# I got in trouble for DS going "potty" outside school



## mattysmomma (May 21, 2005)

After picking DS (4yrs old) up at school, we usually stay at the school playground for another hour or so to hang out with his friends/ other moms. He only goes to pre-k from 7:30-10, so it's nice to have that extra transition time.

Well, today as soon as he was at the playground, he said he had to go potty and ran to the corner (behind a tree) and peed on the tree. A teacher happened to walk by and while I was loudly and clearly telling him, "We can go to the bathroom inside school, it's not ok to go out here. Tell me before you have to go", she looked at me disgusted and said "You know he can't do that, the principal doesn't allow that....and on and on lecturing how there's a bathrom inside...I replied politely, that I remind him not to wait until the last minute, and that he mustn't do it.

He's done it a few times before, and I guess, well, he's decided that's his spot He always waits until the last minute too. ...I don't encourage going potty outside, but boys are boys, and if there's no bathroom around, I will make sure it's in a discreet place...at least behind a tree. I do remind him afterwards that he can ask to go to the bathroom, and we can run back in...at first i wasn't sure if we could since they lock the school doors, but another parent told me it was ok.

So an hour later, still at the playground, that same teacher walks by again and gives me a nasty look, then 2 min. later the Asst Principal walks out...pulls me aside (the few other moms there all staring at me like ooooh your're in trouble), and gives me another lecture on how I can't allow my son to urinate outside, other kids play around the tree and it's dirty and unhygenic....I apologize and repeat myself again....she then tells me that from now on when I pick him up, I need to take him to the bathroom before going to the playground. She didn't suggest doing so, she basically was telling me how I need to parent... I said, ok, but then it would make sense for me to be able to pick him up at the gym and take him to the bathroom before going outside (since once he's out he's running off to the playground). She said no,because of security reasons, he will have to be sent out by the teacher the way they always do (parents must wait outside on the sidewalk), then I would have to walk down to the main door, ring the doorbell, then they will let us in to use the bathroom....ok well, you know how it is, you ask your dc if they have to go potty, they say no, then 10min later they have to go....so basically, I guess I'd have to just drag him to the bathroom, and not ask if he has to go. Then she said she was going to talk to his teacher about it, because I asked, don't they have a designated potty time? The bathroom is all the way down the hallway from the classroom, so the teacher has to take them altogether. So tomorrow I'll probably get a 3rd lecture from his teacher.

Ok, I'm sure I'm overreacting, and maybe I'm doing the wrong thing by not disciplining him more firmly about peeing outside, since he keeps doing it...I guess if he does it again, I should just tell him he's not allowed to stay at the park, and drag him to the car crying and screaming??? Any suggestions welcome on how to deal with this. I know it sounds silly, I think it is silly, but I guess I have broken the school rules and who knows, I could get sent to the principals office next time...grrr... just venting here.


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## GradysMom (Jan 7, 2007)

peeing outside isn't wrong.. but maybe not such a good idea where other kids play. can you put ti thim like that?

Is there another outside place near home, or your own backyard where he CAN pee outside... until he outgrows the urge.

4 is still young.

sounds like the school is just uncomfortabel with urine... can't blame them. I think they are trying to fix it...


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## Village Mama (Jul 22, 2004)

Dogs pee where kids play. Not that I think peeing near the playground is great.... just saying!!!... but... I have two young boys in a town without public bathrooms. We have peed on park trees and in alleyways. In the forest it is A-OK! I have heard moms embarrassed that thier boys have peed on the school grounds. You aren't the first mom to have to modify that behavior! It really sucks that you were shamed for it though.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I think if they want a change in behavior, they should make more of an effort to facilitate it. Like not







sending 4 y.o.s out the door away from the bathroom after who knows how long since the last potty break.


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

I let my DS pee outside at home all the time.







Of course, that doesn't make it appropriate for public places but I'm not gonna freak out if it happens!
Just sounds like teacher/principal have their panties in a bunch. He's only 4. Sheesh!


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I think my head would have exploded the _first_ time someone lectured me about an incident I had already handled.







:

Wow.

Did they think once he started you could stop him mid-stream?









It sounds to me like they make it extremely difficult for them to go to the bathroom, and he found a simple solution. Natural consequences for micromanaging things to death, don't you think?









I think if the teacher lectures you, you should have a response ready, something about them not responding to the needs of small children very well and maybe back it up with some cites about bladder infections from waiting too long to go. I would laugh if one of my dc's teachers lectured _me._ Talk about overstepping boundaries!


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

I will have to say that I am NOT a fan of peeing in public. Even in the woods there are rules about where you can urinate, not in the water supply, not where you are going to prep food etc.

IMO peeing should be done in its designated area, unless it is an ABSOLUTE emergency. Emergency don't really happen on playgrounds.

Maybe your boy likes peeing outside. I know I like going outside. I would rather go outside. In the appropriate area.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I can totally understand the school position I alos think they could have handled it with a lot more grace. I'd just try my best to figure out a way to help my son and move on from there comments at this time. Sorry you were harrassed so much.

Deanna


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mattysmomma* 
....ok well, you know how it is, you ask your dc if they have to go potty, they say no, then 10min later they have to go....so basically, I guess I'd have to just drag him to the bathroom, and not ask if he has to go. Then she said she was going to talk to his teacher about it, because I asked, don't they have a designated potty time?

We have certain rules here in the house. Before we go out somewhere everyone uses the bathroom and also before stories and bedtime at night everyone uses the potty. I don't know about the 'asking them if they have to go' thing. It may be that it just needs to be a new rule to use it as he has shown you pretty consistently he needs to go at that time. Potty before play in the park outside may need to be the new rule.

I'll bet if I didn't have the potty time rules in the house my kiddos would probably have accidents a lot and when we went out. I think maybe my DD's 5 and nearly 7 have wet the bed maybe twice since they were fully potty trained in their second year.

I know it may be a PITA, especially initially to do it. But he will accept it, and get used to it. I really personally feel the same way about pottying in a public place whether it's a boy or girl. Obviously accidents happen, but once you've noticed a trend, and that he thinks it's acceptable it's a good idea to prevent it. There are laws against public urination for reasons. And, I definitely think that the school is only trying to be responsible and respect what other parents likely would be upset about. I definitely would not like it if I found out that one of my DC's classmates was consistently peeing in an area they could play in.


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## ctdoula (Dec 26, 2002)

Honestly, I think that's pretty icky, and I really wouldn't want to play in a playground where kids are peeing here & there. And I'd about the least germ phobic person around. I used to keep a toddler potty in my car for such emergencies. Maybe you could put one in the trunk.


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## Staciemao (Feb 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
I think if they want a change in behavior, they should make more of an effort to facilitate it. Like not







sending 4 y.o.s out the door away from the bathroom after who knows how long since the last potty break.

Amen, sister. Plus, I'm pretty sure that pee is sterile. It's really not going to hurt anything or anyone for a 4 yo to urinate outside.


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## veggiemomma (Oct 21, 2004)

Wow, this seems a little high strung - he's only 4!

On the other hand, I don't suppose I would want my kid to put his hand on the tree where somebody peed.


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Well, I wouldn't be really psyched about my kids playing in pee, but I'm sure there are worse things.







:

My issue would be being corrected MULTIPLE times even AFTER I had already dealt with the situation. That would really piss me off.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

I think I'd frame it as a "school rules" thing. It's against the rules to pee outside at school....even if Mommy is here with you.

I'd hate to see all 300 kids peeing outside


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I think if there's a bathroom available, it's best to pee in a bathroom, instead of on the school playground.

Just take him to the bathroom after school. Why is that a big deal?

They probably overracted a bit, but, it's not that big of a hassle to stop at the bathroom before you go out to the playground.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy* 
Obviously accidents happen, but once you've noticed a trend, and that he thinks it's acceptable it's a good idea to prevent it. There are laws against public urination for reasons. And, I definitely think that the school is only trying to be responsible and respect what other parents likely would be upset about. I definitely would not like it if I found out that one of my DC's classmates was consistently peeing in an area they could play in.









I agree with this, and sorry, I side with the school. Telling him "not to do it next time" every single repeated time he does it, is not "handling it" at all. It's not like he did it once and you told him not to and made sure to take him to the restroom before the playground in the future. That would be "handling it," and I'd agree with you that they should stop harrassing you about 1 incident. You're saying though, that he does it repeatedly and every time you tell him, after he's started, not to do that. I think you need to make sure he pees before he goes to the playground, or take him home where he can pee in your yard. Or pull him out of school if its that big a deal to you, or bring a portable potty. Its not about if you think pee is sterile, its about societal rules and potentially laws. On school grounds, its entirely possible that you're breaking the law.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Unless your son has a bladder infection, his urine is completely sterile. It's more hygenic then touching a public door handle anyway. Besides, he's four, so peeing out side is like... the coolest thing ever!


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## Serenyd (Jan 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mattysmomma* 
she then tells me that from now on when I pick him up, I need to take him to the bathroom before going to the playground.

Why don't they take the kids to bathroom BEFORE they send them home with their parents? Doesn't that seem like the LOGICAL thing to do? I get so sick of power-tripping imbeciles running rampant! Jeez, what do you pay them for anyway? Peeing outside isn't that big of deal. When my brother was in preschool he peed on the playground, while standing on a piece of playground equipment, and he got some on another kid. Yeah, that was trip to principal for my mom. Don't feel bad. They are the ones that are making a big deal out of nothing, not you!


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
I agree with this, and sorry, I side with the school. Telling him "not to do it next time" every single repeated time he does it, is not "handling it" at all. It's not like he did it once and you told him not to and made sure to take him to the restroom before the playground in the future. That would be "handling it," and I'd agree with you that they should stop harrassing you about 1 incident. You're saying though, that he does it repeatedly and every time you tell him, after he's started, not to do that. I think you need to make sure he pees before he goes to the playground, or take him home where he can pee in your yard. Or pull him out of school if its that big a deal to you, or bring a portable potty. Its not about if you think pee is sterile, its about societal rules and potentially laws. On school grounds, its entirely possible that you're breaking the law.

They're dealing with 4 year olds who were very recently potty trained.

You'd think they would make bathrooms more accessible. All she can do is correct him once he's started to go, it's too late to do anything else.

If it's such a big deal to them, they should make it easier for him to take a bathroom break earlier, while continuing to correct him.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I would worry that if he has made this a habit, he may try it while he is at school under the teacher's supervision. If that were to happen, I imagine it would be handled as a discipline issue, and very well could result in your child feeling shamed. It also sounds like you are there playing during school hours, and it honestly surprises me that you are permitted to hang around and play after he is dissmissed. Are there no other classes using the playground during that time? I can't even imagine the drama that would result if other children saw him, or imitated him.

I understand that the whole experience was embarassing for you. I can understand though, that from the school's POV -- you should be able to teach your child not to pee on the playground.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Um, ew. Peeing on the playground is not cool and I agree that you should take your child to the potty before going out to the playground. And yes the school could do that to, but since they won't, you should.


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## lovemyfamily6 (Dec 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy* 
We have certain rules here in the house. Before we go out somewhere everyone uses the bathroom and also before stories and bedtime at night everyone uses the potty. I don't know about the 'asking them if they have to go' thing. It may be that it just needs to be a new rule to use it as he has shown you pretty consistently he needs to go at that time. Potty before play in the park outside may need to be the new rule.

