# Children addressing adults - explain the "Miss" thing to me



## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Background info - Growing up where I did (Northeast US), it was the norm in my community to address adults by their first names.

If the relationship wasn't close, then it was Mr. Smith or Mrs. Smith. When I went to college, I realized that many parents of my friends and acquaintences expeceted to be addressed as Mr. Smith or Mrs. Smith.

DS is enrolled in a class and during class, the moms (and dads) sit outside in a lounge area. Several of the other parents bring their younger children along to play in the common area.

I noticed the other moms guiding their children to address the female adults as Miss Sally, Miss Anne, etc.

At the last class, another mom asked me how I would like her daughter to address me, which I thought was polite.

I said something along the lines of "I am comfortable with Caneel but if you are teaching her to use a more formal tone, she can call me Mrs. Jones."

Mom turns to her daughter and says "this is Miss Caneel, so-and-so's Mommy." Little girl smiles at me and I smiled and responded "I am married, you may call me Mrs. Caneel or Mrs. Jones."

From the collective looks on the Moms' faces, you would have thought I asked to be addresses as Her Royal Highness! One mom actually rolled her eyes, which caused a normally silent dad to giggle.

Is the Miss title a country-wide trend? I remember reading it was common in the South.

I was polite about the correction but I obvisously offended them, or at least caused them to think I was odd, by stating I prefered Mrs. over Miss. Am I out of the norm to prefer that I not be addressed as Miss?


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## liberal_chick (May 22, 2005)

I would say yes, but I'm in the south. LOL

Even when I was teaching high school, even though I was married the whole time, what came out of my students' mouths was Miss/Ms mylastname. I think, at least here, it is just not pronounced like Mrs. even though that is what I had plastered all over my room and such.

My kids all call my friends and their friend parents Ms theirfirstname even though they are all married.

I hope that made some semblance of sense.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

It is like that where we are. I'm a southerner by birth, and had Mr./Mrs and Sir/Ma'am pounded into my head in my first six years of life....and then we move to PA and apparently a lot of women are uncomfortable being called Mrs. or Ma'am.

I think, at least where we are, that "Miss" no longer signals "young unmarried woman". It's become just another word attached to a name that indicates the woman is older of you and deserving some level of respect.

I personally prefer "Mrs." too, but when in Rome, I do as the Romans do.







It's local culture, and to me not really a hill worth dying on.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I'm in Arizona, and it's either first name, or "Miss-first name".. or occasionally "mrs last name"... but, that's less friendly.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I have to be honest, the "Miss Heather" thing really, REALLY irritates me. I'm not a miss. I'm not a teacher. It doesn't feel respectful to me, or deferential, and quite frankly I don't want deference from a kid, I want a respectful tone and manner, not a title. I'd much rather the kid call me Heather, or Mrs. J if they feel odd using my first name (but still more casual and less formal), and be respectful in conduct that call me Miss Heather out of convention. It's just....WEIRD to me, and uncomfortable. I probably would have done the same thing you did, said something like, "I'd prefer just Heather, the miss part weirds me out." or something. IMO, being respectful to the person is more important than whether a tradition/convention is followed.

I have NO problem with sir/ma'am being used with strangers, or in response to someone you don't know very well or in a more formal atmosphere, in fact, I use them myself.

I just - I can't pinpoint why it grates on me, the "Miss firstname" thing - it feels to preschool teacher-y, too ballet teacher-y, I dunno (and I was a ballet teacher for a little while, so I know whereof I speak). Maybe it's because titles are supposed to go with last names, not first names, and I'm a stickler? Who knows. All I know is that I cringe inside every time I hear "Miss Heather", almost like it's making me a little girl or something? Maybe that's part of it, I feel like it's actually infantalizing adult women to call them "miss", but men retain the adult "Mr." throughout their lives - maybe that's it!!

If I'm friendly enough with a kid that they're addressing me personally and regularly (like the kids of my friends), then they can use my first name, or Mrs. J; we don't need to be formal. If I'm not friendly enough to be chatting with them, then they can call me Mrs. Jones, or "X's mom" (insert kid's name).

I actually had this problem, a friend's husband INSISTED his kids call me Mrs. Jones, even though I really prefer Heather. It was......awkward, and I felt like the husband was disrtespecting *me* because he was going against my clearly stated preference. We don't see them anymore really because they go to a differnet school now, but MAN was that awkward.

IMO, formal does not necessarily equal respectful. I am really, really into courtesy and kindness, but titles don't do it for me. It's mroe about tone, and how you treat the person than what you call them.

If I had my druthers in order of preference, kids I come into contact with regularly would call me Heather. Next best is Mrs. J (I'm totally picturing my son as a teenager and a bunch of his friends asking me for snacks, "Mrs. J, do you have any chips?" Awwwwwwwww. :lol . Next best is Mrs. Jones. I'd really prefer not Miss Heather. I have a couple friends that slip into it sometimes because it's what they're used to, and I don't sweat it or make a big deal when they call me it, but I always call myself Heather.

Also, I *DO* have my kids call adults by what they want to be called. So if it's "Miss Jennifer", then by gum it's Miss Jennifer even though I don't prefer it.

Look at me all riled up about this!! :lol


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## KempsMama (Dec 1, 2008)

I live in the north, no one uses formalities up here and I miss it. I'm married, and wouldn't want to be called Miss because I haven't gone through everything I've gone through to be called Miss, thank you very much. :laugh


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

I never experienced it till we moved to the South. Now it just has kinda grown on me.My best friend had her kids call us Miss first name and Mr. first name. I don't bother me and I am sure it will probably be how DD address certain people as well.


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## abmom5 (Jan 24, 2010)

We don't use a lot of titles here...that I've noticed anyway. I always wonder how to introduce my kids to people older than me...I guess I should ask them how they would like to be called. I really think when people say "Miss" instead of "Mrs" they don't mean anything by it, we have just become lazy in our speech in our generation. I actually prefer Miss over Mrs...I guess Mrs makes me feel old  I prefer children to call me by my first name (or Weezie, my nickname, which my step kids call me). If it was important to another parent for their child to give me a title, I would prefer Miss Firstname...I dont know why. The formality thing makes me feel so .....old.


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm in the Northeast and that seems to be the norm here now, too. Not with older kids, but with the 2-5 crowd. I'm ok with it. I think it sounds a bit friendlier, less formal. I'm not a very formal kind of person. I would respect what someone else wants to be called, I've just noticed a lot of teachers and activity leaders using that phrasing. My son's gymnastics teacher calls herself Miss Amy. (He's 4.)


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I'm from the northeast but I've lived in the south for 5 years, plus my parents now live in FL. I don't know this for a fact, but I've decided the Miss thing is not really Miss (young unmarried miss) but almost like Ms. It's a catchall for a woman. Maybe it's even a simplified pronounciation of Mrs. Mrs. is a strange title anyway, I believe it derives from Mistress but with a weird pronounciation, Missus or Missers. Miss as short of Mistress makes sense, and Mistress is certainly the female head of household, not a young girl.

I think when they say Miss Heather they absolutely do mean a married adult, and that there is no confusion over your status.

And I do know how strange it feels for us Yankees to be called Miss, oh yeah.

Oh, and I think while it was ostensibly nice that you were asked what you wanted to be called, that there was only one right answer in that woman's head: Miss Heather. She was asking you whether it was Miss Heather or Mrs Jones, and if you had said Mrs Jones she would have told her kid to call you that but felt you were putting on airs. (Mrs Jones being okay for older ladies though, or the wife or a doctor or something).


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Could it also be from the use of "Ms." (as in, I don't know your marital status, so I'll use the one that doesn't imply marital status)?


