# WWYD? possible child abuse/imprisionment *update post 49*



## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

Honestly I don't even know what to title this. My dh and I have been looking at buying a house and were really excited to see one in particular. Well....we saw some things that were really "off" and has left my dh, our realtor and myself extremely upset. I'll try to explain this the best I can so bear with me. I really could use some input on this one.

We show up and our realtor says the owner said that his kids were there, ok, no big deal. My dh barely even gets out of the truck and this man runs out and asks my dh to move his truck b/c he is going to be leaving in a minute so my dh moves his truck. We walk in and are immediately struck with how messy this house was. Clothes everywhere, food stacked on the counters, junk everywhere. His son who was about 12 or so was sitting in the living room, he barely even acknowledged us. When he did look, I gave him a smile and he quickly turned away. The man was sitting in the living room on the computer by this time. So we start looking around and our realtor asks him if there are any rooms that we can't go in and he said "be careful going in the girls room" ok....so we proceed through this disaster of a house, in the laundry room, we couldn't even see a dryer b/c of the clothes piled up! Anyways, we head back to the bedrooms and you could obvisiouly tell this was the boys room and to our horror, there was a pad lock on the outside of the door







So we kinda looked at each other like "ok that's really weird" but continued through the house. We go upstairs to see the other bedrooms and a TV is in the middle of the room blarring very loudly. Off to the sides of this room there are 2 doors on either side, both padlocked from the outside and locked!







Now we are completely freaked out. We know those are the "girls" rooms b/c they are the only rooms left.

At this point, I was ready to leave. I was completely freaked out and I had such a bad feeling, it made me sick to stomach. So we finish looking at the house (very quickly I might add), the whole time all 3 of us completely weirded out at this point. As we go outside, the man follows us. My dh asks him about the property line and we all noticed he has scratches down the side of his face. They weren't razor cuts, but straight lines and a lot of them. Looked like fingernails to me. They were fresh, probably only a few days old. They were still red and scabby. So after he is done talking to my dh, he goes back up to the house, locks the door, checks the door and then leaves. He did not want us to go back into that house. As we were standing there, we also noticed that the 2 bedrooms that were padlocked, also had sheets over the windows.

I want to call the police. I just can't imagine why he has his kids padlocked in rooms. I listened to the rooms upstairs but didn't hear anything in them, but that doesn't mean anything. My kids were at my parents house (thank goodness!!) while we were at this house and I told my parents and my dad said to let it go but I don't think I can. Just thinking about it makes my stomach turn. My instinct is screaming at me to do something to help these children but if I do, he is going to know it is us and for all I know, he copied our license plate numbers or something. Should I wait a few days and then call or should I just leave it alone???


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## AutumnMama (Jan 2, 2004)

That's scary. I don't think I could not call to be honest. Though the guy sounds creepy, and I certainly can understand your hesitation.

Goodness.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

weren't you in your realtor's car? surely you are not the only people going through this house. i have no idea how they can be showing a house like that and get away with it for long. why don't you call CPS anonymously, tell them what you saw, and let them handle it?


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## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

We followed our realtor to the house. If I do call, I won't give them my info and I will do it from a pay phone but surely this guy will know it was us....I just don't know what to do. I have to help these kids but I'm afraid of putting my own family at risk.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I would call. Who knows why they have padlocks on them, but it's weird enough that something is off. (And the mess is enough that it makes me sound like maybe there's some sort of mental illness going on that's not being treated, and the kids could use the help.)


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Is it possible the padlocks are for the kids to lock up their rooms?


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## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PoppyMama* 
Is it possible the padlocks are for the kids to lock up their rooms?

But wouldn't you think that a normal lock on the handle would be enough? These are the heavy duty padlocks like what you use on a fence. They have the loop and then the padlock locks it down. It is screwed into the frame of the door...I can't imagine anyone doing that just to lock up a room. Seems extreme to me.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Can your agent ask around to see if there are other showings? If so, calling won't expose you, I wouldn't think. If not, well, I would call anyway but that is me and I'm used to big cities where I would be hard to find.

On a much milder note... when we bought our current home, we noticed there were doorknobs that lock on the kids' closet doors, so I asked about them and the mum told me they were for locking the kids in the closets when they were bad. One of the doors still is a bit kicked in from the inside. It's so sad.

We'd already bought, but I have to admit I did a little cleansing/blessing ritual.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I think you need to call the police and CPS. This is too odd and you are not the one to make the final call on this. Let someone with the lgal authority look in to this. Please, please, call. 1-800-4-A-Child


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm not usually a "call CPS" person, and I can see some other explanations for this stuff (padlocks to lock up the rooms - the girls may not have been in there - sheets as a cheaper alternative to curtains, as I know people who have done that - the mess could be a pre-move/starting to get organized mess, as I know my house is a disaster most of the time, and is _never_ anywhere near as bad as the early stages of moving/reorganizing).

