# Is it legal to refuse the part where a nurse has to carry your baby to your car?



## Wildflower (Nov 25, 2001)

This kind of upset me last time, they told me that I had to let a nurse or employee carry my newborn out of the birth center room to our car, like to verify that the baby had gone to the right family, or maybe to mkae sure had a car seat or some such? But it made me feel bad, I was so weepy and emotional post partum and didn't want strangers holding my baby. Maybe if I can't refuse it I'll just get up and leave and not let them. We're in CA--anyone know about this law, or is it even a law, maybe was just a local policy...?

Thanks!


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## NaomiMcC (Mar 22, 2007)

I have NEVER heard of that!!! How bizarre...


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

This is not CA law. When our kids were born, a hospital staff person had to accompany us out of the hospital to make sure we had a carseat for the baby and that we put the baby in said seat before driving away. That part may be the law or just a hospital policy, I'm not sure. But we didn't let them hold our baby!


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## Sassenach280 (Sep 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ledzepplon* 
This is not CA law. When our kids were born, a hospital staff person had to accompany us out of the hospital to make sure we had a carseat for the baby and that we put the baby in said seat before driving away. That part may be the law or just a hospital policy, I'm not sure. But we didn't let them hold our baby!

I'm in California, too and I agree that this is not California law. When both my kids were born, a hospital staff person wheeled me to our car while I held my baby in my arms.


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## pacificbliss (Jun 17, 2006)

We had to bring the car seat in, put the baby in it and then I held the baby in the seat while a nurse wheeled me out. They wouldn't let me walk but that was it.


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## AoifesMom (Sep 7, 2007)

nope, not a law in CA.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

http://www.boondock.org/photos/2004/DSC00338.JPG

That's me sitting in the wheelchair while my husband pulled the car up to the Patient Discharge area at UCLA Westwood Hospital in Los Angeles, California in July 2004. Donovan was in the Maya Wrap the ENTIRE time.

You can ask them why they have that policy, and if they try to tell you it's a law, ask them for a citation and when it went into effect. They'll probably be completely unable to tell you, or if they do, it will be a law about making sure you have a carseat or making sure you don't drop the baby on the way out. (That's why mom and baby have to be in a wheelchair at UCLA... if we fell over, they'd be liable ).


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## northwoods1995 (Nov 17, 2003)

Weird. When I had both of my kids a nurse did accompany us to the car to check the installation of our carseat but I carried the baby both times (oh and I walked too--no wheelchair or anything).


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## Marlet (Sep 9, 2004)

nak

we had to bring in our carseat with dd1, show we knew how to get her in, and then a nurse came out with us to make sure it was installed/fastened correctly.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

I have refused the wheel chair.

Went in after the birth of my first to get stitched up.
They had a chair for to go out in and I just point blank told them I can walk just fine thank you. End of story.


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## christifav (Nov 10, 2005)

My 1st was a hospital birth and the staff made us put our baby in the car seat _up in the mother-baby ward._ Not all infant carseats are designed to be infant carriers as well, so this policy pissed me off. If g_d forbid I have another hospital birth, you bet that baby will be in a wrap until we get to the car. If they want to verify that we use a car seat,, fine, but they will have to come down to the car to do that.

Oh, and I walked while I carried my newborn in the infant carrier/car seat.


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## zjande (Nov 4, 2002)

I've had 3 babies in CA. The 1st was 16 yrs ago & they carried the baby out & watched me install the car seat & everything. But the 2nd & the 3rd, both many years later, they just had me bring the car seat into the hospital & put the baby in it, then I walked out while the baby's dad carried the seat. No nurse was involved those times. I just assumed it was some old thing they used to do, like enemas during labor.














I guess you can just call your hospital & ask!


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## mama_y_sol (May 23, 2007)

Quote:

When our kids were born, a hospital staff person had to accompany us out of the hospital to make sure we had a carseat for the baby and that we put the baby in said seat before driving away. That part may be the law or just a hospital policy, I'm not sure.
This was my experience with dd, we had the nurse accompany us to the car to check that we had a carseat for dd. I think you are totally in the right to feel the way you do about a nurse carrying your baby. I would definetly refuse...


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## Lizzie9984 (Sep 27, 2007)

I've heard that here in FL they can't release the baby unless they're in a car seat. I don't know if that's an actual LAW or not, but it still freakin' makes me mad---We don't own a car, and didn't plan on getting a car seat right away anyway, as we take the city bus and planned on just getting a good stroller for outings. Now, we're trying to find a car seat just incase someone gets a case of the a** about the car seat issue....
Does anyone actually know if that's the case down here? Do we have to have a car seat to have the baby discharged??? It's the most asinine thing I've ever heard, but considering it's FL, I wouldn't doubt it if it's true.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

I don't think they can refuse to let your baby go home if you're taking the bus. We never had an infant carseat, just a convertible one, and no one watched us put our children in them, so I don't know how they would know we even had one. It isn't law that you have to buy a carseat, just that you use one if you get into a car. I'd not worry about it at all.

I do want to know where you live that public transportation is so nice! Here in Central Florida, the buses are scant and unreliable.


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## Lizzie9984 (Sep 27, 2007)

I'm in west central FL on the water, and I've got to admit, the public bus system here has improved BIG TIME over the last 6 or 7 years, more routes, better timed schedules, better buses, lol. My county's slowly transitioning to hybrid buses, and rebuilding a few major transfer stations at the same time. It's come a *long* way, and I think that has something to do with the passenger number skyrocketing steadily (more $$ coming in)


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

That is lovely! I wish they would here! But I don't think enough people use it for it to be useful, you know?

I'm in the Lakeland area, are you close? And if you need some care providers names, let me know!


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## Lizzie9984 (Sep 27, 2007)

I'm in the far south Tampa Bay area, which would technically be close, but not very---Still a bit of a distance


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## Ackray (Feb 11, 2004)

Where I work, we HAVE to walk the patient to their car and make sure that the car seat is properly installed before they can go. You would be amazed at how many people do this completely wrong. I usually let the dad or another family member carry the baby in it's carseat. We rarely have babies who don't have bucket seats. We ask that the parents bring the bucket seat up to maternity on the day of discharge. The nurse makes sure that the seat is properly put together and that the straps are at the right level. We secure the baby in the seat while teaching the parents how to do it. Like I said we HAVE to bring the patient to the car. I've worked in med/surge here too and we HAD to bring those patients to their cars at discharge too. I usually don't let the mom carry the baby but I usually don't carry the baby either. Oh and we hardly ever wheel the mom out in a wheelchair, if she can't walk, maybe she shouldn't be going home.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
Where I work, we HAVE to walk the patient to their car and make sure that the car seat is properly installed before they can go. You would be amazed at how many people do this completely wrong. I usually let the dad or another family member carry the baby in it's carseat. We rarely have babies who don't have bucket seats. We ask that the parents bring the bucket seat up to maternity on the day of discharge. The nurse makes sure that the seat is properly put together and that the straps are at the right level. We secure the baby in the seat while teaching the parents how to do it. Like I said we HAVE to bring the patient to the car. I've worked in med/surge here too and we HAD to bring those patients to their cars at discharge too. I usually don't let the mom carry the baby but I usually don't carry the baby either. Oh and we hardly ever wheel the mom out in a wheelchair, if she can't walk, maybe she shouldn't be going home.

Stephanie, what would happen if the mother was riding public transportation home? How would you handle that?


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## Lizzie9984 (Sep 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlyboys* 
Stephanie, what would happen if the mother was riding public transportation home? How would you handle that?

Excellent question, I'm wondering that myself .


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## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

I know there are laws that require them to be sure the babe goes into a carseat if you are getting in a car, but I've never seen one that requires the carseat be brought inside. That would be a hospital policy not a law. You are not obligated to follow hospital policy.

