# Water Issue...ANGRY....need advice



## mama_kass (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm having a bit of an issue. Here is the body of the letter I wrote to my son's school. This will let you in on what is happening. I wrote this after he got in trouble for disrupting the class by drinking water......

Yesterday I sent Paxton to school with bottled water. He has been experiencing thirst at school and coming home with headaches. On Monday his headache was so bad that he vomited his dinner and went straight to bed. I can only attribute these headaches to dehydration.
He has been complaining to me about being very thirsty at school and having little opportunity for drinking breaks. Paxton arrives at school at eight o'clock and does not get home from the after school program until six. He says that he gets to drink only at breakfast, lunch and snack. He told me that after recess and P.E. he is only aloud to drink to the count of three or five. I'm concerned that he is not getting enough water.
I apologize if he disrupted your class by drinking his bottled water. I instructed Paxton to please drink his bottled water whenever he was thirsty. Hopefully you can make accommodations for him to increase his fluids regularly during school hours.

The responce I recieved was if I want my son to drink water in class I need to take him to the doctor and get a note. They said that if he can bring in water everyone will want to and they can not have that type of disruption.

I am so














ANGRY! Every child should be allowed free access to water! Dehydration is very serious. In fact it can cause death quickly in children. It's just inhumane to refuse children water upon request!

I want to do something about this. What would your next step be?


----------



## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Contact the principal's office next. Also, leave a phone call for the teacher. Let him or her know that you are willing to work with concerns about not disrupting class. (I can't imagine what is disruptive about drinking water--is there no time for the poor children to use the bathroom? Ridiculous!)

Oh, when you speak with the principal, make sure to talk about Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You know, tell them that your child has to be healthy and not thirsty in order to learn.


----------



## saturnine25 (Mar 26, 2002)

It makes me FURIOUS to hear how the school has responded to this issue!! It's not as if he's sitting there drinking juice or soda- it's WATER, for crying out loud! Anyway, one of the comments in your post caught my attention. Your son is probably fine, but the extreme thirst and afterward, headache and vomiting can be early warning signs of diabetes. My husband was diagnosed as a Type 1 diabetic when he was 10- after experiencing similar symptoms. So, if you haven't already, you might want to have him screened just to be on the safe side.


----------



## chellemarie (Jan 17, 2003)

I seriously thought my grade school headaches were caused by afternoon Math. I know now I was super thirsty.

I'm also bothered the school doesn't encourage more hand-washing. Grr.

Anyway, I would also contact the principal. I think having bottled water in class would disrupt the class much less than asking to go to the fountain. (Which I always did when I was restless and wanted to mess around.)

Oh, and keep sending the water to school with your son if it seems to be preventing his headaches.


----------



## anothermama (Nov 11, 2003)

I'm gonna play devils advocate here....

Having been a teachers aide in a 1st grade class before, I see where they are coming from. The nature of the beast is that if your son is allowed to bust out his water whenever he wants, ALLLLLL the kids will want to, some will feel left out because they can't...etc etc etc. I personally don't think it's ok for a kid to get special treatment like that...being able to drink in class whenever he wants if no one else can. If a parent wants special treatment for their child, they should have to offer some sort of proof it's needed, and not just because they want it.

Also, kids a super resiliant. I have never worked with a kid who got dehydrated like your son seems too. In thinking back to my school days as well as my days as an aide, I really don't think that water at recess and lunch only is that unreasonable unless it's excessively hot at the time.

That said.....your sons health is worrysome. I personally am not a huge fan of running to the doctor for every little thing and it's always been a struggle for me with my daughters day care to get them to understand that....we just DONT run to get doctors notes for everything they want.

I know youre angry, however I think that you need to take the bigger picture into consideration. They probably have a million and a half pissy parents at their throats wanting special treatment for THEIR child every day (not saying this is you...just saying that they may percieve this to be the situation). If it were me, I'd go in with the facts, and be firm, but also try to be non confrontational. Clearly, your son is having an issue with this and the school SHOULD work with you, because as another poster said...your child needs to be healthy to learn. Maybe you can offer an olive branch ("Hey, we're willing to make sure he's well hydrated before school if you'll let him take as many fountain breaks as he needs to".). Work with the teacher....I can see him/her not wanting to disrupt their class, and I can also see them not wanting it to be a habit just to get out of class...maybe offer to re-evaluate the situation in a certain ammount of time if the situation doesn't improve or becomes disruptive.

Also, work with your son to make sure he takes the time to drink enough before school and at school. I wonder how much of the effects of dehydration he shows at school or not and if it's a lot, why aren't his teachers recognizing it??

just some thoughts...


----------



## MelMel (Nov 9, 2002)

why do you need a doctors excuse to tell the teacher that humans need water to survive?

why is it 'disrupting' for children to be hydrated...it is a basic need, not a luxury....nor is it 'special treatment'


----------



## chellemarie (Jan 17, 2003)

DITTO CK'smama. My teachers always had a cup of water or coffee at their desks. And I would be dyyyyyyyyyyying of thirst and sucking down the water after recess and hear, "That's enough. There are others in line and we have things to do."

But I was still thirsty.


----------



## AmandasMom (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

The nature of the beast is that if your son is allowed to bust out his water whenever he wants, ALLLLLL the kids will want to, some will feel left out because they can't...etc etc etc. I personally don't think it's ok for a kid to get special treatment like that...being able to drink in class whenever he wants if no one else can. If a parent wants special treatment for their child, they should have to offer some sort of proof it's needed, and not just because they want it.

Um... since when is allowing someone to have a drink of water "special treatment". are public schools this screwed up that they actually see someone drinking water as disruptive? how sad and pathetic!


----------



## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

My kids are in public school and I am the product of the public school system.

While I'm sure most teachers have a much different opinion of classroom activity than parents do, my opinion is the one that counts, not theirs. I realize that this my sound harsh but we are talking about _my child_ - not a kid or a class of kids.

My childrens school allows all children to keep a bottle of water on their desk. Period. The kindergarten kids don't really have desks so they all have water fountains in the classroom and are able to get water at will _without asking_

The problem is that your child's teacher is just exercising muscle. That infuriates me. If all the children had a bottle of water on the desks, it would be no big deal and the class and teacher would get used to it.


----------



## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Oh! I also meant to say, I would go to the principal.

If the principal gave me trouble I would go higher.

My kid would have water on his desk tomorrow, I would take him to school and have a little talk with his teacher in the morning.

I KNOW! Drop by the store and buy a case of water and bring one for everyone so that it's fair









Don't you all feel sorry for my kid's teachers!


----------



## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

That's odd..

Mercury's school list stated a bottle of water for drinking during class..

I agree with you.. Dehydration can cause or exaccerbate migraine headaches, which can (and does to me) make you wanna throw your supper up..

Some people are dumb..I'd ask the teacher how much they drink through out the day, and why a CHILD'S needs would be any different..

I think this is another case of "kids aren't really people yet" attitude..

Warm Squishy Feelings..

Dyan


----------



## manitoba_mommy (Jun 20, 2003)

To be honest I am a home schooler so take this with a grain of salt...

Special treatment? It is special treatment for a kid to have water? Of course all the kids are going to want some! And, equaly, of course all of the kids should get some.

Even industrial live stock operations consider it cruelty to deny their "charges" constant access to water, so why is it "special treatment" to provide it for our own spiecies?

Oh, and don't say "because animals can't ask for it" because neither can your average school kid.

Give them heck and get your son hydration.

MM


----------



## AmyG (Jan 30, 2002)

A lot of schools are allowing students to have water at their desks now. IMHO, all of them should.

I have been a teacher before. I know that allowing all students to have water can be a problem. There will be spills. There will be days that some kids forget their water and want some. The teacher needs to find a way to deal with it. Children's health is more important than spilled water.

We all NEED to drink throughout the day. It's important for our health, and it's impossible to learn if we aren't rested, well-fed, and hydrated.

I would ask for a change in policy. Talk to other moms. Talk to parents whose kids are in nearby schools. Many may already allow water. If you don't get anywhere, find written evidence that kids need water (shouldn't be hard to find) and give it to the principal. This is an important change for your child and the other children in the school.


