# How do you tell someone...



## angelamariebee (Jun 20, 2008)

..that they are using their seat wrong? I have a friend who whenever I see pictures of her kids in their carseats they are soooo unsafe. Her five year old has been out of a seat/booster for over a year, and she just moved her two year old into a regular booster (not a HBB). Even when the 2yo was in a convertible seat, it was never tight enough, chest clip always all the way down, and her arms were rarely even in the straps. She turned her youngest seat forward facing around 11 months. I know she thinks I'm an overprotective nut because I kept DD rear-facing until she was nearly three. She even made a comment when she turned her youngest's seat around about how I wouldn't like it. I just care about her kids so much, I would hate to see them hurt. I don't understand because she has TWO convertible seats, that would be perfectly fine for her youngest two (I think she has AOE's). I don't know how to bring this up with her without sounding like a jerk.

Help!!


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

If she's a friend of yours on Facebook, for instance, start posting links to childseat safety videos and websites, and hopefully, she'll look at one one day. That might be all you can do, since she already knows that you are concerned, in some manner. Well, I suppose the last thing would be to give an anonymous call to the local police department's child seat safety person, and ask if they would send her a letter and brochure or something, offering a free carseat check.


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

I have the same problem with a friend of mine. She turned her VERY small daughter around at 11 months and her harness is always so loose that she might as well not be in a seat at all. She also never uses the seat belt lockoffs, so the seats are not tight at all in the car. It scares me silly when I ride with her.

She thinks I am an absolute nut in keeping my 2 year old still RF'ing. The whole thing just makes me so uncomfortable. It really feels as though I would lose the friendship if I bring it up with her again, and I can't really afford to cut her out of my life. I have a circle of single mama friends, and we all get together frequently, so it is a very hard spot to be in.


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## angelamariebee (Jun 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverSky* 
If she's a friend of yours on Facebook, for instance, start posting links to childseat safety videos and websites, and hopefully, she'll look at one one day. That might be all you can do, since she already knows that you are concerned, in some manner. Well, I suppose the last thing would be to give an anonymous call to the local police department's child seat safety person, and ask if they would send her a letter and brochure or something, offering a free carseat check.

That's what I have done in the past, posting informative videos and whatnot when I see that people have turned their kids around too soon, etc. I want to try both of the things you've listed. Does anyone have quick links to youtube videos? I'm going to start searching (I've seen a few good ones but don't have them saved).

And how do I find a CPST (that's what I'm looking for, right?) through the police department? I'm looking on their website but I'm not seeing anything. Can anyone help me find one? I'm really terrible at finding things like this online.


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## angelamariebee (Jun 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pumpkin_Pie* 
I have the same problem with a friend of mine. She turned her VERY small daughter around at 11 months and her harness is always so loose that she might as well not be in a seat at all. She also never uses the seat belt lockoffs, so the seats are not tight at all in the car. It scares me silly when I ride with her.

She thinks I am an absolute nut in keeping my 2 year old still RF'ing. The whole thing just makes me so uncomfortable. It really feels as though I would lose the friendship if I bring it up with her again, and I can't really afford to cut her out of my life. I have a circle of single mama friends, and we all get together frequently, so it is a very hard spot to be in.

That's how it is for me. She is pretty much the ONLY person I know on this entire island. I can't afford to damage the friendship, but their safety comes before my emotional needs, yk? I just know there has to be a way to tell her without making her angry.

When I rode with her and her 2yo was still in a convertible, it seemed she made an attempt to keep her IN the straps only to placate me. I know she cares about her children, I just don't think she realizes how big of a deal this is.


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## angelamariebee (Jun 20, 2008)

OMG, I'd forgotton how heart-wrenching these videos are! I teared up and immediately had to go give confused DD a huge hug. I turned her seat around out of frustration (she's a TERROR in the car) when she was just over 2 1/2yo, but I am SO turning her back around until she reaches the weight limit.


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## Sarahstw (Jun 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angelamariebee* 
I know she cares about her children, I just don't think she realizes how big of a deal this is.

