# What should a mother do when her husband spanks their infant?



## odester

This is my first post. I am at a loss for what to do about this. I noticed something strange when we were in the hospital a day after Camille was born. Late at night she was cluster feeding - awake every hour - I was exhausted, but did what I could to keep her content. One time when she cried she woke my husband, and instead of picking her up to console her he snapped his fingers in her face trying to get her to stop crying. I pushed him away and picked her up and held her. I asked him later what he was trying to do, and he said that he was tired and didn't realize what he was doing, so I let it go.

The first time I saw him spank Camille she was only a month old. She was crying uncontrollably, as infants often do, and instead of trying to figure out how to get her to stop he gave her a firm swat on the bottom as if to say 'hey, snap out of it.' Remarkably she stopped crying for a moment, but then started up again and he swatted her again. I told him to stop spanking her, that that was not an acceptable way to treat an infant. He nodded, and said he would stop. But, he did not stop. I caught him doing it again less than a week later.

Now Camille is 6 months old, and I had not seen my husband spank her in a few months, but yesteday morning I heard her crying loudly in her room, so I ran in to see what was the matter. He was changing her diaper on the changing table and gave her a hard bare bottom smack. I shouted "WHY DID YOU HIT HER?!?" I was scared for my daughter, I don't want her to grow up thinking its okay for people to hit her. Especially the one's she loves. She is too young to be spanked. In fact, no one should be spanked for crying.

I don't understand why he does it. He has never hit me, and never seemed like a violent person. In all other ways he is a great father. He spoke to me later and said that when he spanks Camille he feels bad about it. He does not mean to do it, it is instinctive. He told me that he is trying not to do it, but cannot seem to control it.

Does anyone else relate? What would you do if this were your husband and child?


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## stellimamo

I would remove myself and my child from the household immediately. After getting to a safe place I would find a good divorce lawyer.

Spanking an infant is NEVER ok or excusable, period.

ETA. I would also take pictures of any marks that were left if they would be need for divorce proceedings or a future CPS case.


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## Just My Opinion

I would leave my husband if he hit our child. That is what I would do. I would do whatever it took to prevent unsupervised visits. I am an abuse survivor, and will not tolerate abuse in our home.
No one should be spanked or hit for any reason. Your husband is abusing your child, he needs to stop immediately, and get help -- if not, I would be so gone. While he was getting help, I would not stay in the home.


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## earthmama369

I'm sorry, mama. Even in mainstream parenting circles, that's just not normal. And it's totally not acceptable. What he's doing is extremely inappropriate not just because hitting a child isn't ok, but because she's an INFANT. He clearly has no comprehension of normal child development if he thinks she could possibly learn anything from being hit or react in the way he seems to want her to react.

What would I do? Well, I'm not the quietest person in the world, so take this for what it's worth, but I would throw the biggest hissy fit in the world and let him know that he needs to take parenting classes pronto and if he lays a hand on her again, he's out. No compromise, no negotiation on this one. Big red flags are going up here. And I wouldn't leave him alone with her for a minute, ever, for a very long time. I'd be doing a lot of talking and listening with him to try to figure out why he thought it was ok to hit a newborn, where that behavior's coming from, and why he thought it was ok even after you told him not to. Is this situation correctable or is this a warning sign that you and your child need to get out? I don't know. You're going to have to sleuth that one out.


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## Amylcd

If you do not leave him, you are contributing to her abuse. If you care for your child at all, you will keep her away from this man.


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## notjustmamie

You might also want to check out the gentle discipline forum: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=36


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## demottm

This is not normal. What he is doing is abusing your child. If crying is triggering him then he should not be left with the child at all. Please get out of that situation. Know that you are doing this for the safety of your child. You are the mother and you need to protect your baby. Just because you are not seeing it very often does not mean that it is not happening. It is happening. Please protect your child.


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## verde

My evil grandparents used to spank babies. The abuse never stopped -- it only STARTED when they were babies. If your husband is spanking a baby then he will continue to abuse her.

You have to leave this man.


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## JessicaTX

But if she leaves..who will protect the baby when the father gets visitation rights? I think you should tell him he is never allowed, under any circumstances, to hit your child. Tell him he can call you if he gets the urge, and you'll drop whatever you are doing and be there, and get him into counseling. Normal people do not think hitting a newborn is ok, he needs to come to terms with whatever is making him think he can do that. I would also do everything in my power to not leave him alone with her, but that includes not divorcing him, because at some point he'll get overnights, and judges won't disallow it when a toddler is getting smacked.


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## ShwarmaQueen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amylcd* 
If you do not leave him, you are contributing to her abuse. If you care for your child at all, you will keep her away from this man.









:

I'm so sorry you are even in this situation. Protect your baby. Get away from him.


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## BoringTales

I'm not anti-spanking, but spanking a newborn?? That added to the fact that he is telling you he can't control himself would set off huge alarm bells. If he can't resist spanking an infant, what is to say he'll be able to resist shaking it if he really loses it.

I wouldn't want the baby alone with him until the issue was fully dealt with and resolved and I was 100% sure my child was safe in his care.


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## JessicaS

This is just a friendly reminder to please try and stay calm. The primary need in this thread is to help the OP.









odester, this sounds like an extremely dangerous situation. I cannot imagine a how someone could possibly find it "instinctive" to hit an infant.

Please discuss this with your pediatrician so you can start to leave a paper trail.

We are all very worried, please update us on your intentions.


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## Mama2Bug

:









If my husband ever did such a thing and survived my initial reaction, I'd leave within the hour for a shelter, where I would find the best possible divorce lawyer.

I don't have any experience personally, but I doubt that most family court judges would grant unsupervised visitation to a man who hits newborn babies.


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## Liquesce

If he knows it's wrong and "can't control it," it sounds like he's one of those people who just can not handle a baby crying and who lose it when left with one who does. He really should see a counselor, maybe take some parenting classes and/or anger/stress management classes, and should not be left with your baby at all until he does and shows that he's learned appropriate ways to cope.


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## MittensKittens

The fact that he keeps telling you he will not do it again, and then does do it again, would really concern me. At the very least I would insist he takes counseling. Only you can tell if your DD is in real danger, but I might remove myself from him while he takes counseling. If none of that works, I would leave, period. So sorry, mama







.


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## MusicianDad

It's difficult. Likely he has read/heard somewhere the idea that you have to "start young" with discipline. One PP was somewhat incorrect in stating that even in extreme circles it's not normal. There are people out there who claim to be parenting experts who teach that even very young infants need to be spanked. It's disgusting but it's true.

At this point, I think leaving would probably be the last resort. I am guessing this is your first child, which means that like you you DH is still learning. More importantly right now would be to try and educate your husband about what he is choosing to do and what he can do instead.

Councelling is a good option. If it truely is instinctual for him, then he needs to find a way to help over ride that particular instinct.

If he refuses to find help to overcome this instant reaction, or doesn't change, then I would recommend leaving.


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## michelleklu

I agree leaving would be a last result. He may have grown up with a family that spanks and in the back of his mind in the instant of frustration, he resorts to it. He knows it is wrong and needs to go to anger management or something similar. in the meantime I would not leave him alone with her. If he goes to counseling and it doesn't get better, I would leave.


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## Mrs.Burke

Tell him that what he is doing is child abuse and all the things that could happen if he doesn't stop it.


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## momma_unlimited

Some men have zero tolerance for the sound of an infant crying. Personally I think this is a signal they have their own deep seated issues and would really benefit from therapy. I (briefly) dated a guy who would flip out and actually leave a restaurant if a a baby cried for more than like 30 seconds!! But I know from talking to other friends some men have a really hard time with it- one friend's husband can't handle the crying either, and will refuse to drive anywhere with the baby in the car if it might mean being trapped with a crying kid. That man was never allowed to cry as a child and can't deal with the raw emotion of a crying baby. He has never layed a hand on her kids, but knowing his emotional state she never leaves him alone with a baby.

