# Dear US citizen...



## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Hi,

This is a post for all those who live in the US legally (not because I'm judging if you're an illegal immigrant, but because it's relative to my questions).

I'm curious about health insurance, and the reason you don't have it.

Health care in the US and talk about introducing universal healthcare seems to be a UA violation kind of topic, and I can certainly understand why, but let's try not to let that happen here.









.


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## yokosmile (Apr 22, 2007)

I cannot afford HIC. I am a 21 year old college student, and I only work part time. My boyfriend works full time, and we support each other, but he doesn't make enough money to pay for my HIC. We also have student loan debt and a car payment which is certainly a significant amount of debt. Afer those bills at the end of the month, there is none left for HI.

I am currently paying off a $3000+ ER visit at $25 a month. I don't have regular doctor visits. I haven't had a pap in well over a year. The last pap I had, I payed out of pocket, and it left me completely broke. It scares me. But there's nothing I can do about it.

My parents are very poor. They make around 12k a year in SS and a part time job. They cannot pay for my HI.

I am an honor student, I volunteer, I work hard... and it all seems like it's for nothing. I hope I don't get seriously ill anytime soon. It's all so very bleak...

And to think... I can't get a pap... but genital mutilation is covered by Medicaid in some states... lunacy..


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## s_kristina (Aug 9, 2004)

My kids are on medicaid, but dh makes too much for us adults to be covered by anything. He makes no where near enough for us to afford private insurance. I've thought more then once about getting a job just so we could have health health insurance, but we would end up paying more for me to work then I would be able to make. The cost of living compared to entry level jobs is insane here. So that ends up with both of us in desperate need of medical care, but totally unable to afford it. I can't play outside with our children without an asthma attack, but can't get medication. He very likely is having trouble with hereditary circulatory issues, but again we can't get him in to see anyone. Even if we could find a free clinic around here it would mean taking time off work and that means a loss of income. The way things are right now our lack of health care will mean at least one of us dies much younger then we would if we had health care.


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## momuveight2B (Mar 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yokosmile* 
. I don't have regular doctor visits. I haven't had a pap in well over a year. The last pap I had, I payed out of pocket, and it left me completely broke. ..

Planned Parenthood used to offer these and birth control for a very reasonable cost on a sliding fee scale. When I was a student we could go to the student health clinic on campus and get both for free.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

We have health insurance and really need it. My dd has some signficant long-term health issues and her monthly medical costs just for tube-feeding supplies comes to $1500. On top of that she seeps specialists every few months and usually makes a trip to ER about once or twice a year. She also gets endoscopies about twice a year at around $5000 each. So yeah, we really need it. We tried to get Medicaid for her long-term issues because sometimes they will cover kids like her regardless of income, but she did not qualify.

My dh works a job he doesn't particularly like but it's a state gov't job and the benefits are pretty good. Even still we pay around $450 month just for her out of pocket medical expenses or copays.

I do not believe in UH unless it's really a good program. I know people in Canada on my tubefeeding support board who have many problems getting their children tests and procedures, also just basic doctor appts. If it's a life and death situation though, the child usually gets the care they need at a hospital.


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## EVC (Jan 29, 2006)

We don't have health insrance because we can't afford it. I'm afraid dh has developed a fairly serious medical problem, but we can not afford for him to see a doctor


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## SunRise (Apr 18, 2005)

No health insurance here. My son and I were covered for 7.5 years through my emplyment. Then the company had some financial difficulties and went dormant. SO we were not covered for the six months while there was no income.

Cobra was an option, but I didnt have the 750 dollars a month to pay it (no work no money)

As well, I did check out medicare and another state program but didnt qualify. (Due to odd circumstances).

During the 6 months of not working and not having health coverage we had one asthma attack / trip to emergency, a sick visit and a well visit (all for my child) (paid out of pocket). I have postponed eye appointments and dentist.

Now am working again but still no health benefits / insurance. My salary disqualifies my child for medicare and also exceeds the state program to qualify.

I can afford it, I suppose, rather then put money in savings. But since I hadnt worked for a while my priority is too pay off the other bills that accumulated during nonemployment and then research H.I. a bit more.

We are both low risk / regular health and the cost for one adult one child appears to be 1300 a month now (just a few numbers I saw advertised by health insurance company.) ... which would mean I choose health care or savings and pay out of pocket for care??? Also I intend to try to conceive and will be weighing the options of health insurance versus out of pocket...

I dont think people should have to have this kind of worry or stress....choosing between one or the other, or just plain not being able to afford it...


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

When I lived in the States I worked for the NYS government, and then DH worked for the NYC government, so I was always covered.

For the record, though, now in NYS _all children are covered_ under the free Child Health Plus program. And the low-income Family Health Plus program (a small fee) or the Healthy NY program (a less-small fee) is available for singles and families without health insurance.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

My husband does not have health insurance because he cannot afford it right now, and I currently have it through the state because I have no income. My kids have Medicaid. For us, health insurance is simply too expensive, and we live paycheck to paycheck as is.

I'm not a fan of universal healthcare because of the long waits, ext., it can cause, but I do favor the state providing healthcare to all families under a certain income level that we all pay for out of our taxes, at least. I'm still forming my opinion on that whole deal-it is very complicated indeed.


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## KJoslyn78 (Jun 3, 2007)

right now we have HI - the kids have medicaid and DH and i are on another program called Family Health Plus (much like child health plus - but for those 19-64 yo). We have a slightly out of pocket costs on FHP but not for the medicaid for the kids (when i was on medicaid and not pregnant - there was also an very small cost - less them FHP, for my thyroid medication and such, but under 18 and pregnant bear no cost out of pocket).

It's the only way we heave HI and we do need it - as in the past year DH has gotten extremelly ill without reason 1, another an odd allergic reaction to pink eye medication. I also have hypothyrodism and need blood work ever few months (still trying to get my levels correct) plus my medication (which isnt too bad on it's own - but add Dr visits and lab tests, and...). My DH also has been Dxed with BiPolar and although currently he doesnt need medication - when he does it's expensive.

As far as UH - IDK. I dont think things are right they way they are now - but i am not sure what a good solution for the whole would be.


