# CIO in the car seat ? ~ PLEASE Advise....



## Enchanted Gypsy (Oct 5, 2006)

My just turned eight month old DD hates being in her car seat ! She cries and cries like she is being tortured and it is torture on me !

I cannot let her scream that way so from the time she was born I have taken her out and nursed her while in the car/bus while DH drives, ocasionally putting her back in the seat when she would tolerate it.

Now that she is mobile it has escalated to her wanting to climb all over the car, stand up on things and I just cant have her doing that.

The question is..how is letting her just sit in the seat and scream until she pasess out not CIO ?

I dont see how a baby would understand the difference between that and being left to CIO in the crib . So, if you believe that CIO in the crib is damaging, ( I do ) wouldn't it be the same in the carseat, but worse ? After all she is tied down to boot ..

What do I do ? We live and travel full time in a converted house bus and so are mobile quite a lot.

Any Ideas ?? Advice, suggestions...

~ Pixie


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Letting a babe cry in the car seat (while you verbally interact with/try to soothe them) is the same, to me, as any other situation where you are trying to soothe them but failing. Rocking a babe with an ear ache or tooth pain doesn't necessarily fix the problem or make them feel better, but it lets them know that you're there and you care.

Leaving them alone in a crib to cry lets them know that their cries don't matter and you won't interact with them. Leaving them buckled in their car seat when they don't want to be there (but still talking to them) let's them know that sometimes Mama can't fix everything but she'll still be there doing the best she can.

On the other hand, it is a very artificial situation and human babies aren't really evolved to "understand" the concept that nobody can hold them right now.


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## Enudely (Jul 2, 2005)

I had the same problem with my daughter and it was HORRIBLE! She screamed every time she was in the car from the day she was born until after her first birthday. I basically just never went anywhere alone with her, and perfected what became known as the "hanging boob trick" while someone else was driving. You can probably use your imagination on that one. I'm sorry.... I think it's really unatural to have to strap the baby in. But be careful taking him out of the car seat! It's very illegal and I think they might even be able to take your baby into custody if you get caught doing that (just something I heard....)
good luck!!


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

I agree that crying in a carseat with attempts to soothe is different than being left alone to cry. Just the presence of someone helps to relieve the stress.

That said, there are some things you can try. Is it this way in every seat? Can you try a friend's seat to see if it makes a difference? Angle and cushiness can have an effect on the baby.
What about bringing the seat in the house and using it in a non-car setting? Let her crawl all over it, put her in it for a special game when she gets better with it.
What about a mirror? If motion sickness is an issue, then a soft mirror might help.

I would never, ever, advocate taking a baby out in a moving car. The seat might as well be left at home if that were the case. Car seats are meant to prevent injury in an accident, and since we can't predict when accidents happen it's just not a good solution. Pull over, take her out and then get back in. That might help the crying ease up some. 8mo is an age where a child starts to figure out cause and effect. If the cause is crying and the effect is getting out of the seat, the crying will not stop. Even something that's tolerable but not liked can be turned into a full scale tantrum if the tears work.
I know that seems very ant-GD, but it's just like dropping cheerios, you know? If a bad day or a bad period happened where the seat was intolerable and mom took baby out each time, then baby expects to be out each time when the same measures are used.


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

That is a hard one. Really, though, you just can't continue taking her out to nurse while the car is moving. It is definitely illegal and who knows what would happen to your baby if you got caught, not to mention the unspeakable badness of a wreck... it's scary to think about.

How about bringing the car seat in the house letting her explore it at her own pace, so she can make her peace with it? Maybe if you can get her used to just sitting in it and playing with a toy, or whatever, eventually you can strap her in and treat it like some sort of wonderful gaming, unstrapping her when she's had enough.

Every now and then my son protests when we put him in his seat, and we always apologize/ explain briefly (he's only 15 months old) and then get a toy or cracker or something in his hand ASAP. That usually helps.


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## birdie22 (Apr 1, 2005)

Even the great Dr. William Sears says that there's only so much you can do in the car. It's normal for the baby to be upset, especially approaching a year old, because they wonder wonder where you are. Continuous singing worked best for me (though it didn't work all the time) on days when I was alone in the car with ds. We also avoided unnecessary car trips during this time, and stopped frequently for nursing/activity breaks if we were taking a long trip.

