# When do they switch to a forward facing carseat?



## granolalight (Nov 1, 2006)

My DS is 11 months and about 21 pounds and still sits in a rear facing seat. His feet touch the back of the seat, but he's not crammed in there or anything. When am I supposed to go to the next carseat?


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

He's waaaaaaay far from being able to forward face. Most mainstream sources will say 12 months, but he is significantly safer staying rearfacing to the upper weight limit of a convertable carseat (some rearface to 35lbs). Check out the Family Safety forum for more information.

FTR, my 25 month old is still rearfacing and will be for the forseeable future. Even if a baby/toddlers legs look cramped, they should not be turned.


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## mamasthree (Jul 15, 2006)

the aap recommends that infants stay rear-facing to the upper rear-facing limits of their carseat. most go to 30 lbs now. our britax rear faces to 35 lbs.

rearfacing is safest as long as possible...but the US is just now reviewing the research.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

BTW, if your son is still in an infant seat (the kind you can carry from the car), it might be time to switch to a convertable seat, depending upon the height and weight limits listed in your seat's user guide. Some seats are only good up to 20 lbs, and my older two kids outgrew them in height loooong before weight.


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## almadianna (Jul 22, 2006)

ours is staying rear facing as long as her carseat says they can stay that way, for ours its 35 pounds.


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## DoomaYula (Aug 22, 2006)

Til the limit of the seat -- and if your babe is still in an infant bucket, get a convertible. Most will RF to 35lbs.

I turned my older dd FF when she was 12 mos and then I turned her back to RF because it's wayyyyyyyyy safer.


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## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

When he outgrows the seat.

DD is 16mos, 31+ in, 19.5 lbs, and will be rearfacing for a LOOOONG time (she'll probably outgrow height before weight)

It is MUCH MUCH MUCH safer to be rearfacing in almost all situation. Google "internal decapitation"


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## Dabble (Jun 14, 2007)

Agreeing with PP's - when you purchase your next car seat (convertible car seat, meaning it can RF and FF), check out the RF limits of the seat. Current US seats RF to 30, 33 or 35 lbs, and you should keep your little one RF to the limits of the seat. It's much safer.

To get your most money's worth out of the next seat, you should be looking for a seat that harnesses to a total weight past 40 lbs. More and more seats are available on the market today with harnesses designed to hold 50-65 lbs, and even a couple seats that can hold 80 lbs, although one of them is a FF-only seat. Just ask if you need specifics.

Mamasthree - just had to say that your Britax RF's to 33 lbs, not 35. There are no Britax seats that RF past 35 lbs currently, although that is soon to change when they release their new line.


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## askew (Jun 15, 2006)

I will RF until my DS is 33 lbs, which is the limit for our Britax.


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## granolalight (Nov 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *YumaDoula* 
Til the limit of the seat -- and if your babe is still in an infant bucket, get a convertible. Most will RF to 35lbs.

I turned my older dd FF when she was 12 mos and then I turned her back to RF because it's wayyyyyyyyy safer.

This is what I needed to hear. DS still is in the infant carrier seat - of course we never carry him in it anymore. He does seem big for it, which is why I was wondering. Guess it's time to go get a covertible!

Thanks everyone for your input.


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## kdtmom2be (Aug 26, 2006)

My DD is 6 months and 28"+ already, she is also already 19lbs.... what do you do if they reach the limits of the RF convertibles available before they are a year old? I expect that she'll continue to grow lengthwise but will slow down weight-wise when she starts crawling and walking, but she's going to be so cramped in the legs. Even at 28" her feet touch the seat back.


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## almadianna (Jul 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kdtmom2be* 
My DD is 6 months and 28"+ already, she is also already 19lbs.... what do you do if they reach the limits of the RF convertibles available before they are a year old? I expect that she'll continue to grow lengthwise but will slow down weight-wise when she starts crawling and walking, but she's going to be so cramped in the legs. Even at 28" her feet touch the seat back.

their legs being cramped really isnt a problem, well not compared to being in an accident when their bodies are still not ready to take one head on. My daughter is light but very well (she was 29 and a hald inches at months) and we her feet touch and we are not moving her anytime soon. She is 11 months BTW.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

For those wondering, a RFing car seat is outgrown when the child's head is one inch from the top of shell or if they reach the weight limit. DD2 outgrew her bucket seat months ago (she just turned one), and is RFing in a convertible and will be for quite some time.


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## ryleigh'smama (Aug 10, 2005)

Ds will be rear-facing until he hits the weight limit. There are video's on you-tube that show 3-4 year-olds rear facing, they just cross their legs. We turned dd just before she turned 2, she was 31 lbs. Not quite at the limit, but I hadn't done the research that I have now and I am so thankful that we haven't been in an accident. She is 2.75 years now, and 36 lbs. If she wasn't past the weight limit I would turn her back around.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kdtmom2be* 
My DD is 6 months and 28"+ already, she is also already 19lbs.... what do you do if they reach the limits of the RF convertibles available before they are a year old? I expect that she'll continue to grow lengthwise but will slow down weight-wise when she starts crawling and walking, but she's going to be so cramped in the legs. Even at 28" her feet touch the seat back.

It would be really rare for a baby to outgrow a convertable seat before they turned one - really rare. My daughter was ginormous and she didn't out grow her seat until she was 18 months old - she was 30 lbs and I don't know how tall, but she still fit for height even being really tall and long torsoed. Her seat only rear faced to 30 lbs, so we turned her then. The legs are not part of the equation when it comes to outgrowing a rearfacing seat. The baby/toddler will just prop their feet up, put them off to the side, or cross their legs.


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## tankgirl73 (Jun 10, 2007)

FWIW, while we're planning on keeping DD RF as long as possible, we are still looking forward to her turning one year old so that it will at least be "legal" to turn her FF occasionally.

We have her seat in our "family car" and we're unable to take "family trips", because in order to fit her seat (Radian -- narrow but verrrry tall) in RF, the front passenger sit is moved all the way forward.

With both DH and I being Very Tall People, it means it is EXCRUCIATINGLY uncomfortable for either of us to sit there. Thus, we can't go on long car trips with all of us (ie, someone needing to be in the front passenger seat).

I'm sure it's not all that safe for me to be squished up against the front airbag like that either, so it's not ONLY a comfort issue.

So our plan is that once she's a year old, we will turn her seat to FF if/when we go on any family junkets, then turn it back RF otherwise (most of the time it's just me shuttling the kids around). It doesn't have to be all-or-nothing one-or-the-other. The seat is easy enough to install/uninstall/reinstall.


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## angelcat (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kdtmom2be* 
My DD is 6 months and 28"+ already, she is also already 19lbs.... what do you do if they reach the limits of the RF convertibles available before they are a year old? I expect that she'll continue to grow lengthwise but will slow down weight-wise when she starts crawling and walking, but she's going to be so cramped in the legs. Even at 28" her feet touch the seat back.

Rachel was big too, but she fit in her convertible rearfacing til a year. I got her a forward facing carseat just before she was a year, and I wans't planning on using it for awhile, but her convertibel woudln't install properly in the new van. I kept her rearfacing in other vehicles for a bit, but she was too tall (her head was right at the top the last time she ride rf. I shoudln't have let her ride that way even one time , actually) by 14 months. It was a Cosco Touriva ( ithink that's cosco anyhow).


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peony* 
For those wondering, a RFing car seat is outgrown when the child's head is one inch from the top of shell or if they reach the weight limit. DD2 outgrew her bucket seat months ago (she just turned one), and is RFing in a convertible and will be for quite some time.

Britax seats are still technically "entirely within shell" Doesn't have to be 1in.









-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I would never turn a child at a year. Not for a single trip. FAR too dangerous.

Dd is 3yrs old and still RF. Though will be turning ff soon







Close to outgrowing her boulevard rf by weight AND height.

-Angela


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## pantufla (Jun 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *granolalight* 
This is what I needed to hear. DS still is in the infant carrier seat - of course we never carry him in it anymore. He does seem big for it, which is why I was wondering. Guess it's time to go get a covertible!

Thanks everyone for your input.

Sounds like he might be over the height limit of the infant car seat. You'd have to check for your car seat, though. Our Graco infant seat weight limit went up to 20 lbs, but but only up to 26" in height. My DS outgrew it height-wise at 6 months -- he was well under the weight limit.


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## kdtmom2be (Aug 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
It would be really rare for a baby to outgrow a convertable seat before they turned one - really rare. My daughter was ginormous and she didn't out grow her seat until she was 18 months old - she was 30 lbs and I don't know how tall, but she still fit for height even being really tall and long torsoed. Her seat only rear faced to 30 lbs, so we turned her then. *The legs are not part of the equation when it comes to outgrowing a rearfacing seat. The baby/toddler will just prop their feet up, put them off to the side, or cross their legs.*

Thank you, that's the info I was looking for.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
It would be really rare for a baby to outgrow a convertable seat before they turned one - really rare. My daughter was ginormous and she didn't out grow her seat until she was 18 months old - she was 30 lbs and I don't know how tall, but she still fit for height even being really tall and long torsoed. Her seat only rear faced to 30 lbs, so we turned her then. The legs are not part of the equation when it comes to outgrowing a rearfacing seat. The baby/toddler will just prop their feet up, put them off to the side, or cross their legs.


But what do you do when it does? I have a friend with a 30lb 7month old. (He's tall too) Suggestions?


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
But what do you do when it does? I have a friend with a 30lb 7month old. (He's tall too) Suggestions?


Well, the height would probably not be a problem because there are seats that rearface that have high shells. The weight is another issue, though. I've heard Britax is about to come out with a seat that rear faces until 35 lbs, but I don't know much about it. That's something that you should probably ask about on the Family safety board - we have a lot of car seat techs that hang out there.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
But what do you do when it does? I have a friend with a 30lb 7month old. (He's tall too) Suggestions?

The scenera is a cheap seat that RF to 35lbs.

The radian rf to 35.

Then new recaro seats rf to 35.

-Angela


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Moving to family safety


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## Zwillingsmama (Mar 19, 2007)

I can tell you what the recommendations in Germany are.

If the legs start sticking out is not a problem. But make sure the head still has full support. If the head starts sticking out at the top we are no longer allowed to use our infant carrier car seats and have to get the next bigger size (the forward facing one).

My twins outgrew theirs when they where 10 months old. They are very tall and didn't have the full head support any more.

This is coming from a country with VERY strict safety regulations by the way.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
The weight is another issue, though. I've heard Britax is about to come out with a seat that rear faces until 35 lbs, but I don't know much about it.

The Britax Diplomat (fancy version of Roundabout) and Advocate (should be out next month, fancy version of Boulevard) both RF to 35 pounds







. They are pretty spendy, though. Thirty pounds at 7 months is alot, but honestly I highly doubt the child will gain that last 5 pounds before 12 months. Children generally slow down their weight gain when they start crawling & walking, and I have heard of many children who were 30 pounds before a year, and at 3 or 4 are still under 35 pounds. Hopefully he will be one of those kids!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zwillingsmama* 
I can tell you what the recommendations in Germany are.

