# The TV question



## Kylix (May 3, 2002)

NOTE: The poll is really more than one question. One is the general TV regulation question and the other is the TV in the child's room question. You can vote more than once.

So I'm trying to get various perspectives on how much tv some of you moms allow and what you allow? Do you not regulate at all? Trusting your children to set their on viewing pace and preferences? Are you a tv-free home and opt for your children to spend their time with other activities? Do you own a tv only for use with a VCR? Do you own cable or not?

As a vegetarian who really wants to homeschool (unschool), the idea of a TV-free home is both exciting and concerning for me. I mean I think it would be so cool to go tv-free--more time for the family, the ability to get more things done. BUT if I would feel like my children were "missing out" on alot. And I know I would get comments from well meaning family and friends about my kids not eating meat or milk products, not going to school, and not watching tv.

At the same time, I think that by regulating tv you make it a forbidden fruit and I have heard all the arguments for allowing the child to get his or her fill and thus they will come to regulate tv on their own.

I also know that there is alot of educational value on tv and would love if my kids could have access to that but I also feel that tv teaches us to live passively and vicariously not to mention that there aren't a lot of positive influences on tv esp regarding POC(which I am and my children will be).

Thus, I'm turning to you, MDC mamas. I would love a wide range of views and welcome any ideas.









Kylix


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## Susan123 (Oct 7, 2002)

Hi,

We're also planning to unschool, and I completely understand your concerns. I go back and forth on how I feel about TV's educational aspects (if there are any).

On the one hand I know there's a lot of info presented on tv, and maybe it is kind of illogical of me to be so opposed to that one medium of communication. I remember watching a tv special the year after the WTC attack that made it much more emotionally real to me than all the news reports I had read when it happened, because you could see and hear the real people. TV seemed valuable to me then, and I don't discount that.

But my gut feeling for now (my ds is only 21 mos) is that tv has nothing to offer him at this age, and I don't know about the future. I was doubting myself a lot about this, but then we were over at a friends house. There were 3 kids there including my ds, all the same age. They were playing fine, then she put in a video. All the kids got wound up. It was hard to converse over the noise of the tv, hard to finish a thought in your own head. The thing that really got to me though was that I was watching the video with DS, and the images went so *fast*. He and I would be starting to get interested in something, like an animal on the screen, and it would flash away and on to the next thing. It was Baby Einstein, btw. It was like mtv for babies to me, fast paced flashing images with music. It went so fast there was no chance to settle your mind on it and learn. I have noticed that the attention span of children who watch tv is lower than my DS's attention span... maybe this is why?

I also think back to my own childhood. I was much less into tv than my friends, but we all watched a ridiculous amount of tv (like 4 hours a day or something). I often regret spending time on that, instead of the experiences I could have been having. When I think about the peak experiences of my life, most have involved being out in nature and doing something physical. And when I think back on where I learned things as a child that I value now, I think of specific books I read that really made an impact on me.

I didn't vote in the poll, btw, because none of the choices really seemed true for me. My son has watched a few hours of tv/videos in his life, mostly all when he's been sick. I tend to watch a few hours of tv and maybe a couple of videos each year.


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## MysticHealerMom (Oct 7, 2002)

I voted both ways for regulating and not regulating - I'd make sure they weren't watching scarey or inappropriate things when they were little, but when they got older I think they should be able to regulate their own tv watching.

hopefully i can be a good influence by then. i'm kind of an addict myself, now. but I think i can find something else to do. i'm already planning on cutting way back once i'm a mom.

i'd like to get rid of the tv, but there are a lot of things i enjoy watching and i think are valuable. it is part of our society, but doesn't have to be a strong part - that's where i hope to be a good influence. esp when it comes to saturday morning cartoons and all that media aimed at kids who may not be able to distinguish that it's false. I give 'em credit for recognizing bs, but the industry is very insidious about how they state things. They're lucky in the UK not to have so much comercialism on tv. It was a relief watching tv in the uk









I'd like to home or unschool, too, but don't have all my ducks lined up, yet, and DH isn't fully onboard.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Lori


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## AmandasMom (Nov 19, 2001)

She can watch The Wiggles, The Simpsons and any movies or football games, or TV shows we are watching. Everything else is off limits. We even mute the TV during commercials. I can't see anything worse then letting a child watch the network TV cartoons. Have you seen them? Violent is an understatement!!! I also have a TV tuner card in my PC, we watch TV sometimes while I'm doing whatever online. She's only 28 months so has a limited understanding of why we dont watch things, but I do explain to her why so she knows.


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## khrisday (Mar 18, 2002)

We don't have cable, and don't get any TV reception withoiut it (*not a single channel*), and I am thankful for that. We do have a DVD player and rent mopvies for that regularly, the video store has become an issue for the kid so we are trying out Netflix. This way, I can browse and choose what I think is appropriate, it comes in the mail and the kids are excited regardless of what it is. My hussband is trying to convinve me to get Dish TV and use their Tivo type option, but I am standing my ground so far. I'm so much happier without broadcast TV.


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## frogertgrl (Nov 28, 2002)

Since television is so physically damaging to the prefrontal cortex in children (hence the AAP policy of zero tv before the age of 2 and very limited viewing thereafter), I wouldn't feel good about allowing my child to view tv, videos, etc. AT ALL. Despite what Julie Clark, et. al. tries to convince me otherwise (which is suspect since the AAP doesn't ask me for a dime but babyeinstein founder needs me to buy all her stuff).

Now that it's known that there are significant physical dangers to children from television, it's more about how does the parent want to deal with allowing the risk (or all out likelihood) of their child's brain being damaged?

The AAP Policy RE9911 is the best thing I've read so far detailing the social, emotional and cognitive damages from television.

IMO, TV is not a necessary evil. Or something we sugar coat and call 'educational' when it's PBS, Sesame Street, Wiggles, Teletubbies, babyeinstein, etc. It's the medium that delivers this stuff that is so damaging...no matter the 'educational' label on the content or how that content is contrasted with more violent cartoons or whatever.


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## HotMama (Oct 26, 2002)

We have no TV, but we occasionally watch DVDs on our computer. It took us many years to get a computer and now we're thinking about what our guidelines will be for dd using it.

Our dd's 4yo sister (we adopted dd) was over the other day and watches a lot of "educational" TV. She told me details of strewn body parts after the Wellstone plane crash - it had interrupted her show. No, we won't be doing TV in this house. (Not even for dh basketball games!







)


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## frogertgrl (Nov 28, 2002)

Quote:

_Our dd's 4yo sister (we adopted dd) was over the other day and watches a lot of "educational" TV. She told me details of strewn body parts after the Wellstone plane crash - it had interrupted her show. [/B]_
_
_
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Holy moly!! What an awful thing for the precious mind of a 4 year old to process!

That is so very sad. And easily avoided in the first place.








_


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## Hilary (May 6, 2004)

We have made the call not to have a TV. I love that my daughter expects every activity she engages in to be truly engaging. I have no doubt that TV will be a big part of her childhood anyway--it's how our culture is. I feel that one of the kindest gifts I can give her is a tv-free-sanctuary at home, and the hours spent in imaginative and/or interactive activity that might otherwise be flushed down the tv. And not having a TV also means that she never sees us modeling TV watching, just reading, playing guitar or doing creative projects with our down-time.

My perceptions may change over time, and I wish to convey no disrespect to mothers who take a different approach. At this point children are 4 1/2 and almost 2, and this approach feels right to us.









I feel pretty uncomfortable with many aspects of our popular culture, the sexism/racism, consumerism, junk food addiction, violence. I figure that not inviting the TV into our home is one way to provide a buffer. I also feel that even educational TV tends to foster a kind of passivity from the viewer which I worry about.

Parenting is such a process of discovery, soul-searching, and creativity. There are no easy answers! We'll take it step by step.


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## comet (Aug 22, 2002)

I'm trying to convince dh to turn off the tv and get rid of all but one that we keep for videos/dvd's. We have 3! He agrees that dd (14 mos) shouldn't watch any and knows that we need to unplug it sooner rather than later. Habits are hard to break, I guess.


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## MysticHealerMom (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by frogertgrl_
*Since television is so physically damaging to the prefrontal cortex in children....*
Thanks for your info. I think I saw some other links from another tv thread, and I bookmark'd 'em, but I never get to read everything I find. Thanks for the reminder.


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## frogertgrl (Nov 28, 2002)

Hey, no problem, mystichealer!! It's so hard to live in these times when TV is a very powerful thing. I want my kids to fight for their minds, though. After working in marketing (for childrens' programs, no less!), I learned alot about the science of hooking kids early and tacking on a bunch of agendas (philosophies, products, services, etc.) on to the original message. Scary stuff.

I think that we as parents can't really legitmately use the lines we did even just a decade ago about TV. The lines like, 'well, I watched Sesame Street and Gumby and I turned out fine!', or 'my baby loves those babyeinstein videos!' or 'well, I parent from my instinct and my instinct tells me it's okay in moderation'...because now we KNOW television has a measurable physical impact our own precious childrens' brains. It's not a question anymore, we know now.

So, now we have to ask ourselves, 'since it is verifiable that this part of my child's brain is impoverished during ANY television viewing and that could possible lead to learning difficulties, social problems and a general lack of interactive abilities later on, what say I to the role of TV in my child's life?'

Parents can choose to say, 'yes, the brain is damaged via tv but I think I can make up for that elsewhere' but the question begged in today's world is: why would you risk this at all?

I will say that no videos, etc. makes it a helluva lot more challenging to ME as the mom to figure out the things we'll do each day!! But no one said mothering was easy. Or something to pass off when I'm burnt out.


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## lucina3 (Jun 25, 2002)

My daughters are allowed to watch quite a bit when it comes to tv. We don't allow: tv shows/channels with commercials, violence, vulgarity/rudeness. We discuss things that they may see we aren't thrilled with (i.e. on Arthur if there are rude comments/names etc used)

We approach it as "these are the shows you can watch" instead of "you may not watch XYZ" and I think that's gone a long way in preventing the "off limits shows" from becoming "forbidden fruit."

Rarely though do the girls actually sit and watch tv... they are always either reading or drawing or playing with toys while it's on. That's perfectly fine by me - I'd rather have them DOING something instead of just sitting like little zombies.


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

As far as the becoming forbidden fruit thing, I just wanted to day that when I was growing up, we were very restricted in what TV we were allowed to watch.

We could watch PBS in the afternoon (Sesame Street, Mr. Rogers, 321 Contact and Square One, (but not all those shows on the same day, only 1 hours's worth). On Saturday we could watch cartoons for 2 hours. No TV on Sundays.

Yes, when I was little, TV was fascinating. When I was over someone's house and they had the TV on, I would watch it in fascination. However, when I went to college and now as an adult I had/have very little interest in TV. We rarely watch TV.

I think by not having it as a big part of our lives when we were little, we didn't expect it to be a part of our lives, and learned to entertain ourselved without it.

With our children, we plan to allow them to watch a little bit of TV. Pick one or two shows they like (only PBS shows pre approved by us), and they can only watch those shows. Those shows HAVE to be on PBS, since I think in many ways the commercials are worse than the shows. At least with PBS there are no commercials. The only exception to this rule, is dh likes to watch college football, so they can watch that with him.

Oh, and we will NEVER have cable.

