# my son is becoming THAT kid at playgroup



## jilly (Feb 14, 2005)

You know the one. The one that drives all the other moms crazy and prevents their kids from having any fun?

Its mostly started this fall. He is three, and just turned three in SEpt. Our town's one and only preschool decided to run on the same day and same time as our town's one and only playgroup. Go figure. So since I am running playgroup this year and Iwasn't sure how often I would have the car and my son was JUST three and pretty immature (in underwear but not really going pee by himself, not very good at listening, etc) and high needs I decided that it would be best if he stayed at playgroup. Unfortunately, all the other moms with kids his age who were coming to playgroup put their kids in preschool.

So, he is the oldest kid there, usually, by about four or six months. He's also a pretty aggressive child by nature. Add to this the fact that its been 30 below for the last month and we haven't been outside and the playgroup is held in a big gym and is his only real chance to run around these days. And that I'm distracted because I'm making coffee and washing dishes, etc, etc. And there you have it. Ds starts to run wild.

So I have taken the little push along cars that he crashes into other kids away. I try to redirect his play away from aggressive activities three or four times a week. I have left in the middle of playgroup twice. In the fall I was restraining him in the stroller until we could go becuase he was getting overly agressive.

I am thinking of just keeping him home, but then that means dh has to take the morning off and stay with him and that he doesn't get any running and playing type excersise all week long.

I have already told him that he is staying home next week since he was so abysmally behaved this week, so I guess we'll see after that. Any other suggestions?


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

No ideas today.

But, I wanted to say how happy it makes other moms to know that you aren't blind to all of this. Moms get more annoyed when they think you don't notice, or don't care. But, I bet if they can see how much you want to help him be a better friend, they will help also.

Maybe you could ask the other Moms for some help with this?


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I think social activities are optional for three year olds. If he is making it miserable for himself and everyone else, then don't do it. Quit, or take a long break, and relax.

I do agree with you that he needs active time though. Can you get ahold of a schedule for said gym, and figure out if it is ever available for free play? Or find a church with a recreation hall? What do other mom's do with restless older children in your town?

How about a mini-trampline or treadmill in your house?


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## dflanag2 (Oct 4, 2005)

Over here our DS turned 3 in August, and we are seeing similar behavior: agressive, hitting, ordering other kids around, and most recently we've escalated to acting out (Running wild, biting (only me so far...), being destructive, Knocking books off shelves at the library, and one day he started stripping off his clothes, which he has never done before.









We didn't start him in preschool either, because he seems so young emotionally.

DS seems to have some extremely intense emotions and is having trouble processing them in acceptable ways. At this point I have pulled him from a tumbling class (45 min of exercise not worth the 30+ min spent in complete meltdown mode after class is over) and we can't walk two blocks to the grocery store without some sort of meltdown (running away, refusing to walk, protesting to being carried, etc.) I am hoping he will be more interested in the class later this spring.

Part of it for us is that DS isn't very good at identifying when he is hungry or thirsty. At meals he will eat only just enough to pacify his hunger pangs, then will go and play. We encourage him to listen to his tummy and eat more, and it seems like I can't go anywhere for any amount of time (even 20 minutes) without a full array of snacks and water.

DS is definitely spirited, and I think that our indoor gym time is a little overstimulating for him. We generally go for less time than the full 2 hours they hold it.

I find that DS does better interacting with other kids when he is outside (I know, not an option when it is 30 below...) also he does better (not great) when he is playing one on one with a friend at home. This is what he asks for every day. "Mom? Can a friend come over and play with me today?"

I am looking forward to further suggestions...

-dflanag2


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## KindRedSpirit (Mar 8, 2002)

I just wanted to offer, that i was an "other" mom in this scenario and my kids were being "bugged" by a girl with this behavior.It was very helpful that we could see the moms recognition of the issue, and her techniques.I learned a lot about being a good mom from this woman, and grew to be a friend of her daughter too.I would suggest asking for some help from the other moms either with your child, or with the tasks taking your attention away.Or bring a "mothers helper" to be with your child,and then you can socialize with other moms there,which is 1/2 of the point of a playgroup.Good luck!


