# Front or rear facing



## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

My ds is 19 months, 27 lbs and about 33 inches tall. Would he be safer in a Scenera rear facing or a Nautilus forward facing? We don't have a lot to spend on carseats so it's either a cheap one now and another cheap one when he outgrows it or a more expensive one now and use it till he's a big kid.

I'm still getting the run around on getting a free carseat (I just got a message yesterday that I need a wic referral), so if I can get one of those I will and I'll wait and get him a Nautilus later.


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## wildhoneypie (Feb 22, 2008)

He meets the age, weight, and height requirements for forward facing. So my vote would be to go that way especially if the forward facing seat your looking at has a better safety rating. Is there a specific reason you would prefer to leave him rear facing at this point?


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

I think it would be ideal to have him rear facing as long as possible. The 12mo 20lb thing is the absolute minimum and he doesn't mind riding rear facing. I know I'm trying to compare apples and oranges with the Scenera vs Nautilus but I'm really torn about what will keep him the safest.

To make matters more complicated, it looks like the free/low cost ones might be Evenflo Titan or Tribute models.


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## s_kristina (Aug 9, 2004)

Do you know how long his torso height is? That would help with the choice of using the Scenera or Nautilus. We plan to get the Nautilus as soon as we can afford it for ds. He is several months older then your son though along with being taller and heavier. We did manage to keep ds rf in the Scenera longer then most other seats would have worked due in large part to his weight, but I don't think that will be an issue for your ds.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Rear-facing, absolutely! RFing is so much safer, regardless of the "quality" of the seat.

That being said, why not buy a seat that can be both used for RF and then for a long time FF?

My suggestions would be to get a Britax Marathon (or Decathlon or Boulevard), a Sunshine Kids Radian 65, or a Evenflo Triumph Advance (must be the Advance model). All of these are convertibles and will allow your son to RF now, and then when he's hit the limits of the seat for RF, you can turn him FF and use that for another few years. By the time he outgrows these seats FF, he'll probably be able to sit in a booster. . .and if not, who knows what'll be on the market then.


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## cognito (Nov 30, 2007)

Sounds like budget is somewhat of an issue. I would keep him RFing to the limits of the Scenera. RFing is safer no matter what. Why not get the full use out of the Scenera beofre switching seats, kwim? You should be able to get some FFing use out of the Scenera too. That would allow more time to plan for the next seat. Also, the Nautilus has a 6yr lifespan so you would probably still need another booster down the road if you switched now since he prabably won't fit the seatbelt properly yet when the Nautilus expires.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildhoneypie* 
He meets the age, weight, and height requirements for forward facing. So my vote would be to go that way especially if the forward facing seat your looking at has a better safety rating. Is there a specific reason you would prefer to leave him rear facing at this point?

NO NO NO NO NO. VERY UNSAFE ADVICE!

A child that young NEEDS to be rear-facing. Forward facing at such a young age is simply not the safest option or even a very safe option.

Rearfacing trumps all. Keep him in the Cosco Scenera rearfacing until he reaches 35 pounds; that will give you plenty of time to save up for the forward facing seat you want at that point


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## CalebsMome (Apr 25, 2007)

"We don't have a lot to spend on carseats so it's either a cheap one now and another cheap one when he outgrows it or a more expensive one now and use it till he's a big kid."

It sounds like you are looking at extended rear facing versus extended harnessing. She said that a it is either the nautlis now or the scerna and a cheaper one later. So with that choice, I know rear facing is better, BUT extended harnessing, mind you this is a 19 month old who weighs 27 lbs, is also very important. ANY cheap forward facing only seat will only harness to 40 lbs versus the 65 of the Nautlis. I"m a carseat nazi, BUT budget is an issue here. I'd vote for the Natulis. Fellow carseat Nazi's back off. If the Nautulis is at the high end of her budget, why suggest a Britax or a Radian? Be reasonable. Yes, extended rear facing IS safer to the limits of the seat, but a kid of this age with this budget, would be better off spending it on the Natulis instead of a Scerna and then a cheaper forward facing seat that would probably see a kid NOT being able to be harnessed past 40 lbs. Unfortunately, that's the choice parents have to make if a $300 seat isn't in the budget. The Nautlis is the cheapest option out there to harness past 65 lbs that will fit this kid now. I know there is the Apex Elite, but the harness slots would probably be too high. The Graco is the best way to go. Go for it!


