# Clergy spouses--check in here!



## User101

So, there seem to be a few of us on the boards now. Maybe the time is right to try and start a tribe again.

My name is Annette. I'm married to a Lutheran pastor. Things are especially funky at our house because I didn't convert and am still Catholic. The children (we have 4) were baptized in the Lutheran church. DH has been in the ministry five years, and this is our first call.


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## snuffles

Hello. I am an Orthodox Christian priest's wife. We have been in our first parish for a year now.

Interestingly enough, I found this thread on a no-poop thread in the life with a babe forum.


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## User101

Yay! Apparently, a lot of us clergy spouses have dealt with poop issues.


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## SheBear

I might have used a stronger word than "poop" in that context, Annettemarie...
















hello everyone! SheBear here! We are Baptist, our denomination is Primitive Baptist. Dh (HeBear, LOL!) began preaching when he was 18, and he's been the pastor of our church (www.palmchapel.org if anyone's interested!) for over 8 years now...he was called as pastor when the former pastor (age 85 at that time!) felt he could no longer attend to the congregation as he wanted. So the congregation went from an 85 year old who'd been preaching over 50 years to a 21 year old who had only been ordained for 6 months!

It was quite a transition, to say the least!







Looking forward to learning and sharing with you ladies!


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## User101

So, I have something nice to share. This month is the five year anniversary of DH's ordaination and installation (I know, it makes him sound like an appliance, LOL!). The church is having a big reception and all between services this Sunday. The bishop is coming and everything. He thinks the bishop is coming because he's retiring. Sort of like a farewell tour, I guess. DH is kind of clueless and gullible.







I can't wait to see the look on his face.


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## AnyMama

I was looking for a place to post because I had a note at the top of my screen that I hadn't done that in a while.

I guess I'm a lurker at heart.

But I'm also a pastor's wife. My husband is looking for a new position right now and is interviewing tomorrow with an ELCA mission church. Maybe that's a smart move with all the stuff going on in our church right now







:

Hi!


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## User101

Hi there! My DH ELCA as well!


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## SheBear

Hi! Glad you found us! (Glad Annettemarie found ME, LOL!)

I have been given the privilege of making the communion bread for tomorrow! I've always wanted to, but that duty has always fallen to one of the deacon's wives.....she was doing it long before we moved to this church, and I certainly didn't want to butt in and take over. Personally, I think it's a task that should be alternated (or shared) by all the sisters in the church (not to exclude the brothers, but I think it would be a special thing for the women to share, to teach the younger ones, etc. Anyway.)

She decided not to do it this time (not sure why, but she's somewhat elderly, so she may just not feel like it), and I happened to be in the right place at the right time to volunteer! I'm really excited about it. It really feels like an honor! Of course, I'm also a bit anxious that it turn out well, etc...

So, has anyone else ever done this? Any tips? Any favorite recipes? (although it's hard to think of too many variations to flour, salt, a bit of oil, and water, LOL! Especially since really only 2 of those ingredients are essential!







)

Anyway, I just wanted to share, and y'all seemed the logical ones to share with!

Blessings to everyone who is meeting for worship tomorrow!


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## AnyMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Hi there! My DH ELCA as well!

we're actually "whiskypalian" as they say. But things are a tad bit messy right now, so my husband was interested in taking advantage of that full communion thing...but he's not so sure the church he interviewed with is the thing for him. It sounded like a really cool place though. we're in the midst of trying to figure out where the heck we're supposed to be. Sigh!

SheBear, how did your bread turn out? It's very rare to find homemade bread in our church, though I have baked it before. I think the kind I made was probably very different from yours. My recipe was a whole wheat one with honey, on the sweet side. I don't think I have it anymore though.


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## SheBear

Thanks for asking, AnyMama! Yours sounds yummy! Bummer you don't have the recipe anymore!







Mine turned out fine, but a bit different than what the other sister usually makes. Hers turns out very thin--paper thin--and very crisp. You can hear it breaking, and dh says that when he goes to break it, shards fly all over. Mine turned out thicker, and sort of chewy, like pita bread. Dh said it was more a matter of tearing it, rather than breaking it. Either way is fine, as far as I'm concerned....just slightly different methods. Anyway, no one complained--at least not to me, LOL!









I got the recipe that I used from a sister at the church where I grew up (in Arizona). By the time I decided that I wanted an actual recipe, rather than just winging it, it was too late to call anyone local, but we have a 2-hour time difference with AZ, so I called her instead!









Communion Bread

2 cups flour (bread of life)
1 tsp salt (salt of the earth)
2 Tbsp olive oil (anointed with oil)
1/2 cup filtered water (living water)

Preheat oven to 375

Sift together flour and salt. Add oil to water, whisk briskly to emulsify. Pour into a well in the flour. Mix together until dough forms, knead with hands until dough is smooth consistency. If necessary, add extra water, a half tsp at a time. Divide into four equal balls, roll each ball flat, about the thickness of pie crust (should be approximately 8 inch diameter).

Score each loaf with the tines of a fork to keep it from puffing while baking. You can score it in small squares in order to facilitate breaking, if desired. Place on lightly greased (with olive oil) sheet pan. Bake for approximately 7 minutes (seven is the number of completion). Loaves should be firm to the touch, opaque in the center, and just barely beginning to brown.

Dh tested the bread for me after it was finished, he said it tasted good! He said it would be a good recipe for serving with soup, etc. For that, I think I'd add a bit more salt (maybe brush the tops of the loaves with milk or egg wash (or just olive oil would be fine, too), then sprinkle salt or herbs, etc) to pep up the flavor a bit more. I think the key is to start with really good, really fresh flour. Mine was pretty good, but not the best. If I do the bread again, I'll make sure I have some freshly milled flour to start with.


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## Bjen614

SheBear, how many does that recipe serve???

Anyway, hello everyone! I'm Becky and my DH is a youth minister. We are Independent Christians. We are still at Dh's first job...going on 3 years. I'm really not enjoying my time at this church and look forward to moving on (hopefully soon). Anyone served at an awful church?







:

Something I'm wondering is do people expect you, as the pastor/minister's wife to do A LOT? At our church, it is hard to find good help/volunteers. Do they try to go for the "two for one" deal you? Being a youth minister's wife, I just feel like my calling isn't to work with children and people always tell me how wrong I am for that. I know that I do need to get in there and do stuff, but I don't feel like I need to take over everthing. I'm having a hard time balancing. I find myself not volunteering for things b/c they do not have childcare for every service (just Sunday mornings). I just feel like I need to take care of my daughter first and then when she's old enough to go to the kiddy classes, then jump in more. Do I know sound defensive??







I'm having the hardest time dealing and I'm needing some insight from some other ladies who have been doing this longer then me.


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## SheBear

Welcome, Becky! The recipe made four loaves, each about the size of a pita. For communion (half-inch squares or so) I'd guess that each loaf would easily serve 25, so one recipe = 100 communion servings. If you are serving it with a meal, in place of crackers or croutons, etc., I'd say it would serve prolly 6-8 people.

As for the rest of your post,







!! I can sympathize on some level, even though my circumstance is somewhat different. We are still at dh's first church--he's been pastor here for 8 years. It is not uncommon amongst our (Primitive Baptist) churches for one congregation to have the same pastor for 20 years or more--one church I know of had the same pastor for 50 years before he died! So in one way, 8 years doesn't seem like very long, but I know that dh has gotten discouraged at times and looks over here, or over there, and thinks maybe the grass might be greener....He is strongly attached to his family (which is not a bad thing, by any means!) and dreams about one day serving a church closer to them. Nothing wrong with that, and someday, maybe we'll be blessed to do so! Or we may end up on the other side of the planet...who knows?

The only thing I know for SURE is that, no matter what church you are serving, there will ALWAYS be problems, and personality conflicts, and sin, sin, sin. And if the grass across the fence really is greener, it's prolly because they use more manure, KWIM?









I think the hardest part of being a pastor's wife (for me!) is remembering that I married a MAN, not his job. Just because I am Mrs. Michael doesn't mean I am Mrs. Pastor. I married him, and my most earnest desire is to support his calling and his dreams, but that would (should) be the case whether he were a doctor or plumber or whathaveyou. Certainly, I *want* to serve my church and do my part as part of the church, but there really shouldn't be a higher responsibility placed on me than on any other member......

.......and then there's reality, LOL! In reality, there ARE more responsibilities, more expectations. In many cases, I think people don't even realize what they are doing--certainly they would deny it vehemently if you were to ask anyone outright "do you expect more of me, the pastor's wife than of any other sister in the church?" But the reality is much different.

And I'm like you....I believe my number one, God-given duty--after my relationship with my husband--is being a mother to my children. It comes first. God commands it. I CANNOT be a good member/volunteer/anything else in the church if I am not first taking care of my family.

This is where I'm really quite thankful for our church body, which has quite a number of older couples whose children are grown. They remember what it is like to have small children, and they don't expect me to volunteer or show up for everything. They know I have to leave before naptime, and so forth. Honestly, many times I feel guilty that I don't do more, don't take charge more, don't lead more. But my family comes first. Worship starts in the home, and my most blessed priviledge and most serious obligation is to serve my family first and teach them about the God we serve.

Someday I'll have more time to give to the church, and to the larger community. Someday I'll have time (and the wisdom, I hope!) to teach the younger women. To practice more hospitality, etc. But at this season in my life, I have to do the work *for* this season in my life, KWIM?

And just try my best to humbly, patiently explain why I cannot do everything else, as well. Really, I can't complain. Our church has been, as a whole, so good to us as a young family just starting out...most of the pressure I feel to live up to the Impossible Standard is probably self-inflicted or imagined. But the Standard is still there, and I do know how draining it can be, knowing you are being compared to a myth and being found constantly lacking.

Hugs again!


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## Bjen614

Wow! Thank you so much for that reassurance! It means so much to me. Seriously.

And you know, when I start feeling really down about all of this I can find myself getting the attitude of not wanting to do anything at all. But I have to keep telling myself (and should really put it up on my bathroom mirror!), NOT TO BE SERVED, BUT TO SERVE. so I've had to pull out of a few things that felt like I was quite good at: nursery and teaching on wed nights and found other places that I am. I really want to have a servants heart, but right now I am having the hardest time.

We feel like we are being called to live closer to our families as well. I get lonely when DH goes to church camp in the summers. He's practically gone for a good month and a half. I get lonely with not having my family around b/c no one here ever calls to check on me or invite me to dinner or whatever. In fact, I go home a lot during this time. We do have some friends our age here, and I'm sure they'd just tell me to call them up and invite myself over, but I'm just not that kind of person.







:

I'm sure I sound really mean and selfish, but I am just so unhappy here.







: It's really effecting me negatively, which then effects my family.









I feel like I need a mentor!







:


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## Bjen614

Oh and thanks for the communion bread recipe!


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## SheBear

I so hear you on the loneliness. My parents live 2000 miles away, and my inlaws are 250 miles away. I have 3 sisters and 2 adult brothers (my baby brother is the same age as my oldest son) and we are all fairly close, but none of us live close together. Actually, my eldest slster is about 250 miles or so, but in the 8 years we've lived here, she's never once come to visit us--we've been up to see her several times, and it sorta hurts my feelings. It makes me feel like that connection is much more important to me than it is to her. Especially since she doesn't even have children to have to plan for and travel with!

Anyway, that was a tangent, and obviously a sore spot with me (and I really didn't even realize it was sore, LOL!)

But I do understand the loneliness, and i haven't figured out a solution to it. Our church is very good--a close-knit, loving, caring group, but gosh, everyone is just so busy all the time, you know? I'm as bad as anyone else about not thinking to pick up the phone or make time for coffee or lunch with someone. And of course I make excuses....I can't go have coffee and just visit because of the kids, and I can't have people over just at the drop of the hat because my house isn't clean enough, and besides, we live so far from town that no one wants to come out, especially with gas prices so high.....blah blah blah.

I know that everyone else is the same. Just full of good intentions and honest love & concern, and then time gets away, and whoa, I haven't seen you since *last* Sunday! How was your week?

But it does get discouraging, doesn't it? Especialy if you are the one who always has to make every. single. overture. of fellowship. I've been there, too.....so&so seems to have a good time when we get together, our kids enjoy playing, but she never calls me back.....I have to do all the inviting and planning and arranging, and is she only agreeing because I'm the pastor's wife and she's being polite, or is she just shy? Golly, it's a lot like dating--except you don't get the reward of that "being in love" rush, LOL!









I think I need a mentor too!







And I KNOW I need some sleep--it's horrible of me to still be up at 1:30 am when we have church in the morning!







:

Blessings to everyone!


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## User101

Yay! The thread is still going!

Things have been crazy here. Last week, they had a reception for my husband to celebrate his fifth year of ministry/fifth year at Messiah. It was a surprise, although I knew about it. I was expecting some warm lemonade, cookies, a photo collage taped to posterboard, and an Augsburg Fortress gift card. Instead, there was a huge silver and china reception, a handsewn chasuble, a quilted photo wallhanging, and a check for over $1200. It was truly humbling.

That same weekend, the senior pastor was elected bishop by two votes. This means we are either moving up or moving on. That sounds snottier than it is, but if DH isn't bumped up to senior pastor, we'll have no choice but to leave. It's very scary, but I'm having faith that we're going to end up exactly where God wants us to be. I keep telling myself, "Churches don't call pastors; God calls pastors."