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

You might consider putting him in preschool with his peers so he can get that energy out and be in a setting with kids at his same developmental level. Many three year olds need to be reminded to go potty and need to have help listening. They also tend to embarass you and make other mothers think poorly of you when you lead any group situation no matter how much attention you lavish on them before hand. I don't know why this is, maybe because by nature they are not into sharing or working things out nicely with their peers and they realize that they don't have to do these things when you lead a group or maybe its a Newton's law type of thing. You and he will probably be much happier if he is somewhere were he can interact with his peers and where he is redirected when he is aggressive rather than just put in the stroller or brought home early. It is just so much easier to lead a group and at least appear confident and relaxed when your child isn't batting other kids away from whatever toy they try to play with no matter how appealing that toy was before a baby headed towards it.


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## earthgodd3ss (Feb 12, 2008)

Does he have much sugar in his diet? Or does he watch much t.v.? These can be HUGE factors in aggressive behavior.


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## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

I had this lil guy







It's hard, because the thing they need the most, socialization, is often very difficult to get due to their aggression. One thing that helpd ENORMOUSLY was to get DS off all artificial colors and flavors. I didn't go 100% on the Feingold diet, but eliminating those items and BHT, BHA and TBHQ was enough to mellow him out so that he could at least hear me.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

why not let him run around before playgroup? (take him to the mall or somewhere indoors!) this is what i have to do with my almost 4yo. It helps ALOT!


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## darien (Nov 15, 2005)

I have only commiseration, not good advice, because I'm practically you.









My high needs ds was 3 in Oct. We tried preschool, and it was a disaster.

I run our town playgroup, too, and my ds is almost always the oldest kid there. Fortunately, he's usually agressive only with his "little brother" (the 2 year old I take care of). Still, he's loud and energetic, and I live in fear that he's going to mow down the toddle-tots that surround him.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Could you bow out of the coffee duties?


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## jilly (Feb 14, 2005)

I guess I could cut back on tv again. He's an early early waker, and I usually let him watch an hr of tv in the mornings so I can sleep until 5:30 or 6am. I might do that, actually.

We don't eat a lot of sugar, and almost all our foods are natural, usually home made (so not many preservatives or colours in our diet). I've already taken him off dairy, penut butter, and all really acidic foods (like strawberries and tomatos). I don't think we could bear to cut out any more foods right now.

The thing is that the other mom who shares coffee duty with me also has a spirited child, and at least one of us ends up leaving early every week . . .

In any case, thanks for all the encouragement. Maybe I'll just tell them that I can start coffee, but I can't do the craft / snack anymore because its too difficult to supervise my child at the same time. Some of them are pretty anxious about my son's behavior, so I think they would probably prefer that to being asked to help with his behavoir.


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## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jilly* 
We don't eat a lot of sugar, and almost all our foods are natural, usually home made (so not many preservatives or colours in our diet). I've already taken him off dairy, penut butter, and all really acidic foods (like strawberries and tomatos). I don't think we could bear to cut out any more foods right now.

I know







it can be really hard. We were pretty much in the same boat- no garbage, but still some episodes where DS was spinning out of control. I think you can find a list showing the salicylate content of many natural foods, and that might actually give you more choices. I know for DS there was a period when I dreaded giving him anything







for fear of triggering an episode. But once I had a place to start, it was easier and I ended up putting back a lot of things I had taken out before I knew about salicylates. Of course, your DS may not even have a salicylate sensitivity







. But in general when the diet is already clean and there are still marked behavioral issues salicylates are often a culprit. Apples, for instance are high in salicylates, but pears are not. Who knew?!? HTHs!


