# "Medical" Marijuana during Labor



## ltk (Jul 6, 2005)

Okay, I just have to share....first of all, I have long been of the belief that a little marijuana is okay during pregnancy. And so I have had a bit here and there, no problems with either pregnancy/child.

I am now thinking of using it for pain management during labor. Apparently this is common in Jamaica (surprise), and I have read that midwives have used it for thousands of years.

Anyone out there want to share their experiences, IF they have? OR their thoughts if they are thinking about it now?

I am pretty sure I am gonna go for it.







:


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## kymber86 (Jan 1, 2008)

i dont see any problm with it, i personally wouldnt just because i want to experience the whole of it, and not numb myself in any way. but IF i wanted any pain relief, it would be a little marijuana


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## barefootpoetry (Jul 19, 2007)

I have been pondering this myself. My only concern is that my tolerance would be too low at the time since I definitely don't smoke like I used to, and I'd wind up stoned instead of relaxed - not what I want for my first homebirth! I am open to it, though, so we'll see what happens.


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## all in green (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ltk* 
Okay, I just have to share....first of all, I have long been of the belief that a little marijuana is okay during pregnancy. And so I have had a bit here and there, no problems with either pregnancy/child.

I am now thinking of using it for pain management during labor. Apparently this is common in Jamaica (surprise), and I have read that midwives have used it for thousands of years.

Anyone out there want to share their experiences, IF they have? OR their thoughts if they are thinking about it now?

I am pretty sure I am gonna go for it.







:

You might want to consider what could happen if you had to transfer to the hospital for some reason in the midst of labor or immediately after the birth. If you or the baby were found to have marijuana in your system it could lead to serious reprucussions. Just something to think about.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *all in green* 
You might want to consider what could happen if you had to transfer to the hospital for some reason in the midst of labor or immediately after the birth. If you or the baby were found to have marijuana in your system it could lead to serious reprucussions. Just something to think about.

This is what I was going to say. If, heaven forbid, you need to transfer, they can do a drug test without informing you or getting your consent (and usually will for HB transfer).


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## Down2Earth (Jan 23, 2008)

^I agree! They could take away your baby because of the drugs in your system (and maybe even in your baby's system.) I don't think it would be worth it.


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## chandasz (Apr 13, 2005)

How can they do a drug test (without cause) without your consent? I'm not sure this is the law. Anyone know for sure?

The only issue I'd have with using pot for pain management is that I think it would affect how out of it I'd feel. I'd either focus in on the pain and get paranoid or not be able to focus and work with my body because i was stoned.

I really don't think drugs are necessary during labor for pain management. There are so many better options.

Being fully present in the moment is an amazing way to bring your baby into the world.

I'm also unsure of whether or not pot would have effects on the body's natural endorphin system and all the other hormonal reactions that take place (typical hospital drugs - opiates - do suppress these hormonal reactions and cause a whole host of issues)


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## GiGiQ (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *all in green* 
You might want to consider what could happen if you had to transfer to the hospital for some reason in the midst of labor or immediately after the birth. If you or the baby were found to have marijuana in your system it could lead to serious reprucussions. Just something to think about.

Yeah, that's why I quit marijuana completely during pregnancy. I think eating it would be better than smoking it, anyway, but I was afraid of complications leading to hospital and tox screen and all the problems that would ensue. It's too bad we have to worry about things like that, since all the good science I've found supports the fact that marijuana isn't harmful during the pregnancy and there are times I'd like it to settle my stomach.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chandasz* 
How can they do a drug test (without cause) without your consent? I'm not sure this is the law. Anyone know for sure?

The laws may be different by state, but according to my nurse friend here in Texas, you sign a general consent form when you are admitted that allows most testing. You would have to give separate consent for HIV, but not for drugs. They won't actually do it without "probable cause," but determining that is up to the doctors, so it's hard to say when they might decide they have cause. If you'd been smoking in the last couple of hours for pain management, it seems possible they would smell or otherwise recognize the signs and might test.


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## ltk (Jul 6, 2005)

All the feedback is really great. I am actually going to the hospital to delivery, but will be at home early on. I asked my midwife about it and she said unless there is a history of drug abuse, they aren't looking for that information.

And about being present, I totally agree. I think it's very much an individual decision, based on a few things.....personally, I know how I react w/ it and feel that it would keep me relaxed as I climb towards transition and by THAT time all my hormones, pain, etc would over ride.

I do know someone who had it during hers and it was enjoyable. I guess I feel like when I have taken it for period cramps, it works wonders. I feel like I would still be there, by the time the baby came out.....

And yes, I did it without meds last time.....the question is, do I want to do it again?







at that same level of pain? not really!


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## spiderdust (Oct 3, 2005)

:


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## chirp (Feb 9, 2008)

does anyone think "history of drug abuse" would include being honest with the midwife about smoking mj?

i've cut down considerably BUT, when i did my first interview with the midwife i told her that i smoked. she asked me if i stopped and i said yes (small white lie, but i really don't smoke all that much, not everyday, maybe 1-2x per week)

but did she put that in my chart, er something, and maybe the hospital will see it and want to test? or do they mean like a serious history of drug abuse, with rehab visits and stuff?

also be careful...if you are young, poor (welfare) and/or a minority they will test you. sorta like profiling for high risk. this is why i'm stopping now. but i'm still worried that i might test positive since it takes so LONG to get out of your system (I was a habitual, everyday multiple times per day smoker before i got pregnant)


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## vermontgirl (Aug 15, 2006)

If you are delivering in the hospital I would definitely NOT do it. Nothing is worth the chance of them taking your sweet baby away. It is really sad that a little marijuana is illegal and they could take your baby away but they are constantly drugging moms up with epidurals and other harmful things. Marijuana would have much less effect on the baby. I personally think that it would be a fine way to manage the pain-if you want to do it with drugs but since it is illegal I would not. As I said above, it is not worth the risk.


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## Mamato3wild ponnie (Jan 6, 2007)

I worked in a hospital on the post partum for many years and they did not take away a baby just because mom tested + for pot. there are to many other worse drugs and events that happen for them to be concerned about. however they do routinely do drug screens on mom's with no history of prenatal care. They tell them before they do the screen, and that's when most mom's confess. No worries to you at all. if your used to smoking every once in awhile i think it would help you relax. good luck


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## pixiepunk (Mar 11, 2003)

regarding the testing for it at the hospital - if she has smoked it at all within a month of giving birth, chances are it will show up on a test. THC stays in the system a long time, it wouldn't make any difference if she'd smoked it that day or not. so that, in and of itself would not be a reason to avoid it in labor... if you're not avoiding it in general during pregnancy.

i, too, would worry about it making me paranoid. also, i would definitely make sure it's from a batch you've smoked already and know the potency of. sometimes you can take a teeny weeny little puff and be on your butt from something very strong, while other things you can have 5 or 6 puffs and not have that same intensity of effect.

i personally wouldn't use it for pain management. the amount i think it would take to really help with pain would be too much for me to be able to stay focused and present. but it seems like using it in early labor, similarly to how you might with a small glass of wine would be OK - to allow you to relax and maybe get some sleep so you're ready for the more difficult stuff to come.


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## desertpenguin (Apr 15, 2005)

interesting thread! i seriously worry about legal repercussions regarding mj use (espescially since we don't vax)...i wouldn't use it in labor because i would worry it would make me too spacey or paranoid, and in the past a couple of times it made me feel like my heart was going to jump out of my chest. it would be really something if you could get an unbiased study on the effects of mj use for pain relief in labor and if/how it affects the hormonal processes.


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## akilamonique (Jun 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chandasz* 
How can they do a drug test (without cause) without your consent? I'm not sure this is the law. Anyone know for sure?

The only issue I'd have with using pot for pain management is that I think it would affect how out of it I'd feel. I'd either focus in on the pain and get paranoid or not be able to focus and work with my body because i was stoned.

I really don't think drugs are necessary during labor for pain management. There are so many better options.

Being fully present in the moment is an amazing way to bring your baby into the world.

I'm also unsure of whether or not pot would have effects on the body's natural endorphin system and all the other hormonal reactions that take place (typical hospital drugs - opiates - do suppress these hormonal reactions and cause a whole host of issues)

I think a drug test and an Aids test is done automatically when you go in the hospital.


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## ltk (Jul 6, 2005)

this is a totally interesting thread..... I think the hospital regs depend on the state you are in. I think that it mj showing up in lab work is not enough to take a baby away. I actually asked my midwife (hospital midwife) about it and she said it's not a worry. I do think that there is some racial profiling to take into account and depending on who you are, it can affect the outcome.

It is too bad that it hasn't been studied to the point that most everything else has. I just know that I have enjoyed a puff here and there with both of my pregnancies and never suffered from it (neither are they). I know this is controversial stuff to some people...but hey, that's what this type of board is for!

I am going to get a license for it anyway, b/c I would never want my small amount of use to interfere with raising my children (if I were to ever get caught). Depends on the state though....I live on the LEFT coast!


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## Vancouver Mommy (Aug 15, 2007)

pot makes me lazy. birth is hard work! my midwife did suggest a glass of wine though.


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## i*wish (May 4, 2004)

Three things:

I worked at a hospital in L.A. and marijuana on a tox screen was almost a nonissue...there were much bigger 'fish to try' in the population being served so a little pot mattered not to social services.

I think one of the birth stories in Spiritual Midwifery the mom used mj for some mellowing....

"Medical" marijuana is being studied for use with morning sickness...


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Someone just posted this in the news forum-

http://www.truebirth.com/2008/02/29/...hile-pregnant/


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## desertpenguin (Apr 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CherryBomb* 
Someone just posted this in the news forum-

http://www.truebirth.com/2008/02/29/...hile-pregnant/

that is so sad!!! does anyone know what state that's in?


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## danotoyou2 (Jan 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *desertpenguin* 
that is so sad!!! does anyone know what state that's in?

It was in Monroe, Louisiana.


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## LaffNowCryLater (May 2, 2003)

Can someone explain why weed can't contribute to low birth weight or prematurity but tobacco does?

Genuine question.


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## desertpenguin (Apr 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaffNowCryLater* 
Can someone explain why weed can't contribute to low birth weight or prematurity but tobacco does?

Genuine question.

this article seems to explain it pretty well. idk of any studies about whether or not weed causes/contributes to low birth weight or not.


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## gentleearthmama (Jan 2, 2008)

from Wise Woman Herbal for the Childbearing Year by Susun Weed:
Cannabis Sativa (Marijuana) is used for STALLED LABOR, particularly if tension or emotional stress stalls labor. It can help relax the controlling mind and bring attention to the needs of the body, as well as STRENGTHEN the needed contractions. All forms of the herb are effective, but vary in potency and dosage. Smoking offers the most control over dosage, as effects are fairly immediate and dissipate within an hour or two. Cannabis tincture, 10 drops under the tongue, is also quick acting and dosage can be increased slowly as desired. The greatest risk of overdose is when using cannabis as tea (and I would assume also eating it) as the effects are slow and cumulative and several hours may pass before the full strength of the dose can be gauged. Too large a dose can cause lethargy, hallucinations, and trance-like states.
For pain she suggests motherwort, skullcap, and st. joans wort. See book for further information.
So I am guessing that mj doesn't help too much with labor pain, since it is oxytocic and used for stalled labor to strengthen contractions.
So OP, if you decide to try it out for pain management, I'd be interested in hearing what kind of results you get.


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## AugustineM (Mar 21, 2005)

I agree with whoever said having a glass of wine as you go into labor can help relax.

Interesting about smoking a bit of pot. I don't know... it might work. I might get too tired, though. It tends to make me want to go to sleep or just zone out. (Not bad things!)


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## not now (Mar 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *akilamonique* 
I think a drug test and an Aids test is done automatically when you go in the hospital.

HIV test has to have a signed informed consent. Even if I (an RN) accidentally sticks myself with a used needle I have to ask the patient if the lab can run an HIV screen and have them sign the consent. This has actually happened to me once and it's an odd topic to bring up.

An MD also has to ask for consent for an HIV screen even in the event a surgeon accidentally pokes him/herself.

A tox screen can be run if an MD suspects use.


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## riverundine (Oct 26, 2005)

definitely state by state.
an mdc mama had her infant taken temporarily in tx just a couple of years ago. luckily he went to the grandparents but it was quite the ordeal.
luckily the left coast doesn't put families through that unnecessary drama.


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## mrspineau (Jan 15, 2008)

I am kind of surprised at the positive response to this thread... not to say that I have a negative one. I personally don't think that its a great idea to smoke anything while you are pregnant, but I know plenty of people who have and everything has turned out fine. I would be concerned about drug testing as well.


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## ~NewMa~ (Nov 20, 2007)

I used to smoke quite alot before my pregnancy as well but never seriously considered it during my birth just because I'd be concerned how it would effect me since I haven't done it in so long.
My midwife did say that she would be ok with me taking a puff or 2 during labor if I wanted to because it strengthens contractions.
I don't think I'll really be into it unless my nausea and vomiting gets outta hand.
Personally I'm not so scared of being tested in the event of a hospital transfer as I am of being too paranoid in that instance.
The hospital doesn't usually do standard drug screening, only if there's reason to believe there's been drug use.
Would love to know what you finally decide and how everything goes


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## Twwly (Jan 30, 2007)

I have a friend who used a *little* MJ during labour (HB) to deal with the pain. Her MW rec'd a little wine and a little greenery and it was all fine for her. I don't think it had ANY effect once transition came along, but it did ease her early labour pains.

And wasn't like she was smoking cones or anything. If I smoked (which I don't, I don't drink either) I would consider wine & a joint to ease early labour and wouldn't personally be worried about hospital repercussions.


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## iris427 (Dec 30, 2007)

In case you do need surgery, you should be honest about your marijuana use. It can affect which type of anesthesia they give you and the dosage. Not something you want to mess around with--anesthesia errors can be deadly.


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## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iris427* 
In case you do need surgery, you should be honest about your marijuana use. It can affect which type of anesthesia they give you and the dosage. Not something you want to mess around with--anesthesia errors can be deadly.

Can you explain this in more detail? I've never heard mj could affect anesthesia.


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## iris427 (Dec 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thixle* 
Can you explain this in more detail? I've never heard mj could affect anesthesia.

Any drug you take can interact with other drugs--either strengthening or negating their effect. That is why doctors ask you if you take any medications or drugs. If you lie about it, and you are being given something as serious as anesthesia for surgery, it could _potentially_ cause problems. It's not a risk I, personally, would be willing to take.

Anesthesia errors can happen easily enough without throwing into the mix other drugs that you don't tell your doctor about. People die from anesthesia mistakes.

I'm not against marijuana at all, it's just something I thought the OP should consider.


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## anjasma (Jul 29, 2004)

Quote:

luckily the left coast doesn't put families through that unnecessary drama.
Wish that were true...I have a personal friend here in WA who had dd temporarily taken away from her when MJ was found in babe's system just after birth (homebirth, but they went to the hospital because dd was having slight congestion in lungs, then they did a screen. I totally think it had something to do with them being Rasta...)

Also, even though they have medical license, they are in danger of losing the older children to bio-mom. Sad, sad stuff...I also wouldn't risk it for the consequences.


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## ltk (Jul 6, 2005)

Wow everyone, thanks for all of your responses. I think for me it's more about what it will "do" for the labor, than the actual risk of getting caught. I would definitely disclose it if we happened to need a c-section (perish the thought).

I think you have to put yourself in the context of 1) knowing HOW you tend to labor 2) where you live and 3) where you plan to give birth.

I think it might be good for early labor, along with some wine...but not sure it would even impact my body if I were near transition.

Still, I would love to keep this thread going! So many good thoughts out there on the subject.


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## donnamr3211 (Aug 12, 2006)

I would think if someone wanted to use drugs during labor why not just have a hospital birth and do it legally? To me natural birth is just that, natural. I do not want any intervention at all, be it "natural" or non natural. I don't even want to be checked. The only time I want anything given or done to me is when it is medically necessary. I know that every women is different and wants different things from their birth experience, I'm just adding my 2 cents into the discussion. Good luck and happy birthing to all.


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## Megan_Cherry (Feb 16, 2003)




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## gentleearthmama (Jan 2, 2008)

*


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## Mamatolea (Jan 17, 2007)

I don't know how hb will go this time, but let me TELL you...if I had had a smoke of mj during my hour of NOT pushing to allow the labor to progess, I would have..no questions asked. That was the worst thing I have ever felt and were it to happen again, I will so definiately try mj to bring the labor around rather than suffer like I did....

I think I would choose to use a vaporizer instead of smoking it though, but if all I had was a joint, I would do it.

I am all for natural birth too, but the pain was horrific and ITA about there being a big difference between being numb from the waist down to being a bit more relaxed.

I would be more concerned with the intensity of the batch you get than anything else.








and let us know what you choose and how it goes!!!


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## Amber Lion (Sep 22, 2006)

Just another perspective (and I'm actually on the left coast)...

I work for a drug treatment facility in a program called Healthy Babies that works with women who are at risk for drug abuse during pregnancy. Yes, all my clients have a history of drug abuse and/or tested pos during their pregnancies for some kind of drug, but I also get called into our valley's NICU to do chemical dependency evals on women who were never in "the system", but were tested when they were in labor at the hospitals and their babies were tested too (I have the unpleasant job of deciding whether it's safe to use their breastmilk or if they are too high risk). There was no "reason" for them to be tested, the hospital just always does a drug screen on Mommas of and babies who need NICU attention. And DHS (CPS around here) gets called in regardless of what drug or what levels, even for "just pot". If you have a medical mj card, then you will probably have the case closed pretty quickly, but if not you will be required to go through a huge rigamarol of drug treatment (yes, even for just a little pot) to keep your children even if they don't immediately take them away.

