# What is wrong with GMO foods?



## karika (Nov 4, 2005)

This is a spin off I was inspired to start after a post in another thread. I do not advocate the use of GMO (genetically modified organisms) technology in any form due to many reasons. Some people believe it is the only way to feed the burgeoning population of this world. Let's have a discussion on this. Perhaps many people do not even realize most of the foods in the US grocery stores have GMO ingredients (cheerios, Hershey's, frozen dinners... anything not labeled organic or GMO free has GMO components) Meat not labeled as being fed from a GMO free diet was fed GMO grains (unless it is grass fed) Here are some links to articles I have read that helped me make a commitment to a 100% GMO free diet for us (even though it means no mayonnaise since soy and canola have been compromised IMO, unless I make it myself...)

Deborah Koons "The Future of Food" full length film free to watch
http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi2420179737/ (LOL it is sponsored by hot pockets which has gmo components)

This blog has many of the articles gathered in one place, with clickable references. This site also has a lot of other great info
http://www.wellnessuncovered.com/joo...tent&Itemid=15

"Organic Agriculture Can Feed the World"
http://www.organicconsumers.org/organic/110705.cfm

I am sure I will post more later. Let's talk about this.


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## karika (Nov 4, 2005)

More and more studies are drawing the same conclusions. Americans don't seem to be listening as they continue to buy the Cheerios, drink the soda and eat meat raised on GMO grains. Like they say in Food, Inc., we vote with our dollars with every item that crosses the grocery store scanner. If we buy organic and non GMO foods, the industry will respond by making those foods more available. Here is a link, followed by a quote from the article.

http://salem-news.com/articles/april...gm-food-as.php
"Studies showed stunted growth, impaired immune systems, bleeding stomachs, abnormal and potentially pre-cancerous cell growth in the intestines, impaired blood cell development, misshaped cell structures in the liver, pancreas and testicles, altered gene expression and cell metabolism, liver and kidney lesions, partially atrophied livers, inflamed kidneys, less developed organs, reduced digestive enzymes, higher blood sugar, inflamed lung tissue, increased death rates and higher offspring mortality as well[3]."

Please stop eating the processed foods and ingesting the soda and anything else containing HFCS and other known GMO products, and tell everyone you know. All of us here on MDC, the natural mamas, are needed to bring the world back to sanity. If we all buy natural organic food only, the industry will respond.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

I honestly just don't think people really realize it. And even if they do, they don't have the money to completely avoid GMO and so get despondent and just don't bother. Thats where I am at this point - I don't have the money or the time to completely avoid GMO (time because that would involve driving an hour each way to a grocery store w/ organic foods... our local ones have a few things, but not anywhere close to a decent selection), and as a result I've just gotten to the point where I try not to think about it. I just don't have the time, energy, or money to avoid it and thinking about it makes me feel bad... so I don't.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:

to a grocery store w/ organic foods...
it's NOT _just organics_, other companies are catching on- some state it, other's you have to check out

just one that's not buying in GMO!!
www.clabbergirl.com/consumer/products/rumford/

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...top.html?cat=5


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## blumooned (Nov 11, 2009)

Thank you for starting this thread!
I guess I'm one of the ones who just didn't know! And I do know a lot about why one should eat organic/all natural, but GMO wasn't on my radar. I do know they're bad, but wasn't aware they were so prevalent in our food.
So, what are the main GM foods?
Corn
Soy
Canola
What else??
If I just look for non-GM of these, am I OK? Oh, and then the meat that was fed this stuff, too!
Ugh, why does food shopping have to be so complicated!?!?!


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## lakeruby (Jun 23, 2009)

I think the scariest thing that I've heard about GMO foods is that many European countries have completely banned them, becuase they (and we) don't really know the long-term effects of eating them. I know at least one European official has said that they are watching American children who are growing up eating GMO foods, and waiting to see the long-term effects before they approve the use of GMO foods....Personally, that's all I need to know to understand that I want no part of GMO!

I think we are constantly shown, in scenarios all over the world, that we can't just change nature and expect to get away with it without causing some harm somewhere!

It is a huge headache to try to sort out food choices these days, though! We do pretty good with meat and dairy, and we don't use much processed food, but we are starting to have to think about what we feed our animals, etc, and it's getting quite expensive to stay GMO-free. It would be so nice if our government took the "guilty until proved innocent" approach that Europe is taking. It would sure make my life easier/cheaper!


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## Sativarain1 (Feb 27, 2003)

I feel that many people just don't know about GMO's in their food supply. Also the cross contamination of seeds in the enviroment is scary enough. Foods in our grocery stores aren't labled to announce that it is from a GMO seed. It 's important to know which foods contain them and which don't but many just aren't aware.
Someone above mentioned that other countries have banned them, why hasn't the U.S.???? We have the land to grow food safely.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque* 
I honestly just don't think people really realize it. And even if they do, they don't have the money to completely avoid GMO and so get despondent and just don't bother. Thats where I am at this point - I don't have the money or the time to completely avoid GMO (time because that would involve driving an hour each way to a grocery store w/ organic foods... our local ones have a few things, but not anywhere close to a decent selection), and as a result I've just gotten to the point where I try not to think about it. I just don't have the time, energy, or money to avoid it and thinking about it makes me feel bad... so I don't.









I can't afford to buy all organic, even though I'd like to. Sometimes, I get really bummed out about it. But, I've given it a lot of thought, and decided to continue to buy organic when I can. Any reduction in the GMO, pesticide, etc. load for me and my family is a plus...but every organic item I buy also adds to the total purchasing of organics that's happening. The more we support organic food, the more organic food there is. Just do what you can. I figure something is better than nothing, yk?