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

I've lived in the Northeast for a number of years but grew up in the mid-atlantic region where Miss, Mr. and Mrs. was used commonly. I don't mind being addressed as Miss "whatever." DH and I have different last names, so sometimes I just tell kids or others to refer to me as [my first name]. Differing last names are common in my area, so at least from my perspective, it is respectful as well as safe to call someone "Miss/Ms. [first name] before they let you know how to actually address them. I agree with the PP that "Ms." is a catchall.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I'm uncomfortable with the Miss Firstname thing. I'd rather be called by my first name alone or Ms./Mrs. Lastname. I don't really care about the Miss vs. Ms. vs. Mrs. part of it.

I do think that correcting to "Mrs. Firstname" sounds a little odd -- I can understand saying, "You may call me Caneel or Mrs. Jones," but "Mrs. Caneel" sounds just as weird if not weirder than "Miss Caneel" to me.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *limabean*
> 
> I'm uncomfortable with the Miss Firstname thing. I'd rather be called by my first name alone or Ms./Mrs. Lastname. I don't really care about the Miss vs. Ms. vs. Mrs. part of it.
> 
> I do think that correcting to "Mrs. Firstname" sounds a little odd -- I can understand saying, "You may call me Caneel or Mrs. Jones," but "Mrs. Caneel" sounds just as weird if not weirder than "Miss Caneel" to me.


That's true. Mrs. Jones technically means "wife of Jones" so saying Mrs Heather is like "wife of Heather"... hmm, doesn't sound right.

So Miss is more suitable for first names because it's merely a respectful term for a female.

It's just an inbetween, I guess. A way of differentiating adults without going as far as Mrs Jones (not that I personally care about differentiating but that's cultural). Also keeps the woman's identity more intact. And acts as a Ms since it doesn't matter if you're married or not.

I used to get offended by all the name stuff but I've stopped caring. It does sound weird to me to be called Miss Laohaire but I consider it just cultural. I work with Russians and they have "translated" my name to a Russian version that sounds more natural to them (kind of like calling Mikhail, Michael - only the opposite). There really is no harm intended for Miss Heather, I just shrug and accept it the way it's meant.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

I guess I was always taught that Miss equaled young, never-married women, Mrs. equaled married of any age, and Ms. was for divorced women, whether they kept their ex-husband's name or switched back. But you never went back to Miss after having been Mrs. FWIW, I split my childhood between the NE and the South, but my part of the South is full of NE's...go figure! lol

Anyway, nowadays, I don't hear Mrs. as often, and when I do it's not always used "right", but that's besides the point. I think people, especially kids, are just too lazy to pronounce that pesky extra syllable...Miss is easier to say than Missus. Plus many women get married but don't change their last names, so maybe the title doesn't chacnge either? Dunno. So sad, our society today. lol

For simplicity, our female teachers usually go by a generic "Miss". I practically never hear Mrs., although I do try to force my jaw to go up and down that one extra time if I know the teacher is a married woman.

As for "Miss Firstname", I HATE that! I understand that it's taught to children as a way of showing respect, and in some cases it's akin to "Auntie Firstname", but I still hate it. If a parent wants to teach their kids formality and societal convention, I think that's wonderful. Just do it right and use Miss/Mrs./Ms. Surname.

I recently spent a few weeks doing after-school babysitting for 2 little girls who called me Miss Firstname and it drove me crazy. I kept saying "This is not a daycare and I am not your teacher. I'm your mama's friend. Call me Firstname, just like my kids call your mama Firstname." They finally got it after I started adding "Miss" to their names too! It was done in fun and we all laughed and they got the hint.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

Oh, forgot to say that I DETEST Mrs. Firstname. My ds1 used to go to a school run by a lady from India who had a 20-something letter surname and an easy first name, so all the called her Mrs. Firstname. Drove me batty and I made a point to explain to ds why and he ended being only one of a few who said Miss or Ms. Firstname.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blessedwithboys*
> 
> I guess I was always taught that Miss equaled young, never-married women, Mrs. equaled married of any age, and Ms. was for divorced women, whether they kept their ex-husband's name or switched back.


Ms was not intended as a designation for divorced women at all - it was supposed to be the female counterpart to Mr.

Men are Mr. no matter whether they are married or not. Before Ms. was "invented" in the 70s, a woman was Miss (unmarried) or Mrs (married) - completely defined by her marital status.

So Ms became the third option for women who did not wish to be defined by their marital status, whether they were never married, married, divorced, whatever.


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## KristyDi (Jun 5, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *laohaire*
> 
> I'm from the northeast but I've lived in the south for 5 years, plus my parents now live in FL. *I don't know this for a fact, but I've decided the Miss thing is not really Miss (young unmarried miss) but almost like Ms. It's a catchall for a woman. Maybe it's even a simplified pronounciation of Mrs.* Mrs. is a strange title anyway, I believe it derives from Mistress but with a weird pronounciation, Missus or Missers. Miss as short of Mistress makes sense, and Mistress is certainly the female head of household, not a young girl.
> 
> ...


:yeah to the bolded. I'm from the South. Miss FirstName is a catch all regardless of age or martial status. There is very little verbal distinction between Ms, Miss, and Mrs where I'm from. In fact I rarely ever pronounce Mrs. correctly. It's almost always shortened to "Miz". That's true for most of the people around here I think.


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## odenata (Feb 1, 2005)

I grew up in the south, and this was the common way to address adults. I've never liked it. Where I am now, in the PNW, kids generally just use first names by themselves, although teachers are Mrs. LastName.

What I find annoying in your story is that the other mom asked what you would like to be called, you said "Caneel" or "Mrs.Jones," and she told her dd to call you "Miss Caneel," which is neither of the options you presented. If she wasn't going to listen to your answer, she may as well not have asked.


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## bodhitree (May 12, 2008)

I'm kind of surprised that so many posters prefer "Mrs." Personally, I do not ever want to be called Mrs., whether my first name or my last name is what comes next. Hate it, hate it, hate it. Makes me feel like I'm living in 1962. The worst is "Mrs. Husbandsfirstname Husbandslastname." Makes me want to smack people.







I'm a Ms. and always have been. When talking to my DD and referring to other grown women, I do sometimes say "Ms. Firstname." So apparently we all have different preferences, and the polite thing to do is ask. Of course, you then have to actually listen to what the person prefers, unlike the lady in the original example.


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## Birdie B. (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KristyDi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


That's how I see it too. I don't mind at all, but I'm not easily offended. If parents want to teach their children to address adults with a title, that's fine with me. I'm still undecided on what I'll teach my daughter though.


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## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *laohaire*
> 
> Ms was not intended as a designation for divorced women at all - it was supposed to be the female counterpart to Mr.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this info. This thread had me wondering about this. I am about to start teaching, and was wondering about what to have the students call me. I'd be fine with my first name, but I'm guessing that isn't too acceptable in elementary schools. I'm married, but kept my last name. So, looks like I'll be a Ms. I have no interest in being defined by my marital status anyway.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bodhitree*
> 
> I'm kind of surprised that so many posters prefer "Mrs." Personally, I do not ever want to be called Mrs., whether my first name or my last name is what comes next. Hate it, hate it, hate it. Makes me feel like I'm living in 1962. The worst is "Mrs. Husbandsfirstname Husbandslastname." Makes me want to smack people.
> 
> ...


Same here!


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

OP here -

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *blessedwithboys*
> 
> I guess I was always taught that Miss equaled young, never-married women


Me too so I find it strange when someone addresses me at Miss. (in the interaction I described in my op, there was no question of my martial status) No one is going to confuse me with me to the fresh faced 22 yo, Miss Katie, who teaches the class, LOL.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *odenata*
> 
> What I find annoying in your story is that the other mom asked what you would like to be called, you said "Caneel" or "Mrs.Jones," and she told her dd to call you "Miss Caneel," which is neither of the options you presented. If she wasn't going to listen to your answer, she may as well not have asked.


