# Grandmothers & babysitting



## rapunnett (Feb 8, 2002)

I need some help! My mother has been indirectly hounding me to babysit my close to four year old son since he was born. So far we have been able to avoid it. One of the reasons is becasue simply, we don't go out alot and when we do or when we need a sitter we have friends our age that are able to do so very easily. They have a van, kids of their own to play with our son etc. My mother does not drive, she is stone deaf in one ear and not too physically agile ie getting down onto and up form the floor. Whenever she has picked up my son I have to turn the other way for fear of seeing her drop him. Thanks goodness he's getting too heavy for her and she, I think, realizes it.
My delema is that I feel bad she hasn't watched him, but at the same time I am really quite nervous about allowing her to watch him. My husband flat out refuses to entertain the notion putting me in a hard place. But I see his point and agree but still feel guilty. She has asked me if she can take him to the Science Center over March Break with her friend and her two twin boys. I came right out and told her that I didn't think my husband would feel comfortable with it and I did not think it was good idea to go there as it would be a zoo. She asked if I thought she would loose him and I said yes and/or not hear him say something to her. She said there would be others there that would hear him if she did not. The problem is I don't trust or like these people either.
Sorry for such a long post (seems to be my trademark) but I need some pointers on how to not hurt her feelings but be clear she won't likely be babysitting (I am also due with babe number 2 in late May)
Thanks alot








A perplexed and confused Rose Ann


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## Jeanne (Jan 20, 2002)

Would it be possible to focus on other types of visits?

My parents have a very different view on how to "sit" their many grandchildren. Candy, golf clubs, electric outdoor ride-on toys, cartoons, sips of coffee, whatever they want.. and the kids absolutely adore them. You'd be amazed at what a 3 and 4 year old will or will not do given the confidence and choice. They raised 5 kids so I just turn my head, I don't want to be so rigid that there's no fun.

Your mom sounds like she means well, maybe there's another way to give her alone time with your son (like while you take a run to the grocery store?).

Good luck.


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2002)

pretty much what jeanne said

try and come up with a babysit time that feels more comfortable

even if its a case of she spends the afternoon with him and you clean out the closet or repack the baby clothes or leisurely do the grocery shopping

my mil started in with wanting to babysit before my dd was six weeks old. i do not trust her at all! not because of endangering rather she has zero respect/recognition of the grandparent boundaries/my authority

she's hellbent on taking dd out on her boat too and wants to use the lifejacket from when the nephews were small (they are now 11 and 13).... i feel bad that i'm going to keep them from having a strong relationship but i just can not relax when she's in charge (except for when she's babysat at our home and there was no driving involved) control issue - what issue?? LOLLLL


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## laurajean (Nov 19, 2001)

rapunnett,

Just be honest with her. Let her know that you love her etc. But, there is no need for her to babysit and you just do not feel comfortable.

I don't get the whole "I want to be alone with my grandchild thing." Sure, grandparents can be a wonderful part of a child's life. Why do they feel that the parent has to be out of the picture to build a relationship?

~Laura


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## Serena (Nov 24, 2001)

I have a slightly different view and I hope you won't feel like I'm questioning your judgment but... couldn't you and dh just get over it and let the poor woman babysit for ds? It sounds like she loves him a lot and would like to form a relationship without you hovering. Grandmothers play a very important role in a child's life. She won't be around forever, and when she's gone it might make you feel better knowing that you allowed her to do this thing that was so important to her and made her so happy.

She raised you and you're still alive, not wandering around lost in a zoo or museum, right? She's your mom. Give her this respect and let her babysit is my vote.


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

I agree with Serena. My heart was pounding for this poor woman! What is everyone so afraid of? I don't get it. Both grandmas and one grandpa have taken care of my dd alone for an hour or two. It IS important. It's such a special relationship for both the child and the grandparent. Things happen when the mother is right next to the child. You can't live in fear and spoil everyone's happiness.


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## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

My grandmother was in her late 60's when I was your child's age. She obvously didn't lift me much. Some of my best memories are of spending time at her house with her. I loved her dearly and wish she were still here (she passed away two years ago.)

I understand your fear, I have those same fears with my parents and inlaws, but mine are mostly that they will lose the kids. My mom and stepdad had been begging to let our three year old stay at there house two hours away overnight since he was a newborn. Breastfeeding was a good excuse, but when he weaned, we were in a dilema. My step sister's daughter is five days older than my ds, and they have left their daughter with them for days in a row since she was just a few months old. I looked like the overprotective wench. Dh and I finally gave in and let him stay overnight this past October. It was from about 5:00pm until 12:00 in the afternoon the next day. My neice was also there, so we thought that might make it easier on him.

He seemed to have a great time, but when Thanksgiving rolled around and we told ds that we were going to my dh's parents house my ds began to cry and said that he didn't want to go. I was confused because they live on a farm and he loves going there. When I asked him why he didn't want to go he asked if I was going, and if his dad was going, and if his little brother was going. Then he asked if we were going to leave him there. I felt awful. He had been telling us how much he had missed us when he stayed at my moms, but it was in a positive way, so I was surprised that he had these feelings. We told him that he didn't have to stay at anyone's house without us unless he wanted to.

We have left him with them at our house for a few hours at a time, and he enjoys it. I say give it a try for an hour or two on your home turf and see how it goes. I hope your son has the relationship with your mother that I had with my grandmother, because it is truly magical.


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## m&m (Nov 20, 2001)

I just want to say that being cautios is not out of line in your case. The granparent does have some physical ailments - she aint what she used to be - as the song goes.

My dd great grandparents are aware of their capabilities or lack of in some areas and have been very cautios about spending time with my dds. I did get them to play with my almost 3 dd for 30 min while I took dd2 to the dr a few blocks away. They were so excited to have that opportunity.

Perhaps the elderly forget that they cannot do all the things they used to. Maybe they just want a chance. They may not be around forever after all.

Do what feels right for you, maybe supervised playdates is the way to go.

Maybe explaining that the world is alot crazier, with more hazards out there than when they parented.


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## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

My mother and mil would flip out if she heard you referring to our children's grandparents as "the elderly."







They are both in their mid-50's and in great shape. It is their judgement when it comes to parenting issues that always worries me, not their physical condition.

Sorry, I just had to give you a hard time about the "elderly" comment.


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## PB's Mom (Nov 20, 2001)

I say go with your gut feeling. I don't like leaving my DS with DH most of the time. My DH's idea of "watching" him is to give him a toy and leave the room for 30 minutes or so. There are so many things that can happen to a little one. He should put DS in the room with him, or at least check on him every few minutes.

I remember hearing a story about a mom leaving her 2 year old with her husband. Her husband had some friends over, and he didn't keep a close eye on the child. The child was found drown in their hot tub. It was the father's irresponsibility.....not just some bad luck.

I feel it is my responsibility to make sure my DS is safe....even if that means I don't leave him with my own husband alone. Now, if I had a responsible husband, I woudn't think twice about it.

We built a house next door to my parents, and a house for my MIL in our back yard, because I want my son to grow up with his grandparents. However, I don't feel comfortable leaving my son with my mother for very long, because she doesn't respect my parenting style, and she has some mental problems. I will take my son over there for an hour or so, and he does fine, but I just don't trust her enough to leave him there for any longer. My father is irresponsible in the way that he leaves the gate to the pool open, and also leaves goffer poison pellets out in the yard. My MIL is great with DS, but I don't agree with her style of parenting, so I generally don't leave DS with her for very long either.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it is ultimately MY responsiblility to protect my son, and if something happened because I made a poor choice, I would feel horrible. My DS spends time with everyone he loves, but on MY TERMS. I've always just tried to come up with gentle "excuses", and I still have to figure out how to tell them nicely that they don't get to watch DS whenever they want and for how long. My mom usually tries to talk me into doing it her way, but I don't give in. He is MY son, not her son, and I have a right to parent the way I want, not the way she wants.

Sorry this is so long......I don't think I'm capable of a short post!!!


