# WHY do people feel it is necessary to fight with children about food?



## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Seriously. It's pointless.

An example or two in a book I'm reading revolved around food.

Today at the dinner table, my mom and dh started the nag-fest on the kids, who were goofing around. (Stop that, eat something besides cucumber slices, etc)

It's just so NOT an issue for me. I looked at my two oldest and said "If you continue to mess around here, I will take your plate and you can be excused."

A minute later, 6/yo was hanging a cucumber slice off his ear. While someone else started in a nag, I shot them a *look*....picked up my child's plate and said "You may be excused. I will save your plate here at the stove for when you are hungry. There will not be a different meal tonight."

as is typical, there were choices, dh had made chicken, and sides of a pinto bean dish, green beans, corn, and the mentioned cucumber slices and lettuce salad.

It's just not an issue for me if my child chooses to only eat cucumber slices and dressing, or little to nothing at all at that time. Their plate can be saved, it takes a couple minutes to reheat a plate or they can just eat it that way.

(but I do have a rule that the TV is not an option during mealtime.  that means you don't get up and go to it.)

My response got us out of the unpleasant (to me, and to the others by their complaint level though they don't come right out and say that's what they think) experience of trying to eat dinner with kids who are not hungry and goofing off and having to make them clean up whatever mess they made while playing with dinner.

Either they will learn not to goof off because they *want* to be at the table, or they'll not enjoy cold/reheated food.....or those two things will not matter in the least to them, but they will be eating according to what they need, not because someone is telling them it's time. Win-win.

WHY is it even an issue to try to make a kid eat?


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## trekkingirl (Dec 2, 2009)

I really don't understand that either. I could have written your post word for word. I know with my little ones, ages 7 and almost 4, they eat more when they are growing. If my kids aren't going through a growth spurt they pick at their food, but when they are growing they clear their plates and ask for more later.

I am one of those eaters that needs peace at the table. I will excuse my kids too if their presence is unproductive. As with you, they can't leave to go watch TV. A book or play time in their rooms usually works.

My younger brother used to eat really slowly when he was a kid and I remember him sitting at the table for over an hour because we weren't allowed to leave the table until we finished our plates.

I work at a grocery store and I see so many kids ask their parent if they can try this or that. More often than not the parent says, no you wouldn't like that. Then they complain about their kids being picky eaters. I don't know what to think of that???


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## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

No clue, eat, don't eat, whatever. As long as you understand you're not eating M&Ms instead of real food it's all good in our house it's all good.


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## dalia (Sep 3, 2007)

I think people just basically do what they were taught as children and many of us were scolded, forced or manipulated into eating when we didn't want to. My parents were pretty bad about forcing me to eat with threats and such, but they grew up in a very different time and in a third world country where food was scarce. I really try not to but sometimes I catch myself trying to get my toddler to eat more than I know he wants. I'm only human and just trying my best to change the cycle. I think everyone is just doing what they know..


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## Eresh (Jul 17, 2007)

Hmmm .. DS1 has always hung out around 99th percentile for height and 15-20th percentile for weight. I'm not *too* worried since that's also his father's build, but today, for example, he ate 2oz of yogurt for lunch. He did have a fairly big breakfast -- about 1/3 C of hot cereal and a little bit of milk. Another big thing recently is only eating carbs and protein and getting constipated. I don't hassle him about food though I do ask him to eat his fruit to help with his poopies. I certainly understand WHY parents get wrapped up in trying to get a kid to eat something. I think the fighting comes from not knowing when/how to disengage.

My parents were definitely of the school of forcing us to eat. I didn't discover I actually liked broccoli until I was out of the house in college since my mother only prepared it by nuking the block o frozen broccoli in the microwave until it became this odd combination of slimy and tough (before the microwave she cooked it to death on the stove with similar results). I eventually found out I could choke it down by covering it in ketchup and swallowing pieces without chewing them. And then they made fun of how much ketchup I put on the broccoli.  Ahh the memories. Anyhow ... I do see part of my upbringing in how *wastage* is a big trigger for me. I basically cook for myself and DS1 since DH is never home and doesn't eat what I cook when he is home. So when DS1 turns his nose up to something that won't keep and will basically end up in the trash because he won't eat it, it really gets to me. It also doesn't help that I'm trying to loose weight so the wastage thing ends up with me eating a lot of extra calories I really don't need.


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## lookatreestar (Apr 14, 2008)

i really cringe when i hear the "eat this, then you can have that" (usually a sweet). for some reason it just isn't my style.


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## tankgirl73 (Jun 10, 2007)

In *general* I'm in complete agreement. We don't fight with our 4yo dd (much) about food issues. We did BLW, she eats well, sometimes -- like around holidays -- we have a lot of junk food in the house and she gorges on that, but she's learned that by example  and she's actually a more responsible 'healthy eater" than I am heh...

But my 12yo DS has various issues related to ADHD and Asperger's, and the meds he's on reduce his appetite. He's already skin and bones, he's a competitive gymnast so he's all lean muscle, not a drip of fat on him anywhere. With his meds, we have to monitor his weight that he doesn't lose weight.

Add on to that, he's and incredibly fussy eater. Then he'll get it into his head that he wants (for example) macaroni today, and NOTHING will make him budge (that's the Asperger's), even the fact that we don't have any, and we do have many other of his favorite foods in the house.

He'll go hours and hours without eating -- choosing to play or do video games or whatever -- doesn't come to supper claiming that he's 'not hungry' -- then suddenly at bedtime "I'm STAAAAAAAAAARVING!!!!"

So in his case, it's NOT enough to just make sure he has some choices then trust him to eat what he needs. He doesn't. And when he hasn't eaten, his behavior really, really deteriorates. Making a vicious circle. He's hungry, so he's not thinking straight, so he fights about food... he'll only accept the one specific food he's decided he NEEEEEEEEEDS and refuses anything else offered.

I often end up doing the thing of "you can eat whatever you want after you finish the plate prepared for you", and he'll come back a few hours later and indeed finish the plate with no problems, then (if available) he'll have the one thing he wanted... (but often it's a thing that just wasn't available in the first place). But the intervening hours are HELL. I can't just let him have the thing he wants, because as I said it often is something just plain not doable. Either we don't have it or it would require huge preparation on my part, which I don't have time for... And he'll throw a tantrum about that, tantruming because he's hungry.

The easy solution is just to make sure that he snacks frequently enough to not get hungry in the first place, but he often refuses, insisting he's not hungry.

So food IS often a battle in our house, and I'm still hoping to find a 'gentle' solution... but it's not just about psychology, it is a physical issue with him. His meds make him feel not hungry, even though he needs food, and intellectually he knows this but isn't emotionally strong enough yet to deal with that and just eat anyway, and I can't force him to eat.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Well, nutrition is important to me. So yeah, the kids are required to eat fruit and vegetables and good protein every day. They tend to prefer carbs, though. So at our house, you'll hear "Can I have another slice of bread?" followed by "Yes, after you eat some vegetables." Or "Can I have some more fruit?" might get "You haven't had any protein--how about some tofu?" If they say they aren't hungry, that's okay--I never force anyone to eat. But they aren't allowed to just eat what they request/want most or it would pretty much be bread, cheese, and fruit (and sweets, if available) and not much else. I wouldn't say we are high-conflict on the issue--it's really low on our list of problems, honestly--but we do manage what they eat.

This Christmas we went out to eat as a family with other family. and my 2yo was feeling grouchy and distracted and ate literally one bite of dinner. The other kids ate well, however, and when the end of dinner rolled around talk of dessert came up. Well, so, he wanted ice cream like everyone else. We don't do dessert related to meals at home--treats happen rather rarely and at random, usually apart from meals--but in this case, I did insist that he eat some of the dinner he didn't touch before getting ice cream. He didn't really protest much, but I got disapproving comments from relatives--"Oh, just let him have the ice cream...who cares." Well, I care.