----------



## bestjob (Mar 19, 2002)

My dd's school also expects that every child will bring a bottle of water to his or her desk every day. Most kids use sports-type bottles so they don't spill. They sip them when they are thirsty. There are occasional waterfights during recess, so the children are not supposed to take waterbottles outside. That's okay with me because I've noticed that many kids don't keep track of their things very well at dd's school.

If your ds's school doesn't recognize the importance of hydration, try assembling a fact list, approach the school council and the school administration, and work to make the school better for all the kids, not just Paxton. There really are other parents who would like schools to be friendlier to kids, and you are speaking for them when you take up this issue.


----------



## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Find out when the next school board meeting is and ask to be put on the agenda. Try to get a district wide policy change. Gather your facts and present an arguement for the policy. Like many have said before, it seems like a pretty basic need and if they implement a policy to make it less disruptive (like spill-proof glasses), it would improve learning.


----------



## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

I think you need to take a careful approach in order to get the change that you want (for all children in the school to be able to remain hydrated during the day).

If you take the approach that you have - ie telling your child to do something that is against school policy, you are setting up a conflict straight away. A more productive approach would be to work with the teacher and school to understand the importance of hydration for brain function - which will work in their favour in the end.









From the teacher's perspective, if she is facing suddenly having thirty children with bottles of drinks when they have never had them before, she is facing possible chaos for the first few weeks! Also, if you are allowed to dictate to your child that he is allowed to break school rules according to your own values, what does she do when Hayley and Kurt turn up with a can of coke, and Janine brings in a Twix because her mum doesnt want her getting hungry in class? I totally agree that you are right that all children need free access to water during class, but the way to instigate change is not to tell your child to just go ahead and follow only your instructions in school. Not every parent will agree with your values, and the responsibility for school policies lies with the principal, not the individual parent. However unreasonable a school policy is, the way to get it changed is not to be confrontational or to involve your child in breaking the rules. You need to think about the message that this gives your child - plus you are far less likely to instigate change by working in isolation!

There are ways that schools can make water available to children during the day without it creating chaos and disruption, but it needs to be done as an overall policy, not according to the individual parent's agenda. It will probably be tough for the teachers to rethink this and to take the plunge and introduce a system. Be mindful of the fact that teaching up to thirty young children at once is not an easy task, and that new approaches are often threatening for teachers, who often work on overload already. Put yourself in her shoes - if someone came in and just told you to reorganise your home and alter your home rules and systems overnight, you would respond with a mixture of resentment and fear of the unknown, and probably not be able to stand back and look at the issue clearly.

I would not send your son with his bottle for a while, and approach the Principal calmly and in private. Arm yourself with facts and documentation - and persuade him/her that actually, if children are well fed and watered during the school day, their achievement levels with improve and his SAT figures may soar as a result.









A useful link -
http://www.alistair-smith.co.uk/information/water.htm

Good luck!


----------



## Oh the Irony (Dec 14, 2003)

Thanks for posting this. I have been concerned about my son's water consumption at school--he's in K. I was wondering what I could do...

In Wolf's cool co-op preschool they had little cups on the wall and pitchers of water. They could pour these and have water at times when they were moving around some--like center time.

I think the school thinks milk is the answer to everything.

Paula


----------



## BAU3 (Dec 10, 2001)

I don't think the water would cause a huge commotion unless they let it.

my sons K class is allowed to drink,either from thier own water bottles or the fountain in the class, anytime they want. No big deal. Achild gets up.. goes to cubby for own bottle or to the fountain, takes a drink.. and goes back to whatever he/she was doing... ocasionaly this will spark a small chain reaction.. but more often than not it goes unnoticed. They are also allowed to have a small snack of theit own if they wish (provided it's healthy) and once again its no big deal.. when they all know that their basic needs can be met whenever they need to, it just becomes part of everyday school life. No one tends to try to take advantage or fell "special".

I would suggest to " someone" that if your child drinks water during the day, and the other children AAlllll want some.. to suggest that the chilren are more than welcome to bring in thier own.... after an initial "freaking out" that they can actually drink water in school.. I'm sure it will become NO BIG DEAL

Mama Kass... I would be angry also.... your child should have access to water anytime he wishes. PERIOD. dehydration issues aside.. he should have the right to drink whenhe's thirsty..


----------



## mama_kass (Jan 11, 2003)

Thank you all for posting. I really got a lot out of your responses. I did get a response from the principal. He was the one who said that I need to take him to the doctor and get a note. My wish is not to have special treatment for my son. All the children need to have free access to water. That is my goal.

I do need to take him to the doctor. It is my guess that he is experiencing dehydration. A doctor needs to assess what is going on with him.

Still the water issue is huge. He is at school for 10 hours and gets 3 cups of fluid all day with two breaks for water from the fountain to the count of three or five depending on how much time they have.

I like the idea about fighting this from a cooperative point of view and not encouraging my ds to break rules. Honestly, I didn't expect to cause an issue by sending him to school with water. I am still sending him to school with water and have instructed him to drink it during breakfast, lunch, and after school snack. Now I've found out he may only have it at lunch and breakfast. The good news is that they have told him he may drink water from the fountain during his after school program. I feel like I've made a little head way.

I'm going to get this resolved. Not as easily as I'd hoped, but you have all given me some great ideas. I'm going to take him to the doctor and talk to the ped. Them I'm going to arm myself with info and begin working on this with the principal. I'll take steps from there according to how things are going.


----------



## magnoliablue (Dec 29, 2002)

I am reading this and grrrr ing because my kids are in private school and they still have similar issues....they had scheduled bathroom breaks, and if they had to pee in between they had to hold it...when I heard that you can BET the school heard from me...needless to say they can pee when they want to now







...organizing is big, as in getting all the parents together..you'll be amazed what a little group of parents on a mission can accomplish..so consider what the other poster suggested about contacting some of the other parents and all getting together to approach the schoolboard. Good Luck mama!


----------



## Parker'smommy (Sep 12, 2002)

I have to say Im totally shocked. I was a 2nd grade teacher for 6 years before choosing to stay home with ds and all the teachers I know always allowed water bottles in the classroom. My only thing was I made them keep them on the floor next to their desk as the bottles always would sweat and create a mess on their desks and if it spilled it was on the carpet not on their desk and papers. I think having their own water is less disruptive than having kids get up in the middle of lessons to go get a drink from the water fountain. I guess I just dont get it as I would think it would be a violation of some human right to not be able to have access to WATER at any time. Its not like its fruit juice or soda!! ( I had that happen in my class a few times. A kid would come with a water bottle filled with kool aid or one kid had Mountain Dew!!!! I kindly told the child that only water was allowed in class and wrote a short sweet note to the parent...problem solved)

Since you have already talked to the teacher and principal I think you should take a ride to the District Office and speak to someone there. GO in VERY quietly and non- confronting and non- threatening. They like nothing better than to turn down an overzealous parent. Tell them what your concerns are and that you will not accept anything less than your child and any other child being allowed to drink water in class whenever they want. Good luck!


----------



## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by saturnine25_
*It makes me FURIOUS to hear how the school has responded to this issue!! It's not as if he's sitting there drinking juice or soda- it's WATER, for crying out loud! Anyway, one of the comments in your post caught my attention. Your son is probably fine, but the extreme thirst and afterward, headache and vomiting can be early warning signs of diabetes. My husband was diagnosed as a Type 1 diabetic when he was 10- after experiencing similar symptoms. So, if you haven't already, you might want to have him screened just to be on the safe side.*
Oh man! That's true! Please let us know if this is the issue. If it is, and I really hope it's not, you should also let the school officials you contacted know that. That's something they should be thinking about as well. (Please let us know because I am a worry wart. Captain Worrywart.)

The whole "special treatment" argument is one of the most pernicious things about school. Say every other child doesn't need to drink, and yours does. So does that mean that your child shouldn't be allowed to drink?

Makes me think of my dad. He was very nearsighted. He had one teacher when he was boy who made him sit in the back of the room. Shouldn't ask for "special treatment."


----------



## AnnMarie (May 21, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mama_kass_
Thank you all for posting. I really got a lot out of your responses. I did get a response from the principal. He was the one who said that I need to take him to the doctor and get a note. My wish is not to have special treatment for my son. All the children need to have free access to water. That is my goal.
You need to go to the school superintendent next. If you make a big enough stink they will listen.

