# santa claus



## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

i wasn't sure where to post this, but i've been thinking about it a lot lately. DD is obviously much too young to understand christmastime this year, but in coming years, she'll be more and more aware of it, so i'm just curious about how people handle santa claus.

my basic issue is that i remember being a child and doubting the existence of santa claus. i would ask my parents if they believed in santa, and they said they did, and they kept up the illusion for awhile until i was old enough to really know. well, once i realized there was no actual santa claus, i remember feeling very betrayed, very upset that my parents had lied to me. this is how i experienced it. it made me feel like how could i trust anything they told me...

i recognize this is probably not a typical reaction. i don't know why i reacted that way. it might have more to do with other dynamics in my relationship with my parents than with the actual santa clas thing.

but anyway, i used to feel like i would never want to do santa claus with my child(ren) because i had this reaction so how could i perpetrate this on them. now i feel like maybe that's too extreme, since obviously not all, or even very many, kids respond like this to the revelation that there's no santa (and easter bunny, tooth fairy, etc.--i was even more angry that it seemed like a vast conspiracy!!!







). and i think for lots of kids it's just very fun.

i hope this is making sense. so do any of you not do santa (who otherwise would, religion-wise, etc.) because of the "lying" component of it? if you do do it, how do you understand/think of what you are doing so that it doesn't feel like lying?


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

I plan on doing the Santa thing with my children. DS is 20 months old so he doesn't really understand yet but he does a little. Santa was always a big thing in my family and when I found out he wasn't real when I was 8, I wasn't upset. My mom explained to me that Saint Nicolas had been a real person once a long time ago and that Santa Claus was just a way to keep him alive in our hearts and spread the spirit of Christmas.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

I have nothing but positive memories about Santa. It was a magical part of Christmas. When I was old enough to doubt, I asked my mom and she gave me an answer that wasn't a lie, but would allow me to choose to believe longer if I wanted to (which I did!). Something about Santa being real as long as you believed in him, or something like that. I knew, really, that he wasn't, but wasn't ready to let go of the childish idea that I found so magical at Christmas each year. I can't even imagine depriving my kids of Santa. I won't lie, either, but perhaps be intentionally vague like my mom


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

We sort of do the Santa thing, but with a very literal child it's hard for him to believe it's real. We read some of the books (like the Polar Express), go to NoradSanta each year to watch him fly around the world, and watch some of the old movies.

BUT, I have also been preparing them for the day when they don't really believe. We've read the true story of St. Nicholas, seen how Christmas is celebrated around the world, discussed how we need to help Santa because it's a big job, and even with reindeer he can't make it to every house - the ornaments on the tree at the mall are a way we can help make sure he comes to more homes. We read _Yes Virginia, There Is A Santa Claus_, and talk about what Santa means - hope, laughter, giving...

So, I have one 8yo believer still and one 5yo who never could believe, really, but loves the idea of Christmas and Santa. As long as he doesn't ruin it for his brother, lol, we'll be fine. The 8yo needs to grow out of it on his own time.


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

We take a very metaphorical approach to Santa in my house. DD knows who Santa is as she knows Mickey Mouse and Goldilocks and the Three Bears; Santa holds the same status as any other mythical, fictional person and no one is encouraged to or discouraged from believing in him.

For us Santa is a game we look forward to playing all year. We do wrap presents and read The Night Before Christmas and she may even write a letter to Santa when she's older, who knows? I think that the fun and joy that so many people associate with 'believing' in Santa can exist without a strictly literal interpretation of the tradition.

(And your not the only adult I know with negative memories of 'finding out'...I was just talking to my cousin the other day and she was telling me how angry and upset she was at learning that Santa and the Tooth Fairy weren't real.)


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I'm not about to tell ds that he can't believe in something because I don't.

I believe there is a lot in life that we don't understand as children, or as adults. Some (most? all?) of life is magical. The Spirit of Santa is magical; and our son (at 6.5) has never been indoctrinated (by us) about Santa giving gifts, "being good", North Pole, elves, sleigh, reindeer, etc. But, the videos and TV have done a thorough job of "explaining" it all anyway. I was determined not to lie to our son and create a false image in his mind; but he has that image of the magic of Santa from our culture. We are choosing not to embellish this, nor misrepresent what we believe about Santa, if asked. I agree with asking 'What do you think?', rather than *telling* him a Santa story.

We have many books from the library regarding Christmas around the world, the story of Santa, the history of Santa, and Santa around the world. We have discussed the idea of each of us pretending to be Santa; and our son said 'We can't do that, we don't have the right clothes'.







So, he believes some story of Santa; and we place wrapped and unwrapped gifts out Christmas Eve. We don't do cookies and milk, nor carrots for reindeer, nor track Santa's path on the Weather Channel. (Yet!?) When he asked 'Is this present from you or Santa?', I answered 'From mama and dada'. If I am asked 'Are you Santa?', I believe I will answer 'Santa is the Spirit of giving. We love pretending to be Santa', like I have previously explained we could do. And someday, when he is ready, he too may join in the magic of pretending to be Santa.









But, I do believe in the Spirit of giving and the magic of Santa. I've even told him there is no real man that comes down our chimney into our house. But he insists that Santa DOES come down the chimney~

I think (though I don't know) that if you were to try to convince your daughter that he's real that that would be a lie. If you are participating in her fantasy world then it wouldn't be a lie. Perhaps this can resolve the apparent and imminent (Dec 25 looming) conflict for you.

Pat


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Uh, yeah.......what Pat said.














:

I LOVE Santa! And we do cookies and carrots b/c we all love it and want to play up the fantasy.

When I talk about Santa with the kids I just have the same "gleam in my eye" like I do when I'm teasing them or being silly about something. And we talk aobut how if you believe in something then it is so.

I BELIEVE!


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Oh, and when the kids help me with presents for Daddy, I suggest that we mark some from Santa and some from us. And they like that and get to "play" Santa in that small way--though I think this year it will be more apparant to my 6 yr. old and he'll probably ask about it.

And we donate lots of toys to programs in our community, so they get to "play" Santa in that sense, too. They love picking out toys that they think another child will enjoy!


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

My son is only two but I have started to tell him about Father Christmas. How much he understands is not clear to me but he will one day!









I dont feel like I am lying to him because I am not. I am not telling him about Father Christmas to manipulate him. I am telling him about Father Christmas because childhood is supposed to be magaical....and well...so is all of your life!

I actually like the way the person above it explained it. Children will often fill in their own gaps as many things are 'unknown' to us!....

No one can prove he exsits so no one can prove he doesnt. (I am not saying Father Christmas is 'God'...but it - this situations some may call 'lying' - can be compared if you like in many aspects!)...And so what if I am 23 and still like to think Father Christmas is real! lmao.... Its all about the spirit of Christmas for me!

