# My friend discipling my child in front of me



## sora (Oct 7, 2006)

Hi,

I feel awful and embarrased by my friend discipling my child today. I know my daughter was annoying her son but I did not interven promptly. I feel that my friend was right to discipline my child but at the same time I felt so embarrased and humiliated and inadequate. Do you think if my friend has the right to discipline my daughter in my presence? This did not happen once but several times. So I am quite sensitive about it. And I kind of sense that she thinks that my daughter is a bully and trouble maker and I know she is trying to protect her son, which is very understandable. My daughter is a bit on the wild side while her son is quite.

Today there was a gathering. The kids were at the table. My daughter was very tired and hyper so she would not sit down at the table (She gets too hyper at a party)She would have a bite and run around. Her son is very disciplined so he would sit at the table eating. The boy's mom was next to him helping him. It was obvious that she was annoyed by my daughter. My daughter started crawling under the table. I did not realize quick enough but she was tickling her son's feet. And he was annoyed. I told her to stop and kept eating and chatting. And then my friend took her son and my daughter to another room. Then I realized that she tickled him again. My friend was explaining to my daughter that her behavior was annoying her son so she would have to stop and say sorry to him. My daughter started crying and said sorry. My daughter seemed embarrased and hurt by being told off by somebody other than her parents. I was embarrased too. I felt like a failure as a mom that I did not discipline my child enough to sit through a meal and allow her to annoy others.

I just want to share this story and hear what others have to say about this touchy situation. Did my friend do the right thing and am I just being too a small person to take criticism?


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## Dingletwitz (Nov 4, 2009)

Sounds like a great friend! She handled it very well. I'm sure you felt terrible and embarrassed, but these are the great learning moments in life! Part of her being this good friend is she's showing you the way, right? She's right with her kid guiding him... And yours probably needed your guidance in the moment also! It's hard taking kids to parties, isn't it? It turns into a field experience for the kiddo, and it's hard to get any adult time in. But, alas, all the coaching you put in today will ensure your ability to hold a conversation in the future. Your friend will see you in a truly positive light if you tell her about feeling bad about that moment. If you tell her it seems your dd needs a bit more attention from you at these types of things and you're so happy she was guiding your dd for you until you caught on.

The first time my dd pulled my friend's kid's hair (they were 1-ish) I was briefly paralyzed, and thank goodness my friend kicked in and just did a "gentle touch" thing with her. I felt like a total doof, and I let my friend know I appreciated it.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

That doesn't sound too harsh. I have been side tracked at a party and not noticed my dd doing something as have my friends with their kids. We all do this with each others children so it isn't something that I think is a big deal.


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## sofysmommy (Feb 15, 2005)

No help here. I just want to know what others think, since I am on the other side of the situation.My kids are very well behaved and I would just stop hanging around a kid that would make my children uncomfortable.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

mama are you sure you are not reading too much into it. yes your dd was surprised and shocked - but was it because it was another person other than parent?

why are you feeling like you failed as a mom? this really has nothing in a sense to do with your capabilities as a mom.

the thing is your friend is not a stranger to your child. she knows your child.

my close friends discipline my child all the time - when i have missed something or was elsewhere.

but in your case it seems a break from playdates might be a good idea for now. we did this with one friend. dd, very much like yours, with her activity was too much for my friends son. he was too sensitive to screaming and a lot of noise and was overwhelmed. so we decided to take a break. and we did. we moms hung out on rare ocassions. then my dd went thru the quiet phase and her son thru the 'unquiet' phase. after all that was over we were finally back to playing with each other.

this summer we did a lot of sleepovers. i had to parent quite a few of my friends kids since of course parents were not there. so its natural for our kids to see parents parent all children, their own and others. our kids are used to being disciplined by an adult, not necessarily their parent.


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## northcountrymamma (Feb 24, 2006)

remember mamma, it takes a village!

I think your friend did what any of my friends or myself would have done in the situation. And your dd probably was shocked and didn't know how to react if this was something she hadn't experienced before.

Our group of friends has all made it clear to one another that we don't mind if eachother discipline (for lack of a better word) the kids as long as it's within our parenting norms...(which thankfully are all similar). Ie. asking another child to stop doing something that is disturbing us or our children would be perfectly ok. For me, asking the child to say sorry might not be part of it...as I don't use that method, but they all know that. Perhaps you and your friends could talk about such situations before they arise so you all know eachothers comfort level.

There have been times where I have been so grateful that one of my friends has stepped in when I have been otherwise distracted with conversation, cooking etc...and all it took was a thanks and we all moved on.

As for your LO's reaction...perhaps if she was used to it occuring it wouldn't phase her...this is our experience.

HTH?


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## JBaxter (May 1, 2005)

I see no problem with it. I have noticed that sometimes my boys will respond to another person especially if they are tired or wound up.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Your friend sounds like she was quite nice and she did not "tell off" your daughter. This seems like a minor incident IMO and not something to feel like a failure over.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

I agree with the other posters. It sounds like your friend was very appropriate in how she handled it. Don't be so down on yourself--if you realized that you should have done something differently, learn from it and do it differently next time.

Perhaps your daughter's personality and behavior requires you to be more vigilant about where she is and what she's doing. That doesn't make you a bad mom. She is who she is and you just work with that reality.









I don't think there is anything wrong with close friends participating in gentle discipline when it's necessary, but if it really bothers you, you need to make sure you are the one who is aware of what your child is doing, and the one who is the first to step in when she is doing something that is unacceptable.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I don't think it's that big of a deal, and you are being too hard on yourself, and your friend. Now you know to watch out next time. You could bring it up and thank her for handling.
I don't think you should feel so bad ~ it wasn't like you sat there while your daughter hit, punch, or kicked. Now you know for next time.


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## swd12422 (Nov 9, 2007)

I agree w/ PPs. Not a big deal, and you know she's a really great friend for just dealing with it quietly, and not making a scene. My BFF has a very wild, spirited daughter who fights her on EVERYTHING. She is exhausted. The other day we were out way past naptime for both kids, and things were on their way downhill. Since I know her DD fights tooth and nail getting into the car seat, I carried her to the car and strapped her in. I did it so quickly and she was so shocked she just sat there. Anyone watching me would never believe the stories of how this child fights getting in the car. It was nothing. My friend asked what I was doing and I just said, "I had her anyway, I figured I'd save you a step." I just wanted to see if her DD would fight me, too, and she didn't. (Maybe if I do that more frequently, she will, but at least in this situation I was able to help avoid a fight no one wanted.)

My point is that even kids who are frequently out of control (not saying your daughter is, just using my friend's DD as an example -- your DD sounds like she was just having a good time) will stop and listen to someone who's not their parent. Don't feel bad. Your friend was doing what she felt she needed to do to keep her son content, and she did it without publicly humiliating anyone.


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## Tway (Jul 1, 2010)

My best friend has a 4-year-old and a newborn, and she's always been of the philosophy of it takes a village to raise a child". She fully expects people to stop her toddler if he does something wrong, and expects her toddler to listen. I've always liked that idea.

Many people would have just walked away or gave a dirty look, but your friend took the time to talk and teach. That takes effort--and it shows she respects and cares for you and your LO. Plus our kids will all do something they shouldn't--they're kids!


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

thank her. Seriously. My friends & I all disciplined each other kids when we were together. We don't always see everything & sometimes someone else will & can take care of it. Sometimes if a parent does see something but seems overwhelmed or busy at the moment to deal with it someone else can deal with it.

Take it as a learning experience, that's essentially what parenting is. 1 big long, exhausting learning experience.lol

You mentioned this happened several times so look back at what you could have done differently.

Your dd running around nothing wrong with that, as long as she wasn't getting into people's way or being quite loud in an indoor place.

Crawling under the table while people are eating, depending on how big this table is may or may not be okay.

You noticed she was tickling his feet & didn't like it. You told her to stop & kept on your way. Does she normally stop when you tell her to? If not then yeah you could have done more, so now you know next time you do more.

I don't know what the other incidents were that happened where your friend had to keep disciplining her. I would talk to your friend to make sure she doesn't feel like you were expecting her to take care of your dd while you got to sit & visit(not saying you were expecting her to, but some people would take it like that). My aunt used to be horrible for that, everywhere she went she expected everyone else(including us cousins who were roughly 11-16) to take care of her kids while she sat around & did nothing. She could visit & eat without interruption becuase she expected everyone else to feed her kids, make sure they weren't getting in trouble(they were hellions), etc. however if someone did get after her kids for something she'd be all over the person trying to discipline them whether she was in the vicinity & had a clue or not. They're adults now & 2/3 of them are lazy, living with their Dad, no job, no career, everything paid for them, no reason to do anything if everyone will do it for them(pretty much the same as their mom).


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

I would be fine with a friend correcting my child, but not with taking them out the room without me, or with telling my child to say sorry.

In your friend's shoes, I would have asked your dd to stop, then if she did not, I would have fetched you and asked you to handle it. That is what I would want a friend to do for me.

But then, my kids are highly sensitive and being taken to another room for a chat by another person would be hugely upsetting for them. Whenever I talk with another child about any behavior, if the parent is there, I always do it in their presence, or if I can, ask them to handle it.

But if you and your friend are comfortable with removing children like that, and asking for apologies, that changes the situation, and only you can judge if it is appropriate.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

Do you think if my friend has the right to discipline my daughter in my presence?
Yes, if you're not doing it.

I'm comfortable with other adults correcting my children as long as they are gentle with them about it.


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum* 
I would be fine with a friend correcting my child, but not with taking them out the room without me, or with telling my child to say sorry.

