# ~Healing the Gut AUGUST MAMAS~



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm so excited to start a new thread







I feel like a celebrity









Including some past threads:

THE CHEAT SHEET














http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?p=4893042

July: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ealing+the+gut
June: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ealing+the+gut
May: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ealing+the+gut
April: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ealing+the+gut
March: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ealing+the+gut
February: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...february+legal
January: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...9&page=1&pp=20

Dec 05: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...february+legal
Nov 05: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=364340
Oct 05: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=350068
Sept 05: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=336581
August 05: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ealing+the+gut

The original thread







: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ealing+the+gut (June 05)


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

My questions from the July thread:

*Being summer, should I decrease our intake of high vit CLO? We're presently taking 1T for me, and 1/2t for the boys.

*Cellfood? It looks interesting for my cancer treatment, thoughts?

*Jane, since our DS's are very similar in terms of healing, could you post what probiotics he is on right now? I've been neglectful of actual probiotics and just doing yogurt.

My thoughts:

*Jane, what is going on w/you and 'hellweek'? I was excited to read that your DS has been able to eat more fruits, but what is going on now?

*I definately feel like I'm healing. And I cheat quite a bit. I feel that the yeast or bad bacteria is dead in me and I'm just working on healing at this point. I have been eating illegials from time to time, which, come to think of it, is always just chevre.







Or goat milk brie







Since I don't have any more bad guys to feed, I've allowed myself some lactose, about once every 3 weeks or so. I've been on the diet since April 1st. I would like to purchase enzymes again, but w/all my cancer treatment stuff, we are just out of $$. I was taking massive amts of it too, and that definatly speed things along, I'm sure of it.

*Chiropractor care--We are firm believers and go every month. We started going to help DS1's sleep issues when he was 1 yr old. We had no success whatsoever until we started taking foods out (before I knew of SCD), here is my long thread on it on MDC, http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ad.php?t=97824

I have more thoughts, but too busy.

Hope you are well,
amy


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Subbing. Annikate, what were you trying to heal if not yeast? AmyD, same question. I don't think I have yeast, but so far I am not seeing huge improvements with SCD.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Leaky gut caused by yeast/bacteria. Now that I'm healing I'm not so bloated and gassy (except when I eat broccoli, for instance), and I feel that, in a couple years, I will be able to eat gluten again (NT style). I'm also not having any, what I called, gluten reactions, which is when I would have to run to the toilet to have an explosive, painful, diarrhea episode. Even though I was diligent about not eating gluten, it would still happen (same w/DS1 too, we'd be fighting over the one toilet in the house







).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

reposting my last couple of posts on the July thread...

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBG
Caedmyn, how is your candida protocol working for you? Are you getting better or still having die-off....

Is anybody getting better and healed besides Jane?

Well I'm about to give up.

Also, our budget is SO tight, that I won't be able to keep buying ANY supplements. We can't afford to have a normal diet. 40 dollars a week for groceries won't even get enough meat and eggs to feed 4 of us.

So I have to stop the SCD-candida-NT. it's not helping anyway. I guess I'll just have to live with it.

Sorry for complaining.... I guess I'm just having a bad morning.

I'm sorry things are rough for you right now. Hopefully your financial situation will improve soon.

Have you tried beet kvass? There was an excerpt in "Eat Fat Lose Fat" about someone with candida who didn't get any better with diet, etc, until she tried beet kvass. At least it would be cheap...

I'm not having much die-off at all. I feel like this diet is going to work for us, but I haven't actually seen improvements yet. I've decided to stick with the diet without cheating until Labor Day--it's allowed to cheat once a week on this diet, but I sort of went overboard with the cheating and binged. Last time I cheated we went out to eat for DH's BD and besides my meal I had about 8 cornbread muffins, 3 big bowls of ice cream, and a giant chocolate cookie







If neither DD nor I are improving by Labor Day I'm going back to eating "normal" NT foods.

*
CHIROPRACTORS*--anyone besides Pattyla tried chiropractic for their baby's sleep issues? DD woke up about 10 times last night. I have no idea why she is waking up so often. I've got to do something to get her sleeping better.

*
ENZYMES* If I'm eating lacto-fermented foods at every meal, can I stop taking digestive enzymes, or is there not enough enzymes in the lacto-fermented stuff to make up for the digestive enzymes? The only foods I'm eating right now are fats, eggs, meats, and low-carb veggies.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I think so.... I suppose the taditional peoples don't take enzymes either. I think you could give it a try.
Thanks for remindig me about beet kvass, I forgot about it. I think I have one in my refrigerator...
I guess I'll go back to making beet kvass and saurkraut. Hoping to clear my acne. I don't know what's happening to me, hormones or what, but my eczema is horrible, I'm losing a ton of hair and my previously clear face looks like I'm 13. I stopped breasfeeding about a month ago and still have not had a period. Maybe the hormones are making me depressed. Oh and I'm gaining weight. All this without changing anything in the diet.
BM-s are still good, digestion great. So actually the diet at least helped this much.
But what am I going to do without my CLO? I can live without CO as we can still get butter and olive oil, but CO is way to expensive. But CLO has been our only good source of omega 3, A and D. Would battery eggs, grain-fed butter and commercial liver be OK? We can't afford grass-fed anything. I'm thinking it's still better than vegetable oils.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:

perhaps it flairs up because you ARE dealing with the yeast. that is, as they die off, their toxins leak into your lymph system and into your milk. could you stick with it long enough to get over the die off?

have you tried evening primrose oil supplements to help with your dc's eczema?
I could stick with it, I just have to get over looking at DH's eczema. I guess I need to change my outlook and decide that I will be very strict for a month no matter what happens on his face. I have not tried EPO yet. I have been taking 2 tsps of CLO, eating butter from the farmers market and using CO as much as possible.

*Is there anything I can do for DS to help relieve his symptoms? I will get some baby probiotics. He is almost 8 months, too young for digestive enzymes?

*JaneS, I would be interested to read how your DS's eczema was healed, and then on his way to healing leaky gut.

Quote:

I definately feel like I'm healing. And I cheat quite a bit. I feel that the yeast or bad bacteria is dead in me and I'm just working on healing at this point. I have been eating illegials from time to time, which, come to think of it, is always just chevre. Or goat milk brie Since I don't have any more bad guys to feed, I've allowed myself some lactose, about once every 3 weeks or so. I've been on the diet since April 1st. I would like to purchase enzymes again, but w/all my cancer treatment stuff, we are just out of $$. I was taking massive amts of it too, and that definatly speed things along, I'm sure of it.
Your journey with cancer must be challenging physically and mentally, thankfully your gut is getting somewhere. Where are you in your cancer treatments? At what point did you feel like the yeast/bacteria was no longer a problem?

*moonshine-what are you trying to heal with SCD?

*someone posted about a yahoo group for yeast, can you repost the link?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
But what am I going to do without my CLO? I can live without CO as we can still get butter and olive oil, but CO is way to expensive. But CLO has been our only good source of omega 3, A and D. Would battery eggs, grain-fed butter and commercial liver be OK? We can't afford grass-fed anything. I'm thinking it's still better than vegetable oils.

This might still be too much, but the cheapest CO I found is at www.mountainroseherbs.com--$28 for a gallon, plus shipping which is around $7 for me.

I don't know if they have Costco in your area, but if they do and you have a membership or know someone who does, Kerrygold is supposed to be a brand of grass-fed butter (I don't think it is organic, so the price might be reasonable). Also, you might be able to find someone in your area who has a few chickens and will sell you eggs--I've seen some around here for $1 per dozen. Try www.craigslist.com and do a search for eggs. You could also try canned salmon if not too expensive (bumblebee has one that says it's wild caught), or maybe ground flax seed for omega 3's.

I do think commercial whole foods are preferable to vegetable oils and stuff--just do the best you can.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
*someone posted about a yahoo group for yeast, can you repost the link?

It's called candidasupport.


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

subbing and a tmi poop question... i know someone has mentioned white specks and floating before, but i can't remember what they mean. can someone fill me in?


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## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Hello mamas - sorry this is so long!!

I first learned about gut healing when I consulted an LC recommended by firefaery to address my breastmilk oversupply issues. My second baby was born 2.5 mo ago and, while I struggled with oversupply at first, it seems to be under control now - possibly because of the many things that I've done to fix it. I started an elimination diet about 7 weeks ago, eliminating dairy, gluten, rice, almonds, chocolate and oranges - this was based on my staple foods and craved foods. I found out that dd was reactive to dairy (rash all over body) and wheat (mucus in poop). So far soy looks OK but I am not planning to eat much soy because I have concerns about it.

I think of myself as being quite healthy and free of health problems but my LC thinks I have a leaky gut because:

I tend towards being constipated (go 1X per day but poops tend to be hard and I have an anal fissure)
my apparently leaky gut is allowing proteins to cross the gut barrier into my breastmilk - causing dd's reactions
Other possible symptoms of food sensitivity that I have are intermittent seborrheic dermatitis (scalp and behind ears) and dark circles under my eyes.

My main motivation to deal with this is to protect dd. Things I've been doing to address the gut issue:

taking digestive enzymes from Houston Neutraceuticals
taking Udo's Choice adult blend probiotics
eating a bit more coconut oil/milk
doing elimination diet to see if I have sensitivities (no obvious ones so far except that my oversupply has stopped - other symptoms are the same)
I am reading Nourishing Traditions and I like the idea of eating a diet that is naturally rich in enzymes and helpful bacteria. But I'm discouraged about not being able to eat dairy as it's such a great convenience food (especially yoghurt and cheese, my faves) and I crave it a lot in the first postpartum months. I'm enjoying eating more fish but not as much enjoying eating more meat/nuts - feel a bit heavy on my system in the quantities that I am eating. I am eating a lot - feel very hungry due to lactation hormones and I am nursing both of my kiddos right now. Spending a lot more time on food prep has been hard with 2 small ones and our diet has been more expensive. A simple lunch of cheese on sprouted bread is only a distant memory







.

Ds has been doing all this along with me but since he didn't seem to be reacting to foods much I have allowed him to reintroduce most of the foods back into his diet. He probably has gut damage due to the really bad oversupply problems that I had with him (and possible food sensitivities). He was also very slow to start solids, very picky eater, and has low ferritin (up to 9 from 7). He is having lots of problems with pee accidents and peeing in bed but we never got rid of that with the diet. We are chronically concerned about his food intake and have resorted to feeding him Cheddar Bunnies and rice crackers (when not on the diet) just to get food into him to avoid low blood sugar meltdowns, etc. Much of the toddler feeding ideas don't work with him as he generally won't eat anything mushy or pureed so it's hard to "hide" foods in his diet.

I'm not sure where to take it from here. More emphasis on diet - NT, SCD (heard of it but don't know much), eliminate more potential allergens? I am not crazy about dietary changes - it took me over two years to get to the point where I was willing to try an elimination diet. More supplements? LC recommends "GI Revive" and yeast cures and more potent probiotics. Also she wants me to take the enzymes between meals as well as during meals - anyone understand why?








: Suggestions?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Caedmyn,*

The once a week cheat makes no sense to me based on my experience? Is that the candida support diet?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Abi's Mom*
After my daughter turned a year old, she started drinking cow's milk. She had been eating yogurt and cheese, and cottage cheese for a while. She started getting painful, burning diaper rashes. I was told it could be diet related. I have allergies, just none to food. Abigail hasn't had any milk in about two or more weeks, she just one day refused to drink it, but she's continued to get diaper rashes on and off, about once to twice a week. then I realized that was about how often I was feeding her 4 oz of Activia yogurt. Could she be allergic to the yogurt? ACtivia has 17 grams of sugar in it, could the problem be the sugar?

*Abi's Mom,*

Yes, both the sugar and the pastuerized dairy could be culprit. The only way to test dairy is to take it completely out for several weeks to a month and then challenge it again. Personally I feel pasteurized dairy is the main reason why so main people are allergic. The heat treatment changes the proteins so that they are harder to digest and also kills beneficial bacteria and enzymes that further help. I highly recommend trying raw milk. I hear all the time from people IRL in my milk group that they couldn't handle pasteurized stuff and do great on raw. There was a post several days ago I made with links on raw milk in Nutrition forum maybe?


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
This might still be too much, but the cheapest CO I found is at www.mountainroseherbs.com--$28 for a gallon, plus shipping which is around $7 for me.

I don't know if they have Costco in your area, but if they do and you have a membership or know someone who does, Kerrygold is supposed to be a brand of grass-fed butter (I don't think it is organic, so the price might be reasonable). Also, you might be able to find someone in your area who has a few chickens and will sell you eggs--I've seen some around here for $1 per dozen. Try www.craigslist.com and do a search for eggs. You could also try canned salmon if not too expensive (bumblebee has one that says it's wild caught), or maybe ground flax seed for omega 3's.

I do think commercial whole foods are preferable to vegetable oils and stuff--just do the best you can.

Thanks for the ideas! I can't use credit cards for a while so can't order online... erverything is twice as much in the HFS...
Our Costco doesn't carry Kerrygold, Safeway does but my DH won't spend 2.99 on a half pound stick when you can get 1lb regular butter for less. But I'll try craigslist and see if I can get cheap free-range eggs.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Subbing. Annikate, what were you trying to heal if not yeast?
ACtually, I got here by accident while trying to figure out what was wrong w/dd. I just KNEW it had to be something in my diet. She had classic allergy symptoms: Dark circles under her eyes, red, puffy eyes, watery eyes, red bumps underneath the eyes, not to mention her reflux and sleep issues.

When I learned about leaky gut I thought okay, that makes sense so I started the SCD (finally, after different types of elimination diets which I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND to anyone.)

I never thought *I* had issues but the more I learned, the more I realized that being chronically constipated, burping almost ALL day long EVERY day, being bloated and gassy and having the noises from my stomach drown out nearby conversationsis







is NOT normal.







I thought it was because I had lived w/it all of my life really.

Funny how this process has made me healthier in so many ways. I no longer take an antidepressant and am convinced that my depression/anxiety stemmed from nutritional deficits due to malabsorption.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AmyD*
*Cellfood? It looks interesting for my cancer treatment, thoughts?
It does look interesting but I'm not convinced. I do like the fact that it contains amino acids. They are wonderful things. (I take them during PMS & it helps A LOT.)

I have a girlfriend who's a research scientist (microbiology), I'll email her and ask her opinion.

Oh, and I saw it in Whole Foods today. It was $29.99 I think.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
There are many things you mention here that are relevant for DS and me.
*Ds and I had antibiotics at his birth, so I know that he didn't start out having the best gut flora. What is the best way to get a broad spectrum of flora in there, without kidnapping an Amish child?







I am eating SCD 24 hr yogurt but am not currently giving him anything.

*I know we are fighting yeast, but I feel like whenever I try to step up yeast fighting measures (tried Candex, too harsh made eczema flair, I think) now am starting with V-gest (.5 capsule with meals) his eczema flairs again. I cannot tell what the eczema flairup is from. I honestly do not think I have the will power to start SCD all over and stay on the intro (for weeks?) and go to the bare minimum (not even any suppliments) I am not convinced that his eczema is all diet based anyway.

*does fermenting foods bring about different strains of bacteria than the 24 hr yogurt has to offer?

*If I heal my gut (who knows how long that will take) will he get good bacteria from my breastmilk? Will it be enough to counteract the poor start?

* How did you go about healing your DS's eczema?

I feel very discouraged, I have been on SCD for about 6 weeks and although I feel like my yeast is getting a little better on the diet DS's eczema keeps flaring up. I need more yogurt ( I currently have a few tablespoons a day) and probiotics to help with the yeast as well as some yeast fighters but they all seem to bother DS (eczema flare ups)

First of all, I must dispell rumors spread by _Miss I think I'm a Celebrity AmyD_ ...

I'm NOT planning a kidnapping, I just want to buy their "human probiotics" in natural form!















laughup









(Those are DS's goodnight smilies he clicked on himself.)

The eczema flares could be histamine reactions from the yeast toxins? When they are killed, they release one final dying breath as I understand it. Makes it hard to figure out what's what though I know.

DS's eczema was also worsened with cow dairy (he can do goat) but the regime of quercitin, cod liver oil, and evening primrose oil works well. Sometimes you need to go quite high with EPO. I've heard of adults taking 10 grams in order to see any effect. Check out 'The Eczema Tribe' thread.

Eczema might not be all diet but it's definately deficiences in gut flora and the right fatty acids. This has been shown over and over again in studies.

Yes fermented foods do have diff. probiotics. Cabbage has L. plantarum for ex.

I don't know re: best way to get broad spectrum of flora.
*That is truly the Million Dollar Question.*

We've had some sucess with L. Reuteri in the past, so that's one we are culturing. Plus if you read about in 'The Power of Probiotics' thread, it's got an interesting background (human origin was a bf'ing mama in Peru.)

I've decided to go with Garden of Life Primal Defense powder b/c of personal stories from my WAPF chapter leader who is a friend and a nutritional consultant who uses it personally and professionally with very good success. And reading "Patient Heal Thyself".

And then the 3rd one I just got for DS is Mt. Capra Probiotics Plus b/c it's grown on goat milk. My new strategy is to just overdose him (starting slowly of course) on probiotics in addition to his yogurt and see what happens. That is... until first week of Sept and appt. with new dr. to review the CDSA we just did this week. We'll see what other things he has to suggest.

*Keep breastfeeding as long as possible.*
Even with all the problems, and my gut still leaking, DS's digestion was *way* better off (raw fruits and rice and rice milk were mainstays of diet) when he was still nursing. I was a dolt to wean at 26 months! I wish I could turn clock back a year and know what I know now.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
I don't feel like anything is a 'safe' food right now. It makes me want to give up. I know this sounds horrible but if I gave DS formula at least he would be having the same thing every meal.









I remember feeling the exact same way! And yet when I weaned it was ... and still is .... MUCH MUCH WORSE.


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

subbing...i need to learn. We , especially my kids...have gut issues.

anybody know of probiotics or acidophilus type stuff that is completely dairy free?? i would love live enzymes to give them.''''


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

forgot to sub


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cullens_Girl*
Hi everyone - new to the thread...and IBS. I think I have just about every symptom - but I know that it's "rule-out" thing... I'm just wondering how long it will take them to *rule-out* everything... and also other than the IBS dietary changes I've read about online - do you have any tips?

I'm of the mind right now that if you try digestive enzymes and probiotics and see improvement, then you have your answer. Depending on symptoms of course. If you have blood, then see a dr. If you have gas, bloating, cramping, diarrhea/constipation, then you aren't digesting your food and have gut flora problems ... then it seems pure and simple to me. But mainstream doctors don't see it that way and don't know what to do about it other that treat symptoms and not causes.

However, if it's any chance it could be celiac disease, it worth getting a blood test for that.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bamamom*
subbing...i need to learn. We , especially my kids...have gut issues.

anybody know of probiotics or acidophilus type stuff that is completely dairy free?? i would love live enzymes to give them.''''

Off the top of my head...

Natren.

Kirkman Labs.

Garden of Life Primal Defense Powder.

For enzyme info www.enzymestuff.com


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Quick question,

Presently, I am taking 1T high vit CLO, and my boys are both taking 1/2t each. With it being summer, should we decrease our levels?

Thanks
Amy

I don't believe so... see http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html

Reducing it for summer is a Mercola thing and he improperly uses high doses of Vit. D without correct ratio of Vit. A to counter toxic effects. (1:10)

I never heard of native diets avoiding D for certain times and they were probably out in the sun way more right? Might be worth asking in Traditional Foods forum. Copy my post there too if you want.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
Back to reality: Ok, *now* what do I do?? What kind of a doc should I be looking for? I simply cannot afford to have an appointment with every gut doc in town hoping against hope for one who has his/her head out of his/her arse and has heard of leaky gut or anything else slightly alternative. Nor can I afford to visit with every 'naturopathic' nutcase who just wants to rinse me out or give me a rubdown or stick needles in me (no offense to any who might find acupuncture helpful for their gut; I just doubt a session or two is going to heal me, nor is a massage or two). Should I aim for calling every D.O. in town and ask if they have experience with healing guts? Or just scrap getting help and focus on helping myself? What about tests? Could it be that I possibly actually don't _need_ any testing and just need to experiment with what works for me?

Now for the million dollar question: I know this is called _healing_ the gut, but, will there ever be a day when I don't have to fear certain foods? Will there ever be a day I can eat trigger foods without paying the price? Is it truly possible to make this all better and move beyond it, looking back at the experience and laughing nervously?











This is a HOOT! You are totally right!!

This is why I think that regardless of the steep learning curve we're putting y'all on here, it is essential. Because not every practitioner who hangs a shingle knows what they are doing. And even if they do, not not everyone knows everything. There are significant things that they may miss.

Yes, it will happen. I'm laughing nervously myself right now in fact... and I want as many of you to be able to join me as possible. Please don't make me post another 4,000 times for it though okay?














:

*Maybe that Cheat Sheet needs Crib Notes.*







:

1. Digestive enzymes with meals.
2. Enzymes between meals, esp. proteases and cellulases.
3. Yogurt/kefir/fermented foods/probiotics.
4. Cut out foods you determine that you cannot digest.
5. Add nutrient dense superfoods and good quality supplements.
6. Educate yourself on what is really a healthy diet... nutrient deficiencies can in themselves lead to many digestive issues.
7. If all the above doesn't work, investigate alternatives: anti fungals/bacterials, homeopathy, etc.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Not really, but its hard to tell. I actually allowed myself forbidden food on thursday and friday b/c I was so pissed and just didnt care, and didnt feel bad, I just get a big belly. Ive actually been more depressed in the past two days than in the last week. I felt like I was coming along well in mourning and moving on and then this, and it brings it all back again. "If only..". So the symptoms I have are too hard to separate from the loss, because when I read that yesterday about taking a month, suddenly I felt great. My tongue looks better, so Im using that as a guide too. I dont know. Thanks for responding. Ironically (is it irony?) my dh is an md, and he isnt too worried about this, he says to have faith in my immune system. I wish I could and go get a bran muffin for breakfast instead of eggs eggs and more eggs (hurl). So what have you done to heal it in the past?

























Actually you reminded me... I had a m/c right before becoming pg with DS. And the circumstances of it led to a lot of anger and depression. Will spare you details, but I will say you are very lucky you are here now.

RE: DH the MD
Except 70% of immune system is in gut. And if you aren't digesting that bran muffin, you aren't absorbing the nutrients. And if you don't absorb the nutrients, your body is suffering. Your immune system runs on vitamin/minerals! And if the undigested food is fermenting to excess and producing toxins (see published studies on abnormal gut fermentation) and alcohol, your immune system is even worse off.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Thank you EricaZ for that Trent Nichols book rec, I've ordered it from inter library loan!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
I have never had food allergies (knock wood) or digestion problems or immunity problems, so otherwise ont think I need them, but I read that a certain kind help break the shell of the yeasts in the gut to then make the AF's work better. How do these enzymes even make it to the gut? How do they make it through the stomach and pancreatic acid? Do I believe this b/c I want to or has anyone had experience? That FAQ sheet also mentions that it takes about a month for every year you've had it to get rid of. Is this one of the things *JaneS* you dont believe?

Anyway, I just really want personal help. How do I wade through all the *theories* and choose a protocal that I can have faith in? Why dont I just take lamisil with all the other stuff and knock this sh** out? Ugh. Im about ready to go to pennsylvania with you!

Thanks
jess

Re: Enzymes between meals
See the Yeast/Bacteria link at www.enzymestuff.com
Also Dr. Devin Houston of Houston Nutraceuticals is available to anyone for phone consult on enzymes. He is the real deal, he worked at Edward Howell's co. (literally the inventor of enzyme research).

Plant based enzymes work both in stomach acid and also neutral ph of small intestines. They definitely get thru. Pancreatic or animal based enzymes only work in neutral ph btw.

Re: Knocking this Sh** Out!
I hear you! But overwhelming your immune system in that way is not good either. Because you need the good bacteria to grow again and occupy the space you are making.

Re: A month of Healing for every year of Suffering
Yeah, actually that is about right for me. I've had gut problems for 10 years and really bad right before pg (multiple abx really killed me). The enzymes may have speeded it up just a tad.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*







:

But seriously, there is a community of people in my neighborhood. The Twelve Tribes. All healthy, organic, WAP people, yk? No vaxes and such. A good friend of mine was a member for some time and we talked about the autism connection. They have tribes all over the world and talk frequently and such and really know the general ongoings w/other members worldwide. She knows of 2 autistic cases. TWO.

So maybe I could recruit some of them for a fecal donation, I'm sure they would help me out, we are on friendly terms and all, and then Jane and I wouldn't have to do that whole kidnapping thing....

NO kidnapping!








_*Will pay handsomely for never vaxed, never abx, raised on bf'ing/raw milk poop!*_









Yes there is a 12 Tribes group in Plymouth, MA too.... hmmm....


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Emilie*
I am sure ds hasencopresis....
I am so sad for him,.... I am addressing this is a whole new way ASAP.
Thanks so much...
Emilie

See this link http://www.enzymestuff.com/rtencopresis.htm


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
RE: Yeast

For those of you who are battling yeast, here's a very interesting link.
Read on the front page under "About Me" and at the bottom is a picture of what it can look like in the stool.

I'm posting this because I swear dd2 has had these before and I just thought they were undigested grapes. ( I cut them into tiny little pieces for her since she only has a few teeth.)

YIKES! Looks like we're dealing w/this form of yeast.









Here's the link:
http://www.sashasrecovery.com/about_me.html

























That reminds me of something else that was recommended in something I read as "fun" to do with poop testing. Put in strainer and flush water over to wash it and see what is left.







:


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
She eats at least 1/2 c. a day. Then again, she wasn't eating it EVERY day right before the test. I was supposed to have stopped it all together before testing but didn't want to put her through another bout of painful constipation (which is what would have happened.)

Have you held this amount steady or are gradually upping it? You may want to increase if it doesn't cause her side effects.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou*
1)Just looking at myself and reading about symptoms, etc, I would not tend to say I have a leaky gut. But if dd has food intolerances and is exclusively bf, does that mean that I obviously do?
2)What do I need to be doing right now while she is still exclusively breastfed? I know to not give her (or me) abx, no vaccines, and keep exclusively breastfeeding, but what beyond that? It seems to me that a probiotic for me is a good idea. What about directly for the baby? My main goal is to fix this problem (if its fixable) as soon as possible for the baby's sake.
3)I've read a lot about the enzymes, and that seems promising, but a little daunting. Should I do some of these (and are they even passed through bm?) or just eat more raw foods? If so, what is a good starter enzyme treatment?

TIA!

I tend to think yes, that generally means you have a problem. After all their gut flora and food is all from you and nature intended it to work. The following factors are only what I can think of off top of my head right now that damage gut flora:

1. Abx for you or babe before, during, after birth and pregnancy.
2. GBS/Yeast infection/digestive problem history.
3. Steriods, bcp's
4. Mercury fillings
5. Prophylactic abx as teenager for acne.
6. Supplementary formula
7. The Hep B shot given right after birth especially, and all vaccines are suspect.
8. Conventional meats/dairy contain antibiotics too.
9. Chlorine (pools esp.)
10. Exposure to chemicals/pesticides.

Start her on bifidus. For some reason her gut flora is off and possible her gut didn't seal up. Have you read "just one bottle" article in Cheat Sheet?

Raw foods do not have the right mix of enzymes for all food groups: proteins, fats, carbs. Digestive enzymes are much better if you are having trouble. Yes, a lot do make it thru to bloodstream, go carefully with a BF babe. That is why probiotics should be first thing you try IMO.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Anyone have a vote on a fruit to try? I'm so sick of no fruit.

So far watermellon was a bad choice.

As was either cherries or rasberries (not sure which one).

The bananas actually didn't seem to be bad but then that was a really hard day so perhaps the fruit contributed and I missed it.

Of course even w/o fruit we are having a very 2 year old time of it lately so who knows if I'll even be able to tell a reaction from a normal day.







:

I think I have the menu planned for next week. Wish me luck.

Bananas and cooked pears (pureed when things are really bad) are what I consistently fall back on for DS as safe and gets him improving. The cherries and raspberries have a lot of fiber to digest. Any raw fruits like watermelon is a forgettaboutit right now.

How are you doing this week?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigknitwit*
Can I join the conversation here? I've been hesitant to join because the 26 pages of reading in this thread is a little daunting. Forgive me if this has allready been covered many times.

I am frustrated, angry, and worried all at the same time for my oldest ds. He is chronically constipated. We have been treating him with miralax for a few months, and yet I don't feel like the situation has gotten much better. I'm worried about taking him off the Miralax, as his ped-gastro doctor assures us he must stay on it or he will regress. His rectum is somewhat stretched, and so the doctor says that once it returns to normal shape, he will be ready to be taken off the laxative. He has bowel movements daily, but they are more indicative of a blockage/impaction (which is what he had to begin with). He has had 4 abdominal x-rays and while I'd like to get another one to see what's going on in there, I'm hesitant to do so. Too much x-raying is not good either...

Looking back, his constipation started around the time he was no longer getting milk while nursing (I was pregnant and we tandem nursed later). Before that we had no issues. I hate giving him the Miralax. I'm considering giving him a magnesium supplement instead, but too much magnesium has it's consequences too, doesn't it? I am truly at a loss as to what to do next, and it's literally keeping me awake at night (that's why I'm up right now).









Welcome!

Magnesium is just flushed out if the body doesn't need it. Ditto high doses of vitamin C. I would trust them 100x more than Miralax which even the manufacturer says shouldn't be taken long term. Who knows that that does to the gut or whether it absorbs nutrients or what. Makes me so irritated that's all doctors have to offer!!!!

P.S. cod liver and flax seed oil is also very good for constipation. Give 1/2 - 1 tsp. cod liver for vitamins and extra flax on top of that.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
*Jane, since our DS's are very similar in terms of healing, could you post what probiotics he is on right now? I've been neglectful of actual probiotics and just doing yogurt.

Posted above. I admit I was a bit brain dead about adding different probiotics too. And we have the dairy issue. (Why I'm culturing Reuteri in yogurt to lessen that possible effect... it might be dairy free but grown on dairy, like Culturelle, ykwim?)

Obviously he never got a good laying down of initial gut flora. Totally diff. situation than an adult who is following SCD w/ yogurt only who still has remnants of an intact gut flora left? At least that's my current theory.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
*Jane, what is going on w/you and 'hellweek'? I was excited to read that your DS has been able to eat more fruits, but what is going on now?

He has been taken off enzymes and probiotics for complete CDSA. He totally regressed and is sleeping like crap. And the daytime behavior, OY! Ever hear of ODD, Opposition Defiance Disorder? Well welcome to my house, my normally very polite child is a juvenile deliquent. And people think I'm crazy when I see gut damaged children all around me just by their behavior... or to think I have indeed cheated autism by not vaxing him and keeping him on limited diet. Harumph!

Back to CDSA test. So stupid me says to the dr., "Well he cannot handle a lot of fruit, he gets loose stool almost immediately." (This CDSA you do a purge before several days of testing...) So I upped the fruit to get his solid stool to go mush and clean him out.

Cool thing is that he only had real mush for 2 days. Once I stopped extra fruit it started firming up again.









So I feel less badly today I did this to him. We really thought it would be beneficial to see what his body was actually digesting on its own and check pancreatic function.

I really hope he doesn't wake up 3x tonight now that he's back on enzymes. DARN it, forgot his extra vit. C. Took that out too for testing.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
DD woke up about 10 times last night. I have no idea why she is waking up so often. I've got to do something to get her sleeping better.

UGH, I feel bad for complaining about 3 (and DH is helping).

Have you tried high doses of vitamin C to neutralize toxins? I keep meaning to post that link to discussion w/ MT in N/I 101 thread.

Is she eating a lot of fruit?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
*
ENZYMES* If I'm eating lacto-fermented foods at every meal, can I stop taking digestive enzymes, or is there not enough enzymes in the lacto-fermented stuff to make up for the digestive enzymes? The only foods I'm eating right now are fats, eggs, meats, and low-carb veggies.

There aren't as much lipases and proteases in lacto fermented foods as in capsules. Might be important for the proteins as well. I know DS has a protein eating bad gut bug for ex.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I think so.... I suppose the taditional peoples don't take enzymes either. I think you could give it a try.
Thanks for remindig me about beet kvass, I forgot about it. I think I have one in my refrigerator...
I guess I'll go back to making beet kvass and saurkraut. Hoping to clear my acne. I don't know what's happening to me, hormones or what, but my eczema is horrible, I'm losing a ton of hair and my previously clear face looks like I'm 13. I stopped breasfeeding about a month ago and still have not had a period. Maybe the hormones are making me depressed. Oh and I'm gaining weight. All this without changing anything in the diet.

Also traditional people probably had rockin' gut flora though. All of them had several forms of fermented raw foods in their daily diets.

Sounds like thyroid problems.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

*Thank you Jane for your reply to my long post*

Sometimes a woman needs a little encouragement to know I am heading in the right direction. I will be reading on the probiotics thread as well as the eczema thread. The amount of information is overwhelming, especially when we are acting as our own doctor.

Breastfeeding

Quote:

I remember feeling the exact same way! And yet when I weaned it was ... and still is .... MUCH MUCH WORSE.
I needed to hear this. My instinct is to breastfeed him until he self weans.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia*
Hello mamas - sorry this is so long!!

I first learned about gut healing when I consulted an LC recommended by firefaery to address my breastmilk oversupply issues. My second baby was born 2.5 mo ago and, while I struggled with oversupply at first, it seems to be under control now - possibly because of the many things that I've done to fix it. I started an elimination diet about 7 weeks ago, eliminating dairy, gluten, rice, almonds, chocolate and oranges - this was based on my staple foods and craved foods. I found out that dd was reactive to dairy (rash all over body) and wheat (mucus in poop). So far soy looks OK but I am not planning to eat much soy because I have concerns about it.

I think of myself as being quite healthy and free of health problems but my LC thinks I have a leaky gut because:

I tend towards being constipated (go 1X per day but poops tend to be hard and I have an anal fissure)
my apparently leaky gut is allowing proteins to cross the gut barrier into my breastmilk - causing dd's reactions
Other possible symptoms of food sensitivity that I have are intermittent seborrheic dermatitis (scalp and behind ears) and dark circles under my eyes.

My main motivation to deal with this is to protect dd. Things I've been doing to address the gut issue:

taking digestive enzymes from Houston Neutraceuticals
taking Udo's Choice adult blend probiotics
eating a bit more coconut oil/milk
doing elimination diet to see if I have sensitivities (no obvious ones so far except that my oversupply has stopped - other symptoms are the same)
I am reading Nourishing Traditions and I like the idea of eating a diet that is naturally rich in enzymes and helpful bacteria. But I'm discouraged about not being able to eat dairy as it's such a great convenience food (especially yoghurt and cheese, my faves) and I crave it a lot in the first postpartum months. I'm enjoying eating more fish but not as much enjoying eating more meat/nuts - feel a bit heavy on my system in the quantities that I am eating. I am eating a lot - feel very hungry due to lactation hormones and I am nursing both of my kiddos right now. Spending a lot more time on food prep has been hard with 2 small ones and our diet has been more expensive. A simple lunch of cheese on sprouted bread is only a distant memory







.

Ds has been doing all this along with me but since he didn't seem to be reacting to foods much I have allowed him to reintroduce most of the foods back into his diet. He probably has gut damage due to the really bad oversupply problems that I had with him (and possible food sensitivities). He was also very slow to start solids, very picky eater, and has low ferritin (up to 9 from 7). He is having lots of problems with pee accidents and peeing in bed but we never got rid of that with the diet. We are chronically concerned about his food intake and have resorted to feeding him Cheddar Bunnies and rice crackers (when not on the diet) just to get food into him to avoid low blood sugar meltdowns, etc. Much of the toddler feeding ideas don't work with him as he generally won't eat anything mushy or pureed so it's hard to "hide" foods in his diet.

I'm not sure where to take it from here. More emphasis on diet - NT, SCD (heard of it but don't know much), eliminate more potential allergens? I am not crazy about dietary changes - it took me over two years to get to the point where I was willing to try an elimination diet. More supplements? LC recommends "GI Revive" and yeast cures and more potent probiotics. Also she wants me to take the enzymes between meals as well as during meals - anyone understand why?








: Suggestions?









Hello!

What about giving babe bifidus to help seal up her gut? Perhaps she will tolerate foods in your milk better.

Definately take lots more probiotics. Constipation is just as much an intestinal flora red flag as diarrhea. Also magnesium is great for constipation.

GI Revive is an intesting product. I don't know much about all of the herbs, but Slippery Elm is *excellent* for chronic constipation, you could also try that on your own.

You could try goat's milk and/or raw milk. Both are significantly different in structure and easier to digest than conventional pasteurized. Soy does have issues, including inhibition of digestive enzymes, not something you exactly want right now.

Dark circles can also be nutrient deficiencies too. Which gut problems often help create.

See Yeast/Bacteria link here re: taking enzymes between meals
www.enzymestuff.com

That's hard re: your DS (and he is sooo cute too!)
Not sure what to say except make sure to get some probiotics into him and see if there are any changes on that front. Mine has always liked to chew capsules but perhaps he's just weird.

Pee accidents usually mean yeast problems from what I've read in ASD community. Do you want to post a sample diet for your DS and we can try to brainstorm for further help?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I never thought *I* had issues but the more I learned, the more I realized that being chronically constipated, burping almost ALL day long EVERY day, being bloated and gassy and having the noises from my stomach drown out nearby conversationsis







is NOT normal.







I thought it was because I had lived w/it all of my life really.

That is one thing I'd like to get across to everyone: most people really have no idea what normal digestion feels like. They just get used to feeling chronically uncomfortable.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I know there are a lot of newbies here & its hard to read, yk, 90 pages of back HTG threads







:







:

Epsom salt baths help w/die-off.

that is all










And where the heck is firefaery??


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Jane's back! I love reading your posts. I think that I must do some more of my own research. I have gotten spoiled by all you have done. I am back in a bad way and despairing a bit. I just continue to be thankful that I am not also trying to heal and dc's, like many of you are doing.

I do think that I have figured out my latest relapse. I am out of enzymes. And I thought they weren't doing much.







Well, I guess now I know. And I have been eating raw fruit. Actually, I have been doing that for a while, so maybe that is ok.

What am I healing, someone asked? Major stomach issues. Constipation, gas, bloating, tender, liquid filled colon, at least part of it. Depression. Bleeding gums (got on sodium ascorbate now, thanks much). Red bumps on back of arms. I think that is it.







: Well, really the stomach stuff. By now I know all the other stuff is related, so am hoping to see improvement there too.

Jane, did I not read you dissing Rubin at some point? I guess you have changed your mind?


----------



## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Subbing...


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Thanks so much for your reply JaneS!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
What about giving babe bifidus to help seal up her gut?

That hadn't occurred to me but I guess I can do that.

Udo's Choice Infant Blend has:
_Lactobacillus casei, Streptococcus thermophilus, Bifidobacterium infantis, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Bifidobacterium breve, Lactobacillus bulgaricus_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Definately take lots more probiotics.

Sounds like a good idea.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Also magnesium is great for constipation.

Yes I was taking that too but got lazy...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
GI Revive is an intesting product.

GI Revive contains L-glutamine, N-acetyl-glucosamine, MSM, DGL, slippery elm, marshmallow, chamomile, okra, TOA-free cat's claw, quercitin, and mucin. Dh says that most of those ingredients are anti-inflammatory (he takes a lot of supplements for sport injuries).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
You could try goat's milk and/or raw milk.

I will test goat's milk but unfortunately raw milk is totally unavailable here in Canada as far as I know (strict regulations that are being enforced).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
See Yeast/Bacteria link here re: taking enzymes between meals
www.enzymestuff.com

That makes sense but I guess I should be taking Houston's No-Phenol or anti-yeast enzymes if I am concerned about yeast. Right now I am just taking Zyme Prime and AFP Peptizyde.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Not sure what to say except make sure to get some probiotics into him and see if there are any changes on that front.

He's been taking Udo's Choice Infant Blend probiotics and the Houston digestive enzymes for the past 2.5 months already, but no obvious changes.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Mine has always liked to chew capsules but perhaps he's just weird.









My ds is weird too - he absolutely loves chewing on salmon oil capsules!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Pee accidents usually mean yeast problems from what I've read in ASD community.

That's a new one on me! What is the ASD community (autism spectrum disorder??)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Do you want to post a sample diet for your DS and we can try to brainstorm for further help?

Thanks for the offer. Actually things are getting a bit better as ds is gradually eating more meat and vegetables, though not as enthusiatic about fish and ygghurt as he used to be. We've cut way down on the refined carbs but we still rely on them somewhat. Anyway things are in flux right now so I might take you up on the offer when our diet stabilizes a bit. I'm thinking that some really good stocks might help him and he might eat them too so I will work on that (I am a former vegetarian so all this stuff is new to me).


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Someone was looking for a Canadian Supplier of Nature Calm Magnesium? The Root of the Matter has a not-very-user-friendly web site but I ordered from them and they shipped promptly with no problems.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*

Sounds like thyroid problems.

So what can I do about it?
If the NT diet is not fixing thyroid problems, what will?
I've been using sea salt for months and not celtic, so I might be deficient in iodine? I know thyroid problems are complex, but I really don't know anything about how to treat it. The coconut forum has a ton of stories how CO is helping them. Well I just ran out of CO and can't get any more for a long time.
I'm also running out of CLO, so I expect things to get a lot worse.


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Subbing and coming to post my comments about Garden of Life Primal Defense powder.

For me, it has always been (like since it came out on the market) the *one* supplement that I could count on to keep my gut balanced. Gave me nice, perfect poops each morning - no straining, no gas - NO WIPING!
Then, out of nowhere it stopped working as well. A friend of mine who I had recommended it to for her son with Asperger's said he had also begun seeing less positive results and she thought it was because they had begun to add some dairy to the processing.
As I was seeking out a replacement I decided to just pick up the Primal Defense caps intead of the powder. I have a history of being able to absorb powders MUCH easier than caps (and forget about gel cap filled with oils) but I figured I'd give it a shot. Well, they didn't work. Not at all. It was like I had taken a completely different supplement than the PD powder! On the suggestion of a wise woman who works in the supplement dept of my favorite health food store, I tried the Garden of Life Digestive Enzymes. WHOA! They gave me a major symptom flare. I called the company and they asked a zillion questions. Turns out I wasn't the only one with a negative reaction and they gave me my money back.
I still needed a replacement probiotic and at that point (and currently) I really couldn't afford to spend $45 on Primal Defense so I bought a recommended new one on the market from NOW (less than $20 and contains similar strains/soil-based organisms like PD). I usually have good results with NOW supplements and so far I really like these probiotics.
Nothing seems to be working (and I mean nothing) during the second part of my menstrual cycles. Digestion deteriorates, IC symptoms flare and I feel generally crappy. Clearly there's a hormonal link despite my normal hormone tests. I really don't need a test to tell me my issues are related to my hormones and/or immune system.
So, that's basically what I'm trying to figure out now. Back to self-diagnosing and analyzing my health to death! Anyone else?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ercicaz*
I still needed a replacement probiotic and at that point (and currently) I really couldn't afford to spend $45 on Primal Defense so I bought a recommended new one on the market from NOW (less than $20 and contains similar strains/soil-based organisms like PD). I usually have good results with NOW supplements and so far I really like these probiotics.
Nothing seems to be working (and I mean nothing) during the second part of my menstrual cycles. Digestion deteriorates, IC symptoms flare and I feel generally crappy. Clearly there's a hormonal link despite my normal hormone tests. I really don't need a test to tell me my issues are related to my hormones and/or immune system.
So, that's basically what I'm trying to figure out now. Back to self-diagnosing and analyzing my health to death! Anyone else?








Thanks for the info. re: Primal Defense. I've been looking at that product for dd1.

I really like NOW brand supplements too - their B12 is by far the one that works best for me. I'll check out their probiotics. What is the name of the one you're talking about?

Re: menstrual cycles & gut - - me too! AF always messes with my digestion. It took me a while to link it solely to hormones, but that's all it is. I really really dislike that bit**.







Ah well, at least she waited 10 mos. pp this time. With dd1 she returned 6 WEEKS pp!


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
UGH, I feel bad for complaining about 3 (and DH is helping).

Have you tried high doses of vitamin C to neutralize toxins? I keep meaning to post that link to discussion w/ MT in N/I 101 thread.

Is she eating a lot of fruit?

There aren't as much lipases and proteases in lacto fermented foods as in capsules. Might be important for the proteins as well. I know DS has a protein eating bad gut bug for ex.

She normally "only" gets up 3 times. I'm going to start high doses of C for me in a week or so--right now I'm doing vitamin C flushes. She hasn't started on solids yet, and I'm not eating any fruit.


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Thanks for the info. re: Primal Defense. I've been looking at that product for dd1.

I really like NOW brand supplements too - their B12 is by far the one that works best for me. I'll check out their probiotics. What is the name of the one you're talking about?

Re: menstrual cycles & gut - - me too! AF always messes with my digestion. It took me a while to link it solely to hormones, but that's all it is. I really really dislike that bit**.







Ah well, at least she waited 10 mos. pp this time. With dd1 she returned 6 WEEKS pp!









It's called Probiotic Defense and seems to have a very similar ingredient profile as Primal Defence. Funny how the names are similar, too, eh? I'm noticing on their site that they also offer it in powder but they did not have that at my health food store. When I'm finished my bottle I think I'll see if they can order the powder for me.

re: gut/menstrual cycles - I was talking with my mother about this and she works in a large doctors office with a bunch of other women. She said almost all of them have stomach issues right before they get their period. I'm sensing the only difference (maybe not since I have no other information on their accompanying symptoms) is that when my digestion falters the rest of my body just seems to shut down and I am open to all sorts of pathogens, i.e. yeast and bacteria overgrowth. When I think clearly about it the one thing that stands out is leaky gut. If my gut wall weren't leaky I wouldn't have this constant barrage of pathogenic bugs wreaking havoc. Now, the question is...why do my hormones seem to be setting me up for this frequent inflammation?? Same goes for my IC symptoms. I had a great chat with a NP yesterday (who dx'd my IC after 15 years of no specialist being able to do so) who agreed that people who seem to have a similar profile as I also have a major hormone imbalance that does not necessarily show up on hormone tests. This is why my issues went away when I was pregnant. I'm just hoping with all my heart and soul that when I finally get pregnant again I'll have the same experience. What a nightmare that would be if it reversed and my symptoms worsened (as is the case for some people). Must. Think. Positive.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
So what can I do about it?
If the NT diet is not fixing thyroid problems, what will?
I've been using sea salt for months and not celtic, so I might be deficient in iodine? I know thyroid problems are complex, but I really don't know anything about how to treat it. The coconut forum has a ton of stories how CO is helping them. Well I just ran out of CO and can't get any more for a long time.
I'm also running out of CLO, so I expect things to get a lot worse.

Wasn't it just on the Nutrition/Immunology thread that the iodine patch test was discussed? Someone did it and is supplementing with iodine.


----------



## Manonash (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sierratahoe
Back to reality: Ok, now what do I do?? What kind of a doc should I be looking for? I simply cannot afford to have an appointment with every gut doc in town hoping against hope for one who has his/her head out of his/her arse and has heard of leaky gut or anything else slightly alternative. Nor can I afford to visit with every 'naturopathic' nutcase who just wants to rinse me out or give me a rubdown or stick needles in me (no offense to any who might find acupuncture helpful for their gut; I just doubt a session or two is going to heal me, nor is a massage or two). Should I aim for calling every D.O. in town and ask if they have experience with healing guts? Or just scrap getting help and focus on helping myself? What about tests? Could it be that I possibly actually don't need any testing and just need to experiment with what works for me?

Now for the million dollar question: I know this is called healing the gut, but, will there ever be a day when I don't have to fear certain foods? Will there ever be a day I can eat trigger foods without paying the price? Is it truly possible to make this all better and move beyond it, looking back at the experience and laughing nervously?
I have felt exactly this way! I know what you mean.

Quote:

re: gut/menstrual cycles - I was talking with my mother about this and she works in a large doctors office with a bunch of other women. She said almost all of them have stomach issues right before they get their period. I'm sensing the only difference (maybe not since I have no other information on their accompanying symptoms) is that when my digestion falters the rest of my body just seems to shut down and I am open to all sorts of pathogens, i.e. yeast and bacteria overgrowth. When I think clearly about it the one thing that stands out is leaky gut. If my gut wall weren't leaky I wouldn't have this constant barrage of pathogenic bugs wreaking havoc. Now, the question is...why do my hormones seem to be setting me up for this frequent inflammation?? Same goes for my IC symptoms. I had a great chat with a NP yesterday (who dx'd my IC after 15 years of no specialist being able to do so) who agreed that people who seem to have a similar profile as I also have a major hormone imbalance that does not necessarily show up on hormone tests. This is why my issues went away when I was pregnant. I'm just hoping with all my heart and soul that when I finally get pregnant again I'll have the same experience. What a nightmare that would be if it reversed and my symptoms worsened (as is the case for some people).
This has been my experience as well. I felt better gutwise during my pg and for a few weeks after DD was born, and then back to my old hurts again. I have no doubt that our cycles affect our bowels. In my experience though, my worst pain (neurological) occurs right before I ovulate. After I ovulate, I get really constipated (progesterone slows peristalsis, so in case the egg was fertilized and you're pregnant, the contents have longer to be absorbed. I think it's a nutrient sparing thing). I haven't had a period since DD was born, so what will happen then remains to be seen.

Sorry I posted and haven't made it back yet. I didn't even try to keep up







. When I first posted, I think it was like pg 11 of the last thread. When I'm able to come back a few days later y'all are already to page 20something! Wow, you all can post a lot







!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

we like to shoot the poop.....










ms "i think i'm a celebrity" AmyD







:


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

while visiting my folks, i was strolling through their grocery store and saw a product i wondered if anyone here had tried - Nutrition Now's Yeast Defense (e.g., http://www.nutrivene.com/view_item.php?ProductID=124). i really was looking at it as something my sister might try. she and her ds are battling thrush with NO help from docs - apparently the four docs she's seen don't believe Dr. Newman's (some famous doc in Toronto) protocol and will not give her nystatin for both herself and her ds. These @#[email protected]#$ docs claim that thrush can't be transmitted between mom and baby. Gah. I think she's going to try to get into Dr. Newman's schedule while she's in the area. I've pointed her to the cheat sheet, but with 2 little ones and the computer in a remote part of the house, she doesn't get online much.

ETA: she never listens to me coz i'm the big sis (she did cut out dairy and sugar but then started losing weight and she doesn't really have much extra to lose so she got scared). i did just find out that Dr Newman emailed her an Rx for something (though my mom was vague as usual).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

*OT...is it terrible of me to let DD cry for a minute in the middle of the night?* Last night she woke up 5 times, and DH's back was realy bothering him so he didn't get up with her at all. The third time she woke up, DH said, "Why don't you just let her cry for a while?" (we have distinctly different ideas on the "benefits" of CIO). So...just to appease him for a minute and because I was really exhausted, I lay in bed, thinking, "This will never work, she'll just get more and more upset." Lo and behold, less than two minutes later, DD stops crying and falls asleep. She was never really upset, just doing her, "Pick me up I'm tired of this" cry. I'm thinking, "If all I had to do this whole time was give her a minute to fall back asleep, I am going to be so mad!" So the next time she woke up, I lay in bed for a minute again...this time I could tell she was getting upset and was probably hungry, so I got up and nursed her. She woke up again a couple of hours later...I stayed in bed and within two minutes she was asleep again. I feel kind of bad for letting her cry, but maybe she just needs a minute to realize she can self-soothe (she used to do this but apparently forgot how). Is it okay to give her a minute or two and see if she'll fall back asleep on her own?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
*OT...is it terrible of me to let DD cry for a minute in the middle of the night?* Last night she woke up 5 times, and DH's back was realy bothering him so he didn't get up with her at all. The third time she woke up, DH said, "Why don't you just let her cry for a while?" (we have distinctly different ideas on the "benefits" of CIO). So...just to appease him for a minute and because I was really exhausted, I lay in bed, thinking, "This will never work, she'll just get more and more upset." Lo and behold, less than two minutes later, DD stops crying and falls asleep. She was never really upset, just doing her, "Pick me up I'm tired of this" cry. I'm thinking, "If all I had to do this whole time was give her a minute to fall back asleep, I am going to be so mad!" So the next time she woke up, I lay in bed for a minute again...this time I could tell she was getting upset and was probably hungry, so I got up and nursed her. She woke up again a couple of hours later...I stayed in bed and within two minutes she was asleep again. I feel kind of bad for letting her cry, but maybe she just needs a minute to realize she can self-soothe (she used to do this but apparently forgot how). Is it okay to give her a minute or two and see if she'll fall back asleep on her own?

i've started doing this when i remember. last night, ds nursed sometime around 1 or 2am - didn't look at the clock. then he latched on again around 3am and didn't unlatch until near 4am despite several attempts on my part. then cat #1 made a fuss (he pees where he shouldn't if we don't respond) - so off i went to see what was up with him. then cat #2 hopped on the bed and tromped on ds, tromped on me, started doing the kitty claw massage on parts of my head... musta been 5am by the time i got back to sleep. dh musta sawed down the whole of Hoosier National Forest during that time - never knew what happened. oh, and i think cat#1 has a leaky gut (or IBS) and his suspected food allergies (beef, pork, corn, wheat, fish, seafood) could probably be solved with the same battery of supplements (and perhaps a raw meat diet). dh draws the line with the expensive cat food - "no way are we sinking $$ into supplements for him"


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Thoughts from my biologist friend on Cellfood:

Quote:

I read the cellfood website. I don't think the product will harm you or Kate but I don't think it's cracked up to be everything they say on the website, I'd put the money you'd save from that into the girls college fund. I think you could get the same effect by eating a balanced healthy diet with fruits, veggies, green tea, and omega 3 rich foods... Cellfood has trace minerals which are fine, I think you could get what you need from a good multivitamin. *Also they say there are enzymes in the mix. That's okay except if you ingest Cellfood the enzymes will get denatured and lose function by your stomach acid.* Like I said, it won't hurt you but why pay more for something that isn't all that. I 'm skeptical in regard to the splitting water claim (hydrolysis), that would release hydrogen gas and oxygen gas, you'd have farty cells or farty blood. Typically, kids can do a hydrolysis experiment in the classroom using electricity, I think I did that in Bud Boltes class.

I read some of their DNA/RNA supplements and I think that's total doo doo.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

quick question. If one has malabsorption and/or poor fat digestion would that person have trouble gaining weight as everything is going through instead of into? Or is there some parallel process that would cause weight gain?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
quick question. If one has malabsorption and/or poor fat digestion would that person have trouble gaining weight as everything is going through instead of into? Or is there some parallel process that would cause weight gain?

intuitively, malabsorption would cause weight loss - as you say, everything races through and nothing is absorbed. unintentional weight gain, especially that associated with aging, seems to be a result of a slowing metabolism, though i imagine changes in hormone levels might also have something to do with weight gain (think about weight gain often associated with the pill).

ETA: not sure how reliable this information is, but this site http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/trea...WeightGain.htm lists the following as causes of weight gain: Hypothyroidism; Essential Fatty Acid Deficiency; Food Sensitivity; Cushing's Syndrome; Prescription Drugs; Kidney, Heart or Liver Disease; Emotional Eating; Blood Sugar Imbalance. or there's this one http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...21/ai_84599063 and this one http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/003084.htm . these should get you started.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *chlobo*
quick question. If one has malabsorption and/or poor fat digestion would that person have trouble gaining weight as everything is going through instead of into?
yes, this is what I was like before SCD. I'm almost 5'7" & my weight fluctuated btw. 115 & 125. I had people )twice) even ask if I had an eating disorder (I didn't - - I just couldn't keep weight on. I tried everything - - even added those silly protein shakes.









For the first time in my adult life I've been maintaining weight - - it's each time I weigh it's never off by more than 3 lbs. Always right around 135.









I know people w/celiac disease who could not absorb for obvious reasons, but I never had d. & still I wasn't absorbing nutrients.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
yes, this is what I was like before SCD. I'm almost 5'7" & my weight fluctuated btw. 115 & 125. I had people )twice) even ask if I had an eating disorder (I didn't - - I just couldn't keep weight on. I tried everything - - even added those silly protein shakes.









For the first time in my adult life I've been maintaining weight - - it's each time I weigh it's never off by more than 3 lbs. Always right around 135.









I know people w/celiac disease who could not absorb for obvious reasons, but I never had d. & still I wasn't absorbing nutrients.

Hmmm...maybe that's why I can't keep weight on, let alone gain weight (since about a year before DD was born)...I'm 5'8" and I weigh 112 lbs. I'd like to weigh at least 125. That gives me hope that I'll be able to gain weight once we're healed (having more of a food variety so I can eat more calories might help, too!).


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## Mynn (Nov 18, 2003)

:


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
He has been taken off enzymes and probiotics for complete CDSA. He totally regressed and is sleeping like crap. And the daytime behavior, OY! Ever hear of ODD, Opposition Defiance Disorder? Well welcome to my house, my normally very polite child is a juvenile deliquent. And people think I'm crazy when I see gut damaged children all around me just by their behavior... or to think I have indeed cheated autism by not vaxing him and keeping him on limited diet. Harumph!

Back to CDSA test. So stupid me says to the dr., "Well he cannot handle a lot of fruit, he gets loose stool almost immediately." (This CDSA you do a purge before several days of testing...) So I upped the fruit to get his solid stool to go mush and clean him out.

Cool thing is that he only had real mush for 2 days. Once I stopped extra fruit it started firming up again.

JaneS - I don't post often but read every post so I have been following your ds' progress. Here's a little background on me. I have been on SCD x 7 weeks but it has only been helping a little bit. I have been looking into other options for HTG and caedmyn referred me to the yahoo group candidasupport. It is really fascinating stuff and I am currently transitioning over to this program vs SCD. While on SCD, I noticed that we (ds and I) started getting worse (or feeling more like pre-SCD) when we added in fruit. The more fruit we added, the worse we felt, slept, etc.

When I read your post above, all I could think was that maybe ds has a yeast problem going on and that adding the fruit is feeding the candida, releasing the candida toxins and he is feeling worse. And I have been thinking the same thing when I read some of the other posts saying that the SCD is not helping or not improving people as much as they would have hoped, or that something is missing with their current program.

I would highly recommend you check out the info on candidasupport - http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/candidasupport/
One of the things that annoys me about yahoo groups is that you cannot just browse the site but you have to join. If you would like, pm or email me and I can send over a couple of the files from that group and you can take a look at them without having to join.

I hope this will help.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

I apologize for being OT with this thread but that water kefir thread isn't very active - I received some water kefir grains in a baggie and some liquid today and I don't know what to do with them, and there aren't any instructions. Do I strain them, discard the liquid, and store them in sugar water ? How much sugar would I need for 1 cup of water ? Do I store them at room temp or in the fridge ? I don't want them to die before I figure out what to do with them....thanks !

Linda B.


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

:


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
I apologize for being OT with this thread but that water kefir thread isn't very active - I received some water kefir grains in a baggie and some liquid today and I don't know what to do with them, and there aren't any instructions. Do I strain them, discard the liquid, and store them in sugar water ? How much sugar would I need for 1 cup of water ? Do I store them at room temp or in the fridge ? I don't want them to die before I figure out what to do with them....thanks !

Linda B.

To store them, strain out the grains (preferably not with a metal strainer). Mix 1 Tbsp. sugar and 1 c. non-chlorinated water in a glass jar. Add grains and store in fridge. Change the sugar water solution every week or 10 days.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
JaneS - I don't post often but read every post so I have been following your ds' progress. Here's a little background on me. I have been on SCD x 7 weeks but it has only been helping a little bit. I have been looking into other options for HTG and caedmyn referred me to the yahoo group candidasupport. It is really fascinating stuff and I am currently transitioning over to this program vs SCD. While on SCD, I noticed that we (ds and I) started getting worse (or feeling more like pre-SCD) when we added in fruit. The more fruit we added, the worse we felt, slept, etc.

When I read your post above, all I could think was that maybe ds has a yeast problem going on and that adding the fruit is feeding the candida, releasing the candida toxins and he is feeling worse. And I have been thinking the same thing when I read some of the other posts saying that the SCD is not helping or not improving people as much as they would have hoped, or that something is missing with their current program.

I would highly recommend you check out the info on candidasupport - http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/candidasupport/
One of the things that annoys me about yahoo groups is that you cannot just browse the site but you have to join. If you would like, pm or email me and I can send over a couple of the files from that group and you can take a look at them without having to join.

I hope this will help.

I emailed someone on that group last night about baby sleep issues...was that you?


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Thank you !!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
To store them, strain out the grains (preferably not with a metal strainer). Mix 1 Tbsp. sugar and 1 c. non-chlorinated water in a glass jar. Add grains and store in fridge. Change the sugar water solution every week or 10 days.


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## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

Called again today to speak with my GI. All I want is to go over each of the tests he ordered, find out why he ordered each one, what he was looking for, what the result is, what that means, and get a copy of the lab reports. I also wanted to ask again what he would be looking for during a sigmoidoscopy (that will NOT be done until postpartum) and what might be done for anything found from that. Long story short, nurse said she would take a message, but that it doesn't mean he will call me. Huh?!? I asked, "Is this typical for him, that he would not call a patient back with questions on test results in addition to others?" She said, "Well, I can't force him to call you." Oh. Boy. Then, get this: she brought up the sig that is still scheduled (I haven't cancelled it yet thinking that if I do, then for sure the doc won't call me) and my concern over having it while pg. She HAD passed that info on to the doc because he _called my OB and discussed it with him_. "And they both feel that having the procedure while pg will not be a problem. But the final say-so is up to you. Of course." (ie: "ok, stupid patient, TWO big bad doctors are saying you'll be fine and you're a moron if you don't have the test done now. Buuuuuut, if you want to cling to your weird idea that it might, somehow hurt your _precious_ baby (insert eyeroll) then have it your way.") So, my gut doc can find the time to call my OB (and I know they do not know each other because the gut doc had never heard of my OB's name when I said it when he asked) to refute my stance that it wouldn't be the best timing. But he can't pick up the phone to go over some tests with me. What's more, nurse tossed in the info that gut doc wants to remind me to work closely with my OB throughout the pg to make sure I am gaining weight and absorbing enough nutrients. Don'tcha think that would be a bit of info that might be beneficial to pass on to the patient?!?!? Rather than mention it third-hand as an afterthought on a call that the patient placed?!?! And, you know, frankly, it was none of my OB's damn business anyway. I only see him on the side for the testing I opt for; I actually am under a MW care and am having a homebirth. Now I have to deal with this subject when I go in for my next OB visit. How mortifying. And how do you tell an M.D. that his "colleague" is... well I won't type it, it isn't very nice.

Long story longer, I am 'scheduled' to receive a call from the GI sometime Friday evening.

I needed to get that off my chest.

Meanwhile, I am making some progress in learning about digestive enzymes!! I am drinking a serving of kefir every morning. Taking a dose of Benefiber every morning. Am waiting for my glutamine powder to arrive so I can start taking that. Am being faithful to my food journal (I find that such a pain and not really all that helpful because I cannot tell what food(s) may have caused what reaction (good or bad)).


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

Hello. I thought I would pop in and give an update.

I'm on an anti-candida vegetarian diet. It's been going pretty well, though some foods are easier to figure out how to cook than others. I'm probably losing some weight, unfortunately. Had some die off in the beginning. It's both interesting and frustrating to live without sugar... I don't crave the taste so much as the energy boost. And wish I could have it with breakfast.

My ND is increasingly convinced that I have parasites other than candida, and the candida is secondary and (maybe?) not so much systemic. Especially given my history of lots of travel to India and getting sick. I've been taking black walnut for some time but now we're going to follow more closely the regimen for deficient with (semi) cold in "Healing with Whole Foods". She feels that I should be doing much better than I am right now, so the treatment will become a little more intense.

Nonetheless my energy, moods, joint pain, and digestion are WAY better than they were in May/June. Digestion especially if I stay away from peppery foods and sometimes other hot foods. (Therefore I'm dubious about the raw garlic I'm supposed to start, but will try it.)

In some ways my routine has gotten too complicated, so I'm backing off a little to get the hang of it again with the new things added.

Today after an accidentally spicy dinner last night I'm wiped out, and my skin (which had improved radically and then got cystic again) has even gone into the all-over-tiny-breakout. So I'm planning to do something detoxing tonight, I might try an epsom salt bath with castor oil spread on some above-water skin areas.

I'm quite glad that I discovered this approach to food and health; I know that when I get better I will stick to it to a fair degree, (so many of the once-gross things I'm taking have become tasty, like the diluted vinegar) and look forward to the simplicity and health and crunchy-kitchen-ness I'll get to enjoy and share with my family.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Mamas,
This is OT but am curious about your responses particularly because I thought that these symptoms of dd's were all related to her gut issues.

Now I'm wondering if part of this is related to her teeth. I just have one of those gut feelings about this right now . . .

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=494174

I would







: any thoughts.


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
Called again today to speak with my GI. All I want is to go over each of the tests he ordered, find out why he ordered each one, what he was looking for, what the result is, what that means, and get a copy of the lab reports. I also wanted to ask again what he would be looking for during a sigmoidoscopy (that will NOT be done until postpartum) and what might be done for anything found from that. Long story short, nurse said she would take a message, but that it doesn't mean he will call me. Huh?!? I asked, "Is this typical for him, that he would not call a patient back with questions on test results in addition to others?" She said, "Well, I can't force him to call you." Oh. Boy. Then, get this: she brought up the sig that is still scheduled (I haven't cancelled it yet thinking that if I do, then for sure the doc won't call me) and my concern over having it while pg. She HAD passed that info on to the doc because he _called my OB and discussed it with him_. "And they both feel that having the procedure while pg will not be a problem. But the final say-so is up to you. Of course." (ie: "ok, stupid patient, TWO big bad doctors are saying you'll be fine and you're a moron if you don't have the test done now. Buuuuuut, if you want to cling to your weird idea that it might, somehow hurt your _precious_ baby (insert eyeroll) then have it your way.") So, my gut doc can find the time to call my OB (and I know they do not know each other because the gut doc had never heard of my OB's name when I said it when he asked) to refute my stance that it wouldn't be the best timing. But he can't pick up the phone to go over some tests with me. What's more, nurse tossed in the info that gut doc wants to remind me to work closely with my OB throughout the pg to make sure I am gaining weight and absorbing enough nutrients. Don'tcha think that would be a bit of info that might be beneficial to pass on to the patient?!?!? Rather than mention it third-hand as an afterthought on a call that the patient placed?!?! And, you know, frankly, it was none of my OB's damn business anyway. I only see him on the side for the testing I opt for; I actually am under a MW care and am having a homebirth. Now I have to deal with this subject when I go in for my next OB visit. How mortifying. And how do you tell an M.D. that his "colleague" is... well I won't type it, it isn't very nice.

Long story longer, I am 'scheduled' to receive a call from the GI sometime Friday evening.

I needed to get that off my chest.

OMG! I'm so sorry you are dealing with this, especially when pregnant. I've had major issues with doctors, too (like when a urologist told me to act like an adult when I was crying because I was in so much pain from the the procedure he was performing on my urethra - UGH!), so I can totally relate.
Frankly, I'm pretty surprised that they told you to go ahead with this procedure knowing that if, heaven forbid, something did happen to your baby they'd be sued out the ass. I mean, you'd think considering how *safe* OBs play it by giving every other woman a section that these guys you're dealing with would be a little more conservative. Wow. Stick with your gut, mama, and don't let them get away with this! Demand better care - if not from this schmuck than elsewhere!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

sierratahoe,
That is infuriating! I had a similar thing happen last week. Long story short: I called dd's allergist to get copies of her records to bring to an appointment w/a specialist. (Which never happened, but that's another rant.)

He would not speak to me directly on the phone but kept talking through his receptionist who kept putting me on hold. He refused. I informed them of my right to have a copy. Kept refusing. Would only send them to this new doc but not to me.

He finally got on the phone after I told his receptionist to tell him that my attorney would be contacting him to request the records. He had the idiocy to say, "I remember you being a very nice person. What happened to change your personality all of a sudden?"

Idiot.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Mamas,
This is OT but am curious about your responses particularly because I thought that these symptoms of dd's were all related to her gut issues.

Now I'm wondering if part of this is related to her teeth. I just have one of those gut feelings about this right now . . .

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=494174

I would







: any thoughts.

I know nothing about the teeth, but as far as the X-rays go...from what I've read we are exposed to low level radiation constantly (and naturally, from the sun among other sources), and an X-ray contributes such a tiny amount of radiation, that a few probably are not a big deal at all. Now I still would try to minimize exposure, but if you think there may be a problem, I don't think there is any harm in it. JMHO


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
*Caedmyn,*

The once a week cheat makes no sense to me based on my experience? Is that the candida support diet?


It was based on a conversation I had (via the candidasupport yahoo group) with the inventor of the diet. Basically I said that I had a real craving for pizza and wondered if one cheat would undo any progress I'd made on the diet. She said she didn't think so, and said that because of the difficulty of staying on the diet, she thought it was permissible to cheat occasionally, and she thought even once a week cheating wouldn't affect progress (although I think she meant more like eating a piece of bread or something, not a whole day's worth of calories in one meal!).

Some of her ideas are a bit different and I'm not sure I agree with all of them. For instance, she says reactions to foods are all either bad reactions to unhealthy foods, healing reactions to healthy foods, or die-off. She doesn't recognize a reaction to a food you don't digest well--if it's healthy (ie allowed on the diet, which is anti-candida version of NT) it's either causing a healing reaction or die-off.


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## tricia80 (Oct 28, 2003)

Ok I am a newbie and here to ask questions...

First stupid question.. what is SCD?? its 11pm after an evening shift and my mind is blank...