If the legs start sticking out is not a problem. But make sure the head still has full support. If the head starts sticking out at the top we are no longer allowed to use our infant carrier car seats and have to get the next bigger size (the forward facing one).

My twins outgrew theirs when they where 10 months old. They are very tall and didn't have the full head support any more.

This is coming from a country with VERY strict safety regulations by the way.

Are there no convertible seats in Germany?


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## bechand0128 (Mar 22, 2006)

In Sweden, children rear-face to 4/5 and 50 lbs.

In the US, children have to (by law, in most cases) rear-face until they are 1 yo and 20 lbs, and for optimal safety, SHOULD, per the AAP, Safe Kids, NHTSA and just about every other major organization who researches the issue of carseat safety, rear-face to the limits of their convertible seat, generally between 33-35 lbs.


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## bechand0128 (Mar 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Are there no convertible seats in Germany?

In Europe, there are very few convertible seats, but as far as I've seen, they do exist, just not to the level that they do here.


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

My toddler is a big guy-- he will be 2 in December, is 34-35" (with a 13" torso), 30 lbs. and rear-facing in a Cosco Scenera. He will be too tall for the Scenera when his torso grows another 3/4" so we will buy another convertible that will allow him to continue RFing until at least 33 lbs. before FFing. If we buy a carseat with a 35 lb. RFing limit he'll make it to at least 2.5 rearfacing, 3 if we're lucky.
I would not consider turning a child forward-facing before 2 unless they weighed over 35 lbs. which is pretty rare.


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## MissE (May 12, 2007)

My husband has a coworker whos daughter is two weeks younger than DS (so she is 7 mo) and they already have her forwardfacing...because she likes to feel the wind of the AC...







:. That is sooo sad, what will those people tell their insurance in case of an accident? I don't think they let "She liked the wind of the AC" count. Also, I've heard of parents facing the seats forward because that way it is easier to give cookies to their babes...

DS is 8mo and about 25lbs, he's got long way until we will face his seat forward and he doesn't mind looking out the back window.


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## LizaBear (Feb 1, 2003)

DS is almost 11 months, 27lbs and about 32" long. He'll be rear-facing as long as we possibly can keep him that way.

Right now, he's in a Graco SafeSeat1 which is good until 30lbs, and his head is still more than an inch below the shell.

After that, I'll have to put him in our Regal Ride, as it goes to 35 lbs.

Beyond that, I'm not sure.


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## s_kristina (Aug 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hottmama* 
My toddler is a big guy-- he will be 2 in December, is 34-35" (with a 13" torso), 30 lbs. and rear-facing in a Cosco Scenera. He will be too tall for the Scenera when his torso grows another 3/4" so we will buy another convertible that will allow him to continue RFing until at least 33 lbs. before FFing. If we buy a carseat with a 35 lb. RFing limit he'll make it to at least 2.5 rearfacing, 3 if we're lucky.
I would not consider turning a child forward-facing before 2 unless they weighed over 35 lbs. which is pretty rare.

Rare and upsetting if you realize how much safer they are rf. Not unheard of here though. My ds was hanging out at 33-35 lbs at 22 months and his shoulders ended up over the top of the Scenera harness rf at the same time. Looking at it we probably only have a couple more months before he will be too big for it ff, but he is probably closing in on 40 lbs and will be 2 years old in a couple weeks. He is a very big almost 2 year old.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Thanks for all the responses! And while it's great that there are carseats that go to 35lbs, that's not going to help much in the long term. (He's put on 2lbs in the past month, and wears 24m clothes. 2T fits too.) I suppose my question is, once he's over the weight limit, is it safer for him to be FF or RF?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
Thanks for all the responses! And while it's great that there are carseats that go to 35lbs, that's not going to help much in the long term. (He's put on 2lbs in the past month, and wears 24m clothes. 2T fits too.) I suppose my question is, once he's over the weight limit, is it safer for him to be FF or RF?

I would bet he stays 35 or under by a year. I'd bet big money.










But it's always safer to follow the guidelines of the seat.

-Angela


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## lifescholar (Nov 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *s_kristina* 
Rare and upsetting if you realize how much safer they are rf. Not unheard of here though. My ds was hanging out at 33-35 lbs at 22 months and his shoulders ended up over the top of the Scenera harness rf at the same time. Looking at it we probably only have a couple more months before he will be too big for it ff, but he is probably closing in on 40 lbs and will be 2 years old in a couple weeks. He is a very big almost 2 year old.

Yeah, my son was 35 lbs. at about 20 or 21 months....he's 27 months now, and is just about to hit 40 lbs!!! He's very TALL, too....last time I measured him he was just under 39"...I had to replace his AO and AOE with 2 Evenflo Chase combo seats...just praying he slows down a bit so he makes it to almost 4 before he has to go into a booster!


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## Valian (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
Thanks for all the responses! And while it's great that there are carseats that go to 35lbs, that's not going to help much in the long term. (He's put on 2lbs in the past month, and wears 24m clothes. 2T fits too.) I suppose my question is, once he's over the weight limit, is it safer for him to be FF or RF?

So he's now 32lbs or he's still 30lbs at 7mo?

The *safest* thing to do is leave him rearfacing until he hits the limits of whatever convertible seat your friend can move him to. The *worst* possible choice for you would be somthing like the ComfortSport. A number of really good choices for your situation include seats already mentioned such as the Scenera, Evenflo Triumph Advance, Radian, or a Britax model (not the Roundabout for you). You are correct that your baby might outgrow rearfacing before the *optimal* ages of between 2 and 3 years old, BUT you can still do a whole lot better than turning him around at 1yo.

ETA: Sorry, I had the numbers wrong for the kiddo in question. The short answer for your friend would be that there isn't a great safe option for her kiddo after he outgrows all the seats in question. How was he too tall for the seat?

My Ds was 21lbs at 11mo and is 23lbs at 18mo. He's wearing the same 24mo and 2T clothes this winter that he wore last year too. I'm not kidding.


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## Valian (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifescholar* 
Yeah, my son was 35 lbs. at about 20 or 21 months....he's 27 months now, and is just about to hit 40 lbs!!! He's very TALL, too....last time I measured him he was just under 39"...I had to replace his AO and AOE with 2 Evenflo Chase combo seats...just praying he slows down a bit so he makes it to almost 4 before he has to go into a booster!

Your son might do well in a Safty 1st Biltmore or the Apex (same seat, different names), if you're looking for a budget way to harness up to 65lbs and avoid a booster. You just need headrests of high seat backs in your car. This seat has been on sale for $89-99 at Albeebaby.com


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

There have been several children here at MDC who have been too big to rf by 1 or right at 12 mos. If my child were 1 and that big, I supposed I'd ff them in the best seat I could find and make sure their tether was nice and tight! If they were younger than 1, I don't know. Officially I have to say they should be ffing, but unofficially I'm very torn. We know the straps will hold past the 35# limit (to 40# at least in most seats) so the real problem is the overrotation. I guess I'd put them in a seat that has a rfing tether and brace the seat till at least 12 mos.


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## bechand0128 (Mar 22, 2006)

I'd FF w/ a nice tight top tether. I'd rather not use the seat past the limits.

I'd probably do this if the child were 35 lbs at 12 months too. Just because, while Jennifer is right - the seat *will* hold, however the average parent can't (doesn't know how to) brace and rfing tether on their own, and as a tech, I couldn't help a parent to go beyond the listed weights.

Now, if it were my own chunky monkey? I'd use the seat past the weight limit, braced & tethered. Lord knows, I used to ds1's that way - back in the day when seats only had a 20 lb max RF limit. Ugh.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Some kids will outgrow certain rfing convertible seats by height before a year as well, ut in that case get a bigger seat! My ds outgrew his Triumph by height at 9 months! We bought him a Marathon.

Weight is a bigger issue. But it is true that most kids slow WAY down weight wise the second half of their firs year and on out. Ds was 25 lbs at 6 months, 27 1/2 at a year, and at nearly 3 is just now 33 lbs.


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## lifescholar (Nov 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Valian* 
Your son might do well in a Safty 1st Biltmore or the Apex (same seat, different names), if you're looking for a budget way to harness up to 65lbs and avoid a booster. You just need headrests of high seat backs in your car. This seat has been on sale for $89-99 at Albeebaby.com

Unfortunately, my car does not have high seat backs.

I never heard of the Biltmore, and I looked into the Apex, but I think there was something about it that wouldn't work?? Can't remember...

The Chase has a harness height of 17.8", which seems to be pretty good! The Radian is listed at 18", so I figure for .2 of an inch, I didn't do too badly!


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifescholar* 
Unfortunately, my car does not have high seat backs.

I never heard of the Biltmore, and I looked into the Apex, but I think there was something about it that wouldn't work?? Can't remember...

The Chase has a harness height of 17.8", which seems to be pretty good! The Radian is listed at 18", so I figure for .2 of an inch, I didn't do too badly!

Assuming you have a VERY VERY tall, skinny kid, that's true. But most kids will be able to use the Radian for a lot longer because it goes to 65 lbs. instead of 40. Most kids will be over 40 lbs. way before they have an 18" torso. My long-torsoed, average weight almost 5 yr. old has a 16-17" torso and weighs ~44 lbs. He's too big for the Chase and has been since he passed 40 lbs. but the Radian would last him until around 6.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifescholar* 
Unfortunately, my car does not have high seat backs.

I never heard of the Biltmore, and I looked into the Apex, but I think there was something about it that wouldn't work?? Can't remember...

The Chase has a harness height of 17.8", which seems to be pretty good! The Radian is listed at 18", so I figure for .2 of an inch, I didn't do too badly!

The Biltmore and the Apex are identical seats, just with 2 different names/brands. They are both made by the same company.

You said your DS was right at 40lbs, right? The Chase only harnesses to 40lbs


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Thanks again for all those who've been helping. So, the sum up is even though he's only 71/2 months old, as soon as he's over the weight limit of the seat, (He's in a Sunshine Kids Radian) he should be turned forward facing? The Sunshine Kids is only 30lbs in Canada.


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## almadianna (Jul 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
Thanks again for all those who've been helping. So, the sum up is even though he's only 71/2 months old, as soon as he's over the weight limit of the seat, (He's in a Sunshine Kids Radian) he should be turned forward facing? The Sunshine Kids is only 30lbs in Canada.

for me it would be getting a new one if he is over the weight limit anytime soon.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
Thanks again for all those who've been helping. So, the sum up is even though he's only 71/2 months old, as soon as he's over the weight limit of the seat, (He's in a Sunshine Kids Radian) he should be turned forward facing? The Sunshine Kids is only 30lbs in Canada.

