# I'm losing faith in cosleeping and nursing on demand



## Orion'smommy (Jan 31, 2006)

For the past 8 months my DS has been waking up AT LEAST 6 times a night to nurse. Up until yesterday I have tried not to mind it, but I am getting a little bitter at the situation.

I have to sleep on my side with my arm propped up around him which hurts. I go to the chiropractor weekly to counteract this pain.

He grabs my face and pulls my skin and I have had bad blemishes now for 6 months on my chin because of this.

And, I'm tired.

I do not understand why I have done everything "right" (co sleep, breastfeed, AP, etc) and my 15 month old cannot sleep for AN HOUR during the night.

I am starting to loose my temper with him during the last four wakeups. I tried to get up and rock him to sleep and he screamed the entire 4 minutes. I could not take it anymore so I once again, nursed him.

DH says, "He's out of control." Unfortunately, I think I agree.


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## Mamma Mia (Aug 3, 2005)

My two ideas for why this may be happening:

food allergies
teething

Could be both. There is probably something going on, but I don't think cosleeping and nursing on cue are to blame.

While you figure out what is going on (I know the mamas here will have some great ideas) and figure out what you can do, please know that you are giving him much needed security during this time. It won't last forever and he will have a much more solid grounding than he would otherwise. If it's food allergies it may take a little while to figure it out.

I also know a mamma who's ds was almost exactly as you describe and he turned out to be very academically gifted. I think one of the reasons he was so high needs is because his brain and body were just constantly on overdrive.

Big hugs to you while you figure this out!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

My ds is 26 months old and he still wakes that much *sigh* last night was a good night he only woke 4-5 times to nurse. I have tried to night wean with no success as of yet. If I dont give in he will scream till he gets a tummy ach then he is so woke up I am up the rest of the night







I have tried things that worked with dd but they dont for him.

I wish I had some advice for you but nothing has worked for me so far. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone.

As for the holding him on your arm all night I would work on stopping that. Gently ease him off you as soon as you can eventually he will get the idea. I had that problem with dd so with ds I never started. He nurses with his head flat on the mattress and when I unlatch him I roll over. I try my best to not touch him in any way at night unless he just needs me to.


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## melanie83103 (Jun 23, 2006)

I'm sorry you are going through this. I can sympathize - my son was quite demanding at night, too. Read this article from Dr Sears. I particularly like points 7 and 8 - I think your son is very close to being old enough to understand when you say you just can't nurse all night anymore.

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070800.asp


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

When my daughter sleeps with us, she nurses just about ALL night long. If she sleeps in her crib, she wakes up once. For my sanity, she only sleeps with us part of the time.


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## Al Dente (Jan 8, 2004)

This will probably be cold comfort to you, but there were specific time periods in his life when my ds woke up every 30 minutes all night long. I was looking for ANY solution other than cio and really, nothing helped except sticking it out until he was ready to nightwean (at 26 months). I tried nightweaning him 3x before then (at 12, 18, and 24 mos) and nothing doing. The times I remember being particularly bad were 2-5 mos, 8-12 mos, 17-21 mos, and 23-24 mos.

Now, he sleeps in his own bed after nursing for a brief time, and sleeps all night. I NEVER thought this day would come. If you had told me a year ago, I would have laughed at you, because I too was getting so BITTER and ANGRY at this kid who wouldn't leave me alone. Constant back pain and headaches from not sleeping hardly at all. But...I'm glad I stuck it out because obviously he needed it at the time. Nightweaning-we did Jay Gordon's method and modified it. It took about a month but there was very little crying and I stayed right with him the whole time.One day he just decided he would sleep in his own bed, and that was that. He's 32 mos, btw.

(((HUGS)))


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## kkfum (Aug 14, 2005)

nak

i feel your pain--dd is a week younger than your ds and she has slept badly since about 11 weeks and is a nursaholic (lol!). lately, though, she has begun to sleep longer stretches, up to 4 hours! although, her naps are almost nonexistent now. we attribute this to dh going in to comfort her more often (we cosleep, too, but she goes to bed before us) and a much earlier bedtime--between 6 & 7. at night, i've been trying to distance myself from her a bit, because she just sleeps better w/ absolutely no movement. dh usually sleeps in the guestrm, and sometimes i join him. although this tires me out, having to get up.

we are next going to try putting a full bed on the floor in her room and starting her out in there and then bring her back to our bed at night and see how that goes.

i have tried a lot with her--chiropractor, cranial-sacral therapy, crying in arms--i really feel that they all have done some good--the most recent the cst. i am going to take her to an acupunturist who specializes in an allergy technique (NAET--you can google this), to see if she has any allergies to food. a mother i know says its worked wonders with her son. DD has always had some sort of digestive issue (i suspect), which i think has played a part.

anyway, you're not alone.

btw--i think we may have been in the same bradley birth class in philly. jane cruice's class?


