# Anyone heard of non-surgical circumcision?



## mahogny (Oct 16, 2003)

While in a group discussion about circumcision, an acquaintance said that her son had a "non-surgical circumcision." That's the only thing she said about it, but she was kind of smug, as though that was a much kinder choice. You kind of have to know this person (I've known her for years) - she enjoys projecting a "holier than thou" stance on anything AP or NFL, and fancies herself an expert on every topic, even though she's been point-blank wrong on many occasions. The kind of person who just gets on my nerves, in other words.









So, what is "non-surgical circumcision"? Has anyone heard of it? Or was this just another load of bunk she was trying to pass off as real?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Sounds like a load of bunk. My only thought is that maybe she means that it wasn't in a hospital- done like a religious circ, but it's still a surgical process







You simply can't crush, rip and remove tissue without it being surgical...

I'd ask her to explain how that worked... I bet she doesn't know what she's talking about.

-Angela


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

Basically, they rip the foreskin from the head, insert a "bell" over the head, and "tie off" the foreskin so it necrotizes (sp?) and falls off.









I was speaking to a mother at my brother's wedding last year. She mentioned how her boy wasn't circumcised... I began congratulating her, then she explained how it was "bloodless" and there was no cutting involved. That's when I realized they had simply tied the foreskin off so it would fall off on its own.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

yeah, that was my other thought, that it was plastibell... but don't they still cut to get the bell on? Not to mention the ripping part....

-Angela


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## sahli29 (Jan 23, 2004)

//


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## boingo82 (Feb 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mattemma04*
...
So let me to you that lady can take her smugness and shove it because she did her son no favors by avoiding a scapel!


He didn't even avoid the scalpel. They still cut in a plastibell circumcision.

Here are some pics of the "non-surgical" abuse her son went through.
http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

In all circumcisions (including plastibell), they use SCISSORS to make the dorsal slit after making a crush line with hemostatic forceps. Avoid the scalpel, use SCISSORS!!!

I have heard quite pleasant descriptions of the plastibell circumcision from many, many ignorant parents online. They say something like, 'the doctor just tied a little plastic ring around the foreskin and it fell off after a few days. There was no cutting involved!' And I am filled with rage that this is how the doctors tell the parents what happened to their son, and they just believe it. I hold doctors completely responsible for the entire circumcision atrocity.


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mahogny*
So, what is "non-surgical circumcision"? Has anyone heard of it? Or was this just another load of bunk she was trying to pass off as real?

As you can see from the posts above, there is simply no such thing. There are the same number of cuts with a Plastibel circumcision as with any other. She gets to be wrong again.

Plus, The Food and Drug Administration has issued a warning about the Plastibel Device because it has a high complication rate of infections that can be life threatening.

Circumcision advocates are purposely misleading parents to believe the Plastibel Device is a kinder, gentler method and many buy into the lies and believe that their son did not suffer. This is totally not true. All circumcisions are surgery and involve cutting.

Frank


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

I feel worse for these babies than for the ones who get the surgical kind. I can't imagine having to have a clamp put on a VERY sensitive body part for your first few days of life. Consider how painful it is to put a clothespin on your nose for a few minutes. UGH UGH UGH


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

If you look at truely how the plastibel is done, they use scissors to cut off as much foreskin as they can and then leave the string to kill the remaining foreskin's blood supply. Here's a comparison of plastibel vs. gomco:

http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/description.html

Plus you can just go to http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/methods.html and look up various descriptions of each method.


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## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)

Yeah, there's a common misconception among many on birth/expecting clubs about plastibell circumcision too it seems. The truth is, baby still gets a dorsal crush line, then slit, and then after the bell is tied on, they trim off the 'excess'. I've actually read mothers claiming it was painfree because they don't cut anything. @@

Jen


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

I like being informed... but wow... I wish there weren't such things in the world to be informed about









love and peace.


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## Terpatude (Nov 19, 2004)

I think I am going to be sick







uke

smug bee-otch


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## SyrenCyn (Jul 16, 2005)

A few months ago I saw this type of MGM mentioned on a 'pro-circ' site. It was described as being 'painless' and 'bloodless'. Though I can't open the images right now do to kiddos looking at the computer, I remember it being incision-free. I believe it has stuck to Malaysia and isn't in the US....yet.

