# Healing the Gut Tribe ~ March



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

CHEAT SHEET

Please see most current version stickied at the top of this forum:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?p=4893042


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Subbing. Happy March!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cmadb12*
If this sounds familiar to anyone, I would greatly appreciate ANY information you may have!!! My 4 year old son has been suffering from what two different drs. have only generally described as "constipation" and a "behaviorial" issue related to his constipation. He has been seen by his own ped. and his new allergist - so far. Neither of which I am happy with b/c I feel dismissed every time we have to discuss this recurring problem.

My son has been crossing his legs when he feels the urge to poop for over 2 years (pardon the medical terms - we're all moms here, right?) and holds in - or tries to at least- his poop. He cries, sometimes screams, when he does this. My husband and I have referred to it as the "poopie dance", until something just didn't feel right, after many months have passed. He has been constipated before, of course, as I'm sure many kids have, and he did once tear his rectum and get a strep infection after. this was when he was 18 months+ - a long time ago.

My son has a major peanut allergy along with many severe enviro. allergies, but according to his new allergist, not significant other food allergies. He was tested recently for milk and soy to which he reacted, but not severely according to his dr. He has eczema that come and go and has always battled it, even as an infant. His dr. says that he cannot def. say that he is "allergic" to milk b/c his skin reacts to even the control (water) slightly. But his arms just light up when they test him for everything, pretty much.

Most recently he's been on Florstor Kids (SOOO expensive!), Benefiber powder and his allergist just told me to put him on Lactulose liquid (sp?), even AFTER I told him that my son already has major stomach pain, gas and cramps (all side effects of Lactulose) and after we discussed his possible allergy or sensitivity to milk?!? My son rarely eats a "real" meal, if at all, cries at the table over his food after he tells me he's very hungry, but just can't eat it b/c his belly hurts. My son is thin and underwight, he east NOTHING. I've stopped letting him drink cow's milk (or soy for that matter) myself, but don't know whether to cut out ALL dairy, yogurt...the allergist says we'll discuss it at his next appt....right. Can't wait.

Also I guess something imp. to note - he ALWAYS has some form of poop in his diaper. Yes, I said diaper b/c he CAN go pee on the potty and wants to use the potty, but cannot be w/o a diaper at anytime b/c there is always poop literally hanging out of his bum. There is always poop, whether it's formed, which is the case most of the time, or a loose kind of liquid in his diaper. He runs into another room to cross his legs ALL day, even in public and shouts and cries if you even look at him. He strains so hard.

I cannot tell you how frustrated we are for him. We are afraid that he will still be in a diaper when he enters school and will be picked on-or worse. As I mentioned before, I am only being dismissed by the drs. and I can only look to you all for some informed advice.

By the way, we did try craniosacral therapy once, can't really comment on what that did or didn't do, but that was a while ago. Should I try acupuncture? Diet changes? Doctor changes?







Does this sound at all like it's merely behavioral on his part? If you can, please help - I am at my wit's end and sad everyday for him.

Many thanks to you all for your precious time reading this message!!!









Oh mama, so glad you are here! My heart just aches reading your message. We will try to help any way we possibly can.

I don't know exactly what this is (sounds like encopresis) but it's NOT behavioral. And constipation always has a biological cause. His behaviors are only a result of the feelings from his body, not the other way around. I have noticed many many behavioral issues come and go depending on the state of my DS's gut.

I had to look up Florastor Kids: http://www.florastor.com/article.asp?id=2559

Sacch. boulardii is supposed to be good for yeast as well as intestinal bacteria. However, I disagree with them that the lactose in it is small. If one has intestinal flora issues, the lactose can indeed set off some gas, bloating and constipation. Just because Sacc. boulardii can make lactase, the enzyme that digests lactose, doesn't mean it's doing that in a damaged gut. Kirkman makes a Sacc. boulardii without fillers.

Lactulose is a disaccharide sugar that is very hard to digest, so it's no surprise that's a problem too.

Now what to do.... well in my experience, mainstream doctors know little to nothing about healing. There has to be a reason for the constipation, ykwim? And fixing the cause would lead to healing. But they don't seem to do that. Does your DS have a diagnosis?

Now it seems like they do think he has some sort of instestinal flora issue? Have they told you more about why this is?

Read about the diet that a lot of us are on to change intestinal flora, read these links in order and tell me what you think:

It All Began with A Child:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...th_a_child.htm

SCD Overview:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i.../beginners.htm

Science Behind the Diet:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i..._the_diet2.htm

Yogurt for Probiotics:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...importance.htm
(I use goat's milk for DS as the casein molecules are smaller and easier to digest)

SCD and Allergies:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i.../allergies.htm

Karen DeFelice's book on Enzymes talks about battling encopresis with her son: www.enzymestuff.com

Her books (they are both the same) on using digestive enzymes for gut health are a must read for understanding leaky gut, digestive problems, and food allergies.... and the behavioral issues that come with them.








Stay stong mama. I think the similar things about my DS too. It's a horrible feeling when you love them so much and are trying everything in your power to help and nothing seems to be working!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Update on DS:*

I did a stupid thing... remember how I said I wanted to treat him with coffea cruda for sleeping issues? Well I decided to give the (sugar) homeopathic tablets with enzymes.... BAD CHOICE MAMA! We have anger, yelling and aggression up the yin yang. This is also on the heels of some organic apple cider (which is legal for goodness sakes) which apparently set him off too.









And I'm not sure he is tolerating the uber expensive X Factor Butter Oil either.

Sigh. I don't even know why you listen to me when I can be such a dolt IRL!

The good thing is that he's finally tolerating (at least before all this) Zyme Prime enzymes at every meal and snack. And No Fenol a couple times/day. I had taken him off all enzymes and worked back up VERY slowly to using the gentler V-Gest with even less proteases. Then the Zyme Prime which has more than V-Gest.

When everything calms down, I'm going to start the Pepitzyde high proteases again. It's the only thing that is going to make a difference in him I feel. But I'm literally going to have to start with 2 little grains at first b/c the last time was NOT pretty. He got so hyper.

Oh more good news I guess... DS can swallow capsules now and is so proud of himself







Of course now that I have the bulk powder enzymes.







Will look around for some smaller than 00 gelatin capsules that the hfs carried.

OH... and just tonight a Mass. mama posted an MD/Homeopath who is on my insurance!!!! Hey I guess things are looking up after all...







Now should get to bed to have a few hours of sleep before I'm summoned by Mr. Fidget.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Oh for goodness sakes, I don't know how I missed several posts in last month but I did... just a reminder to myself to go back to 2/27.

Firefaery, I think the intuit thing is AWESOME. A close friend of mine works with one, I need to check her out!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

moving post up one level...


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jennifer, is your son still nursing substantially for his nutrients? This thread is really not about elimination diets, although there are some here who have done them. From what I understand, if he is still nursing at his age, he's mostly getting his nutrition from bm anyway. You and he would both have to go on elimination diets. As far as whether you can do that with daycare, I have no idea. You might try posting up one level, in Health and Healing in general.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

:


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

I read "Breaking the viscious cycle" yesterday, and the author suggests taking a Vitamin B supplement. She gives guidelines/suggestions for what they should and shouldn't contain, but is there anything else I need to know about the B vitamins? I'm really leary since I know almost zilch about supplements









Also, if raw milk is illegal (I think it is in Canada anyway), how on earth do you get it? I have a friend who has a source for pastured cows milk (i.e. pastured in the warmer months, not sure what they get the rest of the year). She said that it will take a while for her source to trust me enough to sell raw milk to me. I don't know how I'm going to "get to know her" since her only other product seems to be beef, and we don't eat that. This source also knows someone who has organic pastured goats, and if I can establish a relationship soon enough, I might to able to buy some of that this spring when the kids are born.

I'm so out of touch with all these issue. Someone please enlighten me. TIA


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

subbing


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

I'm subbing too because I like to keep up with how you mamas and kiddos are doing!

Not to mention I learn lots of things too!


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Subbing

We are on day two-still feel in the dark-but thank all of you for being willing to share your stories and knowledge!


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

*Siana*- don't know if it will help, but i'm in Canada too, and yeah, you just have to establish a relationship with someone who will sell you raw cow's milk right off the farm. Cows can be kept outside all winter, as long as they have some shelter from the wind and snow (even a well-treed pasture). They can be fed green feed all winter (alfalfa, grass mixes, silage, etc.) If you are having trouble building trust with someone, you might suggest paying them a fee upfront so that you are a *part-owner* of the cow, and the cost of the milk can be translated as a fee you are paying them to milk *your* cow for you, kwim?

*Cmadb12*- I am so sorry to hear about your little guy's suffering.







I just couldn't help but draw parallels between what you are saying and what Jordan Rubin's story is. He is the author of The Maker's Diet. I'm not trying to diagnose your son, but Jordan developed severe crohns-colitis (a bowel disorder) and talks about how he spent 2 years runnning to the bathroom 20 times a day, being in constant pain, feeling like he had food poisoning that never went away. You might want to check out his book. He is Messianic-Jewish and the diet that cured him was a bible-based traditional foods diet along with supplements to make up for what he claims is lost in our depleted soil. Here's a link for a little more info.
http://www.mercola.com/article/prima...se_success.htm
I really hope you find the help you need here. The mamas on this thread can provide you with much better info than any doctor will. It's sad that most of us have had to take healing our families into our own hands, and can't rely on any help from the medical establishment, which only offers band-aid solutions that tend to make things worse in the long run.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

hi mamas
I feel like I'm not much help here but I'm mining you guys for all the info I can get. Thanks for letting me.

We are on day 10 and I beleive that my yeast rash is finally going away. I'm kinda glad I wasn't pg and had af since I know that is an avenue for flushing out toxins. Poor dd has a horribly scabby yeast spot on the front of her vulva. And lots of little satalite spots all over her rear/hips. I hope this is the begining of the end for her too.

I'm feeling a little less like I'm losing my mind with this diet and getting more of a ryhthm to it. It will be a while before I feel less overwhelmed though. I'm so glad my chiro has read the book and is well versed in following it and can help me with it.

I've got so much pulling at my time right now. I have dropped everything to think about our diet and now I need to start picking some stuff back up or I'll be in big trouble, but it is like having a n/b. I'm not ready yet, but I can't expect others who are counting on me to really understand.

The worst thing about this is that die off is happening at the same time as two year molars and my dd was super high needs w/o either of those things. I don't have any family and most of my friends work or have little ones too so they aren't much help either. I do have a mothers helper who comes for 2-3 hours every friday afternoon that dd adores and that really does help but I wish I could find one for every day of the week (not that I could afford it but you kwim).

Ok, I gotta go eat lunch and get some dishes done while dd is napping. I can't beleive how many dishes I go through in a day making all our own food!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Patty,

Wow I notice such a difference in this post compared to previous ones! You have hope!









I'm very glad to hear things are on the upswing, just hang in there. It will get easier when the cooking becomes second nature. Once you get standard recipes under your belt, you can knock them off in less time.

We have lots of dishes too. Some days (like today) I just let them pile up and then madly do them right before DH gets home


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Another update:*

Well now DS is back to solid poops, less hyperactivity and more sleeping today. We have an appt. with the MD/homeopath in two weeks so I just have to hang on until then. I started writing out all of DS's quirks and behaviors and it's becoming quite a long list. I actually think it was a good thing we just went thru a recent setback....since I was able to remember so much about his behavior, even more than I already written down from before, and correlate it with his gut.

This doc is going to be way overwhelmed with pages of info when we walk in there. I'll know she is the right one for us if she likes it!!

I've finished Amy Lansky's book on homeopathy, it's really really good.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
moving post up one level...

Jennifer,

I posted last month a very large post on my current view of elimination diets. For us they helped for a time, but never fixed the problem. I think you have to go beyond "there is a certain food or foods that is causing this" and look to the entire immune and digestive system. Why is it that they cannot handle certain foods? And we definately discuss that here.









The concept of a "food free" diet is very well discussed in Karen DeFelice's books: www.enzymestuff.com

Her explanation of leaky gut will make more sense why a bf'ing babe can react to mom's milk... it is not supposed to be that way. It means you are not digesting your food properly and whole food proteins are getting into your bloodstream. Thus just eliminating one or several foods won't fix that problem because if the problem continues, there will just be new foods to react to.


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

subbing


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Quote:

I've finished Amy Lansky's book on homeopathy, it's really really good.
JaneS, what's the title of the book? I'm looking for good homeopathy books right now. tia.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Jane, let me know how your appointment goes. I don't think she'll be thrown off at all. My DhT sends a packet out that is 14 pages long, tiny print, both sides. If that wasn't enough you also have to write an essay. I'm sure she'll be thrilled to have someone as observant as you are. You'll have to let me know what his constitutional is as well. It's really an addiction with me! Glad you liked the book. Homeopathy really is wonderful. We have had such good experiences and Selkie's new remedy has completely shifted her. I started a new one today and my fingers are crossed. I'm hoping I don't prove it, because that would about destroy me right now. Selkie proved her first one, so I think the odds are on my side







It's pretty rare.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Jane, Just wanted to send you a







too. You're always the one here lifting the rest of our spirits. Hope I could lift yours for a change!


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

Hi everyone. Just wanted to introduce myself. I know firefaery and JaneS from the nourishing traditions threads and thought I might come on over to see where exactly I need to get started. All three of my kids (6, 2.5 and 4 months) have asthma and eczema. my 2 dds and I have *terrible* yeast problems right now, that I have gone on the makers diet to try and improve. My 2 dds are also terribly gassy, to the point that they wake up at night and cry or complain about throughout the day. DD1 is almost 3 and has really just started eating grains, but she really doesnt eat that much (maybe 2-3 servings daily). She is still bfing and has peanut and dairy allergies. My ds eats a lot of grains each day (some days he wont eat anything but grains) and tends to have impulse control problems (dont know if its diet related or not)

Anyway, where would be the best place for me to start? (very new to this, so I really need someone to hold my hand) Its hard after society pushing how healthy grains are to suddenly stop thinking that way. How long after changing our diets will I be able to see if things are changing for the better?

thanks for any help that you can give me.


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Hey Jane, just a word of thanks again for your wisdom and links last month.

I have a question-are some of you combining NT and SCD? If so, how? I have both books, I am just so confused!!!

Thanks again,


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Sorry-I thought of another couple of questions-

Source for almonds-what type-raw/salted, etc.?
Source for DCCC?

Thanks!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
JaneS, what's the title of the book? I'm looking for good homeopathy books right now. tia.

I just finished this one:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078...lance&n=283155

And I liked it quite a bit.

Firefaery, I belive my constitutional is Nat Mur


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Mom2zsel: for me it means that all meats, eggs and dairy (though we don't do dairy) is from pastured organic animals. Dairy would be raw (raw cheese, raw yogurt) Nuts and beans are soaked and sprouted. Fish is wild caught-never farmed. Clearly there arent any grains allowed. That's pretty much it for us. Doesn't really require any extra effort and the pay off is worth it. Just makes food cleaner and easier to digest.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Memory maker-welcome. I think you'll find some good answers here. You could start by getting the book from the library, they generally have it. It's called, "Breaking the Vicious Cycle" by Elaine Gottschall. It's a very easy read. I also love "Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Conditions" by Karen DeFelice. She gives the best descriptions for what is happening in a damaged gut. There are websites for both... www.breakingtheviciouscycle.com and www.enzymestuff.com They would be a good place to get an overview of what it is that you are trying to accomplish. The impulse control is very possible a symptom-not necessarily of diet, but of damage. And FYI-kids generally do crave things (as do adults) that they are allergic to. It actually gives them a high. It creates a histamine response the same as drugs do. There will be withdrawal, but it's necessary for healing. We've all been there.
Jane is famous round these parts for healing eczema, and I can absolutely say that we have cleared up skin problems, gassiness/pain/crankiness (oh, the crankiness!) and behavioral issues. Both my kids were on the autism spectrum and aren't any longer-dd officially and ds unofficially.
Jordan Rubin talks about this program. He didn't have success, but I don't know if that was because he didn't stick to stage 1 long enough, or if combining NT and SCD would have made the difference for a gut as damaged as his.
Anyway, feel free to ask questions!


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

Great! they had both books at the library. I will make sure and pick them up tomorrow. Im glad I know where to start now. thanks!


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

I'm x-posting this in the dentistry area too..

I have some major dental problems going on. I'm going to have to have some serious work done(removal of 1 and probably more amalgam fillings/caps-possibly even removal of teeth). I'm also breastfeeding my dd who's 1 year, and needs some serious gut healing. I checked with the mercury-free dentist that I'm going to use, and he won't work on me while I'm breastfeeding, which is understandable. But...if I wean my dd, I'm afraid we're going to get some worse problems with her gut and body. (When I feed her most anything...we find it in her diaper virtually unchanged. Seriously.) I'm at a loss.
It's kinda a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I don't want her to get any mercury through me, but if I don't bf her, I'm afraid she'll get no nutrition at all...
Is there anything I can take while having the work done to help bind to the mercury and flush it out? Or maybe just not bf for a small time period, and pump and dump for a bit?
Can anyone suggest anything?
HELP!


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Quote:

mom2zsel-
Source for almonds-what type-raw/salted, etc.?
Source for DCCC?
I get both of those from a coop-Ozark Mountain? I'm not home right now, but when I get there, I'll post the name for sure. It's a natural coop. Wonderful! The almonds need to be blanched, if I remember correctly. I get the meal already ground and have been having good luck with it.


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Thanks firefaery-that just totally simplifies it! That is not too far from where I am-just need to help my kiddos transition from lots of baked goods-all homemade, all organic, but alas, wheat









Cool zanelee-I'll look that up as well!

Off to shop!


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

mom2zsel-
It's the Ozark Cooperative Warehouse. Their website is:http://www.ozarkcoop.com

They are all over the US, so hopefully you can find them.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

What am I looking for before we can start some raw fruit/veggies??? I'm confused on this point and not wanting to rush ahead but I'm also dying for something crunchy!!! DD and I still have a yeast rash but it is slowly getting better (although today I saw those curds on her vulva that tell me there is internal yeast too for her). I'm still having some constipation but not as bad. DH is now having constipation. He was really tired but now that is better.

I'm just confused and unsure how to figure this one out.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Am I crazy to want the whole family on SCD?
My DP thinks I'm a nutter for "buying" in to SCD it for myself and Galen. One of these days I'm going to get (read 'force') him to read the book.







I've been gradually getting us all used to this new way of eating, rather than the immediate change that is recommended. I'm hesitant if this is a good approach as far as determining changes in symptoms, but this seems easiest for us. Any thoughts?

Anyway, I want my DS and DD on the diet since I feel both would benefit from it. It would kill my DD if Daddy ate something different for the meals when he's here. Perhaps my DP can have non-SCD meals at work which will probably be the best compromise.

As for symptoms, I've had diarrhea for a good month now (except today) along with bloating and often excessive flatulence. The kids both have rather hard stools (except when we had the stomach flu last weekend). My LO -- who is still mostly breastfed -- can go up to 4 days without a BM. The last couple of days, he's popped once a day, and both times were hard and difficult for him to pass. My DD on the other hand has had compacted poop every day (up to twice a day) for a month or more now.

Both kids have developed eczema in the last 2 months







My DD's is rather like dry skin, not really obvious at all until you feel her legs. My DS however has deveoped two eczema sites on both legs, in exactly the same positions where he had them when he was an infant. I had been talking about my gut feeling that something was still not quite right with Galen, and now we have the proof ):


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## AnnaLaughs (Jul 10, 2003)

Hello, I'm new to this area but have been doing quite a bit of research on healing the gut. DD had VERY severe eczema that cleared after we eliminated soy..she is also reactive to a few other things. The concept that I could have a leaky gut that contributed to this is interesting. She was ex. BF until about 10 months and still nurses about once a day at 3.
My question is this: What probiotic do you recommend for me? DD takes Baby Jarrow. Also, what enzymes for both of us? I am sorry if these are simplistic questions.....the research is a little overwhelming.
Also, how can we tell...here at home....if it's a yeast problem or bacteria problem? Different sites have little "quizes" that have me thinking it's both. Could it be both or one in me and a differnt in DD?
Thanks!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
JaneS, what's the title of the book? I'm looking for good homeopathy books right now. tia.

"The Impossible Cure" about curing her son of autism, but also goes into detail about history of homeopathy and other personal stories are included too.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...230261-8891810

I liked it b/c it was a quick easy read. And gave me a clear view of the kind of information I should write down re: DS's traits that may really help to pinpoint a remedy for him more easily. And was very uplifting, just what I needed.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Jane, let me know how your appointment goes. I don't think she'll be thrown off at all. My DhT sends a packet out that is 14 pages long, tiny print, both sides. If that wasn't enough you also have to write an essay. I'm sure she'll be thrilled to have someone as observant as you are. You'll have to let me know what his constitutional is as well. It's really an addiction with me! Glad you liked the book. Homeopathy really is wonderful. We have had such good experiences and Selkie's new remedy has completely shifted her. I started a new one today and my fingers are crossed. I'm hoping I don't prove it, because that would about destroy me right now. Selkie proved her first one, so I think the odds are on my side







It's pretty rare.

Of course I will report back, don't I always









Crossing my fingers and toes for you


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Jane, Just wanted to send you a







too. You're always the one here lifting the rest of our spirits. Hope I could lift yours for a change!









How sweet... thank you so much!









I owe MDC a huge debt. If it were not for what I've learned here, our lives would have been very different (in a very scary way.) I really am very grateful. And all of you help me too, by keeping me honest in my commitments and by giving me the determination to continue learning.

I feel so good right now.









Several things have just neatly come into place this week I just can't believe it! I hope all the blood, sweat and tears will now pay off b/c there's been too much of that.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *memory maker*
Hi everyone. Just wanted to introduce myself. I know firefaery and JaneS from the nourishing traditions threads and thought I might come on over to see where exactly I need to get started. All three of my kids (6, 2.5 and 4 months) have asthma and eczema. my 2 dds and I have *terrible* yeast problems right now, that I have gone on the makers diet to try and improve. My 2 dds are also terribly gassy, to the point that they wake up at night and cry or complain about throughout the day. DD1 is almost 3 and has really just started eating grains, but she really doesnt eat that much (maybe 2-3 servings daily). She is still bfing and has peanut and dairy allergies. My ds eats a lot of grains each day (some days he wont eat anything but grains) and tends to have impulse control problems (dont know if its diet related or not)

Anyway, where would be the best place for me to start? (very new to this, so I really need someone to hold my hand) Its hard after society pushing how healthy grains are to suddenly stop thinking that way. How long after changing our diets will I be able to see if things are changing for the better?

thanks for any help that you can give me.









Carey,

Yup, y'all need to be here for sure! Gas means you cannot fully digest your food and it's fermenting in the gut. And the not fully digested food is feeding yeast/bad bacteria. Which continues the damage.

The eczema/asthma issues are manifestations of an immune system that cannot handle the load. And the peanut/dairy allergies as well. There is a link above in my second post this month that speaks to allergies in a different way. The gut is damaged and that is why these symptoms are happening, not these particular foods or allergens are damaging the body.

Grains can be very healthy ... whole and soaked to remove phytates of course.







but only if you can digest them. I cringe everytime I read how schools are adopting more whole grains etc. etc. because they are not prepared properly by soaking and I fear it will lead to even more cases of gut problems.

It's funny b/c the Maker's Diet in the beginning is very much like the SCD. But he does add enzymes, which I also think is important for serious cases of gut trouble. And HSO's, which I am very leery about b/c the knowledge of how they work and whether we should be eating them is just not convinced me. I'd rather stick with a food I know has been proven throughout history: yogurt.

I had a lot of gut problems, thrush while nursing, gas, and bloating and I noticed a HUGE difference the first week on SCD. It was like my stomach just deflated and I lost 5 llbs b/c it was no longer bloated.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2zsel*
Hey Jane, just a word of thanks again for your wisdom and links last month.

I have a question-are some of you combining NT and SCD? If so, how? I have both books, I am just so confused!!!

Thanks again,









You are most welcome









I try to soak all nuts and make my own flours and nut butter in food processor. DS gets exclusively soaked nuts, I cheat with purchased almond flour for myself sometimes (and make sure I take enzymes with it).

Other NT principles that fit very well into SCD:

Bone broths.
Cod Liver Oil.
Raw grass fed Milk/cheese/butter.
Pastured meats and eggs.
I'm supposed to be eating liver but stuck on that for now, working on it!
Fermented veggies like homemade pickles, salsa, roasted red peppers, ginger carrots, using all SCD ingredients (use whey from yogurt as starter).


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

P.S. for the record...

SCD says not to soak nuts b/c "it will encourage growth of mold". However, NT instructions are to soak nuts in a saltwater solution which is bacteriostatic... mold will not grow. And then they are dried out in the oven.

And given that SCD requires the soaking of beans and lentils, it makes no sense to me why that wouldn't encourage mold too!?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2zsel*
Sorry-I thought of another couple of questions-

Source for almonds-what type-raw/salted, etc.?
Source for DCCC?

Thanks!

Blanched almonds (have skins removed) are easiest to digest. And Pecans.

Nuts and DCCC info here:
http://www.scdiet.org/8resources/foodoptions.html

A number of Pecanbread group people order from here: http://nuts4u.com/

I like Digestive Wellness almond flour: www.digestivewellness.com

Or you can used dripped yogurt as a substitute for DCCC (which makes waaaaay better cheesecake for the Intro. diet, it's just time consuming.)


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
I'm x-posting this in the dentistry area too..

I have some major dental problems going on. I'm going to have to have some serious work done(removal of 1 and probably more amalgam fillings/caps-possibly even removal of teeth). I'm also breastfeeding my dd who's 1 year, and needs some serious gut healing. I checked with the mercury-free dentist that I'm going to use, and he won't work on me while I'm breastfeeding, which is understandable. But...if I wean my dd, I'm afraid we're going to get some worse problems with her gut and body. (When I feed her most anything...we find it in her diaper virtually unchanged. Seriously.) I'm at a loss.
It's kinda a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I don't want her to get any mercury through me, but if I don't bf her, I'm afraid she'll get no nutrition at all...
Is there anything I can take while having the work done to help bind to the mercury and flush it out? Or maybe just not bf for a small time period, and pump and dump for a bit?
Can anyone suggest anything?
HELP!











Have you seen the "Metal Fillings Replaced While Bf'ing?" thread?
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=241750

Pump and dump would have to be for several weeks I think, the research is not fresh in my mind. However, 2-3 months after removal, your body goes into detox mode... it starts releasing all the stored Hg in your organs into your bloodsteam (and therefore your milk) because the constant source of the metal has been removed.

A substance to bind to Hg is not really well researched enough to be clear IMO. There are claims about chlorella, but then my information says chlorella is dangerous. Moneca, a mama who used to belong to this tribe, is using bentonite clay for herself, but not bf'ing.

You can't wait at all on touching the amalgams... ?

I don't know if it helps but DS's gut went downhill right after we weaned. Here I was thinking it was all me causing these problems in him.. and that may have been true initially... but BM was certainly doing something right.

I know this is a really really hard decision to make


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
What am I looking for before we can start some raw fruit/veggies??? I'm confused on this point and not wanting to rush ahead but I'm also dying for something crunchy!!! DD and I still have a yeast rash but it is slowly getting better (although today I saw those curds on her vulva that tell me there is internal yeast too for her). I'm still having some constipation but not as bad. DH is now having constipation. He was really tired but now that is better.

I'm just confused and unsure how to figure this one out.

That's a good question... I don't know! I think you'd just have to test it out and see if you can digest them. Everyone is so individual. And you might find that certain fruits or veggies would work but not others. Sorry I can't be of more help!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
Am I crazy to want the whole family on SCD?
My DP thinks I'm a nutter for "buying" in to SCD it for myself and Galen. One of these days I'm going to get (read 'force') him to read the book.







I've been gradually getting us all used to this new way of eating, rather than the immediate change that is recommended. I'm hesitant if this is a good approach as far as determining changes in symptoms, but this seems easiest for us. Any thoughts?

Anyway, I want my DS and DD on the diet since I feel both would benefit from it. It would kill my DD if Daddy ate something different for the meals when he's here. Perhaps my DP can have non-SCD meals at work which will probably be the best compromise.

As for symptoms, I've had diarrhea for a good month now (except today) along with bloating and often excessive flatulence. The kids both have rather hard stools (except when we had the stomach flu last weekend). My LO -- who is still mostly breastfed -- can go up to 4 days without a BM. The last couple of days, he's popped once a day, and both times were hard and difficult for him to pass. My DD on the other hand has had compacted poop every day (up to twice a day) for a month or more now.

Both kids have developed eczema in the last 2 months







My DD's is rather like dry skin, not really obvious at all until you feel her legs. My DS however has deveoped two eczema sites on both legs, in exactly the same positions where he had them when he was an infant. I had been talking about my gut feeling that something was still not quite right with Galen, and now we have the proof ):

If there's anything to "buy into" ... it's valid science! (And science that's not sponsored by a drug co.) That is the one thing I always say when people ask me about why the SCD diet and not Maker's or not Crook's candida diet, etc. etc. The SCD just makes sense and was clinically tested. Plus I really responded when I tried it. I think you will too, your symptoms sound similar to mine.

My DH eats out *a lot*. I do make him some stuff we don't eat (and he has his stash of Frosted Flakes and Honey Nut Cheerios







). DS is so young, (and has been on special diets since he was 8 mos old!) that he just naturally accepted that diff. people have different food. But for an older kid, *definately* whole family! This might change in our house, I don't know. If that's the case, it's not going to pretty though, let me tell you.









Hard stool is reflective of digestive issues and intestinal flora imbalance as well. It could be diet influencing it too of course. But I swear, so many people have poor digestion, no one, including dr's, knows what normal pooping is!!!

RE: Galen's eczema spots
This is an interesting thing, my DS has "hot spots" on the tops of his feet too (where we used hydrocortisone before I woke up and got a clue so I think that may have also had something to do with it. :doh: ). I don't know if it is a yeast/fungal issue that stays dormant or the skin just remembers or what. I've never found out why.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AnnaLaughs*
Hello, I'm new to this area but have been doing quite a bit of research on healing the gut. DD had VERY severe eczema that cleared after we eliminated soy..she is also reactive to a few other things. The concept that I could have a leaky gut that contributed to this is interesting. She was ex. BF until about 10 months and still nurses about once a day at 3.
My question is this: What probiotic do you recommend for me? DD takes Baby Jarrow. Also, what enzymes for both of us? I am sorry if these are simplistic questions.....the research is a little overwhelming.
Also, how can we tell...here at home....if it's a yeast problem or bacteria problem? Different sites have little "quizes" that have me thinking it's both. Could it be both or one in me and a differnt in DD?
Thanks!









Hi there!









Please feel free to jump in with anything interesting to discuss... sometimes I worry that all this SCD talk squelches anything else.

I highly recommend homemade yogurt/kefir as the only probiotics that are worth taking. The bacterial counts in capules or store bought yogurt just cannot compare: http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/co...onspiracy.html

I personally took hundreds and hundreds of dollars of little white capsules but didn't see true healing until yogurt/kefir.

There are a few descriptions of yeast/bacterial issues which can help you nail it down but I think like tests, they are not necessarily accurate. Yeast is usually fluffy or stringy diarrhea. Bacterial is horrible stench. For diet, probiotics and enzymes, the treatment is similar for both.

The only reason to really know and be careful with the distinction is if you are going to use anti fungals like GSE for ex. will make bacterial issues worse, but help yeast. I also wonder, that since we have about 400 diff. species in our guts, if it's not a case of having both quite often too.

Enzyme recs here:
http://www.enzymestuff.com/supplement.htm

We use Houston and Enzymedica.
V-Gest is very gentle, good for sensitive kids to start b/c it's low protease but still has other enzymes like lipase.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

DD's sleeping has not been as good the last 2 nights . . . so I"m up again. I think it was the spaghetti sauce I ate (?) SCD legal.

Can someone tell me if I am correct in this:?

I originally ordered Peptizyde a while back (before SCD) because I thought I could take it and continue to eat gluten and caesin







but only used it a couple of times and not since starting SCD UNTIL yesterday when I realized that Peptizyde is a multiple protease and this means it should help break down proteins right?

Well, I used about 1/3 capsule on some ground turkey last night (I only ate a tiny bit since I'm still afraid of dd's reaction) and then tonight I ate some more ground turkey (with about 1/3 capsule).

Am I right that this stuff should help break down proteins?

FTR, I have bloating and gas and rumbly tummy tonight (I think I had it last night too). Is this from the Peptizyde? Anybody else experience this?


----------



## <<<Scarlet>>> (May 19, 2005)

Okay this is probley gunna get lost in the middle of this thread, but you ladies have answers....

dd2 has what I self diagnosed as pdd... and on this website .... http://childbrain.com/pddassess.html .... she scored a 100... which suggested mild pdd...
Anyways her behavior along with her horrible constipation and excema resulted in me removing dairy from her diet 100%
constipation gone, excema gone, and her behavior is normal, she's like a whole other child... I love it.... I re did that eval on the website and she got a 30... no pdd...









Ok so heres my question.... i stopped giving her dairy, and I kinda understand how and why she reacted the way she did. but how do i fix her stomach?
can she ever eat dairy again..? (dh gave her a glass of choc milk last week and her legs broke out with the excema, i explained that she can't have ANY dairy, no matter how normal she is acting)

So I googled healing the gut, but couldnt find anything about healing a childs gut....
So I came here for some help.... Someone please tell me where to start the healing....
TIA


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Big







to Jane, we love you!

mom2zsel, I get my nuts from the health food store. You can order them from Digestive Wellness Raw is best, especially cashews. Peanuts have to be in the shell, as roasted/salted nuts have starches added to them. DCCC is very hard to find, you can special order it from here: http://cjohnc.hostcentric.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv (I haven't tried to). Whole Foods here in the Seattle area carries it.

Chrissy, healing the gut can be done, and there are multiple strategies to use, including diet, enzymes, and supplements. Jane started the original healing the gut thread, with the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (see www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info for more info).


----------



## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

I am going to be trying the SCD with myself and the kids, however I am also wondering if my dh could use it too. His stomach always hurts. He probably does not go a week without vomiting. After ds was born he would vomit almost daily. They ran tests on him and couldnt find anything. I was wondering at the time if it was just stress and all in his head. Now Im wondering if the stress that he has at work (he owns his own business) added to the fact that he eats a crap diet when he is not at home has caused him to now have problems with his stomach. Do you think that he could also benefit from the SCD diet? He would be on it while at home anyway because im not going to be fixing him a separate dinner, but I would have to force him to give up his TV dinners at work that he thinks is so great.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
DD's sleeping has not been as good the last 2 nights . . . so I"m up again. I think it was the spaghetti sauce I ate (?) SCD legal.

Can someone tell me if I am correct in this:?

I originally ordered Peptizyde a while back (before SCD) because I thought I could take it and continue to eat gluten and caesin







but only used it a couple of times and not since starting SCD UNTIL yesterday when I realized that Peptizyde is a multiple protease and this means it should help break down proteins right?

Well, I used about 1/3 capsule on some ground turkey last night (I only ate a tiny bit since I'm still afraid of dd's reaction) and then tonight I ate some more ground turkey (with about 1/3 capsule).

Am I right that this stuff should help break down proteins?

FTR, I have bloating and gas and rumbly tummy tonight (I think I had it last night too). Is this from the Peptizyde? Anybody else experience this?

Yes, proteases do break down proteins. Multiple stains are found to be more effective in smaller doses than one whopper dose of only one strain. Peptizyde is unique in that it was developed specifically to break down the casein and gluten protein peptides. These peptides can cause reactions in ASD kids especially if not fully broken down by the body (but really any susceptible person too I think, not just ASD kids). The protein peptides are broken down into their separate amino acids by the enzyme action. (However, Pept. does not work for celiacs allergic to gluten.)

Another aspect of proteases is the ablility to clear inflammation from the body, and speeds gut healing in this manner as well. Especially when given in between meals. It also helps clear out the gut of pathogens and debris caused by die off.

So with respect to your tomato sauce question. I don't know for sure. Did the tomato sauce have skins? Garlic? Bloating and gas for me usually means I ate something I shouldn't and couldn't digest it completely. Sometimes this is indicative of die off. I did indeed notice some die off when I started enzymes. But it was a different feeling than "ate something bad" feeling.

Proteases make me (and DS) hyperactive if I take too many, I needed to start slow. They are incredibly useful though, I notice a clarity of mind, lots of energy, and very good digestion when I take them regularly. I've finally worked up to being able to take between meals now.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommaToThree*
dd2 has what I self diagnosed as pdd... and on this website .... http://childbrain.com/pddassess.html .... she scored a 100... which suggested mild pdd...
Anyways her behavior along with her horrible constipation and excema resulted in me removing dairy from her diet 100%
constipation gone, excema gone, and her behavior is normal, she's like a whole other child... I love it.... I re did that eval on the website and she got a 30... no pdd...









Ok so heres my question.... i stopped giving her dairy, and I kinda understand how and why she reacted the way she did. but how do i fix her stomach?
can she ever eat dairy again..? (dh gave her a glass of choc milk last week and her legs broke out with the excema, i explained that she can't have ANY dairy, no matter how normal she is acting)









Hi Chrissy,

That is fabulous about your DD!









Probiotics, digestive enzymes and good fats like cod liver oil are the short list of how to heal the gut. A number of us are on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet to heal intestinal flora imbalances and digestion, the root cause of allergies and immune system problems.

In addition to BTVC, I especially recommend Karen DeFelice's book for you: www.enzymestuff.com
It describes all about leaky gut and behavioral manifestations, and using enzymes to heal. You will understand so much about the connection. The key to understand why these intolerances exist is to know how and why the gut is not breaking down food properly.









My personal opinion is that pasteurized dairy proteins are so problematic in this society, I think there are many indications that are worsened by them because our guts cannot digest them. I'm a huge believer in raw milk because the proteins are not clumped together by heat, and it contains enzymes, immune factors and probiotics, just like breastmilk, that aid the gut.

But even all that being said, my DS can only do goat's milk yogurt right now (no lactose, proteins are smaller and easier to digest and yogurt predigests them). My dream is to finally have the day when he can have fresh raw milk straight, fully digesting all the lactose and proteins!

www.pecanbread.com is all about the SCD for ASD kids and is non dairy or using goat dairy.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Thank you Jen









How are you doing this week? It was you that was not noticing much progess, right? (I kept meaning to respond to that again last month and got brain ***.) Have you tried enzymes between meals or using antifungals?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *memory maker*
I am going to be trying the SCD with myself and the kids, however I am also wondering if my dh could use it too. His stomach always hurts. He probably does not go a week without vomiting. After ds was born he would vomit almost daily. They ran tests on him and couldnt find anything. I was wondering at the time if it was just stress and all in his head. Now Im wondering if the stress that he has at work (he owns his own business) added to the fact that he eats a crap diet when he is not at home has caused him to now have problems with his stomach. Do you think that he could also benefit from the SCD diet? He would be on it while at home anyway because im not going to be fixing him a separate dinner, but I would have to force him to give up his TV dinners at work that he thinks is so great.

UGH, how awful for him! I think vomiting is the worse thing on the planet. I'd rather have a raging migraine or just about anything else!

I think stress can exacerbate bodily reactions, but not be the ultimate cause, ykwim? A good diet definately helps the body deal with stress, I can personally attest to *enormous* mood and energy changes when my gut started healing.

The gut produces neurotransmitters, it totally makes sense that problems there effect the brain and behavior.

Ask him to give it several couple weeks, full commitment, just to test it. And pay special attention that he has a lot of legal foods to eat so he's not tempted. It's a short time to commit that may lead to a lifetime of feeling better. Once you start feeling better, and then if you slip and cheat and feel horrible, it makes it easy to know what the correct choice is.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Chrissy,*

*I'd also like to add on to the subject of diet and gut healing: learning about nutrition and how it effects the body*. And so far the most incredible source I've found has been the book "Nourishing Traditions" and the Weston Price foundation.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...230261-8891810

www.westonaprice.org

Applying some philosophies of NT: soaking all beans, grains, nuts to reduce phytates which inhibit digestive enzymes and bind to minerals preventing their absorption. Yogurt/kefir/fermented foods to replenish gut flora. Bone broths everyday for minerals and gelatin that heals the gut. Cod liver and coconut oil to boost immune system. Grass fed meats and pastured eggs for the essential fatty acids.

These foods can heal the gut. And learning why this is... *and just as importantly why the overprocessed, chemical laden, nutrient reduced, antibiotic/pesticide/herbicide filled modern analogues of these healthy foods damage the gut and immune system* ... was a true awakening for me.

And of course the other practices we do to damage our gut and immune system: antibiotics, tylenol/advil, chlorine in water, steriods, birth control pills. The list goes on and on. This entire journey to heal DS and myself has given me such a different perspective of health and healing than I had before.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

My clay came today. Now how do I use it???

It is very high in iron I noticed. Will this be a problem with scd or it that just something about iron suppliments that are a problem? (I need more iron so that is a good thing).

It recomends 1/2 tsp a day. Is this a good dose? What about for my dd? (she's 2).

Thanks!

We're taking the diet on the road for the first time tonight. Going to a dinner meeting and bringing our own dinner w/ us. Wish us luck!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Hi Jane, I haven't tried enzymes between meals lately, we should try that. DS can swallow pills now, which helps immensely (he's very proud of this feat, which he taught himself). What kind of antifungals have worked for you? (TMI warning) I actually think, based on our stool, that we have both yeast and bacteria -- we get alternating loose stool and harder stool, sometimes light colored and sometimes darker, almost always foul smelling. We're doing homeopathics, as well, although I may try a new homeopath, as we haven't seen much progress with the constitutional remedies we've tried. Either way, many herbal antifungals are also antidotes for homeopathic remedies, so we have to be careful there.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I can't find the answers to these:
How long does yogurt last?
Is Friendship Farmer's Cheese a legal version of DCCC?

BBL to post about my hair elements test results. . .


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
How long does yogurt last?

"The cultures will remain active for about 2 weeks if properly refrigerated."
http://pecanbread.com/goatyogurt.html (last line on this page)


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Can I be going through die off AGAIN? I haven't eaten anything different, and yet I feel lousy. Does this happen more than one initial time?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Hey Patty, how'd your dinner go?

Hopefully Firefaery will be around to answer the clay question, she's the expert on that one.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Is Friendship Farmer's Cheese a legal version of DCCC?

Yes, Friendship FC is the one I use. It's at Whole Foods but at twice the price of my local market, so I just get extra and freeze them.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Can I be going through die off AGAIN? I haven't eaten anything different, and yet I feel lousy. Does this happen more than one initial time?

Yep!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Ughh, (whine, whine) Why?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm majorly PO'd right now about ProGurt non dairy yogurt starter.

I got it for DS's goat yogurt b/c it's dairy free and he still cannot do cow proteins. Well here I am preparing it all along for him, thinking it was soooo great b/c the taste was very mild compared to acidophilus yogurt. *Well it's because it's not fermenting correctly!!!!*









I posted this rant on Pecanbread:

Quote:

Jody, this is what I thought too, until today....

I have always made goat yogurt for DS with the 1/4 tsp. ProGurt
starter as directed. Perfect temperature maintained, all directions
followed etc. for months now. It turns out with the same mild taste
every time. I read this before about the L. casei and thought
great, good for kids.

Well I just made the yogurt again the usual way, except I used some
leftover yogurt in the jar *in addition* to the regular starter
amount. (We went thru the last batch in two days b/c I was eating
some, so it was very fresh.) Everything else as normal. This batch
of yogurt is TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Much more tart, like acidophilus
yogurt, and lots firmer.

This says to me that previous mild batches, even though cultured for
24 hours, did not have all the lactose removed because there was not
enough starter. Because once all the lactose is removed, more
bacteria doesn't grow b/c it doesn't have anything to feed on right?

What is the definitive test to ensure lactose is removed? I
originally thought it was the tart taste.

I'm NOT AT ALL HAPPY about this possibility. My DS has not been
progressing and I'm wondering if this is the problem.
*So here's a rule that should not be broken: if your 24 hr. is not super tart don't eat it!!!!*


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

The dinner went ok. Unfortunatly I am reacting to something I ate but I'm not sure what. It was a pretty stressful meeting so I thought it might have just been that last night but we had the left overs for lunch today and I'm having the same symptoms. Bad heartburn/feeling like I might throw up. I think it was either the broccoli or the coconut. I have had both previously and had no reactions but I think I had more last night than on previous occasions. The only other possibility (that is just hitting me now) is the powdered egg whites I used to make the macarrons. I assumed they are legal since they are just egg whites but perhaps they have something else in them that makes them illegal....

Hmmmm....

I'm also really depressed right now and it feels systemic, not relational if that makes sense. I'm assuming it is die off stuff but man it is lousy. Anyone have any ideas? I have changed so much about my eating/suppliments etc that I'm not sure if I'm not getting something essential to my well being or what.

Also, what can I use for dd's teething. I'm using a homepathic liquid and it seems to help some but it wears off pretty quickly. I used to give her motrin before bed and that would get her through the night but it has illegal ingredients in it so I'm skipping that. She really freaks out if I try to give her meds in the middle of the night so getting more homeopathic into her at that point is not much of an option. Any ideas? She works on teeth for months before they come in. She began teething at 3 months old and we didn't see any teeth untill she was over 9 months old. She began these molars a 3-4 months ago and finally one is showing through and I can see another one just poking through. It could be a while for the last two.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Ughh, (whine, whine) Why?

Are you asking me or the universe?


----------



## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Thanks Jane for being so kind as to reply to my post. We really do all love ya







I think my DP might have read my post and your reply. He doesn't snoop (though clearly this is an open forum anyway) but he might have taken a peek since I've been talking about this thread and SCD much too much (according to him of course)







He might just suprise me and jump on board too. He likes surprising me that way!

That sucks about the ProGurt non dairy yogurt starter. I'd be







too. I was planning on ordering some of the starter tomorrow, but I'll see if I can get another non-dairy one at a local HFS instead.

Talking about goats milk, I'm probably just going to end up using the commercial kind since the possibility of getting organic raw goats milk is nill at this point in time. I'll keep trying through my friend, and if I can find the farm, I might be able to twist the arm of the farmer in time. I wish this were easier! (then again, I wish everything was easier since I feel lousy most days).

I've also been wondering if I should have cows milk yogurt lately. About a week ago, I upped my in take of commercial cows milk yogurt (a brand with live bacteria) and have given some to DS. This is really the only thing that has changed in our diets, and I can see the start of eczema on his face!







I'm not going to take any more nor give him any. BUT, I'm wondering if I do start consuming homemade yogurt from raw cows milk, how will that effect what he gets through breastmilk? Also is commercial goats milk homemade yogurt just going to be as troublesome as the commercial cows milk yogurt would be? (I assume not as trouble some, but how does pasturization effect digestion? Do they homogenize goats milk in Canada?)

I've been wondering, is it legal to have seaweed in SCD? I love dulse, want to use kmobu for soaking beans, kelp for seasoning and agar-agar as a gelatin substitues. I'm also seriously considering spirulina for my low, low iron levels (been on the anemic side off and on for years) especially since after having two closely spaced babies.

