# THE Iodine Thread



## JaneS

Disorders connected to iodine deficiency: all thyroid disorders, ovarian cysts/PCOS and insulin resistance, uterine fibroids, infertility and menstrual problems, fibrocystic breast disease, fibromyalgia, low stomach acid, various autoimmune diseases, and cancers of the breast, ovarian, prostate, uterine and thyroid. Among others.

Quite a list isn't it? Read on dear mamas, we have a lot of ground to cover. I will be posting several threads in a row to continue.

*We have iodine receptors all over our body.*
The mineral iodine is an essential one. Essential for the health of many more organs and hormones and bodily processes than just the thyroid. We have receptors for iodine not just on the thyroid but also: the breast, uterus, prostate, skin, pancreas, saliva glands, stomach, intestines, choroid plexus (brain) and eye.

Iodine is required by every single cell in the body. It is connected to the manufacture of every hormone in the body including estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, insulin, aldosterone, etc. So it starts to make sense that deficiency can lead to so many different disorders other than the more commonly known goiter.

*Current studies show that iodine is needed in many times more than the RDA.*
The RDA is 150 micrograms for an average adult and more for pregnancy and lactation. The total body load of iodine that can be stored in the thyroid is 50 milligrams and the total body load for iodine sufficiency is 1,500 milligrams. Since a microgram is 1/1000th of a milligram, one quickly sees the falacy of the RDA. It was based on the minimum amount of iodine to prevent goiter and cretinism. I will show that it is not enough to ensure the health of the body as a whole.

*The storage of iodine in the body receptors are influenced by the toxins we consume.*
Many of you may have heard of *goitrogens*. The term is commonly used for foods which eaten regularly can lead to development of a goiter: the cabbage family and soy. They inhibit iodine utilization and are known to lead to thyroid disorders. They can also inhibit the transfer of iodine to breastmilk. However&#8230;

*There is a whole other class of goitrogens which are chemical toxins: the halogens.*
Halogens (aka halides) are in the same chemical family as iodine. They displace iodine and block receptors in the body leading to malfunction of various organs and bodily systems.

Some iodine blockers are so ubiquitous in our modern life that you might not even think are necessarily "toxic" such as fluoride and chlorine. Fluoride and chorine inhibit iodine. Bromide (aka bromine) is a major goitrogen which can be in bread and bakery products, fruits and vegetables, flame retardants, swimming pool and hot tub disinfectants, sodas and Gatorade, and prescription drugs including some SSRIs. Bromides inhibit iodine and can be stored in iodine receptors in iodine's place, like all other halogens.

There are also other toxins which are more well known to be dangerous such as mercury, nitrates and perchlorate. These also block iodine and can attach to the iodine receptors in the body.

Iodine researchers now think that coupled with the reduced iodine present in the modern diet, coupled with our increased toxic load, is one of the major causes leading to the epidemic of diseases related to iodine deficiency.

Breast cancer alone, in that 1 in 7 women will get it in their lifetime, is reason enough to learn more about iodine.

_To be continued...._


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## ChristSavesAll

Who hoo! It's here! Let me know how I can help!


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## JaneS

*Iodine: The Original Traditional Medicine*
One hundred years ago, iodine in the form of Lugol's solution, was depended upon by almost every single physician in the U.S. to treat hypo and hyper thyroid disorders and also as a panacea for a multitude of diseases.

Nobel laureate Albert Szent Györgyi, the physician who discovered vitamin C in 1928 and who was a medical student in the early 1900s, wrote:

Quote:

_"When I was a medical student, iodine in the form of KI [potassium iodide] was the universal medicine. Nobody knew what it did, but it did something and did something good.

We students used to sum up the situation in this little rhyme: 'If ye don't know where, what, and why, prescribe ye then K and I.' "_
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-14/PUB_14.htm
Current clinicians and researchers utilizing *Orthoiodosupplementation* (which means supplementation of iodine to full body sufficiency) believe that the observations of those first physicians were absolutely correct. And to reach full body sufficiency will take anywhere from 2 drops to 8 drops of Lugol's (12.5 mg - 50mg) per day or more, depending on toxin exposure. Two drops or 12.5 mg is estimated to be the amount both the breasts and the thyroid need every day after full body sufficiency is reached.
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

*You can't rely on iodized salt.*
There is only one form of iodine added to salt: iodide. Research has shown that only 10% is actually bioavailable and it can also evaporate. Salt also does not contain the second form (iodine) that other body tissues like the breasts prefer. Traditional Lugol's solution provides both iodine and potassium iodide for both the thyroid and other body receptors.

Quote:

In 1831, French chemist and agronomist JG Boussingault31 proposed iodized sodium chloride (table salt) as a means of preventing goiter. Such proposal was implemented first in Europe and then in the 1920s in the US. Following Marine's study, absence of goiter, not overall performance was the endpoint relied upon for assessing iodine sufficiency. Iodization of salt gave a false sense of iodine sufficiency and resulted in the public relying on iodized salt for supplementation instead of the previously used forms of iodine and iodide such as the Lugol solution in the recommended daily amount of 0.1-0.3 ml containing 12.5-37.5 mg elemental iodine.4 In order to ingest 12.5 mg of elemental iodine from salt, one would have to consume 165 g of salt; and obviously three times that amount of salt would be required for supplying 37.5 mg elemental iodine.3,5 Besides, table salt in the US contains iodide only, not iodine. Iodine is very important for normal function of breast tissue.3 Therefore, supplementation should contain both forms, iodine and iodide.

*The implementation of iodization of table salt in the US was associated with the appearance of autoimmune thyroiditis*. In several communities worldwide, an increased incidence of chronic autoimmune thyroiditis was reported following implementation of iodization of sodium chloride.32 In areas of the US where this relationship has been studied, mainly in the Great Lakes region, a similar trend was reported. In 1966 and 1968, Weaver, et al,33,34 from Ann Arbor Michigan reported: "The salient histopathological feature of the thyroid glands, removed at operation in a five-year period before iodine prophylaxis (1915-1920), was the paucity of lymphocytes in their parenchyma, and, more importantly, the absence of thyroiditis of any form ... It should be emphasized that the thyroid glands prior to the use of iodized salt were devoid of lymphocytes, and nodular colloid goiters with dense lymphocytic infiltrates were found after the introduction of iodized salt in 1924."

It is of interest to note that prior to iodization of salt, autoimmune thyroiditis was almost non-existent in the US, although Lugol solution and potassium iodide were used extensively in medical practice in amounts two orders of magnitude greater than the average daily amount ingested from iodized salt. This suggests that inadequate iodide intake aggravated by goitrogens, not excess iodide, was the cause of this condition.2 Of interest is the fact that autoimmune thyroiditis cannot be induced by inorganic iodide in laboratory animals unless combined with goitrogens, therefore inducing iodine deficiency.
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-14/PUB_14.htm
One slice of bread used to contain the RDA of iodine. Now toxic bromide that competes with the iodine receptors in the body is routinely added to bread as a dough conditioner. The conventional dairy industry used to use more iodine for disinfection and supplementation than it does today. Basic food sources have ceased to provide us with the iodine we need.

In addition, more fluoride is consumed today than at any other time in history due to toothpastes, dental treatments and water supplementation. Mercury from dental fillings and environmental pollution is at an all time high. Nitrates are in all processed meats (deli, sausage, bacon, etc.) Perchlorate contamination is making the news frequently and blamed for cancer increases and thyroid disorders.

Quote:

A startling new study by the federal Centers for Disease Control (CDC) says minute traces of a toxic rocket fuel chemical [perchlorate] found in milk, fruit vegetables and drinking water supplies nationwide lowers essential thyroid hormones in women.
http://www.ewg.org/node/20902
Even newborns have high body burdens of receptor clogging toxins
*EWG Report: Body Burden - The Pollution in Newborns*
http://www.ewg.org/reports/bodyburde...#familyresults

*Bromides and Bromism: what this toxin can do to you*

A stated before bromide can be added to breads, processed flours, sodas, nuts and oils. It is also present in some seaweeds and other plants, and is in Celexa, Paxil, Prozac and other pharmaceuticals.

Quote:

They [bromides/bromines] lessen the activity of the brain cells, producing somnolence; diminish the sensibility of the peripheral nerves, causing anaesthesia of the skin and mucous membranes. They impair motility and the sexual function, cause great pallor and emaciation, lowered body-temperature, acne on the face and upper extremities, fetid breath, dysphagia, sluggish reflexes and defective coordination; and if long continued may even impair the mental faculties, producing hallucinations in some cases, in others melancholia with suicidal tendency; also incompetence of the sphincters and paralysis, beginning at the periphery and extending to the centres. The general result of their action is termed "Bromism," and is heralded by the acne and lowered faucial sensibility. It is probably due to the sedative influence of these agents on the sympathetic system, causing general anaemia of the brain, spinal cord, sexual organs, and skin.
http://www.henriettesherbal.com/ecle...p/bromine.html
If you are experiencing negative symptoms with iodine supplementation, the problem is usually *bromine detox*, caused by kicking bromide out of the receptor sites and stocking healthy iodine. The treatment is nutritional support, celtic sea salt flushes and increased fluid intake. Taking a break and then starting gradually increasing iodine dosages may be required.

*As stated before, mercury also binds to receptor sites in the thyroid.* For those mamas concerned about heavy metals and interested in chelation might consider iodine as a primary treatment as thyroid hormones can be a potent inhibitor of lipid peroxidization, more than other established antioxidants. Dr. David Brownstein has said that he has employed urine testing and noted increased excretion of mercury, arsenic, lead and other metals (in addition to bromide and other halogens) with iodine therapy.

Thyroxine and reverse T3 were found to be more effective in antioxidant activity than vitamin E, glutathione, ascorbic acid and DTT.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6708757

I know that Andrew Cutler, PhD the developer of the low and slow method of mercury chelation, has stated that iodine is not a mercury chelator. So I look forward to exploring this issue further with the "Chelating mamas".








_
To be continued..._


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## Theloose

:
Talk about the right information at the right time!








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## JaneS

Another compelling argument for the human body's natural load of iodine may be 100 times the RDA is the increased iodine intake in the Japanese:

Quote:

...there is a large population consuming close to 100 times the RDA almost daily, the Japanese living in Japan. According to the Japanese Ministry of Health, the average daily consumption of seaweed by mainland Japanese is 4.6 gm(22). At an average of 0.3% I in seaweed (range 0.08-0.45%) (22), that would compute to an *average daily intake of 13.8 mg I[odine]*. Overall, the Japanese living in Japan are among the healthiest people in the world, based on cancer statistics (23). They have one of the lowest incidence of I-deficiency goiter and hypothyroidism (10).
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-02/IOD_02.htm
*Iodine Protocol*
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/iprotocol.html
*
David Brownstein MD*
Book "IODINE: Why you need it why you can't live without it"
https://www.drbrownstein.com/bookstore_Iodine.php

Interview with
http://www.healthtruthrevealed.com/a...912805/article

*Guy Abraham MD*
Researcher of orthoiodosupplementation together with Brownstein and Flechas. Developer of iodine loading test and Iodoral tablets (which is Lugol's solution in tablet form).
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

Quote:

Iodine is not only necessary for the production of thyroid hormones; it is also responsible for the production of all the other hormones in the body.
-David Brownstein MD
*Orthoiodosupplementation in a Primary Care Practice
Jorge D. Flechas, M.D.*
-Iodine reverses fibrocystic breast disease
-Diabetic patients require less insulin.
-Hypothyroid patients require less thyroid medication.
-Symptoms of fibromyalgia resolve.
-Migraines are stopped.
-Greater sense of well being.
-Brain fog lifted.
-Warmer in cold environments.
-Improved skin and more regular bowel function.
-Every hormone in the body is effected by iodine's action on hormone receptors.
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-10/IOD_10.htm
*
Other uses for iodine: an ideal replacement for antibiotics?*
Mark Sircus Ac. OMD recommends the topical antiseptic containing iodine, Betadine, for ear infections instead of antibiotics http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...indexed=google

Sircus even goes so far as to call iodine the one thing that can save us when antiobiotics cannot with respect to ever increasing infectious disease risk - more deaths from infectious diseases as a whole and antibiotic resistant bacteria - we now face.

Quote:

After we understand that iodine is an excellent antiviral, antibacterial, anti fungal, mold and yeast agent we begin to glimpse the catastrophic mistake made for substituting pharmaceutical antibiotics for iodine&#8230;
only iodine is capable of killing all classes of pathogens: gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria, mycobacteria, fungi, yeasts, viruses and protozoa&#8230;
Every 17 minutes, every drop of blood in our body flushes through our thyroid, and if our thyroid has an adequate supply of iodine, blood-borne bacteria and viruses are killed off as the blood passes through the thyroid.
-Mark A. Sircus Ac. OMD

Quote:

No virus, bacteria or parasite has been shown to be resistant to iodine therapy
-David Brownstein MD
Unlike antibiotics, iodine appears supportive of our nascent immune system anchored by our good bacteria/probiotics. Dr. Brownstein's practice has treated thousands of patients with the iodine protocol and has stated he has never seen dysbiotic reactions to its use: iodine leaves healthy gut flora intact Personally, I have seen only benefit for my digestion.
_
To be continued..._


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## Zenzero

:

Fabulous! Thank you so much for doing this.


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## lil_miss_understood

Haven't read or anything, just subbing for now.


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## linguistmama

Thanks you for all of this!







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## JaneS

Read the MDC thread that inspired my post:
Nichole's story of healing herself and her DH from anxiety, depression, migraines, thyroid problems and more.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1077629
her website: www.theiodineproject.com

Other MDC mamas are describing "euphoria" like feelings with iodine supplementation:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1088801

*My experience thus far, stay tuned&#8230;*
Personally I have seen improvement in digestion: stomach acid and bile flow with just one drop of Lugol's per day. I can't tease out benefits specifically about mood and energy b/c I've been doing other nutritional interventions which also have played a role for me (B vits, omega 3, vitamin D). Although remember nutrition does work in concert, not solo.

My goal is to work up to the 8 drops per day (50 mg. of iodine and iodide) supporting detox with transdermal magnesium, celtic sea salt flushes, selenium and vitamin C. I have to say it's been hard, and I wonder if my mercury load is an issue. I keep stopping and starting. I am detoxing bromide (headaches and mind numbing fatigue). It definitely helped my body temperature increase.

Now that I'm reminded about the necessity of iodine and my particular need for it (if I was detoxing bromide, and I know my mercury burden is high, ergo my receptors are clogged and I'm risking the development of disease). My AM temps have still not been consistent, so clearly my thyroid is still impaired, another indication my body needs more iodine. I haven't even been following the 12.5 mg maintenance dose b/c of my reluctance over initial detox symptoms. (What a dope! Oh well it's good to have new goals, right?)

*Iodine Loading Test:*
http://cypress.he.net/~bigmacnc/drflechas/iodine.htm
http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?pag...7&qid=&zTYPE=2 (link to test kit is on the right)

Sources for Testing:
http://iodine4health.com/ortho/iodin...st_sources.htm

http://www.hakalalabs.com/
Hakalah will send to you w/o a dr. px (ex. NY and CA) but Flechas lab is supposed to be the best (which is the first link above... although it sounds like Flechas can be assigned as your doctor. Need to confirm this.

I think VRP sends to Flechas, need to confirm this with them.

If you excrete 90% of the iodine in your urine, your body load is sufficient. Brownstein says that those who excrete 10% or less he orders an immediate cancer work up. For those of you with more serious health conditions such as fibroids, cysts, cancer, thyroid disorders, or questions about safety or necessity, this test might be a good idea.

*Thyroid Disease & Meds*
Anyone on thyroid medication (Armour, Synthroid etc.) needs to be monitored by a clinician familiar with orthoiodosupplementation protocol. Iodine will likely make your need for medication go down. Also get a consult on Graves or Hashimoto's as those can be even more complex. However, be aware that all of these conditions have improved or resolved in clinical practice with iodine, it can be said that iodine deficiency is the root cause of all of them.

*Iodine Literate Practitioners*
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/ipractitioners.html

*One final note: complementary nutritional support is essential for the iodine protocol and utilization of iodine in general.*
Particularly selenium and magnesium.

Quote:

If selenium levels are inadequate, the thyroid gland cannot utilize iodine correctly.
- David Brownstein MD
Selenium deficiency alone will prevent the conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver. Selenium deficiency will also prevent breakdown of estrogen leading to estrogen dominance disorders.

Iodine and/or selenium deficiency may modify the distribution and the homeostasis of other minerals&#8230; Fe, Mn, Cu, and Zn, the essential trace elements associated with oxidant and/or antioxidant processes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...t=AbstractPlus

Magnesium should be emphasized over calcium states Guy Abraham, MD. Up to 1200 mg. a day may be needed esp. in cases of bromism detox. Also vitamin C and B complex are mentioned by iodine researchers. Celtic sea salt flushes are helpful for detox symptoms (headache, fatigue, etc.) I would also add high vitamin cod liver oil (Blue Ice or Radiant Life) because A and D are so essential for the hormonal and immune system. Your hormones simply will not be produced without the raw materials provided by the right amount of nutrients and imo the sole reason why one experiences a hormonal disorder. There is a list of companion nutrients above at the protocol link.

Quote:

"For every molecule of pesticide [and I would state simply 'molecule of toxin'] that your body detoxifies, you throw away or use up forever, a molecule of glutathione, magnesium and more," says Dr. Sherry Rogers who goes on to say that, "Your body uses nutrients to make this glutathione and it uses up energy as well. Every time we detoxify a chemical, we use up, lose, throw away forever, a certain amount of nutrients."
http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/Liodine2.htm


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## JaneS

Anyone can sub by going to the top of the thread and clicking on "Thread Tools".

Not that I at all mind seeing your lovely "faces" at my party!







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## JaneS

*Cysts and Nodules*

Iodine deficiency is now thought to be the primary cause of thyroid cysts and nodules, breast pain and benign cysts (fibrocystic breast disease), uterine fibroids, cyst on ovaries, and prostate enlargement. These abnormal cells do not die off and can lead to cancer. In the presence of lack of iodine, the tissues expand to try to capture more. That is why on an orthoiodiosupplementation protocol, these cysts have been shown to gradually disappear.

And also fibromyalgia, where the muscles may striate due to iodine deficiency.

Quote:

Fibromyalgia is a common clinical syndrome of generalized musculoskeletal pain, stiffness, and chronic aching, characterized by reproducible tenderness on palpitation of specific anatomical sites, called tender points.10 Fibromyalgia is nine times more common in middle-aged women (between the ages of 30 and 50 years) than in men. The association of fibromyalgia with chronic fatigue syndrome has been reported.11 We previously proposed that fibromyalgia is caused by deficiencies of substances needed in ATP synthesis.10The role of iodine in ATP synthesis and in normal functions of striated muscles is presently unknown. In severely iodine-deficient individuals, the thyroid gland takes the lion's share (70- 80%) of the total body iodine pool. However, in iodine sufficient individuals, the maximum iodine content of the thyroid gland (50 mg) represents only 3% of the total body iodine of 1,500 mg at sufficiency.3 Striated muscles contain 33% of the total body iodine in iodine sufficient individuals.17
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-20/IOD_20.htm


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## amis2girls

Iodine for fibroids? Really?

I just got prescribed KI drops for a completely different condition. Hmm...


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## JaneS

Which one?


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## amis2girls

SSKI drops for panniculitis


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## JaneS

Also I forgot to say that considering that there are iodine receptors in the salivary glands, pancreas, stomach and gastric mucosa...

I wonder what the implications are for iodine deficiencies and gut health?


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amis2girls* 
SSKI drops for panniculitis

Different but similarly an issue with cyst formation!


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
Who hoo! It's here! Let me know how I can help!


Hey you! I just saw your post. Jump in anytime! and thank you again for starting this incredibly important topic.


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## JTA Mom

This is an interesting topic. I suffer from a lot of the 'symptoms' that iodine is supposed to fix. I'm getting majorly confused though about the standard protocol to follow, as well as the pros/cons of it (like, I'm still bf my son, can I take iodine while doing this?). As for all of the tests, are there any that don't require $$$$? It's not like insurance covers this (as if I even have it,







). Also, the list of supplementation seems high: iodine, AND magnesium, AND cod liver oil. Plus more if detoxing???

Any step-by step info on what to supplement & how, please?

Ami


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## Mama~Love

Subbing, as I think iodine deficiency is a major cause of my problems. I've been feeling a lot better since I started supplementing! I'm still in the early stages, but I can see a definite increase in my energy level already.


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## JaneS

Ami,

This is a protocol link but step by step, I'm not sure I can say. The experience once you start dosing and need for body sufficiency can be so individual.
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/iprotocol.html

The test where you paint a large patch iodine on your skin has been called ineffective by the iodine researchers b/c it evaporates (Guy Abraham's research), but others have said it's helpful.

As far as how much to take, Brownstein/Flechas/Abraham say that you need 12.5mg per day of iodine/iodide after reaching full body sufficiency. They use dosages of 50 mg or more for 3 months or more to reach sufficiency and this is confirmed by the loading test.

Lugol's solution can be obtained at a compounding pharmacy near you. A bottle will last you a year and was about $15 when I bought it. Remember to check the % however, as the number of drops (2 to 8 or more) recommended by Abraham/Brownstein/Flechas is in traditional Lugol's solution of 5% iodine, 10% potassium iodide, and 85% water. There are other Lugols mixtures online and it gets quite confusing.

Iodoral tablets are more precise measurement of dosage and easier to take, but of course more expensive.

IHerb has Iosol, which is more diluted than Lugol's solution (1.83mg per drop), and is very inexpensive. Not sure how the dosage on that should correlate with the volumes of clinical experience on Lugol's/Iodoral. They recommend less and say Lugol's is inferior and Iosol more bioavailable. Sorry to be even more confusing but it's hard for me to know for sure. Perhaps we can find out more as this thread continues.

Iodine therapy might require a large commitment to detoxing. I know it is for me and my past experiences with it just didn't jive with the chaos of my life in the last 2 years, so here I am now trying again. It doesn't seem to as big an issue for others though, the majority of cases as I understand it just improve with iodine! Only you can determine whether it's worth it for the potential of solving your current issues and preventing future ones.

Each of the supplements has a specific reason why it is recommended, mostly for antioxidant support while detoxing and support of various body functions that will not work in presence of a deficiency. Most of them (selenium, magnesium, vitamins A/D) are typically low in most people anyway! Deficiencies in any of these nutrients can cause disease states (such as depression, thyroid and immune dysfunction, et al) on their own.


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## Theloose

So iodine detoxes halides and other heavy metals including mercury and arsenic. What's a nursing and/or pregnant mom to do? I've also heard that iodine changes the taste of your milk (and generally not for the better).

Is starting slow enough? Do the benefits outweigh the risks, even with no precautions? Are there other precautions to take? How does opening detox pathways fit in? Age of nursling? How about supplementing the nursling?

I think my detox pathways are stuck closed and that iodine might just open them for me. Is there any way to know besides just trying it? My history says I'm very likely to be bromide toxic, so I'm kind of wary.

Are there ways of telling how toxic you are in advance of taking a loading dose?

Anyone with answers or ideas or just other angles of looking at it is welcome to comment! As far as I know (I did my research about a year ago), a lot of these questions just haven't been answered yet. But now the benefits are stacking up for me and so I want to minimize the risks to dd...


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## Panserbjorne

WhoMe, I tend to research things to death and for ME the benefits outweighed the risk. I chose to start at 50 mg (which is on the higher side) after I was tested. When I began I had a newborn and a toddler nursing. The little one was somewhere between 4 and 6 weeks. I had no issues at all (likely as a result of pituitary issues as I experienced no discomfort even starting at that dosage) and only had benefits. I felt better immediately following the loading test. My milk didn't change taste-wise as far as I know (dd would've told me.)

I've been on it for 3 years now (wow!) and the benefits have remained the same but it didn't do all of what I expected it to do. It didn't clear our metals and glutathione was a necessary part of our process.

I still say that support while nursing is important not only to open the pathways, but to minimize the risk to the nursling as you begin. But hey, that's me! There is also a whole supplement list that is deemed necessary and I feel that is true.

At this point we all take it, dh and kiddos all get it directly as well. We are doing well on it and honestly if you have the risk factors my feeling is that if you start slowly (unlike me!) the benefits do outweigh the risks, by a LOT. Especially for your child. Thyroid hormone is passed via breastmilk and if you are deficient in iodine you likely aren't passing it in sufficient amounts. There is a major benefit to the nursling. Plus if they are getting iodine they are able to detox at the same time....just support the pathways!


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## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
I still say that support while nursing is important not only to open the pathways, but to minimize the risk to the nursling as you begin. But hey, that's me! There is also a whole supplement list that is deemed necessary and I feel that is true.

At this point we all take it, dh and kiddos all get it directly as well. We are doing well on it and honestly if you have the risk factors my feeling is that if you start slowly (unlike me!) the benefits do outweigh the risks, by a LOT. Especially for your child. Thyroid hormone is passed via breastmilk and if you are deficient in iodine you likely aren't passing it in sufficient amounts. There is a major benefit to the nursling. Plus if they are getting iodine they are able to detox at the same time....just support the pathways!

Yeah, I tend to research things to death too, but sometimes I get impatient and learn more by just doing. I've already decided that for us, iodine while nursing is a path I want to go down, and it's time to start down that path. So now I'm trying to figure out the details. I obviously want to do it as safely as possible, but haven't found anyone IRL that I can turn to. So I'm talking it out here







(some people like to learn by example, right?)

Are you saying your approach is to put in place all the iodine support nutrients, then add iodine? How do I know if my pathways are supported enough? Can I just assume that since I know what the pathways are and what the nutrients are, I'll be able to support with if/when it comes up? How urgent of a thing is it? If it takes me a few days/a week/a month to realize that something is blocked, have I done major harm? I'm thinking my major toxin is bromine, and not mercury, if it matters.

If I start dd on the protocol before me so that she's better able to process the junk I throw at her, how long before are we talking? Should she be all the way on maintenance before I start? Is just a day or two long enough? I know it's all very individual, but I'm looking for a ballpark.


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## FireWithin

Just starting to read this. Thanks so much Jane. Look forward to adding another major piece to my health puzzle.


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## AngelBee

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## Periwinkle

THank you for starting this Jane!

Does anyone have a link where you can order the iodine excretion urine test? I clicked the 2 links provided but nowhere on those pages did I see a way to order this test.

Also, does anyone know if you should test a few times and average results or if just one test is sufficient? I'm wondering if it's like cortisol testing where levels go up and down throughout the day. Thanks!


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## Panserbjorne

the loading test has you collect one sample prior to supplementation and then collect urine every time you pee for 24 hours. They assess the retention rate...how much is used by the body essentially. I test every now and again to see how I'm doing. But I'm also being studied.


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## Panserbjorne

Well, I used to be more worried about metals but the more I read the less I'm convinced that it actually mobilizes them to any significant extent. I simply support the pathways (you know what those are!) add the nutrients and make sure I watch for any signs that the nursling is being affected. Extra glutathione (usually glutathione + NAC) was essential for us and does protect the breastmilk. You should also be doing high doses of C, mag, selenium, D etc.

Honestly if you start slow and if you have very few risk factors (well, the babe has few risk factors) then you should really be fine. It's a nutrient. Therapeutic doses may not be the brightest idea off the bat and this rec will vary depending on the age/frequency of nursing in baby.

How old is your dd? I didn't give it directly to my son until he had been on it through me. Even then it was early....but since we'd already journeyed so far I was okay with it. Same for dd but she was high risk.

I would say start slow, continue supporting pathways, look into glutathione, read up on the salt flush, think about clay (calcium bentonite) and watch. If you get uncomfortable then it's time to reassess.


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## linguistmama

I have some hypothyroid issues and am thinking about starting some Lugol's. I take Blue Ice COL right now and Natural Calm. I would plan to get some Brazil nuts for selenium and be prepared to do salt flushes. Anything else I should be taking if I go this route? I have Sodium Ascorbate so that would be good for Vit C right? What would be a good way to get B vitamins? I prefer whole food sources if possible or else whatever would be most effective. I get headaches from various pills that I've tried over the years so I wouldn't be surprised if I got them from trying this. My 14 mo is also still nursing.

TIA!


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## changingseasons

just subbing for now... bbl to read this thread!! I just ordered an iodine supp, but haven't started taking it yet. (It's Atomidine- any opinions about that brand?)


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## JTA Mom

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, Jane!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 

Iodine therapy might require a large commitment to detoxing. I know it is for me and my past experiences with it just didn't jive with the chaos of my life in the last 2 years, so here I am now trying again. It doesn't seem to as big an issue for others though, the majority of cases as I understand it just improve with iodine! Only you can determine whether it's worth it for the potential of solving your current issues and preventing future ones.

Each of the supplements has a specific reason why it is recommended, mostly for antioxidant support while detoxing and support of various body functions that will not work in presence of a deficiency. Most of them (selenium, magnesium, vitamins A/D) are typically low in most people anyway! Deficiencies in any of these nutrients can cause disease states (such as depression, thyroid and immune dysfunction, et al) on their own.

I know I'm low in magnesium. I'm prone to migraine headaches AND I developed pre-eclampsia in my last pregnancy. Now, it was really late in pregnancy (36 weeks) and it was mild pre-e, but still. What does iodine detox, specifically? I have a bunch of amalgam fillings that I can't just get rid of. Will iodine cause the mercury to leach out & into my breastmilk? I really don't want to 'poison' ds.









My basal temp has been low for a long time, which I chalked up to bf, but now that I put that together with the ovarian cysts, the exhaustion, migraines and just feeling under the weather, it make sense. I switched to sea salt during pregnancy, and my body does a LOT better on it than 'regular' table salt. Even if I'm heavy handed on it, I don't bloat, etc. I'm just afraid of doing something wrong while taking iodine. Like, do I need to take a magnesium supp, cod liver oil, etc? And in what doses? I don't have the $$ for a naturopath, so I am doing this on my own. Is there any link that can give me a sort of 'if you are low on this (fill in nutrient), take this amount of *blank* in addition to this much iodine'? I just don't want to cancel out the iodine I'm taking by either not taking a supporting supplement or taking a blocking one (like a calcium one).

Thanks!

Ami


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## aris99

Did anyone get pins and needles and twitching/spasms w/iodine? I woke up w/pins and needles in my hand, muscle twitching in my hand and a headache...the headache subsided w/mag...is this iodine/potassium related or something else? I'm taking 2 iodoral in the am and 2 in the pm. I wish we could all amass our experiences w/iodine supplementation....a spreadsheet w/how much we're taking, what else we're taking and our symptoms....I know I know who has the time...*sigh*


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
What would be a good way to get B vitamins? I prefer whole food sources if possible or else whatever would be most effective.

Raw, grass-fed beef liver. I swallow small pieces whole, sprinkled with Celtic salt & kelp - with a glass of water.


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## mom61508

I'm a BF mamma who's debating iodine supp as well but scared for dd(almost 12 months). I have hypo/hashis/adrenal fatigue. It's really the hashis that has me still avoiding iodine supp.
What to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Metasequoia

I've been thinking a lot about iodine lately - there's a book I think I saw recommended in A Grain of Salt (the Grain & Salt Society's newsletter) - or maybe I'm thinking of the sea salt book...

Anywho, I've been trying to add more sea veggies to our diet for iodine, but I'm thinking that Lugol's might be the way to go. I'm also avoiding high costs - how much are the loading tests?

I'm also still nursing Ds, so I think I'd rather start slow.

*How much would you give to children?* They already take D, K2 & CLO drops, what's one more?









I've always thought of the Japanese' iodine intake when their good health was brought up.

I already take Blue Ice, selenium & magnesium, so it looks like I'm all set. *Can someone tell me about the salt flush?* Headaches tend to be my usual reaction to toxins (or anything, really) & I need to be able to function.

Thanks for starting this thread, Jane.


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## chlobo

Ok, I am doing the iodine loading test today. So I had to take a full 50mg Iodoral pill. Now I feel nauseous. Could it be from the iodine?

I'm taking the rest of my supplements as usual.

ETA: I"m interested in the salt flush as well. Someone recommended I do a C flush for other reasons. I'm wondering if its ok to do both, maybe alternating weeks.


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## Metasequoia

Lyme patients will do salt & C simultaneously....


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## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Lyme patients will do salt & C simultaneously....

Do Lyme patients do Salt & C flushes together? That sounds rather harsh to me. I always thought they just drank salt/c water throughout the day.


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## Metasequoia

I knew I had read about detox pathways & iodine before! In the August 2007 issue of Grain of Salt, there's an article on breast health that starts on page 7 but continues on page 24. Page 24 talks about iodine & detox pathways.

http://www.celticseasalt.com/PDF/SNL07.pdf

*What about Iodoral?* How does it compare to Lugol's?


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## aris99

what's blue ice?


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Do Lyme patients do Salt & C flushes together? That sounds rather harsh to me. I always thought they just drank salt/c water throughout the day.

I don't know. I'm unclear on the specifics of salt & C flushes. I know that Lyme patients following the salt & C protocol take massive doses of both salt & C many times throughout the day.

Can you tell me (or link me) the specifics of salt/c flushes?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aris99* 
what's blue ice?

A brand of cod liver oil. *Fermented* Blue Ice is currently the only brand of CLO that doesn't use synthetic vitamins. (AFAIK)


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## Theloose

Dd is 2.5, but still nurses a lot. I'm hoping that this will be one of the last pieces of the puzzle, though, so hopefully that frequency will drop pretty soon.

Thanks for clearing up some of the nursing stuff. I was getting scared from reading the iodine list, but it sounds like that could have been largely just an issue of we don't know so don't do it.

So how important is the loading test? Or can we just assume we're deficient and start supping? Is it really useful to have that starting value to come back and compare?


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
So how important is the loading test? Or can we just assume we're deficient and start supping? Is it really useful to have that starting value to come back and compare?

whoMe, you keep asking all of the same questions that I have!


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## Theloose

I'm reading about salt flushes for bromide here:
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/iprotocol.html
and have to ask... Are there any extra issues with salt flushes while nursing that we know of?


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## WuWei

Jane, I would love to hear more info about why NOT to choose organic kelp or dulse which has been tested free of heavy metals, instead for the iodine. Those absorb/bind with heavy metals in the large intestine, from my understanding; and help to excrete it, in addition to the whole food benefits AND iodine. Seems to 'kill two birds with one stone' as it were: iodine and helps with the (released/circulating) mercury/heavy metal stores (bromides too?). I'm not completely clear on the physiology of it. But, I'm just a whole foods gal.









Pat


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## FireWithin

Pat - do you know if the natural sources have both iodine and iodide? That would be an important consideration.


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## mom61508

great questions!!!! I'm waiting on my liquid dulse now.


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## Theloose

Just ordered Dr Brownstein's book.


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## MyLittleWonders

Thanks for starting the thread Jane and all the information!







Dh and I started Iodoral a few weeks back - 1/2 pill each. I am now up to 2 pills a day; he is stuck at 1 (apparently, I didn't tell him I was increasing each week







). We also do magnesium (and I've realized how deficient we are as we can both do 600 mg at bedtime with no bowel tolerance), CLO, fish oil (for extra omega 3), vitamin D, B-complex, and extra C. The one thing we don't have is extra selenium (only what we take in our multi, which, I think, is 125 mcg). So, I might add extra selenium.

I have a feeling my boys need iodine supplementation given my history. They are almost 8, 5 1/2, and almost 3. The youngest is still nursing 2x a day, so he is probably getting some through me. How should I start with them? Should I get the liquid Iosol because it is such a low dose, and start them slowly to see how they respond? They all get selenium through their multi (Brainchild Nutritional for the younger two and a smaller dose of the same multi dh and I take for my oldest). They also get CLO (when I remember







) and magnesium (again, when I remember), and take extra S.A. during the day.

For me, hypothyroidism (or, shall I say highly suspected as my tests always came back "normal") is "genetic" - both my mom and her mom have suffered from the symptoms most of our lives. I am working on getting my mom on iodine; her otherwise alternative minded MD prescribed her Synthroid recently.

Thank you again for the thread.


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## Panserbjorne

Have things changed? As far as I know the loading test is 25 mg, not 50. One pill of Iodoral is 12.5 mg. The loading test uses 2. At least it always did.


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## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aris99* 
Did anyone get pins and needles and twitching/spasms w/iodine? I woke up w/pins and needles in my hand, muscle twitching in my hand and a headache...the headache subsided w/mag...is this iodine/potassium related or something else? I'm taking 2 iodoral in the am and 2 in the pm. I wish we could all amass our experiences w/iodine supplementation....a spreadsheet w/how much we're taking, what else we're taking and our symptoms....I know I know who has the time...*sigh*

Are you just starting? that's a pretty high dose off the bat. generally people work up to that. If you are just starting unless you have been advised otherwise you might think about backing down and working your way up.


----------



## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 

For me, hypothyroidism (or, shall I say highly suspected as my tests always came back "normal") is "genetic" - both my mom and her mom have suffered from the symptoms most of our lives.

So many things that people assume are genetic are simply inadequate stores being handed down. Seems like you may be able to break this "genetic" issue!


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
So many things that people assume are genetic are simply inadequate stores being handed down. Seems like you may be able to break this "genetic" issue!

Most definitely! That is why I like to use "genetic" in quotes; I don't think that most things are truly genetic.


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## Jennemiah

Just adding my 2 cents... I first started looking into iodine supp because of a fibroadenoma I'm trying to shrink before considering another pregnancy (my midwife advises me to "take care of it" but I am not wild about the idea of surgery, especially while still breastfeeding my 18mo DD). Also because I am originally from the midwest, where iodine deficiency is apparently even more common. So after reading a lot of the research, I ordered myself some Iodoral and worked my way up over the course of a few weeks to 50mg/day. Have been at that level for 2 months now. So far I haven't really had any detox symptoms, and I have been feeling great. One unexpected benefit was that DD's eczema (flare-ups are tied to food allergies, but she had a very mild baseline that I couldn't get to go away even with a careful diet) finally completely went away! (We have also been seeing a homeopath, so we've had a lot of improving in general lately, but I am pretty sure that the eczema clearing was solely due to the addition of iodine.)

I am thinking about doing the loading test soon to see how close I am to "sufficiency", since I'd like to go down to a maintenance dose before getting pregnant - I just don't see enough research on high doses during pregnancy, but I can convince myself that 12.5mg/day during pregnancy is ok based on that being the average amound consumed by Japanese women. I have an appointment (couldn't get in until July) to see a local ND who has experience with iodine supplementation, and I will probably ask him to ordering the loading test for me.

One question I do have - I thought full strength Lugol's solution was only available with a prescription. Is that true? My understanding is that it's much cheaper than Iodoral, but that it tastes awful. So I'm considering trying to get ahold of some just to see if I could stand it and save a few $$.

Not sure yet if it's helping with my fibroadenoma...might need to give it a little longer, apparently it can take awhile.

Jenn


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## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
Have things changed? As far as I know the loading test is 25 mg, not 50. One pill of Iodoral is 12.5 mg. The loading test uses 2. At least it always did.

This site says 50mg








http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/loading.html

But it looks like Doctor's Data has a test where your doctor can decide the appropriate loading dose.
http://iodine4health.com/ortho/iodin...st_sources.htm


----------



## farmerjess

This thread is so so timely and perfect, thank you Jane. I just got a hypoT diagnosis and waiting to see if I have hashis. I am currently on Armour, but I would love to support my body to make it's own thyroid hormone.

For anyone interested in Bromide Testing, Stephanie, the owner of the Iodine Yahoo group rec's this lab:

http://hakalalabs.com/


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## Panserbjorne

interesting!


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## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I'm reading about salt flushes for bromide here:
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/iprotocol.html
and have to ask... Are there any extra issues with salt flushes while nursing that we know of?

I'd love to know too

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I don't know. I'm unclear on the specifics of salt & C flushes. I know that Lyme patients following the salt & C protocol take massive doses of both salt & C many times throughout the day.

Can you tell me (or link me) the specifics of salt/c flushes?

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/drshevin.html

http://www.perque.com/pdfs/Pt_Ascorbate_Slush_FIN.pdf

So one flushes fluid and the other flushes solids.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
Have things changed? As far as I know the loading test is 25 mg, not 50. One pill of Iodoral is 12.5 mg. The loading test uses 2. At least it always did.

Only for you, PB, would I look through the trash (and to satisfy myself that I did read correctly). The little envelope that had the pill in it says Iodoral 50mg. So the dose they sent was 50 mg but it was only one pill.


----------



## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 

Only for you, PB, would I look through the trash (and to satisfy myself that I did read correctly). The little envelope that had the pill in it says Iodoral 50mg. So the dose they sent was 50 mg but it was only one pill.









: I appreciate it! Off to look now. I haven't seen it offered in 50 mg pills. That's good info to have!


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
*How much would you give to children?* They already take D, K2 & CLO drops, what's one more?









I have been giving ds, who is 5, 2mg a day and decided to up it to 3mg a few days ago.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Ok I'm jumping in to add some extra info about how iodine deficiency effects differing conditions.. Also I will add some additional info about the toxicity of fluoride and bromide... this will be a few posts so bear with me.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

There seems to be a general understanding that hypothyroidism is caused by iodine deficiency so I'm gonna skip that one since it's obvious..

"Among the problems caused by iodine deficiency are: underactivity of the thyroid gland produces fatigue. In rodents iodine deficiency leads to abnormal pituitary-adrenal function. The adrenal gland provides energy and stamina. When iodine no longer binds to thyroid cell membranes enzymes called peroxidases they are able to damage these membranes and produce autoimmune diseases such as Hashimoto¹s thyroiditis and Hyperthroidism (Graves Disease). Researcher Dr. Guy Abraham has observed several cases of thyroiditis and hyperthyroidism that have been corrected by the simple replacement of iodine. For more than 100 years high doses of iodine have been known to benefit both underactivity (hypothyroidism) of the thyroid gland and overactivity of the thyroid gland (hyperthyroidism). Iodine therapy allows the sluggish thyroid gland to resume normal production of thyroid hormone leading to resolution of hypothyroidism. Provision of iodine stops the peroxidase injury to the thyroid membranes in hyperthyroidism which permits hyperthyroidism to resolve. Thus thyroid surgery for hyperthyroidism is no longer necessary. Several human organs need iodine but can not absorb it until blood iodine levels reach high values (stomach, salivary glands). Most persons exhibit impaired production of stomach acid as they age. This impaired capability to produce adequate stomach acid may be a result of iodine deficiency as iodine promotes stomach acidity." (Per http://www.vickeryseaplantminerals.com/Page.html)

And this quote from Second Opinion Newsletter

November, 2004, Issue

"While iodine will help the thyroid increase the production of hormone where necessary, it also inhibits over-release from the gland by giving thyroid enzymes what they want. These iodine-seeking enzymes that attack thyroid membranes can be normalized when they get the iodine they need. This old information is terrific news for the many people (usually women) who have been told to have their thyroid removed to end hyperthyroidism. These draconian measures ensure the patient will have to rely on prescriptive thyroid hormone for the rest of their life. But iodine can completely solve the problem."

Testimonials (per http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/iodine2.html)

Jan from Buffalo, NY writes: "Lugol's cure for Hyperthyroidism. 2 years ago I went to the doctor for fast pulse rate. Resting it was 105 to 110 bpm. He sent me to an endocrinologist who recommended the radioactive pill approach to killing the thyroid. I asked him about Iodine. He was very specific about how dangerous it would be to treat it with Iodine. I went home and ordered a bottle of Lugol's from the internet and three days later having taken doses for 3 days, my pulse rate was below 75 and the swollen throat had subsided. It was common goiter. The allopathic treatment seems to be kill the thyroid and take T4 for the rest of your life. there should be a law against the quackery practiced in modern medicine. What a waste of 12 years of education."

More Information straight from Dr. Guy Abraham (per http://www.healthsalon.org/450/iodin...-e-abraham-md/)

"During the last 10 years the writer has treated a large number of cases of hyperthyroidism, and with most of them the administration of iodine has been a part of the treatment. There is no danger in so doing if the dose is properly regulated. The extreme sensitiveness described by some writers is a rare event. If the dose is properly regulated there need be no fear of iodism or iodine Basedowism."
Starr, et al 65 from the Massachusetts General Hospital used 15 drops (90 mg) of Lugol gaily for the treatment of exophthalmic goiter, with a 92% success fate, eliminating he need for surgery. "Of these 25 cases, 20 (80%) responded to iodine by a more or less extensive remission of the disease. Of these 20, 12 (48%) responded with the acute iodine resembling the effect produced by subtotal thyroidectomy. In the remaining eight (32%) the remission occurred, but was less extensive. In five unsuccessful cases (20%) two of the patients were pregnant, and one had cardiac decompensation. If these are omitted from the calculation, iodine administration was successful in 20 of 23, or 92% of our hospital cases."

A cursory review of the literature suggests that the use of Lugol solution in Graves' disease, the preferred approach by thyroidologists of that time, resulted in a higher success rate with fewer complications than the use of iodine and iodide alone. 45,57,60-66 The daily amount of Lugol solution used in Graves' disease ranged from one drop (6.25 mg) to 30 drops (180 mg). A complete nutritional program in our experience improved further the response to orthoiodosupplementation in Graves' disease and other thyroid disorders.
No serious attempt was made by physicians of the early 1900s to incorporate a complete nutritional program with Lugol supplementation in the management of thyroid disorders. The reason is that not much was known about vitamins, minerals, and essential trace elements at that time. Today, the importance of good nutrition in overall well-being is commonly accepted, and more and more publications are emphasizing the interaction between micronutrients in their overall effects on biological systems. We have incorporated a total nutritional program with orthoiodosupplementation, emphasizing magnesium instead of calcium (discussed further in Section VII). The effect of this nutritional program with orthoiodosupplementation on thyroid function tests in a 40-years-old female patient with severe hyperthyroidism is displayed in Table 3."

"Published studies on the safe and effective use of Lugol solution in Graves' disease mysteriously disappeared during the 1940s and afterward, concurrent with the appearance of iodophobic publications and the promotion of goitrogens as an alternative to Lugol solution in the management of Graves' disease. (See Table 4.) Introduced in 1943 by E.B. Astwood 67 for the management of Graves' disease in the forms of thiourea and thiouracil, these goitrogens evolved into more powerful ones, 68 and eventually the thiionamides: methimazole, carbimazole, and propylthiouracil. These goitrogens rapidly replace inorganic iodine/iodide in the management of Graves' disease. The synchronization of iodophobic publications with the introduction of goitrogens to replace inorganic iodine/iodide (Table 4) was a brilliant move, and it worked wonderfully. Obviously, no one was awake to ask questions. In 1953, when Godley and Stanbury 69 introduced a new goitrogen, potassium perchlorate, in the treatment of hyperthyroidism, they acknowledged that the thiionamides were used widely in Graves' disease, instead of inorganic iodine/iodide. "At the present time propylthiouracil, methylthiouracil and 1-methyl-2-mercaptoimidazole (methimazole) are widely employed in the preparation of thyrotoxic patients for surgery, and to a lesser extent in the chronic control of the overactive thyroid gland (5)." This new goitrogen, that is potassium perchlorate, was so toxic that it was removed from circulation shortly after its introduction. Reintroduction of this goitrogen is currently being attempted by lowering the recommended dosage.70 Astwood and his associates reported very high remission rates in Graves' disease with use of goitrogens, which mislead thyroidologists and encouraged them to use these drugs instead of inorganic iodine/iodide. In two studies published in 1953 and 1966, his teams reported a remission rate of 50-75%.71, 72 However, his findings could not be reproduced by others. Wartofsky 73in 1973, and Reynolds and Kotchen74 in 1979 observed much lower remission rates of 11-16%. Increased ingestion of iodine/iodide by the patients was blamed by Wartofsky for the low success rate. Wartofsky's study was done at a time when one slice of bread contained the full RDA for iodine. In an attempt to improve success rate with goitrogens, patients were told to limit their intake of iodine, which discouraged further its use by the patients. Wartofsky, et al 73 failed to realize that iodization of bakery products started several years before the second study by Astwood, et al 72 published in 1966, which reported a very high success rate. In 1965, London, et al 25 reported an estimated iodine intake of 1 mg/day with 726 mg coming from bakery products. In the end, one concludes that Astwood's optimistic reports on the use of goitrogens in Graves' disease could not be reproduced by others. Since the word "goitrogens" implies goiter-causing drugs, Astwood called them antithyroid drugs. So, instead of normalizing thyroid function physiologically with sufficient amounts of inorganic, non-radioactive iodine/iodide, thyroidologists became destructive in their approach with goitrogens and radioiodide, resulting in hypothyroidism in the majority of those unfortunate patients who eventually join the ever-increasing T4 consuming population.

In the 1980s, thyroidologists in the US decreased their use of goitrogens in Graves' disease due to low remission rate and side effects and relied more and more on inorganic iodide, but unfortunately the wrong kind (i.e., the radioactive kind). Thyroidologists en masse joined the nuclear age. In 1990, a survey by the American Thyroid Association76″This chapter considers the three forms of treatment of thyrotoxicosis - antithyroid drugs, radioactive iodine (radioiodine), and thyroidectomy -- that are in wide use now." In a subsection entitled "Other drugs used in the treatment of thyrotoxicosis caused by Graves' disease," Cooper stated, "The effect of iodide on thyroid function are complex and are discussed in detail in the section on the effects of excess iodide in Chapter 13." The reader is preconditioned to be in an iodophobic mode when he goes to Chapter 13, an ominous number, with "excess iodide" in the title and where inorganic iodine/iodide is blamed for the severs side effects of organic iodine-containing drugs such as amiodarone, and is called "a pathogen."

Obviously, the unsuspecting thyroidologist relying solely on this textbook for information will avoid inorganic iodine/iodide like leprosy. However, if he is inquisitive and searches the literature carefully, he may read the publication by Phillipou, et al,4who studied the effect of inorganic iodide on thyroid functions and compared his results with the effects of amiodarone, "We can, therefore, conclude that the effect of amiodarone, benziodarone, Na iopanate, and other iodine containing substances with similar effects is due to the entire molecule, and not to the iodine liberated. It should be noted that the cytotoxic effect of amiodarone in all cultures is also due to the entire molecule, and not to the iodine present in it." It is most amazing that no one so far has proposed the use of inorganic, non-radioactive iodine/iodide at 9 mg/day in patients with cardiac arrhythmia. Indeed, we have a zombified medical profession. Case in point, patients are told to protect their thyroid gland from radioactive fallout by ingesting inorganic, if diagnosed with Graves' disease, are told to stop taking inorganic, non-radioactive iodine/iodide to penetrate their thyroid gland, a destructive dose that is! Does that make any sense?"


----------



## tanyalynn

Jane, I totally forgot to quote you from somewhere earlier. I can share my experience starting Iodoral, it's nothing earth-shattering. For background, my health issues are mercury related, it's my fillings. The kids (5yo daughter, 3yo son) are affected too, though in very different ways.

I started taking Iodoral when my son was about 4 months old. Knowing nothing (and having no idea that my health issues were anymore serious than hypothyroidism that was only very, very, very slowly showing up in my bloodwork, so no meds to help), I just started at 1 tablet, didn't taper up or anything, or ever go higher than that. Some of my hypo symptoms got a bit better, my hair stopped falling out (it had become obvious that this was more than the normal post-partum hair loss) and a bit of my mental fogginess got better. So enough to keep taking it, but not enough to make me feel like a real, functional human being.

I didn't have any negative symptoms at all. If I was taking any nutritional support back then, it wasn't terribly impressive, I think just a standard multivitamin. In retrospect I'm still not sure if/how much mercury and arsenic I mobilized to my son. And I don't seem to have a halide issue, at least not to the level of symptoms (since I'm sure I've got some halides along with scads of other weird stuff).

I've started taking it again, I guess it's been about 3 months. For simplicity, I've just stayed at 1 Iodoral a day while I focus on other stuff. Not sure if that's good, bad, or indifferent, I'm reading the thread to figure it out! Need to go back and read a couple of the optimox links from Jane, I think they're going to argue that I should just take more.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
I have a bunch of amalgam fillings that I can't just get rid of. Will iodine cause the mercury to leach out & into my breastmilk? I really don't want to 'poison' ds.









Ami

Ami, I've never seen anything to suggest that iodine will pull mercury out of your fillings. I've read that a few oddball supplements can (not vit/min supps) though even there I'm not completely sure--is it being pulled out, or is mobilizing what these really toxic people have stored already? Either way, I wouldn't worry about your fillings for taking iodine, but if you are a person who's stored up a lot of mercury (and thus presumably your overall detoxification pathways have gotten clogged and you haven't detoxified other stuff, including halides, that's more to think about).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Ok, I am doing the iodine loading test today. So I had to take a full 50mg Iodoral pill. Now I feel nauseous. Could it be from the iodine?

I'm taking the rest of my supplements as usual.

ETA: I"m interested in the salt flush as well. Someone recommended I do a C flush for other reasons. I'm wondering if its ok to do both, maybe alternating weeks.

I think the salt flush is to immediately increase your tolerance for the iodine. I'm sorry you feel icky after taking 50mg--maybe you'll be okay if you wait a few days and then just take 12.5? If 12.5 is fine, you could just do that for a while, and then decide to increase to 25 if you want to. I think the salt flush would be most useful if you can't even do 12.5, so if you can, you can skip it for a while.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Dd is 2.5, but still nurses a lot. I'm hoping that this will be one of the last pieces of the puzzle, though, so hopefully that frequency will drop pretty soon.

Thanks for clearing up some of the nursing stuff. I was getting scared from reading the iodine list, but it sounds like that could have been largely just an issue of we don't know so don't do it.

So how important is the loading test? Or can we just assume we're deficient and start supping? Is it really useful to have that starting value to come back and compare?

I don't know if it's a good approach or not, for now I'm just starting and staying at 12.5. i guess it depends on how quickly you want to get everything straightened out. I've got a plan (developed it on this vacation) to try to have myself straightened out by next April, so I have time. i think your timeline is shorter.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

For fertility, add iodine (link)

If you have or are having difficulty becoming pregnant, chances are pretty good that iodine deficiency is your culprit. Your whole body needs iodine and the highest concentrations can be found in your uterus and ovaries among others. Hypothyroidism A.K.A. Iodine deficiency can cause menstrual irregularities, decreased sex drive, miscarriage, failure to ovulate, premature childbirth and pre-eclampsia. Some women experience an autoimmune version of hypothyroidism in which their bodies are producing killer cells which attacks their own tissues (including their own thyroid or an embryo). Though Iodine is the number one supplement it works synergistically with other vitamins, minerals and nutrients. The consequences of not resolving your deficiencies is the likeliness that you will not be able to maintain a pregnancy without treatment.

Deficiency of iodine seems to cause more damage in developing embryos and in fact, in pregnant women iodine deficiency causes abortions and stillborns. It is not cretinism alone that holds risks from deficiency, but the very survival of the infant itself. Adequate iodine may also provide protection from infection and vaccine damage. In a study done on 617 infants between the ages of 6 weeks and six months, in an iodine deficient area, it was shown that with the addition of 100 mg of iodine oil to the diet of newborns, that the death rate of infants was markedly lower than for those without any supplementation.

Hypothyroidism is a common cause of infertility in women and incompetent sperm in men. Many childless couples have the misfortune to be hypothyroid (one or both partners) and yet not have an abnormal lab value (T3 or T4 test) to convince the doctor to prescribe thyroid replacement therapy.

Disturbed Menstrual Flow

Another common symptom of hypothyroidism is dysfunction of the female cycle. In children, the onset of menses may be delayed or, paradoxically, it may come years early with hypothyroidism. At the other end, menopause may happen much too early or much too late. During childbearing years the menstrual cycle may be upset in just about any pattern imaginable. The most common condition is that of irregular bleeding. The lining of the uterus, the endometrium, just like other tissues in the body, requires thyroid hormone for proper growth and function.

Pregnancy

Iodine during pregnancy is so much more important than anything else. Severe iodine deficiency in a mother's diet during pregnancy increases the risk of miscarriage and stillbirth. If the baby survives to term, it is likely to suffer irreversible mental retardation. This is known as cretinism and is a major cause of preventable intellectual impairment in low iodine areas. Mildly iodine-deficient children have learning disabilities and poor motivation. The developing fetus, newborn and young children are most susceptible to the effects of an iodine- deficient diet, and treatment before conception or in early pregnancy is essential to prevent irreversible damage. Breast milk contains more iodine than formula milk and premature babies who are formula-fed may be at risk of deficiency.

In newborns, iodine deficiency causes cretinism (neonatal hypothyroidism), which is characterized by jaundice, poor appetite, constipation, a hoarse cry, outpouching of the navel (umbilical hernia), and slowed bone growth. If not diagnosed and treated within a few months of birth, iodine deficiency results in mental retardation. Iodine deficiency that begins in childhood (juvenile hypothyroidism) slows growth, sometimes resulting in disproportionately short limbs as well as delayed development of teeth.

Ideally one would achieve full body sufficiency of not just Iodine but all other vitamins and mineral prior to trying to conceive, However, if you are already pregnant congratulations!) there is more to it than pop an iodine pill. The whole point is to encourage you to be more active in your health care, and that means giving you the pros and cons so that you can make an informed decision. Because iodine pushes out heavy metals some will cross the placenta and affect your unborn baby, although it will anyways because your body naturally does this, the iodine increases the amount excreted. However, the iodine your child receives is beneficial in helping their bodies excrete toxic metals as well, as you can read below, any risks are far outweighed by the benefits of iodine supplementation. I have yet to find any cons when it comes to supplementation during pregnancy or bfing, if I do find anything I will post it.


"Growth and development of 207 children (49% males; mean age 5.4 years [SD 0.2], range 4 to 7.3 years whose mothers received iodine during pregnancy, and children who received iodine first in their 2nd year, were examined in 1996; 192 children (49% males; mean age 6.5 years[SD 0.2], range 5.8 to 6.9 years) whose mothers received iodine while pregnant were seen in 1998. Children were from the southern part of China's Xinjiang Province which has the lowest levels of iodine in water and soil ever recorded. Head circumference but not height was improved for those who received iodine during pregnancy (compared with those receiving iodine at age 2) and for those supplemented before the end of the 2nd trimester (relative to those supplemented during the 3rd trimester). Iodine before the 3rd trimester predicted higher psychomotor test scores for children relative to those provided iodine later in pregnancy or at 2 years. Results from the test for cognitive development resulted in trend only differences between those children supplemented during pregnancy versus later."

"Iodine prophylaxis given before or during pregnancy has resulted in improved cognitive functioning in offspring in Ecuador"

"The literature search revealed that 60 million mainland Japanese consume a daily average of 13.8 mg of elemental iodine and they are one of the healthiest nations, based on overall wellbeing and cancer statistics (4). Japanese women do not stop consuming iodine-rich foods during pregnancy, and Japanese fetuses are exposed to maternal peripheral levels of iodide at concentrations of 10-5M to 10-6M (1-4). Either the Japanese are mutants, capable of striving on toxic levels of iodine or we have been grossly deceived, and the human body needs at least 100 times the RDA, which was established very recently in 1980 and confirmed in 1989!! (7)"

It affects animals in the same way!


"The results demonstrated that iodine supplementation restores fertility of sheep living in iodine deficient areas and may represent a means to achieve a silent iodine prophylaxis of local populations."

Anderson's 'LSD file' holds a pile of research papers (mainly international) linking iodine, vitamin E and selenium with better immune responses and lamb survival when given pre-lambing. Research covers sheep and cows, even American buffalo and Awassi sheep.

There is also research on the benefits of selenium and iodine given pre-tuppping. For example, ewes given 50mg of selenium three weeks before mating had heavier twin lambs. The lambs also had a 'boosted' immune system (levels of glutathione peroxidase).

In another trial, iodine deficient ewes were given a 'hefty' 480mg dose of iodine pre-tupping and had a radically improved lambing percentage. In this overseas trial, the ewes achieved 100% vs only 37% for non-supplemented ewes (Ferris, 2003).

"Iodine supplementation (20 mg KI twice weekly) to ewes during the last month of pregnancy and the first 3 months of lactation increased productivity. Production traits enhanced by this treatment included the birth weight (3.9 vs 3.5 kg; P < 0.01), survival (84% vs 64 %), growth rate (P < 0.05), and mature SIP wool follicle ratio of lambs (1 4.9 ¦ 1.2 vs 10.3 ¦ 1.6). "


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## ChristSavesAll

ADD & ADHD

Attention deficit disorders and mild-moderate iodine deficiency The purpose of this observational study was to determine whether mild-moderate iodine deficiency during pregnancy is associated with attention deficit and hyperactivity disorders (ADHD) (4). The study involved a small sample of women who lived in two areas of Sicily, where iodine intakes were either moderately deficient (area A, n=16) or marginally sufficient (area B, n=11). The iodine status of the general population was known to differ in the two areas, based on the prevalence of goiter (24% in area A vs. 7.8% in area B) and urinary iodine excretion. The authors monitored thyroid function of the mothers during pregnancy and of the children at 18-36 months in 1994 and 8-10 years of age from 2001-2002. Two independent examiners, who were unaware of the mother's thyroid status, conducted behavioral and neurological evaluations of the children at the same time points.

Thyroid failure occurred in early pregnancy among 50% (n=8) of the women in area A but only transiently among 9% (n=1) of the area B women. All children had normal thyroid function at birth and afterward at the two follow-up time points, and none showed any neurological signs typically seen in iodine deficiency disorders. However, 68.7% of the children from area A (11 of 16) were diagnosed with ADHD, compared to none of the children in area B. Total IQ scores were lower in area A than in area B (92.1 vs 110, p < 0.00005).

A high prevalence of ADHD has been reported before in children with genetic traits that interfere with thyroid function. The authors suggest that varying and mild degrees of thyroid failure occurring early in pregnancy as a result of iodine deficiency may affect fetal brain development and result in the ADHD syndrome. However, the study involved a very small, nonrandom sample, and it is doubtful, on ethical grounds, that a clinical trial could be conducted to confirm these results.

Study of the link between iodine deficiency and ADHD (link)

Over a period of almost 10 yr, we carried out a prospective study of the neuropsychological development of the offspring of 16 women from a moderately iodine-deficient area (area A) and of 11 control women from a marginally iodine-sufficient area (area B) whose thyroid function had been monitored during early gestation. Attention deficit and hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) was diagnosed in 11 of 16 area A children (68.7%) but in none from area B. Total intelligence quotient score was lower in area A than in area B children (92.1 +/- 7.8 vs. 110 +/- 10) and in ADHD children when compared with both non-ADHD children from the same area and control children (88.0 +/- 6.9 vs. 99.0 +/- 2.0 and 110 +/- 10, respectively). Seven of 11 ADHD children (63.6%) were born to the seven of eight area A mothers who became hypothyroxinemic at early gestation, whereas only one of five non-ADHD children was born to a woman who was hypothyroxinemic at 20 wk of gestation. So far, a similar prevalence of ADHD has been reported only in children with generalized resistance to thyroid hormones. This might suggest a common ADHD pathogenetic mechanism consisting either of reduced sensitivity of the nuclear receptors to thyroid hormone (generalized resistance to thyroid hormones) or reduced availability of intracellular T3 for nuclear receptor binding. The latter would be the ultimate consequence of maternal hypothyroxinemia (due to iodine deficiency), resulting in a critical reduction of the source of the intracellular T3 available to the developing fetal brain.

Emotional Disorders

Any and every emotional disorder can be brought on or simulated by thyroid dysfunction. Hypothyroidism slows the thought process, produces depression and sometimes hallucinations, delusions and even paranoia. Slowness of thought and activity is a hallmark of this disease. When present and untreated from early childhood, the final outcome of severe hypothyroidism is idiocy, growth failure and early death in the late teens or early twenties. In adulthood, a change in personality or depression, fatigue, uncharacteristic irritability or a change in sleep pattern should raise a suspicion of thyroid dysfunction.

Hyperactivity of Childhood

During childhood, hyperactivity and a short attention span are typical of hypothyroidism. These children often are treated with Ritalin, an amphetamine-like drug, or amphetamines themselves. Apparently, this solves the problem of fatigue for the child and allows for better concentration and less hyperactivity. The more appropriate treatment, of course, would be thyroid replacement. ,Milder hypothyroidism can allow growth to be normal and even produce extreme height due to a delayed closing of the epiphyses where bone elongation takes place during growth. Tall hypothyroid patients are not rare.

Autism

Iodine: For the children with ASD, the mean level of iodine was much lower (45%) than for the control children, and the difference was highly statistically significant (p=0.005). When the subgroup of age 3-6 years was considered, the magnitude of the difference was almost identical (47%), although the difference was not statistically significant due to the smaller number of children in the subgroup. This suggests that iodine could be an important factor in the early development of autism, presumably through its effect on thyroid function. Iodine deficiency was extremely common in parts of the US in the early 1900's, and caused many cases of goiters (enlarged thyroid) and cretinism (a form of mental retardation due to iodine deficiency). This prompted the federal government to mandate that iodine be added to salt (iodinized salt). However, based on our informal phone survey of several major snack food and fast food manufacturers, non-iodinized salt seems to be the form primarily used in french fries, potato chips, and other snack foods commonly eaten by young children. So, it is plausible that a small fraction of children in the US could still be marginally deficient in iodine, and that this could significantly affect their mental status. Also, it should be pointed out that according to the NHANES surveys I and III [11], average iodine levels in the US (measured in the urine) have declined more than 50% during the 20 year period from 1971-1974 to 1988-1994, so that an increasing fraction of the population has low levels of iodine that are likely to increase the risk for mental retardation. Thus, low iodine levels could be a cause or exacerbating factor for autism. However, it needs to be pointed out that hair measurements have not been validated for iodine as reflective of body status, so future studies of iodine levels in blood are warranted, as well as studies of thyroid function in autism.

Results:

* Iodine: Children with autism have low levels of iodine (needed for proper thyroid functioning and to prevent mental retardation). Iodine deficiency is the most common worldwide cause of mental retardation.
* Lithium: Children with autism and their mothers have low levels of lithium, which is needed to prevent behavior problems.
* Pica: Children with pica often had low chromium in their hair.
* Low Muscle Tone: Children with autism and low muscle tone had low levels of potassium, which is needed for proper muscle function.

Low iodine is the major cause of mental retardation worldwide (over 80 million cases) - becoming more common in US (decreased use of iodinized salt).

Still looking for the additional info on OCD to add...


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## ChristSavesAll

Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue

Drs. Abraham, Flechas and Brownstein tested more than 4,000 patients taking iodine in daily doses ranging from 12.5 to 50 mg, and in those with diabetes, up to 100 mg a day. These investigators found that "iodine does indeed reverse fibrocystic disease; their diabetic patients require less insulin; hypothyroid patients, less thyroid medication; symptoms of fibromyalgia resolve, and patients with migraine headaches stop having them." We can expect even better results when iodine is combined with magnesium chloride.

Individuals that struggle with Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue are numerous throughout our society. The adrenal glands are the key to unlocking the full health of these individuals.

You hurt all over and are constantly exhausted; you have consulted your physician but have been unable to locate the cause of your discomfort. Lab results all come back negative. Many times, you have been told that it is "all in your head". To many, this reality of day-to-day living has been classified as fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue.

Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue affect the lifestyle of people worldwide; suffering all day long with adrenaline (epinephrine) overload, which is related to cortisol deficiency. Many have given up hope of regaining their energy and zest for life due to the professed incurable nature of these disorders. Contrary to popular belief, there is a great amount that can be done to improve and eliminate fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue.

Adaptation

The body is a master at adaptation. As an example, when one walks into a dark room, the pupils of the eyes immediately dilate to allow for the passage of more light; this process allows one to see in the dark by enhancing vision. When undergoing excessive amounts of stress, the body adapts in a similar fashion. Specific hormones, epinephrine and norepinephrine, are produced in the adrenal glands to empower the body to respond to the stress. After the stress has passed, the body should return to a normal state of balance.

Epinephrine and norepinephrine, also know as adrenalin, produce what is called a "fight or flight" response in the body. These powerful hormones are quickly released when one encounters any degree of stress. This response allows the individual to properly face the stress or flee from it.

In response to epinephrine and norepinephrine, the body undergoes many changes. The need for oxygen increases, muscles receive more glucose, blood pressure increases, eyes dilate, heart rate increases, digestion decreases, and blood is shunted to the legs. All of these responses encourage alertness and physical strength. If the stressful situation continues, the body releases an additional hormone called cortisol which increases blood sugar by breaking down fat and protein in the body and also increases blood pressure. These powerful hormones dramatically alter the function of the entire body.

If the body is unable to return to normalcy due to continual levels of stress, the results of fight or flight will have a cumulative negative effect upon the body. The following symptoms may be experienced: fatigue, headaches, indigestion, depression, insomnia, weight gain, muscle soreness, increase of pain, restlessness, anxiety, high blood sugar, constipation, diarrhea, decrease immunity, loss of concentration, memory problems, decrease sex drive, joint pain, muscle wasting, sore throat, allergies, panic attacks, heart palpitations and fainting. These symptoms are those that are regularly mentioned by those that struggle with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue.

With this valuable information, how then can one decrease their stress levels and turn off the fight or flight response that is spiraling out of control? The answer lies in the function of the adrenal glands.

The Adrenals

When the adrenal glands are worked overtime, they become worn out and decline in productivity. They begin to break down proteins and other vital components of the body to produce the needed stress hormones. The body literally sacrifices health for survival.

In order to treat the stress that is causing the fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue symptoms, one can modify diet, relaxation habits, sleep, nutrition, and perception.

Adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism often go hand in hand with stress causing a rise in CRH and cortisol levels which suppress thyroid function. If the stress continues cortisol remains raised and compensates for less thyroid hormone but eventually the adrenal glands cannot sustain this level of cortisol output and adrenal fatigue results.

Experts such as Dr. Barry Durrant-Peatfield, author of 'Your Thyroid and How to Keep it Healthy', recommend treating both underactive adrenal and thyroid glands at the same time.

By treating the adrenal glands, one will begin to experience more energy, a balance of body weight and much more! Due to the increased level of stress present within our society, adrenal treatment can not only help and assist those struggling with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue, but it can also prevent future outbreaks.

Herbs used to help reduce stress and improve immune system and adrenal function include ginseng, rhodiola, Siberian ginseng, ashwaganda, and licorice. It's important to support the adrenal glands, which may be exhausted in long-standing hypothyroidism, when starting iodine supplementation. (adapted article from http://www.healthmad.com/Health/Adre...Fatigue.127053)

A simple way to test yourself at home for adrenal fatigue

Equipment required: chair, small flashlight, mirror, a watch (with a second hand), and a dark room.

In a darkened room, sit in a chair in front of a mirror. Holding the flashlight at the side of your head, shine it across one eye (not into the eye). Watch what happens in the mirror.

You should see your pupil contract immediately after the light hits the eye. The pupil will normally stay contracted, but if you have adrenal fatigue, the pupil won't be able to hold its contraction and will dilate. This dilation will take place within 2 minutes and last for about 30-45 seconds before it contracts again. Time how long the dilation lasts and record it along with the date. Retest monthly as it serves as an indicator of recovery.

Testimony of Fibromyalgia and the use of Iodine

The following testimony can be found at http://www.quackcenter.com/iodoralresults.html
7-22-07 Amazing note from Tammi with her reorder:
Nancy,

I have Fibromyalgia really bad, I hurt constantly. I am a Terminal Mgr for a large trucking company, and one of my drivers who broke his finger and had to have a steel plate in it recommended your product and your website. He said his finger did not hurt after taking it and his arthritis was much better. His wife brought me in some and I took 2 a day and started to feel better not really noticing the pain, but I only had a few so then I ran out, I started to hurt again.

I then ordered a bottle and took 2 a day -- sometimes I would miss a day here and there but the pain totally subsided. Well, I ran out about a month ago and being busy did not get around to reordering until the pain came back severely. I am taking pain pills such as Vicoprofen and 800 mg Motrin that I do not take with the Iodoral. I did not do the urine test.

I told my ANP [Nurse Practitioner] about it and she wanted me to bring her some and the information on your website and I told her I would. I really believe it is what is helping my pain, and she wants another patient to try some. It is the only thing I have found that relieves it. Please feel free to use my testimony or email me with more questions if you have any.
Thank you
Tammi

7-28-07 Tammi wrote: "Just so you know, that I got my Iodine, and I am already starting to feel better after 2 days, I should have never let myself run out, I will try to do better on that next time."

8-2-07 Update from Tammi: "The Iodine is really working - my pain is nearly completely gone again."

Testimony of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and the use of Iodine

The following testimony can be found at http://www.quackcenter.com/iodoralresults.html

5-1-05 Here is a note from Sandra. I have her permission to post it here:

"I realize I only ordered enough for 22 days.. So I will need more soon I am sure. I am on 10.5 grains of nature thyroid and that is a lot!! Still, I have been exhausted, can't do much of anything. Depressed and put on 10 pounds. Nails are still weak and hair is dry and brittle. My skin is dry.

"I woke up the morning after I took four Iodoral and jumped up at 9AM with SOO much energy. I have sleep issues and often do not get up until 12 or 1 or even 2 PM depending on time I go to bed. It was amazing I had energy most of the day. However I fell asleep early at night for about an hour then I was UP UP UP for a long time so I know I need it; it wore off in less than a day. I REALLY felt the difference. I went to every kind of doctor imaginable for over 30 years - even out of the country and no one mentioned iodine until this past week although I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism repeatedly. I am so grateful to find you!!!!"

Fibrocystic Breast Disease

"Fibrocystic breasts are characterized by lumpiness and usually discomfort in one or both breasts. The condition is very common and benign, meaning that fibrocystic breasts are not malignant (cancerous). Fibrocystic breast disease (FBD), now referred to as fibrocystic changes or fibrocystic breast condition, is the most common cause of "lumpy breasts" in women and affects more than 60% of women. The condition primarily affects women between the ages of 30 and 50 and tends to become less of a problem after menopause.