It is just way too dangerous (and illegal in all states AFAIK) to have the baby unrestrained in a moving vehicle. PLEASE keep her in her seat, however mad she gets. If you want to give her a break, the driver should stop.


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## mrs_mandolini (Feb 23, 2007)

Yes, the hanging boob while someone else is driving is where it's at.

Also, nursing right before getting in the car, even if it doesn't seem to be time yet, helps.


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## kikidee (Apr 15, 2007)

As others have said, it's dangerous (and illegal) to take the babe out of the carseat while in the car. We had the same situation -- DD hates being the car for long periods of time.

When she was a baby, we did the hanging boob thing, and we stopped a LOT in parking lots so I could nurse her.

It's definitely not the same as letting your child lay in the crib alone crying. You are right there soothing her. She sees your love and feels your love. I know that she is still crying and you still want to fix it, but it's way different than the typical CIO situation.


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

Yeah, singing... when our guy gets antsy, my husband and I start a loud, long verison of "Old McDonald"... I call the animals, he makes the noises. Ivan is greatly entertained by this.

Re: Hanging Boob: Yes, but you also may want to consider modeling the behavior of staying buckled into your own "car seat." Then at least at some point she'll (hopefull) realize it isn't just her (further down the road, so to speak).


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## EvansMomma (Mar 7, 2006)

I've no ideas, but wanted to pipe in to say that I think the OP isn't driving around in a car, but rather a converted bus that they live/travel in? So I don't think the same rules about child restraints apply do they? It would be similar to being in a motor home, no? You can get up and walk around in one of those.


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## saimeiyu (Aug 13, 2007)

my 4 m/o DD hates her car seat as well. Letting her cry in the carseat while you talk to her and try and soothe her, hold her hand, etc, is in NO WAY the same as CIO at home in a crib. CIO means you leave the baby alone to cry and "check in" every once in a while. If you're not leaving the baby alone, it doesn't classify as CIO.
If you do take your LO out of her carseat in a car while someone is driving, be aware that in many states, that is a primary offense, meaning they can pull you over for it. You and the driver could get charged w/child endangerment, and they will usually take her away for at least a few days if that happens.

That being said, at first we couldn't go much of anywhere w/dd unless she was asleep. We would have to wait until she feel asleep, get her in her carseat, and drive like he__ to get where we were going, then do the same thing to get home.
Then I learned a little trick.
I sing to her at home, with signs, and make it really fun. We have a song of the week (So mama doesn't go crazy) and make it a lot of fun, lots of smiling, clapping, excitement, you get the picture. then when we put her in her car seat, first we hold her hand, then if she starts to fuss, we talk to her about the other cars, scenery, etc. and then we switch to singing w/ signs. It works WONDERS!
If I have to drive w/her on my own, then I sing REALLY LOUDLY the whole time, and we got Wee Sing Car Songs c/d so we can sing a lot. I talk to her the whole time, tell her where we are, where we are going, when I can take her out of her carseat, give her a running narrative. As long as I'm talking to/over her, I don't have to worry about her, even if she's crying. She knows I'm right there and I love her. She's a lot better w/ the carseat now.
Also, as soon as I get home and bring her inside, first thing I do is we sit down and do the song again, in a calm home environment to reinforce the happy part of the singing.
Good luck!


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## Limabean1975 (Jan 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EvansMomma* 
I've no ideas, but wanted to pipe in to say that I think the OP isn't driving around in a car, but rather a converted bus that they live/travel in? So I don't think the same rules about child restraints apply do they? It would be similar to being in a motor home, no? You can get up and walk around in one of those.

Not when you are driving. YOu should be belted in the front seats when driving.


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## lld (Jul 16, 2007)

If your child is still in one of those bucket type seats, I highly suggest getting one of the convertible ones. My son screamed in the bucket seat his first 5 months of life every time he was in it. I am a single mom so i was never even able to sit in the back next to him to soothe him. It was torture. He reached 20 pounds at 5 months so I switched him to the convertible, and all the fussing stopped. Immediately. He still cries for about 30 seconds while I strap him in but I laugh and joke with him and he quickly stops.