Quote:

I do need to take him to the doctor. It is my guess that he is experiencing dehydration. A doctor needs to assess what is going on with him.
That's not a bad idea, but I know that if I went 10 hours with that little to drink I'd be sick too. I'm one of those type of people that need a drink with me at all times. Hopefully your child is just one that needs to drink a lot like I do.

Quote:

I like the idea about fighting this from a cooperative point of view and not encouraging my ds to break rules. Honestly, I didn't expect to cause an issue by sending him to school with water. I am still sending him to school with water and have instructed him to drink it during breakfast, lunch, and after school snack. Now I've found out he may only have it at lunch and breakfast. The good news is that they have told him he may drink water from the fountain during his after school program. I feel like I've made a little head way.

I understand what you are saying, but sometimes we have to break the rules to protect our kids. If he's not getting enough to drink I would take him to school and tell his teacher that he WILL be allowed to drink water as he needs it. I'd buy him one of those sport bottles so there is less to worry about as far as spills go. Don't let them get away with it. I bet neither the teacher or the principal only drink during those times. Why should they make the kids?

Quote:

I'm going to get this resolved. Not as easily as I'd hoped, but you have all given me some great ideas. I'm going to take him to the doctor and talk to the ped. Them I'm going to arm myself with info and begin working on this with the principal. I'll take steps from there according to how things are going.
I wouldn't waste your time with the principal, like I said before, I'd go to the superintendent. I also wouldn't let them push me around like that. Remember, it's our tax dollars that pay them. They work for us. He's your child. You tell them, they don't tell you. JMO.









Good luck and please keep us updated!


----------



## AnnMarie (May 21, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by captain optimism_
*
Makes me think of my dad. He was very nearsighted. He had one teacher when he was boy who made him sit in the back of the room. Shouldn't ask for "special treatment."*








I had trouble hearing in the 1st grade and my mother told me that my teacher put me in the back of the room so she didn't have to bother with me.







: My mother burnt her hand on a wood stove when she was a baby and can't straighten out her fingers and when she was in school she used to get hit with a ruler because she didn't write with straight fingers.







: As long as we let schools get away with things they will.


----------



## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

I'm with AnnMarie!

I did not mean in my post for the child to take his bottle of water in anyway.

I meant for the op to go in and TELL the teacher the way it was going be!










It may not be popular or kind or considerate, but my child would have water WHILE I was making the effort to talk to the school board and principal.

The reason I say this is exactly because of Captain optimism and AnnMarie's post.

My 4th grader complained this year that he could not see the board. His teacher told him that she could see the board and that all the other children could see the board and she made him sit by himself for complaining. I took him to the eye doctor and he couldn't read the top line of the eye chart!

Sometimes, we have to go to bat for our kids and be aggressive...

Children are very easy to dismiss. I am not!


----------



## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by lab_
*
My 4th grader complained this year that he could not see the board. His teacher told him that she could see the board and that all the other children could see the board and she made him sit by himself for complaining. I took him to the eye doctor and he couldn't read the top line of the eye chart!
*
My goodness, that woman should be fired, or at least seriously reprimanded.

You should understand: my dad's teacher _understood_ that my dad was myopic. She was just an anti-Semite. (My dad was on the only Jewish kid in the class. It was the 1940s. Not that such things don't happen today, I'm just saying.) Your son's teacher sounds like a complete idiot. How could she not know that 3rd and 4th grade is the time when many children discover they need glasses? What was she, born in a barn?

Anyway, I hope the water thing will resolve well.


----------



## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

OH! Cap'm the best part is that he had BEEN complaining. For over a month. She finally just got sooooo frustrated because she asked him to read something and he got mad. He kinda raised his voice and said I CAN'T read it. Then she punished him. Let me tell you, that woman experienced some serious guilt! My kid doesn't mess around either! He's just like his mama! God love him!

If she wasn't so perfect all the rest of the time, it would have been a problem.

It is probably better that Mama Kass is handling this in such a diplomatic way. After all, her kid has to go to that school for a while. It is true that sugar catches more flies......

I just get sooo hot when it comes to these poor kids. They can be so cowed down. Your poor dad........


----------



## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

What morons!!!! The school my son went to all kids had water to sip on!! All day because there was no a/c! The entire district is/was that way. Matter of fact in one school because of a water fountain/lead pipe/water issue the cafeteria had to bring glasses of water to classes several and the kids HAD to drink it. They did this for months while the non-kitchen school plumbing got completely re-did.


----------



## PaganScribe (Feb 14, 2003)

Just to throw my two cents in:

I have serious bladder/kidney issues. I have been in the hospital four times in the past two years with kidney infections (including one staph infection). I had five different episodes of kidney stones during my pregnancy. I drink durn near CONSTANTLY to try and keep my kidneys doing okay.

I am also a high school teacher in a public school. Our school policy, which is very, very rigidly enforced, is that no child is allowed to bring anything -- even a water bottle -- to drink in the classroom, and we are not allowed to let them out of class to go to the water fountain.

The reasoning? As every single administrator I've asked has told me -- it might not be water in the bottle. It might be alcohol.









This has become a big issue with me and the admin. I push it ALL THE TIME. I tell my kids at the beginning of the year why I will be drinking when they can't. I tell them that they should complain, and have their parents complain, about the policy if they think it's unfair. I tell them that if they get a dr's note, the school HAS to let them have water. I tell them that no dr worth his salt would NOT give them a note for such a basic need.

I have written letters. I have approached the school board. I have photocopied article after article after article about the benefits of adequate hydration. And all it has amounted to is





















. I tell myself over and over and over again, though: someone within the system has to advocate for these kids. (And this is not the only issue I'm so vocal about. I truly believe in working from within to change this system!)

So -- be prepared for a long battle. I would be (and am) very angry too.


----------



## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

If the water is disruptive without a dr's note, how will it not be disruptive with a dr note???? How is it disruptive if they just make it policy that kids can bring a water bottle to class.

I'm in AZ going to school to become a teacher. I did observation last semester and the class I was in had a drinking fountain in it that the kids had free access to, they were also allowed to bring their own spill proof (sports-type) bottle if they wanted. If they brought frozen bottles, they either brought insulated bottles or slipped a sock on the bottom of the bottle to catch the condensation. There wasn't one spill the entire time I was there. I'm sure spill happened at one time or another, but it's just water. It's just so dry here- everyone is very aware of the need to stay hydrated.


----------



## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

even with doctor's notes - weekly ones - I had this one teacher not believe me when I told her I was in a car accident at the end of the previous school year and therefore shouldn't take pe. Doctor's notes aren't worth the paper they're writen on if a teacher doesn't want to believe them. (gr9)

Then there's the teacher (gr6/7) who didn't believe me when I said I couldn't see the board even from 5 feet away. Guess what? at the end of the school year, I finally got taken to an optometrist and ended up with glasses. The next year he razed me for it.

This is the same teacher that let me soil myself when my period happened in his class - I would not be let to go to the bathroom and more than once came home with bloody pants. He wouldn't let me go to the water fountain for water either and I can remember spending 10 minutes at the fountain one hot June day cause I was so thirsty.

The stupid idiot never lost his tenure no matter how much my mother complained. So I would sit there in soiled pants and thirsty as hell until recess or lunch or end of school. Stupid idiot. Girls need special treatment - especially when they first get their periods!

So go complain - all the way up to the superintendant of schools - and kick that teacher and principal's arses!!!


----------



## AnnMarie (May 21, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Mamid_
*
This is the same teacher that let me soil myself when my period happened in his class - I would not be let to go to the bathroom and more than once came home with bloody pants.*








That pisses me off. We had one incident with my daughter last year. Her teacher wouldn't let her go to the bathroom and she peed her pants. Her teacher called me before my daughter got home and didn't tell me that she wouldn't let her go.







She called to tell me to tell my daughter not to hold it and wait until the last minute to go. I felt something was off and I said that wasn't like her and I told the teacher that I have instructed my kids to go to the bathroom if they really have to go even if the teacher says no...not knowing that's what happened. I was pissed when my daughter got home and told me what happened. I again told her that if it ever happens again that she's just to go to the bathroom and tell her teacher to call her mother and I'll take care of it.


