# keeping your own anger in check



## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

I have been struggling with this for a while. I want not to yell, but when I feel angry - I lose it.

I finally found a good suggestion that is really helping me reach my goal on not yelling. I have not yelled in 5 days - not once. Maybe that doesn't seem like something to brag about, but for me it's a big deal and I hope to keep it up.

The suggestions is called positive self-talk. Basically it's the dialogue you have with yourself in your head.

For example you tell you child for the 100th time not to pick up the cat by it's tail and he doesn't listen, mean while the baby is crying in your arms to nurse and your older child is asking you for a snack. Now normally in my head I'm thinking, "G#d D#@mit why don't you ever listen to me - I just can't deal with this," etc. . . and then I yell.

So instead of saying all those negative things what I'm doing instead is this, "I can handle this calmly. Why isn't he listening to me, ok he's 3 and he doesn't understand it hurts the cat. I can take care of everyone in turn. I can remain calm."

Truthfully, when I read this suggestion in a book I thought that's stupid there's no way that's going to make a difference, but it really does.


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

Thanks for posting this! I've been having a hard time with this myself lately. I lose it, yell, then feel horrible for it.

I'll be trying it today!


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## imkissinboys (Mar 15, 2004)

yep, i'm in the same place. I hate to yell and when I do I feel like such a jerk. The other day I was tying to go to the bathroom and older ds kept coming in and asking about can he do this or that ( all stuff he knew was a no like play with daddys tools etc.) Baby ds just wanted to come in and hand me toilet paper. I drew the line at letting him wipe and he went loco. Crying at the top of his lungs. I JUST WANNA PEE !!!!! So I started yelling. Of course everyone started crying and I felt like a monster. It seems like this sort of thing happens all day.

I could use some good advice on this too. Positive talking to myself works sometimes but I think I might be too far gone. I need drastic measures.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Oh good I'm not the only yeller trying to reform









I hope others can add helpful suggestions for us all.

The other two things that I think help a lot:

#1: Spend time outside. I live in a really small house where my kids are practically in my lap every second of the day, so going outside gives me a little space to breath and center myself and gives the kids some time to be wild where they won't break anything or hurt themselves/each other.

#2: Play music. I don't know why this work, but I swear my kids behave so much better if there is music on in the background and walking around singing my favorite songs really keeps me calm. In fact I have been known, when one my children is whining and refuses to speak in a non-whining voice, to just sing away and pretend like I don't hear the whining









imkissinboys - I totally relate to your bathroom incident! Ahhh - I look forward to the day when I can pee without it being a major event in my house.


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## Nursingnaturalmom (Jan 1, 2003)

Thank You so much ladies for this post. YOu have no idea how much I needed to see that I am not the only yeller. I try, I really really try. But, then I lose it and I feel like such a bad Mom.

I am going to try that self talk and see if it works


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Excellent suggestion! Thanks!!


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## ja mama (Sep 6, 2003)

And when you're negative self talk gets so bad it's louder than your positive, talk out loud. I can do this, I am smart enough to get him in the stroller, I won't be swayed, I am a mountain... Saying it outloud the few times I've needed to hear myself say it, usually cracks me up after a minute. Then I can turn the internal dialogue on. It's almost like I have to get my own attention. Muttering pep talks to myself instead of what I'm gonna do if he doesn't ...

It does make a much bigger difference than you'd think. Somehow it keeps you calm enough to use that energy to think of your next move and follow through.


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

At least, it has worked today. I had to close my eyes and talk to myself for a few moments a couple of times, but it worked!

And I hear you about getting outside! That's part of our problem, lately. I'm exhausted, and it's crappy outside.

At least she's out running around with an older neighbor girl that helps out twice a week. It's 50 degrees, so I was determined to get her out. And the baby is taking a nice long nap!

And it's Friday!

Things are looking up!









Bec


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

yea bec! I'm glad it's working for you. Keep it up!

I took my boys out in the snow today to get them outside for a bit. They had such a good time, but damn I'm really sick of snow and ready for some warm days.

End of day five and still no yelling - I'm crossing my fingers I can keep it up over the weekend!


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## Bearsmama (Aug 10, 2002)

Dotcom-Thanks for your post. I've been struggling with yelling for a while now. DS is 2, challengin, spirited, etc. But I know that outside forces shouldn't always dictate my response. I am lacking in the positive self-talk department. And I will really try to incorporate this into my parenting. Thanks.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

The fact that I yell has really been getting me down lately. I have cut back, but can't get rid of it altogether, so I will try some of these suggestions. Sometimes my stress seems to be hormonal- it is possible to have PMT for two weeks out of four? Cuz I seem to get these yelling cycles happening & its related to what time of the month is it. I count, too. As in up to ten, just to get a handle on my temper, but sometimes I could just keep on counting.... & counting....


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## Liz (Mar 8, 2002)

Count me in! A couple things that help sometimes:

1. I tell my son how I am feeling. Not in a threatening way but it helps if I have to slow down and explain in terms a 3 year old might understand why I am feeling the way I am feeling. Helps me understand too.
2. If my son is pushing my buttons I think about how he wants me to get mad so if I don't want to give in then I can't get mad. Does that make sense? Because it really works. If I don't give in and get mad after a few days he stops that behaviour. He's almost four now so I actually say, "You're not going to get me mad, sweetie. Nope, ain't gonna happen."
3. Yelling leads to yelling, stop the cycle. And it feels so good when I am able to control myself.


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by aussiemum_
*it is possible to have PMT for two weeks out of four? Cuz I seem to get these yelling cycles happening & its related to what time of the month is it.*
Me too! Basically I have one week a month when I'm feeling prety balanced.









i'm going to try this positive talk thing. I also sometimes just walk out of the room whenever possible or do something physical (hit a pillow) to get the energy out (not in front of DS).


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## dirtlovinmama (Jan 2, 2004)

I have been so stressed out as a newly single mom (well 6 months ago I left), trying to work from home, dealing with my aging parents who are lacking support and I am picking up the slack, and dd's dad is constantly in need of reminders about boundaries and limits....UGH! I yell, not daily, but often enough....here are my suggestions for coping:

...I hold dd, sleep with her, BF, and listen to plenty of great music...getting rid of my TV eliminated like atleast half of all the power struggles I was yelling about (and she doesn't ever seem to miss it or is bored but our house is a lot messier with projects and such though)

I have had a lot of therapy, and have worked on self talk too...this always helps atleast a bit...it is hard to yell when I am telling myself...I Love me, I love her, I want to find balance," and I do the check list of everything that helps. BF almost is always an instant calming diverting major powerstruggles tool...

Hang in there Mama's, we are not bad moms because we yell; we are working on our issues and growing everyday.

Namaste


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

This is something both dh & I really need to work on. We're both yellers and I HATE it. I think we were getting a bit better, but at the moment we're getting ready to move and we're both massively stressed and not sleeping well and we seem to be yelling at ds a lot again.

I've sent this thread to dh. And I'll try the positive thing, but I don't think it will work for me, since my yelling is never prefaced by any kind of thoughts about how he's getting on my nerves or whatever, it just seems to come out of nowhere.


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## luckylady (Jul 9, 2003)

I haven't been here in SOOOOOO long because my resolution was to stop wasting so mcuh time on these boards







but I come here because of this EXACT thing, and here it is, and I am not alone. *sigh*

DD is 2 next month and VERY spirited. Always has been. Needs CONSTANT interaction from me and finds the ONE thing I ask her not to do and does it. And then I blow up and yell and feel like a sh*t afterwards. I feel like I am turning into MY mom who was a yeller, but she also called me names and so far I have called her a brat and I have cussed at DD.









Well today she threw a huge tantrum with a capitol T about me not letting her watch a video. (I am seriously thinking of tossing that stupid TV - she doesn't even watch that much, but still!) It was pretty bad. But I just closed my eyes and said GOD, grant me patience. It worked.

I will try the suggestions above also.

