# Hand slapping? At 10 months??



## mrsdocmartin (Nov 16, 2006)

Some casual aquantainces of ours have a son 1 month older than Quinn. We were talking about babyproofing yesterday, and the dad said "we call that a smack on the hand at our house. We move stuff if he could get hurt, but if we just don't want him in something, we smack his hand". Isn't that so sad?


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## Tinker (Mar 1, 2007)

Hand smacking makes me want to uke. My dh is a hand smacker and we have gotten into heated arguments about it.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Translation: "I am in total control of an infant, look what a big man I am!"

Ick.


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## sunnymw (Feb 28, 2007)

Too sad. It's one reason I'm very vigilant whenever we go to family functions, because even though everyone knows we're anti-spanking, hand slapping obviously "must" be ok...


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## chicasmama (Oct 15, 2007)

I'll never understand how hitting/popping of anykind is ok


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Makes you wonder how that guy would react if you smacked HIS hand for trying to touch something of yours, or snitching a cookie before dinner, or what have you.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
Makes you wonder how that guy would react if you smacked HIS hand for trying to touch something of yours, or snitching a cookie before dinner, or what have you.

I have always been tempted to treat my adult friends who have very different views in the way of parenting from me, the way they treat their own children just so that they can maybe better see it from their childs point of view. ...its very tempting but then I am sure someone will say 'two wrongs dont make a right'.... Some days I feel you can never win.

I always get the 'but its just a tap!' - ...as if how much force is behind the hand makes any real difference to the child.


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## Tinker (Mar 1, 2007)

Here I just posted earlier how I hate hand smacking and then this happens.

_But just a bit ago, Katie was playing with the electrical outlet and the lamp plug. What did I do? Freak out and smack her hand. *damn me!* On the one hand that's something that could kill her so I want to defiantly make a lasting impression about that. But I hate hand smacking.







_

What would you mamas do?


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## naupakamama (Mar 26, 2005)

Tinker - my reaction in that kind of situation is to let me natural reaction happen. That is pull DD away and jump/yelp/cry out. That is, show that I am scared in that situation. For instance if I knew there was gas in the area and an adult was about to light a match, my natural reaction would be to screech - no! stop! danger! don't do it! grab the match. etc.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrsdocmartin* 
Some casual aquantainces of ours have a son 1 month older than Quinn. We were talking about babyproofing yesterday, and the dad said "we call that a smack on the hand at our house. We move stuff if he could get hurt, but if we just don't want him in something, we smack his hand". Isn't that so sad?









this is super common. i wish it wasn't









it's like how when i asked my mom what to do about stella biting, she said when my brothers bit her, she bit them back, and they stopped doing it.

i was like, "WTF? you bit a BABY!" and she said "well, not hard. and they were older than stella--maybe 2?"

i just don't think i could ever BITE my child. i can actually _imagine_ hitting her (in the heat of the moment, not that i think it is RIGHT by any means, but i can imagine a pop happening--hope it never does, of course). but i can't even imagine biting since that's not a reaction that comes naturally to any sort of behavior!!! it's normal to sometimes want to hit someone if you're angry, but like in what situation do you feel tempted to BITE someone? ridiculous!!!

i agree that hand popping could just happen in a situation where the child is doing something dangerous. i have grabbed stella pretty forcefully and moved her saying "NO!" when she was into something scary. but i still don't think "popping" is the best way to deal with it. still, if it's potentially a life-threatening thing, you do what you do pretty much without thinking.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Tinker, I usually freak out about how scared I am about what she did and pile it on thick about how much I love her and would miss her if she was gone. She gets the importance.

My mother bit me too.







: And still for years afterward when I fought with my brother, I bit. Worked so well.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

My sister was a biter, and my mom did the biting thing with her.

FWIW, she's 17 and will probably STILL bite you if you piss her off enough!

I think the most worthwhile arguement against child hitting isn't that it hurts or that it's degrading (because most parents who hit seem to think "Yeah, that's the point!"







