# My daughter stole my savings and was taking out my wages for a year!!



## brenlo3 (Apr 10, 2006)

My daughter took out a second ATM card for my account (without me knowing) and wiped out my life savings, took out my salary , leaving just enough to cover my cheques , racked up my credit card to capacity, and took out a major creditcard and racked it up, crashed her grandfathers new car and stole items from my sister and nephew and sold them including a video camara. I'm a single mother and have given my life to her, never went out , worked and lived for her, taught her to be a good person and I just can't beleive this has happened.

I'm numb, I can't feel, I'm destroyed and violated and torn!!She left to live on her own (now I know I was paying for that), and fought with her friend and needed to come back home (this is after I found all of this out)., now she's here and if I ask her any questions she says "I feel like I'm being interrogated." She is not sorry , isn't paying me back and doesn't feel remorseful. I feel like I can't trust her and don't ask her anything because I know she will tell me a lie.

She is cutting herself and I think it's her way of scaring me and controlling me. (if I punish her for her actions she'll hurt herself.)









I don't know what to do to make her take responsibility for what she has done to me. I have nothing, I saved for 15 years and now I have nothing!!
I feel heart broken someone I love so much could do this to me.

Please tell me what I need to do ? I can't see the forest through the trees and I'm scared she'll hurt herself!!

Sincerely, brenlo3's sister

brenlo3 told me about you mamas and suggested I post here.







:


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

wow.

you need someone alot smarter than me to help with this situation....

But I couldn't read this and say nothing.....

I hope you find the answers you are looking for, but you might want to give time frames for when these things happened and the ages your daughter was when they happened....

Good Luck


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I have no idea so take this with a grain of salt, but personally I would seriously consider calling the police and having her charged. That is freaking crazy.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

First off how did she get the ATM card? here I have to go in and ask for and sign for one. Second How is it that your bank statements never showed what was happening? We get a savings account summery every month. Not that we have anything in it but it is there.

If she got the card thru false means then it may be possible to pursue that with the bank since someone messed up letting her have that card. Unless of course her name was on the account. If it wasnt she illegally got that card.


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## Bartock (Feb 2, 2006)

Ya, sorry this has happened to you, but how did she get away with this for so long? How old is she? I don't mean to sound harsh either but, I would charge her IMO she will not learn her lesson unless charged, she will do it again, she committed fraud and that is illegal. This sounds like a case for some tough love, sorry.


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## grypx831 (May 22, 2005)

I would call the police and press charges.


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## Amber Lion (Sep 22, 2006)

This sounds like it is beyond your capacity to deal with on your own. Get the police involved. Also, if she is cutting herself she needs help, NOW! Don't let her play it off and don't you play it off either. Is there a therapist you can take her to (make her go to)?








Momma, I'm so sorry your daughter has done this to you. I agree, this is definitely a time for tough love.


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

I think this is something bigger than you can deal with. The cutting and serious theft issues are not something you can "parent" out of her. I think you need professionals to help her. And calling the police may be the first step in getting her the help she needs. You probably at this point do not have the funds to cover it yourself so going the route of courts, etc. may be her only hope.


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## gnutter (Jan 5, 2006)

some advice from a former bad daughter. You HAVE to get a judgement of some sort against her. Civil court if need be-then go to your bank and demand action. If she says she is being interrogated-then you tell her yes it is interrogation-You deserve to know where your retirement went. I was a self cetered young adult and i still never did anything quite that bad. This sounds just crushing. Gather your bank statements-get the atm card from her change your accoutns to a new bank and file a report with the police. I went through a sorta similar thing once with a former friend and instead of jail the dA told me she would get probation as long as she agreed to payments through the court. Of course she took off and I never got anything back-but the courts will give a first timer the chance to pay back the stolen money. So you don't have to beat yourself up about her going to jail.


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## egarcia76 (Aug 1, 2006)

Sounds like dp's 18 yo son. He's done all this & more ... pawned our electronics, the laptop I'm typing on which the police recovered from a pawnshop, etc.

DP devoted her life to him. I entered the picture when he was 12, & he steadily got worse. We invested so much time & $ & love into him and paid for tons of counseling, therapy, antidepressants, etc. Right now he's in jail (again) facing 3-5 yrs in prison for theft & probation violation. He's done prior time for stealing our credit card. He's been doing this kind of stuff for years. He's also a drug addict.

Your situation needs more than tough love. Trust me-- from someone who's btdt: get the police involved. Your dd needs to face serious consequences. And if she's like my stepson, she STILL won't shape up. Some people just need to grow up a lot before learning. I have an awful feeling dp's son will be about 35 before he matures. He's a suburban kid brought up in an extremely loving home w/a supportive family who has a major victim mentality.

Tangent -- back to you: Call the police. And do not tolerate any of this behavior. It will only worsen if you do not act & enforce some sort of legal recourse. Even if she slips up, she'll know you're serious about not being taken advantage of. Good luck.


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## JJ'sMom (Mar 11, 2005)

I agree with all of the advice given here. Take it to the police and the bank.

This next part is all IMHO -







:

She is not going to be responsible and it will likely get worse. (My friend's daughter actually beat her up eventually, after breaking into her home and stealing from her.) Please don't let it get any further. Show her you love her by making it clear that this is not acceptable and that you respect yourself and family. All people want boundaries. Give her what she is asking for.

Hey, you've done a really tough thing already by posting here and asking for help.

Julia


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## brenlo3 (Apr 10, 2006)

Thank you all for your advice and help. I just CAN'T call the police, I may be so wrong but I just CAN'T. Any other options?







:


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## Bartock (Feb 2, 2006)

I know as a mother you don't want to call the police, but by not calling them, you are giving her the message that it is okay to act like this and keep on doing it. And this is going to sound bad, but it's the truth and the truth hurts, if she did this kinda stuff to the wrong person, the could be serious or permanant consequences to pay, know what I mean?


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

*


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brenlo3* 
Thank you all for your advice and help. I just CAN'T call the police, I may be so wrong but I just CAN'T. Any other options?







:

Can you come up with a way for her to fix the situation? Like, a *hard* way to *really* fix the situation? And if she does not follow thru, then you call the police?


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## brenlo3 (Apr 10, 2006)

thismama, yes maybe, but what?







My mail would go missing and I'd never receive my bills, so when all this happened we put a lock on the mailbox and now she's got the key and I have to wonder why she needs to get the mail?







:


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brenlo3* 
thismama, yes maybe, but what?







My mail would go missing and I'd never receive my bills, so when all this happened we put a lock on the mailbox and now she's got the key and I have to wonder why she needs to get the mail?







:

Take away the key! Why does she have the key? That is crazy.

She needs to get a job and start paying you back. She needs to pay you a LOT of her paycheque, especially if she is living with you and not paying rent anywhere. Not just a little bit.

This is a BIG FREAKING DEAL. It sounds like she is not treating it that way, and you are not making her. She ruined your life savings! That is nuts.

Make an agreement up, get her to sign it. If she doesn't follow thru, call the cops. And there you have your evidence.


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## Bartock (Feb 2, 2006)

How old is she? And waiting to call the cops till after she does not pay you back, because that's probably what will happen, it might be to late to get them involved.


