# Is it appropriate for a teacher to breastfeed while at school?



## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

I really sympathize with women who try to return to the workforce as soon as possible and obviously I benefited greatly from my mother breastfeeding me for significantly longer than most of my peers (thanks for the supercharged immune system!), but I recently felt very uncomfortable when in a classroom when a teacher openly breastfed in front of several other students. Honestly, I thought it was pretty inappropriate and I, along with others in my class, are considering complaining to the dean. I don't want the teacher to get fired or anything, but I do think she should be reprimanded a bit for her behavior and lack of consideration for others.

However, before speaking with the dean, I thought I would do a little research first and see what others thought to get a fresh perspective. Should she have been more careful in selecting her locale of breastfreeding? How do other new mothers navigate this breastfeeding predicament?

- Breastfeeding Bro #BB


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

So you are grateful that you've been breasfed and you have a great immune system?
Then next time you see that teacher congratulate her or give her a thumbs up. Or at worst, mind your own business and keep your mouth shut.
You are the reason some people give up breastfeeding. Let that baby have his/her mama milk.
HTH!


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

To process this I think it would be helpful for you to ask yourself if you would have been similarly uncomfortable if this mother was feeding her child a baby bottle. If the answer is "no" I would seriously reconsider the origins of your opinion.


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## sierramtngirl (Jun 19, 2013)

You are kidding, right? And just so you know, your teacher *very likely * has her right to breastfeed in a classroom protected by law. So your discomfort doesn't matter, that's your issue.


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## sparklemaman (Oct 17, 2012)

Agreed (with the above responses!!). You might like to check this out too http://thefeministbreeder.com/why-subscribe/5-places-where-breastfeeding-is-certainly-inappropriate/


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

If it's appropriate for the baby to be in the classroom, it's appropriate for the baby to be fed in the classroom. The university probably has a policy on children in class. It probably covers ideas like safety, and the children being non-disruptive. 

Its been my experience that the occasional ability to bring children to class is helpful to many people. I wouldn't rock that particular boat.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

IdentityCrisisMama said:


> To process this I think it would be helpful for you to ask yourself if you would have been similarly uncomfortable if this mother was feeding her child a baby bottle. If the answer is "no" I would seriously reconsider the origins of your opinion.


Of course it would be fine if she was feeding her child a baby bottle, but having a bare breast in a public setting is a completely different issue.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

sierramtngirl said:


> You are kidding, right? And just so you know, your teacher *very likely * has her right to breastfeed in a classroom protected by law. So your discomfort doesn't matter, that's your issue.


Why doesn't my discomfort matter? It makes me uncomfortable and I'm at school to learn, not to watch a teacher breastfeed her child. It's distracting and I found it inappropriate. SEveral of my classmates obviously agreed.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

Your discomfort doesn't matter because this is a child's nutrition at stake. This isn't NOLA style Mardi Gras bead grabbing she's feeding a baby! Being extremely disturbed by breastfeeding is a sign of immaturity very similar to children giggling in health class because someone said the S.E.X. word. This is college is it not? Maybe something has changed since I've been in college but I'm pretty sure most college students either have breasts or have seen them. It's not a big deal. If you wouldn't be disturbed by her giving the baby a bottle then you shouldn't be disturbed by her breastfeeding.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

sparklemaman said:


> Agreed (with the above responses!!). You might like to check this out too http://thefeministbreeder.com/why-subscribe/5-places-where-breastfeeding-is-certainly-inappropriate/


This seems like the author might be joking. No kidding you shouldn't breastfeed in traffic! Because it's dangerous, you might get run over, and you don't want other drivers to see your breasts like that in public when you're in the middle of the road.


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## sierramtngirl (Jun 19, 2013)

HashtagBB said:


> Why doesn't my discomfort matter? It makes me uncomfortable and I'm at school to learn, not to watch a teacher breastfeed her child. It's distracting and I found it inappropriate. SEveral of my classmates obviously agreed.


Your discomfort doesn't matter because she is protected by law. That is why it's your issue.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

crazyms said:


> Your discomfort doesn't matter because this is a child's nutrition at stake. This isn't NOLA style Mardi Gras bead grabbing she's feeding a baby! Being extremely disturbed by breastfeeding is a sign of immaturity very similar to children giggling in health class because someone said the S.E.X. word. This is college is it not? Maybe something has changed since I've been in college but I'm pretty sure most college students either have breasts or have seen them. It's not a big deal. If you wouldn't be disturbed by her giving the baby a bottle then you shouldn't be disturbed by her breastfeeding.


Woah, no need for the hostility. I have seen breasts, but it's different to see them in a private setting and in a public setting. The difference is that in a classroom, teaching should be the number one priority, and the child has a lot of other ways to get the necessary nutrition it needs. It seems more like the teacher is making a statement about breastfeeding at our expense. I think that behavior is wrong.

Again, I am not extremely disturbed by the thought of breastfeeding. I was just extremely disturbed to see a teacher to blatantly do it in front of all of us, as I had never seen something like that before.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

HashtagBB said:


> Should she have been more careful in selecting her locale of breastfreeding? How do other new mothers navigate this breastfeeding predicament?
> 
> - Breastfeeding Bro #BB


A mother should nurse her baby where ever she is when the baby gets hungry. A breastfeeding mother should nurse her baby anywhere just like a formula feeding mother gives a bottle anywhere. I have nursed three children and I nursed them anytime and place they needed to eat including McDonald's, walking through Walmart or grocery stores, parks, doctor's offices and anywhere else we went.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

sierramtngirl said:


> Your discomfort doesn't matter because she is protected by law. That is why it's your issue.


How is she protected by law? I'm pretty sure there's no law that says you can just openly show your breasts in a public space. That has to be indecent exposure or something. It's a shame that she's using her child like that to get attention. She could easily just use a bottle.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

crazyms said:


> A mother should nurse her baby where ever she is when the baby gets hungry. A breastfeeding mother should nurse her baby anywhere just like a formula feeding mother gives a bottle anywhere. I have nursed three children and I nursed them anytime and place they needed to eat including McDonald's, walking through Walmart or grocery stores, parks, doctor's offices and anywhere else we went.


Did you consider the reaction of others when you made that decision? For example, what if there were young kids around who saw you doing that? It just seems like you have a choice when and where to breastfeed, and doing it in public might be a little off-putting or inappropriate, especially to some groups of people or cultures or religions.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

Nightwish said:


> So you are grateful that you've been breasfed and you have a great immune system?
> Then next time you see that teacher congratulate her or give her a thumbs up. Or at worst, mind your own business and keep your mouth shut.
> You are the reason some people give up breastfeeding. Let that baby have his/her mama milk.
> HTH!


How am I the reason? Gosh, no need for the hostility here. I'm just asking questions! I haven't spoken with her or the dean yet, which is why I cam here first. You're blaming me and making me out to be this horrible person when you don't even know all the facts.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

HashtagBB said:


> How is she protected by law? I'm pretty sure there's no law that says you can just openly show your breasts in a public space. That has to be indecent exposure or something. It's a shame that she's using her child like that to get attention. She could easily just use a bottle.


Once again she is protected by law because she is feeding a baby! Like I said this isn't NOLA and the Mardi Gras parade where she's flashing you for the fun of it. She is nourishing a child. That is a fundamental right and she has no reason not to do so in a public place for your convenience. You also have a right to leave the room if it bothers you so much. The law protects breastfeeding mothers and their right to nurse in public because it is a fundamental right to feed our children.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

crazyms said:


> Once again she is protected by law because she is feeding a baby! Like I said this isn't NOLA and the Mardi Gras parade where she's flashing you for the fun of it. She is nourishing a child. That is a fundamental right and she has no reason not to do so in a public place for your convenience. You also have a right to leave the room if it bothers you so much. The law protects breastfeeding mothers and their right to nurse in public because it is a fundamental right to feed our children.


Actually, no, I can't just get out and leave the room because I would lose participation/attendance credit for that class. And I would probably fail my test. Like I said, she's not being considerate to her students, I was offended, and as a pre-law major I have never come across such a law for indecent exposure.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

HashtagBB said:


> Did you consider the reaction of others when you made that decision? For example, what if there were young kids around who saw you doing that? It just seems like you have a choice when and where to breastfeed, and doing it in public might be a little off-putting or inappropriate, especially to some groups of people or cultures or religions.


No I did not. It would not occur to me that others would find it offensive that I fed my child since I'm pretty sure starving a baby is considered neglect. :wink: I'm not going to give my child a bottle to make someone else feel better.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

HashtagBB said:


> Actually, no, I can't just get out and leave the room because I would lose participation/attendance credit for that class. And I would probably fail my test. Like I said, she's not being considerate to her students, I was offended, and _*as a pre-law major I have never come across such a law for indecent exposure.*_


The bolded part here. Try looking into breastfeeding law to understand more. It is not indecent exposure when you are nursing a baby.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

crazyms said:


> No I did not. It would not occur to me that others would find it offensive that I fed my child since I'm pretty sure starving a baby is considered neglect. :wink: I'm not going to give my child a bottle to make someone else feel better.


You wouldn't be neglecting your baby by feeding it with a bottle when you were in public, you would just be showing sensitivity to the feelings, cultures, and religions of others. If you were so insistent on breastfeeding, you could do it in a more private location.

Also, there's a difference between your situation and mine. You might disagree with my viewpoint, but I was basically FORCED to stay in the classroom and watch her breastfeed even though I was very uncomfortable, while you did not force anybody else to stand next to you in Wal Mart or in public or wherever you were.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

crazyms said:


> The bolded part here. Try looking into breastfeeding law to understand more. It is not indecent exposure when you are nursing a baby.


Ok but even if it isn't indecent exposure, I can't find any law that supports it. And from googling, it looks like I'm not the only one who is uncomfortable around these kinds of situation.

Who knew mothers could be so insensitive to the feelings of others?


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## sierramtngirl (Jun 19, 2013)

HashtagBB said:


> How is she protected by law? I'm pretty sure there's no law that says you can just openly show your breasts in a public space. That has to be indecent exposure or something. It's a shame that she's using her child like that to get attention. She could easily just use a bottle.


Yes actually, most states have actual laws that say that it is ok for a mom to breastfeed anywhere she is. And if a breast is seen during breastfeeding, oops. I know I've certainly *unintentionally* shown more breast that I care to during breastfeeding.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

HashtagBB said:


> How is she protected by law? I'm pretty sure there's no law that says you can just openly show your breasts in a public space. That has to be indecent exposure or something. It's a shame that she's using her child like that to get attention. She could easily just use a bottle.


Actually, the law generally states that a woman may legally breastfeed wherever she and the child are legally able to be.

I think I'm in the minority here, sort of. I would not be bothered by the breastfeeding itself, but I don't think professors should bring their children to class.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

sierramtngirl said:


> Yes actually, most states have actual laws that say that it is ok for a mom to breastfeed anywhere she is. And if a breast is seen during breastfeeding, oops. I know I've certainly *unintentionally* shown more breast that I care to during breastfeeding.


What about if a professor brings her child to class and breastfeeds and basically forces all the students attending to stay and watch? That has to be like false imprisonment or something.


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## jen2 (May 26, 2014)

Hashtag, I think you came to the wrong place if you were looking for support for your cause. Breastfeeding mothers are very passionate about there right to do so and I don't think you'll be changing any minds here. If you feel so strongly about this impeding upon your education than by all means bring it up.


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## stormborn (Dec 8, 2001)

I'm not familiar with any state but my own, but here indecent exposure doesn't apply to a Mom feeding her child. It breaks down to "Mom can breastfeed anywhere she has the right to be". Your prof. might run up against school policy but in the U.S. she is surely within her legal rights. 

I'm assuming she's nursing in class because the alternative would be a screaming baby at her lecture, surely a bigger distraction. "Just give a bottle" can be much harder than it seems; not all women can pump milk easily. Is it a young infant? It's easier to time feedings for Mom's breaks with older babies, not so much for newborns. 

I'm assuming it's a lecture class, not a lab with one on one instruction? If so, just keep your eyes on your notes or on the presentation, just as you would in any public place when there's something you'd rather not see.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

chickabiddy said:


> Actually, the law generally states that a woman may legally breastfeed wherever she and the child are legally able to be.
> 
> I think I'm in the minority here, sort of. I would not be bothered by the breastfeeding itself, but I don't think professors should bring their children to class.


Finally, someone who understands what I'm trying to say!! I was very, very uncomfortable and think it's really inappropriate for a professor to bring a child to class and openly breastfeed.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

jen2 said:


> Hashtag, I think you came to the wrong place if you were looking for support for your cause. Breastfeeding mothers are very passionate about there right to do so and I don't think you'll be changing any minds here. If you feel so strongly about this impeding upon your education than by all means bring it up.


I was actually trying to find the other side of the story. Just asking questions here.

Not necessarily trying to change minds because most people here seem really stubborn about their views anyway.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

The only issue here is whether or not it is appropriate for a teacher to be caring for her child while she is teaching. Most of the time, I imagine, the teacher's baby is cared for at a daycare or by a babysitter or the child's other parent, so the teacher herself can focus on her work. However, for the one year that the child is an infant, it feeds on demand, so accommodations have to be made for the teacher to feed or occasionally care for her child at work. Many universities and other workplaces have such accommodations built in to their system for mothers of young infants.

You don't seem to have a problem with this teacher caring for her child in front of you on an occasional basis, since you said it would be ok if the teacher were there with her baby, feeding it a bottle. So it seems that your problem is just that it was disturbing to you personally that you SAW HER BOOBS. OK. We are here to guide you through the process of dealing with this trauma, my friend. You will see boobs again, and they won't always be for sex and they won't always be for you, so you are going to have to learn to grow up and deal with it!

It is going to be ok.



HashtagBB said:


> Why doesn't my discomfort matter? It makes me uncomfortable and I'm at school to learn, not to watch a teacher breastfeed her child. It's distracting and I found it inappropriate. SEveral of my classmates obviously agreed.


Your personal discomfort doesn't matter because lots of things make lots of people uncomfortable that we still have the right to do. For instance, it makes racist people uncomfortable to see an interracial couple walking down the street holding hands. This does not mean that the couple should avoid holding hands in public because it _might make some people uncomfortable_. The racist people just have to learn to suck it up. Right?

