# Totally unmotivated kids



## operamommy (Nov 9, 2004)

*heavy sigh* I'll try to make this as concise as possible.

My ds1 is almost 14, and my dd is 11. I know what's developmentally appropriate for their ages, so please understand that this is beyond a "normal pre/teen thing."

My two oldest children have had every opportunity they could ask for. We've done all the "right" things. We read out loud to them, have been involved with their schools, set good examples of volunteerism and concern for the environment, provided a very stable home, encouraged them to join 4-H, scouts, and sports, etc.

I don't understand why my kids are the way that they are.







My dh and I both feel that we have failed horribly somewhere along the way as parents. Neither one of them is doing very well in school as they refuse to work to their potential, or even many times to very basic things like study for tests or do homework. It has been this way literally since they started kindergarten. Neither one of them sticks with ANYTHING or will assume any type of responsibility. My 3-year-old remembers to put his shoes on the bench when entering the house or to clean up his spot after eating, but neither one of the older two seem to be capable of the same things.

They don't want to work for anything, be it money, more privelages, or just plain pride. They seem to have none. They're responsible for doing the dishes every night after dinner (we have a dishwasher). Despite having this responsibility for over a year, as well as a written list of tasks that have to be completed, they are still "unable" to straighten the kitchen/do dishes under 45 minutes and without us reminding them what to do. We had an event at my dd's school tonight, and I was embarassed when I saw her science project on display with all of the other children's. When she pointed out a friend's much nicer project, I asked her if she didn't wish she'd worked harder on hers. She said, no and laughed. Oh, and she said that the other projects were nicer because they spent more money (which didn't make any sense at all!). And yes, I tried to help her with her project beforehand.

My dd is outright disobedient and refuses to do what we ask a lot of the time. They are both lazy, and I just don't get it. My ds1 switched to baritone in band (from trumpet) because he doesn't have to bring it home to practice with (it's owned by the school, unlike his trumpet). He just doesn't want to practice or work at anything. He's currently taking guitar lessons (his choice) and I have to tell him all the time to practice, or ask him if he has. He asked me the other day what was wrong with being average. My dd *finally* expressed an interest in something - fencing - so we signed her up for lessons. Well, it's too much work so now she wants to quit. And yes, we've been through this with dance, baseball, 4-H, etc.

I feel so sad when I look at them. I see such a loss of potential. Their biological dad (whom they both adore and want to live with) is pretty unstable, constantly switching jobs and addresses, lies all the time, etc. - and they seem to emulate him instead of the example that we've worked to provide. They both seem to be following in his footsteps. He's almost 40 and lives with his mom, and has never been employed or lived at the same place for more than 18 months.







I'm afraid that they'll turn out just like him.

I could use some support or advice. Right now I feel like the world's worst mom.


----------



## eggsandpancakes (Oct 16, 2007)

I don't have teenagers. Yet. But it sounds to me like a "Love and Logic" type situation would REALLY help around the house. They don't do the dishes without you hovering? Okay, no food. Won't practice instruments? Fine, you don't pay for any more lessons. Don't do homework? Okay, they fail a grade. Fail grades and drop out of school? It's a shame they can't get a job. They'd better find someplace to live where food and water and towel usage is free.
It sounds like you tend to hover, and they never HAVE to do anything, because you are right there telling them what to do _constantly_.
Yes, I realize that something medically may be wrong with their brains, given that their bio-dad exhibits the same characteristics. But they have got to learn to survive on their own, and without natural repercussions to the behaviors that are driving you crazy, they will be 40 and whining because you didn't buy cheetos.


----------



## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

I only have a little one, so I don't have any advice. But, wanted to send you a


----------



## chiromamma (Feb 24, 2003)

Operamommy, I could have written that post. My genders are switched though...14yo DD and 12yo DS I have 3 brilliant kids and the 7yo is more responsible than the older 2. L&L has not "worked."
Advice/Realizations
~I cannot force my kids to care. I tried forcing learning and motivation and work ethic and pride in their talents down their throats. It's like trying to force someone to love you.
~I won't allow them to quit stuff. Once committed, they have to finish the season or year or whatever period of time they've signed up for.
~Schools often don't have consequences for incomplete or poorly done work. I don't know if your DD received equal credit for her project as the classmate who worked harder. I know that is often the case in many schools.
I think this is a huge problem. I will often hear "well the teacher doesn't care if I turn it in late/incomplete/not at all, why should you?" Yes, I know lots of kids who have a strong work ethic, that take pride in their work no matter what. I just don't have those kinds of kids.
~I look for something my kids are taking pride in. For example, DD was totally immersed in InStyle magazine. It drives me nuts. Then I noticed she knew so much about different designers and elements of clothing design. She and her girlfriend design clothing and are working (sporadically) on making some clothes. DD also found Kung Fu at the height of her amotivation.
~I am pulling back. DD has a total adult relationship in her dojo. We pay the fees and that's it. Consequently, she spends up to 15 hours a week there. She's begun teaching lower belt classes to get credit towards weekend intensives. Same for DS and guitar. His teacher told us never to mention guitar or practice at home. Leave it to him and DS. It took a LONG time but DS is practicing on his own, writing songs.
~I don't object to incentives or competition. DD's school is doing a speech contest. She's a brilliant writer and excellent public speaker. She could easily win. I promised myself I would not nag or remind her to do it. It's optional. This is very hard given her talents. Yesterday, she showed me a Hello Kitty Sigg bottle. I told her I'd get it for her if she was the 8th grader giving the speech at graduation. Would I prefer she do it for the pride of doing a great job and the opportunity to express appreciation to the school? Yes. But if this will move her towards feeling pride when she's up there, it's Ok by me.
~I try to focus on one thing at a time. I celebrate inwardly when DS 1 sits down and reads a book. I jump up and down when DD cleans the pit of despair(her room) without being told. I thank them when they do thorough job in the kitchen.
~My kids need to be passionate about something or it's an after-thought. At different times, they have given their all to school. This has been when the unit of study was particularly fascinating to them. This is a good thing but I'd like some balance. One needs basic math skills in order to balance a checkbook, etc. So DD hates math but she needs to achieve basic competency. DS1 dislikes writing but it's a skill we all need.
That's all I have to offer for now. But I totally empathize with you!
Sometimes we joke that the first 2 were our practice children. Our youngest is our real kid!


