# Were you dissapointed with your midwife?



## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

I feel like the only one....

My midwife did a lot wrong, for example:

She did not tell me that her children are adopted, and that she has never had a child. She did not lie, but she definetely omitted this fact (she also says on the website that her two children were born at the birth center but doesn't add that she was the birth attendant and not the Mother). I overheard her discussing this with a collegue when it was far too late for me to consider switching. I would not consider this an absolute no-go, but it is something I want to consider in a midwife- does she actually know what I am going through? (This is just IMO)

Also, she pressured me to have my water broken (although she herself was the first to tell me in my prenatals that this was an un-necissary intervention) and when she (finally) allowed me into the birth tub I had been in transition for two hours in deep back labor that would have been remedied greatly by the water. Once I did get in the tub she tried to get me out of it three times, even having my husband and Mother try to lift me out, against my wishes.

The absolutely heartbreaking thing is that she would not take her hand out of my cervix when I asked her to. And I asked her several times. She was stretching out a cervical lip during my contractions, but we definetely could have done it in four or five contractions instead of one. I consider this a violation of my body, and a violation of the sensetove physical and emotional state of a laboring Mother. She only removed her hand when my mother told her that she had to.

She preferrs a birth stool birth, which she did not tell me until I was in labor.

Worst of all she complained continually that she was tired, that she had had too many births that week (I was after the previous poster, you baby was the 27th, mine was the 30th) and worst of all, she said she had a cold.

All in all, I think she might be a great midwife for some ( I think the responsibel thing for her to do would have been to have her partner come to my birth), but my experience with her was pretty bad. I find myself saying what I hear a lot of c-section mama's saying "at least the baby was healthy!", as if that is all we look for in a birth experience.

I would almost take the risk of going with them again if I had a long conversation with Ali, not because I like her so much (although she was very personable) but because I am pretty much in love with Valerie.

Also, I was pressured from six months on to make my baby "flip", I thought this was normal, but in talking with other midwives, and nurse midwives, this was an unnecissary pressuring). Although we drove three hours to come to prenatals, my appointments were frequently shortened to half an hour because they were very busy. (I could have gone to an OB for that).

I feel sad because I wanted my birth to be so much more.


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

Well, I can't speak for all midwives, just myself.

I don't think the fact that she didn't tell you about the children being adopted is a factor. She may want to keep that private and has a right to do so. I wouldn't hire a midwife based on the fact whether she has birthed children or not. One of the people I apprenticed with started at 18, is now 22, no children and is an excellent midwife, I had her at my birth 2 years ago.

I don't share all my personal information with my clients. Like the fact that my oldest daughter is not my husbands, she's from another relationship. And other facts.

But I think that people need to remember that midwives are human, make errors, can be right and wrong about certain issues, can be tired, irritable, etc. Sometimes I think midwives can be put up on a pedastal and made into a fiction type of character of what one envisions a midwife should be.

i know I have made some errors and I have forgotten to return calls, been irritable, said things I wish i hadn't said, learned from mistakes at births and prenatals.

But having said that, I also think that you have to be a good fit with your midwife and not everyone is going to mesh well. I know there are some people who call or meet with me who decide not to hire me and that's OK. Because I have my own personality and style, just like an OB and some people want something different than that.

I would suggest you write an honest, sincere letter to her, maybe she doesn't realize how some of her actions put you off. I have a client satisfaction type letter I give out looking for feedback. And I sometimes realize I have to realize that I may not agree with the mom and she may not agree with me.

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. I hope you can have a better one in the future if you decide to have another baby.


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## PiePie (Oct 2, 2006)

yes. and still trying to process it. i have talked to a lot of other mamas who were too.


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## turtlewomyn (Jun 5, 2005)

Yes, I am horribly dissapointed in my midwife, if not angry.
At 40+ weeks she told me over the phone that I needed to schedule a c-section because my baby was "too big" (based on U/S) and that there was "too much" fluid in there. Then she pretty much abandoned me.
However, my doula (who then also abandoned me) had some previous good experiences with her where she had waited while a woman stayed dilated at 10cm for 12 hours.
She was also late to all her appointments and had horrible bedside manner.
However, she was a CNM that worked within an OB/GYN office, so part of her problem may have been that she was under their rules, and she would work around them when she could (in the case of the other woman) but wasn't always able to.

The OP's comment about women who haven't given birth to children not making good midwives kind of stings, since I have thought about becoming a midwife. I guess I am not qualified at this point as I have never given birth (at least for now......)


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## bryonyvaughn (May 4, 2007)

Many in the NCB community have almost a religious regard for MWs and don't want to admit they are all individual human beings. That can be just as ignorant, arrogant, controlling, and fear-filled as OBs. A wise health care consumer evaluates the individual HCP in front of him/her.

I opted for a HB MW as way to avoid induction and the cascade of interventions it can bring as my family history is to carry babies long. My MW was in complete agreement with my beliefs, concerns, and reasoning. Unfortunately she decided to come out and check me during prodromal labor (I told her I could stop the contractions by sleeping, bathing, and bending over) and she ruptured my membranes without my permission during her base line dilation check. She then offered to take me to the hospital for my ever so faintly straw colored amniotic fluid. (Even then I thought "WTF?" and told her I felt perfectly safe at home as there was nothing in there for the baby to aspirate.) My MW decided to camp out as my membranes ruptured and then offered me a drink of RRL tea. I told her I had it iced in the fridge but she said she'd rather make it fresh and hot for me. As soon as I sipped it I was repulsed by the flavor. I asked her about it and she said I always made too weak to be any good. It was 1 1/2 years later my DH and best friend told be she has spiked my tea with a dropperful each of blue cohosh and black cohosh. That was what caused my paroxysmal vomiting which led to dehydration and low sugar levels. No surprise it was downhill from there.







By my birthing a baby when neither I nor my son were ready I was put at great risk. (I didn't learn about Bishops scores until years later but mine unadjusted was 2 and adjusted was 0. How's that for a complication risk factor?) That MW was annoyed the placenta didn't come fast enough, pulled the cord off the placenta (oh, of course, without our knowledge let alone consent) and attempted manual removal of the placenta (without our knowledge, let alone consent) until her secondary MW (and former proctor) stepped in and told my DH that should only be done in a hospital with an IV inserted. We then transported and at my MW's insistence left my newborn at home with my childless friend. The back up doc met us at the hospital and estimated I lost at least 40% of my blood volume. I had severe breastfeeding challenges due to my reaction to pitocin as well as my son's lack of suck reflex. I believe that may well have been due to vigorous suctioning. My MW, also a lactation consultant, was pissy about my BFing difficuties saying none of *her* moms ever failed to BF. (She didn't consider her WIC clients *her* moms.) After four days and a visit to an ND who performed reflexology, my son's suck reflex was restored and was finally able to nurse.

I can see how my rant about my outcomes and my MW's action my sound biased and one sided but I really don't want to list out all my issues with her behavior the week leading up to my labor (she apparently didn't want to be there), my labor, and post-partum time. I believe anyone can have a bad outcome but certain actions make bad outcomes far more likely. THAT is one issue I have with my MW's behavior... it added risk to me and my baby with no corresponding likelihood of benefit. As a CAM HCP I am a stickler for informed consent. I view myself as a specialized consultant whose job is NEVER to control people but to *offer them* insight and options they might not have otherwise. My biggest problem with Cathy's action is that by acting without informing me, let alone getting consent, she violated my personal autonomy in an unethical, unprofessional, and even illegal manner. *That* is why I have composed a grievance letter to her certifying organization which I will am holding off to mail next month when there is a little less going on in my life.

People don't seem comfortable using the ugly words rape and rapist. It sets polite company on edge and gets them defensive. My positive spin for the day is most rapists recognize what they are doing is all about them and never attempt to say it's in the best interest of their victims. The same can not be said for my former MW and HCPs like her. I wish I'd have known what she was really like before she attended my birth. I can't change that but I can do what I believe is my karmic duty and draw attention to the issue so others might not share my experience and possible experience an even worse outcome.

BV, who safely UCs with fully informed consent


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I'm so sorry you didn't have the experience you wanted/deserved.

I agree that the IMPLICATION that the midwife had birthed two children at the birthing center was misleading. It would have been appropriate for her to say nothing about her children at all.

I also agree that she did not seem to respect your body and wishes, and that she was overly focused on herself (not that I can't sympathize for her having a hard week and not feeling well, but the complaining is simply not professional).

I too was disappointed with my midwife. She respected my body just fine but she made a number of amazingly basic mistakes, that I believe led to the hospitalization of DD for severe jaundice.

Unfortunately DH is now reluctant to trust midwives and isn't sure he wants a home birth again should we have another child. This is very unfortunate, to me, because I still don't want to birth in a hospital or even a birthing center. I feel there are good midwives and bad midwives, and that we made a mistake choosing her, but that another midwife will be better than an OB (unless I need surgery of course







). I also have learned to act upon my concerns rather than trusting a care provider, which is a good thing to learn anyway. Strangely enough, my MIL, who was nervous about the home birth, was the one who argued my point of view when DH said he didn't trust midwives anymore (she was the one who said that our experience would not have represented all midwives).


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maggi315* 
I don't think the fact that she didn't tell you about the children being adopted is a factor. She may want to keep that private and has a right to do so.

But I think that people need to remember that midwives are human, make errors, can be right and wrong about certain issues, can be tired, irritable, etc. Sometimes I think midwives can be put up on a pedastal and made into a fiction type of character of what one envisions a midwife should be.

But having said that, I also think that you have to be a good fit with your midwife and not everyone is going to mesh well. I know there are some people who call or meet with me who decide not to hire me and that's OK. Because I have my own personality and style, just like an OB and some people want something different than that.

had a bad experience. I hope you can have a better one in the future if you decide to have another baby.


Thank you for responding. In my opinion (and I did state that clearly) I would like to know if a woman had had children or not. It doeas not rule her out if she has not, I just want to know what her relationship with birth is, and considering that she is a birth professional, who is going to ask MANY personal questions to me, I don't think it's too much to ask for her to be honest. Implying that she birthed her children, but not being honest is what bothers me, not the fact that she hasn't birthed them. I would never rule out a woman who hadn't had childeren as a midwife, and I'm sorry this hurt a later posters feelings.

As for being human, I understand that. However, when you tell people that the basis of your profession is being responsibel kind anddoing your best to help a woman have the birth experience she desires, you should live up to it.

It wasn't a late call, or one snarky remark, this isn't a case of me being overly critical and wanting to harp on the MW. She did a bad job, and that's it. She did a bad job, when what she does for a living is MORE than just a job.

I feel that you chalked my experience up to being a bummer, and it was a lot worse than the MW just being human, or she and I not having the "right fit". This implies that I am at fault, she is just human and maybe next time it will be better.