Apologies for thread hijacking but... I don't think *I* realize how big of a deal it is either. Maybe y'all can enlighten me with the youtube videos too.


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## angelamariebee (Jun 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sarahstw* 
Apologies for thread hijacking but... I don't think *I* realize how big of a deal it is either. Maybe y'all can enlighten me with the youtube videos too.

You can do a search on youtube for "car seat safety" and a TON will pop up. What in particular are you looking for information on? Rear-facing, 5-point harness or booster seat info, etc? I'm still looking and once I find the videos I'm looking for to post on MySpace/Facebook I will post them here too.


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## angelamariebee (Jun 20, 2008)

I wanted to add that I'm not judging her because of what she doesn't know. I've made my fair share of car seat mistakes before I learned what I should/shouldn't be doing. When you know better, you do better!


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## treehugginhippie (Nov 29, 2004)

I actually _just_ had this situation about a month ago with a longtime friend (we don't talk or see each other much now) and her 4.5 yr old. She posted a pic of her kids in the van on Facebook and her 4.5 yr old appeared to be restrained in just a seat belt with the seat belt behind her back. I sent a message to my friend letting her know I noticed this and didn't want her to get hurt but that she wasn't restrained properly and sent links to the guidelines and videos.

I don't think it helped but _I_ couldn't sleep at night knowing that my friends child wasn't properly restrained and if an accident happended she would probably be injured and that I just looked the other way and didn't say anything. At least she's aware that she's not restrained properly vs before she thought she was "doing it right". It's up to her to make a change now. To me, it's more worth upsetting my friend (even if I tried to do it as gently as possible) than to have her child be in danger.


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## angelamariebee (Jun 20, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4xhL...layer_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2DVf...layer_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8gU9...layer_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2LFo...layer_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWrxA...layer_embedded

These are the videos I posted. I think that pretty much covers children of all sizes, right?


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## angelamariebee (Jun 20, 2008)

I hope this works without being totally obvious. I really want to avoid upsetting her in any way. *cringe*


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angelamariebee* 
..that they are using their seat wrong? I have a friend who whenever I see pictures of her kids in their carseats they are soooo unsafe. Her five year old has been out of a seat/booster for over a year, and *she just moved her two year old into a regular booster* (not a HBB). Even when the 2yo was in a convertible seat, it was never tight enough, chest clip always all the way down, and her arms were rarely even in the straps. She turned her youngest seat forward facing around 11 months. I know she thinks I'm an overprotective nut because I kept DD rear-facing until she was nearly three. She even made a comment when she turned her youngest's seat around about how I wouldn't like it. I just care about her kids so much, I would hate to see them hurt. I don't understand because she has TWO convertible seats, that would be perfectly fine for her youngest two (I think she has AOE's). I don't know how to bring this up with her without sounding like a jerk.

Help!!

Did I read this correctly? A 2, *two*, _dos_, year old child in a booster, as in, with just a seatbelt? Surely this is illegal where you live right?


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## Leisha (Jan 16, 2008)

This topic made me realize I need to talk to my friend. She has a 2 month old baby and uses the cot-part of the stroller to transport her baby in the car, instead of a car seat







they just kind of pull the seatbelt around it, I guess.

I *know* she will be upset if I say something about it. She's extremely insecure, and we've had big fights before, where she felt i was belittling her if I corrected her on something or challenged her opinion. Even if I try to be as gentle as possible. Like you, OP, I really want to avoid upsetting my friend.

But what if I don't say something, and they have a car crash, and their baby is hurt...
Next time I see her, I'm going to ask if they are still not using the car seat...

I think a lot of people figure: Hey, I'm a really good driver, I drive really safe, don't speed, never drink & drive, I've never had an accident etc... so it's not a big deal.
But you can never be sure of the OTHER people on the road. (or if something suddenly goes wrong with the car, flat tyre or something, that you cant control)


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## MaryJaneLouise (Jul 26, 2005)

Leisha! Does Belgium not have ANY child car seat laws! I am totally shocked.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leisha* 
This topic made me realize I need to talk to my friend. She has a 2 month old baby and uses the cot-part of the stroller to transport her baby in the car, instead of a car seat







they just kind of pull the seatbelt around it, I guess.

