# Why won't they just lock her in her room at night?



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I'm not a fan of locking her in a room at night...

But, these parents sleep through everything.

She's two, and she gets up at night. Every night. She has...

Colored on herself with sharpies (repeadetly)

Gotten Dad's razor that in the SAME ROOM AS MOM AND DAD, and cut her hand up.

Been found asleep on the kitchen counters with a fully eaten box of poptarts.

Eats all the food she can find.

Leaves the fridge open all night.

has opened the back door. Left that open.

It's only a matter of time before she eats something dangerous, or heaven forbid opens the front door?

She's not a normal two year old. I think she can scale walls. Eventually she will learn to unlock even the highest lock.

They have a pool What if she figures out the lock to the pool gate? She swims like a fish.. but what if she hurts herself then falls in?

I have offered to help them rearrange the bedrooms so that she can sleep alone in one room, and I will GIVE them a baby gate (or two) to lock her in safely. They can put a lock on the outside of her door. They can remove everything dangerous, so she can get up and play if she wants.

If they cant/wont wake up when she's tearing the house apart...even when she's in their own room... shouldn't they take precautions to keep her safe? She does this every single night. It's not occasionally. It's every night.


----------



## party_of_seven (May 10, 2004)

That is scarry! They don't need to actually lock her in her room. They make alars for doors and windows that cost very little. They could just put one on her door and close it at night and then turn the alarm on. That way if she wakes and tries to leave her room the alarm will wake the parents so they can usher her back to bed.

I can't believe that the parents aren't more concerned about this.


----------



## fairymom (Sep 15, 2008)

nak

instead of locking her in- which i'm not completely against as a very last resort- how about one of those door alarms that go off when the door is opened? or the parents setting an alarm clock for a bit before she normally wakes up?

i had to put slide locks at the top of my outside doors to make ds4 didn't escape- he did once before luckily the police found him.


----------



## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

why aren't they waking up during this? are they drug users or something?

it's really really scary that they aren't more concerned.


----------



## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

When my oldest started doing this, we put a child proof door knob cover on the inside of his door. It seemed like a mean thing to do but we had to keep him safe.

I was terrified that he would leave the house.


----------



## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
why aren't they waking up during this? are they drug users or something?


My DS could do it without waking me up and I had an infant. He was being sneaky.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
why aren't they waking up during this? are they drug users or something?

it's really really scary that they aren't more concerned.


No. They try to work opposite shifts, so I think they are just really tired. And, they just sleep through it. I don't know how. I hear everything. So, I don't understand it.

But, still.. if you know this is GOING to happen, why not find a way to put a stop to it?

I don't think those alarms would wake them up either. If she was rummaging in the master bathroom without waking anybody, I doubt they'd hear an alarm on her door.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

can two year olds be sneaky?


----------



## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *funkymamajoy* 
My DS could do it without waking me up and I had an infant. He was being sneaky.

But you had a reasonable response of extreme concern and taking action to prevent it from happening again. The lack of concern on the part of the parents discussed in the OP is terrifying!


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

We recently had a three year old in our general area who was very badly injured when he was hit by a car - at 1 in the morning. He got out. It was tragic.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
can two year olds be sneaky?

She's not very good at it. Which just means she doesn't care, and sees no reason to sneak.. since she's planning to do it anyway.

But, yes. Two year olds can be sneaky. They just don't hide it well.


----------



## AstridS (Mar 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
No. They try to work opposite shifts, so I think they are just really tired. And, they just sleep through it. I don't know how. I hear everything. So, I don't understand it.

But, still.. if you know this is GOING to happen, why not find a way to put a stop to it?

I don't think those alarms would wake them up either. If she was rummaging in the master bathroom without waking anybody, I doubt they'd hear an alarm on her door.

Why do they have to put her in her own room? They could just put an alarm on the door to the masterbedroom and keep co-sleeping. That way they are closer to the alarm and may hear it better. And their daughter doesn't loose the benefits of co-sleeping.


----------



## jennydecki (Jun 8, 2009)

We put a lock on the inside of the playroom door and our door stays locked. The girls have access to their bedroom, the back bathroom (only the toilet because we turned off the water to the sink) and the playroom with their toys.

The lock is at the absolute highest point on the door, because they figured out how to unlock a regular lock, popped the doorknob cover open using a toy as a crowbar, and used toys to stack and climb to get the first lock unlatched.

I am a heavy sleeper - so is my husband. At one point we set an alarm but then it would wake the kids up if they weren't awake when the alarm went off, making them crabby and miserable until nap time.

You have to do something to keep your kids safe - even if it means they are locked in somewhere separate from where you are. If one of the girls falls or gets hurt (or if they just get hungry) they come knock on our door and wake us up. But generally they prefer to have time to themselves without parents being around and when we wake up they know they'll get breakfast right away and snugs and love...so it's worked out well for us.

Of course it probably helps there are two of them (3 and 4) I don't know how it would work with just one...but if there are safe toys and board books available, a little independent play time is not a bad thing, in my opinion.

Oh - for safety purposes the girls' beds don't have frames and we took the doors off the closet (they played with them and we got scared) so other than safe stuff it's pretty sparse in the playroom and their bedroom and the back bathroom.


----------



## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

This was one reason I had for cosleeping -- I remember wandering the house in the dead of night as a child.


----------



## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Close friends of ours had a similar problem with their youngest who would get into all sorts of trouble in the middle of the night. The worst being he would leave house and wander the neighborhood. It was crazy.

They had a pool and lived on a heavily travelled street. The kid would leave the house in the middle of the night and wander about at 3-4 years old. Sometimes a neighbor would find him, other times the only clue was a wide-open door.

Their attitude was la la la, oh gee, he got out again? I never understood it.

The parents should be able to find wireless door/window alarms at any major retailer for $5 a peice.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AstridS* 
Why do they have to put her in her own room? They could just put an alarm on the door to the masterbedroom and keep co-sleeping. That way they are closer to the alarm and may hear it better. And their daughter doesn't loose the benefits of co-sleeping.


She's always had her own room. But, once she started climbing out of her crib, they took it down and got her a twin bed.


----------



## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Jennidecki: I'm so sorry, don't take this the wrong way...but imagining your kids using a toy as a crowbar to pop a locked door...had me in between fits of laughter and sheer terror at what is to come for me, on my own parenting path! Your kids sound like hethens(sp)!! (the GOOD kind! the kind I hope to have!)









As for us....my DH is a very light sleeper...I used to be a heavier sleeper, like...could sleep through ANYTHING heavy...now, since having a baby, my ears are fine tuned to any of the noises associated with babies/sneaking around, etc...my DD is 13 mos old...she is extremely sneaky...it is SO funny to watch! She;ll look at me in the night, decide that I'm sleeping...and roll over, then look at me again...roll over again, so her feet are hanging off the bed...then, she looks at me and sloooooowly sliiiides backward, off the bed, with the funniest face on her, wide eyes, mouth scrunched up into a tiny "o"...(it is SO hard to pretend to be sleeping while she's doing this...and if she can make out the tiniest little smile on my face, she knows I'm awake and will start laughing) and then, her little head disappears...and she's LOOSE! She quietly craaawwwlls out of the room and goes t find her toys!

I know she's sneaking, because she goes sooo slowly off the bed, when we both knows she can practically JUMP down....that and because she crawls quietly out of the room...when she's not "sneaking" she NEVER crawls..she knows how to walk and is almost running! So...she is trying not to wake me...whether it's to be nice, or to try and get away with mischief, I don't know...either way it's cute as hell.

