# Isn't this abusive??



## Strockwife (Jul 31, 2007)

Hi! I'm new here. Haven't had a chance to really look at the posts and stuff, so forgive me!

I have to vent. A family member chooses to "discipline" her 4 year-old by putting him in a cold shower, I believe with clothes on, and making him stand in it. She also has very strigent, involved rules for him that even I couldn't remember to follow if had to!!!

Grrr... The irony is that she and another family member recently reported us for "abuse" because we're vegetarian and because I gave my pre-teen a tiny sip of alcohol. (Nothing came of it, by the way. The case manager made it known she was appalled that she had to waste her time on us when there were other places she could be. I understand, I'm actually going to do my field placement as a child protective services worker!!)

Thanks for "listening!!"

-C.


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## *LoveBugMama* (Aug 2, 2003)

Wow.









How incredibly sad.







Yeah, I would say that that`s abusive. But, being a Norwegian living in Norway, I don`t know what is and is not considered abuse in your country.

Regardless, I think that was a terrible thing to do to a child. My heart breaks thinking about that poor little guy.


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

It would probably be considered abuse here in the US, but to get "action" on it, there would have to be a stronger case- more going on.

I feel so sorry for the little guy.


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## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

Man, that is just... MEAN.







Yes, I find it abusive too. I'm sure it's accompanied by yelling and all kinds of bad stuff too.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

It sure is abusive by my standards.







Holy crap.

In my state you might be able to make a case for that based on humiliation/emotional/mental abuse, but it just depends. I am unsure how it would go in your state. As far as I am concerned, it's abusive plain and simple.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Pretty blatant abuse at that.


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## gwynthfair (Mar 17, 2006)

That's so cruel. Can you elaborate on the rules he has to follow? That sounds strange too.


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

I think it's mean and just weird. Wonder what sort of issues the kid will have when he's older regarding water or showers?

I believe the state I live in is pretty clear on what they'll consider abuse... and as this doesn't leave a mark, I don't think they'd consider it abusive. As it's a family member, I might try talking to them... or sharing a book with them. Another option would be to invite them to attend a GD parenting seminar with you.

One thing I've noticed is that some people really don't know what rules a child is developmentally able to follow... and to what regard (with reminders or not). If the child is a boy, I would recommend giving the Mom any of Michael Gurian's books. I have the book "The Good Son" and what I love about it is he'll tell you what is normal behavior based on age... and what rules they can and cannot reasonably follow.


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Oh My Gosh.







:


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## ggs (Aug 6, 2007)

Sounds abusive to me. That is horrible. 4 years old??







:


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## kkeris (Oct 15, 2005)

To a 4 yo child??? Yes, in my books that is abusive, horrible and incredibly unkind behaviour. I cannot imagine anyone doing that in the name of 'discipline'.







:














:


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## Genesis (Jan 8, 2007)

That IS abusive, and disgusting.







:

Poor baby.


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## ChrisR (Jun 21, 2007)

I do consider that to be abusive. How sad.


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## CaraNicole (Feb 28, 2007)

Reminds me of some books I read a few years ago... The series was "A child called it" That poor child, If you have seen this happen with your own eyes (it wasn't clear to me in your post) Please call the authorities.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Yes.

I read somewhere about a religious cult doing that to members when they didn't do what they were told, but I don't recall which one.

awful.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ströckwife* 
Hi! I'm new here. Haven't had a chance to really look at the posts and stuff, so forgive me!

I have to vent. A family member chooses to "discipline" her 4 year-old by putting him in a cold shower, I believe with clothes on, and making him stand in it. She also has very strigent, involved rules for him that even I couldn't remember to follow if had to!!!

-C.









i've got to say....i read A LOT of posts here about what people think is abuse and come here to get insight, but this is hands down one of the most disturbing for me so far. it is SO wrong on so many levels imo. it's not just physical abuse, but it's SO controlling and extremely humiliating and shameful to a child.

WHY WHY WHY WHY would anyone do such a terrible thing to a sweet God given gift????? i mean - it's a child! i can't fathom it. literally. i am so sad for that sweetie.


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## firemommaof1 (Jul 3, 2006)

: I would never do that to my child! Poor thing.


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## Music-mommy (Jan 8, 2005)

I think that is actually worse than spanking, because spanking is over quickly. It's often a an instictive reaction, and a reaction by a parent who doesn't have the tools to know what to do other than spank... Whereas doing this is kind of like pre-meditated abuse...really shows that you are unstable as a parent and this to me would be similar to physical torture, locking a kid in a room, tieing him up to his bed etc... I mean to put a kid in a shower and turn it on cold, you'd have to stand there and hold him in place correct?







:

That is beyond "discipline" it is actually sick.

Unfortunately I doubt that it would ever stand up as abuse in any court of law.