30% of American children are obese or overweight, and the vast majority eat far fewer servings of healthy foods than is recommended. I care about their health, now and in the future. That's why I "fight" with them, though I wouldn't call it fighting 98% of the time.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

some parents like to control their children and show their dominance


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *peaceful_mama*
> 
> A minute later, 6/yo was hanging a cucumber slice off his ear. While someone else started in a nag, I shot them a *look*....picked up my child's plate and said "You may be excused. I will save your plate here at the stove for when you are hungry. There will not be a different meal tonight."


If I did that my kid would just get up after 4 minutes every dinner time. Not acceptable for us! Now I do make him leave the table if he can't behave. But I don't save the plate and really it's not a reasonable solution for us every day (to just let him leave when he's done sitting).


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## mamakah (Nov 5, 2008)

This is us. If I let DS eat just what he wanted off his plate then he would only eat bread, pasta, rice, etc for every meal. Now, I don't serve him bread on his plate at first. When he asks for bread, I say "If you eat 3 bites of your vegetables and two bites of meat I'll grab you a slice of bread." It's what works for us. He still has a choice, he can choose not to eat his veggies and meat, but he won't eat bread either. DS isn't hungry in the evenings. He eats all day, is starving in the morning, but at dinner time he's just not hungry. I keep this in mind when he doesn't want to eat what is on his plate and won't force it. But, if he's being picky and just wants the carbs, that's a whole different story.


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## dalia (Sep 3, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sharlla*
> 
> some parents like to control their children and show their dominance


I don't really think we can make a blanket statement like this unless we are in the parent's shoes. Every child is different and every parent is different and MOST parents just love their children and want what's best for them.


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## MamieCole (Jun 1, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> Well, nutrition is important to me. So yeah, the kids are required to eat fruit and vegetables and good protein every day. They tend to prefer carbs, though. So at our house, you'll hear "Can I have another slice of bread?" followed by "Yes, after you eat some vegetables." Or "Can I have some more fruit?" might get "You haven't had any protein--how about some tofu?" If they say they aren't hungry, that's okay--I never force anyone to eat. But they aren't allowed to just eat what they request/want most or it would pretty much be bread, cheese, and fruit (and sweets, if available) and not much else. I wouldn't say we are high-conflict on the issue--it's really low on our list of problems, honestly--but we do manage what they eat.
> 
> ...


This is pretty much what happens in our house w/DS1.


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## tonttu (Dec 24, 2010)

For us , the best way to go about it , is , you are not allowed to goof around , if you don´t want to eat , you can get up , but there is no food until next mealtime .

You have to try one bite , if you still don´t like it , leave it , but I´m not a short order cook , I make balanced meals for everybody and I put THAT food on their plates . My hope is , hat one day (since appetites change) they will eat something , they didn´t eat before .

If you put food on the plate yourself , you have to finish it , which stopped my now 10-year-old to pile on mountains he couldn´t eat , but if I put it on , you don´t have to .

Of course , there are times , when it´s difficult , but overall , for us , it works


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tonttu*
> 
> For us , the best way to go about it , is , you are not allowed to goof around , if you don´t want to eat , you can get up , but there is no food until next mealtime .
> 
> ...


HOW do you do that?? I have tried and tried with my son. even getting really ugly about it. Long protracted times at the table, putting him in his room etc (all one-offs and not anything I'm proud of). But he will.not.try a new food and gets himself so worked up that if he were to try it he'd gag immediately. He's 4.5 and it makes me want to take a hostage, I swear.


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## dalia (Sep 3, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D_McG*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Lol. Don't take any hostages! If I were u I would just give up making an issue about it and offer new foods but don't worry about whether he tries it or not. Just keep offering and then maybe some day a miracle will happen.


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## academama (Sep 26, 2008)

We've instituted a "tasting plate"--a small bite of each dish. Each child has to taste everything and then gets to decide what he/she wants more of.

I don't like the idea of forcing a child to eat anything. And they always have the option of not tasting things if they're not hungry. But I was just at the end of my rope with "I want this!" followed by "Noooo....I don't WANT it!" (They're 4 and 2.) This makes me feel better, because they're tasting the food (I work hard to make a healthy meal plan and prepare tasty, nutritious food; they don't have to like it but it frankly makes me furious if they won't try it after asking for it). And it reduces conflict because there is a standard of behavior that's easy to understand, and because they feel in control because they decide what they want more of.

I try not to phrase it as "you have to eat x to get more y" (although of course that was inevitable the first day or two). Instead, I say, "You need to know what we're eating in order to decide what you want and how much, so you need to try it." They're small bites; I don't care if they eat the whole bite or just a teeny nibble. I just want them exposed to it.

Without this, my son in particular would eat only carbohydrates. Seriously, the boy is breadaholic.

I might add that I do not expect them to eat things that I know they dislike, but they are both adventurous eaters by nature and have eaten/will eat almost anything.


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## academama (Sep 26, 2008)

p.s. In response to your first question--why people fight with their kids over food--there are a lot of reasons. Some of them are good reasons and others are not. This dynamic differs a lot from family to family, I think.

In my case, the main thing that has caused conflict is waste: both of my kids have had a tendency to say "I want X" and then not eat it. If it goes to waste, that's something we can't afford. I've started asking them to serve themselves (or to tell me exactly how much they want) and that has helped too.


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## tonttu (Dec 24, 2010)

Yes , exactly , my youngest son is quite a personality and especially at that age , there were moments , when only a mother´s love would save him









But seriously , just be persistent , even at his age he can understand some rules . If he knows , that this is how it gets done at the dinner table , no matter what he tries , eventually he will comply . Maybe not always , but the way I look at it , is , one good time is one time not bad .

Nobody starves voluntarily and even though it hurts me to put that uneaten cauliflower/fish/tangerine/whatever in the trash , one day he will pick up his fork and try it . And if he never eats a particular food , so what !

I hate eggplant , makes me sick , but that´s how people are . You expose him to good , nutritional food and that´s what he learns . My others didn´t always eat everything either , but there simply was no choice and I never played the "if you finish this , you get candy" . No !

This is , what we are having , if you don´t eat , you are not hungry and there is always the next meal .

Always remember , even if it takes some (or a lot of) effort now , in the end , you will win , if you stick to it and it will make your life easier , when he´s older . Because I believe , laying down the law with a 4-year-old over a food issue is A LOT easier than doing it with a 15-year-old


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Food is one of my many "not worth the power struggle" issues. I don't see any benefit in fighting about food.

Food is food in our house. No food is "better" or "worse" than another. I am blessed to be able to keep my home stocked with healthy, nutritious food that is available for all of us to eat. Nothing is "off limits". I cook a wide variety of meats, veggies, grains, etc but make sure to include a few faves in the rotation each night. No one goes hungry even if it means them grabbing something out of the fridge.

We don't bribe, beg, cajole, require one bite, threaten, nag etc.







Food is usually family style but sometime plated in the kitchen. Anyone can eat (or not) as they desire.

Meal time is family time in our home. Food is secondary. The main point is to spend time together, No TV, maybe the radio or some CD's playing softly. I like a nice table and have lots of fun place mats and napkins. I like to light (unscented) candles. When my son was out of high chair dinner lasted maybe 5 minutes, LOL but the focus was a pleasant time. He might have gotten down after 5 minutes but we would continue eating and enjoying the meal. Sometime he would come back and join us, sometimes not. He is now 9 and we are usually a the table for about 30 minutes.