I will do the same with the Tooth Fairy, Fairies in general...Gnomes...etc etc! lol

Also...going along the theme (and kinda what the person above has said) - I will do the same in most other situations. My son will one day, for example, encounter death. I will tell him what I believe. I will tell him what other people believe. Then I will ask him what he wants to believe and I will respect that. I am doing the same with 'Father Christmas'. (hes only 2 now) but eventually it will be his magical world for him to create. I dont see this as a bad or negative thing!


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## Xoe (Oct 28, 2007)

Santa is just a "real" as Elmo, animals who can talk, and people who can fly in story books. My dd is not yet three, and she's already looking at the tv and saying zebra's can't talk. When the time comes, I will explain to her that Santa falls within the same catagory as many of these other things, if she hasn't figured it out for herself. Thankfully, not every child feels betrayed by learning these characters aren't each, one, real, living individual.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

hmmm...so i guess the question is, why did i react so badly to learning there was no santa?!?!?
















i think i am sold on doing santa with my kids now, after reading all of your posts. i guess i just have to assume my reaction had more to do with me and my family or something than with the actual practice of "doing santa claus."

or maybe it's because my parents didn't really give vague answers, just told me that they _believed_ in santa claus when i guess they could've said they believed in the spirit of santa or something like that. maybe they pushed me to keep believing when i was coming to the natural end of it...


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Yeah, I think there's a difference betw. a matter-of-fact, "Yep. I believe in Santa," and a mischievious, "Hmmmmm! What do YOU think?! I think I believe in him!"


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

I am 38 and I still believe in the magic and wonder of Santa! I cherish all of my childhood memories of when I believed in him literally and when I began to believe more metaphorically. We definitely share the magic of this tradition in our family -- and the tooth fairy, the story of the nativity (we don't take this literally either), the Easter bunny, etc.

When our children are old enough to question these stories, we won't be heavy-handed about insisting that they are "real." But so long as our children want to believe in fairies, unicorns, and Santa, we are right there with them. Part of the magic of childhood, to us.

Also, we don't consider it "lying." Lying is when someone tells a child that their beloved pet went to live on a farm rather than died or that nothing bad will ever happen to her/him. To us, magical traditions aren't lies so long as we respect our children's readiness to believe and to move on and keep the magic alive for younger children. I LOVE Christmas!

ETA: DS recently asked me if machines and cars might really be Transformers from another planet. I didn't tell him yes or no. I asked what he thought and he told me that, since he's pretty sure there are aliens out there (I agree), there might be Transformers on Earth. He clearly wants to embrace this possibility and I did not affirm or deny -- just told him that nobody really knows what sort of other life exists out there in the universe. Humans don't know everything so I think it's perfectly fine for my 5-y-o to posit some of his own theories and try them on for size. Now, if he still believes that our dishwasher is Optimus Prime in hiding when he's 30, that could be problematic! Lol.


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## MrsAprilMay (Jul 7, 2007)

I remember opening presents Christmas morning when I was 5 years old and I recognized my mom's handwriting on the gift tags from Santa. So from that time on, I _knew_ there wasn't a Santa, but I pretended for a couple more years. So I didn't feel betrayed, I felt a little superior.








I've really thought about not doing Santa with DD, but I think it will be more fun to just let her be exposed to Santa via society. I'm not going to go nuts making sure she believes, but it is a fun game. And when she gets old enough to ask, I'll say something like "Santa is as real as you make him by believing in him." But I don't know if she'll get that far, as her 4 year old cousins already know that Santa isn't real and made sure to tell their entire preschool class.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MrsAprilMay* 
I remember opening presents Christmas morning when I was 5 years old and I recognized my mom's handwriting on the gift tags from Santa. So from that time on, I _knew_ there wasn't a Santa, but I pretended for a couple more years. So I didn't feel betrayed, I felt a little superior.









LOL! This happened to me too, but I just pretended Santa had my mom write the tags for him because he was busy. I was determined! LOL


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I think it's important to take your individual childs temprement and personality into consideration when making the decision. I had a similar experience to PPs in realizing on my own that it was parents by recognising the handwriting, and then I got snoopy and found the gift hiding spots


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I loved Santa as a kid, and I loved him more when my dd was little. I do remember her being so bummed the year she figured out it was all a farce. But, when I asked her if she would have preferred not to have been "led on" she said it was so much fun while it lasted.

We went all out on Santa. I had a Santa Key so he could get in the house. We put out reindeer food for the reindeer, and Santa always brought one special (not found in stores) gift for my daughter.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Count me in a one of the betrayed... I never got over the idea that my own parents had lied to me. When you are a little kid, your life seems to revolve around those santa, easter bunny, tooth fairy moments... to find out it was all a sham totally messed up my relationship with my parents. I also became an atheist. If they lied about all that, their god must be hokey, too.

My kids have never had santa. They have the real wonder and amazement of changing seasons, watching the wildlife and volunteering for good causes.


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## Jojo F. (Apr 7, 2007)

At first we really struggled with the whole Santa thing, but in the end we did it. We put out cookies and milk for him and DH actually went out side with bells so DS could hear. The look on his face was priceless

Something kind of cute to add to this discussion-- My cousin who is now 10 was never told about Santa. When she went to school she heard all of the kids talk about him, excited to get presents from him, etc.

She asked her parents about him and they told her he wasn't real.

To make a long story short she began to argue with her parents and told them they were lying to her, that Santa WAS real! She dicided to believe in him on her own.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I don't do Santa as a "real" thing. I tell ds that Santa is fun to pretend (just like Thomas Trains, and Winnie the Pooh). I'm all for doing whatever ds wants to do in relation to Santa- asking "Santa" for gifts, I'm cool with people giving gifts from "Santa", we could bake cookies for Santa...whatever, as long as ds is in on the game, kwim?

I wasn't traumatized by the whole thing as a child. I just can't wrap my head around the whole "make them believe in something that you KNOW is untrue." (as in, guy bringing gifts to kids all around the world). I just...don't get it, I guess. There was no way that it would even have been a consideration for me. I just wouldn't have been able to do it.
I do "get" the idea of not telling kids it's true, but not telling them it's not either. It's just very much not my style, yk? That doesn't mean I harp on it either, though. He's already "in on it" so whatever he believes on his own is fine, but questions will always be answered directly and honestly (unless I can tell he wants something else, I guess).

Dp understands the honesty aspect of my choice, but part of him still wishes that we were doing Santa. He said that there's only one time in life that we believe like that, and that's when we're kids. But my response is that the reason that kids believe like that, is because they naturally believe what adults- especially their parents- tell them. They have no reason to believe that their parents would tell them an untruth. So the reason that we don't believe like that as adults is because we're slightly less gullible. lol.
I have talked to ds that we shouldn't mention to any other kids that Santa isn't real. We'll talk about it more as we get closer to Christmas.

I'm not a big old non-fun, non-magic believing person. I believe in magic, and I believe that it's quite possible that fairies exist. Ds can believe in whatever he chooses (including Santa, or Thomas, etc)- but I'm not going to tell him untruths to get him to believe in something. kwim?

I have family members tell me that they believe that the spirit of Santa is real. To that, I say, fine. Tell ds that the spirit of Santa/Christmas is real- I won't correct it (unless ds directly asks me). That doesn't involve a man bringing gifts. yk?