Thinking about, this is probably what annoyed me the more than the Mrs. vs. Miss. If I had, for example, called her daughter Kelly instead of Kellyanna, I suspect she would have continued to correct me until I got it right. (I am basing this generalization of the number of "people shorten my child's name when I don't want them too" threads)


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

I prefer to just be "emily". Not Miss emily or Mrs emily or mrs lastname or anything of the sort. Just Emily. Or Em is fine too. I guess if I had to pick one of the three I do prefer miss emily/em. :shrug

ETA: Oh, and what I hate the most? Being "mrs husbands name". F'ing *HATE* it. DH's grandparents actually send me cards that way, which I absolutely 100% refuse to acknowledge. I am *NOT* my husband!!


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## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

I am offended by the term Miss and would be very upset if someone wanted to use it in my name. I also refuse to go by Mrs. There is simply no justification for addressing me based upon my marital status if males of all ages use the same term

I prefer equality in titles. So kids should call me by my first name. If a person wants to use a title then I think they should reciprocate and use a similar level of formality when addressing the other person regardless of age.

The exception would be a classroom teacher. I can see the need to project a feeling of authority.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Oh I'm in the northeast too & a lot of people use "Miss" up here too now. I do think it's weird but I don't care much either way. I'm Miss Firstname to some of the kids and just Firstname to the others. I prefer for them to just use my first name, I don't really like the teacherish feeling I guess? But, not a big deal. I do think it's odd that she asked you what you wanted to be called & then just ignored your answer.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque*
> 
> ETA: Oh, and what I hate the most? Being "mrs husbands name". F'ing *HATE* it. DH's grandparents actually send me cards that way, which I absolutely 100% refuse to acknowledge. I am *NOT* my husband!!


My mother addresses me the same way...has for years...even though she is painfully aware that I never legally changed my name. It is very, very difficult for her to acknowledge that I stuck with the name I was born with.







I totally respect when people want to go by their "married" name, but I think it is very hard for some people in my parents' generation to acknowlege that some people don't want to change their name. I mean, it just isn't proper! People (as in the general public) may think I'm not married!


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Ha! So true. Through work and social circles, we are in contact with a lot of 70+ year old couples and all of those wives most definately prefer the very old fashion and formal version of Mrs. John Smith and would be offended if addressed as Camille Smith. (I was told about this enough times that I always ask when addressing mail, no joke) Maybe they feel they worked darn hard to stay married 50+ years that they don't want to drop the title!

I have a friend whose mother is of that generation and mindset and it is fascinating to hear her talk about how she and her friends most definately went to college to earn a Mrs. degree. She learned to cook-to-entertain, run a household, do a household bduget, etc. when she was in college. Even though we are pushing 40, she still says things like "you girls today...."


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## gbailey (Mar 10, 2009)

I was born and raised in NYC by a southern mother. I was always brought up to call a person miss so and so or sister so and so for a much older person. Personally, I hate being called miss and my first name by a child or anyone. It personally irritates the heck out of me. I rather just be called by my first name. My friends daughter calls me Miss and my first name all of the time. I really wish she wouldn't but this is very important to her mother that she address older people by Miss and their first name or Mr and their first name.

I'd much prefer to be called Miss Bailey or Mrs Bailey than Miss and my first name.


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## nola79 (Jun 21, 2009)

Well, I'm from the south and it would never occur to me to use Mrs. It's always Miss firstname whether the person is married, single, divorced, whatever.

One of ds's friends calls me by my fristname only and it drives me crazy.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque*
> 
> ETA: Oh, and what I hate the most? Being "mrs husbands name". F'ing *HATE* it. DH's grandparents actually send me cards that way, which I absolutely 100% refuse to acknowledge. I am *NOT* my husband!!


See, I love this. When we get mail addressed to Mrs. husband's name Reed I squeal. I have no idea hwy, but I like it.


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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

DH was raised in western Pennsylvania and I grew up mostly in the South. We were both raised to call adults "Mr. Lastname" or "Mrs./Miss Lastname" and are teaching our children to do the same unless the adult in question asks them or us to call them by their first name.

Even today, we call plenty of DH's parents' friends "Mr." or "Mrs." Lastname although we're all adults. It really comes down to what the person being addressed wants to be called, but when in doubt we tend to err on the side of formality.









And I LOVE being called Mrs. [Husband's] Lastname. I don't really know why.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Everyone here does "Miss" but I make my kids use "Ms." I'm all for polite forms of address, but "miss" rings false to me, too. I mean... I'm old, I'm married, I don't need to be called "Miss".

And I agree... she should have used one of the options presented!


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## LaLaLaLa (Oct 29, 2007)

I absolutely HATE Miss Firstname. One of my friends does this with her son and it drives me so crazy. I prefer just my first name, although I have another friend who insists her kids call me Mrs. Lastname and that's acceptable. Miss Firstname is NOT. I guess I associate it with religion, perhaps unfairly, but that might be why I have such unpleasant feelings about it.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

First, I really can't imagine why it matters. second of all, I was raised in the south and yes I think everyone here has their kid call everybody else "miss" whatever. it's how I teach my kids. If it's really a close friend then it goes from miss firstname to Aunt firstname.

I do not allow my children to call adults by their first names only and I would probably not be offended but would think in my head "who cares" if someone tried to correct my 3 yo's pronunciation of the word "Mrs." As long as he puts *something* before the first name, I don't see what difference it makes.


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## nelson (Aug 12, 2008)

I am from the midwest, so maybe that is why I am really surprised how many people would actually feel "offended" if a child used there first name to address them. I think it makes a child feel more comfortable, an equal, if they are able to call you by your first name, we don't call kids "Little Boy Billy" or "Toddler Girl Suzi."


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

I don't like the Miss Firstname thing at all and would rather children (and everybody) call me by my first name only.


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

I grew up in New Jersey, and adults were always Mr. or Mrs. Lastname. I still feel like I should refer to real grownups as such, and have to check myself to remember that now I'm a grownup too!

The Miss thing always seemed very Southern to me, but I live in Massachusetts and it seems to be the norm here now for little kids to use Miss Firstname. It makes me feel like a preschool teacher (when I was a kid, that was the only time Miss Firstname was used in my experience), but I don't really mind it. I'd prefer my kids used Mrs. or Ms. Lastname, but the Miss Firstname thing seems to be what everyone else does so it's not really worth it to me to go against the grain like that.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

See, I don't mind being "defined by my marital status". I mean, I wear a wedding ring, which pretty much enables people to know that about me at a glance, whether I go by "miss" or "ms" or whatever. And when I meet new people, it's usually one of the first getting-to-know-you questions they ask. Given that I wouldn't refuse to answer them, why not just save them a step? I'm not really sure what horrific assumptions strangers could make about me based on the fact that I'm married, or how I'd feel much more liberated or feminist to be using my birth name... which of course, my rather male FATHER chose. (Yes, chose, he changed his last name in his twenties.)

That said, I don't like being called Mrs Lastname because it sounds like MIL.  I prefer just my first name, or a few people tell their kids to call me Aunty Firstname, which is fine. Honestly, though, I don't really like my first name. In an ideal world people would call me Smokering, and in fact most of my close friends do. DH calls me Smokey. It's much more me.


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## cyclamen (Jul 10, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lach*
> 
> I grew up in New Jersey, and adults were always Mr. or Mrs. Lastname. I still feel like I should refer to real grownups as such, and have to check myself to remember that now I'm a grownup too!


I still feel this way too. Super uncomfortable calling "grown ups" by their first name!


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

You know, actually, people in my grandmother's generation (like say, 75+) I will not call by their first name, unles they very, VERY specifically tell me not to call them by Mr./Mrs/Ms Lastname. As informal as I am with myself, I am very concerned with being respectful of older people on this topic.