OP....this baby child waking up on the counter, box of eaten poptarts next to her...FREAKS me out...the first time that happens, it's funny....there doens't need to be a second time, for the reason mentioned by another poster...once a kid learns the basic function of door locks, etc they can get into and out of ANYTHING...including the front door. Something that stands 3 feet off the ground, should NOT be wandering outside, alone, in the night...that's a recipe for terrible, terrible tragedy.

I don't know what to tell you to DO, because I'm not a huge fan of getting in other peoples business and telling them what to do....but I'd say bring up with them, next time you're around, that a lady you know, told you about a three year old who got out and was hit by a car and that it reminded you of their little one and made you worry...mention the door alarm, etc...but beyond that, I wouldn't push with them...I know it's hard to bite your tongue at stuff like this...


----------



## camracrazy (May 27, 2006)

I would be concerned that the parents DON'T seem concerned!

A couple of years ago my DH called me from work just devastated. He had just gotten a call that the 2 yo son of his cousin had drowned. The little boy had woken up before his parents did, let himself out the front door, and made his way to a nearby pond. It CAN and DOES happen.


----------



## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

wow, if my kid got out like that i would have them sleep in my room at least. then lock us all in. that way id they do wake up i will still be there.

i wake up at every little sound though. DD turns over in her bed in her room and i wake up.

with DS though, i slept through it. the morning i woke up to find my 2 yo DS on top of the fridge with hot cocoa mix all over him, was the day i bought a gate to put in his doorway. that way he could yell to make me wake up, play in his safe room, but not get out. that scared me. i tell him that story all the time. he thinks it is funny. it is now, but not then. he was such a monkey boy. DD is the same, but i wake easier now for some reason....


----------



## jennydecki (Jun 8, 2009)

@AverysMomma I feel the SAME way!!! I'm proud and horrified all at once. You want to be all, "No! Don't do that!" but you kind of WANT them to do that because it encourages learning and exploration and....yeah...I'm screwed...LOL (am I allowed to say that on the board? I'm sorry if that's considered cussing)

I thought of something else. This might be a wee bit extreme, but you could call the police. As a formerly falsely-accused victim of the child services system I cringe to say it out loud...but...better that than a dead kid.

I remember the first time my 1.5yo got out of the house - when the people at the end of the walk she'd gone out to play with brought her back to the front door I swear I died a little inside...and put a lock on the inside of the door.

(Yes, my house has latch locks EVERYWHERE - it's fun to watch guests try and get out of the house or into rooms that are locked - they forget...)


----------



## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
She's not very good at it. Which just means she doesn't care, and sees no reason to sneak.. since she's planning to do it anyway.

But, yes. Two year olds can be sneaky. They just don't hide it well.

Hee, agreed. My DS is pretty obvious when he wants to me to leave at night so that he can play instead of sleep.









But yeah... all of that is very, VERY scary. It makes me think *I* should do more, have more gates up, etc. DS hasn't yet come out of his room and done any of this, but he certainly could if he wanted to. I would probably wake up, but there's no guarantee of that.


----------



## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Have you said things like, "Oh my god, aren't you afraid she'll get hurt or find her way outside?!?" How do they respond? Are they just somehow completely clueless or do they really not see a problem with a 2yo being alone for hours at night and getting into dangerous things? How well do they supervise her during the day?

This sounds neglectful to me -- allowing her to hurt herself repeatedly when it would be relatively easy to keep her safe is just not okay.


----------



## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

In addition to what everyone else has already mentioned, I'm wondering why this child is so hungry at night. Is she getting enough to eat during the day?


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

I won't be popular for saying this, but if I knew this family and knew about all this happening, I couldn't not call cps and be ok with myself. This little girls parents are neglecting her - and something needs to be done about it before something happens to her.


----------



## MommaFox (Jul 21, 2008)

We had to put a lock on #1 son's door. He got out and got into My husband's medicine, thenthe cats' medicine, then he got out of the house in a bad neighborhood, and we lived on the 2nd floor with rather treacherous back stairs (We caught him before he got away) he ate 3/4 of each of a dozen peaches. He got into so many things so many times that we really had no choice (since he was big enough to climb over a gate and skinny ehough to shinny under if we put it higher in the door. He's old enough now to know better, but we're ready for the little one now. We live in a different house in a better area and have bells on the front door.
I hope these parents are more dilligent in the future.


----------



## JollyGG (Oct 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionessMom* 

with DS though, i slept through it. the morning i woke up to find my 2 yo DS on top of the fridge with hot cocoa mix all over him, was the day i bought a gate to put in his doorway. that way he could yell to make me wake up, play in his safe room, but not get out. that scared me. i tell him that story all the time. he thinks it is funny. it is now, but not then. he was such a monkey boy. DD is the same, but i wake easier now for some reason....

I'm just curious. If the kid can scale the fridge - how is a baby gate keeping him in his room?


----------



## mamassong (Jan 28, 2009)

getting ahold of the razor and cutting herself really scares me! and of course, getting out of the house. This is foreign to me. My two _always_ come and get me before they'll even go in the living room by themselves. I can't imagine them opening the front door by themselves. Sometimes I wish they would go and get themselves a snack! But not in the middle of the night. It's really wild how kids are SO different.


----------



## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I think they should lock everything dangerous up and have her sleep with them in their room. An alarm is also a very good idea. I would also wonder why she is restless at night but they are dead to the world. Perhaps they need to take turns napping during the day so they sleep later at night and can keep their child safe. If they are absolutely unwilling to try to keep their child safe then I do think you should report them to CPS even though that is a terrible solution. The child is in very real danger and they really need to take steps to try to keep her safe even if it is a hard thing to do.


----------



## montlake (Mar 13, 2008)

Actually to be fair, the OP does not address the parent's level of concern at all. She does not give their response to her offer of help, or any commentary she has heard from them regarding the situation. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if they were unconcerned and turned down her offer based on the original post, but I'm just saying, we don't KNOW their level of concern at all. So maybe that should be the first question. How did they respond when you offered to help?


----------



## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Sometimes people who feel overwhelmed, embarrassed, or judged won't give their true feelings or discuss attempts to fix issues, so I don't think we can judge. Their casual attitude is based on one person's observations. There may be more concern or efforts to brainstorm a solution occurring behind the scenes. Not everyone problem solves by spilling their guts to other people,or asking every Tom, Dick, and Harry they meet what they would do in their situation.

And heck, after having been around these forums for so long, I wouldn't be surprised if this mom has heard it is illegal or abusive to install a lock (or door knob guards) on her child's door. There has been some massive flaming in the past with regards to locking children in their rooms, even for their own safety. She may not have truly thought all the way through what could happen. She may be at a complete loss as to what to do.

Perhaps a letter (if you aren't good at verbal discussion) or a phone call/face to face is in order. Write down talking points beforehand outlining: 1) The possible consequences of the child continuing to get out- CPS, possible injury in and out of the home, including drowning, getting hit by a car, choking, poisoning, falling, getting cut and bleeding out etc.
2) any and all possible solutions you can think of- a mom's helper or friend who will wake up that would be willing to help over night, medical testing/ health issues contributing to the child's frequent waking and the parents' inability to wake, alarms, other sleeping arrangements, other modifications to the room or house (I knew a woman that had a child with ADHD who installed a screen door on her child's room- better air circulation and hearing)
3) other resources she can contact for help- for the parents as well as the child.