Also, I need to find a suitable Vitamin C supplement. Those who take this, what brand do you use? I need Sodium Ascorbate, but all the brands I've come across locally have at least some ascorbic acid, which I want to avoid entirely if possible.

One last question (which may be completeley silly):
Is Almond meal equivalent to Almond flour?

The only product labelled "Almond flour" (refridgerated) I can get locally is Bob's red mill, and it's about $14/lb!
Almond meal however I can get at a bulk food store (not sure how it stays fresh without refridgeration) for $7.8/lb.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Are you asking me or the universe?
















I was really asking you but I can do the *why me?* thing w/ the best of 'em!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Okay, you experienced people . . .
I'm starting to suspect that dd is very sensitive to salicylates. I'm going to get some No Phenol and try it but here's the thing:
I just found that almonds are VERY high in salicylates and so is honey!
These are my staples now.

What do you all know about salicylates? Are any of your dcs sensitive to them too?


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## allergy mom (Feb 2, 2006)

Jane,

Have you ever had any reason to think that you were giving too much high protease enzyme such that it would cause blood in the stool or damage to the digestive system or have you ever seen any information refering to same? I have gone over the enzymestuff.com website and not seen anything that discusses symptoms of overdosing.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







I'm majorly PO'd right now about ProGurt non dairy yogurt starter.

I got it for DS's goat yogurt b/c it's dairy free and he still cannot do cow proteins. Well here I am preparing it all along for him, thinking it was soooo great b/c the taste was very mild compared to acidophilus yogurt. *Well it's because it's not fermenting correctly!!!!*









I posted this rant on Pecanbread:

*So here's a rule that should not be broken: if your 24 hr. is not super tart don't eat it!!!!*









Just wanted to quickly say, that I use the progurt starter and every time the yogurt is super duper tart. So I wouldn't think it was "all progurt" for example, but maybe you got a bad batch. And that still sucks







Are you going to call the company??


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

I found out today how much my dd's and I need to change our diet. I had been grain free for 4 days and today I cheated. Man are we paying for it. My 2 dd's are very gassy, especially the baby. My bad







:

Anyway, How long before I will be able to notice a difference? a few weeks, a few months? Please give me an idea

Oh yeah, I got both of the books suggested at the library yesterday. I have started glancing through them, but will try to actually read them tomorrow.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Annikate-on salicylates: Make sure you are buying organic almonds. Organic nuts, veggies and fruit are allowed to ripen longer. Being picked prematurely will increase the levels of salicylates. Also, make sure you soak them. It makes a big difference for us. When possible buy from farmers markets and placed like that (fruit stand etc) where they don't have the option of "gas ripening."
Using raw honey also seems to make a big difference too. Ds is very sensitive, but not nearly as much when we do organic and raw. HTH.


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

So I recently finished reading the Maker's Diet, and after some contemplation have decided to go on it with ds2. I did read Breaking the Vicious Cycle a few months back, and while they are similar, I feel intuitively drawn to the Maker's Diet for some reason that I can't really explain. I am really hoping that it will clear up ds's allergies. I've been reading up on HSO's and have decided that we _are_ going to take them (though not as many as prescribed due to $$). I looked at the other supplements, but I don't think any of them would be necessary for our needs at this point. I also bought a small water filter that fits right on our tap. I figure if I'm going to make the effort, we might as well go all the way with it. Right now I'm trying to figure out the logistics of eating NO grains for 2 weeks, so if any of you have ideas please share! I would love to hear some specific recipes!


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Oh, and btw, I feel like when I talk about this process with others, they must think I'm such a freak...like it's just a couple of allergies, what's the big deal? Get some cortisone cream and let it go already.

Just needed to get that off my chest.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Jennifer,

I posted last month a very large post on my current view of elimination diets. For us they helped for a time, but never fixed the problem. I think you have to go beyond "there is a certain food or foods that is causing this" and look to the entire immune and digestive system. Why is it that they cannot handle certain foods? And we definately discuss that here.









It seems to me that elimination diets may help to identify culprits and help to establish concretely that there is a gut problem.

Quote:

The concept of a "food free" diet is very well discussed in Karen DeFelice's books: www.enzymestuff.com
I've perused this but we would have to get our doctor to sign off and write a "prescription" for over-the-counter additives for daycare. I just don't see THAT happening.

Quote:

Her explanation of leaky gut will make more sense why a bf'ing babe can react to mom's milk... it is not supposed to be that way. It means you are not digesting your food properly and whole food proteins are getting into your bloodstream. Thus just eliminating one or several foods won't fix that problem because if the problem continues, there will just be new foods to react to.
What I don't understand is why, when I didn't change my diet, his problems popped up when they did - that it isn't more of something in his solid food diet. Moreover, when he reverted back to exclusive nursing (when he had mild rotavirus a few weeks ago and we were home together for a few days), his skin issues almost vanished - we went back to work and to daycare before they were fully cleared up. When he started eating more broadly again, his problems re-emerged.

Because daycare provides food and will work with us to some extent, I'd rather not hunt and peck at what he can eat - I'd like to be able to provide them a list of things that would fit into the quasi-institutional setting (e.g., nuts would be out of the question; each meal must have protein).


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## 2rubies (Oct 2, 2004)

Hi-
Finally subbing for March! I was wondering where everyone went! I don't have much time now, but I wanted to post that I have been SCD now for one month







and my colitis is at least 85% better. Good thing, too. My dr said no one would scope me while pg and none of the meds would be a good idea either. It really is all about nutrition and digestion!! I'm learning so much from reading here-thanks all of you!

Kristin


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Got dd's test results today. She is very high (at least 70th percentile) in aluminum and mercury. Very close to 68th percentile in arsenic, silver and tin. (THere are others that are about 60th percentile too.)

OMG what do I do now?

Gonna post over in vaccinations later when I have more time. . .


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## Lisadeanne (Sep 15, 2003)

Hey all







I have been following these threads for a while now. I have a quick question. I dont plan on buying a yogurt maker. I just went to Whole foods and got some Bio K acidopholous yogurts to take. Has anyone heard of these?? I have been following the scd as best as I can with only a small cheat here and there. Major diet change for me! I have also been taking gse. I want to rebuild my flora now and wanted to know if this stuff is any good. Thanks!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Patty, I've been super depressed, too lately, and was wondering whether it was the diet, perhaps I'm allergic to something in it, or maybe the change in weather (spring has always been hard for me for some reason).

Annakate, I often suspect that ds is intolerant to salicylates, but you would think that No Phenol would make a difference then, right? And it didn't seem to. But maybe we weren't consisent enough about it. The stuff sure is expensive to take that regularly, isn't it?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I'm pressed for internet time this week. Sorry. WHat's the clay question?


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## Cmadb12 (Dec 20, 2004)

Thank you soooo much Jane for your response...still researching all of the great info...
to answer your question, DS has had no official diagnosis other than to say that he has a constipation issue that is purely behavoiral and that it will work itself out!!! right!!!

will keep you posted as to his progress and wish you and everyone here the best of luck with everything!

MANY, MANY thanks again...!!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allergy mom*
Jane,

Have you ever had any reason to think that you were giving too much high protease enzyme such that it would cause blood in the stool or damage to the digestive system or have you ever seen any information refering to same? I have gone over the enzymestuff.com website and not seen anything that discusses symptoms of overdosing.

Possibly, see this quote from site:

Quote:

If you have an injured gut, really poor digestion, bad bacteria or yeast problem, it seems to help to pick a broad-spectrum product not high in proteases and then a separate high protease product. The reason is that proteases might cause some irritation to seriously injured tissues, so a 'gentler' approach works better. The proteases are not necessarily harming the injured tissue, just causing irritation. Think of when you may have skinned your knee or other similar injury. The wounded area is hurting, maybe bleeding. Maybe there is dirt in the area or the beginning of an infection. You need to clean the wound and apply disinfectant. This is needed to help the wound heal, but it does sting and hurt during the cleaning out processes. This is similar to what proteases may be doing. They clean out wounds, clean out infections, yet in the process may cause some irritation.

Proteases may do other tasks besides food breakdown, which also brings the potential for more adjustment effects. Proteases can also have an impact on bad bacteria, yeast, parasites, and viruses so they can contribute to greater die-off reactions. Proteases also more directly heal tissue and clean out wounds. Although all these healing activities are beneficial, they can also be accompanied by more adjustments which eventually go away anywhere from 1 day to 4 weeks or a little more depending entirely upon the enzyme product and the severity of your particular problem. Some people see no or very minimal adjustments while others see more.

Starting with the broad-spectrum product allows some gut healing to occur and then introduce the strong protease product at a later date. This way more effective doses of other non-protease enzymes can be given. It also helps the body to get used to improved food breakdown and nutrient absorption before the strong proteases come into play.
http://www.enzymestuff.com/basicsdosing.htm
See link for Karen's Yahoo group Enzymes and Autism, she is always around and will answer questions too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I'm pressed for internet time this week. Sorry. WHat's the clay question?

How to use it, dosage for die off, I think Patty asked above?

I gotta go tonight too... be back tom. everyone!


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## Village Mama (Jul 22, 2004)

Can anyone give me any feedback here? The SCD diet sounds great and I would love to try it..... However..... we have nut allergies! That cuts out many of our options. Has anyone tried this diet nut free? Or could anyone suggest a better gut healing diet that is more appropriate for those with nut allergies? Thanks! (I lurk here often.... you guys have such a busy tribe.... its hard to keep up every month!)


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

:


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Hi everyone. I am going to introduce myself again. My name is Stacy and me 15 mo dd Darian and I are finally going on the SCD. I've been wanting to for months now, but dragging my feet thinking we aren't really that bad off.

Some background: I am sure we have major yeast issues, possible bacterial too. Had thrush on and off for 3 months then it went away (thank god). Was on Birth Control pills for about 7 years, got off them a year before concieving dd. Horrible diet growing up and in college (lots and lots of sugar, Mt. Dew, packaged foods). About 2-3 months before dd I intuitively started eating great, lots of greens (had major kale cravings all the time). Stopped smoking, drinking pop, cut down on bad foods. Started excersicing and feelling great, then oops! To this day I really think I somehow knew she was coming to me!

So now I am determined to try this diet ( I am horrible at sticking to diets). Now that spring is almost here I am hoping it will be easier to eat tons of veggies and not want grains! We are still breastfeeding, but lately dd has been eating more. Her poops are pretty regular every morning, although sometimes she will skip a day and get all out of whack. But no loose stools here. She has pooped in the potty since 6 months old, so it is a little difficult to decipher her bm's!! The looked pretty formed though. The problem is that a lot of food comes out like it goes in. So here we are. Ready to heal ourselves!!

I just want to thank all of you for keeping up this thread and helping everyone out.

So we started the diet yesterday, but kinda jumped into it. Since we don't have loose stools is it wrong to assume that we can just start eating all legals? I don't consider our guts that bad, so I still plan on using cabbages and coconut and not cooking fruits. Should I go slower?

Also has anyone tried soaking the nut flour instead of the nuts? I thought maybe I would try, since it is cheaper for me to buy the flour.

Ok, there's my long story. Thanks for listening!!

Stacy and Darian


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## Lisadeanne (Sep 15, 2003)

I mad e a seperate post but nobody is answering so I will post here too. Anyone know if it is safe to take gse while pg. I am not pg yet but am ttc and would like to know ahead of time. Thanks!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok took dd to the chiro today. He hasn't seen dd in 2 months. He thought she just looked much better. Said her pulse is the strongest he has ever felt it. I'm thinking about cutting out cow dairy though (of course just after buying 2 gallons of milk and a whole bunch of cheese







: . I just don't like the taste of goat milk. Will raw taste any less goaty??? Can I use the goat yougart at whole foods as a starter? I have some sheep yougart that has been sitting in my fridge for a couple of weeks. Will that work? I have a local source of raw goat milk. DD seems to like goat just fine but I need to be eating it too if I'm keeping dairy away from her...

Village mama- check out www.pecanbread.com they address nut allergies some on that website and more on their yahoo group.

Oh and I just bought The Makers Diet. I'm really liking the more comprehensive explaination of how the gut and brain are interconnected.







I'm thinking that I may use at least some of his ideas to modify our scd (like cutting out all cow for now).

Ok gotta go.


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

poor babe woke up yesterday covered with eczema spots. I just started taking CLO, Should this help with the eczema too? We are going to start the SCD on monday. Hopefully it will help us.

this may be a stupid question about grinding nuts to make nut flours. Does 1 cup of nuts make one cup of nut flour? I was just wondering how much of a difference there is if there is one. Also JaneS, can you soak your nuts NT style (crunchy nuts) before grinding them?


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## aileen (Jan 23, 2006)

just wanted to say thank you for this thread. i have started a modified SCD diet (waiting for the books from the library). i'm still trying to find a boston source for raw cow or goat, and need a new yogurt maker, but: i am off grains, all dairy but a super tart sheep commercial sheep yogurt, and all sugar except honey. i started enzymes, zinc (w/copper) and GSE and need to add evening primrose. i can't say i've been in the best mental place about this new diet. i've been having serious sugar cravings. i started mumbling to myself about how i couldn't believe i was going to eat even weirder and more restictive, and after i've been on an elimination diet of one kind or another for 2.5 years for dd's eczema and then, LIGHTBULB!
elimination diet for 2.5 years?
so thanks again for this thread. i wouldn't have understood my own post just three weeks ago and now the puffy feeling that i've had for three months that i thought was weight from my lost pregnancy is GONE.
dd is still rashy, but i haven't started her yet. i was hoping her gut wasn't injured that it was just my giant particled milk - but well, we'll see.

i always suspected that my poor digestion was bombarding her with things her body thought it had to attack. i didn't know there was even a name. because i knew of no name i thought i was making it up.

i know it takes time but i'm hoping this will work quickly. i'd love to ttc this summer. actually, i'd love to ttc now, but i'm finally starting to realize how important this all is. if i can have another baby who won't wake up itching every two hours for almost three years - well then - that really puts a simple thing like a "diet" into perpsective.

thanks again, to jane, fairy, and everybody.


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## Celtain (Mar 10, 2004)

subbing. I have been having serious gut issues for about 10-15 years now. I have reached the end. (No pun intended) I have dairy issues and I am severly underweight. I also take medication that increases my metabolism due to an autoimmune disorder.

Any ideas as to how to keep the food inside long enought to actually get nutrition and calories from it?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
Thanks Jane for being so kind as to reply to my post. We really do all love ya







I think my DP might have read my post and your reply. He doesn't snoop (though clearly this is an open forum anyway) but he might have taken a peek since I've been talking about this thread and SCD much too much (according to him of course)







He might just suprise me and jump on board too. He likes surprising me that way!

That sucks about the ProGurt non dairy yogurt starter. I'd be







too. I was planning on ordering some of the starter tomorrow, but I'll see if I can get another non-dairy one at a local HFS instead.

I've also been wondering if I should have cows milk yogurt lately. About a week ago, I upped my in take of commercial cows milk yogurt (a brand with live bacteria) and have given some to DS. This is really the only thing that has changed in our diets, and I can see the start of eczema on his face!







I'm not going to take any more nor give him any. BUT, I'm wondering if I do start consuming homemade yogurt from raw cows milk, how will that effect what he gets through breastmilk? Also is commercial goats milk homemade yogurt just going to be as troublesome as the commercial cows milk yogurt would be? (I assume not as trouble some, but how does pasturization effect digestion? Do they homogenize goats milk in Canada?)

I've been wondering, is it legal to have seaweed in SCD?
Also, I need to find a suitable Vitamin C supplement. Those who take this, what brand do you use? I need Sodium Ascorbate, but all the brands I've come across locally have at least some ascorbic acid, which I want to avoid entirely if possible.

One last question (which may be completeley silly):
Is Almond meal equivalent to Almond flour?

The only product labelled "Almond flour" (refridgerated) I can get locally is Bob's red mill, and it's about $14/lb!
Almond meal however I can get at a bulk food store (not sure how it stays fresh without refridgeration) for $7.8/lb.









Thank you, any interesting comments from your DP?

Almond meal might be grainy-er than flour. In that case, if you have a food processor you could just make your own. Bob's is not at all fine, I don't like it. Digestive Wellness' flour is very fine and cheaper than either of the prices you list.

I use Source Naturals Sodium Ascorbate and get it at www.VitaminShoppe.com or www.IHerb.com. Plus a bioflavanoids capsule.

I'm pretty sure all seaweed is not legal, check www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

My DS cannot handle raw or pasteurized cow's milk yogurt but can do either raw or pasteurized goat yogurt. As far as whether YOU eating cow's yogurt will go thru your BM, it depends on whether you are digesting it.

Goat's milk is never homogenized, the fat globules are so small they just naturally stay dispersed.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*







I was really asking you but I can do the *why me?* thing w/ the best of 'em!









So why multiple die offs... you know, I don't know! I assume that's because there are probably several species of critters in there. Plus as much as SCD starves them, there are probably some that still survive. Just guessing ...

And this is all the more important do stick to the diet 100% b/c if you slip and cheat you are just increasing their numbers again.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *memory maker*
I found out today how much my dd's and I need to change our diet. I had been grain free for 4 days and today I cheated. Man are we paying for it. My 2 dd's are very gassy, especially the baby. My bad







:

Anyway, How long before I will be able to notice a difference? a few weeks, a few months? Please give me an idea

Oh yeah, I got both of the books suggested at the library yesterday. I have started glancing through them, but will try to actually read them tomorrow.

Poor bunnies!

I noticed a difference very quickly, like a week or two and I felt totally different! I could tell that I was finally digesting my food and the gas and bloating went away very quickly. The anxiety and insomnia took a bit more.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
So I recently finished reading the Maker's Diet, and after some contemplation have decided to go on it with ds2. I did read Breaking the Vicious Cycle a few months back, and while they are similar, I feel intuitively drawn to the Maker's Diet for some reason that I can't really explain. I am really hoping that it will clear up ds's allergies. I've been reading up on HSO's and have decided that we _are_ going to take them (though not as many as prescribed due to $$). I looked at the other supplements, but I don't think any of them would be necessary for our needs at this point. I also bought a small water filter that fits right on our tap. I figure if I'm going to make the effort, we might as well go all the way with it. Right now I'm trying to figure out the logistics of eating NO grains for 2 weeks, so if any of you have ideas please share! I would love to hear some specific recipes!

Good luck!!! I definately want to hear your progress. (Does he recommend digestive enzymes right away too? I forget.)

See the SCD Chefs thread in Meal Planning. It is small but maybe we can increase it...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
Oh, and btw, I feel like when I talk about this process with others, they must think I'm such a freak...like it's just a couple of allergies, what's the big deal? Get some cortisone cream and let it go already.

Just needed to get that off my chest.

No kidding. I heard that so much when I went thru a strict Elim. Diet with DS when he was 8 mos. "Just put him on formula" was all I heard









Thank goodness I didn't!! Or shot him up with toxic vaccines either!! I'm so glad I'm stubborn as heck.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Just came over to edit my last post about dd's hair elements test.
Wanted to say that I don't quite understand the counting rules (and couldn't really tell from Andy's site) but I did go by Andy's site under "How to Read Hair Test from DDI" and DD meets 1 of the 3 steps for "high probability of mercury poisoning." Her elements are all messed up.









So, Jane, what do I do next about this!?

Anyway, Hibou, I've also been hearing a lot of the formula crap.







People who suggest it just don't understand and you know, I don't have the time to educate them either. I just get pi**ed off every time I think about it. I think it was firefaery who had a good response to this - check back a couple of pages.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
It seems to me that elimination diets may help to identify culprits and help to establish concretely that there is a gut problem.

Maybe, but it didn't for me. I didnt see healing until intenstive probiotics (homemade kefir with raw milk at first, took hundreds of dollars of capsules without making much of a dent). Probably b/c I was eating lots of rice, sweet potatoes, standard Elim. Diet fare and very good for feeding intestinal flora imbalances.

Quote:

What I don't understand is why, when I didn't change my diet, his problems popped up when they did - that it isn't more of something in his solid food diet. Moreover, when he reverted back to exclusive nursing (when he had mild rotavirus a few weeks ago and we were home together for a few days), his skin issues almost vanished - we went back to work and to daycare before they were fully cleared up. When he started eating more broadly again, his problems re-emerged.
This could be either the "allergy" issue or the "gut problem as a whole" issue. Meaning it could be something in his diet, or it could be that his gut cannot digest solids very well at all b/c it is damaged ... the intestinal villi are worn down and not producing sufficient enzymes.

Exclusive breastfeeding did not produce half the issues in my guy until we started that horrid rice cereal as his first food and that totally set him off resulting in full body eczema. Was it an allergy to rice ... no, much more than that.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2rubies*
Hi-
Finally subbing for March! I was wondering where everyone went! I don't have much time now, but I wanted to post that I have been SCD now for one month







and my colitis is at least 85% better. Good thing, too. My dr said no one would scope me while pg and none of the meds would be a good idea either. It really is all about nutrition and digestion!! I'm learning so much from reading here-thanks all of you!

Kristin

WOW, that is *fantastic*! I'm absolutely thrilled to read this, it just made my night!









85% huh. No medications on the market for *anything* can claim that percentage. (Was just listening to the new vaccine for ear infections being touted as so great, with only a 30% reduction.







)

If you have any new staples to share, go over to Meal Planning forum and post in our SCD thread.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Got dd's test results today. She is very high (at least 70th percentile) in aluminum and mercury. Very close to 68th percentile in arsenic, silver and tin. (THere are others that are about 60th percentile too.)

OMG what do I do now?

Gonna post over in vaccinations later when I have more time. . .

\








I know how you feel. DS is high in arsenic, antimony, bismuth and right at high number of normal for Hg. Pretty interesting our kids are coming up with this isn't it. If you posted in Vac, let me know link.

How were her minerals? Getting minerals into her is crucial right now, as much as gut healing is too.... Gale Force here and MT in Vac has been instrumental in contributing to our knowledge that minerals are key to detox. Or in fact may have been the entire reasons why our kids are holding onto these metals in the first place. It's like chicken and the egg. Does the gut damage/low minerals cause or are caused by the metals? I'm now thinking it's a little bit of both, another "vicious cycle" feeding off of each other.

I'm so conflicted about chelation for DS. I've read so much about it but it's not feeling right. I'm taking him to a homeopath, our appt is next week.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lisadeanne*
Hey all







I have been following these threads for a while now. I have a quick question. I dont plan on buying a yogurt maker. I just went to Whole foods and got some Bio K acidopholous yogurts to take. Has anyone heard of these?? I have been following the scd as best as I can with only a small cheat here and there. Major diet change for me! I have also been taking gse. I want to rebuild my flora now and wanted to know if this stuff is any good. Thanks!

Hi!









I'm not familiar with that product... What is the bacterial count? There's 15 billion in just one single teaspoon of 24 hr yogurt. It's really really worth it to make your own, I don't use a yogurt maker at all anymore. I've posted my oven method a couple times.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Village Mama*
Can anyone give me any feedback here? The SCD diet sounds great and I would love to try it..... However..... we have nut allergies! That cuts out many of our options. Has anyone tried this diet nut free? Or could anyone suggest a better gut healing diet that is more appropriate for those with nut allergies? Thanks! (I lurk here often.... you guys have such a busy tribe.... its hard to keep up every month!)

There are various support lists at www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info with a large amount of people, I'm sure there are many who are doing it nut free.

The other issue is how was the allergy determined? IgE or IgG?

I know you can use coconut flour and bean flour but those are supposed to be for advanced users (been on diet for a while). Or dehydrate bananas and squashes and grind up as flour.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Some background: I am sure we have major yeast issues, possible bacterial too. Had thrush on and off for 3 months then it went away (thank god). Was on Birth Control pills for about 7 years, got off them a year before concieving dd. Horrible diet growing up and in college (lots and lots of sugar, Mt. Dew, packaged foods). About 2-3 months before dd I intuitively started eating great, lots of greens (had major kale cravings all the time). Stopped smoking, drinking pop, cut down on bad foods. Started excersicing and feelling great, then oops! To this day I really think I somehow knew she was coming to me!

So now I am determined to try this diet ( I am horrible at sticking to diets). Now that spring is almost here I am hoping it will be easier to eat tons of veggies and not want grains! We are still breastfeeding, but lately dd has been eating more. Her poops are pretty regular every morning, although sometimes she will skip a day and get all out of whack. But no loose stools here. She has pooped in the potty since 6 months old, so it is a little difficult to decipher her bm's!! The looked pretty formed though. The problem is that a lot of food comes out like it goes in. So here we are. Ready to heal ourselves!!

I just want to thank all of you for keeping up this thread and helping everyone out.

So we started the diet yesterday, but kinda jumped into it. Since we don't have loose stools is it wrong to assume that we can just start eating all legals? I don't consider our guts that bad, so I still plan on using cabbages and coconut and not cooking fruits. Should I go slower?

Also has anyone tried soaking the nut flour instead of the nuts? I thought maybe I would try, since it is cheaper for me to buy the flour.

Ok, there's my long story. Thanks for listening!!

Stacy and Darian

I just love that "changed my diet b/c I just knew my babe was on her way" story!









I would not do ahead and do the advanced foods... if your guts are not as bad as they could be, you'll just heal faster then. If they end up taking longer, you'll just prolong the agony and have to backtrack.

Plus the Intro Diet has been suggested b/c it jump starts your progress and I've heard that people that don't do it don't progress as well. I think it's really worth it to try. Once you understand the reasons for doing the diet in the first place: to starve out the bad bacteria/yeast, it doesn't make sense to feed some foods which could keep them alive at first. We just don't know what the current state of the population is down there... and also, if you do the diet with a clean slate, you'll be able to see any reactions to new foods or to raw or fibrous foods very clearly.









I kinda feel bad for bringing up the nut soaking issue. SCD has been proven to work without the soaking, so if the diet is really hard, and it is at first... forgo the soaking for a while until you get a handle on it and see how things are going.

I'm so jealous of your EC... I fear we won't EVER get there!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok took dd to the chiro today. He hasn't seen dd in 2 months. He thought she just looked much better. Said her pulse is the strongest he has ever felt it. I'm thinking about cutting out cow dairy though (of course just after buying 2 gallons of milk and a whole bunch of cheese







: . I just don't like the taste of goat milk. Will raw taste any less goaty??? Can I use the goat yougart at whole foods as a starter? I have some sheep yougart that has been sitting in my fridge for a couple of weeks. Will that work? I have a local source of raw goat milk. DD seems to like goat just fine but I need to be eating it too if I'm keeping dairy away from her...

Yay, more good news in the Tribe!









I think you can use goat yogurt as starter just fine but it depends on whether it contains the right bacteria.. ? What's the brand? I'm pretty sure sheep would work too, thats the same deal as goat: smaller proteins than cow.

Are you heating up very gently? I notice sometimes the yogurt tastes goaty if I heat up too fast or too hot. So yes going renegade and using raw goat and not heating it will make it less goaty tasting.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aileen*
just wanted to say thank you for this thread. i have started a modified SCD diet (waiting for the books from the library). i'm still trying to find a boston source for raw cow or goat, and need a new yogurt maker, but: i am off grains, all dairy but a super tart sheep commercial sheep yogurt, and all sugar except honey. i started enzymes, zinc (w/copper) and GSE and need to add evening primrose. i can't say i've been in the best mental place about this new diet. i've been having serious sugar cravings. i started mumbling to myself about how i couldn't believe i was going to eat even weirder and more restictive, and after i've been on an elimination diet of one kind or another for 2.5 years for dd's eczema and then, LIGHTBULB!
elimination diet for 2.5 years?
so thanks again for this thread. i wouldn't have understood my own post just three weeks ago and now the puffy feeling that i've had for three months that i thought was weight from my lost pregnancy is GONE.
dd is still rashy, but i haven't started her yet. i was hoping her gut wasn't injured that it was just my giant particled milk - but well, we'll see.

i always suspected that my poor digestion was bombarding her with things her body thought it had to attack. i didn't know there was even a name. because i knew of no name i thought i was making it up.

i know it takes time but i'm hoping this will work quickly. i'd love to ttc this summer. actually, i'd love to ttc now, but i'm finally starting to realize how important this all is. if i can have another baby who won't wake up itching every two hours for almost three years - well then - that really puts a simple thing like a "diet" into perpsective.

thanks again, to jane, fairy, and everybody.









Aileen you are cracked me up! That was a great post. Yes, the lightbulb has clicked, and finally everything makes sense and you have a clear path: isn't it a wonderful feeling? Glad to have you join us









I don't know if you are right in the city or what, but this is where I get my raw milk right now: www.justdairy.org

I belong to Weston but the closest pick up for you would be in Cambridge.
However a farm in Foxboro is going online soon and I'm going to be part of a group breaking away from JD and picking up in Tewsbury (way far for me but I'll be sharing drives with someone). Feel free to email me for pointers on JD. It can be very confusing. But you can get milk, butter, cheese, eggs, cream and sometimes meat (also grass fed) about every other month. The new co-op I'm joining will everything either weekly or bi including goat's milk, all kinds of meat and *sauerkraut* which I cannot make to save my life for some reason!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *embens*
subbing. I have been having serious gut issues for about 10-15 years now. I have reached the end. (No pun intended) I have dairy issues and I am severly underweight. I also take medication that increases my metabolism due to an autoimmune disorder.

Any ideas as to how to keep the food inside long enought to actually get nutrition and calories from it?









Ugh, I so feel for you! Welcome









What's the medication and what is it supposed to do?

Do you have a dx for your digestive issues? (not that you need to at all) So you have diarrhea as your major symptom and are not digesting your food? Don't be shy, we talk poop here all the time









Start reading about the Specific Carbohydrate Diet in my post #3 to this thread. This diet has been used to gain weight and heals the gut so that it can absorb food.

Digestive enzymes will help you too by breaking down the food into particles that can actually be used www.enzymestuff.com


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
The new co-op I'm joining will everything either weekly or bi including goat's milk, all kinds of meat and *sauerkraut* which I cannot make to save my life for some reason!

Jane, are you familiar w/the brand, "Real Pickles"? Unfortunately I don't have any in my fridge right now, but there are a Mass company. When my older was allergic to everything, or better, reacting to everything, it was still safe. So it might very well be SCD legal. Oh, they make kimchee (







) and sauerkraut.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

No, I'll have to look around! I haven't seen in my Whole Foods but they just re-org'ed the whole darn thing and I cannot find a blessed thing anyways. I now know Bubbies pickles are raw but the sauerkraut is not.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
No, I'll have to look around! I haven't seen in my Whole Foods but they just re-org'ed the whole darn thing and I cannot find a blessed thing anyways. I now know Bubbies pickles are raw but the sauerkraut is not.

These are all RAW









http://www.realpickles.com/stores.html<----Stores

http://www.realpickles.com/products.html<-----Products w/ingredient lists


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Jane,
Here's the link to what I posted in vaccines:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=419377


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Sorry this is so late...dh is gone for the week and I am pregnant, chasing a 2 and a 3 year old. I have no mama time.
For the Pascalite. I did 1/2 tsp three times a day for die off. We all do 1/4 tsp once or twice a day for maintenance. HTH. I'll be scarce for awhile, but I'll try to check back.


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

Hi everybody! I have missed out on this thread for a couple of months but now I am back. I've gotta get caught up with everything here! Dd is now 1 year and we have made it to her birthday without any grains in her diet at all.







We don't really follow the SCD too closely but she does not get any potatoes, grains, or other starchy foods. The eczema that was on her face when she was little is completely gone and she has babysoft skin again! So far she can eat eggs, cheese, goat's milk yogurt (not raw though, the store is ALWAYS sold out), any type of meat, and homemade broth. I think the dairy might be making her congested but so far she is doing so well. I feel like she would be a different baby today if she had had the conventional baby rice cereals and oatmeal. My mom sort of gives me crap about not giving her crackers and bread, but dd is doing so well without them that I don't want to take a chance. ANyway, now we are working on getting more cod liver oil back into our diets. Look forward to reading about how everyone else is doing!
Liane


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

firefaery - I will miss you! I don't know how you do it w/2 toddlers!








I'm hoping Allora (sp?) will call me back this week! I'll pm you and let you know.


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## Celtain (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Ugh, I so feel for you! Welcome









What's the medication and what is it supposed to do?

Do you have a dx for your digestive issues? (not that you need to at all) So you have diarrhea as your major symptom and are not digesting your food? Don't be shy, we talk poop here all the time









Start reading about the Specific Carbohydrate Diet in my post #3 to this thread. This diet has been used to gain weight and heals the gut so that it can absorb food.

Digestive enzymes will help you too by breaking down the food into particles that can actually be used www.enzymestuff.com


Ok, I'm on Synthroid. I have an underactive thyroid due to Hashimotos disease/disorder. If I don't take by the 2nd day I can barely get out of bed.








yes diarrhea is my problem. On a good day only once or twice. On a bad day seven to ten bouts. Yes EVERY day.

going to check out post #3 right now!!!! Thank you!


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## Celtain (Mar 10, 2004)

? for ya. I have issues with lactose and eggs. How can I do the diet without using either? I hate my body.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Oh, here you are.... March came in quick.

We just got hair test results back on myself and four of our children. I haven't got them completely interpreted yet....but just looking at it three of us including myself have delayed mineral transport (meet the counting rules), and two children have mid high toxic elements and probably would benefit from a short time on chelation.








...and to think I wanted to get the hair test to relieve my mind that some of us wouldn't need chelation.....that idea backfired on me!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I'm sorry Bestbirths. I really need to have my 2 yr. old's hair elements test done too.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*







...and to think I wanted to get the hair test to relieve my mind that some of us wouldn't need chelation.....that idea backfired on me!

More than likely the entire population needs chelation.

I am working on the mineral side first and then will decide if I still need chelation. I figure if my mineral levels are whacked, my body will not be as able to flush out all of those metals attached to the chelators. Then they will just rearrange themselves. That's no good. Don't bend over backwards on chelating if you are not fixing vitamins and minerals, you'll end up in the same spot later.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Has anyone ever seen the product, "Natural Cellular Defense"? I am reading about it and am completely amazed. It looks like a great option for detox. One report said that in women attempting to get pregnant after seven days on the product the toxin levels in their breast tissue went from 13-16 down to 2! It has been written about by Gabriel Cousens and David Wolfe-two people I really like. People on it are posting pictures because they are detoxing so well their hair color and eye colors are changing-getting darker and clearer. I still have more to read, just wanted to know if any of you have heard of it.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Here's a link...I'm very challenged in this dept. so I hope it works:
http://www.alivewithgabriel.com/arti...?a=read&aid=11


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I will post the other studies I have read if there is any interest...


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Interested, I'll check out the link!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

www.newstarget.com/015232.html


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Wow, sounds too good to be true, doesn't it?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Wow faery! Still reading but . . . wow!


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

subbing!


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

subbing


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Is there any point in getting my hair analized since I'm no where near weaning and not willing to put off ttc for several more years? Is there anything that I can do about it if I do have a problem? What about dd?


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Off to read the links. Lil' scared that I might find some David Wolfe poetry on there, but on I look.....

On a side note, we should be getting our refund any day now, so we should be starting the diet ASAP. To prepare, I ate my first piece of meat in 10 yrs. It was good, but I'm looking forward to not having to eat this stuff. I have a big enough problem w/eating fish, and eating buffalo was a lil' much. My 4 yr old, did not want to try it, of course.

Oh, I am having an amazingly difficult time understanding any of this enzyme stuff. I have been real fuzzy lately and the enzyme stuff is so over my head it is like in another language. The Houston essential page had 3 main types of enzymes. I see that some of them are SCD legal. Can someone explain to me which ones I might need. I know this is asking a lot, but I cannot understand the other page that has been frequently linked









And how much hair do you need for the hair sample? My hubby shaves his head regularly. Just wondering how much he needs for it to grow.

Thanks


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Is there any point in getting my hair analized since I'm no where near weaning and not willing to put off ttc for several more years? Is there anything that I can do about it if I do have a problem? What about dd?

Patty,

I think someone said it best a couple of pages back. Let's say you have all these chemicals, well the chances are your minerals are out of whack which are of PRIMO IMPORTENCE. You fix your minerals, supplement w/what is needed and then you can look at the toxicity again. The minerals will help clean you out. If you just try to get rid of the toxic stuff w/o addressing your minerals, it won't really come out.

At least, that is how I understand it.

Oh, off topic. Who here spoke to that psychic lady about your minerals and such. I am totally interested in calling her up


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I need a better way to make crispy nuts. Do you think it would work to put them in the crock pot w/ the lid off or askew? Making them in the oven just takes over too much space and is a big pain. Thoughts?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Amy you are so funny!








I can't help you much w/the enzymes as I'm still learning too but I will say that trial and error seems to be the best teacher for me.
Wanted to say too that yuck! I hate meat but am doing the best I can. I surely cannot bring myself to try what others suggest like buffalo, ostrich







, lamb or hmmm . . . there were others. I can like fish but am worried about the mercury. I can also handle chicken and turkey but dd can't so I'm sort of stuck. AND, I'm HUNGRY!

PM firefaery for info. on the intuitive. I have a call in to her but am waiting.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

For enzymes we did all fungal derived...AFP multiple protease, no fenol, and zyme prime.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

*Oooooh I am royally pi**ed right now!*

I had dd's blood drawn for her allergy testing and the doc called this a.m. and said the only thing it showed was that she was *very high* for wheat. Unfortunately, the lab DID NOT GET ENOUGH BLOOD and so we have to go do it again.









I'd almost like to just forget it but geez, if she's very high for wheat, I'd better find out what else it shows. Poor baby.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Jane,
THis might be a dumb question, but was just reading a response on another board where someone said SCD is semi-gfcf. SCD is TOTALLY gluten free isn't it?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Re: semi-gfcf, I think they mean that it's not officially casein free, but it can be done. Also, there are some things, like mustard, that contain trace amounts of gluten that are allowed on it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
Hi everybody! I have missed out on this thread for a couple of months but now I am back. I've gotta get caught up with everything here! Dd is now 1 year and we have made it to her birthday without any grains in her diet at all.









Liane!!! so glad to hear from you and doubly glad it is positive


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Jane,
THis might be a dumb question, but was just reading a response on another board where someone said SCD is semi-gfcf. SCD is TOTALLY gluten free isn't it?

Yes, it is totally GF because it was originally developed as the cure for celiac disease:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ac_disease.htm

A celiac would have to be very more careful b/c supposedly some do react on contact.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

RE: Houston's enzymes

Zyme Prime, No Fenol and AFP Peptizyde here too. Although DS has yet to work back up to Peptizyde... it is quite strong for him.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Has anyone ever seen the product, "Natural Cellular Defense"? I am reading about it and am completely amazed. It looks like a great option for detox. One report said that in women attempting to get pregnant after seven days on the product the toxin levels in their breast tissue went from 13-16 down to 2! It has been written about by Gabriel Cousens and David Wolfe-two people I really like. People on it are posting pictures because they are detoxing so well their hair color and eye colors are changing-getting darker and clearer. I still have more to read, just wanted to know if any of you have heard of it.

$200 and issued by a MLM... makes me suspicious right off the bat.

I'm too tired right now to do any more research on anything!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I need a better way to make crispy nuts. Do you think it would work to put them in the crock pot w/ the lid off or askew? Making them in the oven just takes over too much space and is a big pain. Thoughts?

That's a good idea! Although I think it was recommended to keep the temp at 150 to avoid killing enzymes with raw nut, but if you are going to cook with them anyways or they are not raw, I say go for it, and let me know how it goes!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Is there any point in getting my hair analized since I'm no where near weaning and not willing to put off ttc for several more years? Is there anything that I can do about it if I do have a problem? What about dd?

For minerals issue and also for commitment... if you know for certain there's a problem, you might work harder to correct it? Also to learn more about natural ways of detox thru nutrition.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

RE: hair sample amount

Maybe a 1/2 teaspoon? 1/4 teaspoon? somewhere around there.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *embens*
Ok, I'm on Synthroid. I have an underactive thyroid due to Hashimotos disease/disorder. If I don't take by the 2nd day I can barely get out of bed.








yes diarrhea is my problem. On a good day only once or twice. On a bad day seven to ten bouts. Yes EVERY day.

Yikes, you poor thing!!! SCD is definately worth a try, I think it will help. I've heard several testimonials from people like you.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *embens*
? for ya. I have issues with lactose and eggs. How can I do the diet without using either? I hate my body.

The SCD is lactose free.

You may be able to do eggs when the diarrhea stops... the book actually says to avoid them in this case. The gut will start healing and you might be able to handle just fine.

www.pecanbread.com has some egg free recipes, and maybe the support group lists would have more ideas too.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
RE: Houston's enzymes

Zyme Prime, No Fenol and AFP Peptizyde here too. Although DS has yet to work back up to Peptizyde... it is quite strong for him.
How did you know it was strong for your ds? I gave my 2 yr. old some enzymes yesterday for the first time and BOY! did she have a fussy day (and like 4 bms!)
Today was a whole different story. Good mood, good poopies.







BUT, her little bottom is red tonight. Do you think I should cut back?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok I did the nuts. Not sure if they got too hot or not. They came out a lot like last time when I did them in the oven. They taste cooked to me but what do I know. It certainly was a much less painful way to do it. I did it part of the time on high. I think next time I'll do it on low the whole time to keep the temp down. With the lid off it probably doesn't get much over 150 in there if that. I could still touch them with my bare hands. I just stirred every couple of hours. I think I'll soak some walnuts tonight.









Ok so I'm convinced I need to get my hair done. Anyone have the like for me again ?









I'm switching us to goat dairy for now. It tastes awful Imo but dd doesn't seem to mind. Hoping it doesn't make a difference







so I can go back to cow. Anyone have any ideas on how to make it taste less "goaty"? So far it is the uhp stuff from the grocery store. Still trying to get in touch with a local raw seller. I added some fruit to it and I think that was worse.

Oh and can anyone recomend a good cake recipe? I made the banana cake one from btvc and it was ok but not great. I made the marshmallow like frosting for it and that totally was the wrong way to go plus it was so stiff I couldn't spread it. DD has been invited to a b-day party and the host knows about our food issues and was offering to provide something we could eat. I said I would just bring a cake for us, today was the dry run. DD didn't seem to like the cake much but then she had skipped her nap and was pretty much done eating dinner so that could be why (she only eats when she is hungry, smart girl, even when it is sweets being offered)

I know there was something I wanted to respond to but I've lost it now.


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## ShannonCC (Apr 11, 2002)

I have a question







Can anyone give me a run down (or a list) of die-off symptoms? Or can I PM someone my question?


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

houstons enzymes can cause die off at first.
Our son takes them with every meal.

Die off can be different for everyone, mostly for our ds it is a feeling of unwellness, more fatigue, more headaches....oh and CRANKY!!!!

During the beginning we sopped up the die off by giving activated charcoal one hour after the Grapefruit seed extract we were giving for yeast. I'd say we gave activated charcoal during the first month of supps and chelation, trying to give the charcoal at least an hour after food and supps. I read that you are supposed to wait two hours, for activated charcoal. The problem is that charcoal absorbs die off but it also absorbs nutrients from food, and given with the chelators, it would absorb them too.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Pattyla-

I haven't braved a cake from scratch but I did purchase from the cloud county tea company and Gluten free essentials their yellow velvet cake and their extreme chocolate cake mix for dd's birthday. I served it to our entire homeschool group, then afterwards told them it was made w/o wheat, and no one noticed. Some even said it tasted lighter and better than real cake.

We've tried a best ever chocolate chip cookie reciepe from The cookbook "Special Diets for Special kids" which was really really yummy. We've made brown rice crispie treats with marshmallows and buttery sticks....all yummy

-----for someone who said mustard isn't gluten free-we use HyVee mustard and it is gluten free.


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

OK, couple of quick questions....

-It is safe to take grapefruit seed extract while nursing...right? (Also-does this get rid of other "things" besides yeast?)

-If I take enzymes, do I need to give my nursing 1 year old enzymes? Or would enough good stuff pass through me to her?

I'm really at a loss as to where to start with her. Her main food source right now is still me...because nearly everything we've ever given her to eat passes straight through her unchanged. She's never had normal BM poops, so I always knew something wasn't right.
We are planning on the whole family being on SCD, but financially we just can't swing it all right now.
So, any suggestions?
Thanks!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Best births- Thanks. We are doing scd so any grains are off limits for us.

Ok gotta go


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Oh....making a cake w/o grains sounds really difficult.









I just read in Andy Culter's hair assessment book that people with weak adrenals do better with grains in their diet....and most of my children and I have weak adrenals...so...we HAVE to eat grains, right? especially, occasionally the grains found in cake and cookies when we aren't on the yeast free diet


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Quote:

If I take enzymes, do I need to give my nursing 1 year old enzymes? Or would enough good stuff pass through me to her?
I would think, only if she was eating table food, or baby food, 20 min before eating. This is an excellent question. I would call the company who makes the enzymes about if you take enzymes, if the baby doesn't need enzymes to breastfeed....if the baby did need enzymes to breastfeed, you could try a chewable, or mix the powder in something and give it to her. You could try a trial of giving it to her and seeing if it made a difference.

On cost, I am exploring buying the powder from houstons in bulk through my hf store, it is $35 and $42 on the afp and zyme prime for the bulk powder, 200 doses...and the A/M yahoo group are teaching children as young as 2 1/2 to swallow vitamins...so we are exploring that. The bulk vitamins that you make yourself with a cap maker looks like what we will try to do for everything.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Pascalite clay is a much better option than activated charcoal for die off. It will remove toxins and leave trace minerals behind. IT will not take any nutrients out of food. It is high in iron, calcium, magnesium and manganese amongst others.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

We make grain-free cakes all the time! We







them. I actually do alot of raw stuff as well-as most all raw recipes are SCD legal. I made an apple crumble the other night that was to die for. I also made a "cheesecake" that was fantastic. My dh tried to eat it all on me! THe raw stuff is super nutrient dense, all you are using is nuts and fruit with maybe a bit of honey. IT's great, and my kids are super happy.
Now I'm just trying to find out if raw, unprocessed cacao beans would be legal!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Still readin on the NCD. IT is a MLM, but I haven't found a glitch yet and I even have talked (online) to some who have used it with great results...still more reading to do, but we may be trying it.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

I've only heard positive reports on NCD, but I am waiting too see more reports because so many natural mlm type things come out to be not up to all of the hype.

Wow! on cooking grain free

....the next thing I am going to try is making yogurt with the yogourmet...and the "d-lactate" free probiotic...I want to try to make yogurt out of that too...

...Pascalite clay







:


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Zanelee*
-If I take enzymes, do I need to give my nursing 1 year old enzymes? Or would enough good stuff pass through me to her?

I'm really at a loss as to where to start with her. Her main food source right now is still me...because nearly everything we've ever given her to eat passes straight through her unchanged. She's never had normal BM poops, so I always knew something wasn't right.
If you do call the company, please let me know what they say. My 11 mo. old and I are in the same situation. I am giving dd enzymes with each *meal* and am trying to make my b'milk as good as it can be by taking enzymes myself, and supplements. I'm starting with B12, Calcium, Magnesium, CLO, and selenium. I'm still learning though . . .
ETA - oh, I also take zinc too!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *BestBirths*
I just read in Andy Culter's hair assessment book that people with weak adrenals do better with grains in their diet....and most of my children and I have weak adrenals...so...we HAVE to eat grains, right? especially, occasionally the grains found in cake and cookies when we aren't on the yeast free diet
I just ordered this book too. How do you know about the adrenals? Is this from the hair elements test?

