# I'm lost - suicidal preteen. lies, accusations of molestation - long



## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Tuesday night I took my DD1 (12yrs old) to the ER and she was admitted to a pediatric psych hospital. She'd been depressed but late Monday night I found out it had become worse and she was cutting herself and having suicidal thoughts. I also found she'd been having very sexual conversations with strangers online and visiting porn sites. So after she got home from school Tuesday we picked up my DH (her step-dad) from work and took her straight to the ER.

For a long time she's been lying about things. In the past she's forged signatures, lied to teachers about homework, lied to me about if she had plates and bowls in her room, etc. Little things, big things. She's been lying for a long time. Even last week she spent the night at her cousin's house. When we picked her up I asked if she helped feed the horses and she said no. DD LOVES feeding horses, so I thought that seemed weird. On Easter we went over there again and I asked her cousin why Ayla didn't help feed the horses. Cousin tells me DD DID help feed the horses, in fact DD had asked to do it.

Anyway... fast forward to today. On the way to take DH to work I noticed that DD had left her notebook in the back of the car. I grabbed it and figured she'd want it while she's in the hospital. The case manager though had been very clear that she can't have anything referencing death, suicide, etc so I opened the book and started reading it to see if it was something she could have. Most of it were poems and stories she'd also written in other places. All about cutting, suicide, etc. There were a couple diary entries as well. And then I saw a letter she wrote to her friend T.

She wrote this in the car after I tried talking to her about feeling depressed and suicidal, etc. She wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't look at me, etc. This is the last thing written in her notebook that she left in the car. After talking to her we picked up DH and then went to the ER.

What am I most concerned about? Well, she mentions she's not a virgin anymore and names 8 names. She claims I called her a suicidal whore. She also claims that now that her step-father knows she's a "whore" (her word) that he's been hitting on her.

I NEVER called her a suicidal whore! Not once. I told her I was worried about her because I saw she had been suicidal stuff and visiting suicide websites, and that I also knew she'd been going to *inappropriate* sites for a girl her age. I never, ever, called her a whore.

And as for DH hitting on DD, well, it's just not possible. DH and DD are very, very, rarely even in the house together without me, and if they are DD2 is ALWAYS around, and it's never for long at all. Plus she says "Now that he knows I'm pretty much a whore" he's been hitting on her. But we didn't discover that (the porn, not that she's a whore) until late at night on Monday and then went straight to bed. And the next day, as soon as we picked him up, we went to the ER. There hasn't been a single time for this to happen.

But if she lies about this to someone else our whole family is going to be destroyed. DH's sister lied about her step-dad (DH's dad) molesting her and it ruined their family. DH was put in foster care on his 7th birthday while it was investigated And after it was found to be false, well, the family never was the same. His mom and dad ended up divorcing. He is freaked that she would make up a story like this.

I can't deal with this. I am freaked too. DD has lied all her life. I told the psych liaison at the hospital about it. But I don't know if she believed me, or thought much of it. I don't know why DD is so screwed up. I don't know why DD seems to want to tear apart this family. I don't care either. I don't think this is something that can ever be healed between us.

I really don't know what to do.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

I don't have any advice, but I couldn't read and not respond. Hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs for you and your family. I hope someone has something useful to tell you. Prayers or vibes or just generaly good feelings for you and your family. I hope everything turns around for you all soon. Take care.


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## harrietsmama (Dec 10, 2001)

I know this has got to be breaking your heart somewhere in there, even if you are completely lost and worn out. To me it sounds like she is Borderline Personality, but I'm not a pro. You did the right thing taking her to the hospital. I really hope she can find some help and peace. But the lying, cutting, promiscuity, etc. all fits.


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## chiromamma (Feb 24, 2003)

I just want to say that you CAN deal with this and it CAN be healed. It's good you got her help right away.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

s


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

im so sorry you guys are going through this. obviously i know very little about the whole situation so i apologize if this is way off base but i wanted to ask just in case. how much do you know about the friend? how long have they been friends? the note doesnt read like it was written to a confidant who is trying to help someone in a horrible situation. it reads more like two teenagers who bring out the very worst in each other are bonding over things like sex, porn, cutting, suicide etc its a wicked dangerous road to walk & perhaps even more difficult (but entirely possible) to come back from.


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## demottm (Nov 15, 2006)

Please know that no matter what your DD does it is not to tear your family apart. She is a child. She is only trying to figure out her way in this life. No matter what she says or does please find it in your heart to remember that you love her and please forgive her. I went through something very similar when I was 15 and my mother said the same things about me. She still hasn't forgiven me.


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Mama wether or not those things she wrote where said, that is what SHE perceives. So to her they are relevant, and those things are happening.

I struggled with depression/suicide from 8 on, and was hospitalized 5 times for it, so i have been around the block, so to say, with all of these issues.

Why did you have to pick up your DH when you took your dd to the hospital?

I would listen really closely to what she is telling you and not through things strait to her simply lying. Maybe she told you that she didnt feed the horses because she wanted a way out of talking to you, or wanted to make you feel bad for bringing her over there to begin with....and maybe she sees you DH as touching her butt inappropriately because someone else has done something innocently like that and it turned into something much more serious.......all maybe.

I would take some time out to spend some quality q on 1 time with your dd, and listen to EVERYTHING she says. Dont brush anything under the rug, listen to her, not to your little baby girl, but to the individual spirit and soul that is living in the body of your child.








Its a tough road, it took me a long time to be able to sort through my emotions to see the truth, and to be able to deal with the anger and sadness of my past. It effects every child differently, so what might not be a big deal to you your dd might not have had the cpoing tools to deal with it, and still might not be able to. And also vise versa, what you perceive as a big deal. might not be anything to your dd, because of the coping mechanisms that she has built up to protect her......


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I am so sorry you are all going through such a very difficult time. I can imagine how upset you are with your dd but she is so young and can't possibly understand how damaging what she is doing is (that doesn't make it okay of course). The last thing she needs is for you to withdraw your love and I understand your anger but she's so young and she needs you so much right now.
I am just heart broken that a child is making such long term decisions with no doubt no concept of the enormity of them. My heart hurts for you because you are having to watch your child being hurt and hurting herself (and the intense emotions that have to go along with that). I am so incredibly sorry.


