# Police use Taser on 11 yo @ my ds school



## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

I know this is a school subject, but I am trying to figure out exactly what to do about it, so I thought that activism would be a good spot.

I recently learned of a situation that occured at my ds school that I find very disturbing.

Quote:

*The boy was one of three students a second-floor classroom when he grabbed a 5 1/2-inch-long metal compass around 9 a.m. Monday and started tearing up Room 214, according to the police report.
The boy, whose name police have not released, broke windows to the outside and panes in the door, ripped apart an overhead projector and ransacked the classroom, police said. He lashed out at Fullerton and her aide who fled the room with the other two students, police said.
* *The boy, just placed in his third foster home in three weeks, also had acted violently at school the Friday before, police said.
* * *School Police Division Capt. authorized use of the taser.
* *"We couldn't get close enough to use pepper spray, and with the sharp object in the kid's hand, we couldn't feel safe tackling him," she said. "We were not about to shoot him."
* *According to the narrative Hunt filed in the police report, he asked the boy three times to drop the compass. Instructed to fire the Taser and its accompanying 50,000-volt charge if the boy appeared ready to throw something at the officers, Hunt pulled the trigger without warning when the boy walked toward him with his hand raised. Struck in the left upper chest, the boy fell immediately and was handcuffed.
So, in essence the cops shot a kid full of electricity.







I do not feel that was a proper way to deal w/ the situation, however my real problem lies here.....

Quote:

Assistant Superintendent said the boy was part of the state Day & Residential Treatment Services program for students with behavioral problems. She went to the school after the incident to talk to teachers and said the school sent a letter home to parents.
Well, this incident occured on Oct. 4th - 9 days ago and I haven't heard a word about it. I had read a thread on MDC about the indy media stations being shut down and wanted to learn more about my local site so when I went looking for info about that I came across this story. This is not the way I should have found out about such a violent situation at my ds school. I have talked to other parents who also have not heard anything about this. I have been composing an email to send to our principal about this situation. Any suggestions as to what I should inquire about?

Thanks in advance....


----------



## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

I have spent 5 years doing social work and can only imagine this little 11 year old completely losing it. There is so much going on for children who are in foster care (for children in general!). I can't even image police using a taser on him. I wonder who he was endangering other than himself? Regardless, I would have a very hard time finding a situation that I would consider this reaction reasonable. Sorry I don't have much to offer right now but hugs. I know somewhere in my pregnancy fogged brain I have the information you need!


----------



## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

WOW!! That's awful on soo many levels.. If he was the only person in the room.. What REALLY was the issue.. And being a foster care child.. I mean.. Usually that means you are coming from some issues at home to begin with.. I would absolutely contact my school and the super-intendent.. I think because it didn't make it to your mainstream media they were hoping no one would find out about it.. That's why the didn't send that "note to the parents"..

Best of Luck..

Warm Squishy FEelings..

Dyan


----------



## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

MamaJessica - it is just heartbreaking, huh? couldn't some steps have been takin to talk to him or calm him down? I am sickened by the system and I am appalled at the use of such excessive force..

I wanted to add the things that I have come up with to talk with the principal about.

*It was reported that the same child had a violent outburst 3 days earlier.* Why was he allowed to return to school without documentation that some form of intervention had taken place?*

*What steps are being taken to prevent a repeat of Friday's violence?*

*Was there a school-wide lockdown during this incident?

If not, who decided a lockdown wasn't necessary and why?*

*Why haven't I beem informed of this?*

*The news report I read about quoted the assistant superintenant as saying that a note went home to parents. I have not received said note. When will I be receiving that?*

I feel like I am missing important aspects of this situation so if anyone can think of other perspectives I would greatly appreciate it.