We visited my great aunt the other day. She mentioned Santa and ds said "If Santa were real." She continued to try to convince him that Santa WAS real. She said that Santa came to visit her, etc etc. lol. Ds thought she was being funny. hehehe


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## 425lisamarie (Mar 4, 2005)

We all love Santa! And ALL know he's pretend but how would it be fun wihtout the fat guy in a red suit?


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## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SublimeBirthGirl* 
I have nothing but positive memories about Santa. It was a magical part of Christmas. When I was old enough to doubt, I asked my mom and she gave me an answer that wasn't a lie, but would allow me to choose to believe longer if I wanted to (which I did!). Something about Santa being real as long as you believed in him, or something like that. I knew, really, that he wasn't, but wasn't ready to let go of the childish idea that I found so magical at Christmas each year. I can't even imagine depriving my kids of Santa. I won't lie, either, but perhaps be intentionally vague like my mom









Same with me. I still believe in the "magic" of Santa...he doesn't have be a real PHYSICAL being to believe in him, in my opinion. As an adult i see "him" as a metaphor to take a step back and focus on what's important, giving, etc.


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

We pretend there is a Santa. But my children will always know he's not real. I dont think its okay to lie to my kids. It would make me sad and I'd feel guilty. That said we'll "play" Santa just like we play we can fly and all the other fun things. Its plenty possible to have a magical wonder filled childhood without making your children think Santa is real.

I think its all about a comfort level.


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## hubris (Mar 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
do any of you not do santa (who otherwise would, religion-wise, etc.) because of the "lying" component of it?

Yup, we don't!

If you search for threads with the word "santa" in the title in the parenting forums, you'll find that there are many parents who feel this way. Some of those parents opt out of the Santa story entirely. Some of them involve the Santa story in their holiday traditions, but in a way that is clearly pretend, with the children actively choosing to engage in fantasy.

Honestly, I don't understand the definition of "lying" as presented by most parents who "do" Santa. Whether or not it's *ok* to lie to a child is a whole other argument, but I really don't understand the logic to the arguments that Santa is real. Yes, the stories are based on amalgamations of real folk stories and at least one real person. Yes, a loving and giving spirit is real. But the version of "Santa" in which most children are led to believe is not limited to those things and is not factual, so how is it true or real?

I also don't grok with the "magic" argument. There are many wonderful ways to celebrate any holiday. To insist that one particular way of celebrating is essential seems a little limited to me.

Just to be clear: what I'm saying is that I do believe that what most parents teach their children about Santa is lying. Now, is it OK to tell that particular kind of lie, engage in that particular kind of deception? THAT is what is up to each parent to decide (and where I wish the focus would be on MDC instead of on whether or not it's lying, and whether or not it's magic).


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

I actually felt way more betrayed by the Catholic doctrine that I swallowed hook, line, and sinker... when I discovered that there were other beliefs, that my parents didn't nearly toe the catholic line as much as they expected us kids to, and that it was very possible that life had little to do with the pope.

As for Santa, it was like a Rite of Passage when his true nature was revealed to me. I felt honored that I was old enough now to be trusted with this secret, and to be a part of creating that myth for children younger than me.


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## Barbee (Nov 27, 2004)

i didn't read all the responses, so forgive me if this is a repeat. we are doing the santa thing because i believe that fantasy is such an important part of childhood. nothing else in my childhood was so magical for me.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

We do Santa, though my very logical dd is pretty skeptical already. I've replied in some vague ways, and responded with a lot of "What do YOU think?"

I really like the idea of Santa because it is unabashed generosity (at least the way we do it: gifts from Santa chez nous are NOT tied to behavior, none of that naughty/nice crap for my kids). I mean, here's a guy you've never even met, who's magical, and works all year long to fly around the world and bring presents to every single child. I like that idea. We also have our Santa gifts unwrapped and set up, and that's the first thing they get. And there's no strings attached to the Santa gifts. They are just there to enjoy, no thanks necessary.

I've read through some other threads about Santa, and some of the moms said they didn't do Santa because THEY wanted the credit for the presents. I personally thought that was a little crazy.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hubris* 
Just to be clear: what I'm saying is that I do believe that what most parents teach their children about Santa is lying. Now, is it OK to tell that particular kind of lie, engage in that particular kind of deception? THAT is what is up to each parent to decide (and where I wish the focus would be on MDC instead of on whether or not it's lying, and whether or not it's magic).

OK, so when my dd comes up to me and says, "Look mommy, I'm having a baby!" and then pulls her stuffed rabbit out from under her shirt and then we spend fifteen minutes talking about what she's going to name it, changing her diaper, etc., is that lying? Should I say, "Honey, I know you're not having a baby. Stop pretending."

I kind of think it's the same, but I'd never heard of anyone feeling betrayed by their parents until I came to MDC.


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## maiat (Dec 15, 2006)

I don't remember being traumatized by learning that Santa wasn't real but I'm not planning to tell my dd there is a Santa. I really believe that it is lying in a big way and that there's something better about knowing that it's the real people who love you who gave you those gifts. There's lots of real magical stuff to have wonder and awe over. I just can't imagine going through the charade, knowing that some day it will end and she will know that I was making it all up. Ditto on the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Great Pumpkin, babies from Storks and Cabbage Patches, etc.


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## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

I think you are right natensarah about the pretend aspect of Santa. I actually do know some people who won't even play a fantasy game of any sort with their child without constantly reminding them that it is "only pretend." I think you risk losing the magic of childhood when this type of limit is put on fantasy. But most parents don't feel a need to constantly tell their child the game is "not real." When I was very young I had an imaginary friend and my parents never said he wasn't real. I as a grew older I never once felt resentful that my parents had lied to me for playing along. I personally feel that reality and truth don't necessarily have to be factual. There is truth in mythology, fairy tales, folk tales and just about all folk lore. They may not be factual, but they are powerful and truthful in the way that they resonate deep inside us. So I do not think sharing the story of santa claus and playing the game without insisting to the child that he is 'only pretend' is the same thing as lying.

I do wonder if some parents can be so over the top with trying to convince their child of Santa's existence that when the facts come out, it really feels like a lie. If your child comes to you asking for the truth and then you insist that he is most definitely "real." Or go out of your way to prove his existence in elaborate ways, I could see feeling betrayed. I don't think telling the story of Santa, labeling the presents, putting out cookies and milk, and writing a wish or visiting Santa in the Mall is anymore than just playing the game or living the fantasy. I think its fun, beautiful, and magical.

Frankly when I found out that Santa wasn't "real" I didn't feel betrayed at all. I think I wished my mother had been slightly less honest. I also decided that even though I knew the "truth" I still wanted the fun of pretending and I went on "believing" for several more years. At first I was sad that I no longer believed, but in a way I can compare it to my first real breakup. I may have brokenhearted that it was over, but I wouldn't trade in my sadness in if it meant losing all those wonderful memories that came before it. In truth the sadness was short lived compared to the happy memories that have and will continue to last a lifetime.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
OK, so when my dd comes up to me and says, "Look mommy, I'm having a baby!" and then pulls her stuffed rabbit out from under her shirt and then we spend fifteen minutes talking about what she's going to name it, changing her diaper, etc., is that lying? Should I say, "Honey, I know you're not having a baby. Stop pretending."