Amelia

http://mommyforlife.com


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## Elismama (Jan 2, 2002)

We just returned from the land of tv- my in laws have three televisions in there house for three people. Eli (nearly 2.5) watched a bit of a kids movie my sister in law put in- it was scary watching him zone out. It lasted about 20 minutes and then he was done- back to building with blocks. The tv was on a lot- it is so noisy and distracting, I found my head hurting from it.

I wanted to chime in on the forbidden fruit argument- I just don't buy it. The only couch potatos I know have tvs. And they are the same people who don't know what to do with themselves without a tv- they have not developed any hobbies or interests outside of the tube (before you flame me notice that I said couch potatoes, not all tv watchers). The longer I have been away from tv (over 5 years now) the less I miss it. In fact, I find it downright annoying now and incredibly boring.

Anyway- I really don't intend to be highbrow about this- but I find myself defending my tv freeness all of the time (and I have turned down at least 10 offers of free tvs).


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

TV is not a bad thing, it's just a tool. It can be abused and misused and overused just like anything else. I don't think TV is evil but I am disgusted by most of what is on TV. If it were up to me we'd only use the TV to watch videos and occassional PBS, and to keep up with the news with disasters. Unfortunately every time I put away the bunny ears my dh plugs them back in and I find him wasting a lot of time vegging. He shares many of my same values as far as no violence or lewd acts, etc. but will waste his time with sitcoms.

I think TV can be very important for education with PBS and videos, and the news. I have learned a lot through the PBS show Frontline, as pictures are worth 1000 words. I don't believe in having the kids have personal TVs. That's just affluenza at work, in my opinion.

Darshani

edited to add a few more comments:

My dd watched some of the Baby Einstein videos from a very young age and we were grateful for the distraction they offered when nothing else would calm her down. She loves those videos and has learned a lot from them, and no signs of any brain damage (she's actually advanced for her age). I never sat her there for hours at a time, and I never let her sit too close. We have a small collection of carefully selected videos and she gets to watch 2 a day (total of one hour) and that's it. We have a few Sesame Street videos (like them better than the TV show), 1 Blues Clues, 2 Wiggles, 1 Teletubbies that I taped off TV, 3 Baby Einstein ones (both Baby Dolittles and the Baby Mozart), and 2 Raffi tapes. Also enjoys The Sound of Music with her mommy!

I wanted to share that I grew up in a conservative household and we didn't have a TV until I was 9 years old. I never got addicted to it even after I had umlimited access to it. I was a bookworm and would have rather read a book than waste time with TV. I enjoyed PBS from the beginning. I credit it with teaching me a lot, and stimulating my imagination and interest in the world around me, esp. the nature shows. I share a similar view of radio, preferring NPR to anything else.


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## khrisday (Mar 18, 2002)

Could someone please post an article, link or name of printed research paper which containe information about this?


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## cumulus (Jul 17, 2002)

H:

I posted a number of quotes with links on another thread (How to get TV turned off?):

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...ght=television

Here's something in addition

A Children's Hospital Medical Center of Cincinnati study shows that one of every four children less than three years old may be watching at least three hours of television each weekday. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends no TV at all for children under two and no more than two hours a day for older children. Recent studies have shown that school-age children who watch less television are less aggressive and have less body fat regardless of programming," says Robert S. Kahn, M.D the study's senior author. Also, children who watch at least three hours of TV a day at age two are more than twice as likely as other children to watch at least three hours a day at age six.

"Television has changed the American child from an irresistible force to an immovable object." ~ Laurence J. Peter


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## HotMama (Oct 26, 2002)

I know what you mean, Elismama. We will be visiting family later this month and there are a bunch of TVs and they are always on.







: Any clues for dealing with this?
We've always turned them off if no one is in the room, but they are still sqwalking a lot of the time. And they wonder why we are always going places instead of just hanging out!


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## MamaMae (Nov 26, 2001)

DH and I both enjoy movies, so we do have a TV, but it's in a seperate room, away from our "living space". So whenever we want to watch a movie, we watch it in the guest room after DS has fallen asleep.

At almost 2 years old, I have no intentions of letting DS watch TV anytime soon. Whenever we're at family's homes with the TV on, I just ask them to turn it off. There have been a few football games (eeek!!) at my in-laws that have been impossible to turn off...and he's talked about "ootball" ever since. Yuck.

As for the homeschooling questions, we also plan on unschooling, and I really don't see our need/desire for television increasing much. I'm not sure I think all those "educational" videos are all that educational, really. "The Plug-In Drug" was a great book for DH and I to read, as it solidified a lot of what we thought about TV and children before. Especially, the whole "content" issue....that that's not really the issue at all. It doesn't matter "what" they're watching, it matters "how" they're watching and what happens physiologically when they are watching. I'd definitely reccomend the book if you haven't checked it out, the revised edition has quite a bit of info on computers and video games as well.


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## MysticHealerMom (Oct 7, 2002)

Here's the AAP policy frogertgrl mentioned...

http://www.aap.org/policy/re9911.html


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## Sahara (Nov 28, 2001)

DS is 20 months old and has recently discovered TV. We don't have cable, and get 4 channels. DH and I watch 3-4 hours a week, but keep it off until DS goes to bed. We do watch CBS Sunday Morning show in front of him, but he stays engaged in his own play, until the end when they have the nature/animal shots.

We plan on regulating his viewing extensively, and won't ever have cable/sattelite. I figure if there's anything out there I want him to see, I can rent or buy it. I bought 3 Wiggles videos when he was sick a few weeks ago, and he has seen those a few times but after reading this thread and what happened to us last week, we are putting them away for now.

DS was over-exposed to childrens videos last week while we were visiting my family, and we couldn't get him away from the TV. Even when he was obviously restless and bored, he was still plugged in and threw a fit when we turned it off or tried to get him involved in something else. We sat with him and talked with him while he was watching, and he would point stuff out to us and make comments, but he was still plugged in. He's been asking for the videos ever since we've been home (Bear in the Big Blue House and Baby Einstein neighborhood animals video.) We thought he might self-regulate and get bored with it, but we ended up having to set limits after 3 days of obsession.

I hadn't realized it was actually physically damaging to his brain. I read 'The Magical Child' a few years ago, and vaguely remembered why toddlers shouldn't view TV, but I didn't know there was an actual study showing damage to the brain!

I think I tend to be overly controlling about what my DS is exposed to, most of the moms I know are a lot more laid back about things like TV and nutrition. In the end, I don't know how much difference it will make. I haven't heard of any studies that show adults raised AP, sans-TV, eating wholefoods are better off, but I'm sticking with the no TV for now.


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## Chi-Chi Mama (Mar 13, 2002)

I'm trying to talk dh into "replacing" tv with a chistmas tree... put the tv in the closet and see how we like it for a little while.

so far, he doesn't like the idea









I'm guilty of watching it once in a while out of 'boredom' or sometimes watch it while nursing dd (at night while she's sleeping only - lately, she lives to nurse for about 45 mins after falling asleep and wakes up if I get up)

She's barely over a year old, and I really would like to keep tv-watching to random movies when she gets older.

it's a work-in-progress for us


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## sagewinna (Nov 19, 2001)

We have a tv, in an amoir that is closed.

DH and I watch 3 hours a week, specific shows, after the kids are asleep.

The kids only watch it when we rent a movie for the family, which happens once every few months.

At my parents house, we all watched the Thanksgiving parade and the dog show...

I object to the programs, I object to the commercialism, it just isn't something we feel is necessary in our home.


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## Elismama (Jan 2, 2002)

Some folks asked for links. Here are two I found on brain development:

http://www.limitv.org/preschool.htm

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/chm98nws.htm

-jeanie


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## Chi-Chi Mama (Mar 13, 2002)

thanks, Jeanie!!!

I'm printing the articles right now and making copies for dh and my parents


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## Kylix (May 3, 2002)

What a great thread this is turning out to be.







atsselfonback

I love all the different perspectives. Keep em coming. I want to hear from everyone!

Right now, I feel like tv the first few years of life really yields no advantage for the child--maybe for the parent though. I really want to keep tv out of the program for the first three or so years of life for my future kids. Might be doable with the first child but don't know about later children. And Khrisday (I think) made a good point, if I think the show is so good that I want my kids to see it, I can always go out and buy or rent it. The idea of going tv free still intrigues me. No regulation at all however does not. I just don't want my kids sitting around and watching tv all day. I want them playing outdoors, dancing and singing to music, painting and drawing, fiddling around in the kitchen with me, playing make believe with each other, having friends over....DOING not watching. I think watching has its place though but I feel like I can get that other places than straight cable television, KWIM?

Thanks again for all the great posts...Please carry on.
Kylix


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

I didn't vote because we don't really fit in the categories.

We don't have a TV, but our kids do watch some TV programs through our computer. They are small yet, so we have full control over what they watch. They watch a couple of different movies that we have on our computer or as DVDs, plus just a couple of TV shows (all Playhouse Disney shows - Rollie Pollie Ollie is our favorite).

They probably average about an hour of TV or movie per day. I personally don't think that is too much at all. My just-turned-1yo probably only pays attention to the TV for 5 or so of those minutes (he's into exploring and not too enamored with the TV unless it's playing some music he thinks is cool -- then he'll stop and watch and dance for a while).


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## mingber (Nov 4, 2002)

We have 2 TVs both with Satellite (thanks to DH's addiction to TV). DD watches lots of Disney, PBS, and Noggin, and movies on the VCR (Winnie the Pooh, Wiggles, certain Disney) (she scares easily)- but nothing else. No news, no sitcomes, etc. That is the rule. When DD is in the room, only her stuff is allowed on TV. DS is just starting to watch TV (he is 13 months), but doesn't really pay attention. I never have time to watch TV anymore since having kids. I don't think I have watched anything other than kiddy shows for 4 years.
I am sorry to say, that I use it as wind down time for DD or babysitting so I can get some things done without her constant nag for attention. She is hyper active, so it really helps her when she zones out. I do regulate the amount she watches though.

On the home schooling thing, I have no comment. We both work full time outside the home, so it's not an option for us, unfortunately. DD will go to a private Day school in Sept for Kindergarten though. No public school for my kids!!! I think that is the best choice I can make for them. Comprimise (sp?).


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## Curly Locks (Oct 21, 2002)

I quit watching tv in May (except for my yoga videos). I was a lifelong tv fan and dh still watches about 10-15 hours a week. My reasons were the same as Hilary's. It's easier not to get ds hooked on it in the first place and I am against the marketing practices (beer commercials, junkfood, sex sells marketing ideas, and double standards for men and woman, mass consumerism, materialism as the norm, etc.) to my family. I'd be happy to sell the tv, but I can't convince dh of it.


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## m2four (Nov 11, 2002)

Hi! I'm completely new here and don't know how much i'll be able to post - but this is the first board i landed on, so i'm jumping right in LOL.

I'm jessica dm to Amber 9 yr, Ian 4 yrs and Rachael 1 yr. We are probably what would most would call radical unschoolers and lovin' it!

as for the tv - we have one and we all regulate ourselves. we don't have cable, primarily for financial reasons, but also because i am concerned that it would eat up too much family time - but i'm sure someday we will get it







.

Everyone seems to go through periods of more or less tv watching. Very, very rarely will someone take watching tv over doing some sort of activity - so if i have issues w/ how much tv is being watched i come up w/ something better.

The other thing - since we are un/homeschoolers watching several hrs of tv isn't a huge chunk of the day. FI if a child is in school/getting ready for/going to and from for 9 hrs, activities/after school care for 2 hrs has and 1 hr of homework and sleeps for 9 hrs - well that only leaves 3 hrs of "free" time and if 2 of that is spent watching tv i can imagine that much of the other hr is doing "life" activities such as eating, brushing teeth, etc.