----------



## ziggy (Feb 8, 2007)

My mom probably felt the same way about me that you do about your kids. She was forever telling her friends, on the phone and well within my hearing distance, how I never helped around the house and took everything in the world for granted. Now, aside from this being totally untrue, it didn't exactly motivate me to do anything. The big thing here is that I HATE praise. I hate it. I can't respond when somebody tells me I've done something really well and I think it always sounds disingenuous. Even if my mother was being genuine (which, in her case, I don't think she was ) with her praise, it was highly annoying. I'd do everything I could to avoid her totally over the top remarks.

Also, when she did notice I'd done something nice, she'd throw it back in my face foooorrrrreeeeevvvvveeerrrrrr. I mopped the kitchen floor once a week. I'd been doing this after school for about 3 years by the time my mother noticed. I don't know how she thought the floor was getting cleaned, but the one time she saw me mop the floor she made this big production about how I was such a big helper (I was 16) and she was so happy I was finally helping out around the house, and then a couple weeks later she said "Angie, I need you to mop the floor today. I know you're capable of it, I saw you do it the other day, so don't even think of pulling that 'I don't know how crap'" I'd already mopped the floor since the time she'd seen me. I still mopped the floor. When she asked if I had I usually responded with "well, does it LOOK clean?" or something along those lines.

I'm not saying that's your situation, but my mother viewed me as the laziest human on the face of the planet, when I really wasn't. Might THEY perceive that they are doing more?


----------



## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Going through this right now with a 10yo. It's not _as bad_, but it's still frustrating.

I'm letting him fail. It is not my job to remind or nag when it's written down and well known what he has to do. If he doesn't wipe down the table, he's the only eating there. The rest of us move to a cleaner room. If he doesn't put his clothes in the laundry, he doesn't have clean ones (took 3 weeks of him wearing stuff to the point of it being FILTHY and missing his award ceremony because of it before the point hit home.) He's repeating his English curriculum next year because he turned in work like "there is a bed in my room. So I use it. Moving on." because 3 sentences equal a paragraph, right??? Oy.

If the kids don't clean the kitchen, you don't have to cook for them. If they don't do the work at school, let them repeat. If they show no progress at the lessons, don't re-enroll.

The point is to not care more than they do. It doesn't make any sense to be the one driving them at this age. They have to have the chance to fall down a little bit so that they can care, not have someone care _for them_. I set my own standards as to what I will put up with - I won't eat at a dirty table, I won't go out with someone who is dirty and stinky. If he wants to be that way, that's fine, but I don't have to put up with it. I can do my own thing.

I would suggest the book How To Talk So Kids Will Listen....so you can get to the root of the issue when they complain the lessons are too hard or complain in general. Often, it's not what we think.


----------



## operamommy (Nov 9, 2004)

Thanks so much for the replies. I had to give myself a few days to breathe and calm down! I'm not quite so depressed about the situation now.









chiromamma, it made me feel so relieved to know that we weren't the only parents dealing with children like this. It's so easy to assume that somehow we caused it all by bad parenting. I find myself playing the guilt game a lot with myself and re-thinking things I did years and years ago when they were little.

I think that dd getting her first "F" on her report card this time around has made her re-think things quite a bit. She's mentioned to me several times (without me asking) that she's trying to do a lot better in school.







Maybe that was the kick in the butt she needed. We talked about how yucky getting bad grades on your report card makes you feel.

And weirdly enough, the last time I took ds1 to his guitar practice he got all fired up about it and decided that he wants to save up and purchase a new guitar. I don't know if he'll really do it or not, but I've decided no more nagging about practicing. If he doesn't practice, we'll spend that almost $1000 a year on something else instead of his lessons. I really loved what LilyGrace said about not caring more than they do. That makes a lot of sense to me.

ziggy, your post reminded me that I need to be very careful and make sure that I'm praising their efforts when they do help out. My big kids do have a lot of positives going for them. My ds1 is a HUGE reader; he reads for at least an hour every single night before bed. He also is very into making stop-motion movies, which we try to support him in as much as we can. Dd is so caring and is wonderful with her smaller brothers. She told me the other day that when she finishes fencing that she'd like to become involved in theatre, which I think will be wonderful.

I'm trying to remind myself that we've done everything possible to give them a firm foundation. They have to start making their own choices and (hopefully!!) learning from bad ones before they're completely on their own one day.


----------



## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

I think Ziggy didn't like praise. So she didn't mean praise more, she may have meant don't complain where they can hear you. I think a simple thank you can sometimes be better than praise.


----------



## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

No advice, but my friends who have teenagers often say the same thing. So you definitely are not alone.


----------



## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Yes, sometimes they are very good at "digging their own hole". I fuss and then back away. I don't want them to hate me but that doesn't mean I won't let them know that some things are unacceptable to me and hubby. As far as we are concerned... school is their job.


----------



## ziggy (Feb 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ssh* 
I think Ziggy didn't like praise. So she didn't mean praise more, she may have meant don't complain where they can hear you. I think a simple thank you can sometimes be better than praise.

