# Is there ANY decent music out there for preteens?



## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

My DD1 recently got an MP3 player and gave me a long list of songs she wants for it. Wow. I was shocked at what was on there. Some was fine, I recognized them, but the ones I didn't know I looked up the lyrics for.

OMG.

A sample of some of the lyrics from a few different songs (behind a spoiler because some is graphic):
Warning :: Spoiler Ahead! Highlight to read message!

She's so fine she can't be beat.
(I'll fucking beat her.)

I want Candy. (She's just a loose-pussied ho.)

I dragged her down I put her out
And back there I left her where no one could see
And lifeless cold into this well
I stared as this moment was held for me
A kiss goodbye, your twisted shell

I wanna see what your insides look like (I wanna see what your insides look like)
I bet you're not fucking pretty on the inside (Not so pretty)

It goes on and on and on. Either lyrics graphically about sex, or violence, or both. It just disgusts me. I have NO problem with telling her she's not allowed to have this music on her MP3 player.

So please, I'm desperate... I need some 12 year old appropriate music.


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## inkedmamajama (Jan 3, 2003)

what about introducing her to classics? beatles, doors, etc?

also i dont know if camp rock is too young for her, but the music in that movie(except for a couple of songs) are really positive and fun and I like them too!


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

She does like Beatles and Rolling Stones, but is very upset that I have issues with her "favorites". I'll check out Camp Rock. I really feel she needs to be a kid at least a little bit more.


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

Wowza, I can see why you wouldn't like those lyrics. Is there a particular genre of music she seems more drawn to?


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## inkedmamajama (Jan 3, 2003)

also-what about introducing her to others like pink floyd, beastie boys, green day, U2, etc?

there are gobs and gobs of artists out there that do not have to promote violence...what are the specific artists you had issue with? then i can probably think of artists that would be in line with her tastes.

*************

additionally, as long as you teach her well, she should be able to hear a few songs like that without having them influence her in a negative way. have some discussions of why you have a problem with these lyrics, and let her discuss with you why she likes those songs...this seems like a great opportunity to have some great discussions about ethics and beliefs and the line that you both have to walk.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Well then she can hear those songs when shes 18 and not let them influence her then. I'm certainly never going to allow them for a minor. It's just disgusting.

Her favorite group is My Chemical Romance. ~shudder~ They are so horrible.

I've tried getting her interested in Pink Floyd and she can't stand them. ~sighs~ She basically says she hates anything I suggest, but I'm still not giving up.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ledzepplon* 







Wowza, I can see why you wouldn't like those lyrics. Is there a particular genre of music she seems more drawn to?

She likes whatever the genre is called that My Chemical Romance is in. I call it crap, but I don't think that's the true name for it.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Alternative rock.

Lets see...Simple Plan has some swearing, but their lyrics are over all pretty decent. NickelBack, Bowling For Soup, 3 Doors Down.

I like Lynch Mob, Linkin Park stuff like that...

And there's classics, Led Zepplin, Guns and Roses, Rolling Stones.

I think just having the band names won't help much though. You would need to look up lyrics for each individual song since rock and alternative bands can have some really offensive songs and some not so offensive songs.

Maybe you don't suggest. Maybe you just find a way for her to hear it and decide on her own she likes it.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

I don't mind some swearing, so that's okay. As long as it's not all talking abuot sex, violence, or a combo of the two. Ugh.

I'll get some songs from those groups and check them out. I like a couple Linken Park, and when I was younger I loved Guns N Roses, Led Zepplin, etc. That's a good idea.







Thanks!


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## ziggy (Feb 8, 2007)

I went on a long rant about how anti-feminist the music industry is, etc etc. I figured you didn't want to hear that, but ugh, I sympathize. I hate it when I see my younger sibling's playlists and the music promotes drinking, drugs, violence, and misogyny.

You can check out The Cliks - complicated is about sex, but the rest are pretty tame. A few f-bombs here and there.

Granted, I just have a major major crush on the lead singer.


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## Petronella (Aug 22, 2007)

Kate Perry? DD and her friends like her. Not that bad.

Also, just out of curiosity, what's wrong with My Chemical Romance? I kinda like them. Well, in a I-can-stand-hearing-'em-coming-from-my-daughter's-room way.


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## ziggy (Feb 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Petronella* 
Kate Perry? DD and her friends like her. Not that bad.

Also, just out of curiosity, what's wrong with My Chemical Romance? I kinda like them. Well, in a I-can-stand-hearing-'em-coming-from-my-daughter's-room way.

Katy Perry? Really?

I kissed a girl is bad enough, what with all the "it's not what good girls do" and such, but she has a song called Ur So Gay. One of the lines? "you're so gay, and you don't even like boys." Ugh. Can we NOT perpetuate using "gay" as an insult?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Amy, for Simple Plan, she might really like the song "I'm just a kid!" All about teenaged angst!


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## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

I think she is going to have an aversion to anything you suggest just because you are her mom that doesn't let her listen to HER music. So before you start suggesting, I think you need to find a different approach to her.

Those are awful lyrics, and no, kids shouldn't be listening to them. The problem is, you can't really control what a child likes or doesn't like. You can certainly forbid it inside the house, but not inside her head. By 15-16 she will listen to it one way or another, and will make a bigger point to sneak it in, in direct proportion to how much it disgusts you.

I'm not trying to say "don't forbid", I'm trying to say... Look at what your goal is?