Yes, maybe next time it will be better, because I now know that just because someone is a MW, doesn't mean that she is good at her job, and it doesn't mean that she is better than an OB. I believe that I (since many of my friends who had babies have) could have had a more satisfying birth experience with an OB, which deeply dissapoints me.

Midwives can violate the "midwife standard of care" and mine did. More than a mistake, more than a bummer, and NOT my fault in any way.

-Crystal


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## Nan'sMom (May 23, 2005)

Oh boy...that sounds awful. No, it is not your fault. You are right. You have the right to know your midwife's experience, not to be lied to, not to be bullied into doing things that don't feel right to your body while in a vulnerable birthing state. If she has a preference for forcing mothers to use birthstools of not "letting" them into the water, or removing cervical lips manually or not removing her hand from a woman's vagina, she should tell prospective clients about this. Wow...this is far from "fit" IMO...it's abusive and non evidence-based. Also not what one would expect at a birth center (although from friends' experiences, birth centers seem to be rather interventionist and not as evidence-based).

I too had a bad experience with the mw I used for my first birth. I felt embarrassed sharing it since by most standards it was an uncomplicated vaginal homebirth. It was not what I wanted though, not what I had expressed I wanted, the mw didn't listen well and "forgot" some things we had discussed, and I felt violated.

It helped me to talk about it, to talk to my midwife and doula and to use a classical homeopath. It sounds like you are on the road to recovery with discussing it. Sending you hugs and healing vibes!


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## bryonyvaughn (May 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *turtlewomyn* 
...The OP's comment about women who haven't given birth to children not making good midwives kind of stings, since I have thought about becoming a midwife. I guess I am not qualified at this point as I have never given birth (at least for now......)

FWIW, turtlewomyn, the OP never said a MW who's never given birth is unqualified. The OP did say whether or not a MW's given birth is something to consider. I agree. Baring any other input I *assume* you, me and the OP would consider a childless MW far more favorably than a MW who's had four cesareans because her doctor/MW said placental function declines at 41 weeks.

The OP's MW did many things that were disrespectful women. I considered the "how the MW birthed" comments in light of that. My concern would not be that she was a mom via adoption *but* that in her promotional material _to potential birthing moms_ she advertises the fact that her children were born at the birth center. Like most potential clients the OP inferred the MW had used the BC's services _as a birthing mom_ *and* was endorsing it from that perspective. While the MW's statements were not unfactual, they were highly misleading especially considering she was never forthcoming about her role at her children's birth. I consider that unethical and a huge red flag. I consider a MW's nuliparity neither unethical nor a red flag.

Turtlewomyn, I want you to know you did birth your child. You may have never birthed vaginally but you are a birthmother. That in no way disqualifies you to study and pursue midwifery. I'd give far more weight to a MW's journey than her than to statistics from her own births.

~BV


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## Goatriffic (Jul 9, 2002)

I'm sorry that happened to you.







Pressuring you into things and not removing her hand from your vagina when asked to do so is disturbing and unaccpetable. If anyone else did that it would be sexual assault. Sometimes people just don't mesh well, as a PP said. But forcing a procedure on a woman without her consent is not about meshing. It's unacceptable when anyone does it, whether that person is an OB or a midwife. Your feelings are valid and I don't believe it's your fault. You trusted someone and they violated that trust. I think you have every reason to be angry and disappointed. Maybe writing a letter explaining your feelings or talking to the midwife you really like would help you process your experience?


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## Nan'sMom (May 23, 2005)

Another note...when I interviewed mws for my second birth, many seemed to have this odd idea that it would be "empowering" to work through the issues with the first mw and use her again...or that I could be "clearer" this time about what I wanted and use her again, as if it were all my fault. Or that "styles" were just different. IMO, respect of the birthing woman is key, and so many mws just don't have that...not a style issue but a respect issue. In what other aspect of life does this reasoning exist? I mean, if your painter chose a different color paint than you had requested or said her "style" was to always do stucco if not specified, you wouldn't pay her, right? Or use her to paint another room, hoping it would work out ok this time? And you wouldn't think it was "style" if your painter touched you inappropriately in a sexual way and refused to stop.

Anyway, sorry for the side-rant...the analogies just struck me.


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## jenangelcat (Apr 17, 2004)

deleted


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## gargirl (Dec 30, 2006)

I had midwives for 2 of my children's births. The first midwife was horrid. She was fine up until the last 2 appointments and the birth. My second to last appointment I mentioned that I had had demerol after my first son was born and it did nothing for the pain and I would prefer Tylenol 3 as I know it works for me and I am not allergic. She wrote in my chart that I was a possible drug addict. (!!!) Thanks! I now have to explain that notation every time I switch doctors.

The last appointment I had she told me I was in labor and we had to get to the hospital NOW. We got to the hospital and I was having some contractions but was not dialated at all. She broke my water without telling me. I had no idea what she was doing. She tried to prevent my support people from coming into the room and tried to shoo them out several times over the course of the next 17 hours of labor. She spent most of her time talking to the student she had invited in without asking if I minded and ignoring me. She complained constantly about how long it was taking and how tired she was and then tried to coerce me into taking pitocin to hurry thing up.... I was like 3 centimeters dialated! I insisted that I wanted an epidural BEFORE being given any pitocin, she harrumphed and puted and b^*$#ed about it but I was unflinching despite my fear, tension and worry. The anestesiologist was great, gave me just enough to take the grinding edge off the pain and BAM, I fully dialated and gave birth about an hour later with no pitocin. Oh, and she did cut me without even mentioning that she was going to let alone ASKING. She did a severe cut right through everything with scissors.

So yeah, I was disappointed to the point of rage. The midwife I had for my third son was totally wonderful and a shocking contrast to the other. I will never forgive the fist one, she ruined the entire experience start to finish for me.


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## Goatriffic (Jul 9, 2002)

Quote:

In what other aspect of life does this reasoning exist? I mean, if your painter chose a different color paint than you had requested or said her "style" was to always do stucco if not specified, you wouldn't pay her, right? Or use her to paint another room, hoping it would work out ok this time? And you wouldn't think it was "style" if your painter touched you inappropriately in a sexual way and refused to stop.
This is an excellent analogy.


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

we had a CNM first time.

i was VERY disoppointed.

that is why we are useing an OB this time.

she was not like your's (ie omitted birth of own kids) but she was not nurturing, did not make me feel safe -- made me feel attacked actually.

she baddgered us to come to the hosptial waaay tooo soon, she kept it up all night till DH gave in, I was at a 3 when we got there !!!!! I told everyone it wasn't time yet. she had told us to come in right wawy -- so much for the "don't go too soon" lecture she gave us -- not advice -- lecture about how first time moms are always in a rush. and she was very intervention happy -- pushing PIt and Epdural and so ... and basically gave up on me, in labor, and just kinda stood around waiting till she could leave. and she was independant -- so there were no doctors or doctors rules psuhing her to speed up my labor or my progress or anything. She also spent the last 2 month FREAKING out about how small my son was, he was born at 5 pound 9 oz, and accuseing me of starving myself to stay thin







:







:

I have found, however, i am not the only one to have a less than expecepted expereince with her ... some DO love her, but most of the recent moms i have talked to felt more like me, the only recent good reports are from moms who had birthed with her before and this was a 2nd + baby .... none of the first time moms that i have spoken too got the expereince they were hoping for with her.

in reference to teh OP -- i do not think it was the fact she wanted to keep her children private, or that she had not had kids herself that was the issue -- woud not be for me -- it is how she did it -- stating "my children were born at teh birth center" sounds like she birthed them there. if she is going to state THAT, then IMO she needs to somehow convery that she was not the birth mom, cuz the above statement implies she was. if she wasnted to keep them private, sinpley state "I have two wonderful children" and not bring their birth into it. I agree the WAY she says it implied they are birth kids that SHE birthed at thebirth center...again if doesn't matter to me if a MW has birthed or not, or how a child joins a family ... what does matter is how whatever infmration is shared is converyed.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

I found out at my labor that my midwife had had 3 cesareans with her children. I don't think I doubted her at all. I just a felt a bit like she had omitted some information. I never asked her outright, at that point, but she certainly didn't offer.

It felt a bit betraying and I am not sure why. In the end, it didn't matter a whole lot, but I was subjected to some things I was uncomfortable with.

Her not removing her hand from your vagina is unconscionable, and I am so very sorry to hear that.









People do have an almost deity-like worship of OBs and midwives (to a lesser degree) and it's troublesome. Midwives are just people, you know? With biases and heartaches and colds and problems in labor and all the rest. It doesn't make it any easier to process your birth though.


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## bryonyvaughn (May 4, 2007)

Bolding mine.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Goatriffic* 
I'm sorry that happened to you.







Pressuring you into things and not removing her hand from your vagina when asked to do so is *disturbing and unaccpetable*. If anyone else did that it would be *sexual assault*. Sometimes people just don't mesh well, as a PP said. But forcing a procedure on a woman without her consent is not about meshing. It's unacceptable when anyone does it, whether that person is an OB or a midwife. Your feelings are valid and I don't believe it's your fault. You trusted someone and *they violated that trust*. I think you have every reason to be angry and disappointed. Maybe writing a letter explaining your feelings or talking to the midwife you really like would help you process your experience?

I agree with Goatriffic's observation but disagree with the recommendation. I think the letter should go to the MW's credentialing board. The MW clearly was intentionally deceiving all her clients who visited her website as well as all those she spoke to about her babies being born at the BC. There's no reason whatsoever to assume this MW only behaved in unethical, unprofessional, deceitful, and illegal ways solely with this particular client. If we as consumers of midwifery services do nothing to stop such abusive actions toward women we are enabling the abusers and perpetuating the system that victimized us. I consider it our moral obligation to the community to speak out the alarm. If we do nothing in response I believe rather grimly we retroactively deserved the mistreatment we got.

~BV


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

i think that this is one thing that "scares" me most.

my husband and I want to UC. but because we see a lot of first time UCers going to hospital because of nerves or needing support (not for medical reasons), we thought it would be better to have a midwife as 'back up.'

i'm looking at midwives in the area, and just reading the birth stories--though these women who hired these midwives are very happy with their births--i see what i consider to be a lot of intervention. that makes me nervous.

both of the midwifery groups that i'm looking at have CPMs, not CNMs, though one is a CNM. they say that you'll have one or two midwives present at your birth, and in one case it says two midwives and a doula. i really don't want that--and i'm sure i can talk it out with them--but it still makes me nervous.

and it makes me nervous because of the things in this thread. some of you have stated that materials were 'misleading.' others have said that the midwife said anything to agree with you early on, but once the time came around, they did whatever they wanted.

and so my fear is--and i can only work through it if i voice it--is that if i do need to have a midwife for support/back up, if she comes and then becomes very hands on or takes over, that my husband and i will get trampled.

what we want from back up is 1. to support us if we need support (just to be present and help with that); 2. to determine or give us clues as to how we're doing as we going if we're out of touch with that; and 3. to determine if we really need to transfer for emergency care.

i know that 2 and 3 might require some 'hands on' behaviors, but otherwise, i don't feel that i need three people there to do this work. i'm really afraid of being rail roaded.


