# Babies at a wedding.. Yay or Nay?



## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

My sister in law (DH's sister) is getting married and has pretty much made it clear that my DS is not invited (He is 5 months old and will be 9 months at the time of the wedding) I think part of it is because a cute baby may take some attention away from her or she's afraid he will make noise and mess it up or because "traditionally" babies dont go to weddings or because she is not a mama herself it's hard for her to understand how hard it is for a mama (especially one who has never used a sitter) to leave your baby behind when you go to a special event. Its most likely a combo of all of these reasons.

I have said that I will sit out during the ceremony in case he makes any noise, but thats not good enough. DS really doesnt even make much noise beyond what a typical baby does. She just plain doesnt want him there. My husband basically says if DS isnt invited, we're not coming.

Needless to say this is causing major problems in our family. What are everyone's thoughts on this?


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## PadmaMorgana (Apr 14, 2004)

nak

ok...here are my 2 cents. as a bride (or bridezilla) she has every right to determine who is at her wedding. AND you have every right to decide to go or not.

I had kids at my wedding...dang cute. A baby or 2. MOST parents know their children and won't let them disrupt the ceremony and will take care of them during the reception. If you have reassured your SIL that the baby will not disrupt anything and she has decided that she still does not want him there then fine.....don't go.

I agree with you and your DH. I wouldn't go if my kids weren't invited. Well, ok, MAYBE I would leave DS at home with a sitter (unless they were at the wedding, he has only been with MIL & FIL :LOL), but DD??? No freaking way.

I don't know why it is causing problems with your family. SIL said no baby. Baby isn't invited, you and your DH are turning down the invitation as you see your child as more important than to just shove him off on some sitter. The last time I checked, it was an INVITATION not an OBLIGATION.

Tell your family to back off.....SIL made her choice, you made yours.


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Perhaps explain that those are her choices (nicely & in private so it doesn't turn into a big drama show). You can also explain that it is very tramatic for babies to be away from their normal care provider & you cannot justify harming your child for any but the most dire of emergencies. Reiterate that you will keep baby quiet/out of service, and happy/quiet during reception.

Good for your dh for standing up to his sis for his baby!!


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## Katie's Momma (Jun 11, 2004)

Funny you mention this. A good friend is getting married in October and the invitation arrived yesterday addressed to DH and I only.

I had previously talked to dear friend about this after my daughter said she was excited about her big party (DD's reference to a wedding). My friend got an odd look on her face and I knew what that meant. Katie was not invited. She said they had to cut the list off somewhere. They have 250 guests invited to a 6:30 wedding.

I asked why did it matter when there was no dinner, she wouldn't be helping herself at the bar. She said they just had to cut the line somewhere.










Yet, she has invited my dad and his friend. She hardly ever sees them.







But they would bring a gift....

No I'm not bitter. This is causing a lot of anger amongst friends and family.

I feel for you too!!


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

I wouldn't go. I know that sounds awful and I surely don't expect my whole big family to be invited to people's weddings but babies are different. You can't be seperated from them. Thank goodness when my brother got married he and his wife understood that and graciously let my youngest at the time (she was 9 months) come AND sit at the head table! Dh and I were both in the wedding. Anyway, I would try to calmly explain your situation and if that doesn't work send your Dh to the wedding but not the reception. HTH.


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

I agree with the others- she's well within her right to say no kids. You're well within your right to stay home. If she wants you there, she will allow your kids. Period.

Personally, I don't understand the thinking. When I got married, I wanted everyone there, kids included. Most weddings I've been to have kids there- it's just more fun that way, IMO.

Just last night I was at a wedding reception and there were almost as many kids as adults (ok, not quite, but there were easily 15 kids there, the oldest being 11) and it was wonderful. The kids were running around being kids, but they were having fun. It was a casual reception, so the running was no big deal. (My ds slept better than he has in a long time after all the activity, so that was a BIG plus. He slept from 10 to 8:15 and managed to stay in his own bed all night!)


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

My thinking is, the couple gets to make the invitations, and the invitees get to come or not come. Short of asking her once, I think it is rude to pressure her about letting your son come. I think it perfectly acceptable for you to graciously decline the invitation because you don't want to leave your son, but it isn't right to say "He comes or none of of us come!" That's a threat.

Anyone who had kids was welcome to bring them to my wedding - I figured I'd rather see my friends than not see them, and I knew that not inviting kids would prevent some from coming. Then again, I also see a wedding as a community celebration and not a stuffy occasion, but that is my philosophy and my choice. Other people have the right to have theirs.


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## katt (Nov 29, 2001)

I can see both sides. But, like someone said it is an invitation, not an obligation.

If the wedding as a church, technically anyone can come into the ceremony. (i've been to many catholic weddings where there were people off the street for confession but they had to wait until the ceremony was over so they sat in the back or off to the side.

Personally I see weddings as a family event and am inviting everyone in the family, no matter what age.

Maybe she is afraid of specific children acting up and instead of just singling that child out to not invite, she/they just decided to not invite children. maybe the number of children she'd 'have' to invite brings the numbers up to 300. (i'm just trying to think of reasons here)

If the reception is in a hotel could you get a room and then you and your DH take turns with the baby?

(i'd probably not go to the event if it happned to me)


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## KiwiZ (Apr 4, 2004)

My thoughts are: its her wedding so she gets to decide no kids vs kids. And if I was you I'd say "Gee, I'd really love to go, but my kid is too young to be away from me at this point. Really going to miss you".

I don't understand people not wanting kids at weddings. I've never seen a kid ruin a wedding. When they make noises during the ceremony/reception, 9 out of 10 times its super cute. The 10th time is them screaming and Mom/Dad can always discreetly take kid/baby out of the room. Kids really add to celebrations and odds are she is going to have them some day and be in your shoes and finally understand. But again, its her wedding and she gets to call the shots on her big day. Hopefully she will change her mind?


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

Yeah, I agree with everyone else.
It's perfectly ok for someone to not invite kids to a wedding, that's entirely up to them and depends on what kind of atmosphere they want, how big the guest list would grow to if they invited all the kids, really the reasons don't even matter because they are the reasons of the bride and groom, nobody elses.

It's also perfectly ok to politely decline the invitation. 'Sorry, babe is too to be left with a sitter, wish we could come, congratulations.'

I don't see how it would be causing such big problems, unless she's insisting that you both come or participate but also refusing to allow the baby. Once it's clear that baby is not invited it should be dropped.

I've also never been to a wedding where children were not invited, and usually given a table of their own for the older ones, but that's just my family, which happens to be pretty big and loaded with women so also loaded with babies.


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

I think this is a different situation than your normal wedding as it is a close family member -- she may make an exception if she understands her own brother won't be there. It also could be a good chance for her to see that children being with their parents really is important.

In the case of a friend or co-worker, I would just decline (without regret!).


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## Bethla (May 29, 2004)

The only weddings I've ever attended were out of town for family members. So there is no way I would ever go out of town to a wedding without my children. One of my cousins sent us an invitation with "no children" hand written on it. There was no possible way we could go. Who would watch our children 400 miles away from home? Her reasoning was that the caterers would charge full price for each person regardless if they were a kid or not.

I believe that if family is important to you and you are celebrating a unioun between two families, the whole family should be invited. However, if it's too elegant for kids, I believe it would be better to speak personally with the parents about your decision, instead of just writting it on the card.


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

I don't know, it doesn't seem to me that the couple should have to go out of their way to make sure everyone knows that people who didn't get a seperate invitation, and were not addressed on the parents invitation, are in fact not invited.
No invitation=not invited.
If it's close family or something I can see making a quick call to see if they can make an exception for your nursing baby or something, but if even then they say no kids allowed, that's where it should end.
In my own ever so humble opinion, anyhow.


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## wenat (Apr 17, 2004)

I've never understood the "no kids" policy at any wedding. I mean, weddings are about families, and if there were no kids, there would shortly be no more families. (Needless to say, we had lots of kids and pregnant women at my wedding. Some kids didn't come, but that was because their parents saw it as a chance to come out on a date by themselves -- and those were older kids, not babies.)

However, if you want a good giggle, check out Etiquette Hell. It's got all sorts of things that bridezillas do. After a while (and unfortunately), your SIL's request won't seem quite so odd.


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

I agree that it's the marrying couple's right to invite whom they want, and your right to decline. Would it make your family happier if your husband went alone?


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

The concept of Every member of the family not being invited to a Family event, and the start of a new Family which is what a wedding is after all, does not compute in our extended family. OTOH hand, this culture has changed marriage and especially the wedding that begins it into a ME event, all about the bride and the guy she's marrying. Misses the point of the event IMO.

Given that situation, they get to dictate whom they invite. OTOH, said invitees have the option to decline the invitation.

If the bride doesn't like that her Brother won't be there, then she can loosen up on the expectation that everything be bridal magazine perfect. OR she can choose not to and have her fantasy magazine wedding without a significant chunk of the family who love her present. Her life, her decision.

Every wedding we've been to with children has been perfect. Perhaps a slightly different perfect than the magazines depict, but perfect none the less. And the small humorous events that children lend themselves to causing at these sorts of events only add to the photo memories. Our family remembering the toddler who lofted a pacifier 3 pews back does not detract in the least from our memories of how gorgeous that sister looked or how happy she and her husband were (and still are btw). His 3 year old nephew asking if he and A were getting married (you all but see the little lightbulb over his head lighting up), as seen in the video (no one in the church pews knew at the time) is so priceless! and so sweet! I wouldn't miss moments like that for anything.


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## CherylE (Oct 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cinnamonamon*
I think this is a different situation than your normal wedding as it is a close family member -- she may make an exception if she understands her own brother won't be there. It also could be a good chance for her to see that children being with their parents really is important.

In the case of a friend or co-worker, I would just decline (without regret!).

I don't think she should "make an exception" because that's going to cause big problems for her later if she tells some people it's o.k. to bring their babies and others not. I once paid $ to have a sitter watch our baby for a wedding after even asking if I could bring her and was told no - no children - even breastfeeding babies. Then I got there and there were a whole bunch of other babies and even children there (and not well behaved ones either). Turns out my baby cried all evening for me. We aren't friends with them anymore.


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## ShannonCC (Apr 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PadmaMorgana*
ok...here are my 2 cents. as a bride (or bridezilla) she has every right to determine who is at her wedding. AND you have every right to decide to go or not.

Tell your family to back off.....SIL made her choice, you made yours.


In total agreement with all of this


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

I guess I should clarify some stuff for everyone...
The whole thing started about 3 months ago when a cousin of my husband's was getting married (in texas and we're in FL) The invitation was even made out to us and our son! My husband couldnt go because he had too much work but I considered going with DS so the family out in Texas could meet him for the first time. I told my SIL and MIL about my plans and they told me it is totally inappropriate to bring a baby to a wedding. I told them that he is invited and they basically said that she probably invited him out of courtesy but didnt expect us to bring him (how ridiculous is that) I ended up not going at all...
Fast forward to now... my husband jokingly said to my SIL while she was making wedding plans "too bad Sebastian (Ds) isnt old enough to be a ring barer, maybe he could crawl to the alter!" instead of laughing she replied "Well regardless I dont want any babies at my wedding" so my husband told her that if he isnt invited then she should forget our invitations as well. I then explained to her all the reasons why DS wont be in the way and how much we want to come but we want to bring him because he is so important to us. She wasnt hearing any of it and said that we are being selfish by insisting on bringing him. And that we "have" to come and find a sitter because we cant miss her wedding.

Also-- just to answer some questions.. we arent traveling far for the wedding(4 hours away) and we are the only people who would be invited with a baby or young children. And the wedding would be less than 100 people.

My SIL and MIL are extremely hung up on tradition!


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

I find it extremely irritating that she won't let your baby come. I seriously wouldn't go. That is just awful. It is her right as a bride to not invite kids but to exclude her own nephew is just mean.


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

well, growing up with all the catholic weddings i went to not having kids seems just weird to me, not 'traditional', just 'me me me'. (250 people is insane, imho.) otoh, i was not much of a baby person before i had kids, so i can kind of see her pov... but she needs to chill on saying 'you have to be there'. um, nope. you don't. so sorry, tough titty. maybe 'too young to leave' will register somewhere in her subconscious & pop out when she has kids. i'd politely decline, and if she doesn't let up then frostily decline.

suse


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Sounds like your dh had it right when he told her ya'll wouldn't be attending! He knows his sister, apparantly!

And honestly -- where on earth would you leave your son? An 8 hour round trip away -- plus the wedding & reception?! Come on!


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cinnamonamon*
And honestly -- where on earth would you leave your son? An 8 hour round trip away -- plus the wedding & reception?! Come on!

Im sure MIL would suggest I leave him with my cousin who I rarely talk to, is busy with her own stuff and probably wouldnt want to babysit anyways. And MIL knows all of this.


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## alliwenk (Nov 6, 2003)

I think babies are usually the point of a wedding right? (this is not to say that one must be married to have them etc., etc., etc.







) Babies at a wedding add a little extra spice to a wedding - a little unpredictability. It helps prepare one for marriage, that is to say it prepares you for not getting exactly what you expected.









Also, inviting people whom you KNOW have very young children and excluding them is tacky and controlling imo. Are you just "expected" to make costly, inconvenient arrangements?

Allison


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Hmm, I think I'd differ on this to most other posters. While I love children at weddings, (had 14 at mine!), I do think it's up to the bride to decide what style wedding she wants, and to invite who she wants.

If it were just a friend, I'd send a nice letter saying just that you cant' attend, I dont know that I'd bother to say why. Getting married is stressful enough, and I'd not want to give a bride grief befoer the event, however much I felt she was in the 'wrong'.

But this is close family. YOu need to think whether or not you want to cause this sort of strife in your family, this early in their marriage? Do you want a relationship wiht them? Are you prepared to have this hang over you in the future?

Personally, as its only 4 hrs away, I'd arrange to bring someone with me, a good friend or relative who's not going to the wedding. Have them watch ds through the service, then meet up, nurse him, play with him, (this bit is always long and boring anyway with photographers etc!). Then park the babe with friend in a hotel room, and go enjoy the party. Have a cellphone with you, so that you can go up whenever you're needed. Pop out regularly to see baby anyway.

That's what I did for a friend's wedding when dd was a baby. In fact, other people did bring their children, but the invitation did not include them, and I felt it was rude to just turn up with an uninvited child. Dd was fine, I nursed her regularly in the foyer of the hotel, and in the end, brought her in in her sling. We have some great pics of me and dh dancing with the baby smushed in the middle in the sling!

I wouldnt cause strife over something like this. Just accept that SIL is different to you and who knows, in the future when she has kids, she'll probably look back and understand your point of view. But in the meantime, let her have her big day the way she wants it. It is the couple's day, after all, isn't it?


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Your husband's family is weird. It's one thing not to want a baby at your own wedding. It's quite another thing to persuade someone that someone ELSE wouldn't want a baby at their wedding--after the baby was included by name in the invitation. That's just whacked. Just because your MIL and SIL don't like children doesn't mean that the rest of the world shares their prejudice.

At my wedding we had 29 young children below age 10. I think only three of them were actually babies. My wedding was so wonderful that at least two unmarried couples who attended started talking about marriage during the reception. Nearly four years later people still tell me how much fun they had.

Here is how I would handle it, if it was my SIL. I would send dh to the wedding and I would stay home with the baby. Why? Because it's his sister. She's a jerk, yeah, but she's his sister. Unless he thinks that maybe she created this obstacle to your attendence on purpose. With your dh, send a lovely gift from you and a heartfelt note of congratulations from just you, with an invitation to visit.

That'll settle her hash.


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## TranscendentalMom (Jun 28, 2002)

Its so hard for me to understand...at my wedding I actually encouraged guests to bring their children. To me, it adds to the fun & excitement. I remember one of my close friends brought her 6 month old and it was so exciting for old friends to see her new baby. A couple girls at the wedding were pregnant so it just made it feel really full. Last weekend my cousin had a wedding and my ds and another child were ripping up the dance floor...it was hysterical and just added to the fun. Kids ruining a wedding? Its ridiculous. I've never known someone that wouldn't take a crying child outside when a ceremony was going on.

In this situation, I think its even worse....I mean the baby we're talking about is HER NEPHEW! What a sh**ty aunt! I wouldn't go. Good for your dh saying so! And if I did go, I'd sulk in a corner. Yes, that's immature but I can't help it.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

I was told flat out that my DD, then ten months, was not to be at a wedding. It was the wedding of my DH's business partner and his second wife. We had to go - it was business. I left DD at a babysitter where she cried herself to sleep.

I regret it to this day.

The marriage lasted less than a year. My DH was screwed royally by his business partner four years later, emotionally and $ly.

Do what is in the best interests of your child. Your child matters most.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Well, for me personally, leaving a five month old with a sitter was/is out of the question. I think her attitude that "you have to come" just sucks. And while I think if you could do what Britishmum said that might work for some people, but given how horrible the SIL's attitude has been (both with the cousin who invited the child, and her insistence that they "have" to come to her wedding)....well, there is no way that person deserves even EQUAL consideration to my baby, let alone MORE. To me, protecting my child from hours of misery in the arms of an unfamiliar/unwanted sitter is far, far, FAR more important than risking the "wrath" of the in-laws. Not even comparable.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

After reading your second post, trust me, there is no way in hell, I would be going to that wedding!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
And that we "have" to come and find a sitter because we cant miss her wedding.

