# teenage sex



## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

in todays world should abstinence be the way?

or should one have the right sex - for lack of a better word. good friendship, been dating for a while and then have it rather than one night stands or under duress.

what do you feel you wish you had known as a teen to make a better decision?

i've just been reading a bunch of books on teens and some of them came down really hard on teen sex and pregnancy.

with teen pregnancy my personal gripe is that it is always coloured with a black hue, downfall of the mom, ruined life. is teen pregnancy really that bad. enough for the education folks to completely ban it out of teenage hood?


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## zebra15 (Oct 2, 2009)

I don't think there is 'one answer'. But I don't believe abstinence teaching is the only way to go. I think you need to prepare kids for everything. You need to prepare both *boys and* girls for the consequences of their actions and how to take preventative measures. You need to teach kids how to access birth control BEFORE considering having sex. Just because the girls says shes on the pill doesn't give the boy carte blanche.

My parents were totally into abstinence, when I was in college it was like someone let go of a rubber band. Even though I lived at home I managed to get into plenty of 'trouble'. Oh I was able to give off that sweet and innocent appearance but trust me...I was anything but.

I wish I had know that sex didn't equal skank. And that yes, normal kids could talk to their mothers about things. But then, I was living in the land of dysfunction.

Yes teen pregnancy is really 'that bad'. The younger the mom gets pregnant that much harder it is for her to finish high school. That much more difficult for her to get any post secondary school training. If the baby is sick, mom has to stay home and miss classes, most times dad is long gone. Child support is minimal those first years of the baby's life. High school is demanding with out being responsible for a baby.

I think sex education begins long before the teen years. Sex education is a continual dialogue that begins sometime between birth and the toddler years. The dialogue begins with body parts, 'keep your hands to yourself', stranger danger, and goes in an age appropriate direction.


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## nerissav (Oct 14, 2012)

For me, I don't think teen pregnancy is all that bad. I know that people can finish school and continue on with their lives. I think family support is critical though. If they don't feel like they can handle it - there is always adoption.

I had sex as a teenager and in many ways I regret it. I don't feel like it was an awful and horrible thing, but the guys who I had sex with didn't respect me and probably just were driven by hormones. I think part of waiting a little while is that you learn that sex is about respect and love, not just the physical act of it. I wish I had known that!

So, I do think people should wait a healthy amount of time before having sex as a teenager. I don't expect my child(ren) to be abstinent, as it is Denmark, but I would hope for them that they waited a very long time after beginning to date someone to get in bed with them. I'd also like them to engage in the principle of courtship (not dating men that they wouldn't marry and having a strict timeline on which engagement and marriage will take place by) and be very demanding in terms of respect with their partners. Sometimes it seems like the one night stand is the first date here and I don't think that sets a healthy foundation for any relationship, especially a teenage one.

I think teenagers should get comprehensive sexual education and be taught everything about their bodies and the sexual process. I think they need to learn about charting, cervical mucus, risks and benefits associated with some forms of birth control, and really in depth details about STDs. I think you just end up doing them a disservice regardless of whether you feel they should be abstinent until marriage or having sex at 16 if they don't get all the facts in an unbiased fashion.

*zebra15 *I too think sex education starts early and as a natural process of learning about your body. The questions that my daughter asks about babies being in tummies or sexual organs are great natural in roads to having a normal conversation about things.


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## Emaye (May 23, 2008)

I want both my kids to handle sex responsibly and preferably in committed relationships. I want my daughter to have a great relationship with her body and sexuality. The same with my son but men don't seem to have as many problems with body image and figuring out how their particular body orgasms. It is just a simpler process for boys because their bodies are not as complex of a machine as a girls'. Women should learn to seek and own their sexual pleasures. A lot of teenage/young sex ends up being about pleasing boys/men instead of focused on the female partner and that sucks for girls.

That said, I don't mind if my kids slept around later, after they have gotten a handle on the workings of their own bodies. I just think the figuring out stage is much better when it is in a mutually respectful, loving environment -- i.e a committed relationship.

I think teenage pregnancy is awful. Yes yes, some teenage moms go on and do well in life but it is really difficult. And many, many more flounder and get stuck in lives they would not have chosen for themselves. I hope that does not happen to my daughter. I will do anything in my power to prevent it.

I also find it interesting that when teenage pregnancy or any unwanted pregnancy happens, keeping the baby and adoption are the only ones readily discussed. There is also that other option women had fought for, ya know? Abortion. I am baffled as to why it doesn't often come up in these discussions when in reality THAT is also an option, you know?


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meemee*
> 
> in todays world should abstinence be the way?
> 
> ...


I don't believe abstinence is the answer. I don't know what is. Ideally, both parties would be mature, responsible, loving and respectful to each other but what I see and hear about from parents of teens is pretty horrific.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meemee*
> 
> with teen pregnancy my personal gripe is that it is always coloured with a black hue, downfall of the mom, ruined life. is teen pregnancy really that bad. enough for the education folks to completely ban it out of teenage hood?


99.99% of the time, I do think it teen pregnancy is that bad. (I am the daughter of a teen mom.) Where I grew up, a teen pregnancy was the first step toward a life of struggle for many, many reasons.