I kind of think it's the same, but I'd never heard of anyone feeling betrayed by their parents until I came to MDC.

I see it as entirely different- in your example, your dd is "in on it." SHE knows the truth (ie, she knows that SHE put a stuffed rabbit in her shirt, etc).
With Santa, (some) parents present it as an actual fact. Something that is undeniably true. Kids don't have a chance at knowing whether it is true or not. They are bystanders, and not part of the "pretend"- they can't be part of the "pretending" if they have no clue that it IS pretend!

With your example, and the one of imaginary friends (ds has one), kids KNOW. It's their creation. Parents are going along with it, not leading it.
A better comparison to the Santa thing might be if a parent decided that dc should believe in imaginary friends, and made one up, and was leaving "proof" that said friend was real (half eaten cookies, toys left out that dc didn't leave out, etc).

(I really hope I'm not offending you. As usual, I'm just pretty much arguing semantics...or something like that)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hubris* 
Honestly, I don't understand the definition of "lying" as presented by most parents who "do" Santa. Whether or not it's *ok* to lie to a child is a whole other argument, .

I agree with that. It is what it is.
I don't think it's wrong to do Santa. I don't think it's harmful, or bad or whatever. (heck, my dp would do it- if he would do it, it HAS to be ok!)
I just...can't and/or won't.

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Aimee** 
We pretend there is a Santa. But my children will always know he's not real. I dont think its okay to lie to my kids. It would make me sad and I'd feel guilty. That said we'll "play" Santa just like we play we can fly and all the other fun things. Its plenty possible to have a magical wonder filled childhood without making your children think Santa is real.

I think its all about a comfort level.

yeah, that.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 

As for Santa, it was like a Rite of Passage when his true nature was revealed to me. I felt honored that I was old enough now to be trusted with this secret, and to be a part of creating that myth for children younger than me.

I felt that way too about creating it for my younger sibs.


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## hubris (Mar 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
OK, so when my dd comes up to me and says, "Look mommy, I'm having a baby!" and then pulls her stuffed rabbit out from under her shirt and then we spend fifteen minutes talking about what she's going to name it, changing her diaper, etc., is that lying? Should I say, "Honey, I know you're not having a baby. Stop pretending."

I kind of think it's the same, but I'd never heard of anyone feeling betrayed by their parents until I came to MDC.

MDC is great for introducing points of view we might never have known about otherwise.







I hope you accept their experiences as valid.

I don't think your example of your DD pretending to be pg is the same as the way most families engage in the Santa myth at all. Most of the families I know "pretend" about Santa from the time the child is born or close to it. The child is told about Santa before they have the ability to understand what's real and what's not. The kids are not choosing to engage in fantasy, to them it's reality. The _adults_ are engaging in pretend play. For many adults, part of the charm of the "magic" of Santa is that their children really and truly do believe in something that the adults know to be untrue. That's different from a child who is choosing to pretend to be pregnant, or any other pretend-play story a child might decide to enact.

I actively encourage my children to engage in pretend play of their choosing. I would never discourage imaginative/fantasy play. Telling a kid that their fantasy play is wrong would indeed be bizarre, IMO. But it's not the same as what we're talking about: simply not indoctrinating a child to believe that a fictitious character is real.

Some families actively engage in Santa play with older (pre-K aged or older?) children. That's also different from teaching a child from infancy/toddlerhood that Santa Claus is a real person who actually comes to their home and leaves presents. That child isn't pretending.


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## firefly mama (Dec 30, 2006)

Count me as another who felt betrayed by my parents. We won't do Santa. We don't really do Christmas anyway. I really dislike the whole holiday. If we even tried to do it, I think my displeasure would show through and make it uncomfortable.


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## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

We don't do santa for 2 reasons. First and foremost, we are Christian and choose the celebrate the holiday revolving around Jesus' birth, not a funny looking guy in a red suit! And second for the very reason you listed. I would not purposely deceive my children.
We will tell the story of the original St. Nicholas, because it really is a very nice story. Plus we have to have some sort of explaination for the guys in red suits we see at the mall!


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefly mama* 
Count me as another who felt betrayed by my parents. We won't do Santa. We don't really do Christmas anyway. I really dislike the whole holiday. If we even tried to do it, I think my displeasure would show through and make it uncomfortable.

whew! thank goodness there're a few of us who felt betrayed, not just me!!!









okay, i'm no longer so sure about doing santa. hmmm...lots to think about here, but luckily i have some time to decide since DD is only 7 months old









i do want to say that i think my parents kind of went to great lengths to maintain the illusion--like my mother wrote me elaborate letters from "the tooth fairy" and "santa claus." and when i finally started thinking there might not be a santa, my dad (as i said) flat out told me he believed in santa claus.

and while i get what people mean by saying, "well, i DO believe in santa claus, because by santa claus i mean the spirit of generosity at the christmas season, etc., etc., etc."...when i asked my dad if he believed in santa, that wasn't what i was asking, and i probably could not have understood that kind of explanation (that santa is a symbol of certain abstract qualities and by pretending about santa we are upholding belief in the qualities).

heck, i'm not sure i really understand now how generosity=fat man in red suit who flies around the world delivering gifts, and i'm 28...









and for the poster who said you also rejected religious beliefs because of the santa claus betrayal, i did, too. i figured if they lied about santa, the tooth fairy, etc., jesus was probably made-up too and i wasn't going to get sandbagged again














:

i came back to my religious beliefs (revised) a bit later, but yeah, i was pretty skeptical for a long time.


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

I really dont care what other people do with their kids, but what does bother me is in every thread about Santa people make it sound like those that dont have horrible non fantasy filled, ruined childhoods. I think thats unfair. If my child came up to me and said "lets pretend there is a santa" I'd be totally down with that. But to continuously make up lies to keep up with how smart kids are is wrong to me. Every question they have is met with another lie.

I also dont agree with how a lot of parents use it for bribery. Only GOOD little boys and girls get presents. What about the poor children? They must be naughty because they dont get many, if any presents.

We were at the festival of trees standing in line. A woman walked over and told the lady behind us that HER children knew this Santa was a fake, and the real one was at the mall. She shouldnt have done that, but about 6 kids burst out crying. That doesnt sound very magical to me. Nor is it when kids come home crying because someone told them at school Santa isnt real.

I encourage fantasy play every single day with my son. Just because you choose to make up an illusion for your children please dont say that those of us that dont are "robbing" our children.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I believe the crux of the debate is who *initiates* and perpetuates the pretending.

Pat


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## tuppence (Feb 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacelovingmama* 
Now, if he still believes that our dishwasher is Optimus Prime in hiding when he's 30, that could be problematic! Lol.