Also-- just to answer some questions.. we arent traveling far for the wedding(4 hours away) and we are the only people who would be invited with a baby or young children. And the wedding would be less than 100 people.

My SIL and MIL are extremely hung up on tradition!

4 hours is really far to leave your baby in my eyes.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Four hours is a long time to be away from your baby.

You have several options.

1. Just send your husband.

2. Take a baby sitter.

3. Nobody go.

4. Offer to go to the reception with the baby, but it is late and does not gaurentee a good baby.

She has every right to not invite your child but you have every right to decline. When you recieve the invatation say no more than Sorry we cannot make it. They do not need to know your plans. Apologize politely and say you have other commitments.

YOu might get a chuckle out of this site http://www.superweddings.com/etiquette.html See how many etiquettes they break.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Piglet, I didnt say for one moment I'd leave my babe with an unfamiliar sitter. I said if I were the OP, I'd take a friend or relative. When I did this, I left my baby with a very close friend, and trusted her totally to call me when I was needed. I could do the same with any of my siblings or my parents, and I'd know my baby would be fine.

I was also under the impression that the wedding isnt for a while and that the baby will be 9 months? Dd was about that age when I did this for a friend's wedding.

I guess it just depends how much you want to keep the family peace, and if you have someone you trust. I very rarely leave my children with a sitter except my immediate family, in fact, I could count the times on one hand and dd is almost four, but I did make an exception for a good friend's wedding. Although I loved having children at my own wedding, I dont think it's up to me to judge other people for making different choices for their own special day. And personally, if I wanted a decent relatoinship with SIL in future, I wouldnt upset her over her wedding. Things like that can last a lifetime. I'd just try to find a way around it, even if it meant that I only went to the ceremony, then later had dinner, then retired to bed with the baby. But I seem to be out on my own here.


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

If this were friends, co-workers or even cousins, we'd skip it.

However, this is your DH's sister. You think your child should be allowed to attend. She wants no children. It's her wedding. I think her wishes trump yours, in this case. You may not agree with her "no children" policy, but I think it's not asking a lot for you to respect it. (By the way, I've never understood the idea that there is one right answer to this question. I had kids at my wedding but why should I get to dictate what others do at their weddings regarding children?)

If you can afford it, I second the idea of bringing a friend or a relative from your side of the family to a hotel near by the church/reception. Then you could all spend the night and drive home refreshed the next morning. That way you can nurse before and after both the ceremony and the reception. I've seen a lot of people do that over the years and it's seemed to work out well.

But if you don't want to do that, I would send my DH and stay home with my child. It is your DH's sister. Your DH can be away from you and the baby for one day, yes? Your DH not going to the wedding will cause a wound that may take years to heal. Is that what your DH wants in his relationship with his sister? Can't he be the bigger person for one day?


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## Graceoc (Mar 26, 2002)

Well I will admit that when I got married it was a 'no child' affair







: And it wasn't because I didn't like children or wasn't familiar with how 'cute' they are. It was simply because it was a formal event that was conducive to 'adults only'. Had someone approaced me about a baby coming I would have most likely said yes - because I do understand that babie need to be by their mothers are usually no problem....but past that I would have said no.

I think that she is in her rights to ask him not to come - and I also think it is fine to then decline the invitation - no hard feelings. But her attitude - telling you what you 'have to do' is definatly being unreasonable!

When we had our wedding I offered to have a professional nanny watch any toddlers/older kids at the hotel, rent movies and order in pizza for them. No one took me up on the offer (which I can now understand since it would be a stranger)

You and DH could go and just take turns staying with DS in the hotel room. I know many people who have done that. And once the baby goes to sleep (since it is a nighttime wedding) usually a grandma or older aunt is more then happy to sit up with them (at least in our family







)

So although I can see how she has the 'right' to not ask - her attitiute is terrible....but seeing that she is family I would probably make some type of compromise to attend. But that is just me.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

I asked DH about this and he says that he wouldnt feel much like celebrating if he cant do it with the people he loves most. Asking him to leave any of us out is an unreasonable request, in his opinion. Especially since at our wedding SIL made a special request for us to invite her best friend and her best friends boyfriend so she would know more people at the wedding. We did this without an argument even though we never met the couple and it costed us extra money. I really dont think this argument is going to effect their marriage. They have been together for 8 years already.


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## PadmaMorgana (Apr 14, 2004)

mak









you know i had a big post and erased it because it doesn't matter. you don't want to leave you baby with a sitter for that long, dh doesn't want to go without you, and sil won't bend. sounds like you all don't go.

your mil & sil sound a bit self centred. not just about this wedding....but getting you to invite friends of sil so she will have company was just strange.

stick up for the welfare of your child...who else is going to do it?


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## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum*
But in the meantime, let her have her big day the way she wants it. It is the couple's day, after all, isn't it?









Not in my book. Last I checked, an invitation had the option to attend or not. RSVP is the polite way to decline - I'd say use it in this circumstance.

A wedding day doesn't entitle a couple to dictate everything. I don't believe it is their 'day' anymore than that day belongs to any person or couple. They are getting married with the bells and whistles. So go do it - but don't expect the world to revolve around their values. The bride is saying this couple 'have to come' and they must leave their chid with a babysitter.

Sorry, last I checked in any Bride's Guide or Wedding Etiquette book, being a bride doesn't mean you get to dictate what other families have to do.

She needs to get busy with committing her life to her fiance. Lesson #1 of a good marriage is most of the time in life, it isn't AAM (All About Me).


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## alie (Jan 1, 2003)

Having been in a similar situation, it sounds like sil is trying to control you. WHich she can do, as it is her wedding. However, your husband sounds like he is awesome, and I think, right. You sound like you are trying to be nice and understanding towards the mil and sil. WHy should your dh have to be the "big person" in this scenario? If your sil really loves her brother, and truly wants your family at the wedding, she will accept all of you there. Obviously she doesnt understand the bond of family, the new family you have created with your husband which overrides any other family ties. First comes you, and the babe, central to your husband. Then everyone else. So if sil & mil create an ultimatum like this, they will "lose" . Perhaps this is something that needs to be done to alter the dynamic. Or perhaps not. It may cause pain in the short run, but a deeper understanding and respect years down the road. Good luck, anyway. What I really feel about it, is, why cant she just take a chill pill?


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## Fleurette (Feb 28, 2003)

This happened to us when dd was about 2 months old. We were invited to dh's cousin's wedding. The invite was addressed only to us. I wasn't sure if she'd heard that we'd had a baby, so I had dh track her mom down (his cousin...it was her daughter getting married). He told her that we had just had a baby and we didn't want to arrive with a baby unless it was ok with the bride. The bride said "No babies/kids" and I was ok with that. Dh just went alone. Turns out there were kids at the wedding after all and I was ticked because it really would have been nice to go.

In the end, it's her wedding. If she wants no kids, so be it, but like others have said, you have the option not to go or send dh alone. If she wants to limit the wedding to certain people, that's fine, but she shouldn't expect any of you to attend.

By the way, I LOVE weddings with babies and kids. We had lots of kids at ours and for our first dance, the moms got their kids to make a circle around us and walk around us as we danced. It was so perfect and unscripted. It's one of my fondest memories.


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## Ms. Frizzle (Jan 9, 2004)

Quote:

ok...here are my 2 cents. as a bride (or bridezilla) she has every right to determine who is at her wedding. AND you have every right to decide to go or not.
I agree!!

Also, if I was the bride I would allow babies and children of ALL ages at my wedding. I love children, and I think kids make things funner.
I have only been to one 'adult' only wedding, and it was the most long, boring uptight wedding I have ever been to.

Also, I would NOT go if my kids were not invited.


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## kate42 (Feb 2, 2003)

I wouldn't go.

Since DD was born, we've been invited to two wedding...all three of us. One couple even sent a separate invitation for DD.







They knew how we feel about leaving DD with a babysitter (she's almost a year old and we haven't had a sitter yet).

Make like Nancy Reagan and Just Say No. You are well within your rights to decline the invitation if you want to. If she gets mad at you, oh well.


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## mealymama (Jun 8, 2004)

What is a wedding about, anyway?
It's not like people _have_ to get married, anymore, and many of those who do aren't religious these days. A wedding is a celebration of your love in front of the people who mean the most to you. It's about family: the one you grew up in, and the one you're creating.
So when I found out that my sister wasn't allowing children at her wedding, I was appalled. Completely floored. I didn't think this kind of WASPy nonsense went on in normal families.
My daughter is the first grandchild, great-grandchild, niece or nephew, son or daughter in her generation. In our family, she's the one who's taking our memories into the future. To me, she was what the whole thing was about!
Eating, drinking, singing, dancing, and BABIES!
Anyway, I was a bridesmaid, and my parents (who agreed with me) were paying for the wedding, so I had a little clout. If I wanted to push the issue I could have, but I didn't.
She eventually changed her mind (yay!) and Olivia behaved like an angel (of course!







).
But if I was in your situation I wouldn't go. You and your husband made it clear a while ago that it would be a hardship and given the distance and the sitter situation, I think they're being too rigid.


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
I asked DH about this and he says that he wouldnt feel much like celebrating if he cant do it with the people he loves most.

If he doesn't feel an obligation to be present for his sister, that's great. I, personally, would be pretty peeved if my brother (even though we're not close) didn't come to my wedding, and if your sister and the rest of the family would be too, you may want to consider encouraging him to go to help keep the peace.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

At nine months, I think I'd go without the baby to part of it at least. But I guess that depends on the baby's and mom's temperment, and what I'd do isn't necessarily what is right to do. If you don't want to go without the baby, then don't. Write the couple a really sweet note of congrats and regrets for your absense. Also consider encoruaging DH to go for a little bit of it; but really that is his decision and he should be in charge of telling his sister he that he isn't coming.

But do not expect or desire (except in an abstract way) that the couple change thier vision of thier wedding. Weddings are what the married couple wants them to be, and they are differnt things for each couple. I didn't want anyone at mine. Dh's family were not too happy about that, but it was our wedding and we wanted a really small, unstressfull ceremony in a special place (it was a destination wedding), and we got what we wanted. For some weddings are communal celebrations, for some the most elegant and sophisticated affair they can imagine, for some a very private commitment between two souls.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

britishmum, I think I must have been unclear. I have no problem with how you arranged it. And I did understand that the sitter you had was not a stranger. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I'm referring to people like us who have nobody who could fulfill that role. I was never, ever comfortable leaving my DD with anybody except DH (and only for about 3 hours at the most) until she was almost a year old. That's just a personal value we have in our family, and so I was arguing on behalf of those who feel the same way. The solution to have a friend/sitter/relative come along and look after baby close by while you join the wedding ONLY works if you are comfortable with that. Many mamas here are not, and I get the feeling that the OP and her DH are not, either.

I totally respect that AND your DH for sticking up for what is important to him.

Frankly, I'm pretty shocked at people who are suggesting that something so important to you as a family (ie. not leaving your young baby) should be just "put aside" for the sake of a SIL who obviously has no respect for your feelings and is being completely selfish. How dare she set limits and then demand that you come?

I'm sorry, but my parenting philosophies will never, ever fall second place to stupid family politics. I'd rather risk the "wrath" of the SIL moping over her wedding for years to come than compromise what's important to me. And besides, every time she harps on about it, you can explain "well, if we'd been allowed to bring baby, we could have come"....

You are respecting her wishes by not showing up with a baby, why can't she respect yours to not go? Why should you give her something she is unwilling to give you (ie. respect for each others' POV)?


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

It is the bride's day and she DOES get to choose how she wants things ..
I never took my kids even when they were invited to weddings ( long story I won't get into here) but I have only been to one since I had all four ..

However this is over the top
"we "have" to come and find a sitter because we cant miss her wedding" UMM NO No one HAS to come to her wedding. That is why there are things on the RSVP's to decline attending.
If she is trying to control the OP's family choices that is wrong IMO and I say kudos to the ops dh for refusing to be manipulated by his sister.
It isn't his sister he pledged "til death do us part " and that he has to live with.
If they are toxic then maybe this is a good time to excise necrotic tissue...


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## Stevie (Jun 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CerridwenLorelei*
It is the bride's day and she DOES get to choose how she wants things ..
I never took my kids even when they were invited to weddings ( long story I won't get into here) but I have only been to one since I had all four ..

However this is over the top
"we "have" to come and find a sitter because we cant miss her wedding" UMM NO No one HAS to come to her wedding. That is why there are things on the RSVP's to decline attending.
If she is trying to control the OP's family choices that is wrong IMO and I say kudos to the ops dh for refusing to be manipulated by his sister.
It isn't his sister he pledged "til death do us part " and that he has to live with.
If they are toxic then maybe this is a good time to excise necrotic tissue...


well said


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## TranscendentalMom (Jun 28, 2002)

I think you are in a good position since your dh is saying he doesn't want to go. I would support whatever he wants to do and look like the good guy. If they ask you can just say your dh refuses to go....they'll forgive him because he's their son/brother...but if the "no" comes from YOU you will be the evil SIL would hoardes their beloved brother/son. I would just stay out of it and do whatever dh decides. Its his family anyway...


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

What CerridwenLorelei said.

The people throwing and planning the party get to decide who is on the guest list. The guests do not get to decide who is on the guest list. I can totally understand why people would not want to have kids at weddings, and if the hosts don't want children to be there, they shouldn't be there. Period.

However, wedding invitations do not need to be confused with a command performance. The guests get to decide whether or not they will attend a function. The hosts do not. I can also totally understand why people wouldn't want to leave their children in order to attend an event, and if they don't want to do it, they should simply be able to politely decline the invitation. Period.

If it were us, dh would go to the wedding alone and make a brief appearance at the reception.


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## bethwl (May 10, 2003)

I guess I am the dissenting opinion here in that I don't think it's unreasonable to decide to not have children at a wedding (I can go either way on this one) and I can see why it would cause family strife to not attend your own sister's wedding. Since it is your dh's sister and important that you attend, I think she should be proactive and help set up a babysitter for you (find someone she knows in town who will be be attending a wedding or a babysitting service)--as opposed to an acquaintance inviting you and not your child; in that case, I don't think they need to go that extra mile to help with the child care because you can just decline if it's too much hassle. Anyway, I don't think she's being unreasonable and I guess I do think it's unreasonable for you to say you don't want to go because you would have to find a sitter for your baby. I know many people here don't leave their children with sitters for a good long while, but I have never felt that way. I have no qualms about leaving my child with a trustworthy person for a few hours (and we have done so since about 10 weeks, when my husband and I went to the first opera of our season tickets).

--Beth
dd Annika 8.9.03


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## mirlee (Jul 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*

My SIL and MIL are extremely hung up on tradition!


I admit, I haven't read the whole thread, but I just had to write when I read this.

IF she really wanted a TRADITIONAL wedding, then children would be there. If you look back on weddings not just in this country but elsewhere in the world, when a couple comes together in marriage, the whole family comes together. Sometimes the whold town or village came together to celebrate the couple.

If the wedding is local and we think maybe a grown up night could be fun, then we might come alone. But, if the wedding is out of town, then ersonally, there are currently three of us and someday we hope there will be four. We will be coming as a family. If the whole family isn't invited, then we will respectfully decline. I understand the bride's desire to have the wedding she always wanted it and would want to spoil her day. Someday, when she has children, she will be invited to a wedding with a no children please request and then she might understand. Maybe.


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## obnurse (May 18, 2004)

I guess I am the ugly duckling here too, but I didn't want children at my wedding either. DH and I both have many children on both sides of the family, and they are not well watched at a function. Cost was also an issure as we paid for our own wedding. We had the big posh affair that was very fancy, I just didn't want the whole kids running around routine! (I know this was before I had kids) Still I do believe that is her right to decide who she wants there, and you have the right to decide not to go.
However, this IS your DH's sister, and I think you should make every effort to accomodate her. 4 hours away is pretty far IMO. Is there ANYONE in your family that could come with you and sit for your baby??? YOu could leave and nurse the baby as needed. I know that this is a big inconvenience, but this way, at lease everyone is partly happy.
As someone who has been the bride asking for this situation, please don't take this personally. They may feel that if you baby is there, there will be other people upset because their child was not invited.


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## taz925 (Nov 29, 2001)

I would not go. She made her choice knowing full well how her brother felt about it.

Good Luck,
Doreen


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *obnurse*
They may feel that if you baby is there, there will be other people upset because their child was not invited.

I believe she stated that she was the only one invited with a child/young child, so that wouldn't be an issue.

And I have to go with Piglet on this one -- I don't have anyone who my ds would have been comfortable with when he was that young -- I never left him with ANYONE for more than 1/2 hour until he was 11 months old. That was with my MIL after she had been with my ds & myself for 4 days straight & he was happy with her. Since then I have left him for at most 1-3 hours with someone he had seen daily for at least 4 days & was happy with -- that has happened maybe 5 times as they all live in Michigan.