In your friend's shoes, I would have asked your dd to stop, then if she did not, I would have fetched you and asked you to handle it. That is what I would want a friend to do for me.

But then, my kids are highly sensitive and being taken to another room for a chat by another person would be hugely upsetting for them. Whenever I talk with another child about any behavior, if the parent is there, I always do it in their presence, or if I can, ask them to handle it.

But if you and your friend are comfortable with removing children like that, and asking for apologies, that changes the situation, and only you can judge if it is appropriate.









ita

i would be absolutely*fine with another mama asking my child to stop doing something, but would want them to speak to me about handling it.

just seems like common courtesy.

all it would have took was, "please stop tickling him" and then to come to you and say, "can you talk to your dd, she is really upsetting me, my kid, etc etc"

i find people tend to be more uncomfortable taking an issue to an adult. like they feel in more of a power position with children? i dont know.

I prefer to be the one speaking to my*child about this stuff.

i understand it takes a village- but in true villages, there is more cohesive parenting practices- and even amongst AP groups- i have seen a vast difference in treatment of conflict.


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
Yes, if you're not doing it.

I'm comfortable with other adults correcting my children as long as they are gentle with them about it.

i always wonder why people want to correct other children.

i, personally, never want to. it feels like shaming to me. if a child is bothering me, I remove myself or do the bare minimum.

in m¥ experience, most children overreact when a nonparent disciplines them. it always seems harsher coming from another person than they are used to.

my children get embarrassed/scared easily and have definitely been upset/traumatized before. In every situation I was right there. either I didnt notice the infraction or I was unaware that it was bothering/upsetting anyone.

it seems that it would always be in the best interest to just alert the parent first? i would think disciplining another child would be a last resort type thing.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:

all it would have took was, "please stop tickling him" and then to come to you and say, "can you talk to your dd, she is really upsetting me, my kid, etc etc"
it sounded to me like the OP was sitting right there, close enough to see her dd was tickling this kid's feet. The OP did ask her dd to stop.

Quote:

I would be fine with a friend correcting my child, but not with taking them out the room without me, or with telling my child to say sorry.
I can see taking her dd out of the room to deal with it in private. Not for privacy away from Mom, but away from the entire group of people there.


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
it sounded to me like the OP was sitting right there, close enough to see her dd was tickling this kid's feet. The OP did ask her dd to stop.



i thought the OP said she also asked her dd to stop when she saw it happening under the table?

when it happened again, she could just have asked her to stop again OR said to the mom "you really need to do something. its really upsetting my child/me"

im not understanding why its a "i must deal with this myself" issue.

if the mom is right there- she either didnt see it or didnt think it was a big deal, right? i feel like people would rather discipline the child themselves than say "I need you to control/intervene/do something else with your child/act in a more authoritative way to keep your child from upsetting my child" to an adult.


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## ~Em~ (Oct 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Latte Mama* 
Your friend sounds like she was quite nice and she did not "tell off" your daughter. This seems like a minor incident IMO and not something to feel like a failure over.

Yep, this. No biggie.


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## ladymeag (Aug 11, 2005)

It sounds like your friend was gentle. However, I agree with the following:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum* 
I would be fine with a friend correcting my child, but not with taking them out the room without me, or with telling my child to say sorry.

In your friend's shoes, I would have asked your dd to stop, then if she did not, I would have fetched you and asked you to handle it. That is what I would want a friend to do for me.

But then, my kids are highly sensitive and being taken to another room for a chat by another person would be hugely upsetting for them. Whenever I talk with another child about any behavior, if the parent is there, I always do it in their presence, or if I can, ask them to handle it.

But if you and your friend are comfortable with removing children like that, and asking for apologies, that changes the situation, and only you can judge if it is appropriate.









I would be most upset if someone took my kid to another room to "discipline" them in their preferred method and have them say sorry. I'm a big believer in not forcing kids to say things they don't feel.* I don't want to have to explain to each of my friends that feels sufficiently "close" to me to take matters into their own hands how we handle each little thing like this. I'm not going to consult them for each parenting practice I chose and don't want to get into it with them why we have decided to raise our kids the way we have. I've already gotten into some uncomfortable conversations with other parents about sharing (I don't think kids should be forced to share personal toys; sharing playgrounds/public toys is appropriate) and it's not even that big a deal. It also undermines the authority of the parent - it wasn't good enough for Mom to tell you no, Suzy had to do for it to stick.

*In this situation, I would have explained to my daughter that tickling Johnny's feet really upset him. How do you feel when someone does things to you that you don't like? Can you understand how Johnny was feeling? Do you have anything you'd like to say to Johnny? Prompting for a true statement of feeling is one thing, forcing "Sorry" just makes it a meaningless platitude shoved out of one's mouth to stop the confrontation. This method worked incredibly well with my birthdaughter - she will say she's sorry when she genuinely is and will say "I'm sorry I upset you" when that's what she means and will say "I'm sorry you're upset" when that's what she means - and she's seven.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
it sounded to me like the OP was sitting right there, close enough to see her dd was tickling this kid's feet. The OP did ask her dd to stop.

I can see taking her dd out of the room to deal with it in private. Not for privacy away from Mom, but away from the entire group of people there.

This is exactly why she should have let the mom (OP) keep handling it. Redirecting Mom's attention to the daughter's behavior would have been far more appropriate. Mom is _right there_ - she can handle her daughter's behavior in the way that is appropriate for her.

We know people who have children that they don't discipline, pretty much at all, and we limit our time with those people. If their children's behavior is too much for us to handle, we will remove ourselves, perhaps explaining to the host that we just aren't comfortable. I get to decide who is in my parenting "village" - not you. I try to extend that to others; they have not placed me in a parenting role for their children and I will not place myself there.


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tallulahma* 
i thought the OP said she also asked her dd to stop when she saw it happening under the table?

when it happened again, she could just have asked her to stop again OR said to the mom "you really need to do something. its really upsetting my child/me"

im not understanding why its a "i must deal with this myself" issue.

if the mom is right there- she either didnt see it or didnt think it was a big deal, right? i feel like people would rather discipline the child themselves than say "I need you to control/intervene/do something else with your child/act in a more authoritative way to keep your child from upsetting my child" to an adult.

The op was right there. And didn't do anything.

The friend took care of it herself because there was not time to wait on the op. Obviously the op wasn't concerned or willing to do anything. For whatever reason. The friend got sick of it and handled it.

I'm not sure of the age of the child (nevermind, it doesn't matter) - but crawling around under the table while people are eating is unacceptable at any age. And then to actually disturb another person _by tickling their feet!?_ Not cool and needed to be stopped immediately.

OP - don't sweat it. Mothering is a work in progress. And every mother should realize that. The fact that you came here to work this out in your head shows how willing you are to be versatile. You're doing great!!!!


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

wow! I'm surprised-- I think the mother mom owed you a heads up. "Oh, your kiddo is ticking my son and it's bugging him".

I guess I wouldn't mind if it was someone very close to me and my son; my sister, for example. But I'm suprised just a 'friend' would think it's ok to take another mom's kid into the room to scold her.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

I just re-read your post and it you mentioned that htis has happened several times.

Not ok at all in my book. I would put your foot down.

discipline should be dealt out by someone with the child intersests at heart. Not a 'friend' who is making your kid out to be a bully.


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## MissMaegie'sMama (Jul 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora* 
My daughter seemed embarrased and hurt by being told off by somebody other than her parents.


When I was about four years old, my parents took me to a cookout/get-together at the home of some good friends of theirs. The three-year-old son of another of their friends was also at the party, so I played with him that day (he was a frequent playdate playmate of mine). I was being bossy with my friend, but not aggressive or rough. Apparently his dad didn't approve of my behavior. In front of a large group of adults, this man-- my mom's best friend's husband-- told me to leave his son alone, and if I didn't, he would spank me. I was humiliated. I looked at my dad, who was sitting next to my friend's dad. My dad looked shocked, but he didn't say a word to his friend. I ran into the house to find my mom. Five minutes later we were in the car on our way home, and I was bawling. My dad admonished himself for not confronting his friend. That was cold comfort!

This happened almost thirty years ago, yet I still remember how horrible and embarassed I felt being disciplined by an adult who was not my parent (actually, I think this man's behavior wasn't so much discipline as it was threatening and abusive, but I digress).

IMO, _nobody_ has a right to discipline another person's child, unless a dangerous situation exists. This was obviously not the case in the OP's situation. OP, I think your friend may have meant well, but she should have pulled _you_ aside to discuss your daughter's behavior.

Since more than once your friend has taken it upon herself to discipline your daughter, I would suggest re-thinking keeping her as a playdate friend. Seriously, your daughter's self-esteem is more important than remaining friends with someone who seems to have trouble seeing where the discipline line is drawn.


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissMaegie'sMama* 
When I was about four years old, my parents took me to a cookout/get-together at the home of some good friends of theirs. The three-year-old son of another of their friends was also at the party, so I played with him that day (he was a frequent playdate playmate of mine). I was being bossy with my friend, but not aggressive or rough. Apparently his dad didn't approve of my behavior. In front of a large group of adults, this man-- my mom's best friend's husband-- told me to leave his son alone, and if I didn't, he would spank me. I was humiliated. I looked at my dad, who was sitting next to my friend's dad. My dad looked shocked, but he didn't say a word to his friend. I ran into the house to find my mom. Five minutes later we were in the car on our way home, and I was bawling. My dad admonished himself for not confronting his friend. That was cold comfort!

This happened almost thirty years ago, yet I still remember how horrible and embarassed I felt being disciplined by an adult who was not my parent (actually, I think this man's behavior wasn't so much discipline as it was threatening and abusive, but I digress).