I'm trying to think if my kids know anyone my parents' age they talk to directly (so the same generational gap as the above)....yes, one set of my parents' friends they have been specifically told they can call by their first names. They don't really talk to many other adults my parents' age or older unless it's a teacher or activity leader, and they use Title. Lastname for them.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

The4ofUs: ME TOO! i can not stand the whole "miss first name" thing. either call me Heather (my name too! lol) or call me mrs. last name. but i am not miss heather. it is weird and i don't like it.

h


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## Birdie B. (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nelson*
> 
> I am from the midwest, so maybe that is why I am really surprised how many people would actually feel "offended" if a child used there first name to address them. I think it makes a child feel more comfortable, an equal, if they are able to call you by your first name, we don't call kids "Little Boy Billy" or "Toddler Girl Suzi."


I am from the south, but I feel this way as well. Conversely, I am also very surprised how many people feel offended by being called Miss, Mrs., or Ms. They're just titles people use to show respect. I have nothing against that. If someone wants their child to use a title to address me as a way of showing respect, that's fine with me. It would never occur to me to be offended. I always address other adults with Mr. or Ms. in professional settings, until I'm asked to do otherwise. I hope I'm not offending people!


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I grew up in the midwest too and never addressed adults this way. I found it very odd when I saw it in the south. Never got it, it was so odd. I actually did not even like it.

Now years later, I find myself doing it. It seems enduring to me, not rude like it did when we first moved here. Don't know why my feelings have changed, they just have.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Birdie B.*
> 
> I am from the south, but I feel this way as well. Conversely, I am also very surprised how many people feel offended by being called Miss, Mrs., or Ms. They're just titles people use to show respect. I have nothing against that. If someone wants their child to use a title to address me as a way of showing respect, that's fine with me. It would never occur to me to be offended. I always address other adults with Mr. or Ms. in professional settings, until I'm asked to do otherwise. I hope I'm not offending people!


 I think a professional atmosphere is really, really differnet than a friendly encounter, and I conduct myself WAY differently in a professional place than with friends or out socially.


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## Karamom (Mar 26, 2007)

I've always lived in the NW. When I was a kid I adressed the adults as Mr. and Mrs. lastname. Now that I'm a gownup I never really hear anyone using titles anymore. People usually have there kids call me by my first name or "Momma Kara" (which I really like.) I don't like the sound of miss firstname at all! I wouldn't be offended but I just don't like it. I would much rather be Mrs lastname. I am married and I think miss sounds like a young girl.


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2010)

I grew up in the SE where Miss was commonly used. I always disliked & was confused by it, for it sounds demeaning. It has roots in slavery & the Southern Belle era.

Now that I live in the NW, I've found the term Ms. is used most commonly. It's really no one's business if you're married or single, and we definitely don't differentiate marital status via Mr., so Ms. makes sense. I don't even know if my son's teacher is married, since she goes by Ms. When I volunteer in my child's classroom, they call me Ms. X. I would be fine w/ just my first name (since that's also common here), but the school uses "Ms." and "Mr." for volunteers.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karamom*
> 
> People usually have there kids call me by my first name or "Momma Kara" (which I really like.)


 I actually think this is really sweet, too - to have friend's kids call you that strikes just the right mood IMO. I wonder if I can start that trend around here?


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nola79*
> 
> Well, I'm from the south and it would never occur to me to use Mrs. It's always Miss firstname whether the person is married, single, divorced, whatever.
> 
> One of ds's friends calls me by my fristname only and it drives me crazy.


Yep. Kids better call me "Miss Firstname" because I find kids yelling out my firstname seems WRONG to me. And yes, I'm from the South.


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## MJB (Nov 28, 2009)

I think it's because most women go by Ms. these days. I know I would be uncomfortable if someone called me Mrs. last name even though I am married. Ick. I've been a "Ms." forever. It's the standard in my world. I don't care whether kids call me "Ms. first name" or "Ms. last name" but I would not want to be called "Mrs. first name" "Mrs. last name" or "first name." I'm not sure if my kids have ever called anyone "Mrs." It's probably something that only exists in books for them. And their teachers, friends' parents, etc. are mostly married.

And when I receive things addressed to Mrs. husband's name, I get a little enraged. It's 2010 for goodness sake.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Okay, so in this thread we have people who hate Miss, people who hate Mrs., people who don't like Firstname. What's a parent to do? I say just pick a convention. If someone doesn't like it, they should speak up. We use "Miss/Ms. Firstname" but DD doesn't use it with everyone--I think her best friends' mom has said "No Miss, please." One could argue that one should ask every time, but that seems a lot to ask and sort of overly fussy to me.

Personally, if you called me Mrs. anything, it would be wrong. I kept my maiden name.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

I hate Miss First name too. I don't get offended by it, but it rubs me the wrong way.

I was Miss/Ms. Abbie when I was a preschool teacher and a swim coach, then Mrs./Ms. Last name as an elementary school teacher (would have rather been Ms. First name with my kindergartners but than was not the school's culture.) I think a title goes along with the formal position of authority.

On the playground or in the back yard I am not in a formal position of authority over anybody else there so it seems inappropriate. My kids are the only ones that I am an authority over and I already have a title, Mama. As for others, if I've just met you, you are not in any position of authority over my kids and I'm not comfortable being an authority over your kids so no need for a title. If you are a friend, then you are a friend, again, no need for a title. If it's a respect thing, than please respect me and call me Abbie or Ms. Last name.

Of course having said all of that, I live in Florida and depending on where you are it can be the deep south or a pocket of the northeast or some other mix of regional differences. I just go with the flow. I find that my relationships with other "Miss" moms tend to fizzle out over other differences anyway (at least so far) so it has never really been a huge issue.

OP, I think it was rude for the other parent to ask you what you preferred and then to immediately ignore your response and just go ahead and call you what they wanted to call you. That is not showing respect, which was the whole point of giving you a title in the first place.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

To my teenage students, I'm Ms. Lastname. They actually do pronounce it Mizz. I feel weird being called Mrs., but that's just me. My mom kind of drilled 1970s feminism into my head.

But, I'll have to get on board with Heather about the Miss Firstname thing. It drives me INSANE. When my friends instruct their kids to call me Miss Stacey, it drives me batty!!

Edited to remove something that could potentially offends SAHMs because of wording. I would looove to be a SAHM, so seriously, I meant no offense if you read it before I clicked edit.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> One could argue that one should ask every time, but that seems a lot to ask and sort of overly fussy to me.


I have to respectfully disagree, I don't think it's fussy at all.

Mom1: "Hi, I'm Heather. Nice to meet you."

Mom2: "Hi Heather, I'm Jen. Should my kids call you Heather, or use your last name instead?"

Mom1: "Heather is just fine, thanks for asking!" OR "I'd prefer Mrs. Jones, thanks for asking"

Mom2: "Jen is fine with me, too." OR, " I usually go by Ms. Smith."

Mom1: "Sooo, what do you guys like to do for fun?..........."

Done! That's what, 30 seconds? I've asked many friends outright, as our kids got to be 2-3 yrs old, what they prefer my kids to call them, and told them I am totally fine with their kids calling me Heather.

If it's not that familiar a situation, I would default to the more formal title lastname until told otherwise. The main problem in the OP is that they asked, and then ignored her request.


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## karanyavel (May 8, 2010)

Miss Firstname grates on my nerves, as does being called "hon", "honey", "sweetie", etc by strangers (e.g., female cashiers/waitresses in the South). Mrs. Husbandsfirstname Husbandslastname is even worse, though. GRRRRRRR... oh and "Aunt Firstname" by anyone other than nieces and nephews annoys me, too.