Some people just really don't have anyone to leave their children with -- and no matter how well my SIL knew a person, my ds wouldn't know him/her. The sitter could be the nicest person in the world & he would be miserable if he was left in that situation.

I know I've already said it, but I think the OP's dh knows his sister pretty well, and he would probably be more than willing to work out a compromise if he thought she would be reasonable. The fact is, she is demanding that he harm his child because she wants *her* way. I wouldn't be very compromising in such a situation either.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

I think my SIL is extremely selfish and is all about me me me. I see no reason to accomodate her. Here are some other unreasonable requests she has made/demanded
When I was 9 months pregnant and on bedrest with pre-eclampsya she was graduating from her MBA program. My husband wanted to stay by my side since I was so miserable and helpless and he had attended her ungrad graduation the year before he figured it would be ok not to go to her 2nd graduation. SIL *DEMANDED* that he go knowing full well what the circumstances were. She called every 5 minutes crying and saying how this is so important to her and he is being a jerk for missing it. He finally gave in and went and I had an extremely hellish day.
Next story...
During an obgyn visit my doctor said I should be induced because of my pre-eclampsya, and a few other things (drop in heart rate, etc)... He told me to think about it and call him back and let him know if I wanted to be induced and if so what day that week..Later that day MIL and SIL were visiting and we told them the story. I am not kidding you here, but SIL said "Umm do you think you could do it next week because my boyfriend and I are going to the beach every day this week since it's so nice out" I am telling you she was not joking one bit! When my husband said that her request was ridiculous she sat there and pouted.

About getting a sitter or family member. There are no family members who could help and I just dont feel like I could leave my boy with a sitter. I am sorry but I just cant.


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## Graceoc (Mar 26, 2002)

She does sound unreasonable! But what about my idea that you all go and you and DH take turns with DS in the hotel room.....you could both get some time at the wedding and not have to worry about DS at all.


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Graceoc*
She does sound unreasonable! But what about my idea that you all go and you and DH take turns with DS in the hotel room.....you could both get some time at the wedding and not have to worry about DS at all.










Here's my thing with that -- I really don't think she deserves to have them work so hard when she is being so unreasonable/rude. From what the OP has said, this woman is a "taker," and that sort of person is NEVER satisfied -- she would complain that her brother only stayed for xx minutes/hours, etc. just as much as she will probably complain that they didn't show up at all. If she relents and lets baby attend, she will most likely complain that they were rude and insisted to bring the baby...

Short of kissing her feet & leaving their child with a stranger, there is no way to make a person like this happy.

I hope I'm not projecting too much from a situation I've been in with people similar to this SIL...


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## Graceoc (Mar 26, 2002)

Well I agree that the SIL is being a big PITA - but I guess my thought do this to save the future...KWIM? I mean I can only imagin the SIL and MIL would *NEVER* let this go - and I am just the type of person who would do what I could to avoid a lifelong thing like that


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bethwl*
I guess I am the dissenting opinion here in that I don't think it's unreasonable to decide to not have children at a wedding (I can go either way on this one) and I can see why it would cause family strife to not attend your own sister's wedding. Since it is your dh's sister and important that you attend, I think she should be proactive and help set up a babysitter for you (find someone she knows in town who will be be attending a wedding or a babysitting service)--as opposed to an acquaintance inviting you and not your child; in that case, I don't think they need to go that extra mile to help with the child care because you can just decline if it's too much hassle. Anyway, I don't think she's being unreasonable and I guess I do think it's unreasonable for you to say you don't want to go because you would have to find a sitter for your baby. I know many people here don't leave their children with sitters for a good long while, but I have never felt that way. I have no qualms about leaving my child with a trustworthy person for a few hours (and we have done so since about 10 weeks, when my husband and I went to the first opera of our season tickets).

--Beth
dd Annika 8.9.03

It's not finding a sitter that's the problem, it's that she DOESN'T leave her baby with sitters. AND this SIL is saying that they HAVE to go to this wedding. It's fine that children aren't allowed, but it's not fine that this woman is insisting they leave their kid with a sitter. It should be ok with her that they choose not to come because they don't leave their baby with people.

-Heather


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
I just dont feel like I could leave my boy with a sitter. I am sorry but I just cant.

_YOU DON'T NEED TO APOLOGIZE FOR THAT!_









Quote:

Anyway, I don't think she's being unreasonable and I guess I do think it's unreasonable for you to say you don't want to go because you would have to find a sitter for your baby. I know many people here don't leave their children with sitters for a good long while, but I have never felt that way.
Just because you have no problem with sitters, doesn't make it unreasonable for someone to suggest this to a mama who DOES have a problem with it. Glad it worked out for you, but for many of us this is not an option and it would be nice if that could be respected.

Quote:

but I guess my thought do this to save the future...KWIM? I mean I can only imagin the SIL and MIL would *NEVER* let this go - and I am just the type of person who would do what I could to avoid a lifelong thing like that...

So how far would you go in compromising your principles and values for the sake of "keeping the peace"? Would you give your exclusively-breastfed baby a bottle of formula if it meant "keeping the peace"? Would you feed your 3 month old cereal if it meant "keeping the peace"? I sure wouldn't. And I sure wouldn't ever leave my baby with some unknown quantity (unknown to the child as well) just to "keep the peace", b/c that is a very important part of my parenting and not something "negotiable" for a family wedding with a bunch of selfish adults who cannot respect the OP's parenting principles.

SIL is an adult and can either get over it or mope for the rest of her life. Why should any mother compromise her principles and her baby's well-being in order to appease a grown-up who is acting like a big baby herself?

If I sound angry, it's because I'm getting the feeling here that some think leaving baby with a sitter is "negotiable" under the right circumstances. Well, if it is for you that is fine, but for many of us it is an important part of our parenting beliefs and philosophy not to do so, and I feel like suggesting that this is "negotiable" is really dismissive and disrespectful to those of us who feel that way. Babies should always come first, especially before something as trivial as a wedding ceremony (which, in the grand scheme of things, it really is).


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

To the OP - have you reminded this selfish woman how you accomodated her own *much more unreasonable request/demand* for YOUR wedding? The old eye for an eye....


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## ebensmama (Jun 8, 2004)

I haven't read ALL the responses, but the whole "no kids at our wedding" thing really bothers me. I guess it's not wrong of the bride to have those feelings, but as a mom AND someone who has always valued children as integral parts of the family, I think kids (babies, toddlers, and right on up) absolutely should be included at weddings. My philosophy at our wedding (which happened before I became a mom) was that it would feel empty without the children in our family there. Again, although the bride does have every right to set her own rules for attendance, I'm having trouble viewing this from an unbiased perspective and agreeing with her.

I guess if I were in the same situation and tried to no avail to negotiate a way for my child to be able to attend, I would probably not go at all. I feel the same way you do about sitters. The only people I do trust DS with are my mom and grandma, and in a case like yours, they would not be available. NO WAY in heck would I leave my kid with a hired babysitter.

BTW, I think it's wonderful of your DH to be defending your baby.


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## Graceoc (Mar 26, 2002)

Quote:

So how far would you go in compromising your principles and values for the sake of "keeping the peace"? Would you give your exclusively-breastfed baby a bottle of formula if it meant "keeping the peace"? Would you feed your 3 month old cereal if it meant "keeping the peace"? I sure wouldn't. And I sure wouldn't ever leave my baby with some unknown quantity (unknown to the child as well) just to "keep the peace", b/c that is a very important part of my parenting and not something "negotiable" for a family wedding with a bunch of selfish adults who cannot respect the OP's parenting principles.
Piglet - since you quoted me I just felt the need to reply. I was the one who said they would do 'it' to keep the peace - and my suggestion was not to compromise their principles and values. I think you are jumping on my statement for no reason. I was the one who suggested they both attend the wedding and just take turns watching DS in the hotel room. This way the 'family' can be happy they attended and they do NOT leave DS with a sitter. I don't think that is a big deal, and like I said if MIL and SIL are the type to keep a grudge like it sounds they are, *I* (not necessarly anyone else or the OP) would rather do that then live with their b**ching the rest of my life.


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## polka hop (Dec 23, 2003)

*


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## diamond lil (Oct 6, 2003)

It would be rude to ask the couple to include your child. They specified no kids, so that means no kids.

If they are paying for their wedding (as most couples do these days) it is likely that the caterer will charge them full price for kids' meals. That means a kid will take two bites of a $40.00 meal and the food will go to waste. The kids' parents won't care because they aren't paying for it.

This happened to my sister (who is a child psychologist) who had a rather lavish and expensive wedding. She specified 'no kids' on her invitations, only to have a few parents ignore the request.

Two free-range children nearly ruined her wedding ceremony. Her brothers-in-law had to coral the children into a seperate room in the church to keep them from drowning out the pastor's voice as he performed the ceremony. The parents of the kids thought the whole thing was 'cute.' Nobody else thought it was cute.

The story doesn't end there. At the reception, the parents started making specific food demands for their (uninvited) children. My sister ordered the waitstaff to direct them to the nearest McDonalds!!! I was so proud of her!

She now has kids of her own and would never think of inflicting the same hell on my wedding or anyone elses.


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## zaftigmama (Feb 13, 2004)

I would have to agree with the majority of women here and say not to go. Your SIL sounds like a completely selfish bitch - from asking you to invite strangers to your wedding, to asking to delay your child's birth so she could go to the beach, to saying you and your DH 'have' to come to the wedding. Why go out of your way to someone who obviously have no respect for you??

I don't leave my kids with sitters. They are 3 and 14 months. I have left them with my sister and my parents, that's it. I won't leave them with my in-laws, and I certainly won't leave them with strangers. Not everyone feels the same way, you don't have to apologize about it.

She's trying to control you, I'd stop her in her tracks now. I'd politely decline the invitation, send a small gift wishing her and her fiance well, and wait for the hell to break loose. And I would not, under any circumstances, explain yourself or defend yourself in any great detail. It's impossible to explain attachment parenting to people who don't care. I'd simply say, to either MIL or SIL, "We're not comfortable leaving our child. We're so sorry to miss the wedding and can't wait to see the video." If they say you have to come, blah, blah, blah, just say, kindly, "I'm afraid that will be impossible." Honestly, what kind of relationship are you going to have with these people in the future?? Don't bend for them, or compromise your principles for people you're not going to be close to anyway.

Just because she's your husbands sister does not mean you'll be close. It's great when our family members are people we would choose to be with, but sometimes our family members are our worst enemy. Having a relationship genetically doesn't guarantee closeness, shared ideals, or understanding. It's too bad, but it's the way it is. You need to surriound yourself with people who have similar values and who care about you, not just themselves. These are the people you will go out of your way for, because they will do it for you.

Good luck, I'm sorry you're going to have such strife in the family. At 9 months my daughter was still nursing around the clock, and although she ate cheerios, etc.,. would not take a bottle or a cup. I wouldn't have left her to go to a bookstore, never mind 4 hours away.

Take care!!!


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## Orange (May 14, 2004)

Your SIL sounds like a spoiled brat. I wouldn't go. Kudos to your DH for standing up for your familial beliefs.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

graceoc: I should have emphasized that I was using "you" in the general term...I chose to quote you b/c you sort of summed up what I felt others were trying to say, and I just wanted to emphasize the point that all of here have somewhat different principles when it comes to parenting, and that no matter what they are, they should be respected. Sorry if it seemed like I was pointing a finger at you!

And while I think kids are nice to have at weddings, just wanted to say that I have no problem with people not inviting kids to weddings. It's their day, they should have it the way they want it. But it sure isn't fair to freak out on someone who declines the invite b/c they have young babies at home...when someone decides to have a "no kids" wedding, presumably they understand that this will leave out some family members, and they should be okay with that.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

But it sure isn't fair to freak out on someone who declines the invite b/c they have young babies at home...when someone decides to have a "no kids" wedding, presumably they understand that this will leave out some family members, and they should be okay with that."






























And I agree with someone above -I mean asking her to put off her labor because she and bf are going to the beach ?? wth is that? and ita with the person who said genetic ties don't mean a closeness and some relatives are he**. That is why the toxic series sells so well ....









And a lot of us here DID ( hello did you read it ALL or skim?) that the bride has the right to have her wedding as she wishes it to be it is her day but the demands she is making on her brother are waay out of line.


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## pageta (Nov 17, 2003)

All I have to say is this is why we eloped. If I had it to do over, I'd do it again. Weddings are just a big headache that make everyone mad.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pageta*
All I have to say is this is why we eloped. If I had it to do over, I'd do it again. Weddings are just a big headache that make everyone mad.

Except our elopment made dh's mom and siblings, who wanted a wedding, mad. . .

Ain't no winning.


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## fiddledebi (Nov 20, 2003)

...and it's awful.

My brother was engaged when I got pregnant, and when we called to give him and his fiance our good news, they were pleased for about two days, until they called and asked us if we'd like them to arrange for a sitter for that weekend (the wedding was a 7 hour drive from us). I was 5 months pregnant. I said I didn't think I'd need a sitter; the baby would be at most 3 weeks old and I would likely just carry him/her the whole time, being sure to stand near the back during the ceremony so that the tiniest peep could be quickly ushered out of the sanctuary. I even offered to have my MIL, who was invited to the wedding, stay completely outside the synagogue with the baby during the ceremony, so that even the initial newborn squirmy hamster sounds wouldn't be heard.

That wasn't enough for them. They wanted no baby at the ceremony, the reception, the prenuptial dinner, and the pre-wedding photo session. The baby could not even be in the lobby of any of those places because, in the words of the bride to be, "I am not going to compete with a baby!"

We were devastated, but weak. We found a postpartum doula in the town where the wedding would take place and planned for me to run back and forth between the hotel room (where doula and baby would stay) and the wedding all night, even rented an additional room in the hotel where the prenuptial dinner would be so that our baby could be close by. My brother and SIL-to-be issued blow after blow, even kicking me out of the wedding party because I insisted that I would not wait 2 hours between visits to my child just because SIL2B heard that's how often babies nurse, and more frequent exits from the head table would be "distracting." The baby was "allowed" in public only the morning after their wedding, at brunch. The months approaching the wedding were a terrible time for my family. My parents were furious with my brother but felt they couldn't say anything. DH and I were terribly sad, and worried about being brand new parents under such circumstances. The phone calls from my brother and SIL2B got uglier every week. My blood pressure climbed dangerously high as a result of all the stress, and I honestly believe my labor and delivery were compromised in part by the terrible family politics.

As you can imagine, the wedding weekend was brutal. The long drive with a newborn, the constant nursing, the running back and forth, the feeling secretive, etc., was compounded by my brother and SIL doing nothing to help make it easier. While I was nursing the baby, my place at the table for the reception was given to SIL's grandfather's nurse, and I had to sit on a stool to eat my dinner. During the reception, SIL's grandmother asked me where my baby was, and when I told her the baby was upstairs in the room with a sitter, she said she couldn't believe I would leave such a new baby with someone else. Obviously, she didn't know her granddaughter very well. It was a nightmare.

13 months later, my brother and SIL were divorced. My brother called me, crying, regretting how horribly we were treated.

So, looking back, we made a mistake. Even if their marriage had lasted, we made a mistake. We should not have gone. We should have put our daughter first. We regret having gone to this wedding and having begun our daughter's life in such a negatively charged environment. I would recommend that you do not attend this wedding, either of you. I think you will regret the hassle involved, resent those who imposed it on you, and feel guilty for having participated. That's how we felt.

Given the chance to do it again, we would NOT attend. I would have gone back to that first day when they told me the baby was not invited, and I would have said, "ok, I understand. Thanks for being up front." Then I would have politely bowed out of the wedding party and told them we didn't feel comfortable making the trip that soon after our child's birth if we were going to be separated from the baby for so much of the weekend. No judgements, no arguing, just simple and firm. I would have sent not just a wedding gift, but a beautiful bouquet of flowers and wine to their room on their wedding night, since I'd be spared the cost of travel and hotel room by not going. Attached would have been a card that congratulated them, expressed regret at not being there to share it with them, and inviting them to visit as soon as they could. I'd have signed it from all three of us, and left it at that.

It would have caused some bad blood, but there ended up being bad blood anyway, and at least this way, I'd still have my dignity. I'm ashamed at the way I behaved as a new mother. I wouldn't do it again.

Just my two cents. Good luck to you, whatever you decide.


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
I asked DH about this and he says that he wouldnt feel much like celebrating if he cant do it with the people he loves most...

I'm sorry to hear that his family of origin are not among the people he loves most. I was under the mistaken assumption that he wanted to maintain a relationship with his sister. This is her and her finances special day. If he sees nothing to celebrate about that, then why even have the discussion or start this thread?