IMO, _nobody_ has a right to discipline another person's child, unless a dangerous situation exists. This was obviously not the case in the OP's situation. OP, I think your friend may have meant well, but she should have pulled _you_ aside to discuss your daughter's behavior.

Since more than once your friend has taken it upon herself to discipline your daughter, I would suggest re-thinking keeping her as a playdate friend. Seriously, your daughter's self-esteem is more important than remaining friends with someone who seems to have trouble seeing where the discipline line is drawn.

this is exactly why its best to take your issues up with the adults, not the child. when children are not used to being spoken to/disciplined by others- it can be hard on them.

JUST BECAUSE THE MOME WAS THERE doesnt mean she knew it was as upsetting as it was.

she deserved a heads up. "please keep your dd from doing this- its upsetting me"

why is disciplining the child more acceptable than that? in ANY circumstance?

keep your kid safe, then alert the adult to the behaviour you need changed.

a lot less drama that way. and sensitive kids dont end up crying over a mom not understanding the severity of a situation.

and ive been to many kids parties where kids crawling under tables is quite common... so its not even something that would catch my attention.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
Yes, if you're not doing it.

I'm comfortable with other adults correcting my children as long as they are gentle with them about it.

I agree. It is absolutely the parent's right and responsibility to intervene if their child is causing a problem for someone else. But if they aren't there or choose not to, then another adult should be able to (hopefully gently) stop the action.

If Child A is tickling Child B - and B doesn't like it, then it stops. Now. Period. If A's parent is there then he/she should stop it, but if he/she isn't there or doesn't consider it a problem then B's parent or any other adult can stop it. Discipline regarding the issue is still left up to parent A - but anyone can stop the action.

This is a more common problem with firstborns - as it seems that moms mellow more with subsequent children. You either get on the same page with what is acceptable (among the adults whose kids your kid spends time with) or stop hanging out together.

When my dd1 was a toddler, a friend's child was too rough with her - and that mom didn't find it a problem. My kid and I found it a problem. That mom wouldn't stop her kid, so we stopped hanging out with each other until that kid matured enough to play nice.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I think your friend had every right to tell your dd that the tickling bothered her son, and ask your dd to stop. I'm huge on kids respecting others' personal boundaries.

I'm on the fence about taking her to another room, and even less sure about telling her to apologize. It sounds like she was nice and GD about it, but still.

Gently, I do think you should have asked her if what your dd was doing was bothering her son, and acted accordingly. Take it as a learning experience


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

I do not understand how a situation goes from an adult and child getting annoyed by tickling into a child being taken into another room and made to cry.

Let's just call it what it is- passive aggressive.

It's totally "I don't think you are disciplining your child appropriately, and instead of approaching you and risk confrontation, I'm going to approach your kid that I feel an instrinsic power over and show you how it SHOULD be done!"


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I think it was reasonable of her to intervene to make sure your ds stopped tickling her ds, but I don't like that she took your ds into another room. I don't like the forced apology thing either, but that seems to be standard fare and I'd expect it in that situation. I find the taking your child into another room to be a real problem, though. I don't see why she couldn't say something right there.


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## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

I'm confused, what was the reason for the other mom taking your kid to the other room. Was it expressly for the purpose of discipline or was it just sometime after the initial tickling issue, so that the kids could play together. As I was reading the OP I assumed it was the latter. I figure that she took the OP's dd with her son to the other room to play to give the OP a chance to talk with the other adults and that is when another incident occurred.

If that's the case than for me I'd be totally fine with it. My friends can totally be a voice for their own kids and tell my child to stop a behavior that is hurting/bothering them (to me tickling is as bad as hitting or other aggressive behaviors because of the feelings of powerlessness it gives the victim). I have two kids so there are often times when we're in group situations where I'm following my baby around and my 3.5yo has a bit more freedom, so if I'm not dealing with a situation like this I hope a friend would do so in a manner similar to how I would handle it or at least as gentle as they would want their own child treated. I agree though about not wanting my child to be forced to apologize and it might be worth saying to her that you appreciate that she was there to help guide your child when you weren't there but that you don't believe in forcing a child to apologize and would appreciate her honoring that. I always make sure though to apologize on my child's behalf if she doesn't do it herself. something like, "jack, I'm so sorry that juliette tickled your feet after you asked her not too, I'm going to try my best to make sure it doesn't happen again"

On the other hand if she totally went off on your kid, raised her voice, used demeaning words (like calling her naughty or telling her she's a bad girl) then I would tell her that she may ask dd to stop a behavior only if it is dangerous or physically bothering her or her child, but to leave all other discipline to me.


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## just_lily (Feb 29, 2008)

The details here seem to be a little ambiguous. I will say that if the situation bothered you enough to be posting on a message board about it, you need to speak to your friend.

I have absolutely zero problem with other adults verbally correcting my child in gentle way. I actually think it is great if we are at a friend's house and she is asked to not stand on the furniture, or is asked to give back a toy she snatched. I want her to grow up knowing that the behaviour I expect from her is not just a bunch of rules I made up, but is instead the basis of a polite, respectful and caring society.

I definitely draw the line at another adult punishing her though. That is way out of place. If I was around another child that didn't something so agregious I felt that discipline was in order instead of just a polite request to change their behaviour, I would send them to go speak to their parents.

And from the other side of this, it can be extremely frustrating when another child is bothering yours and the parent isn't doing anything about it. There was a boy who attended one of our playgroups last year who was about 3yo at the time. My DD was just over 1... about 16 months or so. He preyed on her. He would snatch toys from her, hit her, and once knocked her hard to the floor and layed on top of her so she couldn't get up. His mom didn't do a thing. It was so bad that I used to have to closely shadow my DD and try to redirect this boy whenever he came at her, all while the other mom shot me dirty looks. Eventually they stopped coming, and the mom told one of the other group members that she was tired of people telling her kid what to do. I wasn't the only one having to ask this kid to behave all the time, and definitely wasn't the only one who breathed a sigh of relief when they stopped coming.


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## MountainMamaGC (Jun 23, 2008)

I would have thanked the mom for taking care of it when I did not notice. I would have said "She gets a little hyper at these things and I am sorry, but thank you."


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

people keep focusing on them going to another room. In the original post it sounds like the kids were in another room for an other reason..but even if they weren't would it have been better for this mom to call tell girl publicly "hey stop bothering him!" That would have been unnecessarily humiliating IMHO.

I love when my friends handle things directly with my children. I am not always going to be there or clued in when I am there and my kids need to learn to handle social situations by themselves and work out relationships with people between the two of them. My friends don't need my permission to exert their boundaries or their child's. And regardless of what one thinks about "say you are sorry" I think she and her son had the right to request it. And yes, your dd was upset. my kids would have been too. and I remember several instances as a small child where I was corrected by adults other than my mom. I was embarrassed every time and I should have been. And while I was not permanently scarred those instances left their mark. I never made those mistakes again because for some reason having a stranger correct me meant way more than having my mom do it.

But any time my kid is annoying someone they have a right to ask them to stop. and if my child refuses to listen and I fail to clue in, they have a right to enforce boundaries in anyway they need to. Its very good your friend stepped in. If your dd had been irritating my dd like that, my kid would have likely just starting wildly kicking her feet and screaming. Things deteriorate kinda quickly with overstimulated small children. She may have thought things needed her intervention right then before things broke down even more.


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

You seriously think that embarrassing and shaming a kid is deserved and appropriate way for them to learn social boundaries?

You think a kid "should be" embarrassed by someone for being unintentionally annoying?!

I would never be friends with someone that would rather shame my kidthan have a frank discussion with me. Its so offensive. And yet people really believe it's appropriate.


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

And I'd rather my child get kicked by an overstimulated little kid than talked down to by an adult.

It's developmentally appropriate for the child to lash out- it's stunted social skills for an adult to not be able to say "hey, your kid is really pushing my kids limits here"


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora* 
Hi,

I feel awful and embarrased by my friend discipling my child today. *I know my daughter was annoying her son but I did not interven promptly*. I feel that my friend was right to discipline my child but at the same time I felt so embarrased and humiliated and inadequate. Do you think if my friend has the right to discipline my daughter in my presence? This did not happen once but several times. So I am quite sensitive about it. And I kind of sense that she thinks that my daughter is a bully and trouble maker and I know she is trying to protect her son, which is very understandable. My daughter is a bit on the wild side while her son is quite.

Today there was a gathering. The kids were at the table. My daughter was very tired and hyper so she would not sit down at the table (She gets too hyper at a party)She would have a bite and run around. Her son is very disciplined so he would sit at the table eating. The boy's mom was next to him helping him. *It was obvious that she was annoyed by my daughter.* My daughter started crawling under the table. I did not realize quick enough but she was tickling her son's feet. And he was annoyed. *I told her to stop and kept eating and chatting.* And then my friend took her son and my daughter to another room. Then I realized that she tickled him again. My friend was explaining to my daughter that her behavior was annoying her son so she would have to stop and say sorry to him. My daughter started crying and said sorry. My daughter seemed embarrased and hurt by being told off by somebody other than her parents. I was embarrased too. I felt like a failure as a mom that _I did not discipline my child enough to sit through a meal and allow her to annoy others._

i bolded what i think are the important aspects of this interaction.

