# Natural consequence for this?



## guestmama9908 (Jan 23, 2007)

I made a gorgeous nursing necklace this afternoon. I was so excited. My mom gave me some beautiful stone and semi-precious beads to make it. I was wearing it for the first time and my DP called on the phone. I walked into the other room wearing it and holding my DD while talking to my DP.

My DS ran up to me and grabbed ahold of the nursing necklace. I asked him to please let it go. Instead of letting go and before I could stop him he yanked down as hard as he could and landed on his bottom on the floor. My necklace broke and beads flew everywhere. He started laughing hysterically. He thought it was funny that he had broken my necklace.

I want to cry. I spent forever on it. I had no idea what to say to him or do. All I did was pick up the beads and tell him I was sad he had broken my necklace.

What would a good natural consequence have been for his action?


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Did you let him see you be sad? Did you ask him to pick up the beads?


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## ctdoula (Dec 26, 2002)

Is it not okay to show him you're angry? I would be very angry if one of my kids intentionally broke something that was important to me, after I'd told them to let go. To me, that's just plain mean.







I'm sorry about your necklace!


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## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

I think I would tell him, in a calm way, that it hurt you that he pulled the necklace and it broke, maybe you can fix it together? If he is old enough, I am not sure how old he is.
I wouldn't hide tears from him, I think showing him that it made you sad, might help him understand, that what he did was nothing funny.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

How old is he?


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## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

This isn't a consequence of any kind, and it may only be suitable for certain ages (I dont know how old your ds is) but here it goes. Maybe give him a string and a bunch of beads one afternoon, and you bring along you beads and string to re-make your nursing necklace. Show him how you make it, and let him try to make his own. Encourage him to finish it if he gets antsy halfway through. When you are all done, talk about his necklace, how much work it took, how it was hard at some points, how he was able to continue until he finished. And of course, how hard he worked on it. Hang it somewhere where he can see it, and be proud of his work. That's it. I dont know, maybe it will help him see how hard it is to make that sort of thing. Depending on his age, (like if he's 2-3ish) he just does not get how hard you worked on something. And oftentimes, doing the opposite of what we ask, (not letting go) is way too much fun not to do it. I really doubt that he did it maliciously, you know? Anyway, hth


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ctdoula* 
Is it not okay to show him you're angry? I would be very angry if one of my kids intentionally broke something that was important to me, after I'd told them to let go. To me, that's just plain mean.







I'm sorry about your necklace!









:


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Are you sure it was intentional? How old is he? Maybe he just thought it was pretty and pulled on it? Toddlers don't have good impulse control.

I'd just re-string it and re-string it stronger. Especially if he's the one who is intended to handle it when nursing, because he sounds strong.


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## calidarling (Jul 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ctdoula* 
Is it not okay to show him you're angry? I would be very angry if one of my kids intentionally broke something that was important to me, after I'd told them to let go. To me, that's just plain mean.







I'm sorry about your necklace!

I totally agree with this! I would have no problem letting ds seeing my anger.


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## guestmama9908 (Jan 23, 2007)

I don't think he meant to hurt my feelings. I think he didn't realize it would break honestly. He is almost 3.

I like the idea of getting him some big beads of his own and letting him make a necklace.







:

He is VERY spirited. Sometimes we have a hard time communicating with eachother effectively. I am reading Raising Your Spirited Child right now. It is giving me so many great ideas.

Thank you!


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## Frithweaver (Jun 12, 2007)

Heilsa!








I'm so sorry!









First, I think you handled it







, considering that you didn't know what to do! Most mamas (guilty) yell or snap when they are suprised like that.

Young child: Nothing. They thought it was pretty and want it for themself to wear. They have no idea about necklaces breaking. *sigh* and re-string stronger.

Older young child: Say nothing, but do not hide your sadness! Children are very empathetic. Use that!

Older child: Yes, let them see that you are angry. Because in that instance it would indeed have been mean and iappropriate.

Now only you can put ages to the above list, because each child advances differently - especially emotionally.

And the person who said to have him make a necklace so that he understands the effort,







absolutely!!!

Again, I'm so sorry.