Your partner obviously cannot handle being left alone with the baby, at all. He is telling you he can't control himself- please don't put him in a position where he has to try and may fail. His reaction is not normal- from Day 2 when he snapped his fingers in her face, to saying he feels bad about it but does it anyway.

I have no idea what your situation is- if you have to work at hours which require him to watch the baby or if you are the baby's main caretaker. This child is depending on you to keep her safe. As a mother, what do you think you need to do to offer your baby this safety?

Your partner is new at parenting and is admitting (even if round-aboutly) he really needs help. It sounds like a lot is required of you right now, and *you* could use some support to help you through it, too? At the very least can you call an abuse hotline in the phone book and get some clarity on what this behaviour truly entails and ask about resources/services in your area?


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## BellaRose0212

I hope the OP is reading. Listen, a lot of these women are saying leave your husband, but likely that won't be your first step. You have to understand though that this is a very dangerous situation, a slippery slope if it continues. My take is that he just doesn't know what to do when she cries and his false logic is telling him that hitting her will make it stop. Talk when you are calm and point out that the hard facts are it just doesn't work. Tell him if he ever gets frustrated or angry with the baby he needs to hand her to you or put her down somewhere safe and walk away, that it isn't her fault and baby's only cry to communicate, not to annoy their parents. Show him what you do that works to calm her down and practice with you in the room while he deals with her. Give him some information via the internet or books on why hitting can be harmful to children and is absolutely meaningless to babies.

I also think that saying he doesn't know why he does it and he doesn't mean to are red flags to pshychological issues. Maybe he was abused as a child and does not know it. That part is a little frightening as maybe someday he might not mean to shake her.

I very much agree with the comments of "momma_unlimited"

Quote:

1 - Get Calm

First, if you feel angry and out of control and you want to spank or slap your child, leave the situation if you can. Calm down and get quiet. In that quiet time you will often find an alternative or solution to the problem. Sometimes parents lose it because they are under a lot of stress. Dinner is boiling over, the kids are fighting, the phone is ringing and your child drops the can of peas and you lose it. If you can't leave the situation, then mentally step back and count to ten.

2 - Take Time for Yourself

Parents are more prone to use spanking when they haven't had any time to themselves and they feel depleted and hurried. So, it is important for parents to take some time for themselves to exercise, read, take a walk or pray.


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## cappuccinosmom

Sounds like a man who I would never leave my child alone with.









My dh is not anti spanking but it would never, never, never occur to him to smack a newborn, or even a 6 month old.







:

Your dh needs some help. Lots of good recommendations in that regard. I would also agree that just leaving him probably won't help, because if he gets visitation, that means your baby will be alone with him/his family and you won't be there to rescue her.







Do start documenting, if you can, in case he does become dangerous. It's hard to say at this point if he's an outright, intractable abuser or if he has problems that can be fixed.


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## tootaloo78

First, as someone else said, never leave your baby alone with this man. I would make it clear that he is *never* to hit my child again, under any circumstances. I would tell him that if he does I will be calling the police and have him removed from my home. And if he hits her again, do it. The excuse that he just can't control himself doesn't fly. If he has such a lack of control that he can't stop himself from striking an infant then he needs some type of help and shouldn't be in her presence. You can't let him keep doing this, I can only imagine what a wreck my little four month old would be if I started slapping him when he cried.


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## My3guys

I am so very sorry you are in this situation.

He does not seem to be able to control his behavior and does not seem to recognize how serious it is. He needs help right this moment. Not next week, next month, "soon"...he needs help today. He is a serious danger to your child. The spanking is bad enough. What if next time he shakes her? Google shaking baby syndrome. It just takes one time, one snap, and the baby can be brain dead.

You need to leave this situation. Not necessarily forever but until you know your daughter is safe. I know that the idea of leaving is scary and might seem like overkill. However, please take strength from the fact that you are doing what is best for your child. Also, take strength from the fact that there are hundreds and thousands of women and men on these boards who will support you.

THe other thing is that you need to leave for your husband. He doesn't realize it, but he is on a very slippery slope. What if he does really significantly hurt her or even worse. He will be in jail for decades or longer. Do you want that for him? You need to remove your daughter from the situation to protect both of them. Your daughter from his abuse and your husband from the consequences of his actions.

Good luck to both you and your daughter.

CTK


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## kblackstone444

You need to stay calm, gather your wits, document everything that's happened, and then leave him. The leaving him will be the hardest part- he may want visitation, and you've got to do everything possible so that if he does, it's not unsupervised. Do not stay. If you stay, and anything happens to your baby, your baby will be taken away from both of you, by CPS, because you were there and didn't remove your baby from the situation. He's losing control and then lying about not doing it again. If you don't intervene NOW, then tomorrow might be too late. Who's to say he's ONLY hitting her? Also, bring her to the pediatriion immediately to have her checked out, and ask for advice. That will hold alot of weight in court if need be, even if there's no physical damage.


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## pigpokey

That is so unacceptable in mainstream circles that I would expect supervised visitation.


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## Marsupialmom

He needs help. I would not be surprised if that was how he was raised. He sees nothing wrong because that was how he was treated. I would give him an ultimatim. He get help or you leave.


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## Sierra

odester, I want to tell you about the tenderness of fathers and newborns because I want you to have a sense of what is normal/usual.

I worked for a number of years in maternal-child health, in the mother-child unit of a hospital. Those early days as a family in the vast majority of cases are about as tender, about as sweet as they get. Men are brought to tears when someone comes to poke and prode their sweet newborn babies...when the babies cry, the daddies want nothing but to rush to pick their children up and comfort them. If ever there was a time when first-time mothers fall in love with the fathers of their children in a whole new sense of the word, it is in these early days of having a newborn together. There is more than a joy, but truly a reverence for this new little life that they have helped create. Reverence inherently precludes the possibility of violence.

*This* is instinct. Instinct generally encompasses those things that help propel a species toward survival.

Of course, there are plenty of us who have trouble with babies crying...who find that for some reason, we have a low tolerance for it. We need to take breaks, to ask for help from our partners, to plan survival strategies for those late nights.

But those tiny little cries early in the morning/late at night when a child has first been born? It is not usual or typical to have an irresistable urge to snap our fingers in our babies faces as soon as the cries start. And it certainly is highly unusual not to be able to control that impulse (notice I say impulse, not instinct).

I say all this because I think it would be easy, especially with the responses regarding leaving your husband, to think "perhaps it sounded worse than it is," or to otherwise need to return to a sense of normal and brush off the real concerns expressed here.

I really understand why some here are cautious about advising you to leave your husband for this alone. Indeed, even with highly abusive parents whose children are in foster care, I know as a foster parent that the plan is never supervised visits *forever.* As the child grows to an age when the parent behavior is less risky (for example, as shaken baby is less of a risk), and/or as the parent demonstrates that during supervised visits he can control himself, visiting restrictions are weakened. Eventually the plan is always for normalcy in this parent-child relationship, which would mean custodial care or at least unsupervised extended time together.

And even though hitting an infant is not even accepted in "mainstream" parenting, as your baby grows in the months to come, a greater and greater percentage of people-- including judges, social workers, etc.-- will see the practice as more and more "normal," even if not ideal.

So I do think leaving, if for this reason alone, is a decision that should be considered with great caution.

That said, I wouldn't leave my child alone with him ever, at all, for even a few minutes. And that is a terrible burden for you to face over the longterm. Hopefully in the meantime you can influence him to seek some therapy and parenting classes. I encourage you to think about what approach you might take in that regard...to what kind of approach might he be most receptive?


