not the right message to send a child and not a good way for a child to "play." I feel sorry for the babies and toddlers I see whose parents have their toenails painted or makeup on their faces. I don't feel comfortable with that message.

As for wearing cowboy boots in public? Superheros garb? First, we would not allow a boy or girl child to own anything that is associated with "fighting" or violence. The fantasy and make believe items that we think are okay (there are plenty that don't involve either princesses or fighting figures), those we feel are ok at home but aren't appropriate out and about. I say this having seen a child in cowboy boots go down a slide at the park too quicky after another child, and his boot heel caught her in the eye. Required two dozen stitches. The kid should have had on appropriate footgear at public play equipment for safety reasons. So now when I see a kid in boots out to "play" I see an accident waiting to happen.

Wow, Kincaid, you have some interesting opinions. If you don't mind, I'm curious about a couple of things. What kinds of make-believe characters are you ok with, that your son wants to play? Do you think it is possible to control the "fantasies" of another person? I mean, I think fantasies are like dreams. A way for the mind to work through thoughts and feelings.
As far as the freak accident with the cowboy boot, is that the only reason you wouldn't allow cowboy boots? I mean, I am willing to bet that about a million times more often, accidents happen at the park because kids are running around playing and burning off steam, than because someone got a cowboy boot in the eye.


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## AdoptChina

hmm...my first guess would be no. My older 2 boys never asked so it was never an issue.....C however is very enamored with his big sisters clothing...so I'll have to see if he asks to wear it...maybe Id let him, I dont know...

He does dress up in girl stuff around the house, but both he and DD take off the dress up clothes when we are going out


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## Kincaid

Mamajama,
This is all real hypothetical, since my son is 10 months old. But we don't plan on doing "action figures" fantasy like power rangers, spiderman, etc because they seem 1) too Disney (which I find stilfling to innate creativity.... Disney boy characters are almost all "heroes" and girls "princesses") 2) too based on conflict and fighting 3) too commericalized and mass marketed (if a child identifies with spiderman, that opens them up to all the licensed crap). For the same reasons we would not get him Belle or Princess whatever costumes, not because he is a "boy" but because we don't like the message it sends.

Dress up stuff I would have in the house would probably include things like hats, capes, pieces of striking fabrics (velvets or silks), boxes that can be made into robot costumes/turtle shells/etc. Things that were not mass produced and licensed that accopanied videos and sugary cereal :LOL I don't think I would be controlling my child's "make believe" in a negative way in this manner. After all, a child's imagination doesn't come up with Power Rangers - that is a licensed product marketed to kids. I would rather foster imaginative play that is truly CREATIVE and comes from my child's mind and dreams. Not from a video, a gameboy game, a pair of logo pajamas, etc. And we feel even more strongly about avoiding the licensed "make believe" that society foists on girls. I would not mind if my son wanted to make believe he was Sacajawea. I would not encourage him to be Cinderella. Make sense?

I don't think the cowboy boot thing was a "freak" accident. I think that playing on asphalt, slides, monkey bars, etc in a pair of heeled shoes (cowboy boots or slingback pumps) is pretty basic safety risk, for the kid wearing them and kids playing around them. If others have found cowboy boots to be safe and comfortable for the playground, then that is cool if it works for them. I just want to nurture my child's comfort, play safely, and with dress up encourage their true inner creativity and not just dress up and re-enact stuff that Disney sells to us. Make sense?


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## mamajama

Yes, Kincaid it does make sense







I totally agree with your opinions on these issues. So imagine my surprise/shock/dismay when my 1.5 yr old firstborn baby pretended his piece of PITA BREAD was a gun for the first time.








It was then that I began to learn to refine my opinions to make them *fit* into our household. While I do not allow toy guns in our house, for example, I do allow found sticks. Yes, they are used as guns sometimes, but also as many other things (crutches, wands, swords, tools to help save the other sibling from a pit of "hot lava" etc.). It's a balance. We have many conversations about why I don't allow toy guns. Trust me....MANY :LOL So I have plenty of opportunities to explain my stance. My hope is that my kids will be conscious about violence and stereotypes so they can grow to make informed choices. I feel it is essential for them to Play-It-Out in order to process all these concepts.
Same with dress-up clothes. My older son reeeeaallly wanted to wear a dress for a while there. For him it was a private thing and he was very nervous to ask me about it. He was only about 4 at the time. It was sad for me to see how, so early in life, he felt ashamed or shy about it. I made him a makeshift dress out of one of my undershirts. Now, to this day, I do not know what it is, exactly, that he plays, but I am so happy and relieved that he felt comfortable enough with me to reveal a little part of this secret.
And when he got into Spiderman? (I hate to say this but, it's almost inevitable that your son will too) I saw it as a good opportunity to introduce him to the world of Comic Book shops. Now, he understands a little about what I do. I draw comics...a lot of them are not really appropriate for kids, though, but I hope this may inspire creative drawing for him as well.
My point, is that while it is important, no, vital to teach your values to your kids. It is vital, as well, to respect, appreciate, and foster theirs as well. Even if they're different.


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## jennifera

in Girls clothes, including dresses.

I have 6 year old boy/girl twins and I also have a 3 year old son.

In others posts that i have written, I said that my boy/girl twins changed clothes one day in the winter, We had gone to a Birthday Party for my Nieces son at a local duckpin (small balls) bowling alley and my son wore his sisters clothes and made beleive that he was his sister, And my Daughter wore her Brothers clothes and made beleive she was her brother, We were there for about 2 hours and not one person knew that my son and daughter had switched places.

Here are links to my original posts

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...75#post2675975

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...3&page=2&pp=20

I had to do alot of errands this weekend and due to the hot weather the boys were wearing shorts and my daughter was wearing a dress, Both boys have long hair, Both boys are almost always being mistaken for girls, So everyone assumes that i have 3 daughters, For some reason or another my 3 year old son wanted to wear one of his sisters old dresses when we want out, since he is almost always being mistaken for a girl, I let him, Then my 6 year old son asked his sister if he would switch places with her, He would wear her clothes and she would wear his and assume each others identy, She thought about it for about 2 minutes and while she was thinking about it, He reminded her about the time they switched places in the winter time to go to my Neices sons birthday party at a local Duckpin (small balls) bowling alley, And nobody knew that they had been wearing each others clothes, After that my daughter said yes, She would switch places with him, They both asked me if it was ok and I said yes.

My 6 year old son then put the dress on that his sister was wearing along with her shoes and socks, and my daughter put her brothers clothes on including his shoes and socks, My daughter then fixed her brothers hair just like hers was, in pigtails and she put the barrettes that she had in her hair in his.