----------



## manitoba_mommy (Jun 20, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Mamid_
*even with doctor's notes - weekly ones - I had this one teacher not believe me when I told her I was in a car accident at the end of the previous school year and therefore shouldn't take pe. Doctor's notes aren't worth the paper they're writen on if a teacher doesn't want to believe them. (gr9)

*
This reminds me of something that happened to a friend of my DHs when they were in grade 9. He had CF, fairly well controlled but he was still not supposed to put a lot of strain on his lungs. Well, his class had a policy that if you did not have a doctors note each and every time, you had to fully participate in PE. Mike usualy remembered his note and the teachers knew darn well he had CF. One day he forgot it, the idiot teacher forced him to run the mile everyone else had to. He ended up passing out half way through the run and landing in the hospital overnight.

The teachers did not get in any trouble because he did not have a note and his mom was too cowed by the schools authority to fight them.

UG, sorry to vent on you thread.

MM


----------



## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

I haven't gone through the replies so I do not know if this issue was resolved yet or not but...DS is encouraged to bring a water bottle to school. All teh children are. I can not understand what would make this school so differant or have a problem with it. Is it a writted rule somewhere that they can not have one, if not there may not be anything they can do about it if he does bring one. I just can not fathom how it could cause a disturbance, you need to go have a sit down talk with them and if that does not help then the school board as this is something that children should be allowed to have.


----------



## mountain (Dec 12, 2001)

I have to admit I thought this was a fluff issue of the times...thinking, ok a kid's not gonna suffer if they only drink water 3 times during a school day...
But have since changed my mind after reading these posts...thanks for the mind opening...I kinda realized the issue is not about water necessarily, but about the mindset, as one wise mama said, that "children are not people yet". That has been the prevailing attitude r/e women and children since this stupid patriarchy started...the designation of the 'underclass' (eg. those not 'producing' material capitalist goods, minorities to exploit, etc) is made to follow arbitrary rules of the ruling class...it's philosophy at work---who says that philosophy degree was useless








Anyway, I guess I just believe the children will absorb their education if they have their basic needs met, there's that Maslow theory again! What's the big deal? I just wish we didn't have to waste our time on these non-issues...but it's true that the only things that happen to you are those you let happen to you
Fight for your minds!


----------



## Suzetta (Dec 21, 2003)

I love the controversy of this post.

Why?

Because I can see both sides SO clearly! As a teacher I tried to be very humanitarian. Drinks when you want. Bathroom breaks as needed. (these are two very important issues for teachers as well as students).

What happened?

Kids would go trash the bathroom, pee on the floors, leave the classroom with the excuse of going to the bathroom only to cause chaos else where. With free drinking, you get kids constantly out of their seats to get a drink. Along the way they would bump into several desks, pull a few pigtails etc.

Then, of course you get the fights which ensue because Simon bumped into Stanley during reading, little girls crying because their pigtail was pulled....

Okay...so you let them drink all they want at the fountain under supervision...if each kid takes one minute, you have killed 30 minutes at the drinking fountain...not to mention another 30 at the bathroom

you get my drift.

Now....I know, that most of you mamas are saying "my child would never do that!" and maybe they wouldn't at home, but peer pressure is very strong..and even if they won't..many of their classmates would...which is why schools make blanket policies.

Teachers are in a NO WIN situation. Everybody wants you to get academic results...but nobody wants you to say "no" to their child. I have 30 kids, and 30 sets of parents who believe rules and order are necessary, as long as 'my kid' gets his way.

Do I agree with blanket policies? Absolutely not. But, of course, then you end up making everyone mad because you are not 'fair'. "Why does Gracie get to do something when Ramone cannot be allowed to?"

It aint easy being a public school teacher!









############################################

I was surprised that you said your child has a 10 hour day! That is way too long for any child or adult!

############################################

If I were you, instead of trying to prove your point, have your child drink a good amount of water/juice before he leaves home, (I hope his school allows bathroom breaks!) Pack a nice bottle of water for him to drink at lunch, and make sure he drinks plenty when he gets home.

I give you this advice, not because I think the policy of water restriction is right...but because I have seen what happens behind the scenes when the adults in the school take an attitude on a child because of something like this. Depending on the type of school, it can get pretty ugly. Before you know it, the teachers are all talking about your kid and you, and how unreasonable you are. (again, I do not do this as a teacher, nor do I agree with it...it is just how it is!)

For example, the teacher could say to the class "Johnny thinks he is special, so he gets to break the rules and drink water while the rest of you must follow the rules. " If she is convincing enough, she will have all the kids mad at your son....I have seen it happen!


----------



## EMZ (Sep 25, 2003)

Honestly, if it were my child, I'd take him to the dr to get the note. Of course, I have health insurance so a dr visit isn't going to cost me more than $10 and then I'd have my "written" note from the dr (i'm sure most drs would have no problem writing up the note.)

Now, what concerns me is that this child's thirst is so excessive to cause dehydration. Have you ever had your child checked for diabetes since excessive thirst is a sign of diabetes?


----------



## SamuraiEarthMama (Dec 3, 2002)

As a homeschooler, I have been given the argument, "Why don't you use your energy to improve the local schools so ALL the children can benefit, instead of selfishly keeping your own kids safe at home?"

This thread has again affirmed my commitment to staying home!

When a momma has to fight for her kid to receive BASIC human rights... the ability to drink and pee when needed... well, even PRISONERS have access to those things!

I hear the frustration of the teacher who has to maintain order, and I'm aware that kids will cause chaos if given access to water and bathrooms. But it's NOT because they are kids, it's because they have been treated like animals, with no respect or dignity.

Do those kids pee all over or trash the bathroom at home? No, because they know that space and "own" it. The school is more of a cage, and they have no reason to honor or care for it. In fact, it's more of a sign of civil disobedience that they damage it.

So as long as you are committed to sending your child into such a situation, where they will gain no respect or autonomy until college, then you have to put up with policies that are designed to break their will and free thought. Controlling bodily functions like thirst and urination are part of that. You might win the right to allow your child to drink at his desk, but he will be ridiculed and teased by the teacher and other children for trying to break free from his constraints.

I hope this doesn't seem unnecessarily harsh. But you're not just fighting for access to water. If you really expect your child's needs to be honored, you need to reexamine the situation you are placing him in (10 hours a day? The teacher is spending more time with your child than you are! Do you trust her to be a surrogate parent? Did you choose her to raise your child? Please rethink this!)

If that teacher was not as committed to finding a way to hydrate your son as you were, then she doesn't deserve to be spending that much time with him.

Water, food, fresh air, exercise, safety, respect, dignity, honesty. I don't think these things should be withheld from children in the name of "education." But sadly, I am part of a tiny, tiny minority.

We all pick our own battles.

Katje


----------



## AnnMarie (May 21, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by klsabin_
*
So as long as you are committed to sending your child into such a situation, where they will gain no respect or autonomy until college, then you have to put up with policies that are designed to break their will and free thought. Controlling bodily functions like thirst and urination are part of that. You might win the right to allow your child to drink at his desk, but he will be ridiculed and teased by the teacher and other children for trying to break free from his constraints.*
NOT! I would not allow that to happen to any of my kids. I would keep making complaints until something was done about it, and quickly. I wouldn't not stand up for my child's rights because some teacher or child might be a jerk. We can't let them take away our kids' basic rights, and we can't let them be singled out because we fight for them.


----------



## Suzetta (Dec 21, 2003)

Quote:

Do those kids pee all over or trash the bathroom at home? . .
Again...I want to say that I can only speak for the school I worked at (an urban setting with a very needy clientele).....YES some of them do! But I know that where I worked was the extreme, with many children coming from homes full of drugs, and neglectful parents. Their behavior is deeper than civil disobedience...I think it is a sign of deep anger at their needs being unmet both at home and at school. The saddest part is that the few that come from homes like these ruin it for the rest of the sweet, lovable children.


----------



## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

This might should be on another board and I guess at this point we are totally hijacking this thread BUT.....

