# What are School Administrators Thinking???



## jbodily (Jun 29, 2005)

My 15 year old threw a water bottle from the bus last week. I am being told that an empty water bottle dented a car (have yet to see the car and the police said they were sending a report but have yet to see that either). The school, in their infinite wisdom, have suspended the child for 10 days, will take 30% off his grade, and can extend the suspension under the guidance of the superintendent. And they have already requested an extension.

OK, I hear about this on a Friday afternoon at 2







m while I am at work. I become upset...who wouldn't...and the administrator keeps going on and on about how dangerous his behavior is. I finally just tell her I can't talk about this because I am too upset and can't think rationally. She calls me three (3) more times!!! to tell me all about his suspension. I keep telling her to stop calling, I can't do this right now. I go in on Monday to talk to her. I ask her what she expects my child to learn from this experience. Her answer is "I hope he learns to never do this again." I try to explain that because I have to go to work (I just missed 2 weeks due to a preschooler with behavioral issues) he is seeing this as a vacation. She just states she is following policy.

I called my attorney who suggested getting copies of the policy and requesting a hearing with the Board of Education. Dh called the Board and was told that they can suspend a student for no reason for up to 10 days and the parents have no recourse. And they can take the 30% off the grade. BUT there is an alternative program he can attend and will receive full credit for his work. In addition, the school does not have to provide the homework for the time out so he could lose 100% causing him to fail his classes.

Am I wrong to think this is just ridiculous??? I am not suggesting that my son not face consequences. What he did is wrong. I suggested that he should lose his bus privileges for 2 weeks (having to walk home) and make restitution. The school administrator basically laughed at me and told me that was not severe enough. Let's see...no school, no homework..school refuses to turn paperwork to district so he can attend alternative program... and no parent at home during day OR go to school, do homework, walk home, work and pay off debt...hmmm...is this really a question???

Would love to hear thoughts on this one. Oh and btw if we fight the Board he loses 100% of his credit if we lose.

Jamie


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## Marcee (Jan 23, 2007)

While I can see kicking him off the bus, and the police and said car owner being involved, I have NO idea why the school would suspend him AND take away 30% of his grade.... That is INSANE!!! He should be punished. But I dont get the grade thing.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Actually, I don't think it's too harsh. What if the driver whose car was hit lost control in the face of some unidentified object hitting his/her car and slammed into an oncoming car, killing someone? No, that's not being dramatic. It happens quite often.

If it were my kid, he'd be coming to work with me every day, not getting a free pass sitting at home.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

The school's actions on this case are ridiculous, punitive, and outrageous. In fact, the school shouldn't even be involved in this. It's a legal matter between you, your son, and the driver of the car that was suppousedly damaged. Yes, I get that it happened on a school bus, but legally that shouldn't change anything. It didn't happen on school grounds, and even if it did, it happend outside of the building, obviously not within school hours. I think that if your son did actually cause damage to another vehicle, then he should work to pay off the costs of the car. That's the right punishment. Taking away 30% of his grade because of a bottle hitting the car is completely missing the point and will only harm his self-esteem and self-worth. It won't teach him anything except to hate anyone in authority because of the unfairness of the consequences. And what's this about if you fight the board, he losses his WHOLE grade? Is that the POLICY?? So if parents disagree with the policy, and fight it, the child looses? I cannot, CANNOT see how that can be legal. I'd follow your attorney's advice and ask for a written statement of the boards policy, and if that's truly the case that your child looses 100% of his grade if you choose to challange this assinine punishment, I'd be running into court so fast their heads would spin. I'd also call the local news and make sure that the entire public knows how little their children's education is valued the school district, and how they expect everyone to be sheep and not question anything. What a crock. You have every right to be completely livid.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Stupid school.

What he did was wrong, no doubt, but that's an awfully extreme punishment.

If he fails all his classes because of this, he's going to have to repeat the semester, right? Or do summer classes? If the school put my kid in that position, I think I'd just pull him out altogether and let him pursue a GED/homeschool.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

The consequences are all wrong (ie at home all day playing instead of studying) but the consequences should be harsh. Throwing anything out of a moving vehicle, which can easily (and did) hit another vehicle, is dangerous. Regardless of whatever happens, I hope your DC does learn a valuable lesson - that he could have really hurt someone.

At a much later age, a friend and I threw warm water and chicken fat out of a 7 story building onto people on the street below (all dressed up to go to the paladium night club.) Boy, did we think this was funny. It ruined their clothes, gave them a shock. Well, the boys living in the apt above us also thought it was funny, and threw a chair out the window. A metal chair. Onto a busy street. The chair was completely demolished, and I guarantee that if a person had been under it, said person would be dead. The police came, the boys were evicted immediately. We never threw anything out the window again. I am sorry it had to get to that point to knock some sense into our heads.


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

The school has every right to be involved, he was on the school bus when the incident happened. They are still responsible for him until he steps off that bus. My son did something similar with a juice box and was suspended for 5 days so i know the outrage you're feeling but it really is dangerous. The grade thing though I'd fight. I also don't agree with the police involvement and the claim of a plastic water bottle denting a car. Give me a break. I'm willing to bet nothing comes of that so don't sweat it.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Ok yes we all know it was wrong. But it was an empty water bottle. I'm having a very very hard time seeing big ol damage from an empty water bottle. What am I missing here?

