# do I need to protect my daughter from mainstream culture?



## Rosebud1 (Sep 8, 2007)

Sometimes I wonder if I am becoming a bit extreme, but more and more I feel the need to shield my child from so many elements of our modern culture that most parents seem to be just fine with -- poor quality gross food, mass commercialism of childhood, inane and dizzying children's entertainment, dumbing down of culture, adults acting like children and not in a good way, etc etc etc. Things I see as disgusting are almost seen as normal by the vast majority. (Example: a graphic sadistic murder flick that my parents watch without flinching, programming directed at little ones with smart alecky kids and stupid inept adults). I almost want to run off and become Amish! I just see evidence of toxic culture and its effects (I used to teach Kindergarten) everywhere I go just accepted and even embraced without question, and I don't know whether I am just being too negative, overreacting or what. The way I see it, I don't want my kid watching tv, seeing the vast majority of movies, injesting total junk, watching salacious and titilating news media, posting crap on the Internet and playing video games. How can I find my tribe? How far will my family need to withdraw from society to protect itself? It's like I see crassness everywhere!

Do we need to move to a desert island? Or am I losing it?

How can I deal with this, and maybe turn it into a positive? And how can I find similar minded parents to hang with? (I do like Waldorf method teaching, in that it emphasizes maintaining the innocence and imagination of children).

Responses welcome!


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## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

Awww, it can be hard trying to do what's best for your child when there are sooo many things out there you disagree with. I totally understand that.

For me, I think it's important to find a middle ground somewhere. Things you are completely against, things you can live with, things you agree with. Because to completely, 100% shelter her would be harmful in the long run. Because someday, no matter how much you try to protect her, she will go out in the world without you and mingle with the mainstream, and she'll need to know how to be comfortable around things that are different from the beliefs you've instilled in her.

Perhaps you could look in your tribal area and find other mama's who would like to get together who share the same beliefs you do?

Just know you're not alone.


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## magentamomma (Mar 18, 2004)

Yes you should absolutely shelter and protect your children from the all pervasive crap we call culture. Just realize that it is almost impossible to do it completely. We have done our level best, and have received negativity from friends and family, but we stuck to our guns and basically have some pretty innocent kids. My sister fought with me alot, to the point of saying my kids would grow up to hate me, but now that she has her own child, she gets where I am coming from. The Bear is often the talisman for motherhood,because they are fierce protectors of their young. It is your job Momma.


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

I feel the same way. I find like-minded families through LLL and natural food co-ops, raw milk/WAPF groups, alternative HCPs, etc.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magentamomma* 
Yes you should absolutely shelter and protect your children from the all pervasive crap we call culture. Just realize that it is almost impossible to do it completely. We have done our level best, and have received negativity from friends and family, but we stuck to our guns and basically have some pretty innocent kids. My sister fought with me alot, to the point of saying my kids would grow up to hate me, but now that she has her own child, she gets where I am coming from. The Bear is often the talisman for motherhood,because they are fierce protectors of their young. It is your job Momma.









:

My kid is a tv-free waldorf kid so thus far we've avoided most of it. Of course when we start public school the flood gates will have to open a bit wider. It can make you insane so try to be realistic about it and remember that no one is perfect and your child WILL BE OKAY even if a few less than desirable pop culture references make their way into her world. Keep up the good work.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

I am so glad you posted this; this is something I struggle with every day, and my DD is only 17 mo! I see stuff everywhere and think, "ouch-- i don't want my daughter growing up in that kind of world." I don't know how to deal with this, exactly. Right now, we do no TV and no baby gear with clear marketing to kids (so no sposies with Sesame Street designs or sippy cups with Dora). I definitely plan to homeschool.

But it is so hard. This stuff is everywhere. I see *little* kids all the time who probably have very few words-- but they're standing in the aisle, lisping "Dora! Dora!"

I was very encouraged by some friends a few weeks ago, though. They have 8 kids and homeschool. These kids are the most pleasant, amazing kids. They don't seem weird or sheltered or deprived. They play outside and have soccer games with each other and walk around the neighborhood. They read ALL THE TIME. The 14 yo was reading Evelyn Waugh the last time I talked with them.They also don't watch any broadcast television-- only a few movies a week from the library.

They were watching a few of the Olympics events, and the kids were really baffled by the commercial breaks. They honestly did not even get the concept of something on television used to sell things. I think this is amazing and wonderful. I thought about my childhood, and how my sister and I used to run around the house singing Velveta and Kraft Macaroni ads.







Sure, we weren't scarred by the Velveta, but how sad that the marketing is pervasive even to little children.

ETA-- my husband has family land in the Ozarks, and seriously-- some days I think we'll end up there on the top of a mountain by ourselves before this is all over. sigh.


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magentamomma* 
Yes you should absolutely shelter and protect your children from the all pervasive crap we call culture. Just realize that it is almost impossible to do it completely. We have done our level best, and have received negativity from friends and family, but we stuck to our guns and basically have some pretty innocent kids. My sister fought with me alot, to the point of saying my kids would grow up to hate me, but now that she has her own child, she gets where I am coming from. The Bear is often the talisman for motherhood,because they are fierce protectors of their young. It is your job Momma.

Totally.

I also do my best to protect myself from what I believe are the more negative/destructive elements of popular culture--no "fashion" magazines (full of gossip, impossible to live up to beauty standards, etc.), I'm very selective about the movies/TV I watch, and I do my best to avoid "news" shows that consist of celebrity follies and making drama out of peoples' tragedies. And I feel much more at peace than I used to.


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## Kiera09 (Sep 2, 2008)

My answer is different.

My final goal is for my DD to be able to succeed in this world. So I would rather guide her and help her navigate the mainstream world than 'protect' her.

At some point she's going to go out on her own - and I want to make sure that she is well equipped to think for herself and not be overwhelmed by what she sees/experienced.

I knew a few sheltered children growing up (including some relatives) and none of them turned out well. They were either stifled by their parents and have never really become their own people. Or they we overwhelmed when they moved out/went to college and weren't able to get anywhere.


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## magentamomma (Mar 18, 2004)

My kids are not sheltered in the typical sense. We watch Disney at Grandmas and they love Pet Shops and Hannah Montana. We constantly talk about corporate greed, and the motivations and hidden messages in the media. My kids inform their peers about the effects of DDT on wildlife, and how although illegal here we still sell it abroad. I explain that often times Disney products are inferior to the generic counterpart ye cost more. Why because they are selling a name.
I however do not buy Bratz products because I feel they are far too sexually oriented for kids. I will not allow my kids to watch slasher films in my home. PERIOD. Gangsta rap is innapropriate, but a little Fergie never killed anyone. My kids are older, so I have had to make concessions. But not when they were real little and not without deliberation.


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## SpiderMum (Sep 13, 2008)

I am opposed to "sheltering" kids...however I am very much for keeping things they're exposed to age-appropriate. Sheltering to me implies trying to keep your kids from having any knowledge on a subject. To me it's like saying "don't go into a dark ally" and then refusing to tell them why. Pretending something you feel is harmful doesn't exist and letting them know "we don't watch/listen to/do this because..." are two entirely different things.

I have no intention of allowing my kids to watch the Disney channel. Why? Because the majority of the shows are nothing more than watered-down soap operas targeted at "pre-teens" while portraying a lifestyle that is more like something a highschool student would experience. My 11-year-old niece constantly watches these shows and her mother wonders why she's hit the angsty teenage phase so soon. Well duh! She acts like a teenager because that's what she sees! When I was 11 I was still playing with dolls or playing office...11-year-olds are children, yet they are being exposed to media that would be more appropriate for teens 15+. Four years can make a huge difference in your maturity level! Kids just aren't ready for this sort of stuff!

I can't tell you how many 10-year-olds I've seen in PG-13 movies.







Or how many parents I've heard ask to purchase a video game rated Mature for their 12-year-old. When a 9-year-old can sing along to "Promiscuous Girl" word for word...somebody is being a poor excuse for a parent.


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## ChetMC (Aug 27, 2005)

We don't help mainstream elements that we disagree with, but we don't put up excessive barriers either.

For example, we don't generally buy licensed character toys, but I won't start a family feud if a relative buys one for our kids. We don't have complex rules about TV viewing (how much, what and when). We've just created a household where TV is very low key. I want kids who choose to do other things, not kids who watch very little TV, but only because I am the TV police.

I don't want our kids to be outcast because they show up at a birthday party with a list a mile long of things they can't see, eat or do. It's also important to us that our kids ultimately learn to navigate mainstream culture and make good choices within it... as opposed to being as completely shielded from it as possible.

I worry about being too "weird" sometimes. And it's often hard to figure out what's reasonable and what's too much when it comes to filtering out the mainstream elements in an age appropriate way.

I remind myself that I had a pretty mainstream childhood, and I appreciate having been free to find myself. I still found my way to the extreme left, AP parenting, etc.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

For me it's not so much about protecting/isolating, but innoculating. At some point my kids are going to have to function in this world, toxic as it is.

Right now, that means we do shelter them somewhat. Or rather, choose what parts of the culture to expose them to. No tv because I want them to learn to live without "Want" constanly on their minds. I pick the dvds, and some things I let the watch and others I don't would surprise some people. But I'd rather they see something that reinforces our values even if it is a little "old" for them than the mindless drivel that is much of children's television.

As far as cultural issues, while we sheild them from a lot of media, there's no avoiding some things, and we talk about things. Rather than just letting them soak up unthinking what comes through the tube, we talk about these things in detail, in the context of our faith and values, to give them a good basis for handling these things when they grow up.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Some days I feel more and more like you. I'm actually floored, but recently DH has felt this way as well. He's mentioned getting rid of our TV a couple of times. We lived w/o TV for years and got cable about 2 years ago at DH's behest. Now he said he sees all kinds of problems with it and wants to get rid of it.