It's the same for nursing mothers. We have the right to nurse in public--and when you have a hungry infant and you are running errands, you cannot wait and you have to nurse them right away. It makes you, a poor squeamish male college student, uncomfortable. Why do we have to consider your feelings? Oh right, we don't. You just have to learn to suck it up, because babies have to eat. You see?



HashtagBB said:


> How is she protected by law? I'm pretty sure there's no law that says you can just openly show your breasts in a public space. That has to be indecent exposure or something. It's a shame that she's using her child like that to get attention. She could easily just use a bottle.


She is not using her child to get attention. She is feeding her child. This is not about you, it is about a hungry baby. You are wrong that this is no law about breast exposure during public breastfeeding. Tell us your state or province, and we will give you the law! Most states and provinces have laws, although not all.



HashtagBB said:


> Did you consider the reaction of others when you made that decision? For example, what if there were young kids around who saw you doing that? It just seems like you have a choice when and where to breastfeed, and doing it in public might be a little off-putting or inappropriate, especially to some groups of people or cultures or religions.


A nursing mother does not always have a choice about where to breastfeed. Your teacher, for instance, was in a classroom (I imagine) and was working while her baby needed to eat. Infants cannot wait to eat, and it would be a big inconvenience for your teacher to leave her workplace.

When I had a nursing infant, it would have been a great inconvenience to stay at home all day in case my child needed to nurse. He needed to nurse about every hour, and I had grocery shopping to do, and board meetings to attend, and wine to drink in the afternoon in restaurants my friends. So I did those things, and when my baby was hungry, I fed him, and when he wasn't, he was an infant, and sat like a blob in a carseat or slept in a carrier on my stomach, bothering no one.

If I wasn't allowed to nurse in public, it would have made my (already sleepless) life very difficult.

However, what about people who have _feelings about seeing my boobs_? What about their _very important feelings_? Don't their _feelings _trump the immediate needs of a _hungry child_? Doesn't having me breastfeeding them near them make their lives _so very difficult_? Well, no, it doesn't. All they have to do if they can't bear to see it--and all you have to do, Bro--is simply look away and continue on with their day.

So I encourage you to practice not staring at the breast and sucking it up! It will become easier for you to do with practice. It will eventually be no work at all for you to look away, and you will have just made a new mom's life, and a baby's life, a lot easier. Encourage your friends to suck it up, too, and you can all feel great about supporting young families!


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Respectfully, I don't think we're completely on the same side, HashtagBB. I think women should breastfeed at their convenience and I did so myself for many years.

I think the child in the classroom is a separate issue. I would not be pleased with a bottlefed baby in a college classroom either.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

stormborn said:


> I'm not familiar with any state but my own, but here indecent exposure doesn't apply to a Mom feeding her child. It breaks down to "Mom can breastfeed anywhere she has the right to be". Your prof. might run up against school policy but in the U.S. she is surely within her legal rights.
> 
> I'm assuming she's nursing in class because the alternative would be a screaming baby at her lecture, surely a bigger distraction. "Just give a bottle" can be much harder than it seems; not all women can pump milk easily. Is it a young infant? It's easier to time feedings for Mom's breaks with older babies, not so much for newborns.
> 
> I'm assuming it's a lecture class, not a lab with one on one instruction? If so, just keep your eyes on your notes or on the presentation, just as you would in any public place when there's something you'd rather not see.


I'm not familiar with the age of her baby because it doesn't have tree rings or any identifiable aging information, and the professor has never brought her to class before. I would assume the baby is very, very young though because it seems small.

Yes, it's a lecture class, but I can't keep my eyes on my notes because she writes things on the board, points at stuff, and generally gesticulates extensively while she talks. Only I had trouble paying attention because of the breastfeeding.

Also, I disagree with it being a screaming baby vs. not screaming baby. The alternative would've been to bring a bottle, or even better, leave the baby at home. I don't think she did that because she has a reputation for being a feminist professor and was trying to make a political point.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

HashtagBB said:


> You wouldn't be neglecting your baby by feeding it with a bottle when you were in public, you would just be showing sensitivity to the feelings, cultures, and religions of others. If you were so insistent on breastfeeding, you could do it in a more private location.
> 
> Also, there's a difference between your situation and mine. You might disagree with my viewpoint, but I was basically FORCED to stay in the classroom and watch her breastfeed even though I was very uncomfortable, while you did not force anybody else to stand next to you in Wal Mart or in public or wherever you were.


There are many flaws to your theory. Not all mothers can pump or easily pump breast milk to be able to give bottles. There are also babies that have trouble switching back and forth or even refuse the artificial nipple. It could be a detriment to the breastfeeding relationship to give the baby the artificial nipples for some mothers.

You may have had to be in class but you were not forced to stare at her breasts. Just like a pp said you had the option of looking at your notes or the presentation, anywhere other than where her breasts were. The major issue here is that with the exception of getting the baby latched on there is not any real breast being seen while nursing. Once a baby is latched on the baby covers the nipple and the only "breast" being seen is the upper flesh that is no different than the cleavage being seen above other women's tank tops in public. As a college student I'm sure you are no doubt seeing plenty of "cleavage" around campus. Unless you want to start an outright warpath on decency and modesty on campus thus banning sagging pants on men, tank tops/sheer tops/etc that would show cleaving on girls, two piece swimsuits and more then you really have no right to complain about the tiny amount of cleavage seen during a nursing session.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

HashtagBB said:


> I'm not familiar with the age of her baby because it doesn't have tree rings or any identifiable aging information, and the professor has never brought her to class before. I would assume the baby is very, very young though because it seems small.
> 
> Yes, it's a lecture class, but I can't keep my eyes on my notes because she writes things on the board, points at stuff, and generally gesticulates extensively while she talks. Only I had trouble paying attention because of the breastfeeding.
> 
> Also, I disagree with it being a screaming baby vs. not screaming baby. The alternative would've been to bring a bottle, or even better, leave the baby at home. I don't think she did that because she has a reputation for being a feminist professor and was trying to make a political point.


If she's never brought the baby to class before, it seems that she regularly has childcare for her infant, so, as I said in my previous post, this isn't an issue of whether to have a child at class or not. It seems like normally, she does not bring her child, but everyone with a young infant has crises once in awhile and has to either miss work or bring the baby. Most workplaces today are accommodating of that, and it's kind of a dick move to object to a hard-working teacher who mostly has childcare but had to bring her young infant to work for just one class. We've all been there.

"Just give a bottle" is sort of an ignorant comment. Some babies won't drink bottles--mine certainly would not take one--he'd scream bloody murder when one came near his mouth. Besides, there's no point in giving a baby a bottle of pumped milk when the tap is right there. She doesn't have to give a bottle if she and the baby do not wish it.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MichelleZB said:


> The only issue here is whether or not it is appropriate for a teacher to be caring for her child while she is teaching. Most of the time, I imagine, the teacher's baby is cared for at a daycare or by a babysitter or the child's other parent, so the teacher herself can focus on her work. However, for the one year that the child is an infant, it feeds on demand, so accommodations have to be made for the teacher to feed or occasionally care for her child at work. Many universities and other workplaces have such accommodations built in to their system for mothers of young infants.
> 
> You don't seem to have a problem with this teacher caring for her child in front of you on an occasional basis, since you said it would be ok if the teacher were there with her baby, feeding it a bottle. So it seems that your problem is just that it was disturbing to you personally that you SAW HER BOOBS. OK. We are here to guide you through the process of dealing with this trauma, my friend. You will see boobs again, and they won't always be for sex and they won't always be for you, so you are going to have to learn to grow up and deal with it!
> 
> ...


Aside from the general condescending tone of your post when I have been nothing but respectful on this forum, I have a problem with a number of your points.

To the first point, my personal discomfort DOES matter because I am basically being COERCED to remain in the classroom while she is making a political point in breastfeeding. I can't leave because it is against university policy to skip class, and I would lose attendance/participation credit. I'm not going to risk jeopardizing my grades and my future and possibly failing the final just because of a professor's selfishness and desire for attention. Plus, I believe that the knowledge in itself is intrinsically valuable, so anything that would cause me to miss class or just "look away" as you would say is detrimental to my development as a student and as a person.

I can't believe you would compare me to a rascist person since I am not rascist at all, so I won't even address that point because it really doesn't make sense.

To your second point, I would not consider myself a poor squeamish male. I am not squeamish because not a lot of things bother me, not even blood or bodily fluids usually, and I definitely wouldn't consider myself of a poor socioeconomic class either. But thanks again for your ad hominems, you feminist mafia shrew.

You actually do have to consider my feelings because I am a member of society like you and I am also deserving of respect. The professor has to consider my feelings because I am basically paying for part of her salary by attending the school and paying tuition. She wouldn't have a job without me! I agree that babies need to eat, but breastfeeding in public in a classroom in front of an entire lecture class, where I clearly wasn't the only one who was disturbed and personally offended.

And my point is that she, as a nursing mother, ALWAYS has her choice about where to breastfeed or not to breastfeed at all during the time she is teaching. The lecture is only 2 hours! Can't she do it before or after?! Or use a bottle. Not that hard, people. So just because it's inconvenient for her, ONE PERSON, she takes it out on a huge lecture class of maybe ONE HUNDRED people and makes it inconvenient for ALL OF THEM? Wow.

I encourage you to not be such a feminist shrew and actually consider the feelings of others instead of being so cold-hearted. I'm not saying that a hungry child shouldn't be able to eat. I'm saying that I was severely uncomfortable, that it inhibited my enrichment as a student and as a citizen of the world, and that she showed no sensitivity or respect towards me or towards the many others in my class who were offended by her despicable behavior.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

crazyms said:


> There are many flaws to your theory. Not all mothers can pump or easily pump breast milk to be able to give bottles. There are also babies that have trouble switching back and forth or even refuse the artificial nipple. It could be a detriment to the breastfeeding relationship to give the baby the artificial nipples for some mothers.
> 
> You may have had to be in class but you were not forced to stare at her breasts. Just like a pp said you had the option of looking at your notes or the presentation, anywhere other than where her breasts were. The major issue here is that with the exception of getting the baby latched on there is not any real breast being seen while nursing. Once a baby is latched on the baby covers the nipple and the only "breast" being seen is the upper flesh that is no different than the cleavage being seen above other women's tank tops in public. As a college student I'm sure you are no doubt seeing plenty of "cleavage" around campus. Unless you want to start an outright warpath on decency and modesty on campus thus banning sagging pants on men, tank tops/sheer tops/etc that would show cleaving on girls, two piece swimsuits and more then you really have no right to complain about the tiny amount of cleavage seen during a nursing session.


There's a major difference between swimsuits at a beach/ cleavage at a house party and seeing bare breasts in a large lecture, which I consider to be a professional environment.

Also, she switched breasts a couple times while breastfeeding, so yes, I did see bare breasts. Although I was not forced to stare at her breasts per say, I was forced to stare at her, WHILE SHE WAS BREASTFEEDING. She even called on me to answer a question, and I had to look at her and her breasts and her breastfeeding baby. The whole ordeal made me very uncomfortable, especially because I was sitting in the front row like I always do.

Your calling me ignorant and saying I have no right to complain is itself ignorant.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

Some food for thought for everyone here telling me to just "suck it up": Maybe the professor, who is paid to do her job to teach, not to breastfeed, could should be the one who should suck it up. Or maybe the baby should just suck it up and wait a couple hours. I'm pretty sure no one has ever died from not being able to have a little milk for like 2 hours.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MichelleZB said:


> If she's never brought the baby to class before, it seems that she regularly has childcare for her infant, so, as I said in my previous post, this isn't an issue of whether to have a child at class or not. It seems like normally, she does not bring her child, but everyone with a young infant has crises once in awhile and has to either miss work or bring the baby. Most workplaces today are accommodating of that, and it's kind of a dick move to object to a hard-working teacher who mostly has childcare but had to bring her young infant to work for just one class. We've all been there.
> 
> "Just give a bottle" is sort of an ignorant comment. Some babies won't drink bottles--mine certainly would not take one--he'd scream bloody murder when one came near his mouth. Besides, there's no point in giving a baby a bottle of pumped milk when the tap is right there. She doesn't have to give a bottle if she and the baby do not wish it.


She and the baby might not want her to give it a bottle, but I and a bunch of my classmates would feel a lot more comfortable if she did. I'm trying to say that she showed a severe lack of consideration and compassion for her students, which I found to be very off-putting and unprofessional.

Also, you're making an assumption by saying her baby won't drink a bottle. I'm almost positive that her baby will in fact drink from a bottle if this is the first time she has brought it to class. Otherwise, what was the baby drinking all those other times while she was teaching?!


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

HashtagBB said:


> Aside from the general condescending tone of your post when I have been nothing but respectful on this forum, I have a problem with a number of your points.
> 
> To the first point, my personal discomfort DOES matter because I am basically being COERCED to remain in the classroom while she is making a political point in breastfeeding. I can't leave because it is against university policy to skip class, and I would lose attendance/participation credit. I'm not going to risk jeopardizing my grades and my future and possibly failing the final just because of a professor's selfishness and desire for attention. Plus, I believe that the knowledge in itself is intrinsically valuable, so anything that would cause me to miss class or just "look away" as you would say is detrimental to my development as a student and as a person.
> 
> ...


Hashtag, you have called me a "feminist shrew" twice in your last post and have called your teacher's behaviour (feeding her child) selfish and despicable. It has become clear to me from this name-calling that you are a troll that has come to this forum to berate breastfeeding mothers.

You keep repeating how severely uncomfortable you felt while a woman breastfed in front of you, but we cannot feel any sympathy for you. Surely you will be able to get over the vexation of having seen a nipple for 2 seconds. You are an adult.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MichelleZB said:


> Hashtag, you have called me a "feminist shrew" twice in your last post and have called your teacher's behaviour (feeding her child) selfish and despicable. It has become clear to me from this name-calling that you are a troll that has come to this forum to berate breastfeeding mothers.
> 
> You keep repeating how severely uncomfortable you felt while a woman breastfed in front of you, but we cannot feel any sympathy for you. Surely you will be able to get over the vexation of having seen a nipple for 2 seconds. You are an adult.


I am not trying to berate breastfeeding mothers. As I said, my own mother breastfed me. I was here to ask what you thought about my professor's behavior because I thought it was very unusual and unprofessional.