Quote:

I think the hardest part of being a pastor's wife (for me!) is remembering that I married a MAN, not his job. Just because I am Mrs. Michael doesn't mean I am Mrs. Pastor. I married him, and my most earnest desire is to support his calling and his dreams, but that would (should) be the case whether he were a doctor or plumber or whathaveyou. Certainly, I *want* to serve my church and do my part as part of the church, but there really shouldn't be a higher responsibility placed on me than on any other member.....
This really speaks to me. My hubby is good at saying "You're not a pastor's wife; you're my wife. You didn't marry the church!" I've found with four kids, people's expectations for my involvement are fairly low, but they're constantly after me to join the choir.







I do teach Sunday School, run a clothing exchange, sing when they need soloists, help out with VBS, and occassionally help with the youth group, but I do those things because I _want_ to and not because I _have_ to.

Right now, I'm just proud because 4 kids and myself are ready to go to the late service, and we don't have to leave for another 45 minutes. Whoo hoo!


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## shantimama

I don't have time to write much now...... guess where I am off to?







It is Sunday morning.

My dh is a minster in the United Church of Canada and I am Roman Catholic. Our children attend the United Church on Sunday and go to a Catholic School.


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shantimama* 
I don't have time to write much now...... guess where I am off to?







It is Sunday morning.

My dh is a minster in the United Church of Canada and I am Roman Catholic. Our children attend the United Church on Sunday and go to a Catholic School.

That is so cool! Not only are we mod sisters, but we're Catholic sisters too!


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## User101

Dang, we peaked too soon. They were all ready and looking presentable... til Michael threw the chalkboard eraser at Katie Grace's back and left a huge mark. Then I noticed he had also wiped his chalky hands all over his front. Sigh.


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## shantimama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Dang, we peaked too soon. They were all ready and looking presentable... til Michael threw the chalkboard eraser at Katie Grace's back and left a huge mark. Then I noticed he had also wiped his chalky hands all over his front. Sigh.









When I saw that I laughed because around our house, being ready for church too early means something will go very wrong and we will be late or miserable by the time we get there.









dh has been a minister for 12 years. During that time very few people have had high expectations of me just because I am his wife - and those that do are generally the kind of poeple who would be like that with anyone! I often find that they ask less of me than others because they assume I am already so busy.

My approach is that I am dh's wife first and foremost, I married him, not the church. The greatest service I can offer the churches he serves is to love their pastor well so he is grounded and happy and growing. My job is to be a loving partner, to support him where I can, to be a place of restoration and encouragement when he has been up all night with a family in the hospital after a tragedy, to keep him going during the weeks with 4 funerals, to help him keep his life balanced so it isn't just church, church and more church.

dh serves two churches, one in our small town and another rural church in a farm community nearby. The children and I attend the town church and I am responsible for the Sunday school. I generally go to mass on Saturday evenings - we have a good relationship with the parish priest here, which is great for us.

I am also trained in spiritual direction, which I mainly offer in my own Catholic parish but I do see a couple of people from dh's church.

Question - how do your children feel about church? Mine are mixed, depending on the day. This morning one of mine really didn't want to go, she said, "Mama, I love God with all my heart but I am just so tired of church!"


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## Bjen614

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Dang, we peaked too soon. They were all ready and looking presentable... til Michael threw the chalkboard eraser at Katie Grace's back and left a huge mark. Then I noticed he had also wiped his chalky hands all over his front. Sigh.

Oh no!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shantimama* 
:
My approach is that I am dh's wife first and foremost, I married him, not the church. The greatest service I can offer the churches he serves is to love their pastor well so he is grounded and happy and growing. My job is to be a loving partner, to support him where I can, to be a place of restoration and encouragement when he has been up all night with a family in the hospital after a tragedy, to keep him going during the weeks with 4 funerals, to help him keep his life balanced so it isn't just church, church and more church.


I need to be more like you! B/c of my depression/frustration I tend to be unsupportive. I don't mean to be! I just get tired of being left alone almost every evening of the week and everytime we go out or have dinner it's interrupted by a phone call about something stupid. Like one time the mother of a kid in our youth group needed DH to talk her son into getting a hair cut b/c she couldn't do it and he'd probably listen to DH.







: That's when I made a rule that at dinner/family time, we don't answer the phone. If it's an emergency, they'll leave a message. I need to learn when to pick my battles and when to just shut up and be supportive b/c our marriage is taking a serious beating from it. Today in church, God revealed to me how self centered I've been and how I need to dig in and focus more on Him. It was amazing! I went to Sunday school and realized it and the sermon focused more on it!







It was amazing.

I guess I should also add that DH feels as if I don't need to do a thing in the church but be his wife. Of course I need to do my fair share. I just keep hearing my mom's friend who told me, "You're a minister's wife and you need to do a lot more then the average member." Yeah, whatever.

I so glad I found this thread!


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## Bjen614

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shantimama* 

Question - how do your children feel about church? Mine are mixed, depending on the day. This morning one of mine really didn't want to go, she said, "Mama, I love God with all my heart but I am just so tired of church!"

I haven't come across this yet. DD asks every day if she can go to church.







: She's 3 and I know it will come one day. What I would do is focus on everything that she LOVES about church. Tell her, "If you don't go to church today, you'll miss out on xyz and you won't see Susie, Tommy and Lizzy. Do you really want to miss that?? Just think about how happy you will make God by going!"


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## shantimama

My daughter is 9 and she has a response to everything.







For now we just gently support her in her frustration and find ways to nurture and encourage her spiritual life at home. Her school is great and that helps. I have known too many PK's who grow up to hate the church and it makes me sad. I think she will be okay, she is just going through some growing pans.

We are fourtunate to have almost always been in churches that have a healthy sense of boundaries. dh gets very few phone calls at home except for emergencies. I get tired too of him being out most nights of the week - fortunately he works really hard at creating a healthy balance. The way we look at it is, 25 years from now, how much will it matter in someone's life if their minister wasn't available for every possible thing compared to how much will it matter to our children if Dad was never home because he was always taking care of other people's needs? Now that our kids are in school (we used to homeschool) hemakes a point of being home to greet the school bus if he wil be out for teh evening and he takes time off for special school events as much as possible. I love that about him.

He is amazing with pastoral care and visiting, writing notes, making phone calls, staying in touch. His parishoners know he really cares and he is always there in an emergency. Because of that it seems like they really want him to take care of himself and not burn out. They just recently decided to give him another week of holidays every year becasue someone realized that he 'works' on all of the statutory holidays that everyone else takes off. That kind of thing makes him work more effectively because there issuch mutual respect going on.


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## User101

Katie Grace love church, but she's our spiritual child.

Michael likes that there are usually snacks there.







Other than that, he's starting to show some resentment about being asked to go and participate. We try very hard to say "this is something you do because you're part of the family of God" rather than "this is something you have to do because your daddy is the pastor."

Can you please keep our family in your thoughts and prayers this week? The senior pastor is off in Chicago for "bishop training" so DH is flying solo. On top of that, he meets with the council Tuesday night, and they're going to question him and decide whether or not to recommend him for senior pastor to the congregation. It's only Sunday, and there's already been a death and a funeral to take care of.


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## Bjen614

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Michael likes that there are usually snacks there.

















:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Can you please keep our family in your thoughts and prayers this week? The senior pastor is off in Chicago for "bishop training" so DH is flying solo. On top of that, he meets with the council Tuesday night, and they're going to question him and decide whether or not to recommend him for senior pastor to the congregation. It's only Sunday, and there's already been a death and a funeral to take care of.

Sure thing! I'm sure it will all go okay.


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## rylee95

Oh I can't even tell you how excited I am to find this thread! I've rarely stopped by this board since I joined. I had joined with a very specific need--finding a midwife in my area--and haven't done much else. I'm on some other specifically Christian/AP boards, but a thread specific to Pastor's Spouses . . . woo hoo









My dh is a Presbyterian (USA) pastor. Currently in his third call, first as solo pastor, after two associate for youth and family positions. This September will be 9 years since his ordination, hard to believe. A year after dh completed seminary, I began seminary. I graduated at 37 weeks pregnant with our first child, then worked part time as a director of Christian Education for a year, beginning when our firstborn was 4 months. I've been SAH ever since. In August we'll have been at our current church for 2 years. Hoping and praying to stay here till we retire. We had ten years away from our extended families, from the time dh started seminary till we moved back 2 years ago. Currently up the street from my sister and feel so blessed by that. So, I hear you ladies on the loneliness front. We spent 18 months at a church far far away, then the rest of the ten years about 2 1/2 hours away. At our last church, though, I really found a new family in one of the women there, and I lived 9 minutes from a dear dear friend whom I had met while my dh was in seminary. She too was family for me. So actually, now that we've moved away from those two women, I've been more homesick since we moved back near our natural family than I ever was before. You just never know. Oh, I feel a big ramble coming on, chalk it up to the aforementioned glee at finding this thread.

3 years in a youth pastor position is a good stint. The average stay for a youth pastor these days, so we hear, is 18 months. Not that I'm telling you it's time to move on, but just to give you encouragement in what you've already accomplished. Youth ministry is tough tough work, very prone to burn-out, and it's tough on the whole family. My dh's first call was primarily youth-oriented, it lasted 18 months exactly and left my dh thinking he was going to leave church ministry all together. Don't worry, that thought lasted three whole weeks. I'm feeling for you, being a youth pastor's wife with small children. Summers are brutal. I've been so grateful to have dh as a solo pastor, it has made for far fewer weeks away in the summer. Well, almost no weeks, really.

Too much to respond to. So many issues, so little time. As far as the congregation's expectations, I've tried to start out a new church doing little to nothing, then ease my way in by doing the things I feel gifted and called to do. Really like any other member. Thankfully none of our congregations has had very high expectations of me, but I'm pretty confident in my take on my role as first wife, then mother, then church member that I'm not too concerned about expectations. I think you just have to draw your own boundaries. And actually, since I went to seminary, our church really did get a two-fer, but again, thankfully, they've not expected much from me. It could be because of the three wee ones I'm juggling by myself in the pew.

I've struggled with all sorts of resentment over the draws on dh's time, the unpredictability of our "schedule," my sense of his priorities, his constant accessibility for everyone else. I think I'm starting to get a handle on it, but things still come up.

OH this is toooooo long. I hope this conversation can continue. I just have to add my







over:

Quote:

Dang, we peaked too soon. They were all ready and looking presentable... til Michael threw the chalkboard eraser at Katie Grace's back and left a huge mark. Then I noticed he had also wiped his chalky hands all over his front. Sigh.
Our service is at 9:30; dh leaves at 8:15, but he's been really great about helping me get the kids ready before he leaves. Sometimes we're all ready and can go at the same time he does and hang out at the church for a while, other times, I'm still getting things together and we leave later. Those are the hardest days, cuz inevitably no matter how ready they are at 8:15, a whole lot can go wrong before 9:00 when we aim to walk out the door. Sometimes being ready early is not a good thing.


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## AnyMama

I knew my husband was called to ministry when we got married...heck he was already in ministry when we were dating, just not ordained ministry. However, I don't feel called to be the matriarch or the parish or anything, at least not now. I think ideally, we do see ourselves as a ministry team. But that also is because we feel like the pastor needs to model Christian marriage and parenting for the congregation, and that is one of the reasons why AP and NFL are so important to my husband. He tells every new parent about breastfeeding and co-sleeping. And he presents non-violence as a gospel value whenever possible.

But currently he's an assistant, and our parish is not so great. I try to stay as distant as possible. i am so afraid that people will try to draw me in to the gossip and the politics there that I try to stay as far away from it as I can. I do have one friend in the parish, though. I've mentored her through a difficult nursing relationship with her second child. And though it ended at 7 months, it helped us to form a bond. She knows I'd help her with anything (in fact I took her kids this week so she could go to a doctor's visit when she was running a fever). That is the way I feel called to assist. I am happy to be a person for mothers to turn to for help. But don't ask me to join the choir, or to serve on this committee or that. Not now.

We are exploring the possibility of foreign missions though, that would be a ministry we were called to as a couple, though.


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## User101

Hooray! Two more members!
*
rylee95*, we've been here five years now. I would say it's only in the past year or so that I've started doing some of the stereotypical pastor's wife stuff. And it's only the stuff I really _want_ to do!

*AnyMama*, that's neat that you knew about your DH's call when you were married. I thought I was marrying a band director,







! I think we both feel a call to show the AP/NFL side of things as well. I've gotten a lot of grandma's in the church to buy their new grandbabies slings!

Does anyone else homeschool? We are the only homeschoolers in the parish, and it gets hard to deal with sometimes, especially because we have a fairly large population of teachers and school administrators.


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## Bjen614

Annettemarie, we probably won't homeschool, but I totally feel your pain there. My parents usedto go to a church that had a private school. My mom has her masters in education and they kept asking (more like pestering!) her to come to work for the school. They do ACE curriculem, so she wouldn't have exactly been using her degree. I'm totally not knocking that curriculem or people who decide to do something else instead of using their degree...it was just that she didn't feel led to do and they couldn't seem to let it go.


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## SheBear

Welcome, rylee95! I appreciated your post! I was excited to find the PWs here, too! Never even occurred to me to look for such a tribe....I guess that's the thing I love most about MDC.....no matter how far you are off the beaten path, you still have a good chance of finding another mama who checks all the same boxes you do, LOL!

