# Issues with my mom - multigenerational living not working



## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I'm not sure where to put this because this is about the family dynamic with my mother. But it's a multi-generational issue, so I guess parenting is included. I hope it doesn't get too long.

Backstory:
My mother had to move in with us a few years ago. In a nutshell, she cannot handle money, was getting too old to work full-time and just couldn't support herself on social security and part-time work under a mountain of consumer debt. We have supported her for 4 years now. She doesn't pay for anything... including the car we bought for her, insurance, gasoline, food, utilities, her cell phone, etc. We pay it all. She uses her SS to pay for her medicines, supplemental insurance, clothes, junk food (which I will not buy), and fast food (which we will not eat) for lunch almost every day. She blows a lot of her money on junk... Wal-mart junky stuff that breaks 2 days later and she throws away. Also, when she moved in, we paid to build an addition on our house so she would have her own private bedroom and living room. She still has to come into the main house for bath and kitchen.

Over the past year, I've grown kind of bitter about this whole situation because she is actually very able-bodied and she does next to NOTHING to help out here. The one thing she does do is help with picking up dd from school (it's about an hour away). She also does the dinner dishes (we have a dishwasher, though) if she eats with us (which is the norm).

My mother can't cook. I don't want help there. But she can do many other things. However she was/is a lazy person, in general. She also was a mean and spiteful mother (telling us DAILY that she would "call the welfare and have them take [us] away if we didn't mind"). I really thought she had changed, but she hasn't. I know that some of my issues relate to what a horrible mother she was to us. When I've tried to talk to her about it, she'll say, "What do you want me to do? Say I'm sorry? I'm sorry, OK?" And it's in a very flippant way. My biggest problem is that old attitude carrying over in her interactions with dd.

She gets short with dd and says some nasty things and THAT is what I get most pissed off about. She'll come in to use the bathroom and see me struggling to do something and just look at me and walk back out to her rooms. She *never* offers to help with anything. I'm a proud person and have a hard time asking for help.

She is THE.PICKIEST.EATER.ALIVE. I tend to cook foods that she will eat rather than what we prefer. She gets an attitude when I say I want to make Indian food or Chinese. For example, stir-fry, heavy on veggies, was a usual dish here and I've not made it once she she moved in. This also limits our choices for eating out. We like the local Greek restaurant, Turkish (dh is from Turkey), Japanese Teppanyaki... mom will not eat at these places and so we end up the local pasta place or steakhouse every time we eat out. I would love to eat out just the 3 of us, but she makes me feel so guilty "leaving her out", that I just don't go through with it. She is also a huge eater... she adds $20 to our restaurant bill and has never offered to pay for her part. I'll admit that that bugs me, too. She has come to EXPECT everything from us without feeling any gratitude for what we do for her. And her attitude extends to others, too. The other day in a restaurant, she ordered coffee. They were brewing it, and when the server brought just our waters, she turns to him and says, "I want my coffee NOW!" It was so rude I wanted to just crawl under the table.

Lately, I've just tried to stay away from her and have dd stay away from her (and dd really loves her). This situation is not one that can last, though. The tension is high. She is visiting a family member this week and everyone here is just in a good mood and happy. When she's here, it's gloomy.

I know part of it is my attitude, but I don't know what to do. She acts like a wounded animal if I say, "Hey mom, we just want to go out to dinner alone... the 3 of us." She makes a big production if she had to fill her car herself. (Side note: when looking for a car for her, she absolutely HAD to have this Mercedes and wouldn't look at any other car, so it takes premium gas and now she complains about gas prices







)

It's gotten to the point that in the morning, when dh takes dd off to school and I have a few minutes to be here on MDC, it just makes me MAD that she wakes up early and is putzing around here in the kitchen making coffee, mumbling to herself. She's not "bothering" me... I just don't want her around. I want some time TO MYSELF!

Dd has picked up on the negative vibes between my mom and me. I don't even know what to do. Maybe it's just a vent. I'm tired of mom doing NOTHING around here and us supporting her 100%. I want to be able to do things with just my dh and dd without having her tag along. I want some time to be in my home BY.MY.SELF... all alone to read or watch TV or sleep or just... whatever. I miss having time alone. Between work, my mom, dd, etc. I have almost NO time alone and it's something that I have always really NEEDED. I am not the kind of person who likes to be around a lot of people all the time and we have an only because I did not want a house full of kids. Last summer, I asked my sister if Mom could stay 2 weeks with her so dd and I could just have some "us" time... my sister's reply was, "Yes, but you OWE ME, big time!!" Uh... my sisters have done NOTHING to help support Mom for 4 years. I owe HER????

I don't know what I want... maybe just to vent. My sisters have never helped. My mom doesn't appreciate what we've done for her. I'm just feeling used, I guess. And it's showing with the tension in our relationship. I don't even want her around dd anymore. There's just so much negativity. When I try to talk to her, she comes back with, "Oh GOD! I can't do ANYTHING right in your eyes, can I?" I do thank her for doing the dishes every time she does them and when she picks up dd. But to be honest, although I love my mom, over the past few years I've stopped LIKING her.

My sisters are not in a position to take her permanently. I'd have to go back to work full-time to get her her own place, but that would defeat the purpose. I can't just kick her out. Thoughts?


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## sebandg'smama (Oct 29, 2005)

Retirement home for your mom asap!

My home is my haven, I am very selective to who even visits it. I could never ever have my mother over for more than a dinner a month.
Through hard life lessons I have learned that being a martyr is not the role I ever want to play again.

I hope that you can have your home back for the health of your whole family.

-Melanie


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebandg'smama* 
Retirement home for your mom asap!

My home is my haven, I am very selective to who even visits it. I could never ever have my mother over for more than a dinner a month.
Through hard life lessons I have learned that being a martyr is not the role I ever want to play again.

I hope that you can have your home back for the health of your whole family.

-Melanie

Retirement home is about $4000/month. We can't afford that. I couldn't send her to a retirement home AND work full-time AND deal with dd's school, which is 1 hour away.

Thank you, though.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

So to sum up:

You bought your Mom a Mercedes and she complains about the gas.

You built a bedroom and bathroom for her but aside from picking up your dd she does not help at all around the house.

You include her in everything but in order to do so have to eat at restaurants you don't care for and aren't able to cook food you really like.

Have welcomed her into your home only to have to listen to her be ungrateful and rude to you and your dd.

Have bent over backwards to help her financially and she does not reciprocate at all ever.

Are finding yourself more and more miserable in your OWN HOME, and know it is rubbing off on your daughter and your husband.

I think you already know what you need (not should, NEED) to do here. Your Mom needs to find a new place to live.

I am not minimizing how difficult this could be, and how bad her reaction may be.

But, when one person is bringing down the peace and prosperity of a home, that person either needs to change, or needs to go. And it sounds like she is unlikely to change.

I admire you for all that you have done for her. Regardless of what she did wrong, you clearly turned out to be compassionate and caring. However, she is taking advantage of your good qualities.

I would begin looking around for senior apartment living. I would find a place first, before telling her that you need your home back. Depending on what you can afford I might consider paying the first 6 mos rent. But, I could no longer continue to be the sole means of support for her. Why aren't your sisters helping more? WOuld they be willing to help with the rent?

Your Mom has developed a keen sense of entitlement when it comes to you, and I would not stand for that. Multigenerational living should work for both parties-it should not be one person giving 100% and getting nothing in return. In fact, less then nothing.


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## rlmueller (May 22, 2009)

I could've written it myself--except my dad is in a camper in the back yard. I'll keep reading for suggestions.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Wow. I can totally see how stressful that can be.

I can also imagine that the advice to kick her out isn't going to feel like "wow! why didn't I think of that!" for you. I don't have any brilliant gems of wisdom but what occured to me is that it's time for you to start asserting yourself and stop feeling guilty.

You CAN go out to dinner just the 3 of you. Yes, your mom will bitch and moan and whine. Can you readjust how you see it so the whining is all about your mother, and not about what an awful daughter you are? Even better, set a weekly habit of going out, say, every Thursday night. Your mom can plan ahead. Go out to a movie. See a friend. Go through her favorite drive-through. Stay home and enjoy some peace and quiet. Whatever. She can make herself a victim in this but you don't have to play along.