Any chance she has a travel system and just isn't using the base? http://stokes.chop.edu/programs/inju..._installed.jpg


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## angelamariebee (Jun 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Equuskia* 
Did I read this correctly? A 2, *two*, _dos_, year old child in a booster, as in, with just a seatbelt? Surely this is illegal where you live right?

You did read correctly. A booster with no back, with just a seat belt.

http://www.honolulupd.org/traffic/seatbelt.htm

These are the laws here. So, if I'm reading correctly, than yes it is illegal. I'm assuming "child passenger restraint system" means an actual car seat and not a booster. And it's also illegal for her five year old to be out of a booster.


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## angelamariebee (Jun 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaryJaneLouise* 
Leisha! Does Belgium not have ANY child car seat laws! I am totally shocked.









:

Definitely say something to her!


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## Leisha (Jan 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaryJaneLouise* 
Leisha! Does Belgium not have ANY child car seat laws! I am totally shocked.

Well, I was convinced that using those travelsystem-carrycots (no idea what the proper name for them is, sorry







(edit: a "bassinet"?) it's one of these things, not sure what brand it is that my friend has ) in the car would be illegal, but after i posted, i looked it up on the Belgian Institute for Road Safety website and some of them are considered safe/are legal, if they have a specific label (ECE 44/03).

I think these are cots where the baby is also strapped into the cot in some way, right?







(which I'm pretty sure my friend doesn't have)

However, their leaflet also says that babies are much safer in a proper car seat (rear facing) and I read somewhere that they actually would not recommend the use of carrycots in the car. But it is legal.

I am definitely going to say something to her though... I'll probably see her one of the next days.

edit: OP, so sorry for hijacking your thread







but thank you for making me stop and think about this though!


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## 3boys3girls (Apr 18, 2008)

...... to all of you who have friends who "just don't understand". I have a "friend" (mom of 8 total) who is so negligent with her kids in *many* areas, including car-seat safety. *In Minnesota, there are NO booster seat laws! Once a child is age 4, he/she can use JUST the vehicle seat belts. Though I did recently hear that booster seat laws are in the works!* My "friend" has pretty small kids. She has a 7 year old boy, very small, "maybe 35 pounds", he has a mild form of CP, and he uses just a seat belt, IF HE'S EVEN BELTED AT ALL! She has a 4 year old boy, rather small, also using a SB, IF HE'S EVEN BELTED AT ALL! She has a teeny-tiny 2 year old, roughly 23 lbs, who I've seen using a HBB (high back booster), though mostly DOES use a 5 pt harness conv. seat. She will not consider rear-facing him, and his seat is NOT PROPERLY installed. ALSO, she has a 13m old TINY girl who is in an EVENFLO infant car seat. THIS SEAT MUST BE USED WITH THE BASE. THERE ISN'T A BELT PATH FOR THE SEAT BELT. THEY OFTEN JUST PULL THE SEAT BELT OVER THE SEAT & BUCKLE THE BELT. THERE'S NOTHING EVEN HOLDING THE SEAT IN PLACE. A COUPLE MONTHS AGO THIS FRIEND ROLLED & TOTALED HER 12 PASSENGER EXPRESS VAN. THE ONLY CHILD IN THE VAN AT THE TIME WAS THE YOUNGEST. SHE STILL USES THAT SEAT. THANK GOD HER BOYS WEREN'T IN THE VAN!

Yes, I have printed so much information for her regarding extended harnessing, extended rear-facing..... It doesn't do any good. I've also given her car seats. i've also installed he seats properly. She believes "she's in God's Perfect Will" or something..... She calls me a "car seat finatic" (<sp?)Why? B/c my 7.6 year old DD was JUST moved to a high back booster from a Radian? Because my tiny 4 year old rear-faced until she was almost 4 & is still in a 5pt harness? And my 27m old is still RF?