Emaye - I suspect it isn't that no one discusses/uses that option, they just keep it to themselves because of the social stigma.

I had a pretty good experience as a teen with no regrets. My mom made it her life's mission to make sure I didn't get pregnant so I had her complete support when it came to health care and birth control. She took me to a women's clinic where I had a female doctor who basically approached it as "old enough for sex, old enough to be responsible and make good choices". I also had her permission to take any friend who needed bc, no questions asked. I also dated a truly nice guy (my only partner until college) and he was loving and respectful. These two things combined got me off on the right foot, so to speak.

Sadly, I saw my teen friends make choices that eroded their self esteem, things like letting guys disrepect them, blabbing details to their guy friends, refusing to use condoms, etc. I think girls are more prone to the ugly side of teen sex than boys.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

this is a great article on teen motherhood http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/05/economics-and-culture

i learnt a lot from it. fascinating.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Interesting economic article but (and in my opinion, a huge BUT) the scope is so narrow, they are only examining teens that are already on, as they put it, "a low economic trajectory in life" and saying that no matter what, those girls will continue on that path of poverty with or without with kids so why should we worry about it, nothing is going to change for them anyway?

From the article -

Perhaps we'll be less eager to combat teen motherhood now that we understand that it doesn't much harm the economic prospects *of the young women* most likely to go in for it. My own reaction to this news is to wonder whether it isn't cruel to try to discourage relatively poor teen girls from seeking the comforts of motherhood, if motherhood won't hurt their prospects. If we set aside as ill-founded our paternalistic economic motivations to reduce rates of teen motherhood, only the impulse to discourage the proliferation of those people and/or that culture seems to remain. I'm not comfortable with that. But if we wish to reduce teen motherhood anyway, we ought do more of what has been found to work. So poor young women should have access to birth control, including abortion, at no cost. And welfare transfers to teen moms should be reduced.

They are saying it doesn't hurt the already poor prospects for the mother but it doesn't address the cost to the child(ren) or society at large.

ETA - the comments present interesting points too


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

i started having sex when i was 15. i went down myself and got BC and condoms from the health dept. no one cared what i did growing up and i think a lot of the reason i had sex was because i had self esteem issues and come from an abusive home. by the time i met my x and married him 3 years later i had sex with some 18 guys. i dont necessarily regret it but i think i was trying to use sex with sometimes strangers as a way to feel loved.

i wouldnt want my teens having sex but i think teaching them to have safe sex if that is what they are going to do is more important than abstinence.


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## revolting (Sep 10, 2010)

I got pregnant once at 17 and once at 19. I miscarried at 17. My firstborn is from the pregnancy at 19. It was all with a partner that I started dating at 14 and having sex with at 16. I'm happy with my life. I'm happy with my partner who is the same guy I started dating when I was 14. My kids are doing well. We don't cost society any more than most families. I don't regret my choices about sex or pregnancy during the teen years, even though it's not for everyone or most people.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

I had sex when I was 16- to they guy I had been dating and he was the first boy I was ever in love with. it broke my heart into ten million pieces, and I wasnt prepared for it at all. But who is? No one is "prepared" to get their heart broken, and what better time to have it happen to you the first time than when you *can* lay around in your bedroom and cry for two weeks while listening to every smashing pumpkins album over and over again and eating nothing but rice with sugar on it? I'd have hated to have it happen the first time when I had to go to work and pay the bills to keep the roof over my head. I'd have lost my job, my apartment, and not eaten for two weeks if I hadnt still been living at my moms house.

My sisters both lost their virginity by sleeping with some guy at a party after they graduated high school just because they didnt want to go to college still a virgin. I think having sex while in high school is better than sleeping with someone you barely know just to get it over with.


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## nerissav (Oct 14, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emaye*
> 
> I also find it interesting that when teenage pregnancy or any unwanted pregnancy happens, keeping the baby and adoption are the only ones readily discussed. There is also that other option women had fought for, ya know? Abortion. I am baffled as to why it doesn't often come up in these discussions when in reality THAT is also an option, you know?


It might have been just me that gave just those two options, because they are the only two I believe in personally and the only ones that would be acceptable in my household. What other people do is their own business.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revolting*
> 
> I got pregnant once at 17 and once at 19. I miscarried at 17. My firstborn is from the pregnancy at 19. It was all with a partner that I started dating at 14 and having sex with at 16. I'm happy with my life. I'm happy with my partner who is the same guy I started dating when I was 14. My kids are doing well. We don't cost society any more than most families. I don't regret my choices about sex or pregnancy during the teen years, even though it's not for everyone or most people.


I read something that statistically said that mothers under 22 fair no better than teen mothers. I was 21 when I had my daughter and she wasn't my first pregnancy. I felt perfectly capable of dealing with the situation. My husband is the product of a teen mother and he had a great upbringing. I think people often times judge what they don't know but I am incredibly glad to have a child earlier than most and would have done it sooner if I could have.