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## IdahoMom (Nov 8, 2005)

He's getting up at 4:30 and watching cartoons? Is he sleep deprived?

When my daughter was getting up early to watch TV, we started telling her that the TV wouldn't go on until X:XX. She stopped getting up so early.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IdahoMom* 
He's getting up at 4:30 and watching .


OMG!!! You poor thing! I love my sleep. That would make me snap.







:


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## singin'intherain (Feb 4, 2006)

Does it seem like the room full of kids is too much stimulation for him, or is it that he has too much 'big kid' energy and just can't play appropriately with the little ones? I didn't catch how this was for him last year, before the others his age went to preschool.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

I WAS you two years ago! My DS was the oldest kid in Playgroup and I was the one running the show. He was all over the place, bouncing off of the walls, high energy, oblivious to the LO's fleeing in his wake.

And then I turned off the tv. Not just cut back, I turned it OFF for all waking hours. Then I cut out the videos.

It was a lot more work (finding age appropriate things to do, esp) and there was alot of crying and whining for a week or so. Then he accepted it. No tv since. (for him, me and DH are still tv addicts, we just watch after bedtime!)

It really mellowed him out. Also when he was littler I did lots of 'exercise games' right before playgroup. We'd put on Woody Guthrie's 'Songs to Grow By' and do actions to accompany the songs, we'd pretend to be every animal we could think of (running like horses, jumping like kangaroos etc), and we'd play follow the leader (him following me in a circle while we did big steps, little steps, twisty steps, hops, skips, bending down then up and so forth). Then we'd cool down to calm down (pretend to be trees swaying in the wind, flowers growing, little turtles and snails all very slowly), then we'd have a small snack (like toast).

This took us a long way.

Also for the early wake up call, I think he might just stop if he doesn't have anything to wake up that early for. (Positive thinking right?)


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## ckozakiewicz (Jun 21, 2006)

We were at a playgroup recently (me and 20 month old DS) and we had several interactions that were upsetting with a 2.5 yr old little guy. He would hit and run into other children, bite and poke, but not really with malicious intent. He would look genuinely confused when the other kiddos would be hurt.
My thought about this fellow what that he had some sensory integration issues and he was sensory seeking. Kiddos like this often run into other children, squeeze or hug too hard or knock other children down to wrestle with (on) them. They don't really get how that feels to others and are just trying to engage. Does any of this sound familiar to you? If so there are great resources on line. Regardless, I know how challenging it is when your kiddo is the one who is outta control at playgroup









-Clare


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Can you go to the gym an hour or so before anyone else gets there and let him run around to get the physical activity he needs? I have 2 girls and cabin fever is really making a noticeable difference to their behaviour at playgroup. They are much more physical and I think they just need to be able to run more.


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

Just tell the other moms that you can't take care of coffee and supervise your son at the same time. You are right. They'd rather have you watching your son than doing coffee.

Consider also that your son isn't ready for true group play. He might still be in parallel play mode. He needs to race around in circles or play with adults. He just isn't mature enough yet to play with other toddlers.
Kids mature at different rates.

I remember three as being the worst age with both of my kids. It did pass, but slowly...


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## yarngoddess (Dec 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leafylady* 
Just tell the other moms that you can't take care of coffee and supervise your son at the same time. You are right. They'd rather have you watching your son than doing coffee.

Consider also that your son isn't ready for true group play. He might still be in parallel play mode. He needs to race around in circles or play with adults. He just isn't mature enough yet to play with other toddlers.
Kids mature at different rates.

I remember three as being the worst age with both of my kids. It did pass, but slowly...

Oh Mama! We all know how you feel, as we have all been there in one way or another! So sorry that your DS is having some cabin fever issues. I agree with the PP's about going early and letting him run, but I totally disagree with trying to get him into the preschool part. My dead to me brother was put into school early, he made the cutoff date by 1 day, one more day and he would have stayed home another year!, and he struggled with immaturity for years- both emotionally and PHYSICALLY later in his school life.