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## Labyrinth (Apr 14, 2008)

I know that you must be going through a ton right now! Please know, though, that psychiatric hospitalizations tend to be very short (3-14 days) and the planning for intensive post-hospitalization services, support, and loving supervision needs to start ASAP. Know that there is limited evidence that individual therapy is effective with young teens- the most proven therapeutic approaches are family therapy and group therapy. If it's at all possible I would try to find both a family therapist to see weekly and a group therapy program or intensive outpatient/partial hospitalization program. It is likely she will be discharged with less than a days notice. When she is discharged I would not leave her alone at all- sleep in her room, don't leave her alone at all. Create a lot of structure in her days like she has at the hospital- on days she's not in school or at a treatment program make sure to get her out of the house and doing something. If she wants to go hang out with friends go with her, or invite friends to go with you to the mall or zoo or whatever. Talk to your work about taking family medical leave. I am not saying this because of the self-injury, I am saying this because of the suicidal thoughts. She will likely still be having suicidal thoughts post-hospitalization, and is probably at a very high risk for running away. Some parents sleep in their childrens rooms or right outside their bedroom doors for months after they are hospitalized.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *harrietsmama* 
To me it sounds like she is Borderline Personality, but I'm not a pro.

Her DD is too young to be accurately diagnosed with a personality disorder. Borderline traits are common among teens in general, and are also common in other disorders, especially mood and anxiety disorders. I was diagnosed with BPD traits- it turned out that in addition to having PTSD my thyroid had died causing extremely severe depression and psychotic features- which looked a lot like BPD to some doctors.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinyblackdot* 
Mama wether or not those things she wrote where said, that is what SHE perceives. So to her they are relevant, and those things are happening.

I agree with that. She is expressing something that is going on to her- whether it is accurate to what actually happened or not. She may or may not know if you called her the W word, but it is most definitely expressing something about how she feels about herself.

I would look into the CSA allegations- it's very possible possible that something has happened to her. I am not saying by your DH, but in general.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
how much do you know about the friend? how long have they been friends? the note doesnt read like it was written to a confidant who is trying to help someone in a horrible situation. it reads more like two teenagers who bring out the very worst in each other are bonding over things like sex, porn, cutting, suicide etc its a wicked dangerous road to walk & perhaps even more difficult (but entirely possible) to come back from.

We don't really know a lot about this particular friend. She lives a couple of blocks away and they go to school together. She's hung out with her here in the neighborhood before, but that's about it. I definitely wouldn't consider her a confidant.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *demottm* 
Please know that no matter what your DD does it is not to tear your family apart. She is a child. She is only trying to figure out her way in this life. No matter what she says or does please find it in your heart to remember that you love her and please forgive her. I went through something very similar when I was 15 and my mother said the same things about me. She still hasn't forgiven me.

I do love her and I haven't said anything to her about being angry. I've only told her I'm worried and want her to get better. I don't even know if I'm angry though. I'm in shock. I'm worried. I'm overwhelmed. But angry? Trust is gone though... and that's going to be hard to overcome.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinyblackdot* 
Why did you have to pick up your DH when you took your dd to the hospital?

I had to pick up DH because there was no way I could handle DD1, DD2, and DD3 all at the ER alone.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Labyrinth* 
I know that you must be going through a ton right now! Please know, though, that psychiatric hospitalizations tend to be very short (3-14 days) and the planning for intensive post-hospitalization services, support, and loving supervision needs to start ASAP. Know that there is limited evidence that individual therapy is effective with young teens- the most proven therapeutic approaches are family therapy and group therapy. If it's at all possible I would try to find both a family therapist to see weekly and a group therapy program or intensive outpatient/partial hospitalization program. It is likely she will be discharged with less than a days notice. When she is discharged I would not leave her alone at all- sleep in her room, don't leave her alone at all. Create a lot of structure in her days like she has at the hospital- on days she's not in school or at a treatment program make sure to get her out of the house and doing something. If she wants to go hang out with friends go with her, or invite friends to go with you to the mall or zoo or whatever. Talk to your work about taking family medical leave. I am not saying this because of the self-injury, I am saying this because of the suicidal thoughts. She will likely still be having suicidal thoughts post-hospitalization, and is probably at a very high risk for running away. Some parents sleep in their childrens rooms or right outside their bedroom doors for months after they are hospitalized.

I would look into the CSA allegations- it's very possible possible that something has happened to her. I am not saying by your DH, but in general.

Thankfully this program is helping us with referrals for outpatient therapies and groups. We're going to be making big changes here in the house, but I do also have 2 younger children to take care of. And not much support here. I'm not working though thankfully, so I don't have to deal with that too. We're planning on sleeping in the living room when she comes home. There is no way out except through the living room.

I've been trying like crazy to think when any abuse may have occurred if it did. I just can't think of anyone I would suspect. But that doesn't mean much, does it?


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

amydidit said:


> We don't really know a lot about this particular friend. She lives a couple of blocks away and they go to school together. She's hung out with her here in the neighborhood before, but that's about it. I definitely wouldn't consider her a confidant. QUOTE]
> 
> have they gotten closer recently? she must consider her a close friend since she is sharing all that stuff with her. and they are cutting together... its not something that comes up in casual conversation... not to mention its generally something someone would do alone... esp. since any friend worth having would tell your parents. mine did. is she still hanging out with her other friends? sorry i am prying you don't have to answer at all... its just that at her age i wrote a few letters almost identical to hers and the bolded parts were not true for me either. the lying, cutting, porn, sex etc.were also things i did. though i lied the most.... including (maybe even especially) telling my friend i was doing a bunch of stuff i wasn't & that my parents were doing horribe things that they werent. i wasnt trying to hurt my family i was just to young and to be honest had to sheltered (not in a bad way actually in a good way) to understand the seriousness of my words & actions.


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## joyluc (May 31, 2007)

Momma I am so sorry







My son was recently assessed as at risk for suicide and hurting my DH although he has not been hospitalized. I am so sorry that your DD is so sad and depressed. I understand a little how overwhelmed you feel. Take care of yourself Momma, you can get through this with your family together.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

I have a 19yo who was very similar to this at this age. If I had it to do all over again I'd...

1) Intervene faster and take it all more seriously. In the interest of attempting to give her space, I let too much go that should have been addressed more professionally up the chain of command, so to speak. So I applaud you for getting her intensive help NOW.

2) Give her the emotional space from YOU that she's trying to create in an unhealthy way. This was another thing I don't think I did as well as I could have. Consider connecting with Big Brother's and Big Sister's of America and getting her a Big Sister as a mentor to connect with and do fun things with. It's ok if she isn't feeling like sharing these things with you, part of rebelling is distancing yourself from the family.