I just wanted to put that out there that even on the left coast, some areas are really strict about drug use and test anyone, even without cause and without obtaining consent. I'm not personally against mj, even during pg, (and yes, that is a little awkward with my job), but I don't choose to use it b/c I know how difficult these Momma's lives are made just for smoking a "little pot".









P.S. I don't mean to try and scare anyone, just wanted to put out my two cents b/c I work in this field.


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## pixiepunk (Mar 11, 2003)

Quote:

I would think if someone wanted to use drugs during labor why not just have a hospital birth and do it legally? To me natural birth is just that, natural. I do not want any intervention at all, be it "natural" or non natural. I don't even want to be checked. The only time I want anything given or done to me is when it is medically necessary. I know that every women is different and wants different things from their birth experience, I'm just adding my 2 cents into the discussion. Good luck and happy birthing to all.
obviously everyone has to do what they're comfortable with. and there have been discussions here before about the word "natural" and what it entails and what can be included in such a labor and still be considered "natural." like is it not natural if i have a glass of wine to relax in early labor? is it not natural if i have a few sprays of rescue remedy while i'm laboring? what about aromatherapy? Blue and black cohosh? castor oil?

Everyone's going to have a different answer to those questions, and to draw the line in a different place. but i most definitely don't think there isn't any comparison between a little MJ and an epidural or narcotics to deal with pain during labor. And frankly, even if there were more of a comparison, i think there are plenty of people who would prefer to give birth at home for a lot of reasons, even if they do desire pain management. giving birth naturally is only one of a littany of reasons why most people choose homebirth.

Amber Lion - thank you for that information, i think it's a really valuable inclusion in the discussion. People need to understand what the legal repercussions are (or could be), should a hospital transfer occur, in order to make an informed decision.


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## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

Parental Drug Use As Child Abuse, state by state:
http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwi...showSearchForm


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## sg784 (Dec 19, 2004)

Unauthorized drug testing of pregnant women ruled illegal act

We could debate the "natural" vs "unnatural" for ever.

There are so many studies that fail to show mj as a danger to the baby.
The only ones that do are not CONTROLLED studies, they include mothers who used other drugs as well. On top of that, they are sponsored by government agencies (supporting the "war on drugs" )

All controlled, privately funded studies show no difference, or a difference in FAVOR of the mj using group.

If someone wanted to use MJ while pregnant, during labor, or whenever, for that matter, I would only suggest that the person do some real digging and truly inform themselves.

Just like we inform ourselves about BF vs FF, western med vs alternative med, circ vs intact, vax vs selective vax vs no vax.


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

Like others here, if mj is OK or not morally or even medically is not so much the question. The issue is that it is unequivically and unquestionably illiegal in the United States. To me, it would not be worth the risk- the risk of having CPS become involved in my life, of becoming subject to legal measures, having to worry about tests, etc.

Sure. Birth hurts. But what would hurt a million times more would be turning the beautiful birth experience into some sort of event that caused trauma to me and my family by becoming a pot fiasco. Instead of remembering a beautiful event, remebering the tests and the nurses and the social workers and worrying about all that... Not worth it.


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## baby_baby_mommy (Sep 19, 2007)

Smoking anything during pregnancy or labor seems unwise to me, if not for your own health then for those around you. Why pollute the air for others? Especially with a child already in the house (per OP's sig).


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## Mamatolea (Jan 17, 2007)

Only Meth abuse mentioned in NH, so I am not too concerned.


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## ltk (Jul 6, 2005)

Amberlion thanks for your posting. And thank you to the person who provided the link, state by state.

Based on the discussion, it's clear many of us have/will consider mj as a part of our birth. It's a personal decision and can only be made with thorough information/research. There are other reasons I am debating this in my heart/head and that would be whether I would want any kind of emotional interference here. It is a beautiful moment, that I will be sure not to miss! A little MJ won't interfere with that. NOt gonna smoke a J in the hospital right before her head pops out. But I do believe it's medicinal just like other herbs I may take in my life and thus we need to gauge the individuals response.

I do have to say I resent the person who says I am polluting the air, especially with a little one in the house. For one, I don't believe MJ is a pollutant/carcinogen, as tobacco would be. And furthermore, I don't sit around blowing pot smoke in my toddlers face. Pregnant or non-pregnant mary jane participant, it happens after he goes to bed. Thanks for your concern for my child's lungs. Presumptive judgement just isn't helpful in this community.

But to all you others out there, I am loving the conversation and the knowledge we are generating on the topic. Not talking about it doesn't make it go away.


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## baby_baby_mommy (Sep 19, 2007)

It's one thing if you choose to smoke and know what you're doing, but I don't think deluding yourself that smoke, of any kind, is not a pollutant is anything but ignorant. Many studies and articles on the downsides of ANY smoke are widely available. Here's one BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7150274.stm

"Tobacco and cannabis smoke contain the same carcinogenic compounds and depending on which part of the plant is smoked, cannabis smoke can contain more of them but, whereas nicotine activates these carcinogenic compounds, THC has been shown to inhibit them in mice cells. THC is very likely to have protective effects against the carcinogens present in smoke in humans too, but cannabis smoke remains nonetheless carcinogenic."

I'd advocate for another method of consumption, like eating, though I know the "dosage" is more difficult to control that way.


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

I know a woman who smoked in labor and though she was a regular and actually sort of heavy pot smoker, being high wigged her out and she actually stopped progressing. I guess she got too far into her head and thought herself into dysfunctional labor. She ended up in a c-section for failure to progress. So you'd have to think about what it does to your thoughts (if anything) and how you would react if there were any problems during labor while you were stoned.


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## Barcino (Aug 25, 2004)

Sounds like a really bad idea to me. First I would be concerned about risks to the baby. *I* would never do MJ but much less much much less pregnant. And being high does not equal a good birth experience in my opinion. I want to have my all my senses with me when I birth.


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## gentleearthmama (Jan 2, 2008)

*


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## Barcino (Aug 25, 2004)

Well if I question an epidural I for sure also question mj. Just because it is natural doesn't mean that it cannot have an effect. I have never smoked mj but I have been around it years ago (high school in europe) and even second hand exposure affected me badly so no way that with that experience I would want my baby around it. To me just because it is natural does not mean I am going to assume it is safe. I felt extremely lethargic and out of control JUST with second hand exposure. Obviously she can do what she feels comfortable with but that is my opinion on the subject with the experience I have had with it and what I know labor to be like.


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## gentleearthmama (Jan 2, 2008)

*


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

I just read Minnesota's and they are very clear on it being highly illegal. If for whatever reason you have to have your baby in the NICU (homebirth transfer or hospital birth) they will run a tox screen on a baby, and I think that is probably true in every state.

I personally wouldn't ever put MJ into my unborn babies system. It is your choice to smoke or not, but your baby has no say in the matter.


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *akilamonique* 
I think a drug test and an Aids test is done automatically when you go in the hospital.

Nope. Not true.


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## arpetree1 (May 8, 2007)

I would just be worried about being zoned out and not totally in tune with the birth.
They cannot take your baby away just for a +pot.


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## wildflowermama (Jan 13, 2002)

Labor hurts. I don't think pot would do anything for the pain anyway.

I honestly can't give anyone who chooses pain relief during labor any grief because I know that during labor for me, I sure do think about it. I'll avoid it unless medically needed. But, I certainly can't tell anyone else they are wrong for choosing it.


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## sg784 (Dec 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arpetree1* 
I would just be worried about being zoned out and not totally in tune with the birth.
They cannot take your baby away just for a +pot.

repeating what has already been said,clarified, and explained again...

If youre ZONED OUT, HIGH, "too far into your mind", stoned, baked, insert word for "messed up" here....Then its not MEDICINAL use. Its recreational.

The OP and anyone else talking about the medicinal use of MJ is not advocating, or even speaking of the recreational use (point of which is to get high, or any other word above) But we are talking about the medicinal use.

And why does everyone think you have to SMOKe mj in order to partake of it? you can use a vaporizer, bake with it, make tea with it, many many other ways of getting the desired MEDICINAL effects without actually smoking.

Let me delve into this more deeply.

Marijuana is an herb. no different than any other. If teenagers commonly used sassafras to get "high" (which they can by the way) would you cringe and say Oh, *I* would never.......and judge those who do?

name another herb used for medicinal purposes during pregnancy. OH, red raspberry leaf! Do you think the only way to use it it to smoke it? of course not. And red raspberry leaf is an oxytocic is it not? isnt that why its considered a uterine toner? You can feel free to correct me if Im wrong.

Just because with recreational use its "popular" to smoke mj, doesnt mean its the only way, or even preferred way by people using for medicinal purposes.


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## barefootpoetry (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sg784* 

name another herb used for medicinal purposes during pregnancy. OH, red raspberry leaf!

Totally OT here but you should have seen the look on my BIL's face when he came over the day I got my shipment of RRL in the mail. Three 1-pound Ziploc bags sitting on the kitchen table looking a helluva lot like YOU KNOW WHAT!









For me, the worry about being stoned comes from the fact that I hardly ever partake anymore, I don't think I've smoked in over six months. So my tolerance is about nil, and in order to take a few good hits to relax me, I'd probably wind up baked.







It's not that I think I'll be sitting there puffing on a huge rasta spliff getting wasted, it's that I KNOW what a wimp I am when I haven't been smoking and how high I can get off just a little bit as a result, esp. if it's good stuff.

I have never tried to make tea out of it. How much would you use?


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## lovin2bmama4 (Jul 15, 2008)

I know for a fact that they are now doing drug testing on pregnant moms at hospitals. They also do drug testing on new borns. Also anytime you have blood work at doctors office that gets sent to hospital. I believe this is a violation against our rights. Im a mother of 3 and one on the way. (2 living 1 resting with god)
Went to hospital for sugar test at that time they tested me for MJ without my concent. Three days later I had child protective services knocking on my door. Mind you there was a very small trace of MJ in my system. The CPS worker proceeded to tell me they would take my baby at birth if I or my baby tested positive for MJ. The CPS worker also questioned my Two teenage children. CPS threatened to take my children and my baby if I tested positive again.
I would advice anyone who is using MJ or any other drug not to do so till the baby is born..... I live in a state where you can have an abortion up to 6 mths and they dont even consider the unborn child a living being till birth.. But at the same time violate your right by doing unlawful drug testing without prior concent.. I would also like to add my reason for even using MJ was severe morning sickness. Wasnt Getting High! I am totally clean now and will never touch again.... I love my children and would never do anything to hurt them!







:


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## lovin2bmama4 (Jul 15, 2008)

louisianna. Very sad.. Poor girl.


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## sparkysgirl (Feb 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *i*wish* 

"Medical" marijuana is being studied for use with morning sickness...

Thats what I used it for, that was the only way I could eat anything the first 3 months.


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## Jojo F. (Apr 7, 2007)

This is interesting. I mean, the use of synthetic pain killers, which does OBVIOUSLY effect the baby are widely used and no one gives it a second thought- well, except for us







- but the mention of MJ is just, gasp, horrific!! It's an illegal plant!!

I really think it's sad that a mother could get into trouble for smoking MJ. Since being pregnant I used it once for a bad headache that would just not go away, one puff and I was good. No strain on my liver or kidneys from a synthetic drug.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

My midwife was fine with moderate mj during pregnancy, but she did not recommend it for labor pain management. In her experience (25+ yrs as homebirth midwife in Northern CA) she has seen it stall out labor and slow things down. Not exactly the effect we are going for, yk?









She did, however, recommend it for after birth pain relief.


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## vegemamato (Jul 4, 2007)

so, uhh, I know this mama who took a hit in labor. she was 6-7 cm when she stalled -the first time- so she came to MDC







... she was searching for yoga moves, herbal tinctures and images of the ocean when she noticed the bong..

after a brief meditation, she decided to try some water and sit on the birth ball for a bit (munch a cracker or two). when she stood up though, owwwweeeeee! A wave hit, knocking her downward..

And labor progressed. she was relaxed enough to just go with the flow of her body, sip some fluids in the pool and sing along to her birth music (loudly and with conviction).

So, yeah, _she_ did it, had an awesome UC and would probably do it again









just sayin'...


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## Lucysmama (Apr 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 

I personally wouldn't ever put MJ into my unborn babies system. It is your choice to smoke or not, but your baby has no say in the matter.

I totally agree.


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## apelilae (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamameg* 
My midwife was fine with moderate mj during pregnancy, but she did not recommend it for labor pain management. In her experience (25+ yrs as homebirth midwife in Northern CA) she has seen it stall out labor and slow things down. Not exactly the effect we are going for, yk?









She did, however, recommend it for after birth pain relief.

I agree with this thought too. It would make sense. My Gma was around a hemp farm and midwives in her early years. She remembers it being used during the early stage to help them calm and sleep and used when the birth was going too fast then for after pains, but not for traditional pain relief as it could slow things. The pain is there for a good reason.

As much as we may love sweet MJ, it does pose certain legal risks, but few health risks. Personally, out of everything in life, birth is the one thing I'd want to be fully present in. I do know of some who did choose this option with good outcomes and no legal issues. It's really what you feel comfortable with (obviously)


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## SimplyRochelle (Feb 21, 2007)

http://www.druglibrary.org/SCHAFFER/...can-babies.htm

A nice article about prenatal mj exposure. It was done with women who were heavy users in Jamaica. Compare that to women who smoke cigarrettes. Now THAT should be illegal.


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## vagabondbaby (Jul 24, 2008)

I used marijuana during my pregnancy and, although there were no effects on the baby, I did get drug tested (without knowing it) and within hours of having my baby I was involved with social services. The state took me to juvenile court and accused me of child abuse. They did not take her away, but we became "dependent" of the state for the next 8 months. This entailed drug and alcohol counseling, AA, urine and hair strand testing and much more. I am still crying.


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## WaitingForKiddos (Nov 30, 2006)

I'm wondering if one could refuse blood testing in a hospital setting based upon their 'religious' philosophy or because 'it's going to be done at the child ped. when we're discharged.'

I don't have a problem with the idea of weed during pregnancy or labor. I'm not sure what good it would do during labor but, IMO, it's safer than anything one would be injected with during a medicalized birth.


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## hippiemommaof4 (Mar 31, 2008)

Well I used to smoke it a lot when I was younger but I can honestly say I would never do it while pregnant...its not worth the consequences to me of having possibly 5 of my children taken away. I know that some people dont agree but I think its a poor choice to make esp if you are going to be going to the hospital because you just never know what could happen. If you knew for a fact that you were going to stay home and birth and everything would be ok then there would probably be a much lower risk. If you could handle the possiblity of them taking your child if anything happened or the what ifs and the unknown then you are an adult and should make that choice wisely. I understand that you want to do it to help but its not worth what it could cost you and those are just IMVHO!


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## ashley1972 (Jun 25, 2005)

Totally not worth the risk involved - both legally and more importantly the exposure to the baby.


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## Mrsboyko (Nov 13, 2007)

I have tried MJ for back pain a few times and every time, it has caused the pain to intensify 5 fold. I have tried it for headaches, and it made them worse. Am i the only one it affects like that? i certainly wouldn't want labor pain intensified in any way, so I will not be using it.


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## WaitingForKiddos (Nov 30, 2006)

I dunno'. It helps my headaches quite a bit. However, there have been times where it made me REALLY anxious and depressed.


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## Erdbeer (Dec 17, 2007)

I've wondered the same thing about using mj during labor. For me, it has helped with some things like period cramps and headaches, but I sometimes have knee pain and when I use mj, I notice I seem to feel the pain more in my knee after using it.

I'm curious to hear what the OP's experience was during labor. I think I would consider using it during a HB, but not for pain relief, because the effects are so mild on me that I just don't think it would help dull the pain. But it certainly does have a very relaxing effect and eliminates nausea and for me, it totally gets me focused.

One thing I would be concerned about is the fact that it tends to dry me out, if you know what I mean. When I use it, my mouth, eyes, etc get dry, and I would be a bit concerned about my birth juices drying up!


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## ~Yola (Sep 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiepunk* 

i personally wouldn't use it for pain management. the amount i think it would take to really help with pain would be too much for me to be able to stay focused and present. but it seems like using it in early labor, similarly to how you might with a small glass of wine would be OK - to allow you to relax and maybe get some sleep so you're ready for the more difficult stuff to come.









:

My MW recomended I have a toke or two to help me relax and let labour progress. I'd been having prodromal labour for three days non-stop, and was starting to get stressed about Dh and my Mum missing so much work while they waited on Baby.

I'm lucky enough to have easy access to organic outdoor in a variety of potencies, so I picked some that had a nice body-stone but not a mind altering effect.

Susan Weed recomends its use to ease tension or emotional stress that is stalling labour as it can help relax your minds contolling tendencies and bring your attention to the needs of your body, as well as strengthen contractions (it's an ocytocic herb). She does caution that smoking offeres the most control over dosage, tea (and I would imagine eating it) can lead to overdose as the effects are slow, cumulative in effect (it can take hours to be able to gauge the full effect) and too large a dose can cause you to become lethargic, hallucinate or enter a trance-like state, all of wich would be counter productive to being present while you Birth and greet your Baby!

That said, I don't do hospitals, and I live in BC, Canada....slightly different climate when it comes to MJ use







I never felt the need to worry about drug tests being done on me or my Baby, and even if one was done, I don't think anyone would be shocked unless they didn't find it! lol


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
Like others here, if mj is OK or not morally or even medically is not so much the question. The issue is that it is unequivically and unquestionably illiegal in the United States. To me, it would not be worth the risk- the risk of having CPS become involved in my life, of becoming subject to legal measures, having to worry about tests, etc.

