# WWYD? DD quit ballet and we had to pay for it.



## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

DD has been going to ballet for 4 years. This was her choice completely. I never forced her or told her I wanted her to.

A dance studio opened in our area and we were walking by it one day. We went in to check it out and she wanted to go there. She started saying last year that she didnt really like ballet anymore. She said the exercises are too hard. We werent going to sign her up this year, but she wanted to.

She started acting out at home by having tantrums, name calling, and just being really awful when it was time to get ready and go. (She does this about everything else also (only at home), so it's not that something is going on in the class- we discussed everything about it at lenght. I asked her several times if she did not want to be in ballet anymore. She was wishy washy about it. I told her it's okay if you dont want to go. She said she still wanted to do it because her friends do and sometimes it's fun.

Still, almost every week she became explosive and out of control at ballet time. There were times that she wouldnt even get into the car. I told her these classes cost a lot of money and if this happens again she will have to pay for the class out of her bank account. She went to the next class after that, no problem, and we ordered her recital costume ($50).

I asked her ahead of time if she was still sure and that the costume was a lot of money. I also told her she would be paying if she didnt go. She still wanted to go.

Well, she started wigging out and refusing to get ready last week and told me she wants to quit. I told her that the month of tuition was already paid, costume ordered and we cant get out money back.

Now I am struggling with what to do. This is basically her whole bank account.

I feel terrible, but at almost 8 years old I feel like she is old enough for this logical consequence.


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## sgmom (Mar 5, 2009)

I'd talk to her a bit more about it to find out if there's something deeper that you might be missing. Based on your post, it sounds to me like she just might be frustrated. It's fun when it's easy, but not so much when the classes are too hard. Maybe she feels like she's at a lower level than the rest of her class, or that she can't keep up? It sounds like she WANTS to like it...

I would definitely see if you get to the root of her upset, before deciding on a logical consequence.


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## HeliMom (Jan 14, 2010)

Would you make her pay for it if she did continue? The way I see it, you would have spent the money whether she quit or had a fantastic time. So I really don't see the point in punishing her monetarily for quitting.

Instead I'd have her pay for her future ballet lessons or activities that you aren't willing to pay for if she doesn't complete. I do think you can't trust that she will complete a session, and I think you can explain that to her.

Also for this class I'd try to figure out what she likes and dislikes about ballet, and help her concentrate on the good and how she feels when she completes a task.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

She is frustrated. She likes the beauty of ballet and usually did have a good time once she got to class. She had a very hard time leaving the house to go. It was taking me about 1.5 hours to ease her into the fact that she had to get ready.

I have a 5 year old also and an infant. This was getting impossible.

She likes to be home and was torn between losing her hour of time.

The class (I think) is at a pretty tough time. It's 6-7PM on Fri night.I think that's a tiring time for everyone, but none of the other girls had any problems going. They were all ready after school and waiting to go. I know DD is extremely sensitive and has always had a very hard time with transitions. If I wasnt empathetic to this, I would have cancelled ballet a long time ago from the way she has spoken to me. I have been so patient and I felt it was her descision to make. I didnt want to take it away because she still wanted it.

At one point I told her we could cancel the next month because I hadnt paid yet. She said okay, but then cried on the night of ballet, so I took her.

She has no problem performing on stage, but the room in the back the girls have to wait in is very loud and it blows her mind. Im pretty sure she has SPD and I'm working on evaluation. This post is just for this issue though.

She asked me if I could be a backstage mom again (last year I couldnt because I had a newborn). I said of course I would. She said she would feel okay in that room if I was with her. Another time she didnt want to go because she said it's too boring and she is sick of her teacher. Another time- it's too hard, or she doesnt like it, it's stupid. This last time she concluded that it's because she is just too tired and it's too late at night. This is the only class for her level, so I cant even try another class (I dont even think that would really matter- pretty positive it wouldnt).

Anyway, I cant do this anymore with her, but she is extremely intelligent and has acted worse than a 3 year old in this situation. I feel that if I just let the whole thing go when she is capable of making choices it will just enable her to do it again.

It's not like she is 5 years old.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sgmom*
> 
> I'd talk to her a bit more about it to find out if there's something deeper that you might be missing. Based on your post, it sounds to me like she just might be frustrated. It's fun when it's easy, but not so much when the classes are too hard. Maybe she feels like she's at a lower level than the rest of her class, or that she can't keep up? It sounds like she WANTS to like it...
> 
> I would definitely see if you get to the root of her upset, before deciding on a logical consequence.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeliMom*
> 
> Would you make her pay for it if she did continue? The way I see it, you would have spent the money whether she quit or had a fantastic time. So I really don't see the point in punishing her monetarily for quitting.
> 
> ...


The point is, she did kind of quit, but then cried that she wanted another chance. When I brought the check for the month of ballet and the money for her recital costume, I told her how much it was and asked her if she was positive she wanted to be in ballet. She said she did. I told her it was her last chance and that I was finished losing money for the times she refused to go.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

In your case, I would have her pay. You told her in advance that if she wanted to continue with ballet (even though she had already said she didn't want to) that she'd be responsible for either doing the ballet or refunding the costs.

It'd be one thing if she had never done ballet before and was just trying it out, or if she realized it wasn't as good part way into a session, or something. For instance, quitting last year without finishing it out. But telling you to sign her up anyway even though she didn't like it last year, especially after you told her how much it was and how she didn't have to do it, that's just not cool. Mind you I'd pro-rate it for the time she did spend and I'd only have her pay half, because it was your responsibility as a parent to say "no" to her asking for something she'd already made clear she didn't want. I'd also accept partial payment in sweat equity and get a really clean basement or nice vegetable garden.

Also, don't take the money all at once. Work with her to set up a plan.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mom2happy*
> 
> At one point I told her we could cancel the next month because I hadnt paid yet. She said okay, but then cried on the night of ballet, so I took her.


See, and at that point you should've treated her like a 3 year old and just held her while she cried and let her get out her frustrations and conflicting feelings. Then you could've talked to her about why she wants to go and maybe worked out some substitute that fulfills whatever need the ballet class was meeting. (For instance, does she just miss taking the class with her friends?)


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## its_betty (Apr 23, 2010)

This jumped out at me:

"It was taking me about 1.5 hours to ease her into the fact that she had to get ready."

My ds would have had a hard time with that much lead time for anything when he was 8. It worked better to remind him once early in the day that we had X that day, and then tell him to gather up his stuff 10 minutes before we had to leave the house. Less time for him to get worked up over something he might not want to do. And he was (still is) a kid whose mood is affected by hunger, whether he notices it or not, so I made sure he had a good snack before it was time to tell him to get ready to go.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Have you observed a class? My parents put me in indian dance class when I was around that age and it was a nightmare. Corrections and praise are done in front of the whole class, and it sucks when you are the worst. It was also hard on me physically. It was definitely a different atmosphere than my sisters class (3 years younger). Has a similar change happened for your daughter?


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> Quote:
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 Maybe you are right. She was just really upset and it was a huge descision, so I wanted to give her another shot.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *its_betty*
> 
> This jumped out at me:
> 
> ...


That is how my DS is.

DD is very very different. She cant handle anything being sprung on her. She likes to be prepared for things or she feels very betrayed. Telling her 15 mintutes before we had to go wasnt working either. She was having the same behavior and then it was just too late to go.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *texmati*
> 
> Have you observed a class? My parents put me in indian dance class when I was around that age and it was a nightmare. Corrections and praise are done in front of the whole class, and it sucks when you are the worst. It was also hard on me physically. It was definitely a different atmosphere than my sisters class (3 years younger). Has a similar change happened for your daughter?


 Oh yes I've watched almost every class. The teacher is a very young sweet girl. She only praises them all and if they make a mistake she says with a silly face with her hand on her hip, "you come back and lets do that again." It is a fun class as far as dance goes; not strict, free style dance involved. There is a lot of laughter.

DD did have a good time when she got into the room. It seems that it was too much for her to get ready, and maybe not worth it. I guess she just wants to be home.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

It sounds like getting into the car is the hard part, but once she's there she actually likes it? I went through a long period like that as a kid. Never to the point of taking 1.5 to get ready to go or crying about it, but I was older and I did get grumpy and my parents did have to be the ones to watch the clock and such.

If that's the case, could she get ready at the studio? maybe you could help her out and get all her ballet stuff ready in a bag and drive her there to arrive 10-15 minutes early? (for one of my classes, I'd actually comb my hair and braid it in the car)

Or maybe there's something away from home that you could all do as a family? Make that your library time or something? 6pm is an awkward time to take an afterschool class if you don't do transitions well. It's enough time to get deeply involved in something else, but not enough time to really come to a good stopping point.

Or, if staying out of the house from her getting out of school to going to the class won't work, could you do something where it's easy for you to be in charge of the timing? Like family chores or watching a movie (or alternating). So instead of her doing her own project and then having to sort out how to end it and keep track of where she is, she just goes along with the family activity and (fingers crossed!) then just continues going along until she's at ballet class?

Just some ideas for talking with her.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

It sounds like the class is fine-- you gave her fair warning as well. I think this is an important lesson in using family resources.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mom2happy*
> 
> Quote:
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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

How about splitting the cost with her?

She backed out after you warned her, and she's old enough to experience the consequences of her action. At the same time, you probably should have simply not signed her up, even when she cried the night of ballet. So, if you both take part of the 'blame' you're both out some.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> How about splitting the cost with her?
> 
> She backed out after you warned her, and she's old enough to experience the consequences of her action. At the same time, you probably should have simply not signed her up, even when she cried the night of ballet. So, if you both take part of the 'blame' you're both out some.