In fact I have a friend whose children have been sexually abused by their dad, repeatedly..., and my friend was not able to keep him from having visitation or to bring him up on criminal charges, because there was no hard "proof" that he had abused them.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Music-mommy* 
I think that is actually worse than spanking, because spanking is over quickly. It's often a an instictive reaction, and a reaction by a parent who doesn't have the tools to know what to do other than spank... Whereas doing this is kind of like pre-meditated abuse...really shows that you are unstable as a parent and this to me would be similar to physical torture, locking a kid in a room, tieing him up to his bed etc... I mean to put a kid in a shower and turn it on cold, you'd have to stand there and hold him in place correct?







:



yes - that's how i feel about it too. it's so incredibly disturbing to me.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Music-mommy* 
I mean to put a kid in a shower and turn it on cold, you'd have to stand there and hold him in place correct?







:


Probably only the first few times, until his little spirit is crushed







. That scenario is heartbreaking.

I think definition of child abuse should be, "If I did this to another adult, would they hit me across the head while calling me a 'freaking maniac'?" If the answer is yes, then it's abuse.


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AntoninBeGonin* 
I think definition of child abuse should be, "If I did this to another adult, would they hit me across the head while calling me a 'freaking maniac'?" If the answer is yes, then it's abuse.

I love your definition.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AntoninBeGonin* 
I think definition of child abuse should be, "If I did this to another adult, would they hit me across the head while calling me a 'freaking maniac'?" If the answer is yes, then it's abuse.

Sounds good to me.


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## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

Definitely abuse to me! I have a 4 year old and it breaks my hear to think of a child going through this.

What has to be going through someone's mind when they think up this type of "punishment"? People like to blame bullying and peer pressure for children having so many problems, but how about starting at the home. I can't imagine what a child feels like to know that they have no one to protect them. It makes me just want to cry.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I don't know what CPS would say, but there was a local case where I live last winter, where a mother was arrested and her child put in foster care because she punished him by making him stand outside in the cold, often naked or in his underwear, for set amounts of time.


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## FancyPants (Dec 25, 2004)

Mean.

What strikes me about your story is that she called CPS on you for such flimsy reasons. I have to wonder if it was a pre-emptive strike.

Perhaps she figures you are going to call CPS on her so she is hoping to make it look like retaliation for a feud between the two of you instead of her being abusive.


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## MamaPam (Oct 8, 2005)

I cannot fathom why any adult would think such a thing to ever be acceptable.


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

Am I the only one who wonders if this is how this Mom was "disciplined" as a child... or wonders if she could be in some sort of abusive relationship with her DH? I just find this so out-of-the-norm.... so unfathomable... that those things come to mind. I mean, we've all heard of parents who spank, but I have to say that this is the absolute first time I've heard of this form of discipline. Reminds me of a hazing-technique.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Yikes, IMO it's an abusive type of discipline but maybe this woman knows no better. I could never do that to my child. A shower is something they need to learn to do eventually in order to keep themselves clean. I would be afraid I would scar them for life and make them fear showers or have a complex when they are adults.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

i just had a playdate and was telling my friend about what i read here regarding the cold shower. she told me her pastor's wife did the same thing to her kids when they would have an accident in their pants!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i was like WHAT?







: that's so INSANE to me!!!! i can't believe this is practiced among more than one person! what is wrong with people! seriously. i'm so incredibly bothered by it.


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## Kira's mom (Nov 30, 2004)

That is inhumane. I can't imagine where anyone would even think that up. To do to a child or any being at all.


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## Music-mommy (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *umsami* 
Am I the only one who wonders if this is how this Mom was "disciplined" as a child... or wonders if she could be in some sort of abusive relationship with her DH? I just find this so out-of-the-norm.... so unfathomable... that those things come to mind. I mean, we've all heard of parents who spank, but I have to say that this is the absolute first time I've heard of this form of discipline. Reminds me of a hazing-technique.









I don't know that it's that far out of the norm, and yes most people who abuse their children have been abused but does that mean it's ok?

When I was in college one of the profs was telling me how her child was acting out and she put a padlock on his bedroom door to keep him in his room... he was 2! I think if we had cameras in the houses of people we would be amazed to see what people do in the "privacy" of their own homes.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

When I was growing up, my Mother had a friend who made her two children (then about 4 and 6 years old) kneel on hard uncooked rice for hours on end for punishment. A former neighbor of mine picker her two year old up by her ponytail whenever she wasn't paying attention. Also, my son's biological Father thought spanking was the way to go for not being potty trained by two years old. Unfortunately, I think abuse and questionable punishments are much more common than we'd like to believe.


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## happy1nluv (Apr 1, 2005)

that just makes me sooo sad. and yes, i agree its abuse.


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## DBassett (May 15, 2007)

That poor baby. Yes it's abuse. I can't imagine who in their right mind could do that to a child!


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## chicagomom (Dec 24, 2002)

I think that's horrifying. OTOH, we live in a country that has for several years now been debating whether water-boarding is torture.


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