# DH refuses to discuss circumcision



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Anyone have suggestions for creative, diplomatic ways to convince him not to circumcise? He flat out refuses to discuss it, simply says that if the baby's a boy he'll be circumcised. I told him that he wouldn't accept that from me so it wasn't very fair for me to have to accept it from him, but he didn't care. Then I said that I just wouldn't allow it, and he said if I felt like that then don't plan to have any more kids







: He wouldn't discuss it when I was pregnant with DD, either (no DH bashing, please).

I was thinking I might write him a letter and lay out my reasons for not wanting to circumcise. I know I won't be able to get him to read any websites or books or anything like that...they all tend to talk about genital mutilation anyway, which would turn him right off the subject. Help!


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## Claire and Boys (Mar 27, 2007)

How about you turn it around, and ask him to convince YOU that it's the right thing to be done? If he can't convince you then you won't consent to it.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

I guess I'd just matter of factly state that all body parts born with the baby stay ON the baby, unless there is medical reason to otherwise remove them. So, if he wants part of the baby's body removed, he needs to get you factual information on why it needs to be done.

Then once he provided you information, you can come here to talk about it and people can give you facts to go back to him with on why he is wrong.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

He refuses to discuss it at all. I need a better solution than simply not consenting because that's obviously going to cause a lot of strife between us. He's never been like this on any other issue so I'm not sure why he's like this with circumcision.


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## Papai (Apr 9, 2007)

He's defensive because he doesn't want to face the fact he might have been wronged.

Press him on why the topic is not up for discussion. Why is this so important to him? Tell him that you don't understand why he's being so irrational about this subject.


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## Papai (Apr 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
He refuses to discuss it at all. I need a better solution than simply not consenting because that's obviously going to cause a lot of strife between us. He's never been like this on any other issue so I'm not sure why he's like this with circumcision.

You can't allow him that advantage.

"I'm not going to talk about it" is not acceptable. Period. And let him know that.

It's a way to bully you and manipulate you and it's childish. Tell him so.


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## quarteralien (Oct 4, 2006)

I see you're planning on a homebirth. I think that will make it easier, because it would have to be a totally separate appointment. It's not just a routine office thing. I like your idea of writing a letter. Tell him you love him, and the baby, and you are trying your best to do what you believe is right for everyone involved. Has someone pointed you to the essay on circed men's feelings, for you to read, but not for him? I don't know just where it is offhand, but maybe I can find it. Don't despair. I know of another mama who's DH wouldn't discuss it, especially since they already had a circed boy, and she finally said "Fine. You want it done, you take care of it." He never did, so it obviously wasn't that important to him. Good luck.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Papai* 
You can't allow him that advantage.

"I'm not going to talk about it" is not acceptable. Period. And let him know that.

It's a way to bully you and manipulate you and it's childish. Tell him so.

I agree. And how are his wants more important than yours? or the baby's? I doubt there's a baby out there who wants part of his penis removed.

And I didn't say not to consent, I said to tell him that what baby is born with, baby keeps, unless proved otherwise. If he won't listen to what you have to say at all, then I really have no idea where you are going to go with this. If he refused to hear you out, even for one measly sentence, then the only think you can do is refuse the circumcision at the hospital (if you'll be at a hospital and if they offer circ), and never allow your baby boy alone with your DH. It's not reasonable, but if he won't listen, how are you supposed to convince him against it?


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## MommytoB (Jan 18, 2006)

Anyways I would just say you didn't want to talk about it so I chose no circumcision and make sure you end up telling that to the doctor you deliver with ,future pediatrician, and the hospital that you do not want your son circ also make sure that they know that you never want your son circ even if your dh tries to do one behind your back because a few mom's almost had their kids circ but one doc made a follow up appt call for their son circ that the dh made and was going to offer a break from their son for the mom that call saved that boy from the trickery husband/dad,another mom got an application that their MIL and DH filled in to see a different pedi so that boy would get circ but thank goodness they sent it to her husband address than the MIL so another boy was saved.

So keep boy with you all the time call all pediatricians saying No circumcision and family doctors and if he asks you about it you go it's out of disccussion so I made my a choice the fact because I read the facts


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## quarteralien (Oct 4, 2006)

I found it!
http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vuln...ty_of_men.html
And you are planning a homebirth aren't you? I did see that correctly right? Read signatures people! No hospitals or doctors to deal with!


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *quarteralien* 
Read signatures people! No hospitals or doctors to deal with!

Well I did say "if" in my post to her. Sometimes we have little ones hammering on the keyboards while we are reading/typing so don't always have the time or energy to read and figure out all the little icons in someone's signature.







I also took a look at her sig now and I wouldn't know if that meant she was planning a homebirth, agreed with homebirth, had a homebirth in the past, etc.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I really need ideas for ways OTHER THAN DISCUSSION to try to convince him--he's made it very clear that he is not going to discuss it and pushing the issue in any way is only going to make him dig in his heels more. Yes I could just refuse to consent but I would like to at least try to change his mind. If I told him if he wanted it done he could take care of it, he would, so that wouldn't work.