Honestly, in that case I would keep him RF- no question. The radian is rated to 35lbs in the US and it's an IDENTICAL seat.

-Angela


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Thanks! That's what I was confused about. So RF until 35 lbs. And hopefully a miracle will happen and he'll SLOW DOWN with the growing already. (I doubt it, but a little wishing won't hurt.) He was born 11lbs 2oz, and has been growing like a weed ever since.







:

Car seats confuse the heck out of me. I read the other thread about the Radian, so I'm a little less confused now. Look out when my own kid gets big enough to get out of the baby bucket!


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## skaterbabs (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I would never turn a child at a year. Not for a single trip. FAR too dangerous.

Dd is 3yrs old and still RF. Though will be turning ff soon







Close to outgrowing her boulevard rf by weight AND height.

-Angela

Agreed. CHildren under two are four times more likely to be injured in a crash.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Honestly, in that case I would keep him RF- no question. The radian is rated to 35lbs in the US and it's an IDENTICAL seat.

-Angela

The 35 lb Radian is not yet available. I would never suggest using an existing seat to limits not on that seat without written approval from the manufacturer of that seat.

My eldest weighed 30 lbs on his first birthday, but he did significantly slow down in his second year.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skaterbabs* 
The 35 lb Radian is not yet available. I would never suggest using an existing seat to limits not on that seat without written approval from the manufacturer of that seat.

Oops! I thought the radian was 35lbs. A search shows that it's 33lbs. I would use it to 33lbs then. Instead of the Canadian limit of 30lbs.

-Angela


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
Thanks again for all those who've been helping. So, the sum up is even though he's only 71/2 months old, as soon as he's over the weight limit of the seat, (He's in a Sunshine Kids Radian) he should be turned forward facing? The Sunshine Kids is only 30lbs in Canada.

AFAIK, every single seat on the market in Canada only RFs to 30lbs. Marathons, Radians, Regal Rides (Canadian name for the Scenera)... they are all rated to RF to only 30lbs in Canada.

I am so torn on this issue too. People here are recommending that others use a seat past its weight limits RF. I *know* that they are exactly the same seat. But what if? I don't know. It makes me nervous, so I will turn my DS when he hits 30 pounds in his Marathon.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lemurmommies* 
AFAIK, every single seat on the market in Canada only RFs to 30lbs. Marathons, Radians, Regal Rides (Canadian name for the Scenera)... they are all rated to RF to only 30lbs in Canada.

I am so torn on this issue too. People here are recommending that others use a seat past its weight limits RF. I *know* that they are exactly the same seat. But what if? I don't know. It makes me nervous, so I will turn my DS when he hits 30 pounds in his Marathon.

Since they are the same seats and are tested to higher weights- I would feel 100% comfortable using them. Just like I would use a marathon or radian in Canada up to 65lbs if needed instead of stopping at 48lbs. The weight limits are a product of the law, not the safety of the seats.

And in this case- when we're talking about keeping an INFANT rf- I think this is incredibly important.

Just my comfort level.

-Angela


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
And in this case- when we're talking about keeping an INFANT rf- I think this is incredibly important.

Just my comfort level.

-Angela

Oh, I know. And I definitely understand. I have a 48lbs Marathon that I purchased this February. But when the time comes, I won't keep him in it past those 48lbs, since there are 65lbs seats on the market in Canada now. If there weren't, I'd have to do some serious thinking.

I know kids under 2, at LEAST, should be RF. But my son is nearing 26lbs at 11 months. And he may well slow down; however, I don't think that there is any way in heck that he will last to 2 years RFing in his Marathon. Not if I don't bend the rules.

Gah! Why are the Canadian weights different! It's so maddening!


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

If I was in the situation, I would probably keep him rf too, but there is a giant fine and demerit points if you are caught using your seat incorrectly or using an American seat, you will get a huge fine and demerit points.


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## Papooses (Dec 20, 2006)

Rear-Facing Rocks!

Extended RF photo album


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## Kat_shoshin (Feb 16, 2007)

Thepeach80

Quote:

There have been several children here at MDC who have been too big to rf by 1 or right at 12 mos. If my child were 1 and that big, I supposed I'd ff them in the best seat I could find and make sure their tether was nice and tight! If they were younger than 1, I don't know. Officially I have to say they should be ffing, but unofficially I'm very torn. We know the straps will hold past the 35# limit (to 40# at least in most seats) so the real problem is the overrotation. I guess I'd put them in a seat that has a rfing tether and brace the seat till at least 12 mos.
Hi, I am the parent in question - of this highjacked thread.

I have the radian 65 - rated to 48lbs in Canada. 30 lbs RFing.
We have it using latch at the bottom and tethered to the bottom of the driver's side seat from the back of the seat itself.

I also have a FFing evenflo seat for the 2 year old I babysit - he is 32 lbs and the straps only need slight adjustment for my kid. They have almost the same torso size, by kid just has short stubby legs.

DS is 30lbs at 7.5 months old - and gaining.

So, what I want to know is, what is the danger of RFing past the weight limit and what is the danger of FFing too soon?

I would like to know the risks so that I can make a better informed decision. I don't exactly understand the lingo. Honestly, I didn't install the seats myself, DH did so.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Carseats are rated to a certain weight b/c they have to perform to certain standards and sometimes tested at a higher weight it fails so they have to have that weight. W/ a rfing seat, they test rotation towards the front of the car, it can't be more than 70% IIRC. I would have no hesitation at all to use a Canadian Radian to 33#, wouldn't even think about it. I have a Radian that was used till 33# myself (in the US though). Using a rfing seat longer than allowed is a mystery I think as to what it would do. Personally w/ a rfing tether you are eliminating the overrotation backwards (the cocooning) so that is a bonus and b/c of the tall seat it wouldn't be a problem to get it up against the front seat to cut down on the overrotation towards the front. Like I mentioned we KNOW he straps hold till at least 65# so it's not like baby is going to fly out of the seat etc. Officially I have to tell you to ff baby once they hit the weight limit (which I would consider 33# for your seat) and hopefully it takes him a while to hit that, but I'm not sure I could ff a child under 1 now knowing what I know. Hugs!

Children's bones don't START to harden till 12 mos old, so ffing before at least then greatly increases their risk of internal decapitation (snapped neck). Most of use here advocate rfing till at least 2, but we also realize that is not an option for some moms w/ large kids. The best thing after that is to make sure they are in a seat appropriate for them w/ a nice tight tether. The Radian is known for it's low forward movement #s so you've at least got that on your side w/ this seat.


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## Kat_shoshin (Feb 16, 2007)

Thanks for the info. I will leave the seat RFing until 33 at least. I wish I had bought the cosco seat for the kid I babysit. The evenflo doesn't rear face... and it's our second car seat for grandparent's cars... and maybe the babysitter if I end up going back to work. Maybe if I find the box and stuff I can take it back.

Thanks to everyone!


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## skaterbabs (Jul 31, 2005)

The danger in rear facing past the weight limit of the seat is that in a crash the child could ramp out of the seat shell and/or over rotate too far towards the floor.

Bracing the seat will prevent the overrotation problem. Having a minimum of one inch of seat shell above the child's head, along with the harness at or below the shoulders, will prevent the ramping out of the seat.


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## mommamand (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kat_shoshin* 
Thepeach80

I have the radian 65 - rated to 48lbs in Canada. 30 lbs RFing.

Just as an FYI, the Radian is approved to 65 lbs in Canada as of May 2007. Some seats were manufactured before that date and just aren't stickered to 65 lbs. I emailed the company and they said the "new" seats are still the same and the only difference is the sticker itself.









http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/child...07c06/menu.htm

I also have a giant baby (she hit 30 lbs at 9 months old) and we waited and turned her at 12 months. We have been lucky and she has stayed 30 lbs for the past 7 months.


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## ChattyCat (Sep 7, 2004)

Didn't read the PPs, but short answer is when your dc hits the weight limit on your seat to rear face. That usually occurs between 30 and 35 pounds.


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## lmevans (Oct 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *YumaDoula* 
Til the limit of the seat -- and if your babe is still in an infant bucket, get a convertible. Most will RF to 35lbs.

I turned my older dd FF when she was 12 mos and then I turned her back to RF because it's wayyyyyyyyy safer.

Ditto!

I turned my DD forward at 12 mos, before I knew how much safer it was to do extended RF. I didnt learn about it until she was about 3, and I turned her back RF at that time. She's now 3.5 and 33lbs, and will be RF for another pound or so, to the limits of her seat.
My DS is 15 months old and RF, and will be until the limits of his seat also.


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## Maggieluciasmom (Nov 13, 2007)

Just thought I'd chime in, I called Britax and they said you can sit a kid rear-facing for as long as you want (within the weight guidelines) I plan of keeping Lucia rear facing for as long as she'll fit in the seat, it's way safer that way.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maggieluciasmom* 
Just thought I'd chime in, I called Britax and they said you can sit a kid rear-facing for as long as you want (within the weight guidelines) I plan of keeping Lucia rear facing for as long as she'll fit in the seat, it's way safer that way.









That's wrong though, there are height guidelines as well as weight.


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## texanatheart (Sep 10, 2007)

I just wanted to thank all of you for your messages. And thanks to the OP for posing the question. DS will be turning 1 next week, and we've been so excited to face him forward, because we believe he'll be so much happier that way. But now we see how important it is to rf as long as possible. We have the Britax Marathon, so we are good until he is 35 lbs. We'll just have to keep singing to him for all those car trips


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

That's great! But the Marathon RF's to 33 pounds, not 35







:


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

I'm glad to see this thread, and feel some camaraderie with my fellow mamas of big babies, though it's left me just as conflicted as before I started. I thought I'd postpone writing, hoping that my DS will stop gaining weight at the rate he's been piling it on, considering he just hit the 6-month mark today.

But, anyway, he's 30.6 pounds at 6 months, and he's typically been gaining a little under 1 lb a week. I'm sure he'll slow down soon, but it's got me worried about RF in our seat.

We have a Britax Roundabout (we had no idea we'd birth an 11 lb, 13 oz, baby -- never had to use an infant seat!), and the RF weight limit is 33 lbs. I'm willing to buy a different $40 seat that allows us to RF till 35 lbs, but is it worth it if the 2-lb difference only buys us a couple weeks? (Of course, it does if it saves our baby's life, but I have to think somewhat practically....) And is a $40 Scenera better for RF at 34-35 lbs than a Britax Roundabout at the same (over-limit) weights? Does the quality of the seat matter at all?

At any rate, my inclination is to RF at least until 1 year, even if it's past the weight limit of whatever seat we have, just because I KNOW how much better RFing is. Rrr...







:

I wish I didn't have to make this decision. And maybe I won't, if DS suddenly stops growing!