Exactly - I hated it when my mother would go on and on about how great it was when I did something, but then I'd hear her on the phone telling her best friend how awful I was or whatever.

Just saying "thanks for doing the dishes" is SOOO much better than "oh my gosh thank you so much for doing the dishes sweetheart, it means sooooo much to me when you help out! And see how easy it was! You can do that more often! It wasn't that hard, was it??" Makes me never want to do the dishes again!


----------



## montlake (Mar 13, 2008)

My therapist helped me see this in a different way with my kids. You raised them with certain values. They are now at a place in their lives where they are ready to test that, and discover is what mom and dad believe really true in the world? At some point we all test what our parents taught us and we come out the other side feeling like it's just not for us, or completely reinforced in those values/beliefs. They are learning that not working hard in school is going to have negative results. Like you can tell a little kid "that's hot, it's going to burn you" and at some point they are going to try touching it anyway.

It's not your job to make them understand what hard work brings them. But it is your job to make them comply with your house rules. One thing that worked for us was switching how privileges work. Instead of the blank slate = all privileges and then taking away as a punitive measure, the blank slate = no provileges and they get them AFTER they have done what's required of them by our house rules.


----------



## GenB (May 28, 2007)

I, too, could have written that thread. I have a ds 16 who does not yet have his drivers license because he is too lazy to complete the online course. He' flunking at hte expensive private school he goes to so we are yanking him out and sending him to a public school (which in our town aren't great.)

DD, 20 now, has finally developed a very good work ethic but we can't get her to pay attention to school at all. She takes a few classes at the local junior college but won't decide what or where she wants to go. We're done with that as of this semester. Oh - btw, she has a GED because she also didn't pay attention in high school - played, spent money, dated really bad guys, etc. so the same private school DS attends invited her to leave her senior year. It was too late - she was too far behind - to get her into another school. Now she lives at home and works full time, takes a few classes at night and is somewhat better, but leaves a mess at home for me, is completely self-absorbed, etc.

DS is a very sweet kid but will not work at ANYTHING. At all. No sports, school, etc. If its not fun, forget it.

And YOU feel like a bad parent???? DH says daily we should have stuck to dogs.


----------



## darcytrue (Jan 23, 2009)

I have always been told that you have to start at an early age by teaching children to do things for themself, especially chores and cleaning up after themselves.







I started early with my son, who is now a teen and he is pretty good about it but I still have to stay on top of him when he doesn't clean up after himself. He's only human though, but as his parent I stay on him, and not in a mean way but in a reminder sort of way. He has many chores to complete each week, mostly outdoor yardwork and he does it when we ask, no complaining. But inside he usually forgets to clean up after fixing himself something to eat or he will forget to get his laundry ready, little things like that. But he has been doing all of this since he was much younger and he knows what we want him to do and usually tries to do it. I do know that my own parents never would have allowed me to live in their home and not do my chores, school and clean up after myself, especially if I was over the age of 18.


----------



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)




----------



## operamommy (Nov 9, 2004)

GenB, I spoke with my very wise MIL this past week, who reminded me that her own parents raised 3 kids all exactly the same way. My MIL and one of her brothers have led very stable, happy lives. Her other brother is 53 and STILL can't hold a job. He's basically a big stoner.







He wasn't raised that way, and our kids haven't been either. Sometimes they make choices that we can't control. *hugs*

darcytrue, I really wish it was as easy as just starting them early. Believe me, I've done all you described with my older children (and more!) since they were toddlers. I honestly don't believe that there's a simple answer here.

montlake, we've started the "blank slate" as you suggested and I'm liking that much better than taking away things. It's so much easier to answer requests with, "You haven't earned that privilege today" - I think it really helps put the focus on THEM and their choices.


----------



## dollyanna (Jan 29, 2008)

:


----------



## bronxmom (Jan 22, 2008)

Do your kids know that you feel that their biological dad - who they adore - is lazy and unreliable and generally not worthy of respect? It doesn't matter what the reality is, he's their father and they love him (understandably so). They will take criticism of him as criticism of themselves b/c they identify with their parent. This can lead to rebellion, wanting to be closer to the other parent, etc.

Honestly, I could imagine your kids feeling pressured to be this "perfect family with perfect kids" (in fact, it sounds a little like you feel that pressure) and digging in their heels. They may resent the constant "improvement" reminders. What's their relationship like with your dh? How often do they see their dad?

I think there may be stepfamily issues here too. Adolescence is often when kids start wanting more of a relationship with their biological parents (esp non-residential) and wanting to understand more about their family of origin. How the residential parents handle that is important. I.e., being supportive of that desire and NEVER bad-talking about the other parent - no matter how much they might deserve it.


----------



## Green Eyes (Apr 10, 2009)

I can understand what you are going through.







We give our children options we would have _loved_ to have, yet they take it for granted and miss the opportunities we want for them.









When our daughter was 9, she wanted piano lessons, and since we let her have one activity (scouts, sports, lessons, etc.) outside of school, I signed her up with a local teacher. Daughter was amazing, her teacher astounded, she flew through an entire year of lessons in six months! _She barely practiced_, but her teacher told me she was very gifted. At about seven months into the lessons, the music got quite a bit more difficult. Did she see it as a challenge and start really practicing? Nope. She cried that she couldn't do it and worked herself up into such a lather about it every week that I ended up canceling the lessons. She was mad about it at first but then she was relieved (I think).

She is going to play saxophone next year so we'll see how that goes. I hope that playing with a group will motivate her to keep up, but it's really up to her.

Thankfully, she is very motived about some things, but I know how you feel about wasted potential.