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## jandc_hammond (Nov 3, 2006)

I don't have healthcare insurance, but my DH does (DD is covered my medicaid). His company charges about 1/6 of his income to cover just him. If he wanted family coverage, it would cost more than 1/2 of his income....we are already somewhat low-income, so we cannot afford coverage for all of us. Fortunately, our state's medicaid program provides coverage to children, so DD is insured. The state does not provide medicaid to adults, unless they are pregnant or disabled. I did have great coverage while I was employed (prior to DD's birth), but left my job after she was born (childcare expenses were as much as my income and I traveled constantly, making breastfeeding very difficult). I really wish healthcare were more affordable, as there have been times where I have needed to see a doctor, but could not afford it, causing the illness to become worse (and more expensive to treat). We are working on putting money into a savings account to use for medical expenses, but have a fair amount of student loan and past medical expense debt that we are also trying to pay off.


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## SamuraiMom (Nov 7, 2006)

We are self employed, and in limbo for the next 60 days until we find out what we do qualify for. Until then, DC's have medicaid for $60 a month and DH and I have free-care. All that I want is affordable health care. I agree that the US health system needs a desperate overhaul, and I am not sure about UHC... but I don't have any suggestions either. In our state it is law that we all must have HI, or else. We don't quilfy for Mass Health and we make just a little too much for Common Wealth care which would get us affordable health care. So, if in 60 days they tell us that we can't get any help from our state program, we are getting the "or else". But like another person had said on this thread, I could go back to work to pay for HC, but I would also have to pay for daycare and baby sitters....


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## JessicaTX (Jul 9, 2006)

health insurance is available through dp's work, but he's the only one covered. We paid the excessive fees for a year and would have ended up spending like a third as much if we'd just paid out of pocket. the copays were ridiculous and practically nothing was covered. so we dropped the 800 dollar a month fees and pay out of pocket when we need to go. We're low risk and pretty healthy, even though no doctor will take us on







Medical care is done exclusively through the emergency room, even the urgent care clinics won't see us.







:


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## Snowdrift (Oct 15, 2005)

*


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

My two kids are covered free by the state. I am a single mom (they have a dad, we're just divorced) and would honestly go into debt if I did regular well woman visits, etc. It is very scary - I'm pretty sure I have some pelvic health problems but haven't had a pap in, oh, eight years or so. Simply can't afford it.


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## SunRise (Apr 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *merpk* 
...

For the record, though, now in NYS _all children are covered_ under the free Child Health Plus program. And the low-income Family Health Plus program (a small fee) or the Healthy NY program (a less-small fee) is available for singles and families without health insurance.


All of those programs have Income Eligibility Levels. So Child Health Plus is still dependant upon parents salary. My son doesnt qualify for free health care due to my salary. If you make over a certain amount you pay a full premium (which they claim is less then private insurance).


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## 2busy2clean (Feb 3, 2005)

I do have health care -- but I'm scared to death to use it!! Why can't dr's be educated better and know how to treat diseases wisely (nutrition/herbal.) My body can't afford to be sliced and diced or drugged because "thats the way we do things."


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

We have good health insurance now (although my partner just got it after 9 years of being uninsured) so I didn't vote, but I am 1000% in favor of universal healthcare. We just watched Sicko and it made me want to move to another country. It's so awful here and the horror stories abound. As far as I can tell, the only people who don't want universal healthcare are the few lucky enough to already have good insurance and the wealth to cover copays, deductibles, and other uncovered costs. Which seems very self-centered and uncaring to me.


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## Ambrose (Apr 20, 2004)

We're on State insurance. We have specific doctors we can and can't go to. One place never told me they couldn't take our insurance and I've got a $4,000 bill because of it in collections already. I also got denied a neuropsychological (i think it's called that) appointment that is $200/hour and it's typically a minimum of a 5 hour visit.

One thing I like about it- I pay no more than $12/mo for my prescriptions (I have 7). It's $3/script with a max of $12 out of pocket.

I love some aspects of it but despise others and causes me _almost_ too much frustrations for the lovable parts to balance the scale.


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## 3_opihi (Jan 10, 2003)

We are covered through my husbands health insurance, even though we are separated. We just switched to the Mainland corporate insurance policy and pay about 300 dollars a month for a PPO (preferred provider, means you can go to anyone but the out of pocket is higher). Before we switched, we were paying about 650 a month a month for PPO and coverage was only 80%. My son, dd and I all have chronic health problems and that has really destroyed us financially. Sucks.

We just got on the state medicaid program (Quest) and that will be our secondary insurance which will cover anything our primary doesn't. (because I'm in such a small state - Hawai'i, and it's very limited in providers, pretty much everyone takes quest.)

Insurance issues also vary widely from State to state. I know here in Hawaii and in California all employers HAVE to provide insurance to anyone working more than 20 hours a week. Some states it is 40 hours. The bummer about that, is that most small businesses have a hard time providing this. I know that for the place I work, I could not afford the insurance - it would have taken up both of my paychecks.


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## Unoppressed MAMA Q (Jun 13, 2004)

i had my kids on the state program for a year or three, mostly b/c i was paranoid after a CPS run-in and they just couldn't understand why i didn't want to put DD on it. after that was over, we sort of lived in response/reaction to the CPS invasion. now that i'm healing from THAT more and more, i have removed my children from the state insurance program.

DP wants it. his job does not provide it. DP also makes a lot of bizarre choices, like eating lots of fast 'food', using cigarettes, etc. it's no wonder he wants to employ the services of dentists and the like.

i for one, want to spend more and more of my life overcoming the very things that insurance 'provides' for.
i wear glasses, but i try to spend more and more time without them. i have a long-ago injury that effects me cosmetically, and i know that the only thing any insurance can do about it is a root canal. No thanks. i'm working on visualization, overcoming food addictions/sugar intake, etc. it's a process that nobody in a white coat can do for me. a therapist might be of help, but i'd be reluctant to use an insurance-based one, as you have to be 'diagnosed' to get insurance to pay. argh.

insurance helps make the allopathic model seem normal, which is not what i'm going for in raising my kids/living my life.