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

Quote:

because I now know that just because someone is a MW, doesn't mean that she is good at her job, and it doesn't mean that she is better than an OB.
this was a hard lesson to learn -- but now i preach it all the time.... it doesn't matter the title -- mw, cnm, ob -- it matters the person.

we have an awsome OB (two actually my old OB doesn't do OB any more, only GYN as he is getting old and tired







) ..... My sister has an awsome CNM ... she and i together have met some bad CNM (the one i birthed with and others) and many horrid OBs.................


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

Quote:

The MW clearly was intentionally deceiving all her clients who visited her website as well as all those she spoke to about her babies being born at the BC.
I agree -- there is no reason to mention the birth at teh birth center save to imply she birthed them there. if she wants to note their peaceful birth at teh BC then she should state "born into my heart peacefully at teh BC" or something ..... if she wants privacy for the adoption -- fully her right -- than she would leave the birth issue out all together.


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## mothragirl (Sep 10, 2005)

there were a lot of surprises during my last labor and birth. i'm still mad about some of it.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

You're not alone. My 1st birth was a hospital waterbirth with a midwife. I chose the most NCB-friendly group of midwives in my state. I wanted a homebirth, but planned on staying home instead of returning to work and insurance didn't pay for it (MY MISTAKE). The hospital claims to be like a homebirth, just at a hospital. There is no such thing, I know now. Many things happened during my birth that I would not have chosen.

My 2nd birth was a UC. Too bad I didn't do it that way the first time. Much better.

I'm sorry your birth wasn't all you'd hoped for. There is NO EXCUSE for refusing to take her hand out of you, or coercing you into interventions you didn't want. Inexcusable.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

Please, please, PLEASE write this midwife a letter about your feelings.

As a provider, I worry that there are people out there that are not telling me how they felt about my involvement with their birth. Hearing feedback only makes me a better midwife - something that will keep the same thing from happening to another woman.


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

Quote:

Please, please, PLEASE write this midwife a letter about your feelings.

As a provider, I worry that there are people out there that are not telling me how they felt about my involvement with their birth. Hearing feedback only makes me a better midwife - something that will keep the same thing from happening to another woman.
but do you really think the MW in to PP would care -- she obviously didn't list at the birth when the mom was telling her to stop touching her, or in the pre-natals ..... so isn't it more likly she'll just blow off the letter too?


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

i think that feedback is important, but it has to be done in an appropriate way. it might be helpful to draft multiple letters, and try to get it all on a single page. if she's really open to the information, she'll contact you one way or another.


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bryonyvaughn* 
Bolding mine.

I agree with Goatriffic's observation but disagree with the recommendation. I think the letter should go to the MW's credentialing board. The MW clearly was intentionally deceiving all her clients who visited her website as well as all those she spoke to about her babies being born at the BC. There's no reason whatsoever to assume this MW only behaved in unethical, unprofessional, deceitful, and illegal ways solely with this particular client. If we as consumers of midwifery services do nothing to stop such abusive actions toward women we are enabling the abusers and perpetuating the system that victimized us. I consider it our moral obligation to the community to speak out the alarm. If we do nothing in response I believe rather grimly we retroactively deserved the mistreatment we got.

~BV


This is interesting. I have spoken to a woman who said that 3 of her friends has bad experiences with this particular midwife. I will consider it, but if I do send a letter to her board, I will also send a letter to her telling her that I am doing so. I would also like to speak to the other mothers with bad experiences with her.

As one poster said about "sometimes we have colds" but the MW had a partner who had expressed a wish to come to our birth, and I had expressed that I preffered her. A laboring mother and a newborn baby are not places where you can justify having a cold. She is going to touch you internally (with gloves, but still) and she is going to touch and breathe on your new born baby WITHOUT gloves.

If my baby had gotten a cold from her I would have been livid. Absolutely raving with anger. She has a responsibility to my health and her partner was more than willing to come to my birth. Her ego was attatched to coming to my birth because it was on an Island that she used to live on, she wanted to say that she had done it, so she chose to come despite the fact that she has a partner for situations when she is too tired/sick or faced with an emergeny and cannot attend a birth with the health, attention and standard of care that she promised.

-Crystal

On the washington tribe there was a thred about finding a MW in Seattle, and that's how all this came up. There were several posters who had very good things to say about her, and thier babies were born 5-7 years ago. One woman had a birth that the MW had attended three days before mine and said that she mostly just stayed out of the way and that there "wasn't much for her to do". I resited the urge to ask this woman if she gave birth on a birthing stool, an had her waters broken, or is she was given any homeopathics to speed things up.

What you said about writing a letter to a higher authority is sticking in my head, mostly about how she violated the "midwifery model of care" that she was always touting around like a badge. How many women need to have bad experiences with MW's before they decide that an OB is just the same?

Midwifery in it's core is an amazing thing. It is recognizing the blessing of birth, the sacredness of the Mother and the miracle of a new life. In my opinion, if you start to adress it as a "job", much like painting a house, you are not being a good midwife, what women are looking for in a midwife. Someone responsible and caring, someone who has trust in you and who can direct things with a gentle hand if necissary.

Maybe it's a tall order, but I believe it can be done.
-Crystal

P.S, I understand that being a Midwife is work. It is your job, and you get tired. However, I believe it is a job (if you are doing it for a living) and I understand not being perfect, I also understand that personality is a factor as well.

Being a Mother is also work, it's a lot of toil, a lot of repitition, and you have to do it no matter what. However, like being a midwife, you know that when you go into it, and if you didn't, you find out soon enough.
However, if you hit your kids, or abuse them in some way, it's not a "bad fit", it's bad parenting. You did wrong, and you shoul make every effort not to do it again. And unlike being a Parent, you CAN stop being a Midwife if you find that you can no longer provide to people what they deserve.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

I've attended births with colds. I wash my hands often. The baby is NOT likely to get a cold (thank goodness for those rich antibodies present in colostrum and breastmilk!).

I'm curious about the whole reporting her based on the fact that she didn't birth her children. Between my partner and I, we have three children - only one came from my body. But I refer to all three as "my daughters". I wouldn't think that someone discovering this could be grounds for reporting me to a licensing board.

Yet I do feel like the holding back of anterior lips is quite unnecessary in nearly all births (though in one brow presentation it seemed to work well to keep the cervix from receding a third time). What makes it even more difficult is that YOU told her to stop and this was not granted. To me, that's the true travesty about this scenario.

Colds, the birth mother of children, being tired....these are things we all face as midwives. However, how we present this to our clients (like somehow you're a burden because she's had two births prior without much rest) is important.

I don't know that reporting her is the first course of action, but writing a letter and if you don't get a response, I'd consider sending a letter / complaint to the board, but only about the sexual assault issue (her not removing her hand when you told her to) and the forcibly removing you from the tub - against your will without reason.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momma Aimee* 
but do you really think the MW in to PP would care -- she obviously didn't list at the birth when the mom was telling her to stop touching her, or in the pre-natals ..... so isn't it more likly she'll just blow off the letter too?

Even if she doesn't respond, the OP can ask for a meeting face to face. If the mw doesn't react to this, then I'd say it's about HER and she recognizes that she is at fault. Most people, when defensive, won't come face to face with those they've hurt.

To me, the fact that she may or may not respond doesn't matter. This woman deserves to have her feelings conveyed to the midwife. And no matter how callous this mw is, a seed will be planted and she WILL think about it.


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

I completely agree. I would not report her because she hasn't birhted children, in fact, that was never a problem with me. However, she did IMPLY that she had birthed her children, which leads me to conclude that she believes women would prefer a MW who has given birth herself. It's a non-issue for me. Lying isn't cool though.

The only thing I would feel warrated a letter to her superiors would be her refusal to respect my personal space, and also her consistant pressuring me to get out of the birth tub, even ignoring me and telling my Mother and DH that they "had" to "pull" me out of the tub now.

In all honesty, I don't think I will write a certifying board, but I will send a copy of the letter I send to her to her partner.

And IMO, it's not cool to attend a birth being sick. In fact, the Mw herself (during prenatals) mentioned to me that SHE considered it irresponsible to attand a birth while being sick. My birth was not a more routine one in their area. They both considered it a birth of extenuating circumstances where whoever was more "up to it" would attend. Like I said, the MW who came had her Ego attatched, and we all knew that the other woman was willing to attend, and would have happily done so.

By the way, I woud never ask for a meeting face to face. I would feel traumatized and like I had to defend myself. Also, I would have to wait until I am back in Wa, then I would have to drive a few hours to get from where we live to Seattle. A red flag I should have recognized was when she told me that she didn't want to come to my house for a home visit because it was "too far away". And yet my Dh and I drove down to see her MANY times, including when I was nauseaus, uncomfortable and super pregnant. I don't think she would have felt as bad as I did having to drive all that way.

-Crystal


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

, Crystal. I'm so sorry you went through this.


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

Thanks to everyone for the support. It took me eight months to say out loud what happened and how I felt about it. I am going to write her and her partner a letter, although I will request that they contact me through e-mail and not the telephone. (Actually, they don't have my new phone number, I'll just give them my e-mail).

The worst thing is, I love the partner. I mean, I genuinely love her as a person and she is everything I would want in a midwife. Now I'll never be able to work with her.







:

I'm really excited about being pregnant again, though (we're not sure if I am or not, but if not this year, then next year we will try). I feel really well equipped to find a MW who understands what I believe a MW to be.