3) As for whether or not she is BPD? Who knows. She could be an angst ridden teen who feels emotions on hyperdrive. She could be genuinely suicidal. She could be genuinely depressed. She could be enjoying wallowing in the depths of despair. There's no way to know until she's an adult. I can tell you that my 19yo is DEFINITELY BPD. The pathological lying was unreal and people who haven't experienced it first hand just do NOT get it.

I'm sorry you are having to go through this mama. You have my thoughts and my support. Please keep posting. MDC kept me sane through so much of this hell. I've got two kiddos who are off the deep end in psych-ville so I know how hard it is.
























ETA: Also wanted to share w/you that my 19yo told everyone who would listen that she'd been "having an affair" with my DH (her stepdad) since she was 12 (when we got married). The only thing you can do with that is NOT give it power by acting as if it's a big crisis for her to say that. When we found out we said yeah, doesn't surprise us that she's saying that. In fact, we knew from the outset it was a risk, which is why she and DH have never been alone together. If someone wants to investigate then so be it, false allegations happen and they know that. We had NO way to prove that DH did NOT do this, but in the end it was blatantly obvious she was doing it for attention and to escalate her victimhood status. I wouldn't get too worried about it.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
We don't really know a lot about this particular friend. She lives a couple of blocks away and they go to school together. She's hung out with her here in the neighborhood before, but that's about it. I definitely wouldn't consider her a confidant.

have they gotten closer recently? she must consider her a close friend since she is sharing all that stuff with her. and they are cutting together... its not something that comes up in casual conversation... not to mention its generally something someone would do alone... esp. since any friend worth having would tell your parents. mine did. is she still hanging out with her other friends? sorry i am prying you don't have to answer at all... its just that at her age i wrote a few letters almost identical to hers and the bolded parts were not true for me either. the lying, cutting, porn, sex etc.were also things i did. though i lied the most.... including (maybe even especially) telling my friend i was doing a bunch of stuff i wasn't & that my parents were doing horribe things that they werent. i wasnt trying to hurt my family i was just to young and to be honest had to sheltered (not in a bad way actually in a good way) to understand the seriousness of my words & actions.

She hasn't even seen that friend in a few weeks. They used to hang out more, but then she just stopped.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
I have a 19yo who was very similar to this at this age. If I had it to do all over again I'd...

1) Intervene faster and take it all more seriously. In the interest of attempting to give her space, I let too much go that should have been addressed more professionally up the chain of command, so to speak. So I applaud you for getting her intensive help NOW.

2) Give her the emotional space from YOU that she's trying to create in an unhealthy way. This was another thing I don't think I did as well as I could have. Consider connecting with Big Brother's and Big Sister's of America and getting her a Big Sister as a mentor to connect with and do fun things with. It's ok if she isn't feeling like sharing these things with you, part of rebelling is distancing yourself from the family.

3) As for whether or not she is BPD? Who knows. She could be an angst ridden teen who feels emotions on hyperdrive. She could be genuinely suicidal. She could be genuinely depressed. She could be enjoying wallowing in the depths of despair. There's no way to know until she's an adult. I can tell you that my 19yo is DEFINITELY BPD. The pathological lying was unreal and people who haven't experienced it first hand just do NOT get it.

I'm sorry you are having to go through this mama. You have my thoughts and my support. Please keep posting. MDC kept me sane through so much of this hell. I've got two kiddos who are off the deep end in psych-ville so I know how hard it is.
























ETA: Also wanted to share w/you that my 19yo told everyone who would listen that she'd been "having an affair" with my DH (her stepdad) since she was 12 (when we got married). The only thing you can do with that is NOT give it power by acting as if it's a big crisis for her to say that. When we found out we said yeah, doesn't surprise us that she's saying that. In fact, we knew from the outset it was a risk, which is why she and DH have never been alone together. If someone wants to investigate then so be it, false allegations happen and they know that. We had NO way to prove that DH did NOT do this, but in the end it was blatantly obvious she was doing it for attention and to escalate her victimhood status. I wouldn't get too worried about it.

Thank you for all that. Great ideas, and it's so nice to know others have been through these things as well.

Today at the family session I brought up the letter with the case manager. I let her know, again, that I am so worried about her lying. It's been going for years. The case manager talked to her about it. The case manager believes that the letter she wrote is just a part of her fantasy world. She seems to have a hard time realizing where her stories and books end, and real life begins. So right now we're all working on the belief that she is not sexually active, but also doesn't know appropriate actions.







Heck, she was caught passing notes with a 15 yr old boy during a group counseling today. She was talking with this boy she JUST MET about hiding from the staff so they could kiss "and stuff". Ugh ugh ugh.


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## onlygirls (Mar 16, 2008)

I don't have advice, but it sounds like you are doing everything you can to help your DD get through this. Use the family therapy and resources so you have an outlet.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

it will get better you dd knows you love her unconditionally and whether she realizes it conciously or not she knows your doing your very best for her. remember to be gentle with yourself


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
We don't really know a lot about this particular friend. She lives a couple of blocks away and they go to school together. She's hung out with her here in the neighborhood before, but that's about it. I definitely wouldn't consider her a confidant.

I do love her and I haven't said anything to her about being angry. I've only told her I'm worried and want her to get better. I don't even know if I'm angry though. I'm in shock. I'm worried. I'm overwhelmed. But angry? Trust is gone though... and that's going to be hard to overcome.

I had to pick up DH because there was no way I could handle DD1, DD2, and DD3 all at the ER alone.

Thankfully this program is helping us with referrals for outpatient therapies and groups. We're going to be making big changes here in the house, but I do also have 2 younger children to take care of. *And not much support here.* I'm not working though thankfully, so I don't have to deal with that too. *We're planning on sleeping in the living room when she comes home. There is no way out except through the living room.
*
I've been trying like crazy to think when any abuse may have occurred if it did. I just can't think of anyone I would suspect. But that doesn't mean much, does it?









: Im so sorry you dont have more support through all of this!









Are you scared of her running away?

I was just asking because in her letter that was an issue to her, that she didnt have any privacy or maybe couldnt trust that your DH wouldn't find aout about everything, maybe?

It sounds like with the quit friendship with this girl and now the note to this guy, that she is really desperate for friends and people to like her, and lonley. Poor thing.

Have you asked her what is going on? Have you talked to her about the cutting and asked ehr why she does it? Have you asked her why she is so sad?