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but I feel like you're setting yourself up for many problems by taking her out every time she cries. Even with GD there are times when you have to put your child's safety first. She will need to be in a car seat for a lot longer and if she is now learning that the more she cries the sooner you'll take her out, she may always cry. Be kind, gentle and loving but let her know that taking care of her safety is one of your jobs...


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## tulips117 (Feb 23, 2005)

Just had to chime in here, that I knew a family of loving parents, who had a baby who was really difficult in the car. Cried constantly. I am beyond saddened to tell you that the baby was killed upon impact when a young driver ran a red light and crashed into their vehicle. Her mother had been holding and nursing the baby, obviously she had taken the baby out of the car seat.

I implore you, please, do not EVER drive with your child unsecured. It is much better to hear your child cry, than to never hear that cry again.


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## Enchanted Gypsy (Oct 5, 2006)

Thank you so much for all the replies, and you are all 100% correct. I can't believe how stupid I have been, though thank you for being "gentle" with me..LOL..

I guess this is my first big parental mistake,..yeah, I know..it's a biggy...

I will never, ever take her out again. Even though we live and travel in a bus and it is exempt from seat belt laws ( we installed a belt ourselves) that does not change the fact that her life is in danger.

tulips117 your post really hit me hard. Thank you for sharing that story..I cannot imagine..


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Enudely* 
I think it's really unatural to have to strap the baby in.

No, having the baby in a vehicle that is moving too quickly to be safe for the baby unstrapped is unnatural. Having to strap the baby in is a natural consequence of using unnatural modes of transportation.

Also, as mentioned above, maybe a different carseat will be more comfortable, you can use a rearfacing convertible car seat pretty much from day one, they generally are okay from 5 to 30 lbs. Check out the Evenflo Triumph Advanced (the "Advanced" part is important) that is RF until 35 lbs with high straps (note, FF is only to 50, but most kids out grow the 65lb seats by height before they're even close to the weight limit).


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

My dd1 cried because the noise of the car hurt her. Earplugs are something to think about. And the most comfortable car seat you can lay your hands on.

If you are living in the bus, it may be even harder for her to be restrained since she wants to get up and play just like she would if you were stopped.

I wonder if some rv'ing moms might have ideas.


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## plenilunio (Jan 22, 2008)

hey mami. oooofff i know exactly how you feel.. for the first 9 or 10 months of his life, my ds would wail non-stop from the minute i placed him into the car seat up until we reached our destination and i would take him out. he would get himself so worked up that he wouldn't even fall asleep. it drove me batty, so i know exactly how you feel! i am a single mom, so i never got to sit in the back seat to hold his hand, rub his head and try to soothe him. singing to him or playing music on the radio had only transitory effectiveness. once in awhile i would pull over to take him out and nurse him, but that wasn't always possible, especially if we were in a hurry to get somewhere. it got to the point that i dreaded driving anywhere.. but there is a light at the end of the tunnel! things got a lot better once he turned 1 and i switched him into a front-facing seat. by 13 months, the crying was rare. he is now 18 months and NEVER EVER cries in the car. nowadays, when i'm having a hard time getting him to nap, i take him for a quick ride in the car and it works like magic.
just hang in there and know that things will get better soon!


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## tulips117 (Feb 23, 2005)

Enchanted gypsy, don't be too hard on yourself...we've all made lots of mistakes, and I myself have sur made a couple of doozies!
I just had to share the story because it was my personal knowledge, and it was totally devastating to all of us around this family when it happened...and we all thought "gosh, how many times have I done that same thing". I have never again taken my kids out of the car, regardless of the reason...I once even let my older son throw up all over himself and sit in it for almost 30 minutes until we could pull over safely.

You're a good mama doing the best you can for your baby!


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
My dd1 cried because the noise of the car hurt her. Earplugs are something to think about. And the most comfortable car seat you can lay your hands on.

If you are living in the bus, it may be even harder for her to be restrained since she wants to get up and play just like she would if you were stopped.

I wonder if some rv'ing moms might have ideas.