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## Zuri'smom (Sep 14, 2004)

My constant nurser is now four months old. In the beginning he couldn't sleep longer than 45 minutes. When we did energy testing at the chiropractor, he tested sensitive to the following items: corn, gluten, soy, beans and citrus. After I cut those out of my diet, his sleep improved dramatically. Then, the chiro said he'd cleared and was no longer sensitive to those items. So I began eating them again.....BIG MISTAKE. my doc explained that sometimes muscle testing isn't accurate for how a food reacts in the gut. So I cut them all out again. (whichwas REALLY hard becuase gluten is an addictive food so I was really grumpy for a while). Again his sleep improved to where he was actually napping and sometimes for two hours, but at night he was still nursing every two hours, for often an hour at a time. EXHAUSTING. I feel your pain. ANd this is from a young baby, not one as old as yours. So, anyway, my point is that when he developed eczema adn he had persistant cradle cap that would go away, my doc gingerly suggested I cut out eggs as well (knowing all the other foods I was also cuting out). WITHIN 48 HOURS FROM CUTTING OUT EGGS, DS SLEPT 5 HOURS STRAIGHT AT NIGHT. I would REALLY recommend you look into food allergies. STart with energy testing at a chiro that specializes in children's chiropractic care. THey can be certified in it. GOOD LUCK!!! I know how awful it is to be sleep deprived and we are just not the people we want to be at 4 in the morning, nursing for the 6th time.


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## Orion'smommy (Jan 31, 2006)

Thanks for the advice. I usually don't mind the entire 6 times a night thing, but the last two nights it has really bothered me. Sometimes it feels unfair that I am treating my child with the upmost respect and he is abusing me/the situation. I don't feel as there is anything wrong with him in terms of health. He doesn't have allergies, etc. I think he feels me during the night in REM sleep and thinks, "Hmmmmm, I'll drink some milkies now."

We have just started to put him in his daybed to go to bed, but (like in our bed) he only sleeps one straight hour.


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## Zuri'smom (Sep 14, 2004)

Orion's mommy - bottom line is that you know your son the best. And if you know what he's doing, which is just taking advantage of your milkies being available, then go with your gut and lay down the law now that it is no longer working for you. Nursing is a relationship, that involves two (and often three and four people if you include dh and other child!), so it has to work for both of you. you are right for doing what you need to in order to stay in the relationship. Good luck!


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

OP:









Quote:

And if you know what he's doing, which is just taking advantage of your milkies being available, then go with your gut and lay down the law now that it is no longer working for you.
But he's a baby. He's NOT "taking advantage." If we believe that children are innately good and are simply acting in an effort to get their needs met---he's trying to get his needs met by nursing--it's not like it's a luxury







--he is comforted by nursing---not manipulating or taking advantage of the mother. These needs may or may not be determined to be high on a mother's priority list, but they are still valid.

OM: I wonder if it's a lot different for him to be sleeping solo, though. In combination with whatever's is going on w/a fifteen mo old, which is a lot. He's used to your scent, proximity...he might be a very "sensory" child where there is no substitute for what he needs...you and your touch, etc







I'm not sure if tactile is the word...but YKWIM.

My ds1 actually cannot sleep if he's not in contact with someone. Ds2 and dd, they didn't get this. I wonder if it's heredity or if this could be attributed it to his first few days of life in the NICU







But, anyway....my ds does actually have dairy allergy, and he was up every hour the first few yrs of his life







When I read Dr. Doris Rapp's Is This Your Child?, I was like, if only someone had suggested this a year ago! She listed like almost all of the behavior he displayed at night and daytime in her book. I was like









I'm not sure if you saw it, but there's another thread around here about the difficulties of 15 months...it does pass, but it can be so challenging.

Quote:

*
I am treating my child with the upmost respect and he is abusing me/the situation.*
I have felt this exact way before my ds's dairy allergy was diagnosed. I was honestly feeling very angry about this hitting (though he was older.) But, your ds is fifteen months old, yes (?). He's trying to communicate in the only way he knows how. Please believe that he's innately good---and he wouldn't intentionally hurt you..he's just unable to express himself and it's frustrating.