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## rapunnett (Feb 8, 2002)

Thank you for your replys.
Unfortunately I don't think myself and my husband can "just get over it" and let my mother bbsit. My son is my responsibility ultimately and if anything ever did happen it would be ultimiately my doing whether at my mother's hand or mine. Safety of my son is my number one priority. I relaize she won't be around forever and that the relationship between grandparent and grandchild is very special but...he also has to be around, literally to develop that relationship. He also has to be able to feel comfortable with her ie, not get hurt in her care , to want to continue to spend time with her.
I think more realistic to my situation , and many others who also posted, is to have some arranged short times for her to sit. like when I go drop something off at a friends or do a quick grocery shopping.
Yes she raised myself and my brother with no apparent colosal catastrophies, although she did loose me for 1.5 hs at a huge mall on a Saturday. Perhaps these old thoughts of looking at her gold shoes she just bought thinking that this was the last I would ever see of her, have traumatized me to thinking she could do the same thing to my son???? Just a guess.
Anyways, she is not the same person she was then, both physically and mentally, and simply put I don't feel comfortable with her watching him. I'm sorry if this sounds more like a defensive post but this is what I feel.
I really appreciate your suggestions and will take them to heart and give it my best shot while trying to explain to her that I do love her but feel uncomfortable for these reasons.
Thanks again, and I hope I haven't offended anyone.
Rose Ann


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## laurajean (Nov 19, 2001)

rapunnett,

I could not agree more









Follow your heart and instincts as a mama









There are valid reasons why you feel this way. I have never left my ds with my mother because I do not trust her. And, I have only left my ds with my mil once (when he was 11.5 mos old). I am lucky because I have a sister who is for all practical purposes my son's second mama - if only she lactated. And, I have friends who parent the way I do. And, if I needed a sitter I would ask them for help. Because I have these other people whom I trust implicitly to make good decisions re: my ds - why would I leave him with people I had second thoughts about?

It seems to me that you have put a great amount of thought into this decision. And, you know what is best for your child.

~Laura


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## m&m (Nov 20, 2001)

Beth,

Just a quick comment to clear up the use of "elderly". Around here we use that for anyone over 65 - kinda like seniors, or elders. Also, I was referred to MY grandparents who are in their 80's and 90's. My dd's grandparents are only in their 50's and 60's too.

It is sad when we have to see our parents and grandparents in a new light - that they are not physically the same any more. It does happen at some point though. My 95 year old grandmother has just started showing those signs of senility. She has even called around asking for her mother who died 40 years ago. So sad.

But it is a parent's responsibility to make sure their kids are safe - even if it means supervising other family members with them.


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## Grantsmommy (Jan 18, 2002)

I understand your situation. My grandmother (ds' great-gram) is 79 and in poor health physically. However, she is aware of her limitations and has only made vague references to wishing she could help out with his care. My solution is a weekly or biweekly "Date with Great Grandma." She lives about 40 minutes from us, so we drive up and take her out to lunch. She gets to hold him (he is 20 mths) and watch him play. She also feels great when she can give him some green beans or mashed potatoes off her own plate. These little things really brighten her day. We always go back to her house for a few minutes before leaving so ds can play with her music boxes. I feel wonderful knowing that he is developing a bond with his great gram and also knowing that the visit has made her whole week! The whole trip takes about 3-4 hours and really makes a difference. Maybe you could do something like that?


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## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

I agree that you should follow your instincts but try to work out a compromise (which it sounds like you are doing).

My mother loves to babysit my 8yo ds but she is in her 50's too so I have no safety excuse. She even wants him on weekdays because we homeschool-- though she won't make him do any work. I just resist because I think she uses him as a lifesupport system for herself and it isn't healthy. She is overindulgent and trys to buy his love with toys and junk. She will break every rule I set unless I tell her that he can't come see her if she does something. She acts like he is her child like taking him to the dentist or to get a haircut without asking me. She is planning on buying a PS2 for him to play at her house. He is not there that much. That just makes me sick. He doesn't need a PS2 in a house where he has no limits. They already let him watch 24 hour cartoons. My dad has to watch his shows on the little tv so ds can watch cartoons. It isn't healthy and I wish I had excuses to keep them apart more than I do.

On the other hand, my MIL won't watch ds even for me to run to the store. I just found this out. She has a stepson the same age as ds, and they were up to help us move. I left him at home with them a couple of times to do stuff for the move (like run get boxes or tape or dinner) and she started saying stuff like, "I am not a babysitter." Huh? Is an 8yo that much trouble especially when he has a playmate? I mean, our house is in the country and they just run around outside. I think she was refusing on principle. I just started taking him everywhere with me. I don't mind but he wanted to stay and play with ss. Oh, well. There are 2 sides to every coin.


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## Teresa (Jan 25, 2002)

If she was not a relative would you feel comfortable leaving a child in her care? I know that I will probably never allow certain relatives of mine to "watch" our children. The fact is that if they were neighbors or acquaintances I wouldn't even begin to consider it because I don't trust their judgement. My own mother has excellent judgement and an AP approach, but she has very politely told my brother that she just cannot watch both of his children by herself. As she so lovingly explains, "They're both so exuberant!" She makes sure my father is also going to be around if they need both children watched.
Last year a grandmother had a stroke while caring for a baby. Unfortunately she dropped the baby on a soft surface when she fell and they both died. It was a horrible thing. She was very upset by it even though she herself is one of those young grandparents. She says she just feels that she can't safely watch those two particular children at the same time (they're like 2 ping-pong balls!)
Can you set up a "Gramma Day?"
My mother comes once a week to spend the day. They bake, sew, make paper dolls, read books she found at the library, play in the yard/sand-box, etc.
She has a great visit with my daughter, I am right here if needed, and I also manage to get some of my things done while she's here.
In 3 1/2 years I've only left my daughter once with anyone but my husband, and she stayed here with Gramma for the hour-and-a-half that we had to be gone, although often we would have Gramma come along with us to help out. Maybe you could try that too?
Good luck!


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## wimbini (Nov 22, 2001)

I am always suspicious about why these grandmas are begging to take care of our kids without their mothers there. Why is that so essential to them? I will never allow either one of my daughter's grandmas to baby sit her without me there, period. I would consider allowing my MIL to sit if there were a life or death emergency of some kind, but never my own mother.

Yes, this hurts their feelings, etc., but that is there problem. I am chanting to myself all the time now... my dd does not exist to meet other people's emotional needs (mine included). We are there to meet her needs. This is so obvious, yet so hard to honor with the pressure being put on her.

They make it so hard to say no... but say no we must. We must protect our babies.

You are doing the right thing, and you have nothing to feel guilty about.

I finally told my mother as gently as I could that I did not feel comfortable leaving her alone with my child. She was hurt, furious, sobbed and sobbed, etc. She wanted to know why, and I told her that, too. She was very angry, called me a liar, etc. But what I said was true.. she gets angry and impatient at little kids all the time for just being little kids. She also took insane risks with her own children when they were infants. I cannot leave my dd with her, even if that hurts my mother's feelings.


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## sarahwebb (Feb 12, 2002)

Just wanted to let you all know that I empathize with the complicated issues of which family members you will and won't allow to sit with your children. With my first child on the way, I'm already thinking about how we'll handle these issues. My mother was a poor parent both emotionally and as far as safety concerns go.

Now that our first (which will be her only grandchild) is on the way, friends and family are all talking about how grandparenthood will transform her. I don't want to inhibit her opportunities for transformation...she sure could use it, but ensuring my child's safety will be my first priority. I can't imagine leaving my child alone with a woman who is alcoholic, emotionally manipulative, and likely to show no respect for my parenting choices.

Dh and I both agree that as long as she is able, MIL will be a safe person to care for our child, but the environment is not optimal--too much tv and role models (MIL and brother in law) that don't reflect our values. We feel reassurred knowing that she is there, but probably won't rely on her heavily.

Thanks for the opportunity to share and the reassurrance that I'm in good company.

Peace,
Sarah


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## kezia (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by wimbini_
*I am always suspicious about why these grandmas are begging to take care of our kids without their mothers there. Why is that so essential to them? ...

Yes, this hurts their feelings, etc., but that is there problem. I am chanting to myself all the time now... my dd does not exist to meet other people's emotional needs (mine included). We are there to meet her needs. This is so obvious, yet so hard to honor with the pressure being put on her.

*
Amen sister! I have never understood this burning need to get mom out of the picture. What is is they want to do? I can sort of understand wanting to get a little space from a watchful mommy, but why does that have to involve mom leaving the house for a set length of time?

My MIL has been not-so-subtly hinting that she wants to keep ds overnight ever since he was born, and it AIN'T gonna happen--ever. I was totally uncomfortable leaving her alone with him for even a second until he was about 10 mos old. At that point, I would sometimes let her "babysit" for a few minutes while I got supper going or something. I always stayed within earshot. Now that he's almost 2, she has been begging us to let her keep him while we go out to dinner or something, but I would not be able to enjoy myself, and ds starts looking for me after 10 or 15 minutes (which is one reason I only leave him when I really need to), so what's the point? The only person who would benefit from the situation would be MIL.

To those of you who said "get over it"--do you really think that grandma's feelings/needs should override a mother's instinct to protect her child? Why can't a grandparent bond with a child unless the parents leave the building? And why should the title of "Grandmother" entitle someone to babysitting rights? I agree with those who said that if you wouldn't leave your child alone with her if she WASN'T the grandma, then the fact that she IS the grandma shouldn't change your decision.