Probably the only real "rules" we have is you must be polite ( I don't care for that, Mom. not eeewwwww!), the use of proper manners (napkins on the lap, proper use of silverware, etc, four on the floor, no elbows). Other than its pretty relaxed.

So no I have no idea why so many make such a big issue out of food/eating!


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## fairejour (Apr 15, 2004)

Well, my daughter is actually in therapy to deal with her inability to eat certain foods. She has sensory issues and she can not recognize feeling hungry. She goes way too long without eating, and then becomes ill. Her body can't make the connection between being hungry, and feeling bad. And then, add on top, that she has a physical aversion to many foods. Her body learned as a baby that food was not safe (NICU plus reflux issues) so her body panics when food is offered to her.

So.....no, I am not trying to "control her". But yeah, I will beg, and plead and sometimes end up yelling about food. And if you stood outside of feeding therapy, you would think that we have tied her down and are torturing her! (But, in actuality, we have a spoon, a dot of tomato soup and a napkin, and she is perfectly free to say no and more on) Her body actually fears food....it is a crazy world!


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

I have a kid who will refuse to eat for 18+ hours and then curl up in a ball on the floor and cry, probably from crashing. I kind of have to coerce him to eat. We don't know everyone's struggles. We don't know everyone's kids. We don't know if they have food issues they are passing to their kids or if their kids are truly odd when it comes to regulating their food intake.

I never thought I'd be the one bribing my kid to eat but he spent the first 2 years of his life vomiting pretty much all solid food...he's a little reluctant to eat now, which is understandable. I do what I have to do. You might meet me once and think I'm crazy for trying to get him to eat this or that because he is almost 6, a solid 43 lbs, and LOOKS healthy. But you haven't had to beg him to eat while he was laying on the floor with no energy to even stand up. He's 43 lbs *because* I bribe him to eat.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

It is getting to the point that one feels a need to post a disclaimer on every post. I know I am speaking for the OP but I *assumed* she meant the average child. Not a child who has been diagnosed with a eating disorder or has other medical/pharma issues that do not permit them to eat or allow them to eat enough. If you (the general you, no particular poster) and your DR/Homeopathic Practitioner/etc advocate force feeding your child or the other means noted on the post then of course you are going to do whatever it take to keep your child healthy.

The OP (as did I) spoke of our own personal experiences in our homes. This was NOT one of those posts "Agh- You would NOT believe what I saw in (insert big box retailer/restaurant/playground here)" about some mom forcing chicken nuggets down her kids throat or begging them to drink their organic, super green smoothie.

And for what is worth my son does have SPD with major food/texture issues and I have never had to threaten him, scream at him, beg/bribe/cajole him. So I am speaking only from what *I* know and it should be taken only as that. I am not a doctor or psychologist or an OT, just some stranger on the Internet. YMMV


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HollyBearsMom*
> 
> It is getting to the point that one feels a need to post a disclaimer on every post. I know I am speaking for the OP but I *assumed* she meant the average child. Not a child who has been diagnosed with a eating disorder or has other medical/pharma issues that do not permit them to eat or allow them to eat enough. If you (the general you, no particular poster) and your DR/Homeopathic Practitioner/etc advocate force feeding your child or the other means noted on the post then of course you are going to do whatever it take to keep your child healthy.
> 
> ...


No one has diagnosed my kid. For all intents and purposes, he's completely normal. I was just pointing out that no one really even knows other people's situations so why complain about what you see? I mean, it's one thing if you see someone beating their kid, but bribing them to eat? The OP asked why, and many of us answered. For a lot of kids, it's not as simple as "they'll eat when they are hungry".


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Shauna- just curious (seriously not snarky) why you have not had him diagnosed or is it that they can't find anything medically wrong? A child who "spent the first 2 years of his life vomiting solid food" and today continues to have an aversion to food, who will refuse to eat for 18 hours to point of making himself ill sounds really really serious.

My son's clinic deals with a lot of food aversions due to Aspergers, Autism, SPF, SID, as well ones suffering a variety of trauma (which throwing up for 2 years certainly is, poor kid) and a number of the kids see talk therapist as well because while some therapy can work to help overcome the difficult sensation of actually eating/chewing/swallowing in many other cases it can be due to control, anxiety even fear. If he is now 5 and 1/2 it doesn't sound like something will just outgrow.


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HollyBearsMom*
> 
> Shauna- just curious (seriously not snarky) why you have not had him diagnosed or is it that they can't find anything medically wrong? A child who "spent the first 2 years of his life vomiting solid food" and today continues to have an aversion to food, who will refuse to eat for 18 hours to point of making himself ill sounds really really serious.
> 
> My son's clinic deals with a lot of food aversions due to Aspergers, Autism, SPF, SID, as well ones suffering a variety of trauma (which throwing up for 2 years certainly is, poor kid) and a number of the kids see talk therapist as well because while some therapy can work to help overcome the difficult sensation of actually eating/chewing/swallowing in many other cases it can be due to control, anxiety even fear. If he is now 5 and 1/2 it doesn't sound like something will just outgrow.


Not for lack of trying, believe me. He was a healthy breastfed baby, nursed well. When I told the doc about vomiting solids, he said he was fine because he was gaining. When we got WIC when he was 2 1/2 I explained it to them and they said to go back to the docs. We did allergy tests which turned up nothing. I went back again when he was 4, they said he wasn't underweight, again we got no help. Again when he was 5 1/2. They gave us zantac. He can't swallow it. He gags on anything peppermint flavor. We had it flavored grape and he can still taste the peppermint. I'm going to call again probably this week. He's sloooooowly getting better so I'm not trying as hard as I could be I suppose. He ate by 2 pm today (as opposed to 4 or 5) and didn't end up crying from crashing...that's a successful day for us. I suspect reflux, but it could all be behavioral/sensory. But when the docs just take one look at him, see he isn't underweight and brush off my concerns, there's not a whole lot I can do.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

I am so sorry. How horribly frustrating for you.









Have you had full work up for SID? Can you see a behaviorist? Not sure where you live but our clinic is wonderful!


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trekkingirl*
> 
> I work at a grocery store and I see so many kids ask their parent if they can try this or that. More often than not the parent says, no you wouldn't like that. Then they complain about their kids being picky eaters. I don't know what to think of that???


I don't understand it either. Now if it was a large box of cereal in a type that I know I'm probably not going to eat, I wouldn't buy it for them to try. My kids go through brief phases of a few days out of a week where they'll actually eat whatever cereal it is they asked for, then they don't want it. So if it's not a box of cornflakes with Mario on it that I might use for other recipes, or Rice Krispies...or something that I would likely eat too, I'm not willing to have it around or waste it.

But I would not use the line "You wouldn't like that." I would say that it's a pretty big box and I don't know if we'll really want that much, let's find another treat. (I also do not, as a general rule, buy multicolored, chocolate, sugary type cereals. So far, my kids don't even ask for them, but if that ever started, I guess I would let them have it for a birthday treat, or because I found a *small* box on sale that would last the 3 of them one or two servings each.)

Even at the table--today we had some buffalo wings. Kids asked if they were hot. I said "I don't know, try it and see what you think" because *I* can't tell them what their tastebuds think! (I'm also willing to finish the rest of a one-bite burn-out wing :lol) All 3 kids liked these particular wings, which were not particularly hot compared to the ones we get from takeout--but the 2 year old was eating the inside, not the skin with the spicy part.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

you'll see I told mine he could leave because he was playing rather than eating, but that the same plate of food was going to be his option when he complains about being hungry later.