My advice:

Set up a "learning hour" for after they have had their snacks after school. We set a timer and daughter can do anything that contributes to learning (no listening to music during this time). This has worked REALLY well! She does any homework during that time, and doesn't rush through it since she has to use the entire hour. Days when she doesn't have homework, she can read, write, do science experiments, go over multiplication facts, anything that contributes to learning. I've even let her sew during this hour sometimes since that is constructive.

She is usually so into what she's started that she continues working on whatever she started long after the hour is over.

Take away the distractions... TV is a _huge_ un-motivator, so cancel the cable (if you have it) or even get rid of the TV. Limit play time with outside kids (for a while). If they don't already, make sure your kids have lots of books and graphic novels that they like. Whatever is eating up their time in the afternoons/evenings, take it away and they will be forced to read, or otherwise amuse themselves in a creative way. It's not structured like lessons, but it's still learning, at least.

I agree what others have said that we should back off and let the natural consequences fall... if they don't have clean clothes because they won't put them in the hamper, then they wear dirty clothes to school, etc. If it takes an hour for they to clean the kitchen, then they have to clean for an hour. I love natural consequences.

Good luck! And remember, they have many years ahead to wise up and get motivated!


----------



## mmace (Feb 12, 2002)

I could have just about written your post word for word, my daughter is 15. Homework, studying, etc. has been nothing but a struggle between us all year.

This nine weeks things have gotten better because I've linked assignments to her cell phone. I know, totally not logical consequences, but it's worked. She was simply not doing assignments - both homework and in class, because she "didn't want to". Our school participates in Edline, a site that I can check as often as I want to monitor her grades/assignments/etc. Most teachers update it every few days. The new rule was if there was an assignment missing the cell phone would be taken away until the assignment was turned in or for one week, whichever was a longer period of time. Every single assignment has been done since that rule went into effect.

Today she finally began to see the light - she failed health the first semester of school this year. She said she didn't like the teacher. She said the teacher hated her. She didn't like who she sat near. She just didn't want to do the homework. None of her friends were in her class. It was stupid. And on, and on, and on. She tried to tell me that although it was a required class, she was not required to pass it. Basically she just didn't care.

Today she came home and told me that she has two options:

1. Take health in summer school or
2. Drop an elective and take it next year as a sophomore and have to take tutoring as well.

She wants to take summer school and I refused her, for two reasons:

1. Summer school costs me $, both for the course and for gas taking her to and from the school every day and
2. Summer school will be a pain in the butt for me and her younger siblings, which is totally not fair for us.

If this had been a class that she had put time and effort into, struggled with, and still failed I might have considered it, but her simply not caring is her own fault and she will have to deal with it next year. I'm sure she considers me the meanest mom in the world right now.


----------



## operamommy (Nov 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bronxmom* 
Do your kids know that you feel that their biological dad - who they adore - is lazy and unreliable and generally not worthy of respect? It doesn't matter what the reality is, he's their father and they love him (understandably so). They will take criticism of him as criticism of themselves b/c they identify with their parent. This can lead to rebellion, wanting to be closer to the other parent, etc.

Honestly, I could imagine your kids feeling pressured to be this "perfect family with perfect kids" (in fact, it sounds a little like you feel that pressure) and digging in their heels. They may resent the constant "improvement" reminders. What's their relationship like with your dh? How often do they see their dad?

I think there may be stepfamily issues here too. Adolescence is often when kids start wanting more of a relationship with their biological parents (esp non-residential) and wanting to understand more about their family of origin. How the residential parents handle that is important. I.e., being supportive of that desire and NEVER bad-talking about the other parent - no matter how much they might deserve it.


Hmm. I'm not sure where you get that anyone in my family feels pressure to be perfect, including me! I don't see expecting them to pass their classes at school and keep their rooms decent as "improvement reminders." They're just things that need to be done.







I think that perhaps you're reading things into the situation that aren't there - which is of course easy to do when it's just a web post! I think the suggestions you listed were great, but we've always done those things.


----------



## operamommy (Nov 9, 2004)

Green Eyes, believe it or not...my ds1 is currently reading "Moby Dick." On his own, just b/c he's interested in it. Yep, the kid who had a progress report with an F and a D on it is reading about the big white whale. Figure that one out!







At least he loves to read, and always has. I *have* noticed a HUGE improvement in his attitude/motivation since he lost his computer rights due to his bad grades, so I think you're definately right about the idea of TV, etc being "unmotivating." I love the idea of a Learning Hour and am going to start one for both kids.

Still having lots of issues with dd. Outright disobeying, lying, etc. mmace, she would fight your dd over who has the "meanest mom in the world" right now, 'cause she thinks it's me!


----------



## Labbemama (May 23, 2008)

Same here Operamom-my "unmotivated" 15 yo. dd is reading the AP list including Grapes of Wrath and I know why the caged bird sings but she couldn't write a paper on 19 minutes though she had much to say about how much she hated it. Maddening completely maddening but atleast I can comfort myself with the fact that she can read if she wants to. She also surprised me at dinner the child is failing algebra-but can calculate Madonna's weight in slices of bologna! So maybe some of it is sinking in even though she isn't using it with any regularity.

I was just checking back to see how the OP's child is doing. I hope there has been some change for the better. 

I am just praising her for her efforts towards learning and telling her that I only want her to be happy and enjoy learning. It's a new approach. LOL she is shocked to say the least. I'm resolved not to nag and to just let her experience the consequences of her choices.


----------



## robin4kids (Jan 20, 2004)

First off, I am not trying to be mean to those with only younger children, but I really think that until you have been there, you can't give any advice.