To rapunnet--I think you're doing the right thing, and you shouldn't feel bad about it. If you want you child to have a relationship with your mom, there are plenty of ways for her to have special time without leaving her unsupervised. Good luck!


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## Serena (Nov 24, 2001)

????







:

You honestly can't understand why grandmothers would want to spend time alone with their grandchildren? I don't think the point is to "get mom out of the picture"; Closer bonding _does_ happen when you can spend time one-on-one with someone. What is so hard to understand about that??? In my perspective, it's a real (s)mother who can't let anyone but her have any alone time with her child. Children thrive when lots of people love them, when they can form unique, special relationships with family and friends. Some of my most precious memories are of wonderful afternoons and weekends spent _alone_ with my Grandmom. The point wasn't to get mom out of the picture: I had mom plenty of the time.

Why hoard and covet your own children? It seems a bit selfish to me.


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## Teresa (Jan 25, 2002)

<<Some of my most precious memories are of wonderful afternoons and weekends spent alone with my Grandmom.>>

Then consider yourself very fortunate!

My one grandmother died before I was two, and my grandfather was a terribly unpleasant person who thought it was funny to frighten us and make us cry! Fortunately my mother kept our visits with him few and far apart and never ever left us there.
I did have a "Granny" who was actually an elderly friend of my parents and I spent a great deal of time with her--more often with my mother present (she always came with us grocery shopping, on errands, and just visiting and helping out) and I still miss her terribly 20+ years later.

My MIL is extremely critical of not only me, but also my husband and our parenting approach. When we would visit her when my eldest was a newborn she would say, "I can't wait to take you away from your mother!" among other things. She is one who repeatedly puts her emotional needs first. She intended to take my baby overseas for "a while" and thinks we're unreasonable in not allowing her to do so. Her own daughter rejects and abandons her children and her other son is in jail (not his fault, of course. He was led into it by his friends. Isn't that always the case?) My husband must be a changeling--or perhaps it was being sent to boarding school at 4 and being raised by Catholic nuns that saved him--whatever the reason he escaped and is completely unlike them.

And while this may sound outrageous to you, this is very mild compared to other situations I know of.

Being biologically "related" does not guarantee that an individual can or will act in the best interest of your child!


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## kezia (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Serena_
*

You honestly can't understand why grandmothers would want to spend time alone with their grandchildren? I don't think the point is to "get mom out of the picture"; Closer bonding does happen when you can spend time one-on-one with someone. What is so hard to understand about that???*
What I don't understand is why my MIL needs me to LEAVE my nursing child with her and go away for hours or overnight. You say you have memories of alone time with your Grandma, so I'm assuming this was when you were at least 3 yrs old or older. After re-reading the original post, I see she was talking about a 4 year old, so I guess I should have said I didn't understand why grandmothers need alone time with BABIES--or maybe you think that's perfectly reasonable too, I don't know. I still think rapunett has good reasons to not let her mom babysit (even for a 4 yr old), and I don't think she should have to "get over it" just because it's the child's grandma.

Quote:

*In my perspective, it's a real (s)mother who can't let anyone but her have any alone time with her child.

Why hoard and covet your own children? It seems a bit selfish to me.*
Am I supposed to take this as an insult? I never said that I don't let my child be alone with anyone else. True, when he was an infant, I rarely let him out of my sight, but since he was nursing exclusively, that was necessary. As he started eating more solid food, I was able to leave him with dh for short periods. Now that he's almost 2, he often has "alone" time with dh, my parents and siblings, and other trusted friends and family members. I guess my definition of "alone time" is just a bit different, because to me, it doesn't require that I leave the premises. It could be dh playing inside with ds while I work in the front yard, or my mom taking ds for a walk in her garden while I take a bubble bath. As he gets older, I'm sure he will graduallty spend time away from me more often and for longer periods, but for now, I don't think I'm being selfish not to allow my MIL (who suffers from anxiety attacks and migraines) to keep my baby for hours at a time.

Leaving ds alone with my own mother doesn't bother me in the least, mainly because she has never said that she WANTED me to. She recognizes that babies need their mothers. My MIL on the other hand, made comments from the beginning that I could "just pump the milk and leave it" as if the only thing ds needed from me was my milk.

I think I've taken this thread off track, but I guess what it boils down to is that I think a relationship between grandparent and grandchild should evolve naturally from the grandparent/parent relationship, not be forced just because a person is a "Grandparent". While I agree that it's beneficial for children to spend time with a variety of people, I don't agree that "Grandma" has a right to alone time just because of her blood relationship to the child. I think parents should be able to choose who they are comfortable leaving their children with and not be pressured to let someone babysit just because they're a family member.


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## laurajean (Nov 19, 2001)

kezia ITA!

Well, some of my most frightening memories were spent at the hands of my grandparents. How does getting your hair pulled, being hit with a wooden ruler or being told that you had to eat garbage sound? I remember getting my hair pulled by my grandfather as early as 2 years old! So, just because you are a grandparent does not entitle you to alone time with your grandchild. I think alone time is earned!

Yes, I do want my child to develop strong bonds with others. And he has... with the comfort and security of Mom close by. I will never leave my child alone with my parents. They have been/are verbally and physically abusive to my nephews IMO.

Although I did allow my MIL to babysit once, I am still not comfortable doing so. And, there are many reasons for this which I would rather not get into.

Rapunnett - be steadfast on your decision. And, know that you have support.

~Laura


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## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

I'm not sure how to say this tactfully without stepping on any toes, but here it goes. I am often guilty of not wanting to let my mother and stepfather watch my kids without me there. Their idea of babyproofing differs greatly from mine. They came from the generation that thought you didn't put things out of reach, you taught your kids not to touch things.

When I think about my kids growing up, I think about them having their own children. What if the pendulum swings in the other direction again where formula is considered the best way to feed a child and breastfeeding rates plummet, and that parents must be extra careful not to "spoil" their babies and children (not to say that this doesn't happen to day). There is a good chance that our children will follow the advice of the time and parent much differently than we are parenting them.

I hate to think that my son's might not want me to babysit their children, or to spend any time alone with them because they fear how I would treat their baby. It sounds crazy, but I'm sure that our parents never dreamed that we would be talking about them in the way we are here. If we don't allow our children and their grandparents time to grow to know and love one another we are denying each of them a great opportunity IMHO. I can totally see why a grandparent would want time alone with the grandchild. It must be tough for a grandparent to always see the child running to mom.

If our children spend little time with their grandparents and fail to develop a good relationship and memories with them, what will happen when their first child is born. The norm to them will be that babies and children don't spend much time, esp time alone, with their grandparents. How much time would we then expect to spend with our grandchildren. I'm betting it will not be as much as we would like.

Just food for thought here. I hope that none of us end up feeling so lost and left out of our grandchildren's life, as do many of our parents, when we become grandparents. Think hard about this topic. You could be depriving your child of a great relationship with his grandparents. How sad.

(please don't get on me about the extreme situations, ie: grandma wants to take the baby overseas, etc. That's obviously not what I'm talking about.)


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## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

Well said, Beth! I think about this all the time, although I think about it more in context of - if he had a kid out of wedlock, would I get to see the kid? You have to do some major butt-kissing to the mama to see the kid.


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## kezia (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

*If we don't allow our children and their grandparents time to grow to know and love one another we are denying each of them a great opportunity IMHO.*
I still don't see why grandparents have to have extended, unsupervised visits with a child to have a relationship. And I totally fail to understand why they want these visits at such a young age. While I could see it being fun for a school-age child to spend the night at Grandma's house, I don't see a younger baby/child getting the same enjoyment from it. Obviously, the younger the child, the more they need mom, and I don't see what "great opportunity" is being missed by not leaving a child alone with a grandparent at a young age. What benefit would it have been for my ds for me to pump my milk and leave him overnight with my MIL so she could give him bottles and pretend to be his mommy? Someone please explain this to me.

Quote:

*I can totally see why a grandparent would want time alone with the grandchild. It must be tough for a grandparent to always see the child running to mom.*
Why is this tough? Babies are *supposed* to be strongly attached to their mothers, right? Am I the only one here who doesn't see a "need" for a baby to develop an intense bond with a grandma? Or have I left the AP haven of Mothering and gotten lost somewhere in the twilight zone?

I know they want to interact with the child one-on-one, but I honestly don't see why the mom has to be absent for this to happen. For the first year or so of ds's life, I rarely left him, but gradually we began to seperate. When he was smaller, yes, he would often run to me and not want to have much to do with Grammie (my mom), but he's almost 2 now, and has started preferring her over me when we visit. We just got back from visiting her this weekend, and ds was grabbing her by the hand and leading her into the other room, outside, whatever. He would even turn around and say "Bye, Mom" on his way out. To me, that's the way it should happen--at the child's initiative, not the parent saying "okay, I'm leaving you with this person now because she's your grandma and I think it's important for you to develop a special relationship with her."