----------



## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennydecki* 
@AverysMomma I feel the SAME way!!! I'm proud and horrified all at once. You want to be all, "No! Don't do that!" but you kind of WANT them to do that because it encourages learning and exploration and....yeah...I'm screwed...LOL (am I allowed to say that on the board? I'm sorry if that's considered cussing)

I thought of something else. This might be a wee bit extreme, but you could call the police. As a formerly falsely-accused victim of the child services system I cringe to say it out loud...but...better that than a dead kid.

I remember the first time my 1.5yo got out of the house - when the people at the end of the walk she'd gone out to play with brought her back to the front door I swear I died a little inside...and put a lock on the inside of the door.

(Yes, my house has latch locks EVERYWHERE - it's fun to watch guests try and get out of the house or into rooms that are locked - they forget...)


Yes....I guess I am also "screwed"....I hate to get in the way of mischeif...but it's hard, when it is mischief that could lead to someone getting hurt, were you not right there, you know? I generally feel better about mischeif making that all siblings take part in...as opposed to a lone kid, up to "no good"...I just remember that with me and my younger siblings...generally when we were all together, we made better plans, a couple of us were nervous nellies, so that usually kept things a bit safer....it's when we were on our own that we got in hot water, thank goodness we were rarely ever without the whole group of us.

As for calling the cops....eeehhuuuuuuuu. I don't know about that...I TRULY do not believe in calling the cops/cps for that sort of things. I just don't think it's anybody's business...there are people who believe that I'm putting my child in ACTUAL physical danger by not having her vaxed, you know?? There are a bunch of things I do that other people might see as "bad parenting"...but they are my choices, you know? Just because they are more informed, doesn't mean that other people like them any better or think they are less awful.

Any time I see a kid without a seat belt, I cringe..I mean, THAT'S dangerous! Especially when I see kisd in the front seat of an SUV or something who are clearly too young to be there...that's really, really dangerous, you know? How do you like people who smoke cigerettes with their kids in the car, and just a TINY crack in the window...GUUUGHHH!! But, do I call the cops and report them? I bet, people who I've seen do that...do it regularly...if not every day...that's horrible, but it's not my business. So...I'm just sensitive to things like that. I think if a person doens't have the guts to say something to the parents faces...they should be ashamed to call CPS...it just puts such a bad taste in my mouth.


----------



## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
I won't be popular for saying this, but if I knew this family and knew about all this happening, I couldn't not call cps and be ok with myself. This little girls parents are neglecting her - and something needs to be done about it before something happens to her.

This is shocking to me. THis is why I don't have but a very few "friends", this is why we hate people. This is why we don't spend time with anyone outside our tiny little circle of family and friends...this is why we're moving to the woods in a month and won't be sending our children to public school...this is why we are suspicious of people and don't trust peoples motives.

Because you can think that someone is your friend...and meanwhile, they can be looking at something that is happening in your home, with YOUR OWN child and saying to themselves "Oh my, how dangerous and neglectful" and be secretly planning to call CPS on you and bringing a whole world of crap into your life. People these days, seem to have an *unquenchable* thirst, for fidinging themselves waste deep in somebody else business. It's none of the OPs business...I appreciate her concern, I think everyong is shocked at the way these parents are living with a two year old....but as a PP pointed out...NONE of us have ANY idea what has really been done to try and stop her from getting out and getting into things in the night....even if her mothers attitude seems flippant...maybe, just maybe, she's embarassed or maybe, hows this: Maybe she doens't want to talk about it with the OP, because she thinks that she has a right, as this girls parent, NOT to have to talk about it, just because the OP wants to and has expressed concern. Maybe the OPs concern over the situation caused stress for the mother of this child and she just wanted to change the subject?? huh? Did you consider that??

Everywhere you look, there are people doing bone headed things...sometimes downright DANGEROUS things, with their children....you don't call CPS on the neighbors down the street, whose kid is always riding in the front seat of the car with no seatbelt. You don't call on the lady at work...who only ever feeds her kids fast food, that she picks up on her way to work....come on, people....come on. Parent your own kid....parent. your. own. kid. and let other people do the same. No one is beating this child...no one is starving this kid or molesting her....she is a wily two year old who is getting out of her room at night and getting into things and WE don't think that these parents are doing enough to stop her...okay....but who the hell are WE?

THere is NOT enough information here, to warrant a call to CPS....no one here, including the OP, know exactly what's going on here...It digusts me, to hear people saying this all the time "I'd report them"....ugh. And people wonder why we live in a nanny state in this country these days...

What about mamas here on MDC, who let their children roam free outside??? What about them? Do you think we should all call CPS on them??


----------



## Cativari (Mar 26, 2007)

The first thought that I had after reading the OP is that the kid is sleep walking. Is that a possibility? That it's a medical issue? Maybe the parents have/are seeking help but feel it's a private matter and they're doing as they've been advised? Therefore the lack of outward concern to strangers/people they don't know well. Especially since there seems to be alot of judgenment in our culture.

I also agree with the PP who said there have been threads here condoning the practice of locking kids in their rooms even for their safety.


----------



## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

I think the suggestion to call CPS is totally out of line and more than a little scary. You simply don't have enough information to say that this child is the victim of criminal neglect. It frightens me that so many mamas want to toss other families into the machine that is state intervention simply because they disapprove of their parenting choices.

I can say definitively that if someone called CPS because my toddler were an escape artist and I still hadn't figured out a good way to keep her contained at night, that person would no longer be my friend. In fact I would consider them completely toxic and dangerous and we would have no further contact whatsoever.

Yikes.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

AverysMomma - This child got hold of a RAZOR BLADE and could have KILLED herself on accident, and you think that everything is fine? I sure don't.

FTR - I never said I would call cps without first speaking to the parents about my concerns. I'm guessing the OP has already done that.

I'm very sorry that you don't feel like you can have friends b/c they might call cps on you, thats very sad. I don't live my life around what other people want me to do, but this sounds like a very dangerous situation - and the danger to this child sounds immediate considering the OP says she does this EVERY night. If I was this childs mother I would be doing some things differently and trying to get some help. And, cps doesn't always mean taking children away - it can mean some good serious help for parents who really need it - which these parents might - although thats when cps is at its best which it often isn't.


----------



## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

They make these netting tents you can attach to the crib with a zip up flap so that kids can't get out of the crib.


----------



## Mama2Jesse (Jan 5, 2009)

Exhausted parents+ two year old is hard enough. Night walking two year old? Oh my.
I would probably take parents aside and say something like "Wow. How scary that must be. Do you want some help toddlerproofing? These little guys are so fast, and it can be hard to keepo a step ahad of them...maybe three of us can outsmart her." Y'know? Because I would imagine they are horrified and tired and don't know which way to go.

Then off to buy whatever is deemed needed (alarms, door latches, whatnot) and have a "You Shall Not Pass" party in which you secure the house.

Exhaustion makes people pretty muddy headed. I am so thankful DH got to working normal hours just before our son was born, I couldn't handle it these days with the small one.


----------



## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PikkuMyy* 
They make these netting tents you can attach to the crib with a zip up flap so that kids can't get out of the crib.

Yep, we have one of those. DD is 2.5 and very similar to the little girl in the OP. She was getting out of bed when the rest of the house was sleeping and getting herself into dangerous situations.