HTH.


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## EarthyMamaofDaisy (Aug 14, 2006)

Just wanted to mention that you can get a pap through the Breast and Cervical Cancer program if you're low income.
We get Medicaid and we'd be screwed without it. I just had a super-high risk pregnancy and my baby had heart surgery and has been about a month in the hospital total. Even if we had private insurance we wouldn't be able to afford the co-pays.


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

When I posted this thread, I wasn't prepared for the sadness I felt when I returned to see the results.

Living in Canada, I didn't truly understand how incredibly expensive just basic treatments cost. I learned through a Canadian-born friend who moved to the US after marrying; and had her babies there. The same treatment I get here for "free" without thinking twice, she had to pay unbelievably high prices for. I was blown away.

Yes, our doctors get paid less than they do in the US, but the system is a work in progress, and changes are being made to rectify this situaion. Yes we pay more in taxes, and wait times can be long, but the benefits far far exceed the downfalls.

People are losing their lives and their loved one's because they can't afford the most basic care. I honestly can't wrap my head around it when people say they don't want to have healthcare that covers everyone; and it makes me sick because to me, that's the extreme of selfishness.

I want to offer my sincerest condolences to anyone who's lost a loved one to this senselessness; and to those who suffer in pain daily because they can't afford care. My heart goes out to you!


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## Unoppressed MAMA Q (Jun 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blu Razzberri* 

I honestly can't wrap my head around it when people say they don't want to have healthcare that covers everyone; and it makes me sick because to me, that's the extreme of selfishness.
[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

I won't get into all the different possibilities of different thought patterns-BUT

i don't think people who don't support the idea of 'universal' health care are inherently selfish.
personally, i don't see it as any real kind of solution, but it's not because i'm selfish.

there's a lot of thought that can go into a position that doesn't support these programs. it need not be as simple as selfishness.


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## PeacefulSeams (Apr 10, 2006)

My DS is on Basic Health through the state but DH makes too much money for us to be on it. Plus I am a high-risk and we live check to check.

Washington announced universal healthcare for children 18 and under whose parents make 300% times the poverty level. It won't go into effect until around 2010, but it's a start. They are also trying to get it for adults by the year 2013.


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## ILoveMyBabyBird (Sep 2, 2006)

Dh and I don't have health insurance at the moment, but ds is on a temporary health plan because he no longer qualifies for state aid, dh makes too much now, and beacause of some paperwork confusion, we did not get health coverage from dh's work last January. We will hopefully be getting on it in January. BTW--dh is not a citizen, but is here legally, ds and I are citizens.

I said I lost someone I love because of lack of insurance because of many years my mom went without hi, and finally got a job w/a decent plan, only to find she had cervical cancer. Only 4,000 women die of this annually because it is highly preventable. My mom didn't have health coverage so she did not go to the doctor until it had developed into stage 3 cancer. She was treated, thought it was gone, only to have it reappear 10 months later. She had an operation, finding it was spread, had to have a colonoscopy and died 7 months later.

Had there been universal healthcare, my mom would have been able to go to the doctor sooner. She was a single parent, we lived on average 14,000 a year, pay to pay check doesn't even describe it. She could not afford to spend even 100$ to go to planned parenthood, kwim?

I guess she is the main reason I think Universal Healthcare would greatly benefit the US.

Also because the working people are the ones hurting from the lack of universal healthcare. I mean, in order to get a "good" healthplan, you either have to be very wealthy, or sell your soul to big corporate america. Dh works for a independently owned franchise where the benefits are okay, but they cost way more than if he worked for a larger corporation, kwim? And what about the small business owners? And us SAHM's and WAHM's. UH, I think would benefit we, as the whole, rather than the big businesses, which is why I fear it will never happen, with our capitalistic, greedy, society.


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## MoonStarFalling (Nov 4, 2004)

We would love to have it just in case but we would be seriously struggling to pay the monthly premium even though dh's work pays more than half. I have asthma and hypertension and can't get treatment. My friend and her family went bankrupt a couple years ago after owing 80k for her surgeries and they had insurance.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Wow, this poll is depressing.


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## barose (Dec 6, 2006)

*(YES) I think universal health care is a great and necessary idea.*

Which is one the things I checked off.

Also:

*I want HCI, but we're too high risk and they refuse to cover us.*

Which is a huge reason why I have to WOH for a company or firm instead of freelance full-time which I could do, but there is no coverage for that.

DP works for himself and is refused coverage at this time also. We are fighting it though. He hasn't worked for anyone else in 20+ years so the chance of him getting a job with a salary comparable to what he's earning on his own at the age of 50 is pretty nil.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zenenlightened* 
My DS is on Basic Health through the state but DH makes too much money for us to be on it. Plus I am a high-risk and we live check to check.

Washington announced universal healthcare for children 18 and under whose parents make 300% times the poverty level. It won't go into effect until around 2010, but it's a start. They are also trying to get it for adults by the year 2013.

This is very interesting! Do you have a link? I had no idea this was happening.


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

I think the main difference between the health care systems we see in the States versus the rest of the developed world is that the US sees health care as a 'for profit business'.

In the rest of the world, health care is a service.

When you look at the US system, we see all of the problems inherent in running health care as a business. When health care is a business, then the bottom line profit is always going to be the most important thing - and NOT the health (or otherwise) of patients.

I'm American, but live in the UK. My dh occasionally talks about moving back to the States, but the health care situation in the States is a huge drawback for me. The NHS (National Health Service) is not perfect - but it is much, much better than the system that exists in the States.

The US spends much more on health care than almost any other country - and huge amounts of that is spent on the administration costs paid out _in order to deny claims!_

Running health care as a for profit business just doesn't make sense. And John McCain's solution is just more 'market forces' (forget the fact that health care is currently a mess because everything has been left up to 'market forces'), with the ultimate goal of shifting the cost of health care premiums _*away*_ from businesses (which will increase their profitability) and _*onto*_ the individual (who will have no leverage to negotiate better rates/etc, as they will be on their own).