-Crystal


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## thebarkingbird (Dec 2, 2005)

i had a horrible experience with my midwives and found it incredibly healing to visit with them face to face when i went to pick up my reccords and calmly tell them exactly why i was upset. i told them that i fealt betrayed and pointed out inconsistinceis between theri reccords and what they said to me. i closed by saying i was sorry that it didn't work out i "got" their perspective and it was sad that i would no longer be able to give them good word of mouth with other birthing mothers in the area. i have not spoken to them since and after confronting them i have not cried again over anything related to their care.

things started off well. i was open with them about the complications that arose during my son's birth due to psych meds i'd been perscribed. i told them i had been unmedicated for 2 years and had been healthy and stable. they asked that i seek therapy. not wanting to go to the hospital, i complied. things got rough at home for a bit and i did something i hadn't done it years, scratched up my arms. i told them about it at a prenatal visit and discussed it and my experience of PPD with them at length, telling them that i hoped a different kind of birth experience might help me avoid the PPD (DS#1 was in the NICU and our nursing relationship was very dammaged) i discussed my plans for care in case of PPD and spoke to them about my therapist and psychologists suggestion that i take some days to rest, not be medicated and that the scratches were not a huge deal. that they were not an attempt to truly harm anything and that i just needed a few extra sessions to help me deal with a specific stressor. the midwives said that women like me needed their compassion and care more than any other. they said "we're not going to abandon you."

a week later i got a phone call saying they were terminating my services because i had a "major psychiatric illness" which required medication (she said she disagreed w/ my psych). she told DH that it was a "pregnancy complication" and that it would be like delivering a breech baby. i needed to see a high risk doctor. and that i was free to go to the charity hospital to have my baby as there were no other MW's around and DH and i don't have insurance. we paid them hundreds of dollars they planned to keep. i was 26 weeks pregnant. when i picked up my records i found out they'd decided the day i went in w/ scratches to transfer my care to the backup doctor and hadn't called me untilt he day before my next scheduled appointment. i cried for hours in fear of the hospital. finally we got medicaid and i won't have to deal w/ charity again.

my advice would be to request a meeting. i would write a letter to the board about her refusing to remove her hands from you and such. i wouldn't make too big a deal about her misleading you about her children's biological origins. it would come off as sounding mean and petty and there are enough clear cut mistakes and uncool things in your story to drive a point home.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

I have to say this: if you get a face to face meeting, it is SO good to have a mediator there. the mediator can keep things from venturing off, getting personal, and also help each other validate experiences.


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## Shell_Ell (Jun 13, 2005)

I was very disapointed with my main midwife with my first DS. I would even go so far to say I feel betrayed and at the time felt very bullied. I don't think I'll ever "get over" that experience. I was young, niave, and so willing to trust. She really took advantage of that.

All midwives are not created equal. All out of hospital births are not "better" than hospital births. I learned that the hard way.

Thankfully with our second DS, I found a midwife I absolutely adored. The experience was amazing.


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

I don't think I'll be going for a face to face meeting with her. Fir some people, when you go through a traumatic experience, the person who caused it can be a trigger for making you feel like you are in that situation again. I'm afarid that I would shut down during the meeting, probably apologize for whatever she blamed on me, and end up crying and angry in the car.

It's not necissarily what WOULD happe, but it's a a fear. Also, when I go back to Wa, I only have a month to spend with relatives who are just nuts for my baby, I would rather spend time with them before I have to go back to New Mexico. It's a logistical thing more than anything else, it's a lot of money and time for me to go to the city.

I hope my letters are recieved well. I don't want the MW to feel like it's personal, because really it's not a personality thing. I feel like a lot more would be accomplished through sending another letter to her partner than to a certification board. However small it is to point out that I felt mislead by her implications about having birthed children, I will point out to her that the website is misleading, however unintentional it may have been.

Mostly she was sick, unhappy, pushy, interventionist and disrespectful. Plus, something I can't really say is a fact, the energy was all wrong. I was 7 Cm when she showed up and I was just then unable to walk around, play board games and be "present", it was 12 hours after then that I had the baby. I think a lot of it had to do with the MW.

-Crystal


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## AugustLia23 (Mar 18, 2004)

Yes I was disappointed in in midwife for my frist birth, I am so happy that I decided to stop midwifery care with my 2nd pregnancy/birth. Choosing to UC was the best decision I have ever made. It's very conflicting coming from a practitioner, because there are limitations, but as a pregnant/laboring woman, I want to be in control of my outcome.


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AugustLia23* 
It's very conflicting coming from a practitioner, because there are limitations, but as a pregnant/laboring woman, I want to be in control of my outcome.


What do you mean by this? What do you consider the limitations of having a practitioner? I am wonderign because I am seriously considering the idea of not having an attendant next time.

I feel that if I interview all (or as many as necissary) the midwives in my area and none of them are excellent, then I will give my DH my big stack of Midwifery books and tell him to read up. Not that he would be the attendant, we would be doing it together, but I would want us both to know the same information.

Do you think one of the limitations of having an attendant is the feeling that they are somehow and "authority'? I know the lessons we learned as childern in terms of Doctors, Teachers, Parents Ect, really deeply affect us, and maybe when you're in that fragile state of mind and someone has the energy of an "authority" (even a really cool, gentle one) it could have detrimental effects?

I read once that (who's the Frenchman, with the waterbirth?) Say that he found Women Labored best alone, in the dark (not pitch black, but dim), with some water. This sounds REALLY good to me.

-Crystal


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

I was very disappointed in my midwife, and ended up transferring back to my ob (the ob who attended my dd's birth) at 24 wks. I didn't have much choice, really, because my midwife said she was "uncomfortable" attending my birth in her facility (or in my home) because of the results of a 20 wk ultrasound (and, yes, she recommends a 20 wk ultrasound) unless I had a level 2 ultrasound with a perinatologist.

Without going into all the details of the ultrasound, the main problem was this: the midwife likes this medical testing, but then does not fully understand the results. She interpreted them in the most damning possible way, and then decided I needed a level 2 ultrasound. Also, and worse, she admitted she had never seen one of the results "worded that way" (although she insisted she knew what it was/meant), and recommended that I plug the results into Google for more information







:. That was such horrid advice.....3 days and no eating or sleep later, and I am bawling in front of the computer reading stories of stillborn babies







: When I finally called the radiologist directly, at 7:30 am after being up most of the night on the internet, the radiologist immediately put my mind at ease.....said it was most likely an artifact, watched the ultrasound in real time with me on the phone, and said he saw no reason to be very worried based on the ultrasound. And recommended I find a new provider







:

I did transfer back to my ob. He looked at the same report and said, "Eh, we'll recheck the ultrasound in another month". We did, and everything was fine. The one result (a common, often false-negative soft marker for Down Syndrome) had resolved, as it commonly does. The other result had, indeed, been an artifact, as there was nothing there at all. And now my beautiful, healthy baby boy (hospital born) is pulling clothing off my drying rack as I type









I think I should write a letter to my midwife, especially about the internet advice. That was really horrid advice. If she had never seen it "worded that way before", she should have called the radiologist for clarification before trying to explain the results to me.


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

or are the limits you are talking about -- legal and "personal" -- it they are another humna there who can only guess what you are feeling and expereince, but not really know. they have to worry about liabality at some point, they have their own bias and expectations..... and so on .....


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

Here is my letter to my Midwife, it's just a first draft. DO you think anything should be changed?

Dear Ali,

I apologize for not responding to your "response form" that the Birth center sent to me after Maeve was born, I did not feel that I was able to sort out my feelings about my birth yet, and I wanted to feel very settled and clear headed before I wrote to you.

When talking about my birth experience, I feel bland inside I find myself saying what I hear a lot of c-section Mamas saying, "All that matters is that the baby was healthy". . I know that there were a lot of factors involved, including my Mother, who I feel was pushy, and not inclusive of you, and the fact that I found myself in a much more fragile state of mind than I thought I would be in. I had received so much pressure from varying people in the days coming up to my birth that I feel that I caved.

I harbor certain resentments towards myself because I feel that I should have done better, I feel that I should have been able to express my wishes more clearly, and been more in control of the situation.
That said I am also deeply disappointed in certain aspects of the care that I received from you. When you arrived you expressed that you were exhausted and that you were coming down with a cold. You referred to me as a "job" 3-4 times that night, and again 3-4 times in the morning, and although I understand that Midwifery is something that you do for a living, I deeply feel that it is more than a job, it is a privilege.
Also, I don't know if there was any medical indication for this (as Sunita always assured me that Maeve's heartbeat was just fine) but I feel that I was pressured to hurry up.

I was under the impression that, although my labor was taking it's time, I was not in a situation where is could be deemed medically necessary to break my water. Michael and my Mother refused for me the first time, but your offering made me feel that something was potentially wrong, and that it needed to be done. I also felt that you were expressing a desire to "do" something. Again, I don't know if there are factors that I was unaware of, but I don't feel that it was medically necessary to give me Homeopathics to make my labor faster. When I took them the first time they made my contractions extremely painful, and I felt that you were offended when I refused to take them again.
I am also deeply disappointed that you did not offer me the option of the tub when I was clearly having extremely painful back labor. Again, if there was a medical reason for doing this, I am not aware of it. When I did hit the tub I felt so much better that labor felt like a different experience.
I feel that you prefer to use a birth stool, as you pressured me to get back on it after it was clearly causing me terrible pain. I feel that you were offended when I refused to come out of the tub, even going so far as to ask Michael and my Mother to lift me out. I am sure there was no medical indication that a water birth was unfavorable at this point, as it obviously went quite well.

The absolutely heartbreaking thing is that you would not take your hand out of my cervix when I asked you to, and I asked you several times. I even asked you nicely, saying please. I understand that you were stretching out a cervical lip during my contractions, but when I told you that it hurt (several times) and you insisted on continuing, you violated the sensitive physical and emotional state of a laboring Mother. You only removed our hand when my mother told you that you had to, and you gave her a dirty look at that.
In the morning, after Maeve was born, most of your conversation centered around needing Coffee (not our Coffee, but Espresso, because you clearly wanted to leave), and before leaving you remarked that you should have come in the morning, because then you could have slept at home. This comment left me feeling that I had inconvenienced you and that you were disappointed in me, and you wished you hadn't come at all. When I was trying to be with the baby and you insisted that I listen to you talk about the papers you wanted to leave with me, I felt confused. I told you that I knew I wasn't going to retain anything, and you should tell someone else, or leave the papers on the counter. As I stated, I did not retain any of the information, but Michael had to refer to the paperwork later.
I would like you to know that I do not consider the care I received from you in keeping with the Midwifery mode of care that was offered to me. I felt often during my prenatals that you were stressed and overworked. I feel that your "off" day became my "off" birth experience. I feel that you did not express what you expected, or desired from me, and that I let you down. I feel that we all wanted my birth to be so much more.

I hope this letter finds you in a good place in your life. I think maybe my pregnancy coincided with some stress for you, and we were all affected by it. I know that you did not harm me intentionally, but you did in fact harm me, and all these months later, I am still processing it.
Take Care,
Crystal Crawford


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

Crystal, I certainly did not mean to imply that her inappropriate actions were your fault. What I did mean to convey is that midwives are humans and in reality there are good and bad, just like any profession. that's why I find it amusing when people call me and say, oh, well, I don't want a lay midwife, I want a CNM? OK, but that's doesn't mean better care.