All the comments about homeschooling to keep kids away from "bad" teachers have me worried. I totally agree that homeschooling is the best. That said, my kids are in an unbelievable public school. I also hand pick each teacher my child has, and I don't apologize for that. I build a relationship with my child's teacher on a first name basis. I volunteer in each class (times 3) at least once a week. I also serve on the PTA board. You can have a productive, healthy, happy wonderful environment for your child in a public school setting. I know you ladies didn't mean to make me feel like I had to defend public school. Your intentions were to let everyone know how great your decision was. I agree. As a matter of fact, I will homeschool for middle school. I just want everyone else reading this thread to know that these things don't happen at every school. You don't have to settle for that sort of treatment.

Am I making myself understood or am I rambling????? I'm probably rambling.......

Anyway! I'm lucky to be where I am and sounds like you are too!


----------



## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

i'm also going to be the devils' advocate. i teach 1st grade in a public after school program.everyday about 10 minutes befor i do large group time i say"now is the time to get water or go to the bathroom" if a child chooses to interupt large group time for the entire class by saying " I need to get water" i say " I'm sorry. we're doing large group time" children need to learn how to budget their time for personal needs.

However, if a water bottle is sent , your son doesn't need to get up to drink water.

Today i think i'll tell my class to bring their own water.


----------



## AnnMarie (May 21, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by jannan_
*if a child chooses to interupt large group time for the entire class by saying " I need to get water" i say " I'm sorry. we're doing large group time" children need to learn how to budget their time for personal needs.*
It would be nice if it were that simple, but it's not. Not all children are the same. When you have to go, you have to go. Same with needing a drink. I'd die in your classroom. I'm the type that will use the bathroom before I go to bed and if I don't fall asleep right away I will have to get up sometimes as much as 4-5 times to go. Same with drinking. Not everyone can go to the bathroom or drink just a few times a day.


----------



## EMZ (Sep 25, 2003)

Is nobody else concerned that there might be a health issue involved here and that the boy should see a dr to rule out possibility of diabetes?

I see everyone has jumped onto the "that is what is wrong with our schools" but nobody has stopped to think that excessive thirst may possibily be leading to something bigger?

I remember as a child going for days in the hot summer time not drinking water (drank sodas which dehydrate) and yet never had a problem.


----------



## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

EMZ, several people have mentioned that there might be an issue with diabetes. My dh is a type I diabetic, and I worry about these things too. He had to wait 6 months to see a ped because they lived in the middle of nowhere, and I have made it clear that our own children wouldn't go for 48 hours of symptoms like that without being at the ped. That said, there are other symptoms of diabetes in kids (constant hunger/eating but still losing weight, for example).

Quote:

I remember as a child going for days in the hot summer time not drinking water (drank sodas which dehydrate) and yet never had a problem.
Some kids can do this; I never could. I sweat so profusely and so quickly when I'm warm that I can go from okay to severly dehydrated in a matter of minutes. The only times in my life that I've fainted have had to do with dehydration. For many people, this is a huge issue. Even as a small child, if I didn't get enough water I'd become very sick very quickly. It happened several times. We'd go on a field trip hiking, my canteen would empty quickly because I couldn't ration water like every one else and I'd end up in the ER because I'd passed out halfway along the trail. Some people need more water than others to get by, and I'm one of them.

When I was in junior high school, (after five years in private schools where I was allowed to do as I pleased) on the very first day my homeroom teacher passed out rules stating that bathroom breaks were to be limited to the time between classes (3 minutes), and so were water fountain breaks. I was very concerned about this; what if I got my period during class and needed to get a tampon or a pad? What if I really had to pee? (I had incontinence issues as a pre-teen). I showed my mother the rules and let her read them for herself. Less than five minutes later she had the principal on the phone and informed him that I'd be going to the bathroom/water fountain whenever I needed to, and if my teachers didn't like it then they could speak with a lawyer. "An 11 year old girl can have many reasons to go to the bathroom and none of them are anyone's business but her own. She shouldn't need to announce to the class or to her teacher that she needs to break the rules and go." The next day my homeroom teacher talked to me after everyone left and basically told me that the rules "weren't really meant for quiet kids like you "







: . Whatever; I didn't care as long as I could go when I needed to.

About homeschooling: I too believe that it's the best option, and am planning to homeschool my kids but I really don't think it's fair to go on a rant about it here and say things like "did you choose that teacher to raise your child?" You don't know why her children are in public school. Maybe she's a single mom who needs to work to keep a roof over her kids' heads. Homeschooling is not an option for everyone. Even though I'm planning to homeschool, I found that statement to be very inflammatory. This issue is not about homeschooling vs. public school or about parenting or a potiential medical problem. It's about one human being denying another human being a basic human need, plain and simple. I'd be livid if it was my kid, and I would instruct my child to either bring water to school or to get up without asking and use the water fountain when he needed to, even if it was "breaking the rules". I would never allow my child's very life to be endangered by someone just because they have no respect for children.


----------



## mountain (Dec 12, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by jannan_
*i teach 1st grade
... i say " I'm sorry. we're doing large group time" children need to learn how to budget their time for personal needs.

However, if a water bottle is sent , your son doesn't need to get up to drink water.

Today i think i'll tell my class to bring their own water.*
The only problem is that a 7 year old does NOT have that capablity!!! They hardly know what their personal needs are! Their own water is a great idea, and thank you for supporting their humanity.

I also teach an afterschool program, and it is a struggle to treat every child as an individual & not get mean when it is such a large group...but the more I read this thread, the more I see that the stress of large groups should not disrupt OUR ability to see children as humans with needs.

I don't think, as an adult, I would go to get a water fountain drink & go to the bathroom during a lecture...I would definitely go before, and bring a water bottle...but I'm an adult! the school issue seems so simple---bring spillproof water---I think you're gonna know if it's rum in there!

And I actually think homeschooling is a logical alternative to having some *sshole tell your kid whether they can sip on a bottle of water or not! My son is in school for 3 hours in Kindergarten---public school--the adult/kid ratio is 1:6 with aides and parent volunteers (me! among them). They have an open classroom where they can drink freely & I haven't witnessed a denial to the bathroom... his teacher is such a beautiful person and teaches my ds things I wouldn't have in my head to teach (different ideas, y'know )...so I'm glad I didn't homeschool this year, but if someone tries to go stupid on me next year or we decide the full school day is too long...I handpicked the teacher, too, like lab & will be putting the 1st grade teachers under scrutiny soon







lol Q: Would you let the kids have a water bottle in class? If not, you're fired!

My parents are both public school teachers & I've seen the bs. I am a public servant in my afterschool program, and I'm not gonna forget it. Any teacher who calls kids out to shame them over a bottle of water needs to be fired & go back to school to learn Maslow & some child development, too. They are pubic servants & need to act as such--or else get out and find a job where you can treat people like crap & get away with it (good luck!)

Why would anyone have kids just to shuttle them off to have someone else raise them? Some teacher they don't even know? This confuses me, as I birthed my babes so they would share good values with us & spend their precious time on earth with us as a family...I just could not give up my life with them for a few extra bucks or some stupid Disney vacation. I need to be involved & change the system...I can see the point of every parent wanting rules except for their child, but I fee like, if all parents were actually involved instead of leaving it up to a bunch of disinterested beauracrats to raise their kids, we could develop rules that were fair for ALL and not about power trips like this 'no water for you' issue...


----------



## homebirthx2 (Jan 3, 2004)

I am one who had my mom in the principle's office all the time during the elementary years. I was hard of hearing and severely allergic to foods, seasonal, environmental plus asthma. My teachers knew me like the back of their hands. I would need to do special things and none of the kids thought I was getting special atttention. Gee, I guess kids weren't spoiled back then. They knew someone had a special need and they didn 't make a big deal of it.

I was a student teacher not to long ago and when I was finished with that I found there was no way I was going into teaching in a public or private school. I saw things that needed to be changed so bad only the school system wouldn't do it. I could give you a long list of things. I am now going into nursing to work with children who have cancer. If they need me to help teach a child in the hospital fine, (that is one child and who would really appreciate the extra help I can give). If they need me to interpret for the child or an adult I would be glad to lend my help. If I am just suppose to be a nurse for the children then fine too. At least I will be helping out and these children will benefit from my job.