1- you knew your dd was annoying your friend because it was obvious
2- you told your dd to stop but then kept eating and chatting

here's my question, what did you do to _make sure_ that she stopped?

if the answer is nothing, after you knew it was a problem, then yes, i think your friend was right to handle the situation since you were not doing anything about it. if you did make sure that your dd stopped and _then_ your friend did her thing, then no, she was not in the right.

it doesn't mean that you have to make your dd sit at the table and eat, but i do think you are responsible for making sure that your dd doesn't make the experience annoying for anyone else. obviously your dd doesn't know how to do that for herself right now so she needs your guidance to figure it out.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

I think there are multiple layers to this dilemma. First, is how she handled it the way you would have handled it had you not been distracted in conversation? Meaning, had you reacted quicker, would you have disciplined the same way? If my friends are aware of my discipline style and use it when interacting with my kids, I'm ok with that. You didn't mention whether it was just the act of disciplining that caught you off guard or if it was the method used. That would make a big difference to me. If a friend did something discipline wise that was a method we were not comfortable with I would be a bit more annoyed. But following our methods I would thank the friend for catching it and make a point to intervene wih my child quicker.

As far as leaving the room, it could be read two different ways... left the room to discipline or was already out of the room when the incident happened. Either way, I think talking to a child out of the room is actually more respectful of the child. Whether the parent or friend did it in the room it's going to embarrass the child more, leaving to a more private spot helps a bit. I don't think telling a child that the action is not ok is shaming if its done the right way.

Sometimes in situations like these children listen to others better than their own parents. My instinct would be that she cried because she was just shocked that the friend said anything, not that she was being mean about it. If you feel weird about it just talk to your friend, but I'd identify what part of it made you feel weird to start with first.


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

I think it depends an awful lot on what your relationship with your friend is like, how close she is to you and your family. When I read the OP I imagined myself and my best friend in that same situation, and it didn't seem like what she did was a big deal at all. Our families are very close, very much like family. We are best friends and our oldest children are best friends too. She disciplines my dd and I discipline her ds on occasion and it is completely and totally not a big deal. We parent very similarly and are on the same wavelength regarding GD. So, in the OPs case, if she and her friend are very close, and her friend is close and well-known to her dd, and they are on the same page about discipline, then I don't think that what she did was at all out of line. But if they are not terribly close, if the dd doesn't know the friend all that well, or if they don't share similar parenting values then it might be a different story. That said, it doesn't sound (from the small picture we've been given) that the friend had any kind of malicious or shaming intent. I think her ds was being repeatedly annoyed by the OP's dd and the OP wasn't doing enough to stop the behaviour and so she stepped in with (what I assume she intended as) gentle discipline. Simple as that. I don't see it as a play to make the OP feel inadequate etc, and I don't see it as overbearing/shaming/trying to make the little girl feel horrible. (Though of course I wasn't there!).


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

one of my dearest friends has a little guy who is a handful. She is pretty wired about him because he can also hit and be aggressive and my guys aren't. However we also both discipline each others children if the other one of us cannot deal with the child at the moment. She is my friend, she loves my kids and I trust her to not hurt them. She knows my style and I know hers, so we keep within those.

That said, your little one kept on doing something that was annoying her child and I would definitely gently explain like your friend were it my child being annoyed. I am my child's advocate and if other parent isn't going to step in after its pretty obvious the behaviour is not being well received, I am. What your friend did was gentle and appropriate, from my reading it doesn't seem like she took your kid in another room to discipline, but the behaviour happened again in that other room.

I think if you don't want other people disciplining your child, you're going to have to actively make sure your requests stick, which means your social time at these gatherings might be seriously limited for a while.


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## WifeMomChiro (Jul 28, 2010)

I have disciplined/redirected my friends kids before and I'll probably do it again. I generally only do it when I feel that my friend has reached their limit and seem to need some help. I've only ever been met with appreciation. Of course, I always handle things gently and with respect. I'm sure the tone of voice can change the reaction quite a bit.

On the other side of the coin, I have a very sensitive child and she would probably be upset if someone discipline her. I handle any discipline with her very gently and I'm not sure that everyone would understand that about her.

If you are really upset about it, I would talk to your friend. I wouldn't want to lose a friend over something like that.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tallulahma* 
i thought the OP said she also asked her dd to stop when she saw it happening under the table?

when it happened again, she could just have asked her to stop again OR said to the mom "you really need to do something. its really upsetting my child/me"

im not understanding why its a "i must deal with this myself" issue.

if the mom is right there- she either didnt see it or didnt think it was a big deal, right? i feel like people would rather discipline the child themselves than say "I need you to control/intervene/do something else with your child/act in a more authoritative way to keep your child from upsetting my child" to an adult.

IMO the mom didn't handle it the first time when she asked her dd to stop & then continued to eat/visit. She didn't make sure her dd listened. According to the OP this happened several times this day so obviously she was not getting through to her dd. She didn't elaborate on whether this was the first time this day or the 5th time this day. The OP saw her friend & her son were upset when her dd tickled her son's feet the first time. She should have done more THEN but didn't.

Quote:

Redirecting Mom's attention to the daughter's behavior would have been far more appropriate. Mom is _right there_ - she can handle her daughter's behavior in the way that is appropriate for her.
yeah she can, but she WASN'T. She was ignoring her dd.

Quote:

I'm not sure of the age of the child (nevermind, it doesn't matter)
Her dd is 4 and I think it does matter. When I first read this post I was figuring 2yo's, until I realized that her dd is 4 & is old enough to know better.

Quote:

As far as leaving the room, it could be read two different ways... left the room to discipline or was already out of the room when the incident happened. Either way, I think talking to a child out of the room is actually more respectful of the child. Whether the parent or friend did it in the room it's going to embarrass the child more, leaving to a more private spot helps a bit. I don't think telling a child that the action is not ok is shaming if its done the right way.
I agree. For all we know this friend knows this girl very well & the girl could have reacted very badly if she had said anything to her in front of a group of people.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tallulahma* 
You seriously think that embarrassing and shaming a kid is deserved and appropriate way for them to learn social boundaries?

You think a kid "should be" embarrassed by someone for being unintentionally annoying?!

I would never be friends with someone that would rather shame my kidthan have a frank discussion with me. Its so offensive. And yet people really believe it's appropriate.

I said I was embarrassed and should have been in those instances. I knew better but was choosing to disregard the well being and/or boundaries of others.

I really don't see where the friends mom did anything to intentionally embarrass or shame the child. She instead took the children aside, away from the eyes of everyone, exerted boundaries and helped the friends make peace. I don't think there is anything wrong with being firm with your own personal boundaries (or your childs if you child is not ready to stand up for themselves). And I would much rather my friend gently but firmly tell my child "hey Ava, you are annoying/irritating/hurting your friend when you do xyz. You need to stop doing XYZ right now. We keep asking you to stop and you need to respect that" than letting her kid (justifiably) freak out on mine (which could result in injury and more than hurt feelings) or writing my child off as "that kid" and me as "that mom" and walking away.

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my post. I do not see where the friends mom intentionally was shaming or embarrassing the little girl. We are all embarrassed by our behavior every now and then and often it is justifiable. We do things we know we shouldn't and then we regret. We are embarrassed when we get called on it. It is a valid emotion and we are responsible for it. Not the other person.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

i would imagine that if your friend is comfortable in disciplining your child repeatedly then you have already set up some relationship regarding that.

i would imagine that if my friend disciplined my dd that there already existed a basic relationship of trust between all of us.

i would not dream that ANY of my friends would ever use shaming or embarrasement to discipline my dd. i would hope i made wiser choices of who my friends are.

dd is older now. and some of my single friends have decided how dd should be disciplined - in other words they disagree with how i do it. and they step in. however NEVER in the shaming or embarrassed way. dd and i may not like what they say, but both dd and i have an understanding its coz in many cases they dont have the practical knowledge, the experience. instead it lets us know what's bugging them.


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

I think it's interesting how it keeps gettingbrought up that certain people and their children have arrangements where they are comfortable intervening with the children and letting others intervene with their kids.

I have situations like that too.

But in THIS instance it seems clear that OP did NOT have that kind of situation set up.

1. She noticed the annoyance, said something to her child and got distracted with chatting.

2. She then noticed them in the other room, where she assumes it happened again because her friend is disciplining her child.

3. Her child is crying. Which I take as a clear sign that the child was NOT comfortable with the woman disciplining her.

Yes, the OP should have gotten more involved when she notices her friend was annoyed. But as I read it, she dint notice it continue on in the other room.

Considering the OP an her dd seemed to not have a prearranged/previous leek of comfort AND given that the mother was right there in the next room, WHY...WHY would it not have been MORE appropriate to pick up the child, come over to the mother and just say,"hey, I don't know if you are aware, but your dd is Really upsetting my ds, can you maybe talk to her?"

Why isn't that better? Why is it more acceptable to take matters into your own hands and end up with a cryin kid who may not even understand why this adult is so upset?

My own 5 yr old has very little impulse control & I PERSONALLY try to stay on top of that. We had an issuewhere she pushed buttons and I didn't realize it until it was too late. She got yelled at by someone she was close to, but that had never yelled/gotten upset with her before and she WAS traumatized. Pretty badly.

She started wetting her pants when she heard sudden loud voices and crying in her sleep. She went from being really outgoing to unbelievably shy and withdrawn.

So I'm speaking from that angle. SOMETIMES I think kids are unusually sensitive and can be affected far more than you would imagine.

So if you are upset with a child, who is probably acting within THEIR patents limits, approach THE PARENT. Because the parent is the one teaching their child how to socialize. The child has little control over how they are raised.

Maybe I'm projecting, but it's been almost three months and we are **** dealing with issues. Is my child exceptionally sensitive? Yes. But who knows how damaging words from outside our Childs trusted circle can be...


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

And I think the "she's old enough to know better" I a lame excuse for intervening yourself- if she is technically old enough to know better and she doesn't know better- it's probably because she wasn't taught and thats not HER problem.