I had surgery 2 times this year and both times the hospital tried to force me to get in a wheel chair to go to my car. I have horrible motion sickness and riding in a wheel chair triggers it so I simply refused. I just stated that I would be walking and they were welcome to accompany if they wanted. They could even be pushing a wheelchair, but there was no way I was getting in it. I didn't argue, just stated the facts and did it. (I also insisted on walking into surgery instead of being wheeled on a gurney.) They can't hold you prisoner. So just tell them you will be carrying the baby and they can come with you to check the carseat if they want.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I walked and held the baby when I had a hospital birth. My husband brought the car seat up for them to look at.

When my mom had my sister, she walked home.


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## Ackray (Feb 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlyboys* 
Stephanie, what would happen if the mother was riding public transportation home? How would you handle that?

We don't have public transportation here. So, I don't know what they would do at a hospital in a place that does have public transportation. Interesting. I think I might have to contact another hospital and find out. I have put people in cabs before though. They have to have carseats but it's OK if it's a borrowed one. And we don't allow people to walk home.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
We don't have public transportation here. So, I don't know what they would do at a hospital in a place that does have public transportation. Interesting. I think I might have to contact another hospital and find out. I have put people in cabs before though. They have to have carseats but it's OK if it's a borrowed one. And we don't allow people to walk home.

Well, that's interesting. What would happen if they chose to walk home? How do you "not allow" them to?


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## Ackray (Feb 11, 2004)

I've never had a problem with the patient not accepting that that they can't walk home. And I haven't heard of any of the other nurses having this problem. I guess we'd call social services and security if the patient was being "unreasonable" about this and figure out a way with the patient how they were going to get home. We wouldn't let the patient leave until they had a safe way to get home. I really don't think we have ever had this kind of situation though. We live in a strange place. It's a very small unique community. There aren't any side walks on the streets surrounding hospital so it would be unsafe to walk.

I live 0.2 miles away from the hospital and I wouldn't walk with my kids to the hospital.


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## Lizzie9984 (Sep 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
And we don't allow people to walk home.

Why on earth not??? If I lived a few minutes' walk from a hospital, I'd be more likely to just walk it instead getting a ride of any kind....That really boggles my mind there, how can one justify interferring with what someone does off hospital property? I can see not wanting someone to walk a few MILES with a new baby, but come on, a few blocks?? Is it really that big of an issue?

EDIT: Saw you responded before I did. I see your point, but still disagree with it to an extent, especially with calling SS or security.


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

I'm in NY and a nurse comes with you to the car to ensure the carseat is in place. They do ask mom to ride to the car (mom carries babe, nurse carries everything else!) since it's hospital policy. You can say no of course and they don't push it, but personally I liked the ride since I knew it would be my last chance to "relax" before my toddler took over.









There is public trans at this hospital (we have the hybrid buses too) and they ask that you have a carrier for a newborn (bucket or cloth) that will ensure your infant's relative safety on the bus.

ETA- actually, this hospital doens't allow anyone to "carry" a baby in the hallways. You can do what you like in your room but parents as well as staff need to either push the babe in the protable bassinet or carry them while riding in chair if they want to take the babe out into the hospital halls. I think one of the nurses said it was an insurance liability issue as well as a security issue (though they do have the baby lo-jack







)


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## misskerri (Aug 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wombatclay* 
ETA- actually, this hospital doens't allow anyone to "carry" a baby in the hallways. You can do what you like in your room but parents as well as staff need to either push the babe in the protable bassinet or carry them while riding in chair if they want to take the babe out into the hospital halls. I think one of the nurses said it was an insurance liability issue as well as a security issue (though they do have the baby lo-jack







)

Same thing here. No carrying the baby in the halls.

On my way out of the hospital, they wheeled me in a wheelchair while my husband pulled the car out front, and I had the baby in my arms.


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## s_kristina (Aug 9, 2004)

In both FL and LA I had to be in a wheelchair on the way out and it didn't bother me at all. In LA (Louisiana) they wanted to see the car seat in the room to make sure it was OK for baby. In FL they just wanted to see it in the car. Although we might have gotten a different answer here in FL if the IBCLC on staff hadn't taken us out to the truck. She had been enjoying chatting with a tandem/EN/CLW mom and knew I just wanted to get home so I could be comfortable.

Also when ds was readmitted to the same hospital at 1 month old due to breathing issues he had to be either held in while someone sat in a wheelchair or in the basinet while going for tests. It's a liability issue for the hospitals. I'm sure if I got motion sickness I could have refused. It's a really nice hospital where one of the nurses suggested I cosleep to keep ds comfortable in a strange place.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
I've never had a problem with the patient not accepting that that they can't walk home. And I haven't heard of any of the other nurses having this problem. I guess we'd call social services and security if the patient was being "unreasonable" about this and figure out a way with the patient how they were going to get home. We wouldn't let the patient leave until they had a safe way to get home. I really don't think we have ever had this kind of situation though. We live in a strange place. It's a very small unique community. There aren't any side walks on the streets surrounding hospital so it would be unsafe to walk.

I live 0.2 miles away from the hospital and I wouldn't walk with my kids to the hospital.

Yikes. I don't think it should be the hospital's business what you do when you are out the doors.


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## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
I've never had a problem with the patient not accepting that that they can't walk home. And I haven't heard of any of the other nurses having this problem. I guess we'd call social services and security if the patient was being "unreasonable" about this and figure out a way with the patient how they were going to get home. We wouldn't let the patient leave until they had a safe way to get home. I really don't think we have ever had this kind of situation though. We live in a strange place. It's a very small unique community. There aren't any side walks on the streets surrounding hospital so it would be unsafe to walk.

I live 0.2 miles away from the hospital and I wouldn't walk with my kids to the hospital.

This seems really wrong to me, sidewalks or no. I don't think the hospital should be restricting my mode of transportation or freedom of movement, or holding my baby hostage and calling CPS on me if I want to walk home.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

They couldn't have cared less. We did have to use a wheelchair, thogh. They didn't care if we had a carseat - I guess they asked, but no one looked or anything.

No nurse helped us to our car.


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## Marlet (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
Where I work, we HAVE to walk the patient to their car and make sure that the car seat is properly installed before they can go. You would be amazed at how many people do this completely wrong. I usually let the dad or another family member carry the baby in it's carseat. We rarely have babies who don't have bucket seats. We ask that the parents bring the bucket seat up to maternity on the day of discharge. The nurse makes sure that the seat is properly put together and that the straps are at the right level. We secure the baby in the seat while teaching the parents how to do it. Like I said we HAVE to bring the patient to the car. I've worked in med/surge here too and we HAD to bring those patients to their cars at discharge too. I usually don't let the mom carry the baby but I usually don't carry the baby either. Oh and we hardly ever wheel the mom out in a wheelchair, if she can't walk, maybe she shouldn't be going home.


Why don't you let the mom carry the baby?

With DD1 we had to bring the carseat up to the room, put her in, and carry her down and out in it. The nurse didn't put her in or carry her. That was our job and we got to choose who carried her down.


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## Nate'sMama (Jul 21, 2007)

My hospital let me walk out on my own with no wheelchair with the baby - after a cesarean. I'm pretty sure they don't care too much - at least mine didn't!


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## eksmom (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wombatclay* 
ETA- actually, this hospital doens't allow anyone to "carry" a baby in the hallways. You can do what you like in your room but parents as well as staff need to either push the babe in the protable bassinet or carry them while riding in chair if they want to take the babe out into the hospital halls. I think one of the nurses said it was an insurance liability issue as well as a security issue (though they do have the baby lo-jack







)

This was the policy at the hospital where DD was born. They encouraged us to take her for a walk in the hallways, so we did what any normal parent would do - my DH picked her up and held her and we went for a walk. You would have thought we'd committed a felony... the nurses got all freaked out and we were told that we had to have her in the bassinet, we could not hold her and walk the halls in case we fell.