All that said...I think I'd call on this one. If the kids aren't being locked in, it should be pretty easy to determine one way or the other, and if they _are_, it's really serious.


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## Girl In The Fire (Apr 6, 2005)

My first thought would be the locks are there to keep someone out rather than in. If you have a determined thieving and/or snooping sibling (or a addict parent which would not sound out of the realm of possibility in this situation) you need a padlock, a simple lock on the door knob wont do.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Individually these things wouldn't raise an alarm for me. Like others have said, there could be explanations for the padlocks (maybe the girls and boys had a problem invading each others' privacy and started locking each other out), the sheets (DH and I used sheets as curtains in our apartment because it worked just as well as real curtains and we didn't have to buy anything new), the mess (maybe that's just how they live...), even the scratches (my brother and I accidentally hurt adults as kids when play got too rough)

But everything together? I'd at least call so something was "on record" so if it ever did come out that there was abuse going on it's written down.


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## *MamaJen* (Apr 24, 2007)

If you do call CPS and there is a harmless explanation for everything, you can rest easy knowing you made the call in good faith.
If you don't call CPS, you will always wonder if the creepy guy was imprisoning his own children.
Dare I even mention Josef Fritzl?

ETA: Did you ask if you could go inside the padlocked rooms?


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## mellowyellowmama (Feb 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I'm not usually a "call CPS" person, and I can see some other explanations for this stuff (padlocks to lock up the rooms - the girls may not have been in there - sheets as a cheaper alternative to curtains, as I know people who have done that - the mess could be a pre-move/starting to get organized mess, as I know my house is a disaster most of the time, and is _never_ anywhere near as bad as the early stages of moving/reorganizing).

All that said...I think I'd call on this one. If the kids aren't being locked in, it should be pretty easy to determine one way or the other, and if they _are_, it's really serious.

This is my thought too. I don't like the whole "call CPS thing", but this one is strange. What if it really is that bad and no one is helping these kids. I wonder where the mom was.


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## amrijane128 (Jan 6, 2007)

I would call. For sure.


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## luv-my-boys (Dec 8, 2008)

I would call CPS and let them determine if something is going on obviously you were alarmed at what you saw. I wouldnt be too worried about the father *finding* you, unless say you bought the house or they knew your names or what not. If their house is on the market surely more people have/will come thru there.


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## Maluhia (Jun 24, 2007)

Please call.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

Oh, call. Call now.

I can see ups and downs to a bunch of this stuff. Padlocks may seem a tad extreme, but they are the easiest locks to install. On the downside though, they are hard to get past. If the kids are being locked in, that's obviously really bad.

The house might just be messy because of moving stuff, etc., but if clothes are piled so high you can't see the dryer... hello, fire hazard. Combined with possibly locking kids in, this is a senseless and preventable tragedy, so call.


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## PuppyFluffer (Mar 18, 2002)

This is a HUGE fire hazzard. I am sure it's against fire code to have locks on the outside of bedroom doors that cannot be unlocked by someone inside.

I think you should call and I don't say that lightly.


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## liliaceae (May 31, 2007)

Call the police!


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

I'm another that isn't usually in the "call CPS" camp, but I would call, absolutely. Along with everything else, it sounds like your instinct was screaming at you that something was wrong, wrong, wrong there.


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## ece602 (Feb 10, 2009)

Oh thats weird,

I'd talk to the realtor and see what she says about it. Is the man her client?? If he is, maybe she could get some info out of him about WTF is going on.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Please call.


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## tiffani (May 17, 2002)

I would call too. sooner the better.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
But wouldn't you think that a normal lock on the handle would be enough? These are the heavy duty padlocks like what you use on a fence. They have the loop and then the padlock locks it down. It is screwed into the frame of the door...I can't imagine anyone doing that just to lock up a room. Seems extreme to me.

Padlocks are much easier to install and kids can't lock themselves in. I used to have one on the outside of my bedroom door. I'm not saying that's the reasoning but it was my first thought.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I have no idea...but is it a shelter -type home perhaps? My dh and I looked at a home that was a shelter/transitional house for mentally imparied adults. It was a home...nothing institutional looking about if from the outside. It was a lovely looking home, with an inground pool, even. Yet all of the rooms had padlocks and all of the mini refridgerators had padlocks. Although, my realtor did know this and asked us not to be freaked out.

Was this your realtor's client or a ML?


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Umm, if you were really scared and creeped out, why didn't you knock on the padlocked doors to see if anyone was in the rooms??

If I thought kids were padlocked in their rooms, I would be pounding on the door and calling 911.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 
Umm, if you were really scared and creeped out, why didn't you knock on the padlocked doors to see if anyone was in the rooms??

If I thought kids were padlocked in their rooms, I would be pounding on the door and calling 911.










I wouldn't be pounding on the doors... because a man who would lock his kids up may very well become violent with someone who makes a big scene inside his house.