I know this is easier said than done but I just think this is the only way you're going to manage. It's YOUR house. There needs to be some back-and-forth. OK, let's take the restaurants again, sometimes you can go to her resstaurants and sometimes you can go to yours. She doesn't like Indian food? Oh, ok mom, would you like to stay home and order yourself some pizza, or would you like to come along with us and see if there's anything you might like? Next time we'll go to the steak place.

She is NOT entitled to be served at her every whim. There's give-and-take in every relationship. If you were talking about a FRIEND, you'd switch choosing restaurants every other time, wouldn't you?

I haven't read the book Boundaries but I see it recommended a lot, and sounds like something that could help. I think it will help ease a lot of your stress if you felt more empowered and less enmeshed.

It's your house, you can set ground rules. Do you need her to do more around the house? Tell her. Put up a whole family chore chart. No, she doesn't have to check it off every day or anything stupid like that, but just list who is responsible for what. Put your jobs on there too, you get credit for that









But I still feel you, I CRINGE at the idea of my mom coming to live at my house. And even so, my mom would not be complaining like that and not expect to be dragged along to every single family dinner, and she would certainly pay her way or something like that (even just springing for the tip... SOMETHING).


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## sebandg'smama (Oct 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
Wow. I can totally see how stressful that can be.

*I can also imagine that the advice to kick her out isn't going to feel like "wow! why didn't I think of that!" for you.* I don't have any brilliant gems of wisdom but what occured to me is that it's time for you to start asserting yourself and stop feeling guilty.

You CAN go out to dinner just the 3 of you. Yes, your mom will bitch and moan and whine. Can you readjust how you see it so the whining is all about your mother, and not about what an awful daughter you are? Even better, set a weekly habit of going out, say, every Thursday night. Your mom can plan ahead. Go out to a movie. See a friend. Go through her favorite drive-through. Stay home and enjoy some peace and quiet. Whatever. She can make herself a victim in this but you don't have to play along.

I know this is easier said than done but I just think this is the only way you're going to manage. It's YOUR house. There needs to be some back-and-forth. OK, let's take the restaurants again, sometimes you can go to her resstaurants and sometimes you can go to yours. She doesn't like Indian food? Oh, ok mom, would you like to stay home and order yourself some pizza, or would you like to come along with us and see if there's anything you might like? Next time we'll go to the steak place.

She is NOT entitled to be served at her every whim. There's give-and-take in every relationship. If you were talking about a FRIEND, you'd switch choosing restaurants every other time, wouldn't you?

I haven't read the book Boundaries but I see it recommended a lot, and sounds like something that could help. I think it will help ease a lot of your stress if you felt more empowered and less enmeshed.

It's your house, you can set ground rules. Do you need her to do more around the house? Tell her. Put up a whole family chore chart. No, she doesn't have to check it off every day or anything stupid like that, but just list who is responsible for what. Put your jobs on there too, you get credit for that









But I still feel you, I CRINGE at the idea of my mom coming to live at my house. And even so, my mom would not be complaining like that and not expect to be dragged along to every single family dinner, and she would certainly pay her way or something like that (even just springing for the tip... SOMETHING).

Good advice, but I just wanted to address advice about kicking her out. I do believe that people sometimes need permission to entertain the thought of doing something drastic. When you grow up in an emotionally abusive environment you often believe that you deserve certain treatment and that the abuser's needs come before your own.

-Melanie


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebandg'smama* 
Good advice, but I just wanted to address advice about kicking her out. I do believe that people sometimes need permission to entertain the thought of doing something drastic. When you grow up in an emotionally abusive environment you often believe that you deserve certain treatment and that the abuser's needs come before your own.

-Melanie

Well said. OP it sounds like you are having lots of issues about trying to please your Mom, carrying over from childhood perhaps?







If you're not ready quite yet to tell her to go (though I think this needs to happen eventually), then start with small changes. Cook what the heck YOU want for dinner! Go with just DH and DD to dinner. A "normal" mom would get it. Every family needs their alone time.

Oh, she needs to start pitching in with housework. And a Mercedes? seriously?


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

You are amazingly generous. I do believe in taking care of my elders, but you are going way above and beyond. From what you say, your mom reminds me a lot of my own, BIG TIME!!!

If asking her to move is not an option, then I think you need to get some boundaries. This is not easy and I had to set some with my mom. It took a lot of time, discussion and reinforcement. Sometimes she still gets pissy and says or does something I don't like. Thankfully she does not live with us, or I'd be in prison. She brings it up from time to time, even moving closer to us, and I manage to deflect.

You have to be absolutely clear in her interactions with your DD and what they are to resemble. This is a non-negotiable. My mom once called my DS1 a "weird kid" to his face. DS1 who is very sensitive was hurt and I asked him to go watch some dinosaurs while I quietly read her the riot act and my expectations and the consequences if she did not live up to them. What she used as parenting for you is not okay for your DD. You have to figure out what those consequences are and stick to them.

Likewise with interactions with yourself. Every time my mom starts on me about my house, how I do something, how I cook something, I ask her "Do you treat your best friend this way?" she looks at me, and I say "Then you don't treat me this way." I am an adult now, I would not tolerate constant nasty behaviour towards me from a friend. Family gets a little more leeway, but I am not going to be someone she can guilt, dump on, criticise, act spoiled or demand her way.

It's not unreasonable to ask for family time or alone time. Since you share some spaces like kitchen or bathrooms, you should define your space in another area. You can also ask for different times, like a dinner or lunch, or go out to brunch without her.

I'd sell the Mercedes (if it's still your car) and get a Civic. The gas, insurance and whatnot must be costing you a fortune. Unless she is going to take over the expenses. If she can afford to buy junk, she can afford premium gas and insurance.

Secondly, if she doesn't like your cooking, she can cook or get take away or whatever. Set a meal plan for the week, let her know that on Tuesday, you're going to be cooking Indian. My mom is picky too. Meat, potato, vegetables boiled to death. Anyone in this house either eats what I cook, or they're welcome to get themselves a piece of fruit, make their own, etc.

Going out, what DH's family did, once the boys were old enough to have preferences is that everyone takes a turn to select their restaurant. If she's not interested, then she can stay home. She can also pick up her own tab, not just $20.00 of it. Separate cheques.

Write up a chore's list. If she is contributing to the household mess, then she can help tidy it up.

I'd try to find another method of getting DD home from school, at least in the interim if you're going to go this route. I think things may get a lot yuckier, before they get better. They DO get better.

My mom, is generally 90% good now. Before the kids arrived she was a pill. I remember telling her when I was pregnant that I'm about to be a mother and I cannot take care of her anymore and would not put up with X, Y, Z. So if she wanted to have a relationship with me and her grandkids, this was the tune.

Your other options are as I see them, is getting her her own place, which you said is not an option. Building her her own kitchen and bathroom so she can have her own living space period. Sharing common areas, but otherwise leading pretty separate lives.

This is not going to be easy. I feel for you, I really do. Have you considered therapy? It does help. There are some topics I won't even broach with my mother, because she gets defensive and shuts down, but it did help me become a stronger person and ask for the courtesy I deserve.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

I don't think you need to kick her out, but I do think you need to set some clear boundaries.

Another expense, but could you get her a mini-fridge and coffee maker for her area of the house, so you can have your mornings to yourself?

Look at your day and identify when she is stressing you the most. Then try to come up with solutions.

My mom is very difficult to talk to, and also very defensive, it is definitely easier to "go along" with her than to rock the boat. But sometimes, you need to do it. One thing that helped me in my relationship with my mom, was to think about what I DID want, not what I don't want.

You want a harmonious home--what would that look like to you?

You need some space and privacy--how can you get that?

You want your relationship with your mom to improve, not disintegrate--how can make that happen?

Is there a way you can have that conversation with your mom, even if it's difficult. Can you preface the conversation with a statement of love and support--that you do love her, that you want her to stay, but in order for the arrangement to be a long-term success, she needs more independence and you need more privacy. Try to find ways to frame what you want for her as positives--as in, you want her to have an independent life--not, you want her to stop being lazy and dependent.