Quote:

*The norm to them will be that babies and children don't spend much time, esp time alone, with their grandparents. How much time would we then expect to spend with our grandchildren. I'm betting it will not be as much as we would like.*
I think our relationship with our grandchildren will have less to do with our children's relationship with our parents and more to do with OUR relationship with our children. My mom and I have always been close. I consider her a friend as well as my mother, so naturally I want to spend time with her, and she wants to spend time with me and my family. MIL, on the other hand, has never been close to dh and has made little attempt to include me in her family. She wants to spend time with ds, period. She could care less if dh and I are part of the visits.

I honestly don't think any of us would mark our parents off the potential babysitters list simply because of a difference in parenting styles. I obviously have deeper issues with my MIL, and I would bet most others who don't want grandma babysitting do, too. it's just easier to talk about the seemingly petty things rather than delve into the real issues. Personally, I have put a great deal of thought into my reasons for not wanting MIL to babysit, and I'm very comfortable with my decision not to allow it.

I hope that when/if ds has children, he will do what is in their best interests and not feel like he "owes" me time alone with them. I intend to do everything I can to maintain a close relationship with him throughout his life, and hopefully he will want me to spend time with his family. I really don't see how my not letting MIL keep him overnight is going to impact my future relationship with my grandchildren.


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## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

Great point kezia! That is why trusting our instincts is important. I want my child to be loved by all but if I don't trust someone, he isn't going there without me.


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## laurajean (Nov 19, 2001)

kezia,

I completely agree. I too do not understand the logic re: if we don't leave our children alone with grandparents than our children will not leave us alone with their children. Honestly, I hope my ds and my future dil practice AP as well. And always do what is in the best interest of their children. Including exclusively breastfeeding - which automatically limits "alone time".

Can that logic also be used in reference to our relationships to our children in relation to our parents relationship to us? The logic is flawed and does not make sense.

I hope to build an interdependent relationship with my child. Where we are in a loving, trusting and mutual relationship. This type of relationship I do not have with my own parents.

Interestingly enough, I bet my MIL sees my son more than most grandparents due to the close proximity of our living situation - she is about 10 minutes away by car, 30 minutes by foot. She sees him at least twice a week. And, for long periods of time too. My dh or I are always with him (except for the one time she babysat).

~Laura


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## Serena (Nov 24, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by kezia_
*

I still don't see why grandparents have to have extended, unsupervised visits with a child to have a relationship. And I totally fail to understand why they want these visits at such a young age. While I could see it being fun for a school-age child to spend the night at Grandma's house, I don't see a younger baby/child getting the same enjoyment from it.
*
What do you mean by "unsupervised"? In that situation the grandparent IS the supervision. You make it sound like anyone but the mother is a child molester on the loose! A convicted felon who should only be allowed to see the child while "supervised." I respect WHATEVER you want to do with your own children but for my own situation, I just don't get it--and I DO consider myself an attachment parent. I just never interpreted attachment parenting as ONLY letting the child become attached to the mother. I thought it was raising a child to form strong _attachments_, not only with you.

I totally agree that it's not necessary for a grandparent to have lengthy alone-time with an infant. The child in the original question in this thread was four years old!!! And I'm sorry if my original response was harsh--I admit I had a terrible attack of pity and empathy for this grandmother that Rose Ann was talking about







. It seemed almost like discrimination just because the grandmother was elderly and a bit disabled.

And these posts about grandparents who were/are clearly neglectful, inappropriate or abusive, pulling hair, beating with wooden rulers, etc., are obviously exceptions and beside the point, and also don't relate to the original post, which is clearly the case of a grandmother who LOVES her grandson. In case it wasn't clear my point relates to loving grandparents.


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## kezia (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Serena_
*In that situation the grandparent IS the supervision.*
I think the point is that some of us don't feel that grandma is capable of providing ADEQUATE supervision. I feel like you're saying that we are obligated to let them babysit unless there is the potential for abuse or neglect. In Rose Ann's case, she feels that her mom's physical limitations could endanger her child, yet you are saying she should "get over it". In my case, my MIL suffers from anxiety attacks and debilitating migraines (not to mention that she's scatterbrained and irresponsible), yet you've called me selfish and smothering for not letting her babysit.

Quote:

*I just never interpreted attachment parenting as ONLY letting the child become attached to the mother. I thought it was raising a child to form strong attachments, not only with you.*
I don't recall ever saying that it did--in fact, I made it clear that my child DOES have frequent one-on-one interaction with other adults without me present. I even gave a specific illustration of his growing attachment to my own mother, but I feel like you're still trying to paint me as some overprotective mother who is afraid my child will love someone besides me. Not the case at all--I'm not even trying to keep him from being attached to MIL--I just am not comfortable letting her babysit.

Quote:

*I admit I had a terrible attack of pity and empathy for this grandmother that Rose Ann was talking about







. It seemed almost like discrimination just because the grandmother was elderly and a bit disabled.*

Discriminated against? You make it sound as though babysitting one's grandchildren is a right that this woman is being denied. I wholeheartedly disagree with that POV if that's what you're saying. Again, I think that if grandma is not a capable and reliable sitter, no amount of love she has for the child is going to change that.

I still think Rose Ann is doing the right thing by trying to find ways for her mom to interact with her child other than babysitting him, especially since she and her husband both feel strongly that her mom is not capable of caring for the child on her own.

edited to add: I think I got several posters confused and lumped together as one person, my apologies, Serena


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## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

Kezia, I can see by your reply that you totally misread my post. I in no way advocated leaving infants with anyone but the child's parents overnight. My son was three and a half before he stayed overnight (from 5:00pm till noon the next day) without us. It was his choice to go, no one forced him. If a child is not ready to spend the night anywhere but home, he or she should not be made to.

The initial post dealt with the grandmother wanting time alone with the grandchild. We are talking about an hour or two here, not extended periods. Please re-read my last post with unbiased eyes and think of it in this context. I think that we are being selfish if we think that we are one of the few who have anything to offer our children. My oldest son was 2 1/2 when my second was born, and rather than have my mom and stepdad come stay with him we chose my mil (ds went home at his bedtime every night and was there all night and when he woke up.) I'm so glad that he was comfortable with her, or it could have been a nightmare. He would have been bored stiff in the hospital room all day. Had he not had experience without us for a few hours, it could have been really tough for him.

I don't think anyone here is advocating overnight visits for young children or infants with ANYONE including the grandparents. The focus should be on letting the grandparents babysit for an hour or two. My grandma was in her late 60's and 70's when I was young, and she did just fine with all of her 26 grandchildren staying with her. She died two years ago at age 87. Up until she was 86 she had my elementary aged cousin stay at her apartment every Friday night. He began the tradition when he was a preschooler -- She was in her 80's, very vision impared and did just fine. I hate to see us underestimating our parents. Mothers in wheelchairs have kids, mothers with cerebral palsy have kids, mothers with many types of disabilities have children, and we don't think their children are in immediate danger with them.

I am all for being cautious with who we leave our children with, and their will be exceptions to every rule, but when we are afraid to leave our children alone with our parents for even an hour in our own safe house, I think we need to look at OUR reasons for it. We need to evaluate what we are really afraid of.


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## kezia (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by jbcjmom_
*The focus should be on letting the grandparents babysit for an hour or two. My grandma was in her late 60's and 70's when I was young, and she did just fine with all of her 26 grandchildren staying with her. She died two years ago at age 87. Up until she was 86 she had my elementary aged cousin stay at her apartment every Friday night. He began the tradition when he was a preschooler -- She was in her 80's, very vision impared and did just fine. I hate to see us underestimating our parents. Mothers in wheelchairs have kids, mothers with cerebral palsy have kids, mothers with many types of disabilities have children, and we don't think their children are in immediate danger with them.*
And I'm sure that in those cases, the women know/knew their limitations. My MIL doesn't. She has has 3 shoulder surgeries, and the dr told her not to lift anything over 15 lbs. Ds weighs over 30 lbs, and she is continually picking him up. She has back problems, and isn't supposed to bend and reach, yet she gets down in the floor and wrestles with ds, and on our last visit, she climbed in a chair and was trying to get something out of the cabinet over the refrigerator. Ds can easily outrun her, and doesn't yet understand crossing streets, etc, yet she always wants to take him outside. Rose Ann expressed similar concerns about her mother--are you saying they are invalid?