I think there were probably warning signs before your actual labor and i would hope that others reading this need to understand that if you are having warniing signs, or uncomfortable feelings, do not think it will get better during the labor and birth. It will not. If your doc has a 99% episotomy rate (which one around here does and brags about it), don't think you will be that 1% or somehow change his views.

Regardless of what happened, you now need to process it, learn from it, heal and move on. You can't change what happened, nor can you change the midwife. But you need to take care of yourself mentally and emotionally. that you do have control over.

There are groups that do birth counseling, I can't remember anybody's name off the top of my head, but I think that would be quite helpful.

I always think it's good to ask the midwife for references to give a call and to try to find out from others about her and her experiences.

But some things I don't find as concerning, I guess. Things like whether she gave birth or not, things like complaining of being tired (maybe inappropriate, but she probably wasn't even thinking about that), having a cold (what would be the alternative, if she didn't come? that's a hard spot to be in? I can't stop attending every time I get a bit sick, I have to use my judgement, wash my hands, sometimes i might wear a mask if I'm really coughing or something, but far worse, to leave people in the air-I do have backup,but still, not always a certainty), using the birth stool (you can refuse, right? hard probably with your first, thinking you have to do everything she says, but you will probably need to learn to say no to any health care provider).

Not meaning to sound harsh, although maybe it is, just giving my opinion. for what it may be worth...

I think maybe the healthiest thing for you is to get birth counseling and let it go with the midwife. Otherwise, you will keep rehashing and feel more frustrated if you don't get a good response from her. You aren't responsible for her response, just your own...


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## NightWalker (Nov 23, 2005)

"I read once that (who's the Frenchman, with the waterbirth?) Say that he found Women Labored best alone, in the dark (not pitch black, but dim), with some water. This sounds REALLY good to me.

-Crystal"

I cannot agree with this enough!!! That was how I labored 3 weeks ago--completely alone, in my dimly lit bathroom in the water-- and I will never labor another way again.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

Crystal - that letter is good. I hope you find some healing in sending it. I'm sorry that your experience was negative and harmful to your psyche and body.

What is hard about these issues is that women sometimes expect to be treated poorly by doctors - they're super busy, egotistical, etc. But when you have a homebirth midwife, the goal of the relationship is trust and mutual respect. So you let your guard down. It makes it doubly hard when something like this happens.

Peace to you, mama. It pains me to hear stories like this. It hurts even more to know that there are likely former clients of mine that have complaints about my care that aren't speaking up.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Michel Odent perhaps?








to Crystal and all of us who have known this personal grief


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

yeah, Michel Odent favors privacy (not your midwife sitting next to your privacy) but total privacy, quiet and low light.


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## bryonyvaughn (May 4, 2007)

Crystal









This is very hard for you and I think you're right in saying you're not up for a face to face with your MW. I don't mean that as an insult by any means. You sound vulnerable, becoming aware of what happened and a bit unsteady as you try to wrap your brain around it all. As so much of your letter seems apologetic (and be assured *you* have no reason to apologize for anything) I think you need much more time before ever confronting the MW in person.

FWIW I'd definitely work on the letter a lot, maybe even putting it away for a month at a time between revisions, if you ever intended to send it to a grievance board.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sea_joy* 
Here is my letter to my Midwife, it's just a first draft. DO you think anything should be changed?
<snip>
I harbor certain resentments towards myself because I feel that I should have done better, I feel that I should have been able to express my wishes more clearly, and been more in control of the situation.

I'm not thinking of a specific phrasing but consider a segue about what you needed from a MW at that point was not to take control but to encourage you to express your needs and preferences... then go into the disappointment in her actions.

As to the rest instead of addressing your concerns chronologically, which might allow the MW to dismiss them as nitpicking, consider picking three main issues with the MW's action at your birth, state them, and then give examples to support. I think it might more effectively drive your points to the MW's shortcomings rather than isolated actions.

For example...
* Sacred event in your life treated as an inconvenience.
....Ex: Consistently referring to you as a "job"
....making excuse to leave in morning and saying should have slept at home and missed most of the labor instead

* Interventions for speed or HCP convenience rather than medical indication
....homeopathics
....holding back cervical lip
....insisting on painful birth on stool rather than comfortable waterbirth

* Not respecting your boundaries
....refusing to remove hand from cervix until mother demanded it
....when you wanted to continue laboring in the tub, getting others to physically remove you with *no* medical indication
....refusing to talk to anyone but you about papers, at that moment, when you expressed your limited ability at that moment and preference

You could then talk about the great gap between the midwifery model of care and her actions. I'm not sure how to work it in but somehow state if those interventions were for medical necessity rather than for expediency and the MW's personal comfort, she failed as a MW to explain such to her client and so obtain informed consent.

While I think reorganizing the body of the letter can make it more forceful and effective, I really appreciate the conclusion is cordial but not letting her the least bit off the hook by expressing how her actions at your birth have continued to impact you.

It's a lot of work processing through violation by a trusted person.









I wish you comfort through the journey and great release and freedom as you complete what you need to do.









~BV


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## bryonyvaughn (May 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maggi315* 
...Regardless of what happened, you now need to process it, learn from it, heal and move on. You can't change what happened, nor can you change the midwife. But you need to take care of yourself mentally and emotionally. that you do have control over.

I recognize I'm bringing my own birth rape baggage to the table *but* IMO that is what she is trying to do. She's given no indication of only feeling whole *if* the MW affirms her feelings/experience. She's not demanding the MW change but merely bringing to her attention major insensitivities in her treatment of clients and serious boundary violations.

Quote:

I always think it's good to ask the midwife for references to give a call and to try to find out from others about her and her experiences.
What is your point? Are you trying to say she got what she deserved because she didn't research the MW well enough in advance? If not are you trying to give her helpful advice for a future birth? If so 1) she's no where near that point right now and 2) as she's already found out this is a common enough theme in her MW's practice, I'm sure she already knows that well from experience. Like I said, I have my own sensitivity to this due to past abuse *but* I still think that comment was neither necessary nor helpful.

Quote:

Not meaning to sound harsh, although maybe it is, just giving my opinion. for what it may be worth...

I think maybe the healthiest thing for you is to get birth counseling and let it go with the midwife. Otherwise, you will keep rehashing and feel more frustrated if you don't get a good response from her. You aren't responsible for her response, just your own...
It's interesting we're reading the same posts. What leads you to assume the OP is unhealthily rehashing and fixating instead of healthfully processing and releasing?

To this thread generally, I don't think anyone should discourage a woman from sharing her story, especially if it is one of violation on a path to healing.

I avoided MWs like lepers for years. I've told my story to people in the NCB community and watched jaws drop in shock and horror at my MWs reckless, life endangering actions but still I was encouraged to keep it quiet, not rock the boat, and not hamper the midwifery movement and the freedom and choice it brings women. Well I think that is the same "us versus them", round the wagons, the patients are the enemy and we must protect our own mentality that infuriates so many MWs when they see it in OBs.

If women don't speak out and the midwifery community refuses to hold its own accountable, they deserve the same scorn they reserve for the obstetric community.

~BV


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## mama in the forest (Apr 17, 2006)

Crystal,






















My heart breaks for what you went through. I am so sorry that you were violated in that way. You are a courageous woman...brave, to face this and express your feelings in that letter. Send it. And do not hesitate to send a letter to her board. If it helps one woman...just one, from being victimized by her, you will be doing a good thing.

Take good care of yourself. Heal yourself.


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

I didn't say she shouldn't process through what happened or share her story. i just think that by going face to face and confronting the midwife, may backfire if she is still feeling vulnerable and in the long term make things worse.

People that deal with birth trauma often recommend that you share your story with others who have had similar experiences, work through the pain and emotions in a safe environment, write a letter to the abuser, and if you decide to confront her, do so with another person, hopefully a birth trauma counselor.

I never said she deserved her treatment, i said I hoped others reading it learned from it. Because anytime we go through bad things in life, one of the good that can come from it is that we teach others and save them from the same pain.

By suggesting that others research their hcps, whether it be midwife, family doc, whatever, get references, talk to others, I am hoping people won't blindly think that just because someone has the initials or even the experience makes them a good fit for them.

an example is a local surgeon, who is an excellent surgeon, btw, but I can't stand the man. professionally when I am working in the hospital and personally because I see him in neighborhood functions. and because I know that about him, what an @ss his is, I wouldn't go to him. And if you talk to his former patients they will tell you what an @ss he is, it's not a secret.

Maybe I will stop posting because I think that I am being misinterpreted. I don't blame the op, I just want her to find the strength to move past this, heal, get outside help. and I don't think that trying to talk with the midwife, or meet with her is going to accomplish that. In fact, I fear it will just cause more pain and suffering.

Crystal, i do hope you heal, I hope you have a wonderful birth next time if you have another baby.

And btw, I am seeing someone tomorrow who is 38 weeks and decided that they wanted to change because they are having bad vibes from their current midwife who has done some things she hasn't been comfortable with. So we will meet and decide if she wants me to be her midwife. Others might not take someone so late in pregnancy, but I firmly believe women need to be a good fit and if she is getting bad vibes, deserves to be able to change.


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

Maggi315, I don't find your comments, however unintentionally harsh, helpful, healing or empowering.

I feel sad sometimes when people seem to forget that the posters are real people, with genuine emotions.

-Crystal


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maggi315* 
And btw, I am seeing someone tomorrow who is 38 weeks and decided that they wanted to change because they are having bad vibes from their current midwife who has done some things she hasn't been comfortable with. So we will meet and decide if she wants me to be her midwife. Others might not take someone so late in pregnancy, but I firmly believe women need to be a good fit and if she is getting bad vibes, deserves to be able to change.


I wonder, have you ever had a client tell you that she was dissapointed in your care? Did you tell her to get over it? Did you tell her that she put you on a pedestal, and therefore it was a natural let down? I surely hope not.

-Crystal


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

Your letter is good, but is not as clear about your disappointment as your OP and other posts. I think you could probably take out most of the apologies and niceties and it would more accurately match the OP.

I do know Penny Simpkin does post-birth mediation - and she pulls no punches, but has a reputation for being very fair (doesn't take the side of the midwife at all). I think she does phone work, too.

I'm really sorry. I'm not sure what else would help, but I didn't want to read and not respond.


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

sorry you didn't find my posts helpful...anyway, cynthia good mojab does birth counseling and has written some articles about it. I don't know her website off the top of my head, but I do think she does long distance counseling.

On penny simkins site, she has a questionnaire type of thing to evaluate your birth and send to your midwife, which breaks down your feelings and thoughts. She wrote it with some check boxes to help people put what they are feeling into words.