My Daughter spent all of Saturday in public (while shopping) dressed as a boy, And Both of my sons spent all of Saturday in public (while shopping) dressed as girls, My 6 six year old son even slept in one of his sisters nightgowns in her bed Saturday Night, My 3 year old son slept in one of his sisters old nightgowns in his own bed and my daughter slept in her brothers pajamas in his bed Saturday Night, And both of my sons spent all of Sunday in public (while shopping and visiting friends including relatives) dressed as girls, And my Daughter spent all of Sunday in public (while shopping and visiting friends including relatives) dressed as a boy and nobody suspected that my 2 sons were anything but 3 and 6 year old girls and my daughter was a boy,







Both boys have unisex names, So when i call them no one even blinks an eye.


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## jennifera

in Girls clothes, including dresses.

I have 6 year old boy/girl twins and I also have a 3 year old son.

In others posts that i have written, I said that my boy/girl twins changed clothes one day in the winter, We had gone to a Birthday Party for my Nieces son at a local duckpin (small balls) bowling alley and my son wore his sisters clothes and made beleive that he was his sister, And my Daughter wore her Brothers clothes and made beleive she was her brother, We were there for about 2 hours and not one person knew that my son and daughter had switched places.

Here are links to my original posts

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...75#post2675975

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...3&page=2&pp=20

I had to do alot of errands this weekend and due to the hot weather the boys were wearing shorts and my daughter was wearing a dress, Both boys have long hair, Both boys are almost always being mistaken for girls, So everyone assumes that i have 3 daughters, For some reason or another my 3 year old son wanted to wear one of his sisters old dresses when we want out, since he is almost always being mistaken for a girl, I let him, Then my 6 year old son asked his sister if he would switch places with her, He would wear her clothes and she would wear his and assume each others identy, She thought about it for about 2 minutes and while she was thinking about it, He reminded her about the time they switched places in the winter time to go to my Neices sons birthday party at a local Duckpin (small balls) bowling alley, And nobody knew that they had been wearing each others clothes, After that my daughter said yes, She would switch places with him, They both asked me if it was ok and I said yes.

My 6 year old son then put the dress on that his sister was wearing along with her shoes and socks, and my daughter put her brothes clothes on including his shoes and socks, My daughter then fixed her brothers hair just like hers was, in pigtails and she put the barrettes that she had in her hair in his.

Both of my sons spent all of Saturday and all of Sunday dressed as girls and my daughter spent all of Saturday and all of Sunday dressed as a boy, and nobody suspected that my 2 sons were anything but 3 and 6 year old girls and my daughter was a boy,







Both boys have unisex names, So when i call them, No one even blinks an eye.


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## Kincaid

Mamajama,
I totally get that you think that I can say this stuff now, and then I will see that "reality" is different. I am sure there is plenty with being a mom I will find out is easier said than done.
But I do think it is totally do-able that our house does not end up with spiderman stuff, etc. I was raised in a Barbie-free, gun toy free house (I am 33 and in the South, so my parents were abberations at that place and time). Yes, I wanted a super-soaker gun and a barbie doll when I was a kid. I also wanted to eat Super Sugar Smacks (remember those?!) and drink Tang for every meal. I wanted a Members Only jacket and parachute pants. My parents told me no on all of it :LOL They were just a little crunchy. We had a make-believe toy chest. We had a Barbie nemesis that was called "The Happy to be Me Doll" (flat chest, flat feet, boring hair). No guns and no Disney. My parents were mad at Disney back in the day because Disney World theme park had a time when men with long hair and facial hair were denied admission. As a lesbian, I really appreciate Disney and all they have done as a company. On the other hand, as a feminist, I don't like the message they seem to keep re-packaging about what it means to be female/male. Either way, I don't want to invest in the mass marketed stuff. We do have a "Little Bill" doll for our son, because we were happy to find an African American boy doll. But I think we will steer away from any action figures, it worked for us growing up and wasn't too "hard."
I totally agree kids will play guns without guns, especially if they are around other kids doing so. I will consistently redirect that kind of play, i.e. suggest pretending walking on a path over hot lava (that was one of our favorite games as a kid).
Now I have totally gone way OT on this thread, sorry. Mamajama, I am going to start another thread with a question about coloring books. Please come tell me what you think. As an artist, I really want your persective!


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## root*children

No. My boys are allowed dresses in the house (I sew them for lil' girls, and sell them on ebay, so we do have them around the house). But not in public.

I have only known (IRL) one mama who let her lil' guy out on the town in a dress. He was 3 at the time. People tried to be nice, and say "oh, what a cute dress". But the moment the mama turned her back ... oh my! the looks that people gave! I have questioned it, as have many others to this mama. Her response is that she doesn't think society should force trucks and action figures and blue and gray down boy's throats. I agree. But that doesn't mean you have to put a boy in a dress just to prove any point. That seems to be going to the extreme opposite. Now instead of promoting overly-boy things, you are promoting overly-girly things! There are plenty of gender neutral clothes out there! I despise any clothing for my boys that is gray, or adorned with trucks, sports equiptment, etc. Doesn't mean I should put them in a dress to prove any point.

Of course, it seems that many of you have different reasons than this for putting your boys in dresses... so that situation may not apply (sorry, I didn't read all the gazillion responses







). But I want my boy to be comfortable in just being a boy and not feeling like he has to fit into a stereo-type or be a rebel against that same stereo-type, ya know?

Kincaid - keep fightin the good fight, sistah! You surely will find that things change from your ideals, but stick to your instincts, and it'll all turn out okay







At 4-1/2 my DS got sick with the spiderman bug. He just saw it everywhere. He's fully aware we don't do crappy plastic toys or character toys in our house, but was enthrolled by the story of how the guy *became* spiderman, and it was a much requested story-telling! :LOL


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## vegetalien

i have a two and a half year old who specifically asked me for a skirt while we were shopping a while ago. i didnt' get him one, simply because they were so expensive, but i did find an old sarong that i'd attempted to cut a few years back and it's way too short for me to wear....so i put it on him and he loves it. he's only worn it once so far, and he looks so adorable in it, and surprisingly nobody commented.

he also has a pink stroller for his doll, and sometimes wears his "baby" in a wrap that i made for him. most of his clothes are hand-me-downs and VERY boy-ish but if ever we need to shop for something he practically always choses pink. i think pink is just a very child-friendly colour.

anyway, i'm really dreading the day when someone will make a comment to him and he realises it's not "normal". it would be so nice if he could just develop and define his own gender, without being pushed into one of two polar opposites.

rowan


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## Book Addict Jen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2much2luv*
Would you let your 3 year old ds wear a dress out of the house?







:


I just ordered a utilikilt for DH & 8 yo DS. HE was a little ticked when I told him I doubt they would allow it at school. He ran to get the rules & there was nothing there about it. I am sure there would be after, lol.