Personally, I have attended family events (funerals, weddings, etc.) by myself and so has my husband while the other one stays home to care for our child. Not every event is appropriate for a child. In our marriage, we'd rather send one representative, to honor our families of origin, rather than spend an extra day together. With the exception of military deployments, we've been together nearly everyday of our marriage. The days we were apart to meet extended family obligations were well worth it, in my opinion. I don't want my son to grow up thinking family is only the three of us or that family obligations are only things you meet if it's easy or exactly the way you want it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*
...Frankly, I'm pretty shocked at people who are suggesting that something so important to you as a family (ie. not leaving your young baby) should be just "put aside" for the sake of a SIL who obviously has no respect for your feelings and is being completely selfish. How dare she set limits and then demand that you come? ...

Frankly, I'm pretty shocked that you, of all people, are so hellbent on misrepresenting what other's have said. Usually you are a lot more fair than that.

People have suggested bringing a friend or relative along that the baby would be comfortable with, the husband attending alone or the op and her husband switching off childcare during the wedding. So, you jump from that to giving an exclusively-breastfed baby a bottle of formula or feeding a 3 month old cereal??? I wonder what you hope to accomplish by suggesting that the thoughtful ideas others have suggested here are anaologous to such inflamatory ideas?

There are ways for the OPs family to be represented at this wedding that will in no way compromise how they care for their child (Unless the father is the one breastfeeding.) I'm trying to understand how one day apart is worse than the lifetime of bad feelings they will be creating by the OP's husband missing _his sister's_ (not a friend, co-worker, cousin or even SIL) wedding.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

over their wedding and their birth???


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pugmadmama*
I'm sorry to hear that his family of origin are not among the people he loves most. I was under the mistaken assumption that he wanted to maintain a relationship with his sister. This is her and her finances special day. If he sees nothing to celebrate about that, then why even have the discussion or start this thread?


My husband doesnt really feel close to his mother and sister. He basically just visits them out of a sense of obligation and because they are really good at trying to make him feel guilty. (his father died when he was 15 and they have always told him that he is the new man of the family and can never leave them).

I agree with the people who said that just because you are related to someone doesnt mean you have to be feel close to them. My inlaws are definitely what you would call toxic, maybe even abusive.

I should also add that the whole hotel room husband/wife swap thing wouldnt really work. The wedding is going to be a place that is far from everything and we cannot afford a hotel room anyway. We can barely afford the gas to drive down there. We were planning on staying at MIL's house if we go at all.

I guess I should just ask her what would be worse-if we come and bring the baby or dont go at all, because those are her options. Gosh Im bringing a sweet little baby, not Charles Manson!

I started this thread because I wanted to know what other people's opinions are on babies at weddings, which is why the title is "Babies at Weddings, yay or nay?" I just wanted to see if I'm alone in the way I feel.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*

I started this thread because I wanted to know what other people's opinions are on babies at weddings, which is why the title is "Babies at Weddings, yay or nay?" I just wanted to see if I'm alone in the way I feel.

Well, honestly, I am happy there were no want babies or kids at my wedding. I had three people there, and one of them is a mom with a sweet, precoious, three year old who I love to death but who needs a lot of attention and needs this attention constantly. Of course I encouraged her to bring him (and it would have been great to have him with us the rest of the trip), but when she decided to leave him with her mother, I was a little relieved. I wanted a very quiet, private elopment ceremony. It wasn't a family or communal celebration - it was me and dh making a private commitment in front of one of our best friends and my brother. It was an emotionally intense ceremony in a privaet hotel room, and I can't imagine that that note of sweet intensity would have been sustained if we had a charming little boy's constant refrain of "hey mom, hey mom, hey mom, i'm supper kitty; hey mom hey mom, hey mom, when are we going" running in the back/foreground.

Now I LOVE my wedding and can't imagine it differently; maybe if my friend had brought her son I would be unable to imagine THAT ceremony having happened in a more perfect way. But no, I don't think babies belong at ALL weddings. Babies belong at ALL weddings in which marrying couple want them there . . .


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## pln (Jan 25, 2003)

Hi!








s to you sebastiansmommy. THat sounds like a tough problem that is going to take a lot of energy and discussion to work out.

THere have been a lot of good thoughts posted. I'm sorry that your SIL and MIL are not as kind to you as they should be. It sounds like your dh did not receive the kind of parenting that we all hope to provide to our children--but remember that your SIL didn't either. Perhaps she's clinging to him because he is the only one who really understands her and who has known her from the beginning? I hope that someday, they will realize the error of their ways and become like a real family to you and to your child.

I also hope that my own son will never declare to someone that I am not among the people he loves the most. I hope your son will not say this of you someday either.

Although I don't get along well with my MIL, I treat her the way I hope my son's wife will treat me some day (that is, if he turns out to be straight--LOL). It takes a lot of emotional strength but I try my best to be a good person and not take the low road. I vent often to my dh but try my best to suck it up and deal.

Our children will see how WE treat others and how generous we are to others, even when those people are not generous to us. We are the models that they learn from, even when we think they are not watching, and even when they are infants.

Just another story--my dh and I had a lovely, outdoor wedding with lots of babies and children. The kind of wedding I wanted was facilitated by having the kids there, even though many of the parents had loud and long "discipline" discussions with them in the middle of the ceremony. I'm quite a fan of GD, but NOT in the middle of my wedding ceremony. One was so loud that our officiant had to stop in order for the others to hear.

Now that I'm a breastfeeding mom, I do understand your unwillingness to leave your child; however, having had a wedding that was disrupted by some toddlers and preschoolers, I do understand a no-kids rule.

Geez, it's hard to be an adult, eh? I wish you luck and send you lots of good thoughts in this process.

Ciao!


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## ethan'smamaCT (Mar 27, 2004)

This strikes such a nerve with me because when a close friend got married when DS was 9 mos (same age as yours!), I bowed to social expectations and was in the wedding as a bridesmaid and my husband stayed in the hotel room with DS and unsuccessfully tried to give him bottled breastmilk. The whole thing was a fiasco, I was livid at my friend in the end and DH was pretty upset with me for putting friends before family. I am still bitter with my friend which is obviously stressful and she still doesn't understand why the whole thing was such a disaster for me. I desperately wish that I had not gone to her wedding. I think that your DH's attitude is awesome and you should revel in his support and stay home with your beautiful baby.


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
... I started this thread because I wanted to know what other people's opinions are on babies at weddings, which is why the title is "Babies at Weddings, yay or nay?" I just wanted to see if I'm alone in the way I feel.

If your husband is already not close to his mother and sister and he's not concerned about damaging the relationship further, then what is the problem? All the mothers on MDC could agree that babies should be allowed at weddings, that's not going to change _your_ situation.

*Your sister-in-law does not want babies at her wedding.* That's the only opinion that matters in this case. Your husband has decided that if his baby isn't invited, he's not going. He could drive down and stay with his mother for the night (as far as I can tell, that would not effect your baby at all and you haven't stated otherwise) But he doesn't want to do that. He's taken a stand that it's all three of you or none of you. Fine, that's his right. His missing the wedding will hurt his sister and strain their already troubled relationship. _That's_ what you need to deal with, not take opinion polls on whether or not babies should be at weddings because, really, who cares?

My husband's brother missed our wedding because he was killed in an accident two months prior. I think that's why I keep coming back to this thread. I wonder if your husband would find away to spend the day with his sister if she was in the ICU? Maybe not. Maybe they are really that disconnected from each other.

I'm just baffled that in the face of so much potential family discord, your concern is what women on a internet bb think of babies at a wedding.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

I was thinking about the fact that so many people have said that she has "the right" to invite and not invite whoever she wants. But just because you have the right to do something doesnt make it right, kwim? Ds will be the only baby at the wedding(nobody else she knows or is related to has kids or babies) and he's not some screaming toddler running up and down the aisles. He is just a little baby who is pretty quiet and very sweet. There are plenty of instances where I had the right to make some sort of rule but i didnt because it would have been selfish. And she has been involved in some of those times. I really dont think its about DS at all, I think it's a matter of her needing to cause drama and be in charge which is totally her M.O.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*
_
If I sound angry, it's because I'm getting the feeling here that some think leaving baby with a sitter is "negotiable" under the right circumstances. Well, if it is for you that is fine, but for many of us it is an important part of our parenting beliefs and philosophy not to do so, and I feel like suggesting that this is "negotiable" is really dismissive and disrespectful to those of us who feel that way. Babies should always come first, especially before something as trivial as a wedding ceremony (which, in the grand scheme of things, it really is).
_
_
_
_
I agree w/you a million %. We do not leave our 2 1/2 yr old w/a sitter. The only time he is w/o either of us is our 1 hr a week when we go to marriage counseling. We bring a friend of my hubby's (whom my son







), and the two of them play outside, dumping water, playing w/trucks while we are inside w/our therapist. If we weren't in counseling, we would have no need to be apart from our son. This is how we are choosing to raise our son. My husband and I are in 100% agreement over this.

In terms of the wedding, your husband has made his desires clear. No one is going. She seems rather toxic anyway and I'm sure something would piss her off anyway. (My sister was mad at how my hair looked at her wedding.) You can not please a toxic person, and it is probably healthier if you don't even try. Let her create her own dramas, just stay out of them.

In terms of wedding cost, we took into account the sheer amt of young people in our family and decided it would be best to have a small wedding (170 people) in a park that had a huge playground for the kids to play w/. Again, this was my choice, and we had such a blast. Tons of kids running around, everyone having a riot. It is remembered by everyone.

Keep your chin up, this will not be the first drama your SIL creates, even if you 2 go w/o your child.

Best of luck,
Amy_


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pugmadmama*
Frankly, I'm pretty shocked that you, of all people, are so hellbent on misrepresenting what other's have said. Usually you are a lot more fair than that.

With all due respect, I don't think you read my post clearly. I acknowledged that others (Britishmum, for example) had suggested bringing a friend or relative to look after baby...and that if this was an option for you, then fine - go for it! However, the OP stated quite early on in this thread that leaving the child was not something either she or her DH were comfortable with, and yet people kept suggesting she "find a friend or relative". That, to me, is dismissive and disrespectful of her choices as a parent. Basically, what this says is either "you're being paranoid about not wanting to leave your baby", or "hey, put aside what is important to you, put aside what you believe is the best interests of your child..." for what? A wedding?

I eloped (agree with pageta on that one), so I guess I have a very hard time equating what is basically a *party* with the well-being of your baby and something worth compromising your very deeply-held parenting values for. And I also don't see what the big deal is if her brother doesn't go. It's not like nobody else will be there, it's not like she isn't going to have enough going on that day. If she's gonna make a big deal out of it, that's her problem, IMO.

Quote:

...the husband attending alone or the op and her husband switching off childcare during the wedding.
The OP also said early on that her husband did not want to go, and based on everything she's told us I admire him for it. There's no way *I* could enjoy even brief back-and-forth attendance in that situation - I'd always be focussed on the baby and worried that she needed me. And if the DH feels the same way then why not give him the same credit we give a mother? It's pretty sexist to say that the father is not "allowed" to have the same separation anxiety as the mother simply b/c he cannot breastfeed. The DH is standing up for something he believes strongly in, and that should be respected.

Quote:

There are ways for the OPs family to be represented at this wedding that will in no way compromise how they care for their child...
I don't think any of us are qualified to say what will or will not compromise how they care for their child, and the OP has already been clear that it would.

Quote:

So, you jump from that to giving an exclusively-breastfed baby a bottle of formula or feeding a 3 month old cereal??? I wonder what you hope to accomplish by suggesting that the thoughtful ideas others have suggested here are anaologous to such inflamatory ideas?
My analogy, if it was clearly understood, holds. I would no more leave my young baby for a party (under any of the suggested circumstances) than I would give her formula. So to me, those suggestions (in the face of repated claims by the OP that she wouldn't be comfortable with them), ARE equivalent to suggesting giving formula or cereal (assuming that these are also values the parent holds as important) and were not meant to be inflammatory. My personal parenting values are something I believe are in the best interests of my baby. I expected them to be respected (though nobody has to agree with them). I would not compromise those values for a wedding.

Quote:

I'm trying to understand how one day apart is worse than the lifetime of bad feelings they will be creating by the OP's husband missing _his sister's_ (not a friend, co-worker, cousin or even SIL) wedding.

This assumes three things: 1) that "one day apart" is not a big deal for the OP's family (and who are we to make that decision for them?), 2) that such an event is really that important (it's a wedding, not some relative on kidney dialysis, or with a child in the hospital), and 3) that the relationship between the OP's family and the sister is something worth making the effort over (something none of us here can decide).

My feeling is this: just b/c someone shares some of your genes does not mean you "owe" them anything. True family are there for you when the chips are down...IMHO, a wedding day attendance is not the defining moment of a person's loyalty to their family. If someone in the OP's family were dying, in desperate need of aid, it might be different. And the "lesson" of being there for family will be completely lost on a young baby who is in a strange environment, away from his mama, and possibly very distraught.


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## pageta (Nov 17, 2003)

Well, I'll add that my child is (at this stage) very well behaved and we get compliments on this. However, we have been "banned" from certain places - I have been told under no uncertain terms that I am not welcome if I bring my baby with me. So I understand how it feels when you're child won't cause a problem but others lump you in with those children who might. Quite honestly, it doesn't make sense in practical terms for me to go to those places without my baby, so I just don't go. I would love to go...I miss my friends, and I really enjoyed going to those events before ds arrived. However, going without ds would be a logistical nightmare, so I chose to stay at home.

My sister is getting married in 5 months, and she would like me (her only sister) to be her bridesmaid. Well, most bridesmaid dresses aren't nursing dresses. DS is still breastfed exclusively (though he may not be in 5 months) so if I have to nurse at some point between when I get dressed for pictures and when the reception is over, I will have to find a room where I can completely disrobe just so I can feed my baby. (DS refuses a bottle or sippy cup, so no, that's not an option). I told her she needs to pick dresses that are more nursing friendly or I will quietly bow out and not stand up for her. Yes, her wedding is important to me, but there is a point beyond which I will not trouble myself for her.

A wedding will never be perfect. Like someone said, even if you get the right flowers, etc. someone may show up with a hairstyle you don't like and you'll have to look at it in pictures for years to come. I understand your SIL's desire to have a "perfect" day. However, life isn't perfect and choices have to be made. I understand how toddlers with their incessant questions can be a distration. However, a 9-month-old is not in that category.

I'm famous for giving people choices and letting them take ownership of the outcome. If I were the OP, I would tell SIL that she has two choices: A - if she would like you to be there, then you'll be bringing your baby with you and attending as a family or B - if she doesn't want your baby there, then you won't be either. Be very firm - those are her two choices - there are NO OTHER OPTIONS. Then tell her whichever she prefers is fine with you - it's completely up to her. Smile and shut up. The next person who talks wins. If she comes back with a different alternative, repeat the two choices you just gave her and ask again which she would prefer - either one is fine with you. From the way it sounds, you are going to have to deal with her like this for the rest of your life...so start practicing now. In my opinion, there is not other way to deal with people like this. They want their way - if you give them two options to chose from, they're in charge because they get to choose, and you don't have to give them options you aren't comfortable with.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
I was thinking about the fact that so many people have said that she has "the right" to invite and not invite whoever she wants. But just because you have the right to do something doesnt make it right, kwim?

You SIL sounds horrible, and I certainly don't want to defend her. But I don't understand "right" used in this way. Her not wanting you to bring your baby seems wrong to you and right to her.

From their perspective, if you have your baby there, the one and only baby, your family is going to get a lot of attention from relatives and friends and others (oh - look how sweet, oh how charming). Sounds like she is insecure about her day not being wholly hers. We've all felt upstaged before and I imagine that is what she is worried about, subconsciously or not. I don't know that this worry is "wrong" or "right;" it is just an understandable human emotion. We can call it "selfishness" or we can call it normal. Either way, I don't think her not wanting babies/kids at her wedding is "wrong."

Back to my wedding.







I didn't realize beforehand but see now that part of what made our very intimate elopment so special was that me and my DH were the complete and entire focus. It felt wonderful. The emotional intensity of our three guests was completely focused on us and our union. Would this intensity have been broken by a child/babies presence - I don't know but probably. It would have been a different kind of ceremony. Probably just as wonderful - unless, that is, I am someone who really wants that intense focus on me and my on special day. Sounds like your sil is such a somone, and I just can't say "wrong" to that; it seems a little out of the realm of "right" and "wrong" and into the realm of "personal preference."


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## dnr3301 (Jul 4, 2003)

ooohhhhh, this brings back some memories. We actually lost a friend over this issue (granted there was a lot else going on, but it was the last in a series of straws that sent us over the edge).

I had a newborn who would be 8 weeks old at the time of the wedding, dh was in the wedding, his best friend of years asked us not to bring the baby. I was livid, but a new mom and still unable to express sufficiently why it bothered me and said I just wouldn't go to the wedding. Somehow, this wasn't acceptable. (They made the same request of my SIL and BIL with their 2 week old, who was actually born early, so when they asked this, she should've been only days old). I kept saying, "you don't want babies at the wedding, fine. that means I can't go." I didn't try to talk them into letting me bring dd, I didn't call them names (to their face







, does to dh count?). Finally, dh's friend's fiance got on the phone and proceeded to call me names and tell me how selfish I was being by refusing to go to the wedding. I kept thinking, "I'm trying to do what they want, why won't they let me?" Never said that though, should've. That was a crappy conversation, ended up hanging up on her.