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## Emaye (May 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sharlla*
> 
> i started having sex when i was 15. i went down myself and got BC and condoms from the health dept. no one cared what i did growing up and i think a lot of the reason i had sex was because i had self esteem issues and come from an abusive home. by the time i met my x and married him 3 years later i had sex with some 18 guys. i dont necessarily regret it but i think i was trying to use sex with sometimes strangers as a way to feel loved.


I am with you. I would not want my daughter having this kind of sex, not when she is starting out and is developing her self-esteem. These sexual experiences can feel so empty and devoid of pleasure. However, it is not the sleeping around part that bugs me although I know it is a big deal for some people. Sleeping around is fine as long as she has a handle on her sexuality and body and feels empowered to seek and demand her own pleasure. I find that developing this takes time for girls. In the mean time, the potential for emotional devastation is huge.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caneel*
> 
> Interesting economic article but (and in my opinion, a huge BUT) the scope is so narrow, they are only examining teens that are already on, as they put it, "a low economic trajectory in life" and saying that no matter what, those girls will continue on that path of poverty with or without with kids so why should we worry about it, nothing is going to change for them anyway?
> 
> ...


Yes and the already well to do (economically and educationally) have various avenues to help them mitigate their new found circumstances, should they, in the first place find themselves there. This article is talking about those who are already doomed to low economic trajectory -- basically saying that, (IN GENERAL), those who end up becoming teen mothers are those who come from poor backgrounds. Now, it ain't like the rest of the girls from other economic strata are not having sex. They are; but they have got better/well informed/supported options -- in terms of preventative precautions, after the fact care (regardless of what choice is taken) and resources (both in terms of money, education and parental involvement).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caneel*
> 
> Emaye - I suspect it isn't that no one discusses/uses that option, they just keep it to themselves because of the social stigma.


I suspect you are right but the fact that there is such a stigma around it, so much so that it does not get discussed in "public" spaces saddens me because I think it is a legitimate and relatively simple choice that should be explored before it is totally ruled out.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nerissav*
> 
> It might have been just me that gave just those two options, because they are the only two I believe in personally and the only ones that would be acceptable in my household. What other people do is their own business.


I meant in general. Of course you are free to have your preferences.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

We are pro-sex at our house. I made sure my kids know all the safe sex stuff and tell them to be choosy. Good sex takes time and privacy, something teens generally have little of. I'm also careful to talk to my daughter and my son about mutual pleasure... not one giving in or giving out just for the other partner. And yes, the choosy part... I tell them not to sleep with anyone who's not "gene pool worthy". Cause the best birth control is not 100%.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I was raised by a teenage mom and I don't think it is all that great, neither did she. Teens sex is a reality though. My mom encouraged abstinence but if we did choose not to go with that she encouraged, and paid for birth control and condoms. I plan on taking a simular approach and using Planned Parenthood resources.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

I'm an extreme case. Before I was 18 I had sex with 30+ men/boys/girls. I don't remember exact numbers and I had a hard drive crash so the list is gone.

I start telling kids at about 10 "If you have sex and you aren't ready to be a parent the boy and the girl need to each be on birth control. That means a boy never has sex without a condom until he is actively thinking, "I want a kid with this person!"" I say it over and over. That's how I didn't have unexpected kids. Thai prostitutes have a basically 100% effectiveness rate on condoms. Me too.  I started taking the pill when I was 12. The first person I had sex with was 25 and he refused to wear a condom and I was too young and stupid to push harder so I took that risk with him. Because I asked him to fuck me. Then I went on the pill. Then I turned into a hard ass about condoms.

I learned a lot of lessons the hard way. I have never understood this "emotional devastation" people talk about having after sexual contact. I don't feel that. I get the impression I probably qualify as having one or more attachment issues, perhaps all the way to a disorder, because of the extent of abuse I went through. Sex is one of the only ways I can feel close to people. I have built a lot of friendships this way. I tend to hang on to my sexual partners and stay on good terms with them. Even my one night stands are usually quite fond of me. If you don't count my rapists (because who wants to count them any way) then I've only had two sexual partners I have tried to get away from afterwards. One was a boyfriend of nine months--that was the closest I came to an abusive relationship. Anyway.

I discourage teen sex. I tell kids to go masturbate. I tell them to masturbate all the god damn time because learning how to orgasm is harder than you think and you'll be a better sex partner if you spend a lot of time learning what you like. I did it with partners--it's a rocky road. I understand that few people are as disconnected as I am and I encourage girls (in particular though not exclusively) to be selfish about sex. Don't have intercourse with someone until he has already put the time in to get you off a lot or you really shouldn't bother. He probably won't be nicer once his dick is in you. Almost no men get nicer then. At this point I have slept with more than a hundred men. They don't get nicer once their dick is in you. You have to be damn sure they are nice first.

So yeah. I don't encourage teenage sex. I talk frankly about it being physically much more uncomfortable; I wasn't done growing "down there" until I was in my twenties and sex magically stopped hurting. I thought it just had to hurt like that. Whoops. I also wasn't able to orgasm in the first five years or so I was having sex. I really should have spent the time masturbating. My life would have been happier.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I always talk to my boys about bodily integrity, and in intend to tell my girl the same-you dont touch me without my consent. I dont force a hug on them, i say-would you like a hug? I have a hug for you. (especially at times when i think they need one)

Legally speaking, consent begins at 18. But some teenagers are more mature than others. Some are more assertive than others. For me, if both parties feel ready, and truly consent, and take the necessary precautions, then its their business. For those who dont want to , let them abstain. I abstained as a teenager. I just had other things to do.