OP, I totally understand your frustration. All I can say is give her the info you have & pray she "sees the light" b/f it's too late.....AND pray for her kids' protection...!


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leisha* 
Well, I was convinced that using those travelsystem-carrycots (no idea what the proper name for them is, sorry







(edit: a "bassinet"?) it's one of these things, not sure what brand it is that my friend has ) !

OMG that's not a travel system. A travel system is like this: http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/...vel-system.jpg and is an actual carseat set into a stroller.


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

I think she is thinking she has a car bed like this

Which I would also never use unless I had a baby with a very specific need for one.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

It sounds like she's using a carrycot from a stroller. I hope not


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## Not just a mom (May 2, 2009)

I'm the car seat/safety belt fanatic out of my friends. Before I say anything to them, I make sure they realize that this is about me, not how they parent. That way it's not putting them on the defensive. Most people don't realize that car seats are not installed properly most of the time and that those straps across the chest need to be tight on infant seats.

If I'm in their vehicle, kids have to be properly secured or I drive separate. I've told them that if anything happened and I said nothing, I'd NEVER forgive myself. There are no options in my vehicle. I bought my friend 2 booster seats just so her kids would be in something other than seat belts. I've been in too many car accidents that others caused not to be concerned. You can't control people running red lights or things flying off a truck.

Good luck. It's a tough position to be in.

If they have a problem with my issue on this, it's just that - their problem.


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## TwinsTwicePlusTwo (Dec 7, 2008)

It doesn't sound like your friend is following the laws of your state. That's the way you should approach the issue. Tell her you just heard about someone getting a big fine from the police for not following the carseat laws and that you would hate to see the same thing happen to her. If it were me, I'd act like I was really surprised and that I'd had to check all of my seats too (though this may be harder to pull off if you're already seen as the 'carseat fanatic').


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## Helen_A (Mar 22, 2004)

In Europe there are currently 5 brands/models of seat for infants that are also carrycots/pramtops (as opposed to infant car seats). There is some research that suggests that they are actually safer (these models) than a stage 0/0+ seat in a european vehicle. Manufacturers are MamasandPapas, Jane, Aprica, Britax and Cybex. There may be others on mainland EU though, those are the ones currently sold in the UK market. Just to give you a heads up


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## Leisha (Jan 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Helen_A* 
In Europe there are currently 5 brands/models of seat for infants that are also carrycots/pramtops (as opposed to infant car seats). There is some research that suggests that they are actually safer (these models) than a stage 0/0+ seat in a european vehicle. Manufacturers are MamasandPapas, Jane, Aprica, Britax and Cybex. There may be others on mainland EU though, those are the ones currently sold in the UK market. Just to give you a heads up 

Wow thanks for the info








that's really interesting that they might be safer??

I can breach the subject that way with my friend: telling her I just found out those might actually be safer - specific models anyway - and asking what kind she has... she might not realise that it needs to be a specific type.

(OP, again, sorry for hijacking your topic














)


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## pixiepunk (Mar 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwinsTwicePlusTwo* 
It doesn't sound like your friend is following the laws of your state. That's the way you should approach the issue. Tell her you just heard about someone getting a big fine from the police for not following the carseat laws and that you would hate to see the same thing happen to her.









: - if she's actually not following the law in your state then that's how i would approach it. start with just trying to get her to comply with the minimum law requirements. they might not be as safe as can be, but they will be a lot safer than the current situation. i honestly can't imagine that someone who has their 2 yo in a backless booster is going to be very open to putting said child rear-facing in a convertible, KWIM? if you try to go for too much you might not get her to change anything, and alienate her in the process. and if she agrees to putting the LO back in a convertible FF, maybe you could offer to do it for her (it'll trake me 5 minutes i've done this so many times...) so you know it's at least installed properly and that the restraints are fitted properly on the LO.