Anyhow, stupid questions of the day: How can I brace and tether our Roundabout or other seat in a 1997 Ford Escort? Does bracing just mean it's squooshed up against our seats? -- because there's no other way for it to be. I think the tethering requires some major modifications, if I'm not mistaken. Is that something I should have a technician help me with now before he reaches the weight limit, so that s/he will still be legally allowed to help me?

I love our big baby, but I'm jealous of all the other mamas who get to have their kids safely RFing until 2 or 3 years old. Sigh.


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## Justmee (Jun 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Honestly, in that case I would keep him RF- no question. The radian is rated to 35lbs in the US and it's an IDENTICAL seat.

-Angela

Just FYI unless they have been changed in the past year, the radians are rated to 33lbs RF. I am 98% positive my manual says RF 33lbs, FF 65lbs, but I can't get up to check now.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alki Mama* 
Anyhow, stupid questions of the day: How can I brace and tether our Roundabout or other seat in a 1997 Ford Escort? Does bracing just mean it's squooshed up against our seats? -- because there's no other way for it to be. I think the tethering requires some major modifications, if I'm not mistaken. Is that something I should have a technician help me with now before he reaches the weight limit, so that s/he will still be legally allowed to help me?

Bracing just meants it's up against the front seats. Most of the time that's a given since convertibles take up so much room! Also, RF tethering does not require any modifications. You use the D-ring that came with the seat, and wrap it around part of the car that's bolted down--i.e. the front seat's track.

I was in line at the store yesterday behind a woman with a 36 pound 8 month old







:. She said she turned him when he hit 20 pounds....at 2.5 months. In an infant seat.














:


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Tethering
http://www.angelfire.com/wa3/isakswings/ratetherrf.html


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

nak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Bracing just meants it's up against the front seats. Most of the time that's a given since convertibles take up so much room! Also, RF tethering does not require any modifications. You use the D-ring that came with the seat, and wrap it around part of the car that's bolted down--i.e. the front seat's track.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
Tethering
http://www.angelfire.com/wa3/isakswings/ratetherrf.html

Yea! Thank you so much for your help! I knew I should have looked here instead of somewhere stupid like my car's owner manual. When I saw the tether on the Roundabout, I looked up in our manual how to use it in our Escort. It said that there was no factory-installed tether anchor, so I would have to order the part from Ford and have it professionally welded in. So I just skipped that whole tethering part. The seat was a nice, free gift -- I shudder to think what installing a tether anchor would have run me.

But now that I know it's possible without the anchor







-- I'm so on it.

I'm still hoping it won't be an issue, but does anyone else have opinions on whether to turn FF or not if over 33-35 lbs but under 1 year? It seems like there's no consensus, or am I wrong about that?

Can I just complain here for a second? I realize our boy is much larger than average, but this isn't about not being able to find clothes that fit (which we can't) -- this is a SAFETY issue. Why don't they make (in the US) car seats that are rated at higher weights RFing?? Over 33-35 lbs under 1 year is unusual (but not as much as maybe manufacturers think, according to people's stories on this thread), but over 33-35 lbs at 2 or 3 years is more within the range of normal. If it's so safe to RF as long as possible, then shouldn't RFing car seats' limits go up to, I don't know, 50 lbs? 65? Why can't my child be safely RFing as long as other people's children?

Ok, end rant.

I've seriously considered just not driving anywhere with DS if it comes to that. But what if he hits 33 lbs at 8 months, and I'm stuck for 4 months without a car?

Clearly I was not done ranting after all.

Thanks for your help, ladies. I'm going to go tether me a Roundabout. Yeehaw!


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Just to ask: Is there any way of importing (to the US) a seat that can RF to a higher weight limit?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alki Mama* 
Just to ask: Is there any way of importing (to the US) a seat that can RF to a higher weight limit?

Not legally.

-Angela


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alki Mama* 
Just to ask: Is there any way of importing (to the US) a seat that can RF to a higher weight limit?

If you know someone in Sweden and are willing to pay probably almost $500 after it's all said and done. If I had a child who absolutely needed to be rfing for that long, I'd do it not really caring if it were 'legal' or not.

You can have a tether anchor installed for free from Ford. We had one installed in our old 98 Escort, it was free and took about 15 mins tops.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
You can have a tether anchor installed for free from Ford. We had one installed in our old 98 Escort, it was free and took about 15 mins tops.

Sweet -- where do you go to have it done? I mean, just a regular mechanic, or a Ford dealership?


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
If you know someone in Sweden and are willing to pay probably almost $500 after it's all said and done. If I had a child who absolutely needed to be rfing for that long, I'd do it not really caring if it were 'legal' or not.

OK, been researching this on car-seat.org as well, and I'm cross-posting this question there, but I'm not registered so don't know if it will show up soon enough -- I'm visiting our ped tomorrow and wanted to talk with her about a possible prescription for a higher weight RF seat.

I'm wondering if anyone here has actually ever imported a Swedish seat? I can't find anyone (or, at least, not in my keyword searches) who has a Swedish seat who didn't physically go to Sweden.

It sounds like to import legally you need a pediatrician's prescription and then to petition the NHTSA and get approval -- anyone done this and had it work out? What should the prescription say, and how do you petition the NHTSA? I know the NHTSA wants medical reasons. Is there some way to word the prescription so that the undeveloped spine/heavy head reason for RF comes across as a medical condition? (Without lying, just making it sound nice & medically necessary, not just: "chubby baby" lol)

I might go ahead and get my doctor to sign a prescription for me while we're there, just in case we decide to go this route, but I want to tell her what to write. (I think she'll be agreeable.)

I realize the illegal importation option is there also, but either way the next questions are:

Does anyone know where/how best to order the seat? Any info on how much customs would cost? I'm thinking of asking the grandmas if they want to pitch in for a safety-related Christmas present!

I tried searching the archives, so forgive me if this is repetitious! I saw suggestions for sites that gave info about Swedish/Norwegian seats, but I was wondering if anyone had actually done the importing and knew what exactly had happened. Thanks so much! I'm already learning so much from all of you -- thanks!


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

The Ford dealership will do it.

Your options are 1) know someone in Sweden to send you a seat or 2) go get one yourself. Not many options b/c you can't just order it online and have them send it to you. I was told by a mom who has one that customs was about $150 w/ shipping on top of like $300 or so for the seat. You still have 5# to go before he'd outgrow any seats here in the US, he probably won't hit that before 12 mos and if he does, I personally would have his thyroid or other things checked out to be on the safe side. Petitioning NHTSA can take a while and I know one mom who tried it on another board and they basically told her to do what she wanted that they didn't care so I'm not sure how serious they even take this. I would probably rather see baby in a rfing Scenera for as long as possible and then move to a Britax Regent over trying to import one w/ his size being the only reason to get one.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Just as an update, DS is now 34.4 lbs at 10 months yesterday (and, no, he doesn't have thyroid or other health issues). We decided not to go with the hassle and expense of trying to import a Swedish seat, even though our doctor said she'd be glad to help with a prescription, because we worried it wouldn't fit in our car after all the trouble.

So we have about 1/2 a pound to go before the weight limit and 2 months before 1 year. He's obviously slowed down his growth a lot from 6 months on, but he's pretty close to the limit. We'll see! I'm so reluctant to turn him FF. Sigh. Everyone's been telling us how lucky we are because their kids would love to be facing front -- but DS couldn't care less.

With such a ginormous kid, after he passes the weight limit for FF and we need a new seat, would you go with the Britax Regent (for higher weight limit) or Britax Boulevard (for side impact)? This would be for a (small back seat!) 1997 Ford Escort. And this is assuming we can get the grands to help with the cost. We were thinking the Boulevard as a convertible would be nice for swapping possibilities for any future baby if DS moves to a booster about the same time (several years down the road).

Anyway, just thought I'd return to the thread in case anyone was curious! I'd still be interested to hear any Swedish import stories, in case huge babies are my lot in life...


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

You might want to consider the Radian 80. It would give you the 80 lb. limit, slightly higher harness slots than the Boulevard, and it's a convertible. Also it has a longer expiration than the Britax seats.
Or, if you have a couple months before you need it, Britax is coming out with a new seat called the Frontier which has SIP, harnesses to 80 lbs. and converts to a booster. Although since it will expire in 6 yrs. you will probably need to buy another booster after that.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Well, if I were in that situation, you can bet your bootie I'd be getting that imported seat. Saftey trumps convenience for me.

Anywhoo, if you are determined to FF him, I'd get a Regent. It will last you the longest. He needs a new seat right away, since I doubt he will fit into that Roundabout by height or weight much longer.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hottmama* 
You might want to consider the Radian 80. ...
Or, if you have a couple months before you need it, Britax is coming out with a new seat called the Frontier which has SIP, harnesses to 80 lbs. and converts to a booster. Although since it will expire in 6 yrs. you will probably need to buy another booster after that.

Thanks so much for the suggestions -- I'll look into both of those. I saw that the Frontier was in the works. I'm definitely going to hold off on getting a new seat till DS is over the FF limit on our Roundabout, which is 40 pounds. I'm hoping DS will take his time getting up to that -- I've heard weight gain slows even more once they become mobile, which he's not yet.

If we do have another baby, our RA will probably be expired or nearly so, so I figured I could switch out the baby into whatever convertible we get next and DS into a different booster. This is if all goes as planned, baby- and weight-wise, but that's my best idea.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Well, if I were in that situation, you can bet your bootie I'd be getting that imported seat. Saftey trumps convenience for me.

Anywhoo, if you are determined to FF him, I'd get a Regent. It will last you the longest. He needs a new seat right away, since I doubt he will fit into that Roundabout by height or weight much longer.

It wasn't just the convenience issue -- it was more of a complete-impossibility issue. No one on this board or the car-seat.org board could give me any real details on how to get a Swedish seat, even down to how to order one in the first place never mind the customs and NHTSA, etc. But it was when I realized the bigger, deeper Swedish seats most likely wouldn't even fit in our car that I realized it really wouldn't work even after all the work, which I was willing to put in if it was a possibility. I still have yet to hear any true-life stories of anyone successfully importing a Swedish seat (not just bringing one back from Sweden), and I've definitely heard no info on whether one would fit in an Escort. The back seats nearly touch the back of the front seats, so it's a very shallow back seat area.

I'm definitely not determined to FF him in a sense that I _want_ to! That's why I asked about the Scenera to give us some breathing space till 35 pounds. I'm hoping he'll last until 1 year RF at least.

Anyway, I'll see how long we can last with what we have. He's not outgrowing the height yet -- he's not as tall as he is wide.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Personally.... If I had a kid that big, that young, I would keep them RF past the weight limit and brace the seat. I would use a seat that tethered RF and could be braced against the seat in front. I would brace it as snuggly as I could and tether it and keep him RF at least a few more months.

I know it goes against the limits... but that's what *I* would do.