I used those words toward you because I was upset at being called a "poor squeamish boy." But now I see you've decided to call me an adult? Ok.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

I really don't understand all the vitriol directed towards me. I guess I have a more conservative perspective than most on here, but I'm not alone in my view that the professor behaved inappropriately. There were lots of girls in my class that agreed with me. I am surprised that so many on this forum are so dismissive and resort to saying I'm immature, which I'm not, instead of addressing what I have to say.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

HashtagBB said:


> I am not trying to berate breastfeeding mothers. As I said, my own mother breastfed me. I was here to ask what you thought about my professor's behavior because I thought it was very unusual and unprofessional.


Well, you have had your answer from us: you are wrong, and this teacher was within her rights. Your unwillingness to accept that answer is what is causing you problems.



> I used those words toward you because I was upset at being called a "poor squeamish boy." But now I see you've decided to call me an adult? Ok.


I called you "poor" because you were asking for sympathy from us--you were so put upon, so distracted, made so severely uncomfortable, your very education and knowledge put at risk by this selfish, despicable, attention-seeking teacher. She and her infant were the villains and you were the victim.

I called you "squeamish" because public breastfeeding bothers you. You don't like to see it, you don't think you should have to see it or have it happen near you, and you definitely don't think that _children_ should have to see _that._ It distracts you, gives you an uncomfortable feeling. Squeamish.

I never called you a boy.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MichelleZB said:


> Well, you have had your answer from us: you are wrong, and this teacher was within her rights. Your unwillingness to accept that answer is what is causing you problems.
> 
> I called you "poor" because you were asking for sympathy from us--you were so put upon, so distracted, made so severely uncomfortable, your very education and knowledge put at risk by this selfish, despicable, attention-seeking teacher. She and her infant were the villains and you were the victim.
> 
> ...


If what I am saying is so unreasonable, then why do so many people in my class, males and females included, agree with what I'm saying? Surely we all can't be wrong.

And I'm not asking for sympathy. I was looking to see if people would consider this type of behavior appropriate, and at least one person here has admitted that it was not, in fact, appropriate. I don't think of her as a villain since she is a very good teacher. I just think she was trying to play the "feminist card" and draw unnecessary attention to herself. That's all.

Being called squeamish is rather insulting. Not sure why you can't see that. It presupposes that my reaction is unnatural and that I am uniquely offended, as if there is something wrong with me, when many of my peers were equally offended. In fact, a cursory search on google.com reveals that there have been similar episodes in the past at other schools and there is a good deal of public debate on the matter, with many professionals sharing the same perspective as me, including mothers.


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## sierramtngirl (Jun 19, 2013)

I have one more thing to say & then I'm leaving this conversation. I know in my state, state employees are allowed to bring their babies to work with them for the first year if they are breastfeeding. Many other states do the same as long as the job is safe for an infant. If you attend a state school perhaps this is the case.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

sierramtngirl said:


> I have one more thing to say & then I'm leaving this conversation. I know in my state, state employees are allowed to bring their babies to work with them for the first year if they are breastfeeding. Many other states do the same as long as the job is safe for an infant. If you attend a state school perhaps this is the case.


What state is this in? I attend a private school, so I don't think that would be relevant.

I've never heard of any professor at my school doing something like this, which makes me think it's violative of school policy.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

HashtagBB said:


> If what I am saying is so unreasonable, then why do so many people in my class, males and females included, agree with what I'm saying? Surely we all can't be wrong.


Surely not. If you talked to some other people in your college lecture class after class, and they agreed with you, then surely nothing else can be said on the matter, right?

Sorry! You and your college lecture acquaintances do not have some magical key to knowledge on civil rights.



> And I'm not asking for sympathy. I was looking to see if people would consider this type of behavior appropriate, and at least one person here has admitted that it was not, in fact, appropriate. I don't think of her as a villain since she is a very good teacher. I just think she was trying to play the "feminist card" and draw unnecessary attention to herself. That's all.


One person agreed that it is generally not appropriate to care for a child at the same time as lecturing. I agree with this, too. I have childcare for my son while I work, also, so I can focus. However, everyone with an infant will have an emergency day or two. It seems you did not have a problem with your teacher occasionally bringing her child to class, just with seeing public breastfeeding.

You also point out that breastfeeding in public is inappropriate in any situation, even when the woman is not working, but shopping, or in a park, or otherwise at her leisure.



> Being called squeamish is rather insulting. Not sure why you can't see that. It presupposes that my reaction is unnatural and that I am uniquely offended, as if there is something wrong with me, when many of my peers were equally offended. In fact, a cursory search on google.com reveals that there have been similar episodes in the past at other schools and there is a good deal of public debate on the matter, with many professionals sharing the same perspective as me, including mothers.


Again, just because some of your classmates and some people you found on the internet agree with you, it doesn't make your position virtuous.

You don't have to be the only one in the world who is disgusted by public breastfeeding to be considered squeamish--what gave you that idea? Your classmates should learn to get over their squeamishness also, for the sake of the child. Maybe some of them already have.

It is likely there are some people in your lecture class who agree with me, too. There are some who saw her breastfeed and didn't think much of it one way or another, and some that saw her breastfeed and thought, "Right on! This teacher is awesome!" The likelihood that these type of people are your particular friends, and that you would have talked to them after class, is low.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

You are talking about two issues here -- one is whether or not a professor can/should bring her child with her to work. I suspect that A LOT of people here would probably agree with you that this is unprofessional (not me, but others for sure). 

But by your own admission, the primary issue is the breast. And that's an entirely different thing to discuss and it's, in fact, a very interesting legal issue for you and your classmates to explore. 

A third issue is the motives you are attributing to your professor, which are off-putting. 

As to why your fellow students may feel the same as you -- a lot of people (A LOT!) do not think that women should breastfeed in public. So many. Really! This is not an unusual opinion but it's not one that a lot of people here at this website support. Another reason I suspect some of your classmates agree with you is because a lack of experience. A smaller percentage of college aged students have children. People who don't have kids tend to lack experience with choices about infant feeding and breastfeeding and the sorts of attitudes and policies that support (and undermine!) breastfeeding. 

If you go to the dean, do your teacher a favor and tell her that it's not that she had the kid in class or was feeding the kid in class but that you think she is playing the feminist card and attention seeking by breastfeeding.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

chickabiddy said:


> Actually, the law generally states that a woman may legally breastfeed wherever she and the child are legally able to be.
> 
> I think I'm in the minority here, sort of. I would not be bothered by the breastfeeding itself, but I don't think professors should bring their children to class.


I agree with Chickabiddy. I could see how a student might find a breast feeding professor distracting which would put the students who are paying to learn at a disadvantage.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

TCMoulton said:


> I agree with Chickabiddy. I could see how a student might find a breast feeding professor distracting which would put the students who are paying to learn at a disadvantage.


I am currently paying for school so I can and do understand wanting to get what you pay for. The question, though, should be whether a professor is welcome to feed her child while working -- not whether she is welcome to breastfeed.

This is a key distinction, IMO.

If we are talking about a university policy that would allow a professor to bottlefeed but not breastfeed, I would not support that.

I'm a bit grey on taking infants to work. I know and understand why people don't support that option. I tend to think that the benefits outweigh the negatives overall and do support baby-friendly workplaces.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MichelleZB said:


> Surely not. If you talked to some other people in your college lecture class after class, and they agreed with you, then surely nothing else can be said on the matter, right?
> 
> Sorry! You and your college lecture acquaintances do not have some magical key to knowledge on civil rights.
> 
> ...


Omg get off your high horse. I don't know if you think you're Rosa Parks or something, but this isn't a civil rights issue. It's about a college professor engaging in inappropriate, distracting, and arguably offensive behavior.

While I do think that breastfeeding is inappropriate in public locations and is better left to the privacy of the household -- such as, in the words of Justice Scalia, when the lady of the house takes her daily sauna -- I do not hold it against those mothers when they make a point of only breastfeeding outside. I would just choose to avoid them in the checkout aisle at Wal Mart or run away from them in a park.

The key issue here is that I am being FORCED to stay in the classroom or else risk jeopardizing my future as a scholar. This is tantamount to false imprisonment, which you are conveniently avoiding.

The fact that you resort to petty name-calling and criticizing my narrow worldview and saying "High five! Right on! This teacher is awesome!" says a lot here when you are dancing around the real issue. I, for one, would most certainly not give this teacher a high five for the trauma she has put me through. She better hope that I get an A on this next test.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

IdentityCrisisMama said:


> You are talking about two issues here -- one is whether or not a professor can/should bring her child with her to work. I suspect that A LOT of people here would probably agree with you that this is unprofessional (not me, but others for sure).
> 
> But by your own admission, the primary issue is the breast. And that's an entirely different thing to discuss and it's, in fact, a very interesting legal issue for you and your classmates to explore.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I follow everything you're saying. So to the first issue, the professor should not be allowed to bring her baby to class because it is distracting? That's a part of what I've been trying to say.

To the second point, yes, I do find being forced to see my teacher's breast discomforting. Fortunately I'm not a minor, but I would think that the freshmen in my class could have a case of sexual harassment here because breasts are sexual body parts. It doesn't seem appropriate so subject young, malleable minds to them when the purpose of students is to learn and they did not consent to such behavior.

To the third point, I am not only attributing motives to her. She is a pretty well-known feminist in my school, and while I don't want to out identifying information about her, she does frequently engage in feminist discourse and feminist publications. I honestly believe she is trying to push the "breast-feeding frontier" here, if you will. I personally find that behavior off-putting because I think I and my colleagues are being used as tools for a political point, which is unacceptable in a university setting.

I don't think I need experience with children to come to this more sophisticated worldview that some of you people seem to share. I just had a more conservative upbringing, and I know for a fact that my mother would never have even dreamed of breastfeeding me outside the four walls of our humble abode.

I really don't understand your last point about the dean. You said my characterization was off-putting, and now you're saying I should tell the dean that my teacher was being an attention-seeking feminist? Well, which one is it?


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

TCMoulton said:


> I agree with Chickabiddy. I could see how a student might find a breast feeding professor distracting which would put the students who are paying to learn at a disadvantage.


Thank you for expressing what I have to say so cogently. This is exactly my point, and I am happy to see that someone can at least see my perspective, even if you don't agree with me <3


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

IdentityCrisisMama said:


> I am currently paying for school so I can and do understand wanting to get what you pay for. The question, though, should be whether a professor is welcome to feed her child while working -- not whether she is welcome to breastfeed.
> 
> This is a key distinction, IMO.
> 
> ...


I'm curious as to why you think this is a key distinction. I would prefer that the child not be brought into the classroom at all, but I would be A LOT more supportive if she engaged in "bottlefeed," as you call it. That would avoid this issue of discomfort for me, and I wouldn't be nearly as distracted because her breast wouldn't be visible.

Why wouldn't you support such a policy?


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

IdentityCrisisMama said:


> If you go to the dean, do your teacher a favor and tell her that it's not that she had the kid in class or was feeding the kid in class but that you think she is playing the feminist card and attention seeking by breastfeeding.


OMG YES YOU SHOULD SAY THAT. You should lay it out the way you've explained it to us. You should tell the Dean that you don't really have a problem with the teacher bringing her child to class occasionally, and that in general she is an organized teacher about whom you have no other complaints. Then you should tell the Dean that public breastfeeding makes you, personally, uncomfortable, and that you don't appreciate _being coerced to see that_ and that seeing _that_ has distracted you. Definitely equate the whole experience to false imprisonment and describe it as deeply traumatizing.

Emphasize to the Dean that you know the teacher was just feeding her infant in front of you to seek your attention and force her feminist agenda on you. Finish by assuring the Dean that your position is reasonable because you googled this and many people on the internet share your opinion on public breastfeeding and how despicable it is. Protest you aren't being a jerk about this because, after all, your mother breastfed you, and therefore you can say what you like about this teacher and her workplace arrangements.

Lastly, express the threat that she'd better give you an A on the next test, or else you will complain some more.

Please do that and let us know how it goes.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

Okay, let's take you seriously for a minute. You found the sight of a college instructor breastfeeding during lecture distracting and detrimental to your education. Smart, pre-law kind of guy that you are, you are here to ask what to do about it.

My answers are:
1. Work on your spelling and grammar. I cannot tell you how valuable those skills will be in your current chosen profession, and in making effective complaints to the dean.

2. Consider what your professor NOT breastfeeding in class would be like. 

Perhaps your professor chose what she knew to be the surest route to keeping her baby from screaming the house down. Nearly everyone finds screaming babies distracting, and some psychologists have argued that the noise is traumatizing to bystanders. Hungry babies frequently "fuss", by which we mean, they scream.

It may also surprise you to learn that babies, even at very young ages, have preferences. Some will switch nonchalantly from breast to bottle. Some will not. I do not believe you can advance an argument that you know which kind of baby your professor has.

In addition to the probable noise, not breastfeeding in class is not a guarantee that breasts will not become visible or distracting. Crying stimulates letdown, which can be very wet.

Failing to feed an infant or pump breastmilk on a regular basis can also cause a mother pain and illness, which surely your professor, her formal employers, and the students who will one day sit bar exams would all wish to avoid.

ETA: Or take advice from Michelle and ICM and report back. That's way more fun for us.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MichelleZB said:


> OMG YES YOU SHOULD SAY THAT. You should lay it out the way you've explained it to us. You should tell the Dean that you don't really have a problem with the teacher bringing her child to class occasionally, and that in general she is an organized teacher about whom you have no other complaints. Then you should tell the Dean that public breastfeeding makes you, personally, uncomfortable, and that you don't appreciate _being coerced to see that_ and that seeing _that_ has distracted you. Definitely equate the whole experience to false imprisonment and describe it as deeply traumatizing.
> 
> Emphasize to the Dean that you know the teacher was just feeding her infant in front of you to seek your attention and force her feminist agenda on you. Finish by assuring the Dean that your position is reasonable because you googled this and many people on the internet share your opinion on public breastfeeding and how despicable it is. Protest you aren't being a jerk about this because, after all, your mother breastfed you, and therefore you can say what you like about this teacher and her workplace arrangements.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but I did feel that it was deeply traumatizing because I can't get the image of her breastfeeding out of my head, and I certainly felt compelled to stay there, which I believe is an element of false imprisonment since I lacked the ability to leave (and she lacked the authority to retain me through the shopkeeper's privileged exception).

I didn't just google it, though. I talked to my classmates, friends, parents, and I also tried sites other than google like yahoo.com, ask.com, etc. I don't see how saying my mother breastfed me is relevant to the dean because that information is a little personal. I just meant that I support breastfeeding in narrow circumstances because I understand the health benefits; I just think it's inappropriate to do it in public and very unprofessional to do in the classroom setting, as my teacher did.

