# 12 y.o. ds who intentionally pees on his carpet



## sbm1001

I'm at a loss for what to do. I want to strangle this child!!

He's been intentionally peeing on the carpet in his room. I went in their this morning & found a new spot on the floor by his bed. I woke him up, asking why he did it & his response was "I just didn't want to get up".























:
















WHAT am I doing wrong??? How do I get through to him this is NOT acceptable behavior? I'm at my wits end with him. He knows better than to do this!!!!









Shannon


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## Treasuremapper

I have no idea what to say, that's totally out of bounds. Does he have any other issues going on?


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## snarfywarning

Make him clean it up. Watch him get the rags and soaps himself, and stand there watching while he scrubs it out. Make him do it every time.

"Is spending this long cleaning it worth the time it saves to not make it to the bathroom?"

Maybe put an infant potty seat in his room, or offer to make him cloth diapers to wear around home and school, grind up vegetables to put on his dinner plate, restict all TV and Video games to Baby shows or something. If he wants to be a baby so bad.... 

Both of those things would have put me in my place right away.


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## Mama Dragon

That's not acceptable for a 12 year old even with issues. I'd make him clean it up himself as well.


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## mamajama

Besides the humiliating tactics suggested by snarfywarning (which will accomplish nothing but an escalation of tension and a deeper burying of the underlying cause), how would one go about 'making' the child clean it up?

I can see how this would be frustrating and disturbing behaviour. It seems to me there must be some underlying issues at play. Has he ever had issues with peeing the bed? Is he feeling powerless in any situations in his life? Does he like his bedroom? Is he depressed? Has he exhibited any other unusual behaviours recenly?


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## Mama Dragon

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajama* 
Besides the humiliating tactics suggested by snarfywarning, how would one go about 'making' the child clean it up?

In the same way I "made" my daughter clean up her stinky nasty room this morning - no TV, no playing outside, no nothing til it was done. It's not hard. She got it done in 30 minutes and is happy about it cause her room doesn't smell like butt.


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## wonderwahine

buy him a mens urinal bottle to keep next to his bed from the medical needs isle if hes having such a problem "getting out of bed"

also, regardless of if its humliating or not.....make him clean it up...a 12yr old is old enough to know it is not acceptable and shouldnt be allowed to get away with it without having a concequence, if he did it in public and a cop caught him, there would be a consequence.


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## jane-t-mommy

Call his Pediatrician and request some help, via a consultation with your son!! Something is wrong. Does he drink any caffeinated beverages? (increases urge to go) Isn't he embarrassed? Do his friends do this? Good luck.


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## oldcrunchymom

Has he ever had bed wetting issues? Maybe they have come back and he's embarrassed.

I agree with making him clean it up, though. My kids clean their messes up whether it's an "accident" or not. (If it's an accident, I'll help them.)


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## DawnaRose

I don't think humliating him is the right way to go about solving the problem.







:

Recently I was cleaning the bathroom and leaned over the tub to turn on the water and smelled urine very very strongly, I looked around me and there were yellow spots ALL over the inside of the shower, walls, tub, faucet etc. I freaked the freak out and over reacted completley, but I was so darn surprised and upset to see that much urine.

My son admitted to having done it that morning, and I kept saying "why" and "what would make you do that" and "the toliet is right there, why did you do that" he just started crying and wouldn't answer me, I was very upset and probably handling the situation the wrong way, but I did make him clean it up. Gave him a sponge, some dr bronner in a bottle and told him to get busy.

After I calmed down and he was done cleaning, he told me that he didn't "mean" to do it, but his penis was "straight" and he couldn't make it pee in the toliet.

I was so embaressed for him, I didn't even THINK that could have been why he was doing that, I thought he was just being a naughty boy.








Of course I explained to him what was happening (actually we had talked about things before this, but it didn't hurt to repeat it) and everything was fine. But before that, I never even thought that an erection would be the reason why he couldn't or wouldn't pee in the toliet.

So maybe, just maybe its an issue he can't control but might be a lil too embaressed to tell you the real reason?


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## MamaWindmill

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snarfywarning* 
Make him clean it up. Watch him get the rags and soaps himself, and stand there watching while he scrubs it out. Make him do it every time.

"Is spending this long cleaning it worth the time it saves to not make it to the bathroom?"

Maybe put an infant potty seat in his room, or offer to make him cloth diapers to wear around home and school, grind up vegetables to put on his dinner plate, restict all TV and Video games to Baby shows or something. If he wants to be a baby so bad.... 

Both of those things would have put me in my place right away.

That's terrifying. This kid could be having serious medical and/or psychological issues, and this treatment is absolutely cruel. For real, yikes.


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## mama_bee

definitely do NOT humiliate him! can you imagine if he actually has a medical or psychological problem and is using the "i didn't want to get up" card as an excuse to save himself the embarrasment of admitting his problem? that would be so awful for him to deal with.


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## Shenjall

I like the idea of the bottle next to the bed. I think its a good solution until you get to the drs or a therapist to find out why its happening.

Calmly and potlitely ask him to use it instead of the carpet. And calmly and politely remind him to clean up his mess if he misses. And give him all the tools he needs to clean. Just leave them in his room so he doesnt have to ask for them.

Humiliating is soooo not the way to go. Unless you want things to get worse, of course.


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## marybethorama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_bee* 
definitely do NOT humiliate him! can you imagine if he actually has a medical or psychological problem and is using the "i didn't want to get up" card as an excuse to save himself the embarrasment of admitting his problem? that would be so awful for him to deal with.









I agree


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## Treasuremapper

I agree. A trip to the doctor, or a referral to a urologist, is in order here. Something is definitely going on and the whole shaming baby thing is way out of line, and, btw, sooooo not MDC.


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## talk de jour

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snarfywarning* 
Maybe put an infant potty seat in his room, or offer to make him cloth diapers to wear around home and school, grind up vegetables to put on his dinner plate, restict all TV and Video games to Baby shows or something. If he wants to be a baby so bad.... 

Both of those things would have put me in my place right away.

OMG... are you serious?!

This kid has obviously got some kind of issue. Humiliating, debasing, and dehumanizing him is not going to do ANYTHING!


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## talk de jour

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DawnaRose* 
After I calmed down and he was done cleaning, he told me that he didn't "mean" to do it, but his penis was "straight" and he couldn't make it pee in the toliet.

I was so embaressed for him, I didn't even THINK that could have been why he was doing that, I thought he was just being a naughty boy.








Of course I explained to him what was happening (actually we had talked about things before this, but it didn't hurt to repeat it) and everything was fine. But before that, I never even thought that an erection would be the reason why he couldn't or wouldn't pee in the toliet.

OMG, poor guy! He must've been so embarrassed! I feel for you, mama.

You might want to tell him to try walking around in circles for a bit to try and calm the penis down. My DP swears by it


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## Ruthla

ITA with the others (except snarfywarning.) Take him to the dr and rule out physical causes. Getting him a portable urinal in the meantime is also a good idea.


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## snarfywarning

What the OP said was her sonsaid was "I didnt want to get up"

which to ME means

"I am too lazy to get up in the middle of night and use the bathroom"

I have no reason to think her son is covering for anything else, just that he is lazy. I wish that I could just pee on the ground sometimes, instead of getting out of bed, and I don't have any "issues" but I dont want to have to clean it up, and I am not a baby who doesnt have a choice, so I make the extra effort to get out of bed.

It was not my intent to make him feel bad for some underlying problem, that was only a solution to "lazyness" not some scary urinary tract or emotional issue.


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## MamaWindmill

Quote:

What the OP said was her sonsaid was "I didnt want to get up"

which to ME means

"I am too lazy to get up in the middle of night and use the bathroom"
Even if it is "just laziness," having him *wear cloth diapers to school* and forcing him to eat baby food is SHAMING and DEGRADING him. How is it okay to treat anyone that way, especially a child? Frankly, I'm shocked that you think this is appropriate.


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## Elyra

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snarfywarning* 
What the OP said was her sonsaid was "I didnt want to get up"

which to ME means

"I am too lazy to get up in the middle of night and use the bathroom"



To me it could mean "I am really embarrassed and I don't want to talk about it." I have found sometimes kids say stuff like that when they aren't ready to come out and talk about what's really bothering them.