We are planning a homebirth.


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## TovahNeryse (Jun 17, 2007)

Let him know that if refuses to be mature and discuss the issue like adults then you will simply let any and ALL medical personnel know that circumcision without *your* consent will result in a lawsuit.

I told my DH to convince me to circumcise and he couldn't come up with a single legit reason to circ...... So I agree with that suggestion.

You can write him a letter, but then you still have the chance of him not reading it. I would tell him... You might consider marriage counseling (even just one session) or counseling through your clergy person and make that a priority for discussion. He may respond better because who wants to look like a donkey in front of another person?
I sure hope you stuck to your guns!

Good luck!


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I wouldn't have anymore kids with him until he agreed to intactness for all our kids. Period. And yes I've been where you are, I've had the crying yelling arguments. I lost all desire to have more children ( I had my dd prior to meeting him). He eventually did come around and is actually an intactivist now. But it happened in his time, he came around after seeing a documentary on wolves that discussed mating apparently and they talked about how they would be sterile if not for their anatomy. I don't know I didn't see it, that is what he paraphrased to me. I was just grateful he got it.


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## Papai (Apr 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I really need ideas for ways OTHER THAN DISCUSSION to try to convince him--he's made it very clear that he is not going to discuss it and pushing the issue in any way is only going to make him dig in his heels more. Yes I could just refuse to consent but I would like to at least try to change his mind. If I told him if he wanted it done he could take care of it, he would, so that wouldn't work.

We are planning a homebirth.

That's the thing, you're accepting that he won't discuss it.

That is not acceptable.

How can you engage somebody on an issue if they won't discuss it? That's totally fruitless. He won't read articles, won't watch videos and he won't discuss it with you. What else can you do?







:


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## myfairbabies (Jun 4, 2006)

Can you make him watch a video? My dh refused to talk about it until I got him to watch one, and it really freaked him out. Then he agreed not to, but the boy could decide at 12. Now he's an intactivist. It was slow though


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## wdube (Jul 19, 2005)

I'd try the Howard Stern angle. He's about as macho as they come and SO opposed to circumcision. Maybe you can leave a print out of his comments on the subject. Here's one site: http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/stern.htm.

If you do a Google search, I'm sure it will turn up more.

Best of luck!


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

I don't know that there ARE any other avenues besides discussion and you simply never ever consenting.

How about you just tell him its irrelevant whether he'll discuss it or not, because it will not happen, that you must consent, and you will never ever EVER do that. So if he wants it to happen, he's going to have to convince you to change your mind. That would open up the dialogue.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I havent read any responses but just wanted to let you know that I talked my dh into it by simply saying "Hey, seems to me that since we disagree on this, we should not do something that cannot be undone, and we should default on the side of not doing it, rather than doing it." Someone here gave me that wonderful perspective and it helped so much that I wasnt all militant with dh like I usually am. (Infants have rights too, is not an argument my dh really gives a damn about, kwim)

So he agreed!

Someone please, word that in a more man friendly way.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

hey, how about "Its not up to us to mess with someone elses penis!"


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
I talked my dh into it by simply saying

*"Hey, seems to me that since we disagree on this, we should not do something that cannot be undone, and we should default on the side of not doing it, rather than doing it."*

That's very reasonable!

OP - have you read the Vulnerability of Man article that was linked to earlier? That will let you know where your dh is coming from.

He was violated as an infant in a very personal way. And to leave a child intact, he has to acknowledge that to himself and come to terms with it in some way - and that is very difficult for any guy to do, especially because it involves acknowledging that there is something important missing from his penis.

Not sure how your dh feels about off colour humour/language, etc, but if he wouldn't be offended, the Penn & Teller episode on circumcision is excellent - makes all the relevant points without putting guys on the defensive. I believe it's in their Season 3 'Bullsh*t' series (although check that).

Might make a nice Christmas present, if he likes Penn and Teller...


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## cravenab00 (May 25, 2005)

could you correspond by email? Send him an email with a link that says "click this" or something, so he doesnt know what it is? Maybe link it to a video?

or send him a letter, by acutal mail. Send it certified, so he knows the importance of it.

or possibly, videotape yourself speaking, make all the points as to why you wont consent to circumcision, and how much it hurts that he doesnt want to help protect a future son. Make sure he watches it without you around.

Do you have any friends with intact sons, who could bring up the topic, not TO him, but just a non-chalant conversation, that he could hear?

leave circ info laying around. he might just pick it up one of these times.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I might be able to get him to watch a video. Any links? I need one that's fairly short and preferably has little to no talking on it...definitely no mention of genital mutilation or anything like that in either the video or the title or web link.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Are you pregnant now? If you are not, then I wouldn't waste the time or worry on him.