* If it's NOT to hear the music yourself, then you can simply ask her to only play it on her mp3 player, and never out loud.

* If it's for her not to listen to that music, then it won't work... Well, maybe it will until she is 15, by then you will have to either turn into a controlling parent that will not be able to know what's going on with the kid without spying on her, or accept the fact that she chooses to listen to disgusting songs.

* If it's to make sure she doesn't like those songs and lyrics.. I'm sure you know that won't work just because you don't like them.

Could you look for a compromise? If you could calmly and without judgement discuss with your daughter why you don't like them, and that you are stuck, and want some of her ideas on how to resolve this so that she is happy and you are happy, maybe he two of you could find a solution you both can live with. She might be open to changes if she's involved in bringing them about.

Good Luck either way!


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Petronella* 
Kate Perry? DD and her friends like her. Not that bad.

Also, just out of curiosity, what's wrong with My Chemical Romance? I kinda like them. Well, in a I-can-stand-hearing-'em-coming-from-my-daughter's-room way.

Well most of the lyrics I posted in the OP were from My Chemical Romance, and I've read much worse lyrics in their songs that I haven't posted. So that's why I don't like them.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oriole* 
I think she is going to have an aversion to anything you suggest just because you are her mom that doesn't let her listen to HER music. So before you start suggesting, I think you need to find a different approach to her.

Those are awful lyrics, and no, kids shouldn't be listening to them. The problem is, you can't really control what a child likes or doesn't like. You can certainly forbid it inside the house, but not inside her head. By 15-16 she will listen to it one way or another, and will make a bigger point to sneak it in, in direct proportion to how much it disgusts you.

I'm not trying to say "don't forbid", I'm trying to say... Look at what your goal is?

* If it's NOT to hear the music yourself, then you can simply ask her to only play it on her mp3 player, and never out loud.

* If it's for her not to listen to that music, then it won't work... Well, maybe it will until she is 15, by then you will have to either turn into a controlling parent that will not be able to know what's going on with the kid without spying on her, or accept the fact that she chooses to listen to disgusting songs.

* If it's to make sure she doesn't like those songs and lyrics.. I'm sure you know that won't work just because you don't like them.

Could you look for a compromise? If you could calmly and without judgement discuss with your daughter why you don't like them, and that you are stuck, and want some of her ideas on how to resolve this so that she is happy and you are happy, maybe he two of you could find a solution you both can live with. She might be open to changes if she's involved in bringing them about.

Good Luck either way!

DD is way to much of a follower for me to be comfortable with her listening to those songs or any like them. If that means as she gets older I have to become more controlling, so be it.







She's just a kid and I fully believe children need a bit of control in their lives. No we don't spank or anything like that, but I won't relinquish control in situation I feel can be dangerous to her, like that music. (And I know control isn't a terribly MDC approved concept, but it is something I do not see as harmful, and in fact can be quite needed.)

But again, as I mentioned, she's a follower. She likes these groups because it's what her friends listen to. But we're also moving in about a month so she'll make new friends. I'm praying her new friends have better taste and then she'll follow them into listening to more positive music. Until them, I want to find enough songs to fill her MP3 player in the hopes of at least distracting her from what she's missing.

Oh, and I have tried to talk to her about what she likes about them, and what I don't, and how to compromise. She says there's nothing wrong with them because they don't talk about suicide. When I mention it takes about sex and violence she says those things aren't a big deal. THAT disturbs me that she thinks those things aren't troubling.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

You could have her read boring musicological research on contemporary pop music. That will suck the fun out of anything.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Sounds like a thrill.

I'm not trying to take her fun away, but she doesn't need fun to come in the form of lyrics about abusing someone, rape, murder, etc.


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## holothuroidea (Mar 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
I don't mind some swearing, so that's okay. As long as it's not all talking abuot sex, violence, or a combo of the two. Ugh.

I'll get some songs from those groups and check them out. I like a couple Linken Park, and when I was younger I loved Guns N Roses, Led Zepplin, etc. That's a good idea.







Thanks!

Am I the only one who sees how hypocritical this is?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
DD is way to much of a follower for me to be comfortable with her listening to those songs or any like them. If that means as she gets older I have to become more controlling, so be it.

...

But again, as I mentioned, she's a follower. She likes these groups because it's what her friends listen to. But we're also moving in about a month so she'll make new friends. I'm praying her new friends have better taste and then she'll follow them into listening to more positive music.

Your complete lack of faith in your daughter is much more disturbing and worrisome to me than any of those lyrics. Do you really think she is that incapable?


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Hmm.... *trying to remember what I listened to when I was 12* Backstreet Boys, NSync, all that boyband crap (now that really IS crap music







) But my parents had long since instilled a taste for classic stuff and stuff going way back from the 50's (Dad used to restore old cars, belonged to a car club, most weekends spent listening to Elvis et al at car cruises) I remember being 10 years old and hearing Simon and Garfunkle's "Scarborough Fair" for the first time....still one of my most memorable musical experiences. Then as I entered high school I got into stuff like Depeche Mode, The Cure, New Order, The Smiths, NIN, Stabbing Westward....boy was I a pleasant happy person back then! Still love the music, though! I was also heavily involved with the orchestra at school and the local youth orchestra, so classical music was also a huge part of my musical library. And one of the most rewarding things about this, I believe, was that it really helped me to distinguish "better taste" in music. I mean, once I heard stuff like Vivaldi's Four Seasons or Mahler's Resurrection Symphony, stuff like the Backstreet Boys seemed really stupid and bland. I dunno, I've kind of listened to everything and still do. Any "graphic" stuff, especially from rap music, was mostly heard at parties or in friends' cars. I never listened to it on my own. I'd say as long as she's listening to more than one kind of music and not stagnating on the local pop stations, she's fine.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *holothuroidea* 
Am I the only one who sees how hypocritical this is?