That's teh funny!









I had older sisters so I think I knew Santa was real in the same sense that fairies and brownies and other creatures were real. When my oldest sis came home from 1st grade asking about Santa because some other girl has told the class Santa didn't exist, my mom told her that Santa existed as long as you believe in him. We always reminded her of that as we grew up and she played along making sure Santa came if we were home for Xmas, even when we were all grown up.







Now we make sure she has a stocking when she comes over to our place for Xmas.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

I love Santa, he's the spirit of giving.

My mother had a perfect way of revealing to us (she had 4 girls) each when we were ready that Santa was not real. She made it like she thought you were grown up enough to be trusted with a secret and that you could then help the younger kids in the family have that magic. I loved it when I was told.

However we don't say "Santa is real" we treat him like all the other make believe stuff like unicorns and fairies and dragons. I would never tell my son "Dragons are not real" but I also wouldn't tell him they were. Like others it's a "if you believe in something than it's real to you" kind of thing.

And the "Well what do you think?" part that makes make believe fun.


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## Jojo F. (Apr 7, 2007)

Just to add, my parents did the whole Santa thing with me and to be honest with you, I don't remember the day I found out Santa was not real. It obviously was not traumatic for me in any way.

If YOU have a problem with it, don't do it; if you don't, do it. It's your choice. Unless you know your child well enough that you think they would have a problem with it, ummmm, don't do it.


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## LearningALot (Jul 22, 2007)

I also felt betrayed when I found out there was no Santa, and felt my parents had lied to me. So I'm not so crazy about the guy and would never tell my dd that he is real.

I agree that a child's feelings about it probably depend on who initiates this fantasy. My parents initiated the "Santa" idea. When my grandmother made fun of me for still believing, I was humiliated, because in my mind this was not fantasy. My dd is 2 this year, I do not plan to have the idea of "Santa" as part of our Christmas, although I like the idea of the Spirit of Giving. As she gets older, if she chooses to "believe" I guess I will have to overcome my dislike for the man.


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## crb (Aug 22, 2005)

Quote:

I believe the crux of the debate is who *initiates* and perpetuates the pretending.

Pat
I like this focus! When asked if Santa was really real we read the original stories and talked about how that was a long time ago, we talk about how fun it is to "play Santa". But I noticed, last year and this year, as we move into the Christmas season that dd gets more into "pretending" Santa - I think she knows he isn't real, but she definitely talks about him as if he is real during this time of year!
I don't feel comfortable stopping the discussion to say "You know, Santa isn't real, right?" - it just seems a little harsh. But then, I think because it is part of her pretend, she really hasn't asked me if he is real - more talking about him.
I started out thinking that I wouldn't lie about Santa, but it is a fun story and one that is so part of the culture that it is hard to avoid. I don't try to go out of my way to create an illusion, but I don't go out of my way to redirect every conversation to the "real world" either. We have, in the past, put out milk and cookies, mostly because it was part of my childhood tradition - but I see how that could be me pretending rather than dd, so I might reconsider that this year.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
I believe the crux of the debate is who *initiates* and perpetuates the pretending.

Pat

yeah, I think that's very true.

eta- hehehe I just asked ds if he wanted me to tell him that Santa was real. He said no. I asked if he wanted to pretend that Santa was real, and he said yes.
I guess there's my answer, eh?


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## Julian's Momma (Oct 25, 2006)

I think it would be harder to tell a kid that he wasn't real. We often don't let kids be kids and they already grow up too fast. I think your personal experience of feeling betrayed by your parents is a unique one, and although I do not want to minimize it, I believe that you can change the experience for your DC by the way you handle it.

By the way, can you even prove that he is NOT real???







:


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

I don't do Santa as a "real" thing. I tell ds that Santa is fun to pretend (just like Thomas Trains, and Winnie the Pooh). I'm all for doing whatever ds wants to do in relation to Santa- asking "Santa" for gifts, I'm cool with people giving gifts from "Santa", we could bake cookies for Santa...whatever, as long as ds is in on the game, kwim?
This is kind of what we do, although I am okay with a touch more mystery ("Is he real? Well, what do you think? It's definitely fun to pretend, or maybe he's just a nice way to think about Christmas...") DD is both naturally skeptical and hugely into pretend play. Like, she has 5 imaginary cats, and we as the parents are asked to pretend they're real from time to time, but she also will say something like, "Well, Bessie doesn't need REAL kitty food, of course, since she's pretend." So I think this approach is logical for her.

DH and I had a big fight about Santa when DD was two. I was anti and he was pro. The funny thing is that now I'm much more relaxed about it, and he's much more diligent about not implying that it's real. I think we sort of both convinced each other of the other POV.









Intererestingly, while my parents did the Santa thing, I have no memory whatsoever of believing in him. I knew it was a game.

DD's preschool is somewhat Waldorf-influenced and they talk about "gnomes" sometimes. DD has asked me if these are real. Some part of me wanted to say yes, but I just couldn't, and said it was fun to pretend and imagine that they were. She was fine with that, too.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

We'll likely do Santa as a story, not as "reality", when our son is old enough to understand. As a pretty firm practice, we don't lie, so I can't imagine bending that for something like this.


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## BusyBee (Aug 6, 2004)

We pretend santa, gnomes, the tooth fairy, and the kids believe in them even though I do say, this year papa is going to be the tooth fairy etc... We talked about how it is fun to pretend. But the kids don't believe me, my ds asked me "well, when does the REAL santa claus come?" He also asked me the other day if angels where real. I truthfully told him that some people believe they are and have even said they see them, while other people don't believe angels exist... it's a fine line. What about God? I don't believe, but dh does. It's not so simple.


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## hubris (Mar 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Julian's Momma* 
I think it would be harder to tell a kid that he wasn't real.

Families that don't participate in the Santa Myth usually don't explicitly say "hey kids, other people do this thing but you know what? SANTA ISN'T REAL.

That's not generally how it works. How it *does* usually work is that we simply don't make Santa a big deal. We never tell them that he IS real. There's a difference.

Quote:

We often don't let kids be kids and they already grow up too fast.
I'm sorry, I really don't understand how not convincing a child that Santa is real is forcing anything upon the child or denying anything to the child. It is, instead, allowing the child to exist in its natural state. Kids only believe in Santa if adults lead them to believe. We simply don't lead them that way. This is NOT about adults telling kids not to play pretend, not to use their imagination, or withholding some childhood right.

I can't say it often enough: assuming that Santa is essential to childhood and that non-Santa-dom is a deprivation is really faulty logic. It's great that so many families enjoy their tradition, but to think/say that families with different traditions are making their children grow up too soon or depriving them of fantasy/magic/etc shows a lack of perspective, IMO.


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## Magali (Jun 8, 2007)

Dh and I have been discussing this lately. I have nothing but positive memories about Santa. He was a magical part of xmas. But, we have pretty much decided against doing Santa. Sometimes I worry that maybe we are going to deprive him of some very special times. But I can't see myself telling ds stories and lying to him. We will still talk about Santa, but more as a fun story, rather than a reality. We still do presents, xmas tree and christmas carols.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Julian's Momma* 
We often don't let kids be kids and they already grow up too fast.