I think this is a great point and I was thinking something similar reading this thread. My son put up with the carseat after we did some things below, but he would have shrieked bloody murder at being confined in his HOME. OP, I think your situation is complicated, although I totally agree that the safety concerns trump everything else really.

I was wondering if a "carseat transition routine" where you explain you are going to be moving, sing a "moving" song (or play a particular travelling CD - make sure you like it), talk about what will happen when you stop moving, and then have a stop moving routine would eventually help. This helped my son - especially the CD. I played this particular mix CD for him at home a lot with clapping parts and a lot of expression. Then I would bring it in the car and assure him we would get out when the CD was done (45 min, which got us most places). That CD helped a lot!


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I don't think it is legal in most states to have your child out of the car seat even if they don't like it. In some states you can get your child taken away for child endangerment, the law does not take into account the inconvenience to you and the baby, it takes the child's safety into account and if you are caught letting your baby crawl around on the seat you may lose the baby to foster care.

When my daughter was young we made short trips and took the bus or walked as much as possible. I made our shopping trips really big ones so we didn't have to go out again. When she cried I sang to her and talked to her the whole time and let her know I was there. When she got old enough to eat teething biscuits and such that made a huge difference, from that time on she was very happy on each car trip.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I had another thought on this. Enchanted Gypsy, could you rig up a curtain or something for when you're driving to emphasize the "now we're driving" aspect? I think what someone else said about your LO being upset that here she is in her home with all her toys and she can't play like normal was a good point.

Also, what about doing some short trips. So she can get used to you saying "we're almost there" "it's the next corner" "we're here, it's okay"--which might not help her but reciting things like that might help *you* have less frazzled nerves.









And also, although difficult to do in a small home, what about a set of toys that are *only* for traveling. At 8 months she's nearly old enough to care about encountering a rarely seen toy and it would set things up for her to be happier about trips when she's 2.


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## goodearthmama (Nov 7, 2006)

No advice other than that the pp's have said as far as singing, etc. I do like the idea of the curtain or something to that effect to signal her that you are driving and the seat is necessary. We are in the same boat as my lo hates the car. He likes it a little bit better since we got a Britax blvd. but not much better.

ALso, my midwife told me that is is LEGAL in TN to have the baby out of the seat if babe needs to nurse...I didn't check into it, but not sure why she'd tell me that if it weren't true. It doesn't make up for the safety factor, but does allow for the legality part (if it is true).

Oh, and sometimes when my dh and I are riding together, We stop and swap up and that "change of scenery" often stops the frustration at least for a little while.


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## bbsc (Dec 7, 2006)

If you can manage it, the dangling boob trick works pretty well. I remember sitting in the back nursing all the time. Now he's satisfied to hold hands while we drive if he's having a hard time.


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## Karamom (Mar 26, 2007)

:


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

Admittedly I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, but I want to put in my 2 cents about the CIO in car topic. In my opinion, crying it out in the car is no different than crying it out in a crib while mama stands over you patting baby's back saying "lie down," or whatever they say when they use those methods that babies don't understand. To a baby, it makes no sense and still feels like abandonment.

I realize this sucks and there are no great solutions because we simply have to drive sometimes, but I don't like the rationalizations I read here sometimes about how not responding to this crying is somehow more acceptable because it involves a carseat.

For my 4 car-hating children (yes, all four of them, for about a year each - although #3 was much better than the others), we tried many things: dangling boob, music, windows down, snacks, facing the carseat forward asap, walking whenever possible, waiting until baby was well-rested (bc they never fell asleep in the car if they were tired, they cried worse), arranging for someone to sit next to them and amuse them, keeping trips short, only driving when absolutely necessary.

It really really stinks but it does pass.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess* 
For my 4 car-hating children (yes, all four of them, for about a year each - although #3 was much better than the others), we tried many things: dangling boob, music, windows down, snacks, facing the carseat forward asap, walking whenever possible, waiting until baby was well-rested (bc they never fell asleep in the car if they were tired, they cried worse), arranging for someone to sit next to them and amuse them, keeping trips short, only driving when absolutely necessary.

It really really stinks but it does pass.

Why not just write that without the guilt trip?