I won't ask for an A on the test because I can do that on my own. I'm actually a little worried about complaining in case it gets back to the professor and she lowers my grade in the class since I'm on track to get an A/A+. I just meant that I was very distracted for that lecture and didn't retain much information, which could lower my chances of killing it on the next test. I take my studies very seriously, and I'm disappointed that breastfeeding is getting in the way of that.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MeepyCat said:


> Okay, let's take you seriously for a minute. You found the sight of a college instructor breastfeeding during lecture distracting and detrimental to your education. Smart, pre-law kind of guy that you are, you are here to ask what to do about it.
> 
> My answers are:
> 1. Work on your spelling and grammar. I cannot tell you how valuable those skills will be in your current chosen profession, and in making effective complaints to the dean.
> ...


I do not believe you can advance an argument that you know which kind of baby my professor has either! So how do you even know the baby prefers breast to bottle?

I'm not asking her to avert feeding altogether. I am saying she should have taken appropriate measures to avoid breastfeeding in the middle of a lecture while she was teaching.

Also, I have taken great care to make sure that my spelling and grammar thus far has been flawless. It will have zero impact on how effectively I can articulate an argument to the dean because I plan on delivering oral argument; I am not submitting an essay or a brief.

Certainly, there may have been a typo here or there because I type very quickly (130+ wpm), but I have always received rave reviews for my writing style, grammar, and syntax. It's why I'm a straight A student. Before you criticize me, maybe you want to fix these sentences:

- Hungry babies frequently "fuss", by which we mean, they scream.

- I cannot tell you how valuable those skills will be in your current chosen profession, and in making effective complaints to the dean.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

I should also mention that I have spoken with my aunt, WT, who has a great deal of experience with these types of situations. She is a worldtraveler, and I would also describe her as something of a feminist, though she would never engage in the kind of behavior my professor did. 

Anyway, in her extensive travels, she has been to many countries that are more conservative than ours. Such cultures frown upon open breastfeeding as they find it to be very offensive and tantamount to indecent exposure, which is what I was trying to get at earlier. So perhaps white females have much more liberal views on breastfeeding in public, but I was raised in a strict Middle Eastern household where public breastfeeding was frowned upon. You can see, then, why I might be very uncomfortable around being forced to sit through a lecture where my teacher is engaging in that type of behavior and perhaps pushing her own agenda.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

Wow. Public breastfeeding is sexual harassment towards minors? Hashtag, you are now being ridiculous.

What kind of reception did you expect to get making these sorts of statements, especially on a forum like this? I suppose since, in your circles, people generally agree with you, you are shocked that not everyone feels the same way as you do about breastfeeding. Luckily for us moms, there are now laws that mostly protect us from harmful opinions like yours, or our lives and our ability to work and rear our children would be very impeded.

As for my last post, of course I was joking. What I was trying to point out was that the objections you have expressed here on this thread are very unlikely to have much traction with a university Dean. However, not all universities or states are the same, so I suppose you could try your luck. I would urge you, however, to blow it off. Don't make a hard-working woman and her newborn infant's lives more difficult--why would you want to?


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

If you commonly receive positive feedback on your spelling, grammar and style, and commonly write the way you do here, your instructors have misled you. A lawyer's value is his (or her) clarity of thought and argument, not typing skill. Slow down and do it right.

I did not advance an argument that I know what kind of baby your professor has. I would, however, be quite willing to argue that your professor knows her baby, and was probably doing her best to teach class as well as possible in trying circumstances. 

If you really want to make interesting waves, you could mention that the baby in class situation wasn't good for anyone, and ask what arrangements the school makes for backup childcare for employees.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MichelleZB said:


> Wow. Public breastfeeding is sexual harassment towards minors? Hashtag, you are now being ridiculous.
> 
> What kind of reception did you expect to get making these sorts of statements, especially on a forum like this? I suppose since, in your circles, people generally agree with you, you are shocked that not everyone feels the same way as you do about breastfeeding. Luckily for us moms, there are now laws that mostly protect us from harmful opinions like yours, or our lives and our ability to work and rear our children would be very impeded.
> 
> As for my last post, of course I was joking. What I was trying to point out was that the objections you have expressed here on this thread are very unlikely to have much traction with a university Dean. However, not all universities or states are the same, so I suppose you could try your luck. I would urge you, however, to blow it off. Don't make a hard-working woman and her newborn infant's lives more difficult--why would you want to?


I was thinking it could be sexual harassment because breasts are inherently sexual organs, so if they are exposed to minors, then that could qualify as sexual harassment.

I guess I didn't necessarily expect to get a positive reception, but I was hoping I would at least be pointed in the direction of actual state laws instead of empty drivel about how it is a fundamental right or something. Don't I also have a fundamental right to achieve as much as possible in a harassment-free environment as a student?

I don't want to make a newborn infant's life more difficult, but I would like to see the school implement some sort of policy to prevent future disasters like this. My school claims it is open to many cultures and students of many backgrounds. And, as I have said, many people other than myself took personal offense to my professor's open breastfeeding. I love my school, but what if news of this gets out and future students are discouraged from enrolling and choose other schools? I don't want this incident to have negative repercussions for myself in the short term or for future generations of students in the long term.

Frankly, I also think the classroom is an inappropriate forum for a feminist professor to advance her agenda and make a point about breastfeeding. If she feels so strongly about it, she should consider writing articles and taking interviews, not using us as pawns.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

There is a policy that would prevent "future disasters" like babies in class: backup childcare. Your university could invest in its employees and students by offering a high quality home- or center-based backup childcare option to employees. These programs are too expensive for individual families to implement for themselves, but they are economically feasible for large employers, like colleges and universities. If your professor had been able to call a sitter to her house, or drop her baby off at a licensed child care facility for a few hours, she probably wouldn't have been nursing a baby while cold-calling students. 

My husband worked for a few years for an employer who provided a backup childcare center through Bright Horizons. It was amazing. We never had to worry about snow, or sitters getting ill, or odd little daycare holidays. There was always a safe place to bring the children, and the kids loved it. 

I also know of some local services that will send sitters to homes (which is vital if a child is unwell), but the individual subscription fees are huge. They make more sense as employee benefits.

By the way, the laws you need to think about here are anti-discrimination statutes, like the ADA, and Title IX.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

HashtagBB said:


> I was thinking it could be sexual harassment because breasts are inherently sexual organs, so if they are exposed to minors, then that could qualify as sexual harassment.


It doesn't.



> I guess I didn't necessarily expect to get a positive reception, but I was hoping I would at least be pointed in the direction of actual state laws instead of empty drivel about how it is a fundamental right or something. Don't I also have a fundamental right to achieve as much as possible in a harassment-free environment as a student?


Yes, you do, but somebody breastfeeding in the same room as you is not considered harassment and could not be legally proved to be harassment in any state.

As for actual state laws, I said in an earlier post that you should say what state or province you were from and we could tell you the law! But here's a pretty good summary of state laws. Forty-six states have laws that allow women to breastfeed in *any* public or private location. Breastfeeding is explicitly exempt from public indecency laws in more than half of the states.



> I don't want to make a newborn infant's life more difficult, but I would like to see the school implement some sort of policy to prevent future disasters like this. My school claims it is open to many cultures and students of many backgrounds. And, as I have said, many people other than myself took personal offense to my professor's open breastfeeding. I love my school, but what if news of this gets out and future students are discouraged from enrolling and choose other schools. I don't want this incident to have negative repercussions for myself in the short term or for future generations of students in the long term.


This was not a disaster, and nothing in the world protects you from being offended by normal things people have a right to do.

I'm offended by most pop music, by people who have cash bars at their weddings, and by people who wear clip-on bow ties as opposed to tie-up bow ties, the only real kind of bow tie. Just because I am offended by those things, doesn't give me any legal power to stop those things happening around me, even in a class.

Your university likely _has_ a policy in place for these types of situations--and the policy likely protects your teacher from being harassed by you, not you from being exposed to her. If it does not have a policy to protect her, it will in the next few years.



> Frankly, I also think the classroom is an inappropriate forum for a feminist professor to advance her agenda and make a point about breastfeeding. If she feels so strongly about it, she should consider writing articles and taking interviews, not using us as pawns.


Her motives for doing something she has a perfect right to do is not your concern. Whether she was doing it to feed her baby, or to prove a point, or both, won't matter.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MichelleZB said:


> It doesn't.
> 
> Yes, you do, but somebody breastfeeding in the same room as you is not considered harassment and could not be legally proved to be harassment in any state.
> 
> ...


I go to school in New York, if that makes a difference.

I really don't think your "pop music" or "bow tie" examples are analogous because no one is forcing you to stay in those environments. This is different because it's essentially false imprisonment, as I've proved earlier, and I am faced with a Sophie's choice: either leave the classroom and risk lowering my GPA (thus ruining my future) or remain in an environment that makes me uncomfortable and even offended.

I don't see why you think I am harassing my teacher. I have yet to speak with her or with the dean, which is why I came here for advice first. However, I am disappointed to hear that I have no protection from being exposed to her on the grounds of indecent exposure or sexual harassment; I suppose my only avenue left is false imprisonment at this time.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

I am also curious as to why you think my university will implement a new policy to protect her in the next few years. Are we entering a more "pro-public-breastfeeding" phase now? I find that somewhat perplexing, given that it is violative of certain cultural norms and perhaps even offensive in situations like the classroom. 

Maybe it doesn't matter to you whether or not she was trying to push her feminist agenda on us and others, but it certainly matters to me. I pay tuition to attend a university where the professors conduct themselves in a professional manner and pride themselves in objectivity. She has no right to shove her twisted ideology down my throat, and I feel like I am being used so she can accomplish her goals. That's not right.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I agree with the PPs. And, speaking of multiculturalism, I don't think "breasts are sexual" is nearly as universal as you think. I know that for people (especially young people) in the US that breasts are super sexualized but that isn't the case for everywhere or for everyone. And, even if it were for a time in life it is often not the case for families with breastfeeding babies. Breasts take on a whole 'nother meaning and significance. This is where experience comes in. I know that the obvious thing here is that this professor is making a point by breastfeeding. That may be true but she may have normalized breastfeeding (like many of us do) to the point where this just doesn't seem like a big deal. 

P.s. also look into American University breastfeeding professor for a similar story. You will see that your stronger case is in your teacher bringing her child to class with her in the first place. Your school may go that route, as AU did. Or they may choose to support your teacher and place the responsibility for not being so distracted by breasts on you (where I do think it belongs).


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MeepyCat said:


> There is a policy that would prevent "future disasters" like babies in class: backup childcare. Your university could invest in its employees and students by offering a high quality home- or center-based backup childcare option to employees. These programs are too expensive for individual families to implement for themselves, but they are economically feasible for large employers, like colleges and universities. If your professor had been able to call a sitter to her house, or drop her baby off at a licensed child care facility for a few hours, she probably wouldn't have been nursing a baby while cold-calling students.
> 
> My husband worked for a few years for an employer who provided a backup childcare center through Bright Horizons. It was amazing. We never had to worry about snow, or sitters getting ill, or odd little daycare holidays. There was always a safe place to bring the children, and the kids loved it.
> 
> ...


I would be in favor of backup childcare to avert future disasters like the one I recently experienced, but I wonder how that would affect tuition? We already pay a lot for the privilege to attend school, and I certainly wouldn't want to be on the hook for having to pay even more money.

What does Title IX and the Anti-Discrimination Act have to do with all of this? I don't find it discriminatory to tell my professor that she should exercise better judgment and abstain from breastfeeding in a large lecture class.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

IdentityCrisisMama said:


> I agree with the PPs. And, speaking of multiculturalism, I don't think "breasts are sexual" is nearly as universal as you think. I know that for people (especially young people) in the US that breasts are super sexualized but that isn't the case for everywhere or for everyone. And, even if it were for a time in life it is often not the case for families with breastfeeding babies. Breasts take on a whole 'nother meaning and significance. This is where experience comes in. I know that the obvious thing here is that this professor is making a point by breastfeeding. That may be true but she may have normalized breastfeeding (like many of us do) to the point where this just doesn't seem like a big deal.
> 
> P.s. also look into American University breastfeeding professor for a similar story. You will see that your stronger case is in your teacher bringing her child to class with her in the first place. Your school may go that route, as AU did. Or they may choose to support your teacher and place the responsibility for not being so distracted by breasts on you (where I do think it belongs).


I'm a little wary of normalizing breastfeeding because it seems like a slippery slope. I mean, where do we draw the line? I think it could also lead to nudity and increased exposure of female body parts, which doesn't seem like such a great thing for society. For example, in Hollywood during the 1960s, films pushed the envelope by having characters wake up in bed together the next morning (while skipping the sex scenes), and that was a big deal at the time. But if you look at movies these days, characters have hardcore sex on film. I think breastfeeding opens the door to a similar trajectory for nudity and sexualization.

I just read the American University breastfeeding story, and it looks very similar to my case. My hope is that my school would at least go the AU route, which seems like a just outcome.

Placing the onus on me to not be "so distracted by breasts" seems to miss the point. I've just explained at great length why my teacher's breasts greatly distracted me and severely impeding my learning, and you're essentially saying, "well, don't be distracted." That's not particularly helpful.

How about this solution: Don't breastfeed in class to prove a point.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

New York Public Breastfeeding Law http://breastfeedinglaw.com/state-laws/new-york/

§ 79-e.* Right to breast feed. Notwithstanding any other provision of
law, a mother may breast feed her baby in any location, public or
private, where the mother is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of
whether or not the nipple of the mother's breast is covered during or
incidental to the breast feeding.*

--
§ 245.01 Exposure of a person.
A person is guilty of exposure if he appears in a public place in such
a manner that the private or intimate parts of his body are unclothed or
exposed. For purposes of this section, the private or intimate parts of
a female person shall include that portion of the breast which is below
the top of the areola. This section shall not apply to the breastfeeding
of infants or to any person entertaining or performing in a play,
exhibition, show or entertainment.