The diagnosis of fibrocystic breasts is complicated by the fact that the condition can vary widely in its severity. In some women, the symptoms of fibrocystic breast condition can be very mild with minimal breast tenderness or pain. The symptoms can also be limited in time, usually occurring only premenstrually. It may not even be possible to feel any lumps when the breasts are examined by the woman herself or by her doctor. In other women with fibrocystic breasts, the pain and tenderness are constant, and many lumpy or nodular areas can be felt throughout both breasts." (per webmd.com)

How Iodine supplementation effects FBD (quoted study by Optimox)

"Breast tissue has an affinity for iodine . Iodine deficiency causes fibrocystic breast disease (FBD) with nodules, cyst enlargement, pain and scar tissue . FBD can be characterized by a lumpy painful breast, generally in reproductive aged women. Initially, this syndrome occurs in the premenstrual phase of a cycle or involves the whole cycle. These symptoms can also occur in menopausal women on estrogen therapy. In 1928 an autopsy series reported a three percent incidence of FBD, whereas in 1973 an autopsy report quoted an 89% incidence . A review by the American Academy of Pathology gives a minimum incidence for FBD of 50% but suggests that 80% of North American women are afflicted with the syndrome during their reproductive lifetime .

Ghent et al in 1993, presented data showing that iodine works great to reduce (FBD)(14). He was able to develop a protocol and a scoring system that helps doctors assess how severe a woman's FBD is. I would recommend that this scoring system be utilized by physicians in their own medical practice. A precise method of recording the patient's data will help both physicians and patients see the improvement that occurs following orthoiodosupplementation. This simple method numbers the quadrants of each breast one to four. The pathological changes that can occur in FBD are noted as micronodularity, tenderness, fibrous tissue plaques, macrocysts and turgidity. The presence or the absence of changes is recorded. For example if the micro nodularity of macrocysts disease was present in the upper half of the breasts the numerical score would be one for micro nodularity and two for the two breast quadrants scoring a total of three. If all five changes occurred in all quadrants in one breast the score would be 4 (all four breast quadrants) x5 (all five changes) equals 20 and for both breasts would be 40. Patients are also encouraged to evaluate their own symptomology as expressed by a number of zero equals symptoms worse, one equals symptoms unchanged, two equals less pain only premenstrual discomfort, three equals no pain unable to predict menstruation. The subjective scoring system was employed and graded as follows. Zero equals no palpable abnormalities normal, one equals is score of less than 7.2 and a score greater than 7 but less than the pretreatment score and three equals a score greater than the pretreatment score (See Table I).

In my practice, I have over the last four years worked with some 200 women who have FDB. On average, patients come to my office practice with a mean Ghent score of 15.7 and an average age of 41.4 years. On 12.5 mg of iodine, the score after six months will drop from a mean of score 15 down to about 12.8. On 25 mg, the score will drop down to a mean of score is 10.2. On 37.5 mg the score was 8.6. When we prescribe 50 mg of Iodoral (4 tablets) for 3 to 6 months, the average patient will have a score of 7.6 with a p-value less than 0.001 compared to baseline scores. After a full year at 50 mg iodine per day (4 tablets of Iodoralâ ), the patients mean score dropped to 3.8. We saw many patients with a score of zero, meaning no evidence of FBD. We often see patients' breast pain disappear in a 1 to 30 days at a dose of 50 mg. At lower doses, the pain persisted for a much longer time. The other findings of micronodularity, tenderness, fibrous tissue plaques, macrocysts and turgidity will take almost a full year to fully go away. Ghent felt that a score of seven or below was normal. We did not see any of the patients reach the score of zero, meaning the absence of all of the pathological symptoms and physical findings of fibrocystic breast disease while taking between 12.5 to 37.5 mg per day. Once FBD is gone, a patient may opt to drop iodine intake to 12.5 to 25 mg per day. There is a chance that the cysts will return. Optimum amount for most patients for FBD is 50 mg (4 tablets) per day continued indefinitely. Monitoring the patient's serum TSH, T4 and free T3 is done every three to six months. We did not see any major changes in serum T4, TSH and free T3 in these patients."

Testimony of Fibrocystic Breast Disease and the use of Iodine

The following testimony can be found at http://www.quackcenter.com/iodoralresults.html

Sept 16, 2005
"Hi Nancy,
"I suffered with breast soreness and pains approximately for 15 years for 3 out of 4 weeks of the month. I started on iodine in January '05, within a couple of weeks I noticed a significant difference how they felt! They still get sore approximately 1 week before my period, but NOTHING like they use too!
"Vicki"

5-10-06 I myself don't have cold hands and feet any more, have a lot more pep, and my breasts don't hurt like they did, and feel softer. Those little knots we women seem to get are all gone. I take 7 tablets a day. I think my attitude is better too, because I feel better generally. I can work long hours without running out of steam. Exercise is more fun. I seem to still get sleepy, but not bone-tired like I used to. What a relief. I'll have the urine iodine test again sometime this summer, to see if I'm to sufficiency yet.

7-12-05 Lynn writes:
"I've been using Iodoral for about a month for breast pains. So far so good. Two members of a group I'm in run breast cancer support services so they are quite interested in iodine's role with that. For me it seems to be helping my large breasts reduce down in size. Very interesting as large breasted women seem to need far more iodine than smaller breasted ones do."

PCOS

Until my latest research into iodine deficiency I had no idea that I have mild PCOS. I've had an irregular period pretty much since it started, began developing the usual dark hair on my chin and upper lip and also suffer from unexplained weight gain( all of which have gotten progressively worse with age and the birth of my children). I also have symptoms of hypothyroidism which I believe all women with PCOS suffer from. Coincidently the cure is simple, complete vitamin and mineral nutrition with emphasis on a high Iodine supplement.

Symptoms of PCOS

* infrequent menstrual periods, no menstrual periods, and/or irregular bleeding
* infertility (not able to get pregnant) because of not ovulating
* increased hair growth on the face, chest, stomach, back, thumbs, or toes-a condition called hirsutism (HER-suh-tiz-um)
* ovarian cysts
* acne, oily skin, or dandruff
* weight gain or obesity, usually carrying extra weight around the waist
* insulin resistance or type 2 diabetes
* high cholesterol
* high blood pressure
* male-pattern baldness or thinning hair
* patches of thickened and dark brown or black skin on the neck, arms, breasts, or thighs
* skin tags, or tiny excess flaps of skin in the armpits or neck area
* pelvic pain
* anxiety or depression due to appearance and/or infertility
* sleep apnea-excessive snoring and times when breathing stops while asleep

The Cure

"Iodine deficiency may cause the ovaries to develop cysts, nodules and scar tissue. At its worse this ovarian pathology is very similar to that of polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS). As of the writing of this article I have five PCOS patients. The patients have successfully been brought under control with the use of 50 mg of iodine per day. Control with these patients meaning cysts are gone, periods every 28 days and type 2 diabetes mellitus under control." http://iodine4health.com/ortho/flechas_ortho.htm

"Resolution of cysts. Iodine therapy resolves nearly every case of breast cysts. This treatment also can heal ovarian cysts and works well on skin cysts when rubbed over the cyst."http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james37.htm


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## ChristSavesAll

Diabetes

Doctors Abraham, Flechas and Brownstein tested more than 4,000 patients taking iodine in daily doses ranging from 12.5 to 50 mg, and in those with diabetes, up to 100 mg a day. These investigators found that "iodine does indeed reverse fibrocystic disease; their diabetic patients require less insulin; hypothyroid patients, less thyroid medication; symptoms of fibromyalgia resolve, and patients with migraine headaches stop having them." We can expect even better results when iodine is combined with magnesium chloride.

Type1 diabetes and the use of Iodine (the following is quoted from http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-10/IOD_10.htm)

"It was while treating a large 320-pound woman with insulin dependent diabetes that we learned a valuable lesson regarding the role of iodine in hormone receptor function. This woman had come in via the emergency room with a very high random blood sugar of 1,380 mg/dl. She was then started on insulin during her hospitalization and was instructed on the use of a home glucometer. She was to use her glucometer two times per day. Two weeks later on her return office visit for a checkup of her insulin dependent diabetes she was informed that during her hospital physical examination she was noted to have FBD. She was recommended to start on 50 mg of iodine(4 tablets) at that time. One week later she called us requesting to lower the level of insulin due to having problems with hypoglycemia. She was told to continue to drop her insulin levels as long as she was experiencing hypoglycemia and to monitor her blood sugars carefully with her glucometer. Four weeks later during an office visit her glucometer was downloaded to my office computer, which showed her to have an average random blood sugar of 98. I praised the patient for her diligent efforts to control her diet and her good work at keeping her sugars under control with the insulin. She then informed me that she had come off her insulin three weeks earlier and had not been taking any medications to lower her blood sugar. When asked what she felt the big change was, she felt that her diabetes was under better control due to the use of iodine.

Two years later and 70 pounds lighter this patient continues to have excellent glucose control on iodine 50 mg per day. We since have done a study of twelve diabetics and in six cases we were able to wean all of these patients off of medications for their diabetes and were able to maintain a hemoglobin A1C of less than 5.8 with the average random blood sugar of less than 100. To this date these patients continue to have excellent control of their Type II diabetes. The range of daily iodine intake was from 50 mg to 100 mg per day. All diabetic patients were able to lower the total amount of medications necessary to control their diabetes. Two of the twelve patients were controlled with the use of iodine plus one medication. Two patients have control of diabetes with iodine plus two medications. One patient had control of her diabetes with three medications plus iodine 50 mg. The one insulin dependent diabetic was able to reduce the intake of Lantus insulin from 98 units to 44 units per day within a period of a few weeks.

In the Type 1 diabetics that we have been following we have noted that if C-peptide is measurable, this would suggest that the individual is making their own insulin. I have been able to help this group of patients to get off insulin or to greatly reduce the amount they need for good glucose control with Iodoralâ at 4 tablets/day (50 mg). If C-peptide is absent then we feel there is no insulin being produced and we have not been able to help this particular group of patients to get off their insulin. We have been able to help these patients lower the total amount of insulin needed to control their glucose."

Glaucoma

Iodine is concentrated in certain parts of the eye and has been used therapeutically for various eye diseases and infections.

Iodine may be useful for dry eyes, cataracts, infections, glaucoma, and UVB protection.

Winkler et al found that the iodine content in the ocular tissues showed the following rank order: cornea > retina > vitreous body > anterior chamber fluid > lens. They discuss the possible protective, antioxidative, and OH-scavenging efficacy of iodide. They have researched using iodide for UVB-protection, dry eyes, and cataracts.

Elstner et al focus on iodide and cataracts, as well as the antioxidant effect of iodide.

Bolt discusses the use of povidone eye drops -- how they are used today and how they were used historically.

Howenstine suggests that iodine may be implicated in glaucoma.

Mazumdar investigated lacrimal gland peroxidase and iodide in sheep.

Using Iodine to treat Glaucoma

Here is a testimonial that can be found at http://www.curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=878652

"My dad has both glaucoma and cataracts. The surgery was for the cataracts. There is no surgery for glaucoma. The only "solution" is the use of pressure reducing eye drops which are meant to be taken forever once started (so the doc said).

HOWEVER, as he measured the pressure today it turned out to be completely normal.
This means that the cataract surgery would now be safe to do, whereas if someone also has glaucoma the high pressure makes it risky.

BUT the doc also CANCELLED the surgery for now. He said to wait and see if the cataracts will improve/go away by continuing the Lugols!! He was very impressed that the Iodine got the eye pressure down to normal. As I mentioned before, my dad did not use the prescribed eye drops more than a couple times, simply to give his eyes a rest of the pressure. He has not taken them for two weeks already at all.

So, my dad is now waiting to see if the cataracts will go away with Lugol. If not, he would still need the surgery, BUT it wont be risky anymore, which was a real concern.

I am hopeful he wont need surgery in the end, since iodine is also indicated for cataracts
http://iodine4health.com/body/body.htm "


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## ChristSavesAll

Skin Cancer

The research of Dr Tullio Simoncini (oncologist) in Rome shows that skin cancers epithileomas, basaliomas, and melanomas are caused by Candida fungus.

Epithileomas, basaliomas, and melanomas cancers have all been successfully treated an iodine solution of 7%. This destroys the proteins in the fungus completely and works very quickly.

http://www.lifeenergysolutions.com/b...n-cancer-cure/

"We placed am 83-year-old woman on ortho-iodo supplementation for six months at 50 mgs of elemental iodine daily. She experienced a tremendous increase in energy, endurance, well being, and memory. At six months all her skin peeled off and was replaced by new, younger-looking skin. She was flabbergasted and amazed at her new appearance. In our experience older women (especially over 65) noticed a major difference both physically and mentally," wrote Dr. Guy Abraham, an endocrinologist who today is providing the backbone of the movement back toward the use of iodine as an essential safe and effective medicine.

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/iodine.html

Breast Cancer

As iodine consumption has gone down, breast cancer rates have gone up. But the
research goes far deeper, exploring the effects of iodine supplementation on breast disease and breast cancer. This important breakthrough has been in the research pipeline for years but only recently found momentum. After sifting through 50 years of iodine research and corresponding with researchers around the world, the editors report that abnormal iodine metabolism, due either to bromide dominance in the environment or a dietary deficiency of iodine, must be addressed as part of a preventive and or a therapeutic strategy.

Iodine Deficiency Growing Worse

* Iodine consumption by Americans has dropped 50% since the 1970s as breast cancer rates have risen (1). In the US Goiter Belt, where iodine in the soil is lower, breast cancer is higher (2).

* By contrast, the incidence and severity of breast cancer are less in Japan than in Europe and the US, attributable to the diet (3). Japanese women consume 25 times more dietary iodine than North American women and have lower breast cancer rates (4).

* Meanwhile, since the 1970s, in the US and several other countries, iodine-blocking bromides have been added to flour, some sodas, and medications, exacerbating the iodine deficiency.

* Fluoridated drinking water also depletes iodine absorption. Thus, as women consume less iodine and excrete more due to toxic elements, our risk for breast cancer grows(5).

Iodine and Benign Breast Disease

* Blocking iodine in rats' food supply led to progressive human-like fibrocystic disease (atypia, sclerosing, calcifications, dysplastic changes) as the rats aged (6). Supplementing patients with fibrocystic disease with iodine helped to resolve fibrosis and reduced breast size (7).

* For women with painful breasts accompanying fibrocystic disease, iodine improved symptoms in more than 50% of the women who took 6.0 mg. of iodine for 6 months (8), and brown sea alga improved pain and nodularity in 94% of the women (9). From the editors' observations of the Iodine Investigation Project participants, depending on the kind of iodine agent used, painful breast symptoms have resolved in from 24 hours to two months.

* Since benign breast disease increases the risk of breast cancer (10), and iodine improves fibrocystic disease, we at Breast Cancer Choices propose studies to see if iodine supplementation decreases the risk of getting breast cancer and the risk of recurrence.

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/iodine.html

Prostate Cancer

Iodine lack is known to be a factor in the development of breast and prostate cancer. *Sixty patients with a variety of cancers were studied. All sixty patients were found to have serious iodine deficiency*.
...Another physician has seen a case of prostate cancer go into remission after taking Iodoral and supplements.
Iodine appears to work for prostate cancer as prostate cancer is similar to breast cancer in many ways. Indeed, it likely will help with most cancers. Also higher doses of iodine are required for inflammatory breast cancer. As well we know that large doses of intravenous iodine are harmless which makes one wonder what effect this would have on cancer growth."

According to Dr Guy Abraham Iodine is detected in every organ and tissue in the body. And so essential is it for life that a deficiency in it will bring a wide variety of afflictions (including cancer) that are difficult to trace back to the trace mineral,iodine. It used to be routinely added to bread as a supplement up until 20 years ago.

Endocrine Cancers And Iodine Stores

Iodine deficiency is a recognized risk factor in the development of cancer of the breast, prostate, and probably the ovary and endometrium. Breast cancer is twice as common (12.1 %) in women taking natural thyroid hormone or synthetic thyroid hormone as in women not taking thyroid hormones (6.2 %). The risk for breast cancer in women taking thyroid hormones increases with time. Women who had taken thyroid hormone for 15 years had a 19.5 % incidence of breast cancer while women who had been on thyroid hormone therapy for five years had only a 10 % incidence of breast cancer. This increase in breast cancer with time suggests that correction of a iodine deficiency might well eliminate the need for thyroid hormone and would also lower the incidence of breast cancer.

Japanese women, who are eating lots of seaweed, have the highest iodine intake (13.8 mg. daily) of women anywhere in the world. They also have the lowest incidence of breast cancer in the world. Japan has one of the lowest worldwide rates of every type of cancer with the exception of stomach cancer. In addition Japan has one of the lowest incidences of iodine deficiency, goiter (enlarged thyroid gland), and hypothyroidism. Iceland, another high iodine intake country, has low rates of goiter and breast cancer. Two countries with low iodine intakes (Thailand, Mexico) have high rates of breast cancer and goiter.

Patient Studies with Iodine Therapy

A patient of Dr. Rowen named Betty had severely painful breast cysts. She took 5 mg. of iodine daily with complete disappearance of painful breast cysts.

Veronica, another patient of Dr. Rowen, had advanced breast cancer with severe hip pain from a bone metastasis. Iodine loading test showed severe deficiency of iodine. After three months of Iodoral she still has not restored her iodine levels but her excretion of bromine has increased 10 fold. Her cancer therapy with IPT and artemisin has been stable with only an occasional IPT and she continues with 25 mg. of Iodoral three times daily. Dr. Abrahams relates that he has seen two remissions of breast cancer in persons taking 75 mg of Iodorol daily. Iodine deficiency plays a role in allowing breast cancer and prostate cancer to develop.

Another physician has seen a case of prostate cancer go into remission after taking Iodoral and supplements.
http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james37.htm


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## ChristSavesAll

http://charles_w.tripod.com/fluoride.html


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## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I don't know if it's a good approach or not, for now I'm just starting and staying at 12.5. i guess it depends on how quickly you want to get everything straightened out. I've got a plan (developed it on this vacation) to try to have myself straightened out by next April, so I have time. i think your timeline is shorter.

Yeah, my timeline is that ppaf is here, and when I get pg, I get pg. So I'm in the 'highly motivated' category


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## ChristSavesAll

Potassium Bromate Termed a Cancer Threat (Link) Per CSPI Newsroom

WASHINGTON - The Center for Science in the Public Interest today petitioned the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to prohibit the use of potassium bromate, which is used to strengthen bread dough. CSPI charged that the FDA has known for years that bromate causes cancers in laboratory animals, but has failed to ban it.

Bromate was first found to cause tumors in rats in 1982. Subsequent studies on rats and mice confirmed that it causes tumors of the kidney, thyroid, and other organs. Instead of banning bromate, since 1991 the FDA - with only partial success - has urged bakers to voluntarily stop using it.

"The FDA should fulfill its responsibility to protect the public's health," said Michael F. Jacobson, Ph.D., executive director of CSPI. "Instead of meeting privately with industry, the FDA should ban bromate immediately."

"In 1992-93 and again in 1998-99, the FDA tested several dozen baked goods and found that many contained bromate at levels considered unsafe by the agency," said Darren Mitchell, a CSPI attorney. "One sample tested recently had almost 1,000 times the detection limit. The FDA's inaction needlessly exposes consumers to this harmful additive."

Food additives that cause cancer usually can be banned under the Delaney clause of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. However, because the FDA sanctioned the use of bromate before the Delaney clause went into effect in 1958, it is harder for the agency to ban the substance.

Bromates have been banned in numerous countries, including the United Kingdom in 1990 and Canada in 1994. In addition, in 1991, California declared bromate a carcinogen under the state's Proposition 65. Baked goods sold in California would have to bear a cancer warning if they contained more than a certain level of bromate. As a result, most California bakers have switched to bromate-free processes.

Many bakers, including Best Foods, Inc. (maker of Arnold, Entenmann's, and Orowheat brand breads and rolls), Pepperidge Farm, and Pillsbury, have switched to bromate-free processes. Also, some supermarket chains, including Giant, Jewel, Ralph's, and Von's, do not use bromate.

In contrast, Interstate Brands Corp. (Wonder, Home Pride), Schmidt Baking Co. (Schmidt, Sunbeam), Tasty Baking Co. (TastyKake), and Martin's still use potassium bromate in some of their products. Among fast-food chains, Burger King, Arby's, and Wendy's use bromate in buns, and Boston Market uses it in its french sandwich bread.

CSPI advises consumers to avoid bread, rolls, doughnuts, and cakes that list "potassium bromate" or "bromated flour" among their ingredients. FDA's limited surveys found that rolls and buns are especially likely to contain high levels of bromate.

The Bromide Dominance Theory ( per http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/b...ncetheory.html)

A bromide dominance condition may develop when bromide, acquired
through environmental, occupational, iatrogenic or dietary exposure, causes
bromide levels in the body to rise high enough to inhibit iodine enzyme
metabolism.

Iodine supplementation alters the competitive bromide-iodine relationship
causing bromide excretion. Thus, bromide dominance is diminished and
proper iodine enzyme metabolism may be restored.

In the toxic 21st Century, these questions must be raised:

* Would we have such a severe iodine deficiency without bromide dominance?

* If iodine deficiency is the underlying cause of many diseases, is bromide "the underlying cause of the underlying cause?"

* Is bromide dominance creating a public health crisis?

Where Does Bromide Dominance Come From?

Bromide is an insidious, additive used in many common products, and as a
pesticide. Because of the sheer amount of bromide-supplemented products,
exposure to this man-made additive has caused a depletion of iodine in human
populations. Studies in lab animals provide alarming evidence that even small
amounts of bromide exposure can be toxic. (1)

What products contain bromide?

Currently, bromide is found in pesticides (methyl bromide), some bread products (potassium bromate), brominated vegetable oil that may be added to citrus-flavored drinks, hot tub cleansers, certain asthma inhalers and prescription drugs, plastic products, some personal care products, some fabric dyes, and as a fire retardant in mattresses, carpeting, etc. (See expanded Products' Discussion Below.)

Effects of Bromide on the Organs

Iodine depletion weakens the thyroid and other organs. (2)(3)(4)(5)(6) In individuals where the bromide-iodine ratio is less, bromide may not be problematic.

Thyroid

Elevated bromide levels have been implicated in every thyroid disease, from simple hypothyroidism to auto-immune diseases to thyroid cancer. Malenchenko found bromide levels 50 times higher in thyroid cancer than normal thyroid tissue. (7)

Rats fed even the minimal amount of bromine expected to be encountered in the environment underwent goiter-like changes (8), an arguable case of bromide dominance. In the FIRE project, exposing rats to the brominated flame retardant compound, bromocyclodecane, showed consistent effects on the thyroid hormone axis, including decreased T4. Thyroid gland cells have increased size and larger nuclei, indicating increased synthetic activity. (9)

With enhanced intake of bromide, fully one-third of the iodine content in the thyroids of rats was replaced by bromide. (10)

Skin

Skin biopsied from a woman who had been on bromide-containing sedatives for nearly four years found increased bromide in normal skin and three times that in an affected skin lesion. (11)

An infant administered a syrup containing sodium bromide developed vegetative lesions on the face and scalp. (12)

Technicians exposed to brominated compounds for prolonged periods developed multiple cherry angiomas on the trunk and extremities. (12)

Mental

The psychiatry literature abounds with cases of elevated bromide levels being implicated in mental conditions from depression to schizophrenia. (14)(15)(16) As Guy Abraham, MD, asks, "How many people with misdiagnosed bromism are currently treated with psychiatric drugs?"(17) Bromide was used to suppress women's sex drive in the 1950s.

Hearing

Potassium bromate, a bread additive, is known to cause renal damage and permanent deafness in animals and man. (18) In the FIRE project, the most relevant effect on exposing rats to 28 days to the brominated flame retardant compound, tetrabromobisphenol-A, was hearing. Specifically, the lower frequency range was affected . (19)

Kidneys

The ability of bromate to cause cancer, especially kidney cancer, is a significant health concern. (20) The gene expression in kidneys in rats given a high dose 100-week potassium bromate in their drinking water showed marked gene expression difference from the lower non-cancer dose. The high dose kidney gene expression resembled an adenoma-like expression pattern. (21)

BROMIDE IN PRODUCTS

.
BREAD

Potassium bromate as an additive to most commercial bread and baked goods probably provides the most egregious contribution to bromide overload in Western cultures.

Bromated flour is product "enriched" with potassium bromate. Some commercial bakers claim they use bromated flour because it yields dependable results, and it makes more elastic dough which can stand up to bread hooks and other commercial baking tools. (22) However, Pepperidge Farm manages to use only unbromated flour with excellent results.

NOTE ON BANNING POTASSIUM BROMATE IN BREAD:

The UK banned bromate in bread in 1990.
Canada banned bromate in bread in 1994. (23)
Proposal P230 in Australia: Food Regulation Ministerial Council (FSANZ) still has not finalized its July 2007 proposal to mandate iodized salt in breads, breakfast cereals and biscuits.

Back in 1999, the Center for Science in the Public Interest petitioned the FDA to prohibit the use of potassium bromate, charging that the FDA has known for years that bromate causes cancer in lab animals, but has failed to ban it.
(24) As of September 2007, the US FDA responded to Breast Cancer Choices inquire with the statement, " Potassium Bromate is still listed as a safe additive."

Brominated Vegetable Oil (BVO)

Brominated vegetable oil (BVO) is vegetable oil that has had atoms of the element bromine bonded to it. Brominated vegetable oil is used as an emulsifier in citrus-flavored soft drinks such as Mountain Dew, Gatorade, Powerade, Pineapple and Orange Fanta, Sun Drop, Squirt and Fresca to help natural fat-soluble citrus flavors stay suspended in the drink and to produce a cloudy appearance.

The addition of bromine increases the density of the oil, and the amount of bromine is carefully controlled to achieve a density that is the same as the water in the drink. As a result, the BVO remains suspended in the water instead of forming separate layers.

Health effects

Long after consumption of BVO in test animals, traces remain in the body fat.[citation needed] Bromine is a halogen and displaces iodine, which may depress thyroid function. Evidence for this has been extrapolated from pre-1975 cases where bromine-containing sedatives resulted in emergency room visits[1] and incorrect diagnoses of psychosis and brain damage due to side effects such as depression, memory loss, hallucinations, violent tendencies, seizures, cerebral atrophy, acute irritability, tremors, ataxia, confusion, loss of peripheral vision, slurred speech, stupor, tendon reflex changes, photophobia due to enlarged pupils, and extensor plantar responses.[2] In one case, a man who drank eight liters of Ruby Red Squirt daily had a reaction that caused his skin color to turn red and produced lesions diagnosed as bromoderma. The excessive quantities together with the fact that the man had a higher than normal sensitivity to bromine (I don't believe this to be the case) made this an unusual case.[3] A similar case reported that a man who consumed two to four liters of a cola containing BVO on a daily basis experienced memory loss, tremors, fatigue, loss of muscle coordination, headache, ptosis of the right eyelid as well as elevated serum chloride.[4] In the two months it took to correctly diagnose the problem the patient also lost the ability to walk. Luckily bromism was finally diagnosed and hemodialysis was prescribed which resulted in a reversal of the disorder.[1] A Pepsi product website notes that BVO has been used by the soft drink industry since 1931.[5]

In test animals, BVO consumption has caused damage to the heart and kidneys in addition to increasing fat deposits in these organs. In extreme cases BVO has caused testicular damage, stunted growth and produced lethargy and fatigue.[6]

WATER

When drinking water containing bromide is exposed to ozone, bromate ion, a powerful oxidizing agent, is formed. Two significant recalls of drinking water involving bromate have occurred: Wegmann's Food You Feel Good About
Spring Water Recall in 2006, and Coca-Cola's Dasani in 2004. (25)

TOOTHPASTE, MOUTHWASH AND GARGLES

Potassium bromate is an antiseptic and astringent in toothpaste, mouth and gargles. Very toxic if taken internally. May cause bleeding and inflammation of gums in toothpaste. (26)

BROMIDE IN FLAME RETARDANTS

Flame retardants reduce the flammability of a wide variety of commercial and household products. Some brominated home retardants migrate from the products in which they are used and are entering the environment and people. (27)

PERSONAL PRODUCTS AND SOME COSMETICS

Sodium bromate in Products: Permanent Waves, Hair Dyes, Textile Dyes Sodium bromate is in permanent wave neutralizers, hair dye material, and the textile dyeing process. (28) Benzalkonium is used as a preservative in some cosmetics. (29)

References:

Breast Cancer Choices is indebted to the pioneering bromide research of Guy E.
Abraham, MD, as well as the clinical and intellectual contributions of David
Brownstein, MD, and Jorge Flechas, MD.

(1) Vobecky M et al., Interaction of Bromine with Iodine in the Rat Thyroid Gland at Enhanced
Bromide Intake, Biol Trace Elem Res 1996.
(2) Velicky J et al., The Effect of Bromide on the Ultrastructure of Rat Thyrocytes, Ann Anat 2004.
(3) Pavelka S et al., Bromide Kinetics and Distribution in the Rat. II Distribution of Bromide in the
Body, Biol Trace Res 2000.
(4) Velicky J et al., Long Term Action of Potassium Bromide on the Rat Thyroid Gland, Acta
Histochem 1998.
(5) Velicky J et al., Potassium Bromide and the Thyroid Gland of the Rat: Morphology and
Immunochemistry 1997.
(6) Vobecky M et al., Interaction of Bromine with Iodine in the Rat Thyroid Gland at Enhanced
Bromide Intake, Biol Trace Elem Res 1996.
(7) Malenchenko AF et al., The Content and Distribution of Iodine, Chlorine and Bromide in the
Normal and Pathologically Changed Thyroid Tissue, Med Radiol 1984.
(8). Velicky J et al., Potassium Bromide and the Thyroid Gland of the Rat: Morphology and
Immunochemistry, RIA and INAA Analysis, Ann Anat 1997.
(9) www.credocluster.info Issue 6, July 2006
(10) Vobecky M et al., Interaction of Bromine with Iodine in the Rat Thyroid Gland at Enhanced
Bromide Intake, Biol Trace Elem Res 1996.
(11) Hubner K et al., Skin Bromide Content and Bromide Excretion in Bromoderma Tuberosum, Arch
Derm Res 1976.
(12) Bel S et al., Vegetant Bromoderma in an Infant, Pediatric Dermatology 2001.
(13) Cohen A et al., Cherry Angiomas Associated with Exposure to Bromides, Dermatology 2001.
(14) Horowitz BZ et al., Bromism from Excessive Cola Consumption, Clinical Toxicology 1997.
(15) Levin M., Transitory Schizophrenia Produced by Bromide Intoxication, Am J Psychiatry 1946.
(16) http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/library/...8.2chap10.html.
(17) Abraham G., The Combined Measurement of the Four Stable Halides by the Ion-Selective
Electrode Procedure Following Their Chromatographic Separation on a Strong Anion Exchange
Resin: Clinical Application, The Original Internist 2006.
(18) Morizono T et al., The Effects of Cetrimide and Potassium Bromate on the Potassium Ion
Concentration in the Inner Ear Fluid of the Guinea Pig, Physiol Bohemoslov 1988.
(19) www.credocluster.info, Issue 6 2006.
(20) www.rtctoc.com/bromate.htm.
(21) Geter D et al., Kidney Toxicogenomics of Chronic Potassium Bromate Exposure in F334 Male
Rats, EIMS Meta Data Report 2006.
(22) www.wisegeek.com.
(23) www.rtctox.com/bromate.htm.
(24). www.cspinet.org/new/bromide.htm.
(25) www.rtctox.com/bromate.htm.
(26) http://www.healthy-communications.co..._barzac95.html.
(27) www.credocluster.info, Issue 6 2006.
(28) http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11292...mate_99_5.html.
(29) www.gina.antczak.btinternet.co.uk/CU/CUHOME.htm.


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## TopazBlueMama

My dh has those lipomas-the fatty cysts a few places on his body under his skin. I wonder if iodine would help dissolve those the same as it helps breast and ovarian cysts? I want to get rid of those things! lol Anyone heard of a connection?


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## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TopazBlueMama* 
My dh has those lipomas-the fatty cysts a few places on his body under his skin. I wonder if iodine would help dissolve those the same as it helps breast and ovarian cysts? I want to get rid of those things! lol Anyone heard of a connection?

Sebaceous cysts are cysts which contain oily, fatty material. They usually appear rather suddenly on the face or in the groin or labia. Rubbing in SSKI mixed 50-50 with DMSO will almost always persuade these cysts to go away in a week or two; it appears that the iodide "dissolves" the fatty, oily material contained in the cysts, allowing your body to slowly re-absorb and dispose of it. The famous chemistry professor Louis Feiser made a point of demonstrating to all the medical students that iodine and iodide would make oils, fats, and waxes (cholesterol is actually a wax) more soluble in water. This known action of iodide might likely explain why it might be needed in patients with *lipomas*.

http://iodine4health.com/overviews/uses/panam_uses.htm


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## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TopazBlueMama* 
My dh has those lipomas-the fatty cysts a few places on his body under his skin. I wonder if iodine would help dissolve those the same as it helps breast and ovarian cysts? I want to get rid of those things! lol Anyone heard of a connection?

My dh has the same things (as does his dad). That would be awesome to think the iodine could help eventually get rid of them.


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## ChristSavesAll

I got this from http://iodine4health.com/overviews/uses/panam_uses.htm

1. Germicide: Elemental iodine is a potent germicide with wide spectrum and low tissue toxicity. A solution of 50 ppm (eg, 50 mg/L) kills bacteria in 1 min and bacterial spores in 15 min. Topically, Iodine is excellent for toenail fungus, ringworm, fever blisters, moles and skin tags, warts, hangnails, etc. Just a few drops on a q-tip is all it takes. Use daily until the topical gaffes are gone.

2. Water purification: Iodine has been used to disinfect water for nearly a century. It has advantages over chlorine in convenience and probably efficacy; many travellers find the taste less offensive as well. It appears safe for short and intermediate length use (3-6 months), but questions remain about its safety in long-term usage. It should not be used for a long term by persons with allergy to iodine, persons with active thyroid disease, or pregnant women....

3. Radioactive Fallout: There is no medicine that will effectively prevent nuclear radiations from damaging the human body cells that they strike. However, a salt of the elements potassium and iodine, taken orally even in very small quantities 1/2 hour to 1 day before radioactive iodines are swallowed or inhaled, prevents about 99% of the damage to the thyroid gland that otherwise would result. The thyroid gland readily absorbs both non-radioactive and radioactive iodine, and normally it retains much of this element in either or both forms.

When ordinary, non-radioactive iodine is made available in the blood for absorption by the thyroid gland before any radioactive iodine is made available, the gland will absorb and retain so much that it becomes saturated with non-radioactive iodine. When saturated, the thyroid can absorb only about l% as much additional iodine, including radioactive forms that later may become available in the blood: then it is said to be blocked. (Excess iodine in the blood is rapidly eliminated by the action of the kidneys.)

4. Fibrocystic Breasts: Many women develop "fibrocystic breast disease". In the 1970s, pioneering trace element researcher Dr. John Myers showed that iodine would eliminate even the most severe cases of fibrocystic breast disease. In "medium" to "minor" cases, 6 to 8 drops of SSKI or Lugol's taken in a few ounces of water daily will frequently reduce fibrocystic breast disease to insignificance within three to six months. [16]

5. Herpes virus: If the truth be known, there are many chemicals that destroy or inactivate the herpes simplex virus. Iodine is a very common antiviral, antibacterial, antifungal agent for topical use. A bit of a water soluble iodine complex like Povidine Iodine (Betadine iodine) might be added to the "zinc gluconate" wash to help in the struggle against herpes. Tincture of iodine is also used, but it is in alcohol, which may sting tender tissues. Iodine stains the skin and clothing, and it is absorbed into the skin where it has its activity. An iodine-colored zinc gluconate wash might be helpful in reminding one to retreat. Iodine disappears into the skin at rates that are different between people. For example, in a very small 1975 study patients with vulvovaginal and cervical herpes virus infections were treated with a regimen of external and intravaginal povidone-iodine preparations. In all but one case, the expected duration of symptoms and healing time were shortened.

7. Ophthalmia neonatorum prevention. "Ophthalmia neonatorum" is defined as conjunctivitis with eye discharge that occurs during the first month of life. Various bacteria can cause this condition, including gonococcus and Chlamydia trachomatis . Several agents have been used as drops in the eyes to prevent this condition in infants, including erythromycin, silver nitrate, gentamicin, and Povidone-iodine. Tetracycline and penicillin drops have also been used. Although this condition is now uncommon in industrialized nations, it remains a problem in the developing world with an incidence as high as 20-30% and cases of blindness reported in Africa each year. Povidone-iodine ophthalmic solution appears to have broad spectrum activity against bacteria, and is less expensive than many antibiotics. It therefore may be a cost-effective option in some populations. One drop of 2.5% solution in each eye has been demonstrated as being effective in multiple studies.

8. Molluscum contagiosum: Iodine has been suggested as a topical treatment for molluscum.

9. Ovarian cysts: It's very likely that SSKI helps eliminate fibrocystic breast disease and ovarian cysts at least partly through it's interaction with estrogens&#8230;.which brings us to another important use for SSKI (and other forms of iodine such as "Lugol's solution" and "di-atomic iodine"). All of these forms of iodine help your body to metabolize estrone (a slightly carcinogenic human estrogen) and 16-alpha-hydroxyestrone (a much more dangerous metabolite of human estrogen) into estriol, an "anti-carcinogenic" or at worst "neutral" form of human estrogen.

10. Dupuytren's contracture and Peyronie's disease are two "fibrotic" conditions that can be helped considerably by SSKI or Lugol's solution. In Dupuytren's contracture, thickening (fibrosis) occurs along one of the tendons in the palm in the hand, pulling the related finger down towards the palm. As the problem progresses, the finger often can't be straightened any more.

In Peyronie's disease, a very similar thickening occurs along the shaft of the penis, making erections increasing "curved" and painful. In both cases, rubbing SSKI into the thickened tissue at least twice daily softens and lessens the fibrotic area over a period of several months, allowing for more normal function.

For these conditions, it's additionally helpful to take para-aminobenzoic acid (PABA) 2 grams, three times daily, and to rub a mixture of Vitamin E and DMSO into the thickened areas, also. However, if "caught early", SSKI alone will often "do the job".

11. Keloids are abnormally thick scars, sometimes as much as an inch thick, that can form after injury. Although anyone can get a keloid, they're more common among blacks than other ethnic groups. Rubbing SSKI into a keloid at least twice daily will ultimately flatten them down to a "normal scar", but it can take many months to a year for particularly bad ones. The treatment goes faster if SSKI or Lugol's is mixed "50-50" with DMSO.

12. Fistulas are literally abnormal tunnels through tissues, "tunnels" prevented from healing by chronic infection. Two not-unusual types are "peri-anal fistulas" (a "tunnel" from outside the anus to the inside of the rectum) and "recto-vaginal" fistulas. Although these fistulas can be treated successfully by surgery, they can often be healed by frequent swabbing inside and out with an SSKI-soaked "Q-tip". Patience is required: Complete healing often takes several months. The treatment appears to work better if the SSKI is mixed with DMSO, which enhances penetration.

13. Hemorrhoids. Richard Kunin, M.D. of San Francisco, is a "world class" expert on the use of SSKI and other forms of iodine. He has found that hemorrhoids will sometimes disappear literally overnight, when SSKI (20 drops) mixed with flaxseed oil (1 ounce) is rubbed in them at bedtime. He's also found that SSKI alone will do the same job, although it "really stings" when applied to a hemorrhoid by itself.

14. Arteriosclerosis. Over 30 years ago, two ophthalmologists observed that a combination tablet called "Iodo-niacin" (iodide 120 milligrams, niacin 15 milligrams) taken for several months could actually reverse atherosclerotic clogging of arteries. They proved this effect by taking pictures of clogged arteries in the backs of the eyes (retinal photomicrographs) before and after treatment. The published photographs showed a significant lessening of the cholesterol-laden artery clogging in the "after" pictures. [14] True to cause, no follow-up study has ever been published (probably because niacin and iodide aren't patentable). Recommended is 1 to 2 drops of SSKI or Lugol's and niacin-containing B-complex daily (along with essential fatty acids or fish oil) for anyone with significant cholesterol-related atherosclerotic clogging. Thyroid function must be monitored!

15. Sebaceous cysts are cysts which contain oily, fatty material. They usually appear rather suddenly on the face or in the groin or labia. Rubbing in SSKI mixed 50-50 with DMSO will almost always persuade these cysts to go away in a week or two; it appears that the iodide "dissolves" the fatty, oily material contained in the cysts, allowing your body to slowly re-absorb and dispose of it. The famous chemistry professor Louis Feiser made a point of demonstrating to all the medical students that iodine and iodide would make oils, fats, and waxes (cholesterol is actually a wax) more soluble in water. This known action of iodide might likely explain why it might be needed in patients with lipomas.

16. Sialoliths, parotid duct stone. These are "stones" which can form in the saliva-carrying duct(s) from the major salivary glands ("parotid" glands, located at the "angle of the jaw"). 3 to 4 drops of SSKI taken in water daily reportedly will almost always dissolve parotid duct stones within four to eight months.

17. Chronic bronchitis and emphysema ("COPD"). Lugol's is an invaluable medicine, it gets into all body secretions, including often thick and hard to cough up bronchial secretions, which get infected very easily. As a well known and old time expectoran, it "loosens" secretions remarkably, making them much easier to expectorate, and it prevents micro-organisms from growing easily. With regular use, bronchial infection is a much less frequent problem for these patients. Depending on the severity of COPD, I recommend 3 to 6 drops of lugol's taken in water once daily. As COPD is usually a chronic condition, use will usually be indefinite, so make sure to monitor thyroid function!

18. Infected hangnails are perhaps the easiest to clear up this way, as are nagging bacterial infections around the edges of the toenails. Rub in the mixture several times daily, and the problem's usually gone in a few days. Herpes simplex ("herpes") ourbreaks can be "stopped cold" in the same way, but it often takes longer for the "sore" to heal itself over.

19. Enlarged tonsils. Persistent "swollen glands" in the throat or groin areas, see a doctor first! These can very rarely be signs of leukemia, lymphoma, or another cancer, especially in older people. But if all tests and studies are negative, rub in the SSKI with DMSO. In a large majority of cases, the "just swollen glands" will gradually fade away.

20. Onychomycosis. Fungus under the toenails is a difficult problem to treat. Even "conventional" anti-fungal drug treatment takes months to work, and (for safety) monthly liver function tests are necessary. Lugol's or Tincture of Iodine and DMSO rubbed on, around, and under the affected toenails doesn't work any faster, but it's just as effective, and definitely safer.

21. Vaginal infections. 20 to 30 drops in water, used in a small "douche" once daily for five to ten days will usually resolve the infection in several days.

22. Bladder Infections. 1-2 drops of lugol's in a glass of water, four times daily. Since the iodide excretion generally exits the kidney in four hours, for a severe bladder infection give it every four hours. I have treated successfully some of the worst bladder infections by this method. Lugol's works better than antibiotics, and unlike antibiotics, the infection is not so nearly prone to return.

23. Hypothyroidism. Even though iodine and iodide are absolutely essential to thyroid hormone formation, in most "developed" countries, hypothyroid conditions are not usually due to an outright lack of iodine or iodide. Still, hypothyroidism is occasionally helped by 1 drop of lugol's daily. Make sure to monitor the thyroid profiles!

24. Vegan gas. reducing the gas from eating beans! Macrobioticists have know for years that cooking beans with seaweed reduces bean flatus. If you're soaking beans before cooking them, add 1 or 2 drops of Lugol's, and let them soak for an hour or more. Pour offf that water before cooking, and add fresh water. You'll be surprised at the reduction in resulting intestinal gas! (Technical explanation: There's a naturally occurring enzyme inhibitor in beans which interferes with starch digestion in the gut, producing gas. Lugol's inactivates this enzyme inhibitor.)

25. Baldness: In Mexico, some people have used iodine as a means of preventing baldness. One woman used iodine for years as a preventive measure against her baldness. She used it as a rinse after washing her hair. Another woman told me to "cure" a bald spot by dabbing iodine on the bald spot or area of thinning hair. After a while, a crust will form. Eventually, beneath the crust fine hairs will start to grow. She said it can take about three months to see the results.

26. Heavy Metal Detox. The bioavailability of a Lugol's containing 12.5 mg elemental iodine was evaluated by measuring 24 hr urine levels of iodide together with the minerals, trace elements and toxic metals before and after administration of this preparation. The results obtained following iodine supplementation revealed that in some subjects, the urine levels of mercury, lead and cadmium increased by several fold after just one day of supplementation. For aluminum, this increased excretion was not observed usually until after one month or more on the iodine supplementation. [15] Preliminary data so far suggest that orthoiodosupplementation results in detoxification of the body from the toxic metals aluminum, cadmium, lead and mercury. One of the old materia medicas listed using iodine for mercury detoxification. [Mercurial Poisoning, and other chronic metallic toxaemiae, -Potassium Iodide, to promote elimination of the poison.]

27. Precancerous skin lesions: From my own clinical experience, repeated application of Lugol's to the skin appears to cause regeneration of the skin from the bottom up, causing eventually sloughing the old version of the skin off. It is very helpful in granulation of new skin in leg ulcers when used twice daily as a wound spray. For suspicious spots, if there was a pre-cancerous lesion on the old skin, it is replaced with new skin minus the lesion. There does not seem to be any skin lesions which are not helped or cured by this procedure. In some cases I found clinically obvious low thyroid conditions also needed to be treated to be more aggressively. Minor lacerations and healing of surgical wounds respond well. If skin regeneration is from the bottom, then there is little or no scar formation. It is better than vitamin E, but that helps too.

28. Cuts and scabs. It is my belief a water solution of iodine (like Lugol's) is an important therapeutic agent for skin. Because of its effectiveness and the results, perhaps many skin diseases are related to local tissue areas of relative iodine deficiency. Perhaps the most graphic lesions are the "keloid" (worm) incision scars formed after surgical procedures. If the iodine intake and tissue levels are adequate, such as in Japan, keloid formation doesn't happen (17). In addition, iodine's ability to trigger natural cell death (apoptosis) (18) makes it effective against all pre-cancerous skin lesions and likely many cancerous lesions. The local site is replaced with normal skin.

Our older generation tended to put tincture of iodine onto a fresh wound to prevent infection. This turns out to be helpful. It is much more effective (and doesn't hurt) to apply iodine repeatedly after a scab has been formed also. The iodine put onto the scab helps to organize total repair of the tissue. It is implied a similar approach could be taken to burns of all depths but at the same time the physiology of burns suggest there is an acute lack of thyroid hormone.

29. Common cold. The next time you feel that scratchy throat or that first onset snuffle, reach for a bottle of Lugol's and start snorting from the open top. You may be surprized to see it rapidly quench a rhinovirus infection before it sets in.

30. Breast Cancer: Based on an extensive review of breast cancer epidemiological studies, R.A. Wiseman [25] came to the following conclusions: 92-96% of breast cancer cases are sporadic; there is a single cause for the majority of cases; the causative agent is deficiency of a micronutrient that is depleted by a high-fat diet; and if such an agent is detected, intervention studies with supplementation should lead to a decline in the incidence of breast cancer. It is the opinion of several investigators that this protective micronutrient is the essential element iodine. [26] Demographic surveys of Japan and Iceland revealed that both countries have a relatively high intake of iodine and low incidences of simple endemic goiter and breast cancer. Whereas in Mexico and Thailand, just the reverse is observed -- a high incidence of both endemic goiter and breast cancer...."


----------



## TopazBlueMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
My dh has the same things (as does his dad). That would be awesome to think the iodine could help eventually get rid of them.

I agree. I've wondered if dairy was the culprit for him, but it would be great if iodine helped. His are on his leg, arm, and back. His dad has them as well.


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## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TopazBlueMama* 
My dh has those lipomas-the fatty cysts a few places on his body under his skin. I wonder if iodine would help dissolve those the same as it helps breast and ovarian cysts? I want to get rid of those things! lol Anyone heard of a connection?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
My dh has the same things (as does his dad). That would be awesome to think the iodine could help eventually get rid of them.

My dog has the same thing, not to minimize family members or anything, I wonder how high I can/should go with her. I'm actually already giving her some Iodoral, along with some other things, to deal with her hypothyroidism, since she started having new health issues that I felt were nutrient-related.

Hmmm.... if 50mg is appropriate (assuming it's tolerated) for, say, 3 months, for let's say a typical 150-pound adult person, and my dog is 50 lbs, that's looking like 17mg per day for a time, not sure if 3 months is too long or not. I may fiddle with what I'm giving her a bit. Her fatty cysts FAR predate her hypothyroidism.


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## TopazBlueMama

I'm trying to find what SSKI and DMSO stand for?


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## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TopazBlueMama* 
I'm trying to find what SSKI and DMSO stand for?

SSKI Saturated Solution Potassium Iodide

DMSO dimethyl sulfoxide


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## TopazBlueMama

hmm..this guy http://www.wrightnewsletter.com/etip...20080703b.html says that it doesn't work on lipomas. darn. but he is talking about the topical SSKI and DMSO.
Thanks Nichole!


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## FairyRae

For those of you who supp your LO's w/ iodine, how much do you give? My ds is a bit over 2 (and 32+ lbs) and I'm interested in supplementing him (I'm still kind of waiting on myself here--nervous about the nursing and detoxing...looking to keep researching this! I'm thinking about the Lugol's drops, but I'm also interested in reading some responses to Pat's question:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Jane, I would love to hear more info about why NOT to choose organic kelp or dulse which has been tested free of heavy metals, instead for the iodine. Those absorb/bind with heavy metals in the large intestine, from my understanding; and help to excrete it, in addition to the whole food benefits AND iodine.


Also, for those who are choosing to take iodine and supping other vitamins, is anyone supping w/ whole foods for magnesium and other nutrients, and what foods are you using???? (At Pat's rec. I 'supp' my selenium w/ brazil nuts--I'd love to do this for vit. C and others as well but not sure if I could get enough...I'm still in the early learning phases about all this!!)


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## ChristSavesAll

Ok found some other info about using colloidal silver for lipomas...
http://www.curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1418943

And this
"FIBROIDS- goldenseal, ramp bark, squaw vine, red raspberries, dong quai, false unicorn, rose hips, sarsaparilla, peony, uva ursi, blessed thistle, rehmannia, ginger, lobelia.*Treat LIPOMA or tumors same way*."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6308680/He...onditions-12pp


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## Theloose

here's a snip of what the sidebar at breastcancerchoices says:

"Dr. David Brownstein writes:

Caution With Kelp Supplements

[snip]

*Kelp can be an appropriate iodine source if the kelp has been tested and found free of toxic elements.* I would be very cautious about taking a kelp supplement unless the manufacture is consistently testing the kelp for purity and consistency." (bolding mine)


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## Panserbjorne

whoMe, I'll also add to that that a good source of kelp or dulse can be great for maintenance but it would be VERY hard to get enough to close the gap of someone who was really deficient. I'm a whole foods gal myself, but I tend to look for stabilization first. It's just one perspective though!

In other words, yes for some people it would be fine. IF you have several symptoms of deficiency though...I wouldnt' want to wait for supplementation with seaweed to catch up with me.


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## changingseasons

I've seen lots of references here to Lugol's and Iodoral... which I was going to buy, and then opted for a cheaper brand.

Does brand make a difference? Are there different types of iodine supplements that we should/should not be using? (Like all the different forms of folate/folic acid/folinic acid/5-mthfr/you get the picture...)

Mine is a liquid, 1 drop = 600mcg. I figure that is a nice low dose to start out with and work my way up. Does that seem ok? (I mentioned the brand earlier, but it's Atomidine if anyone wants to know.)


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## Theloose

Okay. So still thinking about detoxing to nurslings...

If mom's not noticing any detox symptoms then is it likely that we don't have to worry about nursling so much? Or could the LO still be getting a bunch of toxins, even though mom doesn't feel it?


----------



## Jennemiah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Okay. So still thinking about detoxing to nurslings...

If mom's not noticing any detox symptoms then is it likely that we don't have to worry about nursling so much? Or could the LO still be getting a bunch of toxins, even though mom doesn't feel it?

I've kind of been wondering the same thing, given my lack of detoxing symptoms. Now that I think about it, DD did have some (really yellow) cradle cap suddenly crop up about 4 weeks after I started taking Iodoral. I wondered at the time whether this was a sign of bromide detox, since neither of us had eaten any of her usual food triggers recently, and since one of the articles at optimox mentioned something about yellow excretions being potential signs of bromide detox???

I feel like I just added to your question rather than answering it...anyone else?


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## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Okay. So still thinking about detoxing to nurslings...

If mom's not noticing any detox symptoms then is it likely that we don't have to worry about nursling so much? Or could the LO still be getting a bunch of toxins, even though mom doesn't feel it?

I'm going with B. If you want my input always ALWAYS watch the nursling. If your HPA axis is screwy you may not notice any mobilization.


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## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Okay. So still thinking about detoxing to nurslings...

If mom's not noticing any detox symptoms then is it likely that we don't have to worry about nursling so much? Or could the LO still be getting a bunch of toxins, even though mom doesn't feel it?

Based on my playing around with various things (so, sample size = 1 adult and 1 nurseling), there's a gap between when we increase our circulating toxins and when we start feeling bad. To me, it seems like detox reactions like headaches, nasty fatigue, all that stuff, mean there's a big disconnect between what's mobilized and our excretion bandwidth. But when the gap is little, or if we are mobilizing more but we can excrete it too, then we don't feel bad, and we're getting healthier, but more "stuff" is circulating in our bodies, it's going to travel through our bloodstreams at some point while it tries to get out, and that's when it can get into our milk.

I tried something (on my own accord, not on my HCP's recommendation) a couple years ago, and a) I felt better, I felt happier and my mood was more stable, and b) I started smelling like cigarette smoke (from my skin), and I didn't feel at all bad or sick or anything, nothing that said hey, too much, but within a couple weeks I figured out that I'd mobilized a lot to my nursing son (he was maybe 18 mos old? more than 14 mos, less than 21). And he didn't start doing anything weird like spinning or anything, or getting sick more often, or whatever. So to me it seems like really being slow and cautious and doing everything possible to support kiddo's detox pathways and mom's is appropriate. FWIW, it was seeing my son's vitC need jump (the amt it took for him to be at bowel tolerance) that made me realize that my improvements were a sign that I was changing a lot in my body.

Panserbjorne--can you talk a bit about our HPA axis and how that plays in? I'm clueless but very interested if you have the time.


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## neverdoingitagain

I have only been able to find a few sources of Iodine where I am. Does anyone here have any opinions on these brands and types?

Trophic Iodine-liquid (625mcg)
Bernard Jessen Liquid Dulse(225mcg)

There is iodine in the form of kelp, but I don't think its a very good brand(Jamieson). I have looked for Lugol's and Iodoral locally, but no luck. Are the two I mentioned, brands that would be viewed favorably?


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## prairiechild

My brother picked up a couple of bottles of lugol's in canada for me a year or so ago. I believe it is easier to buy there than here in the usa. I would keep looking for the lugol's.


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## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neverdoingitagain* 
I have only been able to find a few sources of Iodine where I am. Does anyone here have any opinions on these brands and types?

Trophic Iodine-liquid (625mcg)
Bernard Jessen Liquid Dulse(225mcg)

There is iodine in the form of kelp, but I don't think its a very good brand(Jamieson). I have looked for Lugol's and Iodoral locally, but no luck. Are the two I mentioned brands that would be viewed favorably?

I used the liquid dulse when I first began supplementing, along with One n Only multi, Carlson's Cod liver oil, and siberian ginseng. Liquid dulse is my personal fave when it comes to liquid iodine, I noticed a boost in energy within minutes of taking it.

I began supping when dd was 2months. I gradually upped my dose from drops of liquid-dulse, to half an iodoral, then a whole one, then two, then one potassium iodide pill (32.5mg) over the course of about 4-6 weeks..

I never saw any negative side effects from dd, only improvements. Shortly after supping, she stopped spitting up, her once a week poops became once a day poops, she stopped behaving colicky and she has only been sick a couple times despite being around my niece and nephew who were sick every weekend usually with a stomach flu. Oh and I convinced my sister to give them supps and they havent been sick since!

I found the siberian ginseng helps with your adrenals and when you begin supping with iodine it's important to properly support your adrenals as they are overworked and detoxing to help your thyroid puts stress on your adrenals. Haven't had any negative side effects in either myself or dd.


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## mom61508

Should I take siberian ginseng while nursing? I have adrenal fatigue. plan on starting liquid dulse soon. does calcium interfere with the iodine?


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
I used the liquid dulse when I first began supplementing, along with One n Only multi, Carlson's Cod liver oil, and siberian ginseng.

On the liquid dulse I noticed it says caramel color do you happen to know what it's derived from?
I'm gluten free


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Panserbjorne--can you talk a bit about our HPA axis and how that plays in? I'm clueless but very interested if you have the time.









:
I've *never* noticed any dieoff or mobilization or anything I can identify, and that's part of why I'm assuming I don't have much of a metals issue...


----------



## Theloose

Bringing this over from the inflammation thread...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
whoMe, if you think bromide could be a real issue for you, then that could be the cause of the inflammation. Various toxins mess with people in various ways, maybe the only way to figure it out is to get you some Iodoral/Lugol's or whatever and see how you feel with 1 pill, and then try to ramp up, using salt flushes as needed. Personally, I think if you're trying to mobilize toxins, you should actively avoid TTC, so deciding to do that has pros and cons. But I'd think within 2-3 weeks of actively playing with iodine and the salt flushes, you should see if that's likely a big issue for you.

I have 2.2% Lugols. So something on the order of 2.75mg/drop. A year ago, I started with one drop per day, and didn't notice anything. On two drops/day, I got a pinprick rash on the inside of one elbow that lasted a couple weeks, but never hurt or itched. I've been doing ~2 drops a day for a few months, and not noticed anything.

I'm a little confused about the salt flushes... It sounds like they mobilize bromine. But they help with detox symptoms from iodine, which are presumably from bromine? Would a salt flush plus the iodine companion nutrients, especially vitamin C but without the iodine... be dangerous for dd?

And we know an adult maintenance dose is about 12.5 mg. What would it be for a 2yo?

I'm just full of questions, aren't I?


----------



## tanyalynn

I can only compare with my experience, but supplementing only 5-ish milligrams per day and you had a rash, that sounds like it's doing something. I haven't had anything at 12mg/day. So this does sound like it's worth exploring. Panserbjorne would know better about salt flushes and nursing.


----------



## JTA Mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
I used the liquid dulse when I first began supplementing, along with One n Only multi, Carlson's Cod liver oil, and siberian ginseng. Liquid dulse is my personal fave when it comes to liquid iodine, I noticed a boost in energy within minutes of taking it.

I began supping when dd was 2months. I gradually upped my dose from drops of liquid-dulse, to half an iodoral, then a whole one, then two, then one potassium iodide pill (32.5mg) over the course of about 4-6 weeks..

Nichole, your story with your dd has calmed me a bit about the detox worries I've had. You mentioned that you took siberian ginseng to support adrenals. How much did you take? I haven't seen any recommendations on that part. Also, I know calcium interferes with iodine, does magnesium? I'm very low on magnesium (get migraine headaches, had pre-eclampsia) & should supplement with that. Do you know if it interferes with iodine like calcium? Or is it safe to take mag to sufficiency while trying the iodine.

I'm also wondering if I should just start with iodine, THEN add in the rest of the supps one at a time. That way I'm sure any reactions I am having are due to the iodine rather than any of the other supps.

Oh, and a last question,







What is your source for getting all the supplements. I don't want to go to Whole Foods to get these, since they are crazy $$ there. Do you have any online sources?

Thanks!!!

Ami


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I've started taking it again, I guess it's been about 3 months. For simplicity, I've just stayed at 1 Iodoral a day while I focus on other stuff. Not sure if that's good, bad, or indifferent, I'm reading the thread to figure it out! Need to go back and read a couple of the optimox links from Jane, I think they're going to argue that I should just take more.









Maybe!
12.5 mg or 1 tablet Iodoral or 2 drops Lugol's 5% is considered a standard daily dosage for women by Abraham/Flechas/Brownstein AFTER reaching full body sufficiency. To support the breasts and thyroid and 2mg for rest of body. Women who are larger or with larger breasts need more. Men will need less b/c they have less breast tissue. You need more if thyroid problems or other iodine deficient health indications.

I would be very interested in your AM temps to see how your thyroid is doing. My understanding is that thyroid problems show up in the bloodwork after there has been a problem for quite some time... AM temps per Broda Barnes will tell you everytime (hypo or hyper).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I've never seen anything to suggest that iodine will pull mercury out of your fillings.

I know very little about this but Brownstein has done urine blood tests showing tiny amount of mercury in urine at baseline and a huge jump upon starting 50mg Iodoral. Still remaining elevated after 30 days. I thought I read that mercury binds to iodine receptors? I really don't know if this is true but it would be very important to find out!

I'm still having such a hard time increasing my iodine, either I'm *very* bromide toxic or its the mercury. I think I will be doing the test although I really DO NOT want to take 50mg of iodine.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Jane, I would love to hear more info about why NOT to choose organic kelp or dulse which has been tested free of heavy metals, instead for the iodine. Those absorb/bind with heavy metals in the large intestine, from my understanding; and help to excrete it, in addition to the whole food benefits AND iodine. Seems to 'kill two birds with one stone' as it were: iodine and helps with the (released/circulating) mercury/heavy metal stores (bromides too?). I'm not completely clear on the physiology of it. But, I'm just a whole foods gal.









Pat

*Big reason NOT to choose seaweed for your iodine: BROMIDES. And arsenic.*

Yes, seaweeds can contain significant amounts of bromide. It is thought to be the cause of goiter in certain Japanese studied with very high iodine intake from seaweed who by rights shouldn't have goiter at all. I wonder if my past large consumption of seaweed are contributing to my very hard time I'm having with 1-2 drops of Lugol's. I have to say I'm regretting not studying enough... as you know I'm a whole foods kind of gal too!

(and I think seaweed does NOT contain iodide?)

I can't do 2 drops of Lugol's (12.5mg). I feel completely horrible even with salt flushes 3x day. And I think I'm getting a yeast infection which I haven't had in years! This could also be mercury detox causing yeast? I need to find out more. Thank goodness for Candex.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Just ordered Dr Brownstein's book.

Me too, his 2009 edition. The one I read before was his first one. This new ed. has info on children and detox I wanted to get.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I would be very interested in your AM temps to see how your thyroid is doing. My understanding is that thyroid problems show up in the bloodwork after there has been a problem for quite some time... AM temps per Broda Barnes will tell you everytime (hypo or hyper).

I read somewhere, once, long ago, that taking 12.5 mg over time will slowly correct the deficiency, on the order of a year. I've got time, I've been putting this on the back burner for that reason. I am considering increasing for a while. One thing I've really wondered, since I've seen it with other nutrients, is, since I am doing some pretty intensive things to detoxify, well, that uses up nutrients. I've had to increase other supps at times as a result, so I wonder if I will use up iodine at an increased rate for the next year or so until I'm done, so my deficiency won't correct, even if other peoples' would.

Ooh, but I wanted to ask, what does Broda Barnes say for BBTs, and are the numbers pre- or post- ovulation? I have been confused in the past about BBTs in relation to ovulation. I know mine are a heckuva lot higher than they used to be, and my daytime temps overall are verging on normal--I am above 98F most days (during the day, I mean)!







: I should start tracking my BBT again to know exactly what it is.

I know very little about this but Brownstein has done urine blood tests showing tiny amount of mercury in urine at baseline and a huge jump upon starting 50mg Iodoral. Still remaining elevated after 30 days. I thought I read that mercury binds to iodine receptors? I really don't know if this is true but it would be very important to find out!

I think mobilization is definitely possible, and I wonder about the effect on my son for this. But I don't think it pulls from what's actually in your amalgams, I think it's mobilizing what your body has stored. Though I didn't have any symptoms starting it, so I just don't know how variable this is. I was/am iodine deficient, definitely.

I'm still having such a hard time increasing my iodine, either I'm *very* bromide toxic or its the mercury. I think I will be doing the test although I really DO NOT want to take 50mg of iodine.









Is the test for the bromide? Have you tried the salt flushes to see if they help? I tried, just to see if it would be good/bad/do nothing, and ended up just rehydrating myself. Adrenal fatigue + consuming too little salt = dehydrated person. I'm hoping your adrenals are in better shape.

eta: you answered the salt flush question while I had my reply window open.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennemiah* 
One question I do have - I thought full strength Lugol's solution was only available with a prescription. Is that true? My understanding is that it's much cheaper than Iodoral, but that it tastes awful. So I'm considering trying to get ahold of some just to see if I could stand it and save a few $$.

Not sure yet if it's helping with my fibroadenoma...might need to give it a little longer, apparently it can take awhile.


It might take awhile and you might need 50mg per day at least. I have read that some clinicians use even more.

Full strength Lugol's is still available at compounding pharmacies only 1 oz at a time. You need to check and make sure it's the 5% iodine, 10% potassium iodide and 85% water recipe. They do not allow any more than one oz. b/c it can be used to manufacture drugs.

I don't think it tastes horrible, I wouldn't make my son take it but I don't mind. It tastes like iodine, no big deal. I mix in a couple oz of water or put in an empty gel cap.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Is the test for the bromide? Have you tried the salt flushes to see if they help? I tried, just to see if it would be good/bad/do nothing, and ended up just rehydrating myself. Adrenal fatigue + consuming too little salt = dehydrated person. I'm hoping your adrenals are in better shape.

eta: you answered the salt flush question while I had my reply window open.









The flushes do work on the headache for a while but it comes back. I'm using 1/4-1/2 tsp. celtic sea salt 3x day. About 10 grams vitamin C, I cannot tell bowel tolerance right now b/c I'm taking more magnesium. Maybe I need more C?

I chug another glass of water after the salt and haven't noticed dehydration at all. But other symptoms it hasn't helped. I've been sooooooo cranky and not sleeping well either! The yi thing really pisses me off too after being so content for so long. Bah Humbug! Everyone else on this thread will be like, "I feel great, so energetic and euphoric, thanks Jane!"


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
Also, I know calcium interferes with iodine, does magnesium? I'm very low on magnesium (get migraine headaches, had pre-eclampsia) & should supplement with that. Do you know if it interferes with iodine like calcium? Or is it safe to take mag to sufficiency while trying the iodine.

I'm also wondering if I should just start with iodine, THEN add in the rest of the supps one at a time. That way I'm sure any reactions I am having are due to the iodine rather than any of the other supps.

Oh, and a last question,







What is your source for getting all the supplements. I don't want to go to Whole Foods to get these, since they are crazy $$ there. Do you have any online sources?

Thanks!!!

Ami

Actually Abraham recommends a month on supplements, THEN start iodine.

*Magnesium is very important* as an antioxidant on iodine supplementation. Abraham says any problems people have with iodine they are on a too high amount of calcium (he says 2000-3000 milligrams per day). He recommends 1200mg. per day. This should be spread out, it's a pretty high dose and might cause diarrhea.

I like www.IHerb.com for supplements myself, been ordering monthly for years and never been disappointed.

New customers can get $5 off with code: BOS439.

I do like Whole Foods for trying anything new though b/c their return policy is so easy.


----------



## JaneS

Tanya,

BBT Temp Testing is most accurate on 2nd and 3rd day of your period:

Quote:



Chapter 4

LOW THYROID:
The Unsuspected Illness

How can the thyroid affect my health?
During nearly 50 years of clinical practice, Dr. Broda Barnes, M.D., Ph.D. has seen thousands of people suffering from undiagnosed cases of low thyroid function (hypothyroidism). His discoveries led him to write a book called "Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness".

Dr. Barnes noted that hypothyroidism often goes undiagnosed because blood thyroid values are usually inaccurate. He recommends a simple test, called the Basal Temperature test, which the patient can perform at home.

Dr. Barnes has found the basal temperature to be one of the most valid tests to evaluate thyroid function. The temperature test should be done upon awakening in the morning, but before leaving your bed.

HOW TO TAKE THE BASAL TEMPERATURE TEST FOR DETERMINING LOW THYROID

1) If you are male or a non-menstruating female, take a digital thermometer or an oral mercury thermometer (which has been shaken down and placed at the bedside the previous evening) and place it in your armpit for 10 minutes immediately upon awakening while lying quietly in bed. Repeat the test three days in a row. Normal temperature is 97.8 degrees to 98.2 degrees. If your temperature is low, your thyroid gland is probably underactive. [If it is higher, that can signal hyperthyroidism.]

*************Note*************
DO NOT use an electric blanket for 24
hours prior to taking your temperature.
******************************

2)If you are a female who menstruates, do the above test on the second and third day of your period in the same manner.

3) If you have a very young child and you are unable to take his armpit temperature, you can take the rectal temperature for two minutes. Normal would be 1 degree higher than the above, that is 98.8 degrees to 99.2 degrees.

4)Record your results below and bring this record to your physician.

RESULTS: TEMPERATURE:

Date:________ Day 1: ___________________
Date:________ Day 2: ___________________
Date:________ Day 3: ___________________
Date:________ Day 4: ___________________
Date:________ Day 5: ___________________


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Me too, his 2009 edition. The one I read before was his first one. This new ed. has info on children and detox I wanted to get.

You had me freaking out for a minute there. The 4th edition is the 2009 edition, yeah?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I can't do 2 drops of Lugol's (12.5mg). I feel completely horrible even with salt flushes 3x day. And I think I'm getting a yeast infection which I haven't had in years! This could also be mercury detox causing yeast? I need to find out more. Thank goodness for Candex.

Isn't there something about some people doing better on a high dose than a low-ish one? Something about the symporters and the way you process the iodine? I think the answer is linked on this page, but I haven't actually done the research yet


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Is the test for the bromide?


Forgot to answer before. Yes. Both the iodine and bromide tests. The more I've been reading about Sodium iodide symporter (NIS) system defects too I'm thinking if it's obvious I have issues I should just get it done the right way.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I think mobilization is definitely possible, and I wonder about the effect on my son for this. But I don't think it pulls from what's actually in your amalgams, I think it's mobilizing what your body has stored. Though I didn't have any symptoms starting it, so I just don't know how variable this is. I was/am iodine deficient, definitely.

Yes you are right, it probably doesn't pull from amalgams. Mine are all gone, this would be body load for me. It seems to me if mercury is clogging iodine receptors it would make sense it would mobilize mercury. But like I said, I haven't researched yet.


----------



## TopazBlueMama

JaneS said:


> *Big reason NOT to choose seaweed for your iodine: BROMIDES. And arsenic.*
> 
> Yes, seaweeds can contain significant amounts of bromide. It is thought to be the cause of goiter in certain Japanese studied with very high iodine intake from seaweed who by rights shouldn't have goiter at all. I wonder if my past large consumption of seaweed are contributing to my very hard time I'm having with 1-2 drops of Lugol's. I have to say I'm regretting not studying enough... as you know I'm a whole foods kind of gal too!
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> That is interesting, because I've been wondering why my friend who lives in Japan was told by her doctors to avoid seaweed because of her thyroid or goiter issues.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
You had me freaking out for a minute there. The 4th edition is the 2009 edition, yeah?

Yes, all is well.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Isn't there something about some people doing better on a high dose than a low-ish one? Something about the symporters and the way you process the iodine? I think the answer is linked on this page, but I haven't actually done the research yet









Hmmm... will read. I'm _skeered_ though! I cannot tell you how crappy I feel just from trying to work up to 2 drops. And my lymph nodes are sore. I need to take another magnesium bath tonight. I'm considering a sauna! I so don't have the bandwidth in my life for this right now but I gotta start.

I wonder if mercury interferes with the symporters. I need to spend some time over at the CureZone Iodine forum.


----------



## WuWei

Ok, not saying I understood every word of this study.







But, from what I get out of it, kelp has some superior anti-oxidative properties, especially for bromide and iodide, it appears.

"Now scientists have determined that brown kelp, which boasts the highest concentration of *iodide* of any plant or animal."

"*Iodide* is accumulated in the cell wall space of the outer (cortical) seaweed tissues."

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=2383960
http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/M300247200v1
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=2383960
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18458346
http://www.innovations-report.de/htm...ht-112680.html

*The Importance of Kelp:* http://www.jcrows.com/kelp.html

Quote:

The main argument is that ocean plants such as kelps, which are some of the most mineral rich plants on earth, can be used to provide the body with minerals and nutrition missing from land based food products.

detoxify people by removing toxins and waste from the tissue through the power of kelps and other sea plants*2*.
It contains many photosynthetic vitamins, trace minerals, lipids, plant sterols, amino acids, omega 3's and 6's, anti-oxidants, growth hormones, polyphenols, flavenoids.
It also contains cancer preventing photochemicals, Fucoidan, Laminarin and Alginate compounds, which are not found in land plants*1*.
It has been known that kelp is traditionally used to treat hyperthyroidism, enlarged thyroid glands*5*.
Fucoidan minerals, which are found in marine algae, are often used to maintain healthy skin and hair.
Kelps and other algae inhibit the uptake of heavy metals, which can shorten one's lifespan*2*.
Studies have shown that the active ingredient in kelp, sodium alginate, inhibits the uptake of heavy metals and Radiostrontium 90 (nuclear fallout)*2*.
Fucoidan minerals are natural antioxidants which fights free radicals that damage cells*4*.
These minerals and nutrition are only found in seaweed and kelps and lacking in any land based plants.


http://healthpsych.psy.vanderbilt.edu/seavegg.htm

Where does all this bottled iodine come from?









*Extracting iodine from seaweed*

_Ribbon seaweeds (sp. laminaria) contain *iodine* compounds which they obtain by extracting iodide ions from seawater. This iodine can be extracted from the *seaweed* by heating it in air to an ash, in which the iodine is present as iodide.