Just Firstname is best (even though I don't like my first name), although people close to me usually refer to me by the nickname my family uses, and I don't mind Ms. or Mrs. Lastname. My kids call people whatever they prefer to be called, but unless it's a relative I *personally* prefer they call the person Firstname. I don't really see why children should have to use a title to address adults unless it's a teacher or doctor or something.

--K


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## Mrs.Music (Jun 15, 2010)

I haven't really seen it because my kids aren't school aged yet... But I don't think I'd like it. It's fine for say... Daycare/Preschool workers who are unmarried and/or like a more informal environment. I think people are trying to get their kids to be respectful of the fact that you are not peers, without making it too formal. I, however, am not comfortable with that. I don't want children who are not related to me using my first name. And I'm not a "miss." So my neices and nephews (biological and honorary) can call me Aunt Bri, but I will expect my kids' friends to call me Mrs. Music. Or KidName'sMom. My mom was always "Brianna's Mom" and that was pretty funny.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I still find it fussy to ask every time. I don't know. My kids meet so many people. Also, I think it's a lot to ask for a 2yo to remember all the different preferences (I'm not even likely to remember). There's a reason we look for a general rule in these situations. I mean, that isn't to say I don't try to remember if someone specifically requests a certain mode of address. I do. But I think all this anger on this subject is a little odd, especially given that very few people here have said THEY ask every time. It seems like most people think their custom is the "right" one and all the others are wrong!



> If it's not that familiar a situation, I would default to the more formal title lastname until told otherwise.


But why? What we see here is that people don't agree on what the default is or should be. Also, to be perfectly, honest, I often don't remember the last names of people I am only somewhat familiar with. For instance, I know all the first names of the parents of DD's classmates, but last names? Oy. No.



> If it's a respect thing, than please respect me and call me Abbie or Ms. Last name.


How do we know that that's what you prefer unless you say so?

Obviously, part of this is regional. I'm a Northerner, but I live in the South, and around here Miz Firstname is common.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't think you have to ask. If your child introduces himself/herself, the person will introduce himself/herself in the way he/she wants to be called. And if you can handle remembering individual names, I don't see why you can't also remember how that person likes to be addressed. It might be difficult for a 2-year-old, but then remembering names at all is difficult for that age. Neighbor kids were much older than that and still calling me "Sophia's Mom".

Though I will say that while I am not a fan of "Miss Suzanne", I've gotten used to it since I've lived in Southern Ill. long enough and it seems pretty common here. It did irritate me at first but I don't really notice it anymore.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I guess I feel like formal introductions don't happen that much in my life? I don't know. I feel like it's more like DD refers to someone in my hearing as "Kid's Mom" and I say "Her name is X." The person well may not even be in hearing range. DD uses the "Miss" convention (also calls men Mr. Firstname) so she would then call her that. I am going to try to pay a little more attention to this, and ask if the moment arises naturally, but it's hard for me to imagine getting really invested in it, and I certainly hope people will give my 2yo a bye if he gets it wrong! I still feel that if it's really important to people, they should speak up. It wouldn't bother me at all if they did. A simple, "Oh, you can call me Firstname" is certainly okay.


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## HeliMom (Jan 14, 2010)

We are from the north and I refuse to respond to Mrs. Lastname if i have explained my name is Ms.Lastname, Mrs. Lastname is my grandmother (because my mother is Dr.Lastname and my Lastname never changed when I got married.) That's because people should be called what they ask to be called. Seriously. But that's only with unfamiliar adults and unfamiliar children. With children that I'm watching I prefer Firstname only.

You gave 2 options neither of which were respected so you very politely corrected them. I think you were perfectly within the realm of reason.

I don't know if you are looking for ways you could have dealt with it differently that might have gone over smoother. If you are I'd say that since you offered your firstname as the first option it conveyed that you were comfortable with being addressed in a more informal manner. When you were called by Ms.Fisrtname, by correcting it to Mrs.Lastname as opposed to just Firstname you were retracting the familiar nature of your relationship. In my culture going from telling someone you can use familiar speech to taking that away usually means you are really angry. It a pretty big insult. I'm doubting that that's the case here but it was my first thought. Anyway that's only if you were looking to change things from your own perspective honestly what you did was fine.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karanyavel*
> 
> Mrs. Husbandsfirstname Husbandslastname is even worse, though. GRRRRRRR.


I go by this only on formal stationery, Dr. and Mrs. DHFirstName DhLastName. I don't think it's used in general conversation at all in any social circles. On informals (correspondence cards), I just have my first name.

Dd's friends use Mrs. LastName in general, but teachers here (midwest) often go by either FirstName or Miss FirstName. I was *not* raised that way, so this is new to me, but I'll go with the flow. I don't mind if people use Miss Velochic or Velochic or Mrs. LastName. I'd like them to ask first, though, as I prefer Mrs. LastName.

We used to live in Germany. They use EVERY title afforded a person. Dh was Herr Doktor Professor LastName and I was formally Frau Doktor Professor LastName. It always cracked me up. There *is* a middle ground and I think just asking is the best course of action.


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

Maybe it's just me, but I personally wouldn't correct another parent about what to address me. Unless, obviously, they got my name wrong 

I think it's their prerogative to decide what level of respect they want their kids to show adults, just like I can teach my kids the same. So if they want their children to say Mrs. or Ms. or not use any title at all, I think that wish should be respected. I do have to admit that I wince a little when I get called Miss Lach, because to me it sounds weird, but if that's the way another parent wants to teach a young child to address adults, I don't think it would actually accomplish anything worthwhile to correct them. If another parent said "This is Miss Lach" to their young child, I think it would actually be somewhat rude of me to say "Oh, just call me Lach." I wouldn't have a problem telling a teenager (who already understands social convention and won't get confused by the idea that they can use different levels of formality for different people) not to worry about formalities, but for a preschooler who is just learning social conventions, I would rather respect the parent's choice of what social conventions they're teaching.

As I said, obviously I would correct if they got my name wrong. I guess I just see correcting another parent as kind of undermining them. So long as it's not totally out there, I guess I just don't see what a little kid calls me as that big a deal and worth making an issue out of.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

I live in the south and I'm pretty used to Miss firstname although I'm fine with just firstname too. Miss lastname wouldn't work and neither would Mrs. lastname since I didn't take my husband's name. I think that if I don't demand the formality it's up to the parent's preference for how much formality they require. I might correct someone who used Mrs. lastname or Ms. lastname (around here both sound like Mizz) because that just isn't how I identify myself but I would offer up Miss firstname as a compromise. If it was very important to them that their children use the lastname version I don't think I would be too irritated. I have to admit it amuses me when people younger than grandparent age want the title and lastname. I might involuntarily roll my eyes but I would comply. FWIW Miss firstname is a sign of respect/formality but it does not connote marital status at all whereas Miss lastname would.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lach*
> 
> I think it's their prerogative to decide what level of respect they want their kids to show adults, just like I can teach my kids the same. So if they want their children to say Mrs. or Ms. or not use any title at all, I think that wish should be respected. I do have to admit that I wince a little when I get called Miss Lach, because to me it sounds weird, but if that's the way another parent wants to teach a young child to address adults, I don't think it would actually accomplish anything worthwhile to correct them. If another parent said "This is Miss Lach" to their young child, I think it would actually be somewhat rude of me to say "Oh, just call me Lach." I wouldn't have a problem telling a teenager (who already understands social convention and won't get confused by the idea that they can use different levels of formality for different people) not to worry about formalities, but for a preschooler who is just learning social conventions, I would rather respect the parent's choice of what social conventions they're teaching.
> 
> As I said, obviously I would correct if they got my name wrong. I guess I just see correcting another parent as kind of undermining them. So long as it's not totally out there, I guess I just don't see what a little kid calls me as that big a deal and worth making an issue out of.