Quote:

*I am all for being cautious with who we leave our children with, and their will be exceptions to every rule, but when we are afraid to leave our children alone with our parents for even an hour in our own safe house, I think we need to look at OUR reasons for it. We need to evaluate what we are really afraid of.*
Again, I don't understand why grandparents should be given special consideration as babysitters just because they're the grandparents. Either they're capable or they're not, and if the parents feel strongly that they're NOT, then that should be the end of it. I don't think that GPs have a "right" to babysit, and I don't see how me being in the next room (where ds can't even see me) is hindering her "bonding" with ds. No one has explained to me yet why "alone time" (as in mom leaves the premises) is necessary or beneficial for the CHILD.

Again, let me say that I would have no problem with my parents, my brothers, or dh's brother babysitting ds--it's only MIL that I have issues with in this regard.


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## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

Everyone agrees that you should trust your instincts. You know if your mom/mil is an appropriate caregiver or not. The Supreme Court ruled that parents have the right to decide whether or not grandparents are involved or not. However, it is a valid point that there is benefit to encouraging a grandparent relationship. We should just all look inside and decide what it best. We have to examine our own motivations. I try to limit my mom because I think she uses ds for her own emotional needs. I know from experience that can quickly turn into a burden and sour a relationship. I also don't use my mil a lot because she resents babysitting. But I do encourage and allow relationships with them, even separate of me.

I doubt anyone here has totally unfair feelings towards their mom or mil. Usually your ill feelings are precipitated by valid reasons to limit this contact to a point where you feel your child is safe.

Am I making sense? I am trying to say that everyone has a point, and I think we all really would agree if we sat down and discussed our situations on a case-by-case basis.


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## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

I certainly hope that when my children have children of their own that they don't consider their next door neighbor, or babysitter to be as important in the childs life as I hope that I will be. These people may be important for a time, but will doubtfully be an influence for the course of their life. I certainly hope that my kids will want me to have a special relationship with my grandchildren. With people living so far apart these days, the importance of family seems to get lost. My mom may drive me nuts, but I bite my tongue a lot and let my son develop a healthy and loving relationship with her. My issues shouldn't come into play in their relationship. My grandmother often drove my mom crazy, but she didn't let it affect my relationship with my grandma.

It has taken me a couple of years and a lot of soul searching to get to the point I'm at to be able to be comfortable putting the grandparents in charge of my kids. I found that much of my apprehention arose from the fact that I was an AP mom and they were from the old school. I resented the implications that I was doing it wrong and spoiling my children, even when they were delivered tactfully. My kids don't know my frustration with their grandparents, nor should they. These are my issues, and should not affect their relationship with their grandparents.

My mom feeds my kids crap when I'm not around. I hate it, but my kids love it. My grandma did the same for me. Sometimes we have to let go of some of the control we feel we have to have over our children. There will be exceptions to every rule, and if you think your MIL is incompetent to care for your child, then by no means leave them alone together. But the attitude on the boards began to turn a bit anti-grandparent (regardless of their physical ability) because of their requests for time alone with the grandchildren. That is why I have taken this attitude. I feel for the grandparents today because parents don't NEED their parents like they did in years past. We have zillions of books on parenting at our disposal, we have the internet to answer every question we have, and that must be very sad and disheartening to grandparents who were looking forward to being needed for advice and emotional support. Instead, the exact opposite happens.

I'm not telling people to leave their children in the hands of incompetent people, no matter who they are. What I am saying is that I hope people re-evaluate their reasons for not wanting their children to spend time alone with their grandparents, and make sure that the reasons are not selfish or self centered. It's nice to be the center of our children's universe, but it's a big world out there, and our kids can use all the love and support they can get from people who are eager to be a part of their lives -- especially their grandparents.


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## kezia (Nov 19, 2001)

Beth, I understand that you think the grandparents are important in a child's life, and that the relationship should be encouraged. As I have said repeatedly, I AM trying to make sure my ds spends as much time as possible with his GPs (MIL included). But you still have not explained to me how the relationship is intrinsically "better" or more "special" if the GP has the opportunity to babysit. When my MIL visits, I often leave her & ds alone in his room for an hour or more while I fix dinner or catch up on my email. How would me getting in the car and leaving for that hour improve my son's relationship with MIL?

I won't speak for anyone else, but I think that my big problem with GPs requesting "alone time" with the kids is that in many cases, they start in about it way too early (Rose Ann said that her mom started asking to babysit from the time the child was born--this was the case with my MIL as well), and it seems to be all about THEM and what THEY want, and not about what's best for the child. I'm not saying that all GPs are this way, but many are.

You keep throwing out words like "selfish" ans "controlling" in reference to those of us who don't want Grandma to babysit. If you think those words apply to YOUR past reasons, that's great that you now recognize the error of your ways, but please don't generalize about the rest of us. I think you are well-intentioned, and I too would encourage moms to carefully examine their reasons if they are standing in the way of a relationship between a child and his GPs, but I still don't understand why the parents must be absent for children to form attachments with others.

As my ds gets older and more capable of taking care of himself, I might feel more comfortable leaving him in MIL's care for short periods, but even a 4 yr old like Rose Ann's son still seems awfully young to me, especially since the Gma wants to take him to a crowded public place.

I think maybe I've taken this whole thing too personally because it so closely mirrors my own situation. Rose Ann, if you're still out there, I apologize for hijaking your thread.


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## Serena (Nov 24, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by kezia_
*
I think the point is that some of us don't feel that grandma is capable of providing ADEQUATE supervision. I feel like you're saying that we are obligated to let them babysit unless there is the potential for abuse or neglect.*
No, of course I'm not. Actually I don't think there's any generalization about this that either of us can make--this is SUCH a topic where every case is totally different. Our relationships with our parents are so individual and we have so many different emotions, tensions, so much karma associated with them, and they with us. So every case needs to be approached on its own merits. I never called you personally selfish or smothering, I was simply commenting on a parenting style that ends up hurting others--as I saw it. Every mother can, and should, make her own decisions.

I guess the bottom line for me is this: our children are such beautiful, precious gifts. They radiate love and goodness and everything wonderful, and it benefits humanity not to try to keep all that for ourselves, but to let others share it. For me, that is especially important with the mothers who raised us. But that's just me







.


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## kezia (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Serena_
*
I guess the bottom line for me is this: our children are such beautiful, precious gifts. They radiate love and goodness and everything wonderful, and it benefits humanity not to try to keep all that for ourselves, but to let others share it. For me, that is especially important with the mothers who raised us. But that's just me







.*
I totally agree, but as I've said continually, I don't understand why the time a child spends with GPs doesn't really "count" unless the parents are absent. That is definitely my MIL's arritude about it, and I'm getting the same vibe from some of you here. I know you guys keep saying I'm taking things the wrong way, but when things are said in direct reponse to my posts, I tend to take them personally.


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## Serena (Nov 24, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by kezia_
*But you still have not explained to me how the relationship is intrinsically "better" or more "special" if the GP has the opportunity to babysit. When my MIL visits, I often leave her & ds alone in his room for an hour or more while I fix dinner or catch up on my email. How would me getting in the car and leaving for that hour improve my son's relationship with MIL?*
Just speaking from personal experience, looking back at my relationships with different babies and children in my life-- I have had MUCH closer, more intimate, more comfortable relationships with those I've had the opportunity to spend time ALONE with. I Not just children, in fact--people in general. If a grandparent cares for a child alone, the child will regard that grandparent as a caretaker, not just a playmate. The grandmother will become someone from whom the child will accept comforting, with whom the child can share secrets and stories, and so much more. This seems so obvious to me!! You really can't see it at all? Even subtracting your own feelings about your mother and looking at it objectively?

Beth, I think your posts are very well put, and your point is very well taken by me.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Serena I think you explained the reasons behind what is special about "grandparent only" time very well.

We have gone very S-L-O-W-L-Y in letting grandparents keep ds alone for any length of time. He was not an easy toddler and none of the grandparents even asked to keep him without me there...they were tired just watching me run around after him the whole time! LOL

However, it has been great to know that now at 5, he has run errands with my mother and been left alone for an hour or so to play computer with my father. I think this is so good for ds, because it DOES get him to attach and cope with other adults, and it *isn't* the same if I am there.

Grandparents certainly are more special, in general, than other friends. Just from a biological POV, this is their immortality too, and I would think my parents would risk their own lives to keep ds safe, more easily than a babysitter would. Grandparents are a permanent fixture. Babysitters come and go. Grandparents are around until they die. That is so special!

Some grandparents are up to the challenge of babysitting a toddler, but in response to the original post, once children get up to 4 or 5 years of age, they aren't just crazy little bundles of energy bouncing off walls. You can talk and reason with them. Frankly, I would think a slightly disabled grandparent, who was FULLY intact mentally, could EASILY supervise a child over 5. Parents in wheelchairs raise chidren, and parents with other disabilities raise children every day, you know??