For a very good explanation of how the US health care system got to where it is (with an illuminating analysis of how a few people got fabulously wealthy in the process of changing American health care from primarily 'non profit' to a 'for profit' business) can be found in 'Free Lunch' by David Cay Johnston.


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## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

We have HI. My husband is in the military.

I would love to see a system like the military uses across the nation. I know people gripe about military health care, but, really, I can't complain.

I'm always in shock, though, when I see our explanation of benefits at what the cost WOULD be w/o insurance. For example, I had to get an x-ray of my knee a couple of weeks ago, and my insurance company paid $35 and change. Without the insurance it would have been $345.

How can there be such a difference? Insanity.


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## apelilae (Oct 8, 2006)

We cannot afford it. When we had employer based health insurance and the employer paid half of the monthly premium, our portion was still $350/month with $30-40 co-pays on most treatment and it would not cover my $2000+ home birth. Because of this $350/month expense, we weren't quite making ends meet.

My husband switched jobs and we without health insurance, are making ends meet just fine. He's not eligible for another month, but even then, I don't think we can pay the $700 premium plus the outrageous co-pays.

We're considered extremely low risk too. It's very sad.

I fully support universal health care. I think Americans could do it so that we still have top-notch health care offered, but available to everyone -not just the well to do or well insured (as most Americans are seriously underinsured). I think it would also be a great step to take some of the insane money within the health care system that goes towards malpractice insurance premiums, product and drug marketing, and ideally lower the cost of education for those in the medical field.


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## ian'smommaya (Jun 7, 2004)

can we pick more than one?


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *apelilae* 
I think it would also be a great step to take some of the insane money within the health care system that goes towards malpractice insurance premiums, product and drug marketing, and ideally lower the cost of education for those in the medical field.

Yes, this.

Also - it's a HUGE amount of health care money that goes towards...*denying treatment to insured individuals.* Shocking, but not surprising when you run health care as a for-profit business, rather than a service (as most other developed countries do).


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ian'smommaya* 
can we pick more than one?

yes you can.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

At age 19 I was on my own. I had NO HI. I was suffering from reoccurring UTI's and went to the Hospital to get treated but they turned me away without antibiotics because I didn't have HI.

That left me with a lot of damage to my bladder. At age 23 I get HI and seek help for my bladder problems. I was DX with Interstitial Cystitis. My HI will _NOT_ cover it because they said it was a _Pre-Existing Condition_. It'll cost me $600 per treatment out of my own pocket. I'll need several per month for several months. I can't afford it. So I suffer in silence. I've suffered this pain for 11yrs now.









UHC will eliminate this lame excuse called, "Pre-Existing Condition". HI use this as a reason not to pay far too often.

They deny every 10th claim WITHOUT even looking at it anyways. Its so corrupted. They're in it to make money. They don't care about people, just their greedy money.

I saw SICKO too. At first I tried to see it at Grapevine Mills Mall. The ticket master said the theater room caught on fire. hmmm, controversial is it? So I waited till it was available on DVD. Its a sad American reality.


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

We all qualify for some state coverage, though it's much better for the kids than for me (unless I get pregnant again).


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## PenelopeJune (Jan 22, 2008)

I didn't vote. We have health insurance through my husband's work, but we still can't afford medical care. We don't go to the doctor because preventative care isn't covered, nor is "female" problems, stuff like gyn, mammograms, birth control, etc. So even though we have coverage, we STILL can't get care.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PenelopeJune* 
I didn't vote. We have health insurance through my husband's work, but we still can't afford medical care. We don't go to the doctor because preventative care isn't covered, nor is "female" problems, stuff like gyn, mammograms, birth control, etc. So even though we have coverage, we STILL can't get care.

Wow! That really sucks.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

NOne here, ever.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

nm


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## nancyw (Jul 8, 2005)

we have health insurance, but _really wanted to weigh in_.

our insurance is LOUSY--has a huge deductible which we of course will not meet by the end of this year, .....so we have paid for EVERYTHING for us, the kids, my monthly advair so I can breathe ($175.00 to fill each time), a sonogram for each girl for a condition they both have (about $1200.00 I think, but not sure), etc etc.

can't think of anything this country needs to be more aggressive in pursuing other than universal health care. (IMHO).

a friend who has no insurance just went to ER today with heart and breathing difficulty. put it off since last night because they are dirt poor, in debt, and afraid of paying the co-pay.

my two closing thoughts are these:

1) OP, your poll is awesome and Im so glad you've raised these questions for discussion. I think it would be equally as 'telling' to get similar questions answered from those who *do* have insurance, becuase that 'lifeboat.' so to speak, is full of holes and sinking!

2) I wish everybody in the US would take the time to see 'Sicko.'

rant over! thanks for the thread!


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitful womb* 
...I was suffering from reoccurring UTI's and went to the Hospital to get treated but they turned me away without antibiotics because I didn't have HI....That left me with a lot of damage to my bladder...









That's so sad. And unfortunately, it's a reality for many. A simple UTI that is so easily treated; yet you were not cared for.

I have a question for you specifically: does it bother you that your tax dollars didn't help you when you needed it; yet your country's military has obscene amounts of cash pumped into it? What are your thoughts about this?


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blu Razzberri* 








That's so sad. And unfortunately, it's a reality for many. A simple UTI that is so easily treated; yet you were not cared for.

I have a question for you specifically: does it bother you that your tax dollars didn't help you when you needed it; yet your country's military has obscene amounts of cash pumped into it? What are your thoughts about this?



Quote:

does it bother you that your tax dollars didn't help you when you needed it;
Yes it bothers me!
I'm angry that I was denied treatment. It would've been so much cheaper. The negligence aggravated my condition and its now by-far more expensive to treat and the insurance won't touch a penny of it because they consider it a "Pre-Existing Condition."









Quote:

yet your country's military has obscene amounts of cash pumped into it?
I tend to be bias towards the military because I have family in the military, so I'll just say this: I fully respect those who sacrifice so much in the name of our Country. Not just the solders but also their loved ones.

That said, the system I've seen in which they're in, needs to back off and stop abusing the families that serve our Country. To answer the second part of your question: Yes it irritates me that the majority of American Tax dollars goes towards a political gain for power and not necessarily for the people of our Nation.