And 30% of his grade and a 10 day suspension? Are they freaking nuts?

Schools are so freaking power trippy now days.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

I can tolerate the suspension (although I too think it is stupid) - but I would be all over them about the grade.

Exactly how does throwing a water bottle out a window affect his grade in, say, math?

And does the school expect him to try in any given class if he knows he is almost gaurenteed to flunk the course? Why would he even go to class?

I also think the school is sending a horrible message: we do not care about you, and one screw-up= you're out. Bleh!

Kathy


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
The consequences are all wrong (ie at home all day playing instead of studying)

He really does NOT have to be home all day playing. Yes, I know that not *every* job lends itself to bringing the kid with. I work retail - which is generally less accommodating than office work for this sort of thing. But I can almost guarantee that my store manager would let me bring him - and put him to work. The last thing he'd be doing is playing.

"Eh, it was an empty bottle." Have you ever had something unexpected fly up into your windshield? Do you drive along saying "La la la, it was an empty bottle, no big deal"? Or do you have an instinctive reaction? Which could lead to a tragic situation. I'm sorry, but this sort of behavior needs to be nipped in the bud from the get-go. Especially with a child approaching driving age.

The school has every right to be involved. They are responsible for the child from the moment he walks out the front door to the moment he walks back in it at the end of the day.

And.... environmental incorrectness by littering!


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

It sounds like he did something potentially dangerous that was impulsive and stupid. Obviously there should be some kind of a repercussion.

I like your idea of losing bus privileges and making restitution much better, though - it's actually connected in some way with what happened.

The suspension and grade consequence does not relate directly to what happened, and frankly it sounds like it will stress out his mama far more than it will stress out him. Most mothers can't bring their teenager to work for 2 weeks, if they want to keep their job.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I am sitting here thinking how up in arms people would be if the water bottle hit an MDC child who was standing near the bus instead of a total stranger's car. "Call the police! FIle charges against the bully! He's 15 -- that was no accident, a child of that age should know better than to throw things out of a moving bus ! How dangerous! What a bully!" etc etc yadda etc.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Sure....he should be in trouble.

But is what the school is doing the best consequence?
And how are grades involved







:?

Kathy


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Duh- of course what he did was wrong. You don't and no one on here sounds like they are condoning throwing stuff out the window. It gets thorny when doling out punishment. I really am annoyed at punishing (sp?) at the lowest level of morality.

The outcome of the school's punishment would leave, imo, a child being afraid to do something stupid like that for fear of getting caught, suspended (although most kids _do_ look at that like vacation!) and messing with school grades. What do any of those have to do with the original action, I have no idea.

I am sure there are other things that could be done to help the child realize just how dangerous it could be to throw stuff out a window... or at least how gross all that stuff is along the road. What about picking up trash from the road? How about "volunteering" at a hospital where people are who've been injured in car accidents. I mean anything that will have some semblence (sp?) of natural consequences to what he did.

BTW- An empty water bottle dented a car??!?! Really?!!?


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Quote:

The school's actions on this case are ridiculous, punitive, and outrageous. In fact, the school shouldn't even be involved in this. It's a legal matter between you, your son, and the driver of the car that was suppousedly damaged. Yes, I get that it happened on a school bus, but legally that shouldn't change anything. It didn't happen on school grounds, and even if it did, it happend outside of the building, obviously not within school hours.
If a child is on a school bus, the school is still very much involved. In most school districts that I'm familiar with, in fact, the school is responsible for the student from the time he enters school property (either building or bus) until he arrives at the home/day care facility, etc...So, if a student leaves school and gets in a fight on the way home, even several blocks from the school, the school can still discipline the child. This child was one a school bus, which is, obviously, school property and therefore falls under school jurisdiction.

A 15-year-old is old enough to consider the consequences of his actions. He's almost old enough to drive, which means he needs to be thinking about the impact of his actions on the drivers around him. An empty water bottle sounds relatively harmless, but the results could have been fatal. The only part of the punishment that is unreasonable is the 30% loss of credit; the grades he has already earned should not be affected. That, I would fight. I really can't blame an administrator for being irate about it. If something had happened to the driver of that car or anyone else, the school system would have been held liable.

I'm sure there are more effective ways than a simple 2-week suspension; but, it's only a "vacation" if the parents let it be a vacation. The suspension should be filled with things like iamthesmilingone, such as cleaning up trash or volunteering (although I realize she intended for them to be instead of suspension, I don't).


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## momof2boys1girl (Nov 7, 2006)

I understand the school being involved as any behavior on the bus must be reported to the principal. I think that in school suspension and losing bus privilages makes more sense tho. I dont understand how they can do out of school suspension, demote his grade, and possibley extend the suspension is a lot.
I would also be demanding a copy of the charges against him,proof of damage, and want to speak to the person who owns the car that has the damage as a minor you are the guardian and with the police involved you should have full access to all of that info.
I do think some punishment is necessary as it is dangerous to thow objects at cars.