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## snarfywarning

I really dont think the diapers would get as far as school. The typical lazy preteen would shape up the second they were passed a nappy. Not that you would force a 12 year old into a diaper anyways, notice i said "Offer to make him diapers to wear around home and school" OFFER as in "If you dont wanna go in the pot, here is an alternate choice!" I also said "put ground up veggies on his dinner plate" instead of green beans, he gets green bean puree. I didnt say "Feed him only crappy processed baby rice!" You need to brush up on your reading comprehension.

This is a 12 year old we are talking about. Pretty much a teenager. Not some toddler who doesn't know right from wrong.


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## Momtoatweenandteen

I'm assuming that this is an issue and only an issue during the night as you have not mentioned that he is too lazy at school or during waking hours to use the bathroom, and with that said, I would sit him down and have a heart to heart with him...my daughter is 11 and I know for a fact that she would be able to share her feelings, fears, physical concerns, if any.

I agree with the poster who said to see an Urologist-there are so many tests they can run to see if this is a medical issue. You know there is the possibility that your son is what he tells you, lazy with no other reason! If that's the case then staying calm is the answer...I know, easier said than done!
Please let us know how he's doing and I certainly hope it all turns out fine for all!


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## Marsupialmom

I agree with the other ladies of going to see a doctor/counciler. I think there might be an underlying cause that might be embarrassing for him.


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## MamaWindmill

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snarfywarning* 
I really dont think the diapers would get as far as school. The typical lazy preteen would shape up the second they were passed a nappy. Not that you would force a 12 year old into a diaper anyways, notice i said "Offer to make him diapers to wear around home and school" OFFER as in "If you dont wanna go in the pot, here is an alternate choice!" I also said "put ground up veggies on his dinner plate" instead of green beans, he gets green bean puree. I didnt say "Feed him only crappy processed baby rice!" You need to brush up on your reading comprehension.

This is a 12 year old we are talking about. Pretty much a teenager. Not some toddler who doesn't know right from wrong.

It's startling that you truly think that this is an acceptable response to this issue. It's even more bizarre that you think I was appalled at offering him "crappy processed baby rice." Just...wow.


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## snarfywarning

Glad to be the startling one in this conversation. 

I said "Offer to make him diapers" and you said "Force him to wear it to school"
I said "Mashed of Vegetables" and you said "Baby Food"

I am just trying to clarify things a little bit for you, since I think that you arn't quite grasping what I am suggesting.

So here it is again, so you can all stop crucifing me

1. Have him clean up his pee, instead of you (if you are cleaning it up for him) Maybe if he knows that he has to clean it up, he will make the extra effort to get to the bathroom.

2. -If he can't get up to take a leak, give him an potty and a diaper.
-If he can't get up to take a leak, he can't get up to watch TV or play video games.
-If he is truely JUST doing this because he is lazy, and he is "acting like a baby" instead of the teenager he nearly is, then treat him like a "baby"

He will get the point, and he will get it fast. It isnt rubbing his nose in it, it isnt dehumanizing to offer him a diaper or pureed vegetables if he wants to "be a baby" The kid is twelve years old, he has been potty trained for like ten years, and he is just now getting into the lazy teenager phase.

I have no reason to think that children would lie to their parents. If my kid tells me "I didn't want to get up" it means "I didnt wanna get up" I have no reason to not trust her childs word.


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## talk de jour

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snarfywarning* 
Glad to be the startling one in this conversation. 

I said "Offer to make him diapers" and you said "Force him to wear it to school"
I said "Mashed of Vegetables" and you said "Baby Food"

I am just trying to clarify things a little bit for you, since I think that you arn't quite grasping what I am suggesting.

So here it is again, so you can all stop crucifing me

1. Have him clean up his pee, instead of you (if you are cleaning it up for him) Maybe if he knows that he has to clean it up, he will make the extra effort to get to the bathroom.

2. -If he can't get up to take a leak, give him an potty and a diaper.
-If he can't get up to take a leak, he can't get up to watch TV or play video games.
-If he is truely JUST doing this because he is lazy, and he is "acting like a baby" instead of the teenager he nearly is, then treat him like a "baby"

He will get the point, and he will get it fast. It isnt rubbing his nose in it, it isnt dehumanizing to offer him a diaper or pureed vegetables if he wants to "be a baby" The kid is twelve years old, he has been potty trained for like ten years, and he is just now getting into the lazy teenager phase.

I have no reason to think that children would lie to their parents. If my kid tells me "I didn't want to get up" it means "I didnt wanna get up" I have no reason to not trust her childs word.

Where do you even come up with this sick crap? What makes you think it would be a GOOD IDEA? OMG! *checks address bar* Yep, still MDC.. WTF?


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## snarfywarning

Because it works.

ohnoes! Make him take responsibility for his actions, and clean up his own pee.

ohnoes! Offer him a diaper and a potty, because he is being a lazy preteen and is acting like a toddler.

I don't assume that children are liars, so I see no need to take him to get evaluated or take him to 1290830 doctors to get his penis checked for abnomalities, when he just told his mom what is wrong with him.

No need to get hostile and uppity, Ladies, she doesn't have to take my suggestions.


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## Treasuremapper

Snarfy, our reading comprehension is just fine, thank you.

I think you need to brush up on gentle discipline.


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## snarfywarning

Quote:


Originally Posted by *inezyv* 
Snarfy, our reading comprehension is just fine, thank you.

I said that because a PP said that I said force him to wear diapers to school and feed him baby food, when I infact, did not.


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## sbm1001

Where do I even begin?? Yes, he has issues & this could very well be stemming from them.

My ds does feel like he has little control over things in his life right now. He wants to be in public school but cannot fit in to their mold. He's currently home schooled & dislikes it but dislikes PS more because of constantly being in trouble for dumb little things that he sees no point in trying to conform with (like talking out of turn & walking in the wrong direction in the hall, etc.). He was diagnosed ADHD when he was 6 & almost every one of the teachers/principals/councelors I've had conferences with about this (& there have been sooo many over the years) have just wanted to have me put him on meds to try to make him sit still, shut up & pay attention.









He needs some counceling to help him learn ways to better fit in with his peers. He has few friends & the ones he has are a lot like him; a wild handfull & very immature.

He has had bedwetting issues in the past but stopped when he was about 7. He's been to a urologist & they found nothing wrong. I don't think it's a physical problem. I think it's a rebellious thing, though I can't understand for the life of me why he thinks peeing on the floor would get him anywhere.

I am looking for a councelor for him for his issues with getting along with peers & learning techniques to help him focus when someone isn't standing/sitting next to him keeping him focused on his school work. He's a good kid, for the most part, but I know he feels like he doesn't fit in which I know impacts his self-image negatively. He likely won't confide in me because I don't think he knows the root of the issue himself. He just knows he's unhappy.

I'll be sure to bring this issue of peeing up to the councelor when we find one. In the mean time it's so hard & frustrating for me. I hadn't stopped to think about what it must be like for him, being so wrapped up in how I felt.









Anyway, thanks for listening & the advice here.

Shannon


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## snarfywarning

And know that we know more than "just being lazy" I retract my second suggestion, but still say make him clean up his own pee (natural consequence, and whatnot)


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## sbm1001

BTW, I did make him get up & clean it up. He's old enough to do that himself, though I did go in later & work on the spot myself. I felt he needed to take some responsibility for the action, other than to admit he did it. He has a lying problem, too, so I was kind of surprised when he admitted he did it & told me why.

ETA: Another thing I thought of is my 4 y.o. ds has been acting out of character lately, too. I'm due to have a baby in the next few weeks or so & just attributed his clingyness to that. I wonder if my 12 y.o. (he's my oldest, if that matters) is feeling some pressure, or insecurities, or whatever, related to bringing another family member into the picture.

Shannon


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## GooeyRN

Ask him if he has insomnia. My brother has terrible insomnia. If he gets up to use the bathroom during sleep hours, he can not get back to sleep for several hours. So he keeps a bottle next to his bed to pee in. Gross, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do sometimes.

Another idea... Was someone in the bathroom (if there is only one bathroom) showering during the time he usually wakes? Maybe he couldn't/didn't want to wait?

Either way, a bottle to pee in would solve the problem, whether it be laziness, a medical problem, or someone is in the bathroom and he has to go NOW. They are sold in the drugstore pretty cheap.