This is my situation.. I have a beautiful dd who is 7 yrs old and has ADD.. she is on meds Concerta... and lately even without taking her pill she complains her tummy is sore... and she is losing weight.. she lost 5 lbs in 2 months and currently weighs only 44lbs and thats the 5th percentile for weight... i get her reweighed tomorrow... she has had some behavior problems and we are elminating dairy and we get the results of her gluten testing... and she has eczema which never goes away... and gets better but only by using steroid cream for over 2 wks... which causes her skin to thin...

i have been told to view this thread... and here to learn.. where do i begin.. i'm soo lost..


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
sierratahoe,
That is infuriating! I had a similar thing happen last week. Long story short: I called dd's allergist to get copies of her records to bring to an appointment w/a specialist. (Which never happened, but that's another rant.)

He would not speak to me directly on the phone but kept talking through his receptionist who kept putting me on hold. He refused. I informed them of my right to have a copy. Kept refusing. Would only send them to this new doc but not to me.

He finally got on the phone after I told his receptionist to tell him that my attorney would be contacting him to request the records. He had the idiocy to say, "I remember you being a very nice person. What happened to change your personality all of a sudden?"

Idiot.

so get this... i sent in a request ot have ds's records from the allergist sent to our new family doc. they would charge us $15 to copy and send the records (ACROSS THE STREET) directly to the new doc, but if i wanted to haul my busy butt over to their office, i wouldn't have to pay anything. on the other hand, my former family doc (the one who told me to take tylenol long term to treat my pelvic symphysis issues) would have charged me $15 for my records (in addition to my hauling my busy butt to their office) but nothing when they send them to the new family doc (also just down the same street).

just let me carry around my medical records on an encrypted USB key or a smartcard or something...


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Re: Enzymes between meals
See the Yeast/Bacteria link at www.enzymestuff.com
Also Dr. Devin Houston of Houston Nutraceuticals is available to anyone for phone consult on enzymes. He is the real deal, he worked at Edward Howell's co. (literally the inventor of enzyme research).

Plant based enzymes work both in stomach acid and also neutral ph of small intestines. They definitely get thru. Pancreatic or animal based enzymes only work in neutral ph btw.

Re: Knocking this Sh** Out!
I hear you! But overwhelming your immune system in that way is not good either. Because you need the good bacteria to grow again and occupy the space you are making.

Re: A month of Healing for every year of Suffering
Yeah, actually that is about right for me. I've had gut problems for 10 years and really bad right before pg (multiple abx really killed me). The enzymes may have speeded it up just a tad.

So currently Im taking a probiotic with lots of starins, which says to take it once in the morning on an empty stomach. I also take acidophilus throughout the day with meals, but am now wondering (from previous post about healing the gut) if I should be taking bifidus instead?







: I also take a protease enzyme on an empty stomach/btwn meals (one form enzymedica called virustop - available at wild oats and had the most protease, but Im so overwhelmed by the enzyme info that I really still have no idea what to pick/trust. Problem is my stomach isent empty often b/c I am so freakin hungry lately







). I take an anti-fungal prescribed by my accu., and I am eating the anti-candida diet. I also take EPA (omega-3), prenatal, and zinc.

A few questions:

*I have never had noticable digestion problems, so am aiming the enzyme use at destroying the yeast, but given that this diet is so low in nutrients, I wonder if I should be taking others?

*People who take B12, vit. C ...(others) how many mg. per day?

*Im thinking of investing in CO for its gut healing/yeast unfriendly/capricylic acid containing properties. Good idea?

*If in fact its a month for every year, and I only noticed symptoms for two weeks.... seems like I should be in balance sooner than later yes? Im taking to heart cademyns comment about perhaps having some yeast issues prior that opened the door for this with the aabx use (1 week - jeez!) so will obviously stick to this regiment for awhile, but Im hoping that since I never had digestive/allergic/immuno issues in the past, I can return, more or less (likely less, since I can see incorporating some of these dietary things long term), to the foods I ate previously - lots of whole grains, some fruit, some veggies, some meat, little sugar. When you all talk about "healing" do you mean just symptom free or that you can return to some semblance of your old life? Im just having SUCH a hard time believeing that 1 wk of abx and my whole diet/lifestyle is down the drain for the duration







:

*Jane - you say Im lucky to be here post m/c - I feel quite sad and defeated to be here (sorry). Err, why am I lucky









Thanks for all the incredible ammounts of reading/research you all do! What an incredible group


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tricia80*
Ok I am a newbie and here to ask questions...

First stupid question.. what is SCD?? its 11pm after an evening shift and my mind is blank...

This is my situation.. I have a beautiful dd who is 7 yrs old and has ADD.. she is on meds Concerta... and lately even without taking her pill she complains her tummy is sore... and she is losing weight.. she lost 5 lbs in 2 months and currently weighs only 44lbs and thats the 5th percentile for weight... i get her reweighed tomorrow... she has had some behavior problems and we are elminating dairy and we get the results of her gluten testing... and she has eczema which never goes away... and gets better but only by using steroid cream for over 2 wks... which causes her skin to thin...

i have been told to view this thread... and here to learn.. where do i begin.. i'm soo lost..

SCD=Specific Carbohydrate Diet...basically the premise is to eliminate foods that are hard to digest, so the only carbs allowed are monosaccarides (sp?). Those include nuts (starting with nut butters), fruits, non-starchy veggies, meat, fats, and eggs, oh and some dairy, although it can be done without the dairy. It might very well help your DD--it seems to work fairly well for ASD kids and I believe ADD is somewhat related to ASDs.

Start with the cheat sheet stickied at the top of the forum...then come back here and ask questions


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
So currently Im taking a probiotic with lots of starins, which says to take it once in the morning on an empty stomach. I also take acidophilus throughout the day with meals, but am now wondering (from previous post about healing the gut) if I should be taking bifidus instead?







: I also take a protease enzyme on an empty stomach/btwn meals (one form enzymedica called virustop - available at wild oats and had the most protease, but Im so overwhelmed by the enzyme info that I really still have no idea what to pick/trust. Problem is my stomach isent empty often b/c I am so freakin hungry lately







). I take an anti-fungal prescribed by my accu., and I am eating the anti-candida diet. I also take EPA (omega-3), prenatal, and zinc.

A few questions:

*I have never had noticable digestion problems, so am aiming the enzyme use at destroying the yeast, but given that this diet is so low in nutrients, I wonder if I should be taking others?

*People who take B12, vit. C ...(others) how many mg. per day?

*Im thinking of investing in CO for its gut healing/yeast unfriendly/capricylic acid containing properties. Good idea?

*If in fact its a month for every year, and I only noticed symptoms for two weeks.... seems like I should be in balance sooner than later yes? Im taking to heart cademyns comment about perhaps having some yeast issues prior that opened the door for this with the aabx use (1 week - jeez!) so will obviously stick to this regiment for awhile, but Im hoping that since I never had digestive/allergic/immuno issues in the past, I can return, more or less (likely less, since I can see incorporating some of these dietary things long term), to the foods I ate previously - lots of whole grains, some fruit, some veggies, some meat, little sugar. When you all talk about "healing" do you mean just symptom free or that you can return to some semblance of your old life? Im just having SUCH a hard time believeing that 1 wk of abx and my whole diet/lifestyle is down the drain for the duration







:

*Jane - you say Im lucky to be here post m/c - I feel quite sad and defeated to be here (sorry). Err, why am I lucky









Thanks for all the incredible ammounts of reading/research you all do! What an incredible group

Bifidus is for EBF babies--not that it is bad for anyone, but the references to it are generally talking about babies.

Enzymes--I think the recommendation for yeast is to take Candidase with the Vira-Stop (Candidase has cellulases which are supposed to break down the walls of the yeast).

What foods are you eating on your anti-candida diet? It shouldn't be low on nutrients. You can take enzymes with meals if you want, though--Digest Gold by Enzymedica is a good one, or the Houston enzymes, or Thropp's Nutritional enzymes (similar to Digest Gold but quite a bit cheaper).

I think JaneS is referring to you being lucky by having a chance to heal yourself before pregnancy, so you don't end up having to try to heal a babe with food intolerances or worse like most of the rest of us here.

I'm taking a B complex vitamin (seems like it has about 100 mg of everything), and 4 mg of Vitamin C (3 of sodium ascorbate and 1 of rosehips/biovflavonoids).

I think healing means first symptom free and then being able to add other foods and remain symptom free. But not going back to the SAD, just adding other healthy foods.


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Cademyn,
Thank you. I did just manage to finish (almost) the treatment page on the candidasupport site, which answered a lot of my questions. Thanks for pointing me there. I have to say, its a bit of a relief that you think some of her tips are a little out there. The first day I started reading I thought, well, hmm...

Mostly Ive been eating a lot of eggs, meat, and nuts. I know she says that nuts need to b soaked, but I dont know if that's gonna happen. I also eat some veggies, but have not had much time for prep this week (my first week on the diet). I cant imagine that IM getting much for nutrients without fruit and much veggies. Dont know.

Have you ever taken a prescription med? It was interesting to find at the bottom of her article that she had used them. Obviously it depends when we ttc, but if we want to do it sooner than later (we do), I wont take a precrip med, or even some of the stronger antifungals. Do I need to be "healed" or can getting and being preg be incorporated into this lifestyle? Is that a stupid question - yeah ......

oh, and thanks for the coconut oil link. Can you post it again? (the $28 gallon source)


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*







Cademyn,
Thank you. I did just manage to finish (almost) the treatment page on the candidasupport site, which answered a lot of my questions. Thanks for pointing me there. I have to say, its a bit of a relief that you think some of her tips are a little out there. The first day I started reading I thought, well, hmm...

Mostly Ive been eating a lot of eggs, meat, and nuts. I know she says that nuts need to b soaked, but I dont know if that's gonna happen. I also eat some veggies, but have not had much time for prep this week (my first week on the diet). I cant imagine that IM getting much for nutrients without fruit and much veggies. Dont know.

Have you ever taken a prescription med? It was interesting to find at the bottom of her article that she had used them. Obviously it depends when we ttc, but if we want to do it sooner than later (we do), I wont take a precrip med, or even some of the stronger antifungals. Do I need to be "healed" or can getting and being preg be incorporated into this lifestyle? Is that a stupid question - yeah ......

oh, and thanks for the coconut oil link. Can you post it again? (the $28 gallon source)

Nuts are really hard to digest (speaking from personal experience)...nut butters are the easiest if you're going to do them. It is super easy to soak nuts, though--just get raw nuts, cover them with water and add about 1-2 tsp/sea salt per quart of water, and let them sit overnight. In the morning drain the water and dry the nuts either in an oven set on warm or in a dehydrator. Peanuts don't have to be soaked, just dry roasted, but they are supposed to be very prone to being moldy (bad for candida sufferers).

Animal products are actually more nutrient-dense than veggies and fruits. Hard to accept, I know, since we all get ingrained with "eat your veggies".

I haven't taken any prescription meds and won't. If I was super sick and nothing else worked I might consider Nystatin, though. If you want to do some of the stronger antifungals, go for it--you can always stop if you get a BFP, or even switch to something else during the two-week wait.. I can only do raw garlic since the rest are bad for BF'ing.

Theoretically you can do the diet while pregnant, but how well it would work in practice, once you factor in cravings, exhaustation, and/or morning sickness...you know how it goes.

CO--www.mountainroseherbs.com


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *bluets*
just let me carry around my medical records on an encrypted USB key or a smartcard or something...
no kidding. From now on I'm requesting copies right then and there. No exceptions.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Jane, did I not read you dissing Rubin at some point? I guess you have changed your mind?











Yes, I'm publically taking back *some* of my issues with him. I still think he is too high on marketing and too light on science... but the book "Patient Heal Thyself" is much better from a scientific reasoning basis than Maker's Diet.

(Why he had to have two books ... but I'll stop that rant right there b/c he is coming out with more one topic volumes soon: diabetes, cancer, etc.







)


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
JaneS - I don't post often but read every post so I have been following your ds' progress. Here's a little background on me. I have been on SCD x 7 weeks but it has only been helping a little bit. I have been looking into other options for HTG and caedmyn referred me to the yahoo group candidasupport. It is really fascinating stuff and I am currently transitioning over to this program vs SCD. While on SCD, I noticed that we (ds and I) started getting worse (or feeling more like pre-SCD) when we added in fruit. The more fruit we added, the worse we felt, slept, etc.

When I read your post above, all I could think was that maybe ds has a yeast problem going on and that adding the fruit is feeding the candida, releasing the candida toxins and he is feeling worse. And I have been thinking the same thing when I read some of the other posts saying that the SCD is not helping or not improving people as much as they would have hoped, or that something is missing with their current program.

Thank you, will join candidasupport and look around.









I'm also going to try cellulases on empty stomach again for him. I do think he has several things going on and that's possibly why the confusion and contrradictory stool tests. Today he is back to solid poo's and had these weird white strings come out... and I may have seen one of those rice things too.







:

I also wonder if yeasts don't appear on stool tests when it has reached the fungal stage and is burrowed in nice and snug in the gut lining?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
Subbing and coming to post my comments about Garden of Life Primal Defense powder.

For me, it has always been (like since it came out on the market) the *one* supplement that I could count on to keep my gut balanced. Gave me nice, perfect poops each morning - no straining, no gas - NO WIPING!
Then, out of nowhere it stopped working as well. A friend of mine who I had recommended it to for her son with Asperger's said he had also begun seeing less positive results and she thought it was because they had begun to add some dairy to the processing.
...

I still needed a replacement probiotic and at that point (and currently) I really couldn't afford to spend $45 on Primal Defense so I bought a recommended new one on the market from NOW (less than $20 and contains similar strains/soil-based organisms like PD). I usually have good results with NOW supplements and so far I really like these probiotics.
Nothing seems to be working (and I mean nothing) during the second part of my menstrual cycles. Digestion deteriorates, IC symptoms flare and I feel generally crappy. Clearly there's a hormonal link despite my normal hormone tests. I really don't need a test to tell me my issues are related to my hormones and/or immune system.

So, that's basically what I'm trying to figure out now. Back to self-diagnosing and analyzing my health to death! Anyone else?









I also wonder if you didn't just need more probiotics to overcome the hump?

Like I said in PM, I'd love to know exactly how hormones effect gut flora and the immune system... that's gotta be a reason why women are the ones who get a lot of yi and have IC.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia*
That makes sense but I guess I should be taking Houston's No-Phenol or anti-yeast enzymes if I am concerned about yeast. Right now I am just taking Zyme Prime and AFP Peptizyde.

Yes, No Fenol and Peptizyde between meals for yeast.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia*
He's been taking Udo's Choice Infant Blend probiotics and the Houston digestive enzymes for the past 2.5 months already, but no obvious changes.









Yeah, another tough nut like my DS. Is probiotics between or after meals? I seem remember Udo saying with meals for his?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia*
That's a new one on me! What is the ASD community (autism spectrum disorder??)

Yes autism spectrum ... ASD kids have significant gut problems and yeast/bacterial overgrowth. And nutrient deficiencies. They are definitely the canaries in the mine shaft. And when it comes to behavior/diet connection, they are the best place to learn. I was able to pinpoint so much about DS's behavior.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
no kidding. From now on I'm requesting copies right then and there. No exceptions.

Ditto. I'm getting the run around myself with Ped's office right now. They keep "losing" my request.


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I also wonder if you didn't just need more probiotics to overcome the hump?

Like I said in PM, I'd love to know exactly how hormones effect gut flora and the immune system... that's gotta be a reason why women are the ones who get a lot of yi and have IC.

Here's the thing, though...I do know you can have an overgrowth of beneficial flora, at least in the vagina. The key is to have a balance of good and bad, both in the gut and in the vagina, right? So, it just doesn't jive with me that more probiotics are the answer. I take supplemental probiotics and eat raw sauerkraut like it's going out of style. I should be totally in balance as a result, yet I doubt I am. This is why I think there's an immune system/hormonal component that I've been unable to treat.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tricia80*
Ok I am a newbie and here to ask questions...

First stupid question.. what is SCD?? its 11pm after an evening shift and my mind is blank...

This is my situation.. I have a beautiful dd who is 7 yrs old and has ADD.. she is on meds Concerta... and lately even without taking her pill she complains her tummy is sore... and she is losing weight.. she lost 5 lbs in 2 months and currently weighs only 44lbs and thats the 5th percentile for weight... i get her reweighed tomorrow... she has had some behavior problems and we are elminating dairy and we get the results of her gluten testing... and she has eczema which never goes away... and gets better but only by using steroid cream for over 2 wks... which causes her skin to thin...

i have been told to view this thread... and here to learn.. where do i begin.. i'm soo lost..











She is beautiful.









I firmly believe ADD is caused by other medical issues (gut related) and nutrient deficiencies. Ditto SID. ADHD. Autism. etc. etc. Like I said before I've done a lot of reading in the ASD community and this just jumps out at you. The brain needs specific building blocks to run on. If it doesn't get those, just like any machine, it breaks down or doesn't run right.

Have you tried cod liver oil supplements for the ADD? Omega 3 fatty acids are essential for humans. Native diets used to be 1:1 ratio with omega 6s (vegetable/nut oils). Now our food is not the same either. Grain feeding of chickens, cows, even our animal products contain way too many omega 6 fats. If they are fed their natural diet, grass, they contain more omega 3s, as much as fish in some cases!

Consistently in studies, 2 things are going wrong in people with eczema: gut flora and essential fatty acids. You might want to try probiotics, evening primrose oil in addition to the CLO. More info. in The Eczema Tribe thread.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
Here's the thing, though...I do know you can have an overgrowth of beneficial flora, at least in the vagina. The key is to have a balance of good and bad, both in the gut and in the vagina, right? So, it just doesn't jive with me that more probiotics are the answer. I take supplemental probiotics and eat raw sauerkraut like it's going out of style. I should be totally in balance as a result, yet I doubt I am. This is why I think there's an immune system/hormonal component that I've been unable to treat.

Really re: overgrowth of beneficial? More info on that please.

The lack of improvement in myself is what led me to investigating the toxin route. And nutrient deficiencies as root cause of *that*.

One thing I haven't said recently is that it could be that I've finally healed b/c I had my amalgam fillings out one year ago.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
*Jane - you say Im lucky to be here post m/c - I feel quite sad and defeated to be here (sorry). Err, why am I lucky









I'll come back for rest of your post, remind me... but wanted to answer this now.








Yes, to echo a pp, you are lucky to be doing this before you become pg with the baby you are meant to have.

When I had my m/c it was the most horrible time in my life health wise. No wonder I passed all this onto my child! I had no idea it would effect him. If only, if only...

I have a LOT of anger about how helpless and vulnerable I was to the medical field at that time and the mess they created in my life. Never again. I try very hard to look at it that I found out just in time to avert a more serious catastrophe in my family's life. This I can handle.

Plus my child gave me the chance to be healthy myself. I never would have found all this out and done all this without him. Maybe that is the case with your experience too. Who knows what an antibx would have done down the line to you and your child to be? Perhaps right before the birth if you test GBS+? Or right after labor without them telling you like what happened to me? Now you know better to refuse it and do something to prevent that possibility. You *are* very lucky.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Who knows what an antibx would have done down the line to you and your child to be? Perhaps right before the birth if you test GBS+? Or right after labor without them telling you like what happened to me? Now you know better to refuse it and do something to prevent that possibility.

And to say more on that to no one in particular ... I didn't put the _Causes of Autism_ and _Nutrition/Immunology 101_ thread links in the Cheat Sheet for nothing.

Gut flora and nutrition mean everything in terms of the health of our immune system and the very ability of our babies bodies and brains to be built. As one native culture used to say about the parents of a sickly child, "Well, they only have themselves to blame."

I don't necessarily think about "blame" now, because the truth about how really to take care of our bodies and health is so buried under a mountain of misinformation today. But it's a powerful concept. That you are literally in control. An enormous burden of responsibility. Difficult to face when you have a sick child, I know all too well. But it helps to do something when one is really pissed off!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Gut flora and nutrition mean everything in terms of the health of our immune system and the very ability of our babies bodies and brains to be built. As one native culture used to say about the parents of a sickly child, "Well, they only have themselves to blame."
You know, knowing what I know now about all this, that quote makes me







.

But those who have no idea about the extent of how much we really do pass on to our babes may be offended by that.

I am saying this because ironically, today at our mom's club meeting we had a nutritionist speak. I went only because she's getting ready to open up a new co-op here and I wanted to find out about that.

Guess what she talked about? ALL OF THIS. The gut/brain connection, how we mamas pass on good gut flora to our babes (or don't), the ASD connection; everything. I was floored really. I didn't expect it. She didn't say so but I know she's into the Body Ecology diet 'cause I saw her materials.

I'm excited that so many seeds were planted today. Lots of mamas were talking to her afterward about ttc and what asking what they should do now to prepare.


----------



## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Thanks. Ok, so I'm coming out of denial







: and realizing I've got to do something more than just pop some pills - mainly because at this point all I can eat that doesn't make the little one yak is sweet potatoes, squash and turkey, and I'm about to go insane with that diet. I'm on the probiotics and have started doing kefir even though it makes her yak.

So, JaneS and others who have btdt - how did you decide on SCD vs BED or any other diet? I've looked at both websites extensively though I haven't read either book yet. BED obviously looks like they are trying to sell you things, but what about the merits of each as a healing tool? I'll admit that I'm scared of SCD because of the first day diet that is listed on the website and I'm intimidated by making my own yogurt and kefir.

When I read some of these threads, I think our problems are so minor in comparison to some, but I know these things can spiral out of control. However, that gives me hope that our problems are curable without moving mountains. I'm pretty sure my gut was in good shape with my first pregnancy and birth - DD#1 had/has no issues and is very healthy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I tend to think yes, that generally means you have a problem. After all their gut flora and food is all from you and nature intended it to work. The following factors are only what I can think of off top of my head right now that damage gut flora:

1. Abx for you or babe before, during, after birth and pregnancy.
2. GBS/Yeast infection/digestive problem history.
3. Steriods, bcp's
4. Mercury fillings
5. Prophylactic abx as teenager for acne.
6. Supplementary formula
7. The Hep B shot given right after birth especially, and all vaccines are suspect.
8. Conventional meats/dairy contain antibiotics too.
9. Chlorine (pools esp.)
10. Exposure to chemicals/pesticides.

Start her on bifidus. For some reason her gut flora is off and possible her gut didn't seal up. Have you read "just one bottle" article in Cheat Sheet?

Raw foods do not have the right mix of enzymes for all food groups: proteins, fats, carbs. Digestive enzymes are much better if you are having trouble. Yes, a lot do make it thru to bloodstream, go carefully with a BF babe. That is why probiotics should be first thing you try IMO.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
But those who have no idea about the extent of how much we really do pass on to our babes may be offended by that.

I am saying this because ironically, today at our mom's club meeting we had a nutritionist speak. I went only because she's getting ready to open up a new co-op here and I wanted to find out about that.

Guess what she talked about? ALL OF THIS. The gut/brain connection, how we mamas pass on good gut flora to our babes (or don't), the ASD connection; everything. I was floored really. I didn't expect it. She didn't say so but I know she's into the Body Ecology diet 'cause I saw her materials.

I'm excited that so many seeds were planted today. Lots of mamas were talking to her afterward about ttc and what asking what they should do now to prepare.









Very cool!! I am passing info about healing the gut to anyone who will listen!

*Little bits of progress*
I know I have a long way to go but I thought I'd share how SCD has helped me...I get migraines and suffer from motion sickness esp when I go in an airplane. I had a 3 hr flight yesterday(with baby) and I felt great, not even a touch of nausea! This is the first time in my life I have not gotten sick (and did not have to drug myself up with Dramamine.) I think that my gut issues are closely related to my migraines and am glad to have some success.

Teeth-
Did someone ask about a tooth/gut relationship? I've been reading so many different threads I cannot keep them straight! Coincidence or no-DS got his first tooth 3 days ago even though he has been showing teething symptoms for 4-5 months. Could it be that my leaky gut is starting to heal and finally enabled his body to get what it needed to pop out the tooth?


----------



## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

I know that this thread, and the others, are packed with info, but sometimes it's hard to figure out what applies, so I hope it's okay if I ask a directed question:

DS is 3yo and has gut issues. He's allergic to tons of stuff, is on probiotics and L Glutamine to help his digestion (they help a lot), has too much yeast and too much anaerobic bacteria in his gut. All this being said, he's doing rather well with everything. He had reflux as a babe as well.

We're about to start TTC #2, and DW, who will carry the babe, is ready to take on healing her gut in order to provide the most healthy nurturing environment for babe #2. DW doesn't seem to have huge problems, but we do see links between her and DS. Mainly, she is gassy and often slightly constipated. She hasn't been tested for anything like yeast (never had thrush or anything). What course might she take to balance her gut before we make this next babe?

Thanks!
megin


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Anyone growing their own food, raising their own animals?? Look what I found (and dig around the website, seems to have some really interesting stuff)

http://www.purehealthsystems.com/soi...robiotics.html


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm researching cancer stuff right now (if anyone has extra internet time on their hands, feel free to look around, http://www.cancertutor.com/index.html ), but I found something that might be relevant to us gut people.....

http://www.purehealthsystems.com/beta-glucan.html


> "The broad spectrum of immunopharmacological activities of glucan includes not only the modification of certain bacterial, fungal, viral, and parasitic infections, but also inhibition of tumor growth." Nicholas DiLuzio, Ph.D. Department of Physiology Tulane University School of Medicine"


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## Cullens_Girl (Feb 6, 2005)

okay - I joined at the tail end of last month's thread...

was wondering if anyone here suffered from IBS? I'm considering getting a referral to gastroentologist(sp?)....


----------



## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Please help me mamas. I feel like my DS is on crack or speed right now. It is AWFUL!!!!!







:







:







:

He has been on diflucan for about 3 weeks to ward off extra yeast growth when he took atbx for bad gut bacteria. He's on lots of probiotics and L Glutamine as well.

We had a bad die-off day on the first day of diflucan, because he's also got lots of yeast overgrowth in that little gut. We started Vit C for that and it's seemed to really help. He gets about 3000mg spread over the day.

Today, however, he's been a disaster. Hyper, defiant, crazed with his body, VERY short nap, refusing sleep right now for over an hour (he's still awake). He can't stop moving or talking or flopping his body around. It's a mess.

He's eaten nothing different today. Or yesterday. But, he does have a red anus area.

Ack! What could be going on and what can I do about this. Fast! I feel like I need to detox this guy somehow.......

thanks!
megin


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

megin,
DD1's behavior is totally linked to what's going on inside of her. DD1's appetite will also wane w/die off. That's probably what's going on.

What has he eaten today?

Have you tried an epsom salt bath? That will help with die off though it makes dd1 hyper.

It seems to calm dd2 so you'll just have to try and see how your ds reacts to it. I think epsom salts help calm *most* kids.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Cullens Girl*
okay - I joined at the tail end of last month's thread...

was wondering if anyone here suffered from IBS? I'm considering getting a referral to gastroentologist(sp?)..
Yes, I was diagnosed w/IBS several years ago. I think many of us here have been.

Read the stickys at the top of h&h if you haven't already and check out the Specific Carbohydrate Diet.

Don't know what your symptoms are like, but mo is that you might want to try the diet out first before going through a bunch of invasive tests.


----------



## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
megin,

What has he eaten today?


Today he ate peanut butter on a brown rice cake, a raw food version of clif bar (dates and nuts mostly), a few fruit leathers, french fries (ack!), a cheetah bar (puffed brown rice), gfcf raisin bread, and some apple sauce. it definitely was a lighter eating day as far as he goes.

so, if it is die-off, i'll definitely try an epsom salt bath. what else shall i do?

thanks!
megin


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

DD1 gets a little nuts if she doesn't have enough protein -- - I was wondering if your ds had some today. DD1 also has an almost *immediate* behavioral reaction to ANY grain.

Epsom salt bath (or you can make your own cream if you're really ambitious!) and lots of







.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Oy protein! So hard with this one. (allergies and major food texture issues). He had some through peanut butter and some through water buffalo milk yogurt (strange enough for ya?). Grains, well, I think they are here to stay for DS. And he usually seems to tolerate them well -- at least the ones he can eat, which are few, since he's allergic to gluten.

I'll try epsom salts tomorrow if this persists. Thanks! I think he just went to sleep after fighting it for almost 2 hours. Oy again!

megin


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

DD2 is allergic to gluten too so our house is gluten-free.

I did give dd1 (who is doing the SCD with us) some quinoa pasta the other day (which had some corn in it too) and that turned out to be a total nightmare. Poor baby, she was soooo excited to have that macaroni though.

Today she was back to hurting from constipation and I'm







because I gave in to a weak moment.

(Of course, I guess it could have been the nuts she had yesterday too, but I suspect the pasta.)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yes I had IBS and it's gone.

See studies here: http://www.paratuberculosis.net/40do...ut_microflora/

It's imbalanced gut flora and inability to properly digest food. But no mainstream dr. will know that.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
Today he ate peanut butter on a brown rice cake, a raw food version of clif bar (dates and nuts mostly), a few fruit leathers, french fries (ack!), a cheetah bar (puffed brown rice), gfcf raisin bread, and some apple sauce. it definitely was a lighter eating day as far as he goes.

so, if it is die-off, i'll definitely try an epsom salt bath. what else shall i do?

thanks!
megin

I don't think it's die off, but the opposite ... all those sugars would make my DS the same insane person!

(Actually me too, back in the day, horrible anxiety, buzzing insomnia, nightwaking etc.)

Does he have soft stool and gas?

L- Glutamine also causes hyperactivity, I would pull it first to see if that is it.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I don't think it's die off, but the opposite ... all those sugars would make my DS the same insane person!

(Actually me too, back in the day, horrible anxiety, buzzing insomnia, nightwaking etc.)

Does he have soft stool and gas?

L- Glutamine also causes hyperactivity, I would pull it first to see if that is it.

Movin' over - - the boss is here.







:

Don't pay any attention to my posts - - I don't know what I'm talking about.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
I know that this thread, and the others, are packed with info, but sometimes it's hard to figure out what applies, so I hope it's okay if I ask a directed question:

DS is 3yo and has gut issues. He's allergic to tons of stuff, is on probiotics and L Glutamine to help his digestion (they help a lot), has too much yeast and too much anaerobic bacteria in his gut. All this being said, he's doing rather well with everything. He had reflux as a babe as well.

We're about to start TTC #2, and DW, who will carry the babe, is ready to take on healing her gut in order to provide the most healthy nurturing environment for babe #2. DW doesn't seem to have huge problems, but we do see links between her and DS. Mainly, she is gassy and often slightly constipated. She hasn't been tested for anything like yeast (never had thrush or anything). What course might she take to balance her gut before we make this next babe?

Thanks!
megin

What I say to everyone: Digestive enzymes every meal, between meals and lots and lots of probiotics. She might not need to change diet much, but needless to say no junk food at all.

See the thread "How Not to Have An Allergic Child" and do (or not do) all of those things with the new babe to be. I don't know what Quinn's history is, but formula or abx or vaxs, no way!

And I don't know your dietary philosophy is, but I sorely regret that I had not read "Nourishing Traditons" and "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" before pg. http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html

Did you see that _Prepping for Pg_ thread, I think I have it linked in Cheat Sheet?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Movin' over - - the boss is here.







:

Don't pay any attention to my posts - - I don't know what I'm talking about.

































OH please ... hey we all can experience this differently. Personally die off for me was headache, foggy head and nausea, but digestive symptoms generally got better not worse (ex. for constipation). It's SO much harder to guess what is going on with your child.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
DD2 is allergic to gluten too so our house is gluten-free.

I did give dd1 (who is doing the SCD with us) some quinoa pasta the other day (which had some corn in it too) and that turned out to be a total nightmare. Poor baby, she was soooo excited to have that macaroni though.

Today she was back to hurting from constipation and I'm







because I gave in to a weak moment.

(Of course, I guess it could have been the nuts she had yesterday too, but I suspect the pasta.)









Poor bunny! Gale Force has a corn allergy I think.

Tinkyada rice pasta is very good. When DS was still bf'ing he could handle that quite well...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Still







over here.

I really need some sleep!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Very cool!! I am passing info about healing the gut to anyone who will listen!

*Little bits of progress*
I know I have a long way to go but I thought I'd share how SCD has helped me...I get migraines and suffer from motion sickness esp when I go in an airplane. I had a 3 hr flight yesterday(with baby) and I felt great, not even a touch of nausea! This is the first time in my life I have not gotten sick (and did not have to drug myself up with Dramamine.) I think that my gut issues are closely related to my migraines and am glad to have some success.

Teeth-
Did someone ask about a tooth/gut relationship? I've been reading so many different threads I cannot keep them straight! Coincidence or no-DS got his first tooth 3 days ago even though he has been showing teething symptoms for 4-5 months. Could it be that my leaky gut is starting to heal and finally enabled his body to get what it needed to pop out the tooth?











I often think my motion sickness (as well as severe pg sickness) was due to poor digestion. I haven't been on a boat recently to test the first tho...

"Teething" for months without a tooth appearing is thrush I believe. And excessive drooling.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Still







over here.

I really need some sleep!

Don't we all... MT would whip our butts!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*SCD vs. BED*

I tried the BED first and it was too darn hard as a whole. The SCD has more "normal" food. But the dairy kefir really agreed with me.

I also didn't like the whole colonic aspect and the product hawking you also noticed of the BED. They do suggest enzymes though, that is a plus in their column.

Not sure how I feel about the food combining thing. I've read so many conflicting views on it, it's hard to know who or what to believe.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

My ears must have been burning. But I can barely see this computer screen -- I'm exhausted and think I'll take a nap.

Yes, I have a corn allergy. It's not so bad anymore since I consume it rarely and have stayed away from it for about three years now.

Megin -- Cut down the fruit and up the protein. My son would be an absolute monster on the diet. If you can get the milk version of that buffalo yogurt, make an egg nog: 1 cup milk warmed to body temp, dash of vanilla if he can have it. Separate an egg, add spoon of honey to yolk, mix. Slowly mix in warmed milk. Use the egg white for merengue cookies later. And never say things like "grains are here to stay" because you might jinx yourself.


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## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Answered the wrong post - please ignore.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Megin, what Amanda said! All those carbs are feeding the yeasties! Especially the fried and puffed stuff. Rice puffs have almost no nutritional value, but lots of sugars for the yeasties.

JaneS, what about the barley grass and oat grass in Primal Defense -- wouldn't they contain gluten? I noticed the Probiotic Defense has lots of copper in it -- 90% of the USRDA -- and it has seaweed in it. The whole green foods thing is a bit of a quandary, in that yes, chlorophyll is great and so are the vitamins, but of course sea veggies are SCD illegal and can be hard on anyone with autoimmune conditions. And then grasses are grains! Is there a version of the HSOs that doesn't have the grasses or algae/kelp in it? Another thing that makes me nervous about Primal Defense is that it doesn't actually state everything that's in there.

Going by migraines and motion sickness, SCD has not worked to heal my gut, I still get both, although less severe. I used to drink a Coke for motion sickness, now I have to tough it out most of the time (unless perrier or some such is available).


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## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
*Maybe that Cheat Sheet needs Crib Notes.*







:

1. Digestive enzymes with meals.
2. Enzymes between meals, esp. proteases and cellulases.
3. Yogurt/kefir/fermented foods/probiotics.
4. Cut out foods you determine that you cannot digest.
5. Add nutrient dense superfoods and good quality supplements.
6. Educate yourself on what is really a healthy diet... nutrient deficiencies can in themselves lead to many digestive issues.
7. If all the above doesn't work, investigate alternatives: anti fungals/bacterials, homeopathy, etc.

I think it's a *great* idea to add this to the Cheat Sheet sticky - at the top! Also I couldnt' find the prepping for PG thread link there (sis is TTC for the first time and has gut issues).


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Well I discovered that dd1's problem was probably not the pasta after all. . . this morning she had a huge mushy poopy and then explosive d. afterward. Yesterday she ate a granola bar that I made from p.butter, honey, nuts, & sunflower seeds. Poor baby never has had nuts or seeds like that before. The sunflower seeds came out whole.









It's reeeally hard for me to rememeber to go slowly with this process.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Thanks so much everyone for the replies!

We're doing a way lower sugar diet for DS today and so far so good. Although he is currently fighting a nap......

We try for protein as much as possible, but his allergies combined with oral defensiveness b/c of SID leaves his entire diet comprised of gluten-free grains, goat milk and yogurt, buffalo milk yogurt, occasionally nuts or peanut butter, and fruits. Oh, and eggs when the moon is just the right size and it's the perfect time of day. So, his diet is totally frustrating in terms of dealing with his digestive issues. The allergist (who does seem to be up on leaky gut) said we shouldn't try a no-carb diet right now because DS would wilt away, literally. So, we're waiting on that and trying other routes.

Low sugar low sugar low sugar -- our mantra for the day.

Thanks!
megin


----------



## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
What I say to everyone: Digestive enzymes every meal, between meals and lots and lots of probiotics. She might not need to change diet much, but needless to say no junk food at all.

See the thread "How Not to Have An Allergic Child" and do (or not do) all of those things with the new babe to be. I don't know what Quinn's history is, but formula or abx or vaxs, no way!

And I don't know your dietary philosophy is, but I sorely regret that I had not read "Nourishing Traditons" and "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" before pg. http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html

Did you see that _Prepping for Pg_ thread, I think I have it linked in Cheat Sheet?

Thank you!

I, too, can't find the prepping for pg thread -- can you direct me?

We'll definitely check out the books, too.

She started probiotics today. When you say lots and lots, would that be multiple capsules multiple times a day?

And in terms of enzymes, I'd love to hear what folks use and where you get them. What do you use at meals and which ones between? We want to get going with this asap.......I have the sense it will really make a difference for DW, and hopefully for the next babe! Luckily, her diet is pretty balanced and includes little junk, so hopefully adding this in will do the job.

Thanks again!
megin


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
Thanks so much everyone for the replies!

We're doing a way lower sugar diet for DS today and so far so good. Although he is currently fighting a nap......

We try for protein as much as possible, but his allergies combined with oral defensiveness b/c of SID leaves his entire diet comprised of gluten-free grains, goat milk and yogurt, buffalo milk yogurt, occasionally nuts or peanut butter, and fruits. Oh, and eggs when the moon is just the right size and it's the perfect time of day. So, his diet is totally frustrating in terms of dealing with his digestive issues. The allergist (who does seem to be up on leaky gut) said we shouldn't try a no-carb diet right now because DS would wilt away, literally. So, we're waiting on that and trying other routes.

Low sugar low sugar low sugar -- our mantra for the day.

Thanks!
megin

The nap fighting will take a long time to correct if the cause is based on digestive problems.

The SCD isn't no carb.

Banana pancakes are a good way to get eggs into a child: mash one banana, add one large egg. Fry in butter or coconut oil. Make small in size (silver dollar). Can also replace banana with one large rounded tablespoon of nut butter and add a bit of honey, vanilla and scant 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Well I discovered that dd1's problem was probably not the pasta after all. . . this morning she had a huge mushy poopy and then explosive d. afterward. Yesterday she ate a granola bar that I made from p.butter, honey, nuts, & sunflower seeds. Poor baby never has had nuts or seeds like that before. The sunflower seeds came out whole.









It's reeeally hard for me to rememeber to go slowly with this process.

Yes, that will probably do it ... except from my own experience I know that if my gut wasn't digesting corn and other grains, it made eating nuts and seeds worse.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia*
I think it's a *great* idea to add this to the Cheat Sheet sticky - at the top! Also I couldnt' find the prepping for PG thread link there (sis is TTC for the first time and has gut issues).

Sorry, I thought I put it in there...

*Prepping the Body for Optimal Pregnancy*
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=398509


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
JaneS, what about the barley grass and oat grass in Primal Defense -- wouldn't they contain gluten?

Since it's fermented. I'm not personally worried about the tiny traces.

*Up next: Transfer Factor.*
If anyone has any learning on this or wants to research along with me?
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/tf.htm
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/tf/s/tfkids.htm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Another thing that makes me nervous about Primal Defense is that it doesn't actually state everything that's in there.

? More info on this please... I chose the powder b/c it has so few ingredients.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
Thank you!

I, too, can't find the prepping for pg thread -- can you direct me?

We'll definitely check out the books, too.

She started probiotics today. When you say lots and lots, would that be multiple capsules multiple times a day?

And in terms of enzymes, I'd love to hear what folks use and where you get them. What do you use at meals and which ones between? We want to get going with this asap.......I have the sense it will really make a difference for DW, and hopefully for the next babe! Luckily, her diet is pretty balanced and includes little junk, so hopefully adding this in will do the job.

Thanks again!
megin

Prepping for Pg posted above and added to Cheat Sheet.

Yes, multiple capsules, multiple times/day and or homemade yogurt/kefir.

I like Thropp's Ultra for a good all around, it's also the most economical
http://www.throppsnutrition.com/ps_ElitezymeUltra.htm

See Yeast/Bacteria link at www.enzymestuff.com for ideas to take in between meals. Or you could just also start with your all around product too.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

thanks for the enzyme info! i think i'll try thropp's, but just wanted to check whether any of the ones from whole foods, such as solgar, the whole foods 365 brand, etc, would be good. we could avoid some shipping, then.........i'd love to know -- thanks!

thanks so much for all the wisdom here, mamas!

megin


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Oh crap...I think I did it now. My digestion was just starting to seem on the upswing when I took pyridium (urinary analgesic - I get chronic UTIs from sex and we're ttc so my doc prescribed it as a preventative) and had/have massive amounts of stomach pain. Burning/cramping horribleness. I had a terrible BM and know that tomorrow will be terrible as I tend to feel the full effects of a flare the following day, complete with indigestion, gas, etc.







: It's weird...I've used pyridium in the past and have never had a reaction like this.
I'm drinking kombucha and eating sauerkraut hoping to replenish the good guys. Ugh...and this was only the first day of dtd during possible ovulation. I still have a few days left. ACK!


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2002)

what i read is that the hormone your body pumps out in order to start the uterus contracting for your period, also makes your intestines contract so loose stools etc are common

been reading thru this thread, i'm sure a lot of this could be useful here at our house but honestly i can't even understand 3/4 of it so far! (esp. with all the abbreviations) for now i keep reading and regretting the fact that i didn't do well in chemistry because its sure starting to feel like i need a degree to understand this stuff!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Re: menstrual cycles & gut - - me too! AF always messes with my digestion. It took me a while to link it solely to hormones, but that's all it is. I really really dislike that bit**.








Ah well, at least she waited 10 mos. pp this time. With dd1 she returned 6 WEEKS pp!


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## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yes, multiple capsules, multiple times/day and or homemade yogurt/kefir.

I like Thropp's Ultra for a good all around, it's also the most economical
http://www.throppsnutrition.com/ps_ElitezymeUltra.htm


Thank you Jane I just ordered some. Looks like this stuff will also help DH. Wouldn't that be great!!! Crossing my fingers it does some good for both of us.

Question on glutamine: I ordered some, but that company had discontinued the brand I purchased. So I was looking for some more today, and one brand at least states "do not take while pg or lactating." Others just have the standard warning to check with your doc before taking any supplement if you are pg. And I thought that since it is just an amino acid, it would actually be good for baby and me? I'll hold off getting any until I know more.

Update on my flipping GI doc: idiot was scheduled to call me last evening- and didn't.




























I wrote a letter stating that I refuse to pay the dr bill. DH says I'm going to have to pay it anyway; I maintain that I didn't get the services expected for the fee, therefore I won't pay. We'll see...


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## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
what i read is that the hormone your body pumps out in order to start the uterus contracting for your period, also makes your intestines contract so loose stools etc are common


I experience this at AF. I've never been one to bemoan the arrival of AF (ok, except when TTC!), but since my gut issues have developed, AF-induced gut yuck is THE WORST. First day of AF is pretty much a guaranteed most-of-the-day on the toilet. Gross gross gross.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
for now i keep reading and regretting the fact that i didn't do well in chemistry because its sure starting to feel like i need a degree to understand this stuff!








I just said this to a friend of mine IRL.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Wow this thread is humming!

We have been gone all week. I managed to feed us for a week. Other than that it was horrible. Our "family vacation" was a big fiasco and dh is going to be in the dog house for a long time. I'm still furious with him for what he put me through this past week. DD has regressed a bunch. I think it was lack of sleep though. She acted at times like she got some illegals but I couldn't ever point to any. I cut out the enzymes to see if that made a difference and it didn't seem to. I can't wait to get back to our regular chiro appointments. Answering all the myriad questions about our diet wasn't fun either. At least everyone accepted it as a real issue but man I got tired of explaining ourselves. I also got tired of cooking in a strange place.

I'll read some time soon.

I'm wanting ideas on how to get a wider range of probiotics into dd. (that amish poop has been going through my mind all week.







) She eats lots of bubbies sourkraut and our own home made when I make it. Tons of yougart. I couldn't keep up with keifer, it just was too much and I think it wasn't good for us. She doesn't like beet Kvass. I love it when I have a stomach ache but had to throw mine out with the power outage. I'll have to make some more...

I just want my baby to be better. It broke my heart telling her no to all the fruit the rest of the kids were eating this week. Her one treat is the Ionic Fizz stuff and I can't give her too much of that or... We have been off fruit for 4 or 5 weeks I forget. Her poor vulva was so red and irritated all week. It made me want to cry at times. I know this takes time and I'm pretty sure we are dealing with celiacs on top of the yeast so I don't dare quit scd and introduce grains at this point.

I'll quit whining. I've gotta unpack. DH took dd to the park to give me a break.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*

I'm wanting ideas on how to get a wider range of probiotics into dd. (that amish poop has been going through my mind all week.







) She eats lots of bubbies sourkraut and our own home made when I make it. Tons of yougart. I couldn't keep up with keifer, it just was too much and I think it wasn't good for us. She doesn't like beet Kvass. I love it when I have a stomach ache but had to throw mine out with the power outage. I'll have to make some more...

What about homemade lacto-fermented salsa or pickles? The pickles at least are super easy to make and pretty mild tasting (at least the batch I made so far). Or maybe try JaneS's idea of culturing different types of probiotics in yogurt?








Sorry your week was so rough.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

As far as periods making digestive problems worse, a doctor from Texas, Dr. Roby, says it has to do with hormone allergies. His main specialty is allergies, though. See http://www.onlineallergycenter.com/hormoneallergies/
JaneS, re: the ingredients for primal defense not all being on there, I guess my concern was the "ionic plant based minerals" (which ones -- and in what ratios?), and also the fact that on BTVC it says that it contains kelp and algae, which the bottle does not say. Or does it?


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Crap! I just wrote a ton and then it disappeared. Im sorry this is more me me me, I just dont know where else to turn.

I am living in a nightmare. This has been one of the worst weeks of my life. Im sorry to sound dramatic, but its real. I was happy, hopeful, joyful before this. I was getting through mourning and feeling optimistic. Then this, and everything turned 180. I never had gut issues in my life. I cant believe Im here. I take abx for a week, start to notice my tummy doing wierd things, and feeling not quite right, and read about candida, and now Im almost despondent. I know, die-off right







Headeache and lethargy, not b/c you've just stopped eating all carbs coffe and chocolate; die-off. Depression and anxiety, not b/c the life you loved is gone; die-off. My head is spinning. I am incredibly afraid. I feel like this has taken over my life and I will never get myself back. My relationship with Dh is being sorely tested - as he is skeptical; would like me to eat some carbs and see if I get a reaction, which would either prove to me that Im acting out of fear or to him that somehting is going on, and I am completely acting in fear. I am borderline having a constant anxiety attack. What the hell just happened to my life!!? I didnt come to this with allergies or gut problems. Before I got pg I was having a great life - being in the moment, felling really healthy and strong, appreciating all I have. I am having SUCH a hard time believeing that this could happen in 2 weeks, and yet I do. Why? Because I match many of the vague descriptors. My *symptoms* were there for 4 days before I started making changes, so if you consider the *one month for every year of being sick* theory, I should be healed by now right







: Instead Ive tacked on the whole time of being pregnant, since the last time I actuially felt physically vital was right before we conceived, so that would put me at 2 mos and a few days of symptoms (which I didnt actually have, Im just rounding up), and then I just round up to 3 mos for the hell of it, which would put me at 10 days to *heal*. I havent had many symtoms during this week, except headache/lethargy the first two days, EXCEPT anxiety. But some moments, when I decide, ok, this is what it is, I just need to get on a protocal for say, 3 mos, I CAN have my life back, I just need to eradicate this stuff, or regain balance in my gut, I dont feel any *symtoms*. All the things I feel at this point could be very easily attributed to anxiety, and if I didnt know anything about candida, thats what I would think. But now my judgement, my instincts are thrown b/c I am scared. What if...? And then I come here and you are all so happy to be doing what you're doing. It's healed you, or is healing you! I didnt ever feel bad! And yes, maybe I had issues that this is bringing forward, but frankly, if I felt great and had hidden things happening in my body, I dont really care. Im one of the most health conscious people I know, but especially about sugar in the diet! How ironic can you get! Last night I took dd and ds to a potluck for dd's summer class. I ate nothing, and watched everyone socializing happily and enjoying a nice meal and playing with their kids, and I was starving and isolated and depressed (though putting on my act for the kids - who are my only source of joy. They and Dh. But I feel like a huge weight on this family, dragging us down. Maybe if I wasnt so hungry and weak, I dont know). I go between resignation, denial (maybe if I did eat some carbs like Dh thinks, it would be ok), and total anxiety and sadness and isolation. I cant talk about it with anyone, as they all suspect Im having a panic attack (or I imagine they do). I WISH there was a medical professional I could talk to about this who I trusted wasnt a hoo-ha and I could figure out if anything really is amiss. Where are they? How do you find someone who's scientific about this!

What does healed mean? When you say your healed, what does that mean? if I never had gut/allergy/etc trouble in my LIFE before this odd week after taking abx, it seems like I need to regain a balance in my gut and then I can return to a life that always worked for me. But then I read of how pernicious this stuff is, and I feel like I have a chronic illness and my life has just been pulled out from under me. I certainly have in mind "happiness is a choice" and "breast cancer fears me" as I write. I KNOW how I might sound. But really, right now, I just dont care. I have to talk to SOMEONE about how I feel or I WILL go insane. Why does every *success* story involve nystatin, and why dont I take it (oh right, b/c Im not even sure whats going on, but Im afraid eneough to starve my self this week and not want to cheat for fear of going "back to square one" as someone said on candidasupport, which is a very frightening place to be). Im ready to call Trent Nichols b/c of ericaz's experience, Im ready to have my Dh write me a scrip for nystatin even though I dont totally trust myself in all this (he's more ready to do the same to make me feel psychologically better). But even as I say that I think of a study he pulled up for me where two groups were given either nystatin or a placebo and both recovered from cadida overgrowth. That's just it, I dont know who to trust. You all sound so joyful and commited in this way of life, and that's great, but I dont want it! I loved my life as it was. I dont see this as an opportunity, and I really dont htink its just a bad attitude. I HAD the health I wanted. I always have. Now my tongue has a thin white coating and Im freaked! Im whittling away, eating spoonfuls of coconut oil (gag), choking down more meat and fat than I can stand just to stem the weightloss, scared, alone...

I dont know what Im looking for here. Not how lucky I am, or how this is a gift. Its not for me. Its very bleak at my house these days and Im looking for a light. I want my life back! I want my joy back! I want my kids and Dh back! I want my SELF back!!! please help

(I hope this didnt offend anyone. I do respect all that you now and have been through. I just dont feel like I belong. But then where do I







: )

Thanks for listening!


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Hey saskiasmom. Yep, it's pretty crappy to be on the diet. Damned crappy. I am one of those whose come out the other end and feel better for it, but I do remember those days. I was insane and more insane than normal (since I was pretty crazy for other reasons). You can try to slow the die-off reaction by adding a bit of carbohydrates. And since it sounds like you just took the antibiotics, I assume you are eating lots of probiotic food.

You might try to shore up the depression front too with omega 3 fatty acids and a good B complex vitamin. If you get muscle cramps and twitches, you might need magnesium. If your nails have white spots, if your nails or hair grow slowly, you might need zinc. All of these aggravate depression.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

saskiasmom,








Yes this whole healing process can be discouraging, depressing, and hard. Every one of us on this board has been there at some point. It will not always be like that, it does get better (not that there won't be intermittent frustrated moments).

A word of advice, said as nicely as possible: you need to stop worrying about the "one month for every year" thing. It is clearly driving you nuts. While it may be a general rule, each of us is individual and different people take different amounts of time to heal. But as I said before, you may have had problems for a while that you weren't even aware weren't normal. I started the whole healing thing because my daughter showed signs of food intolerances--I felt fine and didn't know I had any problems. But now that I've been doing this for awhile, I know I had many symptoms of yeast overgrowth--acne, low blood sugar issues, gas, constipation (I thought it was due to eating a low-fiber diet as it went away as soon as I added more fiber), itching in the nether regions (never had a yeast infection though), blisters on the bottom of my foot for no apparent reason (now I believe they were a fungal infection as they are gone), mild depression...there's probably others.

On the adding carbs thing--you will not necessarily know if the diet is helping you based on how you feel if you add more carbs or "illegal" foods. While many people feel lousy or have symptoms return when they eat illegal foods, I feel no different, so that's not an absolute guide.

If you want suggestions on meals or ways to get more coconut oil (that taste good, too), let me know I have quite a few. You can eat fairly "normal" meals--I have recipes for shepherd's pie, chili, chop suey among others.


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

wow..you people are so smart..i am trying to keep up!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

saskiasmom,
I think we've all been through the emotional part of starting this healing process. I didn't think I needed healing either. I NEVER had any type of yeast issues in my life, was not in any pain, ate whatever I pleased and didn't think much about my gut. Until I came here in the hopes of helping dd.

The first 3 weeks were the worst. It's hard trying to alter your lifestyle so dramatically all at once. I remember the second week standing in my kitchen just sobbing to dh about how hard it was and "why, why, why?"

You'll get past it. I promise. And, you will feel better for it.


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

Okay, I have a question. Let's see how non-rambly I can make this. I'm on an anti-candida diet. I'm supposed to start doing parasite cleanses. But this month there's too much going on, so I've been backing off. Friday, I thought it would be fine to eat something sugary. (VERY sugary, as I discovered. are regular people numb to sweetness?) Next day, it seemed like I had a cold, and indigestion too. Today, I just have a swollen throat (only on my right side) and a sensitive right eye. Meanwhile all my joint pain (which hasn't really come back yet) is always on my right side, supposed to be indicative of liver issues.

So the question: how likely is it that this is a flare up of yeast, or whatever?

I'm thinking of getting into grilling fish and eventually organic chicken, thoug I'm (not-strict) vegetarian and in particular avoid cooking meat at home. Mainly so that it's something easy and safe, and something I can get my DP to do when I'm really zonked.

In general, I'm so overwhelmed


----------



## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

I'm starting slowly into all this, and am getting ready to start making my own yogurt. But I'm confused about the bifidus issue in SCD. I know Elaine is very against it in a starter, but it is what infants need, right? I'm doing this to help dd, who is 9 weeks old with major food intolerances. And if I don't use it in the yogurt starter, should I keep taking my supplement that has it?

Thanks!


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I just wanted to point out that I just put links to all the past HTG threads. There is so much info in these threads and if anyone has a couple of weeks to yourself to spare, you should be able to sail through them









In searching for the links, I inadvertently found out that it was Jane's b-day last week, so a belated Happy B-Day Jane









sakiasmom, first off,







Are you familiar the stages of grief by Kubler-Ross, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_stages_of_grief If not, you might want to take a look at it. You are just at the beginning of this journey and I can guarantee you that when all of us started this journey, our emotions were very similar to yours. Without a doubt I could have written your post 4 yrs ago







: (oh dear, has it been that long). This is hard. Please, I'll say it again, this is incredibly difficult and I'm sorry you have joined us on the journey. It does get easier, I promise







And please don't worry about offending anyone, we.have.all.been.there. Please be gentle w/yourself.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

JaneS, that transfer factor page reminded a friend of mine of a scam one of her aunts was involved in that used egg antibodies. She said it was almost the same wording, only using colostrum where her aunt's had used egg antibodies.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou*
I'm starting slowly into all this, and am getting ready to start making my own yogurt. But I'm confused about the bifidus issue in SCD. I know Elaine is very against it in a starter, but it is what infants need, right? I'm doing this to help dd, who is 9 weeks old with major food intolerances. And if I don't use it in the yogurt starter, should I keep taking my supplement that has it?

Thanks!

Bifidus is what you need if you give it to your babe directly. You don't need to use bifidus for yourself, the 24 hr yogurt should be fine for you. If your gut is healthy and has the right balance of good bacteria your DD should get the proper bacteria (bifidus) for her through the BM.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Hey folks,

I'm about to take the plunge and make my first order for raw milk. Mostly I'll make yogurt for me and DW and DS will drink raw goat milk (and maybe I'll make yogurt for him too). I'm feeling a bit jittery, though, at this last minute moment about the whole raw thing. I know raw milk suppliers are super careful, but if something weren't right, what would I be looking for (in terms of symptoms, reaction, etc). And any words of reassurance?

Second, where can I buy the yogurt starter (I think yogurmet) that folks have mentioned around here?

Can't wait to take this plunge -- thanks for helping to make the landing gentler......

megin


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Anybody know anything about herbal teas? I'm thinking about buying some bulk herbs to make a tea for liver support and one for digestive support. The liver support blend I'm looking at has burdock root, dandelion root, echinacea, Oregon grape root, yellow dock root, and sarsaparilla. The digestive support blend has fennel, fenugreek, ginger root, and spearmint (it also calls for flax seed but I think flax is bad so I won't use that). Or a different digestive support tea (supposed to be stronger) calls for angelica root, ginger root, yellow dock root, fennel, cinnamon chips, and cardamom pods.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Cademyn - all of the herbs you mention for liver support are good for that, as are those for digestion. Although it would be weak (in tea), fenugreek is used to boost milk supply... Also, I would love recipes. If its easy to copy and paste into a pm, that would be great. Thanks

Thanks to everyone for your support. Today has been better; Im not thinking about it (trying hard not to), and, Ive been eating so much coconut oil that I think my body is getting to a non-starved state, so I can function without feeling mentally detached and physically weak. Had a great afternoon at the zoo with the fam.

I understand what your saying about having previous issues and now I can experience true health (or whatever). I know this will change my outlook on food and eating and self-care, but truly, I just want my tongue to go back to normal, and then I dont really care if I live with hidden issues caused by yeast







And I know there's not a timeline, per say. But Im wondering, when people talk about being *healed*, what does this mean to you? Do you then start eating more *illegals* or are you so converted to your new level of health that you arent tempted (I can imagine that). I feel so cut off from the mainstream, and I dont like it. Ive always been on the fringe as it is b/c of the way I eat, and now I feel like an alien. Food is so much a part of family, and community and social life - a part that I realize is very central to my life. Now I just shove fat and calories in so I wont feel awful. Its feels very sad to me - that's the part I just try not to think about.

So I know time is relative, but once you start this, are you all of the mind that you have started a new road in life? This is not to *cure* a problem like treating another sickness, but a new life? I really want there to be a treatment that has a beginning and end (athough saying that, I cant see dropping everything and going back after integrating this all for so long). How did/do you know when you've reached the end (like JaneS said it took her a year to be healed - what happened at the end of that year that told you you were healed?).

I at least want to feel like Im making progress, not like Im just starving the yeast but not killing it. That's what makes something like nystatin so appealing. Science/clinical evidence shows it works. If Im throwing myself into this, I need to know its moving forward, and at least I feel like with meds it would be.

Thanks again for listening and supporting and your thoughts.

Strength to us all!
jess


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

megin,
We've been using raw milk for yogurt since Feb. w/no problems at all. In fact, I never used *regular* milk for it at all.

To put your mind at ease, just think of all the crap that's in pasturized milk. Google it and read about the process. That'll make you feel better!

What really sold me on the raw milk was smelling it the first time I opened a gallon. It smelled awesome and tasty so rich and creamy!

Oh, you can get yogourmet starter at lucy's kitchen shoppe. I think it's lucyskitchenshoppe.com but not sure.

FWIW, I used it for the first time yesterday and I like using Dannon better. It's probably because that's what I've been used to but it seems that Dannon makes mine thicker and creamier than the Yogourmet. I think after this batch I'll go back to Dannon.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
megin,

Oh, you can get yogourmet starter at lucy's kitchen shoppe. I think it's lucyskitchenshoppe.com but not sure.

FWIW, I used it for the first time yesterday and I like using Dannon better. It's probably because that's what I've been used to but it seems that Dannon makes mine thicker and creamier than the Yogourmet. I think after this batch I'll go back to Dannon.

thanks for the mind-easing info on the raw milk/yogurt.

Do you mean a Dannon starter or just using some Dannon yogurt as a starter? Can you just use any yogurt as a starter (maybe Stonyfield?)? If so, how much and how do you add it to the warmed milk?

Thanks!
megin


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

If you're doing strict SCD, then only Dannon plain (not non or low-fat) is legal. No other brand.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AmyD*
In searching for the links, I inadvertently found out that it was Jane's b-day last week, so a belated Happy B-Day Jane
















: Jane!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
Oh crap...I think I did it now. My digestion was just starting to seem on the upswing when I took pyridium (urinary analgesic - I get chronic UTIs from sex and we're ttc so my doc prescribed it as a preventative) and had/have massive amounts of stomach pain.











Try high doses of vitamin C for UTI prevention.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
I just wanted to point out that I just put links to all the past HTG threads. There is so much info in these threads and if anyone has a couple of weeks to yourself to spare, you should be able to sail through them









In searching for the links, I inadvertently found out that it was Jane's b-day last week, so a belated Happy B-Day Jane

















"couple weeks to spare"

Thanks for the bday wishes ... but I'm trying to ignore this one!!!







:

DS kept saying I'm 59 to everyone for some bizarre reason!








At least he hasn't said that in a few days...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
thanks for the mind-easing info on the raw milk/yogurt.

Do you mean a Dannon starter or just using some Dannon yogurt as a starter? Can you just use any yogurt as a starter (maybe Stonyfield?)? If so, how much and how do you add it to the warmed milk?

Thanks!
megin

Stoneyfield would be good b/c it has L. Reuteri too. You can use any yogurt without additives unless you are doing SCD.

I think I linked yogurt instructions in Cheat Sheet? If not let me know b/c that should definitely be there!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Wow Jess, you have some tough questions we haven't been asked before.









First of all, the word on the street is that Nystatin really doesn't work all that well. And the thing is, once you kill the yeast, you need good bacteria to take over the space. Let's say you keep eating food that is not digested well... what do you think is going to take up the space? More yeast growing again. Or bad bacteria maybe. You can never kill it all off, the idea to get enough good bacteria to keep the bad ones down. I think 85% vs. 15% is the number Jordan Rubin talks about.

Our gut flora weights up to 3lbs. Think about how heavy 3lbs is, that's a LOT of little tiny bugs to grow and sustain!!

"Healing" for me was not having any symptoms: no gas, no foggy head, no insomnia or anxiety and normal stools, first with advanced SCD foods; dried fruit for ex. And then I tried real sourdough bread, no reaction.

Yes I did drop out of society for a bit. Still am in a way. But it's not hard, it becomes habit. And hey, I like being rid of 4 immune system conditions, some of which were VERY painful!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou*
I'm starting slowly into all this, and am getting ready to start making my own yogurt. But I'm confused about the bifidus issue in SCD. I know Elaine is very against it in a starter, but it is what infants need, right? I'm doing this to help dd, who is 9 weeks old with major food intolerances. And if I don't use it in the yogurt starter, should I keep taking my supplement that has it?

Thanks!

You should give DD a bifidus supplmenet directly. Work up to 3x/day. Yes EBF babes are (or all infants should be) something like 95% bifidus dominent.

I'm not sure I agree with Elaine on the bifidus issue for adults anymore, but not sure you want to hear that!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
thanks for the enzyme info! i think i'll try thropp's, but just wanted to check whether any of the ones from whole foods, such as solgar, the whole foods 365 brand, etc, would be good. we could avoid some shipping, then.........i'd love to know -- thanks!

thanks so much for all the wisdom here, mamas!

megin

Enzymedica Digest Gold is very good (they have many diff. kinds all reportedly good) at Whole Foods, but full price of course. Vitaminshoppe stores and online are cheaper.

However, even w/ shipping Thropps's still beats on price. And they ship quickly.


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## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Very interesting article quoted in another thread. Does that mean that all those researchers have crummy guts?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia*
I think it's a *great* idea to add this to the Cheat Sheet sticky - at the top!

I thought about this... but you know what, I'm not going to do it.
















I want people to read and take the time to discover and think about this. How it all applies to them and how they got into this mess to begin with.

I also think it needs to be this way so people will make a commitment, is that wrong?

I'll change my mind if you think I'm all wet. Or hey just put it up in the sticky yourself and







back to me. Not like I'm a mod and can delete it or anything.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia*
Very interesting article quoted in another thread. Does that mean that all those researchers have crummy guts?

Oh I spouted off on that one... thanks for linking.


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## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

JaneS, I understand what you mean, but I found your "Coles Notes" helpful even after spending many many hours reading about this stuff and getting professional advice on gut healing from an LC. I guess it depends on how one absorbs information. For me, reading a summary first and then reading the details helps me organize the information in my brain more easily - which is hard to do by reading forum threads (though I try to make my own summaries). Also, I figure that some folks aren't going to make a commitment but might still be helped if they just do enzymes and probiotics only. I know a great family with a high functioning autistic boy and they are simply not willing to do dietary stuff at all - their nutrition is terrible, they are overweight, and the mom has a gallbladder condition, etc. But enzymes and probiotics could possibly help their son right?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
JaneS, that transfer factor page reminded a friend of mine of a scam one of her aunts was involved in that used egg antibodies. She said it was almost the same wording, only using colostrum where her aunt's had used egg antibodies.

Whaaaaa?

MT recommends it so it must be good.









There are better places for info: http://www.transferfactorinstitute.com/

I finally found goat's colostrum too for DS. Mt. Capra makes it. Except I have to mortar and pestle the little bits (I open capsules and put in yogurt). DS still complains he gets "vitamin pieces" and spits everywhere...

Can you tell I'm desperate?









Dying to go to DS's second appt. w/ DAN dr. for "building immune system". This should be good. I hope. I want to be wow'ed.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia*
JaneS, I understand what you mean, but I found your "Coles Notes" helpful even after spending many many hours reading about this stuff and getting professional advice on gut healing from an LC. I guess it depends on how one absorbs information. For me, reading a summary first and then reading the details helps me organize the information in my brain more easily - which is hard to do by reading forum threads (though I try to make my own summaries). Also, I figure that some folks aren't going to make a commitment but might still be helped if they just do enzymes and probiotics only. I know a great family with a high functioning autistic boy and they are simply not willing to do dietary stuff at all - their nutrition is terrible, they are overweight, and the mom has a gallbladder condition, etc. But enzymes and probiotics could possibly help their son right?

Absolutely re: enzymes and probiotics. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. At beginning definitely? Not end?

I just want people to be able to go thru the life change I did, is that so wrong.







:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
Thank you Jane I just ordered some. Looks like this stuff will also help DH. Wouldn't that be great!!! Crossing my fingers it does some good for both of us.

Question on glutamine: I ordered some, but that company had discontinued the brand I purchased. So I was looking for some more today, and one brand at least states "do not take while pg or lactating." Others just have the standard warning to check with your doc before taking any supplement if you are pg. And I thought that since it is just an amino acid, it would actually be good for baby and me? I'll hold off getting any until I know more.

Update on my flipping GI doc: idiot was scheduled to call me last evening- and didn't.




























I wrote a letter stating that I refuse to pay the dr bill. DH says I'm going to have to pay it anyway; I maintain that I didn't get the services expected for the fee, therefore I won't pay. We'll see...

I hope your DH will see benefits too!

Not sure re: glutamine, Firefaery would be the one to know for sure. Hasn't she had that baby yet, where the heck is she? How dare she be too busy for us!









Or maybe Gale Force, I'll PM her.

Of course you could always just do bone broths for natural glutamine and awesome minerals for pg!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
AF-induced gut yuck











Now this is a phrase to remember...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Ooooh, I just saw the tiny print with the GI doc story... give 'em hell!!!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Wow this thread is humming!

We have been gone all week. I managed to feed us for a week. Other than that it was horrible. Our "family vacation" was a big fiasco and dh is going to be in the dog house for a long time. I'm still furious with him for what he put me through this past week. DD has regressed a bunch. I think it was lack of sleep though. She acted at times like she got some illegals but I couldn't ever point to any. I cut out the enzymes to see if that made a difference and it didn't seem to. I can't wait to get back to our regular chiro appointments. Answering all the myriad questions about our diet wasn't fun either. At least everyone accepted it as a real issue but man I got tired of explaining ourselves. I also got tired of cooking in a strange place.

I'll read some time soon.

I'm wanting ideas on how to get a wider range of probiotics into dd. (that amish poop has been going through my mind all week.







) She eats lots of bubbies sourkraut and our own home made when I make it. Tons of yougart. I couldn't keep up with keifer, it just was too much and I think it wasn't good for us. She doesn't like beet Kvass. I love it when I have a stomach ache but had to throw mine out with the power outage. I'll have to make some more...

I just want my baby to be better. It broke my heart telling her no to all the fruit the rest of the kids were eating this week. Her one treat is the Ionic Fizz stuff and I can't give her too much of that or... We have been off fruit for 4 or 5 weeks I forget. Her poor vulva was so red and irritated all week. It made me want to cry at times. I know this takes time and I'm pretty sure we are dealing with celiacs on top of the yeast so I don't dare quit scd and introduce grains at this point.

I'll quit whining. I've gotta unpack. DH took dd to the park to give me a break.

























Yeah our weeklong vaca wasn't fun in certain similar ways too. DS got a lot of fruit and slept horribly. I think he might have gotten illegals as well.

I don't know re: probiotics. DS is doing Mt. Capra Probiotics Plus and Mt. Capra Colostrum in addition to yogurt cultured with both ProGurt and L. Reuteri and tiny amounts of Primal Defense powder. Like I said earlier, I'm in desperation mode and just throwing everything at him.