I have an 11 y/o and 13 y/o along with a 9, 6 and 3 y/o. I too am dealing with unmotivated children. My 13 y/o is the worst and unfortunately, his brother is following his suit. We too have given our kids EVERY opportunity and still they have no desire to study hard for a test, or work for more than an hour on a project. My ds was crying yesterday because my 9 y/o dd gave me a study sheet for exams and it occurred to me my older kids should have been given one as well. When my ds finally pulled out his packet I knew he had had it for some time. He does not want to study for his exams. He wants to play outside.

Here is what i am thinking is the problem. You won't like it, but I have observed this kind of behavior with other kids as well. I think that we are giving our kids too many opportunities. When they want to try something we say, "sure" and shell out the money. When they tire of the activity we say o.k. There needs to be a clear expectation for all activities. If they start a sport they must do it for the full season, or year, or the 10 lessons it is offered. If they start a sport and do it for a few years then that is there sport. They can't do another till they get to high school. My three oldest are on a swim team. That is our sport. No backing out, you do it. If you choose to not do it, you don't get another sport and you HAVE to go to every meet and watch your siblings. When I was little I did gymnastics. I did not take a music lesson and play 10 other sports. Gymnastic was all.

As for the lack of motivation in school, I just don't know. I will say that my ds is in 7th grade in a Catholic school. We told him if he does not get a certain average at the end of the year he will be spending his 8th grade year in a public school. He said fine, he did not care. I know he will when he has to leave all his friends for the last year of elementary.

We have been thinking of developing a chart with chores and responsibilities in every box. Each child will have there own. We will reward them with certain activities when they complete a certain number of responsibilities. The faster they complete them, the sooner they get a reward. (Like going to a movie, ice cream ect.) My dh said that the reward could get bigger as they do more stuff. They could choose not to get a reward and instead get more points for a bigger one. Like a game at a fair. The thing with this is we have to keep on top of the charts EVERY day. a lot of work.

Let me know if you find a cure for the unmotivated child.
Robin


----------



## MamieCole (Jun 1, 2007)

Add me to the list of "meanest mother in the world" with a totally unmotivated teenager.

I am at the end of my rope. My 15 year old DD has TWO responsibilties: get passing grades at school and keep her room clean. She doesn't do either and acts like the world is coming to an end and flips out with complete tamtrums when we ask about grades or remind her to clean her room. She is currently failing 3 classes. She does not keep her room clean, despite frequent reminders. The failing grades are new, her refusal to keep her room clean has been going on for YEARS. We've tried a million things. When she brought home 3 F's we took away her cell phone, her computer and her television, plus grounded her in the effort to make sure that her only focus was school. I've arranged for tutoring at school for the class she is failing due to lack of understanding (math.) And the other two classes she is failing because she refuses to study for tests and is missing a ton of assignments that she simply either didn't do or "forgot" to turn in. It's been 6 weeks since the intial failing report and she hasn't brought her grades up at all.

In regard to her room, we've gone so far as to take away all clothing left on the floor or not put where it belongs (closet or drawers). We collected basically her entire wardrobe over the period of
a couple of weeks. She was well aware that we would be taking anything left on the floor when she left for school. She didn't care until she was down to just a couple of shirts and one pair of pants. She "earned" back some clothing by keeping her room clean: One piece of clothing for each day her room was clean without us asking. Once she got back enough clothing to satisfy herself, she started leaving them on the floor again. So we started taking them again. She just. doesn't. care.

She doesn't enjoy anything except socializing with friends. She doesn't care about doing well, she just wants to put in the minimal effort to "get by." And now she isn't even doing that.

I am so sick of it.


----------



## annarbor931 (Dec 11, 2004)

My DD is the same kind of kid. I have never seen someone so flat or unmotivated in anything. The thing is that she is a good student for the most part because school has not been very challenging yet. She is going into HS in the fall and we suspect that this will change. I have never seen anyone who literally didn't care about anything but herself. She cannot complete a chore without being bugged, or do anything productive. I too realized that I can't care more than she does. But, we have set some limits for her that do seem to work. Phone and computer time are earned on a daily basis--no chores, failure to do homework, etc, means no phone the following day. Also, she does not get spending money unless she earns it--no games, clothes, etc. beyond what she gets for school unless she earns it. This does help, but doesn't solve the bigger problem of no motivation, interests or realization that she is growing up and new things are required of her.


----------



## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *operamommy* 
We had an event at my dd's school tonight, and I was embarassed when I saw her science project on display with all of the other children's. When she pointed out a friend's much nicer project, I asked her if she didn't wish she'd worked harder on hers. She said, no and laughed. Oh, and she said that the other projects were nicer because they spent more money (which didn't make any sense at all!). And yes, I tried to help her with her project beforehand.


I would say that yes, spending more money can make a difference in appearance. And many parents do the projects for their kids, skewing the field.


----------



## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sparklefairy* 
I would say that yes, spending more money can make a difference in appearance. And many parents do the projects for their kids, skewing the field.

Yep, sometimes the extra money for supplies can make a big difference. I'll happily supply what's needed. But refuse to do the project.

My son (17) is similar in terms of not doing homework, etc. He'd much rather compose, talk to his g/f, goof around on the computer. He's different in that he fully understands that he needs to get the grades to meet his future aspirations (and that he will catch hell from his Dad if he doesn't get some decent grades). And so he pulls it out at the last minute. He pulled an all-nighter last week to finish half of his missing AP Calc work. He still has the other half, plus History, plus AP English work to complete. It's going to be a busy few weeks - and he's getting no sympathy from me. Trying to get him to look for a job for the summer is like pulling teeth.