) but that it is not effective! So many people can't even see that because it's so engrained into their minds that spanking will fix their children's behaviour. Then when it just gets worse, they lay on more spankings, harder spankings, and tout the benefits! Hand slapping at 10 months can turn into belt whippings at 10 years without the parents even planning on it, because they can't see that it's not working and are too single-minded to try anything else.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Next time your coworker does something that annoys you, smack his hand


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## johannasonja (Aug 15, 2006)

i started smacking my dd1 (she was like 2,5 Y) and than it got worse and more often and after i realized it i stopped at once and we re doingvery well without smacking and hitting.
whenn dd2 started throwing temper tantrums with 9 months i told my neighbour, because she threw herself on the ground and i just thought it was kind of cute, my neighours reaction was -and did you spank her for that?










i changed my point of view 200%, and even if i would still spank, a ten month old, a baby hellooooooo?

johannasonja


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## thebee321 (Dec 13, 2003)

mrsdocmartin, I have a Quinn born on 6/11/07! How funny!

I know someone with a baby about 5 weeks younger than my Quinn, and they give her hand a little slap if she's touching something she shouldn't. It makes me a little sad, because they do not have impulse control at this age, I do not believe. I don't want to do that, but as I thought about it more, I made the decision to redirect him more, instead of moving stuff - I am running out of places to move stuff to!


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## lesley&grace (Jun 7, 2005)

It hurts me to think of handsmacking, or any hitting, especially with very young children because they really are not connecting the hit with what they have done. All they know is that the people who they love the most are hurting them. Makes me want to cry.


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## Snowflower (Dec 19, 2007)

I have, in my own experience, really appreciated being 'turned onto' these newer parenting practices. Maybe they are just in the dark, like so many are, and need a little direction, like so many of us do. Sometimes just mentioning 'Gentle disipline' or 'night time parenting' has sparked interest in people i know. They were completely out of the loop, never even heard of it.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

My sister did this with her son. In fact she brought it up today when I was on the phone with her (her son is now 6)
She was talking about how she didn't like doing it (she even mentioned how he was 10 months old when she started) but it made it so that she could take him to non child proofed houses and he "wouldn't get into anything"








What she doesn't realize is that he gave up on exploring.

He is much more reserved and insecure than any other kids that we play with. (the other kids we hang out with are from more GD and AP homes)
He is also the most "well behaved" child that I know.







:


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## jake&zaxmom (May 12, 2004)

My MIL was "concerned" when she learned that I WASN'T smacking my baby's hands. She wanted to make sure that he got "used to it" in preparation for spanking. She actually said something to the effect of "You've got to start them early!"







:


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## Best Feeling (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tinker* 
Hand smacking makes me want to uke. My dh is a hand smacker and we have gotten into heated arguments about it.

Mine too. I threatened to leave him b/c I felt so strongly about it. He stopped. His parents didn't hit/spank/smack so I have no idea where he learned about that horrid idea


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## GradysMom (Jan 7, 2007)

In the grand sceme, my intent is to not hit my child but I have hand smacked a couple of times just recently. I don't feel good about it at all about it, actually it makes me feel like a failure. One time it happened It was a gut reaction to the fact my son was titty twisting me. Ouch, you know. I feel like in a moment like that he has to learn that others have limits and obviously I have one too. I didn't plan on smacking his hand (more of a swat), but in order to defend myself that is what happened. He didn't cry - he got the point, I think.

It tempts me into thinking hand smacking can be effective... kwim

I still aim to avoid hitting, and learn skills to help me solve things otherways... but I also don't see any value in damming myself for this. I am human, and the sooner we both realize this the more valuable I am to my son...

Obviously hand smaking as a choosen method is seriously flawed and it doesn't teach anything or solve the root of the behaviors...


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GradysMom* 
In the grand sceme, my intent is to not hit my child but I have hand smacked a couple of times just recently. I don't feel good about it at all about it, actually it makes me feel like a failure. One time it happened It was a gut reaction to the fact my son was titty twisting me. Ouch, you know. I feel like in a moment like that he has to learn that others have limits and obviously I have one too. I didn't plan on smacking his hand (more of a swat), but in order to defend myself that is what happened. He didn't cry - he got the point, I think.

*It tempts me into thinking hand smacking can be effective... kwim*

I still aim to avoid hitting, and learn skills to help me solve things otherways... but I also don't see any value in damming myself for this. I am human, and the sooner we both realize this the more valuable I am to my son...

Obviously hand smaking as a choosen method is seriously flawed and it doesn't teach anything or solve the root of the behaviors...

Of course it's effective. Burning them with a cigarette or locking them in a closet is also effective. As is spanking.