Your complete lack of faith in your daughter is much more disturbing and worrisome to me than any of those lyrics. Do you really think she is that incapable?

Um, I don't see it as hypocritical or a lack of faith.

I have two teenage sisters - one is 17, one is 19.

The 17 year old will follow her friends to the end of the earth and back. Dresses, talks, acts, like them, etc. likes the same boys, music, movies.

The 19 year old is the complete opposite. She's a leader in every sense of the word. She sets her own likes and dislikes. She has as many friends, but they are all individuals too!

And my two sisters were obviously raised the same way.

I don't think there's anything wrong with avoiding misogynist, violent music with such a young adolescent. Not when there's so much more out there.

We get flack for not letting our five year old watch Hanna Montana, Suite Life of Zack and Cody, or Camp Rock/High School Musical.

Guess what? I don't care. She's a child. Practically a toddler. I'm not underestimating her abilities - I'm allowing her to enjoy childhood free of influences that I can control (because I'm aware there's some I can't).

Sorry OP, I realize you can defend yourself. This just struck a nerve with me.


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## holothuroidea (Mar 30, 2008)

I can understand that you don't see a lack of faith. I'm sorry that we disagree there... it's just that if my mom said those things about me when I was 12 I would have been deeply hurt and offended. Everyone is different, though.

However, the hypocrisy is just a matter of fact.

The language might not be as blatant but Linkin Park, Guns N Roses and Led Zepplin all have more than their fair share of songs about sex and violence and even violent sex (welcome to the jungle, anybody? feel my serpentine, i wanna hear you scream, i wanna watch you bleed, etc. etc...). Not to mention the drugs. Oh, boy the drugs.

"Oh, honey, you can't listen to that awful music about rape. Here, listen to this song about a prostitute drug addict instead." Not hypocritical? Give me a break.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *holothuroidea* 
However, the hypocrisy is just a matter of fact.

The language might not be as blatant but Linkin Park, Guns N Roses and Led Zepplin all have more than their fair share of songs about sex and violence and even violent sex (welcome to the jungle, anybody? feel my serpentine, i wanna hear you scream, i wanna watch you bleed, etc. etc...). Not to mention the drugs. Oh, boy the drugs.
.

Hypocrisy isn't a matter of fact though...

Stairway to Heaven - Led Zepplin

Paradise City - Guns N Roses

Pushing Me Away - Linkin Park

Just because a band has some song that deal with drugs, sex, violence... doesn't mean they ALL do. Heck, those songs don't even have swearing in them.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

My 8 and 14 year olds (dds) favourite groups are Abba and Queen, mainly Queen.

Dd1 a couple of years ago loved one song, soulja boy I think, and I had her read the lyrics and explained them to her. She hasn't listened to it since.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *holothuroidea* 
Your complete lack of faith in your daughter is much more disturbing and worrisome to me than any of those lyrics. Do you really think she is that incapable?

Incapable? No. But she is a follower, that is fact. That doesn't mean she is incapable of making her own decisions, but the decisions she makes are heavily influenced by what her friends like.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
I'd say as long as she's listening to more than one kind of music and not stagnating on the local pop stations, she's fine.

Well, she does have some other musical interests, but no where near as much as what I quoted at the beginning. On her song list she had about 180 songs. 150 were songs and groups all similar to My Chemical Romance.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nursemummy* 
Um, I don't see it as hypocritical or a lack of faith.

I have two teenage sisters - one is 17, one is 19.

The 17 year old will follow her friends to the end of the earth and back. Dresses, talks, acts, like them, etc. likes the same boys, music, movies.

The 19 year old is the complete opposite. She's a leader in every sense of the word. She sets her own likes and dislikes. She has as many friends, but they are all individuals too!

And my two sisters were obviously raised the same way.

I don't think there's anything wrong with avoiding misogynist, violent music with such a young adolescent. Not when there's so much more out there.

We get flack for not letting our five year old watch Hanna Montana, Suite Life of Zack and Cody, or Camp Rock/High School Musical.

Guess what? I don't care. She's a child. Practically a toddler. I'm not underestimating her abilities - I'm allowing her to enjoy childhood free of influences that I can control (because I'm aware there's some I can't).

Sorry OP, I realize you can defend yourself. This just struck a nerve with me.

Thank you. That's my point exactly. Some people just are followers. When we lived in Phoenix my DD wore pink, wanted to be a cheerleader, etc. She was happy with all that. But hmm, so were all her friends. When we moved to Colorado she made different friends and immediately won't wear pink, or anything with pink in it. HATES cheerleaders. Etc. All her tastes changed to mimic those of her new friends.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *holothuroidea* 
I can understand that you don't see a lack of faith. I'm sorry that we disagree there... it's just that if my mom said those things about me when I was 12 I would have been deeply hurt and offended. Everyone is different, though.

However, the hypocrisy is just a matter of fact.

The language might not be as blatant but Linkin Park, Guns N Roses and Led Zepplin all have more than their fair share of songs about sex and violence and even violent sex (welcome to the jungle, anybody? feel my serpentine, i wanna hear you scream, i wanna watch you bleed, etc. etc...). Not to mention the drugs. Oh, boy the drugs.