I've BTDT! I have three - the oldest is 9.5, and I've seen many things destroyed that I made.

In frith!







:


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## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

Yep. Anger is a normal emotion, it's just how we deal with it that can be tricky. I have no problem at all allowing my oldest child to know when an action triggers an angry response from me. I really believe that our children need to know that it's ok to be angry, it's ok to let other people know about that anger, and it's nothing to hide or cover up. It's how we deal with that anger that's the important part.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Are you sure it was intentional? How old is he? Maybe he just thought it was pretty and pulled on it? Toddlers don't have good impulse control.









: I'd assume it was an accident.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CalenandEllasmomma*
He started laughing hysterically. He thought it was funny that he had broken my necklace.

Kids laugh when something unexpected happens. You shouldn't take it personally.

While cleaning up the beads together, I would talk about what went wrong and how we could do better next time. I would tell him that I didn't want him to grab the necklace because I was afraid it would break. If he wanted to look at it, he could have asked and I would have shown it to him.


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## Mom2CommonCents (Mar 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2abigail* 
This isn't a consequence of any kind, and it may only be suitable for certain ages (I dont know how old your ds is) but here it goes. Maybe give him a string and a bunch of beads one afternoon, and you bring along you beads and string to re-make your nursing necklace. Show him how you make it, and let him try to make his own. Encourage him to finish it if he gets antsy halfway through. When you are all done, talk about his necklace, how much work it took, how it was hard at some points, how he was able to continue until he finished. And of course, how hard he worked on it. Hang it somewhere where he can see it, and be proud of his work. That's it. I dont know, maybe it will help him see how hard it is to make that sort of thing. Depending on his age, (like if he's 2-3ish) he just does not get how hard you worked on something. And oftentimes, doing the opposite of what we ask, (not letting go) is way too much fun not to do it. I really doubt that he did it maliciously, you know? Anyway, hth

So, you are rewarding his bad behavior by giving him beads, a necklace and showing him how to do it (which you'd proably end up doing anyway). How is that even remotely like punishment?

Seriously though, my reaction would be something like :
Angry voice: What did you DO!, pick up the beads, pick them ALL up, put them on the table, then go sit in time out until i'm done being mad, and if you give me any lip, i'll start taking toys (or other favorite objects).

That should do the trick, or something along those lines..

I do see that as being much better than spanking or hitting the child.

The time out helps them learn, they are forced to sit down and think about the last thing they did, which was break your necklace, maybe he will come to his own conclusion that he was wrong.


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## CrunchyParent (Mar 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2CommonCents* 

The time out helps them learn, they are forced to sit down and think about the last thing they did, which was break your necklace, maybe he will come to his own conclusion that he was wrong.

It has always been my understanding that the purpose of time out (ideally) is to remove a child from whatever stimuli (known or unknown) are triggering their maladaptive behavior. In essence it is removing them from whatever it is _in the environment_ that is stimulating or reinforcing a behavior. It is _not_ intended to be a time to "think about what you've done." Kids rarely do that. More likely they think about what *you've done* which was put them in time out.

As for the OP, I'm not sure that there is a natural consequence for the situation you described, given that a natural consequence by definition is one that flows naturally, without any additional intervention. The natural consequence is that the neklace broke and now there is no necklace. Unfortunately, that consequence ends up being for you though. Sorry I don't have a better suggestion.


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2CommonCents* 
So, you are rewarding his bad behavior by giving him beads, a necklace and showing him how to do it (which you'd proably end up doing anyway). How is that even remotely like punishment?

Seriously though, my reaction would be something like :
Angry voice: What did you DO!, pick up the beads, pick them ALL up, put them on the table, then go sit in time out until i'm done being mad, and if you give me any lip, i'll start taking toys (or other favorite objects).

That should do the trick, or something along those lines..

I do see that as being much better than spanking or hitting the child.

The time out helps them learn, they are forced to sit down and think about the last thing they did, which was break your necklace, maybe he will come to his own conclusion that he was wrong.

I want to reply to this, but I am really not sure what to say.







:







While I am no fan of time out, I understand some people need to use them. I would like to think that if you use them that they can be done in a gentle and respectful way without the use of threats?