And firefaery, will you post the recipies for those on the SCD Chefs thread? I want to make something yummy for LLL meeting on Monday.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Pattyla, I also make a raw strawberry pie. I posted the recipe in H&GE a bit ago...may be pricey until strawberries are back in season though...My kids get it for birthdays and dh gets it-well-whenever he helps out ALOT! We love it. The crust is just almonds and dates, and the filling strawberries, ripe banana and dates. Super easy and very delish.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Cheesecake:
Crust: 1.5 cups soaked almonds, 1 cup soaked dates. Blend in a food processor and spread into a pie plate.

Filling: 3 cups soaked cashews, 1 cup lemon juice, 1 cup honey, 1 cup coconut oil, 1 tsp. vanilla, 1/2 cup water if needed. Blend in food processor and pour into crust. Freeze 3 hours or so. Refrigerate for about an hour before eating.

Apple crumble:
Crust: 2 cups soaked cashews, 3 frozen bananas, cinnamon, vanilla and honey. Blend and spoon into serving cups, pushing gently up the sides. Freeze.

Filling: 6 apples, vanilla, cinnamon, honey. Process 3 apples and spices. Add 3 remaining apples and pulse (should be chunky) Spread into bowls. Sprinkle with vanilla, cinnamon and serve.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Thanks for the recipes I'll have to file them for the future when we are eating raw stuff again. We are still cooking everything we eat.


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Firefaery-Can I just say YUM!

Thanks for sharing those-added to my list-always looking for something sweet and healthy!

Off to finish my 24 hour yogurt...


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

hi everyone. I am new to this subforum. My dd has been expereince dificulty pooping, poor sleep, and extreme high needs temprment for her entire 14 months. It was recently suggested to me by several people that all of these things could be related to yeast. I don't really know anything about this topic and was wondering if anyone might be able to answer a few questions for me.

How did you know yeast was the problem?
Is there a test her dr. can do to determine if this is the issue?
What are the best elimination diets for getting to the bottom and ridding you and your baby of yeast?

TIA


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Jen/Pookietooth,*

Did you ask me about anti fungals a while back? I don't think I answered... things have been crazy around here.

See this page: http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionbacteria.htm

I've been reading some interesting things about oregano oil lately, indications are it's effective against both yeast and bacteria.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nannymom*
hi everyone. I am new to this subforum. My dd has been expereince dificulty pooping, poor sleep, and extreme high needs temprment for her entire 14 months. It was recently suggested to me by several people that all of these things could be related to yeast. I don't really know anything about this topic and was wondering if anyone might be able to answer a few questions for me.

How did you know yeast was the problem?
Is there a test her dr. can do to determine if this is the issue?
What are the best elimination diets for getting to the bottom and ridding you and your baby of yeast?

TIA









Welcome!

There are several indications of yeast symptoms, see here a bit below in this section: http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionbacteria.htm#2

Red ring around anus is a common one in babes.

There are stool tests you can do, and also the OAT, Organic Acids Test which tests urine.
http://www.gsdl.com/home/assessments...ms/gastro.html
http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com...Acid-Test.html

However, mainstream doctors do not believe in them. You will have to go thru a naturopathic doctors or maybe you can do yourself thru www.directlabs.com

I can say to you with certainty, if there is intestinal problems coupled with behavioral issues, that is all the signs you need to tell you that something is wrong IMO and experience.

I think the best diet is the SCD to change intestinal flora balance and starve out the bad guys, see my post #3 in this thread for links.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
How did you know it was strong for your ds? I gave my 2 yr. old some enzymes yesterday for the first time and BOY! did she have a fussy day (and like 4 bms!)
Today was a whole different story. Good mood, good poopies.







BUT, her little bottom is red tonight. Do you think I should cut back?

That is a perfect indicator of cleaning out! DS is just very hyperactive on high proteases and gets red rings around his eyes. His sleeping was bad to begin with and it gets worse on them. Just start really slow to allow the body to get used to them.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok I did the nuts. Not sure if they got too hot or not. They came out a lot like last time when I did them in the oven. They taste cooked to me but what do I know. It certainly was a much less painful way to do it. I did it part of the time on high. I think next time I'll do it on low the whole time to keep the temp down. With the lid off it probably doesn't get much over 150 in there if that. I could still touch them with my bare hands. I just stirred every couple of hours. I think I'll soak some walnuts tonight.









Ok so I'm convinced I need to get my hair done. Anyone have the like for me again ?









I'm switching us to goat dairy for now. It tastes awful Imo but dd doesn't seem to mind. Hoping it doesn't make a difference







so I can go back to cow. Anyone have any ideas on how to make it taste less "goaty"? So far it is the uhp stuff from the grocery store.

Oh and can anyone recomend a good cake recipe?

RE: nuts
As long as you can touch with bare hands, it's the perfect temp! I'm psyched about this idea, will try it this weekend.

Hair testing info from the Autism-Mercury Yahoo group: http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html
Lab I used: www.directlabs.com Hair Elements Test

RE: goaty goat's milk
Maybe it's because it's the ultra high temperature stuff. Plus there is evidence that all ultra pasteurized milk is so devoid of nutrients it doesn't support yogurt culturing very well.

I posted our favorite cashew butter cake recipe in the SCD Chef's thread in Meal Planning forum. You can make it with any homemade nut butter (recipe halves well or makes cupcakes, too.)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShannonCC*
I have a question








Can anyone give me a run down (or a list) of die-off symptoms? Or can I PM someone my question?

Die off aka Herxheimer Reaction or Healing Crisis:

Quote:

The Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction (referred to as "Herx" often) is believed to be a reaction caused by organisms (bacteria) dying off and releasing toxins into the body faster than the body may comfortably handle it.

Symptoms

increased joint or muscle pain
headaches
chills
Heavy perspiration and night sweats
Nausea
Burning urination
Bone pain
swollen glands
bloating
constipation or diarrhea
fever (usually low grade)
hypotension (low blood pressure)
Itching, hives and rash
heart palpitations, elevated heart rate, dizziness


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Wild Oregano oil (not the same as oregano oil) is a very powerful remedy for parasites, fungal and bacterial overgrowth. It is absolutely contraindicated in pregnancy and nursing. Other mamas to whom this does not apply-it's fabulous.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
OK, couple of quick questions....

-It is safe to take grapefruit seed extract while nursing...right? (Also-does this get rid of other "things" besides yeast?)

-If I take enzymes, do I need to give my nursing 1 year old enzymes? Or would enough good stuff pass through me to her?

I'm really at a loss as to where to start with her. Her main food source right now is still me...because nearly everything we've ever given her to eat passes straight through her unchanged. She's never had normal BM poops, so I always knew something wasn't right.
We are planning on the whole family being on SCD, but financially we just can't swing it all right now.
So, any suggestions?
Thanks!

Probably re: GSE and nursing, Dr. Jay Gordon's website has a thrush protocol.

It kills good bacteria along with the yeast, so strong probiotics/yogurt given at separate times are essential. If you also have bacterial issues, and many people do with gut problems, killing off the yeast can allow the opportunistic bacteria to increase in a suppressed immune system (not enough good bugs/probiotics to take up the space). So it has been reported that GSE makes bacterial problems worse in this way.

I'm not sure about enzymes in one so young. Can you make sure her diet is SCD plus cooked fruits/veggies that are pureed to allow her gut to heal? Enzymes you take will be circulating in your bloodsteam, so yes, she should be getting some too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
Wow! on cooking grain free

....the next thing I am going to try is making yogurt with the yogourmet...and the "d-lactate" free probiotic...I want to try to make yogurt out of that too...

You can make some great things on the SCD: www.scdrecipe.com

Did you see the post, was it in Pecanbread, that said the d-lactate issue is thought not to be from probiotics but yeast/bacteria? (which are starved out on a grain free diet).

RE: weak adrenals and grains
What is the reasoning? I'm not disputing him as I have the utmost respect for Andy Cutler, but he is not a nutritionist or specialist in gut flora. I even disagree with some things Elaine Gottschall has said!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
If you do call the company, please let me know what they say.

Dr. Devin Houston is known to be available to talk with by phone www.houstonni.com


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

Thanks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Welcome!

There are several indications of yeast symptoms, see here a bit below in this section: http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionbacteria.htm#2

Red ring around anus is a common one in babes.

There are stool tests you can do, and also the OAT, Organic Acids Test which tests urine.
http://www.gsdl.com/home/assessments...ms/gastro.html
http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com...Acid-Test.html

However, mainstream doctors do not believe in them. You will have to go thru a naturopathic doctors or maybe you can do yourself thru www.directlabs.com

I can say to you with certainty, if there is intestinal problems coupled with behavioral issues, that is all the signs you need to tell you that something is wrong IMO and experience.

I think the best diet is the SCD to change intestinal flora balance and starve out the bad guys, see my post #3 in this thread for links.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Okay, I'm a whimp! I *CANNOT* stomach the CLO. OMG I tried it again today and seriously, almost lost it. I even got the Nordic Naturals *good* kind that's orange flavored. How am I supposed to do this? Can I mix it with anything to make it go down?


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Quote:

I just ordered this book too. How do you know about the adrenals? Is this from the hair elements test?
The A/M yahoo group just reported to me that everyones adrenals looked weak. They determined this from the hair test somehow. I have been looking to find more info. about adrenals right now starting with Andy's two books. I knew I had weak adrenals but I didn't know that children could have weak adrenals too.

Quote:

You can make some great things on the SCD: www.scdrecipe.com

Did you see the post, was it in Pecanbread, that said the d-lactate issue is thought not to be from probiotics but yeast/bacteria? (which are starved out on a grain free diet).

RE: weak adrenals and grains
What is the reasoning? I'm not disputing him as I have the utmost respect for Andy Cutler, but he is not a nutritionist or specialist in gut flora. I even disagree with some things Elaine Gottschall has said!
No, I didn't see the post about d-lactate being from yeast...or I don't remember because of reading overload....Ds has a distinct bacterial smell coming from him though. We didn't see any big wows from going on a yeast free diet for 2 months...but I would believe that his problem was more virus or bacteria related....very interesting that bacteria can be starved by eliminating grains. I'll go search pecan bread for more on that.

I don't know Andy Cutler's reasoning for grains for people w/ weak adrenals yet....going to find out more about this...

I think the rest of us could possibly do scd, but ds doesn't eat fruit and veges, so that would leave him with meat, fish, egg, cheese, butter, beans, nuts & honey to eat..so we would have to go off of gf/cf that we have seen real gains on, to eat cheese& butter, then there is a little matter of his egg & milk allergy...so really scd w/o milk, cheese, butter, and eggs would be only meat, fish, beans, nuts, and honey.....at that point we'd have to find a new name for that diet.......

For some reason I get the feeling ds diet will end up looking similar to the diet of John the Baptist in the wilderness (what was it? Locusts and honey) if he ever chose to go vegetarian.









the cheesecake reciepe looks yummy.....


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Quote:

Okay, I'm a whimp! I CANNOT stomach the CLO. OMG I tried it again today and seriously, almost lost it. I even got the Nordic Naturals *good* kind that's orange flavored. How am I supposed to do this? Can I mix it with anything to make it go down?
Can you put it in a capsule? or get the capsule kind? It just tastes worse when you mix it because then what you mix it with takes on the same taste and it increases the amount of nasty tasting stuff to take. We joke around in our family that you have to be a real tough chick to take the CLO, dd and I took the twinlabs (which is awful)...then went around daring ds and his friends to take some. They wouldn't, then we went around bragging about how tough we were. After a week or so, we got used to the taste. Right after we take a spoonful, we wash it down w/ water. It's Mommy Fear Factor-Home edition. When the twinlabs run out, I am only getting nordic naturals in capsules.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Busy busy day but I wanted some imput from those of you who are here and not on pecan bread (I posted this there too.)

Just wanting to run this idea past you more experienced mamas here.
Prior to scd we did a dose of motrin at bedtime and it helped dd sleep much better. But that has sugar in it so I quit that. DD is getting her 2 year molars so this is a rough time for her.

This week I started using tylenol suppositories. That helps a lot but they wear off after about 4 hours and then she is up and down for the rest of the night (doing another one at that point would be impossible). I got some adult ibuprofen. It is just double the dose that dd should have for her weight. I'm thinking about cutting it in half and crushing it and putting it into food. My only hesitation is that it does have corn starch in it. But it is such a tiny bit. Do you think that will be better than asking her to deal with the pain? We do homeopathics durring the day but they just wear off too quickly to be much help at night and dd hates to take anything after she has been asleep so that really doesn't work then.

I appreciate any insight.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

I read the enzyme stuff on bacteria....and the idea came to me...what about doing a high dose trial of peptizyde to get rid of bacteria? I still might try to do a high dose trial of virastop for the virus's.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

For the inflammation associated with teething we rub castor oil mixed with clove essential oil (both are anti-inflammatory) up the jawline and around the ears. Is the pain in her teeth/gums or in her ears specifically? What homeopathics are you using? Combinations aren't very effective and do wear off quickly. Using just one (ie, belladonna, chamomilla or pulsatilla depending on her symptoms) would likely last longer and help you through the night.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

GSE is absolutely safe, taken internally by mom OR babe (see protocol) and used topically.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
We joke around in our family that you have to be a real tough chick to take the CLO, dd and I took the twinlabs (which is awful)...then went around daring ds and his friends to take some. They wouldn't, then we went around bragging about how tough we were. After a week or so, we got used to the taste. Right after we take a spoonful, we wash it down w/ water. It's Mommy Fear Factor-Home edition. When the twinlabs run out, I am only getting nordic naturals in capsules.








: Boy is that true! Oh man, just the thought alone can make me gag now. I know it's psychological too -- reminds me of my father making me *try* liver when I was about 9 years old even though by the smell and look of it alone I knew I'd hate it.








Somebody tell me why I should do this again . . . ?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:

For the inflammation associated with teething we rub castor oil mixed with clove essential oil (both are anti-inflammatory) up the jawline and around the ears. Is the pain in her teeth/gums or in her ears specifically? What homeopathics are you using? Combinations aren't very effective and do wear off quickly. Using just one (ie, belladonna, chamomilla or pulsatilla depending on her symptoms) would likely last longer and help you through the night.
I had never heard of using the clove oil on the outside. I'll have to try that.

We have done, high potency cammommilla more times than I can count. Doesn't work. Now we are using the natura bio liquid. It seems to help, but wears off. Chamomilla is what her dr always gives us that or sepia? (I think).

Pretty much her teething symptoms are night waking needing to nurse to get back to sleep and chewing on things. Other than that she copes pretty well. I don't cope so well with being an all night pacifier though.

I hate giving the motrin and tylenol but it is the only think that has ever worked very well for her. I am always open to trying new things though.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Do you know what the potency is? Also, is she able to articulate what is is that's bothering her specifically? What is making her wake?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

The potency of which? The high potency is 200c.

She doesn't articulate anything. She just cries out untill I get her to nurse (she currently starts the night in a bed beside our bed. She usually is pretty out of her mind when she night wakes. If dh has to go to her for some reason she usually is very upset.


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Thanks for the reassurance and info everyone.









Tell me what you would do...
I am going to start up again on probiotics. (and my children via breasmilk) Then start them on it. (We all have major systemic yeast problems) Then we'll start on other anti-yeasty stuff....
now, here's the question...dd has gut issues...(last night she had a white raisin, her body actually re-hydrated it and she passed it as a grape today!







)
Would you start her on digestive enzymes first, at the same time or after working on our yeast issues? Does it matter?
And what enzymes should she take? Nothing really seems to "process" in her gut and I can't seem to make heads or tails of what she needs. (Maybe I'm just brain fogged right now...but geez I'm so confused!)


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Patty, we get raw goat's milk from a local dairy, and it's way less goaty than the Meyenberg stuff from the HFS. On their website, Grace Harbor farms, they say it has to do with how the goats are managed, and I've heard that if the male goats are with the females, the milk tastes more goaty.

Jennifer, we have major yeast issues as well. From what I understand, you can take the enzymes at the beginning of a meal and the probiotics at the end, although it might require a bit more of a separation to work. Good luck and let us know what works for you.

For a sort of ok tasting cake, try the peanut butter cake, I think there are several out there, including two on www.pecanbread.com -- I tried one that included a mashed banana, and it fell, but it was moister than one I tried that had no banana in it. There is a recipe for peanut butter frosting that is good, too, again from the pecanbread website.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

I started SCD is full swing today, and after 12 hours of being on it, I feel like sh!t. This can't be die off already right?! I've not felt this crappy since I can't remember when, and I feel crappy often. Perhaps this is the beginning of a cold or some other nasty bug? I'll wait it out and see.

Sorry to have to vent, but I needed this!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Siana*
I started SCD is full swing today, and after 12 hours of being on it, I feel like sh!t. This can't be die off already right?! I've not felt this crappy since I can't remember when, and I feel crappy often. Perhaps this is the beginning of a cold or some other nasty bug? I'll wait it out and see.
Have you taken any enzymes? They can have a pretty immediate effect (as I found out the other day only a couple of hours after giving them to my 2-yr. old.)


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:

I started SCD is full swing today, and after 12 hours of being on it, I feel like sh!t. This can't be die off already right?! I've not felt this crappy since I can't remember when, and I feel crappy often. Perhaps this is the beginning of a cold or some other nasty bug? I'll wait it out and see.
I started us all on scd at dinner time on a Sunday night. By Monday noon I was miserable and had a very bad yeast rash to boot! I seemed to be hit the hardest of all of us. Tuesday I got some suppliments from my chiro to support my gal bladder and liver. I felt much better after starting to take those. It can be die off this quickly. Hang in there, it will pass sooner or later.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

I have been lurking here and have a question about yeast. I read above about some of the tests that can be done. My 12mo has recurrent problems w/ diaper rash but it is usually easy to clear up. He has a the red ring but not all of the time. My ped thought about yeast and did a culture which was negative. Is that an accurate test? I don't necessarily suspect yeast (esp. since it clears up easily-I think it is more specific food related) but now the mention about sleep issues has me wondering. He wakes every 1-2 hours a night. He does nurse back to sleep easily. I am thinking it is more out of habit rather than due to a health issue but I am just trying to rule everything out. So, any thoughts about that culture we did?
Thanks mamas. Boy is this all overwhelming!


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

I was so frustrated last night that I posted this over in NT's thread-oops!
Feeling Frustrated!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK-a bit of background here:

I started reading this forum over a month ago, read the books and really truly think my family needs SCD!

My problem is implementing it on our budget. We are a family of 3 adults (a foreign exchange student-a very hungry foreign exchange student) and four children-11, 9, 5, 2.

We have been doing SCD now for 11 days-feel great-see some changes in the kids-but I am running out of money! My DH and I were at our local Co-op store and he said "We would be better off if we just ate like everybody else does." I am not going back-we were grains at every meal-all organic-all homemade breads and granola, etc., but still too much grain!

We are doing tons of vegetables-frozen organic because that is what we have available now-but we go through two pounds at a meal-plus my kids love veggies in between to snack on as well. Not to mention the almonds-yikes $11-14/pound! We go through pounds and pounds of apples,oranges, grapes. My kids are asking for more variety-but I am out of affordable options, I feel.

Help! Am I missing something here? Thanks you all for any advice!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *firefaery*
For the inflammation associated with teething we rub castor oil mixed with clove essential oil (both are anti-inflammatory) up the jawline and around the ears. Is the pain in her teeth/gums or in her ears specifically? What homeopathics are you using? Combinations aren't very effective and do wear off quickly. Using just one (ie, belladonna, chamomilla or pulsatilla depending on her symptoms) would likely last longer and help you through the night.
faery, where do you get your clove essential oil? BOTH dds are teething right now. Thanks.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I need a new food for dd2. She's been eating bananas, pears and zucchini (these she tolerates well). Lately she doesn't want zucchini anymore and I know pears and bananas are yeast feeders & I'm beginning to suspect a yeast problem.

She's highly reactive to chicken and I really don't want to do any meat yet. She's also reactive to salicylates (though does okay w/No Fenol).

So . . . I'm thinking of introducing either carrots or peas. Which one would you all suggest? Or can you think of something *safer*?

BTW, still waiting on IgE test results which could take a couple of weeks . . .

Thanks for any input!


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2zsel*
Not to mention the almonds-yikes $11-14/pound!

Jane suggested using flours from Digestive Wellness.
Their almond flour is $6.99/lb. (non-organic)

We too have been very heavy on grains in the past. My DP calls them a filler since in effect they really do 'stretch' out a meal. The way I'm going to make it financially feasible is to buy in bulk (raw milk, eggs, honey, direct from the farms, bulk almond flour and in summer, bulk veggies). Our co-op here is so expensive ($8/week service charge), that I'd rather spend that money driving out to the farms, get a better deal, and see what farming practices are used first hand.

It's great that you're doing frozen vegetables. Can't get cheaper this time of year (in Canada anyway). Also just stick to fruits that are in season in the US since they are likely to be cheaper than those produced elsewhere. As for meat, I suspect we're going to be eating canned salmon quite often -- it's very affordable for us.

HTH


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Annikate and Pattyla, thank you so much for the support. I needed that last night









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Have you taken any enzymes? They can have a pretty immediate effect (as I found out the other day only a couple of hours after giving them to my 2-yr. old.)

Haven't got in to enzymes yet. I wish someone could just tell me what to take with regards to those, because the last time I skimmed through some of the info. on http://www.enzymestuff.com/, it seemed like gobbledy-****









Pattyla, I think it's time I got some of that clay too, just to have on hand, both for myself and DS









Update: My threshold for discomfort must be really low. If I thought yesterday was bad, this morning I felt TERRIBLE!







:







As usual I had cramps just before I got up to have a BM, but they were debilitating. I got a bucket ready to heave since I didn't really know what to expect (though my temp. was normal -- using FAM so I check every morn. anyway). After finally getting enough strength, I had the BM, and what a relief (sorry TMI







)

The kids and I crashed on the couch and ate some apple cider jelly that I accedentally froze last night (i'm telling ya, I was out of it!). Now I feel almost normal, though very tired. Yeah for die-off









Thanks again for the support


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
So . . . I'm thinking of introducing either carrots or peas. Which one would you all suggest? Or can you think of something *safer*?

Carrots are the only vegetable included in the introductory SCD. They are included in the chicken soup recipe, well cooked and pureed. Do you think your DD would like pureed carrots?

With peas, I think that perhaps the skins would be more difficult to digest at this point, unless you use a foley mill (with a fine strainer) to remove all of them? Not sure how digestible the 'meat' of the peas is otherwise.

You know what, I'm not much help







Hopefully someone who knows more than me will pick this up and give you some info. you can actually work with!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Siana*
Carrots are the only vegetable included in the introductory SCD. They are included in the chicken soup recipe, well cooked and pureed. Do you think your DD would like pureed carrots?

With peas, I think that perhaps the skins would be more difficult to digest at this point, unless you use a foley mill (with a fine strainer) to remove all of them? Not sure how digestible the 'meat' of the peas is otherwise.

You know what, I'm not much help Hopefully someone who knows more than me will pick this up and give you some info. you can actually work with!








That does help! Thanks. I forgot about carrots being on the intro. diet. (I'm so at a loss for dd that I'm grasping for straws really. Not to mention the fact that I'm very sleep deprived and not thinking straight either!


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I'm very sleep deprived and not thinking straight either!









Right there with you


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

OMG-I am already spending an extra $150 a week eating gf/cf....what would happen to the food bill if our family of 9 eliminated grains!!!

I am thinking about it though. I'll watch how you guys do it







:


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
OMG-I am already spending an extra $150 a week eating gf/cf....what would happen to the food bill if our family of 9 eliminated grains!!!

Hi all, I haven't been around for awhile. But I am reading Karen DeFelice's book Enzymes for Autism and other Neurological Conditions. It is helping me understand all these digestive issues much better than Breaking the Vicious Cycle. I read Breaking the Vicious Cycle, but it did not convince me to go on the SCD. But Karen DeFelice is convincing me that enzymes are very important! I was already taking some enzymes prescribed by my nutritionist, but since I have started reading this book I am taking them more regularly and I am really seeing a positive effect in myself. I have way more energy and I am not eliminating ANY foods!

The way she explains it, if you have leaky gut issues, and you go on any kind of elimination diet, including the GF/CF diet, you will not heal your gut and usually you will end up having to eliminate more foods because the "safe" foods you are eating will leak through and your body will get sensitized to them, causing "allergic" reactions, behavioral issues, etc.

Enzymes, if given with a meal, help digest the food that is eaten so that big molecules of food don't leak through (as much) and cause as many problems. Enzymes given at times other than meal time will help break down yeast, bacteria, etc and therefore will help with gut healing.

Also, if one takes enzymes, all the supplements one uses likely will need to be decreased because both the supplement pills and the food one eats will be better digested and therefore, more bio-available to the body, so using enzymes can end up saving one money rather than costing more.

I went back for a second live blood analysis with my nutritionist. I still had some yeast, but it was a lot better, despite having only been on the yeast diet faithfully about a week out of the month I was supposed to be on it. She said I should eventually be able to get rid of the yeast even without doing the diet. I gave her the SCD diet book to read so I will be interested to hear what she thinks about it-BUT in the meantime I'm sticking to my enzymes and trying to relax. She said the more you stress out about food (or anything) the worse your digestion will be because your digestive system basically shuts down under stress. (think about the "flight or fight" response-blood is shunted away from the digestive organs to the muscles) So I'm not stressing if I need to eat a little chocolate, although my cravings are a lot better with the magnesium and trace minerals I am taking.

By the way, another thing that is important in healing any organ of the body is getting enough sleep-which is hard when you co-sleep and night nurse! (My dd is getting her 2 yr molars too, and she can get kinda frantic at night) But what really helps is me taking 200-300 mg magnesium before I go to bed and drinking camomile tea-both of which go thru the breastmilk.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Does yogurt made w/coconut milk have to cultivate for 24 hours or can you use it sooner?


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I cultivate it for 24 hrs or more depending on temp just to make sure I've given the bacteria room to grow and breed


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Word of caution: Chamomile is in the ragweed family and is *highly* allergenic on it's own.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

I'm going to be broke with all the supplements that I am and going to be taking:

Cod Liver oil
Sodium Ascorbate
Bioflavonoids
Magnesium?
Ferrum Phos.
Pascalite clay
Vitamin B complex?
Enzymes

Am I missing any?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Just wanted to chime in on one way to reduce cost. According to Nourishing Traditions if you are making soup with a good bone broth you need less protein to get the same benefit since it helps you digest it. I've been making chicken broth a couple of times a week lately and it really isn't difficult.

Do you have a costco nearby? They have much cheaper nuts than you have been paying. Soon it will be summer and you will also be able to get veggies cheaper at farmers markets. You could probably go ahead and start some greens now (not sure where you live, but I'm needing to do that). They are easy to grow.

When things are in season get them cheap and then preserve them for when they aren't. If there is a farm near you, you may be able to buy a side of beef much cheaper than the individual cuts. Probably the first one's savings will pay for the chest freezer to keep it in.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I just wanted to post this link here to help others understand what enzyme to use when and why. As I stated before (for whatever reason), I cannot get my head around which to use and why. This page totally cleared it up for me, from the enzymestuff page.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Is this recipe SCD legal??? Since, I have never ever in my life cooked a chicken, I'm looking for recipes. Whadda you think? (Oh, my book is in the bedroom w/the sleeping boys)

http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/re...friendly/15413


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

It is legal if you use olive oil or butter. Margerine isn't.

That looks yummy but more complicated that I usually go cooking a chicken.

I have an awesome recipe for chicken that always comes out fantastic.

1 chicken
1 lemon
1 tbsp paprika
2 tbsp salt
1 cup water

rub chicken all over with salt then squeeze lemon over chicken and put halves inside. Rub paprika all over outside of chicken. Put it into the roasting pan and pour the cup of water over the whole thing. Put it in a 300 degree oven for 3 hours. Baste every 30-45 min. (although I have forgotten this step and it still came out very good). Thats it. I think it is supposed to sit before carving but that is true about any chicken recipe.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok so I tried the 1/2 a motrin crushed up last night. Bedtime was a nightmare. Not sure if it was that, the pork at dinner (first time since scd), the roasted peppers at dinner, or perhaps the food had more seasoning on it than the s&p we were told it had. I didn't feel good either and I just ate veggies.

It was also a b-day party and very exciting and dd usually needs 3 hours to calm down after being out to go to sleep. We got home at 7:30 ish. She usually is asleep arround 9. Can you do the math and figure out when she went to sleep???

Tonight we did a supository (my weird kid likes them and begs for them. She also is giving them to her stuffed animals







) Bedtime wasn't too bad.

So I've been getting my enzymes at whole foods. It is nice to get them local but they are expensive!!! I need a better source. I also need some ideas on how to get them into dd. Is it ok to put them on her food? They are bitter tasting she she won't take them in water but juice covers up the taste pretty easily. Is that ok?

I'm not sure if I'm having another die off here or a mistake or what. I'm not feeling so hot. I'm also feeling like I have already ovulated but it doesn't look like I have. Is anyone else charting? Has scd done anything to your cycles? I'm hopeful it will help mine. It sure helped out with af last month. Of course last month I didn't have the "normal" bb tenderness from O to af, just one day of it right before af and here I am, I havent' even o'd yet and I'm having it now.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Patty,
I always sprinkle the enzymes on my food and my dd's too. It dissolves into the food for the most part and hides some of the taste. It also makes the food soft (which is a plus for my little dd.) I know they're awful in liquid!

Roasted peppers would be terrible for me! Perhaps that's what's making you feel yucky. I do know that I had another die off around week 4 too.

What kind of suppository are you talking about? Just curious b/c I've had to give my dd1 suppositories for constipation more times than I like but since starting her on the enzymes too she's been going regularly without any stool softener or suppositories or anything.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

The supositories are tylenol ones.

Could have been the peppers. I rarely eat them but they tasted really good to me and dd ate a ton of them.

Last night was better so whatever it was has worked out of her system somewhat.


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## Karry (Apr 10, 2002)

Hi. I've been following this thread and finally got the books Breaking the Viscious Cycle and Enzymes for Digestive Health and Nutritional Wealth. I'm really thinking that ds has a leaky gut and this is why he has been underweight for so long. I've always felt like he just wasn't absorbing everything he was eating. He also has sensory issues and usually has a grumpy personality.

I'm thinking of trying enzymes first to see if they improve his absorption and he will start to gain weight. I don't see how I can get a 4 yo to follow SCD right now. He eats very few things as it is and a lot of them are not allowed on SCD. So should I start with Peptizyde and Zyme Prime or something else? Are these available at a health food store or only online?

Do I need to talk to his doctor about starting enzymes? He sees a ped GI and we actually have an appt. tomorrow to see if he's gained and where he is now on the growth chart.

Thanks.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

I just finished reading through the thread... what a lot of info! I'm overwhelmed and confused, not surprisingly.

I found out about this through the NT thread... my youngest has eczema, so that has started me doing more research in this area. None of us have very (apparent) extreme digestion issues... Space Man does tend towards soft stools, while Cat King occasionally (2-4 times a year?) gets constipated. Cuddlemonster is still largely breastfed. I have to admit, I always thought it was normal for little ones to have undigested foods in their stools (like under 2 yrs old), I just figured their bodies were still learning how to digest them & they were getting most of their nutrition from milk. Cuddlemonster still gets recognizable bits... mostly (cooked, even) veggies.

I'm currently bf and pg. I suspect yeast is a problem for me... I have always had a huge sweet tooth. I have been thinking about doing something like the SCD (haven't read the book). My biggest worry is die off and toxins -- I worry about giving them to the babies I'm nourishing, and I'm worried about how my mood will be affected by the die off. I'm here alone all day with the kids... dh is currently busy working a new job & commuting back to our old house to fix it up for selling. Can you take this *too* slowly? Also, is there a way to do it without being grain free? I'm worried that if I restrict too many foods, I will get overwhelmed and give up. What about sourdough? Or unleavened breads made with bulgur flour? Although, if I plan really well, and get well stocked up before I begin, I might be able to go grain-free for a while. I actually don't eat a lot of grains right now anyway -- I'm happy to have my eggs and cortido in the morning without any toast, and my soup without bread... it's just that bread is such a handy convenience food... Does this tribe have a thread in meal planning? I'm also taking notes on the ways to sop up toxins, thank you to all who are putting their info and experiences out there.

I'm also quite interested in enzymes. They are something that caught my attention in NT, but I felt that she didn't adequately discuss them. I am slowly sorting through the info on the enzyme site that keeps getting posted here -- I should just hook up the printer so I can read it all away from the computer & let the kids play here so they don't realize I'm occupied














I have a question about this, from http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionbacteria.htm#2 :

Quote:

Strong proteases can impact bacteria killing them off. While No-Fenol can be quite helpful with bacteria and colon problems, the die-off from No-Fenol is not nearly as pronounced as No-Fenol on yeast. No-Fenol contains cellulases which act on yeast but not bacteria. Yeast is composed of proteins and celluloses (much more cellulases involved).
So, are they saying that No-Fenol is made with the intention of killing yeasts, but also happens to work somewhat on bacteria? It contains both proteases and cellulases, which both work on yeast, and proteases also work on bacteria? And are they saying if you use No-Fenol and have a mild die-off, your problem is bacteria, but if you have a strong die-off, your problem is yeast? Or am I totally misunderstanding everything?

While I'm sorting this all out and trying to find an affordable source, are there foods which naturally contain enzymes? We just moved away from our source of raw dairy







Hmmm, is soaking the nuts part of activating the enzymes in them? I need to pull ot NT again...

I'm thinking that before I restrict too many foods, I'll work on getting probiotics back into our diet... properly made yoghurt... lacto-fermented veggies (though I seem to be the only one who likes them)... Oh, how do lacto-fermented beverages tie in to this diet? Does the l-fing digest all of those sugars? I think perhaps having some of those for the kids would be a good way to introduce some "treats" while we're eliminating refined sugars/starches. Eating more nuts should help too -- the kids love things like trail mix, but I've always restrictied it because nuts are expensive, and I tried soaking/dehydrating once and it was a disaster







but I'll try again!

Sorry, this was all probably disjointed and rambly... seems to be how everything I type lately comes out! Pregnancy brain strikes again...


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

sarahariz-thanks for your response-I have that book as well, just need to sit with it for awhile. I think one of my faults is jumping in with both feet instead of moving a bit slowly-just anxious for results...

Also, thanks Sianaand Pattyla of you that had suggestions for cost savings-my biggest ?hang up? is that I want everything organic and we all know what that does to the budget!

Has anyone read the No Grain Diet by Mercola? Opinions-Input?

Thanks-I appreciate having this place to come to vent and learn!


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Just wanted to post that we started the Maker's Diet today. I think my HSO's are at the post office, but won't be able to get there today. I'm kind of glad though because baby's cheeks got really red today and if I had given him the HSO's this morning, I would have thought that the redness was an effect thereof.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brisen*

I found out about this through the NT thread... my youngest has eczema, so that has started me doing more research in this area. None of us have very (apparent) extreme digestion issues... Space Man does tend towards soft stools, while Cat King occasionally (2-4 times a year?) gets constipated. Cuddlemonster is still largely breastfed. I have to admit, I always thought it was normal for little ones to have undigested foods in their stools (like under 2 yrs old), I just figured their bodies were still learning how to digest them & they were getting most of their nutrition from milk. Cuddlemonster still gets recognizable bits... mostly (cooked, even) veggies.

I'm currently bf and pg. I suspect yeast is a problem for me... I have always had a huge sweet tooth. I have been thinking about doing something like the SCD (haven't read the book). My biggest worry is die off and toxins -- I worry about giving them to the babies I'm nourishing, and I'm worried about how my mood will be affected by the die off. I'm here alone all day with the kids... dh is currently busy working a new job & commuting back to our old house to fix it up for selling. Can you take this *too* slowly? Also, is there a way to do it without being grain free? I'm worried that if I restrict too many foods, I will get overwhelmed and give up. What about sourdough? Or unleavened breads made with bulgur flour? Although, if I plan really well, and get well stocked up before I begin, I might be able to go grain-free for a while. I actually don't eat a lot of grains right now anyway -- I'm happy to have my eggs and cortido in the morning without any toast, and my soup without bread... it's just that bread is such a handy convenience food... Does this tribe have a thread in meal planning? I'm also taking notes on the ways to sop up toxins, thank you to all who are putting their info and experiences out there.


Hi Brisen. I'm here because of ds's eczema too. I can only speak for the plan we are currently on, the Maker's Diet. It has 3 phases. You can start at any phase. The first is really restrictive, but the third is pretty much the same as NT with a few minor differences. It is supposed to help with illness in general, as with other similar plans, the gut is where healing needs to happen for us to get better. You determine the phase that you start at based on your own health. We are starting at Phase 1 because I really want to clean up our systems and experience healing. Rubin (the author) does recommend some supplements also based on your health. We've been taking CLO for a long time, so will stick with it, but are also adding Primal Defense which is a probiotic/enzyme supplement. I didn't feel that, based on our already pretty healthy diet, that we really needed any of the other supplements. Hth outline one option anyways!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Hibou- I just read the makers diet and am very intrigued by hso's where did you get yours?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Busy busy day but I wanted some imput from those of you who are here and not on pecan bread (I posted this there too.)

Just wanting to run this idea past you more experienced mamas here.
Prior to scd we did a dose of motrin at bedtime and it helped dd sleep much better. But that has sugar in it so I quit that. DD is getting her 2 year molars so this is a rough time for her.

This week I started using tylenol suppositories. That helps a lot but they wear off after about 4 hours and then she is up and down for the rest of the night (doing another one at that point would be impossible). I got some adult ibuprofen. It is just double the dose that dd should have for her weight. I'm thinking about cutting it in half and crushing it and putting it into food. My only hesitation is that it does have corn starch in it. But it is such a tiny bit. Do you think that will be better than asking her to deal with the pain? We do homeopathics durring the day but they just wear off too quickly to be much help at night and dd hates to take anything after she has been asleep so that really doesn't work then.

I appreciate any insight.

There's a thread around here somewhere with lots of info from MT "Why Tylenol is Bad" or something like that.

NSAIDS, both Tylenol and Advil, really tear up the gut lining. Also inhibit detoxification.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
I read the enzyme stuff on bacteria....and the idea came to me...what about doing a high dose trial of peptizyde to get rid of bacteria? I still might try to do a high dose trial of virastop for the virus's.

Yes, there is info about high proteases like Peptizyde for bacterial issues. Since Virastop is also high protease I don't know if that is overkill or what. But of course isnt' that VS protocol up to something like 20 capsules a day







.

Although I think Karen's younger son still didn't respond to high proteases. She had to use collodial silver for 10 days.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
Thanks for the reassurance and info everyone.








Tell me what you would do...
I am going to start up again on probiotics. (and my children via breasmilk) Then start them on it. (We all have major systemic yeast problems) Then we'll start on other anti-yeasty stuff....
now, here's the question...dd has gut issues...(last night she had a white raisin, her body actually re-hydrated it and she passed it as a grape today!







)
Would you start her on digestive enzymes first, at the same time or after working on our yeast issues? Does it matter?
And what enzymes should she take? Nothing really seems to "process" in her gut and I can't seem to make heads or tails of what she needs. (Maybe I'm just brain fogged right now...but geez I'm so confused!)

Yes, start enzymes, what else are you doing for yeast? Enzymes will work on yeast, especially high cellulases like Houston's No Fenol or Enzymedica's Candidase, they will pop the outer shell of the yeast cell. Also cellulases break down fibers in fruits and veggies. However an all around product like Houston's Zyme Prime or Enzymedica's V-gest or Digest Gold will help all foods too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
I have been lurking here and have a question about yeast. I read above about some of the tests that can be done. My 12mo has recurrent problems w/ diaper rash but it is usually easy to clear up. He has a the red ring but not all of the time. My ped thought about yeast and did a culture which was negative. Is that an accurate test? I don't necessarily suspect yeast (esp. since it clears up easily-I think it is more specific food related) but now the mention about sleep issues has me wondering. He wakes every 1-2 hours a night. He does nurse back to sleep easily. I am thinking it is more out of habit rather than due to a health issue but I am just trying to rule everything out. So, any thoughts about that culture we did?
Thanks mamas. Boy is this all overwhelming!

What are his poops like? It could be bacterial. Was it a swab culture from outside? I would go with more digestive cues to suspect yeast. That amount of nightwaking at his age means something I think. And the diaper issues pretty much tell you something digestive is going on too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2zsel*
I started reading this forum over a month ago, read the books and really truly think my family needs SCD!

My problem is implementing it on our budget. We are a family of 3 adults (a foreign exchange student-a very hungry foreign exchange student) and four children-11, 9, 5, 2.

We have been doing SCD now for 11 days-feel great-see some changes in the kids-but I am running out of money! My DH and I were at our local Co-op store and he said "We would be better off if we just ate like everybody else does." I am not going back-we were grains at every meal-all organic-all homemade breads and granola, etc., but still too much grain!

We are doing tons of vegetables-frozen organic because that is what we have available now-but we go through two pounds at a meal-plus my kids love veggies in between to snack on as well. Not to mention the almonds-yikes $11-14/pound! We go through pounds and pounds of apples,oranges, grapes. My kids are asking for more variety-but I am out of affordable options, I feel.

That's hard.







We are spending a mint at our house too. But really we were at a point we had no other choice, suffer or change diet. And really there is not even an option with my DS, he just cannot be on a regular diet at all.

Try to investigate buying clubs in your area. I just found one www.unitedbuyingclubs.com

If you do go back to grains what if you try everything soaked according to NT to be easier to digest? Fermented veggies, lots of yogurt, bone broths.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I need a new food for dd2. She's been eating bananas, pears and zucchini (these she tolerates well). Lately she doesn't want zucchini anymore and I know pears and bananas are yeast feeders & I'm beginning to suspect a yeast problem.

She's highly reactive to chicken and I really don't want to do any meat yet. She's also reactive to salicylates (though does okay w/No Fenol).

So . . . I'm thinking of introducing either carrots or peas. Which one would you all suggest? Or can you think of something *safer*?

BTW, still waiting on IgE test results which could take a couple of weeks . . .

Thanks for any input!

Well steamed until very soft green beans, I like the frozen organic, very easy. Raw ripe avocado.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I get it that tylenol isn't the best thing for her. However not sleeping isn't either. We all need some sleep. With tylenol at bedtime she sleeps one 4 hour strech. W/o it she sleeps on 2 hour stretch and then in either case is up and down the rest of the night. I can't function on that little sleep for weeks on end. When she isn't teething she nurses every 2 hours. When she is she rarely unlatches all night long. She has been working on these molars since christmas.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Patty,

Wisteria sounds like a carbon copy of my DS... the taking 3 hrs to calm down. It's so much better now. He actually only takes 45 min now which is HUGE. I used to lose my mind b/c it would take 1.5 hours or more to get him down for a nap he so desperately needed and then to have to face bedtime too. And nightwaking. It's a wonder I'm still here let me tell you!!

I made that mistake re: NSAIDS and teething too thinking it was pain but it really was his central nervous and digestive system. Is she on CLO, that's must for our kind of kids. Magnesium is a great suggestion too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Patty,

Hey we cross posted... I know, trust me. Lack of sleep makes you crazy.

Our kids are just minutely sensitive to pain. It's definately a sensory integration issue that's coupled with the digestive and nervous system in my DS. Because I see it frequently with other things, and it gets worse when other things are worse.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

to Sarah








to Brisen and Hibou,

I'll have lots to say... tomorrow!


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Quote:

Hibou- I just read the makers diet and am very intrigued by hso's where did you get yours?
I bought them from a Canadian online source called Nature's Nutrition Store. It was the best price I could find on this side of the border. Didn't want to buy U.S. and get dinged with taxes at the border. I am quite intrigued by them too. I dug around for a couple days and read everything I could about them before I decided to buy them, so I hope they are all they're cracked up to be!! They're supposed to be fine for kids and pets too, which is good because I plan to give them to my ds's.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Just wanted to post something from another list, about how nut flour ground down into nut butter changes in volume: 1.5 C of almond flour makes 1/2 C almond butter in food processor -- this is from the scdrecipe_creators yahoo group. I would imagine that 1 cup of nuts would make a lot less nut flour, as well. Makes me wonder about the recipe for muffins in the BTVC book, because it has you grind the nuts and leave them in the food processor -- if you grind 2 1/2 cups of nuts, I would imagine it would make a lot less than 2 1/2 cups of nut flour, particularly if you grind it down a lot. What do you ladies think? I'm just wondering whether I've been doing it wrong all this time!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I do have dd taking clo. In fact I have to limit her on it. She would take 10 a day if I let her. (and has on a couple of occasions when she got ahold of them and I didn't know) She has always craved it. Anyone know what the limit for a kid her age with her issues might be? I'm not sure if I'm giving her too little or too much or what.

I'm so chicken to give her the wrong thing on this diet now. What kind of magnesium can I give her? Where can I find it? She has currently decided that anything I put into a drink is yucky. She also didn't like it when I mixed some enzymes into her applesauce (I tasted it and couldn't taste a thing). Oh and she is now refusing the goat yougart. Not sure if it is a yougart thing or a goat thing. If I give her and me an enzyme first could I just switch back to cows yougart?

I'm reading and reading this enzyme stuff and not feeling terribly clear about it yet. I think dh's issue is bacteria. (Sometimes he just stinks really, really bad) We are definatly yeast but also celiac. I also am unsure how much to be trying to give dd and myself. I've got the enzymedica digest gold, candidase and virastop as well as mucostop (thought that might help dd with her mucus but I think quitting cow did that instead). Is another brand cheaper? I looked some on line and the enzymedica stuff is just as cheap at whole foods as the online discount places I have checked so far. (ie not very) This is assuming that I can figure out a reliable way to get her to take it.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

I was reading stuff at that enzyme site (great site, btw, thank you to those who have been posting links to it!), and it mentioned white tongue as a symptom of yeast. My tongue is always white. I googled it this morning, and what I read says it is indicative of systemic yeast. It also mentioned coughing up white curds as being indicative of yeast in the esophagus -- I get that, too. Arg. On the one hand, I'm glad to have a more definite, visible symptom that tells me yeast is a problem... on the other hand...







:

This same site also mentioned ringing of ears as a symptom... I get that, as well as *maddeningly* itchy ears, it feels like way deep down. Anyone know if these are related? I do get some dust/pollen allergies (I'm so glad we moved to a place with no carpets! I would get tightness and itching on my neck, my back, my chest, the roof of my mouth, if I tried to clean thoroughly... I actually found that leaving the dust alone bothered me the least







).

I also bought some stuff (online) yesterday... clo, which I've been meaning to get for a long time, and as I was ordering, I noticed they had enzymes. I felt rather lost, so I bought a smaller bottle of something that seemed to have a lot in it... I got twinlab super enzymes. Are they good to start on? It says to take the caps with meals, but I read that to combat yeast, you should take the enzymes for that between meals, so they don't spend their time on food. Should I take them at both times? Something different for between meals? And do I just give less to the kids?