"Oh, honey, you can't listen to that awful music about rape. Here, listen to this song about a prostitute drug addict instead." Not hypocritical? Give me a break.

Well since I don't TELL her I think she's a follower, etc I really don't see a problem with it. I don't see saying that as offensive though since it's a FACT.

And I should have clarified, when I say I listened to those bands when I was younger I was referring to when I was about 17/18/etc. At my DD's age I was listening to Michael Jackson, NKOTB, Madonna, etc. And not all the songs were appropriate for my age either, looking back I wish my mom had controlled what I listened too. She didn't really care though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Hypocrisy isn't a matter of fact though...

Stairway to Heaven - Led Zepplin

Paradise City - Guns N Roses

Pushing Me Away - Linkin Park

Just because a band has some song that deal with drugs, sex, violence... doesn't mean they ALL do. Heck, those songs don't even have swearing in them.

This is true. With the groups I'm more familiar with too I feel I can better choose out the songs which aren't a horrible influence.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy*
My 8 and 14 year olds (dds) favourite groups are Abba and Queen, mainly Queen.

Dd1 a couple of years ago loved one song, soulja boy I think, and I had her read the lyrics and explained them to her. She hasn't listened to it since.

Oh I wished that worked with DD. I've read over the lyrics to a couple songs with her and she just doesn't see anything wrong with them. Then gets upset that I "don't understand" because ALL her friends listen to it so it must be okay!


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

My parents controlled the music I listened to so I would listen to music down the street. I don't control my childrens music and my dds fav band is MCR (the name the TRUE fans of My Chemical Romance use







) and we took her to see them for her 11th birthday. I'm sick to death of hearing them now and I have banned the playing of them at an audible level for the the foreseeable future but I don't see how banning music from a kids MP3 is going to accomplish anything. If she doesn't like the music in her MP3 why would she use it and then what is the point of having one.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

If she chooses not to use her MP3 because she doesn't have MCR on it, well that's her choice. I've listened to a few of their songs, read their lyrics, and it's not something I'm even remotely comfortable with allowing her to listen to, period. Not even just at non-audible levels.


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## kay4 (Nov 30, 2004)

my 10 and 13 yo like The Jonas Brothers, hannah montana, miley cryus (I know they are the same lol) Taylor Swift, Carrie Underwood, Avril Lavigne, Jordin Sparks.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

are there clean versions of the same songs on itunes? I know with some of the (c)rap songs my dsd listens to there are explicit and clean versions to choose from.









If there isn't a clean version, we don't buy it.

And yes, I do have an explicit list on my ipod I play in the car when the kids are not with me. They don't hear NIN or a couple of other particularly filthy tunes I find amusing but inappropriate for pre-teens to be singing or hearing.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
If she chooses not to use her MP3 because she doesn't have MCR on it, well that's her choice. I've listened to a few of their songs, read their lyrics, and it's not something I'm even remotely comfortable with allowing her to listen to, period. Not even just at non-audible levels.

I hear what people are saying about 'well, they'll just do it on their own anyway, with friends, etc.'

Don't we say the same thing about smoking/drinking/sex?

What happened to talking to our kids about choices, things we find acceptable, etc?

For the record, I'm no prude. I listen to all kinds of stuff that would make my mother blush. But I'm married with two kids. When I was at home, we followed the rules.

My parents were big anti-smokers. So, we talked and talked and talked about not smoking. ALL my friends smoked, and the pressure I got... But guess what? I knew how a) gross B) unhealthy and c) expensive smokes were. So, I resisted.

On the other hand, alcohol was treated with more tolerance. We grew up, say past age thirteen, allowed to have wine with dinner. Then, say at fifteen, allowed to have a beer at a family BBQ. Totally demystified alcohol, I never snuck around or stole booze from my parents.

Kay, may have gotten OT there.







Basically I'm saying what's wrong with teaching and enforcing rules/values that we believe are true for us? Everyone will adjust or make their own rules when they leave home. All we can do is give them the best tools to work with.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I guess that's going to depend on what you consider "decent" music. My first love in music since 1983 has been heavy metal (NWOBHM and "classic", mostly...but some "hair bands", thrash, etc., too). Iron Maiden is my all time favourite band, nudging out Rush by a thread and everybody else by a landslide. And...they have some really disturbing lyrics. Aside from 22 Acacia Avenue, there's not a lot of sex - but there's a whole lot of violence.

I'd also like to point out:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
And there's classics, Led Zepplin, *Guns and Roses*, Rolling Stones.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
I like a couple Linken Park, and when I was younger I loved *Guns N Roses*, Led Zepplin, etc. That's a good idea.







Thanks!

Guns N Roses...hated them at first, and when I saw them live in...'89?, then sucked royally. I grew to like them a lot, however:

_I wanna watch you bleed.
I wanna hear you scream._
...both from Welcome to the Jungle

_See me hit you, you fall down.
Turn around b***h, I got a use for you._
...both from It's So Easy


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
And I should have clarified, when I say I listened to those bands when I was younger I was referring to when I was about 17/18/etc. At my DD's age I was listening to Michael Jackson, NKOTB, Madonna, etc. And not all the songs were appropriate for my age either, looking back I wish my mom had controlled what I listened too. She didn't really care though.