Money is the root of all kinds of evil. The money thats being "pumped" into the military fuels their insanity and its driving them to police other countries. We're driving blind. I'd say, we sure could use a little policing ourselves. I'm all for guidance and examples y'k. But it seems the American system is crippled with pride. There is great struggle in humility so we just keep telling ourselves, "They'll follow us, you just wait and see." When the truth is, the rest of the developed world is laughing at us!

This is why I have high hopes for Obama. He knows a change is needed and he has the brilliance to make it work.

There is no ONE perfect system. Those who say, "We're a work in progress" will always have room for improvement and it only gets better. But if you tell yourself, "The system is just fine the way it is." Then, not only will a sloth stalk you in your tracks, the walls of the system will deteriorate and the foundation shall be corrupted. This is already happening.

I do believe if America establishes a Universal Health Care it will be much like how the military runs their health system. Private Insurances will fight to stay in business. They'll probably stick around for awhile so those in favor of shelling out tons of cash to the Insurance Company only to have them deny pre-existing coverage can still do so. At least, if it runs this way, someone with a simple UTI can get the treatment she or he deserves.


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## Ifluffedthree (Dec 3, 2004)

I voted.

I live paycheck to paycheck and carry some debt.

I do feel there are needs for change but don't know that Universal Care is the answer.
I can say that if I had the wait as other countries demand for health care I would not be here typing this post.

I am a widow of three children -- one of which has extended & multiple medical needs for years.
I myself have had Catastrophic medical needs and feel the importance of insurances both medcial and life during the child rearing years.

I cannot emphasize enough how important BOTH are in the event of a sudden illness or a sudden death of a young partner. We fortunately provided BOTH for our young family vs. the luxury items and it WAS our survival for our family through sudden organ loss and the sudden death of my 36 year old husband. I hope there will be some seed planted here.

back to your insurance topic.

I am below poverty level, raising my children and am eligible for State CHIP Program medical coverage for my children. I choose to pay for Premium "Indemnity" (most people have no clue what indemnity even is these days) & Major Medical Insurance for my family and drive an older vehicle and do without a new wardrobe and eating out and many other luxuries to do so. Someone else currently can have bene's that I am able to have.

It is a matter of priority and responsibility. If you can fill up your tank in your nice ride with a car payment, you can provide your children and family with the safety of insurance for good health. As adults we have a responsibility to ensure we are here to raise our children and provide for them, and to ensure they have adequate care --- choosing anything less is foolish and carelessness to our children.


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## Ifluffedthree (Dec 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momuveight2B* 
Planned Parenthood used to offer these and birth control for a very reasonable cost on a sliding fee scale. When I was a student we could go to the student health clinic on campus and get both for free.


there are resources available and out there, sometimes it takes a little work to find them but once you open the door to those available they will also lead to additional sources.

another example to reduced/free/adequate care. here in Pittsburgh, we have the University Medical School Facility. We have a dental school program that offers dental services and orthodontics. We had my dd braces done at such facility at a significant reduced rate.
There are often times programs at reduced rates that are useful to those with limited resources, but they take time and a little work to find --- but are available to most just like the well baby clinics for care, and women's clinics.


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## mmace (Feb 12, 2002)

My kids have health insurance - they are covered under their father's plan - but I have been uninsured since our divorce was finalized in February. I visited every doctor I could before that happened - my primary, my gyn, had a pap, had a mamogram - so right now I'm not sweating having no insurance, but it would be devestating financially if something happened to me. I joke around that if anyone gets sick in the house it has to be one of the kids, because we can't afford for mommy to get sick.


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## Ifluffedthree (Dec 3, 2004)

while I agree with much of your post I wanted to point something out that I found lacking about the US coverage and being privately run.

While there are HUGE problems and greed attached to Privately run US Health Care -- it is the Privately Run US Health Care that is the most innovative and aggressive when it comes to research and development of new medical technology. It is the US Hospital Facilities that many come to from around the world to save the most desperate because we have the technology and the tools and the latest developement because it is competitive and run as a business.
Funding for research does not happen if the product can't be marketed. This does not happen in Universal Care -- the innovative edge is lost and the next child who could have been saved by a new cancer research is now lost to running a care system on the flat line of norm.
I have had a $210,000.00 surgical experience and had I been in another country or even a less aggressive facility I would have died. My surgeon is from Bolivia and he travels to Europe for International Conferences to stay up to date annually. He has told me that I should NO LONGER travel outside the US that if I would have another bowel obstruction I would die because the international facilities are far less superior and capable to handle what the leading US facilities can do. I listen -- this from a man who lives here from another country, went to Medical School in Argentina and was on the Staff at a top 100 facility here for a reason.

So while I may not have the right perspective on this -- it is indeed a different one to consider and add to the pot.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommiska* 
I think the main difference between the health care systems we see in the States versus the rest of the developed world is that the US sees health care as a 'for profit business'.

In the rest of the world, health care is a service.

When you look at the US system, we see all of the problems inherent in running health care as a business. When health care is a business, then the bottom line profit is always going to be the most important thing - and NOT the health (or otherwise) of patients.

I'm American, but live in the UK. My dh occasionally talks about moving back to the States, but the health care situation in the States is a huge drawback for me. The NHS (National Health Service) is not perfect - but it is much, much better than the system that exists in the States.

The US spends much more on health care than almost any other country - and huge amounts of that is spent on the administration costs paid out _in order to deny claims!_

Running health care as a for profit business just doesn't make sense. And John McCain's solution is just more 'market forces' (forget the fact that health care is currently a mess because everything has been left up to 'market forces'), with the ultimate goal of shifting the cost of health care premiums _*away*_ from businesses (which will increase their profitability) and _*onto*_ the individual (who will have no leverage to negotiate better rates/etc, as they will be on their own).

For a very good explanation of how the US health care system got to where it is (with an illuminating analysis of how a few people got fabulously wealthy in the process of changing American health care from primarily 'non profit' to a 'for profit' business) can be found in 'Free Lunch' by David Cay Johnston.


