# son wears a dress....



## Alexis (Apr 28, 2002)

My 2 yr old ds seems to have a natural love for all the things intended to be loved by little girls- princesses, fancy dress up girl shoes, dresses, and prefers female images in movies, stories and magazines.

I've been trying to just go with it, but I am starting to feel like I'd like to open up his interests. He used to have broader choices in play and games and subjects to draw. Now it's all princesses and fancy things and playing going to a ball.

Has anyone else or is anyone else dealing with this? I wouldn't feel comfortable with his wearing a dress which he likes to dress up in out of the house but I don't know what to say. I hate to enforce gender roles on one so young and open but I feel like he is leaning so heavily that he isn't appreciating his own being a boy.

Please help!


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## mamabeard (Sep 27, 2002)

my son also wears his skirt on occasion... i think it's sweet, but the few times he's wanted to wear it out of the house i've managed to convince him that pants would be more practical..
not sure what i will do if he has this particular fancy later on in life..

maybe your son is gay? just a thot.. (and no weirdness intended..)


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## mplsmom (May 14, 2002)

Alexis, Keep going with it.
When children are young, they like to explore the world around them. One of the areas that they explore are gender rules/roles. Tell him that dress up clothes are for playing with inside, and enforce that rule for all of his dress up clothes.
I am a Lesbian and I have been one for all of my life. Your son may be gay, or he may be straight, or somewhere inbetween. My parents had a difficult time accepting me for who I was, and we very nearly lost contact. Please love your son for who he is, and love him always.
There is a great orginizaion for the families and friend of gays and lesbians. http://www.pflag.org/

Kirsten


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## Elphaba (Nov 19, 2001)

maybe it's that he has seen girls getting preferential treatment and is just trying to get some special attention.
or it could just be that "girly" dress up clothes are way more interesting and attractive than "boyish" ones.
maybe you could find some books that talk about how special and wonderful boys are, i know there is a book available called "great books for boys" and there are several others along the same lines i just can't recall the exact titles right now.


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## Mothernature (Jun 10, 2002)

My lifelong best friend has a cousin who was like this as a child. He has an older sister and a younger brother. His sister is not a prissy girl and his brother is very athletic. We always said that if he grew up to be homosexual we would know without a doubt that it is genetic. What happened in reality though was that he lost interest in girl stuff about the time he started school. You would never know he was Snow White for his 4th Halloween now.


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## Starfire (Jun 26, 2002)

My son is six years old, and we play dress up, he wears my shoes, he puts make up on me, and wants me to put it on him, We go all out when we play dress-up.

Now what i do that is different because I do not want him to just identify dresses with home making, is then after being all dressed up we do go outside and "fix" the car, shovel the walk, take the garbage out. Don't get me wrong we cook together too , when all dressed up, but I do not want him to think that is what wearing a dress is.

He has two friends that are boys, who also dress up when they get together. Also he is the only boy in a family of 13 (when we are all together).

I think it is so good for them to learn young that they can be what ever/who ever they want to be, and not be burdened with having to do the "male" right thing.


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## mamarosa (Oct 6, 2002)

My son refused to where a dress when I suggested he dress in one last halloween. But now he's more interested in dress-up in general, so I should get some.
I'd definately not try to discourage it too much, or it could turn into something bigger than normal. Although it is a tricky one about them wanting to go out in a dress. And as for suggesting pants as more practical, would the same apply to a girl?
I once actually heard a mother tell her daughter, who asked to go outside and play with a bunch of other kids at a party, 'no, your wearing a dress.' I felt a bit sad for them.

Gender steriotypes are so tricky, and one of my biggest pet peeves. My son had long hair until he was 2 1/2 and absolutely everyone thought he was a girl. I have a lady who works at the grocery store who still calls him a her after almost a year of short hair. And my son is a boy's boy, all cars, trucks, dirt, really deep voice. That's just him. I'm actually glad he is starting to branch out a bit into dress-up and art. ( dh and I are both artists and have both been known to dress in drag.)


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## mamabeard (Sep 27, 2002)

mamarosa,

you're right, gender issues are tricky, and annoying. (i mean, that they exist at all)- i'm pretty much a "tomboy", like as in i identify as being very balanced in my femaleness and maleness. i have long hair, but i also, personally prefer to dress in more (traditionally) male type clothing - i rarely wear skirts, tho i have nothing against them really...

as for skirts also being equally "less practical" for girls.. that's a good question. i mean, that's not the ultimate reason i've distracted him from wearing his skirt.. it's to save myself from having to explain to people that he's a boy, and avoiding weird looks, and possibly embarrassment.. tho, that would be a fun experiment, wouldn't it!

in my house, anything goes. i have no problem with my son wearing a skirt, and would have no problem if he were gay, but unfortunately, society is not so openminded.. boys have it hard.. girls can wear whatever they please, but there is still so much damaging sexism toward boys (and men).. worse in alot of ways than girls and women have it.

by the way, i just cut my son's hair last week. it's been long since birth, and many people also thot he was a girl..


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

I was amazed that peopel actually said "he's probably/might be gay" for goodness sake, he's 2 yo and just being a kid!
First off, don't "worry", where will that get you? It's funny how we are conditioned to assume "gay". And if that were true, we are conditioned to think "gay=bad, horrible life". If I am correct, less than 10% of self-identified "gay" males appear "feminine" and many people put feminine or "cross dressing males in a category amongst itself. Point is, if your son slept with a football, sorrounded himself by all boys, wanted nothing to do with females, he'd be assumed straight, isn't that ronic?!?! Yet if he loves all thing female and sorrounds himself with women, he's assumed gay? What is wrong with that picture?!?! LMAO We live in a society with very contradictory message about sexuality in general. Heck, I was told DD will be a lesbian

*because I BREASTFED her!*

Society wants to be able to easily identify people and put them into categorize, but reality is not that simple~

So love your son, support him, and be the good Mama you are! in reality, he is probably just an average boy with a loving Mama who isn't pushing roles on him. This is probably a stage thatjust happens to be frowned upon in our culture.


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## Moon (Nov 25, 2001)

I'm wondering if providing cool dress up clothes that are male oriented might help even things out a little.

I've seen very cool suits of armor, pirate stuff, etc in catalogs.


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## mamabeard (Sep 27, 2002)

bebesho2,

i'm not really assuming he's gay.. i think i probably mentioned this because i saw a documentary a while back on boys who were born feeling like they were meant to be girls and vice versa.. and they were tortured all their lives because everyone tried to force them into their gender roles..

i guess i'm just trying to emphasize tolerance and exceptance. it's very likely this is just typical boyhood exploration, however.


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## MOmama (Sep 27, 2002)

Does he have a Dad to identify with? Does he play with other boys mostly or girls mostly?

I think these types of things have so much to do with what toys and cloths a 2yo identifies with than being a role idenity problem.

My 4yo love his super man dress-up cloths (old holloween costume from a neighbor). The long cape flying behind him, he spends hours in it, running through the house.


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## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

I find I'm really taking issue with this thread. Not with your original question, Alexis, but with the tenet of the replies.