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Quote:

Are they good to start on?
The only issue I noticed was the papain. My ds cannot tolerate papain, so he takes enzymes w/o it. Houstons are the only ones that have successfully replaced a gluten and casein free diet, but I do not know about the SCD.

Quote:

It says to take the caps with meals, but I read that to combat yeast, you should take the enzymes for that between meals, so they don't spend their time on food. Should I take them at both times? Something different for between meals? And do I just give less to the kids?
Depends on what you are using them for. If you take enzymes with meals, the enzymes will go after helping digest the food, and if you take them away from meals, they will go after the yeast/bacteria/virus depending on the enzyme. You can take them at both times. Ds takes candex, virastop, and ole(olive leaf extract) in between meals. He takes the trio of houstons enzymes (afp peptizyde, zyme prime, and no phenol) with meals. I think taking enzymes in between meals and with meals is something I would do, and plan to try in the future. As far as dosage, I think it is based on amount of food, not size of the person, so there is a certain amount of enzyme to be taken with the average size meal. In between meal dosage for yeast or other issues, I have heard people taking huge amounts (people with cancer and fibromyalgia taking 50 caps a day between meals), children with autism taking 20 capsules a day between meals. But this was with another enzyme product called Virastop. I don't know about the dosage between meals with the one you are taking. Up the dose slowly, like one cap a day per week is the general rule for in between meals from what I've heard.

Ds has the ear ringing to...I don't know if it is related. He hasn't gotten any relief from the ringing yet with what we have done so far.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks, Bestbirths. I did wonder if it was a good idea to start off with one that was a mix -- if anyone doesn't tolerate it well, it would be hard to know what was the problem.

I think we would be taking the enzymes both for digestion and for yeast elimination. I'm going to sit down and figure out what is best for the yeast, and see what I can get (I'm in Canada), and start experimenting.

Wow, 20 caps a day! That's a lot! The bottle I bought only has 50.

Hmmm, so this is something I'm still not quite clear on... I'm worried about cutting too much out of our diets because I'm pg and nursing and tired and lazy







, and I'm worried that I'll just give up if there's nothing I can eat; on the other hand, if I want to actually get rid of the yeast, I don't want to be doing not enough work and get no results, if that makes sense. You said that Houstons replaced a gluten free, casein free diet... So if I find enzymes that work well for us, can I avoid cutting out too much? That's probably a very broad question with many answers depending on the situation


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Good news Brisen! We can get Houston Nutraceuticals products from this site in Montreal:
http://www.spectrumsupplements.com/

This site was linked to from Houston Nutraceuticals: https://host28.websitesource.com/hou.../merchant.mvc?


----------



## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks for the links, Siana!







:


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I have had ringing in my ears as long as I can remember, and wonder if I was born with yeast, just like my ds. I have at times coughed up white curds, too, that were in my tonsils. And my tongue often has a thin white coat on it. Wow! Well, SCD by itself hasn't done it, I'm thinking stronger enzymes, maybe a mild antifungal. Anyone know which antifungals are both SCD legal and allowed if you're doing homeopathy? (I know Pau d'arco is SCD illegal, and also antidotes homeopathy, for example).
Karry, let us know what the GI doc says about enzymes -- they're pretty alternative, but it would be nice to see what an MD says about them.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

What do you all think of this for my 11 mo. old dd?
Do you think this, combined with enzymes we're already doing will be too much? (I don't do all 3 Houstons every time - - it depends on what she's eating.)
I'd love to hear your opinions!








http://www.betterforbabies.com/vitamineralgreen.html

ETA: I need a good probiotic for dd. Do you also think this has enough of that? Or should I get another one? I suspect bacteria/viral issues based on her behavior. Thanks.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*







That does help! Thanks. I forgot about carrots being on the intro. diet. (I'm so at a loss for dd that I'm grasping for straws really. Not to mention the fact that I'm very sleep deprived and not thinking straight either!









Butternut squash too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Patty,

DS gets enzymes, minerals, vitamin C, and cod liver oil in 2 oz pineapple juice (or homemade lemonade) and 2 oz water, this method works well for us.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Just wanted to post something from another list, about how nut flour ground down into nut butter changes in volume: 1.5 C of almond flour makes 1/2 C almond butter in food processor -- this is from the scdrecipe_creators yahoo group. I would imagine that 1 cup of nuts would make a lot less nut flour, as well. Makes me wonder about the recipe for muffins in the BTVC book, because it has you grind the nuts and leave them in the food processor -- if you grind 2 1/2 cups of nuts, I would imagine it would make a lot less than 2 1/2 cups of nut flour, particularly if you grind it down a lot. What do you ladies think? I'm just wondering whether I've been doing it wrong all this time!

I've always used 2 1/2 cups of nut flour and my muffins never fail!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I do have dd taking clo. In fact I have to limit her on it. She would take 10 a day if I let her. (and has on a couple of occasions when she got ahold of them and I didn't know) She has always craved it. Anyone know what the limit for a kid her age with her issues might be? I'm not sure if I'm giving her too little or too much or what.

I'm so chicken to give her the wrong thing on this diet now. What kind of magnesium can I give her? Where can I find it? She has currently decided that anything I put into a drink is yucky. She also didn't like it when I mixed some enzymes into her applesauce (I tasted it and couldn't taste a thing). Oh and she is now refusing the goat yougart. Not sure if it is a yougart thing or a goat thing. If I give her and me an enzyme first could I just switch back to cows yougart?

I'm reading and reading this enzyme stuff and not feeling terribly clear about it yet. I think dh's issue is bacteria. (Sometimes he just stinks really, really bad) We are definatly yeast but also celiac. I also am unsure how much to be trying to give dd and myself. I've got the enzymedica digest gold, candidase and virastop as well as mucostop (thought that might help dd with her mucus but I think quitting cow did that instead). Is another brand cheaper? I looked some on line and the enzymedica stuff is just as cheap at whole foods as the online discount places I have checked so far. (ie not very) This is assuming that I can figure out a reliable way to get her to take it.

Not sure what the equiv. is in capsules, but DS gets 1 tsp CLO.

Go to www.fatwallet.com forums, search for Official Vitamin Shoppe thread. Click on a link to V.S. and it will be a VIP site with amazing discounts. (way better than just going to vitaminshoppe.com.) Plus you can use the coupons posted there too.

www.iherb.com also has good prices and service. Whole Foods prices are ridiculous.

I would start with the Digest Gold. But go slow, this is very strong, like 2-3x higher strength than a regular all around capsule. One you are up to one whole capsule with every meal and snack, start the Candidase or Virastop between meals. Are the ingredients of Mucustop similar to the Virastop? I thought it was high protease as well.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Karry*
Hi. I've been following this thread and finally got the books Breaking the Viscious Cycle and Enzymes for Digestive Health and Nutritional Wealth. I'm really thinking that ds has a leaky gut and this is why he has been underweight for so long. I've always felt like he just wasn't absorbing everything he was eating. He also has sensory issues and usually has a grumpy personality.

I'm thinking of trying enzymes first to see if they improve his absorption and he will start to gain weight. I don't see how I can get a 4 yo to follow SCD right now. He eats very few things as it is and a lot of them are not allowed on SCD. So should I start with Peptizyde and Zyme Prime or something else? Are these available at a health food store or only online?

Do I need to talk to his doctor about starting enzymes? He sees a ped GI and we actually have an appt. tomorrow to see if he's gained and where he is now on the growth chart.

Thanks.



















How did dr. appt go? Enzymes are natural and very safe... used for cystic fibrosis patients for example. More info in book. I think they are indicated for your DS given all his symptoms.

Like Sarah's most excellent post above, I think there are many ways of healing, we are very individual. I couldn't do just enzymes, and neither can my DS. The SCD was by far the only immediate option for us.

Houston's are only online and yes I would start with those 2, slowly. Enzymedica's are good, and more suggestions at www.enzymestuff.com


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brisen*
I just finished reading through the thread... what a lot of info! I'm overwhelmed and confused, not surprisingly.

I found out about this through the NT thread... my youngest has eczema, so that has started me doing more research in this area. None of us have very (apparent) extreme digestion issues... Space Man does tend towards soft stools, while Cat King occasionally (2-4 times a year?) gets constipated. Cuddlemonster is still largely breastfed. I have to admit, I always thought it was normal for little ones to have undigested foods in their stools (like under 2 yrs old), I just figured their bodies were still learning how to digest them & they were getting most of their nutrition from milk. Cuddlemonster still gets recognizable bits... mostly (cooked, even) veggies.

So, are they saying that No-Fenol is made with the intention of killing yeasts, but also happens to work somewhat on bacteria? It contains both proteases and cellulases, which both work on yeast, and proteases also work on bacteria? And are they saying if you use No-Fenol and have a mild die-off, your problem is bacteria, but if you have a strong die-off, your problem is yeast? Or am I totally misunderstanding everything?

While I'm sorting this all out and trying to find an affordable source, are there foods which naturally contain enzymes? We just moved away from our source of raw dairy







Hmmm, is soaking the nuts part of activating the enzymes in them? I need to pull ot NT again...

Sorry, this was all probably disjointed and rambly... seems to be how everything I type lately comes out! Pregnancy brain strikes again...

Brisen,

Ok, I'm not going to quote your entire post, but do let me know if I missed anything









You are raising an important point re: soaking grains and other key foods of NT: bone broths, raw meat and fats, cod liver oil, and lacto fermented dairy, beverages and veggies. Because I do think that depending on the individual, NT is a very gut healing diet, the original!

I've been reading back issues of Wise Traditions and Ron Schmid's article jumped out at me too: http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndi...icdisease.html

I'm actually considering moving away from SCD to this type of diet myself. Plus a little help from digestive enzymes. I couldn't before but perhaps now. Perhaps you can do this and work treats in that are totally SCD with nut flours, fruit and honey. Limit grains. Like NT with some SCD foods? I think the key is to listen to your body. My body could not do soaked grains. I'm sure others can.

I just dehydrate all my nuts in oven at 150 degrees, works great for me. Dry out well with towel after soaking.

I think it depends on the beverage and the amount of time fermenting whether all sugars are digested in beverages. You could just do fruit juices only to start, I like the Orangina recipe. Or grape juice kefir.

Re: Yeast/Bacteria and No Fenol
Yes, I think you've got it right. No Fenol helps both issues b/c it helps digests the outer cell coating of not only the critters but the fibers in fruits and veggies too. Which if that fiber is not broken down by digestive system, the sugars in the food you eat feeds the critters. I never got big die off when I used Candex when I had thrush while bf'ing though. I did get die off later on even when halfway healed with proteases. Not sure that helps...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Brisen,

Forgot one...

Soaking nuts and grains are to remove phytates which inibit digestive your enzymes. And also bind to minerals preventing the body from using them.

(And just to rant, the new Food Pyramid with what, 9 serviings of whole grains *will* lead to more digestive disorders since most people rely on processed whole grains.)

Bummer on the raw dairy. Where are you?


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
What do you all think of this for my 11 mo. old dd?...
http://www.betterforbabies.com/vitamineralgreen.html

This product contains liquid chlorophyll and seaweed, which are both illegal in SCD

You are on SCD right? Sorry, I can't remember who is and who's not


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

We are using vitamineral greens and taking it with enzymes. I know that it's not SCD legal, but chlorophyll is so detoxifying and blue green algae is very nutritious-I just made an executive decision!


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2zsel*
Source for DCCC?

Thanks!

If you are near a Mennonite Community you might be able to find some. One of the big foods for some groups of Mennonites is Vernike/Kaese Borrogi (same thing, just one is the Low German, one is the High German name) which is Dry Curd Cottage cheese, mixed with egg as a binder, used as a filling in a noodle type dough. similar to Polish Perogis


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Siana - yes, we're on SCD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *firefaery*
We are using vitamineral greens and taking it with enzymes. I know that it's not SCD legal, but chlorophyll is so detoxifying and blue green algae is very nutritious-I just made an executive decision!
firefaery - how long have you been taking it? What do you think of it?


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks for the info, Jane. I do find it difficult, trying to find *the one perfect system*, esp when even things like a yeast elim. diet and the scd contradict (I'm thinking of honey, fruit) when I thought that scd was supposed to be trying to starve yeast, too. You're right, they key is listening to my body. I just worry that I've messed up my body for so long that it won't be telling me the right things!

That article was helpful, but a bit discouraging.







Partly because I cannot afford loads of high-quality foods, and partly because I was hoping to ease into things gradually, and not cut out anything entirely. Even with that, I wonder if I'm taking steps to make sure I don't give up the changes, or if I'm just making excuses so I don't have to change too much.

For raw dairy -- I'm in Toronto, Canada. I do have a friend, we used to live in the same place, and she moved near Toronto about a year before I did, and we both got milk at the same place. She still drives back for it weekly. I would like to see if I could pay her to pick some up for me, but she's close to giving birth and they will be moving shortly after -- I don't want to put anything else on her plate right now! But hopefully, soon. This farmer sells butter, cheese, whey, buttermilk, *beautiful* eggs, and meat -- all organic/free range/grass fed/etc., and most things are the same or cheaper than buying at the store. Right now, actually, a gallon of store bought whole milk is about $5.20; a gallon of his raw/organic/grass fed milk is $3! His eggs cost about the same as regular old large eggs at the store, and less than half the cost of the fancy organic/flax fed/yada yada yada eggs. If I thought the kids could handle the car ride, I would be driving back every one or two weeks!


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
We are using vitamineral greens and taking it with enzymes. I know that it's not SCD legal, but chlorophyll is so detoxifying and blue green algae is very nutritious-I just made an executive decision!

I too was very dissapointed when I heard that both chlorophyll and seaweed were illegal on SCD. I have low iron levels, and I believe chlorophyll might have helped. I love to eat seaweed, and have used it for its iodine content (in conjuction with celtic sea salt, but now we are using regular iodized salt because I'm nervous about my iodine levels... my grandma just got dx with a goiter!) and other trace minerals.

Anyway, I guess this all depends on your personal situation, level of comfort etc.. I think I'll stick with strict SCD for a few months, evalute the results and make changes from there if need be. I still have the words "fanatical adherence" ringing in my ears









On the topic of iron... For my iron levels, I think I'm going to turn to the homeopathic tissue salt Ferrum. Phos. which will help my body absord the iron available from my food. Any ideas what else would on the SCD? I *need* to get bloodwork to diagnose my iron deficiency just to make sure (though I can almost gurantee it since I have the classic signs that I had when I was diagnosed before).

TIA


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## Karry (Apr 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*









How did dr. appt go? Enzymes are natural and very safe... used for cystic fibrosis patients for example. More info in book. I think they are indicated for your DS given all his symptoms.

Like Sarah's most excellent post above, I think there are many ways of healing, we are very individual. I couldn't do just enzymes, and neither can my DS. The SCD was by far the only immediate option for us.

Houston's are only online and yes I would start with those 2, slowly. Enzymedica's are good, and more suggestions at www.enzymestuff.com

Thanks for asking. He gained a lb. since November and now weighs 28.8 lbs. Still off the chart. The GI wants to do a colonoscopy to rule out colitis I'm assuming he means ulcerative colitis. We are also going to do blood work and check for celiac disease again. He just wants to make sure he's not missing anything.

I know the SCD diet is good for UC and celiac, so I may need to go that way once we get the test results back.

How slow do you go when starting enzymes? Like one capsule of each at each meal or slower?

Thanks so much for you input.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Karry, I'd start slower w/the enzymes. Better to go slow and build up. I started with maybe 1/3 capsule for dd depending on how much food she was having. Sometimes I only used a few sprinkles.

Here's a question for all you coconut yogurt makers:
What did I do wrong? I made it the same way as regular yogurt right?
It did not thicken at all. After 24 hours it was still liquid like I started with.
Thanks!

Oh, and btw, I can't use that vitamineralgreen after all.







There is gluten in it which would be AWFUL for dd. It does look like good stuff though. Soooo. . . my new ? is: What type of probiotic should I get for my dd? I need a recommendation! Somebody on the autism/enzyme group recommended Ultra Flora Plus DF by Metagenics. I looked at it last night but now can't remember if it's legal or not. (I think it had something illegal in it too.)


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Boy, I wish that I had more time. I'd start researching the link between gut healing and breastfeeding. There is so little info about it. Not surprising I guess.

In re: to probiotics:

I'm a little afraid to give dd any because she's so little. I'm too afraid to give her yogurt and I'm suspecting a cow's milk allergy (test results will be back soon.)

Do you all think that the probiotics I'm getting in the yogurt will get to her through my b'milk? AND . . . do you all take a probiotic supplement in addition to the yogurt?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

There's no gluten in Vitamineral greens. The grasses (which is what I'm assuming you're referring to) are not the same as grains at all. They are the young sprouts and are absolutely GF. We react very badly (2 celiacs in the house!) and have researched it thoroughly. I do wheat grass every day on top of vitamineral greens, as does dd. You can call the company if you are concerned.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So we tried an experiement last night. Instead of the apple sauce that dd has been having at bedtime we gave her just eggs (her choice). She went to sleep easier. I'm wondering if she is getting "intoxicated" off the fruit! If she is what in the world am I going to feed her! We're all getting a little sick of the veggies we have been eating. I tend to just boil/steam veggies and put some butter on them. We still need everything cooked at this point. Any ideas???

Had an interesitng LLL meeting today. Most of the people there are dealing with food allergies in thier nurslings or themselves. I was quite the educator. Hopefully it will help some of them. Most were just overwhelmed.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Re: tinnitus

This has been connected to mineral deficiencies.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Brisen,

Just keep at it, you'll find your way.








Have you found any WAPF chapters near you that you could work out a similar drive share with someone else for that farmer?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Liver is awesome for iron and many other vitamins:

http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/liver.html

Quote:

So what makes liver so wonderful? Quite simply, it contains more nutrients, gram for gram, than any other food. In summary, liver provides:

An excellent source of high-quality protein
Nature's most concentrated source of vitamin A
All the B vitamins in abundance, particularly vitamin B12
One of our best sources of folic acid
A highly usable form of iron
Trace elements such as copper, zinc and chromium; liver is our best source of copper
An unidentified anti-fatigue factor
CoQ10, a nutrient that is especially important for cardio-vascular function
A good source of purines, nitrogen-containing compounds that serve as precursors for DNA and RNA.

The raw liver pill idea is the only one I can do right now b/c raw liver is so beneficial:

Quote:

Cut fresh liver into pea-sized pieces and freeze for 14 days. Swallow like vitamin pills... the liver should be of the highest quality available [_Jane note: organic, grass fed_] and very fresh.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Karry*
Thanks for asking. He gained a lb. since November and now weighs 28.8 lbs. Still off the chart. The GI wants to do a colonoscopy to rule out colitis I'm assuming he means ulcerative colitis. We are also going to do blood work and check for celiac disease again. He just wants to make sure he's not missing anything.

I know the SCD diet is good for UC and celiac, so I may need to go that way once we get the test results back.

How slow do you go when starting enzymes? Like one capsule of each at each meal or slower?

Thanks so much for you input.

Ugh re: colonoscopy. What if it is UC, what are the doctor's treatment options? Have you done stool tests to confirm malabsorbtion? OAT test will too. Although these are probably out of mainstream dr. protocol.

Slower than one capsule to start:
http://www.enzymestuff.com/discussionadjustments.htm


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Here's a question for all you coconut yogurt makers:
What did I do wrong? I made it the same way as regular yogurt right?
It did not thicken at all. After 24 hours it was still liquid like I started with.

You probably did nothing wrong. My yogurt is always thin, a lil' thicker than regular coconut milk. Was it tart??

I just ordered some of that coconut cream concentrate that someone mentioned in the Feb thread. And I'm thinking that if I make it thicker, I might make some awesome yogurt. I'll keep you updated.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Jane- Thanks for the Fat Wallet tip! I just saved a bunch of money! (or is that spent a bunch of money)


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that you can use your own batch of yogurt as starter to make more. Is this true?


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that you can use your own batch of yogurt as starter to make more. Is this true?

Yes it is. I don't know the exact amt, but a good 1/4 c per quart, maybe.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I'm picking up some raw goat milk tomorrow.


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## Fay (Sep 21, 2005)

Wow, I'm simply awed by the breadth of knowledge and experience here. I'm Fay, mom of a 4 year old DS with autism. We've been doing a lot of things to heal our guy's gut for more than 2 years and have had a lot of success...but now I need help with the side effects of yeast die-off. The doctor told me exactly what would happen, and I believed him because of what has happened with other children in my son's preschool who went through the die-off phase. DS is agitated all the time and seeking constant vestibular and proprioceptive stimulation. To me it looks like an extreme histamine reaction. Today, for the first time ever, he tried to initiate some aggressive play with me -- he's always been so sweet and gentle with me in the past. Obviously, these problems carry over to preschool, he can't sit still, approaches other people aggressively, is hyperactive, etc. Any recommendations on how to calm DS? He is taking homeopathic remedies for yeast elimination and GI support, plus some heavy-duty probiotics.

The main "side effect" that concerns me is actually a marital issue.







DH wants to quit all the remedies and supplements right now. We just had a big argument about this an hour ago. He wants to go back on the regimen after a few weeks or months if we see some improvement in DS, but of course, you all know that the die-off phase would just start up again if we did that. DH feels that I'm pressuring him into this, but I feel that we either need to commit to this course of action -- which he agreed to, even knowing about the die-off phase -- or abandon it...and I'm not ready to abandon it yet, because I believe it can help DS greatly. What can I say to DH to assure him that we are on the right track?

p.s. Where can I find raw goat milk or even raw cow's milk in the Detroit metro area? I've been trying to find some for over 2 years with no luck.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Hey, check this out. What do you all think of this?
http://cellfoodusa.com/


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that you can use your own batch of yogurt as starter to make more. Is this true?

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Yes it is. I don't know the exact amt, but a good 1/4 c per quart, maybe.
I posted this over on pecanbread and got this exact response:
"NO"
Can I just say that I am so glad you all are here on MDC, 'cause that other one really makes me







:


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## Karry (Apr 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Ugh re: colonoscopy. What if it is UC, what are the doctor's treatment options? Have you done stool tests to confirm malabsorbtion? OAT test will too. Although these are probably out of mainstream dr. protocol.

Slower than one capsule to start:
http://www.enzymestuff.com/discussionadjustments.htm

The only stool test he has had done is to check for digestive enzymes, and it came back normal. What is OAT test?

He said if it is UC he would start him on a low dose of an anti infammatory.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Quote:

Hey, check this out. What do you all think of this?
http://cellfoodusa.com/
I want to know too. The nurse who owns the hfs in our town has been trying to get me to buy that for a month....


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Fay: re: raw milk in detroit area--
I get raw milk from a farm in St. Johns north of lansing. They may have milk groups from Detroit area already. PM me if you are interested in more info. I know it would be a drive, but well worth it in my opinion especially if you get on a milk group and only have to go once in a great while. Unfortunately I am the only one f rom my are 40 minutes away so I go every 2 weeks and make my milk stretch.

Other than my farm, I am not aware of others in Michigan but my milk people might know of more.

Stacy


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Re: liver.

I finally tried the chicken liver pate from EFLF and it was awesome spread on cheese. DD even ate a peice.

My next goal is to actually try the frozen beef liver from the cow I bought last summer. I am such a wimp.

Not to mention the huge heart!! Not sure what the heck to do with that. Wish I'd thought about it and had it ground in the hamburger.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Annikate, I think in BTVC, it specifically says that you need to use fresh starter, or commercial yogurt, as a starter, because your own stuff can have wild bacteria in it that may not be correct.
Oh, and artisticat, there is a recipe for sauteed chicken livers in The Joy of Cooking that ds loves. Basically, you saute them in butter, then take them out, put in some finely minced onions or shallots, add a bit of cider (or dry white wine, but we use cider), and then some chicken stock, boil it down until it's like syrup, then toss in some finely chopped parsely. The sauce is sweet and kind of covers up the liver taste -- and the texture is better, too! What's EFLF?


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Fay said:


> Wow, I'm simply awed by the breadth of knowledge and experience here.
> 
> Hi Fay,
> 
> ...


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

About using your yoghurt as a starter --

I think if you use a scalded spoon to scoop it out into a scalded container and put it into the freezer right away to use next time, you would minimize the wild bacteria. When I've made yoghurt in the past, I would reserve some of the batch and freeze it right away -- not with all of the scalded stuff, but clean -- so I wouldn't worry that maybe the kids had eaten right out of the container and I would be culturing their germs along with the yoghurt bacteria when I made the next batch.

Has anyone tried Caspian Sea yoghurt starter? It says you don't have to incubate it, and it is ready in 6-10 hours. I had been thinking of getting it just to make yoghurt making that much easier and foolproof, but if you're supposed to incubate it for 24 hours... I wonder if it would be OK to do it for the full time.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

This is a recipe I've found in "More-With-Less Cookbook" by Doris Janzen Longacre. I tried to find something similar online, but haven't turned up anything with a quick google. It uses milk powder, but it should be easy to figure out how to convert it (IIRC, you just use the liquid measure -- so 4 c. powdered milk and 10 c. water is the same as 10 c. milk, someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

==================
Cottage Cheese
Makes 1 1/3 lbs. cheese

Scald with boiling water:
-3 qt saucepan
-measuring cup
-whisk or slotted spoon

Measure into saucepan and mix:
-10 c. warm water (110F)
-4 c. dry milk solids
-1 c. commercial buttermilk or starter from previous batch

Incubate at 90F constant heat for 11 hours, or until the milk has set to the consistency of custard. (A sharp knife will leave a clean cut.) If when you check the milk you find that the whey is separated, you will know that it has set too long. A good incubating place in most homes is the kitchen oven with only the light turned on.

Cut the curd. Dip out one cup of curd with a scalded dipper and put it into a scalded container. Stir. Cover itghtly. Set in very cold place in back of refrigerator to keep for your next batch of cheese. With a sharp blade that reaches to the bottom of the pan, cut the curd in 3/4" checkerboard squares. Slash crosswise with the knife to make uniform cubes. Let stand undisturbed 15 minutes.

Cook the curd. Pour hot water (120F) over the curds to a depth of 1 inch. Set pan in a large pot containing hot water (120F). Head so gradually that the curd temperature rises 3 degrees every 10 mins. Very gently rotate the curds, tumbling them over with a spoon, trying not to break them up. Repeat this evry 10 minutes. At the end of 1 1/4 hours, the curds should be shrunken quiet separate from the whey.

Drain the curd. Dip the curds into a cotton bag or cloth. Reserve the whey for cooking and baking. Wash curds with tepid, then very cold water.

Add:
-1 tsp. salt

Mix gently Hang bag up to drain until cheese has reached teh consistency you prefer. Store in a covered container in the refrigerator.

===================================

Maybe it would be easier to just use the dripped yoghurt substitution.
If you're using raw milk, I think you can make it without having to heat it (to thicken it, I mean). I know I've just let raw milk set out and it thickens, though I imagine the buttermilk starter helps with the thickening.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Ugh. Only been on SCD for 6 days, and these have been the hardest 6 days









My DP and I had a big fallout over my "paranoia" over our diets, especially my paranoia about Galen's eczema coming back. Galen is not on SCD







I always eat my meal before everyone else, and he finds them all unappealing. Then when the conventional meal is served, he scarfs it down. I don't want to, and can't force him to eat things he doesn't want to. Isn't there an easier way?

I feel incredibly defeated at times. My DP is supportive in that he'll buy me any products that he finds reasonable (he's not afraid to question things he finds unreasonable, like for instance supplements, enzymes etc.














. But it just seems like I'm fighting an up-hill battle here. I hate that I feel I need his "approval" (I recognize that as a typical feminine characteristic, but it really sucks sometimes!)

Worst thing after feeling pretty good on SCD, all my usual symptoms are now back







I thought I was sort of consptipated from the detox, but no siree, two days of no BM and still diarrhea. Now I'm wondering what to do since at this point I've already eaten eggs, and introduced a couple of fruits and vegetables (not that I intended to introduce so many things already, but I've been really depressed with the 'feud' that I lost track of what I was doing!). I feel like this whole plan is spiraling out of control. What should I do now? Start over OR just stick with foods I'm now on (minus eggs) and just take careful note of symtoms, and introduce new foods slowly?

Re: Testing

I also feel it's probably time I got some testing done (for myself, Galen later). I feel it's more for my DP than myself. Perhaps it would be nice to have a base line to start with and then after being on the diet for a while, I can re-test and see what differences SCD has made.

Please talk with me about testing. I've been told by a friend who recently got herself and her DD tested for celiacs that the Dr.'s in town need to be told which tests to order because they don't know squatt about what tests are most relevant. SO, what tests should I have done? I'm in Canada, so thankfully most if not all the bills will be covered by the provincial health plan.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, cystic fibrosis patients take a prescription enzyme usually, a pancreatic one, which is very different from the ones you can buy online and at the health food store. Not that that means they are safer, just they are different, and also I think most cystic fibrosis patients are being monitored pretty closely by a doctor. At least my cousin, who has cystic fibrosis, is. Oh, and enzymes don't help celiacs with gluten at all, at least according to enzymestuff.com they make it worse!

Interesting about tinnitis and mineral deficiencies -- do you know which ones, Jane? Tinnitis can also mean you have a problem with salicylates, like phenols, in fruits etc. -- just like you get ringing in the ears from too much aspirin. I don't think that's the problem in my case, though, because you'd think no-fenol would stop that, and it hasn't.

Oh, and I remember someone asked about whether Applegate Farms hotdogs are SCD legal, and I heard from someone on an SCD list that at least one of their varieties is -- but it might be a good idea to call and ask if they use any sweeteners besides the honey listed on the package, and any starches that might not be listed. See their website at: http://www.applegatefarms.com

(((hugs))) to Siana -- that's too bad about your dp. He doesn't support your being on the SCD, or your ds, either? Much less himself, I'm guessing? You sound frustrated. It must be hard to cook two separate meals. Is he against it because he really likes foods that are illegal, because he thinks it's not healthy, or what? Will he read articles? Is it the expense?

My dh isn't exactly supportive of SCD, either, although I still just go ahead and cook all SCD food. If DH wants non-SCD food, he goes and buys it himself and takes it to work to eat there, which he does every weekend (stocks up, that is, then brings it in on Monday). He's also opposed to any sort of testing, wants me just to do the elimination diet -- sure, we're poor, but the elimination diet was torture for the three or so days I tried it.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Thanks Jen









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
He doesn't support your being on the SCD, or your ds, either? Much less himself, I'm guessing?

He says he "supports" me in that he doesn't "undermine" my efforts to do what I want with my diet. I don't know if this is all semantics, but it sure doesn't feel like support! I've told him clearly how I feel about the situation, but come hell or high water, he will NOT change his mind.

The thing is that I don't see a problem with his diet (my old diet) since his body is reacting well to it. On the flip side though, mine was not. Chronic diarrhea means something wasn't right, and he doesn't seem to understand the seriousness of that to me (I looked at myself in the mirror yesterday, and I'm looking gaunt). He will not admit that SCD might work for me. When I said it was based on valid science, he smirked and told me how every "fad" diet claims to be based on valid science







:

Another example of a rebuttal is that I don't eat enough food, that's why I'm losing weight (again misses the point that I have chronic d.). He's not here for most of the day, so I'm not sure where he's gathered that impression from, but perhaps it's just an easy rebuttal to make since I don't have much proof (food journals may be, but the quantities of foods aren't mentioned).

Quote:

You sound frustrated. It must be hard to cook two separate meals.
Yup cooking two separate meals is draining me. It's a responsibility I seem to have landed on myself though -- we have a lot of non-SCD food in the house that needs to be used before it gets spoilt. Of course it would be nice if DP volunteered to make some of his meals (I stayed up last night till late to make his work lunch while he watched TV) . I've also asked him to eat with DD so that I only have DS to handle and can may be convince him to eat my food, but he rarely does that too. Yeah I have a lot of issues with the way things have been going lately. I didn't realize how many issues are bugging me until now









Quote:

Is he against it because he really likes foods that are illegal, because he thinks it's not healthy, or what? Will he read articles? Is it the expense?
The SCD 'real foods' expenses don't bother him. He will not read articles or BTVC because he "doesn't have time". He laughs at the terms "illegal" and "legal" as used by BTVC (which I found funny too at first) but I think he's made up his mind that it's quackery -- it's ubsurd that it's based on such simple science that it must not be comprehensive? (I'm not really sure what his exact reasoning is). And yes, he's not willing to give up some of the foods that we like, especially grains (though I have no issues with him eating those foods when the kids are asleep or not around).

We really do have a lot of non-SCD supplies to use (we've always bought in bulk when we can)... lots and lots of supplies!
I wish I stopped caring so much, and just left it up to DP to use. I'm just afraid that he'll make something non-SCD (when the kids and I are all on it) and then present it to us having forgotten that the "fanatical lady" (my self-depricating term) has made everyone go on SCD.

Quote:

My dh isn't exactly supportive of SCD, either, although I still just go ahead and cook all SCD food.








Now if only I could just do that. I could if I wanted to I suppose...

Quote:

If DH wants non-SCD food, he goes and buys it himself and takes it to work to eat there, which he does every weekend (stocks up, that is, then brings it in on Monday).
So he doesn't keep non-SCD foods in the home for long? Wow. My DP has lots and lots of non-SCD foods around. Thankfully my DD doesn't really care about those things... yet!

Quote:

He's also opposed to any sort of testing, wants me just to do the elimination diet -- sure, we're poor, but the elimination diet was torture for the three or so days I tried it.
So you haven't had any testing done either? Elimination diets were hard for me too, but we got through it. After my DS's eczema gradually went away, I was really very proud of myself since I felt that was the result of my proactive measures (we only used calendula ointment topically too). Well my DP told me the other day that we don't know if the elimination diet did anything for DS or if his eczema would have gone away regardless. He then went on to tell me that I deserve credit for doing _something_ about it though!









You know I feel bad about venting about my DP this way. He really is a great partner and father and very caring and loving, but SCD has created a rift between us. I feel right now I'm in a poor physical or mental state, and this conflict isn't doing any good.

So may be testing might be one aspect that could work in my favour. I don't know, and would appreciate any, and all insight.

Sorry for all the nitty-gritties, but no one else I know would understand these issues. In fact every one of my friends and family whom I've talked to about this has tried to talk me out of it! Argh.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

It's true about the enzymes and celiac. We found out there was hidden gluten we never suspected after starting enzymes. It was really bizarre.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

I almost got a batch of coconut milk yogurt to work. I used powdered coconut milk from Wilderness Family Naturals (http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals....onut_milk.htm), in a ratio of 1 c. powder to 1 c. water. Boiled it - up to 190F (I got distracted nursing otherwise I would have stopped at 185 or so). Brought it down to 110F then added my packet of the Yogourmet. Some time ago, I inherited a Yogotherm incubator (see http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals....ory_Code=KTYMS for an example) so that's what I was using - basically a big thermos to go around a plastic yogurt container.

Even though we aren't doing SCD, I thought I'd follow the yogurt recipe and let it brew for 24 hours. The Yogotherm isn't meant to brew on the counter for 24 hours, only 4-5 hours - DOH! I had a good setting this morning (at 12 hours - I peeked) and probably should have stuck it in the fridge then, or done something to keep the whole yogotherm contraption warm for the last 12 hours. When I got home this evening, it had started to show red spots. Ick. Though now that I think about it, maybe by peeking, I contaminated the whole mess. (I really did just peek - didn't touch or taste it like I would have had it been something baking in the oven!)

That said, I don't think coconut milk yogurt needs 24 hours. If I understand correctly, the 24 hours is needed so that the lactose can be broken down fully. Coconut milk doesn't have lactose, so it might not require the extra time. Any thoughts here?

More on coconuts...
-- I recommend reading Fife's book "The Coconut Oil Miracle" - it's chock full of interesting info about the benefits of coconut and palm kernel oils and he includes the corporate tricks (surprise surprise) that were used to get coconut oil knocked out of usage and replaced by vegetable oil - er, soybean oil.
-- My Indian friends (those from the Indian subcontinent) warn about not having too much coconut as such an overdose can cause coughs. Anybody hear about this?








to those who have stubborn and uncooperative dps. My dh calls my current research project "witch medicine" (known here as learning about good nutrition) - though I know that he is only joking, sometimes it gets to be a little annoying. Dh is also a VERY picky eater - requires meat and starch at every meal and will tolerate green things, but don't give him anything from the squash family or any vegetable that is sweet (i.e. no sweet potatoes, beets, etc.). Nothing that resembles cabbage either. I usually "forget" about his dislikes and cook whatever I want to eat anyway; my perogative as the cook - if he doesn't like it, he can cook. He never takes me up on that offer.

Ds and I are currently dairy-free. I'm such a yogurt and cheese addict that this REALLY sucks. Anyhow, I worked out a deal with dh the other day. He's willing to be supportive, but he needed some points about how to be supportive: I'll continue to cook (whatever I want to, or can, eat) and he'll eat without complaining; when we go out for lunch, he's to be sensitive to the dairy-free thing and to help me figure out what I can eat. Being sensitive means not suggesting someplace like the local pizza place. He's also to help me not forget to check labels and such.

Now our good news is that I found a local naturopath who understands that yes, one can desensitize to food allergens, but that's like removing the LED from your car when the "check oil" light is on (his analogy exactly). Desensitization does nothing to understand the cause of the sensitivity; nor does removing the LED help you when your car breaks down while you're flying along at 60mph down the highway. He recommended that we do the lactulose/mannitol test to see if ds has a leaky gut and then proceed from there. [Any tips on getting urine from an unpotty trained child?] The funny (well, sad actually) thing he said was in response to my question "From where do I get this test kit - my regular doc?" He said that there was a good chance that the regular doc had never heard of it. Given that the nurses at the ped's office didn't know why I would be taking cod liver oil, and offering small amounts to ds (they checked his chart to see if it had been prescribed!!), I think I would agree with the np's assessment of our local conventional medical practitioners.

on testing...
-- the np said that blood testing for serum IgA is more accurate than skin pricks but that it would only show up the usual suspects - those foods that have large molecular weight proteins that are typically problematic anyway (milk, eggs, fish...). More importantly, he said to use your intuition about problematic foods. words I would never have heard from the ped's office.
-- it is my understanding that most food allergies showing delayed reactions won't show up in the usual skin pricks (remember that skin pricks show the IgE reaction; delayed reactions are usually indicative of IgA responses).


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Siana, there is a celiac test that is a stool test, but I'm not sure how many doctors know about it or whether it's covered by insurance. I will hunt down the website and put it in here. It's www.Enterolab.com. As far as problems caused in your relationship with SCD,







to you. I know how you feel. You're getting very little to no support in your decision about something so important to you. It's definitely been hard here, too. Is there something special about that makes men mad? DH has also said he can't believe it's done any good, that maybe ds has just grown out of the troubles that have gotten better. How do you counter that??


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Siana*
(I looked at myself in the mirror yesterday, and I'm looking gaunt). He will not admit that SCD might work for me. When I said it was based on valid science, he smirked and told me how every "fad" diet claims to be based on valid science

Another example of a rebuttal is that I don't eat enough food, that's why I'm losing weight (again misses the point that I have chronic d.). He's not here for most of the day, so I'm not sure where he's gathered that impression from, but perhaps it's just an easy rebuttal to make since I don't have much proof (food journals may be, but the quantities of foods aren't mentioned).
Siana, before babies I had trouble keeping weight on. (I did not have chronic D, but now I know it must've been a malabsorption problem). Just a few weeks before starting SCD I was down to almost my old weight/size and was really hoping to keep some of the weight from pregnancy but it didn't look like it would happen.

But guess what? SCD has helped me maintain my weight and I'm thrilled! I read somewhere that this diet will help those who need to lose weight AND will help those who need to maintain weight.









Just thought I'd throw that in there to make you feel better. Hey, your dp will see the results for himself in a few weeks when you start looking and feeling better. Then you won't have to debate it anymore.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
[Any tips on getting urine from an unpotty trained child?]

I remember reading in the circ forum about an alternative to a catheter for catching urine... I think basically it was a bag taped on to catch the urine the next time the kid peed. Maybe they wiped down the skin with something germ-killing first to prevent contamination? It sounded pretty simple, though.

Oh, and I agree with you about the coconut milk -- my understanding is the 24 hours is to get rid of the lactose, so coconut milk could yoghurtize in less time.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

i never thought i would find a tribe--but reading these posts is like seeing my pysche of late in action! i'm still not all the way thru this thread, but i've found the books to order, and i feel a lot less crazy. like someone else posted, i too thought i was making this stuff up because i didn't know a name for it.

you don't know how many times i've wanted to post the question "what is a toddler's poop supposed to look like'"? that's so fiunny that you say no one even knows anymore. and every time i took my girls to the doctor they just advised giving formula. i won't go into details, but a lot of stuff passes thru undigested. i think it's gotten better since i started nt, but now i see we still have work to do. wow--i have hope, guys. for myself, dh and the babes.

well, i have to catch up on the post, and i might not have a chance to post much myself, but i will be reading.

you mamas rock!


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## vermontana (Oct 21, 2005)

:
New here, too. I posted a question yesterday in the nutrition/immunology 101, and now I realize I shouldn't even be over there...I have a lot to work on/learn before I try to understand some of that stuff. I'm pretty sure I need to be here, although I've been telling myself, "I'm not that bad". Well, this is what I've got going on: diarrhea every morning, sometimes only once, but usually a couple times before I eat bfast. This is only in the morning. I find that strange. Throughout the day, my tummy feels okay, in the pm I get a bit gassy and have a more solid bm (sorry tmi). I have pretty bad skin (I had severe cystic acne as a teenager, and tried all the terrible drugs, which of course did not help one bit). I've been using a number of herbal tinctures and teas over the past few years that have helped some, but now I'm looking at the SCD and don't want to let go of some of my herbs that are on the illegal list. I have major circles under my eyes--I just don't look like a healthy woman. I am planning on TTC in the next 6 months/year, but I just have this overwhelming feeling of something NOT being right in my body, with my health, and I want to fix that before I get pregnant. I have some hormonal issues (low progesterone, short LP,etc), but I'm not sure how the SCD or other dietary changes fit into/influence that.
I am beginning to incorporate more NT foods/habits into my life, and I am wondering if I am really faithfully NT, and no grains, would that help me or do you think I should just bite the bullet and go SCD? I'm honestly really intimidated by the SCD, but I know I need to do *something* different. I just feel so tired, moody, ugly and "off".








I want to say thank you to all you wise women for sharing your information, knowledge and experiences! I have been lurking here a long time.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Here's a question for all you coconut yogurt makers:
What did I do wrong? I made it the same way as regular yogurt right?
It did not thicken at all. After 24 hours it was still liquid like I started with.
Thanks!

Soooo. . . my new ? is: What type of probiotic should I get for my dd? I need a recommendation! Somebody on the autism/enzyme group recommended Ultra Flora Plus DF by Metagenics. I looked at it last night but now can't remember if it's legal or not. (I think it had something illegal in it too.)

Coconut milk, or any other "alternative" milks will not gel like cow or goat's milk because of the lack of proteins. The gelled consisitency of yogurt comes from the lactic acid bacteria creating a matrix with the casein protein micelles in animal milks.

Ultra Flora Plus has bifidus and is not recommended for SCD.

As far as I know the only SCD probiotics (besides yogurt) are http://www.pecanbread.com/probiotics.html#brands


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fay*
Wow, I'm simply awed by the breadth of knowledge and experience here. I'm Fay, mom of a 4 year old DS with autism. We've been doing a lot of things to heal our guy's gut for more than 2 years and have had a lot of success...but now I need help with the side effects of yeast die-off. The doctor told me exactly what would happen, and I believed him because of what has happened with other children in my son's preschool who went through the die-off phase. DS is agitated all the time and seeking constant vestibular and proprioceptive stimulation. To me it looks like an extreme histamine reaction. Today, for the first time ever, he tried to initiate some aggressive play with me -- he's always been so sweet and gentle with me in the past. Obviously, these problems carry over to preschool, he can't sit still, approaches other people aggressively, is hyperactive, etc. Any recommendations on how to calm DS? He is taking homeopathic remedies for yeast elimination and GI support, plus some heavy-duty probiotics.

The main "side effect" that concerns me is actually a marital issue.







DH wants to quit all the remedies and supplements right now. We just had a big argument about this an hour ago. He wants to go back on the regimen after a few weeks or months if we see some improvement in DS, but of course, you all know that the die-off phase would just start up again if we did that. DH feels that I'm pressuring him into this, but I feel that we either need to commit to this course of action -- which he agreed to, even knowing about the die-off phase -- or abandon it...and I'm not ready to abandon it yet, because I believe it can help DS greatly. What can I say to DH to assure him that we are on the right track?

p.s. Where can I find raw goat milk or even raw cow's milk in the Detroit metro area? I've been trying to find some for over 2 years with no luck.









Fay,

What does your homeopathic practioner say about this type of reaction? In our house, aggression and sensory problems always meant an increase in yeast/bacteria in DS, a food reaction.

I don't know if it's mercury in retrograde right now or what, but DH and I are at loggerheads over our DS's diet/treatment/supplements too!

What is your DH's reasoning for quitting? Take a break? Not sure of purpose? Die off regression? Honestly, and this is what I say to my DH, you can't know you are on the right track unless you try. Even when I have made mistakes, I've learned from them.

It makes it so much harder to have to "convince" a DP that has usually done much less research and observation than you do. Personally I don't feel that "do nothing" is appropriate in these circumstances because that in iteself can make things worse in our kids. I think you just need to keep talking about it, to go thru all the possibilities with him so that he is comfortable that this a reasonable, well indicated option right now. At some point, my DH just agrees to defer to my mama intuition and more time spent researching.

Pecanbread lists magnesium (epsom salt baths) and activated charcoal as helpful for die off.

Other magnesium suggestions: http://www.enzymestuff.com/magnesium.htm
More on AC here: http://www.enzymestuff.com/activatedcharcoal.htm
Enzymes for die off: http://www.enzymestuff.com/rtdieoff.htm

Firefaery has also recommended pascalite clay earlier in this thread.

Raw milk sources: www.realmilk.com or contact your local Weston Price chapter leader www.westonaprice.org


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Boy, I wish that I had more time. I'd start researching the link between gut healing and breastfeeding. There is so little info about it. Not surprising I guess.

In re: to probiotics:

I'm a little afraid to give dd any because she's so little. I'm too afraid to give her yogurt and I'm suspecting a cow's milk allergy (test results will be back soon.)

Do you all think that the probiotics I'm getting in the yogurt will get to her through my b'milk? AND . . . do you all take a probiotic supplement in addition to the yogurt?

Yes, they do go thru breastmilk but not sure of concentrations, think more about supplementing her directly. No probiotics are needed in addition to yogurt. 24 hr. yogurt contains more probiotics in a teaspoon than any capsule on the market.