Good Luck!


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:

The suspension should be filled with things like iamthesmilingone, such as cleaning up trash or volunteering (although I realize she intended for them to be instead of suspension, I don't).

True... I just would like to see a clearer connection between the action and the consequnce. If a child is suspended from school, as it appears in this case, it can be more of a punishment for the parent. I worry about the effect it would have on their job and livelyhood and cost associated with arranging supervision if it is not ok to bring said suspended kid to work. Messing with a family's finances does not make sense to me over this incident when there are other options for punishment/consequences.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I don't get this consequence at all. Throwing things out of a moving vehicle is really dangerous, and there definitely should be serious consequences. But, the consequences should have something to do with the offence. The boy's grades have to do with the work he's done in class, not with something he did after school on the bus home. Taking his bus privileges and making him walk makes sense - this doesn't.

This reminds me of one of my son's friends, who gets grounded for everything. His stepmom is big on "consequences", but the consequences have nothing to do with the offending behaviour. Get lippy with your stepmom? You're grounded. Forget to eat your lunch and leave it in your pack? You're grounded. Don't finish your chores? You're grounded.

What on earth does a kid learn from "consequences" that have _no_ connection to whatever they did wrong?


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## AbundantLife (Jun 4, 2005)

I have a 14 year old and an 18 year old. The youngest has problems with impulse control. I also had an incident happen to him in school which resulted from another child's lack of impulse control which resulted in the other child being suspended. Last year, my then-17 year old lost the starring role in the school play due to getting his only failing grade ever in a class. He tried to appeal, but the school wouldn't hear of it. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and deal with the consequences of your actions.

My 14 year old is now grounded for doing something unsafe and impulsive, though not involving another person. My 14 year old had 2 bus referrals last year for not obeying bus rules.

I believe that your DS should be punished for what he did. If he gets the impression that you think the school is being too harsh, he may not think it is important to respect the rules at school and on the bus.

It is well known that young teens do not always make the best decisions, due to their brains not being fully developed. Nevertheless, your DS did do something dangerous. I hope that you talked to him about the possible consequences of his actions. Perhaps when he is done with the suspension, he could do some make up work to bring his grade back up.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbundantLife* 
I believe that your DS should be punished for what he did. If he gets the impression that you think the school is being too harsh, he may not think it is important to respect the rules at school and on the bus.

I agree that her ds should have consequences (or punishment). However, I'd be hard-pressed to pretend I agreed with the school in her shoes. The punishment isn't so much "too harsh" as wildly inappropriate. While I don't know the OP's son, I can assure you that this kind of random crap never encouraged anybody I know to have respect for the school and/or the rules. It simply taught us that we were right - the school staff/admin had their heads stuffed so far up their own butts that they couldn't see daylight. While I don't have quite that view today, I certainly had it all through school, and the random nature of the consequences that we received for misbehaviour only ever reinforced it.

You can't teach someone to respect the rules by handing out arbitrary, disconnected punishments for misbehaviour. You can easily teach them not to respect the rules that way, though.


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## karlugato (Sep 9, 2006)

30% of his grade taken off? Great way to motivate someone to just give up. Legal recourse seems appropriate. The school shouldn't be involved with that. --Lisa


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## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

Since it happened on the bus, and was clearly a very dangerous scenario, he should lose bus privileges for a certain amt of time. If someone then has to take him to school, he needs to find a way to compensate them (Since I have to drive you to school, I won't have time to ______. When can do _____ for me?" If he can walk to school he needs to walk to school. And ITA he needs to get real about how his behavior affects others. Is he eligigible for a learner's permit? Being in the driver's seat has given my DS and DD a much different view about the importance of their behavior and the potential consequences.
Suspending a kid sends the wrong message. "Ooooh, if I break the rules I don't have to go to school?!? WOOO HOOOOO!" That would've been my (as a teen) and my ds's response. Okay, I felt the same when DS was suspended ("We're going to the zoo zoo zoo







how about you you you!!")
Lots of good ideas from PPs.
Situations like this are great opportunities for kids to begin to appreciate the absurdity of artificial institutions like school. They pack kids together so now there *have* to be rules, ensuring that indidvidual's needs are ignored/slighted. All in an attempt to program them for corporate America, so they'll happily accept a Walmart job. Grrrrr.
laoxinat


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## jbodily (Jun 29, 2005)

Thank you to everyone who replied. This has been quite the situation to say the least. The police department called to say that they have completed their report and have the statements from everyone. Really??? They never talked to my son. Wasn't he involved in the incident? Don't they need a statement from him as to what happened. The school now wants us to pay them for the damages. Are you kidding?? We told them our insurance company wanted to send an adjuster to view the damages. I want to know this damage was caused by the water bottle.

I am with everyone who fails to see why the 30% deduction in grades is occurring. I don't understand what this has to do with this incident. In addition, he was struggling already now why try? And he knows he can't have his permit/license until he has all B's so now he know that is out the window.