If you are pregnant and find it's a boy, then don't sign the consent, period. And keep the baby with you. Then he may want to discuss it with you.









This is the framework I will work from if I ever get pregnant again. Take the baby home intact. Discuss later, let the DH bring it up and explain why he wants it and calmly but firmly decline circ. Rinse and repeat as needed.

Good luck, espeically if you are TTC right now!


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I just thought of another one: If you circ, your ds's foreskin might just end up in beauty creme on Oprahs face. Thats enough to annoy any man.


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

I've searched for Penn and Teller's circumcision episode, but none of the links I've found are still working - I suspect they get yanked as soon as people put them up, for copyright reasons.

I'm pretty sure you could buy it on Amazon, though...it is pretty convincing.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

try google video.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Does the graphic circ video not work any more? That is linked to here http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=481025 ?

He wont even say why he wont discuss it? Not a single reason??







:

I would keep at him until he at leaast told me that much. Without knowing there is no way you can counter him.

And in all honesty until this was resolved I would not ttc. After reading a post from a mom here who's dh almost got away with taking the baby after it was born to have it circed without mom's permission I wouldnt take the risk.


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## Fi. (May 3, 2005)

Intact is the default. He needs to convince you. And if he's not mature and educated enough to talk about it, he certainly isn't mature or educated enough to be doing it.


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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommiska* 
I've searched for Penn and Teller's circumcision episode, but none of the links I've found are still working - I suspect they get yanked as soon as people put them up, for copyright reasons.

I'm pretty sure you could buy it on Amazon, though...it is pretty convincing.

My old links aren't working either. That's definitely the video I'd recommend too.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I was just re reading the OP and I think if you want "creative and diplomatic" conversations, you should stay away from the "mutilating, deformed, poor sexual function" stuff thats going to cut your dh below the belt. KWIM?

Plus the martyr thing doesnt tend to work well on dh's who are pro circ.


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## myfairbabies (Jun 4, 2006)

In my siggy is a link to a video


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I will try to get him to watch that video. They do actually have anesthetics that work reasonably well for circumcision, though, right? Before DD was born I looked into it and found a ped who used anesthetic to circumcise, and DH knows that, so I'm not sure that he won't just decide it wouldn't be like that because anesthetic would be used. I know it wouldn't be as graphic/convincing, but...does anyone have a link to a video where anesthetic IS used? At least he could see what it's actually like, and if the baby gets upset in spite of the anesthetic, that would help my case.

I am already pregnant. And no, the mutilation stuff will not work with DH. Neither will stuff about it being the child's choice--frankly that wouldn't fly with me either as every parent makes all sorts of decisions that can affect their child for the rest of their life, from vaccinations to schooling to dietary choices.

And he flat out refuses to discuss it. I have no idea why, I do feel that I could convince him if he would discuss it, but he won't.


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## carriebft (Mar 10, 2007)

Quote:

Neither will stuff about it being the child's choice
I hope you do see that circumcision- skinning a boy's penis (and it's like action for a female- splitting or removing the clitoral hood) are very different things than schooling, diets and vaccines (depending on who you ask for that one).

Do you really think that's a parents choice? You claim that argument wouldn't 'fly' with you. Maybe you need to think about this a little more too. And maybe that thinking time and thought about the BODY of your future son might help you find within yourself a way to talk to your husband and a way to be stronger yourself.

Think about how you would feel if someone argued to you that it was their choice as a parent to split or remove their daughter's clitoral hood or pieces of her labia. Maybe really seeing the issue of the child's autonomy and right to genital integrity can open your mind to new ways to speak to your husband.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
And he flat out refuses to discuss it. I have no idea why, I do feel that I could convince him if he would discuss it, but he won't.

If he's going to be that stubborn on this issue, well, I would give an ultimatum, "either you talk about this, or we're over." I would never stay with someone who didn't even respect my opinion enough to really listen to it, and I would never stay with someone who insisted on mutilation.

What about a porn with an intact man in it?

(I'm totally anti-porn usually, but you might not be.)


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## carriebft (Mar 10, 2007)

Other ideas that come to my mind-

-get a doctor who is on your side and bring the issue up with the doctor while husband is there

-I like the idea of a personal letter-- hand write him a letter and pour your heart into it. Leave it on his pillow or the like.

-compromise-- give him power to pick the child's name in return for leaving his penis alone


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

I said 'it can always be done later, but can't be undone'. Also, we didn't talk about it at all before hand. I told him on the way home from the hospital that I told them no.


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## graceomalley (Dec 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TovahNeryse* 
Let him know that if refuses to be mature and discuss the issue like adults then you will simply let any and ALL medical personnel know that circumcision without *your* consent will result in a lawsuit.

I told my DH to convince me to circumcise and he couldn't come up with a single legit reason to circ...... So I agree with that suggestion.

You can write him a letter, but then you still have the chance of him not reading it. I would tell him... You might consider marriage counseling (even just one session) or counseling through your clergy person and make that a priority for discussion. He may respond better because who wants to look like a donkey in front of another person?
I sure hope you stuck to your guns!