Annettemarie, we homeschool....just starting out with our eldest, who is 5.5. We have one other homeschooling family in our church, and TONS of teachers, administrators, retired teachers, etc. in our congregation.







In fact, my dh's secular job is teaching at the local public school!

Besides the church, dh and I both come from a long line of school teachers in our families....his grandmother, my mom and dad, my grandmothers, my sisters, and many others. And you know what's funny? We've never gotten one bit of opposition or negativity about homeschooling. I had ONE conversation, a few years ago, with my older sister in which she implied that, because I didn't finish my college degree, I wasn't really equipped to homeschool my kids. But that was during a period when our relationship was a bit rocky to begin with, and she took my declaration of homeschooling a bit personally. And I prolly wasn't entirely blameless.

Anyway, my point is, the overall reaction we get from all the teachers in our lives is that we are doing a wonderful thing for the kids. That although teaching is their passion, they realize that there is a lot of decay in the system. One teacher friend of my dh's recently said that this about teaching: "I see so much rottenness and untruth in the schools. Error being taught as fact, discipline being totally forsaken, very little true teaching going on at all. The only thing that keeps me going back to the frontline every day is knowing that I am a *good* teacher. And if ALL the good teachers out there were to quit, there would be no hope left for the kids."

I am thankful for the good teachers out there, and even thankful for the public school system, though it is inarguably in HUGE need of an overhaul. But I would not send my children in that direction if I could at all avoid it. And I am enormously thankful that I do not have to do so at this time.

I am so glad that people around us have been so supportive of our choice...it sounds as if the people in your parish are not so supportive? That's sort of puzzling to me.


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## snuffles

Bumping


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## User101

Oh, thank you! I kept wanting to bump this and forgot.

Guess what-- my hubby was elected senior pastor!!! 288 to 36.


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## theretohere

Can I join in, too? DH is still on vicarage, but will be ordained, God willing, in less then a year.
We're waiting to find out where the first call will be- further complicated because we are up for international missions.
We're LCMS, btw.


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## SheBear

I was coming here tonight to find this thread!! Seems like God sends the support I need just when I need it most!









So.....real quick here (without getting into all the gory graphic details...at least not tonight!







), please tell me that I'm not the only one dealing with the dreaded double standard for Pastor's Families?!?!?

So, what do you do, when you--or especially when your children--are expected to adhere to a higher standard than the rest of the church....a higher standard than is reasonable, given their age, maturity, etc.?

I'm pulling my hair out here, and I'm so ANGRY I could chew concrete.









Sigh....I have to digest things a bit before I explain, but someone please feel free to jump in and make me feel not all alone in this sort of aggravation!


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## User101

Sarah, that sounds frustrating. I don't think I'll be much help, since it seems to me like I have the opposite problem--people cut my kids way too much slack and make excuses for them behaving in ways that aren't acceptable for anyone. But I sure can listen if you need to vent!


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## SheBear

Thanks, annettemarie!







I do believe I shall!









Well, here's the situation. Our church puts family-integrated worship as a high priority. We don't have Sunday Schools, or staffed nurseries....we believe that children should be welcomed into the worship service as part of the family, part of the church, and not separated from their families.

So, this is a big thing for me, and I love it about our church (although to be totally honest there are times that I can definitely see an advantage to a staffed nursery so that I can actually HEAR a sermon for once!







). But seriously, I love that we worship as a family. And I love that it has always been that way, so the church members are--FTMP--very understanding and patient with small children....and with the parents of small children!









Many of our sister churches do have "cry rooms" where the parent(s) can take their children to tend to them if they need to leave the main sanctuary....our church does not have any such facility. This was simply a matter of budget issues when the church was built years ago, and for a long time, there weren't many families with small children. Since dh has been pastor, that has changed and there are now LOTS of families with children of all ages, and more growing families coming in! And our expansion plans for the building definitely include a cry room, but for now it's not very convenient.... Right now, the only place I can "escape" with my child is to the foyer (which is only separated from the sanctuary by thin, not-soundproof doors), the ladies' room (Ick! Not. Happening.), or the fellowship hall, which is right off the sanctuary and also offers no sound barrier. Which makes it all the more important that everyone be patient and understanding, right?

Soooooo......it was (needless to say!) a sucker-punch of a shock when 2 deacons pulled dh aside after services Wed. night to tell him that they were "deeply concerned" about our 21mo ds's behavior in church, and that it was a "potentially explosive situation" that has been "going on for such a long time" and that it could very well be offensive to visitors and turn them away, and that "several" members of the congregation had come to these deacons, expressing how frustrating and distracting it was.









Now, let me reiterate: Ds is 21 months old! The church service is, on average, 1.5 hours long. He has, for the last 2 months (max--prolly more like 5 or 6 weeks) gotten very agitated when dh gets up to preach. He is VERY attached to his daddy, much more so than the other two were at that age, and he gets frantic when he sees daddy up there and he can't go to him. And he can be quite loud. So yeah, it's somewhat distracting, and I am certainly trying to gently teach him the appropriate behavior for church, etc. We have family devotions at home and "practice" our church skills, sitting still for a few minutes at a time, talking/playing quietly, etc. And I have been agonizing about this for the last couple months, trying to do everything I can to (first) prevent a meltdown.....with appropriate toys, snacks, sippy cup (he hasn't nursed in several weeks, which I suspect is part of the whole issue, but one thing about child-led weaning--you can't FORCE them to accept that comfort!), etc.....and then, if a meltdown starts, to deal with it in the best way for him, that is also least distracting to the rest of the congregation. It's not a perfect situation by any means, but I'm doing the best I can, and his behavior is TOTALLY AGE-APPROPRIATE!!! That doesn't mean he gets a free pass or that I allow/encourage/condone it.....it simply means that he CANNOT be expected to know or do any better at his age. He doesn't have the maturity, the growth, the mental/physical/spiritual ability to conform is behavior to adult expectations!

And ya know, that being the case, it seems to me that the adults in the situation should refrain from putting unreasonable expectations on the children, not to mention putting such a heavy burden of stress on the parents!







Especially since the leaders of the church (including these deacons) like to stress the importance of "family-integrated worship" when they talk about the church, and when they rave about how many families are being drawn to the church....and it is BECAUSE they see this church as being family-friendly!

But they told dh "you know, in your position, you are always going to be under more scrutiny..." Yeah....I know.







But does that make it right?? Do my kids deserve no patience, no compassion, no understanding, simply because their father is the pastor? Do I deserve the burden of being blamed for disrupting the entire church, when I am already feeling the stress of mothering a child who is moving into a difficult (but totally normal!) stage of development? And especially when I am simultaneously preparing for a newborn? Is this attitude of rigidity and impatience going to begin to affect the other families in the church, who have/will have small children who will also eventually go through trying stages? Is "family-integrated worship" just something they give lip service to, something that sounds good in theory, but only so long as it doesn't encroach on their comfort zone? Because we have to "look good" to the visitors, you know...









So, at the end of their "reprimand" (well, actually, in the middle, because dh was so peeved that he walked out on them before he said something nasty!), dh said that 1) ds was going through a difficult stage right now, but that it was right on schedule with our other kids, and that we were helping him through it in the best way we knew how, and that 2) we would continue to do the best we could do for _our child_, and that 3) if that wasn't good enough, we would leave. He also mentioned that he was concerned about these "several" members who allegedly had approached this deacon, because according to Mtt 18, they should have come to dh or me to discuss it, not to a third party. And before walking out, he mentioned something about it would be more Christ-like for people who call themselves brothers and sisters in the church to reach out and offer to _help_ a mother who is struggling, rather than talking behind her back and then offering nothing but reprimand!

Sigh.....I love my husband!









But I'm just so peeved about it. First, I'm truly concerned that this might spread to one of the other families (there is a new family who has just started coming in the last couple months, and they have a one year old who will doubtless be joining my ds before too long, lol! On top of that, they have just this week taken in two 18 month-old twins for foster care....they are definitely going to have their hands full for awhile! And I will be so far beyond LIVID if anyone dares to offer them anything but help, compassion, understanding, patience, and did I mention HELP!!

But at the same time (while I truly don't want anything of this nature to happen to anyone else), I can't help but feel irked that we are not considered worthy of that same sort of understanding. Why do other families get unwavering support in their decisions, but our decisions are looked at as fair game for judgement? Other families' pregnancy announcements are met with unreserved gusto and joy, but ours was met with a _slight_ increase in dh's check, accompanied by this statement (direct quote): "I hope that the church will be able to give your family even more once the baby is born, but you know, it's going to be awfully tight." We don't even care about the money...we certainly didn't ask for a raise! But when did it become their right to judge our family size??









Oh, and as for those "several" members? Well, it turns out that it was the 2 deacons, their 2 wives, and one other member who all had dinner together one day and the topic happened to get around to us.







: Hardly a church in uproar, in my opinion!


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## SheBear

Gosh, sorry that was so long!







I really did need to vent about it, because as I'm sure most of you know, there are very few people IRL that I could take this to.









You know, one thing I can't help thinking....if this is the BIGGEST "problem" we are facing as a church--a noisy child--should we not count ourselves as exceedingly blessed??







KWIM? Shouldn't we just be so busy offering up prayers of thankfulness that we have no one sick, no one suffering, no one poverty-stricken, no one arguing, no marital problems, no misunderstandings, no wars.....oh, wait.







Gosh, then...maybe there are some things on which our energy as a church could be better spent!

I do have to say though, that I love our church. It is really just this one issue, and that is looking more and more like it was pretty much limited to (mostly) this one deacon who tends to be somewhat grouchy even on his better days. I guess there has to be a few people like that around, I just really hate that he decided to make it seem like a church-wide issue that was on the verge of creating a rift! Some people like to be in charge, I guess, and if they can't manage that, then they like to create drama.


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## User101

Dang, I think I love your husband a little, too, LOL!

Seriously, I think they were way out of line. All my littles have had daddy obsessions at that stage. When my oldest was that age, he actually escaped and ran up to the chancel and DH ended up preaching with a toddler on his hip. This was also the stage when he (the oldest) would start shouting "AMEN!" when he felt his daddy's prayers and sermons had gone on long enough. And I have never, ever had one person complain. Most people thought it was cute (even when I felt like curling up under a pew and dieing) and if they didn't, they kept their mouths shut.

I'm sorry I don't have more advice, although I think your husband handled it very well. If you're doing what you can to keep your little guy occupied, and if the church has made a conscious effort to keep children in for worship and teaching, then I don't really see what more you can do. And I would think it would be extremely welcoming to other parents of little ones to see the pastor's wife struggling with the same things they do, toddler behavior issue-wise. At least that's what I keep telling myself,







!


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## theretohere

I think it's incredibly rude.
Everyone I've talked to with small children actually likes that my kids are not perfect in church- it doesn't set the standard impossibly high. Do the complainers have children- and if so, how long has it been since they were toddlers?
It's also sad that they blamed the congregation when it sounds like they are the ones with the issue.


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## heythere heather

Ah! You miss a lot when you mostly lurk and read new posts!

I'm Heather, and I'm married to a pastor.







In this area that gets me called "first lady" more than "pastor's wife"--not in our church, but by others in the community at different churches.

Anyway, he's the senior pastor at http://efco.org/templates/System/default.asp?id=21061 (Evangelical Free Church of America) We've been here almost 4 years--he started as an intern for 6 months, then was an associate for a year and a half, and has been the senior pastor for 2 years in January.

I do think sometimes my kids are held to a higher standard--because they are the pastor's kids yes, and also because I'm bold about not spanking them. Many of the other families in the church do spank, and I'm not one to be quiet.









My DH says that while we don't expect our kids to be perfect, we are, Biblically, held to a higher standard. The same is true for our marriage. He says that having a family in turmoil would point to the fact that he needs to get things right with his family before he spends time ministering to others. Now, that's not to say that we expect unreasonable things from our kids. I don't expect them to be silent for the entire church service, or kids who only do what you say, and never disobey. But it does mean that I invest a lot of time, we both do, into parenting well, and finding good solutions for behavior challenges.

SheBear, have you "practiced" church? When my eldest was just over two, he had a hard time in church (and we also have family worship). We would go over several times a week (it helps that we live nextdoor!) and practice. I would get up and sing some songs, then DH would get up and "preach"--all while DS was sitting nicely in the pew. We started out short, and increased the time. We talked about what behavior we were expecting for him. We talked about how when he was really loud or he yelled, it was distracting to the others who were worshiping God. It was a very gentle way to work on solutions to a very age-appropriate response.

If DH wasn't a pastor, we would have taken turns taking him out when it got hard for him to sit. That wasn't an option, though, so we had to find a new solution. And it worked great. In fact, I think we might need to practice again for the sake of my 3 1/2 year old. hmmm.

I don't think you should force your DS to be perfect, but you are in the unique position of being able to influence other families toward positive parenting. If you can find a solution and help your DS through it, you will be able to report back what you did (in a gentle way) to encourage your DS to sit through the service.


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## SheBear

Thanks!







I knew y'all could make me feel less stressed about it!

Quote:

Most people thought it was cute...

Quote:

I would think it would be extremely welcoming to other parents of little ones to see the pastor's wife struggling with the same things they do, toddler behavior issue-wise.