This was the best man at our wedding and now we aren't friends at all. so sad.

In the end, he told us to come with the babies (my niece and dd), but we were the exception and he would hold it against us forever. So, we sat in the last pew, holding our sleeping babes in slings, super aware of every newborn mewing that our babies never made, while person after person (who apparently hadn't been told not to bring their kids or at least hadn't asked about it) carried their crying babies in those carseats and 2 year olds ran around, fuming about how horrible we'd been made to feel.

We left the reception after dinner when it was announced that there was no smoking on the dance floor, but the rest of the room was fine, and we realized nearly the entire room was about to start chain smoking. They called us a few days later and yelled at us about leaving early and called a few other of our friends to tell them they didn't like the gift they got them. Really quite classy.

I agree that they can make a list including anyone they want, but you don't have to go. After all, they decided the date, right? and there are going to be people who can't go based on that information, if you can't go, you can't go, you get to decide that part, not them. Like my parent teacher at my early childhood family education classes says about toddlers, "Parents get to decide WHAT is for dinner, kids get to decide IF they eat it." You can only control your behavior. You have my support to not go.

And whoever it was who said they thought it was odd for you to seek out the opinions of an internet board when there is obvious termoil in the family: that's what this community is for. Are you telling me you've never used MDC as a sounding board to see if you are the only one who felt that way about something? Good grief.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnr3301*
And whoever it was who said they thought it was odd for you to seek out the opinions of an internet board when there is obvious termoil in the family: that's what this community is for. Are you telling me you've never used MDC as a sounding board to see if you are the only one who felt that way about something? Good grief.

No, I kinda liked that point. OP said twice (three times if you count the original post) that she came here to ask our opinion on whether babies should be invited at weddings; she also didn't want advice since her and her DH had already decided that they were both declining the invitation (which is fair).

I think the PP was trying to say that the OP gathering opinions on the question of whether babies be invited at weddings was not really going to get her anywhere since her SIL had already decided that babies shouldn't be invited to her wedding (which is fair).

I thought it was a gentle way to tell the OP that no matter what we think about babies and weddings abstractly, her baby not being invited and thus DH not attending his sister's wedding is not an abstract problem. If every single one of us agreed that "hell yes babies should be invited to weddings" (and not all of us agreed with that statement), it wouldn't change one bit the real family stuff that the OP is dealing with. In other words, maybe getting a bunch of internet MB posters to agree that her sil is wrong/mean/selfish isn't the most productive route for tackling this impass between the OP's family and her dh's family.


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Quote:

My SIL and MIL are extremely hung up on tradition!
Ah, so the bride is already pregnant and it's the hormones talking...

_couldn't resist_


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## dnr3301 (Jul 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
.
I started this thread because I wanted to know what other people's opinions are on babies at weddings, which is why the title is "Babies at Weddings, yay or nay?" I just wanted to see if I'm alone in the way I feel.

She says she wanted to see if she was alone in feeling that babies should be at weddings and if she and her dh were being unreasonable in saying they weren't going if it meant leaving their dc, that's why I said she was using us as a sounding board. I was never under the impression that we could fix this particular problem.


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
...But just because you have the right to do something doesnt make it right, kwim? ... I really dont think its about DS at all, I think it's a matter of her needing to cause drama and be in charge which is totally her M.O.

Having babies at a wedding is a matter of _opinion_. You're SIL is not right (or wrong) and neither are you. You have a difference of _opinion_.

But let's pretend you are "right", well, as the saying goes, you can be right or you can be happy. You're choosing "right". It seems to me that your SIL is not the only stubborn one in her family. Your SIL has declared "no babies." Your DH has declared "I'm not coming if my baby can't come." I think it's very sad when siblings cling to being "right" over being a family.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*
...True family are there for you when the chips are down....

Well, there you go, we have a basic disagreement about what "true family" is. I don't think of "true family" as a 911 service to call upon only when the chips are down. I think of "true family" as people who love you, who make allowences for your eccentricities when possible and who make nearly as much an effort to celebrate with you as they do to mourn with you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*
...And the "lesson" of being there for family will be completely lost on a young baby who is in a strange environment, away from his mama, and possibly very distraught.

Except, of course, if the OP's husband attended alone, the baby would never be away from his Mama.

I wonder if all you who are applauding the OP's husband for skipping this wedding would give the same advice to your own children? Would you encourage your son to stay with his wife and nine month old child or would you hope he'd be willing to give up _one day_ with his wife and child to attend your daughter/his sister's wedding?


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnr3301*
She says she wanted to see if she was alone in feeling that babies should be at weddings and if she and her dh were being unreasonable in saying they weren't going if it meant leaving their dc,...

Again, I ask, _what does that matter?_ *Her SIL thinks it's unreasonable to bring babies to her wedding.* That's all that matters here. That's what they need to focus on. So then the question becomes, what are they going to do in the face of that reality? Will they get a sitter? Will they swap care? Will one attend but not the other? Will they both skip it?

I think it's human nature to want to get a lot of "Yes, you're rights!" from outsiders when fighting with the people we love. But that's just a distraction. Who cares if strangers think you are right? This family needs to deal with their reality.

As I said, I have a special attachment to sibling issues. Or maybe even to family issues. My mother recently disowned me and it just seems an awful waste of time. Maybe this brother and sister really are better off apart. But from what the OP has written, it sounds like maybe they are just stuck in a pattern of diappointing/hurting each other. I guess this wedding will just be one more step along that same path. I was trying to introduce the idea that, _even though I think babies should be allowed at weddings_, maybe there is a bigger issue here. One that has to do with siblings and and old hurts and control issues and stepping off the usual path of hurt and trying to take the path of healing.

Even the OP said she doesn't think the baby being at the wedding is the real issue.

So, I wish the OP, her DH and his family the best of luck. I need to stop reading this thread, it's breaking my heart.


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## bethwl (May 10, 2003)

I guess I didn't catch that the OP would not leave her baby with a sitter under any circumstances. I thought that under the right circumstances she would be ok with that. But since she's not, then there is clearly no way for her to attend this function. The only option is for her husband to attend alone. If I were his wife, I would counsel him to do so to prevent bad feelings in the family. Yes, the SIL sounds like a piece of work and not the most empathic individual on the planet, but not attending her wedding would be a kind of bridge-burning, wouldn't it? Even if he doesn't have a great relationship with her now, if he hopes to ever have a better one, I think it would be important to try and attend. As to OP's clarification that all she wanted to know was how people felt about babies at weddings: I am fine with babies at weddings (had them at mine), but I understand if people don't want them there, too. And I do respect people who do not leave their children with sitters, that's absolutely their choice. But I have to admit I don't relate to it. I can't fathom spending years never being able to go anywhere by myself for more than a couple hours.

--Beth


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## DesireeH (Mar 22, 2003)

We probably wouldnt go if it were us. I have never heard of children/babies not being invited to a wedding. Seems odd since most people are getting married before FAMILY and FRIENDS and I didnt think there was an age limit to that. We had 350 people and probably 1/3rd of those people were minors. Maybe you can just go anyways to the reception but not the ceremony or is she opposed to that too? If it were me, I would send a gift but decline. She'll get over it once she has kids and realizes asking you to leave your little baby was a lame request.


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## fiddledebi (Nov 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pugmadmama*
I wonder if all you who are applauding the OP's husband for skipping this wedding would give the same advice to your own children? Would you encourage your son to stay with his wife and nine month old child or would you hope he'd be willing to give up _one day_ with his wife and child to attend your daughter/his sister's wedding?

Having been in this position myself, and having had many heart to heart talks with my parents about it, I can tell you that they had advised me NOT to go to my brother's wedding (their son) when my three week old daughter was not allowed to attend. They thought me overly sentimental when I claimed that not going would cause irreparable damage to my relationship with my brother, and they felt that I was setting up a dangerous pattern of acquiescing to requests that compromised my instincts.

THEY WERE RIGHT.

I went anyway (see my previous post). They were wonderfully supportive during the wedding weekend, and even came up to the hotel room with me many times to "help" check on my daughter. So, to answer PP's question: there are definitely some parents out there who would advise their children to skip the wedding if attending felt wrong to them.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

In response to Pugmad's question, quoted above, I too would not counsel my son to go against something that is very important to him for the sake of a selfish sister. And I would counsel my daughter that, if she really wants a child-free wedding that is her right, but not to then dump guilt trips on those who choose not to attend without their kids. But I dearly hope that my daughter and son respect each other enough to not put themselves in the OP's position in the first place.

I also don't get why people are giving validation to the notion that not attending a wedding means "strife for life". Geezus, the bride can get over it. It's one day in a lifetime of interactions. I don't see why anybody should "expect" such immature behaviour (ie. a relationship destroyed b/c someone didn't attend the others' wedding) and then base their decisions on the assumption that it's going to be that way. IMO, that just gives validation to what would be a childish and selfish response on the part of the bride (something that is HER choice, not the OP's). Anybody who holds a "lifetime grudge" b/c someone couldn't attend their wedding has bigger problems, IMO, than who showed up on the "big day".


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fiddledebi*
Having been in this position myself, and having had many heart to heart talks with my parents about it, I can tell you that they had advised me NOT to go to my brother's wedding (their son) when my three week old daughter was not allowed to attend...

Do you see no difference between a three week old baby and a nine month old one? No difference between expecting a nursing mother to attend vs. her non-nursing partner? Because, honestly, I see a big difference in those details. That was my question...a nine month old baby, a nursing mother and the non-nursing father being the sibling in question.

Piglet, Didn't you say you eloped? Saying that people should just "get over" matters concerning their wedding seems to be strange advice from one woman who didn't care about having a family wedding to another woman who clearly does. But I do agree with this:

"_But I dearly hope that my daughter and son respect each other enough to not put themselves in the OP's position in the first place._"

I hope that both of my children are mature and kind enough to do this. But if one isn't, I hope the other one is. Watching two adult siblings both cling to being "right", unwilling to give an inch, is very sad.


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## pageta (Nov 17, 2003)

Someone's going to be upset here: either the mother is going to be upset because she is away from her child, or the bride is going to be upset because her brother/SIL weren't there. You're going to have bitterness either way. Someone's going to have to get over something here. As for having a wedding vs eloping...the bride can be bitter because of all these fights about how things are done or she can just elope (so she isn't bitter) and the rest of the family can be bitter [in Piglet's defense]. You can't have your cake and eat it too!


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## frand (May 8, 2004)

It's really hurtful that the MIL and SIL are ganging up on you in such a weird way, esp. relating to the earlier wedding invite that did include your son. I am sure you are feeling they are rejecting your child -- it's not just your SIL, it's the MIL, your son's grandma. That's what I read into this. I don't know how long you've been married, but I'm hoping for your sake this isn't part of a larger pattern of behavior toward you. If it isn't, I would give them the benefit of the doubt and try a compromise. I understand why brides don't want crying babies during the service. But the 9 month old child of an immediate family member -- held in his mother and father's arms-- should hardly be an issue at the reception. ??


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## Kincaid (Feb 12, 2004)

Just wanted to chime in that I don't feel that ALL weddings, unequivocally, are "appropriate" for the attendance of children.

Not all movies/forms of entertainment/events are appropriate for children. Not all facilities are child-safe. Not all times of day/night are suitable for small children to be out and about. Not all noise levels of music are safe for babies little ears. Not all places are non-smoking, or non-drinking, or non-rowdy.

A couple getting married has the right to chose the type of wedding they wish to have. If they chose loud music, a smoking-allowed venue, alcohol being served, a nighttime party, etc then it may in fact totally not be suitable for a child or baby. The marrying couple may have the sense to *know* their event is not suitable for small children.... there was a PP who finally got the marrying couple to "let" her bring baby and then she was MAD at them because there was smoking at the event and she walked out, sounded like in a huff. Well, duh! They told you the wedding was not intended for children.

In my family, we either have alcohol OR kids at a wedding. Not both. The marrying couple decides the "tone" of the event. The marrying couple in my family is usually younger and childless, in more of a social age category, and they want a "party/celebration." In my family, smoking/drinking/partying is not an enviornment that moms *want* to drag their kids to. No one bats and eye when a caregiving parent stays home.

I don't think the bride is selfish at all. Not in the least. I do think the D.H. stating that the wedding must be arranged to accomodate the people he loves most (his wife and child) is selfish. We don't want people foisting their versions of 'family values' on us.... and we can't do the same either. She does not want her wedding to be a child-inclusive event. Should she bow to yours and DH vision of family and what you "need" out of this event. I don't think so. I think it is selfish of your DH to put her in that position, honestly.

Off topic, but I have a friend who was invited to one of those sex toy parties that women get together and have. She was excited to go, she needed the social time, she was very excited about it.... but she actually called the hostess and asked her if she could "fix" the party so that it would be suitable for her to also bring along her EBF toddler and 5 year old children. She was *MAD* that the hostess said uh, no, it's not going to be suitable to bring them. She started to argue with host, saying how important her children were to her, she never leaves them, how un-child-friendly the world is, etc... But the host just wanted an event that was not meant for kids, as much as she enjoyed them otherwise and as much as she wanted to make the other mom happy.


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## andi_3k (Oct 22, 2002)

Yor SIL sounds like a jerk.

That said, I would not have kids at my wedding either, if a parent couldn't/wouldn't come no harm no foul,
but I want a wedding where the photographer doesn't focus on taking pictures of the kids ( one friend's so called wedding album is almost all pictures of the kids, the proofs came back with 4 pictures total of her and her hubby) and where the most prevelant sound on the video is not baby crying, or fussing.
I threatened not to go to my brother's wedding because if SIL's antics.....with her the legnth of my hair, at that time past my knees, was the issue. My mother and brother backed her up, with the "it's her day stuff' but that only goes so far. when I told her that if she pushed it further I would show up with a reverse mohawk that had one side dyed electric Kool-aid blue and the other electric Kool-aid purple, she backed off ..at least on that.
What you do early in this relationship will set the tome for the rest of it,but beyond that you need to do what is best for you ...and for your kiddo. If she can't deal with the fact that your kid is nursing and you'll need to be with him, then she will never be able to deal with any of the demands your family places on your life.
If your husband is seriously opposed to going with out you ( not just that he doesn't want to give in to her) then he should not, but before you make that descision, please think about it.
I think she does need a reality check tho.


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## ShannonCC (Apr 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kincaid*
No one bats and eye when a caregiving parent stays home.

I don't think the bride is selfish at all. Not in the least.

I don't think you read all of the OP's posts. You said in your family no one bats an eye when a caregiving parent stays home. This woman's SIL has made it clear that she expects the child to be left at home and the mom staying home with her is not an option. I don't think it's selfish at all to want a child free wedding. I *do* think it's incredibly, monumentally selfish to tell a mother that she *has* to leave her child home. As has been said, a wedding is an invitation, not a summons!

If I were the OP, I would have my dh go alone, *but* from what has been said, it sounds as if SIL does not think that's an option either. I think if this were a reasonable woman then the dh might not have a problem going. It sounds to me he is drawing a line in the sand after putting up with his sister for years. I think this is more than "do kids belong at weddings" yk?

I also enjoy attending child-free events. Well, honestly, I don't care if other people's kids are there, I enjoy attending the occasional event without *my* kids. I am with them almost 24/7 (homeschooling and family bedding) so I enjoy getting dressed up and going to weddings and such without them. However, NO ONE tells me I *have* to leave my child. I don't care what that person thinks, what they did with their own kids, etc. If *I* say my kids aren't ready then that's the end of discussion. And for the record, my dd went through a rather severe separation anxiety from about 6 months to 1 year. I didn't leave her with anyone (no, not even her dad!) in that time. The child in question here will be 9 months which, for my dd, would have been in the thick of it. Even leaving the room would have been a screaming, hysterical fit. IMO, letting someone else dictate how you raise your child, even once, is a slippery slope you don't want to go on.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShannonCC*
If I were the OP, I would have my dh go alone, *but* from what has been said, it sounds as if SIL does not think that's an option either. I think if this were a reasonable woman then the dh might not have a problem going. It sounds to me he is drawing a line in the sand after putting up with his sister for years. I think this is more than "do kids belong at weddings" yk?


I just read the OP and what she said was:

"have said that I will sit out during the ceremony in case he makes any noise, but thats not good enough. DS really doesnt even make much noise beyond what a typical baby does. She just plain doesnt want him there. My husband basically says if DS isnt invited, we're not coming."

and

"Well regardless I dont want any babies at my wedding" so my husband told her that if he isnt invited then she should forget our invitations as well. I then explained to her all the reasons why DS wont be in the way and how much we want to come but we want to bring him because he is so important to us. She wasnt hearing any of it and said that we are being selfish by insisting on bringing him. And that we "have" to come and find a sitter because we cant miss her wedding.

and

"I asked DH about this and he says that he wouldnt feel much like celebrating if he cant do it with the people he loves most. Asking him to leave any of us out is an unreasonable request, in his opinion."