If a person loves their body, loves and accepts themselves, then they are more likely to make wise decisions, regarding their body, their reproductivity, and everything else that matters.


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## Kaydove (Jul 29, 2010)

I've learned that how the west coast views sex is much different than the south. My DH and I grew up and are living on the west coast, my step daughter moved in with us in March and grew up in the south. We see casual sex as no big deal and that being someone's boyfriend/girlfriend is a big deal, where my step daughter sees causal sex as slutty and not something she does, but being someone's girlfriend is much more common and happens much sooner in the relationship. She wouldn't sleep with someone unless she is their girlfriend, whereas I would have one night stands and have no problem with it and not be seen as a slut. To her, one night stands are gross and so stanky. DH and I have had fewer relationships than her because be in a relationship is a bigger deal than just sleeping with them. Also, my DH has slept with 99% of his female friends. I thought that was really interesting.

My DH and I do have a more casual view of sex, which includes teen sex. I don't have a magical age in mind for when I would want my DD to first have sex. I think it would be romantic if she had sex for the first time at prom with her high school boyfriend who adores her. For some reason 16 seems like a good age to me, some how better than 15 but I don't have a logical reasoning for that. Maybe because teens get the responsibility of a driver's license at 16 so it seems more mature than 15.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaydove*
> 
> I've learned that how the west coast views sex is much different than the south. My DH and I grew up and are living on the west coast, my step daughter moved in with us in March and grew up in the south. We see casual sex as no big deal and that being someone's boyfriend/girlfriend is a big deal, where my step daughter sees causal sex as slutty and not something she does, but being someone's girlfriend is much more common and happens much sooner in the relationship. She wouldn't sleep with someone unless she is their girlfriend, whereas I would have one night stands and have no problem with it and not be seen as a slut. To her, one night stands are gross and so stanky. DH and I have had fewer relationships than her because be in a relationship is a bigger deal than just sleeping with them. Also, my DH has slept with 99% of his female friends. I thought that was really interesting.
> 
> My DH and I do have a more casual view of sex, which includes teen sex. I don't have a magical age in mind for when I would want my DD to first have sex. I think it would be romantic if she had sex for the first time at prom with her high school boyfriend who adores her. For some reason 16 seems like a good age to me, some how better than 15 but I don't have a logical reasoning for that. *Maybe because teens get the responsibility of a driver's license at 16 so it seems more mature than 15. *


In some places....and that's probably not going to be the case by the time our kids are old enough to drive.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

I am moving this to the Preteen and Teen forum.


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## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

in my house, we preach birth control and self-respect. i was taught abstinence, and got pregnant at 17. most girls i knew in strict religious homes were either secretly sleeping with lots of guys or ended up pregnant early.

what i wish i had known then...how to have sex that felt good. lubrication...and not to be embarassed about "down there". also i wish my mom had protected me and not let the damn doctor hurt me when he did a pelvic on me at age 14, bc that made me terrified to let a guy touch me. i am still jumpy to this day.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meemee*
> 
> with teen pregnancy my personal gripe is that it is always coloured with a black hue, downfall of the mom, ruined life. is teen pregnancy really that bad.


Yes. I suppose that whether you view it as bad or not depends on your expectations for your life. My mom got pregnant at 17, and it took her almost 15 years to finish college because she was working so much and trying to make life work as a single mom. She regrets that deeply. So do I. My mom is brilliant and would have had a very different life if she hadn't gotten pregnant. I did not have a stable or happy childhood because of the resentment and the fact that I just got in the way of her ambitions. If you don't have the desire to go to college or have a career, then you get a job and continue on your way in the same way that you would have otherwise (with the added expenses of parenting). I suppose that could be seen as less damaging in the long run. My mom was fanatical with me and my sister about sex and how much it could ruin our lives if we got pregnant (although I think she happily would have paid for either of us to get abortions). My sister and I are very different. She's conservative and religious. I'm progressive and very political. We both adhered to my mom's admonitions in different ways (her: abstinence; me: a zero tolerance policy on not using birth control). I don't want to use fear tactics with my children and want them to foster a healthier sexuality than I had in my early 20s, but I do want them to understand that having a baby changes the trajectory of your life. It's not a joke or fun or a small obstacle.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> In some places....and that's probably not going to be the case by the time our kids are old enough to drive.


I have a kid who is driving and 16 really isn't that old. And she's mature for her age! Thank god she has no interest in dating.









Some thoughts on Meemee original question -- I think your DD is a great age for these conversations because she will be less interested in having them with you in a few years. My main points on sex when I talk to my DDs are.

1. if two people want to have sex and they don't want to make a baby, they should use two forms of birthcontrol. One of those should be a condemn. (I've said this so many times that if I start it, my kids roll their eyes and finish it)

2. Sex can make relationships more emotionally intense. They can make break ups worse, and they are pretty icky even without sex. There's no condemn for your heart.