Also, if a child chooses, as mine was, to come to the table and eat only cucumber, their option later is going to be whatever leftovers are available from the dinner or in the fridge. With 6 of us eating at the majority of our meals, and they're taught to allow everyone to have the option of taking some of each item first before they can take seconds....they're typically not going to end up full (at least not for long) if they choose that they're only hungry for that one item. I don't get up in the middle of the meal and chop up another cucumber, if there is one, unless there are others who also want more--and are eating the other items available as well. 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> Well, nutrition is important to me. So yeah, the kids are required to eat fruit and vegetables and good protein every day. They tend to prefer carbs, though. So at our house, you'll hear "Can I have another slice of bread?" followed by "Yes, after you eat some vegetables." Or "Can I have some more fruit?" might get "You haven't had any protein--how about some tofu?" If they say they aren't hungry, that's okay--I never force anyone to eat. But they aren't allowed to just eat what they request/want most or it would pretty much be bread, cheese, and fruit (and sweets, if available) and not much else. I wouldn't say we are high-conflict on the issue--it's really low on our list of problems, honestly--but we do manage what they eat.
> 
> ...


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## Lauren82 (Feb 26, 2007)

I don't understand why people fight with children about food either. If the kids don't want to eat something, fine. I will not be a short order cook for anyone, not even DH. If they start fooling around at the dinner table, they get one warning before they are asked to leave.


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## justmama (Dec 24, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sharlla*
> 
> some parents like to control their children and show their dominance


yep. but some of us engage the fight and "control" and "dominate" because our child would eat bread products at every single meal and bread products only. And then you would blame us for our child being "unhealthy" or "overweight" so really we are just darned if we do and darned if we don't. that's a really judgemental statement. not really very gentle of you. some of us raised our children in the hopes they would love veggies and we did everything "right" and still ended up with a kid who ate only bread products. so lay off. it's not always about control and dominance. and it's not always black and white. i'm not mean and i don't force my kids to do anything but i am not a short order cook, nor do i serve meals whenever they FEEL like sitting at the table, and i'm not going to allow a young child to eat only carbs because that's what she enjoys.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Yes, I was referring to situations involving typical children such as my own, who do not have any special needs revolving around food. And the question in my house probably could be more appropriately narrowed down to "WHY would anyone want to spend a mealtime nagging at the kids?" I've noticed that when my kids are actually hungry, they eat. When they are not hungry, they goof off. Also, when they are hungry, they suddenly become much less particular about what they will eat.  So it's just totally not an issue to me to take their plate away if they don't seem to be hungry. Or to say that it is fine if they only want to eat two cucumber slices, but this is dinner, and the only option they're going to have if they claim to be hungry later is their reheated plate or just a cup of milk. (Provided it is food I know they like and normally eat, I'm not forcing stuff they hate in this way.) It's amazing to see how they suddenly change their minds when reminded of this. It works because I've done it a few times when they've asked for something, ANYTHING, within 30 minutes of leaving the table.

There's no food being wasted, their option when they get hungry later is to eat the food.

Also the scenes in the parenting book are meant for your typical situation. I just see absolutely NO reason to use food in any sort of way, as bribe, as punishment as anything.

Today, I read a couple scenarios that left me going "ugh"...one was telling a child "You need to have your chores done before our next mealtime" and then refusing the child food until the next morning because chores were not done when the family sat down to dinner.

For me, there are SO MANY OTHER THINGS TO USE besides mealtime. And even if I were to resort to telling the kid they're not sitting down to eat with us until chores are done because I feel that they need to contribute to the household, and I've already taken away TV, video games, etc--I have a kid who's chosen to sit in a corner all day rather than contribute to a cleaner home, I would allow them to experience the TRUE natural consequence of the choice---you don't eat until later, and I already cooked a meal, so I am not going to be involved in the preparation of your meal. I assume a child old enough to have and complete chores is also capable of opening up the refrigerator and finding something to eat without adult help. And in my house, the natural consequence of missing the meal at it's time might be that you missed out on a part of the meal, or that there's very little of something you like leftover. But under no circumstance would I say to my child--provided I have food in my house--"No, you will starve until morning now because your chores were not done by the time we sat down to eat."

I believe meals are a *right* not a privilege. But, I've done my part of providing you with your right to nutritious food by doing the shopping, cooking the food and putting it on the table. Also, your right is A MEAL--not your absolute most favorite food 24/7, so I'm not a short-order cook, and I have a duty to my kids to teach them habits that will keep them healthy--so moderation, MnM's are not a substitute for a meal. 

I have no idea why it's got to be so hard, or why anyone would advocate arguing about food. Well, OK, with the exception of enforcing a *few* limits--like no, I don't think you are hungry when you have just refused dinner. I'm not giving out ice cream tonight. (There's a giant difference in my mind between *nobody* having ice cream and refusing it to one child while the rest of the family--the "good eaters"--enjoy it)


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:


> Well, OK, with the exception of enforcing a *few* limits--like no, I don't think you are hungry when you have just refused dinner. I'm not giving out ice cream tonight. (There's a giant difference in my mind between *nobody* having ice cream and refusing it to one child while the rest of the family--the "good eaters"--enjoy it)


This was a large family dinner--most of the children weren't even mine. I could not enforce "nobody has ice cream"--are you kidding me? The adults were all also having dessert.

Like I say, we don't tie dessert to dinner in our house, but in this situation I really didn't feel I had a choice. He ate some dinner without much trouble and then had his ice cream. I knew he was largely just distracted anyway. In an ideal situation, when they eat at regular times in a peaceful environment and are given choices of healthy food only, it's much easier to trust children to eat what they need, but given a dinner where he was out too late, tired, antsy, distracted and cranky and had treats dangled in front of him, the child's basic healthy instincts can get lost, IMO.

The issues we have at our mealtimes can't be solved by taking away a plate. As I said, they're about the kids wanting to choose one or two foods only. I have read Ellyn Satter and we sort of tried it for a while--she emphasizes always having bread/starch available to "fill up on" and not worrying about it. Well, that's what my kids did, and frankly it's not a healthy way to eat in the long run. Addiction to carbs is why Americans are fat. Carbs and sugar and fat are easy to like. I think kids need a little help learning to eat some of the other stuff. Perhaps yours don't, but look, I know 12yos who eat nothing but plain pasta, plain chicken and fruit, not because of any special needs but because "that's what they'll eat." I know 6yos who have not eaten a vegetable since infancy. I don't think it's good for kids and if I can avoid that, you bet I will.


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## EVC (Jan 29, 2006)

Quote:


> Not for lack of trying, believe me. He was a healthy breastfed baby, nursed well. When I told the doc about vomiting solids, he said he was fine because he was gaining. When we got WIC when he was 2 1/2 I explained it to them and they said to go back to the docs. We did allergy tests which turned up nothing. I went back again when he was 4, they said he wasn't underweight, again we got no help. Again when he was 5 1/2. They gave us zantac. He can't swallow it. He gags on anything peppermint flavor. We had it flavored grape and he can still taste the peppermint. I'm going to call again probably this week. He's sloooooowly getting better so I'm not trying as hard as I could be I suppose. He ate by 2 pm today (as opposed to 4 or 5) and didn't end up crying from crashing...that's a successful day for us. I suspect reflux, but it could all be behavioral/sensory. But when the docs just take one look at him, see he isn't underweight and brush off my concerns, there's not a whole lot I can do.


Has you ped ever looked at his tonsils?