Sure. Birth hurts. But what would hurt a million times more would be turning the beautiful birth experience into some sort of event that caused trauma to me and my family by becoming a pot fiasco. Instead of remembering a beautiful event, remebering the tests and the nurses and the social workers and worrying about all that... Not worth it.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barcino* 
Sounds like a really bad idea to me. First I would be concerned about risks to the baby. *I* would never do MJ but much less much much less pregnant. And being high does not equal a good birth experience in my opinion. I want to have my all my senses with me when I birth.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucysmama* 
I totally agree.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *hippiemommaof4* 
Well I used to smoke it a lot when I was younger but I can honestly say I would never do it while pregnant...its not worth the consequences to me of having possibly 5 of my children taken away. I know that some people dont agree but I think its a poor choice to make esp if you are going to be going to the hospital because you just never know what could happen. If you knew for a fact that you were going to stay home and birth and everything would be ok then there would probably be a much lower risk. If you could handle the possiblity of them taking your child if anything happened or the what ifs and the unknown then you are an adult and should make that choice wisely. I understand that you want to do it to help but its not worth what it could cost you and those are just IMVHO!


Quote:


Originally Posted by *ashley1972* 
Totally not worth the risk involved - both legally and more importantly the exposure to the baby.

Yeah, all of the above. I have a big problem with MJ anyway, but this is a definite *NO* for me.


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## leerypolyp (Feb 22, 2005)

Oh, Lordy.

WON'T SOMEBODY PLEEEEEEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!?!?
:nana:

In this case I do find the legal argument to be more compelling than when it is applied to occasional use -- because you very well MAY be going into an environment where you can't control who tests you for what, etc.

The whole "babies don't choose" argument carries no weight with me. Babies don't choose _anything_, yo. We are parents and we make choices for our babies and families, weighing risks and benefits. The medical risk of occasional mj use to the baby is demonstrably nonexistant, so the only things I would take into account are chances of legal issue according to your situation, and how you think it might act on you in labor.

I have noticed in the past that it does intensify headaches and such for me. However, if you have read Spiritual Midwifery, know that whenever anybody says "stoned," they aren't being metaphorical.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:

However, if you have read Spiritual Midwifery, know that whenever anybody says "stoned," they aren't being metaphorical.
Have you birthed at the Farm? Do they give women illegal drugs during labour?


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## vagabondbaby (Jul 24, 2008)

My use of marijuana during pregnancy was medical. I did my research and felt that the drugs offered by my dr. for morning sickness and even severe anxiety/depression were potentially more harmful than the thc.


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## Gail2345 (Jun 27, 2008)

I saw this thread a few days ago and wasn't going to reply because I feel like all points have been basically covered. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it though, so I'm going to post my thoughts.

#1 I should probably start off by saying that my philosophy on pot differs from the original posting. I don't have a problem with people smoking it (or eating, steeping, etc) and in most cases, I think that it is less serious when used in a recreational sense than alcohol (but that's a totally different topic). However, I don't agree that using marijuana during pregnancy is a good idea. Ginger is a great herbal remedy for nausea, although I do admit that it doesn't work for everyone.

#2 I will also agree that pot is indeed "natural" but many things are "natural" that still modify our hormones, brain functions, and body chemistry. "Natural Childbirth," in my mind, IS the process of giving birth WITHOUT outside interference/involvement ("natural" substance or not).

#3 I feel like our job as carriers for our children is to introduce as few outside irritants as possible. I try to eat organic to avoid pesticide residue. I wouldn't have caffeine in my pregnancy, nor would I have any other substance (illegal or not) that may harm my baby. I think that the fundamental difference is that you may believe that MJ is not harmful to your baby. Perhaps not, but I wouldn't take the chance. It does however alter the user's mental state--what's to say that it isn't doing the same to the baby during an important stage of brain development?

Now having said that, Do I think that using marijuana during the birth of a child (not throughout the pregnancy, mind you) will harm him/her? Probably not--but I also wouldn't consider it "natural childbirth" either.

This is one of those cases, where you really have to weigh the possibilities (not the likelihood) of occurrences. Do I think it is worth it. No.


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## applecider (Jul 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vagabondbaby* 
My use of marijuana during pregnancy was medical. I did my research and felt that the drugs offered by my dr. for morning sickness and even severe anxiety/depression were potentially more harmful than the thc.









:


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## desertpenguin (Apr 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mrsboyko* 
I have tried MJ for back pain a few times and every time, it has caused the pain to intensify 5 fold. I have tried it for headaches, and it made them worse. Am i the only one it affects like that? i certainly wouldn't want labor pain intensified in any way, so I will not be using it.

i think it depends on the person and the nature/cause of the pain. i had tried mj for headache relief twice in the past and it was definitely a bad idea. mj and alcohol both make my headaches worse. thankfully with diet and lifestyle modifications i rarely get headaches now, and when i do get them they are usually easy to take care of.


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## leerypolyp (Feb 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
Have you birthed at the Farm? Do they give women illegal drugs during labour?

Spiritual Midwifery was written thirty years ago! A few women I know who were around back in those days have shared that mj was a pretty commonly used labor aid. _In 1975_.


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## hippiemommaof4 (Mar 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leerypolyp* 
Spiritual Midwifery was written thirty years ago! A few women I know who were around back in those days have shared that mj was a pretty commonly used labor aid. _In 1975_.


I am sure that it was common back then I know my parents used it.from what I am under the impression that in labors now they dont use it, they use other natural and safe techniques. A lot of people and even local medical personnel trust the midwives at the farm so I am certain that they probably dont encourage the use of illegal drugs anymore. I also do not think that they would be willing to put their organization at risk either so...thats just my understanding.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Okay, i must have a new edition. There are birth stories from the late 90's that refer to everything feeling high. I can't imagine the Farm would stay open now if they routinely offered illegal drugs for labour? I mean, CPS sounds crazy over in the states anyway, i can't imagine such a high profile place wouldn't have come under scrutiny.


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## hippiemommaof4 (Mar 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
Okay, i must have a new edition. There are birth stories from the late 90's that refer to everything feeling high. I can't imagine the Farm would stay open now if they routinely offered illegal drugs for labour? I mean, CPS sounds crazy over in the states anyway, i can't imagine such a high profile place wouldn't have come under scrutiny.

I dont think they use high in that sense after the 70s haha kwim? I think they mean the high you get after having a baby or right before. I have had that "high" after having a baby, I just had a lot of energy and was elated to have a new baby. I think thats the kind of "high" they mean probably.


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## redebeth (Apr 23, 2006)

I have to chime in here... I've read and reread a really old version of that book and I never got the impression they were talking about drugs.

They refer to feeling 'high' and 'psychedelic' throughout their labor and births, but they are talking spiritually, IMO. I also must add, while I am sure there was plenty of reefer around, I doubt the midwives were packing bongs in their birth kits.

My midwife spent time there, I'll ask her.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I have to say the reason i questioned it was because i felt the same. Also although it isn't the same thing they are VERY explicit and clear about the use of alcohol to slow premature labour, when this is thoroughly frowned upon now (i mean using it for days/weeks to keep the baby in) and so i don't see why they would allude to mj use rather than just say it, and say (as they do with alcohol) that there are other things they use now.


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## leerypolyp (Feb 22, 2005)

Y'all! Just because people were doing it there, doesn't mean the midwives were passing it out!









I do know some women who were there at the time, and reported that, no, "stoned" was not always being used figuratively. Not that they didn't use words like stoned and high and psychedelic in more imaginative senses -- but yes, back in the day, it did happen.

And alcohol is still a technique utilized sometimes for premature labor -- but the important thing is that it was never illegal. Even in the 1970s, mj was still not the kind of thing that you would be frank about in a text.

These days, I am certain that there is no way that any midwives are administering mj to clients! I can't imagine!

But my point in bringing it up in the first place was that use of mj in labor is not unprecedented, nor horrifying. Susun Weed recommends it in the Wise Woman Herbal for the Childbearing Year, as well.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/russo-ob.pdf
Here's a link about cannibis' role in ob/gyno field

Hormones
Effects of chronic marijuana use on testosterone, luteinizing hormone, follicle stimulating &#8230;
http://www.anesth.uiowa.edu/readabst...p?PMID=1935564
Marijuana: interaction with the estrogen receptor
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/co...ract/224/2/404

I myself embrace marijuana as a medicinal herb and will be openly using it to manage my labor pain.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaffNowCryLater* 
Can someone explain why weed can't contribute to low birth weight or prematurity but tobacco does?

Genuine question.

Most of the health risks associated with tobbacco have to do with the additives and preservitives they use. Cigaretes in their natural form, while they do cause an addiction to nicotine, are generally not unhealthy.

Here are many other herbs that are safe to smoke and used medicianally
http://home.teleport.com/~howieb/smoking/smoke5.html

Smoking Cannabis Does Not Cause Cancer Of Lung or Upper Airways
http://ccrmg.org/journal/05aut/nocancer.html

No association between lung cancer and cannabis smoking in large study
http://www.cannabis-med.org/english/...l.php?id=219#2

Marijuana Smoking Found Non-Carcinogenic
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Hematolo...Cancer/tb/3393

CLAIM #4: MARIJUANA CAUSES LUNG DISEASE
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabi...is_myth4.shtml


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Early on in this thread people talk about the repercussions of "peeing dirty" at the hospital. Has this actually happened to anyone? I feel like that threat is being passed on unsubstantiated. I will have to ask my MW.


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## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kriket* 
Early on in this thread people talk about the repercussions of "peeing dirty" at the hospital. Has this actually happened to anyone? I feel like that threat is being passed on unsubstantiated. I will have to ask my MW.

In my state, a pregnant woman can be screened for illegal substances at any point in pregnancy without consent. A newborn baby can be drug tested for up to 30 days after birth, without consent.

A friend of mine had a premature baby, by emergency CS (major placental abruption, they both almost died), and they tested the baby within 6 hours of delivery, even though the kid was fighting for his life...
This friend had checked herself into rehab about 2 months prior (she was completely clean and was doing the rehab as a part of an old charge-- she had just not gotten a bed because the place was packed for like 3 years)... Anyway, because she went to rehab, her doc checked her urine at every office visit. She didn't know he was doing it until she requested all of her records for the preemie stay at the children's hospital... Now, I understand they did have a _reason_ to test her, she freely admitted to going to rehab- but they still did not tell her they were testing.

So, anyway, *in my state*, at least, they can test you at any point. And they will if they want to. And if it comes back dirty, social services and police will be notified.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

thixle: Thanks for the story. Your friend what checked into rehab for pot? I understand that people can become addicted to anything but, just double checking that you were talking about pot.


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## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kriket* 
thixle: Thanks for the story. Your friend what checked into rehab for pot? I understand that people can become addicted to anything but, just double checking that you were talking about pot.

Kind of-- it was a DUI and she had marijuana paraphernalia in the car (on her wedding night of all things, too). She did have a history of meth use (like most young poor people in my region), so in the end she was sentenced to rehab for alcohol and marijuana, it was in the paperwork. Not that she was "addicted" to pot-- I don't think it is a physically addictive substance...
Her tox screens from the doctor's office were full panel: meth, coke, pot, alcohol, you name it, they tested her urine for it at every standard visit. And they did a full panel on the babe the day he was born.

*I'm a long term smoker from way, way back. I haven't had any since I found out how hard core they were testing my friend.







I mean, no one has a reason to suspect me of smoking, BUT, I'm planning a UC and I know they would test the baby first thing. I'm actually a little worried that because I have smoked so many years, I or the baby might test positive anyway, even though it's been months.







I know thc stores in fat cells, but my google skills (or lack of scientific research) are getting me nowhere. I've heard that a long term smoker will have thc "dump" into their system when they quit, so if anyone has info, please pm me







:


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## AugustLia23 (Mar 18, 2004)

Has smoking the ganja ever caused proven harmful effects to baby? I'd like to see it shown.


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## opportunityknocks (Oct 9, 2008)

legal or not, i dont think it is a good idea to smoke pot while pregnant or for pain management..

i rather the epidural than pot..


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *opportunityknocks* 
legal or not, i dont think it is a good idea to smoke pot while pregnant or for pain management..

i rather the epidural than pot..

welcome to mothering

You're probably in the minority on that thought.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *opportunityknocks* 
legal or not, i dont think it is a good idea to smoke pot while pregnant or for pain management..

i rather the epidural than pot..

I have to say that I agree with this. With my epidural I was carefully monitored for any complications that might arise - if a mom were to come to the hospital after smoking at home and is in need of an emergency C/S there is a definite risk of harmful interaction with the anaesthesia necessary for surgery.


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## PicklinQueen (Aug 21, 2008)

what an excellent thread: thank you for all the links to various articles etc.
I've used MJ a few times during my pregnancy, and am also concerned about THC "dump" and hospital testing. I did alot of research online before smoking while preggers, and was unable to find anything that proved a negative correlation between prenatal MJ consumption and health issues for baby.
However, before pregnancy, I was a heavy user, and am concerned about whatever has been stocked in my fat cells (bountiful as they are!).
I also have a question for you knowledgeable ladies out there: is tch passed through breastmilk? In what amounts? I'm worried about *if* I resume a higher level of consumption (mind you, this isnt about getting high. I self-medicate for anxiety, depression and insomnia, largely prefering MJ to other, more toxic drugs. Have been doing so for years, with zero adverse effects on my physical and mental health. In fact the hardest thing while pregnant has been reducing my consumption, and dealing with the ensuing insomnia and depression) while breastfeeding, if A) my LO would test positive if tested and B) whether my LO would get the effects of "getting stoned" or "high".
I wouldnt want to intoxicate LO, and am concerned about the amount of fat in breastmilk carrying concentrated amounts of THC into such a little body.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Have you ladies that are anti pot in labour, have you ever smoked pot? I think a lot of people vilify a drug that is less 'harmful' then alcohol because they have never tried it and honestly, don't know what they are talking about.

PicklinQueen: there is a really good (and really long) pot in pregnancy thread around here somewhere. I've also smoked during PGcy its the only way I could keep dinner down some days. Mind you, I have 1/2 a bowl once-twice a week.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

i have a charge on my record form 12 yrs ago. when i had DD they tested the first diaper for drugs. i would quit smoking pot at least 2 or even 3 months before your due date. there will be no "dirty" test. everyone will be clean. then when you get home i wouldnt reccomend starting up again until 3 months pp. i dont have any data. but my doc reccomended both the quitting 2 months before and waiting till babe was older. ftr, i have never noticed a difference in an lo after the mom has smoked. but any mom i have seen smoke and bf didnt smoke any more than was needed to treat the issue. also , just to think about, co sleeping with an infant who cant roll over or anything while high is dangerous. jmo. i personally would wait till lo is at least 6 months. there are lots of studies on the internet. i hope you can find some that help.


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## MomtoXane (Aug 21, 2005)

Here is a link on breastfeeding - http://www.kellymom.com/health/lifestyle/marijuana.html


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## onlyAngil (Jan 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
I have to say that I agree with this. With my epidural I was carefully monitored for any complications that might arise - if a mom were to come to the hospital after smoking at home and is in need of an emergency C/S there is a definite risk of harmful interaction with the anaesthesia necessary for surgery.

Just what is this "_definite_ risk of harmful interaction"?

People keep telling me there is a risk, but no one ever seems to know or at lest be able to tell me what the risk is.

I'm not saying there is not one, just want to know what it is.

~Thanks


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

I agree about waiting until baby is older to start up again. I couldn't and wouldn't want to smoke and care for an infant. Now, if LO is 6 or so months old and with grandma for the evening you better believe I'm pumping a bottle and getting BAKED!


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
I have to say that I agree with this. With my epidural I was carefully monitored for any complications that might arise - if a mom were to come to the hospital after smoking at home and is in need of an emergency C/S there is a definite risk of harmful interaction with the anaesthesia necessary for surgery.

I smoked right before going under anaesthsia(to calm my nerves) and have never had a reation, When I once told the anaesthiologist while I was waiting for it to kick in he said that he would be more concerned if I had had a drink the night before.
Also I would like to point out that pot does different things to different people, and it also depends on the strain, but not all moms get "high" from it, and not all moms get "knocked out" by it either.
Also legal reasons for not doing it are not the same as medical reasons. Not every hospitals steals diapers, and some moms here have access to health care that requires we know what tests they are doing, no suprises, and we always have a right to refuse without giving a reason.

I really must find you some of my in depth past posts that talk about how infants in the womb and breastfed do not ingest or are effected by THC, only the already reacted and broken down "peices" of the compound, and that drug tests don't test for THC they only test for these peices, which creates a false assumption that an infant has been exposed to THC in such a way that it has reacted within it body and affected it in any way. It is physically impossible for your child to become "high" through you because of the rate and speed that THC metabolizes withing your body before it can be processed and passed to your child. Well that pretty much sums it up, but I'll still try to find it.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

since pot now makes me totally panicky and horrible feeling, my personal answer is no







for you though? i see nothing wrong with it!


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## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
... only the already reacted and broken down "peices" of the compound, and that drug tests don't test for THC they only test for these peices, which creates a false assumption that an infant has been exposed to THC in such a way that it has reacted within it body and affected it in any way. It is physically impossible for your child to become "high" through you because of the rate and speed that THC metabolizes withing your body before it can be processed and passed to your child. Well that pretty much sums it up, but I'll still try to find it.

I'd love to see the studies!!! I have read something similar before.

PicklinQueen- I have never seen a baby/child "act high" or lethargic or anything else from the mother smoking. And I've seen several mother/baby pairs that have just smoked. One of them has a chronic illness that she could get a medical mj card for if she lived in another state and on some days, her mj consumption was quite high *ahem* Her preschooler can read and write and has excellent motor skills (rivaling a 6 year old on all the charts). Another has a 9 month old that is the picture of health and alertness and is beginning to walk already. If anything, the LOs I know whose mothers smoke are more "advanced" and "well-behaved" because their mommies are less stressed/depressed/sleep deprived/in pain and can take care of their children better with the occasional (and sometimes daily) use of mj for medicinal purposes... and about half of those I know that smoke also breastfeed.