I know there's another group in california that does counseling and assists people when they want to confront their attendant, helps walk them through, gives support afterward,but i can't remember their names, maybe you could google them?

good luck, I am truly sorry you had a bad experience...

I haven't had a client tell me they were disappointed in my care, i would hope I would be able to work through it with them, but unfortunately, some midwives I know would not be open to that kind of thing, that was my fear, I guess in suggesting that you not confront directly without another person or support.


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## sapientia (Apr 22, 2007)

I am so very sorry for your experience!

I wasn't real thrilled with the midwife I used for my second birth. There was a point where I was in transition for hours (cervical lip that wouldn't budge for a loooonnng time) it was in the middle of the night, I had back to back contractions-thought I was dying-i tried to call out to my husband to help me and the midwife woke up (she was asleep) to tell me he needed to rest and for me to leave him alone (!!!) I'd been up all day and night and he'd gotten periodic naps. I felt so isolated. Finally my dear friend who was there heard me and sat with me and held me. ...that's the only thing that kept me from going hysterical. I felt ABANDONED and in sheer hell from the pain.

I never confronted her and it's been 11 years. Sometimes it still stings.


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

_By suggesting that others research their hcps, whether it be midwife, family doc, whatever, get references, talk to others, I am hoping people won't blindly think that just because someone has the initials or even the experience makes them a good fit for them._

i agree that people should research their providers and try to find the best fit. but, i do not like the implication that people don't do this, or that if they don't like their provider during or after the fact, they haven't done their research.

i know that there are people who don't, but in my experience, they are actually a minority. most of my friends ask the group for references, research different ones, go on their own 'vibes' from the practitioner and so on. i know that i do this.

but there is also another wrinkle--even doing this does not guarentee a 'good fit.' for me, i have very specific ideas about health care, but my insurance company doesn't agree. to get coverage and the incentive benefits, i have to go to these kinds of health care providers, not those. and then, even among those, there is "the network." my choices are very limited.

so you can imagine how difficult it is to find someone in so small a field of people, even with recommendations. i have, to date, only found people whom i can marginally tolerate.

when it comes to birth, it's even tougher. beyond insurance company issues (they prefer hospital birth), you have the fact that my region has mostly CNMs and not CPMs or DEMs. Most are connected to a birth center or hospital and don't do home birth.

I want a UC with midwife as back up (on call), and most CNMs would not agree with this. CPMs are hard to find, and i've found _two_ that seem like the 'sort' that will support UC.

I have yet to interview them and ask for references, though one comes very highly recommended from HBers in my area.

What are the odds that even if these two women is supportive of UC and will be back up, that we'll "get along?" or that we'll "gel" as a client-provider? I don't think the odds are that great.

and that's not to say that we're not nice people. i'm sure that both midwives are great women and caregivers, and i'm a nice person. but, i also know that not everyone gets along with everyone and would feel comfortable having them in such an intimate environment even if they do 'get along.'

so, even if i've done all that i can, that doesn't mean that the provider and I are going to "fit." and even if we don't fit, i may have to go with her anyway just because she's the best option that i have.

and if i come out of it feeling like i didn't get the care i wanted, it wouldn't necessarily be because she's a bad person or i'm a bad person or whatever--but simply because we didn't gel.

but what choice, really, did we have aside from moving to another place with more midwives?


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

I was in a very similar situation. The MW who attended my birth was the onyl one in the state that would come to me for a HB. Although she wasn't perfect (her partner was amazing, though) I stuck with her because my other option involved sitting in a ferry line, riding a ferry for an hour, driving for an hour and THEN either being at a birth center or the hospital. Pretty lame all around.

I think MW's should follow up on whatever promises they make regarding theri care. If they frequently refer to the MW model of non-interventionist, mother centered, respectful care, they should provide it.

AT one point my MW's parnted sat my DH down to tell HIM how to deliver the baby. She thought we wouldn't call them (The other MW was sceduled to come unless she was over worked..although she was and came any way) because that day the main MW had had a pretty thorough freak out where she asked me to come to their clinic to have the baby. They are a 3 hour drive and a ferry ride away. Uch. My only other options were even worse though. So. Yeah, I chose to stick with her, but there wasn't much of a choice there.

-Crystal


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sea_joy* 
What do you mean by this? What do you consider the limitations of having a practitioner? I am wonderign because I am seriously considering the idea of not having an attendant next time.

CHeck out Laurie Morgan's book, The Power of Pleasurable Childbirth. I've had a hospital waterbirth, attended both hospital births and midwife-attended homebirth which were very hands-off, and had a UC, and for me having any sort of attendant would definitely not be an option if I were to have any more kids. It's a completely different experience, in ways I doubt I could even explain. The book I mentioned does a pretty decent job with at least some of it!


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SublimeBirthGirl* 
CHeck out Laurie Morgan's book, The Power of Pleasurable Childbirth. I've had a hospital waterbirth, attended both hospital births and midwife-attended homebirth which were very hands-off, and had a UC, and for me having any sort of attendant would definitely not be an option if I were to have any more kids. It's a completely different experience, in ways I doubt I could even explain. The book I mentioned does a pretty decent job with at least some of it!

Thanks! I'll try it out.

-Crystal


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## Yo Becca (Apr 17, 2005)

I had an annoying situation with my first midwife - a CNM, hospital delivery. I felt bullied by her into pitocin, when I was willing to continue with a slower labor and there were no signs of distress/concern. It was frustrating b/c I couldn't negotiate while in labor. But I was able to put my foot down in certain ways, and even though I had pitocin, I was otherwise medication free and had pretty close to the birth I wanted.

For my second birth, I went with a lay midwife and a home birth. there were warning signs that she was flaky (late, cancelled appts.), but I felt I had no other options b/c of where I live. The birth went fine - she arrived to me pushing, baby born 15 minutes later. I had a 2nd degree tear, which she stitched, then a few hours after my birth she left (there was another woman in labor). She then abandoned me - no follow-up visit, no calls, nothing. I was VERY worried that my tear wasn't healing right and needed post-partum care. She finally came to see me a few weeks later (after I'd left multiple voice mails, some while sobbing) - to find that I might need my tear re-stitched. Then she flaked again and didn't come back to re-stitch me. I ended up going to a CNM at 4 weeks, to find out my tear was completely mis-stitched and infected. Prescription cream cleared up the infection, but the CNM wouldn't re-stitch my tear that soon post partum. I was able to get my HB midwife to make an appt. for the correction - and she let me down again. Never showed up, never called from me, I've never heard form her since (DS is 6 months old). By the time the CNM saw me for follow-up, it was too far along for re-stitching. I'm scared to go back to the CNM, b/c I'm scared that she's going to tell me I need surgical correction if I want to have any more kids.

really, really, I feel your pain. It's an incredible violation of trust, and very hurtful. I think your letter is well-written. Good luck finding healing.


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## StrangeMoon (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
i'm looking at midwives in the area, and just reading the birth stories--though these women who hired these midwives are very happy with their births--i see what i consider to be a lot of intervention. that makes me nervous.

I'm going through the same thing right now. I'm trying to find a midwifery practice locally that I'll be happy with so I can determine what to do about my maternity insurance rider, which I will need to have in place in January before getting pregnant. In NC, only CNMs are legally allowed to deliver babies, so I don't have much variety to choose from. (I've heard I could still use a CPM, but my husband is veeery nervous about that idea and I have no idea how I'd go about doing that anyway)

The practice I'm looking at has had glowing reviews from a lot of people, but like zoebird, I've read birth stories written by mothers who used them on blogs & livejournal that indicated that they're pretty interventionist.

I'm finding it very interesting to read all of this because I don't want to enter into these kinds of situations if it can be helped...


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## Animal_Lady (Sep 25, 2007)

I had a so-so experience with my midwife when DD was born. I went into heavy labor at Ikea while shopping with my (now) ExH, MIL and her mother. (I sat on a bed during a contraction, and the bed broke! Then I lost my mucous plug in the bathroom, and I started crying and begging my IL's to stop shopping because I had to go... they said it would just be a few more minutes!














We called the midwife, found out that her backup was on duty that day. We got to the birth center and she tried to make me comfortable. It was probably around noon, I had been having contractions since 4:30 in the morning. ExH asked her how long it would take, and she said that she thought another 24 hours. I thought "there is no way in he** I am doing this another 24 hours!! She did a VE and I was between 5 and 7 (don't remember now) Then she tried forcing me to try to drink full glasses of water, but we didn't realize I was in transition, so I just threw it up. She went back to her office to do some paperwork, and she was gone for about 45 minutes. When she came back in, I was sitting on the toilet, pushing for my life. She screamed at me "What are you doing?!" I yelled back "I HAVE TO PUSH!" She had me get on on the bed. My water broke just as I was reclining and it was green/brown. She was great about this part, though. I freaked and asked what's wrong, she said not a big deal, just a little meconium. She had me birth DDs head, removed the nuchal chord, suctioned her, then birth the rest of the baby. She let us delay clamping and cutting of the cord, and showed me the placenta. But not 20 minutes after the delivery, she tried to put a catheter in me because she said I hadn't used the bathroom yet. I asked her if was even going to let me try to pee before she catheterized me. She got all huffy and said "I guess." I had no urge to pee though, so I had her turn on the shower, set up the shower stool and sat under the hot water until I felt the urge. So she was ok... calmed me down when I was getting scared, let me move a lot. But she tried doing procedures on me that I didn't give any consent to, she discussed inappropriate things with ExH, and left me unattended for too long without realizing I was in transition. Next baby will be either HB or UC. We'll see.


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

Thank you so much for sharing your story.







It's really hepful for me to hear other women talk about their experiences. You know, I really wrestle with the guilt complex of thinking it's all my fault.







: I definetely think in my case there were a lot of factors involved, some of which were not at all my MW's doing. It's hard to suss through it all and find where all the pieces fit. I have to interview my husband about it just to see his perspective, because mine was coming from inside laborland









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Animal_Lady* 
Next baby will be either HB or UC. We'll see.


See, this is what urks me about a dissapointing Midwifery experience. I too feel like considering a UC in large part due to my first MW. People don't usually expect their OB's to satisfy them because the OB's point of view is typically "If everyone lived, it was good". A MW just doesn't have that kind of leeway.







This is sad, not because she _should_ have that leeway, she shouldn't, but because of the structure that modern Midwifery is suspended in right now.

It costs money to go to a MW school ( plus your apprenticeship), even a distance program, so you are looking to recoup your expenses from that as soon as possible, and if you are trying to support your family off of ONE income (Midwfery) I don't see how you could possibly do a good job every time. So I definetely understand why they can't be "perfect" but I certainly didn't expect perfection, I had a dream of what perfection would be, and I never considered it viable. I only expect a MW to deliver what she promises to her clients, that's all.