It's the moms. So approaching the mom is probably more important that trying to teach a kid a life lesson when you are annoyed withthe kid already and trying to protect your child.

Nak. Typos galore. Sry


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

the situation is where there are opposite personalities happening. repeatedly. not just once. i hope her dd wasnt crying every single time.

its time to seperate the children. to have different playgroups. to take a break.

sometimes children react in ways that surprise us. did op's dd cry every single time? or did she this last time? perhaps the mother is used to disciplining OPs dd and might have been mortified when OPs dd reacted that way for the first time.

asking a child to say sorry, while you may not agree with - is a common practice amongst most families.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

I don't think a 4 yo crying is a neccessary indicator that the adult in question was doing something evil.







Children do not take correction well--even gentle, reasonable correction.

I don't see any reason to be _outraged_ over this. Some changes need to be made, for sure. Starting with mama being more vigilant. But I think outrage is out of proportion to the situation as described.


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

Never said the mom was evil... Not understanding the sarcasm.

I was just saying that some parents do try to raise their children in a way that doesn't involve tears. Tears would show me that my dd was uncomfortable. Because my dd doesn't usually cry when she feels safe and loved...

I'm not seeing OUTRAGE either... I've seen some posters, including myself, note that they would prefer a heads up that their interventions are insufficient in their eyes.

I don't know why there is so much opposition to giving the mom a heads up?


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Quote:

I don't know why there is so much opposition to giving the mom a heads up?
Um, no opposition.

What happened, happened. IMO, what happened wasn't wrong. Might have been more comfortable for all if it had been managed differently, or might not.

The OP knew what was going on with her daughter and had the opportunity to do something about it, but didn't take it.


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## VroomieMama (Oct 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PlayaMama* 
i bolded what i think are the important aspects of this interaction.

1- you knew your dd was annoying your friend because it was obvious
2- you told your dd to stop but then kept eating and chatting

here's my question, what did you do to _make sure_ that she stopped?

if the answer is nothing, after you knew it was a problem, then yes, i think your friend was right to handle the situation since you were not doing anything about it. if you did make sure that your dd stopped and _then_ your friend did her thing, then no, she was not in the right.

it doesn't mean that you have to make your dd sit at the table and eat, but i do think you are responsible for making sure that your dd doesn't make the experience annoying for anyone else. obviously your dd doesn't know how to do that for herself right now so she needs your guidance to figure it out.











I remember my friend going through similar experience you went through and she told me after the party that she felt embarrassed that others were disciplining her child. She told me that in future she'll be "one step ahead" next time and would intervene first before others did. Then at the next event, she did intervene first every time and one of the mothers there gave her compliment because she was trying to give her a hint that she wanted her (my friend) to do something about it.

Maybe that's what your friend is trying to do---giving you a hint to step in?


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## ladymeag (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 
the situation is where there are opposite personalities happening. repeatedly. not just once. i hope her dd wasnt crying every single time.

its time to seperate the children. to have different playgroups. to take a break.

sometimes children react in ways that surprise us. did op's dd cry every single time? or did she this last time? perhaps the mother is used to disciplining OPs dd and might have been mortified when OPs dd reacted that way for the first time.

*asking a child to say sorry, while you may not agree with - is a common practice amongst most families*.

The bolded is a very weak excuse for stepping all over another parent and child's relationship.

Formula feeding is very common amongst most families.
Disposable diaper use is very common amongst most families.
High fructose corn syrup consumption is very common amongst most families.
Red dye, artificial flavoring consumption is very common amongst most families.
Spanking is very common amongst most families.
Gender stereotyping is very common amongst most families.

Would you like someone to come in and run rough-shod all over your parenting choices because it's "common amongst most families?" We'll just barge right in and hand your kid a cookie made with red M&Ms, wash it down with some formula (hey, it's milk, right? Who's veg anyway? That's not "common amongst most families."), spank them when they won't do what I asked and ... wait, you have a problem with that? What do you mean "the fallout of these choices?" Hey, I'm a parent, too and I'm just feeding your child and giving them a little discipline. What's the problem?


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## neetling (Jan 24, 2006)

I don't see it as a giant deal. As long as the adult was respectful to the child, I pretty much think that kids need to understand that some people will have problems with their behavior. I tell other kids that I am around to stop doing things to me or my kids.

I once approached another mom about her daughter being mean to my son and honestly I felt like I was tattling. "come deal with your kid's behavior" can go over like a lead brick. I've seen it happen time and time again. The mom gets huffy and things get way overblown. I'd much rather (in most cases, obviously not if something was super serious) just tell the kids to stop or redirect whatever is going on. Because in the OP's case, I'm probably irritated that I'd need to be redirecting/disciplining the OP's child, interrupting me and my kids and whatever we were doing, while OP chatted away (knowing her kid was bugging me/mine). I would probably be much nicer to the kid than to OP.

My neighbor's granddaughter is sometimes physical with my kids. The grandma can get huffy when my kids go knock on her door to tell her what's happened. So the last time the girl came to my house after she had hurt one of my kids. I told her to stop. She's 4. (but frankly I don't mind if grandma gets miffed, it's happening way too often)


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

My thing is- I'd rather have a mom get angry with me, than have her kid be distraught/sad/whatever and be scared/embarrassed with me.

An adult woman can handle herself- kids do not usually have the reserves for situations like this. Thy may not understand REALLY whats going on. Just that this adult is upset with them for tickling/playing rough, etc.

Moms that get puffed up over being approached to help control a situation would not be someone I would spend a whole lot of time with.

Better to know and weed that energy out anyway, I say.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I think that this necessitates a frank talk between friends.

But to be blunt, if the OP is going to go high horse and tell this other person "How dare you tell my DD to not do what she was doing and ask her to apologize!" she should be prepared to hear "What did you expect, when you didn't take care of the problem when it was happening and weren't paying attention enough to see us go out of the room and start our discussion until we were mostly through?"


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

I think that me and my kid are going to have to live in the world. In the world I don't get to control how everyone else talks to me at all times. If you believe that no one else has the right to interact with your kid in a way that you don't like then you need to stay home. Period. There isn't a way to ensure that everyone will always speak to your kid in a way they will like. That's life. You deal with it. If you are rude/inappropriate/whatever to someone else sometimes they are going to react in ways that are unfun for you. Seems like natural consequences to me. People are unpredictable.


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

So we do away with common courtesy and respect for others and different parenting philosophies because life and people are unpredictable?

Don't like how someone treats your kid?? Stay home?!

Wow.

Maybe breastfeeding mothers should just stay home if they don't like how people approach them?

No sense in worrying ourselves over it.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ladymeag* 
The bolded is a very weak excuse for stepping all over another parent and child's relationship.

Formula feeding is very common amongst most families.
Disposable diaper use is very common amongst most families.
High fructose corn syrup consumption is very common amongst most families.
Red dye, artificial flavoring consumption is very common amongst most families.
Spanking is very common amongst most families.
Gender stereotyping is very common amongst most families.

*Would you like someone to come in and run rough-shod all over your parenting choices because it's "common amongst most families?"* We'll just barge right in and hand your kid a cookie made with red M&Ms, wash it down with some formula (hey, it's milk, right? Who's veg anyway? That's not "common amongst most families."), spank them when they won't do what I asked and ... wait, you have a problem with that? What do you mean "the fallout of these choices?" Hey, I'm a parent, too and I'm just feeding your child and giving them a little discipline. What's the problem?

<bold> is that what the other mom is doing? running rough-shod. no she is protecting her child. AND doing it the best way SHE knows how. even if that means in her books giving the child red M&Ms to be washed down with formula. my statement was made to point out that the mom was handling it the best way she could.

she probably is doing what most people normally do. stop the behaviour and ask the child to apologize. since the mother for various reasons doesnt seem to do it. its not the first time. it isnt about wrong or right. its about handling it right at the moment.

if this was a first time occurrence i would have said yeah she should have told the mom first.

but its not. esp. if i didnt like my friend disciplining my child i would hang out near the child and rectify the behaviour the moment it happened AGAIN.

so yeah there have been mothers who have got into trouble because they bf their friends formula fed baby - because they were doing what they thought the best they could do to take care of that baby at that time.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tallulahma* 
So we do away with common courtesy and respect for others and different parenting philosophies because life and people are unpredictable?

Don't like how someone treats your kid?? Stay home?!

Wow.

Maybe breastfeeding mothers should just stay home if they don't like how people approach them?

No sense in worrying ourselves over it.

Hyperbole much? I teach my kid what I teach my kid. I behave with my version of common courtesy and you use yours. I don't think we will agree on everything. If I don't like how you are treating me I can get my panties in a twist or I can stay home. Yup, those are my options.

If you are going to get hysterical about how people approach you on *any* topic, yeah maybe you should stay home. Otherwise you need to learn to shrug it off because you can't control other people. You really think that you should have the right to control how everyone speaks to you? Well... good luck with that.


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## Peppermint Leaf (Jan 11, 2008)

I suspect that if everyone was sitting at the table with the exception of your daughter who is running around the room and under the table -- this mom was most likely not the only one getting a little uptight


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

With all due respect, protecting her child from being tickled. Making another kid cry because they tickled her kid. Sounds super productive.

But who cares if the girls feelings were hurt.

She should know better than to tickle or be annoying.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tallulahma* 
With all due respect, protecting her child from being tickled. Making another kid cry because they tickled her kid. Sounds super productive.

But who cares if the girls feelings were hurt.

She should know better than to tickle or be annoying.

I've known some kids who cry if you look at them wrong. Should no one ever look at them again? It doesn't sound like this other mother was screaming or ranting and raving.

