# How to handle 'friend' and her childrens sexual behavior



## NamastePlatypus (Jan 22, 2007)

I hope this is not going to be novel long. I don't know what to do about a situation that happened last week with a friend. We have not been hanging out as much, ( that is a whole other thread) but one reason is that she is a negletful and lazy parent. She is also very defensive so talking to her about this is not going to go over well.
She has three kids two daughters, 9 and JUST turned three this week, and a 2 year old son. Her DD1 is from another marriage. She always has her watching the kids because she is to lazy too, she is a mom at nine and it is sad, she has been like that since i first met them two years ago. She says that DD1 loves it and that is is good for her. I agree it is good to let sibling help but it is not there job or responsibilty for even 1/5 of there day.
I know some moms don't care about this one but i do. Closed doors, to me, not cool, if you can't do it with the door open you shouldn't be doing it. That is just me. Along with that there is NO slamming of doors, just dangerous and disprespectful to me.
We are TV free for many reasons that work for us, there are a few things he watches on line ( things from Discovery Channel). But I am not ok with cartoons and Disney channel stuff for MY kids.

All that being said here is what happened.

I have not been there in a month or so but wanted to give it one more go before I made my final decison to not go back over there. In the past I have to spend days teaching E it is NOT ok to act like DD2 over there. CONSTANTLY. Well I stopped by and it was only for a few minutes because I can't handle more than that of her kids. I get there and she is watching a friends 10 year old boy and him and DD1 are all holed up in her room, door closed as always. As soon as E walks in the door DD2 takes him and runs back there and slams the door. As always I have to go back and remind E to keep the door open, DD1 says it is fine if the door is closed and so does the mom. I have to tell them if E is gone that is fine but not when my children are there. This happens more than a few times, me having to get up and check the door, and E bless his hear each time was trying to UNLOCK it and say, open the door open the door, and DD1 and 2 whispering sshhh sshhhh quiet, leave it closed. The 7th or 8th time I went back was the LAST time because he flung the door open and was running to me going " mom mom make DD2 stop kissing me I don't like it" Each time this happened the mom would tell me to relax they are fine DD1's got it, she is a good kid she can watch them.
( little back story, 6 monthes ago I walked into her room to tell E we had to go and she was under the neighbor boy and the way they jumped and reacted it was not innocent and you all KNOW what I mean!) I told her about it, mom freaked out on me saying I was being over zealous, kids wrestle and it is fine....)
Back to the other day, I walk in there and and dd1 and boy JUMP off each other, him to the floor and her to the other side of the bed, just like last time I saw her with a boy in her room.
DD2 was trying to drag he back in there by the arm and close the door on me. That was it for me, grabbed the boys and said I had to go since it was lunch.
That night I told dh about it and he freaked but I told him to stay calm while we talked to e about it at dinner. SO at dinner I asked e about what happened so he would not feel on the spot or influnced by the other children or shamed. He went on to tell us that DD1 and boy were 'married kissing' aka going at it. ( I was watching the bachlor on my computer after he went to bed and he came out and saw it and I had to explain what they were doing, called it married kissing so I know what he was talking about.) And that they told him and DD2 that if they wanted to be big kids and not babies like there little brothers that they would do it. E said that he was trying to leave the room and izzy was attacking him and trying to pull on his pants and get her hand up his shirt.

The anger spilling over on the inside of dh and I is unreal about this. We didn't think that we would have to have 'this talk' with my four year old. PLEASE any advice would be appreciated!!!

THANK you for reading it all if you have


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## sleepingbeauty (Sep 1, 2007)

That is UNBELIEVABLE behavior for kids that age!!
I'd talk to yours about it when they ask or are already talking about that family. (Maybe you can start the convo by saying something about them but not about that situation yet and work your way into it?) If they ask, they are more likely to pay attention to what we say, you know? Explain why it isn't a good thing. Answer questions in a simple way so they can really get it. Tell them that NO ONE can touch them if they don't want to be touched. Tell them that closed doors are NOT ok. I'm so sorry they had to witness all that crap!!









As for the 'friend' and her kids.... That girl is 9 years old. No 9 year old should EVER be making out in bed with the door closed! NONE. The mother doesn't seem to take ANYTHING seriously and if something isn't done this girl could end out really screwed up in one way or another. If the mother doesn't listen, can you talk to the other parent? Other than that there really isn't anything an outsider can do aside from calling CPS but (unless I'm not grasping the situation correctly) that seems a bit much right now.

