# Biting Dog



## lactatinggirl (Nov 22, 2009)

I have a 2 year old cocker spaniel and an 8 month old Peanut. My dog is an absolute sweetheart to me and my husband, but doesn't like strangers and doesn't like Peanut. Peanut is crawling really fast now-a-days and it's difficult to keep her away from the dog. Any suggestions or helpful experiences? We really don't want to get rid of our dog and honestly I don't think anyone would take her because of the hating strangers thing. I'm looking into hiring a one-on-one (we've done classes with her to no avail) trainer on Monday.


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## MadiMamacita (Jan 29, 2006)

this is not what you want to hear, but this is a complaint I have heard of Cocker Spaniels before. I love dogs and when I have a pet they are really like members of the family, but I wouldn't have a dog that I would be suspicious of biting my baby.
Otherwise, invest in lots of baby gates and keep dog and baby seperated.


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## babeak (Jan 10, 2008)

Sorry to say this, but you have to get rid of the dog or someone to foster until Peanut is older. Our DD was 13 months old and was bit on the face by our small dog and it happened so fast and out of the blue AND It was not around food!!! It happened right next to me when I turned my head for a split second. I trusted our dog 200% and he LOVES kids and EVERYONE. She loves him still and he loves her, but he is living with some in-laws about 1000 miles away.

DDog was in our family for 6 years and had Canine Good Citizen Cert. I talked to breeders and trainers as this was a full bred dog. They said that the worst time can be when kids are toddlers. They don't act predictably and the dogs don't "recognize" them as human. This can happen with highly trained dogs.

DD had an inhibited bite...they decided to not put stitches in but she is left with 2 scars on her face almost a year later to the date. He almost got her eye. It was one of the most awful days of my life. Sitting in the ER with everyone looking at her face and having to say that it was not some strange viscous dog, but our own beloved family pet.

If your dog is already showing aggressive signs with strangers and her, then it probably is not going to get better. This is maybe my one opportunity to have some good come from our horrible experience and that is to save another family from repeating our experience.

DH was adamant after the bite that DDog was staying and we gave it 2.5 months and it was such a relief the day he left even though I miss him every day and just emailed 2 days ago to see how DDog was doing. Anyway, we had baby gates, to keep them separate but both the dog and child can move quickly. I was so stressed & fearful that it might happen again and I found myself wanting to yell at both the dog and DD. About 2month after the bite DD was toddling and fell close to where DDog was laying by DH and bared his teeth. That was it. He couldn't stay away from her and couldn't be near her during this developmental stage. We may get him back, but if the foster parents insist on keeping him then we will have to accept that.

Finally, I will reiterate. Keeping the dog is NOT worth the agony and guilt and horror of the experience. I feel that we were lucky he did not get her eye. It happened once and that was unfortunate, but I know I could not live with myself if it were to happen again. However, you have a lot signs that this is not a good combo and all the training in the world will not give you the peace of mind that the dog's absence will.

Sorry, that that may not be the answer you were hoping for, but hope that it is helpful nonetheless.

BTDT and have long wished I could rewind the hands of time.


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## Bubblette (Apr 26, 2009)

Is your cocker actually biting? moving away from peanut? growling? You didn't really specify what's going on.

While I agree with the PP that in many situations it is not worth keeping the dog when you're worried about biting, I do think it's only fair to try a GOOD behaviorist before making a decision.

Sometimes things are a lot less dire than they look, and no one on the internet can tell you what is going on. If you really want to keep the dog, if you can, get some good help as quick as you can.


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

If it's any comfort...

My parents had a Scottish Terrier when I was born. Those of you who know dogs know these have major territorial issues and bite.

Everyone said when my mom was pregnant that she'd have to get rid of Heather. When they brought her home, she sort of adopted me. She would sleep under my crib. When I learned to walk, I leaned on her, sometimes pulling her fur. She would whimper but not snap at me. Mother was super-paranoid but she never had any reason to doubt Heather.

The problem is that this is a small dog and people would come up to her. I was constantly pulling her away from them and lecturing children on how they shouldn't approach dogs they don't know. She was also hell in the gas station before the days of self-service. She had quite a reputation.

We also never had food issues but we were taught not to go near her dish. Apparently, that's a real red flag. Toddlers, someone explained to me, are at dog-height and look them in the eye, which dogs misinterpret. That's why they tend to get attacked, even by dogs who were good with them as babies.

Babeck's story scares the crap out of me! What a horrible experience, especially involving two things you love.

I wish there were a way your dog could bond with your baby the way Heather sort of adopted me. Is he jealous? Is this a territorial issue? A trait in this breed? I would not want something that could potentially harm my child around but maybe there's some way to avoid having to get rid of the dog.

Good luck!


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## noobmom (Jan 19, 2008)

I'm sorry.







There was a thread similar to this in the Pets forum not too long ago. You might try looking over there for more information. Personally, I would not keep a dog that showed any aggression towards my child unless I could really keep them separated (like an outside dog).


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

We just went through this in our house as well. What you really need a dog behaviorist, you can call your vet and they should be able to refer you to someone. Our dog has many other problems that made rehoming impossible, or so I thought. He is now in a wonderful home without children and doing well.







Our dog attacked our 3 year, bit her in the face several times, this was after a "warning bite" on her hand a couple months ago. After the first incident I took precautions, never left them alone, etc... this second attack occurred when I was less then 2 feet away, DD2 was just standing there, she had done nothing to the dog.

Children have quick, sudden movements, they can be very unsettling for a dog. Some dogs, especially those that tend to be nippy dogs to begin with, do not tolerate children well. I would urge you to keep the baby away from the dog, while the baby is crawling around, put the dog in another room. If even you are right there, it only takes a second as I found out.


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## WinterPearl (Aug 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babeak* 
Sorry to say this, but you have to get rid of the dog or someone to foster until Peanut is older. Our DD was 13 months old and was bit on the face by our small dog and it happened so fast and out of the blue AND It was not around food!!! It happened right next to me when I turned my head for a split second. I trusted our dog 200% and he LOVES kids and EVERYONE. She loves him still and he loves her, but he is living with some in-laws about 1000 miles away.

DDog was in our family for 6 years and had Canine Good Citizen Cert. I talked to breeders and trainers as this was a full bred dog. They said that the worst time can be when kids are toddlers. They don't act predictably and the dogs don't "recognize" them as human. This can happen with highly trained dogs.

DD had an inhibited bite...they decided to not put stitches in but she is left with 2 scars on her face almost a year later to the date. He almost got her eye. It was one of the most awful days of my life. Sitting in the ER with everyone looking at her face and having to say that it was not some strange viscous dog, but our own beloved family pet.

If your dog is already showing aggressive signs with strangers and her, then it probably is not going to get better. This is maybe my one opportunity to have some good come from our horrible experience and that is to save another family from repeating our experience.

DH was adamant after the bite that DDog was staying and we gave it 2.5 months and it was such a relief the day he left even though I miss him every day and just emailed 2 days ago to see how DDog was doing. Anyway, we had baby gates, to keep them separate but both the dog and child can move quickly. I was so stressed & fearful that it might happen again and I found myself wanting to yell at both the dog and DD. About 2month after the bite DD was toddling and fell close to where DDog was laying by DH and bared his teeth. That was it. He couldn't stay away from her and couldn't be near her during this developmental stage. We may get him back, but if the foster parents insist on keeping him then we will have to accept that.

Finally, I will reiterate. Keeping the dog is NOT worth the agony and guilt and horror of the experience. I feel that we were lucky he did not get her eye. It happened once and that was unfortunate, but I know I could not live with myself if it were to happen again. However, you have a lot signs that this is not a good combo and all the training in the world will not give you the peace of mind that the dog's absence will.

Sorry, that that may not be the answer you were hoping for, but hope that it is helpful nonetheless.

BTDT and have long wished I could rewind the hands of time.


Wow, this is pretty much what happened to my son with my nanns dog while I was staying with her for the holidays last year. I lived with her before I got my own place and I raised a kitten with the dog that bit my son on the face. Me and DP were not even 3 feet away when it happened. I would be very careful and keep them in separate areas at all times, no matter what.


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## WC_hapamama (Sep 19, 2005)

Sounds like what happened with my IL's dog when my DH was learning how to walk. DH got bit in the face on two separate occasions, and after the second time, the pediatrician told FIL that he'd have to call CPS if they kept the dog.

DH still has the scars, one on an eyelid even.


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## Jackies Ladybug (Jun 19, 2008)

this is so sad, i dont have any advice but hope you can find peace in whatever situation will work best for your family. i know first hand how much of a family member pets can become and it can be so heartbreaking to make a decision like this.


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## lonegirl (Oct 31, 2008)

I am sorry to hear. Unfortunately though...in 13y of working as a vet tech....Cockers are one of the only breeds I am likely not to trust at the get go.
Dogs are pack creatures...you and your DH are alpha...and your dog is trying to assert dominance over your little one. This cannot happen. You must keep them separated!
My friend (a vet) had to go through this with her own dog (a duck toller)....unfortunately all the behavioural training (with a specialist) in the world would not work for her. She had no choice but to put her down...she would snap at strangers too


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## babeak (Jan 10, 2008)

I forgot to tell you the other part of the story. The hospital reports this to animal control and they come out and put your dog under quarantine. Then we had to go through a lot of other paperwork to get this lifted by proving he had his vaccinations, etc. otherwise they would then take the dog or something like that...blah, blah, blah. BUT, we ALSO HAD TO POST A NOTICE ON OUR DOOR that we had a quarantined dog. Talk about a Scarlet A!!! It was just a horrible experience all around.

At the hospital, they were convinced it was a large dog, but I had to show them how he essentially dragged his teeth across her face (upper and lower jaws) and pinched her cheek really hard. I can still remember it vividly and probably won't ever forget it.

All of the stories from PP saying that it was in the face is what I was told to and that this is not uncommon, which is very scary. We were told that as awful as this bit was, that it was inhibited and it was a quick bite, not an attack. However, I would have hated to see anything more than that.


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## linchi (Sep 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MadiMamacita* 
this is not what you want to hear, but this is a complaint I have heard of Cocker Spaniels before. I love dogs and when I have a pet they are really like members of the family, but I wouldn't have a dog that I would be suspicious of biting my baby.
*Otherwise, invest in lots of baby gates and keep dog and baby seperated.*










There's also a good book I've heard of, Childproofing Your Dog, that maybe you can look into.
This has got to be a rough situation


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## lactatinggirl (Nov 22, 2009)

Thank you all for your advice. I would really like to avoid getting rid of my dog if at all possible. I'm having a one-on-one trainer come to my house.

I don't think she's jealous, though she might be territorial. She never snaps at people outside of our house. Mostly when Peanut goes near her, she just walks away. Peanut likes to follow her though. Sometimes she growls and we correct her. The times that she has snapped at her have been once when Peanut cornered her, once when they were both on the bed and Peanut got too close to her (she was awake, just for some reason she didn't go away that time), and once when my husband had food he was giving to Peanut and the dog thought she should have it (she didn't actually get her that time). The times that she has bitten her, she hasn't actually broken skin. Though she has recently bitten me and broken my skin (I was trying to take off her sweater).


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## Jackies Ladybug (Jun 19, 2008)

i really hope the trainer can help, sounds like a dominant thing, which as far as i know is correctable and will most likely also be grown out of as baby gets older and isnt on her level anymore.
please update us with how it goes, i really hope you guys can work it out.


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

There is no way I would trust a biting dog around my child even if the dog were to go through training. I just wouldn't be able to trust that the dog, if provoked, wouldn't bite again. If it were me, the dog would have to go.


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## MadiMamacita (Jan 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lactatinggirl* 
The times that she has snapped at her have been once when Peanut cornered her, once when they were both on the bed and Peanut got too close to her (she was awake, just for some reason she didn't go away that time), and once when my husband had food he was giving to Peanut and the dog thought she should have it (she didn't actually get her that time). *The times that she has bitten her, she hasn't actually broken skin.* Though she has recently bitten me and broken my skin (I was trying to take off her sweater).

re:bolded
I didn't realize the dog had already bitten the baby. *no way no how* would i keep an animal that has already bit my baby. sorry op. can you find a new place for the dog- maybe someone who would let you have the dog back when baby is older?


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## JBaxter (May 1, 2005)

Im with the others the dog NEEDS to go. You will never be able to truely trust the dog. We love our chinese crested but if he ever opened his mouth to my 13 month old ( or 6yr , 15 yr or 18yr) he would be gone. Its not fair a child should suffer because of a pet. They should be safe in their own home with out fear of harm from a dog ( or cat ) bite.


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lactatinggirl* 
Thank you all for your advice. I would really like to avoid getting rid of my dog if at all possible. I'm having a one-on-one trainer come to my house.

I don't think she's jealous, though she might be territorial. She never snaps at people outside of our house. Mostly when Peanut goes near her, she just walks away. Peanut likes to follow her though. Sometimes she growls and we correct her. The times that she has snapped at her have been once when Peanut cornered her, once when they were both on the bed and Peanut got too close to her (she was awake, just for some reason she didn't go away that time), and once when my husband had food he was giving to Peanut and the dog thought she should have it (she didn't actually get her that time). *The times that she has bitten her, she hasn't actually broken skin. Though she has recently bitten me and broken my skin (I was trying to take off her sweater).*

There is NO WAY I would keep a dog who was actually biting me or my child. There is nothing on this earth that would make me do that.