There's the assumption that, when a 2-year old plays with "girls" stuff, it could mean he's gay. With the "evidence" of some gay men saying they played with girls' stuff as kids. I have a couple of real problems there:

1: how about gay men who played with footballs but also felt different? how about straight men who played with dolls ~ oops, we don't hear from them.

2: more importantly, why do we connect dolls and dressup with girls? isn't one of the most important things that feminism has done for us, showing us that women can play soccer and men can be caregivers? But then, as soon as we see a boy in a dress, the insinuations about gayness come up, and with them the implicit assumptions about gay men being "less male" and dressup in general being less appropriate for males.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against homosexuality. Actually, the opposite, though I'm in a heterosexual relationship myself. I just find it very problematic that child's play is immediately interpreted in sexual terms.

My daughter is 3, and only now she's starting to develop ideas about gender roles. And they're not very traditional at all, though it's hard to show that females don't have to be caregivers to a child who views the world in terms of mamas and babies







. I think we're waaayyy off if we attribute such distinctions to a 2-year old in a dress.

Isn't it more likely that he just likes all clothes, including dresses? And including sports jerseys with trains on them? I know, and have read many times here, that many mamas secretly want to have a girl to play dressup with. Why wouldn't a 2-year old boy want to play dressup?

And Alexis, why do you think he's not appreciating his boyness if he plays princess and fairy ball games? Do you believe that a "real" boy just doesn't do that? If he were a girl, would you have the same feelings? He's only 2, what makes you believe he won't outgrow it? I sure hope he won't turn out to be gay, he'd make an excellent partner for my dd







if he stays that sensitive ! I understand you want to open up his interest, but I bet he'll do that all by himself when he's ready.

Of course I can't speak for mamas of sons, 'cause I only have a daughter, but I'm pretty sure I would let him go out in a dress if he wanted to. My dd has often been mistaken for a boy (we've even elicited comments like "wow, they even put boys in pink dresses nowadays" :LOL). What's the problem with it? What other people think? The messages he'll get? The worst that will happen is that he learns that most males in our society don't wear dresses ~ and isn't that the message you wanted to get to him, anyway?

sorry if I sound terse. I don't mean to. It just really really really ticks me off to see how insiduously homophobia and gender roles can make an appearance, even in such an innocent picture. The only way for children to find themselves is by letting them be themselves, whatever that is.









and ps have you ever thought that you are probably the reason for his "sissiness"? After all, you are his main female role model. Maybe he just loves femaleness because he loves you so much!!!

(edited to shorten. Imagine how bad this post was before .....







: )


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## mamabeard (Sep 27, 2002)

foget i said anything.


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## greenluv (Jul 26, 2002)

We had several heated discussions about it. She even went so far as to say that she knew he was gay already, at age 2! (basically insinuating that I had "ruined" him in some way)









Anyway, all it came down to was that my son has 2 older sisters and he just wanted to play too. He did what he saw US doing, as any child would. I am in no way worried about him loving a particular leopard print headband! lol

If he's a teenager and still doing the tutu's and the leopard print headband... maybe then we'll have a chat about how he feels, but not until then.


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

Simonee-my point exactly! I wasn't pointing anyone out, I just find it interesting how we equate boys who love stereotypical "girl" stuff as gay, thta in itself is an oxymoron.

I have a male cousin who was the 3rd child with 2 older sisters. The ywere close in a ge. I wasa young teen and would do the girls hair/make up and by the time he was 3 he was crying for make up/nail polish/and his hair curled. So I have the pictures of his hair curled up and more! lol HE is nowa roug hand tough teen boy with a very sweet demeanor. And his little brpother, born years later, has all his older sisters and brothers toys now too!

Also, we were shoe shopping for DS's shoes yesterday. HE is 1 yo. the store had mostly "girls" shoes, pink with words liek Princess on them. he was going nuts over these pink light up princess boots and Grandma almost bought them for him, before she saw the price! lol I was shocked coming from my Mom!! He ended up wth the $5 digimon pair instead. But being he has an oldr sister I almost expect him to prefer what she has, which happens to be alot of pink princess crap! The ylook up to their older sibs and Mom. Also, oif you hada DD who was preferring trucks and sports, most peopel would say "how cute! A little tomboy!" Still annoying, yet accepted a rarely looked at asa sexuality issue!


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## mamabeard (Sep 27, 2002)

ramdom quotes:

"I find I'm really taking issue with this thread. Not with your original question, Alexis, but with the tenet of the replies.

There's the assumption that, when a 2-year old plays with "girls" stuff, it could mean he's gay.
But then, as soon as we see a boy in a dress, the insinuations about gayness come up, and with them the implicit assumptions about gay men being "less male" and dressup in general being less appropriate for males.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against homosexuality. Actually, the opposite, though I'm in a heterosexual relationship myself. I just find it very problematic that child's play is immediately interpreted in sexual terms.

sorry if I sound terse. I don't mean to. It just really really really ticks me off to see how insiduously homophobia and gender roles can make an appearance, even in such an innocent picture.

equate boys who love stereotypical "girl" stuff as gay, thta in itself is an oxymoron."

i just woke up, so i'm gonna do my best to articulate what i want to say.

1. i am not homophobic. my best male friend is gay, and i have several other gay friends. also, i think i might be bisexual.

2. i love when my son wears his skirt. i think it's very sweet and he looks adorable. my comment about embarrassment is about the sort of comments or looks we might elicit (i live in a *very* unevolved city) and is related to my own lack of confidence at being able to shake it all off, and protecting my son from the mixed messages he would recieve.

3. three of my exboyfriends wore skirts in public, and i loved it.

4. i wasn't assuming the boy in this particular case was necessarily GAY, i was making a lighthearted joke, and it was just a passing thot. like i said, i intended no weirdness.. my intention was to get the mother to think along the lines of "he *could* be gay, and how would i accomodate this?.." her post sounded somewhat worrisome and i just sincerely hope she's able to let her son *be* her son, whomever he is, gay or not.

like someone said earlier, gender issues are tricky and elicit all kindsa reactions. please understand that i am only discussing one angle.. but i believe it is one to be considered, openly.


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## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

thanks for hte explanation, mamabeard. I really didn't mean to single you out. To me, gayness or straightness is just not something that comes into the picture. I absolutely do not see how the way a toddler plays and dresses could have anything to do with whom he prefers to have sex with when he grows up.

but it's absolutely not personal. And accept my sincere apologies if that's how it came out









anyway, where's alexis? did we scare her off ?


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## mamarosa (Oct 6, 2002)

I agree that it is stupid that sexuality even comes up when dealing with gender stereotype things. The fact that it is a stereotype means it is something that isn't necessarily as big as people make it out to be. (does that make any sense?) It is an assumption that is very loosly based in reality. A self-fulfilling prophesy. We say 'girls play with dolls' so we buy them dolls, so they play with them, and what we said becomes true.
I know we have lots of stuffed animals around the house, but my son plays mostly with cars/trucks or builds with blocks. If we never bought our son any cars/trucks, what would he play with? ( I kind of hate the car/ truck idealization for other reasons, too. Mainly environmental.)