So many MW forget that it is an honor to be at our births, they may see 100's, but we will get maybe 3 on average. There's no room for "feeling stressed" at a birth. It's your job as a MW to say to yourself "okay, I am srressed. I'm gonna accept that stress, breathe it out and be the MW I promised this woman. I am going to be the MW she deserves."

Being a MW is a relentless calling, and I just can't see having an off day being acceptable.

By the way, I am a student MW







I will only work part time my entire career because that's the amount I believe I can be the MW women deserve. High standards for MW's? Yes. But even higher standards for myself. And lest you say "wait and see" rest assured that if a woman ever says about me any of the dissapointing things that have been said here, I would have a major life-overhaul, probably resulting in a time-out if not a retirement.

Crystal


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

Crystal

you last post was great.

i agree -- a MW is HUMAN -- but .... at the same time, as yu say even if it is just another day at the office for HER it is NOT that way for the mother ....

DH is LEO and while it is a day like any other to HIM, the people he meet it is a very differnt day and he has to remmber that.

AImee


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## stacyann21 (Oct 21, 2006)

Yes, I had a terrible experience. My MW was okay throughout my pregnancy although she was a little pushy. During birth she turned into an absolute b***h. She yelled at me to birth in positions I wasn't comfortable in, made me labor completely naked when I had planned on wearing a sports bra and forced me to get out of the tub before I wanted to. She yelled at me to "Push!" during the second stage of labor and I ended up with a 3rd degree tear which required stitches. She punched me in the stomach (uterine massage-probably the worst pain I have ever felt in my life) when I refused to take Pitocin during 3rd stage labor. She didn't help me when I had BFing problems and she was very condescending and judgemental about my parenting. It was a nightmare. It has taken me a long time to heal from that dreadful experience. Next time I'm having a home birth with a different MW!


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stacyann21* 
Yes, I had a terrible experience. My MW was okay throughout my pregnancy although she was a little pushy. During birth she turned into an absolute b***h. She yelled at me to birth in positions I wasn't comfortable in, made me labor completely naked when I had planned on wearing a sports bra and forced me to get out of the tub before I wanted to. She yelled at me to "Push!" during the second stage of labor and I ended up with a 3rd degree tear which required stitches. She punched me in the stomach (uterine massage-probably the worst pain I have ever felt in my life) when I refused to take Pitocin during 3rd stage labor. She didn't help me when I had BFing problems and she was very condescending and judgemental about my parenting. It was a nightmare. It has taken me a long time to heal from that dreadful experience. Next time I'm having a home birth with a different MW!









Wow that is just awful!

My MW acted like it was HER birth and not mine.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Yes, I was disappointed with my mw for my last hb. My first mw was great.
I'm more likely to go UC to avoid dealing with mws next go around.


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## Spark (Nov 21, 2001)

to so many of you!

I was not disapointed with my MW. But, I did have disapointment. For my 2nd birth, I was disapointed I didn't communicate my needs to her before labor. She would have been receptive, but I didn't feel confident enough to say, "I'm hoping I have the baby without you here. I want to be by myself." So, I was disapointed she came when my husband called her (not her fault!), I was disapointed that she sat between my legs when I was pushing (not her fault that I didn't tell her I didn't want that), etc. So, yes, I was disapointed, but in my case it was more disapointment that I didn't explain my needs.


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## mothercat (Mar 12, 2006)

Crystal I know that you are a student midwife, but was speaking from a laboring woman's perspective. I am a midwife with 10 years experience, but I agree with what you are saying. It is a good attitude about the work.

Whatever, has happened in my life that day or week or whatever is not what the laboring woman should have to worry about. It shouldn't be her concern that I am tired from just having come from another birth, that I have a cold (other than to keep from spreading it), or that my DH and I had an argument. When a woman calls me in labor I need to be there for her 100%. I am quite sure that she never planned to be in labor when any of the above happened in my life and it isn't fair to burden her with those things.

If I can't separate my life from the woman's labor then I need to look at my committment to being a midwife.

My clients know that they can always reach me and I *always* return their calls, It might not be right away, but they get returned. Maybe because they know I will be there when they need me, then they leave messages at the office for the non-urgent stuff. They seem to respect that when I am away from the office it is my time to not think about midwifery, and I need that time to renew so I can be with them completely when they do need me.
Because we have this understanding,I get very few inappropriate pages.

Does that make sense?


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sea_joy* 
I feel like the only one....
My midwife did a lot wrong, for example:

Also, *she pressured me to have my water broken* (although she herself was the first to tell me in my prenatal that this was an unnecessary intervention)

*Worst of all she complained continually that she was tired, and worst of all, she said she had a cold.*

*I think the responsible thing for her to do would have been to have her partner come to my birth, but my experience with her was pretty bad.* I find myself saying what I hear a lot of c-section mama's saying "at least the baby was healthy!", as if that is all we look for in a birth experience.

*I feel sad because I wanted my birth to be so much more.*

The bold parts I could have written about my midwife.
I was so disappointed with how my birth experience turned with my first daughter.
My midwife didn't call her partner to join.
She did it alone.
She broke my water (because she thought I had labored too long and that I needed a break














*even though she knew I was STRONGLY against having my water broken.

* I blame my consequent transfer to the hospital, medical intervention and eventual c-section on her.
I blame her because she broke my water.
My labor was fine until she broke my water.







:







:


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## JanetF (Oct 31, 2004)

I seriously fear for the future of midwifery when women are fobbed off about these issues and told to not complain or speak publicly about it. As a homebirth advocate it makes me shudder each and every time I hear these stories but I suck it up and go in to support the woman before all else because regardless of where or how we birth, consumers are the ones who take the brunt of a birth. We're the ones who have to live with the memory of those vital hours and days and months being taken from us if our careprovider of choice rapes us, or is disrespectful. There is no broad consumer feedback system in Australia but I encourage birthing women to post their birth stories in a geographical section of my forums so other women can read the stories and find out who the mws are while they're trying to choose one. It is interesting to me that there's sometimes such a gap between words and practice with some midwives eg "I never do VEs routinely" but all of the birth stories with that particular mw show it's the first thing she suggests on entering a woman's home every time! So while it's an imperfect reporting facility, it has thrown stuff like that into relief without me having to point it out







I've had two poor experiences with midwives and it doesn't win me friends when I talk about it. I still promote the model however as it's the best potential for women and birth that we have. We just need to remember that we are always consumers and always in charge no matter what model of care we choose.

Sending healing and love to al of us who've been betrayed in this way. Honesty is always good and for the safety of other women it's important that we speak out about our experiences.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

My 22 month old's birth was good but not great. I was very unhappy with my midwife for a long time afterwards.
I had a lot of complaints about the care I got from my midwife and never voiced them to her. I almost went back to her for my most recent birth but I am so glad I didn't. I had a much better birth experience this time, and I have been able to let go of a lot of what I was holding onto, but I still wish I'd told my first midwife how she upset me during my son's birth.


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

I'm so very sorry for your experience. I think your letter is very good.









I can relate -- my first birth was a terrible experience, in large part thanks to the midwife. During prenatals she was warm and sweet and motherly. During the labor she let me know that I was inconveniencing her, that I was making too much of the pain, that I was laboring "wrong", and that it was my fault that it was so difficult. She led me to believe that the labor should be moving faster, so we augmented with castor oil at 48 hours, which made me miserably ill. She bullied me to do many things that were contrary to what my body was telling me to do. She was harsh with me when she thought I was being "hysterical" because I wasn't being all sweet and mild like the women in Spiritual Midwifery, saying, "DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THIS BABY?". She led me to believe that the dozen or so cervical checks she did were necessary, and that I needed to start pushing right at full dilation at her direction, with two people on either side holding my legs up and her right in the middle with her hands working me over. I felt confused, intimidated, angry, scared, invaded, and betrayed. Not a state of mind conducive to normal birth. When the baby was finally out after an unnecessarily long and hard second stage, I was so traumatized that I felt no sense of connection with him (and it didn't help that they took him away to clean him and do an exam right away.) I was injured and had severe postpartum depression.

My new midwife who was to attend my second birth encouraged me to talk to the first midwife in the hopes of getting some resolution and perhaps helping her learn. It was something of a disaster because I didn't feel heard at all, and came away from it feeling like she felt I was just "one of the difficult ones".

What did help immensely was talking with other women on the internet, and my prenatal appointments with my new midwife, which basically amounted to therapy sessions. She was so understanding and validating, and just let me talk. And talk. And talk.

I had an empowering second birth with this midwife, and then because I wanted even more, I went on to UC for my next two.


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

i just wanted to say i too had a horrid expereince with my CNM for our first birth --- here in a couple of weeks we will birth with an OB.

I do not have the emotional enegery to go into it

but

she set me up to fail
belittled me
destoryed my confidence
constantly acted like something was wrong
insisted on Pit
insisted on an epdural
and gave up oin me -- walking out of the room while i was pushing
she told the doula "whatever i give up at this point" when i had pushed for 3 hours
she threathened with with a CS when my labor stalled (thus the pit) and anytime she wanted me to agree to anything .. opr jsut when she thought i wasn't giving it my all.
she accused me -- prenatally -- of starving myselkf to stay skinny
the list goes on

I totally support CNM, MW and so on ... but there is a need for MORE ACCOUNTABLITY ........... there are tooooooo many MW out there CLEARLY breaking the MW standards of care .....

Aimee


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

I can't even identify my disappointment in words to even explain. Just in case anyone was wondering why my post was so short. It's that raw, I guess. It was not the worse birth I've had by any means. And it was not like some of these other poster where they were treated so poorly.

I want to say my major beef was she didn't do enough. She did not attempt to even tell me to take it easy, slow down, etc. She didn't attempt to coach me even when I asked for someone to help me breath through the last portion. I was asking for help and didn't get it. I was telling them to say "slow down", "breath" and they didn't do it. I specifically inbetween a contrax said please tell me to slow down and breath. I knew he was coming fast and I knew what that would due to my body.

The assistant could not find a hb and I had a bruise from her pushing the doppler thing into me. This also freaked me out a bit and when I felt his head emerging I gave it all I had b/c I was seeing terror on her face and concern on my mw's face. I was scared he was in trouble, he was not.

The baby came out so fast and so furiously that he ripped me up and down and in and out really quite terribly. And then my mw just didn't stitch me up properly. After the fact, she told me she didn't know if she could stitch me up. I wish she would have told me she felt she just could not do it well. I was never given the option to possibly go to the ER and have a doctor stitch me up.

I'm not sure if I would have accepted a trip to the ER, however, it was not even discussed. And not having the option is worse than my decision to say no, you do it. KWIM???