Quote:

Everyone I've talked to with small children actually likes that my kids are not perfect in church- it doesn't set the standard impossibly high.
All of these statements echo the only comments I've ever personally gotten....to our faces, everyone says how good it is to see the pastor's family in a "real" light, even when that means occasional struggles. Lots of times, ds1 (5.5 years) will sit up front with dh, and sit on the front pew by himself through the sermon. He does really well FTMP, plays quietly with a couple legos or toy cars, and doesn't cause a bit of distraction. But there have been a few times when dh had to interrupt his sermon to remind ds to sit still or be quieter (because I was on the other side of the church, there was no way I could have caught his attention). But after each of those times, I've had so many people (mostly moms, I'll admit) tell me how nice it was, how encouraging it was to see him step between his role as pastor and his role as father that way. That's why is was even more unbelievable to hear that "several" people had complained, yk?

Quote:

Do the complainers have children- and if so, how long has it been since they were toddlers?
Umm, yeah, they have children. The youngest, however, is older than my dh!







They also have grandchildren, but they--of course--are perfect (and rarely at church, but I digress)!

Quote:

SheBear, have you "practiced" church?
Yes, as I mentioned in my looooooooooong post, we do this, both at home for our evening devotions and when we can manage it (maybe a couple times during the week) we also go to the church and practice in the real setting. And it is working....and it worked with the other kids, too. But it's not going to happen overnight! Church people, more than anyone (IMO), ought to understand that overcoming our human nature is a long, continuous process--why should it be any different for children?? And I know that this stage is temporary, we'll all get through it....but why can't THEY see that? Why make a difficult time worse for us by making us feel bad about it without offering any solution/advice/help?

The ironic thing? The thing that has helped me most in getting through this stage (with each of the kids) was remembering how this particular deacon's wife told me that one of her sons was HORRIBLE during church, and that it continued to be a battle with him for over a year! And she said that it finally got to the point where she realized that he would do anything to get taken out of the sanctuary (even though it meant he would be spanked







). She said once she realized that, there were a few months where she just had to duck her head in embarrassment and beg the rest of the congregation to bear with them, because she refused to take him out of the service after that.

Anyway, I've always remembered that, and gotten comfort from knowing that at least they understood intimately what was going on, and would cut me some slack due to having BTDT....or so I thought.

But we shall survive....and you know, if all that comes from this is that people realize and acknowledge that accomodations for families with small children need to be made a high priority (no, we can't afford to do the whole building project yet--and that may not happen for several years--but we could afford to start on it, to at least build on a comfortable spot for parents (Dh and i were talking about that last night and I told him that when it's done, I'm gonna insist on a plaque declaring it to be the "Andrew Lastname Memorial Cry Room"







).

Anyway, I feel much more at peace about it now....we have a plan. Dh is going to ask for a conference immediately after services tomorrow to discuss the issue (of an acommodation, not our son!) with the whole church. And I'm going to start sitting in the verrrrry back pew, and the first time ds makes a peep, I'll take him out, comfort him, etc. The second time, I'll gather up our stuff and we'll go home. Dh thinks (hopes) that it will only take a time or two of that for people to realize how ridiculous it is! Especially if the deacon has to drive dh home!







Okay, so maybe that's not nice (we'll probably just take 2 cars for awhile) but it would be funny!


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## SheBear

Quote:

When my oldest was that age, he actually escaped and ran up to the chancel and DH ended up preaching with a toddler on his hip.
We haven't had any total escapes yet, but several close calls with all the kids! And I usually let the youngest go stand by daddy at the end of the service, and he'll hold them for the closing prayer. Guess that will have to stop, too!









Quote:

This was also the stage when he (the oldest) would start shouting "AMEN!" when he felt his daddy's prayers and sermons had gone on long enough.
That is too cute! ds2 yells "Amen!" too, but when he says it, it sounds more like Swiper the Fox (on Dora the Explorer) when he says "Awww, man!"


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## SheBear

Church starts for us at 10:30 am. We made it until 10:37 am.


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SheBear* 
Church starts for us at 10:30 am. We made it until 10:37 am.


















Similar experience for Sunday School this morning (and I'm a teacher!)


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## Bjen614

Since your church can't actually build a Cry Room, would it be feasible to have a room wired to where you can hear the service? Or maybe put a closed circuit tv in the nursery so that you can watch/listen. Our last church had that it was nice.

COULD IT BE that maybe people always jump at the chance to gossip, put down, slander the pastor and his family? Maybe that is what this REALLY is all about. Not your parenting skills and your child's behavior. This is how it always is for us. Regular members are just too quick to judge us b/c they have this weird standard that they think we should be living up to...which is really stupid. So if one minut thing happens, it's blown out of proportion.

Your hubby is awesome!


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## SheBear

Well, the prob with the building is that there IS no such room. There's just the lobby, 2 bathrooms, the sanctuary, and the fellowship hall. Oh, and a small pastor's study behind the pulpit (would be waaaaay distracting for me to go in there during the service!







) and a broom closet.

So, until we actually build *something* there just are literally zero options. It's just an old building, built before such amenities were given much thought, yk?

Good thing is, this situation has lit a fire under dh to really be pressing the issue of an expansion. It would be quite possible to add a small section to the existing building and have it wired with closed-circuit TV, etc. It's just up til now, no one wanted to be bothered with an interim plan...everyone was just excited about the big, long-range building plan, KWIM? But it's obvious (to us anyway, and dh is trying to make it obvious to others!) that we can't just muddle through until the new church is built. We NEED something to address this issue right now. So, that's where it stands...

As far as the motivation for the complaint, I really do think it was mostly a double standard thing. Because there are at least 3 other toddlers in the same age-range as ds who also regularly make noise during service, and nothing was said to or about any of them.

And dh said that after I left church yesterday, the 2 little foster girls I mentioned made QUITE a racket, and yet the deacon who had such a problem with our son just went on and on about what a blessing they were, and how good it is to hear children's voices in church!







(which is absolutely the attitude I would want him to have....I just want it extended to my kid, too!)

Fine....I know the double standard is pretty much inevitable. I've always known that, and expected it to some degree. It just frustrated me more than I expected when it actually happened! Which is why venting to y'all was so helpful!


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## pampered_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SheBear* 
Well, here's the situation. Our church puts family-integrated worship as a high priority. We don't have Sunday Schools, or staffed nurseries....we believe that children should be welcomed into the worship service as part of the family, part of the church, and not separated from their families.

I envy that a lot. Dh was the "Pastor of Children and Family Ministries" at an EFCA church up until July of this year. We were there for a little over two years and ended up leaving because we were very much more into family ministry as in the whole family together and they were very much the "children can't learn outside their own age group" and "children should not be in the main church service, they belong in the children's programs." It went very much all the way to the top with the senior pastor often asking my dh why he couldn't point out to families that they *needed* to take their children to the appropriate location.

*sigh* I don't know why I didn't think of posting a thread like this back then...it certainly would have been nice to see that we weren't the only ones.

Anyways...back to your regularly scheduled discussion. We're still trying to figure out where to go from here (home church?) while adjusting to life on the "other side". Still struggling with finding a church where children are welcomed...it's kind of sad, really...


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## SheBear

That's a tough spot, pampered_mom! I am so thankful for our church, in spite of my current aggravation (which I know is just temporary and it is already starting to work out!)

We went to a different church one night to hear a special speaker. Ds1 was barely (maybe) a year old, and this was a totally strange church to us.....no way we would have put him in the nursery even if we'd been otherwise inclined, yk? We hadn't been there 10 minutes before we'd been approached by at least 5 different people, all of whom wanted to show us to the nursery. They were of course very pleasant and helpful--up until we made it clear we didn't intend to drop him off with strangers in a strange place! At that point, almost as if they'd been trained to do it, each of them had identical reactions--their lips tightened, brows furrowed and eyes narrowed. Then they all said, "Well....I guess that's okay if you want to try it. But if he gets fussy, you know you're going to have to leave with him."

Don't get me wrong, I respect their position and their right to conduct services as they see fit, but I do think it would do ALL churches well to learn to be more friendly and welcoming to families--especially new families! Some families may be perfectly happy with a nursery arrangement in a church where they are at home and know the other members, etc., but walking into a new church? Well, i can't think of a single mom of my acquaintance who would willingly turn her child over to a staff of strangers!

Anyway, I know what a blessing our church is, and I try hard not to take it for granted. I don't know anything about EFCA, or what your doctrinal beliefs are, but if you want to PM me with your location, I'd be happy to ask dh if he knows of any family-friendly churches in your area!









Blessings!


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## sunnylady303

Hi there! I don't exactly fit in here I guess. I'm a pastor's wife but I'm also an ordained minister too and DH and I just started sharing one full time position at a church. We belong to the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). Anyway. For the last four years I wasn't working and so a lot of what you were writing really resonated with me. Especially your last issue, SheBear. My girls (2 and 4 now) both went through stages where they would FREAK out when they saw DH at the pulpit. "DADDY! DADDY! HI DADDY!!" They wouldn't stop til he acknowledged them. The church was totally understanding and even liked it. I think those people have other issues. I swear, some people just look for things to pick on pastors about especially if they are bothered by something they won't tell you that thing. YKWIM? I'm always suspicious of the, "A lot of people have complained to me thing." I feel like people just say that sometimes to give an extra boost to their complaints. In our new church, my just turned 4 YO had a bad Sunday last Sunday. She was feeling insecure and didn't want to leave us. She ended up coming and sitting with us on the chancel til Children's Moment. And when I was asking for prayer concerns she jumped in and gave a long explanation about this cat she saw at the vet's office she needed to put on the prayer list.







: No one minded.
I wish I had found you all when we were at our last church and I wasn't working. I had a lot of the people expecting more of me because I was the pastor's wife. It was hard. Anyway. Thanks for listening!


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## Bjen614

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnylady303* 
We belong to the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).

We belong to the Christian Church too! Not DOC though. I agree with you on people just wanting to pick apart the pastor's family.


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## pampered_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnylady303* 
I'm always suspicious of the, "A lot of people have complained to me thing."

I was always suspicious of that as well...especially when it came from the senior pastor and he could never tell dh who it was that was part of the "a lot of people". Dh is such an approachable person, I could never understand why people couldn't just come right up to him and let him know their concerns. Especially since that's what Jesus said we were supposed to do first.

*SheBear* - We're not particularly sold on any particular denomination, the EFCA was just where we ended up when searching for a job. The particular church where we were at is somewhat indicative of the EFCA and in other ways not (the EFCA is one of those "independent" associations meaning there are certain things that all EFCA churches hold in common, but large variations when it comes down to particular churches). It was unfortunate because they presented themselves as one way when we were going through the whole hiring process, but within the first year it became clear that they weren't how they presented themselves to be - wishful thinking?

I guess right now we're struggling with reconciling "church" as it is usually practiced in the west with the desire to not spend so much money on buildings, programs, etc (or $30,000 on a sign) and rather spending that money on actually helping people in the community. We're thinking something ala "Organic Church" by Neil Cole.

I'm glad to hear that your situation is already starting to work out. I think that having children in the service is so important. I think that by modeling our faith in that way (and them seeing other people, other ages) can speak so much louder than any words we may have to say.


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pampered_mom* 
I was always suspicious of that as well...especially when it came from the senior pastor and he could never tell dh who it was that was part of the "a lot of people". Dh is such an approachable person, I could never understand why people couldn't just come right up to him and let him know their concerns. Especially since that's what Jesus said we were supposed to do first.









People relying on an "invisible army" rarely have a leg to stand on.

Things have been really tough since DH was made senior. He is going in around 8:30, coming home between 5 and 5:30, and then going back from 6:30 til 9 or 10.


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## shantimama

annettemarie -







That time table is pretty common around here, too. dh now tries, as often as possible, to come home before 4:00 if he is going to be out for the evening - that way he is home and ready to play with the kids and eat with us if he won't be home for bedtime. Fortunately, he is in a church that is very supportive of him as a father. For a couple of years he was in a church that didn't support his home life and it was very hard on us all - it was when we were homeschooling. This church is wise enough to know that caring for their pastor makes him _much_ better at his job!


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## User101

I'm hoping it will get easier once they hire an associate or an administrator, but for now, it's really hard. We were considering bringing Michael home anyway (he's our only one in public school) but one of the reasons we're really super seriously considering it is so we can have a little time together as a family.


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## pampered_mom

annettemarie - I know it can be tough both on your dh and the family!


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## Bjen614

It is hard when your hubby is expected to do it all. My hubby is the youth/children's/associate minister. So he is spread real thin. Gone every night of the week..


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## User101

So, tonight I'm going to see Hairspray! I'm so excited. I pumped milk for the baby, which I've never done before, and DH is taking him (Daniel) with him to the church for a baptismal counseling meeting.







A youth group kid is coming over to sit for the other three.I don't know if he'll take the milk or not, but I'll only be gone a couple hours, so it won't be the end of the world if he doesn't, although I hate to think of him being sad without me.









But I'm excited. DH has worked 12 days straight with no break, which means I've been "working" 12 days straight with no break. And this is supposed to be a great touring company, and I am a Broadway freak.

If you have a second, say a little prayer than Daniel does OK.


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## Maggirayne

Hey, this is cool! I was wondering if there was a a thread sorta like this earlier today. I am a PK(preacher's kid), so I understand lot of the things you all talk about.