Just recently, my son, whose three, has been agressive with insisting that he doesn't like things that are stereotypical girl things. Like a toy catalogue we were looking for, and we got to the page with the doll house, for example. He goes to day care one day a week and is with my fairly open-minded mom one night a week. I assume that his attitudes, and recognition of these stereotypes is coming from one of these sources, since I am VERY aware never to lable things boy/girl. In fact, I have made an effort since I had my son to call things 'she' instead of 'he'. If you notice, the world generally asigns masculinity to gender neutral or even inanimate objects. So I am countering that. As my son goes out into the world more without me, he is picking up more of the 'he' habit, but he still calls all bugs she.









But if he is acting agressively, (like playing 'shooting', 'bad guy's' etc like he has started to do) is this because he sees other boys doing it and thinks that's what boys do? Or is it a natural outlet for agressive behavior? Is agression a 'boy' thing? Not always.
But traditionally as humans we had hunting as a constructive outlet for physical and emotional tension. In many cultures it is the men who hunt as women are taking care of children, but often women and children have a role in hunting by flushing out the animals, and/or women are free to hunt if they choose, and if they have the time. (I'm an anthropology major, so have read a lot about this.) But in our culture, the only physical outlets are sports and fighting, which can be constructive or destructive, depending on the attitudes.

This is all a bit off topic from the original issue. Perhaps a gender roles discussion group would be interesting.
Will any off you actually read such a long post? Anyway, gender issues are strange.


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## mamarosa (Oct 6, 2002)

P.S.
I too love men in drag, that's one of the things that attracted me to dh. (not the full on drag queen, but tasteful 'gender neutral' drag, if that can exists.)
Maybe we should start making boy skirts all the rage. Plain black, navy, gray or green cotton skirts, mid calf length. There is a bit of a kilt revival going on. Hmmm, the market might be ready...


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## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

T

I wish my dh would wear a kilt - he has terrific legs


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## mamabeard (Sep 27, 2002)

i'm sorry i was defensive too.. can you tell i'm flowing?

i'd like to discuss gender politics with you (and anyone else), mamarosa.

emmaline, for some reason i'm surprised he doesn't wear one..


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## anythingelse (Nov 26, 2001)

if the dress thing doesn't go over with extended family or friends/neighbors, try giving your son a ~~cape~~. My boys all loved a cape to twirl around in.
Mary
mom of 3 boys and 1 girl


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## mamabeard (Sep 27, 2002)

ya but then there's that whole superhero thing... i kinda wanna keep that away from him if possible. i haven't read many comics lately (but there are a lotta future comic-book artists in my school).. it just seems so violent to me.

but i like this idea about revolutionary boy-skirt fashion. maybe some kinda skirt/cape hybrid or something, marketed for boys!


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## dentente (Aug 14, 2002)

Just curious. What is the problem with kids pretending to be superheros? Not all comics are violent. Why is that any different from letting them pretend to be princesses or Jean Paul Gaultier for that matter?

Mystified.

Denny.


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## mamabeard (Sep 27, 2002)

this could be ignorance on my behalf. i dunno.. i haven't looked into it yet. all of my memories of superherohood involve gettin the Bad Guys.. and often treating them just as poorly as they acted in order to be considered Bad.







: ..um, maybe i could look at it figuratively, like, there's good and there's evil. good wins, bad loses.. but still this seems hypocritical to me. maybe there are superheros without this slant? i'd like to see Compassionate Man or maybe even Psychotherapy Man.. but power rangers et al.. shudder..


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## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

just remember wizards and magicians wear capes too! and plenty of boys think they are totally cool

my boys both have long black capes but other colours can be acceptable

btw since this thread started my younger ds (almost 5) has been wearing purple nailpolish (was told at kinder "that means you're a girl!" ) and today asked for a pink rose to pin in his hair - the latter is growing as he wants to wear a ponytail like mine!!

power rangers I have tolerated for years and they definitley are the utter dregs of kiddie entertainment

now for some wacky superheroes - ever see "Mystery Men"??


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## MOmama (Sep 27, 2002)

When my now 4yo was 2 he loved to play in my drawr of hair things. They were pretty and he would put several hair bands on both arms. head bands around his neck and run around the house. He loved it but he is, was and always has been ALL BOY.

He loves anything that has wheels. I work and work with him to avoid the good guy beating up bad guy situations but I just can't seem to de-program this type of behavior. I have decided it is just because he is all boy.

He is now into "No Girls Allowed" type play. OH Well, What will they think of next!


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

This is related (IMO) and I wanted to share:

DD is 5yo and in Kindergarten now. Over the past few months she has come across the "this is for boys/this is for girls" attitude more often than ever. It SHOCKED her. Alot of kids attitudes have shocked her, so I guess I am teaching her well, being she is far from sheltered and DH has different beliefs when it comes to some discipline tactics and "violent" play than me. But I guess I am the "louder" one, he admittedly is not consistant, so she listened to the consistant one. To my point, try not to make your kid confrorm, the world outside will do it with more pressure than we can imagine, so PREPARE him/her by telling them that some people beleive in things that "we" don't... Even with tha tprep., my DD was very saddened when the realization set in.


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## buggsmom (Oct 21, 2002)

simonee, I'm sorry, but I can't resist this one! Proper word choice is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

You wrote:
----------------------------------
"...sorry if I sound terse. I don't mean to. It just really really really ticks me off to see how insiduously homophobia and gender roles can make an appearance, even in such an innocent picture. The only way for children to find themselves is by letting them be themselves, whatever that is.









(edited to shorten. Imagine how bad this post was before .....







: ) [/B][/QUOTE]
------------------------------------

The definition for "terse" is "Brief and to the point; effectively concise: e.g. a terse one-word answer. " (dictionary.com)

Pretty funny given your looong message (with which I concur, by the way). Hope you'll accept my critique in the spirit it's written...all in good humor.


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## sage (Sep 10, 2002)

Wow - some interesting replies. I just wanted to let you know that my son (almost 3) has always enjoyed beads, bracelets, etc. during dress up. I understand your worry about going in public with dresses. He can definately pick up on negative reactions from other kids, adults...and there would be those reactions. Find a way to use that you are comfortable with and be firm with the rule about it. You can enforce rules in a loving way without smothering. Best of luck mama!


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## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

buggsmom:
















English is my second language, and this is how I learn! I've used that word for a long time in that way, oops!!

And imagine, I'm trying to work as a writer.
















"terse" is not a word that lives anywhere near MY neighborhood !


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## mom2th12n3 (Mar 29, 2002)

I have a son who is 8 and he has 2 younger sisters. At this point in his life he won't wear girls things, but he did as a smaller child. He mostly liked make-up and nail polish. Once he even insisted on wearing pink polish to nursery school. At that age the other kids usually didn't judge as much as older kids do and he was and is a very boyish boy. I can still see he would like to wear nail polish when he sees his sisters wearing it. He won't do it now, but gets a little jealous. I think it is about dressing up like using face paint. Same thing to them.
I really believe that for boys it is not fair. They are not as free to express or explore as much as girls are with out ridicule or at least getting some raised eyebrows. A girl these days can be a princess and wear a tu-tu or she can wear overalls and workboots and that is perfectly fine. Girls can participate in "girl" activities or she can be on the football team and never is she seen as possibly gay. 30 or so years ago it was different for girls. I was very much a tomboy when I was growing up and found it very upsetting that I was discouraged from excelling in sports. It is very different today, thank goodness. I hope the other gender catches up with us soon, for our son's sake.