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## Ifluffedthree (Dec 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mmace* 
My kids have health insurance - they are covered under their father's plan - but I have been uninsured since our divorce was finalized in February. I visited every doctor I could before that happened - my primary, my gyn, had a pap, had a mamogram - so right now I'm not sweating having no insurance, but it would be devestating financially if something happened to me. I joke around that if anyone gets sick in the house it has to be one of the kids, because we can't afford for mommy to get sick.

I hope you can do what you can soon and get mommy protected. You were very smart to handle all the visits prior until you can get back to a more solid position. I admire you for thinking ahead for yourself and your children with good preventative stuff. Stay well mommy.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

We have health insurance, but it sucks. We pay the first $4,500 out of pocket. When I was pregnant I did without the zofran and just puked and puked and puked for 3 months. I could not afford $640 every 2 weeks. So I suffered. I had to save the $ to come up with the $4,500 so I could afford the birth. I can not buy medications that are needed due to not being able to come up with $ in hand all the time. The insurance sucks, but it is good in that if we have a MAJOR catastrophe we won't go bankrupt over it. We will just have to sell off some stuff or take a loan or a cash advance on a credit card to get the $4,500. Yeah, it sucks, but such is life. DH is a professional engineer/senior project engineer so its not like he has an entry level job at MickyD's.

I don't see how to fix it so everyone can get the care they want/need. Who is going to pay for it? Have more taken out in taxes? Well, there goes our grocery money. So I really can't support the idea of paying more in taxes since then we will do without something else. And if the government is paying for my care, will they decide what care I need or don't need, or what provider I can or can't see? That scares me, too. I wish there was a magic answer and solution.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Well actually, universal health care is cheaper.

Quote:

The fact that we're healthier than Americans is astounding when you realize that they spend enough per person each year on health care to buy each and every one of them a slightly used Honda Civic. In 2005 their combined public and private expenditure was US$6,401 per person, while we spent just US$3,326.
http://www.macleans.ca/science/healt...25_19351_19351

The government does not limit our choices or make our decisions, especially not like insurance does in the U.S. We can see any doctor. We don't have to worry about who is in network or who accepts our insurance, etc.

Plus, there are so many universal health care systems that it is not a monolithic thing that has the same drawbacks in every place.


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## Ifluffedthree (Dec 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
Well actually, universal health care is cheaper.

http://www.macleans.ca/science/healt...25_19351_19351

The government in the US does not limit our choices or make our decisions in private care.

Plus, there are so many universal health care systems that it is not a monolithic thing that has the same drawbacks in every place.


I walk into a doctors office that I choose. My insurances have changed over the years and I have been with several of my same Drs. for 20+ years. Different insurance providers participate in negotiating with different hospitals and groups. The individual person has the choice of which group or insurance company they wish to select which in turn designates exactly which doctors they can see. It is ultimately up to the individual or the company the individual chooses to work for that select to carry their insurance.

I have watched over the years, two of my friends in Canada deal with Cancer and another recently with a possible cancer -- the wait times to get in with the doctors for them was about 4 or more times what it takes here to see a specialist.

my son had a 1.5 inch tumor removed from his face on May 14th at 9:00 am. He was in Oncology with an entire pediatric specialty team at 1:00 pm the next day at a different hospital.

My friend who lives in Montreal and I, often make comparisons about how long services take to receive in Canada.

Here in the US there are also several levels of insurances that people can choose to pay for. These also determine the freedoms you have by which to move around the Doctors Networking in that plan. It is not run by the insurance, one can choose a different company or plan -- the choice remains with the person or where the person chooses employment. Regardless there are choices. To my understanding this is not typical of Universal coverage. I fear in the long run -- if we do go to Universal Coverage -- we will get exactly that in coverage ---- cheaper.


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## Ifluffedthree (Dec 3, 2004)

in thinking about this topic I decided to do a little additional number digging.

as I said my son had a tumor in May. We were very blessed when God said NO to it being a Rhabdomyosarcoma and it ended up a Giant Cell Angiofibroma. However, in addition to being seen immediately at Pittsburgh Children's Hospital Oncology team we were also set into motion to be on a plane with child and tumor to St. Jude's in Memphis TN the day after surgery. In talking with them they had 115 other children there with this exact same cancer from all over the world. All over the world. To me this says a lot.
I have spent 47 days in a hospital bed to have an understanding of what good care is about -- some of that in progressive and ICU units. I have a great appreciation for the competitive nature our US hospitals have as it gives Me the consumer footing the bill better care, better care for my children and for their children through top notch research.
We are the leaders in the medical industry for a reason. But with that comes a price.

In looking a bit more the US is 10th on the list with the number of hosptial's in the world with a little over 6,000. http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top...itals-map.html

I was surprised to find this list of the WORLD's top ranking of 1000 hospitals. We go to Universal we can kiss much of this goodbye. See for yourself and hopefully be glad you live in a country with so many good choices in your own back yard.
http://hospitals.webometrics.info/top1000.asp?offset=0


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

None of my family has had any wait with cancer. I have never had a wait either. My hernia surgery was scheduled so fast, I couldn't get child care in time.

Health care is not fantastic in the U.S. Look at infant mortality rates, which is a huge indicator of a nation's health.

Quote:

he study analyzed surveys of more than 8,000 people and found that not only are Canadians thinner and more active than Americans, but we're less likely to have almost any disease you can think of, including diabetes, asthma, heart disease and major depression. International comparisons by other groups have since proved beyond a doubt that the hale Canadian is alive and well, literally. When you look at lifespan and infant mortality - the leading indicators of a country's health - we beat the Americans hands down. Canadian men now have life expectancies of 77.8 years, compared to 75.2 years in the U.S., while our women are living 82.6 years compared to 80.4 years south of the border. Meanwhile we have only 5.3 infant deaths for every 1,000 live births, compared to 6.8 in the States.


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## jdedmom (Jul 11, 2006)

We have HI through DHs work. We are all covered for around $260 per month including perscription coverage.