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

The Graco is definitely NOT the best way to go. I will respectfully ask that you refrain from referring to people who are knowlegeable about child safety restraints as 'nazis'. It is disrespectful to us as well as to the millions who suffered and died at the hands of the actual Nazis.

I am an actual technician, by the way. For an 18 month old who weighs 27 pounds, forward facing is not an acceptable option. It simply is not.

She can rearfacing in a Cosco Scenera for likely another year and a half, and then forward face to the max 40 pounds. She likely has another two years to save up for a higher harnessing weight car seat. Buying a Graco Nautilus now is inappropriate to say the least.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildhoneypie* 
He meets the age, weight, and height requirements for forward facing. So my vote would be to go that way especially if the forward facing seat your looking at has a better safety rating. Is there a specific reason you would prefer to leave him rear facing at this point?

Nope, nope nope. Rear facing is MUCH safer, and there are no such things as safety ratings on car seats.

At that age, definitely leave him RF. What is he in now? Around here WIC gives out Sceneras for $5, so definitely get one of those if you can! And save for a higher-weight seat for the future (Graco Nautilus, Safety 1st Apex, or Britax Regent).


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Refried Beans* 
The Graco is definitely NOT the best way to go. I will respectfully ask that you refrain from referring to people who are knowlegeable about child safety restraints as 'nazis'. It is disrespectful to us as well as to the millions who suffered and died at the hands of the actual Nazis.

I am an actual technician, by the way. For an 18 month old who weighs 27 pounds, forward facing is not an acceptable option. It simply is not.

She can rearfacing in a Cosco Scenera for likely another year and a half, and then forward face to the max 40 pounds. She likely has another two years to save up for a higher harnessing weight car seat. Buying a Graco Nautilus now is inappropriate to say the least.

Thank you. I was just getting on my soap box, but I will step down since it's already been said.







ITA with everything you said here.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CalebsMome* 
If the Nautulis is at the high end of her budget, why suggest a Britax or a Radian? Be reasonable.

I also suggested the EFTA, which can be had for as low as $125, making it cheaper than the Nautilus. It's a good convertible that offers a higher weight limit and high harness height -- I don't see what's so unreasonable about my suggestion.

I did misunderstand and didn't realize that the OP already had a Scenera. I thought she was looking to buy one, in which case I figured that $40 could be better spent towards a bigger seat. But if already has one or can get one very cheaply, then I'd go with that and not worry about a bigger seat until it's outgrown down the line.


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

Thanks for all your information and ideas. Up until last week I thought I knew that my kids were safe in their seats and now I've found out that they probably aren't. Not only do I feel really guilty about possibly putting them at risk unintentionally, I'm totally overwhelmed by all the choices that exist and the fact that the carseats that everyone recommends are way above what we can afford. Yes, budget is a big concern. There is no way that I can spend $300 for 1 carseat, because right now it looks like both my kids need new seats.

My ds is currently in an Evenflo that was made back in Dec 2001. It is supposed to rear face to 30lbs, but his head is getting close to the top of it and the top harness slots are only for forward facing. So besides it being expired or close to it, he's outgrowing it. I asked about it here last week and the Scenera was recommended as a good seat that was also inexpensive.