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## Starfire (Jun 26, 2002)

Kind of off the topic, but relevant I think.

How many of you do the "oh (put your kids name here) is that your boy/girl friend? If they talk about a "friend" at school/daycare/park of the opposite sex?

Edited to ask?

If you answer yes, how is it different that saying they have to be striaght? Or not being open to them being gay?


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

2 years old is way too young to start pressing gender roles on a child.

Your son is experimenting with pretend play, and that's totally ok. just go with it.

if he seems to be focusing completely on that, just ride it out, but also consider that he might be trying to fill a void in his life (if, for instance, he doesn't have a feminine woman role-model in his life) OR he might be trying to emulate someone he admires (Cinderella or whatnot) and both of those are ok, but if it's that he's trying to fill a void, see if you can do something to help him get over those feelings.

just because he's playing with these things doesn't mean he'll be gay when he grows up, but even if he does, will you love him any less? i should like to think the answer is no!

my son -- also 2 years old -- loves playing dress up with my things. he plays with my old My Little Pony dolls, as well as my old American Girl doll (Samantha -- quite possibly the most feminine of them all!), and he dresses up in my boots and jewelry, loves playing with my makeup and always asks for me to paint his nails. i see nothing wrong with this, as he is still active, healthy, and happy. he likes the dolls because they're pretty and he loves their hair; he likes playing with my things because he sees me do that stuff. he also likes pretending to cook, serve food, and he loves helping me clean, because they are all things I do and he likes emulating that.

a child's imagination is opened by creative play. don't worry about your son's interests; just accept him for who he is and don't force him to stop doing something he is enjoying (as long as it's something harmless like this of course).

i think you should probably be glad he isn't focusing on "killing" the neighbor's kids or "blowing up" his stuffed animals, because that is far more detrimental than wearing pretty clothes and playing with princess dolls!!


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## mamarosa (Oct 6, 2002)

This is an interesting thread, but I wonder where the initiator went? Have we scared her away with our over analysis of gender roles?

In response to the super heroes thing, I agree that they are too much into 'bad guys' / 'good guys'. My son has just picked up on these terms and I try (probably in vain [sp?]) to explain to my 3yo that everyone has a reason for doing what they do, no one is all bad. I do not think it is healthy to glorify and villify.
However, capes are fun to wear. And magicians do wear them, both male and female. It is a goal of mine to assert that both genders can do everything/anything.

I think I'm going to paint my son's toenails tonight if he'll let me. And his Dad's, too.

Quote from my son a while ago:

"I'm the baddest 'cause I kill mens!" !!!????!!

where and why do they get this??!!


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## BananaMama (Oct 22, 2002)

I don't think your son is thinking about gender stereotypes... he is thinking about make-believe play, normal and typical behavior for his age.
We adults try to be so smart... and read so much into childrens' behavior. Just let them be children! Childhood is so fleeting, isn't it?
Besides... dresses and skirts are so darn COMFORTABLE! There's all that flowy movement, and fresh air down there! I don't blame your son, or any boy/man for that matter, for wanting to be comfortable.


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## thewayhome (Oct 16, 2002)

Hm.... Clothes are just clothes when you're that young. I think it's our understanding of who we are that is important. If a child is confused about being a boy or a girl that's an issue. To me, the fact still remains that we are boys and girls and there are differences. Unfortunately our society has never had dresswear for men, as in the Middle Eastern countries or skirts from Europeans. So, I think it's not so odd to say men just don't wear dresses in our society. If we were meant to be one gender we would all have the same anatomy and hormonal make-up. I think we are dragging around male and female stereotypes that have tried to "balance" themselves by swinging from one extreme to another. Sometimes I think we take this non-gender thing a bit too far. Without some sort of basis or outline for who we are there isn't much sense to anything. Eventually a child needs to know that he or she is a boy or girl and there is nothing wrong with that!! All the best to you.


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## bindimama (Oct 22, 2002)

Hi, logged on today to see if there was any connection to my situation, and was delighted to hear of another little boy wanting to wear dresses. My son Callum is three and a half and has been very fixated on being a girl for over a year now. He calls himself a range of girl names I suppose depending on who has an impact on him. He wears long flowy skirts all day and even to bed. When we go out or when he goes to playschool he takes it off (only because I insist). This is out of wanting to protect him as others can be cruel and judgemental. He gets very upset if someone calls him a boy. He also wears a bandana on his head most of the time, with bobbins or hair grips and this is his hair. He loves pink and dolls and little girls would be his preferred company. I feel much more open to it but my husband isn't so tolerant, I think out of fear of his son being bullied in school of teased by others, and possibly feels threatened and doesn't know how to handle his behaviour.
We have started to limit his 'dress time', and to reinforce that he is a boy who is pretending to be a girl. He shouts in reply that he wants to be 'just a girl'.
I empathise with your original posting, and hope it doesn't become as distressing for your son as it is for mine. He is certainly frustrated by conditioning, and is the happiest little soul when he has his flowing skirts and pretends to do his ballet in front of a mirror, but I feel we are his reality check and are trying to encourage more interaction with his Dad and that seems to help. Is your child identifying with you? I have long blonde hair with a streak of vivid pink and wear a bindi and I think it must have some impact on him.
I wish you well, bindimama


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## DiaperDiva (Jun 30, 2002)

Quote:

maybe your son is gay?
It saddens me that when someone mentions that their little boys like typically girl things that immediate response is like the one above.

I do not think your 2 year old is gay or exhibiting anything but natural behavior for a 2 year old.

I have girls in my toddler class you love trucks and being "boyish" and boys who like being "girlish". It 's just where they are at in their development.

Oh, and I just irritated myself with my statement..

"It saddens me that when someone mentions that their little boys like typically girl things that immediate response is like the one above"

As if there is anything bad about being gay. Yeesh!