We've tried time and again to get her to sleep with us but she won't. She gets up in the middle of the night and wanders. We can't put a lock on the inside of our door because our older DD often gets in bed with us in the middle of the night and would be in a state of panic if our door was ever locked.

DD has actually ripped the netting apart several times to get out of her bed. So far I've been able to sew it and rig it to keep her in the crib but DH and I have already decided that if she destorys the tent, we will remove her crib, get a bed and put a screen door on her room, that can be locked from the outside. I hate that but I don't know what else to do.


----------



## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
AverysMomma - This child got hold of a RAZOR BLADE and could have KILLED herself on accident, and you think that everything is fine? I sure don't.

FTR - I never said I would call cps without first speaking to the parents about my concerns. I'm guessing the OP has already done that.

I'm very sorry that you don't feel like you can have friends b/c they might call cps on you, thats very sad. I don't live my life around what other people want me to do, but this sounds like a very dangerous situation - and the danger to this child sounds immediate considering the OP says she does this EVERY night. If I was this childs mother I would be doing some things differently and trying to get some help. And, cps doesn't always mean taking children away - it can mean some good serious help for parents who really need it - which these parents might - although thats when cps is at its best which it often isn't.

If you were this childs mother...it would be your place to DO something...you are not, it is none of your business. You want to go on a crusade to save kids who are in immediate danger?? Out there in the world right now, are MILLIONS of children starving, involved in sex trafficking, involved in slave labor....there are plenty of organizations you can join, to better spend your time, trying to "save kids".....you have no idea what these parents are doing for this little girl...they could be at their wits end, trying everything they can think of...and still not have a solution...you have NO idea. I didn't say that CPS was going to take their child away from them. CPS doesn't have to take your kid from you, to plunge you and your family into a hellish life of jumping through hoops to satsifying the state, to make them see that everything is okay. But you never know...some hysterical woman calls up and starts blubbering on about "Razor blades and they just don't care at aLL" and they could decide that this is worthy of taking the baby away. You don't know that. Oh, look, another thing you can add to the list of things you don't know about, in this situation. Meanwhile....has your baby been fed? When's the last time your babys diaper has been changed?? Lets start asking YOU questions about YOUR parenting....because, you know, no one is above suspicion here, I'd like to know what's going on in YOUR home, please....you know, just in case there is an aspect of your parenting that **I** don't think is up to snuff....is your child fully vaccinated? Because you know...some people think it's medical neglect, not to vaccinate your precious child...don't you want her to be safe...?

This is not any of your business, or mine, nor is it the business of the OP. Yes, the child got ahold of a razor blade and cut herself....and you know what? This weekend, I went to check the mail, and my 13 mos old, walked out the back door, CLOSED it behind her and walked away. When I came back up the stairs from the mailbox....I didn't know she had escaped, because she closed the door, as I had left it, to keep her inside....I thought she was still with my DH, DH thought she was with me....then, panic to find her...did NOT ocurr to us, that she could have left the house...found her, finally, at the top of a flight of stairs at my nieghbors house....this child hasn't been walking for a month and a half...we had NO idea she could do stairs..when we put her on them a week or so ago, she had no clue....she could have fallen EASILY and killed heself or suffered a brain injury.....so, how TERRBILE are we?? Huh? Shouldn't someone call CPS??

And NO. I didn't mean to say, that it is because I fear CPS that I don't have a lot of friends....it is not CPS, but rather this THING which people seem to be infected with these days, this disgusting and irrepressable urge that people seem to have, to blur the boundries of social relationships and live comfortably in this nanny state, where government is holy and can do as they please.

The point is...yes, I agree, something has to be done....but you know what, there is not an intentional abuse taking place here and I HIGHLY doubt that these parents just don't care about their two year old...we have NO idea what's going on, what they've done to try and protect this little girl or how they feel about her escaping like this....we have NO idea....but you know, just to be safe....let's throw them into the system, let's invite THAT into their lives.

I'm telling you....uuuuuhh. Maddening.


----------



## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

You know, of all the things the OP listed, there are only 2 that strike me as dangerous. 1 is the razor blades, the other is the back door. These are simple things to toddler proof for -- razor blades and other sharp/dangerous things can easily be locked up. The outside door could be dead-bolted or have a high lock installed. Of course they should check to be sure kitchen chemicals and such are also locked up. Beyond that, really, what harm is eating a ton of pop tarts in the middle of the night? OK - relative to the "OMG this is SOOOO dangerous" response of some -- I recognize that poptarts are not nutritious food and generally not approved of here at MDC.

Neither my DH nor I are drug addicts, or drunks, or on any sort of meds. We can both easily sleep through the kids getting up in the night. When they were toddlers we gated the top of the stairs, toddler proofed the bathrooms, and left it at that. They weren't going to kill themselves, we slept. I don't think we were neglectful and certainly didn't deserve a CPS call! We don't know what the family in the OP have tried or what their true level of concern is, and we don't know that the razor blades are still accessible or that the outside door doesn't now have a better lock.

Locking a child in their room is just flat out dangerous. In the event of a fire, child cannot get out. Parents cannot be certain they wouldn't collapse due to smoke before being able to rescue child or that the fire won't block their access to child. There are much better solutions to night-wandering than locking them in their room.


----------



## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
No. They try to work opposite shifts, so I think they are just really tired. And, they just sleep through it. I don't know how. I hear everything. So, I don't understand it.

But, still.. if you know this is GOING to happen, why not find a way to put a stop to it?

I don't think those alarms would wake them up either. If she was rummaging in the master bathroom without waking anybody, I doubt they'd hear an alarm on her door.

Menards has some screamers for the doors that are a 4 pack for $8 (they stick on and can be easily removed). I'm not sure the DEAD could sleep through those.


----------



## jennydecki (Jun 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 
This is shocking to me. THis is why I don't have but a very few "friends", this is why we hate people. This is why we don't spend time with anyone outside our tiny little circle of family and friends...this is why we're moving to the woods in a month and won't be sending our children to public school...this is why we are suspicious of people and don't trust peoples motives.

Because you can think that someone is your friend...and meanwhile, they can be looking at something that is happening in your home, with YOUR OWN child and saying to themselves "Oh my, how dangerous and neglectful" and be secretly planning to call CPS on you and bringing a whole world of crap into your life. People these days, seem to have an *unquenchable* thirst, for fidinging themselves waste deep in somebody else business. It's none of the OPs business...I appreciate her concern, I think everyong is shocked at the way these parents are living with a two year old....but as a PP pointed out...NONE of us have ANY idea what has really been done to try and stop her from getting out and getting into things in the night....even if her mothers attitude seems flippant...maybe, just maybe, she's embarassed or maybe, hows this: Maybe she doens't want to talk about it with the OP, because she thinks that she has a right, as this girls parent, NOT to have to talk about it, just because the OP wants to and has expressed concern. Maybe the OPs concern over the situation caused stress for the mother of this child and she just wanted to change the subject?? huh? Did you consider that??

Everywhere you look, there are people doing bone headed things...sometimes downright DANGEROUS things, with their children....you don't call CPS on the neighbors down the street, whose kid is always riding in the front seat of the car with no seatbelt. You don't call on the lady at work...who only ever feeds her kids fast food, that she picks up on her way to work....come on, people....come on. Parent your own kid....parent. your. own. kid. and let other people do the same. No one is beating this child...no one is starving this kid or molesting her....she is a wily two year old who is getting out of her room at night and getting into things and WE don't think that these parents are doing enough to stop her...okay....but who the hell are WE?