My daughter (15) is completely self-motivated. She generally has 3-4 hours of homework a night (math/science magnet school), plays a sport, baby/dog sits, is involved in a community service group promoting environmental/wildlife issues, runs 5 & 10k's and something else I'm forgetting. She would rather die than not hand in homework, and often does additional work just because she's found an interesting topic. (i.e. last week, they were studying the Holocaust - which is a topic she's always been fascinated by - and she got to wondering what ever happened with Hitler's body. She wrote a 3-page paper on the information she found and gave it to her teacher. Just because.) She's already got her summer planned out - a week in SC with a friend, a week at her Dad's, she's talked me into taking a group of friends backpacking, interning with a local vet a few days a week, volunteering with a Save The Bay group the other days of the week, training for FH season. Makes my head spin.

My point? Some kids just are the way they are.


----------



## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

I wouldn't be very motivated about school work







:

My kids don't work as hard as their teachers think the should and they aren't jumping around saying how much fun school is either.

Ds1 doesn't want to "please" his teachers because he doesn't respect them and feels manipulated by a system where high grades produce high rankings for our schools in nationally published league tables.

15/16yos are not in the best place in their lives to be dealing with school and its expectations of obedience and control IMHO. Over the past few years I have given him more and more freedom and obvious respect at home whilst school has been acting in the opposite direction increasing control and restricting freedom.

I believe that I am preparing my son for an adult life where he will have to think for himself and accept the consequences of his decisions but this does seem to have left him in a position where his and our values are somewhat at odds with school's and this is a great part of his disaffection. Me being on his case makes no difference because it would be fake on my part and it is his business, not mine.

Family stuff is easier to solve than school stuff I think. Doing stuff together is better than having them do jobs on their own IME

MamieCole ~ I enjoy socialising with friends more than anything else too which is why my house is untidy. When I lived with my parents their house was always tidy but as an adult I don't feel that cleaning and tidying is more important than people.


----------



## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *robin4kids* 
F

Here is what i am thinking is the problem. You won't like it, but I have observed this kind of behavior with other kids as well. I think that we are giving our kids too many opportunities. When they want to try something we say, "sure" and shell out the money. When they tire of the activity we say o.k. There needs to be a clear expectation for all activities.

Robin

I think this is a big part of the problem.

When I was growing up I was quite poor - and my parents were what we would call "benignly neglectful". There were pros and cons to this.

Cons first: I was a bright kid (perhaps even "gifted") and highly motivated. No one went to bat for me and insisted on indivualised education (from which I would have bennefitted - I was soooo bored). There were lots of opportunites I should have been presented with but was not - not by my parents, school consellors...nada.

Pros: Anything I knew about and wanted, I made sure it happenned - even from a very young age. I remember making Halloween costumes for myself - my mom wasn't going to do it. I remember going to my neighbours house to pick up books to read - I wanted books, she had them, I arranged it. Later on I remember arranging lifts for myself into town. I wanted money - I got myself a job. I went to England when I was sixteen and booked my own airline ticket.....

As an adult I have tried to present my kids with many opportunities (probably because I had none) but I think I have made it too easy on them. I think you want things more if you have to work for them, yk?

__________________________

My 13 yr old is somewhat unmotivated (I am in a good mood today - sometimes I think he is very unmotivated







)

What has helped me is letting go of preconceived ideas: I think lots of teens have interests but we do not value them, so we do not focus on them. Yes, I would like it if my son were motivated to clean his room and pursue academics - but he is not. He does love anime and movies and gaming. He has a growing love for drama (theatre). I am focusing on meeting him where he is.

Kathy


----------



## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathymuggle* 

What has helped me is letting go of preconceived ideas: I think lots of teens have interests but we do not value them, so we do not focus on them.

Kathy









:


----------



## Juuulie (Apr 15, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Green Eyes* 

My advice:

Set up a "learning hour" for after they have had their snacks after school. We set a timer and daughter can do anything that contributes to learning (no listening to music during this time). This has worked REALLY well! She does any homework during that time, and doesn't rush through it since she has to use the entire hour. Days when she doesn't have homework, she can read, write, do science experiments, go over multiplication facts, anything that contributes to learning. I've even let her sew during this hour sometimes since that is constructive.

What a fabulous idea! I am SO going to try this over the summer!

We flat-out bribe my 13yo. He gets $100 for an all-A's report card. One A-minus, and he gets nothing. I think of it as a performance bonus, and it has worked amazingly well. Schoolwork has become a non-issue. He takes total responsibility and we just shell out the bucks!

This works well for me because, I must confess, I myself have a lot of emotional baggage around homework and grades. My parents were total helicopters who wanted to micromanage every detail of my life, especially schoolwork. As a result I never took responsibility for my work and I was already labelled an underachiever by the time I was in third grade.







Bribing Jay feels like a perfect Love & Logic-type solution that allows him to "own" his work and excel because HE wants to -- and it takes his parents right out of the equation.


----------



## ZoraP (Jun 11, 2009)

For all parents that feel their children are lazy and unmotivated, I suggest reading "The Myth of Laziness" and other books by the same author (whose name escapes me at the moment). It really opened my eyes to the "hidden handicaps" many of us have that keep us from reaching our full potential.


----------



## rhubarbarin (May 2, 2008)

I was a totally unmotivated kid (I was also very unhappy, but people didn't know) and teenager. I drove my mom absolutely nuts. I flunked out of high school.

It's a long story, but to make it short: I have developed into a happy, fulfilled adult who loves learning for the fun of it (and has a ton of hobbies), who has been supporting myself (and multiple pets) since 18, and I am financially responsible, debt free and in a healthy romantic relationship. I am not doing what my mom would like me to (getting college degrees leading to a career, driving a car, gearing up to buy a house), but I am doing just fine.