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## stirringleaf

i went to an hippy school as a kid ( actually Herb Kohl ( who is an expert on this site now, was an influential founder of it i think, and i took a class from him on deomocracy in education when i was in like 11th grade







) and there was a little boy there that always wore girls clothes to school and carried a purse. not usually dresses, but girls shoes and maybe some pink pants or something. the school was very accepting, and the kids knew they should be too, but that kid still had a hard time fitting in with anyone. little things would still be said about him. even though kids would still play with him and everything he was always condiered "different". and thats where we were all pretty darn "different" by most peoples standards! i dont know why i am telling you this exceot that i just remembered him. i think its great he was able to do that at our school, but at the same time he still had it hard.


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## peaceful_mama

No, I wouldn't. Then again, some of the men's clothes from Sudan look like 'dresses' to an American, so yeah, of course if he had a tiny version of that, I'd let him wear it. (that's where Daddy's from--Daddy doesn't wear 'traditional' clothes, but we might have some occasion where it might come up...)

I just wonder if ppl would then think he's a girl cause he's got adorable curls and long eyelashes...and I get people doing that to the poor little guy already! I think that would bug a 3 yo.

I'm pretty liberal on everything else--heck yeah he can push around a baby doll in a bright pink stroller if he wants to, anywhere he wants. I told my friend the other day maybe I should've picked up this kitchen set we saw on a rummage and saved it for him (he's only 8 mos). Never know, he might grow up to be the next Emeril or something, LOL.
In fact, I SHOULD buy him a little baby doll at the store...I'm sure he'll start getting trucks and junk now that he's getting closer to a year. (that's my family for ya, nothing wrong with it but nothing says he HAS to play that either.) His toys at the moment are pretty neutral--rattles, music-makers, a noisy ball, stuffed animals.

A little OT. but you know what I got my friend's DD for her 5th b-day? A big truck that hauls Hot Wheels. Why? Cause that's her 'thing' right now, the only time she wants to play dolls or anything is when her cousin comes over.


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## Mamid

He's up, he's dressed, he picked it himself... what more do they want from us? Gez!

And it's not simply a dress. Its a t-tunic/toga/kilt/kaftan/ect














:

Honestly, does it really matter what kids wear? Or are little girls only supposed to wear skirts? It used to be that boys wore skirts until they were toilet trained (between3-5) and were then "breeched" and put into pants. DS loves his tunics and I don't know how many people keep on commenting about his lovely dress.


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## MaWhit

Quote:

But that doesn't mean you have to put a boy in a dress just to prove any point. ...Doesn't mean I should put them in a dress to prove any point.

Of course, it seems that many of you have different reasons than this for putting your boys in dresses...
I've never put my boy in a dress. He puts _himself_ into them.


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## mountain

Well, good for him. They're comfortable.


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## jennifera

turned 6, I had gone to buy them some clothes to wear for their birthday, My Daughter was sick the day that we were suppose to go, So I just took my Son (I figured I would take my daughter to get a dress when she was better) shopping. I had not had time to do laundery before we went shopping, So my son wore a pair of his sisters panties since all his underpants were dirty, (As I stated in some of my earlier posts, My son who looks exactly like his sister, They both have long hair and it is the same color, they are about the same height and weight, Even their voices sound alike, My Son actually switched places with his sister, She wore everything of his including underpants and he wore everything of hers including her panties.) I got a pair of pants, A shirt and a new pair of shoes for my son, I told that we were going to pay for the clothes and go home, And he asked me why we were not his sister a dress at the same time that I was buying his clothes, I told him that I wanted his sister to try on the dresses to make sure that they fit her.

I was looking through the rack of dresses and my son was helping me, He picked out 3 dresses that he said would look good on his sister And he asked me since he looked like his sister and everyone thought he was a girl even when he was wearing all boys clothes, If he could try the dresses to see if they fit his sister, I told him no, Because people might make fun of him if they found out that he was a boy, But he did not care so after about 5 minutes of saying no, I finally relented and said yes, I took him into over to the ladies fitting room and he was carrying one of the dresses, And the woman employee at the fitting room said to my son that he would look like a very pretty young lady in the dress that he was holding which was pink and the length came to between his ankles and his knees, He said that he would look like a pretty young lady wearing the dress, So I took him in to the fitting room and I had him try the other 2 dresses on first, One was a red dress and the other one was a white one, As he tried on the dresses he wanted to show the the woman employee at the entrance to the fitting room, I let him do that, I had him put the white one on first, Then the red one, And the pink one last. He said he liked the pink dress the best and his sister would also love the dress, I put the other 2 dresses back and kept the pink dress, I also picked out a slip for the dress and then we went over to the shoe dept. and i had him try on some shoes and i picked out a pair of pink Mary Jane shoes to match the dress, I also picked out tights and some barrettes and I paid for everything and went home.


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## pinklucy

Finally read the whole thread!

My DS is only 4 months old but I do dress him in pink. I've never put him in a dress because I already deal with negative reactions just when he wears a plain pink babygro! I honestly worry that I might experience problems from a health professional if I put him in a dress.

If he would like to wear dresses when he is older I would be happy for him to do so. In fact I have often felt like it would be good if I had a child who was into non-traditional gender choices because I would support him better than a lot of other parents. I often joke that I'll probably have the most masculine boy of all though!

My only concern would be that I live in a fairly rough area. I'm already concerned that the people across the road have Nazi politics. They have a huge England flag hung outside their house and let's just say that people here don't tend to be pleasantly patriotic - that flag nearly always spells trouble. So I worry about people like that seeing my son step outside in a dress and the trouble that could bring for us. I absolutley hate it that I even have to consider that. The thought of my child's freedom of expression being hampered by bigots is awful - but I would have to consider it.


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## Past_VNE

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*







:







:







:

I am so boggled and sad about people who fight hard to secure rights like breastfeeding and intact penises for their sons but give no thought to the RIGHT of their sons to be who they are, who they want to be, without being forced into gender stereotypes.

You can force a square peg into a round hole -- but only by knocking its corners off. I do not have the right to deny my son his preferences in color and dress. He is a beautiful free spirit. He is himself.

I've managed to make it through this very interesting thread.

I totally agree with what I've quoted. I can't imagine doing it any other way. My son has worn pink or girl stuff on many occasions. I liked it, so I bought it. One of my favorites is this very nice thick playsuit from Gap (bought at consignment) in a light pink ground with huge, darker pink cherries and green stems.

I do agree with discussing how other people may treat him. I don't know if it's better to talk about it upfront, and risk scaring him or wait until something happens, and risk it surprising him in a bad way.

I don't intend to cut Jett's hair unless it stringy and ugly when it's long. Both DH and I have thick hair, so I doubt that is an issue. When he's old enough to ask, he can have it shaved, long, mohawked, whatever he wants.