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

An acquaintance of mine entered the hospital in labor, both she and her husband reeking of pot (he grew top strain marijuana - the very very stinky kind - and apparently they had a puff on their way to the hospital). I'm not sure if the powers that be took temporary custody or not - I can't remember, unfortunately. I do remember that she was not allowed to breastfeed because she had drugs in her system. I guess smelling like pot gave them cause to test her and subsequently decide that FORMULA was healthier for babe than breastmilk with mj in it.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thixle* 
I'd love to see the studies!!! I have read something similar before.


That's the thing though, there are no studies about this particular matter because all you have to do is read the medical text on exactly how THC from marijuana reacts inside the body and where it all takes place. It is impossible for the THC to reach the child. They don't do studies on it because they know what the findings will be and that it will go against their cause of what they are trying to prove. And without studies they can claim ignorance and not validate these facts. It really all has to do with propaganda.


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## ainh (Jul 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
That's the thing though, there are no studies about this particular matter because all you have to do is read the medical text on exactly how THC from marijuana reacts inside the body and where it all takes place. It is impossible for the THC to reach the child. They don't do studies on it because they know what the findings will be and that it will go against their cause of what they are trying to prove. And without studies they can claim ignorance and not validate these facts. It really all has to do with propaganda.

Actually, I believe it's a little more complicated than propaganda.

I have a close friend who has her PhD in neuroscience and she did her dissertation on the effects of drugs (mostly anti-depressants) on pregnant women and fetuses ... and then the resulting babies.

It turns out that what passes on to the baby is highly dependent on the mother's genetics and how much the placenta "passes" or "pushes". This is why some women can drink a lot with no effect on the baby and others can consume a small amount and end up having a baby with FAS. She said that there are blood tests that indicate whether you're a "passer" or a "pusher", but that they don't know the full story yet.

The problem with this information that they gathered is that what is "okay" for one mom-baby pair isn't necessarily "okay" for another mom-baby pair. Sucks, eh?

I'm guessing that some women pass more or less of the components of THC too, depending on their genetics. Sadly it's not such an easy answer, eh?


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## groovynaturemama (Mar 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *opportunityknocks* 
i rather the epidural than pot..

not me.... an epidural carries a FAR GREATER risk to both mother and baby than MJ ever will. period. a risk of c-section, fetal heart decels, epi complications for the mother, the headache that can occur afterwards for the mother, etc. i'd rather nothing (which is how i birthed the first time and will again come june) than an epi. the thought of a needle being in close proximity to my spinal cord...yeah, i'd take the pot or nothing over that any day.

i will say that smoking _anything_ can decrease oxygen to the placenta, so eating it would probably be better (the strength can be unpredictable, however, and you could end up a lot higher than you'd care to be). the deprivation to the placenta occurs while actively smoking. the oxygen depravation/recovery is comparible to when you breathe again after a long, hard push in the pushing phase of labor. that's about all i know, and it only relates to smoking and how oxygen is compromised.

i'm not for or against it. i'm pro choice on this matter. for me, i think it'd make me too hypersensitive (judging from years past; years long past), and it would not be a good pain management tool for me in labor.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liss_420* 
i will say that smoking _anything_ can decrease oxygen to the placenta,

agreed, thats why quit nicotine (among others reasons) I've been thinking about a "volcano" or other atomizer for this reason, but honestly, how much "smoking" is really involved in smoking? I know I can have 3 hits and be nice. I think I get more smoke sitting in traffic.


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## dawncayden (Jan 24, 2006)

I prefer to be drug free while in labour.


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## PicklinQueen (Aug 21, 2008)

"KRIKET: there is a really good (and really long) pot in pregnancy thread around here somewhere. I've also smoked during PGcy its the only way I could keep dinner down some days. Mind you, I have 1/2 a bowl once-twice a week."

ooo. thanks !! gotta check that one out. mayeb the search will dig it up.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thixle* 
I'd love to see the studies!!! I have read something similar before.

PicklinQueen- I have never seen a baby/child "act high" or lethargic or anything else from the mother smoking. And I've seen several mother/baby pairs that have just smoked. One of them has a chronic illness that she could get a medical mj card for if she lived in another state and on some days, her mj consumption was quite high *ahem* Her preschooler can read and write and has excellent motor skills (rivaling a 6 year old on all the charts). Another has a 9 month old that is the picture of health and alertness and is beginning to walk already. If anything, the LOs I know whose mothers smoke are more "advanced" and "well-behaved" because their mommies are less stressed/depressed/sleep deprived/in pain and can take care of their children better with the occasional (and sometimes daily) use of mj for medicinal purposes... and about half of those I know that smoke also breastfeed.


good to know: thanks for the info! I'm still pretty mitigated: thinking that after January will cut out the MJ till kiddo's born (due in april/march), and maybe not partake till month 3 or 4. I am planning a hospital birth, that's very naturopathic friendly , but maybe not to that extreme? I looked up MAINE on the childservices website but still couldnt get a sense of what consequences legally there may be, so figure I should play it safe. I do NOT want kiddo taken away from us.
Then again, just had humongo blowout with my mom, and called a fellow f(r)iend in desperation and rage, figuring that the rage hormones coursing through my body are way more toxic than a drag or two off MJ. So who knows. As far as BF goes, I generally do not smoke till intoxicated, sleepy or dumb, so am not worried about "passing out" and rolling on baby, or dropping said child etc.
will continue own research, and pass anything valuable on here!

also, Mama2xane, thanks for the link!!!!


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## dziwozony (Aug 27, 2006)

i don't have time to read all the responses right now, but just wanted to chime in that i've had phases of moderate pot smoking throughout my life & have used it medicinally for an upset tummy or headaches or similar such tings. BUT, i used to get really severe period cramps & actually found that it did not help with that at all. in fact, i found myself focusing on the pain more. for me, it was not good for that kind of pain at all. although in california i believe you can get a medial marijuana card for that specific complaint, so it must work for some women...


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ainh* 
Actually, I believe it's a little more complicated than propaganda.

I have a close friend who has her PhD in neuroscience and she did her dissertation on the effects of drugs (mostly anti-depressants) on pregnant women and fetuses ... and then the resulting babies.

It turns out that what passes on to the baby is highly dependent on the mother's genetics and how much the placenta "passes" or "pushes". This is why some women can drink a lot with no effect on the baby and others can consume a small amount and end up having a baby with FAS. She said that there are blood tests that indicate whether you're a "passer" or a "pusher", but that they don't know the full story yet.

The problem with this information that they gathered is that what is "okay" for one mom-baby pair isn't necessarily "okay" for another mom-baby pair. Sucks, eh?

I'm guessing that some women pass more or less of the components of THC too, depending on their genetics. Sadly it's not such an easy answer, eh?

I've been reading about placental push, but my point it that the THC reacts in the mothers body too quickly and by the time it were to reach the placenta or the baby the THC will have been long ago reacted and completely harmless. TCH volitizes very quickly especially in a warm enviroment like our bodies, that's why it must be stored in a cool dark place and cooked proberly. If you are of in your heat or your time in your cooking the result could be dude goodies, and I'm talking 5 degrees or 2 minutes off can volitize the TCH to react and escape into the air nutralized. So no you can't gett your whole house high by cooking and the vapors because the heat and duration distroy it.

Also Herbal antidepressants are react very differently that natural ones, so they can't be lumped in the same group.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liss_420* 

i will say that smoking _anything_ can decrease oxygen to the placenta,

I'm not attacking you in anyway









I just wanted to point out that holding your breath during the scary part of a movie, or swimming and playing in the lake or pool also causes oxygen deprivation, or holding your breath as you pass behind a gas guzzler in the parking lot. I think people have this vision of smokers holding their breaths as long as they can to get the full effects of the smoke, this just isn't always true. But according to this theory I guess we should all stay away from bon fires (a nightly occurance here during the summer0 just incase the wind changes direction. Oh and I shouldn't use my wood stove that backs into the house when the wind blows a certain way some times, instead I should spend $ on baseboards and fill my house with electro feilds.

For smoking a pack a day I believe this argument is valid but not for a few joints a day or at the end of a healthy pregnancy.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dziwozony* 
i don't have time to read all the responses right now, but just wanted to chime in that i've had phases of moderate pot smoking throughout my life & have used it medicinally for an upset tummy or headaches or similar such tings. BUT, i used to get really severe period cramps & actually found that it did not help with that at all. in fact, i found myself focusing on the pain more. for me, it was not good for that kind of pain at all. although in california i believe you can get a medial marijuana card for that specific complaint, so it must work for some women...

It also greatly depends on what strain you smoke. There are 1000s of diiferent pot strains with different genetics and effects, each very different. Some make you sleepy, others make you hungry, some numb your body while others make you extra sensitive, some wake you up in the morning, and others help you forget and be distracted.

I hate it when people say "I tried pot and it didn't work" or "I ttried pot and this happened that I didn't like" because I'm sure that if we had access to the strain names when we bought it and researched when strain families we were looking for I believe that pot would definately relieve almost any symptom. It really is like saying you don't like apples if all you'vwe tried are the ones off the tree in your back yard. Unfortunately people doin't know this, don't ask, and are often unwilling to pay the extra money because they believe that the pot is just stronger when really it is completely different that the cheap stuff most people have access to.

If you seek out the information about strains it really is easily accessable, and if you demand to know the strain names from your dealers you are eccentially empowering the whole pot community to take responsibility for what strains are bought and sold and how effectively it is communicated. You discuss medications effects with your pharmasist, discuss you medication with the dealer too, if they don't know the answers tell them they should either find out or they are losing a customer. Often dealers just don't tell you because they think you don't care and don't understand that you are treating something instead of using it to get high like most of their customers.

So that brings up the conversation of what strain would be most effective for labor. But you can't answer that because everyone wants something different for labor. One mom may want pain relief, while another may want internal focus, or higher senstivity to better connect with the birthing epereince, while another mom my want to zone out so she can let her body take over while she can still "sit back" and observe the miricle.


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## groovynaturemama (Mar 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
I'm not attacking you in anyway








For smoking a pack a day I believe this argument is valid but not for a few joints a day or at the end of a healthy pregnancy.

it is valid anytime you inhale any smoke. it deprives the placenta of oxygen. period. a few joints, inhaling smoke from a bon fire or wood stove, smoking cigarettes. regardless of how long or short your breath is held, the placenta goes through varying degrees of oxygen deprivation (which directly affects the baby). in extreme cases, oxygen deprivation makes your risk of placental abruption far higher, in addition to preventing the normal amount of oxygen carried to the baby.

having said all that, i'm certainly not against smoking mj at all in pregnancy or otherwise. the fact of the matter is that inhaling any type of smoke poses an inherent risk to the baby. now, i'm not saying that risk will necessarily be detrimental in all cases, just that the risk is there, and it should be taken into account. the small amount of oxygen deprivation may be outweighed by the benefit of relief that the mj provdes for the mother in labor, while the low birth weight associated with smoking daily cigarettes, as well as the greater risk of placental abruption would be a risk that certainly outweighed the mother's desire to have her nicotine fix. what it comes down to is an individual risk/benefit analysis. what's right for one mama may no be right for all. i certainly am of the opinion that a mama should be able to choose and assess her and her baby's individual risk (assuming that they are well informed).


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
I think people have this vision of smokers holding their breaths as long as they can to get the full effects of the smoke, this just isn't always true.









yeah, we stop doing that in high school


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## gretae (Feb 3, 2007)

I work in a hospital and they test everyone and report everyone to child protection who tests positive for any kind of "illegal" drug, no exceptions. In my state they will hold your baby at the hospital and they will take him or her from you. As much as I'd love to try mj, I won't because I can't stand the thought of any state agency being involved in my life and my children. sad though, that some helpful silly herb causes such a spaz for beaurocracies.


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## Frunchy Mama (Sep 22, 2008)

I was reading the BBC News article someone posted and I just couldn't help laughing at this statement especially:

"Tobacco from manufacturers has been enhanced and cleaned whereas cannabis is relatively unprocessed and therefore is a much dirtier product."








The whole article had me in disbelief, but that line just tickled me pink!

I have to say I had never thought of using mj for labor, but now that it's been brought up, I really can't see any reason not to use it....as long as it is medicinal use--a very light dose, as someone mentioned, because I would want to be alert. I know that when I smoke, it often makes me very meditative and relaxed and I usually come up with amazingly soothing revelations that affect my life on many levels during and after the "high." It seems like a perfect compliment to hypnobirthing, which I"m looking into trying.

However, I quit smoking a while back, before was preg and thought it best not to smoke while preg for 2 reasons. The first is that i was not absolutely sure it was okay, even tho I thought so, and I KNOW it's better than eating, say, a Big Mac or even breathing in the air at a high traffic intersection probably. And 2. My DH has ill feelings toward mj becasue of how he's seen past friends abuse it and when I did smoke, I felt like i needed to hide it and it made me feel dishonest and paranoid--sucky since it was such a great occasional supplement for me before. But if I can explain it to him and have his support I think I would be able to have a positive experience from it.

I really can't see how using a responsible dose of mj could be seen as diff than something like rescue remedy (which reminds me to put that on my hospital bag list) or aromatherapy. And to compare it to an epi is just crazy IMO! Matter of fact, I find it unbelievable the way a hospital would deal with a baby will a small amout of weed in their system but they advocate and even PUSH all these super harmful drugs into the systems of mothers and babies!!! What a world we live in!!!

As far as legal repercussions.... When I was younger there were some friends of friends of mine who were daily smokers--complete potheads to the fullest--all day every day smokers. When the girl gave birth to her baby after she'd continued her normal mj use during pregnancy, they were questioned and there was a big ordeal at the hospital, but they did not lose their baby. I find it hard to believe that one could actually lose their baby from finding a small dose of mj in their system if that's the case, but yeah, I"m sure it depends on the state. I'm in MI, tho, and it's pretty conservative out here and mj laws are pretty strict.

One last thing...as far as what's a natural birth and what's not. My reasons for wanting a natural birth are not so I can _say_ I did it completely natural, or even know that myself, but because I know the harm that's done to the natural high when drugs and other interventions are introduced into the mix (and the other side effects of those drugs). If mj or another natural herb or supplement didn't interfere or actually enhanced the experience, I can't see why they shouldn't be used--whether you'd consider that a "natural" birth or not.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gretae* 
I work in a hospital and they test everyone and report everyone to child protection who tests positive for any kind of "illegal" drug, no exceptions. In my state they will hold your baby at the hospital and they will take him or her from you. As much as I'd love to try mj, I won't because I can't stand the thought of any state agency being involved in my life and my children. sad though, that some helpful silly herb causes such a spaz for beaurocracies.

I just wanted to add my experience. I work in the postpartum unit of a large hospital and they DO test everyone. It's routine. All moms get blood drawn after birth and a drug screen is included in that. Moms are not notified specifically that they are testing for drugs. It's included in the consent forms you sign at admission. Anyway, we did have one baby taken away but the mom tesed positive for cocaine. There was one mom that was definitely positive for MJ, and this mom and her DH were smoking in the room. The nurses giggled and rolled their eyes and went on with their day.

That said, I stopped using MJ in the 3rd trimester with both kids. I'm paranoid, and I'd hate to have a transfer and get that one nurse who makes an exception and calls the one cranky social worker.


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## Vizionz (Mar 4, 2009)

On March 21, 2001, the Court decided by a 6-3 vote that state hospitals cannot inform police of the drug test results done on pregnant women without their consent.

Ever heard of

Ferguson, Crystal v. City of Charleston, et al.

I think people who give advice and information should research what they say.

I also think people have the right to be informed....

um let's all make it a point to learn something.

Try going to norml.org

and read the information that is unbiased and the government hasn't the ability to taint=)


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## sg784 (Dec 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vizionz* 
On March 21, 2001, the Court decided by a 6-3 vote that state hospitals cannot inform police of the drug test results done on pregnant women without their consent.

Ever heard of

Ferguson, Crystal v. City of Charleston, et al.

I think people who give advice and information should research what they say.

I also think people have the right to be informed....

um let's all make it a point to learn something.

Try going to norml.org

and read the information that is unbiased and the government hasn't the ability to taint=)

The Anti-pot crowd here at MDC thinks norml.org is biased. They spew drug war propaganda left and right and wont look at research , or controlled studies, Im guessing because *gasp* they might end up changing their minds that MJ is the devil!


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

The thing is, anything that decreases pain also has the chance to screw up the delicate balance of hormones you're experiencing in labor. My midwife says that you go to a really low place during labor so that you can go sky high after labor, if that makes any sense. I'd be worried about screwing up that endorphin rush, which is so important for mother and baby bonding, preventing PPD, all that.

Plus, as others said, what if you transferred to the hospital and they found out? If you really need pain relief (and don't want to try the other natural methods like a birth tub, massage, ect), just have a regular medicated hospital birth.

ETA: A lot of people a few pages back were talking about other herbs or supplements used during labor or pregnancy such as castor oil, black cohosh, red raspberry leaf, ect. Here is the main difference I see between those things and MJ, they're not mind/mood altering. And I don't think any of them will have an effect on your endorphins either.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sg784* 
The Anti-pot crowd here at MDC thinks norml.org is biased. They spew drug war propaganda left and right and wont look at research , or controlled studies, Im guessing because *gasp* they might end up changing their minds that MJ is the devil!

Fwiw, I'm not a big fan of that site and I am not anti pot. I think it's a valid treatment for several medical problems, including hyperemesis in pregnancy. I've used it myself during pregnancy #2 when I couldn't keep anything down and nothing else worked.