::link contains graphic images::

http://www.circlist.com/instrstechs/taraklamp.html

Your friend reminds me of a neighbor I once had who was proud that her son's penis was 'too big' for the plastibel and so he had to be 'done the old fashioned way'. uke


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## calngavinsmom (Feb 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SyrenCyn*
A few months ago I saw this type of MGM mentioned on a 'pro-circ' site. It was described as being 'painless' and 'bloodless'. Though I can't open the images right now do to kiddos looking at the computer, I remember it being incision-free. I believe it has stuck to Malaysia and isn't in the US....yet.

::link contains graphic images::

http://www.circlist.com/instrstechs/taraklamp.html

Your friend reminds me of a neighbor I once had who was proud that her son's penis was 'too big' for the plastibel and so he had to be 'done the old fashioned way'. uke


The foreskin still needs to be cut away, it is similar to the plastibell method used on infants.

Quote from article:
The device is much more bulky than a Plastibell and remains on the penis for 7 to 10 days until it falls off. If the foreskin is tight, *a dorsal slit* is required to gain access for the bell to be applied over the glans. The foreskin trapped forward of the clamping device is *cut away* after the clamp has been in place 20 minutes or so. The glans and frenulum are protected and the frenulum is never cut during this procedure.

That is two incisions for those of you who are counting









From what I have seen there are absolutely no cutless, painless or bloodless circumcisions....like many pro-circ parents would like to believe.

Take care,
Tara


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## Daisyuk (May 15, 2005)

Yes, it's the latest sicko instrument of torture for adults and babies...can you imagine having to wear one of them for 5 days?

http://www.smartklamp.com/

I hope their instrument is more accurate than their geography!


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## colaga (Nov 7, 2003)

Sounds like a bizarre punishment or torture implement from medieval times, doesn't it?


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## Guest* (Aug 5, 2004)

Ugh...I wish I wouldn't have opened this thread. It's disgusting that it's legal. uke

Poor babies.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daisyuk*
Yes, it's the latest sicko instrument of torture for adults and babies...can you imagine having to wear one of them for 5 days?

http://www.smartklamp.com/

I hope their instrument is more accurate than their geography!


Well heck, we could even go swimming while wearing one. Gee golly whiz, sign my son up right now! **rolls eyes**

~Nay


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## LadyMarmalade (May 22, 2005)

ouch!!! There's no way to take a foreskin off without removing skin from the body - and no matter how that skin is removed it's going to be hurt!


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## MonicaS (Oct 27, 2002)

Yeah, she has to be referring to the plastibell. Before I learned the truth about circ, I was duped into thinking it was the more humane way to circumcise. It was described to us in childbirth prep class that the foreskin gets tied off and then falls off after a few days. I put in my birthplan that that is what we wanted for our possible son(had a DD, thank goodness!). All the OB said was that we would have to have another Dr do it, b/c she didn't use the PB. I didn't even think to ask why.







:

If I had gone through w/ it, I may have believed just what your friend said. It was non-surgical. I'm soooo glad I had DDs before it was too late.


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *colaga*
Sounds like a bizarre punishment or torture implement from medieval times, doesn't it?

Actually, I once found a site of medieval torture devices and one was to cut off fingers. It was nearly exactly like the Mogen clamp!

Mutilation Sheers....

http://www.occasionalhell.com/infdev...ation%20Shears

Mogen Clamp....

http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/methods.html

(Scroll down a bit)


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## homemademomma (Apr 1, 2004)

i am so sick and angry that this abuse happens to little babies every freaking day. i CANNOT believe we live in a society where it is encouraged to traumatize and mutilate our newborns. no wonder our kids turn out so *messed* up.


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

Did anyone watch the video? It's in the section for medical professionals. It shows the procedure with happy music playing in the background, interspersed with shots of happy smiling boys. It was seriously disturbing. They kept talking about "The Fine Art of Male Circumcision." *shudder*


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

I've seen some plastibell circumcisions - those are not a work of art! Lumpy, bumpy, uneven and adhered are some adjectives that come to mind.
Has anyone ever had a skin tag removed by tying it? It throbs and hurts like all hell for 3 days until it falls off. I now take them off with manicure scissors to avoid the throbbing. From this personal experience and my research, I would suggest that this method is likely to be more painful and give a poor result that are more likely to need revision later.

I suspect that this method would work well for any fleshy body part - and that thought is mostly confimed by checking the archives at BMEzine.com. Do you think any woman would suggest that her labia be removed by this method?


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *minkajane*
Did anyone watch the video? It's in the section for medical professionals. It shows the procedure with happy music playing in the background, interspersed with shots of happy smiling boys. It was seriously disturbing. They kept talking about "The Fine Art of Male Circumcision." *shudder*

The one where- for the tara clamp? I seem to remember something to that effect.


