# Holding baby in arms in back seat.



## Maluhia (Jun 24, 2007)

So DH and I were driving back from the beach the other day and we'd made a commitment not to carry our cell phones on Saturdays so we could focus on family time (our iPhones call us at the oddest times to check Facebook and the like).

We had an awesome time and were driving down a Highway when we pulled up next to a BMW where two adults were in the front seat, a young woman (possibly mother of baby) was in the back seat and at the stop light proceeded to take the infant out of her carseat (I doubt she was buckled) and play with her until she looked over her shoulder and saw me making this exact face -







and quickly put the baby back in the seat (no buckle) as the light turned green.

I'd say the baby was 5 months old max.

The windows were up and I was one lane to the right 1/2 a car length behind her and after traffic moved we never got within 3 cars of her again. I could not figure out what else I could have done but it was AWFUL I kept thinking someone could not stop fast enough at this group of cars and that baby would be a rocket


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## Tari Mithrandir (Sep 22, 2008)

You can't buy brains... Unfortunately







:


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

nak

i know we are all entitled to our stupid child rearing moments but really?

nothing you can do but make that face, she knew what she was doing and that she shouldn't be.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Well, you can grab the plate and call 911. In most states it is illegal to not have a child properly restrained in a moving vehicle.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

I think that was the point of saying they didn't have their phones with them... they couldn't call 911.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Do you mean she waited until the car stopped? But you think she only put the baby back in b/c you made a face at her, or she was just getting the baby out during the light?

I still wouldn't be comfortable w/ that (imagine getting rear ended) but if the vehicle was stopped...what could you have done??


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

At the risk of sounding like the crazy person when I truly don't have a strong opinion either way: <deep breath>
Since becoming a parent I've been surprised to see how we're the only culture that is really crazy about car seats. I'm not sure if other cultures don't believe they're safer, they don't think accidents can happen, or if it's more comfort with higher risk. But I've met a lot of people lately who think it's a little funny, what a science Americans turn car seats into (paying an extra $100 for the Britex, getting a professional to train you how to use it, etc.). The authors of Freakonomics cite data that says that car seats don't do a lot to increase safety for children, that it's much more important for the child to be in the back seat. I haven't done a lot of research on the issue, but these two things have surprised me.

I was just in a serious car accident with my toddler where he was safely in his professionally-installed $150 Evenflo, where I fretted each time I buckled him in whether I had done it well enough. And not a scratch on him. I was sure glad I had him in it.


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## fromtheheart (Jun 16, 2008)

When I see parents doing things that seem wrong to me (not hurting the child, but YNWIM) I just have to believe there was some reason.

Maybe the baby was choking on spit up and the woman thought she had to do something or her baby would choke to death?

Who knows? But I sometimes wish people knew why I do things when they are looking at me like - What are you doing?!


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
At the risk of sounding like the crazy person when I truly don't have a strong opinion either way: <deep breath>
Since becoming a parent I've been surprised to see how we're the only culture that is really crazy about car seats. I'm not sure if other cultures don't believe they're safer, they don't think accidents can happen, or if it's more comfort with higher risk. But I've met a lot of people lately who think it's a little funny, what a science Americans turn car seats into (paying an extra $100 for the Britex, getting a professional to train you how to use it, etc.). The authors of Freakonomics cite data that says that car seats don't do a lot to increase safety for children, that it's much more important for the child to be in the back seat. I haven't done a lot of research on the issue, but these two things have surprised me.

First of all... we're not the ONLY culture. In Sweden, it's routine to stay rear-facing until age 4 or 5. (They do go to FF boosters after that, though.) It'd also be interesting to compare how much time our children spend in cars relative to other cultures; when I lived in the UK, our three-adult household had no car, and didn't need one, whereas many US children accompany their parents on their one-hour-each-way commute every day to hang out in the company daycare while mom or dad works. So maybe, statistically speaking, car seats aren't as "worth it" if a kid is only likely to be in a car a couple times a week for shorter trips, rather than spending two hours every weekday traveling by car.

