# Low Milk Supply/SNS Frustrations



## JenInMpls (Jan 18, 2004)

Hi all,

I am just here to vent a little steam about the SNS and am wondering what other people's experiences are, and perhaps ways to make the experience better. I have a very low milk supply for no obvious reason, and have tried everything except Domperidone to improve it (feel free to make suggestions but I have tried everything - lots of water, eating oatmeal, all herb combinations, rest, demand nursing 20 hours a day... etc, etc). It is not his latch (super), his palate (fine) or his tongue (normal), and it's not any problem with my nipples, it's my supply. 2.5 weeks postpartum he still gets a grand total of .5 oz after nearly 1/2 hour on each breast, and he was losing weight to a point where it was necessary to supplement him. Right now we're doing the SNS with formula. A friend of mine with an oversupply of milk is going to ship us her frozen stuff soon, but it doesn't solve the problem that is really frustrating me, namely not being able to feed my son myself. I thought it was a pain to try to hook this thing up while he's screaming for food, but nothing beat the sadness I felt when I woke up at 5 AM finding him trying to latch on to me through my shirt and knowing that i would have to wake both of us up to go tape tubes to my breasts instead of just lifting up my shirt and letting us both doze back off.

I have also taken away one of his main sources of comfort, namely sucking when he just wants to suck and doesn't need food, and feel very guilty about it. He spits a pacifier out and will suck on one of our fingers but that leaves a person one-handed until he's done.

He hates the SNS tubes, it's a struggle to get him to latch on with it, he won't latch if his mouth is on the tape, and he hates the formula. He's smart enough to know that the formula comes down if he sucks on the tube and so will frequently drop his latch and sip on the tube, or he will push it out with his tongue so he can just have the nipple.

oh, and the best part? He refuses to take a bottle, too, so if my partner wants to feed him, she has to use her finger and the SNS.

Well, little one is squalling again, presumably he's hungry because he spat up the last 1/2 hour's worth of formula







so I'm off to do this rigamarole again...

any thoughts, commiserations, kind words would be appreciated.

jen


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Hi, I'm sorry I don't have any good advice for you, but I have been where you have and I know what you are feeling, mama! Believe me, I understand. I had low supply (VERY VERY low supply) due to breast reduction surgery. I remember the sinking feeling I had when I realized that my milk had come in, this was not colostrum, and I was only production 1/2 an ounce PER DAY.

I hated using formula, and I hate SNS's and bottles because they are so artificial and breastfeeding is such a natural thing!

But, hang in there, mama. There is a possibility that you may not be able to resolve your low supply issue, and you should be prepared for that eventuality. I'm taking domperidone and I now produce probably 8-10 ounces per day... my DC is 10 months old now, and I still nurse him as much as I can. It has been a long time since those early days, and it makes me sad that I can't nurse him fully, but I am at peace with it now and just do the best I can.

Your baby loves you and will take comfort from you, regardless of whether you have to use an SNS for many months to come. And, while formula is disgusting and we hate using (and sometimes the babies hate eating it), at least they're getting as much mama milk as we can provide.

If you ever need to PM someone to vent or talk about what you're feeling, feel free to contact me. Believe me, I understand what you're going through.

Take care, and I hope your supply issues resolve themselves soon!!


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

I don't have any suggestions for you. When I attempted to supplement at the breast, my DD would also either spit out the nipple and suck on the tube if she were hungry, or she'd spit out the tube and suck on my nipple if she just wanted comfort. I never could make it work for us. (((HUGS)))









The best thing I ever did for our situation was to let go of some of the stress of trying so hard to make it work out. Honestly, I decided that every tiny drop of breastmilk she got was a good thing instead of thinking about every bit of formula as a bad thing. I quit worrying about different methods of supplementing, since she couldn't nurse anyway, and gave her bottles instead because they were just so much easier. At one point I decided to just pump as much as I could, and work on my supply problems instead of trying to get her to nurse. What's really odd, is that in doing so, my supply went up and nursing started working better (though very very slowly).