Man, this is hard. This sucks. Having a child really forces you to examine yourself under a microscope.

I feel better knowing that other AP moms struggle with this. I was starting to really beat myself up about it - even feel like I am abusing my DD with my anger.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

to all of you - I feel like I'm in good company and we're working on this together.

My kids are all asleep and I've officially made it one whole week without yelling.

This weekend was a huge challenge. My 6 yr old was in an awful mood on Saturday. We went to the grocery store and he whined the whole way through and then we got home and he just kept on whining and complaining about everything. I didn't yell once - I even gave him a hug and told him I was sorry he was feeling so sad today. Normally his whining has me insane and I just remained calm - telling myself it was just whining and that it was not going to get me upset.

I feel really good because dh has been inspired by my example and is also trying not to yell. I hope soon that it will reduce the yelling my children do too, because I know that kids learn through example far more than they learn what you tell them.

This week was so peaceful. Yes the kids did whine and get in trouble through out the week, but I handled it calmly and yet still effectively.

How was your week?

Anyone else have any good calming tips?

I feel so good and I hope this feeling motivates me to keep working on keeping myself calm.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Sometimes, when DS or DD are screaming in my face I send them off to their rooms until they can stop screaming at me. (and to keep me from screaming back) As soon as they quit & want to talk they can come out. But I'm on the fence with this technique- not sure if I like it or not?







: Any thoughts on that one?

I have tried the hold them until they calm down thing. I get physically attacked then. My glasses have been knocked off my face & bent, bit, scratched, etc. so I just haven't been real comfortable with that either......

BTW- congrats on a week without yelling, dotcommama!


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## Bearsmama (Aug 10, 2002)

Thanks again for this thread, ladies. Helping me realize that we are all struggling to get better in some ways. I have issues with anger, too-and it's usually lack-of-sleep driven.

Thank you, thank you!


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Bearsmama









I have been doing really well and have not yelled, but I swear my kids are trying their hardest to make me.

I don't think they do it on purpose, but I've noticed that when I change my method of discipline at first they are very well behaved and then it seems like they become really difficult for a few weeks - as if they are testing me to see if I will go back to my old ways. I just keep telling myself to ride out the storm and it will get better. I sure as heck hope so!

My oldest has kicked me twice this week - something he hasn't done in years, he's also just been extremely whiney and prone to grumpiness. My middle child has been really rough with his little brother.

I've been trying to deal with these things very gently. I put my oldest in time out for hurting me, but I did it very calmly and gently - despite the fact that I felt very angry. I just kept telling myself I could handle it calmly and that yelling was going to make it worse, not better.

I have also been trying to verbalize my feeling to my children instead of bursting out with yelling. I've been saying out loud, "I'm feeling really angry right now because of x." I'm hoping that this is good modeling for my children so they can express their emotions also.

I have also walked away from them and explained; "I'm feeling angry right now. I'm going to go in my room for a minute and be alone and let go of my anger, then we can discuss x."

If anyone has more tips for keeping calm - PLEASE post them!


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## NovaL (Nov 25, 2001)

This post is exactly what I came here looking for! I am trying to turn over a new leaf and not yell anymore. I am changing my ways with anger/discipline, and it has been a slow process. I am a former spanker but I have turned to yelling. And I would like to stop that too.

After I yell, I think to myself, how in the world would I feel if it were me being the one yelled at. That usually makes me feel so bad that i end up going and hugging the kids.

I want them to look back and think happy things from their childhood, not memories of me yelling all of the time.







:

I too, am glad to see that there are others that have a "AP" style of parenting and that also yell.


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## gardeningmom (Mar 4, 2004)

Where is the anger coming from? Does the gd parenting books address this issue?


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by gardeningmom_
*Where is the anger coming from?*
I have tried to figure this out, but I don't really know. Sometimes I know it's just from being overwhelmed. I have three kids who will sometimes all be freaking out at the same time and I just can't deal with everyone's issues at once and I lose my temper.

Quote:

_Originally posted by gardeningmom_
*Does the gd parenting books address this issue?*
If you know any that do I'd be happy to have some suggestions. Most that I have read do not address this issue of keeping your own anger in check.

There are a few. I was just reading Discipline Without Spanking or Shouting by Wychoff and Unell - this is where the idea of self talk came from.

I have also read When you Feel LIke Screaming by Holt & Ketterman, which is a good reminder why not to scream, but I didn't find it's pracitcal advice that helpful.


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## mama_o_sk (Mar 24, 2004)

Thanks so much for this thread!!! I wish I could say I am a reformed yeller, but not yet. And the worst part about it is that I was yelled at and spanked as a kid, so I know what it feels like.

I especially like the idea about the positive self-talk....I talk to myself all the time anyway







, so it might as well be the good stuff!!

I want my girls to have good memories of their childhood, not of mommy shouting. This is definitely the hardest job in the world.

BTW, dotcommama, CONGRATS on going so long without yelling!!!


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## Frogmorest (Jan 31, 2004)

This is a wonderful thread. I, too, have sent this to hubby to read. I want to stop yelling very badly! I hate what it does to the kids









Thank you!

Tammy


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Maybe it helps thinking that yelling is as unaceptable as spanking? Because if we're not lashing out on our children why do we yell? I think in a little hidden corner of our minds, we think "yelling is not as bad, I can do it a bit". Maybe we should start thinking yelling is as bad as spanking and will harm our children and is scary and distressing for all and doesn't solve any problems.

I think we only do things out of bad ideas. When we get angry, we do it because we want to take over a situation that has gone out of control in some way.

I've been using the parenting cards lately, from the Natural Child Project. When a situation is out of control, I get a card, read a heart melting message, and that will help switch my thoughts.

I also try to remember that my kid learns by example. If I'm nice, he's nice. If I'm rude... Well, don't complain later.


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## gardeningmom (Mar 4, 2004)

The reason I asked if you knew where the anger comes from, I know where mine comes from. I've personally haven't seen this addressed specifically in a parenting book. Then agian I haven't read that many.

okay, my anger comes when I feel a loss of control of a situation or feel as though I have a toddler running the show







. Usually I have to step back take a deep breath and decide what to do. I remind myself I'm the mom and it is okay to be in charge. You'll have to forgive me, but I feel a bit sleep deprived and can't come up with a good example this morning. Anyway when I take charge, calm the current chaos I feel better and things to seem to be more pleasant in the home.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

See, the thing I struggle with is how to take charge without yelling. I can think of a good example where I start yelling- happened last nite







:

I'm home alone with 2 tired kiddies, it's 7:15, I've just spent ages cooking a lovely tea while the kids watched a video & argued with each other (had to intervene a few times). I asked if they could come help set the table. Melt down. NOOOO! I don't have to. I Want To Watch The video!!!! ME: 'but lovey, the video is over. the screen is blank.' AAARRGGHHHH!!! says the youngest & more melt downs ensue. The puppy has now entered the house & is doing laps around the table, the pasta needs drained, the phone rings, & the oldest is ignoring me from her room. So I give up & set the table myself, get the dog outside, pasta drained, tell whoever it is trying to sell me something on the phone to piss off, & call the children to the table. Me: 'dinner's up!' No response. I know the little buggers are hungry. 'Hello? Come to the table please' My house ain't that big- I'm loud & I know they can hear me! I walk to their rooms & say ' Please come to the ........' you get the idea. Blank stare from the children. Oldest says 'I'm busy. I have to finish my drawing' (she's just started it about 10 seconds ago) Soooooo, I yell. "Get To The Table Right Now I Have Cooked You A Lovely Dinner & By God You Are Going To Eat It!!!!!" ( I now sound like my mother. ***sigh****) And they go to the table without missing a beat- no melt downs, nothing (although they were too tired to eat much, & quite frankly I was too tired to care, staring down the barrel of a few more hours of work before crashing into bed)

Did I mention I've got PMT too?







: I just don't have enough hours in the day to do everything I need to do, & want to do........... **whinge***

Okay, that's where my yelling comes from. You're right about the feeling loss of control thing, GM....