I really am so sorry you had to be in the middle of that. I hope those poor kids turn out ok...







Good for you for getting your kids out though. That was the best thing you could have done for them as far as this is concerned.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

I'm having a hard time following your concerns here. Are you saying that you have a relationship with a friend you don't care for, and have criticism about her parenting choices, personality, child rearing, etc? I'm not clear why you made the choice to go to her home, with your child or children, under these circumstances? If you want to have some relationship, perhaps it would be better to meet at a more neutral location where the ground rules work for everyone? It might be less stressful fo all.

If you were uncomfortable with the closed door, why didn't you leave? I guess I just don't get that piece. Different families have different rules, but you chose to go there is the first place, and then stay after that. I can't really comment on the older kids because it's hard for me to tell what was really happening. There's a pretty wide range of innocent to exploration some times at that age.

As far as having anger, I don't understand who you are angry with? Again, just from your post, it seems that this was a choice that you made for your family. Maybe there's something I am missing?


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## NamastePlatypus (Jan 22, 2007)

I feel better hearing that I am NOT a crazy overprotective helicopter mom, something she has called me before.







I have almost called CPS on her before for other stuff. We did talk to e about it and he was very receptive, thank goodness. We wanted him to know we were so glad that he was open with us and that we will always be this calm and understanding and open about this and everything else he brings to us. I was so proud of him for knowing that it was wrong in the first place and was trying to go against it. It just made me so sad at the same time. He is 4, a CHILD. I want him to enjoy being a CHILD for his CHILDHOOD, it is so short and getting shorter the way things are. This was a reason why we are homeschooling, to monitor who his peers are. This girl as been nice, but not the right fit in terms of famlily and morals.


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## NamastePlatypus (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karne* 
I'm having a hard time following your concerns here. Are you saying that you have a relationship with a friend you don't care for, and have criticism about her parenting choices, personality, child rearing, etc? I'm not clear why you made the choice to go to her home, with your child or children, under these circumstances? If you want to have some relationship, perhaps it would be better to meet at a more neutral location where the ground rules work for everyone? It might be less stressful fo all.

If you were uncomfortable with the closed door, why didn't you leave? I guess I just don't get that piece. Different families have different rules, but you chose to go there is the first place, and then stay after that. I can't really comment on the older kids because it's hard for me to tell what was really happening. There's a pretty wide range of innocent to exploration some times at that age.

As far as having anger, I don't understand who you are angry with? Again, just from your post, it seems that this was a choice that you made for your family. Maybe there's something I am missing?

I DID leave. Most people we know let there kids play with the doors closed, and I have to contantly go back and make sure they are open. Even when the kids come here, they do it do my doors, and e is pretty good about reopening them. There is nowhere here to take kids, trust me if we could we would









In terms of the friendship, I have known her for two years. She has been a good friend in the past ( parenting issues aside, I know we all don't agree on everything but it has gotten worse the past 6 monthes), but she has changed alot in the past few monthes, I just thought it was from the hormones, ( she is trying to to be a surro. mom). I am not a fair weather friend and believe in the best of people. But as things have gotten worse and my children get older I am more aware of things that they come in contact with. I went back to her house to see if things were any better before I made the final decison of us going over there occasionally, for the benifit of the doubt. I got my answer.
We were angry that my 4 year old was placed in a situation that in my opinion was age inappropriate. Like I said I left as soon as it happened. I know it is hard for kids to keep doors open when they are not used to it, and E was trying to fox that situation 90 percent of the time, he is a kid and if he gets caught up in something he might forget.
I understand exploration and all that, it, to me, was wrong for them to direct the 4 and just turned 3 year old to do it if they want to be big kids and not babies. THAT is not ok to me. I am not going to say what is ok for her in terms of her kids, not my kids. But when it affected MINE. Not cool. I would like to think people have enough common sense to see when things are not right.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

ETA: Nevermind. I'm no help, I can't figure out what's going on.

I hope you find the right solution, OP.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"That is UNBELIEVABLE behavior for kids that age!!"

No, it's not. it's really, really believable. Sexualized play happens all the time, including among kids who have a perfectly healthy home life with no abuse. I certainly don't think parents need to accept or condone it - after all, isn't teaching our children appropriate boundaries for sexual expression a huge part of our job? - but there is no point in freaking out about it. "Married kissing" games have been going on since the beginning of time. Coercing younger children into said games is also a behavior with a loooong precedent. As the mom, you don't allow that and you teach that coercion is wrong. But there' no need to assume that the kids are going to wind up in actual sexual trouble later on because they were involved in this kind of thing in childhood.