I'm cautious like that.

I would've asked to see the rooms though.

And I would call CPS.


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Ok, so you think there are children locked away in a room... but you did not immediately call the police? _This_ is the reason many children die from abuse, no one wants to get involved.


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## gromero (Apr 14, 2008)

Please please please call right away.

When everything is added all up, something sounds wrong...really wrong.

Can you imagine...what if there really was kids locked up in those rooms, and they heard someone in the house? Dh was was in a very very very abusive home growing up, and he has told me many many times that he wished all the time that someone would have called cps on his mom, that he knew people knew something was wrong but never wanted to get involved. When a friend came over, he would be begging in his mind for them to call.

I could not go to sleep tonight without making that phone call to cps. If nothing is wrong, well then no worries.

As far as the safety of your family, I would call the relator and ask him if he did any other showings (but from the sounds of how surprised he sounded, it doesn't seem like it), take extra percautions at home and while out and about.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

When you mentioned the padlocks, my first thought was that the kids want to keep each other OUT of their stuff...not that someone was IN the room and it was locked. I would have quietly knocked to see if anyone was in there. OR you could have asked to see the rooms...i mean, whats the point of viewing a home you want to buy if you arent looking in every single room?

You dont need to agonize whether you should call CPS...just call them, explain matter of factly what you saw, and let them take care of it. They probably wont do anything, but they may send someone out to look at the house. I doubt he is going to "come after you" or anything, he doesnt even know who you are.

We looked at a house once, a big huge older home...what you might call a fixer upper...most of the houses we looked at were empty, but this house had renters, their dogs were there barking at us, stuff everywhere...the whole vibe was just creepy. Not exactly putting us in the mood to want to buy that house. Later on, my son's father was delivering a pizza to that house (w/ new owners), told the guy who answered the door that he almost bought that house, and the guy told him he dodged a bullet, they had sunk so much money into the pit of a house. So....gut instincts are good. That doesnt mean he was holding kids hostage though!

Sheets on the windows i wouldnt think anything of. I have a sheet over my bedroom window because i am too cheap and lazy to go buy curtains for it.

Katherine


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## amma_mama (May 20, 2008)

I also vote for calling CPS - too many red flags. However, I do uinderstand the conerns about your own family's safety. I would check with the DMV whether inviduals can get your name from a license plate number. I know it could be done years ago, but I thought that changed. You could also get your plates replaced, perhaps claiming they were stolen so that the old ones would be voided (I usually would not suggest lying, but just thinking of the easiest/quickest way to disassociate your personal info from the license plate).


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I'm another one who votes for calling CPS.







:

If there's an innocent explanation, let them trot it out.


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## bmcneal (Nov 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
But wouldn't you think that a normal lock on the handle would be enough? These are the heavy duty padlocks like what you use on a fence. They have the loop and then the padlock locks it down. It is screwed into the frame of the door...I can't imagine anyone doing that just to lock up a room. Seems extreme to me.

A normal lock on the handle isn't always enough. When I was in foster care, all three of us kids had phones in our room, but mine was the only one that had caller ID, although all of us had phones in our rooms, and a common phone in the living room. We all had locks on our doors, the regular lock on the handle, but my foster brother was able to get through them without leaving any "evidence" (He did once when I was in my room and he didn't know.) He also somehow got through one of those deadbolt? locks, like you would use to lock your outside doors on my foster sister's room to try and steal money. If I would have been allowed to, I probably would have put a padlock on my door, as I'm pretty sure (not convinced, though) that he would *not* have been able to get through that...

OP, I would say to call and just tell them matter-of-factly what you saw. They might look into it and find there is a perfectly good explanation, and that will be it or they might look into it, find something *is* off about it, and save some children a world of hurt. It will help give you peace of mind if you call. Keep us updated.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Have you called yet?

I mean, why would he ask you to be careful around the girls' room, when you couldn't even get inside it?!?!

The whole situation seems to be the freakiest thing I've ever heard of. I seriously don't think there is any possible reasonable explanation for all of that.

Call, please, now! Or PM me the address and give me your local sheriff/police office non-emergency line so I can call them!!!


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

I don't know what's going on there, I wasn't there. However, if there is one single thing being a mom has taught me, it's to listen to your instincts. Every time don't I end up regretting it. Your instincts are telling you to do something, and that's enough reason to call (especially given the evidence).

K.


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## because why not? (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amma_mama* 
I also vote for calling CPS - too many red flags. However, I do uinderstand the conerns about your own family's safety. I would check with the DMV whether inviduals can get your name from a license plate number. I know it could be done years ago, but I thought that changed. You could also get your plates replaced, perhaps claiming they were stolen so that the old ones would be voided (I usually would not suggest lying, but just thinking of the easiest/quickest way to disassociate your personal info from the license plate).