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by aussiemum_
See, the thing I struggle with is how to take charge without yelling.
I honestly don't think it's possible... But I don't think it matters to take charge.

Quote:

Me: 'dinner's up!' No response. I know the little buggers are hungry. 'Hello? Come to the table please' My house ain't that big- I'm loud & I know they can hear me! I walk to their rooms & say ' Please come to the ........' you get the idea. Blank stare from the children. Oldest says 'I'm busy. I have to finish my drawing' (she's just started it about 10 seconds ago)
You could have said "Would you like me to bring me your meal?"

I think it's very frustrating to prepare meals to children (or anyone) when they don't care. It's also frustrating to sit children at the table when they don't want to. Why bother? Why not relax?

Leo


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

aussiemum - I think it is possible to take charge and not yell, but it takes twice as much effort and when you are tired and frazzled and just want to sit down to your meal it is probably 10 times more difficult.

As for the dinner scenario - you call them to dinner, no answer. You go to them in person and announce dinner to no avail. . .

Here is what I would have done. I would have said, "I'm putting your food in your plates and I'm sitting down to dinner with my plate. If you want warm food, come now. Otherwise your food will be here when you are ready." Then I would have sat down and ate my own food and let the kids come to the table when they were ready, but I would not re-heat their food for them.

However, if eating together is very important to you (which it is for me) then I would suggest you make it part of your daily routine. I just think kids react a lot better when there is structure. If they know exactly what to expect and when to expect it you get a whole lot less resistance.

So in my house, for example, the kids watch tv each day from 5-6 while I prepare dinner. Then they know when their show is over dinner is ready and they just come to the table. When dinner is over, they know what their chores are and they do them. There is no argument, because it's just part of the routine and they are used to it.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Thanks for the replies folks. Yes, sitting down together for dinner is a 'rule' in our house.

The main reason why I wanted them to eat is because:
1. they were very tired & needed to go to bed due to us having a big weekend. Our monday's start early & they're both in care/school all day today- i wanted them to be rested as possible

2. i find that if i let them stay up, then the next day is even worse & the whole thing gets really bad then

Routine doesn't happen much for us, altho I've always thought the kids were pretty adaptable. They've never had set meal times, or nap time, & each day can be really different depending on when I'm at work/school.... Bedtime, however is generally right around 8pm.

Normally they're pretty good about coming to the table, last nite was just tiredness I think (all of us) Other than that, I've been doing pretty okay on the yelling front lately.

dotcommama- what happens if you cook something that takes longer than 1 hour? And do tell, please, how do you start dinner at the same time every day? This is a routine that I would love to get started in our house.


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## FullCream (Mar 24, 2004)

i needed to read this. i am, and always have been a yeller. i don't yell when they're under about two. but i yell when i feel like i'm not being heard and when i feel that things are spiralling out of control. the problem is, you have to yell louder and louder over time. i don't like attacking dd (or dh) this way. but i want them to take notice of my feelings and needs.









thanks for the ideas, and for the knowledge that i'm not alone









nak


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by aussiemum_
*dotcommama- what happens if you cook something that takes longer than 1 hour? And do tell, please, how do you start dinner at the same time every day? This is a routine that I would love to get started in our house.*
If I'm cooking something that takes longer than an hour I get it prepared and ready to go on the stove/in the oven while my oldest is at school and youngest is napping - that way only the 3 yr old is in the kitchen with me and he likes to "help."

As for how I start dinner the same time every day, well it just sort of fits our day that way. My oldest gets home from school at 4, so we usually play outside for an hour, or when it's cold relax inside for an hour and then they like to watch PBS at 5. Since the two oldest are occupid watching tv I just have the little one to manage while I'm cooking and it's just the easiest time for me to get it done.

Also I don't always make the most amazing dinners either 







- if the baby is not in a good mood and won't hang out in his high chair or the back pack then dinner might be mac and cheese.


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## gardeningmom (Mar 4, 2004)

Aussiemom, I don't know how old your children are, but my oldest used to be a pill sometimes at supper. She wouldn't eat this didn't eat that blah blah blah. I provide a variety at meal times so surely there was something she could eat. She was probably 5 or 6 when I did this. I fixed dinner, called her to eat, and decided not to waste my breath. Naturally she started in on her usual complaining. Finally I told fine you don't have to eat. Next meal is breakfast. I stuck to it and that was the last time I had a problem with meal. I did the same thing with her bedroom. She wouldn't pick up and after about the millionth time of picking up barbies, I just boxed them all up and put them away for a week. I wish I had done that sooner. After that she knew I meant business and I did have to keep nagging


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Quote:

Naturally she started in on her usual complaining.
You must know my daughter, then!! She'll be 6 in July, BTW, what is this, an age or something?!?!?

I must admit I have done the pack away toys on the floor for a week thing- what am I doing wrong, because it doesn't work for us? It's either meltdown, complete with screaming in my face, I hate you, sobs & tears for maybe a half hour or so, etc. etc. Every day they ask me, sometimes every hour, when do we get our toys back, when do we get our toys back?!?!!?

Or this response: 'I don't care, mummy, I didn't like those toys anyway.'







(me thinks the children have too much stuff!







: )

I try so hard to respond to all of this with a calm approach. Sometimes I have to send them to their rooms so that I can calm down, but my G-d they push my buttons!

Now with that said, this AM we got off to school & kindy just fine. Not one single drama this morning! Whew! It's just that some days I really don't understand what is going on with DD. I've never wanted to put a label on her.... but sometimes I do wonder if this is just normal behaviour or something else. She's always been such an intense kid- even at birth her eyes were just wide open & staring straight into you, KWIM? And she never stops moving, not even when watching the tele. She'll be sideways on the couch, bouncing, or jumping on pillows, or on her brother, or talking a mile a minute & watching at the same time. Come to think of it, the only time she stops talking is when she's asleep. It's hard to get her to stop talking to even eat! She's so clever at school, yet gets moved to a desk by herself because she can't stop talking if she's next to someone.....







And I can understand where the teacher is coming from, cuz I myself feel like I'm constantly being bombarded by talking...









Sorry, rambling now, it's all such a challenge, isn't it.......


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by aussiemum_
*And she never stops moving, not even when watching the tele. She'll be sideways on the couch, bouncing, or jumping on pillows, or on her brother, or talking a mile a minute & watching at the same time. Come to think of it, the only time she stops talking is when she's asleep.*
My 6 yr old ds is like this - in fact he even talks in his sleep







:


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by gardeningmom_
Finally I told fine you don't have to eat. Next meal is breakfast. I stuck to it and that was the last time I had a problem with meal.
This is just plain wrong, you don't force a person to starve.









I don't understand why parents that don't CIO their babies and breastfeed them on demand (which is something I think important they don't grow up to remember later!) end doing these typical mainstream things.

Jan Hunt wrote in the Natural Child:

"[People] either understand children are human beings who deserve to be treated like human beings - or they just don't get it."


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Hey, gardeningmom isn't forcing her children to starve! She's giving them the option to eat dinner & the children are choosing not to eat. Perhaps this isn't the best board for me to hang out on- I should just go back to lurking here. But I can't ever imagine myself in a place where I would follow my kids around waiting for them to eat their dinner. That doesn't mean I don't respect them as human beings; I want them to also understand that they are part of a family & that we all sit down together to eat & we all eat the same food (no special meals at our house, I'm afraid). But I don't force them eat everything we've cooked, they choose to eat all of it, or part of it.....


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by aussiemum_
Hey, gardeningmom isn't forcing her children to starve! She's giving them the option to eat dinner & the children are choosing not to eat.
I'm sorry, but the children chose not to eat what she wanted them to eat. I think the coercive hint is on the bit: "Next meal is breakfast." That's not nice.

Quote:

That doesn't mean I don't respect them as human beings; I want them to also understand that they are part of a family & that we all sit down together to eat & we all eat the same food (no special meals at our house, I'm afraid).
Imagine I'm your guest and I have food habits opposite to yours. What do you do? Do you force me to eat your food? Do you say "I'm sorry, but no special meals at our house".