I'm with hubris here- I don't get how telling kids an untruth (that a guy comes to everyone's homes and leaves gifts) equates to letting kids be kids. I don't get how telling ds the truth about it means I'm forcing him to grow up before his time.

Quote:

By the way, can you even prove that he is NOT real???







:
I can prove that there isn't a man named Santa that comes and leaves stuff inside my house on Christmas eve. Everything that's been under the tree, I've known who's put it there!

And, I think there's no land at the actual North Pole.

There could be a Santa Claus type spirit, who isn't involved in giving material things to people, who is just involved in sharing holiday cheer. I'd buy that, and I'd be just fine with sharing that with ds. Actually, I might...


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## sugarplum818 (Dec 7, 2007)

We go against the grain in our family and do not do Santa. We feel as if it is lying...period (although, we do not judge those who do Santa...this is our own opinion!!). My 5 year old still likes to pretend Santa every once in awhile though, which is fine. We talk about "when Santa comes" and then we give each other a big wink. It's cute. It's like our little secret. We teach her the true meaning of Christmas (the birth of Jesus). Christmas can still be magical for a child without Santa. My daughter still gets presents and is anticipating them very much...believe me!! And we still sing Christmas songs all day long and decorate our tree...and spend a lot of time together as a family. On top of all of that, we teach our daughter about Saint Nicholas...the real Santa Claus...and we celebrate his life and ministry by serving others as well. For instance, this year we are going to be buying gifts for 10 children that are staying at a local homeless shelter this Christmas...children who would otherwise not be getting any gifts this year. I am, by no means, tooting my own horn by telling you this, but I just wanted to let you all know that there is so much more going on in the world around us other than Santa Claus bringing our kids the latest fashions and technology. I, personally, feel that Christmas has really gotten out-of-hand and I want my children to be more aware of the world and what really matters...just like Saint Nicholas...and Jesus. And, if that doesn't convince you...maybe this will. Today, I was talking with my daughter and she said, "Mommy, why do people do Santa Claus?" and I said, "Well, because it can be fun." And she said (in a very worried and concerned voice), "But, it's not true. Why would Mommys and Daddys lie to their kids?" That was enough proof for me that I am doing the right thing. It was a hard thing to decide to do, because I felt like she would be missing out on something (I always loved the "magic" of Santa), but I truly feel that we are enriching her life in such a way that will last for a lifetime. Hope this helps.


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## sugarplum818 (Dec 7, 2007)

We go against the grain in our family and do not do Santa. We feel as if it is lying...period (although, we do not judge those who do Santa...this is our own opinion!!). My 5 year old still likes to pretend Santa every once in awhile though, which is fine. We talk about "when Santa comes" and then we give each other a big wink. It's cute. It's like our little secret. We teach her the true meaning of Christmas (the birth of Jesus). Christmas can still be magical for a child without Santa. My daughter still gets presents and is anticipating them very much...believe me!! And we still sing Christmas songs all day long and decorate our tree...and spend a lot of time together as a family. On top of all of that, we teach our daughter about Saint Nicholas...the real Santa Claus...and we celebrate his life and ministry by serving others as well. For instance, this year we are going to be buying gifts for 10 children that are staying at a local homeless shelter this Christmas...children who would otherwise not be getting any gifts this year. I am, by no means, tooting my own horn by telling you this, but I just wanted to let you all know that there is so much more going on in the world around us other than Santa Claus bringing our kids the latest fashions and technology. I, personally, feel that Christmas has really gotten out-of-hand and I want my children to be more aware of the world and what really matters...just like Saint Nicholas...and Jesus. And, if that doesn't convince you...maybe this will. Today, I was talking with my daughter and she said, "Mommy, why do people do Santa Claus?" and I said, "Well, because it can be fun." And she said (in a very worried and concerned voice), "But, it's not true. Why would Mommys and Daddys lie to their kids?" That was enough proof for me that I am doing the right thing. It was a hard thing to decide to do, because I felt like she would be missing out on something (I always loved the "magic" of Santa), but I truly feel that we are enriching her life in such a way that will last for a lifetime. Hope this helps.


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

I also felt lied to as a kid about Santa, so decided long before having kids that I wouldn't pretend he was real. Really, I think there are LOTS of reasons not to do Santa, and I could never do it.

That said, my four-year-olds completely believe in the guy. This is despite the fact that we've told them it's just a story people like to tell/a game people like to play. This is despite the neighbor kids telling them, "you know Santa's not real, it's just your parents." This is despite the fact that they've never been given a gift "from Santa," and that we don't even celebrate Christmas.

Their best friends believe in Santa, so they do too. They tell us that we're wrong, that Santa *does* bring them presents, and that we've just been tricked into thinking that we got the presents (we give them presents on the solstice). LOL. What more is there for us to say? We certainly aren't going to play the Santa game, but if they want to believe in him, I don't think there's any way for us to stop them. We'll just have to wait until they're old enough to realize how he's logistically impossible. Dw likes to joke that this is just another way that they're choosing to "disobey" us, since they've been a bit contrary lately. At least I don't have to worry about them "spoiling" it for anybody (not that I was worried about that to begin with), though I do worry about what life will be like in the teen years if they're this susceptible to peer pressure.








:


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

It never fails to amaze me how, every year, there are numerous threads on this topic and, every year, _each one_ of those threads goes to multiple pages!

And incredibly, in all that discussion, a consensus has not yet been reached on this topic ... maybe next year!


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## prettymom (Feb 23, 2007)

I am still undecided. I enjoyed believing in Santa and all of the magical stories that go along with him. I didn't feel betrayed when I found out the truth, but I did feel embarrassed that I had believed in a lie that is so out there. I wanted to deny that I had ever believed.


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## MommytoB (Jan 18, 2006)

I was upset because my mom lied to me twice once santa claus gave me a home made book mark it had my mom signature she was stating it was from Miss claus but the inital were MK with a small j in the middle. I put if off for a bit then I was getting some stuff from the room saw a present written to my brother stating to josh from santa I asked her this was when i was in 5 th grade she told me I'm his helper . So I doubted it and was still pretending for my brother but when my brother asked she told him the truth and tried to apologizing going oh I knew I was just pretending for my bro sake because I know of the things I saw she couldn't remember but thought me as a 8th grader would still believe in him .

So I tell my boy about the story of saint nicholas and how he was a saint to the poor by throwing coins down the chimney the stockings would come from when people would hang their socks on the doorknob. I would say he passed away and so we have people acting like him by giving a smile and their time . I even tell brendan as long as you have family there will always be a santa it will be grandma or me. We be santa to our family,friends and strangers because it's the season for giving

Sometimes they will try to get you to believe in flying reindeer and a santa who lives in north pole. I go the men who be santa live all over the world and you will only get to see the santas at least many places because they want kids to smile

My cousin doesn't even do that because she belives no one should idolize santa who's mythlogical on someone b-day .