----------



## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

I am a former special education teacher at schools for students with behavior problems...I'm having no problem seeing the picture described as I have been through several similiar situations none of which involved the use of a Tasar though...I thought that was alarming...one question you might want to ask is why no one at your son's school is CPI or TCI trained. Those are the two most highly held crisis and deescalation programs in use in the mental health field...my best guess for why no one has been notified is that he is probably a special education student and is protected by confidentiality...the school, by law, cannot release any information about him or the incident except to the people directly involved...while as a parent you want to be in the know about what goes on at school, it wouldn't be fair to the student in question to have 500 (or however many there are) parents shaking their heads and telling their students not to play with him...My guess is he was allowed to return to school because special education students can only be suspended for a maximum of 10 school days per year and we are only in October....Also without a manifestation hearing a longer suspension cannot occur. And if the outburst was a manifestation of his disability (my guess is emotional/behavioral disorder) then he cannot be suspended for it he would have to be placed in an alternative program...If you want to get involved and help I'm sure the day treatment school mentioned could use volunteers. Also, mentors make a world of difference in the lives of kids like that. Hope this information helps.

Happy Fall Y'all,

Jenne


----------



## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

11 year old...TASER...
NOT OK.
Can we say "excessive use of force"?????


----------



## whimsy (Aug 6, 2004)

What a terrible situation. On so many levels.

A Taser? Wow. That's all I can say. I don't have words.

I have such a soft spot for the teachers that work with these kids. I see them with bruises and even broken bones. And that's from elementary age kids.

The safety of the other kids in the school also has to be considered. My daughter was knocked down and kicked repeatedly (ending with a broken collar bone) in the 3rd grade by a student with behavior disorder. Because the school wasn't on the ball in preventing that situation, that little boy was labeled by all the other kids as "the one who hurt Cailtin" Caitlin even felt sorry for him. I explained to her that all he had ever seen was violence and it didn't seem bad to him. I was proud of her for her compassion, but I also don't want her to think it was OK for a man (or boy) to hit her - ever.

My point is - it's hard to balance a violent child's privacy and other children's safety. I hope you will post with the school's answer to the situation.


----------



## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jenne*
one question you might want to ask is why no one at your son's school is CPI or TCI trained. Those are the two most highly held crisis and deescalation programs in use in the mental health field...

This is a really good point and one I also want to bring up w/ the principal. Why did the police need to get involved? Isn't there someone within the program already trained to deal with this type of violent behavior? I highly doubt this is the first time something has ever happened.

Thanks for the help, guys.


----------



## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsy*
What a terrible situation. On so many levels.

A Taser? Wow. That's all I can say. I don't have words.

I have such a soft spot for the teachers that work with these kids. I see them with bruises and even broken bones. And that's from elementary age kids.

The safety of the other kids in the school also has to be considered. My daughter was knocked down and kicked repeatedly (ending with a broken collar bone) in the 3rd grade by a student with behavior disorder. Because the school wasn't on the ball in preventing that situation, that little boy was labeled by all the other kids as "the one who hurt Cailtin" Caitlin even felt sorry for him. I explained to her that all he had ever seen was violence and it didn't seem bad to him. I was proud of her for her compassion, but I also don't want her to think it was OK for a man (or boy) to hit her - ever.

My point is - it's hard to balance a violent child's privacy and other children's safety. I hope you will post with the school's answer to the situation.

Your poor little girl! That is so sad to me. I am amazed at her ability to be so compassionate at such a young age. And you are totally right, it is hard to balance privacy/safety. I don't have the answer, I was sort of hoping that the school did, darnit!

I will definitely let you know what the school's response to this is.


----------



## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

"Assistant Superintendent said the boy was part of the state Day & Residential Treatment Services program for students with behavioral problems."

The whole situation does not make sense to me given this statement. I work in special education. Students in Day and residential treatment programs DO NOT go to class with regular students. They have their own special classes with teachers who are trained in crisis management, restraints, etc. Obviously you want to physically restrain a child as little as possible. How about grabbing his hand that is holding the compass and then restraining him? Surely that was possible? How about a policeman with a bulletproof vest on doing it so that he couldn't get stabbed in his vital areas?