Yep, we do that too. I learned pretty quickly that by asking "Do you need to go to the bathroom?" it almost always got a "no" in response. Now I say "We're getting ready to leave. Time for everyone to try to go to the bathroom." You can't make them go, but you *can* not do the fun thing until they try.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
I agree with this, and sorry, I side with the school. Telling him "not to do it next time" every single repeated time he does it, is not "handling it" at all. It's not like he did it once and you told him not to and made sure to take him to the restroom before the playground in the future. That would be "handling it," and I'd agree with you that they should stop harrassing you about 1 incident. You're saying though, that he does it repeatedly and every time you tell him, after he's started, not to do that. I think you need to make sure he pees before he goes to the playground, or take him home where he can pee in your yard. Or pull him out of school if its that big a deal to you, or bring a portable potty. Its not about if you think pee is sterile, its about societal rules and potentially laws. On school grounds, its entirely possible that you're breaking the law.









: I agree with this.

Also, I disagree in your OP that it's because "boys will be boys". I'm the mom of four boys and none of them have ever peed outside. I believe the toilet is the appropriate place to go to the bathroom, for a potty trained child and excluding accidents, of course. If you want to let him pee outside at your house, more power to you, but I think you should be respectful of other people in public when it comes to urinating. It's not a "need" of a child to pee outdoors (I would guess he simply wants to go play right away and not make a pesky trip to the restroom) and there's no harm in teaching and enforcing rules that others have set for their property.


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## MommaShark (Oct 23, 2007)

We live in the rural part of Northern CA and kids always pee on the tree at playgroup - now I teach preschool and the kids I know who need reminders get them and I take them but if a kid peed outside (which even the girls do here) - it wouldn't be a big deal - it's sterile!!!! Now - if you were to send your child with no coat when it's snowing (today) and send a sugar laden snack and lunch - I would maybe say something - but peeing outside - come on!


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## Lemon Juice (Jun 6, 2005)

I would have been kicked out of that school a loooong time ago! I have 3 boys (6, 5, 4) and they pee outside all the time.

Shoot...dd potty trained in Oregon...she pees the grass herself and gets a round of applause for doing so







It was the norm there. Tons of babies EC'ing in the grass! At parks and outings..find a place away from other where no one is and pee. I loved living in Oregon









They do this here (east coast) now and I know it's not the norm. We don't care what other adults think. We will try to find a potty first (if they don't whip it out and go right after we get out of the car...







) and for some reason there are not many public restrooms here







So they go outside. Dd does too.


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## beka1977 (Aug 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
I agree with this, and sorry, I side with the school. Telling him "not to do it next time" every single repeated time he does it, is not "handling it" at all. It's not like he did it once and you told him not to and made sure to take him to the restroom before the playground in the future. That would be "handling it," and I'd agree with you that they should stop harrassing you about 1 incident. You're saying though, that he does it repeatedly and every time you tell him, after he's started, not to do that. I think you need to make sure he pees before he goes to the playground, or take him home where he can pee in your yard. Or pull him out of school if its that big a deal to you, or bring a portable potty. Its not about if you think pee is sterile, its about societal rules and potentially laws. On school grounds, its entirely possible that you're breaking the law.









:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovemyfamily6* 
Yep, we do that too. I learned pretty quickly that by asking "Do you need to go to the bathroom?" it almost always got a "no" in response. Now I say "We're getting ready to leave. Time for everyone to try to go to the bathroom." You can't make them go, but you *can* not do the fun thing until they try.








: I agree with this.

Also, I disagree in your OP that it's because "boys will be boys". I'm the mom of four boys and none of them have ever peed outside. I believe the toilet is the appropriate place to go to the bathroom, for a potty trained child and excluding accidents, of course. If you want to let him pee outside at your house, more power to you, but I think you should be respectful of other people in public when it comes to urinating. It's not a "need" of a child to pee outdoors (I would guess he simply wants to go play right away and not make a pesky trip to the restroom) and there's no harm in teaching and enforcing rules that others have set for their property.









:


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

It's only sterile as it leaves the body, then it's an ideal medium for bacterial growth, YUCK


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Peeing outside is not a big deal (okay, maybe this is because I live in a rural area...)

BUT the school is perfectly within their rights to insist that kids not pee outside on school property.

The school *should* have some degree of kindness/empathy and take any one of the OP's several suggestions about how to help with more potty time.

BUT, since they evidently don't, the OP should go through the whole rigaramole of getting back into the building and using the bathroom before the kid gets to go to the playground at all.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

I wanted to add:

I think it's nice that you're allowed to stay and play. Here it's closed campus. You have to leave if your classes are over. The school becomes public/park 30min after classes/events are over. Then and only then can the public, or kids that are out of school for the day, play on the playground.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
I wanted to add:

I think it's nice that you're allowed to stay and play. Here it's closed campus. You have to leave if your classes are over. The school becomes public/park 30min after classes/events are over. Then and only then can the public, or kids that are out of school for the day, play on the playground.

Ours are shut after school hours, you cannot stay and play, and they don't re-open either. I suspect behavior just like the OP was taking place, and rough housing, and they were probably worried about property damage, clean up, and liability. So now no one can use it.


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## lioralourie (Aug 22, 2004)

haaa haaa heee heee I love some of these reponses!!!!!

I live in Beijing, China, and we do this ALL the time here--Everyone does--but kids especially!

If it's grass, it's fair game! It evaporates and sinks in SO quickly...


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

If he has done this a few times why don't you make sure to stop at the washroom on the way out of the building at the end of his day there.

It would be unrealistic to expect the teacher to have every student go to the washroom at the end of each day since the program only lasts for 2 1/2 hours.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I'm the mom of an almost 5-yo boy who has never peed outside. And I don't like "boys will be boys" to explain/excuse things like this, anymore than I like it used to explain/excuse violent or aggressive play. Making sure your child has stopped to go to the bathroom if they haven't in a while (whether or not they think they have to), before you go somewhere where you know there will not be bathroom access in a public space, is not asking much, IMO.

I would agree though that the school could make it easier on you to get him to the bathroom before playing outside. I'd try to push that angle were I you.

I agree with the PP who said that going to the bathroom is just a built in part of activity transitions for us, for ALL of us, so it's not a matter of asking, it's just what gets done. I also don't get why peeing outside is a "need"...or even fun.







.


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

Ok, I don't have a problem so much with the pee itself (as long as it's not wear other kids play), but that it not your property and I do think that he needs to be taught to respect it if that's the rules. I really don't think it's too much to ask that he makes a bathroom trip before going to play.

I do think they were out of line lecturing you, but I don't think a polite explaining of the rules was out of line. If they were rude with you, that does need to be dealt with along with the fact that they may not be giving these kids frequent enough bathroom breaks.


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## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

I agree with the others who have said the school may not have handled it well, but they are within their rights to ask you not to let DS pee on the grounds. That seems like a pretty reasonable request to me. Especially since toilets are readily available.


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## veggiemomma (Oct 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovemyfamily6* 
Also, I disagree in your OP that it's because "boys will be boys". I'm the mom of four boys and none of them have ever peed outside.

I believe you.


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## vegmom (Jul 23, 2003)

As a mom who has done the diaper free baby thing, I have had my kids pee outside. But it was when they were babies and for some reason that seemed ok. Even when my friend had her baby poop behind a tree in a park (it was breast milk poop) that seemed ok too. But for some reason as kids get older it seems less hygenic. I would feel totally grossed out by a 4y.o. pooping behind a tree.

And this did happen when we were at a friends house and their 4y.o. ds pooped in their yard. My dd came running and almost stepped in it. Gross.

They also came over to our house and their 4y.o. ds peed off my deck. I was grossed out. It is natural but... it was in my yard and I had problems with that.

The school has to regulate bathroom visits. Or else they will have a school yard that filled with excrement. One rule fits all kinda thing.


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## straighthaircurly (Dec 17, 2005)

I have not read all the responses and maybe I am missing something here but why doesn't the school staff have a bathroom break for the kids right before they go outside. That seems pretty obvious to me. And secondly if they are letting you back in the school to take him to the potty it seems silly that they won't let you in the school prior to that to take him to the potty. FWIW I would never have my child at a school or daycare that didn't let me come in the school to get my child whenever I want. That just seems weird to me.


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## hellyaellen (Nov 8, 2005)

i admit i haven't read all the replies, but i would suggest a potty break no earlier than 20 minutes before schoo llets out........ i'm sure there are other kids who could use one last potty break before heading out the door


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
How about by making sure that he uses the restroom before going out to the playground for an hour?

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.... or something to that effect anyway.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *straighthaircurly* 
I have not read all the responses and maybe I am missing something here but why doesn't the school staff have a bathroom break for the kids right before they go outside. That seems pretty obvious to me. And secondly if they are letting you back in the school to take him to the potty it seems silly that they won't let you in the school prior to that to take him to the potty. FWIW I would never have my child at a school or daycare that didn't let me come in the school to get my child whenever I want. That just seems weird to me.

That's what I'm saying. They seem to set him up for failure. Then they dress mom down several times? I would be annoyed as all heck, to put it mildly.

They seem unnecessarily authoritarian for my taste. Nonsense rules for the sake of having rules. Makes no sense.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *straighthaircurly* 
FWIW I would never have my child at a school or daycare that didn't let me come in the school to get my child whenever I want. That just seems weird to me.

Not so much... They need to have a way of doing things where it comes to children being picked up that makes it as hard as possible for a stranger to walk in to a school yard and walk out with a child that's not theirs.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *straighthaircurly* 
I have not read all the responses and maybe I am missing something here but why doesn't the school staff have a bathroom break for the kids right before they go outside.

When the kids leave to go outside they are finished for the day, this isn't a scheduled break like recess. I figured that since school is only 2 1/2 hours that a bathroom break for the whole class (depending on the number of kids in the class) could take a fair amount of time and 2 1/2 hours isn't long as it is.


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## *LoveBugMama* (Aug 2, 2003)

I`m sorry you felt harassed.









Personally, I have no problem with small kids peeing outside. But, I feel there is a difference between peeing in the woods/outside in your own garden and on the playground outside school. ANd I totally understand that a school would like to have rules about kids not peeing outside. What I think is a little wrong, is that they don`t seem to follow that rule up with pottybreaks before going outside, with having a toilet nearby etc.

You said that you counld`t do more than telling him that it`S not ok. I ofcourse haven`t been in your exact situation, so I totally believe you did the best you could







But, what about stopping him BEFORE he starts to go? Does he not tell you that he needs to be? Does he not stand in a place where you can see him starting to pull down his pants?

I hope the school stops lecturing you about this, and starts providing more regular pottybraks before going out instead.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Humm I only have one girl so maybe I'm not fully understanding but..
THe question doesn't seem to be (to me) is it weird boys pee outside. IMHO well no
I also think most will agree the school went a bit overboard in how they talked to you
Others will alos agree that it would be nice if the school took them potty before going outside.... but
The school rule isn't a horrible one, HAving you take him back inside to potty doesn't seem unreasonable.

FWIW when mine was in preschool (about 3 hours) when the students first arrived they did potty time many including my DD were not potty trained yet. WHen it was time to go the teacher woud ask who needs to go potty and the assistant would take those the rest would head outside. Kids were also allowed free acess through the day. Accidents of course still happened but "deleberate" outside peeing didn't (or was stopped quickly)

Deanna


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
How, by holding his penis between your fingers so it doesn't come out? C'mon. You cannot control other peoples actions. Haven t we learned this, as parents yet? I sure have! We can try and manipulate them into doing whatever we tell them to, but we cant really exercise control over them. (Well not without a cage, collar and leash anyways.)

By knowing that he seems to need to do this everyday and taking him to the bathroom before hand......by instilling consequences (If you aren't going to follow the school's playground rules we have to go straight home after school. We can't stay if we don't follow the rules.)