How would she have done that? I had friends whose parents "controlled" what they listened to. So...they didn't own the tapes. At least, they didn't own tapes that their parents had bought. Some of them had copies. Some of them bought their own. Some just listened to the copies their friends owned.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Guns n roses songs that don't have offensive lyrics:

Think About You
Don't Cry
Sweet Child 'O Mine
You Can't Put Your Arms Around a Memory

I can probably think of more, but this is really just off the top of my head.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

My 14yo listens to mostly country, unlike the majority of her friends.

My almost 17yo listens to a lot of AltRock, including MCR, AFS, etc., but also to a pretty wide variety of genres. I'm not fond of all the music or all of the lyrics, but he's very amenable to my (and even his grandma!) listening to "his" music and discussing it. Some of the stuff where I don't like the lyrics, he listens to because the composition is good; where he doesn't always like the music, the lyrics are good. And he usually has a different interpretation of the lyrics than what might be on the surface.

I prefer to have a mature discussion with my kid(s) about the things they listen to, read or watch instead of banning any of the above.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Well there is a big difference between a 12 year old and a 17 year old. Especially when the 12 yr old refuses to see there is anything wrong with lyrics about rape and murder.

Banning of certain music WILL and IS occuring in my house and I don't feel bad about it. I'd really prefer if this thread could just get back to suggestions about better music, instead of trying to make me feel bad for doing what I know is best for my DD.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I feel the same way you do for the most part. When I was growing up they bleeped out swear words on the radio and the things that are said in songs now just _weren't said._

I saw one woman in print somewhere when Madonna first came on the scene put it this way; _When I was 6 I was singing *how much is that doggie in the window. My 6 year old is singing Like a virgin.*_









I think that's extremely effed up. I choose not to play certain songs in the car because I don't feel like explaining sexual references. When they're older, we'll see.

I don't know what to tell you other than to look for the clean versions, if they exist. We don't ever watch MTV or VH1, and fortunately radio reception is non-existent here, so we _almost_ manage to control what they are exposed to except for what other children might bring onto the school bus.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
Well there is a big difference between a 12 year old and a 17 year old. Especially when the 12 yr old refuses to see there is anything wrong with lyrics about rape and murder.

Granted. However (and I was actually just coming back to add this), my boy's been listening to this sort of stuff for years. Their first concert, in fact, was GC (Good Charlotte) with Sum41 opening. At 12 & 10. So I've been in the same place. My boy composes and writes lyrics & poetry, so is always looking at what's out there with a very critical eye.

Heck - when I was 12, I was listening to "Afternoon Delight" and "Island Girl" with no clue as to what they were about. Took my brother to open my eyes.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
Banning of certain music WILL and IS occuring in my house and I don't feel bad about it. I'd really prefer if this thread could just get back to suggestions about better music, instead of trying to make me feel bad for doing what I know is best for my DD.

I don't think you should feel badly about it. We all do what we feel is best for our kids. I happen to feel it's best not to restrict my kids in their subject matter. At 12, my daughter was reading meaty books about Nazi medical experiments and the Nuremberg trials in detail. Certainly not my first choice for her. But it grabbed something in her, and we've had some very interesting discussions about ethics and where one draws lines - and why.

You may happen to feel differently. That's okay.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

I'm sorry, my comment probably came across sounding like it was directed soley to you. It wasn't meant to be.









I might not feel so strongly about the songs she listens to if I felt she was mature enough to deal with it. Sadly I don't think she is. I tried again a few minutes ago to talk to her about the music since I know she's not happy with my decision. But she's just not getting it. For example, we discussed the lyrics about beating a girl. She just ketp saying, "but it's not a big deal! So what? It's not a big deal!" Um yeah... sorry DD but it IS a big deal.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
I'm sorry, my comment probably came across sounding like it was directed soley to you. It wasn't meant to be.









I might not feel so strongly about the songs she listens to if I felt she was mature enough to deal with it. Sadly I don't think she is. I tried again a few minutes ago to talk to her about the music since I know she's not happy with my decision. But she's just not getting it. For example, we discussed the lyrics about beating a girl. She just ketp saying, "but it's not a big deal! So what? It's not a big deal!" Um yeah... sorry DD but it IS a big deal.

That kills me. I would probably just lose it and end up taking the ipod away at that point.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

Does she have someone else older in her life that she looks up to? Maybe an older cousin, or cool aunt or uncle, or a friend of the family could suggest some cool bands? I agree that coming from you any suggestions may fall on deaf ears, but coming from someone else that she already thinks is cool, the same suggestion might be just the thing.

I would have a talk with my daughter about exactly what I found objectionable in those lyrics. Other than lyrics, though, I'm wide open to whatever weird stuff anyone wants to listen to. I may not want to hear polka at midnight, but as long as it's not advocating rape and murder I can just ask her to turn it down instead of turning it off.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Yeah, I can deal with nearly any style of music, it's the lyrics I have a problem with.

Sadly we don't have anyone around here she can turn to. Well, there's my SIL that my DD likes a lot, but she lets her kids listen to stuff like that. She definitely parents a LOT different than I do. (She lets her 10 year old son and 14 year old daughter get drunk and smoke pot. She gave her boys a DVD of soft-porn because they were curious, etc. But that's all issues for another thread) So no, I don't think having DD talk to her about suggestions is a good idea.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

You can completely switch over to foriegn artists... That way no one knows what people are saying.