I know my mother would get so aggravated with the situation that alot of times instead of being understanding and supportive, her aggravation over took and everything came accross as anger and disappointment.

I really do hope everything works out. Sometimes those hospitals can be great places for kids. It gives them space away from their families, and someone to listen to them, and a group of peers that can all relate. But i would highly suggest that you look into extended therapy for once she gets out. Find a great person that she is comfortable talking to, and a psychiatrist that can closly monitor any medication she is given.








s:


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## fresh_veggie (Jan 27, 2009)

This is hard for me to read as it seems like yesterday for me...

I was in your daughter's shoes - but my parents never helped me. They ignored what I was doing to myself because they had their own problems (mom's alcoholic/depressed/med abuser). But I destroyed myself and it's taken 7 years to get where I am now - and I'm lucky.

I don't have a ton of expert advice, except that you're doing the right thing with intervention, mama. Help now, even if she doesn't want the help. She will come to know in time that you love her and want what's best for her, and even if the trust may be gone, she needs to feel that unconditional love that you have for her, your baby.

Hugs, hugs, hugs and prayers for your family.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

I'm having doubts that this program is going to really work for DD. The CM (case manager) for the session today (different one than before) was talking like DD might be sent home in a couple days. But I don't feel any of her real problems have been addressed. The family sessions are all about getting us to communicate better. Well that's all fine and good, but what about the fact that she has a strong history of lying? What about the fact that even in the sessions she's lying about silly things? What about the fact that she seems to have been living in a fantasy world? (Seriously, we found several notes in DD's handwriting that are supposedly between her and another person. And several notes written to a friend mentioning DD in the third person and signed with a different name, but again in DD's distinctive handwriting.) And it sounds like they haven't addressed the porn and sexual stories and cybering except in passing, like - "You shouldn't be talking about sex with someone you barely/don't even know".

We haven't even been able to talk to the doctor. I just feel like this program wants to hear her say enough times that she won't hurt herself. Not really *help* her. And even though at admission they said they'd get her set up for outpatient stuff, so far there's been no more mention or knowledge of that.

Oh, and today I found out a few things I'm not pleased with.

1. I was called yesterday by a nurse and told DD was being increased to 20mg of Celexa starting today. I gave my permission. Well today she still was given 10mg. I asked about it and was told, oh they decided to wait until tomorrow to increase her. So, if there is a chance they want to release her tomorrow they aren't even going to monitor her on the new dosage???

2. She said she and her roommate pushed their beds together last night. Well considering DD's notes, and stories, etc about sexual encounters I would really think they would put a stop to that. Likely nothing inappropriate was going on, but they can't watch them ALL night.

3. When we were admitting her we were told they could only get incoming calls from parents and grandparents. We asked about outgoing calls and were told it was up to us. We said we absolutely didn't want her making calls because we suspect her friends are part of the problem. Well today she told us she found out they were allowed to make calls and had called her friend J, which is a boy we've told them over and over she has an unhealthy obsession with. I'm furious! After DD went back to her room I went and talked to a nurse who said the calls aren't monitored in any way. She said all they can do is tell DD we won't let her make calls. Well crap. That would kind of be a step back, ya know? She shouldn't have ever been able to make those calls. If it never happened it wouldn't be a concern, but for them to say NOW that we won't let her?

So anyway, yeah. I am having serious concerns about doubts about this program right now. But we're so limited on what we can do. We don't have medicaid yet, or insurance, so we can't even move her anywhere. I want DD to get better and come home. Definitely. But I need to know she IS getting better. I have 2 other kids I have to think about yet. She'd been viewing porn with DD2 in the room. I can't have that. Yes, I'm going to put parental controls on the computer, and likely will reduce her computer time again (only for school probably). But then what will happen? I can't have DD exposed to stuff like that.

ARGH! I feel like my hands are tied. I feel like I'm not getting very good communication from the program. And I just don't know what to do about it.


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Your daughter has serious mental issues, and seems to be showing all of the signs of someone who _has_ been molested. _*This definitely needs to be looked into*_. She needs you now more than ever. Do not give up on your child.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Um, well since she's at an inpatient mental health facility I don't really know what more we can do. I hope I'm just feeling sensitive right now, but your comment really reads to me like you think we're not doing enough.

The counselors at the facility have indicated they don't believe she's been molested. The first CM has said to us she believes the possible promiscuity is related to other issues. But that's as far as they've gone on it.


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## Shenjall (Sep 14, 2002)

Oh amydidit, I cant give you enough hugs right now.

I have a 15yr old ds who followed the same path (still is). Lying, running away, drugs, obession with sex and death, you name it. We've been doing everything we can, everything we've been told to do and then told that we're not trying hard enough. Its brutal. (as you know)

We finally had him admitted to a mental health facility that we *thought* we be good. Hey, they talked a great game, but when it came down to it, it was more smoke blowing. It sucked.
We've come to realize that the journey is like a ladder, 1 step up, 2 steps down. We meet people that help us and bring us higher, and then we meet someone who knocks us down.

Gosh, I hope I'm not bringing you down, thats not my point. I just realllly want you to know that I understand, I really do. And I certainly dont think you're not trying hard enough or not standing by your dd. I know you are.









Things are slightly better with my ds, its been a very long road, and its still going. Getting her into the facility, while it may not be helpful to her right now, I think will help build a "case" for getting into the better, more helpful facilities.

Ask me anything you want to. I'm here.








laura


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Ok I'm going to give this a shot mama...

1. I dont think she's been molested either, for many many reasons.

2. ER Psych wards are for getting through the EMERGENCY only. You have to take charge of the situation, don't expect them to do anything more than the minimum, which is stabilize the child so they aren't a risk to self or others. Once that goal is met, the emergency is over and discharge happens immediately.

3. Be your own family's advocate. Ask about discharge planning. Ask about wraparound services. Ask about IFP services (Intensive Family Preservation). Ask about therapeutic referrals. Ask about outpatient therapy options. Ask about day treatment programs. Ask about alternative placement options. Contact her school and meet with her teachers and the school counselor, get them on board and involved 100%.

3.b. Can you meet with the parents of the other kids? I'm just tossing out some brainstorm ideas on that...

4. File a complaint about her being allowed to call unapproved people, and send it up the chain of command. Toss around the phrase 'violation of HIPPA law' and that should see some results. That was unacceptable.