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess* 
Admittedly I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, but I want to put in my 2 cents about the CIO in car topic. In my opinion, crying it out in the car is no different than crying it out in a crib while mama stands over you patting baby's back saying "lie down," or whatever they say when they use those methods that babies don't understand. To a baby, it makes no sense and still feels like abandonment.

I realize this sucks and there are no great solutions because we simply have to drive sometimes, but I don't like the rationalizations I read here sometimes about how not responding to this crying is somehow more acceptable because it involves a carseat.

For my 4 car-hating children (yes, all four of them, for about a year each - although #3 was much better than the others), we tried many things: dangling boob, music, windows down, snacks, facing the carseat forward asap, walking whenever possible, waiting until baby was well-rested (bc they never fell asleep in the car if they were tired, they cried worse), arranging for someone to sit next to them and amuse them, keeping trips short, only driving when absolutely necessary.

It really really stinks but it does pass.

Just wanted to say that if you read the thread you would realize the OP has a unique situation in that they live in a converted bus so technically they are on the go quite a bit and I am guessing that not driving is not always an option when your house is mobile.

I don't think people are rationilizing crying in the car versus CIO to me they are 2 different beasts.

Shay


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## saimeiyu (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess* 
Admittedly I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, but I want to put in my 2 cents about the CIO in car topic. In my opinion, crying it out in the car is no different than crying it out in a crib while mama stands over you patting baby's back saying "lie down," or whatever they say when they use those methods that babies don't understand. To a baby, it makes no sense and still feels like abandonment.

I realize this sucks and there are no great solutions because we simply have to drive sometimes, but I don't like the rationalizations I read here sometimes about how not responding to this crying is somehow more acceptable because it involves a carseat.


Um, if you're right there with the baby while s/he cries, it doesn't classify as
"crying it out". The whole point of CIO is to get the baby to "self-soothe" which does not happen while the parent is there. The feeling of abandonment is when you LEAVE the baby.

Also, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON has said ANYTHING about "not responding to [the] crying" because there's a carseat involved. What was said was that you don't drive while the baby's not in the car seat.


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Why not just write that without the guilt trip?

?? I have certainly felt guilty a lot when my babies have cried in the car, and I don't mean to cause any other mamas to suffer. My only point is that *from the baby's perspective* it's really not a lot different whether they're in a car seat or not - if they want to be held, and they're used to being picked up when they cry, the car experience _feels like_ abandonment, imo. I don't care if you call it CIO or not... whatever.

Of course our intentions are totally good when we put our babies in carseats, and it's totally different than the motivation for leaving a baby in a crib. For a baby, though, the experience is not a lot different, I think. Of course it's nice if someone is sitting right there by the baby, but for a lot of us that isn't possible in the car.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shayinme* 
Just wanted to say that if you read the thread you would realize the OP has a unique situation in that they live in a converted bus so technically they are on the go quite a bit and I am guessing that not driving is not always an option when your house is mobile.

This is my mistake - that sounds like a really bad situation.

I've just read so many car-crying thread on MDC, and I never get the sense that people really get it that babies have no idea why they're not being responded to in the manner they're accustomed. We can coo and stroke them all we want, but they just don't get that. Hence, the continued screaming.

The other thing I guess I was meaning to say but didn't (in fact, my whole post obviously came across way more harsh than I meant) is that the best solution, ime, is to drive much less. Obviously not easy for the OP.


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

I think it must be lovely to have babies that you can somehow manage to never put down crying. I've never had one... #3 here is an in arms 24/7 baby, and unless he's in a deep sleep, he cries when he is not in arms - most of the time mom's arms only will do. I sure as heck, didn't train him to be that way either, just his temperment. Sometimes when my body odor is so bad I can't stand it, I go take a bath, and sink down with my ears in the water so I can't hear him screaming. When I get brave enough to venture out of the house every couple weeks, I turn the music up and sing with Dave Mathews to take my mind off the screaming in the backseat. Torture is a good word for what these babies do to us - I guess the best we can do is just get done what we need to get done as quickly (and safely) as possible, so we can get back to being their personal slaves ;0)


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

I do not agree that a baby feels abandoned if they are crying and you are right next to them on the seat.