And if you want more here is a link to the Breastfeeding Bill of Rights from the NY Civil Liberties Union: http://www.nyclu.org/publications/your-breastfeeding-rights-new-york

Whether you like it or not she was well within her rights. This has been through the court systems before and there are no rights you have that supersede her rights to feed her child.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

crazyms said:


> New York Public Breastfeeding Law http://breastfeedinglaw.com/state-laws/new-york/
> 
> § 79-e.* Right to breast feed. Notwithstanding any other provision of
> law, a mother may breast feed her baby in any location, public or
> ...


Since this is a New York PUBLIC breastfeeding law, would it be applicable to a private university setting?

I hope my school has a policy that supersedes this law. And if it doesn't, maybe one should be made because I can't imagine that I'm the only one who has a problem with it.

It doesn't seem fair to value her desire to breastfeed in class, when she could easily do it somewhere else or step outside of the classroom (or reschedule the lecture), over my right to learn and receive a quality education.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

HashtagBB said:


> I guess I didn't necessarily expect to get a positive reception, but I was hoping I would at least be pointed in the direction of actual state laws instead of empty drivel about how it is a fundamental right or something.


The laws are generally worded that a mother is legally allowed to breastfeed wherever she and the baby are legally allowed to be. Other posters and I have posted this for you. I'm sure you can check your own state statutes as well as we can, possibly better since you may have access to a law library.

If the baby was *legally* allowed in the lecture hall, it was legal for the professor to breastfeed the baby. Having the child in class may possibly be against university policy, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't actually illegal.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

You wanted advice and opinions on the issue and you got them. This is a natural family living forum that supports mothers and breastfeeding. The responses you received were the opinions of the members here. If you'd like someone to tell you your opinion was right it won't likely happen on this forum.

Now for your issue:

If the issue is the child in the classroom: Yes most would agree that there could be better ways of providing child care and tending to family needs instead of having a child in the classroom during the lecture time. * If this is your problem then the question asked should be on daycare, parents rights & obligations as employees, and labor law issues with families NOT breastfeeding. 

If the issue is the child being fed in class: Not feeding the child is neglect. If there is no issue with the child being in class then there should be no issue with the child being fed.

If the issue is the breastfeeding: Too bad. If it's ok for the child to be in class and would be ok for the child to be given a bottle then there should be no issue with the mother breastfeeding.


Honestly there are a lot of things in life you'll have to deal with and be subjected to that you aren't going to like. This is a mild issue and is a good life experience for you to learn to cope with situations that you do not like. As for your choices, they may not have been great choices or choices that you liked but you DID have a choice: Stay in class and see her breastfeed OR leave class and risk the consequences of missing class. Not a great choice but that IS a choice. Unfortunately adults face choices like this on a regular basis. No one likes having to make choices like this but it is a fact of life and it's best that you figure that out sooner rather than later. When you get to the real world as an adult these choices become much more common for you.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

chickabiddy said:


> The laws are generally worded that a mother is legally allowed to breastfeed wherever she and the baby are legally allowed to be. Other posters and I have posted this for you. I'm sure you can check your own state statutes as well as we can, possibly better since you may have access to a law library.
> 
> If the baby was *legally* allowed in the lecture hall, it was legal for the professor to breastfeed the baby. Having the child in class may possibly be against university policy, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't actually illegal.


It's hard for me to believe that breastfeeding would be legal *everywhere* in the State of New York. What about public schools, for instance? 12th graders and below are legal required (false imprisonment) to attend school and are underaged (sexual harassment), so if a teacher felt like breastfeeding in front of them (indecent exposure), she could?

I find that behavior to be highly unprofessional, especially since students have no ability to leave the classroom to avoid putting themselves in such an uncomfortable (and, depending on the student, potentially offensive) environment.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

HashtagBB said:


> I think breastfeeding opens the door to a similar trajectory for nudity and sexualization.


I think the exact opposite is true. Seeing breasts as primarily sexual opens the door for objectification.

As for "don't be offended". I agree that this wasn't such a sympathetic thing to say but I do think there is a little too much responsibility being placed on others for your ability to pay attention. And, generally too much responsibility placed on women for men's ability to focus on other things.

In many American schools we have dress codes FOR WOMEN intended to help men pay better attention in school.

The reality is that it's a breast. Something that is meant to feed babies. In one way or another we are all victims of our own upbringing so I do not mean to belittle the significance of that but you are basically saying you are not able to concentrate if a women is using her breast the way nature intended. You are saying you need a woman to manage her body so that you can focus.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

crazyms said:


> You wanted advice and opinions on the issue and you got them. This is a natural family living forum that supports mothers and breastfeeding. The responses you received were the opinions of the members here. If you'd like someone to tell you your opinion was right it won't likely happen on this forum.
> 
> Now for your issue:
> 
> ...


Not feeding the child might be neglect, but the child could be fed before or after class. Alternatively, someone else could have fed the child. Or the professor could have stepped outside to feed the child. Or canceled class. She had plenty of options and instead chose to impose her agenda on all of us to prove a point.

I think using a bottle is a MUCH better solution because we could have avoided the discomfort of being around an exposed breast altogether. I routinely see bottles but only very rarely see breasts, and I am definitely not accustomed to seeing the breasts of middle-aged women. It makes me very uncomfortable.

Others are responding that I will grow out of this phase as I become more mature. While that might be true, you should keep in my mind that I am in a university setting, where most students fall into my age group. So they will have similar maturity levels and similar discomforts.

Finally, what you have described is basically a Sophie's choice. No college student should be forced to endure a moral dilemma of that magnitude.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

HashtagBB said:


> It's hard for me to believe that breastfeeding would be legal *everywhere* in the State of New York. What about public schools, for instance? 12th graders and below are legal required (false imprisonment) to attend school and are underaged (sexual harassment), so if a teacher felt like breastfeeding in front of them (indecent exposure), she could?


Yes, it's legal to breastfeed in a public school. I don't think public schoolteachers are allowed to bring their babies to class, but plenty of elementary school students have younger siblings and mothers can bring those siblings to school and breastfeed them if they so choose.

I think it's even legal for women to go topless in New York State, so it shouldn't matter if there's a baby attached to a legally exposed breast.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

chickabiddy said:


> I think it's even legal for women to go topless in New York State, so it shouldn't matter if there's a baby attached to a legally exposed breast.


Even a middle-aged breast? :mischief


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

HashtagBB said:


> Not feeding the child might be neglect, but the child could be fed before or after class. Alternatively, someone else could have fed the child. Or the professor could have stepped outside to feed the child. Or canceled class. She had plenty of options and instead chose to impose her agenda on all of us to prove a point.
> 
> I think using a bottle is a MUCH better solution because we could have avoided the discomfort of being around an exposed breast altogether. I routinely see bottles but only very rarely see breasts, and I am definitely not accustomed to seeing the breasts of middle-aged women. It makes me very uncomfortable.
> 
> ...


While you might not like having to "endure the moral dilemma of that magnitude" it happens regularly in the real world of adult life. Sorry dear but you'll need to adjust to that and learning how to do so over an issue this minor is an easy break into it. There will be much harder choices to make in life with much less desirable options no matter which way you did it. That's life. Many college students make these choices on a regular basis. *The vast majority of university students are also over the age of 18 and legally adults. So like previously said ADULTS make these decisions. It's better for college students to adjust to being adults instead of continuing to behave like children.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

IdentityCrisisMama said:


> I think the exact opposite is true. Seeing breasts as primarily sexual opens the door for objectification.
> 
> As for "don't be offended". I agree that this wasn't such a sympathetic thing to say but I do think there is a little too much responsibility being placed on others for your ability to pay attention. And, generally too much responsibility placed on women for men's ability to focus on other things.
> 
> ...


I actually found the opposite to be true regarding dress codes. In my high school, we had a formal dress code. While males wore jacket, shirt, and tie, my female classmates would often get away with short skirts and t-shirts (sometimes even tank tops!). I would be remiss to say that it wasn't slightly distracting (male hormones), but at the same time, I very much value my education and think I could have paid attention regardless of whether the girls where wearing turtlenecks or wifebeaters.

The reality is that we are all expected to dress conservatively to some degree or another. If not, we would be a colony of nudists. I am not trying to champion men's rights or anything along those lines, and I do not think it is unreasonable to kindly request that my professor take care of her business outside of the classroom. I don't see it as making her cater to the request of a sexist male, either, because as I said, many of my female classmates are in agreement with what I am saying.

My teacher's responsibility is to teach and impart knowledge upon all of us. If there is something getting in the way of that -- whether it is dim lighting, a fire in the classroom, or a bare breast being exposed through breastfeeding -- then I think I should be permitted to let the school know. And to ensure that the professor takes appropriate measures to rectify the situation. I have a duty to myself and to my colleagues. Otherwise, she is not fulfilling her vocational obligations.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Sincerely, I think you have a much stronger argument that the BABY was distracting, not the middle-aged breast.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

HashtagBB said:


> I really don't think your "pop music" or "bow tie" examples are analogous because no one is forcing you to stay in those environments. This is different because it's essentially false imprisonment, as I've proved earlier, and I am faced with a Sophie's choice: either leave the classroom and risk lowering my GPA (thus ruining my future) or remain in an environment that makes me uncomfortable and even offended...
> 
> ...However, I am disappointed to hear that I have no protection from being exposed to her on the grounds of indecent exposure or sexual harassment; I suppose my only avenue left is false imprisonment at this time.


You are not protected from being "exposed to her" because you don't need protection. Nobody does, because seeing a breastfeeding mother is harmless. The fact that you don't like it doesn't really matter; as I said, lots of people don't like lots of things they don't need protection from.

You're a long way from proving false imprisonment with that argument. You have argued that you are trapped against your will in a class--not physically trapped, but coerced by the university to watch disgusting acts because if you didn't, it would materially threaten your future career. But a university's attendance policies do not constitute coercion.



> Are we entering a more "pro-public-breastfeeding" phase now? I find that somewhat perplexing, given that it is violative of certain cultural norms and perhaps even offensive in situations like the classroom.


Certainly we are! Check those state laws. You will not find them to be on your side.



> Maybe it doesn't matter to you whether or not she was trying to push her feminist agenda on us and others, but it certainly matters to me. I pay tuition to attend a university where the professors conduct themselves in a professional manner and pride themselves in objectivity. She has no right to shove her twisted ideology down my throat, and I feel like I am being used so she can accomplish her goals. That's not right.


In a university setting, you are protected against violence and harassment, but you are not protected against seeing or hearing things that may disturb you because they happen to run contrary to your values. You have paid for a product (the classes), but if the classes are not to your liking, you are free to stop buying them in the future. By instituting inclusionary workplace practices (if indeed they have done this), your university is not demonstratively disrupting your reasonable enjoyment of their products.

It's not their fault you think your teacher is "twisted" for parenting in front of you. That's kind of your deal. Apparently you don't like her entire worldview (because she espouses feminism, and that is twisted, according to you), but you are being very entitled indeed if you expect to go to university and have every teacher agree with your viewpoint exactly and tell you only opinions you already hold. You actually attend university for the opposite reason--to be exposed to a broader world and a variety of viewpoints.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

HashtagBB said:


> No college student should be forced to endure a moral dilemma of that magnitude.


Wait. You are saying that you may have been forced to walk out of a college class in protest to stand up for a cause that you care deeply about? In COLLEGE? The horror!

Do it - walk out. Start a movement...stand up to this injustice.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

chickabiddy said:


> Yes, it's legal to breastfeed in a public school. I don't think public schoolteachers are allowed to bring their babies to class, but plenty of elementary school students have younger siblings and mothers can bring those siblings to school and breastfeed them if they so choose.
> 
> I think it's even legal for women to go topless in New York State, so it shouldn't matter if there's a baby attached to a legally exposed breast.


I have never seen a topless woman in New York, so I would be very surprised if that were true. Even if that were the case, I think there's a difference between walking around with legally exposed breasts in public and having a baby attached to those breasts in a location where young, impressionable individuals are forcibly detained.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

IdentityCrisisMama said:


> Wait. You are saying that you may have been forced to walk out of a college class in protest to stand up for a cause that you care deeply about? In COLLEGE? The horror!
> 
> Do it - walk out. Start a movement...stand up to this injustice.


This isn't the 1970s anymore&#8230; I can't just walk outside of class and stage a rebellion like some sort of savage.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

chickabiddy said:


> Sincerely, I think you have a much stronger argument that the BABY was distracting, not the middle-aged breast.


People of various cultures are offended by sexual organs, not by babies, which are natural. We are accustomed to seeing babies all around us, but there is a reason we cover up breasts and blur them out on tv and black them out in magazines.

As I said, I was raised in a conservative household where humility and decency were highly desirable qualities.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

HashtagBB said:


> I have never seen a topless woman in New York, so I would be very surprised if that were true. Even if that were the case, I think there's a difference between walking around with legally exposed breasts in public and having a baby attached to those breasts in a location where young, impressionable individuals are forcibly detained.


You were not forcibly detained. A somewhat weak argument could be made that you were *coerced* into remaining in the lecture hall, but you were clearly not forced. I'm on your side that the baby shouldn't have been there and therefore this shouldn't have been an issue, but your arguments are extreme and therefore easily dismissed.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MichelleZB said:


> You are not protected from being "exposed to her" because you don't need protection. Nobody does, because seeing a breastfeeding mother is harmless. The fact that you don't like it doesn't really matter; as I said, lots of people don't like lots of things they don't need protection from.
> 
> You're a long way from proving false imprisonment with that argument. You have argued that you are trapped against your will in a class--not physically trapped, but coerced by the university to watch disgusting acts because if you didn't, it would materially threaten your future career. But a university's attendance policies do not constitute coercion.
> 
> ...


I think I do need protection from such exposure. If that weren't the case, then why are there ratings on movies? As the mother of young children, you probably don't let your kids watch X-rated films, right? My parents were very strict about PG13 and rated R films for that exact reason.

You say I am free to stop buying the product (classes) in the future, but this isn't a choice wholly of my own volition. A college degree is a barrier to entry for many jobs these days (in many cases, it's even a master's degree or a PhD). Without that diploma, I wouldn't be able to accomplish my goals.

There are certain norms of decency we should expect our professors to abide by. For instance, I wouldn't want my teacher to use expletives in class. While dropping an f-bomb wouldn't be damaging to my edification in a strict sense, it would be damaging to the overall quality and repute of instruction at the university. I think the exposure of bare breasts is a similar issue.