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## SheBear

Wow! Long time no see! How's everyone doing?









We are doing well...the church is growing and seems to be thriving. Another church (in another part of the state) appears to be "courting" dh....if they call him as pastor (and if he accepts the call--he's not real sure how he feels about it yet) we'd be moving, which of course is very difficult to consider, but also exciting in other ways. It would be a much smaller church, one that desperately needs to grow and become a part of the town/community it is in....right now it is just a handful of people--wonderful, good-hearted people, but they don't know how to reach out into the community, how to see the needs and figure out ways to fill them, yk? The idea of serving such a church is both exciting and scary!

Our present church was a lot that way 10 years ago, when we first moved here, and God has blessed it--and blessed dh's ministry--in a wonderful way. I know He could bless this other church similarly, but it is still hard to think about leaving this church, where my kids have formed friendships and attachments. If we moved, we would literally be the only people under the age of 40! There are currently no children in the church--none! That's scary, but I know God could bless, and would bless if we are faithful!

So anyway, just thought I'd share since y'all know where I'm coming from, and because I obviously can't say anything to anyone in real life!


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## User101

It's great to hear from you, mama!

I don't have a lot of time to post right now, but will definitely be back!


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## User101

OK, I'm back!

Sarah, that sounds exciting but stressful. When will you have an idea what's happening?

Things here on going well. DH is the senior pastor now (I can't remember if I mentioned that before) and crazy busy. Even when there were two full-time pastors, they really needed another staff member--a visitation pastor, a Christian ed director, something--and now he's doing it all alone. And they haven't even started the call process yet!

Our big church news is that we're calling a congregational meeting to buy the house that's on the corner. If we get the house, we'll own the whole block. (My oldest says "Like Monopoly! And then we can tear down the church and build a hotel-- with a pool!







) DH is hoping to eventually build a gym.

I'm really ready for school to be done. I'm very tired. I don't know why I'm so tired all the time. I mean, I get that I'm busy and have 4 kids, but I just feel so exhausted, and like there's never a break. I actually have an appointment on Thursday for a physical.


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## franklinmarxmom

Can I join you?

I never saw this tribe before it got bumped today.

I'm not a pastor's wife--I'm the pastor! I am a solo pastor in the United Church of Christ (UCC). Ordained for 7 years, in my second call.

The issues are a little different managing being minister and mama, but similar!

Like the nursery worker complaining last week. We pipe sound from the service into the nursery for the workers. It freaked out DS--he could hear my voice, but not see me. He kept pointing at the speaker and crying. Once they turned it off, he was great. Totally reasonable 15 m/o behavior. But eliciting complaints nonetheless. What should I do, not preach anymore?

So, do I fit in here too?


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## User101

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
It's VBS week!!!!!

Just needed to vent.


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## SheBear

: I hear ya! We don't do VBS, but this weekend is our annual 3 day meeting, with people coming in from all over, tons of cooking to do and other preparations to make (I still don't know who all/how many are staying with us in our home!!), and cleaning, both at home and at the church!

Oh, and we are juuuuuust getting over pink eye!









pray for me, sisters!









Oh, and I never did update from my last post (#59):

It is still way up in the air, but it is starting to look very much like we might actually be moving!

Dh filled an appt as a visiting minister with the other church a couple weekends ago, and they have officially asked him to accept the call to pastor them.

He hasn't given them an answer yet, but if I know him at all, I'd say he is leaning in that direction. Wow....scary and exciting all at once!

He has a lot of praying and thinking to do, but since his secular job is with the school system, and since summer would be a perfect time to make a move, I'm mentally preparing myself for a whirl-wind summer!







:

Trying to just imagine how much there is to do if we do end up moving, oh my gosh, it's mind-boggling!

We have been here, him pastoring this church, for nearly 10 years now! When we came, he was barely 22, we didn't have kids, and all our wordly belongings fit in the back of one 24-foot Uhaul, with room to spare! Now we have 4 kids.......need I say more? LOL!

Please keep us in your prayers; this is such a big decision. How do you know that it's time to leave a place? How do you know that your work is really done? I know that he's feeling a pull to this other place, but I also know it will be hard--for all of us--to leave this church.

And, once you've made the decision to leave, how do you do it? How do you tell your beloved friends and sisters in the church, how do you tell your kids, how do you make the break in a way that is gentle and kind to every side? I know that if God is in the matter, He will bless both sides (all three sides, really--us and each church involved), but it is still a daunting prospect, because I care SO deeply about all of these people!

And yet, I'm almost aquiver with excitement to see what the future has in store for us!







:


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## Bjen614

Annette-Our VBS was last week too and it was so crazy! I could hardly keep up with being 37 wks along.

Sarah-My hubby (yth minister) is trying to make the same decision as your's is. It's hard to know when it's time and I'd love to hear what some of our veterans clergy spouses have to say about it.


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## Maggirayne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *franklinmarxmom* 
The issues are a little different managing being minister and mama, but similar!

Like the nursery worker complaining last week. We pipe sound from the service into the nursery for the workers. It freaked out DS--he could hear my voice, but not see me. He kept pointing at the speaker and crying. Once they turned it off, he was great. Totally reasonable 15 m/o behavior. But eliciting complaints nonetheless. What should I do, not preach anymore?

Welcome! I'm a PK, not a PW!









Um, if the said nursery worker wants to hear you badly that enough that she complains about your child







: then she shouldn't be working in the nursery, IMO. How can you hear anyway in a nursery w/multiple kids? I don't really pay attention in the cry room w/my one DD.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bjen614* 
Sarah-My hubby (yth minister) is trying to make the same decision as your's is. It's hard to know when it's time and I'd love to hear what some of our veterans clergy spouses have to say about it.

SheBear and BJen, I'm praying for you both, I know it's not easy deciding, even when it's a good situation all around.


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## SheBear

Maggirayne, thanks for the prayers! I truly appreciate it! You made me laugh....I've never heard anyone else call it a cry room before! That's what we call it, too! I always think of it as the place to take my kids if they are crying during service.....or if *I* get frustrated to the point of tears, LOL!

Family-integrated worship is wonderful and amazing, but it is HARD WORK!! Especially when you have a 6 yo, 4yo, 2yo and 6 mo, and no spouse to help, because he's doing the preaching!







:


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## User101

because I found more of us!


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## User101

So, how's everyone doing? Things are getting back into full swing here. DH had the never-ending council meeting last night and this Sunday is Rally Day.


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## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
So, how's everyone doing? Things are getting back into full swing here. DH had the never-ending council meeting last night and this Sunday is Rally Day.


This Sunday is our Rally Day, as well. And I have succumbed to the madness and agreed to be music director.








We as a synod are approaching a major restructuring. This means that on top of all of the normal meetings and insanity we have a whole other round.


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## User101

Too funny! I'm taking on the children's choirs. I would have done it as a voluteer (shh, don't tell) but I'm getting $2,000 for it. How awesome is that?

Now, you're ELCA, right? Whereabouts, if you're comfortable telling? We're in PA.


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## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Too funny! I'm taking on the children's choirs. I would have done it as a voluteer (shh, don't tell) but I'm getting $2,000 for it. How awesome is that?

Now, you're ELCA, right? Whereabouts, if you're comfortable telling? We're in PA.

No- we're the other Lutherans- LCMS. Are you ELCA? We're in northern MN- the far north.
That's awesome that they will be paying you for that- I think more church workers need some compensation!


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## User101

I'm Catholic.







But yeah, DH is ELCA. I worked for an LCMS preschool before I had kids. They have great early childhood programs.


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## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
I'm Catholic.







But yeah, DH is ELCA. I worked for an LCMS preschool before I had kids. They have great early childhood programs.

So, how'd the Catholic marry an ELCA pastor? I'm very interested!


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## User101

I didn't marry a pastor, I married a band director.









He didn't hear from God about being a pastor until we had been married four years.


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## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
I didn't marry a pastor, I married a band director.









He didn't hear from God about being a pastor until we had been married four years.

Oh, yeah, that'll do it!
It sounds like you are in a big church- how many calls have you been through?


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## User101

This is our first. We've been here for six years. He started out as associate, but then the senior pastor was elected bishop and DH was voted in as senior. It's been crazy. It's a great church, even though I am not crazy about being so far from family.

What call is this for you?


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## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
This is our first. We've been here for six years. He started out as associate, but then the senior pastor was elected bishop and DH was voted in as senior. It's been crazy. It's a great church, even though I am not crazy about being so far from family.

What call is this for you?

Call number one as well. We're coming off a one year vicarage.
Where is family? We've ended up far, as well- my dad is a pastor in TX.


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## Maggirayne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SheBear* 
Family-integrated worship is wonderful and amazing, but it is HARD WORK!! Especially when you have a 6 yo, 4yo, 2yo and 6 mo, and no spouse to help, because he's doing the preaching!







:

Yikes! I have to confess I am glad I'm not married to a pastor.








I am so glad my DH will take turns with me taking DD out.
Where in MN? I live just over in ND!







And there's a new baby boutique in Fargo. Pout Baby Boutique is what it's called.







Totally OT!


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## judybean

I've found this thread fascinating thus far









I'm not a pastor's wife yet... but my husband is currently going through the diaconate formation program to become a deacon with the Catholic church









I'm an ELCA convert as of 2001... though in high school there were many around me that thought I might just become a Lutheran pastor... turns out there were different plans









As a deacon within the Catholic church, dh wouldn't have all the responsibilities that the priest has, but he would do a lot more of the 'foot work' that goes into serving the parishoners. There's a lot more I could expand upon, but I'm not sure I'd have the time to do so since just the youngest (2.5) is taking her nap, but her older sisters (4.5, 6.5) are fighting a bit









He doesn't have the 'job' right now (and even when he is ordained a deacon, it's just a 'side' position and he'll still work in the 'real world) but it's already a bit of a time committment. He has classes one weekend per month. The classes begin Friday evening and last through mid-afternoon on Sunday.... and the classes are 2.5 hours away. It's a bit of a financial burden as well since gas is atrocious, we only have one vehicle (so he takes it, obviously, which leaves us with no vehicle all weekend), he (ha.. we!) pays for his books and then of course there's the time commitment of studying/reading in preparation for his next class and then the essays/finals that he has to complete after classes!

For now, I am enjoying having him in the pews with us (except weekends that he's gone for class), but I am a bit nervous about when he'll be there to assist in the mass and I'll be alone! (I will clarify and say that 'alone' isn't really true... MIL will be there.... and plenty of aunts/uncles of dh's.. and he's got cousins there too







).

So, I'm not really a clergy spouse yet.. but, if all goes according to plan, I will be in about 3.5 years!


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## smellyann82

i'm not a clergy wife, but my husband works for the catholic church. he works with 36 parishes in our state helping pastors form working pastoral councils of laypeople. he is also in graduate school for pastoral ministry through a diocesan program. i get frustrated because i constantly feel that the people he works with forget that he has a family. the priests don't have much concept of his at-home responsibilities, and of the 15 or so people in his department, he's the only one with kids younger than high school age. we also struggle financially--we're not destitute, but the lay positions do not pay well, and unless you're a deacon, there are no opportunities for housing assistance or anything similar, and many of the folks who he works with have spouses who work as well, so their social activity abilities are much more plentiful (we just can't afford for him to go out to dinner all the time). thankfully, i married him knowing that he'd do this kind of work, and we both knew what his pay scale would be, but it is challenging for me--that we need to support him as a family, and be alright with rarely having weekends with him and not seeing him many evenings, but that we struggle financially so much AND that dd and i are never welcome at events. there are times when i wish he was a pastor of another denomination or deacon, just so we could be involved in his life. it is challenging. it is also tough for him because his coworkers are scattered throughout the state, so he doesn't have many colleagues, much less young people. most are almost-retirement-aged women. nice ladies, some burnt out, but none at the point that we are.


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## pammysue

Woo Hoo! I am so glad I found this thread!!

DH is a part-time pastor at a non-denominational church (probably closest to Baptist). He has been at this church for six years. He has a master's in Biblical Studies but has a hard time finding churches because he was divorced. He also works part-time as a professor of history and humanities.

Now that we have a son, I really, really want to SAH but am unable b/c with two part-time jobs DH has no benefits and I have to work for insurance (and for additional income).

Our current church is very very small with a very elderly congregation. After repeated attempts to increase attendance, the church is simply not growing. The nice thing about our current congregation is they expect nothing from me. I wear jeans and flip flops to church and since the baby I usually walk in during the first song and I leave early from the fellowship time (which is every Sunday).

DH is currently looking for a full-time pastorship so I can be a SAHM. The problem is any other church is going to have high expectations of me (as it seems you all have experienced). I am an introvert who shies away from social situations and have no heart for hospitality. In fact, I HATE having people over to our house. I am somewhat surprised in the application process, how interested the churches are in ME.

I am excited to go to a church though where there are others my age and other mothers. I definitely want to be involved in the church but as a member and without any additional expectations. I am also nervous about possibly going to a church where my parenting decisions are not accepted. What would I do if DH was called to a Church that taught Babywise!?!?!? YIKES!

This thread is exactly what I need right now as I am trying to prepare my self for being a "real pastor's wife."


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## samuelsmom

Hi! Another ELCA pastor's wife, here. My DH is an associate in his first call... We've been here almost 4 years. I also went to seminary and am all-but-ordained... Just decided it was too much to have 2 pastors in the house at once, LOL! Seriously, I stayed home to be with the kids and I love it.