One more question: Would you consider on-line school at this point? I just don't think he will make it with 30% cuts on all the homework and no ability to make up tests and quizzes missed during the suspension.

Jamie


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## Naless (Apr 9, 2007)

I agree with all of the schools consquences with the exception of the 30% grade reduction.

This being a vacation for you DS because you have to go to work is not the school fault as the parent it is up to you to see that this is not a vacation.

The alternative program seems to provide for your DS to make up the 30% grade loss so that seems seems fair.

I think restitution should also be required and may be if the police determine that charges are filed or the owner of the car wants to press charges or sue. I as a parent would make my DC pay for the damages regardless of any other school or police decisions.

I would agree with the administrator that your punishment of no bus privilages for 2 weeks and restitution is too lenient.

I also don't think it is fair to punish your DS if you appeal this decision to the Board and would check for the legality of that. It has to be written what the policy is and what the parents recourse is. When I was in school it was called the Student Code of Conduct and students and parents had to sign it every year at the beginning of school.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Sorry. I don't think it is too harsh either.

I have known since my child started kindergarten that it isn't O.K to throw stuff from the bus. The kids know they aren't supposed to be throwing things from the bus.

The schools don't make decisions based on an individual case anymore. They have rules, consequenses, and that is just the way it is.

I am sure he thought it was funny. But the owner of the car didn't think it was that funny.

The best lesson he will learn though, is when he gets his new car, maybe someone will throw something at it and cause a dent. Then maybe he will realize that what he did in 2007 was actually not so funny.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Naless* 
I agree with all of the schools consquences with the exception of the 30% grade reduction.

.

True. Somehow I missed that one.

It's not right to take away what he has already earned.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
The best lesson he will learn though, is when he gets his new car, maybe someone will throw something at it and cause a dent. Then maybe he will realize that what he did in 2007 was actually not so funny.

But doesn't that imply that in order to understand the other person he has to feel the same way if something like this happens to him? What if he does not care about his car or it never happens to him? Is it then beyond him why someone else would be bothered?


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jbodily* 
Thank you to everyone who replied. This has been quite the situation to say the least. The police department called to say that they have completed their report and have the statements from everyone. Really??? They never talked to my son. Wasn't he involved in the incident? Don't they need a statement from him as to what happened. The school now wants us to pay them for the damages. Are you kidding?? We told them our insurance company wanted to send an adjuster to view the damages. I want to know this damage was caused by the water bottle.

I am with everyone who fails to see why the 30% deduction in grades is occurring. I don't understand what this has to do with this incident. In addition, he was struggling already now why try? And he knows he can't have his permit/license until he has all B's so now he know that is out the window.

One more question: Would you consider on-line school at this point? I just don't think he will make it with 30% cuts on all the homework and no ability to make up tests and quizzes missed during the suspension.

Jamie

So what do you think WOULD be appropriate? So far, I don't see that you see any sort of consequence as necessary.


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## Iris' Mom (Aug 3, 2007)

I think we all appreciate that what he did was wrong and potentially very serious. Any consequence should be designed to help ds appreciate that. I think your proposal was very good. Maybe it is not "severe" enough; I don't have ideas right now, but at least it's agood start. The school's punishment just does not fit the crime at all. The reality is, for many kids, suspensions are just vacations; those who misbehave the most are the ones most likely to perceive a suspension as a vacation. I really don't think it is ever appropriate punishment unless the child's behavior involves harming another student or disrupting the class or the like. At best, suspensions are counterproductive. And the grade cut is just way out of line -- if he had straight A's, that's a C- at best. Where is his incentive to do better in the future? How is ruining this boy's future proportionate? If he had been arrested for drunk driving, at least as dangerous and probably more, he probably would have had his license suspended and perhaps had to go to AA; it would probably be a misdeamenor that would not have to be disclosed, and the school probably would not have been involved.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

It does seem the school is after blood. Unless he is a really great student, 30% reduction in grades means he will likely fail the entire yr. Is this the first time he's had difficulties?


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## captivatedlife (Aug 16, 2006)

30% off his grade is wrong. He is earning his grade in each class - it is not based on outside behavior. if it doesn't, that policy should violate his rights and I would find a lawyer and find what recourse you have.

Suspended / Expelled I'm fine with














don't think it's right - it teaches nothing imo, but I don't find anything fundamentally WRONG with it.

Having to pay for the damage I'm fine with







:


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## mahna_mahna (May 3, 2006)

Hrm. I never viewed suspension as a vacation and I had to spend it at home alone too. Then again, at the time, I all ready had my license and my father took the keys away to my car telling me that I wasn't responsible enough to keep myself in school therefore I wasn't responsible enough to keep myself out of trouble elsewhere either.

I don't know...I really don't. I think that there are a lot of different steps that could've been taken first. What I want to know is whether or not he was actually AIMING at the car because IMO I think it's of importance. Has he had any OTHER problems besides the one? There are lots of details missing.