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## Mama2Jesse (Jan 5, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JBaxter* 
Im with the others the dog NEEDS to go. You will never be able to truely trust the dog. We love our chinese crested but if he ever opened his mouth to my 13 month old ( or 6yr , 15 yr or 18yr) he would be gone. Its not fair a child should suffer because of a pet. They should be safe in their own home with out fear of harm from a dog ( or cat ) bite.

Yes. In all honesty, I have seen what a dog can do to a child. A dog that there is *any* question about needs to go. It is not worht the pain and disfigurement for your little one, who cannot speak for him/herself.

Babies and children deserve a safe home. I am sorry for your heartache, but do it now before your baby is injured. Please.


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## Mama2Jesse (Jan 5, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lactatinggirl* 
Thank you all for your advice. I would really like to avoid getting rid of my dog if at all possible. I'm having a one-on-one trainer come to my house.

I don't think she's jealous, though she might be territorial. She never snaps at people outside of our house. Mostly when Peanut goes near her, she just walks away. Peanut likes to follow her though. Sometimes she growls and we correct her. The times that she has snapped at her have been once when Peanut cornered her, once when they were both on the bed and Peanut got too close to her (she was awake, just for some reason she didn't go away that time), and once when my husband had food he was giving to Peanut and the dog thought she should have it (she didn't actually get her that time). The times that she has bitten her, she hasn't actually broken skin. Though she has recently bitten me and broken my skin (I was trying to take off her sweater).

Just saw this.

Ho-LEE crap. Red flag, huge big waving in your face. Doggy needs to go. TBH, one snap or growl here and the dog would have been PTS that day.

Mama, I say this all out of genuine concern. Why are you waiting until your baby is hurt? When will it be bad enough that you will step in an accept this is not okay?

This dog has issues. They may be correctable, but this is not something you have the luxury of working with. You have a child now. You dog is threatening to do real harm to your child. Respond accordingly.


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## freestyler (Jan 28, 2005)

I am ITA with Mom2Jesse. You must protect your child. A dog is just a dog, and, well, can be replaced later. your child cannot be replaced and you MUST protect her and keep her from being maimed or worse. Why is there even a question??


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## Dabble (Jun 14, 2007)

Another vote for get rid of the dog. I hope that doesn't sound flip lacking compassion, but the dog can no longer be considered safe in your home.

Find the dog a new home WITHOUT children, or have her put to sleep. I know that's a hard pill to swallow, but it's the only way you can keep your daughter safe, and that of course is where your priorities lie.

Hugs for you mama. It really stinks to be in such a situation, and I know first-hand the agony of having to make a decision like this. I can guarantee that this dog will bite your baby again, training or not. Please don't let that happen.


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *freestyler* 
I am ITA with Mom2Jesse. You must protect your child. *A dog is just a dog, and, well, can be replaced later.* your child cannot be replaced and you MUST protect her and keep her from being maimed or worse. Why is there even a question??

in my experience it's attitudes like the bolded that lead to large amounts of animals showing up at the animal shelter and being killed. a dog can NOT be _replaced_ any more than your child can and i feel really sad that there are people out there that think that individual creatures are interchangeable.









to the OP, i am really glad that you are seeing a trainer but i really don't think that keeping your dog will be an option. do you have any family or friends without children that would be willing to adopt her so that you could still keep in contact? what about the breeder? most breeders have a 100% return policy if anything happens in your life and you must get rid of the dog. when we were breeding we re-homed two of our puppies (out of a total of 14) due to conflicts, one of those was at six years old.

i'm so sorry you are in this situation, it really is very hard.


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## indie (Jun 16, 2003)

Perhaps you're not thinking clearly because you are emotionally attached to the dog, but you have to find a new home for him. This dog has bit your BABY multiple times. I'm only guessing here, but I think CPS would consider removing your child if they knew that the baby was repeatedly bit and you did not remove the dog from the home. Dogs have seriously injured and even killed children. Its just not worth the risk.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

The dog has bitten your baby MULTIPLE TIMES. Whether or not the baby bled doesn't change the fact. IMO you have two options - the dog becomes a strictly outside dog or you find it another home. I can appreciate that it is a hard decision to rehome a beloved pet, but your baby's safety is more important.

Really, what it boils down to for me is do you want to rehome the dog before your child is seriously injured or after?


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## babeak (Jan 10, 2008)

I have never begged anything, but I am going to right now. Please remove the dog. I had no idea that she had already snapped at Peanut. Paying a ton of money will not make this dog bite-proof. Think about your Peanut losing an eye or part of a lip. Is it worth it? I know that it is hard. On the way to the emergency room I said that the dog has to go. DH argued to keep the dog. OUR dog had NEVER EVER BIT ANYONE.

Please don't think that it won't happen to you. I could never ever have dreamed in a million years that it would happen to us. I just don't want it be a real bite that makes you reconsider.

Here is some more info:
Getting bitten by a dog is the fifth most frequent cause of visits to emergency rooms caused by activities common among children. (See Weiss HB, Friedman DI, Coben JH. Incidence of dog bite injuries treated in emergency departments, JAMA 1998;279:53; also see US Consumer Product Safety Commission

If you still have some questions in your mind... enter in children and dog bites into a Goolge image search. It is not pretty. I know that you would not want to see any of that happening to Peanut.

Hope that you can either keep them apart or re-home the dog for awhile (maybe Peanut's grandparents will help you out with that). I KNOW how hard that is as I had a LOT of personal time investing with training our dog in addition to being our family who flew on airplanes and went EVERYWHERE with us. He even rode in a backpack on my back while I rode the bike. It was a hard decision in some ways, but ultimately once DH finally put DD safety and my sanity as priority #1, it was much easier. I seriously do miss the dog, but I do NOT miss the anxiety.

I commend you for getting a trainer, but it may not be enough. I hope that you have a good one who has extensive experience and who will be honest with you about your dog's capacities.

Best wishes.


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## lactatinggirl (Nov 22, 2009)

I understand you all think that I'm a horrible parent, but enough with the begging me to get rid of my dog. My dog is a part of my family. No, she is not more important than my daughter. No, she is not less important then a couch.

That said, I am trying to remedy the problem. I am having a one-on-one trainer come and help us with her. I realize that getting rid of her is an option that I have to consider, but I'm not so willing to just give up on someone I love. But if the training doesn't work, I will look into that option.

Also, I'm not trying to justify her biting but I need you all to realize that I am talking about a 20 pound dog. I know that small dogs can still do damage, but I'm thinking it's highly unlikely that my daughter is going to get seriously injured. I know that any risk is an unreasonable risk, but the situation would be different if my dog was larger.

So please stop trying to make me feel guilty. It's so easy to look at this from an outside perspective and say that I should just get rid of my dog and I'm a horrible parent if I don't (btw, how dare you threaten me with my daughter being taken away from me indie), but you can only see this objectively when this is so clearly a subjective matter.


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
The dog has bitten your baby MULTIPLE TIMES. Whether or not the baby bled doesn't change the fact. IMO you have two options - the dog becomes a strictly outside dog or you find it another home. I can appreciate that it is a hard decision to rehome a beloved pet, but your baby's safety is more important.

Really, what it boils down to for me is do you want to rehome the dog before your child is seriously injured or after?

This, absolutely this!

20lb dogs can and do seriously injure small children, btw.

You don't seem to want this input, but I think the dog should go, like most PPs. I lived in terror around kindergarten age b/c of a cocker spaniel my father loved and didn't think would really hurt me that nipped me, chased me and finally bit my leg deeply. I still remember it vividly!


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

The size of the dog is actually not a factor. Small dogs can do a lot of damage and also, they're quick and right at the same level. Big dogs are often mellower and less often threatened by babies but that's OT.

Sorry you are faced with this dilemma. You can't have them together. This is too much of a risk.

Do you have a garage where you can keep the dog?


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## Roxswood (Jun 29, 2006)

The choice is between finding your dog another loving home and risking your child being seriously injured. I'm with everyone else. The pp was not threatening you with having your child taken away (if that was so she'd be saying that SHE was going to call CPS) but pointing out that this is a secondary risk to keeping the dog.

I can understand that you wouldn't want to have the dog put down over this, but that is also what you are risking by keeping this dog. You can rehome it now, before anyone has been seriously bitten, into a family with no small children and let it live a happy life or you can risk having a seriously injured child (small dogs could very easily damage an eye to the point of blindness or cause permanent scarring on the child's face with even a not very serious attack) and then also being forced to put your dog to sleep. In my opinion you are not trying to make the right choice for either the dog or child here, simply for your own emotions over it all.


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## Bubblette (Apr 26, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lactatinggirl* 
Thank you all for your advice. I would really like to avoid getting rid of my dog if at all possible. I'm having a one-on-one trainer come to my house.

I don't think she's jealous, though she might be territorial. She never snaps at people outside of our house. Mostly when Peanut goes near her, she just walks away. Peanut likes to follow her though. Sometimes she growls and we correct her. The times that she has snapped at her have been once when Peanut cornered her, once when they were both on the bed and Peanut got too close to her (she was awake, just for some reason she didn't go away that time), and once when my husband had food he was giving to Peanut and the dog thought she should have it (she didn't actually get her that time). The times that she has bitten her, she hasn't actually broken skin. Though she has recently bitten me and broken my skin (I was trying to take off her sweater).

Babies should not be allowed to toddle after dogs. Personally, I don't think children and dogs belong on the same beds (in general, though there are some exceptions of course). In those two instances I don't think the dog was "wrong" I think the dog was being a dog. All they have to communicate with is their bodies, they growl to warn you "I DON'T LIKE THAT" they bite when growling, walking away etc does not work. Your dog does not like your child invading her space. Again this is personally, but I don't reprimand for growling, I see it as a sign something is amiss that I must address. If you suppress growling you can push a dog into biting without warning. Your pup is giving you warning now.

All of the above it not to say I think keeping your pup is the best option. I don't think I could handle having a child and a dog in that type of situation. I would probably seek to re-home my dog in your situation. A one on one behaviorist/trainer is indeed what you need if you are insistent on keeping your dog. That being said you NEED NEED NEED to put up gates, keep your baby from molesting your dog, and keep them AWAY from each-other.

A 20 pound dog can kill a child.


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## JBaxter (May 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lactatinggirl* 
I understand you all think that I'm a horrible parent, but enough with the begging me to get rid of my dog. My dog is a part of my family. No, she is not more important than my daughter. No, she is not less important then a couch.

That said, I am trying to remedy the problem. I am having a one-on-one trainer come and help us with her. I realize that getting rid of her is an option that I have to consider, but I'm not so willing to just give up on someone I love. But if the training doesn't work, I will look into that option.

Also, I'm not trying to justify her biting but I need you all to realize that I am talking about a 20 pound dog. I know that small dogs can still do damage, but I'm thinking it's highly unlikely that my daughter is going to get seriously injured. I know that any risk is an unreasonable risk, but the situation would be different if my dog was larger.

So please stop trying to make me feel guilty. It's so easy to look at this from an outside perspective and say that I should just get rid of my dog and I'm a horrible parent if I don't (btw, how dare you threaten me with my daughter being taken away from me indie), but you can only see this objectively when this is so clearly a subjective matter.

There should be not MAKING your feel guilty you KNOW the dog is a danger to your baby. Babies TRUMP PETS. The multilple bits that didnt break skin are just precursors to what will happen once the toddler phase kicks in well. Yes social services HAVE taken children from parents who had pets that caused injury to the child and the parents KEPT the pets. Your dog needs to be kept in a room gated off from your baby and?or crated till you get the dog rehomed. I cant believe you are actually willing to wait till your baby has a serious injury before you get rid of the dog.

Sorry this post is harsh but Im a dog lover and have 2 very close friends who run rescues ( which I help with) Its not like I'm a non dog lover. Some pets should not be around babies.


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## choosewisdom (Apr 29, 2009)

I work in pediatric ICU. I recently cared for a child that was attacked by a beloved family pet. The dog had given the child a "warning bite" once before and not "broken the skin". The family hired a behavioral specialist to work with the dog, and had kept the two separated, but one day a slip of a visiting neighbor and the gate was left ajar. The dog did so much damage that the little one will never again close her left eye, post two plastic surgeries.

She had multiple blood transfusions in order to save her life, and after required some infusions of clotting factors. She stayed with us for over three weeks, and is now still in the hospital but on another floor. They had pictures of her on the wall, and I would never have thought it was the same child.

These people loved this dog, and they wanted so much to keep the dog, but now the dog is going to be put to sleep. Both situations could have been avoided if the family had chosen to let the dog go into foster care with a family that did not have any small children.

Please, do not allow this situation to happen to your child. ONE BITE is TOO MANY!!! Even if it didn't "break the skin".

PS the dog that hospitalized the baby was only a twenty pound dog!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Veronika01 (Apr 16, 2007)

Babies are soft and squishy. A dog's teeth and jaws are not and your 20lb dog is stronger than you imagine. Even if it doesn't kill your baby, the soft tissue damage it can do in just a couple of seconds is immense. You posted here and asked for advice. You've gotten an abundance of it and now you're scoffing it off. It really does seem like a no-brainer to me.