The biggest thing I'm trying to do is replace what we don't like with things we do. I have scores of concerns for my daughter with relation to gender, and I know we'll have to try hard. I absolutely will not allow Barbie in my house, but I don't say that. We just provide her all types of options for play, so there's no "void" to fill.


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## Greenmama2AJ (Jan 10, 2008)

Loved Spirdermom's answer

Quote:

I am opposed to "sheltering" kids...however I am very much for keeping things they're exposed to age-appropriate.
*I think that you have to do what you feel comfortable with*, but I don't believe that sheltering children from Western culture necessarily protects children from harm.
I believe that knowledge and choice are important aspects of freedom. When the Wiggles become contraban just because they are easily marketed, and therefore easily loved, you need to ask yourself "why do children love the Wiggles?" surely they aren't all brain washed victims of an evil mass media. There are legitimate and innocent reasons kids like Western culture and it doesn't have to turn them into fat consumerists









I think you will find many similiar minds if you start looking around organic and natural communities like this.
Unfortunately, I tend to find that there are many people selling over priced, consumer orientated "organic" products to those searching for a natural life such as you and me.

In the end, our children adopt *our* values and not those of Dora The Explorer, or Thomas the Tank Engine.
So live the life you want and your children will follow.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Talk to other parents: honestly. The media manipulates our perception to believe that we are raising a generation of TV-obsessed additive-addicted couch potatoes, but that isn't the reality for any of my kids friends.
Maybe it's the family who cycle everywhere as a family and love each others company- or the family who have the TV on (on BBC) for half an hour a day and then play a board game together after dinner every night. I know a fair number of people who bake with only wholegrains, a substantial number who eat a properly healthy diet. It's when you go to a committee meeting at a new friends house, and her 10 year old asks when his dad is going to be in because they're reading a story together before bed that you realise that the alleged mainstream isn't anyone's normal: what we do is.

I'm not saying that back-chatting, smart-talking, wise-cracking, rude, arrogant obnoxious little boys don't exist- I recently came across a pair of brothers who are driving me to distraction- but generally, they're far and few between and our children gravitate to their own tribes.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

I have two thoughts about this.

Like you, I am often dismayed, disappointed, or disgusted with many things in "mainstream" culture. Sex, violence, and soft ethics seem to be widespread.

I think many of these influences can shorten the innocence of childhood, and also risk a child not having the time to explore, especially in adolescence, what they really think and feel, outside of all the peer pressure.

But, on the other hand, I think we can do a disservice to our children if we don't expose them to "mainstream" things, protect them too much, shield them from anything deemed bad, and in the end, fail to equip them to deal with some of these realities of life.

I try to balance by being very selective about what we spend time and money on, but I don't censor things and I don't hide things. Rather, I just try to frame and explain the things I don't agree with. For instance, when it comes to television, video games, etc, I will limit, but I won't withhold.

It is a real struggle for me because my husband is very much the same as he was when he was a teenager when it comes to television, video games, movies, etc. My husband thinks nothing of watching cartoons like The Family Guy or Beavis and Butthead (totally adult shows) but my child sometimes is drawn to the cartoon and can't distinguish The Family Guy from, say, Sesame Street. So, I have to remind my DH to please watch adult cartoons when our child isn't around.

DH thinks nothing of watching loud and violent themed movies in front of our child. That may have been ok (debatable) when our child was an infant, but now our child is an impressionable child who is talking and thinking and mimicking. I want to filter the violent themes a bit.

I have a friend, though, who covers the ears of her children all the time and won't allow tv news to play in front of them. I think that's a bit extreme. I understand the concern, but I think kids need to grow up equipped to deal with the real world, and process their emotions about it.

Balance, balance, balance (and parental judgement and control)


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magentamomma* 
My kids are not sheltered in the typical sense. We watch Disney at Grandmas and they love Pet Shops and Hannah Montana. We constantly talk about corporate greed, and the motivations and hidden messages in the media. My kids inform their peers about the effects of DDT on wildlife, and how although illegal here we still sell it abroad. I explain that often times Disney products are inferior to the generic counterpart ye cost more. Why because they are selling a name.
I however do not buy Bratz products because I feel they are far too sexually oriented for kids. I will not allow my kids to watch slasher films in my home. PERIOD. Gangsta rap is innapropriate, but a little Fergie never killed anyone. My kids are older, so I have had to make concessions. But not when they were real little and not without deliberation.

i couldnt have said this any better, we are exactly the same, except that I could ramp up my talks with them about corporate greed...

and we NEVER buy things just because so and so is on it. particularly food, but it helps that we buy mostly organic, so we avoid the character references anyhow..... the kids are always like.. oh oh look!! and we talk a lot about how that food isnt healthy and we arent buying just because such and such is on it..

while my kids ARE exposed to movies and television, it is limited and we try to spend more time doing sports and letterboxing, going to the beach, the park....


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

My kids were extremely sheltered, especially dd, as young children, and we were part of a community (waldorf) that encouraged tht effort. It was fine, and very appropriate as young children, and I am not sorry that we did things that way. I was alarmed however at the older children I saw who were raised in such a restictive environment. They seemed to have little ability to self regulate around electronics/media, all the "forbidden" stuff. These were the kids who were overboard with the stuff I was initially trying to protect my kids from. They had a lot of learning to do about being savvy about the world and media and thinking critically about what was out there. So for our family, we do as a pp said-make sure our kids exposure to what's out there is age appropriate, which is a tough battle all on it's own! We are clear about our values, we talk about why we may allow one video, but not the other, what commercials are all about, etc. I want them to learn to think for themselves and I am enjoying and trusting their learning process around this.

To me, as they got *older,* the easy way out would have been to have no media, no pop culture, etc. But I actually think we fool ourseleves if we think we have total control over this, because unless you live in a bubble you don't. For our family, it's been far better to have the boundaries be more flexible, talk about what's out there, and give my kids the tools they need to navigate the world-my super cruncy version of it, as well as more mainstream society.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karne* 
My kids were extremely sheltered, especially dd, as young children, and we were part of a community (waldorf) that encouraged tht effort. It was fine, and very appropriate as young children, and I am not sorry that we did things that way. I was alarmed however at the older children I saw who were raised in such a restictive environment. They seemed to have little ability to self regulate around electronics/media, all the "forbidden" stuff. These were the kids who were overboard with the stuff I was initially trying to protect my kids from. They had a lot of learning to do about being savvy about the world and media and thinking critically about what was out there. .

I can totally see how this would happen. The question, though, is what to do about it.
I use facebook and text messaging and e-mail, and here I am on this board.... I feel like I spend too much time engaging with electronics rather than people, but I use it FAR less than most of the people I see around me. My sister and her boyfriend used to text a lot, and it was literally impossible to have a conversation with her without her texting him 2 or 3 times. It was maddening. Now that they have broken up, I feel like we have a relationship again. It was *that* consuming.
I know this is partially because of personality, but: I probably read 500 books from junior high through highschool. My sister, 2 years younger, read maybe 100. I think my brothers read the 10 or 15 required for hs and the Harry Potter series. That's it. It's not becuase they didn't like reading, but because they used all their time playing video games, watching tv, and texting. This is so sad to me.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angela&avery* 
i couldnt have said this any better, we are exactly the same, except that I could ramp up my talks with them about corporate greed...

and we NEVER buy things just because so and so is on it. particularly food, but it helps that we buy mostly organic, so we avoid the character references anyhow..... the kids are always like.. oh oh look!! and we talk a lot about how that food isnt healthy and we arent buying just because such and such is on it..

while my kids ARE exposed to movies and television, it is limited and we try to spend more time doing sports and letterboxing, going to the beach, the park....











This is what I try to do as well.

Just curious if your spouses/partners are on board with this, too? My husband was raised in a very mainstream and tv/video game/etc oriented home and he thinks anything other than that is strange or weird or counter culture or something. I get flack about that all the time.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

When I get frustrated with our society, I remind myself that I can't control society but I can control my household and live life by our ideals.

You control what comes in the door, and when the time comes explain your choices to your child. Instead of sheltering, what you are doing is exposing your child to your values, and hopefully giving them the tools to choose well when they are older.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
When I get frustrated with our society, I remind myself that I can't control society but I can control my household and live life by our ideals.

You control what comes in the door, and when the time comes explain your choices to your child. Instead of sheltering, what you are doing is exposing your child to your values, and hopefully giving them the tools to choose well when they are older.











This is exactly how I feel.







I think this is why I struggle so much with whether to stay or leave my husband. His values are so, so different than mine, and so I can't even really live life by my ideals, without coming under fire all the time. I really wish DH and I were on the same page when it comes to raising children.


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## MommyJoia (Oct 31, 2007)

I didn't read the whole thread, but I got down to the Ozarks post. I would absolutely LOVE to have a nice big piece of land with plenty of room for a big garden and a little live stock and just cut myself (mostly) away from "mainstream"

Short of joining a commune, I really don't see this as a realistic choice, but boy do I day-dream about it.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 

I'm not saying that back-chatting, smart-talking, wise-cracking, rude, arrogant obnoxious little boys don't exist- I recently came across a pair of brothers who are driving me to distraction- but generally, they're far and few between and our children gravitate to their own tribes.