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

Oh, i agree completely storm bride. I buy whatever I can organic whenever I get the chance. I just don't stress about all the stuff that I just can't buy organic - canned tomatoes, pasta, whole wheat flour, pizza sauce, canned mushrooms & peaches & pineapple, broccoli, veggie dip, onions, potatoes, oranges, apples (I can occasionally get decent organic apples, but mostly not), etc.


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## mambera (Sep 29, 2009)

Honestly I vastly prefer a GM plant that produces a biologically occurring pesticide to one that's been sprayed with a synthetic pesticide.

I don't think it even makes sense to talk about 'GMO food' as some kind of bloc. The safety and utility of the food depends on the gene you put into it.

I think the big concern for most GMO crops is more of an environmental-impact one - eg 'super-crops' resistant to local bugs taking over the local flora - and less of an issue for the health of the consumer.

The article about the possibility of increasing crop yields by improving on current organic methods is interesting. If that is true it definitely makes more sense than putting our energy into more GMOs. But it goes against much of what I've read about this topic. Most sources say exclusively organic methods are never going to be able to sustain 6.5 billion people.


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## ILoveMyBabyBird (Sep 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blumooned* 
Thank you for starting this thread!
I guess I'm one of the ones who just didn't know! And I do know a lot about why one should eat organic/all natural, but GMO wasn't on my radar. I do know they're bad, but wasn't aware they were so prevalent in our food.
So, what are the main GM foods?
Corn
Soy
Canola
What else??
If I just look for non-GM of these, am I OK? Oh, and then the meat that was fed this stuff, too!
Ugh, why does food shopping have to be so complicated!?!?!









this link http://www.wikihow.com/Avoid-Genetically-Modified-Foods

show that sugar rice, beets and cotton round out the top 6 most likely to be gmo, so guess that means buy sugar made from cane, and for cotton: buy less clothes, more organic cotton and more second hand, and rice, ugh that's not what i want to hear,...

For me it's all about the labels, i am trying to get rid of the hfcs, bht laden, msg foods from the cupboard and trying to stick to more whole foods, fresh foods that don't need lots of extra enhancers or preservatives.

and as for the arguement that we need gmo to feed the world, um no that's not what is happening, what is happening is we are overfeeding americans and i don't many people starving in developing countries are seeing much of our gmo corn, no that is in the stomaches of americans, in the form of chips and pop and candy...Not really food imo, but junk...


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

My issue with GMO is that there is zero (or very close to zero) safety testing on these foods. They are allowed as "GRAS" - Generaly Regarded As Safe. IE: Regular (non) gmo corn/soy/whatever is perfectly safe, so gmo corn/soy/whatever must be safe too! No safety testing needed!

So, we're all pumping our bodies full of untested food - we don't *know* that this stuff is safe short, let alone long-term. We're all conducting a huge long-term safety study for big pharma/big ag. And nobody, absolutely nobody, knows what the result will be. Maybe they are all perfectly safe. But maybe their not.

One study done on rats fed gmo potatoes showed increased levels of cancer, vs those fed non-gmo potatoes.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/arti...ticle_4167.cfm


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## karika (Nov 4, 2005)

The testing done shows it is dangerous. The latest study was done in Russia and the results are to be published soon. It is a danger we cannot ignore. The third generation was sterile and had hair growing in their mouths! Here is Mercola's site about this new study, http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-april-24.aspx

To the poster that said we cannot sustain food for the population, I disagree. If people did not eat the unnatural diet they do, we could. Much of the GMO corn, for instance, is grown for feeding animals that are not even meant to ingest grains. Much is grown to make HFCS with, which is a useless ingredient. It is also used as filler in processed foods, all unnecessary uses. The land could be used rotationally as pasture, which would fertilize it and then for rotational, nutritionally dense crops. The situation is that the wrong crops are being grown for the wrong reasons. We can feed the world with organic agriculture.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/organic/110705.cfm
http://nicolasroux.wordpress.com/201...hall-not-pass/
http://www.pambazuka.org/en/category/features/60523

More people having a lawn that grows food is a step in the right direction. Instead of flowers, plant food to harvest. choose organic or heirloom varieties, use natural techniques (no chemical pesticides or herbicides) and you are helping the planet.

A pp talked about the cost. It will cost you now or later. It will cost you now or your children later. There are ways to get organic food anywhere in the country. I will post that next. As for buying produce that is not organic, it is not GMO (only a few veggies are), but it is laden with pesticides that are now linked to ADHD 



 (this is just one link, google it for lots of articles) Pesticides cause neurological damage to humans just as they do to insects.... to be as safe as you can be, at least get the 'dirty dozen' as organic, http://www.organic.org/articles/showarticle/article-214


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## AnnaNova (Nov 2, 2008)

i recently listened to a report on npr stating that there is already plenty of bugs and weeds that are RESISTANT to gmo plants. something that scientists theorized wold happen eventually is already happening and heppening fast. and if that was the reason for gmo plants in the first place - make them resistant to bugs/weeds, then wha's the purpose of having them anyway?
i have recently read 'hope's edge' where the author debunks the myth that there is not enough food in the world, and i agree with what she said:
we have to find a way to create communities that are self sustainable and tap into nature's resources rather than deplete them; we have to think of how our lifestyle and diet affects the rest of the world.
5% of population (which is the united states) uses 20% of world resources, isnt that scary?


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mambera* 
Honestly I vastly prefer a GM plant that produces a biologically occurring pesticide to one that's been sprayed with a synthetic pesticide.

I don't think it even makes sense to talk about 'GMO food' as some kind of bloc. The safety and utility of the food depends on the gene you put into it.