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## suziek

Thank you, sierra, for a very helpful post.

I'm worried about OP, and wanted to say that there is support here even if you don't immediately spring to action and leave your DH. Please don't disappear.

I would seek professional help--start perhaps with your pediatrician, or a women's center in your community. There are people who in your community who are devoted to helping families in tough spots or with very difficult and painful issues. The first steps are difficult but certainly much less tough than what you are trying to deal with all on your own.

I would also not leave your baby alone with your dh--even for a few minutes. I think what I would do in your shoes in the short term is go visit a loving relative or friend with your DB while you sort this out. There is no need to alert DH as to why you are doing this.

Please send us word.


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## Dahlea

If my baby was an infant, I would definitely be worried and not leave the baby alone with him.


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## Asher

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stellimamo* 
I would remove myself and my child from the household immediately. After getting to a safe place I would find a good divorce lawyer.

Spanking an infant is NEVER ok or excusable, period.

ETA. I would also take pictures of any marks that were left if they would be need for divorce proceedings or a future CPS case.

I agree completely. I would have done it the first time I saw him do it at a *MONTH OLD*. Holy cow.







I can only hope that he has no idea that spanking means nothing to her right now other than that someone she loves and trusts is hurting her.









He would need some parenting classes, at the very least, before I would consider reconsiling.


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## mommy2abigail

You've gotten some good advice here. Just wanted to let you know that there is support here. Please let us know how it is going, how we can help. This must be so incredibly hard for you. I don't know if you of any particular religious faith, but generally those who advocate for hitting babies are coming from the Christian faith. If you identify with Christianity (of if your dh does and is using that as his reasoning) please visit

gentlechristianmothers.com/
aolff.com/
goybparenting.com/
parentingfreedom.com/

I will be praying for you and your precious baby.







:


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## phoenix78

Oh mamma, I am so sorry you are going through such awfulness. You are likely scared and confused right now. I would be. But you should know that you have the ability in you to protect your child. You wouldn't have posted here if you didn't think about taking action.

I work in the mental health field and would echo the concerns others have shared that if your husband is spanking the baby, he will go onto greater harm. Most serious injuries and fatalities to babies are at the hands of their caregivers who lose control.

It is a heartbreaking decision to have to leave your husband that you love but your child can NOT be left alone with him. If I were you, I would seek a restraining order against him, which would have him removed from the home and from contact with the baby unless a judge decides otherwise. Even getting all that together can take a bit though, so in the meantime, if he won't leave the house, you should with the baby. If you don't have somewhere safe to go, like a relative's, then call a domestic violence shelter. They should be able to help you protect the baby.

I also grew up in an abusive family. My parents were very loving but they passively neglected me by not intervening when their were warning signs (and you have evidence beyond warning signs at this point) my grandfather was abusing me. I have struggled my whole life to deal with this and know as a mother to two beautiful dd's, I do everything in my power to protect them, which includes them not having any unsupervised visits with my father or his family. This has pained me deeply, because my parents love my children very much, but protecting my children is what I must do. I cannot trust them alone with them. You love your baby. Do what you need to do to protect her. Please get help. We are here to support you. Much love. You will be in my prayers today.


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## Jessy1019

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stellimamo* 
I would remove myself and my child from the household immediately. After getting to a safe place I would find a good divorce lawyer.

Spanking an infant is NEVER ok or excusable, period.

Agreed.

If he gets help, and does well with SUPERVISED visits after that, we'd re-evaluate.

I can understand (even though I disagree) why someone would spank a toddler or older child . . . and I wouldn't leave over that unless it was a consistent issue . . . but there is no excuse for hitting a baby!!!


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## MCR

We are not anti spanking in our home, even though it is rare.
Spanking an infant is not normal or acceptable, the baby is way to young and as the mama you are there to protect her.
I believe your Dh should never be alone with the baby especially if she may cry as it seems to trigger something in him.
You may want to start counseling with him if you would like to try and save the relationship and still protect the baby. I have never met anyone who would condone spanking/hitting a tiny baby.
I can only see how starting that so young would lead to the abuse getting worse as she ages. He is setting unrealistic ideas of what he expects of her, she is acting age appropriately and he isn't.


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## One_Girl

I think you should leave immediately and find a safe place for your child. I would also suggest that you insist that he get counseling on anger management. If he has been hitting her since she was a month old he there is a serious problem there that is only going to get worse as she ages.

You seem to be saying that this behavior is really not something that you would expect from him. That seems to indicate something deeper inside of him that is triggering this anger. I really think you need to do something to protect your baby even if you do love him very deeply. I think the most loving thing to do is to leave and insist he get help before going back to him. He deserves a happy relationship with his child that isn't shaped by psychological problems and your infant deserves a safe childhood.


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## nextcommercial

If I were in that same situation, I would sign us both up for parenting classes. Or at the VERY least, get as many books, or magazines as you can find that support your veiw, and work WITH him on this. Don't just hand him books to read, work together on it. If he can't control this, I'd consider asking him to leave. If you aren't ready to go that far, just don't let him do any of the childcare unless you are right there. Babies cry. Eventually she's going to cry because he makes her afraid. He doesn't want her to be afraid of him does he?

I had a daycare dad who would spank his infant daughter.

She WAS very high maintenance... so, at first, mom figured he was just stressed out. But, it escalated.

He called me one day when he had "Agreed to watch her" and asked "What does she want!?!?!?" I asked when she had eaten last? He said "breakfast". Apparently he didn't understand that a three month old doesn't eat at breakfast, lunch, and dinner. SO, he fed her at 6:00 am, and wasn't planning to feed her again until lunch time.

Doorknob!

Anyway.. he spanked her often, and on that day, he put her in a carseat and put her in the master closet, closed that door, closed the bedroom door, and went out in the kitchen to call me.

WHen he brought her back to me, she had little red marks up and down her legs.. he admitted to flicking her on the legs over and over because she wouldn't shut up and let him install a ceiling fan. Then, when he knew he'd lost control he put her in a closet. (actually, that was a good idea)

He never could control his anger towards her. Again.. she was a hard baby. Mom was working out of town WAAAY too much. (two weeks straight every month) He just couldn't do it.. not even for a day. He was never allowed to be alone with her after that closet incident.

He took classes, counseling, anger management, and I think he KNEW that being angry at a three month old was insane, but he just never could stop. He finally left, the house, and hopefully he lives in a childless enviroment somewhere.


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## riverscout

Quote:


Originally Posted by *odester* 
What would you do if this were your husband and child?

I'd show my husband the same compassion and concern that I hope he would show for me if the situation was reversed and assist him in getting the help he needs like therapy and some parenting classes. I would also of course do what I needed to do to protect my child which would involve not leaving her alone with her dad until I felt he was able to deal with her without hitting her.


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## Laurelsprings

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
I'd show my husband the same compassion and concern that I hope he would show for me if the situation was reversed and assist him in getting the help he needs like therapy and some parenting classes. I would also of course do what I needed to do to protect my child which would involve not leaving her alone with her dad until I felt he was able to deal with her without hitting her.

I agree 100%. This dad is clearly not able to control the normal frustrations of parenting a newborn. He needs professional help (of course while mom protects her baby).

I think if the situation were reversed, and this was a Dad posting about his wife spanking their newborn, many more posters would be advocating getting the abusive parent help. IME, PPD/PPP is not just for moms...


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## Selesai

n/m


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## sisteeesmama

Odester~
Please don't leave the forum because of the responses you got here. Everyone is just very concerned about your sweet darling baby.