About her interactions with your daughter, that is troubling. Part of me says, address it immediately. Part of me wonders if you deal with the three things above if her behavior will fall into place or at least be way minimized.

I'm sorry you are going through this, it stinks to do a nice thing and then feel taken advantage of, and there is something so primal about problems with your mom--even if they've been ongoing for your whole life. I had two solid years of fighting with my mom, and now we've come out to the other side and our relationship is actually loving and functional.

One book that really helped me was Dr Wayne Dyer's Power of Intention, which is kind of his version of The Secret but it has some good advice about relationships and how to let go of that negativity that can really poison all of your interactions.

I have a feeling that working this out with your mother won't be easy, but I think you are rational and level-headed enough to do it.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

And everything Joyster said, too. You might be my Canadian soul sister--that's pretty much my exact experience.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

I would be wild if my sister said what yours did in that situation. But looking at it from afar, I can see another side.

It may be that your siblings have separated themselves from your mother's behavior and are refusing to take responsibility for it. Because they know what kind of situation it will lead to. And that is one possibility for you - she is a grown woman. We are responsible to help our family, but not to save them from themselves. No one can do that.

I think that your other option is to lay down the law and not respond to her manipulative behavior. If she makes a fuss because you go out without her, too bad. If she will only drive a fancy car, then she can buy it herself.

To me, it sounds like she has something like Borderline Personality Disorder. If so, it's unlikely she will change, and you will have to decide how you want to deal with her in that context.


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## GranoLLLy-girl (Mar 1, 2005)

I wouldn't say generous, I would say co-dependent. Each one of the scenarioes you have described does not include what you have done to put the limits on the situation. I'm not trying to be mean, but I do think that you are responsible for this situation because you have gone through these extreme measures and you can't figure out why she isn't more grateful. She isn't going to ever be grateful. She isn't going to change. She's an adult.
You don't have to kick her out in order to make some serious changes in YOUR life.
You tell her that she can live there but she needs to PAY for a SMALL part of the bills. You start setting limits on the living arrangements.
You are responsible for your life now. I wouldn't even bother to bring up the past. She cannot change the past. You cannot change your childhood. It sucked. But YOU can navigate the present and the future. For some reason you are the only one carrying this guilt for something in your past and you feel like you owe your mother something--but what? You said your family isn't buying into it or helping--but really, why should they? They have obviously set limits and are making her responsible for herself...and while it seems mean spirited, it's actually the healthiest thing that they can do for her and for them. I would be afraid that after a while this woman could destroy your current family. And then where your mom be?
I would seek counseling for myself and read TOXIC PARENTS. I would also get into a co-dependent group of some sort--mayb an Al-Anon type group. I would start setting small boundaries at first, if it is painful to you, and then larger ones. You need to get a grip on this now BEFORE she goes from an able-bodied person to a person who is not able-bodied, because when that happens, it's a whole different set of problems. I hope this works out--your heart is in the right place, but this is actually a bad situation for EVERYONE involved so it's up to you to start making changes.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Thanks for the replies.

I think setting boundaries and just "getting on with life" is the best path to take. I wish I had time address all the replies, but I don't right now. It was good to get it off of my chest, though.

My mother only gets about $700/month income through SS, so it's not like she's spending a ton of money. She could pay for her own meals out and that might be a good path to take. I don't want it to sound like she spending thousands and could substantially help out with bills. She probably has a few hundred left over each month after paying for her medicine and medicare supplemental.

Setting boundaries is important. We didn't do this when she moved in.

I'll respond more later. I have a load laundry to get to and supper to prep... which is Indian tonight because Mom is gone.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *madskye* 
And everything Joyster said, too. You might be my Canadian soul sister--that's pretty much my exact experience.

We need to start a support group for daughters with challenging moms that we love, but wouldn't mind dropping a water balloon on sometimes.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Setting boundaries is important. We didn't do this when she moved in.

I just wanted to give some hugs... I don't have time to respond right now-- but please, please, please don't become me.

I wouldn't wish my life on anyone-- not even my MIL.








s.


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## MissLotus (Nov 2, 2005)

The whole situation would drive me crazy. But yes, boundaries! It sounds like she complains no matter what you do, so oh well - do what _you_ need to. Everyone is entitled to family time, and so are you. You are also entitled to alone time. Maybe you are most frustrated with yourself for not putting your foot down sooner. But there's no way around it, you have to.

And really, not all retirement homes are $4000 a month! Maybe ones with all the bells and whistles - but, I know near me AND also near my parents who live in another state, there are very decent and nice senior apartments for those 65+, where the rent is just a percentage of whatever their income is. This is very common. This may be a better option for you all, rather than going slowly insane.


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

If I lived with my dad, I'd be having boundary issues, too, I know, so I feel for you.

I'm on a 'Love and Logic' kick right now, though and it occurred to me that it would work so well with your mom. Have you heard of it? It is billed as a parenting technique, but works so well with adults (I use it on my husband all the time







).

I'd pick one issue to tackle at a time - probably the food one, since that would be relatively easy (not painless, mind you, but easy to figure out what you should be doing). Pick a day when you have the strength to deal with your mom without losing it and when everyone is in an OK mood. Tell your mom that you are happy to cook things she enjoys, but that you've realized that you've stopped making food the rest of the family enjoys to accomodate her, and that can't continue. Let her know that you are going to make 'x' for dinner tonight, and that she is free to join you or to go out on her own for dinner - she can choose. If (what am I talking about - when







) she throws a fit, don't engage her, don't apologize. Come up with a stock phrase like "That is so sad" or "I love you too much to argue" and keep repeating it as many times as you need to with empathy. Being empathetic (and not sarcastic) is key. You don't want to punish her for her behavior - you just want the behavior to change going forward. Don't let her ruffle you. I suspect it will take a few times, but she'll get the picture that 'how it is' has changed.


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Owen'nZoe* 
Come up with a stock phrase like "That is so sad" or "I love you too much to argue"

"I am sorry you feel that way."

First, I would make a list of nearby and far away relatives she can stay with. It would be possible to plan a "vacation" for her to visit your sisters and other relatives. 2 weeks per sister, 1 week for other relatives.. this would get her out of your hair for a while. It is a backup plan, not an immediate "fix".

When a retired person has no assets, there are state-sponsored nursing homes and subsidized rent apartments which could take her in. You could put her on a waiting list for whatever is appropriate. I have seen the inside of one of these apartment buildings, the apartments are small but safe and very livable. She might even be happier living with many other retired people. (constant social interaction, no cooking required!) She would have the best car in the whole place!














Another "out" is to take her to a hotel, pay for a night, and not let her come back home. The state will find her a place to stay. Sure, you _won't_ do this. But that is because you are a nice person, not because you _can't_ do it.

At her age, she is not going to change. (unless medication will help







) The complaints are going to be permanent. You need to change your reaction to them. If she is not happy with a Mercedes, she is not happy, period.

Make what you like for dinner. If she complains, she does not have to eat it. Go out when you want to, where you want to go, without her. Leave a frozen pizza for her. Decide what behavior of her needs to be changed (probably how she interacts with your daughter) that is the only behavior of hers you need to try to change. Everything else, just ignore.

You have done so much already. If that is not appreciated, nothing will be.







s


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## Lucy Alden (Jun 15, 2009)

My mom living with me! Did anyone else just feel the cold hand of death pass over?