Second, the data the Freakonomics guy cited was misinterpreted and out of context. There's a lot MORE data that show just how much lower injuries and deaths are for kids properly restrained in car seats during accidents.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

When I was about 14 maybe I was in the ER waiting some blood tests because of another flared up Kidney issue (a life long issue) while we were there some victums of a car accident were brought in.. in the car were 2 mothers and 3 kids.. two kids were buckled in a teenager with regular lap shoulder and an infant (7 months If I remember right) in the arms ofthe teenager in back. at the time of impact there was also an unrestrained child in back. The driver bukled in and the teeager suffered some serious abrasions and brusings from the impact and the seatbelts one the driver I think also crushed her wrist.. The child in back was thrown foward she was imediently taken into surgury I heard a long list of injury but not sure how bad.. The infant however was thrown from the sisters hand and the impact caused the child to go right through the windshield.. All i knew about the baby was they had careflighted the baby to another hospital in critical... I see babies unrestained ALL the time around here and I always have momories of that day in the ER...

Deanna


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## Keria (Sep 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fromtheheart* 
When I see parents doing things that seem wrong to me (not hurting the child, but YNWIM) I just have to believe there was some reason.

Maybe the baby was choking on spit up and the woman thought she had to do something or her baby would choke to death?

Who knows? But I sometimes wish people knew why I do things when they are looking at me like - What are you doing?!









:

Who knows, you can't really judge a parent over a couple of seconds you saw through the window of another car, maybe the safest thing for that baby was to be out of the seat at that moment.


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## dido1 (Aug 12, 2004)

I recently returned from Mexico and there were signs EVERYWHERE and tons of tv ad pleading for parents to put their children in proper car seats. Anyone who claims car seats are not responsible for decreased injuries to children during accidents has not done their research.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
When I was about 14 maybe I was in the ER waiting some blood tests because of another flared up Kidney issue (a life long issue) while we were there some victums of a car accident were brought in.. in the car were 2 mothers and 3 kids.. two kids were buckled in a teenager with regular lap shoulder and an infant (7 months If I remember right) in the arms ofthe teenager in back. at the time of impact there was also an unrestrained child in back. The driver bukled in and the teeager suffered some serious abrasions and brusings from the impact and the seatbelts one the driver I think also crushed her wrist.. The child in back was thrown foward she was imediently taken into surgury I heard a long list of injury but not sure how bad.. The infant however was thrown from the sisters hand and the impact caused the child to go right through the windshield.. All i knew about the baby was they had careflighted the baby to another hospital in critical... I see babies unrestained ALL the time around here and I always have momories of that day in the ER...

Deanna

I just got back from a roadtrip with my baby and my boyfriend. My baby had a really hard time in the carseat for part of the trip - we stopped as often as we could, but it just wasn't enough. We won't be going anywhere far for a while b/c of it.

My BF was telling me that his mother used to take he and his siblings out of their carseats when they were upset in the car - against the law at the time - so that they could keep going and they wouldn't cry. He kept telling me to do the same thing this weekend, and I refused. Thank you for posting this - I made him read it and told him that this is why I could never take Lincoln out of his carseat in the car - a few minutes/half hour of crying in the carseat with me in the backseat holding his hand and singing to him is SO SO SO much better than losing him. After I showed him your post he understood, and I doubt he will ever tell me to take him out again. Thanks for telling this story.


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## oursonend (Jan 30, 2006)

Ugh. Yesterday I saw a four to five-year-old in the front seat of a coupe in a regular seatbelt, leaned down so he was practically laying down with his feet up on the dash, with the backseat totally empty and available. Yeah, he wasn't booster ready. Might as well skip that step.







:


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
The authors of Freakonomics cite data that says that car seats don't do a lot to increase safety for children, that it's much more important for the child to be in the back seat. I haven't done a lot of research on the issue, but these two things have surprised me.
.