It seems like as soon as he started, everyone left the class and just called the cops. He should be in a program where the staff is trained to deal with these incidences without having to resort to police with tasers. They should also be trained to look for antecedents to such behavior. I'm SURE that this didn't happen completely out of the blue. Something happened in the class that got him upset and it wasn't deescalated before it turned into this.

Something is wrong with that system.


----------



## mamadawg (Jun 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brookely ash*
This is a really good point and one I also want to bring up w/ the principal. Why did the police need to get involved? Isn't there someone within the program already trained to deal with this type of violent behavior?

Probaby not, in these economic times. I'd really like to know what the principal says, but I suspect it has something to do with the lack of school funding & programs having been cut in the PDX school district. They probably can't afford the training you're talking about.

I'm really sorry about this. I heard about this on the news and thought it was horrible. That school was the last neighborhood we lived in before moving to the west side and it hit close to home, just because we used to walk past it all the time. Do you know if the boy is ok?

I think you should cc the letter to the school board and even send a copy to the Oregonian and/or WW. Keep us posted, please. I'd like to know what comes of this.


----------



## whimsy (Aug 6, 2004)

Here in Missouri, they are trying a new idea out in our school district. We are 100% "included" ALL children are in the regular classroom. No matter what. Kids that need extra help have aides that stay with them.


----------



## KarenEMT (Aug 10, 2002)

OMG - that is just appalling! To use that thing on an 11 year old...

Please read this link:
http://www.wound-ballistics.com/pages/4/

Kris Lieberman was in my high school class and is now DEAD because the cops used the Taser on him twice.


----------



## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

Hey Mamadawg - when you saw this story on the news, did you see the classroom? I heard from a friend that the boy was really out of control and totally destroyed the room. I also heard (and this is why I am getting so damn frustrated) that there was a picture of the letter supposedly sent home to parents. WHERE IS MY LETTER?? I have so many questions about this and I am hoping that the letter explains some of it. I am new to the school, but I have a hard time beleiving that they would really just leave parents hanging.

Pikku - thanks for your input. From what I can gather, the boy was in the room with only two other students and 1 teacher. I don't think he was in the main population of the school, yet - due to lack of information from the school, I do not know for sure. I have no idea if the boy is ok or not. I a feeling really sad about all of this.


----------



## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

While I agree that the use of a taser is extreme and that preventing this sort of thing should have been the #1 priority for this school, I don't think things are always as simple as restraining the hand that was holding the sharp object. At our last residence, we lived next door to a 12yo who was 5'9" and 150 lbs.

Also, I don't think the police officer was totally out of line using the taser in self-defense, which is what happened. The boy came toward him with a 6-inch long sharp object in a raised hand. It's too bad this kid is so messed up. It looks like a lot of people have dropped the ball with him, but that doesn't mean a police officer should be wounded or dead.


----------



## chicagomom (Dec 24, 2002)

********** superintendent approves taser use in schools
Tuscon police use taser on 9 yo girl
Police use taser on pregnant woman

I think the police are doing the best they can, but surely there must be restrictions on using these things on children.


----------



## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

My daughter use to get her hearing tested at our local special school. This school was for children who were physically or mentally unable to attend regular class rooms. There were people who could subdue a child (physically if necessary), that was their job and they were mostly male. I once saw a male early puberty teen go after a female teacher with a fork. They physcally restrained him for everyones safety with out a tazer. I think it could be done but remember a compass can be a sharp dangerous instrument. The amount of teaching supplies they could be out of (plus damage to himself) could be huge. If this kid would have hurt himself his parents would have a lawsuit.

*BUT IN SAYING THAT* Depending on this child/ren's size actually depends on his cabablity to harm. I have seen some pretty big 11 year old boys and girls. I also have a 10 year old boy that is pretty small. I have wrestle him for fun, there would be no way I could subdue him in the situation described. He is pretty strong for his size.