I think it's easy to tell someone to just pack their parent off to a nursing home or lay down the law. Unfortunately, parent/child relationships are just so much more complicated than this. For those who have been able to do this I applaud you. For the rest of us, it's just so dang difficult to tackle the years of baggage and pain.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Owen'nZoe* 
I'd pick one issue to tackle at a time - probably the food one, since that would be relatively easy (not painless, mind you, but easy to figure out what you should be doing). Pick a day when you have the strength to deal with your mom without losing it and when everyone is in an OK mood. Tell your mom that you are happy to cook things she enjoys, but that you've realized that you've stopped making food the rest of the family enjoys to accomodate her, and that can't continue. Let her know that you are going to make 'x' for dinner tonight, and that she is free to join you or to go out on her own for dinner - she can choose. If (what am I talking about - when







) she throws a fit, don't engage her, don't apologize. Come up with a stock phrase like "That is so sad" or "I love you too much to argue" and keep repeating it as many times as you need to with empathy. Being empathetic (and not sarcastic) is key. You don't want to punish her for her behavior - you just want the behavior to change going forward. Don't let her ruffle you. I suspect it will take a few times, but she'll get the picture that 'how it is' has changed.

I think this seems like a fair and reasonable approach. Small changes, simple language. Give her and yourself time to adjust to a new approach. In the meantime I'd look into senior housing. In our area, there are places that are subsidized and are actually quite nice. That way if behavior modification doesn't work you have a Plan B.

And







. Dealing with parents is rough stuff.


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## JessBB (Apr 10, 2007)

This might be already and definitely WILL be damaging to your daughter. Is this really the dynamic you want to model to her? Also, do you want to send the message that you will tolerate someone being cruel and disrespectful to you and her? I think you need to lay down some boundaries immediately and include some consequences. It seems absolutely wrong that you should let your mom ruin your life







.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

You don't owe your mom this. You don't owe her anything.

How much is a studio apt. where you live? Here, it's about $400/mo. That's all she needs--a roof over her head.

If you can't kick her out for your sake, do it for your dd. Do you want the ENTIRE REST OF HER CHILDHOOD to include this woman in her home?


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

AND you said that your mom is "bad with money." This is what dh said about his mom and her bad spending habits:

"She refused to make sacrifices and save her money. So, why should I be the one making sacrifices instead?"

I think it's good advice.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Well...you can't make anyone else change you can only make changes yourself. You are choosing to do all the things that are making it possible for her to behave and live this way. On a practical note, you might want to read Love and Logic for Teens with your mother being the teen.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I want to thank everyone for the responses.

I have written down all of the books suggested and will look into them at the library.

I agree with those that say that there needs to be a better environment for our dd. She really loves my mom and the majority of the time, there are no issues at all with them - it's when things happen that I just get my mama claws out. Dd is 8 now, and knows that if my mom starts talking short with her, she can walk out of her rooms and come talk to me. I've had many talks with my mom about it. She did say last time that she is going to try to work on that. I asked dd last night at dinner (mom's gone visiting) and dd said that my mom has not lost her temper with her for a very long time. Dd also needs to step it up a little and not trash my mom's rooms with her toys and crafts as much. My mom gets most frustrated with dd's messes and since she never learned how to discipline, just punish, she doesn't handle it well. I've told her that rather than yelling at dd, like she did us, to tell dd that until she picks up her toys, she can't play out there any more. Clean up the mess first, then they can play. Works for me. If my mom would stop yelling, that would be 80% of the battle right there. Other than that, she actually does respect my parenting decisions... she's never tried to spank or punish the way she did us.

As for kicking my mom out... dh just won't do it. We put on a $$$ renovation/addition to our house for her. He's not going to pay rent as well. That is certainly something I would consider, but I'd have to go back to work full-time and I can't do that with dd's school being an hour away. It's also not a sacrifice that I will make for mom. Dh and I planned our lives for me to be a SAHM. I work 15 hours a week in a job I love at a library. I will not go back to the daily grind I hate and not get my summers and vacations off with dd just because of my mom. That is not something I will compromise on.

There is a subdivision for >55 in our area. It's quite nice, although they are all trailers. Definitely *not* your typical trailer park neighborhood... it has a HOA and everyone must keep up their places immaculately. We could, by sacrificing our savings habits, buy a place there, then the lot rental is only about $250/month. I've contemplated that, but dh nixed it last night. So mom moving out will not work.

My sisters (they are half-sisters) are not able to help. One is going through a nasty divorce and is barely making it on her own and the other (oldest) had a mid-life crisis when she hit 50 and took off. I'm not even sure where she is and haven't known for a couple of years. I do NOT have a good relationship with the her and the middle sister is too selfish to help out even with her time (as is evidenced by her comment last year when I asked her to take mom for 2 weeks).

So, in talking with dh and telling him some things mentioned here, he said that I'm just going to have to put my foot down with Mom. I can't MAKE my mom help out around here more. In truth, she doesn't make ANY messes in the main house because she's only in here to eat and use the bathroom. It would just be nice for her to help out that way, just because she appreciates that we're supporting her. I will talk to her about this.

Dh is from a country where you take care of the elderly no matter what. They literally do not have nursing homes... the families take care of their own. His sister took care of their mother for 10 years until her death. He takes this responsibility very seriously. He said we can sit down and talk to her and just explain that we need to set some boundaries (especially about the food), but that asking her to pay us is not something he's comfortable with. I respect that... the key is getting my mom to respect that as well.

The thing that I think *I* need to get over is feeling guilty when she pulls her passive-aggressive stunts. The comments like "I can't do anything right in your eyes", I need to follow up with something like "when it comes to the way you treat my daughter, it's my right to ask you to interact with her with respect" and just leave it at that. I'm not going to respond to her passive-aggressive behavior anymore. It's something I have to do... even if I have to go to a counselor to learn how to do it. I've not ruled that out!

Anyway, this has helped me think through this a lot more. I don't necessarily agree with everything everyone has said, but it's ALL good food for thought and I appreciate every comment. I'm open to any and all ideas on this, so if there are additional thoughts, please let me have them.


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## LauraLoo (Oct 9, 2006)

It seems to me that the first place to begin is to get your dh on the same page as you are. This isn't working for you, and eventually you will (if you aren't already) become resentful of his stance on this situation. This can't be good for your marriage.

Set aside time for you to discuss this with your dh. If you need to, I would suggest counseling to bring in an impartial 3rd party to help you sort this out. You have options, but unless you and dh agree there will continue to be friction in your family.

(No one has mentioned government subsidized apartments - many apartment complexes set aside units that qualify for this based on income, and meals on wheels - just other thoughts.)

ETA: I see that your dh wants you to put your foot down. That's great, but he needs to be a part of this, too. I wouldn't let this message come only from you, but from both of you. Present a unified front.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LauraLoo* 
It seems to me that the first place to begin is to get your dh on the same page as you are. This isn't working for you, and eventually you will (if you aren't already) become resentful of his stance on this situation. This can't be good for your marriage.

Set aside time for you to discuss this with your dh. If you need to, I would suggest counseling to bring in an impartial 3rd party to help you sort this out. You have options, but unless you and dh agree there will continue to be friction in your family.

(No one has mentioned government subsidized apartments - many apartment complexes set aside units that qualify for this based on income, and meals on wheels - just other thoughts.)

ETA: I see that your dh wants you to put your foot down. That's great, but he needs to be a part of this, too. I wouldn't let this message come only from you, but from both of you. Present a unified front.

Actually, I disagree with this. I've read a million times on these boards where people have had issues with in-laws and the advice is *always* that the spouse whose parent it is should handle the situation. I believe that to be so. I don't believe my dh should have to deal with this.

I love that my husband supports me in the changes I am trying to make. Our marriage is stronger than any other marriage I've ever seen. We are on the same page, but it's not his problem to deal with. He doesn't have the past with her. My mom knows that when I speak for the family, I'm speaking for all of us, dh and dd included. He's behind me 100%. Paying for my mom's own place is out of the question. I'm trying to find ways to deal with the situation to ease the tension.

Oh and I did look into subsidized housing. In our town, there is only 1 apartment complex that is subsidized and it's in a bad part of town with a lot of drug traffic. As much as I don't like the living situation now, I wouldn't send my mom to live alone in a dangerous part of town.

Thank you for the suggestions, though.


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## LauraLoo (Oct 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Actually, I disagree with this. I've read a million times on these boards where people have had issues with in-laws and the advice is *always* that the spouse whose parent it is should handle the situation. I believe that to be so. I don't believe my dh should have to deal with this.