You know, actually, this is kind of how I feel too, when it comes down to it. Personally, I would only correct if they said Mrs. Mylastname (since there is no person by that name at my house--again, kept my maiden name). Even then, I might not. I get called Mrs. Mylastname all the time by doctors, teachers, etc and I virtually never say anything unless it's actually important somehow. I also gets called Mrs. Husbandslastname, which is also wrong. One of my closer friends thinks this is my name--I suppose I should correct her at some point.  Heck, my husband gets called Mr. Mylastname sometimes and he doesn't always correct it. And then my kids have hyphenated names, so sometimes people think I have that name. Enh. The only time it truly bothers me is when the kids' own grandparents don't remember their last name correctly.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

I forgot that I get 'Miss/Mizz dc's names mom' quite a bit. It's a mouthful but I find it kinda cute.


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## dakotablue (Jun 21, 2009)

I was told as a little girl by my Southern Uncle that Miss. first name is kinda like saying Lady first name because in the south all women are Ladies, kinda like princesses.

I doubt that truly translates, but it kinda makes sense to me (and made me want to move south as a kid







)


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *loraxc*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


LOL, actually now that you mention it, I get called the wrong name all the time too and only correct if it's important. I kept my maiden name, but my kids have DHs name and unless it's someone that I'm going to be friends with and I want them to know my name I usually let it slide. Like, the receptionists at the kids' pediatrician call me "Mrs. kidslastname" which makes sense, because that's the paperwork they have in front of them. And I could correct them, but it's not like they really care, and it just kind of makes their life tougher to add a note that I have a different last name that they should use. Things like that come up all the time, and I just let it go.

OTOH, maybe that's why I don't really care what kids call me... I also don't really care what adults call me! (cue my dad, quite the comedian, saying "just don't call me late to dinner.")


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## Birdie B. (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PoppyMama*
> 
> I live in the south and I'm pretty used to Miss firstname although I'm fine with just firstname too.
> 
> FWIW Miss firstname is a sign of respect/formality but it does not connote marital status at all whereas Miss lastname would.


This.

And a side note: It's just not something worth getting offended over. Honestly. As a Southerner, I feel like we're always having to explain our customs and our vernacular because people get all up in arms about being addressed a certain way. It's not meant as an insult, it's just how we talk. I don't have a thick accent, but I pronounce Ms./Miss/Mrs. the same way. And not all adults are comfortable with children using their first name, so we err on the side of formality until otherwise specified. I use ma'am and sir, too.


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## HeliMom (Jan 14, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lach*
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but I personally wouldn't correct another parent about what to address me. Unless, obviously, they got my name wrong
> 
> ...


What exactly its rude about standing up for yourself? They asked the OP what she wished to be called then ignored her wishes.

Frankly if you are teaching a child to respect people, then you need to respect them.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

I think of the "Miss" thing as a kind of dialect. I know of countries that have a few dialects and kids address elders in different ways. Nobody expects kids to learn the dialect of every adult they meet. In my dialect, "Miss" means "unmarried woman". In the South... I have no idea, apparently, "woman who has graduated from high school" or just "woman older than you"? I don't know. But I'm not going to force a child from Florida to say "Ms." unless I get to know them well. Then I'd take the time to explain it. If I don't have time to explain it, it's probably not that big of a deal.


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## Petie1104 (Oct 26, 2010)

From the south here...

OK, I'm from the south (TN) so maybe my explanation is different than other southerners. I've discovered in my travels that there are about 4 souths down here (Florida and Louisiana have their very own different souths than the western south and eastern south, I swear I've noticed this.) OK so anyway, here is how we used it....

I knew a Mrs. Byrd, she was the very formal stuck up principal of our school

I knew a Mrs. Borens also very formal and kind of stuck up.

All the ones that were friendly and down to earth were Miss

If I would have called any adult by their first name, specifically female adults, I'd have gotten corrected quickly as that is disrespectful. Children were to address adults with something other than their first name, to do otherwise would have been disrespectful.

So in my experience, Mrs. was specifically for extremely formal and in my experience (no offense but this may explain the dirty looks you got) stuck up women. Miss was for friendly women, and first names were if you were really brave and not afraid of punishment.


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeliMom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Well, my comment wasn't really about OP, but about some of the discussion after. I agree that it was weird that OP was asked and then the woman didn't follow her preference. If the other mother actually had a preference and was going to use it no matter what IMO she should have just done used it, and dealt accordingly if OP had objected. It was just weird and confusing for her to ask and then ignore what OP said.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


*My dad's side of the family is German (and still living in Germany) so my thought process immediately runs to my upbringing - one would never, never, never call someone Miss when they were married. It would be a huge insult. Further, one always addresses a new friend in the formal tense until told to do otherwise. *

*The adults I knew growing up that I addressed by their first names were American families. All German relatives were addressed formally.*

*It is interesting to learn about regional differences. *


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## lilmom (Nov 9, 2008)

Another Southerner here. In my neck of the woods, "Miss" and "Mrs." are basically pronounced the same way. "Ms." I guess. And I agree with pp who said it would be considered disrespectful for a child to call an adult by their first name. I was raised that teachers were Ms. Lastname.

With my son, if we are close personal friends with someone he calls them Ms. Firstname or Mr. Firstname. (Ex. Ms. Christy or Mr. Brad) But if we don't know them, then it's Mr. or Mrs. Lastname until they say otherwise. This goes for anyone significantly older than him, regardless of whether they are married or not. His babysitter he calls Miss Firstname. But doesn't matter, Mrs or Miss would both be pronounced like Ms.

I guess it is totally foreign to me that anyone would be offended by being called Mrs. or Ma'am. However, I would probably do whatever the person requested, if they wanted to be called by their first name, etc. But I do think that might be confusing for my kid! LOL

I certainly wouldn't be offended, myself. I think I was getting that from around 18 years old, and I looked young, and was definitely not married.

Very interesting to me that people would be offended.


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## Ambystoma (Mar 26, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nelson*
> 
> I am from the midwest, so maybe that is why I am really surprised how many people would actually feel "offended" if a child used there first name to address them. I think it makes a child feel more comfortable, an equal, if they are able to call you by your first name, we don't call kids "Little Boy Billy" or "Toddler Girl Suzi."


Yes! I'm a midwesterner by birth (and by parenting) so I felt really creepy moving to the south as a kid when I was suddenly expected to call people "Miss X", etc. I was also the only one of my peers to call my uncles and aunts by their first names only-not "Uncle X".

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *staceychev*
> 
> To my teenage students, I'm Ms. Lastname. They actually do pronounce it Mizz. I feel weird being called Mrs., but that's just me. My mom kind of drilled 1970s feminism into my head.
> 
> ...


Yep-I'm either Kara or Ms. to my adult college students, though I prefer to be just Kara. At some point, I'll have a "Dr" title so this will all be a moot point...


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *laohaire*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


There is more to this than just Ms. being invented in the '70s.

Back in the time of more formal English (a few hundred years ago) married and unmarried men *did* use separate titles.

Married man = mister

Married woman = mistress

unmarried boy = master

unmarried girl = miss

Over time, master got forgotten as a simple title for unmarried boys and evolved into a title that implies authority and is rarely used with a name. Mistress evolved into a euphamisism for the woman a married man had an affair with. Simultaniously the title Mistress became contracted into the pronunciation mis-suss.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm either called Mr. Mylastname or, more often by DD's friends just by my first name (it can get confusing since I took DH's last name when I married).

Miss Firstname sounds very much like gently scolding/reminding a young female. You know, like "excuse Miss. DD's first name, I do believe you've forgotten to put your dishes in the sink." To me it sounds very awkward coming from a child and directed at a woman.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Miss Firstname sounds very much like gently scolding/reminding a young female. You know, like "excuse Miss. DD's first name, I do believe you've forgotten to put your dishes in the sink." To me it sounds very awkward coming from a child and directed at a woman.