My brother use to work in a nursing home. I have seen pictures of wait these frail old people have done to him. I have another friend that works with special ed. He has some war stories. So as horrible as it sounds for an 11 year old to be hit with a tazar I can also see there to be a need.

I live in MO also. Many of our schools are 100% inclussive. It can take ALOT to get a mentally ill child out of the classroom because they have rights also.


----------



## mamadawg (Jun 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brookely ash*
Hey Mamadawg - when you saw this story on the news, did you see the classroom? I heard from a friend that the boy was really out of control and totally destroyed the room. I also heard (and this is why I am getting so damn frustrated) that there was a picture of the letter supposedly sent home to parents. WHERE IS MY LETTER?? I have so many questions about this and I am hoping that the letter explains some of it. I am new to the school, but I have a hard time beleiving that they would really just leave parents hanging.

No, I didn't see the classroom. I saw the story on at least 2 local news reports and I don't remember them showing the classroom in either one of the stories.


----------



## mamadawg (Jun 23, 2004)

brookley ash, here's a link to the story in the Pdx Tribune (it does mention a letter going out to parents): http://www.portlandtribune.com/archview.cgi?id=26609

The poor boy is in his 3rd foster home.









I'd definitely contact the school and find out where your letter is.


----------



## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

I just sent a very polite email to the extremely busy principal requesting a copy of the letter and explaining that I was not pleased to find out about this situation from the news. Hopefully they will be getting back to me pronto.

Thanks for the link, Mamadawg. This whole thing is really sad. 3 foster homes in 3 weeks is unbeleivable.

:cry


----------



## mamadawg (Jun 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brookely ash*
I just sent a very polite email to the extremely busy principal requesting a copy of the letter and explaining that I was not pleased to find out about this situation from the news. Hopefully they will be getting back to me pronto.

Thanks for the link, Mamadawg. This whole thing is really sad. 3 foster homes in 3 weeks is unbeleivable.

:cry

You're welcome. Please keep us posted if you find anything out. When I first heard the story on the news, I thought "oh, how horrible." But finding out a little about what this kid has gone through makes me really sad.









And I'm sorry I spelled your name wrong, brookely ash.


----------



## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Keep us informed as to what the school says. After reading that article, it makes me wonder even more what the protocal will be for avoiding another tasing.
and FWIW, I have done social work in Washington and Oregon. While working in Oregon, I worked with very aggressive teenage males and was never given crisis training (physical crisis, that is!) and while working in Washington in community mental health, I had yearly CPI training. I wonder if the requirements in Oregon for crisis training are weak? Although I don't believe that training would have necessarily stopped this incident, it may have deescalated had someone (school counselor, etc) been able to feel confident intervening.


----------



## Quindin (Aug 22, 2003)

That's awful!! I am so tired of how in this country they treat children like they would adults when it comes to aledged crimes.


----------



## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

Well, I got a response from our school principal rather quickly. She replied to me about 3 hours after I sent my email. Unfortunately, I received the email at work and today I am at home. So, I am unable to copy and paste it but here are the highlights....

She said due to confidentiality, she is unable to disclose any more information than I would have already aquired from reading the news sources around town. So, she offered me no more info than I have found myself. She went on to say that the boy was in a special program and he was not within the main population of school. Nor would he have been at any point that day. She said that she did send a letter home but after speaking with my sons teacher realized that his teacher never sent the note home (thanks a lot, teacher







) So, in short.... I didn't get too much information out of her. I do know that the Police are the ones who decided to use the taser, not the school. Although, supposedly the school approved of it.

I am still feeling quite frustrated by this situation and I plan on going to the next PTA meeting to find out more. Unfortunately, there was a meeting last night but I had already commited to doing childcare for a preschool coop meeting elsewhere so I couldn't attend.

I do think it is important for her to honor the confidentiality of the child. She could be the type to totally sensationalize the situation, but she seems to be trying to deal with it as openly as she can. There is absolutly no way that the school district has the money to properly handle at risk children. On november 2, we will find out if our kids have to be done with school in April or if they will get to stay through June. It amazes me how little the school district has to spend. The whole thing just makes me so sad....