THere is NOT enough information here, to warrant a call to CPS....no one here, including the OP, know exactly what's going on here...It digusts me, to hear people saying this all the time "I'd report them"....ugh. And people wonder why we live in a nanny state in this country these days...

What about mamas here on MDC, who let their children roam free outside??? What about them? Do you think we should all call CPS on them??

I know, I hated suggesting the police, but if I saw a toddler outside at night and didn't know where the child belonged, what else could I do? I know that's taking a specific situation and making it more OT and I don't mean to do that, but depending on the situation it might not be a bad call. Maybe the parents need more support than they have right now and if the OP cannot help provide that and the parents don't know where to look for it...family services might be able to help. (I have a much more complex view on this and I'm trying to boil it down so the post isn't too long but I'm rereading it and thinking, "That is what I mean ... but not quite like that ..." grrr!)

I would only use it as a case of last resort, but just because the ignorant want to call non-vaxers to the carpet with family services (and other intelligent mammas making informed - but not socially popular - decisions on other things as well) doesn't mean they don't need to be there for certain situations. Family services isn't just the refuge of the nosy snitch...

Maybe if they have Sundays off they can visit a church and find some connections for babysitters or ways they can get more relaxing time in during the week so they can be more alert during the night if something happens with the little one. If they are working opposite shifts and are exhausted all the time ... it's really a tough situation ...

Crap - if you don't have many friends that probably means you're not accepting new applications. Which kinda stinks cause I kinda dig you. *grin*


----------



## Dabble (Jun 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *funkymamajoy* 
When my oldest started doing this, we put a child proof door knob cover on the inside of his door. It seemed like a mean thing to do but we had to keep him safe.

I was terrified that he would leave the house.

An exact ditto! It worked until about 3.5, when he figured out how to pull off the childproof lock, but by then he was old enough to teach him that he had to come into our room first to wake us up before he went out into the rest of the house. Worked like a charm.


----------



## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
You know, of all the things the OP listed, there are only 2 that strike me as dangerous. 1 is the razor blades, the other is the back door. These are simple things to toddler proof for -- razor blades and other sharp/dangerous things can easily be locked up. The outside door could be dead-bolted or have a high lock installed. Of course they should check to be sure kitchen chemicals and such are also locked up. Beyond that, really, what harm is eating a ton of pop tarts in the middle of the night? OK - relative to the "OMG this is SOOOO dangerous" response of some -- I recognize that poptarts are not nutritious food and generally not approved of here at MDC.

My understanding was that the poster who mentioned the Pop Tarts was concerned about the baby being asleep on top of the counter, not about eating the Pop Tarts.

You're right that those things are easy to childproof. I think the concern is arising because, from the way the OP has presented the information, the parents seem to be aware of the potentially dangerous things their DD is doing every night, but don't seem to be interested in taking steps to prevent it from happening again. The OP said she offered to help childproof, and it doesn't sound like anything has been done.

I tried to ask the OP more questions to get a better sense of the parents' attitude, but she hasn't responded yet. It would be helpful to know more about how they talk about the issue.


----------



## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
My understanding was that the poster who mentioned the Pop Tarts was concerned about the baby being asleep on top of the counter, not about eating the Pop Tarts.

I guess I'm weird, but I really don't see the issue with a 2 YO climbing up on a counter. Mine did it all the time. I wouldn't be thrilled to have someone sleep there, but truly, IMHO, not worth panicing about.


----------



## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chimpmandee* 
An exact ditto! It worked until about 3.5, when he figured out how to pull off the childproof lock, but by then he was old enough to teach him that he had to come into our room first to wake us up before he went out into the rest of the house. Worked like a charm.

and ditto back to you! DS grew out of the wandering stage and when DD wakes up, she just bothers DS instead of wandering. Now if only we get DS to wander to the bathroom at night.


----------



## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennydecki* 
I know, I hated suggesting the police, but if I saw a toddler outside at night and didn't know where the child belonged, what else could I do? I know that's taking a specific situation and making it more OT and I don't mean to do that, but depending on the situation it might not be a bad call. Maybe the parents need more support than they have right now and if the OP cannot help provide that and the parents don't know where to look for it...family services might be able to help. (I have a much more complex view on this and I'm trying to boil it down so the post isn't too long but I'm rereading it and thinking, "That is what I mean ... but not quite like that ..." grrr!)

I would only use it as a case of last resort, but just because the ignorant want to call non-vaxers to the carpet with family services (and other intelligent mammas making informed - but not socially popular - decisions on other things as well) doesn't mean they don't need to be there for certain situations. Family services isn't just the refuge of the nosy snitch...

Maybe if they have Sundays off they can visit a church and find some connections for babysitters or ways they can get more relaxing time in during the week so they can be more alert during the night if something happens with the little one. If they are working opposite shifts and are exhausted all the time ... it's really a tough situation ...

Crap - if you don't have many friends that probably means you're not accepting new applications. Which kinda stinks cause I kinda dig you. *grin*


I understand what you mean....but CPS doesn't have a "off", "on" or "in the middle" switch...it's not either "Let's go snatch some kid, YEAH!" or "Hey guys, let's be reasonable on this one, m'kaay, these people seem like they just need a little guidance"....they kind of operate on a "let's go see what we can find" basis. And we all know, sometimes what they "find" doesn't make ANY sense, but there it is, in any case...totally ruining somebody's life. "What do you mean, you COSLEEP, EVERY kid needs to ahve his own bed, why is this bed covered in laundry???" and the beat goes on..... Maybe they go and just help the poor people...maybe they go and they find stains on the rug and give that crap we saw here once, about "stains could be emitting toxic fumes" or whatever else...maybe these parents are occasional MJ users and there is some evidence of that, say, stashed on top of the fridge...or whatever. Maybe they let her run loose, with no diaper on in the day time, get messy and don't clean her face....I mean, whatever, you know? There are any number of ways this could go wrong...and more of the time than any of us would care to talk about, it DOES go wrong, you know?

I just feel like...even if the things that these people are trying to do aren't good enough by our standards...who ARE WE? You know? I think that people have a right to parent as they see fit (obviously barring actual physical abuse or molstation, etc). I see what's happening as unacceptable...but these people might think they are doing the best they can....I can't be the judge of that and CPS is proven time and time again to be a lousy judge of that. The point is.....in life, a human should have the right to parent their child...even if I look at that and see failure....it's their right to fail. We can't save every kid in the world, who gets out of his bed at night and goes looking for fun/trouble...you know?

And FTR, if I saw a kid outside in the night, I would run out to the child, try to discover the location of his home and if I could not and he was unable to communicate anything to me like a phone number, etc...I WOULD call the cops. But the cops would be there to help this kid get home...you know? This cop would get the kid home and ring a doorbell, to find a couple of absolutely TERRIFIED, obviously just-sleeping parents...who would be SHOCKED and he would lecture them and hopefully NOT call CPS to "follow up"...hopefully he would be a parent himself and would have some compassion. How many times do the cops need to wake you from sleep in the middle of the night, with your child, who you didn't even know was missing, before you figure out a way to keep him in the house at night? But anyway, that's common sense, calling, because a kid is out in the cold wet night and you don't know how to get him home again, you know? There's nothing else you can do there.