But a un/homeschooled kid sleeps for 9 hrs has 2 hrs of activities and then has *13* hrs to do whatever. so if 2 or 3 or 4 of those hrs are tv - well there is 9-11 hrs where they are learning and playing and "life" activities and being w/ family etc, etc,

my .02









glad to meet everyone!

jessica


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## Teensy (Feb 22, 2002)

Before I had children, I had this fantasy that they would almost never watch TV because they would be too busy with better activities- looking at books, coloring, building with blocks, etc.

Well, now that I have a very active (wild!) three year old son, as well as a one year old son, I find TV to be a very helpful tool to help DS #1 wind down and keep him occupied when I can't give him my full attention. He doesn't take naps anymore so I don't get a break to get things done. If I can't give him my full attention (I'm taking a shower, unloading groceries, cooking dinner, etc.), he might sit and watch a TV show. Without the distraction of TV, he'll rip pages out of books, color on the walls and furniture, wreck havoc - I am likely to find him swinging from the chandelier.

I figure after a full day of playing outdoors (2 hours), arts and crafts (2 hours), reading books (1 hour), playing indoors (4 hours), eating, bathing, getting dressed (2 hours) - unwinding by watching a TV program is not going to hurt DS.

He mostly watches shows on PBS - Sesame Street, Dooley, Barney, Dragontales, Sagwa, and Plaza Sesamo. It is entertainment - I don't expect him to learn from the shows - but sometimes he does learn a new song or lesson and that's always nice. I don't expect him to learn Spanish from watching Plaza Sesamo, but I figure hearing the language (I can only speak English, and some days I don't feel too competent at that!) won't hurt him. I also sometimes use Sesame Street or Dooley as a jumping off point for the letter or color of the day which we then incorprate into our routines.

We also have a Baby Mozart video - DS #2 loved it. He would be screaming at night, inconsolable, not wanting to nurse or be rocked - but I'd pop in the video and at the sound of Julie Clark's voice he would immediately quiet down and turn to watch. It was almost a little frightening, but I was VERY thankful to own that video.

Tanya

BTW - Amanda's Mom - Do you mean The Simpsons as in Bart, Lisa, Homer, Maggie and Marge? Or is there a different Simpsons TV show you allow your daughter to watch? I love the Simpsons myself, but was surprised to see it listed for a two year old to watch. Just curious.


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## artemesia (Nov 27, 2001)

I haven't owned a tv in over a dozen years (though we did go through a brief period where people kept giving us tvs. They though we were poor and deprived, ironic since at the time dh and I were making very good money). Anyway, no I do not miss it one tiny bit. In fact, I am perpetually amazed that anyone has time to watch tv.
On the few occaisions that I have been at soemone's house and they have the tv on, I must say what I see really freaks me out. I think part of it is that I am not inundated with the stuff all the time, and partly because being in philosophy I tend to think in a highly critical, analytical way. From this perspective, most of the commercials I see are downright creepy, especially the ones for drugs.


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## lucina3 (Jun 25, 2002)

Ironically enough... in the last few days Dh and I have figured out we need to cancel cable... so we'd still have a tv and vcr for the videos we have but I guess I'll have to change my answer because our viewing will go waaaaaaay down!


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## HotMama (Oct 26, 2002)

Artemesia, I feel the same way. I don't see it much and when I do I am very disturbed - it feels like condescending mind control or something.


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## brookelynnp (Jan 1, 2002)

I knew if I kept looking hard enough this topic would come up and my questions would be addressed. My ds now 27mo. has had limited tv time up until I had terrible morning sickness and could not deal with life. But you bet as soon as I could function I pulled the plug again. Problem is now he asks to watch a few selected programs daily. Sometimes I just feel I am setting myself up for problems by saying NO all the time so now we have addapted the two shows per morning routine and then it is off for the day no arguments about it. Some days now that it has gotten cold especially we are at a loss for creative things to do and I just feel like a failure when I pop in a video. Any suggestions out there? We do finger painting, glueing projects, read all the time, play make believe and even play baseball, hockey and football but still it is not enough to always fill up our days. Now that I am prego I am also more apt to be tired too. We do get a 2 hour daily nap.

Also what is this info about tv before 2 affecting the brain? I have never heard of this. It really soudns scary to me. well gotta go, time for the next project of the day.


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## frodo (Nov 3, 2002)

there wasn't an "other", so i had to vote as close to what we have. we do not have a TV that can recieve any form of broadcast signals. when my ex-husband left, i told him to take the #@*&ing thing with him & have been blissfully media-deprived ever since.

what we _*do*_ have is an ancient computer monitor that we've got hooked up to a dvd player so that i can still have _The Princess Bride_ (which is duct tape for the soul) on days when i *really* need it!

we homeschool, but we're lacto-ove vegetarian - although i don't know how long that will last because i suspect ds may have a problem with dairy. but to be honest, there's so much _really_ important stuff to do - you know, urgent things like blowing soap bubbles off of the side of the balcony so the yuppies having lunch at the sports bar below will have something to giggle at, building a miniature snowman & seeing howlong he lasts removed from his natural habitat into an artificial environment (our freezer), and dressing up in wizard costumes and walking down monroe avenue on an adventuresome quest to the Unseen University which appears as a mere public library to uninitiates (and you'd really never know that the librarian is really an orangutan), you know, important things like that - that it honestly never even occurs to us to _watch_ television. i don't think we'd ever manage to find the time to just sit there and stare at a stupid glass-and-plastic box for an hour.

of course, our whole family are total *nerds* by mainstream pop-culture standards, but, like, who cares about that?


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## frogertgrl (Nov 28, 2002)

I do believe you are my new shero, Frodo.

I haven't been that swept away by something I read in about a month!

Thank you for your words here...I wanna be like you for my children.


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## Baudelaire (Aug 2, 2002)

My dh and I feel fairly differently about the television. I view it as a generally useless-to-pernicious influence, particularly commercial television, but he's more of a tv addict than I am. He takes care of our dd at home, and I'm fairly sure he lets her watch more television than I would.







I'm very glad to have found those AAP articles!

Overall, I've really limited the amout of "screen" my dd, almost 2, watches. Based on what the AAP said about the overstimulation effect of rapidly shifting angles, eye-catching graphics, et cetera, I have little objection to videos that reproduce what the eye can see -- that is, simple format, "boring" camerawork, no bells and whistles. I have to say something in favor of the We Sign series of videos and the affiliated Say, Sing, and Sign series. The camerawork is essentially what you would see if you were sitting in a classroom -- one person signing to music (nursery rhymes, patriotic songs, et cetera). Partly because of the static, constant, unvarying nature of this presentation, my dd has picked up a great deal of ASL, as have my husband and I.

However, I really have my doubts about the value of such soi-disant "educational" programs as "Sesame Street." I think I realized that "SS" teaches nothing when I caught it in Spanish, a language I only have taken for one year. I couldn't understand a ^&%^ing thing those Muppets were saying...and then in dawned on me: NEITHER CAN A BABY.







Hey, I'd say I have even more comprehension of Spanish than your average two-year-old does of English, and it all seemed like a chaotic, disorganized jumble. In short, the answer to the question, "Can you tell me how to get to Sesame Street?" is a solid NO.


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## Elismama (Jan 2, 2002)

I've noticed on this thread and several others that people keep mentioning "brain damage." As in, my kid watches tv and is not brain damaged. I wanted to clarify. I don't think anyone is claiming that tv causes brain damage. I think the concern is that the brain is developing so much in the early years, synapses are forming and connections between different parts of the brain are created. The way babies spend their days effect the way the brain is wired. Television has been shown to alter the way the brain is wired- not to cause brain damage. My concern is that we cannot tell what affect this has in the short run, it will only become apparent in the long run.

I worry about the huge jump in ADHD cases in schools- could this be linked to increased tv watching, increase in processed foods, a decrease in down time/unscheduled time for kids, etc.

Anyway- perhaps this is fodder for a new thread, just wanted to clarify a point that was bugging me.

-jeanie

Note- I am by no means an expert on development or the human brain. The above is based on reading different studies and development books and may not be technically correct- just my synthesis of what I have read.


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## Sahara (Nov 28, 2001)

That was probably my fault, I think I used the word damage in my post. I think that if watching television alters brain development from the way it happens without interference, that's sort of like damage. But it's certainly not the same as debilitaing brain damage caused by trauma to the head. And you're right, there's no long term studies on what the effects actually are. Good point!


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## mamato2boys (Nov 22, 2002)

We haven't had cable in years (in fact the only time we did have it we lived in an apartment where it was included in the rent) and we recently moved our only TV to our room in order to limit the amount of time that we all watch.

Currently my son, who's 5, watches Sesame Street--so I can get our 8mo up and ready for the day with minimal interruptions--I need that in the AM to keep me sane! He also watches a half hour of PBS in the afternoon--whatever show he chooses, but it has to be on PBS.

MY husband is a Simpsons addict, so the two of them watch that also.

Right after Ethan was born I found that I was using the TV way too much as a way to get things done, while keeping Holden occupied. This compromise seems to work well for us.


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## mingber (Nov 4, 2002)

As I have previously stated - I use the TV for my DD so I can get things done also, but she got a leappad for Chanuakah and now she uses that a whole lot more than she has been watching TV. YEAH! It has a volume control so it's great and somewhat eduational. This has helped to limit the TV.
My DH is still addicted and I keep telling him I want to throw it out - it's expensive too - the Satellite he insists on having, but he refuses. Another battle won by DH - ok, they are few and far between. HAHAHA


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

We don't let our dd (almost a year old) watch any TV... BUT... she has two videos we let her watch a couple times a week. We are raising her bilingual & her minority language is spoken by dh ONLY (no community in the area that speaks the ml). She has no other *live* exposure to the language. As a compromise, we got her 2 vidoes in the minority language to give her some more exposure. Of course we also have books (which dh reads) and a couple of music/poem CD's we listen to, but other than that, the videos are her only source outside of dh. She loves the videos and watches them intently for up to 15 minutes or so (they are 30 minutes long), then goes about her play. It's a great exposure to the language and particularly, the culture. I am very anti-TV and as for myself, I watch only a few hours a week, usually recorded and watched while dd is alseep. Dh watches only C-Span and PBS news shows, so I don't feel bad if dd is around while he is watching. I'm determined to NOT have a TV junkie and will always limit any exposure. As it is, I don't feel great about letting her watch even an hour or so a week of her Armenian videos, but like I said... it's a compromise for her bilingualism.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

I am concerned about the affect TV has on a child's cognitive development.. so we got rid of the TV.

I do not plan to let DS watch until he is over two. And then it will be videos we choose for him... until he is older.

There was a TV in our hotel room during a recent vacation.. and DS kept wanting to go over and touch it when it was on.. it was a huge distraction and made me feel even better about our choice.

I have a tiny black and white portable in the closet in case of some emergency.. and we do plan to get a portable DVD player to watch movies on when DS is asleep.

But for now we are TV free and I am really enjoying it. I really hated the sound of the jabbering thing while we were on vacation.

And I WORK in TV (lol). But what I do is definitely for adults, not kids. I wouldn't want any young kids to watch TV news.


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## jordmoder (Nov 20, 2001)

oh, this is a big bone of contention between myself and DH!!