OP, I'm really glad you've decided not to drive with the baby unrestrained.

A lot of people talk about how unsafe it is to dangle your breast over the baby when you're in the vehicle but I did it all the time. It was a solution for us on long trips when we couldn't keep stopping every 2 minutes.


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## ar2974 (Nov 19, 2006)

I am not trying to be snarky or rude - I am just genuinely curious.
I live in NYC and dh and I don't have a car so I never have these issues, but I was wondering about the breast dangling solution. Can you do this while still wearing a seat belt? If not, is it not incredibly dangerous?


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## californiajenn (Mar 7, 2007)

OP,

Could you please tell us what kind of seat you have? We may have some suggestions to help your situation.

As you know, it doesn't matter if it is legal or not, it is very dangerous to remove your babe from the carseat.

Also, it is not safe to have the dangling boob either. If you are leaning over so close so your breast is in the baby's mouth, what happens if you get hit? You will smash straight into your baby's face and the your weight on the carseat could possibly cause it to fail in the crash. Not a good idea.

Best thing to do is get the most comfortable carseat you can, have toys available for ONLY driving time, and cross your fingers that she grows out of it.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess* 
Admittedly I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, but I want to put in my 2 cents about the CIO in car topic. In my opinion, crying it out in the car is no different than crying it out in a crib while mama stands over you patting baby's back saying "lie down," or whatever they say when they use those methods that babies don't understand. To a baby, it makes no sense and still feels like abandonment.
esponding to this crying is somehow more acceptable because it involves a carseat.
.


Because of course, waking up alone and hungry in the dark and being left that way until you cry yourself back to sleep is *exactly* 100% the same as having mom next to you , talking to you, making sure you know she's there.

I don't get how this is abandonment, myself. It is not responding 100% to the child's desire to be out of the seat, but especially if you do the nurse-into the rearfacing carseat trick, you are niether abandoning the child to be alone nor are you denying the hunger that may have prompted the cry.

Which, to me, is a lot more acceptable. The two situations are very different.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ar2974* 
I am not trying to be snarky or rude - I am just genuinely curious.
I live in NYC and dh and I don't have a car so I never have these issues, but I was wondering about the breast dangling solution. Can you do this while still wearing a seat belt? If not, is it not incredibly dangerous?

Yep, I can wear my seatbelt and still breastfeed my son in his Roundabout.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *californiajenn* 
Also, it is not safe to have the dangling boob either. If you are leaning over so close so your breast is in the baby's mouth, what happens if you get hit? You will smash straight into your baby's face and the your weight on the carseat could possibly cause it to fail in the crash. Not a good idea.

Wouldn't the seat belt I'm wearing keep me from smashing into my baby's seat hard enough to break it?


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Because of course, waking up alone and hungry in the dark and being left that way until you cry yourself back to sleep is *exactly* 100% the same as having mom next to you , talking to you, making sure you know she's there.
.











anyone feeling defensive?

I wasn't talking about a baby alone in a room in a crib. If you read what I wrote, I was talking about other types of sleep training in which parents don't pick up their crying infant, whose only reasonable expectation is that he will be picked up. They may offer comfort or patting or whatever, but that's not what baby needs.

Abandonment is not the best word - obviously mom is right there. Of course it's not as bad as a baby being left totally alone. I just don't think it's any good to pretend this is OK for a baby. It's not ok for babies to be allowed to scream and cry for extended periods for any reason. Their brains and hearts do not understand cars and seatbelts, or why we always pick them up when they need us, and then sometimes just won't.


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## Enchanted Gypsy (Oct 5, 2006)

Thanks for all the great replies and suggestions.

The carseat we have is up to 30lbs and very cush, with various degrees of inclines. I dont think the seat is the problem.

We are going to be driving a great distance tomorow and I have bought a few special toys, a mesh teether and some other things to entertain her.

While it may not be the same as CIO, I do believe that she does not understand why she is being tied down unable to move much and mama is not helping her.

We usually just live in the bus regionally so there is not a ton of driving..just going a few miles back and forth to various camping spots. Our work is taking us up north though and we have to go...