The iodide is dissolved out of the residue by boiling water, the solution filtered and the iodide oxidised to iodine using *hydrogen peroxide*. The iodine colours the solution brown at this stage. Isolating the iodine from this solution can be done by *solvent extraction*, followed by evaporation of the solvent._
_http://www.practicalchemistry.org/ex...ed,256,EX.html_
_http://books.google.com/books?id=pNN...m=10#PPA264,M1_

Pat


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Hmmm... will read. I'm _skeered_ though! I cannot tell you how crappy I feel just from trying to work up to 2 drops. And my lymph nodes are sore. I need to take another magnesium bath tonight. I'm considering a sauna! I so don't have the bandwidth in my life for this right now but I gotta start.

I wonder if mercury interferes with the symporters. I need to spend some time over at the CureZone Iodine forum.

It was something Stephanie said on the iodine yahoo group, but I'm searching the archives now and can't come up with anything (well, besides my own post asking about it because I couldn't find it in the archives







). The best I can put together is that high bromine/low iodine shuts down the symporters and that the best way to get them going again is to blast with high dose iodine and tons of vitamin C.
I think these are the articles she pointed me to. Time to read them myself!
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-21/IOD_21.htm
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-11/IOD_11.htm


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
The flushes do work on the headache for a while but it comes back. I'm using 1/4-1/2 tsp. celtic sea salt 3x day. About 10 grams vitamin C, I cannot tell bowel tolerance right now b/c I'm taking more magnesium. Maybe I need more C?

I've never taken mag to bowel tolerance, I just skate along with my usual supps and add a bit of extra mag if I feel I need it. You could be mobilizing a lot and really increasing your vitC need, it may be worth re-checking to see if it's changed a lot since whenever. If it's mercury causing the headache, modifilan will make it go away. At least it works for me and the kids, but if you do try it, you may need a lot. I took 8 capsules a couple hours after I had my amalgams out and my headache was coming on, then another 6 10 minutes later, as a comparison point.

I chug another glass of water after the salt and haven't noticed dehydration at all. But other symptoms it hasn't helped. I've been sooooooo cranky and not sleeping well either! The yi thing really pisses me off too after being so content for so long. Bah Humbug! Everyone else on this thread will be like, "I feel great, so energetic and euphoric, thanks Jane!"
















For me not sleeping well means increased oxidative stress. My solution is increasing my melatonin (waiting for







from a few people







) but it's working for now.

Heck, if you're gonna feel miserable, just get yourself some DMSA and or some ALA and go to it!







Though it sounds like you're making progress on _something_.

Hey, if you want another option for circulating toxins, this is what I do...
http://www.perque.com/pdfs/Pt_Ascorbate_Slush_FIN.pdf


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
For me not sleeping well means increased oxidative stress. My solution is increasing my melatonin (waiting for







from a few people







) but it's working for now.

Heck, if you're gonna feel miserable, just get yourself some DMSA and or some ALA and go to it!








Though it sounds like you're making progress on _something_.

Hey, if you want another option for circulating toxins, this is what I do...
http://www.perque.com/pdfs/Pt_Ascorbate_Slush_FIN.pdf

Yeah it doesn't feel like progress let me tell you. I've been chatting with my dietician who has done this herself and I'll probably be seeing the enviromental dr. she's worked with (he is also a DAN that's seen my DS in past). I feel weird going back to him myself! I don't feel like I should be doing this on my own and I definitely should be doing something. Time to stop focusing on DS or worrying about other family issues.

Melatonin never helped me believe it or not, but that reminds me I should up my Jarrow sublingual methyl B12, which did. My thinking is so foggy at times it's kinda scary, it's gotta be mercury right? I need some zeolite or modiflan! Man I knew not chelating was gonna bite me in butt at some point. I was having so much fun on my merry happy feeling good way though it was easy to ignore...







:

Which ascorbate do you use, link to the brand if you could? I have Nutribiotics sodium ascorbate but I gather you use something different for the flush?


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
It was something Stephanie said on the iodine yahoo group, but I'm searching the archives now and can't come up with anything (well, besides my own post asking about it because I couldn't find it in the archives







). The best I can put together is that high bromine/low iodine shuts down the symporters and that the best way to get them going again is to blast with high dose iodine and tons of vitamin C.
I think these are the articles she pointed me to. Time to read them myself!
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-21/IOD_21.htm
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-11/IOD_11.htm

100 mg iodine!!!!







:

That's interesting though that it's combined with very high doses of B2 & B3 only in the first link.

Quote:

Further studies revealed that the potentiating effects of ATP cofactors vitamin B2 and B3 on orthoiodosupplementation in FM patients was not observed until the daily amounts were increased to 1,000 mg B3 and 200 mg B2, and that B3 alone at 1,000 mg/day was not as effective as in combination with vitamin B2 at 200 mg/day

Quote:

In patients with a normal gastrointestinal absorption of iodine but with a very defective iodine retention system, the absorbed iodine is quantitatively excreted in the urine with little or no retention. In these rare cases, the loading test will suggest whole body iodine sufficiency (90% or more excreted) but the serum inorganic iodide levels 24 hrs after the iodine load will remain low (less than 0.13 mg/L). The inefficient iodine retention mechanism could be due to either a defective cellular iodine transport system, or due to blockage of this iodine cellular transport by goitrogens that compete with iodide for the halide binding site of the symporter system. The defective iodine cellular transport mechanism could be due to genetic defects or oxidative damage to the halide binding site of the symporter
Bromide was the cause of one of them. Sounds like me who can only tolerate one drop of Lugol's per day. I take more than 3 grams of C though.

Quote:

She tolerated a daily average dose of 6.25 mg iodine well with increased energy. The iodine transport damage was corrected as least partially by administration of the antioxidant Vitamin C in a sustained released form at 3 gm/day for three months.

Elevated bromide levels were observed in urine and serum samples, twenty times the levels reported in the literature in normal subjects(8,9). Mild bromism may have been the cause of the oxidative damage to the iodine transport system and the side effects to orthoiodosupplementation. Chloride competes with bromide at the renal level and increases the renal clearance of bromide (10,11). Sodium chloride at 10 gm/day for one week resulted in marked increase in urine bromide levels, and a sharp drop in serum bromide.
Wow...

Quote:

Some patients require up to 2 years of orthoiodosupplementation to bring post loading urine bromide levels below 10 mg/24 hr,

Quote:

We are currently preparing a protocol for the evaluation of patients not responding to orthoiodosupplementation and with evidence of a defective whole body iodine retention mechanism: The results of the loading test showing 90% or greater excretion of the iodine load combined with baseline serum iodide levels below 10-6M (<0.13 mg/L). *The evaluation of such patients ideally should include antibody titer to the sodium iodide symporter*.
That means a test for Hashimoto's right? I"m clear on that at least.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
I'm also wondering if I should just start with iodine, THEN add in the rest of the supps one at a time. That way I'm sure any reactions I am having are due to the iodine rather than any of the other supps.

Oh, and a last question,







What is your source for getting all the supplements. I don't want to go to Whole Foods to get these, since they are crazy $$ there. Do you have any online sources?

Thanks!!!

Ami

Hey Ami,

First, Vitacost.com is where I get my stuff from. Super cheap, fast shipping and flat rate shipping!

Ok so I started with the multi, Nature's Way Siberian ginseng (2 capsules a day), iodine and cod liver oil... but I did add magnesium shortly after because of the headaches... its very important to take that too. In fact, if you were to just start out with everything I take now it'd cost about $24 a month per adult.. not bad considering that my life has improved drastically (read my story my cure in my sig).

Here's what I take each day:

*1 Multi* (I believe the brand is important and the one I've had success with is One 'N' Only)
*1 Cod liver oil
750mg of Magnesium
32.5mg of iodine* (I was experiencing some anxiety attacks a couple weeks ago and dropped my dose to try and figure out why I was having them, thought maybe I had reached sufficiency... realized what was happening, I was taking them at night because that's when I'm least nauseous, my body was trying to wind down but the vits were trying to wind up







oops!)
1 Chromium with Vanadium pill (source naturals)
1 selenium (futurebiotics)
3000mg vit c (NSI brand)
I've also added inositol but still nauseous so skipping that giant horse pill til nausea passes...

Hope this helps! Let me know if you have any other questions!


----------



## JaneS

RE: Kelp and Miss Pat the Whole Foods Link-Mama Extraordinare

I totally get you! Believe me I have been a longtime, 15 year, sushi freak. I cook with kombu and eat wakame salads and shake kelp. I had a hard time with Lugol's at first a year and half ago and then just depended on Coast of Maine high iodine kelp and then 1 drop Lugol's sporadically.

And here I am obviously having a problem if I can't even tolerate 12.5mg of purified iodine/iodide. And I DID NOT have any detox from seaweed that I could determine. At first I though that was a good thing, but my AM temps were still inconsistent so ultimately I wasn't getting enough iodine to feed my thyroid. And also why would I still be having this problem if I was full up on iodine from seaweeds? (And we eat a lot of wild seafood too.)

I don't know what to say. But the circumstances I find myself in I just want to go with the clinical evidence right now I guess. This bromide detox just makes me wonder where the heck it's coming from. My friend's swimming pool maybe? I know they use chlorine but maybe bromine too? I just hate feeling like crap, can I whine about it again?


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Yeah it doesn't feel like progress let me tell you. I've been chatting with my dietician who has done this herself and I'll probably be seeing the enviromental dr. she's worked with (he is also a DAN that's seen my DS in past). I feel weird going back to him myself! I don't feel like I should be doing this on my own and I definitely should be doing something. Time to stop focusing on DS or worrying about other family issues.

Melatonin never helped me believe it or not, but that reminds me I should up my Jarrow sublingual methyl B12, which did. My thinking is so foggy at times it's kinda scary, it's gotta be mercury right? I need some zeolite or modiflan! Man I knew not chelating was gonna bite me in butt at some point. I was having so much fun on my merry happy feeling good way though it was easy to ignore...







:

Which ascorbate do you use, link to the brand if you could? I have Nutribiotics sodium ascorbate but I gather you use something different for the flush?


See it's weird cause aside from the detox headache and occasional fatigue during the first month supping, my family and friends have not felt this from taking the supps I take... there must be something to it...


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Yeah it doesn't feel like progress let me tell you. I've been chatting with my dietician who has done this herself and I'll probably be seeing the enviromental dr. she's worked with (he is also a DAN that's seen my DS in past). I feel weird going back to him myself! I don't feel like I should be doing this on my own and I definitely should be doing something. Time to stop focusing on DS or worrying about other family issues.

Melatonin never helped me believe it or not, but that reminds me I should up my Jarrow sublingual methyl B12, which did. My thinking is so foggy at times it's kinda scary, it's gotta be mercury right? I need some zeolite or modiflan! Man I knew not chelating was gonna bite me in butt at some point. I was having so much fun on my merry happy feeling good way though it was easy to ignore...







:

Which ascorbate do you use, link to the brand if you could? I have Nutribiotics sodium ascorbate but I gather you use something different for the flush?

I have found it very hard to prioritize well between us all. I can't say I've done a great job, but we all seem to be seeing progress, except DH, and now I'm trying to fine-tune for him. It seems especially hard when your child seems more affected than you, because putting that aside even temporarily is just wrenching.

Foggy thinking sucks. It's so hard, and honestly, even last year when I was feeling better, that still was not impressive. You could consider actual thyroid support for a while, some of my fogginess was thyroid and until you can get the iodine thing sorted out, I think it's reasonable. But I'm glad to hear you've got a doctor to work with! And if you think you need professional support through this, go for it. There's a time for DIY and a time for help, I know I lean a lot on my HCP.

I remember some people didn't get help from melatonin, but they did with, I think 5-htp? I really should re-read the diagrams and understand that better. Out of curiosity, how much melatonin have you tried? I was taking a lot over the winter, but I never would've guessed, if I hadn't already been taking it, that I needed to go up to 8mg. But I'm guessing that's not your issue, it's just something that sometimes puzzles me in general.

For the flush, at first I just used Perque's vitamin C, I think it's high-quality but it's also somewhat pricey and the flavor is, well, not horrible but not great either, and the association of that flavor with induced diarrhea is tough.









Now I mix half Perque vitC with half Now sodium ascorbate. I don't think Now's SA is the best out there, but at the rate we go through the stuff, it's an economical choice.

This is the Perque vitC...
http://www.houseofnutrition.com/perq4.html

And Now SA is available everywhere.


----------



## stayo22

So, I ordered some liquid dulse and it says 4 drops = 225 mcg. I have been taking that for a week and thinking "wow, I feel better." But now I realize that is really only .255 mg which is nothing, right!!?? ha!

What is a good slow starting dose if my drops are 4 drops = 225mcg?

Thanks ladies!


----------



## aris99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
*Big reason NOT to choose seaweed for your iodine: BROMIDES. And arsenic.*

Yes, seaweeds can contain significant amounts of bromide. It is thought to be the cause of goiter in certain Japanese studied with very high iodine intake from seaweed who by rights shouldn't have goiter at all. I wonder if my past large consumption of seaweed are contributing to my very hard time I'm having with 1-2 drops of Lugol's. I have to say I'm regretting not studying enough... as you know I'm a whole foods kind of gal too!

(and I think seaweed does NOT contain iodide?)

I can't do 2 drops of Lugol's (12.5mg). I feel completely horrible even with salt flushes 3x day. And I think I'm getting a yeast infection which I haven't had in years! This could also be mercury detox causing yeast? I need to find out more. Thank goodness for Candex.

You probably know this as everyone seems to know more than me but I was just reading that mag supplementation is implicated in candida infections...

Do you have a link about seaweeds containg bromides? Everywhere I've read says that seaweeds counteract the affects of bromide...I am getting more and more confused...


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aris99* 
You probably know this as everyone seems to know more than me but I was just reading that mag supplementation is implicated in candida infections...

Do you have a link about seaweeds containg bromides? Everywhere I've read says that seaweeds counteract the affects of bromide...I am getting more and more confused...

Actually Iodine is used for treatment in candida and systemic yeast infections....

"Iodine appears to be the best remedy to eliminate systemic yeast infections."

"He had read that potassium iodide solution could be used to treat Candida infestation of the blood. So he put the patient on six to eight drops of Lugol's solution four times a day and soon the patient was again completely well."

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/candida.html


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Jane, I would love to hear more info about why NOT to choose organic kelp or dulse which has been tested free of heavy metals, instead for the iodine. Those absorb/bind with heavy metals in the large intestine, from my understanding; and help to excrete it, in addition to the whole food benefits AND iodine. Seems to 'kill two birds with one stone' as it were: iodine and helps with the (released/circulating) mercury/heavy metal stores (bromides too?). I'm not completely clear on the physiology of it. But, I'm just a whole foods gal.









Pat

Just what I was thinking. I have Maine Coast kelp, dulse, ect. flakes & wanted to take them. The back of the bottle has a blurb by Dr. Brownstein, so I was/am hoping that they're tested for heavy metals.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Just ordered Dr Brownstein's book.

I thought I'd read about him in the salt society's newsletter, but it was on the back of my kelp bottle.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Me too, his 2009 edition. The one I read before was his first one. This new ed. has info on children and detox I wanted to get.

Good to know, I'd like to order it as well.

I skimmed the last few pages, need more time to read....later. I wish these long, interesting threads could have a post in the beginning summing everything up!


----------



## aris99

Overthinking this as usual....brazil nuts for selenium? I have often wondered how well whole nuts actually get digested? I mean they may contain a good amt of selenium crushed up under laboratory conditions but it's my experience that even if you chew them as well as is possible they never quite get fully broken down iykwim....does brazil nut butter exist







?


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aris99* 
Overthinking this as usual....brazil nuts for selenium? I have often wondered how well whole nuts actually get digested? I mean they may contain a good amt of selenium crushed up under laboratory conditions but it's my experience that even if you chew them as well as is possible they never quite get fully broken down iykwim....does brazil nut butter exist







?

Not sure how well they digest, good question but here's brazil nut butter








http://www.sunfood.com/Categories/1/...d-butters.aspx


----------



## aris99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Not sure how well they digest, good question but here's brazil nut butter








http://www.sunfood.com/Categories/1/...d-butters.aspx

NUTS







:!!!!! I was hoping it didn't exist! Thanks!

OMG look what pumpkin seed butter can do for you!!!!


----------



## Metasequoia

Yep, that's why I grind up pumpkin seeds to use as flour in our muffins (we're GF). I also rely on Brazil nuts for selenium - 2/day for me & 1/day for the kiddos.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 

I remember some people didn't get help from melatonin, but they did with, I think 5-htp? I really should re-read the diagrams and understand that better. Out of curiosity, how much melatonin have you tried? I was taking a lot over the winter, but I never would've guessed, if I hadn't already been taking it, that I needed to go up to 8mg. But I'm guessing that's not your issue, it's just something that sometimes puzzles me in general.

I used this one, I think just 2 sprays so 3 mg?
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals...4-ml/1301?at=0

My issue was never fallling asleep if that makes a difference. I can go to sleep just fine, but I wake at 3 or 4 AM and not fall back asleep. Like buzzing anxiety but not really anxious, just really awake! Now that you mention it I think more vitamin C helped so the ox stress idea does make sense.

I tried 5 HTP too, and I thought it was helping but then I thought it didn't. Of course was going through extreme emotional issues at the time who knows what nutrients I was burning through. I should probably take some methyl folate, I haven't been as good a girl with chicken liver.

Thanks for the C rec, I can get Perque through our RD.


----------



## Anna06

:

thanks!!

subbbing


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aris99* 
You probably know this as everyone seems to know more than me but I was just reading that mag supplementation is implicated in candida infections...

Do you have a link about seaweeds containg bromides? Everywhere I've read says that seaweeds counteract the affects of bromide...I am getting more and more confused...

more magnesium causing candida?

Here are references for bromides in seaweed:

Quote:

*Seaweed also concentrates other halides such as bromide, which possess goitrogenic, carcinogenic and narcoleptic properties (1). Seawater is very poor in iodide and relatively rich in bromidewith 0.05 PPM iodide and 70 PPM bromide. There is 1400 times more bromide than iodide in seawater...*

Although seaweed has been the main source of iodine for the Japanese population, inorganic iodine/iodide in supplements (liquid or tablets) seems a much purer, safer and more accurate form for supplementation of this essential element than seaweed. It is more difficult to titrate the amount of seaweed needed to achieve whole body sufficiency for iodine than the amount of a pure standardized solid dose form of this essential element. It was not conclusively proven that iodine was the cause of the reported seaweed-induced goiter with normal thyroid functions 40 years ago in Hokkaido, Japan (15). This *seaweed-induced goiter* eventually disappeared (23). Suzuki et al (15) questioned whether seaweed itself was the cause of this goiter, since much larger amounts of iodide in pulmonary patients did not induce goiter. Suzuki et al commented: "Considering the paucity of reported cases of iodine goiter with the wide spread usage of iodine medication, we cannot exclude factors other than excessive intake of dietary iodine as a cause of the goiter." Also, residents in Tokyo, Japan, who excreted similar levels of iodide in their urine (around 20 mg/24h) did not experience goiter. *Contamination of seaweed with bromide is the most likely explanation, since bromide is a goitrogen* (1), and there is 1400 times more bromide than iodide in seawater (20). The presence of excess goitrogens in the diet would require greater amounts of ingested iodine to prevent the goitrogenic effect of these substances (2).
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-12/IOD_12.htm


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
Actually Iodine is used for treatment in candida and systemic yeast infections....

I guess I'm just a freak!








Iodine probably would have nuked it if I had taken larger doses but I don't think my detox pathways can handle whatever I'm getting rid off at the same time. So weird. I'm okay now, Candex and kefir are my friends.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Just what I was thinking. I have Maine Coast kelp, dulse, ect. flakes & wanted to take them. The back of the bottle has a blurb by Dr. Brownstein, so I was/am hoping that they're tested for heavy metals.

I thought I'd read about him in the salt society's newsletter, but it was on the back of my kelp bottle.









Good to know, I'd like to order it as well.

I skimmed the last few pages, need more time to read....later. I wish these long, interesting threads could have a post in the beginning summing everything up!

I tried to sum it all up but I get too lost in the trees! Tell me something that my first few posts are missing and I will edit.

The last I heard every seaweed that Brownstein tested was high in arsenic and that is why he doesn't recommend it, I don't know about bromides.

I have no idea why Coast of Maine is using his cites on their bottle then... will investigate...


----------



## aris99

JaneS said:


> more magnesium causing candida?
> 
> I read that on the link I got from Tanya yesterday....
> 
> http://george-eby-research.com/html/...n-anxiety.html
> 
> Quote: "Warning! Too much magnesium has been known to cause diarrhea for at least 100 years. Each magnesium ion will attract about 800 molecules of water, which is usually believed to be the cause of the diarrhea. However, too much magnesium exponentially stimulates the growth of Candida yeast cells in vitro, which was preventable by added calcium. Consequently, large doses of magnesium without calcium may stimulate intestinal Candida overgrowth in the human. Consequently, magnesium should be taken using several antifungal agents, and especially garlic with coconut oil. Also, Indole-3-Carbinol will greatly help in detoxifying the intestines and inducing immunity to Candida, thus reducing diarrhea and reducing magnesium wasting. These antifungals will also amplify the absorption of magnesium and greatly accelerate recovery but may increase toxicity of magnesium due to increased absorption. Consequently, when magnesium (without calcium) and antifungals are being used therapeutically, potential for overdose should be considered. "


----------



## JaneS

100 years!

Hmmmm. Eby certainly was right about mag. deficiency and depression connection but this is the first I've heard of candida. I have greatly increased my mag. recently but I've done that before w/o issue. I have only heard that having yeast problems means you cannot absorb your mag. not that it would encourage it! Wonder what Mark Sircus or Carolyn Dean would say, they are the mag. experts it seems.

Abraham says mag. is essential for high iodine support. Geez, I wish everyone would agree.







Maybe I will stick with just the transdermal mag. and stop taking it by mouth too (was only doing 200-400mg orally).


----------



## ChristSavesAll

In regards to candida and yeast infections...

Coconut oil also works wonders, so instead of using pharma meds you could try that.

"Coconut oil appears to be effective within days. With Candida take initially 4 tablespoons of coconut oil spread out during the day, and after improvement you may reduce this to 2 tablespoons for several more weeks. This seems to be effective against systemic as well as localised infestations, including those of the genitals. However, it is advisable to apply coconut oil topically as well."

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/candida.html


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## JTA Mom

Thank you so much for the details, Nichole!!

I'm having some issues with the iodine. The ones I keep finding seem to be all kelp based, which I've gathered is a no-no. What brand of iodine do you use?

Also, the selenium, chromium and vit c are to help detox, right? I feel like I'm starting to understand the bigger picture, but there are so many little details that confuse me.









Ami

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
Hey Ami,

First, Vitacost.com is where I get my stuff from. Super cheap, fast shipping and flat rate shipping!

Ok so I started with the multi, Nature's Way Siberian ginseng (2 capsules a day), iodine and cod liver oil... but I did add magnesium shortly after because of the headaches... its very important to take that too. In fact, if you were to just start out with everything I take now it'd cost about $24 a month per adult.. not bad considering that my life has improved drastically (read my story my cure in my sig).

Here's what I take each day:

*1 Multi* (I believe the brand is important and the one I've had success with is One 'N' Only)
*1 Cod liver oil
750mg of Magnesium
32.5mg of iodine* (I was experiencing some anxiety attacks a couple weeks ago and dropped my dose to try and figure out why I was having them, thought maybe I had reached sufficiency... realized what was happening, I was taking them at night because that's when I'm least nauseous, my body was trying to wind down but the vits were trying to wind up







oops!)
1 Chromium with Vanadium pill (source naturals)
1 selenium (futurebiotics)
3000mg vit c (NSI brand)
I've also added inositol but still nauseous so skipping that giant horse pill til nausea passes...

Hope this helps! Let me know if you have any other questions!


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
A brand of cod liver oil. *Fermented* Blue Ice is currently the only brand of CLO that doesn't use synthetic vitamins. (AFAIK)

No, we use Radiant Life which is the natural A and D only as well.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 







: I appreciate it! Off to look now. I haven't seen it offered in 50 mg pills. That's good info to have!

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Iodoral.htm


----------



## WuWei

Quote:

In regards to candida and yeast infections...

*Caution killing-off candida*, if one has _or had_ mercury fillings in their teeth. It releases mercury into blood circulation to be redeposited in organs, brain and breastmilk. Taking Vit C, selenium, clay, (zeolite?) could help to bind the mercury for excretion.

Pat


----------



## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
*Caution killing-off candida*, if one has _or had_ mercury fillings in their teeth. It releases mercury into blood circulation to be redeposited in organs, brain and breastmilk. Taking Vit C, selenium, clay, (zeolite?) could help to bind the mercury for excretion.

Pat

This.


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## JTA Mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
*Caution killing-off candida*, if one has _or had_ mercury fillings in their teeth. It releases mercury into blood circulation to be redeposited in organs, brain and breastmilk. Taking Vit C, selenium, clay, (zeolite?) could help to bind the mercury for excretion.

Pat

Ok, so how much of those other supplements do I need to take to have 'sufficient' binding?

Honestly, I don't think I'm ready to take 15 different supplements to get 'better'. I mean, seriously, I 'need' to take iodine, cod liver oil, magnesium, a multi, vit c, selenium AND clay???? And those last three are to counteract the magnesium & iodine side effects (candida die off)? How in the world is this any better than pharmaceuticals??? I'm not a pill popper. The only thing I take religiously is a round of antibiotics because I HAVE to. It just seems really unnatural to me to have to take ALL those supplements. If I need so much support for iodine, then maybe it's not a good thing to take, kwim?

Ami


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## Panserbjorne

any reputable source that talks about iodine also talks about the other supplements as well. It is important to support your body in detoxification. Iodine is essential and quite natural. What is NOT natural is what we have done to our bodies. It takes time and effort to undo damage.

It's better than pharmaceuticals because all of these things are essential to life. All of these things work to increase vitality. All of these things work to nourish your body and create optimal health.

This isn't (IMO) a rest of your life regimen. This is restoration.


----------



## JaneS

Believe me I understand the frustration, however...

Pharmaceuticals damage your health, nutrition can heal you... simple as that.

Pharmaceuticals only make you think you are getting better but you are not fixing anything in your body. Your disease state only continues.

It is "unnatural" because living in a toxic world, consuming substandard nutrient-deficient food for all of our life, is unnatural and leads to disease.

What are you taking antibx for?


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## JTA Mom

I'm not taking antibiotics. I'm not taking pharmaceuticals. It just feels overwhelming to have to take soooo many pills. It reminds me of dh's grandparents who are on crazy amounts of pharmaceuticals, where some of them are there to just counteract the side effects of others.

I understand that soil quality isn't great, but something feels wrong about taking all these refined supplements, some of which are just to counteract the side effects of others. It's one thing to take cod liver oil and Lugols, quite another to say that now I need to add selenium, clay and magnesium and (insert other supplement) to stay healthy while taking iodine. Not to mention expensive. That, and I'm not finding any sites that are saying much beyond 'take iodine, vit c, magnesium and vit b.' Where is all this info coming from?

There's even less info on detoxing. I'm not looking to detox, I'm looking to increase my thyroid function. I've been diagnosed with adrenal failure, which, through study, I've found is more a function of thyroid insufficiency. If detoxing is a side effect, ok. But I don't want to poison my bf baby either. I'm doing child-led weaning, so I'm not going to wean him just to do this. On the other hand, I don't want to overload him on metals. I know I have mercury in my system (hello 13 amalgam fillings), I just don't want to do anything to endanger ds. Now I'm being told that if I supplement with iodine & magnesium, I'm going to have massive detox AND that I need to take a bunch more supplements that may bind with it. I'm not finding the info elsewhere about this, and it's extremely frustrating.

How about, from now on, when things like detoxing or candida die-off or whatever else is brought up, links are added so we can get more specific info? It's easy to say take 'these' things to counteract detox, quite another to find out reasoning, dosages, etc.

Ami


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Ami, I can totally hear your frustration. And believe me, there are many days (and I sure there still will be more) when I hate taking everything I take. But, I try to look at it this way: everything I am taking is to heal my body and nourish it deeply. Honestly, nothing I am taking is from the view-point of detoxing, though I know some of what I am taking will cause detoxing and some of what I am taking will help mop up the detoxing.

Though we eat fairly well (gluten free, food additive free, whole foods, mostly from scratch and rarely eat out), I know we are still not getting what we need from our food. Plus, I have generations of healing to do (as I am guessing most everyone on this thread, plus the adrenal thread, plus the allergy thread). My mom was/is hypothyroid. Her mom was/is hypothyroid. They also both have symptoms of adrenal fatigue. We have family history of cavities. (Fortunately, I *only* had two; one is now a root canal/crown.







) We have generations of undernourishment to correct. My boys have generations upon their bodies to correct. This is a long-term healing rather than a quick, pharmaceutical symptom-based bandaid.

We take a multi to get a broad range of vitamins/minerals. We take a B-complex, which is very important for the nervous system, plus well-functioning pathways. We take vitamin C for all it's benefits. We take iodine to correct a long-term deficiency. (Remember, generations of deficiencies here.) We take magnesium because of it's numerous functions in the body. We eat a Brazil nut a day to help up our selenium - another very important nutrient. We take MSM for the sulfate. Dh and I both have issues with connective tissues (torn meniscuses). The sulfate not only nourishes the connective tissues, but it too is important for well functioning pathways. We take vitamin D to help correct long term deficiency. We also take cod liver oil for the A & D, fish oil (to maximize our intake of omega 3's to reduce inflammation and also nourish our nerves).

I am also still nursing my 3 year old. I know I am probably mobilizing something as I take all this. But I also know he is getting benefit from everything I am taking as well. (We also have the boys on a high-quality children's to help them correct their deficiencies while still young - Brainchild Nutritionals.) Maybe if you can see what you are taking as beneficial for you, instead of just seeing as needing X to heal something and then Y and Z just to help detox from X, it might be easier. Every nutrient you are taking is important in and of itself. Yes, some also have the benefit of helping you detox. But, ultimately, what you are doing is nourishing your body deeply. And you need each of those different nutrients to do that. We, as a people, are severely deficient in so many key nutrients. Why do you think people pop so many pills? They are trying to cover up symptoms caused by severe deficiencies. If they were to take as many pills, but instead make them high quality nutrients, then they could heal. That is what you are doing. That is what we are all doing. We are healing.

There are definintely up days and down days. There are times I don't want anything to do with anything I take. Last night I consciously went to bed without taking my cod liver oil or fish oil. I just didn't want to put one more thing in me at the time. And tonight, I'll make sure I take it. But, ultimately, everything is for a purpose, and that purpose is to break the cycle of deficiency and illness and bring deep healing.


----------



## Panserbjorne

Okay, I guess *I'm* a little confused because I feel like the links you are asking for have been provided.







I'm sorry it feels overwhelming to you, I know it can be hard to start learning about this stuff.

Here's one citation: http://drshevin.com/patient_educatio...deficiency.php
"It is also worth noting that no nutritional factor works in isolation. Other nutritional factors which strongly influence thyroid function and iodine biochemistry include Selenium, Magnesium, Iron, Vitamin A, Niacin (Vitamin B-3), and Riboflavin (vitamin B-2). This list should not be considered to be complete, however."
He also mentions vitamin C and in other places talks about D too. The A and D can be taken in cod liver oil, assuming you have a brand that retains the natural vitamins.

There are plenty of others that Nichole and Jane linked to as well.

I think it's worth mentioning that you aren't taking a bunch of pills to counter the affects of iodine. That's not correct. You are taking supplements to allow the body to use it properly. IF you take calcium without magnesium you could end up with muscle cramps, depression, migraines, etc. It is important to have magnesium and potassium to balance the calcium. This is the same thing. Also, selenium provides the cofactors for thyroid hormone synthesis. If you thyroid isn't functioning this is how you help it. It will also, as a bonus, help with detox.

I will also point out that what Pat posted about candida was in response to a previous post about candida die off. This has been discussed, with links quite a bit elsewhere on the board. When you start with iodine supplementation there generally is a die off and Jane did post the link to the salt flush to deal with it. The point of most of this (IMO) is simply if you start feeling crappy there are reasons to consider. The release of mercury (if it happens) won't be noticable to many people. But to those it is, it's nice to understand why and know there are things you can do.

Again, the detox portion doesnt' last forever and we are talking about more like a month of two of support in many cases.

I will let the three link queens (Pat, Jane and Nichole) swoop in to add more!







I learned much of this in school and have other things on my mind now-I dont' have all of them at my fingertips.


----------



## babygrace

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
*Caution killing-off candida*, if one has _or had_ mercury fillings in their teeth. It releases mercury into blood circulation to be redeposited in organs, brain and breastmilk. Taking Vit C, selenium, clay, (zeolite?) could help to bind the mercury for excretion.
Pat

is candida the agent, then, that transports mercury from site of origin to various other parts of the body? just trying to understand the mechanism involved here. thanks!


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## dannic

Wow, what a great thread (and so timely, too!) Def. subbing!


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## JTA Mom

MyLittleWonders & Panserbjorne, thank you for your views. It is much more helpful to view it from a support aspect rather than the deductive view I was using. I just am very anxious about detoxing all these nasty things to ds. There's autism on dh's side of the family, so the thought of suddenly loading mercury into my breastmilk just has me scared.







:

I believe in generational deficiencies. I know there is some calcium/magnesium issues in my family, almost all of us have cavity issues & really weak teeth. There's also thalassemia in my family somewhere (Greek background). I have an incredibly mild form of it, but due to it I can't be a vegetarian and need really easy to access forms of iron regularly (so lots of red meat like lamb, & dark meats of poultry, etc). Ds is/was? deficient in iron. I think he may have inherited that condition too. So far he's been eating a lot of nutrient dense foods naturally (I think I had the only 1 yr old whose fave veggie was asparagus, lol). I'm just worried about 'overloading' his system.

On the iodine links, there's a ton of them. My frustration was when the candida die-off was mentioned as letting loose a lot of mercury, that the suggestions to take care of it where mentioned, but no link given. Maybe I'm not using Google well, because when I googled magnesium & candida die-off I didn't find any protocols.

Ami


----------



## lactationmom

Do any of you experts know if I can do all the iodine supplementation (I ordered iodine, selenium, magnesium and siberian ginseng...already have vit c and calcium) while breastfeeding? I have a 2 year old I don't plan on weaning anytime soon but I also have a mouthfull of metal fillings (thank you military upbringing!) that are not removed yet (have to wean toddler first).

Love this thread, it is confusing at first, I have read, re-read and re-read it over and over. It really makes sense overall. I am going to tell everyone I know about it, I think everyone needs this information!

Plus, I did some serious searching on prices and got great deals at vitaminshoppe.com and amazon.com. I got the iodine book recommended here somewhere on half.com for only $14!!! I ordered it last night and it shipped today.








:


----------



## MyLittleWonders

I'm curious how much iodine can be taken at once? (Basically is there an upper limit of what the body will absorb/utilize at one time?) Right now I am only taking two Iodoral a day (one in the morning and one at night), but plan on increasing and was hoping that I could take 2 at one time without wasting any of it. (I do okay if I only have to remember to take things twice a day, but if I have to try and fit things in the middle, I start missing doses.)


----------



## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
MyLittleWonders & Panserbjorne, thank you for your views. It is much more helpful to view it from a support aspect rather than the deductive view I was using. I just am very anxious about detoxing all these nasty things to ds. There's autism on dh's side of the family, so the thought of suddenly loading mercury into my breastmilk just has me scared.







:

My frustration was when the candida die-off was mentioned as letting loose a lot of mercury, that the suggestions to take care of it where mentioned, but no link given.
Ami

I'm glad it helped.







I also understand your concern. However I will also say (and I'm certain others will chime in) that passing the iodine along with what you are detoxing should help your ds detox in his own right. My kids all have diagnosed metal issues which are pretty extreme, as do I. I still chose after much research to supplement iodine in high doses while nursing an infant and a toddler. I know you aren't me, but I just wanted to let you know that from what I read I felt it was the right thing to do.

The autism in the family means that you should be vigilant (IMO) about detox pathways. Your ds may needs you to have that additional support.

And to another poster: candida and mercury have a symbiotic relationship. Mercury binds to the biotin receptor sites which allows candida to thrive (which it will do in the absence of biotin.) When you kill off candida (which has sequestered mercury for it's survival) it releases it into the bloodstream/tissues/organs.


----------



## treemom2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Actually Abraham recommends a month on supplements, THEN start iodine.

*Magnesium is very important* as an antioxidant on iodine supplementation. Abraham says any problems people have with iodine they are on a too high amount of calcium (he says 2000-3000 milligrams per day). He recommends 1200mg. per day. This should be spread out, it's a pretty high dose and might cause diarrhea.

I like www.IHerb.com for supplements myself, been ordering monthly for years and never been disappointed.

New customers can get $5 off with code: BOS439.

I do like Whole Foods for trying anything new though b/c their return policy is so easy.

Do you order your iodine supplement from here? If so, which one?


----------



## so_fetch

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
*We have iodine receptors all over our body.*
The mineral iodine is an essential one. Essential for the health of many more organs and hormones and bodily processes than just the thyroid. We have receptors for iodine not just on the thyroid but also: the breast, uterus, prostate, skin, pancreas, saliva glands, stomach, intestines, choroid plexus (brain) and eye.

Iodine is required by every single cell in the body. It is connected to the manufacture of every hormone in the body including estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, insulin, aldosterone, etc. So it starts to make sense that deficiency can lead to so many different disorders other than the more commonly known goiter.

I just joined so forgive me for responding for the first post on such a very long thread. This statement confuses me though. I had thyroid cancer and as part of my treatment I received a dose of radioactive iodine. This was meant to kill off any remaining thyroid cells (I had already had my thyroid surgically removed). How then, if iodine is used by organs of the body besides the thyroid, would this treatment make sense? Can someone please explain?


----------



## aris99

I've had stomach ache for most of the day most likely from eating sunflower seed butter....I just took 2 iodorals, about 400mg mag and 1/2 cup of goodbelly (AKA belly button by my 3yo) (has an amt of selenium and probiotics) and I am almost 100% better....which one did that?!


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## lactationmom

Code *JAM268* can also get you $5 off your order at www.iherb.com (for new customers-once you become a regular customer iherb will give you a code you can share for $5 off and if someone uses it then you will get a small percentage, like 1%).)

I love iherb.com, they have fantastic prices and free shipping and if you order a lot, even more of a discount. They even have TONS of shampoos, body care, baby care, etc and it's all organic/natural and the best brands. You can practically buy everything but groceries there.







:


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## Theloose

I'm curious. So the Japanese eating a ton of sea veggies is what's always sited as proof that lots of iodine is 'normal' and healthy, yeah? And we're saying that since we have such longstanding deficiencies, we need a more purified form to counteract that. Because lots of us are bromine toxic, and that bromine competes with iodine. So we're cautioned against using kelp as a source of iodine because it has so much bromine in it as well.

Here's my question: once the deficiency is corrected and we're no longer bromine toxic, what makes us think that we need a full 12.5mg (or whatever) iodine? Because at that point, we're not using it theraputically any more, right? And sure, kelp has that much, but it also has lots of bromine, and the bromine competes with iodine. What makes us think the Japanese are actually getting that much useable iodine from diet?

Can you see the circle I'm stuck in? Are there other major food sources of iodine that are not also significant sources of bromine?


----------



## TopazBlueMama

hmm..good point whoMe


----------



## ChristSavesAll

They tested the amount that the japanese excrete through urine... I'm NAK so I can't put much but wanted to pop in... also I found some info, I'll have to see if I can find the link that says bf Japanese babies get around 20mg iodine from mommas milk... be back later...

Oh btw they've been getting iodine since before birth, there iodine stores have been passed down through the generations. This is my theory, that there was a lesser amount of bromide previously than there is now, as we have contributed to so much pollution in the water... So the Japanese maintain their sufficiency because they have always had high amounts of iodine that their bodies are able to quickly and efficiently excrete the bromide before it settles... hope that makes sense.. will see what I can find to back it up...


----------



## ChristSavesAll

For those who want a summation of iodine supplementation, you might want to check this out...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/1959949/IO...Healthproblems


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## dannic

Okay, quick question--which is better, the lugol's or the iodine pill (forgive me, I just went blank as to the name)








Or is it that one is prescription and the other OTC? Wanting to discuss this with my ND in a couple weeks...thanks!


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
They tested the amount that the japanese excrete through urine... I'm NAK so I can't put much but wanted to pop in... also I found some info, I'll have to see if I can find the link that says bf Japanese babies get around 20mg iodine from mommas milk... be back later...

Oh btw they've been getting iodine since before birth, there iodine stores have been passed down through the generations. This is my theory, that there was a lesser amount of bromide previously than there is now, as we have contributed to so much pollution in the water... So the Japanese maintain their sufficiency because they have always had high amounts of iodine that their bodies are able to quickly and efficiently excrete the bromide before it settles... hope that makes sense.. will see what I can find to back it up...

But what I'm wondering is if the bromine in the seaweed doesn't buffer the iodine somehow, so even if they're absorbing it and excreting it, if the bromine is interfering, wouldn't that need to be taken into account when translating it into a dose of a purified supplement?


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
Okay, quick question--which is better, the lugol's or the iodine pill (forgive me, I just went blank as to the name)








Or is it that one is prescription and the other OTC? Wanting to discuss this with my ND in a couple weeks...thanks!









I may be totally off, but from what I remember reading, Lugol's is more pure than the Iodoral (pills), but the pills are easier to take. Also, from what I understand, you have to check the dilution of Lugol's to see how many drops equal one Iodoral (one Iodoral is 12.5 mg). So, maybe ultimately it depends on where you can find either and how you would rather get your iodine.







We take Iodoral because it's easy, though I might call our local compounding pharmacy and see if they have/can get me Lugol's, depending on the dilution/strength. Oh, and I've heard Lugol's isn't the best tasting, if that might be an issue for you. But, I know that if/when I start dosing my boys, I will probably go with Lugol's (or Iosol - which I guess is also liquid iodine, but at a smaller dosage per drop than Lugol's). Clear as mud?









Here's a listing for Lugol's It seems like one drop of the 5% solution is 2.5 mg. So, for me to get the 25 mg that I'm taking in the form of Iodoral, I'd need 10 drops of Lugol's.
Here is a listing for Iodoral - 180 tablets, 12.5 mg each.


----------



## dannic

Thanks, MLW! I'd love the caps, but I'd probly get the drops for ease of use in DC.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
Thanks, MLW! I'd love the caps, but I'd probly get the drops for ease of use in DC.

One way to make the tablets work for kids is to put them in a blender or coffee grinder. I put them in a coffee grinder with our mineral supplement, but I've heard of people putting them in with smoothies, just make sure whatever grinding machine you have can pulverize them.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
But what I'm wondering is if the bromine in the seaweed doesn't buffer the iodine somehow, so even if they're absorbing it and excreting it, if the bromine is interfering, wouldn't that need to be taken into account when translating it into a dose of a purified supplement?

What I'm wondering is if we are basing the "benefits" of iodine on the Japanese consumption of kelp (despite the bromine), "we" are dissing kelp as an equivalent benefit, determining we must "make" a purer form of something that is working naturally (and sell it to you).







Sounds like the same logic of big pharma, only alternative $upplement$. I believe that "Science" looses the big picture when trying to isolate the "one thing" which is perceived to be the "benefit". Although, the "one thing" DOES NOT EXIST isolated from the whole.

Antibiotics, probiotics, antifungals, minerals, vitamins, nutrients, amino acids, phytochemicals, etc. all come from plants and whole foods (spices, herbs) already. *What denaturing, destruction and damage is *caused* by the processing and "creation" of the isolated parts?* We've learned that processing of fats causes transfats. We've learned that antibotics damage the beneficial bacteria. We've learned that microwaves denature food. We've learned that heat processing damages nutrients. We've learned that vaccines, birthing interventions, circumcision... all intervene in unnatural ways. We've learned that the body compensates by creating inflammation, auto-immune responses, hormonal changes, altered detoxification when natural processes are ignored, "supplemented", and replaced with modern (experimental) processes "for your own good".

I can't get there about a pharmaceutical-lab-created-concentrated-liquid or pill-formed-isolation-of-iodine *FROM kelp*, no less.









I understand the argument that we have this "deficit" and "lack". I don't believe in the deficit pathology process. I believe the body can heal with whole foods, not chemical man-made 'improvements' of nature. YMMV Plenty of companies want folks to buy the new improved supplement. I'm not saying that Jane, CSA or PB are "wrong".







: I'm saying that doesn't fit my world view. Each can choose his own belief system.

I don't believe there is _*One*_ _Cause_/_*One* Cure_. That seems to be a westernized perspective since all of the aspects of health are intertwined (I believe).

As I wrote about vaccines, years ago:

Quote:

You aren't going to find THE "Right" answer. There is only what you feel is right for you and your family. People believe in different things in which to trust, or to keep them from fear. The journey to discovering what motivates you and upon what premises you make your decisions is an arduous one. Personally, I have 18 years of critical care experience, and I understand how *unscientific* medical practice and medical science is. True medical care is an Art, as much, if not more than a Science. I have seen so, so many "best practice protocols" subsequently disavowed as having some (previously unknown) danger, AFTER patients have utilized (and suffered from) them. We, the medical people, did *to* people, with all good intentions and full faith in the system of Science. However, science really is quite blind in its research; you can only learn what you are seeking to find. *The myopia of separating the mind/body/spirit is a huge aspect of the limitations of medicine.*

And we have the System of Medicine, embodied by the (fiscal) monopoly of the AMA. I can only say that if you go to a surgeon, he will use the tools available to him: surgery. If you go to a internist, he will use the tools available to him: pills. If you go to a psychologist: a DSM-whatever diagnosis is utilized. They can only utilize what they know and what they are taught. Unfortunately, what is *taught* isn't necessarily current with what is known outside of their specialty. There is such a specialization in *parts* of the body that there is no *whole* patient. This isn't a system of *health*, but of illness, disease, and deficit focused care.

So, we, medical people, have developed means of dealing with discrete illness and disease, rather than focusing on maximizing the *health* of the whole person. Because we can, because there is a market for 'fixing' a problem, because it is quicker, easier, because if it doesn't work the patient just comes back, and comes back, and comes back. A system that self-perpetuates is not working to eliminate the need for itself.

There are no sure bets in life. But, you make your best guess based upon what you choose to believe in.

Instead of an issue of *fear*, I made the decision based upon *Trust*. I trust and revere our amazing bodies to address diseases which are acquired naturally, more than I trust our medical system (or pharmaceutical company) to create a "solution" which is appropriate and safe for every body. I was a critical care nurse for too many years not to be aware of the fallibility of our medical system. I trust our body to be healthy!
One of the beautiful opportunities of life, is self-examination of our priorities, premises, and belief systems. Health choices are an enlightening source of self-discovery, in my experience. We all have a choice of where we place our trust, everything will unfold from there.

Pat


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## Panserbjorne

No, I agree with you Pat. I said farther back in the thread that once the deficiency is corrected food sources are acceptable (to me.) I do think that as a result of all the bromides we have artificially introduced along with the iodine we have taken away that many people are exhibiting subclinical deficiencies that border on pathological. That is where I'm saying, if you are barely functioning and miserable (anger, depression, painful cramping, debilitating PMS etc.) then supplementation is a good idea. ESPECIALLY if your thyroid is in trouble and you are nursing where the babe is depending on your stores.

I don't personally buy into the idea that food sources are unacceptable due to the bromine content (not saying hte reasearch isn't out there, it is.) I just think that you can't take the snapshot and measure this only from a scientific standpoint. I think that leaves way too much out.

I think there should be awareness of iodine for certain! However I think we also always need to be careful to see everything in the context of the whole. Health isn't solely about nutrition and for me focusing on one deficiency after another is not a way to attain health. For me focusing on enjoying life, eating wonderful food, being in nature and connecting with other people (which actually changes your biochemistry and the way you access and utilize nutrients) is of the highest importance.

So, like with magnesium where I don't personally get enough from my diet and notice when I don't supplement, I do use iodine. However I do not plan to be using it forever. I have weaned down and plan to switch over to a food source in the (relative) near future.

So, long story short we have stripped our bodies and environments. I do feel that there are times we need to correct some significant imbalances but we shouldn't need to rely on supplements for life.


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## aris99

For those of us who can't afford to do testing can you give us an idea of how long we should stay on elevated levels of iodine? Can you tell me which supplements you plan to stay on long term (like mag) and which ones you will wean down ? I was thinking of taking 4 iodoral for 3 mos and then going down to 1 a day for maintenance...does this sound ok? I am taking iodine, cal/mag, inositol, tryptophan, taurine, vit c, a multivit and probably other stuff that I can't remember....I guess my question is...in the absence of testing how do you know when to cut back and start doing low level maintenance?

Also, if someone who had a triple bypass heart operation a yr ago wanted to supplement w/iodine and cal/mag...is this ok? Should they be taking lower levels of everything? Is there a link for people who have been thru heart surgery?

Thanks so much to everyone...I am learning so much!


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## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aris99* 
I guess my question is...in the absence of testing how do you know when to cut back and start doing low level maintenance?

After you begin supplementing your feeling of what is "normal" changes... for example, prior to supplementing all the symptoms I had, the crummy way I felt, that was all "normal" to me, Sadly I thought I was healthy. After supplementing that changed, I began to feel differently and my understanding of healthy and normal for myself changed.

I'm not testing so in the absence of that I am focusing on how I feel, if something changes and is different bad then I know to re-evaluate the amount of something I'm taking. New symptoms would direct me in knowing what may be causing the change and adjusting supplements amounts and waiting for things to get back to normal is basically what I'll be doing.

Hope that makes sense... I'm curious to know what other people are planning on doing.

Oh and btw I've been taking 32.5mg for 6 months now.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I'm curious. So the Japanese eating a ton of sea veggies is what's always sited as proof that lots of iodine is 'normal' and healthy, yeah? And we're saying that since we have such longstanding deficiencies, we need a more purified form to counteract that. Because lots of us are bromine toxic, and that bromine competes with iodine. So we're cautioned against using kelp as a source of iodine because it has so much bromine in it as well.

Here's my question: once the deficiency is corrected and we're no longer bromine toxic, what makes us think that we need a full 12.5mg (or whatever) iodine? Because at that point, we're not using it theraputically any more, right? And sure, kelp has that much, but it also has lots of bromine, and the bromine competes with iodine. What makes us think the Japanese are actually getting that much useable iodine from diet?

Can you see the circle I'm stuck in? Are there other major food sources of iodine that are not also significant sources of bromine?

I would recommend spending more time reading at www.Optimox.com. Dr. Abraham goes into why he thinks this is a recommended daily dose for women. Whereas both the thyroid and the breasts need most of it, with about 2mg for rest of body functioning.

If you are bromide toxic, you will need more than 12.5 per day to detox. Or more for daily dosage if you have large breasts or are overweight.

I think they calculated the coastal Japanese amounts of iodine in their diet to get to approx. 13.8mg per day as an amount that also correlated with low breast cancer and no thyroid problems.

No other major food sources AFAIK, in such large amount.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Here's a listing for Lugol's It seems like one drop of the 5% solution is 2.5 mg. So, for me to get the 25 mg that I'm taking in the form of Iodoral, I'd need 10 drops of Lugol's.
Here is a listing for Iodoral - 180 tablets, 12.5 mg each.


Iosol is 1.83mg per drop both iodine and iodide, I have some.

"Standard" Lugol's is 6.25mg per drop and is usually called "5%" b/c it is 5% iodine and 10% potassium iodide... where are you getting 2.5mg?

this IS confusing!









For a PP, neither Iodoral or Lugol's is by px, but you have to look around for them. It might help certain compounding pharmacies to have a px.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I'm curious how much iodine can be taken at once? (Basically is there an upper limit of what the body will absorb/utilize at one time?) Right now I am only taking two Iodoral a day (one in the morning and one at night), but plan on increasing and was hoping that I could take 2 at one time without wasting any of it. (I do okay if I only have to remember to take things twice a day, but if I have to try and fit things in the middle, I start missing doses.)

Upper limit that they would use, according to The Iodine Project researchers, to restock body or restore in case of serious disease seems to be 100mg. You mean can you take all one time in AM? Yes, they do say this is fine. But I think technically it's better to split doses, it wouldn't be better if you forget. Most people take earlier in day b/c it can give you a rush of energy.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treemom2* 
Do you order your iodine supplement from here? If so, which one?

Yes, I have ordered Iosol from IHerb.com, it is very inexpensive but also not very potent. I'm still working up to larger doses though so it's perfect for me! I can definitely tell it is working, I get a rush of warmth.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *so_fetch* 
I just joined so forgive me for responding for the first post on such a very long thread. This statement confuses me though. I had thyroid cancer and as part of my treatment I received a dose of radioactive iodine. This was meant to kill off any remaining thyroid cells (I had already had my thyroid surgically removed). How then, if iodine is used by organs of the body besides the thyroid, would this treatment make sense? Can someone please explain?

What do you mean? If you started taking iodine supplements, even though your thyroid has been killed off, would iodine help the rest of your body? *Absolutely.*

Stephanie of www.naturalthyroidchoices.com might be the best person to help you, she had an RAI treatment too I believe but still has some thyroid function left.

There is evidence that natural iodine rather than radioactive can treat thyroid cancer without the extreme damage.


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## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
What do you mean? If you started taking iodine supplements, even though your thyroid has been killed off, would iodine help the rest of your body? *Absolutely.*

Stephanie of www.naturalthyroidchoices.com might be the best person to help you, she had an RAI treatment too I believe but still has some thyroid function left.

There is evidence that natural iodine rather than radioactive can treat thyroid cancer without the extreme damage.

My mom had her thyroid removed b/c it had a tumor (turned out to be benign). Would she benefit from Iodine?


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## so_fetch

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
What do you mean? If you started taking iodine supplements, even though your thyroid has been killed off, would iodine help the rest of your body? *Absolutely.*

Stephanie of www.naturalthyroidchoices.com might be the best person to help you, she had an RAI treatment too I believe but still has some thyroid function left.

There is evidence that natural iodine rather than radioactive can treat thyroid cancer without the extreme damage.

What I meant was that I don't understand how the radioactive iodine could have killed my thyroid cells but not my other cells- given that they all have iodine receptors.

As for natural iodine treating thyroid cancer, I also don't understand that. The whole point of the RAI treatment, as I understood it, was that it would be absorbed by all my thyroid cells, including those that had become cancerous, and kill them. This meant that even if the cancer had spread into lymph nodes/other parts of the body, because they originated in the thyroid they would still uptake iodine and be killed. I don't fully understand what normal iodine would do then, wouldn't it just stimulate the thyroid cells (cancerous and non) to continue growing?

I will definitely check out that website though, thank you.


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## Panserbjorne

The cases I have read, noone was ever given iodine if they had thyroid cancer. In fact there are doctors that demand an ultrasound if a person is shown to be seriously deficient before starting supplementation to rule out thyroid cancer. If anything is found supplementation is not started.


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## JaneS

: This information just blows me away!







:

*Iodine, Fluoride and Your Bones/Teeth:*

Fluoride, being of the safe family as iodine, can also bind to ALL iodine receptors in the body, including the thyroid, breasts, ovaries, prostate, brain, eye, salivary glands, stomach, intestines and skin. It blocks the function of iodine and can impede organ function... which apparently now includes teeth and bones!

Quote:

"Some countries are fluoridating their water supply for the theoretical benefits of fluoride helping to prevent cavities. What is happening is the ingested fluoride takes the place of iodine that should be there in the teeth, especially growing teeth. Iodine and thyroid for example have complete control of tooth growth along with some help from growth hormone. (6-8) _*It is only because our iodine intake has been decreasing over the years that fluoride has been mistakenly added to our water with the idea of helping children's teeth. It would have made more scientific sense to have added more iodine."*_

"Fluoride has also been used against osteoporosis with beneficial results. This again is just replacing what iodine should be doing. The minor problems of osteopenia (minor loss of calcium) seen in some patients put on thyroid is related to the fact that the same patients are low in iodine. The low iodine causes the hypothyroidism and also the inappropriate short term bone response. If iodine is given with the thyroid hormone this abnormal response can be avoided. So _*persons taking adequate daily iodine will unlikely to ever develop osteoporosis*_."

"Radioactive iodine injected into patients shows a full outline of the bones on a total body scan. This means one of the places iodine goes to immediately is bones. Thyroid hormone makes bones grow, mature and remodel, when necessary. _*Together thyroid hormone, iodine and growth hormone maintain a healthy bone structure.*_ As vertebrates (animals with backbones) are the only animals with thyroid glands it makes sense that iodine and thyroid control bone structure and function."

-David M. Derry MD
http://www.iodine4health.com/special...y_halogens.htm
*Fluoridation: The Fraud of the Century*
http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxin...tionfraud.html

*Fluoride: Worse than We Thought*
http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/fluoride.html

*Fluoride & the Pineal Gland: Study Published in Caries Research*
http://www.fluoridealert.org/ifin-269.htm

Quote:

When Luke found out that the pineal gland - a little gland in the center of the brain, responsible for a very large range of regulating activities (it produces serotonin and melatonin) -was also a calcifying tissue, like the teeth and the bones, she hypothesized it would concentrate fluoride to very high levels. The gland is not protected by the blood brain barrier and has a very high perfusion rate of blood, second only to the kidney...

She found that melatonin production... was lower in the animals treated with high fluoride levels compared with those treated with low levels...

Significance? Huge. Melatonin is reponsible for regulating all kinds of activities and there is a vast amount of work investigating its possible roles in aging, cancer and many other life processes. The one activity that Luke is particularly interested in is the onset of puberty. The highest levels of melatonin ( produced only at night) is generated in young children. It is thought that it is the fall of these melatonin levels which acts like a biological clock and triggers the onset of puberty. In her gerbil study she found that the high fluoride treated animals were reaching puberty earlier than the low fluoride ones.
*Fluoride: A Statement of Concern*
by Paul Connett, PhD
http://www.fluoridealert.org/fluoride-statement.htm

Quote:

1. I have been researching the literature on fluoride for just over three years. I approached this issue with an open mind. If I had any bias when I set out it was that those who were opposed to fluoridation were `crackpots'.

2. However, the more I have read the more concerned I have become over the dangers posed by fluoride and the very poor science underpinning its supposed efficacy in protecting children's teeth. How we ever allowed such a toxic substance into the drinking water is staggering. Even though fluoride's toxicity is rated higher than lead, the US Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) maximum contaminant level for lead in water is 15 ppb (parts per billion) whereas the level allowed for fluoride is 4,000 ppb. The recommended level for artificial fluoridation of the drinking water of 1 part per million (1 ppm = 1,000 ppb) was established in 1945, and it hasn't been changed since, even though today we (and our children) are getting fluoride from many other additional sources, including toothpaste, other dental products, mouthwashes, processed food, some vitamin tablets, and beverages.
Processed food and beverages contain a LOT of fluoride:
http://www.fortcollinscwa.org/pages/fluoride.htm

More scientific evidence against fluoride:
http://www.rvi.net/~fluoride/


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
The cases I have read, noone was ever given iodine if they had thyroid cancer. In fact there are doctors that demand an ultrasound if a person is shown to be seriously deficient before starting supplementation to rule out thyroid cancer. If anything is found supplementation is not started.

Are you sure this is not just a mainstream point of view?

I haven't spent much time over at the Cancer section of www.iodine4health.com but my understanding is that inorganic non radioactive iodine induces "apoptosis" ... which means cell death of abnormal cells.
http://iodine4health.com/disease/thy...oid_cancer.htm

Iodine induced apoptosis can influence shrinking of non cancerous conditions such as thyroid nodules, cysts and keliods but also used in skin cancer and cancerous tumors. *Apoptosis, or when cells die off and are replaced, is our primary defense against cancer.* Cancer cells are cells which do not undergo apoptosis.

The 4th edition of Brownstein's book talks a bit about apoptosis and how ATP cofactors (vitamins B2 and B3) influence. It's a very interesting concept to think about and could certainly apply to many different benign and malignant conditions.


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## JaneS

Whome,

I cannot wait until you read the Oxidation and Organification section of Brownstein's new book!


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## JaneS

*Radioactive Iodine*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *so_fetch* 
What I meant was that I don't understand how the radioactive iodine could have killed my thyroid cells but not my other cells- given that they all have iodine receptors.

I guess my thought would be: How do you know it has not? You might not find out until later. See above re: RAI and bones as just one example, it has been proven to go to other receptors on the body.

Did you have symptoms after taking RAI? This story said to me that it effected other parts of the body...

Quote:

The function of I-131 in treatment of thyroid cancer is to kill thyroid tissue along with cancer however, I-131 is not that discriminating. Many doctors tell their patients prior to an ablation treatment that it is the greatest form of treatment because it ONLY goes to the thyroid gland and there is no other cancer treatment like this.THIS IS NOT TRUE. Iodine goes to every gland and mucosal lining in your body. They all use iodine and when it comes in - radioactive or not it will pull it in through its NIS (sodium iodine symporters) into the cells and damage the DNA of that cell. Most will die but many will be mutated through this process. If you spend time on the thyroid cancer boards you will see many women who later get breast cancer and in men it is prostate cancer...

When I had my last round of RAI (250 mCi's), I lost almost all saliva, had a burning tongue, developed sores on the inside of my nose and vomited for 3 days. I am now sensitive to gluten and am in early menopause. My immune system was low for 1 year after treatment. My breast developed 3 fibrous masses as well. I also went into severe adrenal fatigue. So many things could be tied to RAI yet my Endocrinologist told me there was no correlation and that he had never heard of anyone having issues like I did. Yet it is common - there are many more of us.

If one were to think about all this rationally and lay aside what conventional doctors say, it is impossible to believe that there is no damage to the body. The RAI does not go to just the thyroid bed and attack the remaining tissue and manage to find other "stray" thyroid cancer cells without touching anything. If it is in the blood it is everywhere. As it exits the body it is in the stomach, intestines and colon along with the bladder...

Even though I had 3 rounds of RAI, I do not recommend it to others. I was not informed that there were natural options available for treating thyroid cancer. It was not until I was facing external beam radiation after 3 failed RAI's that I sought the help of a holistic MD. *I am now meeting individuals who have healed from thyroid cancer without thyroidectomies or RAI by using thyroid supporting nutrients.*

Natural Thyroid Choices:
Just say NO to Thyroidectomies, RAI and Synthetic hormones.
http://www.naturalthyroidchoices.com/RAI.html
Stephanie from that website is now a patient of Dr. Brownstein and moderator of the Iodine Yahoo group.
http://www.iodine4health.com/basic/iodinegroup.htm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *so_fetch* 
As for natural iodine treating thyroid cancer, I also don't understand that. The whole point of the RAI treatment, as I understood it, was that it would be absorbed by all my thyroid cells, including those that had become cancerous, and kill them. This meant that even if the cancer had spread into lymph nodes/other parts of the body, because they originated in the thyroid they would still uptake iodine and be killed. I don't fully understand what normal iodine would do then, wouldn't it just stimulate the thyroid cells (cancerous and non) to continue growing?

See above re: apoptosis and cell death. I'd love to learn more about it!


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
My mom had her thyroid removed b/c it had a tumor (turned out to be benign). Would she benefit from Iodine?

Yes again, since there are receptors all over the body. And most certainly the tumor could have been caused by iodine deficiency. I know that people with thyroid nodules have a higher risk of cancer, so she probably does as well.

OMG, that makes me fume!







: When was this?

Presumably she is on thyroid medication too? Does she feel good? The thyroid project researchers have said that thyroid meds w/o iodine will increase body's need for it even more. She should probably see a practitioner who knows about iodine.


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## JaneS

Pat,

You know I agree with you too on a basic level!







I appreciate this opinion and believe me, I wrestle with the concept.

I have just reached a place in my life and my health where I have done everything I can to eat the best diet I possibly can ... which included food sources of iodine from seaweeds... and there are still some things missing and not working.

My basal body temps are low. I still do not have the energy, sleep, mood and brain function of years past. I do not believe it's "aging" as they have certainly all improved on a TF diet. Although certainly my very high stress life in recent years has also contributed. The temps are the most telling for me that there is more to the equation and my thyroid function is not working as it should. Low basal body temps can only be caused by reduced thyroid function and some rare other conditions and medications.

I have in my health history a lot of examples of toxic load: mercury, antibiotics, bromide, fluoride. I still think that fighting unnatural body states with vitamins/minerals, even unnatural supplements, are quite possibly the best answer we have to resolve a disease state that is not otherwise budging.

For me, iodine supplementation is one step I need to take based on my intuition right now. And so far my intuition's been pretty darn good.

My point in starting this thread is to raise awareness that iodine deficiency can effect so many conditions which have exploded in recent years. *And* there are clinicians treating these disorders successfully by replacing our natural bodily need for iodine with a safe mineral supplement.

I think if the kelp or dulse is calling you, go for it! But maybe make sure it's been tested for halides...?







Like any other supplement, awareness of how it effects the body and in what dosage could be the difference between health and disease. I'd hate for someone to continue to go through what I did: eating certain amounts of seaweed and not having it work and wondering, why?


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## JaneS

I also forgot to add other reasons why I'm particularly concerned about my thyroid:

One grandmother had hers removed "due to complications from scarlet fever" is the story. No one knows for sure why exactly.

The other grandmother died of a heart attack at age 55, often a sign of thyroid problems.

My father, age 69, has multiple thyroid nodules.

My DS has low basal body temps too and our holistic RD wants to address them including iodine supplementation. I'll be posting Brownstein's guidelines for children in a minute.


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## JaneS

*Children and Iodine*

As Nichole posted above, there is some evidence that ADD/ADHD and autism can be caused in part by iodine deficiency. There is also some correlation with mood and depression problems. Low iodine certainly has been shown to reduce IQ and retard growth. Iodine can influence development of human growth hormone.

Guidelines for testing and supplementing children from _IODINE: Why You Need It, Why You Can't Live Without It_:

Quote:

HOW TO TEST A CHILD FOR IODINE

If a child weighs less than 80lbs (36kg) he can take 12.5mg of iodine/iodide (1 Iodoral tablet or 2 drops of Lugol's solution) in the morning. Then, 24 hours of urine is collected and a sample is sent for analysis. It is important to let the laboratory know that it is a child being tested and that the child did not take the usual adult loading test iodine amount (50mg). Both laboratories (*FFP* and *Hakala*) ... will perform an iodine loading test on children.

Quote:

DOSING A CHILD WITH IODINE

It is important to remember that every individual is a unique biochemical person. No one dose fits all. My experience has shown that iodine (in the form of iodine/iodide) dosed at *0.25mg/kg/day (or 0.11mg/pounds/day)* is an approximate amount of iodine to ingest for most children. However, I do not suggest supplementing a child without working with a knowledgeable health care provider who can properly test and follow your child's laboratory results.
My DS weighs 50 lbs so that would be 5.5mg or 3 drops of Iosol. I would start him on 1 drop and titrate up.

The following stat is eye opening... what if low iodine is indeed a primary cause of the high prevalence of ASD disorders?

Quote:

Researchers reported in 2005 that *16.8 percent of women* of childbearing age had moderate to severe iodine deficiency (urinary iodine concentrations less than 50mcg/L).
This is an increase from 2.6% in 1970, also quoted in Brownstein's book.









He offers the research done on Japanese pregnant women showing 12mg on average intake as a safe amount to take while pg. and underscores the need to stock iodine stores before pg.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
But what I'm wondering is if the bromine in the seaweed doesn't buffer the iodine somehow, so even if they're absorbing it and excreting it, if the bromine is interfering, wouldn't that need to be taken into account when translating it into a dose of a purified supplement?

Here is that post... in reading the organification and oxidation information I couldn't help but wonder if other nutrients help the iodine "stay" where it is in the receptors when the body ingests bromides?

Edit:







is there some kind of MDC prize for 9 posts in a row? OCD much?


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## JaneS

Another thing I came across with respect to children and pg is that apoptosis controls the development of body parts in the fetus. Such as fingers: apoptosis occurs between them as they are formed...

So iodine deficiency could be the result of babes that are born with various abnormalities where their body parts are fused.


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## JaneS

*Using Iodine on the Skin and for Bacteria/Virus Control*

Quote:

All pre-malignant lesions and many other oddities of the skin appear to respond to this regeneration process triggered by topical iodine. I have mentioned previously a patient with a biopsy-proven *breast cancer lesion* (she refused surgery because of previous cancer treatment) that was strongly fixed to the skin responding well to topical iodine and ended up being a dimple on the breast three year later. (6)

It is my belief a water solution of iodine (like Lugol's) is an important therapeutic agent for skin. Because of its effectiveness and the results, perhaps many skin diseases are related to local tissue areas of relative iodine deficiency. Perhaps the most graphic lesions are the *"keloid" (worm) incision scars* formed after surgical procedures. If the iodine intake and tissue levels are adequate, such as in Japan, keloid formation doesn't happen (7). In addition, iodine's ability to trigger natural cell death (apoptosis) (5) makes it effective against all pre-cancerous skin lesions and likely many cancerous lesions. The local site is replaced with normal skin. However, even lesser doses of topical iodine seem to reverse the ominous appearance of skin lesions. Because my older brother died of metastatic melanoma, my chances of getting a malignant melanoma are increased by 400 times. (8-9) Having grown up in Venezuela near the equator my sun exposure at a young age was far above normal. So all suspicious lesions I notice are returned to normal with topical Lugol's.

Quote:

Some of our recent serious skin diseases such a "*flesh-eating disease*" should respond quickly to topical iodine treatment practiced by Fanny. Or, for another example, iodine put onto a mosquito bite would kill all bacteria and viruses at the site of the bite within 10-30 seconds making it impossible for any virus or bacteria to multiply and get started --such as in *West Nile Fever*. Naturally, this applies to tic bites (*Lyme's disease*) as well. For many decades in the 1800s people carried around little bottles of iodine around their necks to use on all occasions. People in mosquito and tic infested areas should think of doing this again. (8) In addition, it has been forgotten vaporized iodine rapidly kills air borne viruses such as polio and SARS viruses.. Used extensively in the forties and fifties it may be of use to explore this approach again.
Dr. David Derry at: http://thyroid.about.com/library/derry/bl2a.htm


----------



## so_fetch

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Are you sure this is not just a mainstream point of view?

I haven't spent much time over at the Cancer section of www.iodine4health.com but my understanding is that inorganic non radioactive iodine induces "apoptosis" ... which means cell death of abnormal cells.
http://iodine4health.com/disease/thy...oid_cancer.htm

Iodine induced apoptosis can influence shrinking of non cancerous conditions such as thyroid nodules, cysts and keliods but also used in skin cancer and cancerous tumors. *Apoptosis, or when cells die off and are replaced, is our primary defense against cancer.* Cancer cells are cells which do not undergo apoptosis.

The 4th edition of Brownstein's book talks a bit about apoptosis and how ATP cofactors (vitamins B2 and B3) influence. It's a very interesting concept to think about and could certainly apply to many different benign and malignant conditions.

I read the article and I thought it was very interesting, so thank you for the link! The problem I see is that the line after the one you bolded, "Cancer cells are cells which do not undergo apoptosis." Apoptosis is not exactly the death of _abnormal_ cells, it is the death of all cells. Normal cells undergo apoptosis regularly, it is how the body regulates itself.

However, the problem with cancerous cells is that they do not undergo apoptosis because there is something wrong with them. Therefore, the apoptosis inducing property of iodine is not relevant to cancer treatment because the cancerous cells are not able to undergo apoptosis.

I am not a doctor and all of this is from reading that I have done to educate myself and try to make informed decisions about my cancer treatments.

As for the other links you posted in your other post (So much information in one place!) That is really horrible to read about how sick that woman got after getting her treatment. I fortunately had virtually no symptoms, it's really scary to think that that could have happened.

Thank you so much for all of the links. I really want to learn about all of this because I am so interested about how all of these things affect my body.


----------



## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Are you sure this is not just a mainstream point of view?


Pretty certain as it's happening all over the US in alternative medicine circles where the physicians are evaluating iodine research and treating accordingly. More info is available every day, but this is being done by doctors who are focused on iodine testing and supplementation.


----------



## Panserbjorne

Jane,
Have you ever tried anything aside from diet? For yourself?


----------



## JaneS

For thyroid? No.
Whoops, that's not exactly true! I tried Thyroid Factors with guggul gum, and that was murder on my stomach. Back when I was working with my nutritionist on me! Otherwise, it's been all DS, all the time pretty much.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
Pretty certain as it's happening all over the US in alternative medicine circles where the physicians are evaluating iodine research and treating accordingly. More info is available every day, but this is being done by doctors who are focused on iodine testing and supplementation.

Well it sounds from Stephanie from Natural Thyroid Choices that there are thyroid cancer patients just treating with iodine and nutrients. I don't know if Brownstein does it, as I said she is his patient, maybe there is more on her Yahoo group. I'll have to keep my eyes open.


----------



## JaneS

Panserbjørne,

Brownstein's book says:

Quote:

Iodine supplementation has been shown to significantly improve the prognosis of thyroid cancer by shifting the type of cancer to a more easily treatable (i.e., differentiated) form.
Brownstein also treats breast cancer patients with iodine:

Quote:

Iodine/iodide supplementation has markedly improved the course of illness in fibrocystic breasts in almost all of my patients with fibrocystic breast disease. In addition those with breast cancer also improve. Nodules and fibrous changes of the breasts significantly improve in a short time period. I believe that the epidemic of breast disease we are seeing in this country is due, in no small part, to iodine deficiency.
So_fetch,

(are you a Ruff Ruffman fan?)

Yes, you are correct, cancer cells are abnormal cells that do not undergo apoptosis and thus continue to grow!


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Yes again, since there are receptors all over the body. And most certainly the tumor could have been caused by iodine deficiency. I know that people with thyroid nodules have a higher risk of cancer, so she probably does as well.

OMG, that makes me fume!







: When was this?