As for DH, well he was worn make-up and nail polish to a New Year's Eve party and got tons of compliments...from the mainstreamers. He consistently wears my microfiber underwear, we jokingly call them man panties. They're thinner than heavy cotton men's underwear, cooler and all around nicer he says. He would definitely consider wearing a skirt. He does not like pink, but that's fine, it goes terribly with his skin tone.

I have more to say, but Jett's trying to abscond the keyboard and I don't want to lose what I've already typed.


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## lisalou

I would let my son, if I had one, wear his sister's clothes in public. That said, the dresses I do buy for dd tend to be play dresses, bright colors and not frilly. I love skirts and dresses b/c I feel less encumbered by them. I have a very hard time finding pants that make me feel relaxed. I've dressed dd in boys clothes, mainly b/c I've found them a little sturdier for Vermont winters. Apparently girls don't need thick courdory overalls and flannel shirts but boys do.









We also encourage dd to pick her own clothes so if we had a ds that was wearing a dress it would be b/c he picked it out and insisted on it.

I do wince a little at parents claiming to want to raise "genderless" children and thus pick a girl's name for their boy and dress them in girl's clothes, paint their nails, etc. I don't think that's genderless, I think that's genderful. I think a boy or girl should be treated in such a way that makes them happy with their gender and taught that they are not limited by their gender's stereotypes. I don't think trying to make them into the other gender achieves that. And I'm not saying anyone here does this, I just know someone irl that does.


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## Book Addict Jen

My son has been loving his utilikilt! I think I will order him another. He has been wearing it everyday!


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## MamaFern

we just went to the folkfest and my little guy wore a sundress all weekend..









he loves the feeling of wearing them and the freedom..


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## JamieK




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## NYCVeg

I wonder how much rigidly gendered children's clothing has to do with the rise of consumer culture in this country (and children's consumer culture in particular). 100 years ago (less, actually), the same, simple white "dress" would have sufficed for boy and girl children--now a mom is expected to buy pink, flowered clothing for girls and blue and red clothing for boys. It reminds me of how toys are so often divided by gender: friends of mine went to buy blocks for their 1 y/o dd and were consistently pointed to the lavendar and pink blocks in the "girls'" section of the toy store. Have we become so rigid in our notions of gender that girls can't play with primary-colored blocks?









I've also been thinking about this thread from the perspective of gender studies. It's interesting to me that it's so much more socially acceptable for a girl to dress in "boys'" clothes or to be a "tom boy". Yet it's not okay for a boy to be "girly". If we believe that we live in a patriarchal culture (which I do), then the culturally "preferred" gender is male. So, the implication is that it's okay for someone of the "inferior" gender to "aspire" to be like the superior one, but demeaning for a boy to do things that are "girly". So, if we "allow" our girls to be tomboys but discourage our boys from being "girly", then what lesson are we teaching them about the worth and status of girls compared to boys?

Just thinking out loud...apologies for all the quotation marks!


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## octobermom

Okay I haven't read the ten pages of response so not sure whats turn this thread if any has taken but I'll answer the OP.
Personally no and other than dressup clothes I wouldn't at home eaither.
Okay going to go read now :LOL

Deanna


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## *Devon*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg*
I've also been thinking about this thread from the perspective of gender studies. It's interesting to me that it's so much more socially acceptable for a girl to dress in "boys'" clothes or to be a "tom boy". Yet it's not okay for a boy to be "girly". If we believe that we live in a patriarchal culture (which I do), then the culturally "preferred" gender is male. So, the implication is that it's okay for someone of the "inferior" gender to "aspire" to be like the superior one, but demeaning for a boy to do things that are "girly". So, if we "allow" our girls to be tomboys but discourage our boys from being "girly", then what lesson are we teaching them about the worth and status of girls compared to boys?

Just thinking out loud...apologies for all the quotation marks!

This makes a lot of sense, but I think part of the reason it's ok for women/girls to wear "men's clothes" is because they are just darn more comfortable! Women had to fight in the 50's and 60's to wear pants, jeans, flat shoes, etc, and there was really no reason for men to fight to wear dresses, stockings, and heels!!!


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## boston

I don't know, I find some dresses quite comfortable.


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## lisalou

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boston*
I don't know, I find some dresses quite comfortable.

Same with skirts. But I don't wear hose anymore except tights during colder weather. I just find I have more freedom of movement and get better fits with skirts. My hips are wide for my frame and finding pants is always a nightmare.


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## NYCVeg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *devonc*
This makes a lot of sense, but I think part of the reason it's ok for women/girls to wear "men's clothes" is because they are just darn more comfortable! Women had to fight in the 50's and 60's to wear pants, jeans, flat shoes, etc, and there was really no reason for men to fight to wear dresses, stockings, and heels!!!

Well, I think it depends on the piece of clothing. I personally find cotton skirts and dresses far more comfortable than pants, and you couldn't pay me to put on a button-down, collared shirt (I think they're dreadfully uncomfortable). And suits and ties...ugh. I definitely agree with you on stockings and heels--but a business woman will wear a suit (even with a tie, sometimes), but you rarely see a guy at the beach in a comfortable, breezy sundress!


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## ZachsMommy

Ok, so I've read about 1/2 of this looooong thread







and I'd have to say that I don't mind so much if my DS dressed up in dresses at home, he can wear makeup and home and _play_ dress up to his heart's content. BUT I would not let him go out in public in a dress. I don't dress him in pinks or light purples either.

I also don't think that little girls should have short boys hair and little boys should not have long girlie hair. I always felt sooo terrible when we were kids and my friends/relatives who were girls that got constantly called boys - they used to get SO disappointed and upset!! I don't want that for my children







I remember that some of them would complain that their parents keep cutting off their hair cause it was to 'hard' to handle so it was easier but all my girl friends WANTED to look like girls.

And as much as I love my DH







if he came home and wanted to start dress in my dresses and wanted to wear my makeup or my perfume we would have some SERIOUS counselling sessions coming up and I'm afraid it would lead to our eventual split.


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## CookieMonsterMommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZachsMommy*
I don't want that for my children I remember that some of them would complain that their parents keep cutting off their hair cause it was to 'hard' to handle so it was easier but all my girl friends WANTED to look like girls.

What if your daughter WANTED short hair? No one here is talking about forcing their sons to wear dresses (as your friends were forced to have short hair) so let's keep the field as even as possible. Would you "allow" them to wear their hair short if they wanted it? At what age would you let them make their own decisions regarding their body?

Kelly


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## TiredX2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZachsMommy*
I also don't think that little girls should have short boys hair and little boys should not have long girlie hair.











How would a girl get boys hair or a boy get "girlie" hair?

DD has short hair, but is definately a girl.
DS has had long hair and will again, but is definately a boy.


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## Rivka5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JamieK*
I dressed my son in whatever clothes were cutest since birth







, which most Mothers will admit are usually found in the girl's section







. He has worn dresses, in public and in private, all of his life as well as other clothes and, because of his beautiful long hair which I have always kept well groomed, has been perceived by others as a girl.