It doesn't sound like dh has offered to go just him to the wedding. It is *fine* if he doesn't want to go to his sister's wedding if his child (and thus his wife) can't go, but you can't say that the sil is being unreasonable by being unhappy that her brother would come without his wife since that option hasn't been offered.

I do think the dh is being as stubborn as his sister. Just as SIL doesn't have to not invite the dc, DH doesn't have to insist that he only attends if dw and dc attend. If dh goes alone than both he and his sister would be a little unhappy (she doesn't have you at the wedding; he doesn't have you and his child at the wedding); two parties both being a little unhappy is the sign of a good comprimise.

Now, it does sounds like there is a history of bad treatment here, which makes all this more complicated than it needs to be. That is families though . . .


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## ShannonCC (Apr 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe*
(quoting the origainal post) "And that we "have" to come and find a sitter because we cant miss her wedding.".

Just going by what you quoted here, doesn't this sound like she has demanded they both attend? That is what I got from her posts on this thread but then, I'm not taking notes :LOL

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe*
It doesn't sound like dh has offered to go just him to the wedding. .

No, that's what I said *I* would do in that situation. I would absolutely 100% stand by my decision not to leave my baby but I would encourage my dh to go. That's just *me* though.


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Quote:

I wonder if all you who are applauding the OP's husband for skipping this wedding would give the same advice to your own children? Would you encourage your son to stay with his wife and nine month old child or would you hope he'd be willing to give up one day with his wife and child to attend your daughter/his sister's wedding?
I would be ashamed if my daughter insisted that her brother and his wife attend without their infant. And I'd tell her so.

The pigheadedness I'm seeing here isn't in the childless wedding versus the nephew's attendence. It's in the bride's insistance that both attend Without their infant.

As has been stated and restated, it's an INVITATION, not a SUMMONS. How the family handles the arrangements and who from their family attends is up to THEM, not the bride. She can say "no children" but she cannot control how the parents handle that. When this one tried, she crossed the border into bridezillaland.

I'll grant that her brother is being stubborn too. Him going and his wife and child not is ...less than ideal... but doable. But that's been explained as not acceptable to this bride either. So even if he was willing to do this, she would Still not be happy.

Can you say "control freak"? I pity her poor husband-to-be. I hope he's watching, carefully....


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Meiri said:


> The pigheadedness I'm seeing here isn't in the childless wedding versus the nephew's attendence. It's in the bride's insistance that both attend Without their infant.
> 
> Him going and his wife and child not is ...less than ideal... but doable. But that's been explained as not acceptable to this bride either. So even if he was willing to do this, she would Still not be happy.
> 
> ...


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

Ok FOR EVERYONE WHO HAS SUGGESTED THAT DH GO WITHOUT ME..
There are new developments. A few days ago we were visiting MIL and SIL who were both acting extremely cold towards me and DS (im used to it but DS?) DS and I left MIL's house to go to a museum with an old friend from the area and her son. While I was gone DH and MIL, SIL got to talking about the wedding. DH as per many people on this message boards idea, suggested that he could come and me and DS would either stay home or stay in a hotel. MIL and SIL tagteamed him saying things like "thats probably best because Leah (me) probably shouldnt come anyway cnsidering all the problems she's caused with all this baby stuff" "Im kinda glad you brought that up. I dont really feel like Leah's part of the family anyway, know what I mean?" "I always thought it's odd how she carries that baby around everywhere like some kind of kangaroo or something, doesnt she realize how much that going to hurt his development?" "If she bought that ugly sling thing to my wedding I would die." DH said he sat there like this-







then this














. Then left and walked one mile to the museum.

Talk about trying to divide and conquer! Anyone STILL think we should go to this wedding???


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
Ok FOR EVERYONE WHO HAS SUGGESTED THAT DH GO WITHOUT ME..
There are new developments. A few days ago we were visiting MIL and SIL who were both acting extremely cold towards me and DS (im used to it but DS?) DS and I left MIL's house to go to a museum with an old friend from the area and her son. While I was gone DH and MIL, SIL got to talking about the wedding. DH as per many people on this message boards idea, suggested that he could come and me and DS would either stay home or stay in a hotel. MIL and SIL tagteamed him saying things like "thats probably best because Leah (me) probably shouldnt come anyway cnsidering all the problems she's caused with all this baby stuff" "Im kinda glad you brought that up. I dont really feel like Leah's part of the family anyway, know what I mean?" "I always thought it's odd how she carries that baby around everywhere like some kind of kangaroo or something, doesnt she realize how much that going to hurt his development?" "If she bought that ugly sling thing to my wedding I would die." DH said he sat there like this-







then this














. Then left and walked one mile to the museum.

Talk about trying to divide and conquer! Anyone STILL think we should go to this wedding???

Umm, the wedding is the least of your problems.

Sounds like dh may have to cut them out of his life, but that is a different thread. . .

I am sorry, it must have hurt your dh terribly to hear his mother say those things about you









Edited to add that it must have hurt you too - rejection even by people you don't respect still stings, so another


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

I say time to cut out the toxic ils ...( and in reference to kincaids post No her wishes for her wedding are not selfish BUT dictating HOW her brother and family WILL do things HER way regarding CARE of their child IS along with her telling them to move the birthdate for HER who doesn't even really care..that IS selfish)

And the pp 'Bridezillaland" ROFL


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## taz925 (Nov 29, 2001)

Leah,

If I were your DH, that would be the last time I talked to my family. No way no how would I let anyone bad mouth my DH to me. Good for him for leaving.

Doreen


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Quote:

Mamawanabe wrote:
Did I miss that post? I didn't see where the OP said that they offered the sil the comprimise of the dh coming alone. All I saw was we all come or none of us come . . .
Somewhere back in this thread I remember reading along those lines from Sebastian'smommy.

I see from her last post that my impression was correct in that they just plain want nothing to do with her, want her out of the family. I'd go so far as to say that they have a unhealthy attachment to her DH, their son and brother, because they are setting themselves up as competing with her for his attention and affection.

They have a problem. Now the question is do they see it and do something to solve it? or do they drive him away forever in their efforts to cling so tight?

As for being traditional, one of the traditional readings at a Christian wedding ceremony is the passage about a man leaving his mother and father and cleaving unto his wife. If they are tradtional in any but the appearance matters, I suggest they read and reread that passage and get some counselling. _just MHO._


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

For a lark, I reread the thread. Here's where I got my impressions of the bridezilla situation. All these quotes are from Sebastiansmommy, the original poster, in order in which they appeared. Seeing them together clarifies the picture for me anyway.









Quote:

I guess I should clarify some stuff for everyone...
The whole thing started about 3 months ago when a cousin of my husband's was getting married (in texas and we're in FL) The invitation was even made out to us and our son! My husband couldnt go because he had too much work but I considered going with DS so the family out in Texas could meet him for the first time. I told my SIL and MIL about my plans and they told me it is totally inappropriate to bring a baby to a wedding. I told them that he is invited and they basically said that she probably invited him out of courtesy but didnt expect us to bring him (how ridiculous is that) I ended up not going at all...
Fast forward to now... my husband jokingly said to my SIL while she was making wedding plans "too bad Sebastian (Ds) isnt old enough to be a ring barer, maybe he could crawl to the alter!" instead of laughing she replied "Well regardless I dont want any babies at my wedding" so my husband told her that if he isnt invited then she should forget our invitations as well. I then explained to her all the reasons why DS wont be in the way and how much we want to come but we want to bring him because he is so important to us. She wasnt hearing any of it and said that we are being selfish by insisting on bringing him. *And that we "have" to come and find a sitter because we cant miss her wedding.*

Quote:

I think my SIL is extremely selfish and is all about me me me. I see no reason to accomodate her. Here are some other unreasonable requests she has made/demanded
When I was 9 months pregnant and on bedrest with pre-eclampsya she was graduating from her MBA program. My husband wanted to stay by my side since I was so miserable and helpless and he had attended her ungrad graduation the year before he figured it would be ok not to go to her 2nd graduation. *SIL DEMANDED that he go knowing full well what the circumstances were. She called every 5 minutes crying and saying how this is so important to her and he is being a jerk for missing it.* He finally gave in and went and I had an extremely hellish day.
Next story...
During an obgyn visit my doctor said I should be induced because of my pre-eclampsya, and a few other things (drop in heart rate, etc)... He told me to think about it and call him back and let him know if I wanted to be induced and if so what day that week..Later that day MIL and SIL were visiting and we told them the story. I am not kidding you here, but *SIL said "Umm do you think you could do it next week because my boyfriend and I are going to the beach every day this week since it's so nice out" I am telling you she was not joking one bit! When my husband said that her request was ridiculous she sat there and pouted.*

Quote:

I was thinking about the fact that so many people have said that she has "the right" to invite and not invite whoever she wants. But just because you have the right to do something doesnt make it right, kwim? Ds will be the only baby at the wedding(nobody else she knows or is related to has kids or babies) and he's not some screaming toddler running up and down the aisles. He is just a little baby who is pretty quiet and very sweet. There are plenty of instances where I had the right to make some sort of rule but i didnt because it would have been selfish. And she has been involved in some of those times. *I really dont think its about DS at all, I think it's a matter of her needing to cause drama and be in charge which is totally her M.O.*
As far as I can tell, this SIL and MIL think that marriage tears a family apart instead of adding to it or joining two families. Hardly the traditional view.....


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

actually her last post supports my reading that they would be satisfied with the comprimise of DH attending the wedding alone. Of course, they would be satisfied for all the wrong reasons (yes, unhealthy attachment to dh), reasons so wrong that they make the wedding question moot because the question now is not "are they wrong not to invite DS to the wedding" but "is my dh going to have to sever all contact with his childhood family"


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## sntm (Jan 1, 2004)

Sebastian's Mom, what an awful woman! I must admit that I totally sympathized with her at first (I chose not to invite children to my wedding, would still prefer it that way, but in no way would have been offended if someone did not attend because they did not want to be separated from their child) but she has clearly demonstrated that this is not about trying to have the wedding she has dreamed of but instead is about trying to push you and your DS out of the picture!

Good for your DH for standing up to them. They do not have the right to ask for your accomodation when they are extended none of the same courtesy to you.


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

I can see that interpretation too Mamwanabe.
















to him for standing up to them when they showed their true colors that day.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
DH said he sat there like this-







then this














. Then left and walked one mile to the museum.

You married a good guy. No, a great guy.

I'm sorry you have to deal with all this, but at least your husband managed to survive his family and still come out with his head on straight.


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## chalupamom (Apr 15, 2002)

My two (well, more like 99) cents:

- the OP's SIL is clearly 'round the bend nuts
- as is the OP's MIL
- Sounds like the baby's non-invite had less to do with the wedding than overall opinions about the OP and husband's parenting choices in general
- given everything we've learned, not only should the OP and family skip this particular shindig, but they'd be well served to rid themselves of these two if they can or at least keep contact to a minimum
- the SIL and MIL might be the husband's "family of origin" but that fact does nothing to mitigate the fact that they are clearly off their rockers where he and his [chosen] family are concerned. People routinely leave their "origins" to find better lives or a more hospitable personal environment, no reason it can't be done with people, too.

As for babies at weddings in general:

- categorizing the desire to not have babies at weddings as "WASPy nonsense" shows a lack of understanding of what exactly goes on at traditional English (i.e., the original WASP) weddings): kids as attendants, specifically bridesmaids. No kid weddings might be a lot of things, but WASPy they ain't. I am WASP by blood and upbringing and my wedding was more or less a no kid event - no one under the age of 16.
- Hosts and hostesses get to decide who is on an invite list. No one else. Full stop.
- No one "has" to attend any given function. You might be vulnerable to emotional blackmail, but that doesn't mean you "have" to go anywhere just because you're invited. And, if you're old enough to make up your own mind, you're old enough to take the heat about your decision
- I _have_ been to weddings that, albeit not ruined by babies, have been adversely impacted. It's unfortunate that this is one area where the few completely rude and ignorant among us ruin the deal for everyone else. I had just become engaged when I attended one of the "ruined" weddings where mom didn't make any attempt to comfort, amuse or otherwise attend to the baby she carried. I felt so bad for the kid and for everyone else - he sounded hungry to me, but she just let him cry and cry - not only could many of us not hear the vows but the cries completely ruined the video (I don't care for video myself, but the bride in this case chose to have one and paid dearly for a tape with a soundtrack of an infant crying - the video people could only do so much with that kind of racket - churches are designed to have sound CARRY). At that moment I decided that if people couldn't be trusted to be kind under these circumstances I wasn't going to allow the opportunity to be otherwise. So those who are upset that their babes aren't invited have the insensitive and rude to thank for those brides' stances.
- I've also been to weddings where children have added an element that was truly joyful and enjoyed by all.
- In short: kids at weddings is a crap shoot not everyone chooses to take. Nothing wrong with bypassing that particular bet if you don't like your odds.


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## PadmaMorgana (Apr 14, 2004)

Sebastiansmommy (sorry if I spelt this wrong....I'm mak'ing)....

After reading your update this is all I have to say:












































:














:














:























With family like that who needs enimas??

Holy Crap on a stick Batman. I cannot believe your MIL and SIL.

wow. Your DH is super duper wonderful. But I think going to the wedding is the least of your worries, I would be worrying about what would be more effective; blocking their calls or changing your number.


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## Drewsmom (Jan 12, 2002)

mammawannabe, I know I shouldn't be posting without having read all of the posts but I read your description at the top of page 6 as far as your baby not being invited to the wedding. I just wanted to at my 2 cents.

When it was my wedding my sister had my little nephew who I loved but had only seen once. What the issue was for me was not to not have him but for my sister to be a bridesmaid I wanted her to wear one of the dresses I had picked out (of course it was zipper up the back). She threw a fit about it b/c she was nursing 9 mo old nephew who I then promptly told her that she shouldn't even be nursing a baby "that" old, and let alone in public, "why couldn't (she) just use my private dressing room for heavens sakes" (







). I said it more b/c she didn't seem supportive at the time by the way she went about it and was so hot headed. She ended up picking out a two piece blouse and skirt that matched everything but it was a sore memory.

I just say that b/c at the time I had no idea how attached I would become to my baby and that i would nurse him for 2 years, cosleep and become really akin to the AP philosophy. Who knew??

Your situation may be about something totally different as I gathered from some other comments but just bear in mind that who knows, maybe this same future in law may be gleaning ideas from you in a couple of years when they have children and just may very well understand why it was you wouldn't leave your baby behind for their ceremony or reception. Try to stay cool headed about it just in case. I'm *positive* that my sister never thought back then that I'd be in the like minded camp now.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drewsmom*
mammawannabe, I know I shouldn't be posting without having read all of the posts but I read your description at the top of page 6 as far as your baby not being invited to the wedding. I just wanted to at my 2 cents.

When it was my wedding my sister had my little nephew who I loved but had only seen once. What the issue was for me was not to not have him but for my sister to be a bridesmaid I wanted her to wear one of the dresses I had picked out (of course it was zipper up the back). She threw a fit about it b/c she was nursing 9 mo old nephew who I then promptly told her that she shouldn't even be nursing a baby "that" old, and let alone in public, "why couldn't (she) just use my private dressing room for heavens sakes" (







). I said it more b/c she didn't seem supportive at the time by the way she went about it and was so hot headed. She ended up picking out a two piece blouse and skirt that matched everything but it was a sore memory.

I just say that b/c at the time I had no idea how attached I would become to my baby and that i would nurse him for 2 years, cosleep and become really akin to the AP philosophy. Who knew??

Your situation may be about something totally different as I gathered from some other comments but just bear in mind that who knows, maybe this same future in law may be gleaning ideas from you in a couple of years when they have children and just may very well understand why it was you wouldn't leave your baby behind for their ceremony or reception. Try to stay cool headed about it just in case. I'm *positive* that my sister never thought back then that I'd be in the like minded camp now.

Huh? Do you have me confused with another poster? I was quoting the original poster, perhaps you meant her message to be aimed at her (I'm babyless still







)


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I, too, am sorry you and your DH had to go through this, sebastiansmommy. I'm very proud of your DH for sticking up for you and your parenting beliefs. I'm afraid you will face some tough decisions about how to handle these people in your life in the future.

My father and his whole family are from Englad, true pasty-white Brits (I think they were probably protestant). does that mean they were WASP's? Well, alcohol has never been considered a reason to keep kids absent in my family, lol. We were drinking diluted wine and having sips of brandy out of souvenir thimble-mugs at a very early age, lol.


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## Anna Trueblood (Jul 11, 2002)

I guess I will be the lone dissenter here. I think your husband should go to his sister's wedding. You and the baby should stay home. His family of origin is also important and for this one event, it's not going to cause any harm to his parenting relationship with your son to be away. It _will_ cause harm to his relationship with his sister and probably his parents.


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Lest this be forgotten

Quote:

And that we "have" to come and find a sitter because we cant miss her wedding.
The bride is demanding the presence of both her brother and his wife, though in the last update from Sebastian'smommy, MIL and bride voiced being okay with only him being there. Unfortunately they did so in the context of insulting the OP and their parenting decisions.