When my feelings have been hurt because I was disciplined I generally learned that I should avoid the behavior that got me yelled at. Seems effective.


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
Hyperbole much? I teach my kid what I teach my kid. I behave with my version of common courtesy and you use yours. I don't think we will agree on everything. If I don't like how you are treating me I can get my panties in a twist or I can stay home. Yup, those are my options.

If you are going to get hysterical about how people approach you on *any* topic, yeah maybe you should stay home. Otherwise you need to learn to shrug it off because you can't control other people. You really think that you should have the right to control how everyone speaks to you? Well... good luck with that.

I don't think I have the right to control how anyone talks to me or my child. I only control myself. I can only choose to surround myself with people that respect my parenting and me enough to give me a heads up when my kids annoying them.

This was two friends- I cannot imagine not being able to say "look Jen, the tickling is really getting to ds"

I personally was shocked by all of the "well you obviously were not going to do anything about it"

I guess I'm used to a much more laid back environment than most of what people are describing...I have no room in my life for people that need to discipline smothers child for being annoying. Lol

If that were the case I'd be disciplining other peoples kids all the time


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tallulahma* 
With all due respect, protecting her child from being tickled. Making another kid cry because they tickled her kid. Sounds super productive.

But who cares if the girls feelings were hurt.

She should know better than to tickle or be annoying.

one is not better or worse than the other.

tickling the foot of a SHY child while he eats is not 'just tickling'.

i am sure mom didnt intend to make friend's child cry.

however we are only going off the OPs original post. she has not replied back to provide any further information. perhaps her dd is v. sensitive too. and thus cried.

her dd was hyper. and loses it in a group situation. and i know exactly what she means. her dd was overwhelmed. and if that had been my dd that crying would have been a 'god-send'. because during moments like that crying was the only way dd would have gotten past the overstimulation to be able to calm down and settle down. doesnt mean mom should have made the child cry - but at a time when dd was tired and hyper - no amount of reasoning worked. she would need to throw a tantrum and cry to settle down. she could not be brought down otherwise. if she was just hyper and not overwhelmed she could be calmed by reading a book. that meant i just had to be super vigilant to repeatedly calm her so she wouldnt get hyper. because when she got hyper she lost sense of reason and would do the 'wrong' things.

but in general - the OP probably got her answer. some people agree it was ok what the other mom did, others felt she shouldnt have. she should have said something to the mom.

we dont have enough information to figure out the rightness or wrongness of action.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm not seeing how having a conversation interrupted and being called out in front of a group of people for not being on top of my child any less embarassing if the OP is embarassed that this has happened and feels horrible about it.

Calmly telling a child who is invading your child's space physically "Little Johnny doesn't like that, please stop" is well within most people's realm of normal and reasonable. Especially if the behaviour is happening in front of the child's mother who can see well enough its annoying the other child and really not doing anything to keep it from happening. If one wants to handle it themselves, then, they need to be prepared to enforce other peoples rules regarding personal space and stay on top of it. Which is exactly what did not happen.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Well, fwiw...

A few months ago i was with 2 other women and their kids. One had a newborn, one a 12month old. I was there with my 4yo and my newborn. My older DD was LOVING the bigger baby, and playing with her a lot. I watched her carefully whenever they were close together, and gave her constant gentle direction (she can tend to be rough sometimes). The two of them were having a great time.

A bit later my DD was over by the window, nowhere near the baby, and i was sat nursing my nb, when the 12month old's mama suddenly said "NO!" very loudly and then shot a really guilty look at me. My DD was stood by the window with a rubber band hooked over her thumb, stretched and ready to ping right at her DD's face. Because they weren't standing close together i just wasn't paying very much attention and another second and her baby could have been rubber-banded in the face. The other mum was soooooo apologetic and i had to tell her about 20 times, no *I* was sorry, and she was completely right to do what she did and stop my DD in her tracks - 4 is old enough to know not to do that but unfortunately maybe not old enough to think about what would happen if you DO do it. My DD tends to learn not to do things AFTER they've been done to her...

To me it was a non-issue, or if anything, a positive thing where i felt supported in my role. She didn't do anything i wouldn't have done and i appreciated the help as it meant i could nurse my newborn and not be constantly panicking about my 4yo- knowing that the other moms were on it too.

OP i think maybe the other mom wanted YOU to do more about it. My DD1 is incredibly high needs and spirited and if i let her she too would be crawling all over the room and annoying people. I don't let her. There isn't really any reason for a child of 4 to be crawling under the table people are eating at. Perhaps the other mom worked HARD to get her boy to sit and eat at the table and doesn't appreciate your DD running riot?

Believe me, i know how hard it is to have the spirited child, but i just think if *I* don't help DD to behave really well i'm doing HER a disservice, after all, the reality is people probably WON'T take it up with me if she behaves badly, they will go straight to telling her off.

Table manners especially have been hard for my DD, she finds it so hard to sit still and control her waving arms and so on!







But we practice at every meal in my house and she is getting there.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

My issue with taking my child out of the room without my permission isn't about respect. If she felt that was necessary (if this were my kid) I'd expect her to tell me she was going to take my child out to talk to him about the tickling. People shouldn't be removing someone else's child from where the parent is without telling the parent. I can't even imagine telling someone else's child that they need to come with me, and having them leave the room where their parent is.


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## Mackenzie (Sep 26, 2004)

I subscribe to the village concept as well. Parents who are of the "only I can give feedback to my child" philosophy are very off putting to me... I once had a mother introduce herself and say something to the effect of "don't speak to my child about anything they do because I have been known to go crazy on people over that"... mind you, she lived 2 blocks away and her boys played nearer to house as I didn't let my kids roam that far... but I really don't get that attitude


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## Bellabaz (Feb 27, 2008)

I think your friend handled it very gently. I think it was thoughtful of her to take the two kids in another room so as not to embarass anyone or distract the others at the party. I could be that your two kids' personalities just clash at the moment and later they will grow out of this. I don't think this situation demonstrated that you are a failure as a parent. Although I can understand sensitivity about it. However I also don't know what the other situations entailed when you say your friend disciplined your child.

ETA: i don't agree with the forced apology though. And I am working under the assumption that you and friend know each other well enough to be aware of each other's discipline styles and to respect each others children.

My dd is the one who is quiet usually. We have a friend who has a very spirited dd. Playdates end half the time because her dd is having a fit about something or other or because my dd has become frightened or bothered by her daughters yelling or demanding something. I don't view her as a parent who has failed nor do I view her child as lacking in discipline. Its more a question of personalities and boundaries.

Maybe work on staying more aware of your dd's action in a social setting but over all- Don't be so hard on yourself =)


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## aprons_and_acorns (Sep 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mackenzie* 
I subscribe to the village concept as well. Parents who are of the "only I can give feedback to my child" philosophy are very off putting to me... *I once had a mother introduce herself and say something to the effect of "don't speak to my child about anything they do because I have been known to go crazy on people over that"*... mind you, she lived 2 blocks away and her boys played nearer to house as I didn't let my kids roam that far... but I really don't get that attitude


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## Mackenzie (Sep 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aprons_and_acorns* 










Yep... sigh


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I really think that the OP needs to clarify some things. Again we have a thread where there isn't enough information and far too much speculation.

In general, it sounds like the OP ignored the situation and the friend gently intervened to keep her son from being tormented. That may turn out to not be the case, but the OP is not back here explaining further.

Had this been from the other side, the thread might read "My son was being tormented by a hyperactive child with no boundaries and the other mother was ignoring the situation. I gently took the children aside to discuss the situation as the other mother just went on eating and chatting and paying no attention... now the mother is upset with herself and me, the girl cried in spite of gently explaining that she needs to stop tickling... what do I do?" Everyone would be rallying around that person. Objectivity is lacking here, I think.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
I really think that the OP needs to clarify some things. Again we have a thread where there isn't enough information and far too much speculation.

In general, it sounds like the OP ignored the situation and the friend gently intervened to keep her son from being tormented. That may turn out to not be the case, but the OP is not back here explaining further.

Had this been from the other side, the thread might read "My son was being tormented by a hyperactive child with no boundaries and the other mother was ignoring the situation. *I gently took the children aside* to discuss the situation as the other mother just went on eating and chatting and paying no attention... now the mother is upset with herself and me, the girl cried in spite of gently explaining that she needs to stop tickling... what do I do?" Everyone would be rallying around that person. Objectivity is lacking here, I think.

If she said that, I'd rally around her, but if she said she took the child into another room to discipline him, no I wouldn't. I'd say that went beyond what was appropriate.


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## VocalMinority (Apr 8, 2009)

Obviously, you've gotten plenty of feedback on this, but I'll add mine, simply because my friend and I were discussing this, over the weekend, with regard to our children.

I do think it's OK to address the behavior of a child who is not your own, and who is:
* Behaving inappropriately to your own child (or any child, really)
* Endangering herself; or
* Setting an unacceptable example for other kids.

There could be any number of reasons why the child's own parent doesn't address the behavior, including the fact that the parent is distracted and simply didn't notice it. Or the parent could be so accustomed to the behavior that they don't realize how disturbing it is, to others.

But _especially_ if the child's own parent is there, some amount of discretion and respect is required! I think it would have been fine for your friend to tell your child firmly, "My child does not like you tickling his feet while he's trying to eat. I've already asked you to stop. We like to be near you, but if you do not stop - right now - we will go and eat somewhere away from you." That ensures her child doesn't have to be "victimized" by the fact that you tolerate different behavior from your daughter than she does, from her son. And it leaves the ball in your court. If you don't want your daughter to drive your friend to another table, you can step in and do what YOU - as the parent - feel is necessary, to control her. Or, if you feel your daughter's behavior is no big deal and your friend is overreacting, you can blow it off and let your friend eat elsewhere, if that's what she decides to do.