I have allowed him to be whomever he is







, and she is now comfortable acting, looking, and thinking of herself as a girl







: .

Is it really allowing your child to be "whomever he is" to persistently dress him in girls' clothes and promote a feminine appearance since birth? If that's always been your preference, I wonder whether your child (who, according to your profile is only 6) is making an independent choice at all, or whether, instead, they're responding to strong cues from you about what gender you'd prefer.


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## MamaFern

i dont think the idea of this thread was to bash eachother for choice we or our children make... and i really dont think its going to harm or scar your child to dress them in whatever you like.. i know my that son, now that he is almost 3 likes to make choices about what he wears but as a younger child, he really didnt care at all.. so i dressed him how i liked.


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## ZachsMommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CookieMonsterMommy*
What if your daughter WANTED short hair? No one here is talking about forcing their sons to wear dresses (as your friends were forced to have short hair) so let's keep the field as even as possible. Would you "allow" them to wear their hair short if they wanted it? At what age would you let them make their own decisions regarding their body?

Kelly

I don't have a daughter but if I am ever so-blessed and if she wanted to have short hair and asked for it after age 5 or 6(school - aged) I would probably consent BUT I would encourage her to get a more feminine cut rather than a more masculine look.



TiredX2
How would a girl get boys hair or a boy get "girlie" hair?
[/QUOTE said:


> To _me_ short hair is boys hair and long hair is 'girlie' hair. I just feel that there are masculine and feminine things out there that are supposed to be gender-specific and that boys should be boys and girls should be girls.
> 
> And while they are allowed to express themselves however they want I do feel that there are gender-specific ways to do so.(Do I make sense?)
> 
> PS - While we're on the topic of hair - if either child asked for a mullet I would NEVER EVER allow that!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :LOL No gender question there!! LOL!!!!


----------



## CookieMonsterMommy

wow....someone here really questions if a 6 year old is capable of making independant decisions!??

That's sad...

zach, I whole heartedly disagree and think that that attitude can be damaging, BUT I respect your decision to hold those beliefs and will not waste anyones time trying to convince you otherwise.

Kelly


----------



## Rivka5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CookieMonsterMommy*
wow....someone here really questions if a 6 year old is capable of making independant decisions!??

That's sad...

No, I don't "question if a 6 year old is capable of making independent decisions." I question whether a 6 year old who's been dressed as a girl since birth is really acting independently if he begins to identify as a girl. Children do certainly have their own opinions and preferences, but they also pick up and act upon their parents' preferences.

Edited to add: Um... okay, maybe you weren't talking to me. Sorry.







:


----------



## Crunchier

I'm ok with it, but all of ben's dresses are pretty run down looking--they are made from our worn or ill fitting t shirts. Derek will change him out of a nighty though if we are going to be seen in public. His biggest concern with dresses was that ben not be nakey underneath.

Now Ben is almost 3, and is getting a little old for dresses. We are in the deep south, and it is sorely frowned upon here. But our babies will all wear the same, gender-inspecific clothing, including pink onesies and gowns.


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## Sharlla

I don't happen to have any dresses laying around that would fit my son, so no, he's never worn a dress.


----------



## Attila the Honey

Yes, absolutely. I don't have a son, but if I did he'd be free to wear what he wants to wear. That's not a battle I really want to fight, for starters, but also I am not planning to raise my children to learn that they can't be themselves for fear of what people might think.

On a somewhat related note, has anyone seen this coloring book?

Girls Will Be Boys Will Be Girls Coloring Book I have it for dd when she gets older.


----------



## primjillie

I think I am confused. Do you have a son or a daughter? I can't really tell from the post. Maybe because I am an older mom, but is there something wrong with dressing your boys like boys and girls like girls? I was glad to have at least one of each sex and part of that was the gender difference. I dressed my boys (like boys) and my daughter like a girl. My daughter wore the boys' handmedown overalls and a few neutral outfits, but it never occured to me to dress her in their truck or sports themed outfits. I enjoyed buying and dressing them in gender specific clothes. Am I missing something? Maybe they are easy going kids and never asked to wear anything different. I can honestly say that my sons never asked to wear a dress and my daughter never asked for "boy" related clothing. Is that unusual?


----------



## sweetest

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZachsMommy*

And as much as I love my DH







if he came home and wanted to start dress in my dresses and wanted to wear my makeup or my perfume we would have some SERIOUS counselling sessions coming up and I'm afraid it would lead to our eventual split.


How sad


----------



## ZachsMommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetest*
How sad









I KNOW! How terrible would that be! For my DH to just UP and waltz in an decide he looks better in a dress than me!







:LOL I should think NOT! I am with my MAN because I like MEN - If I liked WOMEN I would be with a WOMAN! YKWIM?







and I don't want my man dressing like a woman that's for sure!


----------



## Sharlla

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie*
I think I am confused. Do you have a son or a daughter? I can't really tell from the post. Maybe because I am an older mom, but is there something wrong with dressing your boys like boys and girls like girls? I was glad to have at least one of each sex and part of that was the gender difference. I dressed my boys (like boys) and my daughter like a girl. My daughter wore the boys' handmedown overalls and a few neutral outfits, but it never occured to me to dress her in their truck or sports themed outfits. I enjoyed buying and dressing them in gender specific clothes. Am I missing something? Maybe they are easy going kids and never asked to wear anything different. I can honestly say that my sons never asked to wear a dress and my daughter never asked for "boy" related clothing. Is that unusual?

The only think that I can think is maybe they think their children are trans gendered and don't want to stifle their individuality? I don't know, I hear a lot from adult trannies who say that from a young age their felt like they were the other sex.


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## candiland

I couldn't read through all 12 pages, but yes, my 3 yo. boy wears dress-up dresses. He was out riding his bike in our neighborhood a few days ago with a pink one on. And over the weekend, at a music campout/festival, we forgot his sandals, so he wore his sister's strappy pink and silver flower sandals. We went in public a lot on the way home for food, rest stops, etc.

I have a 5 yo. daughter. They dress up in each other's stuff... they own a policeman outfit, clown outfit, cat costumes, princess dresses, etc. I would never tell my daughter "Yes, you can wear your brother's things but sorry, son, those dresses are off limits."







:

If anything would cause a complex and life issues later on, it would be limiting kids to gender-specific outfits. It's just a blatant, unapologetic bias and a psychological issue that should stay with the grown up and not be pushed off onto the children. That's one reason our society stays so "shut"... generations of parents pushing off their psychological issues onto their kids.


----------



## Attila the Honey

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZachsMommy*
I KNOW! How terrible would that be! For my DH to just UP and waltz in an decide he looks better in a dress than me!







:LOL I should think NOT! I am with my MAN because I like MEN - If I liked WOMEN I would be with a WOMAN! YKWIM?







and I don't want my man dressing like a woman that's for sure!