Presumably she is on thyroid medication too? Does she feel good? The thyroid project researchers have said that thyroid meds w/o iodine will increase body's need for it even more. She should probably see a practitioner who knows about iodine.

this was probably 5 years ago. She's on whatever the common thyroid medication is. However, she doesn't feel very good. I got her to go see a functional medicine guy and he wanted her to do an adrenal test. 3 months later she hasn't done it. I'm not sure if he's familiar with thyroid stuff though. I'll never get her to see anyone. She's tired all the time.


----------



## Toolip

:


----------



## SeekerJayne

Can one of you more knowledgeable ladies give your opinion on what I have experienced since being on and off Iodoral? Perhaps some information has already been posted that I missed. I saw a soon to be naturopath in April and filled out several detailed pages concerning my health and diet. She and another educated friend seperately suggested Iodoral for symptoms I have experienced for some time - low energy, foggy brain, cold feet, breast cysts. I was warned by my friend that in rare instances the iodine could lead to a hyperthyroid state. I usually do more in depth research, but this time got some basic information, looked at the potential benefits, and thought that it made sense to try the iodine. We currently have no income coming in and are trying to get by until we have some means, so I did not do the testing. I started out at 50 mg because that is what the naturopath ordered for me. The first week I had more energy and maybe only a day of possible detox symptoms, and a couple of people said I was glowing. After two weeks, I woke up warm and jittery in the middle of the night and decided to go down to 25 mg. The third week I had severe headaches, red eyes that just felt weird (like air moving around them), and increased potty runs, so I cut back again to approximately 12 mg, and then after the fourth week stopped completely. I've continued to have terrible headaches.

I have been off for two weeks, and I keep feeling warm in the middle of the night and the first half of the day. Our house is kept at 76 degrees, and I keep wearing a sleeveless shirt, drinking ice water, standing in the freezer, and still feeling warm. Aside from warmth, I hadn't been jittery until the last couple of days. I feel completely exhausted again, like I am unable to cope, highly irritable, and afraid that I have permanently messed up my thyroid and put it into a hyper state by not being more cautious.

I might add that I do tend to magnify whatever is going on in my life at the time, so I don't know if perhaps I am being hyper-SENSITIVE to the possibility of a problem, experiecing detox or withdrawal symptoms, or if I've got a hyper thyroid state now instead of the previously presumed (but not confirmed) hypo state. My resting heart beat was already at a high 100 before the iodine and I've had a tremor since I was in the fourth grade, so those symptom indicators don't help me much.

So, I'd really love some feedback from those who have read, experienced more about what may be going on as I am afraid right now of having done permanent harm and we really don't have the means for me to do the thyroid testing and iodine testing, though I suppose there's always a way. Even if I wait until I can do the testing, should I be taking the support supplements? I have magnesium, wheat germ oil for E, CLO, sea salt, and brewer's yeast for B vitamins (though it looked like it would take 26 TB of the yeast to reach the amount of B vitamins recommended on the Breast Cancer Choices site which references iodine usage). Thank you so much for posting this thread, and please help!


----------



## so_fetch

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
So_fetch,

(are you a Ruff Ruffman fan?)

Yes, you are correct, cancer cells are abnormal cells that do not undergo apoptosis and thus continue to grow!

Actually my username is a reference to _Mean Girls_! I never even thought of the Ruff Ruffaman connection!









I've been thinking about the article that you linked to about iodine inducing apoptosis in thyroid cells. If it does (and it certainly seems to) wouldn't taking iodine supplements be bad for you? Obviously everyone needs some iodine, but if a normally healthy person gets iodine from things like salt and seafood and then gets even MORE iodine from supplements, wouldn't that kill off some thyroid cells and cause them to develop hypothyroidism?


----------



## FireWithin

is constipation a detox sign? The only way I've been comfortable the past few days is by taking 700 mg of mag. Being able two ingest that much mag is a new experience for me. I normally can't do more than 150. (I am taking taurine which is increasing mag bowel tolerance.) I am trying to drink more than normal to help myself out. I've tried a salt flush two times and I just end up feeling puffy, no extra pee. I'm taking two drops of Lugol's a day.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mammo2Sammo* 
is constipation a detox sign? The only way I've been comfortable the past few days is by taking 700 mg of mag. Being able two ingest that much mag is a new experience for me. I normally can't do more than 150. (I am taking taurine which is increasing mag bowel tolerance.) I am trying to drink more than normal to help myself out. I've tried a salt flush two times and I just end up feeling puffy, no extra pee. I'm taking two drops of Lugol's a day.

I've seen that doing stuff to mobilize toxins increases my nutrient needs--is your mag need going up just after the iodine, or after the taurine, or both? I was assuming the first.

I didn't pee extra after trying the salt flush, I think my adrenals meant that on an ongoing basis, I haven't been holding onto sodium properly. If you keep trying, maybe that would change? If you get fully hydrated first (if it's the same as the issue I'm having). Though I didn't feel puffy, I just noticed I felt better for the next day or two (energy-wise).


----------



## chlobo

ok, I've been taking 12.5mg iodine for 3 days and I"m sleeping horribly. I'm taking between 1200 & 1500mg of mag. too and I'm definitely at bowel tolerance.


----------



## deditus

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mammo2Sammo* 
is constipation a detox sign?


Yes, especially yeast die-off.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
ok, I've been taking 12.5mg iodine for 3 days and I"m sleeping horribly. I'm taking between 1200 & 1500mg of mag. too and I'm definitely at bowel tolerance.

Since you're nursing, I'd say stop and try to work on catching up with what's mobilized.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

I have slowly upped my iodine intake to 2 1/2 Iodoral (31.5 mg approx.). Over the last week or so, I have had two nights where I had very vivid and somewhat disturbing dreams that once I wake from them, I'm up for about an hour with very heightened anxiety/anxiety attacks. Is this from the Iodine? Should I stop the iodine? Back way off to 1 pill a day? I'm taking magnesium (probably 600 mg a day), I get at least 125 mcg of selenium a day, and if I remember to eat a Brazil nut, I get more. I can't keep having these dreams/anxiety issues at night though. Help.


----------



## chlobo

OK, I just got my results back:

Spot urinary iodide level - .142 mg/l

24 hr urinary iodine test

total iodine excredted 43.674 mg (from 50 mg loading dose)
% excreted 87%

So is this good or bad? Because below it says that if I excrete more than 90% I might have one of several problems and 90% is pretty close to 87%. How would I know for sure if I have one of these other problems?


----------



## mom61508

Where do i find an iodine friendly doc?I tried the links provided but didn't seem to work


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
OK, I just got my results back:

Spot urinary iodide level - .142 mg/l

24 hr urinary iodine test

total iodine excredted 43.674 mg (from 50 mg loading dose)
% excreted 87%

So is this good or bad? Because below it says that if I excrete more than 90% I might have one of several problems and 90% is pretty close to 87%. How would I know for sure if I have one of these other problems?

What is the normal range for spot levels?


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
What is the normal range for spot levels?

So my level was .142 mg/l

WHO define any measurement below .10 mg/l as an iodine deficiency.

But the thing that concerned me was the part where it said if I excrete "too much" I may have trouble utilizing or absorbing iodine. How would I know?

And the iodine seems to keep me up at night.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Where do i find an iodine friendly doc?I tried the links provided but didn't seem to work









did you try this link? This is the one I have on 1st page for practitioners
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/ipractitioners.html

There is also another page here but I don't know if it's the same ppl or not:
http://www.naturalthyroidchoices.com...titioners.html

If there is any other link not working, please lmk.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
So my level was .142 mg/l

WHO define any measurement below .10 mg/l as an iodine deficiency.

But the thing that concerned me was the part where it said if I excrete "too much" I may have trouble utilizing or absorbing iodine. How would I know?

And the iodine seems to keep me up at night.

You mean "defective cellular transfer" ... this description is measured by serum which is different?

Quote:

her baseline serum iodide level was only 0.016 mg/L, compared to the expected levels of 0.85-1.3 mg/L in those with whole body iodine sufficiency.
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-20/IOD_20.htm

Looking for "spot levels"...


----------



## JaneS

Chlobo,

You didn't take iodine before the spot test did you?

The triple test of loading dose urine, saliva and serum would confirm a defective cellular transfer issue.

Quote:

Combining the loading test with the measurements of serum and saliva iodide 24 hours post-load gives an assessment of iodine sufficiency of the whole body and efficiency of the cellular uptake and utilization of peripheral iodide.(16) This is called the triple test for the combined assessment of sufficiency and efficiency.
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-18/IOD_18.htm


----------



## JaneS

Sorry, I'm really not trying to break my own record of so many posts in a row!

I'm afraid to say the loading test doesn't tell you if you are just excreting a lot of iodine or if you are really sufficient.

*The saliva/serum iodide ratio as an index of sodium/iodide symporter efficiency*
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-13/IOD_13.htm

*
Evidence of Defective Cellular Oxidation and Organification of Iodide in a Female with Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue*
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-20/IOD_20.htm

Quote:

In patients with normal gastrointestinal absorption of iodine but with a very defective iodine retention system, the absorbed iodine is quantitatively excreted in the urine with little or no retention.5 In these cases, the loading test will suggest whole body iodine sufficiency (90% or more excreted), but the serum inorganic iodide levels 24 hours after the iodine load will remain low (less than 0.13 mg/L). The inefficient iodine retention mechanism could be due to either an inefficient cellular iodine transport system or to an inefficient oxidation and organification of the intracellular iodide, or possibly both
The spot test is only useful to tell you how much iodine you are ingesting per day.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I have slowly upped my iodine intake to 2 1/2 Iodoral (31.5 mg approx.). Over the last week or so, I have had two nights where I had very vivid and somewhat disturbing dreams that once I wake from them, I'm up for about an hour with very heightened anxiety/anxiety attacks. Is this from the Iodine? Should I stop the iodine? Back way off to 1 pill a day? I'm taking magnesium (probably 600 mg a day), I get at least 125 mcg of selenium a day, and if I remember to eat a Brazil nut, I get more. I can't keep having these dreams/anxiety issues at night though. Help.

I would back off. Are you taking vitamin C? Do you have any headaches?


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *so_fetch* 
Actually my username is a reference to _Mean Girls_! I never even thought of the Ruff Ruffaman connection!









I've been thinking about the article that you linked to about iodine inducing apoptosis in thyroid cells. If it does (and it certainly seems to) wouldn't taking iodine supplements be bad for you? Obviously everyone needs some iodine, but if a normally healthy person gets iodine from things like salt and seafood and then gets even MORE iodine from supplements, wouldn't that kill off some thyroid cells and cause them to develop hypothyroidism?

There is not much iodine in salt and seafood. Iodine research reveal that 13.8mg per day average intake of coastal Japanese is the amount that the body needs for both thyroid and other body cells for women, when the body is sufficiently stocked. We are exposed to and have extreme body burdens of other halides which are toxic to our cells, including blocking iodine in the thyroid. So other factors which may require more iodine is larger breasts, obesity, high toxin/halide exposure.

Apoptosis would only apply to cells needing to die, it doesn't cause cells in the thyroid or other places which are living their normal life cycle to die off randomly! Lack of apoptosis, lack of iodine that induces it, is what can lead to thyroid nodules and goiter. And other conditions throughout the body: ovarian cysts, uterine fibroids, fibrocystic breasts, and keloids.... abnormal cells which collect and grow b/c they have not undergone normal apoptosis.

I also want to add that I wonder if skin cancer is influenced by iodine deficiency?

Since the skin comprises 20% of our 1500 mg. body load. Interesting to think about.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SeekerJayne* 
Can one of you more knowledgeable ladies give your opinion on what I have experienced since being on and off Iodoral? Perhaps some information has already been posted that I missed. I saw a soon to be naturopath in April and filled out several detailed pages concerning my health and diet. She and another educated friend seperately suggested Iodoral for symptoms I have experienced for some time - low energy, foggy brain, cold feet, breast cysts. I was warned by my friend that in rare instances the iodine could lead to a hyperthyroid state. I usually do more in depth research, but this time got some basic information, looked at the potential benefits, and thought that it made sense to try the iodine. We currently have no income coming in and are trying to get by until we have some means, so I did not do the testing. I started out at 50 mg because that is what the naturopath ordered for me. The first week I had more energy and maybe only a day of possible detox symptoms, and a couple of people said I was glowing. After two weeks, I woke up warm and jittery in the middle of the night and decided to go down to 25 mg. The third week I had severe headaches, red eyes that just felt weird (like air moving around them), and increased potty runs, so I cut back again to approximately 12 mg, and then after the fourth week stopped completely. I've continued to have terrible headaches.

I have been off for two weeks, and I keep feeling warm in the middle of the night and the first half of the day. Our house is kept at 76 degrees, and I keep wearing a sleeveless shirt, drinking ice water, standing in the freezer, and still feeling warm. Aside from warmth, I hadn't been jittery until the last couple of days. I feel completely exhausted again, like I am unable to cope, highly irritable, and afraid that I have permanently messed up my thyroid and put it into a hyper state by not being more cautious.

I might add that I do tend to magnify whatever is going on in my life at the time, so I don't know if perhaps I am being hyper-SENSITIVE to the possibility of a problem, experiecing detox or withdrawal symptoms, or if I've got a hyper thyroid state now instead of the previously presumed (but not confirmed) hypo state. My resting heart beat was already at a high 100 before the iodine and I've had a tremor since I was in the fourth grade, so those symptom indicators don't help me much.

So, I'd really love some feedback from those who have read, experienced more about what may be going on as I am afraid right now of having done permanent harm and we really don't have the means for me to do the thyroid testing and iodine testing, though I suppose there's always a way. Even if I wait until I can do the testing, should I be taking the support supplements? I have magnesium, wheat germ oil for E, CLO, sea salt, and brewer's yeast for B vitamins (though it looked like it would take 26 TB of the yeast to reach the amount of B vitamins recommended on the Breast Cancer Choices site which references iodine usage). Thank you so much for posting this thread, and please help!

I think it's possible you might have autoimmune thyroid illness: Grave's or Hashimoto's. The latter is confirmed by antibodies in the blood. Not sure how Grave's is dx.

Dr. Brownstein treats his autoimmune patients as deficient in iodine and antioxidants. The B vitamins (ATP Co factors 100mg B2 and 500mg B3 1-3x per day) in addition to iodine are essential to treating. And vitamin C up to 10 grams per day he says. And magnesium. And salt flushes. I would be taking all of these w/o the iodine pending testing.

Selenium is also very important for autoimmune patients too I believe.

I think it's also possible from your symptoms such as headaches and others that you are bromide toxic.

What I would do in your case is get conventional blood testing done for thyroid including free T3 and free T4 as well as antibodies (I think there are two types). And the iodine loading/bromide testing. And read Brownstein's book.

I know how it is not to have the $ believe me.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
I'll never get her to see anyone.

I can sympathize. Both my father and one of my best friends have thyroid nodules. It's very frustrating to have them ask their doctors and they say high iodine is dangerous and not the cause... then they let me have it.







:


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I would back off. Are you taking vitamin C? Do you have any headaches?

I am taking vitamin C (SA), but some days only get 2000 mg. I always have a headache (seriously, my mom used to joke that when I was old and dead, my tombstone would read "I have a headache"). I think I was probably doing fine on 1 1/2 and maybe 2 tablets of Iodoral. Today I have had none and don't plan on taking any until I feel the anxiety is gone (it's much better today, but Rescue Remedy has still been my friend as has salt). I think when I do start back up, I'll start again with only 1/2 pill for a long while. I have no need to push this all too fast and despite toxic hair analysis, I more than likely have mercury issues to deal with as well. I just cannot do anxiety attacks in the middle of the night as the anxiety, though it diminishes throughout the day, stays with me for about 24 hours.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
did you try this link? This is the one I have on 1st page for practitioners
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/ipractitioners.html

There is also another page here but I don't know if it's the same ppl or not:
http://www.naturalthyroidchoices.com...titioners.html

If there is any other link not working, please lmk.









thank you


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Well it sounds from Stephanie from Natural Thyroid Choices that there are thyroid cancer patients just treating with iodine and nutrients. I don't know if Brownstein does it, as I said she is his patient, maybe there is more on her Yahoo group. I'll have to keep my eyes open.

I know of multiple people who've had their thyroid RAI'd or removed or both that are supplementing with iodine, if they had cancer that's even more proof of their deficiency.

Did you know that a person can regrow their thyroid? It is possible with a diet that is rich in iodine, and yes you do want to grow it back, it's essential. The only reason why a person developed cancer of the thyroid in the first place is due to deficiency, just like breast cancer, pancreatic cancer, skin cancer, prostate cancer....

I'm unable to but perhaps Jane could add a link to the cancer page on my site...


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SeekerJayne* 
Can one of you more knowledgeable ladies give your opinion on what I have experienced since being on and off Iodoral? Perhaps some information has already been posted that I missed. I saw a soon to be naturopath in April and filled out several detailed pages concerning my health and diet. She and another educated friend seperately suggested Iodoral for symptoms I have experienced for some time - low energy, foggy brain, cold feet, breast cysts. I was warned by my friend that in rare instances the iodine could lead to a hyperthyroid state. I usually do more in depth research, but this time got some basic information, looked at the potential benefits, and thought that it made sense to try the iodine. We currently have no income coming in and are trying to get by until we have some means, so I did not do the testing. I started out at 50 mg because that is what the naturopath ordered for me. The first week I had more energy and maybe only a day of possible detox symptoms, and a couple of people said I was glowing. After two weeks, I woke up warm and jittery in the middle of the night and decided to go down to 25 mg. The third week I had severe headaches, red eyes that just felt weird (like air moving around them), and increased potty runs, so I cut back again to approximately 12 mg, and then after the fourth week stopped completely. I've continued to have terrible headaches.

I have been off for two weeks, and I keep feeling warm in the middle of the night and the first half of the day. Our house is kept at 76 degrees, and I keep wearing a sleeveless shirt, drinking ice water, standing in the freezer, and still feeling warm. Aside from warmth, I hadn't been jittery until the last couple of days. I feel completely exhausted again, like I am unable to cope, highly irritable, and afraid that I have permanently messed up my thyroid and put it into a hyper state by not being more cautious.

I might add that I do tend to magnify whatever is going on in my life at the time, so I don't know if perhaps I am being hyper-SENSITIVE to the possibility of a problem, experiecing detox or withdrawal symptoms, or if I've got a hyper thyroid state now instead of the previously presumed (but not confirmed) hypo state. My resting heart beat was already at a high 100 before the iodine and I've had a tremor since I was in the fourth grade, so those symptom indicators don't help me much.

So, I'd really love some feedback from those who have read, experienced more about what may be going on as I am afraid right now of having done permanent harm and we really don't have the means for me to do the thyroid testing and iodine testing, though I suppose there's always a way. Even if I wait until I can do the testing, should I be taking the support supplements? I have magnesium, wheat germ oil for E, CLO, sea salt, and brewer's yeast for B vitamins (though it looked like it would take 26 TB of the yeast to reach the amount of B vitamins recommended on the Breast Cancer Choices site which references iodine usage). Thank you so much for posting this thread, and please help!

What else were you taking when you decided to supplement iodine? It is very important to support your detox pathways to help your body properly excrete the heavy metals that are in your body...

CLO
Magnesium
Vitamin C
And a good multi vitamin are a must (personal fave that I and many friends and family have used with success is one 'n' only)... but that's just with small doses of iodine, bigger doses require more...

Like more selenium, I take 300mcg a day
Chromium and Vanadium
higher dose of vitamin C (3000mg) and mag (500-1000mg)


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I am taking vitamin C (SA), but some days only get 2000 mg. I always have a headache (seriously, my mom used to joke that when I was old and dead, my tombstone would read "I have a headache"). I think I was probably doing fine on 1 1/2 and maybe 2 tablets of Iodoral. Today I have had none and don't plan on taking any until I feel the anxiety is gone (it's much better today, but Rescue Remedy has still been my friend as has salt). I think when I do start back up, I'll start again with only 1/2 pill for a long while. I have no need to push this all too fast and despite toxic hair analysis, I more than likely have mercury issues to deal with as well. I just cannot do anxiety attacks in the middle of the night as the anxiety, though it diminishes throughout the day, stays with me for about 24 hours.

What all are you taking again?

Iodine
Mag
and vit c?

It seems that a lot of people on here are unaware of how important it is to supplement ALL you vitamins and minerals. Our bodies are deficient in all of them in one way or another and when you start supping high doses of others, such as iodine and vit c you need more of all the others..

One n Only seriously is an awesome multi, take a look here to read the info on how much of each vitamin and mineral is in it.

Selenium is also an important factor, http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ract/87/4/1687

One must be sure to supplement appropriately.


----------



## Junegoddess

I read through the first several pages of this thread, as best I can with scattered attention... and I just couldn't wait any longer. I'm 9 1/2 weeks pregnant, and really want to make sure my iodine level is good, but probably have a lot of detoxing to do... yikes.

I'm guessing I should start low and increase slowly?? I have not managed to understand the detox pathway stuff, although I've tried to set aside time to read up on it.

So many sources say iodine is critical during pregnancy, but... what if I suddenly start dumping bromine and mercury? And fluoride.. our city water is fluoridated, and also so HARD that it breaks every decent water filter I've bought. Can't do a whole house system quite yet, although we are hoping to buy a house soon.

Anyway... since the pills are such a high dose, I'm thinking I need one of the liquid supplements, so I can water it down. What do you think?


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
What all are you taking again?

Iodine
Mag
and vit c?

It seems that a lot of people on here are unaware of how important it is to supplement ALL you vitamins and minerals. Our bodies are deficient in all of them in one way or another and when you start supping high doses of others, such as iodine and vit c you need more of all the others..

One n Only seriously is an awesome multi, take a look here to read the info on how much of each vitamin and mineral is in it.

Selenium is also an important factor, http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ract/87/4/1687

One must be sure to supplement appropriately.

I do a multi every day (which has 125 mcg of selenium in it),
magnesium (about 600 mg a day, a bit more when I feel I need it),
vitamin C (I try for at least 2000 grams a day, sometimes I'm good and get more),
B-Complex
vitamin D (2000 IU on its own),
CLO & fish oil (though I haven't the last few days because it has sounded rather disgusting for a strange reason - plan to restart today, but just in the middle of the day probably with food),
MSM (4000 mg a day, though I try to do 5000 mg a day when I remember),
GABA (1500 mg a day).

I just restarted a supplement my ND had me start back in November (I stopped in January or so to see if it was "essential" or not) called AdreneVive; it has Siberian Ginseng in it, L-Theanine, PhosphatidylSerene, plus a few other herbs in it.

I think that is everything I'm taking. I am a bit scared to restart the iodine, though I know I was doing fine on the smaller doses. Oh, I also try to get a Brazil nut in me every day to up the selenium. I want to make sure I'm back to a more baseline level of anxiety and then I might restart very, very slowly. Any suggestions?


----------



## JTA Mom

Nichole, is there anything extra (other than vitamins/minerals) that you take to help with detoxing stuff, like metals?

I know you were ebf when you started iodine, and since ds is still bf, I want to take everything I can to make sure that what I do detox is sent out other ways than in breast milk.

For starting out, do you think I should get a liquid supplement or go with the iodoral? If a liquid supplement, which brand do you recommend?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1 Multi (I believe the brand is important and the one I've had success with is One 'N' Only)
1 Cod liver oil
Do you have a brand preference for CLO?
750mg of Magnesium How do you get this amount? Online all I seem able to find is 500mg tablets. Is it ok to split them? Also, does it matter what type of magnesium it is?
32.5mg of iodine (I was experiencing some anxiety attacks a couple weeks ago and dropped my dose to try and figure out why I was having them, thought maybe I had reached sufficiency... realized what was happening, I was taking them at night because that's when I'm least nauseous, my body was trying to wind down but the vits were trying to wind up oops!)
1 Chromium with Vanadium pill (source naturals)
1 selenium (futurebiotics)
3000mg vit c (NSI brand)
I've also added inositol but still nauseous so skipping that giant horse pill til nausea passes...What does the inositol help with?
*
*
*
*

Thank you!!!

Ami*


----------



## mom61508

thought this was interesting although i live in the US.

http://www.usyd.edu.au/news/84.html?newsstoryid=904


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Ami, I'm not Nichole, but we use Natural Calm magnesium - it's powered and you mix it with hot water to make a "tea". It tastes good, and is a nice bedtime drink around here. 3 teaspoons of the power is about 615 mg. And yes, it does matter the form of magnesium; some are quite bioavailable and some are not at all. IIRC, the Natural Calm is magnesium citrate, which is a good form.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
Nichole, is there anything extra (other than vitamins/minerals) that you take to help with detoxing stuff, like metals?

I know you were ebf when you started iodine, and since ds is still bf, I want to take everything I can to make sure that what I do detox is sent out other ways than in breast milk.

For starting out, do you think I should get a liquid supplement or go with the iodoral? If a liquid supplement, which brand do you recommend?

Thank you!!!

Ami

I began with a liquid supp and it's called Liquid-dulse by Bernard and Jensen, I found it in the "liquid iodine" section at whole foods, for about $3.

One of the best way to help keep detox out of breastmilk is to drink extra water, it helps you to excrete it through your urine.

What I had listed is all I take, I think I mentioned siberian ginseng, but that's just for adrenal support...

I used to use Nature's Way Mag complex, I liked it but wanted to try one with malic acid in it as well so I bought source naturals to try out for now... Haven't seen a difference btw, thinking of switching back.

Inositol is a b vitamin, number 8 actually, here is some info on the importance of it...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I do a multi every day (which has 125 mcg of selenium in it),
magnesium (about 600 mg a day, a bit more when I feel I need it),
vitamin C (I try for at least 2000 grams a day, sometimes I'm good and get more),
B-Complex
vitamin D (2000 IU on its own),
CLO & fish oil (though I haven't the last few days because it has sounded rather disgusting for a strange reason - plan to restart today, but just in the middle of the day probably with food),
MSM (4000 mg a day, though I try to do 5000 mg a day when I remember),
GABA (1500 mg a day).

I just restarted a supplement my ND had me start back in November (I stopped in January or so to see if it was "essential" or not) called AdreneVive; it has Siberian Ginseng in it, L-Theanine, PhosphatidylSerene, plus a few other herbs in it.

I think that is everything I'm taking. I am a bit scared to restart the iodine, though I know I was doing fine on the smaller doses. Oh, I also try to get a Brazil nut in me every day to up the selenium. I want to make sure I'm back to a more baseline level of anxiety and then I might restart very, very slowly. Any suggestions?

How much do you get of each of the b vitamins?

Are you ok with your bm's at the 600mg, is it possible to try and up it a bit?

I would also look into an additional selenium supplement, you should get at least 200mcg, but up to 400mcg would be beneficial.

How is your iron? Are you getting that in your multi? How much? If none, do you experience lightheadedness when stepping out of the shower or standing up?

Does your multi have chromium or vanadium? How much?


----------



## chlobo

Nichole,

Do you have any idea how to interpret these results? It makes mer nervous to supplement when it appears I"m not deficient.

OK, I just got my results back:

Spot urinary iodide level - .142 mg/l

24 hr urinary iodine test

total iodine excredted 43.674 mg (from 50 mg loading dose)
% excreted 87%

So is this good or bad? Because below it says that if I excrete more than 90% I might have one of several problems and 90% is pretty close to 87%. How would I know for sure if I have one of these other problems?
__________________


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
I began with a liquid supp and it's called Liquid-dulse by Bernard and Jense

How much do you get of each of the b vitamins?

Are you ok with your bm's at the 600mg, is it possible to try and up it a bit?

I would also look into an additional selenium supplement, you should get at least 200mcg, but up to 400mcg would be beneficial.

How is your iron? Are you getting that in your multi? How much? If none, do you experience lightheadedness when stepping out of the shower or standing up?

Does your multi have chromium or vanadium? How much?

Of the B's, I'm getting:
Thiamine - 40 mg
Riboflavin - 28.6 mg
Niacin - 80 mg
Folate - 200 mcg
B12 - 100 mcg
Biotin - 80 mcg
B5 - 45 mg
Plus Choline Citrate - 40 mg

I think I do okay on 600 mg. I could probably up it to at least 800 mg without issue, and can add more calcium if I need. It's just making time to do it all, yk?

My multi has 120 mcg of Chromium and 10 mcg of Vanadium in it. I've often suspected low iron as I can get light headed pretty easily. But, I hate taking something for it for fear of taking too much. I've usually just pulled out the black-strap molasses for when I feel I need it. Oh, and today I ate 2 Brazil nuts (can you see I'm trying to avoid taking more supplements?!). I did not take any iodine yet today and probably won't until at least the weekend. I've had a couple episodes in the last 7 months of night time anxiety/panic attacks and I just do not want to experience one again. (The first one was the week before we were diganosed with Adrenal Fatigue - I had not yet started any supplements. I'm guessing it was more from extremely low serotonin. The last two have been just this last week and I think related more to going up to 2 1/2 tablets of Iodoral.)


----------



## mom61508

When you take all these supps does it matter when? Meaning do you spread them out throughout the day?


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Nichole,

Do you have any idea how to interpret these results? It makes mer nervous to supplement when it appears I"m not deficient.

OK, I just got my results back:

Spot urinary iodide level - .142 mg/l

24 hr urinary iodine test

total iodine excredted 43.674 mg (from 50 mg loading dose)
% excreted 87%

So is this good or bad? Because below it says that if I excrete more than 90% I might have one of several problems and 90% is pretty close to 87%. How would I know for sure if I have one of these other problems?
__________________

Well, how old are you?

Have you ever supplemented before?

Do you drink fluoridated water? Eat brominated bread? Drink brominated beverages?

Does your family have a history of known thyroid conditions or other symptoms associated with iodine deficiency?

Do you have mercury fillings?

Were you vaccinated as a child?

I'm sorry if you already posted elsewhere, but what all have you been taking?


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
Well, how old are you?

43

Have you ever supplemented before?

no

Do you drink fluoridated water? Eat brominated bread? Drink brominated beverages?

not for the past 8 years but prior to that

Does your family have a history of known thyroid conditions or other symptoms associated with iodine deficiency?

Mom had thyroid removed due to tumor

Do you have mercury fillings?

no

Were you vaccinated as a child?

Sadly

I'm sorry if you already posted elsewhere, but what all have you been taking?

I'm not taking iodine. Currently I'm taking

vit d
selenium
zinc
vit b12
vit c
magnesium
mag/calcium
HVCLO

recently stopped a multi-b


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Whome,

I cannot wait until you read the Oxidation and Organification section of Brownstein's new book!









I just got it and devoured it. I think I've likely got bromine issues and perchlorate issues. I'm assuming LA water is coming from the contaminated part of the Colorado River?

I bet the organification of iodine that only happens with 100x the RDA is what I was remembering from the iodine list.

I don't think I posted here, so I'll throw it in. I stopped 3 things this week - iodine (was about 8mg every other day or so), taurine, and switched back to ghee from butter. Dd is a much happier camper. I'm tentatively blaming the iodine. Now I've added in milk thistle and switched from mag citrate pills to natural calm. The Natural Calm definitely is better for me - it's significantly upped my bowel tolerance, woohoo!

From the book reading I've done so far, I think my plan is to really push the salt water (I've only been doing it occasionally and I *know* I've got salt issues), maximize my mag (got to get those Ca channels regulated!) then get dd on iodine herself, then do the loading test for me, but with a 25mg dose instead of the 50mg dose. My intuition is that the slow ramp up just isn't working for us, and I'm just dumping bromine to dd without seeing much of the benefit. I want the loading test so that if dd crashes and burns from it, at least there was some information gained


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I just got it and devoured it. I think I've likely got bromine issues and perchlorate issues. I'm assuming LA water is coming from the contaminated part of the Colorado River?

Can you tell me a little bit more about perchlorate issues? I have lived my whole life on LA county water (though we have had RO water for the last 3 years and now have a whole-house water softener plus RO for drinking/cooking). I'm trying to find out if my city itself draws its water from the same sources, but it looks like from LA county down to through all of San Diego county gets at least 50% of all water from perchlorate contaminated Colorado River water.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Can you tell me a little bit more about perchlorate issues? I have lived my whole life on LA county water (though we have had RO water for the last 3 years and now have a whole-house water softener plus RO for drinking/cooking). I'm trying to find out if my city itself draws its water from the same sources, but it looks like from LA county down to through all of San Diego county gets at least 50% of all water from perchlorate contaminated Colorado River water.









from Brownstein's book:

"[Perchlorate] can damage the iodine transport system (NIS)."
"In large enough doses, the chlorine in perchlorate will displace iodine."
"The entire lower Colorado River is contaminated with perchlorate. The lower Colorado River irrigates more that 1.8 million acres of land which encompasses over 15% of the nation's crops and 13% of the nation's livestock. Approximately 20 million Americans drink water from the Colorado River which is contaminated with perchlorate."
"Perchlorate is known to cross the placenta and can cause in-utero thyroid abnormalities."

So basically, it's another toxic halide, and it's really prevalent, especially in off season lettuce (organic or not). It also talks about all breast milk samples had *some* level of perchlorate, and the amount was inversely correlated to iodide content, so maybe the RDA for iodine for pg/nursing moms should be raised.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
from Brownstein's book:

"[Perchlorate] can damage the iodine transport system (NIS)."
"In large enough doses, the chlorine in perchlorate will displace iodine."
"The entire lower Colorado River is contaminated with perchlorate. The lower Colorado River irrigates more that 1.8 million acres of land which encompasses over 15% of the nation's crops and 13% of the nation's livestock. Approximately 20 million Americans drink water from the Colorado River which is contaminated with perchlorate."
"Perchlorate is known to cross the placenta and can cause in-utero thyroid abnormalities."

So basically, it's another toxic halide, and it's really prevalent, especially in off season lettuce (organic or not). It also talks about all breast milk samples had *some* level of perchlorate, and the amount was inversely correlated to iodide content, so maybe the RDA for iodine for pg/nursing moms should be raised.

Oh yay.







Thanks for the info though. I think I need to work on other nutritional supplementation (more vitamin C, more selenium and more magnesium) before beginning iodine again.


----------



## JayGee

I just wanted to post a quick update. I started Iodoral (12.5mg) and the One-n-Only multi recommended by Nichole 9 days ago and feel immeasurably better







. The fatigue is gone, I am not foggy anymore, and my workouts have improved. I've also dropped 4 pounds. I would like to add in a magnesium and the CLO too, but have to hit the HFS without kiddoes to get those







. I did have headaches for the first 4 or 5 days on Iodoral, but they resolved with lots of water (and a hit of caffiene).

Thank you so much for this thread!


----------



## Dera

I have a question about the vitamin C being mentioned. Why is that one of the important ones here? Isn't vit C easily available in many fruits and veggies? Are many people found to be deficient with symptoms? Does it help with detox?

Thanks!


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Of the B's, I'm getting:
Thiamine - 40 mg
Riboflavin - 28.6 mg
Niacin - 80 mg
Folate - 200 mcg
B12 - 100 mcg
Biotin - 80 mcg
B5 - 45 mg
Plus Choline Citrate - 40 mg

I think I do okay on 600 mg. I could probably up it to at least 800 mg without issue, and can add more calcium if I need. It's just making time to do it all, yk?

My multi has 120 mcg of Chromium and 10 mcg of Vanadium in it. I've often suspected low iron as I can get light headed pretty easily. But, I hate taking something for it for fear of taking too much. I've usually just pulled out the black-strap molasses for when I feel I need it. Oh, and today I ate 2 Brazil nuts (can you see I'm trying to avoid taking more supplements?!). I did not take any iodine yet today and probably won't until at least the weekend. I've had a couple episodes in the last 7 months of night time anxiety/panic attacks and I just do not want to experience one again. (The first one was the week before we were diganosed with Adrenal Fatigue - I had not yet started any supplements. I'm guessing it was more from extremely low serotonin. The last two have been just this last week and I think related more to going up to 2 1/2 tablets of Iodoral.)

Ok so a few other questions.. btw I totally understand the fear of having the panic/anxiety attacks, I was recently having some and was racking my brain trying to figure out why. For myself, I was taking my vitamins right before bed, not a good idea at least not taking the iodine that way. I have also been going to bed around 2 in the morning due to dd sleep schedule being off, I've been eating more sugary foods (love ice cream) and I'm also pg, thanks to these things I believe I have restarted my adrenal fatigue.. oh did I also mention that I had stopped taking my siberian ginseng for about 6 weeks and then I started getting the attacks.

So I started taking my vitamins in the morning again, added the ginseng back to my supplement list, started goin to bed a bit sooner, added some iron to my supplement list and so far I havent had another attack since.

So my questions are:

How long have you been doing the iodine now?

Have you been going to bed later than usual or eating more sweets than usual?

I still think that more selenium is important and that along with needing some extra iron may be your problem... glad your taking the brazil nuts, try and up your iron with the molasses and see how that works for you..

Oh and I would start back at only half an iodoral and work up to one and stay there for a few weeks and give your body more time to detox, no need to rush.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
43

Have you ever supplemented before?

no

Do you drink fluoridated water? Eat brominated bread? Drink brominated beverages?

not for the past 8 years but prior to that

Does your family have a history of known thyroid conditions or other symptoms associated with iodine deficiency?

Mom had thyroid removed due to tumor

Do you have mercury fillings?

no

Were you vaccinated as a child?

Sadly

I'm not taking iodine. Currently I'm taking

vit d
selenium
zinc
vit b12
vit c
magnesium
mag/calcium
HVCLO

recently stopped a multi-b

Based on this I'd say that you aren't sufficient, it is much more likely that you are excreting it all prior to your body being able to utilize it properly..

Although, did you stop taking the iodine for a few days prior to doing the loading test and spot test? I believe I read somewhere that you must stop in order for the test to be accurate.

How long have you been supplementing iodine now?

[/QUOTE]


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dera* 
I have a question about the vitamin C being mentioned. Why is that one of the important ones here? Isn't vit C easily available in many fruits and veggies? Are many people found to be deficient with symptoms? Does it help with detox?

Thanks!

There's a really long vitamin C thread around, but the short version is that it's very, very helpful for detox, it helps directly and it spares glutathione, which is how we get rid of heavy metals (among lots of other things), and the amounts people need are highly variable based on their lifelong health history. My kids and I are on the high end (for now, it'll come down over time), but when I start started, slowly tapering up to see what my bowel tolerance was (the amount my body would use, the excess causes diarrhea so it's a good way to figure out how much you need), I needed 44 grams per day. 44,000 milligrams. Every day. Most people wouldn't need as much, but I think the data is fairly strong that normal, healthy people _do_ usually need 4-5 grams per day (4,000 - 5,000 mg) so I think the 60mg RDA is, well, woefully inadequate.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
Ok so a few other questions.. btw I totally understand the fear of having the panic/anxiety attacks, I was recently having some and was racking my brain trying to figure out why. For myself, I was taking my vitamins right before bed, not a good idea at least not taking the iodine that way. I have also been going to bed around 2 in the morning due to dd sleep schedule being off, I've been eating more sugary foods (love ice cream) and I'm also pg, thanks to these things I believe I have restarted my adrenal fatigue.. oh did I also mention that I had stopped taking my siberian ginseng for about 6 weeks and then I started getting the attacks.

So I started taking my vitamins in the morning again, added the ginseng back to my supplement list, started goin to bed a bit sooner, added some iron to my supplement list and so far I havent had another attack since.

So my questions are:

How long have you been doing the iodine now?

Have you been going to bed later than usual or eating more sweets than usual?

I still think that more selenium is important and that along with needing some extra iron may be your problem... glad your taking the brazil nuts, try and up your iron with the molasses and see how that works for you..

Oh and I would start back at only half an iodoral and work up to one and stay there for a few weeks and give your body more time to detox, no need to rush.

1. I was doing the Iodine for probably at least a month. I had started at 1/2 pill for a week, then moved up 1/2 pill each week. So, since I was taking 2 1/2 pills, I was probably on week 5.

2. Eh, yea, we had been going to bed no sooner than midnight. I wasn't really falling asleep until closer to 1am.







: Though I have a sweet tooth, I don't think I had been eating much more than usual (which I try to be mindful of). But, definitely, I know the sleep was an issue.

3. I'll pull out the molasses and keep with 2 Brazil nuts a day. I also am going to order the multi you take. I think it's going to be a better one for dh and I. I also decided to go back to the B-complex with extra B6 (I had stopped and gone back to a regular B-complex w/out extra B6 because my dreams had been getting overly active, but it could have been a combo of a lot of things including iodine and sleep times).

And I agree with you ... there doesn't seem to be any reason to rush any of this. I don't plan on being pregnant again, so I don't need to prep my body for anything but a general sense of well being. I am very tired of being tired and sick. And really want to feel better.

And I need to move my evening vitamins to no later than dinner (the multi we take right now is 2x a day, plus I take extra GABA, MSM and I was doing a second dose of iodine at night, *right* before bedtime). If I switch multi's, then I can take the other things at dinner and only have my magnesium at night.

Thank you again Nichole for your help!


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Here are a few links that talk about adding particular vitamins or minerals to help with anxiety/panic attacks.

*Inositol*
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...5/ai_n6211941/


----------



## JaneS

MSM would keep me awake if I took at dinnertime, I need to do breakfast and lunch.


----------



## JaneS

Dera,

Vitamin C also may be crucial in allowing the iodine to be utilized in the body.

Quote:

*Evidence of Defective Cellular Oxidation and Organification of Iodide in a Female with Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue*

We previously evaluated one hypothyroid patient with pre-supplementation high urinary excretion of the iodine load.5 The patient, a 52-year-old woman (height 64 inches; weight 140 lbs.), had a past history of hyperthyroidism followed by hypothyroidism and had taken Synthroid 50 µg/day for five years. She developed side effects to orthoiodosupplementation and could tolerate only half a Lugol tablet/day (6.25 mg iodine/day) due to the detoxification of elevated bromide levels by the iodine supplementation.

She was evaluated with serial serum samples for 11 hours post-load, before and after three months on a sustained-release form of vitamin C at 3 g/day. Previtamin C loading test showed 90% of the [iodine] load excreted in the urine, but her baseline serum iodide level was only 0.016 mg/L, compared to the expected levels of 0.85-1.3 mg/L in those with whole body iodine sufficiency.

_[JaneS note: this means that her initial loading test showed her to be sufficient in iodine b/c she excreted 90%. But her blood testing revealed that the real problem was that she wasn't actually absorbing and utilizing the iodine. This is thought to be because of high body bromide burden.]_

Prior to intervention with vitamin C, a sharp peak of serum iodide at 32 mg/L at one hour post-load was followed by a rapid drop. This suggested that the gastrointestinal absorption of iodine was very efficient, but the transfer of the serum iodide to the target cells was not efficient. After three months on vitamin C, the same test was repeated. The data revealed a normal profile of serum inorganic iodide levels. Her baseline serum inorganic iodide level increased from 0.016 mg/L to 0.42 mg/L, and she retained 50% of the iodine load, compared to 10% of the load prior to vitamin C supplementation.

To our knowledge, this was the first case report of a patient with evidence of a very defective retention mechanism for iodine who was studied with serial serum iodide levels prior to and following intervention. A combination of orthoiodosupplementation in amounts of iodine the patients could tolerate and administration of the antioxidant vitamin C via the oral route improved the performance of the iodine retention mechanism.
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-20/IOD_20.htm


----------



## SeekerJayne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I think it's possible you might have autoimmune thyroid illness: Grave's or Hashimoto's. The latter is confirmed by antibodies in the blood. Not sure how Grave's is dx.

Dr. Brownstein treats his autoimmune patients as deficient in iodine and antioxidants. The B vitamins (ATP Co factors 100mg B2 and 500mg B3 1-3x per day) in addition to iodine are essential to treating. And vitamin C up to 10 grams per day he says. And magnesium. And salt flushes. I would be taking all of these w/o the iodine pending testing.

Selenium is also very important for autoimmune patients too I believe.

I think it's also possible from your symptoms such as headaches and others that you are bromide toxic.

What I would do in your case is get conventional blood testing done for thyroid including free T3 and free T4 as well as antibodies (I think there are two types). And the iodine loading/bromide testing. And read Brownstein's book.

I know how it is not to have the $ believe me.









So, the followup to my story is that after talking to my naturopath and also my iodine educated friend, so far it appears I have been having a major detox reaction. When I was taking the iodine, I was not following the protocol for support nutrients. After stopping the iodine supplementation, the only particularly troublesome symptom was that I felt too warm. Then, last Friday I drank homemade beet kvass for the first time and repeated through the weekend. I didn't make the connection, but I have since been told that beet kvass is a powerful liver detoxifier - that combined with the halides being kicked off the receptor sites without the nutrients to kick it out of the body seems to account for my experience. It was completely strange because I would go into what seemed like a hyper state for hours, and then like a light switch I would be fine and calm, and then the light switch would be flicked back on. I have been doing sea salt flushes, popping vit C like candy, and taking magnesium-baking soda- hydroden peroxide baths. Tonight I feel FABULOUS! And my husband says I look ten years younger. I don't know if I'm through it yet and if I'll rev up again into what feels like a hyper state, but each time I come down I seem even better. The naturopath talked to Dr. Brownstein's office and they said this sounded like detox reactions. I wasn't prepared. So, for those who are going to take iodine, look to this thread for all the important support nutrients! Thank you Jane and Nicole for your help!


----------



## SeekerJayne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
What else were you taking when you decided to supplement iodine? It is very important to support your detox pathways to help your body properly excrete the heavy metals that are in your body...

CLO
Magnesium
Vitamin C
And a good multi vitamin are a must (personal fave that I and many friends and family have used with success is one 'n' only)... but that's just with small doses of iodine, bigger doses require more...

Like more selenium, I take 300mcg a day
Chromium and Vanadium
higher dose of vitamin C (3000mg) and mag (500-1000mg)

I wasn't taking anything regularly, though I would take CLO and Concentrace trace minerals when I remembered, sometimes Natural Calm, and I would have homemade cultured food daily. I stopped taking the concentrace when I noticed bromide as the first ingredient.

Are brazil nuts sufficient for selenium? The Vit C has been a HUGE help as well as the salt flushes. I haven't heard much about chromium and vanadium - will have to google.

Thanks! You are right, the support nutrients are VERY important. Perhaps I could have avoided the unnatural and disturbing events of the last few days . . . or maybe one just shouldn't drink a cup of beet kvass daily and do a liver dump while detoxing halides! : )


----------



## sprouthead

I have a question about magnesium supping.. I took that magnesium taste test where I mix the epsom salt with water and it tasted thick and bitter... What does that mean? Because doesn't bitter mean sufficient, but thick means severely deficient?


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SeekerJayne* 

Are brazil nuts sufficient for selenium? The Vit C has been a HUGE help as well as the salt flushes. I haven't heard much about chromium and vanadium - will have to google.

Thanks! You are right, the support nutrients are VERY important. Perhaps I could have avoided the unnatural and disturbing events of the last few days . . . or maybe one just shouldn't drink a cup of beet kvass daily and do a liver dump while detoxing halides! : )

Well, I'm glad you got the answers you needed, it sounds as though you may be more toxic than others and sticking to a low dose for a month or so would be beneficial to you... as well as getting all the other good stuff









I posted in an earlier post the importance of inositol with a link for that and vanadium, didn't have time to get the one for chromium, but those two are also very important. It's also cheap, $5 for 3 months, cant beat it. The selenium is $4 for 3 months and it a tiny capsule so I don't know if that has anything to do with why people don't want to be taking more, I manage to pop all my pills in one gulp with the exception to the vit c because the one I have right now is the cheap brand and it's not coated, man that one hurts going down if I'm not careful...

Brazil nuts are apparently great for selenium... never looked it up before but here's what I found
Brazil nuts (3-4, 1/2 oz)** 272mcg

Based on this one a day so long as it is at least half an ounce is perfect.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sprouthead* 
I have a question about magnesium supping.. I took that magnesium taste test where I mix the epsom salt with water and it tasted thick and bitter... What does that mean? Because doesn't bitter mean sufficient, but thick means severely deficient?

I have never heard of the magnesium taste test... interesting but YUCK at least I can imagine, I remember taking just a spoonful in some water to get my magnesium, yeah that didn't last long I went and got some empty capsules and filled a couple and took that...

Most people are deficient in magnesium, I hate to get personal but bm's should be occurring every day at least even 2-3 times can be normal. They should be soft and barely formed. It takes you gut some time to get used to the new way of eliminating... actually here is an article on what to look for in your bm's...


----------



## Pattyla

I have not read this thread, yet. But I'm sure someone on here has the answer to my question.

The nutritionist I just went to put me on iodine (iodoral) and told me to get some lugols liquid for my girls. I have found 5% and 2%. Which one do I want that will have two drops equal to my one pill? (12.5 mg IIRC)

Thanks!


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I have not read this thread, yet. But I'm sure someone on here has the answer to my question.

The nutritionist I just went to put me on iodine (iodoral) and told me to get some lugols liquid for my girls. I have found 5% and 2%. Which one do I want that will have two drops equal to my one pill? (12.5 mg IIRC)

Thanks!

That would be the 5% solution... is there a reason why you are looking for the higher dose? Just curious as ds is 5 and I currently only give him 3mg a day. You may want to read a few previous posts as well because if you are going to begin supping iodine you need to make sure you are getting your other vitamins and minerals as well with the emphasis on vitamin c, magnesium, selenium, chromium, vanadium, cod live oil...


----------



## Pattyla

I'm looking for that because I assumed it was the standard and the nutritionist told me to give my 5 year old 2 drops. She originally told me to give my 1 year old the same but then remembered I am nursing and thought that (what she gets through bm) would be plenty. I'm on one pill for now and watching how the baby (and I) react. If all is going well after a week or so I'm to add another pill in the AM.

I can e-mail her and ask which strength she meant for me to give DD. I would also like to switch to it myself. The pills are $$$! I'm fine with doing drops.

Oh and I already am working on detoxing. Selenium, CLO, Mag is an issue we are working on lots of bone broths for now, The other 3 I'll have to look into. Haven't found an easy to take (pill) really good for me C so I tend to take it when I'm sick only.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Oh and I already am working on detoxing. Selenium, CLO, *Mag is an issue we are working on lots of bone broths for now*, The other 3 I'll have to look into. Haven't found an easy to take (pill) really good for me C so I tend to take it when I'm sick only.

I know that bone broth is often sited as a source of magnesium, but if you look at the actual percentage of bone that is magnesium, it's actually really low a 1:40 ratio with calcium is one number I read. I'm trying to find a textbook reference, but nak so not having much luck... The other side of that is that calcium and magnesium will compete for absorption. So I see bone broth as a great source of calcium, but I don't count it for magnesium at all.


----------



## Pattyla

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I know that bone broth is often sited as a source of magnesium, but if you look at the actual percentage of bone that is magnesium, it's actually really low a 1:40 ratio with calcium is one number I read. I'm trying to find a textbook reference, but nak so not having much luck... The other side of that is that calcium and magnesium will compete for absorption. So I see bone broth as a great source of calcium, but I don't count it for magnesium at all.

Well no matter if it is a source of mag or not I can only take about 200 mg of mag in any form (I've tried lots) before it triggers a real problem for me. Yet I have muscle spasms in my feet and my teeth hurt, a sign for me that I need more cal and mag (I'm getting 1300 cal in an MCHC supplement). I've started soaking my feet in epsom salts and ginger at bedtime and that is helping somewhat. I'm also eating soup 2-3 meals a day and a cup of broth at any meals that aren't soup. Not exactly summer fare but I've got to stop feeling like my body is falling apart. I digress.
The nutritionist I went to felt confident that my body would let me know if I needed more mag on the iodine (constipation) and then I could add it in.


----------



## chlobo

Wow. I need 1200-1400mg Mag to get close to bowel tolerance. Weird that we're all so different.


----------



## sprouthead

Can someone recommend where they got their iodine from? I was thinking of getting lugol's due to price, but I'm not sure which "Lugol's" i should be getting.. Has anyone had any success on the other liquid form of iodine? (can't remember the name from the first post- Iosol or something like that?)

Thanks!


----------



## JTA Mom

I just received my supplement order. I got a multi, Selenium (200mcg), Magnesium 500mg), Siberian Ginseng, Chromium with Vanadium, Vit C (1gram) & Cod liver oil (1000mg), and some liquid iodine (150mcg per 2 drops). Yay!

Now my only question is if it is okay to take all of these at the same time? Or are there any that compete with absorption & that I should split?

Oh, and I am going to get some Iodoral (12.5mg tabs) in a while. I want to taper up the dosage since I'm pretty sure I get almost no iodine in my diet. My question is, should I start at 150 mcg or should I start higher? Also, for tapering up, should I do it ever few days, every week, etc?

Thanks!

Ami


----------



## JaneS

Patty,

I'm very concerned about those amounts for your kids. I posted only last week on Dr. Brownstein's recs for kids. For my 50 lb DS it would be 5.5mg which is not quite a full drop of 5% Lugol's.

Sprouthead,

I find that Iosol does indeed do something! I haven't found much opinion on it, it is less strength than Lugol's so maybe that is why the major iodine researchers don't bother with it. But certainly helpful for those of us who cannot tolerate the higher doses.

I got my Lugol's at a compounding pharmacy in my area, it was almost 2 years ago and I didn't need a px, I think you can get 1oz of 5% solution (which is 6.25mg per drop) without one.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
I just received my supplement order. I got a multi, Selenium (200mcg), Magnesium 500mg), Siberian Ginseng, Chromium with Vanadium, Vit C (1gram) & Cod liver oil (1000mg), and some liquid iodine (150mcg per 2 drops). Yay!

Now my only question is if it is okay to take all of these at the same time? Or are there any that compete with absorption & that I should split?

Oh, and I am going to get some Iodoral (12.5mg tabs) in a while. I want to taper up the dosage since I'm pretty sure I get almost no iodine in my diet. My question is, should I start at 150 mcg or should I start higher? Also, for tapering up, should I do it ever few days, every week, etc?

Thanks!

Ami

Hey Ami,

I take all the things you have listed together in the morning, I haven't had any issues with it. What brand ginseng did you get? I only take two capsules per day...

You can start at the 150mcg and increase it a couple drops every day or every other day and see how you feel. With your first dose you may feel a giddy sort of hyper and then you may also have a hot flash that lasts about 30min. to an hour, this is normal, you body is simply readjusting to the iodine, it hasn't had it in a pure form and is sorta "surprised" to be getting it. I had this as did my husband and my brother in law, my mother and sister however did not...

I doubt you will feel too much difference in the two drops or the steady increase, but we are here to help if you have any questions. Stick with the drops until you buy the iodoral (btw I got mine off of ebay for $33 which included shipping for the 180 pill count).


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
Hey Ami,

I take all the things you have listed together in the morning, I haven't had any issues with it. What brand ginseng did you get? I only take two capsules per day...

You can start at the 150mcg and increase it a couple drops every day or every other day and see how you feel. With your first dose you may feel a giddy sort of hyper and then you may also have a hot flash that lasts about 30min. to an hour, this is normal, you body is simply readjusting to the iodine, it hasn't had it in a pure form and is sorta "surprised" to be getting it. I had this as did my husband and my brother in law, my mother and sister however did not...

I doubt you will feel too much difference in the two drops or the steady increase, but we are here to help if you have any questions. Stick with the drops until you buy the iodoral (btw I got mine off of ebay for $33 which included shipping for the 180 pill count).

Hi,
ive been taking the liquid dulse for a week(3 drops) haven't felt any different I will take 4 tomorrow. I wanted to start slow because I haven't recieved my multi or magnesium yet.
The dulse is 225mcg per 4 drop that's not very much should i take more then the 4 drops daily?
P.S. I'm BF a 1 year old too


----------



## JTA Mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
Hey Ami,

I take all the things you have listed together in the morning, I haven't had any issues with it. What brand ginseng did you get? I only take two capsules per day...

I doubt you will feel too much difference in the two drops or the steady increase, but we are here to help if you have any questions. Stick with the drops until you buy the iodoral (btw I got mine off of ebay for $33 which included shipping for the 180 pill count).

I got Nature's Herbs Siberian Ginseng. Each capsule contains 400mg of it.

I took a double dose to start today, so 300mcg. Except for a bit of a tingle on my tongue for 30 min, I haven't noticed anything else. I figured that 150 mcg was a bit too small. No adverse effects, so good here.

Oh, and I took one One & Only yesterday (alone) & today, in combo with the rest of the stuff. My pee is bright yellow. Why would it be bright yellow? What nutrient in the multi is doing that? Have you experienced this?









Ami


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Well no matter if it is a source of mag or not I can only take about 200 mg of mag in any form (I've tried lots) before it triggers a real problem for me. Yet I have muscle spasms in my feet and my teeth hurt, a sign for me that I need more cal and mag (I'm getting 1300 cal in an MCHC supplement). I've started soaking my feet in epsom salts and ginger at bedtime and that is helping somewhat. I'm also eating soup 2-3 meals a day and a cup of broth at any meals that aren't soup. Not exactly summer fare but I've got to stop feeling like my body is falling apart. I digress.
The nutritionist I went to felt confident that my body would let me know if I needed more mag on the iodine (constipation) and then I could add it in.

Some folks need to add taurine in to be able to absorb more magnesium. Here's a long, long page on magnesium, and a few folks in Allergies have a bit of experience with taurine, if you want to search a bit there.

http://george-eby-research.com/html/...n-anxiety.html


----------



## ChristSavesAll

My pee has always been bright yellow after taking vitamins, I read somewhere it's the b vitamins... I'd have to look again but it's not harmful, just a daily reminder you've taken your vits... lol at least it is to me, I sometimes forget but remember when my pee isn't bright yellow... Oh yeah that's right, I didn't take them yet.


----------



## neverdoingitagain

So I got some Lugol's today. The local pharmacist ordered it in, but we're both confused. (Yeah, thats right..the PHARMACIST is confused







) The bottle I got says Lugol's iodine solution. Underneath says (strong iodine solution) No % anywhere. When we looked at the page regarding the Lugol's soltion it said (approx. can't remember exactly) 100ml= 97-100g of iodine. Thats 100% or 10% ?







like I said, both the pharmacist and I were confused. Anyone able to figure it out? If its 10%, what the heck do I do with it? Can I still use it?


----------



## SeekerJayne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SeekerJayne* 
So, the followup to my story is that after talking to my naturopath and also my iodine educated friend, so far it appears I have been having a major detox reaction. When I was taking the iodine, I was not following the protocol for support nutrients. After stopping the iodine supplementation, the only particularly troublesome symptom was that I felt too warm. Then, last Friday I drank homemade beet kvass for the first time and repeated through the weekend. I didn't make the connection, but I have since been told that beet kvass is a powerful liver detoxifier - that combined with the halides being kicked off the receptor sites without the nutrients to kick it out of the body seems to account for my experience. It was completely strange because I would go into what seemed like a hyper state for hours, and then like a light switch I would be fine and calm, and then the light switch would be flicked back on. I have been doing sea salt flushes, popping vit C like candy, and taking magnesium-baking soda- hydroden peroxide baths. Tonight I feel FABULOUS! And my husband says I look ten years younger. I don't know if I'm through it yet and if I'll rev up again into what feels like a hyper state, but each time I come down I seem even better. The naturopath talked to Dr. Brownstein's office and they said this sounded like detox reactions. I wasn't prepared. So, for those who are going to take iodine, look to this thread for all the important support nutrients! Thank you Jane and Nicole for your help!

Not out of the woods yet. I've been experiencing hyperthyroid symptoms for a week with only a small break. I'm going to try my best to beg the mercy of the iodine knowledgeable doctors to advise the course from here.


----------



## Dera

Hopefully I didn't miss this being mentioned. I read last week in a silly article and one of my friends just heard that over 1000 mcg can cause hyperthyroidism. If this isn't true, and it doesn't seem to be, where is this information coming from?


----------



## Pattyla

I've now read the whole thread.
Thought I would post my experience.
I started the iodine pills on Wed. Nutritionist told me to take them at bedtime so that is what I am doing. (might change if it seems like they start to keep me up per peoples experiences on here.) I'm to take 1 pill for a week and then increase to 2 if I don't see any adverse effects. I'm also taking two Standard Process supplements Thytrophin PMG and Mammary PMG (both my thyroid and breasts tested low for iodine) I take those 3x a day at meals. After the first dose of the sp stuff I noticed a huge change. I also have adrenal fatigue and usually feel more energetic and clearer headed late in the evening than I do all day. Well I felt super sleepy. Barely could function sleepy. I took the iodine at bedtime and didn't feel any different from that but I was so sleepy and yet couldn't get to sleep (story of my life but I think it has as much to do with the two children in my bed as my own imbalances). I dragged through the next few days, drinking extra coffee and taking it easy in any way that I could. Sat I tried a salt flush and felt much better for a few hours. Didn't notice anything else. AF arrived on Sat and I attributed my belly cramps to that. Took some aleve (only pain killer w/o corn in it) at bedtime and woke up with a very upset tummy. Finally mid afternoon I figured out that was wrong with me. I am constipated! I've been having a major problem with the opposite for over a year. So I took some mag. 1 tsp natural calm. Had one bm. Still obviously lots of stuff in there. Usually that much natural calm would have cleaned me out. I took another 1sp natural calm. Then I took 2g sodium ascorbate. Then 1200 mg C Then another tsp natural calm plus my evening pills that includes some mag (200mg ish IIRC) Then 1800mg C and I just took another 1800 mg C. Nothin. I'm hoping I go before bed.







Oh I did a couple of those salt flushes tonight too.

I think the baby is constipated too.







: She's just getting it through my bm. Hmmm... I had less broth today than I have been getting and only one pickle for probiotics. I tend to let DH run the food show on the weekends. More Saurkraut needed stat! I got a whole case of bubbies on last Tues and I think we have gone through 4 jars already. I found a cheap small fridge on craigs list for overflow fridge stuff. In the summer esp our fridge is always bursting with veggies from our CSA etc.

I've got my 5 year old on half an idoral. She seems to be doing ok on that. She has been detoxing for 2 years now and I'm excited about what this may do for her next. No constipation for her. Some increased irritability but very slight and it could be explained by some menu infractions too. Hopefully our liver life will arrive soon and help us deal with what we are setting free.

I've got a question. My friend had his thyroid removed 18 months ago or so IIRC (possibly less). He has been a wreck ever since. (was before too.) He was on synthroid with horrible results. Found a new doc to put him on Armour but then he recently went very hyper on that and had to cut back. He just got a 3 month leave of absence from his job to try to sort out his health. (The long list of stuff for him) Anyhow. I saw him today for the first time in a while and while he looked much better than the last time I had seen him he said he still isn't well. I'm wanting to send him some links to read about iodine. He is very open to this sort of thing both naturally and his desperation has gotten pretty deep. What links are good for his situation? I haven't had time to read them all and don't know when I will.

Thanks.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neverdoingitagain* 
So I got some Lugol's today. The local pharmacist ordered it in, but we're both confused. (Yeah, thats right..the PHARMACIST is confused







) The bottle I got says Lugol's iodine solution. Underneath says (strong iodine solution) No % anywhere. When we looked at the page regarding the Lugol's soltion it said (approx. can't remember exactly) 100ml= 97-100g of iodine. Thats 100% or 10% ?







like I said, both the pharmacist and I were confused. Anyone able to figure it out? If its 10%, what the heck do I do with it? Can I still use it?

I'd go back to where they ordered it from and get the recipe, it will tell you the percent. If 20 drops equals 1ml, then that conversion would mean each drop contains about 5mg. I think.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dera* 
Hopefully I didn't miss this being mentioned. I read last week in a silly article and one of my friends just heard that over 1000 mcg can cause hyperthyroidism. If this isn't true, and it doesn't seem to be, where is this information coming from?

Old studies that were mistaken in their conclusions.

See "The Iodine Debate" at the Townsend Letter for Doctors & Patients
http://www.townsendletter.com/AugSep...805.htm#debate


----------



## JaneS

Patty

Nice to see you!

First of all, I'm thrilled to hear your DD is taking it so well. She can do lots of celtic sea salt too.

1 tsp of Natural Calm is only 200mg right? I would do much more if you are having trouble. Guy Abraham, MD one of the Iodine Project researchers recommends 1200mg of magnesium per day! The increased toxins released by the iodine could indeed up your vit. C tolerance too, I'd just keep at it!

I would have your friend start at www.naturalthyroidchoices.com and if I were him I'd find an iodine knowledgable practitioner from list there or at http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/ipractitioners.html

The best site for iodine is Abraham's research at Optimox:
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

I admit I don't know thyroid meds in depth at all, but going hyper on Armour with no thyroid sounds really weird to me.


----------



## Pattyla

Hi Jane,
I think DD is doing a good job listening to her body. Today she ate sausage and saurkraut. Sausage for breakfast and saurkraut for lunch, snack and dinner. Oh and one banana. I opened the jar of saurkraut for lunch and she finished it off including all the juice at dinner time. (We all ate it but she sure put away a lot of it.) DD has always craved tons of salt and I don't tend to restrict her on that. I think I am understanding why now.

Did I mention that the nutritoinist I saw thinks that low iodine may be the lynch pin for all of our issues? I think W is doing so well with the iodine because she has already done so much detoxing. I'm sending off another hair test this week and I can't wait to see her latest levels. Her minerals were looking almost normal the last time she was tested 6 months ago. And her toxic metals were coming down.

So should I have any fears about the cabbage in the saurkraut and our thyroids?

I've got some beet kvass brewing and got my liver life today. That should help us some.

I have had a very tender tummy starting yesterday morning. I'm not sure what to blame. Could that be the iodine? I took some aleve Sat night for cramps and woke up with this pain in my tummy that won't go away. Hmmm...

Oh and I was using such small doses of the natural calm because usually that would be enough to send me running for the bathroom in a panic. I'm sipping 400 mg right now. Everything I took yesterday caught up with me today. I was glad I planned a day at home.

I'll pass that info on to my friend. I really feel like no one is seeing the whole picture for him and there is something going on that is being missed. Perhaps it is Iodine.


----------



## amcal

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Hi,
ive been taking the liquid dulse for a week(3 drops) haven't felt any different I will take 4 tomorrow. I wanted to start slow because I haven't recieved my multi or magnesium yet.
The dulse is 225mcg per 4 drop that's not very much should i take more then the 4 drops daily?
P.S. I'm BF a 1 year old too









I have the same question about the dulse. I take 4 drops as well.

I don't feel tremendously different other than my breasts don't hurt anymore!!! I've battled lumpy painful breasts for the past couple years. They hurt all the time - especially around my period. In fact, it's gotten to the point that I've had mammograms and follow ups with surgeons because of the lumps. I was told I had fibrocystic breast disease and that there was nothing that could be done.

I just noticed this morning that after a couple weeks of the dulse drops, the pain is gone!

I'm only doing the 4 drops but, I'm wondering if for over all health, is more necessary?


----------



## Dera

I know nobody with a lot of this knowledge has answered any questions about the dulse yet but I'm also taking it and I'm at like 50 drops now. I started about a month ago on just 4 drops. I've been feeling really great for about a week since starting zinc in addition to everything else. So hopefully somebody comes along with some great info about dulse. Nicole told me it was a great way to start out and work your way up to something with a higher concentration, like Lugol's or Iodoral. (I think, Nicole correct me if I'm wrong.)


----------



## Dera

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
I have the same question about the dulse. I take 4 drops as well.

I don't feel tremendously different other than my breasts don't hurt anymore!!! I've battled lumpy painful breasts for the past couple years. They hurt all the time - especially around my period. In fact, it's gotten to the point that I've had mammograms and follow ups with surgeons because of the lumps. I was told I had fibrocystic breast disease and that there was nothing that could be done.

I just noticed this morning that after a couple weeks of the dulse drops, the pain is gone!

I'm only doing the 4 drops but, I'm wondering if for over all health, is more necessary?

This is absolutely amazing.


----------



## amcal

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dera* 
This is absolutely amazing.

I know! I didn't even realize my breast pain was gone until this morning. I don't know how long it's been gone - I've been distracted with other health issues.

I will know more next week - it will be the week before my period and that's when the breast pain is usually at it's worst so, I'll report back but for now, the chronic pain is gone.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
I have the same question about the dulse. I take 4 drops as well.

I don't feel tremendously different other than my breasts don't hurt anymore!!! I've battled lumpy painful breasts for the past couple years. They hurt all the time - especially around my period. In fact, it's gotten to the point that I've had mammograms and follow ups with surgeons because of the lumps. I was told I had fibrocystic breast disease and that there was nothing that could be done.

I just noticed this morning that after a couple weeks of the dulse drops, the pain is gone!

I'm only doing the 4 drops but, I'm wondering if for over all health, is more necessary?

Oh good







Are you nursing too? That's great news for you!!!







: Hopefully someone knows


----------



## amcal

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Oh good







Are you nursing too? That's great news for you!!!







: Hopefully someone knows

I'm not nursing (my kids are 6 and 7) but, the fibrocystic breast disease started after they weaned 3 years ago and lasted continuously until, well, until I noticed it gone this morning


----------



## dannic

Hi everyone. I've been lurking in this thread quite a bit...it's all so fascinating! I haven't begun any iodine yet, because I just began some other things from my ND a few weeks ago and wanted to let them have a go of it. I've got an appt. scheduled for next week and I'd like to take some info with me to my ND.
So! Which of the many links in here should I print out for her?

I have fibrocystic breast tissue that began after weaning my last in Nov. after an awful thrush infection that I just haven't been able to completely kick (tho it's not painful --the thrush or cysts)

I'm really thinking that this may be another piece of the puzzle and I want to get my ND on board. Thanks!


----------



## mom61508

ok so today i upped my dose of the liquid dulse to 5 drops and immediately after drinking it i noticed a tingling sensation in my thyroid that lasted only a few seconds. Does that mean anything? I haven't noticed anything else different


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Did I mention that the nutritoinist I saw thinks that low iodine may be the lynch pin for all of our issues? I think W is doing so well with the iodine because she has already done so much detoxing. I'm sending off another hair test this week and I can't wait to see her latest levels. Her minerals were looking almost normal the last time she was tested 6 months ago. And her toxic metals were coming down.

So should I have any fears about the cabbage in the saurkraut and our thyroids?

I've got some beet kvass brewing and got my liver life today. That should help us some.

I have had a very tender tummy starting yesterday morning. I'm not sure what to blame. Could that be the iodine? I took some aleve Sat night for cramps and woke up with this pain in my tummy that won't go away. Hmmm...

No I don't think I understood that but it is very interesting!! I really haven't had the time to look into it more beyond Brownstein's case study on iodine detoxing metals.

Well, the cabbage is a goitrogen (blocks iodine uptake) as much as soy is. The entire brassica family is. And sadly the process of making sauerkraut does NOT deactivate the goitrogens. Only boiling for 30 mins:

*Bearers of the Cross: Crucifers in the Context of Traditional Diets and Modern Science*
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...crucifers.html

I wouldn't eat them everyday but together WITH iodine I do not think a low to moderate amount as a condiment would hurt. Several times a day not so much. Interesting considering you mentioned your DD listening to her body. I wonder if it's doing a little equilibrium thing with the sauerkraut. Like a candida sufferer craving sugar?

Yes iodine can cause stomach pain (so can Aleve). But the Iodoral is supposed to eliminate that (it's coated) compared to Lugol's. Are you taking with food?


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
Hi everyone. I've been lurking in this thread quite a bit...it's all so fascinating! I haven't begun any iodine yet, because I just began some other things from my ND a few weeks ago and wanted to let them have a go of it. I've got an appt. scheduled for next week and I'd like to take some info with me to my ND.
So! Which of the many links in here should I print out for her?

I have fibrocystic breast tissue that began after weaning my last in Nov. after an awful thrush infection that I just haven't been able to completely kick (tho it's not painful --the thrush or cysts)

I'm really thinking that this may be another piece of the puzzle and I want to get my ND on board. Thanks!









I would do these:
*
Iodine: The Universal Nutrient*
Guy Abraham, MD
(good short background)
http://www.encognitive.com/files/Iod...20nutrient.pdf

*Clinical Experience with Inorganic Non-radioactive Iodine/Iodide*
David Brownstein, M.D.
www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/pdfs/IOD09.pdf

Quote:

Maryann is a 45 year-old R.N. who has been a patient of mine for five years. I diagnosed Maryann with hypothyroidism five years ago and she was being treated with Armour Thyroid. Her hypothyroid conditions (fatigue, hair falling out, etc.) improved significantly with thyroid replacement and she was presently euthyroid. Maryann was also suffering from fibrocystic breast disease. "I was thinking about a mastectomy. I can't wear a bra because my breasts are so tender," she said. Maryann was told to avoid caffeine and go on birth control pills to treat the cystic breasts. She could not tolerate the birth control pills and received minimal improvement from dietary changes. When I checked an iodine loading test, Maryann was found to be very low on iodine (27% excretion-normal >90%). Within three weeks of taking 50mg of iodide/iodine (Iodoral®), all her breast symptoms were improved. She said, "My pain level declined immediately and after three weeks, it was 70% better. I can now wear a bra without pain." Two months later, a physical exam revealed no signs of fibrocystic breasts and she was now completely pain free. "I am ecstatic. I can now exercise and I feel just wonderful," Maryann said.

*Iodine/iodide supplementation has markedly improved the course of illness in fibrocystic breasts in almost all of my patients with fibrocystic breast disease. In addition those with breast cancer also improve.* Nodules and fibrous changes of the breasts significantly improve in a short time period. I believe that the epidemic of breast disease we are seeing in this country is due, in no small part, to iodine deficiency.
*
Orthoiodosupplementation in a primary care practice*
Jorge D. Flechas, M.D.
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-10/IOD_10.htm

Quote:

Breast tissue has an affinity for iodine . Iodine deficiency causes fibrocystic breast disease (FBD) with nodules, cyst enlargement, pain and scar tissue . FBD can be characterized by a lumpy painful breast, generally in reproductive aged women. Initially, this syndrome occurs in the premenstrual phase of a cycle or involves the whole cycle. These symptoms can also occur in menopausal women on estrogen therapy. In 1928 an autopsy series reported a three percent incidence of FBD, whereas in 1973 an autopsy report quoted an 89% incidence . A review by the American Academy of Pathology gives a minimum incidence for FBD of 50% but suggests that 80% of North American women are afflicted with the syndrome during their reproductive lifetime .