 Ooh, maybe this is part of it for me, too - it just doesn't feel respectful to me at all, it feels demeaning honestly to be called "Miss Firstname", a little condescending. It feels awkward to me whether coming from a child or adult...the only time I ever use miss for my daughter is when she's "in trouble", so that's probaly a big part of it for me.

I guess I could get behind the "pick a convention and stick to it until told otherwise" idea *IF* people were:

a) Straightforward and polite enough to request a change kindly (instead of bluster internally and get offended), and

b) Other people wouldn't take offfense at beign politely requested to change and actually listened to the request.

I don't get the "its too confusing for little kids" thing - I'm actually not putting this on kids at all, but on their parents. It's the adults that usually do the introducing, and the calling for the first several years, so if you go around for a while calling a person by their first name that's what your kid is going to do, too. And if someone else goes by Miss Firstname, they'll get it. Just like my kids got that jumping on the couch at home was okay, but at Nana's was not okay, they both got that before they were 3 years old.

I said that the Miss Firstname thing makes me cringe internally.....which it does - if it's someone I've just met I'll politely say that I prefer just my first name, and the first couple times they forget I'll gently remind them again. I'm not offended by it though, or insulted. And as for being insulted by being asked to call anyone something specific, that's just silly IMO - people should be allowed to be called by whatever name they want without worrying about what social conventions may be the norm in the area they are living.


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

Posting before reading so I'm honest in my reply - then going back to the thread. The MIss Firstname was a thing my friends all agreed upon when we first had kids. Nobody liked Mrs Lastname - we felt like our moms. (FYI we live in New England) Soooo MIss Firstname it became (solidified for me when a neighbor's child - 7 or so at the time, walked up upon first intros...."Nice to meet you Andrea" I stood looking at this small person thinking " Huh? That sounds weird coming out of her mouth. And I'm uncomfortable" (her parents and their belief systems - though so I respect and roll with

Granted I was brought up with Mrs Lastname to ANY adult - so I'm probably ingrained. And I don't think kids are small adults. I love them and am the funny playful mom - but I've racked up some more time on this earth and with age comes some wisdom and that whole package should accord some respect vis-a-vie title.

The kids who are very close with me - my friends litttles - who I adore - I'm Miss Andrea to them. When I voluteer at the elementary school it's all Mrs Lastname

I've always gone by the wishes of the other parent, though, I respect what others want to teach to their children. The Miss First Name is what we're comfortable in our corner of Red Sox nation, though


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

It's part of the accepted vernacular for our group it has stopped being weird. My best friend's kids all me "Miss Andrea" and it's auto. I like it beause it gives a level of close, special familiarity while maintaining boundaries. It's their "in" title for me and my kids call a handful of mothers in our life "Miss Firstname." Over time - it has come to be a sort of aunt. It denotes a female in the "pack" (so to speak) without indicatng a blood/marriage relationship


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## Stephenie (Oct 11, 2007)

I am from the PNW and back home, everyone referred to themselves as "firstname." Unless it was a teacher or leader type position. School teachers were "Mr/Ms/Mrs Lastname and activity leaders were sometimes their first name and sometimes Miss Firstname. We moved to TX several months ago and I hate being called "Miss Stephenie." It sounds contrived to me. It's also been a struggle to decide if I should teach the kids to refer to people as "Miss Firstname" or just by their names. I don't want them to be seen as rude, but I also hardly think we should change how we do things just to "blend in."


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## serenaanderson (Jul 13, 2010)

I can't stand Miss First name either. A former coworker had her son call people that and it took a lot of getting used to. My mother and I used to tutor at the same school and it happened to me there because I wasn't married and stuck after I got married. I am from Kentucky and was always taught Miss meant young, never married, Ms meant older, never married or divorced, and Mrs meant married.


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## eloise24 (Nov 17, 2005)

Another transplanted into the south Northerner here . . . I don't like being called "Miss Erika" but to me it's more about the child being polite. It's not the end of the world to me, so I just let them . . . it seems silly (again, to me) to pick a battle over what some other parent has chosen to teach their child is good manners.

I guess what I'm saying is that even though I don't like being called that, I'm just grateful that the child's parents actually taught them something! I see so many kids who have been taught nothing and are disrespectful, that it cheers my heart to be reminded that there are lots of parents out their doing the best they can to teach respect. Even if it's not exactly the title I'd like to be called.

Erika


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

I'm a NJ'er with family in deep South Carolina--I think it's just a regional thing. My BIL's mother was introduced to me as Miss Kathy (or Miz Kaaaaaathhhhyyyyyyy) and it's just how they do it. I wouldn't read a lot of meaning into. My BIL also refers to my mom as Mother Smith, which cracks all of us. But, we just accept that it's how they do it down there.

My NJ husband calls my mom "Crazy Lady" usually. Things are different here...


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## YummyMummy2010 (Nov 20, 2010)

lol... I'm originally from London England, where it is a lot more formal. As a child you are raised not to use first names full stop! (period! ha). So if the person is married you would say Mrs. Last Name, if single Miss Last Name or for men married or unmarried Mr. Last Name. I now live in the south and teach my kids to use the accepted address of Miss first name or Mr. first name. I really don't mind it, but when we go home to England to visit, some of my married friends have mentioned that they don't really care for it.lol. I'm totally of the opinion that, when in Rome...


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

I think I'd take Miss Firstname over DS1's Mom, which is how I usually get addressed by kids. I've only rarely been called Mrs Lastname and don't really like it.

I think it varies alot by where you are. I'm in the Northwest and it's just not common here. I do have a friend who grew up in New Orleans and her kids (who've always lived here) call women Miss Firstname.


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

That's interesting about Ms. being "invented" in the 70's. That makes perfect sense to me. I don't remember which PP explained that, but thanks! Wasn't there even a popular magazine called "Ms."??

For me, I prefer to be called by my first name. I never connected with the "Mrs." title either. And "Miss" is what I was raised (northern midwest, North America) with being called on birthday or holiday greeting cards from my older relatives or if an adult was reprimanding me. EX: "Miss Natalie, just what do you think you're doing?!?" - "Miss Natalie Ophelia Mansfield" etc. So, "Miss" does remind me of a young girl addressed by an authority figure, either positively or negatively. With my name I usually get some sort of nickname that people are trying to be cool or funny by tagging me with if they only use my first name. That's annoying in itself.

Actually, call me whatever you want...

... just please, PLEASE don't call me "MA'AM"!! lol.


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

My experience has been that younger kids are often directed to use Miss/Ms. Firstname (honestly, they sound exactly the same pronounced) while older kids are directed to use Ms/Miss/Mrs. Lastname.

When we were part of playgroups with lots of younger kids, almost all the kids called the other moms Miss/Ms. Firstname. Once we started homeschooling, we found that most parents seemed to want their kids to call other adults Mrs. Lastname. (if married) or to be called Mrs. Lastname.

We've lived in the North, the South, Midwest...honestly this has been the same everywhere. The one exception being that classes taught by young adults (in their 20's) tend to be Miss/Ms. Firstname.

However, usually it seems that the preschool and younger set go by Ms/Miss Firstname while older kids are expected to use Mrs. Lastname. I always figured this was usually because first names are often easier to remember and pronounce for young kids.

For the most part, I honestly don't care what kids call me. Some kids call me Miss/Ms. Amelia and some call me Mrs. Lastname. I honestly don't care. I don't like for kids to just use my first name however. I like some sort of title. I feel that with my age...I deserve it. :lol.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Here its "miss or mr. firstname"

We joined a natural moms group and that seems to be what everyone goes by, so we went along with it. It seems common here, and although its a little weird, I've gotten used to it and it makes it easy to tell ds what to call people b/c I dont have to know their last name!