Breastfeeding, Intestinal Flora Imbalances and Leaky Gut will be HUGE when it is finally researched. Believe me, if I win the lottery, this will be on my list of projects to fund. However, I doubt it will be well received, and this is SO widespread... I cannot tell you how many times I wished I could whip out a book with this title and give it to a mama (or indeed the entire Allergies board here at MDC.) But the current view of nutrition takes a back seat to bf'ing promotion as whole.








Time for another rant repeat.

I still think it's unconscionable that Kellymom still has this on their site b/c there is more current research studies proving that *this is NOT true*:

Quote:

*Do I need to maintain a perfect diet while breastfeeding?*
The short answer to this question is NO - you do not need to maintain a perfect diet in order to provide quality milk for your baby. In fact, research tells us that the quality of a mother's diet has little influence on her milk. Nature is very forgiving - mother's milk is designed to provide for and protect baby even in times of hardship and famine. A poor diet is more likely to affect the mother than her breastfed baby...

Are healthy eating habits recommended for mom? Absolutely! You will be healthier and feel better if you eat well. It is best for anyone to eat a variety of foods, in close to their naturally-occurring state, but this is not necessary for providing quality milk or for maintaining milk supply. Although it is certainly not recommended, a breastfeeding mother could live on a diet of junk food - mom would not thrive on that diet, but her milk would still meet her baby's needs.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Ultra Flora Plus has bifidus and is not recommended for SCD.

As far as I know the only SCD probiotics (besides yogurt) are http://www.pecanbread.com/probiotics.html#brands
Jane, curious about your opinion . . . would you think this would be necessary/safe for my 11 month old?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Oh! I see we cross posted. You read my mind.









ETA: In re: to the kellymom quote. Ooooohhhh, I know! LLL leaders need to know this stuff too!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Jen,

EFLF is Eat Fat, Lose Fat based on using coconut oil by Sally Fallon and Mary Enig of the Weston Price Foundation: http://www.mercola.com/2004/dec/29/eat_fat.htm

Soaking liver in lemon juice, yogurt or whey will neutralize that livery taste too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Jane, curious about your opinion . . . would you think this would be necessary/safe for my 11 month old?

The Metagenics or SCD legal probiotics?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Did any of you see NBC news about 4-5 nights ago (?) My mom told me that she was watching a clip about a breastfeeding mom who had an allergic child and this mom wrote a book about it.

Apparently she wrote this book to clear up any misconceptions about the child being allergic to *her* milk and she explains that it wasn't her milk, but the food proteins in the milk.

Sorry I don't know more about it. My mom called last night to tell me about it (she couldn't remember any more details and only *thinks* it was on 4-5 nights ago.)

I did a search on their site but turned up nothing. Wondering if anyone knows what I'm talking about? I'd like to find out more.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

The Metagenics or SCD legal probiotics?
SCD products.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Jen,

Tinnitus and magnesium deficiency: http://www.tinnitusformula.com/infoc...magnesium.aspx

Also B12
http://www.mothernature.com/Library/...oks/10/111.cfm
(but do not listen to that article about beta carotene, can be bad for gut problems and natural vit. A is way better, no risk of toxicity.)

More about B12 here: http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...itaminb12.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
SCD products.

Well the 'Power of Probitics' thread here somewhere in this forum goes into the necessity of probiotic supplementation not only for disease treatment but also prevention. But I can understand your reluctance with a year old babe. I did it wrong myself! (We relied on Baby Jarrow too long before I knew of the bifidus issue. But then again, it seemed to be helping too.)

In some ways I think there is just not enough research on the particular ... but then again, it's also a food product. And in many other countries and traditions, yogurt and kefir are weaning foods, so that is why I'd be most comfortable with acidophilus as opposed to the many other strains that are available, not just because SCD doesn't rec bifidus.

Kirkman is dairy free too.


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## Peri Patetic (Feb 16, 2006)

Hello everyone! Some of you might have seen me pop up on the NT thread not long ago. Seems I am de-lurking all over the place lately! I've been spending my time reading old threads rather than posting.

Quick ? -- I know I read somewhere about dry mouth being an indicator of something and I think it was in a gut healing thread but I can't get a search for it to work...I'm having terrible dry mouth today. What causes it? TIA!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
He says he "supports" me in that he doesn't "undermine" my efforts to do what I want with my diet. I don't know if this is all semantics, but it sure doesn't feel like support! I've told him clearly how I feel about the situation, but come hell or high water, he will NOT change his mind.

I'm glad you brought all this up, don't apologize. As you can see many of us are having this problem and we really haven't talked about it in detail like this before.

The SCD was clinically tested and used on hundreds of patients, with success, 70 years ago by Dr. Haas. I really wouldn't call it a fad diet that's only been around for a few years... but husbands are husbands, it's hard to counter this sort of argument.

He's gonna do what he's gonna do, but he also has a duty to help you and DS any way he can. That's the ground rules so far in our house. My DH has the most horrible diet you can imagine. You have no idea how much I've had to restrain myself, even before I really, really got a clue about nutrition (pre-Weston Price and SCD). He eats out a lot, at work, on way home etc. He cooks some of his own stuff: pancakes every weekend for ex. Right now there is Apple Jacks in the pantry I want to flush down the toilet in the worst way!









I just know my DH has some huge food issues that I don't press it b/c it will just be more trouble than it's worth. I actually feel very sad for him that he has no impetus to change. I'm grateful for the way these problems with DS has led me to cure myself of several autoimmune conditions. Conditions that conventional medicine has no good answers for. It's a tremendous gift equal to the amount of work I've put into it for sure.

I honestly don't know how I'm going to handle this when DS gets older. My true wish is that both DS and I will be healed enough to do a yummy NT style diet that DH can eat happily too.







: And then just let DH have his junk food outside of home only when he wants.

We have also resorted to keeping around frozen food, canned chili, etc. for DH when I just cannot make him extra food to eat. Or easy prepared stuff I can just heat up for him. Pretty much every supermarket now has a wide choice of prepared foods.

DS has had some stool testing in the past, this and hair test proved to my DH that I was on the right path (and sadly, it sucked to be right for this mama!!)







So in that sense, yes it was very helpful. Because although I've spent so much time on this I feel I can make a judgement as to a reasonable course of action to take next, someone who hasn't spent this amount of time will view it differently.

DS is doing another stool test right now from Great Smokies (no yogurt or enzymes for a week, oh joy, not looking forward to this!!







)
http://www.gsdl.com/home/assessments/parasit/

It's $132 thru our new holistic Ped but www.directlabs.com might be able to order it for you. It will come with herbal/alterntive suggestions in addition to convential antibx I think, for treating any problems. They will be specific recs for what your particular little critters are sensitive to.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I'm just wondering if we majorly dodged a bullet with dd. With all her issues I just wonder what would have happened if we would have vaxed her. I'm so glad we haven't. Dh still wants her to get some and I told him I won't even think about it untill she is completely yeast free.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Bluets/Jennifer,

(Wow, there are a LOT of Jennifers on here







)

Yes, I think your observations about coconut milk and not needing to culture very long are correct. I think nut yogurt recs I've heard at Pecanbread are around 4-6 hours culturing I thought. And honey is added to provide an additional carb for the good bacteria to eat (not many carbs in coconut milk either).

Good luck with the naturopath! Keep us posted on progress.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
i never thought i would find a tribe--but reading these posts is like seeing my pysche of late in action! i'm still not all the way thru this thread, but i've found the books to order, and i feel a lot less crazy. like someone else posted, i too thought i was making this stuff up because i didn't know a name for it.

you don't know how many times i've wanted to post the question "what is a toddler's poop supposed to look like'"? that's so fiunny that you say no one even knows anymore. and every time i took my girls to the doctor they just advised giving formula. i won't go into details, but a lot of stuff passes thru undigested. i think it's gotten better since i started nt, but now i see we still have work to do. wow--i have hope, guys. for myself, dh and the babes.

well, i have to catch up on the post, and i might not have a chance to post much myself, but i will be reading.

you mamas rock!









Mehera

We all love to talk about poop!









I remember hearing about how this is common in Europe, there is a actually a toilet made with a shelf designed to allow "examination" before flushing.







Just an indication of the idea of viewing it as an important sign of the health of the entire body. And I totally agree, based on my own experience shall we say.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'm just wondering if we majorly dodged a bullet with dd. With all her issues I just wonder what would have happened if we would have vaxed her. I'm so glad we haven't. Dh still wants her to get some and I told him I won't even think about it untill she is completely yeast free.

I can tell you with absolute mama certainty that yes you have. We did too. It's hard to "prove a negative". I was just using this in my "discussion" with DH recently. All the things I have done with DS... such as cod liver oil since he was 8 mos. old... a GF/CF diet. Impossible to prove that this saved his brain in any way, but the indications are certainly there. Go with your gut.

I'll never ever vax. I know too much now. And there is "late onset" autism, I still think about that when DS is having a reaction to something.


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

quick question: do enzymes/probiotics pass thru breastmilk? sorry if this has been asked before.

It is good to hear a discussion about how these diet changes can impact our relationships with our SO's,and I'm really sorry for anyone who has to struggle through it on top of dealing with your own and/or your child's illness. I've heard many of the same type of "witch-medicine" jokes from my dh in regards to our diet, homeopathy, probiotics, fermented foods, etc. Dh is trying to improve his health, but his approach is sooooo different than mine, and he likes to cook his own snacks too (frozen pizzas, chicken wings, dry ribs- all "pre-made" stuff with creepy ingredieats, not to mention his addiction to sugar, pop, etc.). He tries though, and has come a loooonnnnnggggg way since we've been together. His definition of vegetables when we met was potatoes or corn, and now he'll gladly sit down to a big dish of stir-fried veggies; he also did the 10-day master cleanse after Christmas, so I have to keep those things in mind and give him credit. I try to read to him things that are concise, easy to grasp, and to the point. I've read sections of NT to him, Breaking the Vicious Cycle, The Maker's Diet, and lots of exerpts from studies, natural health books, etc. He is a numbers guy, like many men are. My intuitive mothering sense didn't used to be enough for him- he wanted cold hard numbers, so I tried to provide these as often as I thought he would listen. But as nature would have it, many of my "witchy" ways have helped our health over time, and he sees that and gives me my space with it for the most part. He's not so sceptical anymore. As for his own health, I just hope that little by little he will continue to improve, because I so worry about him too.

For anyone struggling thru these issues, I would just suggest that if your dh is mainstream, he may well be persuaded by facts and figures if nothing else.


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

I thought I'd share this recipe we've been using to fill the carb gap this week (lentils are on the SCD legal list, right?)...anyways, my boys really like these:

Not-quite dosas








1 c. green lentils (brown would work too i imagine)
filtered water
sea salt
lemon juice
2 eggs
olive or coconut oil
coconut oil, for frying.

Cover the lentils with water and soak overnight. The next evening, drain, rinse, and transfer to blender. Add about 1/2 c. water, 1/4 tsp sea salt, and a splash of lemon juice. Blend until smooth. Add a little extra water as necessary. Let this soak overnight. In the morning, crack 2 eggs into the blender, and add a drizzle of olive oil or a chunk of coconut oil, and process until smooth. Drop by the spoonful on a hot oiled griddle as you would for dollar-pancakes. Fry each side until dark brown. Serve hot with a little honey spread over them or cold for easy hand-held snacks.

Come to think of it, I hope I'm putting this in the right place. I didn't check to see if there was a SCD menu planning thread, since we're not on the SCD!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'm just wondering if we majorly dodged a bullet with dd. With all her issues I just wonder what would have happened if we would have vaxed her. I'm so glad we haven't. Dh still wants her to get some and I told him I won't even think about it untill she is completely yeast free.
Oh boy! Do I know what you mean. I think it was in the original thread that Jane started in re: to healing the gut I think she said the same thing about "dodging a bullet" and you know what? Those words have been ringing in my head A LOT recently. I believe we did too (and we're still not out of the woods yet so to speak.) We did vax







but we will definitely NOT do anymore.

I tried to explain all that is happening and what I've learned to a good friend today and whew! How do you explain all of this in a nutshell to someone who has not been enlightened/educated about it yet?

I just consider myself sooooo fortunate to have been here reading, reading, reading and asking questions. Seriously, Jane S, you have been the impetus for all of this and also my (or dd's) saving grace.









I say that about Jane (although there are others too) because it's her posts I used to read in the wee hours when my dd was awake yet again, and you know what? Her words finally began to take root. That's how it works. I just hope that I'll be able to do that for some other mommy and save her and her dc some heartache yk?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vermontana*







:
New here, too. I posted a question yesterday in the nutrition/immunology 101, and now I realize I shouldn't even be over there...I have a lot to work on/learn before I try to understand some of that stuff. I'm pretty sure I need to be here, although I've been telling myself, "I'm not that bad". Well, this is what I've got going on: diarrhea every morning, sometimes only once, but usually a couple times before I eat bfast. This is only in the morning. I find that strange. Throughout the day, my tummy feels okay, in the pm I get a bit gassy and have a more solid bm (sorry tmi). I have pretty bad skin (I had severe cystic acne as a teenager, and tried all the terrible drugs, which of course did not help one bit). I've been using a number of herbal tinctures and teas over the past few years that have helped some, but now I'm looking at the SCD and don't want to let go of some of my herbs that are on the illegal list. I have major circles under my eyes--I just don't look like a healthy woman. I am planning on TTC in the next 6 months/year, but I just have this overwhelming feeling of something NOT being right in my body, with my health, and I want to fix that before I get pregnant. I have some hormonal issues (low progesterone, short LP,etc), but I'm not sure how the SCD or other dietary changes fit into/influence that.
I am beginning to incorporate more NT foods/habits into my life, and I am wondering if I am really faithfully NT, and no grains, would that help me or do you think I should just bite the bullet and go SCD? I'm honestly really intimidated by the SCD, but I know I need to do *something* different. I just feel so tired, moody, ugly and "off".









I want to say thank you to all you wise women for sharing your information, knowledge and experiences! I have been lurking here a long time.











Yep, you need to be here








My gut was always bad at night and AM. I think it's because the previous day's meals are moving on thru, creating their havoc.

It's hard to say in advance whether one particular diet or approach will work for every person. I can say this: if you try SCD, what do you have to lose? And you might be pleasantly surprised at how quickly you notice changes. If not, I forget the amount of time that it is recommended you stick with it: a month, six weeks? It might say in book. But for me it seems easier, more regimented or controlled than NT as a whole to target gut issues directly.

And you are *so, so lucky* that you are doing this before pregnancy!! First you have the time. And then, now that you have found the MDC corner of the world, you are learning how absolutely crucial it is for building a baby inside your body.









My skin used to break out too, especially around AF, but now, never! Maybe one tiny zitlet that goes away in a day or two. And I don't even think about what soap I use or whatever. I don't even think I remember to wash in the AM now. The involved routines I used to do, ugh. My only moisturizer or treatment now is Rosewater/Glycerin spray. Edited to say: broke out pretty much continually since puberty btw, lifelong issue too.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Jane,

Quote:

And there is "late onset" autism, I still think about that when DS is having a reaction to something.
Our son had late onset autism, it happened around age 12. I haven't heard of this...I mean we always suspected he could be "a little" autistic, but during puberty, it went full on...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peri Patetic*
Hello everyone! Some of you might have seen me pop up on the NT thread not long ago. Seems I am de-lurking all over the place lately! I've been spending my time reading old threads rather than posting.

Quick ? -- I know I read somewhere about dry mouth being an indicator of something and I think it was in a gut healing thread but I can't get a search for it to work...I'm having terrible dry mouth today. What causes it? TIA!

Cannot recall at all but welcome and feel free to jump in again


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
Jane,

Our son had late onset autism, it happened around age 12. I haven't heard of this...I mean we always suspected he could be "a little" autistic, but during puberty, it went full on...

OMG, you are striking fear in my heart. Do you think it was puberty or another "insult" to system? I was just reading more about testosterone and its affinity for Hg (or the other way around) the other day.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
quick question: do enzymes/probiotics pass thru breastmilk? sorry if this has been asked before.

Yes! The probiotic content of bm is legendary, just like raw cow's milk too







but I don't know exactly how the levels of same relate to gut health or gut disease for that matter. I do know in cows that gut pathogens pass on in their milk for ex. And we know thrush in mamas and babies are passed on from gut, it's not an exclusive nipple infection.

(I'm glad I know I can say these things to you about raw cows milk and you won't be weirded out b/c you are an NT gal







)

One of the good aspects of enzymes is that the proteases enter the bloodstream and clean up inflammation and other "junk" around the body, very interesting. Arthritis is one of the indications for their use.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Seriously, Jane S, you have been the impetus for all of this and also my (or dd's) saving grace.









I say that about Jane (although there are others too) because it's her posts I used to read in the wee hours when my dd was awake yet again, and you know what? Her words finally began to take root. That's how it works. I just hope that I'll be able to do that for some other mommy and save her and her dc some heartache yk?









Thank you so much for saying this, that makes me feel really good.









I have angels here too: Gale Force, Goodpapa, MT, Tracy and the NT mamas, Toraji who all really helped me get a clue.







Each year MDC seems to advance its collective knowledge in a really amazing way. Your experience too will help everyone here as well!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
I thought I'd share this recipe we've been using to fill the carb gap this week (lentils are on the SCD legal list, right?)...anyways, my boys really like these:

Not-quite dosas









Come to think of it, I hope I'm putting this in the right place. I didn't check to see if there was a SCD menu planning thread, since we're not on the SCD!









Cool yes lentils are SCD legal (and I hate that term too) if they are soaked. Several SCD recipes online treat white beans in a similar way, in pancakes and such.

There is an SCD chefs thread in Meal Planning.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

I guess I need a life if I'm doing literature searches (unrelated to my work) on a Friday night.

1. this just in.. (almost) hot off the presses... (are you ready?)

cod liver oil is good for mamas who breastfeed and for their babies too.

Ann Nutr Metab. 2006 Feb 23;50(3):270-276
Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids in the Diet and Breast Milk of Lactating Icelandic Women with Traditional Fish and Cod Liver Oil Consumption.
Olafsdottir AS, Thorsdottir I, Wagner KH, Elmadfa I.

The proportion of polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) in the diet and breast milk of lactating women with traditional fish and cod liver oil consumption was investigated under free-living conditions. ...

The proportion of PUFA in the diet is significantly higher among women consuming cod liver oil. Its use also gives higher proportion of EPA,DPA and DHA in breast milk without decreasing other important fatty acids. As this may have an impact on the health and development of breast-fed infants in later life, regular maternal cod liver oil intake could be relevant for the infant as well as for the nutritional adequacy of the maternal diet.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum

2. and related to something JaneS said earlier about momma nutrition:
J Nutr Biochem. 2005 Nov 17
Effect of suboptimal nutrition during lactation on milk protein gene expression in the rat.
Zubieta AC, Lonnerdal B.

Human milk provides infants with proteins that aid in the prevention of infections and facilitate the digestion and absorption of other nutrients. Maternal diet is not believed to affect the protein concentration of breast milk. .... These results suggest that compromised maternal nutrition can affect the expression of two individual milk proteins and may have functional implications with regard to bioactive proteins in milk.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum

3. here's an interesting one, though I don't have access to the full article

Proc Nutr Soc. 2005 Nov;64(4):465-9.
Probiotics and allergy.
Furrie E.

Allergy is caused by an immune reaction that is out of all proportion to the antigenic stimuli. Classical allergy is a type I hypersensitivity reaction mediated by the interaction of mast cells (and eosinophils) coated with allergen-specific IgE and a cross-linking allergen. The physiological outcome is inflammation commonly displayed by urticaria, rhinitis, vomiting and diarrhoea, depending on the route of allergen entry. In extreme reactions anaphylactic shock can result that may lead to death. Chronic allergic responses most commonly present themselves as asthma and eczema. All these symptoms are the consequence of an imbalanced immune system making an unsuitable response to an environmental or food antigen. On bacterial colonisation of the colon after birth the appropriate microbiological stimuli is essential to redress the balance of the skewed T-helper 2 immune response present in the newborn. This normal interaction between baby and microbes is thought to be compromised in the Western world, with a reduction in bifidobacteria and an increase in clostridial species, particularly in bottle-fed infants. The use of probiotic therapy to prevent allergic disease has been demonstrated in two studies using a probiotic Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG in neonates. A long-term reduction in allergy has been shown in the test group, with lactobacillus reducing the incidence of atopic eczema. Management of allergy through probiotics has also been demonstrated in infants, using lactobacilli to control atopic eczema and cow's milk allergy. Unfortunately, these positive results have not been repeated in studies with older children and young adults.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

---

Actually, I'm looking for an abstract I stumbled on the other day where researchers found that human breast milk does NOT contain bovine casein proteins, suggesting that it is other (cow) milk proteins that are problematic in an allergic response.

Another interesting one:

- for mamas who have real little ones and are considering SCD but are afraid of the nuts, there was a study showing that almond milk is actually less sensitizing than soy (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum)


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

My goat gurt didn't set.









I think it got too hot and killed the culture. I checked it earlier today and the heating pad that was supposed to be on medium was on high. I either did that by mistake last night setting it up or the toddler got ahold of it this morning. I'm thinking it was me though cause it didn't really taste like yougart at all.

It was the perfect 102 ish now though so I went ahead and stirred in some more yougart and put it back. Is there anything wrong with doing it this way?

I'm torn about doing it raw or pasturizing it before making the gurt. I get the idea that if there was something nasty in there it would be a great culture for it and we are particularly susceptable to that but at the same time I hate to miss out on all the benefits of raw. Thoughts?

DD and I are sick. Went to the Dr today and we are on two remedies. She has what might become an ei so we're hoping to nip that in the bud. Just remembered that I should be putting bm in there. The np also said that dd "looks like a sepia" and gave me some 30x for her teething. I told her that Cammommilla wasn't really cutting it for her. Can I do that at bedtime after just finishing the high potency? Also those who know homeopathics. How important is it to keep that 15 min break between nursings? DD nurses like every hour all day long so getting that high potency into her w/ breaks would be about impossible.

DH is doing bedtime but it will be time for the magic bbs soon...


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Quote:

OMG, you are striking fear in my heart. Do you think it was puberty or another "insult" to system? I was just reading more about testosterone and its affinity for Hg (or the other way around) the other day.


I read that Geier stuff too, on testosterone...it made me wonder.

I think the regression was a group of major stressors (a move, etc) that occured within a short time period, combined with puberty.

The Geir research made me want to give testosterone a look. I was worried about a regression with the flu he had this week...he is a little less talkative. Maybe the next round of chelation will bring him back. He had a regression last month from MB12.

BTW-He ate some gluten today (1/10th of a subway sandwich) w/o any effects w/o enzymes. I gave him some enzymes 1/2 an hour later though. Thats odd, I get horribly ill when I eat gluten w/o enzymes....I wonder if this means his gut is healing?


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## vermontana (Oct 21, 2005)

Quote:

And you are so, so lucky that you are doing this before pregnancy!! First you have the time. And then, now that you have found the MDC corner of the world, you are learning how absolutely crucial it is for building a baby inside your body.
Yes, I'm so glad I am doing this before I get pregnant. I am learning so much here, and although it's hard to wait (I wanted to start TTC over a year ago, but DH and I decided we ought to wait until I feel a bit more healthy and strong). It is really hard trying to explain all of this to others, even DH (who is really supportive, but just doesn't *get it* yet), especially when I am just starting to figure it out myself.

Can anyone tell me what brand of CLO is best? So far, I have just been using the cheaper house brand from the nat. food store (capsules), but I know there's better stuff out there.

THanks for the warm welcome, you ladies are giving me faith.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
OMG, you are striking fear in my heart. Do you think it was puberty or another "insult" to system? I was just reading more about testosterone and its affinity for Hg (or the other way around) the other day.










Ahhhh, I lost my whole, long post that I TOH. Damn dial-up.

vermontana, are you in VT? I'm in the Rutland area


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ugh! Constipated for 2 days and now D!

We had started using digest at 3 meals a day earlier this week but now dd and I are sick. I quit using the digest gold for now since it seemed to be making dd not quite right and I didn't want her coping with that and being sick at the same time but now I realize it may have just been this sickness the whole time. Should we keep using the digest? How likely is it that it was making her feel off?

I feel like all I have for this group right now is questions, no answers.

Oh and I'm wanting an opinion on almond milk. BTVC says to wait 6 months to start it, but pecan bread says it can be started with nut butters, earlier than nut flour. We are doing nut flour w/o issues right now, does that mean I could make some almond milk now? I'm really just wanting it for my coffee and I only drink that on the weekends. I'm just sick of black coffee. Also has anyone made cashew milk? Would that be richer (and more like coffee creamer?)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Best is difficult to answer for CLO. High vitamin (actually its normal vitamin amount is present) is the best, available in only a few places:
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html

Best tasting for kids to take is the Nordic Naturals liquid oil: peach or berry. Or lemon Carlson's. I supplement with A and D when using NN. My DS has gotten used to the high vitamin stuff in juice as long as it's in a covered cup and he can't smell it.

*Cod Liver Oil: Our Number One Superfood*
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...dliveroil.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

RE: Bluets research studies

Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG is www.Culturelle.com. They have sponsored a ton of studies b/c that strain is able to be patented. And it doesn't colonize the gut so you have to keep taking it to reap benefits. I find it interesting that they mention how the bifidobacterium is lacking, yet supplement with a lactobacillus to correct it.

And the cow's milk casein in BM issue. BM is supposed to contain broken down proteins. However, we all know that leaky gut allows intact (undigested) proteins to be released into the bloodstream. And BM is made up of what is in the bloodstream. Please post that study if you find it. To test this, they would have to recognize leaky gut and screen for it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
It was the perfect 102 ish now though so I went ahead and stirred in some more yougart and put it back. Is there anything wrong with doing it this way?

According to SCD, probably, because the time the bacteria was killed off, and it was kept warm, can grow pathogens? I dunno!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'm torn about doing it raw or pasturizing it before making the gurt. I get the idea that if there was something nasty in there it would be a great culture for it and we are particularly susceptable to that but at the same time I hate to miss out on all the benefits of raw. Thoughts?

This is where I diverge from SCD. I have researched raw milk extensively and believe in my sources. Personally, I feel that drinking pasteurized milk is one of the major issues that leads to the development of digestive and immune disorders to begin with.

Clean, fresh raw milk from grass fed animals doesn't have pathogens to culture. The macrophages in the milk kill them when they are introduced, just like breastmilk. Plus the lactic acid bacteria, once it starts to grow, preserves the milk as well.

All I can say is that I've been on raw milk kefir and yogurt consistently since last May and I've only gotten better and better.

More info on raw milk here: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...30#post4594730

I'm a neophyte when it comes to homeopathics, hopefully Firefaery or Gale Force will chime in!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ugh! Constipated for 2 days and now D!

We had started using digest at 3 meals a day earlier this week but now dd and I are sick. I quit using the digest gold for now since it seemed to be making dd not quite right and I didn't want her coping with that and being sick at the same time but now I realize it may have just been this sickness the whole time. Should we keep using the digest? How likely is it that it was making her feel off?

I feel like all I have for this group right now is questions, no answers.

Oh and I'm wanting an opinion on almond milk. BTVC says to wait 6 months to start it, but pecan bread says it can be started with nut butters, earlier than nut flour. We are doing nut flour w/o issues right now, does that mean I could make some almond milk now? I'm really just wanting it for my coffee and I only drink that on the weekends. I'm just sick of black coffee. Also has anyone made cashew milk? Would that be richer (and more like coffee creamer?)

Digest and Digest Gold and different... the Gold is way strong. Maybe do a portion of a capsule. It's really hard to say how each person will react to enzymes.

I think Pecanbread Yahoo group said that BTVC said to wait 6 months b/c if you drank almond milk plus ate other almond baked goods, that's too many almonds? If it's just the weekend coffee issue, I say go for it. Also I wonder if you could make a "milk" from DCCC for your coffee similar to the BTVC formula recipe. By whizzing it up in blender with water and then straining it well? Just thinking out loud here.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:

Also I wonder if you could make a "milk" from DCCC for your coffee similar to the BTVC formula recipe. By whizzing it up in blender with water and then straining it well? Just thinking out loud here.
One issue with this is that our current dccc substitute is dripped goatgurt. Much too sour for coffee creamer (dh tried yougart in his coffee once. Not a hit







)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

http://www.realmilk.com/raw.html

Quote:

Raw milk has been used as a therapy in folk medicine - and even in the Mayo Clinic - for centuries. It has been used in the pre-insulin days to treat diabetes (I've tried it - it works), as well as eczema, intestinal worms, allergies, and arthritis, all for reasons which can be understood when we realize just what is in milk - such as the cortisone-like factor for allergies and eczema. [_Jane note: and joint stiffness, it's called the Wulzen Factor._]


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
One issue with this is that our current dccc substitute is dripped goatgurt. Much too sour for coffee creamer (dh tried yougart in his coffee once. Not a hit







)

Ewww, no. I would suggest coconut milk but that would not be "fanatical adherance."


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

can I make nut milk from the crispy almonds? I rinsed them before drying them out.

Where's the NT thread? I probably need to join that too since we are doing so many of those protocols.

Also who here is doing The Makers Diet? I'm really intrigued by that book and have been recomending it to others (even though we aren't following it ourselves). I am curious why you choose that one for your family and how long you expect to stay on the stages. I don't see us being able to move beyond the first stage of that diet if we were following it for quite a while. I am using some of his ideas to influence my scd though. I was a bit put off by his agressive marketing of his products.


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## vermontana (Oct 21, 2005)

Quote:

vermontana, are you in VT? I'm in the Rutland area
AmyD, I grew up in the Northeast Kingdom (waay NEastern VT), but now I'm in the middle of nowhere in waay upstate NY in the Adirondacks. I miss VT


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Haven't read everything, so I hope I'm not repeating what others have said.

Vitamineral green: I have this product, although I haven't used it lately. I was using something similar called "Greens First"
http://www.doctorsfornutrition.com/products.htm and it really bloated me out. My nutritionist said it was a great product, but not for someone with yeast issues.

Ringing in the ears: Seems like this can be caused by a lot of things...add another to this list. The one my nutritionist told me was excess fat in the blood can cause it-because of the small capillaries in the eardrum.


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## vermontana (Oct 21, 2005)

Well, I ordered BTVC. I think I'm going to try the SCD. It's probably going to be difficult, but hopefully worth it. One question: I have been off all grains for a mere two days, and I've been eating mostly eggs, kale, frozen cherries (I've been craving them for some reason), salmon and yogurt. So my question...should I be feeling so terrible already, from no grains perhaps? I am also taking a probiotic, with like 14 different cultures in it (but I just re read the label, and it also contains rice starch). Today my stomach has been worse than it has been in ages. I used to eat toast when I felt this rumbly and poopy, thinking the bread would *soak up* whatever was making me so gurgly.....No toast anymore!
I'm sure once the book arrives in the mail, I will understand much more.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Anybody here doing No Phenol? I gave some to my older dd (because she used to have yeast rashes all the time last summer and I thought it'd help her even though it hasn't been an issue since then.) Well, I only gave a small amount two times already over the last 3 days and each time it has constipated her. Does this mean that she doesn't need it?

Oh, little dd's allergist called today. (Yes, on Saturday!) He got the results of her IgE test and the only thing she came back positive for was wheat. Yippee! I expected many positives since there is such a high rate of false positives w/this type of test. I am still a bit leary though because I know she can still react to other foods. I'm still learning about the other types of allergy tests: ELISA, and others . . .

But . . . I actually got to eat some chicken tonight! I've been so afraid to eat anything but the things I knew she was okay with: beef, romaine, spaghetti squash, pears, eggs. That's about it. And now I can start introducing some new foods to her directly! And she just keeps getting better and better. This healing the gut thing is really working for us.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Firstly, congratulations Annikate!














I hope you had a delicious dinner. If you could post some of your allergy test knowledge my way, I'd appreciate it.

My lil' guy who wakes up between 20-50x (yes fifty) a night due to sleep apnea, confounded by a wicked sinusitis infection is definately allergic to something, and I cannot put my finger on it. We saw someone for cranial sacral last week and he took a nap following the session. When he woke up I noticed he looked different, well his right sinus infection is gone!! I thought he just had lil' apple cheeks, but no, they are filled w/pus







At least we are taking care of this as I would like to sleep more than 5 minutes at a time, or maybe a couple hrs or something. We are going back next week.

Let's see, what were my thoughts before the computer ate my post before....

Well, I have never ever heard of late onset autism, and this gives me such a need to start this diet yesterday. My oldest son, whom I felt dodged a bullet as well, had one vax at 5 months, HIB. He also had a similar birth and gestation like those here.....my diet was cruddy (think Oreos, the hydrogenated kind uke ), antibiotics during pregnancy for a UTI, vax for tetanus before I knew I was pregnant (yes, w/all that mercury), flu shot







, and rhogam (before they took the mercury out). Oh, and antibiotics during labor & I was given the choice of morphine or a section, took the morphine (hadn't slept in 3 days), he had trouble breathing, off to the NICU, tons of antibiotics, and some 'amazing' essential amino acid crap or something, in case my bm was no good. Sound familiar? I wisened up quite a bit, and my 2nd son's pregnancy was much much different and he was born gently at home unassisted. Although, I was still eating a ton of grains (whole grains mostly though, as I couldn't do wheat) and fish, and lots of veggies. Just lots of grains.

I degress.

Okay, can someone help me w/the enzymes. I got mine from Houston today, the No-phenol, zyne-prime, and peptizide. Can someone tell me which ones I take and w/what food, and which ones btw meals. And if I am mixing groups, what do I do?? Ex, smoothie w/coconut milk (fat) and berries (fruit). Do I take 2 enzymes or what?

I am reading the info on coconut milk yogurt w/interest, as it seems that I don't have to let it do its thing for the full 24 hrs. This is news to me. The only thing I have in my mind is that I use the pro-gurt starter, and it says that it is designed for a 24 hr yogurt, so I still feel like I should incubate it that long, no?

Oh, and for whatever reason, and I almost cannot explain why, just a total intuitive feeling or something, but I am drawn to the MD vs. SCD. (So much so that I'm thinking about going outside and eating a bowl of dirt







) As of today, I'm thinking of spreading the 40 days out to like 6 months or something. Can someone explain what the difference is btw a slow MD and SCD? *I* really can't see much of a difference, which means it might be quite obvious to everyone else









And I don't remember who it was who makes two meals for their family/ and then the hubby







I am so sorry you are going through this. I haven't realized just how lucky I am (in this regard anyway








) that hubby is totally behind me. In fact, he will do the diet w/us.

Okay, I'm off.







Just waiting for more yogurt jars so that I can have yogurt all the time (w/4 of us on the diet, we go through a lot of yogurt).


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Not sure which thread will have more info on this issue so I'm posting it here and at NT.

Anyone know much about the activator X butter oil? Could this help us? What about that high vitamin cod liver oil stuff? Thankfully dh just got a nice bonus this year (year end just happened for his company) so we have a little money to throw at this problem but I don't want to be throwing it away kwim? That stuff isn't cheap!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Oh, while I'm thinking of it, can I just say:

Damn you, you makers of the food pyramid for sucking a whole country into thinking we need 8-11 servings of grains A DAY to survive.

Thank you.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

One more question. I'm still feeling quite baffled about enzymes (even while taking them.) What is that book that is being refered to? Would reading that make it clearer what I should be taking and when and how much?

Thanks!

ETA- I finally found the place on that enzymestuff site that tells how to do it for yeast. Now I get it!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Oh, and for whatever reason, and I almost cannot explain why, just a total intuitive feeling or something, but I am drawn to the MD vs. SCD. (So much so that I'm thinking about going outside and eating a bowl of dirt )








I laughed out loud at that one! (heheee, still laughing . . .)

Gee, if I thought I could advise you on the allergy thing I would. I'm still learning too. I know that there are all kinds of tests and some say this one is best, others say no, that one is not reliable, blah blah. Truthfully, I picked the *only* allergist in our book who took our insurance and made an appointment. He suggested either blood test or prick test and I went with the lesser of 2 evils. The blood testing for the IgE type allergies is supposedly notorious for false positives but even so, I needed some, (*any*) guideline. I was at my wit's end.

This might explain a little:
http://www.food-allergy.org/

And BTW, this diet will totally help your ds's sleep problems...I can almost guarantee it. I am soooooo excited to announce that I am getting (on an almost-consistent basis 3 1/2 hours of UNINTERRUPTED sleep!) A HUGE HUGE HUGE improvement for dd!

In re: to enzymes, here's my take on it. Somebody else may post and say I'm wrong







but I'll give it a go:
We use Peptizyde for things like proteins: eggs, meat, peanut butter . . .
No Phenol for things like tomato sauce, spinach, bananas, other high phenolic foods
(I have only given dd our *overall* enzyme and just a *tiny* bit of No Phenol.) I use the others myself.

And Zyme Prime I haven't used but I *think* it's an overall one like the one I got from my homeopath and I use that for just about everything.

A note of caution: Start with just a little. Like 1/3 of a capsule - especially for the Peptizyde. I know that's especially strong. Better to start slowly than to suffer a horrid die off immediately. (My 2-yr. old reacted badly to her first ever dose and I only gave her a tiny bit.)

I am confused though about the Zyme Prime and the HN Zyme Prime. CAn anyone else help? I ordered the Zyme Prime (haven't opened it yet) thinking it was an *overall* enzyme? Is this true? AND, should I have ordered the HN Zyme Prime? What's the difference? I see that the reg. Zyme Prime is not on the approved SCD list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
One more question. I'm still feeling quite baffled about enzymes (even while taking them.) What is that book that is being refered to? Would reading that make it clearer what I should be taking and when and how much?
Here's the book:
Enzymes for Digestive Health and Nutritional Wealth: The Practical Guide for Digestive Enzymes

Her other one about Enzymes and Autism I haven't read yet but would like to. I think it might help more.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Well, I found the abstract but the results statement is sooooo vague, I wish I had access to the full article. I could probably get it through interlibrary loan, but that will take some time. PM me if interested in more details.

(1) Evaluation of the presence of bovine proteins in human milk as a possible cause of allergic symptoms in breast-fed children

Restani, Patrizia; Gaiaschi, Antonella; Plebani, Alessandro; Beretta, Barbara; Velona, Teresa; Cavagni, Giovanni; Poiesi, Claudio; Ugazio, Alberto G.; Galli, Corrado L.

Annals of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology, Volume 84, Number 3, March 2000, pp. 353-360(8)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum

BACKGROUND: It is generally believed that the elimination of certain foods from the diet of mothers during the lactation period produces a significant improvement in breast-fed children who develop allergic symptoms. Several studies have shown the presence of food proteins in human milk; on the other hand, no study has been able to correlate unequivocally the presence of these allergens in human milk with newborn sensitization.

OBJECTIVE: The aim of this study was to evaluate the presence of bovine proteins in breast milk. METHODS: Milk samples were separated by sodium dodecyl sulfate polyacrylamide gel electrophoresis (SDS-PAGE). To detect bovine proteins in human milk, immunoblotting was performed by using monoclonal antibodies (MA) specific for beta-lactoglobulin and bovine caseins.

RESULTS: The results of this study do not confirm the presence of bovine proteins in breast milk suggested by other authors and shows unequivocally that the conflicting results reported in the literature about the presence of betalactoglobulin in human milk are due to cross-reactivity between bovine milk proteins and human proteins.

CONCLUSIONS: Components other than bovine betalactoglobulin or caseins could be involved in the induction of allergic symptoms in exclusively breast-fed children.

----

This one might be interesting because they mention raw milk, though from the abstract it is unclear whether they mean raw milk (as in real milk!) or just milk that hasn't been cooked or turned into cheese.

(2) Maternal consumption of dairy products during pregnancy and lactation, and the development of cow's milk antibodies in the offspring.

Erkkola M, Kronberg-Kippila C, Savilahti E, Kenward MG, Salonen M, Ilonen J, Knip M, Akerblom HK, Virtanen SM.

Acta Paediatr. 2005 Jun;94(6):696-704.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=16188771

OBJECTIVE: To assess whether the maternal consumption of milk and milk products affects development of cow's milk (CM) antibodies in infants. DESIGN: A randomized pilot trial using food frequency questionnaires (mothers) and food records (infants).

SETTING: Families with a newborn infant with increased HLA-DQB1-conferred risk of type 1 diabetes and at least one first-degree relative affected by type 1 diabetes from 16 hospitals in Finland between April 1995 and November 1997. Subjects and intervention: Infants randomized to receive a hydrolysed formula when breast milk was not available during their first 6-8 mo (n=112). Of these, 13 dropped out by the age of 3 mo and two were excluded due to incomplete CM antibody data.

RESULTS: Maternal milk protein intake from cheese during pregnancy was inversely related to IgA-class antibody titres to beta-lactoglobulin (BLG) and casein (CAS) at 3 mo, and to IgA antibody titres to BLG at 6 mo. Maternal consumption of raw milk products during lactation was positively related to the development of IgA antibody titres to CAS at 6 mo, and inversely correlated to IgG antibody titres to bovine serum albumin (BSA) and IgA antibody titres to CAS at 2 y. Maternal cheese consumption was inversely related to the IgG antibody titres to CM formula and CAS and to the IgA antibody titres to CAS in early infancy.

CONCLUSIONS: Few associations were established between maternal CM protein intake and CM protein antibody levels in the infants. The milk and milk products taken by the mother differed in their impact on the emerging CM antibody response in the offspring.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Been really busy lately, but I have a quick question:

Are SCdophilus and ProGurt refrigerated products?

I'm trying to figure out why there is a huge price discrepency between these products available directly from GI Pro Health, and from the only place in Canada that currently carries them. I can understand if they need refrigeration, but otherwise, US$11 dollars more for SCdophilus definately seems excessive! Perhaps since they have exclusive rights currently to sell the product, they have free reign over the prices?!

GTR...


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Thanks Jane for the info about tinnitis -- I am definitely sensitive to glutamates, so it would make sense that glutamates cause ear ringing. And interesting that magnesium helps fight them. I take magnesium already though, and it's in green veggies and nuts, both of which I eat daily. Oh, well.
Speaking of partners, it took me awhile to cook some lamb shoulder blade chops tonight (I braised them), and ds didn't sit down to eat with us (as usual these days). So dh says to me that I shouldn't spend so much time on food that ds won't even eat. He really seems to get freaked out if I spend too much time in the kitchen (he even mentioned the total amount, and hour and a half -- didn't realize I was being timed!). Ugh! Then ds ends up eating it about an hour later, on his own. He just doesn't like sitting down to a family meal, for some reason. Maybe dh's glowering presence has something to do with it?


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
Been really busy lately, but I have a quick question:

Are SCdophilus and ProGurt refrigerated products?

I'm trying to figure out why there is a huge price discrepency between these products available directly from GI Pro Health, and from the only place in Canada that currently carries them. I can understand if they need refrigeration, but otherwise, US$11 dollars more for SCdophilus definately seems excessive! Perhaps since they have exclusive rights currently to sell the product, they have free reign over the prices?!

GTR...

TOH

Progurt is a refridgerated product. Don't know the other one. It was shipped in ice packs via fed ex. It is really lasting a long long time though. I bought it after we refinanced the house b/c it was so expensive, $45 w/shipping, but it really seems worth it now.


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*

Oh, and for whatever reason, and I almost cannot explain why, just a total intuitive feeling or something, but I am drawn to the MD vs. SCD. (So much so that I'm thinking about going outside and eating a bowl of dirt







) As of today, I'm thinking of spreading the 40 days out to like 6 months or something. Can someone explain what the difference is btw a slow MD and SCD? *I* really can't see much of a difference, which means it might be quite obvious to everyone else










The first phase of the MD is a lot like the SCD. It eliminates all simple sugars, but I have noticed that there are some things on the SCD legal list that are not on the MD list, like apple cider. Maybe someone else can explain this. Also, kosher foods are not on the MD list, while things like natural pork products appear on the SCD list. Also I'm not sure at what point during the SCD that you start to incorporate "illegal" foods...another point maybe someone can clear up. I should really read BTVC again. The other difference is the supplements, so I suppose you'd want to look at your personal needs. I know some people are turned off by the amound of different supplements discussed in MD, but having read the info, I can see how many people who have been on a SAD could really benefit from taking several of them just to rebalance their bodies. We were on a pretty good diet to begin with that included CLO, so we are supplementing with just one of the recommended products (Primal Defense). Stretching out this first phase is something that has crossed my mind too. I guess we'll see in another week how we are doing (currently on day 7)....but I'm really really looking forward to making (and eating!) some sourdough bread.

I have to say I've hardly had any cravings, and I've noticed that even my oldest who is on this plan sort of by default is eating a lot better as a result of not filling up on carbs.


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Btw, I am keeping a daily journal of our diet and experiences. Anyone else doing this with their diet?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Hibou*
Btw, I am keeping a daily journal of our diet and experiences. Anyone else doing this with their diet?
Yep, for myself and both dds. The longer I keep it the easier it's become to interpret it. I have to stay right on top of it though 'cause it's easy to forget!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
can I make nut milk from the crispy almonds? I rinsed them before drying them out.

Where's the NT thread? I probably need to join that too since we are doing so many of those protocols.

I don't see why not re: nut milk, it might be only a little saltier.

NT thread is in "Nutrition and Good Eating", a new one every month:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=417251


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vermontana*
Well, I ordered BTVC. I think I'm going to try the SCD. It's probably going to be difficult, but hopefully worth it. One question: I have been off all grains for a mere two days, and I've been eating mostly eggs, kale, frozen cherries (I've been craving them for some reason), salmon and yogurt. So my question...should I be feeling so terrible already, from no grains perhaps? I am also taking a probiotic, with like 14 different cultures in it (but I just re read the label, and it also contains rice starch). Today my stomach has been worse than it has been in ages. I used to eat toast when I felt this rumbly and poopy, thinking the bread would *soak up* whatever was making me so gurgly.....No toast anymore!
I'm sure once the book arrives in the mail, I will understand much more.

With a strong probiotic especially, die off can happen immediately.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Anybody here doing No Phenol? I gave some to my older dd (because she used to have yeast rashes all the time last summer and I thought it'd help her even though it hasn't been an issue since then.) Well, I only gave a small amount two times already over the last 3 days and each time it has constipated her. Does this mean that she doesn't need it?

Oh, little dd's allergist called today. (Yes, on Saturday!) He got the results of her IgE test and the only thing she came back positive for was wheat. Yippee! I expected many positives since there is such a high rate of false positives w/this type of test. I am still a bit leary though because I know she can still react to other foods. I'm still learning about the other types of allergy tests: ELISA, and others . . .

But . . . I actually got to eat some chicken tonight! I've been so afraid to eat anything but the things I knew she was okay with: beef, romaine, spaghetti squash, pears, eggs. That's about it. And now I can start introducing some new foods to her directly! And she just keeps getting better and better. This healing the gut thing is really working for us.

















Very good news!!

I think constipation might be because of the yeast dying off in this case? Usually No Fenol makes stools looser b/c it digests the fiber in vegetables.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
My lil' guy who wakes up between 20-50x (yes fifty) a night due to sleep apnea, confounded by a wicked sinusitis infection is definately allergic to something, and I cannot put my finger on it. We saw someone for cranial sacral last week and he took a nap following the session. When he woke up I noticed he looked different, well his right sinus infection is gone!! I thought he just had lil' apple cheeks, but no, they are filled w/pus







At least we are taking care of this as I would like to sleep more than 5 minutes at a time, or maybe a couple hrs or something. We are going back next week.