I think that you should go to the playgroup and have a parent's meeting, and tell them that you have to step down as "coffee/craft coordinator" because of the issues with your own child. I would thank them for all their patience in dealing with your son, and that you are trying to handle the situation as best as you can. I would also talk to the other "coffee mom" and see if she too needs to step down, since more responsibility will fall on her. One of the down sides of parenting a spirited child is that you often don't get to do the things that you want to, so that you are able to care for your DC. It's just one of those things that you have to do in order to care for your DC the way he needs to be cared for.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

My 2 year old (30 months) is "that kid" at daycare apparently. I'm told every day that "Its Paddy's world, we just live in it" from the ladies in his classroom. He is really a great kid IMO. He's pretty obedient for a 2 year old, loves to help clean up and put his toys away, is now 100% potty trained and very consistent, in fact I don't know when he's last had an accident. But Paddy is super-active and doesn't always want to sit at a table and "do something". He will literally run around in circles in his bedroom and playroom at home, just around and around giggling until he's worn out.
I say don't worry about what others think, and be glad your son feels free enough to be an individual. One of the daycare workers actually told me I needed to "make Paddy learn how to sit down. Make him sit in one place for so many minutes every day until he learns." I pretty much told her to bug off and that I didn't agree with her at all. Why would I want to squash my child's spirit? He'll only be this way for so long, he's got his whole life to "conform" to society.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

What time is playgroup? My ds often gets up at 5am
















I put him in gymnastics b/c I thought that would wear him out a little and get him at a group setting but it was in the afternoon and he was just too tired by then.

Also it helped to not run errands before gymnastics and serve him his favorite thing for lunch.

He does better in the mornings. My ds needs to get out and play more than once a week...outside, chuckecheese, mcdonalds playground, walk around stores, etc. If he misbehaves, we leave.

Good luck.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jilly* 
I guess I could cut back on tv again. He's an early early waker, and I usually let him watch an hr of tv in the mornings so I can sleep until 5:30 or 6am. I might do that, actually.

We don't eat a lot of sugar, and almost all our foods are natural, usually home made (so not many preservatives or colours in our diet). I've already taken him off dairy, penut butter, and all really acidic foods (like strawberries and tomatos). I don't think we could bear to cut out any more foods right now.

The thing is that the other mom who shares coffee duty with me also has a spirited child, and at least one of us ends up leaving early every week . . .

In any case, thanks for all the encouragement. Maybe I'll just tell them that I can start coffee, but I can't do the craft / snack anymore because its too difficult to supervise my child at the same time. Some of them are pretty anxious about my son's behavior, so I think they would probably prefer that to being asked to help with his behavoir.

People should understand and appreciate that you need to spend 100% focus on your child. IMO, playgroups don't need to serve snacks or do crafts, etc. let someone else take that on.

I'd try to get there early and let him run out some of his energy in the gym on his own before he other kids come. Try to get him tired out. If the cars are becoming weapons and hurting other kids, don't bring the cars. Bring something soft, like a soft koosh ball or beach ball or something that won't hurt much if it hits another child intentionally or accidentally. Bring several beach balls so there are enough for several kids to play with. You may also want to bring scarves or things to play peek-a-boo or dance with. But think SOFT.

I'd also lay down some ground rules to him for playgroup. The main one being that he plays nicely and doesn't hit or push other kids. He's gentle. And if he pushes or hits on purpose he gets a warning, he apologizes to the kid and if it happens a second time you leave. I think the safety aspect is most important. Other than that, I'd let him run and jump and yell to his heart's content. Plan on you playing with him while he's there because he will need to be engaged and encouraged and supervised. Over time you may get a few minutes break but your focus should be on watching him..... it's hard to do, but necessary if he's still learning how to be gentle.