Doesn't make it okay, though


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## birdie22 (Apr 1, 2005)

Here's a quote from the Sears' The Discipline Book (pretty mainstream stuff for this board







):

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T062100.asp


> SLAPPING HANDS
> How tempting it is to slap those daring little hands! Many parents do it without thinking, but consider the consequences. Maria Montessori, one of the earliest opponents of slapping children's hands, believed that children's hands are tools for exploring, an extension of the child's natural curiosity. Slapping them sends a powerful negative message. Sensitive parents we have interviewed all agree that the hands should be off-limits for physical punishment. Research supports this idea. Psychologists studied a group of sixteen fourteen-month-olds playing with their mothers. When one group of toddlers tried to grab a forbidden object, they received a slap on the hand; the other group of toddlers did not receive physical punishment. In follow-up studies of these children seven months later, the punished babies were found to be less skilled at exploring their environment. Better to separate the child from the object or supervise his exploration and leave little hands unhurt.


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## swimswamswum (Oct 26, 2005)




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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *naupakamama* 
Tinker - my reaction in that kind of situation is to let me natural reaction happen. That is pull DD away and jump/yelp/cry out. That is, show that I am scared in that situation. For instance if I knew there was gas in the area and an adult was about to light a match, my natural reaction would be to screech - no! stop! danger! don't do it! grab the match. etc.


I agree, I think this gets the same effect people think they'll get from hand-smacking.

I totally get that sometimes you do it before you think out of fear, but I think what the OP is talking about is people that intentionally use hand-smacking as a form of control.


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## libranbutterfly (Jan 12, 2007)

We have a friend w/ a baby about 2 months younger than Lexi, and a boy 4 months older than Kamille. When PT the older one, they spanked him for having accidents, and I oncce watched the dad smack the babies hand 20 times when the baby was trying to open an entertainment center, then finally he said "OK, I was trying to be nice, but I guess I'll have to find you something else to do." (How is hitting someone nicer than showing them something safe to do?) Took him in the playroom and gave him a toy, and guess what? He played, and didn't try to open the entertainment center any more (until the next time he came over) I guess that wouldn't of worked if he hadn't slapped his hand 20 times first though, right







:


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

I am completely against spanking/slapping hands. For months, I've been preaching to the people in Lily's life (now 10 1/2 months) that when she starts going for things that we don't slap her hand. Between 7 and 9 months, I'd yell "STOP!" and I'd grab her up real quick, enough to scare her. To my amazement...she actually listened (like, she wouldn't go near the dog water or whatever was a "stop"). Yeah, then she got a little bit older and I can yell "STOP" till I'm blue in the face but dog water/food is fair game, says Lily







:

My house is completely baby proofed and Lily has full access. She has complete safe freedom in my house. The only "stop" in my house is dog food/water which I quickly put down for him to eat and swoop them back up so it's a non issue. At my gramma's, it's not that way and that's where Lily is determined to get all the things she's not supposed to.

The other night at gramma's, it had been a long day. I was exhausted, Lily was still







: . She kept going after a plug in the wall. I'd remove her from the situation, say "Lily Stop! Hurt baby." I'd give her a toy...she'd go right back to the same area. I'd take her away, she _screamed_...and crawled towards it again. I blocked her from getting through and she screamed, arched her back...had a fit







She gets through barracade back to the darn plug. *patients dwindling* and shamefully I knocked her arm down (didn't smack or cause any pain, just knocked it down off of the plug). Removed her, distracted her....and she went. right. back. Popped her on her padded butt. I was trying anything to "scare!" her enough to leave it alone (didn't hurt her, it didn't phase her at all). Nothing worked--nothing has worked yet. I was tired and exhausted and....well, just so freaking tired. No excuses.

My kid is just a punk though. I think she acts up infront of gramma on purpose. I take her to my therapy appts and she's a super good baby. But, when she gets into something (therapists purse, desk, etc) I'll say, "Lily, Stop!" She takes her hand off, looks at me with this pathetic face, and *fake whines*, showing off her 2 bottom teeth while crinkling her nose (really, the most precious face ever







). She looks at me, then looks back to the therapist with the same pathetically cute face. Therapist burries her head in a pillow so Lily doesn't see her laugh. I show Lily her "baby" and she happily comes over to get her baby instead of the thing she's not supposed to be in. *Why* can't she do that at gramma's?







: She's a dream basically everywhere except gramma's.