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## dillistone (Aug 6, 2002)

Hi all,
This was such a busy subject I ended up skimming a bit so please forgive me if I am being redundant.
My Little Bit, girl, loves to dress up as a boy sometimes. She
can be a princess, a fairy, a horse, a dragon , a knight with a
shield and sword, a bride, zoro, and a grown up lady. So, why
not a boy. I went out and bought her one very boy like outfit
with a matching hat. When she puts this costume on, we call
her Eli. She is allowed to wear her costumes out of the house, any of them, if it is to an approate place such as a good friends house for a visit. I will always pack a spare change of clothes.
We think of her boy costume as one of so many without tring to
assigne more meaning to it. Would it not confuse her to suggest
that it is ok to dress up as anything and play the character except one half of the population. She equates wearing a belt to being a daddy and so if she puts a belt on, she is dressed up like a dad. As much as she admired her dad, I would wonder if she never wanted to play the daddy as I see her playing mummy often. My daughter has taught me much. When she puts on a
fancy outfit or costume, she never wants to see herself in the mirror. She knows that her reflection would never show her as she sees herself. She also knows whih one is more important.
My point is, your little boy could put on just a trifle and still see himself as a beautiful lady. How would you know. The clothing part of the costume is just a small part. It is with imagination that our little ones robe themselves.
Good luck to us all
A mum


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## zombiemommie (Dec 6, 2001)

I am going to stay out of the "other" issue and just focus on your son dressing up....maybe he is dressing up because he identifies with YOU right now in his life. I have a 2.4 year old and altho he isn't in dresses he does want me to fix his hair and put on lipstick and face powder and spritz him with perfume if I am grooming myself (like don't leave me out) and also sometimes if I don't put on lipstick he will say "lips mommy" to remind me (and I don't wear makeup that often)... do you SAHM with him (thus having more of an impact) ? Does he have a Dad, who he sees often (like my son sometimes is in bed maybe 2 of 5 weeknights that Dad comes home after and he doesn't see him) ? Maybe he hasn't hit the male identification thing yet (and who says it has to come at a certain age anyway) Does he see siblings/other kids dressing up ? When I tell you that in my neighborhood we have maybe 5 girls under 4 who come out in full bridal/princess regalia including tiaras and shoes DAILY for play - I really wouldn't be surprised if my ds decided he wanted to wear a princess dress too. Really. Including the tiara. (which leads me to another thought - where did your ds procure his finery ? I am thinking there is a female sibling around - or did he see a costume somewhere and pitch a fit for it ??) And what abotu TV ? Or books ? Has he seen a particularly nice, comforting and comfortable image of a fairy/princess or some story that maybe he identified with some reason, or he favors ? That made a positive impression ? I am asking all of these questions to pick your brain, to probe the situation, to look at what might be behind this stage in his development. My ds also from age 15 months until recently had a bead fettish. He actually liked to be NAKED with beads on (I'm talking 3 -4 strings of mardi gras beads) and wore them outside, inside, to the store, whatever. I didn't care. It was just his thing.

But I can see where it is *hard* to understand this and more of an issue, how to deal with it without affecting his view of himself and whatever view he has of this part of himself (does that make sense). Just follow your heart, don't let society intervene, be gentle with him, and let him lead the way. If he enjoys it so much, trying to take it away or modify it will only affect him in a negative way and/or make him want it more. But I agree with some of the other posters about introducing more costumes of various gender neutral things. So that he has a choice. My SIL nephew who is an only child with only male cousins somehow got exposed to a dollhouse and wanted to only play with dolls and the dollhouse. His father FREAKED and made it such an issue and made this poor kid feel badly for having the interest (he is 3) - mom got him a gender neutral house to try and encourage her ds but also shut up her DH. Eventually he moved away from the dollhouse and started to use it as a car garage, etc. but why does there have to be this gender message behind everything a child does ? (my question to society). Let them play and explore.

Good luck I hope to see you post again her on this so we know how you are feeling about this issue and also how things are going. ((hugs))


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## katencyn (Sep 10, 2002)

No real comment, except to say that I am so happy to have read this thread and hear you all speak on the subjects herein. Its a complete joy to know there are so many people out there who don't fear the gender issue and are willing to discuss it in such an open manner. I recieve so much comfort and positive energy from this site!
Thanks.

Peace,
Cyn


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## soulspirals (Mar 2, 2002)

I agree with many of the posters so far - that children just play and experiment with whatever holds their fascination. Gender roles, as they are, are most likely cemented a little later in life.

I would, however, like to address the gender roles issue for a minute. Society's issues with "gayness" are frequently closely connected to the perceived transgression of gender roles. However, sexual orientation and gender identity are seperate issues. One's gender identity may well inform one's sexual orientation, but there are many, many cases where that is not true.

There are many people who do not fit traditional gender roles in our society. Some of those individuals as teens and young adults, and older activists are claiming an identity of "genderqueer" to name their "transgressions". They feel that gender - the identification of male and female - is about polarities, and that they fit somewhere in the middle. Much akin to the idea of bisexuals fitting into the central gray area of a continuum of gay and straight.

Some people grow up to find that they very much fit into the extremes of societal gender roles and identities - some into the perceived gender of their biological sex at birth, and some into the opposite. There are a substantial number of individuals who are ungoing medical care and treatment to have sex reaaassignment surgery (SRS) to "correct" the body they were born into so that is matches a very different personal gender identity.

Most of the issues are probably not relevant to your little ones and their play time. But it's always possible. My dh began seriously play dress-up in "girls" clothes at age 12 - in the realization that there was something about them that he really indentified with. He started dressing up in hose and things at age 8. When his parents found out, instead of askign questions and exploring the issue with him, his mother "reported" him the their priest. DH was subsequently publicly humiliated by that priest in front of his peers and told to never return to a church because he was not welcome.

Dh has spent his life trying to reconcile these issues. He identifies and genderqueer, and wrestles with what that means to him. He wrestles with what it means to bea a 6' tall person with a goatee who wears skirts to work. He wrestles with whether he will get fired or beat up in a store. Somedays the lack of tolerance is so great that he considers having a sex change because women are given more leway regarding these issues than men are. That process would take tens off thousands of dollars and take 5 years.

Parents who address their children as individuals and help them be a part of the world as the people they perceive themselves to be can do a great service to every person who transgresses gender lines. Teaching children not to be afraid of folks who look different, and explaining that we are a world made up of difference on all lines could also make the world safer for others.

For more information on gender issues, places like GenderPAC http://www.gpac.org/, The International Foundation for Gender Education, http://www.ifge.org/, and Gender Issues http://songweaver.com/gender/links.html may be informative.


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## Clareabelle (Oct 22, 2002)

Hello, my son (now 4) was obsessed by 'girly' things - for his 3rd birthday he chose some gold plastic high heel shoes and a pink sparkly wig!! in the last 12 months this phase has come to it's own end, and now I can't get him out of his 'boy' outfits like pirates and superhero's.

It's definately just a stage and to place emphasis on any behaviour gives it significance it doesn't need. Your reaction is always from your own feelings about something and to connect that to your child's natural behaviour makes the child feel wrong for simply being naturally childish.

Hope this helps x


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Sandra Bem, a psychologist who has focused on gender roles, recommends trying to get away from the "schema" or set of rules that dictates the behavior of each gender and instead try to be "gender-role aschematic". That doesn't mean denying that there is such a thing as gender; it means acknowledging that there are differences between the sexes but not attaching all kinds of irrelevant stuff to that idea. A male is someone who has a penis. If he puts on a skirt but still has a penis, he's still a male.

(NOTE: I've never heard what Bem has to say about transsexuals or people who feel that their physical/genetic gender is not their "real" gender. I don't quite know what I think about that, myself, except that if someone wants to be called by a particular pronoun it is polite to comply.)