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## wombat (Nov 3, 2002)

Oh it's a horrible place to be when BF isn't working. I can empathise. I'm an SNS failure - I couldn't get my dd to latch onto the breast AND the SNS. She'd just settle for the SNS tube and bypass my breast completely. The first months are tough anyway on new parents but it's particularly tough when you have nursing troubles. It took us until 16w to get our major problems sorted out (high palate).

Have you seen this article?
http://www.breastfeed-essentials.com/hindrances.html

It's so frustrating when you don't know what the problem is too. I saw 3 LCs, all of whom were a great help but no one person had the whole answer.


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## veggiemommy (Nov 21, 2003)

Oh I'm so sorry that you are so frustrated! I just wanted to tell you that my son was 5 weeks early and I was REALLY sick with HELLP syndrome and so between being bottle fed in the hospital and not having a good suckling reflex, and my milk not coming in AT ALL, it took us at least 5weeks to get nursing going properly. I did end up taking domperidone--but only needed it long enough to get the milk started and then gradually got myself off of it and never needed it again so know that if you do decide to try it that it's not necessarily a permanent drug that you would have to be on. You may be opposed to the drug for other reasons though and of course that is your choice.

I didn't try an actual SNS system--but the local LLL person suggested that I get a #5 ng feeding tube from the pharmacy and attach that to a bottle and hold it at my breast to get him to learn how to nurse. The tube was REALLY teeny--might it be smaller than the SNS tubing?? If so--maybe that would help so that the baby wouldn't be able to choose whether to use the tube or you?? I'm not sure if that would help but thought that I would throw that out there.

Anyway--just wanted to share my experience in case there is something in there that could help. I know how frustrating it can be when you want to do something so badly and it is not working out.

Oh--have you contacted a LLL person in your city? They are *so* helpful and might just have some more ideas for you....

GOOD LUCK and take care of yourself--stress certainly doesn't help!

Holly
Mommy to Malcolm Dec 10/00, Josée Oct 21/02 and a baby boy due Feb 21/05!


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## Laurel (Jan 30, 2002)

Both you and your son may have more success with the Lact-aid supplementer than with the SNS. The lact-aid has narrower, softer tubes which may be more comfortable and less distracting for him. Also, the thinner tubes and the way the lact-aid is designed will require him to suck harder to get the supplement, which in turn will mean that your breasts will be better stimulated to produce milk.

Kudos to you for using a nursing supplementer in the first place! I used the lact-aid for five months and it's definitely challenging in many ways. If it turns out that your supply problems are permanent, the lact-aid is the better product for long-term nursing with a supplementer--it's recommended far more for adoptive moms and others for whom it will be a permanent attachment. I think their website is www.lact-aid.com


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

I wanted to mention one thing... your partner can feed the baby even if he doesn't like a bottle.









What we did with DS was (and this was to help him develop a better suck, but your partner could do this to help alleviate some of the work of feeding the baby) :

1. Take a tube (like the tube in your SNS) and attach it to a syringe
2. Put formula or mom's milk in the syringe
3. Use your thumb to hold the end of the tube at the end of your (clean) index finger.
4. Insert the index finger and tube into baby's mouth.

As he begins to suck, push the formula/milk slowly through the tube.

We did this a lot with my DS when he had latch problems and it really seemed to help.

Hope this helps,


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## scubamom (Dec 17, 2003)

hang in there it will get better.
i was like you with ds fussing and not liking the sns one bit.
hes now 8.5 months and we still use the sns and he still loves mommys breasts. it hard but stick with it, as although ds doesnt get much milk from me he uses me for comfort, to go to sleep, and gets all the other advantages of bf.
havent got time to write my full story as off to swimming but if u need to chat etc pm me. also check out the low supply tribe here, as there are many of us in the same boat, and helps to know u are not alone


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## JenInMpls (Jan 18, 2004)

I have to say that Jo did tape the SNS to her pinky, which Tristan loves to suck on, and when he sucked on it and formula came out he looked pretty startled :LOL

Believe it or not my dr prescribed me Domperidone today so cross your fingers... T was also up 10 oz in weight from the formula, which is good, he has been happier and sleeping more with lots less crying. Hopefully we can get him off of the formula soon, still waiting for friend to ship me her frozen stash of pumped breastmilk.