This is exactly what I was looking for. It's what I was going to do before I posted, but I wanted some feedback before I made the final descision.

All of the advice for this has been wonderful.

It's so nice to have other moms just a click away who can really help.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I would force her to go. If that really does not work, I would make her pay for it. I would also make sure that during what would have been class time, I would have her do something she does not like, most likely extra chores. But no "fun time" during that time.

When my 6 yr old (just turned 5 at the time) suddenly decided he did not want to do swim lessons, after the first day, and refused to go the 2nd day, he had to clean and do stuff the entire time I was gone with his older brother. He wanted to play computer games. By the 3rd day, he wanted to go back. Luckily, I was able to get our money back and had already done that, so it was too late. And I kept up the rule of no TV or computer games when he should have been in lessons. This was at the beginning of the summer. At the end, he had a second chance at lessons and he actually went and did not complain so all was well.


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## Hey Mama! (Dec 27, 2003)

My daughter did that over t-ball last summer. She was 6 at the time and even though I reminded her how much she hated it the previous summer she begged to join. I told her if I pay for it she's doing it no matter what. She agreed but almost immediately after it started she wanted to quit. I made her stick it out, but pretty much put a ban on her joining sports teams until she is quite a bit older. If I were in your situation I would make her finish because you have already committed money to the recital costume and by now the teacher is probably counting on all the girls to remain and dance in the recital. If she absolutely flips out than I would offer her some repayment terms. I think 8 is old enough to understand that when you pay for a lesson you commit to going, and dropping out is letting her team/class down.


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## mom2grrls (Jul 24, 2008)

Your story sounds similar to mine. My daughter took ballet for 4 years and stopped going when she turned 8(she's 9 now). I just didn't sign her up when she said she didn't want to do it though. I figured if she changed her mind she could join in throughout the year sometime. She loved dancing and loved being on stage but just didn't want to put in the time after school, she wants time to play.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> I would force her to go. If that really does not work, I would make her pay for it. I would also make sure that during what would have been class time, I would have her do something she does not like, most likely extra chores. But no "fun time" during that time.


 Of course I wanted to do this, but its physically impossible. It's also impossible to "force" her to do anything. She becomes violent and rages.

This consequence would probably work for my DS, but my DD.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hey Mama!*
> 
> My daughter did that over t-ball last summer. She was 6 at the time and even though I reminded her how much she hated it the previous summer she begged to join. I told her if I pay for it she's doing it no matter what. She agreed but almost immediately after it started she wanted to quit. I made her stick it out, but pretty much put a ban on her joining sports teams until she is quite a bit older. If I were in your situation I would make her finish because you have already committed money to the recital costume and by now the teacher is probably counting on all the girls to remain and dance in the recital. If she absolutely flips out than I would offer her some repayment terms. I think 8 is old enough to understand that when you pay for a lesson you commit to going, and dropping out is letting her team/class down.


I think you are right, that 8 is old enough to understand. That is why I realize there HAS to be some type of consequence for this.

I can't let her think her choices and behavior don't count. That wouldn't do her any good in the long run.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> In your case, I would have her pay. You told her in advance that if she wanted to continue with ballet (even though she had already said she didn't want to) that she'd be responsible for either doing the ballet or refunding the costs.
> 
> ...


Totally missed this post.

This is pretty much the way I think too.

I think the partial payment by working it off is an awesome idea.

The only problem with that is; I dont like to correlate payment for family work. When I give jobs, they never expect payment. Im afraid if I started something like that, they would feel entitled. How do you get away from that?

This is just an example:

Last night I was putting the baby for a nap. I said to both kids that I would like to come out of my room and see the living room cleaned up (all baby toys, not their toys) and the kitchen table clear (plates, condiments, markers). When I came out, it was all done. The only expectation they had, was that they and I had extra time to spend together.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I would let her quit. But, then i'd take her to the recital so she sees what it is she missed out on. But, I wouldn't make her pay for it. (just me... I don't mean this is what YOU should do)

Or i'd say "Finish out the month, and then you can quit... but, no complaining at all".

Ballet is hard. Ballet teachers are hard. Other dance classes are more fun, so when my daughter was dancing, they HAD to do ballet, they all hated it, but the other classes were fun, so they sucked it up for that one hour twice a week. She told me every week how much she hated ballet. She cried, she said she hated miss Brittany. (and any other ballet teacher) So, I think that's just part of ballet for a while.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mom2happy*
> 
> Quote:
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Make it something out of the ordinary. Things that would be nice to have happen but aren't really a fundamental part of happy home life. E.g. a new garden bed (dug up in warmer weather since she's old enough to understand that the work she's doing in April was because of her actions in January) isn't a necessity, but it would be nice to have. Having spotless corners in every room of the house isn't a necessity (depending on your standards of housekeeping =D), but would be nice to have. It isn't actually necessary for family pets to be combed and brushed every day to reduce shedding, but it'd make life more pleasant if that did happen.

Larger projects are probably better in terms of having set limits on completion, but I'd talk with her about it.

(ETA: and it's fine for the task to be something she finds fun.)

Oh! And I wouldn't assign dollar values, instead I'd put in terms of she wasted family resources, so she's going to improve family life by doing tasks, thus and such list of tasks will compensate the family for the resources she caused to be wasted.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> Oh! And I wouldn't assign dollar values, instead I'd put in terms of she wasted family resources, so she's going to improve family life by doing tasks, thus and such list of tasks will compensate the family for the resources she caused to be wasted.


That is a great way of getting around that problem.

Recources!


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> I would let her quit. But, then i'd take her to the recital so she sees what it is she missed out on. But, I wouldn't make her pay for it. (just me... I don't mean this is what YOU should do)
> 
> ...


Taking her to the recital is an interesting idea. The things is; she likes dance and seeing the recital would probably just spur her on to begging to go back next year.

It's pretty much something she is not capable of mentally at this point. She has some some anger/ impulse issues that we are doing our best to deal with.

She cant rationalize and move past things or transition well. Things are hard for her. Basically she seriously CAN"T suck ANYTHING up, can't get past things.

She has a really hard time coping. She has other areas that she excels in, so it's off balance.

While I dont treat her like she is 3, I see that in some areas- she is 3.

She does very well in school and I know it's exhausting for her.

I really have to pick my battles with her. The more options she has, the harder it is.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I would take every single priviledge away, including time with friends, until she complies. I would be dead serious on this. I have a tantrum thrower too. But I know with persistence (which is hard for mom, I know) that this will be channeled for good some day.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mom2happy*
> 
> Quote:
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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> I would take every single priviledge away, including time with friends, until she complies. I would be dead serious on this. I have a tantrum thrower too. But I know with persistence (which is hard for mom, I know) that this will be channeled for good some day.


Things is, she could care less about time with friends. She is a very introverted. Also, when she rages, she honestly cares less about what she loses.

At wits end from dealing with her rage and tantrums, I have resorted to this approach and I can honestly say it makes things so much worse.

She realizes when she has nothing to lose it's a free for all. She has even told me clearly "I don't CARE what you could ever take- take it ALL". I know she means it. Things come and go and she knows it. She has control over things. It's her feelings at the time that she has no control over.

With my D'S, most discipline tactics work. He understands and cares to avoid any consequence at all. He likes to have a good time in life.

DD is a very "different" type of a person. She doesn't respond to things that most kids (even hot tempered ones) would understand and get. She just doesn't "get" a lot of things. Its actually worth it to her to do the crime, serve the time. There is no privilege or thing I could take away.


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## sublimeliving (Dec 21, 2010)

I think the punishment of having a young child pay for a class (a child that can't legally work for $), is inappropriate. Maybe if she was 16, and had steady income, or if she was babysitting regularly and had earned money. I think to understand the concept of working for a dollar, there has to be a job outside the home that produces income. Otherwise, it's not going to resonate with her. To be honest, I would try to switch her class to an earlier class. That time of night, at the end of the week doesn't work w/ some kids. By making her pay for the class, I would fear that it may result in her not wanting to try another class/sport... Ugh, I think it's better to just give her a hug and sit and chat over a tea party to find out what's really going on and what other classes she'd like better. Just my 2 cents.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I think you should talk to her about exactly how much money it is, remind her that the recital is the last thing then she can be totally done, then let her decide and go with it. When my dd is in a tantrum cycle I find that she pulls out of it faster when I stick to what I saw 100% even if it is a hard decision to stick by once she starts the tantrums and pouting. You were very clear about it, she believed you and went without fuss when you told her she would have to pay for missed lessons, so I think she understands and made her choice fully knowing that you would follow through.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

I would not force her to participate in the recital  Imagine if someone made you get up on stage in a costume and dance, when you didn't want to.

I also don't think an 8 year old should be responsible for paying for the class, even if she changed her mind. Let that be a lesson for the mom. Don't sign her up next time. I have children over the age of 8, so I have some experience with these matters. I am really surprised by how many are expecting this 8 year old to pay for the class, or are suggesting strong-arming her into it


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## slippy (Nov 4, 2006)

I don't think it is punative to make her pay for the class and the costume. If this was what you told her would happen if she decided to quit after you put out the money, then I think she needs to learn that you mean what you say, and will follow through. They have to know that you will stick with what you say. I imagine that the last thing you want is for her to learn that she can quit her responsibilities with no consequences- especially when consequences have been threatened, but will not be followed through on. It is a learning opportunity on responsibility and on your consistancy.