As for the water thing at your son's school. Bring in the water bottle and walk into the principles office to explain what is going on with your son and his health. By the time you are done in his/her office your son will have the water bottle in his desk everyday. Take pictures of a camera and if you have a video camera let it roll. Show the people at school how your son feels(ask him how he feels now and go through the dinner time and then when he gets sick let them see it and how he feels afterwards by going to bed) and how he looses his dinner on camera (yes I know it is gross, but it will get the point across).

If they all want water bottles then have a note go home with the child and have the parent buy a water bottle and leave the bottle at school everyday. The after school time for the teacher will be including cleaning the water bottles and getting them ready for the next day.

Good luck with your son and it will turn out for the best.


----------



## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

In the gifted program I attended in elementary school, there was one rule. It was "Take care of yourself." That meant that if you needed to get a drink, use the restroom, sharpen your pencil, etc., you were supposed to get up and do it as inobtrusively as possible. This worked. A lot of people (including some of the teachers in regular school) said it couldn't possibly, but it did. I think it had a lot to do with the respectful way we were treated by the teachers there.

In regular elementary school, there was a drinking fountain in every classroom, and every teacher had a girls' pass and a boys' pass for the restrooms. (The rationale for the passes was that if we had to evacuate due to fire or tornado, the teacher would be able to tell at a glance whether she needed to retrieve anyone from the restrooms.) The policy was that you could use these things at any time except while the teacher was lecturing, which was never more than about 30 minutes at a stretch. However, if you had an emergency and couldn't wait for the teacher to finish talking, you were allowed to raise your hand and ask to go. I think that's a reasonable policy.

Having water bottles at desks does sound like a good way to minimize distraction, compared to having kids walk across the room or out of the room. It's important tho to keep those bottles clean! I think Homebirthx2 is a little unrealistic in suggesting that the teacher do that--teachers have enough to do! Sounds to me like a job for a volunteer, or kids could just take their bottles home for cleaning every night like they do lunchboxes.

I hope Paxton's situation works out well!







I agree that a medical evaluation is important to make sure his headaches and vomiting aren't caused by a medical problem.


----------



## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Keep up the fight! On the bringing liquor to school thing, I have to say that I actually knew (not friends with, though







) some kids who put Vodka (no scent!) in their sports bottles and drank it on the way back from sporting events on the bus... But that was a minority, and I'll tell you what -- if it was done in a classroom, it wouldn't be a secret for long!

And I have to say, I doubt anyone "wants" their child to have to spend 10 hours per day in school & after school programs! My mom was forced to put my sisters in a latch-key type program because she had to work xx hours per week or she would have been kicked off assistance -- nevermind that people then tried to call social services because she was gone so often!







: But I digress...

Keep us updated -- especially on what the dr. says -- your son will be in my prayers.


----------



## AnnMarie (May 21, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by EMZ_
*Is nobody else concerned that there might be a health issue involved here and that the boy should see a dr to rule out possibility of diabetes?*
It's been said many times and I believe the OP said she was going to take her son to the doctor.


----------



## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mountain_
*Why would anyone have kids just to shuttle them off to have someone else raise them? Some teacher they don't even know? This confuses me, as I birthed my babes so they would share good values with us & spend their precious time on earth with us as a family...I just could not give up my life with them for a few extra bucks or some stupid Disney vacation.*
Could you clarify the point you're trying to make here, because it seems very offensive. I'd like to think I'm misunderstanding and that your point is not that people who work and, so, don't homeschool are selfish individuals with misplaced priorities.


----------



## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Quote:

Is nobody else concerned that there might be a health issue involved here and that the boy should see a dr to rule out possibility of diabetes?
Yeah, there's a concern.

But only if he continues the same behaviour at home - drinking without satiation of thirst.

Schools are dry, hot, humid, icky places that we shuffle our kids off to because THEY say we have to. That doesn't mean it is a good place to send them. Nor does it mean that a child who is thirsty is diabetic.

Could it be that the child is thirsty because he's hot, tired, overworked, just exercised....?


----------



## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

annmarie, yes, children can learn to budget their time. it is not impossible. i see them do it everyday...........and why does someone keep saying that teachers are public servants?

what the hell does that mean?


----------



## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by jannan_
*

Today i think i'll tell my class to bring their own water.*
To me this is exactly what teachers should do.

I can't see how bringing a water bottle is disrupting the class anytime teh child drinks from it. And allowing teh child to get a drink until the count of three or five is getting a sip of water not a drink. Can you drink water in five seconds and honestly say your no longer thirsty.
I understand the whole a few bad apples ruin the buch theory but it's cruel IMO for a child that's away from home 10 hours out of the day to only drink something three times on the "chance"that someone else's child may misbehave.


----------



## AnnMarie (May 21, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by jannan_
*annmarie, yes, children can learn to budget their time. it is not impossible. i see them do it everyday*
I don't think you really read my post. It has nothing to do with budgeting their time, it has to do with bodily functions that aren't always predictable. I would not make it in your class. I need to drink and use the bathroom more often than you would allow.

This is my typical trip to the dentist (an hour away)....I use the bathroom before I leave, as soon as I walk in the door I use their bathroom, if I don't go right in I use it again, then I use it again before I leave. Once I even had to get up in the middle of him working on my teeth to go to the bathroom. I know I'm not alone. There are others, even children, that have frequent urination. What's that have to do with budgeting their time? Nothing. Not everyone is the same, and you shouldn't expect them to be. That was the point.

Oh, and I have the same problem with needing to drink. I have to go to bed with a drink. Frequently I'll need to sip from it before I fall asleep, or if I wake up at night, because of dry mouth. I almost always carry a drink with me. So, even if I got a drink when you said it's time before group, you might be 10 minutes into it and my mouth might be so dry that I can hardly swallow...like now so I'm going to go get a drink. :LOL


----------



## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

mama_kass, I am so glad to hear you are taking your DS to the doctor. I would urge you to do it right away. Your son's dehydration could actually be caused by diabetes, or as others mentioned, the headaches could be a symptom of another problem. The reason I am taking the time to urge you to get him to the doctor right away, even though others have mentioned it already, is because I was diagnosed with type I diabetes as a young child. My parents put off taking me to the doctor because I had the flu not long before my diagnosis, and they thought I was still just recovering. When they did take me in, I was *very* sick and had to be in the hospital for a week. Diabetes can kill very quickly. It's likely nothing serious, but better to be safe. Are you going to call the doctor this week?

Also, I think you are so justified in being







over your school's policy on water and the way they are behaving. My SO is a teacher, and I am the director of a religious education school (I used to be a public health professional). In my mind, when teachers can't figure out ways to help children deal with these basic needs (and I admit it can be a hard struggle, as other teachers here have described), it is a sign of poor skill. My first step, if there was a problem like this with my staff, would be to help the teacher build the skills to make sure the children's basic needs are met (water, toileting, etc.) with minimal disruption. I'd also work with the teacher on becoming comfortable with resulting disruptions. My second step if the problem continued would be to consider reassigning the teacher to a position that did not involve charge of a class. Seriously. It is my policy that when our kids are in their classes that they are *always,* without fail, provided with non-disruptive means to get their personal needs met. I know they can't learn if their needs aren't met, and I take that very seriously.

Your child is losing learning opportunities if he is becoming sick and getting headaches in school. This is not acceptable! I admit I have a personal bias here. When I was in the 4th or 5th grade (had complete control of my bladder), I remember taking a test. I was having difficulty concentrating on the test because suddenly I had to use the toilet so badly. This came on without warning. I wouldn't have known I needed to pee before the test started. I asked and finally even begged the teacher to let me go. Each time I asked, she told me I needed to finish my test before I could go. Of course, I couldn't concentrate *at all* because I had to relieve myself so badly, so I was stuck there thinking that I would never finish the test. All the children finished their tests and went to the library for the next activity of the day. I sat there in my desk just trying to hold in my pee. I had a half dozen questions I couldn't think clearly enough to answer. Finally I just turned in the test. The teacher said, "is that all you can do?" and I told her yes. Then I walked as fast as I could to the bathroom (no running in the halls allowed of course), but I couldn't make it. Just before I reached the bathroom door, I peed my pants. It was awful! I went into the bathroom and cried and cried. Then I tried as best I could to dry my pants off. I must have smelled like pee the whole day, but nobody said anything, not even the teacher. I was so embarrassed I never told anyone about this until a couple of years ago when my SO and I talked about it.