I am not asking every professor to agree with what I have to say. I just think that this willfully political act materially affects my ability to thrive as a student. That's a problem.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

chickabiddy said:


> You were not forcibly detained. A somewhat weak argument could be made that you were *coerced* into remaining in the lecture hall, but you were clearly not forced. I'm on your side that the baby shouldn't have been there and therefore this shouldn't have been an issue, but your arguments are extreme and therefore easily dismissed.


What if I'm not talking about a college anymore? Public school students are *forced* to attend school until the age of 18. They shouldn't be subject to such extreme breastfeeding behavior if they find it offensive to their sensibilities.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

HashtagBB said:


> It's hard for me to believe that breastfeeding would be legal *everywhere* in the State of New York. What about public schools, for instance? 12th graders and below are legal required (false imprisonment) to attend school and are underaged (sexual harassment), so if a teacher felt like breastfeeding in front of them (indecent exposure), she could?
> 
> I find that behavior to be highly unprofessional, especially since students have no ability to leave the classroom to avoid putting themselves in such an uncomfortable (and, depending on the student, potentially offensive) environment.


Yes, believe it! _"N.Y. Penal Law § 245.01 et seq. excludes breastfeeding of infants from exposure offenses."_ A mother breastfeeding a child is exempt from being considered indecent exposure, and that includes exposure to minors. It is NOT considered sexually harassing a child if you show them a normal baby human eating the way they are intended to.

Actually, if you think about it, the baby itself is a minor and is exposed to breastfeeding repeatedly for years at fairly close range. :grin:

The fact that minors have to attend school or be otherwise educated is not false imprisonment. Some people argue that school detentions are, but that's sort of another thread.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MichelleZB said:


> Yes, believe it! _"N.Y. Penal Law § 245.01 et seq. excludes breastfeeding of infants from exposure offenses."_ A mother breastfeeding a child is exempt from being considered indecent exposure, and that includes exposure to minors. It is NOT considered sexually harassing a child if you show them a normal baby human eating the way they are intended to.
> 
> Actually, if you think about it, the baby itself is a minor and is exposed to breastfeeding repeatedly for years at fairly close range. :grin:
> 
> The fact that minors have to attend school or be otherwise educated is not false imprisonment. Some people argue that school detentions are, but that's sort of another thread.


I am not saying that minors attending school is false imprisonment. I am saying that minors being forced to watch their selfish teacher-mothers breastfeed constitutes false imprisonment because they lack a viable remedy. That would be the detention aspect in your scenario.

Also, yes, the baby itself is a minor and might be exposed to breastfeeding repeatedly -- but hopefully not for years because it will have teeth by then! However, the parent is the legal guardian/custodian of the child and may therefore benefit from the extra rights and privileges that accompany that role. For example, my professor can't legally send me to my room or ground me, while my parents can.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

You're pre-law. Seriously, go read some statutes. If you don't know what Title IX is, you're already behind. 

ADA stands for "Americans with Disabilities Act", and you should be embarrassed not to know that.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

HashtagBB said:


> What if I'm not talking about a college anymore? Public school students are *forced* to attend school until the age of 18. They shouldn't be subject to such extreme breastfeeding behavior if they find it offensive to their sensibilities.


Homeschooling is legal in New York and the other 49 states. If parents really don't want their kids exposed to legal breastfeeding in public places, they should keep their kids out of public places.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MeepyCat said:


> You're pre-law. Seriously, go read some statutes. If you don't know what Title IX is, you're already behind.
> 
> ADA stands for "Americans with Disabilities Act", and you should be embarrassed not to know that.


I thought the Anti-Discrimination Act would be more relevant since this seems to be an issue brought to light by my professor, a noted feminist.

How are Title IX and the Americans with Disabilities Act relevant. Also, I'm pretty sure in law school we learn about cooler stuff like international law anyway. Not boring Title IX cases.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

chickabiddy said:


> Homeschooling is legal in New York and the other 49 states. If parents really don't want their kids exposed to legal breastfeeding in public places, they should keep their kids out of public places.


This seems like a pretty Draconian option to me. "Sorry that your culture or religion forbids exposure to breasts." Or "sorry your parents frown upon your eight-year-old child seeing a breast at such a formative age. Just keep him at home if you're not happy with that policy."

That's not a viable alternative because (a) most parents really value their kid's education and in most instances public (or private) schooling is the best place for that, (b) it is important for children to socialize with their peer group (home schooled kids are freaks), and (c) most parents lack the teaching background to homeschool their children and even if they have such a background, they would need to forego salary and career opportunities to stay at home to homeschool.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

You're in college; you presumably know how to do research. What on earth made you think this was a good forum to post about how public breastfeeding is disgusting, children shouldn't breastfeed for "years" because of teeth, and homeschooled kids are freaks? Do you know where you are?


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

HashtagBB said:


> This seems like a pretty Draconian option to me. "Sorry that your culture or religion forbids exposure to breasts." Or "sorry your parents frown upon your eight-year-old child seeing a breast at such a formative age. Just keep him at home if you're not happy with that policy."
> 
> That's not a viable alternative because (a) most parents really value their kid's education and in most instances public (or private) schooling is the best place for that, (b) it is important for children to socialize with their peer group (home schooled kids are freaks), and (c) most parents lack the teaching background to homeschool their children and even if they have such a background, they would need to forego salary and career opportunities to stay at home to homeschool.


This is once again one of those times where adults make decisions that may not include an option they like but it is still a choice. Too bad.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

HashtagBB said:


> This isn't the 1970s anymore&#8230; I can't just walk outside of class and stage a rebellion like some sort of savage.


Yes you can. News flash: It wasn't any more okay in the 1970s or any other era to walk out of class and stage a rebellion than it is now. In order to make a difference in the world many activists and grassroots organizations make waves and risk consequences for making those waves to get their point across. You could have done the same if you felt so strongly. Would you have gotten a bad grade or even possibly flunked class or gotten behind on your graduation date for doing so? Maybe gotten arrested for activism or had some other legal repercussion? Sure it's possible but you would have made your point. If it's such a big deal to you then I suggest you try exactly that next time your teacher dares to do something as outrageous as feeding her baby in public. Don't sit around and take such behavior ... walk out of class and make a stir! It'll be an experience you'll never forget.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

Dude, forget law. You're going to suck at it. You're not even interested in the subject.

The Americans With Disabilities Act requires employers to make reasonable accommodation for employees' disabilities. There is no anti-discrimination act. Title IX is the key federal statute on gender-based discrimination. Law school is three years of detailed examination of statutes and case law. It will not all be thrilling. You may use quite specialized knowledge in professional practice, but you do not get to choose what's covered on the Bar exam. If you can't be bothered to do basic backup googling even for a late-night trolling spree, you're unlikely to ever be admitted anyway.

Also, what is WITH young people today? Have you no natural curiosity, no honest pride? Ten years ago, by God, you'd have come by with your citations in order and given us all a good time. Tedious airheads like you are giving your generation a bad name. I have two children of my own, and I'll die of shame if I don't raise them to do better trolling than this.

Take your toys and get offa the lawn.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

MeepyCat said:


> Dude, forget law. You're going to suck at it. You're not even interested in the subject.
> 
> The Americans With Disabilities Act requires employers to make reasonable accommodation for employees' disabilities. There is no anti-discrimination act. Title IX is the key federal statute on gender-based discrimination. Law school is three years of detailed examination of statutes and case law. It will not all be thrilling. You may use quite specialized knowledge in professional practice, but you do not get to choose what's covered on the Bar exam. If you can't be bothered to do basic backup googling even for a late-night trolling spree, you're unlikely to ever be admitted anyway.


Great advice here!

You are also not doing a good job at all at making your point. If you couldn't come up with a better argument as well as evidence to back up your opinion then you have for this conversation then you'll never win a law case. You should definitely find a different degree and career path.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

HashtagBB said:


> I have never seen a topless woman in New York, so I would be very surprised if that were true. Even if that were the case, I think there's a difference between walking around with legally exposed breasts in public and having a baby attached to those breasts in a location where young, impressionable individuals are forcibly detained.


It is legal for a woman to be topless non-commercially in my province of Ontario. A woman named Gwen Jacobs was convicted of indecency after going topless in 1996, but won her appeal. Subsequent cases have upheld that appeal, so it is pretty legal to walk around topless. That does not mean that women walk around topless all the time--just because you can, doesn't mean you have to, just that you can.

Here's an article about the legality of toplessness in New York: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-oconnell lcsw/the-right-to-bare-breasts_b_3831583.html



HashtagBB said:


> I think I do need protection from such exposure. If that weren't the case, then why are there ratings on movies? As the mother of young children, you probably don't let your kids watch X-rated films, right? My parents were very strict about PG13 and rated R films for that exact reason.


That's nice. But movie ratings are for your guidance, not for your protection. Movie theatres don't have to enforce ratings--if they felt like letting a teenager into an R-rated movie, they could, for instance. It is a voluntary system.

Actually, I don't censor what my child watches, but it's fine for parents to make rules about what their underage kids can watch. Parents don't get to make rules about whether their children are exposed to breastfeeding, though. If they don't like their kids seeing breastfeeding, or gay people getting married in a park, or bad weather, or anything totally legal they happen not to like, it's too damn bad.



> You say I am free to stop buying the product (classes) in the future, but this isn't a choice wholly of my own volition. A college degree is a barrier to entry for many jobs these days (in many cases, it's even a master's degree or a PhD). Without that diploma, I wouldn't be able to accomplish my goals.


You are not legally entitled to a job, and institutions are not legally required to help you achieve every goal you have. I know, it sucks.



> There are certain norms of decency we should expect our professors to abide by. For instance, I wouldn't want my teacher to use expletives in class. While dropping an f-bomb wouldn't be damaging to my edification in a strict sense, it would be damaging to the overall quality and repute of instruction at the university. I think the exposure of bare breasts is a similar issue.
> 
> I am not asking every professor to agree with what I have to say. I just think that this willfully political act materially affects my ability to thrive as a student. That's a problem.


Feeding a baby in public is just something any woman is allowed to do in your state when she and the baby wish. You keep asserting that your teacher is being "political" in doing it, but you're just making those motives up.

In fact, the nice thing about having a law protecting your right to breastfeed, is that you have the luxury of doing it when your baby is hungry without it being a huge political protest every time you latch them on. When I was in a coffee shop, and my son started to fuss and my milk started to let down for him, man was I ever glad that I could just feed him in peace without some random guy assuming I was making some political statement.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

crazyms said:


> Great advice here!
> 
> You are also not doing a good job at all at making your point. If you couldn't come up with a better argument as well as evidence to back up your opinion then you have for this conversation then you'll never win a law case. You should definitely find a different degree and career path.


I am going to get this site shut down when I become a lawyer. You'll see. I can't wait to win for intentional infliction of emotional distress (IIED), defamation of character, and libel. I will get an injunction a few years from now.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MeepyCat said:


> Dude, forget law. You're going to suck at it. You're not even interested in the subject.
> 
> The Americans With Disabilities Act requires employers to make reasonable accommodation for employees' disabilities. There is no anti-discrimination act. Title IX is the key federal statute on gender-based discrimination. Law school is three years of detailed examination of statutes and case law. It will not all be thrilling. You may use quite specialized knowledge in professional practice, but you do not get to choose what's covered on the Bar exam. If you can't be bothered to do basic backup googling even for a late-night trolling spree, you're unlikely to ever be admitted anyway.
> 
> ...


What citations do you want? I have a lot of natural curiosity, which is why I want to study international law. What you are saying to me right now is frankly kind of insulting. You know nothing about me, and you are making a bunch of assumptions. I do very well in school and have a lot of friends, so I'm definitely not an airhead.

I said that my professor breastfeeding her child in class was inappropriate and unprofessional. How is that a harbinger of my being a future crappy lawyer?


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

crazyms said:


> Yes you can. News flash: It wasn't any more okay in the 1970s or any other era to walk out of class and stage a rebellion than it is now. In order to make a difference in the world many activists and grassroots organizations make waves and risk consequences for making those waves to get their point across. You could have done the same if you felt so strongly. Would you have gotten a bad grade or even possibly flunked class or gotten behind on your graduation date for doing so? Maybe gotten arrested for activism or had some other legal repercussion? Sure it's possible but you would have made your point. If it's such a big deal to you then I suggest you try exactly that next time your teacher dares to do something as outrageous as feeding her baby in public. Don't sit around and take such behavior ... walk out of class and make a stir! It'll be an experience you'll never forget.


You missed my point. In the 1960s and 1970s, it was common for people to stage protests. We don't really do that anymore because we are in a different era and because of police brutality. Also, I don't want to go to jail -- or worse, get a B in a class and ruin my future.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

chickabiddy said:


> You're in college; you presumably know how to do research. What on earth made you think this was a good forum to post about how public breastfeeding is disgusting, children shouldn't breastfeed for "years" because of teeth, and homeschooled kids are freaks? Do you know where you are?


I don't expect you to agree with everything I'm saying. But one or two people did seem to think it was inappropriate to have an infant in a lecture class, so at least there are some who can see my perspective. Perhaps the dean will be similarly open-minded when I talk to him.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

You'll never be a lawyer because you didn't know what your state's indecency statutes are, and when a question came up concerning them, you couldn't be bothered to look them up yourself.

And you're spouting off boring ass crap comparing high school to false imprisonment. 

I'm so glad you have friends. Go play with them.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MeepyCat said:


> You'll never be a lawyer because you didn't know what your state's indecency statutes are, and when a question came up concerning them, you couldn't be bothered to look them up yourself.
> 
> And you're spouting off boring ass crap comparing high school to false imprisonment.
> 
> I'm so glad you have friends. Go play with them.


My state's indecency statutes are irrelevant because this is a PRIVATE university in a private classroom setting. And there's no case directly on point. I checked Westlaw Next and Lexis Advance.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

HashtagBB said:


> I don't expect you to agree with everything I'm saying. But one or two people did seem to think it was inappropriate to have an infant in a lecture class, so at least there are some who can see my perspective. Perhaps the dean will be similarly open-minded when I talk to him.


I am one of the people who agrees that the infant is inappropriate in class. I still think you need to do a better job of choosing your audience. NOBODY here will agree that seeing breastfeeding in action is traumatizing to a young adult.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

Oh my god, Hashtag, you're pre-law? Where is this? I totally missed that!

This thread has sort of become retroactively amazing, in a sort of ironic way. Like, you keep being all like, "What? This is a law in my state? I don't believe you waaaaaat how do I even look this up?"