-Angela


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

And here's hoping he'll just not grow for awhile! The LO I posted about originally is now down to 26lbs since he got moving. (Very healthy, just BUSY!) So he'll be RF for a long while yet. (And Angela is right yet again.) And my own LO is only 20lbs at 7 mo so I don't have to worry for ages yet.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Personally.... If I had a kid that big, that young, I would keep them RF past the weight limit and brace the seat. I would use a seat that tethered RF and could be braced against the seat in front. I would brace it as snuggly as I could and tether it and keep him RF at least a few more months.

I know it goes against the limits... but that's what *I* would do.

-Angela

Unless she buys a new Britax, the seats that can be tethered rear-facing have 33-pound limits. I think it is very dangerous to advise using a seat more than two pounds past the stated limit.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Sorry, I wasn't insinuating that you WANT to turn your kiddo around FF at 10 months. I encourage everyone to RF to the limits of their seat, which you certainly have. As hard as it is to say, I would advise you to turn your kiddo around FF the instant they hit the RF weight limit of the seat. Make sure it's top tethered, like the PP said.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Sorry, I wasn't insinuating that you WANT to turn your kiddo around FF at 10 months. I encourage everyone to RF to the limits of their seat, which you certainly have. As hard as it is to say, I would advise you to turn your kiddo around FF the instant they hit the RF weight limit of the seat. Make sure it's top tethered, like the PP said.

Yes. Despite being a huge advocate for extended rearfacing, even if it means rearfacing to 3 and 4 years or more, I would never recommend exceeding the stated limits of the seat.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Unless she buys a new Britax, the seats that can be tethered rear-facing have 33-pound limits. I think it is very dangerous to advise using a seat more than two pounds past the stated limit.

While I generally agree (and I definitely agree one shouldn't go around encouraging people to use their seats past their stated limits) I think Angela firmly stated that is what *she* would do. It all comes down to a parental decision. Also, I have heard straight from the horse's mouth (Britax) that the 35-pound limit seats are no different from the 33-pound seats, and that they are all tested with a 35 pound dummy. The 33 pound weight limit is simply a 'cushion' for those parents who have an 'oops, Johnny gained 3 pounds in the past month







' moments. Of course, I don't know how much I trust Britax customer service


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Personally.... If I had a kid that big, that young, I would keep them RF past the weight limit and brace the seat. I would use a seat that tethered RF and could be braced against the seat in front. I would brace it as snuggly as I could and tether it and keep him RF at least a few more months.

I know it goes against the limits... but that's what *I* would do.

-Angela

While I would NEVER reccomend a parent do this, I would have to say I probably would do it as well if getting a Swedish seat was not an option. We know the harness holds past 35# so it's not like he's going to fly out of the seat rfing past the limit or anything like that. I would do it just till 12 mos though.


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

I would caution you to check the bottom harness height on the Regent. I dont remember reading if your son is as tall as he is heavy! My DD has a Regent, she is 4, and I can't imagine my DS in that seat, he's 14 months. It's just huge! I don't know off hand what the minimum height is... Just be sure to check the height minimums on the height weight harnessing seats, I'm not sure how well a one year old would fit in them. Or you could consider a Radian or Maration, you are a parent who might actually get actually use them to their weight limit!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

She said her DS wasn't super tall, so I agree tha the probably won't fit very well. I have a very long-torsoed DD and she didn't fit well until 2 yrs (we just tried her in it for fun--she is still RFing at 33 mos).


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
While I would NEVER reccomend a parent do this, I would have to say I probably would do it as well if getting a Swedish seat was not an option. We know the harness holds past 35# so it's not like he's going to fly out of the seat rfing past the limit or anything like that. I would do it just till 12 mos though.











I would not "suggest" it exactly... and I am not a tech, so I am not bound by the rules they are.

I understand the physics involved in a crash and the risks of rf beyond the tested limits of the seat. That is why I would brace the seat in this situation.

-Angela


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## joensally (Jun 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kdtmom2be* 
My DD is 6 months and 28"+ already, she is also already 19lbs.... what do you do if they reach the limits of the RF convertibles available before they are a year old? I expect that she'll continue to grow lengthwise but will slow down weight-wise when she starts crawling and walking, but she's going to be so cramped in the legs. Even at 28" her feet touch the seat back.

My son was 30lbs at a year, and 30lbs at 2 yo. We kept him rear facing until the RF limit on his seat - he was somewhere between 2.5 and 3. I hope your DD has a similar growth pattern with a huge slowing down!


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

20 lbs at 6 months is no biggie. Most babies slow down their growth after 6 months. Both of my kiddos were 20 lbs at 6 months. My oldest hit 33 lbs at 3 years. My youngest is only 21 lbs at 8 months. So it's not a huge issue. Now if they were 30 lbs at 6 months I would worry.


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

My youngest was 18 lbs. by 4 mos. but only 21 lbs. at 12 mos. At 28 mos. he is 32 lbs. and still rear-facing. He's in the 75th %ile for height, also, and fits just fine rear-facing with his legs propped up (with his body in a V) or with his legs crossed.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Personally.... If I had a kid that big, that young, I would keep them RF past the weight limit and brace the seat. I would use a seat that tethered RF and could be braced against the seat in front. I would brace it as snuggly as I could and tether it and keep him RF at least a few more months.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
As hard as it is to say, I would advise you to turn your kiddo around FF the instant they hit the RF weight limit of the seat. Make sure it's top tethered, like the PP said.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
I would never recommend exceeding the stated limits of the seat.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
While I would NEVER reccomend a parent do this, I would have to say I probably would do it as well if getting a Swedish seat was not an option. We know the harness holds past 35# so it's not like he's going to fly out of the seat rfing past the limit or anything like that. I would do it just till 12 mos though.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
While I generally agree (and I definitely agree one shouldn't go around encouraging people to use their seats past their stated limits) I think Angela firmly stated that is what *she* would do. It all comes down to a parental decision.


Yes, sigh... Whenever I ask this question, I get a pretty big split on whether to turn around early once he's over the weight limit or hold out till 12 months RF. So I agree with all of you that it's pretty much up to DH and me, and here's hoping we make the best decision. After studying the physics involved and listening to everyone's advice, we braced it really well (kind of a given in our car) and figured out how to tether it, and we're hoping for the best. The risks of FF early seemed worse. Thank you for all your honest responses.

I do wish it wasn't necessary to make this choice. I can see, too, that some people might really put safety over convenience and just not drive for several months, or take the bus. From where we live, a 15-minute drive would turn into a 2-and-a-half-hour trip that involves standing outside downtown for an hour and a half, but would that matter to me if by my actions I hurt my baby? Then again, if we all really valued safety over convenience, none of us would ever drive anywhere, ever ever, since we know that cars are potentially dangerous to everyone in them. So I have to weigh the risks and the benefits and come up with a workable, albeit not ideal, solution. And I greatly appreciate everyone's input in helping me do that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Sorry, I wasn't insinuating that you WANT to turn your kiddo around FF at 10 months. I encourage everyone to RF to the limits of their seat, which you certainly have.

No, I'm sorry if I came across as defensive. I am feeling sort of like a bad mother for not being able to do the "right" thing in this situation. And I've gotten a lot of weird comments from strangers about his size and "watching his fat intake" even though he's primarily breastfed (he's still just experimenting with solids). So even though I know this situation is not my fault in whatever sense, I still am sensitive to moments of doubt that I'm choosing correctly.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Also, I have heard straight from the horse's mouth (Britax) that the 35-pound limit seats are no different from the 33-pound seats, and that they are all tested with a 35 pound dummy.

I was wondering this -- thanks for mentioning it. Because I had gone to the Birtax site, and it said 33 _or_ 35 lbs, and nowhere did it mention whether the higher limit was only for seats manufactured after a certain date. I figured so, but it's nice to hear some confirmation that it's more a testing update than a manufacturing upgrade. I won't hold you to it -- I just appreciate your sharing this!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
And here's hoping he'll just not grow for awhile! The LO I posted about originally is now down to 26lbs since he got moving. (Very healthy, just BUSY!) So he'll be RF for a long while yet. (And Angela is right yet again.) And my own LO is only 20lbs at 7 mo so I don't have to worry for ages yet.

I'm glad to hear this! Yeah, I'm hoping once DS gets mobile that he'll stay the same or thereabouts, and we won't have to deal with this skyrocketing growth pattern. Your experience and others confirm that, so thanks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemyavery* 
I would caution you to check the bottom harness height on the Regent. I dont remember reading if your son is as tall as he is heavy! My DD has a Regent, she is 4, and I can't imagine my DS in that seat, he's 14 months. It's just huge! I don't know off hand what the minimum height is... Just be sure to check the height minimums on the height weight harnessing seats, I'm not sure how well a one year old would fit in them. Or you could consider a Radian or Maration, you are a parent who might actually get actually use them to their weight limit!


Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
She said her DS wasn't super tall, so I agree tha the probably won't fit very well. I have a very long-torsoed DD and she didn't fit well until 2 yrs

He's in the 92nd percentile for height (down from the 95th earlier on), so he's tall (30.5") but not crazy tall in the same way that he's crazy heavy (where he's in the 100++++ percentile, literally off some of the charts I found). So that's a good tip to see how he fits in the seats.

I found a store nearby that sells a couple of the ones you all have mentioned, and Babies R Us has one of the Britax models on their site but not the others or other brands. Does anyone know of any other brick-and-mortar stores that would be good to visit to "try on" car seats? Especially less common ones.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joensally* 
My son was 30lbs at a year, and 30lbs at 2 yo. We kept him rear facing until the RF limit on his seat - he was somewhere between 2.5 and 3. I hope your DD has a similar growth pattern with a huge slowing down!

Amen!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
20 lbs at 6 months is no biggie. Most babies slow down their growth after 6 months. Both of my kiddos were 20 lbs at 6 months. My oldest hit 33 lbs at 3 years. My youngest is only 21 lbs at 8 months. So it's not a huge issue. Now if they were 30 lbs at 6 months I would worry.

I think maybe I'm being confused with a PP, which is my fault since I hijacked the thread.







My baby _was_ 30 pounds at 6 months -- well, 31, to be exact.







He did slow down his growth after 6 months, but it was so high to begin with!


----------



## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

In other news, I've found a mama in Sweden over on the car-safety board who's going to help me figure out if a Swedish seat would fit in my car or not. I priced it out at one point, and assuming I could even finagle all the details and not have it confiscated by customs, etc., it would be about $700-850 to get a Britax Two Way Elite/Plus over here, which is a LOT to spend period, and especially if it doesn't even fit! That's the seat + shipping, minus customs fees which I _shouldn't_ have to pay if I have a doctor's prescription saying it's a medical device; if I'm wrong about that or the prescription doesn't fly, it's even more. The other option is to buy plane tickets to Sweden and pick one out in person, but I don't see that being cheaper. Then there's the whole issue of the NHTSA perhaps not authorizing it and taking it away from me with a fine.

http://britax.se/twoway08.htm

I don't mean any offense to people from Scandinavian countries, but I speak German and trying to navigate the Swedish and Norwegian websites is like reading some hilarious amalgam of English, German, and the Swedish chef, all seasoned with a good dose of "what the heck." And, no, I'm not even sure I'm figuring it out right. I guess I should find an actual translator, but I'm having fun for now.