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## thepoet (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gretae* 
I work in a hospital and they test everyone and report everyone to child protection who tests positive for any kind of "illegal" drug, no exceptions. In my state they will hold your baby at the hospital and they will take him or her from you. As much as I'd love to try mj, I won't because I can't stand the thought of any state agency being involved in my life and my children. sad though, that some helpful silly herb causes such a spaz for beaurocracies.

What state are you in so I know never to move there.


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## starshine1001 (Feb 16, 2008)

:


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

You know, I still can't wrap my mind around why someone would want ANY pain relief in labor if they are going for a natural birth. The whole point is the experience, the bad and the good. Why would you want to risk messing with the complex cocktail of endorphins and hormones during labor? Pot is a drug too.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Talula Fairie* 
You know, I still can't wrap my mind around why someone would want ANY pain relief in labor if they are going for a natural birth. The whole point is the experience, the bad and the good. Why would you want to risk messing with the complex cocktail of endorphins and hormones during labor? Pot is a drug too.

Obviousely this thread is being revisited so I'm not sure if we've gone over this before or not. but....(please don't take this in a snarky way)

According to what you are saying than women should consume nothing during labor. No tea, tincture, no honey, no other herbs or even food, a woman should go into labor and trust that her body is prepared with everything it needs. Technically whether a mother is hydrated or not can affect the outcome of te labor(however in the oppisite way) but in the same sense.
A mothers body tells her she is thirsty and she drinks. A mothers body tells her she is hungry and what she is hungry for and she eats. However when a womans body tells her that she is tense and it is found to a mind relaxation problem that is preventing her from progressing past a cetain point it is the same as dehydration, hunger, or even a stagnant birth setting, there is a need that needs to be met in order for labor to progress normally because of how our minds alter normal labor.

The more that I think about it marijuana isn't a pain killer at all, it is a mind relaxant that unlocks the tension in the mind and thus relaxs the tension connected in the body, the same as a massage, hands just don't fit through our ears but smoke does.

If a woman wants nothing but the experience of birth with no outside influences then it would just make sense to have water birthing chambers that cut off all the senses except for the ones the body produces itself, not music, or visualzition point, not light levels to control, or contact with a hubby, no encouraging voices, or supportive pillows, all of these are outside influences that depending on the woman may have enough of an impact to affect her horomone and endorphin levels.

Not to mention that there are regular marijuana users who incorperate their herb into their day the same as food, water, excercise, tea, because they depend on it for some reason or another to keep them balanced and healthy so their horomones can work properly and not be interfered with by homones caused by emotions they can't turn off such as in the case of depression. I guess I'm seeing it like a diabetic needing their medicatin even though they are in labor, or somebody who depends on thyroid medication. A long labor may warrant a need for these medications depending on how their deficiency is effecting "normal" labor horomones. It doesn't mean they are taking away from their labor experience it means they are allowing themselves to experience it for what it is and not what their medical problems turn it into.

I just thought I would throw in a few new spins on the subject for us to discuss....


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm sorry but, there is no tea or tincture that is the same as a psychotropic drug. Food isn't even in the same realm as pot. I've mentioned that earlier in the thread. Not even close to a valid comparison.

I also have a hard time believing marijuana truly keeps anyone balanced and healthy, I think it does the opposite. But that's just my opinion. I do think it has valid medical uses, but daily use is generally not one of them _except in cases of hyperemsis, cancer treatment, glaucoma, ect_. I think it should be used as the drug that it is, like narcotics. I also do not think it should be used for the treatment of mental illness. But that's a whole other issue, and I am well aware many disagree.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Talula Fairie* 
I'm sorry but, there is no tea or tincture that is the same as a psychotropic drug. Food isn't even in the same realm as pot. I've mentioned that earlier in the thread. Not even close to a valid comparison.


Yes there are! What about Skullcap? Catnip? Motherwart? Elevated levels of oxygen can affect how people behave differently than normal. Caffine is another one. Even cammamillia(why can't I ever spell that word!) is psychotropic.

I really think that people believe the affects of pot are strong and very influencial, when in reality different people react differently to different herbs in different doses, and develope different levels of resisitance. For example some people may feels very out of it, while others may just enter a state of relaxation equivical to curling up on the couche with a heat pad in your pj's, and sometimes when your world is falling apart and about to crumble you need that time out to recenter yourself. Others may be able to release their tension and clear their head just like after a meditation or yoga period.

You have to remember experienced medical marijuana users are able to know how to adjust their doses to meet the immediate need, as well as last as long as possible, so we keep doses on the low side. Some only smoke a joint combined throughout the day in small doses, not bowl after bowl to trip out and play video games all night long and eat pizza.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Those are not mind altering drugs. They do not produce a high or work on brain chemistry and serotonin the same way. Just not the same thing. Caffeine, _maybe_ could be considered mind altering, but barely, and it has to be taken in much larger doses than MJ would to effect the brain at the same level. And again, it does not work on the brain in the same way at all.

This is not something I'm going to change my mind on, I'm sorry to say.

I know quite a few medical marijuana users. I do live in California after all.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

did someone say Marijuana was a narcotic?
According to the government which classified it as such or what?
As far as I've always thought narcotics are more along the lines of cocaine etc...
Marijuana a plant that is generally not processed if the grower knows what they are doing.
Now I am confused..
BTW saying that caffeine MAY be mind altering but barely is ridiculous, it is known to be highly addictive and while I hate coffee and soda and generally all other caffeine products (except for some chocolate yum!) I can say that having worked in a coffee shop it is amazing how miserable people will be before they get that first sip of their precious coffee and then magically the world is right again.









Also I have had some pretty intense teas my friend brought back from India and Nepal and they completely rivaled pot in their mind/body alterations. I would say one of them was even more intense than taking a few puffs from a bowl.

Daily use has some wonderful benefits as well. Would you rather down a glass of wine or smoke a pipe because the effect you are going for is the same. Allowing your body and mind to relax after a stressful day. Just because people go about it differently doesn't make it wrong.
I also have an incredibly difficult time getting to sleep and sleeping soundly at night without smoking a bowl before I go to bed...Before I was pregnant I would smoke before bed every night. There have been periods where I haven't smoked at all for months and the difference in my sleep and waking rested were amazing. I imagine that is a mental thing, but I would much rather do that than take some stupid pill that I could quite possibly get addicted to.







:


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

I did not say marijuana was a narcotic. I said it should be treated in the same was as one: as in, it's a serious drug that should only be used in specific cases. I thought I was pretty clear about that.

I'm LDS (Mormon) and I do not drink coffee or tea or alcohol, only the occasional soda. I am well aware that caffeine can be addictive. That's a moot point in this discussion. Caffeine does not make you hallucinate, it does not make you "high" for the most part. It's a moderate stimulant that can be used in high doses to have a stronger effect. It's just not mind altering in the same way.

As for whether using substances to relax is ok or not, I don't think that's the point of this thread at all. This thread is about medical marijuana in labor.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Talula Fairie* 
I'm sorry but, there is no tea or tincture that is the same as a psychotropic drug. Food isn't even in the same realm as pot. I've mentioned that earlier in the thread. Not even close to a valid comparison.

I also have a hard time believing marijuana truly keeps anyone balanced and healthy, I think it does the opposite. But that's just my opinion. I do think it has valid medical uses, but daily use is generally not one of them _except in cases of hyperemsis, cancer treatment, glaucoma, ect_. I think it should be used as the drug that it is, like narcotics. I also do not think it should be used for the treatment of mental illness. But that's a whole other issue, and I am well aware many disagree.









"I think it should be used as the drug that it is." You don't understand what a serious drug is if you consider marijuana a "serious" drug. By treating it like a narcotic you are putting it in the same category as cocaine, heroin, meth, crack, oxycodones etc.

It is a naturally growing plant that while you might think it has hallucinogenic effects you are far from correct in that statement. Marijuana does not make you hallucinate in any way. It is not LSD or mushrooms or peyote or anything like that. I take it you have never smoked it, which is fine with me but please don't go talking about its effects if you have not experienced them yourself.

There is a huge difference between a "high" which both caffeine and marijuana produce and a hallucinogenic effect which marijuana does not produce.

I don't think many woman would even consider using marijuana during labor if it was actually a hallucinogen. Not the best time to be tripping out when you are trying to get a baby out, but because that is not what marijuana is or does you see so many woman trying it during labor..
A woman who is best friends with my SIL and uses the same midwife smoked during her labor when she was 1-2cm and then went to the hospital and gave birth. She said it greatly aided her in relaxing through those early hours. I'm not saying that would be good for everyone but I fail to see how it is different than other PPs have pointed out, from drinking a strong tea or having a glass of wine..

Incidentally, I don't know if she had a blood test post baby but no one said a word to her about having marijuana in her system. IDK though, we are in MA and it is not exactly high priority on government radar.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Talula Fairie* 
I did not say marijuana was a narcotic. I said it should be treated in the same was as one: as in, it's a serious drug that should only be used in specific cases. I thought I was pretty clear about that.

I'm LDS (Mormon) and I do not drink coffee or tea or alcohol, only the occasional soda. I am well aware that caffeine can be addictive. That's a moot point in this discussion. Caffeine does not make you hallucinate, it does not make you "high" for the most part. It's a moderate stimulant that can be used in high doses to have a stronger effect. It's just not mind altering in the same way.

As for whether using substances to relax is ok or not, I don't think that's the point of this thread at all. This thread is about medical marijuana in labor.

The point of this thread is discussing marijuana as a tool during labor, and during labor reaching a state of relaxation vs being intoxicated to block out sensation are two very different things, just like taking cough syrup and driving vs downing a twelve pack and driving home to recover.

Speaking of which in all my years in the marijuana culture openly as an advocate I have yet to meet a medicinal, or responsible user who has ingested enough THC to hallucinate. as crazy as this sounds the closest I've come to hearing of anybody who actually comes close to hallucinating is when you here from teenagers or young adults who use the drug and have and excuse to act childish and stupid, and are able to say "I'm so high, hehehehehehehe let's play airplanes." It's not because of the pot, it's because the pot opens up existing feelings and brings the core out, which in this case is an immature kid wanting to play and get attention from somebody.
Now you compare that to a mom with Parkinsons who is well rounded, and loving, and responsible, but is so cluttered by the stresses of her life and discomfort. She can ingest 10 times that amount of thc that first time as that teenager to treat her symptoms, but because the core person underneth is a great mom that is what comes out when the rest melts away, freedom to do the most important job.

You want to compare Pot to Cocain and say it should be treated as if it were just as dangerous, and I say that you are gathering your facts from experiences from illrepresenting sources. You may not consume "addictive" substanes but the next time you are baking please rememebr that nutmeg is a very powerful and addictive hallucinogen which can very easily become just as abused and can create just as bad of a picture depending on who uses it as marijuana.

When I have this baby in June you better believe I will have my marijuana right next to all my other birthing supplies from my own doula bag, as well as my herbal treatments for incase of emergency, that way it is there if I need it, especially since a hospital is nowhere in my plans and I need to be responsible for my choices to birth at home by preparing for anything I can handle.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)




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## shakenbake (Nov 19, 2008)

wow and i thought me smoking a cigarette every once and a while was bad i PERSONALLY dont use pot but i guess if you want to thats up to you but id be very upset if i was in the hospital and i could smell it seeing as i am very highly allergic


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shakenbake* 
wow and i thought me smoking a cigarette every once and a while was bad i PERSONALLY dont use pot but i guess if you want to thats up to you but id be very upset if i was in the hospital and i could smell it seeing as i am very highly allergic

I thought all hospitals were non smoking period? I would be extremely impressed if anyone could sneak a smoke of anything in a hospital. weed cigarette, catnip...


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## shakenbake (Nov 19, 2008)

well i was back reading and reading that people are saying mj isnt addictive or a Serious drug
it IS a Gateway drug 15 and 16 year olds do NOT normaly go out and say hey i think ill try heroin today because it sounds fun and i am talking for personal experience
my sister started smoking pot at age 15 and it progressed to heroin by age 18
and i know if she never smokes pot she would never have to search for a better high i might make ALOT of people angry buit i have see this first hand and my sister is now award of the state for the next 6 years because of drugs i DO NOT condone any type of drug ciggs pot caff beer any of it
that being said its totally different to have 1 glass of wine with dinner then it is to drink bottle after bottle till you are so far gone


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shakenbake* 
well i was back reading and reading that people are saying mj isnt addictive or a Serious drug
it IS a Gateway drug 15 and 16 year olds do NOT normaly go out and say hey i think ill try heroin today because it sounds fun and i am talking for personal experience
my sister started smoking pot at age 15 and it progressed to heroin by age 18
and i know if she never smokes pot she would never have to search for a better high i might make ALOT of people angry buit i have see this first hand and my sister is now award of the state for the next 6 years because of drugs i DO NOT condone any type of drug ciggs pot caff beer any of it
that being said its totally different to have 1 glass of wine with dinner then it is to drink bottle after bottle till you are so far gone

I completely empathize with your sister's problems, my older cousin has dealt with heroin addiction and while she is better now there were some rough periods of her stealing from family, disappearing months, a brief stint in jail etc...Interestingly enough though she NEVER smoked marijuana prior to her heroin days...

My point? Is that unfortunately a personal experience does not prove anything. What is proven is that if Marijuana were truly a gateway drug then half the people in this country would be addicted to something far stronger than marijuana.

I don't understand the one glass of wine as opposed to drinking bottle after bottle analogy though? Do you mean that there is a difference between taking a couple puffs from a bowl as opposed to smoking an entire bag of weed? I agree with you there!! Big difference.

Most people as they mature but continue to smoke marijuana end the whole "see how high I can get" thing and move into the smoke a bowl for relaxation, like a a glass of wine... I don't think anyone here is saying a woman in labor would be smoking bowl after bowl.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ldavis24* 
I thought all hospitals were non smoking period? I would be extremely impressed if anyone could sneak a smoke of anything in a hospital. weed cigarette, catnip...










Oh yeah I'm planning a UA homebirth, but even if I do transfer they don't test here anyways and if they did and anything resulted we would stand up and fight it.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I work in Mental Health Services and it is TERRIFYING the number of young people whose symptoms of mental illness (principally depressive and schizoaffective or psychotic type disorders) began after they began using cannabis. The people i speak to are well-educated, in the most part recovered or recovering people, some of whom are medicated and some of whom are not. All are strong, self-aware, determined people. For a few (i would say about 5%) they feel the cannabis use definitely came about as self-medicating behaviour, to counteract their symptoms, but for the rest, they feel the symptoms only began after the marijuana use did.

The use of marijuana is not something i would personally consider, in labour or otherwise. I smoked it a little in University and like alcohol, it did nothing for me. My brain doesn't get high or stoned or drunk on artificial (not my own) substances. I can be so drunk i can't physically stand and all i'm thinking is "you're so dumb, now you can't walk and all your problems are just as they were. And this is not fun." - seriously i think there's something weird with my brain chemistry in that area. I smoked cigarette's on and off an never became addicted either - some people are more resistant to chemical addiction (i am bizarrely addicted to tactile experiences though, my own endorphins definitely do work on my moods and feelings).

But if a woman DID decide to use any drug medicinally during labour, i would think it would be super-important to know exactly where it came from. Like had selected the strain and grown it herself or gotten it from a knowledgeable and trusted source. GIven the number of people i know between 18 and 35 who have serious mental health problems they personally trace back to marijuana use (older people seem to be less affected, perhaps because the commercial plants have changed in recent decades?) i shudder to think the damage that might be done to the baby by the mom smoking even a small amount of randomly aquired marijuana.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
Oh yeah I'm planning a UA homebirth, but even if I do transfer they don't test here anyways and if they did and anything resulted we would stand up and fight it.

You shouldn't have to fight it!!

Slightly off topic, but I am always furious when I think about harassing a mom for having THC in her system (which could be up to a month old as we all know) but so often as soon as a woman gets to the hospital they want to pump her up with all kinds of drugs far more harmful than mj will ever be...

I am sure this has been said before but every time I think about it it makes my blood boil







!

Spend your whole pregnancy being as healthy as possible, don't do this or that or eat this or drink that or smoke this but hey!! As soon as you walk in the door we have the finest selection of high test pharmaceuticals money can buy. Oh and they are completely fine for your baby no effects at all! We wouldn't lie to you! But if you smoked weed at all. watch out! You are an unfit parent and we will take your kid away!


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shakenbake* 
well i was back reading and reading that people are saying mj isnt addictive or a Serious drug
it IS a Gateway drug 15 and 16 year olds do NOT normaly go out and say hey i think ill try heroin today because it sounds fun and i am talking for personal experience
my sister started smoking pot at age 15 and it progressed to heroin by age 18
and i know if she never smokes pot she would never have to search for a better high i might make ALOT of people angry buit i have see this first hand and my sister is now award of the state for the next 6 years because of drugs i DO NOT condone any type of drug ciggs pot caff beer any of it
that being said its totally different to have 1 glass of wine with dinner then it is to drink bottle after bottle till you are so far gone

I sounds like your sister has an addictive personality that could have been manifesting in a different form that wasn't so noticable because it was't so illegal. For example when someone rubs their ears or another comforting place to release endorphins because of prior association with that action, like a mother stroking her hair, or a teddy to cuddle. However that gateway action becaome muted and she went to find a replacement, and once that replacement muted she found another.