Ghent et al in 1993, presented data showing that iodine works great to reduce (FBD)(14)...

In my practice, I have over the last four years worked with some 200 women who have FDB. On average, patients come to my office practice with a mean Ghent score of 15.7 and an average age of 41.4 years. On 12.5 mg of iodine, the score after six months will drop from a mean of score 15 down to about 12.8. On 25 mg, the score will drop down to a mean of score is 10.2. On 37.5 mg the score was 8.6. When we prescribe 50 mg of Iodoral (4 tablets) for 3 to 6 months, the average patient will have a score of 7.6 with a p-value less than 0.001 compared to baseline scores. After a full year at 50 mg iodine per day (4 tablets of Iodoral), the patients mean score dropped to 3.8. We saw many patients with a score of zero, meaning no evidence of FBD. We often see patients' breast pain disappear in a 1 to 30 days at a dose of 50 mg.
Give ND this link
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml
to read more, and definitely recommend Brownstein's book, 2009, 4th edition.


----------



## JaneS

To all the dulse questioners, it's hard to answer about this nutrient... all of the clinical experience (and average intake of healthiest Japanese) is at over 200 times 225mcg.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
To all the dulse questioners, it's hard to answer about this nutrient... all of the clinical experience (and average intake of healthiest Japanese) is at over 200 times 225mcg.

I know but I feel more comfortable going slow








Any reason why when i upped my dose to 2 drops my thyroid tingled for a few seconds?


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## dannic

Thanks, Jane!!!


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## Pattyla

Why would the salt water flushes be giving me a headache and what can I do about it?

I have found that they give me a ton of energy but the last two times doing one has started a headache that I did not have before I did it.

In general I am feeling extremely run down and really struggling physically to keep up with my two children. The nutritionist thinks this is from the two supplements she put me on (it started within a couple of hours of starting them just over a week ago.) I'm not sure how much longer I can keep going this exhausted.


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## linguistmama

I'm considering starting these nutrients for thyroid health, but was wondering what the best forms and brands of B-complex, Zinc with copper and L-Tyrosine would be? I take Blue Ice COL and the difference between it and the Nordic Naturals I was taking is considerable!


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
I'm considering starting these nutrients for thyroid health, but was wondering what the best forms and brands of B-complex, Zinc with copper and L-Tyrosine would be? I take Blue Ice COL and the difference between it and the Nordic Naturals I was taking is considerable!

What differences did you notice with the clo? I'm currently taking nordic naturals but was wanting to try the blue ice. What flavor do you have?


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## linguistmama

I don't think they make the one I got anymore, it was non fermented cinnamon tingle. It still tasted like COL though LOL, but not too strong a taste. I have double the energy that I had with Nordic Naturals. I tried the Blue Ice on Pat's (WuWei) advice. I'll have to choose a new Blue Ice type, probably this one or capsules since I want dd to take it too. I also like that it has high vitamin butter oil. It ended up costing about the same as NN capsules since the Blue Ice is a 2-3 month supply. Green Pastures says that their COL is tested for metals and not heated, just fermented so nutrients are maximized instead of destroyed.


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## Pattyla

We take the blue ice fermented. I found the cinnamon to be too strong a flavor and just placed an order for plain. I also ordered the chocolate for my DD. We'll see...

www.building-health.com has the best prices I have found.


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## JTA Mom

So, it's week 1 of me taking the whole regimen (per Nichole's system). I think it's working. I've had an INCREDIBLY stressful week. First, DH got papers on Friday that told him that the property owners are suing the business owners he works for for back-taxes & want them out ASAP. Still no idea how that's going to work out a week later.









On top of that, my aunt passed away suddenly on Sunday night from a pulmonary embolism. She was like a 2nd mother to me. Also, she didn't have any life insurance, no will, or anything. She also left behind 3 kids. I've got a few threads on this board about the entire thing. I've been running around non-stop since Monday, figuring out the most inexpensive funeral services, figuring out how to save the house my cousins live in, probate, etc etc etc. I also haven't been eating well at all. I just feel so nauseated all the time. Sleep has been so so too. The thing is, that it's Friday and while I do feel tired, I'm not the bone tired I was a week ago. It's also taken me until yesterday evening before I became snappy with ds, which isn't good, but with the amount of stress I'm under, is AMAZING.

I'm up to 18 drops of the iodine (so 2.2mg). Dh is still at 450mcg, & he says he isn't feeling that much different.

Ami


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## Pattyla

My mind is a bit boggled by all I'm reading now.

Is there a connection between iodine and yeast? My 16 month old was dxed with systemic yeast today (basically a rash all over her body) and put on a month of diflucan (no way could I get nystatin into her) to see if it helps. Could this be connected to the iodine stuff?

I got some of the 2% stuff today and I am wondering if I should give her some or paint some on her skin or just figure she is getting enough from my bm.


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## Panserbjorne

there certainly is. If iodine mobilizes mercury, and mercury contributes to yeast overgrowth by binding to biotin receptors then lack of iodine allow yeast to thrive.


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## deditus

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
My mind is a bit boggled by all I'm reading now.

Is there a connection between iodine and yeast? My 16 month old was dxed with systemic yeast today (basically a rash all over her body) and put on a month of diflucan (no way could I get nystatin into her) to see if it helps. Could this be connected to the iodine stuff?

I got some of the 2% stuff today and I am wondering if I should give her some or paint some on her skin or just figure she is getting enough from my bm.


The tiniest bit of iodine has helped my dd with intestinal yeast more than anything else - I give her scrapings off an Iodoral tab in a bit of honey.


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## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 

Is there a connection between iodine and yeast? My 16 month old was dxed with systemic yeast today (basically a rash all over her body) and put on a month of diflucan (no way could I get nystatin into her) to see if it helps. Could this be connected to the iodine stuff?


If you are nursing and taking iodine, you could be detoxing into your breastmilk.

Do you have mercury fillings? Doing heavy gut healing? That also could be dumping toxins into your breastmilk.

Pat


----------



## Pattyla

I am nursing and taking iodine. She has been struggling with yeast since long before I started the iodine though and all the symptoms that led to the DX have been there for 2+ months. I've been on iodine for 3 weeks.

I do have mercury fillings. My biggest mistake with her was getting convinced by the local bio dentist to get 2 replaced when she was 6 months old (decay under fillings causing me constant pain).

I can't wait till she weans to address my own health issues. My 5 year old is also nursing and also hasn't shown any new issues since starting iodine but she gets it directly as well.

I'm just wondering how much iodine would even be in my bm if I am very deficient? I assume I will be soaking it up with my thyroid and breasts and little will get into my bm.

I am doing salt flushes and have no need to do vitamin C flushes as long as I take my magnesium.









I've got a metalic taste in my mouth today. Not sure if it is because it is very hot and I'm not drinking enough to pee much or what. I last increased my iodine about a week ago.


----------



## linguistmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
If you are nursing and taking iodine, you could be detoxing into your breastmilk.

Do you have mercury fillings? Doing heavy gut healing? That also could be dumping toxins into your breastmilk.

Pat

How much of an issue is this if you don't have mercury fillings?


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## WuWei

Gut healing all comes back to inadequate nutrients for detoxing (due to improper digestion), basically. So, if you are needing gut healing, your detox pathways are probably impaired. I'd focus on those first, when nursing. Which means adequate nutrients, which requires adequate stomach acid.

With impaired detox pathways, you have increased toxin loads. If you have inadequate nutrients, baby may have impaired detox pathways. The iodine releases halides--- which need to be detoxed (by you and baby). I'd be inclined to supplement baby (with the necessary nutrients), if I were supplementing myself (and needing gut healing). Variable amounts of supplemented iodine are present in breastmilk, however. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12530582

Although, I'm not inclined to supplement iodine, other than food sources. And I'd include nutrient dense whole food alternatives for baby, gradually as baby matures towards 1 year old.

Pat


----------



## Pattyla

I've got almost too much stomach acid per my test.

My dd is 16 months old.

I think I'm going ot try to supplement her directly with some iodine to be sure she is getting some. I have some of the 2% solution. I think 1 drop a day to start.


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## momster

OK, I've read through the whole thread now. At first, as I was reading, I was pretty convinced I would pursue iodine testing and supplementing. But after calling a few labs and finding out that even though I'm a HCP, I can't order the iodine test to New York, I gave up on that route. Anyone know about ordering the tests to NY?

And, like Pat, I really prefer to go the whole foods route and reading some of the side effects/detoxing symptoms folks have had, I'm wondering why getting some very good quality seaweed, such as Larch Hansen's, wouldn't do the trick more gently. I did try 12.5mg Iodoral tables three days in a row and didn't notice anything better or worse, but I know I often don't absorb tablets well. I rarely ever notice anything positive from tablet.

So, Larch says he tells people to take 3-5gm kelp or alaria per day, but maybe that's not enough for detoxing. Anyone done calculations on seaweed?

Any others out there determined to get enough iodine with whole food and what other foods are you using to support the possible detox?

I'm not totally opposed to the iodine yet, just feel I'd rather fully investigate and try out using seaweek before I jump ship.


----------



## Panserbjorne

you could have it sent to someone else and they could send it on to you.







Just sayin'.


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## Chakra

I have hachimotos (spelling i know) and my thyroid levels are mild hypo.

So is the iodine a good or bad idea? I read you should not take it with antibodies present.


----------



## linguistmama

I'm curious to know if eating whole foods would be a more gentle detox and if it would make a difference for nursing moms or not too? And does anyone recommend a website that sells kelp that has been tested for metals and toxins? The health food stores in my area don't carry it. I'm still deciding exactly what I'll do since it's so complicated and I don't want to make things worse!


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## dannic

So my appt with the nd went really well! She was already familiar with Dr's Abraham and Brownstein and agreed that iodine would be a good thing to try out!

So, where's the best place to get Iodoral online? (preferably with free shipping)

Sorry if that's been asked before...I don't have time to sift this awesome thread today and wanted to order right away...

I'm awaiting the arrival of the Iodine book as well--any day!







:


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## tanyalynn

Danni, I've ordered from a couple different places, the last time was ebay, but I just look around for the best overall price, sometimes it's better buying 3 bottles than 1.

Chakra--have you ever read about selenium supplementation and thyroid antibody levels? There's at least one study out there that showed selenium supplementation lowered antibody levels, some of the people got down to the normal range, and they were using a moderate dosage, and not even a great form. l-selenomethionine or brazil nuts would both probably (IMO) be better. If you wanted to look into that before iodine (which I'm not very knowledgeable about).

Quote:

How much of an issue is this if you don't have mercury fillings?
Linguistmama, it's a little more nuanced than just whether you have amalgam fillings. Some of us with amalgam fillings have a lot of difficulty excreting the mercury that's released from the fillings, but other people do a whole lot better. And there are occasional people who've had an unusual route of exposure for one of several heavy metals and who accumulated a lot that way--not as typical, but not impossible. And that seems somewhat separate from people who've accumulated a lot of halides and who will have more difficulty with iodine. I have problems with the mercury, but for reasons I'm not completely clear on, I don't think I have a big halide problem. I didn't have any symptoms starting Iodoral, for instance, and I didn't know diddly-squat about supporting my detox pathways. So some of this is guess-and-check.


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## Chakra

Tanya-

My nd put me on selenium. I'm taking 200 mg (or mcg not sure which one) a day.

I'm just so worried about taking hormones. He gave me some thyroid meds that I have not taken yet.

I'm going to ask him about iodine when I see him in a couple weeks. I'm worried hes either not going to know much about it or say its bad...

Should I start some myself?


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## Theloose

On the salt flushes... Is there an explanation somewhere of what's going on in your body?

The salt water needs to be warm, right? Does it need to be water, or would broth work? And the water afterward, again, how important is it that it's water? How about herbal infusions instead?


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chakra* 
Tanya-

My nd put me on selenium. I'm taking 200 mg (or mcg not sure which one) a day.

I'm just so worried about taking hormones. He gave me some thyroid meds that I have not taken yet.

I'm going to ask him about iodine when I see him in a couple weeks. I'm worried hes either not going to know much about it or say its bad...

Should I start some myself?

If you've got somebody who listens well and seems knowledgeable about nutrients, I'd work with them. Ask his opinion, see what he thinks. Worst case, he knows less than you, in which case you can just do things on your own, but maybe he's thinking it's a good idea just a bit further down the line.


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## dannic

So I got my iodoral on Monday (FAST shipping!) from breast cancer choices and am taking 12.5 mgs with no effect. I am also taking Nicole's list as well as some adrenal/ thyroid support and yeast stuff. What is the protocal for raising the dosage--like, how long would you wait to raise it if you aren't noticing any difference whatsoever?
And could somebody explain a salt flush? (and possibly how you actually ingest 1 1/2 teaspoons of salt a day?!?)









I finished Dr Brownstein's book today! Am wishing I had the thyroid one as well...









Are any of you supplementing your children? I am wondering if this wouldn't be good as my whole family (grandparents, aunts, cousins, mom, sisters, ect) all have thyroid issues as do I. I also have fibrocystic breast tissue as of November last year...

Thanks! So glad I hooked onto this thread!


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## AnnieMarie

Just starting to read this, so much to get through. Thanks so much Jane.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Yeah, I tend to research things to death too, but sometimes I get impatient and learn more by just doing. I've already decided that for us, iodine while nursing is a path I want to go down, and it's time to start down that path. So now I'm trying to figure out the details. I obviously want to do it as safely as possible, but haven't found anyone IRL that I can turn to. So I'm talking it out here







(some people like to learn by example, right?)

Are you saying your approach is to put in place all the iodine support nutrients, then add iodine? How do I know if my pathways are supported enough? Can I just assume that since I know what the pathways are and what the nutrients are, I'll be able to support with if/when it comes up? How urgent of a thing is it? If it takes me a few days/a week/a month to realize that something is blocked, have I done major harm? I'm thinking my major toxin is bromine, and not mercury, if it matters.

If I start dd on the protocol before me so that she's better able to process the junk I throw at her, how long before are we talking? Should she be all the way on maintenance before I start? Is just a day or two long enough? I know it's all very individual, but I'm looking for a ballpark.

I am also still nursing my (almost) 1yoDD and 3yoDS and would hate to do anything that may not be good for them. From what I can gather though the iodine can only do them good, i am mainly worried about toxins going into the breastmilk. I have some amalgam fillings which I will remove once I stop nursing. My oldest DS has some learing issues and I plan to put him on iodine too as I read on Dr MErcola's site that this can help.
Who are the other nursing moms on here? How have you found your little ones reacting to this?

Jane - thanks again for all the info on here







:


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## ChristSavesAll

Hey ladies!

My internet got shut off so I haven't been able to get on til today... YAY!!!







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
ok so today i upped my dose of the liquid dulse to 5 drops and immediately after drinking it i noticed a tingling sensation in my thyroid that lasted only a few seconds. Does that mean anything? I haven't noticed anything else different

Slowly upping your dose is what its all about, so go ahead and up it when you are ready to, one drop at a time, 2 drops, 10 drops, it's up to you. I began squirting it in each glass I drank during the day after a week or so of upping my drops.

When I first began taking the liquid dulse I too noticed this sort of tingling sensation in my throat (thyroid area) it felt as though it was getting a bit swollen, it worried me a bit but I knew I needed it so I pushed on, after a week or two (can't remember exactly) that feeling passed and it was smooth sailing.

I don't have an exact explanation as of yet but my own opinion on it is that your thyroid is searching for more iodine, it tends to swell when it needs more because it tries harder and harder to filter your blood to find more. That extra drop may have gotten your thyroid interested to see how much more it can get... like I said, it went away after a short time so no worries.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
I'm not nursing (my kids are 6 and 7) but, the fibrocystic breast disease started after they weaned 3 years ago and lasted continuously until, well, until I noticed it gone this morning









I am so happy for you!







: My mom and sister have had the same experience and were both very pleased that they no longer had pain! Oh and neither of them have pain while on their period either!

I was very happy to have been able to drop a whole cup size! That was while I was bfing dd! Dropped the sixty pounds too with no dieting or exercising, seriously simple weightloss!

One other thing... My sister's asthma has decreased significantly, actually it's pretty much gone when she takes her iodine. She stopped taking it for about a week and her asthma came back full force as well as being totally exhausted and having achey joints.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
Are any of you supplementing your children? I am wondering if this wouldn't be good as my whole family (grandparents, aunts, cousins, mom, sisters, ect) all have thyroid issues as do I. I also have fibrocystic breast tissue as of November last year...

I've given a little iodine to dd here and there (less than 1mg/day, and not for any length of time). Once I can figure out how to get her to take the supporting nutrients (especially mag), then I want to start supping her before myself. But until then, we're both off it completely because I don't think she's ready to handle it. That is, unless I cave and do the loading test for me as an experiment, just to see what happens


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## moneca

Jane - Thanks for starting this thread. Funny, I don't visit MDC much anymore, but when I do look at the thread it's always one with all the same detox mamas.

I had mild fibrocystic breasts, cold extrems, am basal oral temp of 95-96.5, and a bit of weight around the middle. I started taking 50 mg of lugols for 6 months without any improvement in hypo symptoms or detox symptoms. I gave up after 6 months and just took 12.5 per day for another 6 months.

I read in an Adele Davis book that if one does not get enough vitamin E the thyroid will become scarred and cannot absorb iodine even if it is in plentiful supply. I thought I was doing well with an avacado and EVOO. I decided to try it and began 1 TBSP of spectrum wheat germ oil and went back up to my 50 mg of iodine. Well, had three days of wicked detox fatigue and headache. I've always have plenty of energy. The morning after my first day of the E and 50mg iodine I took an oral temp before getting out of bed. That day and every day since it has been 97.5-99.0. Pretty amazing.

Jane - I agree that the fatigue from the bromide detox can be mind numbing. After starting the E and 50 mg I have taken anywhere between 1/2 to 4 tsp of sea salt per day. I don't take it until at least 4 hours after my iodine dose. I guage how much to take by how tired I'm feeling and how the skin on my forehead looks. Wrinkles and fatigue means I need more salt. I take 1 tsp at a time. I wonder if you'd feel better if you took more than 1 1/2 tsp per day?

I was down to only needing 1/2 tsp salt per day when my NAET/acupuncturist confirmed that I had a very high B vitamin requirement. I had been taking 6 liver caps, daily egg, bee pollen, 4 TBSP wheat germ, and TF diet. I was still testing deficient for B vitamins. I started some food source B complex and the bromide detox symptoms (meaning extreme fatigue) came back full force requiring 3 weeks of 3-4 tsp of salt per day. I've always been uncomfortable taking the ATP cofactors since it only gives large amounts of two of the B vitamins. I read once that giving only one or a few of the Bs would cause deficiencies in the rest which made sense to me.

I still haven't seen improvements in my hypo symptoms other than the increased basal temps. I just took axillary temps after reading this thread. I was consistently 97.8 except for days 2 and 3 of my period. I dropped to 97.6 and 97.7, so I guess I still have a bit of work to do there.

My cysts haven't improved, but someone on the NT forum told me that their cysts did not shrink until all their detox symptoms were gone. That gives me hope that I still just need to stick with this.

Lots of good info on this thread!


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## moneca

Our whole family has used Concentrace for years to supply our magnesium. We needed to buy a new bottle a couple weeks ago so I decided to try natural calm instead. It seems like everyone I know uses that brand and I called the company to find it had no synthetics. It is completely derived from sea salt. I had no problems or issues and loved the sour flavor.

After 3 days of taking the natural calm my 5yo dd (who is EXTREMELY sensitive to mercury) began to stutter slightly. I didn't pay a whole lot of attention until the third day I noticed it getting worse. I couldn't figure out what was going on. Years ago I had used those Japanese detox foot pads on her and she had suddenly developed awful stuttering which continued for a month. At that point I realized that the pads must be pulling the toxins out of cells, but not escorting the mercury out of the body. I believed it was raising her serum mercury level causing the stuttering. I started her on zeolite drops to clear the mercury. The stuttering stopped completely in 3-4 days never to return.

This time she also developed all her old mercury symptoms of weepy eczema behind her ears (yeast), insomnia, and stomach pain/delayed gastric emptying/vomiting. I started her zeolite again and her symptoms improved slightly, but did not resolve even after several days zeolite. I finally figured out that I had started her on the natural calm a few days before the mercury symptoms started.

I stopped the product and called the company. I talked to Kristen who was willing to give me their testing results. Natural Calm had 1 microgram of mercury per serving (3 tsp 600 mg mag). She happened to have the testing results for the concentrace because they add it to one of their products. Concentrace had 0.01 mcg of mercury per serving (1/8 tsp 62.5 mg mag). So, you'd need 10x that concentrace serving to have the same amount of magnesium as the natural calm serving. That would mean 10x the .01 mcg which would be 0.1mcg mercury to get 600 mg magnesium per concentrace as opposed to 1 mcg mercury to get 600 mg magnesium from natural calm.

Our acupuncturist/NAET practitioner confirmed that dd's mercury symptoms had been caused by mercury in the natural calm. She is doing well now. I love zeolite!

Interesting thing is that dd has taken the concentrace, sea salt, HVCLO each day and weekly salmon/anchovies for years without any issue. It was just the inclusion of the natural calm that brought on the stuttering.

Anyway, I didn't notice any difference, but I'm not sensitive to anything and dd is VERY sensitive to mercury. We've all returned to the concentrace. I just wanted to pass this information along since there are a number of mamas on here trying to rid themselves of mercury.


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## Pattyla

Thought I would update here. I'm hanging out at 25 mg iodine a day. My symptoms are mild and I'm wondering if I should stick with this or up my dose another pill. Main symptom is I can increase my mag.







: I have been needing more mag for a long time but getting above 200 mg or 2x a day caused major problems.







Now I am constipated and slowly increasing my mag to resolve that. Not sure if that is a problem or a solution. I think I'll wait till I figure out the right mag dose for this iodine dose before increasing.

I just ordered Dr Ron's multi and his cal/mag. I really seem to do well with mchc cal so hopefully this will be a good one for me. I went ahead and ordered iodine from him too cause I got free shipping. Not sure if it is the cheapest source but it was significantly cheaper than my nutritionist is selling it for. I'm getting MSM too.

What is the current thought on selenium dosage? I have been taking 200 mcg for quite a while.


----------



## moneca

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I just ordered Dr Ron's multi and his cal/mag.

Last I checked his multi contained ALA which will open the cell walls to let mercury flow to area of lesser concentration and is used in the Cutler chelation protocol. Not a good idea if you have amalgams or had them removed, but haven't chelated yet.


----------



## tanyalynn

I think in general supplementing 200mcg is considered reasonable, I went higher for a while cause I knew I had significant deficiencies, but balancing it with other nutrients, if you're going to do that, would be important. Not like I knew enough at the time to do it well, but I did it, and I don't think I had any negative effects from it.

Moneca







: always good to see you!

Holy moley, I almost missed your 2nd response about the Natural Calm.









Danni, I answered in the other thread, but will include it here too, since this is the appropriate place. As background, I didn't have any problems starting the Iodorol, I've stayed at 1 pill just so I don't have to fiddle with it while I do other stuff. But since I had no issues, even while not doing any other nutritional support, I've felt fine giving some to the kids, I decided on 3 tablets per week split between them, ground up with their multi-mineral supp, so that works out to a little over 2mg per kid per day (35 and 45 lbs). Haven't noticed any reaction.


----------



## Pattyla

It does have ALA but I thought that in small doses it didn't chelate. Hmmmm.... I do have amalgams still.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca* 
Last I checked his multi contained ALA which will open the cell walls to let mercury flow to area of lesser concentration and is used in the Cutler chelation protocol. Not a good idea if you have amalgams or had them removed, but haven't chelated yet.

Oh, I'd forgotten! And not a good idea IMO while nursing, if you are (to Patty).


----------



## tanyalynn

Patty, folks with serious mercury issues usually start with doses around 10mg, sometimes less. I'm more than a year out from getting my amalgams out and I'm just recently taking 100mg per dose, and I had to _work_ to get here.

Folks who detoxify well, like my DH, would be fine (though I don't think it's great while nursing for anyone) but I didn't realize I had serious issues til I was in really bad shape. It's hard to distinguish til pretty late in the game.


----------



## Pattyla

Crap.

Guess I get to give those to DH.

Sigh.

Sometimes I just get really angry about all this stupid metal in my mouth. I know the dentist who put it there thought he was doing the right thing but it still makes me mad that I get to spend the rest of my life figuring out how to recover from it (and help my precious babies recover from it too.)







:

I'm also just tired of the long list of different things I take and keeping it straight. The idea of taking one thing to cover a bunch of bases was really, really appealing.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca* 
Jane - I agree that the fatigue from the bromide detox can be mind numbing. After starting the E and 50 mg I have taken anywhere between 1/2 to 4 tsp of sea salt per day. I don't take it until at least 4 hours after my iodine dose. I guage how much to take by how tired I'm feeling and how the skin on my forehead looks. Wrinkles and fatigue means I need more salt. I take 1 tsp at a time. I wonder if you'd feel better if you took more than 1 1/2 tsp per day?

Can you go into the details of how you do 4 tsp of salt? Is it all dissolved? Do you chase with plain water? Is there a magic ratio of salt to water, or do you just do the salt then drink to thirst?


----------



## tanyalynn

Patty, if you're looking for a good-quality multivitamin, consider Perque2 Life Guard, and if you want a mineral supp, Perque Bone Guard Forte 20. You'll have to search around a bit to find a place to buy them online, they're mostly sold through HCPs, but there are places to get them. Good quality, I think good ratios of nutrients--far from the 100% RDA of everything, good forms of nutrients too.


----------



## AnnieMarie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Crap.

Guess I get to give those to DH.

Sigh.

Sometimes I just get really angry about all this stupid metal in my mouth. I know the dentist who put it there thought he was doing the right thing but it still makes me mad that I get to spend the rest of my life figuring out how to recover from it (and help my precious babies recover from it too.)







:

I'm also just tired of the long list of different things I take and keeping it straight. The idea of taking one thing to cover a bunch of bases was really, really appealing.

Patty I feel just the same way, about the amalgams and trying to keep the list of supplements I have been taking straight...

Now I just read about ALA







:














I have been taking that on and off throughout my pregnancies and while breastfeeding in the form of flaxseed oil (600-1000mg a day), so now I wonder if this hasn't caused some of the issues my kids are having - nothing major - yet - but 3yo DS is a very tantrumy child and prone to low blood sugar and 1yo DD is prone to constipation and has already had a bout of thrush.

Would it help if I gave ALA to the kids? If I give it to them along with a muti-vit, C, selenium and Mag? Not sure how I will get them to take it, any suggestions?

WOW I am suffering from major info overload after trying to read this while thread and links mentioned







:


----------



## tanyalynn

Ack, that's a different ALA!

The heavy metal mobilizing ALA is alpha lipoic acid.

The precursor to DHA is alpha linolenic acid, a type of omega-3 fatty acid, which is the flaxseed type.

Totally different, I promise, but it's horrible that they have the same acronym and both acrynyms are widely used.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AnnieMarie* 
Patty I feel just the same way, about the amalgams and trying to keep the list of supplements I have been taking straight...

Now I just read about ALA







:














I have been taking that on and off throughout my pregnancies and while breastfeeding in the form of flaxseed oil (600-1000mg a day), so now I wonder if this hasn't caused some of the issues my kids are having - nothing major - yet - but 3yo DS is a very tantrumy child and prone to low blood sugar and 1yo DD is prone to constipation and has already had a bout of thrush.

Would it help if I gave ALA to the kids? If I give it to them along with a muti-vit, C, selenium and Mag? Not sure how I will get them to take it, any suggestions?

WOW I am suffering from major info overload after trying to read this while thread and links mentioned







:

Tanya will clear it up when she reads this since I don't remember the details, but ALA the omega 3 fatty acid is *not* the same ALA that can move metals. There need to be better abbreviations...


----------



## tanyalynn

Shannon


----------



## Theloose

just saw that... glad we're on the same page


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 

Moneca







: always good to see you!

Holy moley, I almost missed your 2nd response about the Natural Calm.









Holy moley doesn't cover it. Holy crap.









Pat


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AnnieMarie* 

Now I just read about ALA







:














I have been taking that on and off throughout my pregnancies and while breastfeeding in the form of flaxseed oil (600-1000mg a day),

*Flax seed oil contains 8 grams (8000 mg) of ALA per tablespoon.*
_Flax seed oil contains an omega-3 called alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), which is one of two fatty acids that the body needs and cannot make for itself. Several *other sources of ALA do exist, most notably walnuts and hemp seed.* Omega-3s are needed by every cell in the body. Among other things, an ample supply helps ensure that cell membranes stay flexible so that cells can get nutrients easily._
http://www.supplementquality.com/eff...l_flaxoil.html

_Humans have a limited ability to convert ALA to DHA: Less than 1 percent of it is turned into DHA (although women convert it better than men do). Western diets limit their ability to convert it even more because they eat too many omega-6 fats from corn and soybean oils (Americans average 18 grams a day of omega-6 fat from these oils).
_

_The trouble is that these omega-6 fatty acids compete with ALA for conversion. So, for instance, *if a person consumed an ounce of walnuts per day, they'd get approximately 2,500 mg of ALA*. But it would, at best, convert to just 25 mg of DHA, a small fraction of the DHA necessary (600 mg) for optimal health._
http://www.crohns.net/page/C/PROD/No...ls_EFA/NNL5008

I'm eating too many walnuts.









I learn something new every day.









Pat


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Ack, that's a different ALA!

The heavy metal mobilizing ALA is alpha lipoic acid.

The precursor to DHA is alpha linolenic acid, a type of omega-3 fatty acid, which is the flaxseed type.

Totally different, I promise, but it's horrible that they have the same acronym and both acrynyms are widely used.

Damn, I need to read ahead.









Pat


----------



## AnnieMarie

Oh gosh







, thank heavens I have been freaking out and couldnt understand how this could be as nowhere did I read any warnings about that - and I read everything I could find. I tend to speed read and missed the difference between the two, but yeah you would think they would have different abbreviations!

Thanks for the heads-up at least I can now relax and carry on taking flax seed oil









Now if I could just find a way to get the kids to take the other supps


----------



## AnnieMarie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
*Flax seed oil contains 8 grams (8000 mg) of ALA per tablespoon.*
_Flax seed oil contains an omega-3 called alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), which is one of two fatty acids that the body needs and cannot make for itself. Several *other sources of ALA do exist, most notably walnuts and hemp seed.* Omega-3s are needed by every cell in the body. Among other things, an ample supply helps ensure that cell membranes stay flexible so that cells can get nutrients easily._
http://www.supplementquality.com/eff...l_flaxoil.html

_Humans have a limited ability to convert ALA to DHA: Less than 1 percent of it is turned into DHA (although women convert it better than men do). Western diets limit their ability to convert it even more because they eat too many omega-6 fats from corn and soybean oils (Americans average 18 grams a day of omega-6 fat from these oils).
_

_The trouble is that these omega-6 fatty acids compete with ALA for conversion. So, for instance, *if a person consumed an ounce of walnuts per day, they'd get approximately 2,500 mg of ALA*. But it would, at best, convert to just 25 mg of DHA, a small fraction of the DHA necessary (600 mg) for optimal health._
http://www.crohns.net/page/C/PROD/No...ls_EFA/NNL5008

I'm eating too many walnuts.









I learn something new every day.









Pat

mmm I love walnuts, don't eat enough of them though. Nuts are ridiculously expensive in SA








I guess this is going OT somewhat, but the 1000mg tabs we are taking daily give 600mg of ALA is hopelessly too little. Yet the directions say take no more than 3 caps. It is late at night here and I am NAK and too tired to work out how many caps it would take to get enough - a lot LOL. I need to see what other sources we can get omega 3 from. I basically want to get us into properly nourished state before we start Iodine so as to hopefully minimise any detox effects, specially for the little ones.

How do you get toddlers to take magnesium? Could I just scrape some off into food? How much would one give? I was hoping to get some cal/mag drops but can't seem to find anything like that. Has anyone tried using tissue salts for this?


----------



## moneca

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Can you go into the details of how you do 4 tsp of salt? Is it all dissolved? Do you chase with plain water? Is there a magic ratio of salt to water, or do you just do the salt then drink to thirst?

No magic formula. I just use what works for me. I have 12 oz water and add 1 tsp of Redmonds real sea salt. I drink that and ususally have to add about 1/3 glass more water when I get to the bottom oz because it gets too salty.


----------



## dannic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca* 
No magic formula. I just use what works for me. I have 12 oz water and add 1 tsp of Redmonds real sea salt. I drink that and ususally have to add about 1/3 glass more water when I get to the bottom oz because it gets too salty.

I am just in awe! I have been trying to up my salt intake to 1 1/2 tsps and almost gag myself to death to get that!!!























Thanks for the heads up on the Mag Calm as well--maybe that was why dd was reacting to it!







:


----------



## mama2leila

I've been chewing on all the info here and in the other thread for a few days, and I feel like it's really going to be right for our family.

I've had so many signs of iodine deficiency and had no idea what was going on! Intense PPD that started when my son was about 8 months old, after we moved from a house in the country (on a well!) to a house in town with chlorinated, fluoridated water. A lot of fatigue, irritability, general malaise, dry and flimsy nails, adrenal fatigue (I do a support tea that helps, but I think I'm treating the symptom, not the cause), very reactive skin (rashes from gardening, heat, and stress), irregular menstruation, and cystic ovaries in the last 8 months, low basal temps (96.x before ovulation, 97.8ish after). I just had several of my amalgam fillings replaced with composite, so my load my be higher now (I'm working on some gentle chelation with kombucha, no more than 2 oz a day because my son is still nursing and already has elevated lead levels, though they are coming down, I don't want to add to his toxic load too quickly for him to handle it). My children share some of the symptoms with my, and have other ones: my son has been constipated regularly since starting solids, and has always had an off digestion (very farty baby, spitty, and generally uncomfortable); my dd has some pretty significant behavioral issues going on, violence and lack of respect for other people's bodies and space, somewhat manic behavior (wild, then weepy), we don't do any processed foods (well, on a regular basis), and no food dyes or preservatives, and very limited soy (and only in traditional forms, like nama shoyu and miso, though we usually use miso made from other fermented grains, the sushi restaurant is one place we can eat out safely). (my dd has beta thalassemia in addition to having labial adhesions, a duplicated kidney, and some very odd and rare heart issues). My son has had no vax, and my daughter only had the DTaP (at 18months, had a gut reaction, and has had no more vax). Both my parents had thyroid issues: dad hyperthyroid when he was younger, my mom had her thyroid removed for cancer about 15 years ago, she also had a rare form of breast cancer. Her mom died of heart problems (WPW) My dad has a twitchy eye nerve (just below the eye, makes his lid twitch, I wonder if that doesn't have something to do with iodine def. I know one of his uncles had bulging eyes and later had retinal cancer). Both my brothers are on the spectrum (ADHD and Asperger's/Chronic Depression).

I was being regularly checked by an ND for thyroid levels when I lived in WA, so I know I don't have Hashimoto's, so that's a good thing to know, but now that we are in IA, we are going to have to go it alone (no NDs allowed here, unfortunately). We will keep up our chiropractic appointments to help keep our pathways open in that way at least.

I'm a bit bummed to read that cabbage is going to need to be reduced (and I JUST made a fresh batch of pink sauerkraut!), but we like our other fermented veggies and our non-dairy kefir (I have dairy grains, but I have yet to successfully make dairy kefir! bah), and homemade yogurt.

So, the only supplement we currently use is fermented CLO/butter oil (green pasture), but I'm thinking of adding a whole load for the next few months while we try to normalize our levels and clear out toxins. I generally agree with WuWei, and another poster, (sorry, I can't remember whom, Bjorn something...): I'm normally a big proponent of whole foods for vitamin intake, but at least for me, I think I need to get to a normal level before I can revert to my traditional foods with medicinal teas.

So, I'm wondering, we were planning on TTC starting in August, do you all think I should wait a bit to start TTC? I've been blessed with getting pregnant quickly when we TTC (knock on wood), so I don't expect it to take too long. I don't want to put a fetus at risk, but I also don't want to put them at risk for iodine deficiency and a poorly working thyroid.

We're also working on switching to a TF diet, adding more and more all the time (soaked grains, bone broths, and I FINALLY found a source for raw goat milk here, haven't been able to find someone willing to sell raw cow, even though we live just miles away from Amish country). We eat about 50% raw foods. My son has caries, which I've decided NOT to have filled after reading Ramiel Nagel's book. I'm trying to balance this with eating locally, and fresh foods (my kids would love bananas, but I'm really uncomfortable with the ethylene gas...). Frankly, all the diet changes are somewhat overwhelming, but I feel like they are really for the best.

So, I'm ordering Logol's 5%, the one'n'only women's, we eat brazil nuts (ground over foods) so selenium is covered, but I'm wondering what the best vit c is and magnesium (I'm concerned about the Natural Calm one and mercury). What about epsom salt baths?

Anyway, tips, encouragement are welcome.


----------



## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca* 
Our whole family has used Concentrace for years to supply our magnesium. We needed to buy a new bottle a couple weeks ago so I decided to try natural calm instead. It seems like everyone I know uses that brand and I called the company to find it had no synthetics. It is completely derived from sea salt. I had no problems or issues and loved the sour flavor.

After 3 days of taking the natural calm my 5yo dd (who is EXTREMELY sensitive to mercury) began to stutter slightly. I didn't pay a whole lot of attention until the third day I noticed it getting worse. I couldn't figure out what was going on. Years ago I had used those Japanese detox foot pads on her and she had suddenly developed awful stuttering which continued for a month. At that point I realized that the pads must be pulling the toxins out of cells, but not escorting the mercury out of the body. I believed it was raising her serum mercury level causing the stuttering. I started her on zeolite drops to clear the mercury. The stuttering stopped completely in 3-4 days never to return.

This time she also developed all her old mercury symptoms of weepy eczema behind her ears (yeast), insomnia, and stomach pain/delayed gastric emptying/vomiting. I started her zeolite again and her symptoms improved slightly, but did not resolve even after several days zeolite. I finally figured out that I had started her on the natural calm a few days before the mercury symptoms started.

I stopped the product and called the company. I talked to Kristen who was willing to give me their testing results. *Natural Calm had 1 microgram of mercury per serving (3 tsp 600 mg mag)*. She happened to have the testing results for the concentrace because they add it to one of their products. Concentrace had 0.01 mcg of mercury per serving (1/8 tsp 62.5 mg mag). So, you'd need 10x that concentrace serving to have the same amount of magnesium as the natural calm serving. That would mean 10x the .01 mcg which would be 0.1mcg mercury to get 600 mg magnesium per concentrace as opposed to 1 mcg mercury to get 600 mg magnesium from natural calm.

Our acupuncturist/NAET practitioner confirmed that dd's mercury symptoms had been caused by mercury in the natural calm. She is doing well now. I love zeolite!

Interesting thing is that dd has taken the concentrace, sea salt, HVCLO each day and weekly salmon/anchovies for years without any issue. It was just the inclusion of the natural calm that brought on the stuttering.

Anyway, I didn't notice any difference, but I'm not sensitive to anything and dd is VERY sensitive to mercury. We've all returned to the concentrace. I just wanted to pass this information along since there are a number of mamas on here trying to rid themselves of mercury.

OMG. OMG. _OMG!_

I don't even know what to say. I have been recommending this to people forEVER. These had BETTER be very new results that they are going to either a. be passing on to their retailers/practitioners/consumers. or b. recalling and fixing the issue. I'm so sorry you had to go through this. That's just...there are no words.







:


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
OMG. OMG. _OMG!_

I don't even know what to say. I have been recommending this to people forEVER. These had BETTER be very new results that they are going to either a. be passing on to their retailers/practitioners/consumers. or b. recalling and fixing the issue. I'm so sorry you had to go through this. That's just...there are no words.







:

Yes, pretty scary. I just had bought a new bottle but needless to say I don't really want to take it.

Any recommendations on another mag product to take? I'm still concerned about copper. Do you think there is enough copper in Concentrace to worry about?


----------



## linguistmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Yes, pretty scary. I just had bought a new bottle but needless to say I don't really want to take it.

Any recommendations on another mag product to take? I'm still concerned about copper. Do you think there is enough copper in Concentrace to worry about?

Oh, Lovely!







: Thanks for letting us know







I'll be interested to see what else would be a good replacement.


----------



## Dera

I have a question about dosage. I'm taking Lugol's now, 3 drops mixed in with some OJ a couple times a week. The bottle says to take 2 drops a couple of times a week, what do you do? Daily? I have the 5%, how many drops could I work up to? I don't have any detox symptoms at all, does this mean that I could use more? Is there a chance that I didn't need to detox at all?

Anyway, thanks!


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dera* 
I have a question about dosage. I'm taking Lugol's now, 3 drops mixed in with some OJ a couple times a week. The bottle says to take 2 drops a couple of times a week, what do you do? Daily? I have the 5%, how many drops could I work up to? I don't have any detox symptoms at all, does this mean that I could use more? Is there a chance that I didn't need to detox at all?

Anyway, thanks!

Lack of detox symptoms could be a number of reasons - lack of things to detox, poor absorption, poor symporter function, low dose... How much iodine/bromide/salt exposure have you had in the past?

I think 2 drops of 5% is 12.5mg? And iirc, Dr Brownstein typically starts at 50mg every day.
---------------------
I want to try the loading test. I'm guessing that I'm bromide toxic (though an unprovoked blood test showed undetectable levels?), and dd is 2.5, nursing plenty, and reacts to foods/my toxins. I'm choosing to do this on my own rather than pay $$$ for the advice of a doc who does iodine but doesn't have experience with nursing moms. So now I'm debating with doing a loading test of 50mg vs 25mg. Okay, typing that out, it's clear that I want to do the 25mg. Doctor's Data, right? Or what's stopping me from doing the other test, just taking a smaller loading dose and then interpreting the results on my own?


----------



## Panserbjorne

On the phone with Natural Vitality right now....my rep knew nothing about this but has transferred me to Crystal (not Kristen in case anyone else wants to call.) The numbers she gave were from a much older test (she couldn't give me a year as they were so old she no longer had the records of lot numbers) and the new levels are apparently less. I am having the current report faxed to me. It isn't a huge number given what is in our food supply but there aren't many foods that you eat regularly enough to have this kind of consistent exposure.

I believe that if it has more than .5 mg of any known toxin present per serving in testing it is required to warn (via their label) that this is the case. This is well below that level. I am just thrown that your dd had such a clear reaction that you could pinpoint the NaturalCalm. I did tell Crystal the same thing. I have run it past some other practitioners that deal with heavy metals and environmental medicine and they had the same reaction. Noone's seen an issue with it...but your story has me a bit spooked.

I'll post when I see the report.


----------



## Pattyla

Doing more reading and kept running across the term Iodism. I finally looked it up and realized it is the same as bromide detox symptoms. It also explains the symptoms I am coping with.

Moneca- Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I'm doing more salt right now. It always makes me feel so much better but when I'm feeling terrible I have trouble even functioning and remembering to try the salt. It tastes really good to me so I'm sure my body needs it. My girls love drinking the sauerkraut juice and I wouldn't be surprised if it is largely that they are craving that salt. Win win. Except that the 1 year old wants to hold her own cup and then gets distracted by the fact that she is holding a liquid and liquids are always fun to put your hands into and pour out..... I digress. For some reason she won't drink it from a sippy cup.

Current symptoms if anyone is interested. Lump in my throat. Stinky pee. Extreme muscle weakness. BO. Diahrea again from (I assume) mag.

Are there any co-nutrients that I might be missing that work with mag? I get lots of calcium and a good amount of potassium


----------



## Pattyla

forgot a couple more symptoms. Extreme lethargy (not helped my my teething dd's disinclination to sleep alone) some head fog. And after lots of salt water the metalic taste in my mouth.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2leila* 

So, I'm wondering, we were planning on TTC starting in August, do you all think I should wait a bit to start TTC? I've been blessed with getting pregnant quickly when we TTC (knock on wood), so I don't expect it to take too long. I don't want to put a fetus at risk, but I also don't want to put them at risk for iodine deficiency and a poorly working thyroid.


Regarding TTC I would hold off on it, it takes time to detox a lot of the junk that is floating in your system. Also that fact that you have a family history of iodine deficiency (everything you've said falls right in line with it) you would only be passing on problems to the LO. You should spend at least 6 months detoxing (imho) if not longer before TTC again especially since dd and ds also show signs of deficiency. You should consider supping your whole family and getting you all healthy. Be sure to switch to fluoride free toothpaste, especially for ds, it really does have a big impact on your body when you are already deficient.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Doing more reading and kept running across the term Iodism. I finally looked it up and realized it is the same as bromide detox symptoms. It also explains the symptoms I am coping with.

Current symptoms if anyone is interested. Lump in my throat. Stinky pee. Extreme muscle weakness. BO. Diahrea again from (I assume) mag.

Are there any co-nutrients that I might be missing that work with mag? I get lots of calcium and a good amount of potassium


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
forgot a couple more symptoms. Extreme lethargy (not helped my my teething dd's disinclination to sleep alone) some head fog. And after lots of salt water the metalic taste in my mouth.

How often are you taking the iodine right now? I saw in a previous post that you were taking one per week? has that changed? What else are you taking supplement wise?

BTW I don't think there is any chance you are suffering from too much iodine. I'll have to look for the links but everything I've found says your body has the ability to flush out any iodine it doesnt need.

A lot of people don't realize how much bromide they've actually accumulated through the years, perhaps I will have to come up with a calculation... anyways, there is another iodine supplementer called bugs and bees or was it birds and bees... hmm anyways, she's been taking high doses (75mg starting 125mg I believe is wher she's at now) of iodine for over three years and is STILL detoxing bromide!!!


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Oh I wanted to post about one other thing.. lots of people are talking about craving salt, most people don't know it but that is the number one sign of adrenal fatigue as well as craving sweets. It is important to support your adrenals as well as trying to detox your body and support your thyroid.

You can do a simple test at home to test for adrenal fatigue..

Test #1: Pupil Contraction Test
Equipment required: chair, small flashlight, mirror, a watch (with a second hand), and a dark room.

In a darkened room, sit in a chair in front of a mirror. Holding the flashlight at the side of your head, shine it across one eye (not into the eye). Watch what happens in the mirror.

You should see your pupil contract immediately after the light hits the eye. The pupil will normally stay contracted, but if you have adrenal fatigue, the pupil won't be able to hold its contraction and will dilate. This dilation will take place within 2 minutes and last for about 30-45 seconds before it contracts again. Time how long the dilation lasts and record it along with the date. Retest monthly as it serves as an indicator of recovery.

Test #2: Blood Pressure Test
If your blood pressure drops when you stand up from a lying position, this almost always indicates low adrenals. This can be measured with a blood pressure gauge (a sphygmomanometer), which you can buy at a drug store. Make sure to purchase the type that doesn't require a stethoscope to take your blood pressure.

Make sure to do this test when you are well hydrated or it could give you a false positive. Lie down quietly for about 10 minutes, then take your blood pressure (while still lying down). Then stand up and measure your blood pressure immediately upon standing. Normally blood pressure will rise 10-20mmHg from standing up. If your blood pressure drops, you likely have adrenal fatigue. The more severe the drop, the more severe the adrenal fatigue.

Test #3: Sergent's White Line
This is only present in about 40% of people with Adrenal Fatigue, but if the test is positive, it's a "slam dunk" confirmation.

With a ballpoint pen, take the cap end of the pen and lightly stroke the skin on your abdomen, making a mark about 6" long. Within a few seconds, a line should appear. In a normal reaction, the mark is initially white, but reddens within a few seconds. If you have Adrenal Fatigue, the line will stay white for about 2 minutes and will also widen.

I personally tested myself with the flashlight and found that I was indeed suffering adrenal fatigue, not too surprising as any thyroid problem has an adrenal fatigue associated with it.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Salient facts to know about Potassium bromate

Physically, Potassium bromate is a white crystal or powder, with the following properties
Melting point: 350°C
Boiling point (decomposes): 370°C
Density: 3.27 g/cm³
Solubility in water, g/100 ml at 25°C: 7.5
It is a strongly oxidizing agent, reacting violently with combustible and reducing chemicals. It reacts violently with aluminum, disulphur dibromide, arsenic, carbon, copper, metal sulphides, phosphorus and sulfur, causing fire hazard and may cause explosion. It is designated a UN
Hazard Class: 5 status.6

Carnogenicity may be primary reason for banning potassium bromate, but it is a nuisance in many ways than one. When inhaled it is known to cause cough and sore throat; and when ingested, presenting features may include abdominal pain, diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, Kidney failure, hearing loss, as well as redness and pain both in the eye and skin. The substance may cause effects on the kidneys and central nervous system when ingested, resulting in renal failure, respiratory depression and hearing loss even though these effects may be delayed.

In general, exposure to potassium bromate in everyday life is through food products when it is used as additives in them. These include bread and bakery products like cakes, biscuits; here it is used as dough improver. In bread making, when yeast is added to bread, carbon (IV) oxide is released which is essential to cause the rising of the dough. Potassium bromate is required to ensure that carbon (IV) oxide released does not escape from the dough. It helps trap the carbon (IV), ensuring optimum utilization of the yeast. Furthermore, when bread is baked without potassium bromate, the carbon (IV) oxide produces awfully sized holes in the finished bread: small, large, pleomorphic et cetera; and since consumers love to have their bread appear appealing to the eyes, Potassium bromate becomes important to give fine and uniformly sized holes in bread and other bakery products.

Brewery products are another often overlooked, but important source of exposure to the cancer causing Potassium bromate. Worse still, unlike in bread and fish pastes where some of the potassium bromate are destroyed during processes like bulk fermentation, potassium bromate added to malt in beer- making is simply passed on to end consumers and this may be the underlying link between the well known alcohol-induced liver cirrhosis and primary liver cell carcinoma. For reasons of palatability potassium bromate has been added to fish paste products exported from Japan.7

Occupational exposure to potassium bromate may occur in production plants. Additionally, consumers may become exposed through patronizing some permanent-wave kits with potassium bromate neutralizer solutions. A number of cases of acute human intoxication with potassium bromate have been reported in patients after accidental ingestion or attempted suicide.

Quite a number of foods have a natural content of bromine, as Bromide (Br-) in the range 1-10 mg/kg and some foods contain considerably much more; for instance; flour itself has a natural bromine content of 2.4-7.7 mg/kg ,though this has not yet being considered a carcinogenic threat level so far.8

In general, carcinogens alter the cell cycle: the sequence of events by which cells grow and divide in a way that may favor increasingly disordered cell proliferation or failure of old cells to die. Long term toxicity and carcinogenicity studies of this bread improver strongly implicates its strongly oxidizing effects on genetic materials in the cells of the body. Potassium bromate has been shown by several groups of independent researchers over the years to cause cancers of the kidney. Also, it is a potent cause of thyroid cancers as well as cancers of the peritoneal mesothelium in laboratory experiments. The principal morphological form of cancer produced in the kidney presents the renal cell carcinoma picture. In a study by Kurokawa et al., in1982; Groups of 53 male and 53 female F-344 rats were given potassium bromate in drinking-water at concentrations of 0, 250 and 500 mg/litre for 110 weeks. A detailed histopathological examination was carried out, including 10-15 step serial sections on the kidneys. The mean survival time was shortest in males given 500 mg/litre potassium bromate (88.1 ± 18.1 weeks); the mean survival times of the other groups were between 101 and 104 weeks. Renal tubules in potassium bromate-treated rats showed various pathological changes; degenerative, necrotic and regenerative changes were very common. The incidence of tumors of the kidney, peritoneum and thyroid was statistically significantly higher in treated animals than in controls. It was concluded by the authors that potassium bromate was carcinogenic in Fisher 344 rats by oral administration.9 Special studies on mutagenicity have shown that Potassium bromate gives positive results for mutagenicity in the Ames test, chromosome aberration test and micronucleus test but gave negative results in the rec-assay and in a silk-worm assay. When potassium bromate is processed it breaks up releasing Br- which like the other halogens possess highly oxidizing properties and is believed that accumulation of Br- component of Potassium bromate forms the basis for its noxiousness.

Toxicological studies have convincingly shown that potassium bromate affects the nutritional quality of bread by degrading vitamins A1, B1, B2, E and niacin, the main vitamins available in bread. Also, studies have shown significant differences in essential fatty acid content of flour treated with bromate or in bread made from such flour. British Food Manufacturing Industries Research Association reported in 1980 that potassium bromate destroys folic acid in solution in 10 days.10


----------



## Pattyla

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
How often are you taking the iodine right now? I saw in a previous post that you were taking one per week? has that changed? What else are you taking supplement wise?

BTW I don't think there is any chance you are suffering from too much iodine. I'll have to look for the links but everything I've found says your body has the ability to flush out any iodine it doesnt need.

A lot of people don't realize how much bromide they've actually accumulated through the years, perhaps I will have to come up with a calculation... anyways, there is another iodine supplementer called bugs and bees or was it birds and bees... hmm anyways, she's been taking high doses (75mg starting 125mg I believe is wher she's at now) of iodine for over three years and is STILL detoxing bromide!!!

I am taking 25 mg daily right now. I didn't take any today because it is making me so miserable and I needed a day off. I'm wondering if I need to be on a lower dose so that I'll be able to function and still be kicking out the bromine, just more slowly. I don't think I'm getting too much iodine, but I am beginning to think I'm detoxing too fast and need to slow that down for my own sake and the sake of my nurslings. On the other hand I have that lump in my throat feeling and would dearly love for it to go away and you said I may need more iodine to do that. I'm meeting with the HCP who put me on the iodine tomorrow and I'll ask her what she thinks I should do.

I did just find out that my Dr's office has been putting people on iodine and doing the testing so I may explore this with him as well.


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## mama2leila

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
Regarding TTC I would hold off on it, it takes time to detox a lot of the junk that is floating in your system. Also that fact that you have a family history of iodine deficiency (everything you've said falls right in line with it) you would only be passing on problems to the LO. You should spend at least 6 months detoxing (imho) if not longer before TTC again especially since dd and ds also show signs of deficiency. You should consider supping your whole family and getting you all healthy. Be sure to switch to fluoride free toothpaste, especially for ds, it really does have a big impact on your body when you are already deficient.

Thanks. We don't use fluoride toothpaste (never have), so that is good. What dosage would you start at? I can't get blood work done here (I don't have an allopathic doc and there are no NDs here). Our Lugol's shipped today. Yay!

I've already started the salt flushes and vit C, since I'm doing kombucha now to help detox heavy metals. Both the kids are doing kombucha and C too. What kind of C do you use on your kids?


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## mama2leila

deleting repeat post


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## Pattyla

I give the baby the hylands vitamin C tablets. or just put a pile of sodium ascorbate on her tray. She will stick her fingers in it and lick them off.
ODD gets some in her multi. 400 mg IIRC. I give her emergen C or the sodium ascorbate if she needs/wants it.

Hmmm... what about using the sodium ascorbate for salt flushes/vitamin C loading? Will that kill two birds with one stone? I can't take as much as I can of just sea salt but it might not be a bad idea for some of it. What do you think?


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## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2leila* 

I've already started the salt flushes and vit C, since I'm doing kombucha now to help detox heavy metals. Both the kids are doing kombucha and C too. What kind of C do you use on your kids?

I'm no chelating expert. But, are you doing selenium, clay, zeolite to help bind the circulating mercury?

The salt flushes, help with detoxing halides, not heavy metals, per my understanding.

Kombucha kills off candida, but you need to repopulate the gut with beneficial microbials, or it just grows back AND you have released mercury into blood circulation to redeposit into brain, organs and breastmilk.

Pat


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## Pattyla

Oh and any thoughts on adrenal exhaustion and young children? I'm pretty sure my 5 year old has adrenal exhaustion and I'm not sure exactly what to do about it. I'm giving her the iodine. She gets a multi and some other things to help her vitamin and mineral levels and some amino acids (l-tryptophan, melatonin, l-theanine) And plenty of EFA's Is there something I'm missing? What about ginseng for her?
She's probably going to be dxed with ADHD soon as well as an anxiety disorder plus several other issues we tossed around to describe what we are dealing with psychologically with her. I think these are symptoms of her major imbalances but need some help coping while we get it all sorted out and corrected.


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## mama2leila

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
I'm no chelating expert. But, are you doing selenium, clay, zeolite to help bind the circulating mercury?

The salt flushes, help with detoxing halides, not heavy metals, per my understanding.

Kombucha kills off candida, but you need to repopulate the gut with beneficial microbials, or it just grows back AND you have released mercury into blood circulation to redeposit into brain, organs and breastmilk.

Pat

We drink lots of water kefir and have just added in daily dairy kefir smoothies, and take fermented veggies at least once a day. I haven't had issues with candida. We do selenium (brazil nuts), but not clay or zeolite. Is is betonite clay? How do you take it, and what is zeolite?


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## dannic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
On the phone with Natural Vitality right now....my rep knew nothing about this but has transferred me to Crystal (not Kristen in case anyone else wants to call.) The numbers she gave were from a much older test (she couldn't give me a year as they were so old she no longer had the records of lot numbers) and the new levels are apparently less. I am having the current report faxed to me. It isn't a huge number given what is in our food supply but there aren't many foods that you eat regularly enough to have this kind of consistent exposure.

I believe that if it has more than .5 mg of any known toxin present per serving in testing it is required to warn (via their label) that this is the case. This is well below that level. I am just thrown that your dd had such a clear reaction that you could pinpoint the NaturalCalm. I did tell Crystal the same thing. I have run it past some other practitioners that deal with heavy metals and environmental medicine and they had the same reaction. Noone's seen an issue with it...but your story has me a bit spooked.

I'll post when I see the report.

Yeah, I'm freaked out about this, too. I've stopped for now and am wondering if this isn't the reason my kinesiologist said that dd was reacting to the mag calm...darn! Just when you think you know something...







:

I have too almost brand new bottles of mag and cal/mag...I wonder if they would reimburse me? I'm probably out the money...


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## aris99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Doing more reading and kept running across the term Iodism. I finally looked it up and realized it is the same as bromide detox symptoms. It also explains the symptoms I am coping with.

Moneca- Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I'm doing more salt right now. It always makes me feel so much better but when I'm feeling terrible I have trouble even functioning and remembering to try the salt. It tastes really good to me so I'm sure my body needs it. My girls love drinking the sauerkraut juice and I wouldn't be surprised if it is largely that they are craving that salt. Win win. Except that the 1 year old wants to hold her own cup and then gets distracted by the fact that she is holding a liquid and liquids are always fun to put your hands into and pour out..... I digress. For some reason she won't drink it from a sippy cup.

Current symptoms if anyone is interested. Lump in my throat. Stinky pee. Extreme muscle weakness. BO. Diahrea again from (I assume) mag.

Are there any co-nutrients that I might be missing that work with mag? I get lots of calcium and a good amount of potassium

I've been trying to find a way to take a good amt of mag w/out the diarrhea...taurine and calcium didn't work for me. I dropped the peter gillham CALM...I can't seem to handle mag. citrate. I've been taking 600mg of magnesium glycinate w/out the intestinal symptoms!!! YAY!!! I also started making coconut water kefir and taking vitamineral green (good source of "soil" probiotics). I've been diarrhea free for 2 weeks and feeling great because the mag is working. Thought I'd pass on my experiences...I hope this might help!


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## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Oh and any thoughts on adrenal exhaustion and young children? I'm pretty sure my 5 year old has adrenal exhaustion and I'm not sure exactly what to do about it. I'm giving her the iodine. She gets a multi and some other things to help her vitamin and mineral levels and some amino acids (l-tryptophan, melatonin, l-theanine) And plenty of EFA's Is there something I'm missing? What about ginseng for her?
She's probably going to be dxed with ADHD soon as well as an anxiety disorder plus several other issues we tossed around to describe what we are dealing with psychologically with her. I think these are symptoms of her major imbalances but need some help coping while we get it all sorted out and corrected.

Can you tell me specifically what you dd is experiencing? Also what multi are you giving her, I'd like to know the amounts of each vitamin and mineral?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Hmmm... what about using the sodium ascorbate for salt flushes/vitamin C loading? Will that kill two birds with one stone? I can't take as much as I can of just sea salt but it might not be a bad idea for some of it. What do you think?

Perhaps there is a reason for taking the salt flushes in a way that you have to taste them... but has anyone thought about just taking some empty capsules and filling them with some salt? I took some epsom salts when I first started and I think that killed two birds with one stone as I got my mag and my salt... I know it killed my headaches and made things bearable for me til my detox symptoms subsided.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2leila* 
Thanks. We don't use fluoride toothpaste (never have), so that is good. What dosage would you start at? I can't get blood work done here (I don't have an allopathic doc and there are no NDs here). Our Lugol's shipped today. Yay!

I've already started the salt flushes and vit C, since I'm doing kombucha now to help detox heavy metals. Both the kids are doing kombucha and C too. What kind of C do you use on your kids?

Anytime you decide to take iodine, you really need to be sure to take all the supportive vitamins and minerals... really that is all of them it's the amounts that vary. I personally started on a liquid iodine supplement and built up my dose over a week or so and then started taking half an iodoral, the next day a whole one, a week later two and stayed there for a while until I bought the potassium iodide in pill form (32.5mg) more bang for you buck and it's easier to get too!

While taking the liquid, I had a multi (one 'n' only), Carlson's cod liver oil, siberian ginseng and I was taking the capsules of epsom salts (btw when I had diahrea from it I just dealt with it and kept it up even with the diahrea, it went away shortly after, at the time I figured it was my body detoxing...the stomach cramps were harder to get used to but I figured that is how we should feel but we are so used to the way it feels to be constipated that being normal feels weird at first, I was right cause it didn't bother me as much later on).

When I upped my dose to the iodoral I added in some magnesium, then shortly after, some vit c (started at 1000mg then upped that too), extra selenium and chromium vanadium... I think that was it... my multi already has high amounts of the vitamins and minerals, much higher than any other I've seen which is partly why I got it, the other part is it's allergen free... although I guess it has corn per pattlya's observation.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I am taking 25 mg daily right now. I didn't take any today because it is making me so miserable and I needed a day off. I'm wondering if I need to be on a lower dose so that I'll be able to function and still be kicking out the bromine, just more slowly. I don't think I'm getting too much iodine, but I am beginning to think I'm detoxing too fast and need to slow that down for my own sake and the sake of my nurslings. On the other hand I have that lump in my throat feeling and would dearly love for it to go away and you said I may need more iodine to do that. I'm meeting with the HCP who put me on the iodine tomorrow and I'll ask her what she thinks I should do.

I did just find out that my Dr's office has been putting people on iodine and doing the testing so I may explore this with him as well.

Are you feeling the lump right after taking it and it continues throughout the day or is it later in the day some time after taking the iodine?

You can drop down to 12.5 and see how you feel from that, it's all really about listening to your body and doing what feels best. Some people are more toxic than others and it takes time to undo the damage from all the previous years. As I've told other mommas, there's no need to rush your detox, unfortunately the metals will still be there waiting to be pushed out later. I think I minimized my detox effects by going slower. So take it slower and see if that helps, give it at least a week, the only thing I expect would change would be the lump in the throat feeling and the brassy taste... the brassy taste can be a sign of detoxing too fast so slowing down should help a lot. Also remember to be sure to get the supportive vitamins and minerals, you can cause more trouble for yourself by neglecting to get those.


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## aris99

I need a little help....I can't take mag citrate but I've been giving CALM to my kids. Small doses, like 1/2 teaspoon, 1 teaspoon etc. Can anyone tell me whether they are ingesting too much mercury? I am taking mag glycinate but this only seems to come in "cow" pills, no liquids so won't work for my kids. I am going to try (concentrace/trace minerals) ionic magnesium but really don't know anything about this form of magnesium...anyone know if this is a good product?


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## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
Perhaps there is a reason for taking the salt flushes in a way that you have to taste them... but has anyone thought about just taking some empty capsules and filling them with some salt? I took some epsom salts when I first started and I think that killed two birds with one stone as I got my mag and my salt... I know it killed my headaches and made things bearable for me til my detox symptoms subsided.

Epsom salts are just magnesium and sulfate, it's a salt in the broad sense because they're stuck together, but it's the chloride in regular salt (sodium chloride) that is helping with the bromide issue, is my understanding.

IME (to another poster, whom I forgot to quote







) although sodium ascorbate has a lot of sodium (depending on how much you take) it doesn't seem to be useful the way a spoon of salt is. I've read that the sodium from the sodium ascorbate is excreted fairly directly, and I have taken enough SA at times that I've gotten a lot of sodium, but it hasn't helped the way a comparable amount of sodium from regular salt (well, sea salt) has, at least for me. YMMV.


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## Brookesmom

Can't wait to see the latest report. I was about to buy some more Natural Calm today or tomorrow... (Should I be concerned about my other supplements now?)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 

I'll post when I see the report.


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## AnnieMarie

I just got some iodine, though there was no strength on the bottle. I e-mailed the company and got this response:
_Lugol's Iodine is an aqueous solution of Iodine and Potassium Iodide. It contains in 1 ml, 50 mg of Iodine and about 130 mg of total Iodine, free and combined._
I am nervous to start taking it myself because I dont want to be detoxing mercury into my breastmilk, but thought it would be a good idea to start my (almost) 13yo DS1 taking some and possibly 3yo DS2 and 1yo DD. Maybe just one drop for DS1 and half a drop for DS2 and DD each? i am planning to get zeolite powder, should I start giving that straight away or wait and see?

What is your opinion on iodine absorbing through the skin? I seem to have read conflicting opinions on this - sorry if you have posted this already - I have read so much that I cannot seem to recall what I read where anymore and couldn't find it on here now. From what I read it seemed as though that way your body would only take what it needs and there is less risk of detox side effects, or have I got it wrong? I did put a small amount on my inner arm yesterday and it dissappeared quite quickly.
I get crazy salt and sugar cravings so I would love to find a safe way to take it, would the zeolite help for that? OR would it still likely end up in my milk?

We are all taking all the supplements mentioned in this thread and several extras - feel like a junkie already from all the pills LOL


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## sprouthead

Sorry AnnieMarie that I don't have answers for your questions.

I came here to get input on iodoral dosing. i started the other day with 12.5 (1 pill- must be mgs? i dunno..) and I haven't felt anything from it. Should I increase? I've been taking sodium ascorbate, selenium, zinc, biotin, msm, a b complex, and drinking kombucha, kefir, and doing some fermented veggies everyday.

thanks in advance!


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## carole616

Really quite worrying. All the information we have at our finger tips and yet we're still in the dark about so many things.


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## LucyRev

My apologies since this doesn't have much to do with iodine, but I just read this article about coconut oil and its effects on thyroid function. I haven't started taking iodine yet, but I bought it along with the other slew of stuff to take along with it. I have an appt with my ND next week to follow up on my hypothyroid issues, and I'm going to talk to her about it. I bought coconut oil mainly to help my acne, but I was excited to read in the article that it also helps with thyroid and progesterone levels.







:


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## vegmom

Subbing to this thread so I can read through it all. Thanks for all this great information.


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## cortsmommy

I want to start taking the Lugol's iodine as I feel that I could really benefit, but all of the mentions of the various other supplements many of you are taking has me concerned that it might be unwise for me to just take the iodine. What else is absolutely necessary? I'm on a tight budget.


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## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AnnieMarie* 
I just got some iodine, though there was no strength on the bottle. I e-mailed the company and got this response:
_Lugol's Iodine is an aqueous solution of Iodine and Potassium Iodide. It contains in 1 ml, 50 mg of Iodine and about 130 mg of total Iodine, free and combined._
I am nervous to start taking it myself because I dont want to be detoxing mercury into my breastmilk, but thought it would be a good idea to start my (almost) 13yo DS1 taking some and possibly 3yo DS2 and 1yo DD. Maybe just one drop for DS1 and half a drop for DS2 and DD each? i am planning to get zeolite powder, should I start giving that straight away or wait and see?

What is your opinion on iodine absorbing through the skin? I seem to have read conflicting opinions on this - sorry if you have posted this already - I have read so much that I cannot seem to recall what I read where anymore and couldn't find it on here now. From what I read it seemed as though that way your body would only take what it needs and there is less risk of detox side effects, or have I got it wrong? I did put a small amount on my inner arm yesterday and it dissappeared quite quickly.
I get crazy salt and sugar cravings so I would love to find a safe way to take it, would the zeolite help for that? OR would it still likely end up in my milk?

We are all taking all the supplements mentioned in this thread and several extras - feel like a junkie already from all the pills LOL

Iodine itself goes through into breastmilk pretty directly proportionally to how much mom consumes (selenium does too). So that's a good thing for most of us, the big variable is how much it may mobilize in us, and that seems highly variable and not altogether predictable. And then you have to weigh the benefits of the iodine itself, being mineral-deficient, for both mom and babe, has risks. It's hard to evaluate, I don't have a good way to really judge. If you have a lot of other supps in place, there's less downside risk, though I'd keep monitoring the other supps. Maybe you'll need extra vitamin C (that happened to me for other things when I did stuff that mobilized toxins), maybe extra mag. And if you have weird stuff like you start smelling weird, that was a sign for me that I had more mobilized that I was really doing a great job excreting.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sprouthead* 
Sorry AnnieMarie that I don't have answers for your questions.

I came here to get input on iodoral dosing. i started the other day with 12.5 (1 pill- must be mgs? i dunno..) and I haven't felt anything from it. Should I increase? I've been taking sodium ascorbate, selenium, zinc, biotin, msm, a b complex, and drinking kombucha, kefir, and doing some fermented veggies everyday.

thanks in advance!

I'd probably give it a few weeks before going up in dosage. Kombucha, I'd say, is more of a mobilizer than an excretor (it can mobilize more than it gets out, but whether that's a problem that's highly dependent on toxic load) so if you have problems, I'd drop that and up the C, but otherwise, if you feel fine, keep going.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cortsmommy* 
I want to start taking the Lugol's iodine as I feel that I could really benefit, but all of the mentions of the various other supplements many of you are taking has me concerned that it might be unwise for me to just take the iodine. What else is absolutely necessary? I'm on a tight budget.

I think it depends on your situation. Feel really bad, or if you're pregnant/nursing, more care needs to be taken. Just a bit tired, not feeling great, and you can deal with the possibility of feeling icky for a week or so, then maybe you don't need to take anything. Some of it's luck--I am on the fairly-messed-up end of the spectrum, but I got lucky, no bad effects from iodine (started with 1 Iodoral). So if you can tolerate playing around a bit, do that and see how it goes.


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## sprouthead

thanks tanya!


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## quelindo

I'm slowly working my way through this thread so I don't know if this has been addressed yet or not, but I'm trying to figure out why I don't menstruate. I've had only a handful of periods on my own in my life (I'm 38) and after a lifetime of dealing with doctors who didn't seem to care about my issue I'm seeing a wonderful endo. After an MRI showed no problems with my pituitary gland, though, she seems kind of stuck and wants me to start on estrogen & progesterone.

My mother and older sister are both hypothyroid, though my numbers are in the "normal" range. In addition my mom had a nodule on her thyroid (I think I'm remembering this correctly) in the 1970's or so. I'm her fourth child, and I'm aware that stores of nutrients (or lack thereof) are passed down from one's parents, particularly the mother.

Could this be my issue? Anyone come across any information related to this problem and iodine in their research?


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## AnnieMarie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Iodine itself goes through into breastmilk pretty directly proportionally to how much mom consumes (selenium does too). So that's a good thing for most of us, the big variable is how much it may mobilize in us, and that seems highly variable and not altogether predictable. And then you have to weigh the benefits of the iodine itself, being mineral-deficient, for both mom and babe, has risks. It's hard to evaluate, I don't have a good way to really judge. If you have a lot of other supps in place, there's less downside risk, though I'd keep monitoring the other supps. Maybe you'll need extra vitamin C (that happened to me for other things when I did stuff that mobilized toxins), maybe extra mag. And if you have weird stuff like you start smelling weird, that was a sign for me that I had more mobilized that I was really doing a great job excreting.

Looks like I need to up my Vit C and mag some more am taking about 4000-5000mg vit C part of that is a fizzy powder and part is slow release tablets, and 4010mg mag (though that only gives 648mg elemental mag). I have noticed I smell kind of sweaty - which is unusual for me even in summer - and it is winter here







:. That is without adding oral iodine to the mix (I put some on my inner arm about twice a week). I am going to do the vit C flush this weekend and just take things really slow with the iodine until my body is better able to cope. For my 12yoDS I figure I will do the Vit C flush as well and then start him on iodine.
Tanya just also want to say thank you for all your input, I would be totally lost without all the wonderful help I have received on this forum, specially from you. I hope I will be able to help other mama's in the future from what we do and learn now.


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## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LucyRev* 
My apologies since this doesn't have much to do with iodine, but I just read this article about coconut oil and its effects on thyroid function. I haven't started taking iodine yet, but I bought it along with the other slew of stuff to take along with it. I have an appt with my ND next week to follow up on my hypothyroid issues, and I'm going to talk to her about it. I bought coconut oil mainly to help my acne, but I was excited to read in the article that it also helps with thyroid and progesterone levels.







:

Yes it's great for thyroid plus many other things. make sure it's organic virgin CO


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## Pattyla

I have some things to report.

First I got the Brownstein book yesterday and if you are on the fence about it, get it! So much good info in there. Now I understand why testing is necessary although I don't think there is anything wrong with going ahead and getting started on the iodine if you are reasonably sure you are low. I'm only part way through but now I'm wondering about getting my ADHD dd tested for hypothyroidism. (I skipped around and read some stuff at the end first. My own ADHD is showing.







) And I learned a sign of hypothyroidisim I hadn't ever heard before. Puffy around the eyes. I've been looking at my toddler a lot lately wondering why her eyes look red and puffy all the time. Now I might know.

Took my 1 year old to the naturopath in our FP's office to get some cranial work done on her today and talked about iodine. She's a big fan. Long story short we discussed testing my lo's for hypothyroidism and decided to hold off and see if we can fix them with iodine. We're doing the iodine loading test on the 1 year old this weekend. I've got those sticky bags to put on her to catch her pee. Hope she doesn't hate it too much.