So far they've been the majority here. I'm about to resign from my postition as childcare person and sundayschool teacher at church because of it. It's gotten so bad that I make my own child stay home so he's out of their influence........this is the 3rd church we've attended here with the same problem. Our playgroup is pretty good, but we do occasionally get someone new that has completely out of control kids. Luckily they don't last long because they realize that we tend to keep our own kids near us and away from the child that is acting out.

edited to add: we don't force them out or anything, we just make it very clear that if they aren't going to get up of their tush and make their kid quit throwing sand in other kids' faces, quit hitting, pushing etc....ask them to refrain from profanity at playgroup, then we'll do it for them. So far they've either started parenting their own kids so we don't have to, or quit coming to playgroup.


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## OvenSeeksBun (Sep 11, 2008)

This was a conversation between two little girls at the preschool I work at. All of the other staff thought it was adorable and really funny.

A: My sister got High School Musical shoes.
B: I don't like High School Musical shoes.
A: Yes you do! You like everything High School Musical (she has the backpack, lunch box, and other random merchandise)
B: No! I like good shoes, and good shoes don't come from Wal Mart!!

This made me kind of sad. You should see this girl's wardrobe, from $80 jeans to $60+ shoes. She's 4 years old and already thinking this way.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OvenSeeksBun* 
This was a conversation between two little girls at the preschool I work at. All of the other staff thought it was adorable and really funny.

A: My sister got High School Musical shoes.
B: I don't like High School Musical shoes.
A: Yes you do! You like everything High School Musical (she has the backpack, lunch box, and other random merchandise)
B: No! I like good shoes, and good shoes don't come from Wal Mart!!

This made me kind of sad. You should see this girl's wardrobe, from $80 jeans to $60+ shoes. She's 4 years old and already thinking this way.











Oh my! That is sad.


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

My problem is that lots of "mainstream things" take away from the childhood experience. The mountain of junk food degrades their health. The tv robs them of creative and free playtime. The branding of all things child limits their choices and subversively steers their interests. The videogames lock them inside and keep them isolated.

At what level are these things ok? For some people the answer is "None". For others, it's "Whole hog- might as well use/enjoy". For many, there is an inbetween. The key is KNOWING and and aknowledging that these things are not healthy and not deluding ourselves by making excuses for them and then dealing with them in the real world.

Is eating Halloween candy and birthday cake technically unhealthy, but fun and part of the experience of enjoying life? To me, yes. So I am willing to make that balance. Is TV essentially crap? Yup. So we don't have one, but if we are at grandma's, I'll let her rent Winnie the Pooh or a Sesame Street DVD and let them both be happy snuggling on the couch and have that memory. I know these things are less than perfect, but in their very small imperfect way, they can make a rounded view of life.

And it IS age dependent. At 4, my son does not benefit from the vast majority of mainstream culture. At this age, he is not developmentally able to understand the idea or the methods of manipulations of commercials. A food "treat" every once in a while is fun, but he is too young to really exercize the self control for moderation. We DO start to talk about that other kids may have different rules than we do, that they may use different words than what we think is respectful and polite and that he seems to be able to understand to some degree. At this age, what he needs more than life lessons in exposure is a protected space to explore, be outside, creative, learn about himself, enjoy the things that make childhood beautiful, and to allow his innocence to take it's turn to enable him to see the world in a way that he will loose in the years to come. As he gets older, we will accept more and allow more to enter our lives in a way that lets him experience it without being engulfed by it. But for very young children, there is little benefit and much drawback of lots of cultural junk. As they get older, guidance and age appropriate introductions are important, but in a way that still preserves their rights to physical, emotional and spiritual health.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyJoia* 
I didn't read the whole thread, but I got down to the Ozarks post. I would absolutely LOVE to have a nice big piece of land with plenty of room for a big garden and a little live stock and just cut myself (mostly) away from "mainstream"

Short of joining a commune, I really don't see this as a realistic choice, but boy do I day-dream about it.

We do have this, and I think that it helps to balance out some of the electronic stuff. My kids are elementary aged, and their day includes animal care and tending to their gardens, which are set amidst our large garden. So, they can watch a nature or PBS video about animals or plants, or anything else for that matter, but they also have their hands in the dirt and know what real life farm animals are like. They also see the gamut of birth to death in this way, and we do not shelter them from it. Our structure includes no tv on schooldays, no one has hand held video games at this point, etc. But they do access websites like PBS kids, or for dd the Bella Sara website. Time limited, and I am always present.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
My problem is that lots of "mainstream things" take away from the childhood experience.

Yes!










I strongly believe that, too.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

I really feel that it is my job to help my DD learn to navigate the society in which we live, so I don't shelter her from things, but I do try to help her understand them. The biggest thing I want for her to have strong critical thinking skills and a good internal compass. I want her to look within and use her reason and logical to evaluate and overcome things. She's here watching Saturday morning cartoons while I write this.

This morning she went with me for a blood draw this morning (sprinkle babydust for me and think conceptual thoughts!) There was another baby there getting blood drawn and screaming. And I talked to her about how hard it was to explain things to a baby. They just know pain and why is this happening with mommy. But she and I could think about things. We could understand why I will willing to undergo a needlestick to see if my body had what it needed to support a baby. I know that's not really a mainstream thing, but it's an example of not sheltering, but exposing her to stuff, with me there.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ellien C* 
I really feel that it is my job to help my DD learn to navigate the society in which we live, so I don't shelter her from things, but I do try to help her understand them. The biggest thing I want for her to have strong critical thinking skills and a good internal compass.











Absolutely agree!


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kiera09* 
I knew a few sheltered children growing up (including some relatives) and none of them turned out well. They were either stifled by their parents and have never really become their own people. Or they we overwhelmed when they moved out/went to college and weren't able to get anywhere.

Well, my experience is different. I was a "sheltered" kid in many ways growing up. We didn't have a t.v. until my older sisters were in middle or high school, I was nine, and my younger brother was eight. When we were finally gifted with a tv, my parents kept it in a closet and only brought it out for very specific shows for at least a year. We ate all-natural foods, most prepared at home. We never bought things with characters on them, though when my sisters were preteens, there were plenty of Guess jeans and things around. Yada yada yada.

We didn't grow up in a bubble because one doesn't exist. We still saw tv at neighbors homes and stuff, though I can't remember ever watching something until I was seven or so and a neighbor kid invited me over to watch a movie with her. I remember getting my introduction to video games when I was about eight and on a family vacation when we were staying at a cousin's house. But yeah, we were semi-protected from mass media and mainstream marketing.

We're all fine.

My oldest sister taught school, then worked in ministry for a while, and is now teaching school again. She is also working on her masters, as she has an interest in becoming a principal. This sister has always been a voracious reader. One thing my parents didn't censor ever was books, so admittedly in her teen years, my sister read one trashy romance novel after another. But she has an incredible imagination, benefits from sharp intellectual skills, and has a *very* active, artistic, and sporty life with her two children. Her kids are more exposed to things like mass media and video games because their father has no sense of boundaries around those things. They have a bit of an "attitude" but I don't know whether that is because of the media input they have or more because of their life circumstances with their father.

The sister closest to me in age is an attorney. She didn't flounder at college. She went straight through, and then went to law school. My sister's strengths include creative problem-solving skills, determination and ability to focus her attention, an imaginative sense of humor, and great reasoning and sharp intellectual skills. She is sporty and extremely active, watches a little tv but mostly is too busy with other stuff. While my oldest sister keeps a blog, etc., this sister doesn't usually use the internet for things other than email.

My younger brother, who had the most childhood media exposure of all of us (since the tv arrived when he was eight) from the outside at least appears the most "lost." He floundered in his young adult years, and went in and out of college never quite sure what he wanted to do. He eventually did complete his bachelors, and is now teaching. Both he and the sister I just described have been world-travelers. For my sister, she has a bit more focus of intent when traveling, for my brother, it comes off more as wandering and being lost. He recently married, though, and is doing pretty well. His biggest strengths are his artistic nature and his sharp intellectual skills and great curiousity.

I did *very* well in college, am happily married and in a ministry, have been a foster mom for a number of years and have two children. We don't have a tv in our home, though we dw and I use our computer to watch movies sometimes when the kids are in bed. The only things my kids are allowed to watch in general are Signing Time videos (www.signingtime.com), which they love but watch only once or twice per week. Periodically I have let them watch a documentary on an animal, or on trains or something, like when one of them has been sick. dw once let them watch just twenty minutes of the movie "Cars," and I admit I gave her a hard time about it afterward.

We do eat out about once a week, and even eat some fast food sometimes, and my kids go shopping with me as needed, so my kids probably recognize some brand symbols. For example, if we pass by a Dunkin Donuts, they do sometimes ask for an egg sandwich because when we were moving, that was breakfast for a while until we got settled







. I will admit I have an addiction to soda, which we didn't have in our house when I was a kid, and one of my sisters does like soda a lot too, but my other sister and my brother are not into soda at all (50/50 split isn't bad). I treat soda as an adult drink currently, though. Generally dw and I try to live a natural and good life, avoid buying mass marketed crap and so on. But we are pretty balanced too.

One of the biggest differences I find between my siblings and our peers is that we are not de-sensitized to violence, including emotional violence.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grniys* 
For me, I think it's important to find a middle ground somewhere. . .Because someday, no matter how much you try to protect her, she will go out in the world without you and mingle with the mainstream, and she'll need to know how to be comfortable around things that are different from the beliefs you've instilled in her.