I did see the biggest change with adding Nature's Way L. Reuteri so far I think. The other probiotics haven't been that long, plus he had to be off of them for almost 2 weeks for testing. WILL NEVER do that again, ever!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
JaneS, re: the ingredients for primal defense not all being on there, I guess my concern was the "ionic plant based minerals" (which ones -- and in what ratios?), and also the fact that on BTVC it says that it contains kelp and algae, which the bottle does not say. Or does it?

That's a good point re: minerals. I wonder if they would tell us, must be in the grasses themselves?

It used to contain seaweeds but doesn't anymore.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
I dont know what Im looking for here. Not how lucky I am, or how this is a gift. Its not for me. Its very bleak at my house these days and Im looking for a light. I want my life back! I want my joy back! I want my kids and Dh back! I want my SELF back!!! please help

(I hope this didnt offend anyone. I do respect all that you now and have been through. I just dont feel like I belong. But then where do I







: )

Thanks for listening!

I've been going backwards in thread so didn't see this until now....








x 10!

I'm not so joyful lemme just say ... I'm worried sick and am unbelievebly sad and incredibly frustrated about my DS, I just don't post about it. (Which is not to say you can't, honestly I think your post was great b/c *we've all been there!*)

I honestly think it's the depths of misery to be better myself. To have literally changed my life COMPLETELY ... BECAUSE of my son ... and to still have him suffering. It's horrible. It's like 'Sophie's Choice'.

Amy was awesome to post EKR's stages. That's totally what you go thru. Especially the bargaining stuff when looking at a cookie.









I wonder if those "healed" Nystatin people didn't regress? For how long did they monitor them? But hey, no one here has used it I think? You could try it and see how it goes. We don't know everything, we are all just learning too and sharing our experiences. Maybe you can add to them.


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## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
At beginning definitely? Not end?

Well, non-committed types won't necessarily read until the end but obviously it's up to you.








Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I just want people to be able to go thru the life change I did, is that so wrong.







:


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Not sure re: glutamine, Firefaery would be the one to know for sure. Hasn't she had that baby yet, where the heck is she? How dare she be too busy for us!









Or maybe Gale Force, I'll PM her.

Of course you could always just do bone broths for natural glutamine and awesome minerals for pg!

Firefaery's baby was due a few weeks ago and I have been wondering how she's doing.

The glutamine warning is a CYA warning, but one reason it's there is that there haven't been tests on pregnant and lactating women. I took a custom amino acid blend for depression while breastfeeding and would take it in a heartbeat again if I needed it while pregnant but that was all based on bloodwork. My approach now is the broth and raw milk approach to aminos.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I honestly think it's the depths of misery to be better myself. To have literally changed my life COMPLETELY ... BECAUSE of my son ... and to still have him suffering. It's horrible. It's like 'Sophie's Choice'.

I'm sorry Jane.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

saskiasmom,







to you. I think actually the anxiety is die-off, along with withdrawal. I've been there too. Still am, in a lot of ways. Also, I have had a similar problem with DH wanting me to introduce carbs, only it's with DS -- he wants me to introduce grains because ds is eating too much fruit. As an alternative to the fruit! As if that would help -- anyway, ds never really liked grains, and I'm beginning to understand why. And I do think that my eating will never go back to what it was, but that's a good thing. We all could use a little SCD in our lives!

JaneS, one thing about the transfer factor stuff is that it says that it's pasteurized -- wouldn't that destroy the antibodies??


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Wow - you guys have been chatty!

Jane...Thanks for the hugs. I'm fearful of Vitamin C as it tends to exacerbate all of my symptoms no matter what form/brand. This is also why I can't take multivitamins - they all contain Vitamin C. The only kind of C I have been able to take in the past was Acerola. It's in my kitchen cabinet and I've thought of taking it again but I'm nervous. At this flare state I don't want to do something that will worsen my symptoms.

A couple of things...

Raw milk - if you have any doubts about the safety of the milk you are buying, put it back. Where I live there are tons of sources (many from Amish farms) and my friends and I have created friendships with these sources. We visit the farms and spend time with the farmers and animals. Most of these farmers are opposed to becoming certified raw (this involves lengthy/frequent testing and filling out many forms) and I truly wish they'd just move forth with the procedure. But...it is what it is. That said, there are many MANY farms across the country that do offer certified raw and this, to me, is the best choice - particularly if the cows are Jersey and are 100% grass fed.

Social eating while on a special diet - For me this has been the hardest part to accept. My husband, daughter and I adore food and enjoy eating out. Clearly, this is not the best choice since about 8 out of 10 times either me or my dh feels like crap after we eat out - and this is with choosing the healthiest items on the menu. We're also social butterflies (at least Isadora and I are) and being so limited is difficult. Almost all of our close friends are into whole, organic foods, etc. and are knowledgeable about food sensitivities, so that helps but it's hard not to feel disappointed that I can't feel relaxed about eatng, always worrying about what's in this or that and scared that I'll eat something that will make me feel like sh!t. It's frustrating and annoying.

I want to plug that Optimal Digestion book again. It was one of the best books I've ever bought (and I have developed quite a library, lol) on digestion/yeast/holistic health and I have used it frequently throughout the years.

One of the things that I've picked up from the book is that people who have experienced these issues in the past are much more prone to developing them again in the future, sometimes despite the person's best efforts. It seems as though we are now predisposed and must remain diligent to not lose sight of what can happen if we binge on *illegal* foods. I'm an example of this - cleared myself up, got pregnant and felt great regardless of what I ate (so I ate lots and lots of illegal foods like ice cream, carbs, etc.) and this was totally my downfall as I am now back to square one. Luckily I have a history with all of this (and much more information at my disposal) so I don't think it'll take me nearly as long to improve as it did the first go around - that's not to say it's any less frustrating now, particularly since I have a child now to worry about as well.

On that note, it's important to realize that we are all different even though we seem to be suffering from similar issues. What works for one person may not work for another. I've only had poor experiences with enzymes and have taken a bunch of different brands. They have caused severe stomach burning (much like I get when I use Vit C) and I have returned them to the stores they came from. I have not tried to get them specially compounded at a pharmacist so I don't know if that would make a difference. According to Optimal Digestion authors, some people who have badly irritated digestive tracts do react negatively to enzymes so it's important to go slowly with them.
And, I recall trying l-glutamine in the past and not loving it. I know it can cause constipation in some people and this can be a problem for me.

As for nystatin not working long term - well, I don't know. I took it my first go around and had great results but this time, not so much. I took it a few months ago and still don't feel all that fabulous. I think it's because yeast is not my big issue anymore...it's more about healing the lining of my gut as well as the lining of my bladder (having symptoms in both areas).

I want to look into this product as it is one that Optimal Digestion authors highly recommend. I'd like to take this in conjunction with either Chlorella or Chlorophyll (I'd prefer the first but it could be too cleansing for me now) and hope that my husband and daughter can take them as well. Dh has a history of digestive woes (mostly ulcer related but who knows what it is now) and my daughter (who has not had these digestive issues in the past) has recently been complaining of a belly ache. I'm not sure if there's something truly going on with her or if she is just mimicing me since I'm frequently complaining about my gut. I'm leaning towards the former, though, since she's had some nasty poops the last few times and seems to be in one of those cycles of nasty poop one day, no poop for a day or two, belly ache/bad poop the next. Grrr. Poor thing.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I know this stuff is expensive but anyone think it might be worth it??? http://www.customprobiotics.com/


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I know this stuff is expensive but anyone think it might be worth it??? http://www.customprobiotics.com/

They sound pretty good to me--I especially like the fact that they don't have FOS.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I know this stuff is expensive but anyone think it might be worth it??? http://www.customprobiotics.com/
I am liking the sounds of this one:
D-Lactate free probiotic formulation, most specific for autistic children. It consists of L. Salivarius, L. Rhamnosus, B. Bifidum and B. Infantis at 250 billion cfu's/gram. Price: $165 per 100 gram; $100 per 50 gram.

I really need to go back and read Goodpapa's probiotic thread again. . .


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Was just reading goodpapa's thread and also remembered Jane mentioning L.Reuteri a few posts back. . . .

I'm starting to think that my no-longer-b'feeding dd1 needs this. (She's the one with NO lactobacillus showing on her CDSA.)

Just wondering, since it isn't SCD legal (right?) if any of you mamas are using it. Jane, have you tried this w/ds?


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## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneS
*
Bristol Stool Scale*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Stool_Scale
Anyone have a similar link for the poop of an exclusively breastfed baby? Although this is my second baby, I've had extreme breastmilk oversupply problems with ds and dd (green, liquid, frothy poop) so I'm not used to the various poops we are getting now. I'm testing foods following a long elimination diet of dairy, gluten, rice, soy, almonds, chocolate, and oranges. When I tested wheat dd had mucus in her poop right away so I knew that was not OK, but I'm unsure about other poop issues (consistency, colour, frequency).


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Slightly OT, but I'm looking for lunch ideas. Seems I'm ok about menu planning for breakfast and dinner but I have a tendency to get stumped on the midday meal. Suggestions??


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia*
Anyone have a similar link for the poop of an exclusively breastfed baby? Although this is my second baby, I've had extreme breastmilk oversupply problems with ds and dd (green, liquid, frothy poop) so I'm not used to the various poops we are getting now. I'm testing foods following a long elimination diet of dairy, gluten, rice, soy, almonds, chocolate, and oranges. When I tested wheat dd had mucus in her poop right away so I knew that was not OK, but I'm unsure about other poop issues (consistency, colour, frequency).

Dr. Jay Gordon's site...

*The Color of the Day: Solving Bowel Movement Mysteries*
http://www.drjaygordon.com/developme...ricks/poop.asp

I do not agree with this statement however:

Quote:

Babies have blood in their stool fairly often and it virtually never is the sign of serious illness,
Maybe his definition of "serious" and mine are different. He also never mentions intestinal flora which is a huge oversight. There is a huge reason why BF babies stools are described as smelling like yogurt. Oh well, he is an M.D. I guess!

P.S. realized I never said this: blood in stool "fairly often" means their gut never sealed up as it was supposed to. Huge risk for dysbiosis and food allergies and immune system problems.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

hiccup!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
Slightly OT, but I'm looking for lunch ideas. Seems I'm ok about menu planning for breakfast and dinner but I have a tendency to get stumped on the midday meal. Suggestions??









Soups, salads, leftovers, egg dishes, sandwiches made from the nut butter bread recipe I posted here:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...60#post4679460

(homemade almond butter from blanched almonds gives most mild tasting result)

P.S. you should see that SCD Chefs thread, probably more ideas in there. I thought there was another one in that Meal Planning forum too... ?


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Thanks, Jane.
Yes, we do all of those things - lots and lots of soups (we're in the process of starting a soup business) and leftovers. I enjoy salads very much, but not dd. She's not a fan of greens (unless they're in soup) at all. We also do lots of eggs, but I'm feeling bored by it all. KWIM?

That bread recipe looks awesome. I'm slightly concerned about the honey, though. Have you not had any digestive disturbances from it? I'll have to check out my dog-eared copy of NT. I have never soaked cashews...only almonds.
Anyhow, thanks for commenting.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Was just reading goodpapa's thread and also remembered Jane mentioning L.Reuteri a few posts back. . . .

I'm starting to think that my no-longer-b'feeding dd1 needs this. (She's the one with NO lactobacillus showing on her CDSA.)

Just wondering, since it isn't SCD legal (right?) if any of you mamas are using it. Jane, have you tried this w/ds?

Yes I have. DS actually used to be on this when he was bf'ing, before SCD. It really firmed up his poop then and it's doing that again now. I culture his yogurt with it added to the ProGurt. One of the links talks about it producing oxygen I think that is good for detox and killing bad bacteria? Something like that...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
That bread recipe looks awesome. I'm slightly concerned about the honey, though. Have you not had any digestive disturbances from it? I'll have to check out my dog-eared copy of NT. I have never soaked cashews...only almonds.
Anyhow, thanks for commenting.









I don't use honey for the bread, just the cake version. Sorry directions are so confusing!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Erica,

Sodium ascorbate is the ph neutral form of vitamin C (buffered, NOT ester C). If you get brave, this might be worth a try. Seek out the thread of that same name and you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know about vit. C!


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

JaneS,

A few pages back you mentioned a thread called "how not to have an allergic child." I did a search and it turned up 51 pages of results. Ack!

Can you (or anyone else) point me to where to find it, or how I can narrow that search a bit?

Thanks!
megin


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

to all you knowledgeable probiotic mamas

I am totally







: about all the different strains of probiotics and what their function is, etc. I just looked up the reuteri that Jane's DS is getting and saw this:


> Our Top-Selling probiotic brand Primadophilus blended with clinically proven Lactobacillus reuteri. Reuteri is one of the first strains of friendly bacteria to pass from mother to child where it rapidly colonizes and becomes an important part of the gastr ointestinal flora.


Really interesting b/c my poor lil' guy was transferred to the NICU after birth and not allowed to breastfeed for a couple of days.







Not that it did anything to him or anything







But I wonder if the reuteri might be the key for him.

My question, is there a website that lists a bunch of these probiotic strains?

Thanks
Amy


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

ooohh, found this one:

http://www.innvista.com/health/nutri...cs/proborg.htm


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

megin,
Here's the thread.

Amy,
THis is my newest project: Learning about probiotics. I'm reading the Power of Probiotics thread (again) and got almost 1/2 hour today uninterrupted time on it (highly unusual!) and am only up to pg. 10.

There are people on there discussing the product you posted too. So far, people have talked about it but I haven't read anyone who actually bought any of the custom probiotics yet. I'll link to it if I find any info. (I am really thinking about trying some.)

Oh, if anyone wants it, here's the link to The Power of Probiotics.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
megin,
Here's the thread.

Amy,
THis is my newest project: Learning about probiotics. I'm reading the Power of Probiotics thread (again) and got almost 1/2 hour today uninterrupted time on it (highly unusual!) and am only up to pg. 10.

There are people on there discussing the product you posted too. So far, people have talked about it but I haven't read anyone who actually bought any of the custom probiotics yet. I'll link to it if I find any info. (I am really thinking about trying some.)

Oh, if anyone wants it, here's the link to The Power of Probiotics.

Thanks Annikate!

Oh, and for those wondering, I'm taking the raw milk leap. Thanks for the support yesterday!

megin


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Question re: Baby Jarrow:

Didn't someone a while ago post about their forumlation changing? Jane, do you remember? And did you used to use this product too? I'm thinking of trying it for dd1. (?)

Need to do some more reading though . . .
ETA: Just decided against Baby Jarrow.









Oh! and will post some more on that Transfer Factor stuff too . .. . later. Got some info. from my scientist g'friend on it and tons of links that are waaaay scientific. I need interpretation. So far it looks like there is more than 1 type of *transfer factor* in the human body.

Quote:

From an Immunology Text:
"Transfer Factor is a necleopeptide whose mode of action is undetermined but appears to stimulate the release of lymphokines from sensitized T-cells."
Maybe MT would know about this?


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

My mom was trying to get me to buy some Jarrow brand stuff for my dc's..

her bottle said "Free of common allergens". Nowhere on that label did it say it contained milk products. But when i got online, everyone i looked at said it was made from milk.

I cant give my kids that! It would kill them!


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

A really interesting article, from an alternative site I like a lot:

http://www.alternativementalhealth.c...es/enzymes.htm


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I am also educating myself about probiotics, working my way through the power of probiotics thread. L. rhamnosis, l.reuteri, and l.plantarum look especially beneficial for my yeast problem and Nolan's eczema. I am doing the SCD but am open to using different probiotics than BTVC recommends. Jane- I would like to hear your opinion on why BTVC says no bifidus.

Next batch of yogurt I am going to try goat milk to see if it makes a difference with Nolan's eczema.

I truly appreciate the honesty of all the mommas here. This healing process is challenging both physically and emotionally and it helps me to know that I am not the only one struggling through this. The first few weeks on the diet I felt like a raving maniac. I did not enjoy being around my baby and I felt so guilty to be having these feelings. The diet is also putting a strain on my marriage. DH will not read any of the literature/websites and will not take my word about leaky gut/yeast.







to us all during these trying times.


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

hello gut healers...
i have been following this thread for some time now. thank you for all of your wonderful advice, insights and information. a bit of background: ds2 is 19mths. and has been fighting eczema and food allergies/intolerances probably since birth (i have a past history with yeast...). we started out with eliminating dairy, wheat and soy from my diet in the first few months of his life...tried probiotics (not steadily or enough of them)...have sought out more doctors, naturopaths, health gurus, etc. than i care to think of now, tried naet treatments (which i thought were a lifesaver since they worked awesome for a while...i now realize that both ds2 and i have such damaged guts that the naet was unable work for more than a short period of time, but i have hope for it for other allergies once we heal)...the whole story is way too long to type tonight.

point being: we are now trying the scd which we slide into from an elimination diet. the ed was soooo difficult for us...ds2 never actually cleared up enough to challenge any of the probable problem foods. my concerns with scd is that he cannot tolerate dairy, eggs, soy, peanuts, tree nuts, gluten, rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes, bananas, onions, coconut, pineapple, avocado ( i know many are illegals...just giving more info as i type)...and is already not even on the 'charts' for weight. we basically eat fruits, veggies, beans and meat...i do my best to buy organic, wild caught, grass-fed. if anyone has any suggestions...i am all ears. ds2 loves veggie/fruit shakes...any ideas for adding protein to them?

is there anyone out there with a dc with a suspected milk allergy who is able to tolerate the 24hr yogurt?? we've tried raw milk (which ds1 and dh love), raw yogurt, goats milk...and although he doesn't seem to itch like with other suspected triggers, he does get bright red behind the legs, in the crooks of his arms and by day two of having small amounts his scrotum gets red and itchy (to the point where he grabs it and digs with his nails...sorry if tmi it's pretty sad to watch).

re: custom probiotics...i just placed an order for them last night...prior to educating myself about die-off and yeast, i thought ds was allergic to something in the previous probiotics (mainly the milk proteins)...i am taking the leap and spending the $$ to try these. i'll let you know how it goes. i have also ordered us some broad spectrum enzymes and digestive enzymes...hoping this will help....thanks for all the links and info regarding enzymes.

a bit off topic...l-glutamine was recommended for both ds and me by a naturopath and several others...saying it had the same basic healing power as cabbage broth (which i was drinking lots of...but trying to get ds to drink was impossible). i stopped the l-glutamine for the elimination diet (all supplements should be stopped...an integrative medicine doc said most people don't know {me included} b vitamins are typically grow on yeasty hosts...he gave other examples of hidden allergens as well)...point being i started it up again since i felt crazy about trying to help ds and i thought...hey, it's just an amino acid...nothing else...then while looking something completely different up in the dictionary...i pass glutamine...related to glutamic acid...which is obtained by hydrolysis from wheat gluten and sugar-beet residue. well, the limited testing we did do on ds showed a high (normal range was 0-20 and his was 82) count for gluten allergy. i was stunned to learn about the glutamine...sometimes i think i am soooo overwhelmed with trying to help ds heal and stay sane that i did not research this one enough. i have since taken him off the glutamine and have been strict (as i can...especially since he is not gaining weight) with scd. does anyone have any info on this...know about glutamine and gluten???

thanks for listening...i know this was a long one...i have learned my lesson...stop just reading and interject once in a while.

i appreciate all that you have offered...thank you.
peace


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
P.S. realized I never said this: blood in stool "fairly often" means their gut never sealed up as it was supposed to. Huge risk for dysbiosis and food allergies and immune system problems.

DD has had blood streaked poop twice. Both times were with diarrhea and they were the last *squirts*, if you will.







The first time was at 10.5 months, and the second time was a couple months after that. No diarrhea since. Is this a cause for concern?


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Erica,

Sodium ascorbate is the ph neutral form of vitamin C (buffered, NOT ester C). If you get brave, this might be worth a try. Seek out the thread of that same name and you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know about vit. C!

Jane, I did a search using sodium ascorbate as the key words and came up blank. Are there other key words I might be able to use to find the thread?


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
a bit off topic...l-glutamine was recommended for both ds and me by a naturopath and several others...saying it had the same basic healing power as cabbage broth (which i was drinking lots of...but trying to get ds to drink was impossible). i stopped the l-glutamine for the elimination diet (all supplements should be stopped...an integrative medicine doc said most people don't know {me included} b vitamins are typically grow on yeasty hosts...he gave other examples of hidden allergens as well)...point being i started it up again since i felt crazy about trying to help ds and i thought...hey, it's just an amino acid...nothing else...then while looking something completely different up in the dictionary...i pass glutamine...related to glutamic acid...which is obtained by hydrolysis from wheat gluten and sugar-beet residue. well, the limited testing we did do on ds showed a high (normal range was 0-20 and his was 82) count for gluten allergy. i was stunned to learn about the glutamine...sometimes i think i am soooo overwhelmed with trying to help ds heal and stay sane that i did not research this one enough. i have since taken him off the glutamine and have been strict (as i can...especially since he is not gaining weight) with scd. does anyone have any info on this...know about glutamine and gluten???









:
As far as I know there's no coorelation between l-glutamine and wheat and that it's recommended in most cases of leaky gut/dysbiosis/gut disease (including those caused by infections or immune-deficiency) as a tool to heal inflammation.
I went ahead and bought the Seacure and l-glutamine yesterday...I'm feeling optimistic about pairing them along with lots of probiotics.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
Jane, I did a search using sodium ascorbate as the key words and came up blank. Are there other key words I might be able to use to find the thread?

Were you searching the vaccination forum? That's where it is.


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Were you searching the vaccination forum? That's where it is.

I just did a general search using the search function. Doesn't that search all of the board subtopics?


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Here it is. I am subscribed to it so I can find it easily under my User CP. However, before that, I could never find it either.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=353318


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## BoogieMama (Aug 8, 2006)

Hey Mamas,

I read through as much of the archived threads & the links as I could last night without finding some of the answers I need, so I thought I ought to post for help.

When my ds was about 5 mo, I took him to a kinisesiologist who put me on a candida diet- no grains, no soy, no dairy, no sugar, no fermented food. He's been doing better & is generally in good health, though I can't slip up even a tiny bit. I do eat corn, which was not specifically proscribed.

For reasons of extreme flakiness, I was never able to follow up with the kinisesiologist (he never returned calls, showed up for the follow up appt), so I am left with a number of questions.

My big one is that I am starving. I have lost about 25 lbs in 6 months, and my milk is getting very slow to come in. I eat monstrous amounts of food, but it never seems to be enough. Because it takes so long to prepare food, some days (with two kids at home) I can't manage to feed myself until lunchtime, by which time I am almost passing out. I tried digestive enzymes, but they didn't stop the weight gain, rather they just gave me explosive diarrhea. Likewise lactose free acidophilus for ds gave him horrible poops.

After reading more about candida & related diets, I also wonder whether I'm just maintaining the bacteria at a low level. Should I follow a much stricter diet than the kinisesiologist recommended? What about food combining? We eat a LOT of fruit and beans (remember I'm a veg), which seems to be a no-no on these kinds of diets....

I went to a pediatric gastroenterologist yesterday & he refused to say anything about the condition, noting that candida is not a pathology he recognizes & that if I want to treat it, I have to go the alternative medicine route. My partner suggested I try to learn more online before I go screwing around to 10,000 more specialists, so I discovered you all & the SDC diet, and so forth, but I'm still a little lost. I don't feel comfortable with self-diagnosis, and I'm not even clear that it IS candida. Would it help to get my midwife (my only trusted alternative care practitioner) to order me some tests to diagnose this all properly? Is a half a candida diet enough to clear this up? Am I going to suffer severe bone loss (like my mother says) if I don't resume eating dairy products? Do I need to find another source of probiotics?

Any ideas you all have would be very very welcome. I'm going to the kid's pediatrician this morning who is open to alternative medicine, but feels that this is all outside of her purview.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BoogieMama*
Hey Mamas,

I read through as much of the archived threads & the links as I could last night without finding some of the answers I need, so I thought I ought to post for help.

When my ds was about 5 mo, I took him to a kinisesiologist who put me on a candida diet- no grains, no soy, no dairy, no sugar, no fermented food. He's been doing better & is generally in good health, though I can't slip up even a tiny bit. I do eat corn, which was not specifically proscribed.

For reasons of extreme flakiness, I was never able to follow up with the kinisesiologist (he never returned calls, showed up for the follow up appt), so I am left with a number of questions.

My big one is that I am starving. I have lost about 25 lbs in 6 months, and my milk is getting very slow to come in. I eat monstrous amounts of food, but it never seems to be enough. Because it takes so long to prepare food, some days (with two kids at home) I can't manage to feed myself until lunchtime, by which time I am almost passing out. I tried digestive enzymes, but they didn't stop the weight gain, rather they just gave me explosive diarrhea. Likewise lactose free acidophilus for ds gave him horrible poops.

After reading more about candida & related diets, I also wonder whether I'm just maintaining the bacteria at a low level. Should I follow a much stricter diet than the kinisesiologist recommended? What about food combining? We eat a LOT of fruit and beans (remember I'm a veg), which seems to be a no-no on these kinds of diets....

I went to a pediatric gastroenterologist yesterday & he refused to say anything about the condition, noting that candida is not a pathology he recognizes & that if I want to treat it, I have to go the alternative medicine route. My partner suggested I try to learn more online before I go screwing around to 10,000 more specialists, so I discovered you all & the SDC diet, and so forth, but I'm still a little lost. I don't feel comfortable with self-diagnosis, and I'm not even clear that it IS candida. Would it help to get my midwife (my only trusted alternative care practitioner) to order me some tests to diagnose this all properly? Is a half a candida diet enough to clear this up? Am I going to suffer severe bone loss (like my mother says) if I don't resume eating dairy products? Do I need to find another source of probiotics?

Any ideas you all have would be very very welcome. I'm going to the kid's pediatrician this morning who is open to alternative medicine, but feels that this is all outside of her purview.

I think you will have a very hard time clearing up candida while eating fruit, which is a big candida feeder. Beans are also very hard to digest. There is a yahoo group called candidasupport--I am following their program right now. Corn is also bad for candida sufferers. Naturally fermented foods are actually great for candida sufferers as they provide you with good bacteria. Based on what I've seen on this group, I think it is unlikely that the SCD will help you if you have candida, you need an anti-candida diet.

As far as diagnosing candida, my understanding is that there are no laboratory tests that are accurate for it. The recommended tests for diagnosing candida are the spit test and Dr. Crook's questionaire--sorry I don't have links right at the moment but you can search for them.

You can substitute homemade bone broths for dairy (don't worry, they are super easy to make). I have read that one cup of properly prepared bone broth has the same amount of calcium as 4 cups of milk. If you were drinking pasturized homogenized dairy you weren't getting much calcium out of it anyway.

I have lost some weight on the different diets I've been on. One thing that has helped on this diet is eating a ton of (healthy--coconut oil, animals fats, butter) fat. That helps fill me up and is very nourishing. I have lost 4 lbs in 6 weeks on this diet, but it was all when I had a stomach flu. I am not eating as much as I was on the SCD, either, and I am not as hungry.


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BoogieMama*
Hey Mamas,

I read through as much of the archived threads & the links as I could last night without finding some of the answers I need, so I thought I ought to post for help.

When my ds was about 5 mo, I took him to a kinisesiologist who put me on a candida diet- no grains, no soy, no dairy, no sugar, no fermented food. He's been doing better & is generally in good health, though I can't slip up even a tiny bit. I do eat corn, which was not specifically proscribed.

For reasons of extreme flakiness, I was never able to follow up with the kinisesiologist (he never returned calls, showed up for the follow up appt), so I am left with a number of questions.

My big one is that I am starving. I have lost about 25 lbs in 6 months, and my milk is getting very slow to come in. I eat monstrous amounts of food, but it never seems to be enough. Because it takes so long to prepare food, some days (with two kids at home) I can't manage to feed myself until lunchtime, by which time I am almost passing out. I tried digestive enzymes, but they didn't stop the weight gain, rather they just gave me explosive diarrhea. Likewise lactose free acidophilus for ds gave him horrible poops.

After reading more about candida & related diets, I also wonder whether I'm just maintaining the bacteria at a low level. Should I follow a much stricter diet than the kinisesiologist recommended? What about food combining? We eat a LOT of fruit and beans (remember I'm a veg), which seems to be a no-no on these kinds of diets....

I went to a pediatric gastroenterologist yesterday & he refused to say anything about the condition, noting that candida is not a pathology he recognizes & that if I want to treat it, I have to go the alternative medicine route. My partner suggested I try to learn more online before I go screwing around to 10,000 more specialists, so I discovered you all & the SDC diet, and so forth, but I'm still a little lost. I don't feel comfortable with self-diagnosis, and I'm not even clear that it IS candida. Would it help to get my midwife (my only trusted alternative care practitioner) to order me some tests to diagnose this all properly? Is a half a candida diet enough to clear this up? Am I going to suffer severe bone loss (like my mother says) if I don't resume eating dairy products? Do I need to find another source of probiotics?

Any ideas you all have would be very very welcome. I'm going to the kid's pediatrician this morning who is open to alternative medicine, but feels that this is all outside of her purview.

Welcome...and sorry you are going through all of this as well.
You might want to seek out either a chiropractor or a acupunturist to help you to get a CDSA (comprehensive diagnostic stool analysis) but know that these tests can be pricey and aren't always accurate. It could possibly come back with information saying there isn't anything going on when in fact there is. Some practitioners recommend doing several of these tests in order to get true results. For me it only took one time (I did come back with all sorts of yeast/bacteria overgrowth and markers for leaky gut) but I've heard stories of people with obvious issues having results that don't show any problems.

There are different tests that other people might be able to recommend as well, but I only have experience with the CDSA (and the last I heard it was the gold standard to determine how your gut is functioning).

As for you being starving all the time, you might want to consider a supplement I just picked up. It's called Seacure and it's packed with large amounts of protein and essential fatty acids. Aside from supporting the gastrointestinal tract it also provides nutrition as it was originally developed in response to the protein needs of malnourished infants and expectant mothers in third-world countries.

And, I know this is a sticky subject for most people and being that I used to be a vegetarian I can empathize...but is there any chance you would consider adding animal products to your diet? When I began my healing myself back in the day I was macrobiotic and found that I was losing weight way too fast and was always starving. I began studying other diets (most importantly Weston Price/Nourishing Traditions) and realized, despite my stance on eating meat I wasn't doing what was best for my body. It was a long process to get from there to where I was comfortable with cooking meat but I was amazed at the changes once I added those foods back into my diet. I apologize if this offends you...just sharing my experience.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

There are a lot of former vegetarian/vegans on this thread. I was one for 10 yrs, and then diagnosed w/cancer so a lot of good that did me









We decided to go back to meat, and I was not happy at all about it. (And I was the one who made the decision,







) We were vegetarians for ethical reasons. We were not healing, and in fact, we were suffering. Our health, despite my 100% organic, 100% whole food stance, was suffering. I really felt like I was left w/no other choice but to go back to meat.

My 4 yr old was confused. We had always told him that other families chose to eat meat, but we didn't like killing animals when we didn't need it to live. Well we explained to him that nothing really has changed, that we hate that we are killing animals, it makes us very angry, BUT we are not well. We want to get better and if eating meat will help us, maybe it is something we should try.

Since starting meat, I feel fantastic. And I never felt un-fantastic, iykwim. Have you read Nourishing Traditions yet about the native diets? Mind-blowing.

Not trying to convert you, but letting you know that there are many of us here that have btdt.









Bone broths are fantastic for minerals and such. If you want to go that route.

I always eat a huge serving of kale







every day or every other day. A whole bunch or two all by myself.

Why aren't you doing dairy again? We can tolerate (I am allergic to cow) raw goat milk yogurt and we do a lot of that. That totally satiates me.

In the am, I eat yogurt and that satiates me for some time. Another good idea for a very quick breakfast is: 2 bananas (very ripe w/spots), some raw honey, cinnamon, up to a can of coconut milk (w/o soy lecitin in it, brand, Native Forest--which does contain guar gum, but reading old old healing gut threads it was decided that the small amt of guar w/doable). Start slow on the coconut milk, if your body is not used to that huge amt of fat you.will.get.incredibly.nauseous. BTDT, have the T-shirt


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Jane, am I to understand that you are adding primal defense powder right to your yogurt culture?? Hmmm


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Someone mentioned glutamine.

I cannot tolerate gluten, at all, in any form whatsoever. I tried a tincture a couple of months back and had a huge reaction (grain alcohol).

I have been on glutamine for a couple of days and no reaction at all (and they are always immediate).

No scientific evidence, just my bowels


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
Here it is. I am subscribed to it so I can find it easily under my User CP. However, before that, I could never find it either.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=353318

That thread is a doozy.







: Thanks for the link!
I think I'm going to stick with the ascerola for now. I don't react to it and have only heard positive things about it.


----------



## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Dr. Jay Gordon's site...

*The Color of the Day: Solving Bowel Movement Mysteries*
http://www.drjaygordon.com/developme...ricks/poop.asp


i never knew about the green frothy stools meaning an oversupply. my ds had this. i never thought of oversupply being a real problem, but i think the stuff i did is similar to the suggestions to correct this. he only nursed on one boob at each feeding, and when he nursed i just let the other side 'flow' and soaked it up with a blanket. though it did take months before i could nurse him with out leaking on the other side.


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vaquitita*
i never knew about the green frothy stools meaning an oversupply. my ds had this. i never thought of oversupply being a real problem, but i think the stuff i did is similar to the suggestions to correct this.

I wrote this for the Elimination Communication yahoogroup:

Quote:

As I prepare for welcoming a new baby into the family, I've been doing a lot
of thinking about breastmilk oversupply and how it affected ds, including in
the area of EC.

While many mothers worry about not having enough breastmilk, some mothers
struggle with the opposite problem - too much milk. This can lead to a lot
of problems in the mother and in the baby. Babies act extremely fussy, cry a
lot, are gassy and have a lot reflux and hiccoughing. This is because they
are getting proportionately much more foremilk (low-fat milk that comes out
first) than hindmilk (fat-rich milk that comes out afterwards). Mothers'
breasts are uncomfortably full and they are at risk for plugged ducts and
mastitis. Here are some good general articles on the topic:
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/fa...own.html#links

Especially relevant to EC are the consequences of breastmilk oversupply on
the baby's bowels:
"[...] breastmilk oversupply [...] can sometimes cause bowel problems and
occasionally even bloody stools [...]. Babies of mothers with oversupply
frequently have bowel problems because the over production of milk causes
the baby to get more foremilk [...] than hind milk. [...] Because the fat in
the milk helps to slow digestion, a baby who receives more foremilk than
hind milk may experience very rapid digestion. This would allow some of the
lactose, a milk sugar, into the bowel undigested. Once in the bowel, lactose
creates irritation that often leads to gassiness and explosive, sometimes
green bowel movements. Irritation also further inhibits the bowel's ability
to manage the lactose, creating a situation that often gets progressively
worse. This bowel irritation sometimes becomes so severe it can cause bloody
stools." - Kathy Kuhn, RN
http://parenting.ivillage.com/newbor...,,70jn,00.html

As you can imagine, dealing with poops of this sort makes ECing more
challenging - the poops are very frequent, messy, often seem to surprise the
baby and are not necessarily accompanied by the signals that we expect from
most ECed babies. Pooping while asleep is probably more common as well.

Babies' pee patterns are also affected by breastmilk oversupply. Because
foremilk is less filling than hindmilk and because babies must nurse more
frequently to get enough fat, babies consume a much larger volume of milk
than typical. Not surprisingly, babies pee a lot more frequently and overall
greater volumes. My baby also didn't signal for pees at all - though his pee
signals may have been masked by general fussiness in the early months.

Babies whose guts have been damaged by too much foremilk may be very late to
start solids.

Does any of this sound familiar? Many mothers of this list have discovered
that their babies have food sensitivities (often via breastmilk) through
practicing EC and noticing EC-related symptoms
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elimin...message/66748). With
all the symptoms that my ds had, I sometimes wondered if ds also had food
sensitivities as well, but I was sceptical because we don't have a family
history of food sensitivities, nor did I notice that ds reacted to specific
foods when starting solids. I now believe that the breastmilk oversupply
issues caused a lot of our ECing challenges. Indeed, a baby's problems with
oversupply are actually a very specific form of food sensitivity -
sensitivity to lactose overload from breastmilk. The picture gets more
complicated because some mothers suspect that oversupply symptoms can mask
the symptoms of other food sensitivities (either via solids or via
breastmilk) and other mothers suspect that oversupply problems can put
babies at higher risk for food sensitivities (due to gut damage).

Anyway, I share these thoughts in the hope that it may help some mothers do
their detective work when it comes to understanding their babies and working
out ECing challenges.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Just wanted to bring up a point made on an SCD list I'm on, that people who have a low adrenal function need some form of carbs. See: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...els_on_scd.htm


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
*The Color of the Day: Solving Bowel Movement Mysteries*
http://www.drjaygordon.com/developme...ricks/poop.asp

My LC strongly disagrees with the range in frequency/colour/consistency that Dr. Gordon says is OK in that link. Most of the people on the Elimination Communication yahoogroup also disagree that pooping once a week is OK as he says. That's why I was looking for more info...


----------



## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Quote:

One sign that your kid is "on Atkins" is dark urine.
Is this true? My carbs are lower than usual due to my avoiding most grains (though I have lots of fruit). I've noticed my urine getting darker lately and I was wondering if it was dehydration or something else. Also, my LC says that red urine after eating beets means not enough HCl in the stomach - true??


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Re: green, frothy stools
There are other reasons besides overactive letdown. My dd suffered from this and we finally linked it to her wheat/gluten allergy.
Just a FYI


----------



## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

my kids were ebf forever...

even when i was avoiding all allegens with dd, and trying to find all the allergens with ds, only in the first week or two of life did their yellow breastmilk poop have the little curds in it.

i heard something about this...that they were lacking something maybe?? Why would my babies have profuse normal looking yellow breastmilk poop with no curds?


----------



## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia*
some mothers struggle with the opposite problem - too much milk. This can lead to a lot of problems in the mother and in the baby. Babies act extremely fussy, cry a lot, are gassy and have a lot reflux and hiccoughing. This is because they are getting proportionately much more foremilk (low-fat milk that comes out first) than hindmilk (fat-rich milk that comes out afterwards). Mothers' breasts are uncomfortably full and they are at risk for plugged ducts and mastitis. Here are some good general articles on the topic: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/fa...own.html#links

yeah, that sounds like me and ds. he was gassy, though it usually didn't bother him, had hiccups alot, luckily i never had plugged ducts or mastitis, i definitely have a forceful let down too. some of these things i thought was related to a milk allergy (my husband has one) and did seem to get better when i quit eating milk and cheese, but this was right around 3 mo when my milk supply also settled down.

one of the articles on too much milk on kellymom mentions nipples being white at the end of the feeding. what exactly causes this? i still get this sometimes.


----------



## BoogieMama (Aug 8, 2006)

Thanks for the pointers on the supplements & the diet. That Seacure looks like a pretty good deal! I'm not really a veg for moral reasons-- but meat, even bone broth, makes me pretty sick. I do eat as much safe fish as I can find and afford (maybe 1X/ week).

I'm not convinced that I do have candida...Any kind of questionnaire I have found does not show that I show symptoms for that. I'm pretty healthy, although I was very stressed during pregnancy & did have to rely on supplements throughout or I would start losing weight.

After seeing my pediatrician this morning, I guess the question I still have is... if ds has these food intolerances, and my diet is working for him, am I fooling myself into thinking that just keeping the allergens down will work for us, or do we both probably have systemic problems that need to be corrected by rigid adherence to a cleansing diet before I wean him? Do I have to name it and systematically correct it, or can we just feel our way out of this?

I really appreciate all the input, and also just meeting you all & learning all the different stories you have.


----------



## BoogieMama (Aug 8, 2006)

Ds has terrible reactions to even a teaspoon of dairy. And I have reactions even to broth, although I can have a little fish. I will check out the native traditions book, I'm getting quite a little library request list going.

Your smoothie sounds super delicious! I'm going to go have it with my falafel! I have all those ingredients in my cupboard now! Mmmmmm.

Thanks so much!!


----------



## BoogieMama (Aug 8, 2006)

Fats do help, and I think I will try to find some coconut oil. Maybe the bone broth, too. I know I can get free bones from the local carniceria (I usually go in for pesach).

Thanks so much!


----------



## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bamamom*
my kids were ebf forever...

even when i was avoiding all allegens with dd, and trying to find all the allergens with ds, only in the first week or two of life did their yellow breastmilk poop have the little curds in it.

i heard something about this...that they were lacking something maybe?? Why would my babies have profuse normal looking yellow breastmilk poop with no curds?

I was just about to post the same question. My first daughter had the curds the whole time she was ebf. My newby had them about a week (after the tarpoop went away) and then they were gone. I've been wondering if that's linked to when our issues with food intolerances started.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Interesting note about the adrenal fatigue. I have finally figured out that *I* have adrenal fatigue and have been doing some reading on it. So what are carbs on SCD? Fruits & veggies & honey? Just not meat and dairy?

From what I've been reading, those w/adrenal fatigue do much better on a high protein, low carb diet, which is interesting b/c my symptoms have improved since SCD.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I bought MegaFlora today and am wondering what would happen if I cultured yogurt with it. Anyone know?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Patty, From what I'm seeing on the probiotics thread, it looks like you could use that as starter.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Came here to post about enzymes.

I think my tolerance for enzymes has increased so much that they're no longer working.







Does this happen?

Should I increase or get a different type?

I've been using Zyme Prime w/meals (sometimes Peptizyde w/meals) and Peptizyde btw. meals (well, usually just late at night.)


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Would you like to add a pig's duodenum to your diet?








Look what I just found: (Look under "New Treatments - Secretin-Crohn" at the bottom of the page. ) I read one mom on another list raving about this product.
http://www.newtreatments.org/crohn.php
It's interesting really.

Here's info. about secretin.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
A really interesting article, from an alternative site I like a lot:

http://www.alternativementalhealth.c...es/enzymes.htm

Very interesting! Nice to see how, how are you and your little?









*EBG,*

This mentions thyroid glandular, maybe that is something you can look into?
http://www.drrons.com/organic-organs-glands.htm
have you ever tracked your AM temps?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Jane, am I to understand that you are adding primal defense powder right to your yogurt culture?? Hmmm

No, L. Reuteri to yogurt culture.

Primal Defense dirt to whatever I can hide it in.









Haven't started back up on it yet though, having a tough time reintroducing enzymes.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia*
Well, non-committed types won't necessarily read until the end but obviously it's up to you.
















I added to end of first post, how's that?


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
No, L. Reuteri to yogurt culture.

Primal Defense dirt to whatever I can hide it in.









Haven't started back up on it yet though, having a tough time reintroducing enzymes.









It is very dirt like, isn't it.









I just started reading the POP thread (again) and from what I understood, I could use PD w/my starter, no? And I am definately going to pick up some Reuteri when I can afford it







How are DS's poops doing since the reuteri? Anything new?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Hey, speaking of the Reuteri . . .
CAn I use Stonyfield to culture my yogurt? Would that give enough reuteri or do I need to buy a supp too?







<------------------I've been using this smilie an awful lot lately.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Thank you to whomever posted that link to enzymes and mental health. I'll be passing that onto my step brother who is finally starting to listen to me







: All his psychotropic meds are killing him and he is trying to get off, but needs help doing so. That link is perfect









I've also just bumped up a thread in questions and suggestions about getting a subforum, if anyone wants to join me








:


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Jane- I would like to hear your opinion on why BTVC says no bifidus.

I'm just not sure about it... especially with respect to our kids. Because I seem to remember reading that the bifidus dominent EBF babe gradually gets colonized with more lactobacillus as solids are started. This was actually confirmed today when I started reading Erica's great suggestion: _Optimal Digestive Health_. http://www.gutdoc.org/

It claimed that a child's flora switched to being like an adult in "mid childhood" whatever that means. I wonder if they are supposed to have more bifidus for some reason, for their immune systems to be buffered somewhat for a while?? Is this what "growing out of allergies" or "gut maturation" means?

I don't know. This is all seems to be just guesswork and it *drives me nuts*!

Elaine said bifidus has a tendancy to overgrow:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...kb/bifidus.htm

The other issue is that I cannot find a dairy free acidophilus starter for DS's yogurt... so is the fact that he's only been getting L. casei make a difference?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie*
DD has had blood streaked poop twice. Both times were with diarrhea and they were the last *squirts*, if you will.







The first time was at 10.5 months, and the second time was a couple months after that. No diarrhea since. Is this a cause for concern?

I wouldn't worry personally. Sounds like it was more b/c the D. caused the skin of the anus to be irritated? I wouldn't call that "fairly often".


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia*
My LC strongly disagrees with the range in frequency/colour/consistency that Dr. Gordon says is OK in that link. Most of the people on the Elimination Communication yahoogroup also disagree that pooping once a week is OK as he says. That's why I was looking for more info...

I would too but that's all I know of... meaning green is not normal either too right.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
It is very dirt like, isn't it.









I just started reading the POP thread (again) and from what I understood, I could use PD w/my starter, no? And I am definately going to pick up some Reuteri when I can afford it







How are DS's poops doing since the reuteri? Anything new?

I don't know re: PD as starter, b/c those are not dairy probiotics. Experiment with a small amount and see how it goes.

As an aside: Do Not Get www.cheesemaking.com Kefir Powder!

Doesn't work! I have full half gallon of sour raw goat's milk that I don't know what I'm going to do with. Back to expensive BED kefir powder.

DS's poops horrendous right now due to stool testing and being off enzymes etc. They were great before though due to L. Reuteri as that was the only thing I had added for a month.


----------



## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

as i heat my raw milk, can i use an instant read meat thermometer to get the temp of the water? i bought a small one today hoping to use it. got my oven thermometer too, so now i need to see how well my oven light works. mason jars tomorrow..........this should be fun!

thanks!
megin

oh -- one more question: DS OD'd on eggs the past few days. He's mildly allergic but the symptoms definitely kicked in for the first time because of the eggs. His behavior today was crazy crazy crazy. I upped the Vitamin C a lot. He's of course off eggs for a bit, what else should I do to help "detox" him at this point?

Thanks again!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Hey, speaking of the Reuteri . . .
CAn I use Stonyfield to culture my yogurt? Would that give enough reuteri or do I need to buy a supp too?







<------------------I've been using this smilie an awful lot lately.

Maybe but it's got other things in there too.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bamamom*
my kids were ebf forever...

even when i was avoiding all allegens with dd, and trying to find all the allergens with ds, only in the first week or two of life did their yellow breastmilk poop have the little curds in it.

i heard something about this...that they were lacking something maybe?? Why would my babies have profuse normal looking yellow breastmilk poop with no curds?

I thought curds correlating with enough fats in BM?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
as i heat my raw milk, can i use an instant read meat thermometer to get the temp of the water? i bought a small one today hoping to use it. got my oven thermometer too, so now i need to see how well my oven light works. mason jars tomorrow..........this should be fun!

thanks!
megin

oh -- one more question: DS OD'd on eggs the past few days. He's mildly allergic but the symptoms definitely kicked in for the first time because of the eggs. His behavior today was crazy crazy crazy. I upped the Vitamin C a lot. He's of course off eggs for a bit, what else should I do to help "detox" him at this point?

Thanks again!

Yes re: thermometer

UGH re: eggs








This might be a sulfur processing issue. I don't understand it but you might want to look into it at some point. Does he have a similar reaction to broccoli?


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Hi All









I just wanted to say thanks for letting me vent. Im feeling quite better the last two days. For one, Ive started studying recipes, which has made me feel less caged, and I think the spoonfuls of coconut oil are catching up to my metabolism - that is, I dont feel starved anymore, so my brain is present and I can physically keep up (keep on top of) my kids. I actually feel energetic and relatively peaceful. We'll see how long this phase lasts









I stumbled on a recipe idea after reading about pureed cauliflower as mashed potatoes. Im soo sick of eggs for breakfast, so today I steamed several pounds of cauliflower, pureed a batch, and scooped some into a bowl with butter, coconut oil, cinnamon, stevia, and a touch of vanilla







Cauliflower oatmeal!







Then I served some caul. mash with parsely and cinn. and coconut oil with dinner and the fam gobbled it up. "I cant believe its cauliflower" - Dh. Im going to try cauliflower pancakes, and cauliflower muffins







I told Dh Im going to write The Caulifower Cookbook







I also had enough energy to go to the gym today which has not happened in weeks, and that was a huge relief. I need my exercise, and felt good to get that part of myself back.

Questions:
~What is the deal with enzymes? I mean, I know what they do, but why do you take them/are you so obsessed with them? B/c they help you digest so you dont have food rotting in your gut, contributing to yeast, constipation/diarhea, permeability, etc? I have always had very consistent, step 3 or 4 poops (see how good Im getting







) so am not sure I see the point. The only ones Im interested in are the nes that claim to digest yeast, and these Im not sure I believe (you?)

~Tomato paste; talk to me. Ive been using it as a ketchup sub, but its got 6 g carbs/3 g sugar per 2 tblsp, despite it being *just* pureed tomatoes. Is this *legal* on the anti-candida diet, anyone know?

~Vanillla extract - many are made with alcohol, and alcohol is a no-no. The one I have does not list ingredients, but I know its *real* vanilla. Should I just buy the bean (ugh)?

~Last but not least, TTC. Im trying to figure out how to work this in. Now that I feel my sanity returning, and can imagine how this life will work, and actually feel energized, Im starting to jones. I dont know if getting preg while detoxing candida is a good idea, yet I could be detoxing for the next year, right? What should my guidepost be? We would start next month if I had my way. How have those of you who ttc after finding this way of life (as it were) decided when?

Thanks again mamas!!


----------



## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Mamas, I need you guidance once again.

I've been on SCD for over a month now. I had a minor set-back a couple of weeks ago, since I wasn't paying as much attention to my flautlence/stools (still charted) because of a terrible back pain. That got resolved from playing a lot of soccer with my DD's 4-1/2 year old friend!

Since then, I've gone back to a very basic intro. type diet. my flatulence went away. Sadly, my lucky streak didn't continue for long, but I don't have exact dates and clue to causes since every time I feel really ill, I stop charting as reliably









My sleeplessness persists (where I feel I have to be at exhausion in order to sleep; my brain doesn't stop). My real concern however is from about a few days ago, I started getting these dull headaches. Today I have had one ALL DAY









It's terrible, and I'm losing heart. I want this all to work so badly, and I know when things start seeming worse, I get more stressed which in turn worsens things... Argh! I'm starting to really believe whatever it is that's wrong with me is much bigger than I thought. It just sounds so negative though, and I want to draw more positivity in to my life, but how the hell do I do that when my head hurts all the time?!

/rant


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

RE: Natural Calm

I bought some about a few weeks ago, and been taking it regularly. I don't think it's doing much for me (at least sleep-wise). The producers say to take the Cal/Mag instead in such a situation.

Well, I have this huge bottle of the Mag., so I'd rather just add Cal. to the drink when I take it. Does anyone know of a resonable way in which I can do this?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok, dd woke up from her nap with reddish, purple arround both eyes, and puffy. At that point she had eaten some sausage (sheltons breakfast sausages, we eat them fairly regularly), lots of cheese, carrots, a slice of the cashew bread w/ butter, one drop of goldenseal root tincture (it tastes aweful but she insisted she had to try it. ) and several drops of echenacea tincture. As well as her normal clo and enzymes. I don't think she had anything else. After we got up she had about 1/4 of a grapefruit, but I think the eyes were like that before the grapefruit. She was also really a mess after having a really good morning and took forever to really wake up from her nap and not be cranky and clingy.

Thoughts? This seems like an allergic reaction but to what?

Oh and I also rubbed Lapacho FG blend diluted with almond oil into her belly before nap. I did my own belly too and I think it cleared up my ears at least for a while.

I know those red eyes are classic for something but I'm drawing a blank on what.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

This is a really long thread and I'm too tired to read it all, but I still felt compelled to write something. I recently discovered my daughter's diaper rashes were caused because she is allergic to yogurt. Which is not at all what I would have thought because I know yogurt contains beneficial bacteria. She seems to not be the norm. I haven't found that she is allergic to any other foods.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok, dd woke up from her nap with reddish, purple arround both eyes, and puffy. At that point she had eaten some sausage (sheltons breakfast sausages, we eat them fairly regularly), lots of cheese, carrots, a slice of the cashew bread w/ butter, one drop of goldenseal root tincture (it tastes aweful but she insisted she had to try it. ) and several drops of echenacea tincture. As well as her normal clo and enzymes. I don't think she had anything else. After we got up she had about 1/4 of a grapefruit, but I think the eyes were like that before the grapefruit. She was also really a mess after having a really good morning and took forever to really wake up from her nap and not be cranky and clingy.


Has she had the 2 tinctures before? I react to most tinctures because they are in grain alcohol--gluten. Does she react to gluten?


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## CharlieBrown (Jan 20, 2004)

subbing


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I don't know re: PD as starter, b/c those are not dairy probiotics. Experiment with a small amount and see how it goes.

As an aside: Do Not Get www.cheesemaking.com Kefir Powder!

Doesn't work! I have full half gallon of sour raw goat's milk that I don't know what I'm going to do with. Back to expensive BED kefir powder.

Have you tried using traditional kefir *grains* - meaning the ones that are not powdered but are the actual knubby little things that create kefir?? You can get them for free if you know someone who has them (I do!) because they multiply like mogwais.


----------



## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

anyone done this? I want to make yogurt from raw goat milk and am hoping to use existing goat yogurt as a starter. Anyone done this? Should I just proceed as per the SCD recipe with one cup of yogurt for about a liter of goat milk?

Thanks!
megin

ps -- I know it will be a bit runny as all the goat yogurt I've ever found is a bit runny..........


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
anyone done this? I want to make yogurt from raw goat milk and am hoping to use existing goat yogurt as a starter. Anyone done this? Should I just proceed as per the SCD recipe with one cup of yogurt for about a liter of goat milk?

Thanks!
megin

ps -- I know it will be a bit runny as all the goat yogurt I've ever found is a bit runny..........

You are not _supposed_ to do this. From what I read, Elaine is concerned that the yogurt you are using as a starter, maybe it got too hot or not hot enough and there isn't enough probiotics, or that it got contaminated w/yucky bacteria.

That said, I've done it, BUT, I've also been on the diet 4 months. AND I think I have a blah batch of yogurt this time, so I'm not going to do it again. Not worth wasting all that milk







Although, I am now able to drain it and make some of that absolutely freakin' delicious cheesecake, so maybe I had ulterior motives


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Has she had the 2 tinctures before? I react to most tinctures because they are in grain alcohol--gluten. Does she react to gluten?

Yup. You got it. I think she and I have celiacs. Crap. More wasted money.







:


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Yup. You got it. I think she and I have celiacs. Crap. More wasted money.







:

I'm sorry.







I'm sure you can get some $ on the TP though, no?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Okay, thinking about probiotics here . . .
SCDers are not supposed to have bifidus right? Does the bifidus get killed in the process of making the 24 hour yogurt or is it that we don't get any bifidus because of the starters we use?

I am wondering out loud here if bifidus would be a good thing for my little dd.

Pretty convinced that I'm going to try reuteri for dd1. Now I just have to figure out what brand/kind to buy and HOW to use it.







: Thinking about getting capsules to break apart and sprinkling it in her already-made 24 hour yogurt. Does that sound reasonable?


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Why not culture the reuteri w/the other starter? That's what I'm thinking of doing. That way I'll have a very healthy colony of reuteri--and it will be more cost effective.

I was reading about bifidus and evidentally (and I might not be remembering correctly), but it has a tendency to overgrow & in a place you don't want it to grow. Its supposed to go in the large intestine or somewhere and overgrows before it gets there.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So anyone have a good gf playdoh recipe???


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
So anyone have a good gf playdoh recipe???

This is so funny 'cause dh & I were just talking about this the other night. O haven't searched yey but wlyk if I find one. I know I've seen them . . .(maybe on gf/cf kids?)


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Why not culture the reuteri w/the other starter? That's what I'm thinking of doing. That way I'll have a very healthy colony of reuteri--and it will be more cost effective.

I was reading about bifidus and evidentally (and I might not be remembering correctly), but it has a tendency to overgrow & in a place you don't want it to grow. Its supposed to go in the large intestine or somewhere and overgrows before it gets there.

I dunno, my intuition tells me that it'd be good for dd1 but not so sure about dd2 and they both drink the same batch.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Hi All









I just wanted to say thanks for letting me vent. Im feeling quite better the last two days. For one, Ive started studying recipes, which has made me feel less caged, and I think the spoonfuls of coconut oil are catching up to my metabolism - that is, I dont feel starved anymore, so my brain is present and I can physically keep up (keep on top of) my kids. I actually feel energetic and relatively peaceful. We'll see how long this phase lasts









I stumbled on a recipe idea after reading about pureed cauliflower as mashed potatoes. Im soo sick of eggs for breakfast, so today I steamed several pounds of cauliflower, pureed a batch, and scooped some into a bowl with butter, coconut oil, cinnamon, stevia, and a touch of vanilla







Cauliflower oatmeal!







Then I served some caul. mash with parsely and cinn. and coconut oil with dinner and the fam gobbled it up. "I cant believe its cauliflower" - Dh. Im going to try cauliflower pancakes, and cauliflower muffins







I told Dh Im going to write The Caulifower Cookbook







I also had enough energy to go to the gym today which has not happened in weeks, and that was a huge relief. I need my exercise, and felt good to get that part of myself back.

Questions:
~What is the deal with enzymes? I mean, I know what they do, but why do you take them/are you so obsessed with them? B/c they help you digest so you dont have food rotting in your gut, contributing to yeast, constipation/diarhea, permeability, etc? I have always had very consistent, step 3 or 4 poops (see how good Im getting







) so am not sure I see the point. The only ones Im interested in are the nes that claim to digest yeast, and these Im not sure I believe (you?)

~Tomato paste; talk to me. Ive been using it as a ketchup sub, but its got 6 g carbs/3 g sugar per 2 tblsp, despite it being *just* pureed tomatoes. Is this *legal* on the anti-candida diet, anyone know?

~Vanillla extract - many are made with alcohol, and alcohol is a no-no. The one I have does not list ingredients, but I know its *real* vanilla. Should I just buy the bean (ugh)?

~Last but not least, TTC. Im trying to figure out how to work this in. Now that I feel my sanity returning, and can imagine how this life will work, and actually feel energized, Im starting to jones. I dont know if getting preg while detoxing candida is a good idea, yet I could be detoxing for the next year, right? What should my guidepost be? We would start next month if I had my way. How have those of you who ttc after finding this way of life (as it were) decided when?

Thanks again mamas!!




Glad you're feeling better









Tomato paste--at least on my anti-candida diet tomato products are allowed. I think the paste just has a fair amount of carbs because it's sort of concentrated.

Vanilla--I personally wouldn't worry about the alcohol in it. It's such a tiny amount I don't think it's a big deal unless you're going through massive amounts of vanilla.

Yeast killing enzymes--I guess I would say I believe they can work because I know they have worked to kill yeast for other people. But I haven't tried them yet myself so I can't say from personal experience.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Just thought you'd all like to know...firefaery's back! (Saw a post from her today in the nutrition forum.)


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Very interesting! Nice to see how, how are you and your little?









*EBG,*

This mentions thyroid glandular, maybe that is something you can look into?
http://www.drrons.com/organic-organs-glands.htm
have you ever tracked your AM temps?

When I was ttc, and it was always around 97 ish. I know I have a low body temp, I'm alsoa lwys cold- cold hands and feet, has aways had it since I can remember, I thought it was genetic as my Mom has the same. But she also knows she has hypothyroidism. She thinks iopdized salt is the cure.
I was tested for thyroid a few years ago and everything was fine then.

But since then I've learned about candida and I suspect my thyroid issue, if I have it, is just caused by candida. BTW, I got my period, so that's good. I'm still losing a ton of hair. My eczema is calming down. I can see now that it was related to hormones - it got worse after ovulation and started calming down when AF came. So why does candida like progesterone?
I wonder if I'll ever be able to get rid of it. I mean the yeast. Oh it turns out, I also have tinea versicolor (another fungus - white spots on my arms that don't tan). One more fungus added to the pot.
I've been putting garlic juice, TTO and vinegar (as per candidasuport) on my skin but have not seen any change.








On another site I read that epsom salts encourage the growth of tinea fungi and I wonder if it's true, as I've been using ES baths lately and I do have this tinea guy. Any thoughts on this?
Anybody know about tinea versicolor and how to get rid of it?

Since I'm not bf-ing, and the candidasupport recommends it, I think I'll try OOO (orally and also topically)when I get hold of some $$. It's hard to come by these days...


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

from Microbiol Immunol. 1995;39(6):405-9.

Suppression of anti-Candida activity of murine neutrophils by progesterone in vitro: a possible mechanism in pregnant women's vulnerability to vaginal candidiasis.

Nohmi T, Abe S, Dobashi K, Tansho S, Yamaguchi H.

Sex steroid hormones were examined for their effect on mycelial growth of Candida albicans, and the inhibitory activity of casein-induced murine peritoneal neutrophils against mycelial growth of C. albicans was examined in vitro using a crystal violet staining method or a [3H]glucose incorporation method. Four steroid hormones, danazol, estradiol, estriol and testosterone had no effect on mycelial growth of C. albicans, but *progesterone appeared to convert the growth form of C. albicans from hyphal to yeast*. Danazol (10(-6) M) and progesterone (10(-5) M) suppressed anti-Candida activity of neutrophils of non-treated mice, while testosterone, estradiol, and estriol did not. The anti-Candida activity of neutrophils of estradiol-pretreated mice was clearly suppressed by progesterone even at 10(-6) M which corresponded to its plasma concentration in pregnant women in the third trimester. *The physiological significance of this suppressive effect of progesterone was discussed in relation to the vulnerability of pregnant women to vaginal candidiasis.*

unfortunately, i don't have access to the full article, so i can't tell you HOW they discussed it.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/2/651

Effects of Reproductive Hormones on Experimental Vaginal Candidiasis
Paul L. Fidel Jr.,* Jessica Cutright, and Chad Steele

Vulvovaginal candidiasis (VVC) is an opportunistic mucosal infection caused by Candida albicans that affects large numbers of otherwise healthy women of childbearing age. Acute episodes of VVC often occur during pregnancy and during the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle, when levels of progesterone and estrogen are elevated. Although estrogen-dependent experimental rodent models of C. albicans vaginal infection are used for many applications, the role of reproductive hormones and/or their limits in the acquisition of vaginal candidiasis remain unclear. This study examined the effects of estrogen and progesterone on several aspects of an experimental infection together with relative cell-mediated immune responses. Results showed that while decreasing estrogen concentrations eventually influenced infection-induced vaginal titers of C. albicans and rates of infection in inoculated animals, the experimental infection could not be achieved in mice treated with various concentrations of progesterone alone. Furthermore, progesterone had no effect on (i) the induction and persistence of the infection in the presence of estrogen, (ii) delayed-type hypersensitivity in primary-infected mice, or (iii) the partial protection from a secondary vaginal infection under pseudoestrus conditions. Other results with estrogen showed that a persistent infection could be established with a wide range of C. albicans inocula under supraphysiologic and near-physiologic (at estrus) concentrations of estrogen and that vaginal fungus titers or rates of infection were similar if pseudoestrus was initiated several days before or after inoculation. However, the pseudoestrus state had to be maintained for the infection to persist. Finally, estrogen was found to reduce the ability of vaginal epithelial cells to inhibit the growth of C. albicans. These results suggest that estrogen, but not progesterone, is an important factor in hormone-associated susceptibility to C. albicans vaginitis.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Thanks, Bluets.
So what can we do about it? If they (prog&est.)always convert / encourage candida then all of my efforts of reversing it during the non-elevated cycle is in vain. I'm working so hard at killing the yeast and then boom, the hormones mess it up. This is also a vicious cycle.







:
I don't see the light int eh tunnel yet...


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

gotta be quick as i have to pack up and leave to get ds from daycare...

EBG: if your cycles are regular and you are charting, i would just assume that you'll be stricken so prepare for it. could you not try reverting to anti-candida foods just before the onset of hormonal shifts? i'd try it and report back but i don't have cycles yet.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
Have you tried using traditional kefir *grains* - meaning the ones that are not powdered but are the actual knubby little things that create kefir?? You can get them for free if you know someone who has them (I do!) because they multiply like mogwais.









Yep, I have some sitting in back of my fridge now that are probably dead!









I'm doing water grains and kombucha too right now, I spend a lot of time babysitting "knubby things"









They just require so much work and plus have the "ick" factor sometimes. But thank you for offering.


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yep, I have some sitting in back of my fridge now that are probably dead!









I'm doing water grains and kombucha too right now, I spend a lot of time babysitting "knubby things"









They just require so much work and plus have the "ick" factor sometimes. But thank you for offering.









Cool. I was thinking of trying my hand at kombucha. How have you liked it so far?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Here's a recipe. I googled and found some that said gluten free but were made from white flour.









Apparently the Colorations brand is g/f. I did read many months ago that regular Playdoh was g/f but now I'm reading that it's not. Gotta be careful. If my dd ingested a tiny speck we'd have big time regression for weeks.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
anyone done this? I want to make yogurt from raw goat milk and am hoping to use existing goat yogurt as a starter. Anyone done this? Should I just proceed as per the SCD recipe with one cup of yogurt for about a liter of goat milk?

Thanks!
megin

ps -- I know it will be a bit runny as all the goat yogurt I've ever found is a bit runny..........

Let me know how your turns out. I am trying Goat milk with a sheep's yogurt starter (Whole foods was out of goats milk yogurt) plus a few capsules of this:http://www.naturesway.com/NaturesWay...roductid=15024

I finally read through the introduction to the candidasupport diet on the yahoo groups. I'm mulling her ideas around. My gut reaction (pun intended) is that I need to progress further along with SCD so that I can eat more variety of veggies. It could be an alternate route. For my height (66") she suggests between 169-237 g of fat per day







. Talk about wierd ideas.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Nolan had amazing sleep while we were at the IL's. Last 2 nights he slept from 7pm-5am, ate and then slept until 8:30. Growth spurt?? I almost feel human. They had black out shades (I am RUNNING to get some tomorrow) It certainly wasn't because I was an angel on my diet.


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## gelfnrach (Sep 13, 2005)

My son has Crohns--hes 20 mos old, just diagnosed 6 weeks ago after 6 mos of bloody stools. I was always dairy/soy free and we ruled that out so we did a colonoscopy in June. Hes now on Sulfasalzine (a sulfa antibiotic that is released in the colon combined with an asprin like anti inflammatory)twice a day and has shown major improvements (sedementation rate dropped from 25 to 8) over the last 6 weeks so I know its working. I am a Physician assistant and used to work for a Natural-type doc who always would use probiotics on patients on abx. I was only a medical assistant when I worked for him (10 yrs ago) so I never really "learned" the ins and outs medically of using them. Now I am in mainstream family practice and dont have many alternative medicine resources.. I would like to start giving him probiotics. Are there online resources anyone knows of to point me toward what I should be doing?
thanks!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

AmyD, (Or anyone w/BTVC!)

Will you pls. post or pm me the cheesecake recipe?

I lost my copy of BTVC weeks and weeks ago and STILL can't find it.


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gelfnrach*
My son has Crohns--hes 20 mos old, just diagnosed 6 weeks ago after 6 mos of bloody stools. I was always dairy/soy free and we ruled that out so we did a colonoscopy in June. Hes now on Sulfasalzine (a sulfa antibiotic that is released in the colon combined with an asprin like anti inflammatory)twice a day and has shown major improvements (sedementation rate dropped from 25 to 8) over the last 6 weeks so I know its working. I am a Physician assistant and used to work for a Natural-type doc who always would use probiotics on patients on abx. I was only a medical assistant when I worked for him (10 yrs ago) so I never really "learned" the ins and outs medically of using them. Now I am in mainstream family practice and dont have many alternative medicine resources.. I would like to start giving him probiotics. Are there online resources anyone knows of to point me toward what I should be doing?
thanks!

Wow...I have never heard of anyone that young being dx'd with Crohn's. Here is some information I'm copying from a gastroenterologist I've used in the past. I've put some of the more holistic information in bold.

Quote:

CROHN'S DISEASE

Crohn's is clearly associated with heredity as it can run in families; relatives with normal histology (no symptoms) may still have small patches of inflammation seen in a colonoscopy examination, and increased gut permeability. A major recessive gene with complete penetration for which 7% of patients are homozygous is found.

Intestinal ecology - bacterial overgrowth after antibiotic therapy or a change in intestinal perm that can occur after non-sterioidal can promote symptoms or inflammation.

Food allergies have been directly implemented: Food allergy and other auto- immune disorders have been linked, i.e. rheumatoid arthritis, eczema, asthma, and hives.

Element diets (synthetic diets, consisting entirely of powdered soy or rice based drinks with medium chain trigycerides and micronutrients) is often as effective in Crohn's as steroids and can put the patient in remission.

Viruses, yersinia, bacterial overgrowth, can deconjugate bile acids such as lithocholic acids.

SYMPTOMS

Intestinal scarring from chronic inflammation can causes stricturing and narrowing of the gut requiring surgery.
Diarrhea, abdominal pain, weight loss, rectal bleeding, and or bloody stools.
Dilated colon called megacolon.

Crohn's - same as above, but in addition:

Obstruction
Limited growth, weight loss or weight gain, fever of unknown origin
Typically beginning to manifest in young people - preteens and teens - and elders in 70s
Symptoms can occur throughout the entire GI system, such as fistulas, draining sores, perineum, rectal, bladder and vaginal tracts.

EXTRA INTESTINAL MANIFEST TIONS: MORE FREQUENT IN CROHN'S

Skin ulcerations and /or (erythema nodosum) red nodules.
Iritis (inflammation of the iris)
Mouth ulcers, (aphtous) in the interior of the mouth.
Poly-arthritis - aching and swell of the joints.

ULCERATIVE COLITIS

Inheritance is not as clear as in Crohn's although some genetic factors have been discovered. A major dominant gene has a role in UC. Genetic models of the inheritance patterns suggest that ulcerative colitis is probably caused by one major gene that has yet to be identified.