I grew up in a virtally TV-free home - we had one, but weren't allowed to watch practically anything. I don't remember being too upset by that, even as a teenager. I didn't have a TV in my home for more than 10 years. I married a TV junkie... although to be honest, he really only watches badf movies (boy-type action things) and CNN.

Our 3 year old DS didn't see much TV at all before he was 2. Now that he's 3, I find it waaaay too easy to let him watch too much PBS. I feel even PBS is time spent away from doing important kid stuff.

And even though I am really frustrated! at my DH for not paying more attention, sometimes he will turn the TV on while I'm putting our 7 month old to sleep, and then walk away to the computer without turning it off, and DS has seen some awful things that he has gotten very concerned and scared about (as he should). Thank goodness is is very open to talking about things that concern him and I can help him re-align his world, so to speak.

We're going to be moving in a few months, and I have already completely made up my mind that the TV will be in a remote location from our main living/hang out area.

Whoa - I wrote a book! But I have very strong feelings about this. BTW, both my sisters are complete and total TV addicts - the kind where the TV is on all the time, white noise kind of thing. Blows my mind.

Barbara


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Wow... I had a bad feeling about too much TV, so I'm glad to see the AAP article that backs it up!!

Dd never watched TV until after she was a year old. After that it was the occassional Veggie Tales. Then I brought a couple episodes home from work (library) and dh just started putting them in all the time!









well, about two weeks ago I put my foot down and told dh this had to stop. I will let her watch 2 shows/day and that's it. Sometimes we don't watch any.

We only have a TV, VCR and DVD player: no cable/satellite.

Dh grew up with the TV on all the time whether anyone was watching it or not.


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

I allow DD, who's three, to watch some shows on our public access channel. We also let her fall asleep to a video for naps and bedtime. I am working really hard to break her of that habit; it started when she was two because she could only fall asleep if my DH or I was sleeping with her. After two years of absolutely no couple time (literally!), we started using a video as a scapegoat so we could spend some time together.
My daughter only watches a show on PBS in the morning; when I stumble out of bed at seven, I literally cannot even think what my name is







: I let her watch Clifford or Dragon Tales so I can make coffee and breakfast while my seven month old plays on the floor with his toys. Then the t.v. goes off for the rest of the day.


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## sp53 (Feb 5, 2002)

Well, it was a hard decision to post our story but again it was so hard to suppress curiosity to find out if we are really that minority. Basically we don't control TV watching at all. It is not that we thought it is good for my 18-mth-old ds but because that's what we've been doing before ds was born. Turning the TV at around 5:30PM and keeping it up until we go to bed at around 12PM became a kind of habit for all of us, mostly watching sports and soap opera. Even if we knew we should cut, we just didn't take any serious action. During daytime while my mom is caring ds (dh and I both work fulltime), he is watching about 1-2 hrs of cartoon and/or videos (incl. Baby Einstein). After 5:30PM, he is playing by himself or with us, but occasionally staring TV. Are we the only ones? I feel so guilty and now printing those articles to show to dh.

Once we thought about moving TV to basement but one of the reasons to keep it in living room was because of my mom (we live in the same house). After spending all day caring for my ds, she is enjoying sitting on the sofa and watching tv and I didn't want take that away from her. Of course she and my father have their own TV but my father goes to work at 11PM and sleeps until 10:30PM so watching her own TV is not an option.

Timmy's Mom.


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## Envision (Dec 6, 2002)

Hi Sp53 and everyone...
I just read some of the posts and am intruiged and have some things to think about.

I know we watch too much tv and there are moments when all of a sudden I will just turn it off in the middle of a program because the noise is so annoying...
During the day, ds watches TVO (canadian) which has no commercials and is completely non-violent.
He has a wiggles video that he loves and actually encouraged him to start dancing (he's very reserved...)
and he watches stuart little 2. He loves that cat and laughs each time he sees him...cute.
Anyway, we do tend to have the tv on at night and after reading these posts I think I will talk to dh about how to cut down..
I think for us it's just the wind down and doing some "no-brain" activity...even before ds is sleeping...so I guess we are being unfair to him.
I don't think that I would ever take his wiggles away because to me I just see that as songs that people are dancing too...there is no real story and I don't see it much different than having the wiggles cd playing...he can just see dancing going on...

I think that if he was in a vegative state while watching the tube then I would really concern myself... and as far as his brain function, at 17mths he will sit with a book on his own and babble a story to himself and then come and bring the book to me...
At this point I feel like there are still some neurons working in there!!

We watched tv while we were kids and most of it I would not allow my ds to watch now, like bugs bunny and the such...but as I got older I felt really left out because there were some shows on that we were not allowed to watch that everyone else did...not that that is a reason to allow your child to watch something, I am just saying that tv is a big part of many people's lives and I think more so for kids in a mainstream school environment.

As one poster said, it's a tool and it can be bad but doesn't have to be.

Oils


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## member234098 (Aug 3, 2002)

Dear Parents:

I never wanted a television; but dh was in the electronics business...

When dd was boen I never turned on the television. WAtching television was what dh did.

When ds was born, the TV became the babysitter so I could get things done or rest.

Then videos and videogames came out. There was more than just tv to avoid.

I rationed their attention on these things. I tried to make sure they only watched appropriate, long, full length movies that stretched their attention span. I object to short cartoons w/commercial breaks.

I had a teacher in a parenting group tell us that videogames were good for hand/eye coordination. (hogwash) I think it is a huge wast of precious time.

HOwever just sitting and being passively entertained is very bad for children and their learning abilities. I wish that I had stood my line and not allowed any tv in our home. It may have been difficult in some ways, but rewarding in others that I'll never know.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by miriam_
*I wish that I had stood my line and not allowed any tv in our home. It may have been difficult in some ways, but rewarding in others that I'll never know.*
That's what I'm afraid of... I need to stand my ground! I'm just SO glad we don't have cable or satellite. The only videos/DVD she can watch are the ones I bring into the home!


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## adb252001 (Nov 19, 2002)

People I know with babes the same age as ours (9 months) talk about their babes watching videos. It makes me crazy. Why does a 9 month old need to watch a video. At first I thought our babe was weird cuz she never paid attention to the t.v. I put on Baby Mozart and she could have cared less. So no t.v. for a long time.

I feel some programs could be educational. Like PBS did this thing where they took 21st century families and put them "in" the 18th century. Very interesting. I was addicted to it like it was a soap opera. Discovery and Animal Planet also have good programs. But, as far as watching just for something to do? No Thanks. I guess the addiction part is part of what is bad.







:


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I'm still waiting for this first baby to make his or her appearance.

Why we have no TV: I was in grad school trying to finish my PhD and found myself addictively watching. My dh (then boyfriend) has the same issue. Our roommates (we were not living together then) moved out and took their TVs with them. We moved in together and decided not to get another set. That was about 5 years ago. He's still in grad school and not having a TV is a great thing for him.

We still have some issues around our obsessive computer use!

It seems like it might be a good thing not to buy a new TV when we have a baby in the house. It's true that we are not the perfect consumers of only high, enlightened culture! But we do have a lot more time to read our books and magazines, exercise, hang out with our friends, pet the cat, sleep, clean the house, etc. since we haven't had a TV. It's not that I think that TV is bad, in fact I like to watch TV. It's just that I would like the baby to have more time and energy for those other things, too.

Plus the one child I know who was raised with no TV had an amazing attention span for story books when he came to our house! I used to read him chapter books when he was four and five years old and came over on Saturday. And he is a very active kid when he's not listening to a story! Wow, I miss having him around since his family moved away. I hope my child will have that kind of attention span for stories, I love reading stories with kids. Ooooh, another bonus to having this baby!


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

What is POC?


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

POC=People of Color

I didn't notice this in the original post--the widespread racist portrayals of people of color on TV is one of the actual bad things about it. I sort of forget about the actual badness of most TV since I don't watch it most of the time, and only remember Star Trek with fondness. But actual negative content is a big problem.


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## CollegeMama (Oct 31, 2002)

I'm also a TV addict. You all have given me something to think about. I'm glad someone corrected the "brain damage" remark though, because I didn't find any evidence of that in those links that were posted. It seemed to me that much of the information was purely speculatory IMO.
However, I do think that I will be turning off that TV tonight when I get home though and really try to limit the amount that I watch, thereby reducing the amount DS watches. He's only 5 months now, and I only use the Baby Mozart video now and then to get things done, but I do notice him watching what I watch sometimes.
Sadly, our habit is to turn it on as soon as we get home and leave it on all day. I've gotten so used to the constant stream of noise, that I hardly notice it anymore and that's NOT GOOD.
No wonder I have so much tension in my life, there's no silence!

Marcy


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## Curly Locks (Oct 21, 2002)

Hi! I'm glad to see this thread is still going. It makes me feel so happy b/c I think TV is a huge issue for me. There's another thread that was started about TV and there's some similar questions being asked. Here's the link if you want to join in or just see it: http://216.92.20.151/discussions/sho...944#post369944


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## momea (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Kylix_
*At the same time, I think that by regulating tv you make it a forbidden fruit and I have heard all the arguments for allowing the child to get his or her fill and thus they will come to regulate tv on their own.*
I don't think this is so because I think tv is addictive. Yes, kids do get bored of it - but can't we all remember sitting in front of the tv and thinking "I don't want to be doing this but there is nothing else to do" - even if there are plenty of things that can and should be done? What do you all think?


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## Curly Locks (Oct 21, 2002)

I don't know if these Mothering TV article links have been mentioned on this thread, but I will post them anyway for those who want to further their education in why TV is not good for children, or anyone IMHO.

http://www.mothering.com/10-0-0/html...again107.shtml
http://www.mothering.com/10-0-0/html...offtv107.shtml
http://www.mothering.com/12-0-0/html.../tv-life.shtml


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## BishkekMama (Nov 1, 2002)

My dd didn't watch television until she was 2 1/2. Dh had to move out here before us, so I got stuck for 42 days taking care of dd and eventually gave into allowing her 30 mins of extremely carefully-selected cartoons. Since we've been here she has watched this tape I made + a little animated video done by the BBC. She has learned some songs from these. The rule is: the minute she seems to lose interest, the tv is turned off (first I ask: Are you done with the television? 9 times out of 10 she will say yes.). She never complains. This is happening sooner and sooner into the video, so I plan on phasing them out completely. I may allow her to start watching again when she's older. Dh and I watch the news (we didn't bring films, so at the moment there's nothing else). I will admit, however, that I have been watching the news a LOT since we got here (due to isolation, heavy snow, etc.).









"My children will feel left out" "It will be like a forbidden fruit"
Hopefully we'll surround ourselves with like-minded parents and children. I believe our children will naturally attract the friendship of children like themselves. And just like our children will not be particularly attracted to sweets and junk food, our children will not feel any particular attraction to sitting in front of the tube.

My question is: How can we spread the word? Very few people know of the AAP's recommendations (which I think should also be a part of the WHO's recommendations - this is a worldwide problem now). Should we write letters to manufacturers? Retailers? I think we need to lower consumer demand. But how? Write letters to magazines? Web sites?


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## ebethmom (Jan 29, 2002)

Hi - no time to read all of the posts here right now, but this is an issue in our lives right now.

Ds is 17 months, and I didn't want him watching TV at all. I'm SO sorry that I gave in. He is *obsessed* with Jay Jay the Jet Plane. It's only a half hour show, but he got videos for Christmas. And we let him watch them.