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## Altair

Are you sure the correct DX is ADHD? Some of the issues you described didn't sound so much like ADHD, but maybe something else going on. I'm a special ed teacher, not a psychologist, but the criteria aren't adding up for ADHD so well.

If I were in your shoes, I would work on updating the DX and seeing what therapies and work at home might help him. I would treat the "social" issues the same way I would with a 12 year old boy with Asperger's. (If you want examples on how that works, I can explain more.) There is likely a social or sensory need this is fufilling.


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## mama_bee

another idea -- even though most twelve year olds would be absolutely mortified to admit this, severe or recurring nightmares are not THAT uncommon. if it happened at night, maybe he had to urinate after a nightmare and was too scared to get out of bed? i know approaching it could be embarrasing since he'll probably look at you like "WHAT? NO WAY!" but i think it's worth asking. after a traumatic event in my life just over a year ago, as an adult woman, i had nightmares so bad there were several occasions i was too scared to get out of bed for ANYTHING. i never urinated in or around my bed but if i had to pee during one of those episodes following a nightmare, i just might have considered it.


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## roadfamily6now

PHP Code:


Code:


[CODE]<span style="color:#000000;"><span style="color:#0000BB;">Besides the humiliating tactics suggested by snarfywarning </span><span style="color:#007700;">(</span><span style="color:#0000BB;">which will accomplish nothing but an escalation of tension </span><span style="color:#007700;">and </span><span style="color:#0000BB;">a deeper burying of the underlying cause</span><span style="color:#007700;">), </span><span style="color:#0000BB;">how would one go about </span><span style="color:#DD0000;">'making' </span><span style="color:#0000BB;">the child clean it up</span><span style="color:#007700;">? <br></span> </span>

 [/CODE]

Okay, that might be great for your house.
My DD used to paint with her poop. Nothing going on there except she thought it was fun. Mind you she was 2 1/2. Everything we tired failed. Finally, we made her help clean it up. And guess what? It worked.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *romans_mum* 
buy him a mens urinal bottle to keep next to his bed from the medical needs isle if hes having such a problem "getting out of bed"

also, regardless of if its humliating or not.....make him clean it up...a 12yr old is old enough to know it is not acceptable and shouldnt be allowed to get away with it without having a concequence, if he did it in public and a cop caught him, there would be a consequence.


I totally agree.


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## roadfamily6now

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snarfywarning* 
What the OP said was her sonsaid was "I didnt want to get up"

which to ME means

"I am too lazy to get up in the middle of night and use the bathroom"

I have no reason to think her son is covering for anything else, just that he is lazy. I wish that I could just pee on the ground sometimes, instead of getting out of bed, and I don't have any "issues" but I dont want to have to clean it up, and I am not a baby who doesnt have a choice, so I make the extra effort to get out of bed.

It was not my intent to make him feel bad for some underlying problem, that was only a solution to "lazyness" not some scary urinary tract or emotional issue.


I have a 12 year old son and I totally agree with this post.

I dont condone her ideas of humiliation but I also DID NOT take her seriously.


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## sbm1001

UPDATE!:

Okay, so I approached him after posting, hoping he'd tell me what's going on with him. He was embarassed to even talk about it at first because he thought I'd laugh at him.







He said he peed on his floor because he's afraid of the dark. While this may make no sense to some I totally understood what he meant. He sees & hears noises in the dark & at the age of 12 I think he expects that's something that he should've grown out of by now. At first, before I got him to confide in me, his words were "it's a 7 y.o. thing", so I'm pretty sure he was just embarassed/ashamed to still be dealing with this at 12. He said he sees things on the floor & they look like something else like a face or something else frightening & sometimes he thinks he hears footsteps (we've had wierd happenings around here since we moved in a few months ago....another story altogether).

He said sometimes he's afraid to get out of his bed, for fear whatever he's "seeing" will get him. When I was his age I still saw things that weren't really there, half between sleep & consciousness, & often heard my sexually abusive fathers voice whispering my name as I was drifting off to sleep, which would immediately startle me awake. I know my issues were different but they at least help me to understand why being afraid of the dark might cause him to not want to get out of bed. I don't think his issue with the dark is much more than an overactive imagination, which makes me feel better about the whole thing.

I offered to buy him one of those men's urinals if he promised to use it instead of the carpet. I also offered to get him a nightlight & talked to him about being embarassed about being afraid of the dark. I explained people sometimes laugh or make fun of things they don't/can't understand & while that does make them insensitive & sometimes judgemental, he shouldn't feel ashamed.

Shannon


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## Ms. Mom

Shannon, there is a lot going on around you, especially with a new baby due









My son is the same age and one thing I've noticed is they're in a very transitional time. Not yet a full blown teen and definately not a kid anymore. I do remember being 12 -14 and I have to say, it was the most confusing time of my life. Do take some time to sit with him and talk, not just about this, but about life how he's feeling about school, friendships and the new baby.

You mentioned that he's feeling that he has little control over things. I think you hit on something very important and as his mother, I bet your right. Are their things he can do around the house to be more helpful and in control - not chores, but things that would make him feel like a more 'grown up' member of the family. Ask for his help in planning the weekly meals (maybe have him write down some meal choices). Have him plan a day outing and give him a few suggestions like zoo, art museum, nature center. See what he's interested in and let him plan it all (you may have to give him a budget).

Lastly, do talk to him about his peeing, you saw that asking him why only puts him on the defense, so try asking him if he could try to hit the bathroom next time because it's really hard on you when you come in to find pee on the carpet, explain how it soaks into the floor and makes things very unsanitary and that you're concerned for his heath.

Another poster mentioned errection, this could very well be a part of the problem and may be worth discussing.

Now, there have been some posts here that have trailed off the original posted topic, let's try to keep in mind the OP's issue and try to offer her some supportive suggestions. I really hope we can keep this about the OP and her issues and take any personal issues to PM


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## Ms. Mom

Shannon, we cross posted, I'm so glad you taked to him when you were both feeling more nutral. Your a great mama and obviously your in sync with your son. Keep up the good communication


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## sbm1001

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Altair* 
Are you sure the correct DX is ADHD? Some of the issues you described didn't sound so much like ADHD, but maybe something else going on. I'm a special ed teacher, not a psychologist, but the criteria aren't adding up for ADHD so well.

If I were in your shoes, I would work on updating the DX and seeing what therapies and work at home might help him. I would treat the "social" issues the same way I would with a 12 year old boy with Asperger's. (If you want examples on how that works, I can explain more.) There is likely a social or sensory need this is fufilling.

Altair, I do need to get him re-evaluated but I have a deep mistrust for a lot of the medical community so I've not done that as of yet. I feel like they just want to medicate him & call it good, which I'm not okay with. I've felt for some time he's dealing with more than just ADHD but was trying to approach it differently than those in the medical field & his teachers & councelors were pushing for. I tried making dietary changes & "treating" him with herbs, but nothing seems to make an real impact.

I would love to hear how a 12 y.o. with Asperger's social issues would be treated. Asperger's isn't something I've looked in to or know too much about. I don't know about the social or sensory need being fulfilled, but I'm willing to consider anything & appreciate the guidance.

Shannon


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## sbm1001

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ms. Mom* 
Shannon, we cross posted, I'm so glad you taked to him when you were both feeling more nutral. Your a great mama and obviously your in sync with your son. Keep up the good communication









Thanks, Ms. Mom.









I feel so much "lighter", having been able to get to the heart of it & come to some understanding. Many parenting issues don't get to that point for a long time, let alone in the same day. I feel blessed.







: That could be just the pg hormones talking, but boy does it feel good right now.









Shannon


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## mama_bee

i'm so glad he was able to confide in you and tell you the reason. thank goodness you didn't press the issue or punish him in a way that would humiliate him. i'm sure he feels much better knowing that you aren't judgemental or upset, you just care.


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## Mama Dragon

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbm1001* 
UPDATE!:

Okay, so I approached him after posting, hoping he'd tell me what's going on with him. He was embarassed to even talk about it at first because he thought I'd laugh at him.