Then when we left, we had to bring the bucket up, strap her in, and then the nurses had to carry her out while the rest of us (me, DH, and my mom) walked behind. I felt like a total idiot. I'm surprised they let us go home with her because they seemed convinced she wouldn't make it in our care.









I'm hoping I don't run into the same nonsense where we live now; it was really insulting at a time when you've already got enough going on emotionally/hormonally.


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

I have to b honest here- all these 'haves' shoulds' and especially 'lets' make me want to uke

Whatever happened to _'women's bodies, women's choice'_? This is exactly why I steer myself very clear of the medical industry- it's so backward in so many ways and that I would be told what I can and should and have to with regard to _my_ birth experience is just baffling and highly insulting. If I were incapacitated and had nobody to speak on my behalf, then it would be a differnt issue, but as long as I am capable of communication and it remains my body and my baby, I think it's an assault and violation for anyone to _assume_ themselves my authority and to make decisions and requirements from that perspective.

Our first two boys were hospital babes and I was not a popular mama in the hospy, let me tell you. I don't go in for white coat syndrome either though, which seems to be quite an obstacle for many 'credentialled' staff...

There is NO WAY I would LET a hospital staff take or even touch my baby unless I chose to. Even for weighing and measuring, dh held our babes and we NEVER _LET_ any nurse or other hold our babes without our presence and consent. I also walked out after my first c/s, though I accepted the wheelchair for c/s #2 because I left 12 hours following and didn't feel well enough to walk all the way to the car (BUT it was my CHOICE to go home when I did and it was far better for me to recover in the safety and comfort of my own home where nobody was waking me every hour to take my blood and temperature, and where I could obtain adequate nutrition).

_'Let'_...









I won't even get into the philosophical ramifications and overt tyranny that the language I have mentioned implies... Maybe another thread for that.


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreggieUBA2C* 
There is NO WAY I would LET a hospital staff take or even touch my baby unless I chose to.

Yeah, cause it just *that simple*


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## Ackray (Feb 11, 2004)

My hospital is actually VERY layed back about just about everything besides the discharge stuff. Part of bringing a patient to the car and making sure they are safely secured inside it is so the patient can/will leave the hospital grounds in a safe condition, for liability issues. Obviously, I'm not going to walk my patient and their baby to the edge of the hospital property and wave at them as they walk out into a busy curvy road with no sidewalks. I'm sure you can all understand this.

I'm not sure why we don't let the mom hold the baby/baby carrier. And honestly in my 8 years at this hospital, no mother has ever asked me if they could carry the baby so it's never come up.

You have to pick and choose your battles. Something as minor as the nurse wanting you and your baby to safely get to your car and be secured properly inside, per hospital policy, doesn't seem fight-worthy to me.


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## eksmom (Jun 29, 2004)

We asked, and we were told that we couldn't carry her out, that it had to be a nurse. And honestly all of the restrictions didn't feel minor to me. Again, maybe it was the hormones, but I felt like all of the rules were saying to me that I had no clue how to take care of a baby. Especially as a first-time mama, that was not what I wanted or needed to hear.

(We also got the nurses all upset when we stripped DD to her diaper after she had not nursed in 5 hours and wouldn't wake up. They rushed into the room and said, "Don't you know you have to keep that baby warm?" And I was thinking, "Don't you know she needs to nurse more often than every 5 hours?" We weren't even trying to be disagreeable, it just seemed we couldn't do anything right in their eyes.)


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yeah it isn't minor to me either.

I'm glad the hospital where I transferred with my first isn't like that.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

at my daughter's birth, they said it was about liability. I couldn't carry my baby anywhere but in the hospital room. if i was going to hold her going out to the car, then i had to ride in a wheelchair. if i dropped her or fell while holding her, the hospital said they'd be liable. like a nurse is more stable than i am.

bah! another reason why homebirth is better!


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## hapersmion (Jan 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pamamidwife* 
at my daughter's birth, they said it was about liability. I couldn't carry my baby anywhere but in the hospital room. if i was going to hold her going out to the car, then i had to ride in a wheelchair. if i dropped her or fell while holding her, the hospital said they'd be liable. like a nurse is more stable than i am.

bah! another reason why homebirth is better!









I would be rather tempted if they said that to ask them who's liable if the nurse drops the baby. And mention that I would sooo sue them. Then see who got to hold the baby... But that wouldn't be very nice, I suppose.









Hopefully I'll never have to worry about it.


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2bluefish* 
Yeah, cause it just *that simple*









I know it's not always or even often that mamas wishes are respected in hospitals (I've had enough experience to demonstrate that), but in terms of 'letting,' the _permission_ comes from _me,_ not the other way around. Then, actions without my consent are reasonably understood to be _violations_ of my consent- which they are. So, whether or not I give permission is as simple as my decision; whether or not my decision is respected may not be. It took a very, very adamant husband (who was willing to physically restrain beligerent staff and/or walk out with babe if necessary) and midwife to keep our children from harm in the hospital. I am not saying it is _easy_!!!

My contention was with the tyrannous language used in this thread by both those who perpetuate it and those who have been abused by it- not at all mamas whose wishes were violated. I expressed some of my philosophical objection to the medical industry's view and assumed authority over human beings they choose to call 'patients' and treat likewise instead of human beings who come to them for consultation, service and equal status as beings and ultimate decision-making power over their own lives. I have met one doctor in my whole life who acts according to this wholistic view, who sees herself as another human being in consultation with those who come to her practice. I am confident that even knowing _one_ dr like that is extremely rare, sadly.


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## Artichokie (Jun 19, 2007)

Unless I deem it necessary, I will refuse to ride in a wheelchair.

If they tell me I have to bring the car seat up to the room and carry the baby down in it, I will laugh in their faces. We are using a convertible seat, and there is no way in Hades that we are hauling that thing up to the 16th floor and then carrying it down and attaching it into the car with a baby inside.


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

I agree with UBA2C that the language is very disturbing.

Right now in my area, if you don't want to be treated like a subservient being you have to have a homebirth. So for all of those people who need to be in the hospital (for whatever reason) they must be subjected to this kind of behaviour.

Let's face it, hospitals are set up for their own convenience, profit and ease of operation, they are not set up to give people good emotional experiences. And if I had a TRUE medical emergency, I surely would want them to be moving with the greatest of efficiency so I may let some things slide.

But, wait, most women who are at the hospital for their births are not in medical emergencies, they are just going through a normal physiological process. So why are their emotional (and oftentimes physical) needs completely disregarded??? Well, there is a long history involved in that but as long as women are buying into the system, it most likely will not change.

As UBA2C so rightly points out, we do have a RIGHT to informed consent and we are consumers!! We are the customers, not the dogs.

And I do want to add that it is nice to be taken care when you have just had a baby. And we modern women are not accustomed to be being taken care of the way we should be after birth. Yes, most of us can get up and walk after birth, but we shouldn't have to. I'm all for people babying moms!!! I think it's ideal for this to occur in her own home where she will most often feel more comfortable. In an ideal world we should all be holding our babies and not be required to do much walking after birth.

But I find it highly offensive that an institution would presume to impose upon women such ridiculous restrictions as not allowing her to carry her own newborn to the car or in the hallways or to walk home if she chooses to.


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

hmm, i've never heard of that before. my dh carried our little one to the car. i even asked if i had to ride out in a wheelchair and they laughed at me and said they didn't do that anymore


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
Oh and we hardly ever wheel the mom out in a wheelchair, if she can't walk, maybe she shouldn't be going home.

I've never been released from a hospital or been there when anyone else was released from a hospital where they didn't wheel you out, no matter WHAT condition you were in. I mean, if you walked into the ER and walked out without being admitted, then no wheelchair... but every surgery I've ever had (two on my knee, one gynecological, one cesarean), plus when my mom was released from the hospital after each of her breast-cancer-related surgeries (9 of them), when my cousin was released after both of her cancer-related surgeries, and when my father was released after a battle with congestive heart failure... EVERY SINGLE TIME, they used a wheelchair. And my first three surgeries were outpatient. It's all about liability; they're still responsible for you until you are in your own car or off hospital property. I've never wanted to refuse or known anyone who did, so I don't know what they'd say.