The reason I ask is that we are in a similar boat with our dd and I AM one of those parents who bribe, cajole, etc to get her to eat ANYTHING. She will happily refuse food and would sooner go to bed with hunger pains than eat sometimes. We are really at our wits end to get her to eat. There are only a few foods that she will happily eat without bribery: yogurt, string cheese, and cereal bars. Sometimes mac and cheese. Thing is, eating ONLY those foods is NOT a healthy diet. But getting her to eat anything else is like pulling teeth. And while she is generally healthy, she has gone from being in the 70th percentiile for weight down to the 5th percentile (!) as of last month. We REALLY do NOT want mealtimes to be a battle, but we want her to be HEALTHY and the way she eats when given full freedom is NOT (just to note: we do not keep junk food in the house, VERY rarely eat out, so everything she is exposed to is healthy, home cooked style foods).

Anyway, we recently found out that she has HUGE tonsils and that it is possible that the obstruction that they are causing is at least *part* of the reason that she does not seem to enjoy eating. We had no idea! The only reason we found this out is that she has had heavy snoring/apnea issues, so the ped finally took a look and sent us to the ENT specialist who confirmed it. So, if you haven't found any sensory issues, perhaps there is a physical reason like enlarged tonsils that is causing the gagging and food aversion?

Quote:


> 30% of American children are obese or overweight, and the vast majority eat far fewer servings of healthy foods than is recommended. I care about their health, now and in the future. That's why I "fight" with them, though I wouldn't call it fighting 98% of the time.


Exactly.


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

In a home where all of the food (or at least 98%) was totally, ideally healthy, and where there were no negative outside junk influences, it would not be necessary to have struggles of any sort over food. In such a home, the worst case scenario would be a child spending several weeks/months eating primarily fresh whole organic fruit, or organic whole grain, and this peppered with small amounts of protein & veg would not be such a bad thing.

But that isn't life for most of us. Maybe our kid goes to daycare, and sometimes get nuggets + ketchup there, and a juice box. Maybe they know about daddy's stash of coco puffs (yes, that would be my house) and scream for that. For any reason, they find that less nutritious food is out there and if they want it badly enough, the struggles begin. Or they manage to eat just enough to stave off hunger pains, but not enough to grow and thrive... yes, there are kids like this!

Trusting every child to perfectly (or even adequately) regulate their intake in a diseased food environment is unreasonable. Some require direction. All I hope to do is not create any long lasting food hangups.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I really have zero patience for that stuff. It had absolutely no place in our family. (I was going to say in our home, but then I realized that I never would let someone outside our home force or control food for my kids either so....)

We discussed and lived food like we did most things: I acted as a model for at least decent eating habits, discussed nutrition when applicable or they were interested, included them in food gathering and prep, etc. We encouraged them to cook, try new foods, or totally refuse if it didn't work for them. We mostly emphasized eating when hungry, but I talked about being munchy too, and that's okay. We call it being "mouth/mind hungry".

I feel that it's very important for a child to have the self power to say "no" "enough" or "I don't like that right now". (We often added "right now" to that statement to acknowledge they might like it in the future.) Forcing or controlling food can have such life jacking up consequences. Hunger is a very very personal thing, and it's not something we can really define for someone else. Of course parents want their child to be nourished, and we all get twitchy when we see a slight child ( I have one!) turning down meals, but discussion and creativity can usually get us through I think.


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EVC*
> 
> Has you ped ever looked at his tonsils?
> 
> ...


I'm sure they have. We do well-child visits every year. He doesn't have any snoring issues, but he does sometimes cough a lot in his sleep, which makes me think his reflux never truly went away. He doesn't have any problems with actually swallowing as far as I can tell, he just has a sensitive gag reflex (I do too). He can "do" all textures except creamy usually. He doesn't eat any condiments, which is fine since they are usually unhealthy anyway. And he's not terribly picky, but he'll go through stages where he only wants a few things. This whole weekend, all he'll eat is PB sandwiches, with the crust cut off, sliced diagonally, with a large carrot (make sure there's no brown spots!) and applesauce (natural, no sweeteners). Now thankfully, my kid's choices are healthy. He'd have a fit if the bread were white bread instead of wheat bread, and if there were sweeteners in the applesauce. And because I want a few days without fighting, he's eating that same meal twice a day until I send him to his dad's (he's eating that right now at 1:30pm, first thing he's had today and I think that is a new record!). I just can't fight all the time. I KNOW part of the problem is sensory/behavioral but I don't really know what to do about it. It's not easy to convince doctors there is a problem. They only see his height and weight. They don't see the pattern of eating (or non-eating) I see. I tell them, but I'm sure they think I'm exaggerating. One doctor told me because his dad tends to feed him junkier food he's just "being picky" and that he's so active he doesn't want to stop to eat. Except he's NOT picky. And he DOES chill out (between bouts of energy, he'll play quietly with legos or magnets for 2+ hours at a time. He eats tons of fruits and veggies, he eats meat at his dad's house...it's just a matter of getting him to eat. I think I have to have a referral to go to a behavioral specialist.


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## sharon71 (May 27, 2005)

I think the biggest way to create food issues is to "force" them to eat something they don't like,to clean their plate (this can lead to Obesity as can letting them eat nothing but junk).

I still have issues from childhood.


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## tonttu (Dec 24, 2010)

That´s exactly , what I was trying to say in my post . I make the food and put an amount on their plate , that I think , is appropriate for their size (we are all quite skinny by nature) , but it will be up to them to eat it or not .

If it´s a new food , I want them to try it , since how do you know , if you like something , if you´ve never had it ?!

But if they don´t want to eat , there is always the next meal to eat . I am not fighting with them , since this is something they have control over and I believe , it creates a bigger problem if you force them to eat . And I would never force a child to finish it´s meal , with the exception of my youngest son , who for a while would pile up his plate , like it´s the last time .

They know , if they want seconds , after finishing their plate , they can have as much as they want .

But I have a good friend , who was always forced to finish her plate , and she now weighs over 250 lbs and always struggles .

I am not saving their food , since I believe , that all they learn , is , "I can play all I want , my food is waiting for me " . No , dinner time is now , not in 15 minutes , when you decide to join us .

We have a large family , though , and we would have a 24-hour catering service going , if we would feed everybody , when they feel like it , so some of it is also a logistical thing for me , since I am the one , who is doing the cooking and meal preparation .

Plus , I think , it helps prepare them for when they are in school , since there they have fixed times , too .

Dealing with a child , that´s got food issues , however , is a totally different story and has nothing to do with the dynamics of a "normal" family (don´t take that expression too literally , pleas)


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

We try not to fight about food, or turn it into an issue but.......

DD is 5 now, and has always been a great, adventurous eater. Lately all she wants is candy or not to eat at all. Part of that is the holidays and just having more sweets around, and having them offered everywhere we go. But she is a little 5 year old and she's a moody, prone to melt-downs, little thing! And I can definitely connect food and sugar to her moods. So, just this year I have started to push the proteins and to more vigilant about making sure she's eating a good balance of carbs, protein, leafy greens--so that she's not just running on sugar fumes. Personally, I don't see the point in having constant conflict over anything--I think if you have an issue, you find a mutually satisfactory way to deal with it. (Assuming of course, that you're not dealing with some kind of deeper sensory issue as mentioned upthread)

DD knows how I feel about eating enough good food to "fuel" her body but occasionally I do and will push her to eat more or better.


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## Lillitu (Jan 19, 2009)

I have this vivid memory of me as a kid, my mom forcing me to eat everything on my plate. She would not let me leave the table until I did- while the rest of the family went downstairs to watch wonderful world of Disney.

I hated meat as a kid- my mom did not know how to cook it well to begin with, and I preferred vegetables anyway. I was one of those weird kids who loved brussels sprouts, but that wasn't good enough- she wanted me to eat those pork chops dang it!