He said he peed on his floor because he's afraid of the dark. While this may make no sense to some I totally understood what he meant. He sees & hears noises in the dark & at the age of 12 I think he expects that's something that he should've grown out of by now. At first, before I got him to confide in me, his words were "it's a 7 y.o. thing", so I'm pretty sure he was just embarassed/ashamed to still be dealing with this at 12. He said he sees things on the floor & they look like something else like a face or something else frightening & sometimes he thinks he hears footsteps (we've had wierd happenings around here since we moved in a few months ago....another story altogether).

He said sometimes he's afraid to get out of his bed, for fear whatever he's "seeing" will get him. When I was his age I still saw things that weren't really there, half between sleep & consciousness, & often heard my sexually abusive fathers voice whispering my name as I was drifting off to sleep, which would immediately startle me awake. I know my issues were different but they at least help me to understand why being afraid of the dark might cause him to not want to get out of bed. I don't think his issue with the dark is much more than an overactive imagination, which makes me feel better about the whole thing.

I offered to buy him one of those men's urinals if he promised to use it instead of the carpet. I also offered to get him a nightlight & talked to him about being embarassed about being afraid of the dark. I explained people sometimes laugh or make fun of things they don't/can't understand & while that does make them insensitive & sometimes judgemental, he shouldn't feel ashamed.

Shannon

You rock







Glad to hear that update!


----------



## mamajama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbm1001* 
Thanks, Ms. Mom.









I feel so much "lighter", having been able to get to the heart of it & come to some understanding. Many parenting issues don't get to that point for a long time, let alone in the same day. I feel blessed.







: That could be just the pg hormones talking, but boy does it feel good right now.









Shannon

you rock.


----------



## BelovedK

I'm so glad you got that resolved. I feel for him, I used to be afraid at night and hear things and be afraid to get up. I think it is great that he was able to tell you about his fears. Keep up the good communication


----------



## Brilliantmama

First off, good job pursuing the conversation, and getting to the real issues at heart. I think the urinal (just in case) and nightlights are a terrific solution.

Also, as a social worker, I would recommend that in looking for a new counselor, be really upfront and say what you are looking for, e.g. behavioral techniques to help with Asperger's traits, no medication referrals, etc. There are a lot of behavioral "tricks" that Asperger's kids can be taught to help with social problems. (e.g. mirroring: shaping one's energy level/attitude/behavior after designated peer role models.) I have a friend (25 yrs old) who "learned" how to read body language and such and does great.

FWIW: It sounds like he is doing well to have you for a mama. Keep up the loving attention and conversations.









HTH


----------



## Flor

I just wanted to add that I was deathly afraid of the dark until I was in college, really. I don't have any other "issues" or disorders or anything. Just a wild imagination, less than perfect vision, and too many scary movies. I was feelin' for him.


----------



## Primigravida

If this was my child, I'll be concerned that he had a bladder problem because I did _(well, still do but I don't consumer sugary beverages so I don't have them anymore)_.









I kept a large pickle jar under my bed for years.









Now if it turns out that he's just lazy







: , I'll make him clean that mess up and put a pickle jar under his bed.


----------



## Greensleeves

You did a phenomenal job talking to him about it.

I think sometimes people forget how young 12 still is. Children's brains are still so immature at that age. I remember being scared of the dark at that age too. Frankly, I still get freaked out at night by noises.

Glad you didn't take some of the more dubious advice on this thread, wowee.


----------



## PikkuMyy

Another special ed teacher here chiming in to have him reevaluated by the school - rather than doctors. And the suggestion to ask for behavioral techniques/counseling as opposed to meds is a very valid one. I work with kids on the Autism spectrum, and although a few of them are on meds, I use behavioral techniques very successfully with all of them.


----------



## Yoshua

Just wanted to say thank you.

I have been watching this thread wondering how you would find a solution to finding the problem/resolving the situation.

I was completely dumbfounded, and even though alot of people gave great advice I wanted to know how the story would pan out.

I am happy that you 2 talked it out and sorted it out, and it will help me if I ever run into anything like this in the future. Jake is a few years away from pre-teen but you can never study up too early.

Thanks again, you did an awesome job, and thanks for filling us in on the results.


----------



## TiredX2

Thanks for sharing this with us.

My oldest is 7 so it really helps me to read about what is coming up.

I was still scared of the dark well into my teens (okay, since DP has witnessed it, I'm lying about that teens thing














. I think it is more common than your son thinks.

You did great







:


----------



## Bartock

Well I use to pee on my carpet at 16







: I was in a foster home and had major probs from my step dad, I say get him in concelling or something, there has to be some kinda underlying problem.


----------



## GooeyRN

I am glad you found out the real reason. A nightlight and a urinal kept at his bedside should help the carpets out! Thankfully it isn't a psychological or medical problem.


----------



## nextcommercial

I didn't read any threads... so I may be repeating something.

My brother was a sleepwalker. He would pee in The weirdest places. My hamper was one of his favorites. He would pee in the closet, on the basement stairs.. etc.

Maybe he is sleepwalking?

If this is not sleepwalking, then you have my blessing to go ahead and strangle him. Or make him start sleeping in the bathtub.


----------



## lindberg99

This probably isn't the case but I read this to my DH (who was diagnosed with Type I diabetes when he was 12). He said before he found out about the diabetes, he had to pee all the time and sometimes had a hard time getting to the bathroom in time. Just something else to think about, esp. if you see him using the bathroom a lot during the day. DH said he had to go after every class at school.


----------



## cottonwood

I am just flabbergasted that anyone would think that a 12-year-old would pee on the carpet for no reason other than "laziness". That's incredibly naive and simplistic. You've got a lot to learn about human nature, and I feel sorry for your child if you don't figure it out pretty soon.

To the OP, I am glad to hear the update. It's a testament to your relationship with your son that he felt safe opening up to you about something that no doubt feels shameful to him.

About being afraid of the dark -- up until I was an adult every time I climbed the stairs from my parents basement I had the creepy feeling that something was behind me. I knew it was irrational, but I couldn't stop myself from feeling that way. (It was based in a childhood incident, I believe.) I saw weird things in the dark too, and had night terrors until I was an adult. Developmentally, some things take longer than others for us to grow out of. Irrational fears aren't only the stuff of childhood. And after all, your son isn't exactly an adult yet, right?








to you and son.


----------



## dharmamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbm1001* 
He said he peed on his floor because he's afraid of the dark.

I wet my bed for a few months when I was 7 because I was afraid that if I got out of bed, the thing under the bed would reach out and grab me by the ankles and pull me under.

My parents were concerned at first and then angry. Finally they thought to ask me why I was doing it and I told them. The let me sleep with my light on, the hall the light on, and the bathroom light on. They also said I could call them and they would take me to the bathroom. I slept with the lights on for a while and then I didn't need them anymore.

Namaste!


----------



## Elyra

I was just thinking about this again. Maybe for a night light you could put one in the bathroom, and one in the hallway. Then for his room you could go to one of the discount type stores and pick out one of those groovy neon lights or lava lamps or something like that so if he has friends over it just looks like a cool room accessory. Just a thought. But I am so glad you were able to talk to him and get to the heart of it.







You did great.


----------



## laohaire

I have night terrors. I won't bore you with the details, but I see the bedroom fairly realistically except I ALSO see something scary (usually spiders for me). The ONLY thing that snaps me out of it is a light coming on. I don't think a nightlight is enough for me, it has to illuminate the room well.

Until the light comes on, I'm irrational. I whine, I plead, I yell, I bang on the wall. Sometimes I even cry. I've never peed on the floor, but who knows.

So I like the nightlight idea but I like even better the idea of a lamp RIGHT BESIDE THE BED that is easy to turn on in a second. No need to get up - just right there. See if your son likes that idea. Maybe even one of those touch-lamps so he doesn't have to fumble with a switch - just reach out, and it's on.

Also, as a separate personal anecdote, I had some bedwetting problems as a child - about 6 if I remember correctly. This is all first-hand memory; my mom never brought this up to me again. I wet the bed once - by accident, I'm almost positive. After that, I wet the bed a few more times. Not quite by accident. But not to be a bad girl, either. It wasn't fear of the dark in my case. I don't know what I was thinking - maybe I just got used to it the first time, and the result wasn't so horrible, so ... Anyway, my mom never yelled at me. She took me to the pediatrician, and he examined me, and he said that there was nothing wrong with me and I was just wetting the bed. He said something about discliplining me. Now, here's the important part: after that visit, we went out to the car, and my mom turned to me before turning the car on and said "I believe you. We'll figure this out. Don't worry." I had felt so stressed about being a bad girl, and not really knowing how to fix it (yeah, to kids "stop peeing" isn't always that obvious...). But I felt so much better when my mom said that. She believed me! (As for what exactly she believed I don't remember, but it doesn't matter). I was so relieved. I never, ever peed the bed again. I was just so relieved in my mother's faith and love in me.