Good luck!

ditto


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## gridley13 (Sep 3, 2004)

My suggestions...

Be absolute sure that you tell anyone involved in the birth that you do NOT want him circ'd. Honestly, if this were me, I would be telling people "I am forewarning you that I will sue if my child's penis is cut." I know a homebirth is planned, but just in case.. and be sure the midwife is very clear on this issue (if there is a midwife).

Obtain the Penn and Teller video (if you think he will be ok with their humor) and leave it around. Don't bring it up, just leave it around.

Leave other reading material around. Again, don't bring it up... just leave it very visible.

Do you have friends who have not circ'd that you and dh are social with? I would plan something where you ask a mama friend in advance to bring up the issue with you, within dh's earshot. If you can put him in situations where he winds up hearing other parents talk about intact, it might help him.

Some of those might be sorta sneaky ideas but ask me if I care?









Whatever you do, don't back down. Better to fight this hard then to spend years regretting it. I assume you already know that.. just want to mention it.

Good luck!


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## gridley13 (Sep 3, 2004)

OH!!!! And leave websites up on the computer "accidentally."


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *quarteralien* 
Read signatures people! No hospitals or doctors to deal with!

Just an FYI, but some people don't see signatures. You can turn them off. I blocked them because I find them cluterry and distracting.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whateverdidiwants* 
Just an FYI, but some people don't see signatures. You can turn them off. I blocked them because I find them cluterry and distracting.

I'm sorry my siggy distracts you.


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## dnr3301 (Jul 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
He refuses to discuss it at all. I need a better solution than simply not consenting because that's obviously going to cause a lot of strife between us.

I think it's would be good to turn this idea around... HE is causing strife here, not you. He is the one who wants to cut of part of your child's body. He wants to hurt your baby. He is the one causing the problem, not you.

Find a graphic still image of a baby mid scream (I know they are out there, I just threw up a little when I saw them, so I won't go looking now, maybe someone with a stronger stomach can do it for you) and make it you wallpaper on your computer. Then a few days later, get a different still with a baby with a fresh circ, still blood on the paper, still strapped down and make THAT your wallpaper. Go through the whole operation that way. Then make a big word document saying "THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT DONE TO OUR CHILD...WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?"

If you can get a copy of "Birth As We Know It", you could watch it together, with you being blissfully ignorant of the fact that hidden in all that beautiful language and imagry about natural birth are some very raw and powerful words about having our sons' first sexual experience being terrifying and painful, and that it's a lot to ask of a baby to trust us after that. But the bulk of the movie is NOT about circ, it's gorgeous video of birth, it's insightful narration. It's really about birth, with a five minute blip (powerful blip, with disturbing visuals) about circumcision. You don't have to know about it going into the movie. No discussion, but an in-his-face approach.


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## myfairbabies (Jun 4, 2006)

The circ video in my siggy had the doctor saying that they DID use anesthetic, but he's actually lying. The father says something like "i was aware that you would use anesthetic" the doctor says "what's that?" (yeah right, like he didn't hear him) and the father repeats himself, and the doc says something like "Oh yeah, we put it in the mixture (which is really the antiseptic) to take the edge off."

Also, does he read in the bathroom? Maybe remove all his reading material and leave some choice articles in their place







: (or anywhere else he's stuck and likes to read something)


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## pfeiff19 (Jul 17, 2004)

:


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## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

I have just a second... and just skimmed...

How about this... get someone ELSE to tell him. Get it to come from a midwife or doctor or nurse or doula and he might listen to them.

Jessica


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

The Penn & Teller show seemed to speak to my dh.

I'd suggest watching that...
and then see if he has anything to say. If he expresses concerns then you can start addressing them. If he doesn't open up and discuss it then this is something that they won't do without your consent.

I'd start out being pretty gentle and try to change his mind anyway I could...but in the end I would tell him that this is not something you will compromise on or ever consent to.


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

I think the homebirth part is irrelevant. It's super-duper easy to make an appt. to take the baby in to be circed later. Mom doesn't even need to be there, or give permission.

If you have any suspicion that your dh might go behind your back to have your son circed -- and we have seen it attempted -- then you need to put your foot down NOW about the consequences, i.e. your marriage will be over, end of discussion, if he circs your son.


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

There's another thread here with a link to a documentary called 'Someone's gotta do it' - it follows a mohel and looks at his job of circumcising babies.

One of the comments he makes is that most babies being circumcised have an erection at the time - which makes sense, as the penis is being manipulated, etc.

The thought of a newborn baby's first sexual experience being one of intense pain sometimes gets through to people.

Also, here is a very good article - it's from Men's Health magazine, so it's not a 'crunchy' source:

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

I know your dh doesn't want to read/discuss, but I thought I'd throw this out there anyway. It does have the stills someone else mentioned of a baby in mid-scream while he's being cut.