Colonic involvement only tends to cluster symptoms to that of diarrhea, abdominal pain and discomfort and bleeding. Weight loss and obstructive symptoms are rare.

However seasonal exacerbations appear to occur in the spring and fall. One explanation favored by the author is that the balance between repair factors and inflammation (diagram 1) is tipped because intestinal DNA replication is diminished in those seasons.

LAB TESTS

CONVENTIONAL TESTING

White cells in stools
Elevated sedimentation rate (which shows lots of antibodies present) and C-reactive protein
Both are diagnosed by direct examination: colonoscopy (of entire colon). Enteroscopy of the small bowel series (specialized x-ray of the small intestine - enterocylsis)
Blood testing - low copper, zinc, manganese
Contrast Barium enemas

FUNCTIONAL TESTING

*Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis - Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab
Lactulose mannitol urine test for intestinal permeability ; Absorptive studies - very important in Crohn's', also possible in UC: Cytokines up regulate and open the tight junction*

STANDARD CONVENTION TREATMENT

Prednisone (steroids) or in combination 5-ASA (mesalamine, sulfasalazine) are used as anti-inflammatories. More recent drugs include Chloroquine anti-malarial including Plaquenil and immuno-suppressants - Azathioprine, or 6-MP (Immuran), or the antibiotic ciprofloxin, which apparently has an immuno-modulating (tones down the immune system).

Ulcerative colitis may become so severe that a removal of the colon may be necessary or a section of the small intestine. However, we try to minimize this removal. Often removal doesn't cure the disease (Crohn's).

In some individuals, removing the colon turns off the T cell response, in others it just attacks other parts of the body. This autoimmune response could be delayed and symptoms may reoccur months or years later.

Crohn's: Some people respond to anti-TB therapy (atypical tuberculosis as an etiology.)

Aphthous ulcer, a herpes simplex like ulceration, possibly caused by a virus can occur in Crohn's.

There is a possibility that what we call Crohn's could be a variety of conditions that look alike, that have similar immunological profile with abnormal T cell response which causes tissue damage.

T cell apharesis reduce the load of T Cell through a process like dialysis, which can help in severe conditions, performed at medical centers such as Baptist Memorial in Memphis, Tenn.
Patients who had AIDS or bone marrow transplants have had a remission of colitis or Crohn's because it decreases the number of T cells in the body. This tragic correlation points to the relationship between these severe intestinal inflammations and immune system activity.

On the horizon

Interleukin 10 and 11, Antisense therapy, TNF-Alpha (Infliximab - recently approved, which turns off tumor necrosis antibodies for Crohn's fistulas, but has already shown progression to non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, because it suppresses the immune system's ability to fight cancer.)

Newer 5-ASA such as basalazide, which is probably better absorbed, squelch free radicals and up-regulate manganese superoxide dismutase.

Enteral and parental nutrition for Crohn's for weight loss and chronic diarrhea and intestinal obstruction.

SURGICAL THERAPY

Resection of the entire colon in ulcerative colitis is supposed to be a cure for life.

This conventional wisdom isn't always true for all patients, as the author has seen a number of patients who continued to have extra intestinal manifestations.

Resection of only the scarred bowel in Crohn's which hasn't responded to medical therapy and has either led to obstruction or to recurrent bleeding.

DIETARY THERAPY - These nutrients are helpful in many cases, ranging from mild to even severe. In severe cases, the use of nutrients supplements drug therapy.

*Using glutamine can decrease gut permeability.
FOS (fructo-oligosaccharide) with rice powder, micronutrients and friendly flora.
Inulin, active constituent of Jerusalem artichoke.
Chemically derived bio-active peptides (Sea Cure)*

HERBS

A useful herbal formula for mild to moderate conditions according to many naturopaths is Robert's Formula - herbal formula (Bastyr)
Aloe vera
Slippery elm

MINERALS

These patients are often depleted in manganese, copper, zinc, magnesium and many antioxidant vitamins such as A, C, and E. Manganese supplementation makes Mesalamine drugs work better

In Europe, copper superoxide dismutase made from recombinant DNA, has been used with success experimentally.

*Probiotic therapy, Lactobacillus and bifidobacteria
Mutaflora (Germany - form of beneficial E coli)
Sachromycoses boulardeai especially during and after anti-biotic therapy.
HSO ( homeostatic soil organisms )*

DIET

SPECIAL nutrients
*Anecdotal success - remove amylopectin found in (starches) as discovered by Elaine Gottschall Ph.D. In "Breaking the Viscous Cycle"
Food elimination diets
IgG tests for delayed food allergy: Many people with these conditions have problems with wheat, milk, or citrus as a general observation.
Experimental - Leo Galland M.D.

Reforestation - Wipes out all flora with antibiotics, then adds immunoflora, diplobacteria, lactobacillus and non toxigenic E Coli such as Muta Flor*

COMPLEMENTARY

Acupuncture
EPD Allergy treatment
NAET therapy - Debi Nambudripad, "The NAET Guidebook" applied kineseology for use in allergy elimination. This is a specialized approach most often used by acupuncturist, which involves using acupuncture and acupressure.
Gentle Exercise and Subtle Energy Therapy


----------



## gelfnrach (Sep 13, 2005)

*Ericaz* yes, hes very young. Thats why it took so long. The pediatric GI said that shes only seen a few under 2 in her career and shes out of Mt Sainai in NYC (at the crohns/colitis center).
Thanks sooo much for the info, I really appreciate it!


----------



## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Let me know how your turns out. I am trying Goat milk with a sheep's yogurt starter (Whole foods was out of goats milk yogurt) plus a few capsules of this:http://www.naturesway.com/NaturesWay...roductid=15024

I finally read through the introduction to the candidasupport diet on the yahoo groups. I'm mulling her ideas around. My gut reaction (pun intended) is that I need to progress further along with SCD so that I can eat more variety of veggies. It could be an alternate route. For my height (66") she suggests between 169-237 g of fat per day







. Talk about wierd ideas.


I'll definitely let you know how mine turns out, but it will be a while, as I can't get my milk until Aug. 20. Please let me know how YOURS turns out. Also, how are you using those capsules? Where in the process do you use them? What do you do with the granules, etc?

Thanks! This yogurt stuff is quite an adventure. I'm trying to figure out how to make mine as beneficial and healing for DS as possible, as it's one of the few foods he eats that are truly healing for him.

Thanks!
megin


----------



## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

I have a quick question - in my efforts to make water kefir for DS, I have paused to wonder if all of the organisms in water kefir are necessarily probiotic (good for you), or is it possible that water kefir could contain yeasts that would make his problems worse ? Is water kefir necessarily a good thing to give to someone who has yeast overgrowth problems ?

TIA,

Linda B.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
AmyD, (Or anyone w/BTVC!)

Will you pls. post or pm me the cheesecake recipe?

I lost my copy of BTVC weeks and weeks ago and STILL can't find it.

I would love to post it. Everyone must try this, omg, it is so yummy.
*************************************************
Cheese Cake

3 eggs
1/3c honey
1/2c dripped yogurt
2c DCCC
2t vanilla
1-2t lemon zest

Place in blender or food processor, putting eggs in first so blades will turn freely. Blend into smooth, pushing ingredients down if necessary.

Bake at 350 for about 30m or until edges are brown.

Cool and refridgerate.

************************************************

I used 2 1/2c of drained yogurt--came out fantastic. A whole lemon for the zest, could have used a lil' more. I cooked it in a pie plate putting Jane's cashew butter down first as a crust. (Soaked and dehydrated cashews, made into nut butter w/some coconut oil). The crust was so freakin' good. If making from scratch (I had some hanging in the fridge), I might add a lil' honey too.

Tell me how you like it. I would zap some strawberries and put them and their juice on the cheesecake. It was gone in 2 days







And the 4 yr old even tried some (he hates 'cheese'). I explained to him that it was only yogurt drained so he tried it, and loved it.


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
I have a quick question - in my efforts to make water kefir for DS, I have paused to wonder if all of the organisms in water kefir are necessarily probiotic (good for you), or is it possible that water kefir could contain yeasts that would make his problems worse ? Is water kefir necessarily a good thing to give to someone who has yeast overgrowth problems ?

TIA,

Linda B.

Yes...
From all of the research/anecdotal evidence I have come across kefir is beneficial for those with a yeast overgrowth. Here's a list of the beneficial microorganisms found in water kefir:

Typical microorganisms isolated from various water-kefir grains and water-kefir beverage

Lactobacilli
Lb. alactosus
Lb. brevis
Lb. casei subsp. casei
Lb. casei subsp. pseudoplantarum
Lb. casei subsp. rhamnosus
Lb. casei subsp. tolerans
Lb. coryneformis subsp. torquens
Lb. fructosus
Lb. hilgardii
Lb. homohiochi
Lb. plantarum
Lb. pseudoplantarum
Lb. yamanashiensis Streptococci/lactococci

Streptococcus cremeris
Str. faecalis
Str. lactis
Leuconostoc mesenteroides
Pediococcus damnosus Yeasts

Saccharomyces cerevisiae
S. florentinus
S. pretoriensis
Candida valida
C. lambica
Kloeckera apiculata
Hansenula yalbensis


----------



## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Thanks ericaz, what a great list ! Although I find it humorous that something called "damnosus" is good for you !


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

That is so interesting ericaz! Makes me want to make some. Has anyone ever heard of goat's milk kefir grains? I'd make some that way (afraid of me and DS1's cow milk reactions).

About kombucha, is there a limit of how much I should be drinking? I could drink this to the exclusion of all other liquids







:







, but I limit myself to one glass a day


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Thanks Amy! I started to try to make the c'cake recipe from Grain Free Gourmet & *cooked* my 1/2 & 1/2 (store bought) but then realized that I need a springform pan.

I think I'll try rhis recipe w/my 1/2 & 1/2 dripped cheese. What do you think?


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Thanks Amy! I started to try to make the c'cake recipe from Grain Free Gourmet & *cooked* my 1/2 & 1/2 (store bought) but then realized that I need a springform pan.

I think I'll try rhis recipe w/my 1/2 & 1/2 dripped cheese. What do you think?

I think it will be heavenly.


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
That is so interesting ericaz! Makes me want to make some. Has anyone ever heard of goat's milk kefir grains? I'd make some that way (afraid of me and DS1's cow milk reactions).

Try and connect with someone on the Kefir Trading Post. I know a few people have goat's milk grains to share...

And here's a chart listing the nutrition profiles of different kinds of kefir:
NUTRITIONAL VALUES OF DIFFERENT FRESH MILK TYPES


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Another OT post:
I did a long overdue cleaning of cupboards today and found some pecan meal I ordered from Digestive WEllness probably 2 months ago. JUST now noticed it says "keep refrigerated" - - it smells okay. Will it go rancid? Would I be able to tell by smell?


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

If red urine after eating beets = low stomach acid, then ds and I both have it! Yikes!


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

*Probiotic Recommendation:*

Spent $$$ last week on probiotics (multiflora...I think) only to read the label carefully yesterday (i.e. beyond the bacteria in it - duh) and see that ir contains rice starch. I think I need just a good balanced one without any yeast wheat soy, rice, whatever (nothing candida friendly). Do I need one that has many strains, or is one or two strains more important - I know I could read the probiotic thread you've all been talking about, but that would atke so much time, and you are already doing it


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
AmyD, (Or anyone w/BTVC!)

Will you pls. post or pm me the cheesecake recipe?

I lost my copy of BTVC weeks and weeks ago and STILL can't find it.











*Cheesecake*
3 Eggs
1/3 cup honey
1/2 cup yogurt or cream cheese made from yogurt
2 cups DCCC
2 teaspoons vanilla
1-2 teaspoons grated lemon rind

Place all ingredients in blender or food processor, blend until smooth.
Pour into loaf pan with or without crust.
Bake in oven at 350 F for about 30 minutes until edges are brown.

*Almond-Honey Crust*
1 cup whole almonds
1/4 cup butter
1/3-1/2 cup honey
2 teaspoons vanilla

Process nuts in a blender for a few seconds until nuts are coarsely chopped. Place almonds in a bowl and set aside. Put rest of ingredients in blender and process until ingredients are whipped. Blend both together with spatula. Spread in a shallow baking pan and bake at 375 F until golden brown.

*mmm*


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Ha! We posted at thesame time


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Whew... all's I'm gonna say is: _*Wow, Rescue Remedy really does work!*_


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
That is so interesting ericaz! Makes me want to make some. Has anyone ever heard of goat's milk kefir grains? I'd make some that way (afraid of me and DS1's cow milk reactions).

About kombucha, is there a limit of how much I should be drinking? I could drink this to the exclusion of all other liquids







:







, but I limit myself to one glass a day









I got mine originally from Betty Longman who cultures in goat's milk. They were excellent if a bit expensive. She posts on kefir Yahoo lists when she has some to sell. http://user.cavenet.com/longman/

Re: kombucha
I thought it should be limited but not sure of exact number of ounces.

Which btw I finally did find that reference in NT to cancer patients and gut flora you were talking about.







It's next to the beet kvass recipe.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
I have a quick question - in my efforts to make water kefir for DS, I have paused to wonder if all of the organisms in water kefir are necessarily probiotic (good for you), or is it possible that water kefir could contain yeasts that would make his problems worse ? Is water kefir necessarily a good thing to give to someone who has yeast overgrowth problems ?

TIA,

Linda B.

There have been people posting here at MDC that had reactions. Like anything else, YMMV.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Cradle cap question: DD has had cradle cap since about two weeks old. Her hair covers it up and I leave it alone. But...I'm tired of it and trying to scrub it all off (gentle of course). If I scrub all the cradle cap off and it doesn't return, would that be a sign of gut healing, or does cradle cap tend to stay away once it is scrubbed off?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
Cool. I was thinking of trying my hand at kombucha. How have you liked it so far?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Cradle cap question: DD has had cradle cap since about two weeks old. Her hair covers it up and I leave it alone. But...I'm tired of it and trying to scrub it all off (gentle of course). If I scrub all the cradle cap off and it doesn't return, would that be a sign of gut healing, or does cradle cap tend to stay away once it is scrubbed off?

DS had it really bad too. He kept getting it even though I scrubbed it off until one day it just went away... I don't remember when that was exactly though or if it correlated to other things. Lot of help I am!

He also used to drool excessively and interestingly enough that was one of the questions on the 10 page Allergy and Immune System questionnaire we are filling out for our new doc.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gelfnrach*
*Ericaz* yes, hes very young. Thats why it took so long. The pediatric GI said that shes only seen a few under 2 in her career and shes out of Mt Sainai in NYC (at the crohns/colitis center).
Thanks sooo much for the info, I really appreciate it!











See the Healing the Gut Tribe Cheat Sheet stickied at top of this forum.

The Specific Carbohydrate Diet is especially designed for Crohn's, read those links first.

Does he have any food allergies/sensitivities?

What is his medical/birth/food history like?

P.S. antibiotics kill probiotics, so they should be given 2 hrs more away from each other. Like if antibx are at 12pm and 4pm, probiotics should be at 2pm.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Abi's Mom*
This is a really long thread and I'm too tired to read it all, but I still felt compelled to write something. I recently discovered my daughter's diaper rashes were caused because she is allergic to yogurt. Which is not at all what I would have thought because I know yogurt contains beneficial bacteria. She seems to not be the norm. I haven't found that she is allergic to any other foods.

Is she sensitive to other forms of dairy?

This could also mean die off of yeast/bacteria.

What kind of yogurt are you giving her?

Has she had other digestive/stool issues?


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Well, my goat milk yogurt is really runny. Do you think the bacteria is active? The milk was only 1% and I used sheep's milk starter with 4 capsules of Primadophilus L Reuteri mixed into the starter.

I don't mind that it is runny this time but I would like to know how to improve its consistency.

Jane, what do you use to start your goat milk yogurt? (I think it was you that makes it?)

I made my first fermented veggies tonight, cannot wait to see how they turn out! I tried ginger carrots and asparagus.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Goat milk yogurt IS runny. There is no way to improve the consistency. Reminds me of coconut milk. Put it in the fridge for a couple of hrs (or overnight) and then taste it. My goat yogurt tastes absolutely revolting before I add honey and raspberries to it. That's how I know it is working


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
*Probiotic Recommendation:*

Spent $$$ last week on probiotics (multiflora...I think) only to read the label carefully yesterday (i.e. beyond the bacteria in it - duh) and see that ir contains rice starch. I think I need just a good balanced one without any yeast wheat soy, rice, whatever (nothing candida friendly). Do I need one that has many strains, or is one or two strains more important - I know I could read the probiotic thread you've all been talking about, but that would atke so much time, and you are already doing it









I have never had a problem with rice...in fact, it's one of the things that I can eat and suffer no consquences (knock on wood, lol!).
Personally, I have found the soil-based organisms containing more strains has helped me more than probiotics that contain two.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Goat milk yogurt IS runny. There is no way to improve the consistency. Reminds me of coconut milk. Put it in the fridge for a couple of hrs (or overnight) and then taste it. My goat yogurt tastes absolutely revolting before I add honey and raspberries to it. That's how I know it is working









I guess it was a success then because it was very tart. I hope I get used to the taste because I cannot have any fruit and I try to stay away from honey. I also bought some goat milk cheddar cheese and it doesn't taste spectacular either. What gives, I LOVE the spreadable chevre!

We'll see if Nolan's eczema changes with the switch to goat milk. I would like to try raw cow milk but it is no way to try it without first buying a cowshare ($$$)


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Hey everyone! Just checking back in. I just got the internet back a day or two ago. I have alot to catch up on! Glad to see you all here.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Hey everyone! Just checking back in. I just got the internet back a day or two ago. I have alot to catch up on! Glad to see you all here.

Welcome! You've been missed. How's the babe, how was the birth and all that good stuff


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Anyone who is wondering, the price-pottenger raw liver coctail tastes like tomato juice. Nothing else. I'm on day two of drinking it trying to get some iron into me.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Extra super fantastic. Labor was really hard-he was acynclitic. I got super lucky and as we were talking about transport two chiropractos got called in and worked on me for six straight hours. He was born at home in the water and into my hands. It was wonderful (22 hour labor not withstanding!) I had four friends, three midwives and the two chiropractors there. It definitely began to feel like a community event! I healed easily and quickly and breastfeeding is going great!

I did do the cocktail at the end of pregnancy. It really wasn't too bad.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Yogurt mamas,
Has anyone tried to culture Culturelle l. GG with the yogurt cultures (Yogourmet). I'm interested in adding some strains, too. Will look into the primadophilus reuteri but I only have Culturelle on hand right now.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Yogurt mamas,
Has anyone tried to culture Culturelle l. GG with the yogurt cultures (Yogourmet). I'm interested in adding some strains, too. Will look into the primadophilus reuteri but I only have Culturelle on hand right now.

No but I'm sure you can as I've seen some studies that used milk cultured with it.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Extra super fantastic. Labor was really hard-he was acynclitic. I got super lucky and as we were talking about transport two chiropractos got called in and worked on me for six straight hours. He was born at home in the water and into my hands. It was wonderful (22 hour labor not withstanding!) I had four friends, three midwives and the two chiropractors there. It definitely began to feel like a community event! I healed easily and quickly and breastfeeding is going great!











Wow, you are one determined mama, congratulations!!!!

Welcome to the world little Elf!

I saw your post re: bf'ing and that is very, very interesting. I'm so happy you figured things out.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Anyone who is wondering, the price-pottenger raw liver coctail tastes like tomato juice. Nothing else. I'm on day two of drinking it trying to get some iron into me.

That's inspiring!

You are drinking a whole 1/4 lb. at a time?

Are you doing pastured eggs (yolks) too? That is supposed to be another sure fire source.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Jane, what do you use to start your goat milk yogurt? (I think it was you that makes it?)

Progurt dairy free yogurt starter from GIProHealth. It's L. casei instead of L. acidophilus. It's always runny here, esp. the raw milk stuff.

Ugh, hit button too soon again....

We just drink it most of the time.

For more firmness: drip it or add gelatin to make Panna Cotta. Drink whey too, or save for ferments, it contains a lot of probiotics. Hope your veggies turn out great!


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
That's inspiring!

You are drinking a whole 1/4 lb. at a time?

Are you doing pastured eggs (yolks) too? That is supposed to be another sure fire source.

Not 1/4 lb. Just a small piece. That is what my recipe said, 1-2 tbsp worth.

We do tons of eggs. Almost daily. Always pastured.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

JaneS:
Moving over a topic from another thread:
So what else would cause a baby to react to certain foods in breastmilk?

Another question for you:
On this anti-candida diet I'm doing, only very low carb veggies are allowed, which means carrots, squash, and peas are not allowed. I asked the "founder" of the diet why it mattered whether I eat 20 carbs of squash in a meal or 20 carbs of green beans, cucumber, and onion in a meal. Her basic response was:

Quote:

It's not about the total carb count; it's the kind of
carbs, some of which feed candida. In fact all carbs turn into sugar
in the body, but the ones that are okayed for candida are the lowest
in sugar and carb content. Candida sufferers cannot avoid eating all
carbs. The range of veggies allowed contain low carbs & sugars, so it is
not the total count of carbs that matters. If it didn't matter where
you got your carbs from you could eat fruits, sugar and have milk and
cheese. But that isn't how it works. The higher the carb & sugar
content in a particular food the more it will feed candida and the
sicker you will feel.
This does not make sense to me. I understand that there are different types of sugars, and sugars like those found in dairy, starches, fruits, and sugar/honey/etc can feed yeast. But unless there is something I don't know about the particular sugars in carrots, peas, and squash, I don't understand why I can't eat them as long as I keep my total carb count within the "recommended" range for this diet (so basically her advice is coming across a load of bull). Do you have any insight on this?


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Anyone who is wondering, the price-pottenger raw liver coctail tastes like tomato juice. Nothing else. I'm on day two of drinking it trying to get some iron into me.

What is the raw liver coctail? Is it in NT?


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Progurt dairy free yogurt starter from GIProHealth. It's L. casei instead of L. acidophilus. It's always runny here, esp. the raw milk stuff.

Ugh, hit button too soon again....

We just drink it most of the time.

For more firmness: drip it or add gelatin to make Panna Cotta. Drink whey too, or save for ferments, it contains a lot of probiotics. Hope your veggies turn out great!

Thanks! I will try both things to make it more palatable. Any suggestions for making it taste better? (Other than fruit or honey)


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Extra super fantastic. Labor was really hard-he was acynclitic. I got super lucky and as we were talking about transport two chiropractos got called in and worked on me for six straight hours. He was born at home in the water and into my hands. It was wonderful (22 hour labor not withstanding!) I had four friends, three midwives and the two chiropractors there. It definitely began to feel like a community event! I healed easily and quickly and breastfeeding is going great!

I did do the cocktail at the end of pregnancy. It really wasn't too bad.

Congrats, Sounds like an awsome birth! If you ever write out a long version I'd love to read it.

I also read your post about breastfeeding, you must feel great about finally figuring it out! I have a friend due any day, she had no milk come in with her first baby and I am going to see if I can do some research on the oxytocin and fill her in.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks, Jane. The interesting bit is that this time my milk did come in...just not anywhere near enough (so it almost doesn't count, but it was there!) so the gut healing thing did quite a bit as the last two times there was NOTHING. It's also pretty amazing that I got through labor as I did and that the afterpains were nothing and the bleeding was minimal and didn't last long at all. My body is in a much different place for sure-now to keep moving forward! I truly believe (as do my docs) that if my gut had been *fully* healed I wouldn't have needed the hormones. It's ALL related!


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Nolan'smum-feel free to pm me if you have questions for your friend. Unfortunately I am the queen of trouble-shooting in breastfeeding.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I am exhausted. Any chance that this is die off? I'm feeling like I felt when dd was about 12 months old and I was dx'ed hypothyroid. My dr checks it pretty regularly and it seems to be staying in the right range on my meds, but could it have changed suddenly? I'm not sure what else is going on but I'm a walking zombie (and no I'm not possibly pg). I guess it could also be my anemia but it has never bothered me before and I get more iron in my diet than ever before right now (although I've been a bit low on the red meat the past couple of weeks I guess).
Anyone have any good ideas on how to up my iron quickly that won't screw up my gut? I'm considering the shots if I can get my Dr to do them. I know they hurt but if they will help me feel better...


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Was someone taking Pharmax probiotics at some point?

http://www.rockwellnutrition.com/vie...ory.asp?cat=39


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Thanks, Jane. The interesting bit is that this time my milk did come in...just not anywhere near enough (so it almost doesn't count, but it was there!) so the gut healing thing did quite a bit as the last two times there was NOTHING. It's also pretty amazing that I got through labor as I did and that the afterpains were nothing and the bleeding was minimal and didn't last long at all. My body is in a much different place for sure-now to keep moving forward! I truly believe (as do my docs) that if my gut had been *fully* healed I wouldn't have needed the hormones. It's ALL related!

Well regardless, it sounds head and shoulders better than where you have been before.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Thanks! I will try both things to make it more palatable. Any suggestions for making it taste better? (Other than fruit or honey)

Dripping does make it taste less tart (but also a significant amt of probiotics are in the whey).

We use Frontier Alcohol free vanilla extract. It's with Glycerine, which tastes sweet. G. is technically a fat though, not a sugar and is SCD legal.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Caedmyn,

I'll be back to discuss, worn out right now (that should teach me!)


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Patty, what about B vits and zinc?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Patty, what about B vits and zinc?

I take 50-60 of zink daily and a stress b plus extra folic acid and b-6.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:

CLEVELAND, Ohio (AP) -- Eating just one meal high in saturated fat -- in this case, carrot cake and a milkshake -- can quickly prevent "good" cholesterol from protecting the body against clogged arteries, a small study shows.

The results of the research weren't a surprise to the experts, but they say the findings reaffirm something that more people need to understand:

"What we put into our mouth makes a big difference in terms of our health," said Dr. Charles McCauley, a cardiologist with Marshfield Clinic in Wisconsin, who reviewed the research but wasn't involved with the study. "We really have to be very careful as to how our food is processed and what kind of ingredients we use."

In the study, at The Heart Research Institute in Sydney, Australia, 14 people, ages 18-40, ate two meals of carrot cake and a milkshake one month apart. One meal was high in saturated fat -- using coconut oil -- and the other was high in polyunsaturated fat -- using safflower oil.

Saturated fat has long been linked to the buildup of plaque that can lead to heart attacks and strokes. HDL, the "good" cholesterol, protects arteries from the inflammation that leads to artery-clogging plaques. And plaque hurts the ability of arteries to expand to carry blood to tissues and organs.

The researchers, led by Dr. Stephen Nicholls, a cardiologist now at the Cleveland Clinic, found that three hours after eating the saturated-fat cake and shake, the lining of the arteries was hindered from expanding to increase blood flow. And after six hours, the anti-inflammatory qualities of the good cholesterol were reduced.

But the polyunsaturated meal seemed to improve those anti-inflammatory qualities. Also, fewer inflammatory agents were found in the arteries than before the meal.

"They're looking at things in terms of real live living," said McCauley. "Carrot cake. How more real does that get?"

The study appears in the Aug. 15 issue of the Journal of the American College of Cardiology.

"It's a simple study. Sometimes the best studies are those that are very straightforward," said Dr. Richard Milani, head of preventive cardiology at Ochsner Clinic Foundation in New Orleans, Louisiana.

He notes that the research isn't suggesting that people eat a steady diet of carrot cake and milkshakes.

However, he said, "given a choice between something with polyunsaturated fat and saturated fat, please avoid the saturated fat."

Nicholls said "the take-home, public-health message is this: It's further evidence to support the need to aggressively reduce the amount of saturated fat consumed in the diet."

Saturated fats are found mostly in food from animals, including beef, pork, lard, poultry fat, butter, milk and cheeses, and some plants, including coconut oil, palm oil and cocoa butter.

Polyunsaturated fats are found in oils from plants, including safflower, sesame and sunflower seeds, corn and soybeans, many nuts and seeds.

Dr. James O'Keefe, a cardiologist at the Mid America Heart Institute in Kansas City, Missouri, said Nicholls' study shows "a really important concept -- when you eat the wrong types of food, inflammation and damage to the vessels happens immediately afterward."

Too many people simply are eating the wrong kind of fats, O'Keefe said.

"Even one meal of a double cheeseburger with fries and a Coke will mess up your system, let alone a steady diet of it, which is recipe for disaster," O'Keefe said.

Copyright 2006 Reuters. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed
Found Here

Thoughts??? (other than on the ridiculously small sample size?)


----------



## member (Apr 15, 2002)

: I am pretty sure I belong here; you can see my self-pity post here.

*Patty*, my first thought is that the quality of saturated fats are not taken into account (factory farmed, grain-fed, versus pastured, organic or cold-pressed) and how exactly can they isolate saturated fats from the other foods being consumed, and the insulin connection from refined foods is well-documented with regards to affecting cholesterol.


----------



## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

I am working on fermented veggies to help Evan's gut. I fermented some carrot chunks with a little cabbage in the bottom. They taste good, but they make me burp. Does that mean there is anything wrong with them ? I'm afraid to let him try any until I find out if they are ok or not...

Thanks !

Linda B.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Selu*







: I am pretty sure I belong here; you can see my self-pity post here.









welcome!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Patty,

I'd love it if you'd post that in Traditional Foods forum and see what some of the very knowledgble mamas say.

As far as coconut oil as a saturated fats goes, I don't think native diets which contain half of their foods from coconut, with low heart disease, lie. There's gotta be something going on here that is more complex than a quick look after one meal is going to tell you.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Patty,

I'd love it if you'd post that in Traditional Foods forum and see what some of the very knowledgble mamas say.

As far as coconut oil as a saturated fats goes, I don't think native diets which contain half of their foods from coconut, with low heart disease, lie. There's gotta be something going on here that is more complex than a quick look after one meal is going to tell you.

There's a Traditional foods forum??? Cool!


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Patty, That article sounds suspicious. If they were truly testing the effects of unsaturated vs saturated fats why use foods with so much sugar and no nutrients?

How much calcium and magnesium is in a cup of properly made broth? I would like to not take a suppliment for these minerals, wondering how much I need each day.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Mamas,
Does anyone have the link to the study done re: processed foods and disease? The one that was *lost* by the FDA and then later *found*?

Do you know what I"m talking about? I read this months ago but did not save it.

Sorry I can't be more specific but I don't remember the details other than the study was done proving that processed (or genetically engineered) foods were harmful and that it was essentially covered up by the gov't.

I have company this weekend and would LOVE to find it and pass it along to them!


----------



## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Started enzymes yesterday. Couldn't sleep AT ALL last night. I was just wondering if this could be die-off already. How long does it usually last? And how long has it lasted in your children? I'm hoping to start DS on enzymes sometime soon and want to know how long to brace myself for the crazies..........







:

thanks!
megin


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Die off for me felt like the flu. General lethargy, even kind of achy and just overall yucky. Constipation too. Oh, and night sweats.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm dying to get my hands on Gerald Tannock's books.

He's a Kiwi, MT's gotta know him but I don't think I remember her mentioning him.

http://www.nutrigenomics.org.nz/index/page/128

It seems he is saying overgrowth of bifidobacteria is connected with colitis but I haven't checked this reference yet.

Quote:

Moran et al., 2006. Bifidobacterium animalis causes extensive duodenitis and mild colonic inflammation in
interleukin-10 knockout mice. Abstract submitted for presentation at Digestive Diseases Week meeting.
http://microbiology.otago.ac.nz/dept...ald/index.html

*Probiotics and Prebiotics: Scientific Aspects*
http://www.horizonpress.com/hsp/books/pro3.html
*
Probiotics and Prebiotics: Where are We Going?*
http://www.horizonpress.com/hsp/books/pro2.html

*Probiotics: A Critical Review*
http://www.horizonpress.com/hsp/books/pro.html

PubMed references for:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...22%5BAuthor%5D

I'm reading from one of his book excepts available on Google book search:

Quote:

Lactobacilli and bifidobacteria, much beloved by probiotics and prebiotics researchers, are not numerically important members of the gut microbiota of adult humans because they constitute, on average, less than 1% and 10% respectively, of the faecal (distal colon) community. There does not seem to be any consistent observations to suggest that the situation is different in the proximal colon...
It goes on to say that each gut colony is unique to the host with species evolving that gain hold in a highly competitive environment.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Bifidobacteria comprises 91% of microflora of BF infants and 75% of FF.
Harmsen et al, 2000

Probiotics influence Th1 vs. Th2 response
Isolauri et al 1993; Murosaki et al 1998; Isolauri et al 2000;

From Tannock's "Probiotics and Prebiotics: Where are we going?"

Quote:

Perhaps the immune system can be educated by manipulation of the gut microflora?

Quote:

Chapter 8
Gut Microflora and Atopic Disease
Clare S. Murray and Ashley Woodcock
Abstract
In recent years many countries have experienced a rise in allergic disease, which cannot be genetic in origin. Over the same period many aspects of modern life have changed and theories have been put forward to explain this trend. In 1989, Strachan introduced his "Hygiene Hypothesis", in which he proposed that allergic diseases could be prevented by infection in early childhood. However, despite numerous studies a specific "infective protective factor" has not been identified. Recently, attention has turned towards the intestinal microflora and the possibility that colonisation with specific microbes may be more important than sporadic infections. The immune system is Th-2 skewed in newborn babies, and the intestinal microflora may act as a counter-regulator, driving towards Th-1 differentiation. Colonisation with microbes begins immediately after birth and soon outnumber the human host cells. Thus, the microflora is the earliest and by far the largest stimulus to the immune system, and outweighs that of any occasional infection.

There is evidence suggestive of an association between intestinal microflora and allergic disease and also suggestive that probiotics may improve or even prevent disease. However, these studies are on small numbers of children and long-term follow up is awaited. Longitudinal studies are necessary to establish whether the intestinal microflora plays an active role in the aetiology of allergic disease and whether manipulation can lead to a decrease in prevalence.
http://www.horizonpress.com/hsp/abs/abspro2.html

Quote:

Chapter 10
Intestinal Microflora and Homeostasis of the Mucosal Immune Response: Implications for Probiotic Bacteria?
Stephanie Blum and Eduardo J. Schiffrin
Abstract
The intestinal microflora can be considered a post-natally acquired organ that is composed of a large diversity of bacteria that perform important functions for the host and can be modulated by environmental factors, such as nutrition. Specific components of the intestinal microflora, including lactobacilli and bifidobacteria, have been associated with beneficial effects on the host, such as promotion of gut maturation and integrity, antagonisms against pathogens and immune modulation. Beyond this, the microflora seems to play a significant role in the maintenance of intestinal immune homeostasis and prevention of inflammation. The contribution of the intestinal epithelial cell in the first line of defense against pathogenic bacteria and microbial antigens has been recognized. However, the interactions of intestinal epithelial cells with indigenous bacteria are less well understood. This chapter will summarize the increasing scientific attention to mechanisms of the innate immune response of the host towards different components of the microflora, and suggest a potential role for selected probiotic bacteria in the regulation of intestinal inflammation.

Quote:

Coupled with the recognized health and well-being associated with breast-fed infants, the predominance of the bifidobacterial group has fuelled much interest in dietary interventions (or formulae fortifications) to modulate the composition of formula-fed infants¹ faecal microbiota. The limited clinical data available to date are very promising, with clear evidence of the ability to use prebiotics in infant formulae to elicit a microbiota better resembling that seen in breast-fed infants. However, the long-term effects and health impact are yet to be elucidated.
http://www.horizonpress.com/hsp/abs/abspro3.html


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
Started enzymes yesterday. Couldn't sleep AT ALL last night. I was just wondering if this could be die-off already. How long does it usually last? And how long has it lasted in your children? I'm hoping to start DS on enzymes sometime soon and want to know how long to brace myself for the crazies..........







:

thanks!
megin

Depends on the person. I did this to myself ... you should stop for several days and then start again very slowly, like 1/4 capsule.

It's most likely the proteases causing this:
http://www.enzymestuff.com/serotonin.htm


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Wow Jane,
Interesting. I can think of a few other places where you ought to post that . . .

Been wanting to ask you too:

Will you pls. post a link or explain just *how* babe's gut flora gets established going through the birth canal?

I have friends here for a visit and I'm giving them a crash course in immunology and how it relates to gut health.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Mamas,
Does anyone have the link to the study done re: processed foods and disease? The one that was *lost* by the FDA and then later *found*?

Do you know what I"m talking about? I read this months ago but did not save it.

Sorry I can't be more specific but I don't remember the details other than the study was done proving that processed (or genetically engineered) foods were harmful and that it was essentially covered up by the gov't.

I have company this weekend and would LOVE to find it and pass it along to them!

I know I posted it somewhere, but where is the issue.

Gale Force does I think she was trying to get the whole thing ... PM her!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Clean out your pm box!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Wow Jane,
Interesting. I can think of a few other places where you ought to post that . . .

Been wanting to ask you too:

Will you pls. post a link or explain just *how* babe's gut flora gets established going through the birth canal?

I have friends here for a visit and I'm giving them a crash course in immunology and how it relates to gut health.









Yes, ahem ...









Did you see the 'Just One Bottle' link? It's in Cheat Sheet. The fetus is completely sterile until the vaginal flora is acquired. Or not in the case of c section babes. Then resident microbes from environment get a toe hold. And of course bacteria is transferred thru bf'ing.

So YI, BV and GBS infections that are so common during pg have a huge impact on your babe's flora at birth.

This is more user friendly if less references than Marsha Walker's article:

*The Case for the Virgin Gut*
http://breastfeed.com/resources/articles/virgingut.htm

Another link that just proves to me DS's "just 3 bottles" of formula at birth caused his dairy allergy: http://www.breastfeeding.org/bfacts/bottle.html


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Another one for you:

Developmental microbial ecology of the neonatal gastrointestinal tract
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/69/5/1035S

I lied, "just one bottle" is not in Cheat Sheet. Putting it in now.


----------



## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Patty, That article sounds suspicious. If they were truly testing the effects of unsaturated vs saturated fats why use foods with so much sugar and no nutrients?

How much calcium and magnesium is in a cup of properly made broth? I would like to not take a suppliment for these minerals, wondering how much I need each day.

Anyone? I was wondering about the calcium/magnesium thing, too.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Hilary Butler rant on kefir is fun reading.









http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/324/7350/1364


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou*
Anyone? I was wondering about the calcium/magnesium thing, too.

No one seems to know for sure. One cup equals one quart of milk is the folk wisdom floating around. There was a couple threads about this about a month ago in Trad. Foods forum.


----------



## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Hilary Butler rant on kefir is fun reading.









http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/324/7350/1364

That was wicked cool; thank you, *Jane!*

I really like her analogy about understanding the whole tree before putting individual leaves under the microscope.


----------



## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

originally posted by ericaz


> [/As far as I know there's no coorelation between l-glutamine and wheat and that it's recommended in most cases of leaky gut/dysbiosis/gut disease (including those caused by infections or immune-deficiency) as a tool to heal inflammation.
> I went ahead and bought the Seacure and l-glutamine yesterday...I'm feeling optimistic about pairing them along with lots of probiotics.QUOTE]
> 
> sorry about the bo-bo quoting...i am not that computer savvy and spent too much time trying to figure it all out instead of just posting. anyone, please feel free to point me in the right direction with how to properly quote.
> ...


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Oh man...I hate studies like the one posted by Pattyla. First off, look at the foods they used. A milkshake (undoubtedly using pasteurized or ultra pasteurized milk and/or powdered milk and loaded with sugar) and carrot cake (presumably using bleached white flour, bleached sugar and god knows what else). Classic case of researchers once again trying to demonize saturated fats by testing them using junk food. How is it that traditional cultures who eat diets extremely high in saturated fats (like indigenous tribes that eat animal blood, tropical oils and raw meat) live healthy lives devoid of all the degenerative diseases Americans are plagued with?? Uh, maybe it has something to do with the fact they aren't eating MILKSHAKES and CARROT CAKE.







:

So, my supplement regiment now is l-glutamine, Seacure, Chlorella and probiotics. I'm heading towards the end of my menstrual cycle (luteal phase) but so far I'm feeling tons better than I was. Woohoo!


----------



## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

not to interupt the flow...just looking for info

reposting this question...thinking it was lost in the vast sea of a previous post

please talk to me more about the 24 hour yogurt. or point me in the right direction. i have read BTVC, but it was on loan to me and i don't have it in my possession right now. my ds appears to have a dairy allergy/intolerance...is the 24h yogurt vital to his healing??? is a mix of probiotics, following the scd, making life style changes enough to faciltate healing?

thanks


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Extra super fantastic. Labor was really hard-he was acynclitic. I got super lucky and as we were talking about transport two chiropractos got called in and worked on me for six straight hours. He was born at home in the water and into my hands. It was wonderful (22 hour labor not withstanding!) I had four friends, three midwives and the two chiropractors there. It definitely began to feel like a community event! I healed easily and quickly and breastfeeding is going great!

Wow. How great to have such resources around you. Congratulations.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Clean out your pm box!

















:

Jane -- is that the study we had some sort of exchange about months ago? I must have it somewhere. I don't remember it being as big a deal as I thought it would be. I've had a hard drive crash since then, so we'll see what I've got.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Amanda,
I wish I could remember where I found it or even *one* other detail about it. Oh, now I wonder if someone on the NT thread linked to it.









THe big thing I remember about it was how it was essentially covered up by the FDA and speculated that if the word got out that big companies such as Kelloggs and others who produce crap would not be happy.

I know that probably doesn't help much does it.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
not to interupt the flow...just looking for info

reposting this question...thinking it was lost in the vast sea of a previous post

please talk to me more about the 24 hour yogurt. or point me in the right direction. i have read BTVC, but it was on loan to me and i don't have it in my possession right now. my ds appears to have a dairy allergy/intolerance...is the 24h yogurt vital to his healing??? is a mix of probiotics, following the scd, making life style changes enough to faciltate healing?

thanks

How about raw goat milk? And he might be okay w/raw cow yogurt, sometimes the pastuerization is what bothers people (not an "allergy", yk?).

But you can heal if you do the diet and probiotics. I just find the yogurt so damn yummy that it helps me love the diet as much as I do.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*







:

Jane -- is that the study we had some sort of exchange about months ago? I must have it somewhere. I don't remember it being as big a deal as I thought it would be. I've had a hard drive crash since then, so we'll see what I've got.

Yes, that is what I'm thinking too...

This? You sent me the PDF of this entire article I believe. Whoops nevermind, entire article is linked below...

*Origins and evolution of the Western diet: health implications for the
21st century*
Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 Feb;81(2):341-54.
Cordain L, Eaton SB, Sebastian A, Mann N, Lindeberg S, Watkins BA, O'Keefe JH, Brand-****** J.
Department of Health and Exercise Science, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523, USA.

There is growing awareness that the profound changes in the environment (eg, in diet and other lifestyle conditions) that began with the introduction of agriculture and animal husbandry approximately 10000 y ago occurred too recently on an evolutionary time scale for the human genome to adjust. In conjunction with this discordance between our ancient, genetically determined biology and the nutritional, cultural, and activity patterns of contemporary Western populations, many of the so-called diseases of civilization have emerged. In particular, food staples and food-processing procedures introduced during the Neolithic and Industrial Periods have fundamentally altered 7 crucial nutritional characteristics of ancestral hominin diets: 1) glycemic load, 2) fatty acid composition, 3) macronutrient composition, 4) micronutrient density, 5) acid-base balance, 6) sodium-potassium ratio, and 7) fiber content. The evolutionary collision of our ancient genome with the nutritional qualities of recently introduced foods may underlie many of the chronic diseases of Western civilization.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/81/2/341

Now I think it's an earlier study that we talked about Amanda...?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Found it! See Gale Force's post coming up, it's online...

Human Nutrition
An
Evaluation
of Research in the
United States on

HUMAN NUTRITION
Report No. 2
Benefits from Nutrition Research

Prepared by
A JOINT TASK GROUP OF THE
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
AND THE STATE UNIVERSITIES
AND LAND GRANT COLLEGES

Benefits from Human Nutrition Research

by
C. Edith Weir

Human Nutrition Research Division
Agricultural Research Service
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

Issued August 1971
By
Science and Education Staff
United States Department of Agriculture
Washington, D.C.

This report is part of a study conducted at the direction of the
Agricultural Research Policy Advisory Committee, U.S. Department of
Agriculture. A joint task group representing the State Agricultural
Experiment Stations and the U.S. Department of Agriculture was
assigned the responsibility for making the study.
Task group members were:
Dr. Virginia Trotter, Co-chairman Dean, College of Home Economics
University of Nebraska
Dr. Steven C. King, Co-chairman Associate Director, Science and
Education Staff U.S. Department of Agriculture
Dr. Walter L. Fishel, Assistant Professor, Department of Agriculture
and Applied Economics, University of Minnesota
Dr. H. Wayne Bitting, Program Planning and Evaluation Staff
Agricultural Research Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture
Dr. C. Edith Weir, Assistant Director, Human Nutrition Research
Division, Agricultural Research Service U.S. Department of Agriculture

- ii -
CONTENTS
Nutrition Related Health Problems Page

Heart and Vasculatory
----------------------------------------------------------16
Respiratory and Infectious
-------------------------------------------------------33
Mental and Emotional Health
----------------------------------------------------40
Infant Mortality and Reproduction
-----------------------------------------------43
Early Aging and Lifespan
--------------------------------------------------------53
Arthritis and Rheumatism
--------------------------------------------------------61
Dental Health
--------------------------------------------------------64
Diabetes and Carbohydrate Disorders
-------------------------------------------67
Osteoporosis
--------------------------------------------------------72
Obesity
--------------------------------------------------------74
Anemia and Other Nutrient-Deficiency
------------------------------------------82
Alcoholism
--------------------------------------------------------89
Eyesight
--------------------------------------------------------92
Cosmetic
--------------------------------------------------------98
Allergies
-------------------------------------------------------100
Digestive Diseases
-------------------------------------------------------102
Kidney and Urinary
-------------------------------------------------------106
Muscle Disorders
-------------------------------------------------------108
Cancer
-------------------------------------------------------110

Individual Performance and Satisfactions

Improved Growth and Development
---------------------------------------------115
Improved Learning Ability
-------------------------------------------------------118

Efficiency in Food Services

Improved Efficiency in Food Selection
-------------------------------------------121
Improved Efficiency in Food Preparation and Menu Planning
--------------------122
Reduced Losses of Nutrients in Food Storage, Handling and
Preparation --------124
Improved Efficiency in Food Programs
------------------------------------------125
Source of Data for Figures
------------------------------------------------------127

*WAPF Comments to FDA on Food Pyramid mentioning this research:*
http://www.westonaprice.org/federalu...al_pres_04.pdf

Quote:

A 1971 USDA study on nutrition titled, "An Evaluation of Research in the Untied States on Human Nutrition" 1 reported:
• Major health issues are diet related;
• The solution to illness can be found in nutrition
• The real potential from improved diet is preventative in that it may defer or modify the development of a disease state 2
• Better health, a longer lifespan and greater satisfaction from work, family and leisure time are some of the benefits from improved nutrition

Interestingly, this study was never released to the public by the Nixon Administration, yet the findings are most critical to our welfare.
In addition, many now believe that we have more altered our food supply in the past 50 years than we have in the last 10,000 years when humans started to shift from hunters/gathers to farming.

Given these findings as well as many others, nutrition, food and our diets obviously play a most significant role in our health and well-being.

In our opinion, an effective approach to healthy nutrition is to go back to the four basic food groups and the eating practices recommended 60-70 years ago in books on nutrition and dietetics written before the introduction of imitation foods in the 1950s.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

There was some government publication authored by a woman some decades ago (maybe the 1970s??). There was a discussion on the internet about how it was covered up by the government. I don't remember if it was about processed foods per se, but it discussed nutrients and health and I think it had something about dental health. We exchanged emails about it Jane because I found the full text online somewhere after you gave me the author and the title. I lost my email messages from that period in the hard drive crash, so I don't remember what it was called.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

That's it!


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Here's an online version to save Jane's PM box.


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yes, that is what I'm thinking too...

This? You sent me the PDF of this entire article I believe. Whoops nevermind, entire article is linked below...

*Origins and evolution of the Western diet: health implications for the
21st century*
Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 Feb;81(2):341-54.
Cordain L, Eaton SB, Sebastian A, Mann N, Lindeberg S, Watkins BA, O'Keefe JH, Brand-****** J.
Department of Health and Exercise Science, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523, USA.

There is growing awareness that the profound changes in the environment (eg, in diet and other lifestyle conditions) that began with the introduction of agriculture and animal husbandry approximately 10000 y ago occurred too recently on an evolutionary time scale for the human genome to adjust. In conjunction with this discordance between our ancient, genetically determined biology and the nutritional, cultural, and activity patterns of contemporary Western populations, many of the so-called diseases of civilization have emerged. In particular, food staples and food-processing procedures introduced during the Neolithic and Industrial Periods have fundamentally altered 7 crucial nutritional characteristics of ancestral hominin diets: 1) glycemic load, 2) fatty acid composition, 3) macronutrient composition, 4) micronutrient density, 5) acid-base balance, 6) sodium-potassium ratio, and 7) fiber content. The evolutionary collision of our ancient genome with the nutritional qualities of recently introduced foods may underlie many of the chronic diseases of Western civilization.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/81/2/341

Now I think it's an earlier study that we talked about Amanda...?

This is such an interesting topic.
We had a similar discussion a few months back in my local Mom's group (www.fnlp.org) and one of the mamas (she's an MDC mama, too, but I don't think she's subbed here) is a doctoral student/archaelogist and posted this:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, this is something I know alot alot alot about. It was one of my Ph.D. exam questions. In archaeology, it is called the "Neolithic question" -- something we see over and over again in the skeletal remains of neolithic peoples. They are really unhealthy compared to their palaeolithic counterparts. Take one population which I know well -- Greece.

Remember: Palaeolithic = pre-agriculture. No dairy at all, hunting and gathering, wild meat. nomadic AND settled homes (caves) 500,000 BC until about 10,000 BC

Neolithic: agriculture, animals raised for meat/fur/dairy, settled villages as well as pastured areas away from the villages for their animals. After 10,000 BC (in the NE, 7,000 BC in Greece, later in Europe, Asia)

I've done alot of research on what people ate during both periods...the person writing this description of the palaeolthic diet is wrong on at least one major count. They ate grains and beans...not in the amount we do, to be sure, but they ate grasses and wild wheat/einkorn seasonally. They couldn't store them, but they did eat them when they were available in their areas. In Greece, there are 2 harvests. The Near East, 3 harvests in some areas (the fertile crescent, where agriculture seems to have begun, is aptly named for this reason!) They ate lots of small wild game (small mammals that were probably shared with a large extended family by making broths or soups), rare large game, and alot of fish & birds -- in Greece, even deep sea tuna (which required pretty good boats...seagoing...in the PALAEOLITHIC period!) They ate lots of greens (lots), berries, fruit, wild olives, eggs. Basically, they ate whatever they could get their hands on. We find that they cooked some of their food (another major problem with the article), especially meat and grains/legumes. But, most was consumed raw.

The NEOLITHIC period, well , their diets are alot like ours. All of a sudden, people have terrible teeth, cancers, diabetes (you can tell all this from the bones), osteoporosis, arthritis, etc. etc. People were shorter, had shorter life spans, had trouble giving birth (more infant/maternal mortality.) The Neolithic marks the time period when people consuming diets of grain, beer, legumes, some meat (raised, not wild) and dairy products. All cooked and processed. All of which are great sources of calories, but really was a blow to people's health.

We know all of this for the palaeolithic period because we've EXCAVATED and recovered this evidence. It is possible (actually easy) to recover all this information for very ancient times. Some goes for the Neolithic period, but also in the Neolithic, we have written records (especially in the NE) that give us a description of what they are eating, records of eating/farming/animal husbandry, etc.

I have to agree--- our genetics dictate that the Palaeolithic way of eating is the way our biology (all of us) are supposed to eat. We became genetically human at the dawn of the palaeolithic period. **** sapiens sapiens. We are the same people now as we were at the beginning of the palaeolithic period -- genetically, brain size, smarts, emotionally...language, sentimentality, art...we had it all by the time the palaeolithic period started. We have not adapted physically (genetically) to the influx of calories (with less nutritional value) that the neolithic/agricultural way of eating provides for us. This is a very very recent invention (Palaeolithic period begins 500,000 yrs ago in the NE. Compare that to the c. 10,000 yrs ago for the inception of agriculture.) People's health deteriorated in the Neolithic because of this. I am trying (badly most days, but trying) to eat with the palaeolithic diet in mind. Small amounts of grain/legumes, large amounts of veggies, fish, broths (not from small mammals, but chicken...) berries, fruits, eggs....AS SEASONALLY AS POSSIBLE! As raw as possible.


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

--continued--

And then when I questioned whether she thought that the answer lies in the fact that these ancient civilizations excercised (or at least moved around) more than we, she wrote:

Quote:

I looked at the matter of exercise as an answer for the "Neolithic Question" when I was studying for my doctoral exams (one year long study session...yuk) ... it would seem to make sense that exercise would be the answer...hunter/gatherers expend a lot of energy looking for/obtaining food and living and that would be the answer to all the problems in the Neolithic, when people became more settled, fat and happy. Well, the answer seems to be yes and no. Some people did less work because of something called "craft specialization", a phenomenon that occurs in the Neolthic, but never before. Some people farmed and farmed at a surplus so that others could then make jewelry, or pottery (another new invention in the neolithic), or be king, or be a priest in the temple, etc. People had exclusive jobs, and some weren't responsible for their own food for the first time, becoming dependent on storage systems and others' abilities to grow a surplus. But people have done calorie expenditure studies (believe it or not, it was a PH.D. dissertation....) on just this question, and it seems that MOST people actually expended MORE energy (worked harder!) during the Neolithic, not the Palaeolithic as it was assumed... there are lots of reasons for this -- living in towns means you are further (much further) away from your food source (if you are a farmer or pastoralist), water sources were often far away meaning alot of walking back and forth to get the water needed for daily chores...maintaining houses/temples/road works/irrigation systems means alot of labor on everyone's part. Food has to be prepared and processed, meaning hours of work for people at home. Before, it was mostly eaten raw.

Sooooo, exercise might be the answer for some for some of this -- temple priests and kings certainly did LESS labor than their palaeolithic forefathers. But for the vast majority of the population, it seems that this isn't the answer.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

OK, I asked this earlier, but nobody responded...c'mon wise healing mamas, someone's got to have at least an opinion on this! GaleForce...did you eat higher carb veggies on your diet?

"On this anti-candida diet I'm doing, only very low carb veggies are allowed, which means carrots, squash, and peas are not allowed. I asked the "founder" of the diet why it mattered whether I eat 20 carbs of squash in a meal or 20 carbs of green beans, cucumber, and onion in a meal. Her basic response was:
Quote:
It's not about the total carb count; it's the kind of
carbs, some of which feed candida. In fact all carbs turn into sugar
in the body, but the ones that are okayed for candida are the lowest
in sugar and carb content. Candida sufferers cannot avoid eating all
carbs. The range of veggies allowed contain low carbs & sugars, so it is
not the total count of carbs that matters. If it didn't matter where
you got your carbs from you could eat fruits, sugar and have milk and
cheese. But that isn't how it works. The higher the carb & sugar
content in a particular food the more it will feed candida and the
sicker you will feel.

This does not make sense to me. I understand that there are different types of sugars, and sugars like those found in dairy, starches, fruits, and sugar/honey/etc can feed yeast. But unless there is something I don't know about the particular sugars in carrots, peas, and squash, I don't understand why I can't eat them as long as I keep my total carb count within the "recommended" range for this diet (so basically her advice is coming across a load of bull)."


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Need opinions: should I start DD on solids? She'll be 8 months old in a week. She doesn't have a pincher grasp yet but has all the other markers for solids (and has for months). I'm not entirely sure the pincher grasp is really necessary--if the point is just so they'll be able to feed themselves, well, I think she'll manage just fine as she certainly manages to pick up and eat small bits of whatever is on the floor!

So...since she already has gut issues should I hold off a bit longer, or will the added benefit of being able to directly give her probiotics and/or lacto-fermented foods be worth starting her on solids?


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Wow all that talk about diets is so interesting! Its funny how some days you are so into this, and some days you just want to never have heard of it and go have that muffin!

*Questions:*
I started my first batch of cabbage rejuvelac this a.m. The top has a tight rubber seal (no air). Is that right, or should I let a little air in? The recipe for saurkraut says yes air







:

Also, on chicken liver: how much is too much?







I havent eaten it since childhood, and had a craving so made a batch of liver and onions, and there' not much left (yum). But I dont know whats in it nutritionally/calorically/fatly (lol) except iron and b6. Any insight? How much could/should/should not I eat per day/week?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*Cademyn* - could sugary veggies have the same type of sugar as fruit/honey/etc? I think so.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

caedmyn -- I don't know if what I did was a good idea, but it did work. I did not eat potatoes and in the beginning I did not eat beans. I lost weight so quickly that I added a couple of servings of beans a week. Other than that, I ate all things in the vegetable world. I didn't eat a lot of carrots or peas because I don't usually do so, but I did eat tomatoes.


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Question: I am currently taking two prescription meds that I believe are hurting my gut, and they are no longer necessary so I am working with my doc to get off of them. The soonest I can be off one is six weeks because I need to taper off... I guess, my question is that I can still work on diet and supplementing to begin the process, yes?

I ask because I am a perfectionist and this puts me on edge, lol.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

selu,
I've been wanting to post to your original questions here. Nak now so I'll write more later. If you are talking about antidpressants, let me just say that I am convinced that my gut healing *cured* my depression.


----------



## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
selu,
I've been wanting to post to your original questions here. Nak now so I'll write more later. If you are talking about antidpressants, let me just say that I am convinced that my gut healing *cured* my depression.

Yep, I am taking a combo of Wellbutrin and Klonopin since April. I am 99.999999% positive that the depression and anxiety are leaky gut/hypothyroid induced. Plus, the meds are making my constipation worse, if that was possible...







:


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

My DH found this article on the NY Times website. You have to sign up for a free account. It touches on gut issues but its focus is on obesity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/13/ma...09e&ei=5087%0A


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
This is such an interesting topic.
We had a similar discussion a few months back in my local Mom's group (www.fnlp.org) and one of the mamas (she's an MDC mama, too, but I don't think she's subbed here) is a doctoral student/archaelogist and posted this:

Has she read Weston Price's _Nutrition and Physical Degeneration_?
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html

Because he found many healthy societies eating similarly to the Neolithic period that was described: grains and dairy in the 1930's but with *no* cancer or cavities (well 1% or less cavity rate) or other degenerative diseases. He also studied skeletal remains as well. He travelled to about 40 different native tribes/villages of many different ethnic backgrounds, it was quite extensive. (25 of that 40 was African tribes but they ate differently.) He also studied people of same ethnic/racial background on "modern" foods to show that it was definitely diet and not genes.

P.S. he found no vegan societies that were healthy, this gets a lot of people up in arms. But animals fats were key to health. Whether the fish of the Polynesians or milk fat of the Masai tribe.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Selu*
Yep, I am taking a combo of Wellbutrin and Klonopin since April. I am 99.999999% positive that the depression and anxiety are leaky gut/hypothyroid induced. Plus, the meds are making my constipation worse, if that was possible...







:

Absolutely I will answer the same as Annikate. Nutritional deficiencies, including lack of ability to break down and correctly absorb your food messes with your mind and your mood. Also the neurotoxins produced by fermentation of foods and yeast/bacteria. But the issue now is that healing won't help you for a while....

What about amino acid supplementation to help you over this hump as you wean yourself? Gale Force has posted about that before, probably more in Mental Health forum.

Are you taking magnesium for the C.?


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

One question Ive had about all of this; so there has been some research showing that NT type diets develop healthier peoples. But did any of the research talk about life expectancy? If the people, or cdavers looked at were all 35 years old, then yeah, their teeth were pretty good and bones, etc. I bet this has come up but since Im a newbie... on top of which, my Dh is an MD. So you can imagine how hard it is to bring any of this up with him. he is very open and alternative minded, but wow, anything I say and he throws all kinds of stats at me (kindly). he's harshin' my gig man!









jess


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
My DH found this article on the NY Times website. You have to sign up for a free account. It touches on gut issues but its focus is on obesity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/13/ma...09e&ei=5087%0A


Quote:

Known collectively as the gut microflora (or microbiota, a term Gordon prefers because it derives from the Greek word bios, for "life"), these microbes have a Star Trek analogue, he says: the Borg Collective, a community of cybernetically enhanced humanoids with functions so intertwined that they operate as a single intelligence, sort of like an ant colony. In its Borglike way, the microflora assumes an extraordinary array of functions on our behalf - functions that we couldn't manage on our own. It helps create the capillaries that line and nourish the intestines. It produces vitamins, in particular thiamine, pyroxidine and vitamin K. It provides the enzymes necessary to metabolize cholesterol and bile acid. It digests complex plant polysaccharides, the fiber found in grains, fruits and vegetables that would otherwise be indigestible.

And it helps extract calories from the food we eat and helps store those calories in fat cells for later use - which gives them, in effect, a role in determining whether our diets will make us fat or thin.
Yes. You know how some people eat and eat and never gain weight, I'm convinced its gut flora as part of this connection. It was interesting to read about the viral angle I hadn't seen that before.

Elaine G. touched on this a bit too but she approached it from the idea of fermentation producing alcohol type compounds.

http://www.healingcrow.com/scdwisdom.../lwscd_62.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
One question Ive had about all of this; so there has been some research showing that NT type diets develop healthier peoples. But did any of the research talk about life expectancy? If the people, or cdavers looked at were all 35 years old, then yeah, their teeth were pretty good and bones, etc. I bet this has come up but since Im a newbie... on top of which, my Dh is an MD. So you can imagine how hard it is to bring any of this up with him. he is very open and alternative minded, but wow, anything I say and he throws all kinds of stats at me (kindly). he's harshin' my gig man!









jess

Well, living to 35 with barely no cavities is quite a feat! Yes he did talk a little about this but I can't remember much. I know older people were included in his stats for cavities in particular. The book was online at one point... get your DH to read it!! The stuff about mental attitude, palate width, and facial shape corresponding to diet is sooooo interesting.

YES, _Nutrition and Physical Degeneration_ is still online. Save it to your hard drive: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_lib.../pricetoc.html

This book will change your life, I'm not kidding.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Jess, read this on liver:

The Liver Files
Recipes and Lore About Our Most Important Sacred Food
http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/liver.html

I'm so jealous you are craving it. I'm doing "horrible" on my New Year's resolution to eat it once/week.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Need opinions: should I start DD on solids? She'll be 8 months old in a week. She doesn't have a pincher grasp yet but has all the other markers for solids (and has for months). I'm not entirely sure the pincher grasp is really necessary--if the point is just so they'll be able to feed themselves, well, I think she'll manage just fine as she certainly manages to pick up and eat small bits of whatever is on the floor!

So...since she already has gut issues should I hold off a bit longer, or will the added benefit of being able to directly give her probiotics and/or lacto-fermented foods be worth starting her on solids?

Thats a good question, what is her gut doing exactly?

I'm not sure I'd start her on lacto fermented foods, hmmm. Like what exactly?

Normally I'd recommend ripe bananas, avocado and egg yolk.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Caedmyn,

The carb count thing sounds similar to the Body Ecology Diet stuff, have you read that?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Here's an online version to save Jane's PM box.
















Thank you!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Thank you Amanda and Jane for the links.







:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
please talk to me more about the 24 hour yogurt. or point me in the right direction. i have read BTVC, but it was on loan to me and i don't have it in my possession right now. my ds appears to have a dairy allergy/intolerance...is the 24h yogurt vital to his healing??? is a mix of probiotics, following the scd, making life style changes enough to faciltate healing?

Yes, dairy free probiotics are fine, but my mind is that they need to be taken at least 3x/day and more than package directions to see any difference. (But start slow)

There are SCD legal dairy free probiotics recs on www.pecanbread.com

You can also make nut or coconut milk yogurt, recipes there too. I've made the cashew yogurt and it was good but not thick. I'm not sure if there is a coconut milk yogurt recipe there but maybe it was on the Yahoo group? Basically coconut milk and honey for a sugar for the critters to eat. Using ProGurt dairy free yogurt starter from www.GIProHealth.com. (Which is what I use for DS's goat yogurt too.)


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

selu,
re: depression and nutrition, I'm think someone already linked to the thread called "A True Natural Remedy" but if they haven't ask me and I'll post it.

I found that thread after I had completely weaned myself off of lexapro and a lightbulb went off. I didn't relate it to nutrition until I read some of Gale Force's posts over there.

I had already cut my dose in 1/2 before starting this diet. (I thought it was contributing to dd's sleep problems so I cut it in 1/2 to see.) I did okay on 1/2 and then after I was on this gut healing path (and added supplements to my diet), all of a sudden I wondered why I was taking it.

The first couple of weeks were touch and go and dh even asked me to consider taking it again. Gale Force recommended aminos during the *crisis* times and I took those for a couple of weeks and they helped immensely.









Now I don't take the aminos at all. Sometimes I think about it during PMS time though . . .

I truly believe that my depression (which I had been taking something for on and off for YEARS) was solely related to how my body absorbed (or didn't) necessary nutrients. (I was one of those who could eat and eat and not gain weight.) So that only goes to prove my point.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Nature's Way Reuteri rocks.*
http://www.naturesway.com/NaturesWay...roductid=15024

I highly recommend it for all people suffering from 'The Big D'. It doesn't have bifidus but it does have potato starch. We are using the version without FOS, the caplets, not the powder. I'm culturing in his yogurt with our regular starter.

DS poop is officially back to solid after our nightmare of going off all supplements, enzymes, etc. for testing. I will never, never, ever, ever do it again!!! Remind me and bash me over the head if I ever even think along those lines!!!!









Except now I'm all paranoid about the fact that it contains traces of milk and I might be doing him unseen harm... I think it might be time for allergy testing and why I was hanging out in the Allergies forum lately but, ahem.

*AmyD,*
You did RAST tests right?

*Firefaery,*
What did you do?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

What aminos did you take Annikate?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Jane,
I did RAST w/dd2.

Oh, and about reuteri: I FORGOT! I've been giving it to dd1 for the last 3 days and her poopies are getting better too! (Except I left it on the counter last night so now I have to go buy some more tomorrow.







)

I got the aminos from Kirkmans. It's the powder. I mix it in o.j. That's an amazing supplement.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

So tell me more about the RAST, how many things did you test?

That is the one that has a rating scale right?

How much blood did it require?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I don't think the Reuteri would expire in a night on the counter unless your house was 120 degrees... after all yogurt lasts at room temp. that is why people originally made yogurt before refrigeration!

The fridge is just for long term storage to ensure it lasts several months/years or whenever expiration dates is.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Oh, and another thing I wanted to tell you mamas,
I found a naturopath locally (well, about an hour away) and have an appt. for dd2 on Wed.)

Her sleeping is still awful and unless I get to the bottom of things I'm going to end up in the hospital myself.

She's been waking at night with a jolt and a scream as if someone is sticking her with a knife. It scares me. I mean, it makes me look around the room to see if there's really something there - - that's the type of waking she's been doing lately.

She also puked last night around midnight and then was fine. Now a low grade fever.







Must be a virus.

Anyway, this doctor is seeing friends of ours and she's knowledgeable in metal toxicity so I'm really looking forward to talking to her. Plus she has a lab on site and I've been wanting dd's thyroid tested anyway.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Jane~ we tested several ways. The lab test I found to be most accurate was Immunolabs. I think that's what you're asking-I've been gone so long I have no idea where you are. Doesn't sound good, though. Feel free to email me if you want more info-or we can of course talk here! I just don't want to be redundant.

Where did you find the article about infant gut flora? I need to give it to someone. I need info on strains of probiotics in an EBF infant...do you remember it? I haven't been able to put my finger on it.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I got the aminos from Kirkmans. It's the powder. I mix it in o.j. That's an amazing supplement.

This one? How's it taste?
http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/...upport229.html

I'm trying to hold off on any major changes 'til our next appt. with the DAN dr. but not sure that I can.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

It required a bit of blood. (I'm squeamish so I didn't look) but I know they used the connector so that they could fill a few vials quickly. The lab screwed up though and didn't get enough the first go around so I had to bring dd back for another draw. :irk

I'm quite sure that the allergist can determine what foods to test and how many. Our allergist mislead us and said he test the whole panel (even foods dd wasn't eating at the time.) BUT, when the results came back he had only asked them to test about 15 of the most common ones. Still though, it wasn't a total loss because it did show her wheat allergy (which I had suspected but then had proof.)

Yes, it has a scale. I know many people say not to bother because there can be false positives (and even our allergist said this) but it beats the he** out of the scratch tests.

DD's results only showed an allergy to wheat so there were no false positives for her.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Yup, that's the one.

It tastes kind of yucky but if you mix it in o.j. it's not bad. It has a nasty smell.

I bought the trial size and that lasted me a couple of weeks. I've only used the big one I bought maybe twice so far. (Shoulda bought another trial size!)

It helped me a lot. I took one tsp. twice a day. I think you can take up to 2 tsp. twice a day.

Sometimes I wonder if I should still be taking it for dd's sake.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Caedmyn,

The carb count thing sounds similar to the Body Ecology Diet stuff, have you read that?

Yeah...but I forgot what it said







I'm going through about 5 books a week now so sometimes I just skim them. Maybe I'll take a look at their website and see if it has any more info on the carb thing.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Thats a good question, what is her gut doing exactly?

I'm not sure I'd start her on lacto fermented foods, hmmm. Like what exactly?

Normally I'd recommend ripe bananas, avocado and egg yolk.

She still has a couple of "allergy" symptoms (cradle cap, circles under her eyes, red butt crack diaper rash). She also still has blood in her stool every once in a while. I have cheated with dairy a few times but I'm not sure the blood-in-the-stool is necessarily related as it doesn't really correlate with my cheats.

I was going to stay away from fruits for her since I think she may have yeast issues, also, so I'd probably start her with avocado and egg yolk. For lacto-fermented foods, I'd probably try homemade salsa (or maybe just pick out the tomatoes for her to try), or maybe pickles with the skin cut off.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
[ I think it might be time for allergy testing and why I was hanging out in the Allergies forum lately but, ahem.