Have the talk with her and she can decide which she would prefer- finnishing out this session without tanturms and fights, or quitting and paying you back.There doesn't have to be fighting when she has the controll to choose. it's either one or the other.

I know it's hard, mamma. stay strong and think about what you want her to learn from this situation.


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## weliveintheforest (Sep 3, 2005)

This is hard. Even though she is intelligent, I don't think at 8 she should have the responsibility to decide whether to continue the class or pay for it herself. I like the idea of having her pay for part of it, or 'working' it off. I would also include her in the decision of how to deal with it.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

In view of the "family resources" angle i would tell her "look, this cost us $xxx, which would have taken us all as a family to the waterpark/zoo/whatever. We paid that money and you refused to go to class, so the next time we want to go as a family to the waterpark/zoo/whatever YOU have to pay for it out of your own money". And i would stick to it. That way the money is going on something nice for her and everyone else (rather than just being gone from her account), you get to recoup your loss, and the whole punishment edge comes off to reveal a sparkly consequence.

I don't get the whole "make her do something she hates during class time" unless the whole point of sending her to ballet in the first place was as a punishment for something. Money is important, but it's not as important as people. Do you want her to remember that it is better to do something you hate than waste money?! That's a powerful lesson! And yes, i know, quitters never win etc. But you know what, i was the same about the euphonium when i was a kid.

I tried it once when i was 8, i could get a sound out of it, my parents decided i should have lessons. For SIX YEARS i had lessons. I hated it. I was terrible at it (i have receptive amusia). And yes, i wanted to quit a lot. But every time i voiced that my mother's disappointment in me was so tangible that i relented, in tears, and said i'd continue. I was 14, and very much becoming my own woman, before i had to guts and strength to weather her disapproval and disappointment and quit doing something i hated and was terrible at. Honestly, i don't know why they didn't spend all that lesson money on something i wanted to do (horseback riding) or at least an instrument i liked (classical guitar? ANYTHING but loud, horrible brass?!) or, indeed, on taking us all to the zoo once in a while.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slippy*
> 
> I don't think it is punative to make her pay for the class and the costume. If this was what you told her would happen if she decided to quit after you put out the money, then I think she needs to learn that you mean what you say, and will follow through. They have to know that you will stick with what you say. I imagine that the last thing you want is for her to learn that she can quit her responsibilities with no consequences- especially when consequences have been threatened, but will not be followed through on. It is a learning opportunity on responsibility and on your consistancy.
> 
> ...


I guess then, that she shouldn't ever had told her daughter that would be the consequence. She shouldn't have signed her up, if she didn't want to pay for it. That kind of responsibilty, for an expensive class, lies with the parent. The message she is going to send her daughter is never to try stuff, because if at some point, you don't like it anymore, you have to keep doing it, no matter what, otherwise there is going to be a ridiculously expensive (think of what that kind of money means to an 8! year old) cancellation fee.

Seriously, have you never just quit something because you didn't like it anymore, even if it cost money? Thrown away a bit of food, that didn't appeal to you, for instance? She's 8. She's **** figuring out who she is. The op could "go back on what she said" very easily. She could say, I've rethought my posistion. I realize now it's unreasonable to expect you to pay for the class - whether you are taking it or not. From now on, though, I will only be paying for classes for any children in our family, if we can afford it.

NAK


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoBecGo*
> 
> In view of the "family resources" angle i would tell her "look, this cost us $xxx, which would have taken us all as a family to the waterpark/zoo/whatever. We paid that money and you refused to go to class, so the next time we want to go as a family to the waterpark/zoo/whatever YOU have to pay for it out of your own money". And i would stick to it. That way the money is going on something nice for her and everyone else (rather than just being gone from her account), you get to recoup your loss, and the whole punishment edge comes off to reveal a sparkly consequence.
> 
> ...


Exactly - you said it better than I. Also - it's a waste whether she does it and hates it or doesn't do it at all. Or do some of you think she has to do it and love it, or else she has to pay for it. The "make her do something she hates during class time" suggestion actually scares me. One, what is truly the point of that, other than trying to bend her to your will through pain, and two - how do you truly get someone to do something they hate? If she,f or instance hates brushing her teeth, are you going to hold her down and scrub her mouth with a toothbrush? :shudder

I think there are way worse things in life than being a "quitter". Like being a bully, as just one example.


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## midnightwriter (Jan 1, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoBecGo*
> 
> In view of the "family resources" angle i would tell her We paid that money and you refused to go to class, so the next time we want to go as a family to the waterpark/zoo/whatever YOU have to pay for it out of your own money".


 And if she did attend the classes, then magically the resources for a water park would appear? It doesn't seem fair to me at all, and is quite demeaning.

What if you buy a membership to a fitness club (or maybe your DH technicaly buys it for you, as you are a SAHM) and then some days you want to go, and some days you feel like staying home? Sure, we all have great intentions of never missing a work out, but most of us do at some point or another. There's a bit of guilt already, but it doens't mean we are worthless, right? And then your DH comes and says that since you have the membership but are not using it, now you will have to pay out of your own non-existent pocket for the family's waterpark outing?

She is already conflicted over ballet, and is hypersensitive and emotional. She loves it, loves the beauty of it, but something is not working for her. It could be the time of the class. It could be just some other girl in the class. Could be a million of reasons for a sensitive, emotionally volatile child. (DD is the same, so I do know). Her inner conflict is already a huge punishment for her. The GD way here is to find a way for her to enjoy ballet or some other activity that would help her to improve her emotional balance, even if it seems like a waste of money to let her drop the class.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swede*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


If it were her first ballet class, okay. If she had finished out her last class happy with ballet and looking forward to her current class and then the current class ended up being too much for her, okay.

As it is though, she knew at the end of her last class that she didn't like ballet and she still insisted her mom sign her up for another class. And made the deal that she'd either finish out the class or pay for it.

I agree, mom should've said no. That's why I think that the kid shouldn't have to pay the full price. But she needs to pay something because she agreed to those terms.

Meeting her agreed upon obligations doesn't have to be (and should NOT be) a punitive thing.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

I would make her pay, but not the full amount. At 8, she probably doesn't understand how much the whole amount is, anyway, but yes, I would have her pay for something. Whether that be half of it all, or just the cost of the recital outfit, or half of the outfit....whatever.

But I think it's important for you to stick by the consequences you already laid out. I think it's wishy washy parenting to define a consequence for an action and then rescind on it *completely* (I see no issue with changing it up a bit), and she's old enough to realize that if you aren't really going to stand by what you say then she can do the same thing again in the future.

I also like the idea of not paying for whatever you think she should pay for all at once, and even doing some out of the ordinary family chores to help earn the money.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *midnightwriter*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Lucky you if money magically appears in your household!!! In mine DP works very hard for it and hands it all over to the family! And if one of the kids was doing an expensive activity it WOULD decrease the frequency with which we could do family recreation things. It was the same when i was a kid, everyone AGREED that they would have takeaway way less so i could have (about 10) riding lessons when i was 11! And i AGREED to stop the lessons when a friend said i could ride her pony so my brother could have judo lessons and we could all have takeaway slightly more often (ha, about 4 times a year!). Maybe other families don't work that way with money.

For us it would be "here is the pot for recreation - this is the portion of it we gave to the ballet person for your own personal recreation, and what we could have done with it instead, and since you changed your mind and that money was therefore wasted (and i know and agree, everyone sometimes changes their mind but it seems like the mom made it really clear what was at stake and what would happen if she changed her mind again, and gave her *several* chances to quit before money was spent) we need you to somehow put back that portion into the pot - how about you pay $x towards the next time the whole family have recreation together." And on the day i would make sure to thank her very profusely for the wonderful day out and make sure her siblings understood that she had repaid the sacrifice they made, even if she chose not to do ballet. That seems fair to me. I don't really think a trip out to do something she enjoys with her family is a punishment, but i guess our views of GD differ. Your way is no-go to me. "Want to say you want to do ballet and have us buy an expensive costume and pay for expensive lessons and then throw a fit and not go? Ok.". I'm sorry, it just wouldn't be ok, financially or in terms of our attitudes to the family pot or each other, for our family.

And i'm not 8, i don't have a membership to a fitness club (because i know i might not go and don't want to waste the money), and if my DP gave me several chances to not go to a gym and then i threw a fit and was abusive to him when he suggested i put on the new gym clothes we bought and went to the class i'd asked for and we'd already paid for i think i'd be looking at bigger problems than wasted money! In our family the money is OURS. There isn't a "technically" where it's his and i don't have any, we both work hard for one another and for the family. And we expect the same from our kids. At the moment i wouldn't sign DD 4 up for anything that wasn't paid week-to-week, because she's 4, she might change her mind. But at 8, in the circumstances described, where there was plenty of opportunity to quit before money was paid, i would absolutely expect her to understand that there are some consequences where finances are concerned. That's reality. If you do that with money as an adult you end up in a whole heap of debt. I was an emotionally volatile kid too. I outgrew it, but i have not outgrown the budgeting skills i gained from such experiences as a child.


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## FiveLittleMonkeys (Jan 21, 2009)

One thing that I have always made a rule in our house is that if you start an activity, you finish it. The way I present it to our kids is that your team is counting on you (for sports), your class is counting on you (for dance), your fellow musicians are counting on you (for band/orchestra), and so on. The kids are told that they are required to finish the season/year/whatever time period is the norm for each activity. If they don't like it, they get to try a new one at the end, but they HAVE to finish what they start, because other people are counting on them to do their part.