None of my grandparents could ever have caught me had I run from them, however I have great memories of many safe visits with all my grandparents. I was about 4 or 5 when I started staying with them, and loved it. My grandfather was a stroke victim, and ignored us most of the time, but my grandmothers were both bright clever women who filled the visits with treats and surprises and lots of great memories. I WANTED to spend time with them. I was GLAD my mom was not there









If an older child loves grandma and gradma loves the child, even with a slight physical imparement, I can't imagine things would go badly in an hour or two in the child's own home. Just my feelings, and of course, every case is different and you have to go with your gut feelings about this type of thing.

Heartmama


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## kezia (Nov 19, 2001)

Serena, thank you for explaining that. I can certainly see what you are saying. I guess I'm just stuck thinking about my own situation with my own child--who isn't even 2 yet-- and you guys are talking about older children. As I said before, I may feel differently when ds is 5.


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## Pallas (Nov 19, 2001)

I've been following this thread with mixed feelings ... I only have qualms about one of Cub's grandparents (out of six, which isn't a bad percentage!) and it's not an issue of competance at all. (please, Articula, goddess of the bbs, let this come out right)

Cub is doted on by all six grandparents, and I'll NEVER need to pay a babysitter or a daycare! They're all (to different degrees) pretty respectful of my methods and perfectly able to chase down a toddler. (he's 14 mo right now)

However, one of his grandparents makes me really uncomfortable because of her ... well, overwhelming need for him. I'm not kidding, she'd take him for weeks at a time if I'd let her. We've had issues ever since he was born about the fact that when I am there and he cries, GIVE HIM TO ME. Do not turn and walk away, insisting that you can comfort him when he's reaching for me!! Mamabear totally comes out when that happens. She'd be over every night, take him every weekend, etc. if I let her.

This might be fine for some people, but I was raised with a certain level of privacy and I get oversocialized fairly easily. And I get really territorial when I feel (as I do with this one grandparent out of six) that someone is trying to rip my son from my arms. It makes me stubborn, and less willing to let her take him than one of the other, less intrusive grands.

I really hope I remember this when I have grandchildren. I'd hate to make someone else feel the way I do. Thing is, she's a wonderful woman and I love her very much, I just feel that I need to remind her EVERY FUCKING DAY that he is MY son, and HER grandson, and it's not the same thing!

Oh, jeez. This sounds so petty. But it doesn't FEEL petty, kwim?

Mamaste,

Pallas


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## Naomi (Nov 27, 2001)

Okay, I want to start by saying that I don't think any parent should leave a child unsupervised with an abusive grandparent, or a severely-disabled-and-in-denial grandparent, or a genuinely irresponsible grandparent. But I agree with whoever said that there's a strong anti-grandparent bias on this site as a whole, and that this is too bad.

On one hand, OF COURSE you need to protect your child, and in some cases that means protecting them from your own parents (or your in-laws). On the other hand, I think that when the grandparents are loving and reasonably sane and responsible, it is important to foster and encourage a relationship between them and your children. And part of that means not micromanaging their relationship. I've seen people on this site absolutely frothing at the mouth because the grandparents let the kid have Twinkies -- okay, if your child is allergic to Yellow Number Five, or if we're taking about a six-month-old, fair enough, but if we're talking about a normal six-YEAR-old, a Twinkie ain't gonna cause all that much damage.

And like Serena, I absolutely understand why grandparents want some alone time with the grandkids. When she was younger, my dd would show a marked preference for me when I was available, to the point of ignoring her father, grandparents, etc. When I was gone, she would actually play with her father, grandmother, aunt, etc. OF COURSE my mother relished her opportunities to be the person dd reached for and clung to! This isn't because my mother wants to pretend that she is dd's mother, or because she has some sort of sinister plans for my absence. But she cherishes one-on-one time with her granddaughter.

My dd is 18 months old, and she ADORES my mother (and my father and sister). And this makes me very happy. It means that if dh and I do want to go out, we can do it without a lot of stress. It means that in an emergency (up to and including our sudden death -- we're naming my parents as guardians in our will), dd will be with people she loves and who love her. And it means that there are more people in dd's life who love her.

I understand that some of the hostility towards grandparents comes from people who were abused as children. Of course, of course, if your parents were abusive to you, then you should not EVER leave your children alone with them! But in most cases, we're talking about different parenting styles, different choices. I'm fortunate in that my parents DO respect my choices (even cosleeping







) and aside from the cosleeping, my choices don't differ that much from theirs (my mother nursed me until I was 2 1/2). And, my parents are NOT nagging me for an overnight with still-nursing dd (though there are nights, like tonight, when I'd be happy to drive her over there myself....)

Anyway. I'm really tired and I'm going to stop here.


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## wimbini (Nov 22, 2001)

I don't think it is selfish or anything like that.

Serena, not all grandmothers are lovely matrons baking warm cookies. How about my sister's MIL. My sister finally gave in to her MIL's insistence that she babysit alone with her just turned five months old daughter. My sister had told her MIL about her plans to gradually introduce on solid food at a time when her bf baby turned six months old. Sister had read an entire book on the subject (Super Baby Food) and consulted with Sears Baby Book on it. She planned to videotape it, bought special bowl and cup, planned the exact meal, planned to pump her breastmilk to mix with the cereal, etc.

Sister came home after less than 45 minutes and found that her MIL had given dd her first solid food... a piece of raw apple for dd to chew with her two tiny partially revealed teeth. (choking hazard) MIL followed that up with a quarter cup of iron fortified infant cereal mixed with formula. Sister's baby vomited in a coughing, pained way all night long. Well, sister told MIL about it at breakfast next morning, but did so very sweetly. Did that stop sister's MIL? No, right then, in front of sister, MIL gave sister's baby chocolate ice cream! Sister missed the first spoonful, but she stopped her at the second spoonful!

Sister's MIL then said that Sister was just holding her grandbaby back, and then smugly read from her son's baby book which said "At four months [sister's dh] was enjoying coffee from the cup and wine from the glass."

I wish I were making this up.

It's not selfish to love and protect your baby.


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## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Pallas_
*However, one of his grandparents makes me really uncomfortable because of her ... well, overwhelming need for him. ....Thing is, she's a wonderful woman and I love her very much, I just feel that I need to remind her EVERY FUCKING DAY that he is MY son, and HER grandson, and it's not the same thing!
*
Is my mother secretly your child's grandma? This is my mother exactly. My mom even makes doc appts. for ds without telling me. I have to tell her every time he visits: DO NOT CUT HIS HAIR. She even slips up and calls him "my son" instead of "my grandson" sometimes.

I limit her too. As much as possible these days without interrupting the relationship's healthy part.


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## Serena (Nov 24, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Pallas_
*
I really hope I remember this when I have grandchildren. I'd hate to make someone else feel the way I do. Thing is, she's a wonderful woman and I love her very much, I just feel that I need to remind her EVERY FUCKING DAY that he is MY son, and HER grandson, and it's not the same thing!

Oh, jeez. This sounds so petty. But it doesn't FEEL petty, kwim?
*
Pallas, it does NOT sound petty. I completely, completely understand what you're saying. Kezia, I also know what YOU'RE saying--it IS hard to see past our own emotion-filled situations. Absolutely. What I'm saying about grandparents is very general. I also have totally different feelings about the specific grandparents in my child's life. Pallas, I've had the same exact experience with my MIL--but thank god she doesn't live close so it's not an option for her to pressure me that often. But she's exactly like this--will want to keep holding dd even if she's crying and wants me. It drives me crazy and drove me to tears when dd was a newborn and I still felt, literally, physically attached to her.

I also had a slight feeling of "ugh! get away!" at the sheer emotionalism of all the grandparents involved, although I know some grandparents are indifferent and I should feel grateful. I'm glad they love her but they were all so... so BLUBBERY about it. FIL, my own mom... they can barely keep the tears out of their eyes around her. Get a life!


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## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

Quote:

You keep throwing out words like "selfish" ans "controlling" in reference to those of us who don't want Grandma to babysit. If you think those words apply to YOUR past reasons, that's great that you now recognize the error of your ways, but please don't generalize about the rest of us.
kezia, I have reviewed my past posts and have yet to find the word "controlling" in any of my posts on this thread, and the only time I found I used the word selfish was in the following statement: "What I am saying is that I hope people re-evaluate their reasons for not wanting their children to spend time alone with their grandparents, and make sure that the reasons are not selfish or self centered." I don't consider that "throwing out words." If I am wrong, please feel free to call me on it.

By the way, I am not "generalizing about the rest of us"/you I am simply trying to help you to open your eyes. It is you that seems to feel so strongly that grandparents should have no special place in their grandchildren's life. Heck, by reading your posts, it seems that any loving neighbor or friend could take the place of a grandparent. IMHO this is sad. As I have said before and will say again because you seem to be skipping over this part of my posts, I am in no way advocating that anyone leave their child with a person (grandparent or otherwise) who is not capable to care for them. I also don't think that young children or babies should be left overnight at the houses of others without a parent there.