It only took one time for him to figure out that Jay Jay is in the VCR box.

All we hear now is Ja Ja, Ja Ja. . .

We're going out of town this week, so no TV.

I'm not looking for a solution just yet - just wanted to chime in.


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## Curly Locks (Oct 21, 2002)

Bishkek~I think the best way to spread the word is through our actions and by letting others see how you are living your life...that there are other options out there. That is the best way I know of. I'm grateful for everyone's thoughts here. There's a thread on the "Books, Media, Music" that is called "I unplugged my TV" and it is very cool!" I am unplugging my TV and computer next week for seven days. I am a little scared about the computer part, but I won't miss the TV one bit since I gave that up six months ago!


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## MangoMamma (May 14, 2002)

We have a television but we don't turn it on. We turned it off in Augustb officially. I have an 18 mo DD and am a SAHM. However, I have been getting so bored and lonely lately. We try to go to drop-ins but lately find ouselves inside for such a long periods. What do you do to amuse yourself when you don't want to watch TV.


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

I voted we have a TV (only one for the whole family) but regulate dd tv viewing. Her dad doesn't though and I know she has watched things I would prefer she wouldn't. BUT when dd and I were on our own we didn't have a TV. When my soon to be dh moved in last March, he begged me. He is a huge hockey and college football fan and really wanted to watch the games. I said okay, set up ground rules and dd didn't really care about the TV. However, she has become interested in a couple shows on th N network. Like Pete and Pete, Being Eve and A Walk in Your Shoes. She also loves Degrassi But most of the time it is still a little too old for her. I like th N because there are not commercials.

Soon to be DH and I are going to TTC this fall and I think that the TV might have to leave for a couple years after baby is born.


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

double post due to that stupid error thing...again


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## KristiMom (Jan 7, 2003)

MangoMama- I was a bit surprised to hear that you were bored without the TV. How long have you been with out it? Really the things I am doing I am doing becasue I want to, not because I am bored. First I make sure the essentials are done:

Kitchen clean?
Laundry done?
Vaccumming done?
Bathroom clean?

Then I may
Read a book
read a newspaper
Sleep when the kid sleeps (I love naps as 2 kids like to wake me up in the middle of the night)
knit
garden
make a really cool dinner
talk to cool moms and dads on the Mothering site.
Take a class on something you've always wanted to do
call a friend
write an artical for the local newspaper opinion page

Try running your home as if you did home day care.7-9 play with the kids and have breakfast
9-10 outside time and snack......yes, go outside even if its cold, just bundle up and especially go outside if it snows!
10-12 have music time with the kids, coloring ect.
12- lunch
after lunch nap

afternoons you could take him and visit a friend, the mall swimming or anything that sounds fun!

You've probably condsidered these things and already do many of them but I thought I would brain storm and see if anything helped!


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Oooh! What to do!







inky

I work 30 hrs/wk, so most of my not working time is spent cleaning house, reading my email, and cooking/cleaning up the mess.

When I'm all caught up I







to read a book (I work at a library, LOL) or bake. Cookies, cakes, candy, bread. I'm an okay cook, but I love baking.

Plus, there's nothing like making cookies for your family and enjoying their sighs of enjoyment! LOL


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

I was beginning to let my 2 yr old watch Sesame St. He quickly got addicted. Then one day I was at the book store and picked up Jane Healy's book ENDANGERED MINDS: WHY CHILDREN DON'T THINK AND WHAT YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

Basically, educator from every grade level around the country has seen basic attention span and problem solving skills PLUMMET in this country over the past 30 yrs. According to them (she talked to numerous teachers around the country and scientists) they have had to "dumb down" the material... offer material to their students that were meant for younger students.

Why? Healy surmises that TV watch actually SHAPES the brain (still developing in the formative years). Actually, all experience shapes the brain... but TV watching is not very good for the things we humans are meant to do... reason, etc...

My son longer watches TV, but DH & I watch movies at night on TiVO or DVDs.

If you care at all about TV in your family and how they could be affecting learning, please read this book.


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

I know this isn't a "no TV for kids under 2" thread, but just wanted to share the following:

The AAP has reviewed the issue and is advising against TV for babies under 2.
http://www.aap.org/family/tv1.htm
I read a very interesting article in theApril 2000 issue of "American Baby" and I kept the issue. Here are some excerpts from that article.

·Doctors fear that prolonged exposure to the tube could impair babies' vision, hearing and attention span.

·"The fact that television's a good babysitter is not enough of a justification for using it when a TV habit might make it more difficult for a child to learn later on," asserts educational psychologist Jane Healy, PhD, author of Endangered Minds: Why Children Don't Think - and what We can Do about it (1999)

·Although there is little research on television's direct impact on a baby's neural growth, we do know that, in a baby under 2, parts of the brain are going through what's called "synaptic exuburance," during which there are twice as many synpases in the cerebral cortex as there were during adulthood. Babies are absoring the world at warp speed, and this is the most critical period for language and visual development. Also, at around 18 months, the front right part of the baby's brain - which controls the way he relates to other people - hits a vital developmental period.

·"Television can't really be used as downtime for babies because it's full of overwhelming sounds and flashing colors," says Susan Johnson, MD a behavioral and developmental pediatrician. "Babies are born with eyes developed to look at the human face, so downtime for them means quiet, calm snuggling with their mother or father." Dr. J suggests, let your baby lie on a blanket and watch light stream into a room, or sit her outside where she can take in the sights and smells of the outdoors.

·Contrary to parents' hopes or beliefs that television can actually teach kids somethings, such as the alphabet or new vocabulary words, most experts say that kids under 2 get so absorbed in the visual stimulation of the TV that they tune out most of the words entirely.

·Lise Eliot, PhD, author of What's Going on in There? How the Brain and Mind Develop in the First Five Years of Life(1999), cites a study in which pediatricians regularly placed the hearing children of deaf parents in front of "Sesame Street" to see whether they'd learn to speak. They didn't.

·"Babies learn language by talking to real, live people." Dr. Eliot says. "Research shows that babies will listen to a television but won't process the noises at the same level as if someone where speaking to them." So if you are counting along with the television character, your child may begin to pick up numbers, but he probably won't learn them from the show alone.

·In addition, some experts feel that the poor sound quality coming from a television may actually impair a child's hearing if he's around it long enough.

·"Listening to noises kept on one basic plane--at the same volume level and coming from just one source -isn't a good way to get sound." says Dr. Johnson. "In nature, sound is coming from all around. But with TV, children learn to turn off background noises. Then later on, when they're away from the television, it can be harder for them to tell where sounds are coming from."

·Also, Dr. J says, because television is just a stationary box, young children aren't getting vital eye exercise when they watch it. While staring at the flat, two-dimensional screen, they're pulled away from three-dimensional activities.

·Skipping out on those diversions is a critical loss, since such play can help a child's 3D vision, which is maturing up until the age of 4, says Dr. Johnson.

·"When people have had eye surgery, they're told to watch TV because it fixes their eyeball in one place so it can heal. But if you show television often to a child too young to read, the growth of the eyeball can be distorted. All of the sudden, he'll go to the first grade and be asked to read something left to right, and his eyes will feel fatigued."

·A baby's eyes become locked to the screen because the images change every five or six seconds and require constant attention. Which leads to another problem: "If they're watching rapidly changing images, I don't think (babies) can process them quickly enough. We may be miswiring their attention systems." says Dr. Eliot.

·If a baby becomes accustomed to seeing a continual stream of action, then when she's not watching TV, her eyes might jump around the room to catch the next engaging visual change.

·"Normal infant activities like playing with a toy or looking at a person promot a longer visual attention span away from the TV." Dr. Eliot says.

·"In the brain, there's a survival response that causes us to pay attention to something fast-paced," says Gloria DeGaetano, author of Screen Smarts: A Family Guide to Media Literacy (1996) and the director of GrowSmartBrains.com, an education and resource organization. "Our nervous systems are revved up by the visual onslaught, but we stay sitting still. "This affects the youngest kids the most. They get a lot of pent up energy and anxiety from watching TV; then they act out just to burn it all off," DeGaetano says.


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## HotMama (Oct 26, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by MangoMamma_
*What do you do to amuse yourself when you don't want to watch TV.*
When do you find time to watch TV?? We go for walks, visit friends and neighbors, cook, play games, read, more reading, do chores, sew...I can't imagine finding time to watch TV. I do know if we had one, I'd probably watch it and other things I value would fall by the wayside, like hanging with friends or walking. I was bored lots more when I was younger and had roomates with TVs. Just can the darn thing and start living.


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Kylix, to answer your question, no I personally don't feel children would lose out on anything important. The only thing they may lose is a cultural connection to cultural phenomenons (i.e., Strawberry Shortcake, He-Man, Pac Man, Gilligan's Island, Million Dollar Man, Brady Bunch, Pokeman, The A-team....) Now are those shows so important that kids need to bond on simply that level. No, there are other ways kids can interact (music, shared activities & interests...)

I grew up watching a LOT of stupid TV shows. Hours and hours a day. It has not helped me much in my life. Even if it were just PBS.... kids get much more out of real-life experiences/interactions.

If you want to use it for educational shows when your kids are older, fine. But limiting it overall (and controlling content) is a good idea, IMO.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

We have a TV. We both watch it whenever we want to, and always have. Saying that young children need to interact with real people doesn't mean TV is bad - actually, the way we've always watched TV is pretty interactive. Yes, plopping the toddler in front of the TV all day is bad, but just because TV can be used badly doesn't make the medium itself bad.

I think the anti-TV thing has become a bandwagon, and it's easier to just condemn the medium than to really think critically about the different ways it can be used. Right now, my 10 yr old daughter and her 17 yr old friend - both unschoolers - are watching The Simpsons and cracking up, and during the commercials they're talking about the various techniques used and trying to guess what the ads are for. Rain loves Saturday Night Live and Mad TV, and is pretty savvy about satire and the political situation. She - and I - watch Law and Order and CSI a lot, and have some fascinating conversations.

OTOH, she had a nightmare last night based on a piece of art she saw yesterday at the Crocker Art Museum....

Dar


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## Kylix (May 3, 2002)

Finally checking back in. Thanks everyone for posting your responses....

I definetly don't think I will be allowing TV for my dc under the age of four or five or so. I don't see any reason to do that.

After that, it's up in the air. I can see the pros and cons of everyone's posts and want to get that book Endangered Minds. I do think that tv limits children's attention spans but I also think that sitting down and watching a tv program with your child and interacting with them over it (i.e. trying to surmise why so and so character this or that or what dc would do if he/she were in that person's situation) is good for critical thinking but then again, we could do the same thing with books.

I also think that having no TV in the home would be wonderful for getting more things done. Thing is, I need to get there myself before I can ever expect my future children too, lol. I already watch very little tv (my tv hasn't been on once today..I usually watch an hour of tv a day on average).

I love this topic and love how everyone is adding in their opinions. It is really helping me to get my thoughts in order.

Keep adding your thoughts, if you please









Kylix


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Wow.
We have a TV and have had cable on and off through the past six years.
My daughter did not watch TV until two, and it was mostly some PBS and a disney film here and there.
I limit her TV time and what she is allowed to watch.
My son began watching TV about 18months, mostly singing and now that he is two he likes Barney and Wiggles, some Elmo.
My youngest will be a year in a week. He likes to look at the TV when the older one watches Barney Sing and Dance.
I dont believe TV is evil, but some programming is and the materialism that is displayed in commercials.
We have only 13 channels on our TV and that is plenty. Its not something I want my children paying homage too or becoming addicted.