This is my approach generally as well. We don't have a tv, but I didn't reject the Dora patio table and chair set one of the relatives gave my kids as a birthday gift. They have Nemo backpacks because they wanted "the ones with fishies on them" but don't really know who Nemo is. Sometimes people will see their backpacks and be like, "Hey! Nemo!" and I will have to explain that the kids see them as just fish. On the other hand, I did donate the kartwheeling Elmo toy someone gave ds for his first Christmas. When other kids are around and are talking about media stuff, I try to just talk with my kids later about what they heard and thought, and help them develop reasoning skills around this stuff.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breeder* 
My kid is a tv-free waldorf kid so thus far we've avoided most of it. Of course when we start public school the flood gates will have to open a bit wider. It can make you insane so try to be realistic about it and remember that no one is perfect and your child WILL BE OKAY even if a few less than desirable pop culture references make their way into her world.

I like the Waldorf emphasis on letting kids be kids too, but I personally believe the educational theory is not sound, so I am having to strike a balance sooner with my kids. Right now ds goes to a once weekly Montessori program for homeschooled children. The kid closest in age to him seems like he is being raised similarly to ds, which is a relief. The oldest kid in the class doesn't seem to get a lot of media/pop culture input either. There is one little girl, though, who seems to be pretty media/pop culture focused. She has a lunch box with characters, eats Dora yogurt (though she says she would prefer Ariel yogurt), has fruit snacks, etc. She also has a bit of an attitude. I try to take your approach in that nothing can be perfect and it is important to be realistic. I too think my kids will be OKAY even with that kind of stuff going on around them. I know I was.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cappuccinosmom* 
No tv because I want them to learn to live without "Want" constanly on their minds.

Yes! That is a large reason we are tv-free. (Ah, but my kids do get the mail, and both LOVE "shopping" the catalogs LOL! I don't know where he got this from, but ds will flip through the pages of a catalog saying, "want that" as he points at different pictures.









I also, like you, avoid tv to keep things in better alignment with our values. Also, I think that the images on tv can be difficult to disect for children, even when they are innocent. Kids take them at face value, and rehearse what they see (and even what they read...I really hate books in which characters tease and taunt other characters, and it is spelled out...because mental rehearsal from stories is a proven phenomena even in cases where the book is trying to show the damage of those behaviors).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greenmama2AJ* 
I believe that knowledge and choice are important aspects of freedom. When the Wiggles become contraban just because they are easily marketed, and therefore easily loved, you need to ask yourself "why do children love the Wiggles?" surely they aren't all brain washed victims of an evil mass media. There are legitimate and innocent reasons kids like Western culture and it doesn't have to turn them into fat consumerists









And I would agree with that too. A lot of times those products that are so widely marketed, are wildely marketed because people are responding to them. If there is a need that is being filled, it is important to recognize that need and find ways the need can be addressed with or without the marketed products.

Quote:

Unfortunately, I tend to find that there are many people selling over priced, consumer orientated "organic" products to those searching for a natural life such as you and me.
Absolutely! This is an important point. By going "all natural," we end up being a niche market, rather than dropping out of the market entirely.

Quote:

In the end, our children adopt *our* values and not those of Dora The Explorer, or Thomas the Tank Engine.
So live the life you want and your children will follow.
This is very true. We need to stay calm enough to remember that as parents, *we* are the prime influence in the lives of our children.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I'm not saying that back-chatting, smart-talking, wise-cracking, rude, arrogant obnoxious little boys don't exist- I recently came across a pair of brothers who are driving me to distraction- but generally, they're far and few between and our children gravitate to their own tribes.

You know, I think you are right to a large degree. My ministry includes about 100 families with about 140 kids. Most of the kids have some sort of media influence, some quite a bit. A minority have some resulting attitudes and behaviors I find less than desireable. But if you get to know these kids a bit better, you find that they are also just kids. They are good at heart, and want to do the right things, and are trying to sort out the world around them. They simply have to wrestle with more, at a younger age. But again, they are in essence, good kids, and evidence leads me to believe that in the longrun, they will be fine.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karne* 
It was fine, and very appropriate as young children, and I am not sorry that we did things that way. I was alarmed however at the older children I saw who were raised in such a restictive environment.

I think the age of first exposure also must be a factor. It's an area I suspect hasn't been researched since so few families are mass media-free, but I would be really interested in any research on this topic.

Here is what I noticed. My sisters did fine with the introduction of tv into our home when they were in middle/high school. They were able to self-regulate fairly well, they were able to contextualize what they saw, and they had other well-established interests. My brother and I, I think, were in a more sensitive period. Particularly me, as I was entering my pre-teen years but didn't yet have the ability to contextualize so it was difficult for me not to take on behaviors I saw on tv as my own.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *That Is Nice* 
Just curious if your spouses/partners are on board with this, too? My husband was raised in a very mainstream and tv/video game/etc oriented home and he thinks anything other than that is strange or weird or counter culture or something. I get flack about that all the time.

I don't get flack from dw. She knew this was part of the package when we decided to have kids together. She knew this wasn't an area about which I felt very flexible. *But* she is less sensitive to it. For example, dw's parents are elderly, and our family is spending a lot of time over at their home right now. Their practice is to have the tv blaring all the time, even as background noise, and FIL doesn't enjoy watching anything but the violent action adventures.

dw was able to let her family know our limits with this stuff, and when my kids are around, my MIL and FIL make an effort to keep the tv turned down or turned off, and my MIL helps keep my kids distracted in another room when FIL is watching his shows (my kids can still hear it, but they seem to be attending to other stuff for the most part). *However,* sometimes I will hear stuff in the background that makes me want to get the kids out of the house right this minute! dw doesn't always notice this stuff because she grew up around it.

Also, dw didn't see a problem with letting the kids watch a segment of "Cars" the other day, but I was personally not supportive of that.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

p.s. Funny that I should read this post today. Just last night I was at the bookstore looking at chapter books for young readers. I was shocked at how much of the stuff out there right now was all about bratty behavior.


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## eden/averymum (Jun 13, 2005)

I think we all need protection from the mainstreem!


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## sweetpeppers (Dec 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ledzepplon* 
Totally.

I also do my best to protect myself from what I believe are the more negative/destructive elements of popular culture--no "fashion" magazines (full of gossip, impossible to live up to beauty standards, etc.), I'm very selective about the movies/TV I watch, and I do my best to avoid "news" shows that consist of celebrity follies and making drama out of peoples' tragedies. And I feel much more at peace than I used to.










This is very good advice. Hypocritical parenting is doomed from the start. However, be aware that restrictions can have the opposite effect from what you want. I think rather than "protecting" our children, we need to make sure we keep an open dialogue with them. My parents did a lot of "protecting" and we did a lot of sneaking around. As a result, we have/had a totally superficial relationship, which always happens when your kids are afraid of you.


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## Kinipela79 (Apr 8, 2003)

I guess I'm a bad mom since my two boys are playing the Xbox that my brother sent them right now!









Seriously though, while I make sure that I'm the filter for what comes into the house, I try not to freak out about it too much. We eat healthy...lot of fruits, veggies, etc but sometimes we buy the junky cereal that comes with the junky toy. We don't do a ton of "screen time" but both the boys (4 1/2 and 10) love to watch Dirty Jobs, Mythbusters, Bizzare Foods, and those Growing Up ___ shows on Animal Planet. We've been gifted a Gameboy Advance and the Xbox and they love to play it but I have yet to see them become obsessed and crazed about it. The most important thing to me, like pp have mentioned, is being able to self filter and think for themselves. So far it seems to be working. My 10 year old is insanely confident, is a peacemaker in the school yard, and the most caring big brother I have ever seen (and one heck of a chess player!). The little one is full of love for his friends, loves to create, full of energy and loves to annoy his patient older brother! They both love to be out in nature and have a deep respect for all living things. We are a family of book nerds and have book shelves overflowing with books. They are exposed to the classical music world through me and my DH. DS1 isn't fazed by what he's told by commercials that he should have because we talk about it a lot. And now I see him talking about it with DS2 which I think is great. (Don't be fooled...they have the ability to be the biggest buttheads ever at times!







) I don't think that there is any fool proof formula to raise children to become compassionate, free thinking human beings. So when you see my kids talking about the latest episode of MythBusters and the junky cereal in my cart...please don't judge...just know that I am doing what I think is best for my boys and my long term goals are probably the same as yours!







:


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## LotusBirthMama (Jun 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eden/averymum* 
I think we all need protection from the mainstreem!

Is there a vaccine to protect me fromthe insidious mainstream I keep hearing about??


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## pumpkinyum (Mar 27, 2007)

Moderation is the key to life.


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## henny penny (Mar 26, 2008)

It can be overwhelming thinking of all the things we want to protect our children from. In the end I think we all have to learn to live in the world and instead of focusing on the bad things I have an urge to shelter ds from, I try to focus on the things I want his young life to be filled with: lots of freedom outdoors to explore and discover himself, family meals with long conversation, celebration of our accomplishments in a modest way, holiday traditions, experiencing travel together, and the making of our own family culture. I recommend this book too often on mdc but it helped me put these issues in perspective; Heaven on Earth by Sharifa Oppenheimer.
In our house most of the "nasty" influences are eliminated by having no tv and having only a few carefully chosen toys.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

You can easily avoid exposing your daughter to 99% of all the stuff that bothers you simply by not having a television.

I don't consider that to be excessive sheltering. My kids (5 and 8) know plenty about the world, the good and bad. They know about the war, about good and evil; they listen to NPR. At school they have learned about plenty of superheroes from their friends.

But they aren't being pervasively marketed to by commercials and they aren't watching a screen daily (except for our weekly movie night). They are outside playing or inside reading or playing legos etc. That's what works for us and I don't consider our family "extreme." My boys are neither naive nor uncomfortable around kids who have been exposed to far more media.

As for eating, it's neither difficult nor "avoiding society" to avoid fast "food" restaurants.