I remember that they tasted awful to me- I would chew and chew that one piece of meat, but my throat would rebel and not allow me to swallow it. I started spitting into napkins and putting in the trash. Then I was caught doing that and I would stuff the napkins into my clothing and try and dispose of them elsewhere where she would not catch it. WHY WHY WHY?

I will NOT do this with my son. He is already an awesome eater at 11 months and loves virtually everything he has tried. When there is the rare time he does not want to eat or he appears to dislike what we have given him-no big deal. I do not understand WHY someone would choose to do this with their kid.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fairejour*
> 
> Well, my daughter is actually in therapy to deal with her inability to eat certain foods. She has sensory issues and she can not recognize feeling hungry. She goes way too long without eating, and then becomes ill. Her body can't make the connection between being hungry, and feeling bad. And then, add on top, that she has a physical aversion to many foods. Her body learned as a baby that food was not safe (NICU plus reflux issues) so her body panics when food is offered to her.
> 
> So.....no, I am not trying to "control her". But yeah, I will beg, and plead and sometimes end up yelling about food. And if you stood outside of feeding therapy, you would think that we have tied her down and are torturing her! (But, in actuality, we have a spoon, a dot of tomato soup and a napkin, and she is perfectly free to say no and more on) Her body actually fears food....it is a crazy world!


Wow, I have never heard of this. Good luck to you, mama.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *peaceful_mama*
> 
> Even at the table--today we had some buffalo wings. Kids asked if they were hot. I said "I don't know, try it and see what you think" because *I* can't tell them what their tastebuds think! (I'm also willing to finish the rest of a one-bite burn-out wing :lol) All 3 kids liked these particular wings, which were not particularly hot compared to the ones we get from takeout--but the 2 year old was eating the inside, not the skin with the spicy part.


Exactly- when my son asks for things, I let him try them. When something he tried was too spicy, I gave him some milk. His eyes watered, but he was fine. It didn't affect him trying to eat after that, either.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lauren82*
> 
> I don't understand why people fight with children about food either. If the kids don't want to eat something, fine. I will not be a short order cook for anyone, not even DH. If they start fooling around at the dinner table, they get one warning before they are asked to leave.


Bingo!


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## fairejour (Apr 15, 2004)

See, I can't imagine telling a child that they have to eat *now*....I wouldn't tell an adult that. If my husband told me that he wasn't hungry at "dinner time", I wouldn't make him eat. I certainly ave eaten before or after a set "dinner time" because my hunger didn't realize the time.

Also, if my daughter was told that "if she was hungry, she would eat it", the food would literally sit there until she died.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Oh WOW I'm sorry....seriously. *now* I remember reading your post about the dinner party with the ice cream......that must have been why "ice cream" was in my brain for an example!

I was saying that on a normal evening at home, when I am the one in charge of serving a dessert, I would not serve a dessert that night at all rather than single out one person to not have it.

In the situation of the dinner party, *I* would've done the same thing....though I might have had to battle even DH saying just let the kid eat the ice cream.

One 'trick" I've used with mine when they are requesting something unhealthy,or just something they've had a lot of, like fruit, that has worked, is to say "Yes, you may have one candy/cookie--or share an orange with your brother--as part of your lunch!" and then serve the item along with the meal. (Typically DD is the one asking, because she is hungry, because it is mealtime.) It works especially well with my almost 4 year old daughter who has a very serious tendency to dig in her heels to the word no. I've saved myself a battle over food, and she does end up eating her lunch. win-win (so far I have not even had to dig in my heels on the limit I've set on the requested item, she is just happy I think to have heard a "Yes")

Ellyn Satter.....well....I like the principle of not trying to force food on kids, because when it comes right down to the end of it, you have no control over what they actually put in their mouths, chew, and swallow.

But I think it's a little older and some of the advice needs to be reconsidered in light of new information. Also, parents have great control through what is made available at the dinner table and in the home. Children do not drive to the store and they do not pay--they have no real means of obtaining their own food until they are nearly adults. We as the parents *always* have the veto power over what comes into the home in the first place, so....if the parent decides there is a problem with the children eating too much of anything, the item can simply make far less frequent appearances in the house/on the table until the parent no longer has the problem.  (helps if you clue the kids in to what you see as the problem, why there's now not a bread product with dinner, or you've stopped buying chips, or whatever.)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


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## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

We also have obesity issues in my family, and so I refuse to require a "clean plate."

DS is 3, and he will eat vegetables, even ones that I hated as a child, but it depends on the time and the meal. He still prefers his carbs.

I don't worry about how much he eats of healthy foods, as long as he follows his own hunger cues. [normal, healthy child, on a healthy growth curve] We frequently cover his plate when he's done, put it in the fridge, and bring it out for another meal, later.

I do worry about variety of foods, and about unhealthy foods. When all he wants is the starchy or dessert carbs, I try to encourage some protein and/or some vegetables. Usually phrased "please eat [1 to 3 bites of x] before you get more of [carb]." If he protests and asks again, I'll say, "Yes, [carb] when you've eaten [x]" until either he eats a few bites, or we end the meal.

Grandma's house always has desserts on the table, and potato chips available. I've had to tell DS that I don't want him having a cookie before about 10 am, because he asks for one for breakfast (although since a donut is "ok," I'm having to think about this position). I want him to try his growing food before getting the junk.

To me, the big thing is not making it a power struggle. I won't force DS to eat . I will encourage healthy foods, what I've been calling "growing foods," and try to limit unhealthy sweets/fats. Sometimes, this encouragement comes in the form of negotiation, as described above.

If there's something he doesn't like to eat, I put a bite on his plate, and let him decide. If he won't try it that time, I put another bite on his plate the next time we plan that food.

Sometimes, when DS is asking for a cookie / cake / candy, what he's telling me is really that he's hungry. Since those are the things he sees, and he knows he likes them, that's what he'll ask for. So we can then talk with him about what growing foods he might like to make it a meal.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Mine *don't* have to eat *now*. They have the choice to leave the table. They also need to understand that this is the meal I have provided, and it is what there will be until the next time I, or somebody else, decide to cook. They're also not getting endless amounts of fruit, because they'd eat nothing else, or any junky snacks when they've refused a meal of foods they typically like.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fairejour*
> 
> See, I can't imagine telling a child that they have to eat *now*....I wouldn't tell an adult that. If my husband told me that he wasn't hungry at "dinner time", I wouldn't make him eat. I certainly ave eaten before or after a set "dinner time" because my hunger didn't realize the time.
> 
> Also, if my daughter was told that "if she was hungry, she would eat it", the food would literally sit there until she died.


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## SpiderMum (Sep 13, 2008)

They do it because that's what their parent did...and their parents did it because their parents did that before them, etc. At one point food was scarce and couldn't be wasted which is probably where it came from...but in the modern times it's really ridiculous to fight over meals and give children a complex over food.

Our toddler eats whatever she wants (so long as it's available...so we avoid having junk in the house), whenever she wants, and however much she wants. Some days she'll eat almost nothing....other day I'm scrambling 2 eggs at a time 3 times a day with various snacks in between. Some days I'm hungry and eat all day long....some days I barely eat...why would my child be different?