I'm such a troublemaker







I take it the mods pulled that thread? I couldn't find it again. I started one in Life with a Babe (totally unrelated topic) today and it got pulled within about an hour after someone jumped on it advocating CIO in a very aggressive way. Sigh. I really wanted some feedback on my post too. Oh well.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

caedmyn,
You'd better not start anymore threads for a while.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Jane~ we tested several ways. The lab test I found to be most accurate was Immunolabs. I think that's what you're asking-I've been gone so long I have no idea where you are. Doesn't sound good, though. Feel free to email me if you want more info-or we can of course talk here! I just don't want to be redundant.

Where did you find the article about infant gut flora? I need to give it to someone. I need info on strains of probiotics in an EBF infant...do you remember it? I haven't been able to put my finger on it.

Start from beginning, don't worry about redundancy! Yes things with DS haven't gone anywhere essentially. Seems to be up and down.









Re: allergy testing

So far what I've noticed is that he really reacts to cow dairy, even butter, with raised welts on his torso. But goat yogurt/butter has been great. Goat cheese (aged, SCD legal) he couldn't seem to digest well the 2x I tried it so I haven't again).

I'm pretty sure all his problems don't stem from allergies simply because he's been everything free most of his life. And we tested really carefully with diet changes. When I added things like eggs or nuts or goat milk yogurt, no changes for the worse. But he just never got better with SCD either. The second CDSA bacteriology we did showed the Klebsiella (starch loving microbe) of last year gone but Proteus (protein digesting bad guy) has now taken up.

He's till stuck on a very very limited diet of green veggies, avocado, bananas, pears, meats, fish, eggs, nuts, broth and goat yogurt/butter. Butternut squash and carrots only once in a while otherwise his poop goes mush. It's truly amazing how many things I can manage to make with this repetoire but the poor kid is so fed up! We are using only Zyme Prime and No Fenol, he just cannot handle Peptizyde, even AFP. Brainchild minerals. HVCLO. High vit. C. Started goat colostrum a little bit ago.

So even though he eats like a gallon or more of goat yogurt/week, no lasting changes are occuring. I'm now I'm branching out into different probiotics, the L. Reuteri being the most beneficial. Begun seeing an Environmental/DAN dr. We did another CDSA but this time a complete one and our appt is first week of Sept. to review it. I have a good rec for a chiro and CST person too. The Homeopathy/Herbal/NAET doctor I totally lost faith in when she started throwing everything at him and being negative about NAET.

See my last post in Cheat Sheet on infant gut flora.

Bifidus only for EBF babe. Non dairy Natren Bifido factor or Natren Life Start is the one with dairy. There are few other non dairy ones too I thought but names are escaping me now. I did just find that Pharmax has one for infants that says dairy free but it has lactose.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

A couple of questions.

In my "Whole Foods For the Whole Family" cookbook it says that i can make cottage cheese with raw milk by just letting it sit out and sour and then cooking it some and draining the whey. Would this be lactose free?? Could I use this like the DCCC? I have some begining to sour milk and I hate to throw it out.

Also, my mother is following this diet but feels terrible unless she eats rice every couple of days. I think that she is preventing die off but she doesn't buy it. I'm going to visit her soon and need some proof that die off is a good thing. All she would tell me was that it was mentally that she felt terrible. So far every time she has argued with me about some aspect of this diet I have eventually been proved right. I just hate for her to be doing all the work of this and be missing out on the benefit because of some rice.


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## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
According to Optimal Digestion authors, some people who have badly irritated digestive tracts do react negatively to enzymes so it's important to go slowly with them.
And, I recall trying l-glutamine in the past and not loving it. I know it can cause constipation in some people and this can be a problem for me.


I'm glad I am reading through all the posts before posting- this answered part of my question I was logging on to ask: I've been taking the Thropps EliteZyme Ultra and things are not good. Here is one concern: I ate corn 4 or 5 days ago and am still seeing the little 'skins' of some kernels. WTH? Usually stuff passes in 24 hrs with me. Why am I still seeing this stuff? Granted, it is most often the whole kernel exactly as it went in, but how come it is taking so long in there? Otherwise, it seems the enzymes have put me back to square one with texture. Ug. By "go slowly with them", what should I be doing? I had been taking one just as I started eating with each main meal, I forgot once or twice. I haven't taken any today, I just can't do it to myself. Should I maybe start with only one per day?

Maybe glutamine could help me then; I've the opposite of const.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Wow this is a busy thread tonight. I want to keep up but need some sleep.

Patty, can you convince your mom to just stay off the rice for say, two weeks? Maybe then she'll go through the whole die-off and once she's beyond it will be convinced because she'd have experienced it herself.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yes Caedmyn, the Mod pulled it b/c of multiple violations. Too bad but at least I got to copy over several of Insider's posts to the "How Not to Have An Allergic Child" thread b/c they were so good. I will go back to that thread again b/c there's a lot I want to say about why DS is the way he is "environmentally".


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Selu,

Your nutritional changes will make going off the meds *easier.* Definitely stick with it and if you are still struggling, look into amino acids but don't stop the gut healing and nutrition focus or you will have a hard time getting off of the amino acids and you'll probably continue to have other health problems.

Amanda


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Man, I hate it when I miss all of the excitement.


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## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

I really must read the thread daily; I am having quite a challenge reading to catch up.

But I do want to ask a few things (I am sorry if they are lame ?s, I'm such a newbie and so overwhelmed.... *gulp*).

*Kefir and yogurt*: Does everybody on here make their own yogurt? Am I an idiot for eating yoplait? And the kefir- I've been downing maybe 8oz per day, haven't seen anything remarkable from that. Should I increase the amount of kefir? Should I increase yogurt? Should I avoid store-bought yogurt and kefir? If they are ok, are there brands that are better than others?

*Benefiber* While I'm at it, I've been taking a dose of benefiber daily. This seems to help marginally (enough that I don't think I want to give it up unless told it is a bad bad thing) ETA (I take it to firm up stools, as D is my problem), any opinions on benefiber?

*Honey*. I've been mixing a bit of honey in my hot water/benefiber drink. Thinking honey should be a good thing? Am I wrong there?

And I already asked my enzyme question a bit ago on a different post...

I have found I can only take so much of dealing with this, immersing myself in it for a period of time and then I have to back off. I just get so depressed. I know it'll get better as I learn more, just have to keep working at it (the knowledge-gathering as well as trying things to heal my gut).

I appreciate all of you wise women more than you'll ever know. Thank you for being willing to share your information and experiences.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Wow this is a busy thread tonight. I want to keep up but need some sleep.

Patty, can you convince your mom to just stay off the rice for say, two weeks? Maybe then she'll go through the whole die-off and once she's beyond it will be convinced because she'd have experienced it herself.

I might be able to but if I could find something that wasn't me telling her that die off is normal it would sure help. Honestly she probably won't even read it. I should just make up an article.....







:


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*

*AmyD,*
You did RAST tests right?


Twice on DS1. First time tested a 1 to corn, peanuts & carrots. He was about 15m old. Second time tested a 1 (IgG) to honey, egg whites & coconut--about 5m ago.

I'm not feeling the RAST love. I wonder how he would have tested after I took the peanuts/corn/carrots out? Would it then have been parsnips/peas/almonds? And on & on until we cut out all 40 offending foods







: I think since he tests so low to "allergic reactions" it is a leaky gut issue. And he hasn't tested positive to cow dairy or wheat and/or gluten----which makes no freakin' sense at all.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
I really must read the thread daily; I am having quite a challenge reading to catch up.

But I do want to ask a few things (I am sorry if they are lame ?s, I'm such a newbie and so overwhelmed.... *gulp*).

*Kefir and yogurt*: Does everybody on here make their own yogurt? Am I an idiot for eating yoplait? And the kefir- I've been downing maybe 8oz per day, haven't seen anything remarkable from that. Should I increase the amount of kefir? Should I increase yogurt? Should I avoid store-bought yogurt and kefir? If they are ok, are there brands that are better than others?

*Benefiber* While I'm at it, I've been taking a dose of benefiber daily. This seems to help marginally (enough that I don't think I want to give it up unless told it is a bad bad thing), any opinions on benefiber?

*Honey*. I've been mixing a bit of honey in my hot water/benefiber drink. Thinking honey should be a good thing? Am I wrong there?

And I already asked my enzyme question a bit ago on a different post...

I have found I can only take so much of dealing with this, immersing myself in it for a period of time and then I have to back off. I just get so depressed. I know it'll get better as I learn more, just have to keep working at it (the knowledge-gathering as well as trying things to heal my gut).

I appreciate all of you wise women more than you'll ever know. Thank you for being willing to share your information and experiences.

Yoplait is a nice desert, but not much good for gut healing. Sorry. I assume you aren't doing scd. I don't remember your story. Store bought kefir may have sugar in it, it is probably low fat (at least I have only ever found low fat) and low fat dairy has it's own problems. If you are going to do store bought do plain kefir and yogurt. Brown Cow yogurt is a good commercial one but no where near as good (for you) as home made.

I assume the benefiber is for constipation. The more I learn the more I realize that constipation is a factor of gut flora, not fiber. The benefiber may be actually feeding the bad guys in your gut and not allowing it to heal, but if you aren't doing scd then you are probably feeding the bad guys anyhow. What about prunes? Those are scd legal.

Honey is scd legal, it is the only sweetener that is. If you don't have a yeast issue. We do and have cut out honey here.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
She's been waking at night with a jolt and a scream as if someone is sticking her with a knife. It scares me. I mean, it makes me look around the room to see if there's really something there - - that's the type of waking she's been doing lately.

She also puked last night around midnight and then was fine. Now a low grade fever.







Must be a virus.


We're dealing with this type of waking - only it happens just 2 hours before ds would normally get up. It started when ds picked up a cold just before last weekend. Thursday we started battling our second round of rotavirus (round 1 was in February and started us down this whole path of healing). In the wee hours this morning, my dh succumbed. We have some friends staying with us and their 9 month old ds also picked it up and is, after 12 hours of heaving, now keeping breastmilk down. I'm waiting to see who will be hit next - hoping my kefir and lots of ascorbate will protect me. This strain took out ds's entire daycare class like some of those shooting match games at state fairs. ping. ping. ping.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Thats a good question, what is her gut doing exactly?

I'm not sure I'd start her on lacto fermented foods, hmmm. Like what exactly?

Normally I'd recommend ripe bananas, avocado and egg yolk.

Hmm. Nolan is 8.5 months and I have tried banana and avocado, he spit up both for a couple of hrs after he ate it. I assume this means his gut is not ready for raw solids yet? I gave him a couple spoonfuls of broth today, that stayed down. He also seems to like butternut and acorn squash and keeps them down fine.

He poops only once a week-is this normal?


----------



## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Yoplait is a nice desert, but not much good for gut healing. Sorry. I assume you aren't doing scd. I don't remember your story. Store bought kefir may have sugar in it, it is probably low fat (at least I have only ever found low fat) and low fat dairy has it's own problems. If you are going to do store bought do plain kefir and yogurt. Brown Cow yogurt is a good commercial one but no where near as good (for you) as home made.

I assume the benefiber is for constipation. The more I learn the more I realize that constipation is a factor of gut flora, not fiber. The benefiber may be actually feeding the bad guys in your gut and not allowing it to heal, but if you aren't doing scd then you are probably feeding the bad guys anyhow. What about prunes? Those are scd legal.

Honey is scd legal, it is the only sweetener that is. If you don't have a yeast issue. We do and have cut out honey here.

Thank you Patty. Tonight I took the plunge and finally read the scd website. Amazingly, my library has the book. Should be able to get it this week and start reading.

The scd website makes yogurt making look so easy- is it in reality? I've always been intrigued with the idea of making my own, looks like maybe now is a good reason and time to do so.


----------



## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Absolutely I will answer the same as Annikate. Nutritional deficiencies, including lack of ability to break down and correctly absorb your food messes with your mind and your mood. Also the neurotoxins produced by fermentation of foods and yeast/bacteria. But the issue now is that healing won't help you for a while....

What about amino acid supplementation to help you over this hump as you wean yourself? Gale Force has posted about that before, probably more in Mental Health forum.

Are you taking magnesium for the C.?









The more I learn the more it becomes *so* obvious.

I am looking into amino acids but I've not taken them before.

I have a mag supplement but it is not a 2:1 with calcium so I wonder how good it is. I do take it with my multi (New Chapter) but I dunno how much is being absorbed.


----------



## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
selu,
re: depression and nutrition, I'm think someone already linked to the thread called "A True Natural Remedy" but if they haven't ask me and I'll post it.

I think I have it bookmarked! I need resources like this, for sure.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I had already cut my dose in 1/2 before starting this diet. (I thought it was contributing to dd's sleep problems so I cut it in 1/2 to see.) I did okay on 1/2 and then after I was on this gut healing path (and added supplements to my diet), all of a sudden I wondered why I was taking it.

I am cutting my doses in half and I will be off the Well. in 4 weeks, maybe less, as there is less chance of side effects and rebound. The klonopin will take a bit longer, unfortunately.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
The first couple of weeks were touch and go and dh even asked me to consider taking it again. Gale Force recommended aminos during the *crisis* times and I took those for a couple of weeks and they helped immensely.









I am definitely looking into these, thank you so much.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I truly believe that my depression (which I had been taking something for on and off for YEARS) was solely related to how my body absorbed (or didn't) necessary nutrients. (I was one of those who could eat and eat and not gain weight.) So that only goes to prove my point.

I really, really think this is the case for me. The more physically ill I become the more depressed and anxious I feel... the only time I've not taken meds and felt really good was when I was doing a lower carb version of NT. Tells me a lot, lol.


----------



## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I got the aminos from Kirkmans. It's the powder. I mix it in o.j. That's an amazing supplement.

I just found this online! I am ordering some.


----------



## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Selu,

Your nutritional changes will make going off the meds *easier.* Definitely stick with it and if you are still struggling, look into amino acids but don't stop the gut healing and nutrition focus or you will have a hard time getting off of the amino acids and you'll probably continue to have other health problems.

Amanda

Amanda,

Thank you. I definitely thinks so too, I need to see it in print for my perfectionist tendencies, unfortunately.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
OK, I asked this earlier, but nobody responded...c'mon wise healing mamas, someone's got to have at least an opinion on this! GaleForce...did you eat higher carb veggies on your diet?

"On this anti-candida diet I'm doing, only very low carb veggies are allowed, which means carrots, squash, and peas are not allowed. I asked the "founder" of the diet why it mattered whether I eat 20 carbs of squash in a meal or 20 carbs of green beans, cucumber, and onion in a meal. Her basic response was:
Quote:
It's not about the total carb count; it's the kind of
carbs, some of which feed candida. In fact all carbs turn into sugar
in the body, but the ones that are okayed for candida are the lowest
in sugar and carb content. Candida sufferers cannot avoid eating all
carbs. The range of veggies allowed contain low carbs & sugars, so it is
not the total count of carbs that matters. If it didn't matter where
you got your carbs from you could eat fruits, sugar and have milk and
cheese. But that isn't how it works. The higher the carb & sugar
content in a particular food the more it will feed candida and the
sicker you will feel.

This does not make sense to me. I understand that there are different types of sugars, and sugars like those found in dairy, starches, fruits, and sugar/honey/etc can feed yeast. But unless there is something I don't know about the particular sugars in carrots, peas, and squash, I don't understand why I can't eat them as long as I keep my total carb count within the "recommended" range for this diet (so basically her advice is coming across a load of bull)."


IMO it has to do with blood sugar, how quickly it turns into glucose. Low-carb veggies have more protein/fiber per carb than high carb veggies and it slows down digestion and the rate at which the sugar enters the blood stream. I think systemic candida feeds on blood sugar, too, not just what goes does down the gut. That's why honey is no good. But that's just my theory, I don't know how scientific it is... probably not. I'd go with Bee's advice.


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
Maybe glutamine could help me then; I've the opposite of const.

Maybe so...if anything, I'm definitely more on the constipated (not that I'm NOT going - it's just that the poop is harder than I want. Sorry about TMI!) side with the l-glutamine.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Has she read Weston Price's Nutrition and Physical Degeneration?
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html

Because he found many healthy societies eating similarly to the Neolithic period that was described: grains and dairy in the 1930's but with no cancer or cavities (well 1% or less cavity rate) or other degenerative diseases. He also studied skeletal remains as well. He travelled to about 40 different native tribes/villages of many different ethnic backgrounds, it was quite extensive. (25 of that 40 was African tribes but they ate differently.) He also studied people of same ethnic/racial background on "modern" foods to show that it was definitely diet and not genes.

P.S. he found no vegan societies that were healthy, this gets a lot of people up in arms. But animals fats were key to health. Whether the fish of the Polynesians or milk fat of the Masai tribe.

I'm not sure if she's read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration but she is a big fan of Nourishing Traditions. I'm not sure if she had looked into NT/WAPF before she and I met or if it was after. I'm pretty positive it was after since she had been a vegetarian (religious reasons as well as *health*) and soon started to eat meat after reading NT. I am a former chapter leader for WAPF and sang NT's praises from the rafters back in the day. I still support the group and follow many of the principles - but I do have issues with a few things they recommend. For one, they give the impression that EVERYONE can digest cow's milk in it's raw state (or fermented) and that is NOT the case. It's not a panacea. And don't get me started on their stance on breastfeeding...







:
But I wholeheartedly support their stance on soy, fermenting, sprouting and bone broths.








As for veganism...ITA and it has gotten me in lots of arguments over the years!


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
OK, I asked this earlier, but nobody responded...c'mon wise healing mamas, someone's got to have at least an opinion on this! GaleForce...did you eat higher carb veggies on your diet?

"On this anti-candida diet I'm doing, only very low carb veggies are allowed, which means carrots, squash, and peas are not allowed. I asked the "founder" of the diet why it mattered whether I eat 20 carbs of squash in a meal or 20 carbs of green beans, cucumber, and onion in a meal. Her basic response was:
Quote:
It's not about the total carb count; it's the kind of
carbs, some of which feed candida. In fact all carbs turn into sugar
in the body, but the ones that are okayed for candida are the lowest
in sugar and carb content. Candida sufferers cannot avoid eating all
carbs. The range of veggies allowed contain low carbs & sugars, so it is
not the total count of carbs that matters. If it didn't matter where
you got your carbs from you could eat fruits, sugar and have milk and
cheese. But that isn't how it works. The higher the carb & sugar
content in a particular food the more it will feed candida and the
sicker you will feel.

This does not make sense to me. I understand that there are different types of sugars, and sugars like those found in dairy, starches, fruits, and sugar/honey/etc can feed yeast. But unless there is something I don't know about the particular sugars in carrots, peas, and squash, I don't understand why I can't eat them as long as I keep my total carb count within the "recommended" range for this diet (so basically her advice is coming across a load of bull)."

In the book Optimal Digestion there's a chapter on diets that talks about this topic. What it says in a nutshell is that eliminating ALL carbohydrates is usually NOT a good thing for many people. While our bodies can extract carbs from meat, often times certain individuals will require more than that. This is a perfect example of why one diet does not work for everyone. Each of us needs to do a little trial and error before believing any one diet is gospel.
I agree that it's imperative to remove processed carbs and sugars from the diet when yeast/parasites are a problem but for some people the addition of carbs such as sweet potatoes or red potatoes (made with good fats) will not fuel the bad guys but WILL prevent the person from losing too much weight and/or never feel satieted.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Jane,
How do you kill the Proteus if your DS can't handle high proteases?

Also, I have an OT question. Is it possible to heal without removing amalgam fillings? It's just not a possibility at this point, financially. And my DH would never let me have them removed after he payed so much money to have them put in (before I knew anything about mercury toxicity and before I got sick)
I think mercury might be the reason why the diet and supplements are not helping as much as they should and my immune s. is still depressed. I read that chelation is dangerous while you have them so I can't really do much just hope that the proper diet will help to reduce the load.

Caedmyn,
Is the cabbage juice helping? I'm planning to start Bee's candida diet and since I've been on a somewhat candida diet and garlic for a long time, I'll just jump right in with the cabbage rejuvelac.


----------



## member (Apr 15, 2002)

I found out my farmer is not going to have pastured chicken anymore.









So... I ordered the new pastured organic chickens that Tropical Traditions is selling. Pricey. The credit card people just love me. Hee. Bone broths here I come!


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I did just find that Pharmax has one for infants that says dairy free but it has lactose.









I'm almost positive the Pharmax one has strains besides bifidus, so it's not for EBF babies (in spite of what the manufacturer's recommendations for use are).


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Caedmyn,
Is the cabbage juice helping? I'm planning to start Bee's candida diet and since I've been on a somewhat candida diet and garlic for a long time, I'll just jump right in with the cabbage rejuvelac.

It gave me some bloating and a rumbly stomach, so I assume it's killing something in there


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Pharmax is a fabulous company but their Neonate probiotic should NOT be used for EBF.

Jane~so many hugs going your way! Immunolabs will be a good bet for you if you choose to pursue allergy testing. Don't do the pediatric panel, do the adult. Slightly more expensive (insurance should cover it) but people don't understand that if you breastfed it's irrelevant what the child has or hasn't eaten. IF you had a damaged gut and ate it, so did he. It's very accurate, no false positives, but there may be false negatives (dd didn't come up allergic to dairy, but she is) THe accuracy is better the older the child is. They can test for yeast as well as environmental, IgG and IgE reactions.

We've done many other "alternative" things as you know, but I did post awhile back that I got a medical intuituve to read for them and she got EVERYTHING on the panel as well as a few that weren't there. I hadn't seen the panel when I got the reading and was shocked when the results finally came. I chose not to eliminate dairy for dd because it wasn't on the panel. It was a mistake. THe reading in my mind was more accurate.

I'm sorry about your doc, I wasn't happy from what you were posting online. Homeopathy really only works if the person is great, and in my experience nobody who is great does more than just homeopathy. I run quickly from anyone who is an ND, but does homeopathy/accupuncture etc. Too much. Doesnt' give you time to be anything more than good at any one thing. Just my opinion, but I've worked with many docs and seen it time and again.

So you have or haven't done the NAET? Have you though about doing any other kinds of testing? With someone who knows what they are doing muscle testing is very accurate. You could start by testing what he is eating and then branch out. The Immunolabs test is nice because they test for something like 180 foods all at once. He's either got antigens or he doesn't.

I know it may not be an attractive option (and don't shoot me here) but have you thought about eliminating the goat products? If he reacts that strongly to cow's I'd think about it. THey are different, but not that different. IT may be something that is holding his healing back. Ds cannot do cow's dairy at all (MAJOR reactions) and I did goat's for awhile and didn't *see* a reaction. THere was one. IT just took longer to show up. Since it's been gone, if he gets it again the rash on his cheeks flares right on up again and his behavior is off the wall. Just a thought. I know of two other people that have the same issue. Major reactions to cow dairy and milder, albeit significant reactions to goat's.

I'll try to write more later-nak is making this tough.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

OT
Mercola is hawking a new probiotic cultured in goat's milk, 26 billion CFUs. Contains l. acidophilus, l. casei, b. longum, thermophilus and bulgaricus. So it's not much different from our yogurt... I wonder if you could use it as a starter since it has the yogurt bugs...and it's cultured in goat milk. But it has bifidus


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *firefaery*
We've done many other "alternative" things as you know, but I did post awhile back that I got a medical intuituve to read for them and she got EVERYTHING on the panel as well as a few that weren't there. I hadn't seen the panel when I got the reading and was shocked when the results finally came. I chose not to eliminate dairy for dd because it wasn't on the panel. It was a mistake. THe reading in my mind was more accurate.
Is this the lady that we talked about several months ago? I really should call her again.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

That would be her!


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Aren't some of you in CT? I'm going to be at my parents in Tolland from the 23 to the 30th of this month...


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I am! I even have relatives in Tolland!


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Oooo!!! Can I squeeze your new wee one while I'm there???? How far from Tolland are you? I won't have a car but can borrow my parents some if needed.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I might be able to but if I could find something that wasn't me telling her that die off is normal it would sure help. Honestly she probably won't even read it. I should just make up an article.....







:











The candida support yahoo group had info about die-off. YOu have to sign up but it is free. If you look in their 'files' they have an article 'healing naturally and die-off symptoms'


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*









The candida support yahoo group had info about die-off. YOu have to sign up but it is free. If you look in their 'files' they have an article 'healing naturally and die-off symptoms'

Yea but she doesn't think she has yeast so that won't work for her. Hmmm... if I can convince her that she has yeast... which she probably does... Hmmmmm....

Thanks!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

OY Caedmyn, you are putting me thru the wringer...









I was feeling so good about maybe possibly ttc in the new year with my "healed gut" and now I'm not so sure!!

(What exactly is the test for a "healed gut"... eating absolutely anything you want including the worse foods you can imagine??)


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
OT
Mercola is hawking a new probiotic cultured in goat's milk, 26 billion CFUs. Contains l. acidophilus, l. casei, b. longum, thermophilus and bulgaricus. So it's not much different from our yogurt... I wonder if you could use it as a starter since it has the yogurt bugs...and it's cultured in goat milk. But it has bifidus









It's really Mt. Capra Probiotics Plus under his brand name, and you can get Mt. C cheaper elsewhere.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

BTW- I am currently culturing yogurt w/megaflora as a starter. I did one qt with just megaflora and one with megaflora plus a packet of yogurmet. I'll let you know how it comes out tomorrow.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Pharmax is a fabulous company but their Neonate probiotic should NOT be used for EBF.

Why is that, FOS? I noticed it said "no dairy" but still had lactose, thought that was weird.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Jane~so many hugs going your way! Immunolabs will be a good bet for you if you choose to pursue allergy testing. Don't do the pediatric panel, do the adult. ... They can test for yeast as well as environmental, IgG and IgE reactions.

That sounds good, thank you! I'll check it out and take it up with the doc.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
We've done many other "alternative" things as you know, but I did post awhile back that I got a medical intuituve to read for them and she got EVERYTHING on the panel as well as a few that weren't there.

OMG, DH will flip about this one but can you PM me info?!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
So you have or haven't done the NAET? Have you though about doing any other kinds of testing? With someone who knows what they are doing muscle testing is very accurate. You could start by testing what he is eating and then branch out.

We did the first balancing session with the MD/Homeopath/Herbalist/NAET Practioner ... I lost trust in her. And she didnt' sound positive describing NAET results (and isn't a positive intent everything in energy healing?)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I know it may not be an attractive option (and don't shoot me here) but have you thought about eliminating the goat products? If he reacts that strongly to cow's I'd think about it.

Hey no worries, not like I hadn't thought of it too, albeit sadly. The thing is that he was on SCD for more months OFF goat yogurt and dairy in any form than on it. It's possible that is holding him back, but generally my notes and my and DH's impressions are that his central nervous system has matured even if his gut has not. At least with the raw goat yogurt he started growing again too. There's no way I'd get that much broth into him, it's already a struggle. Maybe coconut milk with dolomite powder. UGH. But absolutely this is a consideration.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I'll try to write more later-nak is making this tough.

Thank you, I really appreciate it!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
BTW- I am currently culturing yogurt w/megaflora as a starter. I did one qt with just megaflora and one with megaflora plus a packet of yogurmet. I'll let you know how it comes out tomorrow.

Goodness gracious what *doesn't* that product have!!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I might be able to but if I could find something that wasn't me telling her that die off is normal it would sure help. Honestly she probably won't even read it. I should just make up an article.....







:

What about giving her the Beginner Intro and Science Behind the Diet sections on BTVC.info to read?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I was going to stay away from fruits for her since I think she may have yeast issues, also, so I'd probably start her with avocado and egg yolk. For lacto-fermented foods, I'd probably try homemade salsa (or maybe just pick out the tomatoes for her to try), or maybe pickles with the skin cut off.

I'm not sure I would do that based on my DS's experience with fermented foods... he cannot tolerate them at all (used to when he was bf'ing...sigh). So maybe cooked veggies would be best?

Here's a fun reference...

Enzymes in Human Milk:
http://darwin.nap.edu/books/03090439...63e39960139001


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Twice on DS1. First time tested a 1 to corn, peanuts & carrots. He was about 15m old. Second time tested a 1 (IgG) to honey, egg whites & coconut--about 5m ago.

I'm not feeling the RAST love. I wonder how he would have tested after I took the peanuts/corn/carrots out? Would it then have been parsnips/peas/almonds? And on & on until we cut out all 40 offending foods







: I think since he tests so low to "allergic reactions" it is a leaky gut issue. And he hasn't tested positive to cow dairy or wheat and/or gluten----which makes no freakin' sense at all.

This is what confuses me about the whole dam thing and why we haven't done one until now and just relied on testing and observation.







:


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
A couple of questions.

In my "Whole Foods For the Whole Family" cookbook it says that i can make cottage cheese with raw milk by just letting it sit out and sour and then cooking it some and draining the whey. Would this be lactose free?? Could I use this like the DCCC? I have some begining to sour milk and I hate to throw it out.

I don't know but that is a very good question. Presumably if it's sour as heck then all the sugar would be gone... ?


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Pattyla~about 35 minutes. Squeeze away! There's a couple of super crunchy play groups around here, I'll see what's going on that week. There's a great park with a playscape, large field and huge sprinklers! The MDC mamas hang there.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I wanna come!


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*

So you have or haven't done the NAET? Have you though about doing any other kinds of testing? With someone who knows what they are doing muscle testing is very accurate. You could start by testing what he is eating and then branch out. The Immunolabs test is nice because they test for something like 180 foods all at once. He's either got antigens or he doesn't.

I'll try to write more later-nak is making this tough.











Muscle testing- are you speaking of Kinesiology? I have gone to a chiro/AK in the past and would go again. Can he help us narrow down allergens in an 8 month old baby?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Thought this was interesting. Can you really get garlic's benefits through the skin?

Skin Treatment with GOOT

Anti-infection/Anti-fungal/Anti-parasites - a.k.a. "GOOT"

Kills Candida, parasites, bacteria and viruses when directly applied. In addition, it treats systemic infections by absorption through the skin into the blood supply and travels throughout the body.

· Warm 3 tablespoons of Coconut oil in a small pan until melted and warm (don't heat it too much).

· Add 3 tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil, and mix well.

· Remove from heat and add 1 tablespoon of freshly chopped garlic.

· Put mixture in the blender, and blend at slow speed, and then at high speed for 2 minutes.

· Strain the mixture to remove chunks of garlic that the blender may have missed.

· Pour into a wide mouth jar and keep in a refrigerator.

It turns into a thick soft paste after 1 hour. After two weeks, make a new batch.

Applications

· Rubbed into the skin, it transfers raw garlic oil directly into the bloodstream.

· Apply to the feet of children or infants to fight infections.

· Rub on the chest for chest colds and pneumonia.

· Rub into nostrils for sinus infections.

· Apply directly to sores inside the mouth.

· Rub on Athlete's foot and genital area for jock itch.

· Put the mixture into gelatin capsules to insert into the vagina or rectum, for yeast or other related infections.

· Apply on rashes any where on the body.

· Use a cotton swab to apply it to the ears, or put a few drops in each ear followed by a cotton ball.

Reference

http://www.keephopealive.org/symptoms.html


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
This is what confuses me about the whole dam thing and why we haven't done one until now and just relied on testing and observation.







:









The immunolabs that firefaery recommended is supposed to be topnotch. We were going to go that route, but our ins wouldn't pay for it,


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Thought this was interesting. Can you really get garlic's benefits through the skin?

I got this info from an herbally minded group I belong to. I thought it was very interesting, and it's in the same vein as your post:

Quote:

Garlic Paste for Pneumonia

by Dr. John R. Christopher

I remember one time we were called out to a house in the wee hours
of the morning. This call was to see a little boy, under the age of
two years, that had double pneumonia. The physician on the case had
informed the parents that nothing more could be done and he would
come back in the morning to sign the child's death certificate.
Seeing as it was well under forty degrees below zero and nearly
fifty miles from ambulance service, the parents were told that the
boy, if taken by car to a hospital, would surely die.

These parents tried to get other doctors, but at that time of night,
and in such a remote area, no one would offer help. A friend told
them about us, then living in Evanston, Wyoming and to try to call
us. Having been told of the boy's condition we went expecting to
give him the cold-sheet-treatment. Upon arriving there we found that
the plumbing was frozen and there was not running water in the
house. We found enough in the toilet tank above the bowl to give the
little chap an enema.

We were not able to give the cold sheet treatment (no water) so only
the garlic paste was made up and applied. This was done after a
complete massage of the body and the feet. After oiling the feet up
to the ankles, thoroughly, and massaging the olive oil in well, a
half-inch thickness of the garlic paste was applied to the soles of
his feet. (This is put on only the soles and not up onto the sides).
Then gauze was placed over to cover the paste, bandages to hold it
into place, and a loose white cotton sick was pulled over the
bandages to hold them securely.

Garlic paste is made by taking freshly peeled buttons of garlic and
garlic about half and half with Vaseline. This amount can very,
according to the toughness of the feet, more Vaseline for tender
feet, less for thicker skin. many of the health minded readers will
be shocked by our using a low-vibration ointment like Vaseline
instead of using anhydrous lanolin or some lighter more organic type.

The reasoning for this is that the lighter type ointments will
penetrate more quickly into the skin, but the Vaseline will hold the
garlic on in ointment form. This will also keep the garlic from
blistering as easily. (A garlic blister looks bad, but does not hurt
and heals back quickly.)

The little boy was running an extremely high fever and was delirious
when he was covered and put back into bed. (This was well after 2:00
a.m.). We assured the parents the child would be all right and would
get well.

A few days later we were called again by these parents. They told us
that the doctor came back to sign the death certificate that next
morning, but the little boy was sitting in his high chair, drinking
some juice and breathing normally as if nothing had happened the
night before. The doctor became so angry and demanded to know the
name of the other doctor who had taken over the case before it had
been released by him. He wanted a hearing by "the board" to have the
other doctor thrown out of practice for going "against procedure" by
taking over a case without written release. The parents asked if
his "release" was the death of their child? He probably changed his
mind because we were not brought before a hearing.

A Little About Garlic

The garlic clove contains a very high amount of sulphur; sulphur is
one of the best minerals to be used as an oxygen carrier. Oxygen is
the breath of life and sulphur will carry the oxygen in the body
directly to the infected area. Germs cannot live in a good supply of
oxygen, therefore, the infection is cleared quickly. This is an
organic wonder, so garlic may be termed 'a wonder herb'.

Medical science discovered that sulphur caused this rapid healing,
so in WWII, flowers of sulphur (an inorganic mined-mineral) was
substituted for garlic. The army used sulfa for practically every
ailment from "falling hair to fallen arches". Wonderful results were
reported to us and we were told to use it in ever increasing amounts.

The difference between garlic and the inorganic, manmade remedies is
that garlic does its job and the excess of the organic materials not
being used in healing the infection is easily passed as harmless
vegetable fiber from the body. no harm and certainly
nothing but good could result from using this powerful, yet
harmless, herb. But, with the man-made sulfa drug we used,
eventually combined with the urine and formed a substance that cut
up the urinary tract, causing bed wetters. Many soldiers and other
servicemen were given medical discharges, because of "bed wetting".
This habit was acquired while in the service after the use of sulfa
drugs. It is a well-known fact that too much sulfa drug has also
caused other problems. The sulphur in the garlic will assist in
healing the urinary tract after its infection-clearing job, instead
of damaging it.
I also want to add that garlic will burn the skin, that's why Vaseline (as everyone cringes) is used. It is thick enough to protect the skin.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
It's really Mt. Capra Probiotics Plus under his brand name, and you can get Mt. C cheaper elsewhere.

Really? Cool. Thank you!


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I wish garlic was so effective for me, too.........

OK, so I've been sugar free for 9 months and taking CO since January. I eat plenty of butter (can't afford butter oil). Yesterday I discovered a cavity! (One more thing on my list of ailments) So why is that? My diet is better than ever and I get a cavity? I also take dolomite for cal-mag. supplementation. Any ideas?
So if I need a filling, what is the alternative to amalgam?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

EBG, They'll give you some kind of composite filling. I think it's some sort of resin.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Why is that, FOS? I noticed it said "no dairy" but still had lactose, thought that was weird.


The Pharmax infant probiotic contains several strains of probiotics, not just bifidus. Apparently somebody there didn't do their research before promoting it from birth...


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Interesting article on the link between obesity and microflora here.

Requires NYT account or use www.bugmenot.com.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--if I remember correctly, you know a lot of healing with herbs/supplements/that sort of thing, right? Several of us have found that the SCD just isn't cutting it if we have yeast issues, and are now doing or transitioning to an anti-candida diet (no starches, dairy, grains, nuts, legumes, fruits, or sugars, and only low-carb veggies). There is a specific protocol on a yahoo group called candidasupport that I've been following. In addition to the diet, it recommends some supplements (calcium/magnesium or bone broth, B vitamin complex, vitamin C + bioflavonoids, vitamin E-non soy derived, liquid chlorophyll-1 T. 3x/day, and sea salt for trace minerals). It also recommends drinking 6 oz of water w/half a lemon in it 6x/day (3x with meals), anti-fungals (I do 5 cloves/day of raw garlic), and probiotics in the form of cabbage rejuvelac liquid and lacto-fermented foods. What do you think of this as a healing regimen?

It also recommends enemas, although I haven't motivated myself to do those and I'm not sure I will--coffee enemas for liver support, and anti-fungal and probiotic enemas to re-establish good colon flora. I have done a few vitamin C flushes (4 g. every 20 minutes to bowel tolerance), which are also recommended.

Oh, and a couple of things I'm doing that are not part of the protocol are herbal teas. One is for liver support and contains burdock root, dandelion root, sarsaparilla, yellow dock root, Oregon grape root, and echinacea. I'm doing 2 cups a day of that. I've read that it's best to do a few days on and a few days off with that so I was thinking about doing 4 days on and 3 days off. I'm also going to do a digestive tea blend that has fennel seed, fenugreek seed, ginger root, and spearmint, plus maybe alfalfa for the minerals. And I'm working my way up to vitamin C to near bowel tolerance every day--I'm at 20 grams/day so far.

So...what do you think?


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## Englishmummy (Sep 30, 2005)

Hi Everyone,

Spent most of the day whilst my little one was napping catching up on posts on this thread.

I have cracked nipples caused by candida (over a year now!)- my other signs are/were vaginal thrush, mild depression, mood swings, sinusitis, cystitis, glandular fever (as a teenager)...hmmm that is about it. I used to have digestion issues when I lived in England, but now I live in Japan and NEVER get THAT pain after meals- bloating etc.

I am on the candidasupport yahoo group too. I am transitioning on to the diet- but having a hard time with sleepiness, really sad feelings and nausea in the mornings (I still eat some carbs at breakfast to try to counter-act this).

I would love a second baby, but have made a vow that I will not do this until I am candida-free for the sake of breastfeeding my two little ones (my two year-old is CLW). I am not ready for a second yet- I am not in to the swing of this one...

So, my questions are- does anyone recommend enzymes/ candidase for candida? Do the people who know the candidasupport diet agree with all the supplements?

I am also having a hard time finding bones on this country! Anything else I could use?

Thanks for this thread!!
Emma xxx


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Englishmummy*
Hi Everyone,

Spent most of the day whilst my little one was napping catching up on posts on this thread.

I have cracked nipples caused by candida (over a year now!)- my other signs are/were vaginal thrush, mild depression, mood swings, sinusitis, cystitis, glandular fever (as a teenager)...hmmm that is about it. I used to have digestion issues when I lived in England, but now I live in Japan and NEVER get THAT pain after meals- bloating etc.

I am on the candidasupport yahoo group too. I am transitioning on to the diet- but having a hard time with sleepiness, really sad feelings and nausea in the mornings (I still eat some carbs at breakfast to try to counter-act this).

I would love a second baby, but have made a vow that I will not do this until I am candida-free for the sake of breastfeeding my two little ones (my two year-old is CLW). I am not ready for a second yet- I am not in to the swing of this one...

So, my questions are- does anyone recommend enzymes/ candidase for candida? Do the people who know the candidasupport diet agree with all the supplements?

I am also having a hard time finding bones on this country! Anything else I could use?

Thanks for this thread!!
Emma xxx

I'm doing the candidasupport diet and I do take enzymes with meals. I have some candidase that I got before I started the diet but I've only taken it a couple of times. I do raw garlic instead, but I'm going to take the candidase when we go visit DH's family in a couple of weeks so I don't kill them with garlic breath! I don't know how effective the candidase is compared to raw garlic, but the raw garlic is a whole lot cheaper so that's what I'm using.

I pretty much agree with the supplements, although I do bone broths instead of calcium/magnesium and I take a multi-mineral supplement in addition to sea salt w/meals because I don't like the electrolyte drink.

Could you do fish stock? I would think whole fish or fish carcasses would be easy to find in Japan.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie*
I got this info from an herbally minded group I belong to. I thought it was very interesting, and it's in the same vein as your post:

I also want to add that garlic will burn the skin, that's why Vaseline (as everyone cringes) is used. It is thick enough to protect the skin.

This is incredibly interesting. MPP, I'm seriously considering making a garlic paste for my tumor right now. I can't explain why, but it feels like it might be a good idea. Any thoughts on this? Has anyone in your group used it for cancer?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Garlic is perfect for all of those uses...we have used it for viruses and pnemonia. It's also great for ear infections and is very effective transdermally. We put in in olive oil-no vaseline here! IT's called the "wet sock treatment" for colds and works every single time.

Caedmyn-that's a great regimen. I would say to skip the enemas-not always a great idea until healing is well under way. When you are doing better, I'd go for a colonic instead. IT will do far more. I also recommend (in addition to liquid chlorophyll) Sun Chlorella. Lemon water-are you taking it at least a half an hour before meals on an empty stomach?

Annikate-we'd love to have you!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Lemon water-are you taking it at least a half an hour before meals on an empty stomach?


No...with meals. What's the purpose of taking it before?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *firefaery*
We put in in olive oil-no vaseline here! IT's called the "wet sock treatment" for colds and works every single time.
Tell me how you do this. Both dds have colds right now.

Ah, I won't be going up north 'til next year (L.I. & Catskill Mts.) but it sounds fun. Now while you northerners are freezing your butts off up there this winter and are dreaming of warmer weather you'll have to lmk.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Anyone know if bruising easily is a sign of some sort of deficiency? I've noticed that my legs bruise super easily and are always covered with bruises. Now granted I am a bit un-coordinated and always running into stuff, but I have bruises on the bottoms of my thighs were I lean forward against the edge of our wooden chairs while eating. It's only my legs that seem to bruise so easily, so I'm not as concerned as I would be if I suddenly had bruises appearing all over my body for no reason.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So at this point in your opinion is it worse to attack the yeast with more serious antifungals or worse to let the systemic candidia persist? I'm just at the end of my rope here. Parenting a 2 year old w/o family arround is hard enough but doing it while maintianing this diet and everything else we are doing is about to kill me. I yell constantly. I'm not a good mom right now. I just want to get away from dd, no wonder she wants to nurse all the time, it is the only demand she is sure I'll say yes to (most of the time). I'm totally burnt out and while I see some improvement in her following this diet I'm having to be constantly vigalent against slip ups. I'm the paranoid mom who won't let my dd eat or play with anything of anyone elses because of my fear that it will make her worse. I just want her to be healed. I just want me to be healed. Here we are nearly 6 months into it and I'm not sure how much longer I can keep this up.

I'm nervous about the danger to her liver but what about the danger of letting the candida persist???


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
So at this point in your opinion is it worse to attack the yeast with more serious antifungals or worse to let the systemic candidia persist? I'm just at the end of my rope here. Parenting a 2 year old w/o family arround is hard enough but doing it while maintianing this diet and everything else we are doing is about to kill me. I yell constantly. I'm not a good mom right now. I just want to get away from dd, no wonder she wants to nurse all the time, it is the only demand she is sure I'll say yes to (most of the time). I'm totally burnt out and while I see some improvement in her following this diet I'm having to be constantly vigalent against slip ups. I'm the paranoid mom who won't let my dd eat or play with anything of anyone elses because of my fear that it will make her worse. I just want her to be healed. I just want me to be healed. Here we are nearly 6 months into it and I'm not sure how much longer I can keep this up.

I'm nervous about the danger to her liver but what about the danger of letting the candida persist???










What anti-fungals are you doing now? Are you able to get much CO into her? What about enzymes?

Maybe you can think about adding some safer foods in (like no fruit or sugars, but some grains?) to make things easier, while still doing some sort of yeast-killer in between meals and large doses of vitamin C? Or will she drink herbal teas? There's a couple of recipes I've seen for anti-fungal herbal teas, although I don't know if they are child-safe or not.

Or would it help to just take a break from the diet for a few days so you can rest and regroup, as well as see what life would be like if you weren't following the diet?

I'm sorry, I wish I had more answers and help for you (for us all!).


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
So at this point in your opinion is it worse to attack the yeast with more serious antifungals or worse to let the systemic candidia persist? I'm just at the end of my rope here. Parenting a 2 year old w/o family arround is hard enough but doing it while maintianing this diet and everything else we are doing is about to kill me. I yell constantly. I'm not a good mom right now. I just want to get away from dd, no wonder she wants to nurse all the time, it is the only demand she is sure I'll say yes to (most of the time). I'm totally burnt out and while I see some improvement in her following this diet I'm having to be constantly vigalent against slip ups. I'm the paranoid mom who won't let my dd eat or play with anything of anyone elses because of my fear that it will make her worse. I just want her to be healed. I just want me to be healed. Here we are nearly 6 months into it and I'm not sure how much longer I can keep this up.

I'm nervous about the danger to her liver but what about the danger of letting the candida persist???









Patty,
I wish I could help but know nothing about yeast. Sometimes I think this thread should br split in 1/2: those healing the gut battling yeast and those htg w/o.

Totally right there w/ya mama. NO family here either. (500 and 1500 mles away, so it's ALL me. ) Dh is great but he doesn't have the worries I do about it all. I've stopped my yelling







for the most part; now I just cry whenever I get the chance. If I could just get some f-ing sleep, I might feel a little more human.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Patty,

I'm also wondering what you're using (if anything) and what you are considering. Are you on the strict candida diet? Is your daughter as well? Both for six months? What signs remain of systemic candida?

Amanda


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

*Patty*

I'm sorry you are having a hard time. It sure is tough without a network of family around. We don't have any family close by either. Is there a way for you to hook up with some MDC mammas? They are more likely to understand eating issues.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I have been giving Nolan Country Life Baby-dophilus for the past 4 days and this morning his poop was more solid than it has ever been! While I was inspecting it he kicked his foot into it







.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

caedmyn, a B-12 or iron deficiency can cause easy bruising.

Wet sock treatment: Immerse feet in very warm water. Dry and put a mixture of fresh garlic and olive oil on the bottom of the feet (you can wrap it in gauze if you like-I find it's easiest that way. Then just tape it there) cover with cold wet socks and put a wool sock over that just before bed. Take it off in the morning. Voila! I have never had to do more than two nights worth of treatment.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

oh, and the lemon water is taken on an empty stomach before you eat to alkalinize you system. yeast can't thrive in an alkalinized body which is also why you are doing liquid chlorophyll.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

To answer some questions.

We have been doing scd for nearly 6 months. We cut out all fruit and honey about 5 weeks ago. Before that it was limited fruit and honey from the begining of the diet.

The only enzymes I can get into dd are the chewable ones. Not sure if they are more help or hinderance right now.

I now can take zyme prime with meals w/o stomach issues and I take one candex at bedtime but other than that I get horrible stomach aches for hours from the enzymes so those are a no go for me.

I was putting a lot of stuff into a smoothie in the mornings but w/o fruit it is hard to get a decent tasting smoothie so I gave up on that.

We still eat carrots and sometimes peas (not a favorite). Haven't had any squash but spaghetti and zuccinni in months.

I'm considering cutting cheese but I'm just a bit overwhelmed by snacks if I do that. Right now they are usually carrot sticks and cheese (when we are away from home). She will always eat them. She will also always eat nuts but since she doesn't digest them I try to limit that.

DD's signs of systemic candidia is a persistant yeast rash on her bottom/vulva for 2 years, not sleeping well, hyper and agressive when given fruit, floating stool.

I also take nystatin and formula sf722 (castor bean derivative based)


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
To answer some questions.

We have been doing scd for nearly 6 months. We cut out all fruit and honey about 5 weeks ago. Before that it was limited fruit and honey from the begining of the diet.

The only enzymes I can get into dd are the chewable ones. Not sure if they are more help or hinderance right now.

I now can take zyme prime with meals w/o stomach issues and I take one candex at bedtime but other than that I get horrible stomach aches for hours from the enzymes so those are a no go for me.

I was putting a lot of stuff into a smoothie in the mornings but w/o fruit it is hard to get a decent tasting smoothie so I gave up on that.

We still eat carrots and sometimes peas (not a favorite). Haven't had any squash but spaghetti and zuccinni in months.

I'm considering cutting cheese but I'm just a bit overwhelmed by snacks if I do that. Right now they are usually carrot sticks and cheese (when we are away from home). She will always eat them. She will also always eat nuts but since she doesn't digest them I try to limit that.

DD's signs of systemic candidia is a persistant yeast rash on her bottom/vulva for 2 years, not sleeping well, hyper and agressive when given fruit, floating stool.

I also take nystatin and formula sf722 (castor bean derivative based)

Are you and DD taking probiotics? Have you seen changes since cutting out fruits and honey in the past 5 weeks? Are you preparing nuts ala NT? Can you and DD handle fermented veggies? I just tried some this week and my tummy seems to be ok. I understand about the cheese, I don't want to give it up either. Right now I am eating goat and sheeps milk cheese and it is $$$!

I have been going super slow with the enzymes. I started on V-gest and just got to where I take it at every meal. Yesterday I started Virastop, I am taking .5 capsule at 2 meals and will work my way up to 1 cap at each meal. Then I will start with the Candex (.5 capsule at a time.) This is the 'low and slow' method as described at enzymestuff.com.
http://www.enzymestuff.com/basicsdosing.htm


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Are you and DD taking probiotics? Have you seen changes since cutting out fruits and honey in the past 5 weeks? Are you preparing nuts ala NT? Can you and DD handle fermented veggies? I just tried some this week and my tummy seems to be ok. I understand about the cheese, I don't want to give it up either. Right now I am eating goat and sheeps milk cheese and it is $$$!

I have been going super slow with the enzymes. I started on V-gest and just got to where I take it at every meal. Yesterday I started Virastop, I am taking .5 capsule at 2 meals and will work my way up to 1 cap at each meal. Then I will start with the Candex (.5 capsule at a time.) This is the 'low and slow' method as described at enzymestuff.com.
http://www.enzymestuff.com/basicsdosing.htm

Lots of yogurt here. DD loves sourkraut and bubbies pickles. I take primal defense too.

She goes to sleep easier (if not quicker) w/o fruit and isn't as agressive. She has also gained over 1 lb and 1 in in the first three weeks of no fruit.

I did the low and slow method once. It worked great and then the enzymes started to bother my stomach. I have no idea what changed.

I do nt nuts when I have the time and energy.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Wet sock treatment: Immerse feet in very warm water. Dry and put a mixture of fresh garlic and olive oil on the bottom of the feet (you can wrap it in gauze if you like-I find it's easiest that way. Then just tape it there) cover with cold wet socks and put a wool sock over that just before bed. Take it off in the morning. Voila! I have never had to do more than two nights worth of treatment.

Where can I get wool socks to fit dd? If she's not better tomorrow I'm gonna try w/regular cotton socks.

Thanks ff. Hey, you gave me a great tip for mastitis a long time ago that works like a charm!








(Castor oil compresses.) LOVE them.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I had some made for ds, then I just shrank some for dd.









Glad you like them! They are also great for diarrhea, constipation and muscle aches. They are the best.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

caedmyn
Maybe you can think about adding some safer foods in (like no fruit or sugars said:


> See, this is where that anti-candida diet has me confused -- if fruit and sugars, even honey, are not allowed, despite their being monosaccharides and therefore easier to digest, why are grains allowed, which are starches and therefore harder to digest? They do turn to sugar, after all, and the sugars they turn into are disaccharies (I think -- or are they polysaccharides?). How is that better for yeast?
> 
> Oh, and the Kirkman aminos have sucralose (Splenda) in them, along with tapioca, and are thus SCD illegal.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

we've had another couple and their 9 month old infant staying with us while their new apartment is prepared for them. they lead organically healthy lifestyles - but not quite NT-ish.

ds brought home an evil nasty stomach virus (i'd say rotavirus but i'm not certain given teh apparent seasonality of it)... it totally wiped out his daycare class. vomiting and diarrhea. no warning either so i can't be mad at a parent sending a sick kid to daycare.

dh got it next (mildly). then our houseguests - all three of them - got it really bad. (i feel like an awful hostess but i warned them about daycare bugs...)

even with my apparently leaky gut, i didn't even get cramping (like i did in february with our first encounter with rotavirus) - just a touch of queasiness the whole time ds was vomiting on me (but then who wouldn't be queasy being a human chux pad?)

think my kefir is doing some good after all?


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Been busy catching up on this thread after being away on vacation. *Firefaery*, glad to see you are back and congrats on the new babe. Can you post how to do a castor oil compress? I feel that I read it before, but can't remember.

I need to pick your brains a bit. While I was away, I was pretty much totally SCD legal. I had just gotten my enzyme order, this time in powder form. My issues were very minimal, as in little constipation (some, but then we all were a bit at first which I think is usual for traveling), no gas, _very little bloating_ (which seems to be my biggest issue). We come back home and I eat a meal, eating the same food as while away -- leftovers -- and I am pretty much immediately hugely bloated. In fact, my stomach has been worse than ever since we are back. WTH? Does this mean this is largely stress induced? And if so, how do I heal that?

As for depression, mine seems worse than it has been and I recently upped my dose of Zoloft with happy results. It is not something I like to do, but I like the awful mindset of depression much less.

I have a rec for a homeopath which I am considering and ditching or at least reducing the acupuncture, since that isn't helping so much. I still wonder if I need to get a scope since I have this weird squishy, noisy area of my gut.

I fear I might lose a very dear friend due in part to her impression of my "food obsession", but really what else can I do?

One last question: while I was happily eating mounds of vegetables prior to my stomach issues onset, I find now that I am eating copious amounts of meat, eggs, yogurt and cheese that I have very little appetite for vegetables, except for tomatoes. What could that mean?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Moonshine-that happened to me as well. I ate a very plant based diet and when I introduced all these animal foods my body went nuts. I didn't want to look at anything green and wanted meat all day every day. It passed. I just assumed that my body was catching up on things it needed. It does that sometimes-especially if you are eating really well and not getting false cravings.

Castor oil packs-couldn't be easier. Heat a washcloth soaked in castor oil in the microwave till it's nice and warm (but not too hot) apply to affected area. If I have a plugged duct, for instance, I put it in my bra. IF a baby isn't pooping, put it on their belly under a onesie. You can leave it as long as you want. With a plugged duct I like to reheat it every hour or so.

I'm sorry to hear that your attempt to heal your family is causing rifts. Unfortunatly it does happen. People really get very uncomfortable when they are forced to look at problems they don't want to. Perhaps you are stirring something up for this friend and she isn't ready for healing. Hugs in any case. It's hard.

You are doing exactly what you need to be doing. In the long run when you fix this I'm sure you will be off your meds. For now you need to take care of yourself so you can take care of your family. You aren't any good to them if you are living in despair and are non-functional. Your time will come, don't be frustrated. Many of us walked that same path. We all understand. Keep up the great work mama!

Oh and I have some thoughts about the bloating-I'll post later. I want to check something out first.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
See, this is where that anti-candida diet has me confused -- if fruit and sugars, even honey, are not allowed, despite their being monosaccharides and therefore easier to digest, why are grains allowed, which are starches and therefore harder to digest? They do turn to sugar, after all, and the sugars they turn into are disaccharies (I think -- or are they polysaccharides?). How is that better for yeast?

Oh, and the Kirkman aminos have sucralose (Splenda) in them, along with tapioca, and are thus SCD illegal.

Grains aren't allowed, at least not on the version I'm doing. I really don't know how grains compare to fruits/sugars as far as feeding yeast, I'm just speculating that they might have less of an impact on yeast, and hence be better if you have to add some foods to your diet.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

FF, are you back off of animal products?

Oh, the other thing is that I am holding on to weight. Unlike many of you how have problems keeping the weight on, I would say I have the opposite. I am now 5-8 lbs heavier than my lowest some months ago. Combine that with the bloating, and I have nothing that fits right.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Don't know if this helps or not...monosaccharides are allowed because they are absorbed very quickly and don't stick around long enough for the yeast to feed. Plysaccharides and disaccharides need to sit and be broken down into monosaccharides and in the sitting the yeast gets to eat. Everything ultimately ends up as sugar, it's a matter of how long things sit in the gut. You don't want any sugars just sitting around. Does that help at all?

Moonshine, I am. Not for long though, it seems. I felt like I was healed enough to go back at least temporarily, and I feel great! But this babe has food allergies which tells me I'm not as healed as I thought. So I guess I'm going back-which is fine. I don't have a problem with eating meat as long as it's grass fed. I just really wanted to go 100% raw for the summer to cleanse. If my gut still has enough damage for him to be reacting to food, I can be pretty sure (tipping my hat to Jane here) I'm not making conversions as I should or getting all of the nutrients that I need to be. I'm going to start introducing meat. Guess I'll just live with the 90-95% live food! Since I am (and have been) raw since he was born for the most part I need to anyway. I have to take out nuts and coconut oil because I can't imagine what else I'm doing is causing this. Could be anything, but that seems more likely than kale, sprouts or wheatgrass, you know? If I lose my main sources of protein and fat I have to do meat. A month of raw was better than nothing!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Is the bloating uncomfortable feeling in your stomach? You say that is where it's worse. Is it truly there or more in the intestinal area?


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Somebody posted this a few days ago, but I'm not finding it with the search function, so sorry for the repetition (though I don't recall seeing an answer yet). I got my BTVC book yesterday, and read through it (quickly) last night. I was reading while holding a not happy baby, so maybe I missed it, but in it, Elaine says the only food you have to introduce at a specific time is the yogurt, but then I didn't see when that specific time is (other than that you can use it in the intro diet to moisten the dccc). Did I miss this? I've also looked on the website and am not finding it.

Thanks!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Well, when I say stomach I really mean abdominal area. Although when it is really bad, it does extend to my stomach. It starts in my lower intestinal area, i.e. where my pants most commonly fit. I know that I have "something" inflammation or ?? at the place where my large intestine starts. The tenderness is not as bad as it once was on palpation, but when I massage the area, I get a creaky, squishy sound, which has indeed gotten worse. It is as if I am moving a bunch of mostly liquid around. It is loud enough for someone next to me to hear. (as in my DH, who then looks at me in horror)

That said, when it is quite bad, my whole abdominal area is bloated. I do not typically have the uncomfortable bloated feeling internally, but it is more that I am aware of this big mass in my middle. Like it gets in the way when I am bending over. A few days ago I was doing yoga and during downward dog, I could feel my intestines, (lg -- @ lower right abdomen) moving or bulding or some other horrid thing. It wasn't painful, but a very strange sensation.

Typically, my pattern is that by evening, I am quite bloated. I then am able to poop in the morning and then if it is a good day, my stomach looks mostly normal, as in not distended. This morning I knew things were worse, as my lower abdomen was still distended.

I am not really eating anything new. A couple of weeks ago, things had improved, but now after a really good week on vacation, things are quite bad again. I do theorize that this is a particularlly bad time of year for me emtionally, as I was in a similar dark place last year at this time, w/o the help of meds. (nor this stomach problem)

My friend who is so crictical of my "nutrional obsessions" thinks that doing Eat to Live is what messed up my gut. I am not sure that I am ready to say that because I have always had some digestive issues that I chalked up to being just the way I am. But like I said, my interest in eating vegetables is next to nothing.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

On a regular day, I eat:

omlette with raw milk cheese
raw milk yogurt
dccc
fresh fruit (uncooked)
CO
CLO
ground beef
avocado
tomatoes (fresh)
cooked vegetables (usu. mushrooms, zucc, sometimes greens)
one small cup black coffee
raw nuts (my "treat")
I will start bone broths again once it isn't so warm

200 mg selenium
~ 3 tsp sodium ascorbate
30 mg zinc w copper
had been taking mg, but am currently out
B complex sublingual
zyme prime
no fenol
wobenzyme

Am considering starting water kefir drinks, as I am not doing so great w/o, maybe they can help.

I have to say that I think what I am eating as extremely limited, but other than eating more of the types of foods above, I don't really feel like eating anything else.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Don't know if this helps or not...monosaccharides are allowed because they are absorbed very quickly and don't stick around long enough for the yeast to feed. Plysaccharides and disaccharides need to sit and be broken down into monosaccharides and in the sitting the yeast gets to eat. Everything ultimately ends up as sugar, it's a matter of how long things sit in the gut. You don't want any sugars just sitting around. Does that help at all?


The only problem with this, at least as far as it applies to the SCD, is that it doesn't seem to hold true for most people with yeast issues (ie the SCD doesn't help significantly). This seems to hold pretty true on this board over the last couple of months, although I don't know how many of the people who have seen significant results with the SCD have had yeast problems--but the ones who haven't seen results do have yeast problems.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

That's true-it's just the theory. It worked like a charm for me, but not so much for others...then again I went above and beyond with supplements.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

What did you do with suppliments again??? I'm feeling very frustrated here in limbo land.

I also have a bad sore throat today and am wondering if anyone has any wonder cures???


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I just returned from bringing dd to a new classical homeopath.

WOW!

First, a couple of questions: She believes dd has yeast issues. I do too & her CDSA results should be back Monday.

She suggested *I* go on an anti-candida diet since she's still b'feeding. Does this make sense? Also, she called it fungus. Is yeast a fungus?









And, she said to give dd grains but NO fermented foods.









Now, to be fair, I'm only posting the things that made me







. Our 2 hour appt. was VERY VERY interesting & she pegged SO many things that I'll post about later.

Since I know nothing about candida, I'm confused. What do you mamas think?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

moonshine,
I used to be able to make those noises by pushing on my stomach too. (It didn't hurt though.) You're obviously not digesting something properly. I'd suggest you get back on the enzymes asap.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
What did you do with suppliments again??? I'm feeling very frustrated here in limbo land.

We really need a forum for these discussions because it's hard to keep up with everybody. Patty -- you mentioned that the diet seems to be effective but that you are exhausted by it. You're having problems dealing with life it sounds like. Have you considered trying an amino acid blend? If you can use it to get through tough spots so that you have the energy to stay on the diet, that might be a good approach. Have you considered eating liver regularly? I don't like liver at all but I've eaten about 3 oz 3x/week in slumps and have gotten good energy.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

moonshine -- have you had a thyroid test recently?


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
She suggested *I* go on an anti-candida diet since she's still b'feeding. Does this make sense? Also, she called it fungus. Is yeast a fungus?









And, she said to give dd grains but NO fermented foods.









She may think you have some yeast issues too. And yes, it's fungal. The no fermented foods is part of the strict anti-candida diet, but I did eat my own yogurt when I did the diet. I did not consume any commercial fermented food. The strict diet also excludes all grains but some people will add millet and quinoa.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
She may think you have some yeast issues too. And yes, it's fungal. The no fermented foods is part of the strict anti-candida diet, but I did eat my own yogurt when I did the diet. I did not consume any commercial fermented food. The strict diet also excludes all grains but some people will add millet and quinoa.

Ok, that makes sense. If I don't have any yeast issues, would it still be better for me to do the anti-candida diet too or doesn't it really make a difference?

I've never had a yeast problem and the spit test was negative.

I'm starting to chelate dd w/some stuff she gave me and I know this kicks up yeast so of course I want to do what's best for dd BUT if it won't really matter then I want to keep having my fruit yk?


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
We really need a forum for these discussions because it's hard to keep up with everybody.

Yes! Month after month this thread is 30+ pages.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
moonshine,
I used to be able to make those noises by pushing on my stomach too. (It didn't hurt though.) You're obviously not digesting something properly. I'd suggest you get back on the enzymes asap.

It is good to know that someone else knows what I am talking about. Btw, I am back on the enzymes, powder form this time. I think I will up the amount I am taking.

Thyroid -- yes, I believe that I just had it checked. Will check the lab reports again. I know I had it checked in the past when I was having hormonal issues and it was normal.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Ok, that makes sense. If I don't have any yeast issues, would it still be better for me to do the anti-candida diet too or doesn't it really make a difference?

I have no idea. It won't hurt, but it will not be pleasant.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
She may think you have some yeast issues too. And yes, it's fungal. The no fermented foods is part of the strict anti-candida diet, but I did eat my own yogurt when I did the diet. I did not consume any commercial fermented food. The strict diet also excludes all grains but some people will add millet and quinoa.

I wonder if when they say no fermented foods they mean lacto-fermented homemade foods, or just the fake stuff you get in the supermarket?

Annikate--I don't know how/if the sugars and stuff go through BM, so you might have to the anti-candida diet, too.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)




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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I wonder if when they say no fermented foods they mean lacto-fermented homemade foods, or just the fake stuff you get in the supermarket?

Annikate--I don't know how/if the sugars and stuff go through BM, so you might have to the anti-candida diet, too.

I had mild yeast issues infrequently that seem to be controlled by eating homemade kefir and homemade wild sauerkraut, and avoiding fake fermented ketchup, mustard, etc. i generally just avoid anything with sugar, and keep the fruits to 1-2 servings per day, often paired with kefir. soaking grains (rice usually) and really keeping any other grains to 1-2 servings per week. since doing this change, i've had no problems with yeast except when i overdo the grains. i had sorta done an anticandida diet for a few weeks before i re-introduced cultured dairy into my diet.

coffee is seen to increase gut permeability to sucrose (dont' have the citation handy at the moment) so i've finally managed to get myself unaddicted and only have coffee 2-3 times per week instead of a regular morning cup.

compared to what i've read of SCD, going fully anticandida would be easier for me personally.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
We really need a forum for these discussions because it's hard to keep up with everybody. Patty -- you mentioned that the diet seems to be effective but that you are exhausted by it. You're having problems dealing with life it sounds like. Have you considered trying an amino acid blend? If you can use it to get through tough spots so that you have the energy to stay on the diet, that might be a good approach. Have you considered eating liver regularly? I don't like liver at all but I've eaten about 3 oz 3x/week in slumps and have gotten good energy.

Yes the diet is helping us. I sometimes lose that perspective cause I'm just so overwhelmed by it all and dying from cravings for some of the nice fresh fruit I see at the farmers market every week. I want to be better yesterday and hate how long this is taking. I knew going into it that it wasn't a quick fix but I have hit the 6 month slump I think and need some help getting motivated to keep this up for the long haul.

I hadn't considered the amino acids but perhaps that would help.

I do think I felt so overwhelmed yesterday because I was coming down with this sore throat even though I didn't know it.

I really hate liver and although I have some in the freezer haven't been able to bring myself to cook it and eat it.







: I have done the liver coctail and that didn't really seem to make a difference but I only ate it a few times.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
coffee is seen to increase gut permeability to sucrose (dont' have the citation handy at the moment) so i've finally managed to get myself unaddicted and only have coffee 2-3 times per week instead of a regular morning cup.

Okay, so really make me









This is THE ONE thing I've allowed myself. 1/2 decaf, 1/2 regular but still . . . the thought of no coffee in the a.m. . . .
well, I don't think I could handle these 2 girls without it.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Anti-candida diet:
Here is my 2 cents:

I think that if you have systemic candida, it doesn't just feed on sugar that goes down and sits around the gut but also glucose in the blood. That's why, I guess, we can't handle fruits and honey. Some candida diets allow certain grains, because they have a relatively low glycemic index and are gluten-free but these folks still believe fiber is your friend. IMO no grain is safe for candida.
But it's sooooooooooo hard. I just can't go without having some NT oatmeal every once in a while. It's so boring to eat eggs for breakfast every single day.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Help, please. My DD (3-y-o) has a tummy ache every single time she eats or drinks something (except water). I tried enzymes, no enzymes, it doesn't matter. She says her tummy hurts. Every time she eats something. First I thought maybe the enzymes give her a tummy ache which would be strange because she has been on enzymes for a while with no problem. So I tried not giving her enzymes, she still has a tummy ache after she starts eating. And then I thought, maybe the orange juice is the culprit, sometimes I put the enzymes in diluted OJ sometimes in her food. So next time I gave no OJ just food, still has tummy ache. No matter what I change, she has a tummy ache. Her poop looks OK, kind of multicolored but firm and sinks.
Why does her tummy hurt?


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Another OT question:
I have seen Carlson's A&D recommended here. Is anybody bothered by the soy in it? I have not found any fish oil based A and/or D without soy


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Hi ladies,
Peeking back in to offer a bottle of GOL Omega Zymes for anyone who wants to pay shipping on them (probably about $6). I bought a brand new bottle right before I decided to switch to the Houston's, so it's full, though it's been opened but well-cared for. In a weird coincidence of bad planning, I actually think it's more than full because I'd forgotten them while on vacation, bought a new bottle, and combined the two bottles







: PM me if you're interested. I know they aren't SCD legal, but I thought I remembered some of you take them with no ill-effects?

FF - Congratulations on the new baby!


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

You won't believe it, but they're gone already. Glad someone could use them!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

annikate -







sorry. when I told my ND, he OBSESSED about it for hours afterwards (my dh had an appt later in the day after I told him, and he was still musing about it).

if it cheers you up, in an apparently healthy person, the gut becomes significantly less permeable to sucrose 48 hours after coffee consumption. the result of the paper was that the authors were going to recommend to labs to recommend a 48 hours fast (from coffee) before undertaking the various tests (esp. those using sucrose) for leaky gut.

that's why i space out my cups over the week and made dark organic chocolate my new vice.

i'm too sensitive to the caffeine in tea, so i can't even consider drinking black tea as a replacement. but it's weird (except for this past Monday), i really don't have much of a desire to have coffee especially since i'm not doing dairy (my coffee preference includes cream to which i am definitely IgG allergic - and no fixes for leaky gut seem to be helping that).