So many kids are going to get lost in the cracks.

Well, thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. If I learn of anything else, I will let you all know.


----------



## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Thanks for the update Ash. I feel so sad about Portland schools. I wonder how such a progressive town can have so many funding issues for basics like school and social services...
Take Care


----------



## Victorian (Jan 2, 2003)

Hi B.A. I too am worried about this situation. I have been frustrated with this school since day one (as you know).

I'm sorry, but that boy did have contact with children just walking down the hall. What if he had a sharp object in his pocket and decided to act up while our children were on the way to the library? It scares me to death.

I guess the whole "letter" was just a lie?

V.


----------



## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

Hey victorian - long time no see, huh? Jack is sick and I think Tosh is on the way also. blah!

I thought the same exact thing about the library! Thats upstairs near that classroom, right? I am really worried about the whole thing. Not just our school or our class - but the whole effin distcrict! Anyway - the principal told me that she asked our teacher about the "letter" and that the teacher forgot to send it home. Was it in today's envelope? We were not there, so I have no way of knowing yet.

And did we miss anything good?

As for the Portland Public School system, I can say from experience - it sucks! It failed both my sister and myself. What I mean by that is both of us dropped out of high school before we even got into the 10th grade. Sad, huh?


----------



## chicagomom (Dec 24, 2002)

Another one - this one was six.

Quote:

MIAMI - A 6-year-old boy was subdued with a Taser while wielding a piece of glass and threatening to hurt himself in the principal's office, officials said Thursday.
...
Principal Maria Mason called 911 after the child broke a picture frame in her office and waved the piece of glass, holding a security guard back.

When two Miami-Dade County police officers and a school officer arrived, the boy had already cut himself under his eye and on his hand.

The officers talked to the boy without success. When he cut his own leg, one officer shocked him with a Taser, then another grabbed him to prevent him from falling, police said.
...
Retired Juvenile Judge Frank Orlando called the incident "ridiculous."

"It just sounds excessive to me to Taser gun a 6-year-old when everyone else around there were adults," said Orlando, who now runs a law clinic on youth law at Nova Southeastern University. "They couldn't subdue a 6-year-old? Must have been a pretty big kid."
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...0158641.htm?1c


----------



## CryPixie83 (Jan 27, 2004)

Just saw on Yahoo news that in Miama police have shocked a 12 year old girl as well. She had skipped school, was swimming and drinking. The cop was taking her to his car to take her back to school and the girl bolted. She was about to run into traffic so he shocked her.







:


----------



## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

I guess it is going to become the normal, huh? Its really freaky!


----------



## heldt123 (Aug 5, 2004)

I am not trying to inflame anyone here. My husband is a police officer and he had to be tased as part of the taser training program. Police officers need to worry about thier own safety as well as the safty of others. Using a taser is a quick way to control a hazardous situation with little or no injury. I would be more concerned about why this child was going bezerk and try to remedy that rather than worring about the taser used by the police officer. It is better to be tased than to be sprayed with mase or hit with the batton. My husband also had to experience both of those methods in training by the way.


----------



## CryPixie83 (Jan 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heldt123*
It is better to be tased than to be sprayed with mase or hit with the batton.

It's better not to use violence towards _children_ at all. There are very few reasons to use a taser on a first-grader. He had a piece of glass, not a gun. Why weren't less dramatic tactics exhausted before going to such an extreme? The 12 y/o girl posed to threat to the officer. Yes she was running toward traffic, couldnt he simply have grambed her arm?


----------



## mamadawg (Jun 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CryPixie83*
It's better not to use violence towards _children_ at all.









Thank you for saying this. It needs to be repeated:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CryPixie83*
It's better not to use violence towards _children_ at all.


----------



## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

I just read this article this morning, and thought of this thread.

How easily a child could be killed this way...