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## stickywicket67 (Jan 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greenmama2AJ* 
In the end, our children adopt *our* values and not those of Dora The Explorer, or Thomas the Tank Engine.
So live the life you want and your children will follow.

*i agree. i want those values to be concepts like compassion, integrity, non violent communication and not being judgmental of others.*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karne* 
My kids were extremely sheltered, especially dd, as young children, and we were part of a community (waldorf) that encouraged tht effort. It was fine, and very appropriate as young children, and I am not sorry that we did things that way. I was alarmed however at the older children I saw who were raised in such a restictive environment. They seemed to have little ability to self regulate around electronics/media, all the "forbidden" stuff. These were the kids who were overboard with the stuff I was initially trying to protect my kids from. They had a lot of learning to do about being savvy about the world and media and thinking critically about what was out there. So for our family, we do as a pp said-make sure our kids exposure to what's out there is age appropriate, which is a tough battle all on it's own! We are clear about our values, we talk about why we may allow one video, but not the other, what commercials are all about, etc. I want them to learn to think for themselves and I am enjoying and trusting their learning process around this.

To me, as they got *older,* the easy way out would have been to have no media, no pop culture, etc. But I actually think we fool ourseleves if we think we have total control over this, because unless you live in a bubble you don't. For our family, it's been far better to have the boundaries be more flexible, talk about what's out there, and give my kids the tools they need to navigate the world-my super crunchy version of it, as well as more mainstream society.

*exactly! not to burst anyone's bubble (or bash on Waldorf) but i know a couple adults who were Waldorf schooled from kindy- graduation and they are not intrinsically better people because of it. actually, neither of them are very emotionally intelligent and i don't find them to be any more kind or wise or mature than other adults who grew up going to mainstream public school. (they do get a lot of pride with identifying themselves as being "Waldorf") i don't believe schooling or religion or Girl Scouts/Boy Scouts or this club or that club will *guarantee* a child will grow up to be a good person.*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaterPrimaePuellae* 
I can totally see how this would happen. The question, though, is what to do about it.
I use facebook and text messaging and e-mail, and here I am on this board.... I feel like I spend too much time engaging with electronics rather than people, but I use it FAR less than most of the people I see around me. My sister and her boyfriend used to text a lot, and it was literally impossible to have a conversation with her without her texting him 2 or 3 times. It was maddening. Now that they have broken up, I feel like we have a relationship again. It was *that* consuming.
I know this is partially because of personality, but: I probably read 500 books from junior high through highschool. My sister, 2 years younger, read maybe 100. I think my brothers read the 10 or 15 required for hs and the Harry Potter series. That's it. It's not becuase they didn't like reading, but because they used all their time playing video games, watching tv, and texting. This is so sad to me.

*
i read thousands of books as a kid, teenager and young adult but i don't think that makes me any better of a person than my dh who hates reading and spent most of his childhood watching Bugs Bunny and playing video games.

as a teen i also spent many hours on the phone with my boyfriend but that had more to do with my parent's inability to relate to me than it did with us having a phone in the house. (for the record- we had limited tv time, never ate junk food, weren't allowed to dress super trendy or play video games and my parents harassed me constantly about even having a boyfriend and being on the phone)

my dh's parents, on the other hand, made their house the hang out spot and weren't so hung up on denouncing every aspect of pop culture that crossed the threshold. he also has fond memories of himself and his friends hanging out with his parents cooking, playing board games, watching movies and talking.

the key here is "engaging". his parents engaged him and his sister in conversations about the goings on in the world from entertainment to more serious issues. they used it as a jumping off point to relate to their kids instead of refusing to acknowledge the existence of the culture they lived in.*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
When I get frustrated with our society, I remind myself that I can't control society but I can control my household and live life by our ideals.

You control what comes in the door, and when the time comes explain your choices to your child. Instead of sheltering, what you are doing is exposing your child to your values, and hopefully giving them the tools to choose well when they are older.

*yes!*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kinipela79* 
i don't think that there is any fool proof formula to raise children to become compassionate, free thinking human beings. So when you see my kids talking about the latest episode of MythBusters and the junky cereal in my cart...please don't judge...just know that I am doing what I think is best for my boys and my long term goals are probably the same as yours!







:

*i agree 100% with this. i think it is very judgmental and dangerously egotistical to decide that parents who buy their kids Dora stuff, etc...are bad parents and if a parent doesn't then they must be *good* parents. i'm not saying rush out and buy your kid all the silly junk that's out there or don't set limits on watching tv but make choices from a place of positivity rather than fear. it's good to want them to enjoy their day to day life rather than escape it. replace those escapist junky things with activities and pursuits that are in line with your values and spend time with your kids. try to understand why those pop culture things are appealing to your child and fill that need in a way that is more authentic to you and your values.*


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## Kiera09 (Sep 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stickywicket67* 
*i agree 100% with this. i think it is very judgmental and dangerously egotistical to decide that parents who buy their kids Dora stuff, etc...are bad parents and if a parent doesn't then they must be *good* parents. i'm not saying rush out and buy your kid all the silly junk that's out there or don't set limits on watching tv but make choices from a place of positivity rather than fear. it's good to want them to enjoy their day to day life rather than escape it. replace those escapist junky things with activities and pursuits that are in line with your values and spend time with your kids. try to understand why those pop culture things are appealing to your child and fill that need in a way that is more authentic to you and your values.*

I agree with this.

My DD LOVES Dora. She loved Dora without having seen a single episode. How? Her older cousin has some Dora toys - and plays with them. Her cousin has elaborate imagination games which may or may not have any reference to the show's framework. But my DD saw the toys and loved to play with her cousin. So she grew to love Dora.

We do own a small Dora stuffie and one of Boots. That's all the Dora stuff we own. My DD still sees it everywhere and it brings her alot of joy to see it, comment on it, and hold it while we shop. It's not going to wreck her. And it's teaching her already that we don't buy everything we see.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
So far they've been the majority here. I'm about to resign from my postition as childcare person and sundayschool teacher at church because of it. It's gotten so bad that I make my own child stay home so he's out of their influence........this is the 3rd church we've attended here with the same problem. Our playgroup is pretty good, but we do occasionally get someone new that has completely out of control kids. Luckily they don't last long because they realize that we tend to keep our own kids near us and away from the child that is acting out.


OK, I have to fess up here. These two kids bugging the heck out of me just moved over here from the States, but I was trying not to get all colonialist about it







: Like I said, I figure I can learn something from most people and most families.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

The whole division of mainstream vs. good kind of bothers me. I guess I just don't think it's that simple.

I agree that we need to protect our children from things that we think will disturb them; that's a no-brainer to me. But lots of non-mainstream things are violent and disturbing.

I also agree that we need to provide them with a wide range of activities. We don't have broadcast television in our house - we don't want to pay for cable and live in a funny nook where you can't really get it off the air. I do think that for us it works out well. We do have DVDs but we chose them with care and limit our viewing some.

But that's our genuine values for all of us - I don't want to waste my time getting sucked into the latest reality show thing, etc. At some point I expect my son to start getting really interested in tv (hopefully for the good things like the science shows too) and if he does, I am open to having a family discussion about whether we want to reprioritize.

When it comes to buying things, I like to practice thoughtful purchasing. But if there were a pair of quality, ethically made shoes that also had pictures of Elmo or Diego on them, and my son needed shoes, I honestly am not sure I would care if they were branded any more than if they were blue, or if they had celtic symbols on them. I think it's kind of - well, human, to decorate things and I'm not sure I value one kind of decoration over another, any more.

Also, I would suspect we've all met people who over-consume in the name of non-mainstream. I had a funny experience with that with a family that was really trying to get us to enroll our son in a local Waldorf school and emphasizing in the same conversation how Waldorf was totally non-consumeristic and they'd spent some ungodly amount on the perfect handmade playstand and silks... obviously that is their choice but I'll go for the garage sale stuff thanks - reuse being one of the three rs.









I think also sometimes people use _mainstream_ to mean _popular_ and to get suspicious of anything popular. Well, we have the original Thomas the Tank Engine stories. They're delightful. We don't reject them just because everyone else likes them. Nor do we approve them because they are. We try to use our judgment, and also to respect our son's tastes.

All things in moderation, including moderation, is kind of my motto.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
I'm about to resign from my postition as childcare person and sundayschool teacher at church because of it

I recently stopped leading the children's choir at church for this reason. I was putting in significant time every week writing the skits, finding music, making props, etc. to go into a roomful of 8YOs who spent the whole time saying "this is stupid," "I'm bored," "I don't want to be here." We tried various things to deal with it - having one adult who was responsible for stepping out with particularly disruptive ones, asking what they wanted to do, being stern. Nothing helped, and the sad part is that I've seen their parents giggle at their behavior and make comments about how "cute" it is.


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cappuccinosmom* 
For me it's not so much about protecting/isolating, but innoculating. At some point my kids are going to have to function in this world, toxic as it is.

Right now, that means we do shelter them somewhat. Or rather, choose what parts of the culture to expose them to. No tv because I want them to learn to live without "Want" constanly on their minds. I pick the dvds, and some things I let the watch and others I don't would surprise some people. But I'd rather they see something that reinforces our values even if it is a little "old" for them than the mindless drivel that is much of children's television.

As far as cultural issues, while we sheild them from a lot of media, there's no avoiding some things, and we talk about things. Rather than just letting them soak up unthinking what comes through the tube, we talk about these things in detail, in the context of our faith and values, to give them a good basis for handling these things when they grow up.









:

That's the kind of vaccinating we like!