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## Kellyh_01 (Apr 24, 2006)

It is so incredibly frustrating to have done everything "right" and to have a child (DD, 16) who is the pickiest eater I have ever encountered in my life. I do now make my younger kids taste things and have a few more bites, because I don't want to have another kid with the crappy diet that my oldest does. We never forced her to try things or to eat things. We just presented healthy meals, yet she would never eat it. And I'm sure at some point in the future she will end up obese and diabetic since nearly all she will eat are processed carbs. A previous poster mentioned 6 y.o's who haven't eaten a vegetable since infancy...well, that's my daughter, except she's 16 instead of 6. I LOVE vegetables, all of them - cooked, raw, in salads, we eat them daily. They are always available in our house. She doesn't eat them. She will put a tiny serving (teaspoon) on her plate because that is what I expect as an example for the younger ones. She will eat it if it is corn or green beans from a can, but that is it. She eats no meat. She won't eat a casserole or anything that's got any type of sauce on it. She won't eat beans. In order to have her eat anything at mealtime I serve plain pasta or rice as a side dish. Her diet consists of cereal, milk, cheese, eggs, bacon, peanut butter, pop corn, rice, pasta, and breads. The only fruit she'll eat are apples, and that's infrequently. She won't eat oranges, bananas, pineapple, or grapes. She's never been willing to try any type of salad dressing. She has never eaten a ham or turkey or tuna sandwich. She's never had chili. She won't eat any soups. Whatever we're having for dinner always has to be modified somehow to accomodate her. And now my 6 y.o daughter who is an awesome eater, won't eat meat, because she wants to be just like her sis. Some days it's infuriating. In theory, it sounds great to just serve healthy foods, have kids help with the preparation, keep presenting it and they will eventually try it, etc. But it doesn't always work.


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## camracrazy (May 27, 2006)

My 5 yo has a FTT diagnosis because she has Cystic Fibrosis. The more weight we can keep on her, the better her lung function and the higher chance that she can battle an infection (if she gets one) at home instead of going to the hospital for two weeks. So yeah, even though I know it's not productive I do find myself nagging her to eat. Luckily she got a unicorn pillow pet for Christmas and unicorn likes to come to the table with her and eat up all of her food. Tonight unicorn ate 1 1/2 slices of pot roast, three helpings of salad, some green beans, and most of a slice of raspberry cheesecake. If only I'd known what great appetites unicorns have I would have bought her one a long time ago!!! LOL

I try to keep the food battles down by keeping healthy food around and not buying junk that I wouldn't want anyone in the family to eat on a regular basis. I figure that means if someone eats something then isn't hungry for lunch, at least they ate something good for them. And I find that my kids will usually eat better if I give them small portions to begin with. I think seeing a huge plate of food in front of them is overwhelming to some kids, and they just get discouraged before they even try to eat anything.


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## oaktreemama (Oct 12, 2010)

I approach all meals with the assumption that my son will love everything on his plate. I hear so many of my friends and family say, 'Oh my kid hates that stuff," or "Oh weird. My kid would never eat that!!" And my response is how do you know? Why approach food from a position of negativity?

It seems so many of them dumb down their kid's food and I think that is a mistake. The kids aren't getting the chance to develop a palate when everything that is served to them is "kid friendly."

I serve my son three meals and two snacks a day. Snacks can be whatever he wishes but generally I plan the main meals. When he is a bit older he can start helping and participating in meal making so he learns to expand his tastes and learns how to cook healthy meals for himself.

I serve him very small portions so his plate doesn't look overloaded-I think that freaks kids out.

Will it work-will my son grow up and eat like me and his Daddy? I hope so-there are very few things my hubby and I will not eat/don't like to eat. And I feel that what I am doing is the best way to both avoid food battles now, and raise a kid with a well rounded palate willing to try new foods.


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## Tumble Bumbles (Oct 15, 2009)

I totally agree with the below quotes.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HollyBearsMom*
> 
> Food is one of my many "not worth the power struggle" issues. I don't see any benefit in fighting about food.
> 
> ...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
> 
> I really have zero patience for that stuff. It had absolutely no place in our family. (I was going to say in our home, but then I realized that I never would let someone outside our home force or control food for my kids either so....)
> 
> ...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sharon71*
> 
> I think the biggest way to create food issues is to "force" them to eat something they don't like,to clean their plate (this can lead to Obesity as can letting them eat nothing but junk).
> 
> I still have issues from childhood.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpiderMum*
> 
> They do it because that's what their parent did...and their parents did it because their parents did that before them, etc. At one point food was scarce and couldn't be wasted which is probably where it came from...but in the modern times it's really ridiculous to fight over meals and give children a complex over food.
> 
> Our toddler eats whatever she wants (so long as it's available...so we avoid having junk in the house), whenever she wants, and however much she wants. Some days she'll eat almost nothing....other day I'm scrambling 2 eggs at a time 3 times a day with various snacks in between. Some days I'm hungry and eat all day long....some days I barely eat...why would my child be different?


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> The issues we have at our mealtimes can't be solved by taking away a plate. As I said, they're about the kids wanting to choose one or two foods only. I have read Ellyn Satter and we sort of tried it for a while--she emphasizes always having bread/starch available to "fill up on" and not worrying about it. Well, that's what my kids did, and frankly it's not a healthy way to eat in the long run. Addiction to carbs is why Americans are fat. Carbs and sugar and fat are easy to like. I think kids need a little help learning to eat some of the other stuff. Perhaps yours don't, but look, I know 12yos who eat nothing but plain pasta, plain chicken and fruit, not because of any special needs but because "that's what they'll eat." I know 6yos who have not eaten a vegetable since infancy. I don't think it's good for kids and if I can avoid that, you bet I will.


I agree we need to lead our children. For the most part though, we don't do it in my home by enforcing "this then that" rules. What we do enforce is "dessert is one cookie" but we seriously do not care when you eat it. If it's okay after the vegetable course, then it's okay before. We lead by limiting the choices we bring into the home, but not by then directing them too heavily. Sometimes, sure, I'll say "hey whoa, that's your third helping of peas. You might want to try some fish." But over a week, I think I'm pretty much just fine tuning; if I don't look at the daily but at the weekly consumption, my 5 year old is still reasonably on track, as long as his parents haven't had some kind of nostalgia attack and brought in the wrong stuff.

There's no reason you have to do bread. We do actually often have bread but it's most often breadmaker bread which is whole grain and has some goodies in there. But our "on the table as favs" include avocado, homemade whole-grain flatbread with a bean-based dip, yoghurt, etc.

I bring this up 'cause I think you're kind of missing the point if you think she's just advocating bread. She's advocating that you present your child with a balanced family meal, making sure that there's something on the table that they enjoy that you can live with if they happen to select it as a main course.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"I feel that it's very important for a child to have the self power to say "no" "enough" or "I don't like that right now". (We often added "right now" to that statement to acknowledge they might like it in the future.)"

Well, sure. I'd worry a lot if my kids weren't able to refuse food if they weren't hungry or identify that they disliked a certain food.

Thing is, they seem to have been born with solid skills is these arenas.







Those aren't things I need to teach, any more than I need to teach them to crave carbohydrates. What I need to teach them is the culture that balances out all the food-related urges that human beings evolved in a world without grocery stores (heck, a world without GARDENS - we haven't been an agricultural species for very long!).

Eating nutritionally balanced meals communally, at set times, and being polite about what is served is part of a healthy food culture IMNSHO. Many posters have commented that adults aren't told what/when to eat - well, no, and they generally don't have to be told not to pick their noses at the table, either. They've internalized the food culture of their family/region/peer group, and they're following the rules without any sense of constraint.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


> Eating nutritionally balanced meals communally, at set times, and being polite about what is served is part of a healthy food culture IMNSHO.


Having the option to eat communally and/or at a set time or to decline is what I view as healthy. Being able to politely decline a food dish in a way that does not hurt another's feelings is key I think.


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## petey44 (Nov 6, 2008)

Why do people feel it is necessary to fight with children about food?