But of course if you can't leave him or even don't want to that is ok, your choice and no one can judge you for that if you ake proper actions....those being:
~Get both of you into counseling today
~Never EVER leave DD with him, EVER EVER
~Talk to him STERNLY about what is ok and what is not
~Document this and anything else that happens
~Tell someone you trust what has happened

Please stick with us, we are here to help!


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## guestmama9916

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Laurelsprings* 
I think if the situation were reversed, and this was a Dad posting about his wife spanking their newborn, many more posters would be advocating getting the abusive parent help. IME, PPD/PPP is not just for moms...

But if it were PPD, that would be something curable. Being abusive more often that not is *not curable* even with therapy. If there is an underlying condition leading to his abusive behavior such as depression, that's one thing. If he was raised this way or otherwise has a problem controlling his anger, that's a completely different issue to deal with. My xh yelled shut up at our newborn the first night in the hospital when he started crying while I was changing his diaper and also used the excuse that he was half asleep and didn't know what he was doing. I slowly began to realize that my xh was NOT normal and the way he treated our son and myself was not right. With the help of my therapist, I found the strength to leave the situation and have not regretted my decision since. Abusive people rarely change. My xh had 13 years of me pleading and asking and educating him to change. He had therapy and couseling but still he did not change. So I had to be the one to make a change that was best for me and DS. My advice to the OP is to not give her DH 13 years but to give him a much shorter time line and if he doesn't change with therapy, leave.


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## BroodyWoodsgal

Oh my honey pie....first of all, I'm so sorry. It is never anything short of a nightmare, for a mother to think that her family is stepping into a bright new future as a real family with kids....only to see her partner turn into someone she doesn't recognize. I'm so sorry, I know this must be so scary and confusing for you...and I do not envy the road you are headed down...I'm just really really sorry, this is not how it's supposed to work.







This will be hard work, but don't let anyone make you feel like this is not something that can be worked through...maybe, just maybe it IS!

This situation scares me a lot, because, either:

A. He really isn't doing it mindfully and it is his knee-jerk reaction to hit when the baby cries. This is a sad, but also very scary situation...because it would make this man a prime suspect for potential baby shaking. A person who has about two seconds worth of tolerance for crying...is going to move quickly from a swat on the behind to a "SHUUUUT UPPPP!" - and hard shaking in NO time, if left alone with this infant...and my darling...it only takes ONE SINGLE MOMENT, ONE HARD SHAKE, for your world to go from bright and full of possibilities...to the agony of seeing a child, clinging to life on ventilators..or, coming home from a quick run to the grocery store to find your baby dead and your husband endlessly sorry....but forever guilty of killing your precious child. Shaken baby scenarios are nightmarish, to say the least...if you haven't ever seen much about this...please look on the internet...to see how serious this is. I'm actually GLAD that he has been swatting her, instead of shaking her...I mean, spanking, I can grab my baby and run away from...sadly, with shaking, too many babies never come back from that..or do, and never become the person they were born to be.

B. He is lying, is *not* doing this out of a knee jerk reaction and is an abuser who need to become your ex-husband immediately. If the man is an abuser, especially considering that this all started in infancy with your child, this just needs to end. The fact that this is behavior that you've never seen in him before...scares me even more than if you had seen anger, etc in his personality before now. THe fact that stepping into a parenting role has brought this out in him, sends up bigger red flags for me....it more than frightens me, when people develop violent tendancies out of *nowhere*...that, to me, signals some sort of past trauma that MAJORLY needs to be worked on.

So....I think first, you need to start *really* thinking about what you know of this man. Is this behavior coming out of nowhere...or is there something you've missed? Either way, he needs to be in therapy immediately. Also, this therapist needs to agree to giving you feedback...this therapy in the long run, will be to help him overcome whatever it is that is creating this bahavior...but in the meantime, is on an emergent basis and to help you to determine if this man can be around your child AT ALL. Obviously he can't be alone with her for a moment...but you need to know if you need to leave, or if this is something which will begin to improve, if he has the support of therapy...someone who is meeting with him weekly AT LEAST to support him in becoming the father he needs to be...the father your baby deserves.

I have no idea how I would handle this situation as far as leaving or staying...I would rather see him leave the house and crash on his brothers couch, or something...that see you leave your home. You haven't done a thing wrong here and your baby CERTAINLY doesn't deserve to be uprooted. If you go to your husband, explain to him that he needs to leave...and his reaction is one of "Oh come ON, its not THAT serious" - then you DO need to get out because he's not tkaing this seriously. BUT...if his reaction is more along the lines of "I don't want to be dangerous, I really won't do it again, I promise" and then you say "I know, but what if, in a split second, you lose it and shake her hard once...that's all it takes to seriously injur, kill or permanently disable her, I'm doing this to protect her" - and he says "I want her to be protected, okay, I'll go, I'm so sorry this is happening" - then you know that he understands that this is SO not okay and that he has a problem...that would indicate to me a much better chance that he's got a REAL and VALID issue that he just needs help in sorting out....and that he's not just an abuser.

To the other posters on this thread, who are saying "leave NOW" - okay. I understand. I really do...an I get, that when you have a baby, your priorities shift and no matter how much you love your spouse, you do what you must at all times to protect your child. HOWEVER...please imagine this womans nightmare. This woman has a DH she loves...they have a history, are building a family...and the next thing she knows, he's hitting her kid! Oh my gosh my heart poiunds just thinking about it....she says he hasn't ever shown signs of violence before and that he doesn't mean to do it, doesn't want to do it. This man is probably sitting there thinking "What's WRONG with me, get ahold of yourself, Jim..." - or something similar. He probably feels guilt, rage, powerlessness..all wrapped into one agonizing moment of realizing that he;s done it again. There could be something REALLY wrong here...this woman has a duty to her child to protect her...but she also has a duty to this child and a duty as this mans wife...to try and help her spouse get to the bottom of what this is all about.

If he's an abuser....she's got to walk and not look back....but let me tell you something. **I** am the product of an insane childhood...I wen through INSANE amounts of therapy to overcome my issues, to prepare for being an adult and, someday, a mother. I had no good mother figure and only abusive men to serve as male roll models. I had an idea in my head of the family life I wanted...but I didn't have the tools. I didn't want anything more than to be a good mom, so I worked on it. Now, I'm the wife to a FABULOUS man and the mother to a one year old and a little one on the way! There is *NO* hitting in my house...as a kid who was constatnly hit, etc...I won't tolerate even, like, pinching or anything that resembles physical touch that is not playful or loving....but in the back of my head....every once in a while...there's that voice. That ugly, sick, twisted voice of my angry mother..."SHUT UP, you are BAD, why do you always mess everything up! You've ruined my whole LIFE!" - saying terrible things. I'm sitting there, holding my precious baby, doing all the right things as she cries...I rock her, hold her...pour my love into her...but there's that voice. It hardly ever comes, but it's there. Some residue on the back of my brain...some recorded message that is still persitent, still not compeltely faded away.

I brush that voice off and move on with my day. It's not something I *feel*...it's just from year and years of hearing it as a normal response to achild in distress. I can't help it...I've done the work...my home is happy, it's just something I have to disregard. I'm not her.

I share that bit of my story....because when I hear what this man has done, it strikes me that, maybe he didn't know that he would be so effected by whatever it is, that planted this seed of rage in him. Maybe on a deep level, he doesn't feel like he has what it takes to be a good dad and feel powerless and snaps...maybe he was also a victim of abuse...I'm saying, it is quite and entirely possbile, that like many many many people (especially men) who edure something traumatic, he tucked it away in the back of his head and never thought about it again...and that it is now rearing it's ugly head...and really, only serving to worsten the situation by reinforcing this idea that he is stupid, doesn't know what he's doing, etc.