And I'm one of those people who saw my dogs as my "babies" before I had children.


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## Mama2Jesse (Jan 5, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lactatinggirl* 
I understand you all think that I'm a horrible parent, but enough with the begging me to get rid of my dog. My dog is a part of my family. No, she is not more important than my daughter. No, she is not less important then a couch.

That said, I am trying to remedy the problem. I am having a one-on-one trainer come and help us with her. I realize that getting rid of her is an option that I have to consider, but I'm not so willing to just give up on someone I love. But if the training doesn't work, I will look into that option.

Also, I'm not trying to justify her biting but I need you all to realize that I am talking about a 20 pound dog. I know that small dogs can still do damage, but I'm thinking it's highly unlikely that my daughter is going to get seriously injured. I know that any risk is an unreasonable risk, but the situation would be different if my dog was larger.

So please stop trying to make me feel guilty. It's so easy to look at this from an outside perspective and say that I should just get rid of my dog and I'm a horrible parent if I don't (btw, how dare you threaten me with my daughter being taken away from me indie), but you can only see this objectively when this is so clearly a subjective matter.

Nobody is threatening you or trying to make you feel guilty. People are frightened for your child being kept in the same home as an aggressive dog.

Listen, please. I, too, am begging you. *Nothing* trumps baby's safety. Not a cat, not a dog, not a husband. You know this.

Twenty pound dogs can and do kill. Do you know what will happen if your dog has enough? She will either slash at her face, or grab your baby by the face or neck and she will shake. I'm sorry to be so graphic, but mama, this is your baby, your flesh and blood! And innocent child who needs to be protected! I have seen children with horrible scars, held little siblings after the fact as they cried in fear. I've seen children missing ears. We've all seen the sobbing mother on the news, because "Fido was a great dog, I don't know what happened".

You wouldn't put her in the car sans carseat. You wouldn't leave her outside alone. You wouldn't let her play in a room full of exposed wiring. But, please mama, realize... you are letting her live in a home with an aggressive animal.

So what should a mother do if her child is threatened? Allow the aggressor of harm (against an infant!) to continue to breathe, let alone live in the same house? No, mama. You know this.

I know it's hard. We put down a dog we'd had from a puppy when we had our baby. I sobbed. Hardest thing to do.

But still alot easier than seeing scars on my precious child that *I* could have prevented. Or worse, losing my baby.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Your dog has bitten your *infant* several times and you are not getting rid of her? That is unbelievable.


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## moaningminny (Dec 31, 2007)

The size of the dog doesn't matter. Your child deserves to be safe. Please find the dog a more suitable home.


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## DandeCobb (Jul 20, 2006)

I just want to be the tenth person to tell you that is not okay. I'm sorry you are going to lose your dog but it needs to go


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

My sister has two cockers and they went through a period of fighting with each other - sister got bitten so badly trying to separate them that she had to go to the ER and get stitches.

Don't kid yourself that a 20lb dog can't do any real damage. Especially not to a completely defenseless baby!

If you are determined to keep the dog, you must take responsibility for keeping dog and baby separate at all times. Never, never leave them alone, do not have them on the bed together (personally I think dogs should never be on the bed, it makes them think they rank equally with the humans in the family pack). Get baby gates and use them to keep dog and baby in separate rooms, at all times, always. Crate the dog if you cannot use gates.

Sorry if you feel guilty, but maybe that's your inner voice telling you something you need to listen to.


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## lonegirl (Oct 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *freestyler* 
I am ITA with Mom2Jesse. You must protect your child. *A dog is just a dog, and, well, can be replaced later*. your child cannot be replaced and you MUST protect her and keep her from being maimed or worse. Why is there even a question??

While I agree the dog must be removed from the home....I totally do not agree with the bolded area. People go through the grieving stages with pets as they do other family members. Having seen many animals put down for varying reasons the people doing so respond with such grief that you can't just have the frame of mind that a dog is just a dog.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

I put my dog down for biting. He bit my son twice. Warning bites. I rationalized it at first because the bites didn't break skin, but soon enough my dog began to go after my husband as well. I tried behavior sessions, I tried to find a shelter who would take him. I begged the final shelter to put him through a behavior test before I made the decision to put him down, which he failed absolutely.

People who love their pets sometimes have to make this decision. All of the behavior experts who spoke with me told me that it was unrealistic to think my dog would be safe around my family ever again. Biters are not to be trusted.


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## samikashi (Mar 15, 2008)

The day a dog decides to put his teeth on a child is the day that dog decided not to be apart of a family. My thoughts anyway.

And please... don't think a 20 lb dog is harmless. A 12 lb doxie left scars on my son's cheeks and even a 5 lb dog would have no problem snagging (and tearing!) a lip, eye, nose, or ear.

ETA:
The 12 lb doxie I reference above was my Mom's decade long companion/shadow, _before he was put down. It was, unfortuntely, the last resort._


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lonegirl* 
While I agree the dog must be removed from the home....I totally do not agree with the bolded area. People go through the grieving stages with pets as they do other family members. Having seen many animals put down for varying reasons the people doing so respond with such grief that you can't just have the frame of mind that a dog is just a dog.


I still cry about it. I know some animal lovers can't fathom having to do what I did. I couldn't fathom it before I did it. It took me months and months of having him in the house intervening in his aggression and wishing it away with behavior experts and training, but in the end nothing worked.

I understand wanting to try and make it work, but the outlook is grim once a dog has bitten people.


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## nudhistbudhist (Jan 13, 2009)

We have two American Pitt Bull Terriers, and I have a 15 mo and I'm 8 m pg. Our first pit was a rescue. We were not looking for a pit bull, just a dog but this one was in a very crappy situation, and the guy was selling her for party money for the weekend. Before deciding to buy her, we did a LOT of research... Wow, if there is one breed out there that I have SO MUCH empathy and compassion for, its Pit bulls. Most people think pitbulls are viscous dogs, vicious to humans, etc. They are not. They have been selectively BRED BY HUMANS to produce dogs who will fight another dog to death, no matter how hurt they are, because that is what their owners asked of them. This characteristic is called "gameness." ITs so cruel that humans would use these dog's big hearts and need to please in this way









These dogs are DOG AGGRESSIVE. In dog fighting, the two opponent handlers actually trade dogs, and wash the opposing dog down before the fight. This is to ensure the dog has not been sprayed with any kind of deterrent that would make the other dog not want to bite him. Point being, these dogs are dog aggressive, not human aggressive, by nature.

The reason I'm telling you this is because as a dog owner, you must be aware of the characteristics of your dog's breed, so you know what you are dealing with. Spaniels have extremely an extremely high prey drive. You should do some research on prey drive and children. Also, talk to a behavioralist if you want further information on your dog in particular.

Anyone who says you have to get rid of any dog you don't trust is WRONG. Wrong because you should NOT EVER TRUST any dog with you children. Problems happen because dogs are trusted 200% around their children, especially when the breed is not one people consider "vicious." We use baby gates and fences to keep our son and dogs separated. This is not stressful for us. We know its what we do while the children are little. We also keep our dogs separated from each other because we know the breed, and would not want either dog getting hurt. Wrestling is great exercise for them, but the nature of the breed is that is a disagreement ever occurred, neither one is likely to back down, because they are game-bred.

Would you get rid of your child if he/she bit other children? Or would you, knowing your child, keep your child from getting into those situations, until the phase past? What is going on with your dog will likely be resolved when you child is older and has more respect for the dog's boundaries. Also, If your dog is not enjoying being chased by your child, it isn't fair to expect the dog to just sit there and take it. The dog is communicating a need to you. It is up to you to resolve this for the safety of your dog and child. My dogs did not particularly enjoy my ds's presence until recently. DS can pet them and give them treats now (with our help, of course). They have also learned how to walk past him slowly... in the past they would run past him because they were unsure of him, and he would get knocked over by accident, or get hit with a tail (pitbulls have very strong, whiplike tails lol). It's a matter of keeping everyone safe so they can all grow and learn together

Don't give up. Just get more informed and get a plan together







I also disagree with the death penalty for animals and people. I think a lot of people who totally disagree with the death penalty for human violent offenders haven't really though it through for dogs. The argument that its for the safety of others applies to both situations, yet we have different morals regarding both animals (yes, humans are animals!!)


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## Pepper44 (May 16, 2006)

I would keep the dog *only* if I could be committed to keeping the dog blocked in a room away from my child, or crated, or outside. It would be so stressful to worry over the dog and the child every second, otherwise!

That being said, my 60 pound coonhound once bit my DD when she was 2. It was a nip on her hand, no blood. The dog was napping at the foot of the bed and DD flopped onto his back from behind his head. I wanted to give him away for a few days and started looking for a new home. Then I talked to a trainer and realized that he nipped as a warning, because he regarded DD as lower in the pack than him and he wanted her out of his space.

DD fed him lots of treats, she filled up his food bowl and handed it to him, he's no longer allowed on the bed or the couch, and he totally knows his place now. I don't trust him 100%, but he and DD are fine together. At age 3 she knows not to clamber all over him, and he knows that he has to sit quietly and take treats from her and so on. We had zero problems since.

I still will not leave my coonhound and our new baby alone, when she's born. I'll probably keep him gated in another room, outside, or crated when I'm not right there. The dog knows to go lay down in his spot in the living room, so it's not a problem to keep a crawling baby away from there when you're watching closely, and since I will wear the baby a lot there won't be to many instances when the dog has to be separate.

To the OP, if I were you, honestly, I would just look for someone else to take the dog so you don't have to worry. You can probably find an older couple or a single person or a family with no kids. If your dog is biting the baby, the dog probably isn't happy and would be better off!


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Nudist, you said that I was "WRONG" to think I need to get rid of a biting dog because I can not longer trust him, and that the answer is to completely separate the dog from anyone he may bite, is that right? Or, what exactly are you saying? Because a dog who has bitten is far different from a dog who could potentially bite, which is, of course, all dogs.

I think maybe you are taking my word "trust" and using it to further the point that you can work out a biting situation with animals and humans. Your dogs have never bitten and it isn't because you have taken precautions. You assume I didn't take precautions, I think?

I never trusted Gizmo to be with Seth alone. I did trust Gizmo to be with my husband alone until he attacked my husband. And then I was on alert whenever they were in the room together, but these things didn't help the situation. My dog bit both my son and husband while I was in the room, while I was trying to control the situation.

I was using the word "trust" in a relative way. I do not absolutely trust any dog, as you have confirmed; dogs can not be trusted absolutely because of their pack mentality. But I certainly trusted him to not behave pathologically, which he began to do. Unfortunately, when a dog begins to behave pathologically, enough so that he is biting his own pack, he needs to go.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

As for the death penalty for dogs. If there were a place I could have taken Gizmo where he would be safe and others would be safe from him, I would have. We don't have doggie detainment camps. Or at least not anywhere near where I was. I tried every single shelter in town. No one would take him. He couldn't stay with us because his behavior was unsafe and not getting any better. I suppose I could have kept him in the kennel his whole life, but I consider that much more cruel than putting him down. I wasn't going to set him loose in the woods to fend for himself, so what then?

The best thing I could have done for him is put him down while holding him in my arms and telling him he was a good dog. Which I did.


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## SamiPolizzi (May 23, 2009)

I don't think you're a bad parent AT ALL for not immediately getting rid of your dog. I'm starting to have the same problem with my dog and my 8mo, and I'm calling a behaviorist tomorrow. I've considered the possibility that I may have to get rid of my dog if it doesn't get better, but I'm going to try every other possible solution first.


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## lactatinggirl (Nov 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nudhistbudhist* 
*Would you get rid of your child if he/she bit other children?* Or would you, knowing your child, keep your child from getting into those situations, until the phase past? What is going on with your dog will likely be resolved when you child is older and has more respect for the dog's boundaries. Also, If your dog is not enjoying being chased by your child, it isn't fair to expect the dog to just sit there and take it. The dog is communicating a need to you. It is up to you to resolve this for the safety of your dog and child. My dogs did not particularly enjoy my ds's presence until recently. DS can pet them and give them treats now (with our help, of course). They have also learned how to walk past him slowly... in the past they would run past him because they were unsure of him, and he would get knocked over by accident, or get hit with a tail (pitbulls have very strong, whiplike tails lol). It's a matter of keeping everyone safe so they can all grow and learn together

Don't give up. Just get more informed and get a plan together







I also disagree with the death penalty for animals and people. I think a lot of people who totally disagree with the death penalty for human violent offenders haven't really though it through for dogs. The argument that its for the safety of others applies to both situations, yet we have different morals regarding both animals (yes, humans are animals!!)

Thank you. Our dog is not just a dog to us, she is part of our family. I'm not willing to give up on her so easily. We can at least have a behaviorist come and work with her before killing her.

*I am keeping them separate while we get a trainer.* So everyone can calm down about that part.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pepper44* 
That being said, my 60 pound coonhound once bit my DD when she was 2. It was a nip on her hand, no blood. The dog was napping at the foot of the bed and DD flopped onto his back from behind his head. I wanted to give him away for a few days and started looking for a new home. Then I talked to a trainer and realized that *he nipped as a warning*, because he regarded DD as lower in the pack than him and he wanted her out of his space.