I read that book and it had to do with children over age 2. I still doubt it as they did their "own testing" (who knows what that involved!)

Here's a text for anyone who wants to look into this further. Please feel free to start another thread on the subject;

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/seat-belts/


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## Kristin0105 (Mar 1, 2008)

In our state it's legal to have a child out of the carseat if you are attending to their needs. Whatever that means.


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## Tari Mithrandir (Sep 22, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kristin0105* 
In our state it's legal to have a child out of the carseat if you are attending to their needs. Whatever that means.

I would guess that would mean feeding/changing/emergency situations (such as the aforementioned choking on spit up), but as it isn't clear cut, it could probably refer to just about anything.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

It would also probably be legal for me to feed a 5-month-old Happy Meals three times a day. What is legal and what is a safe and smart choice are not the same thing.


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

My bf lost her uncle, aunt, and three cousins a few years ago when they all perished in a land slide on a trip to Mexico. None were wearing seatbelts-- all would have survived.

Both the aunt and uncle were pediatricians but because they were visiting family and it was a rural area decided car seats were unecessary. The aunt had helped her pick out her car seat and had advised her to keep her son rf as long as possible. Sometimes people just make really poor choices...


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Shanna~* 
The authors of Freakonomics cite data that says that car seats don't do a lot to increase safety for children, that it's much more important for the child to be in the back seat. I haven't done a lot of research on the issue, but these two things have surprised me.

Huh. I hear this a lot from educated parents here in NZ (where children dying in car accidents is a fairly common occurrence), and it always makes me wonder why Sweden (my home country) has such low numbers of children dead or injured in traffic, despite _recommending_ that baby capsules, and I think any rear-facing seat, is placed in the front passenger seat (of course with the air-bag disconnected, but that is easy).


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## WC_hapamama (Sep 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
It would also probably be legal for me to feed a 5-month-old Happy Meals three times a day. What is legal and what is a safe and smart choice are not the same thing.

Absolutely.

I'm sure the rate of toddlers getting electrocuted by sticking things in electrical outlets is pretty low, but that doesn't stop me from using those safety covers in the outlet.

I managed to survive my childhood riding my bike, skateboard and rollerskates without a helmet with no life-threatening injuries, but that doesn't stop me from insisting that my kids wear helmets when they bike or skate.

When you know better, do better.

A carseat is cheaper than our medical insurance deductible, ER copays, or heaven forbid, funeral costs. A bike helmet costs about $25, also cheaper than an ER copay. It's a small price for a little added safety.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

The car was stopped, right?

I hope you didn't distract your dh from driving by commenting on the baby being out of the carseat. Because that would've been more dangerous to everyone involved than taking a baby out of its seat for 10 seconds in a stopped car.


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## Thandiwe (May 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
Well, you can grab the plate and call 911.









: That's what I'd do.


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## vegemamato (Jul 4, 2007)

Even though it sounds as if this was not the case...

I took my baby out of her seat when she was about 3 mos old (my first) because she was choking. My mom was driving, I was riding in the back, and K started vommiting, which caused her to choke. I pulled her out, managed to get her to breathe and held her soooo tightly- not even thinking about the fact that I should put her back









My mom pulled over within 2 minutes, I nursed, we buckled the babe and got going..

So- hopefully- the mama was doing something like this..

prolly not though


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## kay4 (Nov 30, 2004)

UGH no no no never!!!!!


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
The car was stopped, right?

I hope you didn't distract your dh from driving by commenting on the baby being out of the carseat. Because that would've been more dangerous to everyone involved than taking a baby out of its seat for 10 seconds in a stopped car.

Having been rear-ended HARD when stopped at a stoplight, I'm not sure I agree. I do routinely talk to my DH when driving, too. If he needs to tune me out and concentrate, he just does, and asks me to repeat whatever it is later.


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