:


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

He is the one that is causing the strife between the two of you.You are not doing anything to damage your marriage, protecting your child shouldn't be casue for strife. I would be livid and resentful if my dh just refused to discuss something so important to our child.

I would tell him we don't have to discuss it but I'm going to talk about it anyway. This isn't about your dh but your baby.

Then I would do whatever it takes to keep your baby safe, legally.


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## amydep (Apr 18, 2006)

I haven't read all of the suggestions, but the ones that I have read have been great so far. If someone already mentioned this, I apologize...but, how about leaving some pictures out for him. If he refuses to talk to you about it, a picture says a thousand words. You can have still shots of the circumcision itself. Then how about a few still shots of some botched circ's? One of the ladies on here has a link in her siggie of botched circ's. It literally brought me to tears.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Papai* 
You can't allow him that advantage.

"I'm not going to talk about it" is not acceptable. Period. And let him know that.

It's a way to bully you and manipulate you and it's childish. Tell him so.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quirky* 
I think the homebirth part is irrelevant. It's super-duper easy to make an appt. to take the baby in to be circed later. Mom doesn't even need to be there, or give permission.

If you have any suspicion that your dh might go behind your back to have your son circed -- and we have seen it attempted -- then you need to put your foot down NOW about the consequences, i.e. your marriage will be over, end of discussion, if he circs your son.









:


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## AstridS (Mar 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quirky* 
you need to put your foot down NOW about the consequences, i.e. your marriage will be over, end of discussion, if he circs your son.









:

You really don't need to discuss it. It's totally fair to make this an ultimatum. If he's willing to harm a newborn for the sake of his own ego, what else is he capable of doing to your children? I would _never_ stay married to someone who hurt my children!


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## mamasophy (Mar 15, 2007)

OP, circ is a very different decision that some make for their children than vax/no vax, etc. Circ is not a parenting decision. It is a decision about whether our newborn son is a _person or a possession_. It is not done (from a man's POV anyway) to make the child's life better in most cases (I know there are some who beleve bogus health claims, even the locker room reason, but for a circ'd dad these aren't the main reason for it). Parents who choose to vax or not are doing their best to make *their child's life* better. A circ'd dad wants his son cut because he is cut, period. It is for the DAD. And I have compassion for the pain and confusion a circ'd dad feels when faced with this! It sucks to realize that you may have had a wrong done to you, that your penis may be missing an important piece - does this mean that I (the dad, the man) am lacking? Am I not all powerful, masculine, virile (etc, etc.)?? A man's identity in this culture especially is tied to his sexuality, his prowess, his PENIS. It is his power, it is his manhood. A guy has to be fairly conscious to overcome this conditioning, especially when his guy friends (family, etc) in most cases repeatedly strengthen it! A man may _feel_ emotion about circ, feel that it is a bad thing, but he has been conditioned to suppress this emotion, so he pooh poohs it in his DP and either falls back on "medical" reasons or if that doesn't fly, the "I'm the man and I make the rules! No discussion!" tactic. A man can't discuss circ without having the feelings smack him in the face. Then he'd have to DEAL with the feelings. It's too hard for many. Our culture shames men out of expressing and dealing with those feelings. So I really have compassion for your DH! Mine had to go through this, but we had lots of time - I learned the truth about circ before I ever married or had kids - I brought the issue to the table when we got engaged. It took years for my DH to deal with the true issue, which was his _feelings_ about being circ'd/being a man/feeling vulnerable. But he woke up, thankfully. But the issue comes down to this - is your son a person or your DH's possession to mold as he pleases? A person has a right to choose. Their body is their own. A possession does not.
Sending lots of love your way!


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## phdmama06 (Aug 15, 2007)

OP, I hope I don't sound harsh saying this, and I apologize if I do...

So you say that you are concerned about causing strife in your marriage by discussing circumcision. However, just if (in theory) you got it done to please your H, wouldn't that cause just as much, if not more strife in your family - strife to your little one most of all and perhaps strife between you and your H because you know that you wouldn't have wanted the circ done?

You HAVE to deal with this in some way, hard as it may be, because if you don't, it will create problems at some point in time. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but sometime. Please seriously consider some of the tactics the other posters have suggested, and please, whatever you do, stand up for your unborn baby.


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

I won't bash your DH, but I disagree with his refusal to discuss it, and threatening you with no more kids if you don't bend to his will on this. Is there something about being intact that really frightens him? Like a religious issue? Let him know that in a marriage, refusing to discuss something is never an option- nothing is secret or taboo. Let him know that you won't be snide or vindictive about his opinion- you will hear him out in full if he hears you out in full. Let him know you WANT to know what he's feeling. I hope he turns around.


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

If he refuses to discuss it simply make an appointment with a counselor. Explain to DH that because he refuses to discuss it and you refuse to have your son circumcised then your marriage has a problem. Give him the date, time and address of the counselor and tell him to meet you there. Tell him if he doesn't show up then you'll assume that he now agrees with you.