My dog's bites were warning bites. She did not attack my daughter. I realize that warning bites are telling me that she will attack, but that is why we're trying to solve the problem as you did.


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## lactatinggirl (Nov 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SamiPolizzi* 
I don't think you're a bad parent AT ALL for not immediately getting rid of your dog. I'm starting to have the same problem with my dog and my 8mo, and I'm calling a behaviorist tomorrow. I've considered the possibility that I may have to get rid of my dog if it doesn't get better, but I'm going to try every other possible solution first.

That's exactly what we're doing. I think that putting her down is the *last resort* and I will do everything else possible before having to do that. It seems like everyone here just jumps to the dog needing to be put down.

I posted this because I wanted advice on what other people have done to *solve* the problem, not discard it.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

My parents got rid of their cocker when it bit their oldest kid as a baby.


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## finn'smama (Jan 11, 2006)

Your dog is biting your baby! Either get rid of it or keep them separated 100% of the time.
This dog is giving warnings and one of these days it'll be serious. Do you really want to wait for that day?? Because it will happen. And you can avoid it by getting rid of the dog right now.
I honestly can't even believe you have to think about it, I really can't


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## meisterfrau (Sep 24, 2005)

If person after person is telling you, asking you, BEGGING you to get rid of the dog before it seriously injures your baby, maybe you should consider that probably not all of them are crazy. I think the person that said CPS would take the baby if they knew you were allowing him/her to be bitten repeatedly is probably right. It would look to them at the very least like poor judgment, and at worst like callous disregard for your child's safety.

The time to work with the dog to improve the behavior was BEFORE the dog began to bite. That ship has sailed, and now the responsible thing is to rehome the animal to a home without children.


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## freestylemama (Apr 8, 2009)

I agree with everyone else that it's time to rehome your pup.









I remember being devastated when my parents put down our beloved dog after he nipped the neighbor child. It was sad, but necessary. Aggressive dogs and children do not mix. Please get rid of your dog. Your child deserves safety. I know you love them both, but kids win. It's really that simple. You need to get rid of that dog. You can be sad about it and you can miss that dog, but you really need to put your child first. This isn't about people "trying to make you feel guilty". It's about people trying to protect your child and urging you to do the hard, responsible thing.


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## lactatinggirl (Nov 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *finn'smama* 
Your dog is biting your baby! *Either get rid of it or keep them separated 100% of the time.*
This dog is giving warnings and one of these days it'll be serious. Do you really want to wait for that day?? Because it will happen. And you can avoid it by getting rid of the dog right now.
I honestly can't even believe you have to think about it, I really can't









I just said I'm keeping them separated.


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## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

Would you like to see the scar I have across my face from where "most gentle dog" in the world bit me, the scar is 32 years old and it's still there clear as day. After the dog bit me and the ER stitched me up my mom took me to a plastic surgeon who told her there was nothing more they could do. I was 18 months old........

We have 2 dogs and 3 cats, I'm a big believer in animals are part of the family, however dogs aren't people. If your dog has already biten the BABY I fear for what would happen when she becomes a toddler.


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## nudhistbudhist (Jan 13, 2009)

I was saying that getting rid of a dog based soley on the fact of "trust" is wrong, because you shouldn't ever trust a dog. That's all I was was saying. As in, we should keep this dog because we trust her around the kids, she'd never bite, blah blah blah means nothing. Young children do not have authority over pack animals. Its a given. I also wouldn't leave my toddler with a baby chicken. The chicken has no authority over my child, and is likely to get hurt









As for wether to put down a dog or not after it has bitten someone, I truly believe that for myself personally, even if my dog bit someone, I would prefer to have a dog kennel area where the dog was contained, than put it down. I think that humans have a tendancy to think of so much of our world as disposable, even precious life itself. Many times the easiest solution is to get rid of something than spend the time or energy or money to fix the problem. Many of us don't have the time, money, energy or space to care for these animals properly. But if that's the case, it should be ok to be honest and say that, rather than say it was better for the dog that it die. Perhaps one of us will feel inspired by this problem and create resources such as this one: http://www.endangereddogs.com/

I think many dogs that have bitten have been disposed of before anyone had looked deeply into the reason for the bite. Some dogs may have undiagnosed medical conditions, but because they cannot speak for themselves, it's very hard to know whats going on. I have seen horses sold for slaughter for the same kind of thing. A horse with a back problem can become a real A** and dangerous to be around. But from the outside, everything appears normal. And what about parents who have absolutley lost control and spanked their kids even when they are not "spankers" by nature? A lot of people on this board believe that spanking is child abuse. Would we lock this person in jail or put them on death row, because it's a warning that this person may do something worse in the future? Hopefully we would try to find the reason, and provide the person with the tools and resources to heal.

I am not saying no animals should ever die by human hands. I am a compassionate meat eater. We raise animals on our farm, and they are all treated with love and respect, and we are grateful for the nourishment they provide. And while its sad, we do kill and eat them. To me, its just as sad, but fair and right if an animal kills and eats a human. It happens. It's sad but ok. But if a grizzly or a cougar were to kill every human that it thought was violent or dangerous to them, there would a lot less people on his planet, and we would have a huge problem with that. Humans are THE most dangerous creature on this planet. Our violence is so much more broad.. we destroy everything around us for our silly creature comforts... We are permanently killing off species EVERY DAY!!! yet.... we aren't executing oil executives, or fish farmers, or loggers... Strange, isn't it!


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## meisterfrau (Sep 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nudhistbudhist* 
Humans are THE most dangerous creature on this planet. Our violence is so much more broad.. we destroy everything around us for our silly creature comforts... We are permanently killing off species EVERY DAY!!! yet.... we aren't executing oil executives, or fish farmers, or loggers... Strange, isn't it!

I didn't mention execution in my post, but rest assured if a human was repeatedly harming her baby, I'd certainly advocate she keep them apart in that case also.


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## nudhistbudhist (Jan 13, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meisterfrau* 
If person after person is telling you, asking you, BEGGING you to get rid of the dog before it seriously injures your baby, maybe you should consider that probably not all of them are crazy.

If everyone was telling me to CIO and formula feed, should I do that too??
People are often misinformed!!!!


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## meisterfrau (Sep 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nudhistbudhist* 
If everyone was telling me to CIO and formula feed, should I do that too??
People are often misinformed!!!!

They certainly are.

I'm not, though. Neither are the others suggesting what I suggested about the dog.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lactatinggirl* 
I just said I'm keeping them separated.

you seem to be annoyed that people are thinking you are not doing enough, but the truth is, you aren't doing enough. the dog has bit your child more than once, and has also bit you and you are "getting a trainier". the second your dog bit your child the first time, you should have been on the phone calling around for and hiring a trainer. you seems to be dragging your feet on that, so yes, people are going to assume you are not being 100% diligent in the effort to keep your child safe.

you have already let this problem go on too long and that is going to make it harder to train the behavior out of the dog. (my BFF is a dog trainer and we have had many long conversations about training aggression out of dogs) the pattern has been established and you have essentially "allowed" your dog to dominate your child.


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## finn'smama (Jan 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nudhistbudhist* 
If everyone was telling me to CIO and formula feed, should I do that too??
People are often misinformed!!!!

No one here is misinformed. Dangerous dogs need to be kept away from people, especially babies. Period.


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## nudhistbudhist (Jan 13, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meisterfrau* 
I didn't mention execution in my post, but rest assured if a human was repeatedly harming her baby, I'd certainly advocate she keep them apart in that case also.

ITA! We have our one dog in the barn, and the other lives in the basement... the basement dog comes up when DS is in his high chair, or when I can sit with ds and help him to control his hands. The dogs both spend 90% of their days outside in their fenced yards, chewing up stumps and bones, and hoof trimmings









We do all this with dogs that we love and have never growled, nipped, or even given ds a look I didn't like. We do this to ensure that the dogs are never in a situation that they have to communicate discomfort in any of the above ways. These dogs both lived in the house with us until I got pregnant, then we slowly made these changes BEFORE ds was born, so that they didn't feel suddenly displaced by the newborn. I'm sure things will change once the kids are older, but until then, this is what we will do to keep our family safe together


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## nudhistbudhist (Jan 13, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *finn'smama* 
No one here is misinformed. Dangerous dogs need to be kept away from people, especially babies. Period.

I never said they didn't, I said dogs and children should be kept seperate, and that "dangerous dogs" shouldn't be killed. And that people are often misinformed. People may be telling her to kill the dog. or to CIO. either way, peoples opinions are just that. Opinions. Including mine. But discussion can lead to insight... that's what we are all after, isnt it... just more information to help us make our decisions, not peer pressure.

ETA: Doing something because others are telling you to do it isn't a good enough reason (for me, anyways), even if its the right thing to do, like keeping them separate. I think its good to do your own research and dig a little farther... along with keeping them separate, it would be a good idea to research WHY dogs bite, especially why they bite children, because as the OP mentioned, this dog also doesn't like strangers. Perhaps there is more going on with the dog. The fact that the dog didn't like strangers would have been enough for me to take the dog to a behaviorist while I was pregnant (or even before pregnancy!) to see what changes could be made ahead of time. Some dogs are fear biters. Some dogs have bad eyesight, and bite because they cant see whats going on. There are also more dog bites in hot weather... etc etc.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nudhistbudhist* 
! yet.... we aren't executing oil executives, or fish farmers, or loggers... Strange, isn't it!

Not strange to me as human life trumps the life of a tree or animal, no matter how destructive and awful that human is to the planet.You're right though, we throw away so much, even animal life (I really appreciated reading your first paragraph about this- didn't really link the material with living things before), and this dog doesn't need to be executed yet.

The safest, and most humane option for both child and dog is to foster the dog out.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Not everyone is advocating putting the dog to sleep. Many of us are saying that the dog either needs to live outside or in the garage, etc OR be rehomed to a family without children. And to not be made to wear sweaters...









I understand the dog is part of the family; I really do. And I'm glad you are keeping them separate, OP. After what you describe, I wouldn't put them back together at all until the child is at least eight, and that is assuming your child truly understands how wide a berth the dog requires.


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## lactatinggirl (Nov 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamameg* 
you seem to be annoyed that people are thinking you are not doing enough, but the truth is, you aren't doing enough. the dog has bit your child more than once, and has also bit you and you are "getting a trainier". the second your dog bit your child the first time, you should have been on the phone calling around for and hiring a trainer. you seems to be dragging your feet on that, so yes, people are going to assume you are not being 100% diligent in the effort to keep your child safe.

you have already let this problem go on too long and that is going to make it harder to train the behavior out of the dog. (my BFF is a dog trainer and we have had many long conversations about training aggression out of dogs) the pattern has been established and you have essentially "allowed" your dog to dominate your child.

Yes, I may have "dragged my feet" in getting a trainer, but it's only because I thought I could handle the situation myself. The trainer who did the obedience classes with us before told us that our dog wouldn't be aggressive towards the baby because she would see her grow up before the baby could grab at her. She didn't show any aggression towards my daughter until recently. My dog only snapped at my daughter for the first time less than a month ago and I've been talking to trainers ever since. It's only recently that I've found one that can come to my house (since my dog doesn't act aggressive outside of the house).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nudhistbudhist* 
ETA: Doing something because others are telling you to do it isn't a good enough reason (for me, anyways), even if its the right thing to do, like keeping them separate. I think its good to do your own research and dig a little farther... along with keeping them separate, it would be a good idea to research WHY dogs bite, especially why they bite children, because as the OP mentioned, this dog also doesn't like strangers. Perhaps there is more going on with the dog. The fact that the dog didn't like strangers would have been enough for me to take the dog to a behaviorist while I was pregnant (or even before pregnancy!) to see what changes could be made ahead of time. Some dogs are fear biters. Some dogs have bad eyesight, and bite because they cant see whats going on. There are also more dog bites in hot weather... etc etc.

I have been researching her aggression for a long time and have read 5+ books on dog aggression. She did go to two obedience classes right when we got her. It was only recently that I found someone who can do one-on-one training at my house (as stated above).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
Not everyone is advocating putting the dog to sleep. Many of us are saying that the dog either needs to live outside or in the garage, etc OR be rehomed to a family without children. And to not be made to wear sweaters...









She was wearing a sweater for her own benefit. We live in Utah and it recently snowed and she has her hair cut very short. She spends a lot of time in the backyard when we are not home and she needs to stay warm.


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

OP- I am sorry you have been offended by the responses to your thread. You did post in "Family Safety", everyone here is just trying to help you keep your child safe.

I understand you are hiring a personal trainer. You also said you would consider rehoming the dog if the trainer doesn't help. Here is my question: How exactly are you going to determine if the training hasn't help? Does the dog have to bite your kid again and cause injury for you to realize that the training isn't going to change the dog's personality or change the the fact that the dog is a dog?

No one here is questioning whether or not you love your child. But one bite is one bite too many. How would you feel if you knew the dog had the tendency to bite and the dog injured your child? Would you be able to forgive yourself? I wouldn't.


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## lactatinggirl (Nov 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pauletoy* 
OP- I am sorry you have been offended by the responses to your thread. You did post in "Family Safety", everyone here is just trying to help you keep your child safe.