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Leonor_
*This is just plain wrong, you don't force a person to starve.*
I think that's being a bit overdramatic. What she is saying here is this is dinner. Eat it with the family or don't eat it. They have a choice. She isn't saying they can never eat again.

Leonor, I want this thread to be a safe place for moms who are trying not to yell to come up with better ideas. If you do not like an idea suggested, and think you have a better one, by all means suggest it. But I would appreciate it if you did so without attacking the poster.

Perhaps you can offer another alternative.

Quote:

_Originally posted by Leonor_
*I think it's very frustrating to prepare meals to children (or anyone) when they don't care. It's also frustrating to sit children at the table when they don't want to. Why bother? Why not relax?*
It sounds like eating together as a family just isn't a priority for _you_. That's okay, but for some of us it is important. Please remember that every parent and family has different priorities. Personally it is important to me to have my whole family sit down together for dinner. It is special time to reconnect and share about our day.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Leonor_
*Imagine I'm your guest and I have food habits opposite to yours. What do you do? Do you force me to eat your food? Do you say "I'm sorry, but no special meals at our house".*
Leonor - again - I want this to be a safe place for people who are trying not to yell to share ideas openly. If you disagree with an idea that's fine feel free to share an alternative idea, but please do not attack the women posting here.

How do you handle a child that does not want to eat the meal prepared for the family? Please feel free to share what you would do.

My children are not special guest in the house they are everyday members. I don't have the time or money to make different meals for each member of the family every day.

I try to make food that we all like. If my child decides that today he doesn't want the meal I made, even though he ate two plates of it last week, I don't offer another alternative. However, if I have a craving for a food I know one of the other members of my family does not like I will prepare it and an alterative meal, but this is a rarity.


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## gardeningmom (Mar 4, 2004)

Leonor, I'm not starving my child.







: Sometimes you have to look at the big picture and not just the incident. There were two important issues here. One do I want to encourage my child to be demanding and ungrateful and two she wasn't showing any consideration for the family. She might of been hungry one night , but she needs to understand that we need to be grateful for what we have because there are many who go hungry everyday.


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Ok, starving was a wrong word to use, sorry... It wasn't meant as a personall attack.

But it wasn't giving a choice. If one says "eat this meal or you won't have another until tomorrow", one is withdrawing food.

What would you think for instance of a vegan in a hospital that won't have dinner because vegan meals are not on the menu?

Quote:

My children are not special guests in the house they are everyday members. I don't have the time or money to make different meals for each member of the family every day.
I think that being an everyday member is one more reason to treat our own and so special children better than a guest. An offended guest can leave and get his own food. Our children can't.

I don't have the problem with my child not eating meals because I always ask my child what and when and where does he like to eat. Lately we have been cooking together and eating at the table more. I have it easy because it's just the two of us. I realise a bigger family has bigger problems.

But maybe you could try and ask everyone in your family what do they like to eat before you cook it, and who knows, everybody comes up with a new recipe that pleases everyone?

Snacks are an alternative two. People can snack at the table with the family and snacks can be healthy.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

I understand the desire to have family time at meals, but I wonder how special and nurturing they are for children who are not wanting (or ready) to sit still, and frustrating for adults who then have to "enforce" this. Know what I mean? It seems sorta lose/lose.

We start out at the table together and when Sam is done, he's done. He can play and come back and eat at his leisure. We don't get locked into power struggles, and he doesn't have any negative connotations with sitting down to eat.

I vehemently disagree with the no more food until breakfast thing. I think using food (or lack of) as punishment or for control is a tricky place to go. I don't think it instills trust between parent and child, nor does it coincide with the core of AP--meeting your child's needs.

If they don't want to eat the dinner, it's easy enough to offer fruit, a bagel, a can of black beans, frozen chix nuggets, etc. right? That's what we do, anyway. Or a snack later.


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Thanks Monkey's Mom, you put it better than me.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Well I guess this thread has just gone completely OT, but. . .

Quote:

I think that being an everyday member is one more reason to treat our own and so special children better than a guest.
My point was a guest comes over once in a while so I can afford to humor them - my kids are here every day and I can't make a different meal for each of them every night. I don't have the time or money, nor do I think it is necessary. You are lucky it is just your dc and yourself and you can do this.

Quote:

I understand the desire to have family time at meals, but I wonder how special and nurturing they are for children who are not wanting (or ready) to sit still, and frustrating for adults who then have to "enforce" this. Know what I mean? It seems sorta lose/lose.
I can only speak from my own experienc on this one.

My kids sit with us for meals from birth. When their tiny they may be nursing in my lap or just being held by dh or me. As they get older they sit in their high chair with us for meal times. They may not be eating, they could be playing, etc. . .but they're with the family. As they get older they are just used to eating as a family and so in my house it's win/win. My kids are really sad when Dad has to work late and misses the family dinner.

It is not usually a struggle in my house, except once in a blue moon when one of the children is in an off mood so expecting your children to eat with you as a family does not always have to be a struggle.


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## FullCream (Mar 24, 2004)

with regard to meals, our home is like that of the pp.

we eat meals as a family. that's just the way it is! i plan meals so that they always include at least ONE thing that dd likes. and there is always a selection of fruit for dessert (sometimes there's something else as well, but rarely). it's not a choice of 'eat this or don't eat anything' but, 'this is what i've cooked, and there's fruit too'.

we teach table manners (which often aren't much in evidence at home, but are always impeccable when elsewhere lol!) and talk about our day. ds has just started to eat something, but even before he was actually eating, he was either being held in our laps or in his high-chair at this time of the day

occasionally we have evenings where we actually eat in front of the tv. and sometimes dh isn't home in time to eat with us. but as a general rule, evening meals are family time and that is not negotiable - the practicalities of how long children are expected to sit etc are negotiable.


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## witch's mom (Dec 8, 2003)

Well, off the food topic and back to the yelling issue . . . I've avoided this forum because I was afraid I'd come away feeling horrible because I yell too much and I was certain that a forum titled Gentle Discipline had nothing in it for me. I guess I thought all the confirmed APers wouldn't struggle with yelling--like maybe you'd never slip into such negative behavior. (I'm kinda new here, and am discovering that even though I didn't know the term AP in the past, it's the type of parenting I've embraced in many ways. Always have felt a little outside the mainstream when it comes to caring for my kids--and many other things.)

So to find that you all struggle with yelling . . . well, it's comforting somehow, knowing I'm not alone. I've seen that a lot in this thread, but I just had to say it again.

I feel terrible about yelling at my DDs. Just had a big scene with my 4-year-old DD about picking up toys. This is a common issue for us. Logically, I know what to do to make it go smoothly: Make it a game, or turn it into some happy together-time. But sometimes I'm just too impatient and I just want the girls to clean up after themselves, darn it. It starts to go bad when little DD gets distracted, I remind her, she whines and stomps, I lose it and start shouting at her the same way my dad shouted at me when I was little. It's a total power struggle. After I assert my power by yelling, she cries and looks ashamed; once I cool down, I just want her to forgive me. It feels like those terrible cycles of abuse you read about in domestic violence stories.

I do not want my children to be afraid of me. This has got to stop. Sometimes I can go weeks with no yelling; other times, it's a daily thing. We're in a bad patch right now . . . so keep the ideas coming!


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

witch's mom -







and welcome to mdc

Thanks for getting this thread back on topic!


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

I was wondering if it was easier, instead of seeing the problem of anger/yelling as a whole to try and solve simple problems step by step?


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Sorry 'bout that OT stuff, folks! I survived this AM with 3 three yr olds (one is mine), a crazy 4 month old puppy, 2 wrong number hang-ups, dog poo smeared into my shoe & a house that looks like a cyclone has hit- & I didn't yell once! Didn't even raise my voice (to my kid, I never raise my voice to my friend's kids, BTW). Deep breaths. Calm. (but I did have to sneak outside for a cigarette once







) I can do this! I can do this!