Do not let him be an ass about this (I'm not bashing him, if my dh did the same thing that is what I'd say about him). If you have a boy this time he needs you to stand up for him now.

This is not a parental decision that can be compared to vaxing and eating habits. I know a previous poster said it much better and I concur.

You can be as stubborn as he is being and let him know it. Time to fix this now than wait until after the baby is born. Tell him you will refuse to have any other children until this is cleared up (especially if this baby is a girl do not get pregnant again until you both have talked this out).

Good luck.


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## Josette Marie (May 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Anyone have suggestions for creative, diplomatic ways to convince him not to circumcise? He flat out refuses to discuss it, simply says that if the baby's a boy he'll be circumcised. I told him that he wouldn't accept that from me so it wasn't very fair for me to have to accept it from him, but he didn't care. Then I said that I just wouldn't allow it, and he said if I felt like that then don't plan to have any more kids







: He wouldn't discuss it when I was pregnant with DD, either (no DH bashing, please).

I was thinking I might write him a letter and lay out my reasons for not wanting to circumcise. I know I won't be able to get him to read any websites or books or anything like that...they all tend to talk about genital mutilation anyway, which would turn him right off the subject. Help!


I printed up aritcles about the circumcion and how it wasn't necessary. Then I told my husband if he could watch the video of a baby being cirmcumcised then he would go with our son to have it done.

He read the articles and agreed that it wasn't necessary.

The videos that another reader posted almost made me sick to my stomache. I am sure you can find them again on this site.


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## Lissacamille (Oct 25, 2007)

My DH also refused to discuss circumcision. He is circumcised and intended for his sons to "look" like him. When our first son was born, I reluctantly agreed to the procedure since he was so set on it. When the nurse came for the baby, I became panicky and immediately grabbed Zachary back, saying I'd changed my mind. DH wasn't there to make me go through with it. When he realized that I'd deliberately changed my mind, he was a little annoyed. But I told him that there was no way I was going to mutilate my newborn just so he could look like his daddy.
I am glad I stuck to my guns. And now my husband is the biggest anti-circ fanatic there is!


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## phdmama06 (Aug 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lissacamille* 
My DH also refused to discuss circumcision. He is circumcised and intended for his sons to "look" like him. When our first son was born, I reluctantly agreed to the procedure since he was so set on it. When the nurse came for the baby, I became panicky and immediately grabbed Zachary back, saying I'd changed my mind. DH wasn't there to make me go through with it. When he realized that I'd deliberately changed my mind, he was a little annoyed. But I told him that there was no way I was going to mutilate my newborn just so he could look like his daddy.
I am glad I stuck to my guns. And now my husband is the biggest anti-circ fanatic there is!

Wow, that is an awesome story. Good for you for sticking up for your little Zachary, and how wonderful that your DH's opinion turned around after that!!


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## attachedmamaof3 (Dec 2, 2006)

You're the mom. You make the call. It's not your job to convince or educate your DP. I understand your need to. I get that you want him to agree with you. There are some things that are non-negotiable. This is one of them. No ifs/ands or buts about it. Not gonna happen. No more kids? You're right buddy! I'd turn that right back around...if he thinks you're just gonna pop 'em out and cut 'em up!

After the hurdle with DS#1, it was a non-issue for DS#2...plus, it's kinda a PITA trying to find a dr to circ when the kids are homebirthed!! HHHHAHHA GOTCHA DP!!!


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

I would be extremely leary of having him present at the birth, or even being in the same house with him in the time leading up to labor, if this does not get resolved satisfactorily. Having something like this hanging over your head could seriously impact your ability to give birth safely. It's happened before.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
I would be extremely leary of having him present at the birth, or even being in the same house with him in the time leading up to labor, if this does not get resolved satisfactorily. Having something like this hanging over your head could seriously impact your ability to give birth safely. It's happened before.

Yup, learn from my mistake. I was like you, a little less knowledgeable, no wait, I knew NOTHING except that my instincts were pulling me away from it. I'd fight with my dh too. I really thought I'd leave the hospital with an intact boy... The fights were horrible. One time, while 8mo pregnant, he choked me and threw me down violently to the ground. I should have left him then but I had NO BACK BONE AT ALL in this body at that time. Plus, its what I was use to seeing my mother go through. Horrible fights! Bad birth and baby got circ'd.







: We still fight over it. I've told him repeatedly how much I hated him for allowing it to happen. He hasn't been violent with me like that in a very long time. In fact he feels so much remorse over what happened to our first ds, probably because I never let him forget it, that he is a very effective intactivist!

ITs HORRIBLE, the guilt, please please don't let this happen to you! ITS A VIOLENT WOUND on the body of a boy and the HEART OF A MOTHER!!! If you let this happen, especially knowing what you know now, you WILL have a wounded heart till the day you die! I promise you that! Its not a threat, its a WARNING!!! DON'T GO THROUGH WHAT I'M GOING THROUGH!!! PLEASE!!!