At times I get to start to feel not as excited about chrismas as I used to be but I do start to get in a spirit of it for awhile then its over and I was like I was not ready for it to be over all ready


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I believe in story and for me the Santa story is a rite of passage from "told" to "teller" - in a society that has precious few rites of passage that aren't sexual in nature. So I think we're going to enjoy him in a fairly low-key way (as low-key as you can get about it in our society).

I have no issue with families who don't participate, as long as they don't tell their kids (as I have heard one father do) "anyone who believes in that crap is an idiot." Talk about grinchy.









That said I think that some of aspect of "lying" might be from when a child was ready to move into the next stage and a parent who wasn't aware of that kept insisting "no it's true" against the child's better judgment. I think that does come across as a bit more of a direct lie.


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## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I believe in story and for me the Santa story is a rite of passage from "told" to "teller" - in a society that has precious few rites of passage that aren't sexual in nature. So I think we're going to enjoy him in a fairly low-key way (as low-key as you can get about it in our society).

I have no issue with families who don't participate, as long as they don't tell their kids (as I have heard one father do) "anyone who believes in that crap is an idiot." Talk about grinchy.









That said I think that some of aspect of "lying" might be from when a child was ready to move into the next stage and a parent who wasn't aware of that kept insisting "no it's true" against the child's better judgment. I think that does come across as a bit more of a direct lie.

I totally agree with you on the importance of story. I do believe that the story of santa is significant in our culture. We also plan to do Santa in as low key a way as possible.

I think you're right about why some people feel they were lied to and others don't have that feeling. When a child is questioning because they are ready move beyond the story and a parent doesn't respect that and continues to say "He's real" or even to elaborately try to prove his existence then I think children will feel they have been lied to.


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## usandthegirls (Mar 22, 2006)

I could not take the idea of perpetuating a myth to my kids. It honestly feels like I am taking advantage of their innocence and total trust in me. Also, a bit like I am insulting their ability to discern truth. My DD (5.5) wants to pretend there is a Santa, and that is fine. But I have made it clear it is just like reading a story about kids being able to fly or animals talking and living like humans. It's pretend. Santa is not real! She is fine with that and has a great, "magical" Christmas.

I do not want her to look back one day and think "Hmm, my parents spent all that energy lying to me about Santa, Tooth Fairy, easter bunny, etc. What else did they lie to me about"


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## birdie22 (Apr 1, 2005)

Our ds is just 3, so this is probably the last year we'll be able to get away without addressing the issue. Like others, we haven't introduced it, but he just picked it up from....everywhere.

FTR, I was a true believer until 9 or 10, because one year my mom was up with me all Christmas Eve when I had an ear infection, and there were still toys out in the morning. God bless my mom! She was a Santa fanatic. I don't remember be traumatized by Santa, but I think I have an issue with the 'parents pretending' aspect, because at about the same age I found out I was adopted and had never been told. It turned out that all the adults around me had known this essential fact about my life, and had systematically hidden it from me.

In recent years, we have been trying to observe the religious meaning of advent/Christmas, and downplay the lavish gifts, decorations, etc. Call me Scrooge. I just think Rudolph and Frosty are more about consumerism than the spirit of giving.

Additionally, we have recently become very good friends with a family who is Jewish. Their son is the same age as ours, and they don't do Christmas or Santa. If we're making a big deal about santa bringing presents, there will inevitably be some questions about why his friend doesn't get any. It's much simpler if it's about the religious holiday that we celebrate, while they have different ones. But then, what about the overwhelming cultural deluge of "santa's coming to town"? Especially when it's coming from grandparents?

I'll probably just continue to do nothing and be vague as long as possible.


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## mamamelia (Apr 14, 2005)

Quote:

I am, by no means, tooting my own horn by telling you this, but I just wanted to let you all know that there is so much more going on in the world around us other than Santa Claus bringing our kids the latest fashions and technology. I, personally, feel that Christmas has really gotten out-of-hand and I want my children to be more aware of the world and what really matters...just like Saint Nicholas...and Jesus.
i hope you don't think that everyone that does "santa" is perpetuating the entire materialistic orgy that goes on in every 1 in 3 households at christmastime. if you do believe this, you are gravely mistaken.

we do santa. we do one gift and one stocking per child (so two gifts and two stockings in total under our tree). we do not use the "presents for good kids, coals for bad kids" and "he knows when your sleeping, he knows when your awake" antics that some parents do. in our books there is no such thing as a bad kid or a spying santa and dd knows this. we do two gifts and two stockings to be given to poor children. we read about jesus and let it be known that he is the reason that christmas exists to begin with, and when they are older we will also focus more on the real santa which is st nickolas. for now we have kept it simple and said the "guy in the red suit - his name is santa".
almost all of our christmas books are about goodwill and important lessons in giving and being generous (except our 'twas night before christmas book).

my point was, we DO santa - heck we even do the santa photo (i know some mamas out there are gasping







gasp away!)... but it does not mean that we don't also celebrate what christmas is *really* about.
as far as i'm concerned, the whole santa thing just adds more fun to the christmas festivities.

some of my most wonderful childhood memories are from christmas and the whole santa thing. i won't deny my children that, knowing how much pleasure it actually bought me. i am actually THANKFUL that my parents put in the extra effort to make it more magical for me. thanks mum and dad - i'll never forget it!!

proud santa household here.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
We don't do cookies and milk, nor carrots for reindeer, nor track Santa's path on the Weather Channel. (Yet!?)

I've even told him there is no real man that comes down our chimney into our house. But he insists that Santa DOES come down the chimney~

Well, *today* ds told me "We need to leave cookies and milk for Santa".







I said, "A real man does not come down the chimney into our house." He repeated "Well, we need to leave cookies and milk for Santa." I asked him "Then what will happen?" and he said "Then Santa will have more energy for his long journey".

Not sure what to do now.









Oh, and he's come up with the little gem "I have to be good or I won't get any presents from Santa" and "If I am naughty, I won't get any presents."







I blurted out "That is not TRUE! You will get presents for Christmas!" emphatically the first time this came out of his mouth, and then stopped myself when he repeated it. And I just said "Is that what you think?" While screaming inside.









Pat


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## Luckiestgirl (Nov 10, 2004)

We don't do the Santa thing, primarily because it doesn't fit with my definition of "natural family living." And honestly, I feel that NOT indoctrinating them with the Santa story has allowed my children to remain more child-like.

It makes Xmas much simpler, too. I don't have to concoct elaborate stories to explain the different Santas at the mall, why poor children don't get gifts, why Santa won't bring them a toy they want that I think is dangerous, etc.

Last Xmas was absolutely lovely. And I expect this year to be as well.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Oh, and he's come up with the little gem "I have to be good or I won't get any presents from Santa" and "If I am naughty, I won't get any presents."