----------



## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

whenever there is a new post to this thread I get anxious...I see now why. This is really a very serious problem that is getting largely "ignored". If adults are dying due to tasers, please never ever use them on children. It's just so basic...


----------



## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

The chil dneeds to be held, to be told I Love you and knows it was meant. He needs to hear, I believe in you and I will be here for you.
He needs somebody to take some of his monsters away.


----------



## Benji'sMom (Sep 14, 2004)

What were they supposed to do, let him stab the police, the teacher, the aid, other students? A student at the school that DH teaches at just bit a teacher and punched her in the face-and gave her a black eye- during a fight the other day. Am I the only one who thinks the ADULTS don't deserve to be treated with such violence? If they couldn't tackle him, then they couldn't tackle him. What were they supposed to do? Let themsleves be beaten up and stabbed? Yeah, it SUCKS, and the kid obviously needs help and it SUCKS that he's in his 3rd foster home. But saying that the POLICE acted improperly is BS- what would YOU have done in that situation? Let the boy beat the sh** out of you?


----------



## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

Honestly, I have been in that situation(at least very similar) except the guy was 2x my size, and had Downs Syndrome and was about 30. He got a little too excited about something, grabbed a pole, tried to hit some kids with it, and I restrained him after getting th ekids to safety. After a few minutes, he was able to be calm, as he was laying face down on the concrete with two hands behind his back and me on top of him, I offered to give him an icecream from my shop, he ate it and gave me a peck on the cheek









The poor guy( these guys don't know thier own stregnth) I teied to be as gentle as I could with him as he WAS out of control, and I was. No taser here









Moral of the story, the police are (hsould be!) properly trained to use constraints on a person at all costs(unless with a gun) . In fact I KNOW they are because I have trained with them. I know they know how to control a situation such as this one in the OP with out using such force.

I support the police, I just don't always support thier methods.....


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

brookley ash, dear, I think you need to look into homeschooling all of your children.

NOW

The same thing happened to my son's school, and I live in a very upscale community which has no busing.


----------



## grisandole (Jan 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *charmarty*
Honestly, I have been in that situation(at least very similar) except the guy was 2x my size, and had Downs Syndrome and was about 30. He got a little too excited about something, grabbed a pole, tried to hit some kids with it, and I restrained him after getting th ekids to safety. After a few minutes, he was able to be calm, as he was laying face down on the concrete with two hands behind his back and me on top of him, I offered to give him an icecream from my shop, he ate it and gave me a peck on the cheek









The poor guy( these guys don't know thier own stregnth) I teied to be as gentle as I could with him as he WAS out of control, and I was. No taser here









Moral of the story, the police are (hsould be!) properly trained to use constraints on a person at all costs(unless with a gun) . In fact I KNOW they are because I have trained with them. I know they know how to control a situation such as this one in the OP with out using such force.

I support the police, I just don't always support thier methods.....

Ditto. I worked at a group home for teen/young adult males. I had to restrain them on occasion, and they were all much bigger than I was! I had some training, but I'm sure not as much a police officer. The kid didn't have a gun.

I think they are using tazers out of laziness.

Kristi


----------



## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

AppleJuice - did you decide to homeschool after that incident? I am a part time WOH mom and I don't know if I could really homeschool with my crazy schedule.

Its insane to me that tazing a child (or anyone really) is becoming "normal". I do not have all of the answers and I wasn't there, but something tells me that there is a slippery slope we are all going down in regards to violence against children. It makes me sad and a little scared at the same time.

Charmarty - great post, thanks for the perspective. And thanks everyone for your input.


----------



## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Benji'sMom*
What were they supposed to do, let him stab the police, the teacher, the aid, other students? A student at the school that DH teaches at just bit a teacher and punched her in the face-and gave her a black eye- during a fight the other day. Am I the only one who thinks the ADULTS don't deserve to be treated with such violence? If they couldn't tackle him, then they couldn't tackle him. What were they supposed to do? Let themsleves be beaten up and stabbed? Yeah, it SUCKS, and the kid obviously needs help and it SUCKS that he's in his 3rd foster home. But saying that the POLICE acted improperly is BS- what would YOU have done in that situation? Let the boy beat the sh** out of you?