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## witch's mom (Dec 8, 2003)

Yeah, isn't it funny how I never yell at other people's kids, yet they probably annoy me even quicker than my own kids do! I've actually had that tactic work for me: asking myself how I would respond to someone else's child in the same situation. One of the biggest things I know I could be doing to help the impatience factor is if I could just stop and remember how young my kids still are, and quit expecting them to behave like adults. But it's that logic-versus-sheer-frustration thing . . .


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

aussiemum -









I had such a bad day with my three year old yesterday. He gets in these moods where he just won't leave the baby alone. He just keeps poking him in the face or pushing him over. I know it's jealously and I'm trying to spend time with just the 3 yr old whenever I can, but there is only so much time in a day. I didn't yell, which is good, but the pushing and poking isn't stopping either, so I need to find a good solution.

Any suggestions on how to handle this?

What I have been doing is when he hurts the baby I tell him that he needs to be gentle with the baby and ask him to go to his room. I tell him he can leave when he feels he is able to play more gently. He usually walks in his room and then walks back out.







: Five seconds later he'll be on top of the baby again.

By the end of the day I just told him he needed to play by himself if his room for awhile because he was not showing me he could play with his younger brother gently. This didn't feel right either because then he was really upset and crying.

I feel like putting him in time out is exactly the opposite of what he needs b/c he's doing these thing for attention, yet if I give him attention for hurting the baby then am I just encouraging it?


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## mama_o_sk (Mar 24, 2004)

Quote:

_Originally posted by witch's mom_
*Yeah, isn't it funny how I never yell at other people's kids, yet they probably annoy me even quicker than my own kids do! I've actually had that tactic work for me: asking myself how I would respond to someone else's child in the same situation. One of the biggest things I know I could be doing to help the impatience factor is if I could just stop and remember how young my kids still are, and quit expecting them to behave like adults. But it's that logic-versus-sheer-frustration thing . . .*
I also am like that...when I find that I am yelling and just generally being miserable with the girl, I usually try to convince myself to treat her like a stranger. Do you ever notice how much nicer we all are to complete strangers compared to the ones we hold nearest and dearest?

And just how do we keep the toddler off the baby??? Short of keeping my babe on me the entire waking time of my 2.5 y.o.....not always possible....I haven't a clue either. when I tell her she's hurting the baby, she'll get off of her, give her a kiss and be right back at it in 2 minutes or less.









BTW, since reading this thread....you wonderful mommas have inspired me immensely.....I've only yelled twice (this is huuuuuuge for me!!!) Thanks.


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## tinaq (Aug 26, 2002)

I love all the helpful hints. They've been truly useful for me since I've read this post. Particularly, Liz's #2 suggestion. I do believe that my ds does get reinforcement when he hears me yell or get angry, so telling myself that really has helped. Thanks for all the advice, Mamas!

Tina


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## mmgarda (Dec 30, 2002)

I am definitely going to try the positive affirmation part. I'm a HUGE yeller. My family is very loud and argumentative, so that's just how I deal with everything. I always feel really, really bad when I yell at DS and am working on stopping.

I have two helpful ideas and one question, though.

First, I have worked really hard to get DS to recognize when he's whining and to stop. When he whines at me, instead of getting upset I say, "Are you_whining_ ?" and act shocked. If he doesn't stop right away (usually does 50% of the time), then I say, "I can't understand you when you don't use your big boy voice. Can you please say that again?" It helps a lot.

Second, this morning was a rough morning - DS was up in the middle of the night, dog was barking and then DS got up early, so I was very tired. Definitely at my worst then. Anyway, he was whining and being irrational (a 2-year old? irrational??







) and I felt myself go over the edge. SO, before I really lost it, I put my hands over my eyes and said, "Sebastian, if you whine at me, I'm going to start yelling. PLEASE tell me what you need without whining." I don't know why, but it worked! I find that often when I tell him how I'm feeling, it doesn't seem to matter directly. I mean, I think it helps him learn to identify and voice feelings, but it never seems to have much bearing on the direct situation. Maybe because I was essentially giving him warning before blowing up, it worked?

Ok and third, what do you do when your child is mid-throes and can't HEAR you unless you yell? Last night was one of those awful, just-missed-it kind of nights where DS got overtired really fast (we were about 15 min behind schedule) and everything was a mess. He was fighting about everything in terms of bedtime, no matter what choices we gave him, no matter what we dropped from the routine, and nothing was working. He literally went into screaming tantrum mode, which hasn't happened in a long time. I wasn't angry at him, but couldn't get him to listen to me. I was working hard to give him some choices so he could regain a measure of control over the situation, but he couldn't hear me over his own crying and wouldn't be comforted. I finally held his shoulders, got on the same level as him and basically yelled. Not in anger, but just so he could hear me. It didn't work. I don't know what to do in these situations. Finally, DH and I just turned of the light, said goodnight and walked out. DS jumped out of bed and came after us, saying he was ready for story-time (which was what we were trying to get to). The drastic measure worked, but it didn't feel good. At least he calmed down enough to take some deep breaths (we encourage this often) and get it under control, but I hate that it got there anyway. Help?







:


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

I am probably the worst person to give advice in a GD forum, TBH. I stuggle with being gentle every day of my life, & some days I fail miserably. threats have far too big a place in our 'discipline' repertoire. But I'll try & give a few ideas anyway..... take 'em, leave'em, modify 'em, tell your girlfriends what a shocking thing ya read on MDC today.......









mmgarda- the situation you described with having to yell to get your tantruming little one to hear you- here's how i'd have handled it, for better or worse. When my kids scream in my face, out of control, I say to them in a normal voice, ' I have something important to say to you. I am putting you on your bed until you stop screaming & are ready to listen to me. You can come out as soon as you are ready to listen.' And I put them in their room & shut the door. (told ya I'm a hard-nosed......... you know. Oh & our half-finished doors don't have any latches, so they can just push it open whenever) I try & do that very, very calmly. But it doesn't take long for them to pop their little heads out the door & they come & want to know what it is I've got to say. I actually think kids hear you, even when they are having a melt-down. In your little one's case, I might say, bedtime is at 8 o'clock. If you don't let us help you get ready for bed on time without screaming, then I'm afraid we won't have time to read a book. And then I stick to it, if time runs out. Even if they scream at me for not having a story. I just say, we've missed it tonite, we'll try again in the morning to read a story. And if the kids are way over-tired, we'll just put their jammies on, doing it for them if we have to & it's lights out (i might lay down next to them for a bit too, just to get them calmed down) Doesn't matter about brushing teeth or having a bath, one night won't hurt them, IMO.

dotcommama, I think I was the worst parent in the world when my two were 3 & 1. That's a hard age combo, IMO. We had a real problem with the older child biting the baby, very badly, almost every day. I won't tell you what I did, because it wasn't the right thing to do, & I'm pretty sure it would be a useless piece of bad advice to anyone who posts on these boards. (but it did work) Have you thought about setting a time limit where your 3 yr old must stay in his room after he's been rough with the baby? Like 5 minutes or so, because it seems to me that he's not taking you seriously about the not hurting his little brother (3 boys, right? I can't see your sig line!) And I would probably say to him 'if you are rough again after this 5 minutes, you will be right back in your room again for 5 minutes again' You could possibly try the sitting down time out, on a chair, but for a shorter period, say 1 or 2 minutes. A friend of mine calls this 'going to the thinking chair' for her 4 boys. I must say I had real problems with trying to actually get my kids to even stay on the chair, & they do tend to dish out verbal abuse at mama from the 'thinking chair'. I just walk into a different room & usually they'll stop. But we often end up with many things to discuss at the end of thinking time ie: how to speak nicely, how can we make better choices before going to the thinking chair, how we need to be gentle, how it hurts mama's feelings to be called a doo-doo-bum-bum head, etc. etc. So I don't really know how well this actually works......