It's actually VERY easy. I do this with 8 kids (only 2 are mine) and none of them would do this more than once or twice before I clued in and changed the routine to suit their needs.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
How about by making sure that he uses the restroom before going out to the playground for an hour? Since he has done this more than once he obvoiusly needs to go to the bathroom after school. If mom just makes sure he uses the washroom before leaving the buiilding problem. Also, if you see him starting to disrobe to pee then time to grab him and run to the washroom.

She can't. "Running to the washroom" means going to the door of the school, ringing the bell, waiting for someone to come, probably checking in with the office even though an authorized school person is right there and could supervise the bathroom trip--and likely changing her son's pants and a big puddle on the school floor.

Once when the bus was stopped at the mall for a few minutes as usual, a mom asked if there'd be time to take her son, ~4 y.o, off to go pee in the bushes. The driver said "sure." All 10 women of various ages and walks of life waiting for the bus to head out smiled indulgently and there were several "poor little guy" "yeah it's tough to be young." sorts of remarks. None of us cared--not even the ones who didn't have kids yet.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.... or something to that effect anyway.

"DS, you need to try to pee or we have to go home. It's against the rules to pee outside at school."

Unless he's JUST gone potty, there is always some in there to squeeze out.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
She can't. "Running to the washroom" means going to the door of the school, ringing the bell, waiting for someone to come, probably checking in with the office even though an authorized school person is right there and could supervise the bathroom trip--and likely changing her son's pants and a big puddle on the school floor.

.

Then it sounds like they need to go home. That is a VERY logical consequence of being unable to follow the school's playground rules. The school could suspend him for it.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
Then it sounds like they need to go home. That is a VERY logical consequence of being unable to follow the school's playground rules. The school could suspend him for it.









Right, they need to follow the schools' rules and there have been some excellent suggestions on how to do so. I was just pointing out that the blithe "just take him to the bathroom" suggestions are ignoring the realities of the situation.

(And the teacher was still a UAV.)


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
*She can't.* "Running to the washroom" means going to the door of the school, ringing the bell, waiting for someone to come, probably checking in with the office even though an authorized school person is right there and could supervise the bathroom trip--and likely changing her son's pants and a big puddle on the school floor.

She can, she just chooses not to due to the hassle involved. Since this has been a repeated problem he either needs to go to the bathroom immediately at the end of the day, even if that does mean he has to walk to the main entrance with mom to be buzzed into the building or he needs to understand that if the acidents continue to happen that they will have to go home right after school because going to the bathroom is not allowed.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
"DS, you need to try to pee or we have to go home. It's against the rules to pee outside at school."

Unless he's JUST gone potty, there is always some in there to squeeze out.

Um, you can talk all you want, but unless you strap him to the potty until he can't hold it anymore, you can't force a child to go...


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## OakBerry (May 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
How about by making sure that he uses the restroom before going out to the playground for an hour? Since he has done this more than once he obvoiusly needs to go to the bathroom after school. If mom just makes sure he uses the washroom before leaving the buiilding problem. Also, if you see him starting to disrobe to pee then time to grab him and run to the washroom. Regardless, since the school has told her that peeing on the playground is not acceptable she either needs to get him to go before playing or needs to leave earleir to prevent further accidents.

I have 2 daughters (and yes, girls pee as regularly as boys do) and neither have ever peed on the playground because we couldn't make it to the bathroom.


I agree with this. At 4 my ds would always deny having to pee. I stopped asking, and simply led him to the bathroom and told him we would be able to continue our mission once he was done.

I also carried a rubbermaid one liter bottle with a tight lid in the car (still do) for pee emergencies. That way if he has to pee we can just go to the car and nobody is the wiser. The only problem is if I forget to clean it out..


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## mmace (Feb 12, 2002)

Maybe I missed it, but I am picturing your son at Pre-K at a public elementary school. Is that right? (I'm thinking this way because of the school hours, multiple teachers, principal and assistant principal, mention of their being a "main office" and a gym, dismissal procedures...)

Anyway, if that is the case - here's my thought - - - yes, a four year old Pre-K student peeing outside isn't all that big a deal to most people on here. But what about the six year old first grader? The ten year old fourth grader? Where should the line be drawn?

Again, I am basing my reply on this being an elementary school with a Pre-K program, if I'm wrong, feel free to ignore my reply!


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Um, you can talk all you want, but unless you strap him to the potty until he can't hold it anymore, you can't force a child to go...

No, but he's old enough to understand that refusing to go potty means going home instead of playing.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
No, but he's old enough to understand that refusing to go potty means going home instead of playing.

I think I would modify this to refusing to try, but otherwise I think its the right response.

The school over-reacted in this case, yes. And any further comments should be answered with "Please, I've already discussed this with X" and moving on.

But the rule is reasonable. Even if it weren't, this is private property and we still have to follow rules even if we don't agree with them. The solution is clearly in preventing the child from needing to pee on the tree. That means finding a proactive solution, the most obvious of which is to require the child to try to pee before playing. And if child still uses tree rather than asking for the restroom, then playground play is should be over for the day and possibly for the next day as well.


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## bright_eyes (Dec 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ctdoula* 
Honestly, I think that's pretty icky, and I really wouldn't want to play in a playground where kids are peeing here & there. And I'd about the least germ phobic person around. I used to keep a toddler potty in my car for such emergencies. Maybe you could put one in the trunk.

I hope this doesn't seem like a silly question, but where do you put the pee, once they've gone in the potty that you keep in your car???


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## NettleTea (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mattysmomma* 
Ok, I'm sure I'm overreacting

Sounds to me like it is them doing the "overreacting", not you.


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## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bright_eyes* 
I hope this doesn't seem like a silly question, but where do you put the pee, once they've gone in the potty that you keep in your car???


I do this too. I dump the pee or poop and any dirty wipes in the protected garbage can, the same one that I see moms using for diapers, dogwalkers using for bags of dog poop, etc.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bright_eyes* 
I hope this doesn't seem like a silly question, but where do you put the pee, once they've gone in the potty that you keep in your car???

I'd probably go water a tree with it, but then you'd be in trouble all over again.









(you take it home and dump it in the toilet







)


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Urine makes a good fertalizer... They should be thanking him for taking such good care of the tree!

My opinion is that if they make it incredibly difficult and risky for a young child to use the bathroom (and having to wait with a full bladder to be let in is just asking for an accident, he'll probably end up going out side anyway only not behind a tree), they really can't expect every student to beable to make it inside in time.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
My opinion is that if they make it incredibly difficult and risky for a young child to use the bathroom (and having to wait with a full bladder to be let in is just asking for an accident, he'll probably end up going out side anyway only not behind a tree), they really can't expect every student to beable to make it inside in time.

What exactly is difficult and risky about the mom walking the child to the office door to be let in? I have found that little kids will generally go at least a little when sat on the potty. If going into the building is too much of a hassle and if it so risky to the child to wait for a few minutes with a full bladder then maybe he should be taken home after school until he is better able to let his mom know when he has to go to the bathroom.

The bottom line is that the school has stated that they do not want children going to the bathroom on the playground and they have that right to make such a rule. The OP really has 2 choices, take her child into the building every day after picking him up to take him to the bathroom so that he can play without worry after school or teach the child that if he indeed does go to the bathroom outside on the playground again that the result will be that they leave immediately for home with trips to the playground restricted in the future until he is able to understand that the playground is not an acceptable washroom.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I think I'd really just work the teachers to let you in the school by his room to take him to the bathroom near their class.

"Hi teacher, I was wondering since X needs to go to the bathroom so often while we're on the playground after school, can I just pick him up at the door and then scoot in to the bathroom with him so we don't have to walk all the way around the building and have to do the sign in process? I'd really appreciate it." Said with a dazzling smile. - You're not asking to pick him up in a different spot, you're just asking to get him at the door, walk back in to the bathroom, and then walk back out, together. I'd try for that, personally. If not that, then I'd get a portable potty for my car, or I'd walk around the school and take him to the bathroom, every time.


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## widemouthedfrog (Mar 9, 2006)

We also ec'ed part time and I work outdoors, so dd and I have no problems using trees as potties.

That said, I choose a place that people aren't going to be touching in the near future. Even if pee is sterile, I just don't want to think about people touching other peoples' pee all of the time. A playground is a place that people will likely touch.

I'd totally do the "pee in a bottle" as backup. And try to take him to the washroom after class, even if it's a hassle. I'd also try to get the teachers to take the kids on a bathroom break before they go. I know my dd would do poorly in that situation because like many preschoolers, she tends to hold it until the last minute...and suffered a UTI because of it. So we are focusing on NOT holding it.

One trick I've learned with her is NOT to ask if she needs to pee, but to ask her to check her body and see if she is holding it. We talk about how it is uncomfortable to hold it. I also say that I need to pee if she hasn't gone in a while, and when I head to the washroom she miraculously needs to go too.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
My opinion is that if they make it incredibly difficult and risky for a young child to use the bathroom (and having to wait with a full bladder to be let in is just asking for an accident, he'll probably end up going out side anyway only not behind a tree), they really can't expect every student to beable to make it inside in time.

We're not talking about a kid who had an accident or two on the playgroung. We're talking about a kid who has developed a habit of peeing on the school playground. We're also not talking about a place and time where the child or the parent has a definitive right to be. It's after hours, the school can close the playground, they can oust the family, once or forever. They can probably suspend the kid. It really doesn't matter what the mother or any of you think of the school's decision or rules. There still are only 2 choices--Take the child out of school; or Follow the school's rules by changing the kids routine and habit.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
We're not talking about a kid who had an accident or two on the playgroung. We're talking about a kid who has developed a habit of peeing on the school playground. We're also not talking about a place and time where the child or the parent has a definitive right to be. It's after hours, the school can close the playground, they can oust the family, once or forever. They can probably suspend the kid. It really doesn't matter what the mother or any of you think of the school's decision or rules. There still are only 2 choices--Take the child out of school; or Follow the school's rules by changing the kids routine and habit.

No we're dealing with a boy who's done it "a few times before". That is hardly a habit. It's not like he'd doing it everyday, or that he _only_ goes in the school yard. A few times tells me that theres anothing factor influencing, and my suspicion is that having to be let into the school by someone else to use the bathroom is probably a part of that... If they don't want a 4 year old to pee in the playground after hours they need to have a more direct route to the toilet. I can promise you he is not the only four year old who waits till the last minute. Any school run by someone with half a brain knows that when you gotta go, you gotta go and someone who's more recently mastered using the toilet can't wait around for someone to let them in the door.

Sorry but I _do_ think the school is partially responsible.


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

But the thing is, schools now have to be super super careful, almost anal, about safety. I completely understand why they require everyone to enter by the same main doors.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

I can understand that, but if there are people in there to let you in, then can't they leave that one door unlocked so they see everyone who comes in? Is their only two choices really having all the doors locked or none of the doors locked?


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

My oldest is hs'd now, but when she attended a ps the only way in was though the front main doors near the front office, all other doors were locked (you could open them from the inside, but not from the outside). I completely undertsand why they did it that way and I would actually have felt uncomfortable if people could just enter in the side doors at anytime.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

But my understanding is in this situation, getting into the school through any door requires waiting for someone to let you in.


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

I'm not sure the set up of the school, but I'm sure it's for security reasons which really outweigh this, imo.
Maybe a portable potty wouldn't be a bad idea.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Sorry but I _do_ think the school is partially responsible.

How is the school at all responsible for something that is happening after school hours have ended for the day for this child?