I'm not saying this mother doesn't needtp put her childs safety first....I'm SAYING...that this man doesn't need to have the book thrown at him first thing. Maybe he's a real creep...maybe he;s an abuser and she didn't know it...or maybe she should've seen signs but didn't...who knows, who knows what the situation is.....but if he is a loving, good man, who just has something creeping in his past that even HE doesn't understand...he AND this family, deserve the chance to survive this intact...before he's sold down the river as the worstguy who ever lived.

Sending the idea to this mother, that this man is a disgusting creep who can never be forgiven, will only serve to make her feel more alone, more betrayed and more hopeless than she already must feel.

So..OP..sorry this is long and weird and disjointed....but the bottom line is this:

1. Immediate space
2. Immediate therapy
3. Immediate







s for you, because this sucks
4. Don't give up or feel like there's no coming back....in your life asa married person, you and your spouse will have so many ups and downs, so many things to overcome...this is a tough, tough tough one...because it involves your child being hurt. But please have hope, unless there is something major or really bad that you don't know or that you just haven't told us....I think that your husband is probably also really upset and may not have a clue as to why he can't cope with a fussy baby. If you determine that he is a safe guy, with an unsafe coping mechanism...as apposed to a straight abuser, than there is definitely something here worth salvaging.

GL and KUP....we're rooting for you, your precious little one and your marriage.


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## Caneel

OP - hugs, a dump truck full, to you. I don't know what else to say at this point...


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## Caneel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
I'd show my husband the same compassion and concern that I hope he would show for me if the situation was reversed and assist him in getting the help he needs like therapy and some parenting classes. I would also of course do what I needed to do to protect my child which would involve not leaving her alone with her dad until I felt he was able to deal with her without hitting her.

This.


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## riverscout

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Laurelsprings* 
I think if the situation were reversed, and this was a Dad posting about his wife spanking their newborn, many more posters would be advocating getting the abusive parent help. IME, PPD/PPP is not just for moms...

Exactly. Dads can get their own form of PPD. Here's and interesting article about it:

Do Men Get Postpartum Depression Too?: Study Shows 1 In 10 Dads Has Moderate To Severe Postpartum Depression

Quote:

Paulson says that research suggests that signs and symptoms of postpartum depression differ between the sexes.

Women are often sad or withdrawn, while men may become irritable, aggressive, and even hostile, he says.


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## purplemoon

I am so sorry you are dealing with this. You got some great advise. No matter what you choose to do, medication and therapy, parenting classes, leaving, well, don't leave him alone with the baby. At all.

And I am praying and sending good thoughts to you during this hard, hard time. I can't even imagine....


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## claddaghmom

Hmm well if he is sincere in saying that he tries to stop but can't, that would be a red flag for me.

It sounds like he isn't practicing parenting, but suffering from an issue and in need of help.

If you are sure that the incident is restricted to the stress from hearing an infant cry, I would simply make sure he was never alone w/ her or able to physically reach her when she is crying.

Then I would make sure he started intense IC and I would start marital therapy as well.

Then I would see if I could get a 3rd party/gal to supervise visitation with him while I'm gone to see how he handles it.

No improvement would be an immediate dealbreaker.

PS: document document document! You need photos and dates as well as a brief description of the incident, preferably on 8x11 lined paper. Save everything.

If you think this is a serious problem that won't be rectified through counseling then seek a pediatrician to get an official exam and records. The ped will call CPS.


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## joensally

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
I'd show my husband the same compassion and concern that I hope he would show for me if the situation was reversed and assist him in getting the help he needs like therapy and some parenting classes. I would also of course do what I needed to do to protect my child which would involve not leaving her alone with her dad until I felt he was able to deal with her without hitting her.

This.








odester


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## PretzelMama

Huge hugs mama.







What a terrible position to be in, for all 3 of you.

I don't really have much to add, except to reiterate that you must never leave him unattended with your baby, EVER, and that you need to get him help. It's scary to me that he knows intellectually that it's wrong, yet seems to be unable to control it.

I hope that you can work through this.


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## Amylcd

Quote:

WHen he brought her back to me, she had little red marks up and down her legs.. he admitted to flicking her on the legs over and over because she wouldn't shut up and let him install a ceiling fan. Then, when he knew he'd lost control he put her in a closet. (actually, that was a good idea)
I hope you called CPS the moment he left.


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## BroodyWoodsgal

Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 
Hmm well if he is sincere in saying that he tries to stop but can't, that would be a red flag for me.

It sounds like he isn't practicing parenting, but suffering from an issue and in need of help.

If you are sure that the incident is restricted to the stress from hearing an infant cry, I would simply make sure he was never alone w/ her or able to physically reach her when she is crying.

Then I would make sure he started intense IC and I would start marital therapy as well.

Then I would see if I could get a 3rd party/gal to supervise visitation with him while I'm gone to see how he handles it.

No improvement would be an immediate dealbreaker.

PS: document document document! You need photos and dates as well as a brief description of the incident, preferably on 8x11 lined paper. Save everything.

If you think this is a serious problem that won't be rectified through counseling then seek a pediatrician to get an official exam and records. The ped will call CPS.

^ THIS...all very good, especially the documenting of EVERYTHING....sadly, we cannot always tell, right before things go from bad to worse and when it comes to our kids...we must be beyond prepared for the possibility.

The only part I don't agree with...is the 3rd party supervisor person. As far as I'm concerned...if you can't be trusted alone with my DD, you can't be trusted out of my sight with her, even if someone else is around her. That person is not going to watch you, like *I'm* going to watch you, if you are truly a danger to my kid.

Also...riverscout is speaking truth. Yes, yes.


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## Joyster

If you want to know what I'd do, well, I'd kick him out. If he wanted back in, he would be signing up for therapy and showing me very tangible measures he's taking, so that this never happens again. But I'm not you.

You have to decide what you want to do. But here is some food for thought. What you need to do is to find a way to keep that baby safe at all times, which means he can't really be left unsupervised. You need to document everything. You need to be aware that in many areas if the state finds out, they will remove your baby. You should try to find some information anonymously from someone who works in a shelter, crisis line, CPS what your rights and responsibilities are. You need to have a safety plan, a way to get out in an emergency, some back up funds if possible and a safe place to stash important documents and personal items.

This isn't going to get better without some serious help and intervention, so you and he need to decide what that looks like. You need to decide what your dealbreaker is. You need to find people who you can trust and who will support you, which is a burden on you and them for their instincts might tell them to run to CPS, so chose wisely. That said, do not let yourself get isolated IRL. You need to reinforce yourself because this is a long hard road.

This change has to come from him and you, be prepared he may not change, in which case, you will have to to protect your baby. I wish you all the best, good luck mama and stay safe.


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## Liquesce

I'm honestly really surprised in this thread how many people seem to not know how frequent -- not how common, but still how frequent -- it is for a person's "wiring" to be crossed with regard to how to handle that powerful instinct to stop a baby's cries. There is a reason there is so much effort put into teaching new parents to put their babies down in a safe spot and walk away when they feel overwhelmed. While I agree that if he's unwilling to seek help the OP should leave, and that he should not be left in charge of the child until everyone is confident he has learned how to control himself, still there _is_ help available. And I think it's important for all parents to know that -- that if they feel like they can't handle the crying, there are resources for learning how to. That admitting a need for help does not automatically mean losing one's whole family.


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## claddaghmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 
^ THIS...all very good, especially the documenting of EVERYTHING....sadly, we cannot always tell, right before things go from bad to worse and when it comes to our kids...we must be beyond prepared for the possibility.