Also....FTR....we have friends...just very few friends. It seemed, when we made an effort to be like everyone else, have a cirlce of friends we saw, etc...people just let us down, over and over again. We've come to understand, that there is A LOT about the culture of our people, here in this country, that just doesn't jive with who we are at our most core level. So, we have friends...we really do, just a VERY small circle.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

if it were me i would probably lock everything remotely dangerous up as tight as possible.. and then it depends.. this is why i like co sleeping... when ds wakes up he lets himself out of bed and just walks around the apt.. but since he has to climb on top of me or dp to do this he usually wakes one of us up.









i would be concerned about steps.. but that is because DS has no idea how to go down them without making it a life threatening experience. he flat refuses to go down backwards and is legs aren't long enough to reach the next step down so every time he tries he just sort of takes it on faith that he has his foot in the right place when he falls to the next step. it makes me nuts.

i would be concerned she would get around, over, through a baby gate and that it might be safer not to have one in case she tries to climb over it and gets a way worse injury then she would falling down the stairs without it. the climbing on counters thing would scare the he!! out of me though. ds climbs on the chair then onto the table and then takes a leap of faith onto the counter if i don't catch him in time. i don't know how to stop this from happening .. i used to have the chairs on the table but now he knows how to take them off.

as for CPS... i admit the razor thing is really concerning .. and i agree that for the most part these things aren't our business ... but then at some point that becomes a cop out.. i don't think this is one of those situations but i do think we tend to turn our heads and over look things b/c we don't want the responsibility of doing something about it.

but then.. as the mother of a child who is a strange combination of houdini, a pick pocket, a mountain climber, a stuntman, and a rocket scientist ... who are also all incredibly clumsy.... i sometimes worry people are going to call CPS because ds gets so many bumps and bruises and scraps. currently he has ..i was going to say a black eye.. but technically it is a bruise and a little cut right above his eye..and the bruise spread down to his eye lid.. it actually looks like he is wearing purple eyeshadow. now most people would think that we were either abusing him or neglecting him in order for that to happen. do you know what happened? we were laying in bed... yeah in the flipping bed... and DSs crib is next to it... DS picked up a pillow and put it on the bed where he wants to lay (he moved the pillows all over the place for ever until he finally falls asleep its strange.







) and he goes to fling his head onto the pillow and over shoots it a little bit and hit his head on the crib. i mean the kid was sitting up and then laid down.. how could he have hit it that hard? i have no idea but the bruise is nasty. what would happen if someone called CPS on us? yk?


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cschick* 
Menards has some screamers for the doors that are a 4 pack for $8 (they stick on and can be easily removed). I'm not sure the DEAD could sleep through those.

If nothing else, it will scare her huh?


----------



## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Just wondering why we are all assuming the parents haven't tried anything to put a stop to this?

Yeah the OP offered some help, but the girls parents may have already tried something and know it doesn't work.

Not every parent feels comfortable locking their childs door from the outside. I know DH and I would never even entertain that possibility.


----------



## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
If nothing else, it will scare her huh?

*snicker*

We stuck them on the outside doors, because the 3-year-old is stubborn and has decided that he is OLD ENOUGH to go visit his friends across the street all by himself.

He hasn't touched a door since the first time he opened one and the screamer went off.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

They aren't really concerned about her safety.

They are annoyed at the destruction. She's drawn on the couch with a sharpie. She's ruined food in the fridge, she's left the back door open while the air conditioner ran.

They basically get up every morning and go look at what damage she's done. She's never asleep in her bed in the mornings, it's always wherever she got sleepy again. Sometimes a closet, usually the couch or the living room floor.

They are the type of family who dirt bikes, and the whole family likes to skateboard. They camp and the kids are allowed to wander around, or stand close to the fire. They like that the kids are adventurous. But, wish the little one was less obnoxious about it. I GET that... but, I wish they were more worried about her getting out of the house. (the other three girls are nutballs too, but not so dangerous)

Really, I understand that she's going to get hurt. She's just that type of kid. She's always doing something crazy and getting hurt. But, I am just almost sure that something REALLY bad is going to happen.

I even told them I had a really bad feeling about this. One day, they might leave the pool fence open, or she could go through the garage door and get to the pool. Or my biggest fear is she will go out front alone at 3:00 a.m. She isn't afraid of anybody or anything.

I'm glad the kids are like this. But, they really need to confine her at night.


----------



## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

The outside door could be dead-bolted or have a high lock installed.
Yup. We have a latch on our front door that only dh and I can reach. I lock it at night so I don't have to worry about one of my younger kids going out before I get up.


----------



## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

I have a lock on my fridge, pantry and a chain lock at the top of my front door. My patio door has a peg at the top of the frame which keeps it locked and where my 4 yr old cannot reach. I try to keep pens, sharp objects, and other destructive tools put away where my kids cannot get to them.

My middle son has Austism and if I don't lock up the food, he will eat and eat and eat until he throws up. I went shopping one day and two days later, all cheese and snack foods were gone. (we buy very little of snack foods, so don't flame) Locking things up keeps him from getting sick and me from having to spend my entire life chasing him away from the food.

If I were these parents, and I had tried EVERYTHING, to no avail, I would consider the locked door, as a last resort. Because trust me, if she gets out and is brought home by police, most likely CPS is going to be involved.


----------



## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

I might add that the OP said the child got ahold of her dad's razor. She did not say it was a straight razor. I don't think any kid is going to kill themselves on a Gillette shaver. Cut a hand, yes. Sever an artery...not likely.

I was a pretty vigilant parent when my kids were little. My oldest managed to open and drink an entire bottle of Dimetapp Elixir while I was asleep, and my youngest let himself out the back door while I was asleep. (I was one of those parents who would have sworn up and down that my kid would never have tried to go outside by himself or rifle through the medicine cabinet) They were both 3yo when each event happened.

I lost DS2 at Virginia Beach for about ten minutes when he was 5yo. It was terrifying for both of us. DS1, at age 6, decided to leave our cul-de-sac with his bike and venture onto the main road for a few minutes, where people drive 50+ mph and there are no sidewalks. A neighbor told me about it.

Kids do stuff. You can only hover so much. I'm glad my friends and neighbors weren't CPS-happy individuals.


----------



## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I fail to see how these anecdotes about kids who have gotten into stuff are relevant. The issue here isn't that this girl is getting into stuff -- of course that happens to all kids, even those with the best of parents. The issue is that she's doing it nightly and her parents aren't concerned and don't appear to be doing anything to even try to stop it.


----------



## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
can two year olds be sneaky?

They can certainly try! Sophia often waits til I have to use the toilet to get into things she's not supposed to. When she bolts out of the bathroom door, races down the hall, and I hear rummaging in the kitchen, I know she's into something. I finish as quickly as possible, she hears me walking down the hall ... I hear her say, 'hide, hide, hide!' as she tries to hide behind the cupboard door while standing on the counter trying to open up some emergen-c packets, or tries to hide inside the pantry behind the door with a bucket of oats in her arms, or under a blanket on the couch with a bar of butter she snagged from the fridge, or under the table with a bucket of crisco in hand.


----------



## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
If they cant/wont wake up when she's tearing the house apart...even when she's in their own room... shouldn't they take precautions to keep her safe? She does this every single night. It's not occasionally. It's every night.

The answer is yes they should take precautions to keep her safe as possible. Door alarms might be a really good idea if they can't stay awake.

I wonder if they have considered checking into what is making her wake up at night instead of just viewing it as an annoyance. I get the impression that she goes to sleep and then wakes up and does this and then falls asleep again? Maybe suggest they talk to a doctor or sleep specialist? Has she always woken at night or is it relatively new?