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## CalBearMama (Sep 23, 2005)

First off, I second the suggestions to look into possible food sensitivities. I didn't think my DS had any symptoms of food allergies, but once I decided to try cutting out dairy and soy because he was only pooping every 4-6 days, things changed for the better in a lot of ways.

Second, I'll tell you what I discovered when my DS's restless sleep was driving us all crazy. When he was about 10 months old, he would sleep for a couple of hours to start the night, but then the kicking, thrashing, and constant nursing would start. After doing a lot of reading here at MDC and elsewhere, I concluded that perhaps he needed to pee (not surprising given how much he was nursing right before bed).

Thus began our EC (Elimination Communication) journey. Whenever DS's restless sleep woke me up at night, I would hold him over the toilet, pull off his diaper, and let him pee. Just having his diaper taken off seemed to be enough to prompt him to let loose, but I also made a cueing noise ("sss" or running water from the tap) so that he would develop an association and know that he was in an appropriate place for going to the bathroom. After peeing, he would often go right back to sleep without even nursing, or with just a quick top-off to settle him back down, and he would then sleep peacefully for a good long stretch.

DS went through phases when he didn't want to pee without nursing first, so I would either nurse him first in bed, or I would kill two birds with one stone by nursing him while I sat on the edge of the bathtub so he could pee into it. He also went through phases when he would totally resist night-time pottying, so I just backed off and changed his diaper when it was wet. Sometimes during those times, I would actually cue him to pee in his diaper in bed, because at least if he got the pee out, he would sleep better than if he just kept trying to hold it.

I also finally realized that it would be better if I didn't have to get us both out of bed to run DS to the bathroom during the night. I currently hold him over a potty that I keep next to my side of the bed (I don't put him on it to sit during the night because the cold plastic bothers him). You could use any large bowl for this purpose.

If you want more information on EC generally, check out www.diaperfreebaby.org or the EC sub-forum of the Diapering forum here at MDC.


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## Zuri'smom (Sep 14, 2004)

"_But he's a baby. He's NOT "taking advantage." If we believe that children are innately good and are simply acting in an effort to get their needs met---he's trying to get his needs met by nursing--it's not like it's a luxury







--he is comforted by nursing---not manipulating or taking advantage of the mother. These needs may or may not be determined to be high on a mother's priority list, but they are still valid. "_

I agree! but I also had an instinct that the OP was really fed up and not interested in hearing all our suggestions, for some reason. I do believe mom's know their kids best, but you're right that kids don't take advantage - especially in infancy. When you're tired, it's easy to think kids think like adults, but they don't.

I truly hope the OP takes the time to search for answers for her DC that help him sleep better. If she feels miserable, then HE must feel miserable, too.


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## gethane (Dec 30, 2003)

my last one was like this and sadly it just didn't stop until I nightweaned him. I was pregnant and didn't necessarily intend to do it I was just trying to get some sleep for myself, and I just kept shortening his night nursing, and if it had only been an hour, trying to put him off, and then he just nightweaned, and started sleeping all night.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Both of my DDs were like this. With #1, I keep waiting for the hourly wake up calls to stop, and by 18 months they had not (and I can't sleep thru nursing). So, I nightweaned her. DH took over at night, I slept elsewhere, and once it was done (with very few tears, I might add), I went back to co-sleeping. He offered food and drink everytime she woke, and that helped a lot.

With DD2 I did it sooner as I was pregnant and very sore AND exhausted. It did not affect daytime nursing at all and it actually improved the quality of all of our lives, as we all were finally getting more sleep.

Amazingly, both girls slept really well until 5 and 6 months of age . ..for like a 4-5 hour stretch. After that, it was every 1-2 hours.


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## Orion'smommy (Jan 31, 2006)

Thanks for all of your wonderful advice! We have decided to try to get more of a routine down before bed and always put DS in his bed first. Last night he slept a whopping 3 hours before he came to our bed, and then nursed probably 4 times (oh well). I honestly do not mind usually, I think the day I posted this I was feeling emotional.

If he NEEDS to nurse that much then maybe he didn't eat enough during the day, maybe he's teething, maybe he had a difficult day, maybe he is having nightmares, who knows?!

I will go with the flow and continue to do what is best for my son- sleep with him and nurse him when he needs it. And, I will remain positive throughout.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Quote:

especially in infancy. When you're tired, it's easy to think kids think like adults, but they don't.








That's when I've always been blessed with others who have BTDT to talk me down









Quote:

I will go with the flow and continue to do what is best for my son- sleep with him and nurse him when he needs it. And, I will remain positive throughout.