Right now we're "sheltering" DD, just as we protect children from any harmful elements and situations. Then we'll gradually expose her to many parts of the world, while offering her tools for understanding them as a critical thinker. I like to think of Mary Wollstonecraft's writings when it comes to this issue-- you can't expose them too young, or they'll grow up jaded and cynical (and possibly just products of that culture), and you can't just wait and let it spring upon them like a monster when they are older, or they will feel betrayed and have no way of dealing... you have to guide them through exposure gradually, as they become ready. It's going to be a tough call as we go!

But to the OP, yes, we are finding we are more and more pulling away from mainstream culture and intend to let DD grow up for some time away from its influence, in earliest formative years.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

It is so difficult to strike a balance that feels right! There are just so MANY influences leaping for your attention all day, everywhere you go.

I feel that my parents overall found a pretty good balance between blocking bad stuff and allowing us to experience what's out there...with occasional mistakes in both directions, either allowing something that was hard for me to handle or forbidding something I really wanted that probably wouldn't have hurt me. We did a lot of talking and critical thinking about what's available vs. what's desirable. It turned out okay, and I try to find the same kind of balance for EnviroKid.

One thing I think is helpful is talking about times you made a mistake in judgment for yourself, relating it to the judgment you're making for your child. For example, when EnviroKid was angry that I turned off the TV when he wanted to watch some random scary movie (the show we'd planned to watch was not on), I told him how when I was a kid and sleeping over with a friend who was allowed to watch anything she wanted, we watched a scary movie called _Poltergeist_ about "horrible monster ghosts that came out of the closet," and then I was too scared to sleep ALL NIGHT LONG, had bad dreams about the movie for a long time and was afraid of many things just because I had seen them in the movie, and TWENTY-FIVE YEARS LATER am still afraid to sleep in a room where the closet door is open! (EnviroKid was aware of Mama's idiosyncrasy about the closet door but surprised to learn its origin.) I explained that I wished over and over again that I had never seen that movie, because even though I KNEW it was only pretend, it looked so real that having seen it made me unable to forget it. I do not want this to happen to him. Scary movies are something to approach with caution. I watched _Poltergeist_ at my friend's house because I knew my parents would not allow me to see it if I asked; they were right!

Another thing I'm careful about is respecting my child's judgment when HE decides something is inappropriate. We always watch TV/videos together (once in a while, we'll let him watch a video alone, but only if we've seen it before), and if he thinks something is scary or "not nice", we turn it off right away. Even if I want to see it.







I think knowing when to stop is a very important skill.

I grew up in a very homogeneous area where most of my peers watched all the cartoons and network sitcoms. My home and family were kind of "foreign" compared to the dominant culture. I didn't fit in very well and was teased a lot. My mom and I were talking about that recently, about how the teasing hurt me in ways I'm still struggling to overcome, and she asked me if I thought she should have done all the things to make me fit in: turned on those TV shows, bought me the trendy clothes, got me the trendy haircut, made our house look like a motel, served only American foods...and I felt a wave of panic! I said, "No! No! Because then there would have been no escape! Our family was weird, and that was the problem, but that was US, that was ME, and it was such a relief to come home where I wasn't expected to be one of THEM!"







So that's one way it can turn out.

Oh, and I wouldn't describe my upbringing as "sheltered". Yeah, I was protected from slasher flicks, Barbie dolls, junk food, beauty salons...but I knew all about atomic bombs, the civil rights movement, abortion, and what you can see walking around New York City long before most of my classmates.
My parents and other adult relatives talked me through these things and helped me understand and work through my worries and find positive actions to counteract the world's problems.


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## east carolina (Apr 5, 2006)

I was sheltered from alot as a kid. Never watched much TV, never had a video game player, my mother decided what I wore (not typical kids' stuff, never any logos...) up until I was a teen-ager. They did get me a barbie and other "mainstream" marketed kids toys of the time, but my mom made a big deal about how ugly they were, how stupid the whole thing was.

What was missing from my childhood was the free and oped discussion. My mom is a very judgmental person and would ridicule me for my mainstream taste. This is what I don't want to do. I don't want to be a rigid parents, who forces my personal taste and sensibilities on my children. I may shelter, and of course I do--DS is only 3,5--and may explain why I think xyz is not a good idea, but ultimately my DC have a say and I have to respect their tastes and let them make their own "mistakes" as it were. We definitely talk alot, laugh alot and make sure to just plain play alot.

When I talk to my friends who were allowed much more exposure to mainstream society than I was, compared to them I had a much tougher time as a teenager, my parents never really understood me and to this day don't, whereas most of my friends have great relationships with their parents. But other people will have other experiences.


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## Meg_s (Apr 13, 2006)

Sorry I haven't read it all yet, just getting this out there ... and I realize it's only one aspect but it's still an important one imo.

I had a pretty horrible upbringing. My connection to my parents was based on fear and disrespect, they used shame and corporal punishment to control, and I refused to be controlled. I had no attachment to either of them.

In contrast, my best friend in the world, has a COMPLETELY AP mother, breastfed until she was 5, same with her older brother, wonderful loving intact family, gentle discipline, cosleeping the whole thing. THey were and are such an amazing family. Yet, in our late teens and early 20s I - who had always been "fat and ugly" with a horrible body image, I was ridiculed by my family and everyone at school alike and it scarred me deeply - I lost weight and became fairly attractive. My family was very secretive about bodies, I never ever saw anything more than my mom's legs in long shorts. My friend has always been in decent shape, and is stunning.. a real beauty. Her mother always showed her now natural and beautiful the body was, and had no problem being naked or with her daughter being naked. My friend had the most horribly body image and extreme fears, she wanted a relationship but lived with the deepest fear that her clothes would be removed and the guy would be shocked and disappointed and disgusted...and refused to be intimate or have sex because of that. I certainly did not have that... sure I didn't look like the little hotties around but I was attractive in my own right.

We spent a long time dissecting this and wondering what happened here.. and the explanation we came up with is that I was a nerd. I didn't watch TV growing up, and rarely watched it as a teenager. I didn't look at magazines, I was not immersed in popular culture AT ALL. I didn't know exactly how ashamed I was supposed to be for being me, and not Britney Spears or whoever the models were in those magazines. She loooooooved TV. Whenever she could she was glued to it, and although her mom stayed home when they were younger, once they were in high school she did go to work full time and my friend watched as much tv as she could. She had tons of magazines. She was inundated with images of perfect skinny skinny flawless girls and women and it was what she truly believed was needed in order to be accepted. She was popular, and hung out with the cool crowd.. the hottest and most superficial of the highschool and college crowd and she said, it was all about image.

I think there is a lot to limiting exposure to mainstream culture, for both boys and girls. I don't want my little boys growing up thinking that the ideal is what is portrayed on television and magazines, they're setting themselves up for disappointment. It's not real. Humans are real, they have personalities, they interact. These images are not and don't but if you see them enough then they will become a big part of you.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

The older I get the more I want to hide in my house and just believe that how we live is normal and not have anyone ask me about it or think we are odds so I understand your concerns. At the same time I don't think I protect my children from the mainstream very much but they are all aware that the way we live our lives is different to how our relatives and many of their friends do. FTR mine are 15, 11, 5 and 2.

We talk about things that they see, compare and contrast, look for positives and sometimes just put on our downright judgemental hats.


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## JoyfulMom84 (Apr 22, 2008)

We don't have TV in our home...We do have a TV but it isn't hooked up to cable or an antenna...

That said we do use the TV to watch movies...And occasionally if there is a show we're really interested we'll hook the computer up to the TV and watch the stations online broadcast.
We loves cuddling up to good movies and ever since we can remember we've been collecting family friendly movies to enjoy with our kids some day. DD Is only 8mos old so she doesn't really care about the TV except if some thing really bright and flashy is going across the screen with pretty music :0)

My family didn't have TV growing up, ocassionally we would pull out the dusty TV out from under the basement steps and watch a movie as a family....But generally we were expected to find entertainment else where. I am really thankful that my parents did that, and I think it's made me more aware of what DD is exposed to...If DH is watching some thing that wouldn't be appropriate for a young child to watch (to violent or scary) I ask him to turn it off till DD is in bed...

I think there has to be a balance... We have DVD's that are appropriate for kids (with out the commercials!) and I don't mind if my children watch a video or two here and there... I know I can't sheild them from every thing, but I can shield them from some things in my home. I watched TV at friends house, and so I was up to speed on what every one was "talking about" TV-wise...But I wasn't constantly surrounded by it.

I hope that made sense. :0)


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## godusjourney (Apr 11, 2006)

I'm still struggling to find the balance with this as well. I was raised by a single mother (raised as an only child) who was very religious. We never, ever had tv and only borrowed movies from the library - maybe watched one family movie a week (if that). It was always a big deal, too, popcorn, pjs, the whole works. Loved it. I would have to say my childhood was great, and I didn't really ever envy my friends who would spend hours watching tv and playing nintendo. Somehow, even being so young, when I would play/stay overnight at their houses I felt a cold-ness eminating from the things they chose to do with their time. I just wanted to play barbies or games outside. TV never really interested me a whole lot (other than a show here and there).

BUT when teenagehood showed up, my mother was not flexible and encouraging of me finding my own identity - she turned very controlling and angry and it scarred me deeply. Also, both of my half-sisters had very large families and both homeschooled their children. Both big on sheltering their children. Also, because my mother and sisters were into "alternative" family lifestyle choices I was exposed to other families who were very sheltering as well.

From all of that, I've come to realize (for myself) that there is a very precarious balance. On one end, young children should be protected - I don't feel like they are developmentally ready to deal with obtrusive and harsh things like extreme tv/movie watching, endless hours of video games (not to mention some age-innapropriate/violent material on both), commercialism, etc. We don't have a television in our home, but have gone back and forth, so my children have watched plenty of movies, and no, they're not damaged. I just notice they exude addictive, obnoxious behaviors when watching movies as opposed to no movies - so we've changed to watching a VERY occasional movie on the computer together.