Mom2CommonCents - you may also want to read around the forum a bit and get a feel for the mamas here. Many of us are pretty anti punishment and do not believe that by having compassion for our children's needs and impulses we are "rewarding bad behavior".







:

To the OP - I think its perfectly fine to explain to him that you are sad/angry/whatever feeling you have. I would also ask for help in picking the beads up. I second what the previous posters have said that he probably did not expect it to break, just thought it would be fun to play with and of course it was funny when beads went everywhere. Unfortunately things like that happen sometimes, I am sorry that you lost all of your work! I am sure it was beautiful!


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## mom22girls (May 5, 2005)

It was clearly an accident. And personally, I wouldn't hide your disappointment (even tears) and act the way you would want him to act if you had accidently broken something of his. At three, when they are beginning to be capable of empathy, modelling a response can be very effective for future incidents.

BTW - my most successful nursing necklace was actually a shorter length necklace that had a magnetic "clasp." If baby pulled and pulled (and I'm always amazed at their strength) the necklace would simply break free and baby could play with it while nursing.

Sorry about your necklace,







: I should let dh read your post so he can stop fuming about the fact I "never wear any of the jewelry" he buys me. That's why!!!!!


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## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

Mom2CommonCents...Umm, do you realize what forum you are posting in?







: We are not into punishing our children around here.







The behaviour wasn't 'bad' it was age appropriate for a toddler.







: I would never scream at my children, that is demeaning and shaming to them, and I value them just as much as I value any other human being. More even. Children are people too.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

he really is just a baby in a sense still....he's a toddler, yk? it doesn't mean you totally ignore it, but he should not have consequences like an older child imo. i know he laughed and how upset you must have felt, but he probably thought the beads flying everywhere was a wonderful surprise and it made him laugh, yk? i'm so sorry mama. what a terrible disappointment to have something so special be broken....but i don't think your son did it to intentionally hurt your feelings or break it. i think talking to him is more than sufficient at his age....but that's just my opinion.


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## towsonmama (May 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elizawill* 
he really is just a baby in a sense still....he's a toddler, yk? it doesn't mean you totally ignore it, but he should not have consequences like an older child imo. i know he laughed and how upset you must have felt, but he probably thought the beads flying everywhere was a wonderful surprise and it made him laugh, yk? i'm so sorry mama. what a terrible disappointment to have something so special be broken....but i don't think your son did it to intentionally hurt your feelings or break it. i think talking to him is more than sufficient at his age....but that's just my opinion.

















: I also think working with him to make his own necklace is a great idea.


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## majikfaerie (Jul 24, 2006)

OP, I agree with the PPs who said that it sounds like a totally age appropriate accident. you did the right thing; just let him know how you feel about it and pick up the pieces.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *majikfaerie* 
OP, I agree with the PPs who said that it sounds like a totally age appropriate accident. you did the right thing; just let him know how you feel about it and pick up the pieces.

Unrelatedly, I wonder if our friend mom2commoncents is a troll or just lost. did anyone else see her post history? such informative and helpful gems as these pro-cloned-meat and pro-vaxxing posts:

hi,
i think this post is unkind & it breaks MDC rules. momma2commoncents may think her advice _was_ gentle discipline. you don't know where she is at, and she may be growing still in her journey. she's only been a member for 10 post...and she may be very new to the concept of AP parenting. i think grace is sufficient and genuine comments as to why you disagree with her would be better received than rude remarks.


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## dis (May 21, 2005)

I just want to point out that I'd be very uncomfortable with a nursing necklace that, when broken, has beads go everywhere. IMO, the beads on a nursing necklace should be individually tied on (or have knots between each) so that if the necklace breaks, the maximum number of beads to come loose would be 1. Or a magnetic clasp so that if it's tugged, the whole necklace comes off.

I just have this image in my head of beads everywhere, not all of them being found, and some small person scooping one up at a later date and choking.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

With a three year old, showing your disapointment is fine. I do think he did not understand the consequences of his action.

And as 3 it IS funny that something put together can one second later be in a million pieces.