OP, you did the right thing to leave and not go back. I would do the same. The point I'm trying to make above is that it's not the KIDS who have done something unforgivable and violated your trust, it's the other mom who doesn't deal with this issue when it occurs in a way that is acceptable to you.


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## NamastePlatypus (Jan 22, 2007)

E is my son, which I stated to be 4. She is the ones with DD's not me.
Removed the name, but that was her DD2
I agree I am upset with the mom who sits by and says nothing about it and when she hears of it poos poos it like it were nothing to be worried of. This women was sexually abused as a child and her oldest DD was as well by a family member already. It is scary situation to me knowing the backround.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I think your only answer is to not visit them anymore. I can understand why you are upset but you were in her home. As a guest, you have no right to make the rules for her children or her home. If closed doors are fine with her, then you have not right to insist otherwise. Here or at anyone else's house. You do, of course, have the right to insist that your child stay out of a door with a closed room or to leave. And, of course, if they are visiting you then you have every right in the world to insist on open doors.

I too think there may or may not be not-so-innocent play among the older children. But I don't think its CPS bad or really any of your concern. You have voiced your concern to the mom, she has indicated she doesn't have the same values or concerns that you do. You may be right, she may be right -- I can't tell. But once she has dismissed your concerns, your only choice really is to discontinue the friendship or change the "level" of it to something you are comfortable with.


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## tanyam926 (May 25, 2005)

I can understand why you would have concerns about your child playing in that type of situation.

What it comes down to though is that you disagree w/her on fundamental parenting issues, so much so that it negatively impacts your interaction w/her.

If I were you I would let the friendship go since you have nothing in common w/her. There's not really much else you can do. She knows what's going on and has chosen to handle it in a way that you don't agree w/.


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## fiorio (Aug 30, 2006)

If the normal sexual exploration was going on just between the older DD and the neighbor boy I wouldn't say anything. But since the older children are involving the younger kids I think it is abuse. For the sake of the younger DD I think you should call CPS.


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## sleepingbeauty (Sep 1, 2007)

*Smithie*--durrr... I think that in my rush to get what I wanted to say out screwed up my words and said something completely different.

I get sexual exploration and play at that age. I'm 20, it wasn't so long ago that I was doing things like that. We all did! What I *meant* to say that "That is UNBELIEVABLE _*to allow this*_ behavior for kids that age!! I mean to say that the mother should at least be doing something about it. You said it yourself, it is the parents job to teach them what is ok or not in this field (including pressuring someone else...especially a 4 year old!). It sounds like the mother doesn't give a hoot what the girl is doing.

Make more sense? (kinda?) I really need to pay more attention when I get pissed. At least I yell coherently in person!







lol


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tanyam926* 
I can understand why you would have concerns about your child playing in that type of situation.

What it comes down to though is that you disagree w/her on fundamental parenting issues, so much so that it negatively impacts your interaction w/her.

If I were you I would let the friendship go since you have nothing in common w/her. There's not really much else you can do. She knows what's going on and has chosen to handle it in a way that you don't agree w/.


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## momo7 (Apr 10, 2005)

For your own personal piece of mind, and for your child's safety......It's probably not a good idea to visit there anymore. However.....it's always good to get out of the house. A play date in a public place is always a good alternative. There aren't many opportunities for the kind of "play" that you are talking about.

For the record, as the voice of descent, I would say that that kind of play maybe "normal" but that doesn't make it acceptable. I would have serious issues with her parenting whether it's her house or not. Just because it's her house and her rules does not mean you have to accept it nor does it make it the right kind of play.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

I would not visit them anymore.


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## Oubliette8 (Apr 15, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NamastePlatypus* 
E is my son, which I stated to be 4. She is the ones with DD's not me.
Removed the name, but that was her DD2
I agree I am upset with the mom who sits by and says nothing about it and when she hears of it poos poos it like it were nothing to be worried of. This women was sexually abused as a child and her oldest DD was as well by a family member already. It is scary situation to me knowing the backround.