3. Put the same level of thought into every single sexual partner as you do your first. Lots of people put a lot of thought into who should be their first, but I argue that there's no difference. Subsequent partners should live up to that same standard (whatever it is). Every person you decide to be intimate matters, because you matter.

4. I have your insurance card and prescription card, and if you want them to see a well woman provider, use prescription birthcontrol, etc. Just say so. The most important thing to me is that you make your own choices and take care of yourself. If you for whatever reason feel you can't talk to me, use Planned Parenthood. They are cheap and take confidentially very seriously.

5. What ever choices you make, I will always love you and be on your side.

My DH and I have discussed it and if one of our kids had a baby, we would help them. They could live here and continue school and we would make everything as easy as possible. It wouldn't be the end of the world for our child. It wouldn't be our first choice, obviously. What we've explained to our kids is that having a baby before they were really ready, financially independent, in a solid relationship and all that is that it makes life a lot harder. Raising kids is a lot more work than it looks like. They are time consuming and expensive. We've explained that our life style is possible because both DH and I got college degrees and work experience and didn't have kids until we were in our 30s.

None the less, our kids will make their own choices. And what ever they are, I hope to have peace as they unfold.


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## whatsnextmom (Apr 2, 2010)

I don't think there is any question that teen pregnancy is difficult for all parties involved. My parents were 16/17 when I was born and while they are the tiny percentage that have actually stayed together all these years and thrived, they also had a lot of help. My dad's parents gave them a house and paid for college for both of them.... and helped watch me so they could finish high school and college. My mothers family both couldn't and wouldn't help. My parents worked their tale off too, no question but they didn't do it alone and they would never try to pretend they did. It's a harder life than they recommended to me certainly.

My mom gave me a very honest talking to at 16 when I first started dating. She didn't forbid sex. She just told me that it changes things and until it happens, you won't know if changes things for the better or for the worse. At that point, I'd already had some friends suffering the worse. Both girls were 15... one got herpes her first time, the other ended up pregnant and had an abortion her freshman year. I saw sex as a risk I wasn't willing to take until I was an adult and in a stable, mature relationship.

As parents, we talk pretty honestly about sex with our kids. While neither of us try and sell "wait until you are married" because we don't really believe in that, we recommend our kids wait until they are adults. My 15-year-old talks to us about her friends who are active and it's always with sorrow. In her case, her few sexually active friends aren't emotionally healthy and she is absolutely aware of that. Sex doesn't bring them joy and it doesn't fix their problems. What had the hardest impact on DD was that if a pregnancy occurs, those kids could be tied together forever. DD is just starting to tip-toe into the dating world and taking things very, very slow. In the mean time, she's learning a lot from the actions of others.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> My DH and I have discussed it and if one of our kids had a baby, we would help them. They could live here and continue school and we would make everything as easy as possible. It wouldn't be the end of the world for our child. It wouldn't be our first choice, obviously.


This is where we stand, too.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whatsnextmom*
> 
> What had the hardest impact on DD was that if a pregnancy occurs, those kids could be tied together forever.


Yes, this is so true. My daughters and I talk a lot about sex (well, moreso dd1 right now but dd2 sometimes listens in) and I share my belief that it should be with the person you want to spend the rest of your life with and make a family with -- but I also share that not everyone approaches sex in the same way. Some people think it's important to have more than one sexual partner in your lifetime.

One thing I emphasize is that whomever we have unprotected sex with, we carry around microorganisms from their bodies forever, and those microorganisms can combine with our own in new and surprising ways (of course, we do also share microorganisms by breathing the same air as someone else or kissing someone else, but I'm sure we get more from sex) -- so, if you want to have sex before you're really ready to commit to one person, you definitely need to use a condom. I guess you can tell that I actually see disease as more quality of life-threatening, and sometimes even more life-threatening, than teen pregnancy.

I suppose the above paragraph sounds just awful to some people, but I just do really think that having sex with someone else connects you forever with that person, sometimes to a lesser degree, sometimes to a greater degree. And I don't think microorganisms are all bad. Obviously, my own precious dds started out as microorganisms. But it's important to me to know someone really well before sharing microorganisms to that degree. I do have a good friend who got sexually involved with her first husband when she was 14, and, some ten years later, discovered that she had pelvic inflammatory disease. She and her partner of today did finally manage to have a baby with medical intervention, after she'd had a couple of miscarriages about five months into the pregnancy, but what she had to go through was very stressful for her.