If your kids are like this they probably have some issues, but don't give up hope. Being a kid, especially a teenager, is tough for a lot of people. Most of us come out of it all right and go on to actually.. do stuff. Without our mom forcing us to.


----------



## MamieCole (Jun 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
MamieCole ~ I enjoy socialising with friends more than anything else too which is why my house is untidy. When I lived with my parents their house was always tidy but as an adult I don't feel that cleaning and tidying is more important than people.









I don't think cleaning and tidying is more important than people either, nor do I expect my daughter to feel that way.

What I said was that the ONLY thing my daughter enjoys is socializing with friends...to the point of neglecting ALL other responsibilities, including putting at least minimal effort into schoolwork.

Sitting back and only expecting her to do things that are fun may be the cool thing to do, but it isn't the responsible thing to do as a parent, IMHO.


----------



## hsmamato2 (Jun 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ssh* 
I think Ziggy didn't like praise. So she didn't mean praise more, she may have meant don't complain where they can hear you. I think a simple thank you can sometimes be better than praise.

I don't think 'praise' is appropriate...they're teens,and if you,the parent let them know that certain things are expected,then 'praising' them for doing necessary chores just undermines what you're trying to teach,i.e. being a responsible human being means taking care of responsibilities in the house,and helping the family together'-
Now, a word of thanks for getting a job done well or quickly,I will do. But not 'praise'. In fact,when the kids do something particularly well,or responsibly,I will later reward with 'extras' they didn't expect. Like getting candy or whatever they like while shopping later on....but for me,it's random,it's not promised,but it happens regularly,as a way for me to show my appreciation for their good attitudes and help.
And vice versa for bad attitudes/laziness. I don't owe them tons of nonstop fun,but they usually know(even 16 year old) that their own attitudes about life and responsibility directly affect their own enjoyment/privileges in life.
when you teach kids from day one that you EXPECT them to take responsibility for their own successes/failures,they learn pretty fast not to sabotage themselves.
(FWIW,I wouldn't have 'helped' with the science fair project, beyond me helping him to get the supplies needed for HIS ideas.)


----------



## hsmamato2 (Jun 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Juuulie* 
We flat-out bribe my 13yo. He gets $100 for an all-A's report card. One A-minus, and he gets nothing. Bribing Jay feels like a perfect Love & Logic-type solution that allows him to "own" his work and excel because HE wants to -- and it takes his parents right out of the equation.

I'm sorry ,I disagree..... when you stop bribing with a huge amount of money,*then* you take the parents out of the equation,and his work stands on it's own merits,or not. What happens when he graduates,and is instilled with the 'logic' of being paid to get a good grade/show up for work/be responsible for his own outcomes in life? No one is going to pay him to 'pay attention' when he's an adult.Unless you continue to pay him forever..... not intending disrespect to anyone,but I do disagree respectfully.


----------



## Megamum2008 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi, I just wanted to sympathize! My DSD is one of these as well... I just don't understand the total lack of motivation to do things well. She is so happy to put in the bare minimum effort in everything she does...
Anyhow, I tried to explain my situation in another post.
I just wanted to commiserate with the OP as I have similar issues.
Lots of great advice on this thread!


----------



## mamabeca (Oct 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hsmamato2* 
I'm sorry ,I disagree..... when you stop bribing with a huge amount of money,*then* you take the parents out of the equation,and his work stands on it's own merits,or not. What happens when he graduates,and is instilled with the 'logic' of being paid to get a good grade/show up for work/be responsible for his own outcomes in life? No one is going to pay him to 'pay attention' when he's an adult.Unless you continue to pay him forever..... not intending disrespect to anyone,but I do disagree respectfully.

And therein lies the rub. MANY mature, achieving, productive adults ARE paid bonuses for working harder than average, for hitting goals, for making their company more productive, richer, and better than others. So it's a perfectly socially normal way of helping their child feel motivated, if his own self-motivation is lacking. Unfortunate, perhaps, but true. They aren't saying get average grades and we'll pay ya, they're saying get WAY above average grades (remember, C is average), ALL of them WAY above average, and THEN we'll pay you. Seems fair, if you are ok w/bribing as a general rule. (and I am, when it comes to my dd, who is at LEAST as unmotivated as any of the other pre-teens/teens described here)

Although she's unmotivated with a bunch of stuff, and I am guilty as all hell of being as or more interested/committed than she is for some of her activities (school, music, language/religion, specifically). I know that she has the ability, it's a matter of motivation. So if she WANTS to stay in Scouts (which she loves) she HAS to practice Hebrew. If she WANTS to play Fall Softball, she HAS to practice guitar. That's it. Tit for tat. Bribery? I guess. She doesn't get allowance, and we do expect her to clean up around here (mostly her stuff, kid stuff in general, and occasional other light duties inc. dishes and vacuuming), but she doesn't want for anything either. Tonight I bought her a (cheap) watch - hers broke at camp. My dh accused me of spoiling her, but I said I want her to have the watch so that she can be somewhat responsible for the kids returning to camp or home at a certain time etc. It's a tool, and if she doesn't show the level of responsibility I need her to, she will lose the tool. (and if she isn't motivated, it won't hurt her feelings)

Some of this stuff is just maturation, and some kids do bloom late. And some don't bloom. I think that some kids *are* somehow chemically/genetically wired to "fail" and become burdensome on their families or society. I have seen it over and over in families - one kid out of three just can't pull it together (and often also has bad luck/timing). In a family w/only one kid, it might be harder to see. I don't know if any of that is genetic in an inheritable kind of way, but it absolutely is something that can't be changed in someone. I must say that there are things that might help a kid who is so privileged they can't even see where the other half live - get them into the other half. Send them on a teen volunteer adventure in Mexico - like Habitat for Humanity or Jr. Red Cross. Instead of earning cell phone money, let them wipe snot, build latrines, work HARD, make friends that will probably last their lifetime. The longer the better (a full summer vs. 2 weeks). The further the better. They _will_ feel independent, and they will also be look out for. I think when kids 'get' that OTHER people expect them to do their best, they start to really do their best! T'was the case for me, and seems to be so for my dd, as well, though I know it won't work for everyone.