5. The therapy sessions on unit are NOT going to fully address anything. They just 'crisis screen' and discharge to pending services. Don't expect much to be resolved there on unit, you're going to have to do some serious therapy at home too.

6. Get medicaid going asap, it's a HUGE help with this because a lot of services are medicaid only...how much longer will that be before it's approved?

7. I know this is a crisis time for you, but please take some time with her out of the home and take care of yourself. Turn off the phones, take a long hot bath, cry a bit, rage a bit, eat some Ben and Jerry's, and read a good book. She'll be home soon enough, and she needs you in top performance so that she can get on track.

I'll think of more...good luck mama, keep us posted, you are doing ALL THE RIGHT THINGS!!!


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
Um, well since she's at an inpatient mental health facility I don't really know what more we can do. I hope I'm just feeling sensitive right now, but your comment really reads to me like you think we're not doing enough.

The counselors at the facility have indicated they don't believe she's been molested. The first CM has said to us she believes the possible promiscuity is related to other issues. But that's as far as they've gone on it.

My comment was in response to this:

Quote:

I don't know why DD is so screwed up. I don't know why DD seems to want to tear apart this family. I don't care either. I don't think this is something that can ever be healed between us.
I read it as : You don't know why she is screwed up and you don't care. Obviously I took that statement wrong. When I read your post, I saw myself at that age, very similar to your child and I was molested... but no one bothered to look into that possibility.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
Ok I'm going to give this a shot mama...

1. I dont think she's been molested either, for many many reasons.

2. ER Psych wards are for getting through the EMERGENCY only. You have to take charge of the situation, don't expect them to do anything more than the minimum, which is stabilize the child so they aren't a risk to self or others. Once that goal is met, the emergency is over and discharge happens immediately.

She's not in the ER psych ward anymore. The program she's in now is an adolescent inpatient behavioral health facility. I didn't expect this to be long term, but was hoping they'd at least try to make sure she was stable.

3. Be your own family's advocate. Ask about discharge planning. Ask about wraparound services. Ask about IFP services (Intensive Family Preservation). Ask about therapeutic referrals. Ask about outpatient therapy options. Ask about day treatment programs. Ask about alternative placement options. Contact her school and meet with her teachers and the school counselor, get them on board and involved 100%.

We've asked about discharge planning, but all they say is they won't know until the day she's discharged when it will be. Everything we ask about we're brushed aside on. I haven't heard of IFP, so I'll look into that more. We have contacted her school and no one will call us back. We've tried several times. We even went in on Friday morning and tried to speak with either the counselor or principal. Neither would be bothered to talk the time to meet with us. We're going to have to proceed with a formal complaint to the district next.

3.b. Can you meet with the parents of the other kids? I'm just tossing out some brainstorm ideas on that...

We don't know their last names. Most are kids she only sees at school. And she won't tell us who they are. If we could ever get to speak with someone at the school we're going to at least tell them first names. Hopefully they're in her classes, or the teachers will know who she hangs out with, so they can proceed with it. Hopefully.

4. File a complaint about her being allowed to call unapproved people, and send it up the chain of command. Toss around the phrase 'violation of HIPPA law' and that should see some results. That was unacceptable.

That's a good idea.

5. The therapy sessions on unit are NOT going to fully address anything. They just 'crisis screen' and discharge to pending services. Don't expect much to be resolved there on unit, you're going to have to do some serious therapy at home too.

Well I certainly don't expect everything to be resolved. But I'm feeling like they aren't doing much of anything at all.

6. Get medicaid going asap, it's a HUGE help with this because a lot of services are medicaid only...how much longer will that be before it's approved?

I have an appointment to finish it up on the 27th. They're basically approved already, but I just have to get some more info for them (birth certificate and SS card for DD2, and register DD3's birth) before it's officially completed.

7. I know this is a crisis time for you, but please take some time with her out of the home and take care of yourself. Turn off the phones, take a long hot bath, cry a bit, rage a bit, eat some Ben and Jerry's, and read a good book. She'll be home soon enough, and she needs you in top performance so that she can get on track.

Oh I love the sound of that. Would be easier if I didn't have DD2 and DD3 to deal with all the time. But I think I'm going to abandon DH with the kids for a bit and do it.

I'll think of more...good luck mama, keep us posted, you are doing ALL THE RIGHT THINGS!!!









Thank you for your help!


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amylcd* 
I read it as : You don't know why she is screwed up and you don't care. Obviously I took that statement wrong. When I read your post, I saw myself at that age, very similar to your child and I was molested... but no one bothered to look into that possibility.

I can understand that. I was angry when I wrote that and did some venting. I do definitely care and want her to get better. Thank you for explaining.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Yeah I've had that same issue with various treatment programs. Frustrating. Infuriating. Totally. Vent away!

So they are saying there's no discharge plan in place, and they have NO clue when she'll be discharged? What is their ALoS? What is their criteria for discharge? What happens when you ask direct questions to these people, do they answer or hem and haw? If you can't get a clear answer, ask who their supervisor is and start moving up the ranks. I've found over the years of dealing with this that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so start squeaking!

What level of care is she at? Inpatient behavioral health still sounds like the psychiatric hospital....how is it different? Is it that there's an emergency psych level and a fully admitted inpatient psych level? I'm asking because it matters regarding what to expect. DS could only be emergency psych for 72 hours, then he had to either be discharged or admitted to the unit. They admitted him, and said most kids stay 2-5 days at most. He was there two weeks...and needed it, but it still sucked.

More brainstorming, but can you change schools to another one in the district? Call the local school Administrative building and talk directly to the superintendent to discuss your concerns and what options you have. Let them know the school isn't communicating, despite your efforts. Use lots of teacher speak like 'best interests of my child' and 'addressing areas of concerning behavior in an effort to maximize her success potential' and crap like that.

Also, Medicaid won't tell you this, but you have the right to disagree with the current plan of action/care. You can call them and request a Case Review Conference, which will require the current placement representative, Medicaid, and you to participate all via phone in and discuss the issue and placement options and alternatives, including services offered and recommendations.

I'm still thinking...I've been down this road so many times, I'm glad it turns out it'll help SOMEONE LOL


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
Yeah I've had that same issue with various treatment programs. Frustrating. Infuriating. Totally. Vent away!

So they are saying there's no discharge plan in place, and they have NO clue when she'll be discharged? What is their ALoS? What is their criteria for discharge? What happens when you ask direct questions to these people, do they answer or hem and haw? If you can't get a clear answer, ask who their supervisor is and start moving up the ranks. I've found over the years of dealing with this that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so start squeaking!