BTW, my various experiences include at least four different area hospitals... one Kaiser facility (3 occasions), one university hospital (two occasions), one private hospital owned by monstrous hospital corporation that gets sued right and left for good reason (2 occasions), and one private hospital frequented by celebrities and other rich folks (9 occasions). All were in Los Angeles County.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eksmom* 
This was the policy at the hospital where DD was born. They encouraged us to take her for a walk in the hallways, so we did what any normal parent would do - my DH picked her up and held her and we went for a walk. You would have thought we'd committed a felony... the nurses got all freaked out and we were told that we had to have her in the bassinet, we could not hold her and walk the halls in case we fell.

Our hospital had the same policy, but didn't ever try to tell us it was a liability issue. Instead, it was part of their security system. All the parents were instructed that the babies have to be in the bassinet anytime they're out of the hospital room; all the nurses, doctors, whoever know this... so whoever DOESN'T know it, and is seen carrying a baby in arms down the hall, is suspected of baby-napping. They had the Lo-jack thing on DS's ankle, too, but by the third day it was slipping right off because he'd lost so much of his IV fluid bloat.

Come to think of it, the wheelchair may be part of the same security system, since they don't exactly want you taking the bassinet home with you ;-).


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

oops....double post


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

I know at our hospital we have to escort the mother and baby down to make sure the parents have a car seat. Though it is against hospital policy for the nurses to put the baby in the car seat or install the car seats. (liability issues) If I see something obviously wrong though...I can´t in good conscience NOT say something and help them correct it.

It´s also policy that either the nurse carries the baby down or that the baby be in moms arms and wheeled down. I figure I can trip and drop a baby just as easily as anyone...so I usually encourage mom to just carry the baby and be wheeled down. I´ve never really had anyone refuse.

Should someone refuse and want to walk...I honestly don´t have the time and patience to sit there and argue with them about hospital policy. When it comes down to it...itś their kid and you can´t keep them there...and really I think CPS and social services have better things to deal with. These stupid policies are in place because something happened at some point in time and someone sued. All I can do is document what happened the best I can. Itś not to cast the parents in a bad light...but to protect myself.

Worse case...If a mother, father whoever wanted to carry their baby down and tripped fell and dropped the baby then tried to sue...I would have documentation to cover myself. If I´m walking with the baby and drop it...I´m screwed. So I would just rather not carry your baby. If your baby is going to be dropped...it will most definitely not be me that did it. All the nurse can do in that sort of situation is document, document, document...unfortunately we are bounded to stupid policies and CYA mentalities. It makes me really hate nursing sometimes. It just seems to me that the hospital would be in more trouble if a nurse dropped the baby rather than the mother. Especially if the mother was the one that insisted she walk. I don´t see why itś okay for the nurse to carry the baby...but the mother needs to be in a chair.

Ideally a mother should be allowed to carry her baby down however she sees fit...but should she fall and drop the child...should the hospital be liable for that? (assuming itś not due to a safety issue, like wet floors or something like that?)

And to answer the OP...No this isn´t a state law...more than likely it is a hospital policy. You can refuse.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

The wheelchair thing bugs me. They're fine and dandy if you NEED them but if you can walk just fine? What's the point of them?

When I went into labor I walked into the ER, and had to wait for about ten or fifteen minutes until I managed to get the attention of the admitting nurse. I told her I was there for L&D, and she asked if I was related to the patient. I was confused and told her *I* was the one in labor. At that point she didn't even realize I was in labor, but as soon as she did, she panicked and ordered me into a wheelchair. Umm, if you can't even TELL I'm in labor, don't you think I'm capable of walking to the elevator myself? Especially when I just walked several blocks from your parking lot?! There is no way anyone could have gotten me to sit in a wheelchair on the way out either, as I felt fine. But when I was transferred from one hospital wing (the birth center) to another (maternity) minutes after giving birth, well then yeah, I accepted the ride. On the other hand, when I was in transition and with back to back contractions, I managed the same walk just fine with no wheelchair.

I think a wheelchair, personally, is demeaning and humiliating unless you really need it. That's just my opinion, but hey, I think I have a right to my opinion.









I remember DH carried the baby in the bucket seat; I would have been fine carrying the baby by himself but the heavy seat and awkward angle would have been too much. Honestly I don't remember fighting them on the issue, nor do I remember anyone pushing it. I think a nurse suggested we bring the car seat up, but I don't remember anyone saying it was the policy. No one checked to make sure we got in the car OK. I remember feeling like we were stealing the baby, I kept thinking someone was going to come after us and tell us we couldn't leave.







It felt so strange to be walking out of there.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yeah the wheelchair thing really really bugs me too.

I have been in the hospital many times, and the only time I've been wheeled out is when I had abdominal surgery and had trouble walking. Any other issue and I walked out. My husband had nasal surgery and walked out.

I don't see why a hospital would insist on a wheelchair to leave, but one can walk around before they leave. Even when I had abdominal surgery, I could walk around, etc, but it was difficult.

truemists reminded me- when I had my first baby in the hospital, no one even walked us out. We checked out at the nurse's station, and that was all.


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

My big issue with the wheelchair is that it's used for moms who have just given birth.....there is nothing wrong with you....you just had a baby but you're not sick or recovering from major surgery (except for C-sections) so why are you treated like you are??

I suppose if they treated pregnancy and birth like it is a normal healthy process throughout the whole experience then the wheelchair would seem dumb but since they treat you like you are sick and the baby needs to be rescued from your body the wheelchair fits right in. That to me is very demeaning!


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

:


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jimibell* 
I suppose if they treated pregnancy and birth like it is a normal healthy process throughout the whole experience then the wheelchair would seem dumb but since they treat you like you are sick and the baby needs to be rescued from your body the wheelchair fits right in. That to me is very demeaning!

I agree with that. When I took my little ride in the wheelchair in-hospital though I was glad for it because I was VERY tired. More than tired. I felt like I was on drugs. (Wasn't.) I just felt like I wasn't even really in control of my body yet. Apparently it was several hours after giving birth but I was still totally in a trance. I think they put the baby in my lap but I honestly don't even remember that...







:


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## Korimomto2 (May 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wildflower* 
This kind of upset me last time, they told me that I had to let a nurse or employee carry my newborn out of the birth center room to our car, like to verify that the baby had gone to the right family, or maybe to mkae sure had a car seat or some such?

I've never heard of such a think!! I had a hospital birth and a birth center birth and neither happened. I *did* have to take a wheelchair to the door in the hospital, but that is SOP with all hospitals with all patients afaik. They insisted that *I* carry my baby though (not like I was arguing,







)


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## Korimomto2 (May 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *truemists* 
The wheelchair thing bugs me. They're fine and dandy if you NEED them but if you can walk just fine? What's the point of them?

I always thought it was a liability issue...like if you trip on your way down the hall you can sue the hospital. It never bothered me.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Korimomto2* 
I've never heard of such a think!! I had a hospital birth and a birth center birth and neither happened. I *did* have to take a wheelchair to the door in the hospital, but that is SOP with all hospitals with all patients afaik. They insisted that *I* carry my baby though (not like I was arguing,







)

That's not policy at the hospitals here either.


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

Dd # 1 was born in a hospital but nurses were so busy with other births they ignored us walking to car, carrying our own baby. I have no idea if that was allowed or not.


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## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

I think its important to reiterate that everyone is saying it is often hosptial POLICY to use a wheelchair or to have a nurse carry baby in a carseat, but not being an employee of the hospital, you are not obligated to follow hospital policy, especially if you are on your way out the door. If it bothers you then don't agree to it.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

That's weird.