Wish us well...


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## iamleabee (Jul 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess* 









Their brains and hearts do not understand cars and seatbelts, or why we always pick them up when they need us, and then sometimes just won't.

the baby's brains and heart will hurt far worse if it is smashed to bits in a car accident while unrestrained. and mama's heart will hurt every single moment for the rest of her life.

and the baby's brain certainly doesn't understand why it needs to be strapped in to a car seat. that is why the baby has a wonderful mama, to keep her safe until she CAN understand. a crib is NOT a bus or van moving at 60mph. the issue of safety in a moving vehicle is paramount in the car situation, it's not even a factor in the CIO/crib situation. if baby cries in the crib, the parent can take the baby out without endangering her life. not so in a moving car.


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

yea, ita with all of the above and never said otherwise.


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
Wouldn't the seat belt I'm wearing keep me from smashing into my baby's seat hard enough to break it?

Depends. A standard seatbelt works better on one half the body than the other. It's also meant to be worn on an adult sitting upright with little to no slack in the belt. If the half of you that is unrestrained is leaning over the baby, yes, you can hurt your child in a crash.

However, if your car is outfitted like something out of NASCAR, more power to ya!


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess* 
Their brains and hearts do not understand cars and seatbelts, or why we always pick them up when they need us, and then sometimes just won't.

Well...true. But they also don't understand why we won't let them get down and play with the woodstove (when we always let them explore their environment), or why we won't let them help Dad with that awesome chainsaw he's using, etc. etc.

Crying, being upset, whatever, feels the same to the baby regardless of why it's happening (albeit better if you're being held, worst if there's nobody there at all). That doesn't make it CIO. Otherwise, any time we can't make the baby happy it could be called CIO (gas, earache, teething, overtired).

Whether or not something is CIO depends on the caregiver's motivation. If they are trying to teach the child something by letting them cry, then yes, it's CIO. If they're just unable (for whatever reason, either complete inability or safety concerns) to do what will make the baby happy, then it's not CIO. And I do think that, to some degree, even very young infants can feel the difference. An involved and sympathatic parent (or heck, spouse!) feels and acts differently than a firm and disassociated one, even if they can't fix the situation.


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## saimeiyu (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prothyraia* 
Well...true. But they also don't understand why we won't let them get down and play with the woodstove (when we always let them explore their environment), or why we won't let them help Dad with that awesome chainsaw he's using, etc. etc.

Crying, being upset, whatever, feels the same to the baby regardless of why it's happening (albeit better if you're being held, worst if there's nobody there at all). That doesn't make it CIO. Otherwise, any time we can't make the baby happy it could be called CIO (gas, earache, teething, overtired).

Whether or not something is CIO depends on the caregiver's motivation. If they are trying to teach the child something by letting them cry, then yes, it's CIO. If they're just unable (for whatever reason, either complete inability or safety concerns) to do what will make the baby happy, then it's not CIO. And I do think that, to some degree, even very young infants can feel the difference. An involved and sympathatic parent (or heck, spouse!) feels and acts differently than a firm and disassociated one, even if they can't fix the situation.

ITA.
Babies are smart. They know the difference between being "taught a lesson" and when mom or dad is trying to soothe them. I believe it makes a big, huge difference later on.
Also, if while the baby is crying you sit there and explain why you can't pull them out of the carseat, every time, it's much less likely that they will associate the carseat with being ignored.
My DD's only 4 months. She's much better w/the carseat now than she was at first. I explain to her all the time about why we put her in the car seat, how far we're going, how mommy wishes it was safe to have her out of her carseat, but we want to keep her safe and alive, so we have to strap her in, etc, etc. It makes a big difference, I've noticed. I didn't always do that. Babies know when they're being spoken to lovingly. That's the long and short of it. Nobody likes to be treated like they're stupid... Babies may not understand EXACTLY what is going on, but they still like to be told. You know?