Typically, I agree with this, too. It just seems to me that you are in a unique situation since your mother is living with all of you. I've know some passive aggressive mother/MIL's that look for a divide and conquer situation. It doesn't seem like this would apply to you.

And it's good that he is supporting you - you definitely need that. He may not have a past with your mother, but he does have a past and a future with you. You will work this through with your mom.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Actually, I disagree with this. I've read a million times on these boards where people have had issues with in-laws and the advice is *always* that the spouse whose parent it is should handle the situation. I believe that to be so. I don't believe my dh should have to deal with this.

I just wanted to comment on this. It's this kind of thinking (in the extreme) that really made a bad situation terrible in my case. If you all are planning to live as a family, your dh should feel comfortable talking to your mom about issues. If you are planning on physically and financially living like a family, your DH should be willing and able to 'deal' with your mom along side you. I don't mean that he should have to do the heavy lifting, but he should be able to speak up when she complains about the gas in the car, ect.

I know this is not what you mean, but I just wanted to comment on that piece of advice in the situation where you are living with the IL's.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Last post, I swear--

We are also from aculture where you can't just cast off your elderly. (even though my mil is not elderly, yet).

What got me some relief from the daily stress of living with her, was to just litterally set boundries like the following:

Monday, Wednesday and Friday, we have dinner alone.
Please be done with your kitchen stuff by noon.
You have to ask before digging up anything in teh yard.

Just basically told her what we expected. She threw a tantrum, but life became at least livable.


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

So sorry you are dealing with this! I remember your other post a week or so ago from the mutigenerational thread.

We also live with my mom, and even though we (DH my mom & I) all get along and it works, its still a very delicate balance at times, and quite a bit of work on my part.

I would say having my DH support my feelings, and just to be there for me and understand when something to do with my mother is hard for me to deal with, is the # 1 thing, and it really sounds like you have that kind of relationship with your DH, so that is one really great thing you have in your favor.

I would say the second most important thing is boundaries. Anything that consistently irritates you, has to be addressed, no matter how uncomfortable you are discussing it with your Mother. I know its hard, my mom is passive-aggressive, and very, very defensive, and has spent her life being the 'victim' in everything. It makes it so hard to sit with her and say, this has to stop, or we/you/I need to do this... but it has to be done. Sometimes feelings get hurt, or I get the silence treatment for a while, but in the long run its better.

I would really start there. I wouldnt address everything at once, because I know in my house, that would cause a nuclear meltdown. Sometimes things need to settle before you address something new, YK?

Once you get a bit of a handle on that, I would work on the money issues. In our household, everyone contributes what they can afford, so its proportionate. For us, this is fluid and changes. Like now, I am a SAHM with a 4 mo old, and my mom and DH work full time. I thus take over all the cooking and a good bit of the cleaning, so it feels 'fair' to everyone. She needs to contribute, bottom line. Maybe even charge rent for her part of the house, and use that money to cover the extra expenses she causes?

Good luck!! Keep us updated


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## annethcz (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *texmati* 
Last post, I swear--

We are also from aculture where you can't just cast off your elderly. (even though my mil is not elderly, yet).

What got me some relief from the daily stress of living with her, was to just litterally set boundries like the following:

Monday, Wednesday and Friday, we have dinner alone.
Please be done with your kitchen stuff by noon.
*You have to ask before digging up anything in teh yard.*

Just basically told her what we expected. She threw a tantrum, but life became at least livable.











I know it was frustrating for you, but that was one of the funniest threads I've EVER read in TAO.


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## PluggingAway (Dec 11, 2008)

Even though you asked for ideas and thoughts, I hesitate to post because words via the internet can seem so cold and calloused and unfeeling, and I so don't want to come across that way. So, please know that I hope to express my opinion with kindness and empathy when I say that the words that come to mind when I read your post are "victim", "enabler", and "codependant"--all roles you are portraying to your daughter. Find yourself a good therapist, get yourself well, and everything else should fall into place.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I appreciate your comments, Pluggingaway, but I do disagree. The fact that I tell her to cut her crap and we fight is what causes the tension. I certainly make no excuses for her and I don't consider myself a victim. I just want the situation to change. If people think I'm a victim because I'm not going to kick a 73 year old woman out of my house, then so be it, I guess. She would be dead in a week if she had no place to live. I'm sorry, but I couldn't do that to my worst enemy.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I would suggest counseling - just for you. The goal of this would be to learn how to set boundaries with your mom in a way that you can live with them.

It's very clear from your posts that you won't ask your mom to move out and that she's not going to change. So, the only thing that can change in this dynamic is how you communicate with your mom. You've got a lot of years of ingrained communication patterns to overcome. That's where I think an outside view and maybe some new tools would help.


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## PotreroHill (Apr 29, 2009)

SleeplessMommy;15276231
When a retired person has no assets said:


> I'd kick her out (asap
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

I understand taking care of basic necessities--a roof over her head and food. Why on earth are you paying for a car and cell phone for her? You don't have to give her everything she _*wants*_ just because you feel obligated to give her everything she _*needs.*_


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
I appreciate your comments, Pluggingaway, but I do disagree. The fact that I tell her to cut her crap and we fight is what causes the tension. I certainly make no excuses for her and I don't consider myself a victim. I just want the situation to change. If people think I'm a victim because I'm not going to kick a 73 year old woman out of my house, then so be it, I guess. She would be dead in a week if she had no place to live. I'm sorry, but I couldn't do that to my worst enemy.

People over 70 often get moodier and more difficult to live with. Maybe it's just from the discomforts of being that age. I think Texmati had some good suggestions about settings limits. Even some small changes like eating with just your DD and DH sometimes could make you feel better. Also cooking what you want, but maybe having alternatives in the refrigerator just like you would if you had a picky preschooler. I and my older DD lived with my father for over a decade. When he was 77 I was moving out of state and he moved in with my sister and her family. He was on a special diet so I just fixed him different food. My sister even had separate snacks available for him. My sister didn't put him into a nursing home until his health problems were so bad he needed around the clock medical monitoring. Now that he's gone we really appreciate the time we had with him. My older DD really does.


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## pranamama (Nov 6, 2002)

does your dd have friends that could invite her over a couple of times a month?, if so you could go on a date-night with your husband and have dd on a playdate at the same time.


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## Needle in the Hay (Sep 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
If people think I'm a victim because I'm not going to kick a 73 year old woman out of my house, then so be it, I guess. She would be dead in a week if she had no place to live. I'm sorry, but I couldn't do that to my worst enemy.

No, I'm sure no one thinks that. People think you are a victim because of all the stuff you wrote in your first post. All the things you are putting up with and giving into.

People here want you to put boundaries in place so you _won't_ be a victim. I would say that every single post in this thread is supporting you in this because the current situation is more than just annoying, it's very unhealthy.

That said, this is not an easy thing to do. I agree with PPs who suggested counseling, it doesn't have to be long-term, you could even try talking to a counselor online (be sure it's someone who has experience with both toxic family members and emotional abuse). I don't know if it would be sufficient, but it might help you begin.

I don't think anyone wants to point the finger at you and say "you made this situation, so deal with it" but instead wants to say that there is a lot you can do to change things by changing the way you deal with your mom. You can start small, but be consistent (as a PP said, Thursdays--or whatever day--can be stir fry or other meals your mom won't eat and she can fix herself something different). She is just going to have to deal with each small change as it comes and you can start getting your life back.

Oh and if there is any way to get at least a toilet and sink into her living space that would help too. It would be hard to insist on having your mornings completely to yourself if she can't go to the bathroom or get water to make coffee, etc. It might be expensive but it also might be a great investment for the overall happiness of your family.

I really, truly wish you the best. I have read a lot of your posts, you are a strong intelligent woman and a great mom to your DD. You can do this.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Completely agree with Needle in the Hay! No way should one person in the house be catered to. There are times when I make something that I know DH isn't crazy about, oh well! He can either eat it or fix a sandwich. Also, part of living together as a family is giving each other space and your mom isn't doing that for you. You need to take it.
"Mom, I need 30 minutes alone to wake up and have coffee", I'll give you a shout when I'm done. This is not unreasonable!