What level of care is she at? Inpatient behavioral health still sounds like the psychiatric hospital....how is it different? Is it that there's an emergency psych level and a fully admitted inpatient psych level? I'm asking because it matters regarding what to expect. DS could only be emergency psych for 72 hours, then he had to either be discharged or admitted to the unit. They admitted him, and said most kids stay 2-5 days at most. He was there two weeks...and needed it, but it still sucked.

More brainstorming, but can you change schools to another one in the district? Call the local school Administrative building and talk directly to the superintendent to discuss your concerns and what options you have. Let them know the school isn't communicating, despite your efforts. Use lots of teacher speak like 'best interests of my child' and 'addressing areas of concerning behavior in an effort to maximize her success potential' and crap like that.

Also, Medicaid won't tell you this, but you have the right to disagree with the current plan of action/care. You can call them and request a Case Review Conference, which will require the current placement representative, Medicaid, and you to participate all via phone in and discuss the issue and placement options and alternatives, including services offered and recommendations.

I'm still thinking...I've been down this road so many times, I'm glad it turns out it'll help SOMEONE LOL

The only people we've been given access to talk to at the program are 2 case managers. They say the doctor decides each morning if the child is ready to be discharged or not. If he decides the child is, they go home that day. No advance notice or preparation. The only criteria they've mentioned is believing the child won't hurt themselves or others physically. What is ALoS?

I'm not sure what *level* she is at. When the ER, or doctor, or whoever, decides a child needs inpatient care (for behavioral, mental, or substance abuse reasons) they are admitted to a different location. http://www.parkviewmc.com/pmc.nsf/vi...hiatricprogram
I'm so new to this I didn't know what questions to ask, or what to expect.

There is only one other middle school in the district and they don't have buses in our area. It's the school DD went to last year, and they are just as bad at communication as the one she's at now. We're definitely going to let them know that the school isn't communicating though. It's just unacceptable.

Thanks for the info about medicaid. I feel so lost in all this. I don't know the right people to talk too, the right questions, resources, etc. It's so nice to have people I can ask who've been through these things before.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Ok the link helps! First, email the three listed on that main page. Professionally describe the situation, your child is currently inpatient, you are concerned at the immediacy of their discharge planning, and it is imperative you are able to recieve at least 24 hours notice of discharge in order to secure services and resources for your child and family. Also ask who you need to speak with to schedule a case plan review. List the names of who you have already spoken to on the phone, and ask that you recieve an email 'at their earliest convenience' in order to keep communication open. Stress in the email that you appreciate their efforts with your child (try not to barf lol) but you have some concerns that need to be addressed regarding aftercare planning.

ALoS: Average Length Of Stay...sorry bout that, I get going and forget to clarify!

Also, ask what psych testing has been completed, and insist that she recieve battery testing prior to discharge, in order to 'fully appreciate the challenges she is facing'. I'm putting that in quotes because it makes it clear you are an involved and concerned parent without placing blame on the facility.

Has she been officially diagnosed with anything? If not, they will be under the gun to discharge sooner rather than later.

Also, it says they have partial care...you want to get her discharged to that program. That should be a day program lasting about a week or two that involves her being at home but in their treatment center during the day for school and services.

Definitely push the issue of what the discharge plan is. My experience is that to talk to the actual psychiatrist takes an act of god and congress combined. Be persistent, but get a hold of them and make your concerns clear.

As for the school, I'd suggest going Monday to the office and not leaving until you meet with the counselor and schedule a team conference. Be firm but insistent. Take names, and get supervisor info from the start. Pleasant, courteous, but take no prisoners...it's not THEIR kid on the line, so you have to be more stubborn than them.

FWIW, I think your DD will be ok. I realize there are a lot of horrible things going on right now, but you are doing the right things, and while it might not seem like it right now, I think it matters to her. Remember, as rough as this is, it's the END result...what she's like when she's 30....that's what really matters. Keep it in perspective...you don't have to like her behaviors or her choices, but keep sticking with it.

I forgot to ask, are you guys in family therapy?


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

well, i am sitting here wanting to give hugs & some insight.

i am *pretty* sure my mother could have written your post 16 years ago when i was12.

i had been traumatized by her remarriage, then pressured by a boyfriend to go further sexually than i wanted, then traumatized by a really scary sermon at church about going to hell.

i think i was depressed, lonely, self conscious, etc. i was traumatized, but i dont think 90%of people in my situation would have been.

I have always been dramatic, sensitive, artistic. I have wrote letters to myself "from" others and so on... i, at 12, may have written long stories that were all false... I can still get lost in a storyline and write and write and write. a lot about sex, alot about death....

Maybe there is a lot going on that she doesnt understand, maybe she has all these crazy thoughts, feelings and no where to go with them...maybe they scare her too.

a pp said something that rang true for me- she may lie so as not to engage.

I used to lie all the time about bowls in my room. I would say there were none, hide them and plan to wash them the next day so i could save myself from the ensuing convo. then i would forget, my mom would find them and freak out.

i would look for a community role model for her- like big sisters, etc....

she probably doesnt feel like she fits anywhere.

she sounds sensitive and sad.

oh, and i also remember one time- my best friends dad who was always great to us was leaving the house for a run, and were leaving for church, he went to wave good bye, i turned to get in the car and he partially grazed my chest.

mortified. didnt go there for weeks. i was convinced he was going to hit on me. bc that boy that pressured me- started "innocently" and its all about triggers, kwim?

im naking so sorry if i am rambling....

good luck mama...


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Can i ask what city you are in?

Have you looked into a Dr that works at a childrens hospital?

Is the hospital she is in geared for drug abuse or mental issues?
I ask that because the 3 that i went to where more geared twards drug addict, IMOF i think that i was the only one there that wasnt using drugs regularly (by that i mean i was 15 and had smoked pot on occasion).

Are you using insurance?
If you look into most insurance coverages they will not cover your child to be admitted for usually longer than 2 weeks. Pretty much until the DR thinks that the threat of harm is out of the way. So no matter what you know she needs, the hospitals are not going o let her stay because they know that they are not going to get paid.

Is there a long term placement for adolescents? After i was admitted for suicide (although i never tried, i was just really really really sad) in a lock down facility, i was put into a treatment center for about 2 months, where i would "go to school" there. They would come pick me up from my home and then we would go to school there and have intense counciling sessions and 1 on 1 with the Dr.