What I am advocating is giving both our children and their grandparents the chance to develop a wonderful and loving relationship. If this means that the grandparent would like an hour or two alone with their grandchild (and they are a capable caregiver) what are we afraid of? I'm sad that many here don't seem to see that when we restrict visits with grandparents, we could also be doing our children a disservice. My mom drives me nuts, my son loves her to death -- which is more important? I would hate to see my annoyance with my mother get in the way of my son's relationship with her.

I can tell by the posts that many of us posting have younger children and babies. I can tell because up to about a year and a half ago I could have written any and all of the posts by those who are hesitant about letting the grandparents have alone time with the grandchildren. Now my kids are nearly four and 17 months and I see the wonderful relationship developing between my kids, especially the oldest, and their grandparents -- all five of them. Kezia, I felt just like you a few years ago. I too felt that there were many other people in my son's life who were as important, if not more, than the grandparents. I was overprotective, and yes, I was selfish. My son now takes the lead and wants to spend time with his grandparents. He enjoys his time alone with them, as does my 17 month old. They spoil them much more than dh and I do. Once we set down the rules off what was acceptable spoiling, and what was unacceptable to us all was fine.

My mom and stepdad have now realized that if they want to spend time alone with my children there are rules to be followed and limits to be set. They accept it now. The rules and limits they have with my niece are much laxer (actually, I don't think there are rules and limits with her) and it was hard for them to understand where we were coming from at first, but they have finally come to see us as adults and parents who are working to raise our children in the way we think is right.

My mother fed my son pecan pie (minus the pecans) when he was six months old. I was not happy about it at the time, but I let her do it for a few bites. I could have demanded that she stop and made us both upset (and likely my son too.) but I stepped back and realized that it was not going to kill him, and I would only have been making my life more miserable. I feel bad for the mom who was all set to capture those first bites of food on video, but I can assure her, she will get over it. There are so many more milestones that mean so much more. She can choose to dwell on it and make herself and grandma miserable, or she can move on, set limits with the grandparent for future visits and forget about it. She can't change it now. I do think that the grandmother was in the wrong, and she should not have done what she did, but no good can come from dwelling on it.

I decided long ago that I needed to pick my battles, not only with the grandparents but with my children and friends also. Set limits for the grandparents to follow, and if they can't abide by the rules set, then tell them there will be no visits alone. As with any caregiver, if they don't follow my rules, I don't use them. They will get the idea soon enough.


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## kezia (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by jbcjmom_
*It is you that seems to feel so strongly that grandparents should have no special place in their grandchildren's life. Heck, by reading your posts, it seems that any loving neighbor or friend could take the place of a grandparent.*
When did I say this? When have I said anything about neighbors or friends? When did I say grandparents weren't important or special? I'm really confused.


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## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

Continuous quoting of one another in order to respond to sections of a posters statement leads us nowhere. It has now become a frustrating disection of posts resulting in a metadiscussion rather than a fruitful discussion that will lead anywhere. I've done enough of this on the now defunct TCS thread and it was an exercise in frustration. We will never come to a meeting of the minds, although that was not necessarily what my intent was. I was hoping to open people's eyes to the benefits of having grandparents being an integral part of our children's lives. I have stated my opinion as eloquently as I could. To those who supported me, thanks. To those who disagree, I hope that you will at least take my words to heart and consider them as your children get older.

To the original poster, I apologize for the direction this thread has taken. I hope you were able to gleen some wisdom from the thread you started, even though it took a turn I'm sure you weren't expecting. My apologies again.

Signing off...


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## wimbini (Nov 22, 2001)

And I was heartbroken and furious... DH, mama's boy, said nothing. Gee, why don't I enjoy spending time with her?


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## kezia (Nov 19, 2001)

Beth--I'm sorry you no longer want to participate. I am equally frustrated, because I feel that YOU aren't really reading/understanding MY posts, either. I feel that you are projecting your own emotions onto me, and I think my situation is different from yours.

For the record, my eyes are wide open. I think that grandparents are GREAT, and that letting them babysit is a wonderful thing IF the GP is competent to care for the child AND the child and parent are both ready for the seperation. All I've been trying to say this whole thread is that parents shouldn't feel like they should have to "get over it" and let the grandparents babysit even when their own judgment and instincts are telling them it's not safe.

I AM NOT anti-grandparent, and I AM NOT anti-"alone-time" with GPS. What irritates me is GPs (like my MIL) who start asking to babysit the moment the child is born, and who think they have a "right" to do so. I just think the when, where, and for how long of babysitting should be at the discretion of the parents, and the GP should respect that. My own mother is a model GP, and I am totally comfortable leaving ds with her. There are also other family members on both sides that would be great babysitters. My MIL is not on that list, and nothing anyone can say to me about how wonderful and special GPs are will make me decide otherwise.


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## rapunnett (Feb 8, 2002)

Oh my!!!!








Not exactly the way I had envisioned my question being answered!! But interesting none-the-less.
I am still here, but haven't cheked in for a couple of days...boy did I miss alot..
My mom ended up ignoring me for the remainder of that week, not calling etc and left the weekend without a call too. She is usually in the area at her friends house and calls to see if/when she can come over.
She has of course persisted with the subject as the next time we spoke, she asked if she could take my ds with her friends and twin boys to an Easter Egg hunt, wagon ride, pancake thing. Long story short, I said yes and let her know that I would also go with.
I simply do not feel comfortable with her being solely in charge of my ds. I do not think she would ever intentionally harm him, but could quite easily unintentionaly harm him. Not something I am willing to risk.
Thanks for your input...it was quite interesting to see that there are definitley some strong feelings about this entire issue and the possibilities it brings up for everyone.
The reason I posted on this forum was to get a variety of opinions and some reassurance for my own feelings...both of which I feel I've gotten...so Thanks again.


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## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

Good for you! I often "find myself" on these threads amidst all the discussion.


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## newmomlearning (Jan 10, 2002)

Wow. I read the WHOLE thing!

What an educational exercise. Here's what I learned that was useful to me:

1). Ask yourself: Would leave your child in this person's care if they were NOT a relative?

2). "My child doesn't exist to fulfill someone elses emotional needs (including my own.)" (in other words, think of what's best for the child).


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## Maya (Apr 3, 2002)

just happened on this thread, and in response to Kezia's questions about alone time: it could be that some of these grandparents who want ALONE time want to prove that even as grandparents they haven't lost the "parenting touch" ... you know, if the child/baby cries for whatever reason, they can still "make it better". I think that's the case with my mom, and frankly, I'm glad to let her have a go at it. but she lives far away and we wish she or MIL were closer to take a bit of the pressure off sometimes.


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2002)

small vent re: my MIL here..... i thought it fit in with the theme of the thread

we're going to a la leche conference and asked MIL to come up to be with my daughter. we find that when its just two of us, we are always having to loook for the other parent and miss all of the session.

she said she'd do it IF she wasnt in too much pain as she has problems with her spine.

talked to her and she cant do it. she's in too much pain to make the two hour car trip -- i respect this completely!!!

apparently she then says that she's getting an epidural for the pian and in two weeks will be going to ENGLAND with her significant other.

last i knew england required a really really long airplane ride which apparently she'll be able to do, but wont be able to do the trip to see us... oooohhh kay that just makes no sense to me

she'd better not start Be.........itching about not seeing the only granddaughter


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## telekinetic pyro (Apr 19, 2002)

My mom watchs my son alot and has done a few overnights. But she completely respects how I parent. She says things to my son like "If mommy ever mistreats you, you can just come live with me" or "I know you mommy was raised better than to abuse you by feeding you carrots" but then she sits him at the table and feeds him the carrots, the minute he even starts to act like he might eat. I know she says this kind of stuff jokingly and would never undermine my parenting choices. She sleeps in a bed with him, so he won't get all freaked out and she does things pretty much exactly like I would (way better than my hubby. I'm way more likely to leave ds with my mom that I am with my husband)

My mil is a totally different story and she doesn't see my son nearly as much as my mom does. She informed me when my son was 10 days *10 days!!!*







old that if a baby of hers cried like that, she would just leave him to cry. Well that ended any thought of an overnight at her house until he is much much older and maybe never. She goes against everything I do as a parent. She was trying to get him to eat solids at two months! I walked into my kitchen and caught her mixing cearal. When I asked her what she was doing she told me I was starving that baby and if i didn't start feeding him, he would die. Talk about a guilt trip. I told her I wasn't interested in having a fat child and one side effect of starting cereal too early was being overweight and that since he came from a highly overweight family, I wanted to give him every chance I could to beat genetics. Basically a thinly veiled attack on her parenting. She has made every attempt to undermine my breastfeeding, including asking me to "not do *that* at her house. So I don't go to her house anymore. If she would like to see my son, she is welcome to come to my house and spend time with him. Now that he is a little bigger, he can spend a couple of hours with her at a time but the longest I have left him is about 3 hours, while I packed for our trip to New Orleans. And my stepdaughter was there, ready to tattle on her (much disliked) grandmother in a heartbeat. If she weren't a relative, she would never see my child, let alone be alone with him.