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Apricot*
I suspect that this method would work well for any fleshy body part - and that thought is mostly confimed by checking the archives at BME.com. Do you think any woman would suggest that her labia be removed by this method?

Lots of doctors will do labiaplasty. Its turning into standard plastic surgery, it seems.


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

But not by tying off and clipping - they use scapels and stitches.


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## mahogny (Oct 16, 2003)

Wow, everybody!

Thanks for all the replies, and for confirming my instincts that this lady was full of it and full of herself!

Isn't it surprising that people who claim to be, and who strive to be so natural and AP circumcise? Sometimes people who are so educated on so many things (childbirth, breastfeeding, immunizations, etc) really throw my brain for a loop when they circumcise their babies.

I guess it shows how ingrained in the culture it is. In my area, 85% of baby boys are circ'ed. (My ped refuses to do them!







However, my ped is also the first to admit that all the other peds in town think she's wacko for a multitude of reasons!)


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *homemademomma*
i am so sick and angry that this abuse happens to little babies every freaking day. i CANNOT believe we live in a society where it is encouraged to traumatize and mutilate our newborns. no wonder our kids turn out so _messed_ up. excuse the language.









: I am literally in tears right now. I feel sick. Dd saw the pictures I opened and said "Oh mama! They are cutting my brother! Why would somebody do that to him? That's so bad!" I am NEVER opening any of these again. I didn't know what to tell her. My emotions got the best of me and I told her that naughty people do that and that wasn't her brother, that he is ok. She then went over and gave him a hug and said "Don't worry Drew, nobody will ever never cut your penis." Then she said, "Boy Daddy's is going to freak out when he finds out what those people were doing." She'll be four on Monday.


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Apricot*
But not by tying off and clipping - they use scapels and stitches.

(Re: labiaplasty). So? So does a freehand circ!

Let me find the link to tools used for US MEDICAL female circ!

http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/index15.html


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## colaga (Nov 7, 2003)

I found this is in the frequently asked questions section:
(http://www.smartklamp.com/medical/faq.html)

Quote:

A: For newborn circumcisions you may decide to apply the SmartKlamp® only during the circumcision, and remove it after some minutes; a number of trials is ongoing to define which method is the better alternative.
I wonder whose babies are these trials performed on! _Excuse me, do you mind if we experiment with your son's penis?_

and slightly lower:

Quote:

The application of the clamping mechanism will cause a pain sensation
A pain *sensation* ???

And they go on to suggest that it's best to perform this type of circumcision without an injection of anesthetic as it might increase the boys anxiety prior to circumcision!!!


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nathan1097*
(Re: labiaplasty). So? So does a freehand circ!

Let me find the link to tools used for US MEDICAL female circ!

http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/index15.html

I thought we were exclaming in disgust that this "woman" felt superior for subjecting her son a "cut-free" but more barbaric procedure.

Do I really have to prove my anti-circ stance in "the case against circumcision"? I thought we were all on the same page.
Eliminating the crutches that people use to justify circ is an essential part of wiping out RIC.

If some adult woman feels a need to get labiaplasty, she is welcome to do so. If an adult man choses to get a circumcision, is that not his right? Adults often make changes to their bodies that I would not make for myself. But I treasure my right to be in ultimate control of my body, so I defend their rights and do my best to shepard children to adulthood with their integrity intact.


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## calngavinsmom (Feb 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Apricot*
I thought we were exclaming in disgust that this "woman" felt superior for subjecting her son a "cut-free" but more barbaric procedure.

Do I really have to prove my anti-circ stance in "the case against circumcision"? I thought we were all on the same page.
Eliminating the crutches that people use to justify circ is an essential part of wiping out RIC.

If some adult woman feels a need to get labiaplasty, she is welcome to do so. If an adult man choses to get a circumcision, is that not his right? Adults often make changes to their bodies that I would not make for myself. But I treasure my right to be in ultimate control of my body, so I defend their rights and do my best to shepard children to adulthood with their integrity intact.









:

Right there with ya sister. I have no problem with what one would do with their *OWN* body. Piercings, tattoos, breast augmentation, or circumcision(or other genital modifications) male or female. My problem is when it is done on unconsenting minors. The methods used or the location in which it is done has no bearing on the ethics at the heart of the issue, bodily integrity and the rights of the individual.

Take care,
Tara


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