And then i went to a boarding school of sorts, called Happy Hill Farm (you can google it....but it was anything but happy ill tell you that right now LOL!) I lived there with other kids, in a kind of compound, where we all had issues. And we had house parents and went to school and had a much stricter schedule.......well basically my parents couldnt handle me anymore, and where scared of where i was leading my life and i was put in a safe place. I was there for 10 months....would have been longer but i got kicked out.....long story but it was really religious, and the owners where just in it to make money and exploited us as poor unwanted children to get $$$ from notations from the Texas Cowboys.

Has she been seeing a therapist or psychologist before all of this?


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## Labyrinth (Apr 14, 2008)

hospitalizations are short- I would be shocked and amazed if they kept her longer than a week. This is the norm of practice in the US for non-psychotic youth in hospital settings. A residential setting would provide a longer program, but they are harder to get into. In my experience kids are better off in the long run in intensive community based care, although it can be hard to come by.

Can you get her into the partial hospitalization program? That should be your next step if you can get her in. Here, SASS funds both inpatient and partial hospitalization care for uninsured kids- I'm not sure what your funding is, I hope it is as good or better than what we have here.

All of this is a stop gap. She will NOT be fully stable and probably not even reasonably safe at discharge. Most kids are not.

Remember, this is a medical disorder. It sounds like your daughter is dealing with some level of delusional behavior, suicidal behavior, and hypersexualised behavior. There are definitely causes of this outside of sexual abuse, and no one here can say she was or was not abused (I say that as a survivor of sexual abuse). She needs care, intense supervision, and treatment. A hospital is NOT going to be providing her with the care, supervision, or treatment she needs for the length of time she needs. She will be discharged likely about the same as she was admitted. Regardless of if that is right or wrong, the bulk of her care, her "treatment", is going to have to happen at home.

This is just as serious, and can be just as deadly as if she had an illness like cancer. The treatment, medical and psychosocial, will likely be as hard as for a medical disorder. Somehow, the supervision needs to be there to make sure she does not hurt herself during her first few weeks home. If you can recruit other family members to help, if your DH can take time off of work to care for your other children, please do do so. It would be too much for anyone to handle on their own.

Please take gentle care.
-Nicole


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Talullahma....







thank you SO much for sharing







I can really identify with what you posted and I hope it gives the OP some encouragement to know you (and others) made it through that time in your life and are now a caring, sensitive mama









OP, FWIW, I don't think your kiddo as some deeply entrenched psychiatric disorder. I do think, from what you've said, she's got issues to address therapeutically...so my biggest encouragement is to find a therapist that you and she 'click' with and begin the long process of her coming out of this. She will make mistakes along the way, it's part of the journey, but I do think there's a light at the end of the tunnel for your family. It might be a rough road for a few years, but keep believing in her by fighting for her.

We're here for you mama


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Labyrinth said:


> Remember, this is a medical disorder. It sounds like your daughter is dealing with some level of delusional behavior, suicidal behavior, and hypersexualised behavior. There are definitely causes of this outside of sexual abuse, and no one here can say she was or was not abused (I say that as a survivor of sexual abuse). She needs care, intense supervision, and treatment. A hospital is NOT going to be providing her with the care, supervision, or treatment she needs for the length of time she needs. She will be discharged likely about the same as she was admitted. Regardless of if that is right or wrong, the bulk of her care, her "treatment", is going to have to happen at home.
> /quote]
> 
> 
> ...


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## joyluc (May 31, 2007)

Your state Department of Human Services has a Division of Behavioral Health that oversees the facilities in your state. There is a Consumer Advocate there who may be helpful to you if you are having so many problems with the facility.

I know you are overwhelmed and doing this all at once seems impossible. When you have a chance you might want to reach out the the local chapter of the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI), they will know about support groups and processes in your area.

Sorry if I have been intrusive but the link helped me see how things work in your state. I work for county government in another state and it is true that people who advocate for themselves and their LOs have a better chance to get what they need. Not fair or easy to deal with but true. You can do this, we are all here for you.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

i am apalled by the problems you are having with the psych hospital. i worked in the female adolescent crisis stabilization unit in a psychiatric hospital and the things you described would never have been acceptable. the girls all had their own rooms but even if they didnt the bedd thing would never have happened and phone calls were very very strictly monitored. our alos was supposed to be 3-5 days but it was usually longer. that was also just our unit... b/c we were crisis stabilization there were other more longterm units that maybea you could talk to the social worker about.

you might be able to find another hospital or another unit in that hospital that can better help your DD but insurance can be a battle for long term psych care. some of them dont like to pay after the danger is not immediately life threatening. my best friends mom fought wicked battles with her ins. comp. over this & still paid alot out o pocket but for my friend it was the best decision. she ended up being inpatient for around 3mos during our sophmore year of high school..i thin they paid off all the bills around our sophmore year of college. the hospital worked with them though.. yourss might too.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

No advice here, just hugs. Your DD sounds like a more severe version of my teenage years, and I wish so badly that my parents had taken me seriously and gone and got some help for me. Thank you for being there for her.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Has she ever been assessed for bipolar disorder? So much of what you are writing is just SCREAMING bipolar disorder to me. Please PM me or e-mail me at if you want more info. Not only am I the mom of a child with bipolar disorder but I was a bipolar adolescent girl and she sounds so much like what I was like it's scary. If she is bipolar, being on an anti-depressant will make it much worse. I hope I hear from you and good luck.


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## Labbemama (May 23, 2008)

Yes given her hyper-sexual behavior and inpatient status the hospital should be doing 15 minute bed checks. That is also standard on someone who has made suicidal threats if they don't have a 1:1 staff. I'm still wondering what teen boys and girls are doing on the same unit for group.

but yeah the quick discharge is pretty typical. Hosptialization is just for actue care-meaning the child is a danger to themselves or others and the hospital may very well want to keep them but the governing bodies at the insurance have very strict procedures that often IMHO expel kids too soon.

I would suggest a residential program for her because it sounds like that these could be mental health issues (Bipolar disorder for example) or PTSD or if it is all lies then she has Cluster B personality traits (tendencies towards a personality disorder but she is under 18) and no, that's not going to get fixed in a week or a month or even a year.

What are the qualifications of these case managers? Are they bachelor's level social workers? Master's level counselors or social workers? You should have some contact with the doctor or atleast the psychiatrist's nurse practitioner. (IMHO, some hospital psychiatrists are like the great OZ and are almost unreachable.) but at very least they owe you some kind of reasoning why they put your kid on an anti-depressant.