So nice to meet other clergy-wives here!


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## User101

It makes me happy to see this thread going again!

My DH has off on Friday, which makes homeschooling on Fridays really hard. Anyone else deal with this?


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## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
It makes me happy to see this thread going again!

My DH has off on Friday, which makes homeschooling on Fridays really hard. Anyone else deal with this?

We do. Especially since Friday is also the run into the big town to shop day. We take it off, as well as Saturday, then do homeschooling Sunday afternoon while DH is teaching catechesis and the youth.


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## User101

I'd never thought of Sundays. I think the kids would rebel.







We end up back at church around 4 for choir and then stay for dinner with the youth group.


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## samuelsmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
I'd never thought of Sundays. I think the kids would rebel.







We end up back at church around 4 for choir and then stay for dinner with the youth group.

My DH takes Thursdays off. He actually does the teaching on Thursday mornings to give me a break and do some Christian-ed with Sam. He's great that way...then we usually do some fun field trip in the afternoons and have fun together. I don't know if your dh would want to do something like that, but it's working well for us right now.


----------



## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *samuelsmom* 
My DH takes Thursdays off. He actually does the teaching on Thursday mornings to give me a break and do some Christian-ed with Sam. He's great that way...then we usually do some fun field trip in the afternoons and have fun together. I don't know if your dh would want to do something like that, but it's working well for us right now.

Your DH teaches Christian Ed to the kids? So far it's been left up to me, and I'm wondering how that works in everyone's families.


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## SheBear

An Open Letter to Sister Out-Of-Line:

Dear Sister,

Please do not ever again attempt to undermine my parenting decisions in front of my children. Particularly not when I'm. Standing. Right. There.

I promise you this: I will not just let it go.

Also? Do not grab my daughter by the arm and yank her in the other direction when she is going to sit down _where I told her to sit!_ In fact, don't grab her, period. Seeing my daughter flinch away from your hurtful fingers brings out my Inner Bear, and that's when things are going to turn ugly really fast...let's just not even go there.









If you don't think she should sit where I have told her to sit, then you have ONE acceptable option: tell ME. Preferably in a non-rude way, in a private setting, but I'll leave those details to you. After you have told me, I will consider your words, and then dh and I will decide what WE think is best. Not you. You had your chance to raise your own kids (and we won't even get into how well you did based on outcomes







) but you do not have permission to make parenting decisions for my children. Ever. Non-negotiable.

You don't have to like me, or agree with me, or even respect me. I could care less--I'm not seeking your approval (perhaps that's what bothers you?). But you DO have to respect my God-given authority to make parenting decisions for my child. Which means you need to back off. Now.

That is all.









Sincerely,

Your Friendly Pastor's Wife

PS....also not a good idea to tell me after the service that "I just don't understand why you won't let your lovely daughter sit with you in church, because she needs to be with her mother, and you need to commit to keeping her beside you in church, and I'm just so concerned about you missing out on that special closeness......."







Respectfully, Bullcrap. You don't have a clue about which you speak.

1) my daughter is always welcome to sit with me in church.
2) she is also welcome to sit with Sister B (older lady who is like a gma to my kids).
3) Sister B enjoys having Maggie sit beside her, and it is a great help to me since I am dealing with an infant and a potty-learning 2yo, and since I can't rely on help from my husband during services.
4) my husband and I have made GREAT sacrifices in lifestyle so that I can stay home and raise my kids 7 days a week. OTOH, when your sons were children, you chose to have a high-stress career and pretty much--as you have told me yourself, numerous times--let your MIL raise your kids. Now, I'm not going to judge your choice, because it's none of my business. But I think perhaps you should think twice before you insinuate that I don't spend enough time, or enough quality time, with my children.
5) whether my daughter sits with me or with Sister B, it is NOT your business. So stay out of it. Simple, n'est-ce pas?
6) my children get all of me, every day of the week. The special priviledge of sitting with Sister B during church does not equate with me neglecting the physical, emotional or spiritual needs of my daughter. When you get a chance, look up the word "preposterous."
7) do not EVER question my devotion to my children. Just. Don't.


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## User101

Whoa, Sarah. That is over-the-top intense. I think I would really, really lose it. You doing OK?


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## pammysue

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SheBear* 
Also? Do not grab my daughter by the arm and yank her in the other direction when she is going to sit down _where I told her to sit!_ In fact, don't grab her, period. Seeing my daughter flinch away from your hurtful fingers brings out my Inner Bear, and that's when things are going to turn ugly really fast...let's just not even go there.









Oh no! That is not ok!! I am so mad just reading your post. I am sorry you are having such a hard time with this person!


----------



## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pammysue* 
Woo Hoo! I am so glad I found this thread!!

DH is a part-time pastor at a non-denominational church (probably closest to Baptist). He has been at this church for six years. He has a master's in Biblical Studies but has a hard time finding churches because he was divorced. He also works part-time as a professor of history and humanities.

Now that we have a son, I really, really want to SAH but am unable b/c with two part-time jobs DH has no benefits and I have to work for insurance (and for additional income).

Our current church is very very small with a very elderly congregation. After repeated attempts to increase attendance, the church is simply not growing. The nice thing about our current congregation is they expect nothing from me. I wear jeans and flip flops to church and since the baby I usually walk in during the first song and I leave early from the fellowship time (which is every Sunday).

DH is currently looking for a full-time pastorship so I can be a SAHM. The problem is any other church is going to have high expectations of me (as it seems you all have experienced). I am an introvert who shies away from social situations and have no heart for hospitality. In fact, I HATE having people over to our house. I am somewhat surprised in the application process, how interested the churches are in ME.

I am excited to go to a church though where there are others my age and other mothers. I definitely want to be involved in the church but as a member and without any additional expectations. I am also nervous about possibly going to a church where my parenting decisions are not accepted. What would I do if DH was called to a Church that taught Babywise!?!?!? YIKES!

This thread is exactly what I need right now as I am trying to prepare my self for being a "real pastor's wife."

It IS hard. And people do expect a lot. It's also hard to know where the line is between your personal boundaries and not hindering your husband.


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## User101

I'm an introvert who doesn't do hospitality gracefully either. It is hard. Kind of makes you wonder if when God is calling the pastors, he forgets about the pastors' wives.


----------



## SheBear

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Whoa, Sarah. That is over-the-top intense. I think I would really, really lose it. You doing OK?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *pammysue* 
Oh no! That is not ok!! I am so mad just reading your post. I am sorry you are having such a hard time with this person!

Thanks, ladies!







Sorry to just spew that out all over everyone--hope you were wearing raincoats!







I was actually going to come on here tonight and delete it, since it was really off-topic and I'd sorta hijacked the thread with it.









But since you are all so sweet, it's just more of the same stuff that started happening a year ago (I posted about it waaaay upthread, like around post #36) where certain people who just loooooove being a "family integrated worship" church in theory, are discovering that the reality of it is just too inconvenient for them--how dare we to ask them to make accomodations for (gasp!) children??

So anyway, that issue is rearing it's ugly head again, and the worst part is, it's starting to affect more families than just ours. Last time, the complaint was limited to just our kid, but now some other parents with young children have been made to feel unwelcome. Dh feels like he was too soft on the issue before---he felt uncomfortable addressing it too directly because it felt a bit....self-serving, I guess. Like he was using the pulpit as a platform to promote his own agenda, his own family's comfort at the expense of others, if that makes sense. But now that it is obvious that it is a problem that is growing and spreading, he is feeling quite fired up about it! In fact, that incident happened at the begining of service Wed. night, and he totally abandoned his prepared sermon for one that was rather pointed!

Anyway, if any good has come of it, it has been that it is becoming quite clear to us that dh's work here is coming to a close, and we are being led somewhere else. And before, when I thought about saying goodbye to everyone here, it was difficult to imagine, and I felt like I was ripping part of my heart out. Now.....well, there are many people that I will miss terribly! But overall, I just feel such a sense of peace.....and dh does, too! Wish i could pack up a few people and move them with us, but....LOL!

It's just becoming clear that dh's time here is done. I am praying that whoever comes after him will continue to lead the church in the direction that he has been leading it, because I would hate to see his careful work gone to waste. I'd hate to see the young families leave because they aren't made to feel welcome after we leave....I don't *think* it will get to that point, but then again, I never in a million years would have thought that such a scene as happened Wed. night would have happened, either!!









People never cease to amaze me....Shame that most of this is stemming from the deacon--and now his wife--because obviously they are in a position of leadership/influence in the congregation.









Anyway, if you could offer a few prayers regarding our potential move (which we are hoping will happen between now and Jan, probably during the semester break (dh's secular job is with the public school system). We could sure use them!







(and now, back to your regularly scheduled thread...







)


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## Maggirayne

Wow, Sarah, what a er, um, a nasty lady. Some people make me want to leave church and hide in the woods.

I hope things go well for you and your DH leaving. I feel bad the yound families left tho'. People who abuse their authority in church really tick me off.

I will be praying for your family and your move.


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## ebethmom

I'm so glad to have found this thread! My dh is a United Methodist pastor. Right now he's serving two small churches. Both churches are full of loving, welcoming people who enjoy each other and appreciate our family. That is such a far cry from what we endured in our previous churches! I truly believe that God sent us to these churches to heal.

In the 10 (almost 11 years) of our marriage, we've had four different appointments. The first and the current have been good. The two in the middle were mostly miserable! I honestly didn't think we would survive the last church. It was just a hateful place. They claim that the KKK has left that community, but the seed of hate that they planted is still flourishing.

Both of the churches where we struggled had rigid ideas of what a pastor's wife was supposed to do for them. They wanted a free associate pastor, social chairperson and music minister. Um, sorry.

One person actually met with my husband in his office to tell him that "the group" of church ladies thought that I was far too concerned with my career and not doing enough for the church. In another setting, the Staff Parrish commitee told my dh that they were upset that he hadn't asked them if we could homeschool our children.

We're very glad to be where we are now! I still long for a shorter commute to my work. I have hopes that we'll get moved closer to my work and family. But for now, I'm just glad to be with friendly folks.


----------



## pammysue

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebethmom* 
In another setting, the Staff Parrish commitee told my dh that they were upset that he hadn't asked them if we could homeschool our children.

I'm confused; they wanted him to ask their permission?


----------



## samuelsmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pammysue* 
I'm confused; they wanted him to ask their permission?









That doesn't surprise me...Luckily no one has said anything so far about us homeschooling (at least not to our faces, lol!)...


----------



## mommaduck

Hubby isn't a minister yet. He's been involved with inner city ministry and is heading to seminary next summer


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommaduck* 
Hubby isn't a minister yet. He's been involved with inner city ministry and is heading to seminary next summer









Bless your heart, you need all kinds of special seminarian prayers then.

Mamas, I am turning off my pooter so I pay attention to my kids. Have a beautiful day!


----------



## ebethmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pammysue* 
I'm confused; they wanted him to ask their permission?









Yes, they thought that we should have asked their permission to homeschool our kids. That would have been difficult, since we made that decision years before we even met them! They were upset over the possibility that our children might take away from dh's service to them. My dh let them know that our children are _always_ a higher priority for him.

Ironically, they were fine with us driving our son to a Montessori preschool 30 minutes away. That took up a lot more of dh's time than homeschooling!


----------



## mommaduck

Oh boy!


----------



## SheBear

Boy, that sounds rough! What happened? You okay?


----------



## samuelsmom

Uh, oh... hope you're OK.


----------



## User101

*poof*

I will probably only leave this up for a day because I try not to share church details. But I really need some sympathy from other church mamas.


----------



## SheBear

I'm so sorry. Why is it that responding the way you did--had it been anyone else (not the pastor's wife) would have simply been a misunderstanding that would have required a simple "yes, they have permission to be there, and if it is too loud, we'll see what, if any, changes can be made before the next meeting" but when it comes from you (or me, or any other PW) then it is suddenly an Issue, and a Problem, and a Situation Which May Reflect Poorly on the Church.
















:

LOL about the mommy finger though.....I think I did that the other night, too!







:

It drives me beyond batty that the same people that are "concerned about disturbing others" don't realize how their attitudes of intolerance towards young children or the parents of young children are speaking VOLUMES about where the heart of the church truly is.









(and LMK if you'd like me to edit to match your comfort level)


----------



## mommaduck

Prayers that ya'll don't have too much, if any, fall out on this. I don't blame you one bit for what said


----------



## SheBear

your dh sounds like a good guy!









excellent point about who was watching her class....I'll bet a group of preschoolers can get pretty loud if left unattended for even just a few minutes...not to even mention what else they could do!







:


----------



## ebethmom

.


----------



## User101

One thing I've noticed both as a pastor's spouse and when I taught in two different preschools that met at a church is that churches are just absolutely universally AWFUL when it comes to sharing space.


----------



## User101

Oh, and I don't think I told you all I'm working for the church now. I'm directing the children's choirs, and I started tonight!