I think it's sad because my husband masculinity isn't what I love about him. I love his soul, his spirit, the way he treats me and his children, his brain, his heart.. etc. If you put a dress on all that, he'd be the same person. I can't imagine putting a condition like that onto a love that is hopefully supposed to last a lifetime.


----------



## KnitterMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Attila the Honey*
I think it's sad because my husband masculinity isn't what I love about him. I love his soul, his spirit, the way he treats me and his children, his brain, his heart.. etc. If you put a dress on all that, he'd be the same person. I can't imagine putting a condition like that onto a love that is hopefully supposed to last a lifetime.










I'm with you Mama.

Lovin the DH even if he became the DW ... or the DH/DW ...


----------



## charmarty

to answer the OP.

Damn rights! I would!


----------



## sweetest

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swimmin_mama*
I'm with you Mama.

Lovin the DH even if he became the DW ... or the DH/DW ...


Me, too!!!!


----------



## primjillie

"If anything would cause a complex and life issues later on, it would be limiting kids to gender-specific outfits. It's just a blatant, unapologetic bias and a psychological issue that should stay with the grown up and not be pushed off onto the children. That's one reason our society stays so "shut"... generations of parents pushing off their psychological issues onto their kids."

I have to respectfully disagree with this. I don't know anyone who has issues (in adulthood) due to dressing in gender specific clothes - none of my siblings, close friends, my own children......no one I know. I think this would be a very rare issue that someone would have problems due to this in childhood. Do you know people that this has affected? (This has been a very interesting discussion, by the way!)


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## captain crunchy

I would totally allow it if I had a son. We have a daughter and I really don't want to put any hang-ups or roles on her -- I realize this is somewhat inevitable because I can't completely shield her from society... no matter how much we restrict TV, or not buy her disney stuff etc, she is going to "get" that pink is for girls and blue is for boys and all that comes with it (society speaking, not me)...

However, having been a Sociology major, it is a fact that children learn the vast majority of how they view the world based directly on how their parents react to the world around them. I feel that by letting my daughter be who she is, she will eventually fall into who she wants to be -- if that makes any sense.

Of course at 4 months old, we do choose all her clothing...she rarely wears a dress...and truthfully, with her coloring, she looks better (to us) in jeweled tones like purples and deep reds and jades -- so that is what we try to dress her in, though it is hard to find in the baby sections! She does have some pink things because they were gifts...

I wouldn't go mental either if my daughter wanted to be a "girly girl"... just as I would be okay if she wanted to be "boyish"... Our goal as parents, me and DH, is just that we attempt to create as much of an environment at home that her choices will be her own, and not some media idea of beauty or a gender box people want to put her in..know what I mean?

Whenever she is old enough to choose, which really won't be too long now, anything that is safe she can do (in other words, no dying your hair at like, 3 lol)... but short hair, long hair, construction boots, ballet shoes, whatever...as long as she is happy...

...and I really would like to believe that I would be completely the same with a boy as well...


----------



## the_lissa

I agree captian optimism.


----------



## wende

My dh has said over and over again that if it were socially acceptable he'd be all over wearing my hippie skirts in public because they are much more comfortable than pants.

As for the hair being "girly or boyish" Here is my daughter and here I am . I think that we are both pretty feminine and our hair hasn't changed that. My "tomboy" of a dd had hair like this until a few months ago.

I hate gender stereotypes. If I lived by them my ds wouldn't have found his newest passion ballet . My other ds couldn't walk around like this when he asked and my baby girl would never be caught wearing anything like this because Heaven forbid anyone think her a boy!

Of course, every one of my girls has been called a boy at one time or another and both of my boys have been called a girl at one time or another. My kids are free to be, think, and dress however they want and I must say, I have some pretty well adjusted happy children.


----------



## candiland

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie*
I have to respectfully disagree with this. I don't know anyone who has issues (in adulthood) due to dressing in gender specific clothes - none of my siblings, close friends, my own children......no one I know. I think this would be a very rare issue that someone would have problems due to this in childhood. Do you know people that this has affected?

I'm not saying that dressing in gender specific clothes due to one's own choice and freewill affects a person negatively. I'm saying, it's a total bias and a psychological issue on the part of the parents to assume that because a boy dresses up in something pink, frilly, flowery, whatever, he's going to "turn gay" or "be a wimp" and push those totally irrational psychological issues onto their kids.

I would never hesitate to let my dd play in her brother's "boy" dress up clothes/outfits... just because the gender is reversed doesn't change that message. It would be my own psychological issues being pushed onto my ds if I was gender biased in that manner.

If people would confront those irrational fears and NOT push them off onto their kids, it would show a tremendous amount of maturity on the part of the parents and our society as a whole.


----------



## CookieMonsterMommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sharlla*
The only think that I can think is maybe they think their children are trans gendered.....?

With all due respect, please don't answer for us (the mamas who have no problem w/their sons wearing dresses in public, or private for that matter).

I do _not_ think my son is transgendered in any way. (not that I'd have a big problem with that, I just do not think it is so).

If I remember correctly, there was only ONE mama on our boat who said that her son now considers herself a girl.

My son is 6, knows he is a boy, likes being a boy and likes all his boy parts. He talks of one day marrying (a woman) and having children. He also paints his nails, wore dresses when he was a little younger, and up until 3 months ago, had beautiful, long, wavy, and for a short time-- *pink* hair. When he was 18mos-3 years, he carried around a naked water baby doll named Serabi, who he would cuddle, feed, and sing to. The only reason he doesn't care for her still is she got lost. He likes to sew. He also loves tackle football, baseball, wrestling with his dad, lifting his little 1 pund dumbell, and other "manly" things.

He'll be the 1st to object when his peers say something like "eww, I'm not playing with that, it's girlie!" Or if they say to a girl "Why are you wearing that--green is a boys color!?!"

I'm proud of who he is, and who he will become, no matter who that is.

Kelly


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## jkpmomtoboys

I haven't read all 12 pgs., but just wanted to say that I have 2 boys and my older one (5yo) has "painted" his nails, put on my makeup, tried on my nylons AND heels at the same time (that one was a few weeks ago) and if he wanted to wear a dress that would be fine too.

He also likes to play and put on his little brother's diaper.

Neither make him anything but who he is.


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## trinity6232000

I have been lurking this thread since it started. To those who won't
allow your boys to dress as girls, good for you. That is what you are
comfortable with and that is your right as a parent to have rules for
your home.