The only part I don't agree with...is the 3rd party supervisor person. As far as I'm concerned...if you can't be trusted alone with my DD, you can't be trusted out of my sight with her, even if someone else is around her. That person is not going to watch you, like *I'm* going to watch you, if you are truly a danger to my kid.

Also...riverscout is speaking truth. Yes, yes.

GAL purposes are to document change through psychotherapy...not to replace my watchful eye.







I would want tangible, evident change before reconciliation and unsupervised time.


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## IntrovertExtrovert

I would be more worried about him saying that he can't control it. This is what I hope I would do:

I would tell my child's pediatrician, and I would either call CPS or one of the abuse hotlines for my state: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/ovc/help/ca.htm

They can actually help get your spouse into low-cost anger management or parenting classes, and even counseling. Honestly, it sounds like your spouse really needs counseling to work through this.

I would tell him that I will not allow my child to live with someone who cannot control hitting an infant. I would tell him that I would consider getting back together when he has seen a counsellor and attended parenting and/or anger management classes, and that I would start attending parenting classes, too.

Then I would leave with my child. I would try to find somewhere safe to stay for up to several months. If he really seems to be getting his stuff together, I would consider taking him back. I know that lots of mamas on here will disagree with me about that, but I feel that there are plenty of moms and dads both who started out hitting and learned how to stop.

I would also try to find a low-cost counsellor for myself through my doctor or social services. I would certainly need to work through what had happened, work through trusting him again if I did decide to take him back, and work through figuring out how to stand up for myself and my child quickly and as forcefully as needed.


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## rhiandmoi

It bothers me that he doesn't know why he is spanking and he is reacting instinctively. He needs to first recognize that this is an issue, which can be controlled. If he doesn't hit or act violent when he is angry normally, I think there is a very good chance that he can learn to recognize that he wants to hit and then not do it. I say this because I want to hit all the time. ALL THE TIME. Especially when I am frustrated or annoyed, which are two emotions that newborns have a tendency to bring out. He needs to learn to recognize that he is getting frustrated or annoyed and then redirect his emotions into something else besides hitting. I make a lot of aggravated noises. I sound stupid, but it works.


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## Violet2

This must be so hard for you momma. I'm so sorry. It sounds like maybe your DH is having a hard time with fatherhood and needs some support. Since you say he has never hit you, this must be very odd behavior for him.

Counseling is a good idea, but since many people dig their heels in on therapy, I would see if he has a friend who is a father who can give him some guidance.

I would also be sure he understands how baby's develop and why they do what they do. The Happiest Baby on the Block DVD is good for the newborn phase. I highly suggest watching the Unconditional Parenting DVD together. I like DVDs because you can watch them together and discuss them which may be very helpful.

Continue to let him know this is inappropriate behavior but also give him suggestions on alternatives. Since it sounds like he's been a good partner up until now, don't give up on him just yet.

Also, can your mom come help? Can you go visit your mom or his parents and give him a break?

Obviously if things escalate though, you will have to consider leaving. And I would not leave him alone with the baby.

Good luck OP.

V


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## kathrineg

You said you didn't notice him hitting her for a couple of months...do you think he was doing it but hiding it from you? Or was he able to control himself for those months? Or was he not stressed out enough?

I'm really sorry. I hope you can go somewhere with your baby where you will get support and love (like a family members' or friends' house) in this difficult time.


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## nextcommercial

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amylcd* 
I hope you called CPS the moment he left.

I did. But, the marks only lasted another 20 minutes, so CPS said that unless it leaves a mark, it's not really child abuse.

The police eventually had to get involved, but that was three months later.


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## genesee

I have not read the other replies.

I would absolutely make sure to separate your baby and your husband in any way that you can - hopefully there would be a home you and your baby could go to, a family, a friend, a church member. Abuse is always dangerous - you never know when the next level will arrive. He is violent towards your baby and babies are just so delicate - he could shake her or damage her irreparably in any number of ways. You must protect your child.

I would also call CPS to document this behavior, after you were safely away. If you so choose, you can enter into counseling with your husband. You may want to see this as a marriage-ender/deal-breaker, and if so that is your right to do! No one should be expected to "try" in a violent situation. But if you want the marriage to work, you can do couples counseling with him and require him to do individual/parenting work as well.

I am so sorry this is happening to you and your family.

Gen


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## mermaidmama

I'm sorry but, that would be a hill for me to die on. Hitting a 1 month old!?
I would be outta there as soon as it happened no questions asked .... and I would file a report.
I've been hit before and allowed it to continue (NOT by DH).....but I will be d***ed if I allow someone to hit my INFANT.


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## BroodyWoodsgal

Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 
GAL purposes are to document change through psychotherapy...not to replace my watchful eye.







I would want tangible, evident change before reconciliation and unsupervised time.











I'm so sorry, the way I read gal, reading qiuckly...was as a "lady"...you know "some gal from the neighborhood!" - I didn't read it as GAL as in Gaurdian Ad Litum!!! That's what I get for reading fast....I agree with you! Lady from down the block...NO, GAL...YES! Sorry love!


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## labdogs42

I agree that the baby should not be left alone with the dad at this point. I would be worried about leaving him with the baby because I'd be scared to death that he would shake the baby at some point if the baby kept crying.

I'm not sure that OP should jump right to leaving the guy. He needs help. If he's willing to get help, maybe this situation could be resolved. It sounds like he needs some therapy and maybe some anti anxiety meds to me. True, it isn't a normal instinct to hit a newborn, but something needs to be done to figure out WHY he has this instinct/urge instead of the normal ones. If he's sorry that he's doing it, it sounds like he needs help. He should get that help, even if OP decides she needs to leave him.


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## IceyTheBatmom

This is going to kill me to write this, but I don't feel like I have much choice.

I am one of those people who have an impulse to hit. I was spanked over every tiny little thing, I've got one sibling, 3 years younger, and I used to hit him to get my way, so it's deeply ingrained.

I also had severe PPD, and when my zoloft was still kicking in, I came extremely close to shaking my son, luckily I stopped (last second, but still before any damage could happen), put him down next to my husband and demanded he take over (he was asleep) and left the room until the crying restarted my mommy hormones, and I was absolutely certain that I did not want to harm him, only feed him. (cosleeping, middle of the night, he got frustrated because he couldn't find the nipple to latch, and would root while I was trying to get it in his mouth, so it was a cycle of frustration)

I do have myself under control, and I am extremely anti-spank. Anyone hits my child, that will be the last time they see them. But it's hard when you feel like you're the one most likely to do it.

One thing that helps me is to visualize a deflecting shield around DS, and tell myself to hit something else. I hit myself in the upper thigh alot, since I can't get a good swing that way, and can't cause myself any real damage. Kinda like a self-spank, just enough pain to remind me not to subject him to it. Also making a fist as hard as I can, causes my hand a tiny bit of pain, and again, reminds me this is not something I want to inflict on my child.

Unfortunately DS picked up hitting from another child I was watching (that stopped when an older sibling of that child took a swing at my pregnant stomach with a metal pipe) so now he gets frustrated and wants to hit. Luckily he understands that hitting makes hurties (he feels terrible afterward) and we are working on 'hit the pillow, hit the couch, people and pets are not for hitting.' It's working, slowly.

So if it is an impulse thing, it can be controlled. But he's got to want to control it, and he's got to be dead-set against causing his child pain before he can be trusted to follow through with it.


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## Barefoot~Baker

OP, I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. I hope you can find the strength to do what you need to do and that your dh can get help









And

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IceyTheBatmom* 
This is going to kill me to write this, but I don't feel like I have much choice.

I am one of those people who have an impulse to hit. I was spanked over every tiny little thing, I've got one sibling, 3 years younger, and I used to hit him to get my way, so it's deeply ingrained.