Ok, seriously, I think you are probably in the right on this. We don't really censor dd's music, but she's more of a leader. She only does what she wants and her taste in music is good (with the exception of her current new kids fetish, not big on boy bands here.)

To what degree was your talk with her about the music? Did you ask why it's not a big deal? Why she thinks it's ok to have music that talks about beating a girl up? If so, what was the answer?


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

She refuses to really discuss anything. Talking to her about anything like this is nearly impossible. I'll ask her questions, she rolls her eyes and just keeps repeating it's not a big deal, her friends listen to it, I must think her friends suck, at least it's not suicide, etc. And then, she zones out. ~sighs~

I do have a nice collection of Japanese music. I have no idea what they're saying, but it sounds good. I should load her MP3 player with all that.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
She refuses to really discuss anything. Talking to her about anything like this is nearly impossible. I'll ask her questions, she rolls her eyes and just keeps repeating it's not a big deal, her friends listen to it, I must think her friends suck, at least it's not suicide, etc. And then, she zones out. ~sighs~

I do have a nice collection of Japanese music. I have no idea what they're saying, but it sounds good. I should load her MP3 player with all that.









Oh dear. You do have your hands full, don't you?

So far I have at least been lucky with getting my dcs to get it when I turn it around and tell them to defend their position.

My ds has a ball dissecting silly love songs and pointing out how codependent or delusional people are. He doesn't use those terms, but he gets the point across. (His comments about _You're Beautiful_ by James Blunt and _Late Shift_ by Jacko Pierce were dead on. We'll see if he remembers them when he's 16 and hormonal.







)

I honestly don't know what you should try next.







I think it's sad anyone would think those lyrics are no big deal at her age.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Oh this is just the tip of the iceburg with what I've got going on with her. I'm SO not ready for a preteen!









I'm very concerned about her, for more reasons than just this, and am hoping to get her into counseling. But we haven't been able to afford it, not even on a sliding scale. I'm very concerned with the fact that she thinks anything is fine as long as it's not taking about suicide.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Would just an outright "No you may not listen to that" work? A bit draconian for here, but honestly, sometimes needs must.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I hear you. I am boggled every day by it.

It is so different from the way it was when I was a pre-teen. We didn't know half the things they know at the same age.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 









Would just an outright "No you may not listen to that" work? A bit draconian for here, but honestly, sometimes needs must.

That's pretty much what I've done. All those songs on the computers have been removed, none of it on her MP3 player, etc. I just wish she would understand. But she doesn't. And I do believe a lot of this is from her friends saying it's not a big deal. That's one reason why I want to give her better songs to listen to. Start leading her away from stuff like that. Until she's better prepared to know what is and isn't a "big deal".


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I hear you. I am boggled every day by it.

It is so different from the way it was when I was a pre-teen. We didn't know half the things they know at the same age.

I know!


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
She refuses to really discuss anything. Talking to her about anything like this is nearly impossible. I'll ask her questions, she rolls her eyes and just keeps repeating it's not a big deal, her friends listen to it, I must think her friends suck, at least it's not suicide, etc. And then, she zones out. ~sighs~

I do have a nice collection of Japanese music. I have no idea what they're saying, but it sounds good. I should load her MP3 player with all that.









Well in this house if you refuse to actually discuss why you want to do something that the adults don't think are appropriate, you forfit your right to give input on the matter.


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## Kanga (Nov 26, 2001)

There was an article in Mothering actually, maybe about a year ago about exactly this issue... which I see as teens and staying connected... and the author used music to do so. I think the approach might be worth a shot! You're tastes don't seem all that different, you could start by listening to an alternative rock radio station, even one online (Live 105 in SF) together. Have it on in the car or at home. Maybe you'll get some new favorites and she might too...








hang in there


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

Hmmmm... this is interesting. Part of me wants to yell "Why is she listening to that?!?!?!". Then the other side reminds me that when I was *9*, my favorite groups were 2 Live Crew and NWA. Now THOSE artists had some songs that contained quite the unsavory lyrics (yikes)! BUT, I was a good kid, I just liked really 'bad' music.

So, why does her music bother you? Is it interfering with other parts of her life?


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

The lyrics seem pretty horrendous.

I can see why you would be disappointed and concerned that she's stonewallling you on discussing them, and just saying that they're 'no big deal.'

Do keep in mind, though, that she may know perfectly well that what the lyrics are talking about IS a big deal and that violence against women isn't fine. She may just be sullen and embarrassed when it comes to discussing any of it with YOU, because you're her mother, and the prospect of having that kind of discussion just ties her in knots. She may also have felt defensive, which goaded her into taking a more radical position than she in fact believes - ie "My mom finds my music, which I and my friends like, to be incredibly offensive? Well, then, I'm going to say that there's absolutely nothing even remotely wrong with a single word in any song on my list! So there!" If this is the case, I'd maybe try to tackle opening a low-key dialogue rather than heightening her sense of being under siege.

Are there any less offensive MCR songs? My dd is a lot younger than yours. She likes Amy Winehouse, and some of her songs are not 'iPod-suitable', while others are fine.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAHDS* 
Hmmmm... this is interesting. Part of me wants to yell "Why is she listening to that?!?!?!". Then the other side reminds me that when I was *9*, my favorite groups were 2 Live Crew and NWA. Now THOSE artists had some songs that contained quite the unsavory lyrics (yikes)! BUT, I was a good kid, I just liked really 'bad' music.

So, why does her music bother you? Is it interfering with other parts of her life?