Back years I was a cocain addict, yes I smoked pot first, and even smoked pot while smoking crack because the [pot brought it's own effect that coke couldn't replicate. But I didn't smoke it becasue I needed something stronger than pot. I smoked it becasue I sabotaging myself and and hurting because of an inability to deal with my past. There ae so many layers to just how screwed up I was before and where it all came from, but now years later I have worked through all that shit, I've learnt life lessons about myself and stopped comparing. I've grown developed and matured. As I bettered my self I no long needed crack and drinking and cigarettes, and even pot, and didn't withdrawl, didn't crave, didn't relapse, because the trigger was gone and I had been strong enough to work through it and rediscover myself and my control over my life and how I live it. And you know what The only one I still use is the pot. I don't use it like I did before, or even for the same reasons. I use it becasue when researching what I needed to reach a state of balance that maintained the flexability in my life, THC was the most appropriate form of aid, that met my needs, and was worth the factual "side effects".

In natural animals use specific herbs and plants to self medicate and treat all the time, not by study but by instict and listening to their bodies to meet their needs to the point where they will consume a normally known poisonous plant and be treated for the only illness it can treat without killing the host.

When I crave veggies I eat them, When I crave water I drink, when I crave vitamine c all I want is oranges and lemons. And when I've had enough my body tells me and I stop. Yes my body tells me sometimes that what I need to regain my composure is a MJ, no I am not addicted, I can go weeks or months without a singal puff no problem, and come across times where I need a few joints to get through a really bad day, but that's not because I have a dependency on a drug that alters my horomones! It's because I had an unforfilling hospital birth after I believe medical professionals about being prepared for my first birth, and then I had to fight everyone whole frowned upon my choice of alternative childrearing, and conditioned me that my body was wrong. I fought every day for 2 years with post partum depression that nobody but my husband acknowledged or tried to help me with, and one day I realized that all I needed to get better was to turn off all the outside voices in my head so I could hear myself think on all 5 "channels" in my head processing at once.

Yes my horomones are fucked up, but not because of pot, because of people.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ldavis24* 
You shouldn't have to fight it!!



Here you don't really have to unless you are a bad mother to begin with and smoke pot on top of it. For the mothers who are more knowledgable than the medical proffessional, who have done their research and can refer to studies from which they've gathered their information from, as well as show signs of being a good mom and housekeeper while cooperating with them they not only leave you alone but I've actually been able to sit and educate a few while clearing up misconceptions. But if your kids are dirty your food is spoiled, and you sit on your ass all day watching tv it's the pots fault not to bad mothers, but these mothers do need intervention, it's just to bad weed is to blame.

Speaking of which just in case I should be brushing up and pulling up all my studies again on this computer, since I'm in the nesting/preparing stage anyways and runningout of things to do.

"I work in Mental Health Services and it is TERRIFYING the number of young people whose symptoms of mental illness (principally depressive and schizoaffective or psychotic type disorders) began after they began using cannabis. The people i speak to are well-educated, in the most part recovered or recovering people, some of whom are medicated and some of whom are not. All are strong, self-aware, determined people. For a few (i would say about 5%) they feel the cannabis use definitely came about as self-medicating behaviour, to counteract their symptoms, but for the rest, they feel the symptoms only began after the marijuana use did."

I'm sorry but even your first hand experience is unfair to post seeing as you have people that are seeking help for problems, and the full marijuana smoking population isn't taken into account, for all we know with acurat facts your experience with marijuana user may only represent a fraction of a percent of actual users in your area. Not to mention had these people first been exposed to other drugs such as lsd, coke, or heroin(even morphine in a hospital) may draw the same results, so it is unfair to claim the reaction only to Marijuana. It's just that marijuana is natural and common and unfortunately people feel safer trying it first so they allocate the problems as a esult of one particular substance instead of the whole group.


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## tankgirl136 (Dec 13, 2008)

Side point recently it was determined that Caffeine can cause Hallucinations and not in unheard of doses (4 red bulls, 1 1/2 cups of boutique coffee).

http://www.livescience.com/health/09...cinations.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0113203901.htm


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

These people are not seeking help, they work in Mental Health Services too as peer support workers. So they are all out there already telling people with mental health issues to be wary of pot! I do not know the medical history of all my colleagues, but since they number the most self-aware humans i have ever met, i'm pretty sure they have considered the other possible causes or contibuting factors to their illnesses. Some of these people are living unmedicated, recovered lives following illnesses which the medical profession in some cases STILL doesn't recognise recovery is even possible from! None of them states that pot causes mental illness, only that it's a possible trigger and that for many of them they were unaware of their predisposition until the cannabis use triggered their symptoms. They tell people to exercise caution with their drug use (all medications, prescribed and not) and to watch their own responses carefully and identify honestly when things are not-so-great following changes in drugs or lifestyle patterns. They advise people to use suppliersthey know and trust and to be very careful when having to change suppliers or types of supply (for example a different marijuana plant strain or a different generic antipsychotic).

Many many people with no history of allergies in their families still do not give commonly-allergenic foods to their weaning babies so that first exposure can be controlled and when the babe is bigger and stronger. Very few of those babies are actually at risk but people exercise caution anyway. Caution is not harmful.

What is wrong with caution in where one gets one's marijuana? Why would one not exercise caution with WHATEVER one puts into one's pregnant body? Why would believing that marijuana is not inherently harmful for labouring women or their unborn babies therefore mean one should buy what one is told is good pot (but might not be) off a total stranger (whomay or may not know what they're talking about) and use it without a second thought?


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

GoBecGo, I totally agree that one should exercise caution when buying pot, or groceries or anything you ingest.

Most people who are responsible pot smokers don't buy there weed of just anybody. They know and trust the person they get it from. Or they just grow it themselves.

The only times I have bought weed off a complete stranger have been few and far between but I know what I am looking for generally (not always fail safe) and have never had a problem with that either.

I think if I were to smoke in labor, which I don't really plan on at the moment although that may change, I would specifically make sure that my weed was something I had smoked before and knew what to expect from it.

Most younger kids (I am young so that sounds silly to me) just buy whatever they can get without a thought about unfortunately. Then again most younger kids aren't having babies thank goodness.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ldavis24* 
Most younger kids (I am young so that sounds silly to me) just buy whatever they can get without a thought about unfortunately.

That is precisely what i mean! Those i know who are recovered and feel pot was part of the problem all say that they used whatever they could get, whenever they could get it, from whoever was around - mental illness tends to lead to very chaotic choices.

I personally wouldn't use it for labour, but if i was going to i would definitely grow it myself if possible, or got it from a real expert in the medicinal uses. Some of the stuff i smoked in Uni GAVE me a headache or made menstrual cramps worse. There is a lot of variation out there in both plant quality and processing skill.

Most MDC mama's, whether or not they would use marijuana in labour, are clued up enough to know these things, but this is the internet afterall and i would hate some less clued-in person to read this and think the pot in their teenage brother's drawer is definitely going to be ok for use in pregnancy (or indeed at all).


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

I am being highly misunderstood, here.

Calling pot a hallucinogen doesn't mean you actually hallucinate on it, it's simply a description for how it works in the body. Technically speaking that is how it's classified...I don't think this is a controversial view at all. *I* have had audio hallucinations on pot. I have smoked lots of pot in my life (I wasn't always LDS). Don't assume that I don't know anything about drugs just because I consider pot a drug. I've done pretty much every drug there is in my teens.

No, I don't think pot in the same category as heroin or meth or coke and the like. Those have no medicinal value. I do think it's in the same category as narcotics only in the sense that they are both powerful drugs, I am well aware narcotics work completely differently in the body. I did NOT compare pot to cocaine or any other street drug. I said *narcotics* and what I meant by that was medicinal painkillers such as hydrocodone, ect.

I agree that pot has medicinal value....I've mentioned that quite a bit. I'm just shocked to see the natural birth crowd accepting any drug for pain relief in labor. I don't think the fact that pot grows from the ground has anything to do with it. Natural or not, pot. is. a. drug. However you want to classify it, however you think of it, it is a drug. Actually, _all_ herbs used medicinally are drugs.

While the word drug does mean:
a substance recognized in an official pharmacopoeia or formulary (talking about traditional western medicine here)

It *also* means:

a substance intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease (3): a substance other than food intended to affect the structure or function of the body (4): a substance intended for use as a component of a medicine but not a device or a component, part, or accessory of a device.

Pot, and any other herb, does fall into the latter categories.

Pot may be safer than an epidural or narcotics in labor, I'll certainly give you that one. But I don't think that's the way we should use it. That part is opinion of course, and tbh, I highly doubt I'll ever change my mind on that.

Oh, and btw, *I* have used pot medicinally and would again if it were legal.

ETA: I did some googling and did find this Wiki article (I know, wiki sucks for the most part but this did have a source):

_While many drugs clearly fall into the category of either stimulant, depressant, hallucinogen, or antipsychotic, cannabis, containing both THC and CBD, exhibits a mix of all properties, leaning towards hallucinogen properties due to THC being the primary constituent_

(source) # ^ McKim, William A (2002). Drugs and Behavior: An Introduction to Behavioral Pharmacology (5th Edition). Prentice Hall. p. 400. ISBN 0-13-048118-1.
# ^ "Information on Drugs of Abuse". Commonly Abused Drug Chart. http://www.nida.nih.gov/DrugPages/DrugsofAbuse.html. Retrieved on July 15, 2007.
# ^ Stafford, Peter (1992). Psychedelics Encyclopedia. Berkeley, CA: Ronin Pub.. ISBN 0914171518.

If anyone has more info I'd be interested to see it. I was just using the word hallucinogen in it's classification becuase that's how I've seen it generally classified...I know it's pretty uncommon to actually hallucinate off pot and you have to smoke a LOT to have that happen. I am personally aware there is a vast difference between pot and stronger hallucinogens such as mushrooms.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shakenbake* 
well i was back reading and reading that people are saying mj isnt addictive or a Serious drug
it IS a Gateway drug 15 and 16 year olds do NOT normaly go out and say hey i think ill try heroin today because it sounds fun and i am talking for personal experience
my sister started smoking pot at age 15 and it progressed to heroin by age 18
and i know if she never smokes pot she would never have to search for a better high i might make ALOT of people angry buit i have see this first hand and my sister is now award of the state for the next 6 years because of drugs i DO NOT condone any type of drug ciggs pot caff beer any of it
that being said its totally different to have 1 glass of wine with dinner then it is to drink bottle after bottle till you are so far gone

I actually don't buy the gateway drug theory at all. I've known relatively few people who've done hard drugs, and I know/have known A LOT of potsmokers.

If anything is a gateway drug, it's alcohol or cigarettes. They are legal and easier to get.

But really, the people that are going to do drugs are going to do drugs. I do not think there would be fewer drug addicts if pot didn't exist.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
I work in Mental Health Services and it is TERRIFYING the number of young people whose symptoms of mental illness (principally depressive and schizoaffective or psychotic type disorders) began after they began using cannabis. The people i speak to are well-educated, in the most part recovered or recovering people, some of whom are medicated and some of whom are not. All are strong, self-aware, determined people. For a few (i would say about 5%) they feel the cannabis use definitely came about as self-medicating behaviour, to counteract their symptoms, but for the rest, they feel the symptoms only began after the marijuana use did.










:

I've been in the mental health system long enough as a patient (over 12 years) to see this myself multiple times. I don't think the pot actually caused mental illness though, it just exacerbated an existing one.

However, I do recognize those people were just smoking whatever they could get, and probably way too much. I am unsure as to whether pot can truly treat mental illness. For the most part I want to say NO absolutely not...but I don't know enough about it and there really hasn't been any unbiased studies on the matter either.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
These people are not seeking help, they work in Mental Health Services too as peer support workers. So they are all out there already telling people with mental health issues to be wary of pot!

What is wrong with caution in where one gets one's marijuana? Why would one not exercise caution with WHATEVER one puts into one's pregnant body? Why would believing that marijuana is not inherently harmful for labouring women or their unborn babies therefore mean one should buy what one is told is good pot (but might not be) off a total stranger (whomay or may not know what they're talking about) and use it without a second thought?

To me it sounds silly for these people you claim are suffering from "principally depressive and schizoaffective or psychotic type disorders" To be leading as an example for others, since you have yet to tell us whether they have recovered from their symptoms once stopping their pot use, or if they still suffer to this day. Yes it raises awearness but does so to the point of showing it as a normal thing that can be worked out that happens to many people these days, so it's just luck of the draw and while you can make some changes things are ok. This leads so many people to believing that they can cope and handle these disorders on their own when they need help.

As for where the pot comes from that really isn't a case here because it is a whole 'nother issue all togather that can clog threads like this. No matter what you buy, lettus or pot it's you responsibility to research where it comes from if you want to. Farmers don't talk less highly about the benifit of their veggies just because there are bad people out there growing poor quality food. I'm sure that the quality standard of the weed we are refering to follows the same standard as other potent herbs discussed on this board, as such it should.
I can tell you horror stories about what's in pot that grows on the sides of busy hyways every time I talk about it to point out the bad sides, but not all of us have time to sort through pages of info that isn't related to the meat of the question. Not to mention I never have to worry about the quailty of my weed because I am the one growing it, and for me to have to include information because of bad growers and dealers is irrelevent and counterproductive. For me I talk about marijuana in it's pure natural form, and properly cared for and preserved, just like any other herb I ever discuss, as I'm sure is the consensus around here.


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## shakenbake (Nov 19, 2008)

i just wanted to say i Hope i didnt hurt anyone's feelings i just have STRONG feelings agenst drugs after watching my sister almost kill her self time and time again and now watching her deteriorate in prison
she stole from our family time and time again she went as far as to steal my wedding ring off my finger while i was asleep to pawn for drugs he IS in a rehab program at the prison and is doing good but it was to the point where she didnt meet ym 2nd son until he was 1 for fear she would be high when she did so maybe this is why i am so dead set ageist any from of drugs but im sorry if i hurt Anyone's feelings


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shakenbake* 
i just wanted to say i Hope i didnt hurt anyone's feelings i just have STRONG feelings agenst drugs after watching my sister almost kill her self time and time again and now watching her deteriorate in prison
she stole from our family time and time again she went as far as to steal my wedding ring off my finger while i was asleep to pawn for drugs he IS in a rehab program at the prison and is doing good but it was to the point where she didnt meet ym 2nd son until he was 1 for fear she would be high when she did so maybe this is why i am so dead set ageist any from of drugs but im sorry if i hurt Anyone's feelings

Shakenbake, I am so sorry if I sounded mad earlier. I completely understand the problems you have dealt with with your sister. My whole family was so negatively affected by my cousin basically destroying herself with heroin. She was visiting my grandparents and my grandmother came back from the bathroom to catch her trying to run out of the house with her wallet. Every person in the family had to change their locks because we all know where everyone's hide a key is and she was breaking into everyone's houses. Then she would disappear for months at a time with no contact only to show up when she was homeless and had no place to go!

Thank god after jail she straightened herself out and actually was the one who threw me my baby shower! I hope your sister can find her path again because heroin is one of the most destructive forces I have ever seen...

That being said and having seen the first handside of one of the worst drugs possible, I will never ever consider pot to be anywhere near the category of heroin or any other drug. You might think your sister started doing heroin because she was searching for a stronger high but unfortunately I think it has more to do with personality and less to do with weed itself.
There are people in this world who simply have addictive personalities and there is nothing that will stop them.

Pot is not a gateway drug.
It is often the first drug people try but someone who is getting high from Heroin is not looking for the same experience that they are looking for from pot.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
To me it sounds silly for these people you claim are suffering from "principally depressive and schizoaffective or psychotic type disorders" To be leading as an example for others, since you have yet to tell us whether they have recovered from their symptoms once stopping their pot use, or if they still suffer to this day. Yes it raises awearness but does so to the point of showing it as a normal thing that can be worked out that happens to many people these days, so it's just luck of the draw and while you can make some changes things are ok. This leads so many people to believing that they can cope and handle these disorders on their own when they need help.

Being diagnosed with a condition is often forever, even when symptoms are completely in remission. As for it being "silly" for people with long-term, first hand recovery experience working to assist others in there recovery







if you knew anything about it you would know that it WORKS. Mental illness, like many other ilnesses, do not have linear causes or cures. There are people who are cared for by the most highly regarded mental health professionals for YEARS who do not get better and those who recover after only peer support. Most fall between these groups on the spectrum. When you get cancer you often are offered a referral to a hospice to meet with other sufferers who are sharing your journey and within those hospices survivors are often invited back to speak to tose travelling the road. It is inspiring and supporting to meet with survivors of your illness, not "silly".

The Mental Health Recovery Network is not about telling people that mental ill-health is a "normal thing" or that they can cope without treatment, it's about helping them to see their own role in their recovery, be honest about the choices they are making (in thought and action) which are impeding their recovery or exacerbating their illness. That might be recognising that the pot you smoke to try and sleep during a manic episode is making the following depressive episode into a suicidal one rather than a moderately depressed one. It might be about recognising that the therapist you've been with for 3 years who you really like isn't actually helping you and that the CBT you began but quit because it was too confronting was actually the path you really need to walk down for recovery. It might be about recognising that you are always going to hear voices because your brain chemistry is wrong and that it is ok to choose to tell them to shut up rather than doing what they say you should.

I am harping on, i know it.







I'll stop. These people are VERY qualified to assist in recovery from mental illness. Nothing is more powerful than "i have been there, i am listening" in our experience. And i know a psychiatrist with schizoaffective disorder - mental illness doesn't target stupid useless people, it just makes them FEEL useless. Even if people aren't ready to begin a road to recovery it always provokes strong responses hearing and knowing that others have recovered by taking responsibility for themselves, their lifestyles, their well-being.