We had a nurse come out with us to the car (to make sure we had a car seat installed roughly correctly), but she certainly didn't carry the baby.

They did, repeatedly, offer me a wheelchair, which I declined. I mean, if I couldn't walk out to the car, how the heck am I going to get up the three flights of stairs to my apartment?


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## ThatCrazyLady (Jul 7, 2006)

With DD2 (a year and a half ago) they insisted on wheelchair to the door. I'd been fighting them on so much else, and was officially leaving AMA (due to chosen pediatrician's partner being on duty and lying to me about orders he'd write), I was ok with that. The nurse told us she had to come see the carseat (convertible, already properly installed and checked by carseat tech). She used the opportunity of being outside to suggest that perhaps next time I should opt for a homebirth since I wanted to turn down so many of their lovely services! I've since wondered whether she didn't feel safe saying that inside--she didn't seem judgmental through the process of us refusing interventions and causing her to probably need to file a dozen additional forms.

ETA: Oh, I carried the baby (almost forgot that was the topic!)


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## ericswifey27 (Feb 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hapersmion* 
*I would be rather tempted if they said that to ask them who's liable if the nurse drops the baby.* And mention that I would sooo sue them. Then see who got to hold the baby... But that wouldn't be very nice, I suppose.









Hopefully I'll never have to worry about it.









LMAO.







Two can play that game, huh?

I was so agreeable with my first (hospital) birth but god forbid I end up in one again, things are going down so differently.







I'll just have to make sure I'm not at Ackray's hospy or I'll get CPS following me







:


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Thought y'all might enjoy a link re: wheelchairs from one of my favorite anthropologists, Robbie Davis-Floyd


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Thanks for that link. I am tired of people acting like my objection to wheelchairs is unreasonable.


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## s_kristina (Aug 9, 2004)

I was offered a wheelchair on the way in with both kids, but nobody cared when I turned it down. Every time I've been released from a hospital for surgery to treatment for an asthma attack they wheeled me out. It's just hospital policy and they are used to dealing with sick people. Thanks to the condition I was in both times after birth I was happy to have the wheel chair. I anticipate I will be equally happy to have a wheelchair again in April. I don't have ordinary simple pregnancies or deliveries though. If I was that lucky I wouldn't be having my baby in a hospital that's for sure! I firmly believe most women should not be in a hospital when having a baby and then they wouldn't have to deal with silly things. For women that do need hospital services being able to go to a small community owned and certified baby friendly hospital is a good way to go in my experience.


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## Sonya77 (Feb 20, 2007)

We brought the bucket seat up, just because we felt it was easier to put her in it in the hospital than trying to maneuver her into it in the truck. I did get the wheelchair ride, and when DH picked the carrier up, the nurse said "oh no, mama has to carry the baby." So I get this heavy seat on my lap (glad I didn't have a c-section) while being wheeled out to the car. The nurse didn't look to see if anything was installed properly...which, after 4 days, I realized it wasn't!!! I'm just glad we had no accidents!


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

On the car seat issue...We aren´t allowed to install them or put the baby in the seat. If I see something grossly wrong, then I will say something. I´ll check for basic things...is it tight enough, is it rear facing, too loose ect...but really it´s the parents responsibility to make sure their childs car seat is installed correctly. Again the reasoning being...if the parents get into an accident, they may try to sue and blame the nurse for putting the car seat in incorrectly if the baby gets hurt. Sad but true.

Before I had a child I had NO idea how to install a carseat, and it is not something they teach us at work. In fact on my way home from the hospital after having MY child...we realized we had put her in wrong! Some hospitals do...some have certified carseat technicians/inspectors on site (that would be nice)


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## ~pi (May 4, 2005)

We took public transportation home from the hospital after having DS -- the streetcar goes right past the hospital and continues along to the bottom of our street.

During my time on the maternity ward, I had noticed carseats being checked, so I assume that if you are taking the baby in a carseat, they want to see it and double-check that the straps are placed correctly, but no one said a word when we left with DS in a pouch.


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## cravenab00 (May 25, 2005)

"pick your battles"????? WTF???

NOTHING about having your baby should be a BATTLE!

this is exactly why i stay away from anything medical. when I had DD in a hosp, they acted like it was THEIR baby, and they told me what I could and couldnt do with her.

I remember being in nursing school, and the hospital i did clinicals at on the OB floor, this nurse started yelling at teh grandma who was walking with a fussy baby in the hallway. Apparently, NO ONE can carry a baby around in teh hospital. Baby has to be in the stupid plastic bassinet thing, or in the carseats.

its really sad that in this country, a hospitals first priority is liability, then, it is money, then it is the patients.


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## apmomof5 (Jan 27, 2004)

My guess is they said something like they legally have to do that. They didn't mean by state law. They meant that their legal department has made this a policy to protect them from law suits. What likely happened is, something happened to a baby..maybe mom dropped it or something, and so this policy was enacted. You are well within your rights to refuse to allow them to carry your baby. Tell them you will sign a wavier if they need, to cover themselves, but you will be carrying your baby.

Keep in mind, that OB is the most sued field of medicine. It costs hospitals millions every year. So, while you have your rights, be sensitive to their policies. Now, I don't mean you should do all they say. What I mean is, understand they have these policies for a reason, and respect that. But, you can respectfully refuse any of them. Asking to sign a wavier lets them know you understand there is a liability issue there for them and you are happy to help cover that.


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## apmomof5 (Jan 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sonya77* 
We brought the bucket seat up, just because we felt it was easier to put her in it in the hospital than trying to maneuver her into it in the truck. I did get the wheelchair ride, and when DH picked the carrier up, the nurse said "oh no, mama has to carry the baby." So I get this heavy seat on my lap (glad I didn't have a c-section) while being wheeled out to the car. The nurse didn't look to see if anything was installed properly...which, after 4 days, I realized it wasn't!!! I'm just glad we had no accidents!

You carrying baby has to do with the policy of wheeling out every patient. That baby is a patient, too, and so must go out in a wheelchair, per policy. As for not checking the car seat - if they are not certified to do so, and most nurses aren't, then they have no business checking. After car seating 6 kids, I'm fully aware of all the do's and don't's of car seats. However, if I check someone over and say it looks good, but make a mistake, and you have an accident on the way home, the hospital can be sued. I often helped parents anyway, but it was at risk to the hospital and my job.


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cravenab00* 
"pick your battles"????? WTF???

NOTHING about having your baby should be a BATTLE!

this is exactly why i stay away from anything medical. when I had DD in a hosp, they acted like it was THEIR baby, and they told me what I could and couldnt do with her.

*I remember being in nursing school, and the hospital i did clinicals at on the OB floor, this nurse started yelling at teh grandma who was walking with a fussy baby in the hallway. Apparently, NO ONE can carry a baby around in teh hospital. Baby has to be in the stupid plastic bassinet thing, or in the carseats.*

its really sad that in this country, a hospitals first priority is liability, then, it is money, then it is the patients.

This is for SECURITY REASONS. Walk around with the baby in arms all you want in YOUR ROOM. Outside of the room, yes it does need to be in a bassinet. Sorry, but unfortuanately, the reality is people DO take babies. It doesn´t happen often but it does happen. Those rules along with the ¨stupid ankle bracelets¨ aren´t put in place to demean the parents and hold your baby ¨hostage.¨

I wish most people were as well intentioned as the people here. People that want to go to the hospital and just have thier babies in peace and with dignity. Don´t get me wrong...I hate the these stupid policies. I wish we didn´t have to have them. And some of them are unnecessary...but I can understand the one about carrying babies in the hallway. I don´t think it´s necessary to yell and be rude to the visitors over it though. I try to explain why it´s that way instead of just ¨You can´t do that...itś policy¨


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I could walk around with my baby in the hall. There was no room in my room to walk.