Our solution to dd not sleeping at night was for one of us (me) to try to always be awake with her. If she was awake alone she would totally trash the house every single time. It really sucks but locking her in a room was not something we could do. If we had more than one child I don't know how we would have managed to do this.


----------



## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 
What about mamas here on MDC, who let their children roam free outside??? What about them? Do you think we should all call CPS on them??

Most of us who do that have older children, and only after they have proven that they have a degree of responsiblity, and would take that privledge away (I hope) if our children destroyed property, ect.

Surely you see a slight difference between a 2 year old, and an older child. I didn't let my children roam free unsupervised outside when they were toddlers.


----------



## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

How do you know about all this stuff, OP?

Assuming you have talked to the parents about this over and over, you already know that they're not going to do anything. If I were you at this point I'd just ask them to stop sharing their "OMG you won't believe what DD did now!" stories with you. It's only upsetting you, you are powerless, and if they're not going to do anything even after the kid cut herself with a razor and they don't bother to lock the pool gate...what can you really do?

Other than this issue, is the kid happy? If so, it sounds like she's in a family that at least gets the daredevil/exploration need, probably she'll survive the next 3 years or so. Though since I'm a busybody, I might try to teach the kid to swim or practice getting out of the water on the edge of a pool!


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
How do you know about all this stuff, OP?

Other than this issue, is the kid happy?

We are related... kinda...well, mom is my ex's niece, and they live on the next block over, so we do things together a lot. So, We're not ACTUALLY related.. but, we still claim to be.

Yes! She's very happy. I don't doubt that, or her parents in general, but I do think they need to lock her in. I have no problems telling them that.. and they don't mind. But, they don't have that same sense of "If she'll do this now, what will she do next month?" feeling.

The behavior is kinda new. She turned two recently, and she's been doing this since about 17 months. (When she learned to escape her crib) Plus they moved into a new home at the same time. It all started on the same night.


----------



## darcytrue (Jan 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
can two year olds be sneaky?

this was my first thought. My DD got in to the kitchen knives when she was 2.5 while I was in the shower and big brother (8 at the time) was supposed to be watching her, and she didn't cut herself but used several knives to cut up her own banana in to very small pieces. I instantly put the knives up on top of the fridge and out of her sight and it never happened again because she couldn't reach them. Those knives are still on top of the fridge to this day and my DD is 7 years old. She doesn't like knives and will always ask before using one when we are eating out somewhere.









I can't believe at least one of the parents doesn't wake up when they hear the child in other areas of the house. When I have a young child in the house, like under 4, I wake up to every little noise and instantly check on them. I thought that was a universal parent thing that you instantly wake up to check on a really young child when you hear just the slightest noise or sense someting going on.









I agree with door alarms or they may need to put the child in their bedroom to sleep with them so they can hear her.....or can they can put some type of locks on the doors to the other rooms in the house like the bathroom, kitchen and other rooms so she can't get in there?

The biggest concern I have is that the parents don't seem to care about her safety while they get a good night's sleep.







They didn't hear her come in their own room? That's sad to me. She cut herself up with her dad's razor?? That one single incident would have set the wheels in motion in our house to make some MAJOR changes. I would probably be sleeping in my child's room so that I am sure to wake up when she does if this was happening in my house. I couldn't go to bed at night and even go to sleep without knowing I've done something to make her safer. What parent wouldn't feel the same way?


----------



## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

HAven't read the whole thread, but what about having 2yo sleep in a toddler bed in mom/dad's room and babyproofing, complete with a small toy basket of quiet toys, and putting a chain latch at the top of the bedroom door so baby can't leave. Baby can wake up and 'get into things' quietly without risk of danger. Parents are nearby and accessible. I've done this before when my son was this age, omg he could maneuver out of anything and I think it's the only thing that let me sleep and kept him alive LOL

Personally, I think any suggestion or recommendation of trapping a child (locking, 'crib tents', barricading', whatever) AWAY from their parents is dangerous, reckless, and poor judgment. Fire risks aside, the child isn't able to reach the parents and ask for help, and it creates the situation where the child HAS to fend for themselves. Not ok from an an attachment perspective, in my opinion.

HTH?


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

if they are going to lock her in they could put a video monitor in her room or something


----------



## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

I fail to see how these anecdotes about kids who have gotten into stuff are relevant. The issue here isn't that this girl is getting into stuff -- of course that happens to all kids, even those with the best of parents. The issue is that she's doing it nightly and her parents aren't concerned and don't appear to be doing anything to even try to stop it.
Yeah, this.

I would consider calling CPS too if a) I was SURE the parents were not doing anything about this and B) I had clearly expressed my very sincere concern to the parents repeatedly with no results.

It's worth mentioning that the most common form of child abuse is child neglect. I could not live with myself if this child fell in the pool or was hit by a car, and I had known about this situation, and I had done nothing.

As to locking her in her room--I have never really gotten why this freaks people out so much, safety-wise. I think it's the IDEA of locking someone in that freaks people, and that's sort of like getting freaked out by child harnesses because they look like dog leashes. Any child who sleeps in a crib without being able to climb out is essentially being locked in a room. As far as fire safety is concerned, it's the exact same thing. (And I know many here are anti-crib, but they don't usually react with "What if there's a fire?" stuff.)

If this were my child I would 100% be locking or gating her in.


----------



## kristi96 (Mar 31, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
I won't be popular for saying this, but if I knew this family and knew about all this happening, I couldn't not call cps and be ok with myself. This little girls parents are neglecting her - and something needs to be done about it before something happens to her.

Why do people feel the need to involve the Goverment. All CPS does is destroy your life. I'm sure there are other alternatives to helping a friend out besides callling CPS on them. I'm a very hard sleeper....does that make me a bad parent...um NO!


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kristi96* 
Why do people feel the need to involve the Goverment. All CPS does is destroy your life.

this isn't true. CPS is not all bad. if you want some examples i have quite a few. vicious generalizations are not helpful.


----------



## Thandiwe (May 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
I won't be popular for saying this, but if I knew this family and knew about all this happening, I couldn't not call cps and be ok with myself. This little girls parents are neglecting her - and something needs to be done about it before something happens to her.









: And to make things a little more complicated, we know someone who lost two children to CPS (permanently - several other issues as well, not just this), because of an initial call of their children being locked in their bedroom. Parents did it while they slept (they chose to sleep until 2/3 in the afternoon, ignoring their kids) so kids would be "safe." Neighbors called the cops because the kids were being locked up, and that was the reason for the initial removal. Other things came out over time, but that prompted the call/removal. Not to be the bearer of bad news...

If it were me, I would try one of two things. First, there are those nets you can put over a crib to help contain a child. Or, I would second the moving the child's bed into the parent's room and installing a hook/eye lock up higher than the child can reach and guaranteeing there are safe locks on all windows in the room.


----------



## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
As to locking her in her room--I have never really gotten why this freaks people out so much, safety-wise. I think it's the IDEA of locking someone in that freaks people, and that's sort of like getting freaked out by child harnesses because they look like dog leashes. Any child who sleeps in a crib without being able to climb out is essentially being locked in a room. As far as fire safety is concerned, it's the exact same thing. (And I know many here are anti-crib, but they don't usually react with "What if there's a fire?" stuff.)

It's really not the same, though. In one situation, the child is on open-topped crib. In the other, the child is behind a locked door, potentially unaccessible by firefighters who have entered the building. In one scenario, the parents can hear the child crying for help. In the other, they have to rely on baby monitors, if anything. In one scenario, the child can come to the parents in the night if she needs help. In the other, she can only beat futilely on the closed door and hope that someone hears her screams.