Have we had tantrums? Sure. Have there been days when I would have rather just not dealt with the drama of tights, leotards, tears and "don't wanna's?" Absolutely. But like your daughter, once they were there, they have FUN.

Being that your daughter has already ordered costumes, my experience with not only taking dance myself for over 20 years, but teaching and having daughters in dance is that they've also already started learning their routine for the recital. I would explain it in terms of "your teacher and the other girls need you in the recital, and that means going to class. When the recital is over, no more ballet, but you will go until then." 8 years old is old enough to get this - whether SPD or not.

But it you don't wish to take this approach, I think you need to stand by your word and make her pay for her class and costume. Whether you choose to take it immediately or take half and have her work the rest off is immaterial. But I don't think you should go back on what you said - that would absolutely send the wrong message.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


we are talking about an 8 year old's "agreement" with her mother, not a legally binding contract. Mom is the one who made the error here, not daughter. Mom should not have done something just because dd insisted. Op= is it possible she agreed to another session because she thought that was what YOU wanted??


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *midnightwriter*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Well put.


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## miss_nikki (Jan 21, 2007)

I haven't read any of the replies, but wanted to say what we do with our girls. Before they are allowed to sign up for anything we remind them what it means to make a commitment and that if they sign up for something we expect them to follow through with their commitment. If they aren't sure they actually want to do whatever it is, we have them weigh the pros and cons, from their perspective and make sure they are choosing the activity for the right reasons. It seems to help us out. We let them know they are allowed to stop an activity once their session is over. So say they sign up for gymnastics, if they decide 3 weeks into a 6 week session that they don't want to do it anymore, too bad, they'll suck it up and finish the session. When it's over, we just don't sign them back up again, until they say they want to and then we go over it all with them before we decide to let them try it again or not.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I would dig into why she is wigging out....but at the same time, she needs to finish this. Her quiting at this point is not just affecting her, it would be affecting all the other dancers.

If she is nervous or just does't like it, it is time to find another activity or work through the nerves.

If it is a bad instructor find a new one before you let her quit for good. Ask her to give it X amount of time with this instructor.

If it is a really bad instructor or something more major than consider now. We have been in that position and it does hurt the other kids but it truly is best for your child. My mom did it with a music instructor with my sister, more harm was being done than good. The next instruct was awesome.


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## JennaW (Oct 11, 2007)

Take what I have to say with a grain of salt because I don't have a child of your age and have never BTDT. However, I do not think your original consequence was unreasonable and I do not think it is unreasonable for you to go forward with that. I do like the previous posters suggestion of having the amount she pays be related to the classes & recital she won't attend. While the stress she has put you through in getting to those classes is unacceptable, to me this is a different issue and the consequence for throwing that sort of temper tantrum should be a different consequence and should have happened at the time of the unacceptable behavior.

If it were me, I think I would look to move forward in the most diplomatic and positive way possible. Sit down and have the final talk about this. Does she want to continue WITHOUT the complaining, delays in leaving, ect or would she prefer to just say she is done and pay for the remaining classes and recital costume out of her own money? If she says she wants to continue, fine. Then you talk about how you expect her to act on class days and what the consequence will be for not acting appropriately. If she says she doesn't want to continue, fine. Pull out a sheet of paper and pencil. Write down the total cost of this session, divide it by the number of classes. Tell her this is the cost per class. Get your calendar, count the remaining classes, multiply the cost per class by the remaining classes. Then add in the cost of the recital costume (since she won't be participating.) Show her this total cost. Talk about the funds she has in her bank account. If you wish talk about other ways she could work off this debt around the house (only if this is an acceptable option to you.) I would keep this conversation very positive, if she is cooperative I would make sure to thank her for being a person of her word, holding up her end of the bargain. I would not make her feel like either option is a better choice, just that they are both options and that this is the FINAL time to make a choice. You will not be having this conversation again. Then, when it is convenient for you, go to the bank together, take out CASH for the amount she owes and have her give it to you. I think this is important. I don't think the impact of her paying for this will be as real to her if you just do an electronic funds transfer. I think she needs to see that money and get that receipt showing you had x amount before withdraw and x amount after.


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## Super Pickle (Apr 29, 2002)

It sounds like you are not very far into the session, is that correct? How far away is the next recital? (I did read the whole thread, but may have missed these details). If you have only gone to one practice, it is not really likely to affect the class if your daughter stops going. If there is a recital coming up very soon, you might consider telling her that she is expected to continue until the recital, either because of the financial commitment you made or the class' dependence on her, but once the recital is over, she won't have to go anymore. Sometimes, just knowing that there is an endpoint in sight can help relieve a child's stress. She will know that you have heard her, that you appreciate her feelings, and that you are going to do what you can to help make things better. And then, once you've stopped lessons, you can look for other ways to enjoy music and dance without the pressure. In the weeks that remain in the session, perhaps you could start a little routine of going out to eat before dance class. I know that is introducing more of a financial burden, but it might make the transition easier (think of the money you're saving on future ballet). Or perhaps you could arrange a carpool--a friend's mom takes her to dance, and you pick them up? She might react better to "Honey, Abby's mom just called; she's on her way. Grab your things!" Besides, you wouldn't have the stress of trying to get your other children out the door on time. I think the key is to make a decision on when she gets to quit--either immediately (swallowing the cost) or after the recital, and be firm, making it clear that the quit date is set and not open to weekly negotiation, but you're doing everything you can to make the last leg bearable.

I do not think that it is really necessary or even helpful to make her shoulder the cost. She's 8, a mistake was made in signing her up. It is reasonable to explain compassionately the next time she wants something, that you are still a bit burdened by the dance lessons and don't really want to spend more money right now. That still sends the message that money doesn't grow on trees, and that money once spent is gone, without making her feel guilty.

Your story sounded familiar to me. We quit Suzuki violin after 3 years, because my sons, who had originally been the ones who wanted to start, had come to hate it and I couldn't take the meltdowns and strife and conflict that had come into our family over going to lessons or practicing. OH! the warnings I got about how the boys would learn to be quitters and never finish anything, how it is a hard journey but worth it in the end, etc. Well, it turned out to be the best decision we ever made. We actually climb in the bed together at night and read books out loud instead of going to bed in tears after fighting over practice. We haven't eaten at a restaurant or in the car in forever, because we are home to cook meals. One of my sons hasn't shown any further interest in violin, but the other one did a fun Irish fiddle class over the summer and is now in a little ensemble through the city parks and recreation department--$25 for 8 weeks, and no pressure. He'll probably never be in a symphony orchestra when he grows up, but if he wants to jam with the folk music club, he'll be able to. My point being that if she has an interest there, you can still find low-pressure, inexpensive ways to nurture that interest and still maintain peace and harmony in the family.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mom2happy*
> 
> She has no problem performing on stage, but the room in the back the girls have to wait in is very loud and it blows her mind. Im pretty sure she has SPD and I'm working on evaluation. This post is just for this issue though.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mom2happy*
> Of course I wanted to do this, but its physically impossible. It's also impossible to "force" her to do anything. She becomes violent and rages.
> 
> This consequence would probably work for my DS, but my DD.


I have a DD with intense sensory issues and what you are saying about her behavior is VERY in line with what I see when my DD is experiencing sensory overload, or is about to go into a situation where she has experienced sensory overload in the past. There is no bribe, no punishment, NOTHING that impacts my DD when it is a sensory issue. Sometimes, I feel like I'm raising a child with PTSD, except that nothing has happened to cause this panic, anxiety, and terror.

I would yank her from the class, never to return. I'd call the studio and ask for an exception to the policy. I wouldn't expect an 8 year old to understand something about themselves that I, as an adult, can't figure out. Then I would let the whole thing go.

The activity that has been the very best for my DD over the years is swimming. It helps sensory issues rather than making them worse. I also recommend the book The Out Of Sync Child.

I do see a lot of value in having kids stick with an activity until they get past the uncomfortable *new* stage. But your DD has been doing this for 4 years. It OK to stop doing something that no longer works.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *midnightwriter*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


This is making me rethink some things.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> How about splitting the cost with her?
> 
> She backed out after you warned her, and she's old enough to experience the consequences of her action. At the same time, you probably should have simply not signed her up, even when she cried the night of ballet. So, if you both take part of the 'blame' you're both out some.


my thoughts exactly.


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## slippy (Nov 4, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slippy*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree that this might be less of an issue if the OP hadn't told the daughter that if she dropped out of the class she would have to pay for it. It is sometimes the hardest thing to do to "stick to our Nos" but I don't think that it is any less important. We have to be really careful about the consequences that we lay out for our kids because I really believe that we have to follow through on them, even if we regret the threat. I need my daughter to know that i will do what i say- when it goes in her favor or against it. It doesn't have to be about recouping the whole actual cost, i think that could be adjusted based on age- like i wouldn't drain my daughters college fund to prove a point to her, but i would certainly expect her to give me the money from her recreational spending/saving piggy bank. to her, she would feel the loss of that 20$ enough to make the point, and at 5 years old, she doesn't have enough of a grasp of the value of money to make any more worth it to her. Only the Mamma knows how her child values money, and how much they would understand. I know a few 8 year olds who understand full well the value of a dollar, and the cost of their activities. It doesn't have to be a 'show me the reciept and write a check' kind of thing, what do you think she would need to learn the lesson that if you say it- you mean it?