It's still frustrating to try to get myself all hooked up at 3 AM to feed him when he's yelling, but I've found that if I just put him to the breast first, without the tubes, it takes the edge off of his hunger and I can actually tape a tube onto my left breast while he's nursing the right (he has a hard time latching onto the right with the tube on it, anyway).

Thanks for your support, all!!

jen


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## earthchick (Sep 30, 2004)

I know the sadness/anger/frustration/helplessness you are dealing with. Mine is a long story that I won't get into right now (for one thing I have a babe asleep in my arms, making typing difficult!), but the upshot is that I had major supply problems and tried everything to (almost) no avail to fully bf my twins.

I want to give you some encouragement about the Domperidone. It is the _only_ thing that boosted my supply. I didn't start taking it til 4 weeks ago (when my babies were 3 mos. old) and it made an immediate difference (though it can take a few weeks for some people to see a difference). I take 80 mg a day but recently found out you can safely take up to 160 mg. I hope it works as well for you as it does for me.

I also second the recommendation to check out the Lact-Aid. I used an SNS for about 6 weeks and grew to hate that thing. With the Lact-Aid, you don't have to use tape. You can read on their website about the other ways it's different from the SNS.

Also, if you want more encouragement/advice, check out the Low Milk Supply Tribe thread on the Finding Your Tribe board.

Good luck to you! I really hope the Domperidone works.


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## larastheme (Jul 21, 2004)

I've also used both the SNS and the Lact-Aid for our DD. She is now 4.5 months, going strong, but I understand the emotions you're dealing with and send lots of hugs.

I found the Lact-Aid system to be easier to use, myself, and we're still using it. Of course, you'll find what works best for you, but that's my experience. Every time I see something about oversupply, engorgement, etc., or even about how a woman's breasts get larger during pg (mine didn't), I feel terribly sad. You aren't alone by any means.

There is something important to remember, even in the midst of all of your difficulty: you have a perfect little human being. No matter what else, you are giving your child every benefit you can. Many moms wouldn't care so much to do everything in her power to bf, like you're doing.







I applaud you.


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## Mama Rana (Aug 18, 2004)

Jen,







to you. i know this is so frustrating and in a way a blow to self-esteem. btdt
i don't have advice perse but some suggestions:

could you get ds latched on and then slip the tube in his mouth? i never tried that myself but read of others doing it. if you can do this, if your ds tries to latch on while sleeping maybe your partner could get the supplemter for you. you two would have to wake up but maybe not ds. OR _I_ had success not supplementing at night. usually he was satisfied with what little he got and just went back to sleep (esp. after i leraned to nurse lying down)--many women produce more at night--and i gave him his formula during the day. if he's nursing for comfort he may not mind that he doesn't get a lot of milk.

finally, your partner is a woman? have you looked into/would she be interested in induced lactation? i don't know all the details but i know there are mamas on this board who have done it. even if she isn't able to get a full supply, between the two of you your ds could get more breastmilk and your partner could help with the feedings.

good luck with the domperidone--it really helped me--and i really hope everything works itself out.


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## JenInMpls (Jan 18, 2004)

Kim - great idea with getting Jo to help with nursing. You're not the first to think of it. Unfortunately she has very, very flat nipples with large breasts that Tristan has a miserable time latching on to - and he has tried mightily! and failed miserably - and her whole reaction to the suggestion, every time, has been "hell, no." So I think that one's unfortunately a no-go.