Now that I was doing more research, I think my dd might also need a new seat. Currently she is in a high back booster with a 5pt harness, but it was also made in 2001 (although she didn't start using it till 2004). The problem is that the harness is only rated to 40lbs. Even though she is 6.5 yo she is just 40lbs although she is 47 inches tall. I wrongfully was assuming that she could use the harness until she outgrew the height of the top slots, so I thought she was ok in it. But going by weight, she really isn't ok. With her being so thin, I really don't feel safe with just using the seat as a belt positioning booster seat. That pretty much means that I need to get her a Nautilus. With her being 6.5yo and it lasting 6 years, she will get full use of it. $150 is a lot of money, but it is the safest choice for her so we will do whatever we can to get her one.

I've been trying since last week to find a local source of a free or low cost seat. I was told by a friend that her friend is a fire fighter and their station gave away free seats, but when I called I was referred to another agency that said they only return messages once a week on Monday. They didn't call Monday, but yesterday she called while I was gone and said that I needed a referral to get a seat so Monday I have to make some calls since we are on wic and the kids get medicaid. It looks like the seats they have are Evenflo Titan or Tributes. Are they as good as a Scenera?

Sorry for the long post, I'm just overwhelmed by all this.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Here is what I would do: bug WIC until you get a referral, or call your local fire department and tell them of your situation. They should be able to give you a seat, or help you out. The Titan is fine







The new ones now RF to 35 pounds, so it should work well for you. He should be able to be in that for at least a couple of years.

Now, for your DD...she needs out of that seat. I would get her a booster, or a Nautilus if you can swing it.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

At 33 inches my ds was too tall to RF in the scenera. I would go sit your child in it in the store and see if it will fit him RFing before purchasing.


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## hix (Mar 16, 2006)

My 27 lb. 18 month old dd is in a rear-facing Fisher Price Safe Voyage Deluxe. I bought it at Albee Baby for $130 with free shipping. In my research on the seat I kept coming up with Britax references...turns out the FPSVD is made by Britax to model the Marathon. Check it out here.
Its huge, but I never question dd's safety. Let us know what you decide!


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
At 33 inches my ds was too tall to RF in the scenera. I would go sit your child in it in the store and see if it will fit him RFing before purchasing.

I doubt it, Evan still fits w/ room at 35.5" and AJ made it to 37" in the Scenera and they are long torsoed.

If you were going to be able to afford the Nautilus, than you can afford the new Evenflo Triumph. It rf to 35# like the Scenera and then ff to 50#. My 4.5yo can still easily sit in it w/ about an inch and 1/2 at least of room left for his torso.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ebr2008007.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ebr2008008.jpg
It's going to be about $130 and can be found at Target, Wal-Mart, etc. Your seats are expired though and your kids need new seats ASAP! I would get your dd a high backed booster at the very least, I like the Evenflo Confidence, but the Graco Air Booster seems nice as well.

For the mom who didn't know why you want your kids to rf for as long as possible and why my 39 mos old is still rfing, watch this.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Well, you can doubt, but we had a scenera for a backup seat in my in-laws car and he was too tall to RF at 33". He has a crazy long torso and humungous head! He also outgrew the seat entirely by 2 1/2.


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## Eris (Sep 11, 2002)

If you can swing the Nautilus for your 6 year old, and can get a seat your 19 month old can rearface in until at least age 2 (preferably longer), then I think you'll be set- when the younger outgrows the convertible seat rearfacing and then forward facing, your 6 year old will very likely be really ready for a belt positioning booster, which you'll be able to get (and this could be about 3 years from now) for around $50, and your younger can go in the Nautilus until it expires (he'll be almost 8), at which time you can evaluate your options, his needs, and your budget.


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
If you were going to be able to afford the Nautilus, than you can afford the new Evenflo Triumph. It rf to 35# like the Scenera and then ff to 50#. My 4.5yo can still easily sit in it w/ about an inch and 1/2 at least of room left for his torso.

For the mom who didn't know why you want your kids to rf for as long as possible and why my 39 mos old is still rfing, watch this.