I am an abuse survivor. I was abused as a child, as a teen, as an adult. I've been stalked, and my stalker tried to kill me. Those lyrics really kinda hit home with all that. And that's why it bothers me so much that DD says they aren't a big deal. Oh, they are a big deal. Oh yes yes yes.







And yes, I do see it interfering with other parts of her life too. Her attitude has taken a major dump ever since she started listening to that music (could be the age too, but it's an awful coincidence that until she started listening to those songs she wasn't as bad), she doesn't want to study, all she reads (or wants to read) are dark depressing books, the language she uses it appalling (and I swore as a kid but I had enough sense to NOT do it around adults), etc.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammastar2* 
The lyrics seem pretty horrendous.

I can see why you would be disappointed and concerned that she's stonewallling you on discussing them, and just saying that they're 'no big deal.'

Do keep in mind, though, that she may know perfectly well that what the lyrics are talking about IS a big deal and that violence against women isn't fine. She may just be sullen and embarrassed when it comes to discussing any of it with YOU, because you're her mother, and the prospect of having that kind of discussion just ties her in knots. She may also have felt defensive, which goaded her into taking a more radical position than she in fact believes - ie "My mom finds my music, which I and my friends like, to be incredibly offensive? Well, then, I'm going to say that there's absolutely nothing even remotely wrong with a single word in any song on my list! So there!" If this is the case, I'd maybe try to tackle opening a low-key dialogue rather than heightening her sense of being under siege.

Are there any less offensive MCR songs? My dd is a lot younger than yours. She likes Amy Winehouse, and some of her songs are not 'iPod-suitable', while others are fine.

You may be right and she may just be embarrassed to talk to me about it. But unfortunately there is no way to know for sure, since she won't talk to me anymore about anything lately.

So far I've looked through a LOT of the MCR lyrics and haven't found any I'm comfortable with, but I'm still looking. I did a search last night for "christian MCR alternatives" and found some groups that she might like. I guess they're technically Christian, but their songs don't talk about God and all that, but neither do the lyrics talk about violence and all that too. So, maybe a good compromise? I hope so.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Well in this house if you refuse to actually discuss why you want to do something that the adults don't think are appropriate, you forfit your right to give input on the matter.

You're another one I'm agreeing with an awful lot lately.

Sometimes I feel like we treat them too much like adults......but then other times I'm surprised at how adult they can sound when we give them the chance to defend their positions.

But if they _won't even try?_ I agree with you, they are not mature enough to make decisions about whatever it is we're discussing at that time.


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
I am an abuse survivor. I was abused as a child, as a teen, as an adult. I've been stalked, and my stalker tried to kill me. Those lyrics really kinda hit home with all that. And that's why it bothers me so much that DD says they aren't a big deal. Oh, they are a big deal. Oh yes yes yes.







And yes, I do see it interfering with other parts of her life too. Her attitude has taken a major dump ever since she started listening to that music (could be the age too, but it's an awful coincidence that until she started listening to those songs she wasn't as bad), she doesn't want to study, all she reads (or wants to read) are dark depressing books, the language she uses it appalling (and I swore as a kid but I had enough sense to NOT do it around adults), etc.

First off, I am so sorry for what you went through.

Without sounding harsh, don't you think you're placing too much emphasis on music? Her attitude is bad, she reads dark/depressing books, she uses horrible language... and you think the music is the cause? To me, it sounds as though those things, along with the music, are all symptoms of a much bigger problem. I don't think the music caused the others, just like I don't think the books caused it or the swearing caused it. I think you need to find the root of the problem and address that instead of trying to use the music as a scapegoat. I am reminded of when Columbine happened, everyone wanted to point fingers at Marilyn Manson and Eminem. Give me a break. I guess it was easy, though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
Well in this house if you refuse to actually discuss why you want to do something that the adults don't think are appropriate, you forfit your right to give input on the matter.

Can I get an Amen?


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

We are working on the other issues, and trying to find resources here to get her into counseling for other things. But in the meantime the music has become the worst of it. She's open to suggestions on other books (though she always goes back to the dark depressing ones), but with music it's the crap or nothing, in her mind. So I have to work on what I can control while trying to find her help for the other things.

Though I do believe that music can greatly influence kids. Not all, some kids are definitely strong enough and know themselves enough to not let it overcome them. But sadly no all. And my DD is one of the ones that does let these things rule her life.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I don't think it's an overreaction.

The media, TV and music, have a big influence on our children's attitudes.

My dsd has an attachment disorder, and she has a problem separating reality from fantasy, so there are certain things that other children her age can watch on television or in movies and have no problems, but for her _there would be a problem._ There are things she just does not understand or view correctly, and sometimes the most innocent things will be misconstrued.

Something explicit could be downright dangerous in her case. Every parent has to judge for themselves what their own child can handle.

I'll give you an example: We were watching a show where the mom gave a child a vitamin and my then 6 year old dsd exclaimed 'she's going to kill him!'









Turns out, someone let her stay in the room while they were watching an adult themed show where someone killed someone else with pills.







:
She also was exposed to shows where teenaged characters jump from bed to bed. Now I'm left wondering if she thinks it's _normal_ for teenaged girls to sleep with every boy they think is cute. When someone doesn't process information in the standard manner, you worry about things like this, yk?