React calmly to him if he makes a mistake and remind him of the rules and hang in there... it will take patience.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

If you are only redirecting him 3-4 times a week, it doesn't sound that bad at all!!!!







I would talk to him about being gentle and what being gentle means and what is acceptable and not. And give him lots of alternatives for things to do to redirect him to something fun and silly that lets him get his energy out. My 3 year old loves chase games.


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## Limabean1975 (Jan 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
No ideas today.

But, I wanted to say how happy it makes other moms to know that you aren't blind to all of this. Moms get more annoyed when they think you don't notice, or don't care. But, I bet if they can see how much you want to help him be a better friend, they will help also.

Maybe you could ask the other Moms for some help with this?

I have not read the rest of the thread, but I just wanted to jump in and say "ditto" to the above. Especially about asking some other moms for help - just a couple of the ones he knows and you feel have similar parenting style to you. Kids really do often listen to someone else better than their own parents, in this kind of situation. My son is not "that kid" (yet. knock on wood.), but one of his peers is. His mom made it clear that she did not mind if a few of the other moms spoke to him - and it has worked wonders.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ckozakiewicz* 
We were at a playgroup recently (me and 20 month old DS) and we had several interactions that were upsetting with a 2.5 yr old little guy. He would hit and run into other children, bite and poke, but not really with malicious intent. He would look genuinely confused when the other kiddos would be hurt.
My thought about this fellow what that he had some sensory integration issues and he was sensory seeking. Kiddos like this often run into other children, squeeze or hug too hard or knock other children down to wrestle with (on) them. They don't really get how that feels to others and are just trying to engage. Does any of this sound familiar to you? If so there are great resources on line. Regardless, I know how challenging it is when your kiddo is the one who is outta control at playgroup









-Clare









: Make sure it's not an issue of sensory processing disorder. Both my sons have sensory integration issues. Knowing that has really helped me to help my sons - in so many ways. It is worth looking into - just in case.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Could you change the day and time to another where more of the older kids could participate? Also, if he is getting up early, could the playdate be earlier in the day? Focus on healthy snacks, no dairy or wheat, HFCS, artificial colors/flavors/preservatives. Also, consider getting your social needs met in some other way/time, so that you could be available for caregiving and supervising as needed. I get together for MNO with the Holistic Moms Network, for instance.

I just couldn't host during some tough times when ds was so sensory overloaded from the noise of crowds, sharing and a bunch of busy (or younger) children. We can do outdoors with nature and more people. Fewer people and no auditorium type environments with crowds. And sharing was challenging at age 3, at home. So, it really had to be short visits, familiar families and outside for me to get to chat at all. But, when I just focused on engaging with ds, he was able to recenter and participate much longer.

HTH, Pat


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## aprilv (Aug 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IdahoMom* 
He's getting up at 4:30 and watching cartoons? Is he sleep deprived?

When my daughter was getting up early to watch TV, we started telling her that the TV wouldn't go on until X:XX. She stopped getting up so early.

same here- once when dh ws away on a business trip for a week straight, i let ds watch tv first thing in the morning after a rough night. for several days he woke up earlier thn usual, all excited and pointing to the tv. i dragged myself out of bed early for a few days and read to him or played instead and he went back to waking up at his normal time. it may take a few days of extra work but will be worth it if he sleeps in a bit!


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## kittynurse (Jun 29, 2005)

It sounds like a lot of the issues coincided with his friends leaving for preschool and you running the playgroup. Maybe some of the behaviour is because he has a hard time when you are busy with coffee, craft etc. How was his behaviour last year when you had more time to spend with him at the group?

I agree with the PPs that maybe you need to step down from your duties. I speak from experience - my DS was *that* kid at one point - and it took pretty much constant supervision from me in any kind of social situation.

We've worked a lot with him as well as determining that he most likely has sensory issues and he is now starting to blossom in preschool. If he does start to "act up" it tends to be when he is feeling like he needs more "mummy time".

Hang in there!


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