Like, you actually asked me to find you laws about breastfeeding state-by-state, and I found them for you by googling "State Breastfeeding Laws". Your teacher was being all feministy and you didn't like that, so you literally went to a mom forum and had the moms google laws for you.

Dude.



HashtagBB said:


> Also, yes, the baby itself is a minor and might be exposed to breastfeeding repeatedly -- but hopefully not for years because it will have teeth by then!


Woah. OK, here is some Baby 101: babies begin getting their teeth anywhere between 6-12 months of age. Babies are very commonly still nursing at that point! In your state of New York, for instance, an incarcerated woman can bring her baby to jail with her to breastfeed him for one year (at which point the child will likely have most of his teeth).

The World Health Organization standard for breastfeeding is 2 years. I breastfed my son until he was 2 years and 7 months old. He for sure had a full set of teeth at that point.


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

HashtagBB said:


> I am going to get this site shut down when I become a lawyer. You'll see. I can't wait to win for intentional infliction of emotional distress (IIED), defamation of character, and libel. I will get an injunction a few years from now.


Omg, this is hilarious! !!
I think we've just scarred this poor kid for life! Now wait until he sues all MDC and we'll have to pay for his therapy!

I just browsed this thread, but I had to lol at the poor boy being FORCED to look at a BOOB - every young man's nightmare.
Methinks hashtag really needs to see more of those, not less.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

No young man on the internet should have to put up with mocking of this magnitude.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

Well you speak with your dean and see if he agrees with you. Maybe you'll get lucky and can have the teacher fired from the school because she had the nerve to breastfeed in class. Good luck. 

You make a point about the law being irrelevant because of it being a private university then you need to speak with the dean. A woman's right to breastfeed is protected anywhere she is legally allowed to be with her child. The private school can decide she can not legally have her baby at the school but they can not decide she can not legally breastfeed.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

HashtagBB said:


> You missed my point. In the 1960s and 1970s, it was common for people to stage protests. We don't really do that anymore because we are in a different era and because of police brutality. Also, I don't want to go to jail -- or worse, get a B in a class and ruin my future.


Yet another example of being able to make a choice. You made the choice not to leave class. That was your choice now you get to live with the consequences of that choice which in this instance happened to be seeing a baby nurse.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

crazyms said:


> Well you speak with your dean and see if he agrees with you. Maybe you'll get lucky and can have the teacher fired from the school because she had the nerve to breastfeed in class. Good luck.
> 
> You make a point about the law being irrelevant because of it being a private university then you need to speak with the dean. A woman's right to breastfeed is protected anywhere she is legally allowed to be with her child. The private school can decide she can not legally have her baby at the school but they can not decide she can not legally breastfeed.


I've said this before, but I don't want her fired! I just don't want to have to sit through another lecture where she is breastfeeding. It inhibits my ability to learn. As others have not-so-kindly pointed out, I have a lot of learning left to do, so every minute of productive classroom time is very precious to me.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MichelleZB said:


> No young man on the internet should have to put up with mocking of this magnitude.


Where was I mocked? You and I just happen to disagree on a fundamental issue, but I hardly think you "won." Hopefully you don't teach your children to gloat like you do and be prideful about non-victories on the internet.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

Nightwish said:


> Omg, this is hilarious! !!
> I think we've just scarred this poor kid for life! Now wait until he sues all MDC and we'll have to pay for his therapy!
> 
> I just browsed this thread, but I had to lol at the poor boy being FORCED to look at a BOOB - every young man's nightmare.
> Methinks hashtag really needs to see more of those, not less.


This may be news to you, but my family is very conservative. I don't see why you need to put down my culture and how I was raised. That's a huge problem I have with feminists: they like to impose their western hegemony on the rest of the world, with little regard for context, culture, or religion. It's truly appalling.

If I told my grandparents that I saw a middle-aged woman's "boob" in class, they would be mortified. And I believe the accepted vernacular is "breasts."


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

MichelleZB said:


> Oh my god, Hashtag, you're pre-law? Where is this? I totally missed that!
> 
> This thread has sort of become retroactively amazing, in a sort of ironic way. Like, you keep being all like, "What? This is a law in my state? I don't believe you waaaaaat how do I even look this up?"
> 
> ...


I didn't know that since I'm not an expert in teething or Baby 101 generally. I just figured it would be very uncomfortable to breastfeed a child with teeth. And there's definitely an age at which doing so is no longer appropriate. For example, you wouldn't want to breastfeed your son if he were 4 or 5 years old. People would give you funny looks!

Btw, good job drinking wine while breastfeeding your child. You seem like a really responsible mother with your drunk baby.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

For the record, I'm not trying to take this to the United States Supreme Court. Yet. 

So I don't get how this has anything to do with me being a bad lawyer or trying to win my "case." The laws of the State of New York aren't even applicable because this is a private university matter in a private setting, so the dean and school policies have jurisdiction.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

HashtagBB said:


> If I told my grandparents that I saw a middle-aged woman's "boob" in class, they would be mortified. And I believe the accepted vernacular is "breasts."


Your grandparents are likely familiar with middle-aged breasts. They would probably not be mortified, which means extremely embarrassed.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

chickabiddy said:


> Your grandparents are likely familiar with middle-aged breasts. They would probably not be mortified, which means extremely embarrassed.


Or ashamed. They are very conservative and wouldn't believe that this kind of practice was taking place in a school setting.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

HashtagBB said:


> Or ashamed. They are very conservative and wouldn't believe that this kind of practice was taking place in a school setting.


What kind of practice? I'm sure that your grandmother would be highly offended that a mother was allowed to feed her baby in front of adults in a university setting. Oh the nerve!


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

HashtagBB said:


> Or ashamed. They are very conservative and wouldn't believe that this kind of practice was taking place in a school setting.


I believe they might be upset. They raised you and passed down their beliefs. I just don't believe that a woman who has breastfed would be embarrassed by seeing another woman doing the same.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

HashtagBB said:


> For the record, I'm not trying to take this to the United States Supreme Court. Yet.
> 
> So I don't get how this has anything to do with me being a bad lawyer or trying to win my "case." The laws of the State of New York aren't even applicable because this is a private university matter in a private setting, so the dean and school policies have jurisdiction.


Actually the law does apply because it covers the mother in any location, public or private, where she has a right to be. She has a right to be there and so does the baby unless there is a policy against it.

I doubt you'll ever try to challenge these laws in any court because you are going to do a lot of maturing before getting a law degree. When you are young and have no children complicated issues, such as parenting and nursing a child, seem very easy but you will discover that they aren't as you grow up and research these things for yourself.

As an aside: Being conservative has nothing to do with nursing in public. I was raised in very conservative churches, in one women weren't allowed to wear pants, but breastfeeding was still the norm and it wasn't considered immodest. As a mother who has had a child and nursed I think it sounds very immoral to sexualize nursing a child and I believe that is something you should talk with your pastor about to get some guidance.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

HashtagBB said:


> This may be news to you, but my family is very conservative. I don't see why you need to put down my culture and how I was raised. That's a huge problem I have with feminists: they like to impose their western hegemony on the rest of the world, with little regard for context, culture, or religion. It's truly appalling.


Earlier in the thread you mentioned that you valued your aunt's views because she traveled and had been to the Middle East. I've also traveled there and have tremendous respect for the people from that part of the world.

This is not about disrespect for your values.

This is about living in a multicultural world and you asking for your professor to adapt her behavior (which is fundamentally human) because of your values. It is you doing the imposing.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

IdentityCrisisMama said:


> Earlier in the thread you mentioned that you valued your aunt's views because she traveled and had been to the Middle East. I've also traveled there and have tremendous respect for the people from that part of the world.
> 
> This is not about disrespect for your values.
> 
> This is about living in a multicultural world and you asking for your professor to adapt her behavior (which is fundamentally human) because of your values. It is you doing the imposing.


Getting dressed and changing a diaper is also "fundamentally human," but I wouldn't expect my teacher to do either of those things in class (especially the nudity part). I'm not imposing anything on her by requesting that she exercise other options or make other plans, such as taking a break from lecture to breastfeed, postponing the class, getting it done before or after class, or having someone else look after the kid.

There's clearly a difference between breastfeeding at home, taking a child to class, and openly breastfeeding in class. Maybe if you weren't so biased and pro-breastfeeding you could see that.

It's like when feminists decry the practices of other countries without understanding that their are cultural differences. That's proliferating western hegemony.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

One_Girl said:


> Actually the law does apply because it covers the mother in any location, public or private, where she has a right to be. She has a right to be there and so does the baby unless there is a policy against it.
> 
> I doubt you'll ever try to challenge these laws in any court because you are going to do a lot of maturing before getting a law degree. When you are young and have no children complicated issues, such as parenting and nursing a child, seem very easy but you will discover that they aren't as you grow up and research these things for yourself.
> 
> As an aside: Being conservative has nothing to do with nursing in public. I was raised in very conservative churches, in one women weren't allowed to wear pants, but breastfeeding was still the norm and it wasn't considered immodest. As a mother who has had a child and nursed I think it sounds very immoral to sexualize nursing a child and I believe that is something you should talk with your pastor about to get some guidance.


I definitely don't want to be immoral or commit sins over this situation. I think that breasts themselves are regarded as inherently sexual body parts, which is why they're blurred out on tv and in magazines.


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## HashtagBB (Jul 21, 2014)

chickabiddy said:


> I believe they might be upset. They raised you and passed down their beliefs. I just don't believe that a woman who has breastfed would be embarrassed by seeing another woman doing the same.


Again, I think there's a key difference between breastfeeding in the privacy of one's home, which is what my parents did, and breastfeeding in public. But at least in public, people who are uncomfortable have the option of walking away. Breastfeeding in a college -- or even worse, a public school -- is a different story altogether because it is not conducive to a professional, classroom atmosphere. It is inappropriate, unprofessional, and offensive.

These negative qualities are compounded further when you have a raging feminist professor who will stop at nothing to shove her ideology down your throat, even if it comes at the expense of your comfort and college experience.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Your use of the label feminist clearly shows a lack of understanding about the feminist movement. Traditionaly they are opposed to breastfeeding because it is an act that embraces being forced into the oppressive role of being a stay at home mother.

Even if your teacher is pushing feminist ideas, educating students in a way that makes them question their beliefs and come up with stronger reasons to follow them than "that's what mommy and daddy taught me" is part of what going to college is all about. It is your teachers job to teach you things that provoke thought and force you to research and defend your ideas. It's your university's job to offer teachers with a wide range of ideas to challenge you into being a well rounded adult capable of defending your beliefs in high level jobs that require critical thinking. If you can't accept that you need to rethink college and your career choices.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

HashtagBB said:


> Again, I think there's a key difference between breastfeeding in the privacy of one's home, which is what my parents did, and breastfeeding in public. But at least in public, people who are uncomfortable have the option of walking away. Breastfeeding in a college -- or even worse, a public school -- is a different story altogether because it is not conducive to a professional, classroom atmosphere. It is inappropriate, unprofessional, and offensive.
> 
> These negative qualities are compounded further when you have a raging feminist professor who will stop at nothing to shove her ideology down your throat, even if it comes at the expense of your comfort and college experience.


Okay see now you have made your point perfectly clear and we can understand better. I see it. I get it now. It would be perfectly okay for her to breastfeed at home as long as no one inside her home cared. It is just wrong for her to breastfeed in front of you because it is offensive to you. It is also wrong because her believing that breastfeeding is best for her baby and then deciding to breastfeed in front of you is forcing her ideals on you and causes you discomfort. You're absolutely right... that should never happen! You should never be uncomfortable, offended or confronted with someone else's values and opinions in life. Such horror!

I should also never have to be offended again. Things that will soon be illegal so that I am never again offended: sagging pants, formula feeding just to make others happy, rap music, disposable items (plates, cups, etc.), plastic bags...

I'm sure I'll come up with more. Let me adjust to the idea of never having to be offended again and I'll surely think of more awful, horrible things in life.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

HashtagBB said:


> I'm not imposing anything on her by requesting that she exercise other options or make other plans...


Yes, indeed, you are! You are requesting that she change what she is doing to line up with your values. You are the imposer. You are trying to get her to live her life according to your rules, just because you like your rules and you think everyone should follow them--after all, they come from your culture, and everyone should live according to your culture's rules or else they are OPPRESSING YOU AND YOUR HERITAGE.

Sorry, it doesn't work like that. You are not the victim of this teacher.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

HashtagBB said:


> I'm not imposing anything on her by requesting that she exercise other options or make other plans, such as taking a break from lecture to breastfeed, postponing the class, getting it done before or after class, or having someone else look after the kid.


Exactly. You would like your professor to exercise other options out of respect for your values. I understand you are focused on the power dynamic between your and your professor (grades, cost of classes, you contributing her her salary) but this is a common issue for nursing mothers - people deciding that their values and comfort for not having to see part of a breast is more important than her values about feeding and caring for her child.

The reality is that our values can and should really only guide us - they really can not be used to influence others.

You live in New York - that's like the melting pot of the melting pot. You are a conservative and should have every right to live your own life according to your values. Wear what you want, feed your kids how you want. Your teacher can do the same -- that's sort of the beauty of it all.

Like a few others, if this issue was about the professional choice to bring the kid to school, that's a whole other conversation but it's pretty clear that the main issue was the breasts and, seriously, if you are getting around campus I'm sure you've seen plenty - though in the case of cleavage, many men and women feel that those are breasts being used in the appropriate way.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

HashtagBB said:


> How is she protected by law? I'm pretty sure there's no law that says you can just openly show your breasts in a public space. That has to be indecent exposure or something. It's a shame that she's using her child like that to get attention. She could easily just use a bottle.


Ok, so I only got through the first page and then got bored, but A) you're a pretty poor law student if you don't know the BF laws, B) NIP is not an attention-seeking behavior, and C) no, she could not easily just use a bottle.



HashtagBB said:


> Ok but even if it isn't indecent exposure, I can't find any law that supports it. And from googling, it looks like I'm not the only one who is uncomfortable around these kinds of situation.
> 
> Who knew mothers could be so insensitive to the feelings of others?


If you can't find the law, keep looking. Ask your teacher for help if you still can't find it. :lol

Oh, and your feelings don't matter. Babies have to eat.



HashtagBB said:


> What about if a professor brings her child to class and breastfeeds and basically forces all the students attending to stay and watch? That has to be like false imprisonment or something.