Someone who doesn't have the foresight or presence of mind to cover up his _home dungeon_ is NOT going to run out and jot down your personal info! How on Earth would it make sense for him to put his house on the market and bring a parade of people through the place if he was in a panic about being discovered?

He may be abusing his children, but if so he obviously doesn't have a guilty conscience about it- a lot of abusers don't think they're doing anything wrong.

Nobody has your plate numbers. Nobody is coming after your family. There is NO need to call CPS from a payphone. They rely on anonymous calls, and they certainly don't TRACE calls for goodness' sake. And then what? They would turn it over to the potential abuser??? Really?

Just call them (CPS- not the police. Cops are worse than useless for domestic issues). If it's nothing, it's nothing. After 12 months, there won't even be any record of your phone call. There really is nothing at stake for anyone except, possibly, those kids.


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## zonapellucida (Jul 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
We followed our realtor to the house. If I do call, I won't give them my info and I will do it from a pay phone but surely this guy will know it was us....I just don't know what to do. I have to help these kids but I'm afraid of putting my own family at risk.

who cares if he suspects it was you--he won't really KNOW as calls are anonymous. I would DEFINETELY CALL NOW. Further, he will be arrested (depending on the sate) so he can't retaliate anyway


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Call.

I think it's really telling that on a board where people are *very* cautious about CPS, you are getting so many urges to call.

A lot of the things you mentioned by themselves wouldn't be cause, but all put together--something is "off".

Re: locks on doors, the house we moved into has locks on the outside of the doors that were children's rooms. Just the kind that keeps the knob from turning. We never bothered to change them because the knob-fixtures are so loose the locks don't work anymore.


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## yarngoddess (Dec 27, 2006)

I would call ASAP. I hope you have done so already







How sad....


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

I would call. That would give me a creepy feeling - I could not just ignore it!
And besides, isnt having locks on bedrooms doors - (including childrens) illegal for fire safety reasons, etc?


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## Tizzy (Mar 16, 2007)

I would call, no hesitation.
If nothing else, it's child endangerment due to the cleanliness (or lack thereof) that you have described.

We once looked at a house that had heavy duty locks on the bedroom doors (bedrooms that were clearly for children) but the previous occupants had already moved out. It was also a grow-op. I can only imagine...


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## MamaJenese (Aug 14, 2006)

All together it is just too wierd. I hope you called.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

I am the last person to say "call CPS", but I would call about this one.

Sheets on the windows are no big deal. I have sheets/blankets on the windows in my kid's rooms, because their window shades are worn out/broken, and I haven't had a chance to replace them.

I also have a lock on my fridge and my pantry. If I don't my kids will eat us out of house and home in a few days. I kid you not. My middle child, who has Autism, doesn't have the ability to stop when he is full, and will eat until he gets sick. He is also a little on the heavy side, so we are trying to help him watch what he eats.

(yes, my kids get plenty to eat and no, my son is not on some diet)

The locks on the bedrooms could be there for keeping others out, not locking kids in. The mess, alone, is kind of iffy.

But, if you feel creeped out about it, call.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

I would call. while it might not be anything, there could be other reasons, if it is something its serious. and you had a "feeling" I would trust that feeling.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I would call too, and I'm usually hesitant. Individually I wouldn't be freaked out, but everything else combined with the scratches on his face would make me call.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Oh my goodness I would have had my cell phone out right there in the driveway. That sounds like a horrible situation. Those poor children. Please call.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

for all you know the whole thing could be v. innocent. it sounds weird but nothing out there says anything to me. our own idea of normal makes us uncomfortable when we meet another ideal of normal. so your gut feeling and feeling of creepyness could be all out of place and there might be a perfectly good answer for the paddlocks, etc. messy house. no big deal. i wonder how the economy might be impacting them.

but when in doubt i would call. for my peace of mind. i would not call anonymously. i would call with my details so i can later call back and find out what happened. the main thing for myself would be to figure out was i wrong or was i right. were my instincts right or wrong. i myself have stereotyped people and had totally wrong gut feelings.


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## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

*I haven't read all the replies, I will after I post this update*

My dh and I talked about this last nite. We were both very upset by it. Not only seeing all of this, but the man's demeanor (sp?) was off and the vibes in that house were awful, I wouldn't have taken it if he gave it to me. Just everything together was too much. We decided to call last nite, my dh made the call. He called the police and they said they would do a welfare check. I'm not sure when or even if they found anything wrong. In my heart I know we did the right thing. I am definately not a "call CPS" type person but only in extreme conditions and IMO, this was extreme. I have never seen anything like that in my life and I don't want to again. It was horrible. I just hope that if something is going on, those kids are safe now and away from that man and if there isn't anything going on, then they are no worse for wear.