I am confused though at how many who won't allow their sons to wear
dresses take such an issue with other Mama's who would allow their
sons to wear dresses.
It's about choices. It's not forcing a Son to wear dresses, it's allowing
him to express himself if he chooses to. It just seems like some people
are thinking that these Mama's are living out some fantasy of changing
their boys into girls. They aren't trying to change them, they are
allowing their Sons to be who they are.
Doesn't mean they are transgendered, or that they will grow up to be
gay or feminine. It's a dress, it's not a magic gender changer.
What could be wrong with that? Isn't that the whole purpose of AP?
Listening to our children's cues and needs? I don't see the harm in
allowing boys to wear dresses.
But like I stated at the beginning of my post. I am not faulting those
who wouldn't allow it. Just wondering why there is this "ooh yucky"
vibe for those who do.


----------



## jkpmomtoboys

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trinity6232000*
It's a dress, it's not a magic gender changer.

:LOL


----------



## jkpmomtoboys

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rivka5*
Is it really allowing your child to be "whomever he is" to persistently dress him in girls' clothes and promote a feminine appearance since birth? If that's always been your preference, I wonder whether your child (who, according to your profile is only 6) is making an independent choice at all, or whether, instead, they're responding to strong cues from you about what gender you'd prefer.

I have to say that I agree with this and I guess I'm surprised (even on mdc) to find more moms who choose to be hostile to the "traditional" parent-driven gender stereotyping but don't see this as exactly the same thing but in a potentially more harmful way.


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## eilonwy

My little boy found some purple nail polish a few weeks ago and painted his nails beautifully. He also insisted one morning on wearing a bright pink hair barrette for several hours, and one night last week pulled out a dress that his sister will wear next year and pulled it over his head. He loved it, he had fun, and that was that.







Aside from the nail polish, he's never asked to wear "girlie" clothing out of the house. I don't really have a problem with it either way, it's just not a big deal to me. So what if my three year old son has purple fingernails? He's not gonna eat the polish off, it's not gonna kill him and it's not a permanent change, so what's the big deal?









Interestingly, though, my daughter (15 months) is fascinated by and attracted to anything pink. She doesn't really have that much in the way of pink clothing (her skin color is more of a golden-peach and most pinks look funny on her) but she adores what she has. She pulls dresses out of her drawer and flings them at me when she wants to get dressed, and she flies toward pink things in stores, as well as dressess of every description. If she's offered a pair of overalls and a dress, she'll take the dress every time (though this may change as it gets colder! :LOL).

Once upon a time, I believed that gender was entirely a social construct. Then I watched my 2 week old son stare at a ceiling fan for 45 minutes. When we went for walks, he would look at the flowers that I pointed out, nod and smile politely and then go back to staring at cars. He developed a love of airplanes, which quite frankly freak me out; he learned every car brand name, logo, and many different model names. He'll sit and read books with planes and trains in them for an age. Honestly, I don't think that it had as much to do with my influence as it did with his own inborn tendancies. I have a very masculine little boy who's very comfortable with his feminine side but not overly involved with it. Likewise, I have a very feminine daughter who's perfectly thrilled to climb the highest slide at the playground or dig in the dirt for worms, but prefers dresses nonetheless.


----------



## sweetest

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eilonwy*
My little boy found some purple nail polish a few weeks ago and painted his nails beautifully. He also insisted one morning on wearing a bright pink hair barrette for several hours, and one night last week pulled out a dress that his sister will wear next year and pulled it over his head. He loved it, he had fun, and that was that.







Aside from the nail polish, he's never asked to wear "girlie" clothing out of the house. I don't really have a problem with it either way, it's just not a big deal to me. So what if my three year old son has purple fingernails? He's not gonna eat the polish off, it's not gonna kill him and it's not a permanent change, so what's the big deal?









Interestingly, though, my daughter (15 months) is fascinated by and attracted to anything pink. She doesn't really have that much in the way of pink clothing (her skin color is more of a golden-peach and most pinks look funny on her) but she adores what she has. She pulls dresses out of her drawer and flings them at me when she wants to get dressed, and she flies toward pink things in stores, as well as dressess of every description. If she's offered a pair of overalls and a dress, she'll take the dress every time (though this may change as it gets colder! :LOL).

Once upon a time, I believed that gender was entirely a social construct. Then I watched my 2 week old son stare at a ceiling fan for 45 minutes. When we went for walks, he would look at the flowers that I pointed out, nod and smile politely and then go back to staring at cars. He developed a love of airplanes, which quite frankly freak me out; he learned every car brand name, logo, and many different model names. He'll sit and read books with planes and trains in them for an age. Honestly, I don't think that it had as much to do with my influence as it did with his own inborn tendancies. I have a very masculine little boy who's very comfortable with his feminine side but not overly involved with it. Likewise, I have a very feminine daughter who's perfectly thrilled to climb the highest slide at the playground or dig in the dirt for worms, but prefers dresses nonetheless.

















Are babies born knowing what airplanes and cars are?









Or does our own social conditioning see these things as "masculine" and attribute an affinity for them in a male child as something inborn and look at a love of flowers/dresses in a male child as "feminine" and outside of what he "should" be attracted to.

I just think they like what they like and its when we as a society tell the child that the behavior is not appropropriate for thier gender the internal conflicts start.


----------



## eilonwy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetest*







Are babies born knowing what airplanes and cars are?









Or does our own social conditioning see these things as "masculine" and attribute an affinity for them in a male child as something inborn and look at a love of flowers/dresses in a male child as "feminine" and outside of what he "should" be attracted to.

I just think they like what they like and its when we as a society tell the child that the behavior is not appropropriate for thier gender the internal conflicts start.

That wasn't the point. Of course he wasn't born knowing what airplanes and cars are, the point that I was making was that he was attracted to big machines and things that move around in circles from his first exposure to them. The fact that we see these things as masculine is hardly relevant; I'm saying that yes, I do believe that in my son's particular case the affinity for large, moving machines was inborn. I didn't tell him that it wasn't appropriate for him to like flowers (who would bother sending such a message to a three month old?) but I didn't tell him that it was inappropriate to like airplanes. He likes what he likes-- large, moving machines. And while he does appreciate beautiful things, like flowers and trees, he seems to be drawn more strongly to large, moving machines than anything else.


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## loraxc

You know, I've spent some time thinking about WHY boys would be attracted to machines and large fast vehicles, biologically. All I can come up with is that some of our prehistoric ancestors needed to chase down some big fast mammals, and the ones who did it were male. But I don't know. It's not THAT good an explanation. (What about the tribes who fished? Why aren't little girls obsessed with "gathering" and agriculture?) I can't think of any other even remote possibility that would explain the putatively "biological" male preference for such things.

For what it's worth, my 20mo girl loves all "things that go" as well. I really think it's mostly that big machines that go are cool, and that consciously or not, we reinforce that natural interest more in boys than girls. (Think just even about--well, clothes. Whose clothes are covered in cars and trucks and boats from birth? Kids notice these things.) I don't completely rule out some biological thing, but I think that influence is minor.