Let's see, what were my thoughts before the computer ate my post before....

Well, I have never ever heard of late onset autism, and this gives me such a need to start this diet yesterday. My oldest son, whom I felt dodged a bullet as well,Okay, can someone help me w/the enzymes. I got mine from Houston today, the No-phenol, zyne-prime, and peptizide. Can someone tell me which ones I take and w/what food, and which ones btw meals. And if I am mixing groups, what do I do?? Ex, smoothie w/coconut milk (fat) and berries (fruit). Do I take 2 enzymes or what?

I am reading the info on coconut milk yogurt w/interest, as it seems that I don't have to let it do its thing for the full 24 hrs. This is news to me. The only thing I have in my mind is that I use the pro-gurt starter, and it says that it is designed for a 24 hr yogurt, so I still feel like I should incubate it that long, no?

Oh, and for whatever reason, and I almost cannot explain why, just a total intuitive feeling or something, but I am drawn to the MD vs. SCD.


First of all







at the Food Pyramid rant!!! Yet another marketing ploy to make a brightly colored box of cheap toxic crap seem healthy. I actually hear this from mamas in playgroup, how it's so great now that companies are using whole grains.







I just plaster a smile on my face and bite my tongue until hurts!








to your poor little bunny. You must be insane with sleep deprivation, I thought I had it bad. You are thinking it's environmental allergies?

And







to your big little bunny too, geez, what a way to be welcomed into the world! I give you a ton of credit for doing the homebirth.

No, the 24 hr culturing for dairy is only to remove all lactose. (NOT that ProGurt is doing that IMO!!) I still haven't called the ProGurt co... and they are located 1 hr or less away from me too.

Generally for gut healing, at least 2 Houston's (Zyme Prime and Pep) at every meal and snack is what to aim for. No Fenol may be added this way as well. The idea is that if the proteases in the Pepitzyde are not being used for proteins that you are eating, they then enter the bloodstream or stay in intestines and do general clean up.

I can't even remember the particulars of MD initial stage vs. SCD my brain is a sieve. But I thought they were practically the same. At no point do you introduce illegals in the SCD until you have been on the diet for one year past the point that all symptoms stop.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I am confused though about the Zyme Prime and the HN Zyme Prime. CAn anyone else help? I ordered the Zyme Prime (haven't opened it yet) thinking it was an *overall* enzyme? Is this true? AND, should I have ordered the HN Zyme Prime? What's the difference? I see that the reg. Zyme Prime is not on the approved SCD list.

Here's the book:
Enzymes for Digestive Health and Nutritional Wealth: The Practical Guide for Digestive Enzymes

Her other one about Enzymes and Autism I haven't read yet but would like to. I think it might help more.

All Houston's enzymes are approved for SCD except the chewables. Elaine supposedly asked Devin Houston do to special cellulose filler enzymes marked for SCD b/c she didn't want people thinking rice brain was okay... except it's not rice bran but rice bran oil... ?









HN Zyme Prime and Zyme Prime are the same overall enzyme combination except for the filler added.

And both of Karen DeFelice's book are exactly the same as well. Just different titles for marketing purposes.
www.enzymestuff.com


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
Btw, I am keeping a daily journal of our diet and experiences. Anyone else doing this with their diet?

Yes, but some days/weeks are better than others!


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## vermontana (Oct 21, 2005)

I made the 24 hr yogurt with my raw milk yesterday, but I'm worried I did something wrong. I heated it to about 110 (I don't want to lose the raw goodness), added about 1/4 c plain Seven Stars yogurt, then wrapped the jar in a warm towel, and put it in a cooler with about 100 degree water in it. I checked it after about 10 hrs and it was tart, but very watery/runny, and even now, after a full 24 hrs it sure is tart, but it's super runny, like thick, clumpy milk. Is this how it's supposed to be? If not, is there a way I can fix it? I can get my milk for cheap, but still, it would suck to have ruined a whole quart!

Well, I was just thinking, I think all you ladies are mamas, and dealing with not only your own issues, but especially your dc's as well.....and I'm just wondering if it's still okay for me to hang out here if I'm just dealing with my *own* gut issues, and I'm not a mama yet.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Raw milk yogurt tends to be less solid, not sure why. Whether it's the structure of the proteins or what. I usually just drink it as opposed to eating w/ spoon. If a want a thicker yogurt to eat, I drip it. (And drink whey or use to ferment veggies.)

Also, whether you mix the starter in very well is an issue, sometimes it can cause clumps if not very smoothly incorporated.

What was the temp of the yogurt after 24 hrs? It's really not possible to ruin raw milk yogurt unless you overheat it... but all the lactose might not be converted. Although if it's super tart that's obviously a good sign. It sounds like you erred on the side of low temperature. Acidophilus needs to be above 100 to grow effectively. If raw milk is not kept there, other stuff can grow (not _necessarily_ bad).

OF COURSE you can stick around!








The more people, the more experiences we have to learn from.


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## vermontana (Oct 21, 2005)

Quote:

What was the temp of the yogurt after 24 hrs? It's really not possible to ruin raw milk yogurt unless you overheat it... but all the lactose might not be converted. Although if it's super tart that's obviously a good sign. It sounds like you erred on the side of low temperature. Acidophilus needs to be above 100 to grow effectively. If raw milk is not kept there, other stuff can grow (not necessarily bad).

OF COURSE you can stick around!
The more people, the more experiences we have to learn from.
Yeah, it probably was not warm enough the whole 24 hours. Our house is very cold, and I think the yogurt probably got down to more like 95 overnight, but I added more hot water in the a.m......So, you say I probably didn't ruin it, but then you make me nervous that if it wasn't warm enough "other stuff" is in there...Are the Others bad for me?

Thanks for being so nice!!!!


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

I am ready to add some enzymes and was just wondering if anyone has a favorite place to buy these? Thanks!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I'm always posting questions. I thought I would post an update instead.

We have been following scd for 4 weeks tonight.

Before we started it usually took 45+ min to nurse/rock dd to sleep for naps. And 1+ hours to nurse/rock her to sleep for bed. (often 2 hours for either one). It has now become normal for her to fall asleep for her nap in under 15 min. She will then sleep for about and hour, wake up and I will nurse her back to sleep for another hour or so. Sometimes a total of 2.5 hours of nap! More than ever before in her life. Today she woke up from her nap while I was in the shower and she let dh rock her back to sleep and put her back down! She only slept another 30 min but 2 months ago even that wouldn't have happened.

At night it now takes under an hour most nights to get her to sleep and if her teething pain is under control and she isn't sick, she sleeps 4-5 hours in one stretch at the begining of the night. This is longer than ever before in her life. Before this diet it was 2 hours, tops. Sometimes up every hour or less.

She is also, for the first time, allowing me to put her off when she wants to nurse. I can use delay tactics if I think she is just asking cause she is bored or I am sitting in a "nursing chair". I never could do this before. It gives me such freedom!

Just thought I would share how far we have come in 4 short weeks. Thank you Jane for inviting me over here and giving us the information we needed to change our lives.


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

I went to my local HFS and browsed through their enzyme shelf. These were the brands that they had there...anyone have anything good/bad to say about any of them? Just wondering if I could go a bit cheaper than the enzymedica....I don't mind getting the more expensive stuff if it really is superior...but if we can save a buck or so...









TIA-

Solar Ray
Nature's Life
Bluebonnet
Rainbow Light
Nature's Plus


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Oh, I forgot to ask...
Was it on this thread or somewhere else I was reading (it all starts to run together after a while) about something (sugars?) making the person feel and act a bit "drunk" or giddy after eating it? Can someone tell me a bit more about that?
I think ds has this problem, but I need to refresh my memory.
Thanks ya'll!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:

Was it on this thread or somewhere else I was reading (it all starts to run together after a while) about something (sugars?) making the person feel and act a bit "drunk" or giddy after eating it? Can someone tell me a bit more about that?
This has been talked about recently on the pecan bread yahoo group. It is autointoxication and an indication of yeast overgrowth. I'm sure I have it as well as dd. Cutting out fruit at bedtime has greatly reduced her need to be super chatty at that time







Yes my 2 year old is a chatty drunk.


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Quote:

Cutting out fruit at bedtime has greatly reduced her need to be super chatty at that time Yes my 2 year old is a chatty drunk.
Thanks! That is exactly what happened tonight! UGh!!!

Quote:

...and an indication of yeast overgrowth
I've decided that yeast is actually the root of all evil.








Everything that's wrong with me or my family seems to be yeast related.
Do you think that I can blame us not being rich on yeast? That would be awsome! Fix the yeast problem, and money would fall out of the sky!
Geez, I should just go to bed now. I'm sounding a bit odd...








'Night all!


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## vermontana (Oct 21, 2005)

Gosh, I have a lot of questions.....If I am just beginning to heal my gut, and my digestion and absorption are still pretty poor, am I wasting my time and money taking supplements? I take a B complex and CLO caps daily, but I am wondering if my body is even able to do anything with them right now. SHould I wait til I've been on the SCD for a little while, then go back to the supplements? I was taking a zinc supp daily for a long time, but I don't think it did anything (the white spots on my nails actually have gotten worse), so that has made me think I am not even able to incorporate that stuff yet.








By the way, Happy Spring everyone!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Yes, yeast is definitely the root of all evil for us as well. Has anyone ever tried the probiotics from Klare labs? http://www.klaire.com/


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

That Klaire labs one is the probiotic that turned ds eyes yellow and his poop green!


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Has anyone else's dc been nursing considerably more since you've switched your diet? My ds has been nursing tons. He's also been more moody and clingy. I am so hungry I feel like I am snacking all day long, and I'm not sure if it's because of the nursing or from not having any carbs. I try to keep snacks out for the kids too so they can eat whenever, and put extra fat/oil in everything to keep our batteries charged, but I feel like I'm running out of steam. I'm just worried that maybe the extra nursing is because he's hungry? Any thoughts?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ugh! I screwed up today. I'm tired of battling with dd about her enzymes in juice so I had the bright idea to mix them with some raw honey. Worked great! She loved them, but come time for her nap an hour later she could not fall asleep. I'm sure it was the honey. It just makes sense. Back to the drawing board on that one. Anyone have any good ideas for getting enzymes into kids that doesn't involve much sugar? She refuses to eat any food I sprinkle it onto so that doesn't work. Hmmm...could I put it into jello some how? She loves jello right now....


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

DS gets his enzymes, minerals, vit. C and CLO in 1/4 c. water plus 1/4 c. juice (pear, pineapple or cherry). Shaken in a covered sippy. Works very well for us.

Edited to say: jello would work if you immediately refrigerate it I think? Enzyme activity is stopped by cold, but they are activated by liquids. Check Enzyme Stuff site, I know there is a page of recommended ways to hide them.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'm always posting questions. I thought I would post an update instead.

We have been following scd for 4 weeks tonight.

Before we started it usually took 45+ min to nurse/rock dd to sleep for naps. And 1+ hours to nurse/rock her to sleep for bed. (often 2 hours for either one). It has now become normal for her to fall asleep for her nap in under 15 min. She will then sleep for about and hour, wake up and I will nurse her back to sleep for another hour or so. Sometimes a total of 2.5 hours of nap! More than ever before in her life. Today she woke up from her nap while I was in the shower and she let dh rock her back to sleep and put her back down! She only slept another 30 min but 2 months ago even that wouldn't have happened.

At night it now takes under an hour most nights to get her to sleep and if her teething pain is under control and she isn't sick, she sleeps 4-5 hours in one stretch at the begining of the night. This is longer than ever before in her life. Before this diet it was 2 hours, tops. Sometimes up every hour or less.

She is also, for the first time, allowing me to put her off when she wants to nurse. I can use delay tactics if I think she is just asking cause she is bored or I am sitting in a "nursing chair". I never could do this before. It gives me such freedom!

Just thought I would share how far we have come in 4 short weeks. Thank you Jane for inviting me over here and giving us the information we needed to change our lives.

Oh Patty, I'm literally tearing up over here. I know the frustration only too well of what you've been through. This is so very wonderful to hear. I hope it just continues to get better and better.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
Oh, I forgot to ask...
Was it on this thread or somewhere else I was reading (it all starts to run together after a while) about something (sugars?) making the person feel and act a bit "drunk" or giddy after eating it? Can someone tell me a bit more about that?
I think ds has this problem, but I need to refresh my memory.
Thanks ya'll!

Yes, drunk is a good word for it b/c yeast and bacteria produce alcohol like toxins. When my gut was really bad, one glass of wine was like 3... I assume b/c I was producing my own alcohol regularly







:

Gluten and casein peptides (incompletely broken down proteins) can also cause this, acting like opiates in the body.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2zsel*
I am ready to add some enzymes and was just wondering if anyone has a favorite place to buy these? Thanks!

I think they are only available at their website http://www.houstonni.com/


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Jane- What vitamin c do you give? I got some the other day for my cold and then discovered illegals in it. I don't feel confident that she will drink 1/2 cup worth of liquid all at once. That is why I go with the 1/2 a shot glass worth. Oh and she loves her clo so I won't deprive her by hiding that in anything (weird kid) AND does that kerry butter come in unsalted? I was thinking about making ghee out of it but I saw that mine is salted and I didn't see any other kind in costco but I know that doesn't mean much. What other brands of grassfed butter are out there?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
I went to my local HFS and browsed through their enzyme shelf. These were the brands that they had there...anyone have anything good/bad to say about any of them? Just wondering if I could go a bit cheaper than the enzymedica....I don't mind getting the more expensive stuff if it really is superior...but if we can save a buck or so...









TIA-

Solar Ray
Nature's Life
Bluebonnet
Rainbow Light
Nature's Plus

The Fat Wallet trick I posted above for Vitamin Shoppe saves a bunch of $.
Also Karen DeFelice also recommends Thropps which tends to be cheaper, but doesn't have high cellulase or high protease products separately like Enzymedica or Houston's do.

http://www.enzymestuff.com/basicsproductguidelines.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Jane- What vitamin c do you give? I got some the other day for my cold and then discovered illegals in it. I don't feel confident that she will drink 1/2 cup worth of liquid all at once. That is why I go with the 1/2 a shot glass worth. Oh and she loves her clo so I won't deprive her by hiding that in anything (weird kid) AND does that kerry butter come in unsalted? I was thinking about making ghee out of it but I saw that mine is salted and I didn't see any other kind in costco but I know that doesn't mean much. What other brands of grassfed butter are out there?

I don't think the amount of liquid matters, just enough to cover taste. I'm mean... I usually give the juice mixture right before he eats, so he drinks half of it before he gets his food. Then other half during dinner. Then a couple sips of pure water to rinse his teeth afterwards.

My C combo right now is a pinch of sodium ascorbate and a pinch of bioflavonoids:

http://www.iherb.com/bioflavonoid.html

It's not ideal. I'm still trying to find a natural C powder without fillers, there doesn't seem to be any. (Maltodextrin is big culprit in Acerola, Amla and Camu Camu ).

Yes Kerrygold comes in unsalted but not as widely available (salted is in 2 regular grocery stores near me but only Whole Foods carries unsalted).

Other grass fed butters:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...42#post4586742


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I give the shot glass of juice right before she eats too. If I just gave her a glass of juice there is a 50/50 chance she wouldn't touch it at all that meal or just have a small sip. She rarely finishes any significant ammount of liquid at a meal.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Just for interest's sake...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Acidophilus needs to be above 100 to grow effectively. If raw milk is not kept there, other stuff can grow (not _necessarily_ bad).

That will probably end up with a product closer to buttermilk:

MAKING CULTURED BUTTERMILK FROM SCRATCH

1. Allow a cup of filtered fresh raw milk to sit covered at room temperature until it has clabbered (usually several days).
2. Place 1/4 cup of the clabbered milk in a pint mason jar, add a cupof fresh milk (does not have to be raw at this point), cover, shake to mix, allow to sit at room temperature until clabbered.
3. Repeat this transfer of sub-culturing several more times until the milk dependably clabbers in 24 hours. Taste a small amount to confirm that it is tart, thickened, and has no off flavors.
4. To then make a quart of buttermilk with this culture, add 6 ounces of the buttermilk to a quart jar, fill with fresh milk, cover, shake to mix, allow to sit at room temperature until clabbered.
5. Refrigerate.

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser...BUTTERMILK.HTM


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

I have been reading and reading and am fascinated w/ all the info and everyone's stories. I really admire your dedication to the health of your children and yourselves. I started reading here as I think I have some issues that need to be addressed but am not really sure. Overall I am pretty healthy but do have some digestive problems. How do I know for sure if the SCD or something similar is what I need? Forgive me if I should have found this answer already but I am wondering about the duration of the dietary changes and what type of plan you follow later on. Is SCD or similar a year or two plan and then you phase into something else? I am guessing that you need a strict diet to do the healing and then are able to bring back some things previously not tolerated. I would love a short rundown of this if anyone has the time to address it. If there is somewhere else I should look just lmk!


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Something I'm still not clear on- should we be avoiding foods that trigger an allergic rxn while on this diet? I can' figure out whether it's best to eat them or avoid them.







:


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:

Has anyone else's dc been nursing considerably more since you've switched your diet? My ds has been nursing tons.
mine did this when i started NT--not sure if they're doing it as i ease into scd.

patty--i wish i had more time to type. i was just thinking about posting our sleep problems. i have always had to hold my girls to get them to take naps at all! still do. i thought it was because they were twins or teething or that it was somehow what we were really "supposed" to do (in contrast to sleep training). they still wake up every hour or so (it's slowly getting longer--i couldn't leave them for a minute ALL NIGHT until they wer about 8 months old--they are still often attached at the nipple all night, tho that's rare now). i'm still not sure what to make of it.







i really hope the scd helps. it's affecting their poops already!

i'd really like to talk more about the sleep stuff... but as they sleep with me, i'm never "off," iykwim.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
Something I'm still not clear on- should we be avoiding foods that trigger an allergic rxn while on this diet? I can' figure out whether it's best to eat them or avoid them.







:

BTVC says to avoid foods that cause Anaphylactic Shock. It's not clear if you should avoid foods that you know can cause less severe allergic reactions (or foods that cause sensitivities), but my gut tells me I should avoid them (for my DS) anyway.

Annikate wrote a while back about her DD having a sensitivity/allergy to salicylates in almonds (a big part of SCD). firefaery suggested using organic almonds -- organic almonds are typically allowed to ripen longer which results in lower levels of salicylates. So in some instances, there may be ways to help reduce a reaction to problematic foods.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Re: tinnitus

This has been connected to mineral deficiencies.

I've been offline for 11 days, am just now catching up. Do you know which minerals? I'd read this before - I have this. It's also a sign of mercury poisoning, but if I can supplement the correct minerals, I'd love to make a difference here. I'm currently taking Acerola C, selenium (Country Life), magnesium and boron (Bluebonnet chelated) in addition to All One powder, chlorophyll and CLO (Carlson's). I'm thinking of taking Country Life's Total Mins plus additional Magnesium. Any thoughts?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Chasmyn, see another post of mine above with links.

Chewable vitamin C is murder on your tooth enamel.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

First a question. I've been having bad leg cramps at night. Any thoughts on what I can take to get more calcium? That usually fixes them.

Hibou- My dd is actually nursing less now. It probably let up a week or so into this diet. I don't know that she could have possibly nursed more. She was still nursing every 30 to 90 min round the clock when we started this often 30+ min sessions. I know I felt terrible when I started this diet so that could expain the extra nursing.
In btvc she says that if a food causes a reaction to avoid it. Try it again in a few weeks an if it still causes a reaction to permanently exclude it. Anaphalatic foods should always be avoided.

Nicolena- I hear you on not getting any down time. I can't imagine twins that are as needy as dd.







This diet has made such a huge difference for dd in the sleep department. I can't stop singing it's praises. It isn't perfect by a long shot but so much better than it was. I have come to realize that I have been basically living in crisis mode since she was born. Most mothers of newborns do but since my dd still is so dependant on me 24 hours a day, and as she lets up slightly life doesn't let having a kid be an excuse for not doing things so all the slack it taken up with regular life. In fact I think it is harder now than when she was a nb cause then I had an excuse that people understood and accepted. Now I don't. I may need post traumatic stress counseling when this is all said and done. Not only does my dd need me with her to sleep but she gets so overstimulated by being out places (and has since she was a nb) that I can't take her with me to evening meetings or events. I rarely go out in the evening and that is only if dh will be home with her. We have had 2 dates since she was born, both 5:00 dinners so that we could get her bedtime routine started at 7 pm and have a prayer of a decent nights sleep.

The good news is that I went to the chiro today and he said that I am checking the healthiest that he has ever seen me.







This is working on my issues too!


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Chasmyn, see another post of mine above with links.

Chewable vitamin C is murder on your tooth enamel.









Was about to post that I saw that post as I read on - thanks!










Can you recommend a brand of powder? I'm having difficulty finding any. Maybe I'm searching incorrectly?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

My dd seemed to be extra hungry when we began too, as did my older non-nursing dd. Something to do with the healing I think.

Here's something strange that I just noticed that I wanted to run by you all:
I just noticed that dd's (11 mo. old) breath smells like SULFUR today. What do you make of that? First time I've ever noticed and she's still only mostly b'feeding but eating small amounts of solids. Today she had bananas and butternut squash.

Patty, my legs have been cramping at night lately too and I've been supplementing w/a cal/mag combo. Weird. I hadn't had leg cramps in a really long time.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Another kind of OT question:
My dh's doc suggested he take "fish oil". He won't go near my COL







so what should I buy for him? Any recommendations?
Thanks.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Another kind of OT question:
My dh's doc suggested he take "fish oil". He won't go near my COL







so what should I buy for him? Any recommendations?
Thanks.

I am just beginning to read all the info here so I don't have any really informed advice but just read something interesting from Dr. Weil. He recommends one called Antarctic Krill Oil for Omega 3's. Just thought I would throw that out there for any other input.
I had a question about CLO which I think someone else might have touched on. Atlantic and Icelandic cod are high in Mercury and Pacific cod is considered lower but not as low as some other fish (it is a "sometimes" fish as opposed to a "twice a week" fish on a few fish charts I have). Do the CLO's tell the source? I think I remember reading something about CLO recently and it might have said the oil is processed in a way that it removes mercury rather than concentrating it. Anyone know about that? My instinct would say that since it comes from an internal organ it would actually concentrate the mercury even more than eating the fish?


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## Peri Patetic (Feb 16, 2006)

Here's a great article on how CLO is made:

http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfo...nufacture.html


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Another kind of OT question:
My dh's doc suggested he take "fish oil". He won't go near my COL







so what should I buy for him? Any recommendations?
Thanks.

You can get CLO in flavored gel caps. Nordic Naturals has great flavors. Maybe he'd be okay with that?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

nak- I just found legal C powder at trader joes!


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

I just got my first batch of organic raw milk from pastured cows








Can't wait to get started on my first batch of yogurt and kefir (did I mention I just got my first milk grains today too!)

I also LOVE that this same farmer has organic free-range pastured eggs and organic raw clover honey.

His prices are also out of this world -- cheaper than all of the non-organic stuff in-stores!

I'm in heaven!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
I have been reading and reading and am fascinated w/ all the info and everyone's stories. I really admire your dedication to the health of your children and yourselves. I started reading here as I think I have some issues that need to be addressed but am not really sure. Overall I am pretty healthy but do have some digestive problems. How do I know for sure if the SCD or something similar is what I need? Forgive me if I should have found this answer already but I am wondering about the duration of the dietary changes and what type of plan you follow later on. Is SCD or similar a year or two plan and then you phase into something else? I am guessing that you need a strict diet to do the healing and then are able to bring back some things previously not tolerated. I would love a short rundown of this if anyone has the time to address it. If there is somewhere else I should look just lmk!









Welcome

It depends on the problems and how severe they are ... and what your diet consists of now. Sorry to be so vague. But digestive enzymes and probiotics can go a long way to helping, but if your diet still consists of foods which irritate the gut, stuff you cannot digest, you probably need to change.

SCD is for intestinal flora imbalance which definately has a hand in most digestive problems. See www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info, the Beginners section and the Science Behind the Diet there too.

However, several pages back when I was talking about Nourishing Traditions type of diet (soaking all grains, cod liver oil, bone broths, yogurt and fermented foods, traditional fats) this is a very healing diet as well.

It really depends on your particular digestion.









When I first started the SCD I noticed a enormous difference right away, so that told me it was right for me. Plus when I was deciding to commit to it or not, I ate non-SCD and all the symptoms came back: gas, bloating, undigested food, soft stool, insomnia, etc. It was very clear for me


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

chasmyn, I special ordered some Nutribiotic sodium ascorbate from PCC natural. No additives!

Hibou, I made the not-quite dosas, and loved them. Jury's still out for dh and ds -- ds is sleeping. Oh, and he does ask to nurse a lot if we stay home and he snacks on fruit, which he does constantly if we don't leave.

Speaking of ds, I'm feeling like I have to take him somewhere every day just to keep him from the fruit (he snacks on both fresh and dried fruit all day when home, which I can't seem to curtail). Today, he went to a special preschool program, so he was away from food for a couple hours, then he ate the lunch I packed him which did contain some applesauce and some blueberries in yogurt, but also an egg, some chicken, some cheese, and a pecan mini-muffin, all of which he ate (he never eats this good at home -- I present him with this kind of food, and he goes and gets some fruit and eats it instead). We're trying to do non-coercive parenting, so it makes all-out forbidding of fruit not an option, but I am doing almost as bad by nagging him about it. Ugh!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

For the leg cramps...I would do a combo of magnesium and calcium. I always recommend Natural Vitality. They have just mag, cal/mag or ca/mag/potassium.

For trigger foods...If it's not anaphalactic it's really up to you. The food is not causing the damage, the body is simply reacting to them because of the existing damage. If the symptoms/reactions are too much for you or the kids to handle you can back off a bit. But it isn't furthering any damage. Ds was "allergic" to eggs. His main symptom was hyperactivity. If it got really bad, I just cut back on eggs. He can now do them just fine. There are also supplements you can take to diminish the reactions. Hope that helps.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Siobhana,*
Yippee! That's awesome! I left raw milk out once to make natural cream cheese or something, when I first started getting it. And boy was it









*Mehera,*
Oy, I just read a bit of your blog. I'll NEVER complain about my one DS and his sleeping again!! P.S. your girls sure are CUTE









*Terri,*
Fish oil is not recommended for some reason I cannot pin down, something to do with the PUFA ratio. Probably also the lack of vitamins .... vitamin A and D in CLO is very necessary in the diet. Cod liver oil is what you want, the Berry Keen or Peach stuff from Nordic Naturals tastes the best for kids (sadly are low in A and D though.)

*Re: Krill oil*
I thought this was lower in EPA and DHA than cod liver oil. I used to love Dr. Weil but some stuff he is dead wrong on. Don't know enough about this subject to say that this is one of those times.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm looking at whole vitamin C powders now which I don't think have fillers, I'll be super excited if that is the case. Have a couple of emails out to confirm before I order YET ANOTHER vitamin C product for my cabinet









http://www.iherb.com/amla.html

http://www.iherb.com/amlac.html

http://www.synergy-co.com/pages/pure-radiance.html

Edited to say:
My issue with sodium ascorbate/ascorbic acid etc. is that they are chemical and they do not contain bioflavoniods that are in food sources of C. It is said that a whole foods vitamin source works many many times better than the chemical version, which may contain only 2 sides of a 3 dimensional structure. (something like that, hey I'm tired







)

Anyways for everyday supplementation that is why I'd rather rely on a whole C than the chemical stuff. Saving sodium ascorbate for times of sickness.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I may need post traumatic stress counseling when this is all said and done.

I don't know what to say about this right now b/c in a way I've just walled up that side of me in order to function at high alert most of the time. But I think it's a very interesting point. All of us have probably suffered more than just gut damage here.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Oh boy Patty, I was just talking to dh tonight about that post traumatic stress counseling thing and we can surely relate! DH always says, "We are still healing." Well, at least we're on the road to recovery. About 5 weeks ago I couldn't have said that and wouldn't have believed that it could get better. There were some very dark days and weeks. Whew!

Hey, we're just lucky to be where we are eh? Things can only improve now.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I'm thinking of ordering some raw blanched almonds from Ozark. Does blanched mean that I don't have to soak them?

Re: the soaking. Tried some pecans (not soaked) and they hurt me! Tried some after soaking and









When I get some time I'm going to have to read NT and join that thread too. Everytime I read about NT now I think of going outside and eating some dirt. (Thanks AmyD!)


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I made some muffins and bread from my soaked nuts. Not impressed. I did some other stuff different too so I'm not sure what went wrong. I have some apple juice concentrate that I used to sweeten it. It is suddenly hitting me. Is honey 2x as sweet as sugar? Apple juice concentrate is as sweet as sugar so I substituted it 1:1 for the honey in the recipe and was cutting the honey in half to not feed our yeasties... Next time I'll just make one and taste it first.

Pookietooth- we don't have the same parenting approach so take this with a grain of salt but I really think you will need to set some firm limits on the fruit, esp the dried fruit if you want him to heal. Those beasties in your belly cry out for sugar to feed them and it is really hard to say no. It is really hard as an adult who can think the whole thing through logically. It is like they take over your brain. I don't know that a young child can fight against that without help. We have just put all the dried fruit in the basement. We put it there while dd was sleeping so she has no idea where it went. She is currently only allowed cooked foods except for bananas so that holds her back in the fruit departement as well since any fruit I have to get for her. I do give her some but not at bedtime or nap time. Much as she may want it at those times it is counter productive to her sleeping (which she also wants).


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

I need some advise please. I'm going to be getting some enzymes and have been studying them diligently. But Houston's No-Fenol says that

PHP Code:

```
[CODE]<span style="color:#000000;"><span style="color:#0000BB;">This product may not be appropriate </span><span style="color:#007700;">for </span><span style="color:#0000BB;">those with known allergies to Aspergillus enzyme proteins</span><span style="color:#007700;">, </span><span style="color:#0000BB;">though non</span><span style="color:#007700;">-</span><span style="color:#0000BB;">specific mold allergies </span><span style="color:#007700;">do </span><span style="color:#0000BB;">not necessarily preclude </span><span style="color:#007700;">use </span><span style="color:#0000BB;">of fungal enzymes</span><span style="color:#007700;">. <br></span> </span>
```
 [/CODE]

Now, I have some SERIOUS fungal allergies. Should I not take this? I don't really know what Aspergillus is.
All of their products aren't fungal based are they? (can't remember right now...)

And thanks Jane for the link to the Vitamin Shoppe place. Will probably be placing an order there tonight.








Well, we're off to the land of GOOD digestion!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

At least zyme prime and peptizyde both have 2 formulations...one that's fungal derived, and one that's pineapple and papaya derived. They fungal derived ones taste much better though. Ds has an allergy to aspergillus and used the fungal derived without an issue. Don't know if that helps.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

I was very worried about the aspergillus too because of our mold allergies (major), but we have all done well with enzymes. No problems.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

We were between a rock and a hard place because ds was allergic to mold as well as pineapple. I tried both and even contacted the company. I would encourage you to do the same. They really put my mind at ease. Because of the way the enzymes are made it really isn't an issue, but they do want to keep their consumers informed.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Yea! It looks like my solgar calcium citrate is legal


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Thanks you guys for your responses. I think I will give the companies a call and see what they have to say.
Do I understand correctly that these enzymes may not taste so wonderful (or at all?) So, in your opinion, would it be better to get the capsules? I'm wondering about my children...if it would be a waste to get the powder if it's so awful tasting that they just won't eat anything with the enzymes in it.
Thanks again!


----------



## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Welcome

It depends on the problems and how severe they are ... and what your diet consists of now. Sorry to be so vague. But digestive enzymes and probiotics can go a long way to helping, but if your diet still consists of foods which irritate the gut, stuff you cannot digest, you probably need to change.

SCD is for intestinal flora imbalance which definately has a hand in most digestive problems. See www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info, the Beginners section and the Science Behind the Diet there too.

However, several pages back when I was talking about Nourishing Traditions type of diet (soaking all grains, cod liver oil, bone broths, yogurt and fermented foods, traditional fats) this is a very healing diet as well.

It really depends on your particular digestion.









When I first started the SCD I noticed a enormous difference right away, so that told me it was right for me. Plus when I was deciding to commit to it or not, I ate non-SCD and all the symptoms came back: gas, bloating, undigested food, soft stool, insomnia, etc. It was very clear for me

Thanks. That is helpful info to get me started. I have the NT book and have been gradually working toward that lifestyle. I will read more about SCD and see what makes sense for me.


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

OK-I posted this in Dental over the weekend and did not get a response. I am coming here to you mama's because I know some of you have had dental issues worked on while nursing.

I broke a molar over the weekend-filled with an old filling. Went to the dentist today-just a local office on my dental plan. She recommended a crown-too much of the tooth is filled and the break was an entire corner. Also, to ramp up the fear-she felt there was decay under the old filling and that left untreated, could lead to a root canal in the very near future.

I voiced my concerns about doing anything with the filling while nursing-she only mentioned that the anestisia (sp) was safe. When I asked about the mercury filling being removed while nursing, she dismissed it quickly. On my way out of the office (without scheduling the procedure) she asked how old my youngest was-think she was trying to decide just how much of a freak I was!!







:

What would you do??? I am going to look for a dentist that follows the standards for mercury removal and get a second opinion. But this is really hitting us in the wallet as well as stressing me out-I have a huge fear of the dentist! I would rather go though unmedicated labor and delivery three days in a row then have a 45 minute procedure done!!!

I appreciate all of your help-thanks!


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

: I am new here. I am taking notes because of ds excema and my gut could use alittle healing, YKWIM?

About the Asperilla fungus, we saw a homeopath that said our infertility was due to fungus!! He gave me and dh LOTS of remedies for the fungus and our IVF worked on the first go!

The doc's take was that all virus, fingus, bacteria have a frequency emitting energy source. He had a machine and put a device next to my ear and did put out different frequencies. He healed my chronic bladder infections and my husband's semen never burned me again. The machine is used widely in Germany, I think he said. After the treatment, if me and dh got a cold, it lasted only 24 hrs!

Also, I am waiting to hear JaneS doctor appt









Going back to







:


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## Music-mommy (Jan 8, 2005)

Has anyone heard of or developed a histamine rash during a detox program? My dh has been doing a detox from his naturopath for the last couple of months, but has been on this healing the gut journey for a year and half, we started with a candida program.

However in the last 2 weeks he's developed a horribly itchy histamine rash all over his body. He also has a fungal rash, but that's a different thing.

I was just wondering if perhaps it's part of the detox, or of it's something totatlly different. We don't use harsh detergents or soaps so it's not a laundry issue.


----------



## Music-mommy (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2zsel*
OK-I posted this in Dental over the weekend and did not get a response. I am coming here to you mama's because I know some of you have had dental issues worked on while nursing.

I broke a molar over the weekend-filled with an old filling. Went to the dentist today-just a local office on my dental plan. She recommended a crown-too much of the tooth is filled and the break was an entire corner. Also, to ramp up the fear-she felt there was decay under the old filling and that left untreated, could lead to a root canal in the very near future.

I voiced my concerns about doing anything with the filling while nursing-she only mentioned that the anestisia (sp) was safe. When I asked about the mercury filling being removed while nursing, she dismissed it quickly. On my way out of the office (without scheduling the procedure) she asked how old my youngest was-think she was trying to decide just how much of a freak I was!!







:

What would you do??? I am going to look for a dentist that follows the standards for mercury removal and get a second opinion. But this is really hitting us in the wallet as well as stressing me out-I have a huge fear of the dentist! I would rather go though unmedicated labor and delivery three days in a row then have a 45 minute procedure done!!!

I appreciate all of your help-thanks!

I asked my lll leader about local anasthetic from the dentist and she said it does not affect your breast milk. My dentist had recommended pumping and dumping for the next 4 hours, but my llll leader assured me that wasn't necessary.

As for mercury, my dentist told me that they put one of those rubber things over your tooth so that none of the mercury gets in your mouth or anything. Just think how much healthier you'll be without that mercury filling in your mouth.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

mom2zsel, please don't go to that dentist! I had amalgams removed while b'feeding dd at 3 months old and I'm SURE that this contributed to the problems we're having now. Call a dentist that follows proper protocol.
See this link http://www.iaomt.org/ and ask JaneS about it too.









If I could go back and do it again I NEVER would have had mine removed (for new fillings) unless I went to a dentist that knows about mercury poisoning. BTW, I was also told by LLL people that the novacaine wouldn't be harmful. It's the old amalgam fillings that are the problem!


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Okay, I just need to think out loud here. We are on day 10 of the Maker's Diet, and I don't see much difference from being on our traditional foods diet. Either that means that our bodies were already pretty healthy so we haven't had any sugar withdrawl, etc., or that nothing's happening! Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but ds still gets bright red cheeks throughout the day after meals, and his skin is still dry and rough. I don't know whether we should extend phase 1 of the Maker's or just go back to our NT diet, and be REALLY strict about not cheating. I feel hungry all day long and the kids nag me for snacks and food. Why are we so hungry? We are eating lots of fat and meat, not to mention loads of veggies, plus fermented foods and I'm eating almost a can of coconut milk per day alone. Is hunger a symptom of something that I'm unaware of? I'm also nursing all day long, and feeling frustrated and tired, and worn out from trying to meet everyone's needs but my own!!! Plus, dh went off to work pissy with me because I haven't been paying him sufficient attention







. Okay, thanks for listening mamas, I feel a little better with that off my chest.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

I have no advice as I am new to this thread but I wanted to send a big







to help you through the day.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
Okay, I just need to think out loud here. We are on day 10 of the Maker's Diet, and I don't see much difference from being on our traditional foods diet. Either that means that our bodies were already pretty healthy so we haven't had any sugar withdrawl, etc., or that nothing's happening! Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but ds still gets bright red cheeks throughout the day after meals, and his skin is still dry and rough. I don't know whether we should extend phase 1 of the Maker's or just go back to our NT diet, and be REALLY strict about not cheating. I feel hungry all day long and the kids nag me for snacks and food. Why are we so hungry? We are eating lots of fat and meat, not to mention loads of veggies, plus fermented foods and I'm eating almost a can of coconut milk per day alone. Is hunger a symptom of something that I'm unaware of? I'm also nursing all day long, and feeling frustrated and tired, and worn out from trying to meet everyone's needs but my own!!! Plus, dh went off to work pissy with me because I haven't been paying him sufficient attention







. Okay, thanks for listening mamas, I feel a little better with that off my chest.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Jennifer,

Devin Houston is very available by telephone to talk about his stuff. I think all Houston products have at least some fungal derived enzymes in them. That is the case with all plant based enzymes. The only ones which are exclusively not fungal are the pancreatic enzymes, from animal sources. But animal enzymes don't work until they leave the acidic stomach
http://www.enzymestuff.com/digestion.htm#4

P.S. I just found out Houston started his career with Edward Howell... the father of enzyme research. His books are on my to read list.

Enzyme Nutrition
by Edward Howell, MD
Pioneering work on the role of food enzymes in diet and health. Reveals the dangers of diets composed entirely of cooked foods and problems posed by pasteurization of dairy products. Dr. Howell's work led to a renewed interest in lacto-fermented foods.

Food Enzymes for Health and Longevity
by Edward Howell, MD
Recently republished volume contains more of Dr. Howell's fascinating research on food enzymes in human and animal diets.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicholas_mom*
Also, I am waiting to hear JaneS doctor appt









Here you are! come out of lurkdom more often, okay?!









It went okay. Just taking history at this appt. We have another one on Monday where she will be able to give DS a remedy.







:
She does it this way so ins. can cover 1.5 hours in two appts, so I shouldn't complain. We really didn't want to fork over the big bucks other Homeopaths were gonna cost us. (Although really the testing is gonna get expensive too, sigh.) She also uses herbal remedies and is a certified NAET practitioner. So lots of options here.

DS Just spent the last 6 days without enzymes or yogurt for his stool testing.








He also decided this week he loves screaming at the top of his lungs. At grocery store. First thing in morning, 6:30AM. At playgroup.







: Never did that before, usually he is a perfect child in public b/c he loves the activity and newness. My head is spinning!

So today ends our 3 days of poop sampling. Such fun! Had lots of (tmi) undigested fiber in today's diaper. He so needs enzymes it's not even funny. And this is after 6 months on SCD. I really would love to know what the heck is going on. We are doing the Great Smokies parasitology test that includes all kinds of bacteria, yeast and probiotics, plus







parasites. She didn't know much about c. difficile testing though, I've gotta decide that on our own.

Finally the poor kid could have his yogurt before his nap today, he was sooooo happy. I'm just praying he sleeps at least 2 hours like he was doing before our little experiment this week.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
Thanks you guys for your responses. I think I will give the companies a call and see what they have to say.
Do I understand correctly that these enzymes may not taste so wonderful (or at all?) So, in your opinion, would it be better to get the capsules? I'm wondering about my children...if it would be a waste to get the powder if it's so awful tasting that they just won't eat anything with the enzymes in it.
Thanks again!









The fruity ones are yucky tasting, especially the peptizyde, stinks too. So if your kids can swallow capsules, definately go that route! However, they should be taken 20-30 minutes before eating to allow the cellulose capsule to wear away on stomach, so that's kind of a pain.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Michele,

Yes, tooth health is directly related to mineral status in the body. The definitive book on this is Weston Price's "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration"
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html

A rubber dam doesn't help very much during mercury absorption. The most volatile form of Hg, and the most easily absorbed by the body, is the mercury vapor released when a standard dental drill grinds away at the filling. This is why the IAOMT protocol includes a special water cooled suction drill, oxygen for patient to breathe, gas masks for dentist and hygenist, a tube sucking away vapor on chest, and an outside air filter in room *in addition* to a rubber dam.

The best info on MDC about this is the "Metal fillings removed while bf'ing" thread in Dental. I would seek out a mercury free dentist, they are the only people I would trust right now. Other dentists opinions are just not up to date with the current research right now b/c they are just towing the party line of the crackpot ADA that thinks hazardous waste in our mouths is safe.

It really, really bothers me that LLL is so ignorant about mercury fillings too.

P.S. what about trying some sort of relaxation aid during dental visits? Rescue Remedy or homeopathic or just plain Valium!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Michele,

Also see my thread in Dental "Curing Cavities with Nutrition"


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
Okay, I just need to think out loud here. We are on day 10 of the Maker's Diet, and I don't see much difference from being on our traditional foods diet. Either that means that our bodies were already pretty healthy so we haven't had any sugar withdrawl, etc., or that nothing's happening! Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but ds still gets bright red cheeks throughout the day after meals, and his skin is still dry and rough. I don't know whether we should extend phase 1 of the Maker's or just go back to our NT diet, and be REALLY strict about not cheating. I feel hungry all day long and the kids nag me for snacks and food. Why are we so hungry? We are eating lots of fat and meat, not to mention loads of veggies, plus fermented foods and I'm eating almost a can of coconut milk per day alone. Is hunger a symptom of something that I'm unaware of? I'm also nursing all day long, and feeling frustrated and tired, and worn out from trying to meet everyone's needs but my own!!! Plus, dh went off to work pissy with me because I haven't been paying him sufficient attention







. Okay, thanks for listening mamas, I feel a little better with that off my chest.

OY. Two babes to nurse and DH acting like one too!









Well hunger can indeed be a symptom of die off. You are starving the yeast/bacteria out and they are crying for more carbo type food.

The red cheeks could be phenol or salicylate sensitivity maybe? I've never completely understood that. And I think 10 days for skin is a bit premature to expect anything very much.







Have you tried EPO in addition to CLO?

There is an interesting article on GLA at WAPF, I posted it recently somewhere but don't know if you saw it or who I posted it to, or what thread...









http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyour...linolenic.html


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Music-mommy*
Has anyone heard of or developed a histamine rash during a detox program? My dh has been doing a detox from his naturopath for the last couple of months, but has been on this healing the gut journey for a year and half, we started with a candida program.

However in the last 2 weeks he's developed a horribly itchy histamine rash all over his body. He also has a fungal rash, but that's a different thing.

Yes, I believe it is a principle symptom of a Herxheimer reaction.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicholas_mom*
About the Asperilla fungus, we saw a homeopath that said our infertility was due to fungus!! He gave me and dh LOTS of remedies for the fungus and our IVF worked on the first go!

The doc's take was that all virus, fingus, bacteria have a frequency emitting energy source. He had a machine and put a device next to my ear and did put out different frequencies. He healed my chronic bladder infections and my husband's semen never burned me again. The machine is used widely in Germany, I think he said. After the treatment, if me and dh got a cold, it lasted only 24 hrs!

I definately believe this after learning that a central issue in infertility could be the fatty acids-hormone production link. And yeast interfers with absorption and production of fatty acids.

Do you recall what kind of remedies?

I think I heard of this machine but forget the name...


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Hibou- The extra hungry stuff can be a withdrawal symptom.









I just got my package from Houstons.

I'm very confused now. I am currently doing Digest Gold and virastop (started that one today) I got the houston afp peptizide to replace the virastop cause it seemed cheaper but it is only 1/3 as potent apparently so I'll have to take 3x as much. But some of the ingredients are completely different, like the main one in the peptizide isn't in the virastop at all. I thought I was taking it for the protein digesters. I got the afp because it is supposed to be tasteless so one less taste to mask for dd.

We have come to an agreement of sorts. She gets to pick what her enzyme is in (juice or apple sauce) but she will take it at the begining of every meal. It is working so far.

Oh also I am assuming that she will be getting enzymes from me so I'm bumping up my enzyme dose first for a couple of days and then hers. So far I haven't noticed any reaction to any enzyme but I know we are just getting started. Rignt now we both take digest gold with every meal snack and I've started virastop with meals. I'm thinking of going to 2 digest golds per big meal. Possibly just dinner.

OH and I ate lamb! I have been craving some variety in meals and so we got some lamb. Wasn't sure how my digestive system would handle it but I had no issues (I haven't had beef or pork in years because of gi issues when I eat it) I'm so excited to get to eat something other than fish and chicken! There is a local guy who sells it on the weekends at a farmers market.

And how much magnesium can dd get? I got the houstons magnesium and she wanted one so I crushed it and put it in her juice. It is 100 mg. I took one myself and now am very sleepy. I guess I'll see later on if she has diahrea but her stools have been really soft today anyhow so who knows...


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Okay, before I forget, I found two great websites, http://www.eatwild.comand http://www.whiteegretfarm.com Now the first link takes you to a directory of finding grass-fed organic meat in your state and Canada. The 2nd site is about this goat yogurt that is cultured 30 hrs and doesn't have streptococcus thermophilus in it.

I'm reading another book by Rubin and I'm finding it to be much more 'full' than his Maker's diet book. In the end he breaks down what disease you have and how long you should follow the diet for--instead of the 40 day thing, which always made me







So looking at leaky gut and/or celiac, he says we stay on the diet for 6-12 months and try to eat in the healthy and super categories for the rest of your life. (He breaks down food into--in order--Super, Healthy, Neutral, and Dangerous). He also says that if you have celiac, crohn's etc (we might be celiac--but probably just leaky gut), to stay away from all grains, not just soaked and sprouted, everything for 6 months, which makes absolute perfect sense to me.