Thank you everyone for your opinions/insights/thoughts. This one was tough for us. My dh and I are "give people the benefit of the doubt" type but we just couldn't turn our backs on this one. I will let you know if I find out anything. (we are friends with our realtor so we might get some inside scoop)


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

good for you angie to be able to get out of the fear of protection for your family!!!!

i hope you do find out more about what is going on.


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

You did the right thing, Angie.


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Good job.


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## Emzachsmama (Apr 30, 2004)

I probably would have called too. Individually, those things wouldn't have raised any flags but put all together...well that's a different story.


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## guestmama9916 (Jun 24, 2006)

I have an autistic/mentally challenged teen dss (dh has primary custody so he is with us all the time). We have to pad lock the fridge and pantry. We have to lock my son's playroom and bedroom when he is gone to his dad's every other weekend because dss is sneaky (we joke he was a ninja in a previous life) and will make a huge mess or break toys if we turn our backs for a minute. He'll gorge himself on food/drinks as well if we do not keep them locked up. We don't lock him up obviously but we have to practically lock everything else up. So I can see the need for the pad locks in a situation with multiple special needs kids or just one very unruly one. We are fortunate that dss stays in his room at night for the most part and does not roam about the house. If he did, I'm not sure what our alternatives would be seeing how this would be completely unsafe since he could walk out the door. I'm glad we don't have this problem but I can see a desperate parent of a special needs child locking them in their room at night to ensure their safety. Heck, I've heard of parents of normal toddlers doing the same. I don't agree with it but it does seem to be a mainstream idea that many parents are OK with. Glad you called the police though so they can get to the bottom of it. *Call the police back and ask what they found out.*


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## phrogger (Oct 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saving_grace* 
I have an autistic/mentally challenged teen dss (dh has primary custody so he is with us all the time). We have to pad lock the fridge and pantry. We have to lock my son's playroom and bedroom when he is gone to his dad's every other weekend because dss is sneaky (we joke he was a ninja in a previous life) and will make a huge mess or break toys if we turn our backs for a minute. He'll gorge himself on food/drinks as well if we do not keep them locked up. We don't lock him up obviously but we have to practically lock everything else up. So I can see the need for the pad locks in a situation with multiple special needs kids or just one very unruly one. We are fortunate that dss stays in his room at night for the most part and does not roam about the house. If he did, I'm not sure what our alternatives would be seeing how this would be completely unsafe since he could walk out the door. I'm glad we don't have this problem but I can see a desperate parent of a special needs child locking them in their room at night to ensure their safety. Heck, I've heard of parents of normal toddlers doing the same. I don't agree with it but it does seem to be a mainstream idea that many parents are OK with. Glad you called the police though so they can get to the bottom of it. *Call the police back and ask what they found out.*

We do the same, locking everything that my step son can get into. He has chocked at night without us knowing from sneaking out, and we did have pad locks on doors so he couldn't sneak outside in the middle of the night, along with door alarms etc. ALL those things though, in my home are things I would have NO problem explaining to CPS if someone felt the need to call. (now we only lock up the food). My house also isn't a disgusting, filthy mess, well other then maybe the kids bedrooms, but those are things you can tell it is kids taking out all their toys vs. we are slobs and it is a health risk kwim?

My oldest son locks his bedroom door if he is gone and we have a key lock for it, to keep my step son out, but if that didn't work, I would use a pad lock too, but again, better to call and be safe, then sorry.

I also think you can get a feel for the family. Coming into my house you would know we aren't locking our kids ina closet or in their rooms as punishment, and really, I would probably mention "oh we have the locks on the doors because one of oru kids has a hard time minding his own business, BUT we will have the holes filled before we move. With a big smile on my face.


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## Aquafina (Oct 2, 2006)

I would have a friend or relative go back to the house and casually ask the man about the locks........The whole thing does sound creepy........I dont see why kids would have pad lock on the outside of the door....Sounds more like the pad lock was on the outside to lock people in.........

I mean the mess if this man is single men are messy........The scratches could be from a bar fight lol to a autistic child scratching,or even a out of contol child......

I would probbly feel the same way as you,the house sounds very creepy,wish you had a realtor link so we could see what it looks like.......


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

I'm glad you called the cops, OP. I would definitely call back and see what they have to say. Most likely THEY called CPS and the ball is now rolling, either to get the family some support services or to remove the kids. But I think you need to find out. (Finding out through your realtor friend would also be fine, the point is to put the issue to rest and know that the Powers That Be have been apprised of the situation).

Somebody who _shows a house_ that is filthy and full of padlocked doors is somebody who has utterly lost touch with appropriate human behavior. Maybe the only thing that has gone round the bend is their social graces. And maybe they have their kids chained to the bedposts. Somebody with authority needs to have a really thorough look at that house.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aquafina* 
I would have a friend or relative go back to the house and casually ask the man about the locks........The whole thing does sound creepy........*I dont see why kids would have pad lock on the outside of the door....Sounds more like the pad lock was on the outside to lock people in...*......