Your feeling disapointed and sad is really ennough.


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## majikfaerie (Jul 24, 2006)

elizawill, you're right, I shouldnt have been so snarky.
I guess I'm not having one of my best days (ended in DH walking out of the house with his bags packed







) and seeing yelling at a child given as advice on the GD forum tipped me







Sorry.


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## guestmama9908 (Jan 23, 2007)

Thank you again everyone.

As I said in an earlier post I do not feel what he did was intentional.
I was simply at a loss as to how to react. It was somewhat of a shock. Things flying everywhere and all.









I really like the idea of helping him to make his own necklace. I think that will give him an appreciation for the act of creating one.

To the previous poster who believed that the beads were unsafe. I agree that I should knot behind each individual beads. These are VERY large stone beads so they are easily grabbed and handled by little hands. I will definitely take your tip and knot behind each bead. Thank you.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *majikfaerie* 
elizawill, you're right, I shouldnt have been so snarky.
I guess I'm not having one of my best days (ended in DH walking out of the house with his bags packed







) and seeing yelling at a child given as advice on the GD forum tipped me







Sorry.

i totally understand, and i'm SO sorry to hear about dh







:

i just see posts here frequently about the things we see other mommas say & do....and how they discipline their children in ways we find inappropriate. therefore, when a mama finally comes here who uses techniques that seem very wrong in our eyes, it's important (imo) that we embrace that mama and help her learn a better way. we don't want to exclude her so severely or flame her that she doesn't return to the forums here to learn and grow. yk?









saying a prayer for you today mama...i hope your day improves. hang in there!


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## angie3096 (Apr 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2CommonCents* 
How is that even remotely like punishment?


It's NOT! This is the gentle discipline forum. We are not into punishing children here.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *majikfaerie* 
elizawill, you're right, I shouldnt have been so snarky.
I guess I'm not having one of my best days (ended in DH walking out of the house with his bags packed







) and seeing yelling at a child given as advice on the GD forum tipped me







Sorry.











(My first response to that particular post was a lot of anger, too. Its hard sometimes to feel compassion for the mom when you're thinking hard about what a child would be feeling if treated like that.)


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 









(My first response to that particular post was a lot of anger, too. Its hard sometimes to feel compassion for the mom when you're thinking hard about what a child would be feeling if treated like that.)

i so completely agree with you! that's my only point. if that mother feels flamed and unwelcome, she won't return to MDC, and will probably continue to practice punishment with her children. my comment honestly isn't for the mothers, as much as it is for their children









not always of course, but i think most moms want to find a better way than yelling or spanking their sweeties, ya know? they just don't know what to do? these forums are so invaluable to me in learning the best techniques to implement gentle discipline, and i want _all_ mothers to find GD as an effective method. does that make sense?


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2CommonCents* 
Seriously though, my reaction would be something like : Angry voice: What did you DO!, pick up the beads, pick them ALL up, put them on the table, then go sit in time out until i'm done being mad, and if you give me any lip, i'll start taking toys (or other favorite objects).

I'm not sure if you're serious, but if so, you might want to read the forum guidelines. This quote sums up the Gentle Discipline philosophy: _Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems._

Quote:

I do see that as being much better than spanking or hitting the child.
And a spanking might be better than being whipped with a belt. That doesn't make it ok. We can do even better by using loving guidance.

Quote:

The time out helps them learn, they are forced to sit down and think about the last thing they did, which was break your necklace, maybe he will come to his own conclusion that he was wrong.
I think they sit there and stew about what *you* did. It creates an adversarial relationship.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Did you let him see you be sad? Did you ask him to pick up the beads?

I'm guessing she's suggesting this is okay, and a natural consequence. Not to speak for ThreeBeans, but just conjecturing based on her previous posts.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

I try to let DD see me be sad (or hurt) when she does something that actually hurts me, and so far this has seemed pretty effective. Little ones may react in ways that we think are inappropriate (like laughing when something breaks) but they DO have a remarkable amount of empathy and it's important that they know the effect their actions have on others, including parents.