I also had severe PPD, and when my zoloft was still kicking in, I came extremely close to shaking my son, luckily I stopped (last second, but still before any damage could happen), put him down next to my husband and demanded he take over (he was asleep) and left the room until the crying restarted my mommy hormones, and I was absolutely certain that I did not want to harm him, only feed him. (cosleeping, middle of the night, he got frustrated because he couldn't find the nipple to latch, and would root while I was trying to get it in his mouth, so it was a cycle of frustration)

I do have myself under control, and I am extremely anti-spank. Anyone hits my child, that will be the last time they see them. But it's hard when you feel like you're the one most likely to do it.

One thing that helps me is to visualize a deflecting shield around DS, and tell myself to hit something else. I hit myself in the upper thigh alot, since I can't get a good swing that way, and can't cause myself any real damage. Kinda like a self-spank, just enough pain to remind me not to subject him to it. Also making a fist as hard as I can, causes my hand a tiny bit of pain, and again, reminds me this is not something I want to inflict on my child.

Unfortunately DS picked up hitting from another child I was watching (that stopped when an older sibling of that child took a swing at my pregnant stomach with a metal pipe) so now he gets frustrated and wants to hit. Luckily he understands that hitting makes hurties (he feels terrible afterward) and we are working on 'hit the pillow, hit the couch, people and pets are not for hitting.' It's working, slowly.

So if it is an impulse thing, it can be controlled. But he's got to want to control it, and he's got to be dead-set against causing his child pain before he can be trusted to follow through with it.

You are very brave to admit this







and you're a wonderful mother for protecting your son


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## purplemoon

Oh, I have been there too. You aren't alone. When my son had colic and screaming non-stop when I was alone with PPD, you bet I had the urge. But you know what? I put him in the crib and took a shower whenever that happened. I never touched him. It is controllable. I never had that urge after the colic and PPD stopped, and never with my second. So it may not be a "forever" thing. What is troubling is that he can't control it. He needs to learn how to do that, and until he does, he cannot be left alone with the babe.

It isn't uncommon for over-stressed PPD sufferers with a difficult child to get to that moment. It is uncommon for anyone to act on it (well, not uncommon enough sadly).


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BoringTales* 
I'm not anti-spanking, but spanking a newborn?? That added to the fact that he is telling you he can't control himself would set off huge alarm bells. If he can't resist spanking an infant, what is to say he'll be able to resist shaking it if he really loses it.

I wouldn't want the baby alone with him until the issue was fully dealt with and resolved and I was 100% sure my child was safe in his care.

























: for your family


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## suziek

OP--Are you out there? We are thinking of you...


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BoringTales* 
I'm not anti-spanking, but spanking a newborn?? That added to the fact that he is telling you he can't control himself would set off huge alarm bells. If he can't resist spanking an infant, what is to say he'll be able to resist shaking it if he really loses it.

This. Hitting an infant is scary stuff, and the "I can't help it" bit is even scarier in some ways.


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## Storm Bride

I don't get why so many people are saying that he sees nothing wrong with it. The OP said:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *odester* 
hHe spoke to me later and said that when he spanks Camille he feels bad about it. He does not mean to do it, it is instinctive. He told me that he is trying not to do it, but cannot seem to control it.

He obviously does see something wrong with it. A belief that he has the right to spank isn't the issue here. The issue is something else...his lack of self-control around a crying baby would seem to be it. In some ways, that's scarier, but it's a _different_ problem than seeing nothing wrong with spanking a baby. The problem can't be addressed if it's not properly identified.


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## 2pinks

This is a hill to die on for me. I would call the cops/cps whomever before I EVER allowed this to happen again. If this man does more damage to this poor defenseless BABY the OP could be held just as accountable b/c she knew about it and did nothing. Hill.to.die.on.!


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## BroodyWoodsgal

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I don't get why so many people are saying that he sees nothing wrong with it. The OP said:

He obviously does see something wrong with it. A belief that he has the right to spank isn't the issue here. The issue is something else...his lack of self-control around a crying baby would seem to be it. In some ways, that's scarier, but it's a _different_ problem than seeing nothing wrong with spanking a baby. The problem can't be addressed if it's not properly identified.


I agree with you Storm...if the problem was his seeing nothing wrong with it....I, personally, would have a hard time finding a good reason to continue that marriage...but then, the issue of whether or not you agree with hitting kids, SHOULD come before you get married...so I couldn't imagine finding myself there anyway.

This man doesn't WANT to hit his infant...he obviously has no idea how to soothe her, probably feels HORRIBLE about it and useless, frustration builds and builds and in all of 30 seconds he's lashed out and hit her bottom. It sucks...but it's a far cry better than "Yeah I hit her and I don't see a problem with that"- you know?


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## phathui5

Have you sat down and talked with him about what kinds of discipline you're ok with?


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## texmati

I haven't read all the responses. For a child this young, I would treat it the same way as if you found out he was letting the child go hungry--not feeding it for long periods of time.

It's completely unacceptable, and it endangers your child. I'd make sure that your child was safe first, and after that, try and get to the bottom of what's going on with your DH.

your dh sounds like a nice guy, and I also understand the urge to hit-- children can be frustrating, and bring out the worst in poeple sometimes. They can't communicate with you, they just don't listen, and sometimes you can't walk away. I'd try and make sure that you aren't leaving your kid in these kind of situations with your husband until he gets this under controll.


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## Juvysen




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## Hey Mama!

Sorry if this is a repeat but I think it is important to say. If your dh continues to hit the baby, and leaves a mark, someone else may call CPS then you will BOTH lose your child, not just him. CPS will take the baby because you knew the abuse was happening and chose not to do anything about it. I understand having a difficult infant and the urge to hit. I come from a family where my mom had no problems slapping me across the face with a hand full of rings for any little thing. It is a deeply ingrained reaction in me that I try my very hardest to control. My oldest dd was/is high needs and I had thoughts of throwing her across the room. I never did anything to her though, I understood that that was totally wrong and channeled my anger elsewhere, usually a pillow. I remind myself how it felt as a child to have the person you love the most cause you pain-I keep that feeling at the front of my mind when I feel myself starting to lose control. Having that high needs baby and facing my past is what drove me to attachment parenting-I knew I could not do to my kids what my mom did to me. Your dh needs to find the root of his problem and deal with it, or you need to leave him. Do not let your baby daughter suffer at the hands of one of the people she should trust the most.


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## Kirstyandgirls

I am so sorry that you are going through this.

I haven't read the other replies yet so I'm probably echoing what others have said but if your dh finds an infant so challenging that he cannot stop himself from spanking her, what will he do when she's 2 and screaming blue murder because you buttered her toast wrong or when she's five and she refuses to get ready for school!

If he was my husband i would let him know that unless he shows a massive effort to change (parenting class for eg) he would have to leave. And I would take over 100% of the childcare, I would let him know why he was not allowed to be alone with her.

I'm sorry but even parents who think it's ok to spank would not do this to a NEWBORN baby.

It must be hard for you to be in this situation but you HAVE to stick up for your dd

Good luck

kirsty x


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirstyandgirls* 
...if your dh finds an infant so challenging that he cannot stop himself from spanking her, what will he do when she's 2 and screaming blue murder because you buttered her toast wrong or when she's five and she refuses to get ready for school!

Seriously? I think the OP's dh has a serious problem, but I don't follow this train of thought at all. I find dealing with crying babies who won't stop to be about 100X more frustrating than either of the scenarios above...and I speak as someone who had a son who wouldn't get ready for school, when I had to get him there _and_ catch my bus to work, pretty much every morning for a full year. It was extremely frustrating...but not in the same gut level way that a baby who won't stop crying is.