:

Quote:

I feel like putting him in time out is exactly the opposite of what he needs b/c he's doing these thing for attention, yet if I give him attention for hurting the baby then am I just encouraging it?
It's so tough, isn't it? So blummin' tough. JMHO, but I think that time out is exactly what he needs when he's being rough. the trick is, you've got to make sure & give him heaps of attention when he's NOT being rough. Easier said than done, I know. And it's hard to be 3 & have to share your mama. But, IMO, he's also got to understand that he's a part of the family, just the same as everybody else, & we all have to make adjustments & give in a bit when we're in a family. I've always taken the approach that the injured child gets all the attention first, while the 'guilty party' has to sit & wait a minute to be 'disciplined'. I even do this when my kids hurt other people's kids, I'll say ' You wait right there! I'm making sure Suzy's okay, & then I will speak to you about your behaviour'. Just my approach, but I must say my kids are pretty good about not hurting others (outside the family, that is







: ) No, they're pretty good towards each other these days, I take that back.

I'll stop rambling now & make a second disclaimer here: I'm not very good at this GD stuff, I haven't done much reading on it, only a few books probably. I learn a fair bit from our positive parenting programm here in Aus, & good ol' trial & error. This is just what works or doesn't work for us, some of the time. And my little darlings are certainly not perfectly behaved angels. Not even close. :LOL


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Thanks aussiemum - I appreciate your input. You don't need to put a disclaimer







I am by no mean a GD expert. I've read lots of books about GD and it all makes plenty of sense in writing, but making it work in a practical situation is where I have a problem.

Like time out for instance. I don't have a problem with giving an official time out - go sit in your room/a chair for x minutes of time. In theory it works. In books little Johnny goes and sits in his chair and then comes out smiling after his allotted time is up.

When I try to put my three year old in time out he will not sit in a chair, no way, no how - not unless I held him there and then that wouldn't seem so gentle. So I've tried just putting him in his room, but then he just keeps coming back out and I just have to keep putting him back - etc. . . it becomes a game to him. The only other option I have is to hold the door closed and again, that just doesn't seem very gentle. And just results in me holding the door and ds on the other side screaming and pulling at the door. And I realize I accomplished nothing by this. He didn't calm down; he didn't realize that hitting his brother is wrong.

So what does that leave me with. I've tried the Siblings without Rivalry suggestion to simply make a big fuss over the baby who is hurt and ignore the hurter - but that hasn't seemed to make a big impression with him.

And then there is all the talk of using natural consequences, but what the heck is the natural consequence of hitting someone?

<sigh>I guess I just get frustrated with my choices when it seems like nothing works.

I so agree with you Aussiemom that there needs to be some consequence to hitting or hurting the baby because it's not okay I'm just not sure what will work and still be gentle.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Dot,

I wonder if you shift your perspective a little it would help your situation? Instead of trying to *change* his behavior, what if you set out to *teach him* about his behavior?

He's hitting the baby, and obviously you want him to stop! But, it is nearly impossible to control someone (esp. a 3 yr. old). So, could you control the situation instead? Make sure he doesn't have an opportunity to be near the baby without total supervision. And, when he hits (and he will, b/c this is a normal thing), you use it as an opportunity to tell him, "Hitting the baby HURTS the baby! May I show you how to GENTLY touch the baby?" And if he is willing, you show him; if he resists, you can keep the offer open: "OK, you dont' want to touch the baby gently right now? That's fine--let me know when you want to and I will be happy to show you how!"

This quote from the forum guidelines always helps me to mindful of my role as a teacher and not as a controller. Anyway, it is stated better than I could put it:









"Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems."


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Okay, I'm going to be a smartie-pants here (& I wonder where the children get it from







: ). Flat out honest statement. The forum guidelines are a little too *fluffy* for me. I find that my reality never seems to match up to what it's supposed to be according to 'a book'. I mean, aren't you controlling children's natural tendencies by guiding them & helping them learn about limits? If dotcommama's 3 yr old wants his mum to himself, right now, without the baby there, what to do??? You have to 'control' that tendency to not want to share. (i think)

Quote:

When I try to put my three year old in time out he will not sit in a chair, no way, no how - not unless I held him there and then that wouldn't seem so gentle.
dotcommama, IKWYM. 'The books' never seem to cover this particular problem. I seem to end up yelling at that point when we are having this battle........ & I've got absolutely no clue how to deal with that. I think the Sears' had naturally obedient children sometimes, I really do.

Quote:

Make sure he doesn't have an opportunity to be near the baby without total supervision.
I'm not picking on you Monkeys Mom, but this is way easier said than done, especially with 2 older children & a mobile baby. You end up spending your whole day (days, weeks, months....) feeling like you're training at the police academy. IMO (from trying that with only 2 kids).


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

monkey's mom - you are probably completely correct in telling me I should watch my two youngest 100% of the time when they are together and prevent the older child from ever having the opportunity to hit/push/knock down the little one. I just have no idea how I would be able to do this and get dinner made, do the laundry, make the beds. . . I think you get the idea







Truthfully we have such a small house that my kids are never out of my visual range, but even if they are playing at my feet while I'm cutting up veggies the three year old has plenty of time to hit the baby if he suddenly feels like it.

I'm not saying this as a way to knock your idea and I like what you said here:

Quote:

Instead of trying to *change* his behavior, what if you set out to *teach him* about his behavior?
I think that is a good way to look at it. Dh and I do stress being gentle with the baby. He knows for example that patting the baby's head gently is great, while smacking his head is not okay. Holding the baby's hand is nice, pulling his arm isn't. I think you get the idea.

But there are those moments when I turn my back and boom the baby gets hit in the head with a block.

My question is what to do then?

We definitely say, "That hurts the baby. We use are gentle hands to touch the baby, go to your room until you can play gently," but it seems like it isn't enough when you've hurt someone to just be told it isn't nice.

I'm pretty sure my three year old knows it's not nice in the first place - kwim. He's had a baby brother now for 9 months - he knows what is nice and what isn't. I'm not saying he can necessarily always stop himself from an impulse to hit, but he knows he's made a mistake. Is it enough then to just say we don't hit our brother with a block we touch him with our gentle hands like this? Because that is the moment I feel there should be some sort of punishment - maybe that's not the right work - how about consequence to his misbehavior.

aussiemum

Quote:

I think the Sears' had naturally obedient children sometimes, I really do.
:LOL Maybe that's it!


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Dotcommama, I know you can't be on them 100% of the time, but I was thinking more of focusing on prevention than dealing with the aftermath, know what I mean? Like if you're making dinner, you could put the baby in the kitchen with you and the baby gate up to keep the others out. Or, use a backpack to carry the baby in while you do laundry/chores. Or set the older ones up with a game in one of their bed rooms and babygate the door (if they are down with that, of course! Maybe make it into a 'secret clubhouse' or something silly. ) And just explain, "I'm keeping Baby here/you there so we don't have any hitting."

Is the son who is hitting old enough to help problem solve with you about this? That might be interesting.

I do think it will pass in its own time and you just keep explaining over and over again. I understand your desire to something 'more.' But, it seems like you have already been using punishment/consequences without effect.

Half the battle for me is really changing my outlook on the situation. The more I try to punish or control the more I want to yell and frankly, hit. Because, I'm not getting 'my way' with the consequences I'm trying, I feel the need to make them 'more.' If I step back, and look at his behavior as a natural stage which I need to teach him about (good or bad!), I find *I* am more successful in keeping calm.

Anyway, for whatever that's worth!


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

Thank you for this post!!!!!!

I've been really struggling w/ my own anger lately. My 21 month old DD is going through a rough phase (for me anyway







: ). She's very prone to meltdowns right now and she wants to do pretty much everything on her own. She wants to be independant....but dosen't want me out of her sight. Ugh! I will try the postive self talk thing.


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## mmgarda (Dec 30, 2002)

Hey ladies,

Just wanted to add my own thanks as well. DS is going through a rough phase - I think he's just caught on to the fact that he has very little real control over his life - and it's been tough. However, having him yell at me when he's frustrated or not hearing what he wants to hear has really, really opened my eyes.