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## mowilli3 (Jan 7, 2007)

My DS was the same way. It lasted until we turned his seat around. Is she 20lb? I'd turn her around. It's safer than taking her out, and if it distracts you as much as it did me, it's safer than leaving her backwards. When he was too small to face forward, we didn't go anywhere that we couldn't walk. My DH did all the driving and we stayed home. It was pretty isolating, but time passed and now he does great, especially when he has a snack and we sing Old MacDonald.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovingmommyhood* 
I do not agree that a baby feels abandoned if they are crying and you are right next to them on the seat.


yeah, me either. i can't imagine that her crying while i'm next to her or even in the front seat talking to her is much different from when she cries when i have to pee or shower and she's in the bathroom with me but not in my lap. sometimes she fusses/cries then, too, but a girl's got to pee sometime









i don't think she feels "abandoned" then, especially not at her age--she can see me when i'm a couple feet away, she can hear me, she understands i have not left her. i do think she feels frustrated, disappointed, and confused as to why i am not picking her up, but she is (i think) beginning to learn that different rules apply when mama is showering or driving, etc. and she can't just be held during those times. i hold her anytime i can and she wants, though









and no, i in no way think this is CIO.

when she was a tiny thing (like 3-4 months), i would not shower if she were upset. if i got her into the bouncy seat and started undressing, i'd stop the whole shebang if she cried. but i think she's to an age now that a few minutes of upset while i'm right there reassuring her (and i know she's not hungry or something else that needs immediate fixing) is okay. dr. sears even says the same thing, BTW--you don't have to pick up a crying 9 month old as fast/as often as a crying 9 week or 9 DAY old.

now that doesn't mean you shouldn't pick them up if you CAN. i still respond immediately if i CAN, but if i can't, i stress less about it than i used to.


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## STJinNoVa (Dec 25, 2007)

maybe i'm the hard-ass in the bunch, and i'm sure some folks will think i'm a rotten mama, but i'm done feeling bad about a few angry want-to-be-held tears in the carseat. if you want to consider that cio, so be it; i don't. it is my job as the mama to keep her safe, and like it or not, sometimes safety trumps my parenting ideals.

when we need to go somewhere, we need to go somewhere. she gets in the carseat and stays there until it is safe to get her out, and even if i had someone to drive me to the store for a gallon of milk (which isn't even organic) i wouldn't nurse in the carseat because i don't see that as at all safe. i'm too short and too small breasted (not even a b cup) to dangle my boob in her face, and i'd rather not smash her or go flying through the windshield because i took my seatbelt off to nurse her while driving a few blocks. it's just a practical matter, really.

we are rarely more than 10 minutes from home or destination. i'll nurse in the parking lot to soothe her - at the store she usually goes into the moby anyway. i'll nurse to soothe her when we get home. i don't take her places far from home.

after worrying about her crying in the five minutes between the ped's office and home when she was five days old, i realized that i was not doing irreparable harm by not stopping the car every 5 feet to soothe her when she's mad about the carseat.

bottom line: i don't do frivolous trips, but in the car she is in the carseat, period, and unless she gets hysterical i don't stop in the middle of a short trip. we go where we need to go and we cope with it as best we can.

it is okay. it is! it is okay. that is the measure of grace i need to function some days, as a sahm with no sahm friends and a dh who travels a lot, leaving me with things that need to get done. my relationship with my kid improved a lot when i stopped thinking i was a bad mama because i didn't achieve some parenting nirvana in which she never has to endure anything she finds unpleasant. suddenly i could pee and take 90-second showers on occasion with no guilt. ditto that going to the store or the bank. i'm not one step away from dumping her in the crib at night to return 8 hours later, having slept peacefully with earplugs in my ears to drown out the howling. i'm driving 2 miles to the store or the bank one or two days a week.

so, call it cio if you want, call me detached if you want, have all the concern for my dd's psyche you want, but this is the world we live in.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *STJinNoVa* 
my relationship with my kid improved a lot when i stopped thinking i was a bad mama because i didn't achieve some parenting nirvana in which she never has to endure anything she finds unpleasant. suddenly i could pee and take 90-second showers on occasion with no guilt. ditto that going to the store or the bank. i'm not one step away from dumping her in the crib at night to return 8 hours later, having slept peacefully with earplugs in my ears to drown out the howling. i'm driving 2 miles to the store or the bank one or two days a week.....this is the world we live in.


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