Show him this.
http://www.icgi.org/medicalization/
Its a time line of how it all began in America. After this, he should understand the atrocity it really is!

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommiska*
Also, here is a very good article - it's from Men's Health magazine, so it's not a 'crunchy' source:

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

I think this is the one you meant to post, and I agree, it's great:

http://www.noharmm.org/separated.htm

Also, I know it's worked for some moms, but I personally know people for whom the "you want him circed, you take him" ultimatum has backfired. Daddy took baby, baby got circed. Didn't hurt daddy one bit.







:

I really, REALLY don't recommend that that be the line in the sand, because it is very easy for daddy to step over if he has his (irrational) mind made up to circ. Often times men's psychological motivations to circ are more powerful than their desire to protect their children, especially right after birth when they may not have bonded with them fully and may not see them as real people.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lissacamille* 
My DH also refused to discuss circumcision. He is circumcised and intended for his sons to "look" like him. When our first son was born, I reluctantly agreed to the procedure since he was so set on it. When the nurse came for the baby, I became panicky and immediately grabbed Zachary back, saying I'd changed my mind. DH wasn't there to make me go through with it. When he realized that I'd deliberately changed my mind, he was a little annoyed. But I told him that there was no way I was going to mutilate my newborn just so he could look like his daddy.
I am glad I stuck to my guns. And now my husband is the biggest anti-circ fanatic there is!

WOOT!!!! I love this! Good for you, mama!


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Fruitful womb, my heart hurts reading your post, I'm so sorry.







Thank you for having the courage to share your story.


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## BunnySlippers (Oct 30, 2007)

IMO if he refuses to discuss the issue, then he does not get a say.
Why does he think he gets the right to make a decision without your imput?
I don't think you need to plead your case to him.
nuh-uh no-way!


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## AGierald (Sep 5, 2007)

i might be a horrible person, but it wasnt up for discussion with me. I told dh this was how it was going to be, and im not like that at ALL... in our house, dh is the one in charge, so for me to stand up and say "this isnt happening" he ended up not arguing because there was no valid reason.

Luckily, (well, not LUCKILY) with the rise of MRSA, he agrees that unneccesary surgery is too much of a risk.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Step one- make it clear this is not up for discussion in so far as it's not an option. Period. Be the mom. Protect the child.

Step two- show videos, share info, MAKE him discuss it (discuss your side even if he doesn't want to- what's he going to do? plug his ears and go lalalalala?)

-Angela


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## rambunctiouscurls (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Step one- make it clear this is not up for discussion and it's not an option. Period. Be the mom. Protect the child.

Step two- show videos, share info, MAKE him discuss it (discuss your side even if he doesn't want to- what's he going to do? plug his ears and go lalalalala?)

-Angela

I think it's ironic that he is the one saying it's not up for discussion







:


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## Papai (Apr 9, 2007)

OP? Any updates?


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## gridley13 (Sep 3, 2004)

Actually that is an interesting approach.

Perhaps YOU are also unwilling to discuss it. The baby will be left intact, and you refuse to discuss it.

I mean, same logic, right? Only with your side, ds will be born with that default position.

I dunno.. it would be interesting to see what he had to say about that.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Um yes keeping ALL the parts you were born with is and should be the default position. This is NOT the fathers or mothers body, it's the childs.


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## DavinaT (Jun 28, 2005)

I guess the atitude here is totally different to the attitude in the U.S. But I just simply DO NOT GET why anyone would want to amputate a perfectly healthy part of a perfectly healthy person without medical reason.







:
My beloved equated is to cosmetic surgery on a non-consenting under-age person!! (he's intact).
Preaching to the choir I know but here, it is simply not done unless there is a defined medical reason and even then a second opinion will usually be sought unless the baby is in pain, discomfort or ill and there is no other medical solution.
I am in full agreement with Papai and TechnoGramola on this. If he flatly refuses to discuss it you can simply flatly refuse to consent to it. It may seem like stone-walling in response to stone-walling but the difference IMO is that you are doing it for the well-being of your son.
If there is any suggestion that he might attempt to have doctor do it without your censent (if this is even lgally possible), make it clear that this will directly and irreparably result in your relationship ending as a married couple. And on foot of this I would definitely agree with the posters who suggested marriage counselling, even just a couple of sessions.
Just because he is the same sex as his & your baby, does not give him the right to have unneccesary surgery carried out on the child.
dnr3301 - that's certainly a direct approach and I admire you for it. Would this be the sort of thing which would get through to someone who is being so immovable on the subject.
Also I get the impression that there are doctors out there who actually perform medically unneccessary) genital surgery on little babies without aneasthetic - hence the thought of a newborn baby's first sexual experience being one of agony. The idea that this could be true actually makes me feel physically sick - that someone could call themselves a person of medical ethic and do that to the most vulnerable of all people is horrific.