Thanks for the info on the Triumph, somehow I missed that it went to 50lbs harnessed ff. I will look into that if I can't get one of the free/low cost seats.

And yes, that video and many like it are exactly why I want him to rf as long as possible and to keep dd harnessed as long as possible.


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

Quick update -- Got a referral from wic for a new seat for ds. Now I just have to wait for a call back from Safe Kids. I'll let you know what happens next.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Super! Where are you located? Did you do a search for a technician in your area?


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

Apparently the lady at SafeKids is a technician. The friend of a friend that I talked to who is a firefighter said she is no longer able to do them. Another friend of mine that is a police officer also is on the list, but she isn't able to do them any more either. I know her certification lapsed when she got pg and went to part time. It seems like everybody I talked to said there is just this one person to talk to. I hope she calls back soon.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Yes, that is what SafeKids is--that is who certifies the techs, and as techs we are part of local SK coalitions. There probably will be more in your area--you can do a zip code or city search here.


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

It's funny, every link I use to find a tech turns up a different list. Right now though the only person that gives out carseats is H. So I have to wait for her to call me back. It's kind of frustrating since her answering machine says she returns calls once a week on Monday, but then she called last week on Thursday while I was gone, so I really have no idea what to expect. I'm afraid that she will call today while we are gone.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Good for you for wanting to keep your kids as safe as possible and asking for help!









SO glad you are listening to the educated CPSTs on this thread. RF is at least 4 times safer under age 2.


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayleeZoo* 
Good for you for wanting to keep your kids as safe as possible and asking for help!









SO glad you are listening to the educated CPSTs on this thread. RF is at least 4 times safer under age 2.

Thanks!







It's unbelievable the wealth of knowledge here on MDC. I'm very grateful to the cpsts that come here every day and answer all the questions that are asked. Now if I can only get this all taken care of, I'll feel so much better.


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

Great news! I got an appointment for next Monday to get a carseat for my toddler.










Plus I saw a graco nautilus at Meijer today! I'm hoping that I can get seats for both kids on Monday for only $20 each, but if not my tax return is going toward a Nautilus for dd.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Super! That is great news


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

I emailed the cpst that we'll see Monday and she said that they only have ff harnesses to 40lbs (Evenflo Express). So we'll have to get a Nautilus for dd.

She said that for ds she's bringing an Evenflo Titan 5, that rear faces to 35lbs! I'm so excited!

I'll update again after we get the seats!


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

There's no Titan 5. The only Titan that rf to 35# is the Elite and it ff to 50# (don't see this happening though). Just be sure to check the stickers and manual to make sure of the limits.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Super! I know that here we have a few Titans to give out (the new ones, 35RF/50FF) so hopefully that is what you get!


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
There's no Titan 5. The only Titan that rf to 35# is the Elite and it ff to 50# (don't see this happening though). Just be sure to check the stickers and manual to make sure of the limits.


Ok, that is odd. I will def double check with her. Here is exactly what she said in her email "We use the Evenflo Titan 5 seats, which are rear facing up to 35 lbs and forward facing up to 40 lbs." I guess I'll find out on Monday. At this point, even if it only rf up to 30lbs, it's safer than the outdated/almost outgrown seat he has now and it will buy me some time to get him a better seat. Thanks for bringing that to my attention!


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

You know, I'm just sitting her trying to figure all this out. How come this has to be sooo hard? Am I just that dense? All I want to do is to keep my kids safe and not spend so much money that I won't be able to feed them too. YK?

If the carseat that the tech brings really only goes to 30lbs, should I just save my $20, decline it and stop at Walmart and get a Scenera instead? I'd hate to spend $20 on a carseat and have him outgrow it in a couple months and have to buy yet another new seat. If I'm doing that I might as well get one of the more expensive ones that will last him till he's 50lbs.