Turns out my SO had similar experiences as a kid. She used to have major intestinal problems. The bathroom doors were always locked in the schools in her town. She had to ask permission, and often it wasn't given. Her poor tummy was always so upset, and she was afraid of soiling herself. She ended up staying "home sick" for days and days each year because she was scared to go to school and not be able to use the toilet. When she first went to college, she dropped out because she didn't have a lot of the "basics" of many of her subjects. She actually had to go back and learn what she should have learned in elementary school before she was ever able to move on to higher education. She still has a complex because of this and often assumes everyone else is "more intelligent" than she is (which is such crap because despite her academic history, she is very intelligent).

This is inhumane treatment. Not okay. Period.

And we teach.

I just asked SO about this, and we both came to the conclusion that sometimes we ask kids to wait five minutes at the most before they get a drink. That's when they don't have a water bottle with them. But that's it. Forget disruption. It's too important that kids get their basic needs met, and ultimately it minimizes disruption from kids getting sick, etc.

Oh, and my 15 year old foster son also used to be big on going to the bathroom to get out of having to be in class. We did a lot of work on that issue, but not once, *not one single time* did we tell him that he couldn't use the bathroom when he needed to.

Your son has the water bottle *with* him for goodness sakes!

I am sorry you have to deal with this crap, and I hope you get it worked out with the school soon. I too say go higher in the chain of command until you get to someone who will take your concern seriously and take action. If a teacher on my staff acted the way you are acting, I would take that very seriously.


----------



## mama_kass (Jan 11, 2003)

This is an update on what I'm doing. I have compiled information from six different sources. The information I have found is great and pertains to my situation perfectly. I've learned that this is not just my battle. There are many families that struggle with this issue. There are actually organizations that rally for water in school. They give information about why children need free access to water and how to make it happen. It is my wish to see free access to water for all the children. Not just my son.

I have written a letter to the principal which is going to be edited by my mil. I do not want to come off harsh and as if I'm making a demand. Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time getting my letter to come off the way I want. My MIL is really brilliant. She will help me.