I've tried popping a breast into Tristan's mouth at night but usually he gets so squirmy and whiny that I end up taking him out of the room in an attempt to not wake up Jo, since she has go to go work.

I have my domperidone, I've just been waiting for someone to take their afternoon nap so I can go take my pills!

jen


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JenInMpls*
(feel free to make suggestions but I have tried everything - lots of water, eating oatmeal, all herb combinations, rest, demand nursing 20 hours a day... etc, etc).

I do have a suggestion. I had low supply with my third. Then, ironically enough, I had oversupply with my fourth, so much so that I began to be plagues by clogged ducts and mastitis (infection of the milk duct). I was so sick so many times that out of depseration I started trying different diets.

I started to eat a vegan diet-- no meat or dairy products. Just produce and produce derived foods. I wasn't too picky about whether it was healthy or not-- I ate vegan chocolate cake, for instance, as well as the healthy stuff. Well, I was surprised to find that the main result was that my milk supply doubled. The result was evident within 24-48 hours. I was even more engorged than before (and got mastitis again







). But I remember thinking, wow, I wish I had known about this when I had low supply.

So why not try it for a week? Don't knock yourself out about whether or not stuff is healthy. Eat potato chips, nuts, vegan breads, fruits, veggies, rice (white, brown, whatever), roasted potatoes, carrots, roasted onions. Drink lots of fruit juices. For the time being don't even worry about whether it's organic or not. And drink water like there is no tomorrow. Drink more water than you thought was possible. I was drinking a gallon every 24 hours.

I assume you've tried Blessed Thistle tea, too?

good luck!


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## LittleLegos (May 10, 2004)

I was wondering if it's possible to supplement at only some of the feedings. It sounds like you and T. would love to just nurse sometimes. The night feedings especially would be nice to just nurse. You could then offer more supplement at other feedings or offer more frequently at other times.

Good luck!!


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## mum2 4 (Feb 20, 2004)

As you see from other posts the lact-Aid supplementer is more useful than the SNS for a number of reasons. It is designed to flow more like your breast so baby's suck will be more stimulating for your supply. The SNS flows by gravity so all baby has to do is slurp. Its useful for weak nursers but you need the real deal to help upgrade your supply. The Lact-Aid people may still have a discount for those who trade up to their product. It can be tucked in your bra so all the set up can happen very fast. I kept 6 filled bags in glasses set up in the fredge so all I had to do was pop on a clean top run warm water in the glass as I changed a diaper and we were ready to feed pronto.
Th L/A will also work for finger feeding when its your partner's turn.
Check out the Breastfeeding Boot Camp routine at fourfriends.com/abrw if you want to spend a weekend doing an at home- time out designed to boost production...


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Another one who has used both the lactaid and the SNS. I have found that the lactaid is MUCH easier (but on the flipside, much more expensive to keep up with). It never did increase my supply, but I've been using it for most of Brandon's life and it has allowed us to keep nursing, which I suppose is the goal.


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## Nosy (Feb 23, 2004)

Some more advice...check out the book Mother Food by Hillary Jacobson. I've actually increased my supply a little bit (and every bit counts) by eating hummus on her book's recommendation. My favorite breastfeeding book (and I have read most of them) is Dr. Jack Newman's Ultimate Breastfeeding Book. It has some great advice that I haven't seen elsewhere. I've struggled with low supply (insufficient glandular tissue and DS had tongue tie & jaundice) since the beginning so I know how tough it is.

Another resource someone led me to is MOBI a Yahoo group for mothers overcoming breastfeeding issues. Lots of good information there. Good luck and hang in there! We're here for you.


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## Vixxen (Jun 12, 2004)

Hi Jen,

My heart truely goes out to you. I know exactly how frustrating having to use the SNS is. My daughter is now 8 months and we are still nursing, but in the beginning we used something like an SNS (a ng tube that we put in a bottle and then in her mouth once she was latched on to me). We still struggle with a low supply, but the domperidone did help us. It was the only thing that did. I hope it works for you! *hugs*


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