Sorry, drifted away there







. Anyway, I feel horrible about knocking her hand down and popping her padded butt that neither of which did an ounce of good. It's so sad that babies her age are repeatedly being smacked like that. I have to work on better control when I'm frustrated with her (I would never pop/hit to cause pain/injury--I just did it to try to scare her).


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## mamahart (Sep 25, 2007)

I just wanted to comment that I believe it is important to forgive each other our errors- and ourselves for that matter. One of the moms who admits to handsmacking is clearly looking for alternatives and another poster basically tells her to leave MDC







Why would you do this???
Anytime a parent is trying to do the best they can at being gentle and kind and they fall down- either by yelling or handsmacking or even spanking- thats the time for positive reinforcement not just bashing them to pieces. I guarantee that EVERY mother here has or will make a major parenting error at some point. We really should try to support and redirect each other if we can.
I understand if someone gets on a roll pro-spanking or something crazy- but in general we are all looking for solutions that are gentle. And sometimes it is REALLLY REALLY HARD to not spank/pop/smack. Does that make it OK? Of course not. But if mom is looking to change her behavior we have the opportunity to help her and her child!!
Please lets be gentle with each other as well as with our children!!!!!


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

I just wanted to comment that I believe it is important to forgive each other our errors- and ourselves for that matter. One of the moms who admits to handsmacking is clearly looking for alternatives and another poster basically tells her to leave MDC Why would you do this???
Anytime a parent is trying to do the best they can at being gentle and kind and they fall down- either by yelling or handsmacking or even spanking- thats the time for positive reinforcement not just bashing them to pieces.
I'm afraid that was my fault. The post you are referring too above was directed at pro spanking posts which I have since removed. It was not directed at any of the posts which remain in this thread. I'm sorry for any confusion.

The Gentle Discipline forum should always be supportive of parents who are committed to learning new ways to parent. Over 90% of parents spank at least once--there wouldn't be many people here if we only supported those who never made a mistake! Only those who uphold spanking, defend it's use, and do not show an interest in Gentle Discipline, are asked not to participate.


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## holothuroidea (Mar 30, 2008)

This is what I don't understand...

There is all of this repulsion towards hand slapping, but forcefully grabbing a child and yelling, or trying to "scare" them is OK?

I, as an adult, would MUCH rather receive a little hand smack than be yelled at or grabbed. In fact, if someone grabbed me, my reflex would be to get that person away from me (i.e. shove, push, writhe, scream). This has happened with DH before, even!

It must be so traumatizing for poor babes to be grabbed unexpectedly. I know it hurts me!

Not that hand smacking is any better, but there's GOT to be an alternative. I remember in public, my Grandmother used to pinch us on the arm if we weren't supposed to touch something and she would say in a pleasant voice "That's not for little hands!" Seems pretty gentle to me. Also, she'd only do it in public (restaurants, grocery store), and only when we were old enough to know the difference.

I think at 10 mos. you need to just remove the object from the baby.

(I am not referring to times where you react to a danger that your child is in, any action that removes them from the danger safely is OK in my opinion.)


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:

I think at 10 mos. you need to just remove the object from the baby.
But how do you do that if the environment won't allow for that? At my gramma's there are 2 safety issues. 1.) plugs in the wall 2.) 2 tables with tall lamps where the lamp is setting on a piece of cloth. DD is taller than the table and could easily pull the cloth and/or the tall lamp on top of her (it's that cord that is in the wall, btw). If it was my house, the table/lamp scenario would be history. Gramma's is different. Gramma also has curio cabinets with thin glass that dd tries to bang on. And another lamp that's tall with a glass circle table/base thing that dd goes after. Gramma is my #1 caretaker while I work and we visit often. Yes, I take dd away from the situation, distract her, etc---but after the 20th time of retreiving her with a calm voice, my patience starts to go waaaay down hill. Any helpful suggestions?

I want to raise my dd as gently as possible...I guess I haven't researched it enough. I tried but all the rules to GD is very confusing. I read somewhere (maybe here) about using "STOP" to startle your child to, well...STOP them from doing something. It said to use that word to stop an action versus "no" that is too general. In the article/post it said that if you use the "stop"/startle way, you may save your child's life if s/he's running out into traffic--you say "stop" and the child does just that.

I'm open to suggestions and want to do what's best as gently as possible...that's what I thought I was doing. When do babe's start comprehending rules/boundaries?