I think that we've always been very good at offering him choices so that he does have some control, but we're really, really conscious about it now. Also, I've been making an effort - every time I feel like yelling, I stop and _lower_ my voice instead. It seems to help diffuse the situation. And finally, we've started really trying to verbally identify emotions. "You seem really sad right now." or "I'm feeling really frustrated because you are not listening to me." That's helping, too.

But most, the support here has been great! Thank you all for your ideas and community!!


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## momea (Nov 22, 2001)

sometimes the knowledge of a little secret chocolate stash has helped me through a marathon day


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by momea_
*sometimes the knowledge of a little secret chocolate stash has helped me through a marathon day







*








Maybe that's why I've made it through the month without yelling - cadbury mini-eggs mmmmmmm


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

I'm just bumping up this thread because I feel I need help being calm today. I've been so good about not yelling. I really have not yelled since I started this thread weeks ago.

However, today - I feel like I'm going to lose it!









I'm trying self talk - I'm trying to breath deeply - I still feel like I just want to yell.

I know it's just a bad day. We're stuck inside because it's raining. My littlest just started to walk and is into everything. My middle child doesn't like the baby walking around and is spending his time either laying in front of the younger child to block him or knocking him over and my oldest has not stopped whining and/or complaining since he woke up.

I can't even look forward to dh coming home and giving me a much needed break because we've got to eat dinner in a rush and then he's taking my oldest to karate. Dinner, of course, was going to be cooked on the grill - which should be really fun in the rain. - Boy I should really check the weather before I make my meal plans for the week!

So please if you have any advice to keep myself from blowing up and screaming at my kids, who I know are just being kids, I'd love to hear it!

Thank you for letting me vent. I feel better already


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## witch's mom (Dec 8, 2003)

I've SO been there. Is it too cold to take the kids out in the rain and let them stomp in puddles, stick their tongues out and just generally live in the moment and the season? Sometimes a change of scenery can do wonders, and I know with my DDs, a little water can go a long way toward improving their outlook. We've had many a grouchy rainy day cheered by just getting out in it and saying "we won't melt." And I'm always comforted by seeing them having so much fun. Then we come in and take a hot bath or sit by the fire.

For me, exercise always helps. Maybe play gym class and get everybody doing jumping jacks and sit ups. Work off some energy and get a big laugh out of the baby at the same time.

Hang in there. Sending good vibes . . .


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Thank you witch's mom you are right I should have just taken them out in the rain and let them splash and get all their crazy energy out! Next time I'll give that a try.

I have to say as I vented in my last post I realized, aside from the baby walking, that the issues I was facing were pretty much the same old stuff it was just I felt frazzled because I was also trying to clean the house and get dinner ready early. So I was feeling overwhelmed and my temper was short. By writing it out earlier it really made me think. I mean it wasn't my children's fault that I was short tempered and I have no right to yell at them for behaving like their normally rambunctious selves.

Luckily it was 5pm and in my house that's tv time. So the big kids quieted down, the baby could play happily uninterrupted and I got dinner ready and the kitchen cleaned and I feel much more calm now.

It's nearing bed time and I made it through this crappy day without losing it!


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## Fianna (Sep 4, 2003)

Thank you so much for this thread! I was reading through my tears. I HATE yelling. And I do it so often. It hurts my heart. I yelled at my 23-month-old today and I don't think I have ever felt lower.

I am going to use the positive internal dialogue! I know I have that horrible internal "I'm about to blow a gasket" dialogue running through my head before I lose it. So it makes so much sense that I can change what I'm telling myself. I know I can do this!

My stress level has built very high over the last few days, but unfortunately that isn't going to change any time soon, so I've got to find a way to get my yelling under control. And you know the worst part of it? Every time I yell one of the first things I think about is to wonder if my oldest is thinking that her dad is a better parent. See, my dh and I are in a very bad marriage. And he uses the kids, trying to pull them toward him and away from me. And I know he asks my girls if I ever yell at them or get mad at them. So I feel like I'm in some sort of sick competition with him. How horrible is that?

But regardless of "the jerk", I want to stop yelling for me and my girls. I hate to yell. My mother didn't yell at me, and I don't want to yell at my girls.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Fianna, that's a bit scary, your hubby quizzing the kids about how much you yell....







Hmmmm....... sorry, don't mean to be gloomy, but that sort of thing would make me take a good look at the situation. FWIW. It's so hard to stay calm when things are bad in a marriage, my own is a lot like a rollercoaster ride- sometimes it's very good, sometimes it's very bad. A big hug to you. (what have they done with all the smilies!!!







)

Dotcommama, you are doing so well on the yelling front- an inspiration. I wish I could say I have been the picture of calmness the last few weeks- it has been so hectic with uni that I haven't had much time to spend with the kids. It will all be okay after this afternoon, when I finally give this presentation. I'm noit necessarily yelling, just .... tense. PMT's not helping either. Oh well, I'll just keep trying.

Gotta run, life is too crazy.........


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Just wanted to say thanks for the thread and all the suggestions. I yell occasionally, and want to stop. These suggestions are very helpful.


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## kyle98sean02 (Mar 28, 2003)

I also am struggling with yelling. I find myself doing it more and more and now the baby does it to and I know where he is picking it up from







I am definately trying some of the mentioned techniques and I dont feel quite so horrible knowing I'm not the only one. I dont mean it makes me feel better about screaming, but you know what I mean....


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

I've been pretty good with the yelling lately, despite a lot of stress at uni (I really hate how outside stress effects the home side of things







). BUT, this morning I overslept & unfortunately ended up yelling at DD after telling her for the oh, fourth or fifth time, to please get her bag ready for school. How do I get them (her) to listen BEFORE I loose the plot & yell???? 'cuz she just looks at me like 'whatever, why didn't you just ask?' Yet 1 minute before I'm down at her level, saying 'Lovey I'm running late, please go get your school bag & put it by the back door'. Not too many requests, simple instructions, speaking to her looking in her eyes, calmly & quietly........... & then she just walks away back to the *^*&^# TV & ignores me.............. Yes, the TV did get turned off straight away, but I'm not sure that helps her listening skills anyway. And then I was so busy getting my shit together that I forgot to say sorry for yelling to her........







Ah well....... some days are better than others...........
............


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

I have no answer for you just a great big









I really hate having to say things more than once - especially when I'm in a hurry or stressed.

Sometimes if I say it once, I'll help them along the second time. So for example you say, "Go get your bag ready for school." You child keeps watching tv. Get the bag and hand it to the child and repeat, "Get the bag ready for school."

If she still ignores you. . .

Well I'll give you a suggestion of something I'm trying out with my kids that seems to be working. If I need them to do something I have them repeat my request back to me a few times.

Here is an example:

*Me (to Trevor):* "Get your bag ready for school. Trevor what are you going to do for me?"
*Trevor:* "Get my bag ready for school."
*Me:* "One more time?"
*Trevor:* "I'm going to get my bag ready for school."
*Me:* "Okay fantastic get going!"