I understand you are hiring a personal trainer. You also said you would consider rehoming the dog if the trainer doesn't help. Here is my question: How exactly are you going to determine if the training hasn't help? Does the dog have to bite your kid again and cause injury for you to realize that the training isn't going to change the dog's personality or change the the fact that the dog is a dog?

No one here is questioning whether or not you love your child. But one bite is one bite too many. How would you feel if you knew the dog had the tendency to bite and the dog injured your child? Would you be able to forgive yourself? I wouldn't.

I'm not offended, I'm just trying to give everyone more understanding of the situation. I do admit that I've been on the defensive, but with some of the things other posters have posted I can't believe that anyone wouldn't be.

I'll be able to tell if the training has helped if she isn't aggressive towards the baby. Biting is not the first step in aggression. Even if it does help, I plan on keeping them separate.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

It sounds like a lot of this goes beyond looking for agression against the baby.

I've got a friend who recently got a small dog. And being obsessive about everything he does, he and his DP hired a dog behaviorist/trainer to teach them how to raise the dog.

They have a lot of rules now, designed to make sure that dog (and it is a SMALL DOG) never, ever, forgets his place in the pack. The dog is not allowed to sit at the same level as the humans, not fed in certain places, not allowed in certain rooms -- all to make sure that dog constantly knows its place in the pack. A dog that is biting you as well as your baby no longer respects you as pack leader, and getting that role back is vital.

I know, when you're at a place like MDC where everyone is talking consensual living and gentle discipline, having to make sure you are the Alpha Dog in your house may seem like a step back, but that is what a dog needs if it's going to live in close quarters with humans.

Further, I will jsut say my father has worn a mustache my entire life because a less than 20 pound dog attempted to take his face off, nearly half a century ago. And he was an adult at the time. Small dogs are capable of a lot of damage, and babies are soft and easy to damage. Please don't write off the possibility of a heartbreaking incident simply because the dog is small.


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Either the dog or the child need to be removed from the home to keep the child safe. I know which one I would choose and am completely flabbergasted that you are even questioning what you should do. Once the teeth make contact with the skin, broken skin or not, it is over.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Problem is, this is very much a created problem. The dog has, apparently, been allowed to be repeatedly "harassed" by the child. "Harassed" is applicable because that it what the dog feels. It has tried to escape the situation by walking away, and the child has been allowed to follow and disturb the dog. The dog has reacted in the only way available to it: first by growling and then by nipping. To be reprimanded for using its instinctual warnings. In reality, the CHILD should have been the one reined in and taught how to interact appropriately with the dog.

I have raised two kids around dogs from infancy. There was NEVER a time when they were together unsupervised or when my children were permitted to harass the dog. The children were taught from the get-go that the only permissible touches were "gentle" ones. No poking eyes or noses, no pulling fur or tails or ears... Only gentle stroking touches, telling the hound what a good boy/girl it was.

And in all honesty, long before the children were in the picture (or even a glimmer there), the breeds were chosen specifically for how they tended to be wrt children. A dog is a lifelong commitment. I have two remaining at the moment (just had my best girl put down due to terminal cancer a couple of weeks ago), and it is reasonable to expect that they will be gone by the time my two have little ones of their own. Any dog I get from here on out? Will be a breed that has a tendency to being good with kids.

OP... honestly, while the dog needs behavior modification, so do you and the child. You have created a completely unfair living situation for the dog. Unless you are willing and able to realize that and correct it, the dog would be best off rehomed.


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## babeak (Jan 10, 2008)

Dear Lactating Girl,

Our dog that bit our DD at 13 months that I have now posted about twice was a *20lb dog*. Like I said the surface area of our daughters face that was covered was her entire right cheek right by her eye. The doctor was convinced that it was a larger dog.

I know that it is hard to believe that they could do that much damage. Like I said our dog had what was called an inhibited bite, more like oops, you are in my space....kind of like a nip that went to far. It left her scarred. It was not an attack. I wish for one moment that you could enter my experience and see the horror I saw in that flash of a moment when it happened. It was truly one of the worst days of my life.

We count ourselves lucky. Until we could get DDog re-homed it was horrible emotionally. Like I said, DDog went EVERYWHERE with us and everyone said what a great dog he was.

This age is just really difficult for dogs. I think that the one thing that no one else has said is to think about from the dog's perspective as well. I don't think that it is good for the dog to be ostracized from the family, shut in a garage, or thrown outside. Yet, the dog is not comfortable in his current situation either. He is telling you something. Try not to think of it so much as your needs and desires as to what the dog is trying to tell you. The dog really may be saying....ugh Peanut needs to go....and if Peanut were a cat or another dog, you would probably comply with his desire. However, since you obviously cannot get rid of Peanut, rehoming to make your dog more comfortable and at peace and Peanut safe.

I wish I had taken and known that some seemingly innocent earlier incidents as warning signs, but I NEVER thought he would ever do anything since HE LOVES people AND KIDS. It was just inconsistent in my head. However, he had never been with a toddler for an extended period of time. He would also come up and sleep next to the baby and had no problems with our DD when she was a baby, but DD was changing and that is also hard for a dog. Just as it is hard for you, you get Peanut "figured out" and she goes and changes as she grows.

Anyway, I hope that my own personal trial with our dog that we had for 6 years, and who is in every family photo, means something. I wish I had been as lucky to have had bites without breaking the skin, but even so, I don't want it to take a serious bite to make you realize the seriousness. I know that on some level that you do because you went ahead with the trainer.

This thread has been very hard for me to read and respond to. Nonetheless, if should happen, be sure to immediately soap and rinse the wound thoroughly. They don't do stitches for many wounds for fear of infection setting in. I think that this may be why DD has scars because it was left open.

You are in my thoughts as you go through this unsettling time of trying to make the best decision for all concerned.


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## russsk (Aug 17, 2007)

We just euthanized our dog a week ago because we realized he was a danger to our son. We worked with trainers and bahaviorists for YEARS before my son was born to work through this dog's issues and we rationalized and excused a lot of his behavior. But when he became a threat to my son we had to make a very difficult decision. DS calls for the dog all the time, and I still cry every day. It hurts more than I can say, but I know it was the only choice. Rehoming was not an option for us, but it might be for you. Either way, you can't keep that dog around your baby. If there's even a chance he could hurt your baby, that's just too risky. Far better to find the dog a loving home where he can be safe and happy than have to euthanize a dog who's hurt your child.


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## Down2Earth (Jan 23, 2008)

Some dogs are really great with kids, they just have the right temperament. But if your dog doesn't like your LO, well what can you do? I think you might need to rehome your dog. And then wait until your LO is older before getting another dog, or do some research and find a breed that is very loyal and loves kids.

I had a German shepherd mix from the pound. He was the absolutely sweetest dog EVER! We had to move 2000 miles away so we gave him to my mom. My half brother has medical issues (ventilator, etc) and my dog was so sweet with him. He would usually jump on people but around him he would lay down and move really slowly and put his head on the kid's lap and pretty much acted like he knew my brother was special. Now that was a dog I would want to have around my baby.

ETA: Once a dog bites, doesn't that mean it now thinks it is more dominant in the pack? How do you then teach the dog differently? That is why most people get rid of a dog that nips or bites. Your LO needs to be above your dog in the pecking order of the pack.

I really hope the behaviorist helps out your dog and your family. It would be so heartbreaking to get rid of your family pet.


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## Mama2Jesse (Jan 5, 2009)

Babeak, I am *so* sorry.







We had a near miss with my child and a "friend's" dog and it haunts me still, two months later, though Thank God my DS was spared from physical harm. I can't even imagine your burden. I am just so very sorry.

And russk... it will get better, promise it will. Our own that we euthanized, I think is now free of the demons that made him unsafe around other living things. I like to think he is somewhere, whole of spirit, no longer tormented by the unnatural urges he felt. Maybe that can bring you some comfort IRT your own?


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## nudhistbudhist (Jan 13, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lactatinggirl* 
I have been researching her aggression for a long time and have read 5+ books on dog aggression. She did go to two obedience classes right when we got her. It was only recently that I found someone who can do one-on-one training at my house (as stated above).

She was wearing a sweater for her own benefit. We live in Utah and it recently snowed and she has her hair cut very short. She spends a lot of time in the backyard when we are not home and she needs to stay warm.

It's great that you read the books on aggression Obviously you saw there was a problem... However, the dog and child were still sharing the same space. I guess this is all kind of a predictable turn of events? From owning a rescued pitbull, I can tell you that obedience classes are not going to help a dog with issues... While it may help a little with socialization, most classes are too basic, dealing with sit stay heel. I do think that it sounds like your dog is by no means a lost cause, however your behavior (body language and house rules) was setting your dog up for failure. Its interesting to see how much our body language tells animals. We had trouble with our dogs completely ignoring my husband (even if he was yelling) because his body language was telling them that he was not higher in the pecking order, and if I even looked at my dog sideways, I would receive a submissive sit. A good trainer will help you. The best trainers seem to be the ones who train the owners, not the dogs!!!! I hope the trainer you have in mind to do one-on-one sessions is qualified. Good luck


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## Becken (May 28, 2006)

I'm not even going to touch the argument of whether or not you should be keeping the dog. That is a totally personal decision you have to make after weighing the risks.









That said, should you opt to keep the dog, I cannot recommend enough the Dog Whisperer/Cesar Milan style of dog....training isn't the right word, but anyway.

What it sounds like is that your dog is under the impression that she is higher in the pack than your daughter - hence the "warning bites." Warning bites like that are very much what a mother dog would do to a puppy.

Hopefully the trainer/behaviorist you are hiring will take the "dog pack" approach that Cesar Milan does, and re-establish a correct human-over-canine hierarchy in your home.

We have a Great Dane and a Boxer - about 200+ pounds of dog, total - and have never had an incident (granted, these are some of the most family-friendly breeds out there). But we began from the very start with establishing our LO's status in our "pack" as higher than the dogs. She is 3 now and can walk the Great Dane on a leash with the dog walking submissively beside her (we still hold the tail end of the leash because at 3 she often forgets what she's doing and drops the leash to dash off and investigate something else. lol). We haven't ever had a trainer with our dogs; I used the Dog Whisperer's first book as a text book when working with our dogs.

Best wishes. I don't envy your position!


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## fairejour (Apr 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nudhistbudhist* 
If everyone was telling me to CIO and formula feed, should I do that too??
People are often misinformed!!!!

We are talking about the safety of a young child. I want the momma to look dep inside herself and think about how she will feel if tomorrow the dog bites her baby's face, or worse, throat.

Will it be worth it? Will you honestly think, "Well, I guess I have to get rid of him now."

If anyone or anything hurt my child, it would be the last time they saw each other.


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## moonchiald (Jun 21, 2007)

It is an awful situation to be in. I went through almost the same thing when my LO was 9 months old and just started walking. My 12 year old dog that I had for 10.5 years started snapping at him. It wasn't aggression in her case, but fear.

You can't train fear out of a dog. I kept them separated but that didn't allow much quality of life for the dog. She would sit at the baby gate and whine or the basement door. She ignored the fenced in back yard and the full basement she could wander around in. She wanted to be with us and was miserable that she was shut away.

But, after she snapped at my baby (face height), that was the last straw. I found her a wonderful new home. I was devastated (anxiety attacks and all) for quite a while but having a whole healthy child was way more important. Even a small snap from a small dog could take out a child's eye, take off a finger, or some other permanent disfigurement and I couldn't live with that.


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## Bubblette (Apr 26, 2009)

Dear OP,
I think you're doing the right thing in keeping the dog and baby completely separated and hiring an in home trainer. Please know I think re-homing the dog is also a good option in this situation. It is really good to know you have been trying to get an in-home trainer since things started up and you have been reading about aggression.

Please also remember that opinions from the internet, and indeed, from a some trainers, are just opinions. I hope the books you have read will help you evaluate the trainer you have hired. I truly hope the in home trainer is also a certified behaviorist. It certainly sounds like your problems are behavior rather than training related.

I am not a behaviorist, or a trainer. I am just a very involved dog owner who did a lot of study before bringing my puppy home. My understanding is that current, up to date and scientifically supported behaviorist/training does not support the pack order/alpha theory that is so popular today. This is not a new concept, but it's easier to go with the older coercive and negative training than utilize the more finessed positive behavior modification techniques. This is not to say humans do not need to be a leader! rather that it is more complicated than making sure the dog eats last, using a specific tone of voice, or keeping the dog off the furniture. Alpha rolls in particular have been discredited and can do a lot more harm than good esp. with a fearful dog. There indeed is a degree of mutualism in good dog-human relationships. I am not criticizing any previous posters, as I cannot know from a few posts what actually goes on in their homes. I am just trying to bring to the forefront of your mind that you must evaluate the professional you have hired, and indeed be educated yourself on the subject if you hope to resolve these issues.

I also totally agree with mtiger! your child has been harassing your dog and that needs to stop! it should not be an issue if you keep them separated as you've said you now are. However, IMO children need as much if more more training about pets than the pets do about kids. This will serve your child well when dealing with other dogs and cats as well.

Good luck!