Why should this family worry about harming the relationship with his mother and sister when they obviously have no qualms about trying to drive wedges between him and his wife? How much poison do they have to take?


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## pln (Jan 25, 2003)

Oh dear.







s







s







s

No one has teh right to insult your spouse to your face (or otherwise, IMHO) and then expect you to agree. I wonder what SIL would do if future BIL had this occur with his parents?

They clearly do not understand the sacred nature of a married relationship.

I'm so sorry. I thought previously that dh should go to that wedding b/c family of origin is SO UNBELIEVABLY IMPORTANT but nowhere near as important as the marriage. Dh does not need to support a mother and a sister who are outwardly insulting and rude to his wife and child. In fact, Dh going would be a capitulation to their views. Sigh.

I'm so sorry again that this is the family you have acquired through marriage. You deserve better. Wishing the best for you and yours,

P.







s


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
Ok FOR EVERYONE WHO HAS SUGGESTED THAT DH GO WITHOUT ME..
. DH as per many people on this message boards idea, suggested that he could come and me and DS would either stay home or stay in a hotel. MIL and SIL tagteamed him saying things like "thats probably best because Leah (me) probably shouldnt come anyway cnsidering all the problems she's caused with all this baby stuff" "Im kinda glad you brought that up. I dont really feel like Leah's part of the family anyway, know what I mean?" "I always thought it's odd how she carries that baby around everywhere like some kind of kangaroo or something, doesnt she realize how much that going to hurt his development?" "If she bought that ugly sling thing to my wedding I would die."

Well, I was one of the many people who thought that your dh should go to the wedding without you. At this point, I can't imagine that he will decide to do that. I sure wouldn't. I don't think I would be able to maintain a relationship with my family if they decided that my husband and baby weren't part of our family. (Fat chance that would happen!







They only want me around to see the baby!)

I also can't imagine that your SIL is going to be able to stay married. What she and your MIL said shows that they don't take marriage seriously as a transformative speech-act that makes people related. She also doesn't understand that a nephew is a member of her family! How confusing it's going to be for her to have a husband! What if she has a baby herself, is that baby a member of her family? After all, it's only a baby! It's all very nutty!

The classy thing for _you_ to do, the way you win in this situation, is that you send a note with regrets and a very nice gift. These people are related to you and to your son, even though they don't understand why that is.







You might even sign it in your own and your son's names.


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## raleigh_mom (Jan 11, 2004)

Ok, I am editing...
I didn't see until a minute ago the part about not considering you a part of the family. At that point, DH and I would both probably not go, and would have some severe words with the family. They probably would not see my face, or my child's, for a long time.

Before editing, I wrote...
This has become a huge thread, and I didn't read every single response, so maybe someone has already had this opion. I realize I am in a minority here, but no way would I take my kids to a wedding. I have a 3yo and a 15 mo old and I would not have taken them at any age past newborn (under 6 mos or so) to a wedding. I wanted to say no babies at our wedding, but knew it would cause too severe upset to DH's family, so I didn't. Plus we included lots of kids in the ceremony as ring bearers, candle lighters, flower girls so it would have been impossible to only include some children, not all.

My choice would be to send DH and stay home happily myself with the kids, or bring a friend or sitter to sit in a nearby location together. I am an attached, breastfeeding mom, but I really consider a wedding to be a Bride's day and for the most part to be a grown up event.


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## Anna Trueblood (Jul 11, 2002)

I didn't see the part about them not considering you or the baby part of the family. In that case, screw them.


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## frand (May 8, 2004)

Wow. What ugly people. This must be really painful. I have thought a lot lately about what obligations one has to one's in-law family--how much obnoxius/subversively hostile stuff you're supposed to overlook. I have told my husband I am through with his family after 20 years for things that have evolved since my daughter was born, but they have never done or said anything nearly as blatant as what you and your husband experienced. Unfortunately, cutting them off does not make the anger and pain go away, but these two women sound like they would really be toxic toward your child. I am sure your ways of parenting are somehow threatening to them (the mother/daughter combo can be incredibly potent against a SIL who does things differently-- it's not even rational, it's purely emotional). This is not something that will go away easily and will probably evolve over time, but you and your husband sound like you have a really strong relationship and he has taken the right stand for his own family. Buuuut, wouldn't it be funny if your husband showed up alone with the baby in a sling? Ok, I just had to get that out.


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## sleepies (Nov 30, 2001)

if it was not a close family member, I would say don't go.

but, since it is his sister.

i think maybe you should stay home with the baby and your husband should go to his sister's wedding.

he should go to the reception for a short time, and leave early. stating "i have a family at home and i can't stay long".

but, i think he has to go. since it is family.

ps.
i understand her not wanting babies there, i'd not want babies at my wedding either, but i am nowhere near brave enough to ask...so... i think it is amazing she had the guts to speak up.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Wow! I just read through all seven pages of this thread! And I should have taken notes because I had so many things I wanted to comment on and now I forget most of them....

Sounds like your SIL is pretty immature to say the least. Hopefully she will improve with time. Don't know what to say about MIL....

You obviously have married into quite a family. Your dh seems to be squarely on your side though so you will be fine.

But on weddings and babies IN GENERAL (not in this specific case) - I have been to weddings ruined by idiot parents who allowed their baby or toddler to cry or otherwise make noise during the ceremony. I am always shocked and horrified when it happens. I am unable to understand how people could have different opinions on this - it is someone's WEDDING - they are vowing their lives to one another! A little respectful silence is appropriate. If you bring a child to the wedding - which I try to avoid unless the bride/groom specifically ask me to bring them - you sit in the back, on an aisle, near the door, with binky at the ready (don't know about you but my kids made noise when they nursed sometimes - either slurpy or mmmm noises which of course are darling and sweet TO ME, IN MY LIVING ROOM, not at someone else's wedding ceremony.

And with your unfortunate in-law situation not withstanding (am I using that correctly....), I do find it sad that someone would not lump his mother and sister in the group of people he loves most. I am starting to understand why after reading all the details but again in general, it is just sad. I think that being there for a sibling, on their special day, takes easy precedence over being with a spouse and child on a day which is not a special day to them. Deciding between the sibling's wedding and the child's birth - of course birth! But deciding between the sibling's wedding and... what? Hanging out in the family room? I think the SIL is obviously being rude and immature - maybe she will grow up someday. She is your child's aunt - and the future mother of his cousins. For your child's sake, (well, maybe not in your specific family....) I would do the best I could to please - all 3 of you go, dh goes to wedding while you hang outside or nearby hotel or what have you, all three go to reception if ok with bride/groom. If not then just dh go alone. I really feel the need to reiterate that this is my opinion in general for these type circumstances, not with the OP's nutty ILs.

At the end of this month, we are driving two hours (each way) to my cousin's wedding. We got the invite addressed to me and dh. Note inside (typed along with the directions) requested no kids. Fine. Harder for me to pull off - yes. Am I mad, offended, defensive that she thinks my kids are somehow less than wonderful - no. They are invited to the reception but since I'm not comfortable leaving them with the sitters the bride/groom arranged (never met them - different location than the ceremony) AND I want to take the kids to the reception to see the extended family that will be there, we are all five going but dh will take the kids out for a drive or what have you while I am at the ceremony then we'll all go to the reception. If it was friend's or coworkers or someone who didn't necessarily want/need to see my kids, I would leave them with a sitter at my house. My kids are 8, 4 and 1 but any age but younger than 3 or 4 months I think I'd feel the same - and I nursed.

Oh, remembered one final comment (I promise!) A good friend of mine was a bridesmaid at another friend's wedding when her dd2 was a few weeks old - yes, I said weeks! Out of town wedding, big fancy strapless gown, nightmare huh? But she is a lovely person and they were and still are great friends and because she loves her, she did what she had to do to participate on that special day. Her dh held the baby, I ran back and forth with her to the dressing room between photos and immediately before and after ceremony to help her nurse the baby - I'd unzip the dress while she held baby, I'd hold baby while she sat down with dress around her waist and bra off (not a lot of nursing strapless bras....) with a towel to keep the other breast from leaking on her dress! We died laughing the entire time. It was not easy (and still to this day we laugh when we look at the pix because she always says that each breast is bigger than her own head) but it was the friend's special day and my friend was the bigger person and let it be about HER, not the inconvenience/juggling it took for her to be there.

Going to stop because I'm sure this computer won't allow a post any longer than this!!!!!


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## AahRee (Jan 23, 2003)

You have a good guy in your DH. I'm sorry his mom and sister are so horrible, though, and I agree with those who have said that it is probably time to seriously consider cutting them out of your lives permanently. I definitely wouldn't be going to the wedding.

As far as babies at weddings go, I haven't ever understood why anyone would want a child-free wedding. I know that at my wedding, there were lots of babies and children, and they only added to the magic of the day.







Fortunately, we never faced a situation like yours while DD was little. In your situation (before the comment about you and your DC not being part of the family) I would have sent DH alone, or declined (depending on how much of an issue SIL had made the no-kids thing. If she'd been nasty about it, we would definitely just decline to attend.) In light of her feelings about you, though, I would definitely not send DH, and I would consider attending to be agreeing with SIL and MIL that you weren't an important part of the family. While extended family is important, and I love mine dearly, my loyalty is first to DH and DD, and DH's loyalty is first to DD and I. If someone insults DH or says he's not part of *our* family, you'd better believe I'm going to stick up for DH, affirm that my relationship with him is the MOST important relationship in my life, and make sure they understand that bad-mouthing him is NOT acceptable.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

any more new developments? Has the wedding been and gone yet?


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

No wedding yet. It is in October. At this point we (us and the ILs) arent speaking. We're not going to the wedding and we're keeping their chaos out of our lives for now.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
No wedding yet. It is in October. At this point we (us and the ILs) arent speaking. We're not going to the wedding and we're keeping their chaos out of our lives for now.

Leah









I have recently cut out the most toxic members of my family, and it was very hard at first. But, honestly, I have never felt better. I deserve to be happy.

Lots of love to your family,
amy


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

I haven't heard back from my relative since I replied to their email. I did tell them I would be writing snail mail later and I intend to ..
I just can't decide whether to do it now or wait until Mercury comes out of retrograde since it fries communication.....


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## kickchick2000 (Aug 17, 2004)

My fiance and I are planning our wedding and the NO CHILDREN rule applies to family and friends. Here is my reason, it's our wedding its our day and if we don't want to even take a chance at hearing your child cry thats our choice. It would be horrifiying if while we are walking down the aile someone's baby decided to start fussing! We are in a simmilar situation my niece will be only 5 monthes old at the time of the wedding and family is flamming mad but my finace and I don't really care. We have suggested that our future niece spent time with her grandparents on the other side for a few hours that day. How hard is that? Maybe you should look into that or a close friend, even if you just went to the ceremony and left her with a good friend for an hour or so. Or your husband can go and you can stay home. (sorry if that sounds harsh but you know what I mean).
AMC


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

kickchick -- have you READ this entire thread? Or at least all the updates from the OP? Have you ever experienced how often a 5 month old needs to nurse? Perhaps you could help your family by offering that your niece come to the reception only &/or only one of the baby's parents attends the actual ceremony. You are certainly entitled to your day, but remember that your sibling (or sibling-in-law) is entitled to not attend and should not be made to feel guilty about that.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I think your SIL is acting like Bridzilla and







to your dh for refusing to go w/o ds.

I refused to attend my cousins wedding because she also had a "no kids" policy (she likes to be the center of attention) and our dd was about 8/9 at the time and it was an out of town wedding. Sorry, I'm not driving 5 hours to attend her wedding (we aren't close at all) and have my dd not welcome and be expected to leave her with strangers since everyone we knew would be attending the wedding. That's nuts, IMO.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote It would be horrifiying if while we are walking down the aile someone's baby decided to start fussing!

You've got to be kidding me. I'll grant you that it isn't the most desireable situation, but I'd call being stood up at the altar horrifying, not a fussing child.


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

I have to add, that during my wedding, my (2 year old niece) flower girl ran up & down the aisle multiple times (during the ceremony), and eventually her mother (one of the bridesmaids) had to take her over to her dh who was sitting in the front row. I never noticed any of that -- nor did her quiet giggles/noises come through on the video.

A couple of the guests commented about it (it obviously bothered them), and when I said I didn't notice, they were quite surprised (and disappointed??) -- but that didn't matter, because like you say -- it's all about what the bride & groom want -- and I can't imagine a day without ALL of my family & friends present. In truth, I'd like to have skipped inviting some of they kids' parents & just invited the kids... :LOL


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cinnamonamon*
kickchick -- have you READ this entire thread? Or at least all the updates from the OP? Have you ever experienced how often a 5 month old needs to nurse? Perhaps you could help your family by offering that your niece come to the reception only &/or only one of the baby's parents attends the actual ceremony. You are certainly entitled to your day, but remember that your sibling (or sibling-in-law) is entitled to not attend and should not be made to feel guilty about that.


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## PadmaMorgana (Apr 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
No wedding yet. It is in October. At this point we (us and the ILs) arent speaking. We're not going to the wedding and we're keeping their chaos out of our lives for now.









to you and your dh....

Sometimes it is best to cut out the more toxic members of our families.

I hope you continue to find a calm and peace in your life without the choas surrounding some 'family' members.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

Have you really read the entire thread kickchick?? It isn't really about no babies at a wedding per se. Bride doesn't want kids at wedding that is fine it is her choice and her day ( sorry folks that is MPO I had kids at both of mine my bil from first marriage was 3 at the time) but Bride does NOT get to tell her Brother that HE WILL DO A B C and that he and his family have NO CHOICE. He is an adult with his own family to take care and can make his own choices on what he will and won't do...
And to later tell her brother that the SIL and nephew are not and will never be a part of the family ...well... UGH says I


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## mom2tig99Nroo03 (Apr 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AahRee*
You have a good guy in your DH. I'm sorry his mom and sister are so horrible, though, and I agree with those who have said that it is probably time to seriously consider cutting them out of your lives permanently. I definitely wouldn't be going to the wedding.

In light of her feelings about you, though, I would definitely not send DH, and I would consider attending to be agreeing with SIL and MIL that you weren't an important part of the family. While extended family is important, and I love mine dearly, my loyalty is first to DH and DD, and DH's loyalty is first to DD and I. If someone insults DH or says he's not part of *our* family, you'd better believe I'm going to stick up for DH, affirm that my relationship with him is the MOST important relationship in my life, and make sure they understand that bad-mouthing him is NOT acceptable.


couldn't have said it any better.


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## kickchick2000 (Aug 17, 2004)

Oif k for all those wondering kickchick did read all the posts, I did and I also did make a sugestion, in fact three of them. True the SIL should not be ordering her brother around, thats so silly. If she has made the rules she should be willing to except that her brother and his wife may not both be able to attend and end it there.I was also just staring that I'm on the other side of the fence in the SIL position. However we have never demaded my future BIL and his wife attend. If they decide not to attend because we have set the rules I will have wished they could have but I would never demad and bring other family into it. I would also offer to get together with just them to celebrate afterwards maybe at their house so that they would not have to travel with their baby.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Unless a reception is in a place that is inappropriate for all children (bar, etc...) I can not understand having a no BABIES reception.

I fully understand no babies/toddlers/children at a ceremony. They are inevitabley a bit noisy (though often not noisier than other adults)

I understand no toddlers/children at the reception for financial reasons (though at ours and most in the area children under 2 were free, 3-10 at a discount) and just atmosphere reasons.

I can't understand, though, no babes in arms at a reception. A 9 month old can't talk, doesn't eat, won't be running around, etc... If we are invited to a no children even, I have always assumed it meant just that-- no *children* (ie, nursing BABIES, as an extension of the mother, would be welcome). Humans are born practically premature, so that's just what I figure. I know I'm not alone because DH's Christmas party (the one year we've been able to go) was peopled w/babes in arms, though it was "childless."

kickchick2000, what you DID say is the following:

Quote:

We are in a simmilar situation my niece will be only 5 monthes old at the time of the wedding and family is flamming mad but my finace and I don't really care. We have suggested that our future niece spent time with her grandparents on the other side for a few hours that day. How hard is that?
I'm confused why you are on an AP/Natural Family Living site if you can't understand why leaving a 5 month old for a few hours could be a problem. Do you know exactly what MDC stands for/supports? Does this baby often spend time w/her grandparents? Does she readily take a bottle? Is she used to being left for hours? I can understand you making any decision you want, but am rather supprised you "don't care."