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## jbodily (Jun 29, 2005)

He was not aiming at the car. He succumbed to peer pressure. The other kids were tossing the bottle around the bus and he batted at it and it went out the open window. As far as other behavioral trouble, he has been tardy once at school because he likes to talk to his peers. He has not had problems on the bus nor problems in his classes as far as problematic behavior. This is his first year at this school. He has a detention because I wouldn't excuse his late when he failed to set his alarm clock and had to wait for my younger two children to get ready before I could get him to school. I let him experience the consequence of his action. My problem in this case is the ridiculous 30% reduction in grades which will mean repeating 10th grade. The school claims they are not trying to "crush" him academically..but how can they not be??? The kid is suspended, losing 30% of his grades on homework (can't make up tests or quizzes), and the school is demanding restitution to them. I can go with the restitution, I think bus suspension or In school suspension would be more appropriate in this case but the deduction of 30% is absolutely unfair.

Jamie


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## zaadad (Feb 29, 2004)

I didn't read the whole thread, but I would really look into and appeal the legality of them deducting from his grade. At my school, students CAN NOT be punished academically for behaviour. Those are two VERY seperate things.

Curtis


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## mirlee (Jul 30, 2002)

No one has mentioned that most schools have adopted zero tolerance policies. Most of these policies sound and are totally nuts. Based on the actions of a few students who did something bad, the policies now basically give punishments not matter what the infraction is.

I think suspension is a waste. In school suspension is better. They have to go to school, they have to do their work, they are under constant supervision, they have no rights or privelges. I would personally make them write a report based on their actions.

Taking his grades down 30% is wrong. He did earn those grades.

I'll have to ask Dh his opinion. He's a teacher.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

With the additional info you posted, I feel even worse for him. What happened was an accident. While he shouldn't have been goofing off like that, losing bus privileges for a couple weeks seems like sufficient punishment. I'm sure the bus company has insurance that would cover the damages to the other vehicle -- assuming there were any.

I would definitely be talking to him about trying out online schooling options or homeschooling. Having to repeat a grade over an accident seems ridiculously unfair!


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

If you are a good reporter, and the events took place exactly as you state, and he wasn't coming to this new school with a 'history' where they have red- flagged him as trouble, I am going to guess you live in Florida.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
If you are a good reporter, and the events took place exactly as you state, and he wasn't coming to this new school with a 'history' where they have red- flagged him as trouble, I am going to guess you live in Florida.









Well, if she *does* live in FL, like I do, then she certainly has recourse about taking the deduction from his grades. My husband is a teacher and I was a teacher before I became a mother, and when a child is punished, like the one referenced in this thread, there is NEVER an automatic reduction in grades. How on earth would that even be figured? 30% off his total points averaged? He'll miss 30% of the semester? It doesn't sound quite right to me.

I would say one of two things are happening here:

--jbodily misunderstood the punishment completely, and while here he probably would have been suspended as well, there would be no mention of his grades.

--The principal was very upset at this behavior and lost her mind for a minute. She's a human being and certainly has buttons like us all. When I was reading, I too was concerned about the behavior mentioned (before the clarification) because not only can an empty bottle thrown from a moving bus hurt property, it can hurt a human! Yes, I know, empty bottle and all that, but it was thrown from a moving vehicle and if my child had done that I would be LIVID. It's not safe behavior. Also, it's littering! Which we teach our children is also wrong. So, perhaps she felt very passionate about this particular offense. I've seen administrators be really strict about sexual harrassment or skipping school or whatever because their own personal biases play into their decision making ability. Of course it does--they're human.

And the crack about FL? Yeah, not nice.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlyboys* 

And the crack about FL? Yeah, not nice.

Heck, I have beloved relatives who live in FL. But if you skim through these boards, you'll find many stories about FL schools. I especially remember the one where a 5 yr old was tasered, and another where they handcuffed a Kindergartner to a chair. And one other word: Jeb.

Ti change it, you've got to own it.

But wouldn't it be fun if the boy in the OP was from MA? (That's where I am from). If he is MA, I know that there is no way the school can do that and she has legal recourse.


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## jbodily (Jun 29, 2005)

I live in Missouri, just moved here last December due to a job transfer for husband.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mirlee* 
No one has mentioned that most schools have adopted zero tolerance policies. Most of these policies sound and are totally nuts. Based on the actions of a few students who did something bad, the policies now basically give punishments not matter what the infraction is.

I think suspension is a waste. In school suspension is better. They have to go to school, they have to do their work, they are under constant supervision, they have no rights or privelges. I would personally make them write a report based on their actions.

Taking his grades down 30% is wrong. He did earn those grades.

I'll have to ask Dh his opinion. He's a teacher.