On the other end of the balance, when children reach a certain consciousness of the world, I think it's important and valuable to listen to their needs. They are individuals that eventually need to find their own space, identity, "thing." In many of those sheltered (typically homeschooled) families I mentioned above (and many that I've witnessed as an adult), while their younger children were sweet and innocent, their older children were often awkward, extremely naive, and definitely lacking in certain skills (computer, social, world-aware) that would be necessary for them to have as an adult (something that, for them, was just right around the corner).

So, my plan, based on personal and observatory experiences, is to protect and nurture certain family values into my children while they're young. As they get older, I'll reevaluate their needs and watch and listen to their ideas, thoughts, and growing opinions and slowly integrate them into our world and society, while making sure that certain values I hold dear stay intact (compassion, self-discipline/love, global-consciousness, tolerance and respect, love for learning, etc). A form of loosening the apron strings, so to speak, while still keeping an eye on the parent/child dance.

Oh, and certain things that are natural occurances, such as death, I have no problem explaining to and discussing with my children. It's the artificial, "new" flood of our society and its ideals and numbness that I am mostly keeping at bay as much as I can, for now. There will come a time for that later.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JoyfulMom84* 
We don't have TV in our home...We do have a TV but it isn't hooked up to cable or an antenna...

Is this due to a mutual philosophy by you and your husband/spouse/partner (if you are married)?

I would like to tv free or perhaps just have less tv. I'd also like to cancel our cable, both to save the $ (put it towards something else) and also so that the temptation to watch whatever, whenever isn't there.

I personally do not watch much tv, but DH loves tv. I see addiction to television already in our toddler.


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## tree-hugger (Jul 18, 2007)

I ccould have writen your post.I wish you were my neighbor.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

I cherry pick. I expose them to just enough for them to be able to relate to their peers, and I also want them to feel they are able to decide what their tastes are, within appropriate boundaries.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mata* 
I cherry pick. I expose them to just enough for them to be able to relate to their peers, and I also want them to feel they are able to decide what their tastes are, within appropriate boundaries.









:

This is what I do, too.

Also, I don't limit something just because it's mainstream. I only limit it if it conflicts with our values, or our style of parenting, whether it's mainstream or "alternative."


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

I don't shield my kids from things that I find objectionable. Rather, I take any opportunities that come up to talk with my kids about WHY I object to certain things. I think that's positive!

Eventualy, no matter what you shield your kids from as children, they're going to grow up an move around the world independently. I feel good knowing that my kids will be doing that with a solid base of knowledge and educated opinions behind them.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Yes. I think its fine to shield kids from some of life's tougher issues until they are at least 8 years old. Just limit Tv and help them choose good playmates. By the time you let the world in for them, they will have your values and your "view" on life.

My friends often teased me that I kept my kids a little sheltered when they were small .......but I'm having a lot less trouble with my kids than many of my friends have with their kids.

Philomom, mother of a 14y dd and a 12y ds


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Like others, we try to find balance. Dd is 2.5. We don't have TV (we have a tiny one in the closet, no service), but we will almost certainly watch occasional DVDs when she's a little older--I think a family movie night, with age-appropriate movies and popcorn can be great!

We eat mostly organic, shop at the farmer's market, and offer lots of fresh fruits and veggies. But we do also give treats--more than I planned on, actually, because dd has severe, extensive food allergies. There is SO much she can't eat and experience (no pizza, no birthday cake, no food at restaurants or parties; she eats a separate snack at school); that we try to put some of the childhood pleasure back into food--this, for us, takes the form of homemade allergen-free brownies or cookies, or something like that.

We generally don't purchase licensed character books or toys, and our families don't generally but them--but I have no objection to her flipping through a Sesame Street at her cousin's house or having Winnie-the-Pooh toothbrush (try finding a character-free children's toothbrush!). I'm sure she'll watch TV at friend's houses when she gets older, and I'm sure that she'll learn characters from her peers at school.

What is key to me is listening to and watching her, and taking my cues from there. I can make all the plans I want, but all I can really do is see how media/mainstream culture affects her, talk with her about it, and figure out how to strike a balance that fosters her development as an independent person.


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## CanidFL (Jul 30, 2007)

This is a tough one for me. I feel myself being pulled in both directions. I am pretty disgusted with society here but at the same time, this is the world we live in KWIM? Unless the select few of us who disagree go move to an island then I have to teach my child how to be a critical thinker and know inside what is right and what is wrong. I want him to think for himself. He will hear my talks about war, sex, crime, fashion, etc and he will hear my values growing up.

I also just think I am getting older. Each generation has shocking advancements that the older generation does not agree with. Think back to our grandparents with their outrageous hair and dance moves&#8230;.gyrating their hips and listening to devil music. The our parents riding motorcycles, smoking pot, etc. When our parents had us, they were shocked by our rap music and internet use and *gasp* tube tops and short skirts. Now we have children and we are shocked by the texting, video games, sexual images, etc. Society changes and I think we need to adapt with it.

It's important to expose my child to everything and put my values into him so when he is a teenager, he can choose the right path and not be manipulated by his peers. As much as I want to shelter him and not have him watch tv or play video games&#8230;.I just can't. This is the world we live in.

With that being said, I definitely think you need to expose age appropriate material. Of course I am not going to let DS watch slasher movies at 7 years old or play video games with killing, etc. It's all about balance.


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## stickywicket67 (Jan 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CanidFL* 

This is a tough one for me. I feel myself being pulled in both directions. I am pretty disgusted with society here but at the same time, this is the world we live in KWIM? Unless the select few of us who disagree go move to an island then I have to teach my child how to be a critical thinker and know inside what is right and what is wrong. I want him to think for himself. He will hear my talks about war, sex, crime, fashion, etc and he will hear my values growing up.

I also just think I am getting older. Each generation has shocking advancements that the older generation does not agree with. Think back to our grandparents with their outrageous hair and dance moves&#8230;.gyrating their hips and listening to devil music. The our parents riding motorcycles, smoking pot, etc. When our parents had us, they were shocked by our rap music and internet use and *gasp* tube tops and short skirts. Now we have children and we are shocked by the texting, video games, sexual images, etc. Society changes and I think we need to adapt with it.

It's important to expose my child to everything and put my values into him so when he is a teenager, he can choose the right path and not be manipulated by his peers. As much as I want to shelter him and not have him watch tv or play video games&#8230;.I just can't. This is the world we live in.

With that being said, I definitely think you need to expose age appropriate material. Of course I am not going to let DS watch slasher movies at 7 years old or play video games with killing, etc. It's all about balance.


yes. i agree with this sentiment. there is no use in denying/ignoring the evolution of our society, the society we live in- "modern culture".

some things have gotten 'worse' but some things have gotten much much better.

in just 60 years we have seen all whole lot of improvement in our society also- civil rights, women's rights, workers rights, protection against discrimination for people with disabilities, etc..


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## jempd (Feb 27, 2002)

I think this is the big challenge of raising kids today in the U.S. (or any other industrialized first-world nation). I know exactly what you mean about wanting to run off and be Amish! When I think back to the world I grew up in, it just amazes me to think of how much simpler and straightforward things were. My gut instinct is to do what you can and instead of sweating the rest of the stuff, counterbalance it with a lot of contact with nature and doing fun, simple stuff together. We live in a huge city and so are surrounded by things like movie ads, bill boards and ads for rappers and tv shows, and even the buses that go by have ads on them, some of it totally inappropriate for young children to see. We don't watch TV but we are now running up against ds getting interested in popular music, what the other kids are watching and hearing on-line (Youtube doesn't have any filters, I just found out), so we have to be very careful. I think this is a huge subject and am very interested to hear how other people deal with it because at times it feels overwhelming. For example, marketing aimed at children, which it is with increasing stealth and subtlety, really makes me anxious.


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## Amys1st (Mar 18, 2003)

I can understand the OP question because I myself could have and would have written that when my dd1 was about that age. Thankfully we survived to have her now be in 1st grade but yes, it seems like our mainstream media and culture is like walking thru a field of landmines.

Even now, we wont put regular tv on unless its PBS. But even between shows, PBS has sponsors-- Beaches (lets go mommy!) chuckie cheese, Mcdonalds-proud sponsor of sesame street!! Or we rent dvds from the library for the week and then can rent them again someday if they want to see it again. But we do buy a dvd here and there.

I always thinks of what one of my best friends says- pick you battles. Somethings can slip by but others things you need to stand tall on. We eat a lot of fresh fruit as snacks and veggies, I cook from scratch etc. But we do occasionally have a happy meal. My dd didnt discover lunchables until she went to summer camp a few years ago. Another child at her lunch table had one so Mommy why cant we have these....Finally in the early part of the school year, I relented at the grocery store. She wanted one, it was $1. Basically 35 cents for the food, the remainder for the packaging.














let her bring it to lunch the next day. Guess what, that day, she said there wasnt any lunch in it-2 crackers, a nasty piece of salami and ham and she was hungry and didnt want one again. Sometimes kids have to learn for themselves what good is and what bad is. They cannot go on just what we said. Havent had anyone ask for this again.

Just like a lot of kids are attracted to trains cars etc, they may like the Cars movie or Thomas. My 2 girls have several Thomas things. Liz likes the trains all set up and she plays with the trains sort of telling a story to herself where as MAggie likes setting up the trains over and over and still hasnt noticed Thomas has a name etc. I think if you "push" the whole this is Thomas, and do you want a bowl with Thomas on it or create an ownership, yes you will have an issue. But if you just set up the trains and some of the trains have faces, well its just playing trains or as my MAggie says- the "chooo chooos".