This is also another excellent reason to co-sleep with young children, particularly those too little to walk. The safety issues are drastically lessened when everyone is in the same room. "What if there's a fire?" is a big reason we chose to bedshare and will continue to co-sleep as long as it works for our family.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

i know several fire fighters and not a single one of them would be the least bit deterred by a locked door. it would barely slow them down.


----------



## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peainthepod* 
This is also another excellent reason to co-sleep with young children, particularly those too little to walk. The safety issues are drastically lessened when everyone is in the same room. "What if there's a fire?" is a big reason we chose to bedshare and will continue to co-sleep as long as it works for our family.

Co-sleeping is not an "excellent idea" when the child refuses to sleep with you. DD#1 still sleeps with us, DD#2 will not. We have tried over and over and over. It doesn't work for everyone.


----------



## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
i know several fire fighters and not a single one of them would be the least bit deterred by a locked door. it would barely slow them down.

Maybe not, but that's not a chance I'd be willing to take. Nor would I want to risk being unable to open a locked door in the smoke and confusion of a fire.


----------



## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatoablessing* 
Co-sleeping is not an "excellent idea" when the child refuses to sleep with you. DD#1 still sleeps with us, DD#2 will not. We have tried over and over and over. It doesn't work for everyone.

Peace, mama. I was not attacking your choice not to co-sleep.


----------



## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peainthepod* 
Peace, mama. I was not attacking your choice not to co-sleep.

Thanks.









I wish I had more control over it because our lives would be so much less complicated if she'd just sleep in our bed. As I said in a previous post, she's an incredibly daring, fearless, stubborn little girl. We are running out of options.


----------



## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatoablessing* 
Thanks.









I wish I had more control over it because our lives would be so much less complicated if she'd just sleep in our bed. As I said in a previous post, she's an incredibly daring, fearless, stubborn little girl. We are running out of options.









That sounds really rough. I hope you find a solution that keeps her safe AND lets you all get some much-needed sleep!


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

there was a thread awhile back that said closed doors were safer in a fire... it was actually another thread about locking kids in their rooms... the things we talk about on her


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatoablessing* 
Thanks.









I wish I had more control over it because our lives would be so much less complicated if she'd just sleep in our bed. As I said in a previous post, she's an incredibly daring, fearless, stubborn little girl. We are running out of options.









only on mothering would you read a post where a parent wishes their kid would just freaking sleep in their bed!!


----------



## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

In one scenario, the parents can hear the child crying for help. In the other, they have to rely on baby monitors, if anything. In one scenario, the child can come to the parents in the night if she needs help. In the other, she can only beat futilely on the closed door and hope that someone hears her screams.
Huh? What is your "one scenario" and "other scenario"? I don't get it. A child in a crib in a room and a child locked in a room both can be heard if they scream, and/or on a monitor. My DS, who is a crib sleeper and has never thought of climbing out, can't get out any more than a child locked in a room can get out.

For that matter, some bed-sleeping toddlers can't open their doors even if they aren't locked.

I am not sure what kind of firefighter couldn't disable a simple doorknob lock. In any case, I am thinking a scenario where there is a fire, yet I am somehow unable to get my kids out (if I am conscious, I am GETTING my kids out) and the key thing that caused them not to be saved was a little doorknob lock is not very likely. I live in a 1-story house that is less than 1200 sf. What is the scenario here...I sleep through the beginnings of this massive fire, all my smoke alarms fail, we pass out from smoke inhalation, but somehow the neighbors call to save us, yet the house is about to collapse around us in the next 2 seconds so the firefighter has no time or skills or mental ability to unlock a door that requires no key? Dude, how did the firefighter get in the HOUSE through my deadbolts? I don't know, I just don't think it's that big a risk


----------



## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
there was a thread awhile back that said closed doors were safer in a fire... it was actually another thread about locking kids in their rooms... the things we talk about on her









That's why we keep our bedroom door closed!









The other thing is locking a child in a room just seems really cruel and inhumane to me. I get that it's for her own protection, but I'd put alarms on every window and door in the house and lock everything dangerous away in a huge safe before I'd shut my kid in a room. It's like...I don't know, I guess being confined against my will is my worst nightmare, so I can't imagine doing that to a little one. Safety issues notwithstanding, I just couldn't do it.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

i wouldn't do it and then leave them there all night.. i would probably lock the door to keep her safe and not let her out.. but i would also have a monitor so that i would here her if she wakes up and i would go get her. i cant imagine locking her there all night to fend for herself... thats just mean. and lord knows it may not be any safer. shes two.. she could get hurt in lots of seemingly harmless ways.


----------



## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Huh? What is your "one scenario" and "other scenario"? I don't get it. A child in a crib in a room and a child locked in a room both can be heard if they scream, and/or on a monitor. My DS, who is a crib sleeper and has never thought of climbing out, can't get out any more than a child locked in a room can get out.

But you could leave your crib-sleeping child's door open and hear his cries, right? Whereas if you lock a kid in a room, obviously you have to have the door closed. That's what I meant when I said one scenario is not equivalent to the other. Apples and oranges.

Quote:

For that matter, some bed-sleeping toddlers can't open their doors even if they aren't locked.
Okay, but then those toddlers wouldn't need more than a simple gate, would they? Again, no need for a locked door. So...not the same.

Quote:

I am not sure what kind of firefighter couldn't disable a simple doorknob lock.
A precocious child could easily pick a doorknob lock. I did it when I was three. All you need is a wire hanger, or a pencil, or some kind of thin plastic rod or stick. People here were talking about slide latches, eyehooks, and other exterior locks. Yes, a firefighter can easily disengage those...but why risk it? Can you, with your eyes closed and smoke in your lungs and everything around you burning and on fire and your child screaming for help on the other side of the door? Not a risk I would take, personally. You have to do what you're comfortable with though.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

an angry child could break the door know


----------



## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Closed doors are safer.

Locked doors not so much.

Every fire safety talk I have been given talked about door locking causing problems, even for adults.


----------



## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
can two year olds be sneaky?









:


----------



## kristi96 (Mar 31, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
this isn't true. CPS is not all bad. if you want some examples i have quite a few. vicious generalizations are not helpful.


Good or bad examples I still wouldn't want the government involved in my life.


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

ds is like the least sneaky kid ever.... he is fast and quiet... but i think its b/c w/e he is doing is interesting enough that he doesn't need me to entertain him... but hes not sneaky.. every time he gets something he is not supposed to have he brings it to me.. and the screams like he is being tortured when i take it away.







and when i fall asleep (yeah it happens.. hes exhausting!!!) he sits on my head and pulls my hair until i wake up... maybe they should teach their kid to do that... no one could sleep through that kind of shock


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kristi96* 
Good or bad examples I still wouldn't want the government involved in my life.

the 8yr old being pimped out by her mother for drug money might welcome the intrusion. not everything is about what is convenient or easy for us. sometimes things are for other people.


----------



## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

Gah, that is very scary. Can they just let her sleep with them at night so they know if she gets up?


----------



## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *becoming* 
Gah, that is very scary. Can they just let her sleep with them at night so they know if she gets up?









it cracks me up b/c to so many of us this is the obvious answer but tons of people would think we were totally going about it the wrong way.


----------



## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

Closed pending moderator review.


----------