Agreed. Google Norman Borlaug, he pioneered the "Green Revolution," saved the lives of over 1 billion people. That said, from what I understand, his methods and say, Monsanto's methods of creating genetically modified crops were entirely different.


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## karika (Nov 4, 2005)

I find that I have been unable to be as attentive to this thread as I had hoped. I do not understand anyone's willingness to consume these gene structure changes although I also once thought it a 'good thing' and 'necessary'. Then I did the scientific research. When an animal ingests a GMO grain, something is changed in the animal's genes (very simplified speak here). Say fo rinstance, we are referring to the 'terminator' gene most GMO is spliced with. So the animal eats it, then it changes that animals DNA, then it is ingested by a human which also changes the human's DNA. This is a very scary scientific experiment being played out on unknowing parties. India is now leading the way in expulsion of GMO technology and I commend them.

I saw the documentary "Life Running Out of Control" yesterday. Here is a google link to the entire documentary


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## christianmomof3 (Mar 11, 2005)

I am learning about all of these things and it is really scarey and it is difficult to find the right foods or know which ones are or are not healthy.

For example, peaches are on the "dirty dozen" list. But it is said that locally grown foods may be ok. Right now it is peach season and not only the farmer's markets - which I cannot go to every week because they have limited hours often when I am working, but right now local grocery stores are all carrying "locally grown" peaches. Are those peaches ok since they are "locally grown"? How do I know?

And it is hard to find good organic fresh produce anywhere and I live right near a Whole Foods grocery store and other stores that carry some organics, but still, usually the locally grown produce and conventional produce is fresher and better looking than the old, limp looking overpriced organic produce. When I do find organic produce that looks good I get it, but it is so much more expensive. And is all corn bad? Right now, corn on the cob is 10 cents an ear. That is awfully cheap and we are on a very limited income. I did go to a store that carries only organic produce a few weeks ago, but then I had to spend extra time and gas money to get there and still a lot of their produce is limp and not fresh looking, and I bought two ears of organic corn for 75 cents an ear. It was delicious! I wish I had gotten more. But that is a huge price difference.

As far as lettuce goes, the only "organic" lettuce I usually find is the ones in the plastic boxes that have been shipped from who knows where and not sure how old it is, but it is usually ok.

I love bell peppers and have never seen an organic one anywhere I don't think.

I do hope that we can get stricter laws passed so that it will be easier for us to get healthy food.


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## MelissaAHM (Jan 12, 2008)

I try to avoid GMO like the plaque.
I would say our diet is 90% GMO free. We don't have that much 'organic' around here too - but it takes changing your diet to avoid it.
Cottonseed oil is GMO too...So anything on your 'food labels' that says partially hydrogenated soybean oil or cottonseed oil is GMO.

Produce isn't GMO - so thats not a concern - Yet.

The only produce thats GMO is Papaya from Hawaii, and some crooked neck squash and zucchini.

I think GMO is a problem in processed foods - it's hidden in the ingredients label as mentioned above. I believe the easiest way to avoid GMO is to cook at home. Produce is pretty much alright (GMO speaking). Grains is another story - to avoid GMO you would have to avoid bread, and pasta. This were I have a hard time. Bread is the one GMO product I buy. With 5 kids we eat lots of sandwiches and I havent found a bread alternative I like yet. We dont use as much bread as we used tothough - we've switched to Eziekel (bread). They are tortillas made of spelt and lentils. For baking we just avoid flour. I find too, going gluten free you can avoid some GMO.

It can be discouraging to avoid GMO but it can be done without spending a lot of money - it just takes changing your tastes.
Instead of cereal, eat eggs, fresh fruit, smoothies, or left of dinner.
For dinner instead of using rice use couscous (there is a organic brand at the store that isnt expensive.
For snacks we buy 'Annies' cheese crackers ect.

I am very passionate about learning everything I can about GMO food,and therefore learning ways to avoid it.
I do know GMO food is detrimental to your bodies cells. There is evidence it could lead to 3rd generation sterility. Which if they are correct (the scientists who have studied this based on animal studies) our great grandchildren will be infertile. Maybe not 100% of the population but a majority that have eaten the GMO foods. Some 'conspiracy theorists' have even screamed this is a form of population control. the sterility experiments were done on cattle/rats. This was true in 'all' animals tested. The question remains what about us??? We have yet to see since GMO has only been around since approx 1996/1997.
Sterility/Cell damage is only the beginning -GMO causes a lot of problems. One study on rats is rats fed a GMO diet the male rats had smaller/ blueish testicles. (I'm guessing deprived of oxygen). The rats fed a NonGMO diet had normal pinkish testicles. I could go on and on the damage done to these animals.
I won't be a guinea pig nor will my children.

For excellent info on GMO go to Mercolas website then type in 'GMO' he has all the latest articles and studies on this food.

I'm not sure if I can post this (maybe the link)?
but I have a website were you can print up a GMO Shopping Guide. It's on a standard 8 x 10 printout you fold up like a brochure. So you can take it to the store - fits perfectly in your purse. That way as you shop you can avoid GMO. It lists the brands that use GMO ingredients. Like snacks, salad dressings, salsa, peanut butter, canned food, cereals, ect. I use this and it takes the stress out of searching for GMO foods. For instance you can still buy salsa and salad dressing but change brands.

I could go on and on I just want people to wake up and understand the danger this has on us and future generations.