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Latte Mama* 
Completely agree with Needle in the Hay! No way should one person in the house be catered to. There are times when I make something that I know DH isn't crazy about, oh well! He can either eat it or fix a sandwich. Also, part of living together as a family is giving each other space and your mom isn't doing that for you. You need to take it.
"Mom, I need 30 minutes alone to wake up and have coffee", I'll give you a shout when I'm done. This is not unreasonable!

I am going to talk to her about having some more time to myself. I'm thinking of how to approach it. Part of the problem is she doesn't have any friends at all here to just go hang out with. She doesn't really have anything to "do" outside of the home.

In the mornings, though, I really can't tell her to not come in and use the bathroom. She takes a water pill for her high blood pressure. She usually comes in 3 times in the first 30 minutes alone. I'm not making excuses for her. I'm just telling it like it is. I can't tell her that she can't come in through my kitchen (where my computer is) to pee in the morning. It actually is quite unreasonable and it would be cruel because she'd have to use a bedpan. As much animosity as we have between us, I'm not going to ask her to use a bedpan in her bedroom rather than use the toilet so her presence doesn't bother me. That's something I think *I* need to get over.


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
The thing that I think *I* need to get over is feeling guilty when she pulls her passive-aggressive stunts. ... I'm not going to respond to her passive-aggressive behavior anymore. It's something I have to do... even if I have to go to a counselor to learn how to do it.

this is a situation where the right counselor can really help. you have a well-defined problem and the counselor can help you learn a new more positive emotional response to your mom's behavior. we are all trying to get to the same point, but the pro will be so much more effective


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## Jeannettea (Apr 2, 2006)

What about moving your computer to another, more private area of your home (for instance, your bedroom)? That way, she could come/go as often as she wants in the mornings, and you wouldn't be bothered. You could tell her you need to have a little time to yourself in the mornings and that's why you're doing it.

I'd bet that after living alone for so long herself, she would totally GET why you'd want time alone (maybe she also does and feels that she can't say anything when your dd clutters up your Mom's rooms b/c she does feel grateful that you've spent this money on her......)........I think it would be very hard to live with somebody and be dependent on them after being on your own for so long.........maybe that's why she's so frustrated and is then, in turn, taking that frustration out on you?

Just trying to put another guess on things here..........


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## Bellabaz (Feb 27, 2008)

Wow, I can't even imagine. I am sorry for the situation but like pp have said-its your home. So if you want to eat certain stuff, eat it. She knows where teh kitchen is if she doesn't like something. She also knows where the mcdonalds is from what you say. Have family night out once a week just the 3 of you. Does you mom have any hobbies that you can help her find a group to join to get her out of the hose sometimes? And I hear ya on the not asking for help thing, but its something you have to learn to do. Sometimes the other person thinks they are helping more by staying out of the way. They don't want to make you think they are taking over. Not necessarily teh case with your mom but another perspective to consider.


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
I am going to talk to her about having some more time to myself. I'm thinking of how to approach it. Part of the problem is she doesn't have any friends at all here to just go hang out with. She doesn't really have anything to "do" outside of the home.

In the mornings, though, I really can't tell her to not come in and use the bathroom. She takes a water pill for her high blood pressure. She usually comes in 3 times in the first 30 minutes alone. I'm not making excuses for her. I'm just telling it like it is. I can't tell her that she can't come in through my kitchen (where my computer is) to pee in the morning. It actually is quite unreasonable and it would be cruel because she'd have to use a bedpan. As much animosity as we have between us, I'm not going to ask her to use a bedpan in her bedroom rather than use the toilet so her presence doesn't bother me. That's something I think *I* need to get over.


Maybe you've tried this already, but I wonder if you could encourage her to sign up for a class or social club? This would expand her social group a bit more and give you a little time alone in your house.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jeannettea* 
What about moving your computer to another, more private area of your home (for instance, your bedroom)? That way, she could come/go as often as she wants in the mornings, and you wouldn't be bothered. You could tell her you need to have a little time to yourself in the mornings and that's why you're doing it.

I'd bet that after living alone for so long herself, she would totally GET why you'd want time alone (maybe she also does and feels that she can't say anything when your dd clutters up your Mom's rooms b/c she does feel grateful that you've spent this money on her......)........I think it would be very hard to live with somebody and be dependent on them after being on your own for so long.........maybe that's why she's so frustrated and is then, in turn, taking that frustration out on you?

Just trying to put another guess on things here..........

Dh and I are going to do some remodeling to move my computer sometime this summer. I think that's a great idea and yes we had thought of this. Right now, there is no place for it anywhere else.

As for counseling that others have mentioned... it's something I've considered before. I was hoping to get some free advice first.


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## tinuviel_k (Apr 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Needle in the Hay* 
No, I'm sure no one thinks that. People think you are a victim because of all the stuff you wrote in your first post. All the things you are putting up with and giving into.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I understand taking care of basic necessities--a roof over her head and food. Why on earth are you paying for a car and cell phone for her? You don't have to give her everything she _*wants*_ just because you feel obligated to give her everything she _*needs.*_

I agree with this. I don't think you are doing a bad thing by having your mother live with you, and you are certainly not being a victim in helping out your family who needs you. But it does sound to me like you are kinda letting her run all over you and take advantage instead of setting clear boundaries.

Quote:

She doesn't pay for anything... including *the car we bought for her, insurance, gasoline, food, utilities, her cell phone, etc. We pay it all.* She uses her SS to pay for her medicines, supplemental insurance, clothes, junk food (which I will not buy), and fast food (which we will not eat) for lunch almost every day. She blows a lot of her money on junk...
Why are you paying for her car, her insurance? Her cell phone? Her meals when she goes out to eat? There are luxuries, not necessities, and SHE should be paying for them all.
I would suggest sitting down and having a financial conversation. You should not be paying all of this money to support your mother's lifestyle, _especially when she has money of her own!_
I would give her a one or two month "warning."
"Mom, we can't keep paying all of your bills this way. It is hurting our family. We talked it over and starting in July we are going to need you to cover your own cell phone service, insurance, car payment, gas, and restaurant food.
If she doesn't like that...well, to be frank... Too Bad! What can she do about it besides throw a tantrum about it? A tantrum that you should not give in to, just like you wouldn't give in to a child's tantrum.

Quote:

She has come to EXPECT everything from us without feeling any gratitude for what we do for her.
Then it is really time to stop bending over backwards and doing things for her. With some people the more you give the more they take. It doesn't matter how much you give of yourself, your time, your money.... they come to believe that you OWE it to them. it doesn't sound like she is going to change.
It is one thing to buy your mom dinner out every so often. It is quite another that she invites herself out to eat with you, pouts if you want to go without her, dictates the restaurant every time, is rude and demanding at the restaurant, and then requires that you pay for her EVERY TIME.

You can't kick her out of the house, but you CAN say, "We're going out just the three of us. We can plan another evening to all go out together." Or, "We're really in the mood for Greek tonight. Come if you like, but that is what we are eating." And if she complains about it...." Mom, no one forced you to come with us." And, "I don't know if you realize that I have been paying for all of your food. I am sorry, but this is not working out financially for us. When we go out to eat together you are going to need to cover your own costs from now on."

I'm sorry you are dealing with this. It is simply horrible that you have been beyond generous and loving with your mother, only to have her throw it back in your face and demand more.


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

Wow, I admire your strength and kindness, OP! Lord knows I'd need a pair of 24hr on call counselors if I were to invite my mom to live with me.









As for your situation, alot of the advice here sounds workable. Boundaries, having her help more with her own expenses, helping her get into some sort of volunteer work or even a paid part time gig if she wants to continue buying crap (if she's able bodied enough to drive herself to a fast food joint, she's able bodied enough to do part time work imo!). She needs to understand that ANY money that you spend on her is directly taking from what you can give to your dd for activities, lessons, sports, college fund or whatever.