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
But my understanding is in this situation, getting into the school through any door requires waiting for someone to let you in.

This is how you enter my DD's school - you ring the bell at the main door and the secrtetary buzzes you in - takes all of a few seconds to enter. If school is in session I doubt that the office would leave anyone standing there for very long.


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## triscuitsmom (Jan 11, 2007)

I don't really have an opinion that hasn't already been covered in some form or another on the whole "issue" if that's the word you want to use of a four year old peeing outside.

I am really truly seriously confused though by all of the people who are truly grossed out by the thought of this. We are talking about an outside playground right? And he wasn't on equiptment, he was behind a tree right?

Seriously? I absolutely 100% guarantee there is already pee AND poop there. Dogs, cats, chipmunks, squirrils, rats, mice, rabbits, birds... (some of these might not apply due to region but you get my point).

And then you have the toddlers... the ones that leak out of their diapers (or are already diaper free but not potty learned) or who have an accident outside when they are potty learned. It's not different suddenly in terms of actual biological substance wise for it to be a 1, 2 or 3 year old and a 4 year old.

Call the discipline issue what you will... but the grossness factor on the bodily fluid that some people are displaying is way misplaced IMO. Your kids are touching worse if they are playing outside in the dirt or touching trees etc.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
How is the school at all responsible for something that is happening after school hours have ended for the day for this child?

They won't let the parents come in first.

They apparently won't take the kids to the bathroom right before it's time to leave if they need to go, I _think_ that's what I got from the OP.

If the OP's son needs to go, he has to wait until they all go outside, then he and mom troop back inside after everyone has exited the building.

That's just dumb. They are setting up the situation where he has to wait to go, when they could just let him go _before he leaves,_ it seems to me. Or, if they're going to let moms come back inside anyway, why not let them in beforehand? The whole reasoning is just silly. They make him wait until he has to go, then they get upset when he _has_ to go.







:

How can they be 100% sure he can make it back inside?


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
If the OP's son needs to go, he has to wait until they all go outside, then he and mom troop back inside after everyone has exited the building.

Where did it say in the OP's posts that her son was not allowed to go to t he bathroom while at school? I do recall her saying that the bathroom was down the hall but I have a hard time believing that the teacher does not allow students to go to the bathroom during the 2 1/2 hours that they are at school. She also stated that it was a while after they had been outside that he did this so he didn't come out of the building doing the pee pee dance like I have seen my girls do on occasion.

Once her son has left the building he is her responsibility - since he had done this a few times I think that either she needs to walk him back into the building to make sure he goes to the bathroom before going to the playground or take him home sooner. The school has made it very clear that using the playground as a washroom is unacceptable so she either has to find a way to get him to go to the bathroom before playing or risk the school saying that the playground is off limits to anyone who is not in class during the school day.


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *triscuitsmom* 
Call the discipline issue what you will... but the grossness factor on the bodily fluid that some people are displaying is way misplaced IMO. Your kids are touching worse if they are playing outside in the dirt or touching trees etc.

Years ago i saw a news special about germs in public spaces. They had tested surfaces of grocery carts, bus seats & hold bars, taxi seats & doors, stair rails and elevator buttons, etc. Anyway, it was truly gross b'c EVERY area that was tested came back with a huge amount of fecal bacteria and a variety of other lovelies.

My sisters and I now whisper "feces" and laugh with each other whenever using public spaces and we're touching the tested spots. Soooo nasty.

Oops, forgot to address the OP! I don't have a problem with kids peeing outdoors in an emergency. Since it's a strict school policy, I'd try what pp's have said about getting them to let him use the toilet before your play session. Or change schools if you really disagree.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *triscuitsmom* 
Seriously? I absolutely 100% guarantee there is already pee AND poop there. Dogs, cats, chipmunks, squirrils, rats, mice, rabbits, birds... (some of these might not apply due to region but you get my point).

And then you have the toddlers... the ones that leak out of their diapers (or are already diaper free but not potty learned) or who have an accident outside when they are potty learned. It's not different suddenly in terms of actual biological substance wise for it to be a 1, 2 or 3 year old and a 4 year old.

Call the discipline issue what you will... but the grossness factor on the bodily fluid that some people are displaying is way misplaced IMO. Your kids are touching worse if they are playing outside in the dirt or touching trees etc.

Its a preschool playground. Reasonable to assume its fenced. So, no dogs. Probably not that many wild small things either -- what rabbit in its right mind would make a home in a preschool playground? Preschool, so no toddlers. So I'm not sure how much sense that argument makes.

Regardless, its completely beside the point. The school has the right to make a rule. It could be "no red underwear". Families have a choice -- follow the rule or leave or try to change the rule.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Lets see, squirrels and chipmunks and cats (notorious for using dirt areas as a litter box) can all get over a fence and last time I checked, there are plenty of preschoolers who have younger siblings, no doubt there when mommy goes to pick up her kid from school.

OK, only semi-off topic. The University I went to had a rule, no smoking with in 7.5 meters of a doorway... They had three ashtrays two of them where about 2 meters from a door. Is it my fault I have to break the rules to put out a cigarette or the schools?

The reason I ask, is because it's pretty much the same situation. They have set up a proceedure that pretty much promises that a child at some point will be caught in a situation where they have to break the rule. Because it's either pee behind a tree on the playground, or pee in their pants on the playground. As for potty breaks during the school time, I'm pretty sure they don't let a preschool wander the halls by himself, which means if the teachers don't arranged for a child or the children to be taken to the bathroom right before the end of class, the child is stuck. He has to wait until mom comes and everyone else leaves and then is let back in.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
They have set up a proceedure that pretty much promises that a child at some point will be caught in a situation where they have to break the rule. Because it's either pee behind a tree on the playground, or pee in their pants on the playground.

The school is not responsible for what happens with the child's potty breaks once he is dismissed from school at the end of each day - at that moment responsibility for the child switches back to the mom/dad/guardian so if there is any rule breaking that takes place it is not the fault of the school but the person responsible for the child.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
Where did it say in the OP's posts that her son was not allowed to go to t he bathroom while at school? I do recall her saying that the bathroom was down the hall but I have a hard time believing that the teacher does not allow students to go to the bathroom during the 2 1/2 hours that they are at school. She also stated that it was a while after they had been outside that he did this so he didn't come out of the building doing the pee pee dance like I have seen my girls do on occasion.


from the OP

_I said, ok, but then it would make sense for me to be able to pick him up at the gym and take him to the bathroom before going outside (since once he's out he's running off to the playground). She said no,because of security reasons, he will have to be sent out by the teacher the way they always do (parents must wait outside on the sidewalk), then I would have to walk down to the main door, ring the doorbell, then they will let us in to use the bathroom....ok well, you know how it is, you ask your dc if they have to go potty, they say no, then 10min later they have to go....so basically, I guess I'd have to just drag him to the bathroom, and not ask if he has to go. Then she said she was going to talk to his teacher about it, because *I asked, don't they have a designated potty time? The bathroom is all the way down the hallway from the classroom, so the teacher has to take them altogether.* So tomorrow I'll probably get a 3rd lecture from his teacher._

That pretty much tells me the teacher takes the children to pee _at her convenience._







: It truly sounds to me like the teacher and administrators are UAVs and are getting a taste of natural consequences for trying to schedule bladder function.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
The school is not responsible for what happens with the child's potty breaks once he is dismissed from school at the end of each day - at that moment responsibility for the child switches back to the mom/dad/guardian so if there is any rule breaking that takes place it is not the fault of the school but the person responsible for the child.

So the school doesn't have to take any responsability towards make sure their rules are able to be followed? Might as well make a rule your not allowed to breath and punish students for that. If there's reasonable belief that at some point a situation will arise that prevents someone from following the rule, the school needs to take steps to fix that. You can't blame the OP or her son for problems arising from the way the school operates.


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## amma_mama (May 20, 2008)

I agree with the PPs that since it is school property, they can make the rules, no matter how many people think it is OK to pee outside ona regular basis (versus an unexpected or emeergency situation). OP knows that her son may have to go potty after school, based on his past behavior. It is up to her to take him in to the school to go to the potty BEFORE hitting the playground (then no worries about him holding it in while somebody unlocks the door). They are permitted to stay on the playground after class, which is nice for the parents and kids. If they want to stay, they need to respect the rules, which are reasonable. If 30 kids peed on the playground everyday, can anybody honestly say that the school would not have a sanitation issue?

If it is too much trouble for the OP to attend to her son's needs in a way that does not infringe on others, then she needs to find another solution - a bottle, a portable potty, or a playground where peeing is OK (don't think that there are any except a dog park).

Sorry folks, urine may be sterile, but that does not translate to sanitary. Have you not ever smelled an area that was frequented by urinators? Yuck! The world is not your toilet.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Urine is sterile and has been used as antiseptics and to treat verious other ailments over the centuries. Want OP to take her kid to the bathroom after school, then make it so she can take her kid to the bathroom after school instead of standing outside until everyone is gone.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Exactly. Like I said before, they set him up for failure, then they get mad about it. Silly and smacks of control for the sake of control. Not nice.







:


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Urine is sterile and has been used as antiseptics and to treat verious other ailments over the centuries. Want OP to take her kid to the bathroom after school, then make it so she can take her kid to the bathroom after school instead of standing outside until everyone is gone.

Where did it say that she had to stand outside until everyone is gone?All she said was that to use the washroom she had to walk around to the main entrance and ring to be let in the school - from her own words she only has to wait until her son walks out of the building with his class before she can walk to the main entrance to use thh washroom - no mention of having to wait for everyone else to leave.

It really doesn't matter if urine is sterile or not, the school has stated on several occasions that they do not allow children to go to the bathroom on the playground.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
Where did it say that she had to stand outside until everyone is gone?All she said was that to use the washroom she had to walk around to the main entrance and ring to be let in the school - from her own words she only has to wait until her son walks out of the building with his class before she can walk to the main entrance to use thh washroom - no mention of having to wait for everyone else to leave.

It really doesn't matter if urine is sterile or not, the school has stated on several occasions that they do not allow children to go to the bathroom on the playground.

It's a ridiculous amount of back and forth. Why? You would think they would want to make it _easier_ for children to use the bathroom.

But then, I used to live in the SF Bay Area, where the entire city smelled like a urinal, but there were even restaurants that didn't have restrooms for customers to use! As I told the manager at a McDonalds in downtown SF one day _it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if you feed people in your restaurant and don't offer a bathroom, sooner or later somebody's gonna pi$$ in your doorway._









Yes, the OP needs to keep teaching her son. But the people at the school are kind of setting themselves up, imo. I'm sure it's much more gratifying for them to be _right_ than it is to make it easier for these children to take care of their personal needs without being humiliated and having to jump through ridiculous hoops. Plus they get the added bonus of clucking their tongues at a young mother and feeling superior about their parenting skills. They must feel so proud.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

OP stated that she has to wait for her son outside and only when the students have been let out can she take him back in... It's like... ordering in McD's and then having to go out, get in your car and head through the drive through the pick it up... Why is it too hard to ask that the students be allowed to use the washroom _before_ they leave the school?


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## amma_mama (May 20, 2008)

Because, presumably, 5 year olds need to be chaperoned out the door. You can't have kids going in different directions, including the bathroom. Why is it such a BIG deal that the parent needs to accompany the kid back into school to go to the bathroom. Hardly seems onerous to me. If you want the privilege of staying on school grounds, make just a little bit of effort to make sure that the grounds remain usable for all the children!


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

My friend takes her son from the playground to her car and her son pees on the car tires. (her car of course) It's fun, it's outside, and nobody seems to mind.