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## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

I was familiar with the "Miss FirstName" growing up, for less formal situations. This was in the midwest but also military (and therefore influenced by all over). Most adults I didn't know well, I used Miss / Mrs / Mr LastName. Occasionally a woman would indicate her preference for "Ms. LastName", and then I would use that. And, occasionally, we might get a neighbor who would go with the honorary title "Aunt FirstName." That's okay too.

I don't recall ever calling an adult by just their first name, until I went to college (with fellow students, peers, it seemed natural). Then on my internships, where it was coworkers, that's where I started shifting over to adult usage.

Living in the south as a married woman, I am a *little* bit irked to be called "Miss" by service personnel, without my name (since they don't know me). But I don't really feel like a "Mrs." either, but I think it's because I'm still young enough / short enough to be ambiguous. Sometimes I'll get "Ma'am," and as a married woman, I think I actually prefer that.

For children (not teens) that I relate to regularly, since I'm still used to dealing with people on a first-name basis, count me as one of those odd people. My order of preference at the moment, for younger children, is:

"Miss FirstName"

or, less preferred / more formal, "Mrs. LastName"

Working with adolescents at church, though, I can go with just "FirstName."


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## madcap150 (Jan 11, 2008)

I have a couple of thoughts only marginally related to the original post :lol but related to the direction this thread has taken. I think the clear issue in the original post was asking what OP preferred and then ignoring it.

However, in terms of form of address:

1. It was a convention in the English language to address all adult women as "mistress," BEFORE it became separated into "miss" and "mrs." So there was a tradition NOT to care about marital status in addressing women, but we abandoned it along the way.

2. As we can see in this thread, a big part of the issue with formal address is that we all have strong feelings on the "Mrs/Miss/Ms" thing, in different directions. Many other languages have solved this, especially in European countries. In Germany, for example, as a PP mentioned, address is formal by default, period. However, the big difference is that Germany has changed their conventions over the past, I don't know, 60 years? so that any adult woman is Frau, period. The word "Fräulein" (Miss) still exists, but is just not in use for adult women. So "Frau" is the default address for adult women and no one gets offended to be called it. So long as we cling to the idea that women get different forms of address for different marital status, we will always have problems with some of us feeling strongly that we DON'T want to be called Mrs/Ms/Miss whatever.

3. Finally, it's obvious from this thread that there's currently no one right answer, and one thing that it's helped me to realize is that other people have MASSIVELY different associations with words than I do. Forms of address that give me a knee-jerk HATE reaction are endearing to others! One example for me is "lady." I HATE the word lady and teach my DS to call unknown women "woman" rather than "lady" (as in "that woman we met at the restaurant asked how old I was.") I know the traditional definition of "lady" is positive, but my association with it is (picture the crassest man you possibly can): "Hey lady! You forgot one of your grocery bags over here!" Just unpleasant. So I'm sure some of you LOVE to be called lady, and I hate it! Just food for thought-- we can't please everyone, but knowing that others feel differently can help us recognize why someone's uncomfortable with a form of address we love.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *number572*
> 
> That's interesting about Ms. being "invented" in the 70's. That makes perfect sense to me. I don't remember which PP explained that, but thanks!


It wasn't invented in the 70's... unless you're talking about the 1670's! I don't know who said this, but they're wrong. While it was not used as much for a time, it's been very much in use for over 100 years and was prior to that, centuries ago.









Formal forms of address have been around for a long, long time... and in some circles are still used (especially in written correspondence, which does still happen for many people.)


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Ms as in "Ms" was used centuries ago? Not "mistress" or "missus", but "Ms"? Can I see some references for that?


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokering*
> 
> Ms as in "Ms" was used centuries ago? Not "mistress" or "missus", but "Ms"? Can I see some references for that?


Google "etymology of ms." I don't know if it was used in spoken language, but it was used in the written language that far back. It fell out of use, but it certainly wasn't "invented" in the 1970's.

From wiki:

"Ms.", along with "Miss" and "Mrs.", began to be used *as early as the 17th century* as titles derived from the then formal "Mistress", which, like Mister, did not originally bear reference to marital status.[4][5] "Ms." however, fell into disuse in favor of the other two titles and was not revived until the 20th century.[6][7]


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Huh. So does "modern" Ms officially stand for "mistress" too, or is it meant to be a complete title in and of itself?

One factoid I've always found cool is that cooks used to be called Mrs as a sign of respect/status, even if they were unmarried.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Fascinating!


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *velochic* 

Quote:
Originally Posted by *number572* 

That's interesting about Ms. being "invented" in the 70's. That makes perfect sense to me. I don't remember which PP explained that, but thanks!

It wasn't invented in the 70's... unless you're talking about the 1670's! I don't know who said this, but they're wrong. While it was not used as much for a time, it's been very much in use for over 100 years and was prior to that, centuries ago.









Formal forms of address have been around for a long, long time... and in some circles are still used (especially in written correspondence, which does still happen for many people.)

ok, here's why i said "invented". was just sort of quoting while being too lazy to go back and find the post. the feminism idea (MR. and MS., neither representing one's marital status) made sense. thx for the history, its interesting and i never thought too much about it before this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *laohaire* 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blessedwithboys*
> 
> I guess I was always taught that Miss equaled young, never-married women, Mrs. equaled married of any age, and Ms. was for divorced women, whether they kept their ex-husband's name or switched back.


Ms was not intended as a designation for divorced women at all - it was supposed to be the female counterpart to Mr.

Men are Mr. no matter whether they are married or not. Before Ms. was "invented" in the 70s, a woman was Miss (unmarried) or Mrs (married) - completely defined by her marital status.

So Ms became the third option for women who did not wish to be defined by their marital status, whether they were never married, married, divorced, whatever.


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## BetsyS (Nov 8, 2004)

I'm from the deep south, so we are Miss/Mr Firstname here, too. I called my great-grandmother's friends Miss Ada and Miss Sister (she had a name, but everyone called her Sister). It's very common where I live.

And, I'm with the pp. I can't hear the difference between "Mrs/Miss/Ms". They all sound the same to me. Just like pen and pin. We had a first year teacher in the 3rd grade from "up north", and it made her crazy that none of us could hear the difference between pen and pin. Odd language quirk.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted by *blessedwithboys*
> ...


What Laohare said. I almost fell off my chair when I saw that you were taught Ms was for divorced women! That's like the opposite of what it was trying to do!


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

Old thread revival....but I was at the elementary school today volunteering and two of my friends' kids walked by me and enthusiastically said "Hi Miss Andrea!!" and gave me big hugs. (kids rock  It didn't feel weird or overtly formal. I was there to chaperone and was acting in a teacher-like capacity. It fit and seemed appropos. The kids I know seem A-OK with the Miss FirstName. For us, meaning the parents I know, it's level of familarity that kids don't have with teachers (Mrs/Mr Last Name) and feels more like an "inner circle"/family thing. We're not aunts, but we're close to the littles who call us that and we all (kids included) know it denotes a special relationship.


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

I work in preschool and we do alot of Miss Beth even tho she is actually married, or Miss Sharon. A persons maritial staus is none of my childs business honestly. They are adding in a show of respect, I think that should do just fine.

However, if you have expressed an issue with it, it would be rude for the kids to call you Miss at this time.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blessedwithboys*
> 
> As for "Miss Firstname", I HATE that! I understand that it's taught to children as a way of showing respect, and in some cases it's akin to "Auntie Firstname", but I still hate it. If a parent wants to teach their kids formality and societal convention, I think that's wonderful. Just do it right and use Miss/Mrs./Ms. Surname.


If you grew up in the deep south it would just sound normal to you. I live in Colorado now and still accidentally refer to adult friends or neighbors as Mr firstname or Miss fristname when talking to my 5 year old. It's just such a habit after decades of hearing it.


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