A friend of mine once said No when her little boy asked for a toy airplane at a gift shop at the airport. She instantly regretted it and he had a fit all the way through customs and security and onto the plane.She knew that the easy thing to do would be to go back and buy the toy to make him be quiet, but she knew that if she did- he would learn 2 things: when she says no, that might not actually mean no, and a tantrum will make her change her mind. She suffered through the consequences of her No as well as he did, and you better believe that she learned that every flight they take, she stops at the gift shop and buys a cheep toy. Lesson learned all round!

Of course i've quit things, or thrown things away- but i'm a grown up and I know the consequences of wasting my own money. I don't see this situation as just a "follow through on your obligations" issue. I see it as a "learn about the consistancy of your parents" issue.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

QUOTING slippy here: _"I agree that this might be less of an issue if the OP hadn't told the daughter that if she dropped out of the class she would have to pay for it. It is sometimes the hardest thing to do to "stick to our Nos" but I don't think that it is any less important. We have to be really careful about the consequences that we lay out for our kids because I really believe that we have to follow through on them, even if we regret the threat. I need my daughter to know that i will do what i say- when it goes in her favor or against it."_

I completely agree w/this. The issue to me is not whether or not the consequences the OP came up with are the best ones for this case, but that the agreement between mother and child has already been made, and for mom to go back on the agreement would send the wrong message.

Sure, she could come out of this thinking, as a pp said, that it's no use trying out anything new if I'm going to be punished for not liking it....OR she could come out of this thinking that it's okay to have mom pay for whatever things I want to do and I can quit at any time and there will be no consequences since mom already proved that to me.

As for joining a health club (another pp's thoughts), it's one thing to have a membership that allows you to go for a Summer, let's say, and you miss a few times but still get your money's worth in the end. It's another thing entirely to pay for a Summer's membership and then, come June, decide you hate that health club and never want to return.

As a spouse, I'd be pretty annoyed for the total waste of money!


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I think there are times where you have to be very consistent, particularly with toddlers and very young children where you can't have real discussions. But I think being consistent when you know you made a mistake with an older child particularly isn't always what I would choose. Sometimes, changing your mind shows that you are on your child's team, so to speak, and are thinking soley of them and your relationship with them.

I guess in this case I probably wouldn't have made her pay. I probably would have learned about what kind of activites she likes and how much I would want to risk on activities in the future though.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> *I think there are times where you have to be very consistent, particularly with toddlers and very young children where you can't have real discussions. But I think being consistent when you know you made a mistake with an older child particularly isn't always what I would choose. Sometimes, changing your mind shows that you are on your child's team, so to speak, and are thinking soley of them and your relationship with them.*
> 
> I guess in this case I probably wouldn't have made her pay. I probably would have learned about what kind of activites she likes and how much I would want to risk on activities in the future though.


you have said exactly what I meant.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

I've only skimmed the responses, so this idea may already be out there.

Rather than making her pay cash (which I'm assuming she gets from allowance and/or gift money), I would guide her through "making up" for the money you spent. You can help her sell the costume and any dance stuff she has to get rid of through a consignment shop. Explain that you spent $X (though I'd probably only be inclined to consider the cost of the costume since you'd already committed to the lessons) and that you need to make up that money. Have her help you clip coupons or cut the budget elsewhere to make up for that money. I think that working on "finding" that money in the family is a bigger lesson about how money works in a family.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> I think there are times where you have to be very consistent, particularly with toddlers and very young children where you can't have real discussions. But I think being consistent when you know you made a mistake with an older child particularly isn't always what I would choose. Sometimes, changing your mind shows that you are on your child's team, so to speak, and are thinking soley of them and your relationship with them.
> 
> I guess in this case I probably wouldn't have made her pay. I probably would have learned about what kind of activites she likes and how much I would want to risk on activities in the future though.


This is an awesome post. As I said before, your DD is acting like mine does when it's sensory issues, and *punishing* her in ANY way is only going to make things worse. (Anxiety is common in kids with sensory issues as they get older).

Being very mindful in what activities to select and going forward with caution make sense. Giving her messages that she's *bad* and needs to be *different* than she isn't going to be helpful to her.

I think that following rigid parenting rules such as never going back on what we said, without regard to our child's age, maturity, issues, and what we know now is short sighted. Some times we as parents are wrong, and when we own that and make a different choice, we are teaching our kids a great deal. We are modeling that one can learn from experiences, to be open minded.

May be you could frame in in terms of what you want her to get out of this experience -- to learn to listen to herself? To be true to her own feelings regardless of what her friends are doing?


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

OP here

I just want to say I am acknowledging that I am responsible as the parent here, for putting her in ballet again this year.

I need to point out though; that she is the one who told me all summer that she wanted to do another year of ballet.

I could have also been responsible for not giving her that chance to find out that this is something she wants to do long term.

She hates sports or any type of extra curricular activity, anything competitive. She was able to do this because it was a parallel type of activity.

She does like it, just the not leaving to get there part.

There is no way to make the transition easier. I am by myself with 3 kids. Going out before hand to eat or something would have made things hectic.

She never refused to go last year. I could see that the class wasnt as much fun, but she was very proud of her new steps and not saying she didnt want to go.

I had no idea that she was going to actually start refusing to listen to me. It's not just ballet.

It's basically like she has recently discovered that she is an individual, but at a very late age.

She is going through now, what most kids go through when they are 3-4 years old. I guess, asserting herself, but also in a 3 year old way.

Also, I could care less if she wants to do ballet. I'm no stage mom. I want her to do what she likes to do.

She has to have some accountability for the way she handled this as we move forward.

I cant take full responsibility when she is at this age.

She is very smart and will only gather from this, that tantrums are the way to go.

I understand that she is still little, but imo, not so little that I should encourage the way she handled this by just letting it go.

She wanted to be in ballet this year. I didnt care either way. It would have been a heck of a lot easier if she didnt want to. With a new baby and being by myself until 9pm at night with 3 kids, I really dont need extra work loading 3 kids into the car at night.

I gave her the chance to do something that she ASKED to do. I could have said NO, flat out. What would have been worse?

We discussed that the class costs money, that the class is throughout the school year, sometimes she wont want to go, but its a commitment.

I could have physically forced her into the car, but ballet or money is not so important that I want to risk damaging our relationship.

If she wants to do it again next September, I will absolutely let her. I will tell her that I will pay for a month and she can see how she feels about it.

This is what I did the first time. The first time she refused to go, I just dealt with the melt down and let it go. Depending on her mood she would either get ready and go or just not get ready and start melting down. The second time she refused to go, I told her that the class costs me and Dad $15. If you are going to decide when you will go and not go, you can waste your own money. She was fine with that. I explained to her that it was the time in the year to give the payment for the costume and that the next months tuition was due. I told her that this was a good time to quit. I asked her what she wanted. I really didnt feel that I should make that descision for her. She is very smart.

I told her clearly that she would be responsible for the cost if she threw another tantrum before ballet class.

SO..... she threw the tantrum, called me every name in the book (7 year old's book), refused to get ready, said she wants to stay home.

I then reminded her of the consequence, told her that it was her choice, she had a lot of chances..... she still was NOT going.

I feel like FINALLY it's over and I let it be HER own descision. She is her own person.

If I kept paying every month and she went when she was in the mood, what message would that send?

If I flat out said NO when she desperately wanted to be in ballet, what message would that send?

If I just let the screaming, falling to the floor, throwing things be her way out of everything she wasnt in the mood to do, what message would that send.

I really feel like making her responsible for part of the cost is the only GD way of having any impact here.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom*
> 
> I've only skimmed the responses, so this idea may already be out there.
> 
> Rather than making her pay cash (which I'm assuming she gets from allowance and/or gift money), I would guide her through "making up" for the money you spent. You can help her sell the costume and any dance stuff she has to get rid of through a consignment shop. Explain that you spent $X (though I'd probably only be inclined to consider the cost of the costume since you'd already committed to the lessons) and that you need to make up that money. Have her help you clip coupons or cut the budget elsewhere to make up for that money. I think that working on "finding" that money in the family is a bigger lesson about how money works in a family.


This is a great idea.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

intersting. i have paid for things that i thought i would like and didn't and then decided not to go.. even when i thought for sure it would be great. heck i have done it for things that in the past i have not enjoyed thinking it would be better this time around.

ds#2 has tried kung fu in the past and wanted to give it another go, so we signed him up, after a couple classes he didn't want to go any more. so we just talked about it, he let us know what he was thinking, why he didn't want to go. we talked about future classes, maybe trying something thru parks and reqs that is cheaper if he wants to try something and isn't sure how he will like it. it worked out good. i would hate to force my child to take a class and preform just because i spent money on it, like they are less important then $50.00. yeah it sucks, but in the end i would hate to be forced to complete something i was unhappy doing just because it cost money.

i am not sure what you have in your area, but maybe they have things like classes put on my a community center that cost very little so she can feel out what she might want to do in the future without it cost an arm and a leg. and if she is unhappy after, say, 2 or three lessons you are out $20.00 not hundreds.

h


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## a13xandra (Dec 17, 2010)

If she becomes violent, this may be a deeper issue than ballet or anything else, and might be a cry for help. I would probably start some therapy with her to help her find a way to express her rage. I haven't any other good advice about the ballet situation, because my parents forced me to go and I thank them for it. I was in choir for ten years, and there were many years that I wanted to quit in the middle (I'm a big quitter). I'm so glad they forced me to go. The violent rages are worriesome to me, though. I wish you luck.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamaofthree*
> 
> intersting. i have paid for things that i thought i would like and didn't and then decided not to go.. even when i thought for sure it would be great. heck i have done it for things that in the past i have not enjoyed thinking it would be better this time around.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying, but this was her fourth year. It wasnt trying anything new. I also think I posted that I encouraged her to quit if she wanted out.