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## Thorey (Aug 20, 2005)

why can't you call the police? I don't understand. You must feel responsible in some way. It seems like masochism to me- 15 years of savings stolen from you by your own daughter- wow- that must be excruciating. I only have a two year old and am trying not to judge or assume I know how to fix it. But still I don't think you should let her get away with that. Get some balls- she'll respect you more in the end. Maybe she'll learn a hard lesson.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemy2ds* 
How old is she? And waiting to call the cops till after she does not pay you back, because that's probably what will happen, it might be to late to get them involved.

Oh yeah, I didn't think of that.

My bet is she won't pay you back. She is acting like she is the victim in this! Moaning about being 'interrogated.' That is nuts.

What is the whole story? Is there something we are missing? Did she have an addiction, owe someone a gambling debt? Why did she do this, do you know? What was your relationship like before?


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## Bartock (Feb 2, 2006)

Thorey said:


> Get some balls- QUOTE] That was uncalled for
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

It sounds to me like she is either on drugs or bi-polar. Have you talked to her yet? What does she have to say? How long has it been? How old is she?


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Please do not allow one wayward girl to ruin your future! Maybe dfacs could take her off your hands. Not quite the police, but it might be her last chance to show some redeeming qualities.


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

sorry but i too think you need to get the authorities involved. she dose not sound like she'd make any sort of amends.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

The way I see it you have 2 choices get the police involved or just forget about it. You are out your savings and your daughter has gotten away with it. Is that really what you want to happen? To send her the message that no matter what she does she will get away with it? I am truly sorry you are going thru this but you have to do what is right for your daughter she needs help. Or the rest of your and her life is going to be like this.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brenlo3* 
My daughter took out a second ATM card for my account (without me knowing) and wiped out my life savings, took out my salary , leaving just enough to cover my cheques , racked up my credit card to capacity, and took out a major creditcard and racked it up, crashed her grandfathers new car and stole items from my sister and nephew and sold them including a video camara. I'm a single mother and have given my life to her, never went out , worked and lived for her, taught her to be a good person and I just can't beleive this has happened.

I'm numb, I can't feel, I'm destroyed and violated and torn!!She left to live on her own (now I know I was paying for that), and fought with her friend and needed to come back home (this is after I found all of this out)., now she's here and if I ask her any questions she says "I feel like I'm being interrogated." She is not sorry , isn't paying me back and doesn't feel remorseful. I feel like I can't trust her and don't ask her anything because I know she will tell me a lie.

She is cutting herself and I think it's her way of scaring me and controlling me. (if I punish her for her actions she'll hurt herself.)









I don't know what to do to make her take responsibility for what she has done to me. I have nothing, I saved for 15 years and now I have nothing!!
I feel heart broken someone I love so much could do this to me.

Please tell me what I need to do ? I can't see the forest through the trees and I'm scared she'll hurt herself!!

Sincerely, brenlo3's sister

brenlo3 told me about you mamas and suggested I post here.







:

I am so sorry you are going through this. I used to work on an adolescents psychiatric unit as a Registered Nurse. There were many kids who did these kinds of things. Maybe you can get her a psych eval and some therapy? It makes be think of borderline personality disorder. (of course, as a nurse I can not diagnose, and a diagnosis can't be made from that little bit of info, but others I have cared for did similar things and had that diagnosis.)

If/when she cuts herself again, you can have her admitted easily if she is under 18. It would be harder if she is over 18, but still possible. Sometimes being in a psych unit gives teens/young adults a good scare and they straighten up. They get a mandatory drug screen on admission, so you would know if drugs were to play or not. That probably isn't something too popular to say here, so if you would like to talk about it, feel free to pm me.

Gooey


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

I so understand.... your daughter is crying for help and you don't want to throw her to the wolves ... and you are so hurt you don't have the strength to think clearly or even go on. Can you go see a counselor? To help you get through your pain and disappointment? And they could also help you to strategize a plan on how best to handle your dd.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

*


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## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cherie2* 
I so understand.... your daughter is crying for help and you don't want to throw her to the wolves ... and you are so hurt you don't have the strength to think clearly or even go on. Can you go see a counselor? To help you get through your pain and disappointment? And they could also help you to strategize a plan on how best to handle your dd.









:


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## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
Do they actually have enough room in the remaining psych hospitals for teens who cut themselves? I know where I live, it has become increasingly difficult to get anyone admitted without a judge's orders, except for the few with tons of money and/or incredibly good insurance. I'm not opposed to putting people in psych hospitals when they absolutely need it (which I'm not sure is the case here, though I agree it sounds like borderline personality disorder), but I rarely bother suggesting it since it can be hard to accomplish, and even more difficult to get them to keep the individual for as long as needed (72 hours - 2 weeks is rarely enough time for effective help.)

I have an acquaintance who was hospitalized for SI (big stuff, though -- taking a Dremel tool to her leg, passing out from blood loss, etc)


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Nobody behaves like this just randomly. If I were the parent in this case, I'd really want to know WHY she's doing this stuff. Drugs? Evil boyfriend influencing her thinking? Major mental illness? If I had some idea of why she was behaving so terribly I'd have a better idea of what to do about it.


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## goosysmom (May 28, 2005)

I couldn't not read this and not say anything...I agree with the general feeling here....Someone else needs to step in and help out..whether it's police, djfs or a psych evaluation.

I had a friend in high school (too many years ago) who did the same thing to her father (single dad) and it wasn't until she did it to another family memeber that he did what really needed to be done...

I am sooo sorry you have to go through this....

On a side note about the mail...for $1, sometimes free depending on the town, you can go to your local post office and apply for a mailbox. Yeah, it can be a pain to go to the post office to get your mail but it sounds like it would be worth it here. You can have just your bills and statements sent there for banks and credit cards....that way they are somewhere safe and have the rest continued to be sent to the house such as phone, cable and such...

HUGS...and prayers


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## Bartock (Feb 2, 2006)

okay I have to use myself as an example. I was molested by my step dad for 7 yrs. I tried to kill my baby brother when I was 12







Bad I know. I hated my mom and use to think of ways to kill her too







I beat my dog, hated that dog







When I was 15 and got kicked out I went and lived with my dads cousins, I started smoking, smoking pot, drinking. I stole from them, lied to them, stole from my friends, got my ass kicked several times for that. Lied about having an abortion. When they finally kicked me out I went to foster care, I was talking about suicide with my foster brother and he thought I was joking, till I asked him to come and stab me in my sleep, that night i wrote a suicide note and taped it on my bed, I really thought he would come and stab me(glad he didn't) He went and told our foster parents and I was hauled up to the psycho ward, spent 2 weeks in there, then it finally came out what happened to me, that's when everything started to get better. Not saying this is what is happening to her, but the more I read these posts the more I realize maybe the police is not the best idea and a counselor would be better.


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## BrooklynDoula (Oct 23, 2002)

I would call the police even if not to press charges about the theft but because calling the police will help her chances of getting into a psych hospital for a bit. Call because she is hurting herself and you can not stop her from causing self harm and you are worried she will do something drastic. This should get the police to take her for at leats a 24 hour hold and then she could be transferred to a longer term facility.