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

When we lived in the states DH was a teacher but we couldn't afford the healthcare premiums. Our children were covered by Medicaid but DH and I didn't have any insurance. For our children coverage was really good, especially when we learned DS had cancer and had to have multiple surgeries and aftercare. DH and I didn't really have any health issues except for our teeth. . .I ended up losing two teeth because we couldn't afford for me to have preventive care, root canals, or crowns. Now DH works for the Department of Defense and we have okay insurance (we pay about $600 a month and have a 30% copay for doctor visits. . .20% for hospital care). Here in Japan healthcare is pretty cheap, adult doctor visits are about 5000 yen (a little less than $50 and all meds are usually included in this price); child doctor visits are 2000 yen (less than $20 and always have included all prescriptions)--actually since this is so inexpensive we rarely claim these appts with our insurance. We've contemplated dropping our American insurance, but DS will need some reconstruction surgery later (we will let him choose when to do this since it's a pretty complicated and painful experience) and since he has had cancer we worry about taking him off insurance because of the whole pre-existing condition worry. I absolutely think there should be a Universal Healthcare System. . .I would much rather my $600 a month go into that rather than go to my insurance company.

Another issue, my mom recently was placed in a nursing home in the states. She was a high fall risk and wasn't monitored properly, she fell and broke her hip. She was moved into another nursing home where she has received better care, but her insurance will only pay for 100 days. My dad can't take her home because he can't take care of her (he's 84 and she's 74). He found an attorney in Florida, but the attorney said that a couple years ago legislation was passed that protected nursing homes and made it so they didn't have to have very much malpractice insurance--the attorney said that my dad could sue, but he wouldn't get anything out of it (nursing homes also can put their profits into offshore accts so they can't be touched--love that legislation huh). Anyway, now he is going to have to move into an assisted living facility with her that they will have to pay for out of their savings (oh, AFLAC will pay 1/6th of the cost). . .he said since they have to pay for that he will no longer be able to pay to golf (which I think is what has been keeping him in such good condition all these years). Healthcare in America sucks!! It's one of the reasons I really never want to live there again. . .but I will vote and hopefully someday more people will demand change.


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## mmace (Feb 12, 2002)

Quote:

I hope you can do what you can soon and get mommy protected. You were very smart to handle all the visits prior until you can get back to a more solid position. I admire you for thinking ahead for yourself and your children with good preventative stuff. Stay well mommy.
Thank you so much! For now I'm just going to have to stay uninsured, I have two part-time jobs that I work around my kids schedules so I can always be on Mommy-Duty for school/taxi-service/etc.


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## anitaj71 (Mar 1, 2006)

Quote:

Here in the US there are also several levels of insurances that people can choose to pay for. These also determine the freedoms you have by which to move around the Doctors Networking in that plan. It is not run by the insurance, one can choose a different company or plan -- the choice remains with the person or where the person chooses employment. Regardless there are choices. To my understanding this is not typical of Universal coverage. I fear in the long run -- if we do go to Universal Coverage -- we will get exactly that in coverage ---- cheaper.
Private healthcare is wonderful. IF one has the money or a good insurance provider and I think that's the point. The average person cannot afford 'private' excellent care.

What happenned to your friends in Canada because of the wait times to see a specialist? Did something bad happen?

There is not perfect system. However I will take a system that treats everyone from the poor to the wealthy.

I think the problem can be sometimes with universal systems is if one has the money to pay they can't get ahead in the line of get treated at a private facility because there are none. New Zealand has a two tiered system I believe that works very well.


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## 77589 (Mar 7, 2007)

I voted because if DH's company didn't pay for our insurance we wouldn't be able to afford it. Had he not changed jobs we were considering taking our state's dirt cheap (which probably would have been free for us) insurance for the kids and dropping DH and my insurance.


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ifluffedthree* 
I was surprised to find this list of the WORLD's top ranking of 1000 hospitals. We go to Universal we can kiss much of this goodbye. See for yourself and hopefully be glad you live in a country with so many good choices in your own back yard.
http://hospitals.webometrics.info/top1000.asp?offset=0

might want to check out how these were ranked


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ifluffedthree* 
while I agree with much of your post I wanted to point something out that I found lacking about the US coverage and being privately run.

While there are HUGE problems and greed attached to Privately run US Health Care -- it is the Privately Run US Health Care that is the most innovative and aggressive when it comes to research and development of new medical technology. It is the US Hospital Facilities that many come to from around the world to save the most desperate because we have the technology and the tools and the latest developement because it is competitive and run as a business.

Funding for research does not happen if the product can't be marketed. This does not happen in Universal Care -- the innovative edge is lost and the next child who could have been saved by a new cancer research is now lost to running a care system on the flat line of norm.

I realise this is coming from your personal experience and what you have been told, but I would be interested in seeing studies that show that the US innovates more than other countries. Or that countries with nationalised health care do not innovate. I suspect that while there might be truth in the first, that the later is false.

I would tend to reject, as well, the claim the US is providing state of the art care that people don't/can't get elsewhere. If you look at comparison tables of quality of health care received in the States vs. countries with universal care, the US does not fare well.

And here is a huge reason:

http://sev.prnewswire.com/insurance/...0032007-1.html

Quote:

Administration associated with health care claims and billing accounts for nearly *one out of every three dollars* that patients spend on health care, according to a nationwide survey of executives from hospitals and insurance companies.
Competition, while it may encourage innovation, also encourages companies to increase their bottom line profit. Which means there is a huge incentive for insurance companies to both deny legitimate claims, if they can get away with it, and to drop more expensive patients who are actually going to make expensive claims.

We know that US insurance companies routinely do both of these things.

No system will be perfect. But I will take a system that treats rich, poor and middle class alike over one in which only some people receive necessary treatment any day.


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Just wanted to give this link to a World Health Organisation report which compared health care deliverance in countries around the world.

http://www.who.int/whr/2000/annex/en/index.html

If you click on the Annex Table 10 at the very bottom, that will take you to a spreadsheet, where you can see the overall rankings on health care deliverance/outcomes for different countries in the WHO survey.

Despite the fact that the US spends more health care dollars per capita than any other country, it ranks only *37th* in overall health care performance.

Lots of countries with nationalised health care perform far and away better than the US. But the US spends far and away more money.