I think if you tread lightly, you will have an easier time. You will know what will work for your family and what will not. For instance, I enjoy a good beer with my dh. That dosent mean I need a sixpack, but one beer is fine in the evening. I also enjoy chocolate. We split some chocolates sometimes, but dont eat them every single day.

I think at this young of an age, its easier to keep them away from things and if you make it habit quietly and not make a big deal, it will work well. I think if you go cold turkey and be very matter of fact about it, it will make your kids go look for it and when they get older, they will go crazy for it. It sort of reminds me of college freshman year when the kids who grew up in a very strict environment got there- it was if the floodgates opend. Wow watch out, boy did they have fun! But it could lead to a lot of trouble and very poor decisions.

HTH!


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## tjjazzy (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 

having Winnie-the-Pooh toothbrush (try finding a character-free children's toothbrush!)

haha i got a cute one shaped something like a caterpillar at the dentist!


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

There are many elements of "mainstream" culture I choose to protect our children from, or at least help them have an introduction to certain things in a way that they feel safe and know that they do not have to go along with anything they are not comfortable with.

I remember being shocked and disturbed and even disgusted by many things as a child that everyone else in the world seemed to not even notice.

I think sensitivity to these things is a gift and an instinct. I believe that if we tune into it, we become even clearer about our own feelings. I think that when we feel a negative emotion about something in our culture that doesn't sit right with us, that is our emotional guidance system, telling us this particular thing is not life-affirming for us. It's OK to choose to avoid such things, and offer our kids protection from them.

It definitely makes me, and our children, different from most of our neighbors and people we encounter in our daily life. But I haven't found that to be a problem. I find other areas of common ground to socialize with neighbors around. I limit social contact I am not comfortable with or that seems to be upsetting to our kids. And I have been able to find many people with kids who are on this same wavelength to spend time with. Most of them I met through LLL.


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## JoyfulMom84 (Apr 22, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *That Is Nice* 
Is this due to a mutual philosophy by you and your husband/spouse/partner (if you are married)?

I would like to tv free or perhaps just have less tv. I'd also like to cancel our cable, both to save the $ (put it towards something else) and also so that the temptation to watch whatever, whenever isn't there.

I personally do not watch much tv, but DH loves tv. I see addiction to television already in our toddler.
















I guess it's abit of mutal philosophy... We don't like all that is on the TV for our kid(s future) to be exposed to...And we're kinda cheap :0P ...Hate the thought of spending money on cable, it's expensive! We do pay for netflix and so we keep our quie busy with old movies, and some times get old TV shows on DVD through them and work through series...But we can genearlly choose a 25min segment and watch and enjoy with out commercials and be done with it for the evening. It's a good system that works for us. We really do like HOUSE and one or two other shows so we'll watch those on the networks website when available... We'd rather pay for highspeed internet than cable :0P


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## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

As time goes on, we find ourselves retreating more and more from mainstream culture. We live in a community where that is easy to do--all of our closest friends are also tv-free and are working toward self-sustainability, so our families are not exposed to hardly any advertising at all and very little commercial media of any kind. I feel like I definitely need to protect my daughter from mainstream culture. But at the same time, I don't want it to be a shock to her later. I like the point that someone made early in this thread about exposing children to age-appropriate things. DD is only 2, and we feel she needs to spend her time playing with natural toys and exploring her world as much as possible. There just isn't room for commercial media in days filled with long walks in the woods, helping peel tomatoes, and playing with the cat.


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## MeloMama08 (Feb 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LotusBirthMama* 
Is there a vaccine to protect me fromthe insidious mainstream I keep hearing about??
















Reading. It won't protect you but it does help balance things out!


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## chocolatefish (Sep 21, 2008)

I suspect that parents worrying about the effects of society on their children is nothing new - probably cave woman worried about how that new fangled fire stuff was going to make her kids demand cooked meat all the time after they had it at the neighbours....

I don't think that you can isolate your kids from the culture that they are growing up in. Maybe better to teach them how to be discerning about what aspects of it they want to use, especially as they get older and are more independent. My sister and I grew up on a farm in the sticks, we never had access to any MacDonalds etc and god I felt so deprived at the time! So what did I eat as soon as I was a teenager and old enough to go into town with my friends? Yep junk food - couldn't get enough of it. But I grew up and am now a very healthy eater, and wouldn't venture into a fast food place unless it really was the last food available.

I think that the absolute best way to instill positive values into your children in the long term is to live the kind of life that you want them to. My mom was never a great TV watcher, but she was rarely without a book in her hand as I was growing up. My sister and I are avid readers now and have been all our lives, so much so that she is now doing a post-doc fellowship in American literature - she gets to read for a living now! We all turn into our parents in the end I guess. We have a TV but it's only on maybe once a week, to watch a DVD or something.


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## Boot (Jan 22, 2008)

I'm so thankful that the community I'm part of (Waldorf) doesn't push media on children. All my friends limit TV for their children and try to be mindful when buying gifts, etc. When I look at my neighbour's (English spelling!) for instance, I see how hard it must be to raise a child when they are attacked on all sides by insidious marketing practices. The little grade one girl across the street dresses and acts like a teenager. Her mum is really down to earth and shops in thrift stores but the little girl is very label conscious already. Apparently at 3 she threw a fit because her converse shoes weren't name brand. She already has a 'crush' on a grade 7 boy. The mum realizes that TV has a lot to do with this but it's very hard to limit it when all her friends get to watch. I would certainly want to protect my child from that amount of media influence if I could. Luckily, it will be easier for me but still a struggle I'm sure. DS is only 17 months and so far only owns one Thomas train which we don't refer to by name. Otherwise he is licensed character free. It's only going to get harder to keep it that way.


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## Masel (Apr 14, 2008)

Threads about living tv-free or media free have always made me feel a little bit attacked and for a long time I couldn't figure out why. As a nerd my tv shows have always been very important to me. Among my community of friends the odd Star Trek quote or Buffy reference is something that brings us together. How can I live media free and keep those wonderful stories away from my daughter!

This I guess gets back to what is exactly mainstream. Part of being a nerd is not buying into mainstream entertainment either - Sports? Blech. Prime-time soaps? No way. Random humilation based "reality" show No (not even Beauty and the Geek.) But I was positively buzzing after watching the primere of Heroes last night. (Mohinder I<3u, you big dork.)

As many have said I want my daughter to learn to think critically about what she sees out in the world. We also live in a house full of books so it is not like visual media will be her only input. I try to think in terms of age appropriate rather than yes/no.

So many ideas are like sugar. My DD has a lot of food restrictions because of allergies so when she gets something sweet she wants to eat as much as possible because she never knows when she'll get something special again. Letting her have a regular safe treat seems to aleviate many of these consumption urges. So goes TV, in my humble opinion.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

Yes! Protect her!

I have SO much more to say, but I've got to go for now...I'll be back later tonight!


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## ktmama (Jan 21, 2004)

Protecting children, within reason, I feel, is one of a parent's primary tasks...

For anyone who's interested, I watched a FANTASTIC documentary this past weekend about a family who protected their children from the outside world in the extreme. Surfwise. Check it out. Oh, and a great read on this topic too is Hold Onto Your Kids.


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## tintal (Oct 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kiera09* 
My answer is different.

My final goal is for my DD to be able to succeed in this world. So I would rather guide her and help her navigate the mainstream world than 'protect' her.

At some point she's going to go out on her own - and I want to make sure that she is well equipped to think for herself and not be overwhelmed by what she sees/experienced.

I knew a few sheltered children growing up (including some relatives) and none of them turned out well. They were either stifled by their parents and have never really become their own people. Or they we overwhelmed when they moved out/went to college and weren't able to get anywhere.

Exactly!


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## Girlprof (Jun 11, 2007)

We do a lot of sheltering but in a way that comes naturally to us. We are a TV-free household - that is for the adults as well. This works great though so far DS is only 4.5 years old. We'll see how it goes. When he asks, we tell him most things on TV aren't that good, though some are, and that our antennae doesn't work. All true w/o mentioning that we could easily repair the antennae. We watch movies from netflix or the library so he certainly knows about Lightning McQueen for example. We also recently watched Star Wars and he's crazy for it.

We are also vegetarian but have told him that he should make his own decision in this regard. When visitors bring pizza w/meat into the house he often has some. He also knows that I eat seafood on vacation so he can see that we each navigate food in our own way. He's never been to McD's and we tell him truthfully (I think) that the "food" there is junk. That's what my parents told me and it worked out pretty well for all concerned.

He started KG this fall and I don't know if when the challenges will increase though I am sure that they will. Not sure how we will respond to them. So far we get almost no begging for toys or TV shows that he doesn't have.

I guess my point is that we shelter ourselves from the parts of mainstream culture that we regard as negative so it's not even in the house. He is exposed to zero advertising on most days. At least so far I have no evidence that he will go overboard when he somehow gets more access to TV but again, he's pretty young still so we'll see.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

I think it varies for each family. In our family I don't allow toys like Bratz dolls. My DD has known since she was about 2 years old that we don't allow them in our house. It's just something she has grown up knowing. The earlier you let your kids know what you will allow - the better IMO. My DD is now 6 and anytime we go to a store with a toy dept and pass the Bratz aisle she says something like "oh no, don't want to go that way." She knows there's no point in browsing such an aisle.

As far as t.v. we allow that in our home. I'm still the parent and just because my kids see 20 commercials in a row advertising new and cool toys (til the season - almost!







) doesn't mean they will get them. I'm still the parent.


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