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Amanda, I have read time and again that thyroid tests are ineffective unless you are way off. Have you found this as well? One of the practitioners I work with is dealing with thyroid stuff alot now. IT's pretty interesting. There's a test you can take which is very effective, but it's not the standard panel. One of the things that he is having people do who have thyroid problems is use Celtic Sea Salt-1/2 a tsp a day. In the testing it looks as though it's acting as an adaptogen. People who are hyper and hypo are both seeing a huge change in levels and feeling a big difference. Apparently the problem in most people is that they are bromine toxic. IT is found in refined flours and chocolate and many other things. Bromine replaces iodine in the body which will alter thyroid function. If you can get more iodine into your body it seems like this will reverse the damage. I'm doing the test right now and I'll let you know how my levels change. In the mean time I notice that I'm not nearly as cranky on the sea salt! Sorry-totally OT!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Definitely true, firefaery. On my list for the next month is to research the different tests because I've run across a handful of alternatives. I need to include an inset on this in my project. Definitely report back on your progress. Your "levels" -- do you mean a thyroid panel of some sort?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
coffee is seen to increase gut permeability to sucrose (dont' have the citation handy at the moment) so i've finally managed to get myself unaddicted and only have coffee 2-3 times per week instead of a regular morning cup.

Bargaining now:
I wonder, is this coffee or all caffeine? I'm thinking I could do tea instead.

ETA: I see you already answered this for yourself! OH, and I've been eating dark organic chocolate too! How can I give this up too? Oh boy.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Amanda, I have read time and again that thyroid tests are ineffective unless you are way off. Have you found this as well? One of the practitioners I work with is dealing with thyroid stuff alot now. IT's pretty interesting. There's a test you can take which is very effective, but it's not the standard panel. One of the things that he is having people do who have thyroid problems is use Celtic Sea Salt-1/2 a tsp a day. In the testing it looks as though it's acting as an adaptogen. People who are hyper and hypo are both seeing a huge change in levels and feeling a big difference. Apparently the problem in most people is that they are bromine toxic. IT is found in refined flours and chocolate and many other things. Bromine replaces iodine in the body which will alter thyroid function. If you can get more iodine into your body it seems like this will reverse the damage. I'm doing the test right now and I'll let you know how my levels change. In the mean time I notice that I'm not nearly as cranky on the sea salt! Sorry-totally OT!

This is so interesting. DH has hypo. Like I need another project . . . .


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Bargaining now:
I wonder, is this coffee or all caffeine? I'm thinking I could do tea instead.

ETA: I see you already answered this for yourself! OH, and I've been eating dark organic chocolate too! How can I give this up too? Oh boy.

Is it the caffeine or the taste of coffe that you want? I've read that roasted dandelion root tea tastes similar to coffee--a book I read suggested gradually mixing more and more in with coffee to wean yourself off coffee. If it's the caffeine, what about trying an energizing herbal tea blend in the mornings?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Thyroid--the sea salt thing is very interesting. My mom has hypothyroidism. I've suggested a few things to her that I've read may help (selenium supplements, CO, eliminating anything that contains soy), but I will have to suggest the sea salt to her, too. Anyone have any more info on help for thyroid problems, or links to info about it?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

The Carlson's A and D pills we've used in past do not have soy... they are the natural ones.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Hi ladies,
Peeking back in to offer a bottle of GOL Omega Zymes for anyone who wants to pay shipping on them (probably about $6). I bought a brand new bottle right before I decided to switch to the Houston's, so it's full, though it's been opened but well-cared for. In a weird coincidence of bad planning, I actually think it's more than full because I'd forgotten them while on vacation, bought a new bottle, and combined the two bottles







: PM me if you're interested. I know they aren't SCD legal, but I thought I remembered some of you take them with no ill-effects?

FF - Congratulations on the new baby!









Yes!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Is it the caffeine or the taste of coffe that you want? I've read that roasted dandelion root tea tastes similar to coffee--a book I read suggested gradually mixing more and more in with coffee to wean yourself off coffee. If it's the caffeine, what about trying an energizing herbal tea blend in the mornings?

caffeine! coffee! Or *at least* black tea or Earl Grey!

caedmyn. I could try that (and probably will) but right now every cell in my body is crying for caffeine! I never ever drink it other than 1-2 c. in the a.m. but I even want some NOW!

Do I sound like the addict I am or what!?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
You won't believe it, but they're gone already. Glad someone could use them!

Oh no, I was too late..........


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Bargaining now:
I wonder, is this coffee or all caffeine? I'm thinking I could do tea instead.

ETA: I see you already answered this for yourself! OH, and I've been eating dark organic chocolate too! How can I give this up too? Oh boy.

when i said i was sensitive to the caffeine in tea, i didn't mean i was gut sensitive







i just get jumpy and jittery in a way that i don't with coffee. otherwise, i'd replace my coffee with black tea in a heartbeat


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Is it the caffeine or the taste of coffe that you want? I've read that roasted dandelion root tea tastes similar to coffee--a book I read suggested gradually mixing more and more in with coffee to wean yourself off coffee. If it's the caffeine, what about trying an energizing herbal tea blend in the mornings?

HAHA. you're funny. our morning routine just doesn't have time for tea (let alone coffee). it takes us 1.5 hours to get up and out the door in the morning - and that's when we're moving along with full cooperation from ds.

i'm content without caffeine in general at this point, otherwise i just get a small cup of half decaf (organic, fair-trade, of course) when i'm at work. sometimes i remember to make the tea i have sitting on my desk. we have a kick-butt kettle in the conference room, all the way on the other side of the office, but i ALWAYS forget about it once i fill it up and turn it on. i would actually have to sit and wait for the water to boil in order to remember. the afternoon is even worse - i have a jar of magnesium citrate in eyesight on my desk that i also never manage to prepare. when we design our new space, i think i'll ask for a small sink in my office.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*









The Carlson's A and D pills we've used in past do not have soy... they are the natural ones.

Carlson Laboratories
A & D 10 000 Iu/400 Iu
300 Softgels
Serving Size: 1

Supplement Facts
Serving Size 1
Servings Per Container 300 Softgels

Amount Per
Serving % Daily
Value

Vitamin A 10000 IU 200%

Vitamin D3 400 IU 100%

* Daily value not established

Directions:
Take one soft gel daily, at mealtime.

Other Ingredients:
Soybean oil, gelatin, glycerin, water.

Does Not Contain:
Preservatives, milk, artificial colors, yeast, sugar, salt, corn, wheat.

Is this not the one from fish oil?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Very interesting about the sea salt for thyroid. I'm hypothyroid and on armor. I recently switched to just the celtic sea salt (but it will take some time to use up our other.)

Any advice on how to get the 1/2 tsp? I put it on everything I eat but I don't think it totals 1/2 tsp most days. I'm not a big salt fan.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
cI never ever drink it other than 1-2 c. in the a.m. but I even want some NOW!

i hear ya totally.... the other day i went to target (ALL BY MYSELF!) when, lo and behold, there's a starbucks (which i haven't visited in eons). i heard a coffee with cream and sugar calling me - but i was strong and only got the coffee (i remembered what the ice cream did a few weeks ago and did not want to go there). shoulda kept my mouth shut though - dh gave me no end of grief about coffee, the leaky gut, saving money, blah blah blah.

isn't it funny that caffeine is one of the few (if not the only) mind/mood-altering drugs that isn't regulated by the FDA?


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

OMG, you guys are always so chatty!

Re: Eliminating raw, cultured vegetables (fermented vegetables):
Lots of practitioners used to recommend that those with yeast eliminate all fermented foods because it was thought to feed the yeast. This theory has been discredited, though, particularly since yeast is clearly a beast that thrives in an imbalanced environment. It is crucial to restore beneficial bacteria and the BEST way to do that is via food, namely fermented veggies. I used to do lacto-fermented but have since switched to doing it only with salt and water.

Re: Carlson's and Soy:
Yes, there has been lots of chatter about this subject with the WAPF folks for more than a year. Blue Ice is one of the best around and the price isn't too bad. It does not contain soy and is considered High Vitamin.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Very interesting about the sea salt for thyroid. I'm hypothyroid and on armor. I recently switched to just the celtic sea salt (but it will take some time to use up our other.)

Any advice on how to get the 1/2 tsp? I put it on everything I eat but I don't think it totals 1/2 tsp most days. I'm not a big salt fan.

You could just put some in a capsule. I'm the opposite--I love salt and probably eat close to 1 1/2 tsp/day (of course all the meat and eggs on this diet helps, too--I didn't eat nearly so much salt on the SCD).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

*Non-dairy EBF baby probiotic* I finally found one! Solaray brand...


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

BTW my yogurt made with the megaflora came out really good! The flavor is very much like sour cream and the consistency is very, very nice, at least at the top of the jar. I haven't tried the one I made with both megaflora and yogurmet. I'll do that one next. I was very impressed though and I think this may be my new starter. (unless someone knows a good reason to avoid one of the things in it.)

Lactobacillus rhamnosus
Bifidobacterium Bifidum
Lactobacillus acidophilus
Bifidobacterium infantis
Bifidobacterium longum
Streptococcus thermophilus
Lactobacillus plantarum
Lactobacillus salivarius
Lactobacillus reuteri
Lactobacillus casei
Lactobacillus Bulgaricus
Lactobacillus acidophilus DDS-1
Lactobacillus sporogenes
Bacillus lactis


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Amanda, iodine levels, actually. We are running the standard thyroid panels as well to cross reference. Of the first 120 tests run in this study everyone he thought would be iodine deficient was and three that he ran as "controls" (people with no symptoms) weren't. Actually this test showed thyroid cancer in people who had not been diagnosed, so the results seem eerily accurate. To date he has tested almost 300 people he suspected, and was right on every one. So clearly there's validity here.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Oh and for the sore throat thing...gargle with hypericum tincture, spray with colloidal silver-this will kill the germies as well. You can do a castor oil pack on your throat. Also throat coat tea is amazing stuff.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

is it a blood panel or a urine challenge test or something else?


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

and just out of curiosity firefaery, did you ever do one of those home iodine tests where you put iodine on your stomach?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
He poops only once a week-is this normal?

Not at all , this would encourage bacterial growth.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Not at all , this would encourage bacterial growth.

Kiernen is finally up to 2x a week, which I imagine isn't much better, but pleases me greatly because he's doing it all on his own. I just got him the infant probiotic from Naten, hopefully it will help.

*Has anyone done the metabolic typing diet for gut healing?* I fear SCD isn't really working for me.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Jane,
How do you kill the Proteus if your DS can't handle high proteases?

Also, I have an OT question. Is it possible to heal without removing amalgam fillings? It's just not a possibility at this point, financially. And my DH would never let me have them removed after he payed so much money to have them put in (before I knew anything about mercury toxicity and before I got sick)
I think mercury might be the reason why the diet and supplements are not helping as much as they should and my immune s. is still depressed. I read that chelation is dangerous while you have them so I can't really do much just hope that the proper diet will help to reduce the load.


RE: Proteus

Good question... we did a bit of goldenseal and uva ursi that stool test showed sensitivities too. But didn't see any results really. Biocidin helped but I didn't want him to be on it long term. The changes we noticed stopped when he stopped his 10 day round. I might go back to it but I feel like I really need help and advice and other testing to get us through it. And now why I'm just loading him up on the probiotics. I hope that the L. Reuteri will continue to help and maybe will shift his gut in the long term along with diet?

RE: amalgams

I don't know. There is evidence on various forums that the answer is no. It's so hard to say. That is why I finally bit the bullet, worked my butt off for the extra $ and did it last year cause I wasn't getting any younger. How many do you have? Would you consider doing a hair test?

You CANNOT chelate with filings in as they will pull the mercury right out of them and deposit more into your body and brain.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Anyone know if bruising easily is a sign of some sort of deficiency? I've noticed that my legs bruise super easily and are always covered with bruises.

I thought this was a vitamin K issue? And K is made from our gut flora acting on green leafy veggies right?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

EBG, the single ones don't have soybean oil, just single "natural" A & D. But now we use high vit. CLO.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Amanda, I have read time and again that thyroid tests are ineffective unless you are way off. Have you found this as well? One of the practitioners I work with is dealing with thyroid stuff alot now. IT's pretty interesting. There's a test you can take which is very effective, but it's not the standard panel. One of the things that he is having people do who have thyroid problems is use Celtic Sea Salt-1/2 a tsp a day. In the testing it looks as though it's acting as an adaptogen. People who are hyper and hypo are both seeing a huge change in levels and feeling a big difference. Apparently the problem in most people is that they are bromine toxic. IT is found in refined flours and chocolate and many other things. Bromine replaces iodine in the body which will alter thyroid function. If you can get more iodine into your body it seems like this will reverse the damage. I'm doing the test right now and I'll let you know how my levels change. In the mean time I notice that I'm not nearly as cranky on the sea salt! Sorry-totally OT!

This is super interesting! And I love any excuse to eat more sea salt...


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Patty, one thing is, bifidus bacteria are not SCD legal. Not sure if that matters to you, though.

EBG, your DD's tummy ache could be any number of things, depending on where it is. Is there a way to tell where it hurts -- by having her point to it?


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I thought this was a vitamin K issue? And K is made from our gut flora acting on green leafy veggies right?

I thought it was a sign of celiac and also Bee's candida symptoms list has easy bruising, too. Well sometimes it seems that everything under the sun is candida related, haha.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
RE: Proteus

Good question... we did a bit of goldenseal and uva ursi that stool test showed sensitivities too. But didn't see any results really. Biocidin helped but I didn't want him to be on it long term. The changes we noticed stopped when he stopped his 10 day round. I might go back to it but I feel like I really need help and advice and other testing to get us through it. And now why I'm just loading him up on the probiotics. I hope that the L. Reuteri will continue to help and maybe will shift his gut in the long term along with diet?

RE: amalgams

I don't know. There is evidence on various forums that the answer is no. It's so hard to say. That is why I finally bit the bullet, worked my butt off for the extra $ and did it last year cause I wasn't getting any younger. How many do you have? Would you consider doing a hair test?

You CANNOT chelate with filings in as they will pull the mercury right out of them and deposit more into your body and brain.

I have five teeth with amalgams and one of them has two, I think. Most of them I got a few years ago. And I had 3 pregnancies with a bad diet, so no wonder I'm sick. I can't do anything about the amalgams, as I said DH would never let me have them removed and I don't have my own money so I can't save up for the procedures. I guess I have to live with it and do the best I can with nutrition.
Does selenium count as a chelator? I don't want to have to cut back.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

EBG, your DD's tummy ache could be any number of things, depending on where it is. Is there a way to tell where it hurts -- by having her point to it?[/QUOTE]

Her tummy is not hurting this morning, she is eating NT oatmeal with butter, honey and enzymes. Next time I'll ask her where it hurts.
It's usually short lived, and starts right after she starts eating.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Jane,
Thanks for the info on the A&D.
I have another question. Does the Thropps Ultra-Zyme have DPP-IV? I think it just said proteases...Is it working well? We've been using Digest Gold and it's been good, but pricey. I want to switch to Thropps.
Or Omega Zyme. But Thropps is still cheaper and comparable to DG in strength.
Shanna, was Omega Zyme not working well that you got rid of it?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Anyone want to share their anti-candida diet ideas here?

I'd love some ideas.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm a heavy bruiser, and from my reading, I was looking at Vit K, iron, Vit C or Vit B12. I just had blood work done, so I knew my B12 and iron were great. I started liq chlorophyll w/no results. I finally realized that I have adrenal fatigue which tied in all my other weird symptoms.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
I'm a heavy bruiser, and from my reading, I was looking at Vit K, iron, Vit C or Vit B12. I just had blood work done, so I knew my B12 and iron were great. I started liq chlorophyll w/no results. I finally realized that I have adrenal fatigue which tied in all my other weird symptoms.

What are the symptoms of adrenal fatigue? I really can't imagine I have an iron deficiency as I eat at least 1/2 a pound of red meat a day. I've started mega doses of vitamin C so if that's the problem it should take care of it. Does liquid chlorophyll contain vitamin K? I've been taking that for a while, too, so it's probably not a vitamin K deficiency.

B6 is the vitamin that's supposed to produce dream recall, right? How much does the amount of sleep I get in a stretch affect dream recall? I very rarely get 3 hours of sleep in a stretch because of DD's night wakings. I started taking a B complex vitamin a month or so ago and haven't noticed any difference in dream recall, but I'm not sure if it means I need to supplement B6 separately, or if I just won't have much dream recall until I can sleep better.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
What are the symptoms of adrenal fatigue? I really can't imagine I have an iron deficiency as I eat at least 1/2 a pound of red meat a day. I've started mega doses of vitamin C so if that's the problem it should take care of it. Does liquid chlorophyll contain vitamin K? I've been taking that for a while, too, so it's probably not a vitamin K deficiency.

B6 is the vitamin that's supposed to produce dream recall, right? How much does the amount of sleep I get in a stretch affect dream recall? I very rarely get 3 hours of sleep in a stretch because of DD's night wakings. I started taking a B complex vitamin a month or so ago and haven't noticed any difference in dream recall, but I'm not sure if it means I need to supplement B6 separately, or if I just won't have much dream recall until I can sleep better.

On the b-6 issue, I wake frequently as well. That actually should make it easier for you to recall your dreams. I need to take at least 150 mg of b-6 daily to recall my dreams. I just upped it to 200 mg daily because I realized it was helping with nipple soreness in the 2ww and I wouldn't mind it disappearing completely. (this month is particularly bad and I haven't even ovulated yet!)


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

How much B6 is in your B complex, caedmyn?

Maybe someone knows more about dreaming. I wonder how long it _does_ take to get into a dream sleep.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
How much B6 is in your B complex, caedmyn?

Maybe someone knows more about dreaming. I wonder how long it _does_ take to get into a dream sleep.

100 mg


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Hmm, I am only taking 10 mg B6. I have noticed that dream recall has improved. I used to almost never remember my dreams. Now it is frequent, although it could be more. This morning I was dreaming about Johnny Depp.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

No-I think you were just channeling me and having MY dream







:


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Oh my, I am obsessed with him lately. Now he is in my dreams!!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Hey FF, did you say you might have more thoughts on the bloating? I am really in a bad way, still, and would love some additional insight.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

I need some toddler poop help here!

DS is 3 and has tons of allergies. When he eats allergens, he often gets constipation. He takes lots of probiotics, etc, so we're doing a lot to help his gut (starting raw milk next week).

He had a bout of bad constipation due to eating too many eggs. This was about 10 days ago. Ever since, it has hurt when he poops. His poops come out pretty big and seem pretty hard. He says it hurts some while pooping and then his bum hurts afterwards.

What can I do to help this? I've tried giving some flax oil, but it's been hard to get into him. I've kept a consistent intake of fruit, too. What else?

Thanks and sorry for the graphic post......

megin


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
I need some toddler poop help here!

DS is 3 and has tons of allergies. When he eats allergens, he often gets constipation. He takes lots of probiotics, etc, so we're doing a lot to help his gut (starting raw milk next week).

He had a bout of bad constipation due to eating too many eggs. This was about 10 days ago. Ever since, it has hurt when he poops. His poops come out pretty big and seem pretty hard. He says it hurts some while pooping and then his bum hurts afterwards.

What can I do to help this? I've tried giving some flax oil, but it's been hard to get into him. I've kept a consistent intake of fruit, too. What else?

Thanks and sorry for the graphic post......

megin

Try getting either vitamin c or magnesium into him. We like the Ionic Fizz magnesium here. Either of those in excess will make for loose stools and for him right now that sounds like a good idea. Also are you doing prunes or prune juice? T


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

Hello







I posted a little bit on this thread a while back but then stopped. I figured if we just at healthy NT foods then we would heal up anyway. Well, I started second guessing that line of thought and we just had an appt. with a chiro last week.

Dh and I both had four viles of blood drawn







: and that will tell us about our food allergies/sensitivities. She also explained that the test is very comprehensive and she will be able to tell from it how all of our organs are working etc....

We also just completed our stool test and sent it in. I think I screwed mine up though







: I thought I could eat a peice of toast after the stool part was complete and then realized I needed to do the saliva test still. Oops. I had a urine test done (came out fine). And I'm thinking about having us all tested for heavy metals the next appt. Just to see.

I think that tomorrow I am just going to start the anti-candida diet. I just found out from my chiro that she was probably going to put me on it anyway regardless of what the test said







Just based on my symptoms.

I have a 7 month old ds that I'm worried about. I hope I haven't hurt his little insides too badly. She didn't test him at all...she said that if I have Candida he most likely does as well anyway (ebf) Sounds like it was a good decision not to vax him as something terrible could have happened.

****Here is my actual question!*****

Although this chiro seems very knowledgeable....I do just worry about doctors now. Can't help it. She said that I will need to take some things because yeast is so difficult to get rid of (the diet won't be enough). Is there anything that would be unsafe for breastfeeding? Should I start giving ds that bifidus stuff if I come out positive for Candida? Mostly I'm worried about him. Will he heal right along with me even if he doesn't get anything but breastmilk?

Thanks! Sorry this got long. I'll post again when we find out the results too!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Adrenal fatigue stuff









http://altmedicine.about.com/od/gett...iz_adrena1.htm

http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/

http://www.lammd.com/A3R_brief_in_do...al_fatigue.cfm


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

*Chelation* - so if Im taking clorophyll, ishould I continue so that I am alkalinizing my body which the yeast dont like, or not b/c Im getting mercury into my body from the fillings? Ugh. Oy.







:

*Annikate* - sorry for the *bad* news. Check out the yahoo candidasupport group for food ideas. The first 2 weeks were definitely the hardest as my body adjusted to all the changes, but now I dont feel the need for snacks. You eat so much fat that it really lasts for several hours. Also, decaf coffee is ok on that diet. The mediator of that group talks about coffee increasing permeability, but includes decaf on her mock shopping list, so it must be the caffiene? I dropped coffee, chocolate (daily habit!!), grains, dairy, and fruit in a day, and Ive lived to tell about it (though only for 3 wks so far







)

*Bifidus* - why bad? I keep seeing this in posts.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Mamas, could you please assist me with my concerns posted here:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...48#post5783348

All about iron deficinecy again. I am not doing well









Constant headaches, fatigue etc..

I seemed to have plateaued with SCD







I've been sloooowly trying to introduce new foods, but I always have strong reactions.

I don't know what to do mamas. I'm feeling paniced right now (got to go do some yoga!). Stressed because I have no patience left with my children (well I still try seeing as this is suppose to be a GD house, but I feel stretched too thin). I've turned inward and try to spend as much time away from the kids at the computer. There are a lot of issues going on here in the home which aren't facilitating healing either (clutter is really bothering me, my DP and I have been on not the best terms lately), but most of it is internal.










(Please post in the thread I started, just because it'll be easier for me to read through. TIA)


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## lllmomma (Sep 1, 2003)

Re constipation: used milk of magnesia for dd. It easy to hide and works quickly


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

I'd love to start up a list of what folks use to heal little guts, particularly names/brands of supplements, probiotics, etc.

We use Jarrowdophilus with DS (not the kids version). It seems to really help him, but we're definitely open to changing to something better.

I'm hoping to start him on enzymes soon and would love to hear brands for that too.....

Finally, DS is balking recently at our methods for giving probiotics (in yogurt or in mushed raspberries)....I think it's the "forcing/requirement" thing....any better options?

Chime in!

Thanks!
megin


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

So, did anyone see that Jordan Rubin, of GOL, is in trouble with the FDA for making unsubstantiated claims about his supplements curing IBS and other autoimmune conditions? See: http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/rubin.html
Now, I most certainly don't like quackwatch, and also don't like the FDA witchhunt, but I wasn't really surprised that they went after him.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So apparently being on this diet is helping me to listen to what my body is asking for more. I have been craving red meat all evening and then it changed to a craving for liver. I finally brought myself to the kitchen to make some. This is the first time in my entire life I have eaten liver by choice. I have never cooked it myself. It was good. I'm still in shock.


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

I was going to start the anti-Candida diet today, but now I'm scared. I'll paraphrase what I read yesterday:

Yeast has very long legs that dig into your insides. When it dies off it then leaves holes. This is one of the ways you can develop leaky gut.

So, what do I need to have on hand for myself and for ds to heal up those holes while I'm killing them off. I don't want to start killing them if I don't have the means to heal up those dangerous holes!!!!!!!!

Is there any way to avoid leaky gut at all when getting rid of yeast or is it unavoidable? I really don't want ds to go through this.

Tell me what I should get. Ds is 7 months and exclusively breastfed. I also would not want to take anything that would be unsafe or damage our breastfeeding relationship.

Thanks for the advice!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Start making some yogurt. That will help repair the damage.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

nak
and you'd think I'd know the answer to this by now but need some reassurance.

dd1 woke up this a.m. w/a dark circle under one eye & tiny red bumps just like dd2 used to get. When dd2 had this it was from heer exposure to wheat in my diet.

dd1 has not eaten anything differrent but I have been giving her l.reuteri. Is this a die off reaction?


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Unfortunately, yogurt is not ok on the anti candida diet. Lots of fermented foods and bone broth.....


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
I was going to start the anti-Candida diet today, but now I'm scared. I'll paraphrase what I read yesterday:

Yeast has very long legs that dig into your insides. When it dies off it then leaves holes. This is one of the ways you can develop leaky gut.

So, what do I need to have on hand for myself and for ds to heal up those holes while I'm killing them off. I don't want to start killing them if I don't have the means to heal up those dangerous holes!!!!!!!!

Is there any way to avoid leaky gut at all when getting rid of yeast or is it unavoidable? I really don't want ds to go through this.

Tell me what I should get. Ds is 7 months and exclusively breastfed. I also would not want to take anything that would be unsafe or damage our breastfeeding relationship.

Thanks for the advice!

I think that as the yeast dies if you are eating healthy foods the holes will heal up by themselves. I don't have anything to back that up but that's my opinion. The body can really do an incredible job of healing itself if given the right tools (like proper diet).

ETA: bone broths are great for healing


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
****Here is my actual question!*****

Although this chiro seems very knowledgeable....I do just worry about doctors now. Can't help it. She said that I will need to take some things because yeast is so difficult to get rid of (the diet won't be enough). Is there anything that would be unsafe for breastfeeding? Should I start giving ds that bifidus stuff if I come out positive for Candida? Mostly I'm worried about him. Will he heal right along with me even if he doesn't get anything but breastmilk?

Thanks! Sorry this got long. I'll post again when we find out the results too!

Definitely give your DS some probiotics. They won't hurt and can very well help if he has any issues. The ones for EBF babies are Natren Life Start (contains dairy, easier to find) and Solaray BabyLife (non-dairy). If you heal your DS will heal, also, as long as he is still nursing and you're not feeding him unhealthy foods (ie no sugar and stay away from grains until he's at least a year old).


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
*Chelation* - so if Im taking clorophyll, ishould I continue so that I am alkalinizing my body which the yeast dont like, or not b/c Im getting mercury into my body from the fillings? Ugh. Oy.







:

*Annikate* - sorry for the *bad* news. Check out the yahoo candidasupport group for food ideas. The first 2 weeks were definitely the hardest as my body adjusted to all the changes, but now I dont feel the need for snacks. You eat so much fat that it really lasts for several hours. Also, decaf coffee is ok on that diet. The mediator of that group talks about coffee increasing permeability, but includes decaf on her mock shopping list, so it must be the caffiene? I dropped coffee, chocolate (daily habit!!), grains, dairy, and fruit in a day, and Ive lived to tell about it (though only for 3 wks so far







)

*Bifidus* - why bad? I keep seeing this in posts.

As far as I can tell the liquid chlorophyll isn't a very strong chelator so it probably isn't going to be pulling the mercury out of your fillings. I hope I'm right cuz I have a bunch of mercury fillings myself.

The bifidus isn't a recommended strain for the SCD. I don't know why. It is the recommended strain for EBF babies, and it's good for everyone who's not doing the SCD.


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

I thought fermented foods weren't allowed on the anti-candida diet. Am I wrong? I'd love to be wrong







I just made ginger carrots, sauerkraut and pickles and they are all sitting untouched in the fridge








Also hearing contradictory things (and seeing opposites on websites) on if homemade yogurt is allowed on anti-candida? Is it?
We've been doing the homemade bone broths...so that's good at least.

Thanks everyone! Also, is it best to eat most things raw? Seems I'm hearing that a mostly raw diet is the best for our bodies?


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

l glutamine, msm and zinc for the "holes"


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I think that by fermented foods these candida websites mean commercially available yogurt, pickles, vinegar, saurkraut etc,. These are not properly made, full of sugar or yeast promoting stuff like alcohol.
I believe home-made fermented foods are very beneficial for gut healing. Yogurt needs to be fermented for 24 hours to get rid of the lactose. Home-made LACTO- fermented veggies. Some people do well with kefir, others can't tolerate it.

So Caedmyn,
I have mercury fillings, too. Maybe that's why it's harder for us to kill of the yeast.... hope the chlorophyll helps you. What is it anyway and why is it good? Would it be SCD legal? Isn't that the green pigment in plants? Why would you need to chug down concentrated leaf pigments? I guess I need to read Bee's files... I don't know anyting.

So any word on selenium??????
It's supposed to bind with mercury and help the body detox. But should we amalgam people avoid it? Will it pull the mercury from the fillings?


----------



## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

ok....so just to clarify then....
On the anti-candida diet I CAN have:

homemade 24 hour yogurt
homemade lacto fermented veggies (like Wild Fermentation & NT
kefir

Just want to be sure since I know they capture and use yeast from the air to ferment in a lot of cases. Thanks everyone for being so helpful. It's difficult when I find info that contradicts itself.







:


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I think that by fermented foods these candida websites mean commercially available yogurt, pickles, vinegar, saurkraut etc,. These are not properly made, full of sugar or yeast promoting stuff like alcohol.
I believe home-made fermented foods are very beneficial for gut healing. Yogurt needs to be fermented for 24 hours to get rid of the lactose. Home-made LACTO- fermented veggies. Some people do well with kefir, others can't tolerate it.

So Caedmyn,
I have mercury fillings, too. Maybe that's why it's harder for us to kill of the yeast.... hope the chlorophyll helps you. What is it anyway and why is it good? Would it be SCD legal? Isn't that the green pigment in plants? Why would you need to chug down concentrated leaf pigments? I guess I need to read Bee's files... I don't know anyting.

So any word on selenium??????
It's supposed to bind with mercury and help the body detox. But should we amalgam people avoid it? Will it pull the mercury from the fillings?

Chlorophyll is the green stuff in plants--the one I take is made from alfalfa. This is what is on the candidasupport group about it: Chlorophyll is a whole-food that contains a wide array of vitamins, minerals and enzymes. It helps build the immune system, detoxifies heavy metals (mercury, lead, cadmium, etc.), and other pesticides in the body, improves the digestive system, improves energy levels and normalizes blood sugar and blood pressure levels. Firefaery said it alkalinizes the body, also. I have no idea if it's SCD legal.

Selenium is such an important nutrient for healing and preventing disease that I think it is important to take it (unless you live in a selenium-rich area and buy local foods). I don't know how it relates to mercury chelation, though--maybe JaneS or MT would know.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
ISo any word on selenium??????
It's supposed to bind with mercury and help the body detox. But should we amalgam people avoid it? Will it pull the mercury from the fillings?

I give dd selenium for this reason. I take it too & still have amalgams. I have never read anywhere that it can actually pull metals from the fillings.


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
ok....so just to clarify then....
On the anti-candida diet I CAN have:

homemade 24 hour yogurt
homemade lacto fermented veggies (like Wild Fermentation & NT
kefir

Well, on the anticandida yahoo diet (probably should have switched those two around







) you CANNOT have dairy, except butter. There is still too much lactose, even with 24 hr fermentation. Same with kefir. You CAN have fermented veggies, although NOT CARROTS (high sugar veggie). Saurkraut, pickles, pickled ginger (yum), salsa, etc







There are a lot of recipes that are variations on NT on the candidasupport website; join, and then go to files and scroll down to recipes. There's also a lot of info about the recommendations she has, including chlorophyl. Hers seems the most strict and yet thorough approach Ive seen.

I have a lot of info on alfalfa, but no time to post now.

*Question:*

I would like to find sources for food that are locally produced, rather than buying those at the co-op. Im thinking I could get them for less (although I just discovered this a.m. that the co-op -all local, pastured, grass fed etc - has a section of meat that they discount by half but recommend using that day. I just got some cheap filet minon







Ok, but back to the supply. Ive contacted the wapf *chapter leader* in my area and got no response. How have you all found sources (eggs, raw milk/milk, meat).

Also, if I make a bone broth using a whole chicken as NT says, can I then eat the chicken after the 12 hrs? I want the broth and the meat, ya know!

My next question will be on making yogurt







Im ready to get my family on the program as much as possible.


----------



## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

I just read Gut and Psychology Syndrome, and I'm back to thinking that I am just desperate enough to give SCD consideration for DS again. We would have to do it without any dairy, any eggs, and very little nuts, so it would be extremely limited for us, and that is why I've been trying every other approach first, but I only seem to be marking time, not making any improvements, while expending great efforts and lots of money on supplements, so I'm thinking of doing it. I have to be able to get some of the baking to work though. Today I tried making muffins from navy beans (since we can't use nuts), squash (since we can't use eggs), coconut oil and honey. After an hour, they are just mush - I'm going to put them back into the oven, but I am not optimistic.

I have to have some baked goods for Evan for this to have any chance of working. HELP please ! Has anyone gotten any of the baking to work without nuts or eggs ? I wouldn't be able to use my normal egg substitute because the first ingredient is potato starch. Unless I can come up with a way to have something resembling a cookie or muffin for him, I don't think I can do this









Thanks,

Linda B.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Linda,

What supplements is he on? Can you use coconut flour? You can use gelatin to bind instead of eggs, I think there is a recipe for egg substitute at Pecanbread. This is all because of allergies? How were they determined?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
*Question:*

I would like to find sources for food that are locally produced, rather than buying those at the co-op. Im thinking I could get them for less (although I just discovered this a.m. that the co-op -all local, pastured, grass fed etc - has a section of meat that they discount by half but recommend using that day. I just got some cheap filet minon







Ok, but back to the supply. Ive contacted the wapf *chapter leader* in my area and got no response. How have you all found sources (eggs, raw milk/milk, meat).

Also, if I make a bone broth using a whole chicken as NT says, can I then eat the chicken after the 12 hrs? I want the broth and the meat, ya know!

My next question will be on making yogurt







Im ready to get my family on the program as much as possible.

Is there another WAPF leader sort of near you? I get all my best recs thru the 2 near me. Also check www.eatwild.com and www.localharvest.org. Have you seen the Weston Price newsletter? There are farms advertised all around the country in classifieds.

Edited: yes you can remove meat anytime or just roast chicken first and then use bones for stock, that is what I do.

I got an AWESOME heavy ss roasting pan for my bday from Wms Sonoma today, can't wait to try it out!


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Not at all , this would encourage bacterial growth.

Right after I wrote that Nolan was pooping 1x per week he pooped 4 days in a row. I hope this is due to the probiotics I have been giving him.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
Should I start giving ds that bifidus stuff if I come out positive for Candida? Mostly I'm worried about him. Will he heal right along with me even if he doesn't get anything but breastmilk?

Start bifidus now regardless of what tests say. BM is liquid gold regardless of gut damage in the mama. Nothing Else will be as healing.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Right after I wrote that Nolan was pooping 1x per week he pooped 4 days in a row. I hope this is due to the probiotics I have been giving him.









Wow, go Nolan!!!!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Oh bummer, I'm no longer Chief Inspection Officer for the Poopy Patrol or whatever that embarrassing DDDC was!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Jane,
Thanks for the info on the A&D.
I have another question. Does the Thropps Ultra-Zyme have DPP-IV? I think it just said proteases...Is it working well? We've been using Digest Gold and it's been good, but pricey. I want to switch to Thropps.
Or Omega Zyme. But Thropps is still cheaper and comparable to DG in strength.
Shanna, was Omega Zyme not working well that you got rid of it?

No I think only Peptizyde and some inferior Kirkman's enzyme has it. I think Thropps works very well for me.


----------



## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Thanks Jane, I'll look up that egg substitute. Do you know where could I order coconut flour from ?

He's on ASDPlex, Kirkman Super Pro-Bio (75 billion+), Lauricidin, Zyme Prime, Candex, homemade water kefir, and I just got a sample of Kirkman Yeast-Aid to try (ordered before considering SCD).

He's still nursing a little. I assume I would have to wean him ?

I'm interested in getting the baked goods working no matter what - because I feel that any reduction in his bigger carbs would be beneficial. But getting them working would also help me feel like SCD could be possible for him.

He is severly allergic to dairy and eggs and absolutely cannot have them. This has been determined by his reactions (which last four days and are horrible), and a RAST blood test, and a skin test on the eggs (we didn't dare skin test the dairy). Because of his allergies, I absolutely do not want to make any sort of nut a daily part of his diet. I don't mind letting him try a little almond once in a while but I don't want it to be more than once every 4 days.

Is a coconut really a nut ? I haven't ever heard of coconut allergy.

Linda

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Linda,

What supplements is he on? Can you use coconut flour? You can use gelatin to bind instead of eggs, I think there is a recipe for egg substitute at Pecanbread. This is all because of allergies? How were they determined?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Oh bummer, I'm no longer Chief Inspection Officer for the Poopy Patrol or whatever that embarrassing DDDC was!

I thought it was funny!







I have a straaaange sense of humor.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
Thanks Jane, I'll look up that egg substitute. Do you know where could I order coconut flour from ?

try http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com

Quote:

Is a coconut really a nut ? I haven't ever heard of coconut allergy.
botanically speaking, it isn't a nut, it is a drupe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drupe

coconut allergy is possible:
http://allallergy.net/fapaidfind.cfm?cdeoc=388
http://www.eatwell.gov.uk/healthissu...oconutallergy/
http://www.anaphylaxis.org.uk/information/faqs.html
http://foodallergens.ifr.ac.uk/clini...lected_food=23


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

saskiasmom said:


> Well, on the anticandida yahoo diet (probably should have switched those two around
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

The Grain and Salt Society also has coconut flour, I think it's a little cheaper.
Baking will be hard without eggs... I can't imagine how you would do it.


----------



## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

I'm new here. My 4wk old is fussy and I'm working on possible diet issues. Do you think it would/could help me to take probiotics? I have been...

I ordered them for him but they haven't arrived. Is it possible to open a capsule of mine and give him a dab?


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
So why does Elaine say that the 24 hr yogurt is lactose-free if it's not? I'm sure they tested it several times before they deemed it to be legal, since they are so strict about any trace amounts of sugar...
The kefir is a different thing, there is a whole procedure to make it lactose-free, on Dom's website.
My impression of Bee's diet is that she is very familiar with NT but I don't think she is with the science behind the SCD. Or at least I didn't find anything that would suggest it. Or if she tested the SCD yogurt, is there any reference?

That would be a great question for her. No I dont recall any references about SCD 24 hr yogurt soecifically, although recall seeing no yogurt and didnt pursue it. That would be quite a revolution in my house, to be able to eat yogurt. Are you a member of the group EBG? Do you want to ask her sine you know more about SCD yogurt than I and report back here?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Alfalfa* - "...the leaves contain lots of beta carotene...as for vit. E, it is considered one of the most reliable sources for animals...Calcium is so high its off the charts...The reason human beings do not use alfalfa in the kitchen is that it is one of the most fibrous herbs in existnce, and human beings do not have the ability to break it down as animals do;
-alfalfa neutralizes acids and poisons
-Alfalfa has a natural ablity to feed and stimulate the pituitary
-alfalfa is so mineral rich b/c its roots are so long and get down to mineral rich soil
-rich in b12
-alfalfa contains flouride, but not the artificial sodium flouride which is an aluminum manufacturing byproduct, so strengthens bones and teeth
-the high enzymes content of alfalfa helps the body to balance its systems, enabling it to ward off infectious disease and boosts the immune system to ward of degenerative conditions
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*
Bone Broth:* it seems like the bones from one lowly chicken would not make a very substantial broth though (if I roasted it first and used the bones in the broth). Would that be enough? 1 gallon water, veggies and the bones of a little chicken?....


----------



## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Unfortunately, yogurt is not ok on the anti candida diet. Lots of fermented foods and bone broth.....










It depends on the diet. In the Complete Candida Guidebook, eating PLAIN yogurt is okay if you mix in some probiotics before eating.


----------



## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*

Tell me what I should get. Ds is 7 months and exclusively breastfed. I also would not want to take anything that would be unsafe or damage our breastfeeding relationship.


For yeast, my practitioner recommended ADP (Oil of Oregano) pills made by Biotics Research Corp. You have to get them through a practitioner though. I tried the Makers Diet recommended ones that you can buy through the HFS and they were nasty... Everything about me smelled/tasted like oregano-the ADP ones don't cause that. I was also advised to take a protease enzyme between meals.

Another practitioner recommended GSE (5 drops) in water 1st thing in the am. I know some people say GSE kills the "good" bacteria as well as the yeast. Anyway, both of these recommendations were made while I was bf.


----------



## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess*
I'm new here. My 4wk old is fussy and I'm working on possible diet issues. Do you think it would/could help me to take probiotics? I have been...

I ordered them for him but they haven't arrived. Is it possible to open a capsule of mine and give him a dab?

Yes, you can make a paste and put it on your nipple if you are bf and he will get some that way.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

saskiasmom said:


> That would be a great question for her. No I dont recall any references about SCD 24 hr yogurt soecifically, although recall seeing no yogurt and didnt pursue it. That would be quite a revolution in my house, to be able to eat yogurt. Are you a member of the group EBG? Do you want to ask her sine you know more about SCD yogurt than I and report back here?
> 
> OK


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess*
I'm new here. My 4wk old is fussy and I'm working on possible diet issues. Do you think it would/could help me to take probiotics? I have been...

I ordered them for him but they haven't arrived. Is it possible to open a capsule of mine and give him a dab?

Only give him yours if they only contain bifidus, as that makes up 99% of the good bacteria in an EBF baby's gut. There are some adult probiotics that only contain bifidus, but as far as I know there are only two baby ones: Natren Life Start (contains dairy) and Solaray BabyLife (dairy free).


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

EBG said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
> ...


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
For yeast, my practitioner recommended ADP (Oil of Oregano) pills made by Biotics Research Corp. You have to get them through a practitioner though. I tried the Makers Diet recommended ones that you can buy through the HFS and they were nasty... Everything about me smelled/tasted like oregano-the ADP ones don't cause that. I was also advised to take a protease enzyme between meals.

Another practitioner recommended GSE (5 drops) in water 1st thing in the am. I know some people say GSE kills the "good" bacteria as well as the yeast. Anyway, both of these recommendations were made while I was bf.

Just FYI, oil of oregano is not recommended during pregnancy or BF'ing--if you're nursing it can decrease your milk supply.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

caedmyn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *EBG*
> ...


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Hope everyone is having a nice Friday and enjoys their weekend!
I got a kick out of this bumper sticker - and it made me think of this thread.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
Hope everyone is having a nice Friday and enjoys their weekend!
I got a kick out of this bumper sticker - and it made me think of this thread.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

EBG, what do you mean your husband would never let you have them removed? It's your body! And any money he earns is half yours, legally anyway. It's probably to do with not having enough money to do it. But that's not how you put it. You put it as if he's in control of all the money and you don't have any say in how it is spent. I know my dh wasn't keen on how I've been spending money on holistic things, but it hasn't stopped me completely.

Is there a way you could earn some money on the side, say through opening an in-home daycare? Just wondering. I'm a SAHM, and am lately thinking about trying to become a WAHM.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

EBG said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
> ...


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Well, on the anticandida yahoo diet (probably should have switched those two around







) you CANNOT have dairy, except butter. There is still too much lactose, even with 24 hr fermentation. Same with kefir.

I would like to find sources for food that are locally produced, rather than buying those at the co-op. Im thinking I could get them for less (although I just discovered this a.m. that the co-op -all local, pastured, grass fed etc - has a section of meat that they discount by half but recommend using that day. I just got some cheap filet minon









You probably don't want to give away where you live publicly, but if you're in my area PM me, I can hook you up with the milk/eggs/butter.

Funny, I just went to the co-op near me and bought them out of ground lamb. $2.99 a pound!







He said it wasn't a good seller (maybe why they put it all on sale?). So if anyone is thinking of going to PCC in Redmond to take advantage of their special on lamb, they're out.









I thought the 24 hour yogurt has no lactose?







:


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

[
I hope Bee's diet plan helps you...can you do bone broths at all? Even if you could only get conventional bones from a butcher or whatever that would be better than nothing, IMO.[/QUOTE]

Yes! I just have to remind myself to buy some chicken legs or bones... I keep forgetting and then beat myself up all week for not being able to make broth. unfortunately can only buy commercially raised, but as you said, it's better than nothing. I'm going shopping tomorrow!!! Need cabbage, too. I'm just talking to myself here, never mind.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
*
Bone Broth:* it seems like the bones from one lowly chicken would not make a very substantial broth though (if I roasted it first and used the bones in the broth). Would that be enough? 1 gallon water, veggies and the bones of a little chicken?....

Oh, but it does!

Here's what I do:

Put chicken in crock pot on low until cooked (I have no idea how long, I just leave it in there until I remember to check on it).

Once it's done, let cool in pot.

Once it's cool, pull off leg quarters and breasts. Take out giblet bag and eat contents (this is what I do, remember).

Leave drippings, remaining carcass, bones in crock pot. Add carrots, onions, celery, garlic, salt, water. Turn crock on high for 2-3 hours (really gets the good stuff out of the bones), then on low for a few more hours (again, until I remember to check). It is the best darn broth/soup ever! You can add the meat back in later - I find that cooking the meat in the stock makes it stringy and sort of tasteless if that makes sense.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
So any word on selenium??????
It's supposed to bind with mercury and help the body detox. But should we amalgam people avoid it? Will it pull the mercury from the fillings?

No, it aids body in detox it's not a chelator per se.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
l glutamine, msm and zinc for the "holes"

And high vitamin cod liver oil.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
Thanks Jane, I'll look up that egg substitute. Do you know where could I order coconut flour from ?

He's on ASDPlex, Kirkman Super Pro-Bio (75 billion+), Lauricidin, Zyme Prime, Candex, homemade water kefir, and I just got a sample of Kirkman Yeast-Aid to try (ordered before considering SCD).

He's still nursing a little. I assume I would have to wean him ?

I'm interested in getting the baked goods working no matter what - because I feel that any reduction in his bigger carbs would be beneficial. But getting them working would also help me feel like SCD could be possible for him.

He is severly allergic to dairy and eggs and absolutely cannot have them. This has been determined by his reactions (which last four days and are horrible), and a RAST blood test, and a skin test on the eggs (we didn't dare skin test the dairy). Because of his allergies, I absolutely do not want to make any sort of nut a daily part of his diet. I don't mind letting him try a little almond once in a while but I don't want it to be more than once every 4 days.

Is a coconut really a nut ? I haven't ever heard of coconut allergy.

Linda

Coconut flour at Digestive Wellness: http://www.digestivewellness.com/ite...4-11-1567.html
And Tropical Traditions:
http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/or...onut_flour.htm

Although I think you can try whizzing up coconut shreds in food processor too, just make sure they are sugar free.

Why would you wean? Based on our experience I would say step it up!!


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
And high vitamin cod liver oil.

Jane, do you use Green Pastures/Arctic Ice CLO?
Do you take any other EFAs?

Have you or anyone else done research on the role of prostaglandins and gut health??


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I thought it was funny!







I have a straaaange sense of humor.









it was funny here, but not elsewhere on board when I maybe want to be taken seriously!! (said very lightheartedly)


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

A coconut is technically a fruit so it shouldn't be a problem for people with nut allergies. In fact, it's usually one of the easiest foods to tolerate for those who have lots of food sensitivities.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







it was funny here, but not elsewhere on board when I maybe want to be taken seriously!! (said very lightheartedly)

















True!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
Jane, do you use Green Pastures/Arctic Ice CLO?
Do you take any other EFAs?

Have you or anyone else done research on the role of prostaglandins and gut health??

I use the one from Radiant Life, it's fishy with no masking flavor but DS slurps it just fine. Most of the time I do too, but some mornings I just do a juice or lemon water chaser.

Not that I can remember, sorry! Dr. Nichols book? I haven't gotten very far on it but what I've read so far is very good.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess*
I'm new here. My 4wk old is fussy and I'm working on possible diet issues. Do you think it would/could help me to take probiotics? I have been...

I ordered them for him but they haven't arrived. Is it possible to open a capsule of mine and give him a dab?











See the last post in the Cheat Sheet sticky .. he should NOT be getting your probiotic, he should be getting bifidus strain only. Yes it will help if you take them too.


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Not that I can remember, sorry! Dr. Nichols book? I haven't gotten very far on it but what I've read so far is very good.

Nope - it was an idea I've been pondering after talking with the nurse practitioner urologist I see. I asked her whether she thought the plant-based progesterone supplements I take during the luteal phase of my cycle could be causing my bladder/digestive symptoms to really flare. She said that she didn't think so and that most of their research has shown more of a connection between prostaglandins and bladder inflammation. I'm just wondering if it would also be connected to the gut. Clearly certain EFAs are critical in healing inflammation but I'm curious if perhaps something happens with me (us in this group) where certain hormonal changes during the luteal phase disrupt prostaglandins and therefore cause an inflammation in previously weakened areas in the body.

I'm not really a scientist. I just play one on TV


----------



## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Thanks for the info - I've ordered 4 lbs from tropicaltraditions. Can't wait to try it ! Also I found the gelatin egg sub method too !

I was unsure as to whether or not breastmilk was considered "fluid milk in any form" ... when I check on pecanbread, or in the GAPS book, it just says liquid milk of any kind is not ok, and I could not find anything specific about breastmilk, and I assume since breastmilk also contains lactose, well, that it might not be ok from a legal sugar standpoint. That was one of the other reasons I have been dragging my feet on SCD - I believe that my milk has so many things that are good for him, and I've heard of ASD kids regressing when they wean, that I really really did not want to have to wean him to do the diet.

Linda

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Coconut flour at Digestive Wellness: http://www.digestivewellness.com/ite...4-11-1567.html
And Tropical Traditions:
http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/or...onut_flour.htm

Although I think you can try whizzing up coconut shreds in food processor too, just make sure they are sugar free.

Why would you wean? Based on our experience I would say step it up!!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
I'm not really a scientist. I just play one on TV

















Don't we all?


----------



## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Just checking in... I got my Blue Ice and X Factor oils today along w/ 4 qts. coconut cream concentrate.


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

EBG said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
> ...


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
For yeast, my practitioner recommended ADP (Oil of Oregano) pills made by Biotics Research Corp. You have to get them through a practitioner though. I tried the Makers Diet recommended ones that you can buy through the HFS and they were nasty... Everything about me smelled/tasted like oregano-the ADP ones don't cause that. I was also advised to take a protease enzyme between meals.

Another practitioner recommended GSE (5 drops) in water 1st thing in the am. I know some people say GSE kills the "good" bacteria as well as the yeast. Anyway, both of these recommendations were made while I was bf.

I thought Oil of Oregano wasn't ok while bfing? Hmmm....


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

EBG said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
> ...


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

saskiasmom said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *EBG*
> ...


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Anyone know what could cause silver/grey streaks on teeth? A couple of days ago I noticed some silver streaks on my front teeth (both top and bottom). It looks like someone took a silver or grey fine-point pen and made some marks on my teeth. It appears to just be on the outside of the teeth--I don't think there is any internal damage and I can't feel any damage to the tooth enamel, either, which makes me think that something I am eating is directly causing these marks. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I have this too. I have one front tooth on the bottom that has a grey mark on it, it's small, but I can still see it. It doesn't look or feel like a cavity, but doesn't come off with brushing. I have no idea...


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Oh so much to respond to! If only I knew how to use the quote function







I don't do well with technology.

Low blood sugar could indicate many things, but how low is low and how many times was the reading taken? Was it a fasting test? FOr an accurate reading it should be taken at four different points throughout the day. Low is okay as long as you are able to regulate blood sugar and aren't putting a strain on your pancreas. If it's low and you never feel lighheaded or starving past the point of no return and are nonfunctional until you eat-then it's not okay. Can you go long periods of time without eating and have no bad side effects? IF not you're probably doing great!

Re: healing the gut, basic gut health and prostaglandins I'm doing it now. What are you looking for specifically? I'm looking at estradiol as well.

Oil of Oregano is NOT OKAY FOR PREGNANCY OR BREASTFEEDING!

Never ever deprive your baby of the immunoglobulins in your milk. They will heal twice as fast with them. Babies need to nurse for at least two years for maximum benefit in gut health. IT is a scientific fact that the immature gut is permeable until two years of age.


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Ok, dumb question ahead: what is *wrong* with store bought yogurt? We eat (and by we I mean my family







) plain cascadian farms, which claims to have all kinds of strains. Dh doesnt understand my exitement about making yogurt.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--just hit the quote button on the bottom of the person's post that you want to quote

My DD is still occasionally having a bit of blood in her stool (like maybe every 10 days or so). Is this a sign that she's not really very healed, or could it be caused by all the non-food things she picks off the floor and eats (ie paper, bits of wood, styrofoam, cardboard--my house is clean, really it is!)?


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Ok, dumb question ahead: what is *wrong* with store bought yogurt? We eat (and by we I mean my family







) plain cascadian farms, which claims to have all kinds of strains. Dh doesnt understand my exitement about making yogurt.

They are not fermented long enough so they are full of lactose. Also, manufacturers add other stuff like milk solids, pectin etc etc. So the bacteria can't proliferate any more, they are stuck and you're stuck with sugar. You can use it as a starter, though. Dannon Plain is OK, Erivan is OK, I'm not sure about the others, as long as they say live cultures and no additives, just milk.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
Nope - it was an idea I've been pondering after talking with the nurse practitioner urologist I see. I asked her whether she thought the plant-based progesterone supplements I take during the luteal phase of my cycle could be causing my bladder/digestive symptoms to really flare. She said that she didn't think so and that most of their research has shown more of a connection between prostaglandins and bladder inflammation. I'm just wondering if it would also be connected to the gut. Clearly certain EFAs are critical in healing inflammation but I'm curious if perhaps something happens with me (us in this group) where certain hormonal changes during the luteal phase disrupt prostaglandins and therefore cause an inflammation in previously weakened areas in the body.

I'm not really a scientist. I just play one on TV









There are other things which effect your hormones... such as a lot of omega 6 oils, resulting in imbalanced omega 3/6 balance, very common today with the SAD and a lot of people eating vegetable oils for their fats and eating meat/dairy from animals on unnatural grain-fed diets.

No offense to her, but if they are urologists, their research is naturally going to focus on bladder, not gut.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
I was unsure as to whether or not breastmilk was considered "fluid milk in any form" ... when I check on pecanbread, or in the GAPS book, it just says liquid milk of any kind is not ok, and I could not find anything specific about breastmilk, and I assume since breastmilk also contains lactose, well, that it might not be ok from a legal sugar standpoint. That was one of the other reasons I have been dragging my feet on SCD - I believe that my milk has so many things that are good for him, and I've heard of ASD kids regressing when they wean, that I really really did not want to have to wean him to do the diet.

SCD has never said to wean, breastmilk is the exception. It's really too bad that this point is not discussed more.

The lactose in BM is different kind than cow's milk lactose. It feeds good bacteria, that is what it's designed to do.

I weaned but not for SCD, we just went to it because that was where I was in my research and his gut went downhill after that. Weaning was stupid, stupid, stupid. I thought I was the cause of all his ills, and essentially I was, but my BM was more than making up for that.


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## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
The lactose in BM is different kind than cow's milk lactose. It feeds good bacteria, that is what it's designed to do.

Although when moms have breastmilk oversupply ... babies can get lactose overload and resulting gut damage - this happened in a big way with my ds, and it was made worse by my own gut problems. Of course I would never ever recommend weaning for this reason - breast is always best







. I am dealing with nursing challenges with almost 3 year old ds right now, but I know that his need to nurse is not just for comfort and he is probably still experiencing oral aversion and gut issues and that the breastmilk probably helps with at this point. Firefaery referred me to an LC who helped me deal with oversupply issues this time around. Congrats on your baby Firefaery!


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

*Yogurt* - Ok, Ive got the thermometer and jars, now I need to figure out how to keep it at 100-110 for 24 hrs. Pizza stones are $$$ (at least where I looked today). How do others do it?

Starters - do you just experiment with probiotics (I have a jar of megadophlus in the fidge I wont be eating - pills - can I use that? I know pattyla just did.... 6 pills/6 oz milk yes?)
*
Fermeneted food/juice* - For those on the yahoo plan, why not drink more rejuvelac? I know she says "more [of anything] is not better" but I often make bigger batches and then figure I should drink it btwn meals too? Why not just drink it all day - have constant flow of probact going through?


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## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

My sister has been TTC#1 for six months (she's 36 yo and getting anxious about it) and definitely has gut issues (pretty bad digestive problems and was bulemic 15 years ago). She believes that she is ovulating normally but she doesn't get "eggwhite" cervical fluid. Any specific gut-fertility links that she should be aware of? I have already given her lots of general gut healing info...


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
*Yogurt* - Ok, Ive got the thermometer and jars, now I need to figure out how to keep it at 100-110 for 24 hrs. Pizza stones are $$$ (at least where I looked today). How do others do it?

Starters - do you just experiment with probiotics (I have a jar of megadophlus in the fidge I wont be eating - pills - can I use that? I know pattyla just did.... 6 pills/6 oz milk yes?)
*
Fermeneted food/juice* - For those on the yahoo plan, why not drink more rejuvelac? I know she says "more [of anything] is not better" but I often make bigger batches and then figure I should drink it btwn meals too? Why not just drink it all day - have constant flow of probact going through?

I used 2 pills in 1 qt of milk. Not sure if I needed that much or not. Since I culture for 32 hours or longer I expect that covers me if it wasn't quite enough starter. (I put my yogurt into the maker at bedtime and usually take it out 2 mornings later whenever I remember to get it). I also did one pill plus a packet of yogurmet which is my usual starter.

Oh and I use 4 salton yogurt makers that I got on amazon for like $15 each.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
*
Fermeneted food/juice* - For those on the yahoo plan, why not drink more rejuvelac? I know she says "more [of anything] is not better" but I often make bigger batches and then figure I should drink it btwn meals too? Why not just drink it all day - have constant flow of probact going through?

I don't see why you couldn't as long as it doesn't give you too bad of die-off symptoms. I guess you could ask her what she thinks--I think the "more is not better" tends to refer to trying to do too much too fast, or taking more than one type of anti-fungal or anti-fungals containing a combination of things. Personally I think the stuff is nasty so 3x a day is enough!


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

I haven't posted in awhile but have a quick question. Has anyone tried the coconut oil by Marine Biotherapies? I can get it through a local Frontier coop and wondered how it tastes. I know there have been some discussions on different coconut oils but couldn't find a reference to this one when searching.


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
Nope - it was an idea I've been pondering after talking with the nurse practitioner urologist I see. I asked her whether she thought the plant-based progesterone supplements I take during the luteal phase of my cycle could be causing my bladder/digestive symptoms to really flare. She said that she didn't think so and that most of their research has shown more of a connection between prostaglandins and bladder inflammation. I'm just wondering if it would also be connected to the gut. Clearly certain EFAs are critical in healing inflammation but I'm curious if perhaps something happens with me (us in this group) where certain hormonal changes during the luteal phase disrupt prostaglandins and therefore cause an inflammation in previously weakened areas in the body.

I'm not really a scientist. I just play one on TV

















about playing a scientist. I feel like that often with all of this stuff. What you said above re: inflammation in previously weakened areas and hormones is really intriguing me. I'll make this quick but... when I was 18 I was in a MVA and hit both of my knees on the dashboard (yes, not wearing a seatbelt







). During my twenties is when all of my medical problems seemed to come on full force. One of my major symptoms was and still is, intermittent knee swelling. Until I went on a rotation diet, one of my knees would swell about every 2 weeks. I never charted it to see which two weeks but I could feel it coming on (2 days), it would peak for about a day and then slowly subside (2 days). I can't for the life of me remember what it did during my pregnancy but... I think it pretty much disappeared only to return after delivery. Since then, it has improved since being on an elimination diet. Then, curiously, since I have started the SCD, it happens about once a week, so it has gotten more frequent, but it is much more mild. It doesn't affect my ability to walk/bend like it used to but it is uncomfortable.

I have asked naturopaths what they thought of the intermittent aspect of the swelling but they never could give me an answer. In my mind though, I always thought that it must be tied to my hormones because of the cyclical nature of it.

Let me know your thoughts. This is very interesting. I wonder though why doing the SCD would change the frequency. The severity I understand because I am avoiding many of my "reactive" foods - hence the gut connection you mentioned.


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
I haven't posted in awhile but have a quick question. Has anyone tried the coconut oil by Marine Biotherapies? I can get it through a local Frontier coop and wondered how it tastes. I know there have been some discussions on different coconut oils but couldn't find a reference to this one when searching.

I bought one jar with my Frontier order this month. I tried to investigate it a little but there was not a tremendous amount of info. It does say <<<<
Virgin 100% Organic* Coconut Oil -is a superior Coconut Oil due to the expeller pressed process that is used without solvents or additives. The flavor is very pleasant and great for cooking and baking. It is naturally saturated, non-hydrogenated and contains no trans fatty acids (TFA's). This provides for a great vegetarian and dairy free diet. Coconut oil can be used as an alternative for butter or margarine.>>>>

Now that I am re-reading it, I am thinking the expeller pressed process means that it is refined




























. Is this true? Man, I was really excited because it would save me $4 a jar. Ugh.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
I bought one jar with my Frontier order this month. I tried to investigate it a little but there was not a tremendous amount of info. It does say <<<<
Virgin 100% Organic* Coconut Oil -is a superior Coconut Oil due to the expeller pressed process that is used without solvents or additives. The flavor is very pleasant and great for cooking and baking. It is naturally saturated, non-hydrogenated and contains no trans fatty acids (TFA's). This provides for a great vegetarian and dairy free diet. Coconut oil can be used as an alternative for butter or margarine.>>>>

Now that I am re-reading it, I am thinking the expeller pressed process means that it is refined




























. Is this true? Man, I was really excited because it would save me $4 a jar. Ugh.









I am not sure if expeller pressed means refined. I will look more into that. I am going to check the Mercola.com website to see what the description of the one he sells says. I won't buy from him as I hate the total sales pitch approach but curious to see how the frontier one measures up to his...

so I looked more and found this explanation on a site for another brand
http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals....oconut-oil.htm
it does appear that expeller pressed does mean it is refined (thus making it better for high heat uses). does that mean that we should buy two kinds, one for high heat and one for other uses?


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Ok, I got answer from Bee to the SCD yogurt question.

She said she was familiar with the SCD and several peope joined her group and got better after they gave up all dairy.
Even if the lactose is all broken up, there are still sugars in it: glucose and galactose. These are simple and are absorbed and would not make it into the gut but they still feed candida. Also, candida sufferers have a leaky gut and have difficulty digesting casein, especially from pasturized/homogenized milk.
Even raw milk yogurt causes a problem for some people.

So as much as I hate the thought of it, I have to give up my yogurt








I would not give it up if I had raw milk but I guess no yogurt is better than pasteurized.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Ok, I got answer from Bee to the SCD yogurt question.

She said she was familiar with the SCD and several peope joined her group and got better after they gave up all dairy.
Even if the lactose is all broken up, there are still sugars in it: glucose and galactose. These are simple and are absorbed and would not make it into the gut but they still feed candida. Also, candida sufferers have a leaky gut and have difficulty digesting casein, especially from pasturized/homogenized milk.
Even raw milk yogurt causes a problem for some people.

So as much as I hate the thought of it, I have to give up my yogurt








I would not give it up if I had raw milk but I guess no yogurt is better than pasteurized.

Yogurt was my favorite part of the diet. I wasn't planning on going on the candida diet from SCD but it looks as if my food intolerances and Nolan's are getting us there. I am pretty sure that he cannot tolerate any dairy from any animal. I think he cannnot have eggs either. I know he cannot tolerate any fruit except bananas. It has taken me 2 months to get to the point where I *think* I know what he is sensitive to. This is a long process







: !

I will be looking at Bee's sauerkraut recipe tonight...


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

OK, I'm glad to hear that. I looked for the info in Breaking the Vicious Cycle, and I looked on pecanbread.com, and I looked in Gut and Psychology Syndrome, and could not find anything other than "fluid milk of any kind is not permitted", and nothing specific about breastmilk, and I've always felt it was helping him.

Question 2 - then do I need to go SCD as well ? I've gone GFCF with him, because I have *proof* that casein gets into my milk and sets him off for four days, and I also eliminate his other allergens completely as well, so if I need to do this with him, I will. But do I have to ? If I eat illegal starches and sugars, will they get into my breastmilk ?

Linda

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
SCD has never said to wean, breastmilk is the exception. It's really too bad that this point is not discussed more.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

If casein is getting into your milk, then you have a leaky gut. SCD is supposed to help that. There are other ways, but they don't have the history of SCD.

Today I bought some sourdough rye bread from the farmer's market, figuring that after over 10 months on SCD maybe we can do it. Well, I got chest pains after eating it, so I guess it's still too soon for me. I've been feeling very tired of SCD, the expense the work, the lack of support. And then also there's the fact that my spit still tests positive for yeast. I don't want to go on the candida diet, because a) I am afraid if I give up dairy I won't get enough calcium and b) ds would never stop eating fruit -- and he doesn't eat any veggies and very little eggs, so he would only be able to eat meat and coconut oil on the candida diet -- and we can't afford that much meat, especially not free range organic. Sigh.


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

I'm pretty sure Ds and I have candida. We are starting the diet etc. He is 7 months. Here is my question....

He hasn't started any solids yet and is EBF. I'm thinking I may just like to wait until we get rid of the candida and heal the gut before I even let him have solids. Solids on top of all of this just seems like a recipe for more problems. Am I off base here? Good or bad idea?

Thanks!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
OK, I'm glad to hear that. I looked for the info in Breaking the Vicious Cycle, and I looked on pecanbread.com, and I looked in Gut and Psychology Syndrome, and could not find anything other than "fluid milk of any kind is not permitted", and nothing specific about breastmilk, and I've always felt it was helping him.

Question 2 - then do I need to go SCD as well ? I've gone GFCF with him, because I have *proof* that casein gets into my milk and sets him off for four days, and I also eliminate his other allergens completely as well, so if I need to do this with him, I will. But do I have to ? If I eat illegal starches and sugars, will they get into my breastmilk ?

Linda

Liinda, you won't find anything about b'feeding in those places. Unfortunately, most of what you'll read doesn't take b'feeding into account at all. Breastmilk is best no matter what - - leaky mama gut or not.

I actually started this diet *for* dd2. So the answer to whether or not you need to do this with him is yes imo. You already know that what you consume affects your ds. Your healing will only help ds heal. And yes, starches and sugars will get into your b'milk. Sorry.









GFCF is a good start but SCD will heal you. I was actually GFCF when I began SCD too. It helped dd, but nothing like SCD did.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: I didn't think *I* needed healing when I started this but I went ahead and did it for dd. After only a few weeks on the diet I began to realize that all of the digestive problems I had been living with were *not* normal.

SCD has helped w/that. It's helped me maintain weight (for the first time in my life), it's helped me have more energy (despite having little to no sleep), and it's helped much much more including my depression. All because now my body can absorb nutrients and use them instead of wasting them.

Like it says in BTVC, try it for a month. If you don't see improvement, then the diet probably wasn't going to help you anyway.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
I'm pretty sure Ds and I have candida. We are starting the diet etc. He is 7 months. Here is my question....

He hasn't started any solids yet and is EBF. I'm thinking I may just like to wait until we get rid of the candida and heal the gut before I even let him have solids. Solids on top of all of this just seems like a recipe for more problems. Am I off base here? Good or bad idea?

Thanks!

Good idea!


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Thanks ! I don't mind doing it. After 1.5 yrs of being on his allergy elimination diet, and our four-month gluten-free experiement, I'm used to it. And eliminating all dairy has worked out great for me as all my respiratory asthma-like stuff went away.

I feel like my digestion is pretty good -meaning it doesn't cause me any problems that I notice. Of course I could still have malabsorption going on, but I don't have gas, cramps, etc for the most part. But, I think I have other yeasty symptoms. I always seem to have a case of thrush brewing in my breasts, and the slightest extra stress tips me over the edge and it gets painful and I have to start treating it. I also struggle with mood swings and my own temper, which are the same symptoms I see in Evan, just much more extreme.

So far our 10-month-old Collin seems to be a picture of health, but I suppose my own problems are putting him at some risk too, so it would be good for him for me to do this.

I am eagerly awaiting my coconut flour.

Linda

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Liinda, you won't find anything about b'feeding in those places. Unfortunately, most of what you'll read doesn't take b'feeding into account at all. Breastmilk is best no matter what - - leaky mama gut or not.

I actually started this diet *for* dd2. So the answer to whether or not you need to do this with him is yes imo. You already know that what you consume affects your ds. Your healing will only help ds heal. And yes, starches and sugars will get into your b'milk. Sorry.









GFCF is a good start but SCD will heal you. I was actually GFCF when I began SCD too. It helped dd, but nothing like SCD did.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: I didn't think *I* needed healing when I started this but I went ahead and did it for dd. After only a few weeks on the diet I began to realize that all of the digestive problems I had been living with were *not* normal.

SCD has helped w/that. It's helped me maintain weight (for the first time in my life), it's helped me have more energy (despite having little to no sleep), and it's helped much much more including my depression. All because now my body can absorb nutrients and use them instead of wasting them.

Like it says in BTVC, try it for a month. If you don't see improvement, then the diet probably wasn't going to help you anyway.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Hi mamas.
An updated on us of sorts. Two different issues I'll cover here.