Good luck.


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## my4magpies (Mar 24, 2006)

I'm really sorry you are going thru this...but if you don't do ANYTHING about the situation (whether you decide to call the police or seek psych. eval), then in a way you are sending the signal to your DD that what she is doing i OK. Treating a member of the family with anything than upmost respect is absolutely not tolerated.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
Do they actually have enough room in the remaining psych hospitals for teens who cut themselves? I know where I live, it has become increasingly difficult to get anyone admitted without a judge's orders, except for the few with tons of money and/or incredibly good insurance. I'm not opposed to putting people in psych hospitals when they absolutely need it (which I'm not sure is the case here, though I agree it sounds like borderline personality disorder), but I rarely bother suggesting it since it can be hard to accomplish, and even more difficult to get them to keep the individual for as long as needed (72 hours - 2 weeks is rarely enough time for effective help.)

In NEPA there are two hospitals that admit teens. About 95% of the kids are on medical assistance. Hardly anyone has insurance through their parents employment. Anyone who can not contract for safety (tell someone they are having thoughts of harming themselves or others or suicidal ideation) is easily admitted. Parents can have children admitted for cutting if there are fresh wounds, the kids don't have to agree to the admission. Kids can be admitted for hurting others/animals. Some are admitted for really bogus reasons (parents need a break from child and have no one else to turn to), too.

The facility that I worked in, the average admit time was 10 days for teens, and about 14 days for children. But some were in as few as 3 days, while we had others in for over 3 months. (the ones that were in for a long time were b/c we had trouble placing them, parents didn't want them, already kicked out of group homes, foster families refusing them, etc.) There are also two places in NEPA for the long term/more permanent child/adolescent psych patients.

I guess it really depends on the area in which you live if you can get inpatient services. I guess I shouldn't have assumed that. Sorry!


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## brenlo3 (Apr 10, 2006)

Well, I'm brenlo3 and my sister read the first 11 posts and didn't seemed very convinced there was a solution that she could do. So, I'm just going to fill in some blanks.

My niece is 21 yrs. old, her "friend" who moved in turned out to be her girlfriend, so now my sister is dealing with learning that her daughter was lying about that too.

So, they moved out together and the girlfriend was apparently abusive and would hit her etc.. Well, my niece did all this stealing during the time her girlfriend livid in the house.

My sister is overwhelmed and definately in distress and denial, I beleive this is a double edged sword for my sister because her daughter is all she has.

She was a devoted mother and her daughter was a great kid. I just came back home myself so I'm living in the house too. They didn't tell me all this until 1 week ago and I have my own feelings which are exactly like the rest of yours.

My dad , whos house we live in, says; your all your daughter has , and what would she do or where would she go if she couldn't come here. So, I think my sister is so confused. My niece is in College and works part time. My sister said , sheis paying the creditcard back but thats all.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

*


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

OK, she's 21? That's a whole 'nother ball game as far as I'm concerned, and a lot of this may have something to do with her being gay--she hates herself for being gay, so that's why she cuts, or maybe she stole because she was being abused, etc. Either way, she needs some serious therapy. And she just won herself no keys to anything. If she wants to rob Grandpa blind, that's his choice. But as her mom, I'd be locking everything up.


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

I'm not the best mom on earth, I struggle with gentle discipline, but I have to say, no child of mine would be living under my roof after doing all that and showing no remorse, no payback, no caring. It just wouldn't happen. If my child did those things and wanted to fix things, then sure, by all means, I'd do whatever I could to help, but lying, stealing, cutting herself, driving recklessly? She's a danger to herself and everyone around her. She's a bad influence on other kids and she's going to end up killing someone or herself. You are DOING HER A FAVOR by getting the authorities involved. If no one will take her, then call the police and press charges and tell them she's mentally unbalanced. While she's in jail, she can get the help she needs.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

People don't act the way she has for no reason. My guess is that she has some very painful past experiences that she hasn't dealt with and doesn't know how to. While I agree that she shouldn't be given a free ride and just let off the hook I think that the goal should be getting her whole.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
People don't act the way she has for no reason. My guess is that she has some very painful past experiences that she hasn't dealt with and doesn't know how to. While I agree that she shouldn't be given a free ride and just let off the hook I think that the goal should be getting her whole.









:

And never call the police if what you want is a psychiatrist. The police are not trained to be social workers. Just a few weeks ago in my town a family called the police because their 18 year old son was drunk or high and acting out. They wanted him admitted to a psych ward. He's dead. The cops shot him because he was "acting dangerous" even though he wasn't armed.

If you want a social worker, call a social worker. Not the police.


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## Lambsauce (Nov 13, 2006)

I'm sorry I don't have much of anything to offer, but I just couldn't read this and not reply









She would seriously benefit from therapy. This will not stop unless the authorities get involved, this has escalated way beyond the control of any one parent and will only continue to do so unless outside forces intervene.

Getting her therapy may help her begin to deal with what is causing all of this. What spoke most to me about her desperate need of therapy was the mention of her cutting... from personal experiences I can say that cutting is often a cry for help, that she's having serious problems dealing with what is going on in her life (being gay and having an abusive partner could have a lot to do with it), and she _wants_ help so she can learn to live her life.

That's all I can say. Good luck, I'll be keeping you in my thoughts


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

Are you sure there's no drugs involved? What did she *do* with all the money?


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

My suggestion is that you find and contact your local PFLAG chapter (http://www.pflag.org/) and your local domestic violence center. If I have the story straight, your dd was in an abusive relationship and stole from you while in that relationship.

Is she beyond this person's reach now? Is she safe? If she was in an abusive relationship she may be suffering from PTSD.

Is dd comfortable with the lesbian relationship? Are you? Does she id as lesbian now?

I'm so sorry your family is going through this.


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## Surfer Rosa (Jun 3, 2005)

I think there are two separate issues here. I think in order to deal with the financial/practical repercussions of your daughter's behaviour (paying you back, re-gaining your trust, etc.) she needs to get some therapy and deal with the root of the problem. It sounds like she has a lot to deal with: self-harm, being newly gay, etc, etc...these are big enough on their own. I'm not sure that turning her into the police is going to do anything but punish her more. I would look into admitting her into some sort of therapy program, so she can start dealing with her problems, and hopefully make it up to you some day.
I am a high school teacher and have dealt with kids that self-harm far more than I wish. There are so many different reasons for SH, and many different tacks to take, all of which depend on your child.
Hugs, mama, that is rough! Good luck.


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## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

Report it to the police. Like yesterday. Whether you do or not, your bank may take action. And if she did it to you, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that she was stealing from other people, too. If the bank or some 3rd party is the complainant rather than you, you will have NO influence on the eventual outcome.

And this young woman is NOT a child. At 21, she's an adult by any legal standard.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 







:

And never call the police if what you want is a psychiatrist. The police are not trained to be social workers. Just a few weeks ago in my town a family called the police because their 18 year old son was drunk or high and acting out. They wanted him admitted to a psych ward. He's dead. The cops shot him because he was "acting dangerous" even though he wasn't armed.

If you want a social worker, call a social worker. Not the police.