Every time I think I know what's going on, I don't. I feel so lost. Thank you Jennifer and Anna for walking me through this. I appreciate it more than I can express with mere words.







to you both!
Jen


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

This might be a long shot, but call all your local Wal-Marts and see if they have any Safety 1st Uptowns left (have them check in the back too). I should've thought of this sooner, but these seats were clearanced out for $22 and rf to 35# and are slightly bigger then the Scenera.


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

Ok, I did a little digging around online and found this order form link on our Safekids website and it says Titan 5 -- convertible -- 5pt harness -- 5-40lbs.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

I just couldn't find a Titan 5 on the Evenflo site, so maybe they stopped making them recently? It still will only rf to 30#.


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

It's really confusing, because I couldn't find them anywhere current either.

On a totally better note, I got the 2nd to the last Nautilus for my dd. I checked online and our state tax return was deposited today. They were all gone at all the Walmarts nearby and I remembered seeing them at Meijer, so we ran over this morning and got one for her. What a relief. I have to put it together tonight.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Glad you got the Nautilus for your DD!

As far as the Titan, the old ones RF to 30 pounds, FF to 40. The new ones RF to 35, FF to 50 but have the same strap heights as the old ones, so probably won't last any longer. There won't be any that both RF to 35 and FF to 40. If they try to give you a 30/40 seat, I would say no thanks and go for the Scenera instead. I'm surprised they give out Titans over Sceneras anyway, since the Sceneras are cheaper.


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

Got the Nautilus put together today. After I bought it, I got a coupon in the newspaper for 15% off any baby item. So I had to take the seat back, return it and repurchase it, but it saved me $24! I got the seat put together, but it's not in the car yet. Ds just woke up from his nap, so I'll have to wait till tonight or tomorrow to hook it up. We aren't going anywhere till tomorrow afternoon anyway.

Thanks again Jennifer and Anna!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Oh that is great!!


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

Ok, my update! I took Ian to the SafeKids carseat check and we did end up getting a new seat. They have the Evenflo Titan Elite Dlx but they call it the Titan 5. The only thing I can think of is that they have a contract for Titan 5 so that's what they call this even though it's exactly like the Dlx I saw in the store. This is exactly what ours looks like. So it does rearface to 35lbs. I'm so happy!!

It was interesting, I got to help educate the police officer who was helping. He was confused as to why I wasn't turning ds around. I explained the 12mo/20lb guide was the bare minimum and how much safer it was to rear face until they are much older. I also had ds in the outboard position and dd was in the middle (since she was in a less protective seat until I got the Nautilus this week). The officer installed ds in the middle now.

I thought that they would take my old seat since it was so old, but she told me to take it home and I could use it for another few years (she said that they could be used 7-10 years?!?) I told her that everything I had read said 6yrs on avg. She maintained that up to 10yrs was ok, but that since ds was so big, I'd have to use it ff. I'll keep it for a little while just in case something drastic happens and we need an emergency back up, but I wonder why she was so sure that a 10yo seat would still be ok.

I guess this is my last question for you Jennifer and Anna, now with dd in a Nautilus and ds in the Titan Dlx, who should be where? I tried to put the Nautilus in the middle but it seemed to tip to the side a bit and I got a much more solid install by moving her over. Now with her seat and his touching, I noticed that her arm rest was pushed up a bit and I can't seem to snap it down. I was in a hurry though so I'll try again tomorrow. If I can't get it to solidly snap in, would it be better to move ds so they are both on the outsides or should I leave him in the middle?


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

She is wrong, car seats expire after 6 years.

As far as placement goes, generally speaking you want the least protected in the most protected spot, like you said. In this case the 'least protected' would be your DD since she is FF. However, she is very very safe in her 5pt harness, so really if you can't get a secure install with one in the center, having both outboard would be fine. I actually have both kids RF, with the baby outboard and my 2.5 yo in the center, since she can climb into her own seat







On long trips I move her outboard, because otherwise they tend to get bored and pick on one another.


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

Thanks Anna!


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