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

But not all hospitals ¨allow¨ that. Ours happen to have pretty big rooms. Our hospital as a whole is soo afraid of getting sued it´s not even funny. I hate it. I try to opperate with common sense though. There are some nurses that just blindly follow policy no matter what. I do follow policies as well but some things just aren´t worth arguing about (hats after birth for example....or insisting that certain tests are the law and MUST be done when the parents are well within their rights to refuse). When I become so afraid of being sued that I force a baby to wear a hat...then I need to go find another job.

In the case of carrying the baby in the hallway though...that is something I will point out if I see it though. I certainly won´t yell at a person about it or be rude or immediately call security if the person is obviously innocent. But there have been a few threats of infant abduction often by the babies own parents or relatives (dads who were abusive and mom stated she did NOT want him up there...mothers that were clearly unfit and were not going to be getting their infants, threatning to leave with them...yes they do exist). These cases are not that common but they do happen.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I understand the reason why. I just don't understand why it is any less of a risk if the baby is in the bassinette or car seat/


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Weird law . .

With dd1 we just walked out with her. With dd2 I was wheeled to the car and the nurse made sure she was put in a carseat. That was it.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

I had a fussy baby in the hospital, so I pulled hte rocking chair over to the window so I could at least look out the window....the little baby lojack on his bellybutton set the alarms off because I was too close to the window


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

Here is the full site regarding how certain procedures affect the birthing process and the people involved (that's an understatement...):

http://www.birthpsychology.com/messa.../symbolic.html

The part about wheelchairs was posted already, but this has more information and other procedures you can click on and read about. It's pretty interesting, I think. Actually, when I discovered it after having so many conversations with dh about almost everything covered on this site, I said to him, "I think someone was listening in!" But then again, I've become a sort of radical...









Enjoy


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

And here's another link for more articles if you're interested in reading about institutional birth rituals


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## heathenmom (Mar 9, 2005)

The wheelchair part of this thread reminded me of one more reason why I'm glad we uc'd. DD#2 flipped alot, but was mostly breech until labor. I went in for an ECV at about 37 weeks. I checked in at patient registration, then refused the "transport," as I was perfectly capable of walking the short distance to L&D. The lady who called for the transport was VERY upset with me and insisted that if anything happened to me they were responsible. Whatever. So I get upstairs and I'm waiting on dh to join me (he drove separately). He called me on the cell phone and told me the L&D nurses wouldn't let him in. I told him where I was, and he said, "I know. They were making fun of the 'one who didn't need a wheelchair'. I knew that was you." Funny that he immediately knew I was the one causing trouble, but it REALLY pissed me off that it was such a BFD that I wanted to walk.







:


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

I really don´t get why staff has to make such a big deal out of it. If a mama wants to walk then let her walk. Our mamas walk up to the L+D floor all of the time...why can´t they walk when they leave. I offer a wheel chair, but I´ve really got better things to do then get all upset and stressed out if a mama refuses it. I really don´t understand. It´s a shame this is even really an issue.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I understand the reason why. I just don't understand why it is any less of a risk if the baby is in the bassinette or car seat/

Hmm, thought I already explained this on this thread, but maybe I'm thinking of something else... our hospital explained it really well during the tour, which was fortunate.

It's sort of like a secret code. See, you tell the parents "Baby has to be in the bassinet anytime s/he's out of your room." Then the parents pass this info on to the trusted visitors who might escort the baby out of the room. So, everyone who is legitimately taking the baby out of the room knows about the bassinet.

But, if someone decides to slip into the maternity ward and try stealing a baby, they (presumably) DON'T know the policy, and don't want to wheel out a big, clunky bassinet. So, if you see someone walking down the hall carrying a baby, you can stop them, and probably need to (if the hospital and the family has communicated the policy effectively).

Now, our hospital didn't do the carseat thing (which is good, since we had a giant convertible), but I guess if that's the policy at a particular hospital, there ya go, same thing. Babynapper probably isn't going to bring a huge, clunky baby bucket with them.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
I've never had a problem with the patient not accepting that that they can't walk home. And I haven't heard of any of the other nurses having this problem. I guess we'd call social services and security if the patient was being "unreasonable" about this and figure out a way with the patient how they were going to get home. We wouldn't let the patient leave until they had a safe way to get home. I really don't think we have ever had this kind of situation though. We live in a strange place. It's a very small unique community. There aren't any side walks on the streets surrounding hospital so it would be unsafe to walk.

I live 0.2 miles away from the hospital and I wouldn't walk with my kids to the hospital.

You're kidding, right? Sorry, but this pisses me right the heck off. Just had to stop reading the thread here to reply.

You do not have the RIGHT to call social services because someone chooses to walk home from the hospital. It is NOT your decision. I am absolutely flabbergasted at the sheer cajones you have. Call social services? They would laugh in your face. Holllleeeee Canolli.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

I should just add my hospital experience with my first born.

I was horribly sick (induced a month early with HELLP syndrome and pre-E). On the day I was due to be discharged, I nearly fainted in the shower. I told the nursing staff and nothing was done







:

I had to BEG for a ride in a wheelchair to the car because I could barely walk 10 feet. Why did they let me go home???!


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
You're kidding, right? Sorry, but this pisses me right the heck off. Just had to stop reading the thread here to reply.

You do not have the RIGHT to call social services because someone chooses to walk home from the hospital. It is NOT your decision. I am absolutely flabbergasted at the sheer cajones you have. Call social services? They would laugh in your face. Holllleeeee Canolli.

She did mention previously that the hospital she works at is on a busy street/highway with NO sidewalks. So, ok, I get that it's not safe, in her particular case, to leave on foot. Hopefully, since the hospital could build sidewalks and hasn't, they offer free transportation options.


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## kimiij (Jun 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
She did mention previously that the hospital she works at is on a busy street/highway with NO sidewalks. So, ok, I get that it's not safe, in her particular case, to leave on foot. Hopefully, since the hospital could build sidewalks and hasn't, they offer free transportation options.


But isn't it the patient's perogative. Is the mother suddenly stupid or dumb and can't make decisions for herself? If she wants to walk home, then so be it. Why should the hospital have any say in how you get home?! And I agree with the person who said that calling social services for not letting hospital staff escort you somewhere is a waste...its a waste of my tax money! I mean, seriously, are you (generally you) still riding your power trip, you really need to control how a woman leaves a hospital?


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

Kimiij,

Right, but don't we all need to be protected from our own obvious ignorance by a giant impersonal conglomerate of policy-enforcers? I mean, you could _die_!









You're supposed to start learning _that_ as soon as possible, so why not straight out of the womb?







:


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

Those policies are annoying. They really put the staff in a really awkward positon. *I* personally would not call social services if a person that was obviously able to and competent (as in not on heavy meds) enough chose to walk home. Itś *their* choice. BUT IF something were to happen to the mom (steps off the side walk...get ran over...whatever) you can bet you butt, I would probably lose my job and possibly be named in a lawsuit if the parents so chose to sue. It a rare occurance. so I just take my chances on that. If I argue with them and demand they get a ride...I can also possibly get sued and fired/disciplined...I figure that is more likely. It is SO rare that someone chooses to walk home anyway...itś not really something that comes up all the time for me. So eh...I just can´t get that worked up about it.

Granted if the area seemed unsafe...I would probably ask them if there was anything I could do to arrange something for them, over and over...but thats not me trying to exert authority over them...thats just me being an annoying worrywart.


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phreedom* 
Granted if the area seemed unsafe...I would probably ask them if there was anything I could do to arrange something for them, over and over...but thats not me trying to exert authority over them...thats just me being an annoying worrywart.









Phreedom, I'd probably do the same, not because I don't think a mother can make the best choice for herself and child, but just because I care about people and if I had the means and they might possibly not and maybe they made the choice between two not-so-attractive options, then I would feel priviledged to be able to help. If the mum declined my offer, that's the end of it.