The US health care system is broken. If we want to fix it, we better run far, far away from John McCain, as he is only promising more of the same (i.e., more power for insurance companies and less for individual patients).


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

:
Mommiska,

I love how you're so brilliantly well spoken!









I'm thinking of dropping my Health Insurance. We can't afford co-pay yet we're shelling out $700.00 per month to cover our entire family. I don't know why I didn't drop H.I. sooner they deny just about every claim anyways, so not only are we _paying_ them to PAY our claims (which they don't 70% of the time) but the money paid to them is breaking us, and our food cubbord.

I'll just have to do a lot of home herbal remedies to compensate. That shouldn't be too bad. Or, I bet when we have the extra income we'll have more to pay out of pocket for any health attention....

There is that fear that they'll shun us away because we don't have H.I. even if we do have the money.


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitful womb* 
I'm thinking of dropping my Health Insurance. We can't afford co-pay yet we're shelling out $700.00 per month to cover our entire family. I don't know why I didn't drop H.I. sooner they deny just about every claim anyways, so not only are we _paying_ them to PAY our claims (which they don't 70% of the time) but the money paid to them is breaking us, and our food cubbord.

If you do drop your insurance, will you be to at least save a portion of that $700? The reason I ask, is what if something unexpected did happen that herbals and homeopathics can't cure, or cure quickly enough would you still be able to go to the ER or have longer term care? Unfortunately in our medical system, insurance companies are sticklers when it comes to pre-existing conditions or taking on new clients who have gone without health insurance for a period of time (my MIL who worked as a claims person for a while said this was the main way insurance companies invalidated claims--one person went for just several months without insurance and they hit her with that when she got cancer). These are the reasons we keep paying for our insurance, heck, I think we've only claimed one or two things in the last year. . .but we're scared of the what-ifs (and DS has that pre existing condition mentioned in a pp).


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommiska* 
Also - it's a HUGE amount of health care money that goes towards...*denying treatment to insured individuals.* Shocking, but not surprising when you run health care as a for-profit business, rather than a service (as most other developed countries do).

We have private insurance through my employer - a PPO plan that is supposed to cover any out of network provider (except "alternative providers"














after you meet your deductible. We have been more than $2000 past the deductible for DP since June and they are STILL denying her out of network claims. It is amazing.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
None of my family has had any wait with cancer. I have never had a wait either. My hernia surgery was scheduled so fast, I couldn't get child care in time.

Health care is not fantastic in the U.S. Look at infant mortality rates, which is a huge indicator of a nation's health.

Neither has my mom. She's survived cancer twice, as has several of our relatives. One uncle has been fighting it for 20 years and is finally in a long term remission. Anyhow my mom this week saw a doctor, doesn't like the look of a couple moles on her back. She's having them removed next week.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

DH and I are so totally white-bread it hurts, we both work, own our house, make enough to make ends meet (with careful budgeting) have a little in savings, are young 24 and 23, and can't afford HCI. Just can't do it, we've looked and there is nothing in our budget range thats worth anything.

I tripped and hurt my back 2 years ago and had to go to the ER about $6k later, we're finally done paying the bill. We did qualify to have the hospital bill waved, but the DR the ambulance, the Xray and something else, I am missing, was about $6k.

There are always exceptions to the rules, horrible illness that a hospital in socialized health care can't cover, the wait for needed medical care, blah blah. It boils down to the average white-bread family can't afford and doesn't have HCI. I hate to throw out names, but Obamas HCI plan that requires employers to offer HCI then gives breaks and incentives is _a step in the right direction_. Even my boss who has 8 employees likes the idea.


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## lovin'leo (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
None of my family has had any wait with cancer. I have never had a wait either. My hernia surgery was scheduled so fast, I couldn't get child care in time.

Health care is not fantastic in the U.S. Look at infant mortality rates, which is a huge indicator of a nation's health.

Neither did my dad. They had him in surgery to remove it within a few days of finding the cancer. Sadly, they hadn't realized it was cancer for many months after he started showing symptoms (stomach cancer, his main system was indigestion, they figured it was ulcers, which he'd had before, plus he didn't go to the doctor immediately because well...what does indigestion have to do with a serious disease?) and he didn't make it, but it had nothing to do with the speed he was treated and everything to do with the tendency of doctors everywhere to look for the simplest, easiest explanation & only do more testing if that turns out to be the wrong diagnosis.

This poll makes me really sad for all of those without decent health care. And really baffled about the misconceptions and fear surrounding universal health care.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Dh is a self-employed contractor so we pay for all our insurance. My insurance comapny decided that since I had PPD and quit antidepressants _over 2 years ago_ that I was still high risk and I am paying $428 per month for insurance that would normally cost $100. We have high deducable insurance and we apy $700 per month. This is our last month...we simply cannot afford to pay out all this cash and then pay $120 per dr visit and have claims recpedly denied! I cannot tell you how much stress Blue Shield (and Blue Cross) has caused me over the years. I usually get off the phone with them defeated and crying. People them tell me to challenge the denial and I do but they just come right back with a big NO. How much of my life can I spend pursuing (deserved) payment from these giant companies.

We have paid THOUSANDS out of pocket in medical bills because they are somehow able to weasel their way out of paying them. For example, they are supposed to pay 90% of allowable charges for a homebirth. They paid LESS THAN HALF because they decided the charges are not ALLOWABLE. The whole dang bill was only $3,000 for prenatals, brith, post natals ect!!! My midwives even use a medical biller who is a pro at getting the maximum amount out of the insurance company. She said she actually had to quit for a while because she was so distressed at claims being constantly denied or barely paid. My husband worked off most of it at the midwives' home because they needed some repairs, thank goodness he could do that!

We are joining something call Christian Healthcare Ministries http://www.chministries.org/links.asp where you share other people's medical expenses with them. It is not insurnace but helps cover major medical bills as well as homebirth. I cannot tell you how much I am looking forward to cancelling my insurance.

I don't know the solution. I am generally a libertarian in most things...this one really makes me think that there must be a better way. We are talking about human lives here and there seems to be no simple answer. I have to go because my blood is starting to boil just discussing this again.

Jen


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