I have been pondering going dairy free. When we first started scd we did just goat dairy for like a month or 6 weeks. (I don't remember exactly) and then switched to raw cow. I didn't see any difference in me or dd so we stuck with the (cheaper) raw cow. Now all this talk about dairy feeding the yeast has me wondering if any dairy is wise for us but too intimidated to eliminate it. Well today right before nap time dd told dh she was hungry so he got her a snack. A bunch of (pasturized, organic) provelone cheese. Come nap time and she was acting like she was reacting to a food. Restless, not able to sleep or relax even when she tried. Granted this happens at times with no known trigger but it seemed too coincidental. So, I'm going to cut out all dairy for a couple of days and see what happens. We are going on a trip on Wed so if it doesn't make a difference in the next couple of days I'll put it back in and do a longer trial of taking it out once we get back home and settled. I don't need to add more stress to my life than is necessary. I did just find out that my sil recently cut out all dairy for my nephew and it had a positive impact the first day so hopefully it will be that clear for us. Not that I want to eliminate dairy but I have had the sense that dd was reacting to something and I didn't know what.

Also, as some of you know we had a less than ideal birth. The important part is that dd was taken to the nicu and we were kept from holding her for the first 36 hours of her life. I have had a sense that this was also an important issue that needed healing for us. Toward that end we did a special bath yesterday. At the begining of the bath the woman doing it took our temps and then again at the end of the whole process (bath plus laying down for a while wrapped up in blankets) My temp went up, as expected, but dd's went down. The woman doing it said that a drop in temp usually means that the person is releasing something, esp inflamation. (releasing instead of processing, the bath is supposed to encourage you to process the things that are causing your physical symptoms, basically, I think....) We did it together and while it is too soon to say if it is making a change in us I am thinking that it is working on me in interesting ways and God help the person who crosses me today.







I have realized today that my biggest regret about dd's birth is all the ways that I didn't stand up and speak my mind and instead acted like a good patient in hopes that they would leave us alone and get us out of there faster. I needed to stand up for me and my baby but something stopped me. Well here I am 2.5 years later and I think I am finally finding my voice again. I'm a bit nervous about this upcomming trip becasue my outspokenness has been the greatest source of conflict between me and my mother over the years but one way or another we will survive.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Wow, Pattyla, that sounds powerful and amazing! Thanks for sharing.

Quote:

Like it says in BTVC, try it for a month. If you don't see improvement, then the diet probably wasn't going to help you anyway.
On this note. I have seen _some_ improvement in SCD, but honestly, it has been quite back and forth. I can say with almost 100% certainty that I don't have candida or leaky gut or Crohns, or IBS. I do not know what to diagnose myself with.







I am just starting to wonder if SCD isn't the amazing cure for me, what should I do instead. More fermented foods? Right now I am just doing raw milk yogurt. I have water kefir grains that I am trying to rejuvenate and hopefully they will still work.

Other things I will continue to do or add back in:
CO
CLO
sodium ascorbate (maybe need a higher dose? caedymn, you thought you need 25 g for heaing?)
bioflavenoids
mangnesium
zinc
chlorophyll
enzymes
after the heat is gone, bone broths

Any thing else that might be helpful? I do think that stress plays a major role in whatever it is that I am dealing with, but there are physical things wrong that I want to help.

Any thoughts would be most appreciated.


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

:


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
sodium ascorbate (maybe need a higher dose? caedymn, you thought you need 25 g for heaing?)

I've read that you need to do vitamin C to 80-90% of bowel tolerance for it to be effective for chronic health problems, so I'm trying to get to bowel tolerance now. Right now I'm doing 25 grams a day, and it has given me a ton of gas, but definitely not to bowel tolerance yet. I guess I'll up it to 30 grams in the next day or two and see what happens.

You might actually look into this anti-candida diet, because it's supposed to be good for healing all sorts of other things and not just candida. You can do a search for "optimal diet", which is what it's based on--some Polish doctor healed lots of people from all sorts of diseases using this diet. I think it might allow a few foods that aren't allowed on the anti-candida diet.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

*caedmyn* -- this may not be manageable, but vit c has a half life of about 30 minutes. If you spread your doses out every hour, you'll absorb more. One gram an hour would work but then you obviously wouldn't get 25 grams in. Try two grams an hour and see what happens. Depending on how you are taking it now, you're probably not absorbing a lot of the 25 grams.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Ok, more dumb questions ahead:

1. Sodium ascorbate? What is ascorbic acid? Now I cant remember which Bee recommends (Cademyn?). I take 3000mg/day "vit. C crystals" which is a white powder from the co-op that has 3600mg vit C/tsp (and is $35/lb







: ). I know Ive read about the differences in Vit C sources but didnt take notes - I WILL!









2. 1g = 1000mg yes

3. *Yogurt* - I am now convinced that my children, but especially my son, has gut issues. My goal is to get him as much healing foods without pushing Dh over the edge. Number one is yogurt:

~How do you decide the strains that you put in as your starter? There's probiotics (with myriad choices of which to put in - how do I know which to choose if I do ad prob's?), yogourmet, and Dannon. I really want to make a batch tonight. I have some megaflora I want to use, but should I also include some yogurt to start or yogourmet?

~I cant find a place that will kepp the jars at 100-110. My oven light only gets them to 95-ish. Any ideas?

So, ds is sick today, and dh is working till laaaaaate, so Im thinking of trying the garlic socks on ds tonight. Ill let you know


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

A few more questions:

1. Those of you using L. Reuteri, what was the brand? I just combed through the last few pages but couldn't find it. And what differences are you seeing in yourselves/your DC from it? And finally, how exactly do you culture it in yogurt?

2. My partner and I have been on enzymes for a bit over a week. Neither of us experienced any real die-off, except perhaps one sleepless night for me. My partner is the one who seems to have more gut issues, though she saw little die-off. Does this mean they are not necessary? Also, what changes should we be looking for? I was hoping they'd help with my constant exhaustion and that they would help her general digestion, absorption of nutrients, etc.

3. How much CLO/Omega 3s for a 3yo? I just found a form in which he can tolerate them........(it's a pudding-kind of preparation from Whole Foods, although not their brand -- sugar free and artificial sweetener free too!)

Thanks!
megin


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

I'm planning on adding B6 to my protocol (so far so good in the second half of my cycle! I







l-glutamine!) for its benefits in the gut and on lengthening the luteal phase. I've heard various recommendations for amounts per day and I was just at my local health food store and they carried a wide range of options - anywhere from 16 mg (sublingual - is this necessary for B6??) all the way to 500 mg. Anyone have any information regarding this as well as brand recommendations?? TIA!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Hi mamas.
An updated on us of sorts. Two different issues I'll cover here.

I have been pondering going dairy free. When we first started scd we did just goat dairy for like a month or 6 weeks. (I don't remember exactly) and then switched to raw cow. I didn't see any difference in me or dd so we stuck with the (cheaper) raw cow. Now all this talk about dairy feeding the yeast has me wondering if any dairy is wise for us but too intimidated to eliminate it. Well today right before nap time dd told dh she was hungry so he got her a snack. A bunch of (pasturized, organic) provelone cheese. Come nap time and she was acting like she was reacting to a food. Restless, not able to sleep or relax even when she tried. Granted this happens at times with no known trigger but it seemed too coincidental. So, I'm going to cut out all dairy for a couple of days and see what happens. We are going on a trip on Wed so if it doesn't make a difference in the next couple of days I'll put it back in and do a longer trial of taking it out once we get back home and settled. I don't need to add more stress to my life than is necessary. I did just find out that my sil recently cut out all dairy for my nephew and it had a positive impact the first day so hopefully it will be that clear for us. Not that I want to eliminate dairy but I have had the sense that dd was reacting to something and I didn't know what.

Also, as some of you know we had a less than ideal birth. The important part is that dd was taken to the nicu and we were kept from holding her for the first 36 hours of her life. I have had a sense that this was also an important issue that needed healing for us. Toward that end we did a special bath yesterday. At the begining of the bath the woman doing it took our temps and then again at the end of the whole process (bath plus laying down for a while wrapped up in blankets) My temp went up, as expected, but dd's went down. The woman doing it said that a drop in temp usually means that the person is releasing something, esp inflamation. (releasing instead of processing, the bath is supposed to encourage you to process the things that are causing your physical symptoms, basically, I think....) We did it together and while it is too soon to say if it is making a change in us I am thinking that it is working on me in interesting ways and God help the person who crosses me today.







I have realized today that my biggest regret about dd's birth is all the ways that I didn't stand up and speak my mind and instead acted like a good patient in hopes that they would leave us alone and get us out of there faster. I needed to stand up for me and my baby but something stopped me. Well here I am 2.5 years later and I think I am finally finding my voice again. I'm a bit nervous about this upcomming trip becasue my outspokenness has been the greatest source of conflict between me and my mother over the years but one way or another we will survive.

Patty, the bath sounds awesome. I hope it opens up a new pathway to healing for you all.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Okay, I have an OT update of my own to share. I'm so excited I just have to share.

We're hiring an Au Pair. We talked about it almost a year ago and didn't do it and now finally, after one too many breakdowns on my part, dh said, "let's just do it."

Trying to heal a family, cook SCD, NT style for EVERY meal, keep up a house and chase two toddlers is stressful enough during the day without adding to it the fact that *I have not had a sleep stretch longer than 3 1/2 hours in 16 months - - and the average stretch for dd is 2 1/2*. Okay, to be completely truthful, dd *has* slept longer than that perhaps 5 times in her lifetime. I can't keep up anymore. Something had to give.

I'm excited about it now after letting it sink in for a few days. If I don't get some help I'm going to end up in the hospital. I don't want my family to fall apart. (Or myself or my marriage for that matter!) If I were not eating so healthfully, I know I'd have gotten sick by now, I'm so run down. Thankfully, the nutrition is keeping me going.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Okay, I have an OT update of my own to share. I'm so excited I just have to share.

We're hiring an Au Pair. We talked about it almost a year ago and didn't do it and now finally, after one too many breakdowns on my part, dh said, "let's just do it."

Trying to heal a family, cook SCD, NT style for EVERY meal, keep up a house and chase two toddlers is stressful enough during the day without adding to it the fact that *I have not had a sleep stretch longer than 3 1/2 hours in 16 months - - and the average stretch for dd is 2 1/2*. Okay, to be completely truthful, dd *has* slept longer than that perhaps 5 times in her lifetime. I can't keep up anymore. Something had to give.

I'm excited about it now after letting it sink in for a few days. If I don't get some help I'm going to end up in the hospital. I don't want my family to fall apart. (Or myself or my marriage for that matter!) If I were not eating so healthfully, I know I'd have gotten sick by now, I'm so run down. Thankfully, the nutrition is keeping me going.









Fantastic! You must be a superwoman to have gone this long with that little sleep and care for 2 little ones and spend the day in the kitchen cooking from scratch. When does she arrive???


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I've read that you need to do vitamin C to 80-90% of bowel tolerance for it to be effective for chronic health problems, so I'm trying to get to bowel tolerance now. Right now I'm doing 25 grams a day, and it has given me a ton of gas, but definitely not to bowel tolerance yet. I guess I'll up it to 30 grams in the next day or two and see what happens.

You might actually look into this anti-candida diet, because it's supposed to be good for healing all sorts of other things and not just candida. You can do a search for "optimal diet", which is what it's based on--some Polish doctor healed lots of people from all sorts of diseases using this diet. I think it might allow a few foods that aren't allowed on the anti-candida diet.

How do you take your sodium ascorbate powder? I usually dump mine in some food but if I want to try taking it every half hour I don't want to have to eat that often.

What kind of bioflavonoids do you take? If I have to avoid fruits because of DS does this affect my brand choice?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
A few more questions:

1. Those of you using L. Reuteri, what was the brand? I just combed through the last few pages but couldn't find it. And what differences are you seeing in yourselves/your DC from it? And finally, how exactly do you culture it in yogurt?

2. My partner and I have been on enzymes for a bit over a week. Neither of us experienced any real die-off, except perhaps one sleepless night for me. My partner is the one who seems to have more gut issues, though she saw little die-off. Does this mean they are not necessary? Also, what changes should we be looking for? I was hoping they'd help with my constant exhaustion and that they would help her general digestion, absorption of nutrients, etc.

3. How much CLO/Omega 3s for a 3yo? I just found a form in which he can tolerate them........(it's a pudding-kind of preparation from Whole Foods, although not their brand -- sugar free and artificial sweetener free too!)

Thanks!
megin

1. Nature's Way L. Reuteri. I just dumped about 5-6 caplets in the yogurt starter that I used (dannon plain). I had regular BM's







. I have recently had to give up all dairy and so I am having a harder time getting as much probiotic in me.

2. Some people will not see any bad reactions when starting enzymes. See here for more info on enzymes. http://www.enzymestuff.com/discussionadjustments.htm

3. Not sure about CLO for 3 yo


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Now that I am off dairy completely I am wondering if I can take high vitamin butter oil?
http://www.greenpasture.org/products/butter_oil

It is a little expensive to try and see if we a reaction.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksenia*
My sister has been TTC#1 for six months (she's 36 yo and getting anxious about it) and definitely has gut issues (pretty bad digestive problems and was bulemic 15 years ago). She believes that she is ovulating normally but she doesn't get "eggwhite" cervical fluid. Any specific gut-fertility links that she should be aware of? I have already given her lots of general gut healing info...

Not that I can recall but she might want to look into Traditional Diets especially the types of fats she eats effect hormone production:

Women's Health section at WAPF with articles at bottom of page re: fertility
http://www.westonaprice.org/women/index.html

Know Your Fats
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/index.html

Vitamin A Saga
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...aminasaga.html

Vitamin A for Fetal Development
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyour...n-a-fetal.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Now that I am off dairy completely I am wondering if I can take high vitamin butter oil?
http://www.greenpasture.org/products/butter_oil

It is a little expensive to try and see if we a reaction.

Why are you off completely? Ghee would be similar (casein and lactose free) if you just want to try.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
A few more questions:

1. Those of you using L. Reuteri, what was the brand? I just combed through the last few pages but couldn't find it. And what differences are you seeing in yourselves/your DC from it? And finally, how exactly do you culture it in yogurt?

2. My partner and I have been on enzymes for a bit over a week. Neither of us experienced any real die-off, except perhaps one sleepless night for me. My partner is the one who seems to have more gut issues, though she saw little die-off. Does this mean they are not necessary? Also, what changes should we be looking for? I was hoping they'd help with my constant exhaustion and that they would help her general digestion, absorption of nutrients, etc.

3. How much CLO/Omega 3s for a 3yo? I just found a form in which he can tolerate them........(it's a pudding-kind of preparation from Whole Foods, although not their brand -- sugar free and artificial sweetener free too!)

Thanks!
megin

1. Nature's Way Reuteri the capsules not the powder in jar. I just culture several capsules in with our regular yogurt starter.

2. Give it more time, are you taking between meals? That is what triggers die off. With meals will do everything else you listed.

3. See cod liver oil recs here.
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html
That product... Coromega? doesn't have vit. A and D and personally I would not take it.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
*caedmyn* -- this may not be manageable, but vit c has a half life of about 30 minutes. If you spread your doses out every hour, you'll absorb more. One gram an hour would work but then you obviously wouldn't get 25 grams in. Try two grams an hour and see what happens. Depending on how you are taking it now, you're probably not absorbing a lot of the 25 grams.

I'm doing 5 grams 5x/day right now. I know it would be better to take it more often, I'm just not sure I can remember. It seems I already have six million things to remember every day, between supplements, eating certain foods, more supplements, drinking herbal teas, probiotics







: Maybe I'll set the oven timer. Boy this really does have to be an obsession, doesn't it!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
How do you take your sodium ascorbate powder? I usually dump mine in some food but if I want to try taking it every half hour I don't want to have to eat that often.

What kind of bioflavonoids do you take? If I have to avoid fruits because of DS does this affect my brand choice?

I mix it with a little water. I bought NOW brand bioflovonoids. They're supposed to be okay even though they are from citrus.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Ok, more dumb questions ahead:

1. Sodium ascorbate? What is ascorbic acid? Now I cant remember which Bee recommends (Cademyn?). I take 3000mg/day "vit. C crystals" which is a white powder from the co-op that has 3600mg vit C/tsp (and is $35/lb







: ). I know Ive read about the differences in Vit C sources but didnt take notes - I WILL!









2. 1g = 1000mg yes


Ascorbic acid is the normal/common form of vitamin C. Bee recommends sodium ascorbate, although she says to buy ascorbic acid and mix it with baking soda. What's your taking is ascorbic acid I'm sure. I've only found sodium ascorbate at a few stores, even most health food stores don't carry it. It's cheapest online, anyhow, at iherb.com or vitacost.com


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Cademyn - ...and you're taking 25g!? Wow. Is "bowel tolerance" when you take a dose and have to run to the loo shortly thereafter? And in terms of "healing" (being at 80-90% bowel tolerance) what do you mean? All of the things vit C is supposed to be good for only really happnes at that level? BTW, the ketchup is awesome, and now so is the broth









Any of you *Yogurt Queens* - do you all use yogurt makers? (I know jane doesnt). Im trying to figure out how to keep my culturing batch at 100-110 and until I do I cant make any. How do you all do it? And why is everyone (so it seems) on this reuteri kick now?

Goat Milk - it is supposed to be easier to digest than cow, but I think ds's intolerance to cow is a lactose thing, so should i just get lactose free or give him lactse. He can do all dairy but milk - causes diarrhea => flaming bottom. We've been doing unsweetened soy, but now that I know what I do, Im trying to get off that....

Thanks!!


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Do you have a ketchup recipe? I'd love it if you share. i find commercial ketchup too sweet.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Cademyn - ...and you're taking 25g!? Wow. Is "bowel tolerance" when you take a dose and have to run to the loo shortly thereafter? And in terms of "healing" (being at 80-90% bowel tolerance) what do you mean? All of the things vit C is supposed to be good for only really happnes at that level? BTW, the ketchup is awesome, and now so is the broth









Any of you *Yogurt Queens* - do you all use yogurt makers? (I know jane doesnt). Im trying to figure out how to keep my culturing batch at 100-110 and until I do I cant make any. How do you all do it? And why is everyone (so it seems) on this reuteri kick now?

Goat Milk - it is supposed to be easier to digest than cow, but I think ds's intolerance to cow is a lactose thing, so should i just get lactose free or give him lactse. He can do all dairy but milk - causes diarrhea => flaming bottom. We've been doing unsweetened soy, but now that I know what I do, Im trying to get off that....

Thanks!!

Yes that's bowel tolerance. You don't have to take vitamin C to bowel tolerance to get benefits from it, but I have read that for best results in treating chronic or acute conditions it needs to be taken in amounts of 80-90% of bowel tolerance.

If your DS just has a lactose issue, 24 hr cow yogurt should be okay, because all the lactose is supposed to be broken down when it is cultured for that long.

If you still have the ketchup recipe will you post it? I have to make some more today and I've forgotten how I made the last batch!


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
1. Nature's Way Reuteri the capsules not the powder in jar. I just culture several capsules in with our regular yogurt starter.

2. Give it more time, are you taking between meals? That is what triggers die off. With meals will do everything else you listed.

3. See cod liver oil recs here.
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html
That product... Coromega? doesn't have vit. A and D and personally I would not take it.

Thanks for the info.

In terms of the Coromega, why wouldn't you use it? If DS got Vit. A and D through another source (like a multi), would that help? I really want to get some of these oils into him and he absolutely refuses to take them straight and will drink very little of anything we mix them into like smoothies. His sensory eating issues really are getting in the way. I saw chewable tabs, but it seemed that absorption for those was much worse -- are they actually good? Help!

Thanks!
megin


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
SCD has never said to wean, breastmilk is the exception. It's really too bad that this point is not discussed more.

The lactose in BM is different kind than cow's milk lactose. It feeds good bacteria, that is what it's designed to do.

I weaned but not for SCD, we just went to it because that was where I was in my research and his gut went downhill after that. Weaning was stupid, stupid, stupid. I thought I was the cause of all his ills, and essentially I was, but my BM was more than making up for that.

thank you sooo much for sharing this. although i am still sometimes nursing a 3yo, i have considered weaning ds2 who is 19mths and has a ton of food allergies/intolerances (i struggle with differentiating sometimes). both the outside pressure from 'the family' and my own concerns of whether or not i am helping or hurting him have caused me to consider weaning...although my instict has always said NURSE!

although i do not post as often as i'd like, the support from the moms on this thread has offered me amazing strength and knowledge.
thank you


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Any of you *Yogurt Queens* - do you all use yogurt makers? (I know jane doesnt). Im trying to figure out how to keep my culturing batch at 100-110 and until I do I cant make any. How do you all do it? And why is everyone (so it seems) on this reuteri kick now?

Thanks!!

First time I've thought of myself as a yogurt queen.








Dh made me a yogurt maker very simply: We got a cheap sytrofoam cooler, a light fixture, small 75 watt bulb and put a hole in the top of the cooler, inserted the lightbulb and voila! Instant yogurt maker. I have to keep the lid slighlty cracked to maintain 110 degrees but it works awesome. You can use the oven method but no matter what I tried I couldn't get my oven to maintain the temp.

Re: reuteri
AFter reading the Power of Probiotics thread I decided to check retueri out. From the things I read I had a suspicion that it would help dd1 w/her mushy poops and that's what it did. (I had also just gotten her CDSA results back before this which showed she had zero *good* bacteria in her gut so I thought, it couldn't hurt to add some more.)


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Haven't read today but I had to share.

I had a TCM appointment with a fertility specalist today. (As of today we are officially battleing IF







) Anyhow. She said that the main disfuncting she could find was in my spleen and that makes a ton of sense for the candidia issue. That spleen means stagnation and this candidia is stagnated in my gut. Sooo... She did some acu for my spleen and I'll be going back regularly to get it balanced. After hearing about my last pg she thinks it is obvious that this spleen issue isn't a new one for me.

Anyhow, yet another approach that might just help get this all sorted out.

Oh and I think we are off dairy, at least for the short term.







: DD is sleeping much better w/o dairy in her system. I'm not happy but trying to accept it. Of course now I have all this raw milk sitting in my fridge and I'm not sure what to do with it... I plan to try raw milk yogurt again in a few weeks to see how that goes but in the meantime...


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Ascorbic acid is the normal/common form of vitamin C. Bee recommends sodium ascorbate, although she says to buy ascorbic acid and mix it with baking soda. What's your taking is ascorbic acid I'm sure. I've only found sodium ascorbate at a few stores, even most health food stores don't carry it. It's cheapest online, anyhow, at iherb.com or vitacost.com

What ratio? I already had some ascorbic acid when I read it wasn't best.

I also recently got some calcium ascorbate. How is that? (besides tasting like butt)


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
What ratio? I already had some ascorbic acid when I read it wasn't best.

I also recently got some calcium ascorbate. How is that? (besides tasting like butt)

1:1 ascorbic acid & baking soda

I don't know anything about calcium ascorbate.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

caedmyn, did you ever do the vit c flush? was just reading about it on the candidasupport page.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
caedmyn, did you ever do the vit c flush? was just reading about it on the candidasupport page.

I've done 3...they seem to help normalize my digestion--this diet made me a little constipated. The 3rd one I did gave me a horrible stomach ache for hours (gas & bloating I think) so I'm not so keen on doing another one. Let's see...the first one I did took me 24 grams to bowel tolerance, second one was 28 grams, third was 36 grams. Why there was so much variation there I have no idea.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I got dd2's CDSA results today. She does NOT have a yeast issue.








I didn't think she did but then I saw little pieces of undigested grapes that I thought *might* be yeasties and freaked out . . . .She has no signs of it anyway and never did. So....I don't think I'll be doing the candida diet.

She has *NO* beneficial bacteria. DD1's results showed the same exact thing.







I'm starting to wonder if our water is so highly chlorinated that it's killing off everything I try to put in. (We onlyhave a refrigerator filter and a Brita one on the kitchen faucet.) I don't know what else could explain this.

I'll post more results later after I've studied a bit.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

*Ketchup* - (courtesy of Cademyn)

12oz tomato paste (the better quality, the better. I use a brand in a 7 oz jar called bionature organic tomato paste. It is more $$$ [isnt it ALL!!] but so much yummer. Next time I will use 14 oz since Im eating so much)

2 T. rejuvelac liquid (from cabbage rejuvelac: blend 3 C cabbage and 1 3/4 C pure h2o in blender, put in jar for 3 days, strain liquid. Use 1/4C as starter for next batch adding 1 1/2 c h2o this time, 3c cabbage, and leave for 24 hrs...)

1 1/2 tsp sea salt

1-2 cloves garlic

1/8 tsp cayenne

1/4c pure h2o

(I added some onion powder and celery salt too..)

Mix thoroughly and put in a jar for 2 days, then refrigerate

Cademyn adds a little stevia to it with each use, but I find it just right without...

What occured to me in making this is that rejuvelac liquid could take the place of vinegar in a lot of recipes (duh). I may try making mustard with it....


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Why are you off completely? Ghee would be similar (casein and lactose free) if you just want to try.

Thanks Jane, I will get some Ghee. I tried goat yogurt for a couple of weeks and it made me really bloated. So now I am trying no dairy to see if that helps us. I figure I'll give it a month (two weeks to get out of my system, 2 weeks for his.) I'll re-evaluate then. I really miss the cow yogurt







. I am making fermented veggies but it is hard to keep up with making them. They don't seem to do as good of a job as the yogurt at keeping me regular. I had itchy eyes when I was eating the goat yogurt, this did not happen with cow yogurt. Also since I stopped dairy DS has stopped having times where he would get 'wild', he would flail around and get really frustrated.

I guess the next step is to start some testing? I may start at the kinesiologist. I have not asked yet if he can do muscle testing on an infant.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

DS was recently on antibiotics for a bunch of gut stuff. Based on recs here, we put him on high doses of Vit. C to help flush out his system. He's been off the atbx for a few weeks now and has continued on the C. Should we keep him on it, cut down, stop?

Also, I want to start him on enzymes, so if/when I do, it seems like he should be on the C again to help with die-off, etc, yes?

Thanks!
megin


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Oh and I think we are off dairy, at least for the short term.







: DD is sleeping much better w/o dairy in her system. I'm not happy but trying to accept it. Of course now I have all this raw milk sitting in my fridge and I'm not sure what to do with it... I plan to try raw milk yogurt again in a few weeks to see how that goes but in the meantime...

I remember reading somewhere here that the yogurt will keep for 3 weeks. Maybe you could make it and set it in the back of the fridge and then try again? Or maybe that is not enough time off dairy, but it is a shame not to use it once you get it!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I'm starting to wonder if our water is so highly chlorinated that it's killing off everything I try to put in. (We onlyhave a refrigerator filter and a Brita one on the kitchen faucet.) I don't know what else could explain this.

I'll post more results later after I've studied a bit.

we had a reverse osmosis sytem installed not to long ago. ~$350 from Lowe's but the guy who installed it sells and installs a competing system - well, not really competing. Lowe's sells the Krystal Pure system (or something like that) - the Ford of RO systems. the contract installer sells Ionics systems - the Cadillac of RO systems ($700 or so?).

anyhooo... Ionics dude says that Brita and Pur filter systems are crap. they become contaminated with - tada - microbes the second you start using them. (could those microbes be messing with dc's gut flora?)

oh yeah, the Ionics dude also does whole house filtration systems which, when combined with the RO system, will get 95% of the crap out of municipal water. dh has me squirreling away our spare change to save up for one of these babies - he hates our water. it's drawn from an Army Corps of Engineer-made reservoir and oftentimes smells/tastes like chlorinated lake water. blech.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Thanks Jane, I will get some Ghee. I tried goat yogurt for a couple of weeks and it made me really bloated. So now I am trying no dairy to see if that helps us. I figure I'll give it a month (two weeks to get out of my system, 2 weeks for his.) I'll re-evaluate then. I really miss the cow yogurt







. I am making fermented veggies but it is hard to keep up with making them. They don't seem to do as good of a job as the yogurt at keeping me regular. I had itchy eyes when I was eating the goat yogurt, this did not happen with cow yogurt. Also since I stopped dairy DS has stopped having times where he would get 'wild', he would flail around and get really frustrated.

I guess the next step is to start some testing? I may start at the kinesiologist. I have not asked yet if he can do muscle testing on an infant.

cow's milk (pasteurized, anyway) gives me sneezy runny nose symptoms even now that i think i've got my gut issues mostly under control. goat milk did the same a few months ago - haven't revisited it lately. i'm too chicken to try raw cow's milk. haven't been near cheese or uncultured butter lately. homegrown kefir (and everything derived from it) or high quality commercial yogurt (i'm dangerous making my own yogurt!) seem to be the only forms of cow's milk i can tolerate. just re-affirms a suspicion that i've always had a dairy allergy since - well, forever. it feels odd to have a clear head. until last week i was missing cheese - then i made kefir sourdough pizza with kefir cheese. gonna try making kefir butter and kefir ice cream next.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
1:1 ascorbic acid & baking soda

I don't know anything about calcium ascorbate.

calcium ascorbate (aka "Ester-C") should be avoided - it will mess up your calcium levels.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
Now that I am re-reading it, I am thinking the expeller pressed process means that it is refined




























. Is this true? Man, I was really excited because it would save me $4 a jar. Ugh.









If CO doesn't say *unrefined* or *virgin* on it, then it is almost certainly refined.

Expeller pressed is good, it is means that the oil was pressed out, not chemically extracted. It has nothing to do with refining. Refining is related to the high temps to which the oil is heated


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I am so discouraged...DD was up about every hour last night and decided she was done sleeping at 4:30. I do not know what to do with her. The thought of her sleeping this poorly until whenever she magically decides to start sleeping better is very depressing. I really want a couple more kids, too, but the thought of having to go through this again...I don't know if I can do it.


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

I can so, completely and totally relate. It is so hard not to get a good night's sleep and it is utterly frustrating not to know how to change the "problem". I say problem because it's a problem for mom to be constantly sleep deprived. Sorry you are going through this. I wish I had a magic answer for you but despite having BTDT, nothing has been the "it" that gets him sleeping. Hang in there. It does get better and it will pass. Speaking of kids, I was planning on TTC next month but with all these nutritional issues and ds *still* not being a great sleeper, I am putting it off until next year. You are young! Biologically speaking, you've got time.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I am so discouraged...DD was up about every hour last night and decided she was done sleeping at 4:30. I do not know what to do with her. The thought of her sleeping this poorly until whenever she magically decides to start sleeping better is very depressing. I really want a couple more kids, too, but the thought of having to go through this again...I don't know if I can do it.

Caring for two when you are that sleep deprived is not only *extremely* difficult, it's dangerous too.

During my darkest times w/sleep deprivation I was hallucinating (hearing and seeing things), dh would come home and find me just lying on the floor (awake but barely able to move), a couple times many months ago I actually fell asleep while the girls were playing. NOT safe. If I allow my body to sit for a moment and rest, I fall asleep instantly. That's why I'm almost always in constant motion. It seems counterproductive but I do it for survival.

If I were you I would definitely not ttc right now for many reasons. One, your body needs to be at its best for the new babe. Secondly, if you think you're not sleeping now, just wait til you get pg. AND then have a newborn!

Sorry to sound so negative but I don't want anyone else experiencing what's been happening to me.

Thankfully, I've started chelating dd (her sleep issues are due to metal toxicity) and she's slowly improving, though I don't want to get used to it yk?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Caring for two when you are that sleep deprived is not only *extremely* difficult, it's dangerous too.

During my darkest times w/sleep deprivation I was hallucinating (hearing and seeing things), dh would come home and find me just lying on the floor (awake but barely able to move), a couple times many months ago I actually fell asleep while the girls were playing. NOT safe. If I allow my body to sit for a moment and rest, I fall asleep instantly. That's why I'm almost always in constant motion. It seems counterproductive but I do it for survival.

If I were you I would definitely not ttc right now for many reasons. One, your body needs to be at its best for the new babe. Secondly, if you think you're not sleeping now, just wait til you get pg. AND then have a newborn!

Sorry to sound so negative but I don't want anyone else experiencing what's been happening to me.

Thankfully, I've started chelating dd (her sleep issues are due to metal toxicity) and she's slowly improving, though I don't want to get used to it yk?

Oh don't worry I am NOT TTC right now (I just like to obsessively plan for the future). Although we're using NFP so it could happen. But with DH getting deployed in January I have no desire to birth and try to parent a newborn alone, plus I don't want to have another child to "fix".

I am going to test my DD for mercury at some point--I wonder if her sleep issues are somehow related to that as I do have a ton of fillings. But she slept fine until 5 months, so I don't know if something like that could just start to affect her all of a sudden with nothing like vaxes or antibiotics added to mess up her system further.


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## Logansmom (Jan 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I am so discouraged...DD was up about every hour last night and decided she was done sleeping at 4:30. I do not know what to do with her. The thought of her sleeping this poorly until whenever she magically decides to start sleeping better is very depressing. I really want a couple more kids, too, but the thought of having to go through this again...I don't know if I can do it.

I completely know where you are coming from, we are in the same boat here. Our DS has never been a good sleeper from birth and is worse now than when he was an infant. This is why we haven't had any more kids yet too. I don't think I could be a very good mom right now to another one. All my energy goes into trying to get DS healthy. Everything will be SO worth it though when he is happy and healthy again. Prayers coming your way.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

as if we didn't have enough to worry about...

a friend of mine pointed out that many of these supplements we're taking are capsules - capsules that likely contain phthalates (endocrine disruptors). and also that the plastic bottles containing certain supplements may also have phthalates. sheesh, if they can't get the phthalates directly into the kids (through teething and other toys), then they'll go in through breastfeeding mamas.

i'm not sure if this applies also to gel capsules as well.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie*
If CO doesn't say *unrefined* or *virgin* on it, then it is almost certainly refined.

Expeller pressed is good, it is means that the oil was pressed out, not chemically extracted. It has nothing to do with refining. Refining is related to the high temps to which the oil is heated

I am still so confused. On this website http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals....oconut-oil.htm they sell two versions that are virgin and one that is not. The one that is not virgin is expeller pressed and they say it is refined. After it is pressed it is run through diatomaceous earth and steam distilled. What part of the process is the refining? So, for gut healing should only virgin oils be used? Can the less coconutty tasting ones (that I guess have to be refined somehow) be used at all?


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## lllmomma (Sep 1, 2003)

I can empathize w/ the no sleep as dd was the same until about 3 1/2. A rare foods rotation strict diet (on top of all the supplements







: ) was finally the "magic answer" that I had been looking for









Oh, I also extreme baby-proofed one room, shut the gate, put on baby einstein or similar and passed out in the floor a few minutes when really beat...

Hi bluets!


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
as if we didn't have enough to worry about...

a friend of mine pointed out that many of these supplements we're taking are capsules - capsules that likely contain phthalates (endocrine disruptors). and also that the plastic bottles containing certain supplements may also have phthalates. sheesh, if they can't get the phthalates directly into the kids (through teething and other toys), then they'll go in through breastfeeding mamas.

i'm not sure if this applies also to gel capsules as well.

How is it that the capsules would contain phthalates? They're not plastic


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## lllmomma (Sep 1, 2003)

Hi Chasmyn...I remember you from the Vancouver Tribe...I read the "Mighty Quinn" story and was so moved....


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Hi,

I started making water kefir about 2-3 weeks ago. I've noticed that since we started drinking it we seem much worse off. Evan has become even more difficult that he was, and my patience is very reduced. I feel like we just clash all day long, every day. We're in a pretty rough place right now. Sometimes it gets really bad. I was wondering if this could be a die-off from the kefir that just keeps going on and on, or could we both be reacting to something else in it? I heard that there can be naturally occuring glutamates in kefir from the fermentation - could we both be sensitive to those ? If this is die-off, we'll keep using it, but if it's something else, maybe we should stop ?

Thanks,

Linda


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Caedmyn: So, why is canned tomato paste OK on the anticandida diet if it's probably got added sugar in it?

Annikate: how did you discover the metal toxicity issues?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
So, why is canned tomato paste OK on the anticandida diet if it's probably got added sugar in it?

I'm guessing Bee's never heard that they may add sugar in processing...and I for one am not going to mention it!


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## ccasanova (Dec 18, 2003)

hi mamas, I have read the book and was getting ready to start this diet soon. I nor my children have any of the chronic illnesses for which the diet was created, but we all do have little things here and there that I think the diet might help. Especially with making sure that our digestive tracts are assimilating nutrients the best possible. Anyways, today at Whole Foods, a woman working there started telling me about "The Master Cleanser" and how she felt so great after doing it. So, since the book was only 6.50 I picked it up and started reading it today. (It sounds like a gread occasionall cleanser diet) In the book, the author writes about honey and how it should never be used internally. I am quoting the book: "Just as with alcohol, honey, being predigested, enters the blood directly, raising the sugar content very rapidly above normal. To correct this, the pancreas must produce insulin immidiately or possible death can occur. More insulin then nessasary is likely to be produced, and the blood sugar level then drops below normal. This can produce blackout spells and even death if it goes too low. When blood sugar is below normal the person will feel depressed. The regular use of honey can create constant imbalances which will in turn adversely affect the normal function of the liver, pancreas, and spleen. Hypoglycemia and hyperglycemia are the results of the use of unbalanced sugars." Which the author states honey is an unbalanced sugar. He states that fruit, vegetables, maple syrup and cane juice all have balanced sugars and no dangerous side effects. So what I wanted to know is if anyone has felt funny while being on this diet and having nothing but honey to sweeten all foods. This is another case of different authors having different opinions on the safety of the same food. do you think that honey if used in excess in a healthy person can cause problems but in an individual with gut problems it is ok, because the gut has a chance to heal since the honey does go straight to the blood instead of the gut having to digest it? He did not mention if he is talking about raw or pasturized honey, but I am assuming he is writing about both. What do you think?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
Hi,

I started making water kefir about 2-3 weeks ago. I've noticed that since we started drinking it we seem much worse off. Evan has become even more difficult that he was, and my patience is very reduced. I feel like we just clash all day long, every day. We're in a pretty rough place right now. Sometimes it gets really bad. I was wondering if this could be a die-off from the kefir that just keeps going on and on, or could we both be reacting to something else in it? I heard that there can be naturally occuring glutamates in kefir from the fermentation - could we both be sensitive to those ? If this is die-off, we'll keep using it, but if it's something else, maybe we should stop ?

Thanks,

Linda

It could be die-off...are you doing anything to help reduce die-off (lots of vitamin C or epsom salt baths)? Or could you guys possibly be reacting to whatever sugar is left in the water kefir? You could try reducing the amount you're drinking and gradually increasing it to see if that helps.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ccasanova*
I am quoting the book: "Just as with alcohol, honey, being predigested, enters the blood directly, raising the sugar content very rapidly above normal. To correct this, the pancreas must produce insulin immidiately or possible death can occur. More insulin then nessasary is likely to be produced, and the blood sugar level then drops below normal. This can produce blackout spells and even death if it goes too low. When blood sugar is below normal the person will feel depressed. The regular use of honey can create constant imbalances which will in turn adversely affect the normal function of the liver, pancreas, and spleen. Hypoglycemia and hyperglycemia are the results of the use of unbalanced sugars." Which the author states honey is an unbalanced sugar. He states that fruit, vegetables, maple syrup and cane juice all have balanced sugars and no dangerous side effects.

I think too much of any sugar will cause hypoglycemia. I think most of his statements about honey are bunk...people have been using honey as a sweetner/food for thousands of years and doing just fine. Sure, eating 1/2 a cup of honey in a sitting is probably going to mess up your blood sugar, but so is eating half a cup of maple syrup or cane juice, or eating too much fruit at once without fats or proteins to slow the absorption of the fructose. I'm not sure consuming a lot of honey on the SCD or any other diet is really healthy, but in small amounts I think it is fine as a sweetener.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
How is it that the capsules would contain phthalates? They're not plastic









they may not be plastic but they still can contain plasticizers (i.e., phthalates). the Europeans have banned this stuff based on US science - what will it take for the US to ban the stuff?

http://www.ehponline.org/members/2004/6804/6804.html
http://www.pharmcast.com/Patents/Yr2...Film021103.htm
http://www.pharmcast.com/Patents/Yr2...tion061201.htm

excerpt from this last one:

The capsule shell material can be a hydrophilic polymer, *gelatin being the preferred choice*. Other suitable capsule shell materials include starch, casein, chitosan, soya bean protein, safflower protein, alginates, gellan gum, carrageenan, xanthan gum, phtalated gelatin, succinated gelatin, cellulosephtalate-acetate, polyvinylacetate, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, polyvinylacetate-phthalate, polymerisates of acrylic or methacrylic esters or mixtures thereof. The *capsule shell material may furthermore contain from about 0 to about 40% pharmaceutically acceptable plasticizers based upon the weight* of the hydrophilic polymer. The plasticizers which may be employed can be selected from polyethylene glycol, glycerol, sorbitol, dioctyl-sodium sulfosuccinate, triethyl citrate, tributyl citrate, 1,2-propyleneglycol, mono-, di, or tri-acetates of glycerol or mixtures thereof.

.
.
.

The solid pharmaceutical dosage form according to the present invention also may comprise *a coating selected from cellacephate, polyvinyl acetate phthalate, methacrylic acid polymers, hypromellose phthalate, hydroxyalkyl methy cellulose phthalates or mixtures* thereof.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Thanks. We are not on the diet yet - I just got my coconut flour yesterday - as soon as I can get some baked goods going we will start. I've been making it without sugar - just juice.

Linda

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
It could be die-off...are you doing anything to help reduce die-off (lots of vitamin C or epsom salt baths)? Or could you guys possibly be reacting to whatever sugar is left in the water kefir? You could try reducing the amount you're drinking and gradually increasing it to see if that helps.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Hi Ladies,
Still going strong on SCD (4 months) and making small but steady improvements. I'm just past 9 weeks pregnant, and just got a phone call from my MW that I tested positive for GBS (Strep B) in my urine, and they want me to take 1 course of amoxicillin in the hopes that it will knock it out so that there is less a chance that I will test positive at 37-40 weeks. I'm skeptical that it will work out this way, but I'm still stuck making the difficult decision of taking an antibiotic when I'm trying to heal the gut. Is there any advice anyone can offer for if I decide to take the treatment, in terms of managing the damange? I'm currently taking 2 cups daily of goat/lactobacillus yogurt, and I'm considering trying a course of raw garlic treatment orally, since the urinary tract is what is colonized apparently.

I'm getting through SCD and pregnancy (oh, the agony....and the discipline!) with a lot of fruit, about 3-4 servings a day. I'm thinking I'll start to limit that as well. It looks like Strep B goes hand in hand with yeast conditions.....Any advice is appreciated.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Hi Ladies,
Still going strong on SCD (4 months) and making small but steady improvements. I'm just past 9 weeks pregnant, and just got a phone call from my MW that I tested positive for GBS (Strep B) in my urine, and they want me to take 1 course of amoxicillin in the hopes that it will knock it out so that there is less a chance that I will test positive at 37-40 weeks. I'm skeptical that it will work out this way, but I'm still stuck making the difficult decision of taking an antibiotic when I'm trying to heal the gut. Is there any advice anyone can offer for if I decide to take the treatment, in terms of managing the damange? I'm currently taking 2 cups daily of goat/lactobacillus yogurt, and I'm considering trying a course of raw garlic treatment orally, since the urinary tract is what is colonized apparently.

I'm getting through SCD and pregnancy (oh, the agony....and the discipline!) with a lot of fruit, about 3-4 servings a day. I'm thinking I'll start to limit that as well. It looks like Strep B goes hand in hand with yeast conditions.....Any advice is appreciated.

Yay Shanna! Congratulations on your pregnancy









I personally would absolutely not take antibiotics for Group B Strep. I don't know why they even test for it early in pregnancy--your status can easily change on its own at any time. And even if you do test positive at the end of your pregnancy and do NOT get antibiotics during labor, your baby has less than a 1% chance of contracting Group B strep (most countries in Europe don't even test for Group B Strep). Here's a link with information on Group B Strep, and some natural ways to treat it if you want. You can probably get more information on it if you post in the homebirth forum, also. http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/gbs.html


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Yay Shanna! Congratulations on your pregnancy









I personally would absolutely not take antibiotics for Group B Strep. I don't know why they even test for it early in pregnancy--your status can easily change on its own at any time. And even if you do test positive at the end of your pregnancy and do NOT get antibiotics during labor, your baby has less than a 1% chance of contracting Group B strep (most countries in Europe don't even test for Group B Strep). Here's a link with information on Group B Strep, and some natural ways to treat it if you want. You can probably get more information on it if you post in the homebirth forum, also. http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/gbs.html

I couldn't agree more. In fact, I opted out of testing when I was pg with Isadora because I knew I would not take abx unless we knew for sure the baby would be at risk.
I know GBS can be serious but I can't stand how they force mamas to take these abx (which clearly can lead to thrush and other assorted problems) when there isn't imminent danger. Grrr.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Congrats, Shanna! How exciting. And kudos to you for staying on SCD. Not an easy task, even not pregnant!

It seems strange to me that your midwife would test this early. My understanding is that they normally test at almost full term, if at all, because your status can change quickly. I second and third what the others have said already. I wasn't tested for either babe. With DD1, it wasn't yet madatory, or recommended, whatever, and with DD2, I opted not to since I didn't feel that I was at risk. I also didn't do the GD test either with DD2. Yea for homebirth and getting stressfree options!

Good luck.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Megin -- I would continue with the high doses of vit. C at least until he's gone through die-off, if not indefinitely. It really can help with healing, and detox.


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

ok so after trying different nut flours, I found out my ds's gets worse with nut flours, even after preparing NT style...

So, what can I use instead of nut flours on the SCD diet?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Hi nicholas mom, there really isn't an alternative to nut flours, especially not early on. Later, you can use beans for some things, like bean pancakes, and coconut flour, but I'm pretty sure early on only nut flour can be used in baked goods. For pancakes, you can just use bananas and eggs, or pureed veggies and eggs. If eggs are ok, that is.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

What about coconut flour ? That's what I'm planning to try, since I don't want to use nuts, and it's not really a nut...

Linda B.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicholas_mom*
ok so after trying different nut flours, I found out my ds's gets worse with nut flours, even after preparing NT style...

So, what can I use instead of nut flours on the SCD diet?


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lllmomma*
Hi Chasmyn...I remember you from the Vancouver Tribe...I read the "Mighty Quinn" story and was so moved....

Thank you. He was an amazing boy. I miss him every day.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
they may not be plastic but they still can contain plasticizers (i.e., phthalates). the Europeans have banned this stuff based on US science - what will it take for the US to ban the stuff?

http://www.ehponline.org/members/2004/6804/6804.html
http://www.pharmcast.com/Patents/Yr2...Film021103.htm
http://www.pharmcast.com/Patents/Yr2...tion061201.htm

excerpt from this last one:

The capsule shell material can be a hydrophilic polymer, *gelatin being the preferred choice*. Other suitable capsule shell materials include starch, casein, chitosan, soya bean protein, safflower protein, alginates, gellan gum, carrageenan, xanthan gum, phtalated gelatin, succinated gelatin, cellulosephtalate-acetate, polyvinylacetate, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, polyvinylacetate-phthalate, polymerisates of acrylic or methacrylic esters or mixtures thereof. The *capsule shell material may furthermore contain from about 0 to about 40% pharmaceutically acceptable plasticizers based upon the weight* of the hydrophilic polymer. The plasticizers which may be employed can be selected from polyethylene glycol, glycerol, sorbitol, dioctyl-sodium sulfosuccinate, triethyl citrate, tributyl citrate, 1,2-propyleneglycol, mono-, di, or tri-acetates of glycerol or mixtures thereof.

.
.
.

The solid pharmaceutical dosage form according to the present invention also may comprise *a coating selected from cellacephate, polyvinyl acetate phthalate, methacrylic acid polymers, hypromellose phthalate, hydroxyalkyl methy cellulose phthalates or mixtures* thereof.


AAAAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!









So how do we find out which ours are? Call the companies? And what do we use instead? Are there any brands without said plasticizers?







:







:







:


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## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

So I read the SCD book last night. What concerns me and has since I looked at the website is that most of what is recommended does not agree with my system. For example, all the nut flour. Nuts tend to make my symptoms flare and my life heck. Also, things that don't give me problems currently are on the no-no list.







: I am reticent to try SCD because it seems to fly in the face of my experiences to date. Literally almost every single food they mention as great is currently on my avoid list, and vice versa.

I checked out a second book, this one called _The New Eating Right for a Bad Gut_. I chuckled to myself as I picked up this book, thinking, "Watch, this one will say completely the opposite as SCD." Well, wouldn't ya know.... Where SCD says, "Never eat", ERBG says, "Have it a lot" and vice versa.

Can somebody give me some insight and/or advice on this? How come I have a deep feeling that I would simply die if I started the SCD given the foods they recommend? How come the other book is so completely in line with my symptoms and food experiences? If I just stick with what I'm doing (which is having a noticable effect on consistency of stool as well as other good benefits), am I dooming myself to just continually putting a bandaid on my symptoms via diet? Is the only way to cure/heal my gut via SCD?


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

I cant believe it! I just wrote a big post and it got eaten by...









So my update:

I thought that SCD wasn't working so I began seeking other resources. I found the metabolic typing diet, read about it - it said I am a mixed type but heavy on the protein. It said I could eat oatmeal! And sourdough bread!

So I tried some oatmeal. BAD! BAD OATMEAL! I was nauseuos, irritable, hostile, raging...no more oatmeal! It had been so long since I'd had it...

Then I tried the TJs dark sourdough rye, slathered in butter and cashew butter. Better, no side effects...except that I wanted some every day - I could see this becoming an issue - I get so addicted to carbs.

I also added some milk back in, raw of course, and only in my tea. Oh, I forgot! Milk =bad! Acne! The Big D!









Also I had tried some chinese, mexican, thai food interspersed here and there. Nope, not good for me









So I think that SCD was working - just maybe not as fast as I'd hoped. So. Back I go, only without dairy and with very little fruit (can eat bananas, apples, pears and small amounts of grapes and melon - oh, and avacadoes and tomatoes).

Sigh...







:







:







:


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

sierratahoe, when you say the other book you read is completely opposite, what scientific proof do they have that a) it relieves symptoms and b) that it leads to gut healing? Do they have long-term studies? Any research?

chasmyn, I ate grains, too, and regretted it. Sourdough rye caused chest pains, rice caused painful gas and constipation. Might have to do intro again!


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
So I read the SCD book last night. What concerns me and has since I looked at the website is that most of what is recommended does not agree with my system. For example, all the nut flour. Nuts tend to make my symptoms flare and my life heck. Also, things that don't give me problems currently are on the no-no list.







: I am reticent to try SCD because it seems to fly in the face of my experiences to date. Literally almost every single food they mention as great is currently on my avoid list, and vice versa.

I checked out a second book, this one called _The New Eating Right for a Bad Gut_. I chuckled to myself as I picked up this book, thinking, "Watch, this one will say completely the opposite as SCD." Well, wouldn't ya know.... Where SCD says, "Never eat", ERBG says, "Have it a lot" and vice versa.

Can somebody give me some insight and/or advice on this? How come I have a deep feeling that I would simply die if I started the SCD given the foods they recommend? How come the other book is so completely in line with my symptoms and food experiences? If I just stick with what I'm doing (which is having a noticable effect on consistency of stool as well as other good benefits), am I dooming myself to just continually putting a bandaid on my symptoms via diet? Is the only way to cure/heal my gut via SCD?

I could NEVER do the SCD either. For some people (especially those with yeast sensitivities) the SCD makes things worse, not better.
As for putting a bandaid on symptoms - I think a little yes and a little no. Have you had any diagnostic tests to see what your issues really are or are you just guessing based on symptoms? I'm not saying that you can't feel much much better on diet alone but sometimes there's a piece of the puzzle that isn't being addressed by a diet overhaul.
Have you ever looked at or heard of The Body Ecology Diet? I've found that to be one of the better protocols for yeast overgrowth issues, but it's not perfect. I still had to tweak that diet to make it fit for my circumstances.
Whatever happens, trust your body to tell you what's right or wrong for YOU. Use these diets as a guide only, not as rigid formulas that work the same way for everyone.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Been busy reading, see my new post in Cheat Sheet:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...0&postcount=21

I'm going to do experiments to determine my personal optidose of vit. C with both sodium ascorbate and natural acerola powder. Will be interesting whether the natural version is absorbed better as is claimed.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
calcium ascorbate (aka "Ester-C") should be avoided - it will mess up your calcium levels.

Yes completely avoided.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I've done 3...they seem to help normalize my digestion--this diet made me a little constipated. The 3rd one I did gave me a horrible stomach ache for hours (gas & bloating I think) so I'm not so keen on doing another one. Let's see...the first one I did took me 24 grams to bowel tolerance, second one was 28 grams, third was 36 grams. Why there was so much variation there I have no idea.

If you are experiencing die off it can vary this much as the toxins are eating it up as fast as you are getting it in.

Are you now taking at least 23-35 grams/day now? I'm telling you that book made a believer out of me!

Edited: oops, just saw you are doing 5 grams 5x/day. Are you seeing any changes from this? Reduced die off?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
Thanks for the info.

In terms of the Coromega, why wouldn't you use it? If DS got Vit. A and D through another source (like a multi), would that help? I really want to get some of these oils into him and he absolutely refuses to take them straight and will drink very little of anything we mix them into like smoothies. His sensory eating issues really are getting in the way. I saw chewable tabs, but it seemed that absorption for those was much worse -- are they actually good? Help!

Thanks!
megin

Hard to say! The multi is not going to give you natural vit. A from CLO... only the chemical stuff. And little ones should be on 5,000 iu of A and 500 iu of D according to WAPF which I know is not in any multi for kids. Maybe you can try this for now and work towards the good high vitamin stuff.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Been busy reading, see my new post in Cheat Sheet:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...0&postcount=21

I'm going to do experiments to determine my personal optidose of vit. C with both sodium ascorbate and natural acerola powder. Will be interesting whether the natural version is absorbed better as is claimed.

Excellent!! I'm going to be starting IV Vit C in a couple of weeks, hopefully the week after next







Does Vit C go through breastmilk??? And in what levels?

Been thinking about you Jane







Hope you are all well


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I wasn't going to post this here - or at all yet, but since you're here AmyD, I'm gonna go ahead.







:

Saw my new homeopath today, whom I love love love. Today, instead of bringing one of my dds I went. I've been feeling awful. Just like I'm barely hanging on. Been blaming it on sleep deprivation (which I'm sure doesn't help matters.)

She sees 4 different expressions of cancer in me. (She tested me using something similar to what you hold when doing applied kinesiology, only she uses software and a computer.) She told me the name of it, but, like everything else, it went into my brain but did not stay there.









Anyway, she said there is a scale from 1 to 12. 1 being when the cancer first begins to the 12 when it's at the end. I am at an 8. She said I'm right around the time that I should be seeing things showing up through diagnostic tests etc. and asked if I go for regular paps and other tests.

She gave me some remedies and I have to go back in 4 weeks.

Oh, probably of more consequence: My body is FULL of radiation.







The radiation is covering up anything else right now so she can't determine where this cancer expression is until some of the radiation comes out.

I'm really not surprised at all since, like I said, I've not been myself lately. I can't finish a complete sentence or a thought and don't even feel like the same person anymore.

I trust this doctor. She saw dd last week and gave her some remedies and a chelating agent and I've seen remarkable progress in ONLY ONE WEEK. Also, before we talked about any of this today, she tested me some and immediately asked if I had IBS. Funny as I told her nothing of my history.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Annikate, where did the radiation come from? Curious.

I would love to find a doctor like her! And wow on the cancers. I firmly believe in natural treatment for cancer, though. I so hope she caught it in time.


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## ccasanova (Dec 18, 2003)

I've never seen a homeopath so I've never heard about any of this. Do you mind me asking what does "expression of cancer mean"? Does it mean that if you don't make some health changes asap, a cancer will begin?


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Hmmmmm.

I have never heard of this 'expression of cancer' thing. I see my homeopath on Tuesday, would you like me to ask him? Can you e-mail your practitioner and get some more info, mainly what she used to test you and such. I'm sure that she would understand after dropping such a bomb that you're going to have questions.

But, what do you think about this? Do you think you have cancer? Do you feel like you have cancer? Everyone kept telling me I didn't have cancer, but, _I knew_ and treated myself accordingly. What is your gut telling you?

What remedies did you get?

And, the big question, how are you? I don't mean that in a hushed voice, and how are you??? kinda thing. But really and truly. Are you researching now or not dealing with it till you get more info, or what. Not to be nosy, just want to offer support wherever you are









Love to you,
Amy


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
What part of the process is the refining? So, for gut healing should only virgin oils be used? Can the less coconutty tasting ones (that I guess have to be refined somehow) be used at all?

This link explains it better than I ever could put into words. http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/bulkoil/bulkoil.php

Then after you read the general definitions of the oils, scroll down to coconut oil and see what it says for the two listed (one refined, one not). It gives a lot more of the specifics.

Personally, I like the coconutty flavor of unrefined oil (I usually take it plain on a spoon), so I wouldn't recommend refined. It's also closer to the *purest* form, but YMMV.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Hmmmmm.

I have never heard of this 'expression of cancer' thing. I see my homeopath on Tuesday, would you like me to ask him? Can you e-mail your practitioner and get some more info, mainly what she used to test you and such. I'm sure that she would understand after dropping such a bomb that you're going to have questions.

But, what do you think about this? Do you think you have cancer? Do you feel like you have cancer? Everyone kept telling me I didn't have cancer, but, _I knew_ and treated myself accordingly. What is your gut telling you?

What remedies did you get?

And, the big question, how are you? I don't mean that in a hushed voice, and how are you??? kinda thing. But really and truly. Are you researching now or not dealing with it till you get more info, or what. Not to be nosy, just want to offer support wherever you are









Love to you,
Amy

Apparently it's in my body but is not *showing itself* yet. That's why she kept saying that it's about the time that it should start showing up on tests etc.

My gut feeling is that I'm fine - - I'm just exhausted. I can't think straight. I know I also have metal toxicity. Everything I read about metal toxicity points to the symptoms I'm having. I do feel that the remedies she's giving me PLUS chelating will *fix* me.

I'll list the remedies I'm taking later (I got a SACK FULL!)







My babe is sleeping now and I don't want to wake her.







I am going to start taking NCD drops though. Do you know about these Amy? If not, pm me.

YK, over this past year and 1/2 I've been through so many emotions and I've been waiting for the *lesson* to be revealed, yk? Well, one thing I did discover yesterday is that my baby is NOT the cause of my problems like I thought she was.







I know that probably didn't come out right. What I mean is that I feel like crap and I've been blaming the whole thing on sleep deprivation. Now I know that it's not ALL related to that. Maybe my little one was brought to me to heal *me*? Maybe that's the lesson.

No telling about the radiation: x-rays? ultrasounds? I have a bad feeling about an old microwave I had - - it used to make this kind of buzzing noise and it's at head level - - built up above my counters. I used to always *feel* that that thing was not safe.









FWIW, I've not used my microwave in many many weeks, ironically.

I'm going to google radiation exposure and see what else could have caused this.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Congrats, Shanna! How exciting. And kudos to you for staying on SCD. Not an easy task, even not pregnant!

It seems strange to me that your midwife would test this early. My understanding is that they normally test at almost full term, if at all, because your status can change quickly. I second and third what the others have said already. I wasn't tested for either babe. With DD1, it wasn't yet madatory, or recommended, whatever, and with DD2, I opted not to since I didn't feel that I was at risk. I also didn't do the GD test either with DD2. Yea for homebirth and getting stressfree options!

Good luck.

Thanks for all of the advice - they've really sucked me into feeling like a bad mommy for not wanting to do the antibiotics. I'm not sure either why she tested me for Strep B, though I do know that it is a much different situation when your bladder is colonized versus your vagina. I'm trying some natural remedies and allowing her to retest before we decide what to do. But we're planning to transfer to a birth center MW once we make it to the second trimester







:, and I'll be curious to see what her take is. Aviva Jill Romm has some excellent suggestions, and I'm hoping the new MW has some experience with this. A 1% chance of sepsis in my baby has me a little....uncomfortable.

Thanks for the encouragement on SCD during pregnancy. People are giving me a hard time, thinking they can will my body into doing well on grains. It's not optimal to swear off complex carbs during pg, but I don't think they understand just how bad the alternative is......Can I just say, though, that I fantasize about illegal foods the way some people do sex? I went to sleep last night fantasizing about biscuits dripping in butter........


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
So I read the SCD book last night. What concerns me and has since I looked at the website is that most of what is recommended does not agree with my system. For example, all the nut flour. Nuts tend to make my symptoms flare and my life heck. Also, things that don't give me problems currently are on the no-no list.







: I am reticent to try SCD because it seems to fly in the face of my experiences to date. Literally almost every single food they mention as great is currently on my avoid list, and vice versa.

I checked out a second book, this one called _The New Eating Right for a Bad Gut_. I chuckled to myself as I picked up this book, thinking, "Watch, this one will say completely the opposite as SCD." Well, wouldn't ya know.... Where SCD says, "Never eat", ERBG says, "Have it a lot" and vice versa.

Can somebody give me some insight and/or advice on this? How come I have a deep feeling that I would simply die if I started the SCD given the foods they recommend? How come the other book is so completely in line with my symptoms and food experiences? If I just stick with what I'm doing (which is having a noticable effect on consistency of stool as well as other good benefits), am I dooming myself to just continually putting a bandaid on my symptoms via diet? Is the only way to cure/heal my gut via SCD?

No, the SCD is not the only way to gut healing, and in fact it doesn't work for quite a few people. What are you currently eating that you feel is working? What does your other book recommend? I do think you have to listen to your body and figure things out for yourself--I don't think any plan out there has all the answers for all people, they are just ways to get you started and help you. I also think you have to apply some common sense--you can feel great after eating bread, for example (that's probably not a good example but can't think of a better one right now), but common sense would tell you that white bread or bread make from unsoaked grains isn't good for you. Does that make sense?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
If you are experiencing die off it can vary this much as the toxins are eating it up as fast as you are getting it in.

Are you now taking at least 23-35 grams/day now? I'm telling you that book made a believer out of me!

Edited: oops, just saw you are doing 5 grams 5x/day. Are you seeing any changes from this? Reduced die off?

You know, I'm having trouble figuring out what my body needs. The die-off symptoms I was having before were gas and a rumbly stomach. The vitamin C has given me...lots of gas and a very rumbly stomach! So no, it hasn't reduced die-off.

I didn't get to bowel tolerance on the 5 grams 5x/day, although it made my stoomach very rumbly, which seems to mean I'm getting near bowel tolerance. I decided to start taking less more often...the first day I did that I did 2 grams every hour and reached bowel tolerance after 16 grams. The second day I did 2 grams every 2 hours and again reached bowel tolerance after 14 or 16 grams.

I'm not sure why I didn't reach bowel tolerance on the 5 grams 5x/day--maybe my body wasn't able to use that much at once. I haven't quite figured out the optimal dosing for me, although I think it will probably settle around 16 grams. I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to tell just before I've reached bowel tolerance, so I don't have to go through the diarrhea but can make sure I'm actually getting enough for that day.

I'm also not sure how long I want to continue taking such large doses, because of the gas problem. That's one of the things I was trying to cure through gut healing, so doing something that increases it isn't exactly what I want right now.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
So I read the SCD book last night. What concerns me and has since I looked at the website is that most of what is recommended does not agree with my system. For example, all the nut flour. Nuts tend to make my symptoms flare and my life heck. Also, things that don't give me problems currently are on the no-no list.







: I am reticent to try SCD because it seems to fly in the face of my experiences to date. Literally almost every single food they mention as great is currently on my avoid list, and vice versa.

I checked out a second book, this one called _The New Eating Right for a Bad Gut_. I chuckled to myself as I picked up this book, thinking, "Watch, this one will say completely the opposite as SCD." Well, wouldn't ya know.... Where SCD says, "Never eat", ERBG says, "Have it a lot" and vice versa.

Can somebody give me some insight and/or advice on this? How come I have a deep feeling that I would simply die if I started the SCD given the foods they recommend? How come the other book is so completely in line with my symptoms and food experiences? If I just stick with what I'm doing (which is having a noticable effect on consistency of stool as well as other good benefits), am I dooming myself to just continually putting a bandaid on my symptoms via diet? Is the only way to cure/heal my gut via SCD?

Nut flours didn't agree with me either. I think they are still too high in carbs and not as easy to digest as many people would have us believe, especially that they were not soaked to neutralize enzyme inhibitors. And some of them contain high amounts of mold.
I can tolerate small amounts of soaked and slow roasted nuts (macademia, brazil, pine and almonds) and some nut butters (almond, macademia) but not all types (peanut and cashew-maybe the mold? I don't know)
What else is bothering you?
Personally I agree WAPF's stand on the metabolic typing, I don't think it's valid. Traditional people don't even know their blood types, they all eat the same thing and are happy and healthy (were...)
SCD allows some things that are bad for candida, for example. Honey and fruit and nuts. Have you considered yeast as a problem?

have you tried just taking enzymes first?


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## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

Thank you for all the support! Maybe yeast is my problem (?). I haven't gotten an official diagnosis as to what I have, nor have I figured out anything further, such as if yeast is overgrowing. The book, which I'm almost finished with now, is fantastic. I now finally understand everything about DHA and EPA and their relation to prostaglandins, etc. Yes, this book is based on a lot of research. He focuses on reducing inflammation via diet and supplementation. I am going to go with it because it all makes sense, has good backup of documentation, etc. Not to mention I know I can do it. Additionally, it has the added benefit of being completely applicable to my whole family- the DC especially need the additional , and we all need to cut out the red meat and up the fish intake. I am actually excited- I've gone through this epiphany on food and feeding my family over the past month. First cutting out fast food completely, then being so much more aware of what goes into processed food, (thank you _Fast Food Nation_) and now getting the kick in the rear to finally take the plunge toward more fish. The statistics comparing the Danes to the Greenlanders (I think, I don't feel like jumping up to grab the book sorry) and their levels of EPA consumption and related health benefits (i.e. zero, yes zero IBD in Greenlanders, they just don't have diseases of inflammation [or very reduced incidence]). A little news- I actually got to talk to my gi doc yesterday. Long story I won't elaborate on now. But he thinks that I have IBS and not IBD. But my gut harhar is telling me that I have IBD, regardless of what my labs read and he thinks. We'll see I suppose. Nevertheless, IBD or IBS, I know changing our diet and lifestyle to a diet that will prevent inflammation will help DH and DC and me.

Yes, I tried the enzymes, and they disagreed with me.

My gi doc wants me to start taking some probiotics. Some over the counter stuff called something Q. I need to look into that. When I have the actual name I'll post here again. I was surprised that he even said the word "probiotic" LOL.

For now I am seeing some improvement, so I am buoyed by that. And making small strides toward understanding what is actually wrong with me, and what's not wrong with me. My current dream is to 'cure' myself by the beginning of the year and be able to tell the gi doc.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

sierratahoe, could you post some specifics of what the diet recommends eating? I think SCD is not the thing for me.

Question on sodium ascorbate and bfing. I assume that it does pass through bm? Just this week I have started decreasing the amount I take at once, and taking it more often during the day. DD2 has had a couple very mushy, stinky poops at night, which is very much not normal. Could my dose be her stool tolerance? Or could it be flushing something out of her system? She is also staying up til like 10 (or like right now, at almost 11), when she and DD1 go to be at 8:30ish. Still wakes up at the crack of dawn and isn't napping any more to make up for it. ????


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Hi all, I'm much more of a lurker than a poster, but I have a question for you. My mom has been suffering from severe diarrhea for over a week now -- like every fifteen minutes. She's exhausted and really not doing very well, as you can imagine. She's had a bunch of blood tests done, which have not found anything, and is having a stool test done soon, too. She also has an appointment for a colonoscopy lined up.

I gave her my copy of BTVC, but she's too tired to really read/understand it. I suggested she eat bananas, jello, and eggs, but I'm not sure she can really eat much of anything right now.

I feel so bad for her, and want to help, but I'm at a loss. I am still mostly vegetarian, so I have not yet cooked any chicken, or I'd make the chicken soup for her. I'm also dealing with a one-year old, and my mom is 1/2 hour away, which makes things more difficult.

Any ideas of what I should tell her? Or what I and my sister (who lives next door, but who does not cook at all) can do for her?

She has had bouts of diarrhea throughout her life (as have the rest of my sisters, but not me, interestingly, since I'm the youngest) but this is really, really the worst by far.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Can your sister make the soup? I know you say she doesnt' cook but the soup is easy, just throw everything in a pot, bring it to boil, and let it cook. She could even leave out the purreed carrots, just do a strained broth.


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## lllmomma (Sep 1, 2003)

Has someone given her something to stop it to keep her from getting further dehydrated and let her get her strength up while you figure out what it is? A week is a LONG time. Even over the counter immodium.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

*Metal toxicity*

I had a copper IUD put in about a month before Nolan started having rashes on his cheeks. Also I had vaccines about 4 years ago when I entered the Army and I didn't know I had a choice. DS has not been vaccinated and never will be. I have no fillings and I have not been a huge consumer of fish over the years. Am I likely to have a lot of toxic metals built up? If I do, what can I do while I'm nursing?

We are progressing slowly on SCD. I am feeling much better now that I am off all dairy. I am now able to introduce more veggies without bloating and gas. I started a protease (virastop) with meals and am experiencing die-off. I view this as a good thing, we are getting somewhere! DS has been on probiotics for 2 weeks now and his poop has firmed up little by little. Today's was soft-solid! He is also having BMs about every 3 days instead of 1x per week. I have never been so excited by poop before!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

*dosage questions*

I got some suppliments to help with DS's eczema (went to the eczema tribe and it is slow over there)
How much quercitin should I take? I have 500mg pills. Do I also need to take a bioflavonoid with heperitin and rutin in it?

How much EPO? I started with 500 mg at each meal. I remember somewhere Jane said it can take a lot to help with the eczema.

TIA


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## jennlindsey (Nov 5, 2005)

Hi there mamas,

Someone suggested I take a peek at this thread as I've got some stuff going on for which gut healing might be helpful. The most obvious one is thrush (yay fun), for which I'm doing the probiotics/cutting out sugar, but also (and this is what I'm really curious about) I've had severe roseacea for the past 8 years. I've read that leaky gut is implicated in inflammatory skin conditions -- has anyone had any luck with roseacea clearing up?

thanks so much!