I feel like we are moving in the right direction and iodine is central to it all.

So did I mention on this thread or another one that hypothyroidism is connected to low gastrin. Low gastrin can cause reflux (gastrin causes your sphincters in your stomach to open and close. It also triggers stomach acid formation.) I don't know why hypothyroidism causes low gastrin but it seems to be pretty common knowledge that they are connected.

If your gastrin is too high/doesn't fall you end up with a motility issue. Your stomach doesn't empty because the sphincter doesn't open. This can cause reflux when your stomach gets over full. We think this is what is happening with my LO right now. If you have too little gastrin you will have reflux because the sphincter on the top doesn't close properly and acid can splash up. Also you may have fast motility and lots of undigested foods passing through your system both because the sphincters aren't closing and because you aren't making much acid to do the first job of breaking food down.








: I love figuring things out.

For now I'm massaging stomach 36 (I think that is the right number, it is right below the knee on the front) on dd to help get her stomach working better, testing her iodine, and giving her a homeopathc pancreas/metoric iron. Also if we still have issues I may try giving her an antacid 2 hours after a meal to see if dropping her stomach acid levels may trigger her lower sphincter to open and get things moving along.


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## mom61508

. *Puffy around the eyes. I've been looking at my toddler a lot lately wondering why her eyes look red and puffy all the time. Now I might know.
*
OMG!!! DD's eyes are puffy like she has constant bags under her eyes does that mean it's her thyroid? The puffiness has ALWAYS bothered me. I've done research and could find nothing but allergy shiners which her eyes don't really look exactly like that. I don't know what to think right now
I pray it's not a symptom of her thyroid


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## quelindo

Re: puffy eyes -- I think I had them as a kid. It's hard for me to tell from photos, but it looks like I had bags under my eyes. Not really "shiners" but bags.

I was thinking about my post above where I mentioned have amennorhea. I said I didn't really have any other symptoms, and that's not quite true. I have LOTS of other symptoms -- they're just not big enough for any doctor to take notice. I have really heavy, achey lower legs. I'm prone to acne (especially if eating sugar & grains). I crave sugar & grains.







I feel like I have brain fog -- say the wrong thing, have trouble remembering words, etc. I get light-headed sometimes. I feel weak and when I try to exercise it totally wipes me out. I'm tired pretty much all the time. I am always freezing in winter. My voice gets really hoarse if I talk for even more than a few sentences. I get run down really easily.

The severity of these symptoms ebbs & wanes, and when I feel like hell I just think I need to start eating better & take my supplements (vitamins & minerals & CLO). But I never get my period back and I never feel GREAT...just better. I wonder if I've ever really felt normal, or just defined a normal for myself?









I was on Armour for a while and my tendency to be cold seemed like it went away, but it did nothing for my other symptoms. My endo has me off of it for now so she can test my thyroid next month. I really want to try iodine but my doctor is pretty mainstream, so I'm sure she won't be on board with that...not that that would stop me. But I should probably not go on it until after she's tested my thyroid.


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## quelindo

Has anyone ordered a test without using a doctor? Which lab did you use? I'm mulling over doing this, but I don't know if Hakala is reputable, and if so, which test I should have done.

Also, does "This test is now offered through our office for an additional ($30) thirty dollars" on the Flechas website mean that for an extra 30 bucks you don't need to have a doctor order the test for you?

And finally, how would I do the skin test, if I decide just to see how quickly the iodine absorbs into my skin?

P.S. I live in the Great Lakes area and my mother has had major thyroid problems (and I suspect her mother did too).


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## Pattyla

Anyone have an idea why dh is finding the salt water to be sweet?
DD (5) has made comments about salt making things sweet but I just assumed she was mixing up her words a bit. (Using sweet to mean good.). DH said it was so sweet he couldn't drink it. He was trying it for a headache. He is on 50 mg iodine.


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## linguistmama

I have puffy bags under my eyes too! They've been there for a long time and really bother me. And what is the issue with the Great Lakes? I'm from Minnesota and I think several other people in my family also have thyroid issues.


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## moneca

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Doing more reading and kept running across the term Iodism. I finally looked it up and realized it is the same as bromide detox symptoms. It also explains the symptoms I am coping with.

Moneca- Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I'm doing more salt right now. It always makes me feel so much better but when I'm feeling terrible I have trouble even functioning and remembering to try the salt. It tastes really good to me so I'm sure my body needs it. My girls love drinking the sauerkraut juice and I wouldn't be surprised if it is largely that they are craving that salt. Win win. Except that the 1 year old wants to hold her own cup and then gets distracted by the fact that she is holding a liquid and liquids are always fun to put your hands into and pour out..... I digress. For some reason she won't drink it from a sippy cup.

Current symptoms if anyone is interested. Lump in my throat. Stinky pee. Extreme muscle weakness. BO. Diahrea again from (I assume) mag.

Are there any co-nutrients that I might be missing that work with mag? I get lots of calcium and a good amount of potassium

Patty,
Just reading this made me realize I forgot to mention something that you might find helpful. On my days where my body required 3-4 tsp of sea salt I noticed that the first few tsp did not even taste salty to me. It wasn't until I reached my last tsp for the day that it tasted very salty. I would always have bowel symptoms after that tsp. I've been down to 1/4 tsp of salt every other day for the last 5 or so days. WIth the addition of both the vitamin E and then the B complex my body went into this huge bromide detox for 5 or more weeks and then quickly came down.

Edit - I just read your later post about your dh. I wonder if his body needs it so badly that it actually tastes sweet to him. I'd be curious how many tsp he could consume until it tastes salty.


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## moneca

JaneS where are you







: ?


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## Pattyla

Moneca- interesting. It always tastes salty to me but very good. Like the best drink ever if you kwim. I do wonder about dh and dd. She has always really craved salt. In general we let her freely salt her food and she likes a lot of salt. I think she is having some bromine detox symptoms but it is hard to sort out from 5 year old issues. I'm going to increase her Iodine to a full pill for a few days and see if that helps. I'm also considering getting her thyroid checked and looking into getting her on a low dose of armor while we get her iodine fixed.

The naturopath I took my toddler to today said she has a young patient with hasimotos that she has had on 25 mg of iodine for 2 years whose levels are finally up to 10% in the loading test.


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## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
I have puffy bags under my eyes too! They've been there for a long time and really bother me. And what is the issue with the Great Lakes? I'm from Minnesota and I think several other people in my family also have thyroid issues.

Lack of iodine.
Traditionally, the Native people of the interior ate fish head soup, wild rice and cat tails (both the roots and pollen)- one of which, at least, I'm sure is high in iodine. Goiter was actually most prevalent among the Natives of the interior of the continent, from what I've read and heard from Elders. Regardless, the majority of people living in the Great Lakes region in the present day do not eat these sources of iodine (and the further you go from the ocean, the more depleted the soil is of iodine so it's not as easy to get from "normal" food sources).


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## Junegoddess

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
I have puffy bags under my eyes too! They've been there for a long time and really bother me. And what is the issue with the Great Lakes? I'm from Minnesota and I think several other people in my family also have thyroid issues.

I also wonder if it's a toxic thing... I've never been up that way, but connect the area in my head with things I've read about polluted lakes (Lake Erie comes to mind... didn't a lot of the fish die 20-30 years ago?) and industrial pollution in general. I'm SURE it's not really the whole area, but I always picture Detroit and smog and dead fish. And mosquitoes the size of small birds... but that's not related.







Or maybe it IS! What would mercury do the genes of mosquitoes?

Ok, back to being serious... I would assume that there's a lot of lead, mercury, and who-knows-what in the water up there, and if people eat much of the local fish, or eat food from polluted soils, it could cause a cluster of iodine deficiency.

Back to lurking... (pregnant and NOT detoxing, but taking a little bit of kelp)


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## mama2leila

So I started the lugol's 5% last week, and Sunday I had a killer detox headache so went from 4 drops down to two drops. Tuesday, I had a mild anxiety attack after taking my vitamin c and magnesium, but I didn't realize what it was, so that night I took just the magnesium, and had a terrible, terrible anxiety attack. Lasted two hours, seriously considered calling an ambulance to the ER (the kids were asleep, and I didn't feel I could drive). I got through it, went to bed, had another minor attack in the night. Wednesday I woke up and my stomach is just so messed up, a roiling pit of acid. I went to the chiro and got an adjustment, and felt better for a little while, but could hardly eat. I got some food down in the afternoon, and felt better for a little while until I drank my water. No supplements of any sort on Wednesday. Yesterday, I felt okay in the morning, until I drank some water on an empty stomach mid-morning, then the acid came back. I did get a multi down yesterday (one'n'only women's). I had another panic attack in the middle of the night, I have had so many heart palpitations this week, and I am terrified and I am going to die and never see my children grow up. I'm assuming this is the bromides detoxing. I'm afraid to do salt flushes anymore (I did them daily up through Wednesday) - my bp was 124/72 yesterday, it's usually around 100/70. I'm worried about the spread between the two numbers. How long will this last? Have I broken myself? Can I take zantac? I'm so afraid to take anything and over tax the kidneys. i'm going to the doctor this afternoon because I can't go into the weekend feeling like I'm going to die. Please, any words of wisdom is much appreciated.


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## WuWei

Sarah, I would do the salt water, vit C and selenium alongside the magnesium. It sounds like you've opened up your Phase I detox pathway, but are not excreting the toxins effectively. We must open all of the detox pathways to excrete effectively. Are you nursing? Amalgam fillings?

Zinc, B12 and magnesium are important to stomach acid production, which is essential for proper nutrient absorption. The type of supplement needed, chemically is related to one's own detox issues. Antacids could impair nutrient absorption.

Start here to learn about detox pathways: http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/t...bstacle-course

And here are a few informal videos about detox pathways: http://heal-thyself.ning.com/video/video

and here about evaluating digestion and stomach acid (beet "pink pee" test): http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/topics/the-beet-test

Foods to Help Phase I and Phase II Detoxification:
http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/topics/nutrient-dense-foods?page=2&commentId=\
2814160%3AComment%3A655&x=1#2814160Comment655

And do *check out www.eatingcultures.com to try and guess on some of your detox pathways, and figure out which nutrients will be important for you. And www.detoxpuzzle.com to identify some of your detox pathways, nutrient deficiencies/needs.* There is a step-by-step process of identifying your detox issues.

ETA: how much magnesium did you take?

Pat


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## mama2leila

Thanks Pat - I was taking about 2-3 tsp of the Natural Calm, split twice daily, 2500 mg of vit C. I am too scared to take them, since the anxiety attacks came on right after taking them, and I really don't think I can handle the anxiety attacks. I can't seem to get water down, which I know is really important to help the body excrete the bromides. I do have some amalgam, and recently had many replaced. For the past few weeks, before starting iodine, I was doing small amounts of kombucha (not more than 4 oz a day, and not daily), and taking bentonite clay internally (1 T every night). I checked out all the detox pathway stuff and the vids before I started this process, and I'd been careful up to Wednesday to try to support - lots of probiotics (dairy and water kefir, bubbies pickles, homemade kimchi), 2 brazil nuts a day, my multi vit has a good B1+B5, and folate. I'm trying to eat avocados regularly for glutathione.

I really don't know if I can make it through without antiacids. I can't hardly drink water... what would you do?

Interesting you mention the beet test- we ate beets on Tuesday night, a lot of them (just harvested from the garden). My pee was normal colored, but I noticed my son's pee was pink. And either my daughter or my husband (not sure who didn't flush







).

Any idea why the magnesium would bring on the panic attacks? I'm so scared to take it again. I'm even afraid to do like an epsom salt foot bath.

I'm also worried for my son (30 months), who is still nursing. He seems to be exhibiting detox symptoms too.

I am scared to start up the iodine again, but afraid not to, because then the bromides will just rebind with the receptors. I am really lost here. I found an ND (practicing illegally), who will see me for a nutrition consult next Wednesday, shoudl I just hold off until then?


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## Pattyla

I know it sounds crazy but try doubling your iodine. Also do the salt water. You may need more of it. Or you may need less iodine. One drop instead of two.

i take l-theanine for anxiety. Also rescue remedy.

Do you have anything to help you bind and excrete toxins like NCD? I get mine from spectrumsupplements.com

Your nursling showing detox symptoms may be because he is finally getting iodine like he needs, not because of bromine in your bm. BM levels of iodine are much higher than mama's blood levels of iodine. He needs to detox the bromine if he has it. the sooner the better.


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## mama2leila

Thanks, Patty. I'm waffling now on whether to go to the doctor or not. I know they won't be very accepting of what I am doing and I really don't think they can help me. But at the same time, the heart stuff I have going on is freaking me out.


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## Pattyla

Dr Brownsteins book talks about a transitory hyperthyroid state when first taking iodine. That may be what you are experiencing. I'll look and see what he says to do.

I'm off iodine and my multi which has iodine in it for 48 hours while we get DD's iodine tested. I feel like crap. Tomorrow will be even worse I'm sure.

DD #1 is having a lot of trouble cooperating today. Is it because she is 5 or is it brain fog? I'm not sure but the longer it goes on I'm leaning toward brain fog. Just not sure what to do for her.


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## Pattyla

mama2ella- try 100 mg b2 and 500 mg b3 twice a day.


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## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2leila* 
Thanks Pat - I was taking about 2-3 tsp of the Natural Calm, split twice daily, 2500 mg of vit C. I am too scared to take them, since the anxiety attacks came on right after taking them, and I really don't think I can handle the anxiety attacks. I can't seem to get water down, which I know is really important to help the body excrete the bromides. _I do have some amalgam_, *and recently had many replaced.* For the past few weeks, before starting iodine, I was doing small amounts of *kombucha* (not more than 4 oz a day, and not daily), and taking bentonite clay internally (1 T every night). I checked out all the detox pathway stuff and the vids before I started this process, and I'd been careful up to Wednesday to try to support - *lots of probiotics* (dairy and water kefir, bubbies pickles, homemade kimchi), 2 brazil nuts a day, my multi vit has a good B1+B5, and folate. I'm trying to eat avocados regularly for glutathione.

I really don't know if I can make it through *without antacids.* I can't hardly drink water... what would you do?
<snip>

Any idea why the magnesium would bring on the panic attacks? I'm so scared to take it again. I'm even afraid to do like an *epsom salt foot bath*.

I'm also worried for my son (30 months), *who is still nursing*. He seems to be exhibiting detox symptoms too.

I am scared to start up the iodine again, but afraid not to, because then the bromides will just rebind with the receptors. I am really lost here. I found an ND (practicing illegally), who will see me for a nutrition consult next Wednesday, should I just hold off until then?

I don't know enough about chelating to caution you after having the mercury removed. But, it sounds like you are OPENING detox pathways too fast, on top of taking too many probiotics and fungal killers, with too high a toxin load circulating.

There is a balance to excreting stored and circulating toxins. You have stored toxins due to bromides (likely) and sluggish thyroid (perhaps) and stored mercury (from amalgam fillings) and recent mercury circulation exposure (from removed amalgam fillings). That is a hell of a lot of toxins to be releasing at the same time.

Stop.

Slow down.

Back up.

Take it easy.

If you had ONLY the bromides to deal with, the iodine could help (alongside the salt flushes, and nutrients etc), if your detox pathways are open. Sounds like you are helping to open detox pathways.

*However*, you also have *circulating* heavy metals due to the recent amalgam removal. AND are INCREASING the release of heavy metals with kombucha and going heavy on the probiotics. btdt, myself, thought I'd die with the headache from the released mercury. It is redepositing into other organs, brain, breastmilk, when you have TOO MANY toxins for your body to detox. The combination of the bromides (from thyroid), along with the recently released mercury (from filling removal) AND the released stored mercury (in gut candida) is overwhelming your system, imnsho.

I would focus on just gut healing, without the iodine PLUS binding the heavy metals with vit C, magnesium, selenium (critical) and consider some clay and zeolite. When were the amalgam's removed? Were the proper procedures utilized? Ventilation system, oxygen, etc. What is the plan for the other amalgams? I'd not be nursing while removing amalgams, personally.

I'd stop the kombucha. I don't believe it is indicated when 1) nursing, 2) amalgam removal, 3) releasing other stored toxins with candida present

How much of the probiotics are you consuming? I'd do 1 tablespoon of each, max. a day.

I'd focus on the B-vitamins and the other alternatives to open detox pathways. I would DO the Epsom salt baths. That will help you to excrete the mercury more effectively, from my understanding. And heavy on the vit C use. That is the safest supplement I know. I'd hold the toddler off from nursing.

I'd do a bit of lemon juice in water or sauerkraut juice or ACV, only a teaspoon a couple of times a day to help the stomach acid, before meals. No grains, no dairy, slow down on the kimchi until you are feeling way better.

Consider using 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda in water between meals. NOT before, wait at least 2 hours after. That will help to alkalize your body. (small amounts only, as too much can be fatal)

ETA: basically, opening the detox pathways is too much, if you have too many circulating toxins, and you'll feel like crap. If the detox pathways are blocked, the toxins are stored in our organs (brain, liver, gut, thyroid, etc.). You'll still feel like crap, if you keep increasing the circulating toxins, however. I believe that you need to slow down the circulating toxins: the iodine and kombucha are releasing them, _in addition to_ the open detox pathways dumping *stored* toxins into the circulation. Slow the release of the stored toxins, at the moment and just deal with the ones you can't help: the recently removed amalgam released ones. The magnesium is opening the pathways to release the stored toxins. Vit C, selenium and sulfate (epsom salts), chloride (to bind bromides), (perhaps some potassium chloride-small amounts only as too much can be fatal), clay, zeolite and no nursing.

Pat


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## mama2leila

Thanks Pat, and Patty. I think I'm going to keep off the iodine for now. So, this is what I'm thinking. Magnesium foot soaks (we don't have a working tub), vitamin c, salt flushes, and my multivitamin (which I believe just has the USDA rec for iodine - so 150mg?), and the bentonite/montmorillite clay internally. I'm too nervous to add anything dangerous like baking soda or potassium chloride. No more kombucha, no more iodine. Unfortunately the "protocol" was not followed when I had my fillings removed, I wish I'd done more research before that. They had to be removed because they were cracked and had decay around them.

How long will this last? I have too many toxins going through, I'm certain of that. What can I do? Should I go to the doctor today - can they help me at all? Should I hold off on the multi for a while?


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## tanyalynn

mama2leila, not sure if you're looking for an alternative type HCP, my HCP is in Dubuque, she's an acupuncturist. She rocks, and she knows mercury, flat-out she's good. I think I've gotten excellent guidance from her. She knows other stuff too, not just mercury, but if you want someone, PM me.

I'd seriously consider weaning, and I don't say that lightly. I weaned my 21mo son before getting my amalgams out, with a safe protocol. I could tell I had lots of bad circulating stuff afterward and he would've been harmed. If your son is showing behavioral or physical changes after you got your amalgams out, that is not a good sign. IME, it takes a lot of increase in toxic load to actually see behavioral changes in a kid.

I'd do everything you can now to reduce circulating toxins, bowel tolerance vitamin C every day, vitamin C flushes (see the Perque site below), multivit will help some but it's pretty low dose compared to what's going on (consider taking higher than the recommended dosage). Modifilan (available online) will help some, that's what I took for my post-amalgam-removal headache.

http://www.perque.com/pdfs/Pt_Ascorbate_Slush_FIN.pdf


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## WuWei

I second the Traditional Chinese Medicine and acupuncture for helping to clear heavy metal toxins safely.

I'd also recommend Classical Homeopathy for both you and child. This is the path we've chosen with our family.

Pat


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## Pattyla

Nak
Pat-









I would keep the multi personally. And get zeolites asap. We take liver life and cell food to help support detox.

Now my nursling is asleep and I need to do battle with my terribly out of sorts and ridiculously stubborn 5 year old who was encouraged in her stubbornness last night by dh who lost his temper and then backed down from what he was asking of her. I know this because it was the first thing she told me this morning. Now I need to teach her that mama does not back down and that might just take all day. (There are very few times that I let things get to this point but today is one of those times.). It is hard to convey in few words and would not be nearly the issue if she felt better I know but we need to do this now.


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## tanyalynn

Patty







My DD has those same tendencies (takes after me in temperament, sometimes we bump along roughly and sometimes really well). For DD, this has moderated quite a bit as her health has improved.







It's hard to balance providing the parenting they need and the help and support on the physical health side that they need. Good job on what sounds like it'll be a rough day.


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## Pattyla

Anyone have any quick fixes for hives that won't knock me out? I just broke out in hives. I'm pretty sure they are stress induced. Dealing w/ dd today is putting me over the edge.


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## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Anyone have any quick fixes for hives that won't knock me out? I just broke out in hives. I'm pretty sure they are stress induced. Dealing w/ dd today is putting me over the edge.


Stop.

Slow down.

Back up.

Take it easy.










If your daughter had low blood sugar and couldn't do what you wanted, insisting wouldn't help. It is the same with food intolerances and detox. I bite folks heads off here when I detox too much. Relax. All is well. Tomorrow is another day. Rome wasn't built in a day.









Pat


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## Pattyla

We crested the mountain and are coming down the other side.

DD and I did some hard work together today and I hope we will be better for it. I used everything in my bag of tricks twice I think. We're both ok now but it was really rough in the middle of it.

In other news I just did a test run of the sticky bag things in DD's diaper for testing her iodine and it won't work. After 1 hour her labia was bright red from the adhesive and her diaper was wet and the bag was empty. So I just called and I'll be doing the test myself tomorrow. I'm glad cause that means I can take my iodine and hopefully won't feel quite so terrible.


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## quelindo

Sorry to be a pest and quote myself, but I was just wondering if anyone had the answers to my questions...









Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Has anyone ordered a test without using a doctor? Which lab did you use? I'm mulling over doing this, but I don't know if Hakala is reputable, and if so, which test I should have done.

Also, does "This test is now offered through our office for an additional ($30) thirty dollars" on the Flechas website mean that for an extra 30 bucks you don't need to have a doctor order the test for you?

And finally, how would I do the skin test, if I decide just to see how quickly the iodine absorbs into my skin?

P.S. I live in the Great Lakes area and my mother has had major thyroid problems (and I suspect her mother did too).


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## Theloose

Very interesting link between hypothyroid and gastrin, Pattyla - I hope you don't mind, I copied it to the stomach acid thread

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Anyone have an idea why dh is finding the salt water to be sweet?
DD (5) has made comments about salt making things sweet but I just assumed she was mixing up her words a bit. (Using sweet to mean good.). DH said it was so sweet he couldn't drink it. He was trying it for a headache. He is on 50 mg iodine.

I haven't noticed a difference with (small amounts of) iodine, but Real Salt tastes kinda sweet to me. When I dissolve it in water, it's salty, but a good salty - like broth.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Junegoddess* 
I also wonder if it's a toxic thing... I've never been up that way, but connect the area in my head with things I've read about polluted lakes (Lake Erie comes to mind... didn't a lot of the fish die 20-30 years ago?) and industrial pollution in general. I'm SURE it's not really the whole area, but I always picture Detroit and smog and dead fish. And mosquitoes the size of small birds... but that's not related.







Or maybe it IS! What would mercury do the genes of mosquitoes?

Ok, back to being serious... I would assume that there's a lot of lead, mercury, and who-knows-what in the water up there, and if people eat much of the local fish, or eat food from polluted soils, it could cause a cluster of iodine deficiency.

Back to lurking... (pregnant and NOT detoxing, but taking a little bit of kelp)

I just posted this in the Allergies chat thread. If you read the first article, the guy got started by relating dead fish/pesticides/biotoxins to human health issues.
"Anyone know anything about cholestyramine? My mom's having me read this article (and this and more on that site). Basically, he's throwing various biotoxins into our mix of heavy metals and nutrient deficiencies, and he's talking a lot about hormonal imbalances. He's using cholestyramine like we're using clay - to bind to toxins in the bile so that they're excreted instead of reabsorbed, and he's having lots of success."


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## JaneS

Hello everyone!









I'm back and will be slogging my way through the posts I missed... I'm sure I'll find something to put in my 2 cents worth.









I just read Sally Fallon's new article in the current issue of _Wise Traditions_ on The Iodine Debate. Very interesting. She evaluates Abraham and Brownstein's and other clinicians experiences as described previously in this thread, but also states some negative opinions. She reiterates the debate between Abraham and Gaby in the Townsend Letter and evaluates the strength of their arguments.

She doesn't really provides a final conclusion, but states that the positive clinical experiences of several physicians using iodine cannot be ignored. One thing that she mentions is that iodide (Lugol's contains iodine and iodide) is very caustic and proposes that iodine only is more gentle and preferable. The issue also has other articles on the thyroid and the adrenals.

A neat little tidbit is that coconut oil contains iodine b/c they are usually grown near the ocean. And seaweed contains phytogestrogens which inhibit iodine. Her new husband Geoffrey Morell mentions that he has had experience shrinking thyorid nodules with topical application of Lugol's.

Fallon also seems to correlate iodine fortification of salt with Hashimoto's giving credence to a lay person's story from Germany in a sidebar. I was very disappointed with this. And found it ironic that the person mentioned fluoridation of the water yet neither made the connection that fluoride blocks iodine in the body. Fluoride can certainly be the cause of the rise in Hashimoto's on it's own by blocking iodine uptake... and not the piddly amount of iodine in iodized salt!









A product by Trimedica is mentioned (they call it Thyactin but it's been renamed): *Thyadine*.

It contains 150 mcg (the RDA) of colloidal iodine per drop and also some homeopathics. 8-12 drops spaced out throughout the day is recommended in another article by a clinician in this issue but Sally doesn't offer her conclusions as far as the amount to take as she says traditional people tended to take the RDA or less (however they did not have toxic goitrogens in the environment to contend with). She ends her article with a call for more study and left me feeling let down a bit I must say.

Have no idea if y'all have been talking about this or not... I should probably go back and read!


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
So did I mention on this thread or another one that hypothyroidism is connected to low gastrin. Low gastrin can cause reflux (gastrin causes your sphincters in your stomach to open and close. It also triggers stomach acid formation.) I don't know why hypothyroidism causes low gastrin but it seems to be pretty common knowledge that they are connected.

Dr. Flechas talks about this... it is because there are iodine receptors in the stomach and it influences acid production. Since hypothyroidism is usually caused by low iodine there ya go.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Has anyone ordered a test without using a doctor? Which lab did you use? I'm mulling over doing this, but I don't know if Hakala is reputable, and if so, which test I should have done.

Also, does "This test is now offered through our office for an additional ($30) thirty dollars" on the Flechas website mean that for an extra 30 bucks you don't need to have a doctor order the test for you?

And finally, how would I do the skin test, if I decide just to see how quickly the iodine absorbs into my skin?

P.S. I live in the Great Lakes area and my mother has had major thyroid problems (and I suspect her mother did too).

Yes, Hakala is recommended by Dr. Brownstein as well. http://www.hakalalabs.com/services I would do it all in one fell swoop with the bromide test as well.

Yes, I think Flechas' office will also do it w/o a dr. (assigning Dr. Flechas as your dr.)

The skin test has been debunked by Dr. Abraham as scientifically accurate because a lot evaporates into the air, or converts to iodide (which is clear). However, some clinicians have said it was helpful. It certainly can't hurt.

I saw the other post where you said your mother had nodules... yes this is a form of goiter. She was iodine deficient.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2leila* 
So I started the lugol's 5% last week, and Sunday I had a killer detox headache so went from 4 drops down to two drops. Tuesday, I had a mild anxiety attack after taking my vitamin c and magnesium, but I didn't realize what it was, so that night I took just the magnesium, and had a terrible, terrible anxiety attack. Lasted two hours, seriously considered calling an ambulance to the ER (the kids were asleep, and I didn't feel I could drive). I got through it, went to bed, had another minor attack in the night. Wednesday I woke up and my stomach is just so messed up, a roiling pit of acid. I went to the chiro and got an adjustment, and felt better for a little while, but could hardly eat. I got some food down in the afternoon, and felt better for a little while until I drank my water. No supplements of any sort on Wednesday. Yesterday, I felt okay in the morning, until I drank some water on an empty stomach mid-morning, then the acid came back. I did get a multi down yesterday (one'n'only women's). I had another panic attack in the middle of the night, I have had so many heart palpitations this week, and I am terrified and I am going to die and never see my children grow up. I'm assuming this is the bromides detoxing. I'm afraid to do salt flushes anymore (I did them daily up through Wednesday) - my bp was 124/72 yesterday, it's usually around 100/70. I'm worried about the spread between the two numbers. How long will this last? Have I broken myself? Can I take zantac? I'm so afraid to take anything and over tax the kidneys. i'm going to the doctor this afternoon because I can't go into the weekend feeling like I'm going to die. Please, any words of wisdom is much appreciated.









Are you okay now? Have you had your thyroid antibodies tested? (for Hashimoto's)

FWIW I cannot take magnesium at night either. Not sure if it's my toxicity or what, but mag. gives me energy and keeps me awake! And all you read is how mag. is so great for calming you.







:

I love my transdermal magnesium oil, no gut issues. And I do feel calm when I use it, but energized calm. I think I had to work up to high doses too.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Anyone have any quick fixes for hives that won't knock me out? I just broke out in hives. I'm pretty sure they are stress induced. Dealing w/ dd today is putting me over the edge.

Vitamin C to bowel tolerance.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
I'm slowly working my way through this thread so I don't know if this has been addressed yet or not, but I'm trying to figure out why I don't menstruate. I've had only a handful of periods on my own in my life (I'm 38) and after a lifetime of dealing with doctors who didn't seem to care about my issue I'm seeing a wonderful endo. After an MRI showed no problems with my pituitary gland, though, she seems kind of stuck and wants me to start on estrogen & progesterone.

My mother and older sister are both hypothyroid, though my numbers are in the "normal" range. In addition my mom had a nodule on her thyroid (I think I'm remembering this correctly) in the 1970's or so. I'm her fourth child, and I'm aware that stores of nutrients (or lack thereof) are passed down from one's parents, particularly the mother.

Could this be my issue? Anyone come across any information related to this problem and iodine in their research?

Yes, yes, yes. Might you have PCOS? Your sugar cravings you posted about in another thread indeed indicate a problem with insulin and insulin resistance. All hormones, including insulin and estrogen and progesterone, are related to the thyroid, and therefore iodine. Clinical experience from the doctors in The Iodine Project shows insulin sensitivity is improved on iodine supplements.

Mainstream Endos learn that iodine is dangerous however and will not support that avenue.


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## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 







Are you okay now? Have you had your thyroid antibodies tested? (for Hashimoto's)

FWIW I cannot take magnesium at night either. Not sure if it's my toxicity or what, but mag. gives me energy and keeps me awake! And all you read is how mag. is so great for calming you.







:

I love my transdermal magnesium oil, no gut issues. And I do feel calm when I use it, but energized calm. I think I had to work up to high doses too.

I would love to try magnesium oil. Is this something you make yourself? How do you do it or where do you buy it?

re: Iodine loading test. My results were:

Total Iodine excreted: 43.674 mg (from 50 mg dose)
% excreted: 87%

So this makes it seem like I am only slightly iodine sufficient, right? Or does it not work that way?

But then it goes on to say that if you excrete more than 90% you might have some other problem. I was pretty close to 90%. Should I be worried about "another problem"?


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chakra* 
I have hachimotos (spelling i know) and my thyroid levels are mild hypo.

So is the iodine a good or bad idea? I read you should not take it with antibodies present.

Well since low iodine is thought to be one of the causes of Hashimoto's, it cannot be ignored, but it does make things more complicated...

I would recommend working with a clinician knowledgeable in iodine and the supporting nutrients. Brownstein's book also mentions the role of deficiency of ATP cofactors such as B2 and B3 playing a role in development of the disease.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
I would love to try magnesium oil. Is this something you make yourself? How do you do it or where do you buy it?


www.enzymestuff.com has a recipe on how to make epsom salts cream, which I have done before, basically just dissolved in warm water and added palm oil shortening.

Dr. Brownstein has tested *Ancient Minerals* magnesium oil/salts/gel and found them to be the purest. Apparently there is concern among other brands of lead and such. I started with another brand, Health & Wisdom, a long time ago when I read the Transdermal Mag. Therapy book, but like the Ancient Minerals better.

I found the oil to be the easiest to use but I had to dilute it at first or use the gel. Now I can spray directly on my skin with no issue at all, the straight oil did sting a bit at first. Mark Sircus says it stings b/c one is very deficient, I don't know exactly _why_ but that was my experience.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
re: Iodine loading test. My results were:

Total Iodine excreted: 43.674 mg (from 50 mg dose)
% excreted: 87%

So this makes it seem like I am only slightly iodine sufficient, right? Or does it not work that way?

But then it goes on to say that if you excrete more than 90% you might have some other problem. I was pretty close to 90%. Should I be worried about "another problem"?

This is either really good or really bad.









First of all, the rule of thumb I think you are referring to is when one of the Iodine Project Researchers (was it on Optimox?) mentioned if a patient RETAINS 90% or more then an immediate cancer work up is ordered.

This is what bothers me about the iodine loading test. You do not know if you are sufficient and don't need extra iodine, or if have a symporter defect and therefore the iodine you are consuming is not attaching to the receptors.

Apparently the saliva/serum iodide ratio is what reveals that:
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-13/IOD_13.htm

And high vitamin C fixes it:
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-11/IOD_11.htm


----------



## WuWei

apparently, there is a "magnesium oil" which is Magnesium Chloride. http://www.magnesiumforlife.com/dosage.shtml

(And I just added "The Tao of Detox" to my Amazon wish list, it is mentioned here)

Pat


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca* 
Jane - Thanks for starting this thread. Funny, I don't visit MDC much anymore, but when I do look at the thread it's always one with all the same detox mamas.

I had mild fibrocystic breasts, cold extrems, am basal oral temp of 95-96.5, and a bit of weight around the middle. I started taking 50 mg of lugols for 6 months without any improvement in hypo symptoms or detox symptoms. I gave up after 6 months and just took 12.5 per day for another 6 months.

I read in an Adele Davis book that if one does not get enough vitamin E the thyroid will become scarred and cannot absorb iodine even if it is in plentiful supply. I thought I was doing well with an avacado and EVOO. I decided to try it and began 1 TBSP of spectrum wheat germ oil and went back up to my 50 mg of iodine. Well, had three days of wicked detox fatigue and headache. I've always have plenty of energy. The morning after my first day of the E and 50mg iodine I took an oral temp before getting out of bed. That day and every day since it has been 97.5-99.0. Pretty amazing.

Jane - I agree that the fatigue from the bromide detox can be mind numbing. After starting the E and 50 mg I have taken anywhere between 1/2 to 4 tsp of sea salt per day. I don't take it until at least 4 hours after my iodine dose. I guage how much to take by how tired I'm feeling and how the skin on my forehead looks. Wrinkles and fatigue means I need more salt. I take 1 tsp at a time. I wonder if you'd feel better if you took more than 1 1/2 tsp per day?

I was down to only needing 1/2 tsp salt per day when my NAET/acupuncturist confirmed that I had a very high B vitamin requirement. I had been taking 6 liver caps, daily egg, bee pollen, 4 TBSP wheat germ, and TF diet. I was still testing deficient for B vitamins. I started some food source B complex and the bromide detox symptoms (meaning extreme fatigue) came back full force requiring 3 weeks of 3-4 tsp of salt per day. I've always been uncomfortable taking the ATP cofactors since it only gives large amounts of two of the B vitamins. I read once that giving only one or a few of the Bs would cause deficiencies in the rest which made sense to me.

I still haven't seen improvements in my hypo symptoms other than the increased basal temps. I just took axillary temps after reading this thread. I was consistently 97.8 except for days 2 and 3 of my period. I dropped to 97.6 and 97.7, so I guess I still have a bit of work to do there.

My cysts haven't improved, but someone on the NT forum told me that their cysts did not shrink until all their detox symptoms were gone. That gives me hope that I still just need to stick with this.

Lots of good info on this thread!









Hello dear friend! I saved the best for last.









I have read a LOT about iodine from many sources lately and that is the first time I've seen vitamin E recommended... very, very interesting! As I just referenced in my last post about about high vitamin C fixing a symporter defect, the vitamin E as an antioxidant must be doing the same thing.

What is your food source B vit supplement?

I've been doing grated chicken liver in my kefir shots instead of beef for more folate. I'm sure anyone requiring high Bs are because their detox pathways are clogged, and I sure qualify for that dx. I hear you re: traditional point of view on B complex. However, I still think that there is room for "non traditional" nutritional support to jump start a broken body. That being said I do NOT do well on high doses of ATP cofactors B2 and B3 as recommended by Brownstein. Niacin is NOT calming for me.







Weird how both mag. and niacin are supposed to do that according to conventional wisdom and doesn't for me.

If your cysts haven't improved with such a high dosage of Lugol's for so long that just tells me it's a problem with uptake (symporter), although I can't believe they are still blocked given all the hard work you have been doing with chelation!

I haven't upped my iodine again b/c I'm scared. I just don't have the bandwidth to be down and out for any length of time these days. Considering trying the Thyadine and see what happens with iodine and no iodide.


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Yes, Hakala is recommended by Dr. Brownstein as well. http://www.hakalalabs.com/services I would do it all in one fell swoop with the bromide test as well.

Yes, I think Flechas' office will also do it w/o a dr. (assigning Dr. Flechas as your dr.)

The skin test has been debunked by Dr. Abraham as scientifically accurate because a lot evaporates into the air, or converts to iodide (which is clear). However, some clinicians have said it was helpful. It certainly can't hurt.

I saw the other post where you said your mother had nodules... yes this is a form of goiter. She was iodine deficient.

Thanks so much, Jane. is the bromide test to check to see how much bromide is in one's system?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Yes, yes, yes. Might you have PCOS? Your sugar cravings you posted about in another thread indeed indicate a problem with insulin and insulin resistance. All hormones, including insulin and estrogen and progesterone, are related to the thyroid, and therefore iodine. Clinical experience from the doctors in The Iodine Project shows insulin sensitivity is improved on iodine supplements.

Mainstream Endos learn that iodine is dangerous however and will not support that avenue.

It's possible I have PCOS. The endos I have seen are not willing to put that label on me, though my infertility endo said it could be a "PCOS variant," whatever that means. I don't have any of the traditional markers (overweight, excess hair) but I do tend to get acne.

I think my adrenals are messed up, too.









I had my thyroid tested a few years ago and I was within normal range but definitely on the end toward hypothyroidism. I went on Armour for about six months so when my endo tested me recently I was HYPER-thyroid. I've been off Armour for a while so I'm going to have everything retested at my next appointment.

I definitely am not someone who will just follow what her mainstream doctor says. I have another appointment next month and if I don't get any answers then I will pursue this route.


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## quelindo

Also, I'm still waiting for Dr. Brownstein's book to arrive in the mail, but I have seen both glaucoma and dementia linked to iodine deficiency in some of my online research. My dad (and maternal grandmother) had glaucoma and he also had dementia in the years before he died.


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## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
www.enzymestuff.com has a recipe on how to make epsom salts cream, which I have done before, basically just dissolved in warm water and added palm oil shortening.

Dr. Brownstein has tested *Ancient Minerals* magnesium oil/salts/gel and found them to be the purest. Apparently there is concern among other brands of lead and such. I started with another brand, Health & Wisdom, a long time ago when I read the Transdermal Mag. Therapy book, but like the Ancient Minerals better.

I found the oil to be the easiest to use but I had to dilute it at first or use the gel. Now I can spray directly on my skin with no issue at all, the straight oil did sting a bit at first. Mark Sircus says it stings b/c one is very deficient, I don't know exactly _why_ but that was my experience.

This is either really good or really bad.









First of all, the rule of thumb I think you are referring to is when one of the Iodine Project Researchers (was it on Optimox?) mentioned if a patient RETAINS 90% or more then an immediate cancer work up is ordered.

This is what bothers me about the iodine loading test. You do not know if you are sufficient and don't need extra iodine, or if have a symporter defect and therefore the iodine you are consuming is not attaching to the receptors.

Apparently the saliva/serum iodide ratio is what reveals that:
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-13/IOD_13.htm

And high vitamin C fixes it:
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-11/IOD_11.htm

thanks for the info. I will have to try the oil. i'm getting tired of natural calm.

So this is the quote from the test:

If you EXCRETE 90% or more and are taking no iodine supplementation you may have one of 3 problems:

1. A symporter defect
2. Iodine organification problem
3. High bromide levels

I guess if I had taken the bromide portion of the test I could rule in/out #3 but I didn't. So how to I rule in/out 1 or 2? I don't have great external sources of iodine since we don't use table salt (use sea salt) & I don't eat a lot of sea vegetables.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Thanks so much, Jane. is the bromide test to check to see how much bromide is in one's system?

It's possible I have PCOS. The endos I have seen are not willing to put that label on me, though my infertility endo said it could be a "PCOS variant," whatever that means. I don't have any of the traditional markers (overweight, excess hair) but I do tend to get acne.

I think my adrenals are messed up, too.









I had my thyroid tested a few years ago and I was within normal range but definitely on the end toward hypothyroidism. I went on Armour for about six months so when my endo tested me recently I was HYPER-thyroid. I've been off Armour for a while so I'm going to have everything retested at my next appointment.

I definitely am not someone who will just follow what her mainstream doctor says. I have another appointment next month and if I don't get any answers then I will pursue this route.

Yes, iodine will detox bromide. Bromide is in the same chemical family (and chlorine and fluoride) and will bind to iodine receptors in its place.

Adrenals and thyroid go hand in hand. That other _Wise Traditions_ article on their interrelation looked really good. I have to go back and read it and will post anything interesting.

Hmmmm.... hypo- then hyper- ... I forget have you been tested for antibodies? Hashimoto's will cause a seesaw effect between the two conditions.

As far as "PCOS" or not goes, I imagine you don't have to have the full blown syndrome to have problems with insulin causing amenorrhea. It's thought to be the high insulin that messes with your FSH that causes cysts on ovaries. b/c they don't fully "pop" and release the egg. And you can have high insulin without being overweight, although it does tend to encourage weight gain. Acne can be caused by high insulin and resulting production of too many male hormones.

Did you have your LH/FSH ratio tested? I would recommend reading about that at SoulCysters medical testing FAQs http://www.soulcysters.com/ that was the clearest source the last I researched this issue for a friend (admittedly quite some time ago).


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
So this is the quote from the test:

If you EXCRETE 90% or more and are taking no iodine supplementation you may have one of 3 problems:

1. A symporter defect
2. Iodine organification problem
3. High bromide levels

I guess if I had taken the bromide portion of the test I could rule in/out #3 but I didn't. So how to I rule in/out 1 or 2? I don't have great external sources of iodine since we don't use table salt (use sea salt) & I don't eat a lot of sea vegetables.

Oh okay, I didn't know that! I don't know w/o further testing and I know that is a crap answer. This can be so unnecessarily complex.

I forget, did you have bromide detox symptoms?

Is #2 having Hashimoto's, anti TPO antibodies?


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## Toolip

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
And seaweed contains phytogestrogens which inhibit iodine.









Does that mean that kelp is not a good source of iodine?


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Adrenals and thyroid go hand in hand. That other _Wise Traditions_ article on their interrelation looked really good. I have to go back and read it and will post anything interesting.

Yes, please post! The information you've been sharing is so helpful. I did know about the link between the two, but have been unsure about how to proceed.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Hmmmm.... hypo- then hyper- ... I forget have you been tested for antibodies? Hashimoto's will cause a seesaw effect between the two conditions.

Yes, I was tested for antibodies and there were none. But is it possible that someone could be "working toward" Hashimoto's? I think that was last tested a few years ago -- I'm not sure my latest doctor tested this but I'll be sure to make sure she does at my next appointment. I mean, you don't go from having a perfectly normally-functioning thyroid one day and full-blown Hashi's the next, do you? Although I was thinking maybe it was the Armour that screwed things up for me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
As far as "PCOS" or not goes, I imagine you don't have to have the full blown syndrome to have problems with insulin causing amenorrhea. It's thought to be the high insulin that messes with your FSH that causes cysts on ovaries. b/c they don't fully "pop" and release the egg. And you can have high insulin without being overweight, although it does tend to encourage weight gain. Acne can be caused by high insulin and resulting production of too many male hormones.

Did you have your LH/FSH ratio tested? I would recommend reading about that at SoulCysters medical testing FAQs http://www.soulcysters.com/ that was the clearest source the last I researched this issue for a friend (admittedly quite some time ago).

Thank you for this. I just have this suspicion that it's insulin-related, and I know that all the hormones work together. Not sure about the LH/FSH ratio. I will look into that!


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## mama2leila

JaneS, I'm not yet feeling better. I actually had a physician put me on temporarily antianxiety meds, and while I am not terrified anymore, and crying all day, I am still having attacks - tightening of the chest, rapid heart beat, heart palpitations and irregular beats, the dizziness and vision anamolies seem to be lessening but I'm extremly fatigued (could be in part the anxiety meds). I am not doing the salt flushes since I am having so many issues with my heart right now. I'm still not able to stomach the vitamin C. These attacks last 2 hours, and sometimes there's only an hour or so in between. Any ideas how long this will last? I see my chiro tomorrow morning, and an acupuncturist on Tuesday (thank Tanya, for the recommendation). I can't shake this fear that I've permanently damaged my heart. I can say I WILL NOT be going back to the iodine, I don't think it's right for my body.

eta - the doc I saw on friday tested my TSH and said it was in the normal range. I can't remember the number she told me, I was in the middle of a panic attack when she called with the results.


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## mom61508

JaneS,

someone posted saying that big bags under eyes can be a sign of hypothyoid what are your thoughts on this?
DD has always had what looks like bags under eyes every am. They look really puffy. She's 13mo I'm concerned


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## neverdoingitagain

I have always had bags under my eyes(not to mention dark under eye circles). My 2 children are the same way. My dd1 is currently battling a stuffed nose. It seems like its always been like this and nothing we do helps. There are quite a few thyroid issues in my family. My maternal grandmother had hyper, my mat. great gma had goiter, my sister was born with half a thyroid. On my dh's side, his mother had hypo, he has hypo(He doesn't have bags under his eyes though). It just seems logical that we would have issues with our thyroid, yet the test come out normal.
I still haven't got an answer from the company that made my lugol's solution. All it says on the bottle is 'strong lugol's solution'







helpful.
I'm glad I subscribed to this thread, its at least given me a direction to look to.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Toolip* 







Does that mean that kelp is not a good source of iodine?

Phytoestrogens are a controversial topic. I happened upon this fascinating article about estrogen dominance in relation to phytoestrogens. http://diamondbotanicals.com/index.p...=view&id=15&Itemid=26

_Research on soy, red clover and flax seed has shown that phytoestrogens have the following properties: 1) they have the ability to prevent the body from over-producing estrogens (ie. they act as anti-estrogens just like the synthetic cancer-preventing drugs, Tamoxiphen and Raloxifene, for preventing breast cancer and osteoporosis but without the increased risk of uterine cancer and blood clots of the synthetics); 2) they are powerful antioxidants; 3) they prevent the formation of new blood vessels that feed cancer cells (anti-angiogenic); 4) they are anti-proliferative and inhibit cancer cell growth (Setchell and Cassidy 1999).

Phytoestrogen-rich foods and supplements have been found to be efficacious for preventing and even reversing menopausal problems and osteoporosis in older women and prostate cancer in men and may turn out to be the most important cancer cures yet discovered (Bracher, F. 1997; Brinker, F. 1993/94; Stephens 1997; Rickard et al. 1998).

Phytoestrogens in other types of beans also have these properties, such as peanuts, pinto beans, chickpeas and black beans._

Additionally, *this was an informative and thought provoking article!*

(we probably need a "Phytoestrogen" thread of its own.)

Pat


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2leila* 
JaneS, I'm not yet feeling better.

Mama, consider creating an "About Me" thread, so that others can chime in when looking at the whole story. Do write up a history and we'll work from there. I believe it helps most to do the narration and see the patterns. We'll certainly have questions and food for thought to share. Include whether you have mercury fillings in your teeth, whether you are nursing, diet restrictions, cravings, sleep, supplements, testing done, medications, chronic issues, etc.

Pat


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Toolip* 







Does that mean that kelp is not a good source of iodine?

Yes it is not a good source, according to Sally Fallon and Dr. David Brownstein, two people I extremely respect for their knowledge and research. It might be "natural" but it appears there are too many problems with it for a person who already maybe deficient in iodine to depend on it to restock their bodies. Someone who is not facing a lifetime of deficiency or thyroid problem, maybe it's helpful I don't know. But it can also contain metals and bromides and other toxins. I posted more about that previously in this thread.

I also have personal experience. My diet was very high in seaweed for years, when I was eating v*gan for a long time I was a soy and a sushi and seaweed salad freak. And then when I started eating WAPF, I also did a lot of Coast of Maine kelp. But today I still have hypothyroid symptoms and am very toxic since I have a hard time with side effects from higher doses of Lugol's. Kelp obviously didn't help me and at this point I'm assuming it just made the problem worse.

I could not disagree more about phytoestrogens in soy, etc. Soy is also a potent goitrogen (anti iodine, causes goiter). See Weston Price website for more on phytoestrogens. The anti cancer, anti osteoporosis claim is total b.s. Because of the high phytic acid in soy, it prevents mineral absorption a very big health risk, in addition to the hormone problem. Pro-soy studies are funded by manufacturers and are extremely biased.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
JaneS,

someone posted saying that big bags under eyes can be a sign of hypothyoid what are your thoughts on this?
DD has always had what looks like bags under eyes every am. They look really puffy. She's 13mo I'm concerned









I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere but will keep my eyes open. I have seen it mentioned as an environmental or food allergic reaction. Is her nose stuffy? Ask dr. to check if tonsils are enlarged or sinuses inflamed.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2leila* 
JaneS, I'm not yet feeling better. I actually had a physician put me on temporarily antianxiety meds, and while I am not terrified anymore, and crying all day, I am still having attacks - tightening of the chest, rapid heart beat, heart palpitations and irregular beats, the dizziness and vision anamolies seem to be lessening but I'm extremly fatigued (could be in part the anxiety meds). I am not doing the salt flushes since I am having so many issues with my heart right now. I'm still not able to stomach the vitamin C. These attacks last 2 hours, and sometimes there's only an hour or so in between. Any ideas how long this will last? I see my chiro tomorrow morning, and an acupuncturist on Tuesday (thank Tanya, for the recommendation). I can't shake this fear that I've permanently damaged my heart. I can say I WILL NOT be going back to the iodine, I don't think it's right for my body.

eta - the doc I saw on friday tested my TSH and said it was in the normal range. I can't remember the number she told me, I was in the middle of a panic attack when she called with the results.











Hmmm.... If it was your thyroid causing this b/c of the iodine, then the TSH would show an elevation. At this point I suspect mercury. How long ago were your fillings removed? What kind of vitamin C are you taking? you cannot stomach it b/c it causes g.i. problems? You can make sodium ascorbate which is easier on the stomach by mixing ascorbic acid powder with half the amount of baking soda and water and drink when stop fizzing. Vitamin C is one of the few things that will neutralize mercury. Magnesium is essential to calm a racing heart but that caused you problems too? What kind?

The kind of sea salt you want to use is Celtic Sea Salt, it is the highest in minerals, way more than other brands. Regular processed salt is what is harmful for blood pressure, I would cut that out completely from diet.

Whether iodine moblizes mercury is still really not studied. Brownstein has shown that urine levels increase when provoked with Lugol's. I assume that could be one of my issues as well. It might be interesting to do a mercury blood test to see if it's high, but it does dissipate w/in a few days of a challenge.

I'm sure the AC will help! Hang in there!


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2leila* 
Thanks, Patty. I'm waffling now on whether to go to the doctor or not. I know they won't be very accepting of what I am doing and I really don't think they can help me. But at the same time, the heart stuff I have going on is freaking me out.

I have been avoiding this thread cause once I start I get so hooked I get distracted... so sorry for those asking questions and needing answers, although I see Pattyla has gone from asking questions to providing answers









So momma, I'm so sorry you've been feeling all these anxiety attacks, that is the most horrifying experience and it truly feels as though you are having a heart attack and trying to calm yourself during one is so difficult, trying to sleep it off makes you feel as though you might not wake... I remember this all to well after I had dd...

First of all you will not die from a panic/anxiety attack, there are many people who've gone from hypo to hyper and experience these on a daily basis. My husband is one of them and it's been 9 months since he's had one now. Coconut Oil is VERY important to have on hand for those that are experiencing anxiety attacks (until you can figure out why they are happening and correct the deficiency, still good to take anyways but you should correct it) coconut oil regulates your thyroid and taken during or at the beginning of an attack will stop it within about 10 minutes.

Now *recognizing an anxiety attack*, the muscles around your heart will feel hot then icy cold, they will alternate back and forth while at the same time spasming, you will feel short of breath and most likely terrified.

*Triggers*
They seem to come on at night time an awful lot, if you arent getting to bed by 10 you need to correct that and see how that helps. If you take your second iodine dose before bed, you need to stop, take it in the afternoon or just one dose in the morning ( the iodine stays in your body 24 hours anyways before some is excreted) if you begin to feel rundown towards the end of the day you should take only a small dose of iodine rather than the large. Certain shows or movies that are scary, though they may not normally be can often trigger an attack, turn it off and put on something funny to help take your mind off it (don't forget the coconut oil!)

Anxiety attacks are another symptom of the iodine deficiency or rather bromide toxicity, sometimes smaller doses and slowly building up your iodine levels helps and other times taking higher doses helps, every body is different in their amount requirements. As scary as it sounds, experiment, you may find what your body needs.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2leila* 
JaneS, I'm not yet feeling better. I actually had a physician put me on temporarily antianxiety meds, and while I am not terrified anymore, and crying all day, I am still having attacks - tightening of the chest, rapid heart beat, heart palpitations and irregular beats, the dizziness and vision anamolies seem to be lessening but I'm extremly fatigued (could be in part the anxiety meds). I am not doing the salt flushes since I am having so many issues with my heart right now. I'm still not able to stomach the vitamin C. These attacks last 2 hours, and sometimes there's only an hour or so in between. Any ideas how long this will last? I see my chiro tomorrow morning, and an acupuncturist on Tuesday (thank Tanya, for the recommendation). I can't shake this fear that I've permanently damaged my heart. I can say I WILL NOT be going back to the iodine, I don't think it's right for my body.

eta - the doc I saw on friday tested my TSH and said it was in the normal range. I can't remember the number she told me, I was in the middle of a panic attack when she called with the results.

One other thing I spaced on is the importance of B vitamins when supplementing, especially when you begin to have anxiety attacks, heart palpitations, etc. There are many people that are unable to take iodine till they correct the b vitamin deficiency.

Also skip the antianxiety meds, they will cause more problems for you in the long run, most of them have EXTREME withdrawl symptoms even when taken for less than a month. Also the ones I've seen have fluoride in them... what is the one you are taking btw?

Instead of the meds, take coconut oil, trust me it will work. It'll stop your attack in about 10 minutes (extra virgin coconut oil).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Thanks so much, Jane. is the bromide test to check to see how much bromide is in one's system?

It's possible I have PCOS. The endos I have seen are not willing to put that label on me, though my infertility endo said it could be a "PCOS variant," whatever that means. I don't have any of the traditional markers (overweight, excess hair) but I do tend to get acne.

I think my adrenals are messed up, too.









I had my thyroid tested a few years ago and I was within normal range but definitely on the end toward hypothyroidism. I went on Armour for about six months so when my endo tested me recently I was HYPER-thyroid. I've been off Armour for a while so I'm going to have everything retested at my next appointment.

I definitely am not someone who will just follow what her mainstream doctor says. I have another appointment next month and if I don't get any answers then I will pursue this route.

When it comes to iodine deficiency, everyone starts out hypo, most people get just enough iodine from their foods to keep them hypo, though their symptoms slowly get worse and worse and then there are the others that dont, or they get waay more heavy metals than "usual" so they then go from hypo to hyper. Hyperthyroid is also an iodine deficiency, though its more of an extreme heavy metal poisoning. I think that its more likely that you had some other dietary change that you either don't think would cause it or were completely unaware of it that caused you to bump into the hyper category.

If you have no period, are overweight and have male pattern hair growth you most certainly have PCOS... I hate that everyone wants to be tested as if those are conclusive, they aren't, what is conclusive is the symptoms... if you only had one and like 2 other symptoms I would wonder what other condition you had, however to have all three same exact symptoms is too obvious. I had PCOS growing up... though I had no clue till a few months ago when I came across it during my research into iodine and I became amazed at how many conditions can be reversed with that one little important forgotten mineral. Just before getting pg, my period became regular and the intensity of the hair growth lessened, prior to this I dropped 60 pounds over the course of 5 months... so what you can gather from that, or at least I hope was the reversal of PCOS as well as my hypothyroidism, I have seen so many symptoms and aches and pains vanish just for myself that I've lost count.

*Thyroid and adrenals* go hand in hand, when your thyroid is not getting the food it needs (iodine) it stops functioning and begins to atrophy, you adrenals try to pick up the slack for a while but that only wears them out, your body can only produce that amount of adrenaline for so long and thats when adrenal fatigue kicks in.

For those of you wondering if you are deficient, take a look at your symptoms first off, then know that 95% of Americans are iodine deficient. How can I say this? Well I read it somewhere though I can't find it now... grrr.

But *if you don't supplement iodine AND*

*Drink fluoridated or chlorinated water or used to
*taken a shower in "treated" tap water
*been vaccinated
*went swimming in a chlorinated pool or brominated spa
*eaten bread without being sure it's a brand that doesnt brominate
*drink or used to any kind of citrus beverage (BVO)
*had or have mercury fillings or amalgams

Then you ARE deficient, and how do I know that? well you're body does not have the ability to excrete these metals without the one whose place they are taking, IODINE.

Now whether you are or aren't deficient, you still need to get at LEAST 12.5mg per day. So let that be a goal for all those interested in getting or staying healthy.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

One last thing...

Stop testing your thyroid levels, that test is inaccurate and USELESS. The old fashioned traditional way is the best, check your symptoms, if they fit, they fit what more do you need?


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
If you have no period, are overweight and have male pattern hair growth you most certainly have PCOS... I hate that everyone wants to be tested as if those are conclusive, they aren't, what is conclusive is the symptoms... if you only had one and like 2 other symptoms I would wonder what other condition you had, however to have all three same exact symptoms is too obvious.

Not to discount what you're saying, because I think it could still be PCOS, but I am not overweight and I do not have issues with hair growth. It's *just* the lack of menstruation and some acne (particularly when I eat a lot of grains & sugar). Just wanted to clarify.









I think I'm going to read Dr. Brownstein's book, order the tests and the iodine so I'm ready to go, see my endo one more time and discuss this with her just to give her the benefit of the doubt, and then pursue the tests & supplementing if she has no other answers for me. I have about 3.5 more weeks until my next appointment.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
One other thing I spaced on is the importance of B vitamins when supplementing, especially when you begin to have anxiety attacks, heart palpitations, etc. There are many people that are unable to take iodine till they correct the b vitamin deficiency.

Also skip the antianxiety meds, they will cause more problems for you in the long run, most of them have EXTREME withdrawl symptoms even when taken for less than a month. Also the ones I've seen have fluoride in them... what is the one you are taking btw?

Instead of the meds, take coconut oil, trust me it will work. It'll stop your attack in about 10 minutes (extra virgin coconut oil).

On CO, I've been taking a T daily for over a week. The first fw times it agreed with me fine but the past 3 times it has not. Yesterday it made me nauseas for a short period and the day before I was in the bathroom for 20 minutes







Any ideas? I've been melting it then drinking in juice. I don't care to do in a smoothie.

When it comes to iodine deficiency, everyone starts out hypo, most people get just enough iodine from their foods to keep them hypo, though their symptoms slowly get worse and worse and then there are the others that dont, or they get waay more heavy metals than "usual" so they then go from hypo to hyper. Hyperthyroid is also an iodine deficiency, though its more of an extreme heavy metal poisoning. I think that its more likely that you had some other dietary change that you either don't think would cause it or were completely unaware of it that caused you to bump into the hyper category.

If you have no period, are overweight and have male pattern hair growth you most certainly have PCOS... I hate that everyone wants to be tested as if those are conclusive, they aren't, what is conclusive is the symptoms... if you only had one and like 2 other symptoms I would wonder what other condition you had, however to have all three same exact symptoms is too obvious. I had PCOS growing up... though I had no clue till a few months ago when I came across it during my research into iodine and I became amazed at how many conditions can be reversed with that one little important forgotten mineral. Just before getting pg, my period became regular and the intensity of the hair growth lessened, prior to this I dropped 60 pounds over the course of 5 months... so what you can gather from that, or at least I hope was the reversal of PCOS as well as my hypothyroidism, I have seen so many symptoms and aches and pains vanish just for myself that I've lost count.

*Thyroid and adrenals* go hand in hand, when your thyroid is not getting the food it needs (iodine) it stops functioning and begins to atrophy, you adrenals try to pick up the slack for a while but that only wears them out, your body can only produce that amount of adrenaline for so long and thats when adrenal fatigue kicks in.

For those of you wondering if you are deficient, take a look at your symptoms first off, then know that 95% of Americans are iodine deficient. How can I say this? Well I read it somewhere though I can't find it now... grrr.

But *if you don't supplement iodine AND*

*Drink fluoridated or chlorinated water or used to
*taken a shower in "treated" tap water
*been vaccinated
*went swimming in a chlorinated pool or brominated spa
*eaten bread without being sure it's a brand that doesnt brominate
*drink or used to any kind of citrus beverage (BVO)
*had or have mercury fillings or amalgams

Then you ARE deficient, and how do I know that? well you're body does not have the ability to excrete these metals without the one whose place they are taking, IODINE.

Now whether you are or aren't deficient, you still need to get at LEAST 12.5mg per day. So let that be a goal for all those interested in getting or staying healthy.

On CO, I've been taking a T daily for over a week. The first fw times it agreed with me fine but the past 3 times it has not. Yesterday it made me nauseas for a short period and the day before I was in the bathroom for 20 minutes







Any ideas? I've been melting it then drinking in juice. I don't care to do in a smoothie.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere but will keep my eyes open. I have seen it mentioned as an environmental or food allergic reaction. Is her nose stuffy? Ask dr. to check if tonsils are enlarged or sinuses inflamed.

Maybe it was the thyroid thread i get them confused








Her nose is not stuffy and last Dr check up her nose was fine but havent checked tonsils.I thought cutting out gluten might have helped and maybe it still will I've been off it for a little over a week.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
On CO, I've been taking a T daily for over a week. The first fw times it agreed with me fine but the past 3 times it has not. Yesterday it made me nauseas for a short period and the day before I was in the bathroom for 20 minutes







Any ideas? I've been melting it then drinking in juice. I don't care to do in a smoothie.

Some people do need to slowly up their intake of it, others just get grossed out by it... I always had mine on toast with cinnamon and sugar, you can try that... although when taking it for an anxiety attack it is best to take it straight and let it melt in your mouth, giving it a chance to be absorbed in your mouth (fastest) before swallowing.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
Some people do need to slowly up their intake of it, others just get grossed out by it... I always had mine on toast with cinnamon and sugar, you can try that... although when taking it for an anxiety attack it is best to take it straight and let it melt in your mouth, giving it a chance to be absorbed in your mouth (fastest) before swallowing.

I don't do gluten but that sounds yummy


----------



## mom61508

Ok so If you have a high TSH that always means iodine deficiency?


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
Coconut Oil is VERY important to have on hand for those that are experiencing anxiety attacks (until you can figure out why they are happening and correct the deficiency, still good to take anyways but you should correct it) coconut oil regulates your thyroid and taken during or at the beginning of an attack will stop it within about 10 minutes.


*Caution!* This mama has mercury issues and coconut oil could release more mercury into circulation by killing off candida in the gut. Candida stores mercury to protect us from circulating toxic levels. She recently had many mercury fillings removed, in addition to having them removed previously without protocol.

I would NOT take coconut oil, in this mama's case.

Pat


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
On CO, I've been taking a T daily for over a week. The first fw times it agreed with me fine but the past 3 times it has not. Yesterday it made me nauseas for a short period and the day before I was in the bathroom for 20 minutes







Any ideas? I've been melting it then drinking in juice. I don't care to do in a smoothie.

Mama, I advise against large doses of CO with mercury issues. Gradually work up from 1 teaspoon over the course of a month to a second. But, only in conjunction with vit C, selenium, magnesium, clay or zeolite, especially if you are nursing, as you'll just be dumping mercury into baby.

Pat


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Mama, I advise against large doses of CO with mercury issues. Gradually work up from 1 teaspoon over the course of a month to a second. But, only in conjunction with vit C, selenium, magnesium, clay or zeolite, especially if you are nursing, as you'll just be dumping mercury into baby.

Pat

So I should assume I have mercury issues? Yes i am nursing too arrrrr this is so confusing. When I think i'm doing something right i'm not! I'm only taking selenium,siberian ginseng and a multi. Im so unsure of brands to trust for the other supps you mentioned i put of buying them. Oh ya was taking natural calm for but it wasn't agreeing with me.
What do you take for C, mag and zeolite???

-thank you Pat for the caution as well


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Mama, I advise against large doses of CO with mercury issues. Gradually work up from 1 teaspoon over the course of a month to a second. But, only in conjunction with vit C, selenium, magnesium, clay or zeolite, especially if you are nursing, as you'll just be dumping mercury into baby.

Pat

So I should assume I have mercury issues? Yes i am nursing too arrrrr this is so confusing. When I think i'm doing something right i'm not! I'm only taking selenium,siberian ginseng and a multi. Im so unsure of brands to trust for the other supps you mentioned i put of buying them. Oh ya was taking natural calm for mag but it wasn't agreeing with me.
What do you take for C, mag and zeolite???

-thank you Pat for the caution as well


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Mama, I advise against large doses of CO with mercury issues. Gradually work up from 1 teaspoon over the course of a month to a second. But, only in conjunction with vit C, selenium, magnesium, clay or zeolite, especially if you are nursing, as you'll just be dumping mercury into baby.

Pat

I have not come across this in any of my readings but will definitely look into it, thanks for the heads up!

BTW all that is needed for an attack is 1 teaspoon, for others who haven't taken any even less than that will work. My husband took only 1/4 teaspoon for the first week and it stopped it every time, after that we began the iodine and his anxiety attacks stopped, though he was only taking a couple drops of liquid dulse per day so very VERY little on the iodine, he took 3 months to work up to 6.75mg of iodine and another 2 months before taking 32.5mg.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
So I should assume I have mercury issues? Yes i am nursing too arrrrr this is so confusing. When I think i'm doing something right i'm not! I'm only taking selenium,siberian ginseng and a multi. Im so unsure of brands to trust for the other supps you mentioned i put of buying them. Oh ya was taking natural calm for but it wasn't agreeing with me.
What do you take for C, mag and zeolite???

-thank you Pat for the caution as well









Sorry, I had you confused with *mama2leila*. I don't know about any mercury issues for _you_???

I use whole foods for nutrients. I've liked Natural Calm. I'm not yet certain about zeolite. Tanya has some vit C suggestions, I believe.

Pat


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Sorry, I had you confused with *mama2leila*. I don't know about any mercury issues for _you_???

I use whole foods for nutrients. I've liked Natural Calm. I'm not yet certain about zeolite. Tanya has some vit C suggestions, I believe.

Pat

I do pefer WF as well but how do you know when your getting enough when your probably deficient? Ya know so what and how much of a food to eat daily for enough mag?








So you don't take zeolite?


----------



## bluets

another good iodine piece: http://www.thorne.com/media/Iodine13-2.pdf


----------



## Imara

but I have read the whole thread and I have been on iodine for about 2 weeks and I take two of the 12.5mg pillls. I started out with one of course but just jumped up to two with a very weird side effect - darkish green poo?? Has anyone else experienced this?

Thanks


----------



## moneca

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Hello dear friend! I saved the best for last.









I have read a LOT about iodine from many sources lately and that is the first time I've seen vitamin E recommended... very, very interesting! As I just referenced in my last post about about high vitamin C fixing a symporter defect, the vitamin E as an antioxidant must be doing the same thing.

What is your food source B vit supplement?

I've been doing grated chicken liver in my kefir shots instead of beef for more folate. I'm sure anyone requiring high Bs are because their detox pathways are clogged, and I sure qualify for that dx. I hear you re: traditional point of view on B complex. However, I still think that there is room for "non traditional" nutritional support to jump start a broken body. That being said I do NOT do well on high doses of ATP cofactors B2 and B3 as recommended by Brownstein. Niacin is NOT calming for me.







Weird how both mag. and niacin are supposed to do that according to conventional wisdom and doesn't for me.

If your cysts haven't improved with such a high dosage of Lugol's for so long that just tells me it's a problem with uptake (symporter), although I can't believe they are still blocked given all the hard work you have been doing with chelation!

I haven't upped my iodine again b/c I'm scared. I just don't have the bandwidth to be down and out for any length of time these days. Considering trying the Thyadine and see what happens with iodine and no iodide.

Hi old friend








How many years ago did we start this path and weren't we supposed to be done by now







?

My food source B complex :

http://www.megafood.com/products/dai..._b_complex.php

I take two per day and my NAET/acupuncturist tested that as the dose appropriate for my needs.

Yes, I've been dreading that I had a symporter issue since the first six months that did not result in detox symptoms or improvements in hypo symptoms. I didn't want to add more C while the E and then the B were increasing bromide detox. I had no desire to require more than 4 tsp of salt per day







.

Since I had been at 1/4 tsp salt every other day for a week when I read your response, I decided to add more C. I've been taking 250mg synergy radaince C twice per day. I'm not big on daily SA since it is synthetic and would rather take a food source supplement. So, I added 1600 mg SA and biflav twice per day. My bromide detox symptoms came back the second day with fatigue and forehead wrinkles. Not too bad though. I'm only taking 1 to 2 tsp salt per day and that is taking care of the fatigue/wrinkles. We'll see how long this lasts. I do think I have a symporter issue, but also wonder if part of my issue is excessive storage of halides cuz I'm so good at storing toxins







.


----------



## aris99

I've been taking 4 iodorals/day since the beginning of the summer. I had headaches/euphoria stuff early on. I think my energy increased, although this could have been due to taking magnesium as well? For the last month or so I don't really feel one way or another whether I take the iodine. I seem to have a very sluggish metabolism and I'd say I tend towards hypothyroidism.

While researching iodine a while ago I read that large amts of iodine can actually make hypothyroidism worse. I felt good on a large amt so I didn't really pay much attention. However, I recently came across some articles that stated that iodine mouth wash is counter indicated in persons w/goiter or hypothyroidism and the practice of rinsing w/providine iodine has been stopped in the UK because of the affect the iodine is having on peoples' thyroids. I think I am going to finish taking the iodine I have and probably not take anymore....anyone have any insight on this? I'd appreciate any feedback! Thanks!


----------



## linguistmama

Do you have any links Aris? I would be interested in seeing the articles too since I want to research both sides of the issue.

I am also feeling really sluggish, but it's because I take natural calm magnesium for migraines. I tried taking a smaller dose and not taking it at all, but then the headaches come back. I'm taking the minimum I can take without getting a migraine which is 1 tsp a day. But even when I took 3 tsp a day I still wasn't at bowel tolerance. Does anyone have any ideas? I really need to figure something out, as the day goes on it gets harder and harder to get myself to do things!


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
*Thyroid and adrenals* go hand in hand, when your thyroid is not getting the food it needs (iodine) it stops functioning and begins to atrophy, you adrenals try to pick up the slack for a while but that only wears them out, your body can only produce that amount of adrenaline for so long and thats when adrenal fatigue kicks in.

I just came across this as well.

Dr. Bruce Rind wrote one of the articles on Low Metabolism/Thyroid/Adrenals in recent _Wise Traditions_ that I referenced above. He says that treating the thyroid in patients with low adrenal function results in a "crash and burn" for exactly this reason that Nicole mentions.

His site has some of the info that is in his article, which is fabulous. I made many connections.

Metabolic Therapy
http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-therapy

Thyroid Scale
http://www.drrind.com/therapies/thyroid-scale-matrix

Temp Graph
http://www.drrind.com/therapies/meta...perature-graph


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aris99* 
I've been taking 4 iodorals/day since the beginning of the summer. I had headaches/euphoria stuff early on. I think my energy increased, although this could have been due to taking magnesium as well? For the last month or so I don't really feel one way or another whether I take the iodine. I seem to have a very sluggish metabolism and I'd say I tend towards hypothyroidism.

While researching iodine a while ago I read that large amts of iodine can actually make hypothyroidism worse. I felt good on a large amt so I didn't really pay much attention. However, I recently came across some articles that stated that iodine mouth wash is counter indicated in persons w/goiter or hypothyroidism and the practice of rinsing w/providine iodine has been stopped in the UK because of the affect the iodine is having on peoples' thyroids. I think I am going to finish taking the iodine I have and probably not take anymore....anyone have any insight on this? I'd appreciate any feedback! Thanks!

Back up and read what Brownstein and Abraham say about this in links provided, esp. The Iodine Debate. Iodine has a long history of usage. And it would seem to me ludicrous that since goiter is caused by low iodine, and can be cured by taking iodine, that it is contraindicated. But there are many other factors including lack of companion nutrients, function of adrenals and possible auto immune disorders and toxic exposure (fluoride, bromide, perchlorate) that make it more complex of an issue than just thinking that taking large amounts of iodine/iodide cures everything.

Abraham's research page at www.Optimox.com specifically addresses why mainstream medicine says that high iodine damages the thyroid.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Not to discount what you're saying, because I think it could still be PCOS, but I am not overweight and I do not have issues with hair growth. It's *just* the lack of menstruation and some acne (particularly when I eat a lot of grains & sugar). Just wanted to clarify.









I think I'm going to read Dr. Brownstein's book, order the tests and the iodine so I'm ready to go, see my endo one more time and discuss this with her just to give her the benefit of the doubt, and then pursue the tests & supplementing if she has no other answers for me. I have about 3.5 more weeks until my next appointment.