I grew up in the USA (midwest) and its quite normal to have only 1 or 2 generations in the home. Then, I moved to Miami (very high South American pop/culture) where many many Latin families (99% of my friends there!) had at least 3 generations in the home, some had 4. I actually have always enjoyed talking with the grandparent-aged generations & its neat to see such close relationships btwn my friends & their grandparents. Its more unusual to live with our elderly parents here in the US than it is to ship 'em off to an "old folks home", but there is a great opportunity for more meaningful relationships btwn gkids/gparents in your extended family living situation, IF you can lay some boundaries that your whole family (including your mom) are able to follow. Its great that your dd knows that if g'ma starts talking rudely to her, she can leave the room w/o punishment.

I'm sorry that your mom is not more grateful and respectful, you deserve to be treated better for all that you're sacrificing to help her. The comfort that you're trying to provide your mother despite having a not so comfy childhood says so much (positive!) about your character. I wish you courage to find that delicate balance between her wants and her needs very soon. You ARE doing a good thing, don't get discouraged, just keep firm about what you need from her in order to give her what she truly needs.

Give and take. NOT give and suffer & then give more to try to have peace but suffer anyway, etc, yk?


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## Quinalla (May 23, 2005)

I think your best bet is to start the process of changing your responses to your Mom. It won't happen overnight, it will take awhile, but as others have said you can go out with just the 3 of you or go to the restaurants you want to go to or make the food you want to. And yes, your Mom will likely complain and gripe and all the rest, but you can slowly start learning to let it not get to you. Again, I definitely understand that it will take time to get there, but you can't make your Mom change. Hopefully she will, but all you can do is change yourself. So yeah, I would figure out the things that are bugging you the most and get started. It will suck at first probably, but it will be better in the long run and your Mom might even come around a bit too if you are lucky!

And yeah, her moving out would be great I'm sure, but it doesn't sound feasible.


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## Qbear'smama (Jul 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Joyster* 
We need to start a support group for daughters with challenging moms that we love, but wouldn't mind dropping a water balloon on sometimes.









Oh I would join that group, my mother moved in in September and it has been challenging, to say the least!!!

OP, I empathize 100% and wish you good luck with the boundary-setting.







Our mothers are quite similar, but we don't pay for her expenses like her car, etc, we could not afford to do so and I don't think I would, it would make me way too bitter. Sometimes I feel guilty that we do things/eat things etc. without my mother, but then I think about the fact that she is my mother, not my child and that I am not responsible for feeding her, taking her everywhere along with me, etc. I have one little person that I want to cater to and I refuse to make it one little one and one old one!! My mother still works and tried to suck me into waking her for work (she works different shifts) but I pretty much refused. No one wakes _me_ for work, be a grown-up, I am not your snooze alarm! Sounds mean but if I agreed, I _would_ be the snooze alarm, she would say, "give me another 10 minutes" for an hour. I encourage autonomy as much as possible in her, she looooooves depending on people and if I didn't draw the line, believe me DH and I would be doing her bidding. But the price for that is she sees me as a b-word. Oh well.


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
... I was hoping to get some free advice first.









free advice:

when you go out to dinner, and leave her a frozen pizza and she complains.
say to yourself: "well, the mercedes did not make her happy, so it is nothing personal, of course the frozen dinner won't either."

when you make a healthy dinner at home and she complains:
"well, free housing didn't make her happy, so it is nothing personal, a healthy dinner won't either."


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SleeplessMommy* 
free advice:

when you go out to dinner, and leave her a frozen pizza and she complains.
say to yourself: "well, the mercedes did not make her happy, so it is nothing personal, of course the frozen dinner won't either."

when you make a healthy dinner at home and she complains:
"well, free housing didn't make her happy, so it is nothing personal, a healthy dinner won't either."


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

My mom lives with us too and it's been challenging lately. Mostly having to do with the kids and her interactions with them.

Though I am ETERNALLY GRATEFUL for mornings like today where all the rest of us slept and she (naturally an early riser) got DS up and off to school before any of the rest of us were up!









I *love* things like that don't get me wrong. It's like you said, the yelling. My mom *has* threatened to spank my kids. (but then so have I, and I'm not saying that is right. It's just like it's a license then if *i* have done it...even though I am moving away from it.)

The yelling makes me CRAZY I would LOVE a day without it!

But I am much in the same situation as you OP, my mom makes only about $800/mo. to live on. She can't survive on that. Nor do we want her to. And since my dad passed away, we are literally ALL SHE HAS.

My mom *does* contribute though.

As far as the food, here, DH cooks whatever he wants to make. My mom will *usually* try his/our food. Sometimes we make more 'traditional American' meals too.
If she doesn't like it, she keeps bologna (yuck! but she likes it) around and makes herself a sandwich.
She does not expect us to ONLY make food she likes.

My mom will actually usually have to be 'talked into' our outings, so we get a few of those alone too. (though we typically don't go to restaurants anymore, we don't expect her to babysit so we can, and we don't like paying for food the kids may or may not eat...)

The thing that REALLY gets to me is I think she would totally benefit from some time away from all of us--like a regular outing with ppl her age. She paid to join the Sr. Center last year, but she went to TWO activities that I can recall--the "new members" day, and the Christmas dinner.
I intentionally read the newsletter and point out things i think she might like--







this might sound funny for a 70/yr old woman but I actually suggested the Wii bowling leagues! She used to bowl, and she used to love playing my Nintendo. (we don't currently own a game system, I am waiting to bring that into my house till a child asks for it.)

She has yet to take me up on the idea....but she *did* go to the MS support group meeting I found for her on Google.....so I don't know, maybe there is hope yet that she will start to do some things? I think it would really help her, I know it helps ME to get out.

Oh and also until just recently we didn't have a 3rd vehicle, so I think that was a big part of the issue, even though I didn't *mind* I think she didn't want to leave me without my van.

Here's hoping ALL our situations get better.







(and I would TOTALLY start by just cooking whatever it is you happen to be wanting to cook. She can eat it, or not, and she can buy her own alternatives that she prefers. This is what my mom does--like I said, she likes her bologna sandwiches. We don't eat pork.







)


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Please link me to this multigenerational thread that was mentioned. I tried a search and couldn't find one.......at least nothing with recent posts!


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Just another question... About not feeling appreciated. Have you talked to your mom about that? What does she say?


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Oh my goodness, I can't imagine!







It's funny, because from the impression I've gotten from your online persona, I really can't picture you putting up with that kind of stuff in your own home!

Some other posters have had really good suggestions about laying down firm boundaries and just not reacting or responding when she throws a fit. Tell her which days of the week you'll be having dinner with just your DH and DD, tell her which of her expenses she'll be expected to cover, etc. The worst thing she can do is pout and be angry -- oh well. Just like with a rebellious teen, her choices are to put up with your house rules or find another place to live so that she can set all the rules herself.


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

Any updates, Velo? Have you spoken with your mom or made any changes? How did it go?


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peaceful_mama* 
Please link me to this multigenerational thread that was mentioned. I tried a search and couldn't find one.......at least nothing with recent posts!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1036647


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## 3 little birds (Nov 19, 2001)

Hugs to you mama! Like the other posters I think boundaries are the biggest issue here and initially, one of the hardest things to establish. I was terrible at boundaries and still struggle sometimes, but have really learned how to set them well most of the time. The great thing about setting boundaries is that once you do it-it gets easier and easier and very, very satisfying. (Learning NO is very empowering).
For instance, if you tell your mom you and your family are going out for Greek and she gets upset, you will most likely actually feel better if you tell her that you are sorry that she doesn't want to come and that you will see her later, and then LEAVE. This is because you know it is wrong for her to manipulate you into going to a resturaunt of her choice and not ever allowing your family a private dinner. She may be upset because she realizes that her "control" is slipping. But she will be okay.

I have also noticed that many times the most toxic family members are the ones who need their families the most-physically and emotionally. That is why they are always manipulating, guilting, etc. Your mom knows how much she needs you and that you really hold all of the cards. If you set the boundaries she will fall in line-or she will find somewhere else to live.

Also, if your mom can spend money at walmart, she can pay her own cell bill, imo. She can also buy food to keep on hand when you prepare something that she doesn't like. (My uncle gets about 800 SS and lives on his own in a studio apartment. He uses public transportation and enjoys no luxuries. He would LOVE a setup like your mom has.)