I'm a little confused with all the DD's here, so excuse me if I get it wrong but-

First off, it seems your decision is made up, and obviously you wont be bringing your boys over there again. however, as her friend, and witness to the behavior, I don't think it would be a bad idea to sit down with her, tel her what you saw and what you were told happened- it sounds like the DD and neighbor boy were doing more than just kissing games, and they tried to take off your son's pants, tried to pressure him into sexual activity, and told him it would make him grown up. Given the history of sexual abuse in the family, could you gently suggest that maybe the daughters could benefit from counseling to help them figure out these issues? Even if they had counseling already, sometimes kids need to do some more when they enter a new stage of development. I don't know the mother, so I'm not sure if thats they type of conversation she would react well to or not. It is possible that its normal sexual exploration, but your description makes it seem more than that. And even if nothings going on sexually, it sounds like the kids could use some counseling anyway.


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## Sweetiemommy (Jul 19, 2005)

I don't think your child was "placed" in that situation, unless you mean by you. If you must bring him to visit this person (who seems better suited to an adult only relationship) you need to keep him with you at all times. He doesn't need to be playing in the other room. Maybe if you need to keep in touch with this person, you should make it a telephone only relationship or meet her at a library, fast food restaurant, whatever. Or maybe leave your child home with Dh while you visit her for an hour or so. Don't feel vicitimized, you have complete control over this situation, don't allow your child to witness or participate in this behavior.


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## fiorio (Aug 30, 2006)

I want to clarify the impression I got from OP since no one else has mentioned it and I'm wondering if I got this mixed-up. Were the older kids (9 & 10) pressuring the younger ones (3 yo girl and OP's 4 yo DS) to engage in the sexual play? Because if that is the situation it isn't just a parenting difference. Sexual exploration between kids close in age is normal, but when there is a 5-7 year age difference it is abusive for the younger child. I think that needs to be addressed instead of just ending the friendship.


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## intrepidmother (Feb 21, 2009)

If the 9 yr. old was sexually abused, then I would be especially concerned. Children who have experienced sexual abuse don't understand or know appropriate sexual boundaries. I wouldn't want my child to play with those children alone in a room where you couldn't easily observe them. You're right- you have to protect the innocence of your DS...

...and the fact that they tried to cover it up and keep your DS in a room with them means they know that what they were doing was inappropriate.


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

This is a violation of your son.

This is abnormal behaviour for children of this age.

This is most likely connected to sexual molestation or abuse of these children.

This will only get worse as your "friend" is a lazy and neglectful parent.

Do not socialize with this person again. Do not expose your children to her realm.

I feel sad for her children.... but that doesn't mean you risk _your own_ in order to be around them.

I am with your husband, I would be *livid* if this happened to us.

Trin.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

Chalk it up to bad judgment on your part and move on.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Has the sexual abuse of the 9-year-old girl been reported to the authorities?

What you have described is the 9-year-old girl and the 10-year-old boy attempting to sexually abuse your 4-year-old son.

You should call Child Protective Services so that the older girl and boy can get the counseling that they desperately need. Also, they are behaving in a sexually abusive way towards younger children, which needs to be investigated by the authorities.

I hope your son is OK.

Never let him near these people again.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Wait, I'm lost. I thought is was the mother who had been sexually abused as a child? Which may explain her reluctance to confront the situation.


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## amandaleigh37 (Jul 13, 2006)

Absolutely I would not bring my child to their home again, or have them at my home (since you mentioned they are always trying to close the door there too). No way.

Your child needs to know that what they were doing was NOT ok and that he did the right thing by telling you, and trying to get out of the room. Let him know that if anything like that every happens again ANYWHERE, to get away and come tell you right away so you can leave.

It sounds like what is happening between the 9yo and neighbor boy is beyond normal exploration, especially since the parents do not seem to be attempting to make sure things are safe. I can't really say with certainty based on this post alone, but I would consider involving CPS before this gets very dangerous, if it's not already.


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

Quote:

Has the sexual abuse of the 9-year-old girl been reported to the authorities?

What you have described is the 9-year-old girl and the 10-year-old boy attempting to sexually abuse your 4-year-old son.

You should call Child Protective Services so that the older girl and boy can get the counseling that they desperately need. Also, they are behaving in a sexually abusive way towards younger children, which needs to be investigated by the authorities.

I hope your son is OK.

Never let him near these people again.
Exactly.

I would call the authorities and report what is happening with the 9 year old girl and the 10 year old boy, also, the 3 year old in the house is at risk.

Trin.