I don't think you understand how restraint works. Teachers who work with students like that little boy are trained in how to use restraints even when the students are twice their size. Restraint training teaches adults how to restrain children, even when holding something like a pencil or piece of glass, so that no one gets hurt. It may be that the teacher at your DH's school wasn't trained in this but teachers who work with kids at risk in special programs are. And if the teacher that was in the room with the boy (in the article, not the one you're talking about) wasn't trained, there was someone on the campus who was, and she could have locked him in the room while she got that person or two.

I go to school with young, slender women who work with adolescent boys who get violent and they restrain them pretty easily due to their training. You don't have to be that strong - it's all about technique.

So no, there is no need to sit silently and be beat up. While you aren't supposed to handle children unless you have training, you can get someone who is trained, and you also have the obligation to use restraint if necessary when you are certain that harm will come to that student or others.


----------



## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Fla. Officer Uses Taser on 12-Year-Old Boy


----------



## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

Where the he!! is that feeling sick to my stomache smilie????


----------



## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

Wow! That is so sad. I am having a really hard time with this. I KNOW that there is training given to cops on ways to deal with people in dangerous situations like this one, so why is the tazing of children becoming the norm.









Quote:

in November, a Miami-Dade County police officer used a Taser on a 12-year-old girl who was caught skipping class. Officials said the officer faces disciplinary action for inappropriately using his Taser.
Skipping school? Give me a break, sheesh.

Quote:

Two months ago, a Miami-Dade schools security officer used a Taser on a 6-year-old-boy. The boy was holding a shard of glass and had cut himself.
Is there really no way for a cop to safely deal with a 6 year old boy? It seems like things were being accomplished BEFORE tazers were invented, so is it a tool of convienence?

Can someone tell me whether or not cops have these in other countries? Canada, Australia, UK, Russia, Mexicoetc etc?????


----------



## Benji'sMom (Sep 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PikkuMyy*
I don't think you understand how restraint works. Teachers who work with students like that little boy are trained in how to use restraints even when the students are twice their size.

I don't think you understand how school works. Just because they have problem kids in the school, it doesn't mean that anyone is trained to handle it. They should be, it would be best for everyone obviously, but it's just not always done. So then what? Nobody goes to work to be hit and threatened. As for the police, if they felt that the taiser was less harmful than trying to grab to a kid who was already going berzerk with a weapon, then that's okay with me. It's not like the kid was sitting their reading "See Spot Run" when he got tasered. He was already being violent. I'm sorry if you think I'm stupid for respecting the police. Oh well.


----------



## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

WOW, I think you are really being condescending Benji's mom.
I think *my* whole point was that there are so many other ways for the police to handle that. Pleazze!! Just this weekend I grabbed a guy out of his TRUCK that was driving irraatically and wad totally drunk. now his truck was a bigger weapon than anything that boy had! If I can do it, so can they! I have seen far too many times when I have seen the cops for myself to use unjust force on ppl. Now they are usuing it on children







I can't understand HOW you would think this is OK?


----------



## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

UPDATE ON MSN!!!!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10682683/

very interesting... makes me very nervous about ds's school.

i haven't finished reading, but i wanted to put this link up right away.


----------



## Mylittlevowels (Feb 16, 2005)

There has GOT to be a better way. And if there are disturbed children enrolled in a school, YES there should be someone trained to deal with them!!
Tasers, from what I know, are pretty iffy as far as safety - 50,000 volts, good Lord.
Reading the article reminded me of my dear nephew







He's fifteen and has been in foster care since the age of 7 after setting fire to his bed. He talks frequently about building bombs to blow up the world...was anybody else struck by the fact that the kid was so tiny? When I was 11, I was a foot taller than him and at least 100 lbs...did they really need to use a freakin taser?