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## MelissaAHM (Jan 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karika;15584903
- When researchers at Purdue ran a computer simulation on what would happen if the altered fish being released now (the film is dated 2005) bred with the wild population. There model was 60000 wild fish infiltrated by only 60 altered salmon. The entire population was extinct in 10 generations, which is only a few years when speaking of fish. This corroborates the Russian findings about the mice fed GMO soy becoming sterile in only a few generations. This is a global plan of sterilization being played out IMO.

I hope to devote more time to breaking this down scientifically by product to show why this 'technology' is a death sentence to humans and all other life on the planet. Visit the Center For Food Safety to learn more. [url*
http://truefoodnow.org/?CFID=24186240&CFTOKEN=35275237[/url]











This IS extremely scary and I don't understand why more people aren't concerned.


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## mambera (Sep 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karika* 
When an animal ingests a GMO grain, something is changed in the animal's genes (very simplified speak here). Say fo rinstance, we are referring to the 'terminator' gene most GMO is spliced with. So the animal eats it, then it changes that animals DNA, then it is ingested by a human which also changes the human's DNA.

That is Non. Sense. Nonsense.









I agree that Monsanto et al are not making the best use of GM technology but the problem lies with the agribusiness model, not with the technology itself, which has the potential to be used either for great harm or for great good.


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## MelissaAHM (Jan 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mambera* 
That is Non. Sense. Nonsense.









I agree that Monsanto et al are not making the best use of GM technology but the problem lies with the agribusiness model, not with the technology itself, which has the potential to be used either for great harm or for great good.

I respectively disagree...Genetically Modified technology hasn't been beneficial. GMO foods are detrimental - it IS NOT the way to feed the growing population. Because it isn't yielding larger crops - GM Soy decreased yields 20% compared to NonGM soy.
I believe GM food/crops are being pushed down our throats in the name of preventing world hunger when really the opposite is happening. In the end it will work out for Monsanto...there will be less hungry people because there will be less people.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...ied-Foods.aspx

This link above sums up GMO in a few paragraphs and it's straight forward.


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## mambera (Sep 29, 2009)

Whether a genetic alteration is dangerous depends on the actual informational content of the gene, and the use to which its product is put.

Saying genetic modification is dangerous is like saying writing is dangerous. OK some writing can be dangerous (like information on how to make a fertilizer bomb), other writing can be really useful and helpful.

Running around yelling "Writing is dangerous! Writing is dangerous!" just sounds illiterate and poorly informed.

It's not the bare fact of an altered gene. It's what is IN THE GENE that matters.


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## karika (Nov 4, 2005)

@mambera
I stated it very simply so as to make it easy to understand. When an animal eats a GM grain that is bred with the terminator gene, the dna of that animal then takes on the characteristics of that terminator gene. This has been proven by the independent research available, of which there is very little since most scientists are connected in some way to Gig Agra, Big Pharma, or Big Govt.
You are what you eat is an old adage, and one that is very true. If you are ingesting grains bred with pesticides or herbicide resistance, your body takes on that quality. This is ancient knowledge. In Chinese medicine one learns of Chi and energies associated with everything, including foods. This is a way that can be corroborated by looking at the atoms of food or by examining it as a whole for its 'energy'. They are the same thing. Ingesting these foreign bits of DNA is leading to a large epidemic of illness in many ways. Mysterious illnesses as well as familiar ones are rising exponentially.
This is in reference to the honeybees and GMO
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=8436
@christianmomof3
Organic is not the same thing as non GMO necessarily. The peaches that are not organic have not been genetically modified that we know of. The only produce that has been genetically modified that I know of is papaya (as melissa mentioned) tomatoes, corn and pineapple (mostly the hawaii pineapple). The danger of produce that is not organic is the pesticide load. The dirty dozen refers to the pesticide load. If there are only conventionally grown peaches available, I would not buy peaches. The 'cheapness' of the corn is deceptive. You will pay now for organic corn (frozen if that is all they have) or later in health costs for the conventional GM corn that was ingested (most of the time in the form of HFCS which is ALL produced from GMO corn). I mostly avoid corn altogether as much of it has been compromised by GMO. I also avoid soy, canola, wheat, (new)cotton (I have many old cotton things). Those crops have been overtaken by GMO at about 98% or higher.

I feel so strongly about making sure what we eat is safe that I would move if alternatives where not available. There are shipping companies like Azure Standard that do drops all over the US. However, by changing what I eat I have made a large impact. By eating very little meat, I have extra money for the organic produce. I buy organic dried beans in bulk, nuts and seeds for my protein intake. I am still eating eggs (mostly in baked goods like pancakes) and ethically, organically raised chicken breast was still on menu last week, but I may be done with that too. I have been gluten/ casein (dairy) and soy free for a few months now and that really limits the possibility of ingesting GMO there. I am also canola free. This means I have no 'spread' for potatoes or rice, but I have learned to like them with coconut oil.

After watching the documentary I quoted yesterday I realize this- the future depends on us not eating animals or their byproducts and learning what 'wild' plants are edible. By learning to ecoharvest and teaching it to our children, we can ensure they will have a means to feed themselves when the bottom falls out for the foods consumed in today's world. By returning to the roots of our nomadic ways we can find a way to adapt to what has been unleashed. I still have an organic garden and still shop at the store. This is a new ideal I have to learn to eat from the wild. I do make pine needle tea in the winter already though for extra vitamin c (one cup has more vitamin c than 5 cups of orange juice)

okay i am rambling now. have a lovely day! learn about indigenous edible plants and educate us all


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## Otto (Oct 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karika* 
I stated it very simply so as to make it easy to understand. When an animal eats a GM grain that is bred with the terminator gene, the dna of that animal then takes on the characteristics of that terminator gene.

All I can infer from this is that you're saying foods produced from GURT seeds have "bad vibrations." Animals don't readily gobble up functional genes from food.