I think that the OP's dh needs to learn to step away before anything else. Sometimes, the best thing to do is put the baby down and just walk away to calm down. It doesn't sound like he has that in his wiring (and I've known people who would hit a baby before they'd do that, because walking away felt neglectful, or they were afraid of some nebulous "worse thing" happening to them). He needs that, as a protective step, immediately. Then, he can start working on finding better ways to cope.


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## pixiekisses

If anyone (including my DH) ever hit my infant that person would be out of my house within seconds.
I would kick him out in an instant to keep my child safe and away from abuse, and I would change the locks that very same day. (If it's his house or something I would take the babe and leave, to a safe place he didn't know about.)
Then I would get him help, but I wouldn't stay with him and wait for him to do something about it. I would first keep him away from my child, and then help him get help. But I could never forgive something like that, so it would absolutely be a deal breaker for me. But I know someone could probably forgive and live with it if their DH got serious help.
But please, do not leave your child alone with him, not even for a second, take her to the bathroom with you even.
Whatever you do, keep her safe, and away from abuse. Please get him help if you do not want to leave him, he really needs it. And stay safe.


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## Prairiemother

Where I live there is a legal obligation to report this sort of thing to child welfare authorities. I'm really worried about this baby. I do feel sorry for the father. I understand the strong emotions elicited by a crying infant. However, it sounds as though this child is at risk.


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## BellaRose0212

Original Poster? Is there anything we can do to help? Any resources we can gather for your state?


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## SquishyKitty

I think even states that condone spanking would not condone hitting an infant. They don't even have the cognitive skills yet to understand the cause/effect intent of spanking.

Your DH needs to agree to some sort of counseling/therapy, as well as maybe a parenting class. It sounds to me like a combination of "Oh my god she's crying again I have no idea how to make her stop" and "I was spanked and I'm fine".

There are a lot of issues at play, but I don't think that up and leaving your DH is the right answer, unless through counseling and/or therapy, his behaviour doesn't change.


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## LeahC

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stellimamo* 
I would remove myself and my child from the household immediately. After getting to a safe place I would find a good divorce lawyer.

Spanking an infant is NEVER ok or excusable, period.

ETA. I would also take pictures of any marks that were left if they would be need for divorce proceedings or a future CPS case.

Oh my gosh, ditto word for word.

If he spanks a 1 month old for crying (basically communicating!), then what will he do when your daughter is 3 and tests every limit/ boundary and pushes your buttons like 3 year olds do?

He will only get more violent as time goes on. Please, leave now and get protection for both your daughter and yourself.


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## 4inMyHeart3inArms

I would leave him for the sake of your childs life. its only going to escalate from here.


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## riverscout

A friend of mine slapped one of her babies in the face once when he was crying. The stress of having multiples coupled with PPD just caused her to lose control for a second. She got help. She is fine now. She does not hit her children or abuse them in any way. Her kids are happy and healthy, and she and her husband are still together. I can't imagine what life might be like for her family now if she had not been given the chance to make things right.


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## BroodyWoodsgal

OKay....I *REALLY* don't get the impression that this man is a dangerously violent guy, who is going to become more and more violent as this baby becomes a better and better communicator.

I think the *reason* this dad is lashing out physically is *because* of the poor communication.

He's changin the diaper, the baby fusses "Don't you cry, don't cry, don't cry" the dad is thinking to himself..."Waaahhhh" the baby cries..."shhhh shhhh shhh stop it, stop it" the dad says "Stop, please stop crying now, what do you want, you just ate, what do you want??!!" - "waahhhh wahhhhh wahhhhhh" the baby says. "No!!" *bottom smack*. "Oh no, oh baby stop it, don't cry anymore" dad says to himself.

I really doubt that it's "Shut up kid, or I'll give you somethin' to cry about you damn brat!" - smack smack "That'll teach ya!" - THAT, you run screaming from...directly from your house, to a lawyers office to find out what your rights are. But the former...the top description...that is not the action/thoughts of a violent man. How many of you mama, based on what the OP described, would jump to assuming the second scenario, before the first? Can't you see the first, as fitting the original post a bit better? I mean, come on!

I'm not saying this man should be commended for his parenting...or that this mother should leave her child alone with him....but from all the OP has says, this is NOT charecteristic of her DH, he DOES feel badly about it, KNOWS it's not okay and DOESN:T WANT TO DO IT. The fact that he says it's his instinct, is probably half correct...this man probably has something in his background which causes this to be his kneejerk reaction to the babys crying.

Many many men don'tknow how to deal properly with a crying baby, especially at first...some of them try and try, but end up feeling bad at it, defeated and start developing bad habits as a result. For most men who struggle with knowing how to meet an infants needs and the frustration that comes with that, the tendency is to hand the baby off to a mama who could really use the break and a partner who could handle the baby on his own while she rests, cooks, etc...so, you know, that can be annoying, to have a spouse who sort of gives up and just can't do it. But another more shocking and dangerous reaction, is to sort of snap and lash out. Yell, throw something, or, in worst case....shake a baby or hit it.

*I* think this mama needs to make sure her DH is not alone with this baby, for the fact that his frustration leads him to lash out..and I would not want the OP to take a chance and have him lose it and shake the baby or something as horrible...but I think that she is lucky, to have caught this ugly pattern of frustration at bottom smacking. As completely shocking and gut churning as it is, to imagine anyone hitting an infant...I think it's important to try and think of where this poor dada is coming from too...he probably feels like a real piece of crud for not having the skill set to manage his baby girl when she is in distress. Seriously, some men would rather scratch their own eyes out than hear a baby cry for more than two seconds...it just sparks some crazy feeling in them, they hate it so much..

My own DH totally cumbles at the sound of prolonged baby crying...he also happens to have a lot of patience for things smaller than him, which need his help...so, that coupling led him to become completely dedicated to finding out how to soothe her...and for not having boobies...he REALLY learned some awesome tricks for getting her soothed. but it could have been different...it could have been.

All I'm saying is, when you get married, you promise to help this person you love through WHATEVER comes for you...sickness, health, all that. I'm not saying your marriage comes before your childrens safety...but IMO what the OP is dealing with, is one of those harder things that EVERY marriage will be faced with.

Stop making this dad out to be some sort of horrible human being...he's probably NOT. There is no "good and evil"....in this world there are GREAT parents, TERRIBLE parents...and in between...you can find some GREAT people...with TERRIBLE parenting skills. I would be willing to bet, that this man is one of those...and he deserves the benefit of the doubt.


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## rockycrop

I just wanted to chime in and say my dad spanked me once when I was a baby. I was my parent's first baby and my dad had just started working nights, I think he was just very tired and frustrated. I was in my crib and I wouldn't go to sleep and he spanked me. (Obviously I remember none of this...a story my mom told. She said I should never tell anyone!).
I was spanked maybe 2 or 3 more times throughout the rest of my childhood. My dad was (and is!) a really great dad: loving, kind, caring, generous with his time and affection. I really couldn't ask for a better father.
I think OP's husband needs help and support. He needs to be taught how to cope with his frustrations. But it doesn't necessarily mean he is a horrible person.


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## suziek

I'd just like to hear from OP again. Coming here she got an earful, a lot of concern, conflicting advice, etc. I'd like to know how she is and what she is thinking.

Send word!


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## Liquesce

I really, really think all could benefit by listening to AverysMomma. Although I would add that being pushed over the brink by a baby crying isn't restricted to men. It can happen to mothers without the skill set to cope just as much as to fathers. But no matter who it happens to, it is a skill set that can be learned by those who understand that they need to and really want to.


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## unfrozncavegrl

OP Please reply if you are up to it. I read this thread a couple of days back and cannot stop thinking about your family.


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