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## veggiewolf (Apr 11, 2002)

I'll throw my own experiences into the mix. I lived with my parents when my ds was born, so they were a part of his every day life from day one. I felt completely comfortable leaving him with them because I knew that even though they didn't agree with me, and would give me a hard time about some of my parenting strategies, they respected my wishes. My mother feels especially close to my ds - she held him before I did when he was born (I hemorrhaged and went into shock).

My MIL at the time lived across the country, and the first time she saw ds he was 18 months old. The minute she saw ds, she grabbed him from me (yes, grabbed is the right word), and hugged him. DS got very upset (he'd never seen this woman before, and he was tired from a long plane ride), and this WOMAN said, "Well, I can see I'll have to unspoil him while he's here." ARGH!!! The entire two weeks we were there were like that - and it was enough to drive me insane.

DS is old enough now that he can handle time with her (he only sees her once every few years, as his father and I divorced when he was very young - visitation with Daddy is court mandated, and MIL is always there), but I still cannot stand the woman. There are other reasons, but that's an issue for another thread.

April


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## Curious (Jan 4, 2002)

I have been following this and understand some of the apprehension as far as my dMIL goes. She has maje jokes about running off for cookies and ice cream, which does not engender the trust of this organic mother.

But my mother is another story. We've always been very close and she is wonderful with children. and Dd is no exception. We did need to have some talks about AP vs. the way she did things, but she's fully open to this more enlightened approach. She is my sold babysitter wehn I go to work 2 half days a week.

She broke her arm and has not been able to babysit much for the past 3 weeks. It will be a long 5-7 weeks to ge before her cast comes off and her arm is in good enough shape to lift Dd again. We are lucky to have her.


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## christina (Apr 3, 2002)

Rappunett:
I hope you actually get some good tips out of these lengthy and complex posts.
Suffice it to say, this has bene an issue for us:
I have set aside one day a week where Grandma meets as at a park, we play, then have lunch, then she watches while DS does music class.
I try to sit quietly out of sight and pretend I'm doing busy work.
This is "her day."
Also, I have an "appointment" for an hour, and go nearby, killing time, while they watch an appropriate video and read books and give him lunch.
These two ideas have worked well and maintain safe and comfortable boundaries, while GMA gets her needs met to feel needed and important.







:


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## christina (Apr 3, 2002)

Rapunett:
had "day" with GMA so had more thoughts...
we worked slowly into the above recommendation and started with GMA visits/sitting while I was in other room making phone calls, online, or resting...still close enough to hear but out of sight.
Pallas: I relate to the almost hysetrical love of Grandma...unusually desparate and all-encompassing.
Finally, I view the comment that the relative "didn't harm her son" theory as helpful as "you were raised on formula."


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## Juliacat (May 8, 2002)

I _preferred_ my grandmother to my parents when I was three and four years old, and looked forward to my parents leaving for the weekend so Grandma and I could have some fun!

But, I think it totally depends on the individual situation and what you're comfortable with. You have to do what you think is right.


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## Yaki (May 1, 2006)

I agree with you. I am a grandmother of a three year old, and am totally in love with her, as she is with me. I have to confess that I'm an overprotective mother (like Ramunette seems to be), and totally get on my daughter's nerves with my constant cautions, but she would never have the lack of heart to step between my grandchild and myself, or keep us apart, which would be too heartbreaking for me to bare!

I wouldn't suggest that Ramunette leave the child with her mother if she's not comfortable, but I DO suggest that she at least let the child "play" with grandma while she herself relaxes back and suns and whatever while the child and grandparent has quality time together. LOTS of quality time!

I have my gr'daughter daily while my daughter works, and she only turned three last Sept., but LOVES to cook and work outdoors and do the many many things that mostly a grandmother has time on her hands to teach and bond. My Haven can scramble her own eggs, make mini pizzas and party snacks, and so far has planted mint, dill, sage and rosemary this spring, and THRILLED to shuck some Indian corn and see that "her work" is coming to life amidst nature and a little water for thirst.

I would be so sad if her mother hadn't allowed me the time and opportunity to teach and be with her, to bond with her, to absolutely love her more than I have ever loved any of my children. See, that's what grandmother's do, fall in love with that part of themselves that goes on and on, and the grandchild is the one thrill in life that just can't be topped by any possible blessing. I promise.

As a friend of mine put it, a granchild is one's reward for being a parent.

Yaki


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yaki*
I would be so sad if her mother hadn't allowed me the time and opportunity to teach and be with her, to bond with her, *to absolutely love her more than I have ever loved any of my children.*

Depressed now...


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Serena*
????







:

You honestly can't understand why grandmothers would want to spend time alone with their grandchildren? I don't think the point is to "get mom out of the picture"; Closer bonding _does_ happen when you can spend time one-on-one with someone. What is so hard to understand about that??? In my perspective, it's a real (s)mother who can't let anyone but her have any alone time with her child. Children thrive when lots of people love them, when they can form unique, special relationships with family and friends. Some of my most precious memories are of wonderful afternoons and weekends spent _alone_ with my Grandmom. The point wasn't to get mom out of the picture: I had mom plenty of the time.

Why hoard and covet your own children? It seems a bit selfish to me.


I spent the night with both sets of grandparents and even once with a great aunt and great uncle. I remember the visits as being such fun. I have great memories. I do not feel that made my parents remiss in their responsibility to me, not at all.

I would love it if someone would want to take my children for a day. Especially my 2 older boys, ages 7 and 8. Me and DH never get to go out or spend any time alone. Of course, we are parents and do not expect the freedom we had before kids, but it would be nice to be alone every so often.

Now, that being said, I do agree that if there are real problems, like with drugs or drinking, abuse or blatent disrespect of the parents, then I can agree that perhaps overnight and/or frequent visits might not be a good thing. Otherwise, l see no problem.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Serena*
I have a slightly different view and I hope you won't feel like I'm questioning your judgment but... couldn't you and dh just get over it and let the poor woman babysit for ds? It sounds like she loves him a lot and would like to form a relationship without you hovering. Grandmothers play a very important role in a child's life. She won't be around forever, and when she's gone it might make you feel better knowing that you allowed her to do this thing that was so important to her and made her so happy.

She raised you and you're still alive, not wandering around lost in a zoo or museum, right? She's your mom. Give her this respect and let her babysit is my vote.

ITA.

Being deaf is not a crime. Plenty of deaf people get married and have children, and manage not to lose them in zoos.

If you are afraid that the zoo is too chaotic of a visit together, suggest something different...drop them off at an ice cream parlor for lunch or something.


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## snugg_bug (Nov 21, 2005)

I want to respond to this thread, even though the original post looks like it went up in 2002!
Anyways, just wanted to chime in. I don't believe that the OP has so much of an issue with grandma's hearing or whatever, as they do with grandma herself. I just put up my own thread in the parenting forum about your relationship with your parents, vs your childs relationship with them. IMO - some ppl have issues with their parents and unconsciencly expose their children to their own personal views of the grandparent. I feel that relationships with grandparents, or any extended family should be fostered with your child - if there is no present danger. I really hope to some day have a relationship with my own grandchildren, they way my mum does with DS. What goes around, comes around.

Just my 2 cents.


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## LIZnCHAD (Jan 6, 2006)

I think it depends a lot on the child's age and temperment as well as the grandparents.

1.) Would they majorly undermine your authority and cause harm by doing so? If you say no junk and they give your dc a couple of doritos, they undermined your authority, but really was there any harm done? Now if you say no solids, and they're mixing formula and rice cereal, obviously that's completely different.

2.) Are they physically capable and does dc know and respect their physical limitations? Many grandparents can't out run young kids, but that doesn't make them unfit care takers if the child is old enough to be reasoned with and you can be sure they won't take off. Being deaf in one ear and not able to pick up a 4 yr old does not make an unfit caretaker IMO.

3.) If you feel the grandparents aren't physically capable of taking care of your dc, but mentally they are see if a friend of theirs can tag along to help out with what they can't.

4.) I do believe grandparents can have a better relationship if left alone with the grandchild. I know when I used to babysat, I acted a lot more silly - jumping around, pretending I was an elephant, etc. I never would have done that if the parents were around.


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