----------



## farmer mama

Jumping in a little late here, but just a few days ago ds decided to go out with his big sister's dress on under overalls, (they had been dressing up before we went out and he was insistent that he did not want to change) then the overalls got spilled on so we went to the store with him in a purple dress and his sister's pink and red sweater, and people were asking about my girls (ds's hair is to his middle of his back) and I had to explain that he was in fact a boy in his sister's clothes. Fortunately it was at a co-op where that kind of stuff is a little more accepted, lol.

He plays "princess" with his big sister and loves his baby doll, but he LOVES trucks, chainsaws, tools, etc in a way that we have never encouraged, despite have the same toys his sister has. I have no questions or concerns about how my son gender-identifies. He is the first to tell people that he is a boy. I actually think allowing children or adults to be comfortable about exploring gender-roles helps them be more comfortable and at ease with their own role.

About instinct, I think there is some sort of biological impulse for boys to use tools and technology to manipulate their environment (not implying that girls aren't attracted to technology), and that today this manifests in their love of machines and vehicles. I hadn't thought of the speed connection before.

I also have experienced little girls gathering impulses. My dd and her friends often are seen with pouches, purses and bags loaded full of their stuff, hauling around, and I wonder if it is some throw back to a gathering instinct. I don't think this means that we are limited to our gender roles, or that we should overtly encourage our children to be one way or another, but I have found that being aware of the differences between genders to be helpful in my parenting.


----------



## candiland

We've never pushed our kids toward liking or disliking any particular thing because of gender. That's why my 3 yo. ds likes to play princess and mommy with his 5 yo. sister, for example.

I have noticed a difference in them, though. I used to think that those differences were entirely a social construct until I had one boy and one girl of my own. My boy is pretty emotionally simple, for example. I don't have to guess around at what's bugging him, his moods and what he wants and needs are all pretty right out there. Then he's over it, on to the next thing. He kind of "plods" along, and is very very physical and not too verbal. (Has a TON of energy, tho, I might add







)

My girl was born very emotionally complex and "moody", for lack of a better word. There is always soooo much going on in there that she doesn't express, that I need to guess at and question and analyze and such. She is very verbal and less physical than the boy. They learned how to ride two wheelers at the same time!

The boy is a HUGE risk taker and already shows off his physical prowess in front of other boys, esp. those older than them. Scary, dare-devil type things that make me fear a heart attack one of these days. The girl is more cautious and analytical, taking time to fully think things through and digest the pros and cons of each action.

They were birthed, nursed, and raised pretty much identically. They share a love of dress up - which includes fancy dresses and high heels - but that's where the "gender similarities" end. (I put that in quotes because everyone prefers bright, beautiful colors to drabby ones, whether they are male or female, but this particular "gender difference" is strictly societally and parentally enforced.)


----------



## madtan

I am going to flip the coin and say no. I agree and understand what you are all saying but my son has blond curls and is way too cute to be took out in public in a dress. There are sick people out there who might get their kicks by seeing a little boy in girls clothing. I wouldn't care if he were at home because we are his family. I think for safety sake no.


----------



## wende

Quote:


Originally Posted by *madtan*
I am going to flip the coin and say no. I agree and understand what you are all saying but my son has blond curls and is way too cute to be took out in public in a dress. There are sick people out there who might get their kicks by seeing a little boy in girls clothing. I wouldn't care if he were at home because we are his family. I think for safety sake no.

With all due respect, anyone who would get kicks out of seeing your beautiful little boy in a dress would get the same kicks from seeing him in jeans and a t-shirt.


----------



## jayayenay

.


----------



## bri276

depends on where we were going. but mostly probably not. though I'd certainly never presume to tell anyone else what's ok for their kids to do as long as it's safe.

I guess I'm a little overebearing in the fashion department. I know & understand why others don't care what their kids wear or look like in public but... I do. at home though, whatever.


----------



## sweetangelbrynlie

Sure he can wear a dress if he wants, I don't care. Sometimes that's all I can find clean for him anyways... :LOL People seem to laugh at me and my family all the time, might as well give them something to laugh about!

I don't care though, whatever he likes, I like.


----------



## mike

Why should boys have to become a pope or a judge before they are alowed to wear a dress


----------



## captain crunchy

ha


----------



## bobica

i'm about 1/2 way through with this thread & i've gotten some great insight on both sides of the issue. thanks mamas!

had a thought yesterday- i was looking through a magazine & there was a picture of Jackie Kennedy, John Jr. & his cousin who were about 4 or 5 at the time. they were in shorts, shirts and shoes that were very Mary Jane-ish (i think my mom calls them Buster Browns). I was thinking how you'd never see a boy in those today b/c they'd be considered too girly. How did all of this evolve???

BTW, checked out the utilikilts & boy would dh's legs look great!


----------



## cherylannl

Inside our house? sure.

In our yard? sure.

Outside in public? yes and no, it depends.

I dont think I would let him wear a dress out of the house, in our neighborhood down the street where people or other children might know him and who might later tease him.

If we were going somewhere outside of the neighborhood where only strangers were around, and only strangers would see him, then sure, why not?

However, my 2 sons never wanted to wear dresses, so it never came up.

On the other had, when my daughter wanted to wear pants, I let her wear pants in our neighborhood, down the street, to school, or anywhere.


----------



## green betty

Ha, I was just thinking of this thread today when I saw a nice little skirt at the used clothing store and thought about how well it would work with the baby legs I just ordered for easy diaper changes! Didn't buy it yet, but I think I'll go back...

Hell yes, I would DEFINITELY let ds wear whatever he wants. ITA Mike on the pope! That is some fancy, fancy drag.


----------



## lisalou

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mike*
Why should boys have to become a pope or a judge before they are alowed to wear a dress

What other motivation would you use to get them become pope or a judge? If you start letting them wear dresses whenever before you know it all of the popes and judges will be women.


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## green betty

Sorry to be OT, but did you know that many (including me) believe that a woman did actually make it into the papacy once? Pope Joan, in 855-858. She inspired the "check-n-make-sure" chair in which an incoming pope must sit to get felt up. To the best of my knowledge it is _still in use today_. It was pretty embarrassing for the church when their leader died in childbirth. Not gonna make that mistake again!

Or perhaps this isn't that OT after all...

I cite as my source The Legend of Pope Joan by Peter Stanford. Henry Holt and Company. 1998. The Catholic Church denies the existence of a female pope.


----------



## lisalou

That's funny I was going to say, except for Pope Joan in my post.


----------



## ~member~

Just adding another Yes. My ds has worn his sisters clothes and she has worn his. Dresses, pretty shoes, Princess crowns, flowery shirts, lacy pants, etc.
If ppl called him a girl, he was quick to say he was a boy. Well, more his sister spoke up for him. :LOL
She still does. Sometimes to his detriment, as he needs to learn to speak for himself, especially in the classroom.


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