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## NamastePlatypus (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oubliette8* 
I'm a little confused with all the DD's here, so excuse me if I get it wrong but-

First off, it seems your decision is made up, and obviously you wont be bringing your boys over there again. however, as her friend, and witness to the behavior, I don't think it would be a bad idea to sit down with her, tel her what you saw and what you were told happened- it sounds like the DD and neighbor boy were doing more than just kissing games, and they tried to take off your son's pants, tried to pressure him into sexual activity, and told him it would make him grown up. Given the history of sexual abuse in the family, could you gently suggest that maybe the daughters could benefit from counseling to help them figure out these issues? Even if they had counseling already, sometimes kids need to do some more when they enter a new stage of development. I don't know the mother, so I'm not sure if thats they type of conversation she would react well to or not. It is possible that its normal sexual exploration, but your description makes it seem more than that. And even if nothings going on sexually, it sounds like the kids could use some counseling anyway.

No you got it right, I am sorry if it was a little confusing, it is hard to get it all out straight when I am still upset by it and trying to lay it out in a non confusing way with 4 kids involved, not to mention the two two year olds that were not apart of it. I agree with your response.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fiorio* 
I want to clarify the impression I got from OP since no one else has mentioned it and I'm wondering if I got this mixed-up. Were the older kids (9 & 10) pressuring the younger ones (3 yo girl and OP's 4 yo DS) to engage in the sexual play? Because if that is the situation it isn't just a parenting difference. Sexual exploration between kids close in age is normal, but when there is a 5-7 year age difference it is abusive for the younger child. I think that needs to be addressed instead of just ending the friendship.

This was what I was doing to get out









Quote:


Originally Posted by *intrepidmother* 
If the 9 yr. old was sexually abused, then I would be especially concerned. Children who have experienced sexual abuse don't understand or know appropriate sexual boundaries. I wouldn't want my child to play with those children alone in a room where you couldn't easily observe them. You're right- you have to protect the innocence of your DS...

...and the fact that they tried to cover it up and keep your DS in a room with them means they know that what they were doing was inappropriate.

She was, by a aunt that is now 16 and pregnant, it happened about three years ago.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dandelionkid* 
Chalk it up to bad judgment on your part and move on.

What was bad judgment? The making sure that the door wasn't closed where he was, or the leaving when I saw it?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
Wait, I'm lost. I thought is was the mother who had been sexually abused as a child? Which may explain her reluctance to confront the situation.

Both had been

I wanted to thank everyone for there responses. It is such a hard situation to deal with and I have to be very delicate about it. I am taking advice from everyone here about it. I don't think I would call CPS on it, that is really harsh, but if it every happened again after having the talk with her ( which it would not because we are NOT going back over there) I would.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NamastePlatypus* 
It is such a hard situation to deal with and I have to be very delicate about it. I am taking advice from everyone here about it. I don't think I would call CPS on it, that is really harsh, but if it every happened again after having the talk with her ( which it would not because we are NOT going back over there) I would.









How is it harsh to make sure that the 9-year-old girl (not to mention the 10-year-old boy) gets professional help?

The older girl is attempting to sexually abuse younger children. What about the safety of her younger sibling? The older girl might already be sexually abusing her younger sibling on a regular basis.

You should try to help both of them because it's clear that the mother is not going to. It's your moral obligation to help these children. These children have no one else to help them but you.

A lot of abused children grow up and wonder why no one ever intervened and helped them. Why is everyone afraid to call CPS?

Please reconsider and call CPS. That's what they're there for. Why wouldn't you call?


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## *bejeweled* (Jul 16, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smithie* 
"OP, you did the right thing to leave and not go back. I would do the same. The point I'm trying to make above is that it's not the KIDS who have done something unforgivable and violated your trust, it's the other mom who doesn't deal with this issue when it occurs in a way that is acceptable to you.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

I guess I just don't understand why you continue to go over to their house if you basically disagree with everything that the mother does/allows to go on in her house. Sometimes we just aren't meant to be friends with people - there's nothing wrong with that.


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## a-sorta-fairytale (Mar 29, 2005)

I too would reconsider CPS.
*10 y/o is being involved in play that is not okay. He is possibly being encouraged by the previously abused 9 y/o to abuse 3 and 4 year old children. If this was my son being shown this behavior i would be livid. This is not something i would want my son to think is normal or okay.