Hope my two anecdotes help.


----------



## Zonie

O.K, I am going to be the insensitive B**** here. Because There's always at least one.

He is TWELVE! not four.

O.K, he is afraid of the dark. I understand that. But, Twelve??????? Twelve is old enough to think of something else to do besides pee on the rug.

Twelve year olds have enough common sense to turn on a light, look around the room and walk down the hallway.

I would not put up with that at twelve. What would his friends think if they see a porta potty in his bedroom? Buy him three night lights, and a lamp next to his bed.

I am a mean B**** I know, but I don't think saying "I am afraid of the dark" excuses him peeing on the carpet.

BUT, I would Totally buy the "I was sleep walking" defense.


----------



## wonderwahine

that attitude is exactly why he was scared to tell his mom.


----------



## laohaire

I remember twelve. Twelve looks a lot more grownup than they are.

In any event, yelling at him: "You're twelve! I don't buy it!" isn't gonna help (I assume you agree).

The OP can at least try to see how it goes after her talk with him. If it continues, I'm sure she'll ask for additional input (or not, if she doesn't think this round was helpful!).


----------



## Brilliantmama

A child eliminating inappropriately is *almost* always a sign of significant emotional issues. His mom indicated that he has Asperger's traits, that could be a real source as well as a significant phobia or the like.

Even if a child eliminates as part of "acting out" they are asking for attention and help for something they cannot handle on their own.

A child who is exhibiting this behavior needs to be evaluated by a trained professional, not humiliated.

Typically, a normal teen's "laziness" does not include elimination problems.

Let's give this kid a break, a 12 yr old without issues is usually not the best at problem solving.


----------



## MamaWindmill

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zonie* 
O.K, I am going to be the insensitive B**** here.

Apparently so.


----------



## fek&fuzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zonie* 
O.K, I am going to be the insensitive B**** here. Because There's always at least one.

He is TWELVE! not four.

O.K, he is afraid of the dark. I understand that. But, Twelve??????? Twelve is old enough to think of something else to do besides pee on the rug.

Twelve year olds have enough common sense to turn on a light, look around the room and walk down the hallway.

I would not put up with that at twelve. What would his friends think if they see a porta potty in his bedroom? Buy him three night lights, and a lamp next to his bed.

I am a mean B**** I know, but I don't think saying "I am afraid of the dark" excuses him peeing on the carpet.

BUT, I would Totally buy the "I was sleep walking" defense.

Hopefully you don't get old and need assistance from your children or anyone else for toileting due to physical or mental issues. And if you do, I pray they treat you with compassion, understanding and sensitivity and not this sort of attitude.

I pity you.


----------



## Zonie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *romans_mum* 
that attitude is exactly why he was scared to tell his mom.

No it isn't. He was scared to tell his mom because it is silly. He peed on the floor because he was afraid of the dark. Who wouldn't be afraid to admit that, much less a 12 year old boy. That is embarassment. Not fear of how mommy will react.

I think I have the right attitude here. I think everybody elses attitude is why a 12 year old boy would choose to pee on his own carpet. Maybe he thinks urine evaporates after it dries. But, eventually he will smell it himself. (well maybe not, my brothers room smelled like a locker, and he didn't notice)

This is a teenager, a junior high student, a boy who will be driving in four years. I think some level of responsibility is called for here. Society will not be kind to him, if this is "aww, poor kid was so afraid of his house that he chose to urinate next to his bed, rather than get up and turn on a light". Not that anybody would ever find out. But, the general attitude that it is OK, is what is going to cause him problems.

There may be more to the story that he hasn't told Mom about. But, if the story really is that he is too afraid to get out of bed, then I think he needs to find a new plan.

I am still holding out for my Sleep walking theory. Or some kind of cruel puberty thing that I don't know about.


----------



## Shenjall

Quote:

Now, here's the important part: after that visit, we went out to the car, and my mom turned to me before turning the car on and said "I believe you. We'll figure this out. Don't worry." I had felt so stressed about being a bad girl, and not really knowing how to fix it (yeah, to kids "stop peeing" isn't always that obvious...). But I felt so much better when my mom said that. She believed me! (As for what exactly she believed I don't remember, but it doesn't matter). I was so relieved. I never, ever peed the bed again. I was just so relieved in my mother's faith and love in me.
The absolute beauty and love in this brought tears to my eyes.

Why dont we ever give kids the benefit of the doubt? We see a parent yelling at her kid at the store and we encourage one another to think, "hey, maybe she's just having a bad day" we shouldnt judge. To which I agree. So why cant we think that way about a 12 year old? It just _has_ to be laziness, right? Is this more of the kids are born evil and we have to "set them straight"?

12 is not an adult. No where even close. Why is so much expected from them? We dont expect perfection from grown ups, why a child? So sad, so very sad.

(fek, I'm watching you







)


----------



## Zonie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fek&fuzz* 
Hopefully you don't get old and need assistance from your children or anyone else for toileting due to physical or mental issues. And if you do, I pray they treat you with compassion, understanding and sensitivity and not this sort of attitude.

I pity you.

But, she said this isn't a physical or mental issue. He chose to do this. A physical or mental issue, I could understand.


----------



## Zonie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brilliantmama* 
His mom indicated that he has Asperger's traits,

O.K, THAT part I missed.

Understand, I am picturing the average normal junior high student. The seventh grader that you see at the bus stop. If there is nothing at all wrong, and he just doesn't want to get up, he needs to be responsible.


----------



## fek&fuzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shenjall* 
The absolute beauty and love in this brought tears to my eyes.

Why dont we ever give kids the benefit of the doubt? We see a parent yelling at her kid at the store and we encourage one another to think, "hey, maybe she's just having a bad day" we shouldnt judge. To which I agree. So why cant we think that way about a 12 year old? It just _has_ to be laziness, right? Is this more of the kids are born evil and we have to "set them straight"?

12 is not an adult. No where even close. Why is so much expected from them? We dont expect perfection from grown ups, why a child? So sad, so very sad.

(fek, I'm watching you







)

(







)


----------



## fek&fuzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zonie* 
O.K, THAT part I missed.

Understand, I am picturing the average normal junior high student. The seventh grader that you see at the bus stop. If there is nothing at all wrong, and he just doesn't want to get up, he needs to be responsible.

Zonie, It seems you have never been as terrified of the dark as that boy and a lot of us on this thread. Do you not get that "being responsible" has nothing to do with it? That was what I meant by mental issues - emotions, feelings, etc.


----------



## joesmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zonie* 
O.K, I am going to be the insensitive B**** here.









: You're doing a good job of it, I'll say that for you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zonie* 
No it isn't. He was scared to tell his mom because it is silly. He peed on the floor because he was afraid of the dark. Who wouldn't be afraid to admit that, much less a 12 year old boy. That is embarassment. Not fear of how mommy will react.

I think I have the right attitude here. I think everybody elses attitude is why a 12 year old boy would choose to pee on his own carpet. Maybe he thinks urine evaporates after it dries. But, eventually he will smell it himself. (well maybe not, my brothers room smelled like a locker, and he didn't notice)

This is a teenager, a junior high student, a boy who will be driving in four years. I think some level of responsibility is called for here. Society will not be kind to him, if this is "aww, poor kid was so afraid of his house that he chose to urinate next to his bed, rather than get up and turn on a light". Not that anybody would ever find out. But, the general attitude that it is OK, is what is going to cause him problems.

There may be more to the story that he hasn't told Mom about. But, if the story really is that he is too afraid to get out of bed, then I think he needs to find a new plan.

I am still holding out for my Sleep walking theory. Or some kind of cruel puberty thing that I don't know about.


I can't think of any reason why a "normal" 12 year old would choose to pee on his carpet, & I am so thankful for this kid that his mom doesn't have the heartless attitude that some of these posters have.