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## JBaxter (May 1, 2005)

the OP's child is 8 MONTHS old an INFANT


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## 3*is*magic (Sep 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JBaxter* 
the OP's child is 8 MONTHS old an INFANT











The BABY is not the problem. The BABY cannot decide if she should be exposed to the dog and is far to young to understand the concept of interacting appropriately with animals.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

8 mo seems to be a common age for dogs to freak out about babies. I rehomed a dog at that age (about 20#, a Lhasa apso) because he was growling at dd just for crawling in his direction. The baby had never been _near_ the dog, because she'd previously been immobile and he chose to stay away from her (good enough). But as soon as she started crawling, he freaked right out. He never got close enough to nip because the growls and body language sent the message loud and clear; we never let her near him. We found a great, child-free home for him where he is loved to this day (8 years later).

OP, I wish you luck. I tell my story to illustrate that rehoming _can_ be win-win, and is often the easiest and best solution for the dog and child (although it is difficult for the adult dog owner who had the dog first







)


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## momtoalexsarah (May 21, 2005)

In this case I would rehome the dog if you can. This is not a breed that deals well with kids, it has bitten BOTH an infant and an adult, has unpredicatable behavior with strangers and lastly locking a dog behind gates is not a garentee that the two will not come in contact, especially since your DD is not walking yet - it's amazing where toddlers can go. If this had been our situation our dog would have been long gone.

Our dog did bite one of my kids - my 3 year old, They where playing fetch outside with a ball, 6 people within arms reach watching. My DD threw the ball in the air above her head and the dog lept up to get it. He snaped at the ball as it was comming down - caught the ball - and the side of DD'd face. 6 stiches and some small scars later my DD is afraid of the dog, and that will take a longer time to heal then the wounds. There was no aggresion at all, it wasn't the dogs fault it was the adults around my DD for not watching that my DD was throwing the ball away from herself.
He is a very highly trained farm/hunting dog, generally very good natured - but I would NEVER EVER allow my kids to be locked in the same room as him, even with adults present. Our dog is and outdoors dog - he never comes in the house, and my kids have been sternly reprimanded for calling him/ luring him into the house. To have him in the house is trapping him all animals need an area to escape a threat, the threat that your dog is facing from your DD may not be obviose. The crys of a child can be painfull on a dogs ear, as can squeeling. I can't allow our middle DD anywhere near the barn when I am working with the cattle or pigs - the pitch of her voice, and the constant talking bother the animals and make them dangerous to work with.
If your dog is bitting then I would look into the reason behind the biteing, training is not going to help if the dog has a problem with something you are doing (or your DD) and you may not see. The dog is trying to tell you something.


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## nudhistbudhist (Jan 13, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fairejour* 
We are talking about the safety of a young child. I want the momma to look dep inside herself and think about how she will feel if tomorrow the dog bites her baby's face, or worse, throat.

Will it be worth it? Will you honestly think, "Well, I guess I have to get rid of him now."

If anyone or anything hurt my child, it would be the last time they saw each other.

That could be said about anything. Anything bad could happen. Everytime you get in a car, you are putting your child at risk. If you sat and thought about how horrible it would be if someone crossed the centerline and crashed into you when you had you're child with you, you would probably never get in the car again. And even if someone almost hits you, (which, everytime we're in the city, seems to be the case) most people would still drive. You do get in the car, knowing full well everytime that something could happen. In order to do that, you take every measure possible to keep your child safe while in the car. Driving is a risk. So is owning an animal that has teeth. People make better decisions when they are armed with knowledge and not making decisions out of fear. The OP already said she is keeping the dog and child separated now. Ideally, they would have been separated as soon as the child was born. But they weren't, which is why we're talking about it.

I think its terrible that we still see ourselves as somehow separate and more valuable that other unique and beautiful life forms such as dogs. It is that attitude that has gotten us to where we are today







Living in a time where the natural world is only here to provide human gratification. This dog is a microscopic example of today's culture of getting rid of something as soon as it breaks, even though we are usually the ones who broke it. What we do in our daily lives influences the entire planet. Hopefully we can ALL strive to have the same compassion towards our animal kin that we have towards our own children's lives.


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## Mama2Jesse (Jan 5, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nudhistbudhist* 
That could be said about anything. Anything bad could happen. Everytime you get in a car, you are putting your child at risk. If you sat and thought about how horrible it would be if someone crossed the centerline and crashed into you when you had you're child with you, you would probably never get in the car again. And even if someone almost hits you, (which, everytime we're in the city, seems to be the case) most people would still drive. You do get in the car, knowing full well everytime that something could happen. In order to do that, you take every measure possible to keep your child safe while in the car. Driving is a risk. So is owning an animal that has teeth. People make better decisions when they are armed with knowledge and not making decisions out of fear. The OP already said she is keeping the dog and child separated now. Ideally, they would have been separated as soon as the child was born. But they weren't, which is why we're talking about it.

I think its terrible that we still see ourselves as somehow separate and more valuable that other unique and beautiful life forms such as dogs. It is that attitude that has gotten us to where we are today







Living in a time where the natural world is only here to provide human gratification. This dog is a microscopic example of today's culture of getting rid of something as soon as it breaks, even though we are usually the ones who broke it. What we do in our daily lives influences the entire planet. Hopefully we can ALL strive to have the same compassion towards our animal kin that we have towards our own children's lives.


Mmm. I think a mechanical device, with no emotions, no aggression, cannot be compared to a living thing.

Human life > animal. Infant > dog. So yes, I garden organically, I try to raise my own meat or DH hunts it. I nurse, I use nontoxic natural cleaners.

Still not gonna tolerate anything, let slone the family pet, harming my child.


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## Roxswood (Jun 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nudhistbudhist* 
I think its terrible that we still see ourselves as somehow separate and more valuable that other unique and beautiful life forms such as dogs. It is that attitude that has gotten us to where we are today







Living in a time where the natural world is only here to provide human gratification. This dog is a microscopic example of today's culture of getting rid of something as soon as it breaks, even though we are usually the ones who broke it. What we do in our daily lives influences the entire planet. Hopefully we can ALL strive to have the same compassion towards our animal kin that we have towards our own children's lives.

Finding a new loving childless home for a dog is not the same as throwing it away or euthanising. I think its the most compassionate thing she could do for both the dog and child personally.


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## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:

I think its terrible that we still see ourselves as somehow separate and more valuable that other unique and beautiful life forms such as dogs.
Here's how I look at pet ownership: we're not "more valuable." But we've evolved some specialized abilities such as reason, spoken language, and an ethical system. Because of those we have a RESPONSIBILITY to take care of animals, including making some hard decisions.

Does it seem like the dog is having a nice life, being so afraid and defensive/aggressive that it lashes out at a baby? The best thing for the dog AND the baby would be for the dog to live elsewhere.


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## nudhistbudhist (Jan 13, 2009)

I guess I just feel like my dogs are more a part of my family than other people, which is fine with me. Iw ould not give away my dog just as I would not give away my child if my child was aggressive. I would find a safe solution that worked for everyone involved. However I also have the space for my (non-agggressive) dogs to live in a seperate area without them being "caged" or kenneled. Also my husband works from home so he is always out on the farm with the dogs, so they aren't lonely... As I said in a previous post, its true that not everyone has the time, space, money or energy to deal with a "problem" dog, though it doesn't seem to me like the dog is the problem, just the situations the dog is being put in. Animals are not irrational. There is a cause and effect. I just wish people would not give up so quickly...


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3*is*magic* 









The BABY is not the problem. The BABY cannot decide if she should be exposed to the dog and is far to young to understand the concept of interacting appropriately with animals.


The BABY is harrassing the dog:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lactatinggirl* 
I don't think she's jealous, though she might be territorial. She never snaps at people outside of our house. _*Mostly when Peanut goes near her, she just walks away. Peanut likes to follow her though. Sometimes she growls and we correct her. The times that she has snapped at her have been once when Peanut cornered her, once when they were both on the bed and Peanut got too close to her (she was awake, just for some reason she didn't go away that time)*_, and once when my husband had food he was giving to Peanut and the dog thought she should have it (she didn't actually get her that time). The times that she has bitten her, she hasn't actually broken skin. Though she has recently bitten me and broken my skin (I was trying to take off her sweater).

WHY is the BABY allowed to be in a position to corner the dog? WHY, when OP knows the dog is uncomfortable with the child, are they allowed to be on the bed together? WHY, when OP and husband KNOW the dog has already nipped the child, is food being offered to the child, apparently at the same level as the dog?

I'm sorry, but this is irresponsible pet ownership. The dog has been trying to escape a situation in which she is uncomfortable, only to be followed and cornered. When she tries to warn the child that she is uncomfortable, she is reprimanded. The food thing boggles my mind. Sorry.

I can tell you that, when mine were that age, they were NEVER permitted to be with the dog w/o an adult having physical contact with both the dog and the child. I spent a lot of time on the floor w/baby on my lap and the dog on a leash, in a down, showing baby how we only touch dog gently and while telling her what a good dog she was. And ya know, when dog had had enough and was ready to go to her "safe" place - it was made clear to baby that dog is to be left alone there. Never was there an opportunity for baby to "corner" the dog. If baby wanted to crawl around in the dog's presence? She could - but I was again there on the floor, dog next to me, with one hand through her collar, the other petting her and my telling her what a good girl she was.

Yes, I trained my child how to act around an animal. Because that was only fair to the dog(s) that I chose to take responsibility for. THEY already knew how to avoid a problem with the child.

In all seriousness, the only one acting appropriately (or trying to, anyway) is the dog. It's the humans that need training, IMO.


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## MadiMamacita (Jan 29, 2006)




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## Tizzy (Mar 16, 2007)

We've dealt with this same issue with 3 different dogs now.
Dog 1 - other aggression (and mental) issues that we were working through at the time. She was *okay* around DS when he was born, was comfortable having him around until he started to get mobile. She was fine with him just sitting there on the floor, but once he started to move anywhere she got VERY antsy.
She was never allowed to be in a position to growl, snap or *bite* the baby. But we saw where it was headed and it was NOT going to be pleasant for any of us. She was definitely not an outdoor dog, and any indoor dog is exposed to humans. There is no possible way to enjoy having a dog if they are not integrated into your "pack". They are pack animals, they need to socialize. To separate them from the family is bordering on emotional abuse for them. She was PTS.

Dog 2 - sweet older yellow lab. Very laid back and easy going, GREAT with kids. But not babies. He didn't have a mean bone in his body, but he was not comfortable around babies whatsoever. When DS started to crawl, he'd be attracted to the dog and would crawl over only to have the dog jump up and walk away. The dog consistently REMOVED HIMSELF FROM THE SITUATION instead of confronting the baby. Obviously it's best if the dog isn't uncomfortable in the first place, but a reaction like this is very good. The dog is not taking control of the situation, is not asserting himself and is being careful not to harm the baby even though he is clearly uncomfortable. Obviously we kept them separate as much as possible to avoid him having to worry about this strange little creature crawling around. Once DS learned to walk, the dog was more than happy to spend time with the child. It was just the crawling phase that bothered him.

Our third dog is a *Springer* Spaniel (bolding because they are a much different breed than a Cocker Spaniel). He is full of energy but has never shown any signs whatsoever of being uncomfortable around babies, toddlers or children. I feel that he is very trustworthy, BUT he is still a dog. He is not allowed on furniture and certainly not beds. He is not allowed in the kids room and only in our room upon invitation. He is also never left alone with the kids. We work hard to make sure the kids know what is appropriate play and what is NOT because he doesn't mind when they get rough...but the next dog they meet just might.

I don't think it's fair to subject him to any situations that make him uncomfortable in a way that would make him consider growling, snapping or biting.
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this and choose between a companion and your child, but this dog needs to be removed from your house IMO.


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## lactatinggirl (Nov 22, 2009)

First off, I don't think everyone understood what I was saying when I mentioned that my dog is small. Yes, I know a 20 lb dog can do major damage. I'm not justifying this problem by saying my dog is little. I'm trying to say that if my dog were bigger, then she could do much more damage. That is all.

We don't allow my daughter to chase the dog around the house. The whole level we live on is open (no doors besides bedroom and bathroom and no way to put gates up) so if the dog is inside and the baby is crawling around, she'll go in the direction of the dog. As soon as we see her go in that direction, we go and pick her up and distract her with something else. Now we don't allow the dog to be inside at all when my daughter is crawling around. The dog is also not allowed on the bed anymore.

As for teaching my daughter to not be interested in a dog I would love any suggestions. For that matter, if you could tell me how to keep my 8 month old to not be interested in remote controls, cupboards, everything shiny, her own dirty diaper when I'm trying to get the clean diaper on her, etc. that would be great.

We realize that re-homing has to be an option, but I don't think that it would work out very well. We don't have anyone that we know that can take her and she doesn't like strangers. We're doing the in-home training and keeping them separate until we can hopefully remedy the situation (yes, I realize it will probably never be entirely fixed, but we can hopefully get rid of immediate danger).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
WHY is the BABY allowed to be in a position to corner the dog? WHY, when OP knows the dog is uncomfortable with the child, are they allowed to be on the bed together? WHY, when OP and husband KNOW the dog has already nipped the child, is food being offered to the child, apparently at the same level as the dog?

They were on the bed together because the dog hadn't shown aggression towards the baby yet. That was the first time she had ever snapped at her. She wasn't really mobile yet and she started being aggressive when the baby started being able to crawl.