Maybe the OP could do that if it's more convenient for her than going inside.

I agree that going back inside would be a hassle, especially if they need to be let back in. But, I wouldn't want children peeing on the trees in my backyard, so I would expect the parent to make sure it doesn't happen.

If she also can't make her son go pee in a bathroom, then perhaps she could ask the teachers to make sure he goes at the end of the day. I'm sure they are busy with the other kids and getting ready to go, but I doubt they would mind that much.


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amma_mama* 
Because, presumably, 5 year olds need to be chaperoned out the door. You can't have kids going in different directions, including the bathroom. Why is it such a BIG deal that the parent needs to accompany the kid back into school to go to the bathroom. Hardly seems onerous to me. If you want the privilege of staying on school grounds, make just a little bit of effort to make sure that the grounds remain usable for all the children!

Exactly. And frankly, no, the school does not have to take responsility for your kids peeing somewhere they shouldn't. Either take them back inside to pee or leave. I'm really not understanding the huge issue here.
Does anyone here actually understand how much is involved taking a large group of preschoolers to the bathroom? They obviously do it at least once during the 2.5 hours, but if they had to do it again right before class let out, there would be virtually no time left. The school is rightly assuming that you can take your child to the bathroom after class lets out if they need to go.
What happened to some parental responsibility? Yes, the school might be locked up more than you would like, but it is a safety measure which imo, trumps being inconvenienced by having to go back inside to use the potty.
I would also like to mention that I have never heard of a school allowing kids & parents to play on the playground while school is in session. Hell, most schools I know of don't even allow that after school. It would be considered trespassing.

Really, it shouldn't be that big of an issue. Either take it up with a higher up, find someplace else to play, get a portable potty, or follow the rules and take a couple minutes to go back in and use the restroom.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amma_mama* 
Because, presumably, 5 year olds need to be chaperoned out the door. You can't have kids going in different directions, including the bathroom. Why is it such a BIG deal that the parent needs to accompany the kid back into school to go to the bathroom. Hardly seems onerous to me. If you want the privilege of staying on school grounds, make just a little bit of effort to make sure that the grounds remain usable for all the children!

I agree with this. The school gets to decide if they want to continue to let you allow your child to pee on the tree the children play enjoy playing around. The fact that he couldn't be seen doesn't really matter, it is a hygeine issue. I am sorry you are having a hard time getting him to pee inside. Perhaps you could talk to him about how unhygenic it is and tell him that if it continues to happen you may not be allowed to play at the playground after school anymore. Maybe he just needs to stay at home close to a bathroom until he learns to use the bathroom more consistently.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
I think I'd frame it as a "school rules" thing. It's against the rules to pee outside at school....even if Mommy is here with you.

yes- this. i would even explain that mommy got in trouble because you did that. it's not shaming, it's just stating the facts. and if you do it again, i'm going to get in more trouble and you might not be able to play there anymore. so now i need you to follow the school's rules, which are: ________.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

I've let my ds pee at playgrounds before that had no bathroom or locked bathrooms because with a 4 year old(especially one like mine who had potty learning issues) when you gotta go, you gotta go. I try to make sure he uses a tree thats out of the way. All sorts of animals-cats, squirrels, raccoons, etc pee all over the place and no one cares. It's not ideal but it's not the end of the world either.


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## MammaKoz (Dec 9, 2003)

I haven't read all the replies, so forgive me if this has already been said.

OP I can understand your frustration and also where the school is coming from. I have a little boy who loves to pee outside. (We went camping and Matty found the joy of peeing outside and it was suddenly a very hard habit to break for awhile there. )

Now, I always have a little potty with me in the car (well minivan in our case) for this situation.

The school telling you taking him to the bathroom before going to the playground is great in theory. But as we all know, you can't make someone pee. And in my case, packing up a baby and getting my daughter off the playground all to rush Matty to bathroom 1/2 way across the school grounds or something is unrealistic, but I also don't want him peeing where children are potentially playing.

I would ask Matty to pee in the bathroom before we left for the park (or a place where there were no bathrooms) and 1/2 the time he didn't have to go. Murphy's law states though that as soon as we get to our destination, he will have to pee.









Anyways, it's one of those little plastic stand alone pottys, with the actual little bowl in it. He uses that and then I can wait for a good time to discretely dispose of it, (ie subtly reaching under the van and dumping the pee out kinda thing when no one is looking).

HTH.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

On your own property, you get to set your own rules. It is a matter of courtesy. After hours playground access is not something the OP has the unalienable right to or something the school has to let her do. They're doing a BIG favor by even allowing it. As you can see, most schools don't do that. So follow their rules if you want to take advantage of their offer. What do other kids do after school? What do their parents do about needing to potty?

Everything else about how often kids need to pee, if critters pee there, whether urine is sterile, if kids like to pee outside, how much hassle it is to get to a potty... all irrelevant in this discussion. It's school property. School decides.

(I would be more sympathetic to the OP if it was a problem during the school day and the teacher wasn't taking the kids to the potty during the day.)


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jokerama* 
I've let my ds pee at playgrounds before that had no bathroom or locked bathrooms because with a 4 year old(especially one like mine who had potty learning issues) when you gotta go, you gotta go. I try to make sure he uses a tree thats out of the way. All sorts of animals-cats, squirrels, raccoons, etc pee all over the place and no one cares. It's not ideal but it's not the end of the world either.


But once again, that's not the point. The school asked her not to allow her son to do that. Frankly, it's their rules and they don't have to allow kids to play on the playground after their class is over. If they keep having problems with kids not following the set rules, they might just close it off for kids not in school and then it ruins it for everyone.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

After reading this, I would close after-hours playground access for all. They don't have to allow the child to play here at all -- its a privilege not a right. Unless its a public playground attached to the preschool, in which case they have no responsiblity for providing restrooms after hours but they also don't get to make the rules. So I'm assuming (yes, I know, dangerous to do) that its the preschools playground. This is not during school time -- the school has no resonsbility for potty habits after school. They don't have to allow access to the building after hours. They don't have to schedule their preschool day to make in convenient for the parents after pickup. That would be a nicety, but its not a requirement. They do have a responsiblity to maintain a clean safe playground and, as some of the responses here indicate, many parents would say allowing deliberate urination does not do that.


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## veggiemomma (Oct 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jokerama* 
All sorts of animals-cats, squirrels, raccoons, etc pee all over the place and no one cares. It's not ideal but it's not the end of the world either.

No one has repeatedly asked a squirrel or raccoon not to pee outside.









Anyway, here is the worrier-cynic in me about peeing outside in public places: Sometimes little boys and girls THINK they are in a secluded spot when they aren't. I hate to bring it up, but there are all sorts of sickos in this world who would get a real kick out of seeing a child with their genitals exposed for the purposes of urinating or any other reason. And these are the kinds of people that lurk around parks and playgrounds. They are sometimes even the parents of children our own child's age.

I know, I sound kooky, but so be it.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maeve* 
But once again, that's not the point. The school asked her not to allow her son to do that. Frankly, it's their rules and they don't have to allow kids to play on the playground after their class is over. If they keep having problems with kids not following the set rules, they might just close it off for kids not in school and then it ruins it for everyone.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *veggiemomma* 
No one has repeatedly asked a squirrel or raccoon not to pee outside.









Anyway, here is the worrier-cynic in me about peeing outside in public places: Sometimes little boys and girls THINK they are in a secluded spot when they aren't. I hate to bring it up, but there are all sorts of sickos in this world who would get a real kick out of seeing a child with their genitals exposed for the purposes of urinating or any other reason. And these are the kinds of people that lurk around parks and playgrounds. They are sometimes even the parents of children our own child's age.

I know, I sound kooky, but so be it.


Oh I totally understand that. The school has rules and they should be followed. I thought the conversation had moved past the school thing and was now about whether it's ok for little boys to pee outside. That's what I was commenting on.


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## savvybabygrace (Feb 15, 2007)

I totally feel for every mom here whose ds/dd has peed outside when it wasn't considered "okay" to do so.

My dd has thrice POOPED outside. Each time followed a recent trip to the bathroom where she peed but didn't feel the urge to poop. Once it was on my neighbors lawn right outside her window, once in the park when the bathrooms weren't open, and once in a little playhouse. All three times were right after she was hardcore potty-learned, and while she was busy playing and really into what she was doing. Each time she suddenly looked up with a face full of panic and said "mommy! daddy! i have to GOOO!!!!!!"

What do others think about this?


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MammaKoz* 

Anyways, it's one of those little plastic stand alone pottys, with the actual little bowl in it. He uses that and then I can wait for a good time to discretely dispose of it, (ie subtly reaching under the van and dumping the pee out kinda thing when no one is looking).

HTH.









Line it with a plastic shopping bag. Then you can just pull that out and drop it in the trash. You don't have to worry about urine residue in the potty making your van stinky







.... tip from Heather.....daycare provider, lol.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savvybabygrace* 
What do others think about this?

Accidents happen *shrug*

Which is an entirely different thing, imo, from the OP's situation.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amma_mama* 
Because, presumably, 5 year olds need to be chaperoned out the door. You can't have kids going in different directions, including the bathroom. Why is it such a BIG deal that the parent needs to accompany the kid back into school to go to the bathroom. Hardly seems onerous to me. If you want the privilege of staying on school grounds, make just a little bit of effort to make sure that the grounds remain usable for all the children!

That's why you schedual a potty break right at the end of class. IMO the teacher not doing that is being lazy... It's for her convenience that the children don't get to use the potty before leaving the school, not the childrens.


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

I don't think it's being lazy. I think it's being realistic about time management when you only have 2.5 hours. The teacher is not there to make the parents' life more convenient. If your child needs to use the bathroom after class it is your responsibility as the parent to take them.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maeve* 
I don't think it's being lazy. I think it's being realistic about time management when you only have 2.5 hours. The teacher is not there to make the parents' life more convenient. If your child needs to use the bathroom after class it is your responsibility as the parent to take them.

Exactly. Chances are they do take a potty break earlier in the day and based on my experience helping with my DD's kindergarten I would guess that a potty break for preschoolers probably takes at least 15 minutes of class time. If you add a second potty break at the end of the day you are now taking about 30 minutes of class time - that is 20% of the day! Add into that the time it takes to get everyone ready to go home and time to settle everyone down in the morning and the day is almost gone!

Honestly, if the kids go to the bathroom before coming to school in the morning and get a break half way through the 2 1/2 hour day there really shouldn't be a need for the entire class to potty again before going home.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
Honestly, if the kids go to the bathroom before coming to school in the morning and get a break half way through the 2 1/2 hour day there really shouldn't be a need for the entire class to potty again before going home.

That depends entirely on the child... Not all children have the same level of control or the same sized bladder.


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## Sprungthe2.50 (Apr 13, 2008)

urine is only initially sterile, once the ammonia evaporates, it is no longer sterile.

Plus it is where other people play, why should they have to smell it, and if they had those rules for everyone, all the 4 years that that was a good place to urinate that would really make it a pretty dirty place to play.

I think the school has a point in asking her not to do it, and even though it's a pain in the neck having to pick him up outside, and then bring him back inside they have to abide by those rules for security reasons, keep in mind they are dealing with lots of kids at the same time and can't make too many concessions for individuals.


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## Sprungthe2.50 (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
That depends entirely on the child... Not all children have the same level of control or the same sized bladder.

But again, it's not the teacher's job to make the parent's life easier, the parent's should be taking their children to the bathroom at the end of the day after hours. It's not easy at all to organize a bathroom break for dozens of kids at once, for the few children that need it at the end of the day, their parent's should be the one that do it.