OMG! That is such a good thing to keep in mind. I am so glad you wrote that. What your d'sis will get back is a question. She should try to get back as much as possible. The problems all seem so huge and I'm not sure how she'd go about "fixing" them. I don't believe ever turning your back on your kids but there comes a limit when they need to know that while you love them and love them no matter, their choices have consequences- both good and bad. D'niece is in college and has a part-time job. Those are two very awesome things she has going for her... assuming those are true. It sounds like she has some major personal issues to work through. One of them has got to be being comfortable in her own skin- gay, straight whatever. The other is the total lack of empathy for those she hurts. That includes herself and mom. A lot of colleges have cheaper counseling. Maybe that could be an option. It sounds like all she is doing are symptoms of a much bigger problem. What is the root cause? Can it be found? Looking in from the outside, I'd say turn her in if nothing else works. But then again, I know I would never do that to my own dc. I'd say your d'sis has got to do some protecting of herself though. Get the mail key back or change it if she refuses. Get a PO Box if need be. Pull a credit report. Close down cards that dd has access to. Set up a repayment plan that is reasonable whether dd agrees to it or not...

My heart aches for your sister.


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## BrooklynDoula (Oct 23, 2002)

I do forensic psychiatry, so every day I deal with cases of people who are interacting both with mental health professional and the polcie and while calling the police to get a psychiatrist is not always the best way, for many it is the only way. A PP mentioned the difficulty of getting someone into an emergency hold in some areas, and in NYC I am sure you came imagine, space is at a premium. So, here, calling the cops to get into a hospital is good way to make sure you get a spot.

I would not say NEVER to do something based on one expereince, or story from the news. Certianly that specific case, what we know of it, is very troubling, but I also know about 100 other teens who made it safely into facilities that took them in part because when the police escort you, you go to the front of the line.

That aside, with the new information, I think chfriends is right about needing some specific help around issues of queerness and abuse.


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## ericswifey27 (Feb 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brenlo3* 
Thank you all for your advice and help. I just CAN'T call the police, I may be so wrong but I just CAN'T. Any other options?







:

I agree with pressing charges. She will think she can get away with anything (and she will!) if you do not take action. But I can imagine how hard that would be. At the very minimum, tell her she needs to find a new place to live. As in, yesterday.


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## rabrog (Dec 20, 2005)

You have to get the police involved. I don't know that this is going to come out right, but you can't look upon her as only your child now. She's an adult and has made choices. Now she needs the consequences for those choices.

What if she continues to steal and next time steals from the wrong person? They may not be so nice as to press charges against her. She could end up seriously injured or dead. I know that is blunt, but it's not so far fetched if she continues in a life of deceit. Please do your daughter a favor and turn her in to the police.

Jenn


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemy2ds* 
okay I have to use myself as an example. I was molested by my step dad for 7 yrs. I tried to kill my baby brother when I was 12







Bad I know. I hated my mom and use to think of ways to kill her too







I beat my dog, hated that dog







...

I just want to start by saying kudo's to you "ilovemy2ds" for coming out with such a personal and heartbreaking story so she could relate to someone having hard times. I saw this go un-noticed; and I want to say that I think it's mighty big and mighty brave of you to unbury your past horrors for someone else's gain.







s:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brenlo3* 
So, they moved out together and the girlfriend was apparently abusive and would hit her etc.. Well, my niece did all this stealing during the time her girlfriend livid in the house.....

I think this is a major red flag here. If I had to guess, I'd say she was probably being pushed by the girlfriend to come up with the money somehow to pay their rent; and this was her easiest avenue and she was protecting herself. She probably thought that because it was her mother she was taking from, that she'd be understood as to the reason why. I'd also have to say that her lack of remorse could be learned from her girlfriend's lack of remorse for deeply hurting HER. These are just my theories.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brenlo3* 
...My niece is in College and works part time. My sister said , sheis paying the creditcard back but thats all.

While I definitly think it's important that she be held responsible for the rest of the debt; perhaps it would be a good idea (and one where she'd see she's still loved) if it was presented to her that she could pay back the money after she's done school, in payments.

But that has to be part of a bigger plan. So here's my idea:

You do a little bit of research and find out what kind of supports are available to you for reinforcing your plan. Find a neutral setting with someone monitoring for your safety and hers (and one where she can't just run off and cut); and sit down with her face to face. My idea here would be the police station, they could bring her in, you could meet her there. Tell her calmly that you've prepared something for her to listen to, and you want her to listen through or you're walking out and pressing charges against her.

Tell her she's got two choices. She can either commit on paper to a re-payment plan that will begin as soon as she's out of school. It is to cover the entire debt, including the credit card. She also has to agree to see a therapist or counsellor to sort through her problems and deal with the cutting. Make sure she understands that you can see she has alot of hurt to work through, and while you're there for her, you don't have the tools to help her sort out her emotions. If you want, you can either agree to pay for this, or you can add it to her debt to repay you. She must continue her schooling. She's welcome to continue living in the house.

Her second choice is for you to press charges. Make sure that she's well aware that she'll be seeing a councillor in prison. It should also be noted that this will be a criminal record that will make it harder for her to get a job when she's done school. *I just lost my train of thought because I had to make my baby some food...I think you can see where I'm going with this*

At least that would let her choose her fate and you wouldn't have to feel guilty.

The other option would be to have her committed the next time she cuts. That's hard, but she really desperately needs help to sort through it all. Maybe even try this first.

Good luck!


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

By the way, I'm not subbing to this thread, so if anyone has any questions or comments for me, feel free to PM or Email me.


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## Bartock (Feb 2, 2006)

Blu Razzberri said:


> I just want to start by saying kudo's to you "ilovemy2ds" for coming out with such a personal and heartbreaking story so she could relate to someone having hard times. I saw this go un-noticed; and I want to say that I think it's mighty big and mighty brave of you to unbury your past horrors for someone else's gain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## brenlo3 (Apr 10, 2006)

Thank you all for your thoughts, support and ideas, and personal experiences. One of the problems right now is my sis and I , think she's seeing her ex again. After she came back home (or during the whole process), she wrote her mother a letter saying she wasn't gay it was just an experience.(which I think she thinks is what her mother wanted to here: and I must admit my sister is ultra conservative and miught be true.)

They both lived in my dad's house and during that time were stealing and buying cel phones, computers lap tops etc... Then moved out together, and then they pretended to be the bank and phoned my sis to say there were problems with her account, (which is probably why they moved out first), my sis went to the bank, at the same time my niece phoned my dad on the cel phone and my dad said her mom was in the bank , my niece hung up the phone. When my sister came out she tried to call her daughter at her "new place" and they wouldn't answer , my sister went to there house and they wouldn't answer the phone. I'm not sure what happened next, I beleive the letter,(which I haven't read).

Now, we think she might be seeing her again because all of a sudden she's "up", on a diet, going to the library, working a lot more hours (especially on fridays and Sat. nights) , and going to work very well groomed and smelling good, and coming home late and very happy.

One day my daughter was on my computer and she somehow got logged on in a 3 way conversation with my niece and someone my niece was talking to. My daughter finally said "Do you know who you're talking to?" when my niece found out it was my 9 yr. old she told her not to tell anyone and the gril she was talking to was a friend from school. I came in and asked my daughter who she was talking to , she kinda tried to close the window when I walked in and I smelled something was wrong. So, I read it.