She also didn't notice my baby was tongued tied and when my milk didn't come in I started to wonder. At 8 days PP I went and had his tongue clipped and then my milk came in over the next 2 days. This was the start to our terrible nursing relationship and it didn't have to be this way. He's 8 mo old and my supply just went away, he's had other issues too.

During my pregnancy, I probably should have had some medical tests done. I was severely anemic at 3 mo pp and I probably was anemic during the pregnancy. I also started having hypothyroid symptoms during the pregnancy and while I don't think any doctor would have treated me anyway, I'll never know and my mw didn't pick up on the symptoms, neither did a birth therapist. They all thought I was just depressed, so did I until a MDC mama directed me to some reading material by Julia Ross.

My dd was a slow labor, pushed for hours, calm mw, calm through everything, even a swelling cervix, she didn't tell me about it, she just gave me arnica and prayed without my knowledge. I was at total peace. I just didn't get good vibes from this 2nd mw hb experience. I wanted my former mw, she was just not living in a location that made that feasible.


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## i*wish (May 4, 2004)

I agree with others who've pointed out midwives are human and far from perfect. That said...I went with a group CNM practice and transferred in at 36wks (long story). I had met the midwife who was 'on' when I went into labor once. I had liked her a lot and reviewed my plan for a med-free birth. When I got there she was just. so. unsupportive. I asked for an epidural within 20min for a couple reasons. She went on explaining to my husband in front of me how the baby's heartrate looked questionable and I probably wouldn't be able to get in the tub anytime soon...plus the meconium. Couldn't she have discussed it with me? I hadn't expected to be so unable to communicate in labor...I'm pretty chatty and was pretty much speechless. I couldn't even articulate that I wanted everyone to be *silent* when I was having a contraction...Because I couldn't make that known and because nurse and MW kept chatting amongst themselves during contractions I was totally unable to cope. Couple with being on 'the monitor' in bed....it was awful. Overall she (mw) s*cked. She, of course, was working the last hour of her 24hr shift.... Once I had the epidural she let me know that I shouldn't feel disappointed ...she had had one for her first labor as well and then had a homebirth with her second. THANKs for projecting your crap onto me..... UG!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *turtlewomyn* 
The OP's comment about women who haven't given birth to children not making good midwives kind of stings, since I have thought about becoming a midwife. I guess I am not qualified at this point as I have never given birth (at least for now......)

Please don't feel as though you haven't given birth b/c of the route your baby took.... You absolutely gave birth... This makes me







Anyone with compassion can be a fabulous midwife. The one who ended up delivering my baby has never had any children and she was Far superior to the first gal! I just wish she had been on when I arrived!!!


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

I think I found her web page, and the wording about her children's births I think is misleading if I found the right page. I don't think it's a necessary qualification for a midwife to have birthed or birthed any particular way. But don't mislead clients. When we hire someone for something so personal, we may want to know a bit about her own history because she brings that to all her births at some level no matter how professional she is. Let's save puffery for selling widgits.


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## mothercat (Mar 12, 2006)

>>My new midwife who was to attend my second birth encouraged me to talk to the first midwife in the hopes of getting some resolution and perhaps helping her learn. It was something of a disaster because I didn't feel heard at all, and came away from it feeling like she felt I was just "one of the difficult ones".<<

I think there needs to be a caveat to the suggestion that women talk about their disappointment with their midwife. This can be a really bad idea, leaving the woman feeling all the more like it was all her fault.

Most of the midwives that the posters have talked about sound like they have at least some sociopathic character traits. For a sociopath it is impossible to empathize with the person they have hurt. They view them as objects to be manipulated. If the labor and birth went well, then they did a good job. If there was a problem, it couldn't possibly have been their fault. They seem to view everything as win-lose. Trying to discuss your disappointment with them and asking them to own a part of what went wrong, makes them the loser. To avoid being the loser, they will blame you, try to manipulate your feelings, try to alter your perception of the events, and they may even have others call you to tell you how wrong you are.

If all that doesn't work, they will offer personal attacks, they will belittle you and suggest you have psychiatric problems. Many will suggest you had such a strong reaction to their benign ministrations because you have a forgotten or repressed history of sexual abuse.

None of these things are true!! And even if any of them were, it doesn't change the way they treated you and how you feel about it. The good midwife should always be willing (and usually initiates the discussion) about the birth and then listens in a non-judgmental way.

It is best not to discuss your feelings about the birth with the midwives that have caused you so much heartache. You won't get the satisfaction you want and you won't get them to change the way they practice.

The way to get at least a bit of satisfaction is to file a complaint with the state licensing board if they are a CNM. If they are a CPM/LM/DEM, etc. file your complaint with the state licensing board (if there is one) or with the state midwives' group. If they are a CPM, or thinking about becoming one, or was one, then file a complaint with NARM. If a CPM has had her credentials revoked (yes, 3 have had their credentials revoked), she has to answer and resolve all past and current complaints before she can have those credentials reinstated. In states where CPM is the credential to have to become licensed and receive reimbursement from insurance, that can make a huge difference.

You may also want to google birth trauma or birth rape, and you will find sites that support healing after a traumatic birth. It's OK to say that it was assault, because it was abuse.


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

Quote:

None of these things are true!! And even if any of them were, it doesn't change the way they treated you and how you feel about it. The good midwife should always be willing (and usually initiates the discussion) about the birth and then listens in a non-judgmental way.
DO most MW talk to their moms afterwards about hw it went, how the mom feels and so on -- mine did not, she made a few comments afterward, in the i told you so tone, about the interventions .. continuesing the i let her down theme from the birth (i effected HER intevention numbers and so on ) ...


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## mothercat (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momma Aimee* 
DO most MW talk to their moms afterwards about how it went, how the mom feels and so on -- mine did not, she made a few comments afterward, in the i told you so tone, about the interventions .. continuing the i let her down theme from the birth (i effected HER intervention numbers and so on ) ...

That's a pretty good example of my comments about the lack of ability to empathize, "It's your fault and look what you did to my numbers."

I can't speak for all midwives, but I figure there is probably something at every birth that the mom or her partner wishes had gone differently. At our last appointment I always ask if there are lingering questions, if there are things that she would like to have been different, and if there were things she wishes we had done differently. I wait to the last visit for most of this, so the baby glow has worn off and there is a bit more perspective. I want honesty.

I don't get defensive, I don't argue. I figure there is something to learn at every birth and I don't know everything. I have usually done a lot of self examination (especially if the outcome was unexpected), and am able to tell her the lessons I've learned, what new skills I now have, and it gives me a chance to apologize for offenses I think I may have been responsible for. It's usually pretty minor stuff to the mom, but I want her to know.

I'm sorry that your midwife couldn't see that the birth was about you, not her.


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## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

So much about a HB and relationship with a MW really can't be prepared for, though, KWIM? Especially if it's a woman's first or a VBAC. You just can't anticipate someones demeanor in a stressful situation. I think it is vital to interview a MWs previous clients and ask pointed questions. You really have to set aside any lingering codependency







. and ask yourself Is this someone that I can labor with? Some mamas WANT a MW who will 'take charge', others want as close to a UC as possible.
My first MWs were a nightmare. They never ONCE tried to coach me or support me AT ALL. Of course I txfd but luckily no cs. My second MWs were awesome - very professional, but soft and supportive too. I have to say, though that I got lucky with my second birth. I met my MW at LLL, and she happened to be just who I needed. If I were to have another (fat chance at my advanced age-talk about an elderly multipara..) and couldn't have her, I'd be VERY picky-or UC.
laoxinat


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## michiganmidwife (May 26, 2005)

I know I'm chiming in late on this thread but I wanted to say to you Crystal, you did an amazing job of respectfully presenting your feelings in a non-threataning manner.
As a midwife of 12 years, I can say that I've learned an awful lot about how important it is to integrate into the woman and the families needs. I have dissapointed clients as well, and have learned a great deal from those expereinces.
Many midwives have held a cervical lip, broken waters, done things to get labor going, etc.. but I think the key is that these things have to be an agreement between the woman her midwife. The midwife can give her best advice about how to best help a woman. She can tell her that labor will be more effective if she changes position or whatever the case may be, but in the end, the woman needs to be supported in her choice. Even if that choice means the birth eventually ends in a transport.
We walk a delicate line between protecting the space that allows a woman to birth her baby as nature intended and being a servant of knowledge and experience that can be useful and helpful when things aren't straight forward. Most of the time this is a recepie for successful and beautiful birth experiences. But sometimes, if things are out of balance and everyone involved is not in sync, there is dissapointment for obvious reasons.

It will probably be hard for your midwife to read the letter. The reason is because we have our heart and soul invested into helping women avoid painful experiences. We want them to acheive a marvelous, blissful birth and we want to share in that bliss.

I wish you love and healing. From the sound of your letter, I'd say you're well on your way.

~Bridgett


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## mothercat (Mar 12, 2006)

Was cleaning out some old e-mails today and found an e-zine from Midwifery Today. It was part 2 of a series of 4 articles related to much of what has been covered here: bullying by midwives. The article I saw talked about the characteristics of a bully vs. a sociopath and had commentary from some psychologists as to how and why this happens.
I am hoping the other parts of this series will offer some help for women who have suffered birth trauma and birth rape.

here is the link to Part 1 (defining the problem)
http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/bullying_1.asp

here is the link to Part 2 (Spring 2007) (the how and why)
http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/bullying_2.asp

here is the link to Part 3 (PTSD as a result of bullying)
http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articl...ullrelease.asp

This last one has a lot of really good information about how bullies chose their targets and what events then cause the bully to take action to eliminate the target. Yikes, it is pretty scary stuff.

I couldn't find the link for the fourth part which I hope deals with healing and recovery for the woman. It's probably in the fall issue and just not available on line yet.

I hope that there is some information here that is helpful.


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## Climbing Rose (Dec 10, 2006)

TBH, there are some things I would change about my midwife. She is more hands-on and tech orientated than I would like. (My first midwife who now lives 2000 miles away was more my style.) I could list a few things, but I guess I have just decided to just let it go.

I have had enough births now to know that I honestly just do not like births, and the few little things my mw does/doesn't do isn't going to make or break it for me.

However, if she did major things like kept touching my cervix or wouldn't let me in the tub, I would definitely not be okay with that. I would not use her again. I don't know if I would have the couage to tell her why, but I am a wuss like that. =(


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## KariM (Mar 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mothercat* 
here is the link to Part 1 (defining the problem)
http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/bullying_1.asp

here is the link to Part 2 (Spring 2007) (the how and why)
http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/bullying_2.asp

here is the link to Part 3 (PTSD as a result of bullying)
http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articl...ullrelease.asp



Thanks so much for sharing the links to the articles! They were really enlightening for me and helped me better understand my situation and responses to it.


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