There is nothing ever wrong about being emotional







We've all been there, and many of us are there right now







Something that I've found to be important is to *let* myself feel the negative emotions--and express them! They are real---and normal--and okay







They just are. It's also been very important for me to "know my audience" when I do need to express myself (vent)---talking it over w/people who believe in what I believe in---not say, looking to my mother for support







Also, if I'm talking to dh---telling him. hey, look, I don't need you to SOLVE this...just listen.

Nursing a bunch can often be teething. Food allergies, too are so often a culprit, as are developmental leaps, colds, stress, etc. You sound like a really wonderful and caring mama--hang in---it's tough but so worth it


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *georgia* 
] Also, if I'm talking to dh---telling him. hey, look, I don't need you to SOLVE this...just listen.


Yup-- only YOU know when it is a problem to solve, and when it is time for support (venting) without changing anything. It doesn't have to be one way or another . . .for me, it usually goes venting without change until I know for sure that I can't live a certain way anymore. Everyone is different, and only you know when that change needs to happen! Some people will tell you to change now, some will tell you to just put up with what is going on even though it simply isn't working. Ultimately, trust yourself!


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## 2much2luv (Jan 12, 2003)

You don't _have_ to stop co-sleeping to nightwean. I nightweaned my dd but we continue to co-sleep happily.


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## shanna-cat (Jul 30, 2006)

We had a very simular situation with our ds when he was about 12 months. He was crawling back and forth over me all night long to switch nursing sides while at the same time clawing at my skin! After a few weeks of this I could not take it any longer and with MUCH help with dh worked on night weaning him. We went step by step and after about a week had him sleeping mostly through the night (still wakes up 2-3 times) but goes back to sleep with a rub on the back or quick rock in the chair. This has been our schedule now for a while (ds is 17 months now) except for when he is teething, or has the occasional rough day.
Never thought of food allergies... maybe I will look into this a little bit more.
Good luck to you!


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatWrangler* 
When my daughter sleeps with us, she nurses just about ALL night long. If she sleeps in her crib, she wakes up once. For my sanity, she only sleeps with us part of the time.

We do this too. But I've also noticed that when DD nurses all night long, she doesn't get good sleep either. So by sleeping apart half the night, we both get quality sleep but still get to snuggle.


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## apelilae (Oct 8, 2006)

I'm sorry things are so rough on you right now. I was just wondering what you said myself. I know some mamas who don't CS or BF and they have perfect sleepers







: I don't understand, but it seems like you got a lot of good response on here. I hope things are better soon.


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

my DS is 13 months and has done this for the last 8 months or so. there are some nights i really have a difficult time with this, but i just try to remember that it will end and when it does it will only be a memory. and then i will be able to sleep in peace next to my DP and DS


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## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Orion'smommy* 
Sometimes it feels unfair that I am treating my child with the upmost respect and he is abusing me/the situation. I don't feel as there is anything wrong with him in terms of health. He doesn't have allergies, etc. I think he feels me during the night in REM sleep and thinks, "Hmmmmm, I'll drink some milkies now."

i feel compelled to say that I believe its IMPOSSIBLE for a 15 month old to abuse a situation like this. That is a very common reason mainstream ppl give to CIO. yk, in order to prevent him/her from taking advantage of you.

i do think you should look into allergies or chiro. adjustment. it cant hurt to at least eliminate those possibilities.


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## Orion'smommy (Jan 31, 2006)

He does see a chiropractor everyweek!









It's funny because the day after I posted this I think DS knew, because for the first time in his life he slept 5 straight hours!! The following nights he has slept three straight hours.

Right after I made my first post I felt completely better about the situation. Sometimes it feels good to post on here to let one's frustrations out!!


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

One thing that gets mentioned often but is often overlooked is teething. The OP's baby is 15mo, which is prime time for the molars to come in. Molars are not cute little teeth that just jut through and voila, they're out. They are big nasty teeth with lots of points, and after all those points poke through then there's all this gum in the middle of the points that has to be passed through ... yeah, ouch. And they take a long time to come in. A looooong time.

Also, as our herbalist/acupuncturist in NYC had pointed out to us repeatedly, the term "growing pains" refers to real, actual pain. Babies are growing a lot at this age ... and it's an achy, painful feeling. And they do a lot of growing in their sleep, at night. And pain does make babies want to be close with their mothers and nurse ...










Baby pain relief of whatever kind is acceptable to you should also be a consideration ...


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