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## mambera (Sep 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karika* 
@mambera
I stated it very simply so as to make it easy to understand. When an animal eats a GM grain that is bred with the terminator gene, the dna of that animal then takes on the characteristics of that terminator gene.

No. It does not. That's like saying you can improve your vocabulary by eating a dictionary.

(If it were so easy to modify DNA it wouldn't require so much technological effort to produce GM organisms in the first place!)


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## MelissaAHM (Jan 12, 2008)

-For those interested...

Here is how to tell if your fruit/vegetables are conventionally grown, organic, or GMO. Look at the sticker on the produce.

Here's how it works:

For conventionally grown fruit, (grown with chemicals inputs), the PLU code on the sticker consists of four numbers. Organically grown fruit has a five-numeral PLU prefaced by the number 9. Genetically engineered (GM) fruit has a five-numeral PLU prefaced by the number 8.

A conventionally grown banana would be: 4011

An organic banana would be: 94011

A genetically engineered (GE or GMO) banana would be: 84011

I know avoiding GMO can be hard especially since its cheap & the economy we are in - but like 'karika - above poster' we just eat less meat. You wouldn't believe the amount of money you save when you buy less frozen pre-prepared food, meat, junk food, sweets.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

Yeah, I'm not in favor of GMO foods either, but modiefing the dna of plants and animals just isn't as easy as your making it out to be karika. DNA just doesn't work like that. My dna does *NOT* change everytime I eat something, and neither does a cow or horse or pig or chicken's dna. We can breed for certain traits, but we can't simply have an animal eat something and thereby change its dna. It just doesn't work like that.


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## MelissaAHM (Jan 12, 2008)

I don't know enough about genes and DNA to have a discussion about this...but it's very interesting and I wanted to look into it further.

This is what I found.

"The embryo offspring of GM soy-fed mice had altered DNA functioning"

(So if I'm understanding this correctly...it changes the way your DNA acts.)

Also...
In the only human feeding study ever published on genetically modified foods, seven volunteers ate so-called Roundup-ready soybeans. These are soybeans that have herbicide-resistant genes inserted into them in order to survive being sprayed with otherwise deadly doses of Roundup herbicide.

In three of the seven volunteers, the gene inserted into the soy transferred into the DNA of their intestinal bacteria, and continued to function long after they stopped eating the GM soy!

It's discussed in the article below.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...interview.aspx

Again, I don't know much about how DNA works if it doesn't change it - it does seem to alter it's functioning - which is detrimental.


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## mambera (Sep 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelissaAHM* 
"The embryo offspring of GM soy-fed mice had altered DNA functioning"

That statement is extremely vague. It could mean anything and doesn't say enough for me to determine whether it makes sense or not.

Quote:

In three of the seven volunteers, the gene inserted into the soy transferred into the DNA of their intestinal bacteria, and continued to function long after they stopped eating the GM soy!
Yup, bacteria can swap DNA. It's pretty amazing and is a lot of the reason why they can evolve so quickly. Animals and other multicellular organisms can't do that.

By the way, regarding Roundup Ready crops - really I would imagine that the megadoses of Roundup being used on the crops would be much more detrimental than the Roundup Ready gene itself. I'd have no qualms about eating most genetically modified organisms but I'd be really concerned about eating huge doses of pesticides.

It's a great example of the stupid and harmful uses to which Monsanto is putting a potentially helpful technology.


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## Otto (Oct 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelissaAHM* 
In three of the seven volunteers, the gene inserted into the soy transferred into the DNA of their intestinal bacteria, and continued to function long after they stopped eating the GM soy!

This appears to be the Jeffrey Smith spin on a study by Trudy Netherwood. The study itself states that "It should be noted that these bacteria contained only a fragment of the [herbicide tolerant] gene, the full-length gene was not detected in these microbes." Without the functional gene, there's no protein, and nothing that could "continue[] to function." (See, e.g., here.)


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## pixiepunk (Mar 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karika* 
@mambera

@christianmomof3
Organic is not the same thing as non GMO necessarily. The peaches that are not organic have not been genetically modified that we know of. The only produce that has been genetically modified that I know of is papaya (as melissa mentioned) tomatoes, corn and pineapple (mostly the hawaii pineapple). The danger of produce that is not organic is the pesticide load. The dirty dozen refers to the pesticide load. *If there are only conventionally grown peaches available, I would not buy peaches.* The 'cheapness' of the corn is deceptive. You will pay now for organic corn (frozen if that is all they have) or later in health costs for the conventional GM corn that was ingested (most of the time in the form of HFCS which is ALL produced from GMO corn). I mostly avoid corn altogether as much of it has been compromised by GMO. I also avoid soy, canola, wheat, (new)cotton (I have many old cotton things). Those crops have been overtaken by GMO at about 98% or higher.

I feel so strongly about making sure what we eat is safe that I would move if alternatives where not available. There are shipping companies like Azure Standard that do drops all over the US. However, by changing what I eat I have made a large impact. By eating very little meat, I have extra money for the organic produce. I buy organic dried beans in bulk, nuts and seeds for my protein intake. I am still eating eggs (mostly in baked goods like pancakes) and ethically, organically raised chicken breast was still on menu last week, but I may be done with that too. I have been gluten/ casein (dairy) and soy free for a few months now and that really limits the possibility of ingesting GMO there. I am also canola free. This means I have no 'spread' for potatoes or rice, but I have learned to like them with coconut oil.