But it was inappropriate for your friend to take your daughter away from you - without consulting you - and tried to make her apologize. Whether you force your child to apologize or not is YOUR call, as a parent. SHE is only entitled to make sure HER child is not harassed or mistreated; or to step in with emergency measures if your daughter or other children are in danger.

That said, you may want to think about whether your daughter's behavior is typically irritating to other people and whether you should teach her to be more considerate and less impulsive. It's best to balance "letting a kid be a kid" with teaching them how to behave in ways that won't drive others away and make the child feel sad, unliked, or excluded as a result.


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

Feeling bad when you do something inappropriate (or fail to do something appropriate) is not the fault of the person who steps in to correct the situation for you.

Yes, if the parent was sitting right there and doing nothing while her child repeatly touched my child who didn't want to be touched (or who was trying to focus on eating or whatever), I would say something. I don't do forced apologies either, and to me, that's not the point. The point is to respect the boundaries of others. I don't understand why the need to not hurt feelings trumps the need for bodily integrity.

In fact, I do this almost daily when I pick up my children. A boy in my son's class has a habit of grabbing my son and I by the arm (he loops his arm through ours) and dragging us around. I do not wait for a teacher or his parents to ask him to stop, *I* tell him to let go, tell my son to tell him to let go, and tell him that he needs to ask before he grabs us like that, and I don't let it drop until he stops. At 10, he should know better and it should be sinking in. I am not mean about it, but I am not going to give my child the idea that he just has to put up with unwanted touching.


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## Birdie B. (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mackenzie* 
I subscribe to the village concept as well. Parents who are of the "only I can give feedback to my child" philosophy are very off putting to me... I once had a mother introduce herself and say something to the effect of "don't speak to my child about anything they do because I have been known to go crazy on people over that"... mind you, she lived 2 blocks away and her boys played nearer to house as I didn't let my kids roam that far... but I really don't get that attitude

This is me too. I am not friends with anyone who would intentionally hurt, embarrass or shame my child, so I am comfortable with others directing and redirecting her to proper behavior. It can be really hard in group settings, especially at a party, to be on top of your child's behavior. I have no problem stopping other toddlers from clobbering my daughter, and vice versa. She's a little young for apologies (she's almost 2), but I wouldn't be upset about this situation at all. Her friend didn't mean to make her daughter cry. It's not her fault the daughter is so sensitive.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cappuccinosmom* 
I don't think a 4 yo crying is a neccessary indicator that the adult in question was doing something evil.







Children do not take correction well--even gentle, reasonable correction.

I don't see any reason to be _outraged_ over this. Some changes need to be made, for sure. Starting with mama being more vigilant. But I think outrage is out of proportion to the situation as described.

Yes, thank you. The child was overtired and probably bordering on cranky anyway. Jeez, it probably didn't take much to make her cry.

OP, I have been in your shoes. Unfortunately, the woman who (properly) disciplined my son for bothering her older infant formed an opinion of me as a lax parent and now doesn't like us because of my failure to take immediate action (no one was hurt, but I was distracted by nursing, lack of sleep, and trying to manage the activities we were involved in). I'm glad it was your FRIEND who handled the situation and not a stranger.

I personally LOVE it when DS1 gets GD from other parents. It reinforces that the world is not limited to our family, and my rules are not arbitrary but universal. Plus, kids get tired of hearing it from their parents and sometimes hear it with fresh ears from someone else. However, I try to do it myself because it's MY job, not the other parents'.


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## Peppermint Leaf (Jan 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
.

OP i think maybe the other mom wanted YOU to do more about it. My DD1 is incredibly high needs and spirited and if i let her she too would be crawling all over the room and annoying people. I don't let her. There isn't really any reason for a child of 4 to be crawling under the table people are eating at. Perhaps the other mom worked HARD to get her boy to sit and eat at the table and doesn't appreciate your DD running riot?

.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

I would be pretty upset about the forced apology, and the removing your child to another room. I fail to see how that falls under the realm of protecting her child from yours. If your child wasn't responding to a clear statement such as "stop that, he doesn't like it" then she should have directed a clear statement at you.

I do have one of those kids who is very spirited and never sits still and plays very exhuberantly, and I just tend to restrict our social outings to kids who are more like her. I have friends with very quiet and gentle kids, and they just don't play well, so we don't try any more. It's not good for anyone. They're not at an age where we can expect total compliance in respecting other people's wishes yet, and there's no sense in trying to teach these lessons at the expense of other children.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
If she said that, I'd rally around her, but if she said she took the child into another room to discipline him, no I wouldn't. I'd say that went beyond what was appropriate.

Exactly... without the OP coming back and clarifying, there is too much supposition. It's all how it's played out in our own minds as the readers rather than what really happened... and even that is just a one-sided story. It could be that the OP continuously ignored the problem (we only know what she purposely ignored once based on her post) and the other mother may have asked several times, without the OP hearing her, to do something. (See, you can make up any story, and it will change the response given.) If *my* scenario were fact, then taking a child into the other room to talk would be VERY appropriate.


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Exactly... without the OP coming back and clarifying, there is too much supposition. It's all how it's played out in our own minds as the readers rather than what really happened... and even that is just a one-sided story. It could be that the OP continuously ignored the problem (we only know what she purposely ignored once based on her post) and the other mother may have asked several times, without the OP hearing her, to do something. (See, you can make up any story, and it will change the response given.) If *my* scenario were fact, then taking a child into the other room to talk would be VERY appropriate.









isnt that the truth.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

People keep saying forced apology. Was it forced or did she just ask for it? I think people have a right to ask for what they need to make a situation better. I don't know how you can force an apology from a 4 year old. All you can do is ask for it. "I am sorry" made my kids feel better. If someone had hurt their feelings I would ask "can you tell them you are sorry" I think the other mom was trying to make peace between the kids.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

The bolded is a very weak excuse for stepping all over another parent and child's relationship.
Not the person this was directed at, but I wanted to say that I would hardly consider correcting a child who is bothering your child "stepping all over a relationship." The OP had the opportunity to correct her child's behavior and didn't. If nothing else, perhaps this will be a lesson to deal with her child's behavior if she doesn't want other people to do it.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
If she said that, I'd rally around her, but if she said she took the child into another room to discipline him, no I wouldn't. I'd say that went beyond what was appropriate.

Whereas if it was my friend taking aside one of my children, it wouldn't have bothered me at all, except maybe being embarassed that I didn't correct them first.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
Not the person this was directed at, but I wanted to say that I would hardly consider correcting a child who is bothering your child "stepping all over a relationship." The OP had the opportunity to correct her child's behavior and didn't. If nothing else, perhaps this will be a lesson to deal with her child's behavior if she doesn't want other people to do it.

not once incident... but didn't the OP say that it had happened often?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
Whereas if it was my friend taking aside one of my children, it wouldn't have bothered me at all, except maybe being embarassed that I didn't correct them first.

Again, taking aside wouldn't bother me. I would be embarrassed that I hadn't stopped the behavior too. But taking away into another room to do it away from my view would bother me. That's the issue for me. And I'm actually surprised that it doesn't bother other people.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

I am not clear on whether they left the room specifically to talk about the tickling without the OP knowing that, or if they all left the room just because they were done eating, and then the tickling happened again.

With the leaving the room issue aside, with my closest friends who know my kids well, I would be appreciative. Both of my kids tend toward wildness and can be really persistent. I like for them to run up against reasonable limits that are enforced by someone other than me, because it reinforces that these are widespread expectations for their behavior, not just _my_ expectations. Also when one is not listening to me, and I am at the point of needing to escalate my own discipline with either a time-out or leaving a playdate or gathering, sometimes a word from a friend to my child about their behavior can turn it completely around and the child gets it and we can go on with the playdate or gathering.

With someone who doesn't know us well, I don't mind at all if they are speaking up for their own child in an informative and non-shaming tone (and I feel bad that they had to do it because I wasn't on top of it first); and I don't mind if someone we don't know sees me struggling with my kid and "speaks up for me" in a reasonable tone (ie "you should listen to your mom") because hearing that from another adult _really_ gets his attention and can be a big help (and I always say "thank you !!" over his head. )

The only time I don't want others disciplining my kid is when their expectations are overly rigid, their tone is shaming, and my child was not doing anything they had any way to know was not appropriate. Then it bugs me. But with my kids temperaments








, that is not usually the case.


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## Peppermint Leaf (Jan 11, 2008)

Does anyone think its odd that the OP posted this 3 days ago and has never come back to clarify her original Post


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

I would be fine with a friend correcting my child, but not with taking them out the room without me, or with telling my child to say sorry.

In your friend's shoes, I would have asked your dd to stop, then if she did not, I would have fetched you and asked you to handle it. That is what I would want a friend to do for me.
This. I don't at all mind when a friend disciplines my kid right in the moment if I am missing a situation, and heck knows I do the same, but if the situation is such that a child needs to be removed and spoken to at length, then I consider that the job of the actual parent.


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## Multimomma (Jan 25, 2008)

And I think taking aside to another room might have been a way to avoid embarrassment. To me, it would have meant that she didn't want to embarrass the child in front of all the other kids by pointing out those things in front of them. So it's not necessarily this malicious, 'get them away and be mean' idea, that's how we handle things here. It's not the business of other children, who could take that and tease her for it later.

Personally I would have been irritated at a mom who said stop, then ignored it because she was too busy talking to other adults while the first mom is having to sit with kids to keep this behavior from bothering her child.