I certainly don't feel everyone needs to approach sex the same way I do, including my own daughters. And I agree with those who talk about the importance of it being enjoyed by both people. I think that for many girls and women, masturbation can be a big help in getting to know ourselves and learning what makes us feel good, and the girls and I have sometimes talked about how we have complete freedom to touch and explore our own bodies, and how those good feelings really are a good thing.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

eeeeeeeh Linda. i have only had rudimentary conversation with dd. she is in the <giggle giggle> talk about crushes stage. she is not in the birth control stage at all. she's still a kid to talk about emotional aspect of sex. i am hoping her starting her periods might be the right time to bring it up. she has known the science of getting pregnant a while now so she gets the mechanic of it.

but one thing she knows if she gets pregnant i will be there for her - with whatever decision she makes - whether i approve or not.







she very proudly tells people its ok if i have a baby at 16. my mom wont mind.

you know i look at this culturally. 50% of the teens in the hispanic community get pregnant. when you talk to a hispanic academic they say oh this has got to stop. when you talk to the teen mom, i am blown away by their maturity. they KNOW what they want. they are NOT interested in higher education. they want to get married and have kids and live the kind of life they want. i guess many see that as not forward thinking = as not progress.

i have nieces who were teenage moms and they had a LOT of support. yes life is hard but it didnt stop them from doing what they wanted to do. i also have family who chose not to go to college. she was smart as a whip and her father really struggled with it. but she is happy with her life as she has built it now. her dad has regrets that she didnt go far as she could have, but she is happy where she is.

teen pregnancy is interesting for me coz i compare it with myself. i was alone with a 2 year old when i was 38. life was hard, hard, hard - not having any family or any support. for a teen to go thru that is mind boggling.

but i have noticed at the high schools around me that most of these teens have so much family help. yes some say - wow my child helped me as i was spirallying out of control. others do feel a twinge that they cant just get up and go and do things they want to. but then i also know a single father whose mother does all, adn the son does the minimum.

but i do think its absolutely important that one figures out sexually exactly what one likes before one goes ahead.


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## whatsnextmom (Apr 2, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meemee*
> 
> 50% of the teens in the hispanic community get pregnant.


If you are citing the statistic I think you are, I think it's important to note that this is a percentage of Latina women who get pregnant before 20. Yes, 18 and 19's are still teenagers but I think it's important to acknowledge that the stat includes legal adults... not just 15/16-year-olds. I think it's important to note that ones personal exposure to this will depend on where you live. We know tons of Hispanic girls who we watched grow and are now in college. In fact, we don't know any who have gotten pregnant in high school. I suspect the numbers would increase greatly in impoverished areas where unfortunately, can be highly concentrated with Hispanic and African-American girls.

My teen mom was half-hispanic, half- Filipino, impoverished and abused. She was also an honor student and absolutely wanted to go to college and have a career. She's from a family of 8 kids and she's the only one who had a baby in her teens.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meemee*
> 
> eeeeeeeh Linda. i have only had rudimentary conversation with dd. she is in the <giggle giggle> talk about crushes stage. she is not in the birth control stage at all.
> 
> ...


First, my experience is that it's easier to talk to kids about birthcontrol when it is something they won't need to know until some far off time in the future. It's up there with teaching kids than when they have their own car, they need to get the oil changed. When they get an apartment, they need to get renters insurance (which is cheap). When they have sex, if they don't want to have a baby they need to use two forms of birthcontrol, and one of them should be a condemn.

Its an easier conversation when it is theoretical for "when they are older" than when they know their peers are "doing it."

One of my neighbor's DD (upper middle class white chick living on the "right" side of town) told me that she believes that *most* teen pregnancy is intentional. Girls get pregnant (and continue the pregnancy) because they want to have a baby. That's what she sees at her school, and its one of those schools that people pay more for their houses for the advantage of sending their kids to a "good" school.

I see just making babies because one likes them as irresponsible unless one has a plan for paying for and providing the time and energy to bring up the baby.

I am also the product of a teen pregnancy. I wanted to get married and live the kind of life I wanted, so I got a college degree, traveled around, had a career, married someone with a college degree and a solid career, and then had 2 kids in my 30s. If I had skipped all the stuff in the middle, I wouldn't have the life I wanted. I'd have children with needs and no time or money to meet them.

I wanted a better life for my kids than I had for myself. So I planned and waited.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I think it will be interesting to see how the economic crisis plays out and whether it significantly changes how our economies work in the future.

Right now, or up until recerntly, the best economic time for many women in industrialized countries to begin having babies has been in their mid-to-late thirties or even early forties, which is not necessarily the best time for every woman, biologically speaking.

It seems like in less affluent countries or even less affluent sectors of the U.S., women are more likely to begin having babies at the most ideal time biologically and physically, because they don't see any real economic advantage to putting it off.

I think the world is undergoing a major shift right now and I have a feeling that this might change some attitudes regarding teen motherhood, as well as other things. What do you all think?


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## jdsf (Apr 6, 2011)

Abstinence only is a recipe for disaster IMO. I thought I knew a lot about sex as a teenager, but what they taught in school was not adequate. I remember getting unsolicited advice from teachers and coaches, too, about how "saving it is the best gift you can give", but teenagers aren't thinking about the future too much. I had plenty of sexual encounters as a teen, and by most accounts, I should have ended up dead in a ditch or with herpes at the least. But I had a screwed up childhood and years of sexual abuse under my belt by that point. My older dd is not interested in sex at all, and has actually ended all of the relationships she's had (one was almost a year even) because she isn't ready for anything sexual. Three boyfriends and I'm pretty sure she didn't French kiss any of them. My younger one asks more questions but socially boys are still weird so it's a non issue.