I think to term it 'PCOS or not' is not a good way to think about it.

Insulin resistance (which many believe is the foundation of PCOS) causing high insulin response to high blood sugar messes with your hormones in general. That is, if you eat high glycemic regularly, and you have insulin resistance, your adrenals, progesterone, thyroid, etc. *all* will be effected regardless if you have the pattern of a particular syndrome. Even if you do not have weight gain it doesn't necessarily mean insulin is not messing with your FSH/LH and causing menstruation problems and hormonal acne.

The intriguing thing is that clinical experience has found that iodine reduces need for insulin in diabetics. And since your thyroid regulates all of the body's hormone production, there is a connection.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 

The intriguing thing is that clinical experience has found that iodine reduces need for insulin in diabetics. And since your thyroid regulates all of the body's hormone production, there is a connection.

Do you have any (easily accessible) links about this? I have a friend with new onset diabetes and I wonder if iodine could help. I doubt his thyroid was checked properly.

Pat


----------



## bluets

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
Do you have any links Aris? I would be interested in seeing the articles too since I want to research both sides of the issue.

I am also feeling really sluggish, but it's because I take natural calm magnesium for migraines. I tried taking a smaller dose and not taking it at all, but then the headaches come back. I'm taking the minimum I can take without getting a migraine which is 1 tsp a day. But even when I took 3 tsp a day I still wasn't at bowel tolerance. Does anyone have any ideas? I really need to figure something out, as the day goes on it gets harder and harder to get myself to do things!

anything that is anti-inflammatory should help.... Evening primrose or borage oil especially. fresh grated turmeric root makes a great anti-inflammatory tea - and is surprisingly mild tasting (but makes a mess of the food processor and any jars used for steeping!). you can mix with dried reishi mushroom powder (a good source is mushroomharvest.com).

have you tried acupuncture or cranial sacral therapy?


----------



## Lilcrunchie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Not to discount what you're saying, because I think it could still be PCOS, but I am not overweight and I do not have issues with hair growth. It's *just* the lack of menstruation and some acne (particularly when I eat a lot of grains & sugar). Just wanted to clarify.









I think I'm going to read Dr. Brownstein's book, order the tests and the iodine so I'm ready to go, see my endo one more time and discuss this with her just to give her the benefit of the doubt, and then pursue the tests & supplementing if she has no other answers for me. I have about 3.5 more weeks until my next appointment.

I'm lurking here reading about iodine, but I have PCOS, and am not overweight (in fact, prior to getting my diagnosis years ago I was told I would likely ovulate if I gained weight...my BMI was actually normal though...20 at the time). I left that OB/GYN rapidly and found a good RE.

PCOS is a syndrome, so the symptoms are very mix and match. You don't have to be overweight and hairy to have PCOS. I have a little hair, but I also have very very dark hair (my hair on my head is a very dark brown) so that is a factor. I am not overweight at all. I do have elevated androgens including free testosterone, DHEA-S, androstenedione, etc. and anovlatory/irregular cycles. I don't have acne, acanthosis nigricans, etc.

With DS I had to do injectables, IUI etc. to get pregnant. My DD is the result of metformin and eating a low carb diet. I don't technically test positive for insulin resistance, but the tests used are not that sensitive. On 2000 mg of metformin and a traditional foods/lower carb/paleoish diet I ovulate and cycle a bit on my own. I also do D (some studies have shown low levels of D may be tied to diabetes, IR, PCOS...that whole end of the spectrum) and magnesium and calcium supplementation (some people think Ca/Mg issues cause the follicular arrest so common w/ PCOS).

I'm not an expert at treating it holistically (since I use metformin) but I wanted to point out only about half of women w/ PCOS are overweight. YOu don't need to have a lot of hair, or thinning scalp hair, etc. to have PCOS.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
you can mix with dried reishi mushroom powder (a good source is mushroomharvest.com).

OT: do you have more information about 'medicinal mushrooms'? (links) I know that David Wolfe is championing them. And found them recommended in the National Cancer Institute site. But, none by specific name. I recall David mentioned reishi mushrooms, don't recall the others.

Pat


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lilcrunchie* 
I'm lurking here reading about iodine, but I have PCOS, and am not overweight (in fact, prior to getting my diagnosis years ago I was told I would likely ovulate if I gained weight...my BMI was actually normal though...20 at the time). I left that OB/GYN rapidly and found a good RE.

PCOS is a syndrome, so the symptoms are very mix and match. You don't have to be overweight and hairy to have PCOS. I have a little hair, but I also have very very dark hair (my hair on my head is a very dark brown) so that is a factor. I am not overweight at all. I do have elevated androgens including free testosterone, DHEA-S, androstenedione, etc. and anovlatory/irregular cycles. I don't have acne, acanthosis nigricans, etc.

With DS I had to do injectables, IUI etc. to get pregnant. My DD is the result of metformin and eating a low carb diet. I don't technically test positive for insulin resistance, but the tests used are not that sensitive. On 2000 mg of metformin and a traditional foods/lower carb/paleoish diet I ovulate and cycle a bit on my own. I also do D (some studies have shown low levels of D may be tied to diabetes, IR, PCOS...that whole end of the spectrum) and magnesium and calcium supplementation (some people think Ca/Mg issues cause the follicular arrest so common w/ PCOS).

I'm not an expert at treating it holistically (since I use metformin) but I wanted to point out only about half of women w/ PCOS are overweight. YOu don't need to have a lot of hair, or thinning scalp hair, etc. to have PCOS.

Thanks for your response. I do know that you don't have to have all the markers to have PCOS. But I also know that there's no real way of diagnosing PCOS.

I'd also read that supplementing vitamin D in women who had PCOS and were low in D caused many of the women to ovulate and even get pregnant, according to one study. I *did* menstruate on my own three times a few years ago (VERY unusual especially since my son was still nursing) and I'm wondering if it was the high-vitamin CLO I'd been taking.

I tried metformin too, and it did nothing for me. But it's great that it worked for you! We had to do IVF to have our son, and I'd really love to conceive naturally now.


----------



## moneca

Has anyone else here found that they have become photosensitive while having bromide detox symptoms? I've found my level of photosensitivity correlates to how many tsp of sea salt my body needs. I can't find anything to link the two other than my own experience.


----------



## aris99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
Do you have any links Aris? I would be interested in seeing the articles too since I want to research both sides of the issue.

I am also feeling really sluggish, but it's because I take natural calm magnesium for migraines. I tried taking a smaller dose and not taking it at all, but then the headaches come back. I'm taking the minimum I can take without getting a migraine which is 1 tsp a day. But even when I took 3 tsp a day I still wasn't at bowel tolerance. Does anyone have any ideas? I really need to figure something out, as the day goes on it gets harder and harder to get myself to do things!

Hi,

I used to take Natural Calm and still do take the cal mag on occasion BUT I switched to magnesium glycinate because I couldn't take more than 1 teaspoon of nat. calm w/out diarrhea. I find that the mag. glycinate does not make me as sleepy and I don't get diarrhea w/it. I'm taking 600mg a day.

As for the iodine....I came across several "articles" recently....like this....

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100002965.html

that suggest that iodine is contraindicated for people who are hypothyroid.

As Jane said though, there are many factors to be considered when taking iodine. I, personally, don't feel that I am benefiting from large doses anymore (it REALLY helped for a while there) so I may cut back to 1 iodoral 3x a week. I am getting the feeling that it is good to take high doses periodically but not long term...I just wanted to verify.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Do you have any (easily accessible) links about this? I have a friend with new onset diabetes and I wonder if iodine could help. I doubt his thyroid was checked properly.

Pat

Orthoiodosupplementation in a Primary Care Practice
Jorge D. Flechas, M.D.
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-10/IOD_10.htm

Flechas website: www.helpmythyroid.com it seems like he may do phone consultations.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca* 
Has anyone else here found that they have become photosensitive while having bromide detox symptoms? I've found my level of photosensitivity correlates to how many tsp of sea salt my body needs. I can't find anything to link the two other than my own experience.

Maybe ask at the Iodine Yahoo Group?


----------



## JaneS

Quote:

*Chromium and PCOS*
Chromium is an essential trace mineral that is needed for insulin activity in carbohydrate, fat and protein metabolism. Optimal levels may reduce insulin resistance, improve blood sugar control, and may help to reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease and type 2 diabetes. Supplementation may also help to reduce triglycerides and total cholesterol while improving HDL "good" cholesterol.

A chromium insufficiency may result in insulin resistance. Animal experiments have shown that a chromium deficiency results in insulin resistance, and that its supplementation reduces their insulin resistance.

In humans, there also seems to be an association between insulin resistance and chromium status. Evidence also suggests that individuals consuming diets with the lowest amounts of chromium tend to have disruptions in glucose and insulin regulation.
Much more at this website...
http://www.ovarian-cysts-pcos.com/chromium.html


----------



## bluets

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
OT: do you have more information about 'medicinal mushrooms'? (links) I know that David Wolfe is championing them. And found them recommended in the National Cancer Institute site. But, none by specific name. I recall David mentioned reishi mushrooms, don't recall the others.

Pat

my acupuncturist/TCM/raw food practitioner recommends reishi as a daily additive to smoothies for general health, but he also claims that it is anti-inflammatory. Dr. Rind's website recommends cordyceps as it apparently helps support adrenals. i tried cordyceps for a bit but i can't for the life of me remember to do supplements beyond those at breakfast - and the capsules are suggested as a 3x per day sorta deal.

given that mushrooms are high in the B's, i can see about the adrenal connection.

however, i haven't actually researched them myself - too busy with some coursework at the moment.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Here is another iodine info link rich with info, more specifically for some of the *mommas having trouble conceiving*

"Deficiency of iodine seems to cause more damage in developing embryos and in fact, in pregnant women iodine deficiency causes abortions and stillborns [xxi]. It is not cretinism alone that holds risks from deficiency, but the very survival of the infant itself. Adequate iodine may also provide protection from infection and vaccine damage. In a study done on 617 infants between the ages of 6 weeks and six months, in an iodine deficient area, it was shown that with the addition of 100 mg of iodine oil to the diet of newborns, that the death rate of infants was markedly lower than for those without any supplementation"

"Iodine deficiency poses significant additional reproductive risks, including overt hypothyroidism and infertility. Hypothyroidism causes anovulation, infertility, and gestational hypertension. [xxiii] Adequate tissue iodine helps guide estrogen into friendly pathways that support proper function of female sex hormones. Iodine contributes to the formation of testosterone. In women this supports healthy sex drive. In men, testosterone is vital to function. "

Oh and for the *mommas worried about too much iodine*...

"Magnesium and iodine deficiencies are the
causes of autoimmune thyroiditis, not excess iodide."

"Iodine and/or selenium deficiency may modify
the distribution and the homeostasis of other minerals. "

"Every 17 minutes, every drop of blood in our body flushes through
our thyroid, and if our thyroid has an adequate supply of iodine, blood-borne
bacteria and viruses are killed off as the blood passes through the thyroid."

LOTS of good stuff at the site! Check it out!


----------



## ChristSavesAll

One other thing...

" iodine is a heart stimulant, and if you are using thyroid medication, or other stimulant drugs in addition, then that may be too much stimulation and heart palpitations may develop. In this case you need to reduce some of these stimulants sufficiently to rectify this problem. "


----------



## ghostlykisses

This is very interesting and I will have to read more about it.

My husband's grandmother lives with us. She is 75 and is on a buffet of medications. She is diabetic, has thyroid issues, bad digestion, has had blot clots and heart issues, had breast cancer removed a few months ago, ect ect ect. Her diet has been not so good and because of her heart she has never used salt in anything. I know that the reading said table salt is not the best place to get iodine but I have to think that if that is one of the few ways modern people get any she has been missing out. I am going to bring this up with her dr next time we go in, although I am not sure the dr will know anything about it.

Thank you for your time and work to post all this info. I will do more reading later.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

More...

"Iodine is essential for the synthesis of thyroid hormone, but selenium-dependent enzymes (iodothyronine deiodinases) are also required for the conversion of thyroxine (T4) to the biologically active thyroid hormone, triiodothyronine (T3). Selenium is the primary mineral responsible for T4 to T3 (thyroid hormones) conversion in the liver. (Selenium is absolutely essential in the age of mercury toxicity for it is the perfect antidote for mercury exposure. It is literally raining mercury all over the world but especially in the northern hemisphere. And of course with the dentists poisoning a world of patients with mercury dental amalgam and the doctors with their mercury laden vaccines, selenium is more important than most of us can imagine. One must remember that mercury strips the body of selenium for the selenium stores get used up quickly because of its great affinity for mercury)"

"Iodine is needed in microgram amounts for the thyroid,
mg amounts for breast and other tissues, and can
be used therapeutically in gram amounts "


----------



## ChristSavesAll

"Iodine transport damage can be corrected, in part, by administration
of reasonably high doses of ascorbic acid or more natural Vitamin C"


----------



## ChristSavesAll

" Iodine intake immediately increases the excretion of bromide, fluoride,
and some heavy metals including mercury and lead. Bromide and
fluoride are not removed by any other chelator or detoxifying technique."

" Chloride competes with bromide at the renal level and increases the renal clearance of bromide[xii] thus magnesium chloride is ideal for magnesium supplementation. Some patients require up to 2 years of iodine therapy to bring post loading urine bromide levels below 10 mg/24 hr, if chloride load is not included in the bromine detoxification program. Rapid mobilization of bromine from storage sites with orthoiodosupplementation combined with increased renal clearance of bromide with a chloride load often causes side effects. Increasing fluid intake and adding a complete nutritional program minimizes these side effects."

http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/Liodine2.htm

Magnesium chloride is the only form of magnesium known to have anti-infectious properties. When it comes to fighting infections, iodine and magnesium chloride are a dynamic duo that should not be overlooked by allopathic or naturopathic physicians or by anyone else. I talked a few months ago to a missionary in Africa who was using iodine (in the atomic or detoxified form) to successfully treat malaria. My own children have recently had bad coughs and it is iodine, not dangerous over-the-counter cough medicines I reach for.

http://www.rawfreedomcommunity.info/...ead.php?t=3128


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
One other thing...

" iodine is a heart stimulant, and if you are using thyroid medication, or other stimulant drugs in addition, then that may be too much stimulation and heart palpitations may develop. In this case you need to reduce some of these stimulants sufficiently to rectify this problem. "

I have had heart palpatations for years without supping iodine.Been on thyroid med for about a year. Is that from a lack of Mag? They come and go and I usually only feel them at night.
I'm so confused on iodine. I did the dulse for awhile but not convinced the there's a liquid brand that's entirely pure to use so I stopped taking the dulse.


----------



## bluets

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
I have had heart palpatations for years without supping iodine.Been on thyroid med for about a year. Is that from a lack of Mag? They come and go and I usually only feel them at night.
I'm so confused on iodine. I did the dulse for awhile but not convinced the there's a liquid brand that's entirely pure to use so I stopped taking the dulse.

my dh gets heart palps and anxiety attacks when he is mag deficient.


----------



## dannic

Not sure where to post this--adrenal fatigue, thyroid or here, lol. Things were going okay for a while, not perfect, but better. The past two weeks have been very tough though. Any help would be appreciated...xposted in my thread in the allergies forum that has my whole history if anyone is in for some reading.








My nd started me on naturethroid two weeks ago and I felt really good about it. (After doing adrenal support for two months) I've gained nine pounds since MAY and I'm still really tired and sluggish. Well, that week, I lowered my iodoral to 25 mgs (from 50), added in Naturethroid and took kefir after a week off. Then began the panic attacks and anxiety and headaches AND so TIRED all the time. So we slowed down to one iodoral in the evening and half a grain naturethroid in the morning and I laid off the mycostat and kefir...we thought I was detoxing too fast.
Now I'm having worse panic attacks. I had kefir today (still only taking a tsp/day) and I'm beginning to wonder if I'm reacting to the water kefir? All my headaches correspond to kefir taking...could it bring on panic attacks? Any ideas, suggestions, help would be so appreciated.









BTW, ny nd was so amazed when I told her I was taking 50 mg Iodoral...she is familiar with the big iodine guys, but thought I ought to have run it ll by her first...I'm just not used to having a partner in health, lol.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
Now I'm having worse panic attacks. I had kefir today (still only taking a tsp/day) and I'm beginning to wonder if I'm reacting to the water kefir? All my headaches correspond to kefir taking...could it bring on panic attacks? Any ideas, suggestions, help would be so appreciated.










I've not heard of panic attacks with kefir.

Mercury fillings? Lead issues? Other antifungals? Is the mycostat topical. When are you taking the kefir, when the Naturethroid and Iodoral? There is a delayed absorption with the supplements, less so with sublingual, however.

Pat


----------



## desertpenguin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I could not disagree more about phytoestrogens in soy, etc. Soy is also a potent goitrogen (anti iodine, causes goiter). See Weston Price website for more on phytoestrogens.

i'm finding all of this so confusing. i have no doubts that i'm iodine deficient. i have had my thyroid tested twice this year and it came back "normal" both times. i'm going later this week to get my records so i can find out my exact numbers. one of my friends was discussing this with me and brought up excessive testosterone. i looked at it and found i had some symptoms of it, but thought they could be explained by other things. then i looked up low estrogen and i have a ton of the symptoms (including horribly sagging breasts even though i'm only 23 and not large breasted







). so i think i need more phytoestrogens, and more iodine...not going to do soy though as we have an intolerance anyways. are you just against soy, and not all phytoestrogens in general?


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
I have had heart palpatations for years without supping iodine... Is that from a lack of Mag? They come and go and I usually only feel them at night.

Yes according to Dr. Carolyn Dean, her book on magnesium is one of the best sources.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
Not sure where to post this--adrenal fatigue, thyroid or here, lol. Things were going okay for a while, not perfect, but better. The past two weeks have been very tough though. Any help would be appreciated...xposted in my thread in the allergies forum that has my whole history if anyone is in for some reading.








My nd started me on naturethroid two weeks ago and I felt really good about it. (After doing adrenal support for two months) I've gained nine pounds since MAY and I'm still really tired and sluggish. Well, that week, I lowered my iodoral to 25 mgs (from 50), added in Naturethroid and took kefir after a week off. Then began the panic attacks and anxiety and headaches AND so TIRED all the time. So we slowed down to one iodoral in the evening and half a grain naturethroid in the morning and I laid off the mycostat and kefir...we thought I was detoxing too fast.
Now I'm having worse panic attacks. I had kefir today (still only taking a tsp/day) and I'm beginning to wonder if I'm reacting to the water kefir? All my headaches correspond to kefir taking...could it bring on panic attacks? Any ideas, suggestions, help would be so appreciated.









BTW, ny nd was so amazed when I told her I was taking 50 mg Iodoral...she is familiar with the big iodine guys, but thought I ought to have run it ll by her first...I'm just not used to having a partner in health, lol.









Awesome re: your ND!

I would guess detoxing. I would not think it was the kefir. Are you taking magnesium? That helps greatly w/ panic attacks. See above re: headaches as a result of bromide excretion, and celtic sea salt flushes.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *desertpenguin* 
i'm finding all of this so confusing. i have no doubts that i'm iodine deficient. i have had my thyroid tested twice this year and it came back "normal" both times. i'm going later this week to get my records so i can find out my exact numbers. one of my friends was discussing this with me and brought up excessive testosterone. i looked at it and found i had some symptoms of it, but thought they could be explained by other things. then i looked up low estrogen and i have a ton of the symptoms (including horribly sagging breasts even though i'm only 23 and not large breasted







). so i think i need more phytoestrogens, and more iodine...not going to do soy though as we have an intolerance anyways. are you just against soy, and not all phytoestrogens in general?

I was just discussing what is "normal numbers" in the Thryoid II Thread.

Excess testosterone can be tied to many things, see above re: high insulin. The more I read about the thyroid, the more I see how it is involved in production of all other hormones. I'm beginning to believe those with experience when they say it can be the base of many problems that go by other names.

I really wasn't aware of any other phytoestrogen risk in foods other than soy until Sally Fallon mentioned seaweed. I do not know if they all carry the same risk to the thyroid as soy? It seems like it though. I really do not think estrogen replacement with phytoestrogens is an answer ... I think you need to uncover the reason why, if you really are estrogen deficient, and treat that holistically instead of piecemeal.


----------



## JaneS

Also omega 3 fatty acids, vitamin E and zinc are very important for skin elasticity. If you eat a lot of vegetable oils with omega 6s, you deplete vitamin E and 3s. Most people are deficient in zinc. Stretch marks are connected to low zinc.


----------



## ChristSavesAll

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Also omega 3 fatty acids, vitamin E and zinc are very important for skin elasticity. If you eat a lot of vegetable oils with omega 6s, you deplete vitamin E and 3s. Most people are deficient in zinc. Stretch marks are connected to low zinc.

Low zinc is connected to fluoride poisoning, a.k.a. iodine deficiency.

And just to touch on the heart palpitations, they can be caused by lack of iodine, lack of magnesium, or a lack of b vitamins, this is why it is sooooo important to be sure you are tending to all your vitamin/mineral needs.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
And just to touch on the heart palpitations, they can be caused by lack of iodine, lack of magnesium, or a lack of b vitamins, this is why it is sooooo important to be sure you are tending to all your vitamin/mineral needs.

And aren't they also a symptom of too much magnesium?


----------



## desertpenguin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I was just discussing what is "normal numbers" in the Thryoid II Thread.

Excess testosterone can be tied to many things, see above re: high insulin.

I really wasn't aware of any other phytoestrogen risk in foods other than soy until Sally Fallon mentioned seaweed. I do not know if they all carry the same risk to the thyroid as soy? It seems like it though. I really do not think estrogen replacement with phytoestrogens is an answer ... I think you need to uncover the reason why, if you really are estrogen deficient, and treat that holistically instead of piecemeal.

i have issues with hypoglycemia so if i understand correctly, that would mean p/t high insulin.

i've been looking into it some more as time allows. it looks like estrogen and iodine have a close relationship, and estrogen helps increase iodine uptake. so even with supplementing iodine, if i'm low estrogen perhaps i may not absorb enough without boosting my estrogen as well. lots of foods have phytoestrogens in them. foods that increase estrogen...a more comprehensive list...and i received this link in my email today female hormones: achieving balance. i don't think that all of those foods have a negative impact on the thyroid. it wouldn't make sense to me that they do. cruciferous veggies are supposed to be goitrogenic but they also decrease estrogen levels (vs soy being goitrogenic and increasing estrogen levels) so it can go more than one way i think. in addition, many herbs are considered to be estrogenic and also very nutritious, for ex: red raspberry leaf.

sorry for derailing the thread.


----------



## desertpenguin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I really do not think estrogen replacement with phytoestrogens is an answer ... I think you need to uncover the reason why, if you really are estrogen deficient, and treat that holistically instead of piecemeal.

oh and i think i am understanding more about why i likely have high testosterone/low estrogen & progesterone in addition to all of the other health issues i am having. so i'm trying to work on everything holistically, but i don't think including more phytoestrogens is really piecemeal if i'm doing it in addition to other things.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *desertpenguin* 
oh and i think i am understanding more about why i likely have high testosterone/low estrogen & progesterone in addition to all of the other health issues i am having. so i'm trying to work on everything holistically, but i don't think including more phytoestrogens is really piecemeal if i'm doing it in addition to other things.









Sorry if that sounded blunt!







I meant that there could be an underlying issue, such as ovarian cysts, FSH/LH ratio, high insulin, etc. that supplementing with estrogen wouldn't fix. I would get a blood test to confirm.

Yes high insulin is a primary cause of hypoglycemia. Just eating high glycemic (thus requiring a very large dump of insulin to keep blood sugar down) can cause hypoglycemia as it then goes way low as a result if you are anyway insulin resistant. Eating that way causes insulin resistance over time b/c of the spikes and valleys.

I really don't know the role estrogen plays in absorbing iodine if at all, the iodine researchers didn't mention as far as I can recall. The only thing that was explained was that iodine protects our breasts against too much estrogen which can lead to breast cancer.


----------



## desertpenguin

Estrogen effects on thyroid iodide uptake and thyroperoxidase activity in normal and ovariectomized rats ...I'm not sure if I'm understanding it correctly but to me it sounds like estrogen increased the amount of iodine that was absorbed by the thyroid.


----------



## Pattyla

I did the 24 hour iodine test. My results after 2mos on 50 mg is 62%. Better than I expected. I did not get bromine tested but I think I'll do that once I get close to 90%. Thats when I really need to know it.

So my question though is why does it seem like my thyroid had tanked? I'm going in today to get my #'s run. My hair is falling out, I'm exhausted, I feel like it is my thyroid. A month ago I felt terrific. Now I feel really run down. I haven't changed anything that I can think of. I expected taking iodine to help my thyroid, not hurt it.

Should I get my antibodies run? They have always come back normal but he wasn't going to run it this time.


----------



## mom61508

http://www.IntegratedHealth.com/shop...s/prodlist.asp

Looks good, maybe?


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I did the 24 hour iodine test. My results after 2mos on 50 mg is 62%. Better than I expected. I did not get bromine tested but I think I'll do that once I get close to 90%. Thats when I really need to know it.

So my question though is why does it seem like my thyroid had tanked? I'm going in today to get my #'s run. My hair is falling out, I'm exhausted, I feel like it is my thyroid. A month ago I felt terrific. Now I feel really run down. I haven't changed anything that I can think of. I expected taking iodine to help my thyroid, not hurt it.

Should I get my antibodies run? They have always come back normal but he wasn't going to run it this time.

Well that certainly shows you are absorbing a lot of iodine, that's pretty good.

I wonder if your symptoms are toxicity related like mine are. What if you drop down your dosage how do you feel? I have to go very slow, I haven't even been brave enough to attempt 50mg, the fatigue is crushing on much less than that and I'm sure it's bromide and maybe mercury but I don't have the $ for tests right now.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
http://www.IntegratedHealth.com/shop...s/prodlist.asp

Looks good, maybe?









I haven't read Mark Sircus's comparison of Nascent Iodine vs. Lugol's and Iodoral ... it is here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6989376/Na...ne-Mark-Sircus

I have to say myself I've been questioning ioDIDE a lot since Sally Fallon's article (iodide and iodine is in Lugol's/Iodoral). I keep meaning to research more about the conversion of iodine to iodide in the body and whether just taking the form iodine as one would naturally get in food (as a higher amount in a supplement) is sufficient or if you really do need iodide.


----------



## Pattyla

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Well that certainly shows you are absorbing a lot of iodine, that's pretty good.

I wonder if your symptoms are toxicity related like mine are. What if you drop down your dosage how do you feel? I have to go very slow, I haven't even been brave enough to attempt 50mg, the fatigue is crushing on much less than that and I'm sure it's bromide and maybe mercury but I don't have the $ for tests right now.

Jane you may be right. I tend to assume things are linear and since I was feeling better I assumed my huge dumping was done but I'm needing a lot more salt today.

I feel so much better on 50 mg than I did on 25. I went to two different HCP's who told me it was my pituitary that checked out, not my thyroid (or my adrenals). I've been working on healing my adreanals for a couple of years and was afraid that I had undone the progress I had made. I just got back from a very fun but stressful family vacation (camping, not a lot of sleep and on the go constantly for over a week). It was great but hard on our bodies.
I've got an EO blend to use and a glandular to take. I'm already feeling a tiny bit better.


----------



## JaneS

From the recent article in _Wise Traditions_ on SECONDARY OR PITUITARY HYPOTHYROIDISM:

Quote:

This occurs when there is no problem within the thyroid gland itself but the pituitary gland, from which the thyroid gland expects a normal amount of TSH in order to produce a normal amount of T4 and T3 hormones, does not secrete adequate amounts of TSH. In this scenario, the free T4 and T3 serum levels will be below normal and the TSH level will be below or at the low end of its normal range. The thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH) level, if tested, would show an increase, but is ineffective in raising the TSH level from the malfunctioning pituitary gland.
Thus again showing how the mainstream approach of testing TSH levels only, and assuming a low TSH means you are normal, is completely incorrrect. (Not that you don't know this yourself, just for the record!)


----------



## JaneS

I don't think I've posted this before:

TRANSDERMAL IODINE THERAPY

Applying to the skin for antibiotic, antifungal effects. Like using Betadine (that brown stuff they swab on you before surgery, that contains iodine) but stronger.

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1060156


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I haven't read Mark Sircus's comparison of Nascent Iodine vs. Lugol's and Iodoral ... it is here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6989376/Na...ne-Mark-Sircus

I have to say myself I've been questioning ioDIDE a lot since Sally Fallon's article (iodide and iodine is in Lugol's/Iodoral). I keep meaning to research more about the conversion of iodine to iodide in the body and whether just taking the form iodine as one would naturally get in food (as a higher amount in a supplement) is sufficient or if you really do need iodide.

thanks. I will read that article and see what I think.

How would you test for mercury and bromine? Obviously expensive????


----------



## linguistmama

I've seen references to these clays, mostly for mercury. Are they helpful or necessary to mop up bromide? Are they taken internally and how much?


----------



## deditus

Goiter after starting iodine therapy? I think my thyroid tanked, it feels enlarged. I have been taking 1/2 an Iodoral for a few months now, working up to that amount after being on supporting nutrients for a while. What's going on? I feel horrible, enough so that I think I need to make an appt at the clinic and get a thyroid panel done.


----------



## Pattyla

I love being right.







:

My TSH was 1.74 in range but high for me.

My T4 was .89 range .61-1.76
My T3 was 1.6 range 2.3-4.2

I'm on a higher dose of armour now.


----------



## quelindo

From Professional Guide to Diseases by Lippincott Williams & Wilkins:

Quote:

Mild deficiency may produce only mild, nonspecific symptoms, such as lassitude, fatigue, and loss of motivation. Severe deficiency usually generates the typically overt and unmistakable features of hypothyroidism: bradycardia; decreased pulse pressure and cardiac output; weakness; hoarseness; dry, flaky, inelastic skin; puffy face; thick tongue; delayed relaxation phase in deep tendon reflexes; poor memory; hearing loss; chills; anorexia and nystagmus. In women, iodine deficiency may also cause menorrhagia or amenorrhea.
Uh, wow. I definitely have lassitude (lack of energy), fatigue and loss of motivation. But also, low blood pressure (I'm assuming this would be related to the low pulse pressure and cardiac output?), weakness, hoarseness, thick tongue, poor memory, chills and AMENORRHEA. The last one is the most troublesome to me, and the one I've been going around and around with doctors to try to figure out. But I'd also love to have more energy, have my legs stop aching, stop being chilled all the time, have my hair grow in thicker, and stop having such a hoarse voice.

I have a thyroid test with my endocrinologist on Friday, but I already have the tests from Hakala Labs ready to do after that, and also Isocort on the way to me. I feel like I've been down so many roads trying to get back to good health (I'm not debilitated but I just never feel strong or totally healthy) that I'm not super hopeful this will actually "work," but I'm willing to try.


----------



## quelindo

Ack! Did I kill this thread?









I started taking Iodoral on Monday (Sunday, actually, since I did the Hakala test on Sunday and then started 25 mg of Iodoral on Monday) and so far, so good. But one weird thing -- it seems like the birthmark on my face has swollen up. Normally it's not very raised but now it seems VERY raised. Could this be the iodine?

Also, I had some diarrhea last night and this morning. It COULD be all the coffee (more than usual) I had yesterday, but could it also be a healing/detox response? (I'm trying to quit coffee but not being very successful...)


----------



## Metasequoia

There were some really good articles about iodine in the latest Wise Traditions. I apologize in advance if someone's already posted these links in this thread.

From Best Kept Secret:

Quote:

Serious Thoughts About Iodine

It is well known that the original cause of most cases of hypothyroidism was iodine deficiency.7 In an effort to deal with that issue in a cost-effective manner, public health officials called for the substitution of iodized salt for non-iodized salt on all our grocery store shelves. This measure has taken the edge off the iodine deficiency problems of yesteryear-although not by any means completely, as good measurements of both organic and inorganic iodine levels in patients' blood or urine would show. But has anyone in thyroidology stopped to recognize the fact that we have actually substituted many more cases of autoimmune thyroiditis and primary hypothyroidism for the relatively fewer cases of iodine deficiency hypothyroidism that existed previously?

Could the mechanism for this phenomenon be that we used the wrong form of iodine-inorganic instead of organic- as a food supplement, and that this harsh form of iodine actually damages the thyroid tissue enough to trigger our immune systems to react against it? I believe this is a question that, at the very least, deserves serious consideration and investigation. I have laid out this case to physicians and researchers who have focused on iodine deficiency, and who recommend taking Lugol's liquid iodine or Iodoral tablets-which contains inorganic potassium iodide as well as organic iodine-but none of them has responded. Iodide is inorganic and harsh, burning flesh and other living matter with which it comes into contact; iodine is organic and gentle, usually cushioned or bound to proteins or other organic matter, providing the benefits of iodine to living matter without the harsh burning interactive effect.

In the mean time, I am recommending that my patients forego the iodized salt on the shelves of their grocery stores and use genuine 80-mineral sea salt instead, which also tastes much better! And, if their organic iodine serum level is low (measured at Boston University's Iodine Research Lab), to take 4-6 drops of organic iodine (such as Thyactin by TriMedica) after breakfast and supper daily (8-12 drops per day) rather than Lugol's liquid iodine or Iodoral tablets.
And, The Great Iodine Debate by Sally Fallon Morell - *15 pages about iodine*!


----------



## quelindo

Anyone have any insight to Sally Fallon's article? She does mention that she had an adverse reaction to iodine, so I wonder how much of that colors the article.


----------



## quelindo

Okay, I'll talk to myself for a bit.









As I mentioned above I did the 50mg Iodoral Hakala labs test on Sunday and then started taking 25mg of Iodoral per day on Monday. Almost right away I noticed that my legs were no longer killing me.

For a really long time now (I can't remember when it started, but I would guess for at least 12 years or more -- I'm 38) my legs have felt heavy, achy, and swollen. They didn't LOOK swollen at all, there are no visible varicose veins, it wasn't prompted by pregnancy and I'm not overweight. But sometimes they would bother me so much that I'd have to sit down and elevate my legs right.then. At night I would lay in bed, trying to fall asleep, and fantasize about someone massaging them. I mean, every night. Occasionally I'd get up in the middle of the night to take some ibuprofen just so I could fall asleep.

And pretty much the day I started the Iodoral or the day after, my legs felt...normal. I didn't even realize what normal meant, actually. And I know it's really, REALLY early, but it's so incredible to me that they'd just stop aching like this.

One more thing I noticed today -- DS and I were at the library, and usually I'll read him a stack of books but have to stop after four or so because my voice will get more and more hoarse and it will start to hurt to talk. But today I was on the eighth or so (longer) book when I realized that my voice wasn't hoarse AT ALL.

So I'm just waiting on the Hakala test results and taking the recommended supplements and staying at 25mg for a little while until I see what happens.


----------



## linguistmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
There were some really good articles about iodine in the latest Wise Traditions. I apologize in advance if someone's already posted these links in this thread.

From Best Kept Secret:

And, The Great Iodine Debate by Sally Fallon Morell - *15 pages about iodine*!

Thanks for posting that! Lots more to think about.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Anyone have any insight to Sally Fallon's article? She does mention that she had an adverse reaction to iodine, so I wonder how much of that colors the article.

Well her adverse reaction was technically to iodide/iodine in Lugol's... which I am having a hard time with as well so I appreciated her article! I wrote about it above in a previous post...

Awesome news about your legs and voice! A hoarse voice is a common to hypothyroidism.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deditus* 
Goiter after starting iodine therapy? I think my thyroid tanked, it feels enlarged. I have been taking 1/2 an Iodoral for a few months now, working up to that amount after being on supporting nutrients for a while. What's going on? I feel horrible, enough so that I think I need to make an appt at the clinic and get a thyroid panel done.

any chance you have Hashimoto's? I would get antibodies tests done.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
thanks. I will read that article and see what I think.

How would you test for mercury and bromine? Obviously expensive????


Bromine is not expensive added onto the iodine test, see websites I posted above. Hakala Labs adds it on. Mercury I assume you would have to get done separately, a urine test. I haven't seen it offered in connection with iodine testing. A urine test would be helpful only if done that day of provocation with the iodine I imagine, I forget if I posted that chart that Brownstein did showing increased mercury.


----------



## tbednarick

<delurk>
I had my dr check my mercury level a few months ago to rule it out as a cause for candida (which she doesn't beleive in). The lab drew my blood to do the test.

I had a filling replaced at my dentist's behest and after the fact, when I started to get sick, regretted the decision. They didn't even replace it with a non-mercury containing filling! But I guess it didn't matter cause my blood test came back normal.

-t
</delurk>


----------



## hotmamacita

Subbing! I need to finish reading this thread!

This is great and timely information for me.

Are there any particular supplements that people recommend for a pre-teen?


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Bromine is not expensive added onto the iodine test, see websites I posted above. Hakala Labs adds it on. Mercury I assume you would have to get done separately, a urine test. I haven't seen it offered in connection with iodine testing. A urine test would be helpful only if done that day of provocation with the iodine I imagine, I forget if I posted that chart that Brownstein did showing increased mercury.

Thank you. I notice you link below sorry a little off subject but do you recommend all pharmax products? Looking for supps for DD who is 14m.o.


----------



## quelindo

I got the results back from Hakala Labs today, and I'm thoroughly confused. Can anyone translate for me?

Quote:

24 Hour Urinary Halide Test

*Total Iodine Excreted 46.8mg (from 50mg loading dose)

% Iodine Excreted 94%*

If you excrete 90% or more, and are not taking iodine supplementation, this may be caused by:

1. A symporter defect in which iodine is absorbed but not taken into the cells properly.
2. An iodine organification problem where the iodine gets into the cell but does not attach to the lipid complex for activation.
3. Bromide may be interfering with the body's utilization of iodine.

*Total bromide excreted in 24 hours 35.2mg*

Upper normal value for 24 hour urine bromide collection reported in the literature is 10mg. Higher levels of bromide can affect iodine utilization.
So what do I do now?


----------



## quelindo

Also, I had requested the "Urine Iodine Spot Test Kit" as well. I don't see anything on the sheet about pre-supplementation status of iodine -- am I missing something?


----------



## tashantx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbednarick* 
<delurk>
I had my dr check my mercury level a few months ago to rule it out as a cause for candida (which she doesn't beleive in). The lab drew my blood to do the test.

I had a filling replaced at my dentist's behest and after the fact, when I started to get sick, regretted the decision. They didn't even replace it with a non-mercury containing filling! But I guess it didn't matter cause my blood test came back normal.

-t
</delurk>

I'm no expert but aren't mercury blood tests unreliable? I thought that urine over a 24 hr. period after using a chelator was the most accuate way to see if you are mercury toxic.


----------



## bluets

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tashantx* 
I'm no expert but aren't mercury blood tests unreliable? I thought that urine over a 24 hr. period after using a chelator was the most accuate way to see if you are mercury toxic.









blood work will show recent exposure (up to 2 months) - but it is best if they use packed erythrocytes (not a common test - in fact I think only Metametrix or Genova Diagnostics has this test kit).

hair analysis will show longer term - providing one is an "excretor". there is some indication that people with a particular mutation in the ApoE gene do not excrete mercury well. so there goes the utility of the hair analysis for some people.

and the final one is as you mention - the urine challenge.


----------



## tashantx

I read the whole thread!








Thanks for all the info!








I had a few questions ( for now I'm sure there will be more later ) .
Is there any reseach on endometriosis and iodine? I suspect I have this or some other estrogen dominance....I also have most symptoms of thyroid problems and/or adrenal fatigue. My tests are within normal range








My 10 year old has 1 mercury filling ,







would it be ok to try him on iodine?
I'm hoping to find a dentist that will remove the filling.
About my multi vitamin... I cannot find the facts for it online it's the central market life multi complete whole food concentrates. It's got pretty high concentrations of vitamins and minerals and even has iodine in it in the form of kelp. 150 mcg Says 100% of daily value but being as it's in the form of kelp iodine supp couldn't hurt right? It's pretty low in magnesium and calcium as well as selenium chromium and potassium. Would I be getting my potassium from my apple cider vinegar? There is no dv % on the bottle but I take it in water (no measurements) 3x daily.The vitamin is also a tad low in biotin. Do I need to supplment all of this??? I think I can make up for a lot of this with my wheat germ (in smoothies) and brewers yeast. Would it be bad to do brewers yeast with a history of candida? I'm pretty sure I got that under control (it was thrush I was on abx during pregnancy and never did probiotics etc) I now drink kombucha and eat yogurt. If my stomach goes nuts I take a proboitic on occasion. I take 1000% mg of vitamin c daily in addition to the 1000 in my multi . Do I need extra c? I also take a low quality clo twin labs....I'm going to order a better one I take a tbsp. of blackstrap molasses in water b/c I thought I might be anemic , I now suspect it's iodine deficiency and not low iron. I get a little mag from that as well as some calcium and potassium. In addition to all of this we eat pretty decent too, I plan to do some sort of adrenal support (siberian ginseng?) during this but is there anything else you all think I should take? I'm paranoid about doing this right . I'm pretty sure I have a nodule or goiter, so I'm ready to get this started! Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## tashantx

more questions. could one have a nodule or goiter with these lab results?
free t4 1.15 reference range 0.73-1.95 units ng/dl
ultrasensitive tsh 1.580 reference range 0.300-5.100 units uiu/ml
also on the autoimmune panel
thyroid peroxidase 11 reference range < 35 units iu/ml
I highly suspect it, about the time I really started feeling awful I had a ''lump'' in my throat. I've researched hiatal hernia, and acid reflux as well as tonsil stones. I read in this thread about lack of iodine causing reflux , I do have more reflux or heartburn gerd? than ever (besides pregnancy) even with acv which has allways helped. I'm not sure what this lump is . I don't think it's visible on the outside but I never asked the doctor to feel for it as I hadn't quite added all of this up when I went in for testing etc. I read online that a hiatal hernia can cause much of what is happening with me even fatigue but the chiro didn't seem to think that was my problem so I left his office pretty much back where I started......Any ideas? This lump is pretty annoying.


----------



## tashantx

I took my first iodoral today. I really don't have the $ for the urine test. I'll start here and see if I should change the dose later. We use a water softner and well water dosen't that put salt in the water? I wonder if the softner salt is iodized....I'm also really hoping to find out soon if my well water is fluoridated, nichole I saw you mention in another thread that you are now taking a different iodine sup. what made you up your dose or change? I believe you are going by how you feel alone right? I'll likely do the same. The urine test would be pretty high for my whole family so we shall see how this goes!! Also I'm torn between sea salt and table salt....I know iodized table salt is not rich in minerals and I've been using sea salt for sometime now but part of me wonders if I should use some table salt now....


----------



## MCatLvrMom2A&X

What happens when there is no thyroid? How does the body handle iodine and what if anything should I do to help my body out?


----------



## tashantx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
What happens when there is no thyroid? How does the body handle iodine and what if anything should I do to help my body out?

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (may have even been this thread) that the thyroid can even grow back with proper ''conditions''. I think I killed this thread but maybe someone will come along with some expertise.


----------



## tashantx

another thing that I was thinking is that breast tissue and all cells in the body rely on iodine so it is essential with or without the thyroid.


----------



## MCatLvrMom2A&X

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tashantx* 
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (may have even been this thread) that the thyroid can even grow back with proper ''conditions''. I think I killed this thread but maybe someone will come along with some expertise.

Grow back?!?!?! That would be a very bad thing in my case since I had cancer of the thyroid. The small amount they could not removed was killed







with the use of radioactive iodine. The uptake scans after surgery and for a few years following showed zero dye and I so hope that is still the case. I have not had a scan since 99 before getting pg with dd. Since it has been so long he hasnt mentioned having another one but I am thinking now I will request one though it is really hard on me having to go off my meds.

The endo keeps my levels a certain way to prevent any stimulation from pituitary to thyroid. Now I am a bit scared







I in no way want that thing back in my body *shudder*


----------



## tashantx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
Grow back?!?!?! That would be a very bad thing in my case since I had cancer of the thyroid. The small amount they could not removed was killed







with the use of radioactive iodine. The uptake scans after surgery and for a few years following showed zero dye and I so hope that is still the case. I have not had a scan since 99 before getting pg with dd. Since it has been so long he hasnt mentioned having another one but I am thinking now I will request one though it is really hard on me having to go off my meds.

The endo keeps my levels a certain way to prevent any stimulation from pituitary to thyroid. Now I am a bit scared







I in no way want that thing back in my body *shudder*

WOW! Wish I knew more on how to help.


----------



## MCatLvrMom2A&X

I really would love to know if I should increase my iodine intake or not. I dont eat a lot of table salt but do it processed foods a lot.

Hopefully the OP will drop back by and help me out.


----------



## erin_brycesmom

subbing...tons of info here, thanks! I have autoimmune thyroiditis and am deep in my third bout of postpartum thyroiditis. I just started taking iodine per my ND's advice two days ago.


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
I really would love to know if I should increase my iodine intake or not. I dont eat a lot of table salt but do it processed foods a lot.

Hopefully the OP will drop back by and help me out.









I would - have you read Dr. B's book on iodine?
You (and Tashantx) may want to post your specific questions at the Iodine Group - it's a yahoo group with some good info in the files sections and some knowledgeable folks to answer questions.

fp


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tashantx* 
I took my first iodoral today. I really don't have the $ for the urine test. I'll start here and see if I should change the dose later. We use a water softner and well water dosen't that put salt in the water? I wonder if the softner salt is iodized....I'm also really hoping to find out soon if my well water is fluoridated, nichole I saw you mention in another thread that you are now taking a different iodine sup. what made you up your dose or change? I believe you are going by how you feel alone right? I'll likely do the same. The urine test would be pretty high for my whole family so we shall see how this goes!! Also I'm torn between sea salt and table salt....I know iodized table salt is not rich in minerals and I've been using sea salt for sometime now but part of me wonders if I should use some table salt now....

I don't use table salt which is sodium chloride - just celtic sea salt. It is so good for the body - helps detoxify the bromide and is rich in minerals, plus helps with the salt wasting associated w/ my adrenal issues.

Are you still taking the iodoral?
How's it going?

fp


----------



## tashantx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
I don't use table salt which is sodium chloride - just celtic sea salt. It is so good for the body - helps detoxify the bromide and is rich in minerals, plus helps with the salt wasting associated w/ my adrenal issues.

Are you still taking the iodoral?
How's it going?

fp

I'm using sea salt it's from the grocery store but is bound to be better than table salt. I'm taking 25 mg of iodoral a day now and can definately see a difference. I also started taking vitex to help with some of the hormonal stuff I've been dealing with. I think I could still up the iodine some as I still have cold hands and feet most of the time. I'm taking it slow because I'm breastfeeding and want to be gentle with any detox. I really want to get a copy of Dr. Browsteins book (I have a stack of books I need to read before justifying that purchase) Thanks for recommending the iodine group I'll have to check that out. Oh and thanks for asking how it's going


----------



## MomToEmerson

Can anyone tell me if the info in this is true about Lugols being watered down and the "real" stuff being outlawed in the US http://www.health-science-spirit.com/lugol.htm I am trying to figure out what to buy - and unfortunately having severe brain fog makes it really difficult to navigate and comprehend 27 pages of the thread and make any intelligent decision, LOL!

I have found several varieties of lugols and the iodoral on amazon. I need to supplement myself, DH and I believe my poor 3 yo DS who has all sorts of confusing issues







I don't know how the tablets taste either - could be an issue with my son. And can't figure out how much to give him.


----------



## MomToEmerson

Alright, well being impatient to get help I have tested the waters, LOL! I went ahead and ordered one "Lugol's 5%" from Amazon (it had better actually be what it says) and Iodoral as well. I figure the drops will be the easiest way to dose my son, while the tablets will be fine for us adults. I just have to figure out how much. I joined that Yahoo group listed and hope I can get some help there too.


----------



## Toolip

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I haven't read Mark Sircus's comparison of Nascent Iodine vs. Lugol's and Iodoral ... it is here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6989376/Na...ne-Mark-Sircus

I have to say myself I've been questioning ioDIDE a lot since Sally Fallon's article (iodide and iodine is in Lugol's/Iodoral). I keep meaning to research more about the conversion of iodine to iodide in the body and whether just taking the form iodine as one would naturally get in food (as a higher amount in a supplement) is sufficient or if you really do need iodide.

Do you have anymore information on this?


----------



## FireWithin

I am so excited about this and wanted to share it here.

A few times since this thread came up I have tried to take Lugol's with painful results, even just taking one or two drops a week, I would have terribly painful detox reactions. The thinking I might die kind of pain.

A while back TanyaLopez discussed how she really upped her b12s to help with histamine reactions. I tend to have a lot of problems with environmental allergies when the seasons change.

So instead of my usual one or two high quality sublingual b12s I usually take a day, I took 5. It felt crazy since each one is already at a ridiculously high RDA level.

Guess what? No more evironmental allergies!!

But even better. I tried Lugol's again, and realized I did not have any pain - no migraines, no fear of moving pain - none at all. Whenever I take Lugol's I make sure I take a lot of b12s. Usually 5-7 a day, if not more.

I thought this would be awesome for some of the moms here.


----------



## speedmum

Hello, thank you for creating this thread. I am a novice and have most symptoms that have been discussed here. I am quite new to the MDC community, so please bear with me.

I MIGHT have PCOS and had trouble breastfeeding, quite likely that I have AF for the longest time...last 12 stressed years. I am a vegetarian and grw up eating SAD food.

A friend suggested Iosol Iodine from Byron Richards. Has anyone tried this brand or Iosol form of iodine?
I am self treating and thinking 1 drop a day in a glass of water can only do good.

Just not very familiar with the forms of iodine that are OK to take. Just want to make sure that I can take Iosol Iodine?
I do take Magnesium, D3, Zinc, Brewers Yeast, Butter Oil, Vitamin E almost everyday. I eat yogurt and drink milk almost everyday, I try and pick the rawmilk/yougrt when available.

PS. I am working on catching up with all posts on this thread, but I am def. overwhelmed. Plus, not very familiar with all short terms etc


----------



## WuWei

Speedmum, gotta be careful adding iodine while nursing. Consider adding B12 in some form, preferably sublingual methyl B12, since you are vegetarian.

Pat


----------



## speedmum

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Speedmum, gotta be careful adding iodine while nursing. Consider adding B12 in some form, preferably sublingual methyl B12, since you are vegetarian.

Pat

I am not nursing as of right now. I was taking 1000 MG b12 everyday and just ran out of it. I'll have to wait for 4 weeks before I get it (international shipping).

However, can I take *IOSOL iodine*? Is that form safe?


----------



## speedmum

bump


----------



## nichole

How much b12 with the iodine?

Edited to add and this is just b12, not b complex?

I started the iodine, but stopped. I don't know if I wasn't getting enough b vitamins or maybe I got a contaminated one? I bought a kelp supplement from gnc. I am just now seeing that kelp can be contaminated with arsenic, but I can't find the list of supplements to stay away from. I want to start really gradually with it. I am actually feeling pretty good without it, but I sometimes I wonder if it would help me get off synthroid or for next time I feel run down and sleepy all the time.


----------



## JaneS

How much B12 is hard to answer, it's really individual. I personally would start with 5000 mcg. and see how you do. It really helped me when I was experiencing insomnia ... B12 also triggers melatonin production.

B12 is essential for detox. Since our digestive fire (the B12 intrinsic factor) is responsive for absorbing B12 from our foods, many of us are deficient. If you show up low on B12 in blood tests you are *really* deficient, since the blood is the last for the body to neglect. I like Jarrow's sublingual 5000 or 1000. Usually B complex pills do not have enough B12 and it's not in methyl form. The sublingual is the best b/c then you don't need the intrinsic factor to digest it, it just goes directly from mouth/under tongue to bloodstream. Some experiences has shown it's just as good as B12 shots.


----------



## JaneS

Re: Iosol

Think of this as "Lugol's Light" ... it contains 1.83mg of iodine and iodide per drop. And a 1 oz. bottle contains over 600 drops.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Toolip* 
Do you have anymore information on this?

Not really I'm sorry to say.









I did get Sircus' ebook but haven't had time to finish! The part of me that feels the wisdom of traditional dietary support is competing with the knowledge that we can also use high doses of nutrients to heal our poor modern bodies.


----------



## JaneS

*Sea salt from grocery store* that is also processed and refined (Frontier, Baleine, Hain... the inexpensive very white sea salts) are not better than standard processed table salt because they do not contain nutrients that give Celtic Sea Salt and other unprocessed premium salts healing qualities.

http://celticseasalt.directtrack.com/z/3/CD240/


----------



## linguistmama

How big are the Jarrow 5000mcg sublinguals? We have some of the 1000 mcg from Source naturals and it's a pain to take 5 of them







But I'm wondering if the 5000's are just 5 x's bigger?


----------



## tashantx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
*Sea salt from grocery store* that is also processed and refined (Frontier, Baleine, Hain... the inexpensive very white sea salts) are not better than standard processed table salt because they do not contain nutrients that give Celtic Sea Salt and other unprocessed premium salts healing qualities.

http://celticseasalt.directtrack.com/z/3/CD240/

Thank you Jane, I bought redmond real salt and I've almost used a whole container! It tastes better. I hope it's a better choice than the grocery store stuff. Also wanted to add that I cut back to 12.5 (1 iodoral) a day now and every other day I take a 6.25 in addition to that. Feeling pretty good lately!


----------



## Junegoddess

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Usually B complex pills do not have enough B12 and it's not in methyl form.

Sing it, sister! I was having strange waves of exhaustion hit me several times a day, and could not think of what the cause might be. Yes, I'm pregnant and it's considered normal to be tired... but in general I feel fabulous and these 'episodes' were really weird. Someone on another thread suggested B-12, and I thought "how can I be low in that? I'm taking a B-complex!" But I tried it anyway. And whaddaya know... no more waves of exhaustion.

Not sure why I need more B-12 than the average bear, but for the meantime I'll just take extra and feel good.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
How big are the Jarrow 5000mcg sublinguals? We have some of the 1000 mcg from Source naturals and it's a pain to take 5 of them







But I'm wondering if the 5000's are just 5 x's bigger?

Very small, like a little bigger than an aspirin tablet. Same size as Jarrow 1000mcg. I am not familiar with the Source Naturals ones.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Junegoddess* 
Not sure why I need more B-12 than the average bear, but for the meantime I'll just take extra and feel good.

Usually it's digestion related and the absence of the instrinsic factor that absorbs B12.... and the strength of your stomach acid plays a role. Also even if digestion is working well, if you eat high carb, or a lot of liquid with your meals, this lowers your stomach acid. Most people do and have eaten this way all their life, in addition to processed foods in standard diets, so I think this is a simple reason why most are B12 deficient.


----------



## bigknitwit

Hi everyone,

I'm wondering if anybody can help me with this: I started taking Lugol's iodine about 7ish weeks ago. The doctor said to work up to 5ml/day. At the same time, he told me to increase my vit D intake to 10000IU/day (I take some as fermented CLO, some as vit D3 drops, and go gluten free. I did all of these things without incident for a while. However, now, within the past week or 2, I've started getting what seems to be ECZEMA patches! There is one behind my knee, and one on my chest. I've never had eczema in my life. Is it just because of the very dry winter air (never had this problem before), or is something else going on here? It is incessantly itchy. How do I deal with this eczema issue? I have no fillings in my mouth, and I recently added B12 and a little magnesium...


----------



## JaneS

Bigknitwit,

I'm sorry I didn't see this until now! It's likely bromide detox... the folks on the Iodine Yahoo list have experienced this. Have you tried the salt load protocol? That is reported to fix it.


----------



## JaneS

New iodine based pharmaceutical for breast health:

IOGen
http://www.news-medical.net/news/201...-February.aspx


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Usually it's digestion related and the absence of the instrinsic factor that absorbs B12.... and the strength of your stomach acid plays a role. Also even if digestion is working well, if you eat high carb, or a lot of liquid with your meals, this lowers your stomach acid. Most people do and have eaten this way all their life, in addition to processed foods in standard diets, so I think this is a simple reason why most are B12 deficient.

Even If your blood work shows your B12 as being in "normal range" should you still supplement B12??


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Even If your blood work shows your B12 as being in "normal range" should you still supplement B12??

You can also test MMA as a more sensitive indicator. Or just try supping and see if you notice a difference.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Even If your blood work shows your B12 as being in "normal range" should you still supplement B12??

I've read that the top third of the range is where normal healthy people are.


----------



## bigknitwit

I stopped taking the iodine after posting about the eczema, and it has really subsided. It is not gone, but it is almost. I had planned to wait until I see my doctor again Feb 5 before attempting to restart, but maybe I should do some of the salt flushing and see if it completely clears the eczema, and then restart the iodine...? I also seem to have a newly developped sensitivity to cooked milk - makes me feel a little nauseous. Raw milk is fine, as is cooked yogurt, cheese, etc. But a cup of hot chocolate is out, and cream sauces with a meal also make me feel bad... sigh. Is this also the work of the iodine? Will the salt help this too??

I had wanted to start supping my kids with the iodine, but I really don't want to bring about these kinds of symptoms in them. Should I jsut go really really slowly (1 drop/day)?


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
You can also test MMA as a more sensitive indicator. Or just try supping and see if you notice a difference.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I've read that the top third of the range is where normal healthy people are.

Thank you


----------



## mom61508

Anyone with Hashis here supping iodine? I keep getting conflicting info on whether or not it's "safe" to take when you have Hashis. I'm currently in a hyper state(that's what the blood work showed)although I don't feel hyper


----------



## zjandosmom

I have just found out I have DCIS. Anyone know or have experience with this and iodine def. I am trying to find ways around radiation. Wondering if I have the tumor removed and then test and treat iodine def. if that would do it for me. I have been having hormone issues and thinking that that is what caused the cancer. thoughts?


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zjandosmom* 
I have just found out I have DCIS. Anyone know or have experience with this and iodine def. I am trying to find ways around radiation. Wondering if I have the tumor removed and then test and treat iodine def. if that would do it for me. I have been having hormone issues and thinking that that is what caused the cancer. thoughts?

Bumping for you


----------



## zjandosmom

mom61508 - thank you! Just met with my surgeon. I have high grade DCIS and surgery is scheduled for Feb 10.


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Anyone with Hashis here supping iodine? I keep getting conflicting info on whether or not it's "safe" to take when you have Hashis. I'm currently in a hyper state(that's what the blood work showed)although I don't feel hyper

I'd like to know the answer to this as well.

I just got back from my appt. He is testing tsh. He was asking how I felt on my current dose and I started crying. It was very embarrassing and not helpful. I've never cried at the doctor's office before...blah.

I asked about iodine, but he didn't seem to know anything about it. He started talking about doing an iodine intake and ultrasound. Is he talking about the radioactive iodine thingie? I tried to explain about iodine deficiencies and he said I get enough through salt and seafood. That's what I figured he would say, but it doesn't hurt to ask.


----------



## MomToEmerson

Well, we have been using iodine, selenium, c, and magnesium along with our usual slew of supps for a couple months or more now. I am hypothyroid on 90 mg (3 grains) of dessicated thyroid, DH is on 1 grain, DS (3 yo) is an unknown factor. So far DH and I both started experiencing sky rocketing blood pressure. I dropped my thyroid down to 1 grain and it went away. Thinking perhaps my thyroid is working again. I cut down DH's iodine since I don't really know what to do. I also am getting boils on my chest, neck and face. DH is having insomnia. No obvious signs with DS - I give him 2 - 4 drops lugols a day and we were taking 8 drops having worked up to that from 2 drops also. Oh, and my 23 day cycle went to 32 last month and who knows so far this month - we are at 25.

Suggestions? I am on the yahoo group but find it overwhelming


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Anyone with Hashis here supping iodine? I keep getting conflicting info on whether or not it's "safe" to take when you have Hashis. I'm currently in a hyper state(that's what the blood work showed)although I don't feel hyper

https://www.drbrownstein.com/bookstore_Iodine.php

This guy claims that iodine can help hashi's patients. I found some people online that claim to be low in iodine and hashis. So you know I'm just going to try it. I'll report how it goes. I'm going to start with Iosol maybe every other day and see how I feel. I can't feel any worse lol. I found Iosol on amazon. IIRC, it is 1 mg as opposed to the 12.5 mg in Iodoral. I think that's right. There are wonderful reviews of both on amazon. I'm very hopeful!!


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomToEmerson* 
Well, we have been using iodine, selenium, c, and magnesium along with our usual slew of supps for a couple months or more now. I am hypothyroid on 90 mg (3 grains) of dessicated thyroid, DH is on 1 grain, DS (3 yo) is an unknown factor. So far DH and I both started experiencing sky rocketing blood pressure. I dropped my thyroid down to 1 grain and it went away. Thinking perhaps my thyroid is working again. I cut down DH's iodine since I don't really know what to do. I also am getting boils on my chest, neck and face. DH is having insomnia. No obvious signs with DS - I give him 2 - 4 drops lugols a day and we were taking 8 drops having worked up to that from 2 drops also. Oh, and my 23 day cycle went to 32 last month and who knows so far this month - we are at 25.

Suggestions? I am on the yahoo group but find it overwhelming









This is why I stopped armour and went back to synthroid. I felt like I was having a heart attack. Maybe I needed more adrenal support. I think cutting back and seeing how you feel is what I would do. Good luck figuring it out.

If your cycle went to 32 days, could you have been stressed? That can delay ovulation and then the cycle is a little longer.

It is very overwhelming. I agree.


----------



## MomToEmerson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
This is why I stopped armour and went back to synthroid. I felt like I was having a heart attack. Maybe I needed more adrenal support. I think cutting back and seeing how you feel is what I would do. Good luck figuring it out.

If your cycle went to 32 days, could you have been stressed? That can delay ovulation and then the cycle is a little longer.

It is very overwhelming. I agree.

LOL! Yes, to say I was stressed is the understatement of the year









Armour is no longer effective for most people, just FYI. They reformulated last spring and it stopped working for everyone I know who was taking it. We all switched to natural dessicated thyroid from Canada and it works well. I definitely don't want the synthetic stuff - everything about it scares the poo out of me. I am thinking I just don't need as much and that is why I started having the hypo symptoms?

But yeah, it can also be a sign that you need cortisol - hydrocort. My DH is on that. If he took thyroid without it (which he accidentally did one day) his heart would race and it was like he was on some kind of speed. I never had that problem.


----------



## nichole

MomToEmerson, Thanks for the heads up about armour. I guess i've been out of the loop.


----------



## tanyalynn

MomToEmerson, if it were _me_ a big jump in the length of my cycle would be a good thing. I've been hanging out around 23 days for quite a while and it's a short luteal phase for me, I think it's an adrenal stress/low progesterone/short LP situation. So maybe better thyroid function is reducing stress on your adrenals? For me, my adrenals are worse, and need more TLC than my thyroid, but maybe it was the opposite for you? If you don't already chart your cycle to see when you ovulate, it may be helpful in understanding what's going on.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
https://www.drbrownstein.com/bookstore_Iodine.php

This guy claims that iodine can help hashi's patients. I found some people online that claim to be low in iodine and hashis. So you know I'm just going to try it. I'll report how it goes. I'm going to start with Iosol maybe every other day and see how I feel. I can't feel any worse lol. I found Iosol on amazon. IIRC, it is 1 mg as opposed to the 12.5 mg in Iodoral. I think that's right. There are wonderful reviews of both on amazon. I'm very hopeful!!

Dr. Brownstein is one of the premier iodine researchers in the country along with Flechas and Abraham. I post above his protocol for Hashi's patients. ATP cofactors as well as selenium (and magnesium and C) are essential to take along with iodine in this case. There is also evidence of gluten intolerance causing Hashi's.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zjandosmom* 
I have just found out I have DCIS. Anyone know or have experience with this and iodine def. I am trying to find ways around radiation. Wondering if I have the tumor removed and then test and treat iodine def. if that would do it for me. I have been having hormone issues and thinking that that is what caused the cancer. thoughts?











Breast Cancer Choices
www.breastcancerchoices.org

Vitamin D and Breast Cancer
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/cancerBreast.shtml


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Hmm.
I started supping the family with iodine but only at the RDA level since we don't do iodized salt etc. Then ds1 brought home a cold, which everyone caught. I know it's a cold but I'm wondering if some of the symptoms aren't from starting to get iodine again; swollen lymph nodes and sore throat. Kids have also been INCREDIBLY restless at night and skipping naps.


----------



## JaneS

Are you giving in AM? Iodine can certainly overwhelm a less than functioning detox system I can tell you from personal experience! How are you calculating RDA?


----------



## lil_miss_understood

I was using the RDA from this site.
No, I've been giving/taking it in the evening.







It's the only meal we all eat together and I just put one drop (75mcg- so adults are actually only getting 1/2 RDA or less) in our drinks- except for ds2 and ds3, who are breastfeeding will eventually get their own but not atm.


----------



## OurGift

Hi Ladies!

I am trying to get through this huge thread which is taking some time, but please tell me that organic dulse from Maine Coast is safe. I can literally eat a whole bag in 2 days!







I am breastfeeding a 7 month old, so I am worried that I may be doing something wrong here. TMI alert: I did notice that when I finished this last bag my saliva glands were over active on the undersides/side of my tongue. Like pouring out saliva. So that got me poking around here on MDC for some answers.

The dulse was recommended to me by an Asian friend of mine that said "a lot of Asian women eat seaweed when they're pregnant and breastfeeding." I know she showed me to put like a little bit in soups, salads and to snack, but I CRAVE it! I went through like 4 bags in a month when I initially bought it and then must have stopped craving because that was like 3 months ago. Then I bought a bag and couldn't stop myself. Thanks! She also recommended CLO, but that stuff is gross!! I saw someone mention "Greener Pastures" fermented something, which flavor though and is it still gross?

And I do have a couple mercury fillings.









Oh, and eczema since childhood.

NAK


----------



## zjandosmom

JaneS - Thank you! Great info.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OurGift* 
Hi Ladies!

I am trying to get through this huge thread which is taking some time, but please tell me that organic dulse from Maine Coast is safe. I can literally eat a whole bag in 2 days!







I am breastfeeding a 7 month old, so I am worried that I may be doing something wrong here. TMI alert: I did notice that when I finished this last bag my saliva glands were over active on the undersides/side of my tongue. Like pouring out saliva. So that got me poking around here on MDC for some answers.

The dulse was recommended to me by an Asian friend of mine that said "a lot of Asian women eat seaweed when they're pregnant and breastfeeding." I know she showed me to put like a little bit in soups, salads and to snack, but I CRAVE it! I went through like 4 bags in a month when I initially bought it and then must have stopped craving because that was like 3 months ago. Then I bought a bag and couldn't stop myself. Thanks! She also recommended CLO, but that stuff is gross!! I saw someone mention "Greener Pastures" fermented something, which flavor though and is it still gross?

And I do have a couple mercury fillings.









Oh, and eczema since childhood.

NAK

I like Maine Coast company. I eat there kelp. From what I read kelp is said to be more of a problem I believe but I haven't read a ton on it. I know Pat (Wuwei)uses Maine Coast as well. And YES Green pastures FCLO is so good for you! Is it yummy? Not so much but You can't not take when you read up on how beneficial it is for you and your nursling







DD is 19 months and takes it by the spoon with a pineapple juice chaser every night








At least get your LO started on it early. You will get used to it.


----------



## OurGift

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
I like Maine Coast company. I eat there kelp. From what I read kelp is said to be more of a problem I believe but I haven't read a ton on it. I know Pat (Wuwei)uses Maine Coast as well. And YES Green pastures FCLO is so good for you! Is it yummy? Not so much but You can't not take when you read up on how beneficial it is for you and your nursling







DD is 19 months and takes it by the spoon with a pineapple juice chaser every night







At least get your LO started on it early. You will get used to it.

Thanks for responding!

I have some questions, where do I read up about this CLO? I looked around and I am not finding much on their site? Do we know that there is no mercury in their product? When are you supposed to start giving it to LO's?

Does anyone have any idea why I had really overactive saliva glands after I ate that dulse? And why I crave it so much?

Thanks again!


----------



## Tamara3395

Hello Everyone,
I am new to Iodine, having been prescribed by my Naturopath Iodoral for a deficiency. I have a multinodular goiter, hypothyroidism. I am on 1 grain of ERFA (same as old Armour, only from Canada). I am taking all supporting nutrients, and have read many posts here and over at Curezone. My question is about the bromide de-tox. I started on 12.5 mg. for two weeks, then increased to 25 mg. per my doc's orders. Immediate bromide detox, severe. I went off for 2 months, and this time started slower, at 6.25 mg. After 3 days, same de-tox symptoms, only less severe, but with added NIGHTMARES of the worst kind-and I mean worst! At least three of them a night, sometimes more. I cannot sleep well at all, I'm maybe getting 3 hours a night. In addition, I started my period again on day 13 of my cycle. What gives? What would be your advice to me? I seem super sensitive. I am taking Peter Gilliams' liquid multi, along with natural Calm mag, and 5,000 mg. C a day, fish oils, ALA, digestive enzymes, and probiotics. I have gone back off, and have been off 2 days, but symptoms persist. Please baby me a bit and give me some advice! It's really hard with 4 kids, homeschooling, and a absent hubby due to work requirements (he's working out of state).
Thank you,
Tamara


----------



## WuWei

CLO 101

Green Pastures fermented CLO is heavy metal tested.

Any sea vegetables (dulse, kelp, etc.) need to be heavy metal tested.

Pat


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 

Any sea vegetables (dulse, kelp, etc.) need to be heavy metal tested.


But they usually contain bromides (iodine replacer in the body), because our seas are so contaminated, so that is why the iodine researchers warn against eating them.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tamara3395* 
Hello Everyone,
I am new to Iodine, having been prescribed by my Naturopath Iodoral for a deficiency. I have a multinodular goiter, hypothyroidism. I am on 1 grain of ERFA (same as old Armour, only from Canada). I am taking all supporting nutrients, and have read many posts here and over at Curezone. My question is about the bromide de-tox. I started on 12.5 mg. for two weeks, then increased to 25 mg. per my doc's orders. Immediate bromide detox, severe. I went off for 2 months, and this time started slower, at 6.25 mg. After 3 days, same de-tox symptoms, only less severe, but with added NIGHTMARES of the worst kind-and I mean worst! At least three of them a night, sometimes more. I cannot sleep well at all, I'm maybe getting 3 hours a night. In addition, I started my period again on day 13 of my cycle. What gives? What would be your advice to me? I seem super sensitive. I am taking Peter Gilliams' liquid multi, along with natural Calm mag, and 5,000 mg. C a day, fish oils, ALA, digestive enzymes, and probiotics. I have gone back off, and have been off 2 days, but symptoms persist. Please baby me a bit and give me some advice! It's really hard with 4 kids, homeschooling, and a absent hubby due to work requirements (he's working out of state).
Thank you,
Tamara

See salt loading procedure in the Iodine Companion Nutrients protocol here:
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/iprotocol.html
Only use Celtic or Himalayan Sea Salt.

You might just have to go slow, I do. My detox systems just are too overwhelmed. Methyl B12 (Jarrow 5000mcg sublingual) has been very helpful to me when I've had sleep problems. B12 is crucial for detox. You might read up on other detox pathways. Are you taking B vits?

Are you taking vitamin C throughout the day? You might need more.

I would absolutely add selenium, I like Jarrow's SeleNext active form.

There can be contraindications to ALA... since it chelates mercury. There is some evidence iodine does as well since Brownstein published case studies showing more Hg in urine after iodine supplementation. Do you have mercury fillings?

How much magnesium? How many times/day? Do you eat a lot of calcium/dairy?


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OurGift* 
Does anyone have any idea why I had really overactive saliva glands after I ate that dulse? And why I crave it so much?



Iodine is concentrated in the saliva glands... in addition to many other areas of the body posted beginning of this thread. Bromides do too, as bromides can be stored on the body anywhere there is an iodine receptor (and thus cause malfunction of that organ b/c it kicks iodine out). One or both is causing the overactive saliva.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I was using the RDA from this site.
No, I've been giving/taking it in the evening.







It's the only meal we all eat together and I just put one drop (75mcg- so adults are actually only getting 1/2 RDA or less) in our drinks- except for ds2 and ds3, who are breastfeeding will eventually get their own but not atm.

Well I can see it interfering with sleep this way but not napping? It's such a small dose. But then again, some people are super sensitive. Did you stop for a while and see if things went back to normal? That is what I would do.

DS wants to pick a smilie


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
But they usually contain bromides (iodine replacer in the body), because our seas are so contaminated, so that is why the iodine researchers warn against eating them.

Do you have a reference about this? I can only locate info about bromine in sea vegetables.

Thanks, Pat


----------



## JaneS

Bromine and bromide are the same thing.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Well I can see it interfering with sleep this way but not napping? It's such a small dose. But then again, some people are super sensitive. Did you stop for a while and see if things went back to normal? That is what I would do.

DS wants to pick a smilie









No, but it seems to have calmed down now. I'm thinking that bc we were w/o any iodine source for a year+, it may have caused me to detox a little. Can't imagine if we'd started higher.


----------



## WorldsBestMom

This is a whole lot of information but we are sure grateful for it. Thanks again. Keep the informative post coming. Funny enough the most I know about lack of Iodine is it can cause thyroid problems and one might end up with goitre.


----------



## OurGift

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Iodine is concentrated in the saliva glands... in addition to many other areas of the body posted beginning of this thread. Bromides do too, as bromides can be stored on the body anywhere there is an iodine receptor (and thus cause malfunction of that organ b/c it kicks iodine out). One or both is causing the overactive saliva.

Thanks Jane,

So, I should assume that it could be bromides that are coming out of my saliva glands and should probably not swallow it, right? Should I assume that the overactive saliva glands are a bad thing? It was really annoying and I had to repetitively hold cold water in my mouth to calm down my tongue and not feel like I was drowning in saliva. If that makes sense...

Does anyone have the link to the iodine related Yahoo group that I have seen mentioned here?