(bolding mine)..

I dont get this though. Why would you jump to that conclusion? Several people have posted in this thread reasons why the rooms might have been locked up from the outside. We are assuming that there were children INSIDE of those locked rooms...why? It just seems very strange to jump to that conclusion. Maybe the kids wanted to keep their crazy dad out of their stuff while they were out of the home. Maybe they want to keep their sibs out of their stuff. Is that such a crazy alternative possibility?

That being said, the whole thing DOES sound creepy, and i have no problem with calling someone to follow up. Better safe than sorry.

But i still kinda dont get why the OP didnt at least knock on the locked doors to find out of anyone was inside? (Oh...maybe they were bound and gagged...







) or ask to see inside the rooms (after all, wouldnt the owner expect to have to show the rooms to prospective buyers??)....maybe he didnt even know the girls had locked up their rooms?

If i was all by myself looking at this house....yeah, maybe i would have just got the heck out of there....but did you expect the crazy guy to kill all three of you if you asked to see the rooms? It seems like it would have been pretty simple to find out if kids were being held captive in those rooms yknow?

Katherine


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 

But i still kinda dont get why the OP didnt at least knock on the locked doors to find out of anyone was inside? (Oh...maybe they were bound and gagged...







) or ask to see inside the rooms (after all, wouldnt the owner expect to have to show the rooms to prospective buyers??)....maybe he didnt even know the girls had locked up their rooms?

Yeah, I thought about it later...maybe he said "be careful going into the girls' rooms" because they leave their toys everywhere and he's tripped over their stuff before. (Anyone ever tripped over a dollhouse or stepped on legos?)


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

If/when I go into a home that is filthy, smelly, cluttered beyond recognition, etc., I honestly come to question the sanity/mentality of the owner(s). With that said, adding padded locks on doors, cuts on a face, and curt responses, I can understand the OP's creepy feelings and thought process. These are just my feelings and thoughts based upon what was written, though.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

There are plenty of reasons there could be pad locks on the doors. some of them logical and some just plain evil. I am generally the last person to call CPS but I would have called freaking 911 after seeing that. even someone with a violent special needs child would likely have the foresight to know that when showing a house this is going to freak somep people out and would expect to do some explaining. and best case scenario - that is the reason for all of this. maybe he needs some help and can now be hooked up with the resources he needs. worst case scenario - he is abusing them and the kids need help.

and no regular door locks would not keep possessions safe from siblings if they were in the mood to to get to them. my dd could get through door nob locks in 10 seconds by the time she was 2 1/2. it would just give us a little heads up. a door lock with a key would be harder and more expensive to install than a simple pad lock.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mulvah* 
If/when I go into a home that is filthy, smelly, cluttered beyond recognition, etc., I honestly come to question the sanity/mentality of the owner(s). With that said, adding padded locks on doors, cuts on a face, and curt responses, I can understand the OP's creepy feelings and thought process. These are just my feelings and thoughts based upon what was written, though.

Was there a second post that mentioned filthiness and smelliness? From the OP, I got an impression of a great deal of clutter, but I didn't notice any mention of filth.

I do think this situation sounds off, but a bunch of stuff lying around doesn't seem like a big deal, imo...even if it was _very_ cluttered. My dad is/was a total hoarder, and he certainly wasn't even remotely abusive.


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## BookGoddess (Nov 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mulvah* 
If/when I go into a home that is filthy, smelly, cluttered beyond recognition, etc., I honestly come to question the sanity/mentality of the owner(s). With that said, adding padded locks on doors, cuts on a face, and curt responses, I can understand the OP's creepy feelings and thought process. These are just my feelings and thoughts based upon what was written, though.

Same here. The OP got a very strong weird vibe from the owner and she did the right thing by listening to her intuition. She shouldn't have been knocking on doors or trying to see if there were kids inside. It's not up to her to investigate. She just needs to alert the authorities who do that kind of thing for a living.


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## Funny Face (Dec 7, 2006)

FTR I believe that all calls to CPS are kept confidential- they do not tell the person under review who has called in a complaint. Also if CPS is to check up they will notify you of the outcome.

As far as the police though, I'm not sure how that works.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moodyred01* 
FTR I believe that all calls to CPS are kept confidential- they do not tell the person under review who has called in a complaint. Also if CPS is to check up they will notify you of the outcome.

As far as the police though, I'm not sure how that works.

Yeah, I wouldn't think they would be like "Oh so and so reported you" because I'm sure they'd get very few calls...


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Was there a second post that mentioned filthiness and smelliness? From the OP, I got an impression of a great deal of clutter, but I didn't notice any mention of filth.

I do think this situation sounds off, but a bunch of stuff lying around doesn't seem like a big deal, imo...even if it was _very_ cluttered. My dad is/was a total hoarder, and he certainly wasn't even remotely abusive.