I am so sad to see these things being posted at MDC. Just because our kids get older doesn't mean they stop deserving to be parented with love, attachment and respect.

I agree that he definitely sounds like he could be on the asperger spectrum, & that is not a fun place for a kid to be, as far as peers go. Kids can be cruel, that's for sure...

(Reading this thread, I know where some of them get it...)


----------



## Altair

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbm1001* 
Altair, I do need to get him re-evaluated but I have a deep mistrust for a lot of the medical community so I've not done that as of yet. I feel like they just want to medicate him & call it good, which I'm not okay with. I've felt for some time he's dealing with more than just ADHD but was trying to approach it differently than those in the medical field & his teachers & councelors were pushing for. I tried making dietary changes & "treating" him with herbs, but nothing seems to make an real impact.

I would love to hear how a 12 y.o. with Asperger's social issues would be treated. Asperger's isn't something I've looked in to or know too much about. I don't know about the social or sensory need being fulfilled, but I'm willing to consider anything & appreciate the guidance.

Shannon


I don't think it sounds like something medication would fix-- it sounds like he needs more social and behavioral therapy. That sounds so medical and harsh, but it can be 100% play therapy if you want.

As for what I would do with a 12 year old with Asperger's-like social issues-- I would start with Michelle Winner and her "social thinking" work. www.socialthinking.com for younger kids, i love RDI, but he's past that stage.

Winner does a good job of explaining social phenomenon to kids who just don't naturally pick it up... in a very gentle non-judgemenal way. She breaks down social interactions into very small parts, so that the child can actually see them work and not just be confused by the large picture.


----------



## Moon Faerie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zonie* 
Twelve year olds have enough common sense to turn on a light, look around the room and walk down the hallway.

I'm 26, 27 next month, and if my light switch wasn't where I could reach it while still in bed, there's no freaking way I'd get out of bed in the dark.


----------



## A&A

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snarfywarning* 

"I am too lazy to get up in the middle of night and use the bathroom"


Normal, healthy, nothing-else-going-on 12 year-olds are NEVER too lazy to walk into the bathroom. Something else (depression? medical problem? a severe need to get your attention?) is going on with this boy.


----------



## A&A

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbm1001* 

, & often heard my sexually abusive fathers voice whispering my name as I was drifting off to sleep, which would immediately startle me awake.


Please, please, please tell me that your son has never been left alone with this grandpa!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Dar

Just a gentle reminder of the Mothering philosophy...

Quote:

Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems.
That quote from Peggy is part of the Gentle Discipline forum guidelines, but I think it applies here. Children make choices in an attempt to meet their needs, and our role as parents is to help them find better ways to meet those needs. Shaming children is not okay. Clearly peeing on the floor is not okay, but there are gentle, respectful ways to help solve that problem, and those are the ones we look for here.

Dar


----------



## talk de jour

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
I didn't read any threads... so I may be repeating something.

My brother was a sleepwalker. He would pee in The weirdest places. My hamper was one of his favorites. He would pee in the closet, on the basement stairs.. etc.

Maybe he is sleepwalking?

I know a LOT of people (including myself) who have dreamed about peeing and then started doing it in their sleep, waking up a little too late to catch themselves.









Maybe that's what happened, and he's too embarrassed to let OP know? Like he'll feel silly?


----------



## Qerratsmom

I have taught middle school and 12 year old boys, even ones that have no mental or physical problems, are still very young and immature and actually can cry easier than the girls. I would never shame a CHILD. I hope Zonie has a chance to modify her opinion on adolecent children before her own children reach that age. Twelve is still very young. If I were the OP and it was my son, I would be offended by Zonie's suggestions.


----------



## joesmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
Shaming children is not okay. Clearly peeing on the floor is not okay, but there are gentle, respectful ways to help solve that problem, and those are the ones we look for here.

Dar

Great post. Thank you.


----------



## MamaWindmill

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qerratsmom* 
I have taught middle school and 12 year old boys, even ones that have no mental or physical problems, are still very young and immature and actually can cry easier than the girls. I would never shame a CHILD. I hope Zonie has a chance to modify her opinion on adolecent children before her own children reach that age. Twelve is still very young. If I were the OP and it was my son, I would be offended by Zonie's suggestions.

I agree whole-heartedly. There also seems to be an undercurrent of hostility toward the child - is it because he's a boy? WOuld people have spewed such angry garbage if this were a girl?


----------



## Purrfect_doll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbm1001* 
I would love to hear how a 12 y.o. with Asperger's social issues would be treated. Asperger's isn't something I've looked in to or know too much about. I don't know about the social or sensory need being fulfilled, but I'm willing to consider anything & appreciate the guidance.

Shannon

Shannon first off good on you for working thru this with your son. Sometimes they do things we just don't understand and getting to the root of the problem is always harder than it looks. I feel for your son, I still have issues with getting out of bed at night because like him I tend to see things in the dark that just aren't there.

I have a son with Asperger's and we've had floor wetting problems in the past. He is nearly 9 now. What we did for the night light part of things was to buy him a clock radio that has HUGE green lit numbers on it and a brightness setting. (Wal-mart under $20) This allows him to have a dimly lit room without the stigma a night light can cause with friends who just don't get it.

As for the treatment we started with Brain Integration Therapy (BIT) and so far haven't had to go any farther. He's a high functioning Aspie and if you didn't hang with him 24/7 you wouldn't notice most of his issues. BIT is a series of cross over exercises that help to strengthen the connections between the two halves of the brain. The therapist will test to find what areas need to be adjusted and work accordingly. My son ened up with a series of ten 45 minute appointments and then he was done. Not only has this helped with night problems (like night terrors and bed wetting) but it has also helped him greatly with relationship issues. He now has some great friends and is willing to talk to new people (something he has never done in the past). He makes eye contact when talking to you now and his speech has cleared up quite a bit. Friends who hadn't seen him for a few months noted the major difference in his behavior and attitude. He used to have severe sound and light sensitivity pre-BIT. He is my kid who would hit the floor if he heard a loud noise or start to freak out if he was in flourescent lighting for more than 1 hour. Now he can handle loud noises and shopping has become easier since the lights don't make his brain do weird things anymore.









I also went thru the BIT sessions myself due to having a minor stroke before my kidney problems were diagnosed....and now with a potential MS diagnosis hanging over me the doctors can't figure out why I'm not having more symptoms. I truly think the strengthening of the connections in my brain during the therapy sessions has kept me from having more serious symptoms from the obvious brain problems on my MRI.

I'd be happy to send you a sheet with the exercises on it, as I have a second one, so you can see what it entails. Good luck with him, keep listening and you'll do fine.


----------



## Flor

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shenjall* 

12 is not an adult. No where even close. Why is so much expected from them? We dont expect perfection from grown ups, why a child? So sad, so very sad.

(fek, I'm watching you







)


I agree. I think an 18 is BARELY and adult, so twleve is still a baby to me.

Zonie--
As for the real world not being kind to him, well, I don't think it's mom's job to be mean to him just so the cruel world won' t feel as bad. Did I miss it, how old are your kids?


----------



## teastaigh

I'm still afraid of the dark and sleep with the closet light on.
It was very comforting for me, as an adult, to have my dog
sleeping on the floor next to me. I was still nervous getting up
to use the bathroom. I have very bad sleep when my husband
travels as I'm worried and vigilent about being the only parent
at home.

Do you know the poem, Desiderata? One line is "many fears
are born of fatigue and loneliness." The morning and the sunshine
bring great calm. Night is a time of processing that which is
deep inside, the happenings of the day, our consious and
unconscious wonderings.

I think I'd encourage you to just make sure nothing deeper than
fear of the dark is also going on. Is there something else your
son fears? Did something happen? Are there problems at school?
Sometimes we act out what we're worried about too.

Mainly, though, I think we should believe our children. I believe
mine and I believe yours. Why shouldn't I? Don't we want to
be kind and gentle so that our children will learn to be so and will
also expect to be treated thusly?

Are you pursuing some fear of the dark remedies for your son? Does
he have ideas for what might help? You might make a list. Sometimes
light isn't enough. Does he share a room? Is it an option to maybe
have a sleeping bag in your room if he needs that attachment to feel
safe? Does he feel that he can wake you up at night to talk or to be
reassured if he's upset?