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## intentionalmama (Aug 23, 2008)

I've just read through this thread and what comes up for me is how children are not respected in society. As adults, I can not imagine having to all go for a pee break at the same time. Yes, there may be set breaks at work - but if you have to go at another time - this is usually very possible. But it seems with young children they have to wait until an authority figure tells them it is ok. I understand it is the school system and for safety reasons they can't just allow kids to go whenever, but still to expect children to "obey" this regulation because they are kids is not giving them the same respect that we would all want. I imagine it could be kind of stressful if a child feels they have to go, after the alloted time. If there was someone else in the class room, a helper, who could take the child - I think this would be a good thing.

And instead of scolding the mother - which is sort of the way I see it - as the incident was brought up over and over and over again - to me it would have been much better if they could have had a discussion and tried to figure out a way in which the mother would have felt they cared about not only the playground but also her child. ie) not speaking in such a shameful manner, brainstorming with her what would work,showing empathy for her, her child, and the school playground and children - basically treating her with respect. I guess as I write - I think that the way they treated her was not respectful. That would really bother me as I would want my child to be a place that is able to show empathy and not just judgment.

Lesley


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## Sprungthe2.50 (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intentionalmama* 
I've just read through this thread and what comes up for me is how children are not respected in society. As adults, I can not imagine having to all go for a pee break at the same time. Yes, there may be set breaks at work - but if you have to go at another time - this is usually very possible. But it seems with young children they have to wait until an authority figure tells them it is ok. I understand it is the school system and for safety reasons they can't just allow kids to go whenever, but still to expect children to "obey" this regulation because they are kids is not giving them the same respect that we would all want. I imagine it could be kind of stressful if a child feels they have to go, after the alloted time. If there was someone else in the class room, a helper, who could take the child - I think this would be a good thing.

And instead of scolding the mother - which is sort of the way I see it - as the incident was brought up over and over and over again - to me it would have been much better if they could have had a discussion and tried to figure out a way in which the mother would have felt they cared about not only the playground but also her child. ie) not speaking in such a shameful manner, brainstorming with her what would work,showing empathy for her, her child, and the school playground and children - basically treating her with respect. I guess as I write - I think that the way they treated her was not respectful. That would really bother me as I would want my child to be a place that is able to show empathy and not just judgment.

Lesley

I think they did come up with a solution, on how she can bring him back into the school to use the facility there, they take the time to buzz her back in, etc which is more helpful than saying, don't let him do that and not offering to let her back in, so she could either rush him home asap or bring a recepticle. I don't think there would have been enough options to brainstorm, and I'd fell a little patronized if a person did that to me.

The reason that the kids have set breaks is because of security, and they have a harder time holding it while at school, they can't hold it all day, but the teacher can't leave all the other students to follow one to the bathroom, and that child can't go on their own. It's not ideal, but there isn't an alternative.


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## mommyto3girls (May 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intentionalmama* 

And instead of scolding the mother - which is sort of the way I see it - *as the incident was brought up over and over and over again* - to me it would have been much better if they could have had a discussion and tried to figure out a way in which the mother would have felt they cared about not only the playground but also her child. ie) not speaking in such a shameful manner, brainstorming with her what would work,showing empathy for her, her child, and the school playground and children - basically treating her with respect. I guess as I write - I think that the way they treated her was not respectful. That would really bother me as I would want my child to be a place that is able to show empathy and not just judgment.

Lesley

I just reread the OP, the mother was talked to twice. Once by a teacher and then later by the assistant principal. This to me is not over and over and over again. The OP said it was not the first time the child had done this and many people (as evident by the replies to the thread) do not want to listen to rules just from the teacher so an administartor stepping in seems important in this case. espicially since it was not the child's teacher who originally said something.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nursemummy* 
This is what I think. And time management be damned. It's sheer, absolute laziness on the part of the staff to not take them to the bathroom. That's standard procedure at my dd's daycare & preschool.

Where did the OP ever state that her child was not taken to the washrooom while at school? She stated that she was not sure if they had a scheduled potty break but I highly doubt that a teacher would refuse a child a trip to the bathroom.


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## mommyto3girls (May 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nursemummy* 
This is what I think. And time management be damned. It's sheer, absolute laziness on the part of the staff to not take them to the bathroom. That's standard procedure at my dd's daycare & preschool.

No where does it say they do not take the kids to the bathroom! The OP is talking about after school is dismissed and she is at the playground after her child is out of school.


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## mommyto3girls (May 3, 2005)

Same thoughts I was reading and posting as you posted


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyto3girls* 
Same thoughts I was reading and posting as you posted


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nursemummy* 
This is what I think. And time management be damned. It's sheer, absolute laziness on the part of the staff to not take them to the bathroom. That's standard procedure at my dd's daycare & preschool.

I highly doubt that the class is not being provided with adequate restroom breaks for 4 year olds during the day, just not, apparently, right before class is dismissed. Most preschool kids go to the bathroom in groups when the restroom is out of the classroom. Why should my child have to waste her time because someone else wants their child to be taken to the restroom right before the end of class so they can stay and play? If this child needs to pee AFTER class is dismissed, that's neither the teacher's nor the class's responsibility.


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## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

As another pp pointed out, this sounds like an elementary school that has public pre-k. If so, I can totally see why they don't want ANY student to pee on the playground. What if an older student saw a little one doing it and decided he/she could do it too? Do we really want kids aged 4-10 to just go pee on the school playground whenever they want? That would be strange. They have to have a hard and fast rule. They can't allow it for some students and not others.


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## OakBerry (May 24, 2005)

I did say in an earlier post that I carry a "pee bottle" in the car, basically a one liter rubbermaid liquid container. Once I get home I rinse it out with vinegar and water and put it back in the car. It really was a lifesaver for the potty training and preschool age.

No matter what the school's restroom break schedule is, this is happening after school hours, out in the playground. It's the parent or guardian's responsibility to handle it.
Our school's playground has a port-a-potty there, that is really the ideal solution.

And I never understand the "urine is sterile" excuse. Urine is only sterile for a short time outside the body. Then it breaks down and grows bacteria at a fast rate and stinks.
Haven't you ever smelled a toilet that hasn't been flushed in a few hours? It reeks.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

So I'm one of the big proponents of the "No human pee on the playground" opinion, but I'm feeling bad about the OP now. She doesn't have that many posts overall, and has clearly not been a part of the pee war threads that have gone on here before. She hasn't been back to post since the OP either.

OP, I'm sorry. The school was rude to you, and now we've all run off with your thread. I think you can find a solution from the ideas given here because I get that it's a pain to go back inside the school; and I get they aren't making it easy for you. I don't think you should let your son keep doing it, but it can be solved.


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

I do believe that if they were getitng rude, you need to complain to the principal. There would be no excuse for that.


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## mamabeca (Oct 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
Ours are shut after school hours, you cannot stay and play, and they don't re-open either. I suspect behavior just like the OP was taking place, and rough housing, and they were probably worried about property damage, clean up, and liability. So now no one can use it.









Boy is that ever a bummer!

Public schools in NY can not turn the public away unless they 1) have a dog 2) are using language that is abusive 3) bullying children 4) are a registered sex offender. If anyone is there that the school doesn't think is ok (as in, an adult w/out kids or any one of the 4 options above), then they have to call the police. That said, they have doors locked policy (all the time) for the safety of the children, so only the front door is open. If you want to pee, you go arouuuuund the school, pee, and then you can exit any door you want. You are also supposed to sign in and out, which is a safety thing as well. Since all the schools around here provide after care for the children of working parents, no one would get to use the playgrounds during the week at all - after care goes until 6:30pm. Even in summer, kids eat dinner etc., so that would suck big time! This way, kids with parents can join in with the kids who are part of aftercare, but older kids (like ones who ride bikes etc.) are supposed to go home and come back w/a parent. But they don't always. They are still responsible for their behavior and the monitors can and do kick kids off who don't behave.

The private schools do NOT have to allow any kid on the playground that is not with their class. Traditionally, families who belong to the school do use the playgrounds whenever they want - I bring ds (3) to pick up dd (10) and we go 30 min. early so he can play on the playground at her Montessori school. He's pretty good about saying when he needs to pee, but he's also been known to 1) poop in the backyard 2) pee anywhere, even right on the street while we are walking the dog!, 3) think peeing in public/outisde is funny. We've had a bunch of discussions about where it is appropriate to pee if you are outside, like if we are on a trail etc. and WHEN it is appropriate to pee outside, and when it is not. Since he gets it (hasn't done anything naughty pee-wise in oh, probably 3+ months now), and he's about the same age as your ds, I'm guessing your ds is also developmentally ready to learn that peeing on school playgrounds is NOT ok. Ever. If he doesn't get it, then I would not let him play there, unfortunately. He'll get it, I only hope he gets it before he isn't allowed to play on the playground.

Hugs for the crappy treatment, mama.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sprungthe2.50* 
But again, it's not the teacher's job to make the parent's life easier, the parent's should be taking their children to the bathroom at the end of the day after hours. It's not easy at all to organize a bathroom break for dozens of kids at once, for the few children that need it at the end of the day, their parent's should be the one that do it.

Then the school shouldn't be making it as hard as possible for them to do it. I would genuinly PO'd if I found out DD wasn't allowed to go to the washroom before leaving the school


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maeve* 
And no, kids will not always go pee when asked to try, I didn't see anyone saying that either.

Actually it was said. One of the posters suggested taking him to the bathroom and telling him to go pee. My response was basically what you said, that you can take the child there, doesn't mean they will or even try. Anyway, yes someone basically mentioned that you can get a four yo to go to the bathroom when you want them to...


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## Sprungthe2.50 (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Then the school shouldn't be making it as hard as possible for them to do it. I would genuinly PO'd if I found out DD wasn't allowed to go to the washroom before leaving the school

Nobody said she wasn't they just aren't scheduling special breaks for it.

The reason it is so difficult is because of liability, people sue over the dumbest things, also it's safety. If you are going to allow one parent to pick up a child wherever in the school you have to do it for all, so everything is all over the place and helter skelter. They are trying to do it in a sfe and orderly fashion that they have to do because they are responsible for the kids until the parents get them.

They aren't trying to make it difficult on purpose, they just aren't re-arranging everything to make quite harder for themselves and just a little easier for an individual.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sprungthe2.50* 
Read my post again, dozens of kids being released from school, end of the day, teachers want to go home to their own kids and lives, and they need to make sure the children go safely to their parents, they need to coordinate an entire break to go to the bathroom so the kids are all fresh and ready to go with their parents so mum and dad don't need to worry about it when they pick up the kids?

It's great that your school may be small enough to do that, but the vast majority of schools aren't.

DD's school isn't small... and guess what Kindergarteners get take to the bathroom right before dismisal too...

People keep saying "Why should kids have to go on a potty break just because one child has to go?" I say why does one child have to risk getting in trouble for going on the playgroud or risk having an accident just because they are the only one that has to go? Which is worse? Spending 15 minutes in the bathroom when you don't have to pee, or having an accident and having go home in wet pants?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sprungthe2.50* 
Nobody said she wasn't they just aren't scheduling special breaks for it.

The reason it is so difficult is because of liability, people sue over the dumbest things, also it's safety. If you are going to allow one parent to pick up a child wherever in the school you have to do it for all, so everything is all over the place and helter skelter. They are trying to do it in a sfe and orderly fashion that they have to do because they are responsible for the kids until the parents get them.

Then take the kids to the bathroom in a safe and orderly fashion just before the last bell...