She keeps telling us about two friends at school ( one works where she does). I think the second girl is her ex and using that fake name so when they're online etc... my sis won't know it's her ex. I'm so afraid that if she's back with that ex (whom I've never met) my sister won't recover from that. My niece probably won't either since it was an abusive relationship. I don't beleive that you can use the excuse that it was her ex's fault, if someone wanted me to steal , well from anyone I'd say no way. We were raised to respect other people and work hard for what we want, I'm so sad for my sis, she loves her daughter so, so much.


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## editmom (Dec 6, 2006)

I am in agreement with about everyone here. I have had issues with adult son on drugs with a mental illness try similar things though less severe. I also had a niece who stole a lot of money from us. I took her to court and she did pay most of it back. Momma, Yes it's hard but I would be having a conversation with the police. I would also ask if a person from child Protective services could speak with you as a favor to look at what works for younger kids.

Is there an indication that girlfriend has forced her into this behavior? DRUGS are a big issue. Good luck, I wish in retrospect that I had hauled out the big treatments with my son as he had a lot of issues. He had to be held accountable and wasn't until he broke the law with other people.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
And never call the police if what you want is a psychiatrist.

This sounds like a very troubled girl. I would get her some serious help *now.*


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brenlo3* 
My daughter took out a second ATM card for my account (without me knowing) and wiped out my life savings, took out my salary , leaving just enough to cover my cheques , racked up my credit card to capacity, and took out a major creditcard and racked it up, crashed her grandfathers new car and stole items from my sister and nephew and sold them including a video camara. I'm a single mother and have given my life to her, never went out , worked and lived for her, taught her to be a good person and I just can't beleive this has happened.

I'm numb, I can't feel, I'm destroyed and violated and torn!!She left to live on her own (now I know I was paying for that), and fought with her friend and needed to come back home (this is after I found all of this out)., now she's here and if I ask her any questions she says "I feel like I'm being interrogated." She is not sorry , isn't paying me back and doesn't feel remorseful. I feel like I can't trust her and don't ask her anything because I know she will tell me a lie.

She is cutting herself and I think it's her way of scaring me and controlling me. (if I punish her for her actions she'll hurt herself.)









I don't know what to do to make her take responsibility for what she has done to me. I have nothing, I saved for 15 years and now I have nothing!!
I feel heart broken someone I love so much could do this to me.

Please tell me what I need to do ? I can't see the forest through the trees and I'm scared she'll hurt herself!!

Sincerely, brenlo3's sister

brenlo3 told me about you mamas and suggested I post here.







:

Personally? I would call the police. I would also be bringing action against the bank for allowing someone else -- anyone, period -- to take out money from my account without my knowledge. Frankly, I think that's your best bet for getting your money back.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I'm talking to my friend right now about this. Her brother did the same thing to their parents... stole $30,000 from them that they were going to use to buy a house.

Her parents did nothing. My friend thinks they felt guilty... the family had a lot of problems, and she feels like her brother was doing it for some kind of revenge, to express his rage about what had happened in the family. Her father was out all the time







men, and her mother was drinking constantly, during their childhood.

She hypothesizes that in your situation, either something really bad has happened that your daughter is expressing rage about, or maybe you have been a pushover and your daughter is overly entitled/narcissistic and feels like she can do whatever she wants to you without consequence.

I have no idea if either of those things are true, but just throwing them out there.

My friend says her parents did nothing, they sort of figured, well it's too late, the money is gone. They saw it as maybe some sort of payback, and tried to continue on from there with their son.

A few years later both parents were dead, and my friend is very glad the family did not burst apart over her brother's behaviour.

He never paid back the money tho, and later after my friend's father had died and her mother was living in poverty, he would loan the mother small amounts of money and expect it back.

I am thinking of whoever said, "You either need to call the cops or let it go." I think that might be true.








to you.


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## MysteryMama (Aug 11, 2006)

you have a kinder heart than i do. if my child ever wipes out my life savings and everything else that your dd has done to you, i will cut him out of my life forever. or at least for a very long time, like years.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeannie81* 
you have a kinder heart than i do. if my child ever wipes out my life savings and everything else that your dd has done to you, i will cut him out of my life forever. or at least for a very long time, like years.

That is what I was thinking too. But it's one thing to say it, another to do it.


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## boobybunny (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 







:

And never call the police if what you want is a psychiatrist. The police are not trained to be social workers. Just a few weeks ago in my town a family called the police because their 18 year old son was drunk or high and acting out. They wanted him admitted to a psych ward. He's dead. The cops shot him because he was "acting dangerous" even though he wasn't armed.

If you want a social worker, call a social worker. Not the police.

Come on, be honest, the boy broke every window in the mcmansion, was off his meds and had been partying. The family was locked into a bedroom, to stay away from him. Maybe we should have a butterfly net squad instead of the police to call but until then, sometimes the only people you can call are the police.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Except the family says they regret calling the police. I don't think the kid was up for sainthood by any means, but when a mother says "I wish we would have tried something else first" I think that's worth listening to.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeannie81* 
you have a kinder heart than i do. if my child ever wipes out my life savings and everything else that your dd has done to you, i will cut him out of my life forever. or at least for a very long time, like years.

I was a troubled teen/young adult. I did some bad things. My sister and I had a couple of rough years where we made a lot of bad choices. I am so grateful that my dad hung in there and never gave up believing that I was a good person at heart. He stood by me and helped me get the help I needed.

I would never, ever give up fighting for my child.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
Other options? You can accept being used and abused by your daughter until she ends up dead or in jail when she does it to someone else who isn't so forgiving.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

I cannot see "cutting out" my child over anything. I brought her into the world out of my own selfish desire to have a child, and she's my responsibility. If she screws up majorly in life, I'm willing to bet my decisions had something to do with her ending up at that bad place. It's my job to do what I can to help her and I just can't see how "cutting out" would ever help her, even if she did something terrible, even if she had to go to jail.


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## boobybunny (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
Except the family says they regret calling the police. I don't think the kid was up for sainthood by any means, but when a mother says "I wish we would have tried something else first" I think that's worth listening to.


I am not sure what else they could have tried, White Bird has become homeless only help, the boy was weilding a knife. It's not like we can shoot a tranq. dart into someone suffering an extreem mania. (but maybe we should) The boys younger brother went on to play in a semi final soccer playoff the next day, and according to my nephew who plays with him (and has played with him for YEARS) this was one of many incidents with the older brother. That is not to say he deserved to die, but maybe he was trying to do a suicide by cop.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

I think that you can call the police AND still be there for your daughter. It feels like those two things are mutually exclusive, but they are not.

To the OP - Your daughter has committed a crime - it is no less a crime because it is against you. If your daughter stole from someone else, would you call the police? What if she hurt someone else? What if she killed someone else? I'm not implying in anyway that your daughter will escalate to violence, but I bet it's pretty clear to you that if you knew she killed someone you would call the police so that justice could be served? And you might even call the police if you knew she had hurt someone or mugged them? So, because it's you that she has stolen from you don't call the police.