I also did not FORCE her. I can not force her to do anything. She just wasnt in the mood to go on those days.


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## plantnerd (Aug 20, 2010)

I too would make her go, and if she rages and fights, there would be consequences for that too. I firmly believe you need to follow through with what you start. And personally, there is nothing an 8 year old could do that would be physically impossible for me to handle. Maybe not gentle, but this is an 8 year old, not a 3 year old.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plantnerd*
> 
> I too would make her go, and if she rages and fights, there would be consequences for that too. I firmly believe you need to follow through with what you start. And personally, there is nothing an 8 year old could do that would be physically impossible for me to handle. Maybe not gentle, but this is an 8 year old, not a 3 year old.


I wish it was as cut and dry. I guess I might think the same thing if I wasnt in the situation.

There is a little baby who could get hurt and a 5 year who is part of this.

Imagine physically dragging her while she screamed and kicked me to the car? With a baby and another kid??

No way. That would be disgusting on my part.

She is not a toddler I can strap into a carseat.

How the heck would that help her learn? For a while, I suppose she would be scared of me, but it woulnt do anything to address the problem. Also, she is huge and at some point will be the same size or bigger than me. Physical force woulnt work for too long. I'm betting that it would reinforce her attitute on "how to get your way" (which she has a problem with already) What I'm trying to teach her here is self control, communication, and responsibility.


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## JennaW (Oct 11, 2007)

Mama, I don't think you need to justify yourself anymore. It sounds like this class is A. Not working for your DD anymore B. Not working for you C. Not working for the family.

I think it's kind of ludicrous to suggest that deciding to stop this class and have DD suffer the reasonable consequences is going to scar her for life by either A. teaching her it's okay to be a quitter and B. teach her to never try anything new. Sometimes it is okay to quit things you don't enjoy, doesn't mean there are not consequences to those actions but it doesn't mean you should never quit anything either. I seriously doubt if you handle this is a loving, firm manner your DD is never going to want to try anything new either. And if you do see this happening you can always work on cultivating interest in something else. It sounds like maybe something that could be done from home or self taught might be fun for your DD like learning to crochet or knit or scrap book or do photography. Of course any of these things can become very expensive and time consuming but they don't have to and they can be done in small time increments, at home.


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## JennaW (Oct 11, 2007)

Also, as for the "gym membership analogy", I think a more comparable analogy would be this: I have been attending a yoga class for 4 years, I overall have seemed to really enjoy it but start to not enjoy it so much. I'm always complaining about it before I go to my DH, sometimes I just refuse to go even though my DH has made arrangements to be home early from work and make dinner. It comes time to sign up for the class again. My DH comes to me and says "It seems like you aren't really enjoying that class anymore, it's pretty expensive, are you sure you want to keep going? Sometimes its hard for me to get home from work early for you to go, I don't mind doing this if you enjoy it but it makes me feel sort of resentful when you are always complaining about it." I get upset with him and tell him I want to go! He says "Okay, okay, I just want to make sure before we spend this money but really I'm kind of tired of hearing you complain about it all the time." I start going to the class again, I keep complaining. I buy myself a new mat and yoga clothes with family funds, my DH comments how expensive these things are, especially for something I don't seem to be enjoying. I quit the class with plenty of pre-paid sessions left and my new clothes and mat are no longer being used. If I had a special bank account of my own where I saved up birthday money and money I had earned for side jobs, would it be unreasonable for my DH to ask me to replace the family funds? I don't think it would be.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plantnerd*
> 
> I too would make her go, and if she rages and fights, there would be consequences for that too. I firmly believe you need to follow through with what you start. And personally, there is nothing an 8 year old could do that would be physically impossible for me to handle. Maybe not gentle, but this is an 8 year old, not a 3 year old.


i'm sorry, but yuck. I can't imagine making her go in this manner. plantnerd - may I ask how many and how old your children are? because really, I guess with one 8 year old, you could probably handle "almost" anything, but with multiple children, I don't see how that could happen (not that I would advocate what you are suggesting anyhow), Sounds a little too much like "might makes right" for my taste. And I try adn reserve that for really dire situations, like running into the street, for instance.


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## midnightwriter (Jan 1, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plantnerd*
> 
> I too would make her go, and if she rages and fights, there would be consequences for that too. I firmly believe you need to follow through with what you start. And personally, there is nothing an 8 year old could do that would be physically impossible for me to handle. Maybe not gentle, but this is an 8 year old, not a 3 year old.


 If it wouldn't be gentle, you are on the wrong forum.


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## scorpiosue (Jan 22, 2011)

I agree.

children are more valuable than money and only we as parents can reinforce that notion in their willy nilly little heads.

I would put the money out of the picture and act as though there is were no money involved at all... then what would you do?


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## Ann-Marita (Sep 20, 2003)

I'm going to go ahead and jump in, here. I'm a dance teacher.

Please do not force her to go to class. There are few thing worse in my business than trying to teach a child who doesn't want to be there. (But you say she likes the class, it's just the getting there that's become difficult? Hm. That might be different.)

It's just January, recital is months away. Most teachers are quite capable of resetting the dance (where the dancers are positioned) at this point, and there is plenty of time for the dancers to learn their new locations. Many studios haven't even "set" the dances yet - teaching the steps comes first. A few weeks before recital, I would say something different. But quitting at this point isn't nearly letting her classmates and teacher down the way quitting in early May would be.

One option I haven't seen suggested would be to try a class that is a lower level and/or younger age. If she liked the "fun" aspects, but now it's getting harder, maybe she would still like the younger, more "fun" classes? And perhaps the schedule would be better, too.

Just a few thoughts from my perspective.

I hope things get better for you, and for your DD.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

My almost 7 yr old is starting to dislike ballet and violin on certain days for the same reason- she wants to stay at home and keep playing. For ballet I gave her two "ballet free days" coupons to use during the semester for two times of her choice that she wants to skip. She likes that control. Violin is more expensive and one-on-one so I didn't want to do this. The teacher suggested giving her a calendar so she can see for herself when the day is and not feel so blind-sided. She has marked all her activities on it and is very happy with it. We'll see how it goes! You may have tried these things already but maybe your dd has some ideas to help her feel more in control of the activity. If you want to back down on the "you need to pay for it stance" I don't see it being a big deal as long as their is some common ground found, or work towards a solution.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpiosue*
> 
> I agree.
> 
> ...


Yes, what would happen then?


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *midnightwriter*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Thank you.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swede*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


First, I agree - children are worth more money than exists in the world today. However, the things they do cost money, and there is not an infinite amount of money available to finance activities. At some point children have to become aware of the value of a dollar - the earlier they start the more adept they will be at budgeting later. It's not necessarily about "punishment" but about discipline - teaching our children that their actions have consequences.

Sometimes they are physical consequences - when you bang your head into the wall it hurts for example (for some reason my ds learns this lesson every day). Sometimes they are financial consequences - when we pay for an activity that you insist you want to continue, and then decide to drop out, the family is out a certain amount of money and it needs to be repaid somehow.

I really liked the idea of going over with the children the family budget for recreation, and then making recreation decisions as a family rather than as adults, and let the kids know that when they do personal activities (sports, dance, art classes) that the money comes out of the family fund - and if they quit they will need to replace those funds somehow b/c they took from the family and then didn't follow through. (whoever posted that idea, THANK YOU, I'll be stealing it in a few years when my ds is old enough to start talking about stuff like that)

Reinforcing that our children are more important than money DOES NOT require that we allow them to waste family money by choosing activities and then quitting those activities to no consequences at all. Reinforcing that we love our children is about allowing them to try new things (maybe pay for 2 classes to try it, or one session to try it out with no consequence, but making it clear that if subsequent sessions are paid for they need to be either finished or the money repaid - especially when a child insists on signing up again), and encouraging them in the things they love. Children DO need to learn about money, and the earlier they start, the better off they will be.


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## HannahW (Jan 22, 2011)

When I was growing up, if we started something then we had to finish it. That said, I can remember many time thinking that I really wanted to do something then changing my mind after it was too late. I would prob tell her that she has to finish out this month or whatever a pay period is. It is understandable that kids change their minds, but she is also old enough to learn to stick it out (at least for a little while). In the mean time, do your best to make it fun again. Talk it up and get her excited for the evenings fun at ballet. Then when the time is over, tell her she can quit if she wants to but if she wants to keep going then she will have to finish the next time period.

If she flat out refuses to go, then I would make up some sort of boring activity to do while class would be going on (such as helping mama do chores or having to stay on her bed the whole time. Leave it up to her rather she goes or does something boring. Do not fight with her too much, just do not make it too fun to skip out on ballet.

P.S. Of course she wanted you to go ahead and by the outfit! It is prob really cute, and I am sure she wants to wear it (maybe just not at ballet). Tehehe!