Your concern is admirable; the reaction of the workers who enforce the punishment situation described by Ackray, is not.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I don't understand how you could be sued for something that happens after mom leaves the hospital. Could you be sued if she got in a car accident on the way home too?


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I don't understand how you could be sued for something that happens after mom leaves the hospital. Could you be sued if she got in a car accident on the way home too?

Realistically, the likelyhood of it is probably nil...but they (hospital administration, other coworkers) have it so pounded into your head you think of everything. Some people will try to sue for anything. If mom walks down the street and gets run over...family may try to say that it was the hospitals responsibilty to see that she was sent away safely, or she was under the influence of narcotics and couldn´t decide...anything. Doesn´t mean they will get anything out if it. There was a lawsuit recently against the hosptial over a patient that fell in front of the hospital when he went outside to smoke...it was a grown man in his 50´s. He was competent and wanted a cigarette. You can´t MAKE him stay inside...but he fell and now it´s the hospitals fault (so he says). I really don´t see him getting anything from that...but he tried. Usually it´s not the individual nurse...but she/he can be named in a suit.

It´s policy that we have to make arrangements for a ride home if the patient doesn´t have one. It frequently happens...just not usually with mother/babies. It´s fine to offer...but you can´t force it. People still have the right to choose.

You always think about it...but I can´t let it run me. I can´t make every decison based on whether or not I will be sued (in my job and in real life). Somewhere common sense has to kick in.


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreggieUBA2C* 
Phreedom, I'd probably do the same, not because I don't think a mother can make the best choice for herself and child, but just because I care about people and if I had the means and they might possibly not and maybe they made the choice between two not-so-attractive options, then I would feel priviledged to be able to help. If the mum declined my offer, that's the end of it.

Your concern is admirable; the reaction of the workers who enforce the punishment situation described by Ackray, is not.

When I worked on the heart floor...we had a frequent flyer patient (she was in there ALL the time...she knew everyone by name) She was discharged and had no ride home and a cab would not come get her (we have like 2 cabs in the whole town). I ended up bringing her home after I got of work. Probably not the smartest thing ever...but I just felt so bad for her. I was warned by co workers that I could have been sooo sued if something happened to her (eyeroll)

I don´t think I´ll be driving patients home anymore though...not very bright.


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## UberMama (Feb 27, 2007)

With our kiddos, we carried them out in the car seats.. but the bases HAD to be installed and a nurse had to verify this. Silly thing was, the nurses didn't check to see if they were installed correctly. The nurse would just glance at the base in the seat and then say, "Okay!" and back into the hosp she went.

I'd have a FIT if the hosp insisted a nurse carry the baby out. Gimme a wheelchair and give me my baby (hey, I won't turn down a wheelchair ride, even if I feel WONDERFUL!).


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## sunshine's mama (Mar 3, 2007)

Wow, I have never heard of that....

Once they cut off that monitor that rings alarms and bells off my LO's ankle, nobody holds that baby but me....or daddy....

I know where I am, they ask they wheel you down in a chair...even if it's not needed and you can walk just fine and dandy....

I said that I was ok to walk down but they said it was policy...

I didn't make a stink out of it (ok, a slight stink about it this time)
bc I know that it's the last of the help I am going to get for awhile......although this time around daddy was alot more help the first week home....


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
She did mention previously that the hospital she works at is on a busy street/highway with NO sidewalks. So, ok, I get that it's not safe, in her particular case, to leave on foot. Hopefully, since the hospital could build sidewalks and hasn't, they offer free transportation options.

That's irrelevant.


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## malibusunny (Jul 29, 2003)

Well, you could just check out at 11 pm. Then they pretty much let you do whatever you want, because that's not when people normally check out, so the nurses at that time have no clue what the procedure is.







:


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phreedom* 
I really don´t get why staff has to make such a big deal out of it. If a mama wants to walk then let her walk. Our mamas walk up to the L+D floor all of the time...why can´t they walk when they leave. I offer a wheel chair, but I´ve really got better things to do then get all upset and stressed out if a mama refuses it. I really don´t understand. It´s a shame this is even really an issue.

I agree with you. I was offered a wheelchair after giving birth to my oldest and I refused. I also blacked out and nearly cracked my head open on the water fountain.







:







It never would have occured to me to hold anyone responsible for that but myself. If I am old enough to have a child, I can take responsibility for the decisions I make, even if they are stupid and I was strongly advised to 'take a seat'.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
That's irrelevant.

I don't see how it's irrelevant. Hospitals are BIG. They often take up the whole block. If it's a busy street/highway and the hospital didn't include sidewalks in their development plan, they probably *are* liable to some extent for pedestrians that get hit by cars. Heck, when I worked at the MTA, we had a bus stop that, because of the curvature of the street, got crashed into about every other month, even though there IS a curb there... and there were liability concerns. The new owner of the property behind it (giant mansion in the sub-Bel Air portion of West LA) was concerned enough that he was talking with MTA about improvements that could be made to make it safer for people waiting for the bus. (Don't know if anything ever came of it, though.)

If it's actually a highway, it may be illegal for pedestrians to walk along the shoulder. Obviously, CPS is *totally* the wrong authority to call if someone insists; the Highway Patrol or local PD Traffic Division would be more appropriate. I agree that the particular policy *as described* isn't appropriate, but I do think there are situations where the hospital, by not taking responsibility for the immediate urban environment in front of their property, could be liable for what happens to a pedestrian there... especially if it's someone just released from the hospital. Therefore, they'd need CYA policies in place.

Obviously, what *I* think they ought to do is pony up and build a friggin' sidewalk ;-) but then again, my grad school advisor's wife is the second author on this paper.


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## WC_hapamama (Sep 19, 2005)

I never argued about the wheelchair ride to the car. Yeah, I was capable of walking, but with those labial tears and perineal tears I had and the lack of sleep because I didn't ever send my babies to the nursery, I didn't mind the ride to the car.

It was by my choice though. I think when my youngest was born, they asked me if I wanted a wheelchair rather than assuming I wanted one.


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## Ackray (Feb 11, 2004)

I didn't say anything about calling cps. I said that I guess I'd call social services to help find the patient a safe way to get home. I'm positive they would not laugh in my face for this. I also said this has never happened to me so I don't see why people are feeling the need to make call me out as a terrible person for saying what I might do if faced with the situation. I wouldn't want to lose my job over something like me wanting to walk the patient to their car or finding a way for them to get home and them being confrontational about it. I guess I've been really lucky since I have never had an experience with a patient causing a big deal about our dishcharge policies.

Whatever.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

I have never heard of that, I carried both mine out. The insisted that I sat in a wheelchair and come out and inspect the carseat.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
I didn't say anything about calling cps. I said that I guess I'd call social services to help find the patient a safe way to get home. I'm positive they would not laugh in my face for this.

What's the difference between social services and CPS, and is this a service they typically provide? Maybe your area is different, but I think most places, social services and CPS are one and the same, and if they are called they either open a case on you or not, no in between. If they determine you could benefit from their involvement in any way, then you've got an open file and your legal right to your child is being evaluated. And all they provide is "counselling" or parenting classes or whatever, removal of children from parents, or "sorry to bother you, have a nice day." Sometimes they'll hook you up with Salvation Army or other charities for baby furniture etc., or help you figure out WIC/fs/cash assistance whatever. But I've never heard of them providing taxi service. I'm pretty sure they would either decide it's not a crisis situation and do nothing, or it is a crisis situation and remove the baby.


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## uakt (Jun 19, 2006)

I find this post very interesting. I had an unplanned/unwanted c sect, left the hospital after two days and wasn't even offered a wheelchair. I walked down several floors and out to the car in 110 degree heat. They never even asked how I was getting home or confirmed that the car seat would even be installed in a car. Two extremes in hospitals I guess.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
I didn't say anything about calling cps. I said that I guess I'd call social services to help find the patient a safe way to get home. I'm positive they would not laugh in my face for this. I also said this has never happened to me so I don't see why people are feeling the need to make call me out as a terrible person for saying what I might do if faced with the situation.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
What's the difference between social services and CPS, and is this a service they typically provide? Maybe your area is different, but I think most places, social services and CPS are one and the same, and if they are called they either open a case on you or not, no in between.