----------



## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chicagomom*
Another one - this one was six.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...0158641.htm?1c


So, they didn't want to kid to hurt himself with a piece of glass...

...so they tased him?









~Nay


----------



## pumpkinsmama (Aug 20, 2005)

It sounds to me like they didn't want him destroying any more property and forced the issue. Money over all. If he was not posing a risk to himself, not exhibiting any cutting, suicidal actions what would have been so wrong with just letting him wear himself out a little. No one can keep up frenzied activity for days. The boy could have let out his frustrations, gotten worn out and been more passive when they tried to take him out of the room. It sounds to me like the concern was not for the child at all.

What kind of cops are not willing to get scratched or nicked by a 11 yo to prevent sending jolting shocks of electricity through his body? To protect and serve seems to be turning into a "them" or "us" mentality. What kind of ability do they have to protect anyone if they can't even subdue an 11yo without a weapon? I am not trying to minimalize that one of them could have been hurt, but this was a child. I don't want to live in a neighborhood where the cops are more concerned with their own welfare than those of the people they are supposed to be serving. If you aren't willing to put your life on the line to protect the weak then stay the hell out of the police force. (this is all in reference to the OP, not the 6 yr old with the glass.)


----------



## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

I have stopped working with school aged kids with disabilities (mental) and now work with adults with MR and mental diagnosis. I have several individuals I work with who we have needed police assistance to transport to the hospital. The range of police assistance we receive is dramatic. I have worked with VERY understanding, *gentle* officers who listen and are really there on the scene to protect and serve. But more recently, and more often than not recently, a different kind of officer has shown up. He is concerned about his safety and not getting sued. He refuses to handcuff a MR individual who is, in front of the officer, threatening his staff, because there was a lawsuit. He is concerend about retiring from the system not being sued. He kept the scene going for over 3 hours refusing to act until his supervisor responded and the supervisor being upset about responding to something that these 2 officers should have been able to handle, overreacts. Perhaps the litigiousness of our society is the downfall here. At least with tazoring (AND I DO NOT THINK THAT A CHILD should EVER be tazored!) the lawsuite for harm will go to the Tazor manufacturer and not nescessarily to the officer who did it?

Grrr. Special Ed kids need to be protected by having adequately trained staff no matter what school they are in.

Jenne


----------



## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Do teachers get trained in college in the art of restraint? It seems so sad that so many kids are so out of control that this needs to be part of the curriculm.


----------



## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

No, it isn't part of the college curriculum but is part of the training that most special education teachers get via the school system. CPI and TCI are the 2 big names with public school systems. Fewer use Mandt restraint (that is mostly psychiatric hospitals and a few lower security prisons).

While it is sad that so many kids are out of control I do not think training teacher how to deescalate conflict verbally and physically is a negative thing at all. We had a woman use her training to stop a man with a knife who was at her daughter's school and a man who avoided serious physical harm during a mugging because of his training. Because I believe that one's emotional state effects those around one, I believe that the more people who know to be aware of their emotional states and how to handle stress, even in the extreme, the better.

BTW directly contacting the taser companies with letters and phone calls about there use on children may help to have law enforcement not use them. I.E. cause the company to make a statement like: While our product is safe we have no liability in the case of harm to a child with our product...

Just a thought...

Jenne


----------



## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

I think this pretty much sums up how I feel:

Quote:

"Unarmed ward staff at mental institutions routinely restrain much larger and far more dangerous adults by using mattresses or blankets to smother and contain the blows and threats of patients who have obtained weapons," the center's report said.


----------



## Mamma Mia (Aug 3, 2005)

This thread is making me feel knots in my stomach. I remember the police swabbing protesters eyes way back when. I got the same feeling but it's more urgent and pronounces from the POV of a mother. If my child was tased, I would have the officer's badge. If my child suffered serious injury or death, I'd have the officer's life. Feel free to flame me. I have cops in my family, I get it, but um, hurt my kid and suffer my wrath. I bet most of us feel that way.


----------