Oh, the book is called, Patient Heal Thyself. Hibou, can you tell me what you are trying to heal and I can make a copy of it and send it to you??

This makes sense to me. I'm so excited.

Oh, I bought that coconut cream concentrate that someone mentioned in the feb thread, and I am thoroughly disappointed. I think I was expecting too much, like milk, but I have to add tons to even get it similar to the rich coconut milk that I am addicted to









I'm sure there is more I've got to say, but can't remember









Oh, we are still not officially on the diet yet







I'm just trying to get all my essentials, and I swear, I've been talking about 'going on the diet' for like 6 months







: But, I have cut out all grains and all sugar and was itchy as hell. Think breaking the skin and leaving marks all over my back. I'm now feeling a lil' better. Oh, and I saw my homeopath the other day and he looked at my tongue and said that my gut wasn't in too bad shape (which I thought), but that my liver could definately use a detox.

Edited to add: I'm looking for a yogurt starter that doesn't contain the aforementioned, streptococcus thermophilus, in it. He says that this particular microbe has been known to make immune-system disorders worse.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*RE: excess dietary proteins emitting toxins*

My feeble brain remembered that that can be the case:

Quote:

The clinical perspective regarding gut ecology has shifted with modern cultural changes. In the early 1900's, E. E. Metchnikoff put forth his theory of orthobiosis: a state of health dependent on the correct balance of life forms inhabiting the gastrointestinal tract. Lifestyle and dietary imbalances led to unfavorable microbiota or "flora" that he termed putrefactive dysbiosis. Diets were generally high in meat and low in fiber, giving long transit times with plentiful undigested protein passing into the colon. Numerous studies have confirmed Metchnikoff's hypothesis, showing the generation of toxic chemicals by the action of colonic bacteria on undigested meat protein.
http://www.metametrix.com/Publicatio...lic%20Markers/
but I just wouldn't call it fermenting.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Wow, quote from that same article linked above:

Quote:

The production of ethanol from oral glucose ingestion was found in 61% of patients who are chronically unwell.
Ethanol is *alcohol*, what we were just discussing.

More worthwhile quotes to save on our thread:

Quote:

The provocation of joint inflammation by bowel infection with Salmonella, Shigella, and Yersinia suggests an etiologic link between colonic bacteria and arthritis5...

In addition to serving as markers of intestinal dysbiosis, these compounds have important physiological impact. Phenylacetate is one of the compounds that accumulates in the genetic disorder, phenylketonuria (PKU). The neurotoxicity of phenylacetate is probably due to very strong inhibition of synaptic choline acetyltransferase. Phenylacetate elevation due to dysbiosis has the same metabolic effects as elevation due to PKU, where it is linked to *behavior and learning disabilities*...

Some bacteria convert the citric acid cycle intermediate, aconitate, into tricarballylate. Extensive studies in animals have shown that tricarballylate in urine comes from such bacteria in the intestines. Species that produce this compound frequently infect the foregut of ruminant animals like cows. Tricarballylate binds magnesium very tightly and prevents absorption, leading to *magnesium deficiency*.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Embarrassing question, as I'm new to eating meat.....

Do chickens and turkeys eat grass? Or is a grain diet on a free-range farm the ideal?

Thanks

ETA, here is the choice of chickens I can get locally,
http://www.murrayschicken.com/
http://www.middlebury.net/mistyknoll/#enter


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Thanks everyone for your support.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*

Well hunger can indeed be a symptom of die off. You are starving the yeast/bacteria out and they are crying for more carbo type food.

Have you tried EPO in addition to CLO?

[/url]

I didn't know that hunger could be a symptom of die off. Thanks for filling me in!

Um...What's EPO?


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*

I'm reading another book by Rubin and I'm finding it to be much more 'full' than his Maker's diet book. In the end he breaks down what disease you have and how long you should follow the diet for--instead of the 40 day thing, which always made me







So looking at leaky gut and/or celiac, he says we stay on the diet for 6-12 months and try to eat in the healthy and super categories for the rest of your life. (He breaks down food into--in order--Super, Healthy, Neutral, and Dangerous). He also says that if you have celiac, crohn's etc (we might be celiac--but probably just leaky gut), to stay away from all grains, not just soaked and sprouted, everything for 6 months, which makes absolute perfect sense to me.

Oh, the book is called, Patient Heal Thyself. Hibou, can you tell me what you are trying to heal and I can make a copy of it and send it to you??

This makes sense to me. I'm so excited.

Thanks Amy. I have wondered about the 40-day thing too. It makes sense that anyone on the SAD would benefit from 40 days on Rubin's plan, and I think for most people, 40 days is doable and they would see huge improvements, but like I say we were already on a WAP type diet, so switching to the Maker's hasn't been a big "Aha!" for us. I will have to see if I can get ahold of the book you're talking about- I have heard about it. What we're trying to heal is my ds's eczema/allergies. He's never been tested, but his skin reacts when he eats certain foods (red cheeks, dry skin). I imagine the problem came from me either in utero or from bfing as a result of leaky gut. My ds is calling me to help him. I will pm you for that info. Thanks so much.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

AmyD: streptococcus thermophilus, has been known to make immune-system disorders worse? That's scary! Where does he get this from? My dh has an autoimmune disorder, so it's definitely a concern.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I know I read this recently but can't remember where . . .
What's the raw nut to nut flour ratio? I'm going to grind my own but need to know how much to buy.
Anybody buy from nuts4u.com?
What the heck does blanched mean?


----------



## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

I'm feeling very overwhelmed right now. All around Galen's mouth there is redness. I'll run down what I suspect:

Today I gave DS some Kefir (from raw milk) which was fermented for about 1-1/2 days (it was so thick that I was afraid to ferment it longer). He loved it! He used to react to commercial non-organic cows milk yogurt.

A few hours later, we ate some eggplant stew -- eggplants, onion and tomatoes. None of those seemed like triggers previously, but we haven't had tomatoes for a good two weeks or so.

Now all around his mouth there is redness. I'm not sure what he's reacting to. What types of foods usually result in this reaction? I've heard citrus fruits, and I know today's tomatoes were quite acidic. Could this just be topical, or can I expect more inner damage? He became really, really fussy toward the end of supper. I wiped his mouth with a damp cloth, and now his temperament seems fine. The redness has subsided though still visible. I hate to think my calous neglect not to _gradually_ introduce foods back has led to more issues. Back to the drawing board I guess. Perhaps I need to be more serious about meal planning to avert this in the future.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

tomatoes are pretty high on the list of food allergens, and eggplants are in the same plant family (as are bell peppers). my naive understanding is that problematic foods contain large molecular weight proteins that are not tolerated by some - perhaps you just need to wait for more gut healing before you try these again.


----------



## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Michele,

Yes, tooth health is directly related to mineral status in the body. The definitive book on this is Weston Price's "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration"
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html

A rubber dam doesn't help very much during mercury absorption. The most volatile form of Hg, and the most easily absorbed by the body, is the mercury vapor released when a standard dental drill grinds away at the filling. This is why the IAOMT protocol includes a special water cooled suction drill, oxygen for patient to breathe, gas masks for dentist and hygenist, a tube sucking away vapor on chest, and an outside air filter in room *in addition* to a rubber dam.

The best info on MDC about this is the "Metal fillings removed while bf'ing" thread in Dental. I would seek out a mercury free dentist, they are the only people I would trust right now. Other dentists opinions are just not up to date with the current research right now b/c they are just towing the party line of the crackpot ADA that thinks hazardous waste in our mouths is safe.

It really, really bothers me that LLL is so ignorant about mercury fillings too.

P.S. what about trying some sort of relaxation aid during dental visits? Rescue Remedy or homeopathic or just plain Valium!

Thanks, Jane for the advice! I am off to read the metal filling removal thread. Oh, things were easier when I just hid my head in the sand!

I so want to scream at that dentist-how can she even think of putting patients at risk like that-even her staff?? Scary!


----------



## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

I'm incubating my first batch of yogurt in my oven. Unfortunately, it's only maintaining the incubation temp. at 95F. I know the recommendation is between 100F and 110F.

How will the deficit of 5 degrees effect the outcome? Will this temperature be insufficient to keep the cultures active?

If I need to raise the temp., what can I rig up to increase it right now? I've thought of placing a pan of boiling water at the bottom of the oven. What do you think?

Any ideas and input greatly appreciated...

ETA: Yogurt has been incubating for about 8 hours now. I intend to incubate till tomorrow morning. Is this too risky given that incubation temp. hasn't been ideal?


----------



## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
I'm incubating my first batch of yogurt in my oven. Unfortunately, it's only maintaining the incubation temp. at 95F. I know the recommendation is between 100F and 110F.

How will the deficit of 5 degrees effect the outcome? Will this temperature be insufficient to keep the cultures active?

If I need to raise the temp., what can I rig up to increase it right now? I've thought of placing a pan of boiling water at the bottom of the oven. What do you think?

Any ideas and input greatly appreciated...

ETA: Yogurt has been incubating for about 8 hours now. I intend to incubate till tomorrow morning. Is this too risky given that incubation temp. hasn't been ideal?

Hey Siana,

I use a pizza stone under my glass dish when incubating my yogurt. I also use a 60 watt bulb. I have had success each time I have used this method.

I am not sure about the risk of this batch-maybe someone with more experience can answer this part.

Good luck-it is so yummy when it works!!


----------



## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

i'm behind on the thread again, but i just wanted to say i know what you mean, patty, re:

Quote:

I have come to realize that I have been basically living in crisis mode since she was born. Most mothers of newborns do but since my dd still is so dependant on me 24 hours a day, and as she lets up slightly life doesn't let having a kid be an excuse for not doing things so all the slack it taken up with regular life. In fact I think it is harder now than when she was a nb cause then I had an excuse that people understood and accepted.
the past month has gotten a lot better for us too, and we've just been doing NT. I've cut out grains, and I swear my girls are more alive. But sometimes I wonder--is it just that I'm a new mom, and right now they're supposed to be exploding with language and learning and signing and playing? KWIM? But I'm pretty sure it's the diet. DH says he feels much less depressed, which is just incredible. You guys are such an inspiration! My goal is to keep up with this thread in April!


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:

A rubber dam doesn't help very much during mercury absorption. The most volatile form of Hg, and the most easily absorbed by the body, is the mercury vapor released when a standard dental drill grinds away at the filling. This is why the IAOMT protocol includes a special water cooled suction drill, oxygen for patient to breathe, gas masks for dentist and hygenist, a tube sucking away vapor on chest, and an outside air filter in room in addition to a rubber dam.
[insert incredibly foul language here!!!!]

i had NONE OF THAT done! and they knew i was breastfeeding. WTF?

or, does this mean my fillings didn't contain mercury? at least one was porcelain, that they said was so so so bad for me--ineffective, promotes decay.... now i'll go to the dentistry forum too.


----------



## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Quote:

All around Galen's mouth there is redness.
It could be a couple of things. Like someone said, it is probably the tomatoes. They're in the nightshade family (tomatoes, eggplant,all peppers, potatoes...I think that's all...) and they can be awful to someone who's sensitive to them. (My dh is very sensitive!)
Or, it could be a yeast thing. Although from your description, it doesn't sound like it. I had that as a yeast symptom a while back. Oh, it was awful.
Sorry, I digress.
I do hope it clears up quickly!


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## Jeanne_L (Jun 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Embarrassing question, as I'm new to eating meat.....

Do chickens and turkeys eat grass? Or is a grain diet on a free-range farm the ideal?

Thanks

ETA, here is the choice of chickens I can get locally,
http://www.murrayschicken.com/
http://www.middlebury.net/mistyknoll/#enter

hi amy - chickens do need some protein source, which is usually grain... but ideally they will be allowed to forage for bugs, worms, and they'll eat some grass, too (the yolks from chickens raised this way are the most incredible shade or orange/yellow). you are in vt, right? i usually buy misty knoll chickens. i think they are raised well...

i just discovered this thread and have spent the last few days reading through it. wow! i've been eating nt for a couple of years...


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Re: Galen's mouth

Thanks bluets and zanelee for your responses. I knew tomatoes were highly allergenic, but had forgotten that eggplant was in the same family.

For some reason, I've suspected Galen was sensitive to tomatoes, but I had no solid proof, just a feeling/sense. Now I know better and will stay away from them.

As for yeast, to be honest I have no idea if we have a yeast issue or not







I've been wondering about that but haven't got around to checking out the list of symptoms to dx ourselves

Re: Yogurt

Thanks mom2zsel for the ideas. I currently have a 120V bulb in there. I love the idea of the preheated pizza stone, except of course I don't have one!

I did some more research. Some sites say to NEVER let the temp. drop below 100F. Others say the cultures grow too slowly to adequately acidify the milk and to achieve a good texture.

First I tried putting a pot of boiling water at the bottom of the oven. The temp. was perfect, but it obviously didn't last long.

I decided later to turn the oven on 150F for a minute. The temp. seems fine now I think. My outdoor thermometer takes a really long time to register temps. though so I think I'll get myself a new one.

Perhaps in the future I might also like to try the cooler method. Again, don't have a cooler, but I'm sure it'll come in handy for non-yogurt purposes!


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I know I read this recently but can't remember where . . .
What's the raw nut to nut flour ratio? I'm going to grind my own but need to know how much to buy.

mom2zsel mentioned on the SCD chefs thread that in her experience, it takes more like 2 cups almonds, at least to make one cup of almond flour.

I'm not sure about other nuts, but I suspect you'll just have to try it out at first to get a good idea of what works (esp. since the grind can vary, depending on how course or fine you like it).

Quote:

What the heck does blanched mean?
Blanced almonds are those without their skin.

Blanching can be done at home too -- To blanch shelled almonds, put them into boiling water and let stand 3 minutes. Drain. Slide skins off with your finger.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Thanks Siana.

Does anybody know how long almound flour will keep? I'm thinking of ordering the 25 lb. box from digestivewellness. I wanted to grind my own but really think it'll turn out to be more expensive & if I can't save $, why go to all the trouble?

Anybody have any $ aaving tips?


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Does anybody know how long almound flour will keep?

According to BTVC, almond flour keeps up to a year in the freezer.

I wish I could buy from Digestivewellnes, but I'm in Canada (customs charges will kill me, if shipping costs don't). Hopefully I'll be able to find some decent flour at a reasonable price here, or I'll have to buy a food processor to grind my own! I could buy a flour mill instead though...


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...03#post4811303

I would love to hear some thoughts.

Thanks mamas


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

ok, I did the diet for about 2 weeks and felt pretty good. Although the excess energy could have been hyperness from die-off, but hey I can use all the energy I can get. Anyway, I went out of town and went of the diet for the weekend and felt so horrible. It really confirmed that I need to do this and stay away from certain foods. So now I am back to square one and still so confused at when and how to introduce foods. I can certainly stick to the diet, but as for when to introduce certain things I am horrible.

So I did the intro diet for today, and so now I am just going to introduce cooked veggies and minimal cooked fruits? What signs am I looking for that certain foods disagree with me and dd besides gas, undigested food in stool, or loose stools?

What the heck does everyone snack on besides nuts and fruit? DD doesn't like cheese. Can someone post a list of foods they snack on or eat during the day? I am really stumped and last time just gave in and let her have fruit or raw veggies. She will eat yogurt now though so that's a step in the right direction. We are horrible addicted to fruit and trying to really limit that.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *artisticat*
So I did the intro diet for today, and so now I am just going to introduce cooked veggies and minimal cooked fruits? What signs am I looking for that certain foods disagree with me and dd besides gas, undigested food in stool, or loose stools?
That's pretty much it I think. I feel kind of crampy when I eat something I'm not ready for (like raw veggies.) I was just wishing I could get back to snacking on raw veggies. I think Patty posted a while back that she missed having something crunchy. I do too!

Quote:

What the heck does everyone snack on besides nuts and fruit? DD doesn't like cheese. Can someone post a list of foods they snack on or eat during the day? I am really stumped and last time just gave in and let her have fruit or raw veggies. She will eat yogurt now though so that's a step in the right direction. We are horrible addicted to fruit and trying to really limit that.
This is tough for us too as fruit was always on the top of our snack list. My big dd and I snack on a lot of cheese (but I need to limit that for dd 'cause she gets terrible constipation.) I try not to worry too much about the fruit and I always add enzymes. We snack on the SCD cookies or muffins too (or a slice of SCD bread w/peanut butter & legal jelly.) My new favorite snack is acorn squash or spaghetti squash w/butter. Oh! and the spinach pie recipe from SCD recipes is very yummy! It tastes so rich I can't eat much of it at a time so that's turned into a snack food too.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

so i'm going to whole foods tomorrow. do i buy almond flour, or do i buy almonds and prepare them NT-style and then process them into flour? i'm thinking i go nt style.... regardless, it's gonna be a heck of a lot of money! oh, and does anyone know if blanching almonds kills the enzymes? i guess if i use them for baking, that doesn't matter anyway....

any shopping tips/lists? i still don't have the book (should come tomorrow), so i'm just going off the website. oh, and if my wholefoods has dccc, how much should i get and will it be sitting in with the other dairy stuff or in another part of the store. (i shop with my twins, so i gitta be prepared!







)

thanks--and sorry for the annoying newbie questions!


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

die-off can make you hyper? is that why my girls would not nap today? i guess we're doing something right then....


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

nicolena, my Whole Foods in WA has dcc, it's with the butter and sour cream. Get two and freeze one, nobody else carries it (at least around here). As far as flour vs whole almonds, it's up to you. You can make your own, using a food processor. If you want to do it nt style, then buy them whole. I think blanching them can kill some of the enzymes, depending on how long you let them sit in the hot water or hot oven.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

thanks for the info! off to the store!


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

I've been reading this thread...but I'm pretty overwhelmed so I'm just going to post and hope someone sees my post









Ever since I can remember I have recurring canker sores. Very painfull, very large and last about a week and a half. I am only canker sore free about 2 weeks out of a month...the rest of the time I have one, two, or three large painfull canker sores. I have always been a big sleeper. I don't have diarrhea....but almost dark clay type looking stools (sorry TMI). I get at least 2 headaches a week. Stomach cramps as well. After I eat I feel like I have indigestion. I talked to the doctor about my symptoms the other day except for when she asked if I had diarrhea I said no, because I thought diarrhea only meant that you had wattery stools...not softer stools, so maybe that's why she is sending me to a dermatologist. Here is the tricky thing though. When I am pregnant (twice) I don't get any canker sores at all. Should I still go to my dermatolagist appointment (dr referred me for the canker sores) or should I reschedule with my regular doctor and ask her for testing with a GI? My 4 1/2 month old son has many sensitivities (dairy, soy, eggs, chocolate, citrus, caffeine). I'm just not sure what to do.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

more on tinnitus:

http://www.buywobenzym.com/Tinnitus_...nt_Disease.htm


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## heatherdeg (Dec 30, 2003)

Holy moly... I have a LOT of back-reading to do! But I'm glad I found you guys 'cause I KNOW I'm going to need help.

The whole gut permeability issue has been so overwhelming that I started looking into it a year ago and got so disgusted I gave up... BUT... now I really need to get into it.

In a nutshell: DS was dx'd with autism spectrum disorder at 11 months old (when they were testing his development under suspicion of cerebral palsy! ACK!). Fast forward to today, he is 26 months old and free of gluten (which caused 8 months of horrifying constipation that nearly wound us up in intensive in-patient feeding therapy! Dumb docs!), dairy, soy and corn... and almost completely normal. Almost is the key word.

Two months ago I noticed an intensity in his desire for sugars and carbs. This was followed by a chronic yeast infection. I knew I needed to look into the gut healing stuff. I just received a copy of "Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Disorders" because it was referred to me as a concise, clear and comprehensive primer on this stuff--with instructions on helping the problem that were supposed to result in a better burn off than this person's Dr. ever produced through meds (what a shocker).

But I know I'll need help. My son is a different human being by all means; but the last remaining issues COULD possibly be removed through gut healing. That's what we're hoping for.

So I'm glad to have found you all... slightly overwhelmed... and will be back with questions!

Isn't it remarkable what food can do to you? Geesh!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *babygrant*
Ever since I can remember I have recurring canker sores. Very painfull, very large and last about a week and a half. I am only canker sore free about 2 weeks out of a month...the rest of the time I have one, two, or three large painfull canker sores.
used to have canker sores a lot too. (inside the mouth right? Why would you be referred to a dermolotogist for that?







) I can't attribute the gut healing to their disappearance, but they did go away. I only get once maybe once a year now when I'm particularly run down. IMO it was related to the immune system (which is related to the gut.) I went to a dentist once for them because they were so sore and he told me that nobody really knows what causes them, nor is there anything you can do to cure them. He recommended boric acid. I would put some of the powder on them and it really helped.

Wanted to share w/everyone that we had a follow up appt. w/dd's allergist yesterday to discuss her RAST test results. (Only wheat showed up as a positive.) Well, he gave me a mini lesson on leaky gut syndrome! That's not what he called it but he drew me diagrams and everything. I just smiled and uh-hu'd and then told him about the SCD. He'd never heard of it but agreed w/the whole premise.







Pretty impressive for a mainstream doc he?


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

Yeah canker sores are ulcers in the mouth. Very painfull. Why she referred me to a dermatologist I have noooooo idea. I think I may go get a 2nd opinion.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

RE: _Patient Heal Thyself_ by Jordan Rubin

A friend of mine (WAPF chapter leader) is going to lend me this to read. I understand it has more of an explanation of HSO's in it. We'll have to have a little book discussion when I get it. Hopefully it will be less obnoxious than Maker's Diet


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Jeanne,

Welcome and did you join the NT mama's thread over in Nutrition and Good Eating too! Will be great to pick your brain


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
[insert incredibly foul language here!!!!]

i had NONE OF THAT done! and they knew i was breastfeeding. WTF?

or, does this mean my fillings didn't contain mercury? at least one was porcelain, that they said was so so so bad for me--ineffective, promotes decay.... now i'll go to the dentistry forum too.

I know... hey I had a root canal tooth removed during end of my first trimester and it probably had mercury in the post since most do.









If they are grey metal in color, they are mercury.

The white composites are not. Obviously porcelain isn't either. Porcelain does not promote decay, it's in the skill of the dentist placing it. Ditto composite. Mercury amalgam fililngs are cheap and easy and fast to place, a monkey could do it, so that is why they are so encouraged. The others take more time and skill.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
Um...What's EPO?

Evening primrose oil

Gamma-Linolenic Acid
By Mary G. Enig, PhD
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyour...linolenic.html

The Miracle Fat for Eczema--GLA 5/28/03
www.mercola.com/2003/may/28/eczema.htm
(his site has been attacked and is down, if it's not coming up you can search for the cached copy at Google.)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Re: chickens and feed

Like cows, I believe the ideal is all grass, with chickens getting their protein from bugs. This is ideal for the development of good fatty acids in their eggs too, omega 3's from the bugs. I'm getting access to all kinds of pastured only meats and raw dairy, in one place starting next month, I'm sooooooo excited!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
According to BTVC, almond flour keeps up to a year in the freezer.

I wish I could buy from Digestivewellnes, but I'm in Canada (customs charges will kill me, if shipping costs don't). Hopefully I'll be able to find some decent flour at a reasonable price here, or I'll have to buy a food processor to grind my own! I could buy a flour mill instead though...

Don't despair, you are very lucky in Canada... you have www.jgourmet.ca they are the authors of Grain Free Gourmet cookbook and I've heard their baked goods are awesome.

quick b/c they are closing 4/3 for a month.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
ok, I did the diet for about 2 weeks and felt pretty good. Although the excess energy could have been hyperness from die-off, but hey I can use all the energy I can get. Anyway, I went out of town and went of the diet for the weekend and felt so horrible. It really confirmed that I need to do this and stay away from certain foods. So now I am back to square one and still so confused at when and how to introduce foods. I can certainly stick to the diet, but as for when to introduce certain things I am horrible.

So I did the intro diet for today, and so now I am just going to introduce cooked veggies and minimal cooked fruits? What signs am I looking for that certain foods disagree with me and dd besides gas, undigested food in stool, or loose stools?

What the heck does everyone snack on besides nuts and fruit? DD doesn't like cheese. Can someone post a list of foods they snack on or eat during the day? I am really stumped and last time just gave in and let her have fruit or raw veggies. She will eat yogurt now though so that's a step in the right direction. We are horrible addicted to fruit and trying to really limit that.

For me the bowel issues you mentioned were my major symptoms, so I knew I was eating something I shouldn't if they popped up. Any other allergy type symptoms I guess ... or insomnia or anxiety or other behavioral things.

What about crispy cheese crackers? I've seen various recipes on SCD sites that involve baking or frying cheese to make it crisp. Btw, baked provolone cheese slices make awesome sub for taco shells.

These crackers are yummy too.
http://www.scdrecipe.com/recipes/r_014_00082.php
I use rosemary instead of the other spices sometimes. Go light on the spices I think the recipe calls for too much IMO. I double bake them to make even crispier. (Wen they are cooled, put back in a 150 degree oven for several hours to dry out. This method works really well with cookies too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
so i'm going to whole foods tomorrow. do i buy almond flour, or do i buy almonds and prepare them NT-style and then process them into flour? i'm thinking i go nt style.... regardless, it's gonna be a heck of a lot of money! oh, and does anyone know if blanching almonds kills the enzymes? i guess if i use them for baking, that doesn't matter anyway....

any shopping tips/lists? i still don't have the book (should come tomorrow), so i'm just going off the website. oh, and if my wholefoods has dccc, how much should i get and will it be sitting in with the other dairy stuff or in another part of the store. (i shop with my twins, so i gitta be prepared!







)

thanks--and sorry for the annoying newbie questions!

I really didn't notice much a difference when I started SCD and didn't soak any of my nut flours or nut butters. I still healed significantly. Then when I got used to the diet, I started soaking and making my own.

It can be overwhelming though, you have to be used to everything first and get into a rhythm. At least I did. *So I almost want to say to newbies... get used to SCD first, then think about soaking your nuts!*

I absolutely need to soak whole nuts though, no question about that.

According to NT, skinless almonds will still sprout so it's probably done by machine... so yes, the enzymes are intact.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Was it Pookietooth that did this awesome SCD shopping list? I'm sorry I forgot!

*SCD grocery list*

FRUIT:
apples
raisins
pears
lemon
lime
pineapple
orange
cranberries
blueberries
raspberries (fresh, frozen)
bananas
california dates
peaches
crushed, unsweetened pineapple
unsweetened coconut

VEGETABLES
onions
carrots
garlic
tomatoes
green peppers (pgs 90, 93, 99, 119)
cucumber
parsley
celery
cabbage
eggplant (pg 92)
ginger
red onion
cilantro
red bell pepper (pg 95)
lettuce
zucchini
green onion (pgs 99, 106)
acorn squash
spaghetti squash
pumpkin
cauliflower
broccoli (pg 119)
mushrooms
peas

LIQUIDS
dry white wine
apple cidar
tomato juice
vinegar (white, cider)
frozen orange juice concentrate
milk and cream to make yogurt

SPICES
cinnamon
dry mustard powder
tarragon
basil (fresh, dried)
bay leaf
italian spices
nutmeg

OTHER
peanut butter (no additives)
almonds (whole, slivered)
almond flour
walnuts
pecans
honey
unflavored gelatin
vanilla
baking soda
chicken with bones for stock
chicken breast
butter
olive oil
beef bones for stock
ground beef
dry curd cottage cheese
cheddar cheese
100% pure parmesan cheese
brick cheese, colby cheese
havarti cheese
eggs
white beans
lentils
canned anchovies, tuna, salmon
canned, fresh, or frozen fish (halibut, flounder, sole, shrimp, lobster, crabmeat)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
die-off can make you hyper? is that why my girls would not nap today? i guess we're doing something right then....

Maybe... but usually in this house that means DS ate something he shouldn't have, or taken too many protease enzymes.

Speaking of enzymes making you hyper, I finally found this page with explaination as to why.

Also explains _The Happy Child Effect_.

http://www.enzymestuff.com/serotonin.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babygrant*
I've been reading this thread...but I'm pretty overwhelmed so I'm just going to post and hope someone sees my post









Ever since I can remember I have recurring canker sores. Very painfull, very large and last about a week and a half. I am only canker sore free about 2 weeks out of a month...the rest of the time I have one, two, or three large painfull canker sores. I have always been a big sleeper. I don't have diarrhea....but almost dark clay type looking stools (sorry TMI). I get at least 2 headaches a week. Stomach cramps as well. After I eat I feel like I have indigestion. I talked to the doctor about my symptoms the other day except for when she asked if I had diarrhea I said no, because I thought diarrhea only meant that you had wattery stools...not softer stools, so maybe that's why she is sending me to a dermatologist. Here is the tricky thing though. When I am pregnant (twice) I don't get any canker sores at all. Should I still go to my dermatolagist appointment (dr referred me for the canker sores) or should I reschedule with my regular doctor and ask her for testing with a GI? My 4 1/2 month old son has many sensitivities (dairy, soy, eggs, chocolate, citrus, caffeine). I'm just not sure what to do.









Hello, adding to my post in the other thread...

I would ask for a stool culture from your regular doctor.
http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionbacteria.htm

BF babe sensitivity to foods you are eating means you have leaky gut.
http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionleakygut.htm
Except mainstream medicine doesn't believe in it.

Get one of Karen DeFelice's books described at website above and look around that site. It's really good at describing the digestive system.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Welcome Heather









Karen DeFelice's book is so awesome, should be required reading for any parent with an ASD child. Have you seen her website?
www.enzymestuff.com

My son has some SID issues and even had some ASD behaviors when his digestion was particularly bad. I absolutely believe in the gut-brain connection. When you read about the neurotransmitters being produced in the gut... as well as toxins which effect the brain, and production of fatty acids that coat nerves, it all makes perfect sense.

See the Autism chapter of the SCD diet book "Breaking the Vicious Cycle"
http://www.pecanbread.com/BTVCautismchapter.html

Food = Health or Food = Disease

It is as simple as that. Too bad in this culture we are so very far removed from our natural diets and we don't see it. This is my favorite book for seeing how food literally builds our bodies:
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
He recommended boric acid. I would put some of the powder on them and it really helped.

Wanted to share w/everyone that we had a follow up appt. w/dd's allergist yesterday to discuss her RAST test results. (Only wheat showed up as a positive.) Well, he gave me a mini lesson on leaky gut syndrome! That's not what he called it but he drew me diagrams and everything. I just smiled and uh-hu'd and then told him about the SCD. He'd never heard of it but agreed w/the whole premise.







Pretty impressive for a mainstream doc he?









??? I thought boric acid was poisonous?

That's awesome re: the allergist! Did he tell you anything interesting? Man, I would love a bibliography from him. Maybe when I win the lottery and can conduct leaky gut research on breastfeeding mama's, we'll give him a call


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Not much time to post.

L-lysene always helped my canker sores. You can take a bunch (3-4 4x a day) to get rid of them and then cut back to 1 a day to keep them away.

We are working in the enzymes. I'm not noticing any reactions yet. I have us on digest gold with all meals/snacks. Virastop with all meals/snacks for adults and afp peptizide for dd at the same time. I'm struggling to figure out when I can take the candidase and also I got some no-fenol but I'm not sure when to take that. Do I take it with meals or between meals? I got it thinking it worked on the yeast directly but now that I have read the bottle I'm not so sure.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Don't despair, you are very lucky in Canada... you have www.jgourmet.ca they are the authors of Grain Free Gourmet cookbook and I've heard their baked goods are awesome.

quick b/c they are closing 4/3 for a month.

I







you Jane









I had no idea. Thank you, thank you for linking me to their website. I'm definately getting myself some of that flour! (some biscotti would be nice, but it would be just my luck that I'll probably have to wait on that one for now)


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Okay everyone. I need your help. This thread is so overwhelmingly long, so I'm sorry if I'm posting a repeated question...

As a teenager I had pretty bad acne. It went away in my late teens and last year it was almost completely gone. (I give the birth control a lot of credit for that.) But now I am pregnant, and I have never seen such bad acne in all my life. It is severe, cystic and painful. All over my face...ones the size of dimes. My back is covered, neck, chest...it's disgusting.

I've taken probiotics and Krill Oil for two years now. I eat a clean diet: no dairy, no meat, little fish, fresh fruits and veggies. I do eat grains because I feel like i would starve without them.

There's got to be something I can do to help this. I believe it's related to hormones. In fact, I know. Why else would I go from nothing to severe acne? But everyone keeps saying it's due to my gut.

Please help me mamas. I am so completely depressed because of this. I don't even want to leave the house.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally *Posted by JaneS*???
I thought boric acid was poisonous?
Geez, is this true!!!??? This was when I was in my early 20's. Doesn't it just figure though? More toxic things my poor body has had to endure. . .


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, that wasn't me who did that great shopping list. I can't remember who did that. Thanks for the link about tinnitis -- it says to use enzymes. It also says that diets high in fat and cholesterol can worsen tinnitis. It also says that deficiency of vitamins A and D can cause it. Zinc is also supposed to help.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

My raw milk guy has milk again









I had a long talk with him today about grass fed vs. grain fed. He does all organic and feeds some grain. He said that at least right now his grass just isn't rich enough to support all grass fed. He is remineralizing and has already seen how the hay he bought from a guy who already did this is much more satisfying to them even though it is lower in protein than some other hays but it still isn't enough to rely on completely for nutrition. He hopes that some day he might be able to completely get away from grain for them and expects the need to get lower as his land gets better but it is a process. I am satisfied with that and know that it is the best cow milk I can find locally. I understand it is probably missing the x factor. I'm still satisfied. He said that if he wanted to go all grass fed he would have to get beef cattle and double his herd to meet the current demand. He would also have to double the price (he currently charges $6 a gallon) and he doesn't think that most people arround here would pay it. He is also working on getting certified by the state and once he does that he will put in a cream seperator so I will be able to get raw cream!!!! Probably not for a while yet but I can dream, this is all of course assuming that dd can tolerate cows dairy. The goat milk costs nearly double what his cow milk costs and it is a seperate trip in itself. The raw cow I can get at a market I go to frequently as well.

I need more getting enzymes into dd ideas. She is rebelling against the juice thing. Hates getting it in apple sauce. Honey made her nuts. I'm tired of batteling with her for 30 min over it at the begining of every meal. I do smoothies some and just throw it in there but as often as not she will only drink half of the smoothie at one sitting (no matter the size) so that is waste enzymes (and money). Plus I just don't have enough yougart regularly yet to do smoothies and since I have to pre cook all the fruit it gets tedious. AND now I need to figure out how to be getting them into her between meals. Right now I have the motivation of the fact that she is hungry to get her to finally drink the stuff. How am I going to get them into her at non meal times?

I'm not having any reaction to adding the candidase between meals so I'm thinking I can go ahead and start that with her tomorrow but I don't know how to get her to take it.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Mum2be Welcome!
The seat of your immune system is in your gut. If your gut isn't functioning properly it will come out in various ways. You probably have weak skin so it comes out there. If you had a weak intestinal tract it would come out in digestive disorders. If your liver isn't functioning properly it can really mess up your hormones. They are all processed in your liver. I would start taking milk thistle or any liver cleanse recomended for durring pg (I have heard that milk thistle is safe in pg). Also, cutting out all animal fats isn't always a good thing. Your hormones are carried in fat. If you don't have enough fat floating arround in there it will mess up your hormones. Plant fats and animal fats aren't interchangable. I'm not sure why you have given up animal products. If it is for health reasons you may benefit from reading some info from the other side. If it is a moral issue for you you will need to figure out if you can make peace with allowing some humanely raised animal products into your diet. I personally do not beleive that humans were meant to eat strict vegan diets. I do not beleive that it is the healthiest way to eat. How much animal sourced foods (dairy, eggs, meat, fish) you eat is debateable and I'm still figuring out what is best for my body and family.

There are women here who are much more knowledgable than I am. I would recomend you start by reading Nourishing Traditions. This book was a real eye opener for me.


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

So i went to a different doctor today for a 2nd opinion. He agreed that we should keep my dermatologist appointment just for another perspective opinion but he has also ordered me an ultrasound to check my gall bladder, liver, etc, and also he ordered a blood test to check something else (on the blood work order it says TTG Abs). So I'm glad I at least have some tests coming along to see what is going on. One thing that really scared me was when I told the doctor about the canker sores he said that canker sores are a sign of an autoimmune disorder and asked if I had ever had an HIV test. Of course in Canada they automatically check for HIV when you go for your first prenatal check up at the doctor, but that question still really freaked me out.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

I am so confused. Doesn't dieoff symptoms include gas, rashes, hyperness, and all that? So how do you tell if you ate something you shouldn't or are having die-off?

I have been eating eggs like crazy for a couple days and think it could be those giving us problems, or it could be die-of or getting back on track from falling of the diet last weekend. The last 2 days dd has been off schedule with her poos and been doing them in her pants which is very rare here. They are very stinky, sticky, with undigested food (all the cooked veggies from our soup







) and where ever it touched her bottom leaves a redness and bumps. I have just been getting gas.

I think I will give it a couple days and see if it continues like this. I rubbed egg yolk on her face, and she didn't break out. And actually she hasn't gotten red bumps around her mouth lately. I guess I am going to start the enzymes again too and see if that helps.

I will be so bummed if it is eggs. I can think of so many things to eat using them.

Another problem I am having is of course adding in way too many veggies at once. I am a variety eater and hate just eating one thing at a time. But did you all just add in one cooked veggie a day after the intro diet and just eat the heck out of it?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Okay all you nut grinders . . . I just tried my brand new Cuisinart coffee grinder and it sucks. I tried grinding pecans. I think the nuts were too soft and clogged the thing up. Has anyone tried grinding pecans in a coffee grinder?

artisticat, this link helps me figure out what's going on w/my dds:
http://www.enzymestuff.com/rtstools.htm


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Has anyone tried grinding pecans in a coffee grinder?

I used to grind all my nuts in the coffee grinder, including pecans. Eventually though after grinding something (I wish I could remember what!) that had quite a bit of moisture in it (it might have been dried chopped dates), it got clogged, overheated, and died. It was a basic Black & Decker model.

Now I grind my pecans in my good old blender. May not come out finely ground, but it gets the job done.

I've been wondering how a VitaMix would handle grinding nuts (it grinds whole grain cereals, kneads dough etc. so I don't see why not). I've heard so many good reviews about that product, and apparently it's a worthwhile investment.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

...I've been going through them very fast since I started to get serious about SCD. We seem to average about 4/day at the beginning of the week (just after we get more) and then I find myself really cutting back to not use them all up before grocery shopping day! Typically my max. is 2/day.

So, can I overdose on eggs? I feel like a glutton right now with the eggs


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Despite not having ideal incubation temp. for my first batch of yogurt, it turned out wonderfully! It's so thick (though not super thick like store bought yogurt), creamy and oh so sour! Total incubation time was 34 hours.

I made a batch of goats milk yogurt at the same time as the raw cows milk, and I can't believe how goaty that tastes. Perhaps since it was made with pasteurized milk, I just wasn't expecting that taste. Anyhoo, the kids are going to eat the goats milk yogurt









Anyway, just wanted to share my success story and thank those who helped me trouble shoot the temp. issue.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
I am so confused. Doesn't dieoff symptoms include gas, rashes, hyperness, and all that? So how do you tell if you ate something you shouldn't or are having die-off?

I've been wondering this too.

Quote:

her poos... are very stinky, sticky, with undigested food (all the cooked veggies from our soup







) and where ever it touched her bottom leaves a redness and bumps.
Perhaps this has nothing to do with what your DD is experiencing, but this description matches what my son experienced a couple of days after he had a stomach bug. I took it as a sign of his body detoxing. I'm curious to know what others think.

Quote:

Another problem I am having is of course adding in way too many veggies at once. I am a variety eater and hate just eating one thing at a time. But did you all just add in one cooked veggie a day after the intro diet and just eat the heck out of it?
I empathize. I've been struggling with the same thing. How exactly does everyone go about introducing foods back? Is it like the recommendations given when introducing solids to a baby? (introduce one new food a week, and as artisticat said, "and just eat the heck out of it"?

Rapid introduction of new foods is where I ran in to trouble too. I began having some flatulence, and my stools were softer again. I also couldn't identify what foods could have triggered that since I had introduced too many around the same time.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Sorry, haven't been around, been kind of self-absorbed lately









Going to start the diet tomorrow. Although, I've been on it unofficially, and about at 90% for a couple of weeks.

My big question is this: Since it looks like I have cancer, are there any reasons NOT to do the diet? I feel that getting my gut healed ASAP will be the key to me fighting this cancer.

Thanks


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

AMYD just wanted to







and send you some healing vibes!

As for probiotics, what is everyone using to culture their yogurt? I've been using storebought yogurt, but this local brand doesn't list the probioitics used or yogurmet. Do I need specific strains? I am hoping I can just use what I have been and then eat the yogurt several times a day.

I am starting the enzymes again on Monday and going to take it slow this time.

Also dd now has rash in her vaginal area, so I am hoping that the last two days of yucky poos was just die-off and getting back on track. No poo yet today though so we will see.


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## aileen (Jan 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Maybe when I win the lottery and can conduct leaky gut research on breastfeeding mama's, we'll give him a call









so wait, jane - that's not what you're doing here?







you're totally a researcher. we should set up some silly paypal thing where you get a quarter every time you answer a post. of course, pookietooth, siana, pattyla, (& others i'm forgetting







) you'd all have accounts too.

we're doing pretty good on a combo SCD/NTish diet. dd still is getting grains, mostly soaked but no wheat at all. she is for sure allergic to eggs (i wonder if because of my gut...) so i hear your pain, artisticat, right?, about doing either of these diets without the eggs. and i think yeast is huge for us. so needless to say i feel like i'm sort of ignorantly piecemealing (no pun intended) together all these different diets and so it can be tough to stay positive about it. the old sensitivity things are there so strong (like when i had a little "accident" with a bar of organic dark chocolate a friend sent) - crazy ezcema all over dd - that it's hard to resist just going back to elimination, but then..., my crazy sweet date cravings are gone already! after a year and a half a nutzo sweet-tooth. [an aside to dates - i do still love you and i will eat you again, but i will never, ever eat 15 of you at a time in one sitting again, sorry - xo], so i keep (_usually_) chugging along.
pattyla - you've been a real inspiration for me, thanks for all your posts. its amazing to watch the tone change as you get further into the process, the healing, i guess, i feel like i'm sort of mirroring you. i hope.









still lurking mostly & loving my thirty five dollar bag of almonds that i will proceed to soak for seven hours and dry for twelve - geez, when you first start lurking here it all seems so impossible - and then next thing you know - aileen

p.s. - is there a "i want to heal my g.d. gut already so i can have another baby" thread somewhere? or should i start one?


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:

p.s. - is there a "i want to heal my g.d. gut already so i can have another baby" thread somewhere? or should i start one?
aileen, i completely hear you. but i'm thining it's a blessing for me! i think we're in about the same place, just piecing it together (til my darn book comes).

the girls' diaper rashes are back after poos. hoping it's die-off--tho all i'm doing is the yogurt and trying to starve the buggers (no grains or particular starches). i haven't gotten into enzymes yet. i have enough trouble getting clo into these girls. but there is a lot less farting in my house!


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Hi ladies,
I've been lurking on this thread for a while, but it's been so overwhelming with the quality and amount of info that I thought I would ask you directly for your opinion about my situation.
I have had severe acne for about 13 years, and it has been getting progressively worse. It got even worse in the first trimester of my 2 pregnancies, and started to ease up towards the end of the 1st trimester with the last one, right before I miscarried. After my miscarriage, it has gotten even worse. Right now, it is particularly cystic and around my chin and jaw, possibly indicating hormonal issues (?)
On the advice of one of this members on another thread, I started looking into healing my gut. I've taken antibiotics and birth control pills extensively in the past, and this is a strong possibility. At the time that I learned about this, I was pregnant, and VERY cautious about eliminating grains or dairy. Since I am not pregant right now







and have some time before I will be again, I've started the following a "light-weight" regime:
No soda, no alcohol, no coffee/black tea and no milk. I've tried to cut out white flour, but have been lazy on that front - still, I focus on whole grains (including wheat). I take 1 cup of probiotic yogurt per day, 1/2 cup of aloe vera juice per day, 2080 mg of cod liver oil per day, 300 mg glucosamine sulfate/200 mg glucosamine HCl per day, 2T flax meal/day. I'm trying to *focus* on gluten-free grains (quinoa, rice, etc), but have felt very uncertain about committing to this path. I also take 1 cup of burdock root/dandelion tea per day. I have an appointment with my family doctor to demand a referal to an allergy specialist and some type of gastro-specialist. The dermatologists he sends me to are quacks







:
Any advice? Should I eliminate the dairy completely for a test-spell and get probiotics from a different (non-dairy) source? Should I committ to no gluten? I've been on this regime for about 2-3 weeks and I'm not seeing improvement yet, but it's admittedly lightweight. Are there tests that can be done by a specialist to diagnose a "leaky gut" so that I know I'm not doing all of this in vain? I know that's such a wishy-washy question, but it has been incredibly stressful (as I'm sure you know) to committ to difficult healing regimes without even knowing if they are even addressing the right problem








I really appreciate any advice you can offer. I'm so frustrated that I could cry!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Shanna- Get the book Breaking the Vicious cycle. It is a quick read and I hear it is available in many libraries. If it applies to you do the diet for 1 month and see what happens. With allergy things, cutting back usually makes no difference. If it is damaging your gut a lot may damage it more but a little is still damaging it and only getting to where nothing is doing damage will let it heal.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aileen*
p.s. - is there a "i want to heal my g.d. gut already so i can have another baby" thread somewhere? or should i start one?









Put me on that list as well. I'm 9 dpo today and not very hopefull for this cycle.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Sorry, haven't been around, been kind of self-absorbed lately









Going to start the diet tomorrow. Although, I've been on it unofficially, and about at 90% for a couple of weeks.

My big question is this: Since it looks like I have cancer, are there any reasons NOT to do the diet? I feel that getting my gut healed ASAP will be the key to me fighting this cancer.

Thanks











I would totally recomend this diet to anyone dealing with cancer. Add in NT protocols and The Makers Diet stage I for good measure.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

We did one new food a day. It wasn't fun in the begining but pretty quickly we had a variety to choose from. If anything had stood out to me as a new behavior from the day before I would have assumed it was the new food and eliminated it for at least a time. Actually dd and I had a reaction to red peppers so we cut those out for now. Not sure when we will get arround to trying them again but it sure won't be near bedtime again.









We are still stuck in all cooked foods. I think we will progress to raw pretty soon though. I introduced cooked rasberries with the seeds last night and dd did fine. Today we had zuccinin with the seeds and peel and no problems! We are healing!!! Once we can eat more raw foods this diet will be a lot less work. I know our guts aren't as damaged as some and we are hitting it pretty hard from all angles (diet, probiotics, enzymes) Hopefully this will work us through it faster. I know gut healing will take time no matter how we do it, but progress is super encourageing.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Does anyone know which yeast killing herbs are safe both for bfing and toddlers? (and possibly pg







: ) I took some gse today. YUCK!!! I'll never get that into my dd. I have heard that the pills aren't effective for that one.