You can *still* be there for her. You can still give her a place to live and help her rebuild her life once she makes restitution - whether financial or simply serving out whatever sentence she is given. Calling the police is not giving up on your daughter or turning your back on her. It is serving justice. It doesn't matter that it's you she has stolen from; she has still committed a crime. Please do the morally correct thing and report the crime. You can still support your daughter.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

There are at least two different people in this situation that need help....the mom and the daughter. The daughter obviously has enormous issues that need to be addressed. First off she needs to learn that you can't do something like this to someone and walk away without consequences, and that the person who picks the consequences is not her, it is the victim she created by her actions. I strongly suspect there is substance abuse involved, and she is dating a violent partner, and she is behaving illegally and defiantly and dangerously. She is 21 and there is absolutely no excuse for what she has done, period. She needs help and she needs consequences, 'nuff said.

Mom also needs counseling and help. It appears mom has an extremely co-dependant relationship with her daughter and there are little to no boundaries in place to establish a healthy interaction between the two. Mom needs to seek some assistance for this and learn that she has enough worth to not be trampled on by someone else. She also needs to see that her daughter is NOT all she has, and if she doesn't have a "life" established by now she'd better get one quick. Life can and will go on if her daughter walks out of it, she needs to make a choice to live her own life for herself, not her 21 year old child.

For what it's worth, if Grandpa is encouraging the co-dependency, which it sounds like he is, then he could use a few wise words from a counselor as well.
As for everyone who will "stand by their kid".... at what point do you decide to set boundaries and protect yourself? At what point do you say enough is enough and not allow yourself to be victimized by your own offspring? There is a difference between abandoning a child and not allwoing that child to cause more harm to you.Just some food for thought.

I have no doubt in my mind that there has been trouble with this daughter before, she didn't just up and do this, people work there way into this kind of behavior. Red flags need to be paid attention to, and help needs to be sought, well BEFORE the problem hits this magnitude. It is awfully late in the game now for things to be repaired. Not impossible, but very late.

Namaste,

Michelle


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Again, no one behaves like this randomly. It will be a lot easier for me to "stand by my kid" if, say, I am not a conservative who makes her feel like she has to hide who she is from me. If I don't let abusive men into her life when she is small. If I am consistent and fair throughout her childhood and adolescence. If she ends up stealing thousands from me then uh, yeah, I screwed up somewhere and I can't just say "DELETE" and forget I brought her into existence.

FTR while some here think the OP is too soft, I at least admire her for having a heart and not just saying "off with her head." I think that the "tough love" bullcrap has no place on MDC.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
I cannot see "cutting out" my child over anything. I brought her into the world out of my own selfish desire to have a child, and she's my responsibility. If she screws up majorly in life, I'm willing to bet my decisions had something to do with her ending up at that bad place. It's my job to do what I can to help her and I just can't see how "cutting out" would ever help her, even if she did something terrible, even if she had to go to jail.


Sometimes people are mentally unbalanced, with it having NOTHING to do with parenting, and sometimes people are messed up by their parents. And sometimes, IMHO, people are just jerks.

I am 39. I do not feel my mother has any responsibility for me. Likewise, when my own sons are my age now, I won't be responsible for their actions and decisions.

I don't know if I could permanently cut off one of my kids. But, if I had one who was hell-bent on destroying me, alone with himself, I might consider it.

I guess I just don't know.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I honestly can't imagine cutting my child out of my life either. But I equally can't imagine my child, who I have spent years and years of my life struggling to raise as well as I can, stealing from me in such a devastating way.

I really feel for the OP.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

OK so great, if your kid is terribly ill then you don't have to be their mom anymore? As long as it's mental illness, eh? I guess I just don't feel I have any business bringing someone into this miserable world against their will if I am going to have a "cancellation clause" in the contract.

"Unconditional love" oh wait, now everyone will say "I'd love her, I'd just love her without talking to her or being around her or doing a thing for her ever again." Yeah right.


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## brenlo3 (Apr 10, 2006)

I was speaking to my sis and she has a fantastic new resolution. Let her fall and when shee does tell her she's there for her and offer her, her support, if she takes it, it's with the new rules.

I think she's right she has to stop taking responsibility for her daughter, I think if my sis did anything wrong it was being overprotective and not letting my niece feel any distress or take any responsibility. I agree it's time to back off and let the pieces fall where they may.

As for drugs no I'm sure she's not on drugs, she is very heavy (which I beleive is not a characteristic of drug abuse), and she is very coherent, I've never seen her in any altered state, none of us drink or do drugs in this family, we don't even have liquor in the house. We have wine at thanksgiving and christmas and that's it.

Regarding us thinking she's back with her ex, last night she said she "worked" and then today she left and later phoned to say she was called into work and then will be leaving from work to go to the christmas party???
It seems strange that she didn't hear about the christmas party last night at work , isn't it? She had quit smoking when I arrived 1 mth ago, and now has started again, her ex smokes, I know that could be for a million other reasons but it could also be because she's back with the ex.

Namastiti,
brenlo3 if only suryanamaskar could fix this.


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

Sounds like mom needs to get some professional help FIRST for herself. Right now she is no place to help her daughter because she is hurt and doesn't know what to do. I don't blame her, I would be devastated too! But the daughter has a right to live her life however she wants. What she doesn't have a right to do is to ruin her mom's life or bring her mom down with her. So mom needs to learn how to set healthy boundaries, this girl is 21yo for goodness sake, she is an adult and acting like a spoiled 13yo.

So that's my advice: Get help for yourself. Get some professional counseling, talk to the people with Toughlove, go to Alanon type meetings, seek out a pastor or other clergy you might true, but do something.

And learn to set some boundaries and live your own life separately from your daughter. Hopefully she will come around, but she has committed crimes and if you let that slide, she will continue and continue. And in the end that is not love on your part. Sometimes love is doing the hard thing, not the easy one.

Good luck, it's such a sad mess, I really do feel for you


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## brenlo3 (Apr 10, 2006)

Thanks Barb , I'll pass that on to my sis. I think that is good solid advice.


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## brenlo3 (Apr 10, 2006)

Just a note to belgiansheepdog, because it's difficult to fill in all the blanks in this story, but my sis got prgnant the second time she ever had sex, and tried to make it work for a year or two with the father. My sis has never even had a date in 21 years!! Just food for thought, you really can be a good parent and have a stinky kid. My sis is also an ECE, she really is, if I do say so myself ,a beautiful giving soul.







:


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I have no idea so take this with a grain of salt, but personally I would seriously consider calling the police and having her charged.

I agree with this idea.







There's nothing like tough love. They can help her get help without abandoning her. I don't think I could ever abandon a child of mine in any situation. We all make mistakes, especially when we're young.

You didn't mention your DDs age but she obviously has no respect for you as her mother, the person who carried her for 9 months and raised her. She isn't sorry for her actions and hasn't apologized to you or atleast tried to make it up to you? I'm sorry, but if it were my child they would agree to getting some help or else they wouldn't be welcome in my home. What she did goes beyond trust issues. JMHO, but she sounds very tricky and caniving (sp?) and I wouldn't trust her in my home.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brenlo3* 
you really can be a good parent and have a stinky kid.