ITA with this. Schools think that they are the parents of peoples children and that they own them. It's gotten insane IMO.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jbodily* 
He was not aiming at the car. He succumbed to peer pressure. The other kids were tossing the bottle around the bus and he batted at it and it went out the open window. As far as other behavioral trouble, he has been tardy once at school because he likes to talk to his peers. He has not had problems on the bus nor problems in his classes as far as problematic behavior. This is his first year at this school. He has a detention because I wouldn't excuse his late when he failed to set his alarm clock and had to wait for my younger two children to get ready before I could get him to school. I let him experience the consequence of his action. My problem in this case is the ridiculous 30% reduction in grades which will mean repeating 10th grade. The school claims they are not trying to "crush" him academically..but how can they not be??? The kid is suspended, losing 30% of his grades on homework (can't make up tests or quizzes), and the school is demanding restitution to them. I can go with the restitution, I think bus suspension or In school suspension would be more appropriate in this case but the deduction of 30% is absolutely unfair.

Jamie

ITA, wow that is so freaking messed up.









Can you pull him out of there and put him in a better school?


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## sophiekat (Oct 29, 2005)

have you spoken to the principal again? anyone on the school board? a lawyer?
this whole situation is just ridiculous -- has your son been back to school?


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Basically what he did was littering. There were unforseen consequences to that littering, but it seems insane to give a 2 week suspension and a huge mark deduction for littering







:

Though from the PoV of a 15 year old boy, what are the real consequences/lessons learned?
1) he gets to spend 2 weeks at home all day without parental supervision (TV, computer, hanging out)
2) he will probably fail the term and thus have to repeat the year, so why bother to make any effort to work for the rest of the year, since he will be doing it all over
3) he learns that school grades are not dependant on his academic efforts alone, and no matter how hard he works they can be lost for totally unrelated reasons.

*not saying this will be YOUR son's attitude, but it is something to wonder about with respect to the school's response*


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

They should be able to suspend him, but NOT hurt his grade. Grades should ONLY be for academic work. I'd contact an attorney and take it to court. Seriously.


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## Jenlaana (Oct 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
ITA with this. Schools think that they are the parents of peoples children and that they own them. It's gotten insane IMO.

This is so far reaching and so unbelievably true. I have had dozens of disagreements with school personnel over my son (he is special needs - behaviorally based not a physical or obvious impairment). The schools have refused to work with me and have treated him negatively in many situations where it was not deserved based on their own ideas and their opinion that THEY are parenting my child. My situation is entirely different, but the lack of willingness to be part of a team in my child's life and an insistence that everything was non-negotiable regardless of how illogical was just as extreme.


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## mahna_mahna (May 3, 2006)

...oh, In School Suspension...*twitches*
I have to agree with this comment. If you hadn't noticed, I was a horrible student, an even worse teenager to my parents...just all together a hell child.







: I got over it and grew up and am having my own little one here any day now. *woot!* (Sorry, I like frequenting the Teen forum...)
In School Suspension, if they have such a thing there (which they SHOULD) is by far the WORST punishment you can imagine while still being the most practical. It is NOT fun in any way shape or form. I remember having to be there the minute I stepped on campus, having to sit down and be still, they gave me an assignment (most of the time beyond just normal homework, this consisted of my writing the same sentence 100 times on a piece of paper for whatever reason I was in there, but only AFTER I had finished my homework) then we took two bathroom breaks...lunch was eaten in the room, quietly. And those who had all their homework finished (they checked it before we did this) got the pleasure of running around campus and...CLEANING UP LITTER. So, yes, I think ISS would've been a much better route for them to have taken. But then again, that's only because I'm assuming that they'd do the same things that they did when I went to ISS...
Plus they were smart enough to have the most strict teacher watching over the class. Don't even bother talking...unless you like ISS for another day.


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## Tinas3muskateers (May 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marcee* 
While I can see kicking him off the bus, and the police and said car owner being involved, I have NO idea why the school would suspend him AND take away 30% of his grade.... That is INSANE!!! He should be punished. But I dont get the grade thing.









:


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## Tinas3muskateers (May 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mahna_mahna* 
...oh, In School Suspension...*twitches*
I have to agree with this comment. If you hadn't noticed, I was a horrible student, an even worse teenager to my parents...just all together a hell child.







: I got over it and grew up and am having my own little one here any day now. *woot!* (Sorry, I like frequenting the Teen forum...)
In School Suspension, if they have such a thing there (which they SHOULD) is by far the WORST punishment you can imagine while still being the most practical. It is NOT fun in any way shape or form. I remember having to be there the minute I stepped on campus, having to sit down and be still, they gave me an assignment (most of the time beyond just normal homework, this consisted of my writing the same sentence 100 times on a piece of paper for whatever reason I was in there, but only AFTER I had finished my homework) then we took two bathroom breaks...lunch was eaten in the room, quietly. And those who had all their homework finished (they checked it before we did this) got the pleasure of running around campus and...CLEANING UP LITTER. So, yes, I think ISS would've been a much better route for them to have taken. But then again, that's only because I'm assuming that they'd do the same things that they did when I went to ISS...
Plus they were smart enough to have the most strict teacher watching over the class. Don't even bother talking...unless you like ISS for another day.


@ my dd's high school they did away with ISS and have whats called ALT ED. Its a different school that all the trouble makers go go and they have to serve like 1-3 months in ALT ED. Not sure what they learn by going there, other then being a bigger disruption, and they do OSS... which was always fun for me lol. Give me 3 days off, thank you!