----------



## mommaduck

I have a bit of a situation. There was some misunderstanding we found out this week. One of our concerns about seminary was "how are we going to 'make it' financially". I have to stay home (we homeschool and I have several little ones that aren't old enough for school). I could get a part time job, but that would cut into hubby's study time unless I work something out with cousin (which we tried this summer, but I didn't get hired..."out of the job market too long"; I'm still looking. We were told that I was to not worry about working and that things will be provided for. Hubby will be working part time for a church and we will have church oversight on our needs and expenses. Now we are also being told that we need to try to acquire what grants we can to help with living expenses. So hubby has set me on that today (he has to work, does not work anywhere near a computer, and I'm the computer geek of the family...usually, I can find anything. This time I can only find a bunch of scam/buy our book websites so far. How do I find these kinds of grants???


----------



## ebethmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Oh, and I don't think I told you all I'm working for the church now. I'm directing the children's choirs, and I started tonight!









Congratulations! Someday we'll be in a church big enough for a real children's choir. What ages are you working with?


----------



## User101

Mommaduck, I have no idea. We were really irresponsible and lived on student loans AND had two babies in seminary.







:

I'm working with 1st through 6th graders. I'm also hoping to start a teen group, even if just for the youth service.


----------



## samuelsmom

Ah. Tomorrow is another Sunday. Not to whine, but sometimes I just long to sit all together as a family (and not have sole responsibility for all 3 kiddos). Here's hoping that we'll get through the service with a minimum of screams, threats, or tears! I figured you ladies would understand!


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *samuelsmom* 
Ah. Tomorrow is another Sunday. Not to whine, but sometimes I just long to sit all together as a family (and not have sole responsibility for all 3 kiddos). Here's hoping that we'll get through the service with a minimum of screams, threats, or tears! I figured you ladies would understand!









I understand completely. It's one of the hardest parts of this gig.


----------



## ebethmom

Pew time is getting a little bit easier here. But just GETTING to church is hard. We don't do mornings gracefully!

Wish us luck this Sunday! My dh serves two churches. I almost always take our kids to the town church since the country church meets so early. Tomorrow, we're going to the country church so I can get us fed, packed, and ready to hit the road as soon as dh is finished.

My kids call the country church "That Boring Church with only Two Kids." Hard to argue with that description! But I am hoping that we can through the morning with pleasant attitudes. They are ready to leave for vacation NOW! As am I!


----------



## theretohere

Mammaduck- doesn't the school have a financial aid office? That's where we got the heads up to most of our grants. Everything we got is Synod specific, otherwise I'd point you in that direction.


----------



## User101

I was going to try to get Nicholas (who turns 5 tomorrow) out of the nursery and I was also going to try to keep Daniel (1) out. It's impossible. I think I'm going to be merciful to me and them both and let them play in the nursery, at least for now.


----------



## samuelsmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
I was going to try to get Nicholas (who turns 5 tomorrow) out of the nursery and I was also going to try to keep Daniel (1) out. It's impossible. I think I'm going to be merciful to me and them both and let them play in the nursery, at least for now.

Oh, I wish we had a reliable nursery. Sometimes there's someone there, but mostly there isn't. I don't need it all the time, or even most of the time, but it would be nice on the days when Mary is just off the hook. Thank goodness for the other pastor's wife, who sits with us and helps as much as she can! (She's been through it, too, lol!)


----------



## mommaduck

Quote:


Originally Posted by *theretohere* 
Mammaduck- doesn't the school have a financial aid office? That's where we got the heads up to most of our grants. Everything we got is Synod specific, otherwise I'd point you in that direction.

The school is non-accredited. Depending upon our denominations financial support standing with the school, hubby should be able to receive a tuition waiver. But the school doesn't qualify for any other kinds of grants other than VA. Though a veteran, they've tightened the qualifications up on those so much that he most likely won't qualify and it would be for tuition only, not living expenses.


----------



## Maggirayne

Shoot, I don't come here and miss the wild time.

It sounds like it was not a fun situation. I totally agree how people's heart really show at times, and it's pretty. And when they are supposed to be representatives of God, well, I get annoyed.
But then I'm not perfect, and I'm trying to show grace to everyone, but I sure need it!









The children's choir sounds fun!

I have no suggestions for the grants. Sorry.

ETA: We take 16 mo DD to Bible study with us and she runs around and 'visits' everyone. If someone didn't like it, I'd quit. Sitting in church, well, she does sometimes. We end up walking around a lot during the service. She likes the nursery at MOPS, but I don't want to put her in when I don't really *have to* or anymore than I need to.


----------



## User101

I used to have these dreams of a passel of perfectly behaved children on the pew next to me. But there's only one of me. No one offers to sit with me and help (which is fine and everything; I'm just sayin'). And Daddy is right up front, the baby wants him, and the five-year-old keeps yelling out answers to rhetorical questions ("Are there any other announcements? TELL THEM ABOUT MY BIRTHDAY PARTY, DADDY!" "Was John's baptism of God or of man?: "OF MAN!!!" --wrong answer, sweetie)

So, much as it's hard to let go of the ideal, I really do think they'll be happier playing in the nursery. And I'll be a nicer mama.


----------



## theretohere

Does anyone else live in a parsonage? With all the "fun" that entails?


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *theretohere* 
Does anyone else live in a parsonage? With all the "fun" that entails?

We lived in one for a year while DH was on internship. The Boy Scouts kept showing up on my front porch thinking they were meeting in my basement, and our bedroom curtains were the same garish red print as the ones in the church library. It was like waking up in hell. Never. Again.


----------



## Maggirayne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
And Daddy is right up front, the baby wants him, and the five-year-old keeps yelling out answers to rhetorical questions ("Are there any other announcements? TELL THEM ABOUT MY BIRTHDAY PARTY, DADDY!" "Was John's baptism of God or of man?: "OF MAN!!!" --wrong answer, sweetie)

So, much as it's hard to let go of the ideal, I really do think they'll be happier playing in the nursery. And I'll be a nicer mama.

I wonder if she'd like the nursery more. Maybe later. I just want her with me. even if she's an antsy-pants. She's mine!

Oh dear. My dad had an older fellow who sat on the second row and would answer the questions sometimes. He also didn't like it when my dad laughed--which was a lot. My dad loves to tell stories.


----------



## ebethmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *theretohere* 
Does anyone else live in a parsonage? With all the "fun" that entails?

Our current appointment has a parsonage. We like this one! The master bedroom could be a bit bigger, but that's my only complaint. We're at the end of a dead-end street (not a cul-de-sac, but a REAL dead-end. Our neighbor parks his hunting pickup in the grassy spot where the road just ends.) This parsonage even has a handicap ramp that's great for scooters and bikes. Our kids have a big yard to play in. We've been doing school outside at the table in our carport just about every day. We watch the cows while we do our work.

Our church takes good care of the parsonage. We've had one or two minor issues, and they have taken care of it right away. Our church members here give us our space and privacy. I've never had a church member here just show up without notice.

Our last parsonage was a nightmare (as was the church that owned it).

The housing allowance before that turned into a nightmare! Trying to sell a home on 6 weeks notice is just impractical. It sat on the market for a year. We'll be paying for that for the next decade.

The first parsonage that I lived in was my favorite. Ahhhhh, the memories. It was a 4 bedroom brick with white columns, across for the Zoo in a big city. I would move back there in a heartbeat.


----------



## MamaRabbit

Hi everyone! My DH is an ordained minister and right now he's with an international Christian school. We are missionaries overseas and have been here for 7 years. Reading everyone's posts makes me not feel like it's so crazy with kids in church, responsibilities, expectations, etc.

annettemarie, that's so funny about your DS answering in church!


----------



## theretohere

Now- if you have opted out of Social Security you don't have to pay taxes on the parsonage, just the salary. One of the biggest benefits I've seen of a parsonage. Well, that and not having to sell it.


----------



## ebethmom

Clergy tax law is one big convoluted mess! If dh could go back and choose again, he would opt out of SS. But at the time, he felt a sense of responsibility for his parent's generation.


----------



## User101

Here's something I was wondering-- I know a church can lose its tax-exempt status for endorsing a candidate from the pulpit. If there was a parsonage, could the residents put signs in the yard endorsing a candidate? If we wanted to, could we, since our house is paid for with our housing allowance? I'm totally just curious.


----------



## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Here's something I was wondering-- I know a church can lose its tax-exempt status for endorsing a candidate from the pulpit. If there was a parsonage, could the residents put signs in the yard endorsing a candidate? If we wanted to, could we, since our house is paid for with our housing allowance? I'm totally just curious.

I asked DH and he said (and I quote), "Dunno. Wouldn't risk it." A really safe way to do it is put up issue signs- with your standpoint on the issues, not the candidates.


----------



## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebethmom* 
Clergy tax law is one big convoluted mess! If dh could go back and choose again, he would opt out of SS. But at the time, he felt a sense of responsibility for his parent's generation.

It IS a mess. I'm really glad that DH opted out- I just don't think SS is going to be around.


----------



## mommaduck

Prayers. Tonight is the first meeting of our steps towards seminary. Application has been made, 2 letters received, preparing to move several states away (but my homestate, so YAY!), looking for a house to rent, hubby is working on his resume, and he's looking for a decent paying, full time, blue collar job. Please keep us in prayer. This is scary and exciting at the same time.


----------



## samuelsmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *theretohere* 
Does anyone else live in a parsonage? With all the "fun" that entails?

Yep, another parsonage-dweller here. It's not bad, really. We can't afford a house (even with a housing allowance, it's just not a good idea at the moment), and they really do leave us alone. It's a much bigger home than we could afford (4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, with a full basement that half of is finished). I have no complaints. I never thought I'd like living in a parsonage, and it does have a few drawbacks, but it's really been great for us overall.


----------



## User101

Hey mamas, I started a thread about opting out of SS here, if anyone wants to chime in.

Also, I don't think I've told you how thrilled I am to see this thread hopping!


----------



## samuelsmom

OK...here's my take on the SS thing... It is my understanding that in order to opt out, you are supposedly saying that you are philosophically opposed to all forms of state assistance. That would include food stamps, medicaid, welfare, etc. Since dh and I are not opposed to those things in principle (even if not in practice these days) we do not opt out of SS. I may be wrong about that, but that's the discussion I seem to remember having with him way back when...


----------



## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *samuelsmom* 
OK...here's my take on the SS thing... It is my understanding that in order to opt out, you are supposedly saying that you are philosophically opposed to all forms of state assistance. That would include food stamps, medicaid, welfare, etc. Since dh and I are not opposed to those things in principle (even if not in practice these days) we do not opt out of SS. I may be wrong about that, but that's the discussion I seem to remember having with him way back when...

You are conscienciously objecting to welfare/ aid for money earned preaching. It's on the form 4461. You aren't saying that you are opposed to any of those things that you listed- just for paying in on money earned from the church.


----------



## User101

How is everyone doing? I'm feeling stretched and like I really need a break, but have no hope of getting one. In the past two months, I have probably had 3 hours completely to myself. DH's schedule has been nuts, he went away on retreat for a week, and he's been working on his days off. Granted, it's funerals and the like, and I get that he has to do it, but still.. it leaves me really needing some time.

I have been avoiding going to the grocery store because I don't want to do it with 4 kids. It's not even that they're trouble. I'm just so tired of doing everything alone.

I could hire a sitter, but there's no one I really trust with all 4, including the baby, and I need to get away from him too.

Also, there's been a resurgence of the dumb phone calls. People are treating me like an unpaid secretary again, and it's ticking me off.


----------



## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
How is everyone doing? I'm feeling stretched and like I really need a break, but have no hope of getting one. In the past two months, I have probably had 3 hours completely to myself. DH's schedule has been nuts, he went away on retreat for a week, and he's been working on his days off. Granted, it's funerals and the like, and I get that he has to do it, but still.. it leaves me really needing some time.

I have been avoiding going to the grocery store because I don't want to do it with 4 kids. It's not even that they're trouble. I'm just so tired of doing everything alone.

I could hire a sitter, but there's no one I really trust with all 4, including the baby, and I need to get away from him too.

Also, there's been a resurgence of the dumb phone calls. People are treating me like an unpaid secretary again, and it's ticking me off.

We're... ok.







DH has started serving as a vacancy pastor at a church to the west on top of his original church, so we've doubled the amount of services and classes. And the amount of time he's away.
Other then that, things are good.
That's tough about the grocery store- is there a delivery service?


----------



## User101

Not here. Plus for our budget to work, I have to go to three different stores, including an Amish surplus outlet. With coupons, it just works out better without kids.

Sounds like your schedule has gotten more complex as well.


----------



## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Not here. Plus for our budget to work, I have to go to three different stores, including an Amish surplus outlet. With coupons, it just works out better without kids.

Sounds like your schedule has gotten more complex as well.

It has, but I only have the two right now.
I know you said there's no one you'd trust to babysit them all, but what about leaving some of them with a sitter? Or doing 1 store a day?
We're 30 + miles from all shopping, so I just have to grit my teeth and get it done- knowing that there's a meltdown in store.
Will your DH's schedule relax after Advent?


----------



## User101

After Epiphany there will be a brief lull until Lent. Well, sort of. He has the youth gathering sometime in January.

Please tell me Lent isn't superearly like it was last year...


----------



## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
After Epiphany there will be a brief lull until Lent. Well, sort of. He has the youth gathering sometime in January.

Please tell me Lent isn't superearly like it was last year...

DH just said Lent is end of Feb, so a brief break there.







it sounds like it's a really hard time right now.


----------



## User101

It will be OK. Maybe I could hire two youth group kids to come over and watch all 4. That's twice the money, though...