After watching the documentary I quoted yesterday I realize this- *the future depends on us not eating animals or their byproducts and learning what 'wild' plants are edible*. By learning to ecoharvest and teaching it to our children, we can ensure they will have a means to feed themselves when the bottom falls out for the foods consumed in today's world. By returning to the roots of our nomadic ways we can find a way to adapt to what has been unleashed. I still have an organic garden and still shop at the store. This is a new ideal I have to learn to eat from the wild. I do make pine needle tea in the winter already though for extra vitamin c (one cup has more vitamin c than 5 cups of orange juice)

okay i am rambling now. have a lovely day! learn about indigenous edible plants and educate us all

i don't think it is good advice to say "if it's not labeled organic, don't buy it." Most local producers can't afford to get certified organic by the FDA, and the FDA has watered down their organic standard so much that it doesn't mean what it used to anyway. It is more important to *ask the farmer* about his/her growing practices. Easier to do, of course, at the farmer's market than at the grocery store, but not impossible - the store should be able to tell you where the produce comes from if it is, indeed, local. and then you call the farm and you ask. Where I live, just as an example, there is not a single farmer who sells at the farmer's market who uses any chemical fertilizers or pesticides. but not a single farmer has anything certified organic either. Many, many small farmers do things sustainably and naturally and do not use pesticides or chemical fertilizers. You just have to ask. Most farmers will be thrilled to talk your ear off about how they grow their food, and if they don't want to tell you, then assume they use chemical fertilizers and pesticides and move to the next farmer.

I would personally *much* rather buy local produce that isn't certified (but raised naturally/sustainably) than to buy organic produce from a foreign country - especially because organic doesn't mean the same thing in all countries, and while it would be nice to think that the US polices other countries to make sure they are conforming to our standard, they don't. and that's to say nothing of the amount of fossil fuel required to transport those organic grapes or whatever from Argentina to your super market.

as for consuming meat, it's the same thing. meat itself is not problematic, IMO - we are omnivores and we are meant to consume meat. what we are not meant to consume is meat from animals eating a biologically inappropriate diet (ie ruminants eating corn, chickens eating a vegetarian diet, etc) living in cages on concrete floors with no access to sunlight, fresh air or exercise. these meats are nutritionally void, from animals that would have dropped dead from a litany of diseases had they not been slaughtered for our consumption. and whether you believe in the transfer of energy or karma or not, i personally don't have any desire to eat something that spent its entire life suffering. but depending on where you live, there are often lots of options for buying pastured meat from happy animals eating biologically appropriate diet who spend their lives outdoors where animals should be. and i have absolutely no problem whatsoever eating meat like that. in fact i happily do so on a regular basis.

If you haven't read it, I highly recommend The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan. He talks a lot about how unsustainable industrial agriculture is, and visits Joel Salatin's Polyface farms - a sustainable farm that uses all natural practices, and which is probably the most productive farm by-the-acre in the entire country (if not the world). Salatin's model is what we're trying to do on a smaller scale here on our homestead, and it feels fantastic to slowly but surely become more and more self-sufficient, and to be able to feel completely comfortable eating the meat, eggs, dairy and produce because we grow it ourselves. obviously not everyone can do it themselves, but finding a family farm like ours and supporting it not only speaks loudly against the industrial food chain, it nourishes your family and helps keep local, sustainable agriculture alive and nourishes our planet so that future generations will be able to thrive here too.

for local sources of safe, nourishing food, check out www.eatwild.com www.localharvest.org and www.realmilk.com


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## christianmomof3 (Mar 11, 2005)

So HFCS is GMO but fresh corn on the cob that is conventionally grown is not? Is that correct?
And what about grains? Are all grains now GMO? I like to buy my own grains and grind them in the vitamix to make bread and I usually get organic grains, but not always. If it is not organic does that mean it is GMO? That is why they really need a labeling law because I don't know how to know when I am buying it if it is GMO or not.
I also get organic flour to make bread from, but we buy store bought bread as well. I try to avoid breads with HFCS in them but are all the grains in store bought breads bad?


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

Christianmomof3, afaik there is not yet a commonly grown GMO wheat variety on the market, so most of your wheat breads/pasta/etc should be OK still. Virtually all non-organic corn, soy and canola are GMO, which is the #1 reason to buy organic corn/soy/canola, IMO. However, AFAIK there is not a gmo sweet corn yet on the market.

Personally, I buy (and *LOVE*) bread from Rudi's Organic Bakery - we especially love their "Honey Whole Wheat Bread" - its delicious!! Even my DH who's a former white bread lover, loves the stuff and is a happy convert









Honestly, I try to buy organic _when it is available, good looking and reasonably priced_. If its not, I buy conventional and don't feel too badly. Because, IMHO, eating conventional produce is *FAR* better than simply not eating produce. And while some of you live in big cities and have wonderful whole foods/traders joe/etc to goto for all your organic needs... many of us don't. We garden (not much this year, but usually







), we hunt & fish, and order through UNFI co-op/buying club. But I still buy conventional cheese (Cabot actually - for which I am *ecstatic* that its available to me!!), conventional cereal (yes yes yes, I know some of you think this is like 'the devil' but whatever), a mix of conventional WW and organic WW pasta, and various canned goods (mostly organic except for canned fruit - I've been buying sunkist peaches as they come in *GLASS* and are in pear juice!!) among other things.

100% organic is a nice ideal. Unfortuantly due to availability/budget concerns its simply not an achievable goal for most people. Getting up on a high horse and declaring that if you are doing any less you are hurting yourself/your children is really alarmist and totally uneccasary.