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## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

I guess I'm in the minority, we have a tv and now that I'm pregnant he's watching more than I'd like, but I'm so tired I can harding sit up half the day, he watches blues clues and toy story 2 every day, that give me two hours to rest, he's 22 months and doesn't nap, so he will sit and have a snack and I'll lay down on the couch and rest. Hopefully after the first trimester I'll have more energy to get up and do more with him again.


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## boysrus (Dec 2, 2001)

This is a red-faced post for me.
I didn't vote, bc none of the responses fit me, so you get along and confessional post instead









When I was growing up, tv was unlimited. And I was an addict. All the time, it seemed. When I got into high school, for some reason, I thought other people would think I was uncool for watching tv, so whenever one of my friends called, I would stop watching what i was watching and not admit I was watching tv. Weird. We wouls watch MTV or movies when we were together, but I never saw Cheers the first time while I was still in high school bc sitcoms just seemed like such a lame thing to do.
Fast forward to meeting dh. We moved in together and had a tv and cable. We watched ALL the TIME. We used to have a Sunday ritual. We would get up at about 9 or 10, make a huge breakfast and watch tv all day until 2 am. Very sick and twisted. We did go out and do other things, but many sundays were spent this way. After 7 months, we moved to Atlanta and left out tv adn vcr behind. We rented a tv for the first few months, then went tv free. My fil bought us a tv after a while, and we were right back in it. When ds was born, I had decided NO TV!! We watched it when he was a little bitty baby. When he was 5 days old, we spent our entire Xmas day watching an American in Paris and the Star Wars trilogy(dh watched, I mostly slept) Then, when ds was a couple months old, I realized he could see across the room, which meant he could see the tv. The tv went into the closet. I would watch sometimes during his nap and he watched Tiger Woods once, but it was gone. When he was about 2(and we had another baby) we got a few videos and he would watch them sometimes. But,we kept the tv in the closet and only brought it out occasionally. We would borrow things from the library sometimes.
Then, when I was pg with #3, I was really sick and they watched and watched and watched their videos. After I was better, we got cable until the baby came. They watched, some days alot some days alittle, After that, cable got cancelled, and they would watch a few vidoes a week. Then, the vcr broke and we sold the tv. We spent the summer camping, no tv in their tent.
Now we are staying with my mom and she has cable and it is so hard bc I use it way too much. My little guy is 20 months and always into something. TV makes him stop in his tracks for a little while. SO, I do it. I find it is so hard to break the cycle once it has started. And I cant get rid of the tv, bc it is not mine. We are moving in June, so that will be the end of it, but h=what damage until then. And of course, my mom thinks it is woderful and says "WOw He really likes TV!" Ugh!! And the only way my mom will watch my kids is if there is something for them to watch. She jsut cannot handle them. And sometimes, I need to run to the library to use the printer, and I relaly cant do that with three kids underfoot.
It was really scary becasue we had all gotten in the habit of buying things because there was a picture of bob or blue on it. I put a stop to all those shows: bob, bear, rolie polie olie, dora, anything that has a lot of stuff to it. They watch Oswald, Little Bill, Stanley, reading rainbow. I am trying very hard to be in the habit of not turning it on at all. Or just for reading rainbow. Most days they watch two hours or less. IF it is nice outside, they spend most of the day outside. I am sad bc I let them start watching liberty's kids, bc it would be a nesat history lesson. NOw, my boys, who never considered guns before, are playing shooting games and makes rockets







ANd they are constantly seeing show theme songs or talking straught momnologue. And, we tried some fo the am pbs shows, and they have froot loops and frosted flakes commercials!! YIKES!!
Thanks ladies, you have strengthened my resolve. We are going to scale way back!


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## levar (Jan 28, 2002)

We have One TV in the family room. No cable, but about 6 channels including PBS that come in really good. TV shows we watch are Sesame Street, Clifford, and Sagwa. If he sees it he wants to watch Cailou but I dont like it becuase the boy is SO whiny Taylor whines more too. We also have one DVD player and Two VCRs. [Taping adult TV for post-8p viewing while watching children TV, my Sister and Cousin live with us.] We have a HUGE selection of Disney and Veggie Tales videos, and we own Muzzy [on DVD] for French and are considering purchase of Spanish too. We also own[ed] all of the Baby Einstien videos.

We also have a high end Desktop and Laptop with DVD players, DSL, and stereo speakers in the office. And we have a fairly good stereo system in the living room and boom box in the family room.

We watch children videos in the morning between about 6:30a until 8:30a give or take while we have coffee and breakfast etc. My husband watches TV after 8p on Wed and I watch after 8p on Thur. Occationally we rent movies for Sat night. We have "dance hour" in the living room every other day or so, and we listen to childrens music after lunch most days. I bought 3 [so far] childrens computer games [ABCs, Coloring, Etc] and really enjoy "surfing" disney.com. We play together on the computer at least once a week. My husband and I each spend 15-60 minutes a day online usually while Taylor naps or at bedtime.

I am very strict about violence in movies [LOVE the DVD so I can easily "skip" scenes] and I am not so fond of "not nice"characters either. [And I cant WAIT for the DVD to be programable, Just think how cool THAT will be?!] That said, I do think we watch alot of TV and most of it is entertainment and if it happens to be educational great. I also have noticed that WE watch TV together. Only on mornings when I am really really tired and want an extra 30 min to get showered in private does my son watch TV without me. We never really planned this though, just happens?

PS. After reading all 4 pages of this post [WOW!] I thought I should also add that a year ago I checked into the actual research on at least one study of TV Effects on the Brain etc. I can't unfortunatly remember where I saw it online so I hesitate to mention it here, BUT if you read the stats of that study rats were being strapped infront on a TV screen with the same images for days at a time etc. No study I could find was done on an actual child [and I would freak out if there was, wouldnt you?!?!] only animals and hypothesis taken from there.

It seemed to me at the time that as with everything "too much" of Any thing is a BAD thing. "Too much" TV is bad, but very very subjective as well. As someone else on this thread said, no study has every been done [on a human] of the long term effects of No TV either. So if you dont want your kids to watch TV, dont let them, or if you dont like the amount, content, what ever, dont let them watch. But if you do like to watch tv AND do other things, fine.


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## JesseMomme (Apr 6, 2002)

Quote:

If he sees it he wants to watch Cailou but I dont like it becuase the boy is SO whiny Taylor whines more too
OMG I thought I was the only parent going through an anti-Caillou stage....my son learned how to whinnnnnne after watching a few episodes of that. If the TV is still on and I hear the theme song I run to turn off the tv lol. If I hear "but I don't want to!" in that ear-piercing Caillou voice one more time I'll shreik.

I do regulate my kids TV watching, but admit it got out of hand during my last two pregs, where I would need to rest and had no help but a favoured video. I go days at a time w/o even looking at the TV (Dh and I will rent a movie/dvd to watch together on a weekendnight) but each morning the kids like to watch PBS from about 8-10 which I think is more than plenty. By that time I have come to life though, can shut the TV off with out the kids even complaining and we go onto other stuff.

Unfortunately me and the kids have been stuck inside all winter. I'm so crawling up the walls I'm looking forward to going grocery shopping. After doing so much in a day, in goes another video. If I see Lilo and Stitch again I'll go mad. But I do try to sit with them if they watch a video during the day or at night and have them tell me about what they are seeing etc.

I am also guilty of using a video to get a shower...when you had no chance to shower for two days, you get desperate.







:


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## glh (Nov 19, 2001)

We have only one tv and regulate what the kids watch. I didn't let my youngest watch until she was 2 and she hasn't been very interested anyway. She likes the Wiggles, but only watches for a short time and then wants to do something else. My 6 yr old ds would watch more if we let him. I would never let one of my kids have a tv in their room, I don't know anyone who has done this and had good results with it. They complain about what the kids watch or the kids staying up too late watching tv. I feel like saying "well duh, take the tv out of the room-it is a no brainer!"

My 18 yr old son and one of his friends were home from college awhile ago and they told me that they could tell who the kids were in their dorms that were brought up with too much tv and video games. They were the ones that did not want to get involved in campus activities and were having a harder time adjusting to college life and making friends. I thought that was a really neat observation on their part and it just confirmed my thinking on this subject. My son's friend was the valedictorian at their high school and she said something like "I'm glad my parents made me go outside and play and didn't let me watch too much tv while I was growing up".


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## Devi (Jul 20, 2002)

I wonder if Cailiou whines because he is 4


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## Cathi (Mar 19, 2002)

Does anyone else think those Baby Einstein videos are scary? They have kind of scary puppets jumping out of nowhere sometimes, shouting "Blaaahhh". I think ds would FREAK if he saw that.

We do have a tv but ds only has videos that we prescreen. We like music A LOT in our house so we have some song videos that show kids dancing, exercising, being silly. Ds and I like to dance along with those. And then we have some religious videos that we like as well.

But those Einstein videos SCARE me. One had cows passing gas I think, my mom bought it for us and we previewed it late one night. Dh said "Yeah, I don't think so."









But, then again, television in general scares me these days. Those commercials! YIKES!!

Edited to add: Who are the Wiggles? Everyone talks about them and I'm clueless.


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## glh (Nov 19, 2001)

I actually heard about the Wiggles here. They are on the Disney Chanel, but they also put out some videos. Mostly they just sing and dance. DD will dance along with them, it is pretty cute.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

We had been letting my son watch certain videos (taped Sesame Street or Baby Einstein Shapes video) but it got totally out of control. He was only allowed to watch one/day, but at two years old, how can he really understand that? If he likes a book, he can read it 500 times. But he likes this program and we only let him watch it once/day (and he doesn't really understand what a 'day' is). So, after he spent no less than 20 minutes in hysterics over it yesterday, I called my husband (whom I'd been begging to at least move the TV to an armoire upstairs), he came home, and moved the thing upstairs. It was such a problem in the living area -- every time that my son saw it, he'd ask for it incessantly -- so he'd fuss if it wasn't on, and fuss when it was over (fuss or cry or throw a tantrum etc.).

This morning, he asked for the shapes video, I said that it was gone. He asked for TV, I said it was gone, too, because it was such a problem. Then he asked to go downstairs and look for it. Saw it wasn't there, and went about his business playing in far more interesting and creative ways than with that TV on! It was the bane of my existence! Now, we might as well get rid of cable since we hardly watch TV, either. Add $30 to our monthly budget for a nice family outing instead.

Next on my list: electronic toys. I've already gathered up the toys whose sole purpose is to make noise via the press of a button since that totally limits creativity. I'm evaluating the rest.

And that's my story!


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Fraya,

We had the EXACT same experience. DS was great about the limits on TV early on, but then became more and more enthralled. DH and I were very set on the limits for it, but it was hard for DS to understand this. One day, just after his second birthday, I realized I was having to say "no" 3 or 4 more times a day than I wanted to, that I had become, in essense, the TV police. Not how I pictured motherhood to say the least. We thought the best thing was to simply remove the source of the power struggle and move on. We moved it to our office out back.

When DS asked to watch Elmo the next morning, I just explained that Mama and Daddy put the TV away for a while so that Mama, Daddy and Gibson could spend more time together--the truth!







. He was totally fine with it, hasn't missed it and hasn't asked for to watch. I was surprised by this as he had seemed so attached to it. Turns out, he'd rather spend time with me interacting or doing something more hands on...