And you can be a good person and do stinky things. People often go through rough times in life where they do stupid things they later regret, the ones who make it through have family who never gave up.

Quote:

My sis is also an ECE
What's that?


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## kennedy444 (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grypx831* 
I would call the police and press charges.


Me too. You wouldn't be doing her any favors by letting her getaway with this.


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

To the previous poster: "ECE" = early childhood educator. (In case you don't know, this is someone who's gone to school to be a childcare provider and/or teacher to young children.)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ellien C* 
...If your daughter stole from someone else, would you call the police? What if she hurt someone else? What if she killed someone else?...

She IS hurting one else, and may end up accidentally killing someone....HERSELF!!! She's cutting and that's dangerous. Look, if you want to help your daughter; doing nothing is NOT the way to go. You HAVE to do something. Research your options, map out a plan, head down that path and don't look back. Private counselling is a great place for her to start. You (mama) also need to seek help for yourself. This is alot for you to process and you have issues of anger and hurt deep down there among the concern and it would be best for your well-being that you seek help too. If you can't afford it, contact your church/religious organization and see if they can help.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman* 
...For what it's worth, if Grandpa is encouraging the co-dependency, which it sounds like he is, then he could use a few wise words from a counselor as well....









:

...and in fact, 'brenlo3'; you should get counselling too....same with your daughter (and pay special attention to her, since she was twisted into this and it's necessary that she's not thinking this is something she can do too). I'm not saying you'll need years of therapy or anything, but a few sessions to process how YOU feel and your anger in this situation should be addressed as well.

I feel now that I've said everything I can to help here; so I don't plan on returning to this thread again. I wish you and your family luck, health, and total wellness in the future.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
Sometimes people are mentally unbalanced, with it having NOTHING to do with parenting, and sometimes people are messed up by their parents. And sometimes, IMHO, people are just jerks.


People are not born jerks. Something happened to create the jerk. Be that mental illness, past abuse or a variety of other things none of which are just being born .


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
People are not born jerks. Something happened to create the jerk. Be that mental illness, past abuse or a variety of other things none of which are just being born .

Maybe so - but that doesn't mean it's bad parenting or a parent's fault. I was abused by a relative, without my mom's knowledge, for years. She addressed it as soon as she found out. I was abused again, by an employee at my school, without my mom's knowledge. All kinds of crap can happen to people that aren't about bad parenting.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brenlo3* 
Please tell me what I need to do ?

I have only read the OP. If this were my kid, the first thing I would do is tell her to find a new place to live. The second thing I would do is call the police and report the theft. The third thing I would do is get some counseling to figure out how to rebuild my life after this massive betrayal.

Namaste!


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## brenlo3 (Apr 10, 2006)

Well, just an update, this just get crazier by the minute. She was supposed to work on Sunday, my dad drove her in, as he or I do. My sister doesn't have her work number (after a year of her working there), because she says her mom is nosey. She phoned while my sis was out and wanted to know where she was, who she was out with etc... I said I didn't know but to call back later.

She doesn't have a cel. anymore because of what happened in the past ( I imagine my sister is paying off her last one). While with a knot in my stomach I star 69ed the call and said oh I'm just calling to see what time your getting off. She didn't answer the phone , I left a messege and then she called back. She saounded very stern when she called back, like so now you know that I have a cel, kinda thing.

Then I went to the phone book looked up her job and phoned asking for my niece, the lady said nobody by that name works here, I described my niece to her and she said no.

Then my niece called my sis and I told my sis to say I just phoned her work etc.. and that I will phone again when she hangs up and I would like her to answer the phone to prove to me she's there.

I phoned again and the same ,now aggitated lady answered and said I already told you she doesn't work here, I explained what just happened and told her I'm just worried about my niece and please accept my appology for disturbing you. She said it was o.k. and that she has worked there for 6 years and in that time nobody by that name has ever worked here. I said thank you.

When my niece called back she said she is out in front of work and I could go pick her up. My sister said but what work you don't work and never did. For one year shes been haveing my dad and the last month me drive her about 15-20 mins. into and pick her up, and she never worked there!!

Also, when I first came back , 1 mth ago, she called us from work and she was screaming she had fallen and my sis and dad (who is 78 yrs, old) went to get her and took her to the hospital, her shoulder was out of the socket!! She had her shoulder put back in and a sling put on???? What was that about she said she fell, but now in retrospect maybe that girlfriend did it to her.

Anyway, my sis told her she couldn't live here anymore until she agrees to stop seeing her girlfriend and get professional help. well... she didn't come home last night and left a mess. that she'll be coming for her things tonight.

She got the mail today and there was a letter that the creditcard my niece took out, racked up and was paying back (that was in my sis name) , is going to collections and my sis has 5 days to pay it!! So, she hasn't been paying that, obviously since she doesn't work. Her girlfriend is a single mother and on welfare, so I imagine she gets money from her or I hope not from us!!

So, what can we do???? She's 21 yrs. old. How and where can my sister go so when my niece does fall my sis will be ready with a socail worker who is aware of the case and ready to admit her to a program...what program , where etc... My sis has nothing. I've just come home with 3 children and I'm struggling and my poor father lives off his pension. Help we are in T.O., Ontario, Canada. Please if there are any referrels please let me know, we are desperate.


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

I would not call the police on my daughter, either. I would try to find out what caused this to happen, what is going on underneath the behavior. I would get therapy for myself and then try to get her to get therapy as well.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you.


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

What a heartbreaking situation.

As this daughter is 21 years old, no one can force her into therapy. There is not much point doing much more than encouraging it. Her mother, however, needs some therapy too. A few pages back sopmeone mentioned borderline personality disorder. It sure sounds a lot like that to me - the cutting, the manipulation, the drama, the victim mentality, not being able to accept responsibility for one's own hurtful/harmful actions.

Whether or not the daughter is willing to see someone and get a proper diagnosis of whatever the problem is, her mom can still benefit from counselling. There are some excellent resources out there for family members of people with BPD. Please encourage this mom to do some reading - I think there is a website called BPDCentral or something like that and there are several books like "Stop Walking On Eggshells" that talk about these kinds of problems and have chapters specifically for parents of someone who does this kind of thing.

The drama will continue. The best thing for mom to do is to learn about the dynamnics that are going on and talk to others who have been there and a counsellor who understands. If you are living in Toronto, there are lots of counselling services available and psychiatric care is fully covered by OHIP.

Please encourage to at least do some reading about borderline personality disorder. Other parents have been there.


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

Quote:

She got the mail today and there was a letter that the creditcard my niece took out, racked up and was paying back (that was in my sis name)
This is also an identity theft situation. If the Mom can prove that Mom was a victim of fraud, and did not ever sign for/know about the credit cards, it may be possible to make the debt go away. Of course the first step in this process will be to have a police report filed.

In any case, the Mom needs to protect herself from further identity theft. Get copies of her credit report, dispute and cancel all fraudulent accounts, and have warning placed on the credit report (so if any future credit cards are applied for, they will need to actually speak with the person on the phone.)

http://www.safecanada.ca/identitytheft_e.asp
http://www.identitytheft.org/


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

Have you considered the very real possibility that she is involved with drugs? You need to find out about that because it would probably change the course of action that you would need to take.