Achieving mental health is never simply a case of giving up pot, because pot is never the ONLY factor, and even if it was, stopping won't cure it any more than quitting smoking cures already growing lung cancer. But for those who come to realise their use is making things worse, yes, obviously they have stopped using it! As for whether or not they have symptoms still, some do, some don't. There is a big difference between someone with bipolar feeling a bit manic and going out and spnding every penny they have and then selling ther clothes, and then their body to get more before falling into a depression which drives them to attempt suicide and someone with bipolar feeling a bit manic and knowing it's time to have a warm milk, a long bath and an early night to get on top of the swing before it gets worse. Are they cured? No, they still have symptoms. Are they living a life of mental ill-health? No, they have overcome it. Perhaps to you all that is just silly and they should double the lithium and stay in the hospital, but to me, and to MANY others, it is incredibly inspiring, just as it is inspiring to know those who have ME/CFS to be able to live a relatively normal life by managing their illness.

And FWIW though you may be talking about cannabis in its purest form, i personally have no idea where i could get that locally and it's certainly not what i imagine when i am in this discussion. I imagine the pot i have seen, from the weed my SIL uses for her chronic congenital illness, to the complete rubbish i smoked as a student and everything in between. Perhaps it would be more useful to talk about the concept in everyone else's heads in this discussion (which obviously vary widely) rather than one's own very specific idea of a pure herb which most of us probably don't even have access to, even if we DID want to use it.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

It may not be intended for people to interpt awearness of mental illness as an excuse to cope, but especially if people aren't ready to accept their illness and seek the help they need in a constructive healthy way, this is how people interpt it these days. Yes I believe it is inspiring and a great tool for the people who are at that point. But lets face it some people can't be bothered to go to the doctor when they need seriouse medical attention so they sure won't go to the doctor for voices in their head. They'll say to themselves " I know what this is, the man told me about it, if I do what he did it will go away. I can deal with this." and the man never makes it to seek help, instead he buts out his joint, and thinks it must be under control when it's not.

"Achieving mental health is never simply a case of giving up pot, because pot is never the ONLY factor, and even if it was, stopping won't cure it any more than quitting smoking cures already growing lung cancer. "

But you are making the connection between mental illness triggers and cannibis, instead of connecting mental illness triggers and potentially habit forming substances and actions. It's information like this, even though you have made a vast connection, only paints part of the picture without providing all the information related to the topic in a form that is easily included so people can make well informed decisions. Partial information like this is why we have to fight so had for people to acknowledge true accurate info, instead of myths and misconceptions.

As for me not having and understanding of social services provided to help and rehabilitate people with mental illness. I live in a family with many mentally ill people and not just that but have grown up on the other side of the fence working very closely with my mother who worked in variouse postitions at various levels of the system with people and children with mental, and developmental illnesses, and learnt everything alongside her as she furthered her own studies. I understand the whole cycle of the system very well from many many angles.

As for the cleanliness of the pot, like I said before we are discussing a herb in the same standard of preservation and purity that we would assume of any other herb, red raspberry leaf, nettle, peppermint, ginger, Just because we can buy these on store shelves doesn't mean they are pure and clean, that's why we seek out and pay for organic. I mean come on raw veggies from other countries are being contaminate by growing in raw sewage and feces, and they make it into our stores, we have to be weary of everything we ingest but we can't involve a rundown of standards of product each time we discuss a herb or food. We have to assume quaility=response by body.

BTW medicinal marijuana supplied by the government is proven to be poor quality ganja, now if you are supplied by a co op or private growers that's another story, but comparing street grade to medicinal grade isn't even applicable anymore because it's like everything else they make, made as cheap and efficient as possible to increase profits, and poorly classified to mislead for gain. So don't you or your SIL kid yourself.


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## darcytrue (Jan 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Down2Earth* 
^I agree! They could take away your baby because of the drugs in your system (and maybe even in your baby's system.) I don't think it would be worth it.

I agree. I wouldn't chance it *especially* for that reason. My first baby ended up being an emergency c-section because he got stuck inside me.







The next day he started having seizures and the staff at the hospital tested me for drugs without telling me first and then came in my hospital room post partum accusing me of having used drugs during my pregnancy thus causing the seizures.







: Come to find out that ofcourse it was where they used the forceps on his head over and over to try and pull him through my vagina and it wasn't my fault at all AND I had no drugs in my system thank God!!! I can only imagine if I would have.


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## Mal85 (Sep 3, 2008)

Didn't read all the replies, but here's my two cents...

Personally, I wouldn't do it. All the risks with the hospital birth, drug tests, etc. But also, I don't think it would help. I know I used to smoke to try and relieve menstrual pains, but it really just heightened my senses and I felt them more intensely. Marijuana makes me really in-tune with my body, which could be good during labor, but certainly wouldn't alleviate any pain. It would make me much more aware of the pain I'm feeling...


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

I can chime in here with my own experience, I hope.

I am a bipolar patient who discovered after years of potsmoking (not consistently, I was never a daily smoker) that it made my symptoms worse. If I smoked it while manic, it made me even more manic, and it didn't do much for depression either. It also made my meds pretty much ineffective. I asked my doctor about it and he said that's really common. If you have a brain disorder and you take meds to correct your brain chemistry, smoking pot is not a good idea, it totally interferes with the whole thing. I'd be interested to see studies or whatnot on it.

As for getting specific strains of 'pure' MJ or whatever, I'm honestly pretty reluctant to believe that there are people out there with bipolar as bad as mine (Rapid Cycling Bipolar I) who've found a 'cure' through pot. I will admit that I did not use pot medicinally when I used it, so that's probably a whole other ballgame. I'm on the fence about that one, and until I see actual peer reviewed widely recognized studies on the matter, I'm inclined to go with my own experience and the info I was given by every mental health professional I have seen in the past 12 years: for the most part, pot and mental illness do not mix.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

pot is not a "cure", it's and alternative treatment to medication, not to be taken with medication. With different people it works differently. Like you said pot made you more manic, but I bet you so would coke, or heroin, would as well, and I believe if we got you started gambling in a casino you would start losing it just as bad. Like I said you are specifying pot when you should be covering the wide spectrum of other triggers you have along with the pot, so others can make their own decisions from the information you are sharing.

As for your 12 years worth of experienced mental health professionals, it seems like they are treating pot as they are trained to treat herbal/alternative medicine. It's just like ob/gyns claiming that unassisted home births are dangerous, to them they are because of their beliefs and training, but to an open midwife she may see just how safe it is because the foundation of her knowledge charts a different perspective of birth.


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## mamatolevi (Apr 10, 2009)

at the rate I eat poppy bagels, I'd never see my kids again!

(and yes, I have tested positive for opiates b/c of it. good think my old pshrink knows me well. he got a good laugh with me over it.)


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
pot is not a "cure", it's and alternative treatment to medication, not to be taken with medication. With different people it works differently. Like you said pot made you more manic, but I bet you so would coke, or heroin, would as well, and I believe if we got you started gambling in a casino you would start losing it just as bad. Like I said you are specifying pot when you should be covering the wide spectrum of other triggers you have along with the pot, so others can make their own decisions from the information you are sharing.

As for your 12 years worth of experienced mental health professionals, it seems like they are treating pot as they are trained to treat herbal/alternative medicine. It's just like ob/gyns claiming that unassisted home births are dangerous, to them they are because of their beliefs and training, but to an open midwife she may see just how safe it is because the foundation of her knowledge charts a different perspective of birth.

why are we still comparing pot to other street drugs? I think it's been well established it's totally different. those drugs have no medicinal value. And actually, opiates make me less manic. Although I have never done herion, so I wouldn't know about that (heroin and acid were the only two drugs I skipped of the most common ones). There is some talk about using opiates to treat mental illness, I dunno about that one but at least one person I heard about has tried it.

I don't think mental health workers who have WITNESSED countless people have their mental illnesses exacerbated by pot have no standing on what they are saying. Not the same as OBs who are just making assumptions about homebirth when there are lots of studies that prove them wrong. Another apples to oranges comparison. Unassisted birth is totally different, the jury is still out on it's safety since it has not been studied. Even many midwives are anti-UC, and I think it's perfectly valid for a scientific minded doctor to discount it. Not saying that I agree per se, but I can at least understand why. But that's neither here nor there, and I don't think it's the same thing as someone who sees, over and over again as I have whenever in patient, people who've had their illnesses made worse by pot. Sure, there could be other factors, but I personally believe it to be true.

by cure i meant medication that worked. I realize there is no technical cure for bipolar or any other mental illness, generally speaking the 'cure' is medication. hence the quotations.

Like I said, I am willing to believe it's possible to use pot medicinally to treat mental illness, but I think there isn't enough studies on it and until I see an unbiased peer reviewed study on it, I'm not going to beleive it. And of course there is the problem of getting access to the specific form of MJ needed to treat whatever. It's not like other herbs where you can just order from mountainroseherbs.com

You're also wrong about all doctors discounting herbal medications. My former psychiatrist has recommended many herbs and supplements for bipolar disorder.

Ultimately for me, pot made me worse. A little pot, a lot of pot, I'm sure what was different strains, ect. Pretty much the same universal effect. It also interacted with my medication, and THAT part I know to be an absolute fact.


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## MommyNicoleTX (Oct 26, 2008)

FYI I'm one of those that is "anti-MJ" as someone put it. I live on the border of Mexico and have seen/heard way too many stories of families murdered to traffic MJ here. I also dont think there is enough info out there for "me" to ever use it, but "to each their own".

Anyways I have a valid, non-judgemental question...or two or three...

I've heard there is a risk when smoking/consuming MJ that it can be laced with other things, can be a stronger strain, or can effect you more adversely than you thought? So how do you "make sure" it is "healthy"? If studies show MJ is safe that is great, but what about "your" MJ...how do you know for sure? Also, I am just wondering how a pregnant mom safely finds MJ? Is finding a dealer you trust easy? If not I assume you have to grow it at home? What would happen if you got caught growing it? Jail, kids taken away? Can pregnant women get medicinal MJ?

And an optional question...How do you know that your MJ doesnt have ties to dangerous drug lords and you arent funding a bloody war (and it is a sad sad drug war)? there was a thread where people wouldnt buy something from a company that believed in spanking children...so do you make sure your MJ is local and not tied to something you dont belive is right?


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

I think the only way to be absolutely sure is to get medical MJ from a private co op or grow it yourself or personally know someone who grows it.

I'm also curious as to whether there is medical MJ for pregnant women. I wanted to use it this time around for my hyperemesis (my bipolar is improved due in pregnancy for the most part and I was so sick I just wanted to keep something ANYTHING down) but I figured no one would give a pregnant woman a medical MJ card, and I won't break the law (if I did and got caught, my husband could lose his job).


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## sg784 (Dec 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BrightBabies* 
FYI I'm one of those that is "anti-MJ" as someone put it. I live on the border of Mexico and have seen/heard way too many stories of families murdered to traffic MJ here. I also dont think there is enough info out there for "me" to ever use it, but "to each their own".

Anyways I have a valid, non-judgemental question...or two or three...

I've heard there is a risk when smoking/consuming MJ that it can be laced with other things, can be a stronger strain, or can effect you more adversely than you thought? So how do you "make sure" it is "healthy"? If studies show MJ is safe that is great, but what about "your" MJ...how do you know for sure? Also, I am just wondering how a pregnant mom safely finds MJ? Is finding a dealer you trust easy? If not I assume you have to grow it at home? What would happen if you got caught growing it? Jail, kids taken away? Can pregnant women get medicinal MJ?

And an optional question...How do you know that your MJ doesnt have ties to dangerous drug lords and you arent funding a bloody war (and it is a sad sad drug war)? there was a thread where people wouldnt buy something from a company that believed in spanking children...so do you make sure your MJ is local and not tied to something you dont belive is right?


All of these things have been addressed previously in this thread. First 2-12 pages.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BrightBabies* 
FYI I'm one of those that is "anti-MJ" as someone put it. I live on the border of Mexico and have seen/heard way too many stories of families murdered to traffic MJ here. I also dont think there is enough info out there for "me" to ever use it, but "to each their own".

Anyways I have a valid, non-judgemental question...or two or three...

I've heard there is a risk when smoking/consuming MJ that it can be laced with other things, can be a stronger strain, or can effect you more adversely than you thought? So how do you "make sure" it is "healthy"? If studies show MJ is safe that is great, but what about "your" MJ...how do you know for sure? Also, I am just wondering how a pregnant mom safely finds MJ? Is finding a dealer you trust easy? If not I assume you have to grow it at home? What would happen if you got caught growing it? Jail, kids taken away? Can pregnant women get medicinal MJ?

And an optional question...How do you know that your MJ doesnt have ties to dangerous drug lords and you arent funding a bloody war (and it is a sad sad drug war)? there was a thread where people wouldnt buy something from a company that believed in spanking children...so do you make sure your MJ is local and not tied to something you dont belive is right?

First off I would really like to put to rest teh myth that non-pot users have about weed being laced. Unless you are paying 40$ a gram your weed isn't laced because pot growers want to make the most they can off what they sell, and "lacing" weed that is not being used as personal is business suicide, If you are spending the money to lace your weed you are keeping it to yourself becasue it doesn't even really work. The combustion temperature of MJ is much lower than that which is needed to volitize hard drugs so they can be absorbed through smoking, so even if it were laced(which it isn't) your Hard Stuff is just floating away in air anyways. Not to mention the other forms of preparing and consuming marijuana involve two forms of solubles made to breakdown a simple plant, not complexe chemicles.

As for your "Gang" relations regaurding marijuana. That's like judging alcohol for the bootleggers who make it in poverty stricken areas who can create cheap paintthinner and sell it to their own neighbors. Only in your country is the MJ culture so riddled with "gang" control only becasue the gangs are the only ones brave enough to supply a demand. If your government were even more lenient regaurding marijuana and cultivation it would open the area back up to the "mom and pop" growers who are like buying from the farmers market instead of walmart. I can tell you here in Canada the only reason gangs import and deal is because their own members hold it in such high demand and it is easier to buy in bulk, and no matter what you sell someone will always ask you if you're selling weed because the bikers spend the money on the BEST stuff, and are more likely to give it away like cigarettes in social settings.
Most growing here is done locally, and every few dozen blocks even in the big cities, and we aren't talking young kids getting busted and replacing eachother, we are talking about respectable memeber of the community with families and strong business connections, who sit down to a huge supper every Sunday with t eh whole family. Not to mention many have been growing for close to 7 or 8 years and have "groomed" not only their growing skills, but also their clientel list. If you are an asshole, threaten the family or businesses safty you can go buy of the highschool kids.

Yes pregnant women can get medicinal mj if they live in the right area and can find a doctor willing to do it.

In the states if you get caught growing you are going to jail. But so long as you are just growing 3-4 plants for personal and keep it to yourselves you'll never get caught unless someone is looking directly at you for you to slip up.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm with Chrissy on that one, no one is going to lace pot and not specifically sell it as laced for a higher price. Other drugs cost money! They're out to make a buck, not mess up unsuspecting customers.

Chrissy: can you tell me more about getting medical MJ? I'm so sick of HG and Zofran (it causes massive constipation)!!!! I asked in FYT and they said a pregnant woman probably couldn't get medical MJ. I do however live in CA...and I'm not that far of a drive from the ultra crunchy areas too. Maybe it's just a matter of asking around. I have a few friends that get medical MJ.

I'm also curious to see any information about pot and mental illness. Someone did mention that specific strains of MJ can make mania worse and others could possibly be more sedating, and I'd love to see any articles, links, ect that you might have on it. I know there's no studies but...I dunno, I'd at least like to see the info that is available.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Talula Fairie* 
I'm with Chrissy on that one, no one is going to lace pot and not specifically sell it as laced for a higher price. Other drugs cost money! They're out to make a buck, not mess up unsuspecting customers.

Chrissy: can you tell me more about getting medical MJ? I'm so sick of HG and Zofran (it causes massive constipation)!!!! I asked in FYT and they said a pregnant woman probably couldn't get medical MJ. I do however live in CA...and I'm not that far of a drive from the ultra crunchy areas too. Maybe it's just a matter of asking around. I have a few friends that get medical MJ.

I'm also curious to see any information about pot and mental illness. Someone did mention that specific strains of MJ can make mania worse and others could possibly be more sedating, and I'd love to see any articles, links, ect that you might have on it. I know there's no studies but...I dunno, I'd at least like to see the info that is available.


I knew you couldn't be as closed minded as you come across.

First I would start talking to your friends who already have MJ Doctors and see if you could get a referal, even if it is just for a consultaion and to discuss your needs and whether or not there is a doctor in the area who would be a good match for you. Living in Cali I would imagine you will have quite the selection once you "pop into " the bubble.

As for the information I would look into joining some of the larger Cannibis forums. People are so afraid that even educating themselves in places like these can get them into trouble, when really you are doing nothing wrong but seeking out information. Many forums have strain sub forums where you can learn about what works for other people and what effects different strains have, it is a great place to compile and gather information that is spread too far to be put togather accurately.

I wish I could promise to do the leg work for your and be your "MJ doula" with infor but I just can't spend the that ammount of time for someone else without being compensated, otherwise I would never get off the computer and take care of my family because there are so many people out there I would love to inform and so many people who ask it of me. It is hard to turn them all down. The information is out there and in your search you are sure to find people who suffer from the same thigs or close to that you do who have been experimenting with it and are a few more steps ahead of you.

The MJ community really is much bigger than it is known mostly because of fear. But we are always looking for others to help break out of that fear and happily support eachother however we can, just like here at MDC.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

I really don't like remarks like that. They sound like a compliment but actually they're an insult. When I reread my posts, they don't seem closed minded to me at all. Actually I am quite open minded about it. I said several times I have used pot medicinally in the past, I said that it does have medicinal value, I said I didn't buy the gateway drug theory. I posted a lot of positive stuff in relation to pot, and frankly I find it a little insulting that you only see the other side. If I were truly closed minded, I would not have said anything good about pot at all, in any case, ever period. We know there are people like that, they've posted in these threads. Now _that is closed minded_.