You're absolutely right; she did not mention scent. However, with food stacked, I suppose I took the liberty of using the word smell. Filth is defined as foul; unpleasant uncleanliness, so in this situation, the word filth seems to fit in with the OP's description.

I believe the OP did the right thing in following up on this, specifically since she felt something was off. There is always going to be that line and I think it is different for everyone.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smithie* 
Somebody with authority needs to have a really thorough look at that house.

But what can they do without a warrant? What's the point of a welfare check if the guy says everything is fine and doesn't let them in?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mulvah* 
You're absolutely right; she did not mention scent. However, with food stacked, I suppose I took the liberty of using the word smell. Filth is defined as foul; unpleasant uncleanliness, so in this situation, the word filth seems to fit in with the OP's description.

I believe the OP did the right thing in following up on this, specifically since she felt something was off. There is always going to be that line and I think it is different for everyone.

I think she did the right thing, too...and I _very_ rarely think that calling CPS is the right thing.

Knowing the guy was selling the house, I had just formed a mental picture of everything everywhere, and assumed (possibly incorrectly) that the food everywhere was cans and boxes, yk?


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## Aquafina (Oct 2, 2006)

Quote:

I dont see why kids would have pad lock on the outside of the door....Sounds more like the pad lock was on the outside to lock people in.........

lol QueenJane









Quote:

I dont get this though. Why would you jump to that conclusion? Several people have posted in this thread reasons why the rooms might have been locked up from the outside. We are assuming that there were children INSIDE of those locked rooms...why? It just seems very strange to jump to that conclusion. Maybe the kids wanted to keep their crazy dad out of their stuff while they were out of the home. Maybe they want to keep their sibs out of their stuff. Is that such a crazy alternative possibility?

The way I was seeing it is if I was a teen and wanted my privacy I would lock the door from the inside to keep others from bugging me while in the room.....I was never thinking that they could have just locked it from the outside to keep people out to stay out of there stuff(sounds like alot of work)..Thats where I got to thinking well someone must be locking them in there







plus op said that there were fingernail scratches on the man kinda creepy imo....I do agree with you though if I was there I would have asked why the doors were padlocked.....Sorry







I was not thinking the same as you







I have been known to be a ditz


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
But what can they do without a warrant? What's the point of a welfare check if the guy says everything is fine and doesn't let them in?


If the guy doesn't let them in and says everything is fine, the case stays open. The police (or child protective services) will question neighbors and anyone else they can contact who deals with the family (extended family, teachers etc). They can also go to a judge to obtain a court order, which often will get put through based simply on the refusal alone.

(You certainly can refuse cops or CPS without a warrant or court order, but it is better to have them come back at a better time so that they can prove you have food for the kids and their environment is safe and healthy.)

http://www.vahomeschoolers.org/issues/cps.asp


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Really? I assumed that if he doesn't let them in (his right) and says everything is fine, that they have to take his word for it, and are done.


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## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Knowing the guy was selling the house, I had just formed a mental picture of everything everywhere, and assumed (possibly incorrectly) that the food everywhere was cans and boxes, yk?

Stuff was everywhere, you name it, it was there. There was poop and a tampon left in one of the toilets with the lid left up. Someone was sleeping on a blanket on the concrete basement floor. The bathtubs looked like something pooped in them too. The floors were covered in dog slobber and stuff that I don't even know what it was. It was filthy.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

well thats sick!!

creepy children stuff aside . . . how on earth do they expect to sell this house?


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## pinksprklybarefoot (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
Stuff was everywhere, you name it, it was there. There was poop and a tampon left in one of the toilets with the lid left up. Someone was sleeping on a blanket on the concrete basement floor. The bathtubs looked like something pooped in them too. The floors were covered in dog slobber and stuff that I don't even know what it was. It was filthy.

And the realtor actually thought that she was going to sell this house? Aside from the fact that I would never buy a house where I couldn't go in all of the rooms, the condition of the house sounds as if it were no where near what someone would want if they were selling it. I am assuming it must have been priced insanely low.

This thread has really given me the creeps. I hope the authorities take a careful look around.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
Stuff was everywhere, you name it, it was there. There was poop and a tampon left in one of the toilets with the lid left up. Someone was sleeping on a blanket on the concrete basement floor. The bathtubs looked like something pooped in them too. The floors were covered in dog slobber and stuff that I don't even know what it was. It was filthy.

Okay - that's just gross. I wasn't picturing anything like that.

It sounds like the guy has something wrong with him, whether he's abusing his kids or not. A rational person couldn't possibly think he was going to sell a house in this kind of condition. I hate the whole "make the place look like nobody lives there" thing in house sales, and even I know better than to leave it like _that_. YUCK!


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## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pinksprklybarefoot* 
I am assuming it must have been priced insanely low.