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## Sprungthe2.50 (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
DD's school isn't small... and guess what Kindergarteners get take to the bathroom right before dismisal too...

People keep saying "Why should kids have to go on a potty break just because one child has to go?" I say why does one child have to risk getting in trouble for going on the playgroud or risk having an accident just because they are the only one that has to go? Which is worse? Spending 15 minutes in the bathroom when you don't have to pee, or having an accident and having go home in wet pants?

He doesn't his mom can bring him back in a take him to the bathroom, he does this while he's playing, not the minute he gets out the door.

And if it's the last bell, you are forgetting that they are required to have a certain amount of class time no matter what, they can't take an extra 15 minutes out of it, and if kids are all antsy because it's the end of the day you think it will be easy to get them to go in an and out without a huge rucus and extra coordination? If your kid needs it, you take the responsibility and take the extra hassle rather than having the entire school do it.

If a school is already doing it, because of getting on coats etc, it's for their own convenience because it would be a lot harder to bundle them up with kids then saying they needed to go to the bathroom. You're calling them lazy as if you were expecting cutomer service.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Then take the kids to the bathroom in a safe and orderly fashion just before the last bell...

But as you said earlier in this thread:

Quote:

Um, you can talk all you want, but unless you strap him to the potty until he can't hold it anymore, you can't force a child to go...
Even if the teacher were to schedule a class potty break just before the bell rings at the end of their class for the day who's to say that her son will have to go at that moment as opposed to when mom walks him out to the playground to play.


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amma_mama* 
I agree with the PPs that since it is school property, they can make the rules, no matter how many people think it is OK to pee outside ona regular basis (versus an unexpected or emeergency situation). OP knows that her son may have to go potty after school, based on his past behavior. It is up to her to take him in to the school to go to the potty BEFORE hitting the playground (then no worries about him holding it in while somebody unlocks the door). They are permitted to stay on the playground after class, which is nice for the parents and kids. If they want to stay, they need to respect the rules, which are reasonable. If 30 kids peed on the playground everyday, can anybody honestly say that the school would not have a sanitation issue?

If it is too much trouble for the OP to attend to her son's needs in a way that does not infringe on others, then she needs to find another solution - a bottle, a portable potty, or a playground where peeing is OK (don't think that there are any except a dog park).

Sorry folks, urine may be sterile, but that does not translate to sanitary. Have you not ever smelled an area that was frequented by urinators? Yuck! The world is not your toilet.


well said!


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Just wondering where these preschool classes are that are composed of 'dozens' of children with one adult in charge of them...isn't that child/adult ratio illegal?

a dozen is 12, dozens implies more than one dozen, so what, 2 dozen? 24, or 3 dozen to qualify as 'dozens', so that would be 36 preschoolers with one teacher? I sure hope that's not the case. I don't think it is, so let's stop saying 'taking dozens of 4 year olds to potty'. It's inflammatory to continue doing so.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
The school was rude to you.

On this, I think everyone here would agree.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
On this, I think everyone here would agree.

Yes, and if the adults working for the school have no qualms about shaming, disrespecting, tsk-tsking, and shaking their heads in disappointment toward another adult, imagine how they must treat the children.


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## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nursemummy* 
I'm telling you, from experience, a big class of young children do this everyday at my daughter's school, with a minimum of fuss, so why the resistance?


Why the resistence to taking your child back into the school to pee? It's certainly much less inconvenient for you to do so with one child as opposed to 1-2 teachers with 12-25 kids. Especially since, as you say, he doesn't pee on command, and this is happening sometime after you get to the playground. If he doesn't pee on command for you, why would you expect him to do so for a teacher, especially before he has the biological urge to do so?

I realize the OP is not you...but you're responding as though he was, so, I pose this to you.


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## Sprungthe2.50 (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
Just wondering where these preschool classes are that are composed of 'dozens' of children with one adult in charge of them...isn't that child/adult ratio illegal?

a dozen is 12, dozens implies more than one dozen, so what, 2 dozen? 24, or 3 dozen to qualify as 'dozens', so that would be 36 preschoolers with one teacher? I sure hope that's not the case. I don't think it is, so let's stop saying 'taking dozens of 4 year olds to potty'. It's inflammatory to continue doing so.

I'm talking about the school letting out as a whole, but I'm pretty sure 1 teacher is in charge of over a 12 kindergarteners, yes. I know teachers that have has 25 students in one class for 1st graders. It's still a lot of kids to 1 person, you can't get around that.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

No, your not hearing about other kids doing this because the OP only _knows_ about her son. For all we know those (dozens? Seriously?) other kids could be having a similar issue only aren't staying after school to play. And yes, I believe like nursemummy, that when I have to go to the bathroom I have a right to go with minimal fuss that does not include waiting until someone else says I can come inside and go. If I were the OP's son I'd be peeing on the tree just to prove they can't control my baser needs.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katheek77* 
Why the resistence to taking your child back into the school to pee? It's certainly much less inconvenient for you to do so with one child as opposed to 1-2 teachers with 12-25 kids. Especially since, as you say, he doesn't pee on command, and this is happening sometime after you get to the playground. If he doesn't pee on command for you, why would you expect him to do so for a teacher, especially before he has the biological urge to do so?

Because IME - it is less inconvenient for the teacher to do it.

YMMV.


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Can't read all 8 pages, but scheduling a bathroom break sounds simple and yet.....is not. I'm a teacher and the mechanics of that vary. Depends on if the primary grades have their own bathrooms, class sizes, lunch/snack schedules, and specials classes. (Art, music, etc.) To be honest, I wouldn't want my four year old to whip out his pee pee in public for the third graders to view and make fun of him for. And frankly, who wants the playground to be a place where just anyone could urinate?


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## Sprungthe2.50 (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
Yes, and if the adults working for the school have no qualms about shaming, disrespecting, tsk-tsking, and shaking their heads in disappointment toward another adult, imagine how they must treat the children.

I think it may not translate to the children, it was an adult who was allowing her child to urinate on a tree where other kids were playing multiple times, from their point of view they were probably really upset.


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## momo7 (Apr 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I think my head would have exploded the _first_ time someone lectured me about an incident I had already handled.







:

Wow.

Did they think once he started you could stop him mid-stream?










yep.







do they think that you are stupid? It was an uncontrollable situation at the time. You know its not your little boy's fault right? It's not the end of the world and it's not the big deal they are making it out to be. Just on of those things. Tell them to put a sock in it and let you do your job without being lectured like *you're* the 4yr old.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sprungthe2.50* 
I'm talking about the school letting out as a whole,

but I don't think it is the whole school because:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mattysmomma* 
He only goes to pre-k from 7:30-10


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

IME adults who don't respect other adults, rarely show the same respect to even their own children let alone another persons.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
No, your not hearing about other kids doing this because the OP only _knows_ about her son. For all we know those (dozens? Seriously?) other kids could be having a similar issue only aren't staying after school to play. And yes, I believe like nursemummy, that when I have to go to the bathroom I have a right to go with minimal fuss that does not include waiting until someone else says I can come inside and go. If I were the OP's son I'd be peeing on the tree just to prove they can't control my baser needs.

You're much more succinct than I am - thank you.


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## Sprungthe2.50 (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nursemummy* 
Because IME - it is less inconvenient for the teacher to do it.

YMMV.

??????

Less inconvenient for who? You or the teacher?


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
IME adults who don't respect other adults, rarely show the same respect to even their own children let alone another persons.

So true.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sprungthe2.50* 
??????

Less inconvenient for who? You or the teacher?

The teacher - parents and children are not appreciated back in the school after final bell. We've been told as much...

And - I'm coming from my experience as an ECE... in the trenches, so to speak.


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## Sprungthe2.50 (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nursemummy* 
You're much more succinct than I am - thank you.

Would you feel that way if someone chose a place where you play as a spot to pee?

If this was a singular incident then the school was way out of line, but the op said it was multiple times and he'd decided it was his spot. The school said it wasn't and unfortunately do not have the time or means to change a schedule or designated release spot because of the legalities, bureaucracy and rules they need to abide by themselves.


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## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

And what happens if the teacher does rearrage the schedule, and takes the kids to the bathroom 15 minutes before leaving and they DON'T pee at that time - especially since, as has been pointed out over and over, some kids don't pee on command? Then what? Do we even know when the potty breaks *are* for these kids? Is it possible they're going 10/15/30 minutes before dismissal, and some of the kids just aren't peeing then?

I've taught. You figure 10 minutes minimum to get preschoolers dressed/bags packed/ etc to leave. If you're going potty before that, that's another 10 minutes. Then pickup is 5-10 mins minimum. So, that's 25 minutes at least from pee to dismissal. A lot of kids who didn't have to pee at the D-25 mark may well have to at D+5. At which point the PARENT has a RESPONSIBILITY to take the child to the bathroom. It's really not that hard. If it *is* so hard, perhaps the parent should go home, let the child use the bathroom, and then come back or go to an alternate park.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
Just wondering where these preschool classes are that are composed of 'dozens' of children with one adult in charge of them...isn't that child/adult ratio illegal?

a dozen is 12, dozens implies more than one dozen, so what, 2 dozen? 24, or 3 dozen to qualify as 'dozens', so that would be 36 preschoolers with one teacher? I sure hope that's not the case. I don't think it is, so let's stop saying 'taking dozens of 4 year olds to potty'. It's inflammatory to continue doing so.

In our public school district it is not uncommon to see 24+ kids in a preschool/kindergarten clann. My DD's class was 26 last year because the school had 10 new students arrive after the year started and there was no space in the building to start a 3rd section. Her teacher, FWIW, did not have a dedicated aide just help on occasion including help from parents. So in my personal situation, taking dozens of children is neither inflammatory nor incorrect.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Sprungthe2.50 said:


> Would you feel that way if someone chose a place where you play as a spot to pee?
> 
> 
> > I don't think it was right for him to pee there - I never, ever said so.


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## Sprungthe2.50 (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
In our public school district it is not uncommon to see 24+ kids in a preschool/kindergarten clann. My DD's class was 26 last year because the school had 10 new students arrive after the year started and there was no space in the building to start a 3rd section. Her teacher, FWIW, did not have a dedicated aide just help on occasion including help from parents. So in my personal situation, taking dozens of children is neither inflammatory nor incorrect.

thank you........


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
In our public school district it is not uncommon to see 24+ kids in a preschool/kindergarten clann. My DD's class was 26 last year because the school had 10 new students arrive after the year started and there was no space in the building to start a 3rd section. Her teacher, FWIW, did not have a dedicated aide just help on occasion including help from parents. So in my personal situation, taking dozens of children is neither inflammatory nor incorrect.

Which is also not mom's fault... It's the systems fault. Another reason I like Canada, it's illegal to have 24 kids in a preschool class.


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## Sprungthe2.50 (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Which is also not mom's fault... It's the systems fault. Another reason I like Canada, it's illegal to have 24 kids in a preschool class.

I'd love that too, I lived in Canada and miss it dearly, but the best solution to this is to just take the kid to the bathroom yourself and not expect the teachers to pick up the slack for a crappy system. Believe me, they'd change it all in a heart beat if they could.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Which is also not mom's fault... It's the systems fault. Another reason I like Canada, it's illegal to have 24 kids in a preschool class.

That would never happen in Ontario (I live up north) - I think that would be a huge safety issue to have that many kids in a class.

I'm not saying the teacher is to blame. I'm saying that motions and actions could be undertaken to make this situation better.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nursemummy* 
\
I'm not saying the teacher is to blame. I'm saying that motions and actions could be undertaken to make this situation better.