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

This sounds just like my ex husband. He did this stuff to his grandparents for 10 YEARS! He was 29 when they were about to lose their home because he had stolen all their money, used their credit cards, etc. He never used drugs, he just didn't want to work... he never had a job until two years ago.

They finally pressed charges three years ago. I know this because they couldn't find him so of course the cops came knocking at my door asking how to reach him, where he lived.

He is now 32 almost 33. He is on probation (he has two more years) and he pays a certain sum each month direct deposit out of his paycheck back to his grandparents per court order. Calling the police was the best thing that his grandparents ever did for him. It scared him straight...


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## brenlo3 (Apr 10, 2006)

Well, my sis is struggling with what is happening with her daughter. Today, she told me she needs me to help her because she just wants someone to tell her she can "leave this earth". Please mamas, please help me, where can I take her. We are in T.O. Ont. Can.

I need somewhere right now. You know if we go to the Dr. it's a ref. from the family Dr. to a specialist who doesn't specialize or even understand. I need some kind of group like alanon (but alcohol is not the problem) to help her right now!!

I'm lost, she needs help today, please help me.

My sis is the mom of the daughter who stole everything (identity theft). Please help me.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

http://suicidehotlines.com/canada.html

Call there, and they can give you suggestions and refer you to more resources.

Hugs.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

How is everything, brenlo3?


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I'm so sorry, brenlo3. I'm from Toronto. You can call the Distress Centre for advice, or there is a mobile mental health crisis team that can come out and visit you. I forget the name, but the Distress Centre will know.

This is so sad. I'm so sorry for your sis, and her daughter.

Especially given that the debt could be relieved via an identity theft conviction, I would be very inclined to call the police myself, personally. You know better than I, of course.


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## josybear (Jul 24, 2006)

i bet that girl is selling pot.
is her "work" in a central location?
because if she's had her own money in the past from her 'job', she's getting it somewhere. and if she's overweight, it could be the munchies. and if every time she smokes her stock she bails herself out using her mom's money, that would explain how she's spent so much, so fast. if she needs to have a cell phone so badly... everything you've written has convinced me more and more that this girl is selling weed.
being canadian, involving the police won't do anything, but she needs to be held accountable.


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## nattybo (Jul 16, 2005)

I think josybear is right. Absolutely spot on. It explains everything. Even the abusive girlfriend...girlfriend beats her up when she smokes her stock or doesn't meet some quota.

***A lot of colleges here in the U.S. (I realize that you are in Canada) have FREE counceling offered by their Psychology departments to help the training of their students. The FREE councelling offered for students, non-students, children, children with dissabilities, and families etc. And at my University they were practically begging for families to come in for councelling b/c they needed real life experience for the family counceling students. Each student has a Professor mentor, so if the case subject is especially difficult the student has someone to go to for help.

Please, please call your local university, it cant hurt to try. B/c its FREE! For days, weeks, months, whatever.

Even if you have to drive an hour to get there. In my humble opinion, I believe that this entire family, Grandpa on down, needs some councelling. Too much has happened. Too many lives have been affected. Much too much...this is all so sad.

If it were me, I would at least be pressing charges at least against this "girlfriend." The daughter might get off with minimal charges (probation,fines) b/c she can claim that she was coerced and has a mental dissability that the girlfriend exploited ??? I am not a lawyer, but I would definitely call one.


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## ktmama (Jan 21, 2004)

_she wrote her mother a letter saying she wasn't gay it was just an experience.(which I think she thinks is what her mother wanted to here: and I must admit my sister is ultra conservative and miught be true.)_

Reading this it comes as no suprise to me that this young woman is self harming and lashing out at her mom. Your remark here means to me that your sis has given her daughter (either directly or indirectly) the message that being gay isn't OK with her and/or OK at all. I've worked with hundreds of kids who "suprisingly" begin to act out just at the time they are coming out, usually due to some internalized hatred/prejudice that comes from our culture, yes, but more potently from their families.

I'm so sorry your family is going through this. I hope your niece gets both the help and consequences she obviously needs.

I don't know how the system works in Canada, but in the US, your niece would be considered an adult and, unless she was a "danger to herself or others" could not be put into any kind of program by anyone other than herself. Even if your sister did get a mental health hold put on her, it would expire in 72 hours.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

First things first, you need to protect yourself from identity theft and further fraud.

1. Get a copy of your credit report. This is free from any of the credit bureaus, provided you do not also want your credit score (finding out your credit score costs money). If you go to www.equifax.com, there are instructions for requesting the information. This is a good idea to do annually, even if you have no reason to suspect anything wrong. Your credit report will tell you about credit cards and utility accounts in your name.

2. Change the lock on the mailbox or rent a P.O. box. Do not give your daughter a key. Have statements, credit card bills, etc., sent to the P.O. box if you rent one.

3. Go to your bank with ID, and request that all outstanding ATM cards on your accounts be cancelled. Have them issue new ones, to be held at the bank for you to pick up. Stress that you and only you will be picking them up. While you are there, check with them about what address they have on record for you. Is it your home address? If not, where is it? What about identifying information - mother's maiden name, etc.? Can you specify a new question for them to ask to verify your identity, one to which only you know the answer? When should you receive a monthly statement? In future, if you do not receive monthly statements, call the bank and ask for copies. Examine the statements every month to be sure there are no charges you do not recognize.

4. If you know the ex-girlfriend's (current girlfriend's?) name, it wouldn't hurt to run a google search on her either. A search on zabasearch.com will turn up her past and current addresses. (Zabasearch.com is an evil, privacy-destroying search engine, and lots of people hate it for good reason, but it does have its uses and this is one of them.) You might, while you're at it, want to try and find out whether there are any outstanding warrants against her or your daughter. If there are, informing the police of her whereabouts may be a great way to make her less of a problem for you and your family for the immediate future.

If your daughter was taking your money while living with this woman, it's possible that she shared your personal info with her, and that the girlfriend may be using it as well. Find out.

5. Google and zabasearch your own name. Do you appear to have any addresses you aren't aware of? There may be other people with your name, but are there other people with your name and birthday who seem to be living at your daughter's old apartment, at the same address as the daughter's ex, or in the same town as you? That's unlikely to be a coincidence, and may indicate an address on which you have been listed as paying a utility bill or receiving a bank statement.

You need to find out how deep this particular financial hole is, and you need to close as many leaks as possible.

Some things you need to know:

Your bank or credit card company will NEVER ask you to give them account information over the phone. If someone says they are from a bank and they need your account information, ask them for their number so you can call them back. Before you call them back, run a reverse lookup on the number (you can do this at www.whitepages.com, or you can run a google search for it). If the number does not appear to belong to the bank, do not call. A reverse lookup on a cellphone number will get you almost no information - at best, you will get the name of the cellphone carrier the number is registered with. A reverse lookup on a bank number should get you the business name of the bank.

You should never give out credit card or personal information over the phone unless YOU call a business (don't give it out if they call you, only if you call them), and unless there is a legitimate business reason to do so.


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## corwinegall (Jul 7, 2004)




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