I blurted out "That is not TRUE! You will get presents for Christmas!" emphatically the first time this came out of his mouth, and then stopped myself when he repeated it. And I just said "Is that what you think?" While screaming inside.









Yep, here, too.

I said, "Hmmm....I don't believe in that part of it--the whole 'naughty kids don't get presents.'"

The whole thing is such a trip!! I love it!


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *monkey's mom* 
Yep, here, too.

I said, "Hmmm....I don't believe in that part of it--the whole 'naughty kids don't get presents.'"

The whole thing is such a trip!! I love it!

I appreciate your joy.







But, I am triggered by this since my sister and I actually were told this repeatedly as children AND received coal and switches in our stockings when I was in first or second grade.







We also received gifts, but the whole story of "being naughty" was a reminder of the switches.

Pat


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Aw, I'm so sorry.

I'm going back in time and giving those little girls dollies, candies, oranges, jacks, and two of the shiniest pennies I can find! Bah to coal and switches!










The gift of breaking that cycle is the best one our kids will get.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Thank you.









Pat


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lexbeach* 
That said, my four-year-olds completely believe in the guy. This is despite the fact that we've told them it's just a story people like to tell/a game people like to play. This is despite the neighbor kids telling them, "you know Santa's not real, it's just your parents." This is despite the fact that they've never been given a gift "from Santa," and that we don't even celebrate Christmas.

This really cracked me up









We introduced the Santa concept but never told dd he was real. WHen she was 4, she asked point-blank (in the middle of the summer







), and I told her the truth--just a fun story. She was satisfied with that.

Now, 2.5 years later, she is BIG into the Santa myth. She knows it isn't real, but for the first time ever she is pretending to believe. It is really important to her this year! Go figure







: She is in on the secret, so I feel really super great about the magic she is enjoying this year. I have no hesitation at all jumping in with her and playing along!

eta....I have no memory of believing (was told Santa is not real by Sunday School teachers when I was 3














, but Christmas and the Santa myth were always very exciting and magical for me. Kids don't have to really believe it is real to enjoy the Santa-effect. YMMV, of course.


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sugarplum818* 
We go against the grain in our family and do not do Santa. We feel as if it is lying...period (although, we do not judge those who do Santa...this is our own opinion!!). My 5 year old still likes to pretend Santa every once in awhile though, which is fine. We talk about "when Santa comes" and then we give each other a big wink. It's cute. It's like our little secret. We teach her the true meaning of Christmas (the birth of Jesus). Christmas can still be magical for a child without Santa. My daughter still gets presents and is anticipating them very much...believe me!! And we still sing Christmas songs all day long and decorate our tree...and spend a lot of time together as a family. On top of all of that, we teach our daughter about Saint Nicholas...the real Santa Claus...and we celebrate his life and ministry by serving others as well. For instance, this year we are going to be buying gifts for 10 children that are staying at a local homeless shelter this Christmas...children who would otherwise not be getting any gifts this year. I am, by no means, tooting my own horn by telling you this, but I just wanted to let you all know that there is so much more going on in the world around us other than Santa Claus bringing our kids the latest fashions and technology. I, personally, feel that Christmas has really gotten out-of-hand and I want my children to be more aware of the world and what really matters...just like Saint Nicholas...and Jesus. And, if that doesn't convince you...maybe this will. Today, I was talking with my daughter and she said, "Mommy, why do people do Santa Claus?" and I said, "Well, because it can be fun." And she said (in a very worried and concerned voice), "But, it's not true. Why would Mommys and Daddys lie to their kids?" That was enough proof for me that I am doing the right thing. It was a hard thing to decide to do, because I felt like she would be missing out on something (I always loved the "magic" of Santa), but I truly feel that we are enriching her life in such a way that will last for a lifetime. Hope this helps.


I feel incredibly sad after reading this post. Christmas can be celebrated with both - it can be done with the true meaning and a bit of whimsy.

I don't need to be convinced that Jesus is what Christmas is about. I don't need to be convinced that by participating in fantasy, we are lying to our children and being malicious. I feel that the magic adds to their lives and the meaning of Christmas lives on no matter how we choose to celebrate it.

Every family makes the decision for themselves on how to celebrate this holiday. For us, one gift comes from Santa, the rest from mom and dad. It's not the biggest or the best, but a token to help with the magic and the spirit of the day.

I am glad that your faith is so strong that you strive to keep the religious aspects first and foremost.
Please respect my decision to incorporate some of the other traditions.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Well, *today* ds told me "We need to leave cookies and milk for Santa".







I said, "A real man does not come down the chimney into our house." He repeated "Well, we need to leave cookies and milk for Santa." I asked him "Then what will happen?" and he said "Then Santa will have more energy for his long journey".

Not sure what to do now.









Oh, and he's come up with the little gem "I have to be good or I won't get any presents from Santa" and "If I am naughty, I won't get any presents."







I blurted out "That is not TRUE! You will get presents for Christmas!" emphatically the first time this came out of his mouth, and then stopped myself when he repeated it. And I just said "Is that what you think?" While screaming inside.









Pat

It sounds like he is imaginative and really wants to indulge in this fantasy. I think you can let him do so while reminding him that how he behaves will not determine how you all celebrate the holiday. Maybe he just wants you to play along, all the while realizing that it is a magical tale rather than a reality?


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Well, *today* ds told me "We need to leave cookies and milk for Santa".







I said, "A real man does not come down the chimney into our house." He repeated "Well, we need to leave cookies and milk for Santa." I asked him "Then what will happen?" and he said "Then Santa will have more energy for his long journey".

Not sure what to do now.









Oh, and he's come up with the little gem "I have to be good or I won't get any presents from Santa" and "If I am naughty, I won't get any presents."







I blurted out "That is not TRUE! You will get presents for Christmas!" emphatically the first time this came out of his mouth, and then stopped myself when he repeated it. And I just said "Is that what you think?" While screaming inside.









Pat

I think my ds wants to pretend. I had mentioned getting his picture taken with Santa, and he asked if he was real. I struggled with that, because he'd already said that he wanted to pretend that Santa was real, but I wanted to tell him the truth if he honestly wanted to know, and I was honest. (turns out, he wanted to know if it was a real person, or a chair that looked like Santa).

Since then, he hasn't asked any questions about Santa, just made statements. So I'm happy that it's working that way- I can go along with him, and not feel like I'm being dishonest (though I don't talk about Santa). I feel like I made it very clear that Santa is just pretend, enough so that HE is directing the game. Which is fine, of course. I wouldn't even dream of correcting him about his imaginary friend, Hanky!

I suppose that for the "naughty/nice" thing I'd say something about that being something that someone made up to get their kids to behave. But I'm blunt like that. lol.


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

So the latest with my four-year-old believers (despite us telling them that Santa is not real) is that they've asked us to pretend that Santa brings them one present each on Christmas by writing "love from Santa" on the card.










I guess there's no harm in pretending so long as we all understand that we're pretending. But it still feels a little weird to me. We don't generally give the kids presents on Christmas, but I'm thinking about getting them each something little "from Santa."









Lex


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