I do know a couple of former teen moms and they are successful in their pursuits and don't seem any worse off than anyone else. If you have support, you will do well, but that is almost always true in any case. A teen dad is way more likely to run than a grown man, but there's no guarantee they will still be a good father or a father at all if you wait until you're grown. We are TTC and I already feel like I've wasted too much time and the clock is nearly run out, and I'm not even considered advanced age for a mother. So who knows what hand you'll get dealt, I just think it depends on the character of the individuals and support network involved.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdsf*
> I remember getting unsolicited advice from teachers and coaches, too, about how "saving it is the best gift you can give",


So your body's history is a gift that you give to someone? Does the same apply to your bowel movements?

Your body and your sexuality is yours. You can share it if you want, its your body. I believe informed consent is at the crux of this issue, and any girl menstruating is mature enough to get informed if she wants, thats where the guiding adults in her life have a role.

They should have given you the book, Taking Charge of Your Fertility. I will give this book to my dd when shes ready, ill probably encourage my boys to read it too.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *contactmaya*
> 
> So your body's history is a gift that you give to someone? Does the same apply to your bowel movements?
> 
> ...


I have similar feelings. We never talk in my house about losing virginity but rather in creating a shared, caring, consensual experience for you and your partner. There's something to be GAINED here.. not lost!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> I have similar feelings. We never talk in my house about losing virginity but rather in creating a shared, caring, consensual experience for you and your partner. There's something to be GAINED here.. not lost!


I agree with this, and yet I also think my daughters should be aware that there are some boys who pretend to really care about a girl in order to get sex, and then turn around and tell their friends how "easy' she was.

I think it usually does take some time to really get to know someone to the point where you can trust them at a sexual level.

I was really intrigued, a while back, to read about an indigenous culture in which there is no word to distinguish "virgin" from "non-virgin." If I'm remembering right, the children in this culture leave their parents' tents at around age 9 and go to live in a communal "children's tent" (in which the parents are not allowed), and in which they're free to experiment sexually, and often start doing so at what people in the U.S. would say is a pretty young age.

This is intriguing to me -- but since I am raising my girls to live in U.S. culture, I feel like I'd be doing them a disservice if I didn't protect them from having sexual experiences (with other people, I'm not talking about their own personal explorations of their own bodies) before such time as they really know the meaning of terms like "sexual intercourse" and "virginity," and really understand what loaded concepts these are for some people. In our culture, I think it can be very upsetting to a girl to learn about concepts like virginity (and about how some people really make a distinction between those who are virgins and those who aren't) AFTER they've already had sex.

I also think it would be really crass of me to decide "for" my daughters that the opinions of boys or others who might define them as "loose" don't matter just because "I" think people with double standards are real jerks and their opinions don't matter. I feel like they have a right to gain an understanding of some of the different points of view that are circulating around in our society, so that they can make their own decisions about what does or doesn't matter to them.

That said, I would certainly prefer for them to see sex as gaining something, and not as giving anything up.


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

In my opinion if you choose to get married you are choosing to have your body belong the other person (and they're giving you theirs), so it better be somebody you trust to respect you and do right by you. So there is something to that. Anyhow, our way will be continue teaching the biology of it, that it is pleasurable and great under the right circumstances, teach about the difficult relationship, unplanned pregnancy, or diseases results that could come of it, and how to be safer if they choose to have sex. I'd support my child and their partner if there was a pregnancy, while encouraging they work fast toward adult level responsibility I certainly wouldn't cut them off. But as for what's right they will know it is for within marriage only and besides those risks, morally we believe you are basically cheating on your future spouse if you do otherwise - not unforgivable but a problem nonetheless.

Susan's economic ideas are interesting to me. We married and started having kids young (I married at 18, first child at 19) and haven't really suffered from it, money was tight at first and DH worked hard to finish school and work at the same time so some semesters were rough time-wise. I finished my degree slowly too, as a sahm I only wanted to be educated not have a career. Seems like college education means less and less for income levels nowadays though, so it's almost a why wait thing. And being a one income family isn't too bad living frugally, nice to have the calm time together and things taken came of at home. Everybody else has to live frugally to get by too so it all works out as normal especially in the region we now live, where our household income is actually above avg.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mammal_mama*
> 
> This is intriguing to me -- but since I am raising my girls to live in U.S. culture, I feel like I'd be doing them a disservice if I didn't protect them from having sexual experiences (with other people, I'm not talking about their own personal explorations of their own bodies) before such time as they really know the meaning of terms like "sexual intercourse" and "virginity," and really understand what loaded concepts these are for some people. In our culture, I think it can be very upsetting to a girl to learn about concepts like virginity (and about how some people really make a distinction between those who are virgins and those who aren't) AFTER they've already had sex.


I had the unfortunate experience of losing my virginity before I knew what the word meant because I was raped when I was 10. Then I get to live through years and years and church youth group classes focused on how being a virgin was the most important thing a man looks for in a wife.

Not surprisingly, I ended up with a lot issues and spent many years in therapy.