Best wishes on your journey!


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

We've been talking. I'll update when I have more time. She *is* being more receptive this time.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Oh my goodness, I can't imagine!







It's funny, because from the impression I've gotten from your online persona, I really can't picture you putting up with that kind of stuff in your own home!
.

Yeah, I was surprised by you posting this, too, velo!


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Well, she is my mom. I have a strong sense of family. My grandfather lived with us, so I guess I grew up with a bit of skewed sense that it's natural to have parents move in. I've probably been too lenient with the situation out of a sense of obligation.

Anyway, we talked some today. She was actually receptive to what I had to say. She said that she's been wanting to go to the Senior Citizens center to use some of their equipment. She has peripheral artery disease and had to have a bypass surgery about 20 years ago. The doctors have said that some leg exercises would help to keep her mobile. She went today and seems to have enjoyed herself. I was proud of her to take that step. She's more introverted than I am. She said that she'd like to go a couple times a week - that would give me some time to just have MY home to myself. I hope she will continue this.

We talked about the eating out. She even mentioned that dh and I never get to go out by ourselves and that she should maybe take dd for the evening once a month so the two of us can go out alone. This really surprised me. This is probably the most generous gesture she's made in 4 years.

However when I told her that the dish I was making tonight was a rice-based casserole that dh loves, that I hadn't fixed in a year because my mom *doesn't like RICE* (how can someone NOT like rice?!?!), her reply was, "Oh. Well, I'm not hungry anyway." Went on my merry way making dinner and the next time I went out to her rooms to check on dd in the side yard, she was eating some of her junk food. THAT'S the problem when I do this... cook what we like that she doesn't. It seems to me to be a passive aggressive way of getting back at me for doing so. It's like "Well, if you won't cook what I like, watch me eat crap and kill myself a little more". But guess what, dh was so happy with dinner tonight that I didn't really give a crap what she did. I'm not going to worry about it anymore. She's an adult and can eat what she wants... even if it is Ding Dongs for dinner.









One thing about the car I wanted to clarify. My mom picks up our dd from school the majority of the time. This is a huge help to us. We couldn't be a 2 car family. What she said was that she felt most comfortable driving the Mercedes. (Of course... they drive beautifully.) We don't make payments. We bought the car, we own it, we can sell it when we want to. She just drives it. When my precious cargo, dd, is with her, I want her in a car that is safe and my mom feels safe in. I just wish mom would realize that she's driving the nicest car we have and appreciate that fact.

We're not going to ask her for any money toward the utilities, etc. Honestly, we can afford it. Yes, technically we could save more money, but we do fine. We don't have debt, carry a mortgage by choice, have adequate savings, investments, etc. And technically we could cash in some investments to buy her a place, but we've already built onto our house for her. It's not that we're in dire need of her helping... it's about feeling appreciated. This is something dh feels strongly about. Where he is from, everyone takes care of their family and this would just not fly with him. I respect that. The amount she could give us would just not make a difference. It would be a gesture, only. If she would just say thank you once in a while, it would be worth a hell of a lot more than she could possibly contribute.

On a positive note, she said she'd try harder in general, try to be more patient with dd and I told her that if I hear her or if dd tells me that she's raising her voice or threatening her (for example a few weeks ago she threatened to throw away some of dd's toys because she hadn't picked them up







) that dd would not be allowed out there with her. I reminded her what Gentle Disciple is (IME) and that threatening is not part of the package. I told her that if she asks dd to do something and she won't, then to come get me if she can't handle it gently. My mom actually enjoys the time with dd, so I hope it's incentive for her to try to be more patient.

I think those were the highlights of the conversation. I think we progressed some today. It's a matter of time. We'll see what happens. Gotta get the kiddo to bed.


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## E.V. Lowi (Sep 16, 2005)

{{HUGS}} Just want to say that I am so impressed with you and your dh- what wonderful human beans you both are!







It's just so rare to see people willing to put themselves out like that. Good luck with everything!


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

It sounds like you guys had a really good conversation -- that's great!

It really is wonderful that you and your DH have such a strong sense of respect and familial responsibility. It's just that it's okay to expect/demand the same respect in return as well.


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

That sounds like an excellent conversation - good for you! I'm glad it went so well, and I hope you two are able to keep the lines of communication open like that.

I think the approach you took to your mom eating junk food for dinner was perfect. It's OK (but so, so hard) to say 'I don't like her choice, but it is her choice and I'll let it be.'


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Her eating crap isn't passive-aggressive. She's a grown up and that's just what she has chosen to eat--perhaps what she really likes to eat!


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

I think you are being a doormat and she is taking advantage of you so often, and in such a wild way, that you don't even realize the extent of it. Regardless of her skill set, you do not need to feed her all meals, take her out on all exercusions (including dinners out), or spend a lot of time with her.

Consider the following:

Planning a menu a week in advance and post it on the refrigerator. Perhaps post it next to the family schedule, made up or not. Everyone who is going to be there for a meal signs up. If she doesn't like what is being served, she can eat elsewhere. Make a point of making your family a meal that she doesn't like at least one night a week. It isn't personal, you aren't trying to exclude her, but yes, your immediate family and HUSBAND like these foods and that is really very reasonable. Don't engage.

Choose one night a week, maybe on the weekend, when you do something with your husband and child only. Make it routine. Make it not personal. Do it. It should not be the dinner night. Don't engage.

Restaurant dining is a treat. If she would like to join you, that is terrific, but if you are treating, you will choose the restaurant. If she is treating she will choose the restaurant.

I think you've made real mistake by not asking her to contribute to household expenses. It doesn't have to be proportionate to her actual expenses, just her income. She *can* afford to pay for certain bills (utilities?) or something for food or something for rent.

How many sibilings do you have and why are they not participating in her support? Really, if they can, I think they should help subsidize the expense of living with you. If they can't than they should be open to extended visits or other support. Consider carefully why they are not. Do they think she is selfish and doesn't deserve it? Do they think that they have no obligation because of her parenting (pretty reasonable to me). Have you asked and how?

I think you might find it helpful to determine what it really costs you (financially, emotionally, your relationships with kids and husband) to live with your mom. Perhaps a better option is to subsidize another living situation. $1000 in a senior living compex might be a great option for you gives you a lot of freedom.

Finally, is she happy with you or is she just unhappy?


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

I don't really think people were suggesting that she contribute financially (utilities or whatever) because you can't afford it. It isn't really about your money so much as hers. She needs to value her living situation and it doesn't sound like she does. Making a financial contribution according to her means is a good way to do so. You can keep the money or stash it in a savings account for her or donate it to charity. The point is that she wastes a lot of money AND lives for free AND doesn't really seem to appreciate it.


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

Are you living with MY grandmother? She's the same exact way, only she doesn't live with my mom, but what you are talking about is what she's like.

Senior low income apartment like now. I know she's your mom, but honestly she will probably go right back to her old ways once things simmer down again, JMO.


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## p.s (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 

As for counseling that others have mentioned... it's something I've considered before. I was hoping to get some free advice first.









Not free advice, but I'll be happy to start with the "questions"...

the situation you describe is truly extra-ordinary....
- why do you do it? B/c you love your mom is not a good enough answer.... alot of people love their parents but would not subject themselves to this situation.

- I know you have a good mind for figuring out the pros and cons from your financial posts... so what are the pros of your mom living with you? I am sure those "pros" have to be huge, but you have not yet voiced them. You don't need to OL, but so far what you posted does not make "sense." Once you work those out, then the negatives of your situation will be easier to tolerate. Once you explained the Mercedes situation, it makes sense. We personally would also buy the safest car we could afford if my mom was picking up my kids (although my parents are not in the same situation). It also sounds like most of the mileage accrued on the car is for the purpose of picking up your dd.

- why do your half sibs not help? *Really.* Why. do. they. not. help?
Why are you doing so much, but they nothing? Is there something in your (all) collective past? Things to explore: perceptions, realities, guilts, preferential treatments.
Why do you feel so obligated? But they feel _absolutely_ nothing? This is very interesting.


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