What a relief it is to have the TV out of the house. DH and I watch a few evenings a week and that's it. DS and I have been better attached, more in sinc and I've seen such a positive change in him. Turns out, he's much more creative than I realized and has a much easier time entertaining himself than I ever gave him credit for... glad you've enjoyed the same experience!

Em

P.S. The electronic toys, designed to drive a household mad come home from the in laws and go straight into the closet! I've done this from moment one! I bring one or two out occasionally if we have prolonged nasty weather or for just a change of pace. Rarely, is he even that interested in pushing a button when he could be rolling around his trucks, playing with his train or tending to his "farm."


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

My brother and cousins and I came up w/this game when we had been sent to play in an upstairs room at grandparents' house and one of us was wishing there was a TV to watch...

One person is the TV. Everybody else sits down holding an invisible remote control. TV stands there looking blank until somebody presses her remote and says, "On!" Then TV acts out a show--it can be a show you've really seen or something you make up. When a viewer tires of the show, she presses her remote and says, "Click!" and TV goes immediately into a different show. Viewers may discuss amongst themselves what they would rather be watching and switch to that particular channel, or simply channel-surf. When a viewer gets bored with this TV, she can turn it off and become the new TV, while the previous TV becomes a viewer.

This is great fun and really makes you think on your feet! One of the most entertaining tricks is to switch channels in the middle of a sentence, so that the sentence is completed with a fragment from a totally different context. For example, in our very first game, we switched out of a commercial into what turned out to be a religion program: "Brush your teeth with---JEEESUS!" My cousin as the televangelist flung himself abruptly onto his knees and really bellowed, bringing all the adults upstairs to see what was going on!









This game might be helpful in some of these situations where kids are whining about having used up their TV allotment for the day.


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## kimmysue2 (Feb 26, 2003)

My son has just started watching tv so I make sure what I watch is what I want his brain to see. Animal plant and food network. Other wise its off. I did not run out and buy any baby videos. It was so creepy to see my niece and nephew like zombies while watching TV. They would perfer to watch TV then play outside. My son loves to be outside and I want to keep encouraging that.


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## mojomom (Mar 5, 2003)

We do not have cable so the only T.V. my kids watch really is PBS. my ds watches Sesame Street and then the t.v. is turned off. when my dd comes home from school she watches Arthur and ZOOM!. that is her unwind time before homework and our evening starts. As a family she likes to watch American Idol and Star Search with us. She was watching Fear Factor but dh had noticed how they just seem to have women on who look good in swimsuits and the show grosses my ds out so we no longer watch that as a family. I got rid of cable because of all the commercials that they show on Nick. My dd was getting the "I want's" I found the commercials so fustrating. I see nothing wrong with t.v. like almost everything else in life you need moderation. What I do find fustrating with the t.v. is when we go to someones house for a playdate and the mom has the t.v. on, I just find that fustrating I brought my child over for interaction with a 3 dimensional person not a t.v. show. One mom has TIVO and has all the kids programs scheduled all day and just leaves the t.v. on the whole time at playgroup. I just don't see the point int hat.
Also wanted to add an idea I came up with to help my dd regulate her t.v. time during the summer. We made T.V. tickets, like movie tickets. There are 2 tickets and they are 30 minutes each.I put her tickets on the counter and when she wants to watch a show she gives me a ticket. When they are gone she knows her t.v. time is overfor the day. It worked great and saved me from saying "you have already watched your shows" all day. Just an idea.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

Thanks for your response, Em. I wish that I had thought of a more accurate description for what we did, rather than using the 'gone' approach. I didn't like it because it didn't seem totally honest to me, and that is a HUGE priority for me. I never tell him that something is 'sleeping' just because he cannot play with it or find it, etc., for instance. So I really really appreciate your response. I'll use that the next time that my son brings up the video.

My husband feels so badly for our son, because he occasionally mentions the video. I felt a little sad for him for the first time last night, when I asked him what he wanted to do next and he said he wanted to watch it, then described to me how fun it was, etc. I said, "Do you want to draw some shapes with Mommy?" Yes! "What do you want to use? Crayons? Markers? Pencils? Pastels? Paints?" Crayons! (like in the video). We proceeded to draw, and it was absolutley beautiful. I actually didn't draw any shapes -- he explored with colors and mediums, and it's just beautiful.

He does talk about the video occasionally, but he so readily accepts that it's not there and is able to move on to something more creative and productive. We've done so many fun things as alternatives.

I gave-in on the electronic toys that we received initially, thinking I'd just use them in the car. But then we got these firetrucks from people, and they aren't really suitable for play in the car so they crept into the house. Oh, and I bought a Tonka for him that I'll just be taking the batteries out of again (we had them out but then he wanted to turn it on once so we put it back in ... they'll be coming back out!). My husband doesn't understand that, particularly, either, but he works a lot of hours so simultaneously he's around his son less and I'm around him a LOT. So I have more opportunity to see the impact they have on our son's creativity. Plus, I think to an extent, if I'm in charge 90% of the time, then I get to make some of those executive decisions. Right now, my husband and I have agreed that the electronic toys stay in the garage or car.

I will say that my son received as a gift the Mozart Magic Cube music box, and that thing is really cool. It plays good music, and he is learning about different instruments using it.

These boards are so helpful. Thanks again!

Incidentally, I appreciate the other suggestions on time limits. I especially liked the 30-minute tickets idea because of the visual that provides (I'm a visual learner) -- it makes the whole thing a lot more tangible, a lot more within a child's grasp, I think. Maybe when my son is older that will work. He is a very spirited, very insistent, very persistent child. It's no surprise since both my husband and I are that way! But I figure that as he gets older we'll have more communication skills that we can use to dialogue about why TV isn't healthy to watch incessantly, etc. Plus he'll have more of a concept of time, even more of an understanding that after you use these up, that's it. Right now, he thinks there's always more!


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Fraya,

What a great experience you had turning your son's request into a hands-on, together activity. Beautiful indeed...

As for telling DS the truth, DH and I did wonder about possibly telling a slight fib because frankly, we worried about his being upset. In the end, I'm glad we chose the truth, which I think had a hand in avoiding the later questions like "when will the TV be fixed, wake up, reappear? I've learned over and over with DS that a simple honest answer is the best way to go... no matter what the reaction. With TV, we got lucky, he was totally fine with it.

I do know what you mean about feeling bad. DS did enjoy Elmo and his Bear in the Big Blue House videos. I have no doubt that at some point, he will enjoy them again... but later, perhaps at 4 or 5... right now, I get a real strong feeling that "doing" rather than "watching" is more important than we know. He still sings the Sesame Street theme and loves his Elmo doll but also seems fine that the TV element is missing...

Oh, those electronic toys! We have some that don't bother me at all and I don't mind having them out (ok, one: his farm) but there are some where the batteries must come out! Others that I just had to put away like I mentioned above.

All the best,

Em


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## Bladestar5 (Jan 5, 2003)

I am too embarrassed to even say how much t.v. Avey watches. The kid is an addict. He throws a fit if he doesn't have the t.v. on. I think he likes the sound, because he ignores it sometimes even if it is on. I am one to listen to the t.v. rather than watch it sometimes. I am coming up with some preschool lesson plans to do with Avey, and some fieldtrips and activities so he won't be hanging out with the electronic babysitter all day. It is so cold out, that it has just become convenient for t.v., especially since the new baby has been born. He won't watch as much when it warms up.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

Em,

This is a further digression, in some ways, I guess, from the thread ..

But, I did want to say that I agree that honesty is THE way to go. I was a liar when I was a kid (on and off, I guess), and when I decided not to do it anymore, it has been black-and-white ever since. It's either a lie to me or it's not. So saying "gone" to me was kind of gray. It was gone from the living room but not gone forever.

Besides, I'm a lawyer! So accuracy is important. Like I wouldn't say there's "nothing" in a room when there is something there. I'd say there's nothing of interest in the room!

So the TV thing was the first time I've ever said something that I didn't feel was totally accurate. Pretty much true, yes, but not totally accurate and not as honest or forthcoming as I wanted to be. It was partly because I was afraid of his response, probably, but also because I was really exhausted and hadn't planned what to say, so I fumbled around and came up with 'gone.' Pathetic! But I have been more accurate since then, and since I'm accurate/honest/forthcoming on everything else (probably to a fault), I assuage myself to a degree on the guilt.

Anyway, thanks again for your suggestion. Life without TV is SO much better!


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## Justice2 (Mar 18, 2003)

"Recent studies have shown that school-age children who watch less television are less aggressive and have less body fat regardless of programming," says Robert S. Kahn, M.D the study's senior author."

This is true in most cases. Children who sit in front of a TV all day tend to munch on junk also. My dd watches limited amount of TV. She has a TV in her room where she can watch "her" movies. We have no cable in that room and no antenna, so the only things she can watch are her movies. I only let her watch them at night when she is going to sleep. Durning the day I think that it is vitally important that she is outdoors playing. She is an incredibly active child and loves to run and ransack! LOL. I encourage that. If she gets it out now, at 8yrs old, maybe she won't feel the need to be that way when she is 16 years old! She doesn't just go out on warm, sunny days either. We play outside during the winter and on hot, rainy (as long as it's not lightening) days too. I can remember being a child and having so much fun playing in the rain, my mom would lay towels on the porch and let us run and I do the same for my dd.

As for me....Lord, I am a primetime addict! Only after dd goes to bed!

Laura
Thrilled to be married to Boue








Proud mommy to Justice, 8







and Kaeleb 5 weeks:binky


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## Bladestar5 (Jan 5, 2003)

My little guy is too little to play outside alone, and I can't bring my baby out in freezing weather, or he would play outside more often. Then in the Summer, we have to be careful because he is very pale and blonde and burns easily. Yesterday, I put on some '80's music, and we danced like idiots







and had some fun! I was surprised that he was so happy to listen to music rather than watch t.v. The baby must have thought we were nuts!!


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Fraya - Oh those unprepared moments! I've had a few myself. Like when DS quietly walked up behind me while I was digging my spoon into the ice cream carton, having just quietly removed it from the freezer while he was in his room playing (he hadn't to that point had any sort of real, sugary treat)... "Uh, uh... it's just yogurt honey. In a real big container?" Talk about insulting his intelligence! He walked over to the kitchen drawer, pulled out a bowl and held it out to me. At that point I realized I had been caught!









Bladestar - Indeed, the music and dancing are a staple at our house. In the evening before bath, we even do the nudey dance (him, not me







) and it's great fun and exersize. Especially as you mentioned in the cold months of winter.

Em


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## Bladestar5 (Jan 5, 2003)

:LOL







My son does the nudey dance also!! Before and after his shower! He saw his daddy do it, and thought he should advertise his too







It is really funny when they both do the nudey dance just before and after a shower! Like father, like son







Sorry, tmi...


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

No cable here. We keep out ancient television in the junk room. If we go out and leave Sequoia with a sitter (doesnt happen since Dylan was born) we drag it out, hook it up in the living room and rent her a DVD, if were going to be gone and shes asleep, we will take the sitter to the place and let her pick one out so she's not completly bored. I also came from a TV free household, and am glad.


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## alexa07 (Mar 27, 2003)

Here is our situation. DH grew up with very little TV. Guess what? All four sibs are TV addicts. I grew up with as much TV as i wanted and I'd much rather read.