Well, dang, I love the idea of a Swedish seat -- if only I knew it was possible and affordable! It would be lovely to have him protected right now, and then be able to rear face for a long while yet.

*PDF* warning: http://www.noc.nhs.uk/ourservices/do..._seat_info.pdf
This PDF shows what a Two Way Elite looks like in a smallish Ford, so maybe it would fit!! DH & I need our front seats back all the way to fit our tall frames comfortably and safely, so we've been putting DS's seat in the middle, unlike in this picture where it's on the side, but I'm hoping that would still work.

What I haven't been able to find is any assurances from a Swedish or Norwegian shop out there that it would even agree to ship to the US. I'd have to contact them directly and see if I can work something out. The above PDF mentions some UK sources for kids with hip problems, so maybe they would be easier to contact, since I wouldn't feel rude speaking English!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

AdventureDad, you are infiltrating all of my car seat boards







. I am thinking of getting a TW, but is there any way I could get a top slot measurement?


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## alysmommy2004 (Jun 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
AdventureDad, you are infiltrating all of my car seat boards







. I am thinking of getting a TW, but is there any way I could get a top slot measurement?


These are the measurements I got from my friend who just got one yesterday.

23.5-24" back height

13" seat depth (its really deep)

Harness heights: 12", 14.5", 17"

the side wings are 6.5 inches deep.


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

I just gotta say that this board is amazing. Amazing that a mama will go this far to keep her baby safest by still rear facing him, and amazing that a Dad in Sweden is offering to help out! If it were me, I would be getting the seat from Sweden. I honestly had considered doing it myself, even though my kid wasn't a special case like this one. My kid ended up rear facing until about 2.5. Though I gotta say, we also had a car seat tech at a check-up try to convince us to forward face him. He was getting close, but still had 3 lbs to go, and they had never seen an extended rear facer like us. I told him, no way, we weigh him every week, and will turn him at 33 lbs. Thankfully the head tech told him we were right on the money!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Thanks for the measurements! It sounds like I won't be getting one after all!!


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## alysmommy2004 (Jun 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Thanks for the measurements! It sounds like I won't be getting one after all!!

YW! I was very surprised by the measurements, I thought it would have slightly higher top slots.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alysmommy2004* 
YW! I was very surprised by the measurements, I thought it would have slightly higher top slots.

You would certainly think so!


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
I glanced through the post and noticed you might want to get a rear facing seat from Sweden. I'm a car seat safety loving father who has lived half his life in US and now reside in Sweden. I can probably help you out with getting a new Swedish seat. The cost is likely to be far less than $700-850 USD but I can find out for sure in case you're interested.

Wow -- thanks for the offer! Sorry for the slow response. I've been a little out of it. I would definitely be interested in what you could find out regarding price. I'll need to measure out whether it would fit in our car as well. If you had measurements, particularly of how deep these car seats are, I could check if it's feasible. (ETA: By deep, I mean will it fit on our shallow back seat in the middle behind our front seats, which are set all the way back -- DH & I are tall.) It would be wonderful to have an advocate to navigate this!

Thanks so much -- I really appreciate it.







:

The good news is, DS has slowed down his weight gain now that he's finally starting to crawl (almost 11 months), so maybe he will stay at this weight for awhile ore even lose a little. But if you don't mind looking into it, it would be great to have that option, particularly if he keeps growing. I like the idea of extended RFing, for sure.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Oh -- I just saw there's a 6th page!







Ha ha. Well, I'll go try out those measurements from alysmommy2004. Thanks!


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## want2bmoms (Feb 8, 2008)

I'm still trying to talk DP into letting me put all kids in the car with their carseat in "forward facing" position on the van bench... then turning the bench to face out the back window...







they can face the back of the van till they drive!!!


----------



## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *want2bmoms* 
I'm still trying to talk DP into letting me put all kids in the car with their carseat in "forward facing" position on the van bench... then turning the bench to face out the back window...







they can face the back of the van till they drive!!!

I'm not sure you can do this. I don't exactly know why but maybe the techs here can shed some light on this?


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *want2bmoms* 
I'm still trying to talk DP into letting me put all kids in the car with their carseat in "forward facing" position on the van bench... then turning the bench to face out the back window...







they can face the back of the van till they drive!!!

You can't do that. It's expressly forbidden by all CRS manufacturers to put CRS on rear facing vehicle seats.


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## alysmommy2004 (Jun 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alki Mama* 
Oh -- I just saw there's a 6th page!







Ha ha. Well, I'll go try out those measurements from alysmommy2004. Thanks!


You might want to poke around carseat.org. She is a member over there and probably posted pics and info. I'm not over there, so I can't say for sure that she did, but it's something she would do. She posted it on another board we're on together. She also mentioned that Adventure Dad helped her out some.


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## want2bmoms (Feb 8, 2008)

poo. it seamed like such a good idea.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

It does, doesn't it


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Generally speaking, when it comes to carseat installation and use, if you come up with a really great idea that no one has thought of before -- you can't do it. I know. I'm no fun. Carseats are tested under specific circumstances and can only be used in those same circumstances; otherwise, you're basically being the tester and that's not what we want to do with our kids.


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## want2bmoms (Feb 8, 2008)

but why.... I guess my question comes from the idea that there are full size vans that have two FF benches and one RF bench that looks out the rear window... Wouldn't it make sense to put baby on that seat? I mean, the seat is installed by the manufacturer, so it's supposed to be that way, and the carseat will fit on the banch just as well as it would fit on the two nearer the front of the van.... So it just seams like it would work.

I didn't know that it was expressly forbidden though...


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

In those cars the manual says not to do that. And I believe that most carseat manuals say to only install on forward facing seats. I think it's because they are not crash tested rearfacing installed forward facing (or however you would describe it), so if you were to do it you would be using your children as test subjects.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I just double checked my car seat manuals, and they don't say anything about not installing on a backwards facing seat or anything like that.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I just double checked my car seat manuals, and they don't say anything about not installing on a backwards facing seat or anything like that.

Check again. Every manual for every car seat produced in the US has the exact same warning.


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

She's in Canada.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Well then I cannot comment on Canada


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I'm not saying that person is wrong. I don't have one of those cars or vans, so it isn't something I am going to do.


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
In those cars the manual says not to do that. And I believe that most carseat manuals say to only install on forward facing seats. I think it's because they are not crash tested rearfacing installed forward facing (or however you would describe it), so if you were to do it you would be using your children as test subjects.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *ccohenou* 
She's in Canada.

I have a Canadian Marathon, and page 9 of my manual specifically says that it can only be installed in forward facing seats.


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## cancat (Jun 15, 2004)

They should all say that, even in canada.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I just triple checked and it does say only install on a forward facing seat. I was reading it wrong as forward facing crs, not forward facing car seat.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Just to make this thread longer...







DS is 16 months now and is just outgrowing the rf weight limit on his current seat (35 lbs). So his growth _really_ slowed from 7 months on. I thought I'd update for any other parents of big babies who might be worried.

When exactly do you turn your kids ff? Do you wait until they absolutely hit the weight limit, or do you turn a little earlier? (I tried searching for guidelines on this question, and all I can find is a lot of answers of "Don't do it!!!"







)

DS is still 95th percentile for height (33.5"), so I suspect he doesn't have long in this seat even ff before outgrowing the height limit, assuming he doesn't hit the weight limit first.

Now to choose our next seat! I'm torn between the Regent, Frontier, & Radian 80. I've liked each at different points and haven't decided. He's tall and has a long torso, and is obviously a chunk. Any thoughts? 1997 Ford Escort at the moment. There is a store near us that will let us test seats in our car to make sure they fit, so we'll do that. I think I heard the Radian was too skinny for big kids and the Frontier's harness slots too short (also says it's for 2 years old+). Is the Regent a good choice? I'm a little worried about its enormity for air travel, but we're trying to avoid flying, anyway.

I never did get a Swedish seat, obviously. It stopped seeming urgent once we realized how slowly DS was gaining weight. I'm still nervous about turning him ff even now, especially with his big ol' head, but we did get our tether anchor installed, so I guess it's time.







Does anyone think it's worth going through the expense/hassle of getting a Swedish seat at this point, or would you just turn him since he's 16 months?

Cheers, and thanks for all your help!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

I would turn him FF as soon as he is 34.5 lbs at the end of the day, with a full tummy, fully dressed, with shoes.

As far as a new seat, I'd go for a Regent so you can get the maximum use out of it.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Look at the safeguard. I LOVE it.

-Angela


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

There's only so much you can do, if he's outgrown US seats rfing, he needs to be ffing, that's all she can do w/out getting you to send her a seat. The important things are making sure it's installed right and it's top tethered, those will make a huge diference in how they perform in a crash.

When do I go ffing? AJ was 32# I think so we switched to 35# seat which he promptly outgrew the next month (height wise and hit 34#).







I told Evan he could probably go ffing on his 4th birthday (in December). He's about 31# in a 35# seat. He gets to get a new seat when the baby comes anyways and gets to sit ffing then no matter what, that's early Feb at the latest. Ilana is a shrimp like Evan so still has another 18 mos or so I'm guessing before having to ff, she'll be 2 in less than a month. I hope you get it figured out, but at 16 mos I would try and wait as long as possible. We have a Graco Nautilus for our 5.5yo and are very happy w/ it.


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## tankgirl73 (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:

Now to choose our next seat! I'm torn between the Regent, Frontier, & Radian 80. I've liked each at different points and haven't decided.
Caveat emptor, I don't have experience with the Regent or the Frontier to compare. We have a Radian (Radian 65) and really have loved it. It is narrower than most car seats, but I think even hefty kids would fit for a long time. There's still plenty of empty space around DD. You'll get a better idea when you try it out -- love stores that let you test seats!!

We've found it relatively easy to install (not a walk in the park but easier than most seats) since it's very well thought-out in terms of ease-of-use. The folding feature, we don't use it much but when we moved across the country and checked the seat on the plane, it was very handy! It's VERY heavy, because of the steel skeleton. Since most seats are really just plastic (with shock-absorbing foam providing the safety), this was the deal-maker for us. It just seems stronger and safer, and it does have very high safety ratings.

DD is 22mo and 24lbs and we do have her FF (eek)... the seat is sooooo tall that we can't get a safe RF installation in one of our cars. We can in the other car, but during the move we had to use the FF-only car, and lost the attachment needed for the RF installation! We only recently found it again (buried in a box of course). So I'm contemplating switching cars again and putting her back to RF. I know it's safer, but she's just been so happy being able to sit up and play and it's nice being able to see her without needing the extra back seat mirror, etc. Plus the FF installation is a lot easier, and is VERY secure with the tether in place.