There you go being the succinct one now. That is exactly it.


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## Sprungthe2.50 (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nursemummy* 
That would never happen in Ontario (I live up north) - I think that would be a huge safety issue to have that many kids in a class.

I'm not saying the teacher is to blame. I'm saying that motions and actions could be undertaken to make this situation better.

But the motions and actions you suggested aren't practical, if even do-able, especially to just make a parent's life easier on taking her child to the bathroom and you said the teachers were being lazy.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sprungthe2.50* 
not expect the teachers to pick up the slack for a crappy system.

I don't believe the OP is wanting the teachers to take up the slack, I believe she is expressing the teacher was rude to her and that she has a potty problem with her son.


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## LizaBear (Feb 1, 2003)

I think that the school staff was likely being rude in the manner which they handled this.

BUT - I also think that they are well within their rights to insist she not allow her son to urinate outdoors.

Not just as a matter of school policy, but I am not aware of any places where public urination isn't illegal. It's not just something the school has made up - were it an adult urinating on the tree, they could be facing a ticket / fine (I believe it's likely a misdemeanor).

At what age does public urination (not just outdoors, but PUBLIC) become unacceptable ?

http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/public-urination/


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sprungthe2.50* 
But the motions and actions you suggested aren't practical, if even do-able, especially to just make a parent's life easier on taking her child to the bathroom and you said the teachers were being lazy.

If they aren't practical or do-able, then why are other schools in other areas able to do it?


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

I really think that maybe we should get away from issue on whether or not it's acceptable to pee outside, but just help the OP find other options (like we have tried to do) as well as dealing with the rudeness.

Potty issue:

Explain to dc that urinating at the playground is *not* an option and that if he needs to go he can go inside or use a portable potty. If it it happens again, calmly explain that he broke the rules and that it is time to leave.

Teacher/AP issue:
I would write a letter or call and speak to (or both) the teacher as well as the AP and explain how bothered you were by how you were treated. They need to know that being rude to a parent is not acceptable. Take it up with the principal if needed.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
If they aren't practical or do-able, then why are other schools in other areas able to do it?

That's what I'd like to know. I've offered my very real, and timely experience, and it's just being completely discredited.

And again, I don't think the teacher (persay) needs to be the fixer here. Nor do I think that everyone accepts public urination (a four year old peeing on a tree wouldn't bother me - but it's not about me).

I will recant on the teachers being lazy. It really raises my ire when other adults in the educational field are behaving in a subpar manner (i.e. the OP's post about the confrontation with the teacher).

There is a fix here, that's all I'm trying to say. Maybe the OP needs to go higher up the food chain?


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katheek77* 
I've taught. You figure 10 minutes minimum to get preschoolers dressed/bags packed/ etc to leave. If you're going potty before that, that's another 10 minutes. Then pickup is 5-10 mins minimum. So, that's 25 minutes at least from pee to dismissal. *A lot of kids who didn't have to pee at the D-25 mark may well have to at D+5.* At which point the PARENT has a RESPONSIBILITY to take the child to the bathroom.









:

I'm pretty sure almost all of us agree that the teacher/AP did not handle it well and were rude/condescending...and that should be addressed...but that doesn't change the fact that after picking up her son from class, it's the mom's responsibility to come up ith an alternate bathroom arrangement for her son (bottle, bathroom, potty in the van), especially if it's becoming a pattern. It would be nice if the playground had a porta potty, but it doesn't, so it's up to the parent to find the solution.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I am returning this thread to the forum for discussion. Many posts were removed that were in violation of the user agreement. If you see a post remained which you find objectionable, please do not respond to it in the thread. Send me a pm and let me know which post is in question.

Going forward please keep the UA in mind when posting to this thread:

Quote:

Do not post in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, name-calling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.


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## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mattysmomma* 
After picking DS (4yrs old) up at school, we usually stay at the school playground for another hour or so to hang out with his friends/ other moms...Well, today as soon as he was at the playground, he said he had to go potty and ran to the corner (behind a tree) and peed on the tree.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
...not only that, the OP stated that ehr son had the incidents an hour after being at the playground after class...not 5 or 10 minutes. So even if he did go before dismissal (say 20 min, to accomodate the whole class pottying and dismissal time), he was then with his mom for an HOUR before he peed on the tree...which is WAY out of the responsibilit of the school at that point.

MattysMomma's ds peed as soon as they went to the playground, not an hour later.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Think of Winter* 
MattysMomma's ds peed as soon as they went to the playground, not an hour later.

WOOP! Big time misread. I'll go edit my post. Sorry and thanks.

I still think mom should be the one to take kiddo to the bathroom herself, even if it is a pain for her, regardless of if it's 5 min or an hour after release from school.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
Yes, and if the adults working for the school have no qualms about shaming, disrespecting, tsk-tsking, and shaking their heads in disappointment toward another adult, imagine how they must treat the children.

That is a very good point.

I'm confused about something. When my ds was in preschool, being potty trained was a requirement, and since the children _are_ potty trained, is there a reason they can't go to the bathroom _when they need to_ during class? Are they expected to sit there the entire time until their parents arrive, or is there a time in the middle of the session where everyone goes as a group and waits their turn at the bathroom? Neither one seems to make a lot of sense to me.

I remember my earliest classroom experiences, and there was _always_ a bathroom attached to the classroom in pre-k to at least 1st or 2nd grade. Only the older children had to actually leave the classroom to go to the bathrooms. Is this place just not designed well, or what?


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I'm confused about something. When my ds was in preschool, being potty trained was a requirement, and since the children _are_ potty trained, is there a reason they can't go to the bathroom _when they need to_ during class? Are they expected to sit there the entire time until their parents arrive, or is there a time in the middle of the session where everyone goes as a group and waits their turn at the bathroom? Neither one seems to make a lot of sense to me.

I remember my earliest classroom experiences, and there was _always_ a bathroom attached to the classroom in pre-k to at least 1st or 2nd grade. Only the older children had to actually leave the classroom to go to the bathrooms. Is this place just not designed well, or what?









I think a lot of this depends on the specific school. As far as I can tell from having read the entire thread, we do NOT know the answers to these questions about the OPs school, other than the fact that the bathroom is down the hall.

For my kid's preschool, the bathrooms were off the central hallway. Not ideal, but the building was originally designed for (and is still used as) a church's meeting rooms. So, the post-potty trained kids used the restroom on a schedule, with each class having specific times throughout the day for restroom trips. Between group trips a child could certainly request a restroom trip and one of the classroom teachers would stand in the doorway of the classroom to watch both classroom kids and bathroom child -- the second teacher would continue to teach the class. This was necessary as the hallway was open (not in an enclosed building, very typical of So. CA schools) so a child could easily leave the classroom and keep walking, ending up at the street without being noticed. These times were generally right ast they came in from the playground at 9 (before circle time), about 10:30 or so (varied by class), just before lunch (12, when 1/2 day children left), before nap (about 1), and after nap (about 3). The toddler room mostly had children in diapers, so they were changed in the room. The young 3's room where active potty training was taking place had the only classroom with an attached bathroom. Around here for preschools that were not originally built to be preschools, this is a common arrangement.

But again, there is no way to tell if any of this would apply to the OPs school.


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## punkrawkmama27 (Aug 31, 2007)

When dd was in Kindergarten last year, we used to go (me and all 3 kids) down to the playground to play after school. Everytime one of them would have to go potty. So up the hill we would walk, everytime I would have at least one crying child b/c they wanted to stay and play. It was a pain, but I still took them, I just didnt think it was the place to pee, unless it was a big time emergency. At ds preschool this year, it is the parents responsibility to take dc potty before and after school, and if they need to go during, there is an aide that comes to the class and takes them to the potty.

With that said, we have gone to the park or the woods, even in our own backyard and ds had to go bad, there was not enough time to get to a restroom, or there was not one around and I let him go in a very private spot and go. I just didnt want my two boys to make a habit of it.

Reading your post, I can see why you would be upset with the teachers. You were handling it on your own, it was not like you were sitting there talking to another mom and totally ignoring your dc while it happened. I think the teacher may have over-reacted, by stepping in while you were trying to parent your dc.


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## Mokhwrar (Nov 4, 2008)

I have to giggle, because my kids pee all the time on the school grounds.

They're homeschooled on a 1,500 acre ranch.


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## GirlBoyGirlBoy (Sep 9, 2008)

I am going to consider myself and my children mighty lucky that we have the school we have.... Our preschool has a bathroom with two child-sized potties in it and the kids can go whenever they need to without all the hullabaloo some of you are describing. If a child has an accident, there are spare clothes we send from home and the teachers will change them and even put the wet/soiled clothes in a bag to send home









There is an 18 child maximum for the youngest group with three teachers always present and 22 kids to three teachers for the next age group. For the four and young fives it is a 28 to 4 ratio and they have their own bathroom too. Class time is 8:30-12:00.

We live in a suburban California area so I recognize that our buildings are more conducive to easy access for the kids while at the same time having a secure campus, but I don't think I'd be interested in sending my kids to a preschool without its own bathroom or a higher ratio of kids to teachers. Preschool is private here so you have to make the choice of where to send your child if at all since it isn't mandatory.

I see the school's point about no pee on the playground, but I would be irritated if I were the OP and had multiple lectures on the same subject.







:


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mokhwrar* 
I have to giggle, because my kids pee all the time on the school grounds.

They're homeschooled on a 1,500 acre ranch.









Damn, we are moving in.


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## Mokhwrar (Nov 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Janelovesmax* 
Damn, we are moving in.

Believe me, if it was ours, we would turn it into a commune in a heartbeat. But alas, we're just the care-takers. What the owners paid for it is about a bazillion times more than we could ever possibly afford on our budget.


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## amma_mama (May 20, 2008)

Wow, I can't believe that this thread is still alive! I am having a really hard time understanding the high expectations that are being placed on a preschool to make sure that the kids do not need to go potty after school, but have no expectations for the parents involved to preempt the situation by themselves. If you know your kid has to go potty soon after school let's out, then find an appropriate way to deal with it. Period. Go back into the school, bring a bottle, bring a portable potty - it is not exactly onerous. I find it hard to believe that any of these solutions are too onerous for the parent. Gosh, how does such a parent handle other issues in a child's life? If my kid is often hungry after school or play, I make sure to have a snack ready. If my child is often tired after school/play, then I make sure they can take a nap, rather than schedule other activities. If my child often has to pee after school/play, then we go to the potty before the next activity.

Yes, kids sometimes have emergencies/accidents. Kids get distracted at play and do not want to interrupt to go to the potty. My own daughter has had a few accidents. THe first time might be a surprise that you can do nothing about. THe second time, you tell yourself to remember to take your child to the potty BEFORE play. For those that think that the school is setting up the child for failure, the mother is also setting him up for failure. As a parent, it is MY role to guide my child, intervene when necessary, and make efforts to avoid such situations.


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## kalimay (May 25, 2005)

Quote:

Wow, I can't believe that this thread is still alive! I am having a really hard time understanding the high expectations that are being placed on a preschool to make sure that the kids do not need to go potty after school, but have no expectations for the parents involved to preempt the situation by themselves.
Wow, I read the whole thread and I agree with this. I keep wondering if the OP had come on to say that her son had decided his new place to pee was in car on the way home from school if she would have gotten the same answers. After all the pee is sterile and certainly you can't expect a four year old to not just whip it out and pee cause when you got to go you got to go right.
I also think it is great that they let you all stay and play on the playground afterschool and it does not seem unreasonable to me to expect you to go to the restroom with your son.


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