DH decided to go it my way. He came down last saturday to find both DD's (age 5 and 7) playing "beach"( in swimsuits, with towels on our living room floor.) He said "I can't believe they know they can watch cartoons but don't even turn on the TV.

OUr girls do watch TV sometimes, but very little. Last winter DD 1 came down with pneumonia and the Dr wanted her to rest as much as possible the first 24 hours. When I "caught" her hoola hooping in the playroom I suggested she watch a tv show. No thanks she said. I couldn't believe it when I heard myself say "Please, I beg of you, lie down, and watch TV!"


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## glh (Nov 19, 2001)

Alexa-I know what you mean. My 2 yr old dd had pneumonia a couple months ago and even though she was nursing constantly, I still desperately needed to get fluids in her. I never even buy soda and there I was saying "please, please drink your soda".


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## oli's mama (Apr 2, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by frogertgrl_
*

The AAP Policy RE9911 is the best thing I've read so far detailing the social, emotional and cognitive damages from television.

*
The policy states: "Pediatricians should urge parents to avoid television viewing for children under the age of 2 years. Although certain television programs may be promoted to this age group, research on early brain development shows that babies and toddlers have a critical need for direct interactions with parents and other significant caregivers (eg, child care providers) for healthy brain growth and the development of appropriate social, emotional, and cognitive skills. Therefore, exposing such young children to television programs should be discouraged."

Our son watches Sesame Street (dances to the music while playing and glances sometimes at the people and the puppets), however I have met few children who recieve more individualized attention. We fill that critical need for direct interaction... he is with one of us 24/7, sleeps with us, nurses, plays, talks, etc with us even when Sesame is on.

My question for Frogertgrl is: Is there something more to this policy not stated here. I read it all and saw nothing of frontal lobe damage. As well, my mother is a pediatric Speech language pathologist and has heard nothing of frontal lobe damage. I am not trying to be flip... I am just wondering if there is some other study you have to back up this notion of brain damage.

thanks- nikki


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## frogertgrl (Nov 28, 2002)

Hi Nikki, don't think you came across as flip at all!

No doubt your mom has studied brain development in her education and work. And probably received such advocacy materials from the AAP such as:

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/mmguide.pdf

The AAP Policy I referred to uses data from quite a few sources, and yes, references the 'critical need' for 'healthy brain growth' but doesn't state what part of the brain they are talking about. For that, one needs to read further in the AAP archives. The AAP's policies often reference the 'interactive' functions of a child's brain and how television/videos do not contribute positively toward that brain function. But they don't often spell out the medical processes in their policies. That's typical policy format.

This, I hope will clarify what I mentioned:
http://www.aap.org/advocacy/chm98nws.htm

Quote:

Neuroscientists have shown that environmental experiences significantly shape the developing brain because of the plasticity of its neuronal connectivity. Thus, repeated exposure to any stimulus in a child's environment may forcibly impact mental and emotional growth, either by setting up particular circuitry ("habits of mind") or by depriving the brain of other experiences. While appropriate stimuli - close interaction with loving caregivers; an enriched, interactive, human language environment; engrossing hands-on play opportunities; and age-appropriate academic stimulation - enhance the brain's development, environments that encourage intellectual passivity and maladaptive behavior (e.g., impulsivity, violence), or deprive the brain of important chances to participate actively in social relationships, creative play, reflection and complex problem-solving may have deleterious and irrevocable consequences.

Quote:

The brain's executive control system, or pre-frontal cortex, is responsible for planning, organizing and sequencing behavior for self-control, moral judgment and attention. These centers develop throughout childhood and adolescence, but some research has suggested that "mindless" television or video games may idle this particular part of the brain and impoverish its development. Until we know more about the interaction of environmental stimulation and the stages of pre-frontal development, it seems a grave error to expose children to a stimulus that may short-change this critical system.
Of course, every parent will decide for their family what is appropriate levels of media. For us, that is zero but I understand other families might be motivated to 'mediate' the effects of television, videos and attempt to make them more interactive. I would rather apply my energies toward non-media activities with my children. But this is a very personal decision and I think the best thing is to do whatever one does consciously, as many children in this country are encouraged to view television for reasons other than 'education' (give mom a break, help child wind down, etc.)

I understand that I can only manage risks to my children, not everything is within my control. But I feel accountable in this area (media) to be informed and protect my children to the extent I can in critical developmental years. They will have their own relationship to media as we all do. But I would rather their minds be free to develop healthfully as much as possible and when I read the warnings from orgs like AAP and why television puts healthy brain growth at risk, I am more motivated to come up with interactive alternatives to media.

HTH to explain what I wrote earlier!


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## oli's mama (Apr 2, 2003)

i looked up some more info on this after what you had originally posted. i got to thinking about how i was feeling defensive about my decision to let my son watch a baby einstein and a sesame street music video and realized what a media junkie i have become since we moved from san francisco to nebraska (not too much to do here). we just cancelled cable and have cut out his tv watching and of course he doesn't even notice. he just liked the music!
thanks for your info. i am so glad for your posts. i just hope we didn't impair his little synapses from "exuberating" LOL.
thanks again, nikki


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## Moooommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Until someone comes up with compelling evidence that TV is good for my kids, they don't watch TV. Very simple, really. (Now if I could only wean my husband from it!)

I believe that we need to work hard to educate and empower parents to the point that media-free kids once again become the norm. It means a lot of deliberate action-taking, building communities, driving to true play dates, etc.

I'm not militant about much, but I'll take on this pipe dream...


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

TV tends to induce alpha brain waves, and this is what a lot of the research is referring to. So does meditation...

I still find TV to be more of a positive than a negative in our lives. And I have a wonderful ten yr old with many friends and interests who has always been free to watch as much or as little TV as she wants...

Dar


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## ainsleyx (Apr 3, 2003)

I seem to find that my kids are too busy to watch too much TV. I am a child who was raised on *no* TV, no sugar, etc....and I felt so pissed and alienated that I rebelled as a teen. I also grew up listening to a lot of folk music and relate that to my punk phase.

I like to think that I allow a happy medium.







:


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## hydrangea (Jun 5, 2002)

My answer's not really here. We have one television. We do not have cable, and our reception is so/so. PBS is one of the few things that comes in decently. The tv is in a cabinet that can be closed in the living room. My dh and I almost only rented movies and the rare thing on PBS (like Manor House). We have only had any television for four years, and only had reception at all since we moved in here a little over a year ago.

When we first got the television, my younger daughter was an infant and didn't watch any, of course, and my oldest only watched carefully selected videos, and only when I allowed her too. As my younger daughter got older, she started watching videos on occasion too.

But then as my girls continued to grow and we settled on unschooling, and I started hanging around the discussion boards at http://unschooling.com/, my opinion of television started to change. I now pretty much let them watch whatever they want to watch whenever they want to watch it. When we first started this, they watched videos and PBS constantly. But as we kept going, they naturally started to set their own limits.

We go weeks and even months at a time without their turning on the tv, and we have days when they watch maybe an hour or so. And then there are days when they watch a lot, but those are almost always the same days that the night before they slept too little or they're sick or they're coming down with something. Sometimes one will be watching and the other won't, and I don't think I have ever had an issue where I wanted them to have them turn off the tv so we could do something/go somewhere and they didn't do it right away.

It's pretty much only PBS and kids' videos. Occasionally they watch something a little more sophisticated, but that is always because dh or I want to watch it and have decided that it something we are comfortable watching while they are awake. Because we are watching it with them, we are able to talk about it.

I highly, highly recommend reading the http://unschooling.com/ discussion boards for the views on watching television there. It's a really different way of looking at television, and I was very resistent when I first read these ideas, but now to me it makes perfect sense. It's not that I think there are some shows that are so educational, it's that I think life itself is educational and I trust my children to learn from it, in the ways they think best. Check out the opinions on food and video games there while you're at it.


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## water (May 15, 2003)

Hi, we don't have a TV, and I never want to. I didn't have a TV growing up, and sure I felt a little left out when everyone was discussing whatever was on, but I read so many books, and did so may cool things instead that I never cared.

I've lived in and out of houses with Tvs, and now that we are in our own place with our kid, we decided not to get one. I don't think there is any redeeming value in TV; you don't learn anything.

It's funny too, the home daycare that my son goes to in the aft. will sometimes put on a video at the end of the day, and when we go to pick him up, ALL the rest of the kids (0-4yrs) will be watching whatever it is, and my son will be off playing, making up stories and pretending. That makes it worth it, to me.

Jenn


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Celestial_
*

*MY* conflict comes not so much from the content aspect of TV, which I can always discuss with my DS, but more from the physical effects of TV watching, limited or excessive. The four that pop to mind are altered brain activity due to the flickering of the TV screen, shortened attention spans, increased hostility after watching TV violence, and decreased physical activity.
*
Are these things you've personally observed? Just wondering... they're not things I've observed in my child, who has always had free access to tv. Well, I expect that her brain does go into alpha wave pattern when watching TV sometimes, but mine does the same thing on long drives or while meditating, and don't see it as a problem.

I agree with the unschooling.com recommendation - and it's really not appropriate to apply conclusions from research done on one set of children to others, living under very different conditions. The studies that how an increase in violent behavior actually only showed that increase in some children - who were perhaps especially susceptible to this because of their life experiences. Most children's responses didn't change.

As far as physical activity, my experience has been that a physically and mentally healthy child who has access to other activities as well as TV wll get plenty of exercise. Today Rain did ballet for an hour, clay class for an hour, and swam for 2 hours, plus some basic playing. TV was always an option.

Dar


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## DeChRi (Apr 19, 2002)

We have a TV, but we regulate the watching of our 4 yr old dd. Many days we don't watch any, others, we do.


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## CandyLayne (May 12, 2003)

DD has a tv in her room but only watches it to go to sleep (it's the one we take in the car b/c she hates being in the carseat when we go to visit my in-laws 6 hours away). she watches some shows during the day on nick jr. or pbs.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Last summer we were completely TV free which was nice. This "school year" DH watches NYPD Blue when it is new and we generally watch 2 videos a week as a family. It is more than I would like, but it came about because:

DH usually works from 8am (before kids wake up) til 6pm. On Wednesdays he works from 8am til Thursday morning and then goes back to work on Thursday 8am-6pm. That makes it from Wednesday 8am- Thursday 6pm I have the kids alone and *I* get tired. Also, DH usually puts DS to bed so I need a way to tire them both out after a long day. A video does it.

Saturdays we do stuff all day as a family and watch a video to wind down.

If we have plans or DH doesn't work on Wednesday, no video. If we have guest, or other plans on Sat no video.

I like this because it doesn't make TV the forbidden fruit, it makes it just another activity. Just like we don't go swimming every day or to the zoo. A movie is just a little treat.

I assume this will change though, as DD is only 4 and DS 20 months!

Kay


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

I think a TV is a must to have. Watch racionally. Help your children watch. Forbiding is not a good idea.


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## thistle (Aug 10, 2002)

When dd was born I started out "no TV" for the household. Well, we slid off that wagon and I was letting dd (13 mo) watch a few minutes of Sesame Street here and there at first, which was turning into every day plus Teletubbies. That is over. Thanks to everyone who posted articles. I am also going to greatly pare back what DH & I are watching. Every now & then there is an interesting PBS show or National Geographic we can tape and watch when dd is sleeping. When she is older, I may reevaluate, but for now I am absolutely NO TV for dd.

FWIW- Growing up I was allowed unrestricted access to TV and I was and still am a total addict! I think it just depends on the kid.

thistle


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