It was low but hey, it's worth a look right? At least that is what we thought. In the advertisement it said it needed a little TLC. Right, that house would have been better off being bulldozed and started over. There was no trim around any of the windows, doors, or floors all the floors needed to be replaced, the walls needed to be redone (not just painted), the doors had to be replaced b/c of the padlocks being drilled into the frames, the basement had no ceiling, you could see all the plumbing, etc. In the bonus room there was cigarette butts spilled out across the carpet and someone was putting them out on the carpet as well. It was a disaster, I could not imagine living in a house like that.

Quote:

And the realtor actually thought that she was going to sell this house?
That was my realtor's question. She is our realtor but was not the realtor on this house so it was her first time too. She was just as shocked as we were. She had the exact same instinct that my dh and I both had. I don't know if anything has happened or not. I just hope that this man and his children get the help that they need.


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

^I've viewed a home like that once too. Insanely low price, horrible disgusting and disturbing insides.

The basement was faux walled off and covered in tin foil. We weren't allowed down there alone and the guy kept saying "no opening doors" "just a quick peek."

Smelled like meth. We were angry at their attitude (you want to sell this house?) and angry that the realtor didn't warn us. We had our kids with us and it was vile.

They had no kids though so I didn't call the police though I wanted to just based on the smell of cookery.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Porcelain Interior* 
^I've viewed a home like that once too. Insanely low price, horrible disgusting and disturbing insides.

The basement was faux walled off and covered in tin foil. We weren't allowed down there alone and the guy kept saying "no opening doors" "just a quick peek."

Smelled like meth. We were angry at their attitude (you want to sell this house?) and angry that the realtor didn't warn us. We had our kids with us and it was vile.

They had no kids though so I didn't call the police though I wanted to just based on the smell of cookery.

Oh, next time please do!!! Meth labs give off toxic gases which can spread outside the house, and also, they are extremely flammable (like, explosive.) Incredibly dangerous.


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## Aquafina (Oct 2, 2006)

Quote:

n the bonus room there was cigarette butts spilled out across the carpet and someone was putting

OH my that a safety hazard ......With all the stuff you say is in there pad locked doors and cigs being put out on the carpet very very scary combo.....


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## Anglyn (Oct 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Porcelain Interior* 
^I've viewed a home like that once too. Insanely low price, horrible disgusting and disturbing insides.

The basement was faux walled off and covered in tin foil. We weren't allowed down there alone and the guy kept saying "no opening doors" "just a quick peek."

Smelled like meth. We were angry at their attitude (you want to sell this house?) and angry that the realtor didn't warn us. We had our kids with us and it was vile.

They had no kids though so I didn't call the police though I wanted to just based on the smell of cookery.

How do you know what meth smells like? LoL, seriously, I wouldnt know how to tell!


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I always heard it smelled like an overpowering cat pee smell.









YK, with no cats to be seen anywhere?


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## guestmama9916 (Jun 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionTigerBear* 
Oh, next time please do!!! Meth labs give off toxic gases which can spread outside the house, and also, they are extremely flammable (like, explosive.) Incredibly dangerous.

Yes, please call if you suspect meth. A little girl near where I live drank acid that was put in sprite bottle by her meth cooking cousin. Even if kids don't live there, they could visit or the neighbors could have kids. Here's the news story:

http://www.abc3340.com/news/stories/0209/596672.html


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anglyn* 
How do you know what meth smells like? LoL, seriously, I wouldnt know how to tell!

I know what it smells like, it smells like my dad's extended side of the family- whom we were NEVER allowed to be around, though I had a couple very brief exposures to them.

And when I was a rebelling teenager we knew some people with a party pad and they over time got sucked into the meth culture, which is when we promptly departed.

Meth is vile and disgusting. You cannot ever forget how it smells, whether you smelled someone sweating it out, smoking it or cooking it.


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## Peachthief (Nov 19, 2008)

We had a case near here where a little girl was being locked in her room. There were over 100 cats in the house which reeked of cat urine. She was known to steal food at school. CPS was called, on multiple occasions, but would do nothing because she was getting one meal a day and had no signs of physical abuse.
She was eventually strangled in her home. Her stepbrother is on trial for murder, and her father and stepmother for child endangerment.


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## Anglyn (Oct 25, 2004)

God thats awful! I know CPS here says that the children have to lose a significant amount of weight before they can get involved. Starving is apparently hard to prove, but 100 cats and being locked up should have been a big clue that something wasnt right.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

OP, you absolutely did the right thing.


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## shanniesue2 (Jul 4, 2007)

As for the state of the house.... I wonder if it's a foreclosure issue... sometimes when people forclose and are evicted from their house, they will trash it just before they leave.... just to get back at.... well whoever they perceive to be at fault, I guess.

I know that around here, there have been a few stories where someone lost their house due to foreclsure and they flooded the place before they left.

But I'm glad you made the phone call, OP... too many things seem off in that situation. I hope all the children are okay and that everything works out for the best.


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