With my own DDs, I'm not sure how I would keep such concepts as "sexual intercourse" or "virginity" a secret -- we have a normal life. We don't live in a cave with a rock in front. What I have skipped, completely and totally, is the notion that a woman's value is in any related to her status as virgin/non virgin. It is a deeply offensive concept to me, and one that was very destructive to my own emotional development. Therefore, I have ensured that my DDs have been brought up know that it doesn't matter. At all. It isn't any one's business.

I'm happily married and have been so for quite some time. My body is mine. I love my husband and I love sharing my life with him, but I still belong to me. I wouldn't want a man who saw it any other way -- I've had the experience of not having my body be my own, and I'll not do that again.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Linda, I'm so sorry about everything you went through!

I agree that I wouldn't want either of my daughters to feel like her sexuality belonged to anyone but her or that her experience, or lack thereof, in any way defined her value.

In my previous post, I was thinking about some of the ways that different people define what it means to be "sex positive." The indigenous culture that I was writing about does indeed sound very sex positive, and I think it's great that the concept of sex as "loss" doesn't seem to exist in this culture.

While I don't personally know any families in the U.S. who are quite this sex positive, I do occasionally read about people in the U.S. who think it's great for children to begin experimenting sexually with other children at a very young age. I'm not saying that anyone here was advocating this -- but I do think that too early of an introduction to sex, whether it is forced or not, can cause some children to feel like they lost something.

Maybe I feel this way because in our culture, sometimes one child pressures another child into something -- but this may not be the case in less aggressive cultures.

About the idea that some men are looking for a virgin to marry, I think this preference is very much tied to our society's tendency to see a couple's sex life as the man's responsibility. I think the idea that a girl or woman should take responsibility for her own sexual pleasure -- you know, get to know what she likes so she can tell her partner and sexual pleasure can be something they work on and create together -- still hasn't really taken root. There still seems to be a very strong emphasis on male sexual prowess, or lack thereof, in the media.

While I wouldn't say that many men these days are really looking for a virgin, I think that some still do hope their wife will have less experience than they do, simply because they don't want the pressure of having to compete with a lot of other guys, even if those relationships are just memories. Hopefully, the idea of sex as connection and communication will eventually become more prevalent than the idea of sex as a man proving himself. I have a feeling that when it does, a whole lot of other things will change, too.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

I married someone who wanted a really experienced sexual partner. He didn't view my history as a problem or as something "taken away" from him. He views it as "I get to benefit from all this experience! Score!" It takes all kinds.

I'm sure my kids will pick up the term "virgin" at some point. I'm not planning to lock them in a closet. I think that sex is one of the best parts of life. I want my girls to believe that sex is a really wonderful thing they will probably have a lot of... once they are fully developed.

Linda, I was a "slut" before I knew what the word was. Or what the word sex meant. Or rape. But I knew how to perform the acts. I'm glad my children will not grow up believing that those acts are things that all girls and women are required to perform.

Trobriand Islanders were one culture that encouraged "pre-marital" or rather, pre-fertility sex. I think that such acts have to be contextualized. I think that part of the reason that youthful sex is so traumatic in this country is the degree to which children/teenagers have no agency. They have to take the negative consequences of decisions but they don't get the positives because they aren't adults.

I always feel kind of weird and like I "should" be pro-sex in all contexts for all people at all ages. That's the pressure I feel from the sex positive community. I feel like these things must be examined in context. In modern America... it seems like a better idea to wait for a wide variety of reasons. Not till marriage--I have no horse in that race. If my children never marry I'll be fine with that. I just want them to *want* sex before they have it. Not just kinda not say no.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rightkindofme*
> 
> I just want them to *want* sex before they have it. Not just kinda not say no.


That's a really good way of putting it.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdsf*
> 
> I remember getting unsolicited advice from teachers and coaches, too, about how "saving it is the best gift you can give",


I would absolutely freak if I found out that teachers or coaches were talking like that to my child. If one of them had said it to me, I'd have slotted them into the "creepy' category, and kept a close eye on them. That's just so out of line.


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## loveandgarbage (Feb 5, 2008)

I think if teenagers are mature enough to handle it, it's fine. But that's a tough thing to call, and as parents we can't prevent our kids from having sex if they are not "ready". I was ready when I was 16, was in a committed/loving relationship, and it was a great experience for me. I thank my lucky stars that my mom is an amazing woman, and was very open with me about sex from a young age (my dad was, too). When I decided to have sex my mom took me to get on BC and also had a frank discussion with me about sex. It wasn't about STDs or pregnancy (as I already knew those things) but instead about emotional attachment and making sure that sex was pleasurable for me, not just my partner. When my kids get to the age when this is an issue, I will try to have a similar talk with them, but it will be a little different because they're boys. I will suggest that before sex happens that both they and their partners should know how they would feel about a pregnancy. I will make sure my sons are understanding of female pleasure (this is going to embarrass them but oh well!).


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


> Hopefully, the idea of sex as connection and communication will eventually become more prevalent than the idea of sex as a man proving himself. I have a feeling that when it does, a whole lot of other things will change, too.


This is so what I want for my children. I have two teen boys who I hope don't feel pressured to prove themselves and two littler girls who I hope won't be dominated by a boy who feels the need to prove himself.


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