Just my 2¢.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peppermint Leaf* 
Does anyone think its odd that the OP posted this 3 days ago and has never come back to clarify her original Post









actually i dont.

she admitted her mistake - basically 'bashed' herself and said the best she could explain.

and many of us continue to 'bash her' (not that's what we are doing but i am sure that's how it feels for her).

so if i was in her shoes this would be a v. hard thread for me to read. its hard to be confirmed that we did wrong.

so that's why i dont find it odd that OP has not come back to clarify. in fact is there a reason to clarify. i can see it getting worse.

she had a purpose and she got her answer.


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## Catubodua (Apr 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peppermint Leaf* 
Does anyone think its odd that the OP posted this 3 days ago and has never come back to clarify her original Post









no. my guess is she only wanted responses that went along the lines of "your friend is horrible and what she did was horrible! you are wonderful!" and when she didn't get that, she stopped wanting to read the responses.

sometimes it's hard to not get the response you expect.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peppermint Leaf* 
Does anyone think its odd that the OP posted this 3 days ago and has never come back to clarify her original Post









No she probably has a life and doesn't come here every day. Three days ago was a weekend...


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Multimomma* 
And I think taking aside to another room might have been a way to avoid embarrassment. To me, it would have meant that she didn't want to embarrass the child in front of all the other kids by pointing out those things in front of them. So it's not necessarily this malicious, 'get them away and be mean' idea, that's how we handle things here. It's not the business of other children, who could take that and tease her for it later.

.

I totally agree. They could have also been in the room because girl clearly wanted to play with boy and maybe mom thought a more quiet less stimulating environment would be a better way for them to play. Or because she wanted to get away from the noise and distraction where the kids could express themselves and mom could step in if need be. Or so mom could facilitate a conversation.


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## sora (Oct 7, 2006)

Thanks so much for all the responses. I'm sorry that I have not come back to clarify. My friend took my daughter and her son to another room in front of me without telling me anything. I think that was the part that I was offended most. I feel that I should have given a chance to correct my daughter since it was not my intention to let my daughter behave that way. If she gave my daughter a warning, I probably would've taken her out to the side to talk to her.

I think I'm offended more because of my relationship with my friend. We used to be very close but not at heart any more. My daughter tends to be aggressive with her son. I think partly because her son is so mellow and won't fight back hard. Also they spent a lot of time together since they were 1. So my daughter treats him like her little brother.
I think she is annoyed that I'm not doing enough to stop my daughter. I'm trying my best but I'm not always so vigilant. But she is super sensitive and notices everything. She is also very strict with teaching him manners (like always sitting at the table to eat, etc) while I'm more lax. She often makes me feel like I'm not a good parent. Now I have a baby, it becomes harder for me to be vigilant for my daughter. She usually plays quite well with most kids these days. So I started to relax and this happened.
I also noticed that my friend was getting distant from me and hanging out with moms with younger girls who are more gentle. I think I need to take a break from her and her son.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora* 
My friend took my daughter and her son to another room in front of me without telling me anything. I think that was the part that I was offended most. I feel that I should have given a chance to correct my daughter since it was not my intention to let my daughter behave that way.














Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora* 
I think I'm offended more because of my relationship with my friend. We used to be very close but not at heart any more. My daughter tends to be aggressive with her son. I think partly because her son is so mellow and won't fight back hard. Also they spent a lot of time together since they were 1. So my daughter treats him like her little brother.
I think she is annoyed that I'm not doing enough to stop my daughter. I'm trying my best but I'm not always so vigilant. But she is super sensitive and notices everything. She is also very strict with teaching him manners (like always sitting at the table to eat, etc) while I'm more lax. She often makes me feel like I'm not a good parent. Now I have a baby, it becomes harder for me to be vigilant for my daughter. She usually plays quite well with most kids these days. So I started to relax and this happened.
I also noticed that my friend was getting distant from me and hanging out with moms with younger girls who are more gentle. I think I need to take a break from her and her son.

It sounds like there is a temperament mismatch between the kids, and a parenting style difference between you and your friend. I've also experienced this. My kids are the louder and wilder type, and they want to get a response out of other kids. They don't mix well with quiet children because they keep escalating their attempts to get a satisfying response. I do my best to keep them from being too disruptive, but I cannot change who they are, and I cannot be on their case every second. Parents with quiet kids and loftier ideas of "control" and "manners" are a mismatch for me and my kids, because no matter what I did or how hard I tried, I could never contain my children enough to meet the standards of someone like this. I've learned to not even attempt relationships when that is the situation. There is too much that is too different. A break would probably be less stressful for you both.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora* 
I think I'm offended more because of my relationship with my friend. We used to be very close but not at heart any more. My daughter tends to be aggressive with her son. I think partly because her son is so mellow and won't fight back hard. Also they spent a lot of time together since they were 1. So my daughter treats him like her little brother.
I think she is annoyed that I'm not doing enough to stop my daughter. I'm trying my best but I'm not always so vigilant. But she is super sensitive and notices everything. She is also very strict with teaching him manners (like always sitting at the table to eat, etc) while I'm more lax. She often makes me feel like I'm not a good parent. Now I have a baby, it becomes harder for me to be vigilant for my daughter. She usually plays quite well with most kids these days. So I started to relax and this happened.
I also noticed that my friend was getting distant from me and hanging out with moms with younger girls who are more gentle. I think I need to take a break from her and her son.

I have been in this exact same situation and it is hard. I have a spirited DD too and have found that as she gets older, things have gotten better.

I think it hurts more for us, the mom, to loose friendships when temperament and parenting mismatches become to big to overcome.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laundrycrisis* 












It sounds like there is a temperament mismatch between the kids, and a parenting style difference between you and your friend. I've also experienced this. My kids are the louder and wilder type, and they want to get a response out of other kids. They don't mix well with quiet children because they keep escalating their attempts to get a satisfying response. I do my best to keep them from being too disruptive, but I cannot change who they are, and I cannot be on their case every second. Parents with quiet kids and loftier ideas of "control" and "manners" are a mismatch for me and my kids, because no matter what I did or how hard I tried, I could never contain my children enough to meet the standards of someone like this. I've learned to not even attempt relationships when that is the situation. There is too much that is too different. A break would probably be less stressful for you both.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

s

I want to encourage you though. I was a mom who worked really hard to teach her child manners and expected her to obey etc. It meant that I had to put some friendships on hold with people who chose a different path. It totally sucked. I missed my friend and that closeness but I didn't enjoy hanging out with their rowdy and wild kids (it was often embarrassing and hard for me to enjoy the time with my friend), dd often ended up getting physically hurt and the worst was even when her kids were tearing around being crazy I still expected mine to behave and she would feel torn and it would be awkward for me to tell dd "xyz is naughty and you may not do it" while friends kids were doing xyz. I am sure friend felt judged but at the same time no way was I going to let dd do that.

ON THE UP SIDE....

Once the friends kids mellowed out and grew up we rekindled our relationship and those kids are still my dd best friends (they are between the ages of 13 and 15 now). I think I changed some and friend changed some and kids grew up etc....

So maybe it is a good time to take a break from a friend who has such a different philosophy about raising children and how children should act etc It doesn't mean either one of you are right or wrong. Its just hard to hang out with kids in such a teaching season. Keep in touch, maybe hang out without the kids, and then when the time is right you guys can be close mom friends again.


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## SilverLace (Jul 22, 2010)

I have been following this thread with a lot of interest... it brings me back to the days of having a toddler









sora- I wonder how come when you saw your friend taking the kids out of the room you didn't say anything? Seems like that would've been the time to say something before you became uncomfortable.

I think I am hearing two things from you- on one hand you agree your DD should've stopped and on the other had you say you are more relaxed and didn't have a problem with it. I think you are getting at the issue of balance- we all have parenting difference and kids with different personalities. No one parent and child should do all the adjusting or accommodating... both pairs should do some of the work. Sometimes it is hard to know in the moment what to do.

All that said, it is really hard when friendships shift because of parenting. It is easier when your kids are older because you can do more explaining outside of the situation, and kids get better at working things out themselves, and you might even have some time for your own friendships.

Hang in there mamas.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverLace* 
No one parent and child should do all the adjusting or accommodating... both pairs should do some of the work. Sometimes it is hard to know in the moment what to do.
.......
All that said, it is really hard when friendships shift because of parenting.











I have had both sides of the continuum be a problem.

I choose not to be around people with high-energy kids who don't make any attempt to control their kids at all, because since mine also tend toward wildness, and I am trying to balance teaching them appropriate behavior and self-control without crushing them with constant criticism, I feel it undermines my efforts when we are around kids who are wilder than them and parents who have much looser expectations than I do.

I also have a hard time being around people with naturally quieter kids, and/or much stricter ideas of behavior control than I have. The naturally quiet kids are understandably overwhelmed by my children, and I think their parents don't understand why I can't just tell my kids to calm down, because they've never experienced a wilder temperament and don't get that I need to pick my battles, and that what they are seeing usually _is_ the calmed down version and I _am_ making significant efforts to contain them.

They also have one friend who is told "no" to almost everything he wants to do that is loud or boyish. When we spend time with him, he is told "no, no, no" to tons of things that I see no problem with letting my kids do. I am not talking about misbehaviors - I'm talking about normal play activities for energetic boys. When we are with him I feel bad when my kids do stuff he's not allowed to, so I end up feeling like I have to tell them they can't do that right now because their friend can't. It's hard on them and me, and we spend less time with this friend as a result.

It's tough to be friends when the kids are really different, and the parents have different ideas. IMO it's almost impossible when there's not an effort from both sides to meet in the middle.


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