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## angelamariebee (Jun 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiepunk* 







: - if she's actually not following the law in your state then that's how i would approach it. start with just trying to get her to comply with the minimum law requirements. they might not be as safe as can be, but they will be a lot safer than the current situation. i honestly can't imagine that someone who has their 2 yo in a backless booster is going to be very open to putting said child rear-facing in a convertible, KWIM? if you try to go for too much you might not get her to change anything, and alienate her in the process. and if she agrees to putting the LO back in a convertible FF, maybe you could offer to do it for her (it'll trake me 5 minutes i've done this so many times...) so you know it's at least installed properly and that the restraints are fitted properly on the LO.

Oh I don't think I could even suggest she turn her DD2 rear-facing, that would be way too much, haha. She's a BIG two year old though, she might not even meet the weight requirements for that. I don't know.


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## ashleyhaugh (Jun 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Helen_A* 
In Europe there are currently 5 brands/models of seat for infants that are also carrycots/pramtops (as opposed to infant car seats). There is some research that suggests that they are actually safer (these models) than a stage 0/0+ seat in a european vehicle. Manufacturers are MamasandPapas, Jane, Aprica, Britax and Cybex. There may be others on mainland EU though, those are the ones currently sold in the UK market. Just to give you a heads up 

thats interesting.... do you have any links? im trying to picture in my head how a carrycot would work in the car and i cant get a mental picture, lol


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## Helen_A (Mar 22, 2004)

Not all of them have images online







:

http://www.britax.co.uk/car-seats/baby-safe-sleeper/

http://www.mothercare.com/gp/product...+Aprica_Aprica although this looks much more like a conventional seat, lol

http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews74929.html

http://shop.babyworld.co.uk/DisplayD...px?prodid=1489 is the jane one - this one is made to fit into a pushchair frame like a pram

http://www.nextag.co.uk/Chicco-trio-...uk/prices-html si a conversion kit for the Chicco pram cot. Personally I don't like this one at all, but that is because the safety test ratings for this product *are* awful (meet the legal requirements, but lack a couple of side impact factors which aren't covered by the legalitys)


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Equuskia* 
Did I read this correctly? A 2, *two*, _dos_, year old child in a booster, as in, with just a seatbelt? Surely this is illegal where you live right?

DS's cousins (age 2 and 4) both ride in boosters. The mom has pictures of them on her website in the car, in boosters, with the shoulder belt behind their backs







I cringe every time I see it and just pray nothing happens to those babies.


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## MonAmiBella (Sep 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ashleyhaugh* 
thats interesting.... do you have any links? im trying to picture in my head how a carrycot would work in the car and i cant get a mental picture, lol

We have a Bebe Confort Windoo, it's a bassinet and car bed. It does have a seat belt in the bassinet part to keep them restrained.

There's a basic video of the installation of one here -





My SIL is using one with my new nephew, they love it.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MonAmiBella* 
We have a Bebe Confort Windoo, it's a bassinet and car bed. It does have a seat belt in the bassinet part to keep them restrained.

There's a basic video of the installation of one here -





My SIL is using one with my new nephew, they love it.

I hope you're not using it in the US


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## Amila (Apr 4, 2006)

I think almost every person whose child I have seen in a carseat (friends and strangers alike) have been using it wrong







For the ones who are my friends I have told them politely that their child was not correctly strapped in, and then flooded their emails with tons of info. I played the "I know I am a bit of a carseat safety nut, but I couldn't not say anything, I have researched this to death, please don't take offense..." approach. They all welcomed the info and were thankful. But strangers, I just don't have the guts to say anything!
I swear, everytime I see a baby in a carseat in a parking lot I want to cry! It is so sad that people don't give carseat safety a second thought!

I don't care if I am the "freak" with a 3-year old rearfacing. Shes only 25 pounds, so likely she will be a 6 year old rearfacing, lol!


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## MonAmiBella (Sep 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
I hope you're not using it in the US









My youngest is 4 almost 5, I'm pretty sure we're past needing it. It's been used in our cars in Europe.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Just making sure


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