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## holothuroidea (Mar 30, 2008)

I did not mean to criticize. I'm sure you have more GD knowledge and experience than me. I don't even have my baby yet!

I was just saying, that from my own experience, it seems that hand slapping is much less traumatizing than startling/grabbing the baby. I was hoping that maybe someone could tell me why this is not the case.

I truly just don't understand!

Sorry for the confusion.


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## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Of course it's effective. Burning them with a cigarette or locking them in a closet is also effective. As is spanking.

Doesn't make it okay, though









Wow. Smacking a hand isn't the same as burning them with a cigarette. I'm anti-smacking but that post is really insulting.


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MilkTrance* 
Wow. Smacking a hand isn't the same as burning them with a cigarette. I'm anti-smacking but that post is really insulting.

I don't think the poster was actually comparing the two. I think the point was that many parenting techniques can have a desired effect, but it doesn't make them right. CIO is pretty effective from what I've heard as well


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *macca* 
I don't think the poster was actually comparing the two. I think the point was that many parenting techniques can have a desired effect, but it doesn't make them right. CIO is pretty effective from what I've heard as well









Exactly. I am not saying they are the same, it just is kind of an eye opener for some people when they consider that most forms of physical abuse are "effective". I don't think that most people would even consider burning their child as punishment because it is obvious to most of us that it is wrong. You wont hear someone justify burning their child because "it works".

People use the "It works" argument to defend many other types of physical abuse.

Obviously hand slapping and burning are at completely different ends of the physical abuse spectrum, but they are both forms of physical abuse that are used by some parents in order to control or eliminate an undesired behavior.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *holothuroidea* 
I did not mean to criticize. I'm sure you have more GD knowledge and experience than me. I don't even have my baby yet!

I was just saying, that from my own experience, it seems that hand slapping is much less traumatizing than startling/grabbing the baby. I was hoping that maybe someone could tell me why this is not the case.

I truly just don't understand!

Sorry for the confusion.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting you grab a baby roughly. That certainly isn't GD.

It is not scary for a baby to be picked up gently and moved. If the baby is scared by this (sensitive, maybe sensory issues?) I don't see how a hand slap would be less scary...


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *holothuroidea* 
I, as an adult, would MUCH rather receive a little hand smack than be yelled at or grabbed. In fact, if someone grabbed me, my reflex would be to get that person away from me (i.e. shove, push, writhe, scream). This has happened with DH before, even!


Yes. But babies are used to being picked up and carried around. That is how they get places. They do not react to being picked up the same way that an adult would.
I am really lost on this argument that slapping a baby's hand is not going to upset them, but picking them up will upset/traumatize them. It just isn't like that at all.

Hand slapping is a mild form of physical abuse. Gently removing a child is not mean or abusive in any way.


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## holothuroidea (Mar 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Yes. But babies are used to being picked up and carried around. That is how they get places. They do not react to being picked up the same way that an adult would.
I am really lost on this argument that slapping a baby's hand is not going to upset them, but picking them up will upset/traumatize them. It just isn't like that at all.

Hand slapping is a mild form of physical abuse. Gently removing a child is not mean or abusive in any way.

OK, but the term used was not "gently" it was "forcefully." It was remarkable to me, because nobody made a comment about how "forcefully" moving a child is not a cool thing to do. I am not talking about picking them up, I am talking about forcefully grabbing.

If your alternative to slapping the hand is to grab the hand forcefully, is that really any better?

ETA: I'm not trying to be argumentative, I really want to know! I talked to DH about it last night, and asked him what he would do to stop the baby from touching things she shouldn't. He said "Grab her hand and say NO!" Apparently, hand grabbing is a popular alternative.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *holothuroidea* 
OK, but the term used was not "gently" it was "forcefully." It was remarkable to me, because nobody made a comment about how "forcefully" moving a child is not a cool thing to do. I am not talking about picking them up, I am talking about forcefully grabbing.

If your alternative to slapping the hand is to grab the hand forcefully, is that really any better?

ETA: I'm not trying to be argumentative, I really want to know! I talked to DH about it last night, and asked him what he would do to stop the baby from touching things she shouldn't. He said "Grab her hand and say NO!" Apparently, hand grabbing is a popular alternative.

No, I don;t think that forceful or rough grabbing of a child s ok. I don't really think it would be much better, if at all, than hand slapping.

Neither thing is GD...

I haven't read the post that you are referring to, but I will go back through the thread because now I am curious...


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