Having them repeat the instruction seems to help. First it helps because I know he's heard me and I know he understand what I want him to do. And somehow the act of repeating the request seems to help get my child to comply (but don't ask my why it works







)


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

WRT getting ready to leave the house. Perhaps you could simply discuss a new strategy. Repeated requests tend to be viewed by most children as nagging and go in one ear and out the other. A strategy that I've heard works really well is the following: Discuss a specific time the child needs to be ready. Say you have to leave for school at 7am. Then the child should be ready at least five minutes before. If the child cannot read a clock yet, maybe a timer could be used. I would personally ban tv until the child's completely ready to go and there's time to spare. KWIM? Anyway, make sure the child knows everything s/he has to do to get ready and lay things out the night before if necessary. After that, wake your child in the morning and go about your own business. If you also set a specific time for breakfast, you can put it on the table at that time but don't call. IF the child shows up, s/he gets breakfast. If not, s/he can take something portable to school. At five minutes to the times s/he needs to be ready, you can give a 5 min warning. When it's time to go, it's time to go. If the child isn't ready, throw whatever is needed into the car and drive him/her to school (or take him/her to the bus stop or whatever). At that point, natural consequences take over. If s/he's still in jammies, s/he'll have to change in the car. If s/he hasn't had breakfast, s/he'll have to eat on the run. If s/he forgets his/her school bag and/or homework, oh well. No going back and picking it up for him/her no matter what the consequences at school. It shouldn't take long for the child to start taking responsiblity for his/her own morning routine. This actually worked on me when I was a kid (and living w/ my grandparents for awhile). I was a big dawdler in the morning and my mom nagged and nagged. When my grandparents tried the above situation, I was ready on time every time w/o a word from them.


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

I wanted to add that it may be useful w/ some kids to make a big chart w/ them listing all the things they need to do in order to be ready to leave the house in the morning for school. They can write it out, draw pics, make a collage from cut out pics, etc. The chart can be posted in their room or outside the bathroom or something.


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## oneotamama (Apr 23, 2004)

First of all, I'm so glad I ran across this thread. I just read a thread about people who consider themselves practicing AP, but then do some things that aren't really AP-like. I thought, "Wow, what a tough thing to practice and do all of those things right." Now I know that everyone slips once in awhile (or more than once in awhile!!) It's rough being at home with the kids all day sometimes. DH works 15 hour days a lot of the time and it's hard living in MN when it's not summer! I knew I had a problem when I found myself hoarse one day from hollering so much. I have also noticed that when I get mad and yell, my 2 year old behaves Worse than before. My mood can drastically improve his behavior. The day when DS said to DH, "Knock it off," and my DH asked where he'd heard that from was a real eye opener as well. Ouch! We really realize what we're doing when kids become verbal. Now I try to be better and roll with things better. Sometimes I also keep myself in check by pretending that someone else is in the house watching me. Maybe that's weird, but I know I wouldn't holler at DS if anyone else was around....hmm...


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Wow, thanks for the great suggestions folks! Quickly replying, you are so right about the TV- that AM I slept in as DH left for work early. He lets them watch TV before he heads off, & then they just tend to keep watching while I sleep thru everything (had a few late nites with Uni last week, so I'm just shattered right now). So that one is my issue to deal with, not the kids, I guess. I'm going to try the repeating back thing you suggested dotcommama, see how it goes & think about a chart. DD can read now, so we may be able to use words + symbols as well.

DS copped it yesterday too, BTW.







I could've rung his neck.... well, not quite, but...... I was in the middle of a phone call with the draftsman who's doing a reno plan for the back end of our house. DS (bless 'im) lets the puppy inside, who absolutely terrorises my friend's twins- sends them into screams of terror & high pitched shrieks & climbing up the furniture. Of course the dog gets excited & starts whissing all over the floor & swiping her tail thru it, flicking dog wee around the living room, etc. etc....... All while I'm trying to quickly get off the phone & set an appt to go discuss the plans..... which of course means trying to figure out my schedule, when to pick up kids from school/kindy, when does DH teach & when can he get away.... You know, one of those scenes where you have to decide in 1.2 seconds what you need to do, with 3 screaming 3 yr olds & a wissing dog hanging off you. Holy shit- what chaos!!!! So, I kinda read DS the riot act, mostly because he knows (without a doubt) how scared the twinnies are of the dog & he still did it anyway. On purpose, given his smirky reaction afterwards...... So I yelled. Gotta work out how to stay calm under these sorts of circumstances- happens more often than not in my life..... But we're all going away for the weekend, so.... deep breath...... it will all be okay. And thanks for the tips again. Keep 'em comin' cuz I surely need 'em.


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## Pigpen (Dec 12, 2002)

I'm going to try to read all the replies later...I just wanted to chime in with what I'm trying lately. 2 things... One is I ask myself if I am really upset with the kids or is it other things happening in my life. Sometimes it's just that the floor is dirty, that can set me off, and it's not the kids at all. The other is totally silly but, I resort to this with myself sometimes. Would I want to be videotaped yelling at my kids, nope, I'd hate to see myself when I'm doing that. But esentially, your trying to see yourself as your kids see you. Do I want them to see me as a raving lunatic, or a kind and patient mom? I'm really struggling with this right now because I have a newborn and a 3 and 5 year old. I do not want to discipline them the way I was but sometimes I see myself doing exactly that. It's disheartening, but for thier sake, I keep trying.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *omegamama*
I'm really struggling with this right now because I have a newborn and a 3 and 5 year old.

I only wanted to say







. I had a newborn, 3 and 5 year old not so long ago and was so very overwhelmed and short tempered. Now my children are 6, almost 4 and 10 months and life has really calmed down. Things are running smoothly again and I am much better able to control my temper since I don't feel like the whole house is crazy and out of control.


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## Bearsmama (Aug 10, 2002)

Hi-I keep this thread in my in-box to remind me to check it and get wisdom and insiight into raising my DS without yelling and keeping my anger in check.

I haven't lost it in quite some time, but tonight, my anger monster reared its ugly head tonight. Ugh! It is a battle, isn't it??


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## Fianna (Sep 4, 2003)

It is a battle, isn't it. But I have been using the positive inner dialogue and it has helped me SO much! I can't tell you how many explosive (or just ugly) comments it helped me avoid in the last few days. For instance, I've had major computer problems in the last few days, which is more than an inconvenience for me since I work from home using my computer. My older dd came into the room to ask me to do something for her just as my computer began crashing for the 50th time in 2 hrs, and I was just about to bite her little head off, when I thought to myself, This isn't her fault. The computer is going to be a PITA no matter what, so just let it go. Don't take it out on her. And it worked! And I really think it is a habit. The more I force myself to think about what I'm about to say, the easier it is. I've felt like a much better mom the last couple of days. Let's just hope I can keep this up!


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Yes, yes, yes to positive inner dialogue! I think you are so right Fianna, sometimes I just get caught in this pattern of reacting without thinking to something the kids have done. It's like I'm on autopilot or something. My latest thoughts on no-yelling-- I need to think of ways to cope when DD is totally out of control & doing stuff just to annoy the shit out of me- yes, I'm sure she does this- she'll actually admit it when she calms down. It makes me so sad sometimes; I'd love to have a non-adversarial relationship with my daughter........


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## halah (Apr 28, 2002)

Like many others who have written, I'm so glad this thread exists. GD is one of my failings as a parent who aspires to be AP, and I'm trying very hard to change--this thread gives me encouragement and support.

One of the only things I have going for me is that my eldest is only 3 and a half, and I have the opportunity to make Yelling Mom a hazy and distant memory for him, and hopefully not leave much of a dent in Baby's consciousness.

It's hard though. I was brought up to believe yelling is something someone does who cares about you. But I think it's ugly and damaging to a child's soul. So I am very keen to un-train myself of this force of habit.

I tried the talking to myself thing and it worked reasonably well. The only time I snapped was [predictably during dinner preparation] when ds wanted to know the full possible consequences in gory detail of what COULD happen if he pulled on me and the backpacked baby while I was using the sharpest knife in the house, ending as usual with "And will you die?" This newfound fascination of his on death, and how many ways one can "get dead" is totally disturbing to me, and as usual when I am at a loss and fearing I will contribute in some way to his mental deformation, I cope by shouting at him. Brilliant, aren't I?


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## mmgarda (Dec 30, 2002)

This thread is getting really long, so I started a new one!

Keeping Your Own Anger in Check pt. 2

I started it with a GOOD situation!!


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## Tonya (May 21, 2004)

This is exactly what I need right now. I've been trying to deal with being angry and yelling all the time. I don't want to yell at my ds, but I just get so frusterated. I can't wait to read more and I look forward to developing lasting friendships.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Tonya


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

Welcome, Tonya!


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Bumping.

Pat


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