Bem has a son named Jeremy whom she raised to be gender-role aschematic. According to psych-textbook legend, one day Jeremy decided to wear barrettes to preschool, and another boy in the class said that this meant he had turned into a girl. Jeremy said, "No, a boy is someone with a penis. Barrettes don't matter." The other boy insisted, and they argued until Jeremy finally pulled down his pants to prove he was a boy! :LOL

I think the tactic I would take with 2yo skirt-boy is, "Most people expect only girls and women to wear skirts. It's just a tradition, like chefs wearing white puffy hats. [or other familiar example] If you wear your tutu to the grocery, some people might get mad because they think you're wearing the wrong thing. It makes me sad when people make mad faces at you. Would you like to put on pants before we go?" but I would leave the choice up to him. I wouldn't get concerned about his gender identification unless there was a prolonged period (over a year) of his insisting that he IS a girl. My suggestion to Bindimama is to seek out a child psychologist or counselor who seems open-minded and to meet with him/her without the child first; odds are that this will reassure you that there's nothing really wrong, and perhaps the counselor can suggest some strategies for dealing with son's feeling upset at being called a boy.

BTW, Ernest Hemingway was dressed in frilly girly clothes until age 6, and look how he turned out!







:


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## tara (Jan 29, 2002)

Hey, soulspirals - welcome! I am married to a transgendered person, and much of what you wrote resonates with me... He has said that if we didn't live in such a strict two-gender system, maybe he wouldn't have had to change his body to feel like he belonged.

I want to applaud the mamas here who work hard to embrace their boys' unique personalities. I really like EnviroBecca's post and suggested response... Sounds really reasonable. It's not easy to wiggle out of gender norms in this society, especially for boys. A friend and I were discussing this recently, and she made a point that really made sense to me - the 'agents' of oppression always have more rigid rules than the 'targets'. Meaning in this example that boys, who have the power in a patriarchal society, have some rigid gender rules because they are charged with keeping that power. Girls, who aren't in the same position of power, can bend the rules a little more. Can sneak in under the radar some. Can wear boys' clothes and play 'boys' games and be called a tomboy. Which is a much more friendly label than sissy.

Hope I'm making some sense.

I have a nephew who is really well-rounded gender-wise. At 2 or 3 he fell in love with his grandma's silky red nighty and slept in it every night. He had a phase when he loved to put on panty hose and rub his legs because it felt good. For him, this was mostly about sensation, I think - red silky nighties feel good! I hate panty hose, but apparently they can feel good on your legs! Why on earth shouldn't a boy play with these sensations? He also to this day (7 years old now) has tea parties with his grandma in which he delicately lifts the cup with his pinky out and says, "Please, darling, pass the sugar, won't you?" But, this kid also wrestles and runs and to my dismay plays with a gazillion violent action figures. I'm so proud of my sister for just going with the flow (now, if I could get her to quit buying him those action figures!!)


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Ladies! Please check out www.utilikilts.com !! It's a fun but serious site where men can buy fantastic, very "manly" and sexy skirts. Very cute.

If you do a google search on mens skirts and kilts there are oodls of links, including some very modern, Euro mens skirts.

Don't forget Sean Connery in his full Scottish garb when he was knighted by the queen. Hooo baby!


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## BrooklynDoula (Oct 23, 2002)

Alexis- My wrok is with people who have non-normative sex and gender identities (and, No, most of them are not gay so this is really not the issue at all). Your son is 2 and you should be happy that he has not been so engendered that he can still enjoy playing without fears such as people assuming he might be gay. Phyllis Burke has an excellent book called Gender Shock, it is out of print but available used on line, which deals with what doctors have called 'childhood gender identity disorder' and she aptly critiques the problems with trying to change childhood gender experessions and the notion of childhood gender identity as a marker of 'prehomosexuality'. I highly recommend it.

On a personal note, while my son is only four months, we dress him in pink and flowers and anything else that we like. When people assume he is a girl sometimes we correct them and sometimes we just say "she's 4 months" and let them think what they want. While it is hard to embrace changing the world through your child because we want everything to be perfect for our children, the assumption that aggressive and violent things are inherently male and frilly and passive things are female needs to end and it won't until we can embrace it -- each one of us.

Love him, as you obviously do and let hom know that that love is unconditional and unrelated to what he wears and how 'well' he does masculinity.

Megan


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## BrooklynDoula (Oct 23, 2002)

The french flm (available at Hollywood video and such) Ma Vie En Rose os really worth watching for those of you dealing with boys dressing as or wanting to be girls. For bindimama, doctors will tell you your son has childhood gender identity disorder but I would be very cautious about accepting this. It is our culture that has a disorder, not your son, and while changing the culture may be harder than changing your son, in the end it might hurt you both a lot less to let him do as he wants and try to make that possible for him.

best,
Megan


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## Alexis (Apr 28, 2002)

WOW!

Thia is great. I don't get on the computer too often and what a big response! I appreciate all the discussion. It's particularly nice to hear from the other moms whose sons enjoy this. I grew up with only sisters and was never really into girly stuff myself.

My son picked out a pair of pink fairy wings at the store the other day and wore them around my traditional inlaws. A teen nephew said I shouldn't have bought them since they were pink. I said that they'd only had pink and white and ds liked pink. Should he miss out on wearing wings just because they aren't blue? He thought for a minute and said no, he shouldn't have to. I thought that was nice.

Anyway, I don't really think I worry about his being gay I just question myself when I get a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle negative feedback. Also none of my friends boys seem to be into this type of play.

Thanks to everyone who posted I read it all with real interest.


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## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

Alexis I won't be the only one to be pleased that you weren't scared off!

your teen nephew sounds sweet! as does yr ds with his pink wings

now I need to email this thread to my dh : as our almost-5 yo was pushing his stroller around last night with his invisible baby sister in it ( sometimes he carries her in his invisible sling) to visit the girl next door, dh was looking a bit .... concerned

e


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## umbrella (Jul 25, 2002)

Quote:

How many of you do the "oh (put your kids name here) is that your boy/girl friend? If they talk about a "friend" at school/daycare/park of the opposite sex?
I've never understood why people say such ridiculous things to children.


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## umbrella (Jul 25, 2002)

Quote:

I hate to enforce gender roles on one so young and open but I feel like he is leaning so heavily that he isn't appreciating his own being a boy.
Right now, he is a *child*. Boy/Girl is all but irrelevant at this age.

Perhaps you should think about what qualities you attribute to being inherently "boy" that you think your son needs to better appreciate.

When you look, you'll find that all qualites that can be attributed to one sex or the other in childhood, is really present in the other sex as well.

So when it comes to children, nothing is inherently boyish or girlie. It's all how we react to it.


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## selket (Oct 23, 2002)

Alexis or any other Moms out there going through the same experiences, I can identify. My son is now 5 and still interested in "girly" things. I have to admit it took some getting used to, on the part of my partner and I.
I've also experienced positive and negative reactions from certain people. My father came right out and said that "this" situation was not right, and I got the ever present "wow ,my boy really likes trucks, even at this age!!" from friends. Still not sure what to make of that one.
As far as wearing dresses in public, that's a tough one. At home he can wear whatever he likes and all the neighbours have seen him in his variety of dresses. When it comes to going out shopping or eating, he wears his pink shirts and his sneakers{that he chose}that are purple or pink. He responded well to the alternative and it was a gentle interaction when first offered, because we made it fun.
I do feel some guilt about the act of offering an alternative. He's never been made to feel shameful about his choices and I guess if he really wanted to wear one out it would be cool with me, although it hasn't come up since he was 3.
Anyway those are MY feelings to deal with and I guess that's the whole point. We relay that people are going to have their opinions, sometimes negative, but that's for them to work through.
My son is now in kindergarten and doing so well, with his many friends {and their on-going blackmarket of jewellery.}. Isn't it fun watching the creativity? He does some terrific bead work that the whole family adorns.
Take care everyone, and please excuse this lengthy post as this is my first.