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## jtsmom (Nov 19, 2001)

I am thrilled that there are other people in the world who are concerned about this. I have recently made changes in our diet, and one of the big reasons is to avoid gmos. Sometimes I think I'm the only person in the world who cares. I am not at all smart enough to know much about dna and all the scientific talk, but the bottom line, to me, is that genetically modifying any type of organism is wrong. It goes against nature, and I don't believe it is something God wants us to do.

Pixiepunk, do you have a blog? I would be interested in hearing more of what you are doing on your farm.









I am also finding grocery shopping to be complicated. Sometimes I wonder if I am crazy to even care. I'm doing my best with the funds I have available. I try to remind myself that it's good enough.


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## christianmomof3 (Mar 11, 2005)

I am also becoming really concerned the more I learn about this and also more confused. Is anything with corn and soy in it GMO even if it is "organic"? What about Whole Foods 369 brand items that contain soy and corn oil? Is it GMO? What about organic processed foods? Yes I know it is best to stay away from processed foods, but we are not there yet and I think it may be healthier to at least substitute organic ones for non-organic ones as we try to move away from them.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

If its organic it can't be GMO. If its not organic it almost certainly is gmo - that is unless the corn/soy oil/whatever is specifically labled 'organic' and/or "non-gmo" its gmo.


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## Spirit Dancer (Dec 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque* 
If its organic it can't be GMO. If its not organic it almost certainly is gmo - that is unless the corn/soy oil/whatever is specifically labled 'organic' and/or "non-gmo" its gmo.

Are you sure? Here in Canada organic certified corn chips ARE gmo! I called several companies and this is what they told me.


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## Sayward (Nov 16, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spirit Dancer* 
Are you sure? Here in Canada organic certified corn chips ARE gmo! I called several companies and this is what they told me.

Yes, in America organic definitely means non-GMO.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

Honestly I vastly prefer a GM plant that produces a biologically occurring pesticide to one that's been sprayed with a synthetic pesticide.

I don't think it even makes sense to talk about 'GMO food' as some kind of bloc. The safety and utility of the food depends on the gene you put into it.

I think the big concern for most GMO crops is more of an environmental-impact one - eg 'super-crops' resistant to local bugs taking over the local flora - and less of an issue for the health of the consumer.
ITA with this. I am far more concerned about the environmental and logistical consequences of GMO crops than about effects on my health. There is a lot of misinformation being thrown around in this thread.


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## karika (Nov 4, 2005)

If you still think GMO is safe, If you still eat meat that has been fed GMO, Or if you want to learn as much as you can, read this article.

http://www.naturalnews.com/029325_Mo...deception.html

"In India, animals graze on cotton plants after harvest. But when shepherds let sheep graze on Bt cotton plants, thousands died. Investigators said preliminary evidence "strongly suggests that the sheep mortality was due to a toxin. . . . most probably Bt-toxin."(60) In one small study, all sheep fed Bt cotton plants died; those fed natural plants remained healthy."

If you do not read the above article in its entirety, you are not getting all the facts.

I even went so far as to order organic cotton undies for my toddler. The happenings being allowed are like from a science fiction movie, but its real. I will protect our health and the health of my progeny by staying away from GMO in all facets. They are not safe.

I have been unable to give this thread the scientific jargon I intended to. I feel many are not even reading the links I put up. I cannot fret over it. I am here to wake others up to the danger, what they choose to do with the information is their path.

It is my opinion that is GMO feed is continued to feed the animals of slaughter, they will become extinct in our lifetimes. If GMO is continued, most plants people regard as food will become poison or extinct. I saw a special about GMO trees beginning to be thought of. Ah, here it is... hosted by DAvid Suzuki

http://www.freespeech.org/taxonomy/term/3516/all

I hope to one day read this thread and formulate some posts which will not be thought of as 'stupid' due to my not wording things correctly. I care about you. I used to believe in GMO technology. I used to believe it was necessary to 'feed the masses'. It is not. The masses are not being fed because of completely different reasons, which are related to greed. A species must live within its parameters. Starvation in Africa is directly related to earlier changes made within the country by Europeans. It is inevitable. Feeding a greater population will result in a greater population. (I am rereading Ishmael http://www.pantheist.net/society/ish...ok_review.html .... this is another thread though)

Living with the land instead of against it, trying to conquer it, allows us to have a life of peace. We will return to that way of living. The way of native peoples is the way of living with the land.


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## karika (Nov 4, 2005)

http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o...ction_KEY=2049


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## Otto (Oct 19, 2009)

Quote:

1. Novel proteins lead to novel, and potentially lethal disease and disfunction, including destruction of CD4 cells, often diagnoses as HIV/AIDS
I'm not sure that a Dr. Rima screed (for those not familiar, she also believes that the Illuminati's "Great Culling" of 90% of the population is nigh; some suspect she's actually an NWO "counterintelligence agent") really sheds a great deal of light on the issue.


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## karika (Nov 4, 2005)

http://www.freespeech.org/video/silent-forest

In case you haven't seen this yet- you should. Hosted by Dr. David Suzuki... It explains more about Monsanto and the devastation that will occur if GE trees are allowed.

For those of you that wondered what I meant about the person eating the GMO taking on some characteristics of the GMO gene... I am speaking about horizontal gene transfer. It occurs on a microscopic level in bacteria. There is bacteria in soil and inside living beings. Others are more gifted than I at explaining it so that others can comprehend it, that is why I pass on links.

It is my scientific opinion that those that continue to eat foods that contain the terminator gene, genes from unrelated species, and genes that are resistant to round up and other chemicals will become more and more ill, pass on sterility to their young, have odd maladies such as Morgellon's Disease and other new things we have not seen, as well as continued increase in diabetes, cancer, etc.... It is a choice we can make, to allow ourselves to become part of the plan of the elite and depopulate, or we can decide to become more self sustaining, and also vote with our purchases what we think is safe.