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## ohiomom7 (Oct 7, 2005)

Hello dear ladies. I've been reading this thread, and I agree and can understand the various points of view. I'm a 42 year-old mom of 7 children (ages 21 through 4), and my husband and I have been in this dilemma just once, and there are hard feelings to this day. Our niece was getting married and all the first cousins were invited, (22 of them), and our first two kids (ages 17 and 19 - at that time) were invited - also first cousins. Our younger 5 children (also first cousins) were not invited. My husband, who is the brother of the bride's mom, told his sister that we would not be coming to the wedding (unbeknownst to me) - my SIL than made me the scapegoat and told the people in our business (we are partners in a home-based business) that "I" was the one that decided our family was not going. In truth, my dear husband, who loves his sister dearly (they are a close-knit family of 9 children), felt profoundly offended that our first two children were invited, but not the other 5. In all honesty, our 5 younger children are just a few years younger than all the other first cousins. In reality, the reason why they were not invited was because they didn't want to pay for them at the reception. The SIL said that we "would understand" someday when our own children got married.

We never will because my husband and I paid for our own wedding and reception 22 years ago, and all of the aunts, uncles, and first cousins were invited, including this sister's children, when they were little tikes. (My husband is the youngest of 9). To us, a wedding is about family, all the family.

My husband and I have been to many weddings and not bringing our children was never a problem; fortunately, my mom watched the little ones while she was still alive (God bless her soul). But to have EVERY SINGLE FIRST COUSIN INVITED, except our youngest five, and then be made out like we were the "bad" guys has left a horrible feeling in us, and my husband's feelings towards his dear sister have changed profoundly. And it was all about the money, about saving on 5 plates of food.

Another SIL (at a business function that we both attended) - told me how wonderful the reception was, and that we missed a "good time". All three of her children were invited, all the other brother's and sister's children were invited- just not our youngest five.

We did go to the wedding, but not the reception (just my husband and I).

Very sad to this day about this wedge that has come between our family, between first cousin and first cousin. Hopefully, time will heal things.


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

I wouldn't attend a wedding where my babe in arms wasn't allowed. We attended a wedding when she was 2.5 months old and she nursed through the ceremony. I would either not attend or attend with the baby, ignoring the poor manners of the couple. To me, a marriage is a family event.


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## fire_lady (Aug 24, 2005)

Baby on wedding is ok with me. It is depending on the child's attitude.
In last 2 year I attended 3 wedding and ds is with me. I didn't have any problem. He is well behave at that moment.
First talk to your DH about it and then your SIL. You might find solutions withs this.


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## DesireeH (Mar 22, 2003)

I wouldnt go either.

At my wedding we had 350 people and tons were kids.......it was not a big deal. And to see the little toddlers dancing was super cute!

I do agree that the bride/groom can decide what they want, but you also can decide that you dont want to attend.

My ds is going to be the ringbearer in my brothers wedding in February and we'll have an 8 week old then too who is definately coming. I've never been invited to a wedding that didnt allow kids though, all my friends are super down to earth.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kincaid*

Off topic, but I have a friend who was invited to one of those sex toy parties that women get together and have. She was excited to go, she needed the social time, she was very excited about it.... but she actually called the hostess and asked her if she could "fix" the party so that it would be suitable for her to also bring along her EBF toddler and 5 year old children. She was *MAD* that the hostess said uh, no, it's not going to be suitable to bring them. She started to argue with host, saying how important her children were to her, she never leaves them, how un-child-friendly the world is, etc... But the host just wanted an event that was not meant for kids, as much as she enjoyed them otherwise and as much as she wanted to make the other mom happy.

Okay, that's just scary.


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

I attended a wedding last weekend and left the kids with my mom for an hour and a half. I liked going without the kids. I missed them for sure but it was rather nice not having to worry about DD tossing her food at someone PLUS I got to wear my "grown up" clothes. There was one toddler there and he created a ruckus by running into people. I'm not quite sure why his parents didn't exit the room and let the poor kid run or just take him home!

My DD is one of those extremely active kids who always seems to be sticky from something. I can totally understand why the bride would prefer not to have kids like that around. If I got my druthers in life, I'd have a nudity exemption and be allowed to wander public totally naked because I'm always slimed up from something from her. I wear about 4 different shirts every day!!

And for my DS, I took a cell phone (which is tacky in it's own right!) and my Mom called me when DS needed to nurse. I apologized to the table for having a cell phone there and explained why and everyone seemed very understanding and they even made my apologies for a quick departure to the bride and groom for me! That's why I spent an hour and 10 minutes only at the reception. :LOL

That was the first hour I've ever been away from DS. It was strange, oddly liberating, but I also missed him like crazy. Ah, motherhood!


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## mommyofshmoo (Oct 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PadmaMorgana*
nak

ok...here are my 2 cents. as a bride (or bridezilla) she has every right to determine who is at her wedding. AND you have every right to decide to go or not.

I had kids at my wedding...dang cute. A baby or 2. MOST parents know their children and won't let them disrupt the ceremony and will take care of them during the reception. If you have reassured your SIL that the baby will not disrupt anything and she has decided that she still does not want him there then fine.....don't go.

I agree with you and your DH. I wouldn't go if my kids weren't invited. Well, ok, MAYBE I would leave DS at home with a sitter (unless they were at the wedding, he has only been with MIL & FIL :LOL), but DD??? No freaking way.

I don't know why it is causing problems with your family. SIL said no baby. Baby isn't invited, you and your DH are turning down the invitation as you see your child as more important than to just shove him off on some sitter. The last time I checked, it was an INVITATION not an OBLIGATION.

Tell your family to back off.....SIL made her choice, you made yours.


I haven't read through hardly anything- but I agree wholeheartedly with this post.

I wouldn't leave a little baby with a sitter for a wedding, if it caused strife, so be it.


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## Elastagirl (May 24, 2005)

Jst a slight side bar...since I agree with your decision not to go!

When my cousin got married this summer, the invitation said, "no children." we brought ds, since he was the ring bearer, and the 6-year-old flower girl attended the reception as well. It was very awkward; I know there were people there who had left their kids at home and were probably more than a little miffed that they couldn't attend. In addition, my dh overheard the photographers talking and one complained, "Where the heck are all the kids? What am I going to photograph?" :LOL I cracked up...the photographers were used to having lots of cute kid antics to get great, memorable shots, and they only had two kids to draw from! It was fun to see lots of cute photos of ds on their website a few weeks after the wedding, but he would've had a lot more fun if there had been others (and I wouldn't have been so stressed making sure he was an "angel" the entire time!)

Good luck to you!


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten*
Her dh held the baby, I ran back and forth with her to the dressing room between photos and immediately before and after ceremony to help her nurse the baby - I'd unzip the dress while she held baby, I'd hold baby while she sat down with dress around her waist and bra off (not a lot of nursing strapless bras....) with a towel to keep the other breast from leaking on her dress! We died laughing the entire time. It was not easy (and still to this day we laugh when we look at the pix because she always says that each breast is bigger than her own head) but it was the friend's special day and my friend was the bigger person and let it be about HER, not the inconvenience/juggling it took for her to be there.

What a lovely story


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Okay I've read the whole thread now and I have a few things to say









-I think the OP's ILs are toxic people with many issues. I do agree that it might be nice if dh could go to his sisters' wedding (buy maybe not stay for too long) because it's a family obligation. I'm not an expert though so I could be wrong. I'd say that he certainly needs to set boundaries with his family of origin. So maybe he could explain to them that he will attend the wedding because he doesn't want to miss it but that the rest of his family can't make it and there should be no guilt trips attached to that, end of story.

-I wouldn't personally want a wedding without kids but I can understand how some people might.

-If one wants an adults only weddding , one should be willing to accomodate nursing babies and be perfectly understanding that some parents can and will not be separated from their kids and NO GUILT TRIPS or nastiness if someone can't come.


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## luckylady (Jul 9, 2003)

I say no small kids at ceremony (you can't blame her for not wanting her wedding interrupted by a crying baby) but at the reception fine - I think you were being reasonable - but she's the bride. I think kids make weddings more fun! I also did not got to a wedding when DD was a baby because the bride wanted to babies and we were nursing and DD was VERY VERY attached to only me. Oh well. You are right that b4 kids you just don;t get it.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I haven't read all the posts yet, but wanted to comment quickly.
I would just tell dh to go without me and the baby. To keep the peace, and also someday he might regret not seeing his sister get married.

While I do believe that she has a right to decide who to invite, it strikes me as odd that she won't make an exception. It's not like paying for an extra dinner or having a baby running around. I thought in regards to etiquette, nurslings don't really count, kwim?

And I think it's great that your dh is standing up for you two. But I would just tell my dh to go so we wouldn't have to hear about for the next 10 years.

Good luck!


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

I DO NOT attend weddings in which my children are not included.

They are boring!

Nothing is better than watching children celebrate and boogie the night away.







:


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Did this wedding happen yet?

If not, my suggestion is to stop talking about it with the Selfish bride and just show up at the wedding with the baby. Maybe not the ceremony, but def the reception. Hang out at a book store with the baby while dh goes to the ceremony.

I think that would first make her happy, and then when she sees the cute baby at the reception, she'll get all pissed, but what could she do? Make a scene as all the aunties coo over the baby?

But I do have evil side.


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## CountryMom2e (Apr 1, 2005)

We compromised at our wedding. A lot of our friends and family have kids, and we wanted an adult-only celebration. We were having a formal sit-down reception (that we were paying for) and had a budget for x people. If we had had a casual wedding reception, we probably would have invited everyone.

That being said, we also had some close family members (my brother, two sisters, DH's cousin) and some friends travelling from out of town for whom finding a sitter would be next to impossible. So we specifically invited those children, and arranged for kids' meals, a TV & VCR, and a few toys in a separate room upstairs. The kids were welcome at the reception, but it was nice when they got antsy or bored that they could go upstairs and play. I also invited my sister's MIL who offered to help watch the kids upstairs.

It worked out pretty well. SIL was nursing her son, and we had about 10 kids under the age of 5 at the party. We offered to invite one of my dearest friend's kids (she was a bridesmaid coming in from RI) - her response - no way! I want to enjoy the party and the kids will be more than happy with their auntie watching over them for the weekend.

I've since been to weddings and prefer not to bring our son. He is adorable and I love him but I have a much more enjoyable time as a grown-up chatting and spending time with family and friends. We even went so far as to bring MIL with us to an out-of-town wedding, she stayed in the hotel with her grandson, we went to the wedding, and I stopped back to nurse him periodically (the reception was at the hotel we stayed at).


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I just realized two things. First, after reading the rest of the posts, I think your IL's are








Secondly, this thread is really old.

Well, I can attest to the fact that babies don't take attention away from the marrying couple. Dh's college buddy brought his wife and their infant to our wedding (five years ago). I recently found out that the wife was, and still is, very annoyed that all of her dh's friends didn't make a huge fuss over the baby







Get over it already.

I can understand kids being left out if the couple has to pay for them. We paid for our own wedding and didn't include children, cause we could barely afford the adults. But I would have made exceptions if they were necessary, and I *did* make an adoring fuss over the infant that attended, but it was a momentary fuss. I was a little busy, ya know?


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## ETW (Feb 18, 2005)

I haven't read everything, but I have a story about wedding babysitters. DH and I recently attended a wedding where kids were not invited and the couple had arranged "qualified babysitting" at a home just down the street from the reception site. So I'm sure they thought they were being very accomodating. I was pretty annoyed, but the groom was a dear friend and luckily my mom (the only person we leave DS with) was able to make the trip with us and stayed at the babysitting site with him. No way I would have left him with strangers. Anyway, just as we were finishing dinner she called us to let us know that DS had woken up and needed me so we went rushing down the street. When we got there DS was fine and nursed, but the house was full of crying babies/toddlers. There were two sitters for maybe 10 children and everywhere you went in the house there was a little one crying his heart out. I grabbed DS and got out of there fast because I was about to start yelling at babysitters and picking up babies! I held him and nursed him and cried and promised we would never ever do that to him. Later when I heard parents checking on their kids the babysitters told them everything was fine and the next day all the other parents were telling each other what a great time their kids had while they were at the wedding.


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Didn't make the entire thread, so not sure if this was posted already ...

... but in Orthodox Jewish communities, babies are de riguer at weddings. Kids, too. After all, what's a marriage about? Creating a family unit. Kids are part of family units. How can they not be part of weddings?

And no, I don't mean "part" as in put them in the ceremony. Just meaning that of course they're welcome. You don't even have to put them on the invitation, it's just assumed that they're coming.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

Hi, Im the OP. I cannot believe this thread is still alive. I cant believe its been a year!
Ive been prompted by a few people to update so I will...

My sil ended up postponing the wedding a year because she couldnt make all the arrangements she wanted in time and the place was booked so it's going to be nov 5, 2005. My son will be about 20 months old then. We've had very little contact with SIL, and she moved out of state. We've been trying to have very little contact with my MIL but it's difficult. But nothing has changed between me and her, she is as horrible as ever.

So back to the wedding...
Theyve decided that he can go to the wedding with the understanding that any sort of disruption on his part will be followed by me rushing out with him. But he's pretty laid back anyway so I doubt he'll cause any trouble. Ive also been told that he *must* wear a tuxedo and not the cute little outfit I picked out for him. Ive lost the will to argue over such things.


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Ok, I am all for adult only weddings.

But ok'g your child, then "requiring" him to wear a tux is stupid.

I mean, do they even make tuxedos that little?


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetbaby3*
I mean, do they even make tuxedos that little?

Oh, ye$$, they $$$ure do!


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

This is one of my pet peeves of late.







When did weddings become such a kid-free zone? I had so much fun going with my parents to weddings when I was growing up? Anyway . . .

That being said - its the host/s party, so I believe the options are to go with no kids or to not go.

BTW -- I just had this experience 2 weekends ago -- wedding invite was clear - no kids -- I made "herculean efforts" to arrange for overnight childcare for all 4 of my kids b/c we had to travel (wedding was my cousin - DD to my favorite aunt - so had to go for aunt's sake) -- got to wedding and was SOOOOOOOOOOO mad to see 2 families totally blow off the clear "no kids" info on the invite. So I list that as another reason to adhere to host's requests -- others will, and very unfair circ when some do and some don't.


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## ebethmom (Jan 29, 2002)

Thanks for the update, Jokerama! Sorry to hear that the drama has been prolonged.

I think I would smile and nod "OK" about the stupid tuxedo requirement, then bring him in whatever outfit you see fit! At that point, what would they do? Call for security? They might make your life miserable after the fact, but they already do that anyway.

I'm glad you don't have to worry about leaving your ds. My brother and SIL are the best uncle and aunt, and they made sure that our 20 month old ds was invited to everything wedding related. That really helped, but making the day work was still tricky. I performed three pieces during the prelude, then hustled down from the balcony to act as a bridesmaid, then I played a piece during the ceremony.

We hired a sitter to stay with ds at my Mom's house during the ceremony, then the sitter drove ds to the church in time for pictures. The sitter watched ds during the reception so we could visit with friends and family. Ds had a blast! He only came to find me when it was time to nurse. That was a challenge in a bridesmaid's dress! I brought a cardigan, and just unzipped to the waist. Luckily, the women's lounge at the reception was just palatial. Got lots of funny looks, but one second cousin thought it was great and kept me company.

Best of luck! Are there any family members or friends there that you look forward to seeing?


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

So, this is an interesting one for ME, as my dh and I have just set the actual date of the actual wedding... next Oct. And we discussed this. We came up with, what I thought, was a good idea, and I'm interested in knowing what YOU think...

Prenna will be almost 2, then. All her cousins and buddies will be 18mos-6years. We're thinking of sending mini-invitations to her cousins and buddies, along with the invites to their parents... that say "Join me for a Wedding Party, while my mom and dad say their vows". In our family/community there are ample "child-wranglers". So, picture a few grown-ups herding the kiddos off to a nearby room, or tent, after we walk down the isle with a couple of them... to play, sing songs, draw a big Congrads card for the bride and groom, maybe an entertainer for 'em...whatever, while the ceremony goes on in piece. Then, for the recep, the kids are re-united with the group at large, for food, cake, music.

Most kids are appalled at having to sit thru things... we are thinking we'll be the"Cool" Aunt and Uncle... what do you think?


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Prenna -

I think that is totally cool! Great idea! However - I do think that those with kiddoos who are never or rarely with anyone other than a parent may not be willing to go without a parent. You'll have to think about your policy on kids who won't go alone -- is it OK for them to attend the ceremony with the parents? or are you going to ask a parent to please accompany their child to the kid activity in that instance and keep the ceremony kid free. To be clear - I'd include that info on the "kid invite". Totally cool idea though - I've never heard of it before.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Thanks for the tip, I'd not thought of that. For us, kids will be welcome at the saying of the vows, if they prefer not to go off to the party.

Interesting that in this discussion, and in the other one, the CHILD'S preference is not mentioned much.

I have ADHD, I had a HARD time sitting still for 5 minutes, much less a whole wedding. Same with my man. Which is what inspired the idea... our own childhood preferences!


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

I just went to a wedding last weekend and brought ds (18 mo.) Before the wedding day, my sis asked what we were doing with ds. I said we were bringing him. She asked if that was okay with my cousin (the one getting married.) I told her it didn't say anything on the invitation about not bringing him, and they know we have a baby, so we're bringing him. When we got to the wedding, we asked to be seated near the back in case we had to take ds out (which we did after about 30 seconds.)

If ds had not been welcome we would not have gone.


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