I know, I know. I'm pretty sure I'll do it. Hmm... I'd better check the RF height limit, she's already 33"... but it's probably good on the Radian for awhile yet?


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## KnitLady (Jul 6, 2006)

This video has several videos of crash test dummies in rear facing and forward facing seats as they go through a wreck. The difference between the two is astounding.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tankgirl73* 
I know, I know. I'm pretty sure I'll do it. Hmm... I'd better check the RF height limit, she's already 33"... but it's probably good on the Radian for awhile yet?

As long as there is at least 1" of hard shell above her head she is safe height wise rearfacing. My ds wouldn't have outgrown the radian rfing by height until he was nearly 38". He was already too heavy, however.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KnitLady* 
This video has several videos of crash test dummies in rear facing and forward facing seats as they go through a wreck. The difference between the two is astounding.

No, I know, I know! Eep. That's why I've hesitated in turning him.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Look at the safeguard. I LOVE it.

It looks great! Also $$$, but what are you going to do? And thanks to the others for the other recommendations.

Is there a likelihood he'll outgrow these seats before he's old enough for a booster? And then what? Why is the US so slow to adopt higher-weight/height harnessed and/or rf seats?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
I must strongly disagree with your statement about it being "hassle/expensive" getting a Swedish seat. It's more expensive than a regular ff seat but safety is on a totally different level. I still think car seats here are a bargain. I have two kids, the cost for keeping one of them safe in the car for the first 10 years is peanuts in the big picture.

First, infant seat (0-6 months). Graco Snugride or something similar for about $100. Second, Swedish Britax Hi-Way seat for about $400 (6 months-5 years). That's retail price here, your price would be slightly more. Third, Britax Monarch BPB for about $100 (5 years-10 years). Total cost for great car seat safety during 10 years comes to about $600. I think that's very cheap considering all other costs associated with kids.
[...]

Buying a Swedish seat is not a hassle (I'm located in Stockholm, Sweden). Send one email and make one Paypal payment and your seat will be at your door in 5-7 days. I will go to the store and buy your seat, bubble wrap it, and take it to the post office. You will receive all receipts, manuals, etc, I don't make a dime on the seat. It's actually a $20 loss for me due to Paypal fees. But you would be rear facing your son which is important to me. I sent seats to New Zealand and US the other week, to people like you who also were concerend about car seat safety.

The hassle I was referring to was certainly not dealing with you! I appreciate your efforts in promoting safety and helping concerned parents out. I meant with the NHTSA or whatever it's called, which says it's illegal to use imported car seats. I understand I'll need a doctor's prescription to get the seat through customs, and then I'm supposed to petition for permission to use it, but some people suggest just skipping that in case permission's denied. Better to ask forgiveness than permission? Did the people in New Zealand and the US you sent seats to mention customs duties or problems with inspectors?

The expense is real, at least for me. I'm not trying to be difficult -- I have $579 in my bank account and a bill for $800 due in two days. I'm working fast to try to cover it. We're not destitute or anything, but we don't have extra money. I'm assuming the Swedish economy is better than the US one at the moment?







So far, despite copious hints, our parents have not volunteered to help us out with buying a new seat. I guess I'll have to flat out ask them for a loan. And I don't want you to lose money on the transaction, so please let me know what the total cost would be with the fees added on. (PayPal fees annoy me, too...) If we're going to have to spend $$ on a new seat soon anyway, I guess spending $$$$$$ is about the same difference. Ha ha -- that's what got the US economy in trouble in the first place, isn't it?









You know, let me go measure my car's back seat again first -- I forget what I came up with last time -- and compare it to the measurements on this thread. I want to make sure a big ol' honkin' seat will fit. We have the shallowest back seating area imaginable, seriously no leg room unless our front seats are far forward, which is then uncomfortable and unsafe for the front passenger/driver.

Random question, too, for anyone -- we had the tether anchor installed, and they installed it a little off center. We estimated no more than 15 degrees. I can still install a seat in the center, then, right? Isn't 20 degrees the maximum angle, or is that just for certain seats? I couldn't find the info in my manual.

I'll be back once I've ventured outdoors. It's not raining for once!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Its okay if the tether is a bit off center, as long as you are using the designated TA for the seating position you are using.


----------



## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Its okay if the tether is a bit off center, as long as you are using the designated TA for the seating position you are using.

Hmmm...how would I know that? It's in between the center and one side, not centered behind either seat. Do I need to call the Ford people who installed it? I was just thinking it would be safer to keep him in the middle if possible. (Nothing was pre-installed, since it's a 1997 car, so there's only the one anchor now.)


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alki Mama* 
Hmmm...how would I know that? It's in between the center and one side, not centered behind either seat. Do I need to call the Ford people who installed it? I was just thinking it would be safer to keep him in the middle if possible. (Nothing was pre-installed, since it's a 1997 car, so there's only the one anchor now.)

When you had it installed did they specify? I know that my DH installed the TA in my mom's 98 Taurus and it is for the drivers side outboard position but is more towards the center. The TA kit specified to only use it for the drivers side seating position.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KnitLady* 






Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
It's about 5 times safer to keep your child RF at 16 months compared to FF.

Is that comparing RF to tethered or untethered FF? In the videos from you and KnitLady, it looked untethered, but I wasn't sure because of what I think was the lap belt that I was seeing. I heard tethering reduces forward excursion by something like 6 inches?

Oh, and do you know what height DS would end up using the seat till? He's tall and has a long torso. He's 33.5"/85 cm now at 16 m, and his seat-to-shoulder height is about 12"/30.5 cm.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
When you had it installed did they specify? I know that my DH installed the TA in my mom's 98 Taurus and it is for the drivers side outboard position but is more towards the center. The TA kit specified to only use it for the drivers side seating position.

Yeah, I'm thinking it's for the side, then. Bummer.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alki Mama* 
Is that comparing RF to tethered or untethered FF? In the videos from you and KnitLady, it looked untethered, but I wasn't sure because of what I think was the lap belt that I was seeing. I heard tethering reduces forward excursion by something like 6 inches?

Tethering does reduce head excursion. In this case, I outboard tethered is safer than center untethered.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Tethering does reduce head excursion. In this case, I outboard tethered is safer than center untethered.

Do you know what the relative safety is of tethered FF vs. RF? I can look it up if you don't know off the top of your head! I'm just lazy.









I realized, too, that having to use the outboard position will mean less space for the seat. Part of DS's seat now is in between our front seats. But I guess the Swedish seats are really upright, huh? Are they comfortable to sleep in?


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alki Mama* 
Do you know what the relative safety is of tethered FF vs. RF? I can look it up if you don't know off the top of your head! I'm just lazy.









I realized, too, that having to use the outboard position will mean less space for the seat. Part of DS's seat now is in between our front seats. But I guess the Swedish seats are really upright, huh? Are they comfortable to sleep in?

RF is always safer. The statistics read that a child is five times more likely to be injured in a crash while forward facing than while rear facing. A forward facing seat is very safe. A tethered forward facing seat is even safeR. A rear facing seat is the safEST.

ETA: I don't think the Swedish seats are any more upright than our (US) convertibles. After a child has good head control, the seat can be installed more upright. The range is 30-45* from vertical, and as far as I know that's pretty universal.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

All right, measurements of our backseat:

19.5 inches/49.5 cm seat depth
26 inches/66 cm between back of backseat and back of front seat -- that's the space the carseat would need to fit in (just found out airlines have 31 inch seat pitch -- I _knew_ our backseat was uncomfortable!)
29 inches/73.7 cm height from back seat to front seat head rest -- just mentioning that in case these carseats are enormously tall

Do you think a Swedish seat would fit?

You use the seat till ~5 years old? But most American kids can use their American seats RF till 3 or so, whereas my guy is outgrowing his at 16 months. So is he likely to outgrow even a bigger seat by 2 or 3 then?

Do the Swedish RF seats need to have a tether to the floor? I don't have any floor tether anchors, and we looked all over and couldn't find a suitable alternative anchor point (seat supports, etc.). If anyone knows of one, let me know. They all felt smooth and of one piece -- not like a table leg but more like a horizontal metal L-shaped slat. There was nowhere to hook or loop the tether, not even a convenient hole in the metal piece.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

The Swedish seats have a 55 lb RF limit, so you'll be good for awhile









Also, the seats do tether RF but do not require designated RF tether points. What car do you have? Is it a Taurus? Try flipping the front seat forward and sliding it out of the way. You should be able to find something on the seat track to tether to.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
The Swedish seats have a 55 lb RF limit, so you'll be good for awhile









Oh, I wasn't worried about the weight limit.







I was thinking more of height and harness slots. I heard 17" (per this thread) vs. 20" for the Regent. That's a significant difference. But, then, in another thread AdventureDad said his 4-year-old at 110 cm/43.3" had just outgrown his RF seat and gone into a booster. If my guy stayed in the same percentile for height, he'd be about the same at 4 years. So, 4 years old sounds good to me. But is that really true, with 17" highest harness slot? AdventureDad, do you maybe have some measurements around for the harness slots to confirm that?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Also, the seats do tether RF but do not require designated RF tether points. What car do you have? Is it a Taurus? Try flipping the front seat forward and sliding it out of the way. You should be able to find something on the seat track to tether to.

It's an Escort, which is smaller than a Taurus. I'll try flipping the seat forward, though, and have another look -- thanks.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Well the harness slots don't matter since they will be below the shoulder for RF anyway. You do have to consider the shell height, but I believe they are tall enough to see most kids to ~4 RFing. I'm sure AD can shed some more light on the subject.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Well the harness slots don't matter since they will be below the shoulder for RF anyway. You do have to consider the shell height, but I believe they are tall enough to see most kids to ~4 RFing.

That's true -- I forgot it would be different harness rules. I'm trying to keep too many numbers straight! I've heard 24" height total.

I think I've found a lower tether anchor option. Thanks for the tip.

Now, at 4 years old, say, when DS outgrows the Swedish seat, he wouldn't be ready for a booster, would he?

Just to play devil's advocate, if I got, eg, a Regent he could theoretically use it up to ~53"/135 cm, which might be 8 years old if I'm forecasting based on percentiles correctly. I realize that ideally I'd buy both seats and switch him from the Swedish seat to the Regent at 4. But if I could buy only one, is it better to go with a Regent or similar and keep him harnessed longer, or is it better to have him RF till 4 and then switch to a booster?

Sigh...speculating on your child's safety kinda stinks.

One other idea, and this is what I can tell DH to justify the tremendous expense (ha ha), is that our next kid could use the RF seat when DS outgrows it and then we can buy the Regent or similar for him, then use it for the second kid if everything's not expired by then. We were thinking about 4 years apart (if we have another), so it might work. No, wait, they only last 6 years, don't they? Shoot. So the next kid would get the RF one for only 3 years and then the Regent for 3. Well, whatever.