----------



## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
It will be OK. Maybe I could hire two youth group kids to come over and watch all 4. That's twice the money, though...

I see an opportunity for confirmation extra credit!








Yeah, it sounds like a no win situation right now.


----------



## User101

Hee. I keep telling DH he should offer "Sit with the pastor's wife and help her with the kids during church" as a Confirmation project, but he says no.


----------



## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Hee. I keep telling DH he should offer "Sit with the pastor's wife and help her with the kids during church" as a Confirmation project, but he says no.

I feel so lucky- at this church the president of the congregation and his wife sit with us most Sundays. It's so nice and I wish more congregations would help out pastor's wives.


----------



## SheBear

Hey ladies!







We are also craazxy busy, LOL! We are in the process of moving (FInally! OFFIcially!) and we even have a timeline. We will be moving as soon as school is out for the winter break (dh's secular job is with the public schools) in Dec.

The 18th is the last day of school, then we will get the moving truck(s) on the road on the 19th.....which just so happens to be our 10th wedding anniversary! Woot! I have a feeling we're gonna have a super-romantic one--NOT! Maybe we can try for a quickie at a rest area, LOL! Or say--can you order in champagne and strawberries at a Motel 6?









Yeah, I didn't think so....

Oh, and then on the 20th, it's the baby's first birthday, which will also be spent on the road! Yee-haw! And hopefully, we'll make it to our new house (at least, hopefully we'll HAVE a new house by then! Haven't found one yet!







) by that evening, so we can start unpacking boxes...

So, we are officially cancelling all of Christmas and any incidental winter festivities. None of it is happening. I refuse to acknowledge that the rest of the world is enjoying cocoa and marshmallows by the fire while I'm unpacking boxes and hunting for toilet paper in a strange house.









Oh, and did I mention that we are leaving the (relative) warmth of Florida in Dec. to go to _Ft. Wayne, INDIANA?????_ It must be God's will, because it makes no earthly sense!







:

But seriously, I'm looking forward to it, and the kids are really excited, too.







: Every day they ask if we are going to Indiana today...actually, the 2 yo says "Andy Anna"









I'm just feeling a mite overwhelmed, and having a hard time getting organized with what to do first. I guess what I need to do first is get off the computer, hmmm?









Love to you all!


----------



## User101

Sarah, you and your family will be in our prayers. Happy moving! And "Andy Anna" is too sweet.


----------



## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SheBear* 
Hey ladies!







We are also craazxy busy, LOL! We are in the process of moving (FInally! OFFIcially!) and we even have a timeline. We will be moving as soon as school is out for the winter break (dh's secular job is with the public schools) in Dec.

The 18th is the last day of school, then we will get the moving truck(s) on the road on the 19th.....which just so happens to be our 10th wedding anniversary! Woot! I have a feeling we're gonna have a super-romantic one--NOT! Maybe we can try for a quickie at a rest area, LOL! Or say--can you order in champagne and strawberries at a Motel 6?









Yeah, I didn't think so....

Oh, and then on the 20th, it's the baby's first birthday, which will also be spent on the road! Yee-haw! And hopefully, we'll make it to our new house (at least, hopefully we'll HAVE a new house by then! Haven't found one yet!







) by that evening, so we can start unpacking boxes...

So, we are officially cancelling all of Christmas and any incidental winter festivities. None of it is happening. I refuse to acknowledge that the rest of the world is enjoying cocoa and marshmallows by the fire while I'm unpacking boxes and hunting for toilet paper in a strange house.









Oh, and did I mention that we are leaving the (relative) warmth of Florida in Dec. to go to _Ft. Wayne, INDIANA?????_ It must be God's will, because it makes no earthly sense!







:

But seriously, I'm looking forward to it, and the kids are really excited, too.







: Every day they ask if we are going to Indiana today...actually, the 2 yo says "Andy Anna"









I'm just feeling a mite overwhelmed, and having a hard time getting organized with what to do first. I guess what I need to do first is get off the computer, hmmm?









Love to you all!

OOh, whatcha going to Fort Wayne for? We lived there for a few years not too long ago. I LOVED Ft. Wayne- how crunchy community- and I had an AWESOME midwife there.


----------



## SheBear

Thanks, Annettemarie!







:

theretohere, a church up there called dh to be their pastor, so that's the catalyst for the move. Really, there's a good crunchy element? How exciting! I know nothing about the city, other than the cost living and housing prices seem pretty good, compared to here!









I'd love to know what mw you used....we aren't expecting ATM, but I imagine that it will be an issue in the next couple years, Lord willing. From what I can tell, Indiana isn't a very MW friendly place, but I'm sure there's an active community....once I find it, LOL!

I need to go post in the tribal areas...


----------



## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SheBear* 
Thanks, Annettemarie!







:

theretohere, a church up there called dh to be their pastor, so that's the catalyst for the move. Really, there's a good crunchy element? How exciting! I know nothing about the city, other than the cost living and housing prices seem pretty good, compared to here!









I'd love to know what mw you used....we aren't expecting ATM, but I imagine that it will be an issue in the next couple years, Lord willing. From what I can tell, Indiana isn't a very MW friendly place, but I'm sure there's an active community....once I find it, LOL!

I need to go post in the tribal areas...

I'll PM you!


----------



## User101

DH and I just had a huge fight. I get that he can't control people dieing and going toe the hospital and funerals and stuff like that. But I hate having to be the one to bear the brunt of it all. In an ideal world, I'd want to hear him say something like "I know it's hard. When it's all over I'll take a day off so we can catch up on housework" or "Let's call a sitter so you can have some time to do the shopping". But he doesn't. He's just all "I have to do my job." The worst part of this job is feeling like your husband ministers to everyone in the world... except his own family.


----------



## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
DH and I just had a huge fight. I get that he can't control people dieing and going toe the hospital and funerals and stuff like that. But I hate having to be the one to bear the brunt of it all. In an ideal world, I'd want to hear him say something like "I know it's hard. When it's all over I'll take a day off so we can catch up on housework" or "Let's call a sitter so you can have some time to do the shopping". But he doesn't. He's just all "I have to do my job." The worst part of this job is feeling like your husband ministers to everyone in the world... except his own family.


















I'm so sorry. http://www.pastorswives.org/ Have you looked around here? I think they have some supports for dealing with the lifestyle.
It's really hard to feel like you are a widow of the church.


----------



## ebethmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
The worst part of this job is feeling like your husband ministers to everyone in the world... except his own family.

















I'm sorry you all are having a rough time! Does your husband have a group of clergy friends who help him through difficulties? Maybe he could ask how they resolve this issue with their spouses. (I've found that my dh often responds better to his clergy peers than to me. I must not present it well!)

It's so hard to function when you're just _tired_! I hope your dh can find a way to spell you for just a little while.


----------



## ebethmom

Anyone ready for the Advent season? This is a strange year for me. I play with two orchestras. Usually I play more with one than the other in December. This year, the bigger orchestra cancelled their Nutcracker services so I'm playing more with the second orchestra. All of their services are on Sundays, then we're out of town on the 28th. So I'm missing all of December. Strange. We have to hire a sitter to come on Sunday mornings to take our kids to church.


----------



## User101

That sounds crazy intense, Elizabeth. Good luck!


----------



## ebethmom

Thanks, Annettemarie! It is intense. I always play twice the usual performances in December. I am grateful for the income, but I do miss having a 'normal' Advent season. My dh talked about taking time for the wonders of Advent in his sermon today. I just figured he wasn't talking to me!


----------



## User101

If it makes you feel better, I missed church today because the nursery worker didn't show up, and I got stuck up doing it.


----------



## pammysue

Its hard missing church during Advent. I didn't go all last year, and I really missed it. I have a dust allergy that was exacerbated by my pregnancy and I got really sick at church with all the decades old decorations hung up. I am really looking forward to this year, celebrating with our new baby, Malachi.

I am wondering what everyone does to keep the focus on Christ during the season. We won't be doing Santa and I want to have lots of ways to keep the focus off Santa and presents. We are going to try a Jesse tree this year and we are planning to go to a couple of music services. I want to start some traditions now to make lots of great memories.


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## User101

One thing I do is keep my kids out of the stores. I get as much done as I can by Black Friday, and if I have to go out, I don't take them with me.

We're doing Jesse Tree ornaments, but I'm hanging them from a garland on our mantle. We don't get a tree until our anniversary, Dec. 17. We used to wait until Christmas Eve, but all the trees were gone.









We focus a lot on the season of Advent and the Advent saints during our December homeschooling as well.


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## User101

Sigh. I'm getting sick--I have an earache and a sore throat--and DH is going out of town on retreat tomorrow. Doesn't it figure.


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## User101

So, did you all make it through Advent?


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## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
So, did you all make it through Advent?

Yes, by the skin of my teeth. Although I'm hosting another Christmas party tomorrow- for the area Lutheran clergy. It's a German themed (







) one, so I'm getting to make lots of time consuming recipes I've never attempted before.
Hopefully it all turns out.
And Ephiphany is already bearing down on us.


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## User101

Sounds yummy!

Dh is at the yearly Service of Remembrance. And he has two or three funerals this week! It makes me sad to think of so much heartache this time of year.


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## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Sounds yummy!

Dh is at the yearly Service of Remembrance. And he has two or three funerals this week! It makes me sad to think of so much heartache this time of year.

















It is eery how many funerals happen this time of the year. We've only had two so far, but I forsee some more coming.


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## User101

Here's a question-- do you all go to funerals at your church?

I don't. I've gone to one or two, when we've known the family, but it's too difficult to get child care for four kids. I always feel badly, too, like if I go to one I have to go to them all. We're in a large congregation.


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## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Here's a question-- do you all go to funerals at your church?

I don't. I've gone to one or two, when we've known the family, but it's too difficult to get child care for four kids. I always feel badly, too, like if I go to one I have to go to them all. We're in a large congregation.

No, I don't. I try to drop in at all wakes, but I've skipped all the funerals.
Do you send thank you notes for all gifts and cards all year, or just occasional blanket thank yous in the bulletin?


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *theretohere* 
No, I don't. I try to drop in at all wakes, but I've skipped all the funerals.
Do you send thank you notes for all gifts and cards all year, or just occasional blanket thank yous in the bulletin?

Ooh, another great question. Blanket thank-yous. We're in the largest congregation in the synod, so much as I'd love to be personal, I just don't have the time, patience, or energy. Which do you do?


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## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Ooh, another great question. Blanket thank-yous. We're in the largest congregation in the synod, so much as I'd love to be personal, I just don't have the time, patience, or energy. Which do you do?

Considering that I STILL haven't gotten out all my Christmas cards... blanket thank yous in the bulletin.
And wow, the biggest congregation? What do you worship a Sunday, and how many pastors?


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## User101

He's been the only pastor there for a year







(he actually has convinced to hire a full-time Christian ed director rather than another pastor). And we're not a megachurch or anything. I think the membership is just over 1,000 and between 250-300 worship each Sunday (2 services). Still, it's a lot of cards and gifts and stuff!


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## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
He's been the only pastor there for a year







(he actually has convinced to hire a full-time Christian ed director rather than another pastor). And we're not a megachurch or anything. I think the membership is just over 1,000 and between 250-300 worship each Sunday (2 services). Still, it's a lot of cards and gifts and stuff!

Gotcha. You're one of the ELCA-ers, right?








Do you go to both services?


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## User101

Sometimes I don't even go to one service.









I'm the weird one who is Catholic married to an ELCA pastor. I like complications.


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## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Sometimes I don't even go to one service.









I'm the weird one who is Catholic married to an ELCA pastor. I like complications.









Ah ha! I remember that now. I'm the daughter of a LCMS pastor, as well as the wife of one.
Sometimes I WISH I missed more services. My DH is serving a vacancy as well as his normal congregation and some weeks we end up at 2+ services a day. By the end the kids are a little unruly, to say the least.


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## Quindin

Hello! I did not know there was a thread for PW (or PH) here









I am a PW myself. Have been for 5 years


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## User101

Welcome!


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## User101

Happy (??) Lent, all!

I'm bumping this up because I have a question-- how much do you know about staffing "issues" and how do you support your partner through difficult times and decisions? There's some crazy stuff going down at church right now (obviously, I can't post details) so we'd love your prayers and good thoughts.


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## theretohere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Happy (??) Lent, all!

I'm bumping this up because I have a question-- how much do you know about staffing "issues" and how do you support your partner through difficult times and decisions? There's some crazy stuff going down at church right now (obviously, I can't post details) so we'd love your prayers and good thoughts.

I know more then I let on. I try to be available for venting, to read through things and pull out the emotional language, and as a sounding board. We're going through some insanity, as well.







Maybe it's the season?


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## ebethmom

Hi all! Long time no see. Is everyone gearing up for Advent?


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## User101

Yay! Glad to see this thread back.







We're getting ready for Advent. It's crazy already.


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## SheBear

Wow, hey everyone!









I managed to get knocked up again, so I'm very pregnant and using that excuse to my advantage to avoid as much of the holiday chaos as possible!









On the other hand, this year--for the first time in our marriage--we are actually going to be doing some traditional decorating and celebrating for Christmas! I'm actually quite excited about it, but trying to curb the monster within....we have never done any celebrating before, other than taking the opportunity to visit family and share in their celebrations. Our decision has been partly doctrinal and partly philosophical, so now the trick is to find a balance that suits us....without going crazy!


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