:







:


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Caedmyn, have you had any luck yet?


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## Wazabooz (Apr 27, 2006)

Next time you two are having a "baby" discussion (on any topic) ask him what tools & supplies he will need for the circumcision. Then, after his shocked reaction, say "This is a HOME birth, remember? and you said YOU were in charge of that." _[a little misquote is fair, given his refusal to converse]_
Then he'll have to weasel a bit & say "Don't be silly, I'm not actually doing it *myself*..." to which you can reply "How would I know? you didn't want to talk about it. And anyway, I've already informed the [attendant / midwife / doula / whomever]."
Now you've at least got him talking about it. And you'll have a chance to say that, if he's not going to do it himself, then the professional who does will require the written consent of both parents.

The only other option is to have somebody else discuss it with him. My guess is that a professional (preferably male) can overcome his reluctance, by employing a more clinical approach. I agree that there's probably some emotional trauma in his past relating to the foreskin issue. Have the OB/GYN or your current pediatrician give him a call, or bring him along to your next appointment & let the Dr. know ahead of time that they need to have a private discussion on the subject.

Good luck!
Waz


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## dinahx (Sep 17, 2005)

I have to be straight with you, It's your responsibility. I would end my marriage if my husband insisted on mutilating our newborn. That is what circumcision is, plain and simple. I wish you luck. Maybe you could show him all the men who are restoring, or make him watch a circ video.

But if my husband wanted to do ANYTHING harmful to my newborn, I wouldn't consent. Especially something as CLEARLY cosmetic, and not medically justified and clearly risky as cicumcision (MRSA anyone?). God gave us the responsibility to protect our children, as mamas. *If a baby is circumcised in the USA it will be because his MOTHER signed the form.*


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## 2crazykids (Jun 19, 2005)

OP: You've received some really great advice here. We took the time to support you in your goal. How about an update? Hmmmm? What do you think of everything mentioned? Has your DH read any of the articles?


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## *Karen* (Jul 28, 2006)

Here is how I convinced DH. May not be the "best" way since he doesn't necessarily disagree with all circs, but it worked for me.

Tell him that the way circs are done has changed since he was circed. They used to do a tighter circ. One that really had a very easy to maintain penis. They stopped doing this because of the issues that it caused in adulthood, with painful erections when the penis grew. Now they do this loose circ, where adhesions are very common which causes a very hard to maintain penis. This is hard work on HIM and you. Also in 10% of circed boy get meatal stenosis (including my son) from the LACK of foreskin protecting the penis from irritation.

DH concedes that this change in the way circs are done, while better in the long run is much harder on babies.

I agree with him that if any child old enough to decide for himself wants to be circed in adolescence that I will allow it.


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## Microsoap (Dec 29, 2005)

If you want to keep it short, but sweet say: Nope. No circ. Not ever decided by us. His body, his choice.

But want I wanted to say in _your_ case: Nope. No circ. I've educated myself on the issue. You haven't. We're *NOT* doing it _your_ way when _you're_ ignorantly (you could substitute the gentler word "blindly") going to go forward with this when *I* know the consequences! Just accept it.


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## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dinahx* 
I have to be straight with you, It's your responsibility. I would end my marriage if my husband insisted on mutilating our newborn.









: but of course he's intact and he wouldn't. Also I would leave if he hit my children or hurt them intentionally in any other way (which he doesn't).


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## Greg B (Mar 18, 2006)

If he flat out refuses to discuss it and insists that it will happen, and you are opposed, then one thing you can try is formulating a legal document that states your wishes and the consequences for going against them. Then give him that, so he is aware. Really, refusing to discuss it is wrong in so many ways. He cannot have it both ways in my mind. Either he won't discuus it, and then he must defer to your wishes, or he will discuss it, and then you both can come to agreement.

Geesh....


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## travisandjill (Jul 18, 2005)

She just had a M/C...I read her recent posts. Thats why she hasnt been posting here


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## dinahx (Sep 17, 2005)




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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

To the OP: Sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with you.


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## blsilva (Jul 31, 2006)




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## AstridS (Mar 9, 2007)

I'm so sorry







:


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## phdmama06 (Aug 15, 2007)

OP, I am so sorry for your loss. You and your family will be in my thoughts.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I'm so sorry for your loss.


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## littlemizflava (Oct 8, 2006)

if "i dont want to talk about it" dont fly in anything else then it why for this. if he is circ then maybe he is one of those guys who cant think that his parents did something bad to him so to justify what was done to him and prove that is is right he wants it done to his kids. it makes me wonder why he is like this maybe if you send him a email? it might just be a touchie subject thinking that he is not whole/ something wrong with his penis.





















:i just dont get it


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## gridley13 (Sep 3, 2004)

I'm so sorry, OP... my thoughts are with you.


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

I'm so sorry. Wishing you comfort and healing. Take care of yourself.


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