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JennaW*
> 
> Also, as for the "gym membership analogy", I think a more comparable analogy would be this: I have been attending a yoga class for 4 years, I overall have seemed to really enjoy it but start to not enjoy it so much. I'm always complaining about it before I go to my DH, sometimes I just refuse to go even though my DH has made arrangements to be home early from work and make dinner. It comes time to sign up for the class again. My DH comes to me and says "It seems like you aren't really enjoying that class anymore, it's pretty expensive, are you sure you want to keep going? Sometimes its hard for me to get home from work early for you to go, I don't mind doing this if you enjoy it but it makes me feel sort of resentful when you are always complaining about it." I get upset with him and tell him I want to go! He says "Okay, okay, I just want to make sure before we spend this money but really I'm kind of tired of hearing you complain about it all the time." I start going to the class again, I keep complaining. I buy myself a new mat and yoga clothes with family funds, my DH comments how expensive these things are, especially for something I don't seem to be enjoying. I quit the class with plenty of pre-paid sessions left and my new clothes and mat are no longer being used. If I had a special bank account of my own where I saved up birthday money and money I had earned for side jobs, would it be unreasonable for my DH to ask me to replace the family funds? I don't think it would be.


This made me realize something. I think that some people are fearing that future classes will be handled by the OP by reminding her dd how she quit ballet. Maybe because there are parents like that out there who would hold this situation over their kid's head. There are parents who would've insisted their kid continue for 4 years after the kid wanted to quit in the first month. (Who had the euphonium addict mother? Seriously 6 years??)


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Sometimes I have a very hard time leaving the house, even to do things I enjoy and be around people I like. There are a lot of excuses I could make, but in the end, it boils down to anxiety. And then I sometimes get angry at myself about my own anxiety and sometimes that spills over to how I treat other people. So, when reading your post about your daughter, I immediately wondered if this could be the issue for her. I don't really have an opinion about whether your should make her pay or not, but I do think you should consider if some sort of therapy might be in order for your daughter. It's really rough living with sometimes crippling anxiety, and I think the sooner you help her learn the tools she needs to help her, the easier her life will be.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't think making her pay for lessons really is a natural consequence, because the money is gone whether she finishes the lessons or not. And the value of lessons doesn't come from being in a specific building for a set period of time, it comes from getting something out of those classes and enjoyment. If the child isnt' going to enjoy the classes and if there are fights and drama getting the child to go, I don't see how the money would be any less wasted if the child went at that point. It's kind of like making children clean their plates - finishing the food doesn't create more value or money, and eating food your body doesn't need isn't better than throwing food away. Both are wasteful.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> I don't think making her pay for lessons really is a natural consequence, because the money is gone whether she finishes the lessons or not. And the value of lessons doesn't come from being in a specific building for a set period of time, it comes from getting something out of those classes and enjoyment. If the child isnt' going to enjoy the classes and if there are fights and drama getting the child to go, I don't see how the money would be any less wasted if the child went at that point. It's kind of like making children clean their plates - finishing the food doesn't create more value or money, and eating food your body doesn't need isn't better than throwing food away. Both are wasteful.


No, I agree that it isn't exactly a natural consequence, but I think it's a logical one. Sometimes there just is not naturally a consequence to a child's actions.

That's not an option with this one.

I didnt feel that saying no to her this year when she wanted to rejoin was a good natural consequence. That, I think would have made her feel powerless over the choices she has in her life.
I cant think of what a natural consequence would be, to teach her about descision making and responsibility.

This DD of mine really needs boundaries and her behavior was horrendous.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mom2happy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


And I think that what you are doing, with having her pay back the amount the lesson's cost, is a great opportunity to teach her some decision making skills, and to begin teaching her about money, how it works, and what happens when we do something wasteful. I think you are doing a great job, and i think the consequence makes sense, b/c although it isn't natural it is logical. And in the future, when she makes decisions that waste her money, the consequence is going to be that she doesn't have that money to spend on other things that she needs/wants.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

I think you are doing a great job, too mama!

Another situaiton that popped in to my head from my child hood were voice lessons; that I really did enjoy very much. My parents worked, and I would be responsible for biking to the teachers home, have an hour lesson and bike back. I'm ashamed to say that some fridays I plumb forgot. My parents had to pay for lessons that I didn't show up to, and it was also incredibly rude ot my teachers. My parents stopped the lessons, but I wish that someone would have helped me figure out a way to get organized enough to go.

Basically-- I'm wondering if there is a way to make the leaving part easier on your daughter. That being said, again, I think you are being more than fair with her here.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mom2happy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

I think paying for class herself is a reasonable logical consequence. Back at the beginning of the thread you were concerned about the fact that this would pretty much empty her account. May be staying very positive about the whole thing would be helpful for her.

1 she stuck with the same activity for 4 years!

2 she had a lot of fun and has some happy memories.

3 she really tried to make it work. She's a very determined person.

4 she can gradually replace the money. May be she could do extra jobs around the house.

5 she'll learn a lot from the whole experience. Some times we learn the most through bumpy experiences. May be this will help her learn to trust her gut.

Peace!


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## catfood (Jan 23, 2011)

I'd demand a full refund from the studio, they made it comfortable for your daughter.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Future classes will be a fresh start.

I feel like the way I'm handling it will make it possible for her to know I will never shut her down when she says she wants to do something, but it will make her think about it and realize that she will have some responsibility involved.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> I think paying for class herself is a reasonable logical consequence. Back at the beginning of the thread you were concerned about the fact that this would pretty much empty her account. May be staying very positive about the whole thing would be helpful for her.
> 
> ...


Those are all of things I want for her.

I think this really will help her think about her own feelings; what she wants and doesnt want.

It will reinforce that she gets choices, but not every thing is as simple as "I dont wanna- so I'm not!"

She also wound up getting $50 from MIL for Christmas and I told her Daddy and I would be splitting the cost of the ballet money. This leaves her with $100 again, back at square one. She is pretty savy though, and would have preffered $150.

I am being positive about it. I asked her how she felt about not having to go to ballet last Fri.

Instead of being torn between still wanting to do ballet, but not wanting to go, she was happy she didnt have to go, but disappointed she was out the cash. So atleast this has brought us out something that wasnt moving forward. She is relieved and accepts the way it went down.

She is past it and now doesnt feel sad about "missing ballet" (atleast right now). I also like the fact that she doesnt feel like I took ballet away from her. It was all up to her.

I've decided to put the $50 toward our weekly produce for the family. I feel that I cant wait to think of something more clever and it has to be something now instead of later. I dont want to have this hanging over her head. I dont know how she will feel about. I'll update later what happens when I tell her.

Oh and also- that was her spending money account. NOT the money I have put away for her. She gets an allowance every week (unrelated to cleaning her room or little chores I ask her to do around the house. That is for her to spend. She also has the opportunity to work at MIL's salon and sweep hair to make money. She doesnt feel like it.

Im pretty sure she'll take that offer up one day though.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catfood*
> 
> I'd demand a full refund from the studio, they made it comfortable for your daughter.


I wouldn't. The studio is very clear about their policies, and their policies are reasonable and standard. I would *ask,* but I wouldn't demand.

The feeling of discomfort is coming from INSIDE the girl, not being inflicted on her by others. Her mom is pretty sure she has some sensory and anxiety issues. My DD has similar issues, and sometimes things just don't work. Parenting in these situations is very tricky,but it isn't any body's fault.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catfood*
> 
> I'd demand a full refund from the studio, they made it comfortable for your daughter.


Yes, this has nothing to do with the school or the teacher.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

OP i'm so glad you guys worked it out, it sounds like you did a great job on this one! 

*raises hand* i'm the one with the euphonium addict mother, but there is more to the story.

My mother was the 3rd of 4 kids, two older sisters (the eldest of whom was terribly damaged at birth, lived in an institution and died age 18), and a younger brother (who died age 2 when mum was 5, of a choking accident in his highchair).

So the older surviving sister was given piano lessons (which she didn't much want). She skipped class, didn't practice and wasted the money her (of modest means) parents spent. My mum wanted desperately to learn piano, her mother refused to spend the money because of how her sister had wasted it.

Fast forward...i was 8. My parents called the school and said they'd like me to try some instruments (i had no objection or preference -i didn't want to learn an instrument and yet was curious enough to want to try new things). I tried the flute. I could get a sound out of it, but had no particular affinity with it. After 2 lessons my teacher suggested we try something else as i was obviously having issues. I should say here that my father has Aspergers, amusia and SPD and i had both the latter but have mostly outgrown/overcome the SPD, but my mother was very musical, in a choir etc. Whenever my musical inabilities shone she made excuses, got mad or insisted i needed to try harder, i think she died thinking i could have cured my amusia if only i'd tried "properly". I moved to saxaphone, for 6 weeks i played it, then i wanted to quit and the teacher agreed with me, again, because it's quite hard and boring to play an instrument when one is tone deaf! I could read the music. I could play the notes. I couldn't particularly hear very well what i was playing, i could learn the notations but never remember how it was meant to sound even after many many playings. A few weeks later i was taken, with my class, to the brass room and given a trumpet to try. I couldn't get a sound out of it, but the tenor horn i could. That night i was informed i would be having horn lessons weekly and "not quitting this time". I vividly remember feeling nauseous with dread, sobbing for hours and begging my older siblings to help me convince my mother to not make me. They tried and failed.

For 6 years i played. I learned pieces up to grade 5 or 6 level but never sat my certificates because the first part of the exam was to sing a note played on the piano, and i could never do it, and nor could i tune my instrument. God knows how my poor teachers coped teaching a musically impaired, unwilling but conscientious child year after year after year...they weren't paid enough! I asked to quit at least once a year. One teacher, after i failed a trial grade 2 exam due to the piano/note issue, called and told my mother that after 3 years i was making very little progress and was not suited to the instrument. My mother merely insisted i practice an extra 4 hours a week. She had a way of asking what i wanted to do which guaranteed i gave the answer she wanted to hear. She never hit me, she barely shouted at me, but i feared her and her disapproval. I was once even convinced to join her choir so she could have the youngest daughter in the "adult" choir when i was 9. She said i "sang like a lark"! SERIOUSLY. Then after a few scores of my tuneless warbling she made up an excuse and took me home again, bathed in shame.