"That has to be like false imprisonment or something." Seriously?! :rotflmao


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

HashtagBB said:


> I didn't know that since I'm not an expert in teething or Baby 101 generally.


That is evident.



> I just figured it would be very uncomfortable to breastfeed a child with teeth.


It is not.



> And there's definitely an age at which doing so is no longer appropriate.


... and I bet you think you're the most qualified person to come up with an appropriate cut off age, even though you just said two sentences ago that you know very little about babies and infant feeding!



> For example, you wouldn't want to breastfeed your son if he were 4 or 5 years old. People would give you funny looks!


It is not a good idea to decide whether to do something or not based on whether you will get funny looks.



> Btw, good job drinking wine while breastfeeding your child. You seem like a really responsible mother with your drunk baby.


It's obvious you feel attacked and are trying to take a cheap shot about my drinking to assuage your feelings, but your information is inaccurate. Drinking moderately while breastfeeding doesn't get the baby drunk. Just like you know very little about teething, you also know very little about breastfeeding.

I am both a responsible drinker and a responsible parent. Of course, if I weren't, it still wouldn't make you right about your teacher.


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## OrmEmbar (Oct 25, 2012)

To the OP: I'm sorry you are just now being exposed to something as normal and mundane as an infant eating. Most people have younger siblings or have been around families enough by the time they are in college to realize that there is nothing indecent about seeing a bit (or even a lot) of breast while a baby is eating. 
If you really are a law student and uncomfortable about babies being fed, I highly recommend going to a local La Leche League meeting. You will learn about breast feeding laws and get a lot of practice becoming more comfortable with seeing babies eating. You will also learn how breast feeding is often very challenging and that moms and babies need all the support they can get. 
I sincerely hope you will follow up on your research with a mind open in the ways of inquiry, not just looking for fuel to feed your point of view. 
I'm very sorry you were uncomfortable. It is unfortunate that you took the viewpoint of assuming your teacher was trying to get attention. I bet you could ask her if this is the case.


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## OrmEmbar (Oct 25, 2012)

Oh wow, I'm still getting used to the new format and posted before I saw there are 5 pages in this thread!
Now I am alternating between ROTFLOL and wanting to give this student and his class mates a few educational lectures. I love the varied responses - our diversity makes this site awesome. Interesting how such a diverse group of moms can agree on one thing: breasts are not sexual when being used for feeding a baby.  @HashtagBB, I recommend re-reading One_Girl's posts.


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## AMZB (Jul 22, 2014)

*Lolz*

I stopped by this thread at someone's recommendation. I want to thank you, Hashtag, for this hilarious thread. I haven't laughed so hard in weeks! Good trolling, would read again.

As an actual law student, I can assure you that your comments on the law are hilariously incoherent. For instance, if breasts are "inherently sexual," then mothers are sexually abusing their babies when they breastfeed. This is obviously not true - whether a particular act is sexual or not depends on the context. You'll find, if you do go to law school, that nearly everything is contextual and needs to be considered in the totality of the circumstances. Very rarely is anything inherently this or inherently that.

As for false imprisonment, as any introductory torts textbook can tell you, this situation does not even come close to satisfying the elements of false imprisonment. I would suggest you look things up before declaring them to be legal facts on the internet. Looking things up is a very good practice if you do intend to become a lawyer, because in the future you may be held liable if you give people incorrect legal advice and they rely on it to their detriment.

As for your assertion that state laws do not apply on private property, try committing murder in your basement and let us know how that defence works out for you.

PS: In law school you will cover very little international law, and quite a lot of "boring" domestic law. If this does not appeal to you, you may want to consider other career options.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

AMZB said:


> I stopped by this thread at someone's recommendation. I want to thank you, Hashtag, for this hilarious thread. I haven't laughed so hard in weeks! Good trolling, would read again.
> 
> As an actual law student, I can assure you that your comments on the law are hilariously incoherent. For instance, if breasts are "inherently sexual," then mothers are sexually abusing their babies when they breastfeed. This is obviously not true â€" whether a particular act is sexual or not depends on the context. You'll find, if you do go to law school, that nearly everything is contextual and needs to be considered in the totality of the circumstances. Very rarely is anything inherently this or inherently that.
> 
> ...


:clap Beautiful post! Just beautiful!


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## roboneill02 (Jun 19, 2014)

You know what, if you are in the same situation with your teacher you will definitely understand her. Yeah, it's not appropriate but you have to understand that the baby is hungry. Would you let your teacher feed her baby inside the class or you want a crying hungry baby in your classroom? I think it would be very annoying if you will hear/see a crying baby due to hungriness. It's not about your discomfort or your classmates discomfort, it's about the baby. Your teacher had no choice but to breastfeed in public.


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

HashtagBB said:


> This may be news to you, but my family is very conservative. I don't see why you need to put down my culture and how I was raised. That's a huge problem I have with feminists: they like to impose their western hegemony on the rest of the world, with little regard for context, culture, or religion. It's truly appalling.
> 
> If I told my grandparents that I saw a middle-aged woman's "boob" in class, they would be mortified. And I believe the accepted vernacular is "breasts."


I doubt you have the slightest clue about your culture. My godson's mother is African, and he was breasfed until he was a preschooler. Most of my colleagues at work are Muslims, and although they are very modest, they wouldn't flinch at the sight of a mother feeding her child.
I myself am not American. I'm an immigrant.
So maybe you should mention to your grandpa that you saw a woman breastfeeding. He could teach you a thing or two about normalcy in HIS culture. And you won't panic so much when you have your first child. Or your first girlfriend, for that matter.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

amzb said:


> as for your assertion that state laws do not apply on private property, try committing murder in your basement and let us know how that defence works out for you.


lol


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## farmermomma (Oct 30, 2012)

Heck no it's not appropriate for her to have to be there with a baby. Where is her paid maternity leave? That's something worth fighting for.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

farmermomma said:


> Heck no it's not appropriate for her to have to be there with a baby. Where is her paid maternity leave? That's something worth fighting for.


It was likely a child care crisis.

OP, you could have gone out to the restroom and then grabbed a seat in the back. Or just left. In a lecture hall filled with hundreds of students, it's not likely that you would be missed.


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## Tiffa (Mar 24, 2013)

I haven't read ALL of the responses on here, but it seems like everyone echos what I myself was thinking, and what I would think you should EXPECT to hear on a natural mothering forum. Also, I don't necessarily think that anyone on here means to be hostile. I think they are trying to help you understand, because you obviously do not..

As a breastfeeding mother I can tell you that, sure, it *sounds* easy to just breastfeed somewhere else, or pack a bottle around. But from experience it's not. You have to pump, you have to store and carry milk with you. You have to go through a hassle to prepare the bottle when your hungry baby is waiting. And you have to throw out wasted milk, which is discouraging. And I actually HAVE hidden myself in a dressing room as a young mother to feed my baby, and felt more awkward than ever. It felt degrading and shaming, when I shouldn't be ashamed to feed my hungry baby. It not about boobs! It's about just feeding your baby. What is easy is having it right there at the breast. Ready to go, just the way your baby likes it. Or how about you turning your head or just reading a book for the 10-20 minutes it took her to feed her baby. How's that for easy?

Yes I probably would not have fed my baby in a classroom full of students watching, because I would be uncomfortable with thinking everyone was judging me. AS you all were judging her. SEEING another woman breastfeeding doesn't make me uncomfortable, it makes me feel relieved that I am not the only one out there. I think it's encouraging and wonderful, and I applaud that they are more brave than I am. Before becoming a mother I may have felt uncomfortable as you do, but I think I still would have said "good for her for not caring what I or anyone else think, and doing what's best for her child." 

I am kind of wondering. Not that it's really relevant. But how much breast was she actually showing? Because even without a cover or cloth I can nurse so discretely that no one knows I am even doing it, and NO breast is shown. So if that's the case here, then the issue you and your classmates have isn't even indecent exposure. It's just you being uncomfortable with the idea of breastfeeding. And that's totally unfair to mothers everywhere. 
As others have said; in the end, the law supports her, so if you are uncomfortable you need to get over it. Or maybe politely mention it to her, instead of going behind her back to the dean.

Oh and p.s. I am a very conservative, modest Christian. I don't even wear tank tops in public. But I have sense enough to know that breastfeeding does NOT count as immodesty. And I think it's perfectly appropriate and good to expose everyone of all ages and genders and "cultures" to breastfeeding. It would make the world a better place. And that's not exaggerating one bit.


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## farmermomma (Oct 30, 2012)

Just to clarify:



farmermomma said:


> Heck no it's not appropriate for her to HAVE TO be there with a baby. Where is her paid maternity leave? That's something worth fighting for.


Also I liked that backup child care plan!


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## OrmEmbar (Oct 25, 2012)

I fear we have lost our OP, but this is a great thread anyway! And this post is so beautiful that I think the last part needs to be repeated. Thanks for writing this so well!



Tiffa said:


> Oh and p.s. I am a very conservative, modest Christian. I don't even wear tank tops in public. But I have sense enough to know that breastfeeding does NOT count as immodesty. And I think it's perfectly appropriate and good to expose everyone of all ages and genders and "cultures" to breastfeeding. It would make the world a better place. And that's not exaggerating one bit.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I think this post is a joke of some kind. I cant imagine a woman who has gone through the learning curve of learning to breastfeed her child, and all it entails when balancing work and mothering, to have such a blase opinion about a working woman breastfeeding her child in public. Whats to complain about?


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## BF#3 (Jul 31, 2014)

HashtagBB said:


> This seems like the author might be joking. No kidding you shouldn't breastfeed in traffic! Because it's dangerous, you might get run over, and you don't want other drivers to see your breasts like that in public when you're in the middle of the road.


I agree with you on breastfeeding during class with her being a teacher. She should've excused herself and went in the hallway or another room as to not be a distraction in class. I'm a Breastfeeding mom and I will bf in public but not in front of an audience. I cant feed my baby comfortably if I'm fighting off glares and whispers. But dont tell the dean. Resolve it with ger and if no change tgen u have a right to be uncomfortable but not sure it will work in your favor.


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## sillysapling (Mar 24, 2013)

When I was homeschooled, I was in a mock trial group and the woman who ran it would breastfeed her child while running the group. It was a non-issue and didn't make anyone uncomfortable. 

The OP's biggest problem seems to be not having previously been exposed to breastfeeding, which is exactly why nursing in public should be allowed- because it's a natural act, there's nothing wrong with people of any age seeing it. It's something that should be a total non-issue, something that doesn't even warrant a second glance because it's such an every day occurance. A pre-law student should certainly have the maturity to handle watching a person feeding their child.


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## salr (Apr 14, 2008)

I admit to at first being offended by the phrase "feminist shrew," but after reading this whole thread...yes this is one of the best threads I've ever seen on mdc and I hope it stays _exactly_ as it is. Lol.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

salr said:


> I admit to at first being offended by the phrase "feminist shrew," but after reading this whole thread...yes this is one of the best threads I've ever seen on mdc and I hope it stays _exactly_ as it is. Lol.


I LOVE that your post is #148 of 147.


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## Jaxy (Oct 3, 2012)

I've got to get something straight here : breast were made for nurturing, NOT sexual pleasure. If you were a breastfeeding mother, you would find out that the only reason God gave you those breasts was to feed children.

Now, I've been thinking about being a tour guide, then about being pregnant while being a guide, and breastfeeding while doing those tours... I see that it might not go as smoothly as I thought  Luckily I'm not too self-conscious..!


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/upshot/how-paid-leave-helps-female-employees-stay-.html?_r=1


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## sillysapling (Mar 24, 2013)

Breasts were made for _both_. Many people get sexual pleasure from their breasts, in addition to using htem to nurture their children. It's perfectly valid to see any part of your own body as sexual. However, _men_ also get sexual pleasure from _their_ nipples and can see them as sexual as well, yet they're allowed to flaunt them in a lot of places- breasts being sexual is no reason to force women to cover up or shame people for trying to feed their babies.


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## OrmEmbar (Oct 25, 2012)

I love this thread. It just keeps getting better and better.
Sillysapling, thanks for the reminder and perspective.


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## OklaFarmMama (Aug 31, 2013)

I have three thoughts on this.

1. I hope the OP gets exposed to lots and lots of public breastfeedings!

2. You mamas gave some awesome responses.

3. I'd really like to meet this teacher and shake her hand.

Okay let's make it 4. As far as children being distractions, the world is full of them in all settings, they can be found even in the most tranquil environments. So don't blame the innocent for your lack of focus. And I'm not just talking to the OP here.


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## [email protected] (May 31, 2004)

*Is it appropriate for a techer to breastfeed while at school?*

We seem to have limited information on the issue and it would not be proper to take extreme positions. We don't know what the age group of the children who watched the teacher-mom was, how did they take it, whether the teacher was in a haste or the baby too desperate, whether the school had any room or enclosure nearby where the teacher could nurse the baby, whether anyone else was also so affected as "Hashtag", etc.? Three weeks have passed since the incident and what good purpose would now be served by Hashtag to now report it to the Dean? Her "research" seems to have created much interest here though.
At any rate, if there was a better alternative, the teacher could be so advised if she really does not bother about privacy in such matters, that is. Personally, I would not have minded the incident and even feel happy that there are such brave women who care for the need of the baby more. Stop. Believe me, most of the children who watched the scene would have taken it more generously as they realize the need of the baby.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> We seem to have limited information on the issue and it would not be proper to take extreme positions. We don't know what the age group of the children who watched the teacher-mom was, how did they take it, whether the teacher was in a haste or the baby too desperate, whether the school had any room or enclosure nearby where the teacher could nurse the baby, whether anyone else was also so affected as "Hashtag", etc.? Three weeks have passed since the incident and what good purpose would now be served by Hashtag to now report it to the Dean? Her "research" seems to have created much interest here though.
> At any rate, if there was a better alternative, the teacher could be so advised if she really does not bother about privacy in such matters, that is. Personally, I would not have minded the incident and even feel happy that there are such brave women who care for the need of the baby more. Stop. Believe me, most of the children who watched the scene would have taken it more generously as they realize the need of the baby.


I'm pretty sure it was college level and Hashtag was a guy. If any of this actually happened.


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## sageowl (Nov 16, 2010)

If this is even a real question, what I have to ask is why, if you are so very concerned, are you asking a whole bunch of strangers for advice, and not just talking to the person in question?

Seems a lot simpler to me.

This might end up being your most memorable course yet!


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