I don't want my dcs to think it's normal for teens to jump from bed to bed, or that if a parent hands you a pill they're trying to harm you, and I especially don't want them to think a love relationship equals violence. When music and media reflect that on a daily basis, they become numb to it and accept it as _the norm._


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
So I have to work on what I can control while trying to find her help for the other things.
(

Maybe she's listening to that kind of music because it's the thing *she* can control.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Good Christian (but not overtly so) rock!

Creed anyone!

Such a shame they ever broke up, but there were getting too much hassle from both sides. Too christian for the rock people, too rock for the christian people *sigh*


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAHDS* 
Maybe she's listening to that kind of music because it's the thing *she* can control.

That is possible. But until I know she's mature enough to handle that kind of music I just can't allow it. It just feel very wrong.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Good Christian (but not overtly so) rock!

Creed anyone!

Such a shame they ever broke up, but there were getting too much hassle from both sides. Too christian for the rock people, too rock for the christian people *sigh*

That's actually what I've been looking into. Christian alternatives for that genre. So far I've found a couple. At least I'm TOLD they're Christian. The lyrics don't mention God at all, but neither do they mention drugs, violence, etc. So, works for me.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Carp! (I meant to spell it like that too







) I was introduced to a group a while back but I can't remember who they are. I'll get back to you when I talk to the person who told me about them.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Would she be open to writing her own music?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
Would she be open to writing her own music?

That can backfire. Just ask my dad, he let me write my own music.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
Would she be open to writing her own music?

The only interest in learning about music is she wants to play guitar. But not enough that she's willing to take lessons, practice, etc. She just wants instant gratification by picking up the guitar and playing.

I wish she'd be more interested. But she just isn't.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

BTDT, we got dsd a dvd that was geared to kids, had instructions step by step showing how to tune the guitar, and teaching them to play.

It got walked on and scratched up and now the guitar has broken strings and she still can't play.

Are you sure our dds weren't separated at birth?


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
That can backfire. Just ask my dad, he let me write my own music.









DH is a composer! I know where it leads.









A friend of mine has a son who sounds a lot like your DD, and she also is concerned about influences on him; they play Guitar Hero a lot and that seems to satisfy him. I've never played it myself but she said it's brought them closer together because they play it together. Obviously, don't buy it before paying for counseling.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

I had to read you thread because I am actively thumpin' Helz yeah.









My point, I'm pretty young, so it wasn't long ago that I was listening to music just because my mom hated it , altho I "liked" slipknot and ICP. PS not music that I would ever let her listen to. They both have very low opinions of women. Holy crap, the babybean ate my brain, back to my point









She is listening to what she is because it's what her friends listen to. Sounds to me like she is in the whiney emo phase like everyone else







I

I am LOUD and here's whats on my playlist.

Jamie T <- britt rap (amazing!) did I say amazing?
MC Chris <- nerd rap
Cake <- ?? no genre for these cats, Kinda jazz.
Sci-fi wasabi <-can't remember the band name, they are a Japanese duo totally amazing.
Tool <- musical Orgy
Perfect Circle <-musical orgy
System of a Down <-political loudness!
Presidents of the United states <-silly and loud!
Dead Kennedy's <-again, silly and loud!

You need to get that girl out of the silly 12 yo friend rut that she is in. I would have to say that I would put my foot down on this one. I wouldn't spend family money on songs like that.







:

and of course the classics. Grateful dead, Doors, you get it.


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## Jennyfur (Jan 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
That's pretty much what I've done. All those songs on the computers have been removed, none of it on her MP3 player, etc. I just wish she would understand. But she doesn't. And I do believe a lot of this is from her friends saying it's not a big deal. That's one reason why I want to give her better songs to listen to. Start leading her away from stuff like that. Until she's better prepared to know what is and isn't a "big deal".









on removing the songs.

All my kids love Guitar Hero and Rock Band, and those games have introduced them to fabulous older rock music.







:

Here's some of what my 14-year-old daughter has on her iPod--lots of Chris Brown, Rihanna, Pussycat Dolls, All-American Rejects, Sara Bareilles, lots of Rush.









My 14-year-old son has Blue Oyster Cult, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Santana, Weezer, Scorpions, Green Day, Kansas, Police, Soundgarden, Foo Fighters, Duncan Sheik, Jim Boggia, Nik Kershaw, etc.

I allow my *teens* to have explicit lyrics as long as (1) they don't permit their 10-year-old sister to hear any of them, (2) they don't repeat any of the language in the house, and (3) there is no sexually violent imagery or lyrics glorifying death ("Don't Fear the Reaper" is acceptable, however







).

My 10-year-old daughter loves Eva Cassidy, Supertramp, Sting, John Mayer, Beatles, the Fray, ELO, Styx, Genesis, Queen, Journey.

My 22-year-old daughter can listen to whatever she likes.


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## mapleandmahogany (Oct 7, 2008)

nm


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Hmmm Green Day! Totally brought back memories. I was like 7 or 8 and I sooooo wanted a Green Day CD (yeah I'm a youngster) so my dad bought me one and read over the lyrics and said to me "Ok, you can listen to the CD, but not these two songs here because of the language." I though my dad was the coolest person in the world because he let me listen to Green Day even if he didn't let me listen to two of the songs!


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## Marilde (Jun 24, 2008)

I dont control to what kind of music my daughter(14) listens too, i dont want to be like own mother, but here are some sugesstions, which by the way my daughter is really into, and you cant blame the music becuase of the way she's acting either.

Try:
Poets of the Fall and MGMT, they're nice..


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