Eventually when i was 14 i just decided enough was enough and i HAD to quit, it was wasting hours of my life i wanted to spend studying, with friends, horseriding (which i was actually GOOD at). I made no technical progress beyond being able to read more complicated scores from age 9 to age 14. I never got a sweet sound out of it. I never played anything not mechanical and dead sounding (i am told). I never had a moment of joy at being able to play it. My teacher gave me a relieved smile when i said i wanted to quit, and told me to leave my (hired) instrument in the store room and that was that. Mum was in a bad mood with me for about 6 weeks (she bore a powerful grudge) and then it was never mentioned again.

As an adult i can see that 1) she "gave" me the lessons she desperately wanted but never got, 2) she refused to let me quit to get back at the sister whose quitting cost her HER chance at playing and 3) she decided at some point when i was a baby who i was and what i liked and even quite startling evidence to the contrary didn't phase her. Horseriding was a true passion for me, and yet she never saw me compete or even jump at home, she watched a few lessons when i was little and that was that. She was not at all proud of or even interested in my very real achievements there. Ironically i tried to please her until i was 18 and then quite suddenly i stopped. She was VERY angry for about 3 months, but i was away at university so i only encountered her rage once a week on the phone. Then she got over it and decided that actually she liked the Real Me much better.

I learned so much from that experience. When i see something my kids might like i make sure to figure out if it is for THEM or for me. I pay close attention to what DD is *actually* interested in/good at, rather than what i think she will/should be (like when we went to the beach and after i asked 3 times i realised it was ME who wanted a ride on a donkey, not DD!). I would never press my child to do something they hated, and if i feel the strong burning urge for them to try or do something i examine it closely to see if actually it is ME who wants to do it.

My mother would NEVER have offered me the chance to pay for the classes instead of going to them, because she knew i would do so gladly, gratefully, in a heartbeat. I really, seriously, wish she had just bought HERSELF piano lessons.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

I think you did great, OP.

Very reasonable.


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## homestyle (Nov 22, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoBecGo*
> 
> I learned so much from that experience. When i see something my kids might like i make sure to figure out if it is for THEM or for me. I pay close attention to what DD is *actually* interested in/good at, rather than what i think she will/should be (like when we went to the beach and after i asked 3 times i realised it was ME who wanted a ride on a donkey, not DD!). I would never press my child to do something they hated, and if i feel the strong burning urge for them to try or do something i examine it closely to see if actually it is ME who wants to do it.
> 
> My mother would NEVER have offered me the chance to pay for the classes instead of going to them, because she knew i would do so gladly, gratefully, in a heartbeat. I really, seriously, wish she had just bought HERSELF piano lessons.


Your story is so touching, GoBecGo. Thanks for sharing it more fully. I'm going to remember this one.


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## roadwork (Jan 24, 2011)

I have a policy based on my little brother always stopping activities, and now he is a flake. No way saying this will happen to you. I also have a sensitive daughter. We have to finish what we start.

I also have had struggles getting ready for soft ball and soccer, at 6.5 years. Now we are doing girls scouts, and selling cookies is like pulling teeth. But we have to understand, that wearing a cool uniform, or going to fun activities, includes a bit of work. That is hard to teach a young child, but I figure this will help instill it.

I am not a drill seargent however. I do it as gently as possible, sometimes helping to put on shoes where I usually would not, or telling her after she can watch a nice movie of hers, or pack a special food item she likes. Sometimes she is bored there, but most times she likes it once she is there.

Good luck


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## Jewls9791 (Jan 25, 2011)

I took ballet from age three untill I was 19!

I remember a time when I would do exactly as your daughter was and it was because the teacher had been telling me I was too fat to take point class like the rest of my classmates and was riding me really hard about well.. everything. It got to the point that my friends were whispering about me in the changeroom because the teacher talked about me to them. She would tell them to pressure me to stop eating.

I was 13 at the time.

I never told anyone about this because I was embarrased and hurt.

Lucky for me the teacher was such so sure of her "teaching" style that she called my parents and told them to put me on a diet. For the record I was NOT overweight. I was however going through puberty so my balance was off and I was growing breast. Duh right?! My parents IMMEDIATELY pulled me from lessons at this studio and found a more healthy environment for me to continue my passion for dance. The issues of temper tantrums and battles to get ready and get in the car stopped instantly and I continued to LOVE dance for many many years and I still do.

I share this only to give you another perspective.

Good luck!!!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

GoBecGo: Thank you for sharing your story. I know a man with a similar background (parents both professional musicians, but he's completely tone deaf). His mom is still alive, and their relationship is still trashed by her disappointment in him and belief that he just didn't try hard enough, etc.


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## matte (Dec 26, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jewls9791*
> 
> I took ballet from age three untill I was 19!
> 
> ...


Just seconding this perspective. You mentioned, OP, that your daughter is not small. Is she bigger than many of the kids in her class (taller, maybe more athletically built?). Just wondering, because I had a lot of fear around ballet at that age, for reasons similar to the ones listed above, though my teachers were much more subtle... might be worth digging further into the class dynamics for some perspective of what's causing this sudden about face...


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## Gismobabe (Apr 21, 2009)

This is a hard on and we had a similar situation last fall. In the end I think that it will be too hard for you to take her against her will and too hard for her to go if she made up her mind. I am not sure if money means anything to her, so taking the money from her bank account might not even cause her a second thought. What about writing a list of what the class cost and give her a chaoice of either "working it off" with extra chores or say no to every item she wants (ice cream, carussel ride, cute t-Shirt) and take that amount off the list until she has paid it. This would be a consequence my 6.5 year old would understand.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mom2happy*
> 
> Things is, she could care less about time with friends. She is a very introverted. Also, when she rages, she honestly cares less about what she loses.
> 
> ...


OK, this sounds a lot like my older daughter when she was younger. And actually my younger daughter now, but in a different way. My younger daughter, 7, is pretty explosive, and if you give her a consequence, suddenly the thing you want to take away is the enemy. So if I say, "Look, you really need to put your toys away before you go to bed tonight, or some of them will be going in the trash (like the little plastic things she gets from wherever and leaves all over for days), she'll blow up and say, "FINE, I'll throw it away NOW!" Then she stomps over to the trash can and throws toys away that she was just playing with, not the ones that were left out from before. And then when I ask why she is doing that, she says I obviously want them in the trash. With her I feel like she is incredibly strong-willed and willing to fight to get her own way.

My older daughter would have these periods where it just felt like she couldn't do what I was asking of her, and it felt like she just couldn't cope, so I gave her a little leeway. So if she dropped something right in the middle of the floor, and I asked her to pick it up, she might have a meltdown, but later when she was calmer, she'd put it away. I would sign her up for things like the Little Gym or swim lessons and she'd want to do it, but then when the time came to go to the class, she didn't want to go, it was boring, etc., and if I pushed her on it, she'd get increasingly agitated and fight going. Sometimes I'd let her miss, but then she would want to do things that she couldn't miss, like a play where she agreed to be there before she took the part. For swim lessons, I just had to give a one month notice, but it got strung along for awhile. She missed a lot of classes, but then I gave the one month notice and she started wanting to go, but it was too late.

So the bottom line would be that taking the money out of her bank account is probably worth it to her at this point. If she says take it all, it's because the money doesn't have the same meaning to her that it does to us. At least that's how it is with us; my kids ultimately know if they want to do something and are dedicated, I'll pay for them to do it, and I end up buying them things too, so they don't get the whole money thing. They do get their own money to spend, and I think they are more judicious with it, but my older daughter only seems to really made a conscious attempt to save up for something in the last year, and even while she is saving, she'll ask me to take her to Starbucks.

Right now, if you need the money more than she needs it in her account, take it. Or just leave it in her account for later, but don't let her spend it. Then when she talks about wanting this or that, with these whims of iron that many children have, you can bring up the price of this and compare it to a dance lesson or a recital costume and do the whole, "resources are limited, we have to choose carefully" talk, and maybe that will help in the longterm. Because my daughters would say, "Yeah, I want to do it, sign me up again" when we were there doing the lesson, but when it came time to go to the class, they would still put up a fight, and then tell me I should just cancel it and get my money back--they really didn't get it at that age.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Viola*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I was trying to get across that when she is in the heat of the moment she doesn't care what she loses. She basically loses any rational thought whatsoever.

As far as the money goes. She gets it. She is a bit of a hoarder and she counts her cash every once in a while. She has purchased several things from stores and is aware of what a lot of things cost.

This also wasn't a heat of the moment decision. I worked with her for months on this issue and this was the talked about agreed upon final outcome.

She wound up getting more money and gets an allowance. She has more cash than I had till I was a teenager and got a job!

Of course I feel bad to take anything from her. I only want happiness and peace for her. She just keeps doing so many of the same things over until there is a real boundary set.

Just letting things go doesn't work with this DD. She seems to NEED consequences to be able to control herself sometimes.

Do I technically need her $50? No, but I feel like I have to this to make some impact in her mind that the behavior she had was not okay.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

My kids are like this too, I know it's not that unusual. I often wonder aloud why it is kids seem to have no self preservation instinct. Oh well, glad you worked it out.



> Originally Posted by *mom2happy*
> 
> I was trying to get across that when she is in the heat of the moment she doesn't care what she loses. She basically loses any rational thought whatsoever.


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