All right, more thinking to do.

Anyone know about air travel with a Swedish seat?? Our families live across the country. If I'm buying a RF Swedish seat + a travel seat + a Regent/similar + a booster ... see, that's a lot of money for me. And that's assuming I don't get found out by the NHTSA and fined for using an illegal seat!


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alki Mama* 
One other idea, and this is what I can tell DH to justify the tremendous expense (ha ha), is that our next kid could use the RF seat when DS outgrows it and then we can buy the Regent or similar for him, then use it for the second kid if everything's not expired by then.

All right, I crunched some numbers. Someone check my math & reasoning.

Here are the scenarios, based on the highly theoretical idea of having a second child when #1 is 4 years old. That's our "plan," but we know from our work in getting the first one that plans don't always work. That said, I had to pick some sort of numbers to work with, so I went with 4 years apart.

Further, I had to guess on sizes and ages for how long each seat would last each child, and obviously I might not have guessed correctly, and I don't know all the averages (as in, what age a seat is outgrown typically) for the seats involved. I was doing this while we were driving somewhere, in the dark, just to try to get something on paper. (And, it fell under the car in the rain while I was getting DS out of his seat -- but I rescued it!)

Thirdly, I have no idea how big the theoretical second child will be. I'm supposing not a giant like DS, because that was presumably an anomaly, but I would assume above average height and weight because DH & I are (say, 90-95th percentile for both).

Finally, I'm approximating costs, just to have numbers to use. I'm guessing $600 for the Swedish seat with shipping (might be more or less) and $100 for a booster, because I have no idea how much boosters cost. The booster cost doesn't matter for my purposes, though.

OK, caveats taken care of, here are the two scenarios:

*Getting a Swedish seat*

DS#1:
Swedish seat from 1 year old - 4 yrs -- $600
Regent or similar high-limit FF seat from 4 yrs - 7 yrs -- $300
Booster from 7 yrs+ -- $100

DC#2:
Same Swedish seat from 0 - 3 yrs (till it expires at 6 years)
Same Regent or similar from 3 - 6 yrs (till it expires)
Same or second booster from 6 yrs+ -- $100 possibly

*TOTAL = $1,000 (1 booster) or $1,100 (2 boosters)*

(Again, what the boosters actually cost is irrelevant, since I'll use the same figure in both scenarios.)

*NOT getting a Swedish seat*

DS#1:
Current seat FF till ~2 years old (till ht or wt limit reached)
Regent or similar from 2 yrs - 8 yrs -- $300
Possible booster from 8 yrs+ -- $100

DC#2:
RF in convertible with 35-lb RF limit & higher FF limit from 0 - 2 yrs (or whenever 35 lbs/ht limit is met) -- $300
FF in same seat from 2 yrs - 6 yrs (or whenever limit met or seat expires)
If too young for booster, Regent or similar till 8 yrs old -- possible $300
If old enough, booster from 6 yrs+ -- $100

*TOTAL = $700 (1 booster for DC#2 only & no extra Regent) or $800 (no extra Regent & two boosters) or $1,000 (two Regents & one booster) or $1,100 (two Regents & two boosters)*

Things I've determined from this exercise: It's not much more expensive to buy a Swedish seat, and possibly the same price. A lot depends on the timing and size of the kids involved. If we didn't have a second kid, obviously there's no seat sharing. If we have the second kid earlier or later, it really messes up the figures. And if we have another giant later than 4 years apart, we might need a second Swedish seat!

Another point is that the Swedish seat model puts the cost upfront, and the other way spreads it out over more years. We're poor now, but I've no idea if we might be just as poor in the future, particularly if we have a second kid.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alki Mama* 
Anyone know about air travel with a Swedish seat??

I'm going to assume US air travel with a Swedish seat is out, but if anyone knows differently, let me know. That said, depending on what seat we bought that wasn't a Swedish one (Regent, e.g.), we might have to buy a separate travel seat anyway. I guess that's a research for another day.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alki Mama* 
And that's assuming I don't get found out by the NHTSA and fined for using an illegal seat!









Does anyone have a thought as to the morality of using an illegal seat? Does no one have a problem with it?

And what do you think my risks are for being caught? I was thinking I could drape a light blanket over the bar part that makes the seat look the most different from a US seat. But do you think we'd get stopped at some point just for having a giant kid facing backwards? Even if just as a safety check to tell us no seats in the US allow a child to sit that way at that age?


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alki Mama* 
Does anyone have a thought as to the morality of using an illegal seat? Does no one have a problem with it?

And what do you think my risks are for being caught? I was thinking I could drape a light blanket over the bar part that makes the seat look the most different from a US seat. But do you think we'd get stopped at some point just for having a giant kid facing backwards? Even if just as a safety check to tell us no seats in the US allow a child to sit that way at that age?

I wouldn't have a problem with using an "illegal" seat. You can always have a doctor and a CPST write letters explaining WHY you have the seat, and carry those. Honestly, though, the chances of you being pulled over and ticketed for using the seats are very very slim.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
You can always have a doctor and a CPST write letters explaining WHY you have the seat, and carry those.

The doctor I've got, but I'd be afraid to ask a local CPST in case s/he disagreed with my decision and reported me. Would someone online here be willing to give me a letter like that to print out?


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## ma_Donna (Jan 11, 2003)

DS1 was RF in the Britax Wizard until he was a little over 3 and he hit the RF limit (34#IIRC). We turned him FF. A couple months later his brother hit the limit for the baby bucket so we got DS1 the Regent and put DS2 RF in the Wizard.

DS1 (5) has tons of space left in the Regent when many of his friends and cousins are in booster seats. DS2 (2 & 28#) is still RF in the Wizard.

Not only are we keeping our kids RF as long as possible, we will keep them in a 5-pt harness as long as possible. Don't forget to keep track of the weight limits on your car's LATCH components.


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## azmomtoone (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alki Mama* 
And what do you think my risks are for being caught? I was thinking I could drape a light blanket over the bar part that makes the seat look the most different from a US seat. But do you think we'd get stopped at some point just for having a giant kid facing backwards? Even if just as a safety check to tell us no seats in the US allow a child to sit that way at that age?

I think the risk of being caught isn't so much the concern, as that an insurance company might not pay for medical care in the event of a crash w/ it because it's illegal.... if it were on rx from your dr I'd think they'd have to (I'm certainly no expert, just speculating) ; hard to weigh pros vs cons in this situation, certainly better to have the kid as safe as possible - which is rf for all passengers - but at the same time, if there is an accident and the insurance decides not to cover (which we all know they're great at finding ways NOT to pay around here) you possibly have an injured kid w/ no medical care.......


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Hi, I've removed a number of posts that were in violation of the User Agreement by promoting a service, business or website or referenced or quoted posts that did. Please do not post in this manner again. Please PM me or AdinaL with any questions. Thanks!

Quote:

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Do not post to advertise your product or business. Acceptable advertising is available on the boards. Information may be obtained by contacting [email protected] for banner ads. Advertising in signatures and in discussion board threads is strictly prohibited with the exception of those members who have paid the fee for the Signature Advertising Package. MDC sales and fundraising information may be posted by administrators, moderators, and designated members. Members may not use their business or product names as a username._


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

I'm pretty sure insurance not paying would not be an issue. If car insurance didn't cover the results of negligent or illegal behavior, it would be pretty worthless.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ccohenou* 
I'm pretty sure insurance not paying would not be an issue. If car insurance didn't cover the results of negligent or illegal behavior, it would be pretty worthless.

I think the issue might lie in if YOU were to hit someone. Honestly though, we've been in 2 crashes now w/ seats in our car (neither our fault) and not once has anyone asked to see our seats. I know some places ask to have your seat when you get your check for new ones etc. Last time, the guy just looked up our seats online, so the problem would be you'd have to buy a US replacement seat for it that would be comparable, which would be considerably less than what you paid for a Swedish seat.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alki Mama* 
Is the Regent a good choice? I'm a little worried about its enormity for air travel, but we're trying to avoid flying, anyway.

Just a point of order: the Regent is not approved for air travel. It doesn't fit in an airplane seat, so it lacks the FAA sticker. You would definitely need another seat for air travel if you chose the Regent.


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
Just a point of order: the Regent is not approved for air travel. It doesn't fit in an airplane seat, so it lacks the FAA sticker. You would definitely need another seat for air travel if you chose the Regent.

Oh, yeah, now I remember that was one of the things I didn't like about it. So many features to consider! Is the SafeGuard seat FAA approved? -- Never mind, I just found out that it is. (Not the folding one, but the regular seat.) But it's expensive, too. Hmmm...

Well, I'm leaning toward never flying again anyway...sorry, family on the East Coast!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Yep, as you found, the safeguard is FAA approved.

Don't remember if I put it in this thread- a couple of places have them on sale for $259.99

-Angela


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## RedPony (May 24, 2005)

Bumping this thread and asking for help...

I'm trying to make the best possible decison for my daughter, who will be 2 1/2 next month. She's currently rearfacing in her convertible which goes to 33 lbs and 36 inches. DD is 35 inches tall but only weighs 23/24 lbs. We have two seats (the same), and two cars. The Tahoe is not a problem, but in my car, a Ford Focus, DD complains of being "too big" for her seat, "uncomfortable", and her legs and arms hurt...

I don't know what to do! I'm afraid if I turn her around in my car, she'll want to be ffing in the Tahoe, too. FWIW, I can see when she's sitting in her seat in my Focus that she truly does look uncomfortable. Somehow we never got much recline on that seat at all, (car too small), and her little chest appears to be pitched over her knees with her head cranked forward. Ugh. The seat already has one noodle under it (the fat kind installed by a tech). Is it possible to SAFELY prop the seat up so she has more room for her head, neck, and chest, not to mention legs??

Is my only option to buy a bigger seat (and figure out what would fit in my car) only to have to flip that one when DD hits the height limit?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Hmm... what seat? I would find a way to keep her rf at this point- she's so small still.

-Angela


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## Alki Mama (Jul 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Don't remember if I put it in this thread- a couple of places have them on sale for $259.99

I saw that in your review of it somewhere -- sounds like a great seat & a great deal! Thanks.


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## RedPony (May 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Hmm... what seat? I would find a way to keep her rf at this point- she's so small still.

-Angela

Eddie Bauer convertible. And the weight limit rearfacing is 35 lbs, not 33 (I remembered wrong).


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

I've kept all my kids rear facing till the height limit is reached on their seats. For Janelle this was at 3 1/2, for Kincaid this was at 18 months... I can't keep them rearfacing till the weight limit, cause at 6 years old and 45" Janelle is just now 35lbs. Travis is shorter than she (and slightly lighter) was, and he is in a boulevard where as she had a roundabout, she he may be rearfacing till 5 or so.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

A baby outgrowing a Boulevard at 18 months is extremely rare.


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