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## BusyBeeMom (May 15, 2005)

Hi all. I'm wondering if this is a place for me. I was diagnosed w/NON-celiac gluten intolerance about 7 years ago. B/c it was not celiac, I haven't been compulsively GF, but have followed a largely wheat/GF diet.

DD was on an essentially GF diet until about age one (breastfed, and then intro'd GF solids). Looking @ her growth charts, it SEEMS that her growth (height) more or less leveled off at about that time. She also had a lot of loose, frequent bowel movements. For about 2-3 months, we put her on a largely GF, and cow dairy-reduced diet. She grew, and got in about 6 teeth all at once.

Right now, she is back on a "regular" diet b/c we're going to see a specialist at the Celiac center, and she wants to see DD on an unrestricted diet.

I'm wondering if anyone has had similar experiences, or if this is a good spot for me.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Gut-healers:
Before you go out and buy glutamine, you should read this:
http://www.mercola.com/2004/may/1/glutamine.htm

I know I'm throwing mine out.


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## neomia (Nov 17, 2005)

Why hello there jennlindsey! Another new mom checking in here. That mamajessica is magnetic.









I have a sleeping baby on my lap atm, but I will write in detail when I can. I am hoping you guys will have some insight for us!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Gut-healers:
Before you go out and buy glutamine, you should read this:
http://www.mercola.com/2004/may/1/glutamine.htm

I know I'm throwing mine out.

Hmm, does this also include the glutamine in bone broths?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Edina, I had wondered whether L-glutamine was related to glutamate. It's in bone broth and gelatin; does that mean we should avoid those, too? Or just the supplement?


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

I had it this bad once...it turned out I had a C-dif infection ! (clostridium dificile, I think...a very hard to kill infection.) It was diagnosed with a stool test.

Linda B.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Hi all, I'm much more of a lurker than a poster, but I have a question for you. My mom has been suffering from severe diarrhea for over a week now -- like every fifteen minutes. She's exhausted and really not doing very well, as you can imagine. She's had a bunch of blood tests done, which have not found anything, and is having a stool test done soon, too. She also has an appointment for a colonoscopy lined up.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Edina, I had wondered whether L-glutamine was related to glutamate. It's in bone broth and gelatin; does that mean we should avoid those, too? Or just the supplement?

The article talks about supplementing in large amounts, like I've been doing, l-glutamine 4500 mg!!!! And I have amalgam fillings, so I made my mercury status way worse.
I don't think bone broths are bad especially because they contain all the minerals and calcium to balance it out, IMO.
I think it's important to include bone-broths but you don't have to drink it all day long...
As the article said it's OK for gut healing for a short period of time except when you have a bad mercury level.
I'd avoid it for children.-I mean the supplement, not the broth
I've read other things from this guy Blaylock and he seems to be credible and knowledgable. he is a neurosurgeon and against mercury amalgams and mercury in vaccines knowing how it damages the brain. He's into nutritional healing.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Ooh, *Cademyn*, getting into trouble on the other board









I need some feedback. I am a month into the abti-candida diet per the yahoo group. I am swallowing supplements, chlorophyl, garlic, broth, fat, and meat, oh my. The first week I experienced obvious die-off - fatigue, depression, anxiety (both of these could easily be attributed to the major life change though). Then I had a few weeks of feeling good, meaning that I felt as good as I did before I started the program. The past week Ive started to notice symptoms that Ive never had. I know part of die-off and healing is to release toxins, but there is also the aspect of flaring up old symptoms, which shows that you are killing the yeast (or healing.... which annoys me that you dont really know what the H is happening in your body). So Im not flaring old symptoms b/c I havent had them before, so in general, I feel like a wreck. I feel worse than I ever did pre anti-candida, and the symptoms seem to increase (in variety and severity) with time. It seems from much of my reading that many people dagnose themselves ith yeast overgrowth because of symptoms that are making their lives uncomfortable. I did not have this, so this change in my body (in addition to diet) is causing me a lot of grief. I am sticking with it, as now I have a lot of fear (I sometimes feel like this is a disease for a lifetime - its surreal).

Any thoughts, words of wisdom, commiseration much needed







:

jess


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Sorry, I've been busy









On the glutamine thing, *I* would not limit bone broths. I think it always comes down to "food is far superior than supplements". This has been shown time and time again. So, I'm going w/that.

I'm about to post an update on my cancer thread if anyone is interested. Click on the "mama" in my sig and it will take you to my fancy schmancy thread
















and caedmyn, what are you doing???? (Is there a nosy smilie?)


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Has anyone ever looked into or tried this program for Candida? Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on it.
http://www.candidasupport.org/index.html


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Ooh, *Cademyn*, getting into trouble on the other board









I need some feedback. I am a month into the abti-candida diet per the yahoo group. I am swallowing supplements, chlorophyl, garlic, broth, fat, and meat, oh my. The first week I experienced obvious die-off - fatigue, depression, anxiety (both of these could easily be attributed to the major life change though). Then I had a few weeks of feeling good, meaning that I felt as good as I did before I started the program. The past week Ive started to notice symptoms that Ive never had. I know part of die-off and healing is to release toxins, but there is also the aspect of flaring up old symptoms, which shows that you are killing the yeast (or healing.... which annoys me that you dont really know what the H is happening in your body). So Im not flaring old symptoms b/c I havent had them before, so in general, I feel like a wreck. I feel worse than I ever did pre anti-candida, and the symptoms seem to increase (in variety and severity) with time. It seems from much of my reading that many people dagnose themselves ith yeast overgrowth because of symptoms that are making their lives uncomfortable. I did not have this, so this change in my body (in addition to diet) is causing me a lot of grief. I am sticking with it, as now I have a lot of fear (I sometimes feel like this is a disease for a lifetime - its surreal).

Any thoughts, words of wisdom, commiseration much needed







:

jess

I'm always a troublemaker







Apparently some of the people on that board don't like any suggestion that Bee's not quite the god they sometimes make her out to be.

Do you mind if I ask what symptoms you are having now? I haven't really had any re-tracing symptoms, but I've had quite a rumbly stomach, which I assume is die-off. It can be very frustrating trying to figure out what is actually going on with out bodies, and I don't know if I agree with Bee's saying EVERY reaction is either die-off or healing symptoms (if you're eating good food, that is).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
Has anyone ever looked into or tried this program for Candida? Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on it.
http://www.candidasupport.org/index.html

I've heard good and bad things about Threelac







. I'm not sure it's really possible to cure candida long-term without diet modifications, but maybe it is for some people, I don't know. It's awfully expensive, too, although they say they have a money back guarantee. I guess it could be worth a try if they make good on the money-back guarantee if it does't work.

I did a quick search of the archives of another candida yahoo group I'm a member of (not Bee's group) and basically most people were saying they felt it would only work if you had mild candida symptoms, and the people who said they thought it did help them were on a candida diet, also.


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

I've heard people posting about how their children with candidiasis/leaky guts have sleep issues and wake frequently. My ds does this. Wakes at least every 45-2 hours since birth. HOWEVER, the last two nights have been entirely different. Waking and WILL NOT go back to sleep. Nothing I do will help. Could be teething or countless other things I suppose as well.....

My question is: What is it about candida/leaky gut that makes a child wake at night? Or do I even want to know? Is something scary going on inside of them or are they hurting? Why do they keep waking?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
My question is: What is it about candida/leaky gut that makes a child wake at night? Or do I even want to know? Is something scary going on inside of them or are they hurting? Why do they keep waking?

my guess is gas and associated gas pains. ds would wake in the middle of the night, scream for a bit, then let out some big bursts of gas. while he was doing that, i'd be passing gas too. (you've heard of synchronized swimming, well we were doing synchronized farting!)

now that i've got the noxious things out of my diet and am well on the way to healing, the gas is gone (unless i eat something noxious and/or improperly prepared). ds is sleeping a lot better (plus he's older now too) and nursing a lot less during the night. if ds is going to react now (when i eat something noxious), it takes longer for it to affect him.

i also notice that when i keep my kefir levels high (3-4 cups per day), i'm less gaseous, i'm less stinky (battling stinky 'pits from time to time here!), i no longer have restless legs and i sleep better at night. i'm guessing that the kefir is helping a lot with magnesium, zinc and/or calcium absorption. i only need to take extra magnesium periodically now.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*

and caedmyn, what are you doing???? (Is there a nosy smilie?)

I didn't agree with Bee's (the group owner) version of how babies get yeast overgrowth. She says it stems from the parents' nutritional status at conception, that babies' guts are not sterile at birth and are not colonized during birth. I posted a link to a study...somebody else on the group said we were wasting time debating and it didn't really matter...and Bee didn't respond to my last post on that subject


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

My DD's got a tiny bit of eczema on one cheek again--could starting solids cause that? Over the past 3 weeks or so she's had a tiny bit of avocado, coconut oil, hard boiled egg yolk, and homemade pickle...the total amount of food she's had over that time is maybe 1/4 of a teaspoon. Could those little tiny tastes of food cause eczema? I also started her on probiotics about 10 days ago--could that cause eczema?


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Caedmny, hmm, have any of those foods caused problems when you ate them and your dd got them through breastmilk?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
My DD's got a tiny bit of eczema on one cheek again--could starting solids cause that? Over the past 3 weeks or so she's had a tiny bit of avocado, coconut oil, hard boiled egg yolk, and homemade pickle...the total amount of food she's had over that time is maybe 1/4 of a teaspoon. Could those little tiny tastes of food cause eczema? I also started her on probiotics about 10 days ago--could that cause eczema?


It could be die-off from the probiotics. My DD got the pimply rash thing from Culturelle for a few days.
Oh, and coconut oil gives her the same thing too. So I think they are killing the yeast and it comes out as hives/whitehead looking spots. I'm not sure which but hives don't last more than few hours and she had these for a few days. Same thing happened when I was taking candidase, except on a much larger scale (all over her body).
My other DD gets eczema on her cheeks and tummy from junk food but not die-off.
It's hard to know which is which...

People on Bee's diet:
How many cabbages do you buy? I bought one and it made about 3 batches of rejuvelac... I shop once a week but I'm afraid if I buy two heads, by the end the other cabbage won't be too fresh.
I think the cabbage juice is helping more than the yogurt, I have been drinking it for a few days only, though. But my DH says I stink like kimchi.








PLus the garlic smell. How can you guys socialize???


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Caedmny, hmm, have any of those foods caused problems when you ate them and your dd got them through breastmilk?

Not as far as I can tell, although she still has the allergy butt crack rash that's never gone away no matter what I eat. The only thing I know she reacts to is dairy.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
It could be die-off from the probiotics. My DD got the pimply rash thing from Culturelle for a few days.
Oh, and coconut oil gives her the same thing too. So I think they are killing the yeast and it comes out as hives/whitehead looking spots. I'm not sure which but hives don't last more than few hours and she had these for a few days. Same thing happened when I was taking candidase, except on a much larger scale (all over her body).
My other DD gets eczema on her cheeks and tummy from junk food but not die-off.
It's hard to know which is which...

People on Bee's diet:
How many cabbages do you buy? I bought one and it made about 3 batches of rejuvelac... I shop once a week but I'm afraid if I buy two heads, by the end the other cabbage won't be too fresh.
I think the cabbage juice is helping more than the yogurt, I have been drinking it for a few days only, though. But my DH says I stink like kimchi.








PLus the garlic smell. How can you guys socialize???

Maybe it's die-off from the probiotics then for DD. She does have these little bumps on her face that I think are "baby acne" and she got those right when she started the probiotics.

I buy 2-3 cabbages a week, although I made lots of meals with them, too. They keep for quite a while in the fridge, at least 2-3 weeks.

My DH is giving me a really hard time about having garlic breath all the time. I tried eating some parsley to control it but he says it didn't help much. (If anyone knows of ways to get rid of garlic breath please let me know!) I may switch to Candidase instead of raw garlic to try to kill the yeast just to make him happy, in spite of Bee's (unresearched, I think) objections to it.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Hello my friends. We are apparently being tested again. My little one is reacting to SOMETHING I'm eating. I've eliminated many things without a change. He vomits mucous and his stool (which is now at least seen once a day as opposed to every five days) is not seedy at all and is full of mucous. I have a reading from my intuitive tomorrow and am sure I'll get an answer. She's very good at this! So frustrating though. He is an absolute joy otherwise and makes no complaints regardless. My biggest fear is that I will have to eliminate nuts. I haven't tried that, as I eat a very clean diet and felt that I shouldn't need to. Neither of my other kids have nut issues. Ugh. I feel like I'm back at square one. Definitely still a leaky gut issue-he absolutely reacts to eggs, dairy and soy. Bananas and cacao are also out. I really hope I get this pegged down tomorrow!


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Best of luck tomorrow firefaery. I am sorry to hear this news. Trying to get healthy can be so much work and frustration. It's like a bad game of pin the tail on the donkey, totally blind-folded and no peeking.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks, Amanda. Things are clearly better as I am maintaining my milk supply. I am closer, just not there yet. I am looking forward to this as she has been dead on before. There are just too many tests in the world to run them all...especially since everything is so connected. I am going back to a more vigorous pursuit of gut health. While that's happening though, I'd like to preserve his!


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I may switch to Candidase instead of raw garlic to try to kill the yeast just to make him happy, in spite of Bee's (unresearched, I think) objections to it.[/QUOTE]

Yes I asked her about it and she said cellulases are fiber! I was under the impression that all enzymes are protein and cellulases eat fiber, how can they be of fiber? She thinks it's just a marketing hype and we don't need special enzymes for the yeast.
I don't think she researched enzymes like Karen DeFelice for example, as she is recommending pancreatic enzymes.
So this is where I disagree with Bee and still think cellulases are good. Otherwise they wouldn't have caused a die-off in DD.... they didn't do anything for me, but I think because I only took onw week's worth. I was scared of DD's reaction and the cost.

I need help with garlic breath, too!


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Chlorophyll acts as a deodorizer and will get rid of that nasty garlic smell. Get some liquid chlorophyll and down a bit. Chlorella will also work, and I find that wheat grass juice does the job quite nicely for me.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Chlorophyll acts as a deodorizer and will get rid of that nasty garlic smell. Get some liquid chlorophyll and down a bit. Chlorella will also work, and I find that wheat grass juice does the job quite nicely for me.

Yeah...doesn't work for me. I take it at least once a day (liquid chlorophyll), and even when I took it 3x/day DH said it didn't make any difference in the garlic breath


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Yes I asked her about it and she said cellulases are fiber! I was under the impression that all enzymes are protein and cellulases eat fiber, how can they be of fiber? She thinks it's just a marketing hype and we don't need special enzymes for the yeast.
I don't think she researched enzymes like Karen DeFelice for example, as she is recommending pancreatic enzymes.
So this is where I disagree with Bee and still think cellulases are good. Otherwise they wouldn't have caused a die-off in DD.... they didn't do anything for me, but I think because I only took onw week's worth. I was scared of DD's reaction and the cost.

I need help with garlic breath, too!

I'm pretty certain Bee misunderstood you and was actually saying that cellulose, not cellulase, is fiber.

I'll let you know how it goes after the next couple of weeks when I'm going to do Candidase instead of garlic (we're going to visit DH's family and I don't want to kill them with my garlic breath!). There is a brand called Candizyme which is essentially the same as Candidase but much much cheaper--if I stick with the yeast killing enzymes I'm going to use that once I get this bottle of Candidase used up.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Hello my friends. We are apparently being tested again. My little one is reacting to SOMETHING I'm eating. I've eliminated many things without a change. He vomits mucous and his stool (which is now at least seen once a day as opposed to every five days) is not seedy at all and is full of mucous. I have a reading from my intuitive tomorrow and am sure I'll get an answer. She's very good at this! So frustrating though. He is an absolute joy otherwise and makes no complaints regardless. My biggest fear is that I will have to eliminate nuts. I haven't tried that, as I eat a very clean diet and felt that I shouldn't need to. Neither of my other kids have nut issues. Ugh. I feel like I'm back at square one. Definitely still a leaky gut issue-he absolutely reacts to eggs, dairy and soy. Bananas and cacao are also out. I really hope I get this pegged down tomorrow!

Good luck. Please post what she tells you.
OT: ff, have you dealt w/labial adhesions at all? DD2 now has one. All of a sudden. Got a natural remedy idea?







:


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Never dealt with it. I would say calendula oil applied topically off the top of my head. I know one person who had great luck. I used it myself after I was stitched improperly after my first birth. I had healed and they were going to cut and restitch. My homeopath told me to use calendula oil. I had no faith in it-how could oil change the fact that I was misaligned and had excess skin hanging? But it did. And quickly. I have no idea if it would work in your situation, but it wouldn't hurt.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Caedmyn- I have no other advice regarding garlic smell!

EBG-Caedmyn is right. Cellulose is a fiber, cellulase is an enzyme.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

ah, thanks ff. Already went to our hfs to get some calendula. They don't have any.


----------



## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Gut-healers:
Before you go out and buy glutamine, you should read this:
http://www.mercola.com/2004/may/1/glutamine.htm

I know I'm throwing mine out.

Mama, I cannot thank you enough for posting this link to this article. Who knew it could be so dangerous, and particularly for a pre-born baby!!! My baby and I send you unlimited hugs and thanks!!!

I guess that was just another case of synchronicity in my life when I didn't get the shipment I ordered, my otherwise-well-stocked grocery didn't have any, etc.- the universe (Higher Power, whatever label) was protecting me/us!!!!


----------



## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Good luck. Please post what she tells you.
OT: ff, have you dealt w/labial adhesions at all? DD2 now has one. All of a sudden. Got a natural remedy idea?







:

I am lurking here, but saw this and wanted to reply.







My dd2 had this, she developed it at around 1 or 2 weeks old(I was changing her one day and realized I could not see an opening to her vagina). I left it alone and it opened on it's own around 18 months. I've heard that in most cases this is true. hth


----------



## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

Ok ladies, I need some help here- my gi doc suggested I take FloraQ for a month. The species of probiotics in the Flora-Q Capsule include:
Lactobacillus acidophilus
Bifidobacterium
Lactobacillus paracasei
Streptococcus thermophilus

www.floraq.com for all the info on it. It is pricey- $33 for 30 capsules. I really don't want to spend thirty dollars on something that might well not work for me and just have to be thrown out.

Here are some questions:

Is there a better, more natural, cheaper way to get these critters in my gut?
If I do buy and end up not taking them, can they be taken by the rest of the family? What benefit would they see? Just like eating super-yogurt







?
Anyone taken this particular product? Liked it? Not?
How about safety of taking probiotics during pregnancy?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Caedmyn- I have no other advice regarding garlic smell!

EBG-Caedmyn is right. Cellulose is a fiber, cellulase is an enzyme.

I know. I was just curious what Bee thought of using cellulases between meals and she said it's fiber, so she probably thought I was asking about cellulose, but I think I mentioned that cellulases are enzymes that break down the yeast cellwalls. Anyway, this is why it's good to visit different forums and read different researches because individual people have different ideas. But all in all, Bee has done tremendous research and it's the best candida approach I have come accross so far....


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Isn't Chlorella a chelator that can cause problems if you have mercury toxicty? I seem to recall that from Andrew Cutler's website. Also, doesn't wheat grass juice contain gluten? After searching on the BTVC site, it appears that it isn't SCD legal due to it possibly containing gluten or grain.


----------



## lllmomma (Sep 1, 2003)

Hi,
I'm a newbie that needs to do some candida cleansing...







so who is Bee and what is her diet? Also what is SCD?

THanks!


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

lllmomma, SCD is specific carbohydrate diet that many of the mamas are following here. Check out the sticky at the top of the page in this forum. Bee hosts a anticandida yahoo group, which a few here are a part of.

*firefaery*, you know I want to hear all about your session tomorrow. I have on for Friday night. I can't wait.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

EBG,

I can tell you that when I had thrush while bf'ing... Candex worked *FABULOUSLY*

This was way before I even knew about what the powers of enzymes really were and was just following mama advice at "SecretsOfTheUniverse.com" otherwise known as MDC.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Firefaery, good luck!!!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
I've heard people posting about how their children with candidiasis/leaky guts have sleep issues and wake frequently. My ds does this. Wakes at least every 45-2 hours since birth. HOWEVER, the last two nights have been entirely different. Waking and WILL NOT go back to sleep. Nothing I do will help. Could be teething or countless other things I suppose as well.....

My question is: What is it about candida/leaky gut that makes a child wake at night? Or do I even want to know? Is something scary going on inside of them or are they hurting? Why do they keep waking?

Being waaaaay down the road with DS.... and one I travelled myself as well...

I think it has to do with the body not correctly processing amino acids as well as the toxic metabolites (that are like alcohol) of the bad bacteria/yeast effecting the central nervous system.

When my digestion was bad, I had horrible anxiety and insomnia. Yes, my tummy hurt, had gas pains, but it was more than that. Same with DS, he is hyperactive at night. And no one would call him a hyperactive child during the daytime.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Hi all, I'm much more of a lurker than a poster, but I have a question for you. My mom has been suffering from severe diarrhea for over a week now -- like every fifteen minutes. She's exhausted and really not doing very well, as you can imagine. She's had a bunch of blood tests done, which have not found anything, and is having a stool test done soon, too. She also has an appointment for a colonoscopy lined up.

...

She has had bouts of diarrhea throughout her life (as have the rest of my sisters, but not me, interestingly, since I'm the youngest) but this is really, really the worst by far.

The stool test should be done for pathogens, or this could be advanceding case of Crohn's if she has been dealing with it all her life.









Can you make a big pot of chicken soup with bone broth and bring her some 1x/week in freezable containers?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
You know, I'm having trouble figuring out what my body needs. The die-off symptoms I was having before were gas and a rumbly stomach. The vitamin C has given me...lots of gas and a very rumbly stomach! So no, it hasn't reduced die-off.

MT didn't answer me in other thread did she? b/c I would think if you are getting any tummy symptoms at all that means you reached your optidose right?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Apparently it's in my body but is not *showing itself* yet. That's why she kept saying that it's about the time that it should start showing up on tests etc.

























What an emotional thing to go through!

I also absolutely believe my DS was sent to heal me. In fact he has, and in a way, gave up his health for me...







I guess I think of that when he wakes up for the upteenth time at night or is a complete bear to deal with. I will never rest until he is completely healthy.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Excellent!! I'm going to be starting IV Vit C in a couple of weeks, hopefully the week after next







Does Vit C go through breastmilk??? And in what levels?

Yes, higher amounts do go thru BM but I've never seen the levels and how they correlate.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Liquid chlorophyll isn't a very strong chelator to my knowledge. Wheat grass does not have gluten. The proteins aren't present in the grass, only in the grain.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Hello my friends. We are apparently being tested again. My little one is reacting to SOMETHING I'm eating. I've eliminated many things without a change. He vomits mucous and his stool (which is now at least seen once a day as opposed to every five days) is not seedy at all and is full of mucous. I have a reading from my intuitive tomorrow and am sure I'll get an answer. She's very good at this! So frustrating though. He is an absolute joy otherwise and makes no complaints regardless. My biggest fear is that I will have to eliminate nuts. I haven't tried that, as I eat a very clean diet and felt that I shouldn't need to. Neither of my other kids have nut issues. Ugh. I feel like I'm back at square one. Definitely still a leaky gut issue-he absolutely reacts to eggs, dairy and soy. Bananas and cacao are also out. I really hope I get this pegged down tomorrow!

When I try a new food on SCD and I don't digest it properly DS throws up. Things have been better since I cut out dairy, I have been able to introduce more new veggies without this reflux reaction. He seems to be the most sesitive to nuts, I have tried cashew butter and it is ok in small quantities but macadamia nut butter is a no go. It seems like everything is hit or miss...


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Never dealt with it. I would say calendula oil applied topically off the top of my head. I know one person who had great luck. I used it myself after I was stitched improperly after my first birth. I had healed and they were going to cut and restitch. My homeopath told me to use calendula oil. I had no faith in it-how could oil change the fact that I was misaligned and had excess skin hanging? But it did. And quickly. I have no idea if it would work in your situation, but it wouldn't hurt.

Thanks for this suggestion, I was torn very sloppily during DS's birth and they stitched me up as best they could but calendula oil sounds like it could help.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I hate this fungus!!!!!!!!!!!
It messed up my memory compeletely. I'm very frustrated now... I'm making SCD yogurt and since I have only pasturized, I have to boil the milk. Now for the umpteenth time I forgot it was on the stove and overboiled it. Arggh. I hate cleaning up the mess and wasting the milk.


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

a little assistance please...

ok, i followed the instructions for making yoghurt to a t (so i thought). i used raw goat's milk, dannon (plain yogurt), and a 60 watt bulb in my oven...and came out with very tart tasting goat milk...at least that's the consistency. it tastes like 'yoghurt' only more tart than store bought, but what did i do wrong with the consistency? jane-thanks for the instructions...i did do a trial run with water and was able to maintain the correct temp. any advice for next time?

i cannot believe how disappointed i am with the failed yoghurt. it seems so silly, but with such a limited diet the thought of having something new for breakfast was awesome!!

ds did not like the taste at all. i tried mixing in some blended, frozen fruit. then i tried juicing some fruits and veggies then mixing in the yoghurt and he still would not drink it. (there is no eating it with a spoon...ds is only 19mths) anyone have ideas for disguising the goat taste???
ds does not seem to tolerate honey.

thanks
peace


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I hate this fungus!!!!!!!!!!!
It messed up my memory compeletely. I'm very frustrated now... I'm making SCD yogurt and since I have only pasturized, I have to boil the milk. Now for the umpteenth time I forgot it was on the stove and overboiled it. Arggh. I hate cleaning up the mess and wasting the milk.









i hear ya! only i used to forget about it when it was cooling - and it would get too cold. i'm SO glad i was able to switch to kefir.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I let DD suck on my homemade pickle yesterday and she got a rash around her mouth. Does that mean she is reacting to the pickle or could she just have sensitive skin?


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I let DD suck on my homemade pickle yesterday and she got a rash around her mouth. Does that mean she is reacting to the pickle or could she just have sensitive skin?

i just read that cucumbers and watermelons are not very allergenic, so i would imagine that, if it is a reaction to the pickles, then it is likely that it is the microbes in your pickles or whatever else is in the pickles (not the cucumbers themselves - though that would be one test to try).


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

It could be just the acids. My DD has very sensitive skin around the mouth and so tomatoes, citrus and cooked spinach gives her a red mouth but it's not really rashy, just raw looking. Like someone slapped her.
I wouldn't think the bacteria would do that, rather the acids produced by them from the cucumber. Just thinking....


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
a little assistance please...

ok, i followed the instructions for making yoghurt to a t (so i thought). i used raw goat's milk, dannon (plain yogurt), and a 60 watt bulb in my oven...and came out with very tart tasting goat milk...at least that's the consistency. it tastes like 'yoghurt' only more tart than store bought, but what did i do wrong with the consistency? jane-thanks for the instructions...i did do a trial run with water and was able to maintain the correct temp. any advice for next time?

i cannot believe how disappointed i am with the failed yoghurt. it seems so silly, but with such a limited diet the thought of having something new for breakfast was awesome!!

ds did not like the taste at all. i tried mixing in some blended, frozen fruit. then i tried juicing some fruits and veggies then mixing in the yoghurt and he still would not drink it. (there is no eating it with a spoon...ds is only 19mths) anyone have ideas for disguising the goat taste???
ds does not seem to tolerate honey.

thanks
peace

Goat yogurt is very runny by nature and is also VERY tart. I think it wasn't failed, it is just how goat yogurt is. You could try adding gelatin to thicken it, but I don't know what to do about the taste. It's too strong for me.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
a little assistance please...

ok, i followed the instructions for making yoghurt to a t (so i thought). i used raw goat's milk, dannon (plain yogurt), and a 60 watt bulb in my oven...and came out with very tart tasting goat milk...at least that's the consistency. it tastes like 'yoghurt' only more tart than store bought, but what did i do wrong with the consistency? jane-thanks for the instructions...i did do a trial run with water and was able to maintain the correct temp. any advice for next time?

i cannot believe how disappointed i am with the failed yoghurt. it seems so silly, but with such a limited diet the thought of having something new for breakfast was awesome!!

ds did not like the taste at all. i tried mixing in some blended, frozen fruit. then i tried juicing some fruits and veggies then mixing in the yoghurt and he still would not drink it. (there is no eating it with a spoon...ds is only 19mths) anyone have ideas for disguising the goat taste???
ds does not seem to tolerate honey.

thanks
peace

I could barely choke down the goat yogurt myself. I tried adding vanilla (the kind with glycerin if you are doing SCD). I also tried orange oil. Good luck


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I also absolutely believe my DS was sent to heal me. In fact he has, and in a way, gave up his health for me...







I guess I think of that when he wakes up for the upteenth time at night or is a complete bear to deal with. I will never rest until he is completely healthy.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

so the other night, we didn't have our epsom salt bath nor did i take my afternoon/evening magnesium supplement. and we had watermelon a few times during the day.

it was THE WORST sleep i've ever had. not because ds was actually waking though. he was THRASHING around in bed so badly. i think he kicked dh in the ribs a few times and he pushed me out of bed (onto the pillow landing pad, but still)...

last night, bath but no epsom salts. i had taken my magnesium supplement during the afternoon and then again later after ds went to bed (which made me reach my threshold!). i still had trouble getting ds to sleep but at least he didn't thrash around last night.

wherever i read that watermelon and cucumber were not that allergenic also said that watermelon was good for the digestion. stupid site didn't say why. it passes straight through ds - i don't think he chews it and he eats it by the handful. thankfully watermelon season is almost over so that temptation won't be there much longer.


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
EBG, I can tell you that when I had thrush while bf'ing... Candex worked *FABULOUSLY*

This was way before I even knew about what the powers of enzymes really were and was just following mama advice at "SecretsOfTheUniverse.com" otherwise known as MDC.









Can you say more about this You took Candex for thrush for how long, and what dose? (also, when you say thrush, how did it look? There is the medical description, and then a lot of wiggle room)

Cademyn - I have noever had digestive issues, and just started last week with the rumbling and gas. I havent changed anything about the diet. It started on the day I was going to attempt my Vit C optidose, until I got a horrid stomach ache and topped. Now the rumbling and gas continue. One of the things this protocal has brought that I didnt have symtoms of prior







...

Milk - I tried lactose free milk and goat milk, and both gave ds diarhea. So he's back on soy







Any suggestions?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Who here is doing SCD AND anti-candida diet at the same time?

I *may* be convinced enough to go to full anti-candida. I've been binging on SCD illegal sweets for the last 2 days.







It's my last-ditch attempt at *proving* I don't need to do this. Needless to say, dd slept like crap last night after slowly improving due to chelation.

So . . . who else here is doing BOTH diets?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Who here is doing SCD AND anti-candida diet at the same time?

I *may* be convinced enough to go to full anti-candida. I've been binging on SCD illegal sweets for the last 2 days.







It's my last-ditch attempt at *proving* I don't need to do this. Needless to say, dd slept like crap last night after slowly improving due to chelation.

So . . . who else here is doing BOTH diets?

I don't remember all the legal/illegal foods on the SCD, but I think if you're doing the anti-candida diet you're pretty much doing the SCD by default, but with a lot fewer foods. I don't think there are any veggies allowed on the anti-candida that aren't allowed on SCD, although you don't have to cook them if you don't want to. Is that what you meant, or were you looking for people who were incorporating parts of both?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Can you say more about this You took Candex for thrush for how long, and what dose? (also, when you say thrush, how did it look? There is the medical description, and then a lot of wiggle room)

Cademyn - I have noever had digestive issues, and just started last week with the rumbling and gas. I havent changed anything about the diet. It started on the day I was going to attempt my Vit C optidose, until I got a horrid stomach ache and topped. Now the rumbling and gas continue. One of the things this protocal has brought that I didnt have symtoms of prior







...

Milk - I tried lactose free milk and goat milk, and both gave ds diarhea. So he's back on soy







Any suggestions?

Please don't give hime soy. It's worse than milk. Lactose free milk loads the liver with too much galactose. Have you tried raw goat or cow's?
or coconut milk?

I also have a rumbly tummy on Bee's diet, but I also stopped the enzymes because of the cost. So I don't know if it's due to the extra amounts of garlic or no enzymes...hm.... I did get die-off rashes again, though.
And I'm not taking extra C yet. Waiting for my amla....


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Can you say more about this You took Candex for thrush for how long, and what dose? (also, when you say thrush, how did it look? There is the medical description, and then a lot of wiggle room)

Cademyn - I have noever had digestive issues, and just started last week with the rumbling and gas. I havent changed anything about the diet. It started on the day I was going to attempt my Vit C optidose, until I got a horrid stomach ache and topped. Now the rumbling and gas continue. One of the things this protocal has brought that I didnt have symtoms of prior







...

Milk - I tried lactose free milk and goat milk, and both gave ds diarhea. So he's back on soy







Any suggestions?

I think the rumbling and gas is die-off...or at least the rumbling as I had gas before. I thought maybe it was due to the vitamin C but I stopped taking it for a couple of days to see if the gas would go away, and it hasn't, and neither has the rumbling.

Why not just stop giving your DS any form of milk if he can't tolerate real milk? Soy really is bad for him. If you're worried about calcium, try to get bone broths into him, or else supplement--besides, soy milk only has added calcium, right? So it's not any different than supplementing.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I don't remember all the legal/illegal foods on the SCD, but I think if you're doing the anti-candida diet you're pretty much doing the SCD by default, but with a lot fewer foods. I don't think there are any veggies allowed on the anti-candida that aren't allowed on SCD, although you don't have to cook them if you don't want to. Is that what you meant, or were you looking for people who were incorporating parts of both?

Does this mean that all the baked goods you eat are made w/almond flour (or other SCD *legal* flour as well?

I guess you're right though. The anti-candida diet is extremely limited and I suppose that it's probably SCD by default.

I mean, really, is a person supposed to be able to sustain themselves on ONLY meat and veggies? No cheese? No yogurt? Just meat (which I was never a big fan of anyway) and veggies. Ughhhh. I hate it hate it hate it.

Did I mention that I hate it?

BTW, my homeopath convinced me that just because candida did not show up in dd's CDSA that it doesn't mean it's not there. ANd, just because I've never shown any kind of yeast sign it doesn't mean it's not there. She said, "Where there are metals, there is yeast." I believe her.









Did I mention that I hate it?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Who here is doing SCD AND anti-candida diet at the same time?

I *may* be convinced enough to go to full anti-candida. I've been binging on SCD illegal sweets for the last 2 days.







It's my last-ditch attempt at *proving* I don't need to do this. Needless to say, dd slept like crap last night after slowly improving due to chelation.

So . . . who else here is doing BOTH diets?

I am....
SCD and the yahoo group candida diet. All the other candida diets are low-fat and allow some grains and suspicious green supplements.
SCD without honey, fruit, nuts, yogurt (most of the time







) and high-carb veggies like carrots, squash etc.
A few SCD illelgals I do on this candida diet is stevia and probiotics besides acidophilus.
I also cheat with heavy cream every once in a blue moon, because it's full of fat and yummy.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Me too. But thank God I love meat and eggs. Otherwise it would be starvation.... The most important is the fat, then the protein, then the good veggie carbs.

I just read the same thing in one of Bee's files. Candida stool tests are inaccurate because of some IgA involvment I didn't really get. But they are still in the gut.
Also I remeber you said your DS has zero acidophilus, right?, in spite of the fact that you've been giving him yogurt.
Well Bee says that if you start giving probiotics too early they won't implant because not enough candida is killed off. So it's important to start with diet, then when the initial die-off goes away, you add antifungals, and then you add the probiotics. You don't want to overwhelm the body.

I hate it, too!!! I won't even have a cake for my birthday.

Except maybe Jane's cashew cake.............


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Really starting to resent this "Bee" woman.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Really starting to resent this "Bee" woman.


















a meat and veggies diet is VERY boring. I am pretty much trying to stick with this but it is very hard


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*








a meat and veggies diet is VERY boring. I am pretty much trying to stick with this but it is very hard

It really does get easier...I admit, though, I'm a little tired of it...I wouldn't mind if I knew for sure it was helping, but it is so hard to tell. I keep wondering, "If I go back to eating NT style and just do lots and lots of fermented foods and anti-fungals, maybe I can still heal but it will just take longer..."


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I also cheat with heavy cream every once in a blue moon, because it's full of fat and yummy.

Aah, but I just mde the "fake cream" from the recipe index on Bee's site and YUM. It makes a uart. I now use it in my decaf coffee w/ 2tbsp CO - its like a dessert (so sometimes I have another after dinner







). Look under the drinks ection. Its easy to make.

As for soy milk, I KNOW its bad, that's why Im desperate to find an alterntive. Im tinking of making my own almond milk. It would be very hard to cut him off from milk b/c he and dd have it warm w/ cinn. as a kind of treat. he also has a little on oats, which he wouldnt miss. I havent tried raw, but Id literally have to sneak it into my house as Dh has forbidden it! (he's an allopath, what're ya gonna do







).

Im hoping the rumbling is die-off, as Ive had a very bad week of symptoms after not having any for 2 wks. I was thinking maybe I killed off the first wave in the first 2 wks, and now am getting to another (I added garlic last week so that could be it too). Have you noticed how candida is such a perfect ailment for creating OCD/anxiety/depression. I think its funny that anxiety is a die-off symptom - frankly I think its bs. I think the anxiety/depression is having this thing in you that you cant see, cant measure, cant tell if its getting better, but if it doesnt, you are in line for all kinds of miserable symptoms/illness. Its crazy.

On the garlic breath; I press two cloves into a container, wad them into a ball, split the ball into two smaller balls and place one at a time on the back of my tongue as far as I can and then wash quickly down with lemon water. Dont swoish or stir it up back there at all







At least you cant taste it - havent tested the breath directly on Dh.


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

p.s. I was reading through some stuff in the yahoo anti-candida files and stumbled on an article about leaky gut in which Bee explains why she doesnt believe in it. I also read back in the messages at the beginning, and she was pretty unsure about a lot of the things she now has an opinion about. I realize two years is a lot of time to research, but you all have done as much. She knows a lot, but its not gospel

Yeah, Im getting tired of meat meat meat, and its only been a month.

Oh, are parsnips verboten? Probably, since they were so dang yummy last night slathered with CO and salt/pepper. I looked on the ok'd shopping list today and they werent there


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Can you say more about this You took Candex for thrush for how long, and what dose? (also, when you say thrush, how did it look? There is the medical description, and then a lot of wiggle room)

I'm pretty sure it was thrush as my nipples were red and burning (white when DS popped off) and my digestive and bladder symptoms were worse then too. Thrush finally resulted in me connecting everything.

I think I just followed the bottle directions: 2 before bed and 2 upon waking? Wait an hr. before eating bfast. I should have kept taking it, but stopped when I finished a bottle or something. I really forget when it came back, I had it several times off and on.


----------



## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Kefir........what are folks' thoughts?

I'm thinking of goat kefir for DS as sort of an intro to enzymes as it seems from my reading that it has good digestive enzymes. If I make him yogurt from raw goat milk and culture in probiotics, is it moot to also do kefir?

I'd love some wisdom.......

Thanks!
megin


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

*Copper toxicity*

I have a copper IUD and am wondering how bad it is for my body. I have been doing some research about them but nothing anyone says is conclusive.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
not to mention it is from 1980.

This one talks about damage to the lining of the uterus but not about toxicity
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

This list of symptoms are similar to yeast, makes it hard to tell if it is copper
http://www.nutritional-solutions.com/metals/copper.htm

Any thoughts?


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Who here is doing SCD AND anti-candida diet at the same time?

I *may* be convinced enough to go to full anti-candida. I've been binging on SCD illegal sweets for the last 2 days.







It's my last-ditch attempt at *proving* I don't need to do this. Needless to say, dd slept like crap last night after slowly improving due to chelation.

So . . . who else here is doing BOTH diets?

Sigh...Me, now.







:


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

watermelon passes through my ds too. In Chinese medicine, it's a cooling food, so if you already tend to be cold (as so many of us do), it can make things worse.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

And it's made of water, so will act as a diuretic (watermelon).


----------



## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
My DH is giving me a really hard time about having garlic breath all the time. I tried eating some parsley to control it but he says it didn't help much. (If anyone knows of ways to get rid of garlic breath please let me know!)

I have heard parsley and/or lime juice gets rid of the garlic breath.

I worry about parsley because it can alter milk production.


----------



## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I had no faith in it-how could oil change the fact that I was misaligned and had excess skin hanging? But it did. And quickly.

It's been almost two years since the birth of my DD and I have an issue of *improper stitching*. There is a pink colored glob of flesh hanging out of my anus. It's not a hemorrhoid (had those since high school and they don't hang out), it's just from a dumb male perionatalogist (sp?) who didn't sew me up right after cutting me and assisting in my 4th degree tear. Do you think calendula oil would work to shrink it? Or anything else, I'm desperate!


----------



## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Also, doesn't wheat grass juice contain gluten? After searching on the BTVC site, it appears that it isn't SCD legal due to it possibly containing gluten or grain.

My DD is sensitive to wheat, even if I consume it. I drank two ounces of wheatgrass and she had no reaction.


----------



## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

I am mostly just reading along and absorbing all the info here. DD and I have a few issues that need to be addressed, but not a lot (well, actually none) of money to do everything I would like to do.

Tonight as I was getting DD ready for bed, I noticed that her butt crack/vulva area was bright red, classic yeast rash. I applied some lavender EO (which has worked in the past) and put her to sleep.

Does external yeast always mean there is internal yeast?
Since I can't afford raw milk (and probably not even organic milk







) , will using regular old milk to make 24 hour yogurt be acceptable (or should I just go with the cabbage juice since it would be lots cheaper?)?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Aah, but I just mde the "fake cream" from the recipe index on Bee's site and YUM. It makes a uart. I now use it in my decaf coffee w/ 2tbsp CO - its like a dessert (so sometimes I have another after dinner







). Look under the drinks ection. Its easy to make.

Does it taste anything like whipped cream?
Also, how long does it last? Does it collapse soon, can it be stored in the refrigerator?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie*
I am mostly just reading along and absorbing all the info here. DD and I have a few issues that need to be addressed, but not a lot (well, actually none) of money to do everything I would like to do.

Tonight as I was getting DD ready for bed, I noticed that her butt crack/vulva area was bright red, classic yeast rash. I applied some lavender EO (which has worked in the past) and put her to sleep.

Does external yeast always mean there is internal yeast?
Since I can't afford raw milk (and probably not even organic milk







) , will using regular old milk to make 24 hour yogurt be acceptable (or should I just go with the cabbage juice since it would be lots cheaper?)?

DD has a yeast rash, too. I think I've been giving too much fruit lately.
I make the yogurt with regular milk. This is the only snack- type thing the kids can have (as grains and most fruit is out) and they don't care for the rejuvelac, so I'll keep making yogurt for them for the probiotics.
Have you tried coconut milk?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I think watermelon is basically sugar water. It's contraindicated when yeast is an issue.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie*
I have heard parsley and/or lime juice gets rid of the garlic breath.

I worry about parsley because it can alter milk production.

Parsley helps some for me, but not really enough. I think unless you already have supply problems, as long as you're only using small amounts you're probably fine. There are a lot of herbs that are fine for use in small amounts for cooking, just not in larger amounts. Maybe firefaery or someone else who's more knowledgeable about herbs knows more about this, though.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

I'm 2 weeks into SCD (minus dairy) and am slowly lining up my daily regimen. I've got the Freeda multivits, LACTO as a starter for enzymes, amla for vit c, but I need a recommendation on CLO. My toddler uses nordic naturals and I was using a Country Life supplement for omegas, but I'd like input from the knowledgeable folks here about what you think is best for CLO that meet the SCD requirements. TIA!


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I take this cod liver oil. Its clean and doesn't really taste bad. We all take it in OJ except for the 21m old who takes it off the spoon









Our dosages are:
Me: 1T+ (for gut healing, but mostly, for cancer)
DH: 1t+ (for cavities)
DS1: 1/2t+ (for gut)
DS2: 1/2t+ (for teeth)

I kind of estimate, hence the +


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Right Caedmyn. Parsley is fine unless you are using it medicinally. I still use it in food, and I have significant supply issues.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Did I miss the update on your reading FF?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Somebody started a candida question thread in the NT forum, and this link was posted: http://www.susunweed.com/herbal_ezin..._Mar-02.htm#q2

Any opinions on this? It would be great if it would work (so much easier!) but since her advice runs totally counter to everything else I've read about treating yeast overgrowths, I'm a bit (okay, a lot) skeptical.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I did the Iodine patch test. 5 hours later and it's GONE. Deficient much?









Guess I should be eating more lobster... must run and tell DH.









Interesting website here, and see this page re: digestion, candida and iodine:

http://iodine4health.com/body/gastrointestinal.htm


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Somebody started a candida question thread in the NT forum, and this link was posted: http://www.susunweed.com/herbal_ezin..._Mar-02.htm#q2

Any opinions on this? It would be great if it would work (so much easier!) but since her advice runs totally counter to everything else I've read about treating yeast overgrowths, I'm a bit (okay, a lot) skeptical.

I got a 404 error when I clicked the link.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I did the Iodine patch test. 5 hours later and it's GONE. Deficient much?









Guess I should be eating more lobster... must run and tell DH.









Interesting website here, and see this page re: digestion, candida and iodine:

http://iodine4health.com/body/gastrointestinal.htm

I keep forgetting to buy iodine! i need to do that test. So do we supplement with kelp, or...I've already forgotten...so much to remember!


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I did the Iodine patch test. 5 hours later and it's GONE. Deficient much?









Guess I should be eating more lobster... must run and tell DH.









Interesting website here, and see this page re: digestion, candida and iodine:

http://iodine4health.com/body/gastrointestinal.htm

Same thing happened to me. Does deficient in iodine mean hypothyroid?


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I believe it can mean either...you just supplement differently to correct it. Iodine for hypo, iodine and copper for hyper IIRC.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
Kefir........what are folks' thoughts?


i am 100% convinced that my regularly high level of kefir intake spared me from a nasty stomach virus that swept through dh, ds, and the family of 3 that were visiting us (along with most of ds's daycare class).

a local friend has since started reading about kefir (she was one of the family of 3!) and, since she's from Germany, she's been reading the German websites which are loaded with info about the beneficial and healing properties of kefir.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Somebody started a candida question thread in the NT forum, and this link was posted: http://www.susunweed.com/herbal_ezin..._Mar-02.htm#q2

Any opinions on this? It would be great if it would work (so much easier!) but since her advice runs totally counter to everything else I've read about treating yeast overgrowths, I'm a bit (okay, a lot) skeptical.

after all the reading i've been doing on microbes, i would sorta agree with her. i certainly notice that i feel really good when i intake a broad spectrum of fermented foods than on days when i don't. granted, i don't think i had a truly horrible candida overload - just enough of one to set off some allergy symptoms and leaky gut. i did spend about a month or so in the spring on a meat and veggies diet - mostly because i was doing a dairy elimination to test for sensitivity. things improved for me then - much less brain fog - but i really noticed an improvement when i introduced kefir, yogurt and raw sauerkraut.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

to you Jane. I know your ds will get better.

ff, where do they sell calendula oil, and what brands? I have some Weleda Calendula baby oil, but it's not homeopathic.

sakiasmom did you try goat yogurt as a milk substitute?

Speaking of goat yogurt, how do you add gelatin to it to thicken it? DS always spills his. He actually eats it plain now, somehow he's gotten used to it.


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Does it taste anything like whipped cream?
Also, how long does it last? Does it collapse soon, can it be stored in the refrigerator?

Its like jello cream. Sort of like ice-cream too. The gelatin makes it set up into a blob-like consistency, but this melts when I add it to hot coffee, so it would surely get looser at room temp (I keep it in fridge, obviously). I keep it in a wide mouth jar, which wasnt specified, but I wouldnt be able to get it out otherwise. I eat it by spoonfuls sometimes, and even Dh likes it. Just made my second btch last night; used a qart in about 5 days.

What did you mean when you said 6 cloves of garlic (other board







) werent doing enough? What did you see at 8-9/day? Im having such a hard time determining what is what. This week has produced the worst symptoms Ive had so far (and they continue). I got a cold, which makes me wonder; *can the yeast resurge when your immunity is down* even though I didnt change a thing about my regiment?, or did these symptoms start b/c I started garlic at that time too, or sodium ascorbate, or b/c Ive just been doing it long enough that Im at the next level of die-off? *Cademyn*, Im having serious intestinal issues; lots of bloating and gas with some discomfort, and a very loose bm in the a.m. This is new. Is is my body flushing toxins - I hope - but WHO KNOWS







:


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
What did you mean when you said 6 cloves of garlic (other board







) werent doing enough? What did you see at 8-9/day? Im having such a hard time determining what is what. This week has produced the worst symptoms Ive had so far (and they continue). I got a cold, which makes me wonder; *can the yeast resurge when your immunity is down* even though I didnt change a thing about my regiment?, or did these symptoms start b/c I started garlic at that time too, or sodium ascorbate, or b/c Ive just been doing it long enough that Im at the next level of die-off? *Cademyn*, Im having serious intestinal issues; lots of bloating and gas with some discomfort, and a very loose bm in the a.m. This is new. Is is my body flushing toxins - I hope - but WHO KNOWS







:

I've read that colds are a way of flushing toxins, so maybe that's what's going on with that. The bloating and stuff definitely sounds like die-off. If it's too uncomfortable you might want to back off a little with the new stuff you've started, or just start one a week if you started garlic and higher doses of vitamin C at the same time. How much sodium ascorbate are you taking? That can definitely cause gas & bloating if you take a lot.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

We're going to visit DH's family for 10 days, so we'll see how it goes with sticking to the diet. I'm bringing some meat with us, DH sent his mom a shopping list for veggies, and we mailed her some CO, EVOO, and spices, along with legal ketchup & salsa...hopefully with all that I won't cheat too many times. I know we'll be eating out a lot, so that will make it difficult. I figure if I only cheat 3x I'll be doing well.

Speaking of cheating...after no cheating for a month I gave myself permission to have a treat yesterday. I'd been craving this coffee cake I used to make from packaged cake mix & pudding mix, so I made that. Ate almost the entire thing myself between eating the batter and then the coffee cake







: Then DH wanted to go out to dinner so we ate Mexican...I don't think I have ever been so full in my entire life. I kept thinking about some verse in the Bible mentioning gluttony is a sin...I'll have to remember that for next time I'm tempted to binge! I'm sure I would have enjoyed my cheat a whole lot more if I'd just eaten less of it, too.

Oh well, I feel fine today (am I the only one who feels perfectly fine after cheating on my diet?). At least I won't be craving coffee cake again for a long long time!


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Its like jello cream. Sort of like ice-cream too. The gelatin makes it set up into a blob-like consistency, but this melts when I add it to hot coffee, so it would surely get looser at room temp (I keep it in fridge, obviously). I keep it in a wide mouth jar, which wasnt specified, but I wouldnt be able to get it out otherwise. I eat it by spoonfuls sometimes, and even Dh likes it. Just made my second btch last night; used a qart in about 5 days.

What did you mean when you said 6 cloves of garlic (other board







) werent doing enough? What did you see at 8-9/day? Im having such a hard time determining what is what. This week has produced the worst symptoms Ive had so far (and they continue). I got a cold, which makes me wonder; *can the yeast resurge when your immunity is down* even though I didnt change a thing about my regiment?, or did these symptoms start b/c I started garlic at that time too, or sodium ascorbate, or b/c Ive just been doing it long enough that Im at the next level of die-off? *Cademyn*, Im having serious intestinal issues; lots of bloating and gas with some discomfort, and a very loose bm in the a.m. This is new. Is is my body flushing toxins - I hope - but WHO KNOWS







:

How much stevia do you put in it? I'll try it.

In the beginning when I started a different candida diet, I was eating 2-4 cloves a day. I had very extensive die-off: full body rashes, other weird mosquito bite looing rashes, headaches, leg cramps, fatigue, stuffy nose.
After the rashes went away and things calmed down I was expecting recovery and healing which didn't happen so I moved on to SCD, started taking CO and making yogurt. Nothing. Went back on garlic, 4-6 cloves a day with food. Nothing. By nothing I mean for several weeks no die-off or improvement.
So now I'm on a strict diet again, no dairy at all, no grain, no beans, no fruit, n honey, no nuts etc, plus I upped the garlic to 3-4 cloves with each meal. the rashes came again but a lot less and lasted for only 1 day. I had a headache and tiredness for a day, and the next day gas, rumbly tummy, next day diarrhea, gas, and now I'm just down to gas and rumbly tummy, but not too bad. I did a few days of cabbage juice but I ran out so I'm taking a little break until the next batch is ready.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Cheating doesn't make me sick like to my stomach or something. I might get new itching and rashes two hours later or even a day later, but other than that I'm OK. However, cheating for me means NT desserts and not SAD desserts. I haven't had a piece of chocolate since November when I discovered the connection.... or a piece of cake, pie, pudding, muffin.....

I have had NT basic muffins and some of the desserts in the book as well as SCD desserts which pretty much stink. Or at least my nut flour things tasted horrible. Oh, except for the cheesecake, I love that one.


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

*Garlic* - the thing is, why wouldnt we *just* have gas and rumbling from the garlic? Raw garlic is very sulfurus. Today Ive eaten none (too rushed this a.m.) and the tummy is fine. .. But now I worry about not killing the yeast! ugh

I have a *rejuvelac question*. Today mine has a (sorry) vomity aftertaste. Needless to say, I cant drink it. I havent started a new batch for about 10 days (where you leave it for 3 days). I wonder if at a certain point it just gets rancid/yeasty? Im making a new batch today.... any thoughts (Ive used this head of cabbage for yesterdays and it was fine. Oh well, maybe I just need to scrub my blender and jar...


----------



## lllmomma (Sep 1, 2003)

Hi there...question for all of you on SCD. Did you feel very hungry at first? I am so hungry and light-headed/confused, I can barely function. I had 3 eggs and cooked apples for b'fast, banana, turkey, nuts for snack, 3 almond flour muffins and 2 chicken legs for lunch and I feel like I haven't eaten anything! I haven't sourced the dry curd cottage cheese for my area yet and have had trouble with dairy in the past so wanted to wait a bit anyway...

Any ideas, etc?


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lllmomma*
Hi there...question for all of you on SCD. Did you feel very hungry at first? I am so hungry and light-headed/confused, I can barely function. I had 3 eggs and cooked apples for b'fast, banana, turkey, nuts for snack, 3 almond flour muffins and 2 chicken legs for lunch and I feel like I haven't eaten anything! I haven't sourced the dry curd cottage cheese for my area yet and have had trouble with dairy in the past so wanted to wait a bit anyway...

Any ideas, etc?

I think you can get it from The Swiss Connection - they have a booth at the farmer's market (though I'm not sure if they actually have it there) else you'd have to drive 1+ hours from B'ton to get it. B'foods MAY have some dccc but I'm not entirely sure - they should be able to get some if you can identify a brand.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lllmomma*
Hi there...question for all of you on SCD. Did you feel very hungry at first? I am so hungry and light-headed/confused, I can barely function. I had 3 eggs and cooked apples for b'fast, banana, turkey, nuts for snack, 3 almond flour muffins and 2 chicken legs for lunch and I feel like I haven't eaten anything! I haven't sourced the dry curd cottage cheese for my area yet and have had trouble with dairy in the past so wanted to wait a bit anyway...

Any ideas, etc?

Do you eat enough fat?
Drench everything with butter, it helps! Put butter on your muffins, too, slice them up like bread. Eat the skin with the chicken if you can.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lllmomma*
Hi there...question for all of you on SCD. Did you feel very hungry at first? I am so hungry and light-headed/confused, I can barely function. I had 3 eggs and cooked apples for b'fast, banana, turkey, nuts for snack, 3 almond flour muffins and 2 chicken legs for lunch and I feel like I haven't eaten anything! I haven't sourced the dry curd cottage cheese for my area yet and have had trouble with dairy in the past so wanted to wait a bit anyway...

Any ideas, etc?

Yes, and I'm still fighting it 2 weeks into it! I usually get to the breaking point and then make something with coconut oil and that does it for me. I think it is definately brought on my the lack of fat. I can't do dairy or eggs, so butter is out for me and so are a lot of the recipes in BTVC. I've made a few of the recipes from pecanbread.com (cary's cookies, the eggless almond flour bread and the eggless cutout cookies) and they aren't the best thing around, but when I get to this point, I can devour them like nobody's business. I've also found the almond butter/coconut oil/vanilla candy works well when I'm in this funk. I've also noticed that this SCD diet is making my emotional state crazy. I'm starting to feel bipolar. Please tell me that it gets better . . .


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

what is the almond butter/coconut oil/vanilla candy? Do you sweeten it with something? What are the ratios?
I tried the chocolate with cocoa, CO and stevia. Yuck.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
what is the almond butter/coconut oil/vanilla candy? Do you sweeten it with something? What are the ratios?
I tried the chocolate with cocoa, CO and stevia. Yuck.

It's called "almond butter candy". It's:

1/4 cup of coconut butter/oil
1 cup of almond butter
1 tbs of vanilla flavoring

Just mix it together, drop by spoonfuls on a cookie sheet (I put it on parchment paper first) and freeze.

It has a little bit of a tart aftertaste, but it grew on me. And it's great to keep in the freezer and just pop in your mouth when you're feeling famished (or crazy, which is more the norm for me lately!)


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

What do you think of Susan Weed's cure for candida overgrowth?

Quote:

To: [email protected]
Subject: diagnosis candida - need help!

Hello Susan,

I have just recently discovered your website and am sponging up all your wonderful, informative writing as fast as I can. I've already placed an order for your books and am waiting anxiously for them but meanwhile, I wonder if you can give me some direction is my ongoing battle with candida-albicans.

In a nutshell, after 2 years of antibiotics, which only made my multitude of symptoms worse, and a highly stressful job and lifestyle, I discovered a naturopath who immediately told me I had candida. For the past year I've been on ALOT of naturopathic capsules (very costly) and have changed my eating habits and food choices to all organic, no sugar or caffeine, only whole grains, very fresh or freshly ground, etc... I've even quit my very stressful job and am seeking freelance work and a more balanced lifestyle. I am married and have a 4 year daughter at home, am 40 years old and fairly fit and active (working to improve my exercise patterns)

The capsules and supplements I take now are:

Zypan - stomach acid
Zymex - slow fix for candida
Drenamin - ? not exactly sure but think it's supposed to sort of lure
candida away from vital organs while we're working on eliminating it?
DHA - brain food
Calcium
Catalyn - vitamin supplement
Garlic - standard capsule

Teas - drink lots of Yerbamate and Paul D'arco loose teas daily with stevia - and have just started using Paul D'arco tea as a douche to try to put out the fires of my yeast infections.

Anyway, I still struggle daily with yeast infections and the cough after eating from not digesting my food (bad gut flora levels-I take Zypan for my digestive needs), and alot of sinus mucus along with various negative emotional effects do you know of other herbals that could help me recover from this faster and less expensively?

Signed, Desperate for health

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Candida is a helper. It is keeping you healthy!

Susun's response:

Oh dear. From my point of view you are doing the worst things in the world to try to help yourself. Let me explain.

Candida overgrowth results from lack of gut flora (killed by antibiotics in your case, but also killed by chlorine in the water, preservatives in food, and essential oils in your environment).

Candida is a helper. It is keeping you healthy! You need it. But not so much of it.

What would convince it to ease off? More gut flora! You need to eat lots of moldy, yeasty, bacteria rich foods like yogurt and sour dough bread and homemade wines and unwashed fruit (for the molds on the skins) and miso and sauerkraut. I know. I know. This doctor told you to avoid all those foods. I can only tell you that I have helped people who have had candida for over a decade, people who have taken all the (expensive) pills, people who have eaten strict diets, people who have done everything they though was right but still weren't healthy and still had symptoms. After 7-10 days on the fermented, moldy, yeasty, bacteria rich diet they are smiling and feeling great!!

My friend Ryan Drum has also treated hundreds of candida cleanse failures. His remedy is the same, only more simple. He has you stir a big spoonful of organic garden soil into a glass of water and drink it daily for a month. Gets those molds, yeasts, bacteria, and fungi back in the gut where they belong. I also see that the stores are selling pills of soil micro organism, so if you are really into pills, you could choose that option.But it is ever so much more fum (and less expensive) to just eat blue cheese, etc.

My suggestions to replace your drugs:
Dandelion root tincture, 20 drops before meals instead of Zypan
Yogurt, etc instead of Zymex
Candida does not get into any organs, it stays in the intestines. So avoid Drenamin
Nourish your brain with whole grains and cooked greens. Avoid soy, and stop taking DHA.
Calcium makes brittle bones. Instead drink nourishing herbal infusions and eat yogurt.
A cup of nettle infusion has 500mg calcium. A cup of yogurt has 450mg of calcium.
There are no vitamins in pills. Vitamins are enzymes produced by living tissues. All pills contain laboratory make synthetics and cause disease. Those who take as little as 500mg of vitamin C a day for a year create blood vessels that look twice their age. Throw away your Catalyn.
Consumer reports found that garlic powder, like you buy in the supermarket had more effect that any garlic capsule on the market. Costs a lot less too. Even fresh garlic works better. Cook with it. Roast it. Eat it on toast. Make it into pesto. Be creative, but throw out the pills.

Instead of Yerbamate which is full of caffeine, try nourishing herbal infusions if nettle or oatstraw or comfrey leaf or red clover. All of them will help your gut. Pau D'arco will kill gut flora. Please stop drinking it. Stevia could also make things worse as it is so sweet. Try to do without it for a while if you could.

If you have a vaginal yeast infection, it is NOT related to candida. Same organism, almost, but with a different lifestyle. First, eat yogurt. Then, put yogurt into your vagina. Do this for at least ten days. If symptoms do not go within a week, you have a bacterial infection, not a yeast infection. If so, you could put a peeled clove of garlic inside, near the cervix for 10-14 days to challenge the bacteria. Be prepared to smell like garlic if you choose this option. But please don't use Pau D'arco or anything else as a douche. Douches cause vaginal infections!!!

So these are my opinions. They are based on my extensive and ongoing research and my work with people over the past 35 years. We are all different and what has helped some others may not help you. But it might









Let me know how it goes for you. Helps me help others.

Green Blessings,

Susun Weed
from: http://www.susunweed.com/herbal_ezin..._Mar-02.htm#q2


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou*
Yes, and I'm still fighting it 2 weeks into it! I usually get to the breaking point and then make something with coconut oil and that does it for me. I think it is definately brought on my the lack of fat. I can't do dairy or eggs, so butter is out for me and so are a lot of the recipes in BTVC. I've made a few of the recipes from pecanbread.com (cary's cookies, the eggless almond flour bread and the eggless cutout cookies) and they aren't the best thing around, but when I get to this point, I can devour them like nobody's business. I've also found the almond butter/coconut oil/vanilla candy works well when I'm in this funk. I've also noticed that this SCD diet is making my emotional state crazy. I'm starting to feel bipolar. Please tell me that it gets better . . .









Yes it will get better. I think we've all been through the emotional part of this. It won't last long.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou*
It's called "almond butter candy". It's:

1/4 cup of coconut butter/oil
1 cup of almond butter
1 tbs of vanilla flavoring

Just mix it together, drop by spoonfuls on a cookie sheet (I put it on parchment paper first) and freeze.

It has a little bit of a tart aftertaste, but it grew on me. And it's great to keep in the freezer and just pop in your mouth when you're feeling famished (or crazy, which is more the norm for me lately!)

I make mine w/honey and leave out the vanilla. They're good!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Sorry for the confusion...calendula oil was recommended by my homeopath, but it is not homeopathic. Just get it by a reputable company (Herb Pharm, Gaia etc.) I'm sure what you found is fine. Calendula is very good at repairing and soothing skin.

I was starving to death my first two weeks on the SCD. I ate PLENTY of fat. I think it was just part of detox. My body (well, the yeast) wanted carbs and since I wasn't eating them I just didn't get full. After the withdrawal stopped I was fine and eating much less. You may just need to hang in there. You could be getting rid of an addiction. It gets better.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I may get shot here, but theoretically Susun Weed's protocol is great. I have never tried it so I can't speak for it's efficacy. However, when you study this stuff from an organic perspective she's dead on. That response is very confusing though. She says calcium makes brittle bones-not true. If you are getting it from a synthetic source it can be true but there are many other factors here. Regardless she then goes on to say that herbal infusions have more calcium that yogurt. But you just told us that calcium is bad? I know what she means, but it's confusing. She also says that candida does not leave the intestines. That isn't true. It grows through the intestines, gets into the bloodstream and absolutely can infect other organs. There is MUCH evidence that proves this. It isn't just a theory. Another thing that bothered me is that cooking garlic kills the allicin which is the antifungal agent. Soooooo, son't ever cook it or roast it. It needs to be raw to be fully effective. This is also why deoderized garlic pills DON'T WORK. Reading that response would turn me off to her work, if I didn't already love her.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I have had horrible cravings too. Everytime I start a new step in the process I get them, I just added candex this week. I try not to cheat but inevitably I do and I binge. Not a whole coffee cake...yet







. I think part of my craving is that I feel deprived of textures, especially crunchy. If eating carbs is an addiction, will I ever get over it?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I think we are going to switch to the program on candidasupport. Really at this point it is such a small step from where we are that it is hardly noticable. I'm hopeful that it will fill in some gaps for us. Sadly it doesn't let us add back in a single food and makes us eliminate a couple more.







If it works we will all be happier.

So I'm working on incresing my intake of fats. Never thought I would say that. I also didn't realize how difficult that can be! I need some ideas on how to get more CO into me w/o nuts, fruit, or dairy that doesn't include taking it straight. Increasing dd's fats is easy. I'm just feeding her pats of butter. She is thrilled. Guess I shouldn't have been fighting this in her. (she has craved butter for a long time).

I think that this program will be somewhat easier and cheaper. I'm not sure what to do about all the extra suppliments I have been taking. I think I'll keep them up untill the bottles run out.

Oh and I cured my fathers leg cramps while I was home. Got him taking magnesium and he is thrilled. This wasn't the first time I tried to convince him that magnesium was his problem but it was the first time it sank in. My mother however was hopeless. She just doesn't want to go through die off. In general they nit picked my parenting so much that I didn't want to start any deep conversations anyhow.







: This was one vacation that I wish I hadn't bothered taking. It was far more work than staying home would have been and no rest or relaxation. Silly me thinking my parents would be supportive of me at this time. I sure hope I can figure out how to overcome this programing and not do the same thing to my amazing DD. I don't want her to have to move half way across the country as an adult just to escape me and live her own life.


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I think we are going to switch to the program on candidasupport. Really at this point it is such a small step from where we are that it is hardly noticable. I'm hopeful that it will fill in some gaps for us. Sadly it doesn't let us add back in a single food and makes us eliminate a couple more.







If it works we will all be happier.

So I'm working on incresing my intake of fats. Never thought I would say that. I also didn't realize how difficult that can be! I need some ideas on how to get more CO into me w/o nuts, fruit, or dairy that doesn't include taking it straight. Increasing dd's fats is easy. I'm just feeding her pats of butter. She is thrilled. Guess I shouldn't have been fighting this in her. (she has craved butter for a long time).

I think that this program will be somewhat easier and cheaper. I'm not sure what to do about all the extra suppliments I have been taking. I think I'll keep them up untill the bottles run out.

Oh and I cured my fathers leg cramps while I was home. Got him taking magnesium and he is thrilled. This wasn't the first time I tried to convince him that magnesium was his problem but it was the first time it sank in. My mother however was hopeless. She just doesn't want to go through die off. In general they nit picked my parenting so much that I didn't want to start any deep conversations anyhow.







: This was one vacation that I wish I hadn't bothered taking. It was far more work than staying home would have been and no rest or relaxation. Silly me thinking my parents would be supportive of me at this time. I sure hope I can figure out how to overcome this programing and not do the same thing to my amazing DD. I don't want her to have to move half way across the country as an adult just to escape me and live her own life.

Psst there's a september thread


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I think we are going to switch to the program on candidasupport. Really at this point it is such a small step from where we are that it is hardly noticable. I'm hopeful that it will fill in some gaps for us. Sadly it doesn't let us add back in a single food and makes us eliminate a couple more.







If it works we will all be happier.

So I'm working on incresing my intake of fats. Never thought I would say that. I also didn't realize how difficult that can be! I need some ideas on how to get more CO into me w/o nuts, fruit, or dairy that doesn't include taking it straight. Increasing dd's fats is easy. I'm just feeding her pats of butter. She is thrilled. Guess I shouldn't have been fighting this in her. (she has craved butter for a long time).

I think that this program will be somewhat easier and cheaper. I'm not sure what to do about all the extra suppliments I have been taking. I think I'll keep them up untill the bottles run out.

Oh and I cured my fathers leg cramps while I was home. Got him taking magnesium and he is thrilled. This wasn't the first time I tried to convince him that magnesium was his problem but it was the first time it sank in. My mother however was hopeless. She just doesn't want to go through die off. In general they nit picked my parenting so much that I didn't want to start any deep conversations anyhow.







: This was one vacation that I wish I hadn't bothered taking. It was far more work than staying home would have been and no rest or relaxation. Silly me thinking my parents would be supportive of me at this time. I sure hope I can figure out how to overcome this programing and not do the same thing to my amazing DD. I don't want her to have to move half way across the country as an adult just to escape me and live her own life.

Already you are breaking your parent's mold. Sorry your parents aren't supportive or open to new ideas. *sigh* it is just easier for some to put up with the status quo. You are already doing the best you can for your DD by healing her through diet.

I am on similar dietary restrictions (no dairy, no fruit) At this time I just do not have the willpower to give up a few more things. Right now my treat is coconut milk yogurt, it is pretty yummy. Good luck with the candidasupport diet. Can you cook with coconut milk? I make a lot of curry using curry paste and a can of coconut milk







. I tried stevia







I don't recommend spending the money on it.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

The September thread is here:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=512825


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