My ds goes back to school on Thursday. I am going to send in my letter and all the information that I have found. I will let everyone know the outcome. I'm really excited. I think working with the principal is the best way to go. Atleast to start. If I get nowhere with him then I'll have to take the next step. However, I know this principal. He is very passionate for the needs of children and I do think that this information will raise some concern in his mind as well.
~~~~
Now I'm going to respond to some of your comments. I have read every single post and I thank you all. Some of you had some concerns and I want to address them.

I am a SAHM who use to home school. At any time we may change our minds and home school again depending on what is best for Paxton. Home school was wonderful. I started when Paxton was two and first grade was his first full year without homeschool. He is in the second grade. Academically he was ahead of most children, and still is.

The reason we no longer home school is because I can not provide him with all the social needs that he has. We are a one car family and live very simply. At school he has the opportunity to see and interact with the same children every day and create friendships. When I home schooled I really felt like he was lacking social interaction with children. DH and I are AP parents. We made this decision with our hearts and out of concern for Paxton's needs.

Some of you said that ten hours is too long. Not for my child! When I told Paxton about the after school program he told me to sign him up. I personally would have never asked to spend three extra hours at school. Paxton is a boy who loves to go to school. He is a very focused child who loves to be around other children. If this is what he wants to do I will support him.

The after school program is not all academic. First they have snack and social time. Then they do homework. After that they have a fun activity. Maybe art, music, putting a play together, playing a board game. Then they go outside or to the gym to play. Afterwards they get on the bus and come home. It is a long day but Paxton wants this and it has been really good for him.

Paxton is VERY independent. I like to take at least partial credit for this. I believe that this is because I have kept him so close, but let him go as he asks for it. That is what AP is about. Listening to your child's needs. He is independent because he knows I'm here.

I am going to take Paxton to the doctor. Thank you all for your concerns for him. I'll keep you all posted on his health and the outcome with the school.

Wish me luck in getting the school policy changed.


----------



## EMZ (Sep 25, 2003)

Good luck both with the principal and with the dr visit. I look forward to the update!


----------



## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

I haven't read all of the replies yet







but as a K teacher, I ask all of my parents to send in a closed water bottle that their child can keep on his/her desk. It truly is disruptive to have a class of 25 5&6 year olds line up for drinks several times/day. I let them go as they need throughout the day, but I've found the best solution is for them to have a bottle of fresh water at their desk all day.








GOOD LUCK changing the policy. It's idiotic and archaic.


----------



## Annoia (Nov 16, 2003)

My mom's a second grade teacher. She has water bottles for all the kids in her class (and she works in an overcrowded, low SES school). I'm pretty sure the school district provided them. So if this school can do it, why can't your son's? I personally think it's silly to restrict a kids access to water. But I'm gonnna ask my mom how they deal with it at her school, to get the straight scoop.

Hope you get this resolved!

Cheers,


----------



## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

I asked my kiddos (k and 3rd grader) what they did if they got thirsty in class. The Ker said they have to raise their hand and ask to go to the water fountain, but they can only go one at a time. I asked her if the teacher ever said no, and she said only if there was already someone getting a drink. The fountain and bathrooms are right outside their door.

My 3rd grader said they don't have to ask, they just have to quietly go and come right back, again with only a one at a time rule. This applies to using the bathroom or getting a drink. She said that one boy abused it (ie, he got caught running around the school while on a bathroom break), and he must ask permission and the teacher has to accompany him for two weeks. I asked if she could go as many times as she wanted, and she said sure.

So, to the OP, I am glad you are addressing this, both by getting your son checked out by the doc to make sure that there aren't any contributing factors, and by addressing it positively and productively.

My dh is a teacher, so I know just enough about school policy to probably get me in trouble. But here is my advice to you. Check with the school superintendants office and tell them you want the official policy on allowing children to get drinks, have bathroom breaks, and keep water available to them in the classroom. I suspect you will find there is no policy. Then, go to the school nurses and enlist their help. They will probably be happy to help. One would hope, anyhow.

Finally, contact some of the teachers on this forum. Ask them exactly what is done in their classrooms and schools, how problems are handled, etc. Then, approach the principal. Have information about the problems with dehydration, and the advantages of properly hydrated children; the nurses could help you with this, but here are some ideas:

dehydration leads to:

nasal irritation and more frequent nose bleeds
decrease in concentration abilities
headaches
irritability
muscle cramps and muscle irritability (leading to restless children who can't sit still )
nausea and abdominal cramps
low-grade fever
increased frequency of urinary tract infection
hunger and the urge to over eat

What would even be nicer is if the nurses wrote this and signed it. Included in the letter could be the Amercian Academy of Pediatric's recommendations of daily fluid intake (if such specific recommendations exist) and/or quotes from nursing and nutritional textbooks on appropriate fluid intake for children, as well as the dangers of even mild dehydration.

Then, give him some ideas on how to get the kids to drink more. Include what other teachers have done, and how they have handled and resolved any possible disruptions/problems caused by increasing water access. Provide age specific ideas, and also, if you are talking about gettingwater bottles, or having the kids get water bottles, you might suggest some ideas on how to procure those. I know at our school, we have kids who don't even have gloves and winter coats; there is no way their parents are going to all be able to provide water bottles. This could be something that the school PTA does. You could even get little water bottles with the school name and/or logo on them. The PTA could provide each student with one every year, with more available for purchase, for example.

If it doesn't fly with the pricipal, go to the superintendent and the school board. Then, if it still doesn't fly, get the media and the local doctors offices involved.

Good luck. I am proud of you for advocating for your son, but doing it in such a manner that is respectful to the people who work hard to teach and care for your son during the day. I think you are more likely to have good results with your efforts if you remain respectful and enthusiatic.

Keep us posted!!

Lori


----------



## mimim (Nov 2, 2003)

I would like to add another teacher's opinion. I taught at an urban private school for three years. Water bottles were allowed - no problem. Some kids brought them everyday, some brought them occasionally, others rarely. They did sometimes spill, or cause distractions in other ways, but no more than trips to the drinking fountain and everyone stayed hydrated. I currently substitute teach part time for the local public schools. I am sent to a variety of schools and many of the classes have water bottles allowed. From what you have told us, I see no reason why your son's school would be so obtuse about this issue.
Another issue is the the 'special treatment' statement that was made. Of course your son should recieve special treatment. He is an individual with unique needs, physically, mentally, and emotionally. All educators should understand this. All good teacher education programs stress modifying the learning environment for individual needs.
On another note, I realize I am sticking my nose in your buisness unasked, but 10 hours is an excrutiatingly long day for such a young child - or for anyone. If I were you, I would seriously reconsider that after school program. Maybe he could do something for an hour or two a couple of days a week instead. Sorry if I've over stepped here.


----------



## Lovebugsmommy (Nov 16, 2002)

First off i want to state that i only read the first page of this thread ... so if the issue has been resolved sorry.

i taught in public school, and i was a very "pushover" type teacher that i later learned was more classified as ap then pushover... iwould rather blah blah blah than this that and the other.

my water policy was when it was hot (90 + deg) you could get a drink whenever but only one person at the drinking fountain at a time.

after p.e. the kids could have "10" drinks (count of ten) but then they had to go to the end of the line if the wanted more. some kids got in line 4 or 5 times but some kids only had a "2" drink...

as for water on the desk well it's just a nuisance... water leaks on their work it "accidently" splashes a friend... it gets poured on their heads because they were"HOT"







: some kids have 64 oz waters some have 6 oz waters some kids have frozen waters and some kids forget theirs....so we had a no water bottle in the classroom thing... but we had a fountain in the classroom it was in the back and when things went smoothly the child would quietly walk back get a drink and return to their seats when it was bad oh it was loud slurping sighing oh i'm so hotting... mess but they all got their water...

btw the teacher in traditional public schools have water because duh their the only ones supposed to be talking... don't you know kids learn ONLY when the are talked down too:LOL


----------



## kama'aina mama (Nov 19, 2001)

I mentioned this issue recently to a friend of mine. We are at a co-op preschool together and her daughter starts kinder next year. So I asked her if we, at preschool were wasting our time when we put out the water jug every day and remind the kids that it is healthy to drink water and encourage them to get a drink on their way in from outside play.. only to send them off to "big school" and have them denied access to all of that. She told me hers tory. She used to teach in South Central LA. They had awater fountain in her classroom but she was told to limit how much the kids drank from it because the pipes contained lead.







She said, "In no way did it work for me to be telling small children, 'sure, you can drink some lead tainted water, but not enough to quench your thirst'!" So she called Sparklets and had them install a cooler in her room at her expense. Everyone laughed at her. Not only did it fail to cause the predicted disruption but in the late afternoons her class was almost always the calmest. In a few months more than half the other teachers had followed suit. They were like a half day stop for the water guy!


----------



## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

Well, I think I read all the posts here and I actually thought about this a lot yesterday and even woke up this morning thinking about this. (OK so I am weird)

My thoughts, for what they are worth..... Dehydration is a serious problem, some one else already listed the problems that can happen to the body if you do not get enough to drink, so I won't do it again. I am a nurse, I live in the desert, we see a lot of dehydration in the summers, and most of the time it is either the elderly or kids. And here school goes until the end of may and starts the middle of August... it is BLAZING hot here in August! Also it doesn't have hot or summer for people to get dehyrdated. Another bad time of year is in the winter... people aren't thinking about their thirst as much, so they don't drink enough.
I was SHOCKED by some of the comments by the teachers. I do homeschool at this time, but my DD went to PS for 2 1/2 years, and when I sent her I sent her with the belief that the teachers where there not ONLY to teach, but to also look out for the well fare of their charges. I trusted them to make sure that my daughter was doing ok. I didn't see them as babysitters, I saw them as an extension of me. How is my DD doing physically and emotionally, as well as in bookwork. They had her with them for 6-7 hours a day (depending on the grade and school). OT a little, being a nurse I try to look at all my patients as if they were either ME or someone I loved. And I try my hardest to give them the care I would want for myself or my family. I just assumed that a teacher would do the same. What I mean by that is this... look at all children as INDIVIDUALS!, and having basic human needs, some have more than others, that is what makes each of us unique!That they would treat MY CHILD as they would treat their own, or as they would want someone to treat their child. An example from my line of work is this. Someone get a hip replaced due to a fall, Dr. orders pain meds every 6-8 hours. But my Patient is elderly, has arthritis in her back ,and hands and feet, she HURTS all the time. I must advocate for her that the pain med isn't enough, we use position changes, and destraction, but in the end she may just need something more or different then what she is getting. Some nurses don't go the extra step, and get a new order, because "most people" do fine with this med given this often. BULL CRAP! People (children included!) are all different, and each has their own needs to be met. So OP's son is a person who may need MORE fluid in a day than just 16-20 oz (and for the record most people do!) but yet he is denied! NOT RIGHT! Ok back to the topic ... Ok well sort of! My dd also has a "nervous" bladder, so she feels the need to pee often, whether she actually has to go or not. I told the teachers flat out this was her deal, and I would be royally pissed if she came home in wet pants because of this "problem". She is her own person, her body isn't mine or anyone elses. How can I teacher her to trust her bodies signals if others don't respect them? I guess luckly for me, she ahd good/nice/understanding teachers, who had a very easy going toilet policy. Also they ALL sent home letters saying "PLEASE" send the kids with water bottles... and you know what??? There where NO PROBLEMS! NONE!
I think if you treat kids with respect, MOST of them will "earn it". They like having that feeling that they can be trusted to make the "right" choice.
I am really impressed with the OP. I am NOT a diplomat! I get pissed and in peoples faces when it comes to my kids.
To the OP, I hope it all goes well, with the school. I honestly can't see (this is coming from a nurse now, so I am all for people keeping well!







) the school not seeing the light. Good luck! Your a great mama standing up for your childs well fare and also that of other children!








Also I hope all goes well at the doctors office visit. It is a good thing to get you DS checked out. If for no other reason then several days of dehydration can take a while to get over! Hopefully it is nothing too serious.

H


----------



## hvl25 (Jan 28, 2003)

this is ridiculous







Both of the schools my son had attended have allowed water bottles in the classroom. Heck, I bet they sell pop in your childs school. I would write a letter to the principal and CC it to the superintendent and if that doesn't work, then I would start calling local tv stations and newspapers. Its a shame your son is so dehydrated that he is physically sick and the school wants to do nothing.


----------



## mama_kass (Jan 11, 2003)

UPDATE!
I sent in a letter to the principal along with six different resources that specifically addressed the need for free access to water in school, how to do it, and where to get more information. In my letter I stuck to the facts and pointed out why free access to water is an important health and education issue.

I waited....and waited....not too long....he responded!

He told me that he had already started to read up on this issue and that the information that I sent was very appreciated and helpful. We are having a meeting next week. He said at his next teacher's meeting he is going to bring up this issue. He is going to find a way to provide water in the classroom. He said he's going to contact some schools that have done this and talk to the principals about what they did.

I'm so excited about this! I have also thought about calling the newspaper when the new policy takes place. Maybe other parents, teachers, and principals will see how important and easy it is to provide free access to water and they will do it too.


----------



## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

That's great! Maybe call the paper now- to get the excitement going, also so they can't back out or decide it's too difficult.......

You know, something like 'wow, you'll never believe what my school is doing.....'

Congrats!


----------



## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

Yea! You should be so proud...one mama, changing the world for the better, a little bit at a time.

Thanks for the update.

Good job, Mama!!!

Lori


----------



## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by CK'sMama_
A little off topic here. I remember when I was in grade school we had the 5 second rule at the fountain whether we were still thirsty or not. And I also recall the teachers always sipping from a water bottle at their desks during silent reading time.








Disgusting! Yet another reason to homeschool.


----------



## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Way to go, mama kass!!


----------



## wende (Oct 4, 2003)

Congrats to you for keeping a cool head and going about that the proper way! I'm glad that they are taking such an important issue to heart w/o a lot of fuss and struggling. I'm so happy for you!


----------



## saturnine25 (Mar 26, 2002)

Wow, congratulations!! I've been wondering how his situation was going to turn out. Good for you!!


----------