Like I said a few times, I do not think people were understanding what I said _at all_. I repeated myself over and over, but it just didn't seem to get through and everyone appeared to believe that I was comparing MJ to street drugs, and I was not. All I was trying to say is that MJ is a drug too (as all herbs are) and should be treated as such. It DOES have strong effects and should be used with caution and knowledge. I'm still not sure about it being used as a mental illness treatment, but I am curious about it and would like more info. I DID say that the bad experiences I had and witnessed regarding pot and mental illness were people smoking who knows what strain and a lot of it, so this definitely could be a factor. I do still doubt my mind will totally be changed without seeing a study, but hey, why not. Psych meds suck and it sure would be awesome if there were effective alternatives.

I'd appreciate any links to forums or whatnot, maybe someone could PM them to me. I wasn't requesting someone to do all the work for me, I just thought perhaps someone had a link to a forum/website/or article they'd like to share. Google only does so much, and it's impossible to know just through Google which site is 'good' and which is not.

I don't know anyone out where I live now who gets medical MJ, but I do have a few friends who get medical MJ where I used to live. I guess I could start there.

ETA: I have been googling, and I found this unbiased article which I found interesting. I thought it gave a pretty accurate picture, though it did fail to mention specific strains. I think that's probably one of the big factors that most people (including myself) don't realize.

http://www.pendulum.org/bpnews/archive/001628.html


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## CalmCenter (Apr 27, 2009)

Hi everyone.

I went to the Northern California Women's Herbal Symposium last
Labor Day. It was awesome!







:
I attended a workshop on Medical M with the woman from Black Oak Ranch who was involved in getting medical going in CA and was the first Nurse to be able to prescribe. Very cool woman, obviously pro-medical use.

I just wanted to share what she said. First off there have been so few good studies about Mamas using during pregnancy and the effect on children but there was one study that did get published (in Europe I think). Well, it showed that there were some significant results of smoking during pregnancy which included mild retardation, and neurological damage, like having slow responses and slow processing speed.

My husband, whom I adore, by the way was born from a mama who was likely smoking during pregnancy and I would say he probably has some lifelong effects. He has been diagnosed with a learning disorder of a slow processing speed.

Well, while this is not life threatening the study showed that there was a clear effect on the child.

I am guessing this was from pretty regular use, but why risk it if you don't need to. I would say that one should hold off on using medical during pregnancy until there are some more studies done, but while there is doubt and even possible evidence that there could be damage why risk it?

If you stop caffeine, which is mildly mind-altering during pregnancy, then probably any other substances would equally be in question. Anything that can cross the placenta barrier will effect your child in utero.

If you are still considering using medical M for birthing, I would suggest going to a medical m doctor and getting their advise. I don't know what state you are in, but if you are in CA or other states with medical laws, there are likely some good doctors to talk to.

There are great herbs that are just not right for pregnancy, M may be one of them.

Good luck! Blessings.


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## green_pyxi (May 22, 2007)

During my 1st trimester of my first pregnancy, I had the worst nausea. Smoking a little bit of ganja was a life saver! I could actually eat and keep it all down. This time around I tried the same thing for my nausea and it actually made it worse. I was a good bandaid, but once it started to wear off I would become even more nauseous than before. It was horrible! Different baby, different reaction.

But the biggest lesson...LISTEN to you body!


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CalmCenter* 
Hi everyone.

I went to the Northern California Women's Herbal Symposium last
Labor Day. It was awesome!








:
I attended a workshop on Medical M with the woman from Black Oak Ranch who was involved in getting medical going in CA and was the first Nurse to be able to prescribe. Very cool woman, obviously pro-medical use.

I just wanted to share what she said. First off there have been so few good studies about Mamas using during pregnancy and the effect on children but there was one study that did get published (in Europe I think). Well, it showed that there were some significant results of smoking during pregnancy which included mild retardation, and neurological damage, like having slow responses and slow processing speed.

My husband, whom I adore, by the way was born from a mama who was likely smoking during pregnancy and I would say he probably has some lifelong effects. He has been diagnosed with a learning disorder of a slow processing speed.

Well, while this is not life threatening the study showed that there was a clear effect on the child.

I am guessing this was from pretty regular use, but why risk it if you don't need to. I would say that one should hold off on using medical during pregnancy until there are some more studies done, but while there is doubt and even possible evidence that there could be damage why risk it?

If you stop caffeine, which is mildly mind-altering during pregnancy, then probably any other substances would equally be in question. Anything that can cross the placenta barrier will effect your child in utero.

If you are still considering using medical M for birthing, I would suggest going to a medical m doctor and getting their advise. I don't know what state you are in, but if you are in CA or other states with medical laws, there are likely some good doctors to talk to.

There are great herbs that are just not right for pregnancy, M may be one of them.

Good luck! Blessings.

This is news to me. In every article I've ever read or studied, including the one published by Mothering, they stated NO serious birth defects have ever been proven in humans. I believe the study to which you are refferring was on animals given massive doses of THC. Quite a few long term studies, including "The Jamaican Study" showed no long term effects whatsoever.

"In animal studies, THC has been shown to produce spontaneous abortion, low birth weight, and physical deformities-but only with extremely large doses, only in some species of rodents, and only when THC is given at specific times during pregnancy.5 Because the effects of drugs on fetal development differ substantially across species,6 these studies have little or no relevance to humans"

http://www.mothering.com/articles/pr...ana-side4.html

http://www.medicalcannabis.com/pregnancy.htm


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## viking (Mar 2, 2007)

re: mental illness

thc is not the only active compound in cannabis,
some cannabinols, or cannabidiols, seem to have anti-psycotic effects and thus 'eliminate' this trait of the thc. etc.

again, different strains have different mixes of the individual componds. some with much thc, some with little, etc.

here is a short article about the difference in two of the main types; sativa and indica. http://www.marijuana-seeds.net/Choos...r-Indica-.html

this one was better: http://www.medicalmarihuana.ca/strains.html

Quote:

"Indica and Sativa are the two main varieties of the cannabis plant used as medicine. There are many strains that are crosses of those two varieties. Within each of those varieties and crosses there are a huge number of individual strains, each with a different cannabinoid profile and effect. According to anecdotal evidence, the Indica strains are a relaxant, effective for anxiety, pain, nausea, appetite stimulation, sleep, muscle spasms and tremors, among other symptoms. The Sativa strains are more of a stimulant, effective in appetite stimulation, relieving depression, migraines, pain and nausea. We are now aware of specific strains that are effective for specific conditions and symptoms."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16612464

Quote:

The antipsychotic-like properties of CBD have been investigated in animal models using behavioral and neurochemical techniques which suggested that CBD has a pharmacological profile similar to that of atypical antipsychotic drugs.


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## viking (Mar 2, 2007)

i'd also like to recommend a documentary made by BBC - Should I Smoke Dope?

she illustrates well that the different compounds have different effects.
(remember she is getting _pure_ thc and cbd intravenoust, and can not really be compared to smoking marijuana.)


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## karika (Nov 4, 2005)

I think it is wonderful that you want to use this miracle plant in your delivery. I have only birthed in a hospital, so I was not able to use it during birth as I would have liked to. The only thing I can tell you is that I saw on an "Independent Lens" one night. It was about doc humes and his last child was birthed whilst the mother had apparently specifically timed hits. she described the birth as orgasmic. i have not read the responses, and I am sure you have been blasted by people that don;t know any better, so







s.... nak sry bout typos. here is a link to a page about the doc...

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/doc/


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

I haven't read the entire thread, but it would make me paranoid...

in my state OR, if you haven't had any prenatal care and then you show up in a hospital to deliver, they do do a drug test. They won't take your baby outright, but you will have a social worker on your case...


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *viking* 
re: mental illness

thc is not the only active compound in cannabis,
some cannabinols, or cannabidiols, seem to have anti-psycotic effects and thus 'eliminate' this trait of the thc. etc.

again, different strains have different mixes of the individual componds. some with much thc, some with little, etc.

here is a short article about the difference in two of the main types; sativa and indica. http://www.marijuana-seeds.net/Choos...r-Indica-.html

this one was better: http://www.medicalmarihuana.ca/strains.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16612464

Thank you for this!


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## boobs4milk (Jun 25, 2006)

Not for me. And yes, I've smoked pot and never really enjoyed it!

For those of you using the 'well, me and 14249 people I've heard of used it and my baby is fine' argument: I don't buy that line with formula use and I don't buy it with MJ use, either!!!


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boobs4milk* 
Not for me. And yes, I've smoked pot and never really enjoyed it!

For those of you using the 'well, me and 14249 people I've heard of used it and my baby is fine' argument: I don't buy that line with formula use and I don't buy it with MJ use, either!!!

But no one is saying that. We're saying that _in scientific studies_ no birth defects have been associated with marijuana use. Not so with formula, which is linked to numerous health problems in numerous studies. I haven't seen many people here rely on anecdotal evidence in this case.


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## mamaSun loveMore (May 22, 2006)

Tried it. No problems here. Can't say it reduced the pain at all! But I think it brought on my labor...
Old midwives trick for relaxing enough to 'invite' rushes... roughly equivalent to that glass of red wine....
I don't think it will hurt...
I also don't think it is strong enough to distract you from the matter at hand. labor requires your full attention and will snap you out of any organic haze.
good luck!


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## Mama G (May 17, 2009)

First of all...
I'm so glad to live in Canada where a little ganja is no biggie (to hospitals, police, governments, and majority of people).
I didn't smoke during my pregnancy but did smoke a little pinner at the early signs of labour. It doesn't "wack" you out anymore than labour would, therefore no doctor or nurse would be even slightly suspicious (what a fear based paranoid society we live in).
It did help me rest a bit and calmed down the labour pains (much like when it works wonders with bad moon cycle pains), but the only bad thing I would say is to be cautious of the "burnout". It can make you even more tired at a time when you need lots of energy.
But jeesh guys. Com'on... WAY WAY better for mama and baby than anything they'll give you at the hospital. And just for the record, I was just as present giving a natural water birth at the time of dilevery as I would have been had I not toked 16 hours prior.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

My concern is just that like any other form of pain relief, it could interfere with the natural endorphins. I agree it's much better for you than narcotic pain relievers or an epidural though.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

Not true. My sister used pot through all of her pregnancies and told her OB upfront all 3 times that she is a toker. She smoked during labor too before going to the hospital.

The only thing that happens in the event of a hospital birth is a social worker will come by after you are released to check your home out and make sure you have everything you need for baby, like diapers, bed,etc.. (This is in NY State so I guess it would depend on the state but I also think meth and other drugs are a much larger problem for social workers). The social workers she has seen have been very easy going about it all but they do have to check it out just in case. I have never heard of anyone getting their kids removed or anything more serious than a home visit for just using pot, pregnant or not.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *all in green* 
You might want to consider what could happen if you had to transfer to the hospital for some reason in the midst of labor or immediately after the birth. If you or the baby were found to have marijuana in your system it could lead to serious reprucussions. Just something to think about.


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## Mama G (May 17, 2009)

Ya. No it did not interfer with the natural endorphins at all. Those natural endorphins make you more high than any joint on the planet could. And like I said... If you smoke in the early stages of labour it would be completly worn off before transitional labour. Depending on how much you consume (assuming it's only a little) it would be worn off in a couple hours.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

babe will be here soon, I'll let you all know how it goes.


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## mccurry (Jan 5, 2012)

I was excited to read this post, and am considering using MJ in my own birth. I live in a state, Alaska, where using MJ in private residences is legal by state laws (no medical MJ card needed), however this does directly contradict federal laws. I must confess I read the first 5 pages and then skipped to the end. I have a degree in biochemistry and this is what I understand so far about how MJ would affect labor.

MJ causes the release of oxytocin. Oxytocin is the natural molecule that progresses labor. It causes dilation and softening of the cervix, which is necessary for labor to continually progress. I don't believe that MJ would actually lessen the pain, and depending on the strain (indica vs sativa) and % THC and other cannabadiols it might actually increase the pain. Some strains cause whats known as a body high and cause you to be more sensitive to what your body is feeling. Other strains can cause your heart to speed up (bad for baby because it might cause problems with baby getting enough oxygen). Now, compared to pitocin, MJ might be a good option. Pitocin mimics oxytocin, but doesn't cause the same biochemical cascade that oxytocin does. When oxytocin is released, it causes a sequential release of endorphins. Endorphins are those molecules responsible for the exercise 'high' and can negate some of the pain of labor. Pitocin doesn't cause endorphins to be released, which is why so many women need an epidural after starting pitocin, the pain can be too much! MJ would cause the natural molecule oxytocin to be released and allow for the sequential endorphin high, progressing labor and allowing for the body's natural painkillers to be released.

I've heard many women mention having a glass of wine or alcohol, and I'm not sure about those effects. Some of the books I've read suggest consuming alcohol to stall a labor, not progress it (ie. if you need to drive to the hospital). The effect might simply be for relaxation, not progression of labor. Stress can stall labor on its own, so this might be the reason alcohol is suggested.

As for MJ compared to tobacco, I strongly thing that tobacco is worse. While smoking both equate to carbonizing plant matter, which does create some harmful molecules, MJ isn't mass produced and contains additives the way that tobacco does. Carbon Monoxide (CO) is one of the main detractants of smoking MJ, at any time, not just during pregnancy and labor. The way to avoid being exposed to too much CO is to simply take quick hits. delta 9- THC, one of the main psychoactive ingredients in MJ bonds almost instantaneously in your lungs, so inhaling and quickly exhaling allows you to avoid binding CO. The CO binding is bad for you, it binds much more strongly to your blood cells, and won't come off until the blood cell dies and is replaced. Oxygen, or O2, is a bulkier molecule and drops off wherever your body needs it. If you take quick hits, less CO binds to your blood cells, and you can negate much of the damage done by "holding a hit in".

I am also worried about the possibility of drug testing and CPS involvement, so I'm not sure what I'll do when the time comes. Thanks again, for all the posts, and I'm going to keep researching to see what my options are. Best of luck to everyone!!


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## mccurry (Jan 5, 2012)

Ah, I forgot. Some studies have been done in Jamaica where women smoke MJ for nausea all through pregnancy, and during labor. These studies are probably the best to review because there is no government sanctioned prohibition of MJ. When reading any study you need to check the experimental methods sections because frequently high doses of MJ need to be given to animals to elicit any negative response. Keep in mind that Jamaica is also a country that has a lower standard of living, and lack of prenatal care, vitamins, and malnutrition can contribute to any results. Really, unless you have a population who only smokes MJ (no drinking, smoking cigarettes, other drugs), has good prenatal care, and is fairly well fed you can't determine the effects of MJ on any part of life, much less labor or birth.

Thanks again!


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## oliviajune (Oct 10, 2011)

My question is WHY? You do realize that everything YOU ingest, your baby does too, right? So your little precious baby is ALSO getting high. Great parenting skills!

Also, pot won't touch the level of pain that labor is. More likely you'd just end up hungry, tired, and paranoid. All of which you don't need during labor. If you need pain management, maybe you should re-examine why you want a natural birth in the first place. If you can't handle it, go to the hospital or a birth center and get it taken care of LEGALLY and SAFELY.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oliviajune*
> 
> My question is WHY? You do realize that everything YOU ingest, your baby does too, right? So your little precious baby is ALSO getting high. Great parenting skills!
> 
> Also, pot won't touch the level of pain that labor is. More likely you'd just end up hungry, tired, and paranoid. All of which you don't need during labor. If you need pain management, maybe you should re-examine why you want a natural birth in the first place. If you can't handle it, go to the hospital or a birth center and get it taken care of LEGALLY and SAFELY.


Thank you for being the voice of reason. I feel much the same. If you, as a parent, need to "check out or mellow out" on a regular basis .. maybe you should re-think being a parent in the first place.


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## Cassie Kowalik (Nov 6, 2012)

I use my medical cannabis daily and have since becoming pregnant. I am currently 38 weeks and 4 days!  I'm just not sure on how it affects labor and delivery. I wonder if MJ stalls the onset of labor?! any words of advice are welcome!  and I live in san diego. my OB knows of my med MJ card and isn't for or against it. she just makes sure to remind me to take it in moderation. I think there are better things to worry about than someone smoking a joint to relieve any sort of ailment during pregnancy. and the fact that CPS has the audacity to come and take your children away for it is also atrocious in my eyes. while its ok and widely accepted to have a methadone or morphine RX, simply smoking cannabis can cause jail time and or CPS involvement, which is just plain ludicrous! not here in California!  congrats to all the other mama's to be!


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## FLmomof1/1ontheway (Apr 25, 2007)

I didn't read over the whole tread but very interesting. I smoked for years when I was young. However as I got older I realized I didn't even like it. It makes me very paranoid. The only time I enjoyed it was when I was alone and could zone out to a movie or something. There is no way I would enjoy it in labor.

I post because I want to drink a margarita when I go into labor this time. Maybe 2! Did anyone drink while in labor? I know alcohol thins the blood, not good when you need to clot. Then you have to breastfeed your little baby. I have always with all 3 babies so far drank a beer after birth or the night of the birth. My last midwife OK-ed it she said it helps the milk come in, she even said drinking here and there during pregnancy was OK. When she was pregnant with one of hers the only thing that helped her constant morning sickness was a beer.

I don't want to get drunk just that nice buzz which I'm sure one margarita will work after more then a year of not drinking. It will certainly help me be more calm and relaxed and happy. Drinking is my marijuana. My last two babies were born at sunrise so I had coffee instead of beer. All my labors are getting shorter as well. First 8 hours, #2 4 hours, #3 2 hours. So this baby may come so fast there may be no time to make one. Plus I usually am extremely focused and into the birth I never do much of what I plan to do - I just give birth.

So did anyone drink while in labor?


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