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## Bekka (Nov 20, 2001)

This is a really fascinating thread! I have two dds who are 2 and 4, and I've actually had variants on this discussion with a few other people.

Suggestions I've heard include using it as an opportunity to explore costumes from other cultures, and emphasize that clothing is *cultural*.

With all due respect, I personally believe that gender is an intrinsic part of identity, and there are characteristics that are more female than male, and vice versa. I would not feel it to be appropriate to limit clothing, but I do feel (have read studies, etc., as well as observed) that there are differences, all of which need to be celebrated. In a son or daughter though, I would not emphasize "you have X characteristic that is a [boy/girl] characteristic", but appreciate the differences that biology *does* give to my children.

An interesting observation: My 2 dds play lots of dressup, lots of princess stuff. It didn't start until this year--dd#1 was a KING for Halloween last year, and made sure everyone knew it. Anyhow, my 2 dds play Cinderella, and take turns crying in the garden, being the fairy godmother and dance with each other at the ball. It is very fluid and there is no definition who is what, they're just playing ALL the parts of the story and take turns. No one says "you be the prince" or whatever. It's fascinating to watch.

What exactly constitutes a "dress" or skirt anyhow? there are no legs cut out? So what about togas, robes, grass skirts, etc.

And some traditional Indian dress the women wear pants! So, it's all cultural.


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## Alexis (Apr 28, 2002)

Well the latest thing ds does now is simply solve the problem of not getting to wear a dress out on the town by pulling his shirt down around his waist. I just bring another shirt and he wears one as a skirt and one as a shirt and says he is a belly dancer!


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## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

next he'll be wanting a bra top with tassles :LOL


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## EmmaJean (Sep 26, 2002)

This subject has been discussed so thoroughly, but I thought you all would appreciate a quote from a great book I read and studied in my "Diversity" class in my BA child development program--so glad to not be student mom anymore, BTW!! Anyway, here's a great quote from a book "Anti-Bias Curriculum: tools for empowering young children" by Louise Derman-Sparks. [It was quite lengthy, but I cut it down to meet the 100 word limit]









"[Two?s are]constructing their sense of self as an individual both separate from and interconnected to others... Beginning awareness of gender, race, ethnicity, and different physical abilities is part of this process? [Two]-year-olds depend on adults for providing the necessary materials, support, and safety for ?development.?

"Gender identity consists of two components: a person's sexual identity, which is biological, and a person's role identity, which is cultural? They need adult help to understand that their gender identity is based on their anatomy; ?not ? what they like or do, how they dress, what they feel, and how they express their feelings."

I couldn't find my good quote for this, but it is totally normal for your son to being acting the way he is. He is mimicking (sp?) you and just following his biggest influence in his life right now--you! He's trying to figure out what makes him "separate from and interconnected to" you and the rest of the world. I would say that you should just make sure that his life and influences are *balanced*. Bring all types of clothes, props, etc. to a "dramatic play" area so he can have lots of options for play, exploring lots of roles, exposing him to new roles and people he might like--fireman, secretary, grocery store, banker, mom, dad, gardener, cook, president, etc. Balance is key in all areas of life and especially when teaching and influencing your child. He's trying to learn what makes him a boy and "can that change?"?even if he?s not verbally expressing this. He needs to know that he's a boy no matter how he acts--it's biological.

Another thing is that at this age children can find one thing that they like (just think about how he eats--probably picky) and they stick to it. This dress phase may be just that--a phase. Sounds like you're handling all this well though! Enjoy your wonderful boy, and keep up with avoiding others stereotyping his behaviors. He?s exploring his world, his interests, and his autonomy!! I agree with others that *texture* is very important to devlopment right now. Part of it may be him enjoying the feeling of different materials. Part of it may be that girls just have more fun, and he wants in on some of that! Being a bellydancer--too cute!!

Emily


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## Hikaru (Sep 1, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by umbrella_
*

I've never understood why people say such ridiculous things to children.*

I totally agree. My son is 2 and a half and loves to hug other kids.
One mother in our play group always says, "Oh, are you going to
get married when you grow up?" when he hugs her dauyghter, who is not even two yet. This thread has motivated me to call her on it next time, because it truly is ridiculous.


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## Hikaru (Sep 1, 2002)

I logged in today for the first time in ages and whoo hoo, this thread is really speaking to me. A few days ago
we needed to order a winter jacket for my son (two and a half) and I showed him the catalogue and asked him which color he wanted.
Of course he pointed to the bright pink one and I am totally ashamed that my first reaction was to try and talk him out of it!
As a biracial child he is already singled out for being different and I
just couldn't expose him to the teasing that he inevitably would have experienced.
BTW, I showed him the catalogue again later and he pointed to the yellow jacket, so I rushed to order that one for him before he could change his mind again.

Oh yes, another thing. Yesterday I had a Halloween party in one of the college classes I teach. I told the kids to wear costumes...
and two of the guys showed up in skirts.....and I am pretty sure both of them are straight (not that it matters really). Clearly some guys just like to play dress up, and don't necessarily outgrow it as they get older.


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## Xenogenesis (May 1, 2002)

My son looovves the colour "pink"


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## tara (Jan 29, 2002)

Quote:

"Gender identity consists of two components: a person's sexual identity, which is biological, and a person's role identity, which is cultural? They need adult help to understand that their gender identity is based on their anatomy; ?not ? what they like or do, how they dress, what they feel, and how they express their feelings."
Hmmmmm.... I know it isn't often that a child is transgendered (don't know the stats, but it's pretty rare), but I know from my partner's childhood stories how very, very hard it is for a trans child to be told over and over, "You're a girl. You have a vagina. You're a girl," when he feels like a boy inside (or vice versa). For this reason, we don't plan to make the connection between anatomy and gender so cut in stone. It's not. Well, for most people I suppose it is, but in reality there are so many shades of grey in there. Basically, from my experience being partnered to someone who is trans, I call my child a boy but feel like we never know until he's old enough to tell us himself.

Check out this article: http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8 Really great article about raising a transgendered child.


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## selket (Oct 23, 2002)

My son also pulls his shirts down to make skirts. For long hair he puts a pair of his sisters tights on his head or he rolls up the sleeves of a shirt then puts it on his head for the Princess Leia "bun" look, I thought that was pretty clever!
A common theme in these threads is that it might be just a stage. That was the mantra in this house for a period of time and then befor you knew it he was five and still very feminine. So we decided to just parent in the moment. It can get very frustrating
when you are waiting for something to change that's absolutely beyond your control.
Just one more comment, I'm sure you have thought of offering him choices when role playing. In my experience ds would have none of it, he was a girl or nothing. It's still that way, he's always correcting his sister during play when she calls him brother.
I don't know anyone around me with wonderfully creative boys like my son, it's comforting to read about all these different experiences.