As for the food thing that baffles you, we were giving her food while she was standing up against the couch and the dog was no where near us and came over because of the food and pretty much immediately snapped at my daughter. We haven't done anything like that since.


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

Why are you punishing the baby rather than training the dog?

Now the dog is going to learn that being aggressive towards the baby makes you keep the baby away from her.

Right now, your dog is MUCH more trainable than the baby. The baby is just a baby. You said the dog is 2yos.


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## lactatinggirl (Nov 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JL83* 
Why are you punishing the baby rather than training the dog?

Now the dog is going to learn that being aggressive towards the baby makes you keep the baby away from her.

Right now, your dog is MUCH more trainable than the baby. The baby is just a baby. You said the dog is 2yos.

How are we not training the dog when we have an appointment with a trainer to come to our house in two weeks?


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lactatinggirl* 
How are we not training the dog when we have an appointment with a trainer to come to our house in two weeks?

You say that when your DD crawls towards the baby you pick her up and try to distract her with something else. That's reinforcing to the dog that the dog is higher in the pack order than your DD. IME, you should discipline the dog each time it behaves inappropriately towards your DD. If the dog growls, it should be put in it's crate/bathroom/some other place.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lactatinggirl* 
First off, I don't think everyone understood what I was saying when I mentioned that my dog is small. Yes, I know a 20 lb dog can do major damage. I'm not justifying this problem by saying my dog is little. I'm trying to say that if my dog were bigger, then she could do much more damage. That is all.

This attitude drives me nuts. All of the dogs who have snapped at me have been relatively small dogs, and I know at least some of them were the result of bad breeders who figured that snapping wasn't an issue with small dogs because of their size. If small dogs were held to the same standards as large dogs there would probably be fewer kids with scars on their faces and some of your dog's issues might have been bred out several generations ago.


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## eggsandpancakes (Oct 16, 2007)

OP, you allowed the dog on the bed AT ALL, EVER. A breed KNOWN to be aggressive.
You have a dog that cannot be trusted in the house when you are gone.
When your dog decided to tell your kid that any food handed out by the adults was hers, you didn't immediately knock the crap out of it and send it to it's crate. Heck, you have a dog that doesn't go lay on it's bed when humans have food, but instead comes up to you to get it's portion.
I really hope, for your child's sake, that the trainer coming to the house is actually a behaviorist, and can show you when your dog is being aggressive and domineering, because YOU don't recognize it. And that's why your child is in danger, because you don't have the experience to recognize the behaviors you engage in that foster biting.


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## blueridgewoman (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

I'm trying to say that if my dog were bigger, then she could do much more damage. That is all.
Um, more damage than death? Because a 20lb dog can absolutely cause the death of a small infant.

Bottom line is that you simply cannot watch a child and a dog all the time. And sure, you can separate them, but are you really going to tell me that you can guarantee 100% that there's never going to be a time when someone accidentally leaves a gate open or something? What about when that baby learns to climb? My 25mo can scale pretty much all barriers in this house in about the time it takes me to pee.

The only way to ensure that your child isn't hurt or killed by a dog who is obviously prone to aggression AND has already learned that there are no consequences (or minimal ones) for biting your child is to rehome the dog to a family without kids with full disclosure. Or putting the dog to sleep, but apparently that isn't an option you want to consider.

FTR, I have a 105lb German Shepherd and a 2 year old. I supervise heavily, and my dd knows to leave the dog alone. I don't trust her completely, but there's never been a hint of aggression from her to my daughter. If there was, she'd be put down the next day, and I'm not joking. She has several issues which make rehoming nearly impossible and she's ten years old. I love her very much, but I swear to you, she'd be gone the next day. I take my child's safety VERY seriously and honestly, if there's a risk I can control, I'm going to control it.


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choosewisdom* 
I work in pediatric ICU. I recently cared for a child that was attacked by a beloved family pet. The dog had given the child a "warning bite" once before and not "broken the skin". The family hired a behavioral specialist to work with the dog, and had kept the two separated, but one day a slip of a visiting neighbor and the gate was left ajar. The dog did so much damage that the little one will never again close her left eye, post two plastic surgeries.

She had multiple blood transfusions in order to save her life, and after required some infusions of clotting factors. She stayed with us for over three weeks, and is now still in the hospital but on another floor. They had pictures of her on the wall, and I would never have thought it was the same child.

These people loved this dog, and they wanted so much to keep the dog, but now the dog is going to be put to sleep. Both situations could have been avoided if the family had chosen to let the dog go into foster care with a family that did not have any small children.

Please, do not allow this situation to happen to your child. ONE BITE is TOO MANY!!! Even if it didn't "break the skin".

PS the dog that hospitalized the baby was only a twenty pound dog!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously.

Do other primates bring canines into their family units, fostering them, feeding them, even when they "nip" the baby primates and threaten them? Do the mother primates "try to avoid" getting rid of the pups, even when their offspring is in danger, because of their warm soft fuzzy feelings?

Protecting our own is biological, sociological & evolutionarily the primary directive. I have a hard time understanding keeping any animal that I perceived as even a minor threat to my child.


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## Mama2Jesse (Jan 5, 2009)

Look, I don't want to set you on the defensive, but I have got to agree again with the pleas to rehome the dog.

I just can't get this one out of my head.


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## blueridgewoman (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeminijad* 
Seriously.

Do other primates bring canines into their family units, fostering them, feeding them, even when they "nip" the baby primates and threaten them? Do the mother primates "try to avoid" getting rid of the pups, even when their offspring is in danger, because of their warm soft fuzzy feelings?

Protecting our own is biological, sociological & evolutionarily the primary directive. I have a hard time understanding keeping any animal that I perceived as even a minor threat to my child.

That. Totally, utterly, absolutely freaking that.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I've read the thread but your original post really says it all (although I have to admit the information that your dog has BIT your baby and you and is still in your home is a bit disturbing).

You posted it in family safety...listen to your intuition here, 'cause you didn't post it in pets. You said your dog would be difficult to rehome because she hates strangers. Your baby is a stranger to your dog. You used the word hate; again I think your intuition is telling you something.

You know, we do make commitments in life and promises and vows that we end up having to break. I married my husband for life, but if he were hurting our son or abusing me our marriage would be over. In this case I personally would not have given the dog as many chances as you have, and I'm not sure I would rely on a trainer to overcome this already-established pretty bad pattern. The trainer will have a reputation at stake to 'save' your dog and I'm not sure how you will be able to be sure your dog is safe at this point.

It is really, really hard that you're in this position but I really urge you to be willing to see past the way you thought or hoped things would be and take a good look at not only how they are now, but how you can possibly maintain a permanently safe environment for not just your child, but your child's friends who will one day be visiting, and so on. It is very, very hard to keep a dog confined/separated unless you have the property for it.


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## MidwifeErika (Jun 30, 2005)

We went through this a few years ago and it was horrible. We had owned our pug (yes, a little, sweet, funny pug) for 6 years and she was not aggressive AT ALL. There had been 1 instance where a child had gotten bit by her, but we hadn't seen it happen and from the description that was given to us, it totally sounded like a mishap, we thought maybe her eyes were getting bad and she thought she was getting food and instead got a child. We still trusted her and adored her and never saw any signs of aggression. However, one day she wanted a pizza crust that my middle child had (he was 2 at the time) and she bit his ear really hard. 7 stitches in his ear. the 2 year old was sitting ON MY FEET when this happened. There was no growl, there was no warning, it just happened.

My husband took him to the ER because I was falling apart over it. He had to hold Owen's head down while they stitched it. They assumed it was a huge dog and were surprised to hear it was a pug. The police had to come over and look at the dog. We had to quarantine her. We were told if it happened again, she would have to be put down.

We were really conflicted on keeping her. I even posted on the pet forum here to ask about it, trying to figure it out. Actually, then while reading the responses, she nipped my son again on the arm... didn't break the skin, but it was again without warning and for no reason. It became so clear that we HAD to rehome her. 7 stitches came from one bite.... what if it would have been my baby's nose or eye or lips or neck? It all happened so quickly that we had no idea it was coming... no clue. We cried for weeks after rehoming her, but felt it was a good, safe move. She went to a family without kids who fully understand that she should not be around children. She is safe and happy and not at risk of being put down and my kids are safe.

It still sucked though!


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## NizhoniTwice (Sep 13, 2008)

I'm sorry OP for what I'm going to share with you since it's not going to be nice. But it's reality.







When I was dating my husband, he had 2 dogs. The dogs ran his household. They slept in bed with him, they owned the furniture, and ruled him quite well. I've had dogs my whole life and used to show dogs and knew how to train them. His dogs would have none of it. They had been alpha over people their entire lives. 1 of them bit me 3 times without warning. One time when we were still dating, didn't break my skin. Twice while I was pregnant, broke my skin both times. Husband always had an excuse for his "baby"...... he always blamed me and the dog was innocent. I was very uneasy to have this dog live with us after our baby was born. We spent over $600 with a 1 on 1 trainer.....but my husband could not assert himself, he couldn't even use a stern voice with his dogs, he can't correct them....he feels mean. Anyway, the dog always showed aggressive and dominance behavior towards people and other dogs....her tail and back hair would rise up and she barked and lunged trying to attack. My husband wasn't even able to take her out for a walk because she would drag him everywhere. I was able to walk her but hated doing it. I ended up spending more $$$ posting ads in the papers and also on craigslist, contacting rescue groups, etc. Finally, a sweet kind soul stepped forward and offered to foster the dog. After less than a week, the dog snapped at her grandchild's face repeatedly (this child was about 6 yrs old and grew up with pitbulls, he knew how to approach dogs). This lady brought in a different trainer for the dog and the trainer told her that unless the dog was kenneled while her grandchild was over, he would not guarantee the dog wouldn't bite the child. The dog got returned to us and as much as I hated doing it, I had to take the dog to the humane society. She was too dangerous and after months of trying to find her a home......no one would take her. I now volunteer at the humane society. I still feel terrible about taking her in, and my husband will never forgive me, but I am not permanently injured and neither is my daughter.


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## Bubblette (Apr 26, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
The BABY is harrassing the dog:

WHY is the BABY allowed to be in a position to corner the dog? WHY, when OP knows the dog is uncomfortable with the child, are they allowed to be on the bed together? WHY, when OP and husband KNOW the dog has already nipped the child, is food being offered to the child, apparently at the same level as the dog?

I'm sorry, but this is irresponsible pet ownership. The dog has been trying to escape a situation in which she is uncomfortable, only to be followed and cornered. When she tries to warn the child that she is uncomfortable, she is reprimanded. The food thing boggles my mind. Sorry.

I can tell you that, when mine were that age, they were NEVER permitted to be with the dog w/o an adult having physical contact with both the dog and the child. I spent a lot of time on the floor w/baby on my lap and the dog on a leash, in a down, showing baby how we only touch dog gently and while telling her what a good dog she was. And ya know, when dog had had enough and was ready to go to her "safe" place - it was made clear to baby that dog is to be left alone there. Never was there an opportunity for baby to "corner" the dog. If baby wanted to crawl around in the dog's presence? She could - but I was again there on the floor, dog next to me, with one hand through her collar, the other petting her and my telling her what a good girl she was.

Yes, I trained my child how to act around an animal. Because that was only fair to the dog(s) that I chose to take responsibility for. THEY already knew how to avoid a problem with the child.

In all seriousness, the only one acting appropriately (or trying to, anyway) is the dog. It's the humans that need training, IMO.


















I just had to support mtiger's post.

To the OP: not being able to use gates is rough. Really, in that case I'd seriously consider rehoming. If I couldn't give my dog someplace safe in the house and be absolutely certain they were separated when I went to pee (well as certain as one can be by double checking my doors and gates) I wouldn't feel comfortable. I hope the trainer is a good help to you and that you can find a peaceful resolution to all of this.


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## Down2Earth (Jan 23, 2008)

Whoa! This thread is huge!

I doubt the OP will continue to read this for much longer because she doesn't plan on getting rid of the dog, and that is the consensus here. I can only hope that nothing happens to her child.

I would love to hear an update once the behaviorist works with the dog. But I doubt it will do much good.


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## 3*is*magic (Sep 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
The BABY is harrassing the dog:

WHY is the BABY allowed to be in a position to corner the dog? WHY, when OP knows the dog is uncomfortable with the child, are they allowed to be on the bed together? WHY, when OP and husband KNOW the dog has already nipped the child, is food being offered to the child, apparently at the same level as the dog?

I'm sorry, but this is irresponsible pet ownership. The dog has been trying to escape a situation in which she is uncomfortable, only to be followed and cornered. When she tries to warn the child that she is uncomfortable, she is reprimanded. The food thing boggles my mind. Sorry.

I can tell you that, when mine were that age, they were NEVER permitted to be with the dog w/o an adult having physical contact with both the dog and the child. I spent a lot of time on the floor w/baby on my lap and the dog on a leash, in a down, showing baby how we only touch dog gently and while telling her what a good dog she was. And ya know, when dog had had enough and was ready to go to her "safe" place - it was made clear to baby that dog is to be left alone there. Never was there an opportunity for baby to "corner" the dog. If baby wanted to crawl around in the dog's presence? She could - but I was again there on the floor, dog next to me, with one hand through her collar, the other petting her and my telling her what a good girl she was.