*9 y/o is involved in behavior she knows is unacceptable thus the closed door and shushing of the younger kids. She has previously been abused. She is possibly abusing the 10 y/o, 3 y/o, 4 y/o and the 2 y/o and who knows who else.

All the kids affected by this (including your 4 y/o) may already be or go on to abuse other children. The adult involved in this situation is doing nothing about it. Someone needs to step up and protect these children.


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

I would be so freeking angry







I also have so many questions for that mom! WTF?!?!? I wouldn't ever go over there again, I feel really bad for that 9 y/o girl. Hugs to you, and there is nothing wrong with ditching this "friend" to protect you child from sexual abuse!


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *a-sorta-fairytale* 
I too would reconsider CPS.
*10 y/o is being involved in play that is not okay. He is possibly being encouraged by the previously abused 9 y/o to abuse 3 and 4 year old children. If this was my son being shown this behavior i would be livid. This is not something i would want my son to think is normal or okay.

*9 y/o is involved in behavior she knows is unacceptable thus the closed door and shushing of the younger kids. She has previously been abused. She is possibly abusing the 10 y/o, 3 y/o, 4 y/o and the 2 y/o and who knows who else.

All the kids affected by this (including your 4 y/o) may already be or go on to abuse other children. The adult involved in this situation is doing nothing about it. Someone needs to step up and protect these children.


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## NamastePlatypus (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rayo de sol* 
How is it harsh to make sure that the 9-year-old girl (not to mention the 10-year-old boy) gets professional help?

The older girl is attempting to sexually abuse younger children. What about the safety of her younger sibling? The older girl might already be sexually abusing her younger sibling on a regular basis.

You should try to help both of them because it's clear that the mother is not going to. It's your moral obligation to help these children. These children have no one else to help them but you.

A lot of abused children grow up and wonder why no one ever intervened and helped them. Why is everyone afraid to call CPS?

Please reconsider and call CPS. That's what they're there for. Why wouldn't you call?

I really needed to hear this and this is why I came here. THIS was my initial reaction. I just wanted to make sure I was not jumping the gun. It is hard because our dh's work together and are military. I wanted to sit back and reflect on it and get other outside opinions to make sure I wasn't being to quick to judge and to make sure my decision was not in anger, but deeply considered. Should I talk to her and then CPS or CPS and let it take its course.
I and my mom both said the same thing about oral obligation, my is furious but is on the stance of don't EVER go back ( which I wasn't) and to not even say anything, people like her won't listen and only get mad. Not to mention the whole dh's working together thing.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
I guess I just don't understand why you continue to go over to their house if you basically disagree with everything that the mother does/allows to go on in her house. Sometimes we just aren't meant to be friends with people - there's nothing wrong with that.

I didn't go over there all that much in the first place, and if I did I would go when my son was at therapy and it was just J, who is my shadow. Like I said earlier, I am open minded, around here if I want to have any friends I have to be open minded and accept that not everyone is going to do things my way. I am not one to judge but I do feel like I made to many exceptions with this person even before this.
Thanks again for all the help ladies.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

Is there any way to speak anonymously to a social worker in your area? Personally, I'd feel better about turning a family in to CPS if I'd had a chance to lay it all out _in theory_ to a person who could tell me whether or not what I had seen/heard would result in an investigation, and whether or not my particular community offered resources other than removal (counseling, etc.) There are wonderful services available in some areas. In other areas, what you are describing wouldn't even be looked into, because they are so busy dealing with even worse stuff, and no help would be given.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NamastePlatypus* 
E is my son, which I stated to be 4. She is the ones with DD's not me.
Removed the name, but that was her DD2
I agree I am upset with the mom who sits by and says nothing about it and when she hears of it poos poos it like it were nothing to be worried of. This women was sexually abused as a child and *her oldest DD was as well by a family member already*. It is scary situation to me knowing the backround.










Yeah, that turns it from typical child play to the kid using your son as therapy.

And the door was LOCKED? There isn't a smiley with enough shock.

OMG, and the abused 9 year old is in charge of the 3 and 2 year old.









Oh bad bad bad situation on so many levels.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NamastePlatypus* 
I really needed to hear this and this is why I came here. THIS was my initial reaction. I just wanted to make sure I was not jumping the gun. It is hard because our dh's work together and are military. I wanted to sit back and reflect on it and get other outside opinions to make sure I wasn't being to quick to judge and to make sure my decision was not in anger, but deeply considered. Should I talk to her and then CPS or CPS and let it take its course.