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## bindimama (Oct 22, 2002)

Hi again, its bindimama here. Its lovely to read all these messages regarding boys opting for things that are considered 'girlish'. I feel so liberated yet so saddened at the same time. My son Callum pleaded with me at two and a half, he said 'make me a girl Mummy'. For so long I let him be who he wanted to be, but at this stage he believes he is a girl, and hates any reference to 'boy' stuff. He denies even having a penis, and pushes it back up so its not visible!
My husband and I started correcting him when he said he was a girl and said you are pretending to be a girl. But he says, I want to be just a girl.........Lately his two year old brother says he's a girl too, but I correct him immediately and say he is a boy, and he laughs! I couln't go through the same saga again..... but I feel he's picking up behaviour rather than any desire to be anything else. He is a TURBO charged boy and no matter how he pretends to be a princess, it doesn't look convincing.
I made cloaks for Hallow'een, and Cal converted being a wizard into a princess! Its always interesting in my house......
bindimama


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

I skimmed through most of the replies. My 2 year old boy loves the idea of being a princess. I don't think he identifies it with being a boy or girl. He likes to wrap up in my long sheer curtains and talk about being a princess. Why wouldn't he- the costumes are glitzy and fascinating. The princesses get all sorts of attention on tv shows. We don't make a big issue of it. We probably encourage him more towards other types of play, but we don't discourage the princess stuff.

He also likes cars, swords, and all sorts of stuff. He hasn't wanted to wear dresses out of the house. If he did, I'd probably dress him up in some type of male robe or wizard dress. We generally don't wear dress up clothes out of the house anyway.

Gender issues? Those seemed like odd responses to me too.
I don't even think about those at 2 yrs old. He is not worried about being a boy or a girl right now- just a kid. My cousin said her little boy used to love having the older girl cousins make him all up with makeup and dresses. Now he's a teen boy into skateboards and jeans. Why worry about the gender stuff now? I haven't seen any definitive study on clothing and makeup in early childhood and its effect on gender issues in later life.

By the way dad is a definitely manly man, blacksmith knifemaker. He doesn't have a problem with this stuff either. Male role modeling has more to do with behavior, not dress.


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## montanafiddler (Oct 27, 2002)

HI all, I'm new!
Wow, what a read! Alexis, I immediately thought of my "little brother" at 6 and 7 yr. I remember the time he sat still for HOURS braiding microscopic pieces of wool into the longest, thinnest braid possible. Then, he crowned himself with his creation and revealed his HAIR!







He told me that it matched mine and wore it proudly thru town, to music lessons, the homeschool group, field trips..... for a year! he still has that hair braid curled up in the army trunk somewhere. after it served as hair he reverted it to a tail. it never meant "girl" or "boy" to him, just hair and then tail







.
I distinctly remember another time we were playing "little house" and he told me to go hunt cause he was taking care of the "children" (dolls).








Doesn't anyone remember the days when boys wore dresses till age 3 when they were shortened? KNow why? So they wouldn't crawl or toddle near fire before understanding danger!







:


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## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Check out the French movie Ma Vie En Rose, it's in the foreign section of every major video rental place. It's about a family with a similar struggle, and they tend not to handle it so well. It may do you well to see what it's like from the boy's point of view.
Lauren


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## selket (Oct 23, 2002)

Bindimama, my son used to do the exact same thing to his penis. It was pretty shocking at first, but now he seems to have accepted it. He also used to insist that all girls have penises.
What more can we do than to let them express themselves?
My son is going out as Avril Lavigne for halloween she's this punky pop singer who is big in Canada right now. There is never a dull moment in my house either, I can easily say he makes us laugh daily with his get-ups and the greatest thing is that he laughs at himself.
Hope I'm not sounding too preachy or anything I can just totally identify with what you are going through. It can be really frustrating sometimes.
Selket


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## fummy mommy (Jun 22, 2002)

for what it's worth. My ds who is now four wears a dress often. he also pretends he is Marry Ingalls. He does have an older sister who likes to dress him "properly". Both my dh and I have let him wear a dress out in public. He has worn one to church , the library, visiting a friends house. sometimes he digs inthe dirt with his "best dress" on. When we go out in public I just make sure that his wearing underwear, or shorts. but he loves to play in the dirt with his work pants on too. My dh and I figure they are just clothes, and he can wear what he wants. He even wears a girls swimming suit when we go swimming. But now that it is colder out and snow is landing on the ground the dress thing has slowed down.


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## indigofamily (Apr 13, 2002)

I know exactly what you are going through. My son was 2 or 3 when he declared that he wanted to be a girl. I think this had a lot to do with advertising--"It's a great time to be a girl-Barbie"
Almost everything he was interested in was supposedly for girls. My husband and I chose not to buy into these stereotypes-thank goodness. I say support your child's interests and love him for the creative boy he is becoming! Yes, it has been hard sometimes- I kept wondering if he would outgrow this-if he needed therapy-if I was "turning him gay" -but these were my own insecurities-not the worries of a creative kid. My son just turned 9 and he still loves the costumes-but now they also include star wars capes and Harry Potter cloaks! He also loves paper airplanes,legos, Titanic history, collecting bugs, bmx racing,skateboarding,etc
lots of "boy"stuff! There is a book called Gender Shock-Exploding the Myth of Male and Female- I can't remember the authors name,if you can't find it please e-mail me and I'll try to find it. It was a great help to me and saved us a lot of worrying and frustration. We also have a 3 yo girl who is quite a tomboy-go figure!


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## amy mama (Apr 17, 2002)

I wish I had seen this thread earlier. What bothers me about this is how it is really about sexism-the traditional anti-woman kind. After all, when our little girls like to climb trees and play sports and wear jeans, most of us prouldy say, "oh, what a little tomboy she is." People are happy to see a girl exhibiting strong "boy"like qualities. But because there still is such wide disregard for things thought of as feminine-it's not ok for boys to do things that are seen as "girly". When will society stop equating pink,soft,nurturing things with being weak and silly and having no value-and certainly not good enough for a boy? what is inherently girlish (i.e. bad) about fairies and pink? And what is inherently boyish (i.e. admirable and good) about being strong and climbing trees? Shouldn't our children have the ability to be both strong and nurturing, and like things that are pink and blue? It's 2002 already.

ok, mini-rant officially over.


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## Stylishned (Jun 11, 2003)

Hay what is wrong with a 2 year old boy playing with girl's stuff like dolls and things. When I was three I used to love to have my mother put finger nial polish on my nails. I even rember once I wanted to wear lip stick to school, which I was not allowed to do. I even like to wear skirts and dresses with my aunt Linda playing dress up, I had a grand time too. I guess the only thing I refused to wear was the rumba panties and no one forced me too.
Don't worry about your son, he is as normal as can be. He will turn out to be a fine young man, wait and see.

Now I am a granddad with eight grand kids, and a wife that can't be beat! She is a great mother to our Kids and a Great grandma to the grand kids.


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