Yes, I trained my child how to act around an animal. Because that was only fair to the dog(s) that I chose to take responsibility for. THEY already knew how to avoid a problem with the child.

In all seriousness, the only one acting appropriately (or trying to, anyway) is the dog. It's the humans that need training, IMO.

I agree completely - my post, which is what this was in response to, was not meant to hold the dog responsible, but the dog's OWNER. The BABY is not the problem because she's a _*BABY*_ and obviously not old enough to understand the appropriate way to interact with a dog. It's up to the child's parent to create a safe environment for both the animal and the child. Sorry that wasn't clearer.


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## JBaxter (May 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Down2Earth* 
Whoa! This thread is huge!

I doubt the OP will continue to read this for much longer because she doesn't plan on getting rid of the dog, and that is the consensus here. I can only hope that nothing happens to her child.

I would love to hear an update once the behaviorist works with the dog. But I doubt it will do much good.

I was thinking the same thing. I actually discussed this thread with a friend who runs a rescue and has fostered many dogs. She said in her dealings Cockers can be nasty and would never place one with a small child in the home. She also said the dog must be kept away from the baby if not rehomed. Sounds like THATS not happening if there is not a gated area for just the dog. I hope the behaviorist has luck and the baby doesnt get seriously injured before the dog gets retrained.


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## Tjej (Jan 22, 2009)

One site that might give you some ideas to work with is "nothing in life is free".

With our dogs, our one dog growled at our child when she was a crawler once (well, twice, because once early on too when MIL was babysitting and MIL doesn't know a thing about dogs and we should have had the dog crated). We took very strong measures to correct any misunderstanding on our dog's part, and 3 years later all is well and we haven't had any issues since. For us it was that our dog didn't know our DD was a person, and she was treating her like a dog. We taught her that our DD is a person and that really cleared it up. Our dog just hadn't been around crawling kids and didn't know/get it. I should say too that we still are mindful of things with our dogs and kids.

HOWEVER, your dog has bitten YOU AND YOUR CHILD. This is so much more than a warning growl, IMO. I really think it would be best for you to look for a new home for your dog. I've also heard that Cockers can have a real "dr. jekyl/mr. hyde" type personality, and that is SOOO not something you want to be dealing with alongside a baby.

A few things that can help: hold your child over the dog's head. Always let the child out of doors first (along with yourself). Dog always follows, you always lead. Dog sits for food and child puts it out (but then you take the child out of the room so they are not there during eating).

But again, I really advise you to rehome your dog. I know, terrible terrible thing to hear. Extremely difficult to do. But really, a small dog will have a good life with some childless family. Cockers are well-desired and it doesn't have to be put down.

Tjej


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## Tizzy (Mar 16, 2007)

Another point to consider is that even if the dog is crated (which by the sounds of it, it's not) it is still a danger to a child. Children just LOVE to stick their fingers into a crate. So technically in the OP's current living situation, she has to take her child EVERYWHERE with her, including the bathroom etc. because of the dog - not because of the child. How long do you think you can keep that up? How long is this situation going to last? How long until you or your child is seriously injured? And how are you planning to explain it to the Dr. at the ER?


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Also, keep in mind that, while the dog is already freaking out with the baby's limited crawling mobility, a _walking_ baby is _much_ more difficult to keep away from the dog. The ages from 10-15 months, my dog and ds made me crazy, because the dog always wanted to be near me (would cry if crated or behind a closed door), and the baby always wanted to grab the dog







. Luckily, my dog is patient, but it was trying even under those circumstances! Just saying that, from the standpoint of the baby's development, this will likely get worse before it gets better.


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## tcooper (Sep 26, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nudhistbudhist* 
That could be said about anything. Anything bad could happen. *Everytime you get in a car, you are putting your child at risk. If you sat and thought about how horrible it would be if someone crossed the centerline and crashed into you when you had you're child with you, you would probably never get in the car again.* And even if someone almost hits you, (which, everytime we're in the city, seems to be the case) most people would still drive. You do get in the car, knowing full well everytime that something could happen. In order to do that, you take every measure possible to keep your child safe while in the car. Driving is a risk. So is owning an animal that has teeth. People make better decisions when they are armed with knowledge and not making decisions out of fear. The OP already said she is keeping the dog and child separated now. Ideally, they would have been separated as soon as the child was born. But they weren't, which is why we're talking about it.

I think its terrible that we still see ourselves as somehow separate and more valuable that other unique and beautiful life forms such as dogs. It is that attitude that has gotten us to where we are today







Living in a time where the natural world is only here to provide human gratification. This dog is a microscopic example of today's culture of getting rid of something as soon as it breaks, even though we are usually the ones who broke it. What we do in our daily lives influences the entire planet. Hopefully we can ALL strive to have the same compassion towards our animal kin that we have towards our own children's lives.

Seriously? Are you being serious? I am a vet tech. Animals are my life. I have worked with rescues and emergency clinics for years, saving the lives of animals. Having an animal is a responsibility. So it having a child. As a parent, it is our responsibility to care for and keep our children safe. If our pet is biting our child, it is our duty to get rid of that animal. No, we wouldn't get rid of our children if they were biting other children. However, there is a HUGE difference. You, as the owner of Pits, should understand this. A dog is much harder to break (if even possible) than a child. Pets are in no way disposable. But, the safety and LIVES of our children are way, way more important that the life of an animal. If your child and dog were both hit by cars and you could only save one, who would you choose? Your child. Because her life is more valuable - YES! SHE IS A CHILD! We carried these children in our wombs and gave life to them. I don't know how anyone can sit there and defend that the life of a dog is equal to that! It just isn't. Period.

Not everyone is able to keep their pets separate from their children like you suggest. You keep saying the lives are equal, yet you keep your dogs outside or in the basement? This doesn't seem very equal to me. Family pets are that - family. They are meant to be part of the family - out among the pack. Not separated because the bite. Unless they are guard animals. Our dog is very much apart of our family. He lives his life fully with us. He had never growled, snipped or given the hairy eyeball to our son. Not that he wouldn't, because I do agree with you on that topic - they are dogs and are unpredictable. However, I am a professional in the animal world and have high confidence in our dog. He and my son are brothers. They wrestle and play daily. They eat together and snuggle together. If that dog were to bite my son - he would be gone. That day. Maybe not euthanized, because he is a great dog. However, he would be placed with another family without children. I love my dog. But, the love I have for my son is unmatched by anything or anyone. I do respect dogs. Perhaps some of us need to respect our children.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

As someone who has been rather active in the Pets forum here on Mothering I hope that the OP has checked out that area and gotten some information from some of the active posters there.

I can tell the OP really loves her dog and is going to try everything else first before rehoming/euthanizing as a last resort. Unfortunately, for most people rehoming isn't even an option because of liability issues as well (and most reasonable people will not consider adopting a dog with a known history of biting0--both for liability and safety reasons).


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## Super_mommy (Nov 13, 2009)

Keep the dog away from Peanut at least till she befriends the dog.


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

We have three dogs, and three kids, and I've shown, taught obedience classes, etc and so on with really tricky breeds. I totally understand not wanting to consider options other than making this all better the way it is.

However, you have a dog who has already displayed aggression, and thinks it is something other than at the bottom of the food chain- so to speak. Dogs are pack animals, they need the hierarchy and structure to feel secure. Your dog clearly didn't have this from the get-go, and it's going to be hard (maybe impossible) to fix this now that the damage has been done. Also, as the dog has already bitten, you can never trust it any stress could illicit a similar response.

If you are unwilling to rehome this animal, you will need to invest in gates, a crate, and potentially, a muzzle.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy* 
As someone who has been rather active in the Pets forum here on Mothering I hope that the OP has checked out that area and gotten some information from some of the active posters there.

I can tell the OP really loves her dog and is going to try everything else first before rehoming/euthanizing as a last resort. Unfortunately, for most people rehoming isn't even an option because of liability issues as well (and most reasonable people will not consider adopting a dog with a known history of biting0--both for liability and safety reasons).

A good rescue group (and I have to assume there are some for cockers) will work hard to rehome this dog. He would have to be extremely aggressive for them to not be able to place him. In which case he should not be around the child.

I maintain my position that this dog should not be in a home with a child. Period.


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## choosewisdom (Apr 29, 2009)

I agree mtiger, but I really think that the mom has abandoned this thread. As a group, humans tend to look for advice that supports what they already feel or think to be correct. I just hope that nothing happens to that baby


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeminijad* 
Seriously.

Do other primates bring canines into their family units, fostering them, feeding them, even when they "nip" the baby primates and threaten them? Do the mother primates "try to avoid" getting rid of the pups, even when their offspring is in danger, because of their warm soft fuzzy feelings?

Protecting our own is biological, sociological & evolutionarily the primary directive. I have a hard time understanding keeping any animal that I perceived as even a minor threat to my child.

Brilliantly put. This is why some of us are incredulous at this situation.


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## muttmom92 (Mar 20, 2005)

I don't know if the OP is still reading this thread but I just wanted to say something. I am a huge dog lover and I understand that your dog is part of your family. When my old dog died, I was heartbroken. We now have another dog that is wonderful with our kids. I do have to say though that I really think think you should consider finding another home for her.

Have you talked to any cocker rescue groups?

I would try to contact Jean Donaldson who wrote The Culture Clash. I don't know if you've read that book but she is an amazing behaviorist who really understands dog aggression. She doesn't chalk things up to dominance and pack theory like a lot of trainers.


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## zacharysmom (Apr 1, 2006)

i dont trust cockers.
gmil had one we baby sat ONE time and it offered to bite me. we still had a couple of days left im sorry to say the dog remained gated in a bathroom with as little interaction as we could.
im a dog person i love traiing dogs and interacting with them. but as i have lerned about dogs there are breeds who i find more trustworthy cockers and chows are not among them.


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## pumpkingirl71 (Jul 12, 2005)

I know this is an old thread, but I had to add something. I have a bunch of things to say, but I can't get them into words, so I will just stick to the facts. I have an adopted daughter who was removed from her birthfamily due to a dog bite. Obviously, as the investigation into her birthfamily continued, there were many issues. But really, one bite from a dog that is known to be aggressive is grounds to lose your child until the investigation is complete. My daughter almost died due to this bite. The dog was far less than twenty pounds, but hit a major veins and nerves. My daughter has severe nerve damage that will affect her for the rest of her life.


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## sk8boarder15 (Jan 12, 2010)

I just found this old thread but have a few things I'd like to address. I work with dogs and have worked with dogs for years in many ways. I have four dogs and am pregnant. I also have a 10 month old nephew who is at my home very often (2-3 times a week). Three of my dogs are rescues (which are often more unpredictiable than those from a good breeder).

I do not think at the first sign of agression a dog should be given away or put down. I think a very reputible behaviourist or trainer should be called IMMEDAITLY (the fact that it took several nips/bites from this dog is not a good sign for the mother). An option that I have not seen discussed is Doggy Boot Camp, many trainers and kennels offer this service and some do a great job with it. It would remove the dog from the situation while hopefully helping the dog to be better behaved when it comes back.

Also, it was metioned in this thread that you can't train fear out of a dog. I disagree. I rescued a dog becuase it was given up due to biting a child.... I learned a lot about that dog and now I trust him around my nehew. That dog had obiviously had some sort of abuse. He was EXTREMLY food agressive attempting to bite my husband. myself and my other dog. But we worked with him a lot (if you want details I can give them seperatly) and now several people can apprach him while he eats and even take the food away. Now I would NEVER let a child aproach his food bowl and I would never leave ANY of my dogs alone with a child. But food agreassion is just one of his issues.... learning about his issues and working with them has made him a million times better than when we got him!

Finding the root of the problem is where you need to start. It is usually either fear or dominance. If it is fear the dog needs to learn that it will always be provided with its basic needs, just eating on a regular basis helped our dog! Fear usualy comes from abuse..... If dominance is the issues they need firm correction (not BEATINGS) to learn that ALL humans are above them (this is the issue I have with my alpha female....) she doesn't see babies as people, so she doesn't see them as above her, she has never snapped at a child or baby, but has growled and has been corrected. She now lets my nephew pet her and she doesn't react at all she just puts up with it. I don't let if go on too long though, I show her that as the Leader I'm looking out for her needs and wont let her get hurt.

If a dog has dominance issues it should NEVER be in your bed! That is a position of power in a home. It is an elvated sleeping area that in the wild would only be for the alpah animals. It also shouldn't be allowed on furniture, and for some, they shouldn't have toys around (that they could get agressive protectiong).

I do not think Euthinaisa is necisary is very many cases, there are 100's of rescue groups around that country that will do whatever they can to help (traditional shelters usually are not much help...)

Also, even though I think MOST dogs can be trained to be safe around children (for some period of time, all dogs need a break!) there are the few that can't and in those cases the safty of child is always number one and all other options should be persused. When my baby is born in september my dogs will slowly be introduced and will probably be sperated A LOT, when the baby is that small. But as time goes on my dogs will be around my child a lot. And yes, ANY DOG CAN BITE, but with well trained dogs it is well worth the small risk. I grew up with a dog, and loved every minute of it! Good dogs and good kids need each other!


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