Because we are a world made up of individuals with individual thoughts, experiences, and expectations. We all have different ideas about what healthy food is and what junk food is, we all have different ideas about what table manners are necessary and which can be pushed to the side. We all live different lifestyles, where some can afford to waste food and others cannot, where some have time to be "short order cooks" and others do not. We all have our own genetic backgrounds with predispositions to certain conditions and diseases, and we all have our own thoughts about what will protect our children from these health issues.

The end result of this is that, if you spend enough time with another family unit, you'll be able to find something about the way the adult interacts with the child regarding food to complain about. Who cares? If you want to fight with your kid about food, go ahead. I trust that you have your reasons. If you don't want to fight with your kid about food, fine. I trust that you also have your reasons.


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## bsaros84 (Dec 9, 2010)

I don't know if I would consider it "fighting" with my child. My son is 2.5 years old and for the longest time, I let him do whatever. I didn't fight with him about foods...I let him eat when he was hungry and I tried not to force him to eat stuff he didn't like. I was too lackadaisical about it because it started to get to the point where he would just demand for me to open the fridge and then he'd "browse". He didn't really want anything, he wasn't actually hungry, he just wanted me to open the fridge for him and he would grab stuff that I knew he wouldn't eat and ask for it. Most of the time, I would give it to him until I realized he wasn't eating it, he was just throwing it on the floor, in the garbage, or giving it to the dog.

At dinner time, I would make him a little meal and he would flat out refuse to eat any of it, even if he hadn't eaten since lunch or breakfast or whatever. And if he was feeling particularly cheeky, he'd dump his plate or sneak pieces to the dog. I was finally fed up with his behavior and decided that he had to at least have a mandatory couple of bites of everything on his plate. So that's what we do now. Even if it means he has to sit there for 30 minutes or more. If he throws a fit, he gets a time out. If he dumps his plate, he gets a time out. This way, he knows I mean business and I am satisfied that he is at least getting something half way nutritious.

I don't really know what the right way is. I just know that what I was doing before wasn't working and this is working. Yeah, it requires patience and it is something of a power struggle, but he can't live on mac and cheese and I refuse to continue fixing him something different than the rest of the family. If I know he's eaten something before dinner, I would save it for later, but if I know he hasn't had anything and if I know he is just being a stubborn little butt, then I do insist that he has a few bites so that he doesn't come back later going "I'm hungry."


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## dalia (Sep 3, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *petey44*
> 
> Why do people feel it is necessary to fight with children about food?
> 
> ...


Yup.


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## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

I agree with the quote below.

The other thing I would add, is that I think my son eats vegetables because he sees Mom & Dad eat vegetables. I had a very wise teacher who taught us to lead by example, and I've been blessed with a son who follows our example. Your mileage will vary.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oaktreemama*
> 
> I approach all meals with the assumption that my son will love everything on his plate. I hear so many of my friends and family say, 'Oh my kid hates that stuff," or "Oh weird. My kid would never eat that!!" And my response is how do you know? Why approach food from a position of negativity?


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:


> I think my son eats vegetables because he sees Mom & Dad eat vegetables.


Studies do show that modeling is important. However, I know one child whose parents LOVE vegetables and eat them all the time who will.not. touch them. My kids do eat vegetables, lots of them, but I am pretty sure that a good deal of that is just luck. I do think different people have different palates and tendencies--some just find vegetables overwhelmingly strong, some are really obsessively drawn to sugar.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Haven't read the replies . . .

I've been on both sides of this. Theoretically I agree with the OP, and we often handle mealtimes exactly the same way. However, the "no more dinner later" often backfires on us. The kid will agree to it at the moment, and hop up and run off. Then, right before bedtime, the 6yo is STARVING, and is begging for some food that only I can prepare for him - heat up his soup, or something like that. I could refuse, and tell him that I am done cooking, so fine, then he will just have a bowl of cereal. But I'd rather he have the soup than the cereal, so I have another dilemma - refuse to heat up soup, or go back on what I said earlier about not making another dinner.

The biggest battle we have is with my oldest about sugar. I do not believe in controlling a person's food, and would like to say that whatever in the house is up for grabs. This works just fine with my younger son. But my older son has a serious sugar addiction, and has ever since I can remember. When he was 3yo we used to find him hiding eating a box of brown sugar. Do this day nothing gets him as excited as the possibility of something sugary. It's a dilemma for us - we don't want to control what and how much he eats before gorging himself on sugar, we don't want to completely deprive him, but we also don't want him spun out in a sugar coma.

So, it's not really cut and dry. I do wish my MIL would stop commenting at every. single. freaking. meal. about what a "good eater" my younger son is just because he eats a lot at dinner. Makes me batty. Both of my kids eat just fine.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


That's us. Sometimes all I eat is vegetables - my biggest diet downfall is getting enough protein. I prepare meat, but am not fond it. I don't make much pasta. I pretty much eat salads, veggies or vegetable soup constantly. My kids eat a few veggies, one kid more than the other, but it has been a struggle. So the modeling didn't necessarily work out in our family.


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## Cavy (Aug 21, 2009)

I think I'm quite controlling about food, I strictly limit how much sugary food they can have, anyway. And I'm a bit pernickety about salty stuff. But that said, sometimes I hear SOME people talking about their food battles and even I shake my head, I'm just thinking I would not make an issue out of THAT.This is separate from kids who won't eat for complicated special needs issues. It's just about why do some people make battles when you really don't need to.


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## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

This is such a struggle for me all the time. I have been anorexic since I was 8 years old. It goes away when I am pregnant and nursing, but the second I wean I am completely back. I do not want my children to have issues with food, I'm always extremely careful to eat dinner with my family and I am working everyday to instill self-worth and healthy body images in my kiddos.

Personally, I love watching young children enjoy meals. They are eating to nourish their bodies without any social-media inner dialouge poisoning the experience. I believe my children know their bodies better than I do and they are the best judges of when they are hungry and full. We do plated meals, but I always give very small portions and they can decide what they would like more of. We don't do dessert on any sort of regular basis, but when we do it is open to everyone no matter what they ate. This is a big issue with DH and I, but I don't want my kids to gorge themselves in order to get a reward and then associate the pleasure of dessert with that full feeling you know? My DH came from a family where you ate everything on your plate or you were beat and didn't get the next meal...

My BIL and SIL have a 4 year old who is forced to clean his plate at every meal. And they serve him an obscene amount of food for his age. It breaks my heart whenever we are together. The tables will be empty except for the three of them threatening him to clean his plate. On the other extreme, one of my daycare kids eats chicken nuggets for EVERY meal at his house because Mom says thats all he will eat...He eats a pretty wide variety of great foods at my house?

I think food is such a complicated issue and I am not saying what I do is right or the only way, how wonderful to see 4 pages of Mamas who are following their instincts and doing what is best for their families!


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## camracrazy (May 27, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


My oldest two won't touch broccoli with a 10 foot pole but my youngest loves it. It surprises people to see a 3 yo walking around noshing down raw broccoli! She won't eat the stems, though.

All of my kids liked corn until recently. It used to be my 5 yo's absolute favorite food, but now she won't eat it. All of my kids used to eat peas, but now they hardly touch them. My oldest will only eat green beans at a certain restaurant we go to about once a year. Who knows why they choose the way they do?

I can remember not liking certain things as a child that I eat now. I can also think of things I used to eat that taste horrible now. I try not to let my preferences dictate what my kids try, but in reality I do the grocery shopping and food preparing, and if I don't like a food then I probably have no clue how to prepare it and don't want to waste part of our grocery budget on something that might not get eaten. I will buy them stuff I don't like if I know they will eat it.


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