What else can we take that will work? I had been planning on the gse but I don't think I can do that multiple times a day.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Does anyone know which yeast killing herbs are safe both for bfing and toddlers? (and possibly pg







: ) I took some gse today. YUCK!!! I'll never get that into my dd. I have heard that the pills aren't effective for that one.

What else can we take that will work? I had been planning on the gse but I don't think I can do that multiple times a day.

Pattyla, which GSE did you use? My only local source for that sort of thing had the NOW brand of Grapefruit Complex Liquid ("GCL"). I asked the NOW customer support, including a link to the "yeast elimination protocol" on Jay Gordon's website, and they claim that theirs is more potent than other brands (and they thanked me for the link). Hrm. Of course they would, but how does one know for sure? Anyhow, I've been using GCL for a few days (mostly to beat down this nasty sore throat) - only 5 drops or so per glass. I also found that it is more palatable if mixed with sodium ascorbate. With that combination, I was able to get ds to drink some (well, after he forgot that he saw me doctor his drink).


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## mavery (Jun 3, 2005)

Hi all,
I've been popping in and out of this thread to read, I'm still trying to get rid of c.diff and it's not working so far (in fact things have been getting worse). I tried a pretty intensive culturelle regimen based on a study I read, but that doesn't seem to have touched the c.diff.

One of the things I really want to try in conjunction with other diet/supplement changes is homemade kefir. Does anyone know where I can get kefir grains? Do any of you have any to spare? There's a post I joined in Nutrition with a few people looking for grains, but no offers. I emailed someone from Dom's kefir site but got no reply. Has anyone had good luck getting them from GEMcultures.com? I heard they had had some distribution problems. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Jane,
Do you take a cal/mag or zinc supplement? If so, is it SCD legal? The pecanbread site is down so I can't check what's legal & who's got it. I've been taking these from Kirkman's but I have a feeling they are what's causing me some gi issues.

I'm about to do a new order and wondered if there were legal ones from Kirkman.

Thanks,









Terri


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Just an update: We've finished phase 1 of the Maker's Diet. I didn't see any real big changes, but I attribute that to having been NT for the last year. I think we were already on the healing path. I am sure it helped though, in ways that I can't see. So, now we're working our way back into our traditional foods diet, but planning to be much more strict about it. I am getting fresh raw milk delivered today, and we will be starting on sourdough-only bread products. I spent a lot of time thinking about this and reading, especially articles on the WAP site, over the last few days. I am convinced that we can work thru our remaining issues on a strict WAP/trad foods diet. We will be incorporating parts of the Maker's diet, and continue with the HSO/enzymes. It's interesting how all the little pieces start to come together.

Amy D-


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Another CLO question for you mamas who give your young dcs the stuff:

I want to give it to my 2 yr. old. I have the Nordic Naturals packets. How much can I give her and any tricks to disguising the flavor would be very much appreciated!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Terri- I take a solgar zink (by itself) and calcium w/ D. Both are legal (I'm pretty certain anyhow). I also take the houston magnesium.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Patty, did you get them from vitaminshoppe?


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## heatherdeg (Dec 30, 2003)

My WORD this thread moves fast!

JaneS... thanks so much for the words of encouragement and links. I'm going to start reading the DeFelice book and have Breaking the Vicious Cycle on hold with the lending library. But I'm desperate to start something with my son because I KNOW that his last remaining problems are surely food--like the rest of them. When I see what he was vs. what he is... well, it just makes me cry. In a good way--because we're on the way to fully recovered.

Glad I found you guys to help me on this journey!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Patty, did you get them from vitaminshoppe?

I got them at whole foods, except for the Houston's one. I got that with my enzymes from them.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Any other breastfeeding moms here trying to heal? http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=295112&page=6

Thanks Patty - - these supplements are making me feel great (the diet too) and I hate to switch, but the liquid is soooo sweet.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Magnesium rec:
http://www.papanature.com/store/Prod...&pid=PTG-00002


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Another CLO question for you mamas who give your young dcs the stuff:

I want to give it to my 2 yr. old. I have the Nordic Naturals packets. How much can I give her and any tricks to disguising the flavor would be very much appreciated!

Start with 1/4 teasp., stay at 1/2 teasp. for a while, and move up to 1 teasp. if necessary. Use a syringe? My DS has always loved NN taste and took it straight, even when he was 8 mos old.

*Patty re: enzymes*
How about a syringe with juice and enzyme mix in it? Then follow with water chaser? (you know how SCD likes juice water mixed half and half. Sometimes I don't like this so I drink my juice straight and water separately, better tasting.)


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
So, now we're working our way back into our traditional foods diet, but planning to be much more strict about it. I am getting fresh raw milk delivered today, and we will be starting on sourdough-only bread products. I spent a lot of time thinking about this and reading, especially articles on the WAP site, over the last few days. I am convinced that we can work thru our remaining issues on a strict WAP/trad foods diet. We will be incorporating parts of the Maker's diet, and continue with the HSO/enzymes. It's interesting how all the little pieces start to come together.









Will be looking forward to your progess!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mavery*
Hi all,
I've been popping in and out of this thread to read, I'm still trying to get rid of c.diff and it's not working so far (in fact things have been getting worse). I tried a pretty intensive culturelle regimen based on a study I read, but that doesn't seem to have touched the c.diff.

One of the things I really want to try in conjunction with other diet/supplement changes is homemade kefir. Does anyone know where I can get kefir grains? Do any of you have any to spare? There's a post I joined in Nutrition with a few people looking for grains, but no offers. I emailed someone from Dom's kefir site but got no reply. Has anyone had good luck getting them from GEMcultures.com? I heard they had had some distribution problems. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

ARGH Mavery, I'm so sorry to hear this.







I was just thinking about you the other day... because I was reading how something like 10 or more Culturelle a day was necessary on the Autism Mercury Yahoo group. I think, or Enzymes for Autism group. One rec was also using collodial silver.

I got mine from here, they were wonderful, huge and healthy if a bit expensive
http://user.cavenet.com/longman/


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Does anyone know which yeast killing herbs are safe both for bfing and toddlers? (and possibly pg







: ) I took some gse today. YUCK!!! I'll never get that into my dd. I have heard that the pills aren't effective for that one.

What else can we take that will work? I had been planning on the gse but I don't think I can do that multiple times a day.

Enzymes would be my first choice of course, then Oregon grape root (has berberine like goldenseal but not in danger) was okayed by my ND for bf'ing, not sure pg.

DS got an Herbs for Kids yummy tasting combo of OGR and Echinecea but it didn't work on him too well I thought. But it could be his bacterial issues too.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Awesome progress Patty!!!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Shanna,

Lots and lots of probiotics... the natural "antibiotic". My skin was the first to clear on kefir actually. Then yogurt. My sister is doing well on yogurt.

More on leaky gut testing at Great Smokies:
http://www.gsdl.com/home/

Welcome to the thread








I'm sorry to be so brief, time is short right now, will be back.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aileen*
so wait, jane - that's not what you're doing here?







you're totally a researcher. we should set up some silly paypal thing where you get a quarter every time you answer a post. of course, pookietooth, siana, pattyla, (& others i'm forgetting







) you'd all have accounts too.

still lurking mostly & loving my thirty five dollar bag of almonds that i will proceed to soak for seven hours and dry for twelve - geez, when you first start lurking here it all seems so impossible - and then next thing you know - aileen

p.s. - is there a "i want to heal my g.d. gut already so i can have another baby" thread somewhere? or should i start one?

















at this post!!!

And your Ode to Dates too.









Dates AND crispy soaked pecans together... that's what I bring to the movies for a snack









Yeah, I'm afraid about ttc again. Will probably try low dose chelation too for a bit.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Amy

I agree with a pp... NT plus SCD and enzymes as I addressed in your other thread, and lots and lots of probiotics.

Careful with die off maybe? I will remind myself to check around and see if this has been covered before by Elaine.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babygrant*
So i went to a different doctor today for a 2nd opinion. He agreed that we should keep my dermatologist appointment just for another perspective opinion but he has also ordered me an ultrasound to check my gall bladder, liver, etc, and also he ordered a blood test to check something else (on the blood work order it says TTG Abs). So I'm glad I at least have some tests coming along to see what is going on. One thing that really scared me was when I told the doctor about the canker sores he said that canker sores are a sign of an autoimmune disorder and asked if I had ever had an HIV test. Of course in Canada they automatically check for HIV when you go for your first prenatal check up at the doctor, but that question still really freaked me out.

Leaky gut is correlated with many other autoimmune disorders, celiac, arthritis etc. Don't freak out too much. He's mainstream and isn't going to know this.

I was checked for HIV too and then read how faulty the tests are and so many false positive are wreaking havoc on expectant mamas.


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## mavery (Jun 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I was reading how something like 10 or more Culturelle a day was necessary on the Autism Mercury Yahoo group.

Wow, that would be an expensive regimen. I had high hopes for the culturelle, I'm still really disappointed.

Thanks very much for the link too. Since I posted I found some kefir grains locally so I'll be getting cultured very soon! I'm hoping there will be a high enough bacteria count in homemade kefir to have a good effect. I've also read that some kefir contains a friendly clostridium bacteria which seems like a good one to try and beat out the c.diff. I'm really clutching at straws, though.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Jane- We are already doing enzymes. On the site she said that you need to some kind of a yeast killer along with the enzymes to really get rid of yeast.

Tonight we got enzymes into dd with a syringe. I had mixed up a shot glass full and she refused to drink it but happily took syringe full after syringe full untill it was all into her. This kid sure keeps me on my toes. On a different night she screamed like I was trying to kill her when I tryed a syringe. Ugh. Wonder what will work tomorrow?

I did try something on Sunday that worked pretty well and am wondering if you think it would be stable to make up ahead of time? Butter! She loves butter and usually eats it off her food before it melts in. I mixed her enzymes with butter and put that on a waffle. She eventually licked all the butter off. Could I make up some doses and freeze them? Is there any reason to think that would inactivate the enzymes?

Also, I haven't noticed any kind of reaction to the enzymes in either me or dd. Does this mean we may need more or are we just lucky?

AND when do you do the no-fenol? Is that for yeast? I thought it was but now the bottle looks like it isn't. I'm not sure if I should be trying to do that between meals or with meals.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

ok, got btvc. now i'm overwhelmed again. so much goes straight thru them and always has. even the expensive organic blueberries i thought were so good for them!

moving on--so how do i start? are there no veggies at all for the first two days? and no fruit? even if i'm pretty sure they tolerate raw cucumber (this is their fave snack)? do you start adding things after the first 2 days?

how do you make enough yogurt? what kind of container do you use? i'm scared of plastic lately, but i guess it's more important to make some yogurt.

i'm off to read the bfing thread linked above. do i start at the beginning of the diet too even though i don't have overt digestion symptoms? (i'm figuring i was a major contributor, along with vaxes, tylenol and a round of antibiotics.) how will i ever make enough yogurt


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

oh, and enzymes. do i need these? i tried that enzymes page and it wouldn't load. need to find it again. my girls are 15 months.

and i think they're laughing more since i took grains out of their diets last week







.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

nicolena,
re:the enzymestuff site:here'sthelink


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Jane- We are already doing enzymes. On the site she said that you need to some kind of a yeast killer along with the enzymes to really get rid of yeast.

Tonight we got enzymes into dd with a syringe. I had mixed up a shot glass full and she refused to drink it but happily took syringe full after syringe full untill it was all into her. This kid sure keeps me on my toes. On a different night she screamed like I was trying to kill her when I tryed a syringe. Ugh. Wonder what will work tomorrow?

I did try something on Sunday that worked pretty well and am wondering if you think it would be stable to make up ahead of time? Butter! She loves butter and usually eats it off her food before it melts in. I mixed her enzymes with butter and put that on a waffle. She eventually licked all the butter off. Could I make up some doses and freeze them? Is there any reason to think that would inactivate the enzymes?

Also, I haven't noticed any kind of reaction to the enzymes in either me or dd. Does this mean we may need more or are we just lucky?

AND when do you do the no-fenol? Is that for yeast? I thought it was but now the bottle looks like it isn't. I'm not sure if I should be trying to do that between meals or with meals.

I meant enzymes used specifically for yeast killing... meaning taking them between meals. And yes, No Fenol is for yeast, like Candex or Candidase, and should be taken between meals. You can do a No Fenol/Peptizyde combo to mop up the debris after the cell wall gets digested by the NF. There is more on www.enzymestuff.com under yeast/bacteria.

I'm pretty sure I heard that Karen D. said that oils do not start activating enzymes in the same manner as liquids. In any event, you sure can mix up a batch and either refrig. or freeze. The cold stops the enzymes. Cold does not at all inactivate. She recommends freezing batches in her book (of sugary chocolate drops though







).

I think maybe it's depends on the state of your gut and what particular microbes you've got competing whether you react to enzymes. Also for me and DS, the hyperactivity issue seems to be related to seratonin conversion. So however the gut is or is not handling that. Yes you are lucky!!!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
ok, got btvc. now i'm overwhelmed again. so much goes straight thru them and always has. even the expensive organic blueberries i thought were so good for them!

moving on--so how do i start? are there no veggies at all for the first two days? and no fruit? even if i'm pretty sure they tolerate raw cucumber (this is their fave snack)? do you start adding things after the first 2 days?

how do you make enough yogurt? what kind of container do you use? i'm scared of plastic lately, but i guess it's more important to make some yogurt.

i'm off to read the bfing thread linked above. do i start at the beginning of the diet too even though i don't have overt digestion symptoms? (i'm figuring i was a major contributor, along with vaxes, tylenol and a round of antibiotics.) how will i ever make enough yogurt









Don't worry, you'll get there!

If you are seeing whole undigested foods, I think you need to start with all well cooked, seeded and peeled fruits and veggies for now to allow healing. The raw stuff is not doing them any favors undigested. And undigested fruit sugar does feed the gut bugs if the cell walls aren't broken down first.

Go easy after first few days. The Intro should be longer, like 5 days, if diarrhea is present.

I'm not really sure what to say about you and your diet, but definately do the Intro and maybe you'll find out if you get die off! I know, not pleasant, but then you can perhaps go faster with adding foods if you are not sensitive. You should always start with the Intro as there has been many reports of people needing to go back and do it b/c they skipped over it and didn't progress.

I make yogurt in half gallon glass canning jars in the oven:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=119

You can get the Ball jars at large hardware stores.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I spoke too quickly about the enzymes not bothering us. DD is reacting to the no-fenol. She has red crust at the corners of her mouth and under her lower lip. I'm sure it was the no-fenol (or perhaps the egg plant... hmmm... she reacts to tomatos with red on her face... I'm processing while I'm writing)

I've decided to back off on the enzymes. Plus it is becoming a major power struggle and it is making us all very unhappy. It seems like the houston enzymes taste much better than the enzymedica ones so I just ordered more of those and I think we will do just those, at least for dd.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

thanks for the enzyme link again and the feedback! i guess i'm just worried about eating enough to nurse the girls while on the intro diet (especially since my dccc hasn't come in--gotta call the hfs again!). that, and none of us really have diarrhea. not liquidly anyway. but should i wait til it's all formed? it was never formed before (maybe long ago...). but for the past few days, we've had some formed and some unformed.

i've been supplementing myself with nut muffins. i hope that's not hurting them. maybe i should just load up on veggies. can i eat salad, do you think? sorry to be asking for so much opinion. i know i have to figure it out myself. but what did/do you nursing mamas do?

should the poop all be formed before i add anything but cooked stuff? how soon can i add nuts? is this info in the book and i just missed it? will try to reread.

emotions are running high here, but i know we're on the right track!


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## vermontana (Oct 21, 2005)

I STILL am waiting for BTVC. Today I'm going to a HFS that sells it, I think, so hopefully I can pick it up. I have been totally off all grains and sugar for over a week now, and I am doing okay. I am nervous about doing the SCD...the intro diet,and well, the whole thing intimidates me. I have a lot of cravings (I know, a sign of sensitivity, right?) and I don't really know how to handle them. I have a VERY hard time limiting myself to only a few foods, and I currently eat a LOT of raw fruits and veggies, a couple huge salads per day, and I have an addiction to raw honey and almond butter!

I am also having a hard time figuring out if the SCD is really what I NEED. I'm sure once I read the book through it will be more clear. Someone was talking earlier about J. Rubin's other book and his recommendations for leaky gut, etc. Can you talk to me about this some more? Are you doing this, and what makes you choose Rubin's diet over SCD? What do you see working well? I read the Maker's Diet, and liked/agreed with his overall dietary recommendations, but didn't like his style or his book on a whole, and I also feel that the first phase is too short.

Are enzymes/enzyme supplementation addressed in BTVC? When should I start thinking about doing these? And I asked this question a while ago, if I am having problems with digestion and absorption, am I wasting my money and time by taking my B complex and zinc supp. I am also taking some cheap, not so great CLO caps, but I am thinking of ordering some from Green Pastures. Are all the vitamins/minerals just going through my system without being absorbed, and should I wait til my gut's doing better to start dealing with vitamin and mineral deficiencies?

This is all really frustrating for me! We are talking more and more about TTC, but I feel like it's not right for me to even think about that until I KNOW I have the health and vitality to really truly nourish a babe. It is so hard to keep putting it off. Is anyone else TTC and what is your health like right now, what have you done to heal, how *healed* do you think you should be before TTC?


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Oh boy....this thread moves soooooooooo fast, I can't keep up!!!

Regarding the SCD diet and no grains....I haven't started the diet yet but I know if I don't have grains I am hungry ALL day long. I hate that!!! It was mentioed here many many post ago, about this being a sign of bad bacteria wanting their food, so to speak. Have the hunger pains gone??

Quote:

This is all really frustrating for me! We are talking more and more about TTC, but I feel like it's not right for me to even think about that until I KNOW I have the health and vitality to really truly nourish a babe. It is so hard to keep putting it off. Is anyone else TTC and what is your health like right now, what have you done to heal, how *healed* do you think you should be before TTC?
I would recommend doing acupuncture for faster healing as you do the diet.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

We are currently ttc. I just found out today that this cycle is a bust.







I think it would be better if I could wait till we are more healed but there are several reasons why it would be better to get pg now. Not the least of which is my dh's wish that I not get pg after I turn 35 which I will do in Sept. (I know it is just a number but he is terribly hung up on it).


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Oh yeah, I forgot my other question to ask......

Enzymes..........I read the link that JaneS provided and I am MORE confused then ever before. How do you decide what to take? Are you all taking all the enzymes in a powder form or what?

Help!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

OK, after doing some reading of various threads, I think I may have a leaky gut that is affecting my 3 month old EBF DD. So my question is...where do I start? I'm not willing to do the SCD right now as our issues are pretty minor, but I would like to get them cleared up. DD's issues are: blood in stool (only happened twice) and weird rash on her butt--I thought it might be a dairy allergy but leaky gut makes more sense to me. My issues are: gas for no apparent reason, acne, and low blood sugar (which is probably more of a very low body fat issue than a leaky gut issue).

Should I start taking probiotics? Which are good?

What about digestive enzymes? How do I know what to take?

Anything else I can do, foods to maybe avoid, etc? I do have raw milk now







but I'm a little scared to start using kefir or yogurt in case in exerbates DD's symptoms which didn't start until I started consuming more dairy a few weeks ago.


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## RedAnt (May 5, 2005)

24 hour raw milk yogurt questions!

I finally got some raw milk. I heated it to 110 degrees and added 1/3-1/2 cup of plain commercial yogurt. I kept it between 100 and 110 degress in the yogurt maker for 24 hours and it turned out WEIRD. It has a yellow cheese at the top and mostly clear stuff underneath. The cheese is a bit dry like mozzarella. After stirring and shaking, it is still staying separated. What's going on? Is it just separating into cheese and whey for some reason? Can I salvage this?

I've started a second batch using progurt starter. It's making a yellow film on top, but underneath seems to be gelling like normal milk yogurt.

Help me figure this out please. I'm trying to see if DD and I can tolerate cow's milk, at least raw. I don't want to give up just because my yogurt is freaky.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I spoke too quickly about the enzymes not bothering us. DD is reacting to the no-fenol. She has red crust at the corners of her mouth and under her lower lip.

This happens to DS when he has enzymes in a food that touch his mouth... Karen says its b/c the enzymes eat away at the dead skin. So perhaps your DD licking the butter with enzymes in it?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RedAnt*
24 hour raw milk yogurt questions!

I finally got some raw milk. I heated it to 110 degrees and added 1/3-1/2 cup of plain commercial yogurt. I kept it between 100 and 110 degress in the yogurt maker for 24 hours and it turned out WEIRD. It has a yellow cheese at the top and mostly clear stuff underneath. The cheese is a bit dry like mozzarella. After stirring and shaking, it is still staying separated. What's going on? Is it just separating into cheese and whey for some reason? Can I salvage this?

I've started a second batch using progurt starter. It's making a yellow film on top, but underneath seems to be gelling like normal milk yogurt.

Help me figure this out please. I'm trying to see if DD and I can tolerate cow's milk, at least raw. I don't want to give up just because my yogurt is freaky.

It should be covered while culturing... the cream layer is drying out on you. The first batch shouldnt' be bad if it's tart and clean tasting. Just pick out the hard bits









Yes raw milk yogurt texture is bit more liquidy. I just stir mine after culturing and drink. Or drip it if I want a more solid eat with a spoon type of yogurt.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
OK, after doing some reading of various threads, I think I may have a leaky gut that is affecting my 3 month old EBF DD. So my question is...where do I start? I'm not willing to do the SCD right now as our issues are pretty minor, but I would like to get them cleared up. DD's issues are: blood in stool (only happened twice) and weird rash on her butt--I thought it might be a dairy allergy but leaky gut makes more sense to me. My issues are: gas for no apparent reason, acne, and low blood sugar (which is probably more of a very low body fat issue than a leaky gut issue).

Should I start taking probiotics? Which are good?

What about digestive enzymes? How do I know what to take?

Anything else I can do, foods to maybe avoid, etc? I do have raw milk now







but I'm a little scared to start using kefir or yogurt in case in exerbates DD's symptoms which didn't start until I started consuming more dairy a few weeks ago.

Yes definately to digestive enzymes. More info here: www.enzymestuff.com and her book (both are same) is must reading for leaky gut IMO. I like Enzymedica and Houston's.

The best probiotics is a very hard question to answer. 24 hr. yogurt and kefir contain the most bacterial count and I think they are the best as I have seen the most healing from them.

If you need them to be dairy free that is very much harder. www.culturelle.com and Nature's Way Reuteri are good but I don't think either are dairy free.

Eat lots of good fats and proteins with your carbs for the blood sugar issue.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Wow! There are so many new people here!







:

vermontana, I envy your position. I wish I had known about this before I ttc! I really did not think I could get pg and truthfully, did not feel like I was at all unhealthy. Hindsight has shown me that I lived very much in denial, and of course being a mother has made me just want to be better in every way I can yk? You can begin enzymes at any time. In fact, I think everyone should take them!







Also, I would think that your supplements are doing something for you even if you're not absorbing it all entirely. IMO, a good brand of CLO is key. (I have never felt better and I attribute this not only to the diet but also to the CLO which I had never taken before in my life.) Every little bit helps. You may find that your road to healing may not be that long.

nicholas mom, yeah, that enzyme site can be intimidating! I started with a general type enzyme from my naturopath. Then, as I started to learn more I added some like Peptizyde and No Phenol. (I don't know that these are really necessary but I thought we needed them.) The general one seems to be working just fine for us.

caedmyn, the yogurt will supply you with more probiotics than you can get in any other form (if you can tolerate it that is.) PM firefaery, she's doing this diet dairy free. Re: foods to avoid while you're deciding which diet to follow - - any refined foods & anything w/sugar. These are the 2 top ones IMO.

RedAnt, yikes! I've had a few yogurt disasters but I've never experienced the yellowish stuff on the top. Weird. I use Dannon plain yogurt as starter myself. What kind of containers are you using?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicholas_mom*
Oh yeah, I forgot my other question to ask......

Enzymes..........I read the link that JaneS provided and I am MORE confused then ever before. How do you decide what to take? Are you all taking all the enzymes in a powder form or what?

Help!









They are all powder, but some are in capsules. Are you asking for you?

Enzymedica is pretty widely available in health food stores if you want to pick up some and test. V-Gest is the gentle all around and Digest Gold is the stronger.

All around enzymes digest fats, proteins, carbs.

For yeast killing you would use a high cellulase enzyme product like Houston's No Fenol or Pure Essence Candex.

For bacterial and inflammation issues (including fibromyalgia and arthritis to name a few more useful instances), use high proteases like Enzymedica Virastop or Houstons' Peptizyde. These also help clear up die off by digesting dead cells. Enzymedica Candidase for yeast contains both cellulase and proteases.

Not sure what else you want to know... ask a more specific question


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
We are currently ttc. I just found out today that this cycle is a bust.







I think it would be better if I could wait till we are more healed but there are several reasons why it would be better to get pg now. Not the least of which is my dh's wish that I not get pg after I turn 35 which I will do in Sept. (I know it is just a number but he is terribly hung up on it).

I used to think that as well (I was 36 when DS was born). But then I learned more about nutritional influences on birth defects etc. and I realize it's much much better to have an older but very healthy mama.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Vermontana,*

I know, it's hard to determine what you need. If you are curious about the SCD, a few days on the Intro Diet is not that hard. Then if you want to jump into salads and such, just see how you do!

BTVC doesn't address enzymes at all, read Karen DeFelice's book for that: www.enzymestuff.com. And she makes a very strong case for the necessity for enzymes as catalysts to being able to actually absorb and utilize nutrients with a damaged gut.

I don't think your supplements are a waste. The body desperately needs nutrients in order to heal.

Personally I can't TTC until Xmas so my case is a bit different. Then it will have been 18 months since I got my amalgam fillings out which is the recommended safe time to allow detox. And I do need to try some chelation on myself too. I'd also like to have what I think is a fully healed gut... meaning can digest (soaked) grains and such.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Mehera,*

Both Star Market and Stop & Shop near me has Friendship Farmer's cheese (dccc), much cheaper than Whole Foods, have you checked those stores?

My gut was bad so I started SCD at square one.

In your kids, yes, I would wait for fully digested formed poop before introducing raw fruits and veggies based on my experience with DS.

It's harder to say about you without knowing if you have leaky gut or not. If not, and you are digesting just fine, I don't see a problem with it.

Nut butters are easiest to digest. Then nut flours. Save whole nuts until very well healed.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I used to think that as well (I was 36 when DS was born). But then I learned more about nutritional influences on birth defects etc. and I realize it's much much better to have an older but very healthy mama.
.
Jane, when you do c, I'm going to use you as my guinea pig.







I was 37 when I had dd1 and won't be having any more. So, I'll follow your progress! I want to find out how differently you (and new babe) handle pregnancy, birth, etc. w/a healed gut!


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

what is the SCD???


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## swimswamswum (Oct 26, 2005)

Specific Carbohydrate Diet.

I just wanted to de-lurk and said that when I first got on MDC, I was a really skeptical lurker of this thread. I was diagnosed with Crohn's 5 years ago and had been on meds and existing- not really getting better or worse. Well- I haven't really done the SCD, but I have been better about cutting down on wheat- anyway. . .

I have been taking digestive enzymes with every meal and probiotics daily for about 3 months. OMG!!! I haven't felt this well is years!! It is amazing. I actually quit taking my meds. I was tired of taking expensive drugs that were made by awful companies, probably toxic and really weren't helping me heal. I haven't told my GI doc, but I don't really plan on going back unless things get worse. My mom's a nurse and has been super excited about how well I have been feeling and how much energy I have. I don't feel cured, but this is by far the best I have been that I can remember.

I have actually gained weight to the point where some of my nice pants for work don't fit very well. Even though this doesn't make me happy and I don't want to spend money on new clothes, this is a really good sign.

Thanks!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

i finally picked up our test for leaky gut. after talking to the naturopath, he decided that i should do the test, rather than ds. having done it, i'm sure glad that i did it - i have no idea how i would have caught pee from ds for 6 hours when he isn't potty trained and we aren't very good at the EC thing.

i've been battling a yeast infection. i gave up dairy a few weeks ago and haven't been consistent at taking my probiotic capsules (if i could leave them on the counter, i'd be more likely to remember). and no yogurt, so.... then ds went on antibiotics for a chest cough/ear infection - antibiotics that were useless (still has the chest cough) and then he developed a yeast infection too. or maybe i infected him. who knows. anyhow, i started taking grapefruit seed extract mid last week (also felt a cold coming on - let's kill 2 things at once). well, i think i'm actually now suffering from a yeast-related allergy. my "cold" over the weekend was probably more like allergic rhinitis and then the day i went to pick up the test kit, i broke out in hives. i've never had hives before.

i mentioned to the naturopath about the hives and that's when he suggested that since ds is still nursing, we should start with me first - hives are apparently a classic symptom of leaky gut. it almost felt like he was scolding me for letting ds even experiment with solids. repeat after me: secretion is the basis for nutrition and breastmilk is the perfect food for baby (because it has already been secreted).

anyhow, we've decided to hold off on supplements until we get the test results. he also told me not to give ds CLO (in spite of what "Super Immunity for Kids recommends) because it is hard on the liver. in fact, he said that since ds is still nursing, he shouldn't need any supplements except an infant probiotic.

in the meantime, i'm trying to figure out what to do about these hives. they could be yeast related. could be a reaction to the GSE, i suppose. could also be a result of my experiment with coconut milk yogurt. dh wants me to go the M.D. doc for reassurance (for him!). i'm getting by on massive amounts of sodium ascorbate (seems to help with the itchies) and then occasionally sneaking in Emergen-C. but this evening, i finally broke down and took a 24-hour claritin. whew. for the moment, i'm not that itchy.

if i were to go to the doc, i'm not sure what i would say. "hiya - i've trashed my immune system and now i have hives. i don't expect you to know what to do, but i thought i'd let you see anyway."


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

Okay, so a leaky gut or celiac disease can make an impact on a breastfed baby? I've been having some problems and DS (4 1/2 months) is reacting to a lot of foods that I am eating so I'm just trying to figure things out before I go to the doctor for his check up on friday. I am getting tested for celiac disease and gall stones in the next month (have to wiat for the u/s). If anyone can give me a heads up, that would be great.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Oh yes it does! A major effect-but luckily you are catching it early. How are you being tested for CD?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

What is grapefruit seed extract used for?

I'm thinking maybe I'll start off with some enzymes and take those for a couple of weeks along with some Nature's Way probiotics that I just started taking to try to clear up DD's yeast rash, and then try adding in some yogurt or kefir...does that sound like a good start? My instinct says that DD doesn't have a huge dairy issue and she'll tolerate yogurt or kefir, but who knows.

Is yeast in food a good thing to avoid right now? What about baking soda, is that okay?

I should add that I currently eat a whole foods diet, so no processed foods, and I'm working on transitioning to NT.


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Quote:

What is grapefruit seed extract used for?
I'm using it to kill the yeasty beasties lurking in my and my dchildren's bodies. I'm sure it does other things too, but someone else will have to tell you as I'm not sure.









Question: someone mentioned cheek/face flushing. I couldn't find it in a search of the thread, so could someone tell me what that was about? My dd (and now that I think about it, ds's too) face has flushed a few times since starting enzymes.
Why can't this just be easy?!!!


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## vermontana (Oct 21, 2005)

Thanks Annikate and Jane for your encouragement! I know being a healthy mama is more important than how old I am when I start my family...it's just hard.
I bought BTVC yesterday, and have been reading and reading, thinking about it a lot. I also had a major reaction to some choc. covered almonds (aagh WHY did I eat them? B/C I was in the car for six hours, seriously PMSing and it was the only thing in there). I had been doing really well, no sugar at all for over a week. Anyway, DH went grocery shopping yesterday and bought a bunch of good NT but not SCD food, and I've decided once I make all the meals for the next week with this food, I'm going to jump in and do the intro diet, 100%. I think I will need this week to think about it and prepare myself mentally and emotionally, though. This is hard in a lot of ways (especially when I am making DH breakfast...buckwheat crepes, steel cut oats....)







I never thought of myself as having *emotional* issues around food, but I guess I do.
I'm ordering CLO from Green Pastures today!!! And I will keep taking my B complex and zinc. Although my white spots on my nails are getting progressively worse---does anyone know if this indicates something other than zinc deficiency?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I looked online for Enzymedica--there are about 30 different choices! Which one should I get?

Also, has anyone tried the Maker's Diet for leaky gut?


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

My blood trst requesition for CD says TTG Ab's??


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Quote:

Also, has anyone tried the Maker's Diet for leaky gut?
Ds and I did the MD for what I suspect was leaky gut. I posted a few days ago that I hadn't seen any big changes, but at this point I have to admit that ds's skin has been clearer and softer than it's been for a few months. (Of course he started teething again lastnight so now he'll have red cheeks again, but that's different than an allergic response.) He also hasn't been reacting to the foods that seemed to make his cheeks bright red only a few weeks ago...of course we haven't tried them all, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. We have been completely off refined sugar for 3 weeks now, and back on our traditional foods diet combined with some aspects of the Maker's, and *lots* of probiotic/enzyme rich foods/supp's.

I have to say that, thankfully, our problems seem relatively mild compared to what other people are dealing with, so while the 2 weeks of phase one was, I assume, enough time to set things right for us, I don't imagine it would be long enough for someone with more severe issues, kwim?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

If you are planning on doing enzymes with a small child who can't swallow pills I recomend going with the houstons. They have virtually no taste (at least the no-fenol and the afp peptizide) while the enzymedica ones are extremely bitter. We are switching dd to the houston ones now that I realize they aren't as bad tasting.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Gosh, this thread is huge! We need our own forum, LOL!
On a related note, I wanted to see what you all thought of the study stating that dairy and grains can help move out heavy metals, talked about on the enzymestuff website: http://www.enzymestuff.com/dietsgfcf.htm#9
Oh, and CLO is hard on the liver? Who knew? I may take a break from it for awhile, since I've been having trouble with dark circles under my eyes and grooves between my eyebrows, both signs of liver problems.
Jane, I didn't know you had to wait 18 months after amalgam removal to ttc! That's a long time, and in my case, since I still have some amalgams, I'll probably be 45 by the time that waiting period is over! Sigh. One child it is.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Oh, and CLO is hard on the liver? Who knew? I may take a break from it for awhile, since I've been having trouble with dark circles under my eyes and grooves between my eyebrows, both signs of liver problems.
]
Yikes! Did I miss this? Was it mentioned in this thread? Geez, I've had lines btw. my eyebrows forever.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Never heard that bout lines between the eyebrows. Does this mean mine will get better once I heal my liver?

I suspect that the anti-clo idea is along the same lines as the idea that you shouldn't eat liver because it is the organ that detoxes the body so it would be like ingesting all the toxins it was filtering out. I'm gonna keep taking it. I think that the benefits outweigh the negatives.

As far as ttc goes, I'm 34.5. I have mercury fillings. DD is still nursing a ton and I expect I'll be nursing her till 4 or 5. If I were to wait till she weans and then get my fillings out I would be in my 40's before I could have another child and it would be like raising two only children. I want dd to have a sibling that is like a sibling. Close enough in age to play together. If I were younger and had no children, I might be willing to wait, but I just don't see it as an option for our family.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

The only info Ive seen about CLO being hard on the liver is IF you have a damaged liver. Then too much vitamin D can be hard to process (well the conversion and storage is hard on the liver.) Otherwise there isn't any other reason I'm aware of.
I have read a bit as my liver isn't doing so well, but haven't come across anything to make me stop my CLO. If anyone gets there before me, please share.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
What is grapefruit seed extract used for?

Grapefruit seed extract kills all non-animal cells (maybe non-plant cells too?).

I don't have immediate access to the article, just the abstract (http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs...ournalCode=acm)

----------------
The Effectiveness of Processed Grapefruit-Seed Extract as An Antibacterial Agent: II. Mechanism of Action and In Vitro Toxicity
Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine, Jun 2002, Vol. 8, No. 3: 333-340

John Heggers et al

Objectives: Recent testimonials report grapefruit-seed extract, or GSE® (Citricidal®) to be effective against more than 800 bacterial and viral strains, 100 strains of fungus, and a large number of single and multicelled parasites. This study investigated GSE for antibacterial activity at varying time intervals and concentration levels and tissue toxicity at varying concentrations in an effort to determine if a concentration existed that was both microbicidal and nontoxic and in what period of time.

Design: Gram-negative and gram-positive isolates were introduced into graduated dilutions of GSE (twofold concentrations ranging from 1:1, through 1:512) for determination of bacterial activity. In vitro assays with human skin fibroblast cells were also performed at the same dilutions to determine toxicity.

Results: These tests indicated that from the 1:1 through the 1:128 concentrations, GSE remained toxic as well as bactericidal. However, test results indicated that at the 1:512 dilution, GSE remained bactericidal, but completely nontoxic.

Conclusions: The initial data shows GSE to have antimicrobial properties against a wide range of gram-negative and gram-positive organisms at dilutions found to be safe. With the aid of scanning transmission electron microscopy (STEM), the mechanism of GSE's antibacterial activity was revealed. It was evident that GSE disrupts the bacterial membrane and liberates the cytoplasmic contents within 15 minutes after contact even at more dilute concentrations.
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I did see somewhere on the web that GSE doesn't impact Bifidobacteria in the gut, and only marginally impacts Lactobacillus bacteria in the gut. However, I haven't yet seen a more concrete reference. I have a question into one of our microbiologist faculty members asking if this is something easy and cheap to verify (it's probably a really dumb question, but then I don't know anything about laboratory methods, just data analysis).

If you go to the link above and check out the article that cites it (about grapefruit seeds used for UTIs), it isn't just extract that is effective - 5-6 seeds per 8 hours, for 2 weeks, was effective in clearing up some UTIs. Even more cool, it caused an antibiotic resistant strain of bug to lose its antibiotic resistance - so after 2 weeks of grapefruit seeds, they were able to weaken the bug (it was a particularly stubborn strain of bug) and then use conventional antibiotics to get rid of it once and for all.


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Quote:

Oh, and CLO is hard on the liver? Who knew?
Awesome WAP article on CLO







: http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So according to that I should be taking 2 or more tsp of high vitamin clo a day (bfing). Right? Is this gut healing something that would indicate taking more or is that for other things? As it is that is WAAAAYYYYY more than I have been taking! I went ahead and ordered the butter oil too. How much of that do I need?

DD is running a fever. I'm feeling lousy. Not sure if it is af or the diet or the enzymes. I'm really getting sick of nut flavored things.







: I tried making some cookies today. Is it just me? Everything in those recipee books calls for way too little salt and just not enough flavoring in general. Everything just tastes like nuts. I like nuts but I like other flavors too.


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Thanks AnniKate and Jane for replying to my question regarding enzymes.

I am taking my list to the Vitamin Shoppe. I want to take the enzymes first before I introduce enzymes to my ds.

Since we are seeing a Homeopathic doctor (Jane where is your update of the 2nd visit??







), he is the one who suggested we do gluten-free for ds. He gave a couple of remedies to help with his digestion and liver and I am seeing an improvement in his excema. I have a teleconf call with the Doc on April 17, four weeks after our intitial appt, to go over how we are doing. That's where I plan to discuss with the doctor about SCD and enzymes and if ds should take it, etc.

Question: I made almond flour bread yesterday and it was







Also, I got sores on my tongue with the nuts. I soaked the almonds for 24 hrs. and dried them. Then I ground up the nuts. I thought if I soak the almonds the sores would not be on my tongue. Anybody else have sensitivities to nuts on the SCD.

Any good recipe for bread? I tried the one in the SCD book.

Oh, I am 40! As of March 26 and I am ttc!!!! I beat you mammas in age and ttc


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I read about lines between the brows elsewhere -- and a friend of mine had told me about it years ago. It's from Chinese face reading.

Hey, nicholas_mom, I'm 40 as of last December, and probably won't ttc unless I find a new dh who wants more kids (my current one doesn't). Anyway, as far as the sores on your tongue, that sounds like an allergic reaction, which can't be helped by any processing. Have you tried pecans? DS can't handle almonds, but pecans and cashews don't seem to bother him. Of course, they are much more expensive.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
The only info Ive seen about CLO being hard on the liver is IF you have a damaged liver. Then too much vitamin D can be hard to process (well the conversion and storage is hard on the liver.) Otherwise there isn't any other reason I'm aware of.
I have read a bit as my liver isn't doing so well, but haven't come across anything to make me stop my CLO. If anyone gets there before me, please share.

Heh... it was a slow day at work (most of the center is at a conference) and we finished the budget early today, and I always like a challenge. It took some hunting, but I found the following study (and only the following study):

Zidkova, Sajdok, et al.
Effects of oxidised dietary cod liver oil on the reproductive functions of Wistar rat
CZECH JOURNAL OF FOOD SCIENCES June 2004 22:108-120

Abstract: Weanling Wistar rats, males and females, were fed for 185 days with diets containing 15% of dietary fat in the form of a mixture of lard and partially oxidised cod liver oil. The proportion of cod liver oil in the dietary fat ranged from 0 to 100%, and the content of malondialdehyde from 0.3 to 19.6 mg/kg of the fat used. Animals fed with diets containing higher proportions of oxidised cod liver oil had higher concentrations of malondialdehyde in their livers. Serum lipid levels were lower in animals fed with higher proportions of cod liver oil than in animals fed control diets (milk fat or lard). The lowest concentration of serum lipid was found in the rats fed the diet containing half of its fat as fish oil. Increased intakes of cod liver oil resulted in lower body weight gains, weights of livers, kidneys, and weights of the reproductive organs. The relative weights of livers and kidneys/body weight were higher in the groups with higher intakes of cod liver oil. High intakes of cod liver oil led to a drastically impaired fertility of females, a decreased litter size, a higher postnatal mortality, and an increased incidence of morphologically abnormal spermatozoa in males.
----

Malondialdehyde is formed by lipid peroxidation of unsaturated fatty acids and is a marker for oxidative degradation of cellular membranes. It is apparently both mutagenic and carcinogenic, so it appears to be used in a variety of tests from cancer to alcoholic disease.

First, these were rats, so who knows how it applies to humans (though rats are pretty comparable physiologically to humans). Secondly, while our dietary fat may hit the 15% mark (and in some cases exceed that), certainly only a miniscule amount of that comes from CLO.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

here's a question about nuts and reactions...

if almonds do bad things, what about fruit in the same family? apricots, plums, peaches are all really closely related to almonds...

i have heard that people who react badly to poison ivy should be cautious with pistachios, cashews and mangos (same plant family).


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## cj'smommy (Aug 14, 2003)

Hi everyone. I'm subscribing to this thread hoping to learn a few things.









After months of misery my first DS was diagnosed with MSPI, so I did the no dairy/soy diet for over a year because I was bf'ing him. The diet seemed to help but at almost 3.5 he still seems to have problems. He eats yogurt all the time and I do give him Florastor Kids from time to time if he's having diarrhea, which if he doesn't eat his yogurt he does get. He also has a ton of gas.

I cut dairy before my second DS was born since I was told if one has it the other usually does and it's worse. He's much better than Connor was but still seems to struggle. He has Reflux as well.

I have lots of gastro issues, non diagnosed though. I think all three of us have something. My DH says they inherited my gastro system. Poor kids.

So the enzymes are safe for breastfeeding? Is this something I should try? I'm also dairy free so I can't have Kefir. I need to read the whole thread I guess, I'm really confused!









Off to read some more......

Thanks!


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## ldsmama1 (Apr 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Hello all,

I'm working on a "cheat sheet" but the search function glitches and server time outs here are thwarting it! It's coming soon...

This is my first time doing this. I am not sure if I am doing this right







. Can you tell me more about the diets I read everone talking about for kids with allergies. I have one son who has Add symptoms and elimination problems(10), another with skin problems(17months),and another with allergies to everything(3). He was the one I B.F. the longest.I also struggle with this one eating veggies. He won't even drink our green smoothies. He doesn't like textured things. My last two out of the four have had nusing problems so I have supplemented with Nutramegin. i have tried organic milk and soy formulas and it seems they have worse reflux and belly aches from that. I appreciate any info about the diet and health related topics and recipes re:veggies. Thanks!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

bluets, I have heard that foods in the same botanical families can cause problems for people with allergies, but I think it's an individual thing. DS gets digestive problems with almonds, but cherries, plums, and peaches don't bother him.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
.
Jane, when you do c, I'm going to use you as my guinea pig.







I was 37 when I had dd1 and won't be having any more. So, I'll follow your progress! I want to find out how differently you (and new babe) handle pregnancy, birth, etc. w/a healed gut!









from your mouth to God's ears!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

ldsmama1









See post #3 in this thread for links on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet. It's intended to heal the gut and therefore elminate food intolerances by allowing the digestion to work correctly. Also digestive enzymes are extremely helpful b/c they break down the food and it has a lesser chance of causing a reaction.

www.pecanbread.com is the site for kids and the SCD. A few good "veggie hiding" recipes there.

Soy is very hard to digest, it contains phytates which impair digestive enzymes.

I've been so stressed for time lately the cheat sheet has stalled!


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:

I thought if I soak the almonds the sores would not be on my tongue. Anybody else have sensitivities to nuts on the SCD.
man, i have this too! no way. what am i going to eat? there's nothing left! i am going to become an egg!

seriously, what to eat?

(and does anyone else feel entirely more sensitive to their foods overall?)

(ps--i know it's april...)


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
(and does anyone else feel entirely more sensitive to their foods overall?)

i'm somewhat afraid to eat new things. we have a set of foods that don't produce scary poops in ds - i'm reluctant to change that balance. so we're eating a lot of broccoli and carrots, much to dh's chagrin.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:

I thought if I soak the almonds the sores would not be on my tongue. Anybody else have sensitivities to nuts on the SCD.
Oh no, please don't tell me this is why my tounge has been sore today! I decided to try eating almond flour with a touch of honey and butter







as a treat (don't give me heck, I had a really rough day







)

Now my toungue is really sensitive at the tip, where I've been licking off the stuff from the spoon







(I originally thought it was the raw garlic which I hadn't eaten since on SCD. I did make sure to chop v. finely and mix with my soup [as a preventative for mastitis since I had a sore breast]. The sensitivity to almonds makes more sense though)


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Did someone start an April thread yet? I don't see one but I want to make sure...


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

i know i'm a newbie, but i'm going to be bold and start cause i need help!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Sorry, I never know what day it is!!

Everyone please move over to April's thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=432022


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## angelamclamb (Jul 31, 2003)

:








:


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Quote:

Hey, nicholas_mom, I'm 40 as of last December, and probably won't ttc unless I find a new dh who wants more kids (my current one doesn't). Anyway, as far as the sores on your tongue, that sounds like an allergic reaction, which can't be helped by any processing. Have you tried pecans? DS can't handle almonds, but pecans and cashews don't seem to bother him. Of course, they are much more expensive.
Thanks for the tip. I'll try the pecans or cashews.


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