In my county, if they're called, they are REQUIRED to perform an investigation, which includes:

* Home visit -- where does the child sleep, is there food in the fridge, safety hazards, yadda yadda
* Interview with parent
* Physical inspection of child (they don't necessarily have to touch the child, but they have to have ample opportunity to see them and verify that they're healthy)
* Recording Pediatrician's name/phone number and copying immunization records

Now, when some nut at the supermarket didn't like how I put the shopping cart away and called the cops, fortunately, I knew enough to cooperate COMPLETELY with the social worker. We were also somewhat lucky that we'd elected to do all the baby vaccinations (on a somewhat delayed schedule, but up-to-date by the time this happened) and she didn't care about MMR or varicella.

But the fact is, Stephanie, in most places, if you call Social Services, or for that matter ANY authority (i.e. cops) because of concerns about the care a child is receiving... the family *will* be investigated. And if they're co-sleeping, delayed/selective/non-vaxing, exclusively nursing, babywearing type folks, and get a straight-arrow social worker who doesn't truck with that hippie nonsense, you can easily get a newborn baby removed from its parents' care... because they wanted to walk home.

So, I hope you're never in this situation, but if you are, you need to consider carefully what is the bigger risk: the family walking out the door and taking their chances on the shoulder, or the newborn possibly being removed from his/her family? Even a few day's separation that soon after the birth can ruin the family's chances to establish nursing, and would dramatically interfere with bonding.

And, frankly, if my choice were down to risking my job or letting a family I felt were otherwise well-prepared for parenthood make a crazy decision about transportation, I don't know that I'd want to keep that job. :-/ I've worked in a lot of places with a lot of policies, and I ALWAYS made absolutely sure I understood the backwards and forwards of every policy and how we were to enforce it before I accepted responsibility for it.... and yet, none of those decisions were ever quite as BIG as the one you might have to make one of these days. I hope you spend some quality time with your employer's established policy and your actual enforcement responsibilities, and aren't afraid to ask your supervisor(s) uncomfortable questions if you're not satisfied with what you read.


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## Ackray (Feb 11, 2004)

I guess it's just completely different here because none of that would warent a follow up of any kind.


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

If _I_ felt the need to call someone about a ride for a newly released patient, I would call a cab, the bus company, ride share program, a church, a community center, or drive them home myself. What I would _not_ do is call CPS or social services. Even in our area, where there really aren't any CPS/SS horror stories, that would not be a good idea at all. Everything requires a follow up, even it is just for paperwork reasons. Ackray, I think it's great that you would go the extra mile to help ensure they get home safely, I just disagree that CPS/SS would be the right call to make.


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## mommy_e (Feb 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
What's the difference between social services and CPS, and is this a service they typically provide? Maybe your area is different, but I think most places, social services and CPS are one and the same, and if they are called they either open a case on you or not, no in between.

I don't know about the PP's hospital in particular, but most hospitals around here have social workers on staff aka "social services". They are NOT CPS employees, but rather liscenced social workers who are there to help patients navigate the system. I have a good friend who is one and she routinely works with patients to make sure they are signed up for any programs they are eligible for (and want), helps them find social service agencies and charities for assistance and makes sure they have an adequate support system before discharge. She is not part of the CPS system, but is a mandated reporter like other heathcare workers.

If they really felt it was a case of neglect, they could call CPS, but in this case, most likely the social worker from the hospital would just call a cab for the person and provide a voucher.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
I guess it's just completely different here because none of that would warent a follow up of any kind.

Really? So, if someone calls the cops and says "I just saw a parent endangering their child," there's no follow-up? That's disturbing. Why do you think they'd help you stop the parents from walking home, then?


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## canadiannancy (Feb 23, 2005)

I felt very powerless when I had dd1. I was told I "had" to be induced....I "had" to let them take her to the nursery for weigh ins and check ups daily...we were not "allowed" to leave until were were told we were allowed to and we "had" to have a car seat to take our daughter home in....even though originally I planned on taking the bus home and we had no car or any plans to get one.

So....baby number two was a home birth and baby number three will be a home birth too...along with any other babies we have unless there is a serious problem needing medical attention in a hospital. DH was worried about when we would legally be allowed to homebirth...after much research....I am allowed to homebirth anytime now....not legally...but after my first experience...I am 36 weeks today and would deliver any time at home...I agree with some previous posters....I am the one who should make rules about what is allowed to happen to my baby and my body. No one else!


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## Ackray (Feb 11, 2004)

: I'm not answering that. It has nothing to do with this conversation at all.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

If you mean Ironica's post, it certainly does.


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

If the parents wanted a ride and was willing to wait, I guess I could see where social services (not CPS) might come in handy. But if you have a parent that is ready to leave NOW and wants to walk, I don't see what good calling a social worker is going to do. Most of them work certain hours and even then they aren't going to be down there STAT for that situation (if at all).

If there were a sudden, clear child endangerment issue involved, I would first call the police (have a substaion in the hospital). Social services/CPS would come after. (and no, child endangerment doesn't mean walking home, taking a bus or refusing a wheel chair)

This thread has really got me thinking... I know policy and state laws say that an infant must be in a car seat. We tell the parents this and all of them (in my experience) have always had one. I really don't know what I would do if I was walking someone down and they had thier own private vehicle and no carsear to speak of and were adamant about leaving right that second. I guess I would inform them of the laws and the safety issues...give them a chance to get one. Then if they didn't I would call CPS to investigate the car seat issue. I would feel really weird calling the police on them, but we aren't supposed to let them leave like that. But really how can you FORCE them? I don't think I'm willing to put myself in danger like that, but what about the baby?

What do yall think should be done in a situation like that?


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
Really? So, if someone calls the cops and says "I just saw a parent endangering their child," there's no follow-up? That's disturbing. Why do you think they'd help you stop the parents from walking home, then?

Chances are that's all they would be able to do is follow up. I can't see them getting there that fast to be able to speak with the parents. I think security or the police would be the best people to call in an immediate situation of child endangerment. CPS at THAT point would be kind of useless.

Not that I'm saying that this is a dangerous situation. But in the event of a child endangerment situation. Yeah they do happen sometimes.


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## 4 in 2005 (May 22, 2004)

Heathenmom- Elizabeth-

I had quite the oppisite reaction. I was in labor with my first. My husband took me to the hospital and his best friend showed up as well. I got out of the car as a hard contraction hit. I want to stand still when contractions hit. I told my husband give me a second. Next thing I know I am being forced into a wheelchair by these 2 men that are just freaking out.

I decided to humor them because they would not hear of me walking into the hospital. OMG the nurse in the Er and the L&D nurse both had a fit. "Well we are going to make you walk when you get up here." UGH. I wanted to slap her. She would not listen that it was not my idea, I thought it would be easier then arguing with these 2 that wouldn't listen anyway. She made a big deal about it to the other L&D nurse on shift.

They check me and I am 6cms dialated and he is very low. "No wonder you didn't feel up to walking." Now all of a sudden it was ok. I though how rude.

BTW my local hospital has a policy that mom and baby have to be taken to the door by a nurse. Mom in a wheelchair and baby has to either be held by mom or a nurse. However mom has the option. They push that suggestion. If you have a bucket seat the want you to bring it in. If you have a convertiable they let you leave it in the car. They have to see you have a car seat. I asked what would happen if I didn't want to be pushed in a wheel chair. I can refuse but I would have to sign waivers and that seemed like a hassle to me. They won't let me carry the baby out however, because if I fell the wouldn't want the baby injured on htie property and they have to ensure there is a car seat.


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