DD recently went through a pinching phase. If she got really excited and if I was holding her, she'd grab my cheeks and pinch them *really* hard. It hurt like hell. I don't know WHY she was doing this, it's possible it just felt really good. The first couple times this happened I put her down immediately and told her calmly that she was hurting mummy. This didn't accomplish anything (duh). After I thought about it, I realized I should respond honestly - yelping quite loudly and showing pain in my face - and that had a very strong impact. DD immediately started crying and ran to DH for cuddles, which was kind of awful - I didn't want to make her cry - but at the same time, it's a reaction that shows she can understand other people's emotions. FWIW, this only happened another 3 or 4 times after I started actually reacting to it, and she hasn't done it for some time now.

I don't think you should EXAGGERATE emotions or reactions though. That seems a little manipulative and dishonest.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
DD recently went through a pinching phase. If she got really excited and if I was holding her, she'd grab my cheeks and pinch them *really* hard. It hurt like hell. I don't know WHY she was doing this, it's possible it just felt really good. The first couple times this happened I put her down immediately and told her calmly that she was hurting mummy. This didn't accomplish anything (duh). After I thought about it, I realized I should respond honestly - yelping quite loudly and showing pain in my face - and that had a very strong impact. DD immediately started crying and ran to DH for cuddles, which was kind of awful - I didn't want to make her cry - but at the same time, it's a reaction that shows she can understand other people's emotions. FWIW, this only happened another 3 or 4 times after I started actually reacting to it, and she hasn't done it for some time now.

I don't think you should EXAGGERATE emotions or reactions though. That seems a little manipulative and dishonest.

You know, I don't think ds1 is a psychopath or anything, but I have to say that this absolutely did not work with him. He got in the habit of pinching the flesh under my arm while in the Ergo, and when I squealed, he was delighted. He thought it was incredibly funny.


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## AndVeeGeeMakes3 (Mar 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elizawill* 
i so completely agree with you! that's my only point. if that mother feels flamed and unwelcome, she won't return to MDC, and will probably continue to practice punishment with her children. my comment honestly isn't for the mothers, as much as it is for their children









not always of course, but i think most moms want to find a better way than yelling or spanking their sweeties, ya know? they just don't know what to do? these forums are so invaluable to me in learning the best techniques to implement gentle discipline, and i want _all_ mothers to find GD as an effective method. does that make sense?









I am concerned, though, that this particular user is not actually a serious poster. I looked over her other posts and noticed that she seems to enjoy being antagonistic. To "scare" her away or even ignoring her might be the best option for the rest of us that are seeking advice and support for our parenting choices. You know, it's a natural consequence to be shunned by people for being unfriendly. However, calling her a "troll" might not fit our gd philosophy.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
You know, I don't think ds1 is a psychopath or anything, but I have to say that this absolutely did not work with him. He got in the habit of pinching the flesh under my arm while in the Ergo, and when I squealed, he was delighted. He thought it was incredibly funny.

Yeah DD did the pinching my underarms while in a back carry in the sling, and yelping didn't help then either. The difference was that when she pinched my face and I yelled, it hurt more and I yelped far louder, and she was right on my lap, so my voice would have sounded LOTS louder than when she was on my back, AND she could see the pain in my face and the tears in my eyes.


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## sisterfunkhaus (Jun 24, 2007)

I would have told him that I was mad and sad (I believe that it is okay to express our emotions in a non-violent way i.e. no screaming, etc...) and I would have made him pick up the beads with my assistance. My own daughter did something similar with her own necklace the other day and she hated picking up all of the beads so much that I really think she will be more careful next time.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

So sorry about your necklace.

I agree with the other mamas that not hiding your anger, while of course not directing it at him, is the best natural consequence. Let him know that you are sad about the necklace and angry that he didn't listen to you. If necessary, explain that because he didn't do what you said, you are upset now. Pick up the beads with him and ask him to help you repair it.

Repair it with stronger string and a better latch, though.









I also agree that intent here is kind of fuzzy. At that age, he might very well have intended to pull it indefinitely (as long as it got a rise out of you) but not intended to break it. He didn't want to really hurt you, he just wanted to get a reaction.

Very tough. Hugs to you and your son.


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