Good luck, mamas!! I know how hard this is, and keeping my cool is the hardest part!


----------



## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamieCole* 
Add me to the list of "meanest mother in the world" with a totally unmotivated teenager.

I am at the end of my rope. My 15 year old DD has TWO responsibilties: get passing grades at school and keep her room clean. She doesn't do either and acts like the world is coming to an end and flips out with complete tamtrums when we ask about grades or remind her to clean her room. She is currently failing 3 classes. She does not keep her room clean, despite frequent reminders. The failing grades are new, her refusal to keep her room clean has been going on for YEARS. We've tried a million things. When she brought home 3 F's we took away her cell phone, her computer and her television, plus grounded her in the effort to make sure that her only focus was school. I've arranged for tutoring at school for the class she is failing due to lack of understanding (math.) And the other two classes she is failing because she refuses to study for tests and is missing a ton of assignments that she simply either didn't do or "forgot" to turn in. It's been 6 weeks since the intial failing report and she hasn't brought her grades up at all.

In regard to her room, we've gone so far as to take away all clothing left on the floor or not put where it belongs (closet or drawers). We collected basically her entire wardrobe over the period of
a couple of weeks. She was well aware that we would be taking anything left on the floor when she left for school. She didn't care until she was down to just a couple of shirts and one pair of pants. She "earned" back some clothing by keeping her room clean: One piece of clothing for each day her room was clean without us asking. Once she got back enough clothing to satisfy herself, she started leaving them on the floor again. So we started taking them again. She just. doesn't. care.

She doesn't enjoy anything except socializing with friends. She doesn't care about doing well, she just wants to put in the minimal effort to "get by." And now she isn't even doing that.

I am so sick of it.

Make eye contact with her. Tell her if she doesn't pick up her room by a certain time - you will take her cell phone. Then take it if the room isn't picked up.

When my 15 year old ds started slipping on the grades - he lost his cell phone. Now, his cell phone is his currency. You have to find the carrot to dangle. If I told him he could have the phone when he finished his homework - he would lie and say the homework was finished or that he never had homework. So the rule became that he couldn't have the cell phone until 8 pm. Then I took it back at 10 pm or he would text all night.

Thankfully - we are past this now. He acts responsibly. He knows that he has jobs and expectations and he has his phone all the time.

It is a work in progress. And the parent has to be willing to roll with the punches and make the hard choices.

One piece of advice that I can offer is not to engage them in long discussions or conversations about expectations. Say what you expect in simple short sentences (and always have a consequence) and then walk off.


----------



## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hsmamato2* 
I'm sorry ,I disagree..... when you stop bribing with a huge amount of money,*then* you take the parents out of the equation,and his work stands on it's own merits,or not. What happens when he graduates,and is instilled with the 'logic' of being paid to get a good grade/show up for work/be responsible for his own outcomes in life? No one is going to pay him to 'pay attention' when he's an adult.Unless you continue to pay him forever..... not intending disrespect to anyone,but I do disagree respectfully.


Sorry - I disagree with you!









Your 'job' (or hubbie or partner or whatever) is to work. You get paid for the work.

My kid's 'job' is school.


----------



## Juuulie (Apr 15, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamabeca* 
And therein lies the rub. MANY mature, achieving, productive adults ARE paid bonuses for working harder than average, for hitting goals, for making their company more productive, richer, and better than others. So it's a perfectly socially normal way of helping their child feel motivated, if his own self-motivation is lacking. Unfortunate, perhaps, but true. They aren't saying get average grades and we'll pay ya, they're saying get WAY above average grades (remember, C is average), ALL of them WAY above average, and THEN we'll pay you. Seems fair, if you are ok w/bribing as a general rule. (and I am, when it comes to my dd, who is at LEAST as unmotivated as any of the other pre-teens/teens described here).

Exactly! We think of it as a performance bonus. And I guess I should add a couple of points. First, I NEVER thought I'd bribe my kids. I never used behavior charts, I didn't use M&Ms for potty learning, or anything like that (until my youngest came along, but that's another story). And second, Jay is extremely bright and well-organized. The ONLY reason he wasn't getting good grades was because he was bored in school and didn't see why he should waste his time doing stupid busywork. Since we started doing this last fall, I don't think I _ever_ looked at his planner; I never told him to do his homework (let alone checked it); and I never reminded him to follow up with teachers if he was absent. Schoolwork became a complete non-issue, and frankly, I think that is totally worth $100 a semester.


----------



## Labbemama (May 23, 2008)

so is your plan to continue the performance incentive program this new school year?

My dd will be a junior, 11th grade. She did well in summer school despite some family setbacks. (that's a whole other thread or five.) But I think a lot of her problem is related to spiting her father. Since the separation I have seen a lot of improvement in her motivation, willingness to cooperate, and interest in things she enjoyed at one time. Hoping this school year turns the corner for her.

She has an AWESOME course schedule. and she found a math teacher who relates well to her and makes sense.

We had some other motivational problems with my son surrounding football.

all this battling with them has left me low energy for my own stuff to do.


----------