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## mahna_mahna (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tinas3muskateers* 
@ my dd's high school they did away with ISS and have whats called ALT ED. Its a different school that all the trouble makers go go and they have to serve like 1-3 months in ALT ED. Not sure what they learn by going there, other then being a bigger disruption, and they do OSS... which was always fun for me lol. Give me 3 days off, thank you!

We had both of those.
Alternative Education was also for the "trouble makers" as it were (I went there the last two years of high school because I was a ...very bad kid.) What we did was we were given any and all homework in whatever we wanted to take and we were allowed to do it at our own pace. Surprisingly enough, this worked wonders! A lot of the students that were "trouble makers" (myself, somewhat included) were just bored in school and therefore disruptive. Of course, we knew what we were doing was wrong...so that doesn't mean it was justified. But ultimately, a lot of people that would not have graduated from high school got to graduate a YEAR EARLY in Alternative School. They even built the new Alternative School in a different area from the high school, making it into a new 'school' altogether.
It was nice...if only I had stopped being stupid before I went there...


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## malibusunny (Jul 29, 2003)

I'm on the first page, but the teacher in me has a huge issue with this affecting his grade. That's foolish. An academic grade is meant to represent the student's level of proficiency in a subject. Period. It is not meant to reflect behaviour of any kind, not even behaviour within the classroom, let alone behaviour on the school bus.

Out of school suspension is only supposed to be used when a child is considered too dangerous to remain in the school building. In school suspension was created precisely for circumstances like this, where getting out of school would be a vacation. I think that regardless of the school punishment, you should stick with your own idea of restitution and walking home from school. Just because the school enacts a stupid consequence does not mean that you can't follow up with a logical one.


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## zaadad (Feb 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
Heck, I have beloved relatives who live in FL. But if you skim through these boards, you'll find many stories about FL schools. I especially remember the one where a 5 yr old was tasered, and another where they handcuffed a Kindergartner to a chair. And one other word: Jeb.

Ti change it, you've got to own it.

But wouldn't it be fun if the boy in the OP was from MA? (That's where I am from). If he is MA, I know that there is no way the school can do that and she has legal recourse.

Yeah, I do "own" it. We're working hard in FL to make a difference now that Governor "Duh" is gone (Our Gov. now is Charlie Crist; jury's still out on that)...

My own children go to a public, charter Montessori School and are receiving a fabulous education. My husband is involved actively with school reform and plans to open his own high school. I'm involved in trying to get a Montessori Middle school opened. Change can happen, it is happening.

Owning it is one thing; purposefully making jibes and jokes is unnecessary, really. It's fine--FL's an easy mark, but for those of us here trying to make a difference, it's irritating as hell to see comments like this.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Uhh. Sorry about that. My husband was logged in.


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

I'm sorry but I can see why they suspended him(although I do think 10 days is a very long time). THe only thing I do not agree with is taking 30% off his grade for it, that should not be included as "punishment".


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## Jennyfur (Jan 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
Actually, I don't think it's too harsh. What if the driver whose car was hit lost control in the face of some unidentified object hitting his/her car and slammed into an oncoming car, killing someone? No, that's not being dramatic. It happens quite often.

If it were my kid, he'd be coming to work with me every day, not getting a free pass sitting at home.









:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbundantLife* 
I believe that your DS should be punished for what he did. If he gets the impression that you think the school is being too harsh, he may not think it is important to respect the rules at school and on the bus.

I agree with this. Like most posters, I think the 30% grade reduction is overly harsh, but I'd be glad that (1) the driver of the car wasn't injured/killed, and (2) my child wasn't expelled.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jbodily* 
My problem in this case is the ridiculous 30% reduction in grades which will mean repeating 10th grade. The school claims they are not trying to "crush" him academically..but how can they not be??? The kid is suspended, losing 30% of his grades on homework (can't make up tests or quizzes), and the school is demanding restitution to them. I can go with the restitution, I think bus suspension or In school suspension would be more appropriate in this case but the deduction of 30% is absolutely unfair.

Jamie

I think you can appeal all of this. If you are asking them to change the suspension to an in school suspension, and drop the idea of a 30% grade reduction, they might do this, because you aren't saying "my kid would never do that, he's so precious"

I DO think he needs to be in trouble for what he did. I wouldn't totally believe my kid if she said, "I didn't mean to throw it out the window". I would belive she didn't mean to hit a car though.

But, to make it impossible to pass the 10th grade over this would be too much for me to tolerate. I would possibly even take that to the media. People in your district need to hear what happens to a kid when he makes one little mistake. It isn't like he was dropping bolders off the freeway overpass.

I would probably look into other schools if I couldn't get them to change their minds on the grade reduction. I don't think I could let my child repeat a grade for one mistake. I made TONS of bad choices as a teen. If I had to punished for every stupid idea, I would still be in high school.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zaadad* 
Yeah, I do "own" it. We're working hard in FL to make a difference now that Governor "Duh" is gone (Our Gov. now is Charlie Crist; jury's still out on that)...