Just call CPS because it doesn't sound like the mother will do anything to help her children no matter what you say to her. The mother is letting her older daughter sexually abuse the younger children. It sounds like she is so far down in denial that I don't know what would wake her up.

The 9-year-old girl and her two younger siblings really need your help!!! Please help them.

You are definitely not jumping the gun. Three little lives hang in the balance here. If the abuse continues unchecked, there's no saying how many people's lives will be impacted negatively by three scarred and battered souls going out into the world.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

I _was_ the sexually abused younger sibling. Because the mother is not taking this seriously, I would definitely call CPS.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smithie* 
Is there any way to speak anonymously to a social worker in your area? Personally, I'd feel better about turning a family in to CPS if I'd had a chance to lay it all out _in theory_ to a person who could tell me whether or not what I had seen/heard would result in an investigation, and whether or not my particular community offered resources other than removal (counseling, etc.) There are wonderful services available in some areas. In other areas, *what you are describing wouldn't even be looked into, because they are so busy dealing with even worse stuff,* and no help would be given.









She can speak anonymously with CPS--if she wants to.

Responding to what I bolded above:

What she's describing is sexual abuse. It doesn't get worse than sexual abuse. The way you phrase it, you minimize what's a completely horrible thing and make it sound like she's making a big deal out of nothing--which couldn't be further from the truth!!!


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NamastePlatypus* 
Not to mention the whole dh's working together thing.









Can I ask: What are you worried might happen in relation to your DH's work if you call CPS?

Short of your DH losing his job (and thereby endangering your family's well-being), I think that helping those three suffering children by calling CPS is more important.

Thank you for wanting to help these children, by the way. There needs to be more people in the world willing to act on behalf of children who have no advocate.


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

I'd definitely call CPS on this one. Coercing a child into sexual play is sexual abuse when there's an age difference of 3 or more years. I'd be very worried for the safety of the children in that house, especially the 3yo. Those children need help.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"The way you phrase it, you minimize what's a completely horrible thing and make it sound like she's making a big deal out of nothing..."

It wasn't my intention to minimize anything. What I'm saying is, if the county/state where she's at is terribly funded and horribly overburdened dealing with, say children raped by adult caregivers, and they are going to either totally ignore this kid-on-kid stuff and/or have no kind of useful help (such as counseling) to offer, that would affect my decision of whether or not to involve CPS.

The OP witnessed an instance of same-age groping in this house. The OP witnessed an incidence of a child 5 years younger being harassed to take off his shirt. The OP witnessed multiple incidences of the children playing behind closed doors. Honest to goodness, while I would keep my kids far away from these people, I would be very conflicted about whether to initiate an action based on this evidence that I thought might lead to an unnecessary removal, particularly in if I lived in an area where CPS was a bare-bones, old-school operation.


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## NamastePlatypus (Jan 22, 2007)

I think I might call 'for advice' on Monday.

I saw this women today at a baby shower for a mutual friend. In the conversation, that VERY day was brought up. After I left had left she said, and this was in front of 5 other women, that her youngest dd was sitting on the couch with the boy and oldest dd with the mom in the room and asked the boy, " if you kiss ____ does that mean you all are going to get married and have babies?" and she and the women went on talking about how 'cute' that is how they think that way. I wanted to vomit and shout at her what was happening. THen she went on to say that she was at the skating rink this week at a class party and that some boy there was 'flirting' with her oldest dd and pushing her down, hard. She thought it was so cute and funny. She went on to joke about how funny it is that us girls always end up with 'the bad boy' because that is what we are taught as kids, that if he likes you he is mean to you. Then meaner he is, the more he likes you. When she was talking to her dd and friends there after seeing that all the girls were gushing about how lucky she was that he liked her, and when she saw that her mom was listening said real fast, ' don't let dad know, he'd shoot him with a shotgun'. ( It is really common here for all the men to get a shotgun when they have a DD and joke around about how it is to sit and clean when a boy comes over and if said boy does anything to DD they will shoot them. I am so ready to get out of here!)
I talked to dh today and he agrees that the dad of the girl that he works with might be better to talk to. Knowing her and how she takes things and gossips, he is more level, and has shown a lot of distaste for how she neglets them during the day to knit and play online.
Once again, thanks again for all those you have given input, I really needed to hear all of this. Please anything else you have to offer, bring it on. I need to hear all you all have to offer.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Did you call CPS yesterday? Any update?

Please help these children!


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