I remember being so alone at night. I had no idea that my adulthood
would include the absolute loving, warm security of sleeping next to
my dear husband.

I'm sad to see the hostile, anti-boy sentiment in some of the posts. I
like to think that these are a minority, an aberration, and hopefully not
an unhealthiness that's being cultivated in familes and towards children
out there.

Please let us know how things are going. I feel for your son. By the way,
I think setting the calm, non-negotiable expectation that you explain to
him how to clean his room and that he do it is a good idea. This gives him
some control back too. It also teaches him that he can recover from errors
and that he's an agent of change and progress in his own life. I remember the
weight that lifted off me when I realized that I can apologize to those I love
and enlist their help in improving.

peace,
teastaigh


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## JustJamie

I'm 24, married, with a 15 month old daughter, and I'm terrified of the dark, to the point that if I wake up in the middle of the night, and there aren't lights on in the bedroom, the hallway, AND the bathroom, I will wake up my DH and make him get up and go turn on the lights for me. I'm fortunate that I do have someone next to me who is understanding of my fear and will get out of bed to go turn on the lights. It was really hard for me when I slept alone, and I had many nights where I lay awake in bed just praying for the sun to come up.

There is a product that you may or may not want to get him; I'm pretty sure my DH is getting it for me for Christmas- it's called Brightfeet, and it's literally slippers with a flashlight in the toes.

http://www.x-tremegeek.com/templates...roductID=10823


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## sphinxie

Shannon, you handled that so well!

This reminds me of a sleep disorder a friend may have. I didn't save the actual link but it was related to this: http://www.sleepeducation.com/Disorder.aspx?id=36

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zonie* 
O.K, THAT part I missed.

Understand, I am picturing the average normal junior high student. The seventh grader that you see at the bus stop. If there is nothing at all wrong, and he just doesn't want to get up, he needs to be responsible.

Suppose she had not mentioned that her son had this issue? Suppose she was not even aware that he did, but he did anyway? Suppose he had a different issue that she was not aware of?

There is nothing good about being quick to vilify a child.


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## doctorjen

I remember being 12 very, very clearly. For some reason, when I was 12 (actaully from about 12-14) I started to have chronic nightmares. Most of them were so silly that now I can't imagine why they scared me, and many of them were not even scary situations, but there was an overwhelming feeling of terror during them. I remember that at that age, I felt I was too old to go to my mom for comfort in the night (not that she ever meant to make me feel that way, actually) and so I would lie awake and be terrified for hours. I was chronically exhausted, too. Occasionally, I'd sleep with my mom instead, and have no nightmares at all - but I couldn't come up with reasons that I thought were acceptable to sleep with her all the time. For 2 years, I felt like my life was out of my control - and add in a lot of teasing and bullying at school, and I was really miserable during those years. It was a very scary time, and I couldn't in my pre-teen/young teen brain come up with how to fix it, or even see the obvious solutions like asking to sleep with my mom, using a night light, or whatever.

I finally stopped having the horrible dreams when I somehow learned the technique of directed dreaming - where I could just change the direction of the dream consciously in the middle of it. I also stopped wetting the bed at the same age, because I learned to wake myself up whenever I dreamed about using the bathroom.

I bring this up not because it is the same situation as the OP, but because when I was 12, I remember still feeling so very little and needing my mom - but I thought I was too old for those feelings and I hid them from my mom instead. I think if she has asked me outright if I was having problems like this, I would have told her, but I couldn't figure out how to explain it, so I never did. Years later, when I told my mom about these feelings, she was horrified that I'd been so miserable and she'd not known about it.

I think the OP's son is very lucky that she continued to probe into the situation to find out what could be bothering her child to cause him to act in such an immature way. I hope if a similar situation ever arrises with one of my own, that I'll be able to use her example to be equally understanding.


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## doctorjen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teastaigh* 
I remember being so alone at night. I had no idea that my adulthood
would include the absolute loving, warm security of sleeping next to
my dear husband.


That so sums up my feelings as well. Boy would it have made my childhood better to have known my dh was waiting for me and I would not have to be afraid and alone!


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zonie* 
This is a teenager, a junior high student, a boy who will be driving in four years.

First of all, he's not a teenager.

Second, what does "a boy who will be driving in four years" have to do with _anything_? That's four years!! My son is 13.5, and he doesn't even look like the same person that he looked like at 12. Between August, 2005 and August, 2006, he gained 35 pounds, about six inches in height, started growing body hair and his face changed shape. In just _one_ year, he changed totally. I have no idea what he'll look like, act like or think like by the time he's 16! At 12, he was still a _kid_ - at 13, he was a full-blown teenager. But, that's not about the calendar. He has a few male friends who hit puberty several months or a year before he did, and he has several male friends who aren't there yet.

Third - this:

Quote:

He was scared to tell his mom because it is silly. He peed on the floor because he was afraid of the dark. Who wouldn't be afraid to admit that, *much less a 12 year old boy*.
Why the part I bolded? Why does he deserve so much more crap for being 12? If this boy is so terrified that he'd rather pee on his carpet than get up at night, then he's having a brutally hard time. Who wants to tell their mom that they're terrified when there are so many people who will dismiss that terror as "silly"? Who are you (or me or anybody else) to decide that someone else's fears are "silly"?

I'm not 12. I'm 38. I'm terrified of spiders...I mean terrified like if I see one in my room, I won't sleep that night, and maybe not the next night. I would hold it for _hours_ if my only choice were to get up at night, if I had reason to think there was a spider in the room. I'm aware it's not rational, and I'm sure the OP's son knows that his fear of the dark isn't rational. But, why isn't a 12 year old boy allowed to be terrified of something when grown men and women are afraid? Why should his fears be dismissed like that?

I cannot believe there are people on this thread who actually dismissed this as "normal teenage laziness", just because the boy initially said he didn't want to get up to use the toilet. I've been around a lot of teenagers in my time (friends of the family, then my brother's friends, then my friends, now ds1's friends) and some of them have been poster children for laziness. None of them would have peed on their carpet. The simple fact that the boy did this is a sign that something is _wrong_.

OP: Kudos to you for trying to find a way to deal with this and for having your son's trust to the extent that he was willing to tell you he's scared.


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## laohaire

One thing I'm wondering is if some people think that compassion and understanding for the boy equates to saying "it's ok to pee on the floor."

I've posted several times in this thread, all empathizing with the boy and offering some perspective to share the empathy. I didn't, however, say that the OP should just say "Oh well, he's scared, he can pee on the carpet." I wholeheartedly disagree with that sentiment. This needs to be SOLVED - both because there is something going on with this boy (he's scared or something else) and also because it's just not ok to be peeing on the carpet!

Also in terms of responsibility, I don't see anyone suggesting that he should not have to clean it up. Personally, I - with love and empathy - would have him clean it up, just like the OP did (and like her, I would probably sneak in later and make sure the job was thorough, beyond what we would expect a 12 year old to do). I wouldn't make the cleaning a punishment, either - just a fact of life. If he missed the toilet peeing standing up, it would be his job to clean that too. If I spill a drink, I clean it up. If I track mud on the carpet, I clean it up. Just the way it goes. (One exception for me is - if a child is ill and vomiting, I think a parent should clean that up







).


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## Shenjall

yeah, I think peeing on the floor is the symptom, not the problem......


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
One thing I'm wondering is if some people think that compassion and understanding for the boy equates to saying "it's ok to pee on the floor."

I've posted several times in this thread, all empathizing with the boy and offering some perspective to share the empathy. I didn't, however, say that the OP should just say "Oh well, he's scared, he can pee on the carpet." I wholeheartedly disagree with that sentiment. This needs to be SOLVED - both because there is something going on with this boy (he's scared or something else) and also because it's just not ok to be peeing on the carpet!

Also in terms of responsibility, I don't see anyone suggesting that he should not have to clean it up. Personally, I - with love and empathy - would have him clean it up, just like the OP did (and like her, I would probably sneak in later and make sure the job was thorough, beyond what we would expect a 12 year old to do). I wouldn't make the cleaning a punishment, either - just a fact of life. If he missed the toilet peeing standing up, it would be his job to clean that too. If I spill a drink, I clean it up. If I track mud on the carpet, I clean it up. Just the way it goes. (One exception for me is - if a child is ill and vomiting, I think a parent should clean that up







).