Also, can someone link me to the sea vegetables/bromines/bromides warning?

Thanks so very much ladies!


----------



## Tamara3395

Jane,
I've tried doing the celtic sea salt with it (1/2 teaspoon divided into 1/4 teaspoon twice a day) and it helps, but I have to be careful with my blood pressure-it really pops up when I do this in any greater amounts (130/90 range). I take about a 1,000 mg. of magnesium a day, peter Gilliams Mag Calm. Only one calcium chew a day, it has about 500 mg. calcium in it. I don't take much calcium otherwise, except what I get in foods, and not a milk drinker, either. Peter Gilliam's liquid multi has about 400% or greater of the B's, and 1,666 of B12. I have to be careful with that, too, as a nutritional profile came back showing I was way over normal limits for it.
I was taking 3,000 mg. of vitamin C a day, but I think I'm going to up it to 10,000 mg. next week when I start back. Thanks for the advice on selenium, and I forgot to add that I do not have Hashi's.
The bleeding stopped over this weekend. All symptoms have gone away. I am thinking of starting 1/4 tablet next week instead of half a tablet of Lugol's. However, there is a part of me that just wants to push on through with the 1/2 tablet to see if I can get through it. What did you do when first started, jane? How do you take it now? How long did it take you?
I told my husband today that I was not going to give up-taking Iodine is much easier, even when detoxing, than taking Chemotherapy. The cancer risk in my family is strong, having lost my Mom to colon cancer, my paternal Gfather and uncle to stomach cancer, and an Mat. Aunt had thyroid cancer which is now resolved when they took it out. So, Iodine has to be something I'll need to take for the rest of my life!
If anyone has any advice, along with Jane, I'd certainly appreciate it!
P.S. Jane, what did you mean about different detox pathways?
Thanks,
Tamara


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tamara3395* 
P.S. Jane, what did you mean about different detox pathways?
Thanks,
Tamara

Not Jane, but there's a good description of the detox pathways here.


----------



## BeagleMommy

Has anyone tried nascent iodine? I have been taking it for a while with good results. My energy is much better. Overall, I feel much better, but I have also been taking dessicated porcine thyroid, too, so it's hard to tell how much is from the iodine vs. thyroid.
It can be bought from Nutrimedical.com
Any thoughts?


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Bromine and bromide are the same thing.

Not as far as I can discern. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromide
http://www.rhtubs.com/BROMINE.htm
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Bromine
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/b...ncetheory.html
http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-pr...l/bromine.html
http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/kelp.html
http://asknature.org/strategy/ee97bc...303edccecc5eaa
http://www.jstor.org/pss/20490068
http://www.theherbprof.com/hrbKelp.htm

Pat


----------



## Tamara3395

Thank you! :}


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Not as far as I can discern. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromide
http://www.rhtubs.com/BROMINE.htm
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Bromine
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/b...ncetheory.html
http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-pr...l/bromine.html
http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/kelp.html
http://asknature.org/strategy/ee97bc...303edccecc5eaa
http://www.jstor.org/pss/20490068
http://www.theherbprof.com/hrbKelp.htm

Pat


Yes, either bromide or bromine can concentrate in the body like iodine and iodide.

You are confusing me b/c these quotes from your links are showing that they are both the same but different forms, again like iodine and iodide. In the body the breasts prefer iodine and othe organs prefer iodide. I don't know if it's the case exactly alike with bromine and bromide, but they are indeed a form of the same element "Br" on the periodic table.

Quote:

When bromine is added to a spa it's in the form of bromide ions

Quote:

A bromide ion is a bromine atom with charge of −1.

Compounds with *bromine in formal oxidation state −1 are called bromides*, and each individual chemical in this class can be called a bromide, as well.

Quote:

The bromides of calcium, sodium, and zinc account for a sizable part of the bromine market.
Bromate is another form of the same element:

Quote:

BROMIDE IN PRODUCTS

BREAD

Potassium bromate as an additive to most commercial bread and baked
goods probably provides the most egregious contribution to bromide
overload in Western cultures.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:

Iodine belongs to a class of elements called "halogens".

*In addition to Iodine, the common halogens are fluorine (F), chlorine (Cl), and bromine (Br). Halogens form a single column of the periodic chart and all require exactly one additional electron to fill their outer electron shells.*

The halogens are diatomic molecules in their natural form; e.g., molecular iodine (I2), fluorine (F2), chlorine (Cl2), and bromine (Br2).

Halogens are often found in salts. A salt is a compound that forms positive and negative ions when dissolved in water. The halogens have a tendency to form single negative ions when dissolved. *The negative ion is called a halide ion; e.g., iodide (I-), fluoride (Fl-), chloride (Cl-), and bromide (Br-).*
http://www.iodine4health.com/special...s/halogens.htm
Dr. Abraham warns against kelp because the oceans contain more bromide than iodine:

Quote:

*Seaweed also concentrates other halides such as bromide, which possess goitrogenic, carcinogenic and narcoleptic properties* (1). Seawater is very poor in iodide and relatively rich in bromide with 0.05 PPM iodide and 70 PPM bromide. _*There is 1400 times more bromide than iodide in seawater.*_
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-12/IOD_12.htm
Bromide/bromine is thought to have been the cause of goiter (falsely attributed to iodine even to this day) from eating seaweed b/c this particular area was contaminated:

Quote:

Concerning iodide goiter, Wolff stated: "The most common form of iodide goiter is that seen in Hokkaido." The Japanese authors investigating the Hokkaido goiter did not think iodide was the cause of the thyroid enlargement since Japanese subjects from Tokyo without goiter excreted similar levels of iodide in their urine.9,10 Excess goitrogens in the diet of those subjects could explain their normal thyroid function in the presence of goiter, and this problem has since been solved. In 1994, 27 years after the original publication by Suzuki, et al,9 Konno, et al11 stated: "Kelp-induced endemic goiter was reported to occur in the coastal regions of Hokkaido nearly 30 years ago. Such goiter has now disappeared." Please note that Konno, et al called it *"kelp-induced goiter".*
www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-04/IOD_04.html
Dr. Brownstein on kelp:

Quote:

*Bromine is a member of the halide family of elements, which includes fluorine, chlorine, and iodine, and the reduced forms, bromide, chloride, fluoride, and iodide.*

Iodine is necessary for the production of thyroid hormone. And chloride, a common ingredient of salt, is necessary to keep the fluid inside and outside of your cells in balance.

But the other two halides, fluoride and bromine, are both carcinogens and have no therapeutic value (the idea that fluoride prevents tooth decay is more marketing hype than science). I recommend avoiding both.
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1357342


Quote:

Question: I went into a vitamin store to check out iodine supplements and was told it came only in the form of kelp. Could you tell me if this is true and how much kelp to take?

Dr. Brownstein's Answer:

Kelp can be a good source of iodine plus other phytonutrients. However, kelp also can present some problems. I analyzed a kelp supplement from a leading manufacturer and found it was contaminated with extremely high levels of arsenic. When I tried to contact the manufacturer about the issue, they were not interested in my findings. If you are going to use kelp or any sea vegetables in order to increase your iodine load, it is important to ingest a product that is grown in a pure area. That is hard to do, considering the level of pollution in our oceans. Also, iodine can sublimate, that is, change into a gaseous form and evaporate into the atmosphere. How much can evaporate from a kelp supplement? No one knows the answer, but I would guess that, the longer the product is away from the ocean, the more iodine has left the product.

Having said that, I feel that, if your goal is to increase your body's iodine levels, it is best to take a reliable supplement. In my view, two forms of iodine meet that criteria: Iodoral and Lugol's iodine. More information about iodine can be found in my July 2008 newsletter and online at www.drbrownstein.newsmax.com.


----------



## chlobo

Jane,

Do you use the liquid or the tablet form?


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OurGift* 
Thanks Jane,

So, I should assume that it could be bromides that are coming out of my saliva glands and should probably not swallow it, right? Should I assume that the overactive saliva glands are a bad thing? It was really annoying and I had to repetitively hold cold water in my mouth to calm down my tongue and not feel like I was drowning in saliva. If that makes sense...

Does anyone have the link to the iodine related Yahoo group that I have seen mentioned here?

Also, can someone link me to the sea vegetables/bromines/bromides warning?

Thanks so very much ladies!

Iodine Yahoo group link here (and lots more info on this site as well)
http://www.iodine4health.com/basic/iodinegroup.htm

I'm really not sure re: the saliva. I would post to the Yahoo group and see what kind of answers you get there, lots of very knowledgable people using iodine.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Jane,

Do you use the liquid or the tablet form?

I was doing Lugol's liquid but then moved to Iosol liquid... I have been having a hard time upping my dose. I have never tried the tablets b/c the dose is so high and I fear my detox pathways aren't ready for it. I think it's the mercury I never chelated after I had my fillings (safely) replaced. BUT since I've been doing high dose epsom salts baths I wonder if I might be ready, it's my goal of this year to step it up! My body temps are still low, so my thyroid is still clearly impaired. *&%(*% fillings.

FWIW the iodine yahoo group is of the opinion one should up the dose and blast though any detox reactions but that just doesn't make sense to me. I could be wrong!


----------



## JaneS

Oh and I was using Thyadine liquid for a while too.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeagleMommy* 
Has anyone tried nascent iodine? I have been taking it for a while with good results. My energy is much better. Overall, I feel much better, but I have also been taking dessicated porcine thyroid, too, so it's hard to tell how much is from the iodine vs. thyroid.
It can be bought from Nutrimedical.com
Any thoughts?

I have looked at that iodine but have yet to purchase iodine something keeps holding me back. I have hashis so maybe that 's why iodine scares me. I'm wondering If anyone has heard good things about nascent. I wonder what the difference is between nascent and iodoral or lugols


----------



## WuWei

The chemistry of a negative charge changes its oxidative state in the body. Just as iodine is different than iodide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodide

Heavy metal tested kelp is commonly available.









Pat


----------



## OurGift

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Iodine Yahoo group link here (and lots more info on this site as well)
http://www.iodine4health.com/basic/iodinegroup.htm

I'm really not sure re: the saliva. I would post to the Yahoo group and see what kind of answers you get there, lots of very knowledgable people using iodine.

Ok, I had!!! to finish my second bag of dulse today. It is like the. dulse. is. talking. to. me. telling me to eat it! This is crazy. I can't wait to join the iodine group (currently getting error message). Thanks so much!


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
The chemistry of a negative charge changes its oxidative state in the body. Just as iodine is different than iodide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodide

Heavy metal tested kelp is commonly available.









Pat

Yes, and both can displace iodine by attaching to the iodine/iodide receptors all over the body.

And therefore there is not bromide tested kelp, the issue is not just metals with seaweeds.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
I have looked at that iodine but have yet to purchase iodine something keeps holding me back. I have hashis so maybe that 's why iodine scares me. I'm wondering If anyone has heard good things about nascent. I wonder what the difference is between nascent and iodoral or lugols

Google 'marc sircus iodine' for Dr. Sircus' information, he is the only person talking about it as far as I know.


----------



## JaneS

Something I'm SERIOUSLY excited about....!!!

Just found out our raw milk dairy uses the traditional practice of disinfecting their cow's udders with *iodine.*









Which means our milk/cream/butter/cheese all has high amounts! I swear I had thought that it did since I am so sensitive. I felt like I noticed how my body would respond to eating a lot of it on some days.

Honestly I could cry with happiness knowing how well DS does on it.









And maybe he will not have the thyroid issues it seems like both sides of the family are plagued with.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Yes, and both can displace iodine by attaching to the iodine/iodide receptors all over the body.

And therefore there is not bromide tested kelp, the issue is not just metals with seaweeds.

Ok, the assertion is that broMINE blocks the iodine receptors? (I hadn't seen this documented in any pubmed or ncbi research. I buy that broMIDE may block iodine receptors. Wasn't there something upthread about one of the "iodine" supplements having ioDIDE?)

Then how come all those kelp eating cultures have healthy iodine intake? (just trying to make the 'theory' jive with the facts)

Pat


----------



## JaneS

Iodine is changed to iodide in the body. However, like other body processes, this can be interfered with, which is why the iodine researchers like to give both. The breasts and ovaries prefer iodine. The thyroid and other organs prefer iodide.

Both bromine and bromides can interfere with iodine and iodide uptake.
http://iodine4health.com/special/halogens/halogens.htm
See the front page, and then click on the names to the left for their research. Brownstein mentions both bromine and bromide in his book and also quoted in the link above under his name.

When did these cultures have healthy iodine uptake? Could it be before our seas became toxic? I just posted above an example of eating seaweed resulted in goiter, the exact opposite of what iodine does, and it is thought bromide is the issue b/c the area was contaminated at one point.

Also could there be a big difference from eating seaweed all your life and starting life with a well stocked iodine store ... and then us, trying to heal?

I have consumed a ridiculous amount of seaweed in both my v*gan and WAPF past and that did me no good at all since I'm still iodine deficient and bromide toxic. I'd like to spare others what I'm going through. If you can find a kelp supplement that regularly tests for bromides as well as metals go for it, but I so far haven't.

The other issue with seaweed is that like iodized salt, the iodine evaporates and it doesn't contain as much iodine soon after storage.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Something I'm SERIOUSLY excited about....!!!

Just found out our raw milk dairy uses the traditional practice of disinfecting their cow's udders with *iodine.*









Which means our milk/cream/butter/cheese all has high amounts! I swear I had thought that it did since I am so sensitive. I felt like I noticed how my body would respond to eating a lot of it on some days.

Honestly I could cry with happiness knowing how well DS does on it.









And maybe he will not have the thyroid issues it seems like both sides of the family are plagued with.

That's wonderful!! Will you continue to supp?


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
That's wonderful!! Will you continue to supp?

For him, no I haven't been giving him iodine except painting it on every cut.







I can't mess around with him too much right now, his allergies/intolerances/moods/sleeping/focus are so wonderfully stable on the nutrient plan we have now. And I'm worried about stirring up too many metals. Although I _should_ check his temps again just to be sure...


----------



## StrongBeliever

Bumping. I am a poor, overly-read chick trying to dx myself on my issues. I've been working with Iodine and feeling a little better, think I am detoxing bromide(which off sets the feeling better thing). That being said, I am trying to solve the mystery of the connections between Iodine deficiency, Hypothyroidism, Adrenal Fatigue and where that all has ominous fingers pointing to Lyme disease. I think. Brain Fog, oh no! If anyone has thoughts regarding those things, do share. LOVE this thread!


----------



## changingseasons

Paging JaneS!









Quick question- and I apologize if this has already been discussed... it's been months and months since I read this thread through.

I just started doing some reading at the vitamin K Yahoo Group about their vitamin K protocol (we're looking into it because of elevated oxalic acid levels in DD and possible calcium regulation issues.)

One of the group leaders says in her writings:

Quote:

The thyroid gland requires iodide in order to synthesize the thyroid hormones thyroxin (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3). Thus when supplemental iodine is added to the child's supplements, the form should be a potassium iodide solution. *Do not use Lugol's Solution or Iodoral tablets - the elemental iodine in these products will iodinate T3, turning it back into T4.*1 Do not use a kelp or a seaweed product because the form of iodine is unknown.
Any thoughts about this? I know that Lugol's and Iodoral are the 2 main sources that have been promoted throughout this thread, so reading this caught me by surprise.


----------



## meandk0610

Quote:


Originally Posted by *changingseasons* 
Paging JaneS!









Quick question- and I apologize if this has already been discussed... it's been months and months since I read this thread through.

I just started doing some reading at the vitamin K Yahoo Group about their vitamin K protocol (we're looking into it because of elevated oxalic acid levels in DD and possible calcium regulation issues.)

One of the group leaders says in her writings:

Any thoughts about this? I know that Lugol's and Iodoral are the 2 main sources that have been promoted throughout this thread, so reading this caught me by surprise.

i thought they are potassium iodide. where would you get potassium iodide if they're not?


----------



## changingseasons

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meandk0610* 
i thought they are potassium iodide. where would you get potassium iodide if they're not?









I'm not sure that she's saying they're _not_ potassium iodide, but that the form of iod*ine* will cause issues (at least that's how I'm reading it.) She recommends Tri-Quench by Scientific Botanicals or Biotics Research Liquid Iodine/Liquid Iodine Forte.


----------



## bluets

and here's a growing blog by Dr. K who does not recommend iodine to Hashimoto's patients:
http://drknews.com/2010/03/10/why-i-...otos-patients/


----------



## abiyhayil

subbing =)


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *changingseasons* 
Paging JaneS!









Quick question- and I apologize if this has already been discussed... it's been months and months since I read this thread through.

I just started doing some reading at the vitamin K Yahoo Group about their vitamin K protocol (we're looking into it because of elevated oxalic acid levels in DD and possible calcium regulation issues.)

One of the group leaders says in her writings:

Any thoughts about this? I know that Lugol's and Iodoral are the 2 main sources that have been promoted throughout this thread, so reading this caught me by surprise.

I've never seen this before, is there a reference for this? I went into the group files and she doesn't cite background. Different organs use iodine and iodide.


----------



## changingseasons

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I've never seen this before, is there a reference for this? I went into the group files and she doesn't cite background. Different organs use iodine and iodide.

She has that reference listed as:

Quote:

1Evidence of thyroxine formation following iodine administration in Sprague-Dawley rats. Thrall KD, Sauer RL, Bull RJ. J Toxicol Environ Health. 1992 Dec;37(4):535-48.
(It was in the middle of the doc, not at the end.)


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meandk0610* 
i thought they are potassium iodide. where would you get potassium iodide if they're not?










They are a combination of both iodine and iodide.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *changingseasons* 
She has that reference listed as:

(It was in the middle of the doc, not at the end.)


It seems like a stretch to me to make that inference based on this one animal study but I'm not as familiar with her protocol and the history of giving only iodide to humans. Is this also coming from the Wilson's Syndrome information on reverse T3? It's been a while since I've read that.

I'm confused b/c she bases some of her theories on iodine/iodide on Dr. Brownstein's research:

Quote:

The concept of a high loading dose followed after several months by a lower maintenance dose is based on the work of Dr. David Brownstein (see references). The high loading dose supplies iodide to non-thyroidal tissues and organs that utilize iodide; once those tissues are replete, the iodide dose is reduced to a maintenance level.
But what about the non-thyroidal tissues and organs which use iodine, which is a good part of Brownstein's research and why he recs both iodine and iodide?

I would ask this question on the Iodine Yahoo group.

I would also love to know more about how the body converts iodine to iodide. I wonder if there are some people who cannot convert it, and that is not one the problems that needs to be overcome?


----------



## Theloose

Time to throw in my data point...

My thyroid tests normal, though free T4 is high-ish (within normal) and free T3 is low-ish (within normal). So I think I have trouble converting. My only thyroid symptoms are fatigue and cold temperature. My mom has clear and obvious thyroid stuff, though (and tests normal for everything, too).

At the beginning of this pregnancy (39 weeks now), I started supping atomidine (low dose, iodide only) to work up to a decent dose of iodine to switch to lugol's. I quickly discovered that 1) if I took iodine, I didn't have pressing fatigue the next day; and 2) the lugol's didn't have any effect at all compared to the atomidine, even at higher doses.

So the two explanations I can come up with are, either the lugol's is old (it was about 18 months old, stored in it's dark bottle, not opened very much), or the form makes a big difference for me.

Strangely, I stopped needing the iodine second trimester, and I'm only sporadically using it now...


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
and here's a growing blog by Dr. K who does not recommend iodine to Hashimoto's patients:
http://drknews.com/2010/03/10/why-i-...otos-patients/

While I know that iodine can exacerbate Hashi's, I'm still not sure that the the correct endpoint to arrive. I just read that one page but I didn't see mention of selenium deficiency... Brownstein treats his Hashi's patients as deficienct in both iodine and antioxidants as the etiology of the disease. Selenium alone will reduce TPO antibodies. Magnesium and other antioxidants are recommended as well, ATP cofactors: B2 and B3, vitamin C.

My holistic RD takes high iodine, along with other nutritional protocols, including going gluten free, and her Hashi's has improved greatly, to the tune of having another baby! (Low thyroid is often a cause of infertility.)


----------



## cheryllynn

Hi All -

I am new here and glad I found this thread. I hope you forgive me for not reading all 31 pages and get right to my questions.

Six years ago my thyroid was tested with mixed results. My TSH/T3/T4 and reverse something were all normal, however I had high anti-thyroid antibodies (ATA).

I used natural products and requested my ATA be retested after several months and even though doctor resisted testing, wrote the prescription and my ATA's declined frm > 400 to 12.

I then did the loading test and iodine was 67%. They did not order the bromine excretion part of the test at that time so I do not know. I was on 25 mg Ioderol due to small thyroid nodules. Also at that time I had 12 uterine fibroids. I became pregnant. I stopped the ioderol because I was concerned of bromine/chlorine/flouride/mercury detoxing. I have now been breastfeeding for 10 months. We are weaning soon and I look forward to returning to Ioderol.

Six months post-partum, my thyroid nodules returned and my ATA's are now > 200. I assume that pregnancy had something to do with this. My ATA's were between 12-13 for about four years, prior to pregnancy.

Questions:
1. how much ioderol supplementing do you think is safe for pregnancy in 1st trimester, 2nd & 3rd trimester?
2. Would you be concerned with any type of detoxing created by the high doses of iodine/iodide during pregnancy?
3. How much during breastfeeding?

I have read one of Dr Brownstein's books on thyroid & Iodine.

The endocrinologist wants to do a needle biopsy of the largest nodule, wants me to start prescription T4 drug, did not ask or mention iodine supplementation at all. I am not taking the T4 drug as it also passes through to breast milk. I would prefer to use high doses of iodine instead.

Thank you for your comments/suggestions.

p.s. post partum ultrasound shows only two small fibroids remain. ?? Not sure which natural product I used, but it was not iodine because I stopped taking it during pregnancy.

p.p.s. I just found a goat farm that will sell raw milk. I will call and ask if they use iodine.


----------



## SandyMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
While I know that iodine can exacerbate Hashi's, I'm still not sure that the the correct endpoint to arrive. I just read that one page but I didn't see mention of selenium deficiency... Brownstein treats his Hashi's patients as deficienct in both iodine and antioxidants as the etiology of the disease. Selenium alone will reduce TPO antibodies. Magnesium and other antioxidants are recommended as well, ATP cofactors: B2 and B3, vitamin C.

My holistic RD takes high iodine, along with other nutritional protocols, including going gluten free, and her Hashi's has improved greatly, to the tune of having another baby! (Low thyroid is often a cause of infertility.)

Same here!
I have Hashi's and can't tolerate any THR. High doses of iodine (Iodoral) have been a godsend for me.


----------



## JaneS

Cheryl,

I would seek out an iodine literate practitioner to work with since you are dealing with Hashi's.
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/ipractitioners.html

Pregnancy and breastfeeding also puts a strain on iodine stores as the baby and breastmilk requires it as well. There is not a hard and fast rule re: detoxing, it so individual as to what you are dealing with. There is some research at www.iodine4health.com you can look into on pregnancy.

I would make sure I was taking enough quality supplements to support my thyroid.

B vitamins, I currently love MegaFood's Balanced Bs, I take 1 w/ bfast and 1 w/ lunch.

High vitamin cod liver oil, 2 tsp of Blue Ice or Radiant Life.

Extra D3 since you live in MN, see The Vitamin D Council website.

Selenium 200mcg. per day at the lowest amount, I like Jarrow's SeleNext.

Vitamin C sodium ascorbate several grams per day and/or natural form NOW Acerola powder.

Magnesium, chelated or glycinate or citrate 1000mg/day divided and/or transdermal oil and/or Epsom salt baths.


----------



## cheryllynn

Hi Jane -

Thank you for your answers.

There is no physician in Minnesota. My functional medicine M.D. started me on ioderol after the iodine loading test. He does know some, but not as much as I'd like.

I was on the iodine yahoo group 2008/2009 and did not receive any help with my pregnancy questions. That's why I do continue to ask questions where I can. I can go back there and check again as I haven't kept up with that group this past year.

I do use D3, cod liver oil, vitamin B.
I have not checked how much selenium I am getting but will add that.
I do have calme forte for magnesium but am unsure when to use it. It says to keep increasing until loose stools, but I don't have any bm issues and am afraid my stools will get loser, they are fine right now.

I am currently taking 12.5 mg iodine and am looking forward to being able to increase to 25 once dd is weaned.


----------



## Miss Information

subbing. I was just dx'd with Hashimoto's thyroiditis and doing some research about iodine. I'd better check out that link about iodine an H.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Miss Information* 
subbing. I was just dx'd with Hashimoto's thyroiditis and doing some research about iodine. I'd better check out that link about iodine an H.

I to have hashis...still haven't decided on iodine since the info is conflicting







I'm currently reading this book at www.thyroidbook.com

It's full of great info and is all about people with Hashis. I absolutely love the book.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
I to have hashis...still haven't decided on iodine since the info is conflicting







I'm currently reading this book at www.thyroidbook.com

It's full of great info and is all about people with Hashis. I absolutely love the book.

been meaning to get that


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
been meaning to get that

OH JacquelineR you really should soon....I think you will love it. It has a great section on adrenal fatigue as well. When you do get it let me know what you think


----------



## JaneS

So if he doesn't use iodine or thyroid hormone to treat Hashi's, what does he use?

What does he say is the cause? His stat that 90% of hypo is caused by Hashi's is really surprising to me. Does he think that the antibody ranges are wrong? (Thinking I have to go back and look at my tests now. I know I was in the normal range.)


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
So if he doesn't use iodine or thyroid hormone to treat Hashi's, what does he use?

What does he say is the cause? His stat that 90% of hypo is caused by Hashi's is really surprising to me. Does he think that the antibody ranges are wrong? (Thinking I have to go back and look at my tests now. I know I was in the normal range.)

He uses diet(no gluten, possibly no dairy),herbs, and other supplements,and in some cases thyroid hormone. One of his first steps is to determine whether a person is TH-1 dominant or TH-2. The risk factors he mentions for developing Hahis is gluten intolerance,insulin resistance, PCOS, estrogen fluctuations,Vitamin D deficiency,chronic infection, inflammation and immune reaction to heavy metals and environmental pollutants.He also has a chapter on 22 patterns of low thyroid function that's so interesting! His main course of action is to treat the immune system not the thyroid first since hashis is an immune disease and not a thyroid disease. He doesn't think the antibody ranges are wrong. He gives a lot of recs for supps but doesn't name brands or amounts to take.

I'm not the best at explaining things so I hope that helped. It's really a great book, I just finished it.I would love to get into his practice! I'm surprised that you haven't read it Jane.


----------



## WuWei

Sounds interesting, did you read his bio? Feels a bit 'certification happy'. And has most of his experience in sports medicine?

"He is a *product development consultant* to the nutrition industry and *has been involved with the formulation* of nutritional products such as metabolic creams, nutritional and herbal formulas, sublingual hormones and metabolic foods" makes me doubt his accuracy. However, I like the theory and am curious of his research.

"instructed over 4,000 hours of postgraduate education in laboratory analysis, diagnosis, and nutritional management." is about two years of ACADEMIC (non-real life) experience. And he is fresh on the scene with his new website? Looking for real stories and experience to read. Sounds like a pharmaceutical MD in nutritional supplement DC clothes, to me who is internet marketing a book on a popular topic.

His "testimonials" come from _his classes_, it appears, not from consulting and treating real patients. http://www.thyroidbook.com/book-testimonials.html

I'll go check PubMed, etc.

Sounds a bit like Dr. Mercola selling HIS solution to the world's problems. Am I sounding cynical today?

Pat


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Sounds a bit like Dr. Mercola selling HIS solution to the world's problems. Am I sounding cynical today?

Pat

When he explains things in the book, he gets to a level of detail that satisfies my curiosity. I haven't dived into thyroid stuff much to be able to compare it to other resources, but just based on how he writes, it seems like he actually knows what he's talking about. I'm taking it as a great starting point, but still want to do my own fact checking to make sure I'm interpreting things the same as him.


----------



## WuWei

"He instructs postgraduate courses sponsored by Bridgeport [University?] and conducts seminars across the country." http://www.nutritionalwellness.com/a...5_insomnia.php

A bit more info about what the book purports. http://allergyexpert.wordpress.com/2...llergy-relief/

I find NO ncbi or Pubmed studies to his credit.

Seems like a marketing rep. http://hormoneseminars.com/about.htm

Some interesting studies he references. (not his research)

"In conclusion, 78.3% of patients with hypothyroidism due to Hashimoto's thyroiditis regained an euthyroid state iodine restriction alone. Both a low initial serum TSH and a high initial urinary iodine concentration can be predictable factors for a recovery from hypothyroidism due to Hashimoto's thyroiditis after restricting their iodine intake.(13) "
http://drknews.com/2010/03/08/some-s...yroid-disease/

An interesting further discussion of *iodine restriction to address hypothyroid?!?* http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/459924_4

It seems to postulate that _in a small subset_ of hypothyroid patients (seemingly those with auto-immune thyroid issues _associated with celiac_, perhaps?) could benefit from iodine restriction and instead supplement thyroid hormone replacement (which is available for sale!).

Thus the recs to avoid grains, restrict iodine and buy thyroid supplements. Wonder if he consults with thyroid supplement manufacturers?

ETA: I ran across a testing lab he is working for which does his recommended lab tests. The connection to lab testing services and manufacturers leads me to question the objectivity of the testing/supplement recs. I know this is common with many "health professionals" nowadays. http://www.professionalco-op.com/seminars/seminars.html

His seminars are expensive! http://gowen.info/yahoo_site_admin/a....333112254.pdf

Pat


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
When he explains things in the book, he gets to a level of detail that satisfies my curiosity. I haven't dived into thyroid stuff much to be able to compare it to other resources, but just based on how he writes, it seems like he actually knows what he's talking about. I'm taking it as a great starting point, but still want to do my own fact checking to make sure I'm interpreting things the same as him.

Best testimonial I've read today.









Pat


----------



## WuWei

Apparently, Glysen, Adaptocrine, Adrenocalm are some of the recommended supplements and are proprietary to Apex Energetics, for whom he does "educational" seminars. http://www.apexenergetics.com/

"According to Dr. Datis Kharrazian, Blood Chemistry Seminar instructor and supplements formulator for Apex Energetics, Inc"

Pat


----------



## WuWei

Confessions of a serial poster. I'm obsessed with this idea of locating research about nutrition and autoimmune thyroid issues.









As an fyi:
_Datis Kharrazian from Apex Energetics says *not to use maca*, because it up regulates the Th1 immune response, which is also responsible for Hashimoto's. I have found studies corroborating Th1 cytokines involved in Hashimoto's but nothing about maca's immune stimulating effects._

http://www.macatalk.com/faqs/adrenal.html

Pat


----------



## WuWei

I am both intrigued by the science and impressed by the marketing acumen.

This is the marketing spiel to nutrition/chiro's to " Functional Marketing Building your ideal science-based nutrition practice." promoted by Datis Kharrazian Apex Energetics in his "educational seminars"

Quote:

10 Steps to Success with Functional Nutrion

Implementing Functional Medicine
Blood Nutrition System

Why your office needs Apex's Blood Software
Top 30 Apex Products

Only Stock what works & sells the best
Affordable & Effective Local Advertising

Focus your efforts & advertising dollars
Patient Marketing Letter

Free Metabolic Assessment

http://www.adamapex.com/about-me/

ETA: Buy now, *Grand Total for 12-month program* *$ 2,859.35* *Price per month* *$ 238.28* (DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY SUPPLEMENT PRODUCTS SOLD TO THE PATIENT)

"*Run a comprehensive blood panel on everyone* in your office NOW (or on their first visit) and follow-up every 30-60 days with the same panel. You can't believe how much of a difference this will make with your patients. Your credibility and results will soar. Tech support is free through Apex tech support for all of your cases. You can sell packages for multiple visits and labs that will save them huge amounts of money, and by using Direct Labs or Professional Co-op your rates are incredibly low for testing too."

"As part of the program family, you will also receive a 10% discount on most supplements required for the program"

http://www.adamapex.com/ (select "home")

Pat


----------



## WuWei

cynical, I am.









Pat


----------



## cheryllynn

I am not sure what the controversy is between Hashi's and iodine. I know I'm going back to what worked for me. My beloved DD is now weaned and I have increased my iodine (Ioderol) to 25 mg / day. I have a functional medicine doctor who writes prescriptions for blood tests when I request. I plan on retesting my thyroid now - it's been two months since the last ATA + test - and again at the end of May.

I know that ATA's have been somewhat linked to increased miscarriage rates. One RE's site explains that it is not exactly the ATA's that are the issue but that it is an indication there is an immune response going on in the body that may affect pregnancy outcome.

I know I'd like to see my ATA's back down prior to TTC again.

I did look at the amount of selenium I am taking and it is over 400 mcg / day. Would I benefit by adding more?

My plan is 25 mg / iodine per day plus Young Living Essential Oil's Frankincense oil applied topically 2 - 3 times per day. I did the Frankincense oil in 2006 and my ATA's were 12 / 13 for three years until I became pregnant. A negative ATA test range is < 10. After testing > 400 I was very happy with a 12 / 13.

ETA: I am increasing the iodine to shrink thyroid nodules. I was able to shrink 2 nodules in six week's time in 2008. Now I have four nodules. Not really interested in a biopsy. I mean, if iodine can shrink my nodules, why do a biopsy?

WuWei - thank you for all your time and posting on the Apex topic.


----------



## mom61508

Ya thanks Pat....









I wonder If the supps really work??? some of the creams he mentions for adrenals and glutathione cream seem really interesting. Maybe I'm just gullible







Pat will you read the book?


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cheryllynn* 
I am not sure what the controversy is between Hashi's and iodine. I know I'm going back to what worked for me. My beloved DD is now weaned and I have increased my iodine (Ioderol) to 25 mg / day. I have a functional medicine doctor who writes prescriptions for blood tests when I request. I plan on retesting my thyroid now - it's been two months since the last ATA + test - and again at the end of May.

I know that ATA's have been somewhat linked to increased miscarriage rates. One RE's site explains that it is not exactly the ATA's that are the issue but that it is an indication there is an immune response going on in the body that may affect pregnancy outcome.

I know I'd like to see my ATA's back down prior to TTC again.

I did look at the amount of selenium I am taking and it is over 400 mcg / day. Would I benefit by adding more?

My plan is 25 mg / iodine per day plus Young Living Essential Oil's Frankincense oil applied topically 2 - 3 times per day. I did the Frankincense oil in 2006 and my ATA's were 12 / 13 for three years until I became pregnant. A negative ATA test range is < 10. After testing > 400 I was very happy with a 12 / 13.

ETA: I am increasing the iodine to shrink thyroid nodules. I was able to shrink 2 nodules in six week's time in 2008. Now I have four nodules. Not really interested in a biopsy. I mean, if iodine can shrink my nodules, why do a biopsy?

WuWei - thank you for all your time and posting on the Apex topic.

It's said that For some with Hashis iodine can make symptoms worse...I have yet to try it tho.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
It's said that For some with Hashis iodine can make symptoms worse...I have yet to try it tho.

I believe the concern is that it increases antibodies in some patients, causing not just a worsening of symptoms but an attack on the thyroid, which ends up compromising their thyroid further.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I believe the concern is that it increases antibodies in some patients, causing not just a worsening of symptoms but an attack on the thyroid, which ends up compromising their thyroid further.

Yep


----------



## cheryllynn

So if I need iodine to reduce nodules but I also have anti-bodies, is there another alternative to address both nodules and anti-bodies?

I have started chinese herbs but my practitioner mentioned that it would take about six months to see resolution.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cheryllynn* 
So if I need iodine to reduce nodules but I also have anti-bodies, is there another alternative to address both nodules and anti-bodies?

I have started chinese herbs but my practitioner mentioned that it would take about six months to see resolution.

I'm sure there are some that iodine may help so If you have taken it before maybe it works for you??? I would really consider reading www.thyroidbook.com because he really goes into depth about the thyroid antibodies maybe even your HCP would be willing to check it out??


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
I'm sure there are some that iodine may help so If you have taken it before maybe it works for you??? I would really consider reading www.thyroidbook.com because he really goes into depth about the thyroid antibodies maybe even your HCP would be willing to check it out??

Somewhere in this thread, there's a link to iodine literate HCPs. I would suggest checking it out and seeing one of them. (The closest one to me is 4 hours away.







)


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Somewhere in this thread, there's a link to iodine literate HCPs. I would suggest checking it out and seeing one of them. (The closest one to me is 4 hours away.







)

I think it has something to do with the breast cancer site???


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cheryllynn* 
So if I need iodine to reduce nodules but I also have anti-bodies, is there another alternative to address both nodules and anti-bodies?

I have started chinese herbs but my practitioner mentioned that it would take about six months to see resolution.

editing: Nevermind, couldn't remember what I posted here a few weeks ago!

Are you strictly gluten free?


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrongBeliever* 
Bumping. I am a poor, overly-read chick trying to dx myself on my issues. I've been working with Iodine and feeling a little better, think I am detoxing bromide(which off sets the feeling better thing). That being said, I am trying to solve the mystery of the connections between Iodine deficiency, Hypothyroidism, Adrenal Fatigue and where that all has ominous fingers pointing to Lyme disease. I think. Brain Fog, oh no! If anyone has thoughts regarding those things, do share. LOVE this thread!

I missed this a while ago, sorry!

The adrenal glands and thyroid are intimately connected.

http://www.westonaprice.org/Low-Meta...Therapies.html

http://www.westonaprice.org/Further-...-by-Mouth.html


----------



## Pattyla

It has been ages since I have been here. Too busy cooking and keeping it all together. I'm looking into the vitamin K protocol and they use something called triquench for the iodine. Anyone have any input on that?

I haven't gone back over posts to see if it has been discussed yet but I'll run a search.


----------



## MomToEmerson

Quick question for the "experts" here









I did the iodine protocol form breastcancerchoices.org and had lacerations all over my tongue and mouth, boils on skin, etc. I add the salt flushes fo a while and symptoms got better. I continued for about a month with no return of detox symptoms other than the occassional metallic taste under my tongue. I am now newly pregnant. What is your recommendation - continue as I am? Take less? Take more? Add something else?

Here is a chart of what I am now taking - I added all supplements up for my 1st OB appt today.

A10000IU
Alpha lipoic acid1mg
Ascorbyl Palmitate25mg
B1 Thiamin6.88mg
B122125mcg
B2 Riboflavin258mg
B618.4mg
C1180mg
calcium85mg
chromium210mcg
D200IU
D Biotin300mcg
D3200IU
DHA453mg
E300IU
EPA320mg
Folic Acid2.25mg
K1100mcg
K2 mq41000mcg
K2 mq7100mcg
Lugol's Iodine50mg
Magnesium775mg
Manganese0.5mg
MCT oil215mg
Niacin105mg
Pantothenic Acid22.5mg
Phosphorous38mg
Potassium200mg
Quercetin1mg
Selenium400mcg
Thyroid120mg
Zinc67mg

Thanks for any advice. I want to give baby what he/she needs but don't want to harm with detoxing. KWIM?








Melissa


----------



## lil_miss_understood

I would probably decrease A while pregnant. Also, I would supplement a little more D than that (although I might get it tested first). And what form of folic acid are you taking? I might consider switching to, or adding, something with 5-MTHF (methyltetrahydrofolate). I would also increase vitamin C significantly- it helps with just so many of the detox pathways.







but I'm no expert by far.


----------



## cheryllynn

MomToEmerson -

I take 2000 IU of D3 daily. My D3 level was just checked at 41. My doctor wants me to increase to 3000 IU daily.

How do you get 50 mg of Lugol's Iodine?

I'm really not that familiar with the rest. I know my naturopath wanted me on 15,ooo IU A in supplements alone. I was not comfortable with that. She stressed that it was from a natural source. I guess I'd rather juice carrots.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomToEmerson* 
Quick question for the "experts" here









I did the iodine protocol form breastcancerchoices.org and had lacerations all over my tongue and mouth, boils on skin, etc. I add the salt flushes fo a while and symptoms got better. I continued for about a month with no return of detox symptoms other than the occassional metallic taste under my tongue. I am now newly pregnant. What is your recommendation - continue as I am? Take less? Take more? Add something else?

Here is a chart of what I am now taking - I added all supplements up for my 1st OB appt today.

A10000IU
Alpha lipoic acid1mg
Ascorbyl Palmitate25mg
B1 Thiamin6.88mg
B122125mcg
B2 Riboflavin258mg
B618.4mg
C1180mg
calcium85mg
chromium210mcg
D200IU
D Biotin300mcg
D3200IU
DHA453mg
E300IU
EPA320mg
Folic Acid2.25mg
K1100mcg
K2 mq41000mcg
K2 mq7100mcg
Lugol's Iodine50mg
Magnesium775mg
Manganese0.5mg
MCT oil215mg
Niacin105mg
Pantothenic Acid22.5mg
Phosphorous38mg
Potassium200mg
Quercetin1mg
Selenium400mcg
Thyroid120mg
Zinc67mg

Thanks for any advice. I want to give baby what he/she needs but don't want to harm with detoxing. KWIM?








Melissa

How about doing fermented codliver oil and get rid of the A? I personally would do more D as well. I would also do folapro instead of the folic acid or add to what you're doing? I also would make sure ny vitamins/minerals where from 100% whole foods









JR-What kind of C do you take? I'm taking SA but I'm worried about it not having any bioflavanoids but it seems the other forms of C are hard to get in high doses without having to take a TON!


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
JR-What kind of C do you take? I'm taking SA but I'm worried about it not having any bioflavanoids but it seems the other forms of C are hard to get in high doses without having to take a TON!

I take ascorbic acid (Kirkland's Signature, Costco brand







), 1-1g tablet twice a day. It contains citrus bioflavanoids and rose hips, supposedly.
I tried The Right C sodium ascorbate but it causes me GI distress even in small amounts.







Not sure why.







The only thing my ND and I can come up with is the "glyco-nutrient metabolites" (whatever THAT is) mess with me somehow.


----------



## mbravebird

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomToEmerson* 
Quick question for the "experts" here









I did the iodine protocol form breastcancerchoices.org and had lacerations all over my tongue and mouth, boils on skin, etc. I add the salt flushes fo a while and symptoms got better. I continued for about a month with no return of detox symptoms other than the occassional metallic taste under my tongue. I am now newly pregnant. What is your recommendation - continue as I am? Take less? Take more? Add something else?

Here is a chart of what I am now taking - I added all supplements up for my 1st OB appt today.

A10000IU
Alpha lipoic acid1mg
Ascorbyl Palmitate25mg
B1 Thiamin6.88mg
B122125mcg
B2 Riboflavin258mg
B618.4mg
C1180mg
calcium85mg
chromium210mcg
D200IU
D Biotin300mcg
D3200IU
DHA453mg
E300IU
EPA320mg
Folic Acid2.25mg
K1100mcg
K2 mq41000mcg
K2 mq7100mcg
Lugol's Iodine50mg
Magnesium775mg
Manganese0.5mg
MCT oil215mg
Niacin105mg
Pantothenic Acid22.5mg
Phosphorous38mg
Potassium200mg
Quercetin1mg
Selenium400mcg
Thyroid120mg
Zinc67mg

Thanks for any advice. I want to give baby what he/she needs but don't want to harm with detoxing. KWIM?








Melissa

What form of A are you taking? That matters in terms of how much you want. Synthetic can cause problems. A also requires D for processing, so taking more A ups your need for D. Vice versa, too. A and D are sort of like calcium and magnesium in their relationship to each other, except it goes both ways with A and D.

No advice on the detox aspect; I just thought I'd pop in for a second.


----------



## mom61508

When do you decided If iodine should be given to a toddler?

DD possibly has a slightly sluggish thyroid. Although her HCP doesn't seemed to concerned but I'm not sure she's right.

Thyroid lab results
TSH 2.56
free T3 3.5
Free T4 1.6

Her HCP wants me to get her thyroid tested again as well as some other labs that came up high.


----------



## cheryllynn

There should be age-adjusted ranges with those numbers. I am pretty sure you can't apply adult ranges to toddlers.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cheryllynn* 
There should be age-adjusted ranges with those numbers. I am pretty sure you can't apply adult ranges to toddlers.

Ya you would think so but I haven't found anything that says what "normal" ranges are for children, maybe I haven't looked in the right places.


----------



## BeingMe

I just got my loading iodine test results back from Doctors Data and it said that out of loading dosage of 50mg I excreted 28mg for a 56% excretion percentage. I am planning on getting pregant really soon and taking 1/2 tab of iodoral daily but my doc says to stop it if I get pregnant. What should I do?
Also, 2 years ago when my thyroid antibodies were tested they were at 0, and now my TPO is 40 (range 0-60) and my thyroglobulin antibodies are at 50 (range 0-60). Should I be concerned? I was taking echinacea a while back on and off, would this have raised it? And what role does low ferritin (mine is 12), have in this?
I also take NewChapter prenatals, liver capsules(just started), goat milk colostrum, lactoferrin, mega foods b complex, zinc (for skin tags, lines in nails, and can't taste the solution in the taste test), digestive enzymes, lemon water in the morning, herbs from acupuncturist, probiotics, clo/fish oil, vitamin c, and vitamin d. In case this matters
Thanks!!


----------



## JaneS

See STTM site for low ferritin info:
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ferritin/

I would be concerned about the antibodies rising
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/hashimotos/

Iodine can increase antibodies if you have untreated Hashimoto's. Any chance of gluten intolerance? that is usually the case with exacerbates Hashi's.


----------



## JaneS

And Re: pregnancy

80% pregnant women are iodine deficient:
http://drdavidbrownstein.blogspot.co...re-iodine.html

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Ya you would think so but I haven't found anything that says what "normal" ranges are for children, maybe I haven't looked in the right places.

I don't know this for sure either and should since DS just got tested. We are awaiting results and I will let you know what I find out after our appt next Thurs. Brownstein does rec iodine for children and the most current edition of his book has weight/dose guidelines... I think I posted earlier in this thread?

http://drdavidbrownstein.blogspot.co...ed-iodine.html


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
And Re: pregnancy

80% pregnant women are iodine deficient:
http://drdavidbrownstein.blogspot.co...re-iodine.html

This SCARES ME! We want to conceive again shortly but I just can't figure out whether to not to supp iodine because of Hashis. I can't imagine I get enough from diet alone.

I don't know this for sure either and should since DS just got tested. We are awaiting results and I will let you know what I find out after our appt next Thurs. Brownstein does rec iodine for children and the most current edition of his book has weight/dose guidelines... I think I posted earlier in this thread?

http://drdavidbrownstein.blogspot.co...ed-iodine.html

Please do post about your DS that would be very helpful







Thank you for links off to read!


----------



## BeingMe

Thank you Jane for the response. I have been blood tested for celiac which was negative, but the only allergy test I had done was IGE and that was negative. I do try to avoid wheat, but will get it occasionally.
My doctor told me to stop the iodoral if I get pregnant but doesn't have any recommendations as a replacement. Any suggestions? I would like to continue some form of iodine since I don't eat iodized salt and don't eat any fish/seaweed.
Thanks again!


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeingMe* 
Thank you Jane for the response. I have been blood tested for celiac which was negative, but the only allergy test I had done was IGE and that was negative. I do try to avoid wheat, but will get it occasionally.
My doctor told me to stop the iodoral if I get pregnant but doesn't have any recommendations as a replacement. Any suggestions? I would like to continue some form of iodine since I don't eat iodized salt and don't eat any fish/seaweed.
Thanks again!









Just keep in mind That If your sensitive to gluten it won't show up on a celiac test. I think the best way to truly tell If your sensitive is to eliminate it for 6 weeks and reintroduce. It's also a good idea to get rid of gluten for adrenal purposes. It's hard on the adrenals and I think it's really important to do all you can for your adrenals when you're trying to get pregnant because pregnancy is so hard on the adrenals. Just my 2 cents


----------



## gilamama

thanks for this thread!!!!!!!!

i am only up to page 4. but when supping iodine a person also needs selenium, mag, c, and the Bs? ANything else?

what abt a person who is not into avoiding the occational (weekly?) cola or using fluride free toothpaste? umm a person who is my dh... would iodine (lugols) be ok?


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gilamama* 
thanks for this thread!!!!!!!!

i am only up to page 4. but when supping iodine a person also needs selenium, mag, c, and the Bs? ANything else?

what abt a person who is not into avoiding the occational (weekly?) cola or using fluride free toothpaste? umm a person who is my dh... would iodine (lugols) be ok?

i believe iodine would prevent the fluoride from attaching to halogen receptors and cause it to simply be excreted, assuming the detox pathways are working appropriately.


----------



## gilamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
i believe iodine would prevent the fluoride from attaching to halogen receptors and cause it to simply be excreted, assuming the detox pathways are working appropriately.

and what abt assuming they are not?


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gilamama* 
and what abt assuming they are not?

Assuming they are not, I would do everything in my power to get them working more effectively before doing _anything_ that might detox. But I tend to be incredibly cautious that way.


----------



## Punchy Kaby

Goodness, there is a lot of info in this thread! I finally finished reading it all, I hope some of you are still around to answer questions.

I had just started supplementing Iodine (actually SSKI/Triquench), I started at a very small dose 100mcg and have worked my way up to 1mg per day. I was having detox symptoms at lower dosages but as I worked my way up they lessened or rather, changed. 2.5 years ago I tried supplementing with this and after a couple of months worked my way up to 100mcg, I felt hyperthyroid as well as having unmanageable fatigue and I tried asking questions at the Iodine Yahoo group, but could not find any answers. I wonder after reading this thread if I was not using the proper supporting nutrients.

JaneS-have you used Thyactin? I was thinking of trying the iodine form and this is a low dose. I have yet to read all the links you provided for the argument of taking iodine vs iodide. I originally purchased Triquench because I was following the Vitamin K protocol. Do you have an opinion on Nascent Iodine? http://www.magnascent.com/index.php/..._store=default

There are times when I feel nauseous. Salt flush made it worse, swimming in the ocean made it really bad. Any ideas of what it could be? Would taking bentonite clay help? How would I take clay internally?

Something I have noticed is that taking iodide has made my oxalate sensitivity worse and my tolerance for calcium far lower, I only eat a little calcium daily in foods and take no supplement. Any ideas as to why this has happened?

Is iodide best taken on an empty stomach?


----------



## moneca

I haven't been on MDC in FOREVER, but had to drop in with a quick post for this thread. I've been detoxing bromide (and God knows what else) with 50 mg of lugols since Nov '08. I had been requiring 4 tsp of sea salt per day to flush the bromide. About 3 months ago I finally switched to nascent iodine (thanks Jane for the mention). Well, my bromide detox became intolerable. Even with the 4 tsp of sea salt per day the breakthrough itching was horrible. I truly appeared to have fleas and was scratching 24/7!

At the same time my husband got a bad stomach bug that he couldn't shake. I gave him a dose of Yerba Prima hydrated bentonite clay and his symptoms abated after that one dose. I was reminded of how well the bentonite had worked to clear my mercury symptoms long before I had my amalgams removed/chelated. Since I had a bottle in the house, I decided to try it for bromide clearance. It worked like a charm







. I still had some breakthrough itching after 4 days of starting the clay, but it worked much more effectively than the salt. Taking 1 TBSP per day was SO much easier than taking 1 tsp of sea salt 4x with each dose being 90 minutes apart







. VERY IMPORTANT : always take clay with at least 12 oz of water to avoid constipation!

Best,


----------



## meandk0610

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca* 
I haven't been on MDC in FOREVER, but had to drop in with a quick post for this thread. I've been detoxing bromide (and God knows what else) with 50 mg of lugols since Nov '08. I had been requiring 4 tsp of sea salt per day to flush the bromide. About 3 months ago I finally switched to nascent iodine (thanks Jane for the mention). Well, my bromide detox became intolerable. Even with the 4 tsp of sea salt per day the breakthrough itching was horrible. I truly appeared to have fleas and was scratching 24/7!

At the same time my husband got a bad stomach bug that he couldn't shake. I gave him a dose of Yerba Prima hydrated bentonite clay and his symptoms abated after that one dose. I was reminded of how well the bentonite had worked to clear my mercury symptoms long before I had my amalgams removed/chelated. Since I had a bottle in the house, I decided to try it for bromide clearance. It worked like a charm







. I still had some breakthrough itching after 4 days of starting the clay, but it worked much more effectively than the salt. Taking 1 TBSP per day was SO much easier than taking 1 tsp of sea salt 4x with each dose being 90 minutes apart







. VERY IMPORTANT : always take clay with at least 12 oz of water to avoid constipation!

Best,

how did you take the clay? did you mix it into the water?


----------



## Punchy Kaby

Anyone around that has been taking iodine? I'm wondering about a few things...

I've worked my way up to 5mg a day and I feel pretty good, sometimes I have energy but I find that I sleep like a rock, almost like I am drugged and wake up groggy. My daytime energy has been about the same since starting iodine (6 weeks ago). I have NO appetite (although I still eat and have cravings for food.) I am gaining weight slowly, and I don't need to gain any weight. Last time I tried taking iodine I went a bit hyperthyroid, so now I'm going the opposite way. I'm getting itchy now and then, it's noticeable but not uncomfortable, is this bromine detox?


----------



## yaM yaM

I just want to say that I am so grateful to find this thread. This information is exactly what I am needing right now. Thank you JaneS! There's no place like MDC!


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Punchy Kaby* 
Anyone around that has been taking iodine? I'm wondering about a few things...

I've worked my way up to 5mg a day and I feel pretty good, sometimes I have energy but I find that I sleep like a rock, almost like I am drugged and wake up groggy. My daytime energy has been about the same since starting iodine (6 weeks ago). I have NO appetite (although I still eat and have cravings for food.) I am gaining weight slowly, and I don't need to gain any weight. Last time I tried taking iodine I went a bit hyperthyroid, so now I'm going the opposite way. I'm getting itchy now and then, it's noticeable but not uncomfortable, is this bromine detox?

yes itchiness can be bromine detox but the hyper sx are concerning... have you been tested for thyroid antibodies?


----------



## Punchy Kaby

I have done more reading(on the breast cancer site, thanks JaneS for the link!) about bromine detox and now looking back I think I had racing thoughts/inability to sleep because I was not getting enough magnesium, and b12, maybe some others. I'm taking the Bach flower 'Rescue Sleep' as well. I have also cut out grains and my 'racing heart' has gone away only to reappear if I eat grains. I am using the magnesium chloride on my skin and it has been more effective than oral mag or the Epsom salt baths.


----------



## michelleklu

I was just wondering if anyone experienced nose bleeds when taking (too much) iodine. Is it true that all thyroid patients should take iodine because all thyroid disorders are caused by iodine deficiency? I'm hyperthyroid and I have felt better when taking it.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *michelleklu* 
I was just wondering if anyone experienced nose bleeds when taking (too much) iodine. Is it true that all thyroid patients should take iodine because all thyroid disorders are caused by iodine deficiency? I'm hyperthyroid and I have felt better when taking it.

To my knowledge, it is not a wise idea for people with hyperT to take iodine. I believe that doctors recommend they avoid all sources of iodine, including seafood and iodized salt.


----------



## CliffRose

Subbing


----------



## ILoveMyBabyBird

Anyone know what is a good safe amount of iodine while pregnant? I am currently taking 550mcg, in the form of kelp. I have found some interesting articles regarding iodine while pregnant/breastfeeding, but everything i find says a pregnant woman should only have 200 mcg of iodine in supplement a day, which seems to be very little considering some of research of read. I am fairly certain that my months of fatigue prior to pregnancy resulted because of the diet i was following, (vegan, Eat to Live, no salt) I've also read that vitamin d is depleted with rapid weight loss so i am taking way more than the RDA of that as well, to keep my energy levels up. Most the links relate to pregnancy/breastfeeding, but thought i'd share.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...03739-0008.pdf

http://allonhealth.com/health-news/b...nd-thyroid.htm

http://lactinv.com/breastfeeding_qna...ur_milk_supply

http://www.jctonic.com/include/minerals/iodine.htm

http://www.shareguide.com/flouride.html


----------



## MomToEmerson

I asked the same thing when I got pregnant and the answer I got from several sources was 12.5 mg (1 Iodoral or equivalent of Lugols depending on which solution strength you are taking). I got warned away from the kelp etc sources because of the high mercury and bromide contamination levels.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
To my knowledge, it is not a wise idea for people with hyperT to take iodine. I believe that doctors recommend they avoid all sources of iodine, including seafood and iodized salt.

The iodine researchers (Abraham, Brownstein, et al) would disagree with this.


----------



## JaneS

ILoveMyBabyBird,

Do you have an excellent source of true retinol vitamin A to replace stores that were likely depleted while vegan?


----------



## Prettyasanangel

Bump.


----------



## JaneS

I should also update that I'm remarkably tolerating more iodine lately too.

Apparently it took a year of very low doses (although more than RDA not Iodoral level) to ramp up. I haven't increased much, just every day rather than every other day. Not in a position to be mowed down by detox fatigue at this point in my life.


----------



## Prettyasanangel

This thread is so informative and I absolutely love it. I am actually taking an iodine supplement called magnascent which was first created by the sleeping prophet Edgar Cayce. This iodine is known as nascent iodine which is supposed to be stronger than lugol's. I am gearing up for my last IVF cycle and I am trying to prepare my body. I feel 100% better since I started taking iodine. I also consume coconut oil by Nutiva and tropical traditions both brands are excellent. I cant express to you enough about how glad I am that I started supplementing with iodine. I hope and pray that because of iodine it will entitle me to experience the joys of motherhood.


----------



## Toolip

anyone on the west coast considering a large dose of iodine in the coming days?


----------



## joybird

Yes. I want to know how much to give my 2yo and 6yo tonight. The Brownstein blog says to start today at 13 mg for an adult. But I think the post was written before folks started admitting to real meltdown at three of the reactors.

I have tri-quench which is 25mg per drop. Dp and I took one drop each but I'm not sure what to give the kids. And I know they won't drink it in anything so can I just drop it on their tongues while they sleep?


----------



## Erinz

I just came looking for an iodine thread and will have to take some time today to read through this! We are on the coast in California, so I'm def looking at what type to get and dosing info. Looks like there is a lot of great info here.


----------



## joybird

My holistic MD gave us the go-ahead to dose now at 13mg for an adult, 1/2 that for a child, 1/2 that for a baby. It is safe but a pretty high dosage and will start boosting levels now. If things start looking worse, we'll up the dose accordingly. I'm using tri-quench, a liquid potassium iodide solution containing 25mg KI per drop. I'm cutting it down with water to get the correct dosage and hoping that I'm doing it right.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Is anyone relying on topical iodine?


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joybird*
> 
> My holistic MD gave us the go-ahead to dose now at 13mg for an adult, 1/2 that for a child, 1/2 that for a baby. It is safe but a pretty high dosage and will start boosting levels now. If things start looking worse, we'll up the dose accordingly. I'm using tri-quench, a liquid potassium iodide solution containing 25mg KI per drop. I'm cutting it down with water to get the correct dosage and hoping that I'm doing it right.


I think that is a dangerous idea, imnsho. That is a HUGE amount of iodine for an adult or child.

PLEASE see this thread for MANY natural alternatives, start on the last page: http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1302780/west-coast-iodine-fallout-information/60

Pat


----------



## joybird

13 mg is the average daily iodine intake for women of childbearing age in Japan. I am going off information from Brownstein but please tell me more because I am certainly not an expert on this at all!

I'm all for natural alternatives but in reality, no amount of kelp or any whole food is going to provide enough iodine to block thyroid uptake of radioactive iodine. I am certainly not going to take the prophylactic dose unless there is a true emergency. That dose is 130mg for an adult!


----------



## WuWei

Check the links I posted. There is a bunch of research about whole foods preventing radioactivity issues.

Start *HERE.*

Pat


----------



## joybird

I've read them. But at the beginning of THIS thread, the amounts I listed above seem to be pretty standard supplemental dosages. Brownstein himself has advocated this particular protocol for this situation. He is the most reputable source I could find online and all my health people are in agreement with him. What I'm asking is why you would consider these amounts dangerous?


----------



## WuWei

Because it is unnecessarily risky to supplement iodine'/iodide in isolation when MANY radioactivity-preventive food options are available (IF there were an actual radioactivity risk), which are less reactive for a significant portion of the mothering population who potentially have (unrecognized) autoimmune Hashimoto's thyroiditis.

http://thehealthyskeptic.org/iodine-for-hypothyroidism-like-gasoline-on-a-fire

http://www.westonaprice.org/book-reviews/thumbs-up/1962-why-do-i-still-have-thyroid-symptoms-by-datis-kharrazian.html

http://totalhealthcentervb.com/thyroid-treatment-success-secret-6.htm

http://drknews.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Still-Thyroid-Symptoms-Tests-Normal/dp/product-description/1600376703

http://thyroid.about.com/od/isthatso/f/iodine.htm

http://www.carbwire.com/2010/07/20/dr-datis-kharrazian-answers-the-question-why-do-i-still-have-thyroid-symptoms-when-my-lab-tests-are-normal

https://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=199803937016&topic=12012

http://next.thyroid.org/patients/notes/july06/06_07_35.html

http://www.drmanlove.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=335

http://drknews.com/some-studies-on-iodine-and-autoimmune-thyroid-disease/

I've read that hypothyroid incidence ranges from 10-30% of the American population, often unrecognized; most affected are women; and 70-80% of women who are hypothyroid have autoimmune Hashimoto's, especially common after pregnancies.

Trust your own judgment. It is your body.

Pat


----------



## joybird

Interesting. Thank you. I very much doubt that I fall into that category after researching it a bit. I would, however, be concerned about what the unknown effects might be on the kids. I will read more because I haven't found what dosages are involved. I *think* that thyroid patients are taking a lot more iodine than I'm talking about here...


----------



## WuWei

Also, read through this (whole) thread. Many moms here have had problems with low dosing iodine even.

Pat


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## tanyalynn

But those of us who have had improvement in symptoms after relatively high dose iodine intakes aren't posting as much. Even at my worst, health-wise, I just started Iodoral (1/day) without knowing it could cause problems, and in me it didn't, I saw only good things. And stopping for a while, when I ran out, I noticed a return of some of my symptoms, even now when my health is overall much better.


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## Panserbjorne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tanyalynn*
> 
> But those of us who have had improvement in symptoms after relatively high dose iodine intakes aren't posting as much. Even at my worst, health-wise, I just started Iodoral (1/day) without knowing it could cause problems, and in me it didn't, I saw only good things. And stopping for a while, when I ran out, I noticed a return of some of my symptoms, even now when my health is overall much better.


this. I started at 50mg a day (under the supervision of a physician) and continued for quite some time with no ill effects whatsoever. My kids were on 12.5 mg a day and had none either.


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## bluets

we were just discussing this today elsewhere offline. one needs both iodide and iodine. if relying on a supplement, make sure it has both forms (e.g., Iodoral has both). food will most likely have both but might not have enough for some individuals' needs.


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## Panserbjorne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bluets*
> 
> we were just discussing this today elsewhere offline. one needs both iodide and iodine. if relying on a supplement, make sure it has both forms (e.g., Iodoral has both). food will most likely have both but might not have enough for some individuals' needs.


this. I'll be more clear that I was on iodoral for the duration.


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## joybird

At what percentages, roughly? I have tri-quench, which says 19mg iodine (from 25mg potassium iodide). I have to cut it because this is per drop so I'd also like to know which number to use when doing the math. I've been using the 25.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bluets*
> 
> we were just discussing this today elsewhere offline. one needs both iodide and iodine. if relying on a supplement, make sure it has both forms (e.g., Iodoral has both). food will most likely have both but might not have enough for some individuals' needs.


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## quelindo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tanyalynn*
> 
> But those of us who have had improvement in symptoms after relatively high dose iodine intakes aren't posting as much. Even at my worst, health-wise, I just started Iodoral (1/day) without knowing it could cause problems, and in me it didn't, I saw only good things. And stopping for a while, when I ran out, I noticed a return of some of my symptoms, even now when my health is overall much better.


Same with me. I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, but not Hashi's, FWIW.


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## tanyalynn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joybird*
> 
> At what percentages, roughly? I have tri-quench, which says 19mg iodine (from 25mg potassium iodide). I have to cut it because this is per drop so I'd also like to know which number to use when doing the math. I've been using the 25.


I think Iodoral is between 50%/50% and 33%/67% but I don't remember which is higher. It'll be online if you need to know (and I don't know how specific the ratio is supposed to be, or if it's just a range).


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## BeingMe

My doctor did a iodine test and I came out pretty low. She put me on iodoral, about half a pill daily, and it has helped my fibrocystic breast as well as a few other issues. I recently ran out of the iodoral and bought some iosol from iherb that is ammonium iodide. Then I read that I want the iodoral and now can't get it.

Should I take the ammoinum iodide? And will it also help with the radioactive rain and air in my area right now?


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## Kristin0105

New to this thread but just wanted to say Iodoral is the same as lugols solution so if you can't get the Iodoral right now you can use Lugols


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## joybird

Ok so, being on the west coast and concerned about radioactivity arriving here from Japan, I began giving everyone a maintenance dose of iodine, which I knew very little about before all this. I've been taking 13mg, 6yo dd/6mg and 2yo dd/3mg per day.

I'm doing fine, as is 2yo. But my 6yo, who has has eczema on and off has got a really bad rash behind her ears and along the sides of her neck/face. It is bumpy, almost pimply and her ears are all scaly and red. How do I know if this is bromine detox or if she is allergic/sensitive? I'm taking her to see my NAET practitioner but can't get in until next week. My instinct tells me it is detox but I don't want to take any chances either.


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## deditus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joybird*
> I'm doing fine, as is 2yo. But my 6yo, who has has eczema on and off has got a really bad rash behind her ears and along the sides of her neck/face. It is bumpy, almost pimply and her ears are all scaly and red. How do I know if this is bromine detox or if she is allergic/sensitive? I'm taking her to see my NAET practitioner but can't get in until next week. My instinct tells me it is detox but I don't want to take any chances either.


How is she with gluten? Iodine can cause a flare up of dermatitis herpetiformis, a skin manifestation of celiac disease.


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## joybird

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deditus*
> 
> How is she with gluten? Iodine can cause a flare up of dermatitis herpetiformis, a skin manifestation of celiac disease.


She's gluten intolerant for sure. She hasn't eaten any for over three years. I read about the connection with iodine to DH but the rash doesn't look like it to me. Maybe it manifests differently in some people but the photos I've seen of DH look pretty specific. I'm hesitant to stop the iodine right now because I live in WA and they just found radiation in our milk here. We don't drink milk but we do eat goat yogurt and cheese and it seems like the problem in Japan is getting worse by the day so I can only presume that our exposure here will get worse as well. I've started giving her lots of vit c and milk thistle and other supplements and treatments to help detoxify. If it doesn't start getting better soon I guess I'll have to stop the iodine and go from there. Its been raining here for a week and all I can think is how the radioactive trash is all being dumped on WA right now. Its pretty depressing.


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## Avriel86

Joybird, I also have tri-quench and have been unsure of how to properly "cut" the liquid drops for my kids. Do you have a reputable source that gave you the info?? Maybe it's too late for us to start it now...but better late than never I'm kind of thinking? I don't know... I'm not sure who to trust with the radiation information (I'm also in Washington). I have been looking at the EPA readouts in my area and while they have been basically the same before and after the quake, it doesnt make sense as to why all of a sudden they are finding radiation in milk. I have considered the fact that in Spokane there is a high occurrence of radon in the soil so that may have been having an impact all along but its never been looked at/reported? It's so confusing.


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## joybird

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avriel86*
> 
> Joybird, I also have tri-quench and have been unsure of how to properly "cut" the liquid drops for my kids. Do you have a reputable source that gave you the info?? Maybe it's too late for us to start it now...but better late than never I'm kind of thinking? I don't know... I'm not sure who to trust with the radiation information (I'm also in Washington). I have been looking at the EPA readouts in my area and while they have been basically the same before and after the quake, it doesnt make sense as to why all of a sudden they are finding radiation in milk. I have considered the fact that in Spokane there is a high occurrence of radon in the soil so that may have been having an impact all along but its never been looked at/reported? It's so confusing.


I am adding 24 drops of water for each drop of tri-quench and then using each drop of that mixture as 1mg (since 1 drop of tri-quench has 25mg). So I give little dd 3 drops, big dd 6 drops, adults 13 drops. This was my idea and I was feeling like it was probably not calibrated very accurately because my dropper is likely a different size dropper than the tri-quench bottle. So I went to my compounding pharmacy and the woman there did the math for me a bit differently using standard household measurements like this:

2 drop tri-quench into 2 cups water. From that use

1 oz for baby (providing 3mg iodine)

2 oz for older dd (providing 6mg iodine)

4 oz for each adult (providing 13mg iodine)

Both she and my doctor said that the dropper method is fine as well though, which I've still been using because I don't have a 1oz measurement and by giving drops I can make sure that they're getting it all. I am still unsure about the numbers after all that though, because the bottle says 19mg iodine from 25mg potassium iodide. I used the larger number to divide by because these these are fairly high dosages to begin with and we are eating lots of kelp/seaweed so I figure I'd rather give them a bit too little than a bit too much.

The information we are being given is very confusing. The numbers don't seem to change because they are measuring all radiation (rays and particles). The particular isotope iodine-131 is not usually present at all though. And they keep upping their opinions about what we will expect and even how much is safe. First they said we would not see any change in levels, then they say we will see a tiny increase that is barely measurable, then they say okay it is in the food supply, but not enough to harm anyone. We all know that there is no 'safe' level of exposure to radiation, this is not a debated issue and it is taken as fact in science and medicine. The levels they set are a calculated risk, that's all. And when you hear a comparison between ingested/inhaled particles and 'background' radiation or x-rays, be suspicious. They are ignoring the fact that when we consume particles, they lodge in our bodies and become 'internal emitters', giving off radiation to all the nearby cells for as long as they are in the body. When you get an x-ray or fly in an airplane, the radiation you are exposed to stops. There is a whole slew of scientific and medical literature describing this phenomenon and people are being misled about the actual dangers of constant low-level radiation, which is what happens with internal emitters. There is an excellent segment on Democracy Now from this week that explains it better.

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/3/30/prescription_for_survival_a_debate_on

About the milk, radiation contamination (like most toxins) multiplies x1000 each time it is moved up a notch in the food chain. That's why its so much higher in the milk than in grass that the cows ate. So, the kids living near Chernobyl were poisoned by milk on a way higher scale than by vegetables or fruit. Which leads me to question, exactly how contaminated is my own milk?? I eat food grown from the same land that the cows eat from....


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## JaneS

Current info on Japan and iodine recs on Dr. Brownstein's blog:

http://drdavidbrownstein.blogspot.com/

While I do think the radiation danger is minimal, there are so many other daily toxins we are exposed to in our food, drink and environment that displace iodine in the body: fluoride, chlorine, bromide, perchlorate, etc.


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## joybird

Just wanted to update to say that dd was actually not having a negative reaction to the iodine. She had scarlet fever...


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## newmum35

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JaneS*
> 
> Current info on Japan and iodine recs on Dr. Brownstein's blog:
> 
> http://drdavidbrownstein.blogspot.com/
> 
> While I do think the radiation danger is *minimal*, there are so many other daily toxins we are exposed to in our food, drink and environment that displace iodine in the body: fluoride, chlorine, bromide, perchlorate, etc.


Not sure how true this is. (bolding mine) Seems thats what they want us to believe, but FRANCE is telling its citizens to avoid milk and cheese. Fallout is up to 10 times higher on west coast of US than in France! The fallout is circling around the northern hemisphere with no end in sight. I suppose it is "minimal" compared to those living close to Fukushima

Here are some articles (and the last includes a video) which may be of interest:

http://www.euractiv.com/en/health/radiation-risks-fukushima-longer-negligible-news-503947
http://www.naturalnews.com/032048_radiation_milk.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/032050_radioactive_food_nuclear_radiation.html

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/04/07/radioactive-rainwater-saint-louis-missouri-geiger-counter-nuts-14994/


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## Lady Lilya

bluets, I have been told by a chemist that iodine is toxic, and we should stick to iodide. This was in reference to me mentioning that I have taken Iodoral, and reading off the label to the person. He assured me again and again, and the other people present, that it was horribly dangerous, and used some techno-babble to justify that. The conclusion of the interaction was "don't listen to Leigh." If you have any info that I can use to get some face back, I would love to be able to show it.


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## bluets

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Lilya*
> 
> bluets, I have been told by a chemist that iodine is toxic, and we should stick to iodide. This was in reference to me mentioning that I have taken Iodoral, and reading off the label to the person. He assured me again and again, and the other people present, that it was horribly dangerous, and used some techno-babble to justify that. The conclusion of the interaction was "don't listen to Leigh." If you have any info that I can use to get some face back, I would love to be able to show it.


some forms of iodine are likely to be toxic. molecular iodine is not likely to be one of them - it certainly would not be included in iodoral if it were toxic. unfortunately, pubmed is littered with "iodine" studies that don't specify the kind of iodine they've used (though my guess would be potassium iodide or just iodized table salt).

http://www.iodine4health.com/ortho/ortho.htm

http://www.lewrockwell.com/******/miller20.html

Iodine Monograph

http://www.townsendletter.com/Oct2005/gabyrebuttal1005.htm


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## flicka

Hi. I took Magnascent iodine about 3+ weeks ago. I only took it for 4 days, 1 drop each day. I proceeded to get terrible side effects, the most notable a non-stop racing heart (anxiety attacks) that was like it was in my throat, hyperness, insomnia, difficulty swallowing (like a lump in my throat) and tightness in my upper chest. I went to my homeopath and he said I had overdosed and he gave me some homeopathic remedies to balance out my thyroid. Today a lot

of my symptoms have lessened, however, I still have a racing heart and I haven't been able to sleep at all for weeks. Is it is possible that I still have the toxins in my body? Or have I just gotten anxiety now? The only other thing I did was a liver and kidney cleanse. I've been reading about the salt water flushes and I did a couple yesterday, but I'm not better. Any advice would be appreciated.

Regards, Candace


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