And a lot of times the anti-depressants have sexual side effects and if they lift the mood of a bipolar kid too much you get a kid with pretty low self-control in many aspects...sexuality being one of 'em.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Sorry I haven't checked back here in a while. It's been a tough week.

DD was released on Monday evening. I expressed concern over her release, and DD even told the CM she didn't feel like she should leave. But the doctor had listed in her chart that she wasn't a danger anymore, so she was sent home.

So far she isn't isolating in her room as much, and doesn't act as depressed, but I suspect it's just that... an act. Her diagnosis was "major depression". Um, I'm VERY familiar with clinical depression in children and adults. I've gone through it. There are some parts of her behavior that depression doesn't address.

When they released her they hadn't yet set up an outpatient appointment. Even though that's something we were told they would do. So on Tuesday I had to call and set up an outpatient counselor for her. I was able to get her in that night. The counselor seemed nice, but I didn't get to talk to him much. I did ask him if our concerns about being out of touch with reality were in her chart he received. And nope, it wasn't mentioned at all. Even though we told more than one person about it, and showed them notes and letters she wrote that confirmed it.

Until she's finalized on medicaid no one seems willing to even talk to me about options. I asked about a residential program or parital hospitalization, and they just fluffed me off. Sadly I think we've checked all options that Pueblo has. The next nearest place is in Colorado Springs, and from what I've heard, they aren't much better. The place a friend of mine suggested is in Denver. And we just don't have the money to make regular trips to Denver (either for daily/weekly treatment, or for visits if it was residential).

All in all, this is very frustrating.

To answer a couple questions I saw:
I only know the background of one of the CMs, and she had a Masters. I don't know about anyone else.

The only people we were *allowed* to talk with were the CMs, and the discharge nurse. I did speak with the doctor for about 5 minutes when I relayed my concerns about paxil and we chose celexa instead. Other than that, everytime I called I was denied permission to speak with him.

Bipolar. For a while I didn't think it could be. I've looked at symptoms of bipolar and she didn't quite match. But now, I'm wondering. But the doctor (from his total of 20 minutes literally with her over the course of the week) claims it's ONLY major depression. I'm hoping the counselor she's seeing now will be open to looking further into it.

Oh, and the bed thing. The first 3 days she was on precautions and they checked on her every 15 minutes, day and night. But after that she was off precautions and the checks stopped. That's when they pushed the beds together.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Geez mama, how infuriating. Definitely get them moving on the medicaid issue asap. Just be that major PITA until it gets done.

Keep us posted, I've been wondering about how you're hanging in there


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

I have an appointment tomorrow to take in the rest of what I need. And then we wait for a decision. She'll either get medicaid or CHP+.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

The lying, the hypersexuality - these are symptoms of the manic or hypomanic phase of bipolar disorder. Not to be rude but 20 minutes is not enough to assess for bipolar. My son's assessment was over 20 hours. I would seriously look more into bipolar disorder and have her start keeping mood charts and you keep diaries of things you notice that are off. She may be bipolar II which doesn't have full blown mania, instead it has hypomania, which is just as damaging but less severe. It is not uncommon for a person with bipolar to go 5-8 years with the wrong diagnosis before they get the proper one.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

I know it's been a while, but this is still (of course) going on. DD's counselor decided to see her every two weeks now, so she saw no one this week. Not until Wednesday. DD is having a very hard time of things. She has admitted she's not going to cooperate with the counselor anyway. But doesn't want to feel this way. She says she feels very violent whenever she gets mad. And she gets mad a LOT. She definitely has days though where she acts bouncy, energetic, excessively fast talk, etc. And then has days where she is crying and angry all the time. She even hit DD2 with keys hard enough to break skin and cause a welt. DD1 claimed it was an accident, but DD2 told us the truth. She's not alone with DD2 anymore of course.

I feel helpless. The hospital and counselors she's seen don't think she needs inpatient help, or even partial hospitalization. Heck, they don't even think she needs weekly counseling. They won't listen to my concerns at all. So now I'm dealing with a violent 12 yr old in a house with two younger girls too. I don't know how to keep them safe, get DD1 the help she needs, and maintain my own sanity (I have anxiety and panic disorder as well as severe depression myself).

I just needed to vent again I think.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

A family I nannied for years ago had a kid act like this (years after I left, my nannying is unrelated). It ended up being a medical issue, as in, either cysts or endometriosis, something like that, that was messing up her hormones. Once they got that under control, she returned to normal.

May be worth looking into.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

We're trying to get her in to see a medical doctor as well. While at the ER before they said she had a heart murmur and we're trying to follow up on it. But we're having a problem getting her an appointment because the clinic set her with the wrong primary so we can't get her an appointment until it's fixed. Which can take another 3 weeks.







I'll be sure to have them check that as well though. Thanks for the idea!


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## harrietsmama (Dec 10, 2001)

I hope things come of the doctor visit that are helpful, I'm so sorry to hear no one is hearing you. Sometimes you have to be obnoxious to get attention unfortunately. I have dealt with this myself, trying to get help before I was dx'd. Good luck!


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## papayapetunia (Feb 6, 2006)

Sounds like me at about that age. I was pretty affected by being abandoned by my dad. If you would have asked me at the time if that's what the problem was, I'd have said no. But after years of growing up, I can look back and see that I felt rejected and out of place my entire life. As an adolescent, I didn't have the maturity to be rational about it all. I just felt an intense need for acceptance, and weirdly, I became extremely hard to tolerate, which was really because I felt like if I rejected everyone first or if I purposely acted like I didn't want anyone's acceptance, I wouldn't have to care when I wasn't accepted. My parents ended up sending me to one of those lovely religious homes that a pp mentioned going to. I stayed for three years of torture, and so it took me that much longer to heal from all of the pain.


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

I guess I''d be looking at what will work for the future sanity of your family as a whole, as well as meeting this girl's needs. I'd probably be looking for a good boarding school equipped to meet her needs. I say that having grown up in those schools with parents who were teachers and dorm parents in those schools. I know there are some terrible misconceptions, as well as some truly bad schools, but in my experience, there are some amazing schools that can provide a structure and safety no normal home can provide.

Sometimes kids need to be in a different setting to succeed, and they need people to call them on the lying etc in a way someone as close as a parent just can't do.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

: for your dd right now








for you


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