Nature knew what it is doing and still does, interfering with what is natural will only bring destruction IMO.

gg hope this makes sense, will read the thread later


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## catnip (Mar 25, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sayward* 
Yes, in America organic definitely means non-GMO.

Well, sort of. My biggest objection to GMO crops is that it is very difficult to contain "genetic drift" and cross pollination.

If we _really_ wanted to get out our tinfoil hats and play the X-Files conspiracy game, we could wonder if CCD is somebody's way of containing genetic drift. (I don't think this is the case. *This is something I just made up.* Please DO NOT go reposting this as fact somewhere.)


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

thanks for the info and thread.

Ill never understand how anyone is truly ok with GMO foods.

its just not natural. in any way.

gmo "whole foods" are not whole foods. if you are eating GMO foods you are NOT eating whole foods. at all.

for that reason alone, I do not eat GMO foods.

organic crops will never feed 6.5 million people hell bent on continuing to eat oreos and doritos and chugging down mountaindew all day... no.

organic crops may not even be able to feed 6.5 million people eating a "natural whole foods diet" either... because most of that diet is grain centric.. which in itself is not natural... but thats another thread I suppose.

organic crops shouldnt have to feed the world in the same way the world is being fed now!

if people were forced to start eating locally, seasonally and had to start growing some of their own food and taking more responsibility of their own diets- the world would be juuuust fine.


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## DarkPassenger (Dec 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karika* 
http://www.freespeech.org/video/silent-forest

In case you haven't seen this yet- you should. Hosted by Dr. David Suzuki... It explains more about Monsanto and the devastation that will occur if GE trees are allowed.

For those of you that wondered what I meant about the person eating the GMO taking on some characteristics of the GMO gene... I am speaking about horizontal gene transfer. It occurs on a microscopic level in bacteria. There is bacteria in soil and inside living beings. Others are more gifted than I at explaining it so that others can comprehend it, that is why I pass on links.

Horizontal gene transfer takes place. Yes it does. Traits of GMO are not necessarily more scary or worse than non GMO. A gene is a gene is a gene. Where did this hysteria come from? Do you think every trait in "Actual Organic" matter that passes your lips _is_ desirable to your make up? Does it even matter? The transfer is so much more complicated than that. You do not literally become what you eat. I mean sure, the molecules local to us obviously are the ones that react with the ones we call "us", but that is getting flat out ridiculous.

How far do you want to take the nonsense?

Quote:

It is my scientific opinion that those that continue to eat foods that contain the terminator gene, genes from unrelated species, and genes that are resistant to round up and other chemicals will become more and more ill, pass on sterility to their young, have odd maladies such as Morgellon's Disease and other new things we have not seen, as well as continued increase in diabetes, cancer, etc.... It is a choice we can make, to allow ourselves to become part of the plan of the elite and depopulate, or we can decide to become more self sustaining, and also vote with our purchases what we think is safe.

Nature knew what it is doing and still does, interfering with what is natural will only bring destruction IMO.

gg hope this makes sense, will read the thread later
I am sorry, it doesn't make sense yet.


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## Bettercare (Aug 10, 2010)

Hey thanks for the information karika....read all the articles....and really helpful for all those who just follow anything blindly


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## lovbeingamommy (Jun 17, 2007)

thanks *karika* for all the informative links you've posted here







. IMO people should make an "informed" choice since they do have to live with the consequences.


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## beckybird (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Otto*
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure that a Dr. Rima screed (for those not familiar, she also believes that the Illuminati's "Great Culling" of 90% of the population is nigh; some suspect she's actually an NWO "counterintelligence agent") really sheds a great deal of light on the issue.


What is so hard to believe about that video? Wasn't there an attempt at a "Great Culling" just a few decades ago? (The Holocaust) History. Fact. But, we are just crazy for fearing the possibility that history might repeat itself?

And by the way, GMO's are bad. Here's a video I want to pass on...


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## christianmomof3 (Mar 11, 2005)

Are GMO foods the reason or one of the main reasons for the huge rise in food allergies - specifically peanuts and gluten?


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## BabyFireFly (Jun 20, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *christianmomof3*
> 
> Are GMO foods the reason or one of the main reasons for the huge rise in food allergies - specifically peanuts and gluten?


I was just reading an article that was linking (as a possibility) GMO's with food allergies that are often suffered by children with autism. My stepson is autistic and has sensitivities to certain foods such as tomatoes - which used to be the poster vegetable for GM foods - but I have read that the GM tomatoes are no longer being cultivated commercially in the US.

I'm glad that this thread resurfaced as it is something that is of interest to me, as it pertains to both my human family and my "equine family" who consume large rations of feed based mostly on corn, soy and sugar beet.


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## Sabra22 (Oct 30, 2012)

I hope this answers your question. http://truefoodnow.org/shoppers-guide/


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## MissCee (Oct 22, 2011)

I don't have anything to really add, but thank you so much for this thread and all the info you've been posting. I know GMO is terrible for you, but I never realized exactly HOW terrible.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MelissaAHM*
> 
> -For those interested...
> 
> ...


this has been proven as an urban myth. there is nothing on the bar code which has anything to do with GMO.

i think someone posted that link which has info about GMO.

but you know what. its pretty easy to spot GMO. corn. high fructose corn syrup. its in EVERYTHING!!! avoid processed foods and focus on whole foods and watch where your whole foods come from.


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## spreadkindness (Aug 4, 2012)

Everyone please watch this video before its free viewing period expires Tuesday! http://geneticroulettemovie.com/


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