:
I agree completely...including the part about a vomiting child. I sure don't want to have to clean it up myself when _I'm_ sick!


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## stacey2061

this is a toughie...i'm no expert but i think maybe a man should discuss this with him. men do some weird things for reasons that would dumbfound a woman. 2 years ago my little b-i-l was 11 and we were renting the basement of their family home (also shared with older b-i-l who is in his late 20s). it's a long story but we discovered that older b-i-l was urinating into pop bottles and keeping them (uncovered!) in his room when one of the cats knocked a bottle over. it was disgusting...he said it was because he didn't feel like getting up to use the washroom (which was about 15 feet away from his room)...shortly thereafter we were watching younger b-i-l overnight. late that night he got up frantically looking for a bottle to pee in, instead of going across the hall to his private washroom! i was livid, but tried to be gentle with him. he's always been really good about talking to me but this was one situation that i couldn't help him with. guys and their penile issues...it's not something they usually want their female relatives involved with...

good luck to you!


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## AntoninBeGonin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stacey2061* 
this is a toughie...i'm no expert but i think maybe aman should discuss this with him. men do some weird things for reasons that would dumbfound a woman. 2 years ago my little b-i-l was 11 and we were renting the basement of their family home (also shared with older b-i-l who is in his late 20s). it's a long story but we discovered that older b-i-l was urinating into pop bottles and keeping them (uncovered!) in his room when one of the cats knocked a bottle over. it was disgusting...he said it was because he didn't feel like getting up to use the washroom (which was about 15 feet away from his room)...shortly thereafter we were watching younger b-i-l overnight. late that night he got up frantically looking for a bottle to pee in, instead of going across the hall to his private washroom! i was livid, but tried to be gentle with him. he's always been really good about talking to me but this was one situation that i couldn't help him with. guys and their penile issues...it's not something they usually want their female relatives involved with...

good luck to you!

Stacey: OT but do you know if they were circumcised as infants? There are some studies which show infant circumcision can have long term effects. Here's one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract Maybe that's one of the reasons boys/men seem to have penis issues.

To the OP: I'm glad you talked with your son until you understood what was bothering him. You sound like a great mom







By the way, have you mentioned to him that he might want to drink less in the hour before bed? Maybe that would help eliminate the problem. Note that I'm not saying to withhold drinks from him, I think that's mean; instead just run the idea of him cutting back before bed.

~Nay


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## AntoninBeGonin

Also, and this is simply my opinion, I think that we should all try to practice gentle living by accepting that anyone who takes the time to post is trying their best based on their life experiences and what they know about gentle living, and that the best responses to those less than stellar remarks should encourage gentleness, understanding, and perhaps a book recommendation rather than hateful comments like "why the hell are you posting on this board and I hope you never have kids because you really suck dog farts."

Let's try to be nicer all around. (Myself included!







: )

~Nay


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## JenniferH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
I don't think a nightlight is enough for me, it has to illuminate the room well.

Until the light comes on, I'm irrational. I whine, I plead, I yell, I bang on the wall. Sometimes I even cry. I've never peed on the floor, but who knows.

So I like the nightlight idea but I like even better the idea of a lamp RIGHT BESIDE THE BED that is easy to turn on in a second. No need to get up - just right there. See if your son likes that idea. Maybe even one of those touch-lamps so he doesn't have to fumble with a switch - just reach out, and it's on.

Or, maybe a couple of lamps hooked to a clapper. You know, you clap your hands and the lights come on.

I had (and still do sometimes) very vivid nightmares when I was going through puberty. Even now when I wake up I'm scared to death and can't go back to sleep for a long time. I envy people who don't have dreams. My dreams are so vivid sometimes, I have to work really hard not remember them during the day and shudder.

Heck, I'm 30 years old and I'm not a chicken about anything (except spiders), so if it scares ME it can certainly scare a 12 year old.


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## mama2toomany

is he still asleep while he does it?

My son wakes up half way sometimes and will pee on the wall next to the toilet... on accident

he wet his pants the other day because he just didn't want to get up from playing... I had him put the pants in the washer...

He has to let me know when this happens.. but he also knows that everybody makes mistakes and no one is mad at him for it... just don't hide it in a pile in the closet so i have to discover it on my own.


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## sbm1001

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AntoninBeGonin* 
Also, and this is simply my opinion, I think that we should all try to practice gentle living by accepting that anyone who takes the time to post is trying their best based on their life experiences and what they know about gentle living, and that the best responses to those less than stellar remarks should encourage gentleness, understanding, and perhaps a book recommendation rather than hateful comments like "why the hell are you posting on this board and I hope you never have kids because you really suck dog farts."

Let's try to be nicer all around. (Myself included!







: )

~Nay

I've been incredibly busy with the holidays these past few days & haven't had a chance to respond at all. When I read this the other night I laughed so hard I think I peed myself a little.









My ds hasn't done it since. I got him one of those new light show night lights & he seems satisfied with that at night for now. I haven't gotten to the medical supply store yet to find the urinal but he seems to be getting up at night to go to the bathroom fine as long as the pathway is lit.

I used to be so afraid of the dark, too. Like I told him, sometimes people cannot understand how that affects a person because they've not experienced it. For the few of you on this thread who seem want to judge him for this act, you don't understand....apparently you can't understand. I'm so glad, for his sake, he's my child & not yours. I don't claim to always handle things the best way, but in this instance I'm pretty shocked at the few harsh suggestions & disappointed that those are coming from someone at MDC. I've left the negative, unhelpful comments where they lie because they are of no use to me.

He doesn't seem to be sleepwalking when he's doing this....I think it's a conscious choice. In his mind, the consiqences of the action are worth it if it means he doesn't have to face whatever is scaring the crap out of him in the dark. I can understand that. I don't like it but I understand. I think it's very important for him to take responsibilty for his actions, which is why he had to clean it up. It's NOT okay to pee on the carpet. I never said it was, nor do I think anyone else thinks his reason for peeing on the carpet make it okay.

I am having him re-evaluated at the nearest public school to see if some of his behaviors are more than your typical child with ADHD. He does have some Asperger's traits & I need to know how to better help him grow up to be a functioning member of society. I'll update when I know more.

Shannon


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## MidwifeErika

I am glad that so far the lights are working out, that is wonderful. I just wanted to say that I can totally feel for your DS. My husband and I moved into a house a few years back that was really, really frightening. I mean, there was some crazy, scary stuff that happened there.... enough so that we only stayed for 3 weeks (and my husband doesn't believe in the paranormal, but he was scared enough to pack his bags to live in a moving truck rather than stay there any longer). Anyhow, at 20 years old, I was so frightened in this house that I gave myself a bladder infection because I REFUSED to get out of bed at night to pee. I would lay awake all night holding it in, but just couldn't get out of the bed because I was afraid of what I would see in the next room or around the corner if I tried to walk there. and this was at 20! I can really feel with a 12 year old who is so frightened by the dark and things that he sees and hears in the dark. I am so happy for your son that he has you as his mom.... someone who is kind and gentle and understanding and patient! Keep at it, mama!


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## mamarhu

Another entry in the "everything should be this simple" catagory: After a move, ElderSon, at 7 or so, started wetting the bed. Oh, no, an emotional response to moving! He must be so upset and can't express it! I even got as far as looking into referrals for counselling. Well, it took a week or so, but we finally figured it out. We had moved from a warm, tropical climate to the mountains. He had never had his feet be cold in his life. The hardwood floors just felt too weird to him. We solved the problem - he started wearing socks to bed!

I don't mean to either make light of the OP's situation, or suggest that her situation is the same. Just thought it was a funny story, and sometimes the solution to a problem is so much simpler than it seems.


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## MarGos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bartock*
> 
> Well I use to pee on my carpet at 16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> : I was in a foster home and had major probs from my step dad, I say get him in concelling or something, there has to be some kinda underlying problem.


I have to ask, why did you use to pee on the carpet? What did that do for you? And I am asking you this very sincerely because I am having this problem with my now 13 year old son and it is not done in the middle of the night and I am so frustrated and concerned for him. Never mind how angry I am about the physical damage it is doing to our house.


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