My own children go to a public, charter Montessori School and are receiving a fabulous education. My husband is involved actively with school reform and plans to open his own high school. I'm involved in trying to get a Montessori Middle school opened. Change can happen, it is happening.

Owning it is one thing; purposefully making jibes and jokes is unnecessary, really. It's fine--FL's an easy mark, but for those of us here trying to make a difference, it's irritating as hell to see comments like this.

Oh, trust me, I am rooting for you. It's sickening enough to have a B who is pres, but to experience a B pres while also having a B as govenor... ...Shiver....is all I can say.

The whole country is watching FL try to turn it around. Honest to the goddesses.


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## Milky Way (Sep 17, 2004)

As a high school teacher I felt the need to chime in. As for the punishment the 10 day suspension is pretty standard for something that dangerous. As for the grade reduction issue what does your student/parent handbook say? If it says that the grade reduction is part of the punishment than you don't have much to stand on as you were made aware of the consequences your child would be held to way before your child ever misbehaved.

Also you have not mentioned if your child has had any previous disiplinary action. Has he recived any detentions, Iss's or Oss's before(meaning this year or last year). Have teachers or the school called home about any previous misbehaviors?

I ask as those things also play into how severely your child will be punished. I'd be darn suprised if the school was seeking an extension on the OSS for a first time offender (in my district punishments build and extentions come after a series of write-up even if the last one wasn't serious), however, if they are then you need to fight the extension.


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## Milky Way (Sep 17, 2004)

opps double posted so I deleted the second post.


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## Flower of Bliss (Jun 13, 2006)

This sounds like a rough situation. I never liked the idea of off campus suspension. However, as a teacher, I think I can clarify the "30% grade reduction." My understanding from this is that homework and quizzes make up 30% of your child's total grade. During the 2 weeks that he will be out of class, he will not be able to take in class quizzes or hand in homework, so he will receive 0s on any homework and quizzes for those 2 weeks. They will not deduct anything from his current grades, nor take anything from his grades once he is back. It also sounds as though he CAN make up any tests he misses during the 2 weeks. Assuming I'm understanding this correctly, this is not as harsh a punishment as it sounded at first. The school I taught at required teachers to send all work to all students everyday that they were out on suspension (which was in school). It created LOTS of work for already overworked teachers. I can see how this policy came about, even if I don't 100% agree with it. Although it will certainly hurt his grade, it will not inherently cause him to fail - especially if you are certain to make sure he keeps up with what's going on in class by getting homework assignments and notes from peers.


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## Jennyfur (Jan 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Flower of Bliss* 
This sounds like a rough situation. I never liked the idea of off campus suspension. However, as a teacher, I think I can clarify the "30% grade reduction." My understanding from this is that homework and quizzes make up 30% of your child's total grade. During the 2 weeks that he will be out of class, he will not be able to take in class quizzes or hand in homework, so he will receive 0s on any homework and quizzes for those 2 weeks. They will not deduct anything from his current grades, nor take anything from his grades once he is back. It also sounds as though he CAN make up any tests he misses during the 2 weeks. Assuming I'm understanding this correctly, this is not as harsh a punishment as it sounded at first. The school I taught at required teachers to send all work to all students everyday that they were out on suspension (which was in school). It created LOTS of work for already overworked teachers. I can see how this policy came about, even if I don't 100% agree with it. Although it will certainly hurt his grade, it will not inherently cause him to fail - especially if you are certain to make sure he keeps up with what's going on in class by getting homework assignments and notes from peers.

If so, that sounds like a much more reasonable explanation.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

What he did was dangerous, thankfully no one was hurt. And since no one was hurt, I don't understand why the punishment is so severe. I understand a littering fine, paying for restitution for any damages (if any) loss of bus priviliges, (even permanent) and maybe a 3 day suspension. But 30% loss of grade and 10 days out? Wow. Thats a bit harsh, unless the child is known to get into trouble. I don't see how the loss of grade is a relevant unless work wasn't made up. Maybe its quizzes they will receive 0's for? That I understand, b/c many teachers have policy's that if you miss the quiz day, you take a zero. (and there are enough quizzes each semester that missing one or two won't make you fail) Is this the first time your child has been suspended or gotten into any trouble?


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## Iris' Mom (Aug 3, 2007)

I still really think it's outrageous, especially as it seems it was an accident. Yes, the result was very dangerous and could have been much more so, and as a former "goody two shoes" I've always hated that kind of fooling around, but I still think the punishment is extreme, and so unrelated to the "crime" that I wonder what he will learn from it? I hope the other kids involved in throwing the bottle around were punished as harshly, as it was pure chance that it was your son's hand that swatted it out the window.


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## onelilguysmommy (May 11, 2005)

what does the school want restitution FOR???

and the grades thing is way beyond ridiculous. i say call a lawyer too.


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## SusanElizabeth (Jun 2, 2006)

I hope you will keep us informed about the final outcome of all this. I also believe that taking 30% off his grade is ridiculous. It's as if the school _wants_ to see him do badly. Shouldn't educators be most